[11:10] <bazhang> going to remove taev
[11:10] <ikonia> @mark #ubuntu Taev
[11:10] <ikonia> marking him - lets give him time
[11:11] <ikonia> I was typing the mark as you said you would remove him, so we are both in sync
[11:11] <bazhang> he's had way enough latitude and warnings
[11:11] <ikonia> I agree, one more and he's gone
[11:14] <ikonia> what the hell is going on in #ubuntu with the current users
[11:18] <ikonia> what a surprise Kwpolska is on a shellium account
[11:33] <ikonia> I've put a forward on all shellium accounts to #ubuntu-ops to get an exception for the moment.  He'll bore eventually.
[12:23] <ikonia> sounds good,
[12:45] <beltran> hey niggers what it be?
[12:45] <beltran> !ops ubottu
[12:46] <gnomefreak> keep eye on ubuverify
[12:46] <gnomefreak> in #u
[12:52] <gnomefreak> elky: care to forward him here? xdpirate  im not sure how to do that yet, i havent had time to figure it out
[12:52] <gnomefreak> see his quit message
[12:55] <elky> there, i referred to the ban list and copied, i hope it works
[12:55] <gnomefreak> thanks
[12:59] <elky> i've also forwarded beltran subnet here for the time being
[13:02] <gnomefreak> we now show oped actions in this channel :)
[13:14] <ikonia> ahhh the magic of kline
[13:20] <ikonia> done
[13:35] <ikonia> eyes on niglop in #xubuntu
[13:35] <ikonia> %99.9999999999 certain troll
[13:39] <knome> mm-hmm
[13:47] <gnomefreak> ikonia: feel free to remove him/ban him/ as needed in #x
[13:47] <ikonia> he's gone hasn't he ?
[13:48] <gnomefreak> i removed him that is all i know of him
[13:48] <ikonia> ah, he won't be back
[13:48] <knome> probably will... ;)
[13:49] <knome> maybe #kubuntu ;)
[13:49] <gnomefreak> if he did it in #u than moved to #x he will be back
[13:49] <ikonia> nope, I'll put  money on it
[13:49] <gnomefreak> if he does use another of our channels i would ask that staff get involved
[13:49] <knome> ikonia has probably secrectly banned him
[13:49] <knome> ;)
[13:51] <gnomefreak> ok another smoke be back
[13:54] <knome> hey Daviey :)
[13:54] <Daviey> het knome o/
[13:54] <Daviey> hey*
[13:54] <knome> isn't het dutch?
[13:55] <knome> Daviey, how's your wardrobe?
[14:45] <IdleOne> FYI niglop runs Mint
[15:06] <hdpb> i was banned from ubuntu irc, but i am not sure why.  could someone please explain?  Thank you
[15:08] <IdleOne> hdpb: what other nicks do you use?
[15:09] <hdpb> this is the only one.  I've used it for months, but just registered it.  tried to log in today and it says i've been banned.  Thank you for your help.
[15:09] <ikonia> it's just because you're using web chat
[15:09] <ikonia> you should have been redirected to #ubuntu-proxy-users
[15:11] <hdpb> thank you.  would connecting thru empathy avoid the issue?
[15:11] <elky> Most likely.
[15:12] <hdpb> thank you again.  I will give that a try.  enjoy your day/evening!
[15:29] <Mamarok> I need to run, somebody should watch Dan_L and vot in #kubuntu, they seem to have some strange conceptions of what language is
[15:32] <ikonia> ok
[16:08] <ikonia> Traveler8: hi
[16:08] <ikonia> thanks for joining
[16:08] <Traveler8> -.- you..
[16:09] <ikonia> ?
[16:09] <Traveler8> sigh.. anyway, am i banned from #ubuntu-offtopic?
[16:09] <ikonia> sorry, what do you mean ?
[16:09] <ikonia> 16:08 < Traveler8> -.- you..
[16:09] <ikonia> what did that mean ?
[16:09] <Traveler8> i'm not even sure if your the  one that banned me in the first place.. so disregard that comment pls
[16:10] <ikonia> what did that comment mean
[16:10] <Traveler8> ... as far as i know, you have been helpful to me... pls disregard that comment..
[16:10] <ikonia> Traveler8: what did the comment mean
[16:10] <Traveler8> am i banned from any channels currently?
[16:10] <IdleOne> I would guess a childish attempt at saying " I'm upset "
[16:10] <ikonia> Traveler8: answer the question and we'll progress
[16:11] <ikonia> there we go
[16:11] <IdleOne> I did not see any bans
[16:12] <gord> uh, that didn't feel right
[16:12] <ikonia> it's not
[16:12] <gord> i mean the hounding on one question
[16:12] <ikonia> why ?
[16:12] <ikonia> he makes a comment to me, I want to know what it means before I start
[16:13] <ikonia> not unreasonable
[16:13] <gord> they apologised and wanted to move on, didn't seem right to keep hounding
[16:13] <ikonia> I didn't ask for an aplogy
[16:13] <ikonia> I asked what he meant
[16:13] <ikonia> the fact that he wouldn't tell me
[16:14] <ikonia> the first comment to someone who's trying to fix something for him, was random, I wanted to know what he meant
[16:14] <gord> the hounding felt aggressive and a bit abrasive is all
[16:14] <ikonia> I asked clear and clear and clear
[16:14] <ikonia> it's not hard to respond to a question
[16:16] <gord> thats not really what i am saying it wasn't how you asked, it was the refusal to move on, im just saying it felt aggressive and abrasive
[16:17] <ikonia> why would I move on with someone who refuses to answer a simple question ?
[16:17] <ikonia> he said he couldn't get into offtopic, I asked him to join here to help him, he makes a random comment, I want to know what it means before I progress
[16:17] <ikonia> it's that simple
[16:18] <ikonia> sorry to be harsh on that, but we spend time going through this with people, it's not hard to answer someone
[16:19] <gord> well lets put it this way, the guy left, it doesn't seem that he's actually banned, maybe just caught up in someone elses ban, maybe its a nice person but now we'll never know
[16:19] <ikonia> his first line in -ops was something he had to apologise for
[16:19] <ikonia> which from googling means "fuck you"
[16:19] <ikonia> the guy left because of his attitude
[16:20] <ikonia> the fact that he's asking in #ubuntu now for help with farscape running in firefox does not fill me with confidence on his intentions
[16:20] <gord> i don't think thats what his first line means at all
[16:20] <ikonia> what do you think it means ?
[16:20] <gord> "-.-" is an emoted face squinted eye face
[16:21] <ikonia> and the ...you
[16:21] <gord> the you refers to them thinking they had a problem with you, but then he realised he was confusing you with someone else and asked you to disregard
[16:21] <ikonia> then that's all he had to say
[16:21] <charlie-tca> Why else would he not expand on it? He refused to say what it meant knowing he was in trouble for it
[16:22] <ikonia> I don't know why he couldn't get in, I was going to try and help him, but if someone can't answer a simple question, why should I bother progressing it to more complex discussion
[16:23] <bazhang> not banned in -ot afaict
[16:23] <ikonia> I don't think he is either, hence why I asked him here to help him
[16:23] <gord> is this really how we are supposed to react to people? to start aggressively hounding them on a single turn of phrase which they admitted was misguided? essentially a guy joins, didn't maybe understand how much gravity there is on here for some reason and then got scared off
[16:23] <ikonia> gord: are we supposed to waste our time with people who won't respond to questions ?
[16:23] <gord> this is certainly not the ubuntu community spirit i know
[16:24] <bazhang> didn't see the 'hounding' tbh
[16:24] <ikonia> I called him in to help him and asked him a question on a commment HE chose to make
[16:24] <gord> ikonia, yes pretty much, part of the job
[16:24] <ikonia> no it's not
[16:24] <ikonia> I wanted to know what he meant before progressing
[16:24] <ikonia> the job is to resolve issues
[16:25] <IdleOne> I have asked him to return so we can figure out why he is unable to join
[16:25] <ikonia> why ?
[16:26] <IdleOne> Traveler8: thank you for comming back
[16:26] <Traveler8> yea, i'm typing it just as its told to me.... and it's not joining
[16:26] <IdleOne> are you getting any errors?
[16:26] <Traveler8> no errors given =/
[16:26] <IdleOne> check your Server tab or Status tab
[16:26] <IdleOne> anything in there?
[16:27] <ikonia> Kwpolska: welcome back, we'll be with you shortly
[16:28] <IdleOne> Traveler8: show us what command you re using to join #ubuntu-offtopic
[16:28] <Traveler8> no i don't see any error messages in chat or on server window, in this java chat..
[16:28] <Traveler8> "/join #ubuntu-offtopic
[16:29] <Traveler8> is it case sensitive?
[16:29] <IdleOne> Well without any errors and no apparent ban set. I don't see why you can't join.
[16:29] <IdleOne> Traveler8: no it isn't case sensitive
[16:29] <gord> do we have any modes set on #u-o that restrict to registered only? i wouldn't of thought so
[16:30] <IdleOne> gord: I don't believe so
[16:30] <elky> I wouldn't be so sure there's no ban.
[16:30] <ikonia> gord: no, I checked the web chat bans, and it should be fine
[16:30] <Traveler8> it was like this before i got banned... which is probably why i got banned.. i told the ops that i could not join and that #ubuntuhelp and ubuntustudio..were the only channels i could join..
[16:30] <ikonia> oh, so you know you got banned
[16:30] <Traveler8> yea....
[16:30] <ikonia> what nick name where you using
[16:31] <Traveler8> it was rediculous..but yes
[16:31] <Traveler8> uh, ubufool maybe?
[16:31] <Traveler8> i've used a buncha nick specific to my issues
[16:32] <Traveler8> but this was an ip ban...it didnt matter what nick was used..
[16:32] <ikonia> found it
[16:32] <elky> He's been banned as Traveler*!*@* before.
[16:32] <ikonia> I rememebr you
[16:32] <Traveler8> o.0? cool?
[16:32] <Traveler8> ???
[16:32] <bazhang> grexo?
[16:32] <ikonia> you wouldn't stop talking about overclocking and started being rude when people told you to stop
[16:32] <Traveler8> i have never used curse words in my nick...
[16:33] <Traveler8> and i was never rude
[16:33] <ikonia> no-one said you used curse words in your nick
[16:33] <ikonia> yes you where
[16:33] <ikonia> people asked you to stop going on about overclocking, people told you the tools you wanted to use where not the right tools
[16:33] <Traveler8> the op was rude tho...i wil not argue over this again..
[16:33] <ikonia> no he wasn't
[16:33] <Traveler8> pls stop...
[16:33] <ikonia> multiple people told you, you got warning kicks, and ended up banned
[16:33] <Traveler8> stop..
[16:34] <elky> If he stops, the ban stays unresolved.
[16:34] <ikonia> it's fine, the ban is staying from my point of view
[16:34] <ikonia> I remember this guy now
[16:34] <IdleOne> Traveler8: the issue here is not wether you believe the ban was justified or not. Please keep in mind we are here to help you.
[16:34] <Traveler8> -.- i wasn't rude, i did not disobey anyones wishes..i wasn't even gievn the chance to ask other questions or reply to people who were helping me...
[16:35] <IdleOne> Traveler8: what does -.- mean?
[16:35] <Traveler8> frustraed face...
[16:35] <ikonia> you where rude, you wouldn't stop talking about overclocking despite people pointing you tot he right place, and explaining the tools in ubuntu where the wrong tools
[16:35] <Traveler8> frustrated
[16:36] <Traveler8> i understood the tools were not correct...the first time i wa told.. i didnt need the op continueing in circles over something that was already stated..
[16:36] <bazhang> pazsion was the nick
[16:36] <Traveler8> yes
[16:36] <ikonia> Traveler8: you did not stop
[16:37] <bazhang> and since removed. dont see a ban in -ot though
[16:37] <Traveler8> rly? are we going to do this again?
[16:37] <Traveler8> can we stop this or do we need more discussion?
[16:37] <bazhang> you have had the ban removed in #ubuntu Traveler8
[16:37] <ikonia> cpufreqhelp5
[16:38] <ikonia> that was one of the other nicks
[16:38] <Traveler8> yes
[16:38] <bazhang> did you wish to resolve why you cannot join #ubuntu-offtopic Traveler8
[16:38] <Traveler8> yes
[16:40] <bazhang> Traveler8, what about a right click on this -->  #ubuntu-offtopic  and choose join channel
[16:41] <bazhang> not sure the command for the java client sorry
[16:42] <Traveler8> a hand comes up, left or right clicking does nothing..
[16:42] <Traveler8> usually it would join
[16:42] <bazhang> and a simple /join #ubuntu-offtopic   ?
[16:42] <Traveler8> hasn't worked since before the ban
[16:42] <bazhang> odd
[16:43] <bazhang> don't see any bans in the list for you
[16:43] <Traveler8> i've only been able to join it once..
[16:43] <Traveler8> oooh...wth is frigg version?
[16:44] <bazhang> utility bot for freenode
[16:44] <Traveler8> now it says idleone version xD
[16:44] <IdleOne> Traveler8: your client appears to be beta
[16:44] <Traveler8> but still can't join
[16:44] <IdleOne> Traveler8: yes I did a version request on you
[16:45] <bazhang> Traveler8, tried a more conventional client?
[16:45] <Traveler8> loading xchat..
[16:45] <bazhang> this one I know
[16:46] <bazhang> and you're in
[16:46] <Traveler8> is pp1010 banned here?
[16:46] <bazhang> not that I know of
[16:46] <Traveler8> how strange..
[16:47] <IdleOne> you able to join #test-this with that client?
[16:48] <IdleOne> who knows
[16:48] <IdleOne> anyway you're in now
[16:48] <IdleOne> have a good day, follow the rules please
[16:48] <Traveler8> good
[16:48] <Traveler8> xD
[16:48] <Traveler8> i try...
[16:48] <Traveler8> rly i do..
[16:48] <bazhang> yep
[16:48] <IdleOne> There is no try.
[16:49] <bazhang> just chat in -ot and all is good
[16:49] <Traveler8> well, i'm not gonna argue.. what happened happend however wrong either of us was
[16:49] <bazhang> thanks for joining
[16:49] <Traveler8> ty again
[16:49] <elky> very trying.
[16:49] <bazhang> </yoda?
[16:50] <bazhang> whoops >
[16:50] <IdleOne> bazhang: yeah, Star Trek quote didn't come to mind :)
[16:50] <bazhang> IdleOne, heh
[16:52] <elky> I'll start the stopwatch.
[16:54] <ikonia> first line in pp1010 asks about the overclocking tools again
[16:54] <elky> More specifically, if he's going to get "reamed"
[16:54] <elky> "i know it's bad, but plz can i?"
[16:55] <IdleOne> If we expect failure no matter how hard a person tries we will find a reason to fail them
[16:55] <ikonia> what ?/??
[16:55] <ikonia> are you serious
[16:56] <IdleOne> yes.
[16:56] <ikonia> no-one expected failure, but his first line in the channel you've just helped him to get in was the exact topic that got him banned
[16:56] <IdleOne> I don't see how is overclocking question is offtopic for -ot
[16:56] <ikonia> IdleOne: he was asking/pushing how to use ubuntu to overclock his hardware, he got banned for this because everyone explained it was done at a hardware level,
[16:56] <IdleOne> I have seen 3 hour long conversations (flame wars) about the best gaming console on -ot
[16:56] <ikonia> you saw from this channel when talking about his ban in #ubuntu he undertood and accepted that
[16:57] <ikonia> his first line in #ubuntu-offtopic was the same topic
[16:57] <ikonia> he quotes a fantasy page that says these are the tools
[16:57] <ikonia> this was the exact time wasting conversation that got him banned
[16:57] <IdleOne> ikonia: ok so he doesn't understand that it is a hardware issue and not a software issue
[16:57] <ikonia> he does understand
[16:57] <ikonia> he's trolling
[16:58] <gord> him asking these questions in -ot doesn't seem to be bothering anyone and i don't really see any indication of trolling, maybe misunderstanding but thats about it
[16:58] <ikonia> hence why he asked about running a game in firefox knowing it's a native game
[16:58] <IdleOne> well I am not in there so I am going to keep my opinion to myself about it.
[16:58] <bazhang> much worse happens in -ot on a regular basis with zero action taken
[16:58] <elky> IdleOne, known troll technique in linux channels; find something (real or not) that linux can't do and insist on persisting to ask how to do it.
[16:58] <ikonia> gord: ok - lets see the link he's referencing
[16:59] <IdleOne> elky: is it possible that he is just a kid who wants to overclock his machine
[16:59] <ikonia> IdleOne: read the logs of #ubuntu when he got banned
[16:59] <ikonia> Sary: hi there, how can we help
[16:59] <elky> IdleOne, not after this long. He has to be a kid who is never going to be able to be educated in anything ever.
[17:00] <Sary> Hello there
[17:00] <IdleOne> wow.
[17:00] <ikonia> Sary: hi, what's up and how can we help you today ?
[17:00] <ikonia> I notice the link he's referencing is still not coming
[17:00] <bazhang> he's not bothering #ubuntu and its not offtopic for offtopic
[17:01] <Sary> We got the lubotu3 , is it an answering bot or such
[17:01] <elky> bazhang, trolling is offtopic for offtopic. baiting is offtopic for offtopic.
[17:01] <bazhang> Sary, in #ubuntu-eg ?
[17:01] <ikonia> Sary: which channel
[17:01] <ikonia> Sary: and yes, it will respond to queries
[17:01] <Sary> #ubuntu-sa
[17:01] <gord> he's fine in -ot as it is, if it gets to a trolling point then i'll deal with it then, but as of now, its fine
[17:02] <Sary> i mean how can we use it , in commands !
[17:02] <ikonia> gord: I'd like to see the link he references for this fantasy question
[17:02] <ikonia> genuinly
[17:02] <bazhang> elky, most of the users in there would have to be banned then. lots of violent / excessive talk and nothing is done for that
[17:02] <Sary> bazhanggggggggggg ;) glad to see you
[17:02] <elky> bazhang, there's lots in taht channel that needs to stop which we're actively prevented from stopping. Lets not add /more/ just because we can't make /less/.
[17:02] <bazhang> Sary, try /msg lubotu3 factoid
[17:02]  * IdleOne goes back to whatever. I think my feelings of -ot have been made clear in the past
[17:03] <bazhang> Sary, me too :)  probably best to ask in #ubuntu-irc in future about this though
[17:03] <bazhang> elky, agreed.
[17:03] <Sary> And ikoniaaaaaaaaaa
[17:03] <ikonia> hello
[17:04] <Sary> And elkyyyyyyyy
[17:04] <Sary> I am glad to see Y'All ;)
[17:04] <Sary> Okay , thanks a ton Bazhang
[17:05] <bazhang> :)
[17:05] <Sary> alright , i'll test that bot
[17:05] <Sary> i am out .. peace
[17:05] <bazhang> bye
[17:06] <elky> And you're talking about a person who is in the bantracker for trying ar em ar eff crap in #u which as I recall was the response for not getting what he demanded.
[17:08] <IdleOne> So let's ban him forever and then some because he made a mistake
[17:08] <elky> When was that said?
[17:09] <elky> Actively and knowingly telling people to destroy their data isn't "a mistake" anyway, but I digress.
[17:09] <IdleOne> You know there are people in -ot who should be banned for past behaviors but when they join #u they are very helpful
[17:09] <ikonia> he's made multiple mistakes under multiple nicknames to hide the fact
[17:09] <ikonia> that's where there was confusion
[17:09] <ikonia> so lets be clear about this
[17:10] <elky> IdleOne, this isn't a one-off thing. And he's not actually helpful.
[17:10] <IdleOne> the majority of users are not helpful
[17:10] <IdleOne> they get help and leave
[17:11] <elky> Yes, but you're insinuating we should let him be disruptive because he might help. I'm responding directly to that assumption.
[17:11] <IdleOne> he messed up, several times, does that mean we can't help guide him  a more Ubuntu state
[17:11] <ikonia> look at the conversation in -ot now
[17:11] <IdleOne> to a*
[17:11] <ikonia> he is being helped
[17:11] <ikonia> but just refuses
[17:12] <elky> IdleOne, that's not actually our role. The 46 people here are not here to coach 1500 people in behaving like civil humans.
[17:12] <IdleOne> What is our role?
[17:13] <elky> To administer and manage the channels and prevent the channels from disruption and risks.
[17:13] <gord> he has done nothing in -ot as of now that would warrant him being banned or removed or any thing like that
[17:13] <bazhang> agreed
[17:13] <IdleOne> I did not sign up to police #u
[17:13] <elky> IdleOne, if you want to be a behavioural coach for 1500 people, then fine. It's not a role for the team.
[17:14] <bazhang> if using facts were a requirement in -ot, then..
[17:15] <elky> There's using facts, and then there's asking stuff you know the answer to in the hope the answer will magically change.
[17:15] <bazhang> heh true
[17:15] <elky> And he's doing the second. Which is baiting.
[17:15] <IdleOne> We are supposed to be catalysts, part of that is explaining what the Ubuntu philosophy is and helping the user to follow that philosophy
[17:16] <elky> IdleOne, water. horse. drink.
[17:16] <elky> If you honestly expect us to fall over ourselves to force the horse to drink, you're sadly mistaken.
[17:17] <IdleOne> the horse will drink when it is thirsty
[17:17] <elky> If that's what you want to do, do it. Just don't demand it be part of this job description for the rest of us.
[17:17] <IdleOne> our job is to make sure the water is there
[17:17] <gord> this analogy has become a leaky screwdriver
[17:17] <elky> IdleOne, it /is/ there.
[17:17] <bazhang> hehe
[17:17] <IdleOne> elky: I am not demanding you do anything.
[17:18] <elky> IdleOne, then why are we having this discussion?
[17:18] <IdleOne> I am asking you not to be so harsh in your interpretation of our role
[17:18] <elky> I'm asking you to not be so liberal in it.
[17:18] <IdleOne> I am not a Cop I don't want to be a Cop
[17:20] <elky> We can't be effective channel managers if we're trying to do too much. If we get tied down with time sinks, we're effectively offline for the duration of that engagement.
[19:16] <ikonia> @mark jungli #ubuntu-offtopic again after multiple kicks and warnings doing the random hilighting
[21:38] <AlphaWaves> hello
[21:38] <AlphaWaves> im banned from #ubuntu-fr*
[21:38] <AlphaWaves> they say that my quit message is spam
[21:38] <AlphaWaves> its like to say that one's nick is spam
[21:39] <AlphaWaves> 22:39 quit_message = http://www.christcenteredlessons.com/uploads/9/3/0/9/930995/gods_love_v3.pps
[21:39] <AlphaWaves> not so agressive
[21:44] <AlphaWaves> what do you think?
[21:50] <popey> AlphaWaves: this isnt the channel for those kinds of issues, #ubuntu-irc is
[21:51] <popey> and for the record _I_ consider that spam and offensive.
[22:26] <R3cur51v3> Does anyone remember why I was banned in #ubuntu?
[22:26] <R3cur51v3> I don't even recall it happening
[22:27] <R3cur51v3> I'd like to argue for my readmittance, but as it stands I don't even know the crime of which I was accused.
[22:28] <R3cur51v3> Actually, I think the IP from which I'm using Freenode is banned.
[22:29] <AlphaWaves> popey: well its not offensive
[22:29] <AlphaWaves> popey: its a powerpoint document nothing offensive
[22:30] <knome> AlphaWaves, i don't completely agree with popey, but i personally think it's the wrong place for it.
[22:32] <AlphaWaves> ok
[22:33] <popey> AlphaWaves: I'd rather you didn't tell me what I'm allowed to find offensive
[22:39] <jpds> I'm with popey.
[22:52] <AlphaWaves> imnot
[22:53] <ikonia> #ubuntu-irc is the correct place, take it up with the #ubuntu-fr ops