[02:21] <Celettu> merriam great! I've googled around but there isn't that much on Ubuntu yet, and no forums, and I know NOTHING about Gnome, and it's not MS, and I'm still getting rid of Windows-thinking
[02:21] <topyli> Treenaks: yes
[02:22] <elFarto> 1) while it was updating all the packages wvdail came up and asked me if i wanted to auto configure it, problem was my usb keyboard wasn't working, i had to plug it into my ps/2 port to be able to press n
[02:22] <Celettu> merriam yeah, I looked. That helped installing nvidia-drivers and such, but there are some other things and I don't know if they're bugs, or simply gnome, or simply ubuntu, or something else
[02:22] <topyli> Celettu: come on, ask already :)
[02:23] <Celettu> like, for example, can the gnome panel be configured to show minimised apps of all virtual desktops, and not just the wone you're working in?
[02:23] <Celettu> sorry :P
[02:23] <Treenaks> Celettu: yes
[02:23] <Celettu> great!
[02:23] <Celettu> ...
[02:23] <Celettu> how? :P
[02:23] <Treenaks> Celettu: right-click the "handle" next to the "Computer" menu, select Preferences
[02:23] <Treenaks> (or Properties, don't know)
[02:23] <merriam> elFarto: debian culture is somewhat blind to dial-up.  i suppose ubuntu is similar
[02:24] <Celettu> yeah, tried that, but I can only choose the name, orientation, size...and things like background colour
[02:24] <elFarto> and 2) it incorrectly detected my nvidia graphics card as an SiS, it picked up "Silicon Integrated Systems (SiS) Virtual PCI-to-PCI bridge (AGP)" as my graphics card
[02:24] <Treenaks> Celettu: you should right-click on the "handle" thing next to the program names
[02:24] <elFarto> merriam, that wasn't the problem, the problem was my usb keyboard wasn't setup correctly
[02:24] <merriam> elFarto: but i found my usb keyboard worked.  it may depend on setting "usb for dos" in the bios
[02:25] <Treenaks> Celettu: not on the empty part of the panel
[02:25] <elFarto> merriam, well on my other linux partition, my usb keyboard works just fine
[02:25] <Celettu> ah...ha...
[02:25] <Celettu> AH!
[02:26] <wongy> exit
[02:26] <Treenaks> Celettu: it works? :)
[02:26] <Celettu> whew, that was hard to find
[02:26] <Celettu> Treenaks yep. I rightclicked on the panel, not on the handle, since it's only one mm across...totally misse dit
[02:26] <merriam> elFarto: and it works fine on ubuntu now?
[02:27] <elFarto> hang on, i'm just playing
[02:28] <elFarto> yep, it's working fine now
[02:28] <elFarto> just not during the package update
[02:29] <Celettu> This is nice. Another thing...in Gaim it's possible to have the minimised windows flash when you receive a message...for some reason this doesn't work.
[02:29] <merriam> elFarto: so, as i said, that may depend on setting "usb for dos".  can you confirm that?
[02:29] <elFarto> Celettu, it is, but the gnome task list display...thingy doesn't support it afaik
[02:29] <Treenaks> Celettu: maybe there's a gaim plugin for that, or something in "window settings"?
[02:29] <elFarto> merriam, you want me to check that in the bios?
[02:30] <Celettu> Farto I thought about that, but it's a bit odd since gaim is built for Gnome. And it works great in KDE
[02:30] <Celettu> Treenaks it's a plugin, but it doesn't work. Neither does the "History" plugin for that matter...
[02:30] <elFarto> i think it works (the flashing thing) under sawfish
[02:30] <merriam> elFarto: yes.  it may be worth reporting
[02:30] <elFarto> or whatever it's called
[02:31] <elFarto> k, brb
[02:31] <pere> Im having trouble setting up network printing (through a SMC Barricade) under Ubuntu.
[02:32] <topyli> Celettu: what i do is have the window pop up when someone sends you a message
[02:32] <pere> Ive set Host to routers IP, and queue to lp. Is that correct, or could it be something else
[02:32] <topyli> well, to me, not you :)
[02:32] <Treenaks> topyli: I do that too, but it's hell with metacity's focus problems in sloppy focus mode
[02:33] <topyli> hm, probablyl
[02:33] <topyli> bly
[02:33] <Celettu> top yeah, but that gets annoying REALLY fast :P
[02:33] <Celettu> suppose you're getting all cozy with someone in private and suddenly your mother pops up
[02:33] <topyli> Celettu: maybe, if you get lots of traffic
[02:33] <Treenaks> Celettu: you can make the status icon blink.. that works
[02:33] <Treenaks> like the old ICQ did :)
[02:34] <Celettu> Tree that could work. I'll try that :)
[02:34] <Celettu> okay, next :P Nautilus is also an ftp client, but it doesn't ask for passwords
[02:35] <Celettu> so if I want to conect to an ftp server which needs a login and apass, it just tells me I'm not authorised
[02:36] <elFarto> well, helpfully enough, my "USB Legacy Function" was set to auo
[02:36] <elFarto> er
[02:36] <elFarto> auto
[02:36] <pere> The Queue name under network printer settings is strange. It shows just asterix (at the moment two). If I try to change it to "lp1", close and come back. It is still just two stars there. Anyone else having problems setting ut a printer?
[02:36] <Treenaks> elFarto: auto = on if USB keyboard attached
[02:36] <elFarto> ok, so it was on then
[02:37] <topyli> Celettu: weird. it does offer to connect to "public ftp" or "ftp with login"
[02:37] <merriam> elFarto: this is odd.  weren't you using the usb keyboard before it asked about wvdial?
[02:38] <elFarto> well, that when it asked about wvdail that was the first place it didn't work
[02:38] <elFarto> booting off the cd it worked fine, and it worked all the way upto that point
[02:38] <elFarto> i mean, i had to hit enter to tell it to go update the packages
[02:38] <Celettu> top my bad. It does :P So what about password protected samba shares? :)
[02:39] <elFarto> so, very odd indeed
[02:39] <merriam> elFarto: and "usb legacy function" is the only usb setting?
[02:39] <elFarto> yep
[02:39] <topyli> Celettu: this i don't know. i guess you need to have the same username and password on the server... that's the easy way to connect to my samba shares from a windows box anyway...
[02:39] <mjr> hmm, anyone happen to know if nforce3 chipset's audio is properly supported in linux? (Considering getting a silent amd64 box and shuttle seems to offer that)
[02:40] <merriam> could it be a motherboard quirk triggered by probing?
[02:41] <topyli> Celettu: hm. just found a windows box on this here network. it simply asks for a password (which i don't have of course :)
[02:42] <Celettu> top: here it doesn't..."you're not authorised" :)
[02:42] <elFarto> not sure, because i plugged the keyboard back into the usb it worked
[02:42] <elFarto> without rebooting
[02:42] <Treenaks> Celettu: did you give it a password before, and told gnome to remember it?
[02:43] <maswan> Mithrandir: "now booting kernel" and then nothing more. Time for a second try then. :/
[02:43] <Celettu> Tree: nope, never asked me anything...
[02:43] <`anthony> Hey - fairly fundamental problem here. Installing onto a Dell dimension PC here, and the installer can't deal with the CDROM - fails to mount it. attempting to mount it manually whirs for a while then gives "invalid argument". Mounting on another box works, tho.
[02:43] <Mithrandir> maswan: yeah, guess so..
[02:44] <topyli> Celettu: the box i found wasn't a windows box after all :)
[02:44] <`anthony> I had a similar problem trying to install knoppix, so I'm wondering if there's something just not right with the CDROM drive... although installing FC or Debian stable works fine.
[02:44] <merriam> mjr:  there are mentions of nforce.  http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/HardwareSupport
[02:44] <mjr> merriam, thank you
[02:44] <Celettu> top ;) It does the same thing with my own windows partitions
[02:45] <topyli> Celettu: well those you can just mount after you give some love to /etc/fstab
[02:46] <Celettu> oh mounting them isn't a prob, but the dir where I mount them changes to read only
[02:46] <pitti> sabdfl: hal of the day is coming :-)
[02:46] <topyli> Celettu: are they ntfs? there's no ntfs write support in linux
[02:47] <Celettu> yeah. They are...but I shoudl be able to read them :)
[02:47] <ElBast> why is gcc not installed as default?
[02:48] <topyli> yes. so your fstab needs some lovin'
[02:48] <Celettu> true
[02:48] <merriam> Celettu: "read only", you said...
[02:48] <Celettu> I forgot that I had to change this in suse too
[02:48] <Kamion> ElBast: we debated it before the preview release and decided against it, since desktop users shouldn't require it; it's on the CD for those who need it
[02:49] <ElBast> kamion: which one do you recommend to install? i've seen 3.3 and 3.4 in synaptic
[02:49] <Kamion> 3.3
[02:49] <merriam> elFarto: that's my only guess -- it didn't like the hardware probing.  maybe the usb connection recovers after a while
[02:49] <Kamion> for the moment
[02:49] <ElBast> kamion: sweet, thanks
[02:50] <Celettu> actually, how do you manually mount a drive so that it becomes readable for normal users?
[02:50] <visik7> if u want a write support for ntfs try this http://www.jankratochvil.net/project/captive/
[02:51] <elFarto> merriam, ok
[02:51] <topyli> visik7: isn't that still a bit dangerous?
[02:51] <elFarto> well, it all works now
[02:52] <topyli> Celettu: can't remember. dive in to the mount man page
[02:53] <Celettu> that's comforting :P
[02:53] <visik7> topyli I try it with an intensive write on a ntfs partition and I don't encounter any demage
[02:54] <topyli> visik7: good news (for your filesystem and for all of us :)
[02:54] <merriam> Celettu: it's readable anyway.  do you mean writable?
[02:54] <Celettu> readable for users
[02:54] <Celettu> it gets mounted readable only for root
[02:54] <elFarto> quick question, how can i install the kernel source?
[02:55] <topyli> Celettu: if fstab has the 'users' option, it's readable to whomever mounts it, iirc
[02:55] <elFarto> no matter, found it
[02:55] <Kamion> elFarto: note that if you're only trying to compile a third-party driver, linux-headers-<IP_ADDRESS>-3 should be enough
[02:55] <Kamion> elFarto: otherwise, linux-source-<IP_ADDRESS>
[02:56] <Kamion> Celettu: use the umask option
[02:56] <elFarto> ok, cheers
[02:56] <visik7> topyli this doesn't mean that it works perfectly
[02:56] <cybernout> got some extra sources in synaptic, and can install the universe now..:P
[02:56] <topyli> yes! umask 0 0 0
[02:57] <tseng> anyone getting:
[02:57] <tseng> bash: /home/brandon/bin/firefox-tabs: /bin/bash: bad interpreter: Permission denied
[02:57] <Celettu> Kamion/top thanks :)
[02:58] <Kamion> tseng: chmod +x /home/brandon/bin/firefox-tabs
[02:58] <jono> hi all
[02:58] <topyli> visik7: personally i don't care, but there are people with windows still around :)
[02:58] <tseng> Kamion: all my bin/ is +x
[02:58] <elFarto> er...it says "linux-kernel-headers, installed version 2.5.999-test7-bk-16", when it says i have <IP_ADDRESS> kernel installed
[02:58] <Kamion> tseng: either that or the filesystem's mounted noexec
[02:58] <elFarto> am i missing something?
[02:58] <tseng> Kamion: hm its on nfs, but it worked yesterday
[02:58] <Kamion> elFarto: not linux-kernel-headers, linux-headers-<IP_ADDRESS>-3
[02:59] <elFarto> oh
[02:59] <Kamion> elFarto: linux-kernel-headers is there for internal use by glibc only
[02:59] <visik7> topyli personally I use windows :)
[02:59] <Kamion> (it should really be glibc-kernel-headers)
[02:59] <elFarto> right, got it
[02:59] <visik7> is 2.4 kernel usable on ubuntu ?
[02:59] <topyli> visik7: sorry about that. i hope all goes well =)
[02:59] <visik7> topyli :)
[03:00] <Kamion> visik7: you may be able to install it from universe and use it, and we've tried not to break it gratuitously, but I don't think it's been tested much
[03:00] <tseng> Kamion: noexec snuck in there somehow.. thanks
[03:00] <topyli> seems like i'm not very productive. might as well go home
[03:01] <Kamion> tseng: I tend to avoid noexec everywhere, since it doesn't really offer any benefit
[03:01] <Kamion> you can always do '/lib/ld.so.1 <binary>' or whatever to bypass it trivially
[03:02] <visik7> Kamion but the various scripts in ubuntu use sysfs
[03:02] <visik7> =
[03:02] <visik7> ?
[03:04] <Kamion> visik7: new desktop features may indeed not work
[03:05] <visik7> :(
[03:05] <Kamion> visik7: which is why 2.6 is the only actively supported kernel
[03:05] <Kamion> why do you want 2.4?
[03:05] <visik7> 'couse acpi in 2.6 is quite crappy (at least for my asus laptop)
[03:05] <Treenaks> visik7: acpi in 2.4 is the same..
[03:06] <visik7> with 2.4 everythings goes ok
[03:06] <Zomb> visik7: then you are one of the few people where it is the case
[03:06] <Zomb> I need 2.6 for proper ACPI, for example
[03:07] <Zomb> Kamion: but do you provide a suspend script for acpid, to stop/restart hotplug, save mixer settings etc.?
[03:07] <visik7> Zomb maybe it's better if I submit a bug report
[03:07] <Zomb> yeah. In Debian.
[03:08] <Kamion> Zomb: I wouldn't know
[03:08] <Zomb> I will report it. IIRC I told Md but the problem has been forgotten.
[03:10] <Celettu> ah!
[03:10] <Celettu> hotplug
[03:10] <Celettu> another thing that doesn't work when I shove my USB stick in :P
[03:10] <azeem> Celettu: is hald running?
[03:11] <Zomb> there should be some kind of autofs-reconfigure-by-uuid-for-new-devices script for hotplug
[03:11] <occy> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2059    added an additional comment.
[03:11] <`anthony> Hm. Got it booting by going into expert mode and unselecting everything but the most generic sounding drivers. How odd.
[03:12] <occy> just posted the bug about my installl issues.
[03:13] <Celettu> azeemazeem yes :)
[03:13] <tortoise__> hello, how stable is the HAL thing on Ubuntu?
[03:14] <Celettu> azeem mounting it manually works great, but I have to mount /dev/sda, not /dev/sda1
[03:14] <dark_star> anyone know why i get to the ACPI: Subsystem revision 20040326 and it stops?
[03:14] <Kamion> dark_star: you might have one of the broken systems that needs to be booted with acpi=off
[03:15] <dark_star> i tried pci=noacpi...is that incorrect?
[03:15] <Kamion> that depends on the hardware
[03:15] <dark_star> i'll try acpi=off and see if that works
[03:16] <dark_star> should I get a different build?
[03:16] <dark_star> Kamion...you're a genius! That did the trick! Thanks!
[03:16] <Kamion> dark_star: which one do you have at the moment
[03:17] <Kamion> dark_star: cool; I have a laptop which needs the same thing
[03:18] <dark_star> I have the warty build that was listed on Distrowatch last week
[03:19] <merriam> will it8212 ide controllers be supported soon?  is there a better place to find out?
[03:22] <ElBast> hey, does anyone here have a dvb card they've got working under ubuntu?
[03:22] <Kamion> dark_star: hard to tell, but that might have been the preview release; there are newer versions linked from our web site
[03:22] <_mikal> ElBast, not ubuntu, but debian
[03:22] <occy> anyone here seen this upon installing (on VT F4):      Warning: **: bad d-i Packages file   grep:  /cdrom/dists/stable/Release     : Not a directory.      This repeats in a loop.
[03:23] <ElBast> mikal: what sort? it's been a while since i set mine up, and that was on fedora...
[03:23] <Treenaks> _mikal: -S or -C or -T ?
[03:23] <_mikal> -C
[03:23] <occy> I've used this CD to install without problems on my desktop, but this happens on my laptop.
[03:23] <Treenaks> _mikal: because I have an external USB -T device, but I can't get decryption to work (only one working TV station now :( )
[03:23] <_mikal> ElBast, dvb-c with CA slot and mpeg2 decoder and the works, hauppauge
[03:24] <ElBast> is there a better way to set up the /dev/dvb devices than downloading the cvs drivers and running the makedev script in there?
[03:24] <dark_star> Kamion...I'll try to get a newer one
[03:24] <_mikal> Treenaks, I haven't gotten it to work, they changed the encryption the day I bought it and I don't indend to pay for the channels
[03:25] <ElBast> okay, i've got a budget technotrend dvb-t... and i've just found out my the firmware i'm using in windows isn't supported by the current dvb kernel drivers
[03:25] <_mikal> ElBast, I seem to remeber that there was a script I used to create them with
[03:26] <ElBast> mikal: would that be the one that comes with the linuxtv drivers?
[03:26] <_mikal> ElBast, isnt the firmware loaded into the cards in some way by the driver? I seem to remeber reading something about it
[03:26] <Treenaks> the drivers should be updated so udev can create the devices
[03:27] <_mikal> ElBast, I think so, it was about 6 months since I last played with it
[03:27] <ElBast> mikal: yeah, the firmware is distributed in the windows drivers package, you have to copy it into a local directory so it's loaded when the kernel module is loaded
[03:27] <_mikal> I just recently read that cardsharing works now so I might get som use of it after all
[03:27] <_mikal> ElBast, ok
[03:27] <Treenaks> _mikal: cardsharing?
[03:28] <ElBast> treenaks: is there any way i can find out whether the current drivers support udev?
[03:28] <Treenaks> ElBast: I don't know
[03:28] <ElBast> hmmm... i guess i'll put that on my "must find out" list...
[03:29] <_mikal> Treenaks, one person buys all the channels and plugs in into a linuxcomputer with softcamd and other people can ask the same card about keys
[03:29] <_mikal> err, newcamd
[03:29] <Treenaks> _mikal: nice :)
[03:30] <_mikal> Treenaks, that is thw only way besides paying ~$100 a month to get the channels in god quality
[03:31] <_mikal> ..good..
[03:31] <Treenaks> _mikal: I pay EUR 8/month for 29 channels, but only one is unscrambled..
[03:31] <_mikal> Crappy swedish provider that changes encryption.. :)
[03:31] <TdC_VgA> Can it be passed over TCP/IP?
[03:31] <Treenaks> _mikal: but I have an USB dump from the windows-program setting up encryption
[03:32] <Treenaks> _mikal: so it might be possible to reverse-engineer it
[03:32] <_mikal> TdC_VgA, tcp od udp I don't know, but over the internet anyway
[03:32] <TdC_VgA> nice nice.. coop tv sharing.. hot
[03:32] <ElBast> hmmm... i don't suppose anyone knows why Gmail isn't working for me in firefox? it works in firefox on windows, but not in ubuntu...?
[03:32] <Treenaks> TdC_VgA: you can stream DVB TV streams over the internet (UDP, multicast)
[03:32] <TdC_VgA> _mikal: what network is this thing for?
[03:32] <Treenaks> TdC_VgA: but _mikal is talking about sharing the encryption keys, not the rest..
[03:33] <Treenaks> (i.e. the entire TV stream)
[03:33] <TdC_VgA> Treenaks: so was i
[03:33] <darkersatanic> Treenaks: I do that on my home network from a DVB-T card.
[03:33] <Treenaks> darkersatanic: that's cool.. but it's boring to watch only once channel
[03:33] <TdC_VgA> alright i gotta go run some errands yada yada.. flying to chicago wednesday
[03:33] <_mikal> TdC_VgA, for the ecryptionschemes that newcamd supports.. conax, viaccess and some others
[03:34] <TdC_VgA> peace guys.. hope the broadcom stuff gets integrated into the kernel if its possible, cause i sure fubar;d my install hehe
[03:34] <darkersatanic> Treenaks: I'm working on it. :)
[03:35] <_mikal> Treenaks, does the usb reciever have a card slot or are you trying with a softcam?
[03:35] <spiv> Hmm, a recent upgrade seems to have broken rhythmbox (because esd is now running)
[03:35] <Treenaks> _mikal: it has a card slot
[03:35] <_mikal> dark_star, I think vlc has remote channel changing
[03:36] <_mikal> sorry, that was to darkersatanic ...
[03:36] <darkersatanic> _mikal: I'm just playing with it really. I mostly use it for time-shifting.
[03:36] <Treenaks> darkersatanic: working on it?
[03:36] <ElBast> darkersatanic: what software are you using?
[03:37] <darkersatanic> Treenaks: I'm reinventing wheels for the hell of it.
[03:37] <_mikal> Treenaks, ok, if it won't work to get it to read the card maybe you could try with a softcam and a seperate card reader
[03:37] <darkersatanic> ElBast: dvb-tools stuff, mostly. See http://www.carfax.org.uk/docs/DVB
[03:37] <Treenaks> darkersatanic: ah ok
[03:38] <Treenaks> _mikal: no, the usb thing won't send out data if the station is encrypted I think
[03:38] <Treenaks> _mikal: and, "conax for dvb-t" is a bit different that "conax for dvb-s"
[03:38] <Treenaks> than
[03:38] <_mikal> Treenaks, ahh, of course
[03:39] <Treenaks> _mikal: so I guess I need someone who can read/understand USB packet dumps
[03:39] <Treenaks> _mikal: I have one..
[03:39] <ElBast> darkersatanic: what sort of card is it, budget or full featured?
[03:40] <darkersatanic> Budget. Hauppauge NOVA-T
[03:40] <Treenaks> I have a DEC-2540-T
[03:40] <Treenaks> from Hauppauge as well
[03:40] <_mikal> Treenaks, mm, and some spare time :)
[03:40] <Treenaks> _mikal: yes, most likely
[03:41] <ElBast> darker: cool, same as me... how did you set up the /dev nodes? i've always used the script that comes with the linuxtv cvs drivers, but i've been wondering if there's a better way...
[03:41] <darkersatanic> I've been using devfs, and more recently udev.
[03:41] <Treenaks> _mikal: Hauppauge themselves told me, when I asked for the USB wire protocol that they couldn't tell me because the CONAX stuff is protected by an NDA
[03:42] <Treenaks> _mikal: which is weird, because it looks like it's nothing more than "turn on conax" and "turn off conax" messages
[03:42] <_mikal> Treenaks, sounds a bit strange, the commands should be on a higher level..
[03:42] <ElBast> darker: so they're created automatically in udev?
[03:42] <_mikal> Treenaks, yes
[03:42] <darkersatanic> ElBast: Umm. I think so. I'm not 100% certain that I've got udev working properly on that machine. :)
[03:42] <spiv> A recent upgrade has broken my rhythmbox, because esd is now running...
[03:42] <darkersatanic> ElBast: devfs certainly worked.
[03:42] <Treenaks> _mikal: do you have any idea where I could post this question? I've asked the DEC-driver maintainer, but he's too busy
[03:43] <ElBast> darker: well, i'm about to find out... :)
[03:43] <darkersatanic> ElBast: Good luck. :)
[03:44] <_mikal> Treenaks, No, I don't think so. Some guy at linuxtv would be mu best guess
[03:45] <ElBast> crap
[03:45] <ElBast> unsupported firmware....
[03:45] <Treenaks> I'll ask on #dvb first..
[03:46] <ElBast> oh well, guess i'll try it out later. night all, thanks for all your help!
[03:46] <Treenaks> _mikal: One day... :)
[03:47] <_mikal> Treenaks, I know the feeling, I have an analog tuner card that is not supported yet...
[03:48] <Treenaks> _mikal: oh well, maybe I'll just have to bite the bullet and dive into the protocol entrails
[03:48] <_mikal> Treenaks, by the time it is supported we probably have switched to digital in sweden.. 2006
[03:48] <Treenaks> _mikal: and make a nice document describing the protocol
[03:49] <_mikal> Treenaks, There are probably some tools to parse away the usb stuff thats not interesting
[03:49] <Treenaks> _mikal: I can recognise commands (0xaa 0x55) to the device.. and replies (after reading the driver..)
[03:49] <Treenaks> but "CONAX" packets are different
[03:50] <_mikal> Treenaks, what do they look like?
[03:53] <ForsaKen`> i downloaded a source file, i need to compile it, but i got alot of things missing, i remember that there was a command, that apt-get will find what does the source file need for compiling, and installs the things
[03:53] <Treenaks> _mikal: 0xaa 0x0f I think
[03:54] <Treenaks> The Conax packets appear to start
[03:54] <Treenaks> 0xAAAAAA0043
[03:54] <nonroot> Hi all. Could someone else please check the date/time of the last message on http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2004-October/thread.html - I think it's stopped :-(
[03:56] <_mikal> ok, I don't have a clue, bit I have a friend that made his own USB->IDE interface I could ask
[03:57] <Kamion> ForsaKen`: apt-get build-dep <package>
[03:57] <Treenaks> _mikal: I have the dump available if you want..
[03:57] <_mikal> yes, I'm not working anyway
[03:57] <ForsaKen`> thanks
[03:57] <_mikal> how big is it?
[03:57] <_mikal> Treenaks, could you mail it?
[03:59] <ForsaKen`> E: Unable to find a source package for xqf-1.0
[03:59] <Treenaks> _mikal: private message :)
[04:00] <Kamion> ForsaKen`: just the package name, not package-version
[04:00] <sabdfl> pitti: whoop! was getting withdrawal symptoms :-)
[04:00] <ForsaKen`> oh thanks
[04:00] <ForsaKen`> working :D
[04:01] <pitti> sabdfl: but don't eat it up completely, it fixes three bugs and has to last for a few days :-)
[04:01] <sabdfl> ok
[04:02] <Mithrandir> nonroot: proxied to listmaster, thanks for spotting
[04:11] <visik7> how can avoid make menuconfig to read my current kernel config ?
[04:23] <visik7> why ubuntu kernel-image-<IP_ADDRESS> has all drivers enabled ?
[04:23] <visik7> it's long to disable all the unwanted drivers
[04:25] <dark_star> is there a keyin at boot time to enable my touchpad?
[04:26] <Kamion> visik7: they're enabled as modules, you can ignore them
[04:26] <visik7> Kamion, yes but they are compiled anyway
[04:26] <Kamion> visik7: most distributions do it like that, because otherwise there's no way to make the default work for everyone.
[04:26] <Kamion> visik7: yep
[04:27] <Kamion> visik7: we'd rather attempt to produce a kernel that normal users don't have to recompile
[04:27] <dies_irae> Hi, I just installed Ubuntu and think it's great! I'm dual booting though, and I'd like to access my mp3s on my win xp ntfs drive. I can mount the drive, but how can I set the permissions so that I can read it? Every time I chmod or even chown it says that it's a read-only filesystem and won't make the changes. I even tried adding it to my fstab with "user" option.
[04:28] <darkersatanic> dies_irae: You will probably need the "uid=", "gid=" and "umask" options to mount.
[04:28] <Kamion> dies_irae: you'll need to use the 'umask' option; umask=022 I'd expect.
[04:28] <visik7> Kamion, I erroneus say kernel-image-<IP_ADDRESS> but I want to say linux-source-<IP_ADDRESS>
[04:28] <Kamion> shouldn't need uid and gid
[04:28] <Kamion> visik7: yeah, I know
[04:28] <opi^work> umask is enuff
[04:28] <opi^work> you can even pass uname=000 ;)
[04:28] <opi^work> umask
[04:28] <opi^work> d'oh ;}
[04:29] <dies_irae> So, just umask=022? Sorry, I'm new to this.
[04:29] <visik7> Kamion, ok nevermind is the make menuconfig that read /boot/config-<IP_ADDRESS>-2-386 and configure menuconfig like it
[04:29] <visik7> so all drivers are enabled
[04:30] <Kamion> visik7: I'm sorry, I can't understand that sentence
[04:30] <darkersatanic> dies_irae: Add to the list of options in fstab, comma-separated.
[04:30] <visik7> when I run make menuconfig I found all drivers enabled like a standard kernel
[04:32] <dies_irae> Yeah, I put umask=22, comma seperated, and while it mounts with r-x for group and user I still don't have access.  Thanks for your help, guys.
[04:35] <opi^work> ;)
[04:35] <dieman> opi^work: eh?
[04:35] <dieman> you must be using bitchx :)
[04:35] <opi^work> dieman: sorry, tab comp. throw your nick instead of dies_irae
[04:35] <dieman> ahh
[04:35] <dieman> ok
[04:35] <opi^work> dieman: Xchat ;P
[04:36] <dieman> with bitchx if you do ie: it nick completes my name
[04:36] <dieman> panasync needs to learn how to ode :)
[04:36] <dieman> code, rather
[04:42] <tortoise__> when warty comes out on the 20th can I update to it using synaptic or must i install from cd again?
[04:42] <Treenaks> you can update
[04:44] <dark_star> my synaptic is not working at all...I'm new with Ubuntu so I probably misssed something...anyone have any ideas? I've gotten real used to tapping
[04:45] <Treenaks> dark_star: what doesn't work about it?
[04:45] <dark_star> Treenaks...the taps or the scroll
[04:45] <Treenaks> dark_star: taps??
[04:46] <dark_star> Treenaks...the tapping on the touchpad
[04:46] <Treenaks> dark_star: ah.. synaptic :)
[04:46] <Treenaks> uh no
[04:46] <Treenaks> synaptics
[04:47] <dark_star> Ya
[04:47] <Treenaks> that's different :) one is a package manager :)
[04:47] <Treenaks> uh uh
[04:47] <Treenaks> it should work..
[04:48] <dark_star> Treenaks...it shows in the XF86Config file, but it does not work.
[04:48] <Treenaks> dark_star: is the kernel driver loaded?
[04:49] <dark_star> Treenak..i have really done nothing other then install it...installed it about an hour ago...what would the driver be?
[04:49] <Treenaks> don't know.. I don't have a synaptics pad
[04:49] <darkersatanic> The driver is called "synaptics"
[04:50] <Treenaks> yes in X
[04:50] <Treenaks> also in the kernel?
[04:50] <darkersatanic> I think so.
[04:50] <darkersatanic> Let me check.
[04:51] <darkersatanic> Ah, no, it's just the input core mouse driver, I think.
[04:51] <dark_star> i see synaptics being loaded with the intial boot
[04:53] <opi^work> ok
[04:53] <opi^work> time to leave the office :)
[04:55] <october> hey gang, I need help getting X configed on my laptop.
[04:55] <october> is there some gui tool I can use or something?
[04:57] <Pointwood> is there going to be a FinalFreeze version released today?
[04:58] <october> hmmm
[04:58] <october> xf86cfg doesn't seem to provide any love.
[04:59] <october> getting cannont open /dev/mouse
[04:59] <Agrajag> dexconf is supposed to do it when you install
[05:00] <october> Agrajag: that for me?
[05:00] <thisfred> Not very productive, so feel free to ignore, but anyone who worked on Ubuntu: Thanks! I've wanted to switch to Linux for a long time and now I did, and very smoothly at that. Great job!
[05:00] <Agrajag> october: yes
[05:01] <Agrajag> dexconf = debian x configurator
[05:01] <october> it asked me what res to set... and I picked the one I normally run.
[05:01] <Agrajag> so you just need to change resolution?
[05:01] <october> no clue.... I'm used to Redhat/FedoraCore just working on it....
[05:01] <october> it worked fine on my desktop, and I have a nasty nvidia card there.
[05:01] <october> heh
[05:02] <october> thought it would have been easy here, and a pain on the desktop.
[05:02] <october> don't know how to configure X
[05:02] <Agrajag> how is nvidia nasty, their drivers are a hell of a lot better than the crap ati puts out
[05:02] <Agrajag> open up /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 in an editor
[05:03] <Agrajag> go down to the "Screen" section
[05:03] <october> Agrajag: on Fedora/Redhat, it's a pain to setup nvidia, but it was easy on ubuntu
[05:04] <mjr> the same way all of the big three are nowadays nasty; lack of open drivers and specs
[05:04] <Agrajag> mjr: There are open drivers for nvidia
[05:04] <Agrajag> it's called "nv"
[05:05] <mjr> yes, and those really take advantage of the card, now don't they
[05:05] <Agrajag> of course they can't open their specs, they're industry secrets, I don't see how you can fault them for being secretive.
[05:05] <october> Agrajag: I have my box with the nvidia card all setup and working fine.  It's this Dell Inspiron laptop 7500 I'm trying to get working now.
[05:06] <Agrajag> october: well, if you'd tell us what the actual problem is I'm sure someone could help.
[05:06] <october> Agrajag: I need to know how to configure X under ubuntu.
[05:06] <october> xf86cfg isn't working.
[05:06] <Agrajag> october: I told you. Open /etc/X11/XF86Config in an editor.
[05:07] <october> I don't understand how to put it any more plain.
[05:07] <Agrajag> If dexconf didn't work, you need to do it yourself.
[05:07] <Zindar> sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86 might work
[05:07] <Agrajag> maybe, but I think that would just run dexconf
[05:07] <october> Zindar: thank you, that's what I was looking for.
[05:08] <october> Agrajag: you need to be throrough before you offer advice or get upset with people.
[05:08] <Agrajag> upset?
[05:09] <Kamion> 'dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86' is the standard way.
[05:09] <Kamion> Agrajag: dpkg-reconfigure runs dexconf at a much lower debconf priority, so it will behave differently.
[05:13] <october> bummerific
[05:13] <october> :/
[05:13] <october> I KNEW I should have saved my XF86Config file.
[05:14] <october> heh
[05:14] <october> 0000:01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc Rage Mobility P/M A
[05:14] <october> should work fine.
[05:15] <october> Agrajag: yeah, doing dexconf doesn't do anything, it just returns you back to the prompt.
[05:15] <october> kill(20173, SIGTERM)                    = -1 ESRCH (No such process)
[05:15] <Agrajag> october: yes, it writes a new XF86Config based on what it thinks you want.
[05:16] <october> that happens when I run it through strace
[05:16] <Agrajag> odd
[05:16] <october> Agrajag: yeah...
[05:16] <october> :/
[05:16] <october> *sigh*
[05:16] <october> here we go.
[05:17] <Agrajag> yeah, I ran it through strace and it spat out all kinds of crap
[05:17] <october> there used to be a nice debian tool that lets you do a real simple X setup.
[05:18] <october> I thought it was dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86
[05:22] <thom> october: that should work
[05:22] <october> thom: yeah...
[05:22] <october> thom: something isn't right.
[05:23] <mjr> #25#3
[05:23] <october> thom: X was working fine here though under FC1 :/
[05:23] <mjr> oops
[05:28] <zwiebug> is there already a german irc channel up ?
[05:31] <jensens> zwieback: why a german one?
[05:32] <zwiebug> why not?
[05:32] <zwiebug> on the page there is a spanish one mentioned...so why not a few other languages?
[05:33] <october> well... sucktacular.  :(
[05:42] <jensens> zwiebug: well, to dont split the english one too early? but why not... /J #ubuntu-de
[05:43] <jensens> zwiebug: youre right this one is new
[05:47] <oqp> kin!
[05:49] <zigong> Anyone know if Ubuntu boots on oldworld macs? I'm downloading the distro, and I'm trying to find  list of suppported models somewhere
[05:49] <Kamion> zigong: sorry, no, newworld only at the moment
[05:49] <zigong> Ok, thanks
[05:50] <guptan> Hi Room
[05:55] <ForsaKen`> if i got a .deb file on the HDD, that i want to install, how do i do it ?
[05:55] <darkersatanic> ForsaKen`: dpkg -i
[05:55] <ForsaKen`> thanks
[06:00] <guptan> I can see windows networks in nautilus, but when I click on computer shares, it gives me a filetype error
[06:02] <visik7> with debian the installation of a kernel-image run lilo to install the kernel under ubuntu how it works ? since ubuntu use gentoo ?
[06:02] <visik7> sorryt
[06:02] <visik7> I mean grub not gentto
[06:36] <paueas> if i have a pentium m and i am compiling should i be compiling as if it were a 686?
[06:50] <t35t0r> does rms recommend ubuntu ?
[06:50] <Kamion> t35t0r: you'd have to ask him that :-)
[06:51] <t35t0r> ubuntu does sum up some of his philosophies
[06:52] <martink> http://mail.gnome.org/archives/foundation-list/2004-September/msg00067.html
[06:56] <baietas> where is grub.conf in ubuntu? it's not in /boot/grub/grub.conf
[06:56] <thom> menu.lst, same directory
[06:56] <baietas> thank you :)
[06:56] <thom> grub.conf is a redhat only patch
[07:08] <viridis_> hi all, I have problems when doing 'apt-get update', is there any mirrors?
[07:09] <Kamion> viridis_: http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/Archive
[07:13] <afonit> Viridis:  did you try to go into terminal then synaptic?
[07:13] <viridis_> Failed to fetch http://ftp.acc.umu.se/mirror/ubuntu/dists/warty/main/source/Sources.gz  Sub-process gzip returned an error code (1)
[07:13] <viridis_> Failed to fetch http://ftp.acc.umu.se/mirror/ubuntu/dists/warty/restricted/source/Sources.gz  Sub-process gzip returned an error code (1)
[07:13] <viridis_> Failed to fetch http://ftp.acc.umu.se/mirror/ubuntu/dists/warty/main/source/Sources.gz  Sub-process gzip returned an error code (1)
[07:13] <viridis_> Failed to fetch http://ftp.acc.umu.se/mirror/ubuntu/dists/warty/restricted/source/Sources.gz  Sub-process gzip returned an error code (1)
[07:13] <afonit> in thta interace you can identify mirrors
[07:13] <viridis_> i get those messages
[07:13] <afonit> check what mirrors you have checked in synaptic
[07:13] <viridis_> i don't use synaptic
[07:13] <viridis_> i use apt-get
[07:13] <afonit> k, then I will be of little use
[07:14] <afonit> btw, synaptic, is the front end gui for apt-get
[07:14] <pyramid> is neighborlee here...he pm 'd me but i fell asleep
[07:14] <pyramid> he wanted to know more about ancient religions
[07:14] <viridis_> afonit, i know what synaptic is, i will try to use it
[07:14] <Kamion> actually synaptic is a frontend to the apt library; apt-get is a command-line frontend to the apt library
[07:15] <afonit> k, I was just sain' cuz you never know who know's what
[07:15] <afonit> kamion: thanks for the clarification
[07:17] <Pointwood> is there going to be released a new version today? I'm thinking of the "Final Freeze" which is supposed to be today
[07:17] <pyramid> hmmm...there hasn't been anything to compile on gentoo for a few days...i guess the programmers are tired and need a break.
[07:18] <bur[n] er> ;)
[07:19] <pyramid> does anybody know what a VHDL simulator is
[07:25] <MyIe3> hello
[07:28] <longsleep> pyramid: probably some virtual machine to emulate the VHDL language
[07:28] <Votum76> get a free ipod it really works my friend just got one http://www.freeiPods.com/default.aspx?referer=10026341
[07:28] <HcE> referer=10026341 <-- lol
[07:29] <RuffianSoldier> Hey all
[07:29] <HcE> let me guess? pyramid game?
[07:29] <HcE> hi RuffianSoldier
[07:29] <RuffianSoldier> Anybody use Cedega or Wine??
[07:29] <HcE> RuffianSoldier: I use Wine
[07:29] <pyramid> longsleep, well i really don't know...i just saw it on packages.gentoo.org today..but i have no idea what it is.
[07:30] <RuffianSoldier> HcE, is it good?
[07:30] <longsleep> pyramid: VHDL is some programming language for embedded systems / chips
[07:30] <pyramid> well i don't see anything to compile on gentoo for a couple of days now.
[07:30] <pyramid> i guess the programmers need a break.
[07:31] <HcE> RuffianSoldier: it works for me, I use some windows only program
[07:31] <HcE> nothing fancy
[07:31] <RuffianSoldier> I have it, but im not sure how to use it
[07:32] <HcE> RuffianSoldier: wine <path to windowsprogram>
[07:32] <HcE> RuffianSoldier: I have WinXP on another partition, so I have it installed there
[07:32] <RuffianSoldier> wine ~/aim/aim.exe?
[07:32] <HcE> RuffianSoldier: but I only use Windows once a month, so I usually start the programs I need with wine
[07:33] <Zero-G> longsleep|out: Verilog Hardware Description Language - it's a way of programmatically decribing logic elements, their inputs and outputs and if you get good at it, you can design chips in it
[07:33] <HcE> RuffianSoldier: yes
[07:33] <RuffianSoldier> kewl
[07:33] <RuffianSoldier> thanks
[07:34] <pyramid> Zero-G, thanks for the advice...that was very informative.
[07:34] <HcE> RuffianSoldier: no problem :)
[07:34] <pyramid> but i really don't want to design chips...i had my fill of it with the character generator chip on the TRS-80.
[07:35] <pyramid> they kept burning out and we had to continually replace them.
[07:35] <Zero-G> AHDL is better, it's Altera Hardware Description Language - it's used for the same thing, but it is built into Quartus2, MaxPlusII and NIOS - if you get them, it will take your AHDL, lay out your wafer, simulate, optimise and generally get it's groove on
[07:35] <HcE> RuffianSoldier: you know Gaim supports AIM accounts?
[07:35] <RuffianSoldier> ya
[07:35] <Kamion> Pointwood: we release a new version *every* day, namely the daily builds. :-)
[07:35] <RuffianSoldier> i use it
[07:35] <RuffianSoldier> i was just making an example
[07:36] <HcE> ok *phew*
[07:36] <Kamion> Pointwood: we haven't talked about exactly how/when the final freeze will be implemented
[07:36] <RuffianSoldier> can wine play games???
[07:36] <RuffianSoldier> like- Wine ~/UT/ut.exe?
[07:36] <PerfDave> RuffianSoldier: Sometimes
[07:36] <HcE> RuffianSoldier: some, but seldom 3D games and so
[07:37] <HcE> RuffianSoldier: check up winex, but that is not that good either =/
[07:37] <HcE> I have my own gaming box ;)
[07:37] <RuffianSoldier> same
[07:37] <RuffianSoldier> i run XP on it
[07:37] <HcE> same
[07:37] <RuffianSoldier> its fast
[07:37] <Zero-G> UT runs on Linux
[07:37] <pyramid> RuffianSoldier, why do so many people wish to run MS software.
[07:37] <RuffianSoldier> 2gighz AMD, 512 RAM, 128MB radeon
[07:37] <HcE> Doom 3 also soon (TM)
[07:38] <RuffianSoldier> pyramid, Games
[07:38] <Zero-G> at least the original UT did - dunno about your new fangled versions
[07:38] <Zero-G> ]
[07:38] <RuffianSoldier> oh ya, i can get the Linux installer for UT
[07:39] <pyramid> RuffianSoldier, but why pollute your mind with someone else's perverted biases,prejudices,opinions,etc....Saint Peter said " Care not for the pollutions of this world."
[07:39] <HcE> I do play some Enemy Territory, that run smoothes in Linux
[07:39] <oqp> as long as minesweeper runs, I'm happy
[07:39] <RuffianSoldier> pyramid, I like just about all OSs and Computers!
[07:40] <pyramid> RuffianSoldier, well i also like computers because the focus on nothingness....and i no longer want to pollute my mind with the pollutions of this world.
[07:41] <glam> hi every one.  I just install Ubuntu.  And this is the most easy debian install by far, since I had been using debian for a long time.
[07:41] <RuffianSoldier> i saydthe same th ing
[07:42] <RuffianSoldier> i came from Libranet
[07:42] <RuffianSoldier> but i will go back when the new version comes out
[07:42] <Zero-G> traitor
[07:42] <pyramid> RuffianSoldier, i don't even know why people watch movies either...and pollute their minds with propoganda,prejudices,biases,opinions, etc.
[07:43] <RuffianSoldier> i dont watch TV
[07:43] <RuffianSoldier> but i watch movies
[07:44] <glam> I mean easy, is that is also set up X very nicely, something like the Redhat does.  X just go up and running on the spot, unlike the debian stable, which you need to set it up after the install.
[07:44] <pyramid> RuffianSoldier, but what for....the Ancient Greeks tried drama,poetry,art,music,philosophy,math and so on ...and for thousands of years have been asking what is entertainment?
[07:46] <RuffianSoldier> pyramid- im no longer answering your silly questions ;-)
[07:46] <topyli> pyramid: the romans found that out :)
[07:46] <pyramid> RuffianSoldier, well i am not sure that answers even exist...much like we now know space doesn't exist in certain areas nor does time itself.
[07:47] <topyli> pyramid: what does exist?
[07:48] <darkling> Can I drag this conversation out of the rarefied atmosphere it's currently floating in,
[07:48] <pyramid> topyli, well i have been focusing on nothingness for quite a while now...and i am convinced a "Creator" exists that goes by the name "I AM"/
[07:48] <darkling> and ask if anyone's got problems with AMD64, the stock ubuntu <IP_ADDRESS> kernel, and NFS?
[07:48] <darkling> Like... maybe... locking the machine up tighter than a mouse's arse?
[07:48] <topyli> uhh... ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
[07:49] <pyramid> topyli, however i am not going to say that everything in the Bible is true...i don't believe that..but some of it appears to contain "Truth".
[07:49] <topyli> pyramid: so does much of "moby dick"
[07:50] <pyramid> topyli, yes but why did Captain Ahab want to slaughter mammals.
[07:50] <hazmat> because he's human
[07:51] <topyli> pyramid: why did abraham want the same?
[07:51] <pyramid> hazmat, yes...now we are getting somehwere.
[07:51] <hazmat> does it lead back to discussion of ubuntu  or am i on the wrong channel ? ;-)
[07:51] <spiv> hazmat: That there are short men with hairy feet? :)
[07:51] <pyramid> topyli, right...him too...like Jesus said...only he was from above...we are all from below...our father is the devil and was a murderer and a liar from the beginning and we are just like him.
[07:51] <hazmat> or shall we degenerate into a gentoo sucks discussion
[07:52] <topyli> pyramid: oh, i see.
[07:52] <topyli> but ubuntu kills not :)
[07:52] <topyli> there
[07:53] <hazmat> spiv, that somethings are precious to me, the light burns, nasty hobbits will steal me my precious.. ubuntu
[07:53] <spiv> hazmat: :)
[07:53] <topyli> feel the desmond inspiration!
[07:54] <topyli> touch the #ubuntu screen
[07:55] <MepisBelle> "User Error:  Replace User And Press Any Key"
[07:55] <pyramid> topyli, it seems to have something to do with people acting in their own best interests.
[07:55] <topyli> MepisBelle: i can't find the "any" key!
[07:55] <MepisBelle> Case in point.  <g>
[07:56] <topyli> pyramid: in whose interest are you talking off-topic scheisse on a technical ubuntu users channel?
[07:58] <oqp> "keyboard not found - press F1 to continue"
[07:58] <topyli> heh
[07:59] <fdr> hello... may I ask you a couple of questions please?
[08:00] <topyli> any question but that one :)
[08:00] <pyramid> topyli, that was excellent insight...
[08:00] <fdr> hmmm... ok sorry :)
[08:00] <fdr> ;P
[08:01] <topyli> don't ask to ask, ask away :)
[08:01] <pyramid> topyli, because i too am a child of the devil...and i will also suffer lustful desires.
[08:01] <topyli> sure, pyramid
[08:01] <topyli> now go get your medication
[08:01] <MepisBelle> Welcome to #Seminary
[08:01] <fdr> I'd like to try ubuntulinux and i am installing it on my very low-memory notebood... I'd like to set up some swap space with  swapon /dev/hda3   but there is no hda3 in dev... where is it?
[08:02] <pyramid> topyli, i get so tired of taking all that medication.
[08:02] <topyli> pyramid: good
[08:02] <topyli> fdr: dunno. anyone?
[08:02] <mwilson> fdr: Do you have such a partition?
[08:02] <topyli> fdr: i mean, either it's there or it's not :\
[08:03] <npmccallum> fdr: /dev/discs/disc0/part3 I believe
[08:03] <fdr> mwilson : sure I have :)
[08:03] <fdr> hmm
[08:03] <fdr> there is no discs under dev either
[08:03] <mwilson> fdr: The box thinks it's smarter than you, so it probably won't create the device node unless there actually is one.
[08:04] <topyli> try fdisk and check what it thinks you have
[08:04] <pyramid> topyli, what i can't understand is why we have to take all that medication just because we are insane.
[08:04] <mwilson> ubuntu would be so much nicer if you could shoot udev.
[08:05] <topyli> damn. nobody seems to have ops so pyramid is here to stay :)
[08:05] <fdr> topyli : hmm no fdisk or cfdisk available... what's the standard partitioner under ubuntu?
[08:05] <topyli> again, don't know :(
[08:05] <mwilson> sfdisk, maybe?
[08:06] <Kamion> fdisk should be available
[08:06] <mjr> hmm, couldn't find a definitive statement either from dri.sf.net or HardwareSupport Wiki, so does anyone know if Radeon 9250 has free 3d support (one would guess that it does, since it's apparently not that different from 9200, which does, but I don't like to guess)?
[08:06] <Kamion> the installer has its own partitioner, of course
[08:07] <mwilson> The installer has a "make one big partition" choice, you mean.
[08:07] <topyli> mjr: ubuntu has some ati and nvidia non-free drivers included
[08:07] <fdr> Kamion : yeah but the installer keeps complaining that it's entering low-memory mode, so I wanted to enable swap as soon as possible
[08:07] <Kamion> fdr: the installer itself tries to enable swap as soon as possible ...
[08:07] <Kamion> fdr: how much memory do you have?
[08:07] <fdr> Kamion : begin laughing... 32MB, if not less
[08:08] <pyramid> topyli, have you ever taken all that medication
[08:08] <topyli> that's plenty
[08:08] <Kamion> 32MB should be doable, though I haven't tried
[08:08] <mjr> topyli, indeed, but I'm going to buy me some hardware and there's a principle involved
[08:08] <npmccallum> fdr: you need to step through the language choices before it loads the ide modules
[08:08] <Kamion> 24MB is minimum I think
[08:08] <pyramid> topyli, for so many years
[08:08] <Kamion> just go all the way up to the partitioner, it should swapon as soon as it can
[08:08] <topyli> mjr: always get matrox cards, is what i say :)
[08:08] <fdr> hmmmm maybe i should give the installer a chance to load modules :)
[08:08] <mjr> topyli, they've gone evil nowadays too, so...
[08:09] <WW_> There is a red icon in the Firefox tool bar, and its tooltip says "Critical Update(s) Available". I just dist-upgraded ubuntu, but this did not install a new Firefox.  Is this icon integrated with ubuntu?
[08:09] <topyli> huh? evil how
[08:09] <fdr> yep
[08:09] <topyli> mjr: most disturbing. what exactly have they done?
[08:10] <pyramid> topyli, how did unbelievers ever get in charge of everything in order to declare believers insane and give them medication.
[08:10] <fdr> ok thanks
[08:10] <fdr> swap is on now :)
[08:10] <mjr> topyli, what with the proprietary driver bullshit at least for parhelia
[08:10] <mdz> WW_: no, it isn't. pay no attention to the icon :-)
[08:10] <fdr> now the system can go happily trashing :)
[08:10] <topyli> mjr: well they had that for a while for the g550 as well, but integrated it in x later. much better than others
[08:11] <WW_> mdz: Commencing ignoring. Thanks.
[08:12] <Kamion> hmm, mem=32M and similar just seems to result in the system hanging; that's useful
[08:12] <mdz> does the initrd fit?
[08:12] <Kamion> mem=64M is fine
[08:13] <Kamion> the initrd is under 10MB
[08:13] <fdr> Kamion : I managed to launch the installer
[08:13] <fdr> i got to the main menu
[08:13] <topyli> hey, armageddon on finnish tv. i'll go see how my new sound system works :)
[08:14] <Kamion> could be just this dodgy laptop
[08:14] <fdr> but whatever I chose it says it's launching the partitioner, which does not start, then gets back to the main menu
[08:14] <Kamion> fdr: by that point fdisk should be available on tty2
[08:14] <neighborlee> anyone else having trouble apt-get update'ing ?...i'm getting gzip errrors still ...??( i'm trying to find kernel source for this 2.6.8 kernel that is default in ubuntu but no luck yet)
[08:14] <pyramid> topyli, this system reminds me of Ancient Rome...and it will fall eventually as Rome fell...the citizens beliefs are misplaced.
[08:14] <npmccallum> neighborlee: if you are behind a proxy it may cause those problems
[08:15] <fdr> Kamion : hmmm.. no fdisk under /sbin or /bin
[08:15] <neighborlee> npmccallum, no  proxy
[08:15] <oqp> csfidk maybe
[08:15] <oqp> cfdisk
[08:16] <Kosai> Kamion: Any luck getting your AMD64 box online?  I can bring home an ethernet cable from work if you're short of one.  :)
[08:16] <topyli> pyramid: what are going to _do_?
[08:16] <fdr> oqp : neither :-(
[08:16] <pyramid> topyli, i don't have the foggiest idea what to do about anything...the unbelievers are in charge of everything...there is nothing i can do.
[08:16] <fdr> hmm... parted maybe ?
[08:17] <Kamion> pyramid: please take this off #ubuntu.
[08:17] <mdz> neighborlee: you probably have some things listed twice in /etc/apt/sources.list
[08:17] <tseng> hah what is pyramid on about this time
[08:17] <mdz> neighborlee: make sure you only have 'main' and 'restricted' once each
[08:17] <topyli> how about #disappointed-suckers-who-thought-everything-is-going-to-be-ok-but-now-realize-its-not?
[08:18] <pyramid> tseng, well at this time i am on seqoquil.
[08:18] <Kamion> fdr: it's in /usr/sbin/; just type 'fdisk', you don't need to know the path.
[08:18] <pyramid> seroquil...but it changes all the time over the last 15 years.
[08:18] <Kamion> neighborlee: kernel source = linux-source-<IP_ADDRESS>
[08:18] <fdr> Kamion : i don't have any fdisk
[08:18] <vertical98> What is teh default root password for the preview edition
[08:19] <topyli> vertical98: nothing
[08:19] <topyli> no root
[08:19] <fdr> Kamion : could it be /bin/parted ?
[08:19] <Kamion> fdr: try booting in expert mode and see if you can select fdisk-udeb when prompted for
[08:19] <Kamion> fdr: parted isn't fdisk, but you can try using parted from the command line if you like, yes
[08:19] <Pointwood> Kamion: okay, thanks for the info - just wondering since I downloaded the preview and was gonna install it :)
[08:20] <Kamion> Pointwood: you'll be able to upgrade anyway
[08:20] <Pointwood> I know :)
[08:20] <neighborlee> Kamion, well problem is I can't even find that one
[08:20] <oqp> vertical98, try "sudo su" at the prompt.
[08:20] <Kamion> Kosai: hm, let me look around downstairs to see if there's one long enough
[08:20] <Pointwood> just wanted to get the latest fixes and got BW to burn :)
[08:20] <pyramid> tseng, does that answer your question.
[08:20] <neighborlee> Kamion, Its only listing up to 2.6.7
[08:21] <tseng> yes, it was rhetorical anyway
[08:21] <pantz> do i need to add a repo to my sources.lst to be able to install the ati 3d drivers?
[08:21] <topyli> vertical98: better yes, 'sudo <any-command>', then give your own password
[08:21] <pantz> non-free maybe?
[08:21] <neighborlee> Kamion, apparantly due to my gzip errors :(
[08:21] <topyli> s/yes/yet
[08:21] <Kamion> neighborlee: linux-source, not kernel-source.
[08:21] <Kamion> neighborlee: ah, well yes, if mdz's theory is correct then you only have universe
[08:22] <Kamion> neighborlee: I also suggest removing the duplicate 'main restricted' entries that I bet you have in /etc/apt/sources.list
[08:22] <topyli> pantz: "restricted". i think it's enabled by default
[08:22] <noppiks> hi, ubunti included winXP in grub, but when i select it, it won't boot. grub entry seems right. sounds familiar to anyone ?
[08:22] <pantz> topyli: tx
[08:22] <neighborlee> Kamion, checking
[08:22] <Kamion> noppiks: bug #1566?
[08:22] <noppiks> oh thanks, ill check
[08:22] <james_> i am having a problem where my web browsers crash when a download dialog box opens.  happens in firefox, mozilla, and epiphany
[08:22] <neighborlee> mdz: sorry didn't catch your post..i'm checking now
[08:23] <mdz> neighborlee: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1469
[08:23] <pyramid> tseng, how the unbelievers ever got in charge i will never know..but it is not new...even Pontius Pilate asked "What is Truth?"
[08:23] <neighborlee> mdz: yes I have dups but sources.list is as it came installed...checking bugzilla now thx
[08:24] <mdz> pyramid: knock it off
[08:24] <riley> woo hoo!  I just got ubuntu working!
[08:24] <fdr> well, I got visits
[08:24] <fdr> I'll work on ubuntu another time :)
[08:24] <fdr> thanks for your help!
[08:24] <riley> sorry, i'm just excited because it's the third try
[08:24] <mdz> neighborlee: it was fixed for new installs some time ago, but existing sources.lists are not updated
[08:26] <MyIe3> hello
[08:27] <noppiks> Kamion, #1566 seems like a fscked partition table. i didnt use Pmagic, just cfdisk so should be alright i think
[08:28] <vertical98> thanks
[08:29] <MyIe3> i can't start my X . when i try to start my X ( with ) gdm i get  the strangest error .... some thingy like  "unable to read ICE authority "... when i check the Xsession-errors file i c that  it says KThemeStyle cache seems corrupt!..
[08:30] <MyIe3> the problem is tyhat i even don't have KDE
[08:30] <mdz> MyIe3: did you by any chance run k3bsetup?
[08:30] <MyIe3> no i  don't think i have
[08:30] <mdz> because it has a bug which breaks your session in just that way
[08:31] <vertical98> Tried sudo insmod 3c515 then get password prompt
[08:31] <MyIe3> i didn't tryed to burn ... as far that i can remmber
[08:31] <riley> Is there some kind of hardware browser or a command i can use to see my hardware that is detected?
[08:31] <vertical98> anything I type is incorrect
[08:33] <hazmat> riley, install hal-device-manager ui
[08:33] <tortoise__> hi, is their a script i can run to setup my wifi card?
[08:35] <noppiks> Kamion, it seems that there serveral problems with grub. no quick n dirty fix available ?
[08:35] <pyramid> mdz, ok i will knock it off...as you wish..but there is little to do today..the programmer's seem to be taking a break and getting some well deserved rest
[08:35] <vertical98> asks for password anything I type is wrong
[08:35] <tortoise__> i didnt have the card in at install is there a way to run the script after
[08:35] <pyramid> programmers
[08:35] <mdz> pyramid: they are?  I must have missed that memo :-P
[08:35] <neighborlee> mdz: okay the 'ftp' change made it work but not removing the original entries
[08:36] <RuffianSoldier> I got wine to work
[08:36] <RuffianSoldier> tested it with MmIRC
[08:36] <RuffianSoldier> mIRC
[08:36] <pyramid> mdz yes just look at the paltry offerings today at packages.gentoo.org...nothing much to do today
[08:36] <pyramid> mdz, or even the last couple of days
[08:36] <MyIe3> u don't have any Idea what should i do
[08:36] <MyIe3> ?
[08:37] <pyramid> mdz, i think i am going to experiment with glom....i finally got it compiled...and it looks interesting
[08:37] <dieman> *yawn*
[08:37] <pyramid> dieman, i can see www.glom.org bores you
[08:38] <vertical98> after I reboot, I need to insmod 3c515 so I have networking does anyone know how I can do this
[08:38] <noppiks> MyIe3, you installed a 'bare' ubunti system, and then apt-get installed kde?
[08:39] <noppiks> vertical98, try 'sudo modprobe 3c515'
[08:39] <mdz> vertical98: if it is a PCI card, please file a bug so that it can be autodetected and Just Work
[08:39] <vertical98> I did, it asks for a password
[08:39] <vertical98> 3c515 is a 10/100 isa
[08:40] <noppiks> you _do_ know your password do you? :)
[08:40] <MyIe3> noppiks:yeah i have  though ... i removed it as soon as i sow Gnome
[08:40] <vertical98> during the install I can modprobe the module and it gets its ip via dhcp
[08:40] <vertical98> it has never asked me to set the root password
[08:41] <mdz> see topic
[08:41] <noppiks> MyIe3, not the nicest way, but maybe just reinstall with gnome?
[08:41] <vertical98> then I reboot and it runs a config/install script and I can not install the driver again
[08:41] <noppiks> vertical98, you're right, but with sudo you just user your normal passw
[08:41] <mdz> the FAQ answers that question, and probably a few more as well for free :-)
[08:41] <vertical98> ok, I did not know that I try it
[08:42] <noppiks> mdz, you a dev?
[08:42] <MyIe3> <noppiks: u mean i should remove  Gnome and try to reinstall it ....
[08:43] <ForsaKen`> how do i install an .rpm in ubuntu ? i forgot :/
[08:43] <vertical98> wow RTFM does work..thanks
[08:43] <noppiks> ForsaKen`, i wouldnt if i were you
[08:43] <ForsaKen`> lol
[08:43] <[Clint] > ForsaKen`: check out alien
[08:43] <noppiks> MyIe3, reinstall ubuntu all the way if it isnt too much of hassle
[08:43] <noppiks> ForsaKen`, really :) try a .deb from debian, or compile it yourself
[08:43] <ForsaKen`> it is the radeon drivers, they come only with rpm
[08:44] <noppiks> try alien, make a tar file of it, then follow manual
[08:44] <MyIe3> <noppiks: :\ it is ... but i think i dont  have any choice .....
[08:44] <ForsaKen`> what is the command to make it a tar ?
[08:44] <noppiks> ForsaKen`, dunno, man alien
[08:45] <noppiks> MyIe3, your problem is problably solvable but in that amount of time you'll probably have ubuntu reinstalled again i think
[08:45] <noppiks> or someone else maybe can help, i gotta go
[08:46] <noppiks> tabee
[08:46] <MyIe3> <noppiks: :LOLOLOLOL yeah ...
[08:47] <MyIe3> <noppiks well i have enjoyed the !st time i installed it  i guess i will enjoy it again
[08:47] <MyIe3> yay for mt
[08:47] <MyIe3> yay for me
[08:47] <goatboy_> ForsaKen`: if you want to install the binary radeon driver, see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/BinaryDriverHowto
[08:47] <tortoise__> How do I run the network configure script?
[08:48] <Uranus> anyone have a weird bug that sometimes you click on a window by its titlebar to drag it somewhere else, but for some reason your click isn't registered? so you have to calmly click the titlebar and make sure it's being dragged?
[08:49] <pyramid> does ubuntu offer glom for its users
[08:50] <pyramid> it would seem useful if it works..but i am not sure of that at this time...however it does come up
[08:50] <ForsaKen`> i tryed to shutdown my X, i used ctrl+alt+backspace
[08:51] <ForsaKen`> and then X is coming up back, how can i kill it ?
[08:51] <Keybuk> ForsaKen`: /etc/init.d/gdm stop
[08:51] <RuffianSoldier> And for my next experiment, i will try to get UT to work with Wine!
[08:51] <pyramid> i just have a problem configuring the postgresql backend....it is quite confusing to me
[08:51] <ForsaKen`> thanks
[08:51] <Keybuk> (or just kill it about 5 times on the trot quickly :p)
[08:51] <fnordotronic> anyone know what the command is to bring up the device manager? it disappeared from my menu
[08:51] <Uranus> RuffianSoldier: doesn't UT have a native version?
[08:52] <Keybuk> fnordotronic: install hal-device-manager
[08:52] <Uranus> fnordotronic: yeah, that happened to me too a couple of days ago, it was removed from my system completely. had to get it with synaptic again
[08:52] <pyramid> how did postgresql ever become so large and bloated and confusing
[08:52] <fnordotronic> Keybuk and Uranus, thanks, problem solved
[08:53] <RuffianSoldier> uranus, yes
[08:53] <Uranus> RuffianSoldier: then why do it with wine?
[08:53] <pyramid> i wonder how long they have been working on postgresql
[08:53] <RuffianSoldier> uranus, its for GOTY
[08:54] <[Clint] > pyramid: probably since they changed the name from Postgres95
[08:54] <Uranus> oh
[08:54] <pyramid> [Clint] , oh you mean it goes back that far
[08:54] <[Clint] > farther
[08:55] <pyramid> well i guess i need to read quite a bit to set it up and test what we have on glom
[08:55] <vertical98> can someone remind me again how to set eth0 up for dhcp with ifconfig?
[08:56] <pyramid> reading the docs on postgresql reminds me of the first time i saw man mount....it was quite confusing
[08:56] <pyramid> when i looked at man mount i saw a zillion options
[08:57] <[Clint] > vertical98: auto eth0
[08:57] <vertical98> I keep getting the error unable to lookup hostname by gethostname()
[08:57] <[Clint] > veritcal98: iface eth0 inet dhcp
[08:58] <goatboy_> RuffianSoldier: there's an installer for both the GOTY and the original version.
[08:58] <vertical98> both auto and iface give no such command
[08:59] <riley> just wondering, does sound juicer go really slow all of the time or is it just my comp?  because it's going at about 0.5x on a 52x drive
[09:00] <[Clint] > vertical98: you put those in /etc/network/interfaces
[09:00] <memer> does anyone know if it's possible to easily set up xvesa via ubuntu?
[09:01] <mwh_> hmm gpdf seems to be buggy :( doesnt realy show any pdf files seems that it needs to be recompiled against the new gnome libs
[09:03] <vertical98> I modified modules to hopefully install the 3c515 module so I can finish the install
[09:03] <LinuxJones> hi everyone
[09:04] <nasdaq4088> hi
[09:04] <mwh_> LinuxJones: hi there
[09:05] <neighborlee> hey guys..where is 'gmake'...its not listed even at debians site but I  need it for one of my projects..???
[09:06] <akra> anyone else using thunderbird on ubuntu ?
[09:06] <Kamion> neighborlee: that's what non-GNU/Linux people call 'make'
[09:06] <Kamion> gmake == GNU make on systems where there's a different proprietary make
[09:06] <neighborlee> ohhhhhhh
[09:07] <neighborlee> hmm
[09:07] <neighborlee> LOL
[09:07] <neighborlee> k thx
[09:07] <akra> having a problem getting thunderbird to create a compose window when I click a mailto link from firefox...
[09:07] <Keybuk> though non-GNU make probably deserves to be renamed to "break" these days
[09:07] <daniels> heh
[09:07] <pyramid> mwh_, gpdf works here..i printed a 200 page doc on religion.
[09:08] <pyramid> gpdf and it did not hiccup at all...but i built it with gnome2.8 stuff
[09:09] <mwh_> pyramid: is this with a fully updated ubuntu system?
[09:09] <martink> gpdf binaries compiled with libgnomeprint 2.7.9x don't work with libgnomeprint 2.8.0
[09:09] <Uranus> hey guys, why doesn't my cd-burner get recognized as a cd burner? k3b, eroaster, etc, say it is a cd-reader and that I don't have a cdburner in my system
[09:10] <pyramid> mwh_, i don't have any extra hardware for ubuntu...but if i get some hardware i will be checking it out...it seems very interesting from what i hear on this channel
[09:10] <bur[n] er> pyramid: better than gentoo ;)
[09:10] <pyramid> bur[n] er, yes it would seem to be a lot easier than gentoo
[09:11] <mwh_> pyramid: ahh well you need to install ubuntu to have gpdf fail ;)
[09:11] <imka> where can i have a look at ubuntus package repo? im using fedora @ the moment
[09:11] <pyramid> mwh_, well i suspect that you only need to build gnome 2.8 properly first and then recompile gpdf
[09:12] <Kamion> imka: http://archive.ubuntulinux.org/ubuntu/
[09:12] <pyramid> i don't seem to have many problems on gnome 2.8...but i don't test everything.
[09:12] <mwh_> pyramid: well im not maintaining the ubuntu or debian packages of gnome so I probably wont be that person
[09:12] <bur[n] er> pyramid: i was just playin... debian packages are a helluva lot faster than portage though
[09:13] <mwh_> pyramid: anyways I have sent a bug report to the maintainer of the debian package
[09:13] <pyramid> bur[n] er, yes portage can take forever sometimes...no doubt about this
[09:13] <pyramid> bur[n] er, what gets me is all those vodoo patches that seem to come with every tarball..i have no idea what they do.
[09:13] <Jemm> Anyone know what package to install in Ubuntu to get a window manager under gnome?
[09:14] <[Clint] > metacity?
[09:14] <LinuxJones> Jemm, what wm do you want to run ?
[09:14] <pyramid> bur[n] er, i wonder where gentoo gets all those vodoo patches from in the first place
[09:14] <bur[n] er> their lead dev is a witch doctor ;)
[09:15] <Jemm> I have installed a custom Ubuntu system then added gnome with aptitude.  Works fine but there is no window manager under gnome so can't move or resize windows
[09:15] <pyramid> bur[n] er, well it is a mystery...that is for sure....so is their bootable CD...it does not appear to be a debian derivative
[09:15] <bur[n] er> the gentoo bootable cd?  of course not!  it's gentoo based ;)
[09:16] <pyramid> bur[n] er, well nearly every distro of linux is actually a debian derivative..they all rely on the debian isolinux approach..but gentoo seems unique in this regard
[09:16] <LinuxJones> Jemm,  That's odd do you have metacity installed ?
[09:16] <pyramid> bur[n] er, it is just a mystery
[09:17] <tseng> what does gentoo have to do with anything
[09:17] <Jemm> LinuxJones.   No, what is metacity?
[09:17] <tseng> gentoo doesnt even have a "lead dev"
[09:17] <pyramid> tseng, well that is what we don't know
[09:17] <LinuxJones> Jemm,  a wm
[09:17] <Jemm> Thanks,   I'll give it a try.
[09:17] <bur[n] er> not true... isolinux is not in every livecd....  kanotix uses grub.. as does morphix
[09:18] <LinuxJones> Jemm,  It shlod have been installed as part of Gnome I would assume.
[09:18] <LinuxJones> Jemm, err should
[09:18] <memer> anybody got any good guesses about how i could use xvesa with ubuntu??
[09:22] <Jemm> LinuxJones,    You rock.    I am installing on a small drive and Ubuntu wanted to use more space than I have so I've been installing smaller packages.   I always thought that gnome used sawfish as it's wm.  Thanks for your help
[09:22] <vertical98> Will Ubuntu run acceptably on a Pent-200?
[09:23] <LinuxJones> Jemm, no problem :)
[09:23] <Hrdwr_BoB> vertical98: not really
[09:23] <Hrdwr_BoB> I mean.. sort of
[09:23] <Jemm> vertical98 ,  I just installed on a Pent-166.  Seams fine so far
[09:23] <mjg59> memer: From a terminal, sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86
[09:23] <Mithrandir> vertical98: depending on amount of ram, I'd guess.
[09:23] <mjg59> It'll let you choose which driver you need
[09:23] <Hrdwr_BoB> p200 is .. dark ages
[09:23] <mjg59> vertical98: With plenty of RAM, it should be fine (well, except for openoffice...)
[09:23] <vertical98> Can you recommend a desktop for a p-200 64 mg ram
[09:24] <memer> mjg59, really!? thass it?
[09:24] <mjg59> memer: That'll launch the configuration program. When it asks for the driver, choose vesa
[09:24] <imka> few questions before i download the iso
[09:24] <imka> is there mplayer (with dvd support) in the repo?
[09:25] <imka> tvtime?
[09:25] <imka> and what will be the changes in the stable version = should i wait or no?
[09:25] <memer> mjg59, sorry if this is stupid, but just makin sure...we're not confusing vesa with Xvesa are we?
[09:26] <mjg59> Uh. Hang on - do you mean the kdrive Vesa server?
[09:26] <LinuxJones> imka, not in the official repo but you can find mplayer easily. check out the faq >>http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
[09:26] <bur[n] er> imka: you have to get libdvdcss yourself
[09:26] <bur[n] er> dvd support is not free... hence not included
[09:27] <LinuxJones> imka, tvtime is available in the universe repo
[09:27] <bur[n] er> wtf is tvtime?
[09:28] <imka> a tv watching app
[09:28] <bur[n] er> oh... better than gtv? or kde's tv app?
[09:29] <vertical98> quit
[09:30] <imka> its definetly better than kdetv. i dont know gtv though
[09:30] <dablitz> i cannot seem to get totem or xine to work right with my dvd rom, can someone help me out
[09:31] <bur[n] er> dablitz: got libdvdcss?
[09:31] <LinuxJones> dablitz, did you have a peek @ the faq on the wiki page ?
[09:31] <dablitz> i am pretty sure i did, but when I run totem, it won't even load
[09:31] <dablitz> wiki page/
[09:31] <dablitz> ?
[09:32] <imka> i dont like marillats stuff. i tried to install mplayer with dvd support back in the days i was using debian but it was buggy
[09:32] <bur[n] er> totem doesn't load?
[09:32] <bur[n] er> get an error?
[09:33] <dablitz> yes--hold on I will get the error for you
[09:33] <dablitz> /dev/dsp: Device or resource busy
[09:35] <bur[n] er> heh, that's a sound card issue... got any other music apps open?
[09:35] <bur[n] er> and if you say no... i say.. you lie
[09:36] <bur[n] er> do a 'ps ax' and look for some audio app
[09:36] <defendguin> ubuntu seems to be stalling during boot when it starts up ACPI daemon
[09:36] <tortoise__> x seems awfully slow and i dont know why...
[09:37] <spiv> dablitz: Chances are that esd has /dev/dsp open, and you need to configure totem to use esd instead of alsa.
[09:37] <bur[n] er> tortoise__: video card drivers?
[09:37] <bur[n] er> tortoise__: Hz that your refresh rate is set to?
[09:37] <tortoise__> ive always just left them default before
[09:38] <bur[n] er> got a runaway process?  top?
[09:38] <defendguin> ok this is the 3rd time in a row my laptop wont boot
[09:38] <defendguin> i need help now :(
[09:38] <utter_noob> anybody know any urls for helping solve install problems please?
[09:39] <defendguin> i keep having to pop the battery out in order to shut down the laptop
[09:40] <bur[n] er> defendguin: you can't hold the power button for 5 seconds?
[09:40] <defendguin> im new to laptops i didnt know there was a 5 second rule
[09:41] <bur[n] er> with any atx motherboard there is
[09:41] <bur[n] er> desktop/laptop, whatever
[09:41] <dablitz> spiv how do I cange from alsa to esd?
[09:41] <defendguin> this really sucks
[09:41] <defendguin> 4 times in a row now
[09:41] <bur[n] er> boot linux single?
[09:41] <defendguin> bur[n] er, huh?
[09:42] <bur[n] er> new to linux?
[09:42] <defendguin> no
[09:42] <dablitz> i am
[09:42] <bur[n] er> never booted linux single?
[09:42] <bur[n] er> it's a basic runlevel
[09:42] <bur[n] er> no x
[09:42] <bur[n] er> kinda like 'safe' mode for windows
[09:42] <defendguin> im going to try the recovery mode
[09:43] <riley> anybody know why it might be that cd player and totem skip about as much as a diskman that's been dropped about 5 or 10 stories?
[09:43] <bur[n] er> i think that boots linux single ;)
[09:43] <bur[n] er> riley: processor usage up to 100%?
[09:43] <riley> bur[n] er: how do i check that?
[09:43] <bur[n] er> uhh.. top?
[09:43] <bur[n] er> i know there's a gnome app, but it escapes me atm
[09:43] <bur[n] er> i always use gkrellm
[09:44] <bur[n] er> gnome-system-monitor
[09:44] <riley> bur[n] er, i have a pretty good processor though, amd64 1.7GHz
[09:44] <vertical98> are the MD5SUMS upto date on the United States mirror?
[09:44] <bur[n] er> well... check anyway
[09:44] <riley> bur[n] er, it's at 5%
[09:44] <bur[n] er> this is when playing an audio cd?
[09:45] <riley> well actually it switches from 5 to 20 as it skips
[09:45] <riley> yes this is playing an audio cd and using x chat
[09:45] <bur[n] er> hrm... i'm not exactly sure... can you set buffering options?
[09:45] <bur[n] er> to be honest, i haven't used totem or cd player all that much
[09:46] <riley> well everything about the cd-rom drive seems to be going slow... it's a 52x drive and when i try to rip tracks it rips at 0.5x
[09:47] <riley> i assume regular audio playing speed would be 1x, so that would be pretty slow, right?
[09:47] <bur[n] er> do you ahve your audio cable hooked up?
[09:47] <spiv> dablitz: If totem is using gstreamer (the default, unless you've installed totem-xine), run gstreamer-properties... it should be set correctly by default, though :/
[09:47] <bur[n] er> from drive to sound card?
[09:47] <mjg59> riley: Can you from a terminal try sudo hdparm -d 1 /dev/hdc (assuming that your CD drive is the secondary master)
[09:47] <riley> yeah i've got it hooked
[09:47] <defendguin> bur[n] er, i dunno what can i do after get in recovery mode? rmmod acpi?
[09:47] <bur[n] er> defendguin: go to /etc/init.d and chmod -x the acpi service
[09:48] <riley> mjg59: ok i'll try that
[09:48] <spiv> riley: You might need to run hdparm on your dcdrom device...
[09:48] <bur[n] er> what's hdparm do?
[09:48] <defendguin> bur[n] er, chmod -x gives permissions to what?
[09:49] <defendguin> gives what permissions
[09:49] <bur[n] er> defendguin: takes away execute permission
[09:49] <defendguin> ah
[09:49] <bur[n] er> hence the minus
[09:49] <bur[n] er> and the 'x' for execute
[09:49] <defendguin> ah ok
[09:49] <tortoise__> how can i change what services start at boot?
[09:49] <defendguin> im used to the numbers
[09:49] <riley> spiv: i ran hdparm and it says using_dma = on
[09:49] <bur[n] er> tortoise__: u can do what i just told defendguin, or you can use the gnome services tool
[09:50] <riley> spiv and mjg59, thanks, that did i!
[09:50] <riley> *it
[09:50] <defendguin> bur[n] er, i didnt know gnome had a service tool
[09:51] <mjg59> riley: Ok. What that did was enable DMA on your CD drive. It's switched off by default because it breaks on some systems.
[09:52] <riley> mjg59, ok, thanks for explaining, i was wondering what that did lol
[09:52] <dablitz> if I am having a driver issue with my video, how to I change that?
[09:53] <dablitz> i think i choose the wrong driver for my video card and cannot get x to run
[09:54] <akra> anyone recommend a good (visual) text editor with integrated ftp ?
[09:54] <offray> Hi all
[09:54] <offray> I have just installed ubuntu
[09:55] <offray> pretty nice work
[09:55] <riley> Just wondering, when i change smb.conf, are the changes put into effect automatically or do i have to run a command to restart samba?
[09:55] <offray> specially regarding autodetection and automounting of removable devices and media
[09:55] <memer> mjg59: so sorry about way long delay in reply. had to attend to something for a bit.  but, yes, i mean the kdrive vesa server
[09:55] <offray> I'm wondering, what about the root password?
[09:56] <riley> offray, i think it defaults to the same as your user password
[09:56] <will> hi what should i have under options in fstab  to allow full read /write
[09:56] <riley> because that works for me
[09:56] <offray> ok, thanks a lot
[09:56] <opi> re
[09:56] <opi> hi Riddell  :)
[09:56] <pitti> tseng: back
[09:56] <tseng> pitti: ok
[09:56] <dablitz> so my question is, where can i find the kernel on a fresh install, cuz its not in /usr/src/linux
[09:56] <will> i have this: /dev/hda1       /mnt/c          vfat    user,uid:1000,gid:100   0       0 i think its wrong!
[09:57] <pitti> tseng: damn, immediately after installation I need a whole lot of development packages
[09:57] <Riddell> hello opi
[09:57] <akra> will: try adding ",rw" after the "gid:100"
[09:59] <will> akra: hi remeber me?
[09:59] <LinuxJones> dablitz, you mean the kernel source ?
[09:59] <will> akra: reinstalled ubuntu and cant remeber setting for fstab!
[09:59] <dablitz> yes
[09:59] <Keybuk> dablitz: the kernel source isn't part of the default install, you'd need to install the linux-source package
[09:59] <dablitz> linuxjones
[09:59] <memer> anybody with good guesses as to how i might get ubuntu to work with kdrive's xvesa??
[10:00] <Keybuk> linux-source-<IP_ADDRESS> is current, I believe
[10:00] <LinuxJones> dablitz, it's not installed by defaule you have to install it,  apt-cache search linux-source to find the correct version your running
[10:00] <akra> will: did adding ",rw" work ?
[10:01] <memer> (anybody?)
[10:01] <will> nope
[10:01] <memer> rats
[10:02] <dablitz> ok found it, how do I edit it
[10:02] <will> its saying :mount: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/hda1,
[10:02] <will>        or too many mounted file systems
[10:02] <Keybuk> edit it? to do what?
[10:02] <LinuxJones> dablitz, you want to compile a new kernel ?
[10:02] <dablitz> yes
[10:02] <akra> does /mnt/c exist ?
[10:02] <dablitz> linuxjones
[10:02] <akra> will: does /mnt/c exist ?
[10:03] <akra> will: and is /dev/hda1 definitely a FAT32 partition ?
[10:03] <will> okay its working now with this: /dev/hda1       /mnt/c          vfat    user,rw         0       0
[10:03] <Keybuk> dablitz: The package suggests the "kernel-package" package; that lets you build kernels and turn them into packages -- basically you make oldconfig, make menuconfig, fiddle, make-kpkg --initrd --revision custom.1 binary, dpkg -i ../*.deb; but read the documentation that comes with it for full insight
[10:03] <will> but its view only
[10:04] <Keybuk> though you'll probably find the stock linux kernel images have the driver/feature you need as a module that can be loaded
[10:04] <LinuxJones> dablitz, you want to read a good howto here is a good one >>http://www.desktop-linux.net/debkernel.htm (don't worry about the patch stuff)
[10:04] <akra> will: add ",umask=002" after the rw
[10:04] <offray> see later
[10:05] <RuffianSoldier> Hehehehohohooohahhahaha
[10:05] <will> akra: still view only
[10:05] <memer> any kdrive afficionados in tha house?
[10:06] <akra> will: hmm
[10:06] <will> should i reboot and see then?
[10:06] <akra> will: won't make any difference
[10:07] <will> oh, yeah its not windoze
[10:07] <akra> will: umount then a mount is all that's needed
[10:07] <will> akra: will try that
[10:11] <memer> (ahem. memer clears throat wishin he'd read IRC protocol beforehand). I was wondering if anyone knows how to set up ubuntu to work with kdrive's Xvesa client?
[10:11] <Iorek> ...I have NO idea (honest and useless answer)
[10:12] <memer> hey, it's much appreciated anyway... any other brave takers?
[10:14] <Iorek> look at that...just finished reading The Hand of Thrawn, and there's a Cbaoth inhere...
[10:15] <Iorek> by the way, anybodu know how you stop mounted drives drom appearing on the desktop? :)
[10:15] <memer> no idea (an honest, tho useless response ;-))
[10:15] <tseng> Iorek: app/nautilus/volumes_visible in gconf-editor
[10:16] <Iorek> tseng thanks ;)
[10:16] <Iorek> memer it's appreciated :P
[10:19] <wm_eddie> ubuntu++
[10:20] <wm_eddie> wvdial automatically detected my cellphone
[10:20] <tortoise__> x seems slow for me when moving and resizing windows, any other operation seems fine.  does anyone know the problem?
[10:22] <october> hmmm
[10:23] <october> I've noticed some oddness.... Fedora Core 1.0 installs fine, but I have to say: nofb    I can't get Fedora Core 2.0, nor Ubuntu installed on this laptop with X working properly.  [Dell Inspiron 7500]
[10:23] <october> I have ubuntu installed here just fine now... but no X.
[10:23] <october> I tried: dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86
[10:23] <memer> (ugh. sorry folks. got disconnected. did i miss anything? kdrive blabla?)
[10:24] <LinuxJones> october, what errors does X output ?
[10:24] <october> LinuxJones: how would I ascertain that information?
[10:25] <LinuxJones> october, you can look in /var/log/XFree86.0.log at the end
[10:25] <Iorek> memer: nope. We're still clueless
[10:25] <memer> ;-) k, thanks. i'll keep huntin around
[10:27] <october> LinuxJones: occy.net/tmp/X.log
[10:27] <LinuxJones> october, I don't know what that is ?
[10:28] <vrln> is there going to be a floppy-disk installer for ubuntu?
[10:28] <vrln> looks like there's just the CD @ the official ubuntu site
[10:28] <october> LinuxJones: heh, I just scp'ed my XFree86.0.log to my site.
[10:28] <october> wanted to know if you saw any errors that stood out.
[10:28] <LinuxJones> october, :P
[10:29] <Keybuk> vrln: f,k
[10:30] <tof_> can i install k3b with apt ?
[10:30] <Keybuk> vrln: floppies are kinda deprecated, for the kind of system you'd need to run Ubuntu properly you'd almost certainly have some other way of installing it
[10:30] <ashgan> hi
[10:31] <vrln> Keybuk: yeah I agree, but I was just asking because I know someone who's CD drive isn't detected for some odd reason (it works in the sarge installer)
[10:31] <Iorek> anybody have ANY idea why my USB stick doesn't mount automatically? (and it used to mount manually but not anymore...:P
[10:32] <Keybuk> vrln: really?  that's kinda odd, and worth investigating and fixing.
[10:33] <vrln> yep, I can ask him to come to this channel
[10:34] <Keybuk> I don't really know much about the installer, it's Kamion you want for that and I suspect he's off having dinner right now
[10:34] <jeld> hello all
[10:34] <LinuxJones> october, the only thing that stands out is >> ATI(0): Not using default mode "800x600" (exceeds panel dimensions) . Were you able to select your panel type while reconfiguring  X ??
[10:35] <akra> anyone know how to get php syntax highlighting working in gedit
[10:35] <Iorek> off having dinner!  I asked that guy to message Kamion sometime
[10:38] <mxpxpod> does anyone here know where I can get a replacement hard drive for my ibook g4?
[10:38] <LinuxJones> october, it used to display a setting that allowed you to select advanced to select the monitor type and refresh settings. Where did it fo ?
[10:39] <LinuxJones> er go
[10:39] <Iorek> I ate it
[10:39] <LinuxJones> mmmm
[10:39] <Iorek> ...that doesn't help, does it :P
[10:39] <october> LinuxJones: well... there is an advanced... but it asks for horizontal and vertical sync stuff...
[10:39] <october> LinuxJones: there used to be something that said:  what laptop display do you have: or something.
[10:39] <LinuxJones> october, it doesn't give you an option to select a monitor type ?
[10:39] <PerdiX> akra, php highlighting should work in gedit, latest spec for gtksourceview is 9 months ols already...
[10:40] <october> LinuxJones: it does... but none of the values I pick are working
[10:40] <akra> perdiX: hmm... not on the list of choices in this gedit
[10:40] <LinuxJones> october, ya something about an lcd display
[10:40] <akra> perdiX: asp is there !
[10:40] <october> I can start Fedora Core 1.0 install and do:   linux resolution=1400x1050 nofb   and boot up to 1400x1050 just fine.
[10:40] <akra> perdix: oops: I lied :)
[10:40] <LinuxJones> october, start x and see what errors come up ?
[10:40] <PerdiX> akra, ^_^
[10:41] <akra> perdix: it's a .inc file ...
[10:41] <akra> so I need to tell it that a .inc file is really a .php file :)
[10:41] <LinuxJones> october, you have fb device set to load in your xf86config file
[10:42] <akra> perdix: any idea how to do that ?
[10:42] <fdr> hello again... I was wondering, besides the install CD is there also a ubuntulinux LiveCD available? thanks :)
[10:42] <PerdiX> akra, nope, still Emacs user (*sob*)
[10:42] <LinuxJones> october, I don't know if that could be causing the problem or not ??
[10:42] <akra> I like emacs - need to sort out php-mode on it!
[10:42] <LinuxJones> fdr, I think it is slated for later this year
[10:43] <october> LinuxJones: How do I know if I have framebuffer set to load?  and how can I disable it?
[10:43] <october> that's probably the problem
[10:43] <PerdiX> akra, I don't -- my .emacs is 5Megs already, and still growing ^^
[10:43] <akra> LOL
[10:43] <LinuxJones> october, edit your /etc/X11?Xfree86Config-4 file and see if it is getting loaded somewhere in there.
[10:43] <october> heh
[10:44] <october> E486: Pattern not found: framebuffer                          1,1           Top
[10:44] <LinuxJones> october, again I don't know if that is what is causing the problem. Try starting x from console and see what errors it spits out.
[10:44] <imka> should i grab ubuntu now or should i wait for the final release? any big changes expected?
[10:44] <akra> is xvncviewer the best option for vnc ?
[10:44] <defendguin> is there a gui for setting a samba share in ubuntu?
[10:45] <october> LinuxJones: thanks for trying to help.... I gotta run get some work done... ugh.  This has consumed too much of my time today. :(
[10:45] <Iorek> imka: the final release will have a tweaked Gnome, so it looks like Windows. XP-themed
[10:45] <october> LinuxJones: danke
[10:45] <Iorek> get the beta NOW
[10:45] <Iorek> before it's too late
[10:45] <akra> lorek: LOL
[10:45] <imka> Iorek i dont need that. anything else that is important?
[10:45] <tortoise__> how do i run the network setup?
[10:46] <defendguin> Iorek, i hope you joking lol
[10:46] <PerdiX> akra, I'd try tsclient
[10:46] <Iorek> No no, I'm serious. It'll even have aregistry
[10:46] <Iorek> and AciveX
[10:46] <memer> more basic Q about ubuntu: is it creating it's own repository of debian-compatible s/w or will it be making corrections back to the debian motherlode (does that make any sense?)
[10:46] <Iorek> +t
[10:46] <jensens> /usr/bin/editor symlinks to /etc/alternatives/editor which symlinks to /usr/bin/vim which doesnt exist, its called /usr/bin/vim.org
[10:46] <jensens> bug or feature?
[10:46] <memer> (didn't quite underdstand the philosophy section)
[10:46] <fdr> LinuxJones : thanks for answering my question
[10:46] <akra> thanks Perdix! it's already installed and everything :)
[10:47] <Iorek> memer: depends...it's possible to add deb-packages to your sources list in synaptic. It's just not supported
[10:47] <LinuxJones> fdr,  ;)
[10:47] <Keybuk> memer: both
[10:47] <memer> ahh, so it IS it's own thing, then.
[10:47] <imka> no, seriously. is it worth waiting? cause im excited about buntu but i dont wanna wipe out fedora if therell bepossible problems
[10:47] <Iorek> memer it HAS it's own thing, which is guaranteed to work
[10:48] <Keybuk> memer: we have our own archive which is based on Debian unstable; every 6 months we take a snapshot of Debian and apply our own bug fixes and patches to it
[10:48] <Iorek> and then there's everything Debian has, which is a teensy bit risky :)
[10:48] <memer> ok, but it just uses the same apt-get  mechanism to get at it
[10:48] <Iorek> yep
[10:48] <Keybuk> but we also give those same bug fixes and patches back to Debian and upstream
[10:48] <Keybuk> (as we apply them, rather than just at releast time)
[10:48] <memer> okk (thinking)
[10:48] <Iorek> imka in my opinion, it's better. But that's just my opinion. Why don't you use them side by side for a while?
[10:48] <imka> so the OFFICIAL ubuntu repo contains the whole debian unstable repo snapshot + ubuntu stuff
[10:49] <Keybuk> Iorek: it's not just unsupported ... it really doesn't work very well
[10:49] <memer> sooo...would i have "ubuntu" if i just change my sources list to your servers (or wotever)
[10:49] <josejavier> hi, i just installed ubuntu( amd64) in a dual operon box, and i have continuous lockups, the machine is based on a tyan board, and the graphic card is an nvidia ti4200 that sometimes shows points in screen like having a bad memory. The pc works ok in 32 bit mode with kernel 2.6.8 in other distro
[10:49] <bur[n] er> memer: good luck with that ;)
[10:49] <bur[n] er> i tried donig that from debian sid to no avail
[10:49] <memer> burner: heyyy! wattayew mean?
[10:49] <[Clint] > Keybuk: are you well-versed in libtool module loading?
[10:49] <Iorek> Keybuk but there are more packages added every day right? :)
[10:50] <Keybuk> [Clint] : I'd hope so yeah, why? :p
[10:50] <bur[n] er> some packages worked, some didn't
[10:50] <[Clint] > Keybuk: I'm curious if replacing zsh's homebrew system with libtool would be less of a hack
[10:50] <memer> hmm..ok, but in principle, that's really it then, the sources i have listed in apt-get. just point em to ubuntu's?
[10:51] <defendguin> the open office spellcheck bug hasnt been fixed yet?
[10:51] <Keybuk> memer: http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/sid_to_warty.html
[10:51] <bur[n] er> memer: in principle
[10:51] <bur[n] er> ubuntu has its own kernel that makes it different as well
[10:51] <Iorek> to ubuntu's, and the CD
[10:51] <bur[n] er> and i think some startup scripts are different
[10:51] <memer> keybuk: thanks
[10:51] <memer> burner: ok that simplifies it for me (simple brain ;-))
[10:51] <bur[n] er> i could be wrong
[10:51] <LinuxJones> defendguin, you can get spellchecking working
[10:51] <memer> ahh
[10:52] <LinuxJones> defendguin, gimme 1 sec
[10:52] <defendguin> tools -->  options -->?
[10:52] <Iorek> shout "CHECK MY SPELLING, YOU..."
[10:52] <Iorek> in the diskdrive
[10:53] <Iorek> to the rhythm of "Wannabe" by the Spice Girls
[10:53] <josejavier> any succefully install of ubuntu on amd64 ( in native mode) ?
[10:54] <LinuxJones> defendguin, start this and follow prompts >> /usr/lib/openoffice/share/dict/ooo/DicOOo.swx
[10:54] <Iorek> brbr
[10:54] <memer> keybuk: ok, thanks for this instruction set. did this work out ok for you?
[10:54] <[Clint] > Keybuk: i'll just email you and you can ignore me there
[10:54] <LinuxJones> defendguin, it worked for me
[10:54] <Keybuk> memer: yeah it worked for me
[10:54] <defendguin> :) thanks
[10:55] <Keybuk> [Clint] : heh, am mulling the zsh source
[10:55] <[Clint] > I was hoping that you were.
[10:55] <memer> keybuk: thanks (*memer rubbing hands*)
[10:55] <Keybuk> [Clint] : to be honest, this doesn't look much worse a hack than libltdl
[10:56] <[Clint] > which source are you looking at?
[10:56] <Keybuk> 4.2.0-14ubuntu1
[10:57] <[Clint] > ok; the one in sid has a patch applied which only links -lpcre to the pcre modules, -lcap to the cap module
[10:57] <[Clint] > this makes it a lot uglier
[10:57] <defendguin> LinuxJones, should i have done that as root?
[10:57] <Keybuk> you get those same problems with ltdl :(
[10:57] <[Clint] > damn
[10:57] <LinuxJones> defendguin, I can't remember I think I did it as regular user but I can't remember
[10:58] <[Clint] > thanks, back to the drawing board
[10:58] <Keybuk> basically they're using RTLD_GLOBAL which is one of the most evil things in the known universe
[11:00] <defendguin> RTLD_GLOBAL?
[11:00] <[Clint] > defendguin: man dlopen
[11:00] <pyramid> [Clint] , that libtool is hard for me to understand.
[11:00] <Keybuk> [Clint] : that's lacking the "THIS IS EVIL, DO NOT DO THIS, NO, REALLY, DON'T!" disclaimer
[11:01] <[Clint] > file a bug
[11:02] <Iorek> there
[11:02] <pyramid> [I tried reading some info on libtool when i was compiling it...but it is difficult for me to understand
[11:02] <[Clint] > you were compiling libtool?
[11:03] <pyramid> [well yes...i compile most stuff myself so i can read the README files and other stuff.
[11:03] <pyramid> but libtool is difficult to understand
[11:03] <pyramid> you know the stuff contained in the tarballs.
[11:03] <Keybuk> "Nobody understands how to write shared libraries properly, especially for more than one platform, so the Libtool developers took all the strange rules and twists for every platform and hid them in a multi-thousand line shell-script that nobody understands properly."
[11:04] <Iorek> sounds like my textbooks
[11:04] <clee> Keybuk: heh.
[11:05] <pyramid> so that is what it is all about and why it is so complicated
[11:05] <Keybuk> it's not really that complicated, it's just verbose because it has to deal with a lot of very different platforms
[11:05] <guptan> Is there any program to customize metacity themes, like colors and button position?
[11:05] <[Clint] > a lot of very broken platforms
[11:06] <jde> Hello.
[11:06] <jde> Ummm ... I'm having trouble backing up my music CD's with cdrecord.
[11:06] <Keybuk> guptan: there's a HOWTO - http://developer.gnome.org/doc/tutorials/metacity/metacity-themes.html
[11:07] <clee> jde: use sound-juicer! :)
[11:07] <jde> I've decode the files to wav and issued the command 'cdrecord -v -eject dev=/dev/hdb driveropts=burnfree minbuf=25 -dao *.wav', and all I get is alot of crappy sounds on my CD.
[11:07] <pyramid> jde, why do you want to listen to musicians that most of the time don't even bother getting expert credentials in the fields they want to vocalize.
[11:08] <clee> oh, wait. you said "Backing up" not "ripping"
[11:08] <clee> never mind
[11:08] <guptan> Keybuk, thanks
[11:08] <jde> pyramid, huh?
[11:09] <pyramid> jde, well for example what PhD's does acdc hold to qualify what they are talking about.
[11:09] <clee> pyramid: ... dude, wtf does that have to do with *anything*?
[11:09] <Iorek> LMAO
[11:09] <jde> pyramid, I don't listen to AC(thuderbolt)DC.
[11:09] <pyramid> clee, well would you follow the blind.
[11:09] <jde> Rather, I don't have any of their CD's.
[11:10] <clee> pyramid: sure, if there was free food involved
[11:10] <LinuxJones> heh
[11:10] <pyramid> clee, well remember Moses gave them free bread from heaven and Jesus said they all died...everyone of them.
[11:10] <Iorek> we strayed a bit from "how do I backup my cd"
[11:10] <meekj_> help, I just installed ubuntu on my Dell Inspiron 4100, and Gnome is frozen on startup.
[11:11] <Iorek> meekj: somehow, both Moses and Jesus are involved :)
[11:11] <clee> um, jde - did you pass '-audio' at all there?
[11:11] <guptan> Keybuk, that proves so hard to me, I just want to change color of industrial window border. Any help?
[11:11] <jde> clee, didn't help.
[11:11] <meekj_> I have deleted all related .gnome files in my home dir, nothing...
[11:11] <clee> jde: well, if you want the audio files to work at all, you need '-audio' in my experience
[11:11] <jde> For some reason k3b won't pickup my cdburner
[11:11] <clee> I've never used -dao with an audio one
[11:11] <oMega505> hey guys, anybody tried ubuntu on a Dell 8600 ??
[11:12] <pyramid> clee, my point is even free stuff may have a cost.
[11:12] <LinuxJones> meekj_, apt-get update && apt-get uprade
[11:12] <jde> All right clee, I'll give that another try.
[11:12] <Keybuk> guptan: ah, you don't even need to change that in Metacity ... it takes the colour from the GTK+ theme
[11:12] <jde> Sans the `-dao'.
[11:12] <clee> pyramid: bah, we all die anyway. I still fail to see why I should only listen to artists who have PhD's
[11:12] <guptan> Keybuk, u mean I can't change it?
[11:12] <LinuxJones> meekj_, god my typing :( apt-get update && apt-get upgrade
[11:13] <Keybuk> guptan: what you want is a .gtkrc-2.0 file containing something like http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/gtkrc
[11:13] <clee> pyramid: I don't think that it's required that someone have a PhD for me to enjoy listening to their music
[11:13] <pyramid> clee, well not just PhD's but a PhD in every topic they want to express their opinion about.
[11:13] <clee> pyramid: dude. that's completely nonsensical.
[11:13] <Iorek> *enjoying this*
[11:13] <jde> oMega505, I've installed RedHat on my sisters Dell Inspiron.
[11:13] <clee> besides which, PhD's don't actually mean *shit* in the real world
[11:13] <soleblaze> can someone tell me how initrd is setup in grub? it's giving me kernel panics when i boot
[11:13] <Keybuk> guptan: fiddle with the bg[SELECTED]  colour to your heart's content (and change text to contrast it), when you're happy with it just kill gnome-settings-daemon (it'll respawn with the new setting)
[11:13] <pyramid> clee, it does seem to border on insanity doesn't it.
[11:13] <guptan> Keybuk, where can I get those files, how can I apply them
[11:13] <meekj_> LinuxJones: Thanks, I thought it did that during the install. But it turns out this is fetching a bunch of new packages.
[11:14] <Keybuk> guptan: which files?
[11:14] <jde> pyramid, I don't think anyone offers college courses on rocking out, or big bottomed girls.
[11:14] <guptan> those gtkrc files
[11:14] <clee> soleblaze: you do 'kernel /vmlinuz' with the appropriate 'root=' argument
[11:14] <Iorek> or bad ass strippas
[11:14] <pyramid> jde, actually they are teaching sex education in some colleges now.
[11:14] <clee> soleblaze: then you follow it with 'initrd /initrd.img'
[11:14] <clee> and then 'boot'
[11:14] <LinuxJones> meekj_, ya some folks have been having problems , Let's hope it fixes you up.
[11:14] <jde> pyramid, you can't major in it though.
[11:14] <Iorek> or "the winds of change"
[11:14] <|trey|> soleblaze: grub just loads /boot/initrd.img-<uname -r>
[11:14] <Keybuk> guptan: just "wget -O ~/.gtkrc-2.0 http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/gtkrc" and then edit ~/.gtkrc-2.0 to change the colour
[11:14] <Armitager> ny local Uni does a degree in surfing - thats a cool course
[11:15] <djuuss> how to have programs run at startup?
[11:15] <pyramid> jde, well it seems like many people want to major in it...given the numbers that flock to those classes.
[11:15] <guptan> Keybuk, then where shud I save this gtkrc file?
[11:15] <jde> djuuss, you can save session and all the programs will be there when you start up again.
[11:15] <Keybuk> it's a hex triplet, like HTML uses; the colour selector of any graphics program (like GIMP) will make them for you
[11:15] <Keybuk> guptan: ".gtkrc-2.0" in your home directory
[11:15] <|trey|> djuuss: update-rc.d
[11:15] <soleblaze> I have "initrd /zephyr/boot/initrd.img-<IP_ADDRESS>-3-386
[11:15] <jde> pyramid, I'm sure alot of people would, still ...
[11:15] <djuuss> that a command?
[11:16] <|trey|> djuuss: yeah
[11:16] <soleblaze> on it's own line, is that enough or do i need a kernel option?
[11:16] <jde> djuuss, are you talking about at boot, or at login?
[11:16] <pyramid> jde, and then there is Dr. Ruth with all her brilliant sexual advice.
[11:16] <djuuss> at login
[11:16] <memerman> will there be an appreciable delay in uploading pkg fixes back to sid? like, would warty have the goods for a good long while before being sent to warty?
[11:16] <LinuxJones> djuuss,  Computer >>Desktop Settings >> Sessions
[11:16] <Keybuk> memerman: patches were being sent to Debian before we even announced Ubuntu or Canonical
[11:16] <jde> djuuss, as in login into your window manager or into the command line?
[11:16] <djuuss> wm
[11:17] <vrln> any devs here? I found a typo http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~mako/ubuntu-traffic/ --> (produce --> produced) :)
[11:17] <djuuss> LinuxJones: thx thats what i was looking for :)
[11:17] <memerman> sweet.
[11:17] <LinuxJones> djuuss,  ;)
[11:17] <|trey|> djuuss: ahh, programs loading at login to gnome != loading at boot  ;)
[11:17] <jde> djuuss, you can do that in gnome just run whatever program you want to be there at login and log out and click save session.
[11:17] <MepisBelle> http://people.evilrealms.net/~pibby/view_photo.php?set_albumName=kde&id=Intuxicated_Freefall
[11:17] <soleblaze> I get "Kernel Panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on unknown block(0,255)" when I try to boot
[11:17] <jde> djuuss, also you can add stuff to your .xinitrc file if you're going to startx.
[11:17] <memerman> so then, there's not a huuuge reason to switch to ubuntu unless i have a thing for debian on gnome (which, i do, btw)?
[11:18] <djuuss> ^o) i dont wanna have to log out just to add a prog to startup
[11:18] <jde> soleblaze, think you need to get rid of the automounter in your kernel config.
[11:18] <Iorek> there's your reason right there :)
[11:18] <pyramid> clee, i can only tell you that here in Texico today on the news...the judges are forcing and establishment to remove the 10 commandments and replace it with something else.
[11:18] <clee> memerman: well, the ubuntu guys are sidestepping a lot of stupid shit involved in Debian's politics and just focusing on the releases and making a working distro
[11:18] <guptan> Keybuk, ok, now I have download ur gtkrc file. now what shud I do
[11:18] <soleblaze> jde: ok, i'll see if that works
[11:18] <djuuss> the computer->desktop settings->sessions fills my needs just (y)
[11:18] <Keybuk> guptan: edit it
[11:18] <clee> memerman: so... yeah, eventually, this stuff will make it back to Debian proper, but... it's in ubuntu *now*
[11:18] <soleblaze> just remove it and recompile the kernel?
[11:18] <guptan> Keybuk, for mean time I will stick to ur colors
[11:19] <Keybuk> memerman: regular six-monthly releases of the latest software, stabilised and bug-fixed
[11:19] <d5t> Will Ubuntu run on a pII 233 ?
[11:19] <jde> soleblaze, yes.
[11:19] <pyramid> clee, maybe they will put a book on sex education in its place.
[11:19] <djuuss> d5t: no
[11:19] <jde> soleblaze, don't forget to install the modules and kernel.
[11:19] <d5t> djempak: what's the min specs?
[11:19] <|trey|> d5t: sure... how well, who knows, but it will
[11:19] <memerman> clee: riiight. see, that's wot i was wondering about delays in sending over to sid and whot not
[11:19] <clee> pyramid: dude, I have no idea what the hell you're trying to say.
[11:19] <jde> d5t, yes.
[11:19] <soleblaze> jde: I won't. diskless booting is fun.
[11:19] <clee> memerman: it's not that there's going to be delays in sending stuff to sid. it's that the debian developers in general don't move very quickly, in my experience.
[11:19] <|trey|> djuuss: umm, yeah it will... thats i686, ubuntu supports i386
[11:19] <soleblaze> I've hear it running on a p2 233, but slowly
[11:19] <d5t> two "yes" one "no"
[11:19] <pyramid> clee, what i am saying is that look at what all the Americans flock too....
[11:20] <clee> pyramid: dude, you're stereotyping.  Much less "flock to" anything.
[11:21] <djuuss> he asked if it 'd run. You said it wouldn't, but it might crawl
[11:21] <d5t> it has a 128mb of ram ;p
[11:21] <Iorek> Americans are specialists in disagreeing with EVERYONE
[11:21] <Iorek> in fact
[11:21] <|trey|> d5t: it might be painful, but it will run
[11:21] <pyramid> clee, true...not "all" but the numbers are staggering
[11:21] <Iorek> so are all the other humans :P
[11:21] <clee> Iorek: not to mention disagreeing amongst ourselves.
[11:21] <d5t> the PC has been sitting in my closet for a while
[11:21] <Keybuk> memerman: no, you misunderstand.  We don't upload things to Debian, we just offer the patches through the BTS.  The Debian maintainers are free to decide not to take the patches
[11:21] <d5t> so I should make use of it somehow
[11:21] <plovs> d5t: gnome might run on a p233, if you have enough memory or a big swap-file, but you can't actually do anything with it
[11:21] <pointwood> hmmm...looks like it didn't quite get my monitor right - I can't only run 1280x1024 in 60hz :/
[11:21] <clee> pyramid: Dude. I don't say "all arabians" or "all mexicans" or "all canadians" so I don't see how anyone can say "all americans"
[11:21] <djuuss> d5t: try Yoper with IceWM
[11:22] <Iorek> clee: turmoil on legs :)
[11:22] <pyramid> clee, instead of seeking spiritual rewards...they seek physical gratifications.
[11:22] <memerman> keybuk: oooooooooooohhhhh!! well, then that makes a hella difference
[11:22] <jde> d5t, you can use it as a server just strip alot the useless stuff.
[11:22] <pyramid> clee, that is true..i should not say "all".
[11:22] <d5t> jde: That's what it's going to be :)
[11:22] <pointwood> where do I change monitor specs?
[11:22] <memerman> bts?
[11:22] <jde> d5t, well there's no need to even install X then.
[11:22] <clee> memerman: Bug-tracking system
[11:22] <|trey|> d5t: not sure if I would be using a Desktop oriented distro as a server  :/
[11:22] <Iorek> pointwood: just a question, but what's your video hardware?
[11:23] <plovs> d5t: just use debian stable and security updates from cron then will run for years
[11:23] <memerman> gotcha (thinkin some more)
[11:23] <jde> d5t, 233 should be more than enough for a small server.
[11:23] <d5t> |trey|: For personal use.
[11:23] <djuuss> ahh a server
[11:23] <djuuss> try a livecd
[11:23] <pointwood> Iorek: Geforce ti4200
[11:23] <pyramid> clee,  i am just glad we have gnome-sword working.
[11:23] <mako> vrln: that's been fixed :)
[11:23] <|trey|> d5t: install Debian itself, and pick "install packages manually", only install what you plan on needing...
[11:23] <clee> pyramid: gnome-sword?
[11:23] <mako> crimsun: the typo
[11:23] <mako> ergh.. vrln: the typo
[11:23] <mako> crimsun: sorry, not for you
[11:23] <pyramid> clee, yes an excellent referencing tool.
[11:24] <pointwood> Iorek: and a Sony 19" monitor
[11:24] <|trey|> d5t: a 233 should not be used "for personal use", it barely qualifies as a valid server here  :)
[11:24] <Iorek> pointwood: nvidia?
[11:24] <pointwood> yes
[11:24] <Iorek> ah
[11:24] <vrln> :)
[11:24] <d5t> |trey|: well... I don't want to upgrade ;p
[11:24] <Iorek> you need to download and install the driver for that one
[11:24] <clee> |trey|: bah. a 233 is more server than any mere mortal should ever need.
[11:24] <djuuss> maybe get debian patato or sumn
[11:24] <Iorek> pointwood: hold on
[11:24] <pointwood> k, thx
[11:24] <jde> d5t, 233 is enough for a server.
[11:25] <tortoise__> how can i change the services that start at boot?
[11:25] <|trey|> clee: perhaps, my server is a 633  :/   that part wasn't my point though  :)
[11:25] <djuuss> clee: who said you were dealing with mere mortals?
[11:25] <clee> djuuss: heh.
[11:25] <pyramid> clee, gnome-sword is a very interesting project.
[11:25] <clee> |trey|: seriously though. I have a quad-PPro-200 at home and that thing is a monster. :)
[11:25] <LinuxJones> tortoise__, you can use update-rc.d to modify your runlevels
[11:25] <clee> the only reason I'll ever need more power is because that thing sucks juice like there's no tomorrow
[11:27] <|trey|> clee: hah, to me "personal use" envolves web browsing etc... these things are not something I would contemplate on the 233  :)
[11:27] <|trey|> clee: the 633 here is the slowest box in the house (if you don't count the routers), so yeah  :)
[11:28] <d5t> hmm what browser does ubuntu come with?
[11:28] <d5t> if any
[11:28] <|trey|> firefox
[11:28] <djuuss> my sister HAS to be the slowest box in this house
[11:28] <d5t> excellent
[11:28] <djuuss> did i say house? i meant country
[11:28] <|trey|> djuuss: hahah... mean  :)
[11:29] <djuuss> also has ... *shiver* epiphany *shrug*
[11:29] <Iorek> but not links
[11:29] <Iorek> I checked :p
[11:29] <djuuss> hint: apt-get install opera
[11:29] <jde> djuuss, epiphany doesn't come standard.
[11:29] <djuuss> it doesnt?
[11:29] <djuuss> did i bring that horror upon myself?
[11:29] <Iorek> not as far as I know
[11:29] <jde> djuuss, no at least in my install it didn't.
[11:30] <Iorek> yes, yes you did.
[11:30] <|trey|> djuuss: epiphany is only in universe afaik
[11:30] <djuuss> :|
[11:30] <Iorek> you were ready for...
[11:30] <Iorek> an epiphany!
[11:30] <djuuss> lol
[11:30] <plovs> djuuss: firefox is standard on ubuntu
[11:30] <|trey|> epiphany makes me wanna kill people
[11:30] <djuuss> yeah i uncommented the universe repos
[11:30] <jde> Actually `apt-get install epiphany' installs the epiphany game.
[11:30] <djuuss> yeah
[11:30] <|trey|> jde: epiphany-browser
[11:30] <djuuss> its an added protection measure against the "browser"
[11:31] <jde> So you'd have specify epiphany-browser if you want that.
[11:31] <Iorek> so...what exactly IS wrong with epiphany? :P
[11:31] <jde> djuuss, I guess subconciously you really like epiphany. :P
[11:31] <djuuss> maybe
[11:31] <djuuss> maybe subconiously i really like my sister as well
[11:31] <plovs> Iorek: no adblock
[11:31] <Iorek> I switched from IE to firefox...
[11:32] <jde> My younger brothers like epiphany.
[11:32] <d5t> who hasn't ;p
[11:32] <Iorek> there were a LOT of reasons for that
[11:32] <d5t> besides all the mainstream people
[11:32] <jde> Over firefox, that is.
[11:32] <|trey|> Iorek: other then not being Firefox, and requiring another browser to run, not much
[11:32] <dom> Hi everyone, this is dom. Question: what version of debian is used?
[11:32] <djuuss> Iorek: the gui, the sourcecode, the name
[11:32] <djuuss> :D
[11:32] <Iorek> 1) to get rid of that stupid turning "E"
[11:32] <djuuss> other than not beeing either firefox or opera
[11:32] <vrln> dom: ubuntu is based on unstable
[11:32] <jde> dom, unstable.
[11:32] <djuuss> no
[11:32] <|trey|> djuuss: bah, I hate opera more then IE  :/
[11:32] <djuuss> its more complicated
[11:32] <dom> Thank you must be 3.042?
[11:33] <djuuss> |trey|: blasphemy!
[11:33] <dom> meant to say 3.0r2
[11:33] <Iorek> ubuntu is based on a stabilised unstable
[11:33] <|trey|> djuuss: bah, the renderer is a pos!
[11:33] <|trey|> at least sites look right in IE  :/
[11:33] <Iorek> no no, there's the turning "E"
[11:33] <djuuss> |trey|: true that, i'd skip to firefox forever if it gave *mouse gestures!!*
[11:34] <|trey|> Iorek: you can get rid of that in both cases...
[11:34] <Iorek> no site ever looks right when that nausea inducing E
[11:34] <Iorek> trey, yeah, install firefox? :P
[11:34] <dom> I have used almost every distro since redhat 6 and have found debian and based distros best of all.
[11:34] <jde> djuuss, there are extensions for that.
[11:34] <djuuss> :|
[11:34] <|trey|> djuuss: it does, as an extension
[11:34] <Iorek> jde that was what I was thinking
[11:34] <Iorek> defintely saw mouse gestures inthere
[11:34] <djuuss> ..apt-get install mouse-gestures-for-firefox
[11:34] <djuuss> ?
[11:34] <jde> djuuss, no.
[11:34] <djuuss> if only !
[11:35] <jde> djuuss, you'll have to download them by hand.
[11:35] <|trey|> djuuss: not everyone utilizes mouse gestures, kinda pointless having it bloat the main product...
[11:35] <plovs> djuuss: besides there is a plugin
[11:35] <jde> Adblock would be a nice default though.
[11:35] <djuuss> |trey|: true dat, but i do, if you don't want mousegestures then use firefox
[11:35] <|trey|> Opera = worse bloat then main mozilla
[11:35] <Armitager> is there a link somewhere for how to get X working at all with an radeon 9800 on ubuntu?
[11:35] <djuuss> now there your crossing a line
[11:35] <plovs> jde: and add bookmark here
[11:35] <|trey|> djuuss: *then don't install the extension
[11:36] <djuuss> opera is definitly faster then mozilla main
[11:36] <Iorek> http://update.mozilla.org/extensions/showlist.php?category=Mouse%20Gestures
[11:36] <Iorek> djuus
[11:36] <djuuss> thx!!!
[11:36] <|trey|> djuuss: Firefox lacks nothing, but doesn't come bloated to start
[11:36] <djuuss> apt-get remove opera
[11:36] <djuuss> i have the gestures!
[11:36] <djuuss> :P
[11:36] <|trey|> apt-get killitdead opera
[11:36] <Iorek> THAT is a Middlefinger Gesture
[11:36] <djuuss> apt-get gunitdown opera
[11:37] <plovs> djuuss: but firefox on a p500 *is* slowerthen opera on a p3.2
[11:37] <|trey|> djuuss: dpkg -P opera though, gets rid of config stuff, so its really gone  :)
[11:37] <dom> apt-get purge winxp
[11:37] <djuuss> ahh the tested-and-proven dpkg --napalm opera!
[11:37] <|trey|> dom: that doesn't work, you mean apt-get remove --purge winxp  :)
[11:37] <Iorek> apt-get girlfriend
[11:37] <djuuss> plovs: thats why i used opera on wind00ze
[11:37] <dom> you got it
[11:37] <jde> Iorek, you for got to install girlfriend.
[11:38] <djuuss> Iorek: didnt work, had too many dependancies
[11:38] <plovs> djuuss: in the bad old days
[11:38] <|trey|> djuuss: I ran it on a 633 with 128 ram, was fine  :/
[11:38] <djuuss> plovs: they keep me awake
[11:38] <djuuss> lol
[11:38] <djuuss> Iorek tried to apt-get girlfriend
[11:38] <|trey|> apt-get moo  :)
[11:39] <nilkram> hi there.
[11:39] <jde> Hello.
[11:39] <djuuss> it depended on not having networking support exept for AOL
[11:39] <nilkram> Question: is there some other place than /boot/menu.lst to add other OS'es to boot?
[11:39] <nilkram> my menu.lst get's overwritten now and then...
[11:39] <plovs> nilkram: no
[11:39] <akra> nilkram: keep a copy ?
[11:39] <djuuss> nilkram: don't overwrite it
[11:39] <joem> nilkram, how does it get overwritten?
[11:39] <jde> nilkram, you should back up your menu.lst before editing it.
[11:40] <|trey|> djuuss: blah... upgrade to friend-with-benifits, all the features of girlfriend, without all the bloat  :)
[11:40] <nilkram> good question how actually. I think it's overwritten by a new kernel package. maybe.
[11:40] <jde> http://zero-install.sourceforge.net/
[11:40] <joem> that only edits a section of it
[11:40] <nilkram> I meant /boot/grub/menu.lst b.t.w.
[11:40] <joem> don't add stuff into the debian automagic section
[11:40] <djuuss> |trey|: girlfriend without bloat? whats that? apt-get handjob?
[11:40] <jde> You can just get a girl that way without having to commit.
[11:41] <nilkram> joem: ah, is that it... thnx.
[11:41] <|trey|> djuuss: ahh, no, I already have that feature  :/
[11:41] <djuuss> you'd better not get it from the testing branch
[11:42] <djuuss> the point with apt-get fullblown-gf is the dependancies.
[11:42] <djuuss> Hey Iorek what peer reset your connection?
[11:42] <Iorek> cool, apt-get girlfriend crashed everything
[11:43] <Iorek> probably too much too ask
[11:43] <djuuss> yeah
[11:43] <djuuss> depended on epiphany :P
[11:43] <Iorek> lol
[11:44] <djuuss> "not enough space on harddisk, cpu cycles, bandwith, swapspace, memory, screen colors, sound channels"
[11:45] <nilkram> ok. Another question. How can I install restricted modules on AMD64? When I try to pick any the packages (x86_64/K8) synaptic says the module depends on itself and cannot be installed...
[11:45] <Iorek> "I don't like young people, but if it was a cime to be sex-obsessed, tone-deaf and totally incomprehensible, we'd have to arrest the whole population of france!"
[11:45] <djuuss> have it not check for dependancies?
[11:45] <djuuss> fortune?
[11:46] <djuuss> hehe my brother did something neat
[11:46] <djuuss> he mounted /dev/null to /mnt/the-void
[11:46] <nilkram> not checking for depencies wasn't my first preferred choice on a new distrib I'm not used to... :-/
[11:46] <djuuss> well if the dependancie is the same package
[11:46] <djuuss> what choices do you have
[11:47] <djuuss> you already know all it depends on is the package itself
[11:47] <akra> is it possible to have an ntfs drive mounted, but not have an icon on the desktop ?
[11:47] <djuuss> so you have all other packages
[11:47] <|trey|> djuuss: drop it, its lost its humor  ;)
[11:47] <djuuss> drop what?
[11:47] <djuuss> the void thing?
[11:48] <djuuss> or you not having a gf?
[11:48] <djuuss> there's a great support group for people like you trey
[11:48] <djuuss> go to #ubuntu
[11:48] <djuuss> ;)
[11:48] <|trey|> akra: it shouldn't even be showing up on desktop... you put it in /etc/fstab right?
[11:49] <nilkram> djuuss: there's only one package in the properties depends list in synaptic. itself.
[11:49] <|trey|> djuuss: I have no probs in that department  ;)
[11:49] <djuuss> then its safe not to check for deps
[11:49] <jamescube> if i select the smp kernel in synaptic, will it add it as an option to grub and leave the regular kernel instact?
[11:49] <akra> trey: yep - in /etc/fstab
[11:49] <|trey|> akra: yeah, then I don't see why are you are getting an icon on the desktop...
[11:49] <djuuss> |trey|: i asked you a question. You didn't answer it
[11:49] <akra> trey: line is: /dev/hda2       /c              ntfs    ro,user,auto,umask=022  0       0
[11:50] <|trey|> djuuss: what you ask?
[11:50] <djuuss> what lost its humor?
[11:50] <|trey|> akra: looks right, not sure why there is an icon on your desktop  :/
[11:51] <|trey|> djuuss: the gf thing  :/
[11:51] <djuuss> i dropped it, you brought it up again :P
[11:51] <akra> |trey|: hmm... thanks anyway :)
[11:51] <|trey|> I thought it was on the same subject, left for a sec, my mistake  :/
[11:51] <|trey|> akra: you're welcome...
[11:52] <djuuss> i was talking about my brothers /dev/null mounted and he using it as a trash compacter
[11:52] <imka> warty iso is at 66%
[11:52] <djuuss> yeah
[11:52] <|trey|> imka: yay  :)
[11:53] <djuuss> so make a script that moves whatever you inputted to the mountpoint
[11:53] <djuuss> call it "void"
[11:53] <|trey|> djuuss: no point  :/
[11:53] <djuuss> and echo "the data was lost forever..."