[02:31] <ahoneybun> mm Jersey Mike's is a chain it seems
[03:29] <ahoneybun> Garheade, ^
[14:00] <Garheade> ahoneybun: I didn't realize that.


[00:14] <genii-around> Hm, "IRCAnswersBot" in #k ... aren't all bots supposed to be vetted?
[00:26] <Pici> thats a vetted bot
[00:28] <Pici> !bots
[00:28] <genii-around> Pici: OK, cool
[00:28] <Pici> genii-around: see the bottom of the page of the last link there
[06:25] <bazhang> random gulzar questions
[06:25] <bazhang> wants to purge all MONO and now has 25MB php file
[06:30] <rww> bazhang: I will hit them with my logical reasoning stick. Undoubtedly this will be effective.
[06:30] <bazhang> heh
[06:30] <bazhang> he was doing something similar the other day
[06:34] <bazhang> he really pushing the limits
[06:34] <bazhang> +'s
[06:46] <bazhang> so now he'll start in #u with the mono again
[13:55] <Pici> !ff5
[13:56] <Tm_T> I'm a bit confused how it is labeled as a security update, is 4-series now unmaintained?
[13:56] <Pici> Maybe I should just change that to 'an automatic' update to lessen the confusion.
[13:57] <Tm_T> that would work
[13:57] <charlie-tca> yeah, firefox no longer issues updates to the series. firefox4 is updated by firefox5, as I understand it now
[13:57] <Pici> !ff5 s/a security/an automatic/
[13:57] <Pici> !ff5 =~ s/a security/an automatic/
[13:58] <Tm_T> charlie-tca: hmmm, is this possibly documented somewhere?
[13:58] <charlie-tca> on mozilla, maybe
[13:58] <charlie-tca> let me try to find it. They no longer issue updates the same way. instead of 4.?? update, it will be 5.
[13:59] <Pici> My windows install of 4 got upgraded to 5 by the internal updater.
[14:00] <Tm_T> yup, I undestand this is happening, but some documentation would be nice. I'm sure there's plenty of users beside me who are also bit buzzled of this
[14:02] <charlie-tca> Tm_T: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2011-April/012541.html
[14:02] <charlie-tca> is the easiest explanation for me
[14:02] <Tm_T> thanks (:
[14:06] <charlie-tca> It still took me this long to figure out what they were really doing :(
[14:09] <Tm_T> I hate trying to search release notes or other useful information from mozilla.com these days
[14:10] <bazhang> alienmindtrick is using the gnome3 ppa
[14:39] <genii-around> Hehe, cheeky ubottu PMs!
[19:06] <charlie-tca> Tm_T: http://news.slashdot.org/story/11/06/22/172229/No-Additional-Firefox-4-Security-Updates
[19:30] <Pici> oCean: ?
[19:31] <oCean> yeah, nvm. Seem to have quite a lag
[19:34] <Pici> That went better than expected with tortib.


[00:00] <rpadovani> ahayzen, so, I take advantage of your kindness: when I have to use a lot of and when I have to use a lots of?
[00:01] <ahayzen> 'a lot of' and 'a lots of' ?
[00:01] <rpadovani> ahayzen, yes, what's the difference?
[00:01] <ahayzen> i usually say... 'a lot of' or 'lots of'
[00:02] <ahayzen> eg 'a lot of something did something' or 'lots of something did something'
[00:02] <ahayzen> i don't think 'a lots of' makes sense
[00:03] <rpadovani> ah, ok, interesting. 'a lot of' and 'lots of' are interchangeable?
[00:04] <ahayzen> basically :)
[00:05] <rpadovani> ok, thanks :-)
[00:05] <rpadovani> Time to sleep, see you soon!
[00:05] <ahayzen> o/ rpadovani have fun :)
[00:26] <ahayzen> balloons, does jenkins use adt? or will it pick up my new depends from the deb control? or will we have to manually add them?
[00:26] <balloons> ahayzen, for now, jenkins uses deb
[00:27] <ahayzen> balloons, ok cool at least it 'should' work then :)
[00:27] <ahayzen> ...once it works locally :P
[00:27] <ahayzen> 'PASS' \o/
[00:28] <ahayzen> balloons, would you put the url-dispatcher calls in a helper? i've just been doing the subprocess.check_call() directly in the test?
[00:29] <ahayzen> balloons, eg this is what one of the tests currently looks like http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/8294829/
[00:29] <balloons> ahayzen, probaly a helper yea
[06:23] <dholbach> good morning
[08:10] <justCarakas> morning all
[08:16] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Wonderful Weirdos Day! :-D
[08:16] <dpm> morning popey, around?
[08:17] <popey> ya
[08:23] <dholbach> dpm, for the app dev training materials - would you suggest I put them under dev.u.c/community/ somewhere?
[08:24] <dpm> dholbach, I'd put them under http://developer.ubuntu.com/resources/ for now
[08:24] <dholbach> dpm, ah yes, good thinking
[08:25] <dpm> popey, could you add the comment with the feedback mardy gave you on https://code.launchpad.net/~dpm/reminders-app/account-click/+merge/230768 ? I'd like this MP to be merged this week
[08:26] <popey> ah yes. sorry I forgot...
[08:26] <popey> will do now
[08:26] <dpm> np, thanks
[08:27] <popey> done
[08:28] <dpm> thanks
[08:50] <nik90_> Good morning :-)
[08:51] <nik90_> zbenjamin: hey, could you quickly review https://code.launchpad.net/~nik90/ubuntu-calendar-app/remove-qmlproject-hacks/+merge/233831
[08:51] <nik90_> zbenjamin: I removed the qmlproject file and the desktop file hack. should take less than 15 secs
[08:51] <nik90_> dpm: hey, could you review https://code.launchpad.net/~nik90/ubuntu-clock-app/make-alarmlabel-translatable/+merge/233828. related to pot file update
[08:52] <nik90_> mihir: ping
[08:54] <zbenjamin> nik90_: https://code.launchpad.net/~zeller-benjamin/ubuntu-calculator-app/sdkcompat/+merge/233693
[08:54] <zbenjamin> nik90_: i can not review Mps for that project
[08:54] <nik90_> zbenjamin: as in you cannot top approve?
[08:55] <popey> i can if zbenjamin says it's okay
[08:55] <popey> well, if nik90_ does ㋛
[08:56] <nik90_> popey: let me test the calculator MP by zbenjamin now
[08:56] <popey> thanks!
[08:57] <zbenjamin> nik90_: popey: the MR from nik90_ looks good
[08:58] <zbenjamin> nik90_: approved
[08:58] <nik90_> zbenjamin: thnx
[08:58] <nik90_> popey: can you top approve https://code.launchpad.net/~nik90/ubuntu-calendar-app/remove-qmlproject-hacks/+merge/233831
[09:01] <popey> done
[09:02] <nik90_> popey: thnx
[09:02] <nik90_> zbenjamin: btw if the name in the manifest is @PROJECT_NAME@, can I append .devel to it before runnning on device or emulator?
[09:02] <zbenjamin> nik90_: yeps
[09:03] <nik90_> zbenjamin: silly me kept removing it and replacing it with com.ubuntu.calculator.devel :P
[09:03] <zbenjamin> nik90_: its just variable substitution
[09:03] <nik90_> true
[09:05] <Akiva-Thinkpad> hey all
[09:07] <nik90_> popey: top approve https://code.launchpad.net/~zeller-benjamin/ubuntu-calculator-app/sdkcompat/+merge/233693 as well pls. I just approved it
[09:07] <nik90_> Akiva-Thinkpad: hey
[09:07] <Akiva-Thinkpad> o/
[09:07] <popey> done
[09:08] <nik90_> popey: btw headsup, we cannot release a new version of clock before the next image promotion since ideally it requires the snooze backend that landed in the indicator-datetime package
[09:09] <popey> nik90_: ok
[09:17] <dholbach> has anyone tried to have the ubuntu emulator running in a virtualbox?
[09:24] <popey> dholbach: i am trying now
[09:24] <popey> assuming this is for that mail thread
[09:24] <dholbach> popey, yes
[09:24] <popey> yeah i said I'd look at it
[09:24] <dholbach> popey, because I tried it on a 14.10 virtualbox and it didn't work - I was just trying to see if anyone else had tried it
[09:25] <popey> i am testing on 14.04
[09:25] <dholbach> thanks
[09:25] <davmor2> nik90_: type in wolverhampton in the clock app but stop at wolver, in other apps on the phone that would show a bunch of suggestions but in clock it say no such place and repeats that until you finish typing in the whole name
[09:26] <brendand> davmor2, the clock app only shows real places
[09:26] <brendand> davmor2, what's the 'wolverhampton' you're inventing now?
[09:26] <popey> davmor2: bug 1366283
[09:27] <nik90_> davmor2: sry but that doesn't qualify for a clock bug ^^
[09:27] <nik90_> :P
[09:27] <davmor2> nik90_: meh I'll just hit it harder :P  I thought I was doing really well finding one that quick
[09:28] <davmor2> popey: ta
[09:28] <nik90_> davmor2: sure ;)
[09:38] <dpm> nik90_, done
[09:38] <nik90_> cool thx
[09:40] <nik90_> dpm: I just read your comment. I was asked to remove the space in "%1 h" since in the UI it should appear as "3h 4m"
[09:41] <dpm> nik90_, by design?
[09:41] <nik90_> dpm: yes
[09:45] <dpm> nik90, in any case, they will need to be fixed so that they work with translations
[09:45] <dpm> nik90, was it giorgio who suggested that?
[09:45] <nik90> dpm: yes
[09:46] <nik90> dpm: he is online atm on irc, we can discuss this
[09:48] <nik90> dpm: btw in catalyn is the time supposed to be shown as h.mm ?
[09:49] <nik90> clock does this but the indicator-datetime doesn't
[09:50] <mihir> nik90: pong
[09:50] <dpm> nik90, yes, it should be .
[09:50] <dpm> the indicator used to use . at some point
[09:50] <dpm> but at some other point it changed
[09:50] <dpm> actually, it should be shown as H.mm
[09:50] <nik90> mihir: hey, zbenjamin made some changes to the calendar cmake files which now lets you run it on your device directly from qtc :D
[09:51] <nik90> mihir: you will have to open the cmakelist.txt file instead of the .qmlproject file from now on
[09:51] <mihir> nik90: yeah I saw that in emails, but didnt get time to try on my machine, will do that tonight :D
[09:51] <mihir> nik90: awesome :D
[09:51] <nik90> mihir: btw what are we waiting on your new-event branch?
[09:52] <nik90> mihir: I want to get started on another big calendar branch, but first need your branch to go in first
[09:52] <mihir> nik90: nothing I am done my side, popey  was suppose to take look
[09:52] <nik90> mihir: oh ok
[09:52] <mihir> nik90: what is that about ?
[09:53] <nik90> mihir: massive reorganization of the files in the source tree. atm all the files  are in the root of your calendar app. I am going to move them into separate folders
[09:53] <nik90> mihir: similar to the clock app structure
[09:53] <mihir> nik90: yeah , i thought of same..
[09:53] <nik90> mihir: I will need your help. So same drill as before
[09:53] <nik90> mihir: although this time no AP changes required
[09:53] <nik90> most likely
[09:54] <mihir> nik90: also, wanted to move some of the functions to saperate files
[09:54] <mihir> nik90: yup it shouldn't required.
[09:54] <mihir> nik90: what i will do , i will try to start strcutre tonight , or tomorrow ,and will push that
[09:54] <nik90> mihir: I am already on it.
[09:55] <nik90> mihir: I will push to a common branch
[09:55] <mihir> nik90: okay then no issues :) just push that we can start together
[10:02] <dholbach> dpm, http://developer.ubuntu.com/resources/app-dev-training/ - good to go? :-)
[10:03] <nik90> ogra_: does one need developer-mode just for adb shell?
[10:03] <ogra_> nik90, yes
[10:03] <nik90> ogra_: will I be able to use phablet-shell withouth developer mode?
[10:05] <mihir> popey: ping
[10:06] <ogra_> nik90, nope, it uses adb
[10:06] <popey> mihir: pong
[10:06] <mihir> popey: if you get some time to review new -event design we can get it merge :)
[10:06] <popey> kk
[10:06] <nik90> mihir: can you quickly do a trunk merge
[10:06] <mihir> nik90: i can't in office right now :|
[10:07] <nik90> mihir: alrite let me do it
[10:08] <dpm> dholbach, looks great, not sure if the picture is going to put people off ;)
[10:08] <dholbach> haha, I don't think so
[10:19] <dpm> popey, dholbach, could one of you follow up with jdstrand on bug 1357211?
[10:20] <dholbach> dpm, sure
[10:21] <dpm> awesome, thanks
[10:21] <vitimiti> Hi
[10:25] <dholbach> dpm, do you think you could upload a click package for the bug you mentioned?
[10:25] <dholbach> dpm, is this generally working or is c-r-t just complaining?
[10:25] <dpm> dholbach, there is one in the merge proposal linked to, but I'll add a direct link
[10:25] <dpm> IIRC it's just the scripts complaining
[10:25] <dholbach> ah ok, no worries
[10:27] <dpm> done
[10:29] <dholbach> thanks
[10:38] <Akiva-Thinkpad> !ping
[10:58] <mihir> nik90: thanks :)
[10:59] <nik90> np
[10:59] <mihir> nik90: if you can have final approve, lets merge that to the trunk :D
[11:02]  * mihir hugs nik90  for helping to revamp new event and merge in trunk :D
[11:03] <nik90> mihir: yw our work is not yet done :D
[11:03] <mihir> nik90: i know :)
[11:23] <nerochiaro> mzanetti: ping
[11:24] <mzanetti> nerochiaro: hi
[11:25] <nerochiaro> mzanetti: is the tagger app a project you manage ?
[11:26] <mzanetti> nerochiaro: yes
[11:26] <nerochiaro> mzanetti: i can't seem to be able to build it in qtcreator. it fails to run qmake
[11:28] <mzanetti> nerochiaro: works fine for me as long as only building for desktop
[11:28] <mzanetti> nerochiaro: our SDK for phone doesn't support qmake
[11:28] <nerochiaro> mzanetti: oh, and i think it's only supporting in-tree builds and qtcreator by default does shadow builds
[11:28] <nerochiaro> mzanetti: so how do i build it for the phone ?
[11:28] <mzanetti> no... definitely supporting shadow builds
[11:28] <mzanetti> nerochiaro: there's a run_on_ubuntu_touch.sh script
[11:29] <popey> zbenjamin: is there a reason installing ubuntu-sdk doesn't pull in ubuntu-emulator on 14.04? (this means the wizard doesn't work because it offers installing emulator device, which can't possibly work without the emulator package)
[11:29] <nerochiaro> mzanetti: ok, i'll try that
[11:29] <mzanetti> nerochiaro: what do you want to do with it?
[11:29] <nerochiaro> mzanetti: i'm fixing a bug
[11:29] <nerochiaro> mzanetti: it should let go of the camera when it goes to background
[11:30] <mzanetti> nerochiaro: uh oh... does the app need to take care of that?
[11:30] <nerochiaro> mzanetti: at the moment yes
[11:30] <mzanetti> IMO that should be handled by the QCamera backend
[11:30] <nerochiaro> mzanetti: i agree but it's not the way it works now, and apparently tagger will be preinstalled on OEM images, so we need it to play nice with camera
[11:31] <zbenjamin> popey: that sounds like a bug
[11:32] <mzanetti> nerochiaro: can't we fix it in the backend now? shouldn't be too hard I guess
[11:33] <mzanetti> there are a bunch of other apps too that use the camera
[11:34] <nerochiaro> mzanetti: the problem i think is that once you get back to focus you need to reconfigure the sensor to match what your app needs. either the backend keeps state for apps and restores it when the app comes back to being active, or I don't see any other way to do it automatically
[11:34] <nerochiaro> mzanetti: like video versus photo, flash mode, etc
[11:35] <nerochiaro> mzanetti: that requires some significant work if you want the backend to do it
[11:35] <nerochiaro> mzanetti: but i guess we can have the backend disable the camera on unfocus, at least
[11:36] <nerochiaro> mzanetti: assuming there's a way to get to the application object from the QCamera library
[11:36] <mzanetti> hmm...
[11:36] <mzanetti> not sure if you need the application object
[11:36] <nerochiaro> or rather, from our QCamera backend
[11:36] <nerochiaro> mzanetti: how do you know you've been unfocused by the WM otherwise
[11:36] <nerochiaro> ?
[11:37] <mzanetti> ok, true... but qApp() should give you that
[11:37] <popey> zbenjamin: ok. where do i file it?
[11:38] <mzanetti> nerochiaro: well... just saying... if its too much just work it around. but it'll leave a bunch of other apps broken and it still doesn't sound too complex at a first glance to save those 4 properties
[11:39] <mzanetti> but I haven't ever digged into the camera backend stuff
[11:39] <mzanetti> so I might be wrong
[11:40] <nerochiaro> mzanetti: there's a bunch of properties that camera exposes, and more importantly you need to save them per-app, and then know when an app closes so you can clean up its state to avoid leaks. it's not easy I think
[11:40] <nerochiaro> mzanetti: the easy part is stopping the camera
[11:40] <nerochiaro> mzanetti: i guess that one we can do
[11:40] <mzanetti> nerochiaro: the backend should be in process anyways, no?
[11:41] <zbenjamin> popey: file it against qtcreator-plugin-ubuntu
[11:41] <mzanetti> so if you have 3 apps fighting for the camera, the backend code would run 3 times and you'd just need to save the current state on unfocus and restore it on focus
[11:41] <mzanetti> assuming the ApplicationManager plays nice and calls the unfocusing on one app before the focusing on the other
[11:42] <nerochiaro> mzanetti: need to figure out who's responsible for the backend at the moment and have a chat, but yeah, you have good points
[11:43] <popey> zbenjamin: bug 1367246 - this affects a partner who wants to port their app to ubuntu which is how i discovered it
[11:44] <zbenjamin> popey: thanks
[11:47] <vitimiti> I'm trying to find how to use the new header features instead of the deprecated toolbar, but can't find any documentation about it, how can I find it?
[11:47] <vitimiti> The documentation, I mean
[11:49] <dpm> popey, could you test http://people.canonical.com/~dpm/click/com.ubuntu.reminders_0.5.221_armhf.click ? I included the fix mardy suggested - you'll need to uninstall account-plugin-evernote too
[11:50] <dholbach> jdstrand, do you think you can let me know once you have a bit of time to chat about 1357211?
[11:50] <popey> dpm: sure
[11:50] <dholbach> jdstrand, I'm happy to work on a fix, if you can guide me a little bit, or at least confirm that the .click provided by dpm is the way it should be :)
[11:52] <davmor2> popey: who works on weather app?
[11:52] <popey> davmor2: m-b-o
[11:53] <m-b-o> popey davmor2 o/
[11:54] <dpm> thanks popey
[11:54] <davmor2> m-b-o: I have a small layout issue with the new version, you have edit and settings in the same menu now and it isn't particularly clear which is which,  would + Add Cities maybe be better for edit?
[11:55] <m-b-o> davmor2 agreed
[11:55] <popey> s/Cities/Location/
[11:56] <m-b-o> davmor2 I guess problem is the width of the overlay, which is a problem when the label gets too long
[11:56] <m-b-o> davmor2 popey: like you add a location with a long name
[11:56] <popey> yeah
[11:56] <davmor2> m-b-o: how about just Locations then?
[11:57] <m-b-o> davmor2 yeah, agreed :)
[11:57] <davmor2> popey: ^
[11:58] <dholbach> Could you all help a bit in promoting http://developer.ubuntu.com/resources/app-dev-training/? Thanks a lot in advance.
[11:58] <vitimiti> I will as far as I can
[12:17] <jdstrand> dholbach: I need someone to guide me on what it is supposed to look like :)
[12:17] <dholbach> jdstrand, hum hum... mardy maybe? :)
[12:17] <dholbach> mardy, do you think you can help us with bug 1357211?
[12:17] <jdstrand> dholbach: I guess my questions is why is "evernote-account-plugin" not in "reminders"?
[12:17] <dholbach> jdstrand, I think they were two separate binary packages earlier on
[12:18] <jdstrand> dholbach: the tools currently assume that will be the case
[12:18] <popey> dpm: http://popey.mooo.com/screenshots/device-2014-09-09-131535.png
[12:18] <popey> dpm: i dont get a login screen
[12:19] <dpm> bummer
[12:19] <jdstrand> right, so mardy can tell us if !account-application should be in its own entry in the hooks db. if so, need to change things up
[12:19] <Akiva-Thinkpad> how long until the on-air thing happens?
[12:20] <popey> Akiva-Thinkpad: 2 hours 40
[12:20] <dpm> popey, could you have a chat with mardy to debug this?
[12:20] <mardy> jdstrand: I'm not sure I understand the problem; AFAICT, those hooks could certainly go inside the "reminders" block
[12:20] <m-b-o> popey davmor2 https://code.launchpad.net/~martin-borho/ubuntu-weather-app/edit-label/+merge/233912
[12:20] <popey> mardy: dpm has a click http://people.canonical.com/~dpm/click/com.ubuntu.reminders_0.5.221_armhf.click - and it doesn't quite work
[12:21] <jdstrand> mardy: the problem is the tools fail if they are not in the reminders block
[12:21] <jdstrand> mardy: and I'm wondering if that is correct behavior? (we can maybe add better debugging)
[12:21] <popey> mardy: would appreciate help debugging
[12:21] <jdstrand> popey: we are talking about that now
[12:21] <mardy> popey, dpm: then let's move them inside "reminders", I don't see a big issue with that
[12:21] <popey> oh ☻
[12:22] <mardy> jdstrand: the only difference will be noticed when we support running account plugins under confinement
[12:22] <mardy> jdstrand: if the hooks are under "reminders", then the account plugin will run confined as the "reminders" app
[12:23] <jdstrand> mardy: what kind of confinement are we talking about?
[12:23] <mardy> jdstrand: while it might be better to use its own confinment rules
[12:23] <mardy> jdstrand: aa-exec
[12:23] <jdstrand> mardy: like, we define a new policy group or something?
[12:24] <jdstrand> or template
[12:24] <mardy> jdstrand: I'm not sure that that will be necessary, your call :-)
[12:24] <mardy> jdstrand: what we will need is just to run the account plugin code in a confined profile
[12:25] <jdstrand> ok, that suggests a different entry that will need its own apparmor entry
[12:25] <jdstrand> mardy: so, that only affects account-qml-plugin?
[12:26] <mardy> jdstrand: and account-provider
[12:26] <jdstrand> mardy: let me rephrase
[12:26] <mardy> jdstrand: I guess the question is whether we want to allow click packages which ship just an account plugin (and no app), right?
[12:26] <popey> m-b-o: could you please take a look at https://code.launchpad.net/~zeller-benjamin/ubuntu-weather-app/sdkcompat/+merge/233752
[12:27] <jdstrand> mardy: that isn't the question in my mind :)
[12:27] <mardy> jdstrand: ok :-)
[12:27] <jdstrand> mardy: that is a different question
[12:27] <jdstrand> mardy: the question is what are the different account-* types that need their own policy?
[12:28] <m-b-o> popey yes
[12:28] <m-b-o> dpm popey: weather app has a problem with localizations, abbreviations for max/min in particular.
[12:28] <m-b-o> dpm: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-weather-app/+bug/1366714 don't knwo how to handle this correctly
[12:29] <mardy> jdstrand: I don't understand the question, but if I answer "an account plugin is defined by the data from the account-qml-plugin and account-provider hooks", does that help? :-)
[12:30] <mardy> jdstrand: that is, if it were a deb package, I would expect it to contain those files
[12:31] <dpm> m-b-o, a stopgap measure (but not a solution) would be to add a translator comment to the strings, telling translators to use 1-character translations only
[12:31] <jdstrand> mardy: yes. let me paraphrase: anything specifying account-application should have an accompanying "desktop" and "apparmor" entry. "account-qml-plugin" and "account-provider" need to specified together, and need a separate "apparmor" entry
[12:31] <m-b-o> dpm: in the pot file, right? and request later a review later on in the tranlsation tool?
[12:31] <mardy> jdstrand: correct
[12:32] <jdstrand> s/a separate/an accompanying/
[12:32] <seb128> m-b-o, just stack them vertically if they don't fit side to side?
[12:32] <jdstrand> mardy: ok, what about account-service-- should it be with one, the other, or on its own?
[12:32] <mardy> jdstrand: account-service goes with the app
[12:33] <jdstrand> so, account-application?
[12:33] <dpm> m-b-o, no, on the code. You can add a comment like this to the line above where the text appears. E.g. "// TRANSLATORS: use 1 character for the translation at maximum". Then when you generate the .pot file, these comments will be added there for you
[12:33] <m-b-o> seb128 that would require to adapt the sizes of the other shapes
[12:33] <popey> yes, we use those comments in other apps.
[12:33] <seb128> m-b-o, other solution is to not have those labels, just min/max with colors?
[12:33] <mardy> jdstrand: yes, account-service and account-application should be defined by the app
[12:34] <jdstrand> mardy: ok. is either account-application or account-service optional are are both required?
[12:34] <mardy> jdstrand: it's also possible for an app to not specify an account-service entry, if the service is already in the root fs
[12:34] <dpm> mardy, so you're saying that if I do this the app should then work (as opposed to not showing any accounts for login)? -> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/8299521/
[12:35] <jdstrand> mardy: so account-application could be alone. can account-service be alone?
[12:35] <mardy> jdstrand: I tend to think that if an application uses the "accounts" app armor policy, it should have at least the "account-application" hook -- but let me think more :-)
[12:36] <mardy> jdstrand: you mean a click app having an account-service but no account-application? That sounds weird, I cannot think of any case where that would be useful
[12:36] <m-b-o> seb128 yes, or small icons.... but a redesign is on the way, and it can be solved by fixing the translations. So keeping the current solution would be ok for me...
[12:36] <jdstrand> mardy: ok
[12:37] <seb128> m-b-o, k, so just add the translator comment others suggested?
[12:37] <m-b-o> seb128 yes, will make a MP
[12:37] <jdstrand> mardy: can account-application be specified with a "scope" as opposed to only with a "dekstop" entry?
[12:37] <mardy> dpm: yes, that should be ok :-)
[12:38] <jdstrand> dpm: wait, hold on :)
[12:38] <jdstrand> I'm going to make a recommendation in a moment
[12:38] <jdstrand> after I'm done grilling mardy
[12:38] <mardy> jdstrand: you mean *by* a scope?
[12:38] <mardy> :-)
[12:38] <jdstrand> mardy: I mean:
[12:38] <jdstrand> "foo": {
[12:39] <dpm> jdstrand, I'm not too worried about the click reviewers tools validation atm, but rather on getting the app to work at all first
[12:39] <jdstrand>   "scope": ...,
[12:39] <jdstrand>   "account-applicaton": ...
[12:39] <jdstrand>   "apparmor"
[12:39] <jdstrand> }
[12:39] <dpm> popey, could you give this new click a go? -> http://people.canonical.com/~dpm/click/com.ubuntu.reminders_0.5.222_armhf.click
[12:40] <popey> sure
[12:40] <dpm> thx
[12:40] <jdstrand> dpm: sure, but the tools enforce what is expected. other things may need to change and at a mimimum, you don't want to upload a new manifest that has to be changed immediately
[12:41] <jdstrand> mardy: see my "foo" example, above. is that legal? (well, it should be "apparmor": ..., but you get the idea)
[12:41] <dpm> jdstrand, sure, but I'm not uploading yet, I'm trying to get the changes in the MP to run the app at all. Right now nothing is working, let alone the validation
[12:41] <mardy> jdstrand: so, at the moment, scopes and apps are treated by OA in exactly the same way: they need an account-application entry and a desktop file; however, I've been told that having a desktop file might cause problems for them
[12:41] <mardy> jdstrand: however, I haven't heard any news about that, so the current situation is that the "desktop" entry is still needed for scopes as well
[12:42] <jdstrand> mardy: "scope" and "desktop" may not be specified in the same entry in the hooks db
[12:42] <sturmflut-work> dholbach: I tried to download the App Dev training material referenced in your e-mail. Google Drive gives me a "Server error - We are unable to process your request at this time, please try again later." at the moment. Too much traffic maybe?
[12:42] <jdstrand> because they must use different apparmor templates
[12:43] <mardy> jdstrand: that's fine, I don't mind how it is specified, but then I'd expect that the hook processing the "scope" would generate a .desktop file for the scope
[12:43] <popey> dpm: still blank
[12:43] <mardy> jdstrand: OA needs a name and an icon, and it gets them from the .desktop file
[12:43] <jdstrand> mardy: afaik, it does not currently. you should talk to pete-woods about that
[12:43] <popey> dpm: http://paste.ubuntu.com/8299574/
[12:44] <mardy> jdstrand: OK
[12:44]  * jdstrand is writing a summary of the conversation. gimme a sec
[12:45] <dholbach> sturmflut-work, no idea - let me take a look
[12:45] <dholbach> jdstrand, pastebin of the conversation is here: http://paste.ubuntu.com/8299580/
[12:45] <dholbach> I'll add it to the bug
[12:45] <dpm> mardy, it seems after the changes the system is still not finding any accounts. See http://paste.ubuntu.com/8299574/ - any ideas?
[12:46] <dpm> the "(process:3631): accounts-glib-WARNING **: _ag_manager_exec_query: runtime error while executing "INSERT INTO Services (name, display, provider, type) VALUES ('com.ubuntu.reminders_reminders', 'Evernote', 'evernote', 'sharing');": attempt to write a readonly database" seems to be a hint
[12:48] <mardy> dpm: I'm afraid it's again the same issue we found some time ago: try deleting ~/.config/libaccounts-glib/accounts.db* (you'll lose all of your accounts), then reinstall the click package
[12:49] <jdstrand> mardy: is this accurate: if "account-application" is specified, it must have a corresponding apparmor entry and one of "desktop" or "scope". "account-service" may be specified with "account-application" but must not appear without it. "account-qml-plugin" and "account-provider" must always be specified together and without "account-application" and "account-service". For now, "account-qml-plugin" and "account-provider" triggers a manual re
[12:50] <m-b-o> dpm seb128: https://code.launchpad.net/~martin-borho/ubuntu-weather-app/fix-1366714-min-max-overlayed/+merge/233916
[12:50] <dpm> mardy, so even if that works, does that mean we cannot ship an updated Reminders app until there is a way to write to the database?
[12:51] <dholbach> jdstrand, I think you were cut off towards the end?
[12:51] <jdstrand> mardy: http://paste.ubuntu.com/8299618/
[12:51] <jdstrand> meh
[12:52] <jdstrand> mardy: http://paste.ubuntu.com/8299628/
[12:52] <ahayzen_> Hey, anyone know what has caused this jenkins failure? http://<IP_ADDRESS>:8080/job/music-app-ci/1113/ It seems to be stating something todo with GPG keys? 'gpgkeys: key BB82C3A8CA549E74B3C79789322391EC382C744F can't be retrieved gpg: no valid OpenPGP data found.'
[12:53] <jdstrand> ahayzen_: that seems to be related to the click package signing landing. I don't have more details, but I think they are/have discussed it in #ubuntu-ci-eng
[12:53] <popey> mardy: i tried deleting those, installing the click, reboot and still see blank in the accounts dialog - http://paste.ubuntu.com/8299654/
[12:54] <mardy> jdstrand: yes, though I don't see a big issue if we break this constraint "and without "account-application" and "account-service""
[12:54] <ahayzen_> jdstrand, ah :/ ... i thought things were done via debs within jenkins though?
[12:54] <jdstrand> mardy: well, we answered that before. if the qml plugin is going to use a different template, it needs to have a different apparmor entry
[12:55] <mardy> jdstrand: OK, fine by me
[12:55] <jdstrand> mardy: desktop has one set of templates. scopes another and the qml plugin another
[12:56] <mardy> popey: I don't understand what's happening there; I just see that there are not accounts. What is happening, and what is expected to happen?
[12:56] <jdstrand> mardy: which leads us back to your question> can a click ship a qml plugin without a corresponding appliction?
[12:56] <mardy> jdstrand: cool .-)
[12:56] <popey> mardy: i go to add account, and i get a blank account screen, not the web page I expect where I'd login to evernote
[12:57] <mardy> jdstrand: since you are creating a template for the account plugins, we might want to answer "yes"
[12:57] <jdstrand> mardy: if it is useful, I don't see any reason why we wouldn't allow it
[12:57] <mardy> jdstrand: or at least, you re making it theoretically possible
[12:57] <popey> mardy: http://popey.mooo.com/screenshots/device-2014-09-09-131535.png there should be a login page there
[12:57] <mardy> jdstrand: yep
[12:58] <mardy> popey: ah, ok; and what does "find ~/.local/share/accounts/" say?
[12:58] <jdstrand> mardy: right. for now, it would still trigger a manual review, but in the future once they can run under confinement, the template is written and everything is hooked up to do it, it could be an automatic check
[12:58] <mardy> jdstrand: indeed
[12:58] <jdstrand> cool
[12:59] <jdstrand> dpm: ok, please have the manifest follow http://paste.ubuntu.com/8299628/
[12:59] <jdstrand> dholbach: I'll do the patch to the tools
[12:59] <popey> mardy: http://paste.ubuntu.com/8299692/
[12:59] <dholbach> thanks a lot jdstrand!
[12:59] <jdstrand> popey, dholbach: if it comes in before I am done with the tools, please just make sure it conforms to http://paste.ubuntu.com/8299628/
[13:00] <dholbach> added all info to the bug
[13:01] <dpm> thanks jdstrand
[13:02] <jdstrand> dholbach, dpm: np
[13:02] <mardy> popey: that paste looks terribly familiar :-)
[13:03] <mardy> popey: the qml-plugins directory does not contain Main.qml, it looks like the account-qml-plugin hook is given the wrong data
[13:04] <mardy> popey: that @ACCOUNT_QML_PLUGIN_DIR@, if you remember
[13:07] <dpm> mardy, that was fixed in http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~dpm/reminders-app/account-click/revision/221, unless I did something wrong
[13:09] <mardy> dpm: and you also don't have any qml files under ~/.local/share/accounts/ ?
[13:12] <dpm> popey, ^
[13:23] <popey> i pastebinned the output dpm mardy
[13:24] <popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8299692/
[13:25] <nerochiaro> zbenjamin: i'm still having problems with ssh. what i'm doing is on the desktop ssh-keygen -t dsa, then adb push ~/.ssh/id_dsa.pub /tmp, then go in as phablet via adb and do cat /tmp/id_dsa.pub > ~/.ssh/authorized_keys2, then try to ssh into the phone (ssh -v -p 10000<EMAIL_ADDRESS>and it tells me that it's "Offering DSA public key: /home/nerochiaro/.ssh/id_dsa" but then "Permission denied (publickey)"
[13:25] <nerochiaro> zbenjamin: i don't undersand why it doesn't accept my key
[13:26] <zbenjamin> nerochiaro: i have connection problems myself, seems the phone goes into a reconnect loop when qtc is started
[13:26] <zbenjamin> nerochiaro: but its different from your problem
[13:26] <nerochiaro> zbenjamin: yes, this is outside qtc
[13:30] <nerochiaro> zbenjamin: ok i got it. the problem was that the permissions on .ssh were wrong. the dir needs to have chmod 700 and the files inside it chmod 600, or sshd will be angry
[13:30] <zbenjamin> nerochiaro: arrgh yeah of course
[13:32] <nerochiaro> zbenjamin: but the biggest problem is: qtc will create the .ssh directory as owned by root:root
[13:32] <nerochiaro> zbenjamin: so of course it won't work
[13:34] <nerochiaro> zbenjamin: so the bug is: .ssh is created as root, and the chmod bits are wrong on both the dir and the authorized_keys2 file. Want me to file a bug ?
[13:34] <zbenjamin> nerochiaro: huh, do you have the latest image?
[13:34] <nerochiaro> zbenjamin: it's qtc that creates it
[13:34] <nerochiaro> zbenjamin: and yes, latest image, flashed this morning
[13:34] <zbenjamin> nerochiaro: what user are you if you do adb shell?
[13:35] <nerochiaro> zbenjamin: root
[13:35] <zbenjamin> nerochiaro: thats wrong, you should be phablet
[13:35] <ahayzen_> balloons, FYI i just merged this with trunk so you'll need to rerun that trial run (as it had conflicts before) https://code.launchpad.net/~andrew-hayzen/ubuntu-calculator-app/autopilot-move-py3/+merge/233799
[13:35] <zbenjamin> nerochiaro: which channel?
[13:35] <nerochiaro> zbenjamin: rtm proposed
[13:36] <nerochiaro> zbenjamin: ubuntu-touch/ubuntu-rtm/14.09-proposed
[13:38] <dholbach> salut davidcalle - ça va?
[13:40] <sturmflut-work> dholbach: Any luck with the training material download link?
[13:41] <nerochiaro> zbenjamin: another thing. in the manifest, what is exactly the key i need to change to make it possible to install the app via qtc ? "name" ?
[13:41] <davidcalle> Salut dholbach :)
[13:41] <nerochiaro> zbenjamin: i changed it from com.ubuntu.gallery to com.ubuntu.gallerydev and it still asks me to change the name
[13:41] <zbenjamin> nerochiaro: check out click list if the app is already installed
[13:41] <dholbach> sturmflut-work, for me it worked - I just downloaded https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/presentation/d/1KEGJEm4IWr06Rn-rB8q4R6CI_nTcJ94lu_ZbKdEc0ro/edit#slide=id.g3910e7ce9_2_6 as .pdf
[13:42] <zbenjamin> nerochiaro: if you are root, try click list and click list --user=phablet
[13:42] <nerochiaro> zbenjamin: it is installed, but you said if i rename the manifest then it should work, no ?
[13:43] <zbenjamin> nerochiaro: if  com.ubuntu.gallerydev  is installed it won't. Did you remove the cable without stopping the app in qtc?
[13:44] <nerochiaro> zbenjamin: gallerydev is not installed. gallery is
[13:44] <zbenjamin> nerochiaro: that is weird then
[13:45] <dholbach> sturmflut-work, yep, tried again to log in with a different google account and it worked as well
[13:45] <dholbach> davidcalle, can you try to open https://drive.google.com/?authuser=0#folders/0B2SKL58Ipf7eeEdpYW5SdVlUU3M  and see if that works?
[13:45] <zbenjamin> nerochiaro: please check if click list --user=phablet and click list --user=root does not contain it
[13:46] <nerochiaro> zbenjamin: none of these contain gallerydev
[13:47] <davidcalle> dholbach, works
[13:47] <dholbach> sturmflut-work, I don't know what's happening in your case then :-/
[13:47] <dholbach> thanks davidcalle
[13:47] <sturmflut-work> dholbach: I don't have a Google Account, I log in with my Launchpad Account. I get to the Launchpad login mask, log in, and then the "Server Error" shows up immediately. Happens with Firefox and Chromium.
[13:47] <dholbach> ok, let me see then
[13:49] <sturmflut-work> dholbach: I had a co-worker log into Google Drive with his Google Account and then open https://drive.google.com/?authuser=0#folders/0B2SKL58Ipf7eeEdpYW5SdVlUU3M directly. It worked.
[13:50] <dholbach> I checked the preferences and it says "everyone who has the link can view"
[13:51] <davidcalle> dholbach, nice presentations and I love the workshop !
[13:53] <dholbach> davidcalle, I had loads and loads of help from dpm, mhall119, popey and balloons and others
[13:53] <dholbach> sturmflut-work, can you try again?
[13:55] <sturmflut-work> dholbach: Same problem. Launchpad login mask, then on to the Server error page.
[13:55] <dholbach> bizarre :-/
[13:56] <sturmflut-work> dholbach: Why is my Launchpad ID linked to Google Drive anyways? And why doesn't Launchpad tell me which data is transmitted to Google, like when I go to the Launchpad Bugtracker?
[13:56] <beuno> that's Google's SAML
[13:56] <dholbach> sturmflut-work, it could be because I used my work accounts to create the doc folder
[13:59] <dholbach> sturmflut-work, if you're around for a bit longer, I'll try to create it with my personal account and see if that works
[14:01] <sturmflut-work> beuno, dholbach: I don't remember being asked if I wanted to give my data to Google through Launchpad. I use an Ubuntu Touch device so I can avoid Google completely. Hosting data on Google Drive while Canonical has an excellent server infrastructure seems a bit... well... strange. Why not simply version the training material with Bazaar and have a Launchpad page for it? That way people could even fork it, improve it and contribute
[14:01] <sturmflut-work> back.
[14:01] <beuno> sturmflut-work, FWIW, Google doesn't get any information
[14:02] <beuno> it's just the authentication system
[14:02] <beuno> it asks Ubuntu SSO if this user is authenticated
[14:02] <beuno> we vouch for you and they let you move on
[14:03] <popey> dholbach: https://drive.google.com/?authuser=0#folders/0B2SKL58Ipf7eeEdpYW5SdVlUU3M doesn't work without a google account
[14:03] <popey> dholbach: try it in an incognito window
[14:04] <sturmflut-work> beuno: They now know my Launchpad User ID, my IP address, and which content I am interested in. They can track all my actions inside Google Drive. I don't see any need to go with Google at all, their service simply isn't needed to distribute this material.
[14:05] <sturmflut-work> dholbach, beuno: No offense, but if I wanted to hang around with Google, I would buy an Android phone
[14:05] <beuno> sturmflut-work, unfortunately, we use many Google services in the community\
[14:06] <beuno> Google hangouts is the main tool for vUDS, for example
[14:09] <ahayzen_> balloons, popey, mind pushing music to the store when you have a moment, as it had one failure in CI and we are hoping some of the autopilot refactor changes that just landed will fix it :)
[14:11] <popey> ahayzen_: sure, just triggered a build, will poke balloons when it's done
[14:12] <ahayzen_> popey, thanks :)
[14:12] <balloons> ahayzen_, yes I agree and hope the AP cleanup tidies things up
[14:12] <balloons> how's ap refactor #4 coming
[14:12] <balloons> ?
[14:12] <ahayzen_> balloons, any ideas what happened with? http://<IP_ADDRESS>:8080/job/music-app-ci/1113/console
[14:13] <ahayzen_> balloons, its going well just battling code comments/spellings/readability with victor at the moment ;) hehe
[14:13] <balloons> ahayzen_, looks like it couldn't get a key and just stopped
[14:14] <ahayzen_> balloons, would a rerun fix it? as i've seen other apps are running through fine?
[14:14] <ahayzen_> balloons, note this is the mp where i'm adding the url-dispatcher tests so it will (hopefully) be bringing down that dependency
[14:16] <balloons> ahayzen_, kicked off some re-runs. I think weather and shorts are good to go.
[14:16] <ahayzen_> balloons, what was the one failure on weather py3?
[14:16] <balloons> ahayzen_, see my comment. I think it's a trunk failure
[14:16] <ahayzen_> balloons, and i merged calculator py3 with trunk as it had conflicts so that would need rerunning
[14:16] <ahayzen_> balloons, oh u've just done it :)
[14:18] <zbenjamin> nerochiaro: any success?
[14:19] <nerochiaro> zbenjamin: only with ssh. the app renaming still doesn't work. I'm ATM manually installing the click that qtc pushes and run the app from the shell. not ideal but at least i'm not blocked.
[14:19] <zbenjamin> nerochiaro: can you please go to the builddirectory and check in the .ubuntu-sdk-deploy subdirectory if the manifest.json contains the correct ID?
[14:19] <nerochiaro> zbenjamin: ok, one minute
[14:21] <popey> balloons: can you upload http://s-jenkins.ubuntu-ci:8080/job/music-app-click/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/out/com.ubuntu.music_1.3.620_all.click please?
[14:21] <sturmflut-work> dholbach, beuno: I might add that all other material linked to on http://developer.ubuntu.com/resources/app-dev-training/ works out of the box, but the folder with the materials ("some materials prepared for you") does not.
[14:22] <dholbach> sturmflut-work, ok, I'll look into this in a bit - thanks a lot for your help and feedback
[14:22] <nerochiaro> zbenjamin: the name is not changed in the manifest in the build dir
[14:23] <zbenjamin> nerochiaro: thats why it does not work
[14:23] <zbenjamin> nerochiaro: did you see my MP for the gallery app
[14:23] <zbenjamin> ?
[14:23] <nerochiaro> zbenjamin: i don't think i did
[14:23] <nerochiaro> zbenjamin: so why isn't qtc copying the manifest correctly ?
[14:24] <zbenjamin> nerochiaro: https://code.launchpad.net/~zeller-benjamin/gallery-app/sdkcompat/+merge/233884
[14:24] <zbenjamin> nerochiaro: qtc is not copying it, cmake is
[14:24] <beuno> popey, dholbach, so, automatic approval/rejection of click packages is very close to just being a config change away. Do you guys have any feedback on the auto-review run that is currently in place?
[14:24] <zbenjamin> nerochiaro: you use trusty + ppa right?
[14:24] <nerochiaro> zbenjamin: no i'm oneiric
[14:25] <popey> beuno: no. do it! :D
[14:25] <beuno> popey, I assume that means you have updated your CV?  :)
[14:25] <popey> haha
[14:25] <zbenjamin> nerochiaro: you serious?
[14:25] <beuno> whenever MANUAL_REVIEW is triggered, it'll get put in the queue still, FYI
[14:25] <popey> beuno: yes, I added "* Is able to run shell scripts on demand" to it
[14:25] <nerochiaro> zbenjamin: sorry, i meant utopic
[14:25] <zbenjamin> nerochiaro: i did not even know we have packages for that old release
[14:26] <zbenjamin> nerochiaro: you shocked me ;)
[14:26] <nerochiaro> zbenjamin: i get release names mixed up sometimes ;)
[14:26] <nerochiaro> sorry
[14:26] <beuno> we'll probably want to move to some sort of notification at some point, as manual reviews become rare
[14:26] <balloons> popey, https://myapps.developer.ubuntu.com/dev/click-apps/143/changerequest/
[14:26] <zbenjamin> nerochiaro: ok then you should have the version with the new manifest editors right?
[14:26] <zbenjamin> nerochiaro: you don'T use the publish page anymore to edit the manifest file
[14:26] <nerochiaro> zbenjamin: correct
[14:27] <nerochiaro> zbenjamin: i edit the name in the editor and i see the cahnge in the .json file on disk
[14:27] <zbenjamin> nerochiaro: ok so check out my MP, it should make it work out of the box
[14:27] <nerochiaro> zbenjamin: will do that ASAP
[14:27] <zbenjamin> nerochiaro: can you please do a "find . -name *manifest*" on your project tree?
[14:27] <zbenjamin> nerochiaro: if there are multiple files thats the problem
[14:31] <balloons> fginther, calculator and rss reader are both ready to move to python3 in jenkins. MP's are ready and tested passing on python3.
[14:31] <frantique> hi all
[14:32] <balloons> ahayzen_, looks like weather needs to have it's failing test fixed in trunk before we can move it to py3, but your changes are good ahayzen_
[14:35] <popey> balloons: done, thanks. ahayzen_ store upload done
[14:35] <ahayzen_> balloons, popey thanks :)
[14:36] <sturmflut-work> Are there any plans to support more graphics libraries than just Qt on devices? I know that SDL has a backend for Mir, it would be funny to port some SDL applications to my phone.
[14:36] <ahayzen_> balloons, the weather issue is definitely failing in trunk and its not a py2 vs py3 issue right?
[14:37] <balloons> ahayzen_, I didn't try a trunk build, but yea.. nothing to do with you
[14:38] <popey> sturmflut-work: in theory SDL2 apps should work..
[14:38] <popey> sturmflut-work: I'd love to see some SDL2 sample code running on the device as a proof of concept.
[14:38] <ahayzen_> balloons, cool thanks
[14:40] <sturmflut-work> popey: There is no libSDL pre-installed on my phone (r232). Which means that I would have to include the whole library in the Click package and then load it somehow, right?
[14:40] <fginther> balloons, thanks, I can push an update right now
[14:40] <popey> sturmflut-work: correct
[14:41] <popey> sturmflut-work: would be good to have a framework "qml + libsdl2" to help people to port their SDL2 based apps over
[14:42] <popey> sturmflut-work: would also be interesting to get something like pygame in there too ☻
[14:43] <popey> sturmflut-work: things on my wishlist ☻
[14:45] <nerochiaro> zbenjamin: can you do me a small favor ? I have this branch, which was approved, but no one seems to deem important enough to go through the process of getting released, lp:~phablet-team/gallery-app/gallery-app-remove-qmlproject it's a tiny change and I think it will fit well merged into your branch for gallery-app
[14:46] <nerochiaro> zbenjamin: so we can get both released together
[14:50] <sturmflut-work> popey: Hm, libsdl has a lot of dependencies, the Click package would probably get quite large. And ATM I have no idea how to tell CMake to link against the correct files. But it might be possible.
[14:51] <popey> sturmflut-work: pretty sure we ship many of the dependencies
[14:52] <sturmflut-work> popey: Probably, yes
[15:01] <fginther> balloons, jobs have been updated
[15:09] <swordfish> Hello everyone, yesterday I was working at the terminal. The idea was to use the url-dispatcher to open the terminal emulator with a custom working directory. This should work fine if the app is not started but I'm trying to figure out a way to handle url-dispatch events when the application is already running (the expect behavior will be to open a new tab in the new directory). Is that possible with the
[15:09] <swordfish> current apis and are there some applications already doing that? Thank you in advance...
[15:14] <sturmflut-work> I just checked out https://github.com/Sturmflut/ubuntu-touch-qt3d-cylinder on a different machine (Ubuntu 14.10 with the SDK PPA), opened the project in Qt Creator, changed the Kit to the usual "UbuntuSDK for armhf" and the build fails with the following two error messages:
[15:15] <sturmflut-work> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8300665/
[15:16] <sturmflut-work> The directory is created and it is currently there, but empty
[15:34] <zsombi> renatu: nik90: dudes, I need yr oppinion
[15:35] <nik90> zsombi: w.r.t the margins?
[15:35] <zsombi> nik90: nope :)
[15:35] <zsombi> nik90: I'm trying to integrate the new ListItem with UbuntuListView
[15:36] <zsombi> nik90: thinking about the selectable property, so if UbuntuListView has one, ListItems can connect to it and whenever that changes, ListItems can react on it
[15:37] <zsombi> nik90: like one property would change all the items inside
[15:37] <zsombi> nik90: and the devs wouldn't need to do extra binding for that
[15:38] <nik90> ok
[15:38] <zsombi> nik90: the question: would you be happy if teh UbuntuListView woudl also keep track of who has been selected, like indexes, or most likely that will be gathered by some custom model?
[15:39] <nik90> hmm I am assuming this would important for multiselect mode
[15:39] <zsombi> nik90: I'd see it in a custom model rather than on a separate one which UbuntuListView is keeping track of
[15:39] <zsombi> nik90: yes
[15:39] <zsombi> nik90: if UbuntuListView keeps track of it, it would slow down the scrolling for sure
[15:39] <nik90> zsombi: atm the clock and addressbook uses https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-clock-dev/ubuntu-clock-app/utopic-3.0/view/head:/app/upstreamcomponents/MultipleSelectionVisualModel.qml
[15:40] <zsombi> nik90: however if it's in the main model that ULV gets, it'd be straight fw
[15:41] <zsombi> nik90: aham... nice approach!!!
[15:42] <zsombi> nik90: question: why don't you use UbuntuListView?
[15:42] <zsombi> nik90: you are using only ListView...
[15:43] <zsombi> nik90: in this way you may loose all improvements we will add to UbuntuListView... like cache size will come soon...
[15:43] <nik90> zsombi: ask renatu about it since I took this from the address book
[15:43] <nik90> https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-clock-dev/ubuntu-clock-app/utopic-3.0/view/head:/app/upstreamcomponents/MultipleSelectionListView.qml
[15:43] <nik90> that's the main multiselection listview we use
[15:45] <zsombi> nik90: yes, I saw it, that's why I asked :)
[15:45] <zsombi> nik90: but the approach is nice!!!
[15:46] <nik90> well full credit to renatu
[15:46] <nik90> hope that answered your original question
[15:47] <zsombi> nik90: yes, it did... and I see it beneficial to integrate it with UbuntuListView...
[15:48] <zsombi> nik90: or provide a separate component that extends that...
[15:49] <nik90> atm is it beneficial to switch to ubuntulistview? or wait until the new listitems to land before doing so?
[15:50] <nik90> because afaik my plan was to switch to the new listitems asap since that would reduce code on my end and be more closer to the sdk rather than using custom components
[15:50] <zsombi> nik90: hold on yet with that, perhaps we will move this whole stuff under it!
[15:50] <nik90> cool
[15:50] <zsombi> nik90: the new listitem will land later... I mean all teh MRs will land slowly
[15:51] <zsombi> nik90: if you have some time to check it: https://code.launchpad.net/~zsombi/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/84-pressandhold/+merge/233938
[15:51] <nik90> I know I have been keeping track..no hurry on my end since I already have a solution I use
[15:51] <zsombi> nik90: this is the last one
[15:51] <dpm> jdstrand, would you mind double-checking if http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/8300911/ conforms to http://paste.ubuntu.com/8299628/ ?
[15:52] <dpm> i.e. the manifest file for Reminders
[15:52] <zsombi> nik90: at least teh last one complete :) with selection mode enabled
[16:07] <zsombi> nik90: renatu: the divider and header tweaks MR https://code.launchpad.net/~zsombi/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/listitem-divider-header-tweaks/+merge/233953
[16:08] <ahayzen_> balloons, did you trigger a rerun on https://code.launchpad.net/~andrew-hayzen/music-app/add-url-dispatcher-tests/+merge/233840 ?
[16:09] <jdstrand> dpm: it does
[16:11] <nik90> zsombi: in the email you said, "As Jouni said, you can customise the left/right margins of a ListItem through the divider property." ... which divider property?
[16:11] <nik90> zsombi: if I use ListItem.Standard, does it have a divider property?
[16:11] <nik90> or are you referring to ListItem.ThinDivider?
[16:11] <zsombi> nik90: Empty.divider it was there looooooong time ago
[16:12] <nik90> zsombi: wat...never knew about it..I only knew about showDivider property
[16:12] <zsombi> nik90: sorry dude :)
[16:12] <balloons> ahayzen_, no, but I can
[16:13] <ahayzen_> balloons, if you could thanks :)
[16:13] <balloons> done
[16:13] <ahayzen_> balloons, hopefully it'll work this time :)
[16:13] <zsombi> nik90: the new API will have the divider as well, but the margins you'll set as divider.leftMargin whereas now you need divider.anchors.leftMargin
[16:14] <nik90> zsombi: so If I was using a custom listitem, should I derive it from ListItem.Base or ListItem.Empty?
[16:14] <nik90> I fail to see the distinction between the two (base and empty)
[16:14] <zsombi> nik90: whichever, depending on yr need
[16:17] <popey> ahayzen_: http://ci.ubuntu.com/smokeng/utopic/touch_stable/mako/30:20140909:20140903.1/10314/  could you take a look at those failures please?
[16:17] <nik90> zsombi: thnx for letting me know..until now, I was thinkign of setting showDivider: false, and then adding a ListItem.ThinDivider{} insider the ListItem.Base{} which now sounds so stupid of me
[16:17] <popey> (specificually music app)
[16:17] <ahayzen_> popey, is this on rtm?
[16:17] <ahayzen_> popey, i blame music app having a mediascanner2 db version that is newer than what has landed in rtm?
[16:18] <ahayzen_> popey, at a first glance ;)
[16:18] <popey> ah, can we fix that?
[16:18] <balloons> ahayzen_, I thought we pushed the ms package version you needed
[16:18] <ahayzen_> popey, by breaking devel-proposed CI tests? or by landing the new ms2 in rtm? ...
[16:18] <balloons> I requested it
[16:19] <ahayzen_> balloons, that was for devel-proposed
[16:19] <ahayzen_> balloons, popey, i guess ms2 is newer in utopic than rtm?
[16:20] <ahayzen_> popey, if you have a device on rtm what is the output of $ apt-cache policy mediascanner2.0 ?
[16:20] <balloons> 0.104+14.10.20140825-0ubuntu1
[16:20] <popey>   Installed: 0.105+14.10.20140903-0ubuntu1
[16:20] <ahayzen_> i have 0.105+14.10.20140903-0ubuntu1 on devel-proposed
[16:21] <popey> bah
[16:21] <popey> hang on
[16:21] <popey>   Installed: 0.104+14.10.20140825-0ubuntu1
[16:21] <balloons> yeppers
[16:21] <balloons> So you want the newer one?
[16:21] <ahayzen_> this is what caused #222 to fail and we bumped the db version in the tests....but obvious rtm has not caught up :(
[16:21] <balloons> I thought for sure we pushed that to rtm..
[16:21]  * balloons is going crazy
[16:22] <balloons> I remember doing this, lol
[16:22] <ahayzen_> balloons, yeah we'll want the newer ms2 to land in rtm
[16:22] <ahayzen_> balloons, silo 14 and 20 on rtm look familiar
[16:23] <balloons> ahayzen_, indeed
[16:23] <balloons> So, I guess we just need those to land
[16:24] <ahayzen_> balloons, yep probably just one of them...i think silo 14 IIRC
[16:24] <Akiva-Thinkpad> balloons, Great video btw; I think that is the first time ive seen you on ubuntu-on-air.
[16:25] <ahayzen_> popey, balloons how are we going to deal with this in the future if rtm and devel-proposed totally split?
[16:25] <ahayzen_> ...guess we want to somehow remove the patching
[16:25] <popey> well, I dont like having the database in the test
[16:26] <ahayzen_> neither do we as we constantly trying to catch up
[16:26] <popey> it would be cleaner to let ms2 do its own thing
[16:26] <popey> or even use sql statements to create the database?
[16:26] <ahayzen_> i can't remember what the exact reason was? balloons wasn't it something like ms2 would still read the files from /home/phablet/Music and not the fixture even with the env vars ?
[16:27] <balloons> Akiva-Thinkpad, ohh :-) We swap weeks, so I'm on every other week, but normally with mhall119
[16:27] <balloons> glad you had fun, I know I did!
[16:27] <ahayzen_> popey, we use sql statements...but obviously they need columns added/removed etc when the schema changes
[16:27] <dpm> thanks jdstrand
[16:27] <popey> oh i see
[16:27] <Akiva-Thinkpad> :)
[16:27] <ahayzen_> popey, here http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~music-app-dev/music-app/trunk/view/head:/tests/autopilot/music_app/content/mediascanner-2.0/mediastore.sql
[16:28] <balloons> popey, ahayzen_ the db patching was removed but then put back after the revert from using mediascanner via dbus
[16:28] <ahayzen_> popey, and we find'n'replace /home/phablet/Music in that .sql and replace it with the tmp dir before running it
[16:28] <zsombi> nik90: :) ywc
[16:29] <dpm> swordfish, you might want to ask tedg on the #ubuntu-touch channel about url dispatchers. He's one of the experts and should be able to help you out
[16:29] <balloons> if mediascanner is here to stay as-is, then some time could be invested to make it more elegant
[16:29] <ahayzen_> yep
[16:30] <ahayzen_> balloons, it may as simple as ms2 just needs to listen to the environment variables or something to resolve the issue
[16:31] <balloons> yes it might be really simple
[16:32] <zsombi> nik90: renatu: ah, btw, you may want to use DelegateModel instead of VisualDataModel
[16:38] <Akiva-Thinkpad> What the? Where is the project file for ubuntu-calendar-app? I just branched it and now I cant find it..
[16:40] <ahayzen_> balloons, hmm so one of the url-dispatcher tests failed due to me (bad merge conflict resolution)... but the other looks like url-dispatcher-tools wasn't installed? http://<IP_ADDRESS>:8080/job/generic-mediumtests-utopic-python3/269/testReport/junit/music_app.tests.test_music/TestMainWindow/test_url_dispatcher_music_play_with_mouse_/
[16:41] <ahayzen_> balloons, where would i see in the logs the package being installed if it was ? i assume here http://<IP_ADDRESS>:8080/job/music-app-utopic-amd64-ci/338/console ?
[16:42] <balloons> look at the rawlog: http://<IP_ADDRESS>:8080/job/generic-mediumtests-utopic-python3/269/consoleText
[16:42] <popey> Akiva-Thinkpad: qtcreator CMakeLists ...
[16:42] <Akiva-Thinkpad> i looked for it...
[16:42] <balloons> ahayzen_, Setting up url-dispatcher:amd64 (0.1+14.10.20140905.1-0ubuntu1) ... it installed
[16:42]  * Akiva-Thinkpad looks again
[16:43] <ahayzen_> balloons, ok i see it installing url-dispatcher-tools so that part is fine...hmm wonder why it didn't work, it was working on device with adt earlier :/
[16:43] <balloons> that I cannot answer
[16:43] <balloons> :-)
[16:43] <popey> Akiva-Thinkpad: in latest trunk CMakeLists.txt is there
[16:43] <ahayzen_> hah
[16:43] <swordfish> dpm, thank you very much. Will do that!
[16:44] <Akiva-Thinkpad> yep your right
[16:44] <ahayzen_> balloons, hmmm do you think it should be calling the fake directory directly? or should it be doing /home/$USER/Music and letting the fixture translate?
[16:44]  * Akiva-Thinkpad scratches head ; how did I miss that
[16:45] <balloons> ahayzen_, I haven't looked at the test in question
[16:45] <ahayzen_> balloons, this is the error subprocess.CalledProcessError: Command '['url-dispatcher', 'music:///tmp/tmplitloc25/Music/1.ogg']' returned non-zero exit status 1
[16:45] <balloons> ahayzen_, can you get the actual error from the subprocess call
[16:46] <balloons> that wouldbe useful :-)
[16:46] <ahayzen_> erm maybe...but it works on my device :)
[16:47] <dpm> swordfish, yw. In terms of helping out with Terminal, you might want to join the weekly meeting. popey should be able to give you the details about when it's happening
[16:49] <zsombi> nik90: renatu: ok, I think I'll make a component which can then be used with UbuntuListView and will support single/multiple selections.
[16:49] <dpm> swordfish, ah, I didn't recognise your IRC nick :)
[16:49] <dpm> so you are well aware of the meeting time, then :)
[16:51] <swordfish> dpm, ahahah me neither. Welcome back! :)
[16:51] <dpm> thanks :)
[16:51] <renatu> zsbomi, until now I have been using this one: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~phablet-team/address-book-app/staging/view/head:/src/imports/Ubuntu/Contacts/MultipleSelectionListView.qml
[16:51] <popey> :D
[16:51] <popey> you guys!
[16:51] <dpm> usually it's the other way round here: you get to know people on IRC and then in person :)
[16:51] <mihir> nik90: ping
[16:52] <dpm> not used to these new world of meeting real people first ;)
[16:53] <mihir> nik90: did you push that MR ?
[16:55] <sturmflut-work> When I start https://github.com/Sturmflut/kitworkingtimeapp/blob/master/main.qml I get several "QQuickWindow: possible QQuickItem::polish() loop" messages and the app runs extremely slow, both on the Desktop and on the device. Any ideas?
[16:56] <swordfish> dpm, that was really great! I'm still laughing!...
[16:56] <ahayzen_> balloons, i must have broken something i'm getting "No such file or directory: 'url-dispatcher'" locally now :(
[16:56] <dpm> :)
[17:15] <nik90> mihir: no I couldn't work on it
[17:16] <nik90> mihir: so I got nothing atm
[17:16] <mihir> nik90: no issues, now when i take latest trunk code and open CMake file and run on desktop
[17:16] <mihir> it says couldn't find .deskop file
[17:17] <mihir> nik90: :-1: error: [CMakeFiles/com.ubuntu.calendar_calendar.desktop] Error 127
[17:24] <mihir> nik90: any idea ?
[17:36] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Do the faded ubuntu colours have official color hashes applied to them, or do I have to make them up? Say for 10% ubuntu orange would be 10% opacity?
[17:37] <Akiva-Thinkpad> if there are not any, then I am going to create a spreadsheet, because the website is seriously lacking in this data
[17:38] <nik90> mihir: hmm
[17:38] <nik90> mihir: one sec
[17:39] <mihir> nik90: i guess need to have i36 archietecture kit
[17:40] <nik90> mihir: let me try
[17:42] <nik90> mihir: it works on my utopic vm desktop perfectly
[17:42] <mihir> which kit you using ?
[17:43] <nik90> mihir: just the desktop kit
[17:44] <mihir> Hmmm
[17:44] <mihir> it gives me error , anyother dependecies should be installed ?
[17:44] <mihir> wir to Cmake?
[17:44] <nik90> which file are you opening?
[17:45] <mihir> nik90: CMakeLists.txt
[17:45] <nik90> mihir: do you have python3, intltool installed?
[17:46] <nik90> I had error when missing them
[17:48] <mihir> nik90: let me try that. it is downloading another kit.
[17:49] <nik90> mihir: is this a utopic vm?
[17:49] <nik90> or something?
[17:49] <mihir> yup utopic
[17:49] <nik90> mihir: you shouldn't be needing any extra kit since the desktop kit is created by default
[17:49] <mihir> nik90: it was working fine previously,
[17:49] <nik90> mihir: only when you need to run on emulator or device you need those kits created
[17:50] <mihir> nik90: hmm...let me try again i guess there is some issues with intltools
[17:50] <nik90> just check if you have it installed or not
[17:50] <nik90> I don't think you changed that tool anytime
[17:50] <nik90> apt-cache policy intltool
[17:50] <nik90> that should tell you
[17:50] <mihir> nik90: regarding restructure of files, I have thought of following bifucrcations , does that make sense or any inputs..http://i.imgur.com/KtROjjX.png
[17:51] <nik90> what's in the common folder?
[17:52] <mihir> nik90: it'll containt all the common UI files, like seprator.qml, pathview base, NewEventEntryField
[17:56] <nik90> mihir: I got some guests over...will talk later
[17:56] <mihir> nik90: no issues :)
[18:38] <mihir> balloons: ping
[18:39] <balloons> mihir, pong
[18:39] <mihir> balloons: while running CMake projects it throws , Could not find a desktop file for the hook: ubuntu-calendar-app.desktop,
[18:39] <mihir> any steps that needs to be followed ?
[18:42] <Akiva-Thinkpad> mihir, balloons nik90, popey, mhall119, And anyone else: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1KgHLiZ09yBtKkD7iLreHdOMcuyUVcEMxpmkXTqLw_KM/edit#gid=0 if you want an ubuntu colour reference sheet with the actual tint values.
[18:44] <Akiva-Thinkpad> the tint values on the ubuntu colours reference sheet were not accurate to use an eye droplet on, so I cooked this one up
[18:45] <mihir> Akiva-Thinkpad: this is great :)
[18:45] <Akiva-Thinkpad> thanks
[18:46] <mihir> Akiva-Thinkpad: it should help a lot :)
[18:47] <Akiva-Thinkpad> one thing I notice is that we don't use the ubuntu colours library. I am thinking of expanding it to include the shades, and then going through the core apps to actually use it.
[18:48] <Akiva-Thinkpad> err, as in replace the raw hex values
[18:50] <mihir> Akiva-Thinkpad: hmm , but i am not sure, that we have all shades availanle in color library
[18:51] <Akiva-Thinkpad> mihir, I am pretty sure we don't
[18:51] <Akiva-Thinkpad> thus I am going to see if I can get it updated
[18:56] <balloons> Ohh.. hex codes ;-)
[18:56] <balloons> mihir, I'm not sure I understand the issue well enough
[18:56] <balloons> where do you see this error and when? in the sdk?
[18:56] <mihir> balloons: okay, we just moved our calednar app from qmlproject to CMake
[18:57] <mihir> balloons: i see when i try to run caledar app from SDK
[18:57] <mihir> balloons: if you can try to get the latest trunk and run it from SDK
[18:58] <balloons> mihir, ahh ok. So I have context. I'll try
[18:59] <mihir> balloons: okay :)
[18:59] <balloons> nik90, re: qml tests writeup. Are you still on-board for doing it?
[19:02] <mihir> Akiva-Thinkpad: you there?
[19:03] <Akiva-Thinkpad> mihir, pong
[19:03] <mihir> Akiva-Thinkpad: can you take latest from calendar and try to run it from SDK ,
[19:03] <Akiva-Thinkpad> sure
[19:03] <mihir> Akiva-Thinkpad: i am just trying to figure out it is because of my machine or something else :|
[19:05] <Akiva-Thinkpad> mihir, runs
[19:05] <Akiva-Thinkpad> cmakelists must not like you :P
[19:05] <mihir> Akiva-Thinkpad: hmmm , then there is something wrong with my vm
[19:06]  * Akiva-Thinkpad knocks on wood
[19:06] <mihir> i can run other apps from cmakelists except calendar
[19:06] <Akiva-Thinkpad> strange
[19:08] <balloons> mihir, I agree. I can open cmakelists.txt file, configure it for the desktop and everything is fine
[19:08] <mihir> balloons: okay
[19:09] <mihir> :(
[19:09] <balloons> file->open project or file->CMakeLists.txt
[19:13] <mihir> balloons: yup doing same. file->Project Location->CMakeList.txt-> Run
[19:13] <mihir> balloons: it gives , http://i.imgur.com/2F15gAb.png
[19:13] <balloons> mihir, ohh, I don't select run on CMakeList
[19:13] <balloons> I hit the button
[19:14]  * mihir feels some home
[19:16] <mihir> Akiva-Thinkpad: did that run application for you ?
[19:16] <Akiva-Thinkpad> mihir, yah build and ran on whatever settings I have now
[19:24] <mihir> Akiva-Thinkpad: HMM OKAY :(
[19:24] <Akiva-Thinkpad> mihir, did you try yelling at it?
[19:25] <mihir> Akiva-Thinkpad: hahah i did...
[19:25] <Akiva-Thinkpad> If that doesn't work, you can also try spitting on it. Call it names if you have to.
[19:31] <mihir> hahaha , now will try tomororw , have to get up early for office time for bed
[19:32] <Akiva-Thinkpad> :S
[19:34] <mhall119> thanks Akiva-Thinkpad, any chance you could provide that at an HTML <table> that could be dropped into a website?
[19:34] <Akiva-Thinkpad> mhall119, sure can do
[19:35] <mhall119> thanks!
[19:38] <mivoligo> mzanetti: hi, got the messages from the Launchpad about fixed bugs. Unfortunately I have painfully slow internet connection right now, so I'll pull that tomorrow morning.
[19:39] <nik90> balloons: yes hell yes :)
[19:41] <balloons> nik90, awesome, anything further you need from me? If you write it in simple HTML, that would be for the best.. Markdown is also fine, but i'll have to convert it to html to post.. easy enough
[19:42] <nik90> Oh you are referring to the example
[19:55] <ahayzen_> balloons, looking at the jenkins log again i've spotted 'APP_ID isn't set, the handler can not be registered
[19:55] <ahayzen_> UCUriHandler: Empty "APP_ID" environment variable, ignoring."' ... could this be what is causing the url-dispatcher not to work?
[19:56] <ahayzen_> balloons, any ideas what i would set the APP_ID to, to see if that resolves the issue?
[19:56] <balloons> nik90, lol.. yea, what did you think?
[19:56] <balloons> ahayzen_, that sounds like a good catch
[19:56] <balloons> ahayzen_, couldn't tell you sorry :-(
[19:56] <nik90> balloons: I was thinking of actual qml test :P
[19:56] <ahayzen_> balloons, note this works on device via adt :)
[19:57] <ahayzen_> balloons, do you know who i can ping for help?
[19:57] <balloons> nik90, ohh yes.. I'm still pushing on that.. remember leo mentioned xfvb should work, so we're trying again
[19:57] <ahayzen_> balloons, guess i could try setting it to com.ubuntu.music or something but i have to wait like 30mins with each attempt before i know if it has worked lol
[19:58] <ahayzen_> balloons, oo i could print what it is on the device in the ap tests i'll try that ...
[20:01] <nik90> balloons: I will try to bring to do in markup to ensure it looks good
[20:01] <ahayzen_> balloons, also why when running adt does it bring down all loads of qt4 things and complains about ignoring python2 things? should it be doing that?
[20:02] <ahayzen_> balloons, hmm and APP_ID is None on device :/ ugh
[20:03] <balloons> ahayzen_, yes the qt4 stuff is known
[20:03] <balloons> it's a packaging thing that wil lbe fixed soon
[20:04] <ahayzen_> ah cool
[20:14] <Akiva-Thinkpad> holy smokes; gedit is slow when it comes to editting html. the program keeps hanging
[20:20] <nik90> balloons: ah ok
[20:20] <balloons> nik90, awesome. Just let me know if I can help or you need anything. I can't wait to see what you write up and it should prove helpful to everyone
[20:21] <balloons> always the willing lab rat nik90 :-)
[20:25] <nik90> lol
[20:34] <mzanetti> mivoligo: hey, no worries. Yes, I fixed the bugs
[20:34] <mzanetti> mivoligo: sorry it took so long
[20:38] <ahayzen_> balloons, now was has happened? http://<IP_ADDRESS>:8080/job/music-app-ci/1116/console looks like dbus or qml exploded?
[20:40] <balloons> ahayzen_, look at: http://<IP_ADDRESS>:8080/job/generic-mediumtests-utopic-python3/272/consoleText
[20:40] <balloons> and yea, ahayzen_ I agree
[20:40] <ahayzen_> balloons, yeah i see 'dbus.exceptions.DBusException: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.Spawn.ExecFailed: //bin/dbus-launch terminated abnormally with the following error: Autolaunch error: X11 initialization failed.'
[20:41] <balloons> re-run?
[20:41] <ahayzen_> balloons, please
[20:41] <balloons> http://<IP_ADDRESS>:8080/job/music-app-ci/1117/
[20:41] <ahayzen_> balloons, i've mod'd a few things to get one of the failing tests a bit further and hopefully give more output to the error but we'll see
[20:41] <ahayzen_> balloons, thanks
[20:42] <mivoligo> mzanetti: no need to be sorry, I'm not fast as well
[20:47] <ahayzen_> balloons, yey a meaningful error....'** (process:29084): WARNING **: Unable to dispatch url 'album:///Francisco T?rrega/':GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.NameHasNoOwner: Name "com.canonical.URLDispatcher" does not exist'
[20:54] <ahayzen_> balloons, who am i best to talk to about this?
[20:55] <balloons> ahayzen_, mmm.. kenvandine or tedg?
[20:55] <balloons> elopio, too might also know enough to help
[20:56]  * kenvandine doesn't know much about url-dispatcher
[20:57] <elopio> ahayzen_: what are you doing on that test? calling url-dispatcher or receiving the call with the fake dbus service?
[20:58] <ahayzen_> elopio, calling
[20:58] <ahayzen_> elopio, like so.. http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~andrew-hayzen/music-app/add-url-dispatcher-tests/view/head:/tests/autopilot/music_app/__init__.py#L27
[21:00] <ahayzen_> elopio, oh no then maybe receiving? i'm calling the url-dispatcher then expecting things to happen within the app
[21:00] <elopio> ahayzen_: I think url-dispatcher doesn't work yet on desktop
[21:00] <ahayzen_> elopio, ah yes thats a good point... even on utopic?
[21:01] <elopio> I think not. But we can give it a try.
[21:01]  * ahayzen_ will try running the tests on his VM
[21:01] <elopio> it works nicely here.
[21:01] <ahayzen_> elopio, hmm so only jenkins then?
[21:02] <elopio> ahayzen_: yes, it could be that url-dispatcher is not running there.
[21:02] <elopio> I do initctl stop url-dispatcher and get the same error.
[21:03] <balloons> #blamejenkins
[21:03] <ahayzen_> lol
[21:03] <ahayzen_> elopio, so i guess i start it in the ap tests then
[21:04] <elopio> I was hoping url-dispatcher-tools to install it. And that once installed, it would start itself.
[21:04] <ahayzen_> elopio, we spotted that being installed last time... so looks like it isn't autostarting
[21:05] <elopio> ahayzen_: yes, according to the logs it's being installed.
[21:06] <ahayzen_> elopio, we shouldn't be worried about the APP_ID things in the logs? (i checked that APP_ID is also None on device) correct?
[21:07] <elopio> ahayzen_: call something like this: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~unity-team/unity8/trunk/view/head:/tests/autopilot/unity8/process_helpers.py#L157
[21:07] <elopio> I have no idea what you are talking about.
[21:07] <ahayzen_> elopio, ok thanks :) ... just ignore me ;) lol there were some APP_ID errors earlier i thought may have been related
[21:21] <Akiva-Thinkpad> mhall119, http://paste.ubuntu.com/8303393/
[21:24] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Is that fine, or does the syntax need to be corrected?
[21:49] <ahayzen_> elopio, i got 'initctl: Unknown job: url-dispatcher' :(
[21:53] <mhall119> Akiva-Thinkpad: looks good, is there a reason Cool Grey doesn't have different shades?
[21:58] <mhall119> Akiva-Thinkpad: http://developer.ubuntu.com/resources/ubuntu-color-codes/ how's that look?
[21:59] <mhall119> that page might move, I'll talk to designers about putting it on design.ubuntu.com
[22:41] <Akiva-Thinkpad>
[23:01] <elopio> ahayzen_: hum, I don't know what might be missing.
[23:01] <ahayzen_> elopio, yeah its strange :/
[23:01] <elopio> url-dispatcher is installed, so it shouldn't say it's an unknown job.
[23:02] <elopio> but we will need help from ci, and there is no ci vanguard at this time.
[23:02] <ahayzen_> elopio, this is the output...http://<IP_ADDRESS>:8080/job/generic-mediumtests-utopic-python3/275/console ..skip to test_url_dispatcher_music_play
[23:02] <ahayzen_> elopio, yeah guess this is something to figure out tomorrow
[23:04] <elopio> ahayzen_: yes, I get that error message when I uninstall url-dispatcher.
[23:04] <elopio> lets ask them tomorrow.
[23:04] <ahayzen_> elopio, hmm but it is pulled down with url-dispatcher-tools so it 'should' be on jenkins
[23:04] <ahayzen_> elopio, agreed
[23:05] <ahayzen_> elopio, thanks for your help so far :)
[23:05] <elopio> ahayzen_: thanks to you.
[23:05] <ahayzen_> elopio, no problem i just want these things being tested so i have a piece of mind that they are working :)
[23:06] <elopio> ahayzen_: just out of curiosity, do the test work for you on your desktop and phone?
[23:06] <ahayzen_> elopio, i've only tried via adt-run on device so far...i was going to do utopic desktop but you said it passed for u?
[23:07] <ahayzen_> elopio, i'll double check to be doubly sure :)
[23:07] <elopio> ahayzen_: I only tried launching music app from url-dispatcher-tools. Not running the tests.
[23:07] <ahayzen_> elopio, ah... so maybe desktop is just busted...hang on let me give it a shot
[23:08] <elopio> ahayzen_: I don't think so. Tests seem okay at least for my real machine. I'll run them too tomorrow when I have less things in my head.
[23:08] <ahayzen_> elopio, hehe ... i'm just waiting for my vm to update
[23:21] <ahayzen_> elopio, i got the same issue as jenkins on my utopic vm
[23:21] <ahayzen_> elopio, doing $ initctl status url-dispatcher in a terminal claims there is no job
[23:22] <ahayzen_> elopio, ah hang on i don't have it installed :P
[23:23] <elopio> ahayzen_: so, you don't have url-dispatcher-tools either, right?
[23:23] <ahayzen_> elopio, ok so after installing i noted that the service was added but stopped...the autopilot test started the service but still failed
[23:23] <elopio> I'm wondering if it's possible to have one without the other
[23:23] <ahayzen_> elopio, all i did was install url-dispatcher-tools and it installed both
[23:24] <elopio> ok, I think that's good.
[23:24] <elopio> I will try to run it now, so we have a good question for CI tomorrow.
[23:24] <ahayzen_> elopio, i got "unable to dispatch url '<my url>' .. Name "com.canonical.URLDispatcher" does not exist
[23:25] <ahayzen_> elopio, ^^ on the utopic vm... so it basically failed at the next stage
[23:25] <ahayzen_> elopio, so the question is why after jenkins has installed url-dispatcher-tools does it still failed to do $ initctl start url-dispatcher ?
[23:34] <elopio> ahayzen_: how are you running the tests?
[23:34] <ahayzen_> elopio, on device via adt-run so... $ ADT_AUTOPILOT_MODULE="-v music_app.tests.test_music.TestMainWindow.test_url_dispatcher_music_play" adt-run /home/andy/Workspace/sdk/music-app-add-url-dispatcher-tests/ --click com.ubuntu.music --- ssh -s adb
[23:34] <elopio> I'm cmake . && make -j 8 && cd tests/autopilot && autopilot3 run music_app.tests.test_music.TestMainWindow.test_url_dispatcher_album_play
[23:35] <elopio> my error is different.
[23:35] <ahayzen_> elopio, on utopic desktop i just did $ autopilot3 run music_app.tests.test_music.TestMainWindow.test_url_dispatcher_album_play
[23:35] <ahayzen_> elopio, what did u get?
[23:36] <elopio> ahayzen_: http://paste.ubuntu.com/8304259/
[23:36] <ahayzen_> elopio, have you updated ur machine recently or not updated to latest mediascanner?
[23:37] <ahayzen_> elopio, if u have updated recently u'll need to stop then start mediascanner2
[23:37] <elopio> ahayzen_: I've just did an upgrade before running the tests.
[23:38] <ahayzen_> elopio, try $ stop mediascanner-2.0 and then $ start mediascanner-2.0
[23:38] <elopio> ahayzen_: same result.
[23:38] <elopio> maybe if I do a dist-upgrade ?
[23:38] <ahayzen_> hmm
[23:39] <ahayzen_> elopio, what version is it after? $ apt-cache policy mediascanner2.0
[23:39] <elopio> wow, I have three mediascanners installed.
[23:40] <ahayzen_> elopio, 3? .. or just the separate bits?
[23:40] <elopio> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8304266/
[23:40] <ahayzen_> hah
[23:40] <ahayzen_> elopio, you need the 2.0-3 one (thats what i have)
[23:41] <elopio> that's the only one I don't have installed :)
[23:41] <ahayzen_> :)
[23:43] <elopio> ahayzen_: I got initctl: Job is already running: url-dispatcher
[23:43] <elopio> which is a lot better than you.
[23:43] <ahayzen_> elopio, heh ... but then did it fail with what i said after that?
[23:43] <ahayzen_> elopio, along the lines of.. "unable to dispatch url '<my url>' .. Name "com.canonical.URLDispatcher" does not exist ?
[23:44] <elopio> ahayzen_: no, not that.
[23:44] <ahayzen_> elopio, what did you get?
[23:44] <elopio> ahayzen_: I replaced start with restart, and now I got
[23:44] <elopio> subprocess.CalledProcessError: Command '['url-dispatcher', b'music:///tmp/tmpfh2x8b2f/Music/1.ogg']' returned non-zero exit status 1
[23:44] <elopio> let me see what's the error that it gives.
[23:45] <ahayzen_> elopio, yeah but if u look further up in the logs...i got what i said
[23:45] <elopio> ** (process:28311): WARNING **: Unable to dispatch url 'music:///tmp/tmpfh2x8b2f/Music/1.ogg':GDBus.Error:com.canonical.URLDispatcher.BadURL: URL 'music:///tmp/tmpfh2x8b2f/Music/1.ogg' is not handleable by the URL Dispatcher
[23:45] <elopio> ah, that's the error we get because it doesn't work on desktop.
[23:45] <ahayzen_> ah
[23:45] <ahayzen_> oh i guess it isn't installed as a click so then it isn't added to the list of accepted protocols?
[23:46] <elopio> ahayzen_: yes, I think so.
[23:46] <ahayzen_> or something along those lines
[23:46] <ahayzen_> elopio, hmm so for now would it be safe just to run these tests on device? ... until url-dispatcher runs on desktop?
[23:47] <elopio> after installing the music-app deb package, I get:
[23:47] <elopio> AssertionError: After 10.0 seconds test on Player.isPlaying failed: True != dbus.Boolean(False, variant_level=1)
[23:47] <elopio> ahayzen_: yes, for now lets just run them on the devices.
[23:48] <elopio> then we can go on and run them if the package was installed.
[23:48] <ahayzen_> elopio, yeah thats because the url was never received so it never started playing the track
[23:48] <elopio> and then we need to figure out how to register the url without installing it, so we can run it on a development branch too.
[23:48] <ahayzen_> elopio, well i usually test with my device first anyway
[23:48] <elopio> for now, it's good enough to have them running on devices.
[23:49] <ahayzen_> elopio, ok i'll disable it for desktop tomorrow...meanwhile i need some sleep ... thanks for your help :)
[23:49] <elopio> good night ahayzen_


[06:52] <dholbach> good morning
[17:55] <jono> hey folks
[17:57] <hippyjake> hi jono!
[17:58] <FlyingPig> hi jono :)
[17:58] <jono> howdy :-)
[18:01] <sdk> YEAH !
[18:01] <FlyingPig> woohoo
[18:01] <hippyjake> your on!
[18:01] <JoshStrobl> We can see you streaming
[18:01] <hippyjake> intertubes
[18:02] <drparny> Aye!
[18:02] <Kouakou> We see you .. !!!
[18:02] <pinguy> I can see you on the interwebs
[18:02] <Jarrick> Hello!
[18:02] <JoshStrobl> Bacon, you're on...
[18:02] <FMGrungekid> Good evening, sire!
[18:06] <pinguy> Question: Ubuntu touch have any hardware vendors yet? If not have you tried Sony? They are very open and are willing to support open source. They are working on a FireFox OS phone.
[18:06] <hippyjake> QUESTION? What are the advantages to the new click package?
[18:06] <FlyingPig> QUESTION: The last Q&A on the ubuntu on air Youtube channel is from April 24th, are there any plans to upload the more recent Q&As?
[18:06] <sebsebseb> ok in ehre now,  was seeing video first :d
[18:06] <Kouakou> QUESTION: I barely got my 4 monitors to work on Ubuntu albeit with issues .. what has MIR got to offer those of us with multiple (read more than 2 ) monitors ??
[18:06] <JoshStrobl> QUESTION: While this question may have been answered before, would you consider the Mir display server an alpha or go as far as to say it is a pre-alpha stage, considering it still utilizes an X compatibility layer? (Hence XMir).
[18:07] <JoshStrobl> QUESTION: Would Mir solve issues related to dynamic graphic card switching, even per application. X11 still requires a restart of the X.Org session.
[18:08] <jono> http://insights.ubuntu.com/articles/blogs/differentiation-without-fragmentation/
[18:08] <drparny> QUESTION: I'm a bit new here. So, what is canonical doing to make available apps for Ubuntu Touch? say like firefox, whatsapp etc etc?
[18:09] <sebsebseb> QUESTION: What are your comments about  the lead developer of Kubuntu formally a Canonical employee saying that Kubuntu won't be supporting Mir at all,  making that quite clear in fact,  X and then Wayland later on.
[18:09] <binmosa> Will Ubuntu touch have cloud services, such as what exists in Android? What make it unique and different from Android ?
[18:09] <jdrab> QUESTION: are there any plans to transfer openid service from launchpad to ubuntu one?
[18:09] <hippyjake> QUESTION: Who is the American operator that signed on?
[18:10] <JoshStrobl> hippyjake -> Doubtful they can reveal that at this moment in time :\
[18:11] <drparny> QUESTION: Will ubuntu phones be available as said? (on awesome H/W hopefully)? I'm holding myself from getting Android ones :( :D
[18:11] <hippyjake> I just heard him say something to that effect JoshStrodl thanks
[18:11] <pinguy> QUESTION: Will Ubuntu Touch use a PPA system for apps?
[18:13] <Guest3018> QUESTION: What are typical customization options for carriers in Ubuntu Touch?
[18:13] <pinguy> QUESTION: What is the state of Ubuntu TV? I haven't heard much about that. Same as Ubuntu for Android. Are these projects now abandonware?
[18:14] <xyzabc> QUESTION: Will 14.04 lts use xmir+unity7 or mir+unity8 by default? Thanks!
[18:19] <naum> question: can you recompile most of the kde and gnome packages under Mir? Do you even need to do that?
[18:21] <pinguy> So Mir doesn't work with Unity 7 so you need another layer to make it work (xMir)? Isn't this going to cause all sorts of problems? This will be a nightmare to fix bugs as it won't be clear if its an bug with xMir or Mir.
[18:23] <naum> question: When Unity8 under Mir becomes available as a preview in 13.10 will we be able to run "old" apps with xmir?
[18:24] <jdrab> naum: please use CAPS for 'question' it will be easier for jono to spot your questions ;)
[18:24] <naum> :(
[18:24] <naum> okay
[18:24] <number22> QUESTION: what will be fate of ubuntu brainstorm
[18:25] <naum> i forgot about that
[18:25] <jdrab> number22: it's dead afaik :D
[18:26] <diska> when we will see first phone in europe?
[18:27] <pinguy> QUESTION: Now Ubuntu is using Mir, is Compiz dead?
[18:30] <pinguy> I saw this coming Months ago with Mir. I spoke to Mark about it here: https://plus.google.com/u/0/116915640151584325691/posts/5fkV79YY62o?cfem=1
[18:34] <drparny> I mean will ubuntu phones be available in october as Mark said? Will be it available in the US?
[18:34] <drparny> QUESTION: Will ubuntu phones be available in october as Mark said? Will be it available in the US?
[18:35] <naum> QUESTION: What about services/apps from major companies, e.g., Google, Netflix, etc.?
[18:35] <naum> QUESTION: On Ubuntu Phone.
[18:35] <pinguy> Isn't scopes still mainly place holders?
[18:35] <number22> QUESTION: do you have any idea about the green dragon that mark shuttleworth uses on his blog/g+ etc
[18:36] <pinguy> http://insights.ubuntu.com/articles/blogs/differentiation-without-fragmentation/
[18:36] <sebsebseb> QUESTION:  Unity 8  is the re done QT/QML Unity?
[18:36] <FlyingPig> QUESTION: Do you think Nvidia will have their drivers ready for Mir by 14.04?
[18:37] <pinguy> Anyone having problems with the stream?
[18:38] <binmosa> What about developing for Ubuntu on other platform (Windows - Mac ) ? Is it only available using Ubuntu ?
[18:41] <sebsebseb> QUESTION: 15 minutes guitar time, if not enough questions? :d
[18:41] <FlyingPig> QUESTION: Mark has a plane? :O
[18:42] <jdrab> :D
[18:42] <xfg> QUESTION: metalica or megadeth?
[18:42] <FMGrungekid> QUESTION: What did you think of Man of Steel?
[18:42] <jdrab> QUESTION: why is mark posting photos on google plus from iphone? :]
[18:42] <pinguy> QUESTION: how long did it take to grow that awesome beard :)
[18:43] <drparny> QUESTION: I understand canonical is in discussion with operators about Ubuntu for Android. So can we expect the source code and binaries available for specific hardware after they release one or few tailored handsets?
[18:43] <Anil> Is python still preferred language for development on Ubuntu, like stated in that tutorial about quickly (which I can't find anymore)?
[18:43] <micah2> QUESTION: outside of the core apps, what are the applications that you feel will be most important to helping Ubuntu Touch launch with a bang?
[18:43] <Jarrick> How about an update on your BBQ action.  ;)
[18:43] <D_shipp> Ok so my question is you were saying the carriers will be bale to customize touch they way they want it to look will we be able to undo or change what they do so we do not have to love with what they do.
[18:44] <binmosa> My question didn't appear ?
[18:44] <binmosa> What about developing for Ubuntu on other platform (Windows - Mac ) ? Is it only available using Ubuntu ?
[18:44] <jdrab> jono: there's no one behhind you today :|
[18:44] <jdrab> as usual :D
[18:45] <theblackdog> what kind of architecture will the hi-low end phone version be? (ARM, x68, x64) and whats about launching desktop aplications on the phone
[18:45] <theblackdog> and a yes for guitar ;)
[18:45] <pinguy> QUESTION: Not sure if you can answer this, but 3 network in the UK has an odd 3G network. When I was making an android ROM I had to work on enabling AMR-WB: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=35463164#post35463164
[18:45] <PipIWYG> I might come onto this late, but I was wondering... I seem to struggle to run the unity-next release, which I had running fine before on 12.10. Any tips?
[18:45] <mhall119> theblackdog: I don't see x86/64 phones taking off any time soon
[18:46] <mhall119> PipIWYG: you need to be on Ubuntu 13.10 to develop and run Unity 8
[18:46] <PipIWYG> ok. tks
[18:47] <pinguy> lol
[18:47] <ubuntourist> QUESTION: Mark DOESN'T have his own private spacecraft? ;-)
[18:47] <number22> QUESTION: beard or moustache
[18:49] <sebsebseb> First guitar vote. Guitar!
[18:49] <number22> +guitar
[18:49] <micah2> you should try the mustache!
[18:49] <pulu_> yes guitar
[18:50] <pinguy> QUESTION: My bad lol. Do you have anyone working on Modems for Ubuntu Touch. Each network work on their own. But the 3 network uses an odd bandwidth.
[18:51] <Anil> Is python still preferred language for development on Ubuntu, like stated in that tutorial about quickly (which I can't find anymore)?
[18:51] <pulu_> QUESTION: is there some reasoning behind the fact that there is so little customisation offered on unity? Why stuff on unity tweak-tool are not included default?
[18:51] <Will87> QUESTION: Is python still preferred language for development on Ubuntu, like stated in that tutorial about quickly (which I can't find anymore)?
[18:52] <FlyingPig> QUESTION: Have you ever used MacOS X?
[18:52] <sebsebseb> Will87: Python is the prefered sure
[18:52] <sebsebseb> FlyingPig: of course he has
[18:52] <sebsebseb> FlyingPig: oh thought you put heard, but he's probably used it before
[18:52] <pinguy> QUESTION: Request, Hotel California
[18:52] <mhall119> Anil: C++ or QML are the prefered languages for writing apps
[18:53] <bvincent> can apt-get be used for more then installing stuff
[18:53] <mhall119> C is the prefered language for writing scopes
[18:53] <mhall119> bvincent: it can be used for removing stuff too :)
[18:53] <bvincent> oh
[18:53] <naum> QUESTION: whose idea was ubuntuonair? Why? Are the other canonical developers happy about answering questions from the crowd that much in the open?
[18:54] <mhall119> naum: there is now a weekly on-air with Canonical engineers to answer questions about what they're working on
[18:54] <Anil> OK now I'm confused :) Which one is the way to go? Python / C / C++ / QML
[18:55] <FlyingPig> QUESTION: Will there ever be a double flavor of your Q&A again?
[18:55] <bvincent> can you make a new type of login screen for ubuntu
[18:56] <Anil> so QML...
[18:56] <Will87> yup
[18:56] <ubuntourist> Anil & Will87: Consider looking at the tutorials at http://developer.ubuntu.com/
[18:56] <pinguy> Jono had the same problem with my family with Gnome 2.3. They kept deleting icons for the top bar including the Menu icon
[18:57] <mhall119> Anil: if you want to write apps for the desktop *and* phone, go with QML
[18:57] <pinguy> they are shy :)
[18:58] <Will87> QUESTION: Unity 8: What is the factor that decides if its tablet/desktop view? Screen resolution? Hardware?
[18:58] <bvincent> can you make a login screen
[18:59] <pinguy> QUESTION: ever thought about making the Q&A open on G+ hangout?
[18:59] <naum> QUESTION: any ideas on how to make ubuntuonair more interesting to news reporters?
[18:59] <number22> QUESTION: whats on lunch
[18:59] <pinguy> So anyone can join
[18:59] <naum> yeah, what's for lunch
[18:59] <bvincent> can you make a login screen with a sdk
[19:00] <pinguy> yes that what I meant
[19:00] <Will87> QUESTION: Unity 8 What happens with high res tablets? for example: 2560*1600 vs desktop 1920*1080
[19:01] <naum> bon appetit
[19:01] <jdrab> Will87: yes
[19:01] <bvincent> thank you
[19:01] <pinguy> oh wow. 2hr went quick
[19:01] <jdrab> Will87: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9AzRxsnfTE
[19:02] <pinguy> *oh wow. 2hr went quickly
[19:02] <mhall119> Will87: Unity 8 uses resolution independent "grid units" for sizes, so on high-pixel-density screens it will use more pixels-per-gridunit
[19:02] <mhall119> so it will be the same physical size
[19:02] <Will87> thanks
[19:07] <Yuki> hello
[19:08] <pinguy> Thanks jono for the QA. Nice to know you are still involved with the community
[19:08] <sebsebseb> pinguy: of course he is, it's his job
[19:09] <pinguy> sebsebseb, lol, true
[19:10] <jono> thanks!
[19:11] <pinguy> sebsebseb,  Well at least it gave me the option to talk about Sony being involved with Open Source and that they need to look into AMR-WB
[19:12] <pinguy> Something Canonical need to look into but hard to talk to them about
[19:12] <pinguy> Doing this Q&A I am hoping jono go's away and looks into it
[19:14] <pinguy> jono, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adaptive_Multi-Rate_Wideband
[19:15] <pinguy> http://www.xperiablog.net/2013/05/09/sony-working-on-premium-firefox-os-handset/
[19:15] <pinguy> Better link for sony: http://developer.sonymobile.com/2013/02/27/experimental-firefox-os-software-for-xperia-e-available-for-developers-rom/
[19:16] <sebsebseb> pinguy: I think Sony generaly don't care much about  Linux etc
[19:16] <pinguy> sebsebseb, you are joking right?
[19:16] <sebsebseb> pinguy: I mean take the PS3  and the Linux option being removed thing for example
[19:16] <pinguy> sebsebseb, that was because you could hack the PS3 using the Other OS option
[19:16] <pinguy> Thats why it was removed
[19:16] <sebsebseb> I think Sony aren't that popular in the phone market to,  and so yes may support things like FIrefox OS  and even Ubuntu Phone for that matter, whatever it takes for them to become a bit bigger of a name basicaly
[19:17] <sebsebseb> pinguy: plus the FSF has boycott Sony stickers and what not even, becasue of  certian  bad stuff they have done in the past, the rootkit thing etc
[19:18] <sebsebseb> plus why are theo Sony Vaio's so expensive? they aren't that great really,  in fact I broke on years ago
[19:18] <pinguy> sebsebseb, I do some work on XDA, not much but some. Sony are by far the most open company I have dealt with. They released the kernel sources for the Sony Z before the phone was even released
[19:19] <sebsebseb> maybe so, but  Intel are open to with drivers for that.  also Sony is a OEM as well, but where are those  pre installed  Desktop LInux systems for example, right there aren't any as far as I know
[19:20] <ichhabegrosseeie> yo
[19:20] <sebsebseb> pinguy: to be honest I don't think many of these companies care much about  free software, as in from a moral software advantages point of view,  it's just open source for them really, a good developmetn model possbily  that can make them more money
[19:20] <sebsebseb> ichhabegrosseeie: hi
[19:21] <ichhabegrosseeie> well, I'm out
[19:21] <ichhabegrosseeie> good bye
[19:22] <pinguy> Sony are one of the few people that let you unlock your phone with the imei
[19:22] <pinguy> They have a page setup on their site
[19:23] <sebsebseb> pinguy: companies arne't people, they are however groups of people
[19:23] <pinguy> sebsebseb, I know. But you get what I mean
[19:23] <sebsebseb> altough someone did say to me the other day that apparnatly in USA,  comapnies are known as people now or whatever he was saying hmm
[19:25] <sebsebseb> pinguy: Sony  have done some quite bad things in the past the rootkit thing etc.   Sony like most companies lock people into their products or try to.  the  Blueray players, the PS3  etc etc.  at the end of the day companies like that don't really care that much about our freedoms if at all really, they just care about making more money etc
[19:25] <pinguy> sebsebseb, Network providers force Sony to lock the bootloader. But they have a page on their site on how to unlock it: http://unlockbootloader.sonymobile.com/instructions
[19:25] <sebsebseb> also mobile phones are quite propritary/commerical not that open really etc in general
[19:25] <sebsebseb> and that's why I hope Firefox OS and   Ubuntu Phone will succede
[19:26] <pinguy> sebsebseb, you do know that network providers will tell Firefox OS and Ubuntu Touch that they will need away to lock the bootloader?
[19:27] <sebsebseb> there will be certaine requirements sure, since how that market is like
[19:27] <pinguy> Sony, Android etc. want to be open, but network providers tell them if they don't lock down the hardware and OS they they won't sell the phones
[19:28] <pinguy> It's sad, but it is how it is
[19:28] <sebsebseb> well that's the kind of stuff that happens when money sucking companies are in charge of things!
[19:28] <pinguy> It's why Sony have made it as simple as possible to be able to unlock their phones.
[19:28] <sebsebseb> pinguy: it's the kind of reason why Richard Stallman will refues to use a phone :d
[19:29] <sebsebseb> or his own anyway
[19:29] <pinguy> Samsung are the same
[19:29] <sebsebseb> pinguy: it's sad that phones are nothing, but products really
[19:29] <sebsebseb> there isn't really a phone project if you get what I mean
[19:29] <sebsebseb> a project and a product being differnet
[19:29] <sebsebseb> in this context
[19:29] <pinguy> All Samsung hardware is open. The kernel is fully open-sourced
[19:30] <pinguy> It's the network providers that lock down the phone
[19:34] <pinguy> I have been involved in mobile phone for the last 6 months or so. I do believe desktop PC will die out and will only be used to develop programs on.
[19:34] <sebsebseb> pinguy: I think lap tops and desktop pc's are here to stay for man years to come
[19:34] <pinguy> Because of this I am doing a lot of work with Android. But I am hoping Ubuntu Touch does well so I can start work on that
[19:35] <sebsebseb> ,but yes tablets and phones are starting to become more popular realy
[19:36] <pinguy> At the moment I honestly believe Ubuntu Touch won't do all that well. There is somethings I like about it, but overall it has nothing on Android at the moment. But it is a VERY early OS.
[19:38] <pinguy> One thing I love about Ubuntu Touch is the light client feature. Where you can plug the phone into a TV or monitor and have a Full OS
[19:38] <pinguy> At the moment that isn't part of Ubuntu Touch. But when it is, it will be a killer feature
[19:38] <pinguy> I bought the Atrix HD just because I could run a full OS off of my phone
[19:39] <pinguy> they where way ahead for the times
[19:39] <pinguy> It was called Wedtop
[19:39] <pinguy> *webtop
[19:39] <pinguy> Here is a video showing it off https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWORT8-jyoo
[19:43] <pinguy> In that video. everything that is being shown is from a phone that was released February 22, 2011
[19:43] <pinguy> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_Atrix_4G
[19:44] <pinguy> Webtop was ground breaking at the time. I don't think people really understood how ground breaking it was at the time
[19:46] <pinguy> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_Atrix_4G#Webtop
[19:51] <pinguy> It was a shame. I wanted to work on Webtop. The code is open-sourced ( http://sourceforge.net/motorola/motorola-webtop/home/Home/ ) but the kernel to get it working wasn't. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1919735
[19:52] <pinguy> on XDA I am pinguy1982
[19:53] <pinguy> http://supportmymoto.com/
[21:31] <wamari> yeaaaaaaah!!!!
[21:33] <wamari> when do you expect ubuntu phone to be released?
[21:35] <wamari> QUESTION: when do you expect ubuntu phone to be released, what specifications be reuqired to run it?
[21:42] <Guest82339> how to develop any application thats works on desktop and even in mobile
[21:42] <Guest82339> ?