 Screenshot from my pi running eoan. https://share.riseup.net/#t356jLcPh014TiDGVe7M3A
 @The_LoudSpeaker ^ wxl
[00:45] <wxl> i know raman said something about initially selecting lightdm, so perhaps that created the problem
[00:45] <wxl> why the task even allows for that option is beyond me
[00:45] <wxl> unless that derives somehow from one of the more generic lxqt tasks/packages
[00:45] <wxl> that might be something good to look into
 Performance isn't terrible considering
[00:48] <wxl> early on i had lxqt running on a pi
 wierd fact I don't have a pi
[00:50] <wxl> https://lubuntu.me/lubuntu-lxqt-in-a-raspberry-pi/
[00:50] <wxl> that's on a 2
 Wow, it ran Firefox and was actually able to navigate somewhere. https://share.riseup.net/#OM9siffhXwyuFcFlLzOYcQ
 that's not "somewhere"
[01:23] <kc2bez> I know that is THE destination.
 @kc2bez [Screenshot from my pi running eoan. https://share.riseup.net/#t356jLcPh014TiDGVe …], You installed ubuntu 19.10 server preinstall image and then lubuntu-desktop?
 Mine too ran Firefox but performace was suffering a bit coz nomachine.
 I will do a reinstall today. And select sddm initially
 @The_LoudSpeaker [You installed ubuntu 19.10 server preinstall image and then lubuntu-desktop?], Yes. using the server image I then installed `lubuntu-desktop^ sddm` After a reboot I logged in like normal and had the normal desktop.
 K.
 @The_LoudSpeaker [Mine too ran Firefox but performace was suffering a bit coz nomachine.], I wouldn't recommend seriously browsing the web with the pi3 but it did work.
 @kc2bez [I wouldn't recommend seriously browsing the web with the pi3 but it did work.], Yup. Obviously.
[12:10] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T29: Native nm-tray connection editor] hmollercl (Hans P. Möller) commented on the task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T29#2531
 @teward001 this is what you saw with vpn? https://github.com/palinek/nm-tray/issues/44
 @HMollerCl [@teward001 this is what you saw with vpn? https://github.com/palinek/nm-tray/iss …], Yes.  And when the VPN has a 2FA prompt for more info or other credentials or the password is dynamic because you need to append TOTP codes to the end of the password it will not work.  Which means a LOT of workplace VPNs cant work w
 And we have to instead reenable nm-applet
 Since upstream has no time to dedicate to this problem you need to address this in release notes
 Or not default to nm-tray
 (cc @tsimonq2 wxl)
 we have nm-applet installed, it's only that it does not autostart.
 then it needs a release notes that it needs to be enabled in such cases (and documentation therein - I solved the issue on my install but i am a power user so...)
 @tsimonq2 wxl I have a working redshift-qt.deb, where should I create a repo for it? I mean, /debian amnd /data folders are needed because there are not in the source.
[17:25] <wxl> @HMollerCl so it's not buildable on Launchpad's infrastructure, i.e. in a PPA?
 I can add them in my machine build and upload to ppa
[17:26] <wxl> that's what i would suggest
 I can do that (not now because here I don't have gpg) but I was thinking something like nm-tray in which in phab the /debian folder is added
[17:27] <wxl> oh for sure.. i mean you'll need that for the ppa anyways
[17:28] <wxl> i guess another thing you could do as a quick and dirty is put it on github and offer the deb as a release
[17:28] <wxl> https://help.github.com/en/github/administering-a-repository/creating-releases
[17:28] <wxl> err
[17:28] <wxl> not that
[17:29] <wxl> oh that's it actually
[17:29] <wxl> step 7 is where you add binaries
[17:30] <wxl> or if you prefer gitlab https://docs.gitlab.com/ee/workflow/releases.html
 anyone around? I can't get create sbuild
 Specified release (focal) not known to debootstrap
 This is what I get when following the 9th step here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SimpleSbuild
 ow. It is this: … https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debootstrap/+bug/1848716
[18:16]  * wxl pats his container happily
[18:17] <wxl> since they're all in proposed, you could add proposed and install it
[18:19] <kc2bez> The_LoudSpeaker: just skip 9
[18:19] <wxl> you can't skip mk-sbuild silly
[18:20] <kc2bez> That is 10
[18:20] <wxl> err oh
[18:20] <wxl> huh nevermind
[18:20] <wxl> what a mess
[18:20] <wxl> just use a container jeez
[18:20] <kc2bez> Or that
 @teward001 [then it needs a release notes that it needs to be enabled in such cases (and doc …], wxl @tsimonq2 your thouhgts about this idea?
[18:22] <wxl> it looks like you could just do a normal gpg keygen and copy to /var/lib/sbuild/apt-keys
 add in the release note the problem with vpn and how to solve it.
[18:22] <wxl> @HMollerCl i think we should have an "advanced networking" bit in the manual
 like that idea
 @lynorian could you create that entry? I can write on it, or give a text toyou for you to standarize and upload
[18:24] <kc2bez> wxl: You could do a normal keygen but if you are just building the packages to test them you don't need them signed.You can use debuild for that.
[18:28] <The_LoudSpeaker> I am on elementary since last few days. had to reset my system coz tried to install wsl2 in windows and ended pu nuking. :D Weighing the pros and cons of enabling proposed in elementary
[18:28] <The_LoudSpeaker> I don't know even C of containers
[19:25] <The_LoudSpeaker> ubuntu provides captive portal checking. who else does the same?
 I don't think I would be the best for explaining networking as I would have to learn some for myself to explain it
[19:39] <The_LoudSpeaker> I just finished creating the sbuild. Had to create thrice cox sophos wanted to fail some downloads -_-
[19:39] <The_LoudSpeaker> But the environment doesn't retain apps that I install to it (nano). I had inverted comments from step 5 from sbuild manual. And I still get those perl warnings.
 @lynorian [I don't think I would be the best for explaining networking as I would have to l …], I can do it, that's no problem, but I prefer that you create the "index" where to put it and/or to review it for consistency
[19:40] <The_LoudSpeaker> Any help is highly appreciated.
 @lynorian I mean, should it be an appendix? Or in Preferences? System Tools?
[19:52] <kc2bez> The_LoudSpeaker: can you paste your sbuild.rc file?
[19:54] <The_LoudSpeaker> https://pastebin.com/xz0ykgza
[19:55] <The_LoudSpeaker> ^ @kc2bez:
[19:55] <kc2bez> Thanks
 heheh, i have more in mine if you want it (I run `lintian` during sbuilds)
[19:56] <The_LoudSpeaker> paste ploxx
[19:56] <The_LoudSpeaker> yours also retains apps @teward ?
 i purge the build dir, deps, and session on successful builds only
 that way i don't clutter
 but the lintian and piuparts stuff are added because I did some debian dev recently and ran those all
[19:57] <The_LoudSpeaker> I need nano in there.
[19:57] <The_LoudSpeaker> how do I get that?
[19:57] <The_LoudSpeaker> can't survive without it
 i also edit my debian build opts to use 4 cores (parallelism)
 The_LoudSpeaker: Edit the pristine tars
[19:58] <The_LoudSpeaker> what? use english or provide a custom dictionary ploxx.
 example: sudo schroot -c source:focal-amd64 -u root
[19:59] <The_LoudSpeaker> yeah I know that one.
 once in there apt install nano
 then exit
 the session will always build a new session out of the source chroot
 the 'pristine' schroot base
 so mk-sbuild it, drop into the source 'pristine' set of it, add the packages.
 then exit
 i know the not-having-nano thing
 :P
[20:01] <The_LoudSpeaker> okay thanks!
[20:01] <The_LoudSpeaker> There's also this:
[20:01] <The_LoudSpeaker> W: Failed to change to directory ‘/home/raman’: No such file or directory
[20:01] <The_LoudSpeaker> I: The directory does not exist inside the chroot.
 that's normal
 just cd /
[20:02] <The_LoudSpeaker> I will need that also na? won't I?
 nope
 not to alter the source chroot to add nano
[20:02] <The_LoudSpeaker> how do I sign with my gpg then?
[20:02] <kc2bez> debuild
 debuild -S -sa <— this handles the signing
 unless you're using sbuild to build your packages via sbuild but i haven't worked with that in an eon
 because it has been glitchy
 don't forget also
 you're in the SOURCE chroot
 you're not setting it up for a build env
[20:03] <kc2bez> Right
 i believe sbuild will launch the chroot and configure it accordingly
[20:03] <The_LoudSpeaker> I mean when I use a chroot, I have my gpg and ssh keys inside it and also everything from packaging requirements. don't i need simillar set in sbuild?
[20:03] <kc2bez> It isn't a VM
 @The_LoudSpeaker again, sbuild sets everything up
 you aren't using sbuild to make source pacakges are you?
 if you are you're insane.
 or rather
 if you're using sbuild to emulate `debuild -S` then you're... kinda going to have headaches
 but sbuild will handle automatically mounting things it needs like home, etc.
 schroot won't, sbuild will
 but you're altering the ***BASE*** chroot
 right now
[20:04] <kc2bez> You want it to be clean.
 so you don't need your /home/ dir to alter the base pristine chroot
 right
 that's why it's called the 'pristine'
 adding nano to the pristine is understandable
 but when you're DONE with that, exit out, and subsequent sbuild sessions build chroot envs as copies / sessions *based* off of the pristine
[20:05] <The_LoudSpeaker> I m not making any source packages till now. I used to make tem inside chroot as I would make then inside
[20:05] <The_LoudSpeaker> my host
 Where would the advanced networking stuff be in the manual an appendix?
 `sbuild -s` will do what you need
 The_LoudSpeaker ^
 but it won't redo your .changes, etc.
 so if you are wanting to do chrooted SOURCE builds
 use pbuilder so it gives you pdebuild, not sbuild
 sbuild is for building the binaries, not really preparing the source pacakge
[20:07] <The_LoudSpeaker> okay. noted. So now I have to set up pbuild *sigh*
 ... or do what I do
 individual LXD containers
 create, destroy as needed.
 :P
 transfer the data out via SFTP to the host for sbuild usage.
 but that's me powerusering :P
[20:09] <The_LoudSpeaker> (focal-amd64)raman@Aspire-ES1-132:/$ nano
[20:09] <The_LoudSpeaker> Unable to create directory /home/raman/.local/share/nano/: No such file or directory
[20:09] <The_LoudSpeaker> It is required for saving/loading search history or cursor positions.
[20:09] <The_LoudSpeaker> Press Enter to continue
[20:09] <The_LoudSpeaker> I guess I will go and create that user dir
 sbuild is really not designed for *you yourself* to use as a chroot though
 it's designed to be used by the `sbuild` package builder
 sounds to me like you want a fully functioning chroot.
[20:10] <The_LoudSpeaker> Lol! It hasn't met me
[20:10] <The_LoudSpeaker> :P
 @teward001 [sounds to me like you want a fully functioning chroot.], schroot
 exactly
 but *not* an sbuild schroot
 @teward001 [but *not* an sbuild schroot], You're an schroot
[20:12] <The_LoudSpeaker> I want to keep everything of the dev work inside it. even sources
[20:12] <kc2bez> Not really
[20:12] <The_LoudSpeaker> It's okay if it deletes the required deps after successful fuilds tho
 @tsimonq2 [You're an schroot], not helpful
 so if you want those special directories in it, you'll PROBABLY have to alter the base debootstrap mechanism that creates the chroot
 such as... … sudo mount -o bind /proc /var/chroot/proc … sudo mount -o bind /home /var/chroot/home
 but this is untested i'm testing it now
 (following https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BasicChroot#Setting-up_the_chroot though)
 (and not the sbuild guidelines)
[20:16] <The_LoudSpeaker> I follwed them for the chroot I have.
 yeah so in THEORY
 `sudo mount -o bind /home /var/chroot/home` will make the home directory usable in the chroot
 which is what i'm seeing here in my test
 for a focal chroot
 but it's not an sbuild chroot 😜
 and if you WANT it to persist in the sbuild chroot you'd have to change the fstab mount rules
 or rather, the schroot rules for sbuild
[20:18] <kc2bez> Or scroll down tot he Other hints, tips and tricks section here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SimpleSbuild
 yep
 here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SimpleSbuild#Mount_your_home_dir
[20:19] <The_LoudSpeaker> As I understand now, I need the packaging requirements on my host. Then I follow the packaging guide on host only just while building, instead of debuild -b --no-sign, I use sbuild ?
[20:20] <kc2bez> yes, that should work
 ^ that
 (if you want your home dir in your sbuild schroots btw, you have to alter your /etc/schroot/sbuild/fstab to have this line in it: `/home   /home   none    rw,bind         0       0`)
 (and then remake the sbuild chroots)
[20:21] <The_LoudSpeaker> Ah! I have to remake them?? I already did that 4 times today!!
[20:22] <The_LoudSpeaker> I have an idea, I will create a new dir in my host which I will bind as home for sbuild, work from there.
 well the sbuild fstab is configured for the build envs, if the envs are already built... :P
[20:23] <The_LoudSpeaker> meaning downloading, editing, cloning phab repo's etc
[20:24] <The_LoudSpeaker> yeah I will have to remake the env
[20:24] <The_LoudSpeaker> *sigh*
 no, i mean the sbuild chroots
 not your entire system and envs
 :?
 :/ *
 i.e. the stuff you mk-sbuild with if that's what you're doing.
[20:25] <The_LoudSpeaker> yeah that only,
[20:25] <The_LoudSpeaker> I did that 4 times today.
[20:26] <The_LoudSpeaker> everytime one or 2packages failed to download in that step
[20:26] <The_LoudSpeaker> thanks sophos.
 heh yeah Sophos can do evil like that
 'tis why I went with pfSense to power my business side of my network at home :
 p
 because I need DHCP-PD for v6 so :/
[20:32] <The_LoudSpeaker> Uggh! I was thinking I will sleep early today but well...
[20:34] <The_LoudSpeaker> Also sorry for spam, I direct all my queries about dev here in -devel. I think it's better than constantly pinging anyone of you.
[20:34] <kc2bez> This is the right place to discuss it.
[20:35] <The_LoudSpeaker> Thanks! :)
[20:48] <The_LoudSpeaker> Btw, it's called GOLDEN image I guess, came up after I created the new schroot.
[20:48] <The_LoudSpeaker> I got nano and also the locale right.
[20:48] <The_LoudSpeaker> sounds good so far.
[21:00] <The_LoudSpeaker> !standup
[21:01] <The_LoudSpeaker> I thought I would sleep before tis so I spammed wxl with my paste an hour ago. XD
[21:01] <lynorian> \
[21:01] <lynorian> o
[21:01] <The_LoudSpeaker> o/
[21:01] <guiverc> o/
[21:05] <The_LoudSpeaker> should I paste away?
[21:05] <lynorian> yes
[21:05] <The_LoudSpeaker> one sec.
[21:05] <The_LoudSpeaker> here it goes:
[21:06] <The_LoudSpeaker> Testing:
[21:06] <The_LoudSpeaker> * Tested lubuntu-desktop^ and slick-greeter on a Raspberry Pi 3b. Didn't go exactly as planned so another one is needed.
[21:06] <The_LoudSpeaker> In Progress
[21:06] <The_LoudSpeaker> * Creating sbuilds for focal and eoan.
[21:06] <The_LoudSpeaker> * Searching for captive portal checker on github.
[21:06] <The_LoudSpeaker> To-Do: (priority-wise)
[21:06] <The_LoudSpeaker> * Xscreensaver-theme
[21:06] <The_LoudSpeaker> * Xscreensaver dialoguebox
[21:06] <The_LoudSpeaker> * SRU grub-theme
[21:06] <The_LoudSpeaker> To-Do: (untriaged)
[21:06] <The_LoudSpeaker> * Get those Pi images for next release.
[21:06] <The_LoudSpeaker> MIsc:
[21:06] <The_LoudSpeaker> * Fighting spam on lists
[21:06] <The_LoudSpeaker> * Heading home for Diwali tomorrow. Will be afk for the next week.
[21:06] <The_LoudSpeaker> Thanks!
[21:07] <lynorian> captive portals are annoying
 Popup even when I am logged in, saying you are connected!
[21:08] <lynorian> I will paste now
[21:08] <lynorian> add +x to score
[21:08] <lynorian> add hyperlinks in libreoffice calc
[21:08] <lynorian> libreoffice cacl spcial character screenshot
[21:08] <lynorian> another spellcheck round
[21:08] <lynorian> fix warning and improper styling taht got published
[21:08] <lynorian> fixed firefox version
 But they are needed also, I don't always 2ant to open browser and go to portal and login.
[21:10] <The_LoudSpeaker> guiverc: knock knock!
[21:11] <guiverc> sorry I've done almost nothing, monitored & responded on askubu - but no real testing or checklist work in last week (one iso 20.04 iso boot only)
[21:11] <The_LoudSpeaker> you did a great job on the testing checklist
[21:11] <The_LoudSpeaker> thanks!
[21:21] <kc2bez> Oh geez it is Thursday.
[21:21] <kc2bez> o/
[21:22] <guiverc> my calendar reads friday... :)
[21:22] <kc2bez> That does sound better.
[21:22] <kc2bez> Here is my paste:
[21:22] <kc2bez> * Tested focal daily image in QEMU did a LUKS install and everything seems good so far.
[21:22] <kc2bez> * Installed `lubuntu-desktop` on Raspberry Pi 3b+ from server image. The results so far seem fairly decent. Started  from this guide https://bluesabre.org/2019/10/20/install-xubuntu-19-10-on-a-raspberry-pi-4/  (Thanks! bluesabre)
[21:22] <kc2bez> * Adapted the guide for Lubuntu. Will try to write something up in notes.lubuntu.me so we can collaborate on a doc. Might not be until this weekend at the earliest.
[21:23] <kc2bez> Still need to sort out audio over hdmi.
[21:23] <kc2bez> That is all from me.
 o\
[21:41] <The_LoudSpeaker> what does "-b" with debuild from packaging example do? I didn't find it in debuild --help
[21:56] <kc2bez> It is a binary only build. See http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/eoan/man1/debuild.1.html and follow the example.
[22:21] <The_LoudSpeaker> I was tryiny to build using sbuild but this is what I get: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/VvVkMsrHz4/
[22:23] <The_LoudSpeaker> I followed packaing guide. and instead of apt build-dep and debuild I ran sbuild -d focal-amd64
[22:34] <wxl> oh i missed everytghing yay
[22:34] <wxl> well i didn't do anything anyways. good job everyone XD
[22:36] <wxl> @The_LoudSpeaker how many times do i need to tell you to use a container? all this stuff would be EASY
[22:36] <kc2bez> I fail to believe that you didn't do anything. :P
[22:36] <wxl> well i tried to file a bug against teward but that didn't work out
[22:37] <wxl> he's broken, though
[22:38] <kc2bez> E: DEPENDANCIESUNMET
[22:39] <kc2bez> The_LoudSpeaker: try just `sbuild`
 I shut it down now.
 Almost asleep.
[22:39] <kc2bez> sleep well
 Gonna nuke it all after returning from home and get lessons from wxl on containers. XD
 Goodnight everyone.
[22:48] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rMANUALdf4d004f23ab: Add Advanced networking to outline] lynorian (Lyn Perrine) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rMANUALdf4d004f23ab


[02:55] <ypwong> JackYu, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Security
[11:56] <happyaron> ypwong: cinnamon-bluetooth也进了
[11:57] <happyaron> ypwong: utopic里齐了。
[15:35] <ypwong> nice
[15:39] <ypwong> happyaron, next will work on trusty-backports ?
[15:43] <happyaron> yup


[18:20] <project2501b> hey guys. i am reading the "getting started" page. this makes no sense, syntactically speaking:You can change the settings for where a job's output goes, and where its input comes from, with the console stanza. This should be one of output (input and output from /dev/console), owner (as output and Control-C also sent the process)
[18:20] <project2501b> as output and control-c also sent the process?
[18:21] <jhunt> project2501b: if you don't have any special requirements, just don't specify the console stanza which will discard any output from the job.
[18:22] <jhunt> project2501b: there's a new feature that will be available soon that adds 'console log' such that any output from a job can be logged to a file.
[18:22] <jhunt> project2501b: You may want to see the cookbook rather than the (dated) "Getting Started" page: http://upstart.ubuntu.com/cookbook/
[18:23] <project2501b> jhunt: cool beans, dude
[18:23] <project2501b> jhunt:  i am using upstart in a 20k core bioinformatics cluster.
[18:23] <project2501b> great way to test if the node is within required parameters :D
[18:23] <project2501b> jhunt:  but i am talking about the wording in the page
[18:24] <jhunt> project2501b: now *that* sounds like cool beans to me! :)
[18:24] <project2501b> it might be my english, but to me that sentence makes no sense
[18:24] <project2501b> "also sent the process"?
[18:24] <project2501b> you mean "are also sent to the process"?
[18:24] <jhunt> project2501b: try "man 5 init" and searching for "console". init(5) is "the bible" for Upstart.
[18:25] <project2501b> jhunt:  with a raid 6+0 over ssds, i managed to reduce the boot up time of the entire cluster from 5 hours down to 40 minutes :p
[18:26] <project2501b> jhunt:  i get it about init. i am saying that the wording on the page, might be erroneous
[18:26] <project2501b> jhunt:  and i am asking, i guess, for confirmation, if you think the wording is also wrong or not.
[18:27] <project2501b> http://upstart.ubuntu.com/getting-started.html
[18:29] <jhunt> project2501b: fixed.
[18:30] <project2501b> ok! :D
[18:30] <project2501b> beer, bacon, linux and cute german women around me. what else could i ask?
[18:30] <project2501b> thanks man :)
[18:31] <jhunt> project2501b: np. are you running Ubuntu on this cluster?
[18:31] <project2501b> no. Debian
[18:31] <jhunt> so, you're probably using a pretty old version of upstart. We're trying to rectify that atm...
[18:32] <project2501b> i do not agree with the Ubuntu philosophy nor do i agree with the philosophy of its users.
[18:32] <project2501b> neither do i think that canonical is doing a good job
[18:32] <project2501b> jhunt:  no prob, i am running wheezy
[18:33] <project2501b> but upstart is the right way out of the monolithic age, for sure.
[18:33] <project2501b> with so many cores, why not put them to use?
[18:34] <project2501b> jhunt: if i make another suggestion, you are saying at the end of the page "Events can taken arguments (passed on the emit command-line) in the form of environment variables."
[18:34] <jhunt> project2501b: of course. if you're allowed to (?), maybe you could blog about that setup?
[18:35] <project2501b> you might want to put an example there to clarify it, and leave everything else for the full guide.
[18:35] <project2501b> other than that, i think the getting started guide is quite excellent.
[18:35] <project2501b> jhunt:  love to, not allowed to.
[18:35] <project2501b> uni i work for is kinda hush hush for its resources.
[18:35] <project2501b> but you may see me in SC11
[18:36] <jhunt> project2501b: the material on upstart.ubuntu.com needs to be folded into the cookbook since this is where we are concentrating our efforts. You can download a pdf of the entire cookbook if you want to read offline.  :D
[18:36] <jhunt> That wasn't the original plan, but who knows?
[18:37] <project2501b> heh.
[18:37] <project2501b> upstart and gnu parallel. let's see if we can make a map reduce function in shell.
[18:37] <project2501b> jhunt:  thank you :)
[18:37] <jhunt> project2501b: np - any time.


[03:11] <rudollf> Hi all, tell me how to set a theme in Xubuntu???
[05:15] <dox> ...
[06:49] <Vermicelli> Howdy. Would someone spare a moment to help me with an installation hitch, to a brand new sata?
[06:51] <Vermicelli> Bios sees both the new sata and an old ide (set with the ide not even in the boot order), but the xubuntu install disk only sees the ide. On the livecd, fdisk -l matches.
[07:32] <nico__> is anyone available to help me
[07:33] <knome> !ask | nico__
[07:35] <nico__> ok, sorry! I had restarted my ubuntu system earlier and haven't been able to boot it back up since. it isn't an issue with my GRUB menu, but some sort of error in the filesystem. it doesn't say much other than pam critical error after loading for about 15minutes. would anyone know what this issue could be caused by?
[13:24] <Guest34331> why I can't use the midbutton on IBM?
[13:25] <WUGUI> ?
[15:47] <Mitch> hi
[15:47] <fl3x> ;3
[15:47] <fl3xiin> ;0
[15:57] <Guest98629> ciao a tutti sono nuovo nel mondo di ubuntu spero di capire come funziona
[15:57] <Pici> !it
[15:58] <Guest98629> mille grazie salve!!
[18:19] <aboudreault> hi, anyone tried xubuntu oneiric beta2?
[18:19] <aboudreault> should I wait the official release?
[18:21] <aboudreault> arf... I think I will install xubuntu natty.. would be safer. unless there is something very exciting in oneiric?
[18:22] <knome> aboudreault, probably safer to go with natty, and upgrade in a few days
[18:22] <aboudreault> ok
[18:23] <aboudreault> hmm, next question.. my home is currently encrypted.
[18:23] <aboudreault> I don' t want to touch to the home partition... next time I haven' t been ask for any password.
[19:25] <xubuntu722> sqlut
[20:17] <ssargennto> My sound was just working an hour ago.. I go to load up again and now no sound.. I reboot and no sound through firefox, clementine, or anything else.. any ideas what it could be?
[20:18] <ssargennto> oops.. meant to load up a game
[20:18] <Myrtti> have you checked the volume levels in something like alsamixer?
[20:20] <jay__> hi all, I have a problem where xfdesktop crashes I THINK even though it is still running, either way, when i log in i just get a blue screen, any ideas?/ any help? thanks
[20:20] <ssargennto> Myrtti: yeah i have... correct volume levels are up
[20:20] <jay__> its a fxdesktop issue
[20:23] <ElderDryas> jay__: Have you turned on GNOME Services in the Advanced tab in Sessions and startup?  That will drop a blue screen (not of death) over my desktop
[20:24] <ElderDryas> But it's a pretty blue :)
[20:30] <charlie-tca> All I get with GNOME services checked is Onboard keyboard starting at login :)
[20:31] <jay__> yes i have, but it didnt initially cause a blue screen, i killed and restarted xfdesktop and it solves it, but after i log in, its back to the bluescreen, and onscreen keyboard, im using 11.10 beta 2 if that helps
[20:31] <ElderDryas> Weel, as we all know XFCE would NEVER think of upsetting you charlie-tca :)
[20:32] <charlie-tca> These are all the same bug in GNOME services. Let me find what to file it against.
[20:32] <charlie-tca> jay__: if GNOME Services is not checked, does the desktop start correctly?
[20:33] <ElderDryas> Actually I thin I saw the Onboard Keyboard on login...before I deleted it from my system
[20:34] <jay__> with it checked i used to only get the keyboard, which i have since got rid off, everything was fine, but now for whatever reason i have to kill and restart xfdesktop, should i try unchecking and restarting now?
[20:36] <charlie-tca> please do
[20:36] <charlie-tca> let's find out if that is causing the desktop not to start.
[20:39] <charlie-tca> ElderDryas: can you open a terminal and type     apt-cache policy nautilus
[20:39] <charlie-tca> tell me if it shows anything 'installed:'
[20:39] <ElderDryas> hmmm...just checked it and relogedin and...wait for it...NO blue screen
[20:40] <ElderDryas> charlie-tca: yes and no...tried iot and Installed:  (none)
[20:40] <charlie-tca> That's good then
[20:40] <charlie-tca> ElderDryas: do you have a launchpad account already?
[20:41] <ElderDryas> yeah, but I wrong...againwas sure it was related to GNOME Services...but I was evedently
[20:41] <charlie-tca> never mind.
[20:41] <ElderDryas> yes
[20:41] <charlie-tca> Onboard is related to it, I will file a bug against it
[20:42] <charlie-tca> ElderDryas: so you get the blue background with Gnome Services unchecked?
[20:42] <charlie-tca> you got something not starting
[20:42] <ElderDryas> No, checked (or so I thought)
[20:43] <charlie-tca> probably got xfsettingsd or xfwm4 not starting
[20:43] <ElderDryas> I;m going to try a few logins with it checked...back in a few
[20:45] <charlie-tca> jay__: you still here?
[20:45] <charlie-tca> I will ask you to comment on the bug when I get it filed, please
[20:47] <jay__> hey still here, ran apt-cache and it says Installed: 1:3.2.0-0ubuntu5
[20:47] <ElderDryas> charlie-tca: Can't reproduce it now.  I tried at least 4 times the other day and it was consistent...GNOME Services check=blue screen, not checked=normal screen.  "I'm so confused" :(
[20:48] <charlie-tca> No problem.
[20:48] <charlie-tca> What about onboard?
[20:48] <charlie-tca> jay__: suspect the issue is caused by nautilus, then.
[20:49] <charlie-tca> It tries to take over the desktop, which it does manage in GNOME. In Xfce, we use xfdesktop4 to manage the desktop, but nautilus doesn't want to allow that.
[20:49] <ElderDryas> I remember seeing it right after login a couple of times, but I'm not sure as to GNOME Services or not.  I have since deleted it, you want me to re-install and try?
[20:49] <charlie-tca> nope
[20:50] <charlie-tca> I will file the bug and it will get confirmed by testing this week
[20:50] <charlie-tca> Thanks for your efforts. If it wasn't for you asking yesterday, I would not have tried GNOME Services
[20:50] <ElderDryas> charlie-tca: When I saw the pattern, I had "update-manager -d" the update, today I have used the daily image from yesterday.
[20:51] <charlie-tca> so, might have been leftover from upgrading
[20:52] <ElderDryas> could have been..I think I remeber wondering what nautilus was doing showing up in the window as it updated.
[20:52] <jay__> ok ill uninstall nautilus (why its there at ll i dont know, as its a fresh install) and ill get back
[20:55] <charlie-tca> ElderDryas: didn't you tell me onboard keeps starting even when you uncheck that thing now?
[20:55] <ElderDryas> I don't think so, but they say the memory is the second thing to go....
[20:56] <jay_> guys you rock, got rid of nautilus, and its all cool now :)
[20:56] <charlie-tca> hm, mine seems to have left me
[20:57] <charlie-tca> jay_: Great! glad we could help a little bit
[20:57] <jay_> can i ask how t got there? are there some apps that need it?
[20:58] <ElderDryas> I only saw the Onboard Keyboard the other day, I deleted it this time before turning on GNOME Services for this
[20:58] <charlie-tca> If you installed a bit back, it was installed by mistake
[20:58] <charlie-tca> during the installation
[20:58] <charlie-tca> also, a couple of times, normal oneiric updates installed nautilus for us
[20:58] <ElderDryas> gremlins
[20:59] <charlie-tca> It's been a bit of a battle to keep it out this cycle
[20:59] <charlie-tca> memory... Onboard did not appear when I unchecked GNOME services
[20:59] <jay_> fair enough, as you can guess im new xfce, jumped ship because of unity/gnome 3, and i have to say i love it so far, i wish i had installed a release or two back
[21:00] <charlie-tca> Welcome aboard
[21:00] <charlie-tca> It does take some getting used to, and the configurations are a bit different
[21:01] <jay_> just a bit, but it feels honestly better (and snappier)
[21:01] <ElderDryas> jay_: I have tried almost every (non-trivial) distro that has xfce in the upper half of Distrowatch, and keep comming back.  Xubuntu has been the standard...there are some distros that might be there in another cycle or two, but nothing to compare to it right now.
[21:02] <charlie-tca> Xubuntu has been the front runner for Xfce from the first Xubuntu release
[21:02] <jay_> i think you might be right elderryas ,one more silly question if you have time, is there a way to disable the shut down confirmation?
[21:02] <ElderDryas> yes
[21:03] <jay_> ......and? :)
[21:03] <ElderDryas> Session/Startup>General> Prompt on logout
[21:03] <ElderDryas> Had to look :)
[21:04] <jay_> mine is unchecked already though? guess its in reverse :)
[21:05] <charlie-tca> uncheck it to not be prompted on logout?
[21:05] <charlie-tca> oh, I see.
[21:06] <charlie-tca> jay_: peculiarities of Xfce, you might find you have to check it, logout, then uncheck it again to make it work
[21:07] <jay_> ha ha ok cool :)
[21:07] <jay_> charlie and elder you guys have been a massive help, thanks so much
[21:08] <well_laid_lawn> !tab
[21:09] <jay_> tab! i will remember that :)
[21:09] <well_laid_lawn> :)
[21:10] <jay_> does anyone know if the lightdm screen that is there at the minute is the final for 11.10, or is mine the only ugly one?
[21:10] <ElderDryas> dunno, I have autologin
[21:11] <charlie-tca> it's final
[21:11] <charlie-tca> what you mean, ugly? should match the desktop wallpaper
[21:12] <ElderDryas> It did, and was still ugly...greyish, IIRC
[21:12] <charlie-tca> You should see the splash screen, the lightdm screen, and the wallpaper are all the same
[21:12] <jay_> no it does match, and is really a pretty cool one at that, but the dialog is an unthemed grey box, i assumed it should/would look like ubuntus?
[21:12] <charlie-tca> ElderDryas: nvidia video?
[21:13] <ElderDryas> charlie-tca: yes, but I remember now, it was the ubuntu left-side login because of the update-manager last week
[21:13] <jay_> nope, intel onboard, the ubuntu one is fine, i thought maybe thexubuntu one was yet to update?
[21:14] <charlie-tca> oh, yeah, you got the unity image
[21:14] <charlie-tca> jay_: I don't know why it is grey then. Sounds like a video card doing it, though.
[21:15] <ElderDryas> charlie-tca:  So I took your advice, waited 'till Monday and grabbed the daily
[21:15] <charlie-tca> heh, and we just got good images a couple of hours ago. but the bugs been fixed, so you should be good
[21:16] <jay_> weird, there is a lightdm customize app floating around webupd8.org, worth a try maybe?
[21:16] <ElderDryas> charlie-tca: could have been, enabled autologin during the same boot cycle as grabbing the nvidia driver
[21:16] <charlie-tca> jay_: is it lightdm-config manager or something ?
[21:17] <ElderDryas> I'll wait till the 13th, just update my system, and burn the final image to my USB revocery stick
[21:18] <charlie-tca> As long as you run "sudo apt-get update" and "sudo apt-get dist-upgrade" you do not need to reinstall. It will be equivalent already
[21:18] <levartemit> evening guys. Small question: does the xubuntu iso also include a "live disc"?
[21:18] <jay_> yeah a lightdm config manager, lets you chamge the bacjground, and I THINK the theme too, not sure
[21:18] <charlie-tca> levartemit: yes, it is called the desktop cd
[21:18] <levartemit> great :)
[21:18] <ElderDryas> If I have to install on the 10th AND the 13th, I'll be very "unhappy" (seeing as this is a family friendly channel)
[21:19] <charlie-tca> jay_: it is approved too, will be added for Precise, the next development release
[21:19] <jay_> awesome :)
[21:19] <charlie-tca> ElderDryas: I wouldn't do that. I installed this one about Alpha1, and just keep it updated
[21:21]  * charlie-tca thinks it is good when he gets one right finally
[21:27]  * ElderDryas thought that with 10.04
[21:27] <jay_> last question, will adding compiz to autostart take care of business or are there more steps in xubuntu?
[21:29] <charlie-tca> more
[21:29] <charlie-tca> jay_: to run compiz, you have to replace xfwm4, since they are both window managers
[21:29] <charlie-tca> so, after installing compiz, you run     compiz --replace       in a terminal, which makes it take over the window manager job
[21:30] <charlie-tca> Then it should work if you save the session on logging out
[21:31] <charlie-tca> To get rid of it, you would run     xfwm4 --replace      first, to allow xfwm to manage the windows again
[21:31] <nasredim> somebody knows how to enable shutdown and reboot buttons?
[21:31] <jay_> compiz --replace, ok got it, ill make a note of the commands incase, cheers Charlie-tca
[21:32] <charlie-tca> nasredim: menu -> Settings -> Settings Manager -> Session and Startup, General tab, check Prompt on logout?
[21:33] <nasredim> charlie-tca, yep, but they didnt work
[21:33] <charlie-tca> You did reboot after checking it, right?
[21:34] <charlie-tca> it should work the second logout, not the first one after checking it
[21:34] <nasredim> charlie-tca, yes
[21:34] <charlie-tca> hm, on a network?
[21:34] <nasredim> charlie-tca, the problem is the buttons doesnt work they just logout but they dont shut down or restart
[21:35] <charlie-tca> um, using Xubuntu 11.04?
[21:35] <charlie-tca> known bug
[21:35] <charlie-tca> no fix yet
[21:35] <nasredim> charlie-tca, yes i found out that but somebody knos how to fix it?
[21:36] <charlie-tca> No, that's why there is no fix yet
[21:36] <nasredim> charlie-tca, i remember when i used to use arch there was a trick by configuring hal... but here.. i dont know
[21:37] <charlie-tca> hal is obsolete and not used
[21:37] <nasredim> charlie-tca, so what do they use?
[21:37] <charlie-tca> dbus
[21:37] <charlie-tca> dbus and udev replaced hal
[21:38] <xubuntu514> salut
[21:38] <charlie-tca> !hi | xubuntu514
[21:39] <xubuntu514> speak french ?
[21:39] <charlie-tca> No sorry. however, the french ubuntu channel can usually help with it
[21:39] <charlie-tca> !fr
[21:40] <nasredim> charlie-tca, well i have to learn how to live with this bug xD
[21:41] <charlie-tca> It gets better in Xubuntu 11.10
[21:41] <charlie-tca> which comes out Thursday
[21:42]  * ElderDryas is taking bets on how long it takes the servers to get swamped after release :)
[21:42] <charlie-tca> within minutes, usually
[21:43] <charlie-tca> and now, back to verifying my release notes and testing these final images
[21:44] <ElderDryas> Last Release as Head? Vacation time?
[21:44] <jay_> charlie-tca, just realised why its not bundled with this release, its trying to load adwaita, so is compiz bound to gnome3 now?
[21:45] <nasredim> charlie-tca, is there a way tu pgrade just xfce?
[21:45] <charlie-tca> jay_: It might be. I don't know for sure
[21:45] <charlie-tca> ElderDryas: remains to be seen what will happen yet
[21:46] <ElderDryas> No one wants the job, huh?
[21:46] <charlie-tca> nasredim: no, not without compiling it for 11.04
[21:46] <charlie-tca> ElderDryas: :)
[21:46] <nasredim> charlie-tca, so this means i have to upgrade the whole distribution¡?
[21:47] <charlie-tca> nasredim: that's the normal way to upgrade, yes
[21:47] <charlie-tca> Why is that a bad thing? it insures all the apps work together with the libraries they need
[21:47] <nasredim> charlie-tca, jajaja i lost to much time gettin the nvidia driver to work
[21:48] <charlie-tca> Might be better to stay at 11.04 then. It is supported until October 2012
[21:49] <nasredim> charlie-tca, yep actually i dont have internet connection at home...
[21:49] <nasredim> charlie-tca, yep actually i dont have internet connection at home...
[21:49] <charlie-tca> You do not have to upgrade.
[21:50] <nasredim> charlie-tca, and i just use my box to listen to music watch the walkin dead xD
[22:15] <RichardNode> Hey everyone, does anyone know if xubuntu 11.10 will ship with ubuntu on the 13th?
[22:21] <RichardNode> Well, if  nobody knows =)  I guess i'll just say i'm excited, Xubuntu feels so much better than unity
[22:22] <knome> yes, the release is on the same day
[22:26] <zus> is new xubuntu releasing on the  13th?
[22:26] <charlie-tca> yes
[22:26] <zus> hi charlie-tca  :) how ya doing
[22:27] <charlie-tca> going strong, I hope
[22:28] <zus> i have been playing with E17, i like
[22:29] <Unit193> This is called a tab fail, it can be funny ;)
[22:35] <zus> is there any last minute fixes or is it at this point waiting  2 days for release?
[22:36] <charlie-tca> remains to be seen. We have all night to break it
[22:37] <zus> lol
[22:37] <knome> Unit193, well fortunately there was no tab fail on the topic.
[22:41] <zus> is there a minimal xubuntu net-iso?
[22:41] <charlie-tca> If I say yes, you gonna know where?
[22:41] <knome> zus, the minimal cd is for all ubuntu flavors, since it doesn't install any DE by default
[22:41] <charlie-tca> If I say yes, you gonna want to know where it is, right?
[22:42] <zus> charlie-tca,  probaly not since i had to ask. :)
[22:42] <charlie-tca> I can't remember where to find it :(
[22:42] <knome> !minimal
[22:46] <Guest99973> hey guys got compiz running on 11.10 but the window decoration is awful, i realize thats because i cant use xfwm, i guessed i would have to use emerald but this doesnt exist in the repos, any ideas?
[22:49] <Guest99973> anyone? :(
[22:52] <charlie-tca> emerald is obsolete
[22:53] <Guest99973> hey charlie-tca, yes it is, what i mean is, that is the only thing i could think of to use with compiz, which is now obsolete, and cant use fxwm, so what is the thing to do?
[22:54] <charlie-tca> I don't know. I stay away from compiz
[22:54] <charlie-tca> what effect in compiz are you trying to get?
[22:54] <Guest99973> expose mainly
[22:55] <charlie-tca> What is expose?
[22:56] <charlie-tca> Is it anything you could achieve using xfwm4 and the compositor built into it?
[22:57] <Guest99973> you can pick a corner of the screen, and when you have the mouse in said corner it will show all the windows at once, a bit like the effect on a mac, its handy for lots of windows, can that be done in xfwm4?
[22:58] <charlie-tca> oh, no
[22:58] <charlie-tca> I just use the workspace switcher on the panel for that
[23:00] <Guest99973> totally true, but a bit of desktop candy is nice too :) is it possible to use gtk or metacity on xfce?
[23:00] <Guest99973> as a way to decorate the window i mean?
[23:00] <well_laid_lawn> gtk apps use gtk it has nothing to do with xfce
[23:01] <charlie-tca> yes, it should be possible.
[23:01] <Guest99973> well_laid_lawn, true i know, i mean to just decorate the window to use with compiz
[23:01] <charlie-tca> Xfce already uses gtk, that's why we have themes in both appearance and window manager
[23:01] <charlie-tca> window manager is xfwm, and appearance is GTK themes
[23:02] <Guest99973> sorry, thats what i am trying to say, can i use gtk as window manager as xfwm doesnt work with compiz
[23:03] <well_laid_lawn> Guest99973: that's window manager decorations - if you use compiz you set it up with whatever it uses, it used to be emerald
[23:03] <well_laid_lawn> !compiz
[23:07] <Guest99973> ok i think im getting somewhere, i just installed the compiz panel icon, it says that i am already using gtk window decorator, so i guess my problem is how to change the theme, as the xfwm theme changer obviously doesnt apply
[23:08] <Guest99973> its blank
[23:08] <well_laid_lawn> install some themes for it then
[23:08] <charlie-tca> It won't work with compiz
[23:09] <well_laid_lawn> I would have checked the howto...
[23:09] <Guest99973> well_laid_lawn, yes but how to select a gtk theme after i have installed one
[23:11] <well_laid_lawn> Guest99973: I don't use it try in #compiz
[23:11] <Guest99973> ok, thanks anyway
[23:12] <well_laid_lawn> np


[10:20] <mathrick_> hiya
[10:21] <mathrick_> I'm setting up a workflow for a company that hasn't used any VCS before (ew), and I need to make things simple enough to have them use it
[10:23] <mathrick_> one of the things I want to get is to have a "submit" command, which takes changes not present in the submit branch yet, and *merges* them in as a new revision, so that the submit branch, which serves as a central repo / coordination point always receives merges corresponding to logical "features", rather than just having revisions pushed from the dev branches
[10:25] <mathrick_> that's both for internal organisation purposes, as well as because they interact with an external SVN repo maintained by a customer; they want the customer to receive changes, but only in coarse "feature" chunks and not the fine-grained revisions the development actually happened in
[10:27] <mathrick_> and I want to set it up in a way which doesn't require having two different dev/ and submit/ (to perform the merges in) in addition to bzr://server/repo/central
[10:27] <mathrick_> only dev/ and bzr://server/repo/central
[10:29] <mathrick_> for that reason I'd like the "submit" tool to do something like create an internal .bzr/branch/submit if it doesn't exist yet, and then use that for merges in a transparent way
[10:29] <mathrick_> so, the question: does something comparable exist so that I could set it up with appropriate aliases and plugins, or do I need to cobble up my own plugin for that?
[11:38] <Wiz_KeeD> hey guys, what are the graphical methods in which you can view a branch evolution using ubuntu?
[11:38] <Wiz_KeeD> there were two ways and i was using one forgot what the package was called
[11:46] <Wiz_KeeD> anyone?
[13:16] <jml> what's the fastest way to get the files in the tip of a branch over https? export? branch? checkout? checkout --lightweight?
[13:25] <mathrick_> jml: I don't really understand your question. If there's no smart server, then no method is particularly faster than the others, since you still need full history to build the files
[13:25] <mathrick_> assuming you mean faster in wallclock time spent on transferring things
[13:26] <mathrick_> *in the sense of
[13:27] <jml> mathrick_: yes, faster in that sense.
[13:27] <mathrick_> then all should take roughly the same time
[13:28] <mathrick_> branch and checkout are identical, except that checkout will automatically push local changes to the parent branch, which doesn't make sense with https
[13:29] <mathrick_> I'd suggest plain branch, since that gives you most bang for the same buck. In case you need to do anything more with it, branch will have everything locally already, and the others won't
[13:56] <LeoNerd> If you do anything other than "export" then you'll have a local branch you can update later on, without needing a full pull again
[14:13] <mathrick_> with a lightweight checkout it's not really true
[14:13] <mathrick_> since it's very little more than just the working tree
[14:13] <mathrick_> well, you can update it of course
[14:13] <mathrick_> but it needs network access
[14:14] <mathrick_> but yes, it will definitely be faster than re-exporting
[14:21] <fullermd> I'm not sure about that...
[14:22] <fullermd> Especially over a dumb server.
[14:22] <mathrick_> at the very least, it can skip over files that haven't changed
[14:22] <mathrick_> bu hmm\
[14:23] <mathrick_> you're right, a dumb server probably won't see benefits of a lightweight checkout
[14:23] <fullermd> In theory maybe.  I'm not sure it works out that way in practice.
[14:23] <mathrick_> yeah
[14:23] <fullermd> Even with a smart server, I'd hesitate at lesat 6 times before even considering a light checkout over anything slower than a 2ms/1gbit pipe.
[14:24] <mathrick_> oh it's not that bad
[14:24] <mathrick_> I've used lightweight checkouts many times for things like plugins which I don't want to work on
[14:24] <mathrick_> even ones with rather extensive history
[14:28] <mathrick_> btw, any comments on my question re: "bzr submit"?
[14:29] <jelmer> mathrick_: I think I might have missed the question
[14:30] <mathrick_> oh, lemme pastebin it
[14:30] <mathrick_> http://pastebin.com/p3YAVsCv
[14:30] <mathrick_> jelmer: ^
[14:31] <mathrick_> if there is some other workflow which'd make it easy that I haven't considered, I'm of course also interested
[14:33] <jelmer> mathrick_: I don't think such a command exists at the moment.
[14:34] <mathrick_> I see
[14:34] <mathrick_> I think it'd be a worthwile addition
[14:34] <mathrick_> it seems sensible to me to use merges as a history organisation tool
[14:34] <jelmer> patches welcome? :)
[14:34] <mathrick_> writing as we speak? :)
[14:40] <jelmer> heh, OK
[18:01] <LarstiQ> jml: hmm, my guess would be export, for a one off
[20:30] <felipec> what is wrong with this? http://pastie.org/5173618
[20:30] <felipec> I get ImportError: No module named fastimport
[20:30] <felipec> but it's there
[20:42] <fullermd> You sure you're looking for the right one?  The bzr 'fastimport' plugin relies on the python 'fastimport' library.
[20:44] <felipec> yeah... just realized that
[21:01] <felipec> what is the status of the bzr <-> git compatibility?
[21:01] <felipec> I see quite a few plugins, but I hear a lot of them don't work reliably
[21:11] <fullermd> I'm not really the one to ask, since I've never used any of them.
[21:11] <fullermd> My impression is that the various fast-import solutions work fine for one-way conversions/mirrors/etc.
[21:12] <fullermd> And bzr-git does a reasonably good job with caveats for the "use bzr as a git client" sort of uses.
[21:21] <felipec> fullermd: you think fastimport is reliable?
[21:22] <fullermd> I've not heard about any major issues with it.  Which, to be sure, proves little, but...
[21:22] <fullermd> It probably won't much help you if you're trying to _work_ in both VCSen.  But for working in one and maintaining a copy in the other, I'm given to understand it does fine.
[21:23] <fullermd> (or one-time conversion of course, though that's just a degenerate case)
[21:57] <felipec> branch.iter_merge_sorted_revisions(0, -1) the same as branch.iter_merge_sorted_revisions(None, None)?
[21:58] <felipec> er: 1, -1
[22:01] <felipec> or rather: builtins._get_revision_range([0, None], ...
[22:01] <felipec> s/0/1/
[22:15] <felipec> I guess rev1 = RevisionSpec.from_string(str(tip)), RevisionSpec.from_string(None)
[23:08] <felipec> wow, the git-remote-bzr in bzr-git is in really bad shape
[23:30] <jelmer> felipec: in what way?
[23:31] <felipec> jelmer: many ways... but for starters I can't push
[23:33] <jelmer> felipec: FWIW git-remote-bzr in bzr-git is experimental
[23:34] <jelmer> felipec: how does push break?
[23:35] <felipec> jelmer: let me try again
[23:36] <felipec> jelmer: but also, it's not tracking the properly... a 'master' branch should appear in git
[23:36] <felipec> I'm writing a simple git-remote-bzr that already does that
[23:41] <jelmer> felipec: I think it already does that, at least in trunk
[23:41] <jelmer> felipec: either way, patches welcome :-)
[23:44] <felipec> jelmer: the code is too complicated and it's doing many things that are not neccessary
[23:46] <felipec> jelmer: http://pastie.org/5174396
[23:47] <felipec> also, the push seems to be fetching _all the objects_ again, which is certainly not needed
[23:47] <jelmer> felipec: ah, that's happening because you're pushing into a bound branch I think
[23:47] <felipec> jelmer: what is that?
[23:48] <felipec> jelmer: in my remote-bzr I'm able to push to the same branch just fine
[23:48] <felipec> although only once
[23:49] <jelmer> felipec: what is your remote-bzr ?
[23:53] <felipec> jelmer: http://pastie.org/5174415
[23:53] <jelmer> felipec: ah, so that's essentially the same thing as git-bzr is doing?
[23:55] <felipec> jelmer: yeah, but git-bzr doesn't use git's remote helper functionality
[23:55] <jelmer> felipec: I'm pretty sure at least one of its incarnations does
[23:57] <felipec> jelmer: you mean bzr-git?
[23:57] <jelmer> felipec: no, git-bzr
[23:57] <jelmer> (I'm involved in bzr-git/bzr-fastimport)
[23:58] <felipec> and actually I'm seeing the same issue mentioned in git-bzr-hg: AttributeError: 'BTreeBuilder' object has no attribute '_find_ancestors'
[23:58] <felipec> well, I don't see it here: https://github.com/pieter/git-bzr, or here https://github.com/termie/git-bzr-ng


[07:31] <MartijnVdS> Hm
[07:31] <MartijnVdS> I don't see much difference with "Unity 5"
[07:53] <ali1234> jane silber thinks ubuntu has open governance and this will help it compete with android on tablets
[07:53] <ali1234> if ubuntu had open governance unity wouldn't exist and competing with android wouldn't even be a goal
[07:53] <ali1234> this is the same nonsense we heard from nokia about meego
[08:06] <popey> morning
[08:11] <czajkowski> aloha
[08:14] <czajkowski> popey: you there ? :/
[08:21] <daubers> Morning
[08:21]  * daubers eats cold pizza for breakfast
[08:25] <popey> czajkowski: yes
[08:25] <daubers> So I'm down for the RAT thing, dates depending :)
[08:25]  * MartijnVdS had chocolate cake for breakfast
[08:26] <daubers> Enjoyed it last time
[08:26] <MartijnVdS> daubers: RAT thing? Ng Industries? Mr Lee's Greater Hong Kong? Snow Crash?
[08:26] <daubers> MartijnVdS: Real Ale Train
[08:26] <daubers> MartijnVdS: Steam+beer
[08:26] <MartijnVdS> Not quite cyberpunk then
[08:26] <daubers> MartijnVdS: http://www.watercressline.co.uk/Our-Services/RAT
[08:27] <MartijnVdS> daubers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_Crash#Rat_Things
[08:27] <MartijnVdS> daubers: oooh!
[08:27] <daubers> I see
[08:30] <daubers> Dude! We could have a geeknic IN ONE OF THE CODEBREAKING HUTS AT BLETCHLEY!!!!!!
[08:30] <popey> http://maps3d.svc.nokia.com/webgl/
[08:30] <MartijnVdS> popey: shiney
[08:30] <daubers> http://www.bletchleypark.org.uk/content/visit/group.rhtm "Your Group can relax and dine in the area dedicated to them for the day, either in one of the iconic Codebreaking Huts"
[08:31] <MartijnVdS> popey: I have Google's mapsgl enabled as well, but that's not quite spherical
[08:31] <MartijnVdS> popey: Wow that page is FAST
[08:31] <popey> yeah, and the detail is impressive
[08:32] <MartijnVdS> (some) images are least least 3 years old though
[08:32] <MartijnVdS> The new flats next to mine aren't finished on it :)
[08:37]  * daubers wonders if his revised house offer will be accepted or not
[08:37] <daubers> I suspect not...
[09:15] <bigcalm> Haha, nice cloak
[09:16] <gordonjcp> hahaha
[09:21] <AdvoWork> cross post, but does anyone know in ubuntu 11.10, classic, how to add items to the Panel, I no longer get an option on right click?
[09:25] <mattt> daubers: where bouts?
[09:32] <daubers> mattt: Thatcham again
[09:37] <TheOpenSourcerer> Morning everyone.
[09:42] <bigcalm> Morning
[09:42] <mattt> daubers: good luck with that!
[09:43] <bigcalm> Silly ThunderBird - using N to move to the next unread email doesn't clear the notification bar icon
[09:44] <gordonjcp> lots of things thunderbird doesn't do
[09:44] <gordonjcp> doesn't remember the state of threaded vs. unthreaded view
[09:44] <oimon> work for more than 24 hours since later versions :(
[09:45] <popey> i have it open for days
[09:45] <gordonjcp> it still has that horrible tabs thing
[09:45] <popey> i never use the tabs
[09:45] <gordonjcp> I can't find a way to get rid of them
[09:45] <popey> well, i do if i want to remember to do something, i leave a mail open in a tab
[09:45] <oimon> popey: mybe it's my profile. it literally breaks every single night since upgrading from v3
[09:45] <gordonjcp> "oh you clicked on something, I'll open some random emailsin tabs"
[09:45] <gordonjcp> it's just shit
[09:45] <popey> it doesnt do that here
[09:45] <popey> i open mails in the pane
[09:46] <popey> only get tabs if I double click mails
[09:46] <gordonjcp> it's actually a chore to use
[09:46] <TheOpenSourcerer> gordonjcp: Been using TB for years... Nothing major wrong with it IMHO. Try reporting bugs if you find any.
[09:46]  * popey doesn't observe the behaviour gordonjcp does
[09:47] <gordonjcp> TheOpenSourcerer: they may not be bugs, it appears to be designed that way
[09:47] <gordonjcp> if I'm on my desktop I just use mutt
[09:51] <gordonjcp> why did Ubuntu switch away from Evolution anyway/
[09:52] <gordonjcp> it's still crap but it's nowhere near as unpleasant to use as Thunderbird
[09:52] <AlanBell> gordonjcp: do you have the preview pane turned on? press f8 if it isn't
[09:52] <gordonjcp> AlanBell: yes, but it doesn't work properly
[09:52] <oimon> evolution used to crash multiple times per day for me even with a clean profile
[09:52] <oimon> i.e. not fit for purpose
[09:52] <gordonjcp> oimon: much the same as thunderbird then
[09:53] <MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: thunderbird is actually stable for me
[09:53] <MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: also it doesn't eat all my RAM
[09:53] <AlanBell> gordonjcp: I hardly ever double click a mail to put it in a tab
[09:53] <gordonjcp> ah, Unity eats all my ram to begin with
[09:53] <oimon> gordonjcp: i reckon if i started afresh my TB would be OK...but i've got a lot of stored config in there
[09:53] <gordonjcp> 2G of RAM, 2G of swap, both full
[09:54] <popey> 11215 alan      20   0  912m 149m  39m S    0  1.9   1:42.55 thunderbird-bin
[09:54] <popey> 11257 alan      20   0 1391m 612m  77m S    3  7.9  12:07.13 firefox
[09:54] <popey> lolfox
[10:04] <JamesTait> Happy Friday, people! :D
[10:06] <popey> YES!
[10:07] <popey> Rally ends today
[10:08]  * bigcalm sips his Darjeeling in happiness
[10:10] <MartijnVdS> \o/ Darjeeling
[10:10] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Experimenting With Email - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/01/13/experimenting-with-email/
[10:15] <oimon> unity certainly causes the weirdos to wake up. look at the comments on this blog post http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/01/12/testing-required-unity-ppa/
[10:16] <bigcalm> http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2491 # bwuhahahaha
[10:16]  * daubers puts an urgent access request into the DC
[10:16] <daubers> stupid load balancer
[10:17] <bigcalm> Going to the big smoke on Wednesday next week
[10:17] <bigcalm> Any tips for survival?
[10:18] <MartijnVdS> gas mask?
[10:19] <bigcalm> Not sure what message that would be putting across to the natives
[10:22] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: "Are you my mummy?"
[10:22] <bigcalm> Oh my. What a great episode that was
[10:23] <popey> heh
[10:23] <popey> it was a double wasnt it?
[10:24] <MartijnVdS> popey: it was
[10:24] <bigcalm> You're right, it was
[10:24] <MartijnVdS> First one with Captain Jack
[10:25]  * daubers goes to reading
[10:25] <MartijnVdS> reading or Reading
[10:26] <oimon> http://maps3d.svc.nokia.com/webgl/ fails on firefox and chrome on my machine :(
[10:27] <MartijnVdS> Works in Chrome on mine
[10:27] <MartijnVdS> oimon: which video driver do you use?
[10:28] <bigcalm> Works for me in Chromium
[10:29] <oimon> MartijnVdS: intel
[10:29] <MartijnVdS> intel here too
[10:29] <oimon> maybe i need to restart my browser
[10:29] <oimon> and run updates
[10:30] <oimon> hmm firefox 5???
[10:31] <MartijnVdS> 5? not 9 or 10?
[10:32] <oimon> thought i had a repo to update ff
[10:32] <oimon> must have been when i stopped using ff
[10:32] <oimon> which repo is the one for ff latest stable?
[10:35] <AlanBell> the main repo :)
[10:35] <oimon> in 10.04 LTS?
[10:35] <oimon> not atm
[10:37] <AlanBell> !info firefox natty
[10:38] <oimon> !info firefox lucid
[10:38] <AlanBell> !info firefox maverick
[10:39] <AlanBell> well there is the mozillateam ppa
[10:39] <AlanBell> https://launchpad.net/~mozillateam/+archive/firefox-stable
[10:40] <AlanBell> Aimed at Lucid and Maverick users who want to use a modern browser which starts faster than you can brew your morning coffee
[10:41] <oimon> ah cheers...i had a few to choose from but they didn't have v9...this one looks good
[10:42] <oimon> i wonder why i disabled it a few months ago to replace with the ubuntu mozilla seucrity one
[10:43] <MartijnVdS> do-release-upgrade disables PPAs as well
[10:44] <oimon> debating whether to upgrade to 12.04 in a few months..i've enjoyed lucid on this work pc for 2 years
[10:44] <oimon> however ubuntu one doesn't work properly and a few other issues
[10:45] <oimon> need to choose a DE by then
[10:54] <oimon> the good news is i'm on ff v9 ..the bad news is "Unfortunately, there's a WebGL compatibility problem.
[10:54] <oimon> You may want to check your system settings."
 Was looking for a job in Paris...so I aplpied for one in san francisco
[11:05] <davmor2> morning s-fox
[11:05] <s-fox> Hey davmor2 , everything good your way?
[11:06] <davmor2> s-fox: Yeah I'm good thanks
[11:06] <s-fox> Terrific.
[11:08] <davmor2> s-fox: You know that the tectonic plates moved so significantly apart that paris and San Francisco  aren't next door to each other right?
[11:09] <s-fox> Yeah, I know davmor2. France France, San France, San Francisco
[11:09]  * s-fox will stick with that logic flow ;-)
[11:11] <s-fox> I was in san francisco last year for a few days. Wonderful place :-)
[11:18] <mattt> s-fox: the weather there is spectactular
[11:18] <s-fox> It sure is something
[11:20]  * oimon has a minecraft question
[11:21] <oimon> looking for a spare PC to give my nephew to run minecraft server for his mates. is a crappy CPU, with 4GB RAM better choice than better (but still quite slow CPU) and 2GB RAM?
[11:21] <oimon> or neither?
[11:23] <popey> how many people will play on it?
[11:24] <popey> I have run a server for ~8 people on a 1.6GHz atom with 4GB RAM
[11:26] <oimon> i reckon just his school mates so ~8
[11:26] <oimon> it would be a p4 3.2ghz processor i think on the 2gb, but the 4gb box would have a sempron 1.8ghz which is afwul
[11:40] <oimon> i assume minecraft server can be run headless on a server install?
[11:40] <MartijnVdS> I think so
[11:42] <Oli> oimon: Yeah - there's a juju charm that has it running headless on Amazon EC2
[11:42] <Laney> who made it so cold?
[11:42] <DJones> oimon: I looked at running a server, the biggest issue seems to be the broadband upload speed
[11:42] <oimon> DJones: oh. even for low numbers?
[11:43] <DJones> oimon: http://canihostaminecraftserver.com/ Have a look at that
[11:43] <Oli> oimon: it's about 30KB/s (240kbps) per user.
[11:44] <oimon> hey thats useful
[11:44] <oimon> the bandwidth is more limitation than RAM
[11:45] <DJones> Seems to need a 3M upload speed to host 9 players
[11:45] <DJones> 3Mb
[11:45] <bigcalm> VM then
[11:45] <Oli> Yeah. I wish ISPs would start being a little more sensible about their upstreams. our 22:0.9 (mbps) is silly.
[11:46] <bigcalm> Wonder what the upload speed will be once we're moved to 60mb down
[11:46] <oimon> they want customers to be consumers, not producers :)
[11:46] <Oli> oimon: if you're willing to pay a little bit of money, you can just host it on Amazon. Takes about a second to start a MC server with the juju charm.
[11:46]  * MartijnVdS is waiting for 100/100
[11:46] <MartijnVdS> 500/500*
[11:46] <oimon> Oli: it's more for the lad to get his fngers dirty with linux on a home pc :)
[11:47] <AlanBell> you can host a maximum of 180 players
[11:47] <oimon> slight change of subject...http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/01/microsoft-to-prevent-linux-booting-on-arm-hardware/ "Disabling Secure boot MUST NOT be possible on ARM systems.
[11:52] <awilkins> I suppose they could justify that by claiming that ARM systems are likely to be embedded systems or phones, and that the carriers / media cartels made them do it...
[11:53] <AlanBell> ARM systems won't run XP is probably more to the point
[11:53] <awilkins> But really, that's begging for an antitrust action unless they add "MUST be able to import other signing keys into the BIOS from the UEFI interface"
[11:54] <awilkins> The chilling effect of Secure Boot is still there - by default, systems will be shipping in a state that means you have to tinker in the BIOS to get them to boot a LiveCD
[11:54] <awilkins> Which makes OSs other than Windows that much less accessible
[12:08] <directhex> can someone explain why people are shitting their pants over Win8 ARM having a locked bootloader?
[12:08] <directhex> 95% of ARM devices have locked bootloaders
[12:08] <oimon> citation needed
[12:09] <oimon> htc and asus reversed their policy
[12:09] <directhex> ever heard of "iphone" or "ipad"? they're quite popular
[12:09] <MartijnVdS> oimon: they reversed their policy, but lots of devices still have locked bootloaders
[12:10] <oimon> it's not mandated by google though
[12:10] <oimon> which MS are doing
[12:10] <MartijnVdS> oimon: also, every ARM SOC is so different from other SOCs that it needs an entirely separate kernel build
[12:10] <directhex> "reversed" their policy - unlocked bootloader cancels your warranty
[12:10] <MartijnVdS> for some strange reason they can't make it like PCs (more uniform)
[12:11] <directhex> so microsoft are essentially banning cyanogenmod on w8 tablets. it's not a freaking right.
[12:12] <popey> 12:10:00 < oimon> it's not mandated by google though
[12:12] <popey> yeah it is
[12:13] <popey> thats exactly why oems lock their bootloaders, to get the google badge of goodness
[12:14] <oimon> hmm..http://julianyap.com/2012/01/03/locked-bootloaders-in-android-devices-are-required-to-support-google-drm.html
[12:15] <MartijnVdS> Again DRM
[12:15] <MartijnVdS> Will canonical require bootloader-locking on Ubuntu tablets/TVs/etc.?
[12:15] <directhex> it's fine when google does it. when microsoft does it OMG IT'S WORSE THAN HITLER
[12:16] <popey> MartijnVdS: no idea
[12:17] <LjL> it's not fine when google does it.
[12:17] <LjL> it's not fine when anyone does it.
[12:18] <directhex> LjL, you might think that, but that's not the way anyone reacts.
[12:18] <directhex> LjL, when microsoft does it it's pure satanism. when anyone else does it, oh look kitten pics on reddit!
[12:18] <LjL> well that's your impression, mine is different
[12:18] <directhex> LjL, i'll note there's been no coverage of the windows 8 logo program requirement that x86/64 MUST have secure boot DISABLED (i.e. allow multiple oses)
[12:19] <directhex> you can't get a windows 8 sticker on your x86 hardware unless it boots non-win8 oses
[12:19] <LjL> of course, they fear antitrust on x86
[12:19] <directhex> but nobody cares about that change, because it doesn't fit the narrative
[12:20] <AlanBell> it is in the same article
[12:20] <LjL> heh
[12:20] <AlanBell> it is in the same paragraph of the certification guidelines
[12:20] <directhex> AlanBell, sure. what did oimon quote, and what did everyone else respond to?
[12:21] <directhex> and awilkins flat-out ignored it
[12:22] <AlanBell> to be accurate for the logo it must support secure boot, and secure boot must be enabled, but a physically present user must be able to disable it
[12:22] <directhex> everyone loves talking about "the chilling effects of secure boot" now. old debian cd doesn't work on uefi laptop? secure boot! every pc FOR DECADES has had hard disk first in boot order? secure boot!
[12:22] <LjL> i think you're talking nonsense now.
[12:22] <AlanBell> yeah, we should stop being inaccurate and misinformed
[12:23] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: Where's the fun in thast
[12:24] <oimon> it is however good to raise awareness of these issues while policy is being formed
[12:24] <oimon> rather than have to work around 2 years later because nobody piped up in the beginning
[12:24] <AlanBell> which is why canonical and redhat are on the uefi steering group etc.
[12:25] <awilkins> I was under the impression that to get a "Designed for Window 8" badge meant you had to have Secure Boot on by default... could you cite the document that states the opposite, directhex?
[12:25] <AlanBell> not a whole heap we can influence by chattering on IRC about it
[12:25] <directhex> know what's going to be a bigger problem? utterly broken UEFI implementations
[12:25] <directhex> mjg59 is bricking several motherboards a week by following the spec
[12:25] <AlanBell> this is true
[12:26] <MartijnVdS> How is that unexpected though
[12:26] <MartijnVdS> We've known firmware writers are shit at what they do for ages
[12:26] <awilkins> directhex, The paragraph in the article states that it must be possible to disable it, which is very welcome, but says nothign about it's default state (aprt from implying that it must be secure boot == on because it insists that it must be possible to disable it)
[12:26] <AlanBell> oh, don't make me tell you off for swearing people
[12:27] <directhex> MartijnVdS, people will blame it on secure boot. they already *are* blaming it on secure boot
[12:27] <directhex> because that's the narrative
[12:28] <awilkins> My current mobo has EFI and I confess I found it unintuitive and annoying after decades of non-GUI BIOS interfaces
[12:28] <awilkins> And it doesn't start up any faster than old BIOS, so what's the point?
[12:28] <directhex> awilkins, how big is your hard disk?
[12:29] <awilkins> directhex, 2TB
[12:29] <MartijnVdS> Biggus Diskus
[12:29] <oimon> looks like dell are out of 2TB drives...my saved quote is now invalid due to removal of 1tb and 2tb drives from the config options
[12:29] <directhex> awilkins, know why bigger drives aren't common or popular?
[12:29] <awilkins> directhex, Because old BIOS doesn't support them
[12:29] <directhex> awilkins, so there's one part of your "what's the point"
[12:30] <awilkins> directhex, But... is there a reason that old BIOS can't be changed to support them? Is it necessary to replace it wholesale with something new? (I don't know... but it's software, after all)
[12:30] <LjL> yeah a few BIOS "barriers" have been removed in the past
[12:31] <directhex> awilkins, "removed" is such a strong term
[12:31] <directhex> awilkins, BIOS assumes MBR. MBR has the 2T limit
[12:32] <AlanBell> moving forward is a good thing, EFI is a good thing, secure boot is a good feature (and potential market distorting problem)
[12:32] <directhex> awilkins, BIOS has no interest in disks with other layout tables, and isn't sophisticated enough to do better
[12:32] <awilkins> So could you make a BIOS that also does (GPT?)
[12:32] <directhex> awilkins, as far as BIOS is concerned, you're on a 16-bit 186
[12:32] <AlanBell> if you were to fix BIOS you would come up with EFI
[12:33] <directhex> or openfirmware
[12:33] <directhex> or anything that isn't BIOS
[12:33] <directhex> BIOS is 100% tied into 186
[12:33] <LjL> (what is even a 186)?
[12:34] <awilkins> Heh, I'm so totally guilty, as a software developer, of the "This isn't very good, let's completely replace it with something better" thing
[12:34] <awilkins> (although it's COMPLETELY TRUE of my current project, ahem)
[12:34] <directhex> LjL, the precursor to 286 and 386
[12:35] <LjL> The 80186 would have been a natural successor to the 8086 in personal computers. However, because its integrated hardware was incompatible with the hardware used in the original IBM PC, the 80286 was used as the successor instead in the IBM PC/AT.
[12:37] <awilkins> There's an interesting snippet I didn't know "UEFI requires the firmware and operating system to be size-matched; i.e. a 64-bit UEFI implementation can only boot a 64-bit UEFI operating system."
[12:37] <LjL> :|
[12:37] <awilkins> So will 32-bit Windows die on standard hardware with Windows 8?
[12:38] <LjL> i don't care about 32-bit Windows
[12:38] <LjL> i care about a lot of nifty little OS's that are 32-bit only :(
[12:38] <LjL> anyway maybe it's possible to chain a bootloader capable of loading 32-bit stuff?
[12:38] <awilkins> Presumably UEFI can still boot the boring-old-normal way for 32-bit OS
[12:38] <MartijnVdS> Time for a 64-bit FreeDOS
[12:39] <awilkins> Just can't SecureBoot a 32-bit OS from a 64-bit UEFI ?
[12:43] <LjL> yay, finally ia32-libs on Precise
[12:45] <davmor2> LjL: Why do you need ia32-libs precise supports multiarch better that oneiric did
[12:46] <LjL> davmor2: skype
[12:47] <davmor2> LjL: yes so from the command line you do sudo apt-get install skype:i386 and no need for ia32-libs
[12:47] <LjL> davmor2: from what repository? i got the skype package from skype.com
[12:48] <davmor2> LjL: Partners off the top of my head
[12:48] <LjL> not sure it's in Precise's partner yet
[12:48] <LjL> anyway ia32-libs depends on ia32-libs-multiarch now
[12:49] <LjL> so i'm guessing same difference
[12:50] <davmor2> oh well
[12:58] <gordonjcp> rhythmbox really isn't very good, is it?
[12:58] <directhex> rhythmbox is super awesome! so i'm told
[12:59] <gordonjcp> just about everything I've tried to play has resulted in a dialogue box popping up with some message about "Python needs additional plugins to play this content type" and a progress bar shuttling backwards and forwards
[12:59] <gordonjcp> it does this for about ten seconds, closes the dialogue box, then just sits there
[13:00] <oimon> i tried playing a dvd with vlc the other day and it kept stuttering :(
[13:01] <oimon> had to use mplayer instead but didn't know the keys since it's a gui
[13:01] <gordonjcp> well
[13:01] <gordonjcp> it can't cope with SomaFM
[13:02] <oimon> soma is AAC stream
[13:02] <oimon> have you got gstreamer plugins good, bad and ugly?
[13:03] <gordonjcp> oh, and if it can't play it, it deletes it from the list of streams
[13:03] <gordonjcp> ah
[13:03] <gordonjcp> ahem
[13:03] <gordonjcp> if it can't play a *file* it deletes the file, too
[13:04] <gordonjcp> so not only is rhythmbox not only an ineffective music player, it's actually a pretty nasty piece of malware
[13:04] <MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: wut? that sounds like a horrible bug
[13:04] <gordonjcp> yeah, I'm not sure how I triggered that
[13:05] <gordonjcp> it's not doing it now
[13:05] <gordonjcp> but it *was* doing it because it's deleted a couple of albums of MP3s
[13:07] <AlanBell> http://old.nabble.com/Rhythmbox-quietely-deletes-files-td33064922.html
[13:09] <AlanBell> in the unity launcher it shows little arrows to the left of the icon to indicate if you have several windows open, but it only does a maximum of three. I found out today that this is by design and not a bug. One, Two, Lots.
[13:10] <gordonjcp> AlanBell: ugh
[13:10] <gordonjcp> it just gets worse and worse
[13:10] <AlanBell> I can see the problem with an unending number of little arrows
[13:11] <bigcalm> A number of 2 or more would work
[13:11] <MartijnVdS> sure but why not mark the 3rd one in a special colour (for example) if it means ">3" instead of "#"
[13:11] <MartijnVdS> 3
[13:12] <AlanBell> yeah, I have 17 terminal windows open it seems, and 3 little arrows.
[13:12] <AlanBell> 17 little arrows would not be ideal
[13:13] <MartijnVdS> "But if you have >3 windows of an app you're using the computer wrong"

[13:13]  * daubers doesn't really see the problem....
[13:13] <gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: wtf
[13:14] <MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: I'm assuming here
[13:14] <gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: I usually have five or six terminal windows open at any time
[13:14] <gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: so are we to assume that Ubuntu 12.10 is going to just be capable of running one app at a time, like Mac System 6
[13:14] <awilkins> I don't either ; TBH I would be fine with 1 arrow for one and two for many
[13:14] <MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: Yes!
[13:14] <gordonjcp> since they seem to be really keen to pull in all the other misfeatures of early Mac OS
[13:14] <awilkins> You're going to have to choose anyway, the choosing part of the UI will show you how many you have
[13:15] <awilkins> You double click, and it shows you scaled thumbnails of all of that kind of app anyway
[13:15] <AlanBell> what I would like is to right click on the terminal icon in the launcher and get in the quicklist all 17 window titles to choose from
[13:16] <oimon> "But if you have >3 windows of an app you're using the computer wrong"^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Husing gimp
[13:16] <awilkins> AlanBell, That would be nice - also in GNOME 2 I always wanted it to be like Windows - each entry in the list being a proper Window menu in itself
[13:16] <awilkins> So you could right click, and then right click AGAIN on the app window to close, maximise, etc
[13:17] <awilkins> Or do operations on all of them
[13:17] <oimon> my window list is a row of dots.
[13:17] <oimon> even on a 1920 wide pixel monitor
[13:17] <gordonjcp> awilkins: in Gnome 2 by default it "stacked" window buttons in the taskbar if there was more than <some number> of them
[13:17] <gordonjcp> I *hated* that feature
[13:18] <awilkins> gordonjcp, Whereas I configured it to do it all the time, even if it was just 2 windows
[13:18] <gordonjcp> particularly since every update seemed to turn it back on
[13:18]  * daubers still doesn't see the problem
[13:18]  * daubers must be doing it wrong
[13:18] <awilkins> gordonjcp, Different strokes, I can see how some people dislike that
[13:19] <awilkins> My biggest complaint about Unity (and probably GNOME in general) is the "one size fits all" philosophy, coupled with the inability to reconfigure it
[13:19] <daubers> awilkins: That's changing
[13:19] <awilkins> The removal of all but the most simple configuration utilities from Oneiric really peeved me
[13:19] <gordonjcp> gnome and unity are both irrelevant now
[13:20] <gordonjcp> they're so far removed from what any sane person would call usable
[13:20] <gordonjcp> can you imagine trying to explain Unity to a non-technical person?
[13:20] <awilkins> My grey-haired old mum seemed to be alright
[13:20] <awilkins> I suppose she was a legal secretary for most of her career and thus actually used computers though
[13:21] <awilkins> Now I wonder what she would have made of Vim...
[13:21] <awilkins> Would probably have liked it, in the long run
[13:21] <gordonjcp> awilkins: well my mum has been using computers for quite a while now
[13:21] <daubers> gordonjcp: My mum prefers unity to old gnome
[13:21] <gordonjcp> awilkins: she wants rid of Ubuntu on her desktop because Unity is just to horrible to use
[13:21] <daubers> she found old gnome confusing
[13:22] <awilkins> So ; we've proven that you can find an anecdote to support lots of positions
[13:22] <gordonjcp> doesn't really get us anywhere, does it?
[13:23] <daubers> Canonicals user testing seemed to suggest that "average" users prefered something of the unity style
[13:23] <awilkins> The advantage of course being that this isn't Windows so we can choose the shell we like the most ; the disadvantage being that this splinters the effort directed to making each one better
[13:23] <gordonjcp> what I particularly find annoying is pulseaudio
[13:23] <gordonjcp> it's an unmitigated disaster
[13:24] <gordonjcp> I never, ever want sound to come out of the internal speaker on my PC
[13:24] <daubers> meh, I've not had any problems with pulse for ages, even had it playing stuff across networks happily recently
[13:24] <gordonjcp> I never, ever want more than one app to play sound at once
[13:24] <awilkins> gordonjcp, I would think you are in a distinct minority there
[13:24] <gordonjcp> awilkins: what, I want sound to play on my external speakers?
[13:25] <gordonjcp> if it would even let me play through the line out socket that would do
[13:25] <awilkins> gordonjcp, Only wanting one app to have sound

[13:25] <gordonjcp> *anyone* who uses a PC for playing back music?
[13:25] <awilkins> gordonjcp, Most people will e.g. want to listen to music AND be able to hear IM alerts
[13:25] <gordonjcp> right, maybe
[13:26] <gordonjcp> but it would be nice to have the option to shut all of the stupid beeps and bongs up
[13:26] <oimon> talking of beeps... http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Hs5ChcYbaNU
[13:26] <gordonjcp> also, pulse makes it damn near impossible to use jack
[13:26] <oimon> made me lol today
[13:26] <MartijnVdS> who needs jack anyway
[13:26] <gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: anyone using a computer for music
[13:26] <awilkins> gordonjcp, Do per-application mutes persist across app instances in Pulse (as configured by the sound preferences) ?
[13:26] <gordonjcp> awilkins: no idea
[13:26] <MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: I play music all the time, never needed jack
[13:26]  * awilkins tries that
[13:27] <gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: you're presumably not recording music
[13:27] <MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: I am not.
[13:27] <acperkins> in my Mandrake 7 days I remember listening to music for a couple of hours, and when it finished playing I closed the player and got 200-odd IM alert noises
[13:27] <oimon> acperkins: yeah lol
[13:27] <gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: Ubuntu used to be really popular for running music software
[13:27] <gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: now it's pretty much impossible
[13:27] <oimon> acperkins: i gather it was related to Alsa and OSS
[13:27] <MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: so fix jack/pulse to talk to each other?
[13:27] <gordonjcp> why?
[13:28] <gordonjcp> pulse takes over the soundcard
[13:28] <MartijnVdS> which is good, usually
[13:28] <gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: unless you want to use it
[13:28] <acperkins> oimon: I guess so now, both using OSS and it was just queueing the sounds. I was a newbie then and completely inexperienced, my fix was to turn of IM sounds.
[13:28] <MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: I can use it fine with pulse
[13:28] <gordonjcp>  MartijnVdS I guess you could have pulse just present as a jack source that you could then route
[13:28] <oimon> acperkins: i got it on fedora at the time too
[13:28] <MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: video conferencing too.. great with pulse!
[13:28] <awilkins> gordonjcp, Ok, so application-specific mixer levels do persist across instances - but you can only see the application in the preferences while it's playing
[13:29] <oimon> does everyone seem in a bit of bad mood today?
[13:29] <gordonjcp> awilkins: I also can't choose which sound device to play through, though
[13:29] <gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: I'm not interested in video conferencing, though
[13:29] <gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: I'm interested in sound, and pulseaudio stops me from using sound
[13:29] <awilkins> gordonjcp, I don't seem to have a major problem with that (minor problem was that it "slipped" to my HDMI device which I have nothing plugged into)
[13:29] <gordonjcp> awilkins: okay, how do you do it?
[13:30]  * brobostigon is a in a bad mood because he is ill,
[13:30] <awilkins> gordonjcp, Sound preferences, "OUtput" tab, "Choose a device for sound output:", click on a device
[13:30] <gordonjcp> awilkins: yup, I've selected my USB external codec
[13:30] <gordonjcp> it's *still* playing all sounds through the internal speaker
[13:31] <oimon> brobostigon: i'm grouchy cos i have nasty cold too. off sick for a few days but have gone back to work cos i feel bad about it
[13:31] <awilkins> Sounds like a bug, rather than a lack of feature.. I feel your pain, I had to fix a kernel bug to get the audio on my previous motherboard working properly
[13:31]  * daubers digs out his laptop and finds some music to hack along too
[13:31] <brobostigon> oimon: ah, not good, ok.
[13:31] <gordonjcp> awilkins: works perfectly in 11.10, and it works in other distros
[13:32] <oimon> i've had more viruses than a windows pc this christmas
[13:32] <gordonjcp> awilkins: the device itself is supported; something in 12.04 just isn't happy with it
[13:32] <oimon> all caught via my son
[13:32] <gordonjcp> awilkins: aplay -l even shows it up
[13:32] <gordonjcp> so it's actually *there*
[13:33] <awilkins> gordonjcp, I presume you've submitted a bug - being an alpha release still in development you might even get it fixed before April
[13:33] <brobostigon> oimon: i have had bad infection since before christmas, my eczema has had bad infection also, and it is still persisting, even after seeing my doctor twice, and various anti-biotics etc.
[13:33] <Myrtti> When is the last time you've descaled your kettle? use store bought descaler, or just vinegar. I just saw this and screamed. https://s3.amazonaws.com/wildfire_production/media_files/3193098/where_kettles_come_to_die.jpg
[13:33] <gordonjcp> awilkins: I'll try again in an hour or so with a clean install
[13:34] <Myrtti> that kettle has needed effort to turn like that
[13:34] <gordonjcp> Myrtti: I've never descaled a kettle
[13:34] <awilkins> gordonjcp, But I know where you are coming from ; I put up with a workaround of "switch the mic off and on again" for three releases until it finally broke properly in Natty
[13:34] <Myrtti> gordonjcp: I do it occasionally even in Finland where the water is usually soft
[13:34] <gordonjcp> Myrtti: strange
[13:34] <oimon> Myrtti: what's the prob with the pic?
[13:34] <gordonjcp> Myrtti: pretty much everywhere in Scotland has soft water
[13:35] <gordonjcp> Myrtti: oddly enough, apart from the south of Skye
[13:35] <gordonjcp> awilkins: unplugged and reconnected the codec, *now* it detects it
[13:35] <awilkins> gordonjcp, Which actually spurred me on to fix it, which involved patching kernels. Which I appreciate is not for everyone (and about at the limit of my skill, even for the tiny one-liner that needed fixing)
[13:36] <oimon> looks like my kettle
[13:36] <awilkins> gordonjcp, HAving a look in /var/log/kern.log and seeing what messages occur when it's plugged might be illuminating - it may well be that it just doesn't initialize properly in Pulse
[13:36] <gordonjcp> awilkins: could be
[13:36] <Myrtti> oimon: hurrrrrrr
[13:36] <gordonjcp> not Ubuntu-related, but worth a read:
[13:37] <gordonjcp> http://www.edn.com/article/520531-Toyota_accelerations_revisited_hanging_by_a_tin_whisker.php
[13:37] <oimon> scale doesn't kill you. it kills kettles, but kettles die every few years anyway
[13:37] <gordonjcp> this is why we don't use lead-free solder, mmmkay?
[13:37] <gordonjcp> 90% of my repairs these days are due to failed solder joints
[13:37] <Myrtti> oimon: I'm still using a kettle bought in 2001
[13:38] <oimon> i live in london , where the water virtually stands up by itself, but if you don't let water stand in the kettle overnight etc, generally they are ok
[13:38]  * daubers cleaned his kettle for the first time in 12 months the other day
[13:38] <daubers> brita filters ftw \o/
[13:38] <oimon> they don't recommend you put vinegar etc in kettle nowadays, dunno why
[13:38] <awilkins> I wonder if the more modern flatplate element kettles have better longevity
[13:39] <gordonjcp> make your tea taste funny
[13:39] <oimon> my kettle has a few stalacmites but it's ok
[13:40] <awilkins> If I moved back down South, I'd be using a Brita anyway
[13:40] <awilkins> I'm used to tea made from soft water now, hardwater tea is gross
[13:41] <oimon> we don't drink tea so it's only used to heat water quickly for rice/spag etc
[13:41] <awilkins> Boil vinegar and make sushi rice :-)
[13:42] <christel> i have one of those metal tumbleweed thingies in my kettle
[13:42] <christel> it claims to battle limescale
[13:43] <christel> and every now and again i descale it using that weird foamy stuff
[13:43] <christel> tho, it has yet to develop any visible limescale so i never see the difference when using it
[13:43] <shauno> I'm a traditionalist; stick to beer because I can't trust the water
[13:43] <christel> haha
[13:45] <oimon> mountain spring water runs through limestone caves...same thing innit?
[13:45] <oimon> just need a mesh to catch the floaty bits
[13:45] <oimon> is a WD or seagate 2TB drive preferred nowadays?
[13:46] <daubers> oimon: Depends what you can lay your hands on
[13:47] <oimon> both are in stock daubers
[13:47] <daubers> oimon: This for a desktop or a server?
[13:47] <oimon> desktop PC SATA
[13:47] <daubers> Ah, all desktop drivse are pants
[13:47] <oimon> it will use SSD for the OS
[13:47] <daubers> seagate are probably a bit better than WD at the moment
[13:48] <awilkins> I've been running Seagate / Samsung ones for as long as I can remember
[13:48] <oimon> the 2tb is purely for data
[13:48] <awilkins> The 2.5" samsungs fail a lot when you knock 'em about
[13:48] <oimon> i thought maxtor were assimilated by seagate.
[13:48] <oimon> maxtor suck
[13:48] <awilkins> So now I use an SSD for portable external drive
[13:49] <oimon> hey this is a 5400rpm drive...stuff that
[13:50] <awilkins> I have a 5400rpm as my main system drive now
[13:50] <awilkins> It's not noticably any slower than the 500MB 7600 rpm one it replaced
[13:50] <oimon> upon replacing the 5400 with a 7200 i noticed massive boost
[13:50] <oimon> unforutanely don't have the bootchart logs to prove
[13:51] <Laney> I heard it's mgdm's birthday today!
[13:52] <mgdm> t'is
[13:52] <awilkins> What you need is something that just streams blocks of libraries that are loaded together into big cache files - does preload do that?
[13:52] <awilkins> Ah, it does it in RAM
[13:52] <daubers> So who's finished implimenting Cake over IP?
[13:52] <awilkins> Unfortunately it only works over the local loopback adapter
[13:53]  * awilkins scronff
[14:06] <christel> raar
[14:07] <christel> er, wrong window
[14:07] <Laney> ROAR
[14:08] <daubers> meow?
[14:09] <christel> A LION AND A CAT
[14:10]  * davmor2 tiptoes up behind christel and shouts BOO!
[14:11]  * christel falls off her chair
[14:11] <christel> ow
[14:11]  * davmor2 points  out that christel is 2/3's of the way to a C.S.Lewis book I mean where there's a cat there's a witch right
[14:12] <christel> very true
[14:17] <Myrtti> christel: I prefer my steaks medium, thanks
[14:18] <christel> aww
[14:19] <oimon> is there a name for the rule that says if you add cordial to water already in the cup rather than vice versa, you need more than twice as much. even if you stir it
[14:20] <davmor2> But Myrtti all the good chefs leave it mooing on the plate still
[14:22] <directhex> oimon, 5400rpm and 5900rpm is common these days for large drives. "green" disk drives are all the rage
[14:22] <awilkins> They're quiet too
[14:24] <oimon> but slow,
[14:25] <oimon> directhex: by large, you mean 1tb 2tb?
[14:25] <oimon> i am comparing performance with my sub 1tb laptop drive ..so maybe different with large 3.5 drives as you say
[14:26] <directhex> oimon, 3.5" 5900rpm drives are fast. massive caches help.
[14:26] <oimon> good to know. why does 5900 sound like a weird number to me
[14:26] <awilkins> The drives with greater areal density get faster too, even when the spinny slows down
[14:26] <oimon> directhex: any you recommend specifically?
[14:27] <awilkins> So I dare say a 7900 TB drive is faster than a 5400 one, but I can see how a 5400 2TB drive might be faster than a 7900 1TB one
[14:28] <directhex> oimon, traditionally i've bought samsung, but they got swallowed by seagate
[14:28] <directhex> your choices nowadays are seagate, wd, or leftover drives manufactured by companies that are now seagate or wd
[14:28] <directhex> i'd avoid the wd green series, they have nasty firmware bugs
[14:29] <directhex> so seagate, i guess
[14:29] <awilkins> That headparking thing?
[14:29] <awilkins> Yeah, never like the sound of that bug
[14:30] <bigcalm> directhex: able to give a tiny bit sql server help?
[14:31] <directhex> bigcalm, i've never used that crap in my life
[14:31] <bigcalm> Or anybody else that has to dabble in such dark arts
[14:31] <bigcalm> Oh well
[14:31] <directhex> people assume i'm some kind of microsoft expert ¬_¬
[14:31] <bigcalm> directhex: you love the ms
[14:32] <CaMason> what's the safest way to adjust network settings on ubuntu server?
[14:32] <CaMason> worried about locking myself out when changing interfaces into bridged mode
[14:32] <bigcalm> network manager
[14:32] <CaMason> on ubuntu server?
[14:33] <bigcalm> Be at the machine to change things :)
[14:33] <daubers> CaMason: do it on the cli with brctl and ifconfig first, if it fails, get remote hands to reboot :)
[14:33] <davmor2> bigcalm: you can pick on alex in #wolveslug he might be able to point you in the right direction :D
[14:34] <directhex> CaMason, fortunately, changing to bridged mode is pretty safe. i just edit /etc/networking/interfaces and reboot
[14:34] <daubers> or test it with all except the port you're sshing into first, then add that port when you're happy the rest work
[14:36] <directhex> i mean, what, you just change "eth0" to "br0" in the file, and add "bridge_ports eth0" "bridge_stp off"
[14:36] <bigcalm> davmor2: maybe, I'll google a little more 1st :)
[14:37] <CaMason> ok thanks
[14:38] <oimon> if it's not a production server you could set an 'at' job to reboot in 5 minutes
[14:39] <bigcalm> davmor2: found what I needed, http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms188670.aspx
[14:39] <oimon> used to do that on cisco routers when making changes: "reload in 10"
[14:39]  * awilkins may have touched SQL Server about 8 years ago
[14:40] <davmor2> bigcalm: congrats :)
[14:40] <awilkins> bigcalm, Ooh, I remember that
[14:41] <awilkins> bigcalm, Scan Computers used to run their webshop under the "sa" account
[14:42] <awilkins> They also had terrible parameter sanitization and built SQL by catting strings
[14:42] <awilkins> They may have fixed it since then
[14:47] <gordonjcp> I can't tell if banshee is misbehaving, or if this is particularly glitchy IDM
[14:51] <MartijnVdS> glitchcore?
[14:52] <zleap> hi
[14:53] <CaMason> extras.ubuntu.com timing out for anyone else?
[14:59] <acperkins> CaMason: getting the same here
[15:01] <popey> yes
[15:02] <CaMason> :(
[15:05] <popey> mentioned to IS
[15:05] <CaMason> thanks
[15:08] <daubers> banshee in precise is a _vast_ amount more stable and performant than in Oneiric
[15:08] <gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: I think it's got more to do with having 900K free
[15:09] <MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: 640k should be enough
[15:23] <daubers> must be time for a cuppa
[15:24] <MartijnVdS> daubers: a 3d one? :)
[15:24] <daubers> also, my touch typing is rubbish compared to how it used to be a few years ago :(
[15:24] <MartijnVdS> daubers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_teapot
[15:24] <daubers> Need to get a das keyboard with no key labels on it
[15:28] <MartijnVdS> daubers: every time I read "das keyboard" I think: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=DtM7BuCuEV0#t=17s
[15:29] <daubers> i see....
[15:32] <directhex> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tD5P7RsC9TI
[15:33] <MartijnVdS> daubers: Bill Bailey!
[15:33] <MartijnVdS> hr
[15:33] <MartijnVdS> directhex:
[15:37] <jutnux> Afternoon all.
[15:51] <Myrtti> gord: someone should rerender big buck bunny to 3D :-P
[15:51] <MartijnVdS> Headache-o-rama
[15:51] <Myrtti> (if it hasn't already)
[15:57] <directhex> http://www.3dtv.com/UI/ViewMedia.aspx?MediaID=2928
[15:58] <directhex> it's also on youtube 3d
[16:07] <ikonia> directhex: can I send you a quick pm ?
[16:07] <ikonia> (please) excuse my manners there
[16:08] <directhex> ikonia, yes
[16:08]  * daubers offers around the choccy digestives
[16:08] <MartijnVdS> popey: that pronunciation guide channel is.. WEIRD
[16:11] <MartijnVdS> popey: brilliant, but WEIRD
[17:00] <bigcalm> Brighten your afternoon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1GZZTV66M8
[17:02] <Azelphur> bigcalm: I've been listening to these guys recently, they do have proper instruments though :P http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbu4jP9JPRY
[17:15] <Myrtti> gord: I'm having a slow moment, how do I actually watch the video? I need to copy it into DCIM and use the camera app?
[17:18] <knightwise> hey everyone :)
[17:19] <knightwise> hey guys
[17:46] <dewar_> hello
[17:46] <dewar_> has anyone had problems with muon crasht?
[18:30] <awilkins> Ok - deb packaging GUIs ?
[18:31] <awilkins> I've tried building deb packages before and the only time I've had success is just applying patches to existing deb sources
[18:31] <awilkins> Even if the thing offends lintian horribly, I can fix problems - I just can't seem to get it working in the first place
[18:32] <directhex> my fosdem talk is about debian packaging from scratch
[18:32] <directhex> thing about packaging guis is they're made by people who don't know how packaging works - as a result the output quality is beyond terrible
[18:33] <awilkins> Presumably, they try to create the GUI because they tried to learn and found it to be a PITA :-)
[18:33] <awilkins> Am now looking at https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/SourceBuilds/Recipes trying to see if this will help
[18:33] <awilkins> Link to your fosdem talk and I promise to try not to make broken packages
[18:34] <Myrtti> well, one thing is for certain
[18:34] <Myrtti> Brian Cox doesn't use Ubuntu
[18:34] <Myrtti> https://twitter.com/#!/giagia/status/157892188943032320
[18:34] <awilkins> Why, because he's got a million, million, million [....] million other things to do?
[18:34] <Myrtti> :-P
[18:35] <awilkins> But his wife is a total hottie though.
[18:38] <awilkins> Gah, foiled.
[18:39] <awilkins> Bazaar recipes for Launchpad need there to be a debian folder already
[18:39] <awilkins> BUT! It does seem a lot easier to patch a tree that way if there's a branch for it already there
[18:39] <awilkins> AWesomes
[18:39] <awilkins> A shame the thing I want to package isn't already packaged
[18:44]  * awilkins starts with http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/first.en.html#workflow
[18:47] <awilkins> Ok, I want to package kyoto cabinet... I could presumably do worse than copying the packaging for it's sibling tokyo cabinet
[18:47] <awilkins> But it's in multiple packages
[18:50] <jutnux> First time packaging awilkins?
[18:51] <awilkins> jutnux, Not the first time I've *tried*
[18:51] <awilkins> jutnux, I think the only success I've had is patching existing debian packages
[18:51] <jutnux> Oh right
[18:52] <awilkins> For example ; how to make multiple packages from one source ball - dividing it into libraries and utilities
[18:53] <jutnux> I must try that one day
[18:54] <awilkins> I find myself craving an Eclipse plugin to help with it...
[19:41] <directhex> awilkins: how? by specifying multiple Package: sections in debian/control, and ensuring that you have valid debian/foo.install and debian/bar.install files listing which pieces of debian/tmp/usr/lib/blabla to include in each package
[19:43] <awilkins> This blog seems to help : http://www.cs.rug.nl/~jurjen/ApprenticesNotes/ch20s06.html
[19:50] <Laney> you typically tell the build system to install in debian/tmp/... and then make .install files to move files from there into packages
[19:50] <Laney> but → #ubuntu-motu
[19:50] <dogmatic69> o/
[19:51] <dogmatic69> I got an arduino sending serial data to the pc, is there a way to catch it in terminal and redirect it to a file?
[20:22] <mattt> erro
[21:35] <gord> Myrtti, yeah and you have to name it like the other 3ds videos are named in that directory
[21:36] <Myrtti> alright, thanks for that
[21:36] <Myrtti> didn't know that
[21:38] <gord> Myrtti, if its longer than 10 minutes it won't show up either, took me forever to figure that out...
[21:39] <Myrtti> yeah I already added stuff to the script you posted
[21:49] <Bassetts> ping Daviey can you contact me ASAP please
[22:51] <czajkowski> Bassetts: email might be better
[22:51] <Bassetts> czajkowski: done, I have contacted him every way I can
[22:51] <Laney> I suspect there might be fun events taking place in Budapest
[22:51] <czajkowski> well he's been busy I'm sure with work and tis the weekend
[22:51] <czajkowski> Laney: indeed
[22:53] <Laney> czajkowski: ow do?
[22:53] <czajkowski> Laney: not bad now thanks, mum was over for the day so did a bit of walking around and eating and relaxing
[22:53] <czajkowski> Laney: hows things with you? been busy ?
[22:54] <Laney> getting back into it
[22:54] <czajkowski> did manage to report a bug yesterday that is a bit of a pita - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/915271
[22:55] <Laney> oh yes, that one
[22:55] <czajkowski> I was well impressed was me that reported it
[22:55] <czajkowski> my contributions
[22:55] <czajkowski> now I need to figure out how to report my other irritation
[22:55] <czajkowski> I'm powering off my laptop - I know I am
[22:55] <czajkowski> but when I go to power it on the next day - flat battery
[22:55] <czajkowski> it's like it resumes
[22:56] <czajkowski> rather irritating
[22:57] <Laney> that would be annoying
[22:57] <czajkowski> not sure what I file it against though
[22:57] <Laney> probably start with kernel
[22:57] <Laney> wouldn't really know how to triage that though :(
[22:58] <czajkowski> lastone i filed there has yet to be triaged
[22:58] <Laney> Bassetts: ow do? looking forward to exams?
[22:58] <czajkowski> hate logging kernel bugs
[22:59] <czajkowski> Laney: heading to FOSDEM ?
[22:59] <Laney> nah too poor for that
[22:59] <Bassetts> Laney: not great, and big no
[22:59] <Laney> 4th year = no pay
[23:00]  * Laney snuggles el Bassetts
[23:02] <czajkowski> <--- sleep
[23:02] <Laney> nn
[23:02] <czajkowski> nn