[00:05] <jdong> superm1: do you have a mighty mouse too?
[00:05] <jdong> superm1: the invert_hwheel quirk for the MM actually makes my wheel inverted.
[00:05] <jdong> I'm sure that's not what it's supposed to do
[04:20] <superm1> jdong, yeah i have a mighty mouse
[04:20] <superm1> which way is inverted?
[04:20] <superm1> i've never known anything but what it is setup
[04:20]  * nixternal leaves the jokes alone
[04:20] <superm1> jdong, up scrolls up and down scrolls down
[04:20] <jdong> superm1: horizontal scrolling, left is right and right is left
[04:20] <jdong> superm1: unless I set the vendor ID to 0000
[04:21] <nixternal> no, up is left, and right is down
[04:21] <superm1> oh i've never horizontal scrolled
[04:21] <jdong> superm1: yeah the inverted scroll quirk is wrong IMO
[04:22] <superm1> jdong, my scroll left and right dont work
[04:22] <superm1> but i'm on hardy here...
[04:22] <jdong> hmm work fine for me in Intrepid
[04:23] <jdong> just with correct vendor ID the direction is inverted
[04:23] <jdong> because... there's a quirk that inverts it
[05:31] <superm1> jdong, that quirk sounds ridiculous
[05:31] <superm1> jdong, WHY would anyone ever want such a thing?
[05:32] <jdong> superm1: I believe the committer thought the scrollwheel was inverted in hardware
[05:32] <jdong> superm1: but on my MM with the same vendor/product ID that is clearly not the case
[05:33] <jdong> and I find it hard to believe that it would be the case
[05:33] <superm1> jdong, yeah mine neither
[05:33] <jdong> the commit message seems to state that it was word-of-mouth
[05:34] <superm1> well i dont know if i want to upgrade to intrepid on this laptop even
[05:34] <superm1> so i might never find out
[05:35] <jdong> gonna file a bug.
[05:35] <superm1> well you might as well write the patch and submit it too
[05:36] <superm1> obscure hardware bugs dont get touched often...
[05:36] <superm1> case in point; intrepid would have released with the fn key completely non functional for BT keyboards if i didn't poke it two weeks before
[05:37] <superm1> (apple bt keyboards that is)
[05:53]  * wgrant wonders why on earth one would buy an Apple laptop just to run Ubuntu on it.
[05:55] <ajmitch> for the shiny logo
[06:04] <wgrant> ajmitch: Ah, good point.
[06:07] <Burgundavia> wgrant: becausethey are very pretty laptops
[06:10] <wgrant> Burgundavia: I guess prettiness wins over utility...
[06:16] <Burgundavia> wgrant: apples entire existence is down to people willing to buy pretty over utility
[06:17] <wgrant> How depressing.
[06:18] <StevenK> I don't think they're pretty
[06:18] <wgrant> StevenK: But but but... they have an Apple on them!
[06:19] <StevenK> And?
[06:19] <wgrant> I don't know. That's all I can think of.
[06:20] <StevenK> The brushed aluminum look doesn't do it for me at all
[06:20] <StevenK> And the iBooks looked like toilet seat covers
[06:20] <wgrant> Haha.
[06:45] <dholbach> good morning
[06:45] <wgrant> Evening dholbach.
[06:45] <dholbach> hi wgrant
[06:46] <didrocks> morning :)
[06:46] <dholbach> hi didrocks
[06:46] <didrocks> Hi dholbach !
[06:49] <woody86> would there be any difference in my mentorship if I use Gnome or KDE?
[07:16] <iulian> woody86: I don't think it would.
[07:19] <woody86> iulian -  I was chatting with my mentor while I was test-installing Kubuntu on my desktop, and he said "wait! you're a KDE guy? Not a Gnome guy??"
[07:20] <woody86> and I didn't know if what I'd be learning in my mentorship would matter based on what DE I use, or if he was just giving me a little guff since he's a Gnome guy?
[07:22] <iulian> woody86: Well, I'm not sure, in the end we all use the same tools.
[07:22] <woody86> iulian- ok, thanks :) I'll double-check with him, but I figured I'd ask here first since he's not online right now
[07:23] <iulian> Ah
[09:16] <huats> morning !
[10:13] <sistpoty|work> hi folks
[10:17] <sebner> sistpoty|work: ahoi =)
[10:17] <sistpoty|work> hi sebner
[11:19] <xerxas> Hi all
[11:19] <xerxas> is there an easy way of doing a .deb from a python egg ?
[11:21] <POX> no, but there's an easy way to create a .deb from .tar - http://stdeb.python-hosting.com/
[11:22] <xerxas> ok , thx !
[12:32] <bddebian> Heya gang
[12:33] <sistpoty|work> hi bddebian
[12:33] <bddebian> Hi sistpoty|work
[13:40] <ScottK> I'd appreciate it if someone with Gnome would try to replicate Bug 291476
[13:40] <ScottK> I don't think it's a clamtk bug in any case.
[13:43] <DktrKranz> ScottK: could you please subscribe me to it? I will try to test it when I come back home.
[13:43] <ScottK> DktrKranz: Sure.  What's your LP ID?
[13:43] <DktrKranz> dktrkranz
[13:44] <ScottK> Thanks
[13:45] <DktrKranz> oh... jaunty's first package! \o/
[13:45] <laga> are the archives open already?
[13:46] <DktrKranz> not yet for normal uploading
[13:47] <DktrKranz> toolchain time now
[13:47] <laga> yay
[13:47] <pochu> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/jaunty-changes/2008-October/000000.html
[13:47]  * pochu subscribes to the list
[13:48] <DktrKranz> feisty-changes can go now
[13:52]  * ScottK had the next to last security upload for Feisty.
[14:02] <luckyone> hello motu
[14:03] <luckyone> I am reading the "Will Canonical's Servers stay alive the 30th of October" thread because I searched for 'apt-torrent'
[14:04] <luckyone> what is the reason we don't use apt-torrent for package distribution? On release day bandwidth would be *much* less a problem I would think
[14:05] <luckyone> especially if the frontend for it helped people see how much ubuntu they had help spread!
[14:05] <luckyone> I would seed the crap out of it
[14:06] <slytherin> Koon: ping
[14:07] <Koon> slytherin: pong
[14:08] <slytherin> Koon: persia asked me to talk with you about openweek. Are you planning any session?
[14:10] <Koon> slytherin: I'll be away next week with lots of uncertainties so I preferred not committing on running a session
[14:12] <Koon> (or is it "committing to"...)
[14:25] <Koon> slytherin: did you receive my answer ?
[14:25] <slytherin> Koon: No. My laptop froze. I am still trying to find root cause of the problem. :-(
[14:25] <Koon> slytherin: I'll be away next week with lots of uncertainties so I preferred not committing on running a session
[14:26] <slytherin> ok
[15:25] <amikrop_> Hello. Audacious 1.5.1 has a very serious bug, not playing the music file the user double clicked on, but playing an old playlist. This bug has been fixed in next versions of Audacious, so I really believe, you should package an update after 1.5.1, as soon as possible.
[15:26] <laga> amikrop_: please file  a bug report
[15:26] <james_w> hi amikrop_, is there a bug in launchpad on this?
[15:30] <marcin_ant> hi all
[15:32] <marcin_ant> I would like to ask if is there any kind of software that can generate debian packages automatically from set of upstream tarballs? (something like dh_make but with gui etc.)
[15:32] <amikrop_> james_w: I don't think so.
[15:33] <amikrop_> laga: I will.
[15:35] <jdong> marcin_ant: there is not
[15:35] <jdong> marcin_ant: a few developers I recall at one point were working on a project that would do something similar to that
[15:36] <jdong> marcin_ant: personally I feel that the level of work and forethought that is required in packaging something well is probably beyond the abilities of automated heuristics
[15:36] <jdong> or at least moderately challenging to implement
[15:37] <marcin_ant> jdong: sure if you think about 'rules' it's pretty hard to automate this
[15:39] <joaopinto> marcin_ant, there is, debcreator, and another one which i don't remember the name
[15:39] <joaopinto> marcin_ant, debian package maker
[15:40] <dx9s_work> How do I figure out the maintainer(s) for mtp-tools,  ' https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+package/mtp-tools ' does tell much -- and would like to forward some information from Tim Norman (Pocket Tunes founder/developer) on a change to the included libmtp.rules for udev
[15:40] <jdong> dx9s_work: Ubuntu doesn't have "maintainers" in the Debian sense
[15:41] <jdong> dx9s_work: usually, either try contacting the last few people mentioned in the changelog, the ubuntu-motu list, or file a launchpad bug
[15:42] <dx9s_work> jdong, I'll try but I don't promise anything / also need to see if Intrepid (have machine at home) possibly already has some changes.
[15:43] <jdong> dx9s_work: alright, cool. thanks.
[17:39] <gouki> How does one know which section a package belongs to? Also, are there any guidelines for the priority field?
[17:48]  * sistpoty|work heads home... cya
[18:05] <amikrop> Hello. After upgrade to Intrepid, I don't have sound for Youtube videos.
[18:05] <amikrop> Maybe it is an issue with the flash.
[18:05] <amikrop> Actually, I can remember I disconnected from the Internet after the downloads of the new packages for the upgrade, were finished.
[18:06] <amikrop> And when it started installing these packages, the flash plugin needed an Internet connection, which it didn't have.
[18:06] <amikrop> And it said it failed to install.
[18:32] <amikrop> There is a very serious bug in 8.10: I don't have sound in Flash videos, and Skype cannot produce sounds, I cannot call, and it says audio playback problem.
[18:33] <amikrop> I don't know, is it about pulseaudio or something?
[18:33] <amikrop> It is very very irritating, I can say.
[18:34] <amikrop> Unacceptable :S
[18:35] <amikrop> No OS can be called serious, if it has such major bugs :(
[18:42] <directhex> amikrop, this isn't a support channel, it's a developer channel
[18:42] <amikrop> directhex: Excuse me?
[18:43] <amikrop> directhex: I am talking you about something extraordinarily bad, and your only answer is "this is not the right place"?
[18:43] <amikrop> I was waiting for a more responsible answer, sir.
[18:44] <directhex> amikrop, it works for other people. you make it sound like the norm, rather than an exception
[18:44] <amikrop> directhex: Well, it does not work for me.
[18:44] <amikrop> Should I be completely upset, or that would make me mean?
[18:45] <superm1> amikrop, this channel is intended for developer discussions of packaging.  finding support for problems, you'll find better luck in #ubuntu or a similar support channel
[18:45] <directhex> you obviously already are. but you're asking for user support with a broken configuration, in (as you say) the wrong place
[18:45] <amikrop> superm1: you can't discuss in #ubuntu there are over 1000 persons there, which makes it impossible to say a thing and someone actually hear you
[18:45] <jdong> going into the wrong channel with the wrong attitude is not going to get you anywhere productive.
[18:46] <jdong> just because another channel is busy doesn't give you the right to interrupt developers in a development-only channel
[18:46] <amikrop> directhex: broken configuration? who broke it?
[18:46] <jdong> (1) tell skype to switch to pulseaudio already
[18:46] <amikrop> I just upgraded, and things stopped working
[18:46] <jdong> (2) tell Adobe the same.
[18:47] <amikrop> jdong: well, how about telling Ubuntu *not* to use pulseaudio, until big vendors like Adobe and Skype actually support it?
[18:47] <jdong> amikrop: then go tell Fedora, RedHat, OpenSuse, and others the same.
[18:47] <jdong> let's all wait until the industry's slowest proprietary vendors catch up!
[18:48] <directhex> there's no 64 bit flash, ban 64-bit distros!
[18:48] <directhex> (there's a 64-bit moonlight available if you like though ;))
[18:48] <amikrop> Well, if yoy don't, users get screwed up.
[18:48] <jdong> flash works here.
[18:48] <jdong> how did you install it?
[18:48] <directhex> and here. and at work on 3 machines
[18:48] <amikrop> jdong: ubuntu-restricted-extras
[18:49] <jdong> any unusual changes to your sound setup?
[18:49] <amikrop> no
[18:50] <amikrop> So? What's wrong?
[18:51] <jdong> no idea
[18:51] <directhex> good question. would require lots of diagnostics, which after the day i've had, i'm less than 0% inclined to do
[18:52] <jdong> and I wish I knew what I was talking about when it came to the Linux sound architecture
[18:52] <directhex> development i could stomach this evening. user support, no. if only there was a development channel i could join
[18:52] <amikrop> Well, I keep telling friends, all the time, how good is Ubuntu, and use it, and help them with installations. And I do this because I like Ubuntu myself, and really feel like doing so. But such situations not only disappoint me, but expose me to my friemds, who are (practically) complaining to me, who proposed them the OS they use now. :-(
[18:53] <jdong> sorry to hear that but that's no excuse to disrupt a development channel
[18:53] <jdong> there are plenty of support options for resolving this -- forums, launchpad answers, mailing lists, IRC
[18:53] <jdong> please do it in an appropriate medium so developers can continue to do their jobs
[18:54] <amikrop> whatever :(
[18:54] <amikrop> I just think developers should fix bugs like this.
[18:54] <directhex> and won't help. because you haven't provided anything of worth to a developer, such as diagnostic output
[18:54] <amikrop> Anyway, thank you, and have a nice day.
[18:54] <csilk> facepalm, some guy made a package for an app I'm in the process of packaging claiming that I am to slow, upon looking at the package it has no dependencies listed in the control file, no copyright information, blank changelog and his package contains a shelll script he wront to make compilation easier?
[18:54] <csilk> *wrote
[18:54] <directhex> csilk, sounds normal to me
[18:55] <csilk> Possibly the worst attempt ever at hi-jacking  a package
[18:55] <jdong> csilk: at least he hasn't uploaded it to a repository yet and told everyone to install it
[18:55] <directhex> csilk, don't look at the mono 2.0 package on someone's ppa
[18:55] <csilk> haha
[18:55] <directhex> jdong, ding!
[18:55] <jdong> and ignore official packages because they interfere with them.
[18:55] <directhex> jono, package version "2.0"
[18:55] <directhex> :)
[18:55] <jdong> directhex: I feel your pain :)
[18:56] <csilk> I guess I'll just /ignore this guys pm's and let him upload it to revu as he plans
[18:56] <jdong> directhex: I was told I "royally screwed up" a Firefox package and the proposed fixed version was a deb postint wrapped arch build script.
[18:56] <csilk> apparently my critque is based on jelousy that he finished the package first.........
[18:56] <directhex> also, am i the only one who gets pissed at divas with an entitlement complex?
[18:56] <jdong> csilk: lol, please let him just upload to revu :)
[18:57] <csilk> sure thing
[18:57] <csilk> he thinks because it works on his system it will work "on everyones"
[18:57] <jdong> "working" is such a low standard to set :)
[18:57]  * jdong resists observation about US workforce
[18:58] <csilk> lol
[18:58] <directhex> really, that amikrop guy needs to get with the bloody program. if it doesn't work, don't invade a dev channel and act like a prissy customer who's been wronged
[18:58] <directhex> when he's paying me consultancy, he gets grace & fast action
[18:58] <jdong> agreed. getting cranky in the wrong place is not going to get anything resolved.
[18:58] <jdong> and apparently we're just sitting around with a fix command refusing to run it on flash and skype.
[18:59] <csilk> oh dear, that jdong is so lazy, why won't he just rin the fix command damn it
[18:59] <csilk> *run
[19:00] <directhex> pdoesn't flash use pulse now? what was that "no more flashsupport" stuff?
[19:30] <csilk> anybody got an opinion on using "checkinstall" for making packages?
[19:30] <csilk> note: I don't use it myself
[19:31] <NCommander> ScottK, you live?
[19:31] <csilk> NCommander, any opinion on my above comment?
[19:32] <NCommander> csilk, its a horrible horrible horrible hack, and whoever is using it to make packages should be smacked and then shown the packaging manual
[19:35] <NCommander> I need someone running Hardy, and has backports enabled
[19:35] <NCommander> any takers?
[19:35] <laga> let me look
[19:36] <NCommander> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hardy-backports/+bug/282361 - laga can you see if transmission-gtk is installable if you have hardy-backports enabled?
[19:36] <csilk> NCommander, that was very similar to what I said, I was looking for confirmation from someone more experienced than myself, thank you
[19:36] <laga> no, backports is disabled
[19:36] <NCommander> bah
[19:36]  * NCommander needs someone w/ backports enabled
[19:36] <laga> :(
[19:38] <directhex> hold on
[19:40] <directhex> NCommander, it's installed already. want me to purge & reinstall?
[19:40] <NCommander> directhex, transmisison-gtk?
[19:40] <NCommander> (from backports?)
[19:40] <directhex>  *** 1.22-1ubuntu1~hardy1 0
[19:40] <directhex>         500 http://mirror.ox.ac.uk hardy-backports/main Packages
[19:40] <directhex>         100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
[19:40] <NCommander> Yeah, try purging and reinstalling
[19:41] <NCommander> We don't have a backport of libpango, so I'm not understanding how this is going boom
[19:42] <directhex> Setting up transmission-gtk (1.22-1ubuntu1~hardy1) ...
[19:43] <directhex> it libpango1.0-0 (>= 1.20.0)
[19:43] <directhex> whereas hardy has 1.20.1 and hardu-updates has 1.20.5
[19:44] <NCommander> d'oh
[19:44] <NCommander> Ok
[19:44] <NCommander> SO thats a failure on my part
[19:44] <directhex> i.e. no problem
[19:45] <NCommander> directhex, mind marking that on that bug for me?
[19:45] <NCommander> actually
[19:45] <NCommander> I'll do it
[19:45] <directhex> busy watching zombies eat the big brother house
[19:45] <NCommander> lol
[19:46] <directhex> and now i'm done
[19:47]  * NCommander provides a transmission backport
[19:50] <directhex> NCommander, how about mono? it doesn't break anything that i've noticed :) :p
[20:10] <nixternal> where are my regex and bash junkies? this is killing me
[20:10] <nixternal> TYPE='ss1k'
[20:11] <nixternal> if [[ $TYPE =~ ^ss[0-9]k ]]
[20:11] <nixternal> this does not work no matter how I try it
[20:11] <ScottK> NCommander: I do (AFAIK)
[20:12] <nixternal> foo.sh: 8: [[: not found
[20:12]  * nixternal jumps out the window
[20:12] <NCommander> ScottK, well, living is an all important thing :-)
[20:12]  * NCommander watches nixternal go splat on the pavement
[20:13] <ScottK> Some days it's over-rated.
[20:13]  * ScottK is glad he doesn't have the job of cleaning that up.
[20:13] <NCommander> ScottK, I have a backport that Needs Upload
[20:14] <ScottK> Bug?
[20:14] <ScottK> It better not be another Transmission backport because that one was a PITA.
[20:15] <NCommander> ScottK, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hardy-backports/+bug/282361
[20:15] <NCommander> ScottK, err
[20:15] <NCommander> too late
[20:15] <ScottK> OK.
[20:15] <ScottK> At least you did it this time.
[20:15]  * NCommander already did the backport and the testing ;-)
[20:16] <ScottK> NCommander: Please mark in the bug about how wonderfully you've tested this.
[20:17]  * NCommander downloads a torrent just to make sure nothing is actually broken
[20:17] <ScottK> NCommander: Also I need a better rationale than 'fixes bugs'.  If it just fixes bugs it ought to be cherry picked for SRU.
[20:17] <NCommander> ScottK, hold on
[20:18] <ScottK> NCommander: Were you aware there's a pending SRU for that version?
[20:19] <NCommander> ScottK, no, but the version in Hardy is very old, there are feature changes
[20:19] <ScottK> NCommander: Sure.  Document those in the bug (edit it), but I want to wait until the SRU is in -updates and backport that.
[20:21] <NCommander> ScottK, ok, well, the debdiff shoud apply cleanly from the -updates version except for the changelog info
[20:21] <NCommander> and ...
[20:21] <NCommander> *deletes and recreates the debdiff*
[20:21] <NCommander> Its been too long since I touched backports; I forgot the freaking bug number
[20:24] <NCommander> ScottK, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hardy-backports/+bug/275573 - DOH!
[20:25] <ScottK> NCommander: For 275573, how about you just test bzr from Intrepid and we backport that?
[20:26]  * NCommander looks at Bazaar's rdepends
[20:27] <NCommander> ScottK, there are enough bazaar rdepends that I would be a little nervous about doing the backport without a hell of a lot of regression testing
[20:27] <NCommander> We're still recovering from the last SCM backport we attempted
[20:34] <ScottK> NCommander: Fair enough.
[20:34]  * ScottK will deal with it then.
[20:34] <NCommander> I think if we broke both Bazaar and SVN within the timespan of a month, people will riot :-)
[20:35] <ScottK> NCommander: It's backports.  It's known crack.  People who expect it to actually work consistently should be educated otherwise.
[20:35] <NCommander> The problem with users is you can't uninstall stupid.
[20:35]  * NCommander notes we should probably have some sorta big warning box when you try and enable the backports repo on Hardy.
[20:36] <ScottK> NCommander: Did you read the warning in sources.list that's already there?
[20:37] <NCommander> Its not displayed if you enable it via software sources
[20:39] <james_w> I was going to request a backport of bzr at some point, but I'll do that once I've picked the version and looked at how much needs to be included, and done some testing
[20:40] <cody-somerville> I think we should remove it from software sources if it is that much of a problem
[20:40] <cody-somerville> I mean, the backporters actively ignore people who say "hey, this is breaking my system" and upload proposed backports anyhow
[20:41] <cody-somerville> Maybe we need to reconsider the "official" part of the ubuntu backports.
[20:43]  * NCommander always thought Backports were unoffical and unsupported
[20:43] <NCommander> Did I miss a memo to the contrary?
[20:43] <NCommander> ^- cody-somerville
[20:43] <NCommander> or ScottK actually
[20:43] <cody-somerville> The wiki page says "The chances for regression is very low" blah blah blah
[20:43] <cody-somerville> Obviously there is a disconnect somewhere.
[20:43] <NCommander> Thats the theory
[20:43] <ScottK> cody-somerville: We actually have very few regressions.
[20:43] <ScottK> And we fix them when we do.
[20:43] <NCommander> Considering the number of backports we do
[20:44] <NCommander> The problem is every once in awhile, we backport something and it breaks in unexpected way (SVN being the problem this case around)
[20:44] <ScottK> cody-somerville: Backports is blessed by the tech board.  If  you think they should be stopped, take it up with them.
[20:44] <cody-somerville> I would if I cared enough.
[21:14] <ScottK> Dad to 5 year old: "We have to restart the computer."
[21:14] <ScottK> 5 year old: "Why?"
[21:15] <ScottK> Dad to 5 year old: "Because I just updated the kernel and each time you update the kernel, the computer has to be restarted to use the new kernel."
[21:15] <ScottK> 5 year old: "Oh."
[21:15] <joaopinto> found a crashing bug with webkit :\
[21:21] <ScottK> NCommander: Since bzr-svn doesn't actually depend on svn and isn't built against it, how does rebuilding help?
[22:08] <compengi> why does debian and ubuntu change the default package configure
[22:08] <compengi> files and folders
[22:10] <compengi> isn't better to get used to universal package defaults?
[22:11] <sebner> compengi: can you be more specific?
[22:12] <compengi> for example 1 of the packages that is completely different and changed is apache2
[22:12] <compengi> the default configuration files and directories aren't the same as in the source package
[22:14] <compengi> the default package files in source package is in /etc/httpd/httpd.conf and the root directory is in /srv/http/
[22:15] <sebner> compengi: I suppose /srv was changed to /var?
[22:15] <sebner> compengi: ubuntu doesn't have a /srv (like suse). webservices run here in /var
[22:15] <compengi> true, that's the first difference and configuration files?
[22:18] <compengi> i'm not asking about a specific package, it's interesting to know why some packages' directories are changed (configuration one's at least)
[22:21] <compengi> and it also sometimes happens that in those package support channels you will be asked to refer in your distro's support channel (ubuntu in this chase) when you use the default, you can ask any question there
[22:21] <sebner> compengi: well, true but in the apache case. ubuntu doesn't have /srv ...
[22:22] <compengi> sebner, apache was only an example as you've asked to be more specific :)
[22:22] <sebner> compengi: be sure that the changes aren't made just for fun (most times) ^^
[22:24] <compengi> sebner, ermm.. i don't have any problem with reading and using any distor's defaults. i'm totally okay with it. i don't have either a question regarding any package setup. but it's an interesting cause to know why it's like this
[22:29] <compengi> i idle in ubuntu support channel and sometimes a user asks some specific advanced package setup questions, when you'd ask him to refer to there support channel, he'd sometimes reply, they had just refered me to here
[22:30] <slangasek> -
[22:41] <ScottK> compengi: Generally these differences are because we try to follow FHS: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filesystem_Hierarchy_Standard
[22:53] <compengi> ScottK, although accourding to FHS /var/ Variable files, such as logs, spool files, and temporary e-mail files. and /srv/ Site-specific data which is served by the system.
[22:54] <compengi> which doesn't mean you are following FHS
[23:01] <compengi> ScottK, http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#SRVDATAFORSERVICESPROVIDEDBYSYSTEM
[23:02] <compengi> Therefore, no program should rely on a specific subdirectory structure of /srv existing or data necessarily being stored in /srv. However /srv should always exist on FHS compliant systems and should be used as the default location for such data.
[23:48]  * sistpoty considers pointing MOTUs to SRUs while jaunty is still frozen: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/65442/
[23:48] <sistpoty> any comments?
[23:51]  * jdong agrees with the motion
[23:51] <sistpoty> refined at http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/65443/, to also point to REVU
[23:52] <sistpoty> though I'm not 100% sure what should be the top thing to work on right now
[23:54] <sistpoty> refined again: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/65447/


[18:20] <atomx> hi
[18:21] <atomx> Now I noticed that Ubuntu does not use INIT, but upstart
[18:21] <atomx> ... even if I've been using it for 7 years
[18:21] <atomx> (at least 7(
[18:21] <ion> What’s INIT?
[18:21] <atomx> )
[18:23] <ogra_> ion, a very loud pid 0
[18:23] <atomx> the standard process called by the kernel as the last step of tyhe boot
[18:23] <ogra_> err
[18:23] <ogra_> pid 1
[18:23] <ogra_> :)
[18:24] <ion> atomx: Upstart comes /sbin/init.
[18:24] <ion> with
[18:25] <atomx> I tried a few times to read the init scripts, and saw that inittab misses, and I noticed that something unusual is there
[18:25] <atomx> In fact, upstart represents the new init scripts of init ? Is there some change in executable init ?
[18:26]  * ogra_ points to http://upstart.ubuntu.com/
[18:29] <atomx> I saw on that huge page the link to this channel, this is why I am here, probably somebody here can explain me in 2 minutes how 1. to write a new script 2. what are the changes from the classic System V scripts 3. if I can study the new system in less than 1 hour, and completely understand it.
[18:30] <ogra_> see the cookbook link at the top of the page
[18:30] <ogra_> and no, 1h is likely not enough
[18:31] <atomx> hmmmm
[18:33] <atomx> thanks
[18:34] <atomx> but if your system explodes in a ball of fire or becomes unusable as a result of a suggestion from this document, you alone have the intellectual pleasure of fixing your systems
[18:34] <atomx> (quote)
[18:41] <atomx> I started to read the introduction, and upstart seems great
[19:04] <jodh> atomx: the best place to start is the Upstart Cookbook: http://upstart.ubuntu.com/cookbook/. The first few pages should explain what you need - you don't need to read it all to start with :)


[00:00] <snap-l> Well, both walking, and trying to get the muscles to not clench in his back
[00:00] <rick_h_> cool, glad to hear there's signs of improvement
[00:00] <snap-l> Yeah, thank you.
[00:49] <snap-l> Well, the cat (Pixel) is in the kitchen, getting acclimated to the rest of teh house.
[01:01] <snap-l> OK, going to call this meeting to order
[01:01] <snap-l> Welcome everyone to the September 2012 meeting of the Ubuntu Michigan Loco
[01:01] <snap-l> Can I get a quick show of hands who is here?
[01:02] <snap-l> don't be shy
[01:02] <rick_h_> guess so
[01:04] <snap-l> OK, well, as you all come alive, feel free to say you're here
[01:04] <snap-l> WE have some things to cover
[01:04] <snap-l> http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/ubuntu-michigan/367/detail/
[01:04] <snap-l> ^^ Agenda
[01:04] <rick_h_> ccccccbgjgvckdftufjkngjvhjdhvtcujgflehlrvbuh
[01:04] <snap-l> craig@lister:~$ pwgen 26 1
[01:04] <snap-l> dieheep3Agoh2Quuaz2aeDaich
[01:04] <snap-l> ;)
[01:09] <rick_h_> oops
[01:12] <snap-l> Anywho, let's start with the first item: Global Jam
[01:12] <snap-l> Unless someone hwas a better idea of where we can have it, we have the Caribou in Royal Oak (where Coffee House Coders is held) reserved on Sunday from 6 until close
[01:12] <snap-l> I know that's not ideal, but unfortunately it's the best we can do
[01:13] <snap-l> So that would be on September 9th from 6pm - close
[01:14] <snap-l> I'm not sure when they close on Sunday.
[01:15] <snap-l> Of course we'll try to be online as well, so if someone can't make it, we'll be on channel as well.
[01:15] <snap-l> Any questions?
[01:17] <snap-l> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/venues/United_States/537/detail/ <- I added this
[01:18] <snap-l> brousch: I'm pretty sure you're not going to want to make the trek over to this side, so you may want to do an event on the west side.
[01:25] <snap-l> Anything else on the Global Jam?
[01:25] <rick_h_> nothing here
[01:25] <snap-l> Anyone planning on coming out?
[01:28] <rick_h_> maybe
[01:29] <snap-l> WEll, maybe it'll be just another CHC on Sunday. :)
[01:30] <snap-l> OK, moving on
[01:30] <snap-l> Next up: Ohio Linuxfest
[01:30] <snap-l> Talked with the Ohio folks, and they aren't planning anything booth-wise
[01:31] <rick_h_> k
[01:32] <snap-l> And I'd rather not have one if it means I'm going to be the only person behind it. :)
[01:32] <snap-l> So, if there's somemone else who might be interested in manning  abooth, we'll see what we can do about getting one
[01:36] <snap-l> but at this point, there doesn't seem to be much interest
[01:36] <snap-l> So, any questions?
[01:37] <rick_h_> nope
[01:38] <snap-l> OK, last up on the agenda: 12.10 release party
[01:39] <snap-l> It's coming
[01:39] <snap-l> Going to ask the list for potential locations
[01:40] <snap-l> Wondering if we could have it at Liberty Street Brewing again
[01:46] <snap-l> Anywho, apparently this first Sunday of the month isn't working out. Seems like few folks are attending
[01:47] <jjesse> i keep forgeting
[01:47] <snap-l> Think we either need to move it to another time
[01:47] <jjesse> forgot to add this to my google calendar sorry
[01:47] <snap-l> or just poo-poo it altogether.
[01:47] <jjesse> 9pm?
[01:47] <snap-l> YYeha, 9pm
[01:48] <snap-l> http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-michigan/ical
[01:48] <jjesse> cool thanks
[01:48] <snap-l> np
[01:49] <wolfger> hey, look... a meeting!
[01:49] <snap-l> You chuckleheads. :)
[01:50] <jjesse> usually
[01:50] <wolfger> sorry. Was out in the yard with a fire, no idea what time it was
[01:50] <snap-l> Fire is probably more important. :)
[01:51] <wolfger> as (one of) the people who suggested 9PM Sunday, let me say this time sucks :-)
[01:52] <snap-l> Yeah, I'm not sure when we could have it instead
[01:52] <snap-l> since during the day is when we're here more
[01:54] <snap-l> but Anywho, that's something to discuss on the mailing list
[01:56] <brousch> I'm here!
[01:56] <snap-l> Thank God I didn't offer videos of self-immolation
[01:57] <wolfger> aww... you don't have to self-immolate. We'll be happy to do it to you for you.
[01:57] <wolfger> I still have a good bed of coals out in the fire pit
[01:58] <wolfger> crowd-source-immolation ;-)
[01:58] <snap-l> har har
[01:58] <snap-l> wolfger: Shit, we've missed you
[01:58] <wolfger> LOL
[01:59] <wolfger> I've missed you guys. Sucks royally I have no means of getting to IRC from work anymore
[01:59] <snap-l> Not even via phone?
[01:59] <wolfger> In my current location, I have no cell signal
[02:00] <wolfger> current work location, that is, but you bright people prolly figured out what i meant
[02:00] <snap-l> Yeah, that was one of the fun parts of working at Chrysler
[02:00] <wolfger> Hopefully that ends in a couple months or so
[02:00] <snap-l> ?
[02:01] <wolfger> My next location should be cell-friendly
[02:01] <wolfger> as I finish up the current project
[02:01] <snap-l> Ah, cool
[02:01] <wolfger> I might have to boot into Ubuntu again someday just so I feel like I belong here :-p
[02:02] <snap-l> heh
[02:02] <snap-l> OK, anything else with the meeting? If not, meeting adjourned.
[02:05] <brousch> I don't know if I'll have a bug jam event. I'll look at the calendar and see if anyone's interested
[02:06] <brousch> 17 August is going to be very difficult. I don't have a Tardis
[02:06] <wolfger> Delorean?
[02:06] <brousch> or is that when it was added to the agenda?
[02:06] <snap-l> That's when it was added
[02:07] <brousch> Do people really care about when an item was added? Seems like a silly thing to have on the agenda
[02:08] <brousch> Ah, next weekend
[02:16] <brousch> Ah geekers. they left in all the mic problems and dead air http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=So2weWysyZc&feature=plcp
[02:16] <snap-l> Are you shitting me?
[02:16] <brousch> At least snap-l is on video now
[02:19] <snap-l> Not really, am I
[02:19] <snap-l> I thought I was off-camera the whole time
[02:19] <brousch> Nope
[02:19] <snap-l> Bah
[02:21]  * snap-l is making a long-song version of Open Metalcast
[02:21] <snap-l> This is a 1:40 episode
[11:58] <rick_h_> whoa of the day http://www.stuckincustoms.com/2011/02/22/hans-zimmer-in-his-studio/
[12:06] <brousch> Upgrading your home office?
[12:57] <rick_h_> heh, I wish
[12:57] <rick_h_> look at all that wood in the place <3
[13:56] <snap-l> morning
[13:56] <snap-l> watching a kitten, who is going to be renamed "ninja" for the way she is attacking us
[13:56] <snap-l> "Hah, you do not suspect the deadly assaults of the kitten. Watch, as I rapell off of your leg to get to the window"
[14:01] <brousch> Any claws in my flesh and it gets punted across the room
[14:01] <snap-l>  Now arch nemesis rainbow mousie is getting destroyed
[14:02] <snap-l> Well, this morning she decided I was a REI climbing wall
[14:02] <snap-l> got about 4 feet up
[14:03] <snap-l> I want that studio
[14:27] <rick_h_> snap-l: ouch, my wife says you should call the kitten snickers
[14:53] <snap-l> I'm thinking assassin
[14:53] <snap-l> But pixel is still pretty apt for her
[14:53] <snap-l> she's lightning quick
[14:59] <rick_h_> I like pixel
[15:08] <jrwren> nullspace: you have a kid, or is that girl on your flickr a niece?
[16:00] <snap-l> http://www.jwz.org/blog/2012/09/everyday-hulk/
[22:10] <Dekkard> meetin tonight?
[22:24] <snap-l> Dekkard: Last night


[00:23] <Gibby> any1 using mdd 0.5.0 on a FE on 10.04 with .24x?
[03:22] <qwebirc16684> Okay - first things first - but thanks in advance... and I have never IRC'd before so... go slow.  But I think I have a simple question I can't seem to find the answer to.  I have installed mythbuntu 11.04.  I was wondering if there is a guest login/pwd for samba so I can stream some recorded video on boxee on my win 7 rig in the family room?
[03:51] <qwebirc16684>
[03:52] <qwebirc16684> \\
[04:28] <bmcgough> !help
[04:28] <Zinn> !help For a  complete list of my knowledge visit: http://www.baablogic.net/Zinn.cgi  Other available commands: !status, !about, !bug [bug_number].
[19:16] <stevieman> is there a Gui network manager in Mythbuntu? I can't seem to find one
[22:12] <bmcgough> I have an image corruption problem on Mythbuntu 11.10 and a WinTV 1250 PCI card (14f1:8852, cx23885 driver). Where should I file a bug? The image corruption is on OTA ATSC HD channels only and is purple vertical lines.
[22:22] <mrand> bmcgough: does that channel work fine outside of MythTV?
[22:22] <bmcgough> Like xawtv? I should try that...
[22:23] <mrand> Or even just cat /dev/video_whatever.  vlc can also open streaming devices like that.
[23:17] <bmcgough> Whoa, vlc is kick-ass! Yes, channels are playing fine in VLC (took me a minute to make a channels file). SD digital (ATSC) channels play OK in mythtv, just HD ones are corrupt in the same way.
[23:17] <Zinn> bmcgough: Please watch your language.


[02:37] <keithzg> Download page seems to be giving a 404 on the website currently?
[09:09] <mparillo> Looks as if somebody is editing the Download page in Word Press.
[09:12] <mparillo> Publishing. Anything is better than nothing.
[09:15] <mparillo> Ugh. It looks as if somebody (or Word Press) created a Download Page - Old and that now loads.
[09:20] <mparillo> And I cannot find the top-level navigation in Word Press.
[13:02] <mparillo> I do not know what happened, but the new downloads page renders now. Sharp eyes welcome there as well as the just-published https://kubuntu.org/news/kubuntu-impish-indri-21-10-beta-released/
[13:02] <mparillo> Next page to fix is alternative downloads
[13:08] <BluesKaj> Hi folks
 Thanks for fixing mparillo.
[13:36] <mparillo> Alternative Downloads edited. It seems to take some time to propagate, but once it does, a review there would be a good thing.
[13:47] <mparillo> Word Press seems to be confusing me. I got back into the editor for Alternative Downloads and I saw the original page, before my 21.10 edits. I would rather wait a bit rather than chance some kind of update collision. I wonder if we could use KDE's gitlab instance to generate pages?
 Attempted to review the alternate downloads page... still no 21.10 downloads yet.
 Also, in case you missed the kubuntu message, the 21.10 announcement still show 21.04: https://kubuntu.org/news/kubuntu-21-04-impish-indri-released/
[15:08] <mparillo> Oh the headline?
[15:11] <mparillo> Fixed the headline, let me see if I can fix the URL as well.
[15:12] <mparillo> Let's see if that propogates.
[15:16] <mparillo> And trying again on the Alternative Downloads.
[16:34] <mparillo> I think Alternative Downloads is also ready for careful review.
[19:20] <valorie> torrents seeding! off for an *in-person* (masked of course) meeting :-)