[03:58] <jbailey> fabbione: I have the kernel-package change done here locally.  I haven't a clue how to test it. =)
[03:59] <jbailey> I've tried running the postinst and preinst with the right arguments locally, but I have a feeling that it gets attacked by sed or something on its way into the kernel package.
[03:59] <jbailey> Leaving me with the impression that I don't smoke enough weed to do this hack without assistance.
[04:05] <jbailey> fabbione: Can you proof the changes I've made?  I've touched kernel/image.preinst, kernel/image.postinst and debian/changelog
[04:05] <jbailey> fabbione: I've put the files up on chinstrap.  If they're all good, can you please use this when uploading -rc6?
[05:38] <fabbione> morning
[05:38] <jbailey> You're up early. =)
[05:38] <fabbione> yeah
[05:39] <jbailey> Do you have brain space to look at the kernel-package stuff I put on chinstrap now?
[05:40] <jbailey> Otherwise I'm headed off to bed in a moment. =)
[05:40] <fabbione> yeah sure
[05:40] <fabbione> you could have just uploaded dude :)
[05:40] <jbailey> I don't like doing untested uploads.
[05:41] <fabbione> it's not like i will get mad at you if you break breezy :)
[05:41] <jbailey> True.
[05:41] <jbailey> If you'd like, I can debsign and dput. =)
[05:41] <fabbione> i am diffing now :)
[05:43] <jbailey> 'k
[05:43] <jbailey> I've signed my local copy, so if you like I'll dput it.
[05:43] <fabbione> go ahead :)
[05:43] <fabbione> i will test it to build 12rc6
[05:46] <jbailey> Whoosh, off she goes.
[05:46] <jbailey> I've pinged md about module-init-tools, which needs an update for the modalias magic.
[05:49] <jbailey> And I think it's now naptime. =)
[05:49] <jbailey> g'n =)
[05:50] <fabbione> good night jeff!
[05:50] <fabbione> cya later
[10:06] <fabbione> elmo: ping?
[10:32] <elmo> fabbione: sup
[10:32] <fabbione> elmo: hey
[10:33] <fabbione> if you have a few minutes, i would like to get the latest kernel-package in breezy-i386 on concordia and ccache on breezy/halley :)
[10:33] <fabbione> be aware to install k-p only on i386
[10:33] <fabbione> i need to create images that i can test locally
[10:34] <elmo> halley done, b-i386 is trying...
[10:35] <fabbione> yeah i guess i am spinning corcodia's CPUs a bit :)
[10:37] <fabbione> thanks a lot dude :)
[10:38] <elmo> np
[10:39] <elmo> (finished)
[10:39] <fabbione> perfect
[01:34] <jbailey> g'm
[01:35] <Mithrandir> jeff :)
[01:35] <jbailey> Heya Tollef.  Happy Birthday.
[01:36] <fabbione> hey jbailey
[01:36] <fabbione> jbailey: i just finished the build on i386 with the new kernel-package
[01:36] <jbailey> Cool!
[01:36] <fabbione> downloading the image right now for testing :)
[01:39] <jbailey> fabbione: If you could do two tests for me when you've got it?
[01:39] <fabbione> Setting up linux-image-2.6.12-1-686 (<IP_ADDRESS>-1.1) ...
[01:39] <jbailey> Aside from the regular install, try setting ramdisk = foo, and ramdisk = /usr/sbin/mkinitrd in kernel-img.conf
[01:39] <fabbione> Failed to create initrd image.
[01:39] <fabbione> dpkg: error processing linux-image-2.6.12-1-686 (--install):
[01:39] <fabbione>  subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 2
[01:39] <fabbione> Errors were encountered while processing:
[01:39] <fabbione>  linux-image-2.6.12-1-686
[01:40] <Mithrandir> jbailey: thanks. :)
[01:40] <fabbione> so there is something wrong in postinstall
[01:40] <jbailey> fabbione: Ugh.
[01:40] <jbailey> What's the perl equivalent of sh -x ?
[01:40] <Mithrandir> jbailey: it doesn't have any, sadly.
[01:40] <jbailey> Yar.
[01:41] <Mithrandir> it has a built-in debugger, though.
[01:41] <Mithrandir> I wish it'll grow a -x some day.
[01:41] <fabbione> jbailey: i think i know what is wrong.. just a few secs
[01:46] <Kamion> Mithrandir: yes it does
[01:47] <Mithrandir> Kamion: it does?  What's the magic for that?
[01:48] <Kamion> PERLDB_OPTS='NonStop AutoTrace' perl -d
[01:48] <Mithrandir> oooh, shiny.
[01:48] <Kamion> LineInfo=foo to output trace to foo
[01:48] <Kamion> see perldebug(1)
[01:48] <jbailey> Creepy. =)
[01:49] <jbailey> Denis Ritchie said the debugging was twice as hard as coding... And perl is the reference implementation!
[01:49] <fabbione> jbailey: white spaces are not an opinion :)))))
[01:49] <fabbione> my $ret = system($ramdisk .
[01:49] <fabbione> this is your original line
[01:49] <fabbione> but it calls a command that doesn't exist
[01:49] <fabbione> -  my $ret = system("mkinitrd " .
[01:49] <fabbione> +  my $ret = system($ramdisk .
[01:50] <fabbione> note the space AFTER mkinitrd
[01:50] <fabbione>   my $ret = system($ramdisk . " " .
[01:50] <jbailey> Oh, *lol*
[01:50] <fabbione> this will ensure a space after the command :)
[01:50] <fabbione> and works
[01:50] <fabbione> at least...
[01:50] <fabbione> let me reboot to see if it really works :)
[01:50] <Kamion> or just use system(LIST) rather than system(EXPR)
[01:50] <jbailey> fabbione: =)
[01:50] <Kamion> although that wouldn't work if $ramdisk can have both command and arguments, I guess
[01:51] <fabbione> Kamion: that's Manoj's code :)))
[01:51] <fabbione> Kamion: and yes.. there are options after
[01:51] <Kamion> ok
[01:51] <jbailey> Kamion: It can't, thankfully. =)
[01:52] <jbailey> The variable gets ( -e ) 'd in the preinst as a safety check.
[01:52] <fabbione> jbailey: so what's the second test you want me to do?
[01:52] <jbailey> fabbione: In kernel-img.conf try it with "ramdisk = foo", which should fail the preinst, and "ramdisk = /usr/sbin/mkinitrd" which is just overriding the default with the default but should work.
[01:53] <fabbione> jbailey: sure
[01:54] <fabbione> You are attempting to install an initrd kernel image (version
[01:54] <fabbione> 2.6.12-1-686) but you do not seem to have a mkinitrd command in the
[01:54] <fabbione> path. This will break the installation, unless initrd-tools are also
[01:54] <fabbione> being installed right now.
[01:54] <fabbione> Could not find /bin/foo in path. at /var/lib/dpkg/tmp.ci/preinst line 190.
[01:54] <fabbione> The directory /lib/modules/2.6.12-1-686 still exists. Continuing as directed.
[01:55] <fabbione> but it doesn't die at preinsta
[01:55] <fabbione> clearly you might be bootstrapping the system
[01:55] <fabbione> and since the kernel Depends: on mkinitrd
[01:55] <fabbione> apt will ensure that mkinitrd is configured before configuring the kernel
[01:55] <jbailey> What's the point of the check if it does die?
[01:55] <fabbione> it will fail at a later stage in postinst
[01:55] <jbailey> doesn't
[01:56] <fabbione> that was ramdisk = /bin/foo
[01:56] <fabbione> so the preinstall doesn't and actually can't fail
[01:56] <fabbione> for the above reasons
[01:57] <fabbione> i need to do another test...
[02:01] <fabbione> jbailey: it seems to work fine
[02:01] <fabbione> with ramdisk = /foo and ramdisk = /usr/sbin/mkinitrd
[02:01] <fabbione> and no ramdisk
[02:01] <fabbione> (given the little fix in the postinst)
[02:01] <fabbione> i am upload kernel-package to fix that error
[02:02] <jbailey> Nice, thanks. =)
[02:05] <fabbione>   * Bump Build-Deps on kernel-package 0.135ubuntu4 to include new postinst
[02:05] <fabbione>     script to support ramfs.
[02:05] <fabbione> does it look sane? ;)
[02:06] <jbailey> I'd say "ramfs variable in kernel-img.conf"
[02:06] <jbailey> Otherwise I'd expect the gentoo kiddys to come demanding what this new ramfs thing we have is.
[02:07] <fabbione> jbailey: perfect :)
[02:07] <fabbione> that's what we want
[02:07] <fabbione> people being curious of what we do
[02:07] <fabbione> and take them out of the dark side of the force
[02:08] <jbailey> a'ight.  As you see fit.
[02:08] <jbailey> At least your name is on the changlog entry. =)
[02:08] <fabbione> ahah
[02:13] <Kamion> "Add a simple cosmetic change"? dude.   It appears to work, versus not appearing to work.  Isn't that cosmetic? =)
[02:15] <fabbione> if it was somebody else i would have take out the sodomotron and larted him to death :)))
[02:16] <jbailey> *lol*
[02:16] <Kamion> I'm not sure "LART" is the right verb to use with the sodomotron
[02:16] <fabbione> Kamion: today you really want to take out the best of me, don't you? ;)
[02:16] <Kamion> unless you're using it in an unconventional way
[02:16] <fabbione> i am just trying to be nice :)
[02:16] <Kamion> :-)
[02:17] <jbailey> My version of a lart has always been a baseball bat with a rusty nail in the end.
[02:17] <jbailey> But it always could be a sodomotron, I guess.
[02:17] <fabbione> Kamion: admit it! you love when i start yelling at people: "I WILL STICK MY ARM IN YOUR ASS AND SHAKE YOU A FLAG IN THE WIND!"
[02:18] <jbailey> fabbione: Do you do that to get them excited or scare them?
[02:18] <jbailey> I ask only for information.
[02:18] <fabbione> haha
[02:18] <fabbione> to scare them :)
[02:19] <fabbione> elmo: i have the source for you...
[02:19] <fabbione> elmo: my ~ on concordia amd64/linux-source-2.6.12_<IP_ADDRESS>-1.1_all.deb
[02:20] <fabbione> you should be able to build your ppc64 custom kernel out of it
[02:20] <fabbione> the configs are still there if you want to look at them
[02:20] <fabbione> davis is still building, so i would appreciate if you can wait to reboot it
[02:23] <fabbione> i think i killed Kamion
[02:25] <jbailey> We need shirts for the.
[02:25] <jbailey> "OMG!
[02:25] <jbailey> +ed
[02:25] <Kamion> fabbione: love it> yes, it makes me horny baby </austinpowers>
[02:26] <Kamion> jbailey: I'm a traditional guy, I prefer a two-by-four
[02:31] <fabbione> heheheh
[03:07] <elmo> fabbione: for ppc64?
[03:09] <fabbione> elmo: yes
[03:09] <fabbione> the source is _all :)
[03:09] <fabbione> configs are on davis in my ~ if you need them
[03:09] <fabbione> the debs will be there soon for the stock kernel
[03:48] <fabbione> elmo: time to check nagios :)
[03:54] <fabbione> jbailey: ping?
[03:54] <jbailey> pong
[03:54] <fabbione> Accepted linux-source-2.6.12 <IP_ADDRESS>-1.1 (source)
[03:54] <fabbione> have fun :)
[03:55] <jbailey> Nice.  Have you reduced the ppc kernel flavours to something less than 10 hours of build time yet? =)
[03:55] <fabbione> jbailey: nope...
[03:55] <fabbione> i need a bit more people testing ppc64 before i can kill power3* power4*
[03:56] <fabbione> i only need to give the debs to elmo
[03:56] <fabbione> nad i am off :)
[03:56] <jbailey> enjoy =)
[04:19] <fabbione> elmo: linux-image-2.6.12-1-powerpc64-smp_<IP_ADDRESS>-1.1_powerpc.deb
[04:20] <fabbione> it's in my home dir on davis
[04:20] <elmo> want me to test that?
[04:20] <fabbione> jbailey: you wait for the one builded in the archive
[04:20] <fabbione> elmo: yes please
[04:20] <jbailey> fabbione: Yes, dear.
[04:20] <fabbione> OH CRAP
[04:20] <fabbione> no
[04:20] <fabbione> i did build it in breezy
[04:20] <fabbione> i am not sure you can have all the Depends: in hoary
[04:21] <fabbione> jbailey: it's because i cheated on davis just to check the build. it has the old postinst
[04:21] <fabbione> elmo: sorry.. i fucked that up.. i will prepare an image for you tomorrow
[04:21] <elmo> You are attempting to install an initrd kernel image (version
[04:21] <elmo> 2.6.12-1-powerpc64-smp) but you do not seem to have a mkinitrd command in the
[04:21] <elmo> path. This will break the installation, unless initrd-tools are also
[04:21] <elmo> being installed right now.
[04:21] <elmo> fabbione: ok, no prob
[04:21] <elmo> Could not find mkinitrd in path. at /var/lib/dpkg/tmp.ci/preinst line 189.
[04:21] <fabbione> elmo: i guess you dist-upgraded all the chroot??
[04:21] <elmo> hum?
[04:22] <elmo> no, I was installing that into base
[04:22] <fabbione> because that's the error coming from kernel-package ubuntu3
[04:22] <fabbione> hmmm
[04:22] <fabbione> it should have told you that you need initrd-tools installed
[04:22] <elmo> it did afterwards :)
[04:23] <elmo>  linux-image-2.6.12-1-powerpc64-smp depends on initrd-tools (>= 0.1.78ubuntu1); however:
[04:23] <elmo>   Package initrd-tools is not installed.
[04:23] <fabbione> Depends: initrd-tools (>= 0.1.78ubuntu1), coreutils | fileutils (>= 4.0), module-init-tools (>= 0.9.13)
[04:24] <elmo> right, but that message comes from the preinst, I was using just plain dpkg
[04:24] <fabbione> elmo: just purge and reinstall the kernel
[04:24] <elmo> yeah
[04:24] <fabbione> that message should be there only if mkinitrd is not in path
[04:24] <elmo> don't worry I was always  keeping the old good one ;)
[04:24] <fabbione> and it should still recover if mkinitrd tools is installed later
[04:27] <fabbione> elmo: did you manage to install it?
[04:27] <elmo> nah, needs >> hoary's initrd-tools
[04:27] <fabbione> ok gimme a sec
[04:30] <fabbione> dpkg-deb -b . linux-image-2.6.12-1-powerpc64-smp.deb
[04:30] <fabbione> dpkg-deb: building package `linux-image-2.6.12-1-powerpc64-smp' in `linux-image-2.6.12-1-powerpc64-smp.deb'.
[04:30] <fabbione> *DIRTY HACK ALLERT*
[04:30] <fabbione> davis:~/blob/
[04:30] <fabbione> try that one
[04:31] <fabbione> i hacked the control file to remove the versioned Depends:
[04:32] <fabbione> i really really need to stop
[04:32] <fabbione> hi lamont
[04:33] <fabbione> cya later or tomorrow guys
[04:33] <fabbione> elmo: good luck with that kernel :)
[04:34] <lamont__> fabbione: hi
[04:40] <elmo> cat: /proc/modules: No such file or directory
[04:40] <elmo> cat: /proc/modules: No such file or directory
[04:40] <elmo> warning: gids truncated to 8 bits (this may be a security concern)
[04:40] <elmo> during postinst configure
[04:58] <elmo> duh
[04:58] <elmo> that's not happy
[05:45] <elmo> james@davis:~$ cat /proc/cpuinfo | grep -c ^processor
[05:45] <elmo> 2
[05:45] <elmo> james@davis:~$ uname -a
[05:45] <elmo> Linux davis 2.6.12-1-powerpc64-smp #1 SMP Wed Jun 8 13:16:35 UTC 2005 ppc64 GNU/Linux
[05:45] <elmo> \o/
[05:46] <elmo> |o|
[05:46] <elmo> /o/
[05:46] <elmo> \o\
[05:46] <daniels> what the fuck is the second one?
[05:46] <infinity> A tie fighter.
[05:46] <doko> elmo: nice :-)
[05:46] <daniels> either you've been chopped off at the elbows, or that's a TIE fighter
[05:46] <elmo> it's me waving my arms around, you freaks
[05:46] <daniels> elmo: pipe down, stumpy
[05:47] <elmo> WOAH
[05:47] <doko> unfortunately somebody did remove powerpc64 support from the breezygoallist ...
[05:47] <elmo> time stamped dmesg, neat
[05:47] <infinity> daniels : Oh, it was a zucchini, by the way.  I just remembered.  Speaking of freaks.
[05:48] <infinity> Time stamps on dmesg?.. When did that happen?
[05:48] <doko> ehh, davis is a dual processor machine? nice
[05:48] <elmo> [   17.386107]  PowerMac G5 Thermal control driver 1.2b2
[05:48] <elmo> doko: yes, but smp didn't work with 32-bit :P
[05:48] <elmo> infinity: ^--
[05:49] <daniels> infinity: uh, what?
[05:49] <daniels> (nevermind)
[05:49] <infinity> elmo : DO I get shiny new kernels on the ppc buildds at some point now? :)
[05:49] <daniels> time-stamped dmesg is in .11, IIRC
[05:50] <infinity> daniels : Is it a config option?.. Cause I'm running .11.11, with no timestamps.
[05:50] <elmo> infinity: sure, once fabbione uploads 2.6.12 final, I'll compile my own and upgrade them
[05:50] <daniels> infinity: 'IIRC'
[05:51] <infinity> elmo : I suppose we don't fear that anyone's abusing 'uname -m' and build will suddenly start to blow up?
[05:51] <infinity> s/build/builds/
[05:53] <elmo> infinity: well, that's what breezy-test is for I guess
[05:53] <elmo> we can linux32 the builds, if you want
[05:53] <infinity> I just might.  Warn me before you upgrade the kernels.
[05:54] <infinity> (I've run into issues where sparc64 hosts still needs to be linux32'd on some builds too)
[05:54] <infinity> Though, I'd hope those have all been fixed by now.
[05:54] <elmo> why? sparc buildds have linux32-ed since day 0
[05:54] <elmo> the worst one is builds that break due to the presence of /lib64
[05:54] <infinity> Yeah, I know the buildds do.
[05:54] <infinity> But I've done by-hand builds and forgot to do so. :)
[05:54] <infinity> Most turn out okay, some get hooped by lib64 and/or uname -m
[05:57] <Kamion> elmo: what are the units on those timestamps?
[05:58] <daniels> jiffies, innit?
[05:59] <Kamion> how ... helpful
[06:00] <daniels> a jiffie is like a bajillionteenth of a second
[06:00] <daniels> approximately one unit of doogie's attention span
[06:01] <Kamion> *choke*
[06:31] <elmo> hey.. <random>
[06:31] <elmo> would the ability to upload packages purely to be test built be helpful?
[06:32] <Kamion> I thought that was a launchpad thing
[06:32] <elmo> the world is a launchpad thing
[06:32] <fabbione> re
[06:32] <fabbione> elmo: rocking!!!
[06:33] <elmo> but I'm doing breezy test anyway and we're not using it to rebuild the world, it'd be trivial to add yet another suite to the test archive
[06:33] <fabbione> elmo: and yes.. there is an option in .12 for timestamp printk
[06:33] <elmo> or heck even just use breezy-test itself
[06:33] <fabbione> Kamion: i think the timestamp is done seconds from boot
[06:33] <fabbione> Kamion: still better than nothing tho :)
[06:34] <fabbione> doko: you joking that ppc64 has been taken out of breezy goals????
[06:34] <fabbione> doko: we got toolchain and kernel.. we need 2 libs and it's there
[06:35] <infinity> elmo : Allowing random uploads to a test archive could be very handy, yes.
[06:35] <fabbione> Linux davis 2.6.12-1-powerpc64-smp #1 SMP Wed Jun 8 13:16:35 UTC 2005 ppc64 GNU/Linux
[06:36] <Kamion> BRAIN FLOSS
[06:36] <infinity> I doubt you'll ever get that one out.
[06:36] <Kamion> NOW, DAMNIT
[06:36] <fabbione> elmo: mind if i spin davis for a test???
[06:37] <doko> fabbione: well, it was a hoary goal, but maybe it didn't get added to breezy
[06:37] <fabbione> doko: well we did it basically
[06:37] <fabbione> so i mean
[06:37] <fabbione> it's pointless to stop NOW
[06:37] <doko> we just add it again ;)
[06:39] <doko> hmm, what is wrong, if ifup/ifdown hangs forever?
[06:40] <fabbione> elmo: btw .12 final should be out next week... so we won't have to wait for too long
[06:40] <doko> fabbione, which libs are missing?
[06:40] <fabbione> ncurses at least
[06:41] <fabbione> doko: basically you can just check the sparc Packages and see which libs are both 23/64 bit
[06:41] <fabbione> the same are missing on ppc64 :)
[06:41] <daniels> 23-bit?  weird
[06:41] <fabbione> yeah well :)
[06:41] <fabbione> 32
[06:42] <doko> heh, s390 has 31
[06:42] <daniels> elmo: breezy-test> yes, very
[06:42] <daniels> elmo: sshing into all the machines, screen'ing, dchroot'ing, etc, and then checking back is a pain in the arse
[06:42] <daniels> elmo: double points if all the build logs get emailed to the uploader automatically :)
[06:42] <fabbione> elmo: since when davis has 3GB of RAM?
[06:43] <doko> fabbione, elmo plugged another CPU as well ;)
[06:43] <elmo> fabbione: it should have 4
[06:43] <fabbione> where is the other one?
[06:44] <elmo> our porting machines are all meant to be dual proc, 4 Gb memory
[06:44] <fabbione> doko: eehhe
[06:44] <elmo> fabbione: dunno
[06:44] <daniels> fabbione: it's trying to migrate to concordia
[06:44] <elmo> I can't remember what 2.6.10 did
[06:44] <daniels> because davis isn't cool enough
[06:44] <fabbione> elmo: hmm it would be interesting to compare the 2 dmesg from 2.6.10 and 2.6.12
[06:44] <fabbione> elmo: because jbailey noticed a few interesting things in the diff
[06:45] <fabbione> but it's definetely going MUCH FASTER
[06:45] <elmo> fabbione: ~james/kern.log*
[06:45] <elmo> kern.log.0 has a 2.6.10 one by the look of it
[06:45] <elmo> fabbione: but critically IS IT CRASHING? :)
[06:46] <fabbione> Jun  8 16:17:21 davis kernel: [    0.000000]  Memory hole size: 2048MB
[06:46] <fabbione> elmo: not yet.. i just started building the kernel...
[06:46] <fabbione> Jun  8 16:17:21 davis kernel: [   17.212083]  Memory: 2972400k/5242880k available (2672k kernel code, 2269804k reserved, 1308k data, 278k bss, 212k
[06:46] <fabbione>  init)
[06:46] <fabbione> Jun  8 16:17:21 davis kernel: [   17.212238]  Calibrating delay loop... 66.56 BogoMIPS (lpj=33280)
[06:47] <fabbione> you got the same intersting values as jbailey
[06:47] <fabbione> he has a 4GB machine
[06:47] <fabbione> and it was reporting 4GB/6GB
[06:47] <elmo> lemme, go check the invoice, but I'm 99% sure it's got 4Gb
[06:47] <fabbione> still 66.56 Bogo
[06:47] <daniels> only 66.56??  dude my laptop is faster than davis wtf
[06:48] <fabbione> May 14 09:47:41 davis kernel: Memory: 2071296k available (1768k kernel code, 916k data, 364k init, 1310720k highmem)
[06:48] <daniels> i bet it scores higher on glxgears too!!
[06:49] <fabbione> see 2.6.10 was able to see only 2GB
[06:49] <elmo> actually, sorry my bad
[06:49] <elmo> it appears it really only has 2Gb
[06:49] <elmo> so, err.
[06:49] <fabbione> wtf?
[06:49] <elmo> linux appears to be very confused
[06:50] <elmo> shall I down the box and check physically when you're done building?
[06:50] <fabbione> are you at the datacenter?
[06:50] <elmo> yes :-(
[06:50] <elmo> IBM ARE TEH SUCK
[06:50] <fabbione> i can stop now
[06:50] <fabbione> it really fast :)
[06:50] <fabbione> ok i am logged out
[06:50] <fabbione> i don't want to keep you there forever
[06:51] <fabbione> and i can run the build overnight :)
[06:51] <infinity> I can't imagine the kernel would just make up an extra gig of RAM.
[06:51] <fabbione> infinity: exactly
[06:51] <infinity> Well, not without crashing pretty damn soon after boot.
[06:51] <infinity> (As soon as it tried to map something in the nonexistant RAM)
[06:52] <infinity> On the other hand, PPC kernels since the dawn of time have been infamous for not finding all the RAM lying around in a system.
[06:52] <infinity> So my bet would be on 4 gig real, 3 detected.
[06:52] <fabbione> infinity: yes that's what i think
[06:53] <fabbione> jbailey: you should really check the ram on your machine too
[06:53] <infinity> (It could just be 1024+1024+512+512, though, and we're all speculating on a bug that isn't there)
[06:53] <fabbione> infinity: right
[06:53] <fabbione> that's why elmo is shutting down the machine :)
[06:54] <infinity> Heh.
[06:54] <elmo> hum, how very confusing
[06:55] <elmo> it appears to have 1+1+.5+.5
[06:55] <fabbione> *infinity wins*
[06:56] <daniels> gypped
[06:56] <infinity> Or, bonus.
[06:58] <Kamion> haha
[06:59] <Kamion> "... you slack-jawed hippy"
[07:00] <fabbione> brb
[07:07] <fabbione> elmo: i am going to spin davis to death :)
[07:07] <fabbione> let's see how it behaves
[07:09] <fabbione> let's start warming it up
[07:09] <fabbione> -j100
[07:14] <fabbione> top - 18:14:22 up 13 min,  2 users,  load average: 27.38, 16.02, 6.70
[07:14] <fabbione> it doesn't go higher than that!
[07:14] <fabbione> the scheduler is really really nive
[07:14] <fabbione> nice
[07:25] <fabbione> elmo: i will let you know how it goes...
[07:25] <fabbione> right now it seems as fast as concordia :)
[07:25] <fabbione> i will have to time them
[07:25] <fabbione> :)
[08:15] <fabbione> elmo: with the ppc64 kernel davis seems much more stable
[08:15] <fabbione> 6 falvours no segfaults
[08:16] <elmo> fabbione: score
[08:17] <fabbione> if we can keep the kernel up for a while i will stress test it tomorrow
[08:17] <fabbione> but it looks good
[08:21] <elmo> sure, no problem leaving it up for a while; mdz actually wants me to test our binary kernels on at least one of each of our server types anyways
[08:21] <elmo> (rather than building my own, Imean)
[08:26] <jbailey> fabbione: Check the ram?
[09:03] <fabbione> jbailey: forget the ram thing :
[09:03] <fabbione> )
[09:03] <fabbione> we figured the kernel was ok
[09:06] <jbailey> Lovely. =)
[10:28] <elmo> lamont: ?
[10:28] <lamont_r> si?
[10:28] <elmo> what is it you special cased?
[10:28] <elmo> *-test ?
[10:28] <lamont_r> yes
[10:28] <elmo> hum, special cased how?
[10:28] <lamont_r> -cat is also special cased, but believes in rockhopper...
[10:29] <elmo> how hard is it to change the special casing and/or add new ones?
[10:30] <lamont_r> just a matter of rolling the script, and since infinitiy backed out hte gross hammer-hacks in buildd.conf (no-auto-build), installing a new one is trivial
[10:30] <elmo> ok, cool
[10:30] <lamont_r> see /usr/sbin/build-chroot on any of the buildd's, and you'll see what special-cased means


[12:06] <ogra> mdz, btw if you see any need to revisit unionfs for ltsp, feel free to drop me a spec :)
[12:08] <mdz> Keybuk: it still randomly oopses sometimes
[12:09] <mdz> even with our very basic configuration
[12:09] <mdz> and unionfs for ltsp was a DISASTER
[12:09] <mdz> it and NFS hate each other
[12:09] <ogra> yep
[12:09] <ogra> but that might have improved, i havent looked at unionfs' changelog since quite some time
[12:12] <Keybuk> mdz: so that explains that then ... anyone in ubuntu-core-dev who proposed a spec automatically had it accepted
[12:13] <mdz> Keybuk: that's odd, there were things on +settopics which were proposed by -core-dev
[12:14] <mdz> Keybuk: but anyway that was OK in almost every case since most of -core-dev will be there
[12:14] <Keybuk> we can't tell who proposed it though, no?
[12:14] <mdz> no
[12:14] <Keybuk> we can only tell who registered it
[12:14] <mjg59> Argh my inbox
[12:32] <Keybuk> mdz: so, what do do with these undefined ones?
[12:37] <mdz> Keybuk: I think maybe they should be left alone for now
[12:38] <mdz> Keybuk: or set them all to low
[12:38] <Keybuk> undefined is better than low, it shows we haven't thought about it yet
[12:38] <mdz> I don't want to futz around with the browser to set them all when it's not clear what we'll want in the end
[12:39] <mdz> there could be things buried in the swamp that are on there for a reason, like someone coming in just to discuss one thing
[12:39] <mdz> and those should be prioritized
[12:39] <mdz> the sab says we have too many already
[12:40] <mdz> Keybuk: it also depends on how many specs each person has so far
[12:40] <Keybuk> 4 Essential, 33 High, 23 Medium
[12:41] <Keybuk> yeah, it's annoying we don't have a sprint workload feature
[12:41] <Riddell> does assigned mean I'm expected to implement it or just to lead the BoF?
[12:41] <mdz> leaving what...65?
[12:41] <Keybuk> yup, 65 undefined
[12:41] <mdz> Riddell: it means I wanted to see your name next to it on https://launchpad.net/sprints/uds-paris/+specs
[12:41] <Keybuk> unsurprisingly the most assigned are Riddell and ogra
[12:42] <Keybuk> being derivative maintainers
[12:42] <Keybuk> after that, it's tollef and mvo
[12:42] <Riddell> Keybuk: I have a bunch of KDE people coming who can share the load
[12:44] <Keybuk> NMSP is a sabdfl-desired discussion
[12:44] <Keybuk> so bumped that to Essential -- should only be 1 session
[12:45] <sivang> Keybuk: NMSP ?
[12:45] <Keybuk> sivang: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/NoMoreSourcePackages
[12:46] <sivang> Keybuk: ah, right.
[12:51] <Keybuk> WHAT IS RPATH?
[12:51] <Keybuk> err, tr [A-Z]  [a-z]
[12:52] <sivang> Keybuk: seriously asking? :)
[12:52] <Keybuk> the only rpath I know about is the ld flag to hardcode a path to look for shared libraries in
[12:53] <sivang> Keybuk: http://www.rpath.com/corp/
[12:53] <zul> heh there is always a patch for quieten grub
[12:53] <sivang> Keybuk: Keybuk http://wiki.conary.com/
[12:53] <Keybuk> sivang: that doesn't seem to fit
[12:53] <Keybuk> "software applicance company" ?
[12:53] <Keybuk> sounds like makers of network applicances
[12:53] <sivang> Keybuk: sounded the same for me
[12:53] <Keybuk> oh, conary
[12:54] <sivang> Keybuk: but I was interested in conary some time ago, in the "recepies" method but then forgot about it until I saw the delegates list :-)
[12:55] <Keybuk> I've never really worked out what conary is supposed to be *for*
[12:55] <sivang> Keybuk: also, if we have rants per autotools et al, we can direct them at Erik and Michael ;-)
[12:56] <sivang> Keybuk: reading the NMSP wiki , I think there are colliding efforts to solve some of the similar issues. "the RCS approach to packaging" or so.
[12:56] <Keybuk> sivang: right, except it's an RCS approach to binary packages
[12:56] <Keybuk> ie. you checkout 1.0 of the udev binary
[12:56] <Keybuk> and update to 1.1, etc.
[01:18] <kbrooks> sivang: ? :P
[01:20] <kbrooks> can i ask a questino
[01:21] <kbrooks> i'm reading that spec
[01:21] <kbrooks> and
[01:21] <kbrooks> i simply dont get it
[01:21] <kbrooks> source packages are necessary, no?
[01:23] <kbrooks> it is a BIG paradigm change for EVERYONE
[01:24] <kbrooks> it could be argued that the spec is technically flawed
[01:31] <Riddell> kbrooks: how is it technically flawed?
[01:31] <kbrooks> Riddell: well, as i said, it's a big paradigm change... and i think the spec author wants apt-get source (as a example, of course) to be changed
[01:32] <Riddell> yes that's right
[01:32] <Riddell> but you've not pointed out any flaw
[01:33] <kbrooks> Riddell: that's the flaw. changing apt-get source is a flaw imo
[01:33] <Riddell> it would help your argument if you gave a reason :)
[01:33] <Riddell> this is all an evil plan from sabdfl, you can ask him about it and he'll put his pinky in his mouth and laugh manically (really)
[01:34] <ajmitch> kbrooks: stating "it's flawed" isn't enough :)
[01:35] <kbrooks> it's a flaw because apt-get source shouldn't be changed.
[01:35] <ajmitch> but why not?
[01:36] <kbrooks> because it is a big b/c (backwards compatibility) problem
[01:37] <kbrooks> if we want apt-get source to be changed, then we should add "--use-bzr" and leave that off.
[02:10] <Keybuk> kbrooks: why?
[02:10] <Keybuk> kbrooks: you've failed to give a reason
[02:11] <Keybuk> "X is flawed?"
[02:11] <Keybuk> "why is X flawed?"
[02:11] <Keybuk> "because X is flawed?"
[02:11] <Keybuk> "but why?"
[02:14] <Keybuk> kbrooks: the spec can be summed up as "make a fundamental, BIG paradigm change for everyone" ... that's kinda the point
[02:19] <kbrooks> Keybuk: OK
[02:20] <kbrooks> Keybuk: where can i talk about specs in?
[02:20] <ogra> i'd summarize it as "drop all the middleware packaging crap between the developer and the source"
[02:21] <kbrooks> ogra: wherre can I talk about specs in? ping
[02:22] <ogra> kbrooks, in paris :)
[02:22] <kbrooks> ogra: i'm talking about a IRC channel
[02:23] <kbrooks> ogra: france is too far for me :-)
[02:23] <LaserJock> maybe -offtopic ? unless -devel wants it
[02:23] <ogra> the specs are the base for face to face discussions ... even though we might be available on IRC during the discussion, having a BOF meeting on IRC in parallel while speccing something doesnt work well
[02:32] <Keybuk> you will be able to listen in to all of the BOFs by installing a piece of VoIP software
[02:32] <Keybuk> as all BOFs will be broadcast that way
[02:32] <ogra> oh, really ?
[02:32] <Keybuk> if you have any particular problems with the NoMoreSourcePackages spec though, I'd be happy to discuss them with you (I'm the author of that spec)
[02:32] <ogra> thats cool :)
[02:32] <Keybuk> hang on, let me flip to laptop
[02:33] <Keybuk> better
[02:33] <Keybuk> ogra: that's why elmo asked whether anyone had a !i386 ... the software only works on i386
[02:33] <Keybuk> and we all get headsets and get to pretend to be Madonna
[02:34] <ogra> i think NMSP is just a logical consequence if launchpad ...
[02:34] <ogra> hmm, good to know, i'll make sure to have my amd64 lappie with me ...
[02:34] <Keybuk> kbrooks: so, tell me you problems
[02:35] <LaserJock> Keybuk: everybody?
[02:35] <kbrooks> Keybuk: well, OK. as i said, it's a big change
[02:35] <zul> Keybuk: sweet!
[02:35] <Keybuk> LaserJock: I'm not sure, I'm not sure I'm supposed to know the secret plan <g>
[02:35] <Keybuk> kbrooks: it is a big change, yes ... it means learning a completely new way to do packaging work
[02:35] <kbrooks> Keybuk: won't this change be bad?
[02:36] <Keybuk> kbrooks: why would it be "bad" ?
[02:36] <Keybuk> bad would imply that a change has negative consequences
[02:36] <kbrooks> Keybuk: bad as in counterproductive
[02:36] <Keybuk> I would have said it would increase productivity
[02:36] <kbrooks> Keybuk: how does it increase productivity?
[02:37] <Keybuk> updating to new upstream releases becomes simple ... just merge from the upstream branch; no more tedious mucking around with tarballs and getting the patches right
[02:37] <Keybuk> merging with Debian becomes just as simple ... just merge from the Debian branch
[02:37] <Keybuk> no more mom, manual merges, etc.
[02:37] <kbrooks> Keybuk: "mom"?
[02:37] <Keybuk> kbrooks: merge-o-matic; the thing we spend the first two months of any release dealing with
[02:38] <Keybuk> contributing changes to Ubuntu becomes simple
[02:38] <Keybuk> right now you have to do something like:
[02:38] <Keybuk> apt-get source foo
[02:38] <kbrooks> Keybuk: what do you  mean, no more merge-o-matic? why would this supersede mom?
[02:38] <Keybuk> cp foo foo~   (so you can diff later ... most people forget this)
[02:38] <Keybuk> make changes to foo
[02:38] <Keybuk> make a diff from foo~ to foo
[02:38] <Keybuk> now that becomes just
[02:38] <Keybuk> branch foo; make changes; commit; tell a developer
[02:38] <LaserJock> yeah, at first I was like "woah" but now I'm like "wow"
[02:38] <Keybuk> kbrooks: because anyone can just "bzr merge $debian"
[02:38] <kbrooks> LaserJock: woah as in?
[02:39] <LaserJock> kbrooks: woah as in, that's a big change
[02:39] <kbrooks> Keybuk: stop. $debian?
[02:39] <Keybuk> kbrooks: whatever the branch URL for debian turns out to be
[02:39] <Keybuk> probably just "debian"
[02:39] <kbrooks> Keybuk: ummm.........
[02:39] <kbrooks> Keybuk: what do you mean?
[02:40] <Keybuk> Debian
[02:40] <Keybuk> it's a Linux distribution
[02:40] <kbrooks> Keybuk: where does this URL come from/
[02:40] <Keybuk> every 6 months, we catch up with the changes they've made by merging them into Ubuntu
[02:40] <Keybuk> that's our primary source of development
[02:40] <Keybuk> right now that is _hard_work_
[02:40] <Keybuk> kbrooks: Launchpad
[02:40] <kbrooks> Keybuk: the *original* debian package?
[02:41] <Keybuk> it would be the Debian package imported into bzr, in a manner that allows us to merge from it
[02:41] <kbrooks> Keybuk: OK
[02:41] <kbrooks> "merge from it"? don't you mean "merge TO it"?
[02:41] <Keybuk> bzr diff -r tag:093-1..tag:094-1 .../udev
[02:41] <Keybuk> wouldn't that be great?
[02:41] <Keybuk> no, from
[02:41] <Keybuk> cd ubuntu-udev
[02:41] <Keybuk> bzr merge .../debian-udev
[02:42] <Keybuk> take the changes made in debian-udev and merge them into the ubuntu-udev branch
[02:42] <Keybuk> ("merge from debian-udev")
[02:42] <kbrooks> Keybuk: yes it would be great.
[02:42] <Keybuk> hell, forget just diff'ing revisions
[02:42] <kbrooks> Keybuk: "tag:" ?
[02:42] <Keybuk> kbrooks: I'm making up syntax :p
[02:43] <kbrooks> OK :p
[02:43] <Keybuk> bzr branch .../udev
[02:43] <Keybuk> # make changes you like
[02:43] <Keybuk> bzr commit
[02:43] <kbrooks> that's it/
[02:43] <kbrooks> 3 lines?
[02:43] <kbrooks> ...
[02:43] <Keybuk> bzr push launchpad/~kbrooks/my-udev
[02:43] <kbrooks> now i'm like "wow"
[02:43] <Keybuk> yeah
[02:43] <ogra> Keybuk, i'd really whish i could do that with debians ltsp (which is even in bzr) :)
[02:43] <Keybuk> now you have your own udev package
[02:43] <Keybuk> Launchpad builds it for you, yadda, yadda
[02:43] <Keybuk> but oh no, new ubuntu udev package *sigh*
[02:43] <kbrooks> Keybuk: huh?
[02:43] <Keybuk> bzr merge .../udev
[02:43] <Keybuk> easy
[02:43] <Keybuk> now you're up to date
[02:43] <kbrooks> Keybuk: stop for a min.
[02:44] <kbrooks> Keybuk: launchpad builds my new udev package?
[02:44] <Keybuk> ogra: why can't you?
[02:44] <Keybuk> kbrooks: sure
[02:44] <kbrooks> Keybuk: so its semi automatic?
[02:44] <kbrooks> Keybuk: so far i like the idea
[02:45] <Keybuk> hmm, for some reason the Launchpad spec tracker has become password protected
[02:45] <kbrooks> Keybuk: it's cool - revision control leveraged, that is
[02:45] <LaserJock> Keybuk: do you think that is doable in Edgy?
[02:45] <ogra> Keybuk, because i dont want all the skolelinux fixes and debian-edu changes we dont need in our package, but the feature i want to maerge wasnt developed ina separate branch and they merged randomly in the middle of feature development
[02:45] <Keybuk> kbrooks: https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/PersonalPackageArchives
[02:45] <Keybuk> can you see that?
[02:45] <kbrooks> who, me?
[02:45] <Keybuk> yeah
[02:46] <Keybuk> LaserJock: I think there's enough time that edgy+1 could be maintained that way
[02:46] <Keybuk> however it requires a lot of work by the LP guys -- who have a very full plate
[02:46] <kbrooks> Keybuk: WTF?
[02:46] <kbrooks> Keybuk: I can see it
[02:46] <kbrooks> Keybuk: i wonder why I can.
[02:46] <Keybuk> kbrooks: that's the old public wiki
[02:47] <Keybuk> I don't know why the new one is private :-/  even I don't have the password to it
[02:47] <ogra> Keybuk, so i have 180 changes where i want a feature that was developed in ~70 commits of these 180 changes ... but scattered in there are merges that diverge the base from ours ...
[02:47] <LaserJock> Keybuk: yeah, that is what I was sort of thinking, how would you transition that? whould it have to be all or nothing?
[02:47] <ogra> so i end up with tons of conflicts ...
[02:47] <kbrooks> Keybuk: https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/PersonalPackageArchives: HCT: define?
[02:47] <Keybuk> HCT is the predecessor to NoMoreSourcePackages
[02:48] <Keybuk> the idea was a tool that used revision control to maintain source packages
[02:48] <Keybuk> I no longer think that's the correct approach
[02:48] <kbrooks> what does HCT stand for
[02:48] <Keybuk> (PPA is an old spec, written ~1 year ago)
[02:48] <Keybuk> Hypothetical Changeset Tool
[02:48] <Keybuk> ogra: ah, that old problem :p
[02:48] <Keybuk> ogra: the solution is to force better practice
[02:49] <ogra> Keybuk, yes, *i* know that, *i* have a separate branch for every ltsp feature
[02:49] <Keybuk> ogra: I mean force it upon Debian -- teach them why branches is better
[02:50] <kbrooks> Keybuk: how?
[02:50] <ogra> the solution is to teach people to actually *use* the branching opportunities bzr gives them
[02:50] <kbrooks> ogra: how?
[02:50] <ogra> kbrooks, develop every single feature in a separate branch of the main app ...
[02:51] <ogra> in the end you just do: cd ltsp && bzr merge ../ltsp-sound
[02:51] <kbrooks> ogra: "every single feature"?
[02:51] <Keybuk> branches are cheap
[02:51] <kbrooks> ogra: show me a quick example?
[02:51] <ogra> so everybody wanting your feature can grab it as well from there
[02:51] <Keybuk> $ cp -a udev udev.fix-bug-12345
[02:51] <Keybuk> $ cd udev.fix-bug-12345
[02:51] <Keybuk> $ vi udevd.c
[02:51] <Keybuk> $ bzr commit
[02:51] <Keybuk> $ cd ../udev
[02:51] <kbrooks> ogra: this reminds me of svn branches :-)
[02:51] <Keybuk> $ bzr merge ../udev.fix-bug-12345
[02:52] <Keybuk> (real syntax)
[02:52] <ogra> kbrooks, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/bzr-archive/ltsp/
[02:52] <kbrooks> ogra: except SVN is centralized
[02:52] <ogra> see the amount of branches
[02:52] <kbrooks> ogra: 8?
[02:53] <Keybuk> ogra: btw, BzrMaintainerHowto ... get ltsp pushed into the supermirror so everyone can hack <g>
[02:53] <ajmitch> Keybuk: so you're not going to work on hct any longer?
[02:53] <kbrooks> supermirror?
[02:53] <kbrooks> ummm
[02:53] <kbrooks> teach me :P
[02:53] <ogra> Keybuk, i havent an edgy branch yet before i decide how i merge the debian modularization of ltsp without breaking ours completely
[02:53] <Keybuk> kbrooks: bazaar.launchpad.net
[02:53] <Keybuk> kbrooks: basically it's a giant place anyone can host a bzr branch or mirror
[02:54] <Keybuk> e.g. http://launchpad.net/products/udev/+branches
[02:54] <kbrooks> Keybuk: meta mirror?
[02:54] <Keybuk> there you can see the different known udev branches
[02:54] <ajmitch> Keybuk: the problem I found with bzr & importing upstream tarballs what to do on new upstream releases when stuff gets moved around
[02:54] <Keybuk> if you click on "Ubuntu package of udev"
[02:54] <Keybuk> you can see the different revisions
[02:54] <ajmitch> afaik the best option is to just copy over the .bzr dir
[02:54] <Keybuk> you also get a URL ("http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/udev/ubuntu") that you can give to bzr
[02:54] <Keybuk> bzr branch http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/udev/ubuntu
[02:55] <Keybuk> will give you a directory containing the ubuntu source package of udev
[02:55] <Keybuk> (today)
[02:55] <Keybuk> ajmitch: -> #u-d
[02:56] <kbrooks> devel?
[02:56] <kbrooks> Keybuk: i get.... redirected
[02:57] <kbrooks> https://bazaar.launchpad.net/ doesnt work
[02:57] <kbrooks> or should it?
[02:57] <Keybuk> there's nothing "interesting" at the top-level
[02:57] <Keybuk> follow the chain I gave to see interesting things
[02:58] <kbrooks> Keybuk: connecting
[02:58] <kbrooks> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev 404
[02:59] <kbrooks> weird heh
[02:59] <kbrooks> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/udev/ubuntu/
[03:00] <kbrooks> Keybuk: i dont see interesting things there
[03:00] <Keybuk> kbrooks: add a .bzr
[03:00] <Keybuk> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/udev/ubuntu/.bzr
[03:00] <Keybuk> it's a bzr branch
[03:00] <kbrooks> ah
[03:00] <kbrooks> ty
[07:58] <Ekushey> when is the next CC meeting?
[08:55] <dsas> !schedule london
[08:56] <robitaille> @schedule london
[08:56] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/London: 14 Jun 13:00: Edubuntu | 14 Jun 14:30: Xubuntu | 15 Jun 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 15 Jun 18:00: Documentation Team | 15 Jun 21:00: Edubuntu Cookbook | 20 Jun 21:00: Technical Board
[08:57] <dsas> thanks
[09:04] <jenda> Ekushey: nobody knows :) I've been trying to find out for a week.
[09:06] <Ekushey> jenda: ping me if u find out ;)
[09:09] <jenda> Ekushey: OK
[10:19] <EmxBA> hi again :)
[10:20] <highvoltage> heh :)
[10:20] <EmxBA> hehe :)
[11:40] <cbx33> @schedule london
[11:40] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/London: 14 Jun 13:00: Edubuntu | 14 Jun 14:30: Xubuntu | 15 Jun 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 15 Jun 18:00: Documentation Team | 15 Jun 21:00: Edubuntu Cookbook | 20 Jun 21:00: Technical Board
[11:44] <EmxBA> @london
[11:44] <cbx33> @schedule london
[11:44] <EmxBA> @schedule london
[11:44] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/London: 14 Jun 13:00: Edubuntu | 14 Jun 14:30: Xubuntu | 15 Jun 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 15 Jun 18:00: Documentation Team | 15 Jun 21:00: Edubuntu Cookbook | 20 Jun 21:00: Technical Board
[11:44] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/London: 14 Jun 13:00: Edubuntu | 14 Jun 14:30: Xubuntu | 15 Jun 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 15 Jun 18:00: Documentation Team | 15 Jun 21:00: Edubuntu Cookbook | 20 Jun 21:00: Technical Board
[11:45] <EmxBA> @schedule sarajevo
[11:45] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Sarajevo: 14 Jun 14:00: Edubuntu | 14 Jun 15:30: Xubuntu | 15 Jun 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 15 Jun 19:00: Documentation Team | 15 Jun 22:00: Edubuntu Cookbook | 20 Jun 22:00: Technical Board
[11:46] <simira> when's the next CC?
[11:47] <cbx33> simira: check fridge
[11:47] <EmxBA> so edubuntu cookbook is tomorrow
[11:47] <EmxBA> 21:00
[11:49] <simira> cbx33: yes... and? There's no meeting scheduled the next month, as I can see
[11:50] <cbx33> hmm
[11:50] <cbx33> sorry,was just suggesting, I havn't looked either
[11:51] <EmxBA> @schedule sarajevo
[11:51] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Sarajevo: 14 Jun 14:00: Edubuntu | 14 Jun 15:30: Xubuntu | 15 Jun 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 15 Jun 19:00: Documentation Team | 15 Jun 22:00: Edubuntu Cookbook | 20 Jun 22:00: Technical Board
[11:51] <DanielC> @schedule sarajevo
[11:51] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Sarajevo: 14 Jun 14:00: Edubuntu | 14 Jun 15:30: Xubuntu | 15 Jun 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 15 Jun 19:00: Documentation Team | 15 Jun 22:00: Edubuntu Cookbook | 20 Jun 22:00: Technical Board
[11:52] <EmxBA> ok
[11:52] <EmxBA> 14 Jun 14:00: Edubuntu
[11:52] <EmxBA> and "15 Jun 22:00: Edubuntu Cookbook "
[11:52] <EmxBA> i'll be on cookbook
[11:52] <EmxBA> today maybe not
[11:54] <DanielC> @schedule london
[11:54] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/London: 14 Jun 13:00: Edubuntu | 14 Jun 14:30: Xubuntu | 15 Jun 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 15 Jun 18:00: Documentation Team | 15 Jun 21:00: Edubuntu Cookbook | 20 Jun 21:00: Technical Board
[11:55] <Ekushey> @schedule dhaka
[11:55] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Asia/Dhaka: 14 Jun 18:00: Edubuntu | 14 Jun 19:30: Xubuntu | 15 Jun 20:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 15 Jun 23:00: Documentation Team | 16 Jun 02:00: Edubuntu Cookbook | 21 Jun 02:00: Technical Board
[11:56] <Ekushey> cool
[11:56] <EmxBA> @schedule antartica
[11:57] <DanielC> EmxBA: Antartica is a continent that covers every timezone on Earth because it contains a pole.
[11:57] <EmxBA> @schedule south_pole
[11:57] <EmxBA> :)
[11:57] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Antarctica/South_Pole: 15 Jun 00:00: Edubuntu | 15 Jun 01:30: Xubuntu | 16 Jun 02:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 16 Jun 05:00: Documentation Team | 16 Jun 08:00: Edubuntu Cookbook | 21 Jun 08:00: Technical Board
[11:58] <EmxBA> danielC: i know that, just kidding
[11:58] <Ekushey> lol
[12:02] <Seveas> @now
[12:02] <Ubugtu> Current time in Etc/UTC: June 14 2006, 10:02:20 - Next meeting: Edubuntu  in 1 hours
[12:02] <EmxBA> ok
[12:02] <Seveas> meh
[12:02] <Seveas> that's incorrect
[12:02] <Seveas> it's in 1:58
[12:03] <EmxBA> hi seveas
[12:03] <highvoltage> wow that's quite cool (about antartica)
[12:03] <EmxBA> lol
[12:06] <Seveas> @now
[12:06] <Ubugtu> An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information.
[12:06] <EmxBA> wtf?
[12:07] <Seveas> @reload Webcal
[12:07] <Seveas> @now
[12:07] <Ubugtu> An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information.
[12:07] <Seveas> stupid bot
[12:07] <EmxBA> lol
[12:07] <Seveas> @reload Webcal
[12:07] <EmxBA> i finally installed ethereal
[12:07] <Seveas> @now
[12:07] <EmxBA> enjoy
[12:07] <Ubugtu> Current time in Etc/UTC: June 14 2006, 10:07:57 - Next meeting: Edubuntu  in 1 hour 52 minutes
[12:07] <highvoltage> EmxBA: please don't say 'wtf?' on #ubuntu-meeting, it's considered to be against the CoC :)
[12:08] <EmxBA> ok
[12:08] <EmxBA> no bad words
[12:08] <EmxBA> :)
[12:08] <highvoltage> EmxBA: nah, it happens :)
[12:08] <Seveas> there, ubugtu now is a bit more correct
[12:08] <EmxBA> i know
[12:18] <GNAM> @schedule Rome
[12:18] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 14 Jun 14:00: Edubuntu | 14 Jun 15:30: Xubuntu | 15 Jun 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 15 Jun 19:00: Documentation Team | 15 Jun 22:00: Edubuntu Cookbook | 20 Jun 22:00: Technical Board
[12:23] <EmxBA> :)
[12:46] <EmxBA> everyone, join #edubuntu-bosnia
[12:56] <Seveas> EmxBA, please don't clutter up the logs of #ubuntu-meeting. Preferably this channel is completely silent between meetings
[12:57] <EmxBA> ok
[12:58] <Ekushey> Seveas: EmxBA says he's 14 years old
[12:58] <Seveas> Ekushey, even 14 year old people ahould be quiet ;)
[12:59] <EmxBA> ok
[01:00] <jenda> Seveas: very non-CoC-conformist...
[01:01] <Seveas> jenda, ?
[01:01] <jenda> err... never mind, I missed the 'even'... it sounded a lot worse without it. Sorry ;)
[01:01] <ogra> jenda, ?
[01:02] <Seveas> hahaha
[01:59] <kbrooks> meeting
[01:59] <kbrooks> ogra! ping
[01:59] <kbrooks> ogra! start it
[02:00] <cbx33> kbrooks: you seem rather excited
[02:00] <cbx33> <--------------------------------meeting notes start here--------------------------------------->
[02:00] <Seveas> <------------- no, here --------------->
[02:00] <kbrooks> heh Seveas
[02:00] <cbx33> damn you :p
[02:00] <ogra>  <------------- no ... , here --------------->
[02:00] <flint> ogra, good morning!
[02:00] <kbrooks> damn you ogra :P
[02:00] <ogra> hey Flik
[02:00] <JaneW> <----- here----->
[02:00] <ogra> heh
[02:01] <ogra> flint too
[02:01] <Seveas> hi JaneW !
[02:01] <ogra> sooo
[02:01] <kbrooks> JaneW: you're silly. :-)
[02:01] <JaneW> hi everyone
[02:01] <ogra> we have some major changes i'd like to talk about in advance
[02:01] <DanielC> hi everyone, first time at an Edubuntu meeting.
[02:01] <cbx33> ogra: sounds ominous
[02:01] <ogra> rodarvus, around ?
[02:01] <rodarvus> ogra: I'm here
[02:01] <ogra> yay
[02:02] <ogra> ok, as you all might have seen on the mailing list, JaneW is leaving us today
[02:02] <flint> JaneW, Bummer...
[02:02] <DanielC> :(
[02:02] <kbrooks> !!!
[02:02] <kbrooks> why?
[02:02] <cbx33> maybe we should all go on strike
[02:02] <flint> JaneW, what is it, Kids, health or new horizons?
[02:03] <ogra> please giver her a long big hug if you ever meet her in person, the first edubuntu release would never have happened without her
[02:03] <bluekuja> JaneW: thanks
[02:03] <JaneW> flint: bit of everything, but mostly looking for sane hours
[02:03] <kbrooks> ogra: doesnt surprise me
[02:03] <ogra> heh
[02:03] <JaneW> ogra: pah, edubuntu is all YOU
[02:03] <ogra> not at all
[02:03] <kbrooks> ogra: other changes?
[02:03] <ogra> i wouldnt have managed any of the paperwork
[02:04] <ogra> kbrooks, patiency is golden :P
[02:04] <kbrooks> ogra: OK
[02:04] <ogra> JaneW, we will and if only to please you
[02:04] <LaserJock> hehe
[02:04] <kbrooks> ogra: i'm interested in the changes
[02:04] <ogra> soooo
[02:04] <ogra> that were the negative changes ....
[02:05] <ogra> without JaneW edubuntu would go down the drain, thats a known fact at canonical :)
[02:05] <ogra> so the team was/will be enhanced by two people
[02:05] <ogra> guys ....
[02:05] <cbx33> as he is a drummer :p
[02:06] <ogra> let me introduce you to our new star rodarvus !!
[02:06] <cbx33> hi rodarvus
[02:06] <rodarvus> hi all :)
[02:06] <Seveas> hi
[02:06] <DanielC> hi rodarvus
[02:06] <LaserJock> hi rodarvus
[02:06] <bluekuja> hello rodarvus
[02:06] <ogra> rodarvus, you might introduce yourself and tell us about what you'll be doing ...
[02:06] <rodarvus> sure
[02:07] <rodarvus> briefly talking about my past:
[02:07] <ogra> (i'm not sure about that myself yet ... but mark said you'll be technical lead aside from OLPC)
[02:07] <rodarvus> I've been doing development on linux for the last twelve years
[02:07] <rodarvus> worked at a few places such as Conectiva, Terra Lycos and Nokia Institute of Technology
[02:08] <rodarvus> I've worked doing distro development for quite a few years now (first rpm based, and later, deb based distros)
[02:08] <rodarvus> and in the last few years gained some expertise on the embedded/semi-embedded market too
[02:08] <JaneW> welcome rodarvus and enjoy the ride
[02:09] <rodarvus> as ogra mentioned, I'll work on OLPC, and, in theory :)
[02:09] <bluekuja> welcome man
[02:09] <flint> rodarvus, welcome, where you from?
[02:09] <rodarvus> will be the "Edubuntu Engineering Lead" - I promise to work hard on it :)
[02:09] <ogra> :)
[02:09] <rodarvus> flint: I'm from Brazil
[02:09] <rodarvus> JaneW, bluekuja: thanks :)
[02:10] <JaneW> where the nuts come from
[02:10] <flint> rodarvus, excellent.
[02:10] <JaneW> *hide*
[02:10] <ogra> heh
[02:10] <ogra> JaneW, nuts like kiko you mean ?
[02:10] <rodarvus> as a coincidence, Brazil is one of the countries which will very likely adopt OLPC in the very near future
[02:10] <JaneW> indeed
[02:10] <highvoltage> JaneW: you will be missed.
[02:10] <flint> JaneW, and good tek...
[02:10] <rodarvus> ogra: heh :D
[02:10] <JaneW> highvoltage: *bow*
[02:10] <bluekuja> rodarvus: np :)
[02:11] <rodarvus> I'm quite eager to meet you guys at Paris, next week (or in the future, for the ones who won't be able to be there)
[02:11] <rodarvus> specially ogra, of whom I have heard great things about :)
[02:11] <cbx33> wish I was going to Paris with you guys
[02:11] <flint> rodarvus, I would look forward to meeting you in Sao Paulo myself.  How close to the capitol do you live?
[02:12] <highvoltage> rodarvus: you're going to paris, cool!
[02:12] <ogra> cbx33, next time
[02:12] <cbx33> I hope so
[02:12] <ogra> rodarvus, i'm looking forward to it too ;)
[02:12] <rodarvus> in the next few hours I'll start commiting spec braindumps into Blueprint (mostly for OLPC, but also for Edubuntu and Ubuntu itself)
[02:12] <rodarvus> flint: I live in Curitiba, about 600km from So Paulo
[02:12] <highvoltage> :)
[02:12] <rodarvus> highvoltage: indeed!
[02:13] <flint> rodarvus, nice touch the tilde...
[02:13] <ogra> rodarvus, make sure to ping mdz and/or Keybuk about it they did the approval run yesterday already, so yours dont get lost
[02:13] <ogra> (for the specs that is)
[02:13] <cbx33> yeh I have 2 sitting in there that are awaiting approval
[02:13] <cbx33> be interesting to see if they get in
[02:13] <rodarvus> overall, the first days at Canonical have been great, already - I sense it will be a *magic* experience to be part of this great team! (in both meanings)
[02:14] <rodarvus> ogra: that will be great!
[02:14] <rodarvus> our OLPC target is not for Edgy, afaik (but I might be wrong)
[02:14] <flint> rodarvus, writing code remains the process of nailing jello to a wall...
[02:14] <flint> :^)
[02:14] <rodarvus> we'll surely have to discuss this a lot, next week :)
[02:15] <ogra> well, edgy would work if you had 10 monkeys coding for you :)
[02:15] <ogra> but given that mark doesnt hire monkeys, i tend to agree :)
[02:15] <rodarvus> right :)
[02:15] <flint> ogra, edgy would work if you had a blue-ray to write it to...
[02:15] <flint> :^)
[02:16] <ogra> flint, we'll fix the CDs
[02:16] <cbx33> wait what am I saying I already am
[02:16] <ogra> ok, next change ....
[02:16] <flint> LaserJock, I would prefer that you called us primates... :^)
[02:16] <ogra> we'll also get a new top level manager for edubuntu
[02:16] <cbx33> oooh?
[02:17] <flint> ogra, a TLM eh?
[02:17] <ogra> a so called "education program manager"
[02:17] <ogra> i know there are negotiations going on with someone, but i havent heard the final outcome yet, so i cant say much more
[02:18] <ogra> JaneW, do you know anything we could make public ?
[02:18] <JaneW> I think there is a signed agreement now
[02:18] <ogra> YAY
[02:18] <highvoltage> cool.
[02:18] <cbx33> w00t
[02:18] <rodarvus> great news :)
[02:18] <JaneW> but that's insider trading :P
[02:18] <ogra> hehe
[02:18] <rodarvus> haha
[02:18] <cbx33> JaneW: you naughty girl
[02:18] <JaneW> start date mid-July
[02:18] <highvoltage> JaneW: heh. are you giving it away there ;)
[02:18] <highvoltage> ?
[02:18] <LaserJock> hehe
[02:19] <JaneW> I wish it was me
[02:19] <JaneW> but it's not :(
[02:19] <cbx33> awww
[02:19] <DanielC> :(
[02:19] <JaneW> but it is someone I know very well
[02:19] <ogra> highvoltage, that job is up one or two levels in hirarchy (and payment i guess) compared to JaneW'S current job
[02:19] <ogra> edubuntu will be its own little department inside canonical now
[02:19] <flint> JaneW, I will miss you.
[02:20] <highvoltage> interesting.
[02:20] <cbx33> ogra: exdcellet
[02:20] <LaserJock> ogra: cool
[02:20] <cbx33> all the more reason to go to BETT2007 !!!
[02:20] <ogra> cbx33, something to discuss with our new manager then :)
[02:20] <highvoltage> ogra: i can't pretend that i understand it all 100%, but my instinct tells me that it will work out good.
[02:20] <flint> cbx33, do not forget NECC in Beautiful San Diego CA...
[02:20] <cbx33> indeed
[02:20] <LaserJock> ogra: so you, rodarvus and the new manager?
[02:20] <cbx33> flint: indeed
[02:20] <ogra> LaserJock, yeps
[02:20] <highvoltage> and EC?
[02:21] <JaneW> so the new program manager, who will look at getting edubuntu installed around the world is RichardW
[02:21] <flint> ogra, TLM == ECM?
[02:21] <highvoltage> EC will still vote new members, etc?
[02:21] <ogra> what about EC ?
[02:21] <ogra> sure
[02:21] <ogra> yeah
[02:21] <LaserJock> ogra: so what's your position? if you don't mind me asking ;-)
[02:21] <ogra> our new manager aalso is babysitter for JaneW's kids ;)
[02:21] <ogra> (sometimes)
[02:21] <highvoltage> also a parent of them :)
[02:21] <LaserJock> lol
[02:22] <bluekuja> highvoltage: :D
[02:22] <ogra> LaserJock, i'll report to rodarvus
[02:22] <JaneW> and I have full whipping power with them too
[02:22] <ogra> LaserJock, thats all i was told yet
[02:22] <flint> JaneW, Is your husband RichardW taking over?
[02:22] <highvoltage> ogra: is rodarvus like a mdz for edubuntu?
[02:22] <ogra> flint, hey, you grokked it !
[02:22] <flint> JaneW, not that this is a bad thing...
[02:23] <ogra> highvoltage, rather Richard ...
[02:23] <rodarvus> Richard is, I think
[02:23] <JaneW> flint: yes
[02:23] <flint> ogra, I am slow, but i make up for it by being pretty stoopid.... :^)
[02:23] <JaneW> ogra: I am not sure if he will be that *technically* involved, prolly more directional
[02:23] <flint> JaneW, that is pretty romantic (awwwwwwww!).
[02:23] <ogra> just on a sidenote, i'm not happy about not having mdz in the reporting chain
[02:23] <JaneW> ogra and rodarvus will be the technical gurus still
[02:24] <JaneW> flint: pah! :P
[02:24] <rodarvus> actually, I'm still quite new to emit opinions, but I think mdz is kind of unique
[02:24] <highvoltage> ogra: i was thinking the same thing, but decided not to say anything, since it doesn't affect me personally.
[02:24] <flint> ogra, mdz will be in London.  Trust me he will be in the chain big time.
[02:24] <rodarvus> in terms of management & techincal skills
[02:24] <ogra> rodarvus, we'll be doing a lot stuff inside the ubuntu distro team, we should talk with sabdfl in paris about the structure
[02:24] <ogra> i think distro team lead involvement is essential (but thats only me)
[02:25] <rodarvus> so I believe it will require involved teamwork to reach the standard of quality mdz has on his work
[02:25] <ogra> yeah
[02:25] <flint> while mdz can be distant, abstract and generally annoying anywere he will be directly applied when he resides in London....
[02:25] <rodarvus> ogra: sure, I agree
[02:25] <flint> and I mean that in the nicest way...
[02:25] <ogra> but we dont develop very much thats unique usually (OLPC might change that)
[02:25] <ogra> usually we change ubuntu distro packages ...
[02:25] <cbx33> ogra: indeed
[02:26] <cbx33> so really big changes then
[02:26] <ogra> adding a feature or two ...
[02:26] <flint> ogra, what the heck is OLPC?
[02:26] <rodarvus> OLPC might change that radically (but this is talk for paris ;) )
[02:26] <ogra> but well, that something to discuss with sabdfl
[02:26] <rodarvus> flint: http://www.laptop.org/
[02:26] <JaneW> I am pretty certain mdz will stay involved
[02:26] <rodarvus> its a acronym for One Laptop per Child
[02:27] <flint> oh yea One Laptop Per Child...
[02:27] <ogra> JaneW, not in the structure overview i got from sabdfl ...
[02:27] <flint> the MIT thang...
[02:27] <rodarvus> flint: right, it has lots of potential for students, specially in developing countries
[02:28] <flint> I presume that a OLPC terminal will pixie boot just like anything else eh?
[02:28] <ogra> flint, terminal ?
[02:28] <JaneW> hi pips1
[02:28] <rodarvus> what means "pixie boot"?
[02:28] <flint> rodarvus, the only problem would be the RF link.
[02:28] <ogra> rodarvus, PXE
[02:28] <pips1> hi JaneW
[02:28] <rodarvus> ohh
[02:29] <rodarvus> flint: no. the OLPC hardware has its own flash card (about 500mb large, btw)
[02:29] <ogra> flint, you cant PXE boot wireless devices and i doubt the plan for OLPC is to tie the kids to a LAN wire
[02:29] <pips1> JaneW, I really am a bit sad to see you go.
[02:30] <flint> ogra, I am slow this morning, the Edubuntu thing has always been a server that ties kid computers into a classrooms together
[02:30] <rodarvus> the OLPC hardware quite specialized - plas for battery life are 24h, uses mesh wifi instead of normal wifi, small memory/storage
[02:30] <rodarvus> s/plas/plans/
[02:30] <flint> ogra, now with the big flash, shared storage could be a thing.
[02:30] <ogra> flint, yes, thats one of edubuntus areas
[02:30] <ogra> (ltsp)
[02:30] <flint> rodarvus, I smell a fork.
[02:30] <ogra> but onlya one of many you can cover with edubuntu
[02:30] <rodarvus> OLPC also "includes" one (or more) server(s) on the school
[02:30] <highvoltage> rodarvus: so you like franks sinatra heh? :)
[02:30] <rodarvus> but students can take their notebooks home
[02:31] <rodarvus> highvoltage: indeed - how do you learned that? :)
[02:31] <flint> rodarvus, you have big problems running LTSP on wifi.
[02:31] <ogra> i'm really looking forward in rodarvus work for ltsp, since a shrunk down system will help us a lot there
[02:32] <ogra> i.e. i can use the embedded stuff for the ltsp clients and cut down a lot of ram requirement i guess
[02:32] <rodarvus> exactly
[02:32] <highvoltage> rodarvus: your blog page
[02:32] <rodarvus> highvoltage: oh :)
[02:32] <flint> ogra, if it gets faster I vote for it (if I voted...)
[02:33] <flint> :^)
[02:33] <ogra> highvoltage, we all need to learn brazilian now :)
[02:33] <flint> ogra, Portugese...
[02:33] <ogra> well
[02:33] <ogra> :)
[02:34] <ogra> shall we move on with the agenda ? we're at 30min
[02:34] <flint> ogra np :^)
[02:34] <rodarvus> actually, brazilian portuguese
[02:34] <rodarvus> :)
[02:34] <ogra> :)
[02:35] <flint> rodarvus, never could spell anything.
[02:35] <bluekuja> ogra: well I added a point in agenda regarding the Testers Team, to discuss about membership guidelines, todo list etc
[02:35] <bluekuja> with all of you
[02:35] <ogra> from the tech side there is not much i can tell yet, the archive isnt ready for uploads yet, so no packaging work is going on atm ...
[02:35] <bluekuja> to decide a stable guideline for the future
[02:36] <ogra> we have a bunch of approved specs for paris that are listed on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuEdgyIdeas
[02:36] <flint> ogra, we would like to add gin.  is this the place?
[02:36] <ogra> i'm subscribed to most of them in launchpad so you can find another overview that also shows the status under https://launchpad.net/people/ogra/+specs
[02:37] <ogra> flint, gin ?
[02:37] <flint> gnome instant nationalization.  helps a lot when setting network xterms up.
[02:37] <ogra> flint, you mean https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/ltsp-login-and-session-handling
[02:37] <ogra> ?
[02:38] <flint> ogra, na, dclug wrote this quickie.  I started and competent folks finished it in python.
[02:38] <ogra> seems mdz didnt see any urge for that, it hasnt even gotten a priority assigned
[02:38] <flint> i suppose mdz does not spend too much time using edubuntu eh?
[02:39] <flint> it is necessary
[02:39] <ogra> flint, we wont tolerate scripts that change /etc/environment or other files that are forbidden to be touched by debian policy
[02:39] <flint> ogra, how do we do this?
[02:39] <ogra> its not the way to solve your prob, i told you this seberal times already
[02:39] <ogra> gdm or ldm are the right place to attack it
[02:39] <flint> the program is written and it works.
[02:40] <ogra> (depending which one we'll use in the future)
[02:40] <flint> the program is vital to multi lingual systems.  https://wiki.edubuntu.org/gin
[02:40] <ogra> flint, it breaks the systems, /etc/environment *has not to be touched by anything* in a debian based system
[02:41] <ogra> we discussed it before
[02:41] <flint> ok how do we gain the functionality?
[02:41] <ogra> its not something to solve with a hack
[02:41] <ogra> do it in the right place which is the login manager in this case
[02:42] <flint> ogra, i am a hacker.  this hack is to demonstrate the requirement.
[02:42] <highvoltage> sorry, had an interuption (/me catches up)
[02:42] <flint> ogra, I wish I could program, but likely i am too old :^)
[02:42] <ogra> flint, you apparently *can* program ;)
[02:42] <ogra> just do it in the right place ;)
[02:43] <flint> ogra, I want to know how to do this.
[02:43] <ogra> ldm has all functionallity to set the language since its become themed ...
[02:44] <flint> ogra, I will take a look.
[02:44] <ogra> the problem is to determine the list of langs from the server, if thats solved it takes me less than a minute to enable the selection menu
[02:44] <ogra> (in the code)
[02:44] <ogra> aything else for the tech side ?
[02:45] <ogra> flint, btw, will we see you in paris ?
[02:45] <flint> ogra, I just bought a house in Barre Vermont. and while I would like nothing better than a ciggi break with the likes of you, I need to renovate this victorian monstrosity my wife bought.
[02:46] <flint> :^)
[02:46] <flint> ogra, I will get the next one, promise.
[02:46] <ogra> heh, good luck :)
[02:46] <ogra> seems to be the time tio change houses ...
[02:46] <flint> ogra, thanks, exactly!!!
[02:47] <flint> ogra, not you too?
[02:47] <ogra> flint, i'm currently moving to this one http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/CIMG0517.JPG
[02:47] <rodarvus> flint: I feel your pain - we moved to our new apartment two months ago
[02:47] <rodarvus> its new, but many, many things had to be done to make it actually a enjoyable place to be
[02:47] <cbx33> :(
[02:48] <ogra> cbx33, inherit ;)
[02:48] <cbx33> heh
[02:48] <ogra> (best case from an unknown secret rich uncle)
[02:48] <rodarvus> ogra: its a beautiful place!
[02:48] <cbx33> well, what's left on the agenda?
[02:48] <LaserJock> ogra: nice, much bigger then my place in the middle of the Nevada desert ;-)
[02:48] <cbx33> seeing as we have 10 mins :p
[02:49] <flint> you folks throw a hell of a meeting...
[02:49] <ogra> rodarvus, well, i like my current place more, but thats rented, and for the new one we dont have to pay anything
[02:49] <cbx33> LaserJock: is an alien
[02:49] <ogra> ok, lest move on else we'll be out of time
[02:49] <ogra> do we have anything for artwork ?
[02:49] <ogra> (me guesses not yet)
[02:50] <cbx33> hmm
[02:50] <LaserJock> cbx33: oops, I was trying to keep it a secret ;-)
[02:50] <ogra> documentation ?
[02:50] <cbx33> no thought AliasVegas has said she wants piccies of you all to do the edubuntu homie lookalikes :p
[02:51] <ogra> cbx33, but thats something we still have 4 months time for :)
[02:51] <ogra> any doc stuff ?
[02:51] <highvoltage> my lag is bad too :(
[02:51] <LaserJock> is pygi here? the cookbook people had a meeting yesterday
[02:51] <ogra> (i saw you are working with the doc team now)
[02:52] <cbx33> um, I'm hoping to fix up ESA into it's printed state soon
[02:52] <flint> ogra, I should have something for you doc wise by next week.
[02:52] <ogra> flint, cool
[02:52] <flint> ogra, np.
[02:52] <ogra> flint, i'll really miss you in my cigarette breaks in paris ...
[02:53] <LaserJock> ogra: I'm not sure what cookbook people are doing exactly, but it is getting worked on, I think
[02:53] <ogra> ok, i think we handled management at the beginning and community stuff during general sidetracked chatter :)
[02:54] <ogra> the cookbook developed its own dynamic so i'm confident whats going on is good atm
[02:54] <flint> ogra, me too.  I will get you next time.
[02:54] <ogra> so we have bluekuja left, do you want to chair for your topics ?
[02:54] <ogra> 7me hands bluekuja the microphone
[02:55] <bluekuja> yeah, oliver
[02:55] <ogra> * Edubuntu Testing Team review: membership,TODO,future (AndreaVeri)
[02:55] <bluekuja> well, I want to talk with all of you about the -testing team, to create some guidelines about membership etc
[02:55] <cbx33> come on bluekuja you have 5 mins
[02:56] <ogra> about the future, i'd like to point the team to sfllaw, who is our QA specialist
[02:56] <JaneW> pips1: lol
[02:56] <rodarvus> pips1: thanks :)
[02:56] <ogra> you should work together with him on testing plans and the like
[02:56] <highvoltage> ogra: you've mentioned it before, I'll get sfllaw to join our next edubuntu meeting. he'll be in paris, right?
[02:56] <ogra> yep
[02:57] <bluekuja> ogra: ok great, anyway do you think we need to create some guidelines about the team? creating a working TODO list
[02:57] <bluekuja> and more
[02:57] <ogra> sure, go ahead :)
[02:57] <rodarvus> we can also tip him him in paris, if necessary ;)
[02:57] <ogra> rodarvus, really ? we have a budget for that ??
[02:58] <cbx33> I have to go in a while :( meeting soon
[02:58] <LaserJock> ogra: community donations ;-)
[02:58] <cbx33> in like 3 minutes :(
[02:58] <ogra> haha
[02:58] <cbx33> nice idea LaserJock
[02:58] <bluekuja> ogra: well, I'll try to create some guidelines alone, so we can discuss them at the next meeting. Some ideas to start?
[02:59] <ogra> as i said, sfllaw will be the best person to start with ... i dont see the need for guidelines to join the team or something ...
[02:59] <LaserJock> bluekuja: I'd talk to the BugSquad (aka sfllaw and #ubuntu-bugs) and check around the wiki
[02:59] <rodarvus> bluekuja: seriously, I believe approaching sfllaw (on irc) is a great start
[02:59] <bluekuja> LaserJock, ogra: perfect
[02:59] <ogra> whoops, my baker just arrived, i need to quicky get some bread
[03:00] <pips1> lol
[03:00] <cbx33> oooh nice
[03:00] <bluekuja> yeah, i work with sfflaw with packages too, so it wouldn't be a problem for it
[03:00] <cbx33> shute i gotta run peeps, meeting time is over for me
[03:00] <pips1> ogra, that's a proper german. :-D
[03:00] <cbx33> I'll see you back ing #edubuntu
[03:01] <cbx33> pips1: feel free to take my hand
[03:01] <LaserJock> cya cbx33
[03:01] <cbx33> :p
[03:01] <flint> ogra, we call it liquid bread :^)
[03:01] <pips1> flint hehe
[03:01] <bluekuja> cbx33: soon we'll have ESA in italian too
[03:01] <pips1> cbx33 ok, cu
[03:01] <flint> bluekuja, what is an ESA?
[03:01] <LaserJock> flint: Edubuntu School Advocacy
[03:01] <bluekuja> edubuntu school advocacy document
[03:02] <flint> bluekuja, got a url?
[03:02] <bluekuja> yeah,http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/school-advocacy/C/index.html
[03:02] <flint> bluekuja, in italiano e piu bene!
[03:02] <bluekuja> :D
[03:02] <rodarvus> pips1: I believe ogra is away for a little while - would you like to go on?
[03:03] <cbx33> ESA is also on www.edubuntu.org/UsingEdubuntu
[03:03] <flint> A marketing document at last!!! bluekuja you done good!!!!!
[03:03] <bluekuja> we have to say thanks to cbx33
[03:03] <cbx33> I ported it to there
[03:03] <bluekuja> that started it
[03:03] <cbx33> and I'll be deleting it from the wiki
[03:03] <bluekuja> and had this great idea
[03:03] <highvoltage> sorry for my quietness the last week. it's been tough, everything seems to happen at the the same time :/
[03:03] <pips1> rodarvus, well, I just want to ask all you guys who are attenting paris to try to push for another edubuntu summit, with educators, rather than developers-only :)
[03:03] <bluekuja> np highvoltage
[03:04] <flint> highvoltage, Jonathan, how bad?  Death bad?
[03:04] <LaserJock> pips1: what? devs don't know everything? ;-)
[03:04] <rodarvus> pips1: sure, I believe we can also push this subject with RichardW, when he arrives next month
[03:04] <pips1> who of you guys is going to paris?
[03:04] <highvoltage> flint: no, not quite that bad :)
[03:05] <flint> pips1, the educators were the meeting in london.
[03:05] <ogra> re
[03:05] <pips1> LaserJock :)
[03:05] <bluekuja> Unfortunately I won't be there
[03:05] <flint> highvoltage, Girlfriend bad (that is pretty bad...)
[03:05] <cbx33> my hand
[03:05] <highvoltage> flint: slightly worse that that. but the recovery should be quicker.
[03:05] <cbx33> can I grab it back
[03:05] <pips1> flint starting rumors again? ;-)
[03:05] <ogra> pips1, our new manager will surely care for edubuntu summits/sprints
[03:06] <flint> highvoltage, Jonathan you need a trip to Sao Paulo!
[03:06] <pips1> ogra right, cool
[03:06] <highvoltage> flint: indeed, but let's talk about that later. we're just making noise now :)
[03:06] <flint> highvoltage, sorry gotcha...
[03:06] <bluekuja> ogra: do you think would be possible to have a it.edubuntu.org pointed to edubuntu page in italian loco team page?
[03:07] <ogra> i'm not sure about the naming scheme, but i guess its possible
[03:07] <flint> bluekuja, you may want to talk to Kevin Cole of the dcloco team who already went through that loop sucessfully.
[03:07] <ogra> highvoltage, has some experience with the webserver and dns things ...
[03:07] <highvoltage> znarl could organise that, alhtough he seems to be quite busy atm.
[03:07] <highvoltage> i've been trying to get hold of him for the past 3 days.
[03:07] <ogra> is it very urgent ?
[03:07] <bluekuja> nope
[03:07] <bluekuja> :)
[03:08] <bluekuja> it would be a great thing, but I can wait
[03:08] <ogra> oki, highvoltage would you poke him about that or pint bluekuja in teh right direction  ?
[03:08] <flint> bluekuja, seriously, try kcole
[03:08] <ogra> *point too
[03:08] <bluekuja> flint: ok, I'll try to ping him
[03:08] <highvoltage> bluekuja: i'll talk to znarl about it when i get hold of him. i PM'ed him about an hour ago, when he returns he'll get back to me, he's very efficient that way.
[03:09] <bluekuja> ok perfect, thanks
[03:09] <highvoltage> ogra: yep
[03:09] <ogra> jsgotangco, you missed all the fun :P
[03:09] <flint> bluekuja<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[03:09] <ogra> highvoltage, thanks a lot
[03:09] <highvoltage> my pleasure.
[03:09] <bluekuja> filnt: thanks
[03:09] <jsgotangco> ogra: sorry it was a long day for me (visa and everything else)
[03:09] <bluekuja> *flint
[03:10] <bluekuja> ok that's all
[03:10] <LaserJock> cbx33: you had something to say?
[03:10] <pips1> highvoltage, cbx33, should we try to set a time for a edubuntu website irc meet? to nudge things further along?
[03:10] <ogra> jsgotangco, *you* did miss the fnu, not me ... no need to apologize :)
[03:10] <ogra> the fun too
[03:10] <cbx33> pips1: sure
[03:10] <cbx33> LaserJock: just a little
[03:10] <ogra> ok, looks like we're done with the meeting then ...
[03:11] <ogra> anything urgent we missed ?
[03:11] <highvoltage> pips1: yes, can we do it after paris though? i'm flooded with work atm, and my visa problems didn't help much there either, i nearly lost two days worth of work
[03:11] <cbx33> nope
[03:11] <pips1> cbx33 are evenings ok for you? highvoltage seems more available in evenings rather than daytime...
[03:11] <pips1> highvoltage oic :-/
[03:11] <cbx33> pips1: yup
[03:11] <highvoltage> yes, evenings are better for me, generally.
[03:11] <ogra> so i'd say: meeting adjourned, please move over to #edubuntu to make the room free for xubuntu
[03:11] <ogra> thanks all
[03:11] <highvoltage> at the moment my work flows over to evenings too :/
[03:12] <rodarvus> thank you
[03:12] <pips1> thanks
[06:55] <chombee> \quit
[07:50] <scwizard> if the meeting was EST instead of GMT then it'd be in 10 minutes
[07:50] <scwizard> that's why I logged on to IRC >.<
[08:01] <Sionide> :)
[10:34] <Sp4rKy> hi
[11:11] <Sp4rKy> what's the next date for new ubuntu members candidates ?
[11:11] <bluekuja> Sp4rKy, community council agenda can help you
[11:12] <Sp4rKy> bluekuja, i'd just look at it , but i don't see a date for this
[11:12] <bluekuja> when the cc will decide date, that page will be updated
[11:12] <bluekuja> :)
[11:13] <Sp4rKy> k :)
[11:13] <Sp4rKy> so i just need wait :)


[03:12] <guillem101> An absolutely newbie question: some java apps do look like gtk apps (like eclipse, azureus) meanwhile others use java aesthetics as it is the case of Yale. Can I configure somewhat Yale to look as GTK?
[03:14] <guillem101> (screenshot of Yale at: http://rapid-i.com/images/stories/rapidi/yale/screenshots/screenshot02.gif)


[13:10] <astraljava> skaet: Apologies for sending the mail a little late. But there was not that much to report anyway. I'm going to miss the meeting, too, so if there are any questions for Xubuntu, please let me know and I can get the answers afterwards.
[13:13] <astraljava> grr... sorry about that. I should know better to not touch the Enter key when I have connection problems.