[10:43] <hadrianweb> Good morning everybody!
[10:45] <hadrianweb> Somebody tries to use maas commision over tagged vlan?, I can boot by PXE but after root mount DHCP is not on the same vlan so it can't get IP
[10:46] <hadrianweb> Anybody knows if there are any solution?


[07:45] <mvo> asac: abut bug #289396 - is there a way to make firefox *not* do that?
[07:46] <mvo> asac: remove downloaded files opened with a application when ff closes?
[08:34] <crevette> hello
[09:08] <huats> morning everyone
[09:09] <seb128> lut huats
[09:11] <huats> hey seb128
[09:11] <huats> how are you ?
[09:14] <seb128> huats: good, you?
[09:15] <huats> great too :)
[09:15] <huats> I might a little time to do some stuffs today
[09:17] <didrocks> morning huats & seb128
[09:17] <huats> hey didrocks
[09:17] <seb128> lut didrocks
[09:23] <crevette> salut la jeunesse
[09:24] <huats> hey crevette
[09:25] <seb128> lut crevette
[09:25] <seb128> crevette: I fixed the directfb issue, gtk 2.15 might be uploaded today ;-)
[09:26] <crevette> salut huats & seb128 and didrocks
[09:26] <crevette> seb128, hoooo
[09:26] <seb128> I'm test building it now, let's see if there is some other errors
[09:26] <crevette> nice
[09:33] <didrocks> lut crevette
[10:34] <pitti> vuntz: bonjour
[10:34] <pitti> vuntz: what gettext domain field do you use in OpenSUSE in .desktop files?
[10:34] <pitti> vuntz: we have used X-Ubuntu-Gettext-Domain:, since Gettext-Domain: wasn't accepted into the spec
[10:34] <vuntz> pitti: guten tag
[10:35] <pitti> but now I'm discussing a modification of intltool-merge to do this
[10:35] <vuntz> let me check
[10:35] <vuntz> pitti: we use X-SUSE-Gettext-Domain
[10:35] <pitti> in the course of bug 123025
[10:36] <pitti> I have the gconf patch, but the intltool side is still missing
[10:36] <pitti> vuntz: . o O { it's really high time to get this accepted as Gettext-Domain:, duh }
[10:36] <vuntz> pitti: however, in our case, when the key is not present, we default to some domain
[10:37] <pitti> vuntz: with this gconf patch, I'd like to avoid further hacks in our build system and instead integrate it properly into intltool-merge
[10:37] <vuntz> and it turns out that in our infrastructure, we ship all the translations of desktop files in one domain
[10:37] <pitti> and danilo says for that we shoudl make it consistent with .desktop files as well
[10:37] <pitti> oh, surprising
[10:39] <vuntz> for gconf, hrm.
[10:39] <pitti> vuntz: danilos says, we might get X-GNOME-Gettext-Domain: upstream in intltool
[10:39] <seb128> we should use the same one domain trick, that would make easier to translate menu items for translators ;-)
[10:39] <pitti> then we could change our glib etc. packages to look for that in addition
[10:40] <pitti> vuntz: WDYT, would that work for your packages as well?
[10:40] <vuntz> yeah
[10:40] <vuntz> but we should probably sit down and work on a good mail for the xdg mailing list
[10:40] <vuntz> to get the key "upstream"
[10:41] <vuntz> pitti: now I wonder... I modified a bit the ubuntu patch, and killed one or two bugs, iirc
[10:41] <vuntz> pitti: did I send you my version of the patch?
[10:43] <seb128> vuntz: no
[10:43] <seb128> vuntz: you did use a different logic though no?
[10:44] <seb128> vuntz: you were speaking about cleaning the translations in packages and prefering the .desktop strings to the gettext one (ie reversed preference order compared to ubuntu)
[10:45] <vuntz> seb128: ah, yes, we do that
[10:45] <vuntz> I thought you did too
[10:45] <vuntz> don't remember exactly what you do :-)
[10:45] <seb128> vuntz: we just look in gettext before looking in the .desktop for translations
[10:45] <seb128> vuntz: ie language packs have the preference there
[10:46] <vuntz> vuntz@lyon ~/>wc -l /usr/share/applications/totem.desktop
[10:46] <vuntz> 21 /usr/share/applications/totem.desktop
[10:47] <vuntz> seb128: hrm, I need to check in a vm, but how can the user edit the desktop file?
[10:48] <pitti> vuntz: your approach to .desktop is pretty much what I use for gconf translations now
[10:48] <pitti> i. e. kill the existing translations from it and only use gettext
[10:49] <vuntz> nod
[10:49] <pitti> I wouldn't be opposed at all to use the same approach for .desktop
[10:49] <seb128> vuntz: we did patch the edit tools to change the Name= key rather than Name[locale]= if that's the question
[10:49] <pitti> then we'd use the same patch, and can possibly get it upstream
[10:50] <seb128> vuntz: this way the Name doesn't match what is in the gettext translations and the Name is used
[10:50] <seb128> vuntz: I've to admit I like your way
[10:50] <seb128> ie cleaning the .desktops and prefering the translations in those over gettext, that fix corner cases and edition
[10:51]  * pitti summons danilo
[10:51] <vuntz> seb128: ah, yes, I remember now. You already told me
[10:51] <seb128> pitti: what do you need danilo for there?
[10:51] <pitti> danilos: hello
[10:51] <seb128> hey danilos
[10:52] <danilos> hi pitti, seb128
[10:52] <pitti> I was discussing with danilos how to get the corresponiding changes into intltool-merge
[10:52] <vuntz> danilos: DUDE
[10:52] <danilos> seb128: he simply likes me, it's not that he needs me for anything
[10:52] <pitti> i. e. for gconf .schemas, don't put the translation into it, just the domain
[10:52] <danilos> vuntz: hi there :)
[10:52] <seb128> pitti: ok, dobey is the intltool maintainer btw
[10:52] <pitti> and for .desktops, just add X-GNOME-Gettext-Domain: instead of the translations
[10:52] <pitti> seb128: oh, I thought dobey and danilos?
[10:52] <seb128> pitti: +too then
[10:53] <danilos> seb128: you are just badly informed, dude
[10:53] <vuntz> pitti: in your scheme, is it the gconf server or the gconf client that reads the translations?
[10:53] <pitti> but of course I don't like to modify every upstream package's build system to enable that mode
[10:53] <seb128> danilos: every time I ping you about intltool you bounce me to dobey or bugzilla usually!
[10:53] <pitti> vuntz: it has been the server so far, and I kept it that way
[10:53] <danilos> seb128: that's because I am lazy, not because I am not a maintainer ;)
[10:53] <seb128> danilos: I see ;-)
[10:53] <danilos> seb128: or maybe because I am a lazy maintainer
[10:54] <seb128> slacker!
[10:54] <pitti> so I proposed something like INTLTOOL_EXTRA_ARGS=--only-add-domain inltool-merge ...
[10:54] <pitti> then we can define INTLTOOL_EXTRA_ARGS=--only-add-domain in our build systems, and inltool would just append those to its command line
[10:55] <pitti> the new option --only-add-domain would then add X-GNOME-Gettext-Domain: (.desktop)/<gettext_domain> (.schemas) instead of merging translatiosn
[10:55] <danilos> so, we can easily add the option to inltool to allow for something like this to happen, and then gradually extend all the intltool modes to support it
[10:56] <danilos> start with .desktop and .schema ones (so both SuSE and Ubuntu could drop whatever they are using to add X-*-Gettext-Domain) to them
[10:56] <pitti> vuntz: above schema should be what you are doing in suse, and it's what I'd like to do in Ubuntu as well
[10:56] <pitti> (right?)
[10:57] <pitti> oh, hang on
[10:57] <pitti> changing intltool-merge is a PITA
[10:57] <pitti> because for some reasons many upstreams bundle intltool-merge instead of using the system's
[10:58] <seb128> wasn"t that deprecated in some recent version?
[10:58] <vuntz> pitti: hrm, in our setup, we still need intltool to put translation in desktop files. We have a script that handles the part about trimming translations and adding what we want
[10:59] <vuntz> pitti: and unless everybody uses intltool, we'll have to stay this way
[10:59] <seb128> vuntz: why do you need to add those?
[10:59] <pitti> vuntz: that's what we currently do as well, in a cdbs (build system) rule which mangles the .desktop files
[10:59] <vuntz> seb128: that's the way our script works
[10:59] <seb128> vuntz: well, it would only behave this way when using --only-add-domain
[10:59] <danilos> seb128: it was deprecated, but only in a very recent version
[10:59] <pitti> it seems so much cleaner to do it in intlool itself, but if everyone ships ancient copies, that makes it impossible
[10:59] <vuntz> seb128: we wouldn't want to have one way for intltool-powered packages, and another one for other packages
[11:00] <seb128> pitti: GNOME doesn't
[11:00] <pitti> seb128: I looked at gconf and gnome-mount, both do
[11:00] <seb128> vuntz: right
[11:00] <seb128> pitti: weird
[11:00] <danilos> pitti: how old are gconf tarballs? do they make regular releases?
[11:00] <pitti> it's still 2.24.0
[11:00] <pitti> seems we don't have a 2.25 gconf yet?
[11:01] <seb128> I've it on my disk
[11:01] <pitti> seb128: heh, good test how well my patch ports to that :)
[11:01] <seb128> the tarball still has intltool-*.in though
[11:01] <vuntz> yeah, seb128 is slow to package
[11:01] <vuntz> he's getting old
[11:01]  * pitti hugs seb128
[11:01] <danilos> seb128: maybe it has a recent enough intltool, at least?
[11:01] <seb128> vuntz: no, I'm carreful with GNOME changes nowadays rather, too much screwing up there recently ;-)
[11:02] <pitti> danilos: not recent enough to have the feature we are currently planning :)
[11:02] <seb128> vuntz: my gnome-session dialogs look ugly now for example ;-)
[11:02] <vuntz> seb128: I read it, yeah
[11:02] <seb128> IT_PROG_INTLTOOL([0.35.0])
[11:02] <seb128> in gconf
[11:03] <danilos> seb128: that's the minimum version, not indication of what is being used
[11:03] <seb128> they should update to 0.4n
[11:03] <pitti> seb128: dialog> not using the theme, as it seems
[11:03] <seb128> danilos: where do you see the version they used
[11:03] <danilos> seb128: they are all 0 bytes in the tarball I just downloaded
[11:03] <danilos> seb128: you could see it in the file, if anything was there
[11:03] <seb128> danilos: right
[11:05] <danilos> seb128: so, for example, this is the particular feature (not having intltoolize install .in scripts inside the tarball) that Rodney worked on, so he'd have better grasp of that, and I'd likely point you at him :)
[11:05] <seb128> right ;-)
[11:06] <lool> pitti: intlool :)
[11:06] <pitti> lool: ?
[11:06] <pitti> oh, oops :)
[11:07] <pitti> seb128: could you put your gconf 2.25 package somewhere, so that I can port my patch and play with it?
[11:08] <danilos> seb128, pitti, vuntz: however, I believe the best bet is to start on this and get it done in GNOME 2.25
[11:08] <seb128> pitti: I didn't package it yet, I have the tarball only for now
[11:08] <pitti> seb128: ah, ok; nevermind
[11:08] <vuntz> danilos: it's getting late for 2.25
[11:08] <seb128> pitti: http://download.gnome.org/sources/GConf/2.25/GConf-2.25.0.tar.gz
[11:08] <seb128> pitti: you are welcome to do the update if you want ;-)
[11:08] <pitti> seb128: okay
[11:08] <danilos> vuntz: well, for 2.25 intltool at least
[11:09] <pitti> seb128: can as well do it
[11:09] <seb128> thanks
[11:09] <seb128> I'm still fighting gtk 2.15
[11:11] <pitti> seb128: yay, my patch still applies cleanly :)
[11:12] <pitti> seb128: okay, I'll test it and upload it once I'm satisfied
[11:12]  * crevette imagine seb128 as a knight fighting the GTK dragon
[11:13] <seb128> pitti: ok thank you
[11:14] <seb128> crevette: ;-)
[11:15] <pitti> seb128, danilos, vuntz: hm, so in order to get the feature rolled out, would you be mad at me if I used our build sytem rules instead of intltool modifications to change the .schemas files accordingly, until we get the feature into intltool and that lastest version into GNOME tarballs?
[11:16] <seb128> go for it
[11:17] <vuntz> pitti: if you want to test it soon, this makes sense
[11:18] <asac> any clue if its true that "Ctrl-Shift-B" is a reserved key combination in gtk+ ?
[11:19] <asac> mozilla has a comment in code that reads: "# Accel+Shift+A-F are reserved on GTK2
[11:19] <asac> "
[11:19] <danilos> pitti: yeah, just do it, we can integrate it upstream later
[11:20] <pitti> argh, GNOME again took over my F9 to F12 keys
[11:20] <pitti> *nnnng*
[11:20] <danilos> pitti: how are you going to get to your 12-th workspace now?
[11:20] <pitti> I use F9 for vim's pastetoggle, and F11 to get fullscreen in terminals
[11:37] <danilos> btw, I've found that with the new xdev keyboard driver, I get total mess sometimes (and totally unrelated mess on my laptop and my desktop)
[12:07] <tkamppeter> pitti, did you do your SRU session today already?
[12:08] <pitti> tkamppeter: not yet, still working on something
[12:56] <crevette> yeah mighty seb128_ beat the GTK monster
[12:56] <seb128_> crevette: ;-)
[12:56] <crevette> seb128_, I'll look to epiphany this week end of nobody tak it before
[12:56] <seb128_> you just need to talk to it nicely ;-)
[12:56] <crevette> MERCI !!!!
[12:57] <seb128_> crevette: ok, I was maybe going to do it but you can do that if you want
[12:57] <crevette> ah
[12:57] <crevette> as you want
[12:57] <crevette> if you do it I'll have it tonight
[12:57] <crevette> :)
[12:57] <seb128_> crevette: if you want to do it I will not say no ;-)
[12:57] <crevette> okay
[12:57] <crevette> take some rest :)
[12:58] <seb128_> crevette: I've many other things to do and I'm not tired so that's ok ;-)
[12:58] <seb128_> crevette: the update require quite some packaging changes since they stopped shipping the webkit backend in the same tarball
[12:59] <seb128_> crevette: let me know if you think that will not manage to do the required packaging changes
[13:01] <crevette> okay but I'll look it only tonight
[13:37] <kwwii> anyone know how to increase the system font size (trying to increase the size in gdm)
[13:37] <kwwii> ?
[13:42] <pitti> kwwii: shouldn't that be defined in the theme?
[13:42] <pitti> kwwii: I guess the only thing that'd help would be to tell X to use a different dpi, but ICBW
[13:42] <kwwii> pitti: for the labels it respects the size I set but for the text entry, date, clock and button label it doesn
[13:42] <kwwii> 't
[13:42] <kwwii> :-(
[13:44] <kwwii> pitti: I think it gets it somewhere else but I have no idea where
[13:44] <kwwii> and googling for this only results in several people complaining that it doesn't work when set in the theme
[13:58] <soren> asac: Did you get around to doing the firefox plugin database rebuild yet?
[14:03] <dobey> kwwii: i think the entries might have hardcoded size or something silly?
[14:04] <asac> soren: yes. i didnt get to it. you need a package from jaunty right?
[14:05] <kwwii> dobey: lol, I think that the gdmthemetester doesn't respect what is in the theme but gdm itself does
[14:05] <kwwii> I just booted my test system and the text seems larger at least
[14:05] <dobey> that is also a possibility
[14:09] <dobey> kwwii: we should really get rid of that awful dialog in nautilus
[14:11] <kwwii> I can confirm that the font sizes *do* change per theme in the real gdm but not in the gdmthemetester, in case anyone is intersted
[14:11] <kwwii> dobey: which one is that?
[14:11] <kwwii> dobey: oh, btw, I subscribed an icon-naming-utils bug to you today...your first ubuntu bug :-)
[14:12] <dobey> yeah, that's what i'm talking about
[14:12] <dobey> the link is there because evolution used stock_mail-priority-high
[14:12] <kwwii> dobey: yeah, no doubt...I guess the interface needs a rework
[14:12] <dobey> but really, users shouldn't be able to set arbitrary emblems for files
[14:13] <dobey> (tags are not emblems, also)
[14:13] <kwwii> especially because the _m in the name adds a hotkey to m
[14:13] <dobey> brb, i did nautilus --quit to test something the other day, so i need to log out/in
[14:13] <soren> asac: Yes, this is for Jaunty.
[14:17] <dobey> lovely
[14:17] <dobey> my desktop hard locked when i logged out :(
[14:23] <tseliot> kwwii, pitti: does the problem with dpi you were talking about have to do with point 13 of this page? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2009-01-20
[14:23] <tseliot> "Try not allowing GNOME Settings Deamon to force DPI of 96, even if overriding value in xorg.cof "
[14:26] <dobey> kwwii: http://wayofthemonkey.com/index.php?date=2008-06-11
[14:26] <dobey> kwwii: see the second half of that blog about tags vs. emblems :)
[14:27] <mvo> seb128: could you please sync gnome-codec-install from debian/experimental?
[14:27] <mvo> (bug #320046)
[14:27] <seb128> mvo: oh yes, sorry I forgot yesterday
[14:28] <mvo> seb128: no problem
[14:30] <pitti> vuntz: gnome bug 568845 FYI
[14:31] <kwwii> dobey: I agree completely with that
[14:31] <vuntz> pitti: yeah, was trying to open it already ;-)
[14:32] <dobey> kwwii: awesome
[14:33] <tseliot> kwwii: please see my question above
[14:33] <vuntz> pitti: I'll look at this at some point. Thanks for working on this!
[14:33] <pitti> vuntz: cheers; my first pet-bug for jaunty :)
[14:34] <dobey> ah man, DPI
[14:34] <kwwii> tseliot: I have no idea - /me just an art fag
[14:34] <dobey> the bane of X
[14:34] <tseliot> kwwii: ok
[14:35] <dobey> that really shouldn't be called DPI in gnome or X
[14:35] <dobey> it should be called "random integer value which somehow screws with the sizes of your fonts"
[14:36] <dobey> in fact, i think i will go file a bug about that label in gnome
[14:36] <tseliot> dobey: ok, let correct the documentation then ;)
[14:36] <tseliot> s/let/let's/
[14:36] <dobey> tseliot: if it was actually DPI, it would behave inverse of how it does now
[14:37] <dobey> increasing the dpi should make the fonts appear smaller, not larger
[14:37] <dobey> there shouldn't be a DPI setting anywhere
[14:37] <tseliot> I didn't know what the symptoms were. This is why I asked
[14:38] <dobey> because it's not like you can somehow magically change the DPI of your monitor
[14:38] <loic-m> dobey: isn't increasing the dpi done to correct the dpi so it matches your screen?
[14:38] <dobey> loic-m: no
[14:39] <dobey> i mean, that's probably the idea
[14:39] <dobey> but it is certainly not the behavior
[14:39] <pitti> seb128: looking at ls -lSr /usr/share/gconf/schemas/, would you mind if I do no-change uploads of nautilus, gnome-power-manager, and metacity, to move them to the new gconf translation system (for testing everything)
[14:39] <tseliot> but you can change what the driver thinks the DPI of your monitor is
[14:39] <loic-m> dobey: I though that was the purpose, since you have other means to make the font/icons bigger
[14:39] <pitti> seb128: well, of course I tested it locally, but large-scale testing -> better
[14:39] <dobey> loic-m: the DPI setting doesn't effect icons, only fonts
[14:40] <seb128> pitti: not at all, just curious but why those? is that for anything using gconf to try?
[14:40] <pitti> seb128: those three are amongst the worst offenders, i. e. their .schema files are biggest
[14:40] <loic-m> dobey: that's because the desktop doesn't have resolution-independence, no? Isn't that what should be fixed in the first place?
[14:40] <seb128> pitti: ie if you have a doubt about breaking things maybe try a random application rather than something running in the standard session
[14:40] <pitti> seb128: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gconf/+bug/123025/comments/4
[14:41] <pitti> seb128: I don't have doubts about breaking nautilus, I tested that locally
[14:41] <dobey> tseliot: well you can change your resolution to something smaller, and use more of those dots on your monitor to represent 1 dot, but you can't really somehow really make it think the dpi is different
[14:41] <seb128> pitti: ok just upload then ;-)
[14:41] <pitti> seb128: but nautilus alone saves us .5 MB .deb size alone, plus another .5 MB in /var on the desktop CD
[14:41] <dobey> loic-m: not really, i think the dpi setting is more an artifact of before Xorg was smart, and because way back in the day monitors were mostly 75dpi, though there were some that were 96dpi
[14:41] <pitti> seb128: after three days of working on this stuff, I'd like to have something to show off ;)
[14:42] <seb128> pitti: do any change you want
[14:42] <pitti> seb128: okay, thanks
[14:42] <dobey> loic-m: these days, X just probes the monitor and gets the value via DDC or whatever
[14:42] <pitti> seb128: (new gconf uploaded, btw)
[14:42] <seb128> pitti: I'm working on intrepid for now
[14:42] <seb128> pitti: thanks
[14:42] <pitti> oh, how come?
[14:42] <dobey> loic-m: ie, "xdpyinfo|grep -i resolution" will give you the screen's resolution, not whatever you set in gconf/xorg.conf
[14:43] <seb128> pitti: doing backports for the samba browsing issue which is broken since hardy
[14:43] <seb128> pitti: the plan is to backport to intrepid now and later to hardy
[14:44] <pitti> ooooh
[14:44] <dobey> loic-m: in fact, i have the gconf setting set to something like 65 DPI
[14:44]  * pitti hugs seb128
[14:44]  * seb128 hugs pitti
[14:44] <dobey> which would mean I should have really huge fonts, if it were actually anything like DPI
[14:44] <tseliot> dobey: well, you can decide whether to use the EDID to compute the DPI of the X screen or not
[14:45] <dobey> tseliot: well it doesn't really matter
[14:45] <dobey> tseliot: your monitors native resolution will never change
[14:45] <tseliot> dobey: there's no doubt about that
[14:47] <dobey> so having some magical configuration is just silly
[14:47] <dobey> because it obviously isn't going to change the hardware
[14:48] <dobey> it should JFW already
[14:54] <loic-m> dobey: there's still time where the monitor has faulty info (I get the problem on a laptop) so the DPI is nice to have. If we want to use the DPI to make the fonts look bigger, shouldn't we use something else?
[14:55] <dobey> if you want to make the fonts look bigger, you should increase the font size i think
[14:55] <loic-m> dobey: The objective would be to have _all_ screens show a 12 font the same size, whetever the DPI, then people that want bigger fonts/icons just say so (and chose to +# the fonts, or set them manually
[14:56] <dobey> ugh
[14:59] <loic-m> s/whetever/whatever
[15:02] <kwwii> indeed point sizes are definite (1/72" is one point)
[15:06] <mvo> pitti: hi, what creates /var/crash? if i install apport in a jaunty pbuilder chroot it is not there
[15:07] <seb128> vuntz: do you do lot of backporting in opensuse? do you know if somebody backported federico fileselector changes to the current stable there?
[15:17] <vuntz> seb128: which changes?
[15:30] <seb128> vuntz: gnome bug #558776
[15:44] <fta2> seb128, could you please have a look at https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/242244  I'm not sure where to assign it
[15:52] <pitti> mvo: heh, dpkg -S /var/crash says "update-notifier-common" :)
[15:52] <mvo> pitti: heh :)
[15:52] <pitti> mvo: but usually it is apport's init script
[15:53] <pitti> ./debian/apport.init:[ -e /var/crash ] || mkdir -p /var/crash
[15:53] <pitti> ./debian/apport.init:        chmod 1777 /var/crash
[15:53] <pitti> mvo: (sorry, was on a phone call)
[15:53] <mvo> pitti: right, thanks, that is fine, that expains why its not there in the chroot
[15:53] <pitti> mvo: if it helps you, I just stuff it into the package
[15:54] <mvo> its fine, I was just curious why it was missing there
[15:59] <seb128> fta2: talk to asac, this change is distro specific and has been added because firefox users were complaining about something
[16:00] <fta2> asac, ^^
[16:00] <seb128> fta2: I think the issue was than opening new tabs was moving firefox to your current workspace otherwise or something
[16:00] <seb128> than -> that
[16:00] <vuntz> seb128: we have some patch for this, but I'm not sure it's wroking well
[16:01] <fta2> seb128, imho, the current behavior is seriously broken
[16:01] <seb128> fta2: I think so too but asac made it look like all firefox users would hate us otherwise
[16:02] <fta2> asac, bad asac!
[16:02] <seb128> vuntz: could be the same patch as we have ;-)
[16:06] <asac> fedora has the same i think
[16:06] <asac> gtk has to provide an easy utility function to figure whether the window is on current active desktop or not
[16:07] <asac> so ffox can either call present or something else depending on that
[16:07] <asac> asking all apps to implement that isnt right. i think gedit does implement it and that code should be factored out somewhere so others can use it too
[16:12] <fta2> that won't fix the bug in years :(
[16:14] <asac> i think compiz behaviour is similar to metacity (it was metacity that changed here)
[16:15] <asac> window managers should agree imo if the toolkit doesnt provide a proper abstraction from that.
[16:15] <asac> anyway, i was not the one who didnt like firefox to zoom to current desktop
[16:20] <asac> but let me think abit about it again ... maybe i have other ideas now :) (completely forgot about this topic)
[16:43] <fta2> asac, should I assign the bug to you then?
[17:12] <seb128> pitti: do you have a minute to discuss a bug I want to fix in hardy?
[17:12] <seb128> pitti: bug #236953
[17:12] <seb128> pitti: the issue was a gvfs and http://svn.gnome.org/viewvc/gvfs?view=revision&revision=1974 fixes it
[17:13] <seb128> the change is non trivial though
[17:13] <seb128> pitti: other opinion is http://svn.gnome.org/viewvc/gedit/trunk/gedit/gedit.c?view=patch&r1=6516&r2=6515&pathrev=6516 which is a workaround
[17:13] <seb128> opinion -> option
[17:14] <seb128> pitti: do you think we should try the gvfs fix (it got tested in intrepid and might fix similar issues in some other softwares though gvfs is not used that much in hardy) or rather go with the workaround?
[17:16] <crevette> thanks seb128 to have include the extensive upstream changelog in the gtk update
[17:17] <seb128> crevette: is that an ironic comment? ;-)
[17:17] <crevette> no no no
[17:18] <crevette> I know this is not always easy to paste it, usually I have to format the sentences to fit well
[17:20] <crevette> wonderful epiphany depends on gtk-2.15.1
[17:20] <seb128> there is no such tarball yet
[17:21] <crevette> yeah I know, I'm asking on #epiphany
[17:23] <kwwii> hrm, which package is missing when I get this error: debian/rules:5: /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/debhelper.mk: No such file or directory
[17:23] <kwwii> when running debuild
[17:23] <pitti> seb128: eww for the gvfs patch...
[17:23] <seb128> pitti: ok, you are for the gedit workaround too ;-)
[17:23] <pitti> seb128: the gedit one seems much safer?
[17:24] <seb128> yeah, I'm not sure why I asked, that seemed obvious to me too ;-)
[17:24] <pitti> seb128: so currently it is impossible to use ssh locations with gedit? it alwasy crashes? or just sometimes?
[17:24] <pitti> if it isn't that bad, then we perhaps shouldn't fix it in an SRU at all
[17:24] <seb128> pitti: when you play with the fileselector buttonbar to switch between directories it often crash
[17:25] <seb128> pitti: some users complained because it crashes with their modifications when they try to pick a directory where to save their work
[17:26] <pitti> seb128: right, for an editor that's especially bad
[17:26] <seb128> pitti: let's do the one liner workaround
[17:26] <pitti> I wouldn't be too concerned if it sometimes crashes nautilus, for example, since that will just restart itself and not damage documents
[17:26] <pitti> seb128: right
[17:26]  * pitti hugs the Gnome"fixit"minator
[17:27]  * seb128 hugs SRUapprovator ;-)
[17:38] <didrocks> Gnome"fixit"minator, SRUapprovator… quoted ^^
[17:44] <crevette> can someone confirm  that browsing "Windows network" in network in nautilus spawn an error
[17:44] <crevette> in jaunty
[17:44] <seb128> no
[17:45] <crevette> I have a lot of messages "tdb(unnamed): tdb_open_ex: could not open file /var/run/samba/unexpected.tdb: Aucun fichier ou dossier de ce type"
[17:45] <rugby471> hi guys, I have a problem, we are trying to fix a bug in xsane (ugly menu icon) and so we have chnaged the xsane.desktop file to have
[17:45] <rugby471> Icon=scanner
[17:45] <rugby471> rather than
[17:45] <rugby471> Icon=xsane
[17:46] <rugby471> this way it uses gnome-icon-theme's generic scanner icon
[17:46] <rugby471> however a tester is having a problem
[17:46] <rugby471> he has gnome-icon-theme installed, we can even see the scanner icon in the crrcet directory
[17:46] <rugby471> however it comes up with the gtk-0missing-image
[17:46] <rugby471> icon in the menu
[17:46] <rugby471> anyhelp?
[17:54] <seb128> re
[17:54] <seb128> crevette: what do you do exactly to get the error?
[17:54] <crevette> seb128: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gvfs/+bug/320547
[17:55] <crevette> I don't know if could be an upstream bug
[17:55] <seb128> crevette: could you open it on bugzilla too?
[17:55] <crevette> okay
[17:55] <seb128> crevette: it's for sure an upstream bug we have to patch to that code in jaunty
[17:55] <seb128> crevette: does smbclient works correctly?
[18:03] <crevette> seb128: do you know what are the switch to put to mimic gvfs ? I did a -L -W WORKGROUP -N but I am not sure this is good
[18:23] <seb128> crevette: use smbtree to browse the network
[18:25] <crevette> smbtree doesn't spawn error
[18:29] <seb128> does it list your workgroups and machines correctly?
[18:38] <crevette> I have no server active now
[18:38] <crevette> but even without server I surprised it spawn an error
[18:38] <crevette> I'll start it now, and see what happen
[18:38] <crevette> it = my server
[18:41] <asomething> seb128: Hi, I've got e-d-s packaged (Bug #320299) but ran into a problem with evo (Bug #320329)
[18:41] <asomething> seb128: for some reason the lp integration patch makes evo FTBFS, but it looks fine to me. I don't get it....
[18:43] <seb128> asomething: hi, I was looking at your eds upgrade, there is some issues
[18:44] <asomething> seb128: ya, i haven't tested at all since evo isn't building
[18:44] <asomething> seb128: let me know and i'll clean it up
[18:44] <seb128> asomething: there is no soname change in this version, not sure why you did one on the binaries
[18:46] <asomething> configure.in shows shows version bumps
[18:47] <asomething> seb128: i don't have much experience packaging libs, so this is a bot of a learning experience for me
[18:48] <seb128> asomething: that's a good exercise ;-)
[18:48] <seb128> asomething: the soname is the number after the .so in the installed library
[18:49] <seb128> asomething: evolution-data-server-2.25.5/debian/tmp/usr/lib/libebook-1.2.so.9.2.0 for example is libebook1.2-9
[18:50] <asomething> seb128: i assumed that if the FOO_CURRENT=# changed in configure.in the soname changes
[18:50] <seb128> asomething: the soname is basically current -age numbers
[18:52] <seb128> asomething: to request sponsoring you can subscribe ubuntu-main,universe-sponsors to the bug
[18:53] <asomething> seb128: ya, i din't want to subscribe sponsors untill I had both ready
[18:53] <seb128> asomething: http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer/column/libpkg-guide/libpkg-guide.html if you want details about packaging libraries
[18:54] <seb128> asomething: the evolution build issue, it seems the configure is not correctly updated, what did you do to update the autoconf changes?
[18:54] <asomething> seb128: I ran autoreconf
[18:55] <seb128> asomething: where? in the source? or you use cdbs-edit-patch to update it?
[18:56] <seb128> asomething: it seems than the lpi changes were not applied when you ran autoconf which leads to the error
[18:57] <asomething> seb128: i think i see now, the lpi patch wasn't actually applied yet when autoreconf was run
[18:57]  * pochu waves!
[18:58] <asomething> seb128: thanks for the pointers, i should get this done pretty soon
[18:59] <pochu> asac: know what? I've found another broken thread, but this time it's not TB's fault. Looks like GMail is mangling the References when they contain "[]" ;)
[18:59] <pochu> (I think the mangled mail was sent using GMail, but am not sure)
[19:01] <seb128> hey pochu
[19:01] <pochu> hi seb128 :)
[19:01] <seb128> asomething: thank you for the work, that's quite some comments and things to learn in the same time so if you have question feel free to ask details
[19:01] <pochu> bah, gtg
[19:01] <pochu> bbl
[19:02] <seb128> pochu: you basically need to undo your soname changes for e-d-s and update the breaks version so e-d-s and evo are updated in the same run for users, otherwise the e-d-s upgrade would break evolution
[19:02] <seb128> ups
[19:02] <seb128> asomething: ^ the comment is for you
[19:03] <asomething> seb128: got it, =)
[19:03] <seb128> asomething: not sure how you edit the autoconf patch but go in the source directory, run cdbs-edit-patch patchname, run autoconf, remove the .cache directory it creates and exi
[19:04] <seb128> exi -> exit
[19:04] <seb128> when closing the cdbs-edit-patch environment the patch is updated
[19:04] <seb128> if the previous version doesn't apply just move it away before running cdbs-edit-patch
[19:09] <asac> pochu: did the patch work for you?
[19:35] <pochu> asac: I tried to applied to TB 2 but didn't build
[19:35] <pochu> asac: well, Icedove 2 ;)
[19:37] <asac> heh
[19:37] <asac> pochu: did it apply cleanly?
[19:39] <pochu> asac: nope
[19:40] <pochu> asac: http://pastebin.com/f68536176
[19:40] <pochu> asac: it failed because of the getter_Copies() argument IIRC
[19:41] <pochu> asac: if you want I can build it again and paste you the error.
[19:42] <asac> pochu: search for GetMessageId
[19:42] <asac> in the file
[19:42] <asac> there probably is other use of it
[19:42] <asac> and you should find the right pattern
[19:42] <asac> or wait
[19:42] <asac> let mec heck ;)
[19:43] <asac> pochu: on 1.8 brach they seem to use nsXPIDLCString messageId;
[19:43] <asac>  isntad of nsCString
[19:43] <asac> give that a try
[19:44] <asac> the GetMessageId invokation stays the same then
[19:44] <pochu> yeah that was one of the suggestion from the compiler
[19:44] <asac> likd http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla1.8/source/mailnews/db/msgdb/src/nsMsgHdr.cpp#803
[19:44] <asac> pochu: ^^
[19:44] <asac> ;)
[19:44] <asac> like there
[19:44] <pochu> cool :)
[19:44]  * pochu tries that
[19:45] <asac> but i think maybe we should really fix the threading algo
[19:45] <asac> so even already indexed stuff gets fixed
[19:45] <asac> but well ... in this way all new mail gets fixed
[19:45] <asac> or removing .msf index caches
[19:45] <pochu> is it safe to remove those?
[19:46] <pochu> ok, building
[19:47] <maxb> It loses message flagging and view settings, IIRC
[19:47] <maxb> at the very least
[19:48] <pochu> I don't use flags for bugmail :)
[19:48] <pochu> there's also the possibility to rebuild the index, I guess
[19:48] <pochu> in the folder properties
[19:50] <maxb> safer
[19:59] <asac> pochu: i think its safe ;) ... but better backup your profile
[19:59] <asac> i think for imap it will redownload stuff ... for pop and so on it will recreate the indexes
[20:21] <pochu> oh noes!
[20:21] <pochu> fscking lintian!!
[20:22] <pochu> so, I have a hook to run lintian after the build in pbuilder, and it exits with nonzero when it finds a lintian error
[20:22] <pochu> and that makes pbuilder fail the build and not save the .debs!
[20:22] <asac> pochu: rebuild index i dont know ... compact folder soes something similar
[20:22] <asac> but not everything i think
[20:22] <asac> pochu: bad pbuilder ;)
[20:23] <asac> use a dedicated chroot ;)
[20:24] <pochu> hehe
[21:23] <pochu> asac: \o/
[21:24] <pochu> asac: http://emilio.pozuelo.org/~deb/bz474790_reference_itself_breaks_threading, feel free to apply it to icedove/tb2 ;)
[21:25] <asac> cool ;)
[21:25] <asac> i will wait on upstream decision ...
[21:26] <pochu> fine
[21:26] <pochu> I hope the launchpad folks fix this soon
[21:34] <seb128> crevette: there?
[21:34] <crevette> yep
[21:35] <crevette> playing with my wii
[21:35] <crevette> :)
[21:35] <seb128> what game? ;-)
[21:35] <seb128> crevette: you still want to do the nautilus-sendto changes?
[21:36] <crevette> pperhaps tomorrow morning
[21:36] <crevette> seb128: why?
[21:36] <seb128> crevette: just to know if I should try to find somebody interested in that or if you are
[21:36] <seb128> crevette: no hurry ;-)
[21:37] <crevette> I need to check out the comments you did yesterday
[21:38] <seb128> crevette: basically rename the source to nautilus-sendto-universe, make it build everything and ship only the things which are not in nautilus-sendto in a nautilus-sendto-universe binary
[21:39] <seb128> so having nautilus-sendto and nautilus-sendto-universe installed would be similar to have a normal install
[21:41] <Nafallo> haha!
[21:42] <Nafallo> seb128: are you still discussing that since yesterday? :-D
[21:42] <seb128> Nafallo: not still but again rather ;-)
[21:42] <Nafallo> seb128: thank god :-)
[21:42] <Nafallo> haha
[21:42] <seb128> I was just giving a gently reminder to crevette before running away from IRC and work for the weekend ;-)
[21:43] <Nafallo> seb128: tsss :-)
[21:43] <seb128> anyway enough for today, see you next week everybody
[21:43] <crevette> see you
[21:45] <crevette> okay bon week
[21:45] <seb128> see you later
[21:45] <crevette> end
[21:45] <seb128> to you too ;-)
[22:20] <chrisccoulson> hey crevette - thanks for the advice regarding the ntfs-3g version numbering scheme change yesterday
[22:21] <chrisccoulson> i spoke with the upstream debian maintainer and sorted it out
[22:22] <crevette> chrisccoulson: how did he solved that?
[22:22] <crevette> (hello by the way)
[22:22] <chrisccoulson> he's not incrementing the epoch for the new version when he packages it, because "2009" is greater than "1".
[22:22] <chrisccoulson> it's a good job i asked, because I was going to assume that he would increment it
[22:23] <crevette> ok sounds normal then
[22:25] <chrisccoulson> yeah, it's pretty reasonable. the upstream maintainer of ntfs-3g is quite keen for us to ship the new version now, as we ship a really old version and ubuntu users keep reporting problems upstream that have been fixed several releases ago.
[22:26] <crevette> hey andreasn
[22:26] <andreasn> hi crevette
[22:26] <crevette> sad news I can't change the statusbar shadow, the property is read only in gtk
[22:27] <crevette> it's up to the theme to implement the statusbar looking, I don't understand the rationale for that :/
[22:30] <andreasn> oh
[22:30] <andreasn> not much to do I guess
[22:31] <crevette> yeah, except rewriting a custom statusbar for gtk
[22:31] <andreasn> how does f-spot do it? is it just that it doesn't use a regular statusbar?
[22:31] <crevette> wich is out of my capabilities
[22:32] <crevette> I guess this is not a Gtkstatusbar but a widget derivated from it (my coding fu is near zero, so this is justguess)
[22:32] <andreasn> ok
[22:32] <Amaranth> cp gtkstatusbar.[c-h] ~/myproject ;)
[22:33] <andreasn> hehe
[22:37] <dobey> statusbar doesn't have shadows
[22:40] <crevette>  the border is not a shadow ?
[22:43] <dobey> it sets a shadow type to SHADOW_IN that is drawn by the parent widget type, which is a GtkHBox, from what i can see
[22:50] <dobey> actually looking at the code, i'm not sure /where/ that rectangle with SHADOW_IN gets drawn really
[22:54] <andreasn> dobey, hello, my favorite gnome-icon-theme maintainer
[22:54] <dobey> hi andreasn
[22:54] <andreasn> :)
[22:54] <dobey> what's up?
[22:55] <andreasn> as jimmac said it was ok to relicense his parts of tango-icon-theme (still fixing the metadata stuff btw), would it be ok to use the same spinner icon in gnome-icon-theme as well?
[22:56] <andreasn> mpt bugged me about it again :)
[22:56] <andreasn> and that would fix http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=558367
[22:57] <dobey> andreasn: if he wants to make it PD, then sure i guess, go for it
[22:57] <andreasn> cool, I'll put it in svn then
[22:57] <dobey> bbiab
[23:29] <pochu> reading launchpad bugmail in threads is just *awesome*


[12:05] <mindspin> I was thinking about standing as "fun candidate" but I won't ruin my social life and reality has overtaken any satirical approach
[12:05] <mindspin> I will argue in a more Open source in general attitude
[01:29] <sladen> hmmm, the gobby story sucked, seems nobody else checked it over
[02:24] <dotwaffle> Hmmm... This Ubuntu book is very wordy about the creation of Ubuntu... Interesting to geeks, yes, but is it the intended market?
[02:30] <poningru> dotwaffle: which book is it?
[02:30] <poningru> there are many that were published
[02:30] <dotwaffle> The latest one. The "comes with a DVD, and written by Mako, Jono et al@
[02:30] <poningru> ah
[02:30] <poningru> Burgundavia here is corey burger
[02:30] <poningru> err
[02:31] <dotwaffle> yuo
[02:31] <dotwaffle> yup
[02:31] <dotwaffle> it's a good book, mark my words, very interesting to those interested in the history... It just seems to be that the first 30 or 40 pages contain far too much waffleage about where Ubuntu comes from.
[02:33] <poningru> well that stuff is important
[02:34] <poningru> because ubuntu isnt just a gnu/linux based os, its also an idea
[02:34] <dotwaffle> important, yes, but does it suit the purpose of the book?
[02:34] <poningru> ofcourse
[02:35] <poningru> anyway I cannot justify the book any more than a random guy.... talk to one of the authors through email etc.
[02:35] <dotwaffle> I have...
[02:36] <dotwaffle> I think it's a good book, well written, and perfect for someone who is new to Ubuntu with that geek bent.
[02:37] <dotwaffle> I'm just saying, if it were trimmed down to say... 100 pages, with only 2 or 3 pages on the history, maybe it would be more applicable.
[02:43] <dotwaffle> Either way, it should sell well
[03:05] <grasshopper> hi Madpilot
[03:05] <Madpilot> hi grasshopper
[03:06] <grasshopper> Madpilot: got that leaflet ^^
[03:06] <grasshopper> wanna print and laminate it
[03:06] <Madpilot> haven't done the customization for you yet, but give me 10min and I'll have it done.
[03:07] <grasshopper> Madpilot: kewl...
[03:07] <Madpilot> do you want an SVG, or a big PNG?
[03:07] <grasshopper> errr...not sure
[03:08] <grasshopper> svg maybe?
[03:08] <grasshopper> is that printable?
[03:12] <Madpilot> usually, from Inkscape
[03:13] <grasshopper> and png?
[03:13] <grasshopper> as long as it fits on A4
[03:15] <Madpilot> It's designed to fit on North American 8.5x11, which is close to A4 but slightly different.
[03:15] <Madpilot> http://ubuntu-ca.org/Ubuntu_Pamphletv2.svg
[03:16] <Madpilot> SVG, with your info under Local Contacts at the very bottom
[03:18] <grasshopper> thx, Madpilot
[03:18] <Madpilot> Gigantic PNG: http://ubuntu-ca.org/Ubuntu_Pamphletv2.png
[03:18] <Madpilot> it really is big - 1.6Mb
[03:19] <grasshopper> woah!
[03:19] <grasshopper> is this a poster?
[03:20] <Madpilot> no, it's a 300dpi image, for high quality printing
[03:20] <Madpilot> so it's massive
[03:21] <Madpilot> and Inkscape outputs high quality but non-optimized PNGs, so they're always big
[03:26] <grasshopper> is the png also A4?
[03:27] <Madpilot> neither of them is, they're both 8.5x11
[03:33] <grasshopper> got two back copies printed
[03:33] <grasshopper> must be doin something wrong
[03:33] <Madpilot> back copies?
[03:35] <grasshopper> *black
[03:37] <Madpilot> from the SVG or the png?
[03:37] <grasshopper> png
[03:37] <grasshopper> couldn'tg print from inkspace
[03:38] <grasshopper> epson stylus  photo rx425 should work
[03:38] <Madpilot> odd. it's a standard PNG, it should work
[03:38] <grasshopper> but havent really printed in color much so don't know
[04:47] <grasshopper>  Madpilot look slike i'll need to copy it to disk and take it somewhere to print . Does png translate to whatever people use out there, do  you know?
[04:47] <Madpilot> that depends on the shop you go to.
[04:47] <Madpilot> you might want to convert it to jpg in the GIMP, everyone knows what a jpg is.
[04:47] <grasshopper> most shops dont use Ubuntu as far as i know :)
[04:48] <Madpilot> PNG isn't a Ubuntu-only thing
[04:48] <grasshopper> k
[04:48] <Madpilot> phone around, someone might be able to grok PNG
[04:48] <grasshopper> Madpilot: joking, but is in'tit a linux thing only
[04:48] <Madpilot> then you won't risk loosing quality when you convert the PNG to jpg
[04:49] <Madpilot> no, Windows apps can create png
[04:49] <grasshopper> ok, well, in that case
[04:49] <grasshopper> darn printer
[04:49] <grasshopper> another wast of money
[04:51] <grasshopper> damn expensie cartridges, on top of that i don't get my print
[04:51] <Madpilot> in Inkscape, go File->Print, make sure it says "| lp" in the Print Destination box, then try to print the SVG again
[04:53] <grasshopper> Madpilot: does the size in png matter (zoomin in and out) or is the print fixed no matter what the apparent size
[04:53] <Madpilot> print it so it fills an 8.5x11 (or a4) sheet, and it'll be right
[04:55] <grasshopper>  print as bitmap?
[04:56] <grasshopper> or print using postscript operators
[04:56] <Madpilot> try that, move dpi up to 300 and it should print properly
[04:56] <Madpilot> Inkscape's printing is a bit of a black art, try several things and see what works.
[04:59] <grasshopper> inkscape still not printin
[04:59] <Madpilot> gah
[05:00] <Madpilot> does your printer work in other Linux apps?
[05:00] <grasshopper>  has done, for printing the printed word :(
[05:00] <grasshopper>  openoffice
[05:02] <poningru> hehe
[05:04] <Madpilot> printing in LInux is a f'ing mess, to be honest
[05:05] <grasshopper> well, that is a shame
[05:05] <grasshopper> its kinda a big part of the home desktop experience these days, with photos and all
[05:05] <Madpilot> true
[05:05] <grasshopper> Its printing now as a jpg!!!
[05:05] <Madpilot> from which app?
[05:06] <grasshopper> i sved it as jpg from gimp to /home/user_name opened it with default viewer, (same as for the png) and printed
[05:08] <grasshopper> ok, the colors don't look as true as on the computer. Much less orange but if you don't  know then you don't know the diference or the original. And its printed fine
[05:08] <Madpilot> but the png didn't work that way?
[05:09] <grasshopper> Madpilot: no, thats right, png didn't work that way
[05:09] <Madpilot> strange
[05:09] <grasshopper> got two sheets filled with precious black ink to prove it
[05:09] <grasshopper> Madpilot: the personal details at the bottom are too small actually
[05:10] <grasshopper> Madpilot: do you not use A4 paper in the US?
[05:11] <Madpilot> North America uses 8.5inches by 11inches as standard (Letter size)
[05:11] <grasshopper> i've got margins left on all sides, which i'll need to cut
[05:11] <grasshopper> weird
[05:11] <Madpilot> most printers can't actually do edge-to-edge printing
[05:12] <grasshopper> Madpilot: its just if it was stretched out to A4 it would be perfect in terms of the size of the script
[05:13] <Madpilot> if you load the SVG in Inkscape, you can bump the size of the text
[05:13] <grasshopper> its ok, just about, but especially the local contact section is a bit small. Looks like a legal disclaimer one is not supposed to notice
[05:14] <grasshopper> Madpilot: k
[05:14] <grasshopper> its very pleasing to see it on print though
[05:15] <grasshopper> Madpilot: hey, you didn't change the grammatical error in the Evolution paragraph :D
[05:15] <Madpilot> which one was that?
[05:16] <grasshopper> Evlolution 'can also' not 'also can'
[05:20] <Madpilot> fixed - want the updated SVG, or did you edit your copy already?
[05:21] <grasshopper> Madpilot: yes, give me the update, please
[05:21] <Madpilot> just a mo
[05:23] <Madpilot> fixed. http://ubuntu-ca.org/Ubuntu_Pamphletv2.svg
[05:25] <grasshopper> Madpilot ave you printed one off yet?
[05:25] <Madpilot> my printer is currently out of ink, haven't bought new cartridges yet
[05:25] <grasshopper> hehe
[05:26] <grasshopper> what printer do you have?
[05:30] <Madpilot> an HP 5740, which does work from Inkscape, usually
[05:30] <grasshopper> Don't know that model, but HP do nice quality pics, although those cartridges are pricey
[05:32] <grasshopper> Madpilot: its definitely come out much more pink and red than orange and apricot as it does on my computer
[05:32] <Madpilot> colour management is fun
[05:32] <grasshopper> well, i expect the computer to just reproduce what is being printed off the screen
[06:00] <Madpilot> grasshopper, you're an optimist ;)
[06:08] <grasshopper> Madpilot: true! :p
[06:09] <Madpilot> slightly more seriously, colour management is even more arcane than printers on Linux...
[06:12] <grasshopper> Madpilot: sounds like an area that really needs catching up then
[06:13] <Madpilot> colour management on Windows and in full-blown commercial printing is arcane too, this isn't just a Linux problem
[06:13] <grasshopper> oh, well, in that case then ^^
[06:19] <grasshopper> by the way gimp doesn't open .svg here
[06:19] <grasshopper> Madpilot: if yoiu could send me teh editeed version in png
[06:19] <Madpilot> GIMP can't open SVG for anyone. That's what Inkscape is for.
[06:20] <grasshopper> want to convert to jpg
[06:20] <Madpilot> in inkscape, File->Export Bitmap
[06:23] <Madpilot> http://ubuntu-ca.org/Ubuntu_Pamphletv2.png
[06:25] <grasshopper> thx Madpilot, i've done it through inksapce now anyways but good to have nonetheless
[06:25] <Madpilot> np
[06:29] <poningru> Madpilot: speaking of which any experience in converting a png to a vector?
[06:29] <poningru> err svg
[06:29] <Madpilot> converting SVG to vector? SVG is a vector format already
[06:29] <Madpilot> Png->SVG is possible thru Inkscape, but hard to do well
[06:31] <poningru> right
[06:31] <poningru> the latter
[06:32] <poningru> yeah I have tried experimenting but it came out like crap everytime
[06:32] <poningru> too blurry, no outline etc.
[06:32] <grasshopper> Madpilot: this time it didn't print. came out all black again. Just grateful one did come out, even if does have that dodgy sentence
[06:33] <Madpilot> crap...  Have I mentioned that already?
[06:45] <grasshopper> Madpilot: i have a button on my printer 'fit to Page' but it hasn't done it
[06:45] <grasshopper> yea, you did  :)
[07:02] <grasshopper> Madpilot: well, that is two copies printed and laminated ready to go
[07:02] <grasshopper> Madpilot: thx, amigo
[07:02] <Madpilot> no problem
[07:02] <Madpilot> aren't printers fun?
[07:02] <grasshopper> no, i hate them  8-)
[07:03] <grasshopper> ready to hit the sack, 6 am here
[09:38] <jenda> sladen: ping
[12:46] <sladen> jenda: pong
[01:25] <jenda> sladen: wanted to ask if it would be possible to have a fridge entry in about a month from now about Ubuntu posters being shipped out worldwide.
[01:26] <jenda> I will lose big money if I sell less than 200 :( (won't gain any money till about 350 posters)
[01:27] <jenda> elkbuntu: check your inbox :) kudos from silbs
[01:28] <elkbuntu> :)
[01:29] <elkbuntu> i personally doubt you'll be stuck with that few.. there's so many lugs and enthusiasts who are going to want this sort of stuff
[01:42] <sladen> jenda: absolutely no problem.
[01:42] <sladen> jenda: Canonical and ubuntu are separate;  remember that if you, as a community person want something then other people will to
[01:56] <jenda> sladen: thx
[03:47] <jono> hey
[09:39] <MitchM_> asleep elkbuntu?
[10:09] <ompaul> MitchM_, I think she is even wondering if she can make the meeting given it is 8am her time ;-)
[10:10] <MitchM_> so your saying.... she might be asleep?
[10:10] <MitchM_> =)


[02:00] <psusi> can someone tell me where Martin Farmer is in Ados City?  I was told to deliver him a pizza, but this town is huge and I can't find him
[02:01] <psusi> lol at Stichard Rallman
[09:56] <Luca1> Hi! I'm trying to use dual screen with Unity but as soon as the second screen is attached all the desktop result completely screwed up. I'm using ATI with opensource drivers (proprietary won't install). Is there anyone who knows of an already reported related bug? Should I report this myself?
[11:12] <c0nsaw> Hey people, I applied for a bug triage mentor during the week, is this facility still available, I haven't had any reply as of yet, thanks
[11:15] <yofel> vish: ^
[13:15] <Luca1> Hi! I'm trying to use dual screen with Unity but as soon as the second screen is attached all the desktop result completely screwed up. I'm using ATI with opensource drivers (proprietary won't install). Is there anyone who knows of an already reported related bug? Should I report this myself?
[13:15] <persia> Luca1, I suspect that nobody around knows the answer to that question.
[13:16] <persia> You might try searching for bugs on launchpad to see if you can find a similar one.
[13:16] <persia> If you can, check to make sure you have precisely the same issue before chiming in.
[13:16] <persia> If you have all the debug information collected, and are itching to post it, create a new bug, and then search: it's not hard to mark a bug as a duplicate if you discover it while searching.
[13:16] <Luca1> I already did that and found nothing. But I'm finding it quite difficult to find correct keywords for this issue.
[13:18] <Luca1> When I try to open the bugreport using ubuntu-bug I get a question that asks me if I was told precisely to report the bug. Should I say yes? Who should tell me I can report?
[13:18] <Luca1> Thanks for your help!
[13:18] <persia> I think you'll need to work on a more precise replacement for "completely screwed up".  While I don't know what is wrong, I do suspect that this phrase is unlikely to help someone else reproduce the issue.
[13:19] <persia> So, there's a tradeoff: if lots of folk file random bugs, people looking at bugs have less time to fix them (as they spend more time trying to understand them).  If nobody files bugs, then people don't know there are problems.
[13:20] <Luca1> In fact that is my problem. If I show you an image, could you be so kind to suggest a better definition?
[13:20] <persia> I generally only file bugs when I think I have a good description of the bug, can outline the expected and observed behaviour, and can describe how to reproduce it: I'm not sure that's the best model, but it's mine.
[13:22] <Luca1> I'm not native language, maybe someone could suggest a more correct description...
[13:22] <persia> Don't worry about the specific words, it's more about the level of detail.
[13:22] <Luca1> this is where I asked the first time, there is a screenshot: http://askubuntu.com/questions/44304/screen-completely-screwed-up-when-in-dual-screen-in-unity
[13:23] <persia> So, are there bands across the screen?  Do you have snow?  Are images rendering improperly?  Does the screen implode?
[13:24] <persia> Given the image you posted, I'd suggest describing the resolution of both monitors, and attempting to describe the black areas (can windows be moved there, or are they just wasted space), the overlap on the background, etc.
[13:25] <Luca1> It depends, sometimes I get only black lines alternated to white lines. Other times I have a situation like that I linked. More often a combination of the two. Almost always I get a combination of these effects.
[13:25] <persia> You also say "some other times only lines could be seen": it's important to describe the sorts of lines, whether they are moving, etc.
[13:25] <Luca1> Ok, so I'll state all of this in the report. Thank you very much.
[13:26] <persia> Right.  Describe the effects in detail.  I don't know that much about this particular area, but the more precise you can get about the observed issues (not just appearance, but also behaviour), the more likely someone familiar will understand the underlying issue.
[13:26] <persia> Good luck.
[13:27] <Luca1> Thanks for your help! Could you even be so kind as to suggest a possible subject for the report? As you said, screwed up is not quite descriptive and effective.
[13:28] <JoshuaL> Desktop results distored when attaching second screen?
[13:28] <JoshuaL> something like that
[13:28] <persia> I'm not sure.  "Apredictive rendering irregularities with ATI (whatever)" is the same as "screwed up" but looks different though.
[13:28] <JoshuaL> or garbled
[13:28] <JoshuaL> or that
[13:29] <persia> JoshuaL, Good suggestion!
[13:29] <Luca1> very good! Thanks for the assistance!
[13:31] <JoshuaL> Can someone confirm and/or set the importance of bug 771983 to low?
[13:31] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 771983 in indicator-me (Ubuntu) "Sometimes I am unable to type in the "Post to.." input field. (affects: 1) (heat: 158)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/771983
[13:31] <persia> JoshuaL, Why "Low"?
[13:33] <JoshuaL> persia, it has an easy work-around by just opening gwibber and posting the message there, its only a little usability issue
[13:33] <JoshuaL> persia, and it does not bother me that much (its my own bug report)
[13:36] <persia> JoshuaL, Set to "Low".  I always ask to just make sure folk have a shared understanding of "Importance".  I don't use gwibber, so I can't confirm.
[13:37] <JoshuaL> ok
[13:37] <JoshuaL> persia, thanks :)
[16:38] <penguin42> anyone know what to do with bugs that are oops's in ndiswrapper?
[17:53] <hggdh> penguin42: AFAIR you have to open a bug on the ndiswrapper ML
[17:54] <hggdh> since all that it does is wrap around Windows binaries
[17:55] <hggdh> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=93482&atid=604450
[17:55] <penguin42> I guess it's difficult to know if the bug is in ndiswrapper itself or the windows driver
[17:56] <hggdh> it is, even more with the interfacing
[17:57] <hggdh> so -- when I was actually using ndiswrapper -- we would consider it a possible ndiswrapper emulation issue to star with
[17:57] <hggdh> then, if needed, a kernel bug would be opened
[17:57] <persia> If it is possible to OOPS ndiswrapper, that's a bug in ndiswrapper: note that it may be *caused* by a bug in the windows driver, but ndiswrapper should be trapping those and failing gracefully.
[17:57] <hggdh> yep
[17:58] <persia> The same logic applies to all "Is this a bug in the application or the library" questions: the answer is nearly always "both".
[18:24] <duncan-nz> I need someone running LibreOffice in Ubuntu 11.04 to check something for me. If you have the units under 'Options > Draw > General' set to cm, are your page dimensions under 'Format > Page' still set to inches?
[18:24] <duncan-nz> Please PM me if you also see this bug.
[18:48] <persia> duncan-nz, I don't seem to have an "Options" menu.  I'm happy to check, if you could provide a bit more guidance.
[18:51] <JoshuaL> question, a little while ago i reported bug 754825, someone from broadcom said that a fix for that problem had been submitted to Greg KH's staging-next tree. Shouldnt that bug be set to triaged instead of confirmed?
[18:51] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 754825 in linux (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Kernel panic while using my system [brcm80211] [assertion "scb->magic == SCB_MAGIC"] (affects: 3) (heat: 91)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/754825
[18:51] <duncan-nz> Try under 'Tools > Options' it should be at the bottom.
[18:53] <JoshuaL> And can someone set the importance of bug 754840 to low please, it has a simple workaround and its only a little usability issue.
[18:53] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 754840 in linux (Ubuntu) "Have to switch manually between audio output connectors (affects: 3) (dups: 1) (heat: 101)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/754840
[18:54] <persia> duncan-nz, OK.  I found tools...Options.  I can't find Draw under that.
[18:56] <persia> JoshuaL, Bug 754840 set to "Low": you may want to note somewhere that this appears to be a "Jack detect" issue (assuming the problem is that it doesn't switch when you insert the plug for the speakers, and you are using audio cables for the speakers, rather than USB, etc.)
[18:56] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 754840 in linux (Ubuntu) "[HP Pavilion dv6 Notebook PCHave to switch manually between audio output connectors (affects: 3) (dups: 1) (heat: 24)" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/754840
[18:57] <JoshuaL> persia, yeah I believe its an jack detect issue indeed, im indeed using speakers with a audio cabel.
[18:57] <JoshuaL> persia, i will change the description and say it is an jack detect issue
[18:57] <duncan-nz> There should be a section called LibreOffice Draw, open that and then click on the section 'General'.
[18:59] <persia> For 754825, I'm inclined to leave it alone: bjf set it to "Confirmed" after the note that it went upstream, and I trust his opinion about how to mark kernel bugs more than my own.
[19:00] <braiam> JoshuaL: you said that there is a workaround?
[19:00] <JoshuaL> braiam, yeah just change it manually
[19:00] <JoshuaL> persia, ok, was just wondering what should happen next.
[19:01] <persia> Wait for it to land :)
[19:02] <braiam> mm... I said that about a month ago but it doesn't resolve the issue, it's only with this laptop JoshuaL ?
[19:02] <persia> duncan-nz, OK.  I restarted LibreOffice, and ran Draw, and I found the unit of measurement.  I'm not seeing "Format > Page" anywhere.
[19:03] <JoshuaL> braiam, when I reported that bug it seemed to be a rare case.
[19:03] <duncan-nz> persia, one of the menu items: File, Edit, View, Insert, Format.
[19:03] <JoshuaL> spoke to someone at irc, cant remember who it was
[19:04] <braiam> nope JoshuaL
[19:04] <persia> duncan-nz, I get "Letter", which isn't ideal for my locale, but the units are in cm, as they were in the draw options.  I can't confirm the behaviour you describe (and thanks for walking me through it carefully)
[19:05] <braiam> persia: what locales are you using?
[19:05] <duncan-nz> persia, ok, looks like this is specific to my setup. Does your locale use cm or inch?
[19:05] <JoshuaL> braiam, sorry i thought you where talking about the kernel panic issue
[19:06] <duncan-nz> braiam, great minds think alike.
[19:06] <braiam> I have to patch my own, it use A4, persia
[19:07] <persia> duncan-nz, It should use "cm", but my environment isn't ideally clean.  You may want to launch a fresh image in a VM in a variety of locales to get useful data.
[19:07] <braiam> mine has about two weeks, and no issue duncan-nz
[19:08] <braiam> persia: and your locales are?
[19:08] <duncan-nz> persia, I'm staring to think the same. I remember that OpenOffice and Ubuntu haven't always been so good to do the right thing according to each locale. Mine is da_en (Denmark English) which hasn't always worked very well.
[19:09] <persia> My locale is a mix of en_IN and jp_JP: not precisely ideal for finding general cases.
[19:09] <persia> Wouldn't Denmark English be en_DA ?
[19:09] <duncan-nz> okay, thanks. I'll setup a VM before I report this as a problem.
[19:10] <duncan-nz> persia, probably, I couldn't remember how they are written.
[19:10] <braiam> persia: ty
[19:10] <braiam> persia: give me a sec to see...
[19:10] <JoshuaL> yet another bug which status can be set to low (bug 771720), i also hope i provided enough information.
[19:10] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 771720 in indicator-appmenu (Ubuntu) "Inbox counters sometimes don't show up in the indicator-appmenu (affects: 1) (heat: 158)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/771720
[19:11] <JoshuaL> sorry to bug you guys with my bug reports and its importance :p
[19:11] <JoshuaL> s/status/importance
[19:11] <persia> JoshuaL, I think 771720 needs more investigation.  Is it really an issue with indicator-appmenu?
[19:11] <persia> I suspect it's more likely to be indicator-messages.
[19:12] <persia> I further suspect that it's not that, but your email client (given that a manual send/receive fixes it)
[19:12] <braiam> persia: en_DK
[19:12] <persia> Or does the email client know about the messages although the indicator doesn't?
[19:12] <JoshuaL> persia, all those indicators are a bit confusing, thought it was the same as indicator-messages
[19:12] <persia> braiam, Ah, yeah, that looks better.  I was going merely on the "da_en" above.
[19:13] <persia> JoshuaL, I believe "indicator-appmenu" is the one with the menus from applications.
[19:13] <JoshuaL> ah
[19:13] <braiam> i have the entire locales branch to locate the clock bug...
[19:13] <persia> Anyway, that one needs more investigation: you can't confirm, but you *can* do a lot of the investigation to make sure that it's easy for the next person.
[19:14] <JoshuaL> persia, the client knows about the messages (and the inboxes) but the indicator does not, but its really random so i cant reproduce it with certain steps.. ill try to find more information which i can add
[19:15] <persia> Knowing which client an example of useful additional information :)  It would also be interesting to know if it can be reproduced with the release code, rather than just from Beta.
[19:16] <braiam> persia: yours and my locales are the same, but have different page size
[19:17] <persia> braiam, Considering that I've never connected this machine to my printer, or told it I like A4, I'm not that surprised my data is odd.
[19:17] <duncan-nz> Why is Virtual Box no longer in the repositories?
[19:18] <braiam> persia: yeah, but i want the letter size, and have A4 :$
[19:18] <persia> braiam, heh.
[19:19] <JoshuaL> persia, thanks :)
[19:20] <persia> duncan-nz, rmadison tells me it's in hardy, karmic, lucid, maverick, and oneiric.  Which repo are you checking?
[19:21] <JoshuaL> persia, i will change the affecting package aswel or do you advice to leave it for a while till i improve the bugreport itself?
[19:21] <stgraber> braiam: /etc/papersize ?
[19:21] <duncan-nz> persia, stupid synaptic can't see that 'virtual box' is the same as 'virtualbox' sorry for the fuss.
[19:21] <persia> JoshuaL, I think setting the correct affected package is the most important thing: otherwise the additional bug traffic you generate improving the report may not be directed to the correct people.
[19:22] <JoshuaL> persia, ill change it to indicator-messages then, thanks :)
[19:22] <persia> JoshuaL, You'll want to check to confirm that it is indicator-messages: I may be incorrect.
[19:23] <JoshuaL> persia, i will do


[00:19] <phillw> hi folks, sorry to bother you, but could someone point me in the general direction to answer this?
[00:19] <phillw> what's a scheduler and what's the difference between a CFQ one and a deadline i/o one?


[10:16] <tsdgeos> Saviq: the changelog file looks bad at https://code.launchpad.net/~unity-team/unity-api/surfaceCursor/+merge/278297
[10:17] <Saviq> tsdgeos, d'oh
[10:17] <Saviq> tsdgeos, I think it's lp being daft
[10:17] <Saviq> checking
[10:18] <Saviq> tsdgeos, merges clean here
[10:18] <tsdgeos> k
[13:21] <tsdgeos> Saviq: https://code.launchpad.net/~lukas-kde/unity8/translateScopes/+merge/278255
[13:21] <tsdgeos> Saviq: is the reason "because we want Scopes to be a word people recognize"?
[13:22] <bregma> Saviq, mzanetti, does Canonical have any plans for any presentations in the FOSDEM Desktop Room yet?
[13:22] <mzanetti> bregma, see my mail on unitymirteam/warthogs
[13:23] <mzanetti> bregma, I'm still searching for volunteers
[13:23] <mzanetti> means, so far no plans, but I think we should.
[13:24] <bregma> mzanetti, I saw the mail on the lists, I have an idea, I just want to coordinate
[13:24] <mzanetti> cool
[13:25] <mzanetti> bregma, I'm replacing didrocks in the room organization team this year. so if you have special questions about the desktop room, I think I can help out.
[15:47] <tsdgeos> mzanetti: https://code.launchpad.net/~aacid/unity8/cleanup_assets/+merge/278340
[15:48] <mzanetti> tsdgeos, nice. any estimate on the package installed size decrease?
[15:48] <tsdgeos> mzanetti: ~400K
[15:49] <mzanetti> kk
[15:49] <tsdgeos> mzanetti: actually more like 1M
[15:49] <tsdgeos> since i also removed a 600K unused image
[15:50] <ltinkl> tsdgeos, have we tried optipng yet?
[15:50] <ltinkl> (or how's that thing called)
[15:52] <tsdgeos> ltinkl: not sure if we have tbh
[15:52] <ltinkl> tsdgeos, might spare us some more kilos
[15:56] <tsdgeos> ltinkl: guess so, yeah, this was much easier since was simply [re]moving them :D
[18:03] <mterry> greyback_, you mentioned before that ubuntu-app-launch talks to qtmir before launching an app -- what interface is that on?  (I'm trying to find in code, but it's a little obtuse to someone not familiar with it)
[18:04] <greyback_> mterry: qtmir registers a callback for pre-start with ubuntu_app_launch_observer_add_app_starting
[18:04] <mterry> greyback_, ah.. via upstart mechanisms
[18:05] <mterry> err
[18:08] <mterry> upstart over dbus anyway  :)
[18:08] <mterry> greyback_, thanks
[18:08] <greyback_> mterry: np, happy hunting


[08:59] <raihan> Yes, Ekushey
[08:59] <raihan> #bangladesh
[09:07] <Ekushey> h NaSb
[09:07] <Ekushey> sorry i couldn't reply your message earlier, i was away
[09:08] <Ekushey> the answer is we can't allow anyone who didn't register, as the list has already been sent to ULAB security people
[09:08] <Ekushey> they will only let people who has their names on the list to enter
[09:10] <NaSb> okk..
[09:11] <NaSb> Thanks u'r replying..
[09:13] <Ekushey> sorry about it, but we'll do the next program somewhere where we can accomodate everyone
[09:13] <Ekushey> did you register yourself, NaSb?
[09:13] <NaSb> Yes, Of course
[09:13] <NaSb> Why?
[09:14] <Ekushey> just asking
[09:14] <Ekushey> hope to see you then
[09:14] <Ekushey> come by 10:00
[09:14] <Ekushey> don't be late
[09:14] <Ekushey> :)
[09:15] <NaSb> Nope , Ajkei Dekha Hocche Insha-allah..
[09:16] <Ekushey> oh
[09:16] <Ekushey> see you at 5 then
[09:16] <Ekushey> what's your name by the way?
[09:16] <NaSb> Insha-allah..
[09:17] <NaSb> Nazir Ahmed Sabbir,
[09:17] <Ekushey> oh ok :)
[09:17] <Ekushey> see you
[09:17] <NaSb> :)
[09:17] <Ekushey> i'm sending an email to all the registrants in a while
[09:17] <Ekushey> let me revise it :)
[09:18] <NaSb> okk,Bro
[09:22] <Ekushey> mail sent
[09:22] <Ekushey> :)