[00:00] <xelister> and ubuntu is hidding from me information about what I should google
[00:00] <hggdh> ?
[00:00] <maco> as far as i am concerned FF & IE are the same class of software.  since compiz is rather lacking a competitor on the gnome desktop, referring to it by its class ("desktop effects" "3d desktop") is fine
[00:00] <micahg> xelister: k, then you use xprop, man, help menus, and IRC channels, what's the problem
[00:00] <xelister> your example of using  xprop | grep.. make no sense, it is tottally black magic to non technical user
[00:00] <maco> xelister: you cant have it both ways
[00:00] <xelister> sure I can
[00:00] <micahg> maco: +1
[00:00] <maco> non-technical users dont RTFM
[00:01] <xelister> maco: -9, just look
[00:01] <maco> if you want to RTFM you are by definition a technical user
[00:01]  * micahg is going back to work...
[00:01] <xelister> (*) Use Desktop Effects  (using compiz program, on your nvidia GFX card)
[00:01] <maco> oh yes non tech users understand "GFX" uh huh
[00:01] <yofel> the desktop effects menu shouldn't have anything to do with the graphics card or driver
[00:01] <maco> yofel: agreed
[00:02] <xelister> then just  (using compiz)
[00:02] <xelister> sorry to interrupt your backpetting with a good idea ;)
[00:03] <xelister> so you want totally clueless users to stay that way, by not pointing them in the right direction. Why?
[00:03] <maco> but why do you need to tell WHICH application of the class "desktop effects" will be used when it is the ONLY option for applications of that class?

[00:03]  * BUGabundo seats back and reads
[00:03] <maco> xelister: just accept the truth. users who want to know how computer work are *rare*
[00:03] <arand> BUGabundo: Don't.
[00:04] <xelister> maco: because this is one damn word,  that can't help to point user to get a bit more educated
[00:04] <arand> BUGabundo: If you were refering to the backlog that is...
[00:04] <BUGabundo> arand: I'm to tekie
[00:04] <micahg> !language | xelister
[00:04] <ubot2> xelister: Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family friendly.
[00:04] <maco> the computer should do what needs to be done, stay out of the way, and not ask stupid questions or volunteer unnecessary info such that the user gets stuck reading things they neither care about nor understand
[00:04] <BUGabundo> I can never express me without using technical jargon
[00:05] <yofel> heh, me too, but only because I'm too used to it
[00:05] <xelister> maco: but that does not happen at all, ubuntu crashes, hangs, and fails all the time
[00:05] <xelister> and now users lack help in debuggin or reporting problems, or otherwise just googlingit
[00:05] <maco> xelister: the solution isnt to force more info they dont care about at them! the solution is to FIX THE BUGS
[00:05] <maco> xelister: adding usability bugs does not fix crashing bugs!
[00:05] <xelister> maco: well it isn't hapening, can't use kmail for weeks
[00:05] <xelister> even on 4.4.4
[00:06]  * maco looks at kmail
[00:06] <maco> are you using imap?
[00:06] <BUGabundo> wfm :\
[00:06] <maco> if so, switch to offlineimap. the regular imap is and has been boned for ages
[00:06] <maco> er sorry dimap
[00:06] <maco> bahhh darned evolution users got me saying offlineimap
[00:06] <BUGabundo> local, imap, dimap, pop, all with ssl and not
[00:06] <xelister> sure I use cached imap
[00:06] <yofel> xelister: googling for 'ubuntu desktop effects' tells you that it's compiz in the first result
[00:06]  * micahg gave up on kmail after imap stopped working well...
[00:07] <BUGabundo> micahg: wfm
[00:07] <xelister> btw, now ubuntu doesn't have a good bug free email client
[00:07] <maco> micahg: when was that? i switched to kmail a year and a half ago and have never known the plain imap to work without crashing on deletion of multiple messages
[00:07] <xelister> it's imho a disaster, and why are people tkaing time to work on gimmicks that 3d stuff is beyond me
[00:07] <micahg> BUGabundo: k, well, when I had my bug, I needed something else, so I switched to thunderbird and never looked back
[00:07] <yofel> xelister: thunderbird?
[00:07] <maco> xelister: uh kmail isnt in ubuntu. its in kubuntu
[00:07] <BUGabundo> mutt? ehe
[00:07] <maco> evolution works fine in ubuntu IME
[00:07] <micahg> maco: it was something with filters or deletions (7.10) era
[00:07] <BUGabundo> maco:  no.. it's a piece of software
[00:07] <xelister> yofel: thunderbrid lacks half of feautrues from kmail
[00:08] <maco> all the bugs that annoyed me on it back in 8.04 were fixed 9.04
[00:08] <BUGabundo> I really don't care in what DE it belongs too
[00:08] <BUGabundo> it SHOULD just work
[00:08] <maco> BUGabundo: what? im just saying its not included on the ubuntu cd
[00:08] <maco> BUGabundo: ubuntu's default mail client *does* work just fine
[00:08] <BUGabundo> its an apt-get distance
[00:08] <xelister> for example users have NO IDEA how ssh and other PINs caching works
[00:08] <yofel> maco: sure, but it's in main
[00:08] <BUGabundo> so should kmail after install
[00:08] <yofel> so it really *should* work
[00:08] <BUGabundo> as with any app
[00:08] <maco> (annoying that you cant set the trash location per-account like in kmail but meh)
[00:09] <xelister> but instead of resolving this by explaining a bit,  you prefer users to remaing ignorant.  What in the hell are you doing?? =)
[00:09] <maco> xelister: i think anyone advanced enough to know how to use SSH can find that stuff for themselves.
[00:09] <xelister> maco: no
[00:09] <micahg> maco: I switched away from KDE when I saw 4 to Xfce, it does what I needed so I've stayed with it, but I use Akregator because I think it's a great RSS feed app
[00:09] <maco> micahg: i use google reader because i like sharing :P
[00:10] <micahg> maco: I'm trying to hide from google :P
[00:10] <maco> what would be *awesome* is if akregator could sync with greader
[00:10] <xelister> maco: who caches - openpgp pass;  ssh pass for ssh connection;  when Im in gnome. And how to change length of caching.  What is "default keyring" how to reset its password?
[00:10] <maco> xelister: seahorse for all of those
[00:10] <maco> in kde, ssh-agent and gpg-agent do the first two
[00:11] <micahg> maco: kde 211999
[00:11] <maco> reseting keyring password applications -> accessories -> encryption and whatnot (im not on gnome i forget what its called) -> right click the keyring -> reset password
[00:11] <ubot2> KDE bug 211999 in general "Syncing with Google Reader" [Wishlist,New] http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=211999
[00:11] <maco> micahg: weeeeeeeeeee
[00:12] <maco> xelister: its not "we prefer users to remain ignorant" its "users prefer to remain ignorant, so we dont try to force information down their throats"
[00:12]  * micahg likes KDE in principle and might return one day :)
[00:12]  * hggdh sides with maco
[00:12] <maco> xelister: people who *dont* want to remain ignorant can use gentoo or become developers
[00:13] <maco> (clearly most of us in the current convo have gone with the "become developers" route)
[00:13]  * micahg thinks Ubuntu has more educational material than any other distro
[00:13] <maco> (yes i am counting triage as a developer activity :)  ~ubuntu-dev is a member of bugcontrol after all)
[00:14] <xelister> so users can be clueless, or developers
[00:14] <maco> micahg: yeah our wiki rocks :)
[00:14] <hggdh> no
[00:14] <xelister> right. nothing in betwen
[00:14] <maco> xelister: gentoo?
[00:14] <hggdh> users can be educated
[00:14] <BUGabundo> maco: I like to learn. but I don't plan to run gentoo or ever code :(
[00:14] <micahg> xelister: help.ubuntu.com, wiki.ubuntu.com, irc.ubuntu.com, ubuntuforums.org, all the Locos, there's no shortage of info
[00:14] <xelister> how is ubuntu helping users to get educated when they want to get more information?
[00:15] <maco> BUGabundo: like i said, im counting bug work in the "development" umbrella
[00:15] <hggdh> xelister: see micahg's response above
[00:15]  * micahg loves answering Qs before they're asked :D
[00:15] <xelister> and how is /ubuntu/ system inviting users to do any of above
[00:15] <BUGabundo> aahha
[00:15] <maco> xelister: default bookmarks in firefox
[00:15] <maco> xelister: pointers in system -> help
[00:15] <xelister> so, the 2 least used things ever
[00:15] <xelister> anything else?
[00:15] <hggdh> ah
[00:16] <maco> just because we dont have HORRIBLE user interfaces with too darned much text doesnt mean the info doesnt exist anywhere
[00:16] <maco> and people who WANT to find that info can look there
[00:16] <xelister> some programs, give links to more info right there WHEN users wants the info. like in the confusing dialog box
[00:16] <maco> people who dont (that is, the VAST majority of people) can remain blissfully ignorant
[00:16] <hggdh> and still use it
[00:16] <xelister> is that a good or bad direction to take?
[00:16] <maco> the goal is to not have a confusing dialog box to begin with
[00:17] <xelister> how is giving a link like [more info] a horrible interface with too DARNED MUCH text?  Are you using ubuntu on a 4" cellphone :> ?
[00:17] <hggdh> xelister: it is the user's option: if they want to learn they have access to all of it. If they do *not*, they don; t need to
[00:17] <maco> and if you make a "more info" link, that just makes it seem EVEN MORE complicated because OMG they couldnt fit all the info here and oh god oh god i have to go *read* more stuff and eeek! why are they wanting me to have to know so much oh goodness im not enough of a geek for this OS!
[00:17] <xelister> maco: then that goal of not heaving confusing UI is failed
[00:18] <maco> xelister: adding a "more info" link doesnt fix a confusing UI. thats my point
[00:18]  * hggdh starts considering that enough is enough.  Discuss it with the developers. But complaining here will not solve anything
[00:20] <xelister> maco: for me and other users it was happening ALWAYS. and after few hours we found and resolved the bug with akonadi developer :)
[00:20] <maco> oh this is a different akonadi bug?
[00:20] <maco> blah theres a bunch in 4.4 :(
[00:20] <xelister> maco: More info button would hide the entire above dialog, and relaced it with  "Error: Kmail can not use Akonadi.  [Details...]"
[00:20] <BUGabundo> is this ubuntu-bugs still?
[00:21] <BUGabundo> or did it became arayana?
[00:21] <maco> BUGabundo: apparently it's #kde-bugs now
[00:21] <maco> BUGabundo: someone here seems to think kde's bugs are for us to fix
[00:21] <xelister> maco: who is that person???
[00:21] <BUGabundo> ahh
[00:21] <maco> xelister: you
[00:21] <hggdh> OK, this is it. Let's please stop with this thread.
[00:21] <xelister> maco: because for example I resolved that kmail bug in Ubuntu, in upstream akonadi, by talking to akonadi devels
[00:21] <BUGabundo> well. I'm going offline
[00:21] <maco> akonadi devs != ubuntu devs
[00:22] <BUGabundo> need to cach up in feeds before bed
[00:22] <maco> if you want changes to KDE's UI, talk to KDE devs
[00:22] <maco> kubuntu has policy of NOT diverging from upstream
[00:22] <BUGabundo> maco: please control yourself too
[00:22] <BUGabundo> take this to #OT
[00:23] <maco> BUGabundo: i dont understand why xelister thinks this has anything at all to do with ubuntu
[00:23] <BUGabundo> Thank you
[00:23] <BUGabundo> right now, _we_ don't care
[00:23] <maco> #ubuntu-offtopic isnt the place. #kde-devel may be
[00:23]  * BUGabundo inserts a "polite" in there
[00:23] <BUGabundo> wherever
[00:24] <xelister> that dialog with settings of desktop effects, is it part of gnome or of ubuntu?
[00:24] <BUGabundo> xelister: please stop
[00:24] <BUGabundo> you've been ask several times
[00:27] <BUGabundo> nite
[00:28] <hggdh> noites, BUGabundo
[00:31] <drew212> is there a meeting today?
[00:34] <micahg> drew212: for whom?
[00:34] <drew212> i thought there was a bugsquad meeting today, but i miread tuesday as thursday
[00:34] <hggdh> drew212: no, it is next tuesday
[00:35] <drew212> yaeh =X
[00:35] <hggdh> :-)
[00:35] <drew212> i could have swore today was a bug day or something... =X
[00:35]  * hggdh has serious problems with calendars
[00:35] <micahg> drew212: bugday, yes
[00:35] <drew212> so it is a bugday =)
[00:35] <micahg> drew212: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20100603
[00:37] <drew212> thanks micahg
[00:38] <drew212> im still so far behind in how to triage and all the technical stuff =X
[01:31] <trinikrono> hey any updates with the mentor programme? i am requesting one and i am utc-4
[01:54] <stenten> Is there a reason why everyone asks for dmesg rather than kern.log when triaging? Is the information different?
[01:59] <yofel> stenten: dmesg only gives the log from the current session, kern.log is much longer
[01:59] <stenten> Hmm, that's what I thought, thanks.
[02:00] <stenten> I still find it odd that people ask for dmesg after a lockup that requires a reboot. Because by then it's a new session, right?
[03:07] <ddecator> trinikrono: i believe they're close to assigning students to mentors
[03:08] <drew212> ddecator: sweet =), im in line for a mentor
[03:09] <ddecator> yah, i need to talk to pedro, so i can ask him the status of everything then
[03:12] <drew212> How long is the mentor process proposed to take?
[03:13] <ddecator> it varies, depending on how active the student is. it usually lasts until the student gets into bug control, which can take one month or several
[03:19] <drew212> ok, I'm going to school in 2.5 months, so I need to get it done by then.
[03:19] <drew212> I just want to get this done over the summer because i have more free time now.
[03:50] <drew212> micahg: are you around?
[03:53] <micahg> drew212: yes
[03:54] <drew212> i want to get this bug triaged bug 317330, what do i need to do to complete it?
[03:54] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 317330 in firefox-3.5 (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "[Master] No sound in Firefox (affects: 31) (dups: 12) (heat: 101)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/317330
[03:55] <drew212> i would think its a low or maybe medium importance...
[03:55] <micahg> drew212: not sure, there's not enough info to do anything about it
[03:56] <drew212> what else would we need?
[03:56] <micahg> drew212: probably either a flash issue or a plugin
[03:56]  * micahg would not have duped them all...
[03:56] <drew212> yeah, we went through that last time =P
[03:57] <micahg> drew212: well, I'm still not so clear on the audio side of things, but I don't think Firefox has any control over the audio unless it's HTML 5 and not using a plugin
[03:57] <micahg> drew212: any youtube issues should be between flash and pulseaudio
[03:58] <micahg> drew212: also each version of Ubuntu has a different audio stack with its own quirks
[03:58] <micahg> drew212: there was a pulseaudio bug where it was locking the process so only 1 sound at a time worked
[03:59] <micahg> maco: are you still around?
[03:59] <maco> yeah
[03:59] <maco> just had a nice little fight with lp and bzr
[03:59] <maco> oh god
[03:59]  * maco headdesk
[04:00] <drew212> idk, i just marked them all dupes becuase they were all experiencing no sound in firefox... i was being a bit zealous =D
[04:00] <maco> oh oh wait i read ubot2's blah wrong
[04:00] <micahg> maco: any experience debugging sound issues?  apparently some people have trouble with flash in Firefox
[04:00] <maco> i thought it said 31 dupes
[04:00] <maco> i tend to just assume it's adobe's fault
[04:00] <micahg> drew212: well, it's a natural conclusion, but after UDS, I feel it's not the correct way to go
[04:01] <drew212> UDS?
[04:01] <micahg> maco: I would tend to agree :)
[04:01] <maco> ubuntu developer summit
[04:01] <drew212> ahh
[04:01] <drew212> once i get through school i hope to attend more ubuntu functions
[04:01] <micahg> we had many discussions on how bugs that look similar with different types of hardware can  have different causes
[04:01] <lifeless> maco: what was wrong with lp/bzr?
[04:01] <maco> yeah sound is so convoluted that lots of seemingly the same ("they all say intel hda!") hardware that is actually very different can have similar symptoms that need different patches
[04:02] <maco> lifeless: inexperience :)
[04:02] <lifeless> well
[04:02] <lifeless> if you have questions, ask!happy to help
[04:02] <maco> i couldnt figure out how to change branch ownership
[04:02] <drew212> micahg: i apologize for my ignorance =P
[04:02] <micahg> drew212: well, no updates for 2.5 months, so I wonder if anyone is still experiencing it
[04:02] <maco> there's a "change branch reviewer" button but the *owner* part is hidden inside "change branch details" which means i didnt find it
[04:02] <lifeless> maco: ah; did you manage?
[04:03] <drew212> i dont have the problem in lucid
[04:03] <micahg> drew212: don't worry, we learn from experience
[04:03] <maco> and then i wasnt sure if that was what i wanted, since i didnt know if itd rename the branch to match the team i was setting it to be owned by or if itd still have my username in it
[04:03] <drew212> micahg: true
[04:03] <micahg> drew212: I had a pulse issue for a while in karmic, but I think an update fixed it
[04:03] <maco> lifeless: im declaring the fact that it took 2 people a half hour to find the way to change the owner a usability bug
[04:03] <lifeless> sure :)
[04:04] <lifeless> please do file a bug on launchpad-cde about finding it hard to find/use
[04:04] <maco> nigel was the other who was going "wait wait i know its possible....somehow..."
[04:05] <micahg> drew212: so, once again, not really sure :)
[04:05] <maco> lifeless: might want to pop into #gally and ask peacetara what she found difficult on lp. she just used it for the first time 2 days ago to push a branch to my project and she says it was very confusing
[04:05] <maco> im used to most of LP's weirdness by now so im not a good usability test anymore
[04:05] <drew212> im going to post the Old untouched bugs respons from the bug responses wiki
[04:05] <lifeless> oh, I know we're unusable
[04:05] <drew212> micahg: sound good?
[04:05] <lifeless> I'm just offering to help when you're stuck :)
[04:05]  * micahg will do a quick search on adobe's tracker
[04:06] <drew212> it has been fixed for my dist.
[04:07] <zus> ddecator, are you around?
[04:07] <micahg> drew212: there are a few bugs in adobe's tracker
[04:08] <micahg> drew212: also the 10.0.45 update might have fixed a few things
[04:08] <maco> lifeless: well now im discovering that my gmail filters for bugmail are inadequate now that i report bugs in lp that arent ubuntu bugs :P all my bug subscriptions are going into the ubuntu folder, wrongly, so im trying to come up with filters that are actually correct. confusing.
[04:08] <drew212> micahg: so how should we proceed?
[04:09] <lifeless> maco: ugh
[04:09]  * micahg still hides from most flash bugs :)
[04:09] <lifeless> maco: gmail is a bit hard to filter well with
[04:09] <maco> yeah
[04:09] <maco> Project: Ubuntu in those long-form emails would make things simpler
[04:09] <micahg> drew212: well, you can search the adobe tracker and see if you find something that looks similar, we can note it move to flash and mark triaged
[04:09] <micahg> drew212: https://bugs.adobe.com/jira/
[04:10] <micahg> drew212: actually: https://bugs.adobe.com/jira/browse/FP
[04:10] <maco> i have 2 filter rules. one matches on "package in ubuntu:" the other on "status in ubuntu:" because if theres no package marked yet its the latter
[04:10] <maco> (aside from my ones that are for bugs assigned to me and so forth)
[04:10] <drew212> https://bugs.adobe.com/jira/browse/FP-2437 here is a simmilar one
[04:11] <drew212> well that was the problem i was having
[04:11] <drew212> there is another one that is resolved
[04:12] <micahg> drew212: a little out of date, but I'll bite, do you want to comment and add that to the description?
[04:12] <drew212> im looking for a more recent/relavant one...
[04:12] <micahg> drew212: k, let me know
[04:14] <drew212> micahg: here is a more recent one https://bugs.adobe.com/jira/browse/FP-2437
[04:16] <micahg> drew212: that's the same one :P
[04:16] <drew212> oh damn =P
[04:17] <drew212> ok, so thats the most recent one with the same problem
[04:17] <micahg> drew212: k, let's take it, use the note about commenting upstream :)
[04:18] <drew212> the one saying that it has been reported to the developers of the software?
[04:19] <micahg> drew212: yep
[04:19] <drew212> should i add a package or no?
[04:19] <micahg> drew212: yeah, flashplugin-nonfree
[04:20] <drew212> micahg: also affects project button?
[04:20] <micahg> drew212: no, distro
[04:20] <micahg> drew212: LP can't interact with JIRA yet
[04:21] <drew212> micahg: ok... should i add anything asking them to test if its only a flash problem?
[04:21] <micahg> drew212: who, what, where?
[04:22] <drew212> at the end of my comment, should i say something like, could you please test this to verify that it is a flash plugin problem or just assume that it is?
[04:23] <micahg> drew212: you can say if someone if still experiencing it, if they can comment on the upstream bug
[04:23] <drew212> micahg: Thank you for your bug report. This bug has been reported to the developers of the software. You can track it and make comments at: https://bugs.adobe.com/jira/browse/FP-4588. If anyone is still experiencing this bug, please comment on the upstream bug.
[04:23] <micahg> drew212: with their latest software versions
[04:23] <drew212> Does that look good as a comment?
[04:24] <micahg> drew212: that's a newer one :)
[04:24] <drew212> whats a newer one?
[04:24] <micahg> the one in that link
[04:24] <drew212> micahg: yeah, thats the one i linked no?
[04:24] <micahg> drew212: no
[04:24] <drew212> oh, damn my clumsiness
[04:24] <micahg> drew212: also, that one it works and then stops, is that the symptom?
[04:25] <drew212> oh, no, lol i have so many tabs open i'm getting helluva confused
[04:26] <drew212> ok i changed it to the original bug FP-2437
[04:26] <micahg> drew212: sounds good
[04:27] <drew212> ok done...
[04:27] <drew212> now can we triage it?
[04:27] <drew212> *not a member of bug control
[04:27] <micahg> drew212: doing it now :)
[04:28] <micahg> drew212: what importancE?
[04:28] <drew212> second, i said low but i dont remember why
[04:29] <micahg> drew212: you didn't say why :)
[04:29] <drew212> micahg: i had the reason in my head =P
[04:29]  * micahg is going to set it to medium since it makes part of a core app not work
[04:30] <drew212> because sound is a more cosmetic/usability issue it doesnt limit the functionality of the application
[04:30] <micahg> drew212: part of the functionality is watching youtube videos :)
[04:30] <drew212> yeah =P
[04:30] <drew212> but its easily worked around, you can whistle your own music :P
[04:30] <drew212> medium sounds good
[04:32] <micahg> drew212: done
[04:32] <drew212> sweet =)
[04:32] <drew212> i finally feel like i triaged a bug and completed something now =)
[04:33] <micahg> drew212: congrats :) on to the next one?
[04:33] <drew212> sure =)
[04:33] <drew212> i need to start doing 5-a days
[04:33] <micahg> drew212: k
[04:33] <drew212> how about the firefox bookmark dragging one?
[04:35] <micahg> all the hard ones...
[04:35] <drew212> lol, did you have an easy one in mind?
[04:35] <micahg> drew212: k, number?
[04:35] <drew212> i gotta find it first
[04:38] <drew212> hmm i cant seem to find it, do you have any bugs in mind?
[04:38] <micahg> drew212: just pick one
[04:39] <drew212> well the dragging bookmark one is really starting to annoy me, because i experience it =P
[04:41] <drew212> how about bug 452608
[04:41] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 452608 in firefox-3.5 (Ubuntu) "it is probably related with playing videos (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/452608
[04:41] <drew212> the name needs to be changed first off =P
[04:42] <drew212> and its a really old bug
[04:42]  * micahg thinks it was solved
[04:43] <drew212> is it a duplicate?
[04:43] <micahg> drew212: oh, maybe not...
[04:43] <micahg> drew212: I'd definited ask if they're still affected
[04:44] <drew212> posting the old untouched bugs comment
[04:45] <drew212> do i leave the brackets in apport-collect <bug #>?
[04:45] <drew212> micahg: or do i just add the number after the # sign?
[04:46] <drew212> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Responses#Old%20untouched%20bugs
[04:52] <micahg> drew212: no, replace <bug #> with the bug number
[04:58] <drew212> alrite, done...
[04:58] <drew212> O_o i found a bug simmilar to the one we triaged
[04:59] <micahg> drew212: don't forget to set to incomplete when asking for info
[04:59] <drew212> done
[05:00] <drew212> how should we handle bug 445937
[05:00] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 445937 in firefox-3.5 (Ubuntu) "there is no audio in flash (YouTube) (affects: 7) (heat: 36)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/445937
[05:01] <drew212> should i start by marking firefox-3.5 invalid, and adding flashplugin-nofree?
[05:01] <micahg> drew212: that's the same upstream flash bug
[05:02] <drew212> so mark it as a dupe? or do the same as the last one?
[05:02] <micahg> drew212: mark as a dupe and fix the title
[05:02] <drew212> fix the title?
[05:02] <micahg> drew212: no audio in browsers
[05:02] <micahg> drew212: that's what the upstream bug is
[05:03] <drew212> should i leave [master]?
[05:03] <micahg> drew212: sure
[05:03] <drew212> the upstream bug title is no sound in flash
[05:04] <micahg> drew212: you're right, that sounds better too :)
[05:05] <drew212> ok done
[05:06] <drew212> feature requests are for ubuntu.brainstorm correct?
[05:06] <micahg> drew212: depends
[05:07] <drew212> check out bug 429547
[05:07] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 429547 in firefox-3.5 (Ubuntu) "Feature Request: Printing, Optimizing Space (affects: 2) (heat: 10)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/429547
[05:07] <drew212> it doesnt look like one for brainstorm, but i man be wrong
[05:08] <micahg> drew212: nope, not for brainstorm, but something's not right, that shouldn't ahppen
[05:08] <drew212> ok, so how do we continue? ask for more information?
[05:08] <micahg> drew212: use old untouched bugs
[05:08] <micahg> also, the feature should already exist
[05:10] <drew212> should i remove feature request from the title?
[05:10] <micahg> drew212: can you test with print preview and see if you are experiencing it?
[05:11] <micahg> drew212: nah
[05:11] <drew212> i dont... i'm pretty sure i used to...
[05:11] <micahg> drew212: wait, yes
[05:11]  * micahg should mark wishlist instead
[05:11] <drew212> when my printer prints it always prints an extra page, but its usually blank =D
[05:11] <micahg> drew212: that's bad
[05:11] <drew212> i know, but i dont know how to reprort it correctly, so rather than have a bad bug report, i leave it be
[05:11] <drew212> i think it happens mostly with gimp..
[05:12] <drew212> why would we wishlist it if it's a bug?
[05:12] <micahg> drew212: ah, so a global problem
[05:12] <micahg> drew212: feature request is wishlist
[05:12] <drew212> micahg: i thought we determined it's a bug?
[05:13] <micahg> drew212: well, I forgot, need to go to bed soon :)
[05:13] <drew212> lol, me too
[05:13] <drew212> so, mark it as incomplete?
[05:14] <micahg> drew212: yep
[05:14] <drew212> micahg: finished?
[05:14] <micahg> drew212: with?
[05:15] <drew212> the bug
[05:15] <micahg> drew212: yes
[05:15] <drew212> i think its a printer problem though, because it happens with every browser he uses...
[05:16] <drew212> what distro would that be?
[05:16] <micahg> drew212: hopefully Ubuntu, see nick :P
[05:16] <drew212> nixternal?
[05:17] <drew212> nick who?
[05:17] <micahg> drew212: no, ubuntu_giant (reporter)
[05:17] <drew212> what is that?
[05:17] <micahg> drew212: look who submitted the bug report
[05:17] <drew212> oh!
[05:18] <drew212> im going to move on for now...
[05:18] <drew212> i have 2 more bugs to hit before 12 =P
[05:18] <micahg> drew212: I think printing is handled by cairo, if you want you can search here for a similar report: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/
[05:20] <drew212> nothing i could find
[05:20] <drew212> what is freedesktop bugzilla?
[05:28] <micahg> drew212: freedesktop.org is where xorg and cairo amongst other things come from
[05:28] <drew212> O_o
[05:33] <drew212> micahg: does bug 304306 need to be marked triaged because it has been found upstream already?
[05:33] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 304306 in firefox-3.5 (Ubuntu) (and 3 other projects) "Firefox auto scroll icon is not transparent (affects: 5) (heat: 32)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/304306
[05:34] <micahg> drew212: let me see
[05:34] <drew212> i can confirm it
[05:38] <micahg> drew212: which version?
[05:39] <drew212> 3.6.3
[05:39] <micahg> drew212: k, I'll mark all 3 sources as triaged then
[05:40] <micahg> drew212: done
[05:41] <drew212> should i assign it to the mozilla-bugs #429698? like the other one?
[05:41] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 429698 in xdelta (Ubuntu) "FFe: Sync xdelta 1.1.3-9 (universe) from Debian unstable (main) (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/429698
[05:41] <drew212> oops
[05:41] <micahg> drew212: ?
[05:42] <drew212> thats the upstream bug
[05:42] <micahg> drew212: no need to assign FF bugs
[05:42] <drew212> alrite
[05:45] <drew212> thanks again micahg
[05:46] <micahg> drew212: np
[05:46] <micahg> drew212: thank you for working on bugs
[05:52] <micahg> drew212: BTW, you can get links to upstream trackers as well: mozilla 429698
[05:52] <ubot2> Mozilla bug 429698 in General "Linux autoscroll icon no longer transparent" [Normal,New] http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=429698
[06:07] <ddecator> zus: now i am
[06:13] <zus> ddecator,  howz it going?
[06:13] <ddecator> zus: not bad, yourself?
[06:15] <zus> very well
[06:21] <drew212> micahg: are you still around?
[06:21] <micahg> drew212: barely
[06:21] <drew212> lol, how do you get notified on all firefox bugs?
[06:21] <drew212> i notice you're listed under, also notified
[06:21] <ddecator> i can help with FF bugs if micah needs to go
[06:21] <micahg> drew212: I subscribe to the packages
[06:22] <drew212> ahh!
[06:22] <micahg> drew212: it ends up being a lot of mail, so be careful
[06:22] <drew212> i can set up filters =D
[06:22] <ddecator> drew212: https://edge.launchpad.net/firefox "Subscribe to bug mail"
[06:23] <ddecator> and yes, expect quite a bit of mail, haha
[06:23] <micahg> ddecator: not that one
[06:23] <ddecator> micahg: oops, yah just realized that..
[06:24] <micahg> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/
[06:24] <ddecator> yah, that's it
[06:24] <ddecator> drew212: ^^
[06:24] <drew212> i also subscribed to 3.0 and 3.5, should i unsubscribe those?
[06:25] <ddecator> up to you, i'm just subscribed to the unversioned firefox package since it's used in lucid and will be used from now on
[06:25] <drew212> where can i look at my subscriptions?
[06:25] <ddecator> plus 3.6 is going to be backported soon
[06:27] <micahg> ddecator: yeah, but I think we're keeping the sources for the moment
[06:27] <ddecator> micahg: gotcha
[06:32] <drew212> gah i cant create a filter from the message in thunderbird
[06:34] <micahg> drew212: you need a custom filter
[06:35] <drew212> micahg: ok...
[06:35]  * micahg has to go to sleep now but can help tomorrow
[06:35] <drew212> ddecator: can you walk me thru it?
[06:35] <ddecator> drew212: i can try. i don't use thunderbird regularly, but i used to. let me take a look
[06:35] <drew212> micahg: what should the message header be?
[06:35] <drew212> after that i'm golden
[06:37] <drew212> ddecator: i think he fell asleep
[06:37] <ddecator> drew212: haha, he's probably afk for the night
[06:38] <ddecator> ah, i think that's it
[06:38] <ddecator> drew212: Tools > Message Filters
[06:38] <ddecator> (i'm using TB 3.0)
[06:39] <drew212> me too
[06:40] <drew212> there is no reply-to header tho... =X
[06:41] <ddecator> i have a filter setup on gmail that moves all emails with "[Bug" in the subject to a Bugs label, but not sure if that's the kind of thing you are looking to do
[06:42] <drew212> that will work
[06:42] <ddecator> i'll have to keep my eye out for your work then ;)
[06:43] <ddecator> thanks for helping out!
[06:43] <drew212> no problem
[06:43] <ddecator> i haven't been able to work on FF bugs as much lately, so it's appreciated
[06:43] <drew212> i'm going to the university of illinois for CS, so I plan to become a Dev soon
[06:43] <drew212> soon is relative, because i graduate in 2 years =P
[06:44] <ddecator> nice, you're welcome to join us in #ubuntu-chicago :)
[06:45] <drew212> did you get that message?
[06:45] <ddecator> yah, haha
[06:45] <drew212> i'm already a member of the loco...
[06:46] <ddecator> great!
[06:46] <drew212> i work nights, so i cant really attend the meetings, in about 3 mo. i'm quitting work because i'll be in school
[06:49] <drew212> ddecator: bug 458655 looks like a flash problem, do you agree?
[06:49] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 458655 in firefox-3.5 (Ubuntu) "Facebook app my Aquarium - (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/458655
[06:50] <zus> lol my aquarium,...
[06:50] <zus> i farmville!
[06:50] <drew212> lol, i'm just triaging bugs =D
[06:51] <ddecator> drew212: probably, but i'm not sure if it uses flash or not. odd that it works in seamonkey
[06:52] <drew212> hmm, im not sure the app is even live anymore... i cant find it on facebook
[06:53] <ddecator> it's a pretty old bug, so it may have been resolved. you can start by asking if it's still an issue for the OP
[06:53] <drew212> thats where i'm going
[06:54] <drew212> i think i've done my 5-a day already =D
[06:55] <zus> brb
[06:56] <ddecator> drew212: good deal :) i need to start that back up once finals are over..
[07:55] <davely> exit
[08:59] <BUGabundo_remote> Summer gives us pretty short clothes :)
[10:24] <simar> what is dbus
[10:25] <arand> !info dbus
[10:25] <ubot2> arand: dbus (source: dbus): simple interprocess messaging system. In component main, is optional. Version 1.2.16-2ubuntu4 (lucid), package size 184 kB, installed size 604 kB
[10:34] <BUGabundo_remote> cough simple cough
[10:49] <simar> !info dbus
[10:49] <ubot2> simar: dbus (source: dbus): simple interprocess messaging system. In component main, is optional. Version 1.2.16-2ubuntu4 (lucid), package size 184 kB, installed size 604 kB
[10:49] <simar> !info hal
[10:49] <ubot2> simar: hal (source: hal): Hardware Abstraction Layer. In component main, is optional. Version 0.5.14-0ubuntu6 (lucid), package size 356 kB, installed size 1652 kB
[10:50] <simar> help
[10:50] <BUGabundo_remote> what's up ?
[10:52] <GrooveChampion> #589606
[10:53] <GrooveChampion> More information needed?
[10:53] <BUGabundo_remote> bug #589606
[10:53] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 589606 in gnome-terminal (Ubuntu) "problem with repainting under vanishing panel (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/589606
[10:54] <BUGabundo_remote> ehe
[10:54] <BUGabundo_remote> nice bug
[10:54] <BUGabundo_remote> never saw it before
[10:59] <GrooveChampion> I think i got another one: disabling desktop-effects does not always work. Sometimes a window still is transparent. But dont know whether this is a compiz bug:
[10:59] <GrooveChampion> http://picasaweb.google.de/johan.kroeckel/UbuntuBugs#5478663544415233298
[11:00] <GrooveChampion> Maybe metacity
[11:01] <GrooveChampion> Would you file it against compiz, metacity or something else?
[11:33] <GrooveChampion> #589616
[11:34] <GrooveChampion> More useful information I can add?
[11:36] <yofel> can you please use 'bug 589616' so the bot is triggered? thanks ;)
[11:36] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 589616 in compiz (Ubuntu) "disableing desktopeffects does not always comletely work (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/589616
[11:52] <GrooveChampion> sure
[12:01] <bilalakhtar> Someone, please mark bug 589507 as triaged and of high importance
[12:01] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 589507 in gdebi (Ubuntu) "GDebi closes if password is not entered correctly (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/589507
[12:03] <BlackZ> bilalakhtar: why 'High' ?
[12:06] <bilalakhtar> BlackZ: Its a major error, especially for new users who wanna install debs.
[12:06] <BlackZ> bilalakhtar: as I can see: "This bug affects 2 people"
[12:06] <BlackZ> please read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Importance
[12:06] <bilalakhtar> BlackZ: ok, medium is fine. No need for triaged. I am setting it to In Progress and assigning myself. Its a small error
[12:06] <yofel> erm, but there's an easy workaround: simply use the correct pw...
[12:06] <BlackZ> I'd say 'Low'
[12:06] <yofel> yep
[12:07] <BlackZ> marking as such
[12:07] <bilalakhtar> BlackZ: ok. But such a flaw is there in lucid as well..... I never felt that. Ok, low is fine.
[12:07] <yofel> bilalakhtar: if it's in lucid nominate it for lucid and go through the SRU process once it's fixed in maverick
[12:08] <BlackZ> bilalakhtar: done
[12:08] <yofel> bilalakhtar: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
[12:08] <bilalakhtar> yofel: Yes, I am preparing gdebi 0.6.0ubuntu2
[12:08] <BlackZ> please, consider to apply in the bug control team if you have triaged bugs for a while
[12:08] <bilalakhtar> yofel: This Will be the first SRU I am working on. I have packaged many apps and have merged but never SRU
[12:09] <bilalakhtar> BlackZ: this is the 5th bug I am triaging :)
[12:09] <BlackZ> bilalakhtar: so I'd say to wait again a while, always double-check the bugs, especially first to confirm them
[12:10] <yofel> bilalakhtar: heh, there's a first time for everything. I would say you should ask mvo if this qualifies for a SRU
[12:10] <bilalakhtar> yofel: mvo?
[12:11] <bilalakhtar> yofel: It should. I think. And this is gonna be the first "main" package I will work on
[12:11] <bilalakhtar> MOTUs cannot sponsor. I will need to search for a core-dev
[12:12] <yofel> Michael Vogt, mvo on irc, He's related to most package installation apps afaik - https://edge.launchpad.net/~mvo
[12:13] <bilalakhtar> yofel, BlackZ: Thanks, have to eat lunch now
[12:13] <bilalakhtar> bye, guys
[12:13] <yofel> bye
[12:49] <xteejx> Hey guys, where can I find a mentor to go through a merge with me?
[12:49] <xteejx> I want to learn as my first MOTU piece of work :)
[12:52] <xteejx> Or showing me how to work on a FTBFS which is probably easier, the MOTU wiki is a little hard to understand for beginners :(
[14:37] <jibel> vish, hi, why did you affect bug 519908 to dpkg ? IMO a parse error in a gconf schema has little to do with dpkg.
[14:37] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 519908 in dpkg (Ubuntu) "package cheese 2.28.1-0ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess installed pre-removal script returned error exit status 1 (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/519908
[14:39] <vish> jibel: i'm unsure what the user wants actually , if he wants the cheese fixed or the uninstall fixed, noticed several such bugs in dpkg and hence moved it there , pls re-assign as appropriate
[14:48] <jibel> vish, however an empty schema file is more a problem specific to the user's system.
[14:49] <vish> jibel: maybe dpkg could handle those better?
[14:53] <BUGabundo_remote> anyone ever saw a report of Toshiba NB200-134 taking 15-25 min to boot?
[14:53] <jibel> vish, dpkg simply reports the error returned by the maintainer script (in this case the call to gconf-schemas) and cannot interpret it in some way.
[14:54] <jibel> vish, at best the maintainer script could check the return status of gconf-schemas and do something if it's not 0.
[14:54] <vish> jibel: ah , yeah
[16:29] <talvigi> i have a bug in the firefox Lucid Lynx
[16:29] <BUGabundo_remote> only one?
[16:29] <BUGabundo_remote> lucky you
[16:29] <talvigi> it always starts with offline
[16:30] <BUGabundo_remote> humm I remember that one
[16:30] <BUGabundo_remote> micahg: do you recall it ?
[16:30] <talvigi> well how can you say it must be bugs free
[16:30] <micahg> BUGabundo_remote: no
[16:30] <micahg> talvigi: who says it's bug free?
[16:30] <talvigi> its the ubuntu promise
[16:30] <talvigi> i think
[16:31] <micahg> talvigi: no, we try to make things bug free, but it's impossible to promise such a thing
[16:31] <talvigi> bcz we people are here because of windows bugs
[16:31] <micahg> talvigi: the advantage is you can help fix bugs in Ubuntu whereas Windows is a black box
[16:32] <talvigi> and indeed these bugs are source of our lessons
[16:32] <micahg> talvigi: so, back to your bug, are you offline when you close Firefox?
[16:33] <talvigi> not some times not but may be i get some time disconnected from net
[16:34] <talvigi> but i have never tried to make it offline by my own hands
[16:34] <micahg> talvigi: well, it remembers the state you close it in
[16:35] <talvigi> micahg than it must remember my state of being online when some times electric goes off
[18:48] <PrototypeX29A> hey friends
[19:00] <nigelb> JFo: I begin to undertand the craziness that you go through every day
[19:00] <nigelb> bug 182473
[19:00] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 182473 in lynx (Ubuntu) (and 2 other projects) "rtl8187 drops connection (affects: 23) (dups: 4) (heat: 266)" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/182473
[19:01] <nigelb> someone opened a lynx task :x
[19:01] <nigelb> (I just closed it)
[19:01] <Pici> heh
[19:02] <JFo> yeah
[19:02] <JFo> multiply that by about 6000 :)
[19:02]  * nigelb o.O
[19:04] <drew212> is there a way i can create a virtual fresh ubuntu install?
[19:04] <hggdh> drew212: well, yes, booting from the ISO image and installing it
[19:04] <drew212> ahh, good plan
[19:04] <hggdh> :-)
[19:05] <joaopinto> uh,, odd question
[19:05] <drew212> is there a virtual machine i could use?
[19:05] <nigelb> hggdh: how is that a virtual fresh intsall?
[19:05] <joaopinto> virtualbox
[19:05] <nigelb> :P
[19:05] <Pici> Testdrive?
[19:05] <hggdh> nigelb: rephrasing: booting from -- say -- testdrive
[19:05] <hggdh> Pici: indeed
[19:05] <nigelb> hggdh: hehe
[19:05] <Pici> I was trying to think of the name.
[19:06] <nigelb> Has everyone seen http://justanothertriager.wordpress.com/2010/06/04/operation-cleansweep-launched/ ?
[19:06] <hggdh> nigelb: yes :-)
[19:06] <nigelb> We could really use some help over there.  Even 1 patch a day helps :)
[19:07] <nigelb> hggdh: \o/
[19:07] <drew212> idk how to search for patches =X
[19:07] <nigelb> drew212: Its on the post I think
[19:08] <drew212> *reading
[19:08] <nigelb> I'm headed to bed, night folks :)
[19:21] <drew212> hey micahg
[19:21] <micahg> drew212: hi
[19:21] <micahg> drew212: I just realized that the old untouched bug comment say 10.04 dev release which should be 10.10
[19:22] <drew212> 10.10? i thought we were on 10.04?
[19:22] <micahg> drew212: 10.10 is the devel release
[19:24] <drew212> should we change the wiki?
[19:24] <micahg> drew212: done already :)
[19:24] <drew212> damn, i was on it too =D
[19:25] <drew212> is bug 589784 a firefox bug? it should be a nautilus bug
[19:25] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 589784 in firefox (Ubuntu) "No Proper Thumbnail For All Image Files (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/589784
[19:28] <drew212> micahg: you agree?
[19:29] <micahg> drew212: yep, move to nautilus
[19:30] <micahg> drew212: keep in mind that people use report a bug in firefox since it's the only place in the stable release to submit a bug w/out using apport on the cli
[19:30] <drew212> kk
[19:31] <drew212> kk
[21:31] <genux> micahg: .. soz I was not around during the week, regarding the triaging of that bug
[21:31] <micahg> genux: k, I should be on Sunday
[21:32] <genux> what sort of time ? I could be around about 7-9pm UTC ?
[21:32] <micahg> genux: I should be around
[21:32] <genux> micahg: great :) what sort of time ? I could be around about 7-9pm UTC ?
[21:34] <PrototypeX29A> i have 66 mails in my IMap inbox from which only 31 are collected, this is really disgusting as this can really fuck up work flow
[21:34] <PrototypeX29A> i mean it just does show some emails
[21:36] <PrototypeX29A> is there anyway to figure out why this happens?
[21:48] <zus> where does vbox make its virtual disc?
[21:49] <ddecator> ~/.VirtualBox/HardDisks/
[21:50] <zus> oh -  wrong channel but thank you ddecator
[21:50] <zus> this has gotten me so frustrated...
[22:07] <[CM]> question, after being logged on for more than 14 hours my ADD REMOVE users quits working in 10.04 you can click on Add all day and nothing happens
[22:13] <charlie-tca> Your sudo permissions have expired; you must reopen the ADD/Remove Users windows again
[22:14] <charlie-tca> root permissions have a time limit, unless you modify the configuration
[22:55] <zus> is there a link for virtualbox bugs? i cant install ubuntu on it.. nor do i see an option for mounting .iso files to try another os. one other person was having trouble with lucid install on a vbox.
[22:55] <PrototypeX29A> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/evolution/+bug/247364
[22:55] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 247364 in evolution (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Some emails are not displayed but are saved in the mailbox file (affects: 6) (heat: 61)" [Medium,Triaged]
[22:55] <PrototypeX29A> this bug is really old and nasty, :/
[22:56] <micahg> zus: depends on if you
[22:56] <micahg> zus: if you're use -ose or not
[22:57] <micahg> hggdh: ^^ evo bug :)
[22:58] <zus> micahg,  hmm didnt notice....the -ose (i dont have the -ose one)
[23:02] <micahg> zus: which version of virtualbox
[23:04] <zus> oracle i think it does not have  -ose, after checking the repositories  i see a 3.1 sun virtualbox....
[23:04] <hggdh> looking
[23:04] <micahg> zus: which version do you have
[23:04] <micahg> zus: 3.2 is in lucid-backports for ose and maverick
[23:05] <zus> how do i get them?
[23:05] <micahg> zus: well, depends on my original question, are you running the ose version or the virtualbox.org version?
[23:05] <zus> im using kpackagekit to remove the oracle virtualbox some reason its not letting me install 3.1 sun virtualbox
[23:06] <micahg> zus: oracle is newer
[23:06] <zus> virtualbox.org (wich hopefully was removed)
[23:06] <micahg> zus: here are instructions for getting the latest version: http://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Linux_Downloads
[23:07] <zus> thanks
[23:07] <zus> this is exactly what i ahve done  a few days ago
[23:08] <zus> since then after trying to get ktorrent 4 compiled and that didnt work...i reisntalled fresh. now  vbox  isnt cooperating.
[23:08] <micahg> zus: 3.2.2 was just released
[23:09] <zus> a few days ago, not even a week
[23:11] <hggdh> PrototypeX29A: what about this bug?
[23:12] <PrototypeX29A> hggdh: i think i might still have it
[23:12] <zus> thanks micahg  for pointing  out the  ose portion. im going to try it.
[23:13] <micahg> zus: ose doesn't have USB support
[23:13] <PrototypeX29A> hggdh: i'm not sure wether my evolution does download it and just doesn't show it or whether it fails to fetch the maill
[23:14] <hggdh> PrototypeX29A: keep in mind that this bug deals with messages being marked as junk. Is this your case?
[23:14] <PrototypeX29A> hggdh: i couldn't use tail as in the bug report, as my mail isn't in the local mailbox (never figured out how to get the nmail there) but in the mailbox for the specific imap server
[23:15] <PrototypeX29A> hggdh: it is?
[23:15]  * zus is ready to throw this pc into the trash!
[23:15] <hggdh> PrototypeX29A: yes... although a lot of people came in with *other* issues
[23:16] <zus> micahg,  i cant win for losing.
[23:16] <micahg> zus: ?
[23:17] <PrototypeX29A> hggdh: the original poster doesn't mention junk filter
[23:17] <hggdh> PrototypeX29A: no, the OP did not. But this was his problem
[23:17] <hggdh> and I commented early on on that
[23:18] <zus> micahg, this stupid vbox . monday i was ok tuesayd i reinstalled my os  todays vox dont work
[23:18] <PrototypeX29A> hggdh: then i should check my junk, as the symptoms are the same
[23:19] <hggdh> PrototypeX29A: might be a good idea, yes.
[23:19] <PrototypeX29A> i have three empty junk folders (1 per imap server and 1 for the overall thing)
[23:21] <PrototypeX29A> here you agree that there is a problem and sent it upstream: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/evolution/+bug/247364/comments/13
[23:21] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 247364 in evolution (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Some emails are not displayed but are saved in the mailbox file (affects: 6) (heat: 60)" [Medium,Triaged]
[23:21] <PrototypeX29A> the upstream bug is still unconfirmed
[23:21] <hggdh> PrototypeX29A: OK. Then this is *not* your bug. Let's not make the bug even more confusing
[23:22] <hggdh> PrototypeX29A: try View/Hide Deleted msgs -- unmark it
[23:22] <hggdh> and see if there is a difference
[23:23] <hggdh> PrototypeX29A: then try View/Show hidden msgs
[23:26] <PrototypeX29A> i think this did not change anything, but i just clicked something called "clear" in the search menu
[23:26] <PrototypeX29A> now i see more messages
[23:28] <PrototypeX29A> hggdh: i guess it shows now all messages
[23:28] <hggdh> PrototypeX29A: which setting?
[23:28] <hggdh> oooohhhh
[23:28] <PrototypeX29A> i don't now there is Search -> Clear
[23:29] <hggdh> you had a search running...
[23:29] <hggdh> yes. This very much might be it -- searches are remembered, and they are not clearly visible
[23:29] <PrototypeX29A> yes i was looking whether there are some obvious filters
[23:29] <hggdh> (upstream is working on it, making searches more clearly visible)
[23:30] <PrototypeX29A> thanks for you help
[23:30] <hggdh> PrototypeX29A: welcome. You might, just in case, add a comment in the bug about it (may be a similar situation with others)
[23:31] <PrototypeX29A> the one i posted?
[23:31] <hggdh> yes
[23:31] <PrototypeX29A> ok
[23:32] <hggdh> PrototypeX29A: thank you, I appreciate


[07:41] <karthik_> hey could any one please tell me wats the difference between viewport and workspace
[15:17] <scott8035> I have an external monitor hooked up to my laptop, and I'm using both screens
[15:18] <scott8035> Everything works fine EXCEPT the external monitors screen is partly duplicated onto the right edge of the laptop screen
[15:18] <scott8035> Is there some magic trick to make this go away?


[00:31] <Synthead> is there a way to do a network install from the generic ubuntu server cd (14.04 LTS)?
[01:08] <Synthead> well, I ended posting it on askubuntu anyway http://askubuntu.com/questions/708356/how-can-i-install-from-network-sources-using-the-generic-ubuntu-server-cd
[01:46] <roaksoax> 3/win 3
[02:10] <nacc> Synthead: do you mean making sure you're up to date during the install? or do you mean loading hte installer components over the network?
[09:51] <Voyage_> Hi
[09:52] <Voyage_> http://oi65.tinypic.com/r8s2ux.jpg  I have enabled headers and getting correct CORS in headers (access-control-allow-orig...	*) but still I cannot access the inner dome or page height of an iframe in side  a parent page. It says "Error: Permission denied to access property "document"" any clue?
[12:01] <jak2000> hi all i have a crontab task (with mysqldump command) when run the task thhe backup was generated in 0 bytes, but when run same command manually it generate the correct backup, any advice how to know why? thanks
[12:08] <andol> jak2000: Any stderr output, captured by mail? Perhaps some PATH or other environment issue?
[12:10] <andol> jak2000: Unless you have a local MTA setup, perhaps you can modify the script to write STDERR to a separate file?
[12:34] <roaksoax> q/win 13
[12:37] <koolhead17> hello world
[13:25] <jak2000> andol!
[13:25] <jak2000> i have full paths
[13:27] <jak2000> see please: http://pastie.org/10625270
[13:38] <jak2000> andol?
[15:44] <LzrdKing> how can i determine why a 12.04 server spontaneously rebooted?
[15:44] <LzrdKing> logs look normal one moment, and then everything is starting up the next
[15:49] <lordievader> Disk failure?
[15:50] <LzrdKing> would that be logged anywhere?
[15:51] <lordievader> Well that might be a problem ;) Suppose you want to write to the disk, but the disk failed...
[15:51] <LzrdKing> the logging volume didn't fail
[15:52] <lordievader> Hmm, I'd check SMART anyways.
[15:52] <LzrdKing> yes, thats a good idea, thank you
[15:53] <TJ-> power-loss would be the obvious candidate
[15:53] <LzrdKing> TJ-: yes, but to only one server of many in a rack?
[15:54] <LzrdKing> i'm not sure how the rack is powered, but i'd thikn there would be other issues too
[15:54] <LzrdKing> i'll keep that in mind
[15:55] <LzrdKing> but how could i tell if that was the issue?
[16:03] <TJ-> LzrdKing: local PSU issues possibly. Does the server have IPMI? could remote-hands of accidentially nudged cables on that rack - or is it caged? etc
[16:03] <LzrdKing> lordievader: Device does not support SMART
[16:04] <LzrdKing> TJ-: yes it does
[16:04] <TJ-> LzrdKing: anything in the logs of the *other* servers at the time that server died?
[16:04] <LzrdKing> i'll look
[16:04] <jge> good morning guys, happy friday. I have a question, I have a VM that takes long to boot up. It hangs saying the following: Waiting for network configuration, Up to 60 more seconds for network configuration .."
[16:05] <jge> I use /etc/network/interfaces to configure networking
[16:05] <LzrdKing> TJ-: IPMI might be able to indicate better what happened?
[16:05] <lordievader> LzrdKing: Huh? Is it a non-standard disk?
[16:05] <jge> not sure what could be causing this, Ubuntu Server 14.04 LTS
[16:06] <TJ-> lordievader: could be behind RAID controller
[16:06] <nacc> jge: so eventually it does come up w/ networking?
[16:07] <TJ-> jge: that times out if the network isn't available; check the config, are you trying to automount remote network file-systems?
[16:07] <LzrdKing> yes, its an SMC RAID
[16:08] <lordievader> Ah, that explains it indeed.
[16:09] <jge> nacc: yep it comes up fine
[16:09] <jge> TJ-: nope
[16:11] <jge> this is what my /etc/network/interfaces looks like:http://pastie.org/private/jcat5qnhb3debzh4fodxuw
[16:11] <jge> very simple, I'm wondering if it's because the next hop for that static route is on a different subnet
[16:12] <jge> I'll remove it and test
[16:13] <jge> ha, that did it!
[16:13] <jge> freaking booted in seconds :D
[16:16] <LzrdKing> i have a laptop that hangs there for a while too, i should look at that
[16:18] <TJ-> jge for the reasoning of that message see /etc/init/failsafe.conf
[16:25] <jge> TJ-: will do, thank you.
[17:11] <pod_> When ever I try to boot into ubuntu I keep getting this error http://postimg.org/image/yi2biav9n/
[17:12] <nacc> pod_: and it doesn't boot? or do some devices not work? do you have a USB hub?
[17:13] <pod_> I am using a desktop and only using the usb ports that are on my motherboard.
[17:14] <pod_> Ubuntu is already installed on my hard drive
[17:14] <nacc> pod_: is your concern the messages themselves, or is something specifically not working?
[17:16] <pod_> I am just trying to fix the error
[17:18] <nacc> pod_: I believe that is indicating an issue with a USB hub, including possibly the one on your mobo. Could be insufficient power (if it was external, e.g.) for the load, etc. Does it happen w/o anything plugged into the USB ports on the motherboard? Do any of the USB ports on your machine work?
[17:19] <pod_> Yeah I tried booting back into Ubuntu when only the keyboard plugged in and still get the same error.
[17:20] <pod_> When ever I use debian all the ports work fine
[17:20] <nacc> pod_: ok, and do your devices work? e.g., your usb keyboard?
[17:20] <nacc> pod_: what version of Ubuntu and what version of Debian?
[17:21] <pod_> ubuntu 14.04 and debian 8.1
[17:25] <nacc> pod_: 14.04.3 or 14.04.0? that is, which kernel probably matters, as 8.1 uses 3.16.7 (I think) and 14.04.0 used 13.13 (and each .x update has bumped that, so for instance, 14.04.3 is on 3.19
[17:25] <nacc> if Debian 8.1 worked without the errors, I would guess it's just a kernel fix and I'd try the latest 14.04.3 release
[17:25] <nacc> if possible
[17:26] <pod_> Okay I'll wipe the older ubuntu and install newer ubuntu
[17:27] <nacc> pod_: so you were on an older ubuntu before? shouldn't be ncessary to wipe it, just boot the live image and see if it works?
[17:27] <LzrdKing> TJ-: ilo has nothing useful logged either
[17:28] <pod_> I upgraded from 12.04
[17:29] <patdk-wk> nacc, it only bumped it if you started with 14.04.2 as the install base
[17:29] <patdk-wk> not if you upgraded to 14.04.3
[17:29] <LzrdKing> is there a way to run a raid utility without rebooting?
[17:29] <nacc> patdk-wk: good point, sorry
[17:31] <patdk-wk> not sure why a raid utility would needa reboot
[17:31] <patdk-wk> unless it requires dos/windows
[17:31] <pod_> Software raid
[17:32] <nacc> patdk-wk: my understanding was that 14.04(.0) was 3.13 based, 14.04.2 was 3.16 based, 14.04.3 was 3.19 based, and 14.04.4 will be 4.2 based? although those may be specific packages you pick to install from the HWE stack
[17:33] <LzrdKing> i don't know, i've only ever seen raid info come up during a boot when it says siomehting like "press F2 to configure"
[17:34] <patdk-wk> nacc, that is true
[17:34] <patdk-wk> but you have to INSTALL 14.04.2 from a iso for HWE to be enabled
[17:34] <nacc> patdk-wk: ah i see what you're saying
[17:34] <nacc> patdk-wk: yep, makes sense
[17:35] <patdk-wk> or enable it yourself
[17:35] <patdk-wk> for me personally, hwe has been nothing but problems
[17:35] <nacc> patdk-wk: like what?
[17:35] <patdk-wk> due to kernel dmks build issues
[17:35] <nacc> ah
[17:35] <nacc> external modules?
[17:35] <patdk-wk> external to the kernel
[17:35] <nacc> yeah, sorry, that's what i meant
[17:35] <patdk-wk> the packages dkms packages don't maintain kernel compatability with HWE kernels
[17:36] <patdk-wk> so using open-vm-tools, xtables, ..., can cause you lots of issues
[17:36] <patdk-wk> though, open-vm-tools is better lately though
[17:36] <nacc> well, the (upstream) kernel doesn't guarantee API or ABI compatability release-to-release; that's probably the biggest issue?
[17:36] <patdk-wk> yes
[17:36] <pod_> I had to fix a broken part of the kernel from a old verison of ubuntu to fix error 71
[17:38] <patdk-wk> and I had an issue with libc and hwe kernel
[17:38] <patdk-wk> but that is so esoteric, I didn't dig into it much, once I found it was a libc issue
[17:39] <patdk-wk> but that is the other kernel api/abi problem
[17:40] <nacc> patdk-wk: interesting, i haven't personally seen those problems, but i bet a bug would be appreciated :)
[17:41] <patdk-wk> I thought about it, but reproducing it, by not me, would be impossible :)
[17:41] <patdk-wk> so I didn't bother
[17:41] <nacc> heh
[17:42] <patdk-wk> it's a closed source binary, that I have heavily hacked
[17:42] <nacc> ah
[17:42] <patdk-wk> and is failing on an exec call to run sendmail
[17:42] <patdk-wk> or rather, it works, but stdin isn't working right
[17:42] <patdk-wk> but in all other cases, it works
[19:14] <Razva> hey folks! I would like to test the Unbuntu Cloud (MAAS, Juju, Landscape etc) on a couple of lased bare-metal servers. note that these servers don't offer a vlan, so all I have is external IPv4 IPs. can I work this out, or do I need to have everything in the same place? I'm reading about MAAS right now, and from my understanding it needs to be all in the same network, as MAAS is basically
[19:14] <Razva> setting up LAN IPs via DHCP?
[19:15] <sarnold> Razva: indeed, maas does pxe via dhcp. probably your ISP won't be impressed if you start offering dhcp over the internet :)
[19:16] <Razva> sarnold yyyup. :) ok, so what's the solution in my case?
[19:16] <Razva> I really don't have 5 PCs at home in order to test it out, nor a powerful PC to install/run eveyrthing virtualized.
[19:17] <Razva> so I was thinking to buy 5 cheap (kimsufi) bare-metal servers and start playing
[19:17] <dlb> can someone help me with kvm?  I have a 64 bit 14.04.3 install but kvm keeps making 32 bit vms. --arch is set for amd64. Any thoughts on what to look at?
[19:18] <sarnold> dlb: are you perchance running 32bit guests by accident?
[19:19] <dlb> I am trying to build the guests.  When I build them, they are 32 bit.  I expected 64 bit.
[19:19] <sarnold> Razva: you may wish to try in #maas .. my best guess is something like set up an openvpn or ipsec vpn over your five cheap hosts, and virtualize a machine on each or something. it's not a great idea. hehe.
[19:19] <dlb> The host is 64 bit
[19:20] <Razva> sarnold already did, nobody is replying right now. :|
[19:21] <Razva> is MAAS mandatory?
[19:21] <sarnold> Razva: no
[19:22] <sarnold> Razva: maas can make deploying openstack more convenient, since you can use juju to deploy the openstack software to the hardware; but you can certainly install openstack by hand on the machines
[19:23] <sarnold> Razva: I hope kimsufi has some way to firewall those machines off from the internet; I slightly doubt openstack services are intended to be exposed on the public routable internet :)
[19:24] <Razva> sarnold it's just some test machines, I won't store any data
[19:25] <Razva> yeah so the whole idea was to use ubuntu cloud as I'm an OpenStack newb :|
[19:25] <sarnold> Razva: good start; I'm just not convinced thta the services are sufficiently defensive about their inputs :/
[19:26] <Razva> will Autopilot work, or is that MAAS dependant?
[19:28] <sarnold> I think it requires maas
[19:32] <Razva> darn
[19:32] <Razva> so at this point basically ubuntu cloud is "useless" in my case?
[19:32] <Razva> because Autopilot is the main reason to use the ubuntu cloud vs "standard openstack"
[19:40] <sarnold> Razva: that might be the case. perhaps you can still use e.g. juju with the charms to deploy openstack if you use the ssh provider to juju..
[19:42] <sarnold> autopilot may not work for you but you might still be spared the difficulty of setting up openstack services manually :)
[19:51] <Razva> sarnold true... is there any manual of some sort, that will spare me of setting up?
[19:53] <sarnold> Razva: not that I know of; I think it's mostly assumed that if you're interested in openstack, you've got the hardware on site to make it happen :/
[19:54] <sarnold> Razva: so putting together something a bit piecemeal out of cheap servers already on a cloud provider is a bit off the well-worn path.
[19:54] <sarnold> Razva: this looks like The Guide for using juju with the ssh provider: https://jujucharms.com/docs/1.24/config-manual
[19:55] <sarnold> Razva: you may need to read the autopilot script to figure out which specific settings it's using for which services, and you can find the service charms at e.g. https://jujucharms.com/q/?tags=openstack
[19:57] <Razva> I'm curious, how do you handle mutiple physical locations in this case?
[19:57] <sarnold> you'd define different availability zones
[19:58] <Razva> ok, but how can MAAS allocate IPs into a totally different physical location?
[19:58] <Razva> you need to have vlans between physical locations or...?
[19:59] <sarnold> I think each availability zone would have its own MAAS configurations; if one is flooded or vaporized or whatever, you wouldn't want services in the others to die as a result
[19:59] <Razva> aha, so you have more MAAS configs into the same Landscape/Autopilot?
[20:01] <sarnold> hmmmmm, I wonder, I forgot that autopilot is now integrated into landscape. :/  I wonder if I've been on the wrong foot this whole conversation. (I'm sorry, it'd been ~six months since I last looked into autopilot...)
[20:02] <sarnold> I wonder if the "new" autopilot still requires brand new machines or if you can use landscape to add existing machines into a cloud..
[20:04] <Razva> any idea where should I ask?
[20:04] <Razva> http://askubuntu.com/questions/708608/playing-with-ubuntu-cloud-on-different-machines-without-vlan
[20:05] <sarnold> jcastro_: http://askubuntu.com/questions/708608/playing-with-ubuntu-cloud-on-different-machines-without-vlan  ^^^
[20:14] <Razva> oh, so I can run it in vSphere locally on my "medium-sized i7 PC"?
[20:15] <jcastro_> on it
[20:15] <Razva> yeah, on it
[20:16] <Razva> just installed vSphere (free) so brb reboot
[20:16] <sarnold> maybe; I saw int eh virtualized bit that there's a 8gigs memory suggestion/requirement for the machines.. and while that probably doesn't actually mean 40 gigs, it might not run great if you've only got e.g. 16 available ..
[20:16] <Razva> sarnold I just want to see how it works...that's all...
[20:22] <jcastro_> I think these days we can smoosh it onto like three servers
[20:28] <jcastro_> zul: heya, is all your lxd/openstack stuff landed somewhere? That might be an interesting option
[20:32] <jcastro_> sarnold: wow, you're not going to believe how simple the answer is
[20:32] <jcastro_> http://openstack.astokes.org/
[20:39] <sarnold> jcastro_: dude.
[20:39] <geetar> Can someone help me determine why I cannot set up a print server on a ubuntu server?  "nmap" from a wireless laptop does not see the open 631 port but "nmap" from the server itself reports that the port is open.
[20:40] <jcastro_> sarnold: I know right, dude look at the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eUoamVBzFI
[20:40] <sarnold> geetar: check netstat -lntp, make sure it's bound to a public IP address or *
[20:40] <jcastro_> openstack on a nuc
[20:40] <sarnold> jcastro_: I just watched the w hole thing. insane.
[20:40] <sarnold> any idea how much RAM's in that?
[20:42] <nacc> sarnold: quick googling indicate some models have capacity up to 16G, the latest ones seem expandable to 32G
[20:43] <sarnold> nacc: it feels like a lot to ask of an 8gig machine but 16.. maybe. hehe. :)
[20:43] <nacc> http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/nuc/overview.html
[20:43] <nacc> sarnold: yeah :)
[20:44] <nacc> might try that out when I reinstall my 32G box at home
[20:54] <geetar> sarnold: I guess I am doing it wrong, what do you mean "bound" to a public ip address?
[20:55] <geetar> sarnold:  otherwise I do not understand the output.
[20:57] <sarnold> geetar: sockets are 'bound' to an <IP,port> pair; that lets you run one webserver locally on <IP_ADDRESS>:80 but a different webserver on <IP_ADDRESS>:80 and a third on <IP_ADDRESS>:80.
[20:58] <sarnold> geetar: so this is checking if cups is configured to only listen on e.g.<IP_ADDRESS>, in which case it won't be visible off the machine, or if it is bound toa specific IP that you're not talking with, or if it is bound to that port on any IP..
[20:58] <sarnold> geetar: this lets you know if you need to fix the firewall configuration on a machine or router or if you need to fix the daemon configuration
[21:07] <geetar> sarnold: ah, so I don't understand the output.  The result of "netstat -lntp" on the server is at http://paste.ubuntu.com/13942789/.  Note I can ping the server from the laptop.
[21:08] <sarnold> geetar: on my system cups is listening on 631, it looks like the same for yours, lines 14 and 27
[21:09] <geetar> sarnold:  Same for mine.  So, could it be the router is blocking 631 traffic?
[21:09] <sarnold> geetar: is your router perhaps forbidding wireless connections from communicating with wired? try connecting to port 22 or port 80 to see if this is unique to this service or computer..
[21:10] <sarnold> geetar: are you using iptables or ufw or similar firewall on this system?
[21:11] <geetar> sarnold: port 80 works, I have a wiki on the server.
[21:11] <geetar> sarnold: that I can access from wireless.
[21:13] <geetar> sarnold: I will see if it is iptables or ufw.  I was thinking it was the router, but it should not be if I can access the wiki.  Thanks for helping me think it through.
[21:13] <zul> jcastro_, yes we have bundles for them
[21:13] <sarnold> geetar: it might still be the router.. hehe. lots of fun places for a firewall to live. ;)
[21:14] <geetar> sarnold: drats.
[21:31] <jcastro_> zul: I found the single node installer, I'm good
[21:31] <jcastro_> zul: that thing is brilliant btw
[21:35] <geetar> sarnold:  The first problem was the firewall as you suspected.  I fixed that and got into the CUPS webpage.  Still not printing because no admin access through browser but I think I can fix that.  Why did nmap run on the server report that its 631 port was open if it was blocked by its firewall?
[21:36] <sarnold> geetar: the firewall probably only blocked packets coming into the ethernet cards or leaving via the ethernet cards; when run locally, they go over the lo interface, which is only rarely firewalled
[21:36] <geetar> sarnold: thanks again
[21:37] <sarnold> (well, I don't think I've _ever_ seen lo firewalled; it's possible, though. :)
[21:51] <soahccc> when I install fail2ban does it do something out of the box? I only want it to do something custom not SSH, etc.
[21:53] <RoyK> soahccc: iirc it does ssh out of the box - but it's easy to configure it to do whatever you want
[21:53] <patdk-wk> well, it will detect
[21:53] <patdk-wk> but if it blocks properly, based on whatever firewall your using
[21:53] <patdk-wk> you might need to adjust it
[21:54] <soahccc> RoyK: yeah if you know regex :) I'm afraid I ban all requests
[21:54] <RoyK> soahccc: then learn regex ;)
[21:54] <RoyK> soahccc: it's not too hard
[21:55] <RoyK> soahccc: setup a VM first and try a bit before you go in production
[21:56] <soahccc> RoyK: where is the fun in that ;) nginx + path + status code, can't be that hard
[22:38] <soahccc> I hope fail2ban tails the file after reading it once :S It takes forever to parse my little 4 GB access log


[00:23] <evelyn> hi guys im having some trouble installing xubuntu x386 11.10 from a USB drive
[00:30] <GridCube> what kind of problem?
[00:30] <GridCube> does the USB turn into a fire?!
[00:30] <GridCube> D:
[00:31] <Mahmoud> hi, can i install a copy of evince that is linked against gtk2 instead of gtk3?
[00:31] <GridCube> i guess
[00:31] <Mahmoud> how
[00:31] <GridCube> xubuntu has both engines so
[00:31] <GridCube> just install it
[00:32] <Mahmoud> just do sudo apt-get install evince?
[00:32] <Marion> So after I do xset dpms what do I do
[00:33] <GridCube> Mahmoud, that should install a version of evince yes
[00:33] <GridCube> i don't know if that would be gtk3 or 2 tho
[00:34] <ochosi> Mahmoud: depending on your version of x/ubuntu you'll either get gtk3 or gtk2
[00:34] <GridCube> !info evince
[00:34] <ochosi> Mahmoud: until 11.04 you'll get evince gtk2
[00:34] <ochosi> Mahmoud: only in 11.10 there's the gtk3 version of evince
[00:36] <Marion> Ochosi if I install 11.10 will it just replace my current distribution
[00:37] <GridCube> what distribution do you have Marion ?
[00:37] <Mahmoud> ochosi: i have 11.10 but want evince linked against gtk2
[00:38] <Marion> 11.04
[00:39] <ochosi> Marion: i guess it's not entirely easy to get the gtk2 version
[00:39] <ochosi> eehm
[00:39] <ochosi> i mean Mahmoud, not Marion
[00:39] <Mahmoud> sad
[00:40] <Mahmoud> will go dirty mode then (dirty stuff at xubuntu)
[00:40] <ochosi> Mahmoud: why would you want the gtk2 version?
[00:40] <ochosi> i mean what's the expected gain?
[00:41] <Mahmoud> just to use gtk2 themes
[00:41] <Mahmoud> i'll edit hte gtk2 theme and rename stuff to make it appear as gtk3
[00:41] <Mahmoud> see how it works
[00:41] <GridCube> Mahmoud, xubuntu has the same theme on gtk3 than gtk2
[00:42] <Mahmoud> their default theme is somewhat white and screwed my eyes
[00:42] <GridCube> oh
[00:44] <Mahmoud> what's the latest one? dark_days?
[00:44] <Mahmoud> or greybird
[00:44] <ochosi> Mahmoud: yeah, that's a problem. no quick'n'easy solution for that
[00:44] <ochosi> greybird is the only xubuntu-theme that has gtk2/3 support
[00:45] <Mahmoud> damn. the gtk3 themes are structured very differently (.css files)
[00:47] <ochosi> Mahmoud: yep i know, i made greybird's gtk3 variant (and the gtk2 one in fact :) )
[00:49]  * GridCube was going to blame ochosi for not making a new albatross theme but he will not because he respects ochosi's hard work :D
[00:52] <ochosi> hehe
[00:54] <Mahmoud> greybird still sucks
[00:55] <Mahmoud> i use atolm + my own changes so that i see no white bg at all while still being useable
[00:56] <Mahmoud> white bg is just for the stupids who are still thinking that lcd/crt/plazma are white papers
[01:38] <rhin0> whats causing "dbus-daemon" to hog 100% of my cpu -- do I have a rootkit or something -- 100% of cpu from bootup
[01:45] <rhin0> /etc/int.d/dbus restart have to run even after reboot -- to get cpu down from 100% .. what's it doing?  (dbus-daemon)
[01:46] <rhin0> I suspect it's "gnome services" in startup
[01:58] <rhin0> i don't even know what uses "dbus-daemon"
[01:58] <rhin0> "messaging"
[02:02]  * GridCube has no idea
[02:05] <Marion> Hey gridcube how hard is it to upgrade from 11.04 to 11.10
[02:06] <GridCube> i would guess not so hard
[02:06] <GridCube> but as i always do clean installs i don't really know
[02:06] <GridCube> you should delete all the . starting folders on your home though
[02:06] <GridCube> all the ones you are sure you don't need to keep
[02:07] <GridCube> so you dont keep conflicting config files
[02:07] <GridCube> and it should work pretty well
[02:08] <Marion2> Stupid android
[02:08] <GridCube> :P
[02:09] <Marion2> So if I install 11.10 will it just replace the current distribution
[02:10] <GridCube> pretty much, thats the idea
[02:10] <well_laid_lawn> the upgrade went fine here
[02:10] <GridCube> :) ^^ better help then :D
[02:10] <Marion2> And would my files be safe our do I need to move them to my secondary hdd
[02:11] <GridCube> Marion2, thats ALWAYS a good idea
[02:11] <well_laid_lawn> should always be backing up anyway ;)
[02:11] <GridCube> let me repeat it THATS ALWAYS A GOOD IDEA
[02:11] <Marion2> Who said I have good ideas
[02:13] <babble> lag? sigh.
[02:14] <Marion2> Ok so any changes I made to say dpms or setting up auto mount would I need to redo that
[02:16] <GridCube> Marion2, on upgrades, i don't think so, but that could happen
[02:16]  * GridCube has never had much luck whit upgrades
[02:16] <rhin0> I wouldn't do it
[02:17] <rhin0> would clean install
[02:17] <rhin0> think I only did an upgrade to 10.10 went ok though
[02:17] <GridCube> yes i would do a clean install too
[02:17] <GridCube> but then you need to reconfigure everything
[02:18] <GridCube> :P thats not so hard when you remember how to edit fstab or save a copy of it somewhere and then replace it
[02:26] <well_laid_lawn> with a clean install you don't get to keep things like firefox bookmarks
[02:26] <GridCube> >save the json file >restore bookmarks
[02:34] <Marion2> Sorry guys I'm at work
[02:36] <Marion2> So back up my home folder and my con fig files i edited just to be on the safe side then cross my fingers to see what happens?
[02:37] <well_laid_lawn> yeppers
[02:37] <GridCube> yes
[02:37] <GridCube> if you use firefox also save your bookmarks
[02:37] <Marion2> I have my firefox profiles saved to my secondary hdd
[02:39] <GridCube> :)
[02:56]  * rhin0 wondering why usb-creator-gtk creates usb installs that fail to boot now .. is that since 11.10
[02:57] <rhin0> or is my usb key worn out
[02:57] <rhin0> naw
[03:00] <GridCube> rhin0, you using this http://unetbootin.sourceforge.net/ ?
[03:00] <rhin0> no I just use usb-creator-gtk -- blank the key - write the iso ... so far that's worked
[03:01] <GridCube> never did that
[03:01] <GridCube> unetbootin always worked for me
[03:01] <rhin0> i think i've used that before -- creates usb keys specific to the distro -- ok that will prbably work -- suffice to say I think usb-creator-gtk has stopped working in 11.10
[03:02] <GridCube> you can use an iso whit unetbootin
[03:03] <GridCube> ggg with no whit
[03:03] <rhin0> i know i've used it before -- just have used usb-creator-gtk because it's simpler -- you don't have to select what distro -- just seemed to create a bootable usb for anything (before)
[03:03]  * GridCube needs to stop writing whit
[03:04] <GridCube> :P
[03:04]  * rhin0 following the greece situation -- what will happen
[03:18] <Marion> I wish I was at home
[04:05] <KingSphinx> I'm trying to install xubuntu-desktop, but apt-get hangs at 8% trying to fetch libpurple.
[04:08] <well_laid_lawn> KingSphinx: try a different mirror
[04:09] <KingSphinx> There's a different mirror for Xubuntu?
[04:17] <well_laid_lawn> !mirror
[04:18] <well_laid_lawn> yep you select it in synaptic
[04:30] <Hannofcart> Hello, I'm trying to connect to a wireless network from a new Xubuntu install. lshw shows me that my wireless card is a BCM4311 device. I don't have any means to connect it via ethernet either so I tried the 'STA - No Intenet Access' method as described in the documentation: http://bit.ly/w0DUvf
[04:31] <Hannofcart> However, running System->Additional Drivers doesn't show any new drivers available for install
[04:31] <Hannofcart> Can someone please tell me what I ought to be doing?
[04:32] <Hannofcart> The wireless device does not show up in ifconfig
[04:32] <KingSphinx> If you're on IRC with that Xubuntu install, I think that means you got drivers working.
[04:32] <Hannofcart> KingSphinx, heh, no this is a different machine
[04:32] <KingSphinx> Oh wait... sorry. Didn't see the next posts.
[04:33] <KingSphinx> Try restarting? That usually works for me and my BCM4318.
[04:33] <Hannofcart> KingSphinx, yes, did that. Still no drivers visible
[04:36] <KingSphinx> BTW, I'm still trying to install xubuntu-desktop, and it still sticks at 8% and fails. I don't have Synaptic because I run Kubuntu on my machine.
[04:38] <Hannofcart> KingSphinx, you can make do with apt-get
[04:38] <Hannofcart> no?
[04:39] <KingSphinx> But apt-get is precisely the problem right now. When trying to install xubuntu-desktop with apt-get, it gets stuck trying to fetch libpurple and eventually fails with a "Hash suh mismatch" error.
[04:39] <KingSphinx> *sum
[04:52] <well_laid_lawn> KingSphinx: you can check in /etc/apt/sources.list which mirror you are using and maybe change it
[04:53] <evelyn> hi there, im having trouble booting into my freshly installed xubuntu install. the splash screen loads, and then i get stuck at a looping screen
[04:53] <evelyn> the screen just seems to flash over and over...
[04:55] <well_laid_lawn> evelyn: that's weird - did you do the cd check?
[04:55] <evelyn> hmm no, i think its a driver issue. seems like other people are having it here: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1807612
[04:56] <evelyn> i am able to switch to tty1 and get a login there
[04:58] <well_laid_lawn> evelyn: tried running an update?
[05:33] <Marion2> So I'm trying to boot a linux install disk and it just goes tip black after I choose install xubuntu
[05:44] <well_laid_lawn> it'll probably need a kernel boot parameter for the graphics
[06:11] <jimmy8888> hi how do i change my clock? it is incorrect by one hour
[06:15] <jimmy8888> dpkg-reconfigure tzdata fixed it
[07:37] <marion> so i burned a new copy of the xubuntu and its going to a black screen after i hit enyert on install xubuntu
[07:38] <well_laid_lawn> did you do the cd check?
[07:38] <well_laid_lawn> it'll probably need a kernel boot parameter for the graphics
[07:39] <marion> so what do i need to do lawn?
[07:39] <well_laid_lawn> first I'd check the cd from the cd's menu
[07:40] <marion> at that menu that gives me the option to install?
[07:40] <well_laid_lawn> yep
[07:40] <well_laid_lawn> do you know the graphics card?
[07:40] <marion> and that will do the kernel?
[07:40] <marion> yeah its an ati graphics card
[07:41] <well_laid_lawn> marion: it will check that the iso you burned it from is ok and that the burn went ok
[07:42] <marion> ok how do i do the kernel update then
[07:44] <well_laid_lawn> it's not an update
[07:44] <marion> ok so what will i need to do for the kernel boot parameter
[07:45] <well_laid_lawn> how did the cd check go?
[07:45] <marion> havent done it yet
[07:45] <marion> im on the linux machine
[07:46] <marion> is there a way that i can do a cd check from within
[07:47] <well_laid_lawn> I don't know about that - you could check the iso
[07:47] <well_laid_lawn> !md5
[07:49] <well_laid_lawn> I'd be checking for a bad burn that causes all sorts of issues
[07:51] <marion> ok i am redownloading just to be on the safe side
[07:51] <mikodo> sure nice to see more activity here lately .. G'nite :)
[08:01] <marion> within linux is there another program other than brasero that i can use to burn the iso
[08:02] <marion> brasero is telling me there is not enough space on the disk for the iso
[08:03] <TheSheep> marion: there are several
[08:03] <TheSheep> marion: xfburn for example
[08:04] <TheSheep> marion: or that kde one, forgot the name
[08:04] <TheSheep> marion: k3b
[08:04] <TheSheep> marion: it's also possible, that the iso is too big for your cd
[08:05] <marion> 677 iso 700 cd
[08:31] <Marion> Ok well laid lawn are you here still
[08:35] <well_laid_lawn> Marion: yep
[08:36] <well_laid_lawn> !tab | Marion
[08:37] <well_laid_lawn> Marion: you can type wel and hit the tab key and get well_laid_lawn
[09:34] <klawd> hi!
[09:34] <klawd> how can i make the terminal start in fullscreen?
[09:43] <well_laid_lawn> I can't find an option for that except hit F11 after it starts
[09:48] <klawd> i found ~/.local/share/applications
[09:48] <klawd> i guess that's key
[09:51] <well_laid_lawn> that's just the mimetypes files
[09:53] <well_laid_lawn> you could have a look at the .desktop files in /usr/share/applications
[09:57] <klawd> ok, so.. i added gnome-terminal.desktop to ~/.local/share/applications and put Exec=gnome-terminal --window --maximize in it
[09:57] <klawd> that does work but it's buggy somehow
[09:57] <klawd> it's too big
[10:00] <well_laid_lawn> why gnome-terminal?
[10:01] <well_laid_lawn> xubuntu has xfce4-terminal
[10:01] <klawd> yes, but i don't use it since it's all bold somehow
[10:03] <well_laid_lawn> if you run the gnome terminal command from a terminal is the size right?
[10:07] <klawd> i found a setting in the options that lets me set the geometry
[10:07] <klawd> that's good enough
[10:07] <well_laid_lawn> great
[12:06] <broken> morning
[12:06] <broken> can I install xubuntu from inside ubuntu?
[12:07] <gju_> yes
[12:07] <gju_> apt-get install xubuntu-desktop
[12:07] <Sysi> !purexfce
[12:08] <Sysi> and parallel works too
[12:08] <broken> thanks
[12:09] <gju_> can i somehow hide the skype icon from the xfce notification area? so far i only found how i can hide it under unity.
[12:21] <Sysi> skype's settings?
[12:26] <gju_> didn't find anything there.
[13:31] <ochosi> gju_: if you right-click the panel and get to the settings-dialog of the notification-area you can hide skype's icon
[13:31] <ochosi> gju_: but an arrow will remain to bring the hidden icons back, winxp-style
[13:37] <gju_> thanks for the tip, but it seems that skye doesn't but its icon in this part of the notification-area. at least i cannot hide it in the menu.
[13:46] <jimmy8888> hello, does somebody know how to configure bash in xubuntu so that tab-completion works for commands prefixed with 'sudo' ??
[13:47] <jimmy8888> (in a simlar way to how the 'normal' ubuntu terminal works)
[13:48] <Sysi> works like that for me..
[13:48] <jimmy8888> hmmm is it controlled by .bashrc or a different file?
[13:54] <jimmy8888> ok fixed it: `sudo aptitude install bash-completion`
[13:54] <jimmy8888> not sure why it was not installed as part of the base xubuntu-desktop metapackage...
[14:14] <surreal7z> Hi guys. Look, I have a weird problem. Xubuntu 11.10.  After rebooting computer it connects to my wireless network automatically but when i disconnect it AND try to reconnect it.. the sigh just circles on and on and doesn't connect
[14:15] <surreal7z> So, it just works when it automatically connects at startup
[14:15] <surreal7z> I think it has to do with Avahi deamon.... but not sure
[14:16] <surreal7z> Now.. I'm connected... but if I want to reconnect it will not work till I restart my computer
[14:17] <surreal7z> it's driving me insane
[14:19] <surreal7z> Also:: ad_hoc networks work::: but access point one; don't
[14:20] <surreal7z> Several times I had pop-out about Avahi service and local domain...
[14:35] <braintorch> hello. Is there a way to replace thunar with nautilus or pcmanfm properly?
[14:37] <TheSheep> braintorch: what do you mean? just use the other file manager
[14:38] <braintorch> when I open directory or removable drive from desktop it launches thunar
[14:38] <braintorch> I searched some option in xfdesktop but had no luck
[14:54] <TheSheep> braintorch: you can disable that in thunar's preferences
[14:56] <nicola> salve
[14:56] <braintorch> TheSheep: if you mean "volume management" I have disabled it already.
[14:57] <nicola> come si può cambiare il cursore di testo in xubuntu in modo da averne uno più sottile?
[14:57] <Pici> !it | nicola
[14:58] <nicola> ok
[16:01] <jimmy8888> hi is there a sticky or a faq for installing sun/oracle java in xubuntu 11.10?
[16:02] <Sysi> !java
[16:32] <KingSphinx> Reinstalled with Xubuntu 11.10 last night, and so far, I've only gotten sound partially working through my USB headset. That is, I can hear stuff, but the volume control on the headset doesn't work, I have to adjust it using pavucontrol.
[16:35] <Sysi> volume control physically doesn't work or panel applet doesn't?
[16:37] <KingSphinx> The volume applet looks like it works (it notifies me about volume changing and whatever), but sound isn't actually getting any quieter/louder, it stays at a constant volume.
[16:37] <KingSphinx> I don't know if that all got through...
[16:41] <Sysi> KingSphinx: change it to use proper mixer/device in settings
[16:46] <KingSphinx> I've tried that, but volume still doesn't work properly.
[18:07] <[h4wk]> hi 2 all
[18:07] <[h4wk]> I have a question?
[18:07] <[h4wk]> :)
[18:09] <totocheku> hi
[18:09] <totocheku> I love xUbuntu
[18:13] <[h4wk]> xD
[18:13] <[h4wk]> we all love it :D
[18:13] <Sysi> *Xubuntu (I think xbox-ubuntu was called xUbuntu)
[18:14] <[h4wk]> Sysi can you help me I have a litle question...
[18:14] <Sysi> say seomething with question mark and we'll see
[18:15] <[h4wk]> Is there any way to edit xubuntu right-click apps menu?
[18:15] <Sysi> it should be the same as panel menu
[18:16] <[h4wk]> ok...but how can it be edited?
[18:16] <Sysi> alacarte or lxmenued
[18:16] <[h4wk]> thank you....lxmenued?
[18:16] <Sysi> apt-get install --no-install-recommends alacarte
[18:16] <[h4wk]> thanks :D
[18:17] <Sysi> something like that, lxmenuedit
[18:20] <[h4wk]> Yeah this is cool :D
[18:27] <[h4wk]> @Sysi but some of options are not working...is it better to install it with recommends?
[18:52] <preecher> if used gparted to create a partition--  can i in turn "reclaim" that space/partition ?   more or less put that partition space back from where i took it from?
[19:00] <TheSheep> preecher: where did you take it from?
[19:00] <TheSheep> preecher: you can delete the partition
[19:00] <TheSheep> preecher: it will then appear as free space
[19:02] <preecher> TheSheep, i took it from my main partition where i have xubuntu installed--i was going to dual boot between a couple of different distros but decided i dont wish to do that now and want to put it back if possible  but i can always do a reinstall but was just looking for a easy way out
[19:06] <TheSheep> preecher: you can resize your old partiion when you delete that new one
[19:06] <preecher> TheSheep, i will do that then   many thanks-)
[19:11] <SiDi> hey there
[19:12] <grizly> Hi
[19:12] <SiDi> just moved to 11.10, I'd like to know among other things: what on earth were nautilus and gnome-settings-daemon installed and running on reboot // what is this new power notification icon in my notification area and how do I get rid of it // why is empathy not using my default font size anymore?
[19:12] <SiDi> and also, where is my wallpaper?
[19:15] <grizly> I just found the "Settings Manager" myself, but it seems to cover Notifications/Wallpapers/Startup stuff.. its in the middle of the app launcher
[19:16] <TheSheep> SiDi: empathy? nautilus? sounds like you have gnome installed
[19:17] <TheSheep> SiDi: the extra power manager icon is probably from gnome-power-manager
[19:17] <SiDi> TheSheep: I'm kind of furious yeah. I signed in for XFCE :D
[19:17] <grizly> Or he has a tick in the "Launch GNOME services on startup" under Compatibility options
[19:17] <TheSheep> SiDi: how did you install it?
[19:17] <SiDi> it was gnome-settings-daemon
[19:17] <SiDi> TheSheep: regular update;
[19:18] <SiDi> grizly: pretty sure I havent :d
[19:18] <TheSheep> grizly: that would not explain how they got to his disk in the first place
[19:18] <SiDi> gsd was long time uninstalled
[19:18] <TheSheep> SiDi: my theory is that you have some application installed than suddenly became dependent on nautilus in the new version
[19:18] <TheSheep> SiDi: so the update pulled it in
[19:18] <TheSheep> SiDi: but it's just a working hypothesis
[19:19] <SiDi> thats not a valid reason for that thing to think it can replace my fluffy and sweet xfdesktop
[19:19] <SiDi> and thunar
[19:19] <TheSheep> agreed, but nautilus is bad mannered like that
[19:19] <SiDi> your hypothesis is most likely right
[19:19] <TheSheep> just remove it
[19:19] <TheSheep> with package manager
[19:20] <SiDi> ahah i purged it :D
[19:20] <SiDi> now onto font size problems
[19:25] <SiDi> lol the release notes claim exaile is still the default player
[19:27] <TheSheep> to be honest I long ago lost touch with xubuntu defaults, picked my own apps for everything and sticking with them
[19:27] <TheSheep> and that's probably the best way for experienced users
[19:27] <TheSheep> that is, for those who actually care which application they are using
[19:35] <SiDi> TheSheep: yeah and thats why i dont want an upgrade to add me some apps i dont use
[19:35] <SiDi> :D
[19:37] <TheSheep> you can always remove them
[19:38] <TheSheep> but agreed, compulsive upgrading just because there is a new version is not good
[19:39] <SiDi> good bye pulseaudio
[19:40] <SiDi> i'm pissed that i update my system in order to have a recent kernel and apps and that then i have to uninstall DAEMONS that i never asked for
[19:40] <SiDi> Im not sure if i did remove xubuntu-desktop before
[19:40] <SiDi> but this still annoys me :D
[19:41] <TheSheep> pulseaudio is useful
[19:41] <SiDi> Ok, exaile is completely broken
[19:41] <SiDi> TheSheep: it's not to me :o)
[19:42] <TheSheep> SiDi: if you like to configure your sound card in every application separately, then sure, go ahead
[19:43] <SiDi> TheSheep: GStreamer provides enough interfaces for what I need
[19:44] <SiDi> i know its friday but i dont have time for troll wars :p
[19:49] <SiDi> hm
[19:50] <SiDi> ochosi: there have been changes in GStreamer
[19:50] <SiDi> ochosi: which might explain the xfce4-volumed bugs and why exaile isnt running anymore.
[19:50] <SiDi> I feel like installing debian :/
[20:05] <kapuze> does anybody know how to enable the thinkpad hotkeys under xubuntu? like Fn+F4 for suspend
[20:08] <Marion> So I am trying to run the 11.10 live cd and it wont support the kernel is there a fix
[20:11] <SiDi> kapuze: they should work by default unless your laptop's not properly recognized
[20:13] <kapuze> they are recognized well, they work under gnome
[20:18] <Marion2> So is there a fix fire the kernel
[20:19] <Arpad2> hello
[20:20] <kapuze> solved, i had to configure the shortcut in the settings
[20:22] <Arpad2> can 32 bit program versions be installed on 64 bit OS ?
[20:23] <SiDi> kapuze: then its probably that the key was bound by gnome-settings-daemon, and isnt managed by xfce. Which keys is it?
[20:23] <kapuze> Fn+F4 to suspend the computer
[20:27] <SiDi> kapuze: you might want to ask in #xfce. It should be done by xfce4-power-manager, I think. but it's been a while since I last had a look at these things
[20:30] <kapuze> SiDi: u are right man, i found a setting there in the powet-manager, thanks
[20:42] <Marion2> I am having a kernel issue
[20:47] <marion> hello everyone  I am trying to upgrade from 11.04 to 11.10 and its telling me that it cant support the kernel for the graphics. Does anyone know a way to fix this
[20:56] <xubuntu467> hi
[21:37] <pertutatis> hi, anyone know how to disable scrolling on mousepad?  (xubuntu 11.10)
[21:39] <well_laid_lawn> pertutatis: you can edit the /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/10-synaptics.conf file for that
[21:42] <pertutatis> how can i do that?
[22:00] <well_laid_lawn> pertutatis: try in a terminal   gksu mousepad /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/10-synaptics.conf
[22:00] <pertutatis> ok
[22:00] <well_laid_lawn> and turn anything with scroll in the name to off
[22:01] <pertutatis> sorry but nothing happens
[22:03] <pertutatis> what is suposed to run that?
[22:05] <executionist> what is the simplest way to video call someone from xubuntu to a windows machine?
[22:06] <well_laid_lawn> pertutatis: you'll need to at least logout for it to take affect
[22:06] <TheSheep> executionist: gmail
[22:06] <executionist> the mail client? or google talk?
[22:07] <well_laid_lawn> pertutatis: you could make the change through synclient immediately
[22:22] <pertutatis> sorry I dont get it
[22:24] <well_laid_lawn> pertutatis: synclient is the terminal application that lets you set touchpad properties
[22:24] <well_laid_lawn> man synclient
[22:25] <pertutatis> may i type man synclient on terminal?
[22:25]  * TheSheep prefers gpointing-device-settings
[22:27] <pertutatis> I'm lost here sorry