[02:44] <cannaman> For some reason there is no browser installed.
[02:44] <cannaman> In Ubuntu Mate
[02:44] <PlainDave> Firefox isn't in the menu under "Internet"?
[02:45] <cannaman> Nope
[02:45] <cannaman> When I try to install plainedave...
[02:45] <cannaman> "Unable to fetch some archives, maybe run apt-get update or try with --fix-missing?
[02:45] <cannaman> "
[02:45] <cannaman> Any ideas plaindave?
[02:46] <cannaman> Hexchat, Pidgin, Thunderbird, Transmission, Youtube
[02:47] <PlainDave> Gosh, I don't know what could have happened. Are you running 17.04?
[02:47] <DarkPsydeLord> well this was annoying
[02:48] <cannaman> PlainDave - 17.04?
[02:48] <cannaman> I'm running Ubuntu Mate for a Raspberry Pi 2.
[02:48] <DarkPsydeLord> after the upgrade i had to fight with internet again like back in those ubuntu 6.04 times
[02:48] <PlainDave> Oh, okay. I don't know anything about Ras Pi.
[02:48] <DarkPsydeLord> it was awesome XD
[02:49] <cannaman> DarkPsydeLord - Lol
[02:49] <PlainDave> sorry cannaman
[02:49] <cannaman> I tried purge, now update, will try to re-install.
[02:50] <DarkPsydeLord> im not kidding it was so familiar that i just immediately knew where to look XD
[02:51] <cannaman> DarkPsydeLord - Any suggestions for me?
[02:51] <DarkPsydeLord> about? sorry i just connected after fighting my wifi after the 17.04 upgrade
[02:52] <cannaman> Not being able to install Firefox on Ubuntu Mate via command line.
[02:53] <DarkPsydeLord> sudo apt -f?
[02:53] <DarkPsydeLord> sorry
[02:53] <DarkPsydeLord> apt install -f
[02:54] <cannaman> Just "apt install -f" or "apt install -firefox"
[02:54] <DarkPsydeLord> no that to fix dependencies
[02:54] <DarkPsydeLord> then try again
[02:54] <cannaman> oh ok, will try
[02:55] <cannaman> No still not working.
[02:55] <cannaman> So frustrating...
[02:55] <cannaman> Can you install other browsers?
[02:56] <DarkPsydeLord> try chromium?
[02:56] <DarkPsydeLord> is there an error message or something?
[02:56] <DarkPsydeLord> sudo apt install firefox?
[02:57] <cannaman> DarkPysdeLord - yes
[02:57] <cannaman> E: Unable to fetch some archives, maybe run apt-get update or try with --fix-missing?
[02:57] <DarkPsydeLord> did you?
[02:57] <cannaman> Chromium install threw - Package 'chromium' has no installation candidate
[02:58] <cannaman> DarkPysdeLord - Yes, ran update.
[02:58] <DarkPsydeLord> sudo apt update
[02:58] <cannaman> --fix-missing doesn't do anything, yeah like that.
[02:58] <cannaman> AND upgrade.
[02:59] <DarkPsydeLord> no error messages?
[03:00] <cannaman> Not for upgrade and update
[03:01] <cannaman> "sudo: unrecognized option '--fix-missing"
[03:01] <DarkPsydeLord> uhm must be missing something whats the architecture of your pc
[03:01] <cannaman> Raspberry Pi 2
[03:02] <DarkPsydeLord> o lol
[03:02] <DarkPsydeLord> then theres no firefox suitable por you
[03:02] <DarkPsydeLord> you must install iceweasel
[03:02] <DarkPsydeLord> apt-get install iceweasel --no-install-recommends
[03:03] <cannaman> Ok thanks
[03:03] <DarkPsydeLord> just remember theres no flash support for rpi
[03:03] <cannaman> DarkPysdeLord, right
[03:03] <cannaman> I had to install some different Youtube components.
[03:04] <DarkPsydeLord> i wonder if they dropped apt-get from rpi too in any case sudo apt install instead of apt-get
[03:04] <cannaman> E: Unable to fetch some archives, maybe run apt-get update or try with --fix-missing?
[03:05] <cannaman> I don't think so.
[03:05] <cannaman> Either works, but both are throwing same error.
[03:07] <DarkPsydeLord> are you connected to the internet in your rpi?
[03:07] <cannaman> yes
[03:07] <DarkPsydeLord> can you ping -c 3 google.com for example?
[03:07] <cannaman> I'm using Hexchat on it :
[03:08] <cannaman> :)
[03:08] <DarkPsydeLord> o lol
[03:08] <DarkPsydeLord> wonder if dns issue
[03:08] <cannaman> PING google.com (<IP_ADDRESS>) 56(84) bytes of data.
[03:08] <cannaman> 64 bytes from qb-in-f139.1e100.net (<IP_ADDRESS>): icmp_seq=1 ttl=43 time=100 ms
[03:08] <cannaman> 64 bytes from qb-in-f139.1e100.net (<IP_ADDRESS>): icmp_seq=2 ttl=43 time=33.0 ms
[03:08] <cannaman> 64 bytes from qb-in-f139.1e100.net (<IP_ADDRESS>): icmp_seq=3 ttl=43 time=31.7 ms
[03:08] <cannaman> --- google.com ping statistics ---
[03:08] <cannaman> 3 packets transmitted, 3 received, 0% packet loss, time 2002ms
[03:08] <cannaman> rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 31.787/55.221/100.855/32.272 ms
[03:09] <cannaman> You think I need to change the resolvers?
[03:09] <DarkPsydeLord> maybe have a quick look at /etc/resolv.conf
[03:10] <cannaman> What should I see?
[03:11] <DarkPsydeLord> try adding a different resolv like the google ones
[03:11] <cannaman> # Dynamic resolv.conf(5) file for glibc resolver(3) generated by resolvconf(8)
[03:11] <cannaman> #     DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE BY HAND -- YOUR CHANGES WILL BE OVERWRITTEN
[03:11] <cannaman> nameserver <IP_ADDRESS>
[03:11] <cannaman> search hsd1.md.comcast.net
[03:12] <DarkPsydeLord> add nameserver <IP_ADDRESS>
[03:12] <DarkPsydeLord> the dns from google that will tell a lot
[03:12] <cannaman> And <IP_ADDRESS>?
[03:12] <DarkPsydeLord> yes
[03:13] <DarkPsydeLord> but i dont actually recall doing this on my rpi
[03:13] <cannaman> what about search?
[03:13] <DarkPsydeLord> since i had it plugged directly to my router
[03:14] <DarkPsydeLord> nothing to look at search
[03:14] <cannaman> DarkPysdeLord - Device connects fast now.
[03:14] <cannaman> DarkPysdeLord - Now it is not working.
[03:15] <cannaman> DarkPsydeLord - Giving same error code I mean.
[03:15] <DarkPsydeLord> hahaha
[03:15] <cannaman> Hits ports.ubuntu.com like a mofo.
[03:16] <cannaman> F*cking comcast and verizon...
[03:16] <DarkPsydeLord> uhmm
[03:17] <DarkPsydeLord> what about running rpi-update
[03:18] <cannaman> I'll try that
[03:18] <cannaman> invalid operation
[03:19] <DarkPsydeLord> did you updated the firmware in your rpi?
[03:19] <cannaman> No
[03:19] <cannaman> How do I do that DarkPysdeLord?
[03:23] <DarkPsydeLord> well usually through the update and upgrade commands we are trying to perform
[03:24] <cannaman> ok
[03:25] <DarkPsydeLord> but i think i just asked the wrong question
[03:25] <cannaman> alright
[03:29] <DarkPsydeLord> did you used the update command at all before i mean did it work ?
[04:18] <DarkPsydeLord> oh gosh
[04:18] <DarkPsydeLord> i just freaking fought with eno1 now
[04:18] <DarkPsydeLord> :S
[08:28] <lhtd> I have to say that I love the welcome screen from mate
[09:05] <Guest17722> hi, at the start of my mate session my workspace switcher shows 4 workspaces per workspace and retutn normal only if i change the screen resolution (the screen is 4k). Do you know how to permanently fix this?
[09:06] <Guest17722> https://www.filepicker.io/api/file/VMeDm0bFSyGxTQhWYTxx?signature=45e30a241b3993bc273fe7b5d30f962f208226a9af797d64bf20249532f28151&policy=eyJleHBpcnkiOjE0OTI1OTU2MzB9
[14:16] <arduino_> jkfd
[14:16] <arduino_> d
[14:16] <arduino_> d
[14:16] <arduino_> d
[14:16] <arduino_> d
[14:16] <arduino_> d
[14:16] <arduino_> dd
[14:17] <arduino_> estoy solo
[15:21] <markb1> What's the "relative stability" of Ubuntu Mate (latest or 16.04.x) for multiple monitors (up / down). Cinnamon is making me nuts with lock-up crashes, when Monitor configs change!
[15:22] <alkisg> It should be stable :)
[15:23] <markb1> ready to abandon Cinnamon for good, and try a stable Ubu desktop (XFCE is not any better, w/N monitors and config changes)
[15:23] <alkisg> You can configure multiple monitors from xorg.conf
[15:23] <alkisg> That way you completely bypass the desktop environment code
[15:23] <markb1> Ugh -- no UI for this?   Current Ubu desktops generally ignore old X conventions (RDB files, etc)
[15:23] <alkisg> Of course there's UI
[15:24] <alkisg> But you can also configure it globally from xorg.conf and ignore the UI
[15:24] <markb1> alkisg: thanks.  It's important, I do real dev-work on ubu, and the crashes cause no end of grief.  thank you.
[15:24] <alkisg> What are "rdb files"?
[15:24] <alkisg> All Ubuntu desktops respect /etc/X11/xorg.conf...
[15:25] <alkisg> And that way you don't need to configure lightdm etc separately
[15:25] <markb1> It makes me wonder if some desktop devs really use their desktops ;)   I am on Thinkpads, really - widely used Gfx chips and HW
[15:25] <markb1> xrdb / xmodmap / .xsession / etc
[15:25] <markb1> pretty much ignored now
[15:25] <markb1> their .dot files
[15:25] <alkisg> Well, they have their place but it's not for everyone
[15:26] <alkisg> While xorg.conf still is
[15:26] <markb1> alkisg: ok, I will take that as a recommendation, thank you!
[15:26] <alkisg> np; the best way to troubleshoot crashes though is to look at /var/log/Xorg.0.log.old
[15:27] <alkisg> If your device driver crashes with certain xrandr combinations, you can avoid them
[15:27] <markb1> yeah, I would have to turn on debugging versions of X11, cinnamon etc etc -- long-time since I did a lot of X
[15:27] <markb1> but that's a good idea
[15:27] <alkisg> Not really, xorg logs its segfaults
[15:27] <alkisg> (by default)
[15:27] <markb1> if these monitors or (Thinkpad) HW were oddball, I could see why this is happening
[15:30] <markb1> I suspect cinnamon itself, though, because it spontaneously crashes itself, w/o a lockup, from time-to-time
[15:30] <alkisg> When an application crashes, xorg continues to function
[15:31] <alkisg> If you see lock-up crashes, then that's xorg
[15:31] <markb1> Yes, in this case.  Otherwise, complete weird looking screen replication, and no ability to cntl-alt-backspace or get to Linux console(s)
[15:31] <alkisg> Ctrl-alt-backspace is disabled by default
[15:32] <alkisg> If alt+ctrl+f1 doesn't function, that's  xorg
[15:32] <markb1> I think it's on, will double-check.  That still does not always work -- OK
[15:32] <markb1> That may explain the crashes across desktops (XFCE, cinnamon) that I have observed.  Surprised *everyone* is not seeing these!
[15:33] <markb1> w/N monitors and Thinkpads
[15:33] <alkisg> If it's a problem with the graphics driver as I suspect, that also explain why not everyone sees it
[15:33] <alkisg> lspci -nn -k | grep -A 2 VGA => gives useful information about the card and driver
[15:33] <markb1> vanilla Intel chipsets or W541 gfx hardware -- pretty consistent across TPad HW
[15:33] <markb1> alkisg: ah OK, right
[15:34] <markb1> Yeah, Nvidia K1000M on this Thinkpad W541
[15:35] <markb1> old, now
[15:35] <alkisg> It's best if you actually paste the output
[15:35] <alkisg> Now I don't know what driver you use
[15:36] <markb1> https://dpaste.de/apVk
[15:36] <markb1> but I have had same crashing (Xorg? combo w/Cinnamon?) with vanilla Tpad / Intel video
[15:36] <alkisg> And the output of xrandr?
[15:36] <markb1> OK
[15:36] <alkisg> You have a dual card laptop
[15:37] <markb1> In this case, yes.
[15:37] <markb1> https://dpaste.de/NY68
[15:38] <alkisg> Yeah you have a kernel with the classic eDP2 issue, it was solved a couple of months ago
[15:38] <alkisg> bbiab
[15:38] <markb1> alkisg: wow, thanks!  upgrade to ??  17.04 Ubuntu???
[15:38] <markb1> OK
[15:39] <alkisg> No, just wait for the new kernel backport
[15:39] <alkisg> Stick to lts releases...
[15:39] <markb1> except Ubuntu MATE now has new release on 17.04 (?) :)
[15:56] <markb1> alkisg: what's the kernel version to expect?  the stability is awful right now
[15:59] <alkisg> markb1: what i said is not related to stability, it's a ghost monitor that doesn't exist in reality
[16:00] <alkisg> I filed it there: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=100267
[16:00] <alkisg> With kernel 4.11 the problem was gone
[16:00] <markb1> hrm, even 17.04 ubu is shipping w/4.10, not 4.11...
[16:00] <alkisg> Yes, you'll need to use a ppa or wait more :)
[16:01] <alkisg> But it's not related to the stability issues
[16:01] <alkisg> You can try the xorg.conf, it's usually more stable than changing all the time with xrandr
[16:01] <alkisg> And the best thing to do is to look at the segfault in xorg.0.log.old
[16:01] <alkisg> So that you can google and see if it's already filed and fixed
[16:01] <markb1> OK, will do all of that.  thank you.
[16:02] <alkisg> np
[19:57] <esdwdftty> On the another HDD Gnome disk see all partitions. But HDD-2 not have the same configuration partitions. It's not a question of why. This is a statement of fact.  This have all or only for me. Chek.
[19:57] <esdwdftty> http://www.fileconvoy.com/gf.php?id=g891521cef4bd0d5d999953960.10234393de969e2ee5ca787&sts=14926279529526127112b74d74c64e1c50d7b103b893a3ad0f78
[19:59] <esdwdftty> partitions mount norm
[20:13] <esdwdftty> NTFS have first physical sector 4096
[20:15] <esdwdftty> 1 mb not useed


[19:43] <Guest4> Hi, how do I enable signing in without password.
[19:54] <igly23> Hi, how can I enable automatic sign in without password.
[19:58] <nonpas80> i looked around without finding either, maybe you can ask #ubuntu also or check ubuntu forum, there might a command line option for that, or actually maybe in lightdm, gonna check it quickly
[19:59] <nonpas80> can't find it.
[20:00] <arraybolt3> igly23: o/
[20:00] <arraybolt3> igly23: You've already installed Lubuntu, right?
[20:00] <igly23> Yes
[20:00] <arraybolt3> igly23: OK. One moment...
[20:01] <arraybolt3> (Basically there isn't a switch to do this in Lubuntu once you've already installed, but you can just change a config file and it will do what you want.)
[20:01] <arraybolt3> igly23: OK, open a terminal with Ctrl+Alt+T, then type "sudo nano /etc/sddm.conf".
[20:02] <arraybolt3> igly23: Once that's done, change the file so that it reads:
[20:02] <arraybolt3> [Autologin]
[20:02] <arraybolt3> User=<your username here>
[20:02] <arraybolt3> Session=lubuntu.desktop
[20:03] <arraybolt3> Replace <your username here> with your username - the angle brackets should not be part of the text.
[20:03] <arraybolt3> So if your username is igly23, you'd want it to say User=igly23
[20:04] <igly23> ok I've changed the config and ill restart to see if it works.
[20:05] <arraybolt3> nonpas80: ^ all the instructions for enabling autologin are above if you're interested.
[20:07] <arraybolt3> igly23: I *think* I may have mis-spelled the "Session=" line - it probably needed to be "Lubuntu.desktop", not "lubuntu.desktop".
[20:09] <igly23> On my computer the session line just said =Lubuntu so i didnt change it and it seems to work after adding the line my username
[20:10] <arraybolt3> Oh, nice!
[20:10] <igly23> Thanks a lot for your help.
[20:11] <arraybolt3> igly23: Glad to help!


[07:12] <vayan> Can we still find meizu mx4 in Europe ?
[07:49] <MCMic> Is there a gesture for closing the displayed application? I know I can switch by swiping from the right but I need two actions to close it. Is there a shortcut I’m not aware about?
[07:59] <lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/here-s-what-s-new-in-the-ubuntu-touch-ota-9-update-for-ubuntu-phones-499419.shtml
[07:59] <lotuspsychje> lookin good guys!
[08:11] <zzarr> lotuspsychje, very nice, very nice indeed
[08:12] <zzarr> I wonder.... if the MX4 lacks the hardware to output MHL, why is this here? https://github.com/meizuosc/m75/tree/master/mediatek/kernel/drivers/mhl/driver/mhl_tx_drv
[08:13] <lotuspsychje> zzarr: really dont know mate, i have bq myself..
[08:13] <zzarr> no need to tell me that it haven't been updated lately, I can see that my self
[08:15] <zzarr> the reason I'm so interested in connecting my MX4 to an external display is that... yea, it's about 2 3 times faster than my stationary computer
[08:23] <zzarr> I think it's the same with the BQ devices (lacks MHL)
[08:34]  * tathhu needs working bluetooth in nexus7, then it's time to say goodbye for a laptop
[08:35] <tathhu> or that rumored bq tablet..
[08:36] <tathhu> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bluetooth-touch/+bug/1502524
[08:49] <robin-hero> sil2100, hi, I read your mail last night, and you wrote there will be no delay for OTA-9, is this mean that the OTA-9 will be release tomorrow?
[08:49] <sil2100> robin-hero: hey! Yes, that is the current expectation :)
[08:50] <robin-hero> thanks, this would be awesome \o/ :)
[09:37] <JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Tuesday, and happy Australia Day! 😃
[09:46] <V99> and tomorrow ota :D
[09:54] <lotuspsychje> yayyy
[09:54] <lotuspsychje> you guys rocknroll!
[09:57] <victor_bq> Hi all!
[09:58] <victor_bq> quick question =)
[09:58] <victor_bq> I'm in rc 242
[09:58] <victor_bq> with krillin and I found something strange in camera
[09:59] <victor_bq> in camera settings, when selecting 4:3 and 16:9 MP shown are incorrect
[09:59] <victor_bq> I think
[10:02] <davmor2> victor_bq: will take a look, thanks for highlighting
[10:03] <victor_bq> davmor2 great! Would it be better if I look for it on Launchpad and report it if it's not reported yet¿ :)
[10:05] <teve> on my vegetahd only option available is 16:9 (19.5MP)
[10:06] <victor_bq> that's wrong too
[10:06] <victor_bq> krillin has 8Mpx sensor and vegeta 13Mpx
[10:06] <victor_bq> u're in rc to ?
[10:07] <teve> yep
[10:08] <victor_bq> would be great having that Mpx haha interpolated =)
[10:14] <davmor2> victor_bq: hmmmm so just tested the rc image on krillin, I get too different sized images 2448x4352 and 3168x4224
[10:14] <robin-hero> for me N4 shows 4:3 (8MP) on rc-proposed
[10:20] <davmor2> victor_bq: is it that the MP reported are just incorrect
[10:29] <jibel> Kaleo, ^ do you know why the MPx reported by the camera do not correspond to the resolution of the sensors? (8Mpx and 5Mpx)
[10:29] <jibel> on krillin
[10:30] <Kaleo> jibel, yes
[10:31] <Kaleo> jibel, for krillin there is 2 resolutions for each sensor
[10:31] <Kaleo> jibel, the native one and the "interpolated" one
[10:31] <Kaleo> jibel, the second one is sold by BQ as a feature
[10:31] <Kaleo> jibel, and we made the decision to keep it
[10:31] <jibel> victor_bq, ^ does it answer your question?
[10:33] <jibel> thanks Kaleo
[10:36] <Kaleo> victor_bq, http://www.bq.com/es/aquaris-e4-5 "8Mpx - 13Mpx interpolados (Dual flash y autofocus)"  "5Mpx - 8Mpx interpolados"
[10:36] <Kaleo> victor_bq, maybe it's a little sparsely sourced, if you have more info about it, let me know
[10:39] <davmor2> Kaleo: so one question, 2448x4352 I assume is the 8MP mode if you take only the 1000's but is just of 10MP in reality is that a normal thing? Do the manufacturers just round down?
[10:39] <davmor2> s/of/over
[10:41] <Kaleo> davmor2, where do you get the 2448x4352 ?
[10:42] <victor_bq> Kaleo, the specs about interpolated MPx in E4.5 are only in Android FW as far as I know, as well as the specs in E5
[10:42] <davmor2> Kaleo: from the image data that I took in the different modes
[10:42] <Kaleo> davmor2, I'm going to guess you are using the default settings of the camera, that you did not touch the aspect ratio in the bottom edge panel?
[10:42] <victor_bq> If Ubuntu camera app has MPX interpolated implemented that's ok
[10:43] <Kaleo> davmor2, right, that's 16:9, the default
[10:43] <Kaleo> davmor2, which is unrelated to the announced resolution
[10:43] <davmor2> Kaleo: 2448x4352 and 3168x4224 were the too different sizes in EOG
[10:43] <Kaleo> davmor2, if you select 4:3 in the settings of the camera you'll get the "announced" 13.4MP
[10:43] <davmor2> two even
[10:43] <victor_bq> but the HW camera specs are 8MPx rear and 5 MPx front
[10:43] <victor_bq> for E4.5
[10:44] <Kaleo> victor_bq, right, since we are using part of the Android FW for the camera, I figured we could use the same interpolated resolutions
[10:44] <Kaleo> victor_bq, I'm not sure actually
[10:44] <Kaleo> victor_bq, would need to speak with the BQ engineer that did the interpolation bit
[10:44] <Kaleo> victor_bq, if you have his/her contact
[10:44] <victor_bq> I guess I can get it for you ;)
[10:44] <Kaleo> :=)
[10:45] <victor_bq> give me some minutes =)
[10:45] <Kaleo> davmor2, you see the aspect ratio setting right? you know which one I mean?
[10:47] <davmor2> Kaleo: yes, and 4:3 (13.4MP) which match the interop spec, and then 16:9 (10.4) which doesn't should be 8 and 13 according to the spec right?  But I assume we are giving the resolution that we are receiving from the file ie 10.4 and 13.x right
[10:47] <davmor2> 10.7 even
[10:49] <davmor2> Kaleo: our idea of resolution seems to match the image not the spec given, and on the front camera you have 16:9 (8.3MP) which again is probably correct by the image taken but is in the spec at 5 MP
[10:50] <victor_bq> davmor2, that's make more sense to me now :)
[10:51] <Kaleo> davmor2, no
[10:52] <Kaleo> davmor2, it's way simpler
[10:52] <davmor2> Kaleo: oh okay
[10:52] <Kaleo> davmor2, 4:3 is the native aspect ratio of the back camera sensor
[10:53] <Kaleo> davmor2, the obvious thing to do is to use that sensor at the maximum resolution allowed with an aspect  ratio of 4:3, which should be 8MPx
[10:53] <Kaleo> davmor2, now, because of the interpolation feature, it turns out this max resolution is 13MPx
[10:53] <Kaleo> davmor2, which is exactly what you get today when you set the camera setting to 4:3
[10:53] <davmor2> Kaleo: ah so the 16:9 which is the only mode available on the front camera is in interpolation mode then right
[10:54] <Kaleo> davmor2, and by 13MPx I mean 13.4MPx
[10:54] <Kaleo> davmor2, right
[10:54] <Kaleo> davmor2, now the front camera sensor is a bit peculiar
[10:54] <Kaleo> davmor2, it's native resolution has an aspect ratio of 16:9 IIRC
[10:55] <Kaleo> davmor2, and as you said we use the max resolution available with that aspect ratio, the interporlated resolution
[10:55] <Kaleo> davmor2, now the reason why we sometimes have a second different aspect ratio selected by default
[10:55] <Kaleo> davmor2, is that we want the camera to fill up the entire screen (which in case of BQ's is 16:9)
[10:56] <davmor2> Kaleo: that clears that up then thanks :)
[10:56] <Kaleo> :)à
[10:57] <victor_bq> thanks kaleo for the clarification :)
[10:59] <davmor2> Kaleo: on a plus side our reported MP's match the image sizes so as far as I am concerned we are all good, I just didn't understand the discrepancy between Size reported on site vs actual size :)
[11:00] <Kaleo> davmor2, ah right  :)
[11:01]  * mcphail thinks a camera should take photos in 6:4 ratio by default
[11:04] <davmor2> mcphail: wash you mouth out with soapy water ;)
[11:06] <mcphail> davmor2: I'm serious. Any other resolution for photos is a pain. It's the de facto standard
[11:07] <mcphail> Every print shop and every frame will have a 6" x 4" variant
[11:08] <mcphail> 16x9 is becoming more common, I'll admit, but isn't what your granny would buy
[11:09] <davmor2> mcphail: that's not a 6:4 ratio though, that's a 3:2 ratio :P
[11:09] <mcphail> :)
[11:12] <davmor2> mcphail: and technically 3:2 didn't match the old film ratio either which I'm sure was 4:3 to make it commercially viable for the film and camera industry of the time :)
[11:16] <mcphail> davmor2: no - fame size on 35mm film was 24x36mm I think
[11:16] <mcphail> *frame
[11:18] <mcphail> Same as full-frame digital cameras today
[11:19] <mcphail> cine 35mm was always 4:3, but still was 6:4 (or 3:2 if you must)
[11:38] <sil2100> dpm: ping :)
[11:39] <dpm> hey
[12:53] <davmor2> sneaks up on mzanetti in a different channel and BOO!
[12:53] <mzanetti> :)
[13:04] <sil2100> mariogrip: hey!
[13:15] <mariogrip> sil2100: Hi!
[13:42] <zirafinu> hi every one i am looking for a neat swype keyboard for touchscreens under linux
[13:43] <zirafinu> i heard that ubuntu-touch has one but i am not sure where to find its name
[13:43] <davmor2> zirafinu: ubuntu-keyboard but it isn't swype style yet that is to come
[13:44] <zirafinu> ahh ok sorry to bother you
[14:14] <mardy> davidcalle: hi! I've got a newbie question: how do I build the click for a scope from the command line?
[14:14] <mardy> davidcalle: if I run "make install", all files are installed on /
[14:21] <davidcalle> mardy: I really don't know, I've only used the sdk to work with clicks, pstolowski ? ^
[14:21] <pstolowski> mardy, davidcalle run 'click-buddy' from the top-level dir of the scope source
[14:22]  * mardy tries
[14:23] <davidcalle> Oooh, this is neat
[14:23]  * mardy hugs pstolowski
[14:25] <tsimonq2> davidcalle: I am lloking to start developing apps for the Ubuntu Phone...I see you use the SDK so I wanted to ping you.  If I build-dep on libgnome-desktop-3-dev, any way of figuring out what the binary depends on?
[14:28] <tsimonq2> davidcalle: what can I choose from?
[14:28] <davidcalle> tsimonq2: there is a great opportunity right now if you are into JS
[14:28] <tsimonq2> davidcalle: I'm fluent :)
[14:28] <davidcalle> tsimonq2: nice! https://developer.ubuntu.com/showdown/
[14:29] <tsimonq2> Oh! I heard about this!
[14:29] <seb128> jgdx, apt-cache show <binary>?
[14:29] <davidcalle> tsimonq2: (great opportunity in the sense "stuff to win" :) )
[14:29] <tsimonq2> davidcalle: what if I don't have an app idea? :P
[14:29] <tsimonq2> :D
[14:29] <seb128> jgdx, but if you want indirect depends easiest is to install it in a pbuilder or such
[14:30] <jgdx> seb128, rather, I want to know what I am supposed to put in the binary section of debian/control..
[14:30] <jgdx> seb128, installing my uss deb right now produses dependency errors
[14:30] <davidcalle> tsimonq2: there is a live Q&A about this contest on thursday, I'm pretty sure live commenters on IRC will come up with suggestions :)
[14:31] <seb128> jgdx, sorry but I'm not sure to follow
[14:31] <tsimonq2> davidcalle: well I am a teen so for me to participate it would have to be late UTC :)
[14:31] <seb128> jgdx, what sort of errors?
[14:31] <tsimonq2> davidcalle: when is it?
[14:32] <jgdx> seb128, that makes two of us. Let me try again: I've added libgnome-desktop-3-dev as a build dep in System Settings. Trying to install that .deb gives me these [1] errors. [1] http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/14671976/
[14:32] <davidcalle> tsimonq2: 17 UTC
[14:33] <davidcalle> tsimonq2: blog post incoming today with more details about it. But even if you miss it, it will be recorded.
[14:33] <seb128> jgdx, oh, use apt
[14:33] <tsimonq2> davidcalle: ahh okay, thanks :)
[14:33] <jgdx> seb128, and trying to install libgnome-desktop-3-10 gives another dep error, that I need to install gnome-desktop3-data. I can install both fine, but do both have to be in debian/control for the binary?
[14:33] <seb128> dpkg doesn't resolve depends
[14:33] <seb128> no
[14:33] <seb128> just list what you need
[14:33] <seb128> apt takes care of resolving the depends
[14:34] <tsimonq2> davidcalle: I might participate :D
[14:34] <jgdx> seb128, aah. Thanks, seb. The -dev package deps on all of that.
[14:35] <seb128> jgdx, yw!
[14:35] <tsimonq2> davidcalle: can I put my app on Github while I am working on it, or does it have to be private code? and when does it end?
[14:42] <davidcalle> tsimonq2: sure, that's up to you :) It ends february 29th
[14:42] <tsimonq2> davidcalle: ok, I was just making sure that it wasn't against the rules
[14:43] <edude03> Hello everyone - sorry if this question has been asked a million time, but is it possible to build ubuntu touch on the latest AOSP or does it have to be the 4.2.2 branch?
[14:46] <tsimonq2> davidcalle: can I work with a team?
[14:47] <tsimonq2> davidcalle: as in, is it against the rules?
[15:00] <davidcalle> tsimonq2: sure, it can be a team entry if you are fine with splitting prizes if you win :)
[19:32] <peto> hi, why i cant unlock my N7000? can you help me?
[20:24] <_Sponge> QUESTION: If I buy this Nexus7,2013 4G device and put Ubuntu Touch on it, can I use it as a Wifi Hotspot ? (Noob question)
[20:25] <_Sponge> Here's the device: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Google-Nexus-7-2013-32GB-WiFi-LTE-Black-Unlocked-Android-6-0-1-Marshmallow-/161957511931
[20:27] <_Sponge> popey, ping
[20:32] <_Sponge> still here, waiting.
[20:37] <pmcgowan> _Sponge, yes that should work although suport for that device may not be extended much longer
[20:37] <pmcgowan> official support that is
[20:47] <_Sponge> pmcgowan: Should I wait for the convergence phone for a real 4G wifi Hotspot phone then ? Just to be sure of the support side of things ?
[20:48] <pmcgowan> _Sponge, a newer device would be better as thats near end of life
[20:48] <pmcgowan> and that was always a reference not a true OEM product
[20:51] <_Sponge> pmcgowan: Your probably right as this website :
[20:51] <_Sponge> https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/start/ubuntu-for-devices/devices/
[20:51] <_Sponge> says nothing for "4G" device side of things for the Nexus 7 4G.
[20:52] <_Sponge> (2013)  that is.
[20:54] <_Sponge> pmcgowan:  I'm waiting for the "Mir Integration Launch" when I think 4K phone shall be coming along nicely, I think ...
[20:54] <_Sponge> I shall be a convergence phone,
[20:54] <_Sponge> multi-boot it with Android & Ubuntu ...
[20:55] <_Sponge> and add my Android apps appropriately.
[20:56]  * mcphail thinks life is too short for a dual-boot phone
[21:01] <_Sponge> Do you think the new Phone will run  Android aswell ?
[21:02] <mcphail> I'd hope not. Why would I want precious disk space used by android?
[21:03] <popey> _Sponge, pong
[21:04] <_Sponge> popey, It's pretty much sorted now - just wanna know if the 4G element of the Nexus 7 2013 was fully operational as a wifi hotspot ? yur thoughts ?
[21:04] <mhall119> mariogrip: ping
[21:05] <_Sponge> hi mhall119
[21:05] <mariogrip> mhall119: pong
[21:05] <mhall119> hi _Sponge
[21:05] <popey> _Sponge, don't think we ever enabled 4G on that
[21:05] <popey> hello mhall119
[21:05] <popey> good flight?
[21:05] <_Sponge> mhall119: Did Tuesday's Q&A #ubuntuonair go ahead as planned ?
[21:05] <mariogrip> How was ubucon popey mhall119?
[21:06] <mhall119> mariogrip: would you be available tomorrow for a catchup call with me, dpm and Alfonso at the the normal time?
[21:06] <popey> mariogrip, great! Got your mail, need to digest and reply. sorry I haven't yet
[21:06] <mhall119> popey: yup, how was your flight?
[21:06] <popey> super
[21:06] <mariogrip> mhall119: Yes, that's perfect :)
[21:06] <_Sponge> popey, Someone was saying that support could reach End Of Life soon for that model. Is this correct ?
[21:06] <popey> mariogrip, people liked playing with my One Plus One last week ;)
[21:06] <mhall119> mariogrip: great
[21:07] <popey> _Sponge, which model?
[21:07] <_Sponge> N72013
[21:07] <mariogrip> popey: :D
[21:07] <popey> _Sponge, news to me
[21:07] <_Sponge> ok, fair enough - someone said incorrectly, then.
[21:08] <_Sponge> popey, I can't find the Launchjpad bug to enable 4G on the N7-2013 4G model, couldn't lend a hand finding it could you ?
[21:08] <popey> Not sure there is even a bug for that
[21:08] <_Sponge> thats probably why then.
[21:09] <popey> Looks like it might work actually
[21:09] <popey> https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone/msg06945.html
[21:09] <popey> Don't know if anyone in the company has one of those, so chances are it's not well tested
[21:10] <_Sponge> ok, not sure if it'll get all the OTA updates either, but hey ho.
[21:11] <mhall119> I think we only targeted the wifi version of the N7
[21:11] <_Sponge> Hmmm...
[21:11] <_Sponge> I should raise a bug, I guess, on Launchpad.
[21:12] <mariogrip> mhall119: what's the status on "device alias" implementation?
[21:12] <_Sponge> popey, When, probably shall Mir arrive on an OTA update ?
[21:12] <popey> eh?
[21:13] <popey> Mir is already default on the phone.
[21:13] <_Sponge> Mir on the phone.
[21:13] <_Sponge> oh ok.
[21:13] <_Sponge> sorry :O
[21:15]  * _Sponge pokes popey about snapchat on convergence phone :-)
[21:17] <popey> You'd have to ask snapchat
[21:20] <mhall119> mariogrip: I haven't spoken to sergiusens or slangasek about it since mentioning it to them last week (on account of UbuCon/SCALE)
[21:21] <mariogrip> mhall119: ack
[21:22] <_Sponge> mhall119: Did you ask JonoB. about coming onto the Q&A at the UbuCon.us ?
[21:22] <mhall119> mariogrip: what's the branch you made for ubuntu-device-flash/
[21:23] <mhall119> _Sponge: I barely had a change to talk with him actually, I was hoping to chat about many things and just never had the chance
[21:23] <mariogrip> https://code.launchpad.net/~mariogrip/ubuntu-system-image/device-alias && https://code.launchpad.net/~mariogrip/goget-ubuntu-touch/device-alias
[21:26] <_Sponge> mhall119: Oh nuts.
[21:26]  * _Sponge tutts at mhall119
[21:26] <mhall119> mariogrip: thanks, I've added them both to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/goget-ubuntu-touch/+bug/1464754 and also market it as affecting goget-ubuntu-touch
[21:27] <mariogrip> mhall119: ack
[21:28] <mhall119> mariogrip: are you still working on those branches, or are they ready to be proposed for merging?
[21:31] <mariogrip> mhall119: they are ready
[21:34] <mcphail> Apparently we're due a new OTA very soon. I'll be sad to see OTA8.5 go. It has been the most stable smartphone experience I've had since the days of Symbian. Well done ladies/gents.
[21:35] <k1l_> you mean its the windows xp from ubuntu touch? :)
[21:35] <mcphail> ha!
[21:36] <mcphail> k1l_: you know if you say windows xp three times it reinstalls on your computer?
[21:36] <k1l_> hihi
[21:41] <mcphail> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35412892 - and Ubuntu phone sales last year were the biggest in history. Coincidence? I think not ;)
[21:43] <k1l_> hehe
[21:49] <_Sponge> popey, Which is the best Nexus-device that has '4G' support with Ubuntu touch ?
[21:50] <ahoneybun> _Sponge, Nexus 5?
[21:50] <_Sponge> right-oh
[21:52] <ahoneybun> only the Nexus 4 and Nexus 5 are supported atm
[21:55] <dobey> _Sponge: nexus 4 has 4g if you use the old radio from before it was disabled
[21:56] <ahoneybun> true
[21:58] <edude03> Does the nexus 5 support convergence with OTA 9?
[21:58] <matv1> _Sponge but you will get poor sound in calls in return if I remember correctly  :)
[21:58] <ahoneybun> I think the N5 has MHL support
[21:59] <edude03> It does
[21:59] <edude03> I guess that's the only way - no miracast or UDL support I guess
[22:05] <dobey> slimport i guess, not mhl
[22:06] <dobey> but nexus 5 is not an officially supported device
[22:06] <dobey> bluetooth doesn't work on it, so it's going to be hard using the slimport adapter with a bt kb/mouse to demo convergence on a nexus 5
[22:09] <edude03> rekt
[22:11] <edude03> hmm dobey what version of UT is bluetooth broken in? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bluetooth/TouchBluez5Testing leads me to believe it might work if I use a nightly
[22:12] <dobey> it's not "broken" exactly
[22:12] <dobey> bluetooth has never worked on the nexus 5
[22:15] <edude03> hm :/
[22:15] <edude03> Seems like Canonical and Partners don't want me to have a UT device
[22:16] <dobey> the nexus 5 has never been an officially supported device.
[22:16] <dobey> the nexus 4 is though
[22:17] <edude03> I know but the nexus 4 is.... 3 years old now?
[22:18] <edude03> I feel like I can't expect much from it / it wouldn't be a good device to demo convergence on
[22:18] <ahoneybun> it is a great device for it I think
[22:18] <edude03> If there was something more modern that I could flash I'd pick it up on my home tonigh
[22:19] <edude03> *tonight
[22:19] <dobey> you mean like all the existing demos that are running on it?
[22:19] <ahoneybun> well all the convergence pics and videos are of the nexus 4 so...
[22:20] <dobey> the nexus 5 is 2.25 years old too
[22:22] <edude03> dobey yeah I know but I can't buy the Meizu MX4 anywhere, the BQ 4.5/5 aren't very powerful either, The N7 is too big, the 1+1 doesn't have HDMI out
[22:22] <edude03> The pickings are extremely thin
[22:22] <dobey> edude03: the bq 4.5/5 and mx4 don't do mhl either
[22:22] <edude03> Right
[22:23] <edude03> I'd buy a MX4 just to play with if I could find it though
[22:24] <dobey> well i've been using a nexus 5 with ubuntu for about 2 years now
[22:24] <ahoneybun> god I need bluetooth in my life too much for that
[22:24] <dobey> official support would be nice, as would bleutooth, but eh, it works pretty well as a phone
[22:25] <edude03> bluetooth is a necessity for convergence apparently though
[22:25] <edude03> Is 16.04 still based on AOSP 4.2.2 by the way?
[22:26] <dobey> i think some people are expecting way more out of having a phone appear on a large screen as a traditional pc interface, than they are going to get
[22:27] <dobey> i guess it's 4.4, but yes, it's still 4.x
[22:27] <dobey> not 5.x yet
[22:27] <edude03> I'm possibly one of them
[22:30] <ahoneybun> the 1+1 port is getting rebased on 5.x I believe
[22:30] <ahoneybun> trying to fix the current issues that way
[22:31] <dobey> ahoneybun: there's general work to make stuff work on 5.x, because 5.x is needed for 64-bit and various other things
[22:32] <ahoneybun> oh
[22:32] <dobey> and i guess the cost of 64-bit chips has come down enough that there's a larger market shift to it happening
[22:42] <edude03> hmm
[22:43] <edude03> I wish the CM porting guide was out
[22:43] <edude03> I'd take a stab at it if I knew where to start
[22:43] <dobey> what CM porting guide?
[22:45] <edude03> Word around the web is that one is coming one day
[22:46] <mcphail> dobey: there is one promised on the AOSP porting guide. Has never appeared, though
[22:47] <dobey> oh, well CM is based on AOSP, so i guess it should be pretty obvious what to do there
[22:47] <dobey> i don't see what good a secondary guide that says to do the exact same stuff, would be
[22:48] <edude03> same deal
[22:49] <edude03> If I had a device that could run a new version of CM or AOSP (like the nexus 6) there isn't a guide that describes how to go from that to UT
[22:52] <dobey> uh, the porting guide describes exactly that
[23:24] <matv1> popey did you say you have a oneplus one running a ut port?
[23:25] <popey> i do
[23:25] <matv1> cool
[23:25] <matv1> who maintains it?
[23:28] <matv1> popey I remember news of it being ported early in 2015. I didnt realize it is still being maintained. Is it up to date?
[23:31] <popey> mariogrip maintains it
[23:34] <mariogrip> matv1: jup, I'm working on getting the android base to 5.1
[23:34] <matv1> mariogrip thats pretty neat.
[23:34] <matv1> where do you have the image hosted?
[23:35] <mariogrip> http://system-image.ubuntu.com/
[23:35] <mariogrip> http://system-image.ubports.com/
[23:35] <dobey> really?
[23:35] <dobey> oh ok
[23:35] <mariogrip> The last one
[23:36] <dobey> yeah, i was going to say :)
[23:36] <mariogrip> Copy pate error :P
[23:36] <mariogrip> Paste*
[23:37] <matv1> mariogrip found it, thanks
[23:39] <matv1> I noticed fairphone 2 has same cpu gpu


[00:00] <`mousey> Does anyone know where I can obtain the Windows standalone installer for bzr 1.10?
[00:00] <Peng_> `mousey: The build machine has been having issues; there isn't one yet.
[00:00] <`mousey> ahh rightio
[00:01] <`mousey> can I just grab the zip and overwrite my existing bzr folder with it to get 1.10?
[00:01] <`mousey> *install folder
[00:13] <jelmer> wb enigma
[00:13] <jelmer> enigma, there are only a few bzr svn-* commands
[00:14] <jelmer> bzr svn-import / bzr svn-upgrade (not relevant right now) / bzr svn-branching-scheme (only for bzr-svn == 0.4) / bzr svn-set-revprops / bzr svn-layout
[00:15] <enigma> jelmer: Thanks.
[00:16] <enigma> jelmer: Suppose I branch http://remoterepo/trunk/foobar and then I tag rev 33. How do I get that tag back into SVN? (This is with 0.5)
[00:17] <enigma> I should clarify: http://remoterepo/svn/trunk/foobar
[00:20] <jelmer> enigma, there is no way to do that at the moment, in the future it will be possible to set a configuration variable with the path in which tags should be created
[00:20] <jelmer> you can hardcode that path for now, at layout/standard.py:230
[00:20] <enigma> What happens to tags right now?
[00:21] <enigma> Is the "custom" layout stuff relevant for 0.5 still?
[00:21] <jelmer> enigma, yes, the custom layout stuff is still relevant for 0.5
[00:21] <jelmer> enigma, You'll see what happens if you try the latest revision from the 0.5 branch :-)
[00:21] <enigma> Are there doc on the layout stuff (beyond the help page for layouts)?
[00:22] <enigma> jelmer: OK. Let me try...pulling...
[00:23] <jelmer> enigma, no, the svn-layout helppage is all there is
[00:23] <enigma> OK. Thanks.
[00:25] <jelmer> enigma: sorry, that should be layout/standard.py:310
[00:25] <enigma> OK.
[00:26] <enigma> So, if I check out a branch directly, I end up with a "wild card" layout?
[00:27] <enigma> So, I should check out at the "trunk" level?
[00:27] <jelmer> enigma: Ah, sorry
[00:27] <jelmer> enigma, You will end up with a WildcardLayout() if you have "branches = " configured in the bazaar configuration file
[00:27] <jelmer> enigma, you will end up with TrunkLayout() if you branch "/trunk" or "/branches/X"
[00:28] <jelmer> you will end up with CustomLayout() if you branch /trunk/foo/bar
[00:28] <jelmer> you will end up with RootLayout() if you branch "/"
[00:28] <enigma> So branching "/trunk/foo" will give me CustomLayout?
[00:28] <jelmer> only TrunkLayout() supports tags at the moment (as the path to the tags isn't known in all the other cases)
[00:28] <jelmer> enigma, correct
[00:29] <enigma> Oh, OK. I see. It's making a lot more sense now.
[00:37] <enigma> Am I the only one who gets a little mislead by the "No new revisions to push" message when pushing tags?
[00:37] <enigma> It seems like bzr should say "Push new metadata, but no new revisions"
[00:37] <enigma> Or something like that.
[00:37] <spiv> enigma: I think there's already a bug report about that
[00:37] <spiv> (not 100% sure)
[00:38] <spiv> It certainly is confusing.
[00:52] <enigma> By mandate of "central IT", we are required to stuff all our code in one subversion repository. Since we have several different project all in one repo, it seems as if the appropriate structure in svn should be: /project/(trunk|tags|branches). Does that sound right?
[00:52] <enigma> Currently we have /trunk/project, so that isn't going to play nice with bzr-svn if we want branching and tagging, right?
[00:53] <jelmer> enigma, branching is going to work ok (since you specify the branch URL each time), tagging isn't (since it has to find the tags URL on its own in that case)
[00:54] <jelmer> you can set the "tags" and "branches" configuration variables in the config to force it to find your branches and tags
[00:54] <jelmer> except that won't allow you to create new tags (yet), since I haven't hooked that up yet
[00:54] <enigma> OK.
[00:56] <enigma> jelmer: If I felt so inclined to add more detail to documentation, what would be a good way to give that back?
[00:57] <jelmer> enigma, yeah, definitely
[00:57] <enigma> How do I send the changes back?
[00:58] <jelmer> just "bzr send" should sent back your local commits to me :-)
[00:58] <enigma> OK. :-)
[01:16] <jelmer> Peng, interesting bug you hit there :-) Seems to be caused by svk replacing a directory by a copy of itself (without changes)
[01:47] <enigma> jelmer: Suppose I have "trunk/foobar" in svn and I want to make a branch "branches/foobar-2.0", should I just use "svn copy" to make the branch?
[01:47] <enigma> Or is there a way to make that branch with bzr-svn?
[01:47] <jelmer> enigma, you can just "bzr svn-push" to the new location
[01:47] <jelmer> enigma, but "svn cp" will also work
[01:48] <enigma> OK. Let me try the svn-push.
[01:48] <jelmer> Peng_, still there?
[01:50] <jelmer> lifeless, ping
[01:50] <enigma> jelmer: Wow! bzr-push worked beautifully!
[01:50] <RyanPrior> Can anybody point me to a document explaining bzr's advantages as compared to git, mercurial, perforce, and similar software?
[01:50] <jelmer> :-)
[01:51] <enigma> RyanPrior: This chat room is one of the advantages! ;-)
[01:51] <jelmer> RyanPrior, there are various BzrVsX pages on the wiki
[01:51] <jelmer> RyanPrior, http://bazaar-vcs.org/BzrVsGit / http://bazaar-vcs.org/BzrVsHg / ...
[01:51] <enigma> RyanPrior: Try to get a hold of the authors of Perforce on irc. ;-)
[02:11] <RyanPrior> Thanks for those links, they are informative.
[02:26] <AfC> Hm. Maybe someone in Canonical's marketing department should give http://bazaar-vcs.org/Benchmarks some love, seeing as how the most recent thing cited there is bzr version 1.1dev
[02:29]  * mwhudson needs his "bzr oh-crap-ive-been-editing-in-trunk" plugin again
[02:30] <mwhudson> extra bonus points if it can somehow convince emacs to reload all its buffers from the branch it should create...
[02:33] <thumper> mw:)
[02:33] <thumper> mwhudson: :)
[02:51] <Peng_> jelmer: pingpong
[02:54] <Peng_> jelmer: (that was really just a pong, not a ping)
[02:58] <jelmer> Peng_, Any chance you can unsubscribe from lp:~bzr-svn/bzr-svn/trunk ?
[02:58] <jelmer> lp won't let me remove it otherwise
[03:00] <spiv> jelmer: rename it from "trunk" to "please-unsubscribe-kthxbye"? ;)
[03:00] <jelmer> spiv, well, peng is the only subscriber, this seemed easier :-)
[03:13] <Peng_> Heh.
[03:14] <Peng_> jelmer: lp:~jelmer/bzr-svn/trunk? Done.
[03:14] <Peng_> You're deleting it? Poor branch.
[03:15] <jelmer> Peng_, thanks
[03:15] <jelmer> yeah, people seem to end up using it while it is not actively developed
[03:15] <jelmer> I'll just readd it when I work on it again
[03:16] <Peng_> Ah.
[03:17] <Peng_> It had a bunch of associated bugs, and a merge proposal.
[03:27] <igc> hi all
[03:29] <Peng_> Good morning.
[03:31] <lifeless> jelmer: having something called trunk not be the active branch is ... weird.
[03:32] <jelmer> lifeless, perhaps; that's why it's gone now
[05:48] <spiv> poolie: I just sent you some insert_record_stream RPC perf numbers.  Fairly basic at this stage, but it should be easier to get more numbers as the code gets less quirky.
[05:53] <poolie> thanks
[06:20] <poolie> spiv, can you please measure something for an incremental push too?
[06:22] <spiv> poolie: sure, just a moment.
[06:25] <spiv> poolie: pushing bzr.dev onto bzr.dev -r-100: 74 hpss calls (bzr.dev), 39 (streaming-push)
[06:27] <spiv> poolie: (and 20.9s/6.5s wall/user time vs. 24.4s/5.2s)
[06:32] <spiv> poolie: pushing one rev onto bzr.dev: 47 hpss calls vs. 24.
[06:33] <spiv> (And there's 3 easy to remove calls in that 24, I think)
[06:37] <poolie> so the wall time got worse?
[06:43] <spiv> poolie: yes, although the need for topological sorting is a likely culprit there.  There's possibly also some extra time due to the server doing more thinking now.
[06:44] <lifeless> shouldn't need topo sorting
[06:44] <spiv> poolie: oh, and tee'ing the stream in case a fallback is needed hurts a fair bit too.
[06:44] <lifeless> bah, I'm on leave.  Honest.  But dig up the mail I wrote about this some months back; topo sort is /one/ parameter in the api
[06:44] <spiv> lifeless: it's not needed in principle, it is with the current implementation :)
[06:45] <spiv> lifeless: which calls down to insert_record_stream([one_record]) many times on the server.
[06:45] <spiv> lifeless: that's certainly fixable, but getting things working comes before making them fast :)
[06:50] <spiv> lifeless: also, enjoy your leave!
[06:54] <poolie> is it just me or does the bzr-gtk test suite require the user to click the right buttons to make things pass?
[06:54] <poolie> spiv, anyhow, thankyou, that's helpful
[06:55] <spiv> poolie: great.
[07:07] <vila> hi all
[07:08] <vila> poolie: what bzr-gtk version are you using ? A bug was fixed long ago about that
[07:08] <vila> poolie: could be a new one though..
[07:10] <poolie> hello vila
[07:10] <poolie> it might be quite old...
[07:11] <vila> poolie: Just checked: I'm up to date and 'bzr selftest -s bp.gtk' runs flawlessly
[07:12] <spiv> I see that our test suite seems to import plugins even with --no-plugins atm.
[07:16]  * spiv sends off a quick patch about that.
[07:16] <spiv> Ok, that's me done for the day.
[07:23] <poolie> night spivvo
[08:19] <rkistner> is it at all possible to do something like single-file branching in bzr?
[08:20] <bob2> not really
[08:20] <bob2> you could branch and delete all but one file
[08:20] <rkistner> i'm developing a CMS website and want to use bzr for version control of the content
[08:21] <rkistner> so now if a user wants to edit content, i want to branch that content
[08:21] <rkistner> and merge it back in when the user is done editing
[08:21] <rkistner> but if i have a lot of users and content, it will get impractical to branch all the content for every user
[08:23] <rkistner> so actually, i just want to do a lightweight checkout of a single file
[08:23] <rkistner> might it be possible with "manual" api calls?
[08:24] <poolie> rkistner: yes, have a look at a MemoryTree or PreviewTree
[08:26] <rkistner> poolie: thanks, will have a look
[08:45] <rkistner> are there any documentation on MemoryTree and PreviewTree, apart from the API?
[09:34] <poolie> rkistner: maybe in doc/developer?
[09:36] <rkistner> actually, i couldn't even find the api documentation for previewtree so far
[09:39] <poolie> http://starship.python.net/crew/mwh/bzrlibapi/
[09:40] <poolie> http://starship.python.net/crew/mwh/bzrlibapi/bzrlib.memorytree.MemoryTree.html
[09:40] <poolie> is probably what you want
[09:40] <rkistner> ok
[09:41] <poolie> but what you're going to do will be a bit atypical
[09:41] <poolie> so it might be better to write about wherever you get up to to the mailing list
[09:42] <rkistner> ok
[13:34] <rocky> jelmer: i really think you should undeprecate "svn+http(s)" ;)
[13:34] <jelmer> rocky, why/
[13:34] <jelmer> ?
[13:36] <BUGabundo_work> hi
[13:36] <BUGabundo_work> what does "No handlers could be found for logger "bzr" " mean?
[13:38] <\sh> guys, what is the right way of updating bzr imported svn branches from svn repo?
[13:38] <\sh> forget the question.../me needs to clean glasses
[13:39] <Peng_> BUGabundo_work: Are you using bzrlib or running "bzr"?
[13:40] <BUGabundo_work> bzr Peng_
[13:40] <BUGabundo_work> brz commit .
[13:40] <BUGabundo_work> local repo of files
[13:40] <BUGabundo_work> stand alone
[13:40] <jelmer> \sh, :-)
[13:40] <Peng_> BUGabundo_work: 1.) It's not really a big deal; it's just a warning, 2.) It means the debug log isn't working for some reason.
[13:41] <\sh> jelmer: svn-upgrade is too obvious ;)
[13:41] <Peng_> BUGabundo_work: Run "bzr version" to see where it's located. Maybe you don't have write permissions?
[13:41] <BUGabundo_work> but really nasty when used with autocomplete TAB TAB
[13:41] <jelmer> \sh: not sure I follow, svn-upgrade should only be necessary if you used to use bzr-svn 0.3.x which is over a year old by now
[13:42] <BUGabundo_work> I see a few exceptions there
[13:42] <\sh> jelmer: then I'm lost ;) /me wants to do something like "svn update" on bzr imported svn branches :)
[13:42] <jelmer> \sh, Just do whatever you would do on a regular bzr branch :-)
[13:42] <jelmer> \sh, just "bzr pull <svn-location>" should work
[13:43] <jelmer> or "bzr update" if it's a checkout
[13:43] <\sh> jelmer: bzr pull? oh xmas is near :)
[13:43] <BUGabundo_work> Peng_ can you take a look please
[13:43] <BUGabundo_work> http://paste.ubuntu.com/86261
[13:45] <Peng_> BUGabundo_work: Haha. That issue was fixed in 1.10.
[13:45] <BUGabundo_work> I'm on jaunty
[13:45] <BUGabundo_work> I have 1.9-1
[13:45] <BUGabundo_work> should I test a PPA?
[13:45] <Peng_> You could.
[13:45] <BUGabundo_work> is there a bug I can track=?
[13:46] <Peng_> BUGabundo_work: For what?
[13:46] <BUGabundo_work> for this version error?
[13:46] <Peng_> BUGabundo_work: No, a bug was never filed about it.
[13:46] <BUGabundo_work> I'll file it when I come back
[13:46] <Peng_> Jaunty runs an alpha version of Python?
[13:46] <BUGabundo_work> I have no idea!
[13:46] <Peng_> BUGabundo_work: Like I said, the "bzr version" bug was fixed in 1.10.
[13:47] <BUGabundo_work> http://paste.ubuntu.com/86263/
[13:47] <BUGabundo_work> and http://paste.ubuntu.com/86264/
[13:47] <BUGabundo_work> brb
[13:49] <Peng_> BUGabundo_work: You can use the PPA to upgrade to bzr 1.10 if you want to, but it's not necessary. https://launchpad.net/~bzr/+archive
[13:49] <Peng_> BUGabundo_work: I only wanted you to run "bzr version" to find out the location of .bzr.log, but it's probably ~/.bzr.log.
[13:50] <Peng_> Wait, Jaunty? It doesn't look like there is a PPA build for Jaunty in the first place.
[13:50] <Peng_> Eh.
[14:10] <\sh> jelmer: any clue how to resolve this? or what would be a trigger for this? bzr: ERROR: Must end write group before releasing write lock on KnitPackRepository('file:///home/shermann/workspace/zend-framework/standard/.bzr/repository/')
[14:10] <jelmer> \sh, that's actually masking any real errors
[14:11] <jelmer> can you pastebin the full backtrace?
[14:11] <\sh> jelmer: there is no one
[14:11] <jelmer> \sh, when does this happen?
[14:12] <knighthawk> can anyone point me to docs on how to use nautilus-bzr?
[14:12] <knighthawk> I have it installed but don't see how to use it.
[14:12] <\sh> jelmer: after svn-import --all --incremental <zend-framework svn repo>
[14:12] <jelmer> knighthawk, it should just start showing small icons for your bzr managed files in nautilus
[14:12] <\sh> jelmer: he was in the stage of creating the revisions (I could do that again ;))
[14:12] <BUGabundo_work1> Peng_: back
[14:13] <jelmer> \sh, are you running 0.4.16?
[14:13] <\sh> jelmer: 0.4.13 from intrepid
[14:14] <knighthawk> jelmer yeah that's what I figured but it doesn't seem to be doing that.
[14:14] <jelmer> knighthawk, do you have python-nautilus installed?
[14:14] <rocky> jelmer: you have any idea about http://cluebin.appspot.com/pasted/4002 and http://cluebin.appspot.com/pasted/3611 ? that's with bzr 1.10 and bzr-svn-0.5 branch as of a few days ago (and just updated and confirmed it's still happening)
[14:15] <jelmer> \sh, It may be fixed in a newer version, or at least give a better error.
[14:16] <jelmer> rocky, the first is a bzr-svn bug that's been fixed in the 0.5 branch
[14:16] <\sh> jelmer: trying 0.4.16
[14:16] <knighthawk> jelmer, rpm -q python-nautilus
[14:16] <knighthawk> package python-nautilus is not installed
[14:16] <knighthawk> I'll see about that.
[14:16] <knighthawk> jelmer, doesn't seem to be a package name.
[14:17] <jelmer> knighthawk, I don't know what it's named on RPM-based systems, and whether it's packaged at all there, sorry.
[14:18] <knighthawk> jelmer, well that gives me a place to start thanks.
[14:21] <Peng_> Oops, now I was awya.
[14:21] <Peng_> away*
[14:21] <rocky> jelmer: both those msgs come from the same error, and i am running the latest code and get the same error (even if those pastes are a couple days old)
[14:21] <jelmer> rocky, you're running r2270 ?
[14:22] <rocky> jelmer: yep
[14:23] <rocky> jelmer: a more recent paste (definitely from r2270) is cluebin.appspot.com/pasted/4006
[14:23] <rocky> jelmer: and you can try it as well as the svn repo is publically available i believe
[14:25]  * jelmer gives it a try
[14:26] <rocky> jelmer: if that url doesn't work for you, just try the non-https version, i definitely know it's available to anonymous users
[14:26] <jelmer> it works without svn+ even :-)
[14:26] <rocky> jelmer: it never works properly for me without svn+ because pycurl barfs
[14:26] <rocky> jelmer: but regardless... did the branch/checkout work for you?
[14:27] <jelmer> still running
[14:27] <rocky> kk
[14:27] <rocky> for me it gets really far before it bails
[14:27] <Peng_> jelmer: If you changed bzr-svn's version_info from (0, 5, 0, 'rc', 1) to (0, 5, 0, 'candidate', 1), bzrlib._format_version_tuple() wouldn't barf on it anymore.
[14:27] <Peng_> Hmm.
[14:28] <BUGabundo_work1> Peng_: bug #308578
[14:28] <BUGabundo_work1> I filled it
[14:29] <Peng_> BUGabundo_work1: Yeah, it was definitely fixed in 1.10.
[14:30] <BUGabundo_work1> humm can you mark it in progress? or fix available?
[14:30] <BUGabundo_work1> where can I get the patch?
[14:30] <BUGabundo_work1> bzr repo?
[14:31] <Peng_> BUGabundo_work1: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~bzr/bzr/trunk/revision/3849
[14:33] <BUGabundo_work1> so bzr branch lp:bzr should do it for me?
[14:33] <Peng_> BUGabundo_work1: Well, yes.
[14:33]  * BUGabundo_work1 admits to be very new to this
[14:34] <Peng_> BUGabundo_work1: You could also get 1.10 off the website. Or you could just patch your 1.9 installation.
[14:34]  * BUGabundo_work1 wants to learn
[14:36] <BUGabundo> Peng_: $ cd /tmp/;bzr branch lp:bzr;
[14:36] <BUGabundo> Disconnecting: Corrupted MAC on input. bzr: ERROR: Connection closed: please check connectivity and permissions (and try -Dhpss if further diagnosis is required)
[14:36] <rocky> jelmer: i have to take off for some errands but feel rest assured that i will ping you on the issue a little later :)
[14:38] <BUGabundo> Peng_: https://launchpad.net/~bzr/+archive already has 1.10, but no version for Jaunty... kinda strange..
[14:38] <Peng_> BUGabundo: Now _that_ I don't know. Is it really worth all this effort for the "bzr version" bug?   LOL
[14:39] <BUGabundo_work1> but I can wait.
[14:39] <Peng_> BUGabundo_work1: The logging thing isn't related to hte "bzr version" thing.
[14:40] <BUGabundo> I'll test deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/bzr-beta-ppa/ubuntu jaunty main  and see if both are fixed
[14:42] <Peng_> Hmm, why *does* "bzr version" traceback when plugins have a bad version_info anyway? The plugin code works around that (e.g., "bzr plugins" works).
[14:44] <BUGabundo_work1> no idea!
[14:44] <BUGabundo_work1> I'm just a simple user
[14:44] <BUGabundo_work1> who gets anoyed every day, when doing regular commits
[14:45] <Peng_> BUGabundo_work1: Does ~/.bzr.log exist?
[14:45]  * BUGabundo_work1 checking
[14:45] <BUGabundo_work1> yes
[14:45] <BUGabundo_work1> and is owned by root
[14:46] <BUGabundo_work1> can it be the origen of the prob?
[14:46] <Peng_> BUGabundo_work1: Probably.
[14:46] <BUGabundo_work1> maybe I did a commit with the wrong user?
[14:46] <Peng_> BUGabundo_work1: Try renaming/deleting/chowning it.
[14:46] <BUGabundo_work1> I have several repos
[14:46] <BUGabundo_work1> one for /etc
[14:46] <BUGabundo_work1> that is done with sudo
[14:47] <BUGabundo> sudo chown bugabundo:bugabundo .bzr -R
[14:47] <BUGabundo> ahhhhhhhhhh
[14:47] <BUGabundo> that works...
[14:47] <Peng_> Ohnoes, clones.
[14:47] <BUGabundo> no more warning
[14:47] <BUGabundo> eheh
[14:47] <BUGabundo> laptop with ubuntu
[14:48] <BUGabundo_work1> Office PC here
[14:48] <BUGabundo> but I still get the brz version trace
[14:48] <BUGabundo> upgrading bzr now
[14:49] <BUGabundo> it now works fine too
[14:49] <Peng_> :D
[14:49] <BUGabundo> Bazaar (bzr) 1.10rc1
[14:49] <Peng_> If you install bzr from source, you should compile the C extensions.
[14:49] <BUGabundo_work1> humm?
[14:50] <BUGabundo_work1> too complicated for me LOL
[14:50] <BUGabundo_work1> brb
[14:50] <BUGabundo_work1> thanks Peng_
[14:50] <Peng_> BUGabundo: 1.10 final is out too.
[14:50] <BUGabundo_work1> its what the PPA sent me
[14:53] <Peng_> Ah.
[15:47] <Stavros> hello
[15:47] <Stavros> i am trying to checkout a repo that has a symlink, but i'm on windows so it fails
[15:47] <Stavros> what can i do, apart from get a normal OS?
[15:51] <Stavros> symlinks? anyone?
[15:53] <Peng_> Stavros: There's a symlink plugin.
[15:56] <Stavros> Peng: ah, thanks
[16:25] <pthulin> if I've made a commit to a local branch that I havn't yet pushed anywhere, is there some way to change the commit message after hand? Thanks =)
[16:26] <LeoNerd> Only by uncommit/recommit
[16:27] <pthulin> aha, thanks LeoNerd
[16:29] <rocky> jelmer: any progress on the issue i mentioned earlier? :)  did you at least reproduce it ?
[16:30] <nDuff> I know there's been discussion in the past of support for plugins adding content-aware merge algorithms; has anyone implemented such a thing as of yet?
[16:31] <jelmer> rocky, Yes, I can confirm it's still there
[16:31] <jelmer> haven't found out what's causing it yet; hopefully later tonight
[16:31] <jelmer> nDuff, Not that I've seen
[16:32] <jelmer> nDuff, I think Odd_Bloke was working on it
[16:32] <Odd_Bloke> Nominally, yes.
[16:32] <Odd_Bloke> In reality, I haven't started.
[16:32] <Odd_Bloke> But I think you can already plug your own merge algorithms in.
[16:33] <Odd_Bloke> And so you could do some content-checking in there.
[16:33] <Odd_Bloke> But I don't really know any more than that.
[16:41] <garyvdm> If I've got a bound branch, (a checkout), is there a way to get it to use the parent/push locations?
[16:41] <garyvdm> parent/push locations of the branch it is bound to?
[16:49] <\sh> jelmer: I'm trying latest bzr + latest bzr-svn...same error no traceback...but when restarting the same import, he has less revisions to copy...
[16:49] <jelmer> \sh, that's correct, some revisions have already been copied in that case
[16:49] <jelmer> Odd_Bloke, ah, thanks
[16:49] <jelmer> \sh, can you comment out that exception and see what exception it is masking?
[16:49] <enigma1> I'm cloning an SVN repo...it gets to about version 4000 of 8500 and then I get the following error: bzr: ERROR: parent_id {3842@daff2dd8-1c3d-0410-9cd2-f6297dd8f964::trunk%2Fjetty-master%2Fsrc%2Fhtml} not in inventory
[16:49] <enigma1> (This is with bzr-svn 0.5)
[16:50] <enigma1> (trunk)
[16:50] <\sh> jelmer: how do I do this?
[16:52] <jelmer> \sh, bzrlib/repository.py:1142
[16:52] <jelmer> just replace the raise with a "pass"
[16:54] <\sh> jelmer: which method? in my source there is line 1142 in repository.py a "return result"
[16:55] <jelmer> \sh, unlock
[16:55] <jelmer> enigma42, hi
[16:56] <\sh> jelmer: thx...now it takes some more time
[16:58] <jelmer> AmanicA, hi
[16:58] <AmanicA> hi
[16:58] <jelmer> AmanicA, I always forget - do you have PQM access?
[16:58] <AmanicA> no
[17:00] <jelmer> AmanicA, Ok; I've submitted your tags-range patch
[17:01] <AmanicA> thanks!
[17:01] <AmanicA> *goes for dinner
[17:13] <enigma42> jelmer: Hi
[17:14] <enigma42> jelmer: I had just stepped out for a bit to take all the garbage cans out to the curb. ;-)
[17:17] <jelmer> enigma42, hi
[17:18] <jelmer> enigma42, are you on r2270?
[17:20] <enigma42> jelmer: Let me check
[17:21] <enigma42> jelmer: No....I'm on 2266
[17:21] <enigma42> Let me update.
[17:23] <enigma42> OK...I'm trying again. Should I clear the svn cache?
[17:24] <jelmer> no, that shouldn't be necessary
[17:24] <enigma42> OK
[17:26] <LarstiQ> jelmer: bzr-svn 0.5 deals well with a previously branch-scheme breaking mv, thanks!
[17:27] <LarstiQ> jelmer: unfortunately copies still seem to stop it dead in its tracks.
[17:27] <jelmer> LarstiQ, not sure I follow?
[17:27] <jelmer> LarstiQ, Copies of files you mean?
[17:27] <LarstiQ> jelmer: no, svn cp trunk branch
[17:28] <LarstiQ> now branch and trunk don't share history
[17:28] <LarstiQ> afaiui
[17:28] <jelmer> LarstiQ, they should, if you did a "bzr branch" of "branch"
[17:28] <jelmer> LarstiQ, or did you already push to both using older versions of bzr-svn?
[17:30] <jelmer> LarstiQ, oh, and "branch" would have one extra (pointless) commit after a "svn cp"
[17:30] <LarstiQ> jelmer: no bzr has been used on that branch afaik
[17:30] <LarstiQ> but maybe it wasn't an svn cp, but manually, hmm
[17:32] <LarstiQ> jelmer: would the svn log -v -r svnrev; where svnrev is the svn revno of the branch bzr first revision be helpful?
[17:32] <jelmer> LarstiQ, yes
[17:32] <LarstiQ> it's a bunch of adds :/
[17:32] <jelmer> not a copy?
[17:32] <LarstiQ> it mentions (from: /..)
[17:33] <jelmer> that's a copy
[17:33] <LarstiQ> ok
[17:42] <LarstiQ> jelmer: the README refers to BzrForeignBranches/Subversion/mapping , http://bazaar-vcs.org/BzrForeignBranches/Subversion/mapping doesn't seem to exist though?
[17:43] <enigma42> jelmer: Wow! bzr-svn 0.5 is *much* faster for pulling lots of revisions!
[17:44] <jelmer> enigma42, cool, that's good to hear :-)
[17:44] <enigma42> I'm able to pull down a 1000 revisions from a remote repo in about 1 minute.
[17:45] <jelmer> LarstiQ, ah, yeah, it's part of the bzr branch these days
[17:45] <enigma42> So this is the strange thing, if I just do a "pull", then it takes a really long time during "phase 0 of 2"
[17:45] <enigma42> But if I do "pull -v -r 2000" it goes much faster.
[17:45] <jelmer> enigma42, that's the "copying revisions" step or "fetching revision info" ?
[17:46] <enigma42> The "Pull phase 0/2"
[17:47] <enigma42> There's approx 8500 revisions in the svn repo.
[17:48] <enigma42> So what I'm doing right now is pulling down the revisions 1000 at a time.
[17:50] <enigma42> OK...I'm just around revision 4000 again and it's being slow.
[17:50] <enigma42> Let me investigate a bit.
[17:54] <LarstiQ> evening jam
[17:57] <enigma42> What is "Pull phase 0" anyway?
[17:57] <enigma42> Versus "1" and "2"?
[17:58] <jam> hi LarstiQ
[18:10] <jelmer> enigma42, is it working any better this time?
[18:12] <enigma42> Well...it's still slow, but I think I've narrowed it down to the problem revisions.
[18:13] <enigma42> I think it's getting stuck on an SVN branch we made a while back.
[18:21] <\sh> jelmer: I don't get any backtrace :(
[18:21] <jelmer> \sh, so it just works ? Or does something else fail?
[18:21] <\sh> no it failes after some time again..but no backtrace
[18:22] <jelmer> how does it fail?
[18:22] <\sh> same error message: bzr: ERROR: Must end write group before releasing write lock on KnitPackRepository('file:///home/shermann/workspace/zend-framework/standard/.bzr/repository/')
[18:24] <jelmer> \sh, ah, looks like there's another place where that exception is raised..
[18:24] <jelmer> bzrlib/repofmt/pack_repo.py
[18:24] <jelmer> any chance you can comment it out there as well and try again?
[18:24] <jelmer> sorry :-/
[18:24] <\sh> jepp
[18:28] <\sh> jelmer: I've to catch my train now...I'll leave it running, so I can see tomorrow morning what happened
[18:29] <\sh> ah ... now bzr: ERROR: Lock not held: LockableFiles(lock, file:///home/shermann/workspace/zend-framework/standard/.bzr/repository/)                  but no backtrace ;)
[18:29] <\sh> anyways..I'm on the run :) cu tomorrow
[18:30] <jelmer> k
[18:30] <jelmer> bye!
[18:33] <enigma42> jelmer: I think I found the svn rev the pull is getting stuck on.
[18:33] <enigma42> jelmer: What sort of information should I dump out to see what's going on?
[18:33] <enigma42> Is just sits and sit here: | [                                                            ] Pull phase 0/2
[18:33] <jelmer> svn log -v for the particular revision would probably be useful
[18:34] <jelmer> but it's actually doing something ?
[18:34] <enigma42> top shows that it's using CPU
[18:34] <enigma42> But the progress bar is not ever moving.
[18:34] <enigma42> And it just sits there for minutes and minutes.
[18:35] <jelmer> if you run it with -Dtransport it will write the svn operations to ~/.bzr.log
[18:35] <enigma42> Oh, OK. Let me try that.
[18:35] <jelmer> you can also interrupt it with SIGQUIT (Ctrl-\), that will put you into a Python debugger
[18:35] <jelmer> you should then be able to see what's going on
[18:36] <enigma42> Ah...I see this log message: creating branch for POC of svn branching
[18:36] <enigma42>    A /branches/RELEASE_0_6_0 (from /trunk:4114)
[18:39] <bialix> hello
[18:39] <bialix> is there possible to create bzrdir without branch and checkout?
[18:40] <bialix> I'd like to have it in such state to prevent adding directory to toplevel branch and in the same to prevent creating checkout in this directory
[18:40] <enigma42> jelmer: It all gets very slow after the following:
[18:40] <enigma42> 25.838  svn update -r4115
[18:40] <enigma42> 26.259  'branches/RELEASE_0_6_0' copied from 'trunk':svn-v3-none:daff2dd8-1c3d-0410-9cd2-f6297dd8f964::4114
[18:41] <enigma42> jelmer: Maybe some kind of deep recursion following the copy?
[18:41] <knighthawk> still learning how to do remote checkouts bzr branch bzr+ssh://serverName/file/path works
[18:41] <enigma42> jelmer: I pulled the top of the repo, so I should have a "root" layout.
[18:42] <knighthawk> but bzr branch userName@bzr+ssh://serverName/file/path doesn't
[18:42] <jelmer> enigma42, yes, that will be slow indeed
[18:42] <knighthawk> how so I add the user name to the URL?
[18:42] <jelmer> enigma42, There's not usually a reason to pull the top of the repository
[18:42] <jelmer> enigma42, in fact, it should warn you if you do so
[18:42] <Peng_> knighthawk: bzr+ssh://username@host/path
[18:42] <Peng_> knighthawk: Just like HTTP.
[18:43] <enigma42> jelmer: What I'm trying to do is clone the whole SVN repo.
[18:43] <jelmer> enigma42, in that case, you'd want "bzr svn-import"
[18:43] <knighthawk> thanks Peng
[18:43] <jelmer> enigma42: that will import all of the branches in the repository
[18:43] <jelmer> enigma42: Right now you're cloning a repository as if it were a branch
[18:44] <enigma42> I'm trying to clone the repo so that I can push it to a new server.
[18:44] <enigma42> if I use svn-import, will that let me push it all to a new server?
[18:45] <jelmer> enigma42, yes, though you would have to run "bzr svn-push" for each branch that it imports
[18:46] <enigma42> Oh, OK. Let me try svn-import. Thanks.
[18:46] <jelmer> enigma42, You didn't get the warning from "bzr branch" ?
[18:47] <enigma42> I can't recall. Let me try again.
[18:47] <jelmer> E.g. if I do:
[18:47] <jelmer> ganieda:/data/tmp% bzr branch svn://svn.gnome.org/svn/gnome-specimen trpoq
[18:47] <jelmer> Cloning Subversion repository as branch. To import the individual branches in the repository, use "bzr svn-import".
[18:48] <enigma42> Oh yes, I did get that. I guess I just ignored it since I've cloned the repo as a branch before.
[18:49] <enigma42> It was probably faster to clone last time because I was using 0.4 and it didn't follow the copies.
[18:49] <knighthawk> Peng that worked for me from linux. How do I do that from Windows?
[18:51] <enigma42> jelmer: So that's definitely going to be strange to clone the repo as a branch if there are copies inside the repo.
[18:51] <jelmer> enigma42: I think that warning probably should be an error
[18:52] <jelmer> enigma42, bzr doesn't support copies so bzr-svn has to fetch the whole branch all over again
[18:52] <enigma42> jelmer: Yeah, because it makes sense to treat the repo as a branch up until it discovers the first copy, then it just gets strange.
[18:53] <jelmer> enigma42: I don't think it makes sense to treat the repository as a branch if there are "trunk" and "branches/*" directories
[18:53] <enigma42> jelmer: True.
[18:54] <enigma42> I still have to wonder why the SVN developers thought it was a good idea to flatten branches and tags into the tree. ack!
[18:54] <knighthawk> can anyone help me figure out bzr+ssh on windows? I have putty installed but I'm getting unsupport protocal for url
[18:54] <enigma42> jelmer: Now I get a different error: SubversionException: ("REPORT request failed on '/svn/sequoia/!svn/vcc/default'", 160005)
[18:55] <enigma42> knighthawk: bzr uses python parimiko for SSH, doesn't it?
[18:55]  * jelmer sighs
[18:55] <enigma42> ahem...that should be "paramiko"
[18:55] <jelmer> enigma42, can you pastebin the backtrace?
[18:55] <enigma42> Sure. One sec.
[18:56] <knighthawk> enigma42, sorry no clue Not really that up2date on ssh on windows. or python for that matter.
[18:56] <Peng_> knighthawk: Install paramiko (and its dependency pycrypto)
[18:57] <Peng_> Although the batteries-included installer probably comes with them...
[18:57] <enigma42> jelmer: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/86460/
[19:17] <enigma42> jelmer: Another quick question for you, I always have to have "svn+https://" in order to get bzr to use the SVN plugin, but the plugin keeps complaining about "svn+" as being deprecated. Is there a way to get bzr-svn to work with just using "https" without the "svn+"?
[19:18] <enigma42> jelmer: In my case, the https connection is all certificate based, so that might be what's going on.
[19:19] <enigma42> Since subversion knows about the cert, but I have no idea how to tell python about it.
[19:19] <jelmer> enigma42: I think it works without svn+ if you don't have pycurl installed
[19:21] <jelmer> enigma42, it's basically a bug in pycurl, which doesn't allow client certificates
[19:21] <jelmer> s/client certificates/unchecked certificates/
[19:21] <enigma42> Oh, OK.
[19:21] <enigma42> Without pycurl, is there a way to tell python about the cert?
[19:22] <jelmer> yeah, the other http backend in bzr works better I think
[19:22] <jelmer> svn+https:// just makes bzr skip pycurl and only try bzr-svn
[19:23] <enigma42> OK. That make sense why it works then and not just "https"
[19:23] <enigma42> jelmer: I just hit another assert error.
[19:23] <enigma42>   File "/home/neumann/.bazaar/plugins/svn/revmeta.py", line 310, in get_direct_lhs_parent_revmeta
[19:23] <enigma42>     assert self == firstrevmeta
[19:23] <jelmer> keep 'em coming :-) Please pastebin
[19:24] <jelmer> what's the full backtrace? What function is calling get_direct_lhs_parent_revmeta?
[19:25] <enigma42> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/86471/
[19:25] <enigma42> Hold on...let me make sure this machine is at the latest rev.
[19:27] <jelmer> I did fix a bug related to this recently..
[19:28] <enigma42> I'm re-running the branch with r2270, it was at r2264.
[19:28] <enigma42> It's still "determining changes", so it will be a little bit.
[19:35] <enigma42> jelmer: Yeah, I get the same error with slightly different line numbers
[19:35] <enigma42> line 313 instead of 310, etc.
[19:35] <enigma42> jelmer: You want me to pastbin that?
[19:36] <jelmer> enigma42, have you cleared the svn-cache on that machine recently?
[19:36] <enigma42> No.
[19:36] <enigma42> You want me to do that and try again?
[19:36] <jelmer> enigma42, please do
[19:36] <enigma42> OK. here goes....
[19:37] <enigma42> oooh...v2271 is out. ;-) I'll use that.
[19:38] <enigma42> jelmer: Is there any point in deleting 'subversion.conf' in addition to "rm -Rf svn-cache"?
[19:38] <jelmer> enigma42, no, that shouldn't be necessary
[19:38] <enigma42> OK
[19:39] <enigma42> OK...I'm trying again with v2271
[19:39] <enigma42> (and a clean cache)
[19:48] <enigma42> jelmer: OK. I just got the same error.
[19:49] <enigma42> jelmer: Let me know if there's more info I can send you.
[19:51] <jelmer> enigma42, can you pastebin the last backtrace? it would be useful to have the correct line numbers
[19:52] <enigma42> OK
[19:53] <enigma42> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/86485/
[19:56] <jelmer> thanks!
[19:58] <enigma42> jelmer: You're welcome. I'm going to be away for a bit...back later.
[20:17] <thumper> jelmer: hi
[20:17] <thumper> jelmer: how goes the svn-serve work?
[20:17] <thumper> jelmer: is there a road map document anywhere?
[20:17] <jelmer> thumper: Hi!
[20:17] <jelmer> thumper, It's going pretty well, but for now I'm focussing on getting 0.5 out the door
[20:18] <thumper> jelmer: what needs to be done for 0.5?
[20:18] <jelmer> thumper, bug fixing :-)
[20:18] <thumper> jelmer: heh
[20:19] <jelmer> thumper, Basically, bzr svn-serve only supports a mainline at the moment (not merged revisions yet), not commit support, no "svn diff" support
[20:19] <jelmer> and it can't update from an older revision yet
[20:19] <thumper> ok
[20:20] <jelmer> basically, it can do "svn checkout", "svn log", "svn ls", "svn stat", "svn proplist --revision"
[20:20] <jelmer> the others shouldn't be hard too implement, since all of the logic of mapping bzr revisions to svn revisions is already present in bzr-svn
[20:20] <jelmer> it's just a matter of doing it
[21:00] <jelmer> abentley, hi
[21:00] <abentley> jelmer: Hi.
[21:00] <jelmer> abentley, I'm trying to fix bug 307541, but I'm at a bit of a loss as to what's going on
[21:00] <jelmer> Do you have an idea perhaps?
[21:02] <abentley> jelmer: Not off the top of my head.  I think someone else had this recently, but that was with a private branch, so I couldn't reproduce it.
[21:07] <kfogel> In https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/306394, I have added a note that it appears to be fixed now.  What does "nominate for release" mean, and should I click that too? :-)  If the bug is fixed in the mainline, then does that mean the fix will automatically be in the next release?
[21:10] <jelmer> abentley, n/p, thanks for have a look
[21:10] <jelmer> kfogel, Usually the fix gets submitted to the bazaar mailing list, reviewed and then merged into bzr.dev
[21:11] <jelmer> When that's happened, the bug gets marked as "fix released"
[21:11] <kfogel> jelmer: well, the fix somehow already made it into mainline (because that's my parent branch, and I didn't fix the bug locally).  But somehow the bug was never updated.
[21:11] <kfogel> jelmer: so: it's already in bzr.dev.
[21:12] <jelmer> kfogel, thanks - I've marked it as "fix released" now
[21:12] <kfogel> jelmer: thanks
[21:12] <epsy> what was the last bzr-launchpad version that broke lp: links compatibility?
[21:12] <epsy> (or just added them)
[21:12] <jelmer> epsy, that was a very long time ago, I think
[21:13] <epsy> yeah, but some people still seem to be using such outdated versions
[21:14] <epsy> [22:10] <K-Yo>: bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: /home/xx/armagetron/lp:armagetronad/0.2.8/
[21:14] <jelmer> epsy: oh, that's a different issue I think
[21:14] <jelmer> epsy, At one point not all bzr commands expanded lp:
[21:14] <epsy> yeah
[21:15] <jelmer> 1.4rc1 fixed it for "bzr pull"
[21:16] <epsy> so basicaly 1.4 ?
[21:16] <epsy> gah
[21:16] <epsy> typoday :<
[21:16] <jelmer> epsy, yeah, 1.4
[21:17] <epsy> right, thanks
[21:25] <K-Yo> hello, I can't find the package file from the download page... it seems aptitude gives me an outdated version of bzr :< how can I solve that? (I just want to install it on my Debian machine!)
[21:29] <NfNitLoop> K-Yo: click on the "instructions" link for Debian on the download page.
[21:29] <NfNitLoop> It will tell you how to add the bzr package repository so that aptitude will grab the latest version.
[21:30] <NfNitLoop> Oh, wait, those instructions are a little vague. :)
[21:30] <K-Yo> NfNitLoop, so I can follow the "ubuntu" stuff?
[21:30] <NfNitLoop> I'm not sure...
[21:30] <NfNitLoop> there's backports.org for Debian backports.
[21:31] <NfNitLoop> but it looks like 1.5 is the latest there.
[21:31] <NfNitLoop> What I do on my debian box is just:  apt-get remove bzr;  download tar.gz from bazaar-vcs.org, unpack and run 'sudo python setup.py install'
[21:31] <K-Yo> okay
[21:32] <K-Yo> i'll try that :)
[21:32] <NfNitLoop> K-Yo: good luck. :)
[21:32] <K-Yo> ty
[21:32] <NfNitLoop> My server is still Debian, but it's notoriously slow for getting new software added.
[21:32] <NfNitLoop> Next time I have to rebuild it, I think it'll be Ubuntu. :p
[21:33] <jelmer> experimental has bzr 1.10
[21:33] <duckx> Martin around ?
[21:33] <duckx> Hy hy ;)
[21:33] <K-Yo> well, I just need over 1
[21:35] <poolie> hello all
[21:36] <jelmer> 'morning poolie
[21:37] <jelmer> jam, 1.10 isn't tagged :-(
[21:38] <jam> jelmer: nothing is tagged in bzr.dev, or were you hoping to get it from jam-integration?
[21:40] <jam> I just tagged it, I remember I actually had to delete the tag because I had to do a NEWS update
[21:40] <jam> but it should be good now
[21:41] <jelmer> jam, in bzr/1.10
[21:41] <jelmer> jam, since rc1 was tagged there
[21:42] <jelmer> jam, thanks!
[21:43] <jam> PQM doesn't seem to copy tags for some reason
[21:43] <jam> I haven't ever understood why
[21:43] <jam> I've always just kept them in jam-integration, and let them propagate to whoever wants them
[22:32] <duckx> jelmer: got one question from martin ...
[22:32] <duckx> I can't answer rightly now
[22:33] <duckx> The question is if I can return a boolean value from the config files ...
[22:34] <duckx> As far as I can get the thing, (Looked at the config.py file) there is no easy way to return a boolean value from the config files
[22:49] <enigma> jelmer: Did you need me to send you any more info on that assert error I posted earlier?
[22:49] <jelmer> enigma, sorry, haven't had any time to look at it further
[22:50] <enigma> No problem. Just let me know if you want more info.
[22:50] <jelmer> duckx, I think there is a as_bool() function
[22:51] <duckx> Yes indeed
[22:51] <duckx> But the way I would like to lookup my subject_with_hostname is the way the get_user_option does ...
[22:52] <duckx> And indeed the get_user_option does a get_value
[22:53] <duckx> as_bool only works this way config.get_parser()[section].as_bool('parameter_lookup')
[22:53]  * duckx still no get how the policy thing works in the config
[22:54] <jelmer> It may not be possible
[22:54] <jelmer> IIRC only one of the underlying objects has as_bool() and not the top-level Config object
[22:55] <duckx> Indeed
[22:55] <duckx> So my conclusion currently is that it is not possible to retrieve a boolean value from the config file ...
[22:56] <duckx> Is it possible to extend the get_user_option with a boolean=False parameter ?
[22:56] <duckx> I know it would break the API ...
[22:56] <duckx> But looks like it is the cleanest solution ....
[22:57] <jelmer> duckx: It's probably a better idea to raise this on the mailing list
[22:58] <jelmer> personally I would rather see a as_bool() function on the top-level config object
[22:58] <duckx> My concern is the following
[22:59] <duckx> I would like to set the subject_with_hostname in a specific location or globally
[22:59] <duckx> for example:
[22:59] <duckx> [/etc]
[22:59] <duckx> subject_with_hostname = true
[23:00] <duckx> For this to work I think I should use something like the get_user_option function to get this functionnality
[23:01] <duckx> That is the way I understand the config.py file so far ;)
[23:07] <jelmer> duckx, yeah, it seems to me like it would make sense to do that by implementing as_bool() on the top-level config object
[23:11] <duckx> jelmer: if i get the thing right it would make a call like config.as_bool(config.get_user_option('subject_with_hostname')) right ?
[23:12] <jelmer> duckx, Either that (although I don't see why as_bool() would need a config instance?) or having as_bool() call get_user_option for you
[23:14] <markh> igc: ?
[23:16] <duckx> jelmer: as_bool sadly could only be used linked extending a dictionnary ...
[23:16] <duckx> as it takes a key as parameter ...
[23:16] <duckx> And look for the key inside the self object ...
[23:17]  * duckx always love the perfid but clever martin questions ... ;)
[23:18] <duckx> Ok jelmer I will try to explain my concern on the mailing list ...
[23:18] <jelmer> duckx, the logic inside of the current as_bool() can be factored out though as a function that takes a string and returns a bool
[23:23] <jml> do you think bzr push --overwrite should imply --use-existing-dir?
[23:27] <kfogel> There's no particular convention for bugfix branch nicks, right?  I'm using "bug-NNNNN-short-desc-of-bug".
[23:28] <kfogel> Some existing nicks are like that, others are different.
[23:39] <Peng_> kfogel: I don't know of a convention. Yours sounds nice.
[23:40] <kfogel> Peng_: thanks.
[23:40] <Odd_Bloke> kfogel: I normally just use 'NNNNNN'. :)
[23:40] <kfogel> Peng_: can you sanity-check my bzr process for me?  It's the first time I'm fixing a bug, I want to make sure I'm going about things right.
[23:41] <kfogel> (say "yes" and I'll summarize what I'm doing)
[23:41] <kfogel> (say "no" and I'll silently choke back my tears :-) )
[23:41] <Peng_> "Maybe"? :D
[23:41] <kfogel> :-)
[23:41] <Odd_Bloke> kfogel: Just blurt it out and someone'll say something. :)
[23:42] <kfogel> In summary: I have a local "bzr.dev" tree, bzr info says: parent branch: http://bazaar-vcs.org/bzr/bzr.dev/
[23:42] <kfogel> In the parent dir, I did:
[23:42] <kfogel>    bzr branch bzr.dev bug-306394-status-continue-after-nonexistent-file
[23:42] <kfogel> Then I cd'd into the bug-... branch.
[23:42] <kfogel> Then I made the first of several changes to fix the bug, and committed my change.
[23:43] <Peng_> Sounds good so far.
[23:43] <duckx> jelmer: thx for your help mail sent ... hope it is clear enough ;)
[23:43] <kfogel> I plan to commit more changes, including a new regression test in bzrlib/tests/test_status.py.
[23:43] <kfogel> Peng_: EOT
[23:44] <Peng_> kfogel: Still sounds good. :)
[23:44] <kfogel> (When these are all ready, I'll figure out how to make my branch available for review -- can see that there's documentation on that, but haven't read it yet.)
[23:44] <kfogel> Peng_: okay, thanks!
[23:46] <poolie> hello duckx, kfogel, jelmer
[23:46] <poolie> jelmer, thanks for your update on bzr-git
[23:47] <kfogel> poolie: helloz
[23:50] <kfogel> hmmm:
[23:50] <kfogel>  WARNING  Plugin "Bzrtools" is not up to date with installed Bazaar version 1.11dev.
[23:50] <kfogel> There should be a newer version of Bzrtools available, e.g. 1.11.
[23:50] <Peng_> kfogel: You can push to a server you own, or Launchpad, or just use "bzr send" to send a bundle. Which would be covered by the docs, I guess. :P
[23:50] <kfogel> 'bzr shelve' seems to be failing
[23:50] <kfogel> Peng_: heh, you read my mind
[23:50] <kfogel> (was just reading abuot how to push to lp for review)
[23:51] <Peng_> kfogel: You're using bzr.dev? I guess you should use bzrtools's dev branch too, if you're not already.
[23:52] <kfogel> Peng_: I didn't even know I had or didn't have something called "bzrtools" until this moment.
[23:52] <Peng_> kfogel: ...Oh.
[23:52] <kfogel> bzr branch http://bazaar-vcs.org/bzr/bzr.dev/ bzr.dev
[23:53] <kfogel> that's the command I ran, from http://doc.bazaar-vcs.org/bzr.dev/en/developer-guide/HACKING.html
[23:53] <kfogel> Was I supposed to grab something else too?
[23:53] <Peng_> Not really. bzrtools is a popular plugin, but you don't have to use it.
[23:53] <kfogel> the string "bzrtools" does not appear in HACKING.html AFAICT
[23:53] <kfogel> Peng_: apparently if I want to use "shelve" I have to use it :-).  Or if I want to run the test suite...
[23:54] <kfogel> (the main bzr test suite, that is)
[23:54] <bob2> your OS's bzr package might have suggested it
[23:54] <Peng_> kfogel: bzrtools used to provide the shelve command, but it was recently merged into bzr.dev.
[23:54] <bob2> you can use bzr --no-plugins
[23:54] <kfogel> Peng_: hmmm.  So, I have a bzr installed on my system, but when I run the test suite, I expect the bzr in my local branch to be used.  Is that a wrong expectation?
[23:55] <Peng_> kfogel: Well, which "bzr" did you run? The system one or the local one? :P
[23:55] <Peng_> kfogel: Use "./bzr" or whatever if it's not in your PATH.
[23:55] <kfogel> Peng_: I'm in my branch (the bug-NNNNN branch branched from my bzr.dev, which is in turn a branch of mainline), and I run 'make check'.
[23:56] <Peng_> Oh.
[23:56] <kfogel> Peng_: ...t_shelve.TestShelveList.test_no_shelved_changes FAIL                  47ms
[23:56] <kfogel> test #594 I guess
[23:57] <kfogel> Peng_: the larger picture here is: I'm running the test suite to make sure it currently doesn't fail.  Then I will add a new test to make sure that my fix for 306394 does what I think it does.
[23:57] <kfogel> But I got stopped on step 1 (run the test suite) :-).
[23:57] <Peng_> Erm.
[23:58] <Peng_> Well, you can run "./bzr --no-plugins selftest". (make just runs "./bzr selftest" with some options.)
[23:58] <kfogel> I could just take my latest bzr.dev and run 'make install'.  That would probably solve the problem.  But it might mask this bug we're encountering now -- the one where the installed bzr is used when running the test suite, or so it seems.
[23:58] <Peng_> kfogel: You could also run "./bzr plugins -v" to see where bzrtools is coming from.
[23:58] <kfogel> Peng_: thx, trying that...
[23:58] <Peng_> kfogel: The Makefile explicitly runs "./bzr", so it's not using the installed one.
[23:58] <Peng_> Unless something really weird is happening, I guess..