[00:12] <bobweaver> tgm4883,  I also think that this weeks blog or what ever should have something to do with the france party and how we are helping them out . Maybe they can get some pictures that would look great on the facebook and all the social channels, That is if they get pictures
[00:13] <bobweaver> I am sure that there will be
[00:33] <mhall119> bobweaver: sure, I can make that
[00:36] <bobweaver> Sweet mhall119  do you know anything about getting log bot to show up just for a couple of days  ?  s we can log all this ?
[00:58] <mhall119> we seem to have ubuntulog2
[00:58] <mhall119> bobweaver: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/11/12/%23ubuntu-tv.txt
[00:59] <mhall119> bobweaver: if we do irc meetings, though, we should use #ubuntu-meeting
[00:59] <bobweaver> mhall119,  sorry I meant in #ubuntu-tv-fr
[00:59] <mhall119> it has a nice meeting-bot to
[00:59] <mhall119> bobweaver: ah, ask the IRC council for one
[01:01] <bobweaver> yeah ideolone is helping me atm
[01:40] <bobweaver> mhall119,  I also think that that bot would be a great thing for meetings
[02:30] <dmj_nova> so the meeting will be on saturday?
[02:30] <dmj_nova> or tomorrow?
[17:40] <mhall119> bobweaver: what time is the meeting today?
[17:46] <bobweaver> Not sure I am trying to contact the france Loco guys mhall119  you can also join #ubuntu-tv-fr
[17:47] <bobweaver> it is a temp channel hat I made for communication between Ubuntu tv folks and France LOCO for there party
[17:48] <bobweaver> as of the last couple of days we have been hanging out after 1 or 2 pm are time mhall119
[17:49] <bobweaver> mhall119,  I also set up meeting for this weekend I am sure that you have seen it in mailing list though
[18:21] <bobweaver> mhall119,  dude from loco france just got a hold of me said he needs to reboot machine. But I wanted to say some of the main reasons why I think that you should talk to them. They say at there party that they get alot people. I think that if there where pictures of this then you could post on social sites. so I guess what I am trying to say is like to have you guys talk so that they can send you pictures and what
[18:21] <bobweaver>  not about it. even if they are links
[18:21] <bobweaver> mhall119,  maybe we should even put something on the social channels today about "Up and coming events " Let me know what you think
[18:23] <mhall119> bobweaver: we have http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ for upcoming loco team events


[10:24] <joanie> TheMuso: ping
[12:38] <Pendulum> http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Ubuntu-sets-out-accessibility-plans-for-12-04-1385188.html
[12:39] <AlanBell> ooh, nice
[15:43] <phillw> Hi AlanBell would you be so kind as to pop meetingology onto #sii, thanks :)
[16:09] <AlanBell> done phillw
[17:27] <phillw> AlanBell: thanks :)
[20:49] <TheMuso> joanie: yo
[20:50] <zkriesse> SUP
[21:00] <TheMuso> joanie: Ok seems like youre not around, just ask your question and I'll answer when I am around.


[13:03] <ahasenack> there is this package, python-bonsai, which has some extensive ldap dep8 tests
[13:03] <ahasenack> the setup it does has slapd logging to /var/log/slapd.log, and it did the famous chmod 777 /var/log for it to work
[13:03] <ahasenack> of course I'm changing that, but in debian slapd is not confined via apparmor, in ubuntu it is
[13:04] <ahasenack> so I'm doing this, and was wondering if you guys had another pattern for checking if a daemon is confined, and then taking some action: https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/Z4g8c36ZWM/
[13:04] <ahasenack> this has to work in debian as well (I want to keep this package a sync)
[13:05] <ahasenack> that /etc/apparmor.d/local/* profile is created by dh_apparmor
[13:05] <ahasenack> if it's not there, then this is unlikely ubuntu
[13:07] <ahasenack> I have to precreate the log file because slapd runs as openldap:openldap, and can't create files in /var/log
[13:22] <georgiag> ahasenack: aa-unconfined checks /proc/pid/attr/apparmor/current as you did, and it also falls back to /proc/pid/attr/current when apparmor/current does not exist which I think it's for the case when lsm stacking is not available in the kernel but I'm not 100% sure
[13:23] <ahasenack> ah, nice
[13:23]  * ahasenack checks aa-unconfined
[13:23] <ahasenack> that's from apparmor-utils, usually not installed by default though
[13:24] <ahasenack> I could add a dep on it, just wondering if it would be too much for the debian maintainer
[13:26] <georgiag> ahasenack: aa-unconfined lists processes using tcp/udp ports that are not confined, I'm not sure if it's what you're looking for
[13:29] <ahasenack> I just want to check if slapd is confined, because if it is, then I need to amend the profile to let it write to /var/log/slapd.log
[13:29] <ahasenack> I could assume that, if I'm on ubuntu, I should amend the profile always
[13:29] <ahasenack> but then if debian eventually adopts the apparmor profile, the test would fail
[13:30] <ahasenack> aa-unconfined looks cleaner though, I'll try that approach, see what the debian maintainer thinks
[18:42] <ahasenack> hm, aa-unconfined isn't that great. I would have to grep its output, and it will only list apps that have open ports
[18:49] <sarnold> ahasenack: there's a --paranoid switch which goes through all the pids in /proc
[18:49] <sarnold> ahasenack: but yes, it's not that great; it started out to help us prepare for a CTF event and never quite got the attention it deserved :)
[18:50] <sarnold> I suspect georgiag mentioned it more as something to steal from :D
[18:50] <ahasenack> I was expecting it to be given a process name, or pid perhaps, and return 0 or 1
[18:50] <ahasenack> given its name
[18:51] <sarnold> ah!
[19:02] <georgiag> yeah, that was my intention sarnold :)
[19:03] <sarnold> \o/


[00:56] <kklimonda> Sarvatt: maybe you should make ubuntu-desktop depend on modaliases? most people get wary when they notice it's being removed.
[03:32] <micahg> persia: ping
[04:44] <aalex> Hello. Can my package get into Lucid? I would really like it to be in the current LTS for the next 2 years.
[04:45] <aalex> It's called scenic. It's on a PPA: http://launchpad.net/~sat-metalab/+archive/metalab/+packages
[04:45] <aalex> It's a high-quality audio-video-MIDI bidirectional streaming software
[04:45] <crimsun> no, you can't. Lucid frozen over a month ago.
[04:46] <crimsun> froze *
[04:46] <aalex> Even in the Universe?
[04:46] <crimsun> yes, even.
[04:46] <crimsun> the *entire* archive.
[04:46] <micahg> aalex: if you get it in maverick, you can add get it added to -backports if it doesn't need any other new dependencies
[04:46] <aalex> Ok then. If it's on Debian testing before June 24th it should be in Maverick?
[04:47] <crimsun> unstable.
[04:47] <aalex> micahg, That's very interesting. Way to go.
[04:47] <aalex> crimsun, unstable? even easier! :)
[04:47] <micahg> aalex: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports
[04:48] <aalex> Scenic is a desktop application, so that would make sense to backport it.
[04:53] <aalex> Do I have to wait until Maverick is out before to file that bug ? :)
[04:53] <RAOF> There's also going to be a new process for “cool new apps on lucid”, but it's basically a work around for some technical problems in -backports.
[04:54] <aalex> I guess my bug should point to the package in Maverick, so I should at least wait until it's on Ubuntu's web site.
[04:55] <RAOF> Once it's in Maverick you can file the backport bug.
[04:55] <aalex> ok! thanks guys. :)
[05:00] <aalex> Can I already create a pbuilder with maverick as a $DIST? If so, I could build my package right away...
[05:00] <aalex> At least test it.
[05:00] <aalex> Well... it must be only after the 24th. I'm better to get it uploaded to Debian
[05:03] <arand> aalex: Yes maverick is available for pbuilder on lucid, at least.
[05:04] <aalex> arand, cool! :)
[05:07] <mase_wk> hey guys,  i have a git branch which contains my ./debian directory. Is there a) a way to tell lintian to ignore my .git directory as its not included in my debian/rules and b) construct the orig.tar.bz2 automagically ?
[05:11] <RAOF> aalex: And, yes, you're better off trying to get it uploaded to Debain :)
[05:12] <RAOF> mase_wk: You can build your package with git-buildpackage; this can do both.  Although you almost certainly want to also have a .orig.tar.bz2 (or .gz) somewhere public, too.
[05:12] <aalex> There is no tools such as a hg-buildpackage, eh?
[05:12] <RAOF> Actually, I think there is.
[05:13] <RAOF> But it's probably not as well developed as {svn,bzr,git}-buildpackage.
[05:15] <mase_wk> RAOF: ok i'll have a look at git-buildpackage. I don't currently have anywhere that hosts a tar.bz2 and to be honest i don't see much point considering people have access to the entire git repo ,if they want the plain source they can get any revision/ branch they want with git.
[05:15] <RAOF> mase_wk: And is every revision of your software equally useful?
[05:16] <mase_wk> in master yes, or unless i mess up, all of the tags are equally useful.
[05:17] <mase_wk> i'll build stable packages for debian but people will need git for unstable/ experimental
[05:17] <cpscotti> Hey, anyone there from the sru team? Could you check bug 480772 ? I believe the sru is ready for evaluation.
[05:19] <RAOF> It's nice to have publically accessible release tarballs, too; among other things, we have tools which inform us when there's a new release if you've got a well-defined tarball location.
[05:19] <fabrice_sp> cpscotti, a normal sponsor can check your debdiff, test the fix, and upload it to -proposed. After that, the ack from SRU team is required, but not at that point
[05:20] <fabrice_sp> I have the first steps (until upload to -proposed) in my todo list
[05:21] <cpscotti> ahh ok.. thanks fabrice_sp
[05:21] <fabrice_sp> yw ;-)
[05:21] <fabrice_sp> by the way, why the compilation flag is necessary?
[05:21] <cpscotti> (I fixed the issues you pointed.. )
[05:21] <fabrice_sp> cool: I have  more things to do before checking that
[05:22] <cpscotti> fabrice_sp: the new opencv uses c++
[05:22] <fabrice_sp> but I hope to be able to do it this morning
[05:22] <fabrice_sp> ok
[05:22] <cpscotti> fabrice_sp: so when compiling a C program that uses it.. you have two options: g++ or "gcc -x c++"
[05:22] <cpscotti> since the generated programs are indeed just C, we opted for the -x
[05:22] <fabrice_sp> ok: i knew about g++, but not about -x option
[05:23] <fabrice_sp> thanks for the explanation
[05:23] <cpscotti> I didn't know about it also.. but some guy sent it to me by mail and it felt just "right"
[05:24] <cpscotti> fabrice_sp: thanks for the evaluation and all
[05:24] <fabrice_sp> thanks to you for working on it!
[05:24] <cpscotti> have a nice day (I'm going to sleep now.. ehehe)
[05:24] <fabrice_sp> :-) Good night
[05:25] <cpscotti> thanks
[05:25] <cpscotti> bye
[05:25] <mase_wk> RAOF: k, i'll consider that in the future. I found the whole packaging process occupying more time than i really wanted to spend in order to make other peoples lives easier so for now just having a lintian approved .deb is more than adequate. I can make sure that ubuntu /debians version is kept up to date.
[05:34] <RAOF> mase_wk: What about other distributions?  That's another consideration.
[05:36] <mase_wk> RAOF: well i looked at fedora / Suse RPM's and they didn't seem much simpler so it's not something specific to debian. That is next weekends challenge. Slackware tgz's were pretty easy though =)
[05:37] <RAOF> mase_wk: I meant: making it easier for maintainers in other distributions to pick up your app is probably worth a little time, but you'll certainly be overtasked creating packages for *all* distributions.
[05:40] <mase_wk> well fedora and debian are using git now aren't they ? i assumed that by having everything in git, it would make life easier for them, i could accept patches specific to  the debian / fedora branches so they don't have to do much maintenance downstream
[05:41] <mase_wk> and ubuntu gets it's stuff directly from debian no?
[05:41] <RAOF> I'm not sure about Fedora; Debian doesn't have a (traditional) VCS at all.
[05:41] <mase_wk> oh ok
[05:41] <mase_wk> i was under the impression they were moving to git
[05:42] <RAOF> Some Debian maintainers use git, but that's entirely optional, and many use no VCS, many use svn, many use bzr, etc.
[05:43] <RAOF> We're moving to bzr, but slowly.
[05:43] <ScottK> I think Fedora/RH is still using CVS, but I'm not sure.
[05:43] <mase_wk> ScottK: pretty sure they just moved ( or will for next release) to git
[05:44] <ScottK> It wouldn't suprise me.  It's not something I particularly keep up on.
[05:44] <RAOF> I think they *are* planning to move to git, but they were in CVS last time I looked at a package.
[05:45] <mase_wk> just trying to find a way to make life easy for maintainers so they don't have to do much work, but also keep the distro specific stuff upstream so if j-random user wants to make debs/ rpms of a specific tree so that users can test something that they can do it easily enough
[05:48] <mase_wk> i mean, if we fix bugs that should be safe for the LTS releases we can push them into a branch at the time we do it, the maintainers can pull the branch and see exactly what we have changed and why
[05:48] <mase_wk> and theoretically merge with what they already have on the /debian or /fedora branch
[05:49] <RAOF> I tend to just make sure that ./configure --prefix=$HOME/.local does the right thing; that makes it trivial for motivated users to test locally, without breaking anything else.
[05:50] <mase_wk> well the software is not using autotools /make . infact i was disappointed that the debian/rules file had forced me to use make
[05:52] <RAOF> Does whatever build tool you're using have an equivalent feature?
[05:52] <mase_wk> still not sure why, there seems to be a build dep option in the config, so surely as long as the software needed to build the package is also  free software you should be able to use anything you like right?
[05:53] <mase_wk> RAOF: it's basically a clone of apache ANT in python i think
[05:54] <mase_wk> allows easy xslt translation
[05:54] <RAOF> debian/rules is (kinda) defined to be a makefile with specific targets.  It's basically just a simple build-oriented programming language.
[05:54] <mase_wk> i mean the whole make thing isn't a big deal but it meant i needed to duplicate work i'd already done
[05:56] <RAOF> Why?  Surely your build: target would just call your existing buildsystem; that's the intention.
[05:58] <mase_wk> well this maybe my lack of experience showing through, but i did try that , and i couldn't get it to give me any actual content in the package. The files don't need to be compiled, they are essentially just dynamic libraries that need to be copied from one place to another with a config file change.
[05:59] <mase_wk> i ended up having to add a whole bunch of dh_ prefixed utils in order to get it copied over
[05:59] <mase_wk> and even then i was still having trouble with getting the documentation installed.
[06:00] <mase_wk> when i have the files in front of me i'll post to the mailing list with some questions
[06:00] <ScottK> mase_wk: If you use distutils with setup.py, the whole of debian/rules only needs to be three lines.
[06:00] <mase_wk> i'm probably doing a few things wrong.
[06:01] <mase_wk> i ended up grabbing a few 'similar' applications and using lines from the rules file until it worked
[06:02] <mase_wk> ScottK: so if i use distutils can i still use git-buildpackage ?
[06:03] <ScottK> I would think so, but I don't use it, so no promises.
[06:03] <mase_wk> it's not all python. some is just xml files/xslt templates etc..
[06:04] <ScottK> You can install data files with distutils.
[06:05] <mase_wk> ok cool, i'll look into it . It seems everyone has their own way of packaging, I've spoken to a few people in here and everyone seems to recommend something different.
[06:05] <mase_wk> or are all these tools just wrappers around other tools for specific use cases ?
[06:05] <ScottK> There are many ways to do it.
[06:06] <ScottK> Python distuilts is a standard method of making Python distributions, so the Debian packaging tools understand how to use it to make a .deb (essentially).
[06:07] <ScottK> So when you use common upstream build systems in standard ways, it's generally pretty easy to make a sane package.
[06:07] <ScottK> If you use a less common build system, then you need to do more of the work yourself.
[06:08] <mase_wk> well what i'm using is common for people who use xslt alot :)
[06:08] <lifeless> all 2 of them
[06:08] <mase_wk> exactly
[06:09] <mase_wk> i has a very small use case
[06:17] <mase_wk> anyhoo thank you all for your help.
[08:15] <dholbach> good morning
[08:47] <tarzeau> good morning
[10:29] <Laney> urgh
[10:29] <Laney> anyone fancy uploading some no-change rebuilds?
[10:30] <Laney> http://orangesquash.org.uk/~laney/haskell-installability/armel.png — start at the top
[10:41] <kklimonda> Laney: lol?
[10:42] <kklimonda> Laney: is haskell really that bad at keeping stable abi (or whatever it's supposed to be keeping stable ;) )
[10:43] <Laney> they make no guarantees
[10:43] <Laney> :(
[10:44] <kklimonda> how do you generate this graph?
[10:45] <kklimonda> debtree |dot.. something creates uglier one
[10:45] <kklimonda> this one is actually readable
[10:45] <kklimonda> well, as readable as it can be
[10:47] <Laney> parsing the sources file from the archive
[11:04] <suji>  when i setup chroot for lucid in jaunty system i got this error http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/P1h34QsJ
[11:17] <siretart> hm. anyone knows what's wrong with maverick's libdirectfb-dev?
[11:32] <sebner> jdong: willing to ack a SRU?
[12:16] <om26er> patches are not applied during build process (debian/rules contain: http://pastebin.org/283067) what am I doing wrong?
[12:21] <om26er> my bad seems like I was making a mistake.. now the patch was applied.
[12:24]  * ricotz hopes sebner is talking about docky ;-)
[12:25] <sebner> heh
[12:25] <sebner> ricotz: indeed
[12:26] <ricotz> sebner, good :)
[12:33] <sebner> ricotz: I'm annoyed that you still can't place the system icons on the right freely, even though I saw a bzr commit about it once
[12:36] <ricotz> sebner, our docky icon will stay there, but if you don't like it you can turn it off in gconf
[12:37] <sebner> ricotz: nah, I mean the built-in stuff on the right like "Show Desktop", Trash etc
[12:37] <ricotz> sebner, we don't expose all setting-options to have a clean and simple preferences window
[12:38] <ricotz> sebner, ah sorry, you can file a wishlist bug, i think there isnt one yet
[12:39] <sebner> ricotz: so I was wrong? I thought I saw a bzr commit about it, that's not wishlist then :P
[12:41] <ricotz> sebner, you want to be able to put docklets on the left of the starter-window-manager
[12:41] <sebner> ricotz: not even that, just put around icons on the right side
[12:44] <ricotz> sebner, please file a bug and describe what you have in mind
[12:45] <ricotz> sebner, you want to rearrange their order with dnd?
[12:46] <sebner> ricotz: exactly, sorry for explaining it that bad
[12:47] <ricotz> sebner, this isnt possible, and there is a bug regarding this feature
[12:47] <ricotz> sebner, you can move them in docklet tab of the preferences window if you use the ppa version
[12:48] <sebner> ricotz: why isn't it possible? It's possible to configure the order in the settings, why not dnd
[12:48] <ricotz> sebner, this is a more code-design problem
[12:48] <sebner> ricotz: BUUGGGGG! :P
[12:49] <ricotz> yeah, i got it
[12:49] <sebner> ricotz: really weird though, it works on the "left" side with normal icons but not on the right side, wth is the code-design?
[12:50] <ricotz> sebner, you can move item inside a "container" but you can't move a container
[12:51] <sebner> ricotz: why don't make the right side a container itself?
[12:52] <ricotz> sebner, goto #docky
[12:52] <sebner> ricotz: right, pretty much OT
[13:44] <DeeJay1> hmm, where can I find debug symbols for /usr/lib/libexpat.so.1 ?
[13:46] <JontheEchidna> !find /usr/lib/libexpat.so.1
[13:46] <JontheEchidna> Perhaps there's a libexpat1-dbgsym package in the ddeb repo?
[13:48] <JontheEchidna> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/DebuggingProgramCrash
[13:49] <JontheEchidna> If it's not in the ddebs repo, then I'd say that you'd probably have to compile expat yourself
[13:51] <DeeJay1> ah, thanks
[13:51] <DeeJay1> looks like I'd have to compile it :/
[13:54] <geser> DeeJay1: which package version of libexpat1?
[13:56] <geser> DeeJay1: http://ddebs.ubuntu.com/pool/main/e/expat/ contains the ddebs for libexpat1
[14:03] <DeeJay1> no sparc ;)
[14:22] <jcastro> ScottK: ok so at the session the idea was to how to grow the -server channel for contributors, but we realized that the server community is too small, so splitting the channel didn't make sense
[14:22] <jcastro> ScottK: oops, wrong channel, sigh
[14:44] <bilalakhtar> My package gnome-media-player was uploaded to the universe 2 weeks ago. Now, it has been built and the binaries have cleared the new queue. The package closes a needs-packaging bug. But still it is not set to "Fix Released" When will it happen? Or will I have to set it?
[14:46] <JontheEchidna> bilalakhtar: For new packages, you will have to close the needs-packaging bug manually
[14:46] <bilalakhtar> JontheEchidna: oh
[14:47] <JontheEchidna> bilalakhtar: Since the needs-packaging bug isn't filed against a package, LP won't close the bug via the changelog file of the package, basically.
[14:47] <bilalakhtar> ok, got it,
[15:13] <ScottK> Which sort of highlights the pointlessness of needs-packaging bugs.
[15:15] <Rhonda> Hmmm, ITP bugs in the Debian BTS work. :)
[15:17] <sommer> is there a great package to use a debconf example?
[15:28] <ScottK> Rhonda: They do, but Debian works on a different scale.  Here you can pretty much look on REVU and see if the package you are interested in is there.
[15:31] <Rhonda> ScottK: here you can pretty much look on mentors and see if the package you are interested in is there?  ;)
[15:31] <Rhonda> Granted, mentors isn't as incorporated.
[15:31] <ScottK> Also DDs rarely upload their new packages to mentors for peer review.
[15:32] <Rhonda> Because any place is as good as :)
[15:33] <Rhonda> ScottK: No, we use experimental for that. ;)
[16:03] <solarion> anyone have recommendations on how to easily image a bunch (~100) of identical USB keys?
[16:03] <Rhonda> Get a huge usb hub
[16:38] <jariq> Does anyone have an idea how to make dh_fixperms work on files in /opt ???
[16:41] <azeem> jariq: why do you ship files in /opt?
[16:41] <azop> haha
[16:41] <azop> Rhonda: nice
[16:43] <jariq> azeem: I've seen that a lot of commercial software products ship files in /opt
[16:43] <azeem> that doesn't make it right
[16:43] <azop> azeem: but Google does it(!*@ :P
[16:46] <jariq> azeem: lintian also complains about files in /opt so you are most likely right
[16:47] <azeem> heh
[16:47] <azeem> jariq: I assumed you knew what you are doing and was trying to troll your usage of /opt
[16:47] <jariq> but does that mean debhelper and dh_fixperms cannot be used for creation of such package?
[16:48] <azeem> well, you'll have to fixup /opt yourself I guess
[16:48] <azeem> proper Debian packages are not allowed to ship stuff in /opt (except maybe for empty directories)
[16:49] <ScottK> The point of /opt is exactly for commerical stuff.
[16:49] <sommer> is there a way to determine package name in postinst?
[16:49] <azeem> ScottK: where commercial == too crappy to be submitted to policy
[16:50] <ScottK> For stuff you have to ship binary only, keeping vendor based namespace separation in /opt is not an unreasonable thing to do.
[16:51] <jariq> ScottK: that is exactly what I am trying to achieve
[16:51] <azeem> I still don't see the point, I think /opt should be left for manually installed stuff (or crappy installers)
[16:51] <azeem> but anyway
[16:51] <ScottK> jariq: If you want examples, look in Canonical's parter repository.
[16:51] <jariq> and I wanted to use debhelper the same way as I am using it for creation of my packages in universe
[16:53] <jariq> so I'll have to fix permissions manually.. crap :(
[17:00] <jariq> Is there any other easy way (other than dh_fixperms) for setting permissions? Something similar to *.install files..
[17:01] <azeem> chmod
[17:06] <jariq> azeem: i wanted to avoid calling chmod and chown directly but it seems to be the only way
[17:07] <azeem> maybe you can convince Canonical to patch some "Canonical Partner" mode into debhelper, which supports /opt ;)
[17:08] <virtuald> why not /vendor or /service while you're at it :p
[17:14] <jariq> thx for advice :) i will look closer at the terms and benefits of partnership
[17:16] <ari-tczew> can we sync new package manually if it will fix FTBFS for other packages?
[17:17] <ScottK> ari-tczew: There's no rush.  Just file the sync bug.
[17:25] <blueyed> andreserl: re etckeeper package: you have changed the version in the etckeeper spec file to match the ubuntu version. Can't this get automated? is the .spec file required after all - except to have the complete source in the source package?
[17:26] <micahg> blueyed: miro moving to webkit \o/
[17:27] <blueyed> micahg: nice. everybody finally follows konqueror ;)
[17:27] <andreserl> blueyed, huh?
[17:28] <blueyed> andreserl: /me talking about your merge 0.41ubuntu1 (etckeeper)
[17:28] <micahg> blueyed: one less thing to port fwd every/every other cycle :)
[17:29] <RoAkSoAx> blueyed: oh i see. IDK if this can get automated actually. Let me check first
[17:31] <RoAkSoAx> blueyed: Ok I now remember. I just updated the version since it already had an Ubuntu version. I just updated it to match the current at the time
[17:32] <blueyed> oh, I see. Do you see a way to change it automatically (for Ubuntu)?
[17:33] <blueyed> the Makefile handles it already.
[17:34] <RoAkSoAx> blueyed: IDK actually fi there's a way to do it automatically
[17:34] <blueyed> "make etckeeper.spec" should do it, though still needs manual invocation.
[17:34] <blueyed> ok, thx.
[18:35] <sommer> so I have a source package with multiple packages... is there a way to have one postinst that will adjust paths based on package?
[18:37] <sommer> if not is there a "lib" or some such file where I can place shared postinst code
[19:00] <ScottK> sommer: What specifically are you trying to install?
[19:00] <ScottK> install/accomplish
[19:01] <sommer> ScottK: creating an openldap-dit-core, openldap-dit-usersandgroups package... they have basically the same postinst and I was looking for a way of not creating openldap-dit-core.postinst, openldap-dit-usersandgroups.postinst, etgc
[19:02] <ScottK> sommer: The common way to do this is create a common core postinst and then a postinst.in for each binary and generate them at build time.
[19:02] <ScottK> clamav does this and I'm sure others do to.
[19:03] <sommer> ScottK: ah, I'll take a look at that.  thanks
[19:21] <ari-tczew> geser, persia: what about approve me to universe-contributors?
[19:37] <Riddell> fabrice_sp: ping
[19:38] <Riddell> fabrice_sp: you say "No need to " on lastfm on MoM, what's that about?
[19:38] <Riddell> (and how do comments get added anyway?)
[19:39] <kklimonda> Riddell: you can just click on a comment row and type a comment in, then press enter
[21:13] <Rhonda> azop: nice what? :)
[21:14] <fabrice_sp> Riddell, this is an old comments  (from Karmic or Lucid cycle)
[21:21] <fabrice_sp> I've deleted it
[21:21] <BlackZ> fabrice_sp: fixed the patch for librack-ruby, could you take a look?
[21:27] <fabrice_sp> bug number ?
[21:27] <fabrice_sp> (I'm too tired to look after it right now, but will check tomorrow morning)
[21:28] <fabrice_sp> bye
[21:31] <BlackZ> fabrice_sp: #533799
[23:43] <zimio> I have problems....
[23:43] <zimio> making a package


[11:10] <lotuspsychje> i've noticed a weird glitch on gnomes systemsetting toggling enable/disable 'dock always hide' makes the settings window glitch, for those who want/can test it
[11:52] <KBar> +1
[11:54] <KBar> noticed something similar. tooltips are also glitchy
[14:18] <lotuspsychje> tnx KBar i need to check something out first, then ill file a bug about it, tnx for testing
[15:54] <lotuspsychje> KBar: bug #1949845 feel free to affect on LP
[15:55] <lotuspsychje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center/+bug/1949845
[16:18] <KBar> awesome! gonna try to reproduce it tomorrow cause its very late here
[16:18] <KBar> will try to add a screencast. thank you!
[16:24] <lotuspsychje> +1 KBar


[02:53] <andresmujica> have anyone noticed that the loadavg is 0.00 0.00 0.00 in Karmic all the time??
[03:54] <Sarvatt> load average: 0.37, 0.16, 0.14
[04:07] <andresmujica> uptime
[04:07] <andresmujica>  22:07:08 up  1:06,  5 users,  load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
[04:07] <andresmujica> after an hour...  karmic latest kernel... :/
[04:08] <Sarvatt>  23:08:36 up 23:14,  2 users,  load average: 0.05, 0.02, 0.05
[04:08] <Sarvatt> weird
[04:10] <andresmujica> yup
[04:19] <andresmujica> testing with daily mainline..
[05:24] <mcasadevall> apw, SPARC configuration patches sent to the mailing list
[10:59] <cjwatson> hmm, I see that loadavg 0 thing too, despite the system manifestly not being idle
[10:59] <cjwatson> indeed if I run 'yes' in a terminal it stays pegged at 0 but top shows the terminal process at 97%
[13:19] <Kano> hi apw
[13:19] <Kano> can someboy tell me why kdesu does not work with 2.6.31? It works with 2.6.30
[13:23] <apw> Kano, not see that one
[13:23] <apw> cjwatson, hrm ... i have that.  cannot be good for fairness in scheduling ... bugger ... is there a bug?
[13:24] <Kano> it can not connect to su
[13:24] <Kano> well u does not use su by default, but thats the problem which occours with kde 3.5
[13:25] <Kano> just did a testinstall in vbox, the problem only exits with the new kernel
[13:56] <Kano> maybe you find a way to test that with u too
[13:56] <Kano> bbl
[17:31] <MT-> ogasawara: hi
[21:16] <thevarment> Hello fellow users.
[21:18] <thevarment> I am new to linux/ubuntu and have a problem loading it on my dell as the only OS on the computer.
[21:19] <thevarment> I get an "Unable to boot - please use a Kernal that is appropriate for your CPU" message. I was hoping someone here might to able to help me?
[21:28] <mjg59> thevarment: You're trying to boot a 64-bit OS on a 32-bit system
[21:28] <mjg59> You should download the 32-bit version


[00:45] <deper29> hey, I'm trying to install lubuntu on an older pc. when I boot my livecd and click try lubuntu, I get no video at all. I have to fall back to tty. could someone help me with this?
[00:49] <deper29> I have an ati card
[02:41] <BlitzHere> Hi
[02:43] <BlitzHere> I just installed Lubuntu and have this little annoying issue. I uninstalled gnumeric and abiword for libreoffice but the shortcut to gnumeric is still in the menu. I can't get rid of it. Tried reinstalling and uninstalling. Can anyone help please? thanks
[02:44] <BlitzHere> Oh, and I did all the installations through CLI (apt-get)
[02:44] <holstein> http://wiki.lxde.org/en/Main_Menu#Menu_Editor
[02:46] <Unit193> BlitzHere: That's odd, anything in ~/.local/share/applications/ ?
[02:48] <Unit193> holstein: (I know you didn't write it)  Best to copy to ~/.local/share/applications/ and edit it there, or use for example menulibre. ;)
[02:48] <holstein> Unit193: i can see about editing it though
[02:48] <BlitzHere> Unit193: Just mimeapps.list
[02:48] <Unit193> (Technically, in reality I directly edit the files, but harder to revert.)
[02:49] <BlitzHere> holstein: Let me see if I can find gnumeric.desktop
[02:49] <Unit193> sudo updatedb && locate gnumeric.desktop
[02:51] <BlitzHere> Command running. And there's no gnumeric.desktop in /usr/share/applications
[02:51] <BlitzHere> Oh, wait. It's here
[02:51] <BlitzHere> :P
[02:54] <Unit193> Installed and purged it here, no menu left...
[02:55] <BlitzHere> Well, it was in a couple of places. Deleted them as root and it's gone now. Thanks Unit193, holstein
[02:55] <Unit193> Sure.
[02:56] <BlitzHere> I did purge it too - Dunno why it didn't work the first time around....
[02:58] <BlitzHere> Hmm, so, I did a locate gnumeric and a LOT of files turned up. Should I be getting rid of them?
[03:02] <BlitzHere> Also, when I was using the ubuntu netinstall CD or lubuntu alternate 12.04 or xubuntu alternate or basically anything that's not live, the installer doesn't detect my Ethernet card. I have a realtek 8139d and apparently, the drivers are in the kernel. Oddly the debian installer detects my card just fine. Should I file a bug report?
[03:09] <Unit193> BlitzHere: No, a lot of those are images that come with the theme.  The alternate is the debian installer, and you can try a bugreport, sure.
[03:13] <BlitzHere> Unit193, thanks. Will file in a bug report. And the debian installer detects my card while installing debian. The same installer doesn't detect my card on any of the ubuntu variants. It's odd....
[03:14] <Unit193> BlitzHere: Do you happen to know the versions?
[03:18] <BlitzHere> Unit193: Hmm, no. I'll see if I can look it up but the installer worked for both squeeze and wheezy on debian. But it didn't work for 12.04 netinst, xubuntu and lubuntu and 12.10 netinst, and lubuntu
[07:58] <BWMerlin> How do I go about updating to the latest nvidia drivers, apt-get only list 310 as experimental but nvidia has released 313 as stable
[08:13] <Unit193> I'd check Software Sources > Additional Drivers.
[08:16] <BWMerlin> I have, the latest experimental is 310
[08:17] <BWMerlin> I would install it from the nvidia website but they recommend that you should get the driver from your distribution updater
[08:26] <Unit193> When did it go stable?
[09:48] <BWMerlin> Unit193: 16/01/2013 according to http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTI3NjI
[11:31] <billhookman> hi all
[11:31] <SilverLion> hoi bill
[11:31] <billhookman> anybody know why i cannot find anything at software center?
[11:32] <billhookman> it just show me blank
[11:33] <SilverLion> billhookman: sorry no clue :(
[11:33] <billhookman> neither di I :D well, at least synaptic works
[11:40] <billhookman> hotline miami soundtrack on youtube, good shit indeed
[13:21] <cab___> don't remember who told me about xombrero ?
[21:23] <Hyperiant> Installed Lubuntu because standard Ubuntu works well on this laptop, but I'm getting horrible lag with flash videos in Chromium that wasn't there in standard Ubuntu.  Any ideas on how to fix?
[21:26] <holstein> Hyperiant: look into installing any graphics drivers
[21:27] <holstein> Hyperiant: make sure you have the same version of ubuntu, flash, the browser... etc
[21:27] <Hyperiant> I didn't install any drivers for the Ubuntu laptop, and I can't find Linux-compatible ones on the ATI website
[21:28] <Hyperiant> What do you mean by "same version"?
[21:28] <Hyperiant> They're both 12.10 with everything updated, the only difference is that one is Ubuntu with Chrome and this is Lubuntu with Chromium
[21:31] <Hyperiant> I should be more specific; there's two laptops with identical hardware, except one has Ubuntu and one has Lubuntu.  I have problems on Lubuntu that I don't have on Ubuntu.
[21:32] <TheLordOfTime> did you check to see if the hardware drivers tool that is existent on Ubuntu and Lubuntu has the drivers you need for graphics?
[21:32]  * TheLordOfTime very rarely suggests checking on the manufacturer's site for drivers + build/compile
[21:32] <TheLordOfTime> hence my asking :P
[21:33] <Hyperiant> TheLordOfTime: I'm not aware of such a tool ><
[21:34]  * TheLordOfTime pulls up his lubuntu VM
[21:35] <holstein> Hyperiant: chrome in 32bit has its own flash
[21:35] <holstein> Hyperiant: i would install the *same* browser
[21:35] <Unit193> And jockey in 12.10 isn't what it used to be either.
[21:44] <Hyperiant> Inexplicable, Chrome's version of Flash runs much faster
[21:44] <Hyperiant> *Inexplicably
[21:46] <holstein> Hyperiant: its a different version. that *is* the explanation
[21:46] <Unit193> Adobe doesn't like linux, basically.
[21:47] <holstein> that is the underlying explanation
[21:48] <Hyperiant> How do I make Chrome default, then?
[21:50] <Hyperiant> Also, apparently removing Chromium will also remove lubuntu-desktop
[21:50] <Hyperiant> ...that doesn't sound good
[21:52] <Unit193> No, that's fine.
[21:52] <Unit193> !metapackage
[21:55] <nortti> when trying to run some programs like wine or rtmpdump I usually get: WARNING: gnome-keyring:: couldn't connect to: /tmp/keyring-vxBXps/pkcs11: No such file or directory
[21:55] <nortti> what causes this?
[21:55] <Unit193> Did you restart your xsession?
[21:55] <Hyperiant> Is there any way to make backspace a hotkey for going back in pages on browsers or file managers?
[21:56] <Unit193> Hyperiant: It is by default in Firefox, don't know about chrom(e,ium)
[21:56] <Hyperiant> It doesn't work in Chrome or Chromium on Lubuntu but does on W7
[21:57] <Hyperiant> Apparently PCManFM uses it just fine
[22:01] <Unit193> nortti: If you restart lightdm when you have a screen session open, or restart the keyring with it open, then the env var is wrong.
[22:05] <nortti> ah
[22:09] <Unit193> nortti: I've gotten that, and just linked one to the other. :P
[23:03] <heliocentrique> Hello, so at last is Lubuntu got the Ubuntu Software Center ?
[23:04] <heliocentrique> they were supposed to integrate it in 12.04 IIRC
[23:05] <Unit193> Not quite right, there was the "Lubuntu Software Center", it's supposed to be a little lighter in weight, but you can always install "Ubuntu Software Center"
[23:05] <heliocentrique> Unit193: there was or there is ?
[23:06] <Unit193> Is.
[23:06] <Unit193> !info lubuntu-software-center
[23:06] <heliocentrique> oh thanks. as long as it's more user-friendly than the old package manager that I don't recall the name
[23:07] <wxl> and supposedly LSC is in 12.04 on up
[23:07] <heliocentrique> synaptic ?
[23:07] <wxl> i don't think user friendly is an objective thing to be measured, but my guess is you'll find it easier to use than synaptic or apt.
[23:08] <wxl> (although all of them are merely front ends for apt, but i digress…)
[23:08] <Unit193> wxl: For apt, or dpkg?
[23:09] <Unit193> Though, some people have had issues with getting LSC to install stuff?
[23:09] <wxl> oh right, apt is the front end to dpkg :)
[23:10]  * wxl shrugs.
[23:10] <wxl> i use apt. it works.
[23:10] <Unit193> Yep, pretty much.
[23:11] <heliocentrique> wxl: apt is the CLI ?
[23:11] <wxl> heliocentrique: well, apt and dpkg are both cli.
[23:13] <heliocentrique> wxl: thanks for your time, I'm going to install Lubuntu right now : )
[23:13] <wxl> oh you haven't installed the os at all yet?
[23:14] <wxl> if the only thing keeping you back is package management, keep in mind (as Unit193 suggested) that anything that's available in ubuntu is available in lubuntu
[23:17] <heliocentrique> wxl: ubuntu is too laggy on my old netbook to be usable, I was looking at Xubuntu but I installed Lubuntu in the past and liked it (it's fast and looks clean, A la Windows 95/XP but superior), I want something that works out-of-the box without having to troubleshoot
[23:18] <wxl> heliocentrique: then i think you will really like lubuntu. be wary of the "easy button," though. many of those pretty, easy little utilities in ubuntu (like USC) are not necessarily lightweight. we've been trying to put together a whole system that is light. if you need suggestions, please just ask.


 Any one know. How i can buy Linux lappto in good and affordable price
[09:29] <diogeness> mr_honesty123, it depends whether you need a new one or a used one.
 New one
[09:33] <diogeness> mr_honesty123, if a new one then i advice Dell, Acer or HP also with an intel CPU and without any OS preinstalled, that would be he cheapest one, if you want to play games then it won't be cheap.
[09:33] <diogeness> be*
 I want to. Use it for development for but my preference is Android development (re @IrcsomeBot: <diogeness> mr_honesty123, if a new one then i advice Dell, Acer or HP also with an intel CPU and without any OS preinstalled, that would be he cheapest one, if you want to play games then it won't be cheap.)
 How i can buy laptop without OS reinstalled
[09:39] <diogeness> mr_honesty123, 1) go to the store 2) ask if they have laptops without any OS, then it will be 200 dollar cheaper because they charge 200 dollars for the stupid windows only.
[09:40] <diogeness> also before you buy, you need to do a reasearch on wifi chips that are supported on Linux.
 Can i buy it online? (re @IrcsomeBot: <diogeness> mr_honesty123, 1) go to the store 2) ask if they have laptops without any OS, then it will be 200 dollar cheaper because they charge 200 dollars for the stupid windows only.)
[09:43] <diogeness> mr_honesty123, of course you can, what is your country?
 I am from India
 Do you have any idea which site is best and cheap and safe to buy it (re @IrcsomeBot: <diogeness> mr_honesty123, of course you can, what is your country?)
[09:51] <diogeness> https://www.amazon.in/Dell-i5-1235U-Processor-Spill-Resistant-Keyboard/dp/B0CJK118D2/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.YxbVkBKwOC6LtXvKCafNNg.I7nNnMCfB8paJdEk73bhVc0qZpYlCQ9qJjK4eUJcE7g&dib_tag=se&refinements=p_89%3AAcer%7CDell%2Cp_n_feature_nineteen_browse-bin%3A27370249031%2Cp_n_feature_twenty-six_browse-bin%3A27399069031%2Cp_n_feature_twenty-three_browse-bin%3A27387168031%2Cp_n_feature_twelve_browse-bin%3A66003839031&rnid=66003793031&s=computers&s
[09:51] <diogeness> r=1-1-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGZfYnJvd3Nl&psc=1
[09:56] <iomari891> greetings, Im using 23.10 but even as far back as 22.10 my apps randomly freeze after some time. If I kill the app and restart it may work for a while but ultimately I always have to reboot to put things right. I read somewhere that turning apci=off in grub may work but when I did that the system won't complete it's boot process.
[13:59] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[14:56] <Guest30> now we can chat
[14:56] <Guest30> we ballin
[14:56] <max67> shalom
[14:56] <Guest30> henlo
[14:57] <max67> there's 104 days of summer vacation but school comes along just to end iiiiiit
[14:58] <Guest30> who lives in a pineapple under the sea??
[14:58] <max67> idk
[14:58] <max67> i'm dum
[14:58] <max67> help
[14:58] <Guest30> :pensive:
[14:58] <max67> :skull:
[14:58] <Guest30> 😳
[15:00] <evan> testing
[15:00] <evan> i am the same person thanks
[15:01] <max67> nuh uh!!
[15:01] <evan> i am the only evan
[15:01] <max67> cap your honor
[15:01] <oerheks> hello, this is Kubuntu support, not the #test channel
[15:01] <evan> i disagree your honor
[15:02] <evan> woops
[15:02] <evan> our bad
[21:20] <chr7> hi
[21:27] <user|79> Hello, is kubuntu only for AMD?
[21:28] <oerheks> user|79, no
[21:29] <oerheks> 64 bit supports amd/intel
[21:30] <rick-timmis> Friends, we have just launched a Kubuntu Graphics Design Contest. https://kubuntu.org/news/kubuntu-graphic-design-contest/
[21:33] <oerheks> thanks rick. also ubuntu-studio .. https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/ubuntu-studio-24-04-wallpaper-competition/42528
[21:34] <oerheks> and 'ubuntu' https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/noble-numbat-24-04-wallpaper-competition/42300


[04:47]  * nlsthzn waves
[05:34] <nlsthzn> :/ thus far unable to open Google Docs...
[06:33] <nlsthzn> That seems to be the last of the summaries ;)
[14:39] <akgraner> nlsthzn, thanks
[14:39] <akgraner> I'll be back later today....had a funeral yesterday and just got a call my dad is in the hospital ....so I'll be back sometime today....
[14:42] <nlsthzn> akgraner, sorry to hear... hope everything is OK with your dad...
[14:42] <akgraner> thanks
[17:03] <pleia2> wow, summaries done already, awesome
[17:24] <pleia2> ok, summaries moved over, security added
[17:25] <pleia2> just need weekly dev meetings and ubuntu stats, so otherwise - please feel free to do editorial review now :)
[17:25] <pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue233
[18:34] <nlsthzn> pleia2, cool... will give it a scan :0
[18:34] <nlsthzn> I mean :)
[19:03] <nlsthzn> The new Ubuntu Software Center continues to add Free, free, and paid applications to its roster. The most recent submissions include Trauma, where you experience the dreams of a car-crash victim, the photo mashup app Photobomb, and back issues of Ubuntu User magazine. The last entry signals the Ubuntu Software Center’s foray into books and magazines.
[19:03] <nlsthzn> Not sure if the Free, free and paid is right
[19:03] <nlsthzn> Two free's?
[19:10] <Pendulum> Free as in Libre and free as in beer maybe?
[19:12] <Pendulum> personally, I'd change it to F/free and paid
[19:12] <Pendulum> although I know Free can be paid
[19:12] <nlsthzn> The article doesn't mention anything like it... and it is confusing... I was also thinking of changing iy
[19:12] <nlsthzn> *it
[19:12] <nlsthzn> to only free and paid
[19:13] <nlsthzn> Not to many people associate Libre with Free...
[19:15] <nlsthzn> Well we have time so I will leave this one to the powers that be... :) Good night all
[23:43] <akgraner> pleia2, anything else need to be done - I just got back from the hospital
[23:51] <pleia2> akgraner: hope everything is ok, we need dev meetings added, and then stats tomorrow
[23:51] <akgraner> k
[23:51] <akgraner> thanks


[06:19] <dupondje> dobey: ok thanks! Its really sad to see that nvidia didnt improve in the last years :( still crap on linux
[13:01] <dobey> dupondje: i've always had problems with nvidia, and not just on linux, so i stopped trying to use their stuff years ago.
[16:17] <dupondje> dobey: hehe. just to bad  99% of the laptops contain their vga :(
[16:21] <dobey> dupondje: ultrabooks don't ;) my next laptop will be a ryzen "ultraportable" though. going full amd again, now that they're "back"


[03:26] <BUGabundo> evening
[03:26] <BUGabundo> or mid night
[03:27] <BUGabundo> having a bunch of probs with video playback
[03:27] <BUGabundo> across all video players
[03:27] <BUGabundo> seems to have gotten worse around 2 weeks ago
[03:27] <bjsnider> has to be a nouveau issue if it's all players
[03:27] <BUGabundo> audio / video gets out of sync, and I experience lots of slowdownds
[03:28] <BUGabundo> using nouveau with 3D experimental support, as indicated by Sarvatt


[10:17] <RikMills> santa_: what is happening with frameworks?
[10:25] <RikMills> santa_: I guess ecm changes nuked some symbols?
[10:34] <santa_> RikMills: some symbols files need to be updated, I will continue with that today
[10:35] <RikMills> kool :) thanks
[12:21] <Mamarok> RikMills: shouldn't that be KDE Gear release instead of KDE release Gear?
[12:22] <Mamarok> why couldn't they just have left that as applications...
[12:25] <mparillo> KDE Gear (Apps) 20.04.3) landed in II as well. Konsole, Dolphin, and Kate all appear OK. I noticed a release or two back integrated git in kate. Today I noticed an integrated file browser under the git function (and it seems to work), but maybe it was there before.
[15:27] <RikMills> Mamarok: No, as it is 'KDE release something' as like 'Mircosoft release Windows XX'
[15:28] <RikMills> I though about 'KDE release KDE Gear' but looked ugly
[15:28] <RikMills> mparillo: thanks. must have been there, as no new features in 21.04.3


[12:27] <bdmurray> Is there a way to move an attachment from one bug report to another?
[12:28] <thumper> not that I know of
[01:25] <tokj> is launchpad in maintenance or something? i keep getting OOPSes
[01:36] <jordi> that doesn't sound like maintenance
[01:55] <tck> lol..
[01:55] <jordi> I mean, there must be some problem, nothing scheduled
[01:55] <jordi> but I can't tell you more than that
[06:50] <ubotu> New bug: #133089 in launchpad "Unused BugTask target types complicating and slowing down Launchpad" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/133089
[08:36] <carlos> morning
[09:12] <poolie> launchpad seems to be consistently timing out for me....
[09:12] <jamesh> poolie: for a particular page, or more generally?
[09:12] <poolie> searching for 'tag' in bzr bugs
[09:13] <poolie> well it did it three times in a row at least
[10:13] <mrevell> Morning all
[10:14] <Hobbsee> morning mrevell!
[10:21] <mrevell> morning Hobbsee! Hey, you know you've done too much irc when you try to tab auto-complete the word morning.
[10:21] <Hobbsee> mrevell: :D
[10:21] <Hobbsee> mrevell: i havent tried that yet
[10:21] <mrevell> Hobbsee: I regular find myself getting frustrated when pressing tab, and then realising that auto-complete works for nicks, not for the entire English language.
[10:21] <mrevell> Hobbsee: OpenOffice does it, though :)
[10:21] <Hobbsee> hehe
[10:21] <Hobbsee> indeed it does - i was quite surprised
[10:24] <mrevell> Hobbsee: Yeah, it's the sort of feature that annoyed me at first, particularly if it chose the wrong word, but now I miss it. I wish my pen would auto-complete too.
[10:24] <Hobbsee> hehe
[11:02] <Hobbsee> mrevell: any idea if there are plans to split otu team email and person email in the future?
[11:03] <mrevell> Hobbsee: Hmm, I writing a short guide to the X-Launchpad... headers today. Erm, I don't know of a plan but I can ask.
[11:04] <Hobbsee> mrevell: thunderbird will sometimes filter it correctly.  iv'e also tried to ge tthe server sieve to work.  we'll see if behaves.
[11:09] <carlos> Hobbsee: I use sieve already and works quite well
[11:09] <Hobbsee> carlos: can you give me the syntax of your sieve stuff?  my sieve-foo isnt so great
[11:10] <carlos> I use squirrelmail's plugin to manage sieve servers
[11:11] <carlos> but I think I could get the script it generates and show you it...
[11:11] <Hobbsee> oh, i think i've figured it out
[11:11] <carlos> s/sieve servers/sieve rules/
[11:12] <carlos> then, do you still need my filter rule examples?
[11:13] <Hobbsee> it'd be helpful, but it's not essential
[12:49] <carlos> Hobbsee: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/34037/
[12:50] <Hobbsee> carlos: ah right.  yes, i was more wondering about the field names.  thanks
[12:54] <carlos> Hobbsee: http://www.squirrelmail.org/countdl.php?fileurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.squirrelmail.org%2Fplugins%2Favelsieve-1.9.7.tar.gz
[12:54] <carlos> Hobbsee: that's the tool I use to manage rules and it should have most of the field names information
[12:54] <Hobbsee> right, OK
[01:43] <SteveA> mrevell: where's the list of mini specs for the doc project?
[01:44] <mrevell> SteveA: Just a moment.
[01:45] <mrevell> SteveA: https://launchpad.canonical.com/UserDocumentation
[01:46] <SteveA> mrevell: we need to move this to a public wiki
[01:46] <SteveA> otherwise, we won't get help on it
[01:46] <mrevell> SteveA: Sorry, gave you the wrong link: https://help.launchpad.net/DocumentationSpecs
[01:47] <Hobbsee> SteveA: i doubt you will anyway, unless you play your cards carefully.
[01:48] <SteveA> Hobbsee: why is that?
[01:49] <Hobbsee> SteveA: because launchpad is a closed source project.
[01:49] <Hobbsee> SteveA: so people go "oh, i cant do anything with that"
[01:50] <SteveA> "quick start guide"
[01:50] <Hobbsee> ahhh
[01:51] <SteveA> people have written books and websites and blogs on ways to use google better
[01:52] <jordi> oio SteveA!
[01:52] <SteveA> and I never hear anyone say of google "it's closed source, so I can't do anything with that"
[01:52] <Hobbsee> granted, but search engines are different - in that there are more of them, where the same principles apply in exactly the same way.
[01:52] <SteveA> what about google maps
[01:52] <SteveA> same applies
[01:52] <SteveA> jordi: hoi!
[01:53] <Hobbsee> SteveA: okay.  i may be wrong.
[01:53] <jordi> Hobbsee: there's many arguments to waive re: launchpad's non-freeness, but "can't do anything with it" is bogus. google is a perfect example. They use FS to build their zillion apps, but they are not free. Everyone loves them though.
[01:54] <Hobbsee> jordi: this is true.  i wonder why those who whinge about launchpad not being free dont do the same about google.
[01:54] <SteveA> google has pretty good APIs
[01:55] <SteveA> launchpad has pretty crap APIs
[01:55] <SteveA> we're changing this though -- in 2 weeks, a bunch of us are meeting in florida
[01:55] <SteveA> to start a project to make some useful open APIs and libraries for Launchpad
[01:56] <jordi> google, even though it's becoming a frightening information monster, is "cool". Launchpad is in the Linux distro wars fight, so not everyone is happy to defend it. I guess? :)
[01:56] <Fujitsu> Something's actually happening about that? Yay!
[01:56] <SteveA> to help people embed information from Launchpad in web pages, and write new programs to talk to launchpad
[01:56] <jordi> SteveA: woa, that's pretty cool
[01:56] <Fujitsu> SteveA: All I can say is `finally'
[01:56] <SteveA> Fujitsu: I'm glad you approve!
[01:57] <jordi> I wonder if my little list of "things Rosetta can do when there's a good way of exporting stuff" is still in the laptop
[01:57] <SteveA> jordi: please send it to me
[01:58] <Hobbsee> that sounds cool @ the APIs, etc.
[01:58] <jordi> SteveA: if I find it, I fear it was in a partition I blew up
[01:58] <jordi> but I'll look for it
[01:59] <jordi> a little chat between the rosetta people would come up with the ideas pretty fast I guess
[02:01] <SteveA> jordi: if you come up with anything, let me know
[02:01] <Hobbsee> presumably the documentation wont need to change much, if launchpad stays working the same way
[02:01] <mpt> Gooooooooooooooood morning Launchpadders!
[02:01] <Fujitsu> Hi mpt.
[02:02] <Hobbsee> hi mpt
[02:10] <jordi> SteveA: will do
[02:11] <jordi> SteveA: once I know more about what the APIs can offer, ideas should flow
[03:26] <Rinchen> ping jordi / laserjock
[03:29] <Rinchen> unping jordi
[03:31] <Hobbsee> laserjock's not on irc or on jabber..
[03:36] <Rinchen> Yeah I always seem to get those two confused. :-)  I need laserjock.  I usually seem him on the fridge channel in about 2 hours from now. Just being hopeful :-)
[03:37] <Hobbsee> heh :)
[03:38] <Hobbsee> Rinchen: just get him to move to au, and he'll be doing all sorts of crazy timezones
[03:38] <Rinchen> :-)
[03:39] <mrevell> Hobbsee: Are you still awake? :)
[03:39] <Hobbsee> mrevell: no.  i irc over sleeping-brainwaves
[03:39] <mrevell> Hobbsee: Hey, I'd like to see the paper describing that.
[03:39] <Hobbsee> mrevell: well, ther'es already one for IP over carrier pidgeon
[03:41] <jordi> Rinchen: you mix me up with laserjock? That's interesting ;)
[03:43] <Rinchen> Not that you to look a like mind you
[03:43] <jordi> hehe
[03:43] <jordi> I don't know laserjock
[03:43] <Hobbsee> oh wait, there was probably a MOTU one
[03:44] <jordi> but in any case, I'm off!
[05:03] <LucidFox> How do I enable support for Launchpad translations for a Qt application using .ts/.qm files?
[05:04] <LucidFox> (I'm its upstream developer, and it has a package in Ubuntu)
[05:06] <Rinchen> carlos, danilos, ^^
[05:07] <carlos> LucidFox: you will need to use a script to convert from ts/qm files to .po files
[05:07] <carlos> I think it's called ts2po
[05:07] <carlos> Rinchen: thanks
[05:08] <Rinchen> thanks carlos - I didn't know the answer to that one.
[05:08] <Rinchen> that's in the translate package right?
[05:08] <carlos> LucidFox: once you get the .pot and any .po with current existing translations you could upload them into Launchpad and we will approve it
[05:08] <carlos> Rinchen: I think so, yes. Not sure...
[05:08] <Rinchen> great, thanks
[05:11] <carlos> Rinchen: translate-toolkit
[05:11] <carlos> LucidFox: ^^^
[05:11] <Rinchen> that's the one
[05:21] <Philip5> any admins for the dogfood server around?
[05:22] <Rinchen> cprov, ^^
[05:23] <Philip5> i'm waiting for a reply on my request for a account on the dogfood server from matthew and was hoping to get a chance to setup upp my PPA this weekend. anyone know if he comes here?
[05:23] <cprov> Philip5: hi, what's your account in LP ?
[05:24] <Philip5> cprov: Philip5
[05:25] <Philip5> philip5 if it's case sensitive
[05:26] <Philip5> got my pgp-key and signed the CoC on LP
[05:28] <LucidFox> I processed the Russian translation I made, and the .po and .pot files are identical for some reason
[05:28] <cprov> Philip5: you should have said https://launchpad.net/~philip71 ;)
[05:28] <LucidFox> (I did try the -P switch for the .pot file)
[05:28] <Philip5> oh
[05:28] <Philip5> cprov: right.. that's th ur but i checked my login name :)
[05:29] <cprov> Philip5: that was your 'displayname', but np ... let see how can I transport your data
[05:30] <Philip5> cprov: that would be great :)
[05:37] <cprov> Philip5: you should be able to login now, https://dogfood.launchpad.net/~philip71
[05:37] <Philip5> i'll give it a try.. hold on
[05:38] <Philip5> cprov: works great! thanks!
[05:39] <cprov> Philip5: wait, I have other parts to copy (CoC & GPG)
[05:39] <Philip5> should i log out?
[05:39] <cprov> Philip5: btw, you have to sort your membership in launchpad-beta-testers in production with mrevell.
[05:39] <Philip5> ok
[05:39] <mrevell> Hi, how can I help?
[05:39] <cprov> Philip5: no, you can stay logged in
[05:40] <superm1> cprov, is there a reason why when building on a PPA a script in /usr/share/PACKAGE/bin/SCRIPT_NAME would be marked -rw-r--r-- root/root, when in my pbuilder it turns out -rwxr-xr-x root/root.  Exact same source package
[05:42] <cprov> superm1: not that I know, check for 'sbuild' weirdness with infinity
[05:42] <superm1> k cprov thx
[05:45] <mrevell> Hi Philip5 - I'm trying to find an email from you. What name would it be under?
[05:45] <LucidFox> All right, I have the .po and .pot files ready - how do I upload them to LP?
[05:46] <Philip5> mrevell: philip71
[05:46] <Philip5> mrevell: philip71@ <mymailadress>
[05:48] <Philip5> mrevell: sent yesterday i think and it's a reply on the general info about dogfood
[05:48] <mrevell> Philip5: Thanks. I've found an email that I sent to you on Wednesday explaining what you need to do next. It looks as though you no whave a
[05:48] <mrevell> Philip5: Hmm, I can't see that
[05:48] <mrevell> Philip5: Anyway, not to worry, let's get your sorted in the beta team.
[05:49] <Philip5> mrevell: am i already classed as spam?!?! ;)
[05:49] <Philip5> mrevell: that would be great... i will start to upload som stuff to it this weekend
[05:50] <mrevell> Philip5: Cool! To join the beta team, you need to do a couple of things first. I'll send you an email now that explains.
[05:50] <Philip5> ok
[05:50] <mrevell> Philip5: It's a standard email that I send to everyone who wants/needs to join the beta team. Let me know when you get it.
[05:51] <Philip5> mrevell: got it now
[05:51] <mrevell> Philip5: great.
[05:53] <Philip5> mrevell: do you just want a confirmation and an accept of that mail as an reply?
[05:53] <mrevell> Philip5: please
[05:58] <Philip5> mrevell: i now just sent the confirmation
[05:59] <Philip5> mrevell: but i guess i can publish the PPA adress for my repro to friends as long as the how it's made are not made public?
[06:00] <mrevell> Philip5: Yes, you can definitely share the PPA URL.
[06:00] <Philip5> great
[06:00] <mrevell> Philip5: The privacy side of things applies more to other features we test, as we've already spoken to the press about PPA.
[06:01] <Philip5> i understand
[06:01] <mrevell> Philip5: However, we'd still prefer it if people don't blog about the details of PPA as they could change by the time we launch, and it could get confusing.
[06:01] <mrevell> Philip5: Right, I'll go look at your email and get you in the team.
[06:02] <mrevell> Philip5: Oh, could you please change your display name in production Launchpad and dogfood Launchpad to your full real name?
[06:02] <mrevell> Philip5: We ask you to do this for a couple of reasons:
[06:02] <Philip5> mrevell: no problem
[06:02] <mrevell> Philip5: It makes it easier for us to communicate with beta testers, to tell you about new features to test, etc
[06:03] <mrevell> Philip5: and we feel it's more appropriate as we're asking you to agree not to talk publicly about the features.
[06:03] <mrevell> Philip5: thanks.
[06:04] <Philip5> mrevell: done
[06:05] <mrevell> Philip5: Sorry, but it looks as though it still says "philip5" as your display name in your main Launchpad profile - i.e. your non-dogfood profile.
[06:07] <Philip5> mrevell: chould i change it on the non-testing LP-server too?
[06:07] <Philip5> should even...
[06:07] <mrevell> Philip5: Yes please.
[06:08] <Philip5> mrevell: done
[06:08] <mrevell> Philip5: thanks :)
[06:08] <mrevell> Philip5: I'll add you to the team now.
[06:09] <Philip5> do i need to add myself to the launchpad-users list or is the betalist seperate?
[06:11] <mrevell> Philip5: I've added you to the team both on main Launchpad and dogfood. Yeah, please join launchpad-users ... that's where all the beta discussion happens.
[06:11] <Philip5> ok, then i do that too
[06:14] <Philip5> mrevell: do i understand it right if all packages should be labeled as universe/devel in section of the debian control file nomatter what kind of package it is?
[06:14] <mrevell> Philip5: Thanks. Welcome to the Launchpad beta team. If you have any questions, please mail the launchpad-users list. Take a look through the recent archive for that list, too, as you'll see some of the discussion that's already taken place.
[06:15] <mrevell> Philip5: I'm afraid I'll have to ask one of my colleagues to help you with this. cprov is the developer who has been working on PPA. I tihnk he may be at lunch right now, though.
[06:16] <Philip5> mrevell: so far the only thing i can think of is learnig the dput tool as i haven't uploaded that way before but i guess it's pretty straight forward
[06:16] <mrevell> Philip5: Have you seen the PPA quick-start guide? https://help.launchpad.net/PPAQuickStart
[06:17] <Philip5> mrevell: hmm, lunch? where are you guys at geographicly? in the u.s?
[06:17] <Philip5> mrevell: i just read it
[06:17] <mrevell> Philip5: I'm in the UK, cprov is in Brazil.
[06:18] <mrevell> Philip5: As a team, we have members in Australia, New Zealand, the US, France, Spain, Luxembourg, The Netherlands ... I'm trying to think if I've missed anywhere.
[06:19] <Philip5> then someone from the team should be around almost at any time of day :)
[06:21] <mrevell> Philip5: Pretty much, yes :)
[06:30] <Philip5> cprov-lunch: please let me know when you are back from lunch as i have a couple of question about the build process... mainly how the buildserver/PPA server knows how to use dependencies of packages that i updated and have on my own PPA so it doesn't get built just against the official packages in the ubuntu repros
[06:39] <mpt> Brazil!
[06:40] <mpt> oh, you said Brazil
[06:44] <mwhudson> lithuania and germany, i think?
[07:42] <Philip5> cprov: are you there?
[07:42] <cprov> Philip5: yup
[07:43] <Philip5> i just made my first dput to my ppa
[07:43] <Philip5> just wondering how long i have to wait for a accept or reject?
[07:43] <cprov> Philip5: congrats ! the processor runs in batches every 20 minutes (:00, :20, :40)
[07:43] <Philip5> dput didn't complain about the upload
[07:44] <Philip5> ok so i have to wait about 20 min before i can know if it's in que?
[07:46] <cprov> Philip5: 15 minutes ;)
[07:47] <Philip5> cprov: ok... but if i upload sourcepackages that are dependent on a package i just uploaded do i have to wait for a confirm that it got built ok before my next package can build with the first package as dependency?
[07:48] <Philip5> will be rather tedious if i have to wait 15 min between every package... just a thought...
[07:48] <cprov> Philip5: you don't necessarily have to wait, the sources will find their way inside soyuz. If you have another package upload it.
[07:49] <Philip5> cprov: am i right that it only builds about the main repro and my ppa repro and don't use packages found in universe or mulitverse?
[07:50] <Philip5> cprov: if so... is there a way to make my ppa able to fetch from i e multiverse?
[07:50] <cprov> Philip5: no, it does use all components, respecting ogre-model (main sources can only build-dep from other main binaries, universe source can only build-depend on main+restricted+universe binaires, and so on)
[07:52] <cprov> Philip5: only sources target to multiverse or universe can build-dep on binaries in universe, according to what I've just said. So if you want to build-dep on universe binaries you have to upload your source to universe ->  "Section: universe/<section>" trick in debian/control
[07:53] <Philip5> aha, so if i use ie universe/libs in debian/control then it can fetch or do fetch from universe?
[07:54] <cprov> Philip5: don't panic, it's all in ubuntu-packaging-guide and a special compilation of it for PPA users is coming.
[07:54] <cprov> Philip5: exactly, you got it.
[07:54] <Philip5> ok, great
[08:04] <cprov> Philip5: I've not seen your upload ...
[08:04] <Philip5> cprov: i'm also starting to worry about if something is wrong
[08:05] <Philip5> cprov: i used: "incoming = ~philip71/ubuntu/"   in  my .dput.cf
[08:06] <Philip5> i hope that is right? it's the first time i use dput
[08:06] <cprov> Philip5: fqdn ?
[08:06] <Philip5> fqdn = upload.dogfood.launchpad.net
[08:07] <Philip5> and the login = anonymous as i read in the quickstart
[08:07] <cprov> Philip5: that's right, what does dput say  when you run it ?
[08:09] <Philip5> cprov: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/34088/
[08:10] <cprov> Philip5: Uploading to ubuntu (via ftp to upload.ubuntu.com) <- !!!
[08:11] <Philip5> woohoaa, where did he get that from?
[08:11] <cprov> Philip5: the default target
[08:12] <cprov> Philip5: you have to use `dput <target> <changesfile>`
[08:12] <cprov> Philip5: btw, I can see you package reject in ubuntu, you should have gotten an message
[08:13] <Philip5> oh, and the target is the [my-ppa]  in .dput.cf?
[08:13] <cprov> dput my-ppa <changesfile>
[08:13] <Philip5> hehe, true... i just saw the mail frn the ubuntu server :)
[08:14] <cprov> Philip5: bash_completion will your friend ;)
[08:14] <Philip5> i'll give it a new shot :)
[08:15] <Philip5> now it gave me the right ftp to upload on
[08:15] <Philip5> learn something new every day... today i learned how to use dput... yeaiiii :)
[08:15] <cprov> "frn" obligated me to desperately clean my screen, ehe ... long we haven't touch each other.
[08:17] <cprov> Philip5: there we go, our sources are there, 3 minutes and counting.
[08:18] <Philip5> wooohoo
[08:18] <Philip5> my first build will be the brand new rtorrent :)
[08:19] <Philip5> tought it would be a good one to try out the ppa with
[08:21] <cprov> Philip5: "rtorrent is ... ideal to use with screen", interesting ...
[08:21] <Philip5> yes
[08:22] <cprov> Philip5: I think you have a big ACCEPTED email in you inbox :)
[08:22] <Philip5> right now i'm setting up a extra pbuilder chroot for the builds against my ppa so i can make a better check before i upload
[08:22] <Philip5> wooohooo
[08:23] <cprov> that's what I can see also in https://dogfood.launchpad.net/~philip71/+archive
[08:23] <Philip5> me too :D
[08:23] <Philip5> hehe this is both cool and fun :)
[08:24] <cprov> Philip5: uhm ... a pbuilder chroot including your PPA is a very good idea. Although it consumes some disk.
[08:25] <Philip5> yes but i think it's worth it
[08:25] <cprov> Philip5: one day PPA will be so easy that you won't need to bore yourself with local setup. Coming soon.
[08:25] <Philip5> nice
[08:37] <cprov> Philip5: I have to leave now, your builds are already created, https://dogfood.launchpad.net/~philip71/+archive/+builds?build_text=&build_state=all and should be processed as soon as builders get idle.
[08:37] <cprov> Philip5: good luck and bye.
[08:38] <cprov-out> Philip5: well, they're already building, https://dogfood.launchpad.net/+builds/rubidium/
[08:39] <Philip5> cprov-out: cool :)
[08:59] <bdmurray> Is there a way to search a bug watch like https://launchpad.net/bugs/bugtrackers/gnome-bugs ?
[09:22] <gmb> bdmurray: Hi. I assume you want to search within the bugs that have watches against a particular bug tracker, yes?
[09:32] <bdmurray> Why yes, that is what I was looking for.


[12:00] <Dwellr> query.. what does juju expose actually do from an lxc/lxd perspective ?
[12:22] <rick_h> Dwellr: nothing, expose is meant to update firewall rules to enable ports the charm needs to open properly. On LXD and providers without a built in firewall setup (security groups or the like) there's nothing there to work against
[13:01] <SimonKLB> is there any reason why the ceph charm does not implement the ceph-admin interface?
[13:03] <SimonKLB> i would like to try out ceph with kubernetes with a minimal setup as a poc, not having to deploy ceph-mon x3 and ceph-osd x3 if possible
[13:04] <rick_h> SimonKLB: not sure. Have to check in with the OS folks. Cool experiment to try out.
[13:07] <SimonKLB> jamespage icey cholcombe ^
[13:08] <jamespage> SimonKLB: the ceph charm is officially deprecated; as such it does not always grow the same features as ceph-mon and ceph-osd do over time
[13:08] <SimonKLB> jamespage: got it, is there any way to have a ceph deployment smaller than 6 machines?
[13:08] <jamespage> only reason its still in the charm store is we've not found a satisfactory migration approach for existing ceph deployments.
[13:09] <jamespage> SimonKLB: what provider are you using?
[13:09] <SimonKLB> jamespage: aws
[13:09] <jamespage> SimonKLB: hmm no not really
[13:09] <SimonKLB> jamespage: alright, then ill go with that!
[13:09] <jamespage> with MAAS you can of course place ceph-mon on LXD containers, and ceph-osd alongside k8s
[13:10] <SimonKLB> ah, would that not work on aws though?
[13:11] <SimonKLB> ceph-mon on 3 LXDs and ceph-osd on one worker each would be pretty neat
[13:11] <SimonKLB> just to try it out
[13:19] <icey> SimonKLB: AWS doesn't have the overlay networking required to get packets into the ceph-mon's in containers
[13:19] <SimonKLB> icey: ah too bad!
[13:24] <wpk> (that problem will be solved in 2.3)
[13:27] <SimonKLB> wpk: im running 2.3-alpha1.1, that fix is not there yet?
[13:29] <wpk> SimonKLB: no
[14:19] <bdx> wpk: you are my hero
[14:20] <bdx> great news
[14:42] <tvanhove> does anybody know what is up with the bigtop repos?
[14:42] <tvanhove> kafka charm is currently failing because of 403 forbidden
[14:42] <tvanhove> http://bigtop-repos.s3.amazonaws.com/releases/1.2.0/ubuntu/16.04/x86_64
[14:50] <rick_h> kwmonroe: ^
[14:51] <kwmonroe> hm - not sure tvanhove, but i'll send a "wat?" to the dev list
[14:57] <Dwellr> wondering if (after installing conjure-up kubernetes-core) I should be using iptables to route traffic to the node InternalIP .. or if I should be figuring out how to add an 'ExternalIP' to the node
[15:07] <kwmonroe> tvanhove: not that you needed it, but i verified the 403 on a different arch as well.  looks like something is afoul with all 1.2.0 repos:
[15:07] <kwmonroe> E: Failed to fetch http://bigtop-repos.s3.amazonaws.com/releases/1.2.0/ubuntu/16.04/ppc64le/pool/contrib/k/kafka/kafka_<IP_ADDRESS>-1_all.deb  403  Forbidden
[15:13] <tvanhove> yeah we were setting up for a demo next week and noticed the failure in our juju storm deployments with kafka
[15:26] <kwmonroe> tvanhove: mail sent to<EMAIL_ADDRESS> i'll keep you in the loop as soon as we figure out what's up.
[15:27] <kwmonroe> tvanhove: until then, one possible workaround would be to manually set the repo on each affected unit to the CI builders.  to do that, you'd edit your apt sources like this:  http://paste.ubuntu.com/25445303/
[15:29] <kwmonroe> i've verified an apt-get update / install works from those repos.
[15:30] <kwmonroe> buuuuut, that's upstream vs the official 1.2.0 release.  so don't go to production with that ;)
[15:34] <tvanhove> it's just for demos right now
[15:34] <tvanhove> no production
[15:34] <tvanhove> thanks :)
[15:34] <kwmonroe> "it's just for demos" <-- that's what they all say ;)
[15:34] <tvanhove> ;)
[16:03] <stormmore> o/ juju world
[16:07] <kwmonroe> \o stormmore
[16:13] <kwmonroe> tvansteenburgh: do you recall if stub's "hookenv.principal_unit" fix was the only thing in ch-0.18.1 (vs 0.18.0)?  wanna make sure i'm reading this right: https://code.launchpad.net/~charm-helpers/charm-helpers/devel
[16:14] <stormmore> b 40
[16:15] <tvansteenburgh> kwmonroe: yeah it was just that one commit
[16:15] <kwmonroe> ack, thx tvansteenburgh
[17:56] <xarses> hml: is there a way to remove/stop the auto subnet scanning neutron subnets for network-space mapping? it keeps finding embarrassing duplicates and crashes the whole install
[17:57] <hml> xarses: i’m not sure, let me see what I can find out.
[17:58] <hml> rick_h: ^^^ any ideas?
[17:58]  * rick_h erads backlog
[17:58] <xarses> https://gist.github.com/xarses/307a07d290fcc9f48008b3ae1d192f05#file-duplicate-neutron-subnets
[17:59] <rick_h> hml: xarses is that in the neutron charm itself? Or in juju trying to figure out what's up?
[17:59] <hml> rick_h: i think it’s juju investigating subnets
[17:59] <xarses> juju bootsrap on a openstack cloud fails with a duplicate subnet in neutron
[17:59] <rick_h> yea, gotcha
[18:00] <hml> xarses: oh, try bootstrapping with the network uuid instead?
[18:00] <rick_h> normally that's the bootstrap path ^
[18:00] <hml> xarses: i thought it was a different issue
[18:00] <xarses> no, its scanning networks in the output of `openstack subnet list`
[18:01] <xarses> the network to boot the instance selector is not the problem here
[18:01] <xarses> it's found 2 duplicates on me so far, and I'm guessing I have another 4 based on what happened here
[18:02] <hml> xarses: sounds like bootstrap is failing when discovering subnets for juju - where juju list-subnets etc would be used
[18:02] <xarses> but the bootstrap haults on reading the duplicate
[18:08] <hml> xarses: while we look for a workaround on this… can you file a bug on this please?
[18:08] <xarses> sure, on lp?
[18:09] <hml> xarses: yes: https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju
[18:09] <hml> xarses:  I have an idea, but not sure if it’ll work - let me test out first
[18:10] <xarses> cool
[18:13] <xarses> yay, it only took 3 days, but I finally have a controller installed
[18:13] <hml> xarses: w00t!  sorry it took so long.   openstack is one of the harder to bootstrap unforunately.
[18:13] <kwmonroe> tvanhove: bad news!  see the [IMPORTANT] thread here:  http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/bigtop-user/201708.mbox/browser.  tl;dr, kafka was removed from the repos due to licensing.
[18:13] <xarses> hml: dont worry about the work around, I was more easily than expected able to remove the duplicates
[18:14] <hml> xarses: good news -
[18:17] <xarses> ya, I wish it wasn't so stubborn, the main issue where with the image and tools metadata process being overly weird to the uninitiated
[18:19] <hml> xarses: usually the tools aren’t an issue - the images are, because they are specific to your openstack.  we can’t just download the info - it’s not an issue with other clouds.  :-/
[18:19] <hml> xarses: that said, we’re looking to improve the docuementation on this
[18:19] <xarses> it was the offlining that I had to do for the tools to get them through whatever was wrong with the network that was causing them to time out
[18:20] <xarses> The network guys still haven't come back to me on that
[18:20] <zeestrat> xarses: Somewhat related is this bug (though that is concerning the generic subnet that is created for HA routers): https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju/+bug/1710848
[18:20] <mup> Bug #1710848: Bootstrapping Juju 2.2.x fails on a Openstack cloud with Neutron running in HA. <network> <openstack-provider> <juju:Incomplete> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1710848>
[18:21] <xarses> oh, well that is about what I was to report
[18:22] <xarses> close enough anyway
[18:27] <xarses> I wacked it back to new, while confirmed might be just as valid, its not my project
[18:28] <xarses> so it doesn't languish in some incomplete filter
[18:28] <zeestrat> xarses: Great. Feel free to hit the "affects me too" button too.
[18:28] <zeestrat> Duplicate subnets is a pretty common scenario in OpenStack so Juju will need to handle that anyway
[18:33] <xarses> yep
[18:39] <hml> xarses: good thing the subnets were easy to remove - my idea didn’t work. :-(
[18:50] <xarses> happens
[20:53] <xarses> thanks for your help hml, wouldn't have gotten throug this w/out it
[20:53] <hml> xarses: glad I could help!
[20:54] <xarses> now I can continue with the getting started videos
[20:54] <xarses> =)
[20:54] <hml> :-)
[20:54] <hml> there’s a juju show on youtube also with different topics - maybe that’s what you’ve found?
[20:56] <xarses> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovsBVZsQqtg
[20:56] <xarses> for  1.25
[20:56] <xarses> which means a bunch of these commands aren't around anymore
[20:56] <hml> 1.25 is a bit different than 2.0
[20:56] <hml> the concepts have changed too
[20:56] <xarses> ya, finding useful videos is is hard
[20:57] <xarses> most are a billion years old
[20:57] <xarses> I've ran into a few that appear to be 0.x
[20:58] <hml> here’s one of the bi-weekly juju show: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoZsP7TDyZI
[20:58] <hml> let me look for me
[20:58] <hml> more
[21:00] <xarses> ya, I've watched most of that and felt lacking from it
[21:01] <hml> ah
[21:03] <hml> that’s more on-going juju news rather than getting started
[21:07] <xarses> ya
[21:58] <xarses> zeestrat: hmm, a possible work around is to hide the duplicate networks from the user bootstraping the controller