[00:07] <cody-somerville> asac, you really *are* a karma whore.
[00:38] <xnguard> Does OpenJDK provide a Java Control Panel similar to the Sun JDK's?
[06:57] <pitti> Good morning
[06:57] <pitti> ArneGoetje: hi
[08:14] <seb128> hello there
[08:31]  * pitti has updated https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
[08:31] <pitti> quite a number of new issues
[08:32] <pitti> I need a two hour block of intense hacking to work on my RC bugs; back later
[08:32] <seb128> robert_ancell: hi
[08:33] <seb128> robert_ancell: could you open your rhythmbox bug upstream too? ;-)
[08:33] <robert_ancell> seb128: hey seb
[08:33]  * seb128 read emails from the night
[08:33] <robert_ancell> yes, was going to do that...
[08:33]  * robert_ancell is bug juggling
[08:36] <seb128> hey mvo
[08:36] <seb128> robert_ancell: how was your day? what did you work on?
[08:36] <robert_ancell> seb128: now I remember... You said not to confirm your own bugs so I was waiting for someone to do that.  (which has now been done)
[08:36] <mvo> hey seb128
[08:37] <seb128> robert_ancell: well you can open your bugs upstream directly though ;-)
[08:37] <seb128> robert_ancell: there is no point to have you open it on launchpad to get me to do the forwarding to bugzilla.gnome.org for example
[08:37] <seb128> opening directly to bugzilla is a win for everybody
[08:38] <robert_ancell> seb128: I spent some more time on 300954 but haven't really made any more progress.  I don't have good knowledge of this layer so making slow progress - any other eyes greatly welcome
[08:39] <seb128> robert_ancell: ok, don't spend to much time on it, it's sort of a corner case
[08:39] <robert_ancell> seb128: other than that mostly triaging.  Been trying to get vinagre bugs all upstream
[08:39] <seb128> robert_ancell: I got some other higher priority bugs on my list though if you want to have a look to some of those
[08:39] <seb128> robert_ancell: good ;-)
[08:40] <robert_ancell> seb128: a list of bugs would be good.  I still don't have a good overview of the problems out there so I'm kind of starting at the bottom hunting for bugs to fix (which is also good so I know which bugs are duplicates)
[08:40] <seb128> does anybody has gnome-sound-properties freezing?
[08:41] <robert_ancell> seb128: regarding the rhythmbox issue:  I opened that against Ubuntu because
[08:41] <robert_ancell> seb128: a) I didn't have a GNOME checkout
[08:41] <robert_ancell> seb128: b) It will affect other Ubuntu users
[08:41] <seb128> robert_ancell: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/~desktop-bugs, click on the advanced search and select milestoned 9.04 and you get a list of issues that would be nice to work on for jaunty
[08:42] <seb128> robert_ancell: right, I would advice to open on launchpad and upstream in those case or make a comment saying that you will forward upstream after investigation so bug triagers don't pick it up for you
[08:43] <seb128> robert_ancell: I usually don't bother testing on svn we have recent version (ie the current tarball is 2 weeks old)
[08:43] <seb128> but if you test with svn that's better ;-)
[08:44] <robert_ancell> seb128: cool.  will do in the future.
[08:44] <seb128> thanks
[08:44] <seb128> robert_ancell: do you have an ipod? ;-)
[08:44] <robert_ancell> seb128: I have a 2nd gen iPod (somewhere)
[08:45] <seb128> robert_ancell: bug #312902 might be not too hard to fix, it's pretty well described in the upstream bug with the faulty code etc
[08:45] <seb128> robert_ancell: that would be worth fixing if you want to have a look tomorrow
[08:45] <robert_ancell> ok, will do
[08:45] <seb128> robert_ancell: it's just the filename randomization which is not random enough
[08:46] <seb128> it cames with several time the same filename for different track easily
[08:46] <seb128> thanks
[08:46] <seb128> I will add some bugs today to the milestoned list so feel free to watch that list daily too if you want to pick on new jaunty bugs to fix
[08:47] <robert_ancell> seb128: question regarding .deb bug 39812 - is there anything else that can be asked to work out what failed?
[08:48] <seb128> robert_ancell: well if the crash happened only one the odd are that either gconftool-2 or scrollkeeper-update crashed
[08:49] <seb128> that happens sometime but never when you try to valgrind it or not often enough for that
[08:49] <robert_ancell> seb128: would that be logged anywhere?
[08:49] <seb128> no
[08:49] <seb128> the scrollkeeper-update bugs usually seems to be corruptions
[08:49] <seb128> we have the libc stacktraces but that's not useful
[08:49] <seb128> we would need a valgrind log
[08:50] <seb128> some of those issues are also local corruptions, faulty ram or disk errors
[08:50] <seb128> those bugs are either clear issues or weird cases
[08:50] <seb128> don't focus on weird cases
[08:50] <robert_ancell> seb128: so what to do?  Close out?
[08:50] <seb128> that one is closed yes
[08:51] <seb128> I usually ask if that happens every time, if "sudo apt-get -f install" still trigger the bug
[08:51] <seb128> and close the bug if it doesn't saying that was a glitch and that we lack informations to debug it
[08:52] <seb128> that's not optimal so if you have a better idea on how to debug those or ask for details feel free to do it ;-)
[08:55] <robert_ancell> no, I have no ideas (except it would be nice if there was some more loggin)
[08:55] <seb128> indeed
[08:55] <seb128> that's probably not a priority for jaunty now
[08:55] <seb128> the rush is on fixing user visible issues
[08:56] <seb128> but we should work on that next cycle
[08:57] <robert_ancell> seb128: another bug question - there are number of bugs like bug 212629 where the issue affects multiple ubuntu packages - how do you stop it affecting a package? For instance this bug was opened against vinagre, then linked to vino so it doesn't really affect vinagre now
[08:58] <seb128> robert_ancell: usually better to change the component than opening a new task
[08:58] <seb128> robert_ancell: just mark the vinagre task invalid if there 2 tasks and only one is correct
[08:58] <robert_ancell> ok
[09:00] <robert_ancell> seb128: calling it a night here, any requests?  I'll try and find some meatier bugs tomorrow
[09:02] <seb128> robert_ancell: no, don't spend too much time on side issues but look at the milestoned bugs and help triaging if you can ;-)
[09:02] <robert_ancell> later all
[09:12] <seb128> james_w: hey, congrats you have broken gnome-panel ;-)
[09:12] <mvo> asac: python-xpcom is not installable, is that something we care about?
[09:14] <seb128> james_w: it's only on NX setups so no real worry, I commented on the upstream bug about that
[09:14] <james_w> ah, good to know, thanks
[09:15] <james_w> I assume we'll give it a few days to improve the patch, and then revert if necessary?
[09:15] <seb128> james_w: right
[09:15] <james_w> cool, thanks
[09:16] <seb128> np, thanks for the work on the bug ;-)
[09:29] <asac> mvo: no
[09:29] <asac> pitti: actually should be removed from archive together with all xul 1.8
[09:30] <asac> i asked lool about mobile-basic-flash, he said they dont need it. i will reconfirm that  now ;)
[09:30] <asac> oh lool is here ;) ^^
[09:56] <asac> pitti: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bugs/352968
[10:16] <pitti> asac: I see; the archive admins will care for that, thanks
[10:17] <asac> thx
[10:55] <Ng> re the indicator applet, on all the other jaunty machines in the office people seem to get a little panel applet with an envelope in it. I don't (having added it to the panel). Is that because I'm using empathy and not pidgin, so nothing is talking to it so it's staying hidden? or should I file a bug?
[10:56] <pitti> Ng: it's meant to appear when pidgin or evolution are running
[10:56] <Ng> fair enough. I'll wait for the future to catch up with me and be Empathy ;)
[10:56] <Ng> thanks ;)
[10:56] <pitti> heh, no problem
[10:59] <asac> so tracker is still completely broken?
[10:59] <asac> i told him to index one folder only
[11:00] <asac> that folder has only one file in it
[11:00] <asac> still it indexes all the time :(
[11:00] <asac> and no info given what its currently indexing either (e.g. no mouse hover info)
[11:01] <seb128> asac: open bugs on launchpad, upstream is tracking issues there
[11:01] <asac> ok. those appeared to be so obvious that i wondered if its maintained at all ;)
[11:01] <asac> is anyone using tracker here? or am i alone?
[11:02] <seb128> I don't, I don't think it does anything useful
[11:02] <seb128> and it does create io load
[11:02] <asac> seb128: do we install it by default still?
[11:02] <seb128> no
[11:02] <asac> ok
[11:04] <seb128> bryce: could you comment on why you think bug #337926 is ct-rev?
[11:05] <chrisccoulson> asac - i used to use tracker but I stopped using it in Jaunty as my machine grinds to a halt when it's indexing
[11:08] <bryce> seb128: insufficient explanation why it was assigned in the first place
[11:08] <bryce> esp. with bugs that are med prior, you really need to justify why you assign to me, when there are so many high prio X bugs that need attention
[11:09] <asac> chrisccoulson: yes. i think the problem is that its indexing full HOME ... no matter what
[11:09] <asac> filed bug 353008
[11:09] <bryce> at this stage, even with high prio bugs, I am focusing my priorities on ones that have patches or for which a patch is pretty easy to figure out.
[11:10] <asac> also bug 353010
[11:10] <seb128> bryce_: it basically makes vnc unusable for synaptic users in jaunty apparently
[11:10] <seb128> *shrug*
[11:10] <chrisccoulson> asac - interesting, i'll try that when i get home.
[11:11] <chrisccoulson> i normally use tracker to index my entire home folder, so i didn't notice that
[11:11] <asac> chrisccoulson: yeah. but even that is most likely just doing something wrong
[11:11] <asac> i looked at statistics and even though it indexed for 3 days now (the folder with 1 file)
[11:11] <asac> i only have a few files indexed
[11:12] <asac> so it definitly makes a lot of noise for nothing
[11:12] <asac> fixing that might also make indexing HOME better
[11:12] <chrisccoulson> that definately sounds like something is wrong
[11:12] <seb128> chrisccoulson: btw want to do the tracker update?
[11:12] <asac> i think we want a desktop indexer at some point ;)
[11:12] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i can work on that
[11:12] <seb128> chrisccoulson: there is a new bug fix version, debian did update already
[11:12] <seb128> chrisccoulson: thanks!
[11:12] <asac> its a shame that it became worse since we first tried to get it installed by default
[11:13] <asac> hmm
[11:13] <bryce> seb128: honestly I think there are worse X bugs...
[11:13] <asac> chrisccoulson: if you need a sponsor let me know ;)
[11:13] <seb128> bryce: right, not a reason to drop the bug on the ground though
[11:13] <bryce> seb128: however if y'all uncover a patch I'd be happy to put it in.
[11:13] <chrisccoulson> asac - for me, i don't think it's entirely a tracker issue. anything that involves any moderate disk IO on my machine grinds it to a halt, to the point that the mouse cursor stutters and pauses for several seconds at a time
[11:14] <seb128> bryce: not likely I'm not using synaptic, would "downgrade the synaptic xorg package to the intrepid version" do? ;-)
[11:14] <bryce> seb128: how does "unassign myself" == "drop the bug on the ground"??
[11:14] <asac> chrisccoulson: yeah, but tracker infinitely grinding doesnt make things better ... even for your IO issues ;)
[11:14] <seb128> bryce: well that's what I meant ct-rev to mean == "not really something we care about"
[11:14] <chrisccoulson> i agree :)
[11:14] <asac> seb128: want something to smile?
[11:14] <asac> seb128: http://www.sofaraway.org/ubuntu/tmp/karma-seb128.png ;)
[11:14] <seb128> asac: always ;-)
[11:15] <seb128> lol
[11:15] <asac> somehow makes all your 24/7 bug work voiud
[11:15] <asac> but still funny
[11:15] <asac> even me got a boost : http://www.sofaraway.org/ubuntu/tmp/karma-asac.png
[11:15] <pitti> ??
[11:15] <seb128> asac: they count all the translations updates for the uploads you do
[11:15] <asac> pitti: look at the ridiculous translation karma everbody gets for uploads
[11:15] <pitti> that's a bug
[11:16] <asac> seb128: noticed that ;)
[11:16] <asac> obviously yes ;)
[11:16] <asac> (bug)
[11:16] <seb128> asac: I'm still beating you on the karma level so that's good :-P
[11:16] <asac> damn ...
[11:16]  * asac searches for new tricks
[11:17] <seb128> the answer tracker seems to pay a lot too
[11:17] <asac> let me reupload nm-applet like 100 times ;)
[11:17] <asac> seb128: yeah. your answer work seems to carry fruits
[11:17] <bryce> true glory only comes from bug tracker karma ;-)
[11:17] <asac> do you just move everything thats stupid to answer tracker?
[11:18] <asac> bryce: previously true glory also came from translations
[11:18] <asac> you had to translate like 100k strings to get 30k karma ;)
[11:18] <seb128> asac: yes
[11:18] <asac> now you upload gnome apps and get a massive boost ;)
[11:18] <seb128> asac: bugs which are "nautilus doesn't work please fix it" -> answer tracker
[11:19] <asac> seb128: i always feel a bit reluctant about doing that because i feel like i should actually make a real question out of it
[11:19] <asac> and often its mostly like "nothing works here, help!"
[11:19] <asac> but maybe i should just convert those things too
[11:19] <seb128> asac: days only have 24 hours and I get enough good quality bugs to be busy during those
[11:20] <asac> seb128: do you follow how well those "stupid" bugs get resolved after making questions out of them?
[11:20] <seb128> there is no point to keep noise there
[11:20] <seb128> no, I just ignore those
[11:20] <asac> ;)
[11:20] <seb128> the answer tracker guys manage to bounce that back as a bug if they figure that's one
[11:20] <seb128> otherwise I let them deal with answering to users
[11:20] <seb128> enough real bug emails to read
[11:21] <asac> seb128: can someone make bugs out of them again?
[11:21] <seb128> yes
[11:21] <asac> i think i had questions that suddenly reappeared as bugs
[11:21] <seb128> there is a convert to bug button there
[11:21] <asac> ok so thats normal
[11:21] <seb128> the same way there is a convert to question on the bug page
[11:21] <asac> seb128: can the reporter do that?
[11:21] <seb128> I think so
[11:22] <asac> ok thats explains it
[11:22] <asac> so convert to question is still not the "push into sink where reporter cannot come back from again"
[11:28] <asac> chrisccoulson: are you doing bug triage on tracker a bit too?
[11:28] <asac> chrisccoulson: almost all crashes are still private ... not sure if upstream sees them
[11:28] <seb128> asac: upstream is doing but they will probably not no
[11:29] <asac> chrisccoulson: we should at least open them up for upstream ... or subscribe upstream
[11:29] <seb128> I expect most can be marked public, we just need to do that on a regular basis
[11:29] <asac> maybe adding "tracker" project part would make them open for them?
[11:29] <seb128> shame that we don't get emails about apport-crash bugs
[11:30] <asac> seb128: right. i am currently looking for someone who could do that regularly ;)
[11:30] <asac> agree. emails would be nice to trigger bug triage interrupts
[11:30] <seb128> asac: tracker has been mostly rewritten this year, work paid by nokia apparently
[11:30] <seb128> asac: the current team is eager to fix the issue we have too
[11:30] <asac> do we have that rewrite?
[11:30] <seb128> yes
[11:30] <seb128> that 0.6.9n
[11:30] <seb128> that's 0.6.9n
[11:30] <asac> hmm. so maybe thats the reason it appears like a regression to me
[11:31] <seb128> well there is people paid to work full time on it I think
[11:31] <seb128> so just make sure to open bugs
[11:31] <seb128> they rolled a new bug fix version some days ago
[11:31] <seb128> and they told me they watch launchpad to fix issues reported tehre
[11:31] <asac> i dont have time for more bug work ;) ... i can do that sporadically, but not reliably ;)
[11:31] <seb128> right
[11:31] <asac> seb128: thats great. (e.g. that they use launchpad)
[11:31] <seb128> I mean if it doesn't work for you don't hesitate to open a bug
[11:32] <asac> do they look at ubuntu packages or only "tracker" tasks?
[11:32] <seb128> the ubuntu package I think
[11:32] <asac> we really have to get crashes out of bug DB imo. if they are anonymized we can just open up and remove coredump after a month or so
[11:33] <seb128> yeah
[11:33] <bryce> well, it's after 3:30 in the morning, I've been working on bugs since 9am.  Wife says it's time to go to bed.
[11:33] <asac> bryce: sleep is for the weak ;)
[11:33] <seb128> bryce: looks like a deserved to get sleep indeed ;-)
[11:34] <seb128> *you*
[11:34] <pitti> bryce: ugh, still awake?
[11:34] <bryce> asac: I'll tell my wife that
[11:34] <seb128> bryce: 'night
[11:34]  * pitti hugs bryce
[11:34] <asac> bryce: the problem about huge bug batches is that every mail you send triggers about 3 replies ;)
[11:34] <asac> so if you sleep you will have a hard time to stay on top
[11:34] <bryce> pitti: sorry I didn't get to the patch you pointed out; it's in the queue though.  Will get to it tomorrow.
[11:34] <asac> bryce: sleep well ;)
[11:34] <pitti> bryce: which patch?
[11:35] <bryce> um... *rummage*
[11:35] <pitti> bryce: btw, I'll update my PPA with the watermark fix again, it got shadowed by your ubuntu4
[11:35] <pitti> I hope I'll get some more testing feedback soon
[11:35] <bryce> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19304
[11:35] <pitti> bryce: oh, I assigned that to me in Ubuntu
[11:35] <pitti> bryce: I updated the ubuntu bug and called for testing
[11:36] <bryce> ah ok great
[11:36] <pitti> bryce: I can handle that if you want me to
[11:36] <bryce> sure, that'd be a help
[11:36] <pitti> (have a test package in ppa)
[11:36] <pitti> bryce: sleep well! great work
[11:36]  * bryce --> Zzz
[11:39] <chrisccoulson> hi asac, i haven't been working on tracker specifically, but I can dedicate some time to go through some of the old bug reports
[11:40] <asac> chrisccoulson: do you have access to crashes?
[11:40] <asac> chrisccoulson: i am mostly concerned about the crashes ... that they get opened up
[11:40] <asac> chrisccoulson: if you want i can give you a python script that removes CoreDump and open ups
[11:40] <chrisccoulson> tbh, a lot of the old crashers can probably be closed. the codebase has changed significantly between 0.6.6 and 0.6.90 and probably makes a lot of them obsolete
[11:40] <chrisccoulson> i can access the crashers, so i can probably go through some of them later
[11:41] <seb128> we should autoclose all the < 0.6.90 crashers
[11:41] <asac> chrisccoulson: yeah thats true. crashers are usually only useless if done in a timely fashion ... but we should take care that that happens in future at least
[11:41] <seb128> asking to try again in jaunty saying it has been rewritten
[11:41] <asac> s/only useless/only useful/
[11:41] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i think we should probably close the old crashers now too
[11:41] <seb128> that's for tracker
[11:41] <chrisccoulson> i can maybe do some of that over my lunch break
[11:42] <seb128> I think we should also autoclose all the apport-crash bugs reported before hardy and which didn't get an update since they have been opened too
[11:42] <seb128> we have so much useless cruft there
[11:44] <davmor2> indicator applet keeps losing evo.  When I use alltray on evo
[11:47] <chrisccoulson> davmor2 - bug 345599?
[11:50] <davmor2> chrisccoulson: no applet doesn't disappear only evolutions entry in it.
[11:50] <davmor2> chrisccoulson: pidgin's stays in
[11:52] <chrisccoulson> might still be the same bug though. for me, they both disappear eventually, causing the applet to hide
[11:52] <davmor2> chrisccoulson: Ah right thanks
[11:57] <asac> mvo: do you know if scott richie is online somewhere/somtimes?
[12:00] <pitti> asac: YokoZar
[12:00] <pitti> in #ubuntu-devel
[12:02] <asac> cool. great
[12:18] <mvo> asac: yes, what pitti said
[12:24]  * pitti hugs seb128 for nailing bug 325973
[12:50] <mvo> seb128: when update-manager did its auto-launch dance, what gconf entry has "regular_auto_launch_interval" ?
[12:57]  * seb128 backs from lunch
[12:57]  * seb128 hugs pitti
[12:57] <seb128> mvo: no idea I didn't snapshot the system, it's set to 7 right now
[13:02] <mvo> seb128: but its very likely that it was 7 then too, you did not change it in between
[13:02] <mvo> ?
[13:02] <seb128> no I didn't change anything
[13:02] <seb128> I'm acting normal user on this box
[13:02] <seb128> davidbarth: hi
[13:02] <seb128> davidbarth: you forgot to push your notify-osd changes?
[13:03] <seb128> mvo: ahah, got the bug again!
[13:03] <seb128> mvo: I set the key to 0, used synaptic and
[13:03] <seb128> (update-notifier:8262): update-DEBUG: is_package_system_locked: 0
[13:03] <seb128> (update-notifier:8262): update-DEBUG: interval_days from gconf: 0
[13:03] <seb128> (update-notifier:8262): update-DEBUG: update_apt_is_running: 0
[13:03] <seb128> that's "update-notifier --debug-updates"
[13:03] <mvo> seb128: by setting it to 0 this is expected, it will auto-launch every time something is there to update
[13:04] <seb128> mvo: well should it run after each package installed in synaptic?
[13:04] <seb128> mvo: I don't do an apt-get update or anything
[13:04] <seb128> mvo: the situation was similar the other day, the value was 7 and I had 7 days of non updates
[13:05] <seb128> mvo: it if I use synaptic 10 times today I will get update-manager auto opening 10 times
[13:10] <seb128> re
[13:10] <seb128> mvo: what debug flag should I be using?
[13:11] <mvo> seb128: --debug-updates --debug-inotify
[13:11] <seb128> ok, so I run it, update-manager starts, I close it
[13:11] <seb128> until there that's what I expect
[13:11] <seb128> now I open synaptic because I want to update jockey
[13:12] <seb128> I install jockey
[13:12] <seb128> update-manager opens again
[13:12] <seb128> is that expected?
[13:12] <mvo> seb128: that is with auto-open interval set to "0" ? then yes. in your 7 days case (yesterday) it should have noticed that dpkg was run and should not auto-open
[13:12] <seb128> bah
[13:12] <seb128> so that is not a good way to simulate the situation
[13:12] <seb128> what does it compare the 7 days to?
[13:13]  * seb128 kicks bzr too, stupid thing
[13:13] <seb128> stop telling me to use bzr upgrade, I did it 15 times now
[13:13] <mvo> seb128: gconf timestamp when u-m was run, /var/log/dpkg.log /var/log/apt/term.log
[13:13] <mvo> mtime and ctime
[13:13] <mvo> whatever is newer
[13:14] <mvo> that is what puzzles me :/
[13:14] <mvo> that it shuld not happen (but then, bugs never should)
[13:31] <seb128> mvo: is there a way to change the ctime?
[13:32] <pitti> seb128: you want to change the ctime of a file?
[13:32] <seb128> pitti: yes
[13:32] <seb128> touch change the mtime and atime but not the ctime apparently
[13:32] <pitti> touch --time=ctime -r reference-file file
[13:33] <seb128> what is reference-file?
[13:33] <pitti> a file which has the time you want to set "file" to
[13:34] <pitti> seb128: if you need an arbitrary time, I'd recomend python -c 'import os; os.utime()'
[13:34] <pitti> ah no, doens't change ctime
[13:35] <fta2> hi, my syslog is flooded with messages from indicator-applet, is that expected? http://paste.ubuntu.com/142020/
[13:36] <seb128> hey fta2, you only join this channel to report bugs nowadays ;-)
[13:37] <seb128> I would say that's a bug, open it on launchpad
[13:37] <chrisccoulson> fta2 - bug 346513
[13:37] <fta2> seb128, i'm always there as 'fta'. all my other clones are bug reporters ;)
[13:38] <fta2> chrisccoulson, ok, thanks
 seb128, i'm always there as 'fta'. all my other clones are bug reporters ;)
[13:38] <seb128> ah ;-)
[13:39] <fta2> i'm fta only on my main desktop at home
[13:47] <fta2> asac, what did you do with your gtk2 patch for ia32-libs? any progress?
[13:48] <fta2> asac, i'm still getting the infamous Gtk-Message: Failed to load module "canberra-gtk-module": /usr/lib/gtk-2.0/modules/libcanberra-gtk-module.so: wrong ELF class: ELFCLASS64
[13:48] <asac> let me check if i still have that
[13:48]  * asac hopes he didnt revert it to hack on something else
[13:50] <chrisccoulson> pitti - re bug 351122 - remember that the latest version of glib doesn't convert "%U" in to a URI now where a local path name exists (it substitutes with the local path name instead)
[13:50] <chrisccoulson> i don't know if that messes up your fix, as I can't test it yet
[13:50] <chrisccoulson> but that behaviour is different from intrepid
[13:51] <pitti> chrisccoulson: right, that's why I reopened it
[13:52] <chrisccoulson> cool - i wasn't sure if you were aware of that or not, and i wasn't sure if that's what was causing the regression
[14:01] <seb128> hey rickspencer3
[14:01] <rickspencer3> hey seb128
[14:02] <seb128> vuntz: do you know how the dbus session bus is started on opensuse? do you let gnome-session start it?
[14:03] <pitti> hey rickspencer3, good morning
[14:03]  * pitti crosses another 4 bugs from ReleaseStatus
[14:09] <kenvandine_wk> pitti: woot!
[14:39] <mvo> seb128: I just checked, the code that checks the dpkg and apt log stamps was added 1 march - if the update-notifier running was older than that, that would explain the launching you have seen. I just used a little python script to unset my gconf launch time and the mtimes of the logs, but I did not get the auto launch madness that you had, it correctly read the timestamps from the logs
[14:40] <seb128> mvo: I've not been able to change the ctime to test, I might play with hwclock later
[14:43] <mvo> seb128: I hacked it to set ctime to a very old date iinside update-notifier (os.utime seems to just change mtime). but the effect should be the same
[14:44] <mvo> seb128: so no luck, sorry :(
[14:44] <seb128> mvo: don't worry that's a small issue
[14:45] <seb128> mvo: I'm sure I updated before going to London and I stopped the desktop the week I was not there
[14:45] <seb128> so I was running the mar 1 version or never for sure
[14:45] <seb128> I set it to 1 day now
[14:45] <seb128> I will try again tomorrow
[14:48] <mvo> seb128: maybe you can set the --debug options in the autostart file? so that those are captured in any case?
[14:48] <seb128> will do
[14:50] <mvo> thanks
[14:55] <seb128> pitti: I updated notify-osd to 0.9.8, let me know if I screwed again the bzr ;-)
[14:57] <seb128> pitti: the amd64 retracer crashed again on "KeyError: 'Stacktrace'", I removed the lock I think the retry worked yesterday without untagging
[14:58] <mpt> rickspencer3, good morning, do you have time for a call about package management?
[15:31] <rickspencer3> mpt: I will later
[15:32] <rickspencer3> prolly in an hour or so
[15:32] <mpt> rickspencer3, ok, I'll ask again in an hour :-)
[15:35] <pitti> seb128: hm, since yesterday or today, gnome-panel hangs for me on every startup; I need to open a terminal and killall gnome-panel
[15:36] <pitti> is that known?
[15:36] <seb128> no
[15:36] <seb128> or there is a similar bug but no useful informations there
[15:37] <pitti> ok, I'll give it some more attention then
[15:37] <seb128> get a stacktrace if possible
[15:37] <seb128> the only change yesterday was a patch to better handle multiple monitor situations
[15:39] <pitti> or it's indicator-applet causing a hang or so
[15:44] <pitti> seb128: notify-osd> looks fine! I usually add the changelog when merging from trunk, not in the commit after, but that's just nitpicking
[15:44] <seb128> pitti: ok good ;-)
[15:44] <seb128> pitti: thanks again for the explanations yesterday
[16:07] <dobey> pitti: hey!
[16:08] <dobey> pitti: do you know if it's sensible/possible for a distutils Command to return something from run()?
[16:08] <dobey> or is it supposed to return None always?
[16:16] <pitti> dobey: I don't think it makes sense to return something; you can save internal state in the command object, though
[16:16] <dobey> pitti: well i'm just wondering how to handle failures of things like pylint, pydoctor, unittest, trial test, etc...
[16:17] <dobey> pylint is a more special case i think though
[16:19] <pitti> dobey: raise DistutilsExecError perhaps?
[16:19] <pitti> or DistutilsSetupError
[16:19] <pitti> or a simple assert will probably do as well
[16:20] <kenvandine_wk> pitti: can you sponsor indicate-python for me?
[16:20] <kenvandine_wk> bug 344936
[16:23] <pitti> kenvandine_wk: can you please subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors and me? I'm quite busy ATM
[16:23] <pitti> I'll try to do it ASAP
[16:23] <kenvandine_wk> sure
[16:24] <kenvandine_wk> i already subscribed ubuntu-universe-sponsors
[16:24] <kenvandine_wk> will add you
[16:24] <kenvandine_wk> thx!
[16:55] <mpt> argh
[16:56] <mpt> rickspencer3, there was one more thing I needed to discuss
[16:56] <rickspencer3> mpt: ok, I have a call in 3 mins :(
[16:56] <rickspencer3> after that?
[16:57] <mpt> rickspencer3, and that is that either bug 333284 or bug 353195 really really should be fixed for 9.04
[16:57] <mpt> because otherwise, Update Manager grabs focus when you're running Compiz.
[16:57] <rickspencer3> mpt: ok
[16:58] <mpt> Can you arrange that?
[16:58] <rickspencer3> those are foundation bugs, mvo has those
[17:00] <rickspencer3> mpt: I'll check it out when I get a chance
[17:03] <mpt> thanks
[17:07] <mvo> mpt, rickspencer3: sorry that I have not acted on those yet, there is a bunch of upgrade problems (mostly with python) that also need attention. and especially the compiz stacking fix is not trivial
[17:07] <rickspencer3> mvo: we know you're working hard in priority order
[17:10]  * pitti whistles and ditches another desktop RC bug
[17:11]  * kenvandine_wk -> lunch
[17:13] <seb128> pitti: which one did you tackle now? ;-)à
[17:13] <pitti> bug 349621
[17:13] <pitti> apparently an easy one
[17:14] <pitti> but I was working on apport anyway
[17:14] <pitti> and that one drove the kernel guys crazy
[17:14]  * pitti -> dinner
[17:14] <pitti> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus -> 6 to go, go desktop team!
[17:15] <pitti> I updated the list this morning with everything desktop-ish from jaunty/+bugs, so it should be fairly complete
[17:15] <crevette> http://tuxradar.com/content/ubuntu-rewrite-linux-kernel-using-mono :)
[17:16] <seb128> pitti: I think you can drop the tracker one from there since we don't install it by default
[17:17] <seb128> pitti: and chriscoulson should get the new tracker packaged soon
[17:53] <lool> asac: I mailed ubuntu-mobile to ask whether anybody was still using MBF; nobody replied...
[17:54] <lool> asac: I think you can drop it like tomorrow or in two days
[17:54] <lool> asac: Thanks for pinging about this BTW
[17:54] <asac> lool: yeah. already filed the removal bug for xulrunner and subscribed -archive
[17:54] <asac> guess we should add mobile-basic-flash there too
[17:54] <lool> asac: TY
[17:55] <asac> bug 352968
[17:56] <asac> lool: ok added mbf
[17:58] <lool> asac: Thanks
[18:09] <asac> lool: whats the support status of mbf in hardy?
[18:09] <asac> lool: can you find someone to check the xul 1.8 packages we have in https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mozilla-security/+archive/ppa
[18:09] <asac> for hardy
[18:09] <lool> Thanks
[18:09] <asac> otherwise those will just go out
[18:09] <lool> asac: Please push as soon as ready; we're only supporting it via a PPA
[18:09] <asac> ok
[18:10] <lool> asac: Frankly, I don't see myself having the time to look at this in the coming days; too many issues to look at for final
[18:10] <lool> asac: Could you shoot me an email about that?
[19:16] <dobey> pitti: still around?
[20:54] <seb128> Ampelbein: hi, do you want to do a lib update?
[20:55] <Ampelbein> seb128: hi. sure, if you got the nerve to stand some nagging questions by me ;-)
[20:55] <seb128> Ampelbein: ok, so http://download.gnome.org/sources/totem-pl-parser/2.26/totem-pl-parser-2.26.1.tar.gz is for you
[20:56] <Ampelbein> ok
[21:17] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - just doing the tracker merge now. should we drop the patch that disables indexing by default, as it's not on the default install now is it? users who install it manually probably expect it to index without having to explicitly enable it
[21:18] <seb128> chrisccoulson: no, people upgrading still have it installed
[21:18] <seb128> we need to sort that but it's late for a such change
[21:18] <seb128> next cycle
[21:18] <chrisccoulson> ah, ok
[21:18] <chrisccoulson> i'll leave it in for now then
[21:21] <seb128> thanks
[21:21] <chrisccoulson> you're welcome
[21:22] <Ampelbein> seb128: 353412
[21:22] <seb128> Ampelbein: thanks
[21:22] <Ampelbein> seb128: erm bug #353412
[21:22] <Ampelbein> no problem.
[21:29] <Ampelbein> seb128: what library do you want me to update?
[21:29] <seb128> Ampelbein: that was it
[21:30] <Ampelbein> hmm. that was not too complicated.
[21:30] <seb128> indeed
[21:30] <seb128> did you check if they changed symbols?
[21:34] <Ampelbein> i ran check-symbols totem-pl-parser
[21:35] <seb128> ok good
[21:37] <Ampelbein> if a symbol has changed, how do i find out what package depends on it?
[21:37] <Ampelbein> do i just go through the rdepends of the library-file?
[21:37] <seb128> to do what?
[21:37] <seb128> if there is a new symbol the shlibs needs to be updated
[21:37] <Ampelbein> to see what packages could be broken.
[21:38] <seb128> if they broke ABI the soname need to be changed and the library binary package name too
[21:38] <seb128> apt-cache rdepends library
[21:38] <seb128> nothing breaks
[21:38] <seb128> if they break compatibility the soname has to change
[21:38] <seb128> the old version stay available
[21:38] <seb128> and we rebuild things against the new one
[21:40] <seb128> lut huats
[21:41] <Ampelbein> ah, ok. i think i understood the general way to go. but i will need to read a bit more about shlibs.
[21:41] <huats> hello seb128
[21:41] <huats> how are yuou ?
[21:41] <seb128> good, you?
[21:41] <seb128> how are SL?
[21:41] <huats> good and very tired :)
[21:41] <huats> SL are great
[21:41] <huats> lots of people
[21:42] <seb128> how is the ubuntu stand? ;-)
[21:42] <huats> and lots of people interested in ubuntu :)
[21:42] <huats> the ubuntu stand is GREAT
[21:42] <huats> and the ubuntu-fr one is quite nice too ;)
[21:43] <seb128> excellent
[21:43] <huats> yep
[21:44] <didrocks> hi seb128 :)
[21:44] <seb128> lut didrocks
[21:45] <huats> seb128: don't bother to ask didrocks how the ubuntu-fr booth is... we barely seem him....
[21:45] <huats> ;)
[21:45] <didrocks> huats: you are a liar, you are always slackering in other booths :)
[21:45] <huats> seb128: you can ask anyone... you know me...
[21:46] <didrocks> just give me two minutes, that I can kill hyperair first who just drop one of my patch…
[21:50] <seb128> didrocks: so you really meant it ;-)
[21:50] <huats> :)
[21:51] <didrocks> seb128: excellent :-)
[21:52] <didrocks> I'm sure he read this and just disconnect his computer with the cable :p
[21:54] <Ampelbein> seb128: strange. when doing the check-symbols in my pbuilder-chroot it gives no changes. From my live-system it gives one dropped symbol: http://paste.ubuntu.com/142332/
[22:09] <Ampelbein> seb128: will this be a problem? [22:54] <Ampelbein> seb128: strange. when doing the check-symbols in my pbuilder-chroot it gives no changes. From my live-system it gives one dropped symbol: http://paste.ubuntu.com/142332/
[22:13] <seb128> Ampelbein: that seems a non public symbol and not an issue
[22:13] <seb128> Ampelbein: ie it's not defined in the .h installed
[22:13] <Ampelbein> ok, thanks.
[22:18] <dennda> Is the indicator applet introduced in Jaunty able to keep track of new mails in thunderbird? Looking at the source I wasn't that much enlighted
[22:20] <rickspencer3> dennda: the applet is a container, any app can use it
[22:21] <rickspencer3> I suspect that asac is working on tb integration, but I'm not 100% certain
[22:22] <dennda> rickspencer3: What must the app do?
[22:22] <rickspencer3> dennda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotificationDevelopmentGuidelines
[22:22] <rickspencer3> it's real simple
[22:22] <rickspencer3> that link shows how to use notify-osd
[22:23] <rickspencer3> let me see if I can get you a link on indicator-applet integration
[22:23] <dennda> well that's some change that needs to be hacked into thunderbird, correct?
[22:24] <asac> dennda: the idea is to make a generic indicator service in xulrunner that can be used by tbird or other xul mail/messaging apps
[22:25] <asac> thunderbird would then need some hacking to properly use that
[22:25] <dennda> Yeah
[22:25] <dennda> so something for 9.10
[22:25] <asac> yes
[22:25] <dennda> or a 3rd party package
[22:25] <asac> definitly not before tbird 3 ;)
[22:26] <asac> upstream will probably not get that before 3.1; but if we have a good solution (or a good intermediate one), we want to pick that to tbird 3
[22:26] <dennda> would be great...
[22:26] <dennda> because right now that indicator applet just displays pidgins messages, and that's kinda pointless
[22:26] <dennda> (and I can't use evolution)
[22:27] <rickspencer3> dennda: there are a few other apps that use it as well, but missing tb is painful
[22:27] <asac> yes. the indicator framework came too late to migrate many apps on it.
[22:27] <rickspencer3> lots of people prefer it as their mail client
[22:27] <asac> i would have loved to fix my preferred messenter
[22:27] <asac> too (gajim)
[22:27] <seb128> and xchat-gnome
[22:27] <asac> ++
[22:27] <Nafallo> GAJIM!
[22:27] <Nafallo> :-D
[22:28] <asac> Nafallo: cool. so we can work together on that ;)
[22:28] <asac> or at least poke upstream from two sides ;)
[22:29] <Nafallo> asac: they've been poked from a 3rd party, and are not interested :-(
[22:29] <dennda> if it's really that simple it shouldn't be to hard to hack it into gajim...
[22:29] <dennda> for the ubuntu package
[22:30] <asac> dennda: last time i looked we lacked python wrappers ;)
[22:30] <asac> so that would be the first step
[22:30] <dennda> ah
[22:30] <dennda> ok
[22:30] <dennda> you should have those anyways...
[22:30] <Nafallo> yeah. the applet didn't look very simple when I checked :-)
[22:30] <rickspencer3> asac: kenvandine_wk and tedg created python wrapper for indicator-applet
[22:30] <rickspencer3> it looked very very easy
[22:30] <Nafallo> oooh
[22:30] <Nafallo> hmmm
[22:30] <dobey> oh man
[22:30] <rickspencer3> not sure where it is
[22:31] <asac> rickspencer3: creating them is easy enough
[22:31] <asac> we need them in the archive though
[22:31] <dobey> i wish i had time to write all the code that's in my head
[22:31] <asac> at best generated by indicator applet build or something
[22:31] <rickspencer3> I was going to say, I thought it was headed for universe, but not sure what happened
[22:31] <asac> ok
[22:32] <rickspencer3> dobey: keep in mind that both food and sleep can be replaced with coffee
[22:32] <asac> most likely fell off the radar due to overload ;)
[22:32] <rickspencer3> kenvandine_wk: ^^^ ?
[22:32] <dobey> rickspencer3: not really for me. i'm pretty much immune to caffeine
[22:32] <rickspencer3> or maybe the api wasn't "settled" enough
[22:32] <seb128> as asac would say, "sleep is for the weaks" ;-)
[22:33] <dobey> i drew some awesome mock-ups the other day though
[22:33] <dobey> on paper anyway
[22:33] <dobey> need to make real mock-ups
[22:34] <asac> dobey: mockups about what?
[22:34] <asac> about all the code you have in your head ? ;)
[22:34] <dobey> asac: part of it. better contacts UI
[22:35] <dobey> buddy list/address book stuff
[22:35] <jcastro> asac: Nafallo: there's a gwibber branch already consuming the m-i python stuff if you want to look at that
[22:35] <asac> jcastro: is that m-i python stuff in universe?
[22:36] <jcastro> not sure, I think kenvandine_wk knows
[22:36] <jcastro> I don't think it is yet
[22:36] <asac> Nafallo: why do you think gajim folks dont want m-i support? last time i submitted a patch they were quite friendly and open to new ideas ;)
[22:36] <asac> which was years ago though
[22:36] <dobey> jcastro: does that branch have the AIR rewrite too?
[22:36] <jcastro> dobey: no that was april fools
[22:37] <dobey> yeah i know
[22:37] <Nafallo> ehrm
[22:37] <Nafallo> oh
[22:37] <Nafallo> wow
[22:37] <Nafallo> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gajim/+bug/340213
[22:39] <Nafallo> asac: http://trac.gajim.org/ticket/4914
[22:40] <asac> kenvandine_wk: in the gajim bug you say you submitted the patch upstream ...  i dont see any patch there
[22:40] <asac> (nor in launchpad)
[22:40] <asac> or did you mean to say "Bug submitted upstream"?
[22:40] <Nafallo> asac: http://trac.gajim.org/attachment/ticket/4942/add-indicator-support.patch
[22:40] <asac> Nafallo: darn
[22:40] <asac> kenvandine_wk: nevermind
[22:41] <asac> i am officially web-site-blind
[22:41] <jcastro> 2 different tickets for some reason
[22:41] <asac> oh indeed. good catch
[22:41] <asac> that explains it
[22:43] <jcastro> I quite like gajim also
[22:44] <Nafallo> :-D
[22:44] <asac> its the best jabber client for sure
[22:44] <Nafallo> there is a reason I refuse to go away from it myself, and it's not only maintainership :-)
[22:45] <jcastro> it'd be nice if the look and feel were more gnomeish, like maybe a pidgin theme for it or something
[22:46] <asac> jcastro: which parts are not gnomish?
[22:46] <asac> status icons?
[22:47] <jcastro> yeah
[22:47] <Nafallo> jcastro: have you got "human" set still? ;-)
[22:47] <jcastro> yeah
[22:47] <jcastro> I guess it's mostly the status icons
[22:47] <Nafallo> jcastro: you can change those though... use the same as pidgin :-)
[22:48] <Nafallo> no. I mean gossip :-P
[22:49] <asac> seb128: can you poke firefox 3.5 through new ... its firefox-3.1 just that upstream bumped the version so we want to get that in before release (in order to being able to properly provide security updates)
[22:50] <asac> also thats universe
[22:51] <asac> we have the transition in -daily archive for a while. so its tested
[22:56] <seb128> asac: done
[22:56] <asac> many thanks
[22:56] <asac> given that lp is down for a few hours we will do the binaries tomorrow i guess ;)
[22:57] <seb128> asac: lp website down doesn't mean than soyuz and the datacenter are down
[22:57] <asac> yeah ;)
[22:58] <asac> but i cannot see if build has finished ;)
[22:58] <seb128> but I will probably be in bed before having the binaries available
[22:58] <seb128> I can as well get sleep if lp is down, can't triage bugs
[22:59] <asac> right. today sleeping is for the brave and honorous ... a sensible action actually ;)
[22:59] <seb128> ;-)
[23:00] <chrisccoulson> asac - i've just finished the tracker merge. how did you recreate this bug you were speaking about earlier? i can test it on my box now
[23:01] <asac> chrisccoulson: create a directory on Desktop
[23:01] <asac> put a file in it
[23:01] <asac> go to tracker preferences and only select that folder
[23:01] <chrisccoulson> thanks. i'll try that
[23:01] <asac> after restarting and all that ... it will start to index
[23:01] <asac> observe what the tooltip says (it never made sense to me)
[23:02] <asac> also check that the tracker-indexer goes made and consumes all cycles forever ;)
[23:03] <asac> mad
[23:04] <chrisccoulson> "Done: 87 of 2233"
[23:04] <chrisccoulson> lol
[23:04] <asac> tracker notification could deserve a good icon
[23:04] <asac> chrisccoulson: see what i mean
[23:04] <asac> chrisccoulson: so i think removing all the caches helps a bit
[23:04] <asac> i did that but then i ended up with indexer going mad
[23:05] <chrisccoulson> i might give that a go
[23:05] <asac> and the tooltip doesnt make more sense
[23:05] <chrisccoulson> but my machine is becoming barely useable now
[23:05] <asac> it still indexes 425 files
[23:05] <asac> but never gets further than 25 files for me
[23:05] <asac> chrisccoulson: my main complaint is really that i can nowhere see what its currently indexing
[23:06] <chrisccoulson> yeah, thats not very ideal
[23:06] <chrisccoulson> i don't really understand the tooltip at all. when you open the statistics window, it say something completely different
[23:07] <asac> its completely broken
[23:07] <asac> ;)
[23:07] <asac> thats my perception
[23:08] <asac> so two main issues: a) tracker indexes just indexes random things (doesnt honour pref); b) tracker-indexer seems to hang/loop on some files so it just consumes 100% of a core and never finishes
[23:08] <asac> unfortunately i dont know how to see which file its processing
[23:09] <asac> well i could i guess. but i didnt try to find out.
[23:09] <chrisccoulson> hmmmmm
[23:09] <chrisccoulson> i've just attached strace to tracker-indexer
[23:09] <asac> chrisccoulson: does your indexing show progress now?
[23:09] <asac> e.g. Done: 87 of 2233
[23:10] <chrisccoulson> its up to 1067
[23:10] <asac> are you at least at 88 now ;)?
[23:10] <asac> oh not bad
[23:10] <seb128> you have a tracker-status tool no?
[23:10] <asac> for me its at 23 of 435 for  minutes
[23:10] <asac> seb128: that isnt really verbose for me:
[23:10] <asac>  tracker-status -d
[23:10] <asac> Tracker status is 'Indexing'
[23:10] <asac> ;)
[23:11] <asac> -d == --detailed
[23:11] <chrisccoulson> ewww
[23:11] <chrisccoulson> it's spewing loads of stuff to a log file
[23:11] <asac> chrisccoulson: where?
[23:12] <chrisccoulson> i can see a timestamp being written over and over again in strace
[23:12] <chrisccoulson> the file is ~/..local/share/tracker/tracker-indexer.log
[23:12] <asac> ouch
[23:12] <asac> so most likely that doesnt exist at all ;)
[23:13] <chrisccoulson> the file is up to 4.9MB after a couple of minutes
[23:13] <asac> so its looping trying to flush a log queue or something ;)
[23:13] <chrisccoulson> probably
[23:13] <asac> chrisccoulson: err ... where do you have that file
[23:13] <chrisccoulson> looking at the strace, it doesn't seem to be touching much else
[23:14] <asac> i dont have ~/../local ;)
[23:14] <chrisccoulson> oops
[23:14] <chrisccoulson> ~/.local
[23:14] <chrisccoulson> my bad
[23:14] <asac> chrisccoulson: ok so its obvious
[23:14] <asac> i get "02 Apr 2009, 00:14:56: Tracker-Warning **: Could not store word 'jederzeit': with fatal error"
[23:14] <asac> so it definitly has problems with the output file or something
[23:15] <asac> and retries deliberately forever
[23:15] <chrisccoulson> thats what i see
[23:15] <chrisccoulson> the strace only shows this, looping over and over again: http://pastebin.com/m53730230
[23:15] <chrisccoulson> i haven't seen it do anything else, yet tracker-indexer is *supposedly* indexing and using a lot of CPU bandwidth too ;)
[23:16] <chrisccoulson> maybe there's a build option to stop it doing that
[23:17] <asac> err tracker_db_index_manager functions
[23:17] <asac> seem not to be defined in the source
[23:17] <asac> is that a separate package?
[23:17] <asac> found it
[23:17] <asac> blind me
[23:19] <asac> what is g_get_user_cache_dir ?
[23:19] <chrisccoulson> that's a glib function
[23:19] <chrisccoulson> it should return ~/.cache
[23:20] <asac> documentation says xdg dir
[23:20] <asac> i dont see anything like that in /etc/xdg
[23:21] <chrisccoulson> "Returns a base directory in which to store non-essential, cached data specific to particular user"
[23:21] <asac> i can read ;)
[23:21] <chrisccoulson> ;)
[23:21] <chrisccoulson> that should be ~/.cache according to the XDG spec, i think
[23:21] <asac> hmm
[23:22] <asac> yeah
[23:22] <asac> lets check if glib implements that
[23:23] <seb128> asac: http://standards.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/basedir-spec-0.6.html
[23:23] <seb128> asac: that's xdg's dir's spec
[23:23] <asac> so glib implements this correctly
[23:23] <asac> seb128: i know ;)
[23:23] <asac> i was just curious why i couldnt get it with xdg-user-dirs command
[23:23] <seb128> yes glib implement that spec correctly ;-)
[23:23] <asac> but glib does the right thing
[23:24] <seb128> xdg-user-dirs is to make localized folder for images, videos, etc
[23:24] <seb128> ie for user visible directories
[23:24] <asac> i would have hoped that they implement all dirs ;)
[23:24] <asac> but well
[23:24] <seb128> so your cache would change when you change locale?
[23:24] <seb128> or your config?
[23:24] <seb128> that would be weird
[23:25] <seb128> what is the point of translating an implement detail
[23:25] <asac> seb128: why does it need to be translated?
[23:25] <seb128> that would make it bug prone
[23:25] <asac> if thats the purpose of xdg-user-dirs i would hav enamed it xdg-l10n-dirs ;)
[23:25] <seb128> well you are the one saying all dirs should be in xdg-user-dirs
[23:25] <seb128> asac: it also let you customize the dirs to use for those
[23:26] <seb128> but again customize the .local or .cache naming would only make it less robust
[23:26] <asac> ok. so there is a difference for user dirs
[23:26] <asac> i see
[23:26] <seb128> for not real win
[23:26] <asac> i wante xdg-base-dirs  then ;)
[23:26] <asac> nevermind
[23:26] <seb128> yeah gotcha
[23:26] <dobey> well
[23:26] <seb128> we don't have that, read the spec ;-)
[23:26] <dobey> the xdg user dirs customization crack is supposed to allow for translating
[23:26] <asac> command line wrappers for xdg arent that bad imo
[23:27] <dobey> but eh, i don't think anyone actually takes the time to mess with that
[23:27] <asac> dobey: yeah. got that now
[23:27] <asac> not sure if having translated physical dirnames is really the way to go. i would think that apps like nautilus could provide a translated presentation ;)
[23:28] <asac> but if xdg thinks so, its fine.
[23:28] <asac> i assume that discussion was done before
[23:28] <dobey> i think it's rather pointless
[23:28] <dobey> i'd rather have it done in some way via a tag on the directory
[23:29] <dobey> like "this is my music dir" or "this is my porn dir"
[23:29] <seb128> asac: yeah, that has been discussed for over a year and both way had pro and con
[23:29] <seb128> asac: the "translate in the UI" would mean than any applications no using the glib api would see the english names
[23:30] <asac> well. atm all apps have to use xdg anyway. they could do the same for translating
[23:30] <seb128> well not really
[23:30] <seb128> you can browse the filesystem using any application
[23:30] <seb128> and the "Desktop" directory there will be the same name as in your UI
[23:31] <dobey> bash doesn't really deal well with translating directory names in the ui :)
[23:31] <seb128> you need to use the xdg functions if you want to know "what is the default video directory" for example
[23:31] <seb128> anyway it has been discussed for a long time
[23:31] <seb128> and they decided on this way
[23:31] <dobey> yes it has
[23:31] <asac> yeah.
[23:32] <asac> i think all this is pointless until we discuss tags and DB style file storage
[23:32] <asac> if that ever happens is of course in the limbo ;)
[23:32] <asac> good old trees probably wont go away for some time
[23:38] <asac> ok i will remove tracker for now again
[23:38] <asac> hope chrisccoulson finds out why the db cannot be written to
[23:38] <chrisccoulson> i'm wondering if this is something to with the fact that we build against sqlite
[23:38] <chrisccoulson> and debian don't
[23:38] <chrisccoulson> i might try the debian build and see if that does the same
[23:39] <asac> chrisccoulson: would be an option
[23:39] <asac> what does tracker do if its not using sqlite?
[23:39] <chrisccoulson> it uses qdbm i think
[23:40] <seb128> open an upstream bug
[23:40] <chrisccoulson> i'll try it with the default backend first
[23:41] <chrisccoulson> just to see
[23:41] <seb128> right
[23:41] <dobey>   Depends: libsqlite3-0
[23:41] <dobey> well it depends on it anyway :)
[23:41] <asac> dobey: thats auto generated
[23:41] <asac> so if we dont use it, it wont be there
[23:41] <asac> or is that on debian?
[23:41] <chrisccoulson> dobey - that's right. we pass a build option to make it build against sqlite for ubuntu
[23:41] <chrisccoulson> but this is not the default, and not what debian use
[23:41] <dobey> asac: no, why would i use debian? this is jaunty :)
[23:42] <dobey> chrisccoulson: ah ok
[23:42] <chrisccoulson> i shall have to try that tomorrow - it's getting late now
[23:43] <chrisccoulson> anyone know what dpput and dpget do?
[23:43] <chrisccoulson> on google, i only find references to qdbm
[23:46] <seb128> no
[23:47] <chrisccoulson> i'm going to build tracker against qdbm now. i'm starting to suspect that it's support for sqlite is broken
[23:48] <seb128> good that we don't install tracker by default in jaunty ;-)
[23:48] <chrisccoulson> it is
[23:48] <chrisccoulson> if the sqlite support is broken, then we have a dilemma
[23:49] <chrisccoulson> qdbm is in universe;)
[23:50] <seb128> yeah
[23:50] <seb128> but as said upstream seems to want to get the new version work on jaunty
[23:50] <seb128> so they might look quickly at the issue if somebody opens a bug
[23:50] <asac> chrisccoulson: can you please file it?
[23:51] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i'll do that.
[23:51] <asac> chrisccoulson: i think the info about the indexer warnings in log should be a good pointer for them
[23:51] <asac> thanks
[23:53] <seb128> ok time to sleep now
[23:53] <seb128> have a good night everybody
[23:53] <seb128> see you tomorrow