[04:43] <inetpro> good morning
[04:43] <inetpro> Maaz: tell kilos Goeie more Oom
[04:43] <Maaz> inetpro: Okay, I'll tell Kilos on freenode
[05:30] <Kilos> sjoe
[05:30] <Kilos> more inetpro en ander
[06:20] <Kilos> pc rebooting on its own again
[06:21] <Kilos> sigh
[06:35] <sakhi> Morning
[06:35] <Kilos> hi sakhi
[06:42] <magespawn> good morning all
[06:49] <Kilos> hi magespawn SmilyBorg
[06:49] <SmilyBorg> Hey all
[06:54] <magespawn> hey SmilyBorg Kilos
[06:54] <magespawn> Kilos pc still giving probs?
[06:54] <Kilos> yeah started again last night
[06:55] <Kilos> swopping ram from other one to try localise the faulty one
[06:55] <Kilos> only slower now
[06:55] <Kilos> but min ram is better than no ram
[06:55] <magespawn> indeed
[06:58] <magespawn> you think it is a ram issue?
[06:59] <Kilos> well the monkey said reseat ram las week and for a week it worked good
[06:59] <Kilos> ram or mb
[07:00] <Kilos> s/las/last/
[07:05] <magespawn> you can try memtest
[07:09] <Kilos> i have and it goes through without any errors, that what is confusing
[07:10] <Kilos> and it is so time consuming
[07:18] <magespawn> yup i do not know of software that can accurately test a mb
[07:20] <Kilos> hi jrgns
[07:21] <Kilos> hey sneaky fly
[07:21] <jrgns> morning Kilos, all
[07:22] <Kilos> i need to fing something that will alert when you away peeps return
[07:22] <Kilos> find
[07:31] <playmonkey> morning Kilos
[07:32] <Kilos> hehe hi playmonkey
[07:32] <Kilos> is that you wes
[07:32] <playmonkey> the web chat works here
[07:32] <playmonkey> yes
[07:32] <Kilos> yay
[07:32] <playmonkey> but remember it is unsecure. 'they' can see what we talk about ;)
[07:32] <Kilos> well after all this time you got a way hey
[07:33] <Kilos> well done
[07:33] <Kilos> you gotta keep cleaning ff cache or somethintg
[07:33] <playmonkey> oh I always knew about webchat. I'm just too paranoid to actually *use* it :P
[07:33] <playmonkey> clean the cache for what?
[07:34] <Kilos> so the browser doesnt remember where it went
[07:34] <playmonkey> oh that is not a problem.
[07:34] <playmonkey> the problem is the connection goes through a network that is out of my control
[07:34] <Kilos> ah
[07:35] <playmonkey> [PC] <> [PROXY] <> [ISP] <> [WEB]
[07:35] <Kilos> so it can be monitored while working?
[07:35] <playmonkey> yup
[07:35] <Kilos> ai
[07:35] <playmonkey> Maaz: coffee on
[07:35]  * Maaz puts the kettle on
[07:36] <Kilos> Maaz, coffee please
[07:36] <Maaz> Kilos: Righto
[07:36] <Kilos> i spose its harmless if you come for coffee
[07:36] <playmonkey> Kilos: I need to post you that hedgewars game. it is quite fun.
[07:37] <Kilos> is it big?
[07:37] <playmonkey> rather large to download from all the nice music it has
[07:37] <playmonkey> 130MB about?
[07:37] <Kilos> data low till the 1st
[07:37] <Kilos> eeek
[07:37] <Kilos> hi henkj
[07:37] <henkj> hi Kilos
[07:37] <Kilos> not now playmonkey
[07:37] <playmonkey> hi henkj
[07:37] <Kilos> wont make the month
[07:38] <playmonkey> that why we can post you a love-bundle but I think when I get the new ubuntu discs i'll include those too
[07:38] <Kilos> and dont forget a dvd with
[07:38] <Kilos> um
[07:38] <Kilos> your os?
[07:38] <Kilos> crashbang
[07:38] <playmonkey> yes crunchbang
[07:38] <playmonkey> lol, not crash :p
[07:38] <Kilos> lol oh ya that too
[07:39] <Kilos> they got him
[07:39] <Kilos> aw
[07:39] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for playmonkey and Kilos!
[07:40] <Kilos> Maaz, ty
[07:40] <Maaz> You are welcome Kilos
[07:45] <Kilos> he didnt even get to have his coffee
[07:49] <playmonkey> back Kilos
[07:50] <playmonkey> had to close the window suddenly
[07:50] <Kilos> thought they got you
[07:50] <Kilos> dont jeapodise your work hey
[07:51] <Kilos> hi Vince-0
[07:51] <Vince-0> Hi Kilos , hoe gaan dit met jou
[07:51] <Kilos> Maaz, spell jeopordise
[07:51] <Maaz> Kilos: Suggestions: jeopardise
[07:51] <playmonkey> hi Vince-0
[07:51] <Vince-0> hi playmonkey hoe gaan dit
[07:51] <playmonkey> I don't think that spelling looks right Maaz
[07:51] <Kilos> goed dankie en jy Vince-0
[07:51] <playmonkey> good Vince-0
[07:53] <playmonkey> bet everyone is glad it is Friday
[07:55] <playmonkey> Vince-0: I've been getting into hedgewars a bit, the quality of the content is just too good
[07:56] <playmonkey> and it has lan play, or online via their official server. you can spectate games too, it works fine with a 2G/3G connection even.
[07:59] <Vince-0> Vrydag, ja
[07:59] <Vince-0> I'm bored at work
[08:00] <Vince-0> hedgewars? checking it out now
[08:00] <playmonkey> wish I was bored ;)
[08:00] <playmonkey> I have to get back to coding this C# MVC site...
[08:01] <Vince-0> using a framework?
[08:02] <playmonkey> yes, knockout and razor
[08:02] <playmonkey> and MEF
[08:02] <Vince-0> hedgewars intro vid - queen lol . its a worms knock-off
[08:03] <playmonkey> yeah its a worms remake :D
[08:10] <playmonkey> have a good day Vince-0 and Kilos and *your-name-here*
[08:17] <Vince-0> baai
[08:17] <Vince-0> oh, too late
[08:18] <Kilos> quick hey
[09:30] <Kilos> hi N8Wulf
[09:31] <N8Wulf> hey Uncle Kilos
[09:31] <N8Wulf> Fridaayyyy
[09:31] <Kilos> haha
[09:38] <superfly> afternoon
[09:38] <Kilos> hi superfly
[09:45] <N8Wulf> what's the kde groups name again pls?
[09:46] <N8Wulf> (blush)
[09:46] <Kilos> lol
[09:46] <superfly> kde group?
[09:46] <Kilos> ask superfly and inetpro
[09:46] <N8Wulf> #ubuntu-kde non comprende vous
[09:46] <superfly> #kubuntu
[09:46] <N8Wulf> Dankie dankie
[09:49] <inetpro> N8Wulf, Kilos: why?
[09:49] <Kilos> he needs some kde info of course
[09:49] <Kilos> you winning inetpro ?
[09:50] <N8Wulf> stuck with something small: how do I switch Workspaces? with gnome I pressed Cntrl+Alt & Left /right
[09:50] <Kilos> i click in that block of workspaces bottom left
[09:51] <N8Wulf> and to move a App we "normally" press Ctrl+Alt+Shift and Left/Right... Kilos... Clicking is for Windows users
[09:51] <Kilos> lol
[09:51] <superfly> N8Wulf: I set mine up to use Super+Alt+Left/Right
[09:51] <superfly> N8Wulf: you can set all of that up... let me quickly see...
[09:52] <superfly> N8Wulf: btw, don't forget Alt+F2
[09:53] <superfly> N8Wulf: System Settings -> Shortcuts & Gestures -> Global Keyboard Shortcuts, Select "KWin" as the component, and Bob's your uncle!
[09:53] <superfly> Meta = Super = Windows key
[09:55] <charl_> good morning
[09:55] <charl_> Maaz: coffee on
[09:55]  * Maaz starts grinding coffee
[09:57]  * inetpro is happy with all in one workspace and simply Alt+Tab for switching between apps and Alt+F2 to start new apps
[09:58] <inetpro> not sure why anyone would want different workspaces, but that's just me
[09:59] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for charl_!
[09:59] <inetpro> if I really want to move stuff to a 2nd desktop I just switch with Ctrl+F1,F2,Fx
[10:00] <Kilos> see N8Wulf the kde guys here are clever
[10:01] <N8Wulf> one reason being that I run IRC on my right hand workspace, my browser on the bottom workspace and then the rest in my Main workspace. then when I need to switch quickly between the 15 open Apps, I dont need to Alt-Tab 32 times
[10:02] <inetpro> 15 open apps? Why?
[10:03] <inetpro> superfly: by the way, my super key is not working by default, is there anywhere you need to enable it?
[10:04]  * inetpro goes to google it
[10:07] <inetpro> hmm...
[10:07] <inetpro> the key definitely works when I set it to launch the KMenu
[10:08] <inetpro> but shortcuts defined in above mentioned settings don't do what they should be doing
[10:08] <N8Wulf> thanx guys
[10:08] <inetpro> N8Wulf: working?
[10:08] <Kilos> inetpro, i asked you if you are winning with you move to new hardware
[10:08] <inetpro> Kilos: I'm always winning
[10:09] <Kilos> except when youre sukkeling
[10:09] <Kilos> hehe
[10:10] <inetpro> Kilos: it will take some time in between many other daily challenges, we're sorting out the memory tonight
[10:12] <Kilos> whew long hours hey
[10:12] <Kilos> shame
[10:12] <Kilos> keep us informed though
[10:22] <N8Wulf> Heeelpp... Server 12.10 , I'm trying to edit the resolv.conf but I see that it is dynamically managed by resolvconf
[10:23] <N8Wulf> so how do I change the DNS server in the resolv.conf? pleas someone
[10:27] <N8Wulf> the mighty Google has spoken
[10:27] <N8Wulf> http://askubuntu.com/questions/157154/how-do-i-add-changes-resolv-conf-without-getting-overwritten
[10:54] <magespawn> bbl
[10:54] <Kilos> k
[11:14] <N8Wulf> What's for Lunch gents?
[11:20] <inetpro> N8Wulf: i just noticed that steers dropped their prices
[11:21] <inetpro> with combo meals
[11:21] <inetpro> for*
[11:23] <N8Wulf> Greek Salad with lots of Feta... made by Fruit and Veg
[11:23] <inetpro> nice!
[11:24] <N8Wulf> indeed... and Big Bananas for pudding
[11:27] <Kilos> lol
[11:28] <Kilos> what is a caterpillar in afrikaans
[11:29] <Kilos> http://code.google.com/apis/language/translate/overview.html
[11:29] <Kilos> dont work that link
[11:29] <Kilos> goes to google developers
[11:31] <superfly> inetpro: probably because you're already using the Super key as a dedicated shortcut for something else
[11:40] <inetpro> superfly: I don't actually, have never used it since using kubuntu... ok perhaps not never
[11:41]  * inetpro is used to many default kde shortcuts without needing the super key
[11:53] <N8Wulf> Any Geniuses in the house for Lamp Server installation?
[11:55] <N8Wulf> Using this: sudo tasksel install lamp-server  I'm supposed to get a Prompt to create a MySql password, but this never happened. Should I remove and reInstall or can I set the PW in another way?
[11:56] <superfly> N8Wulf: google it, there are tons of blog posts out there on how to reset your MySQL admin password
[11:56] <superfly> s/admin/root/
[11:56] <N8Wulf> tanx
[12:11] <Squirm> good afternoon
[12:14]  * Squirm pops in
[12:16] <N8Wulf> afternoon Squirm
[12:16] <Squirm> hello N8Wulf, superfly
[12:19] <N8Wulf> pls point me in the right direction.. busy setting up a smei headless box. I have to run a Webbrowser on the box as part of the setup, so I'm installing LXDE quickly. Do I have to run the LXDE first, then something like VNC-Server so that I can connect remotelly/
[12:19] <N8Wulf> ?
[12:19] <N8Wulf> *don't ask me what a "smei" is, typo
[12:21] <inetpro> you're doing it wrong
[12:21] <inetpro> a web server should never require a gui
[12:22] <N8Wulf> http://docs.moodle.org/20/en/Step-by-step_Installation_Guide_for_Ubuntu
[12:22] <N8Wulf> just above the Step for Setup a virtual server
[12:24] <inetpro> remind me to never install Moodle
[12:25] <N8Wulf> which brings me back to my Q... some kind of remote X possible?
[12:26] <inetpro> N8Wulf: try using a text browser
[12:27] <inetpro> no gui needed
[12:27] <inetpro> elinks, links, lynx or any other
[12:33] <N8Wulf> good idea.. will let you know
[13:12] <Squirm> and N8Wulf, it is possible to have a remote X session
[13:12] <Squirm> just don't ask me how to do it :P
[13:12] <Squirm> only way I know of is ss -x
[13:13] <N8Wulf> will read up on that one thanx for the tip
[13:13] <Squirm> well, ssh -X
[13:13] <Squirm> it brings an X application through ssh.
[13:13] <N8Wulf> ow COOL
[13:47] <inetpro> I would however stay away from installing X components on a server
[13:47] <inetpro> the only thing that is sometimes needed is libraries
[14:02] <superfly> if you need something like X, use Xvfb
[14:13] <charl_> i find it hard to believe that there is now an ubuntu derivative that is actually called "descentos"
[14:13] <charl_> http://www.descentos.org/
[14:13] <charl_> how unoriginal can you get
[14:14] <charl_> (i'm not criticising the distro by the way, just the name...)
[15:00] <N8Wulf> have a gr8 weekend all
[15:05] <inetpro> N8Wulf: thanks, same to you
[15:06] <Kilos> cheers N8Wulf storm coming inetpro
[15:06] <Kilos> there by your side
[15:06] <inetpro> Kilos: nee, it's already over
[15:06] <inetpro> or you mean by my house?
[15:07] <inetpro> in city centre we just had a massive amount of rain
[15:07] <inetpro> well, massive in a short space of time
[15:07] <inetpro> sun is out again
[15:07] <N8Wulf> storm hitting the Vaal now
[15:17] <hibana> Kilos: and you didn't even greet me?
[15:22] <Kilos> aw sorry hibana was asleep
[15:22] <Kilos> just woke when dogs barked when sis got home
[15:23] <Kilos> storming your house side
[15:25] <hibana> ahh he's sleeping in the middle of the day?
[15:25] <hibana> ai!
[15:27] <magespawn> hey all finnally back at a keyboard
[15:27] <Kilos> dont spot man
[15:27] <Kilos> kop klap dag
[15:27] <Kilos> grrr
[15:27] <inetpro> Kilos: jammer oom
[15:27] <Kilos> np
[15:27]  * inetpro going down in a few minutes
[15:28] <Kilos> see some interesting stuff here
[15:28]  * hibana ready to take control
[15:28] <Kilos> good luck inetpro hibana
[15:30] <hibana> Kilos: thanks
[15:32] <magespawn> whats up Kilos?
[15:33] <hibana> hmm...
[15:33] <hibana> dood soos 'n mossie
[15:34] <Kilos> aw poor inetpro
[15:35] <magespawn> anywho i am off for the rest of the day,see you later all
[15:36] <Kilos> later magespawn
[15:54] <Kilos> saw some interesting stuff about x onna server
[15:54] <Kilos> hehe
[15:59] <inetpro> hello world
[16:02] <Kilos> wb inetpro well done
[16:02] <Kilos> plustwo, with you?
[16:02] <Kilos> or coincidence
[16:11] <Kilos> oh my
[16:23] <Kilos> aw toods banana
[16:23] <Kilos> i mean hibana
[16:23] <inetpro> Kilos: ai!
[16:23] <inetpro> en dit sonder om te groet?
[16:24] <Kilos> sies
[16:24] <Kilos> maar hy is oud so ons kan hom verskoon
[16:25] <hibana> hmm...
[16:25] <Kilos> haha
[16:25] <Kilos> jy moet groet ballie
[16:26] <hibana> sjoe
[16:26] <hibana> sorry oom
[16:26]  * hibana going to sleep now
[16:26] <hibana> bye oom
[16:26] <Kilos> nag hibana lekker rus
[16:26] <hibana> mooi bly julle!
[16:26] <Kilos> werk als
[16:27] <Kilos> ai!
[16:27]  * inetpro voel stukke beter
[16:27] <Kilos> mooi
[16:29] <Kilos> hi drussell hows things
[16:29] <Kilos> ?
[16:30] <inetpro> wb drussell
[16:31] <drussell> Kilos: good! Just back from Stockholm... -29 degrees there ;o)
[16:31] <Kilos> eeeek
[16:31] <drussell> inetpro: thx
[16:45] <smile> hi
[16:45] <smile> :p
[16:45] <Kilos> hi smile
[16:46] <smile> how are you kilos? :)
[16:46] <Kilos> good ty smile and you?
[16:47] <smile> im okay
[16:47] <smile> :)
[16:48] <smile> im cleaning up old kernels :p
[16:48] <Kilos> good
[16:50] <smile> yeah :)
[16:50] <smile> 665 mb :o
[16:51] <Kilos> such big kernels?
[16:56] <smile> haha, http://www.praag.co.za/nuus-magazine-402/internasionale-nuus-magazine-399/12951-gaan-vlieg.html
[16:56] <smile> no, four :)
[16:56] <Kilos> ah
[17:32] <Kilos> wbb
[17:38] <Kilos> hi not_found
[17:38] <not_found> hiya uncle Kilos
[17:40] <not_found> ChanServ: /help
[17:40] <not_found> >.
[17:40] <not_found> >.>
[17:41] <smile> Kilos: wb :p
[17:43] <Kilos> ty smile
[17:44] <Kilos> wassup not_found
[17:44] <not_found> not much uncle Kilos ... playing around with chanserv
[17:45] <Kilos> lol what you wanna do
[17:45] <Kilos> ChanServ: /help
[17:45] <Kilos> that does nothing
[17:45] <not_found> oh I just had to op so I could change the topic in another channel...
[17:45] <not_found> already got it done now :p
[17:45] <Kilos> ah
[17:46] <Kilos> did that command give you a message or options?
[17:46] <not_found> nope
[17:46] <Kilos> ah
[17:46] <not_found> /msg ChanServ help worked
[17:46] <Kilos> ya
[17:46] <not_found> /msg ChanServ help commands worked
[17:47] <not_found> takes me a while but where there is a google there is a way
[17:47] <Kilos> lol
[17:47] <Kilos> you must remember those things man
[17:48] <Kilos>  like /msg nickserv Nick etc
[17:48] <not_found> perhaps... for the one time in a year I might need it
[18:41] <Kilos> inetpro, why you use hibana when working on system?
[18:41] <inetpro> Kilos: so that I could see when inetpro got cut
[18:42] <Kilos> oh ty
[18:42] <inetpro> was connecting with hibana from a different route
[18:42] <Kilos> via?
[18:42] <inetpro> same network, just another server
[18:43] <Kilos> from same pc?
[18:43] <inetpro> another server at the gate of our network
[19:28] <Kilos> night all. sleep tight.
[19:30] <smile> bye :)
[19:30]  * smile waves


[12:12] <cfaun> are new packages supposed to be submitted to REVU? If so, where (the ubuntu site links to the german site and the german site links to the ubuntu site)?
[12:13] <ajmitch> the 'how to register' & 'how to upload' sections are relevant on the wiki
[12:14] <cfaun> thanks
[12:56] <tseng> Nafallo_away: hey how is that new apt proxy working
[02:05] <dan_> hello
[02:28] <Kyral> Heyo
[03:05] <LaserJock> hi Kyral
[03:05] <Kyral> Yo
[03:05] <LaserJock> how's it going?
[03:06] <Kyral> Good, just got back from Ubuntu Love
[03:06] <LaserJock> how was it?
[03:06] <Kyral> Fuuuunnnn
[03:06] <Kyral> and the food was good too
[03:06] <LaserJock> well, that is the most important thing for college students ;-)
[03:08] <farruinn> I somehow missed the fact that there was free lunch :/
[03:08] <Kyral> lol
[03:08] <Kyral> Of course you missed the fact, it went over your SUNY head j/k ;P
[03:08] <Kyral> Hoi Mez!
[03:15] <LaserJock> looks like Mez can't make up his mind ;-)
[03:15] <Kyral> haha
[03:18] <Riddell> he's reinstalling his computer
[03:18] <Kyral> hehe
[03:21] <Kyral> hey hub
[03:21] <Amaranth> Riddell: kick him and tell him to wait before joining IRC :)
[03:21] <Riddell> he was showing me xchat too
[03:29] <Kyral> Stay put!
[03:30] <Mez> hey
[03:30] <Mez> i was going upstairs
[03:30] <Mez> leave me along
[03:30] <Mez> alone
[03:30] <Kyral> sorry it was a joke ;P
[03:31] <Mez> and I was playing with you
[03:31] <Mez> anyways
[03:31] <Mez> to McDonalds :D
[03:31] <Kyral> You know how hard sarcasm is to detect over IRC?
[03:31] <Kyral> And I have have a hard time detecting it IRL
 helps
[03:32] <Kyral> No kiddin' ;P
[03:34] <Amaranth> I actually prefer </dontkillme>
[03:35] <Lathiat> i oftren use *hide* too
[03:35] <Lathiat> err, *hides*
[03:35] <Lathiat> or /me ducks
[03:35] <Lathiat> :P)
[03:35] <Kyral> or j/k ;P
[03:35] <Lathiat> argh the P key of death
[03:35] <Amaranth> wikipedia has an entry on SMEG
[03:36] <Amaranth> with incorrect info, of course
[03:36] <Amaranth> and no link to the wikipedia entry about me, damnit! :)
[03:55] <zakame> ehlo everyone.name
[03:58] <Kyral> yo
[04:06] <Kyral> hmm, does an email address have to be subscribed to a Mailing List to send to it...
[04:06] <Amaranth> not usually
[04:07] <zakame> depends on the ML
[04:07] <Kyral> Assume Ubuntu MLs ;P
[04:07] <Kyral> My college blocked lists.ubuntu.com from me receiving emails from them after a flood from Dapper-Changes ;P
[04:08] <Kyral> so I routed them to my GMail account. But I still want to reply through my college email because thats where my GPG key is registered to
[04:08] <zakame> why not use the Dapper-Changes RSS?
[04:09] <Kyral> because I never really got the hang of RSS and its easier for me to hit the key combo to Evolution ;P
[04:11] <zakame> ah
[04:11] <Kyral> either that or I figure out how to add my GMail addy to my GPG Key
[04:24] <schweeb> Kyral: if you have an NNTP client, you can subscribe to the list via gmane.org
[04:26] <Kyral> Wazzat?
[04:27] <Kyral> nm, I'll keep sending via my college mail
[04:27] <Kyral> and receiving via GMail
[04:27] <schweeb> check out gmane.org
[04:27] <schweeb> it's the bomb
[04:27] <schweeb> you can read any of a few hundred OSS mail lists through your newsreader
[04:27] <Kyral> I'll be okay ;P
[04:28] <schweeb> (which is  usually built into your email client)
[04:28] <schweeb> and you don't have to worry about filling up your personal inboxes
[04:28] <Kyral> schweeb it wasn't that it was being filled
[04:28] <Kyral> I think my college took the volume of email to be spam and blocked it
[04:29] <schweeb> by filling, I mean volume of mail :p
[04:31] <Kyral> I'd rather just add my GMail to my GPG Key
[04:31] <Kyral> but I don't know how to
[04:32] <LaserJock> wouldn't you need to have a new key?
[04:32] <Kyral> I don't think so...
[04:33] <Kyral> Just a new UID
[04:42] <Kyral> Like so...
[04:43] <Kyral> hey sh
[04:44] <\sh> evening
[04:44] <LaserJock> Kyral: so you were able to do it?
[04:45] <Kyral> yah, just tacked on a new UID to my GPG key and updated it on the keyserve
[04:45] <LaserJock> hmm, cool. I have been wondering if that was possible
[04:52] <Kyral> long day
[04:52] <\sh> ok.../me needs some sleep...
[04:52] <\sh> tomorrow 9 o'clock sharp :)
[04:53] <Kyral> same for me
[04:53] <Kyral> but class ;P
[04:53] <Kyral> Have fun \sh. I'll be keeping tabs on it via Launchpad ;P
[04:53] <\sh> Kyral: u too :)
[04:54] <Kyral> Was nice meeting you BTW
[04:54] <\sh> Kyral: it was a pleasure to meat all of you :)
[04:54] <Kyral> Can't wait until the next one :D
[04:54] <\sh> yeah..
[04:55] <Kyral> Assuming I can find my way outta the country ;P
[04:58] <_vlad> Hello everyone, I wanted to join you Ubuntu in development effort and Mez pointed me onto this channel.
[04:58] <Mez> _vlad, now might not be a good time
[04:58] <Mez> everyones gettign ready to go to bed
[04:59] <_vlad> ups, ook
[04:59] <_vlad> I'll try later.
[05:00] <Mez> (we're all in montreal - and about to sleep)
[05:01] <_vlad> so, enjoy UBZ
[05:23] <Riddell> _vlad: excellent
[05:23] <Riddell> _vlad: we are busy at the conference this week but best way to start is to learn how to package, find something that needs packaging and package it
[05:24] <Riddell> _vlad: also bug triaging is very welcome
[05:24] <Riddell> _vlad: as is writing documentation, translatios and artwork
[05:29] <sladen> sleep... tut tut
[05:30] <Riddell> _vlad: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
[05:30] <Riddell> see UniverseCandidates for stuff to package, KubuntuPackagingGuide for how to package
[05:30] <_vlad> Riddell, I will surely look at it (I did it already but it won't hurt)
[05:31] <Riddell> _vlad: feel free to go through all the KDE bugs and fix/close/mark as duplicate
[05:31] <Riddell> then I'll buy you beer
[08:20] <zakame> hi all
[08:23] <zyga> morning
[08:25] <tritium> good night all
[08:26] <zakame> afternoon here :))
[08:39] <bjweeks> Hello.
[08:40] <zakame> hi bjweeks
[08:41] <bjweeks> I was interested in becomeing a motu. I've read some on the wiki and got my launchpad account set up.
[08:43] <zakame> bjweeks: what packages do you intend to work on?
[08:44] <bjweeks> I was interested in the gameing related packages eg. xqf or anything that is needed.
[08:47] <bjweeks> oops.
[08:47] <zakame> that's a good start
[08:49] <bjweeks> I have noticed that quite a few of the gameing debs are outdated or need to be packeged.
[08:51] <zakame> bjweeks: is this coming from UniverseCandidates?
[08:56] <bjweeks> I count 24 gameing related packeges in UniverseCandidates.
[08:57] <zakame> bjweeks: good! :D pick one or three, and work on those :) then once you have some packages, put those up for REVU :)
[08:57] <bjweeks> I've seen few out of date packages just looking around in Synapic.
[08:57] <bjweeks> Cool
[09:11] <zakame> bjweeks: wish you luck then! :D
[09:12] <zakame> bjweeks: just document your work on the wiki and on LP, and make sure those packages are really working :)
[09:37] <bjweeks> Anybody here?
[09:45] <bjweeks> Anybody?
[09:55] <_Tonio_> hi
[10:01] <shawarma> bjweeks: There is now.
[10:01] <shawarma> _Tonio_: Hi.
[10:03] <_Tonio_> hi
[10:08] <bjweeks> I'm back
[10:10] <bjweeks> shawarma do you have any info on packaging binary only apps?
[10:11] <bjweeks> Like a how-to or wiki?
[10:13] <shawarma> bjweeks: I think so. Gimme a sec.
[10:15] <shawarma> bjweeks: It's not pretty, but it works: http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Debian-Binary-Package-Building-HOWTO/
[10:15] <shawarma> What do you need it for?
[10:17] <bjweeks> I'm learning to package apps and the one I want to do in binary only.
[10:19] <bjweeks> All the how-to I've seen are for compileing source in to a deb
[10:19] <dfarning> Hey I just built my first ubuntu package--do I upload it to REVU
[10:19] <ivoks> yes
[10:20] <ivoks> source, not package
[10:20] <dfarning> so then the source will sit until some reviews it?
[10:21] <ivoks> yes
[10:21] <dfarning> ivoks: thanks
[10:27] <shawarma> bjweeks: Ok. I just wanted to make sure that you're aware that a package that was made according to that howto never could enter Ubuntu.
[10:28] <bjweeks> Well thats what i was planing.
[10:29] <bjweeks> So how would you make a package with just binarys and data?
[10:29] <bjweeks> They would be diffrent packages I would think
[10:30] <shawarma> Can you please tell me what you're trying to package?
[10:30] <bjweeks> The game cube.
[10:31] <bjweeks> It is open source but to play online you have to use the binary release.
[10:31] <shawarma> bjweeks: I see.. And that's some closed source thing?
[10:31] <shawarma> bjweeks: I see.
[10:32] <shawarma> bjweeks: Well, if it's something you want to enter Ubuntu it needs to be able to build from source.
[10:32] <bjweeks> The dev uses a differnt netcode to provent hacking.
[10:32] <bjweeks> It is on the UniverseCandidates list.
[10:33] <dfarning> ivoks: Just want to verify-- I should used the pristen upstream source  with a dpatched dropped in debian/patched
[10:33] <sistpoty2_uni> hi folks
[10:33] <sistpoty2_uni> ping siretart
[10:35] <bjweeks> I guess I'll find a differnt app to package. :)
[10:36] <shawarma> bjweeks: Maybe I misunderstood your original question.
[10:36] <shawarma> bjweeks: What do you mean by a "binary only app"?
[10:37] <bjweeks> To you play the game online you have to use the binary provided by the dev
[10:38] <shawarma> bjweeks: Isn't it just the network part of it that's binary?
[10:39] <bjweeks> No the game binary in compiled with the different netcode
[10:39] <bjweeks> But the game data is the same
[10:40] <shawarma> bjweeks: I see..  Just fix the install script or makefile or whatever to install in the tmp directory.
[10:41] <shawarma> bjweeks: There's just no howto for it that I know of.
[10:41] <bjweeks> It has no make file just extract and go.
[10:41] <shawarma> bjweeks: Then you just make sure it extracts to the right place.
[10:42] <bjweeks> That sounds easy, now I have to do it. :)
[10:43] <shawarma> It's not that hard actually.
[10:46] <bjweeks> One last question, should you just but the directory in /usr/local/games/"mygame" or split the binary and the data files?
[11:00] <bjweeks> Do I need to serpate the binary and data in differnt debs?
[11:02] <shawarma> bjweeks: Not necessarily.
[11:02] <shawarma> bjweeks: Oh, and never put anything in /usr/local
[11:02] <shawarma> bjweeks: If the installer does that, fix it.
[11:03] <bjweeks> No, That where I thought it would go.
[11:05] <bjweeks> Where would be a good place for the game data?
[11:07] <bjweeks> s
[11:17] <bjweeks> I'm going to bed shawarma thanks for all you help.
[12:13] <\sh> moins
[12:17] <siretart> hi
[12:34] <tiefox> will the banshee package be updated with the today's release ?
[12:34] <tseng> yes, certainly
[12:35] <tseng> but not in any kind of rush, im just now testing it myself
[12:39] <tiefox> thx :) look's like the ipod support has been greatyl improved..so now i will be able to use my shuffle with it in this new version
[01:20] <pef> hello
[02:07] <zakame> heya
[02:32] <siretart> hi lamont :)
[02:33] <siretart> lamont: we are in #ubz
[02:47] <zakame> wb dholbach
[02:47] <dholbach> morning zakame
[02:52] <zakame> hmm, just making sure, but if a source tarball is a .bz2, do I have to repackage it to become a .gz?
[03:01] <_Tonio_> zakame: yes you have to.
[03:10] <zakame> _Tonio_: okies, thanks again :)
[03:13] <_Tonio_> no pb :)
[03:17] <Gloubiboulga> hello
[03:20] <zakame> hi Gloubiboulga
[03:21] <zakame> is there some reference or tutorial on building shared library packages?  I'm looking at http://arch.debian.org/arch/private/srivasta/#libs
[03:25] <Gloubiboulga> is the ubuntu policy for packages the same than the debian one ?
[03:26] <Gloubiboulga> (I am a beginner in packaging)
[03:26] <zakame> Gloubiboulga: for the most part, yes
[03:27] <zakame> Gloubiboulga: see DeveloperResources on the wiki
[03:27] <Gloubiboulga> ok thanks
[03:32] <jpatrick> siretart: ping
[03:33] <siretart> jpatrick: not the best time right now, what is it?
[03:34] <jpatrick> I was wondering if you could give me an account of revu
[03:34] <siretart> jpatrick: your keyid?
[03:34] <jpatrick> F4944AEE
[03:35] <jpatrick> It's on keyserver.ubuntu.com
[03:35] <siretart> jpatrick: done
[03:35] <jpatrick> thanks
[04:53] <egoleo> i am new here
[04:54] <egoleo> and i want to be part of the great ubuntu family
[05:22] <\sh> 1/qu9it
[05:32] <whiprush> hi mark_ramm
[05:44] <chillywilly> anyone know how you can make apt-get always prompt for installation of a package?
[05:44] <chillywilly> apt-get install foo...are you sure? [y/n]
[05:44] <Treenaks> man apt-get ;)
[05:52] <egoleo> so any tutorial on how to package
[05:53] <schweeb> the debian new maintainer guide
[05:53] <schweeb> or there's stuff on the wiki
[05:53] <egoleo> so can i get the link
[05:54] <Mez> siretart: request for revu-build on k3b
[05:54] <schweeb> couple mins, busy w/ work
[06:00] <farruinn> egoleo: www.debian.org/doc has a number of resources
[06:01] <egoleo> thnx farr
[06:04] <farruinn> I'm attempting to get pbuilder to create a dapper chroot on my breezy install.  There is no dapper script in /usr/lib/deboostrap/scripts, so I'm just 'cp breezy dapper' there. Any changes I should make to that script?
[06:06] <Mez> farruinn, dont bother
[06:06] <Mez> build a breezy chroot
[06:06] <Mez> then do a mnaul upgrade
[06:06] <Mez> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PBuilderHowto
[06:07] <farruinn> ok, thanks
[06:08] <Mez> though I'll actually have a look at that
[06:08] <farruinn> the wiki or the deboostrap package?
[06:08] <farruinn> if this is the recommended procedure the wiki page should be changed I think
[06:11] <chillywilly> Treenaks: I looked at the man page and there's no option to set to always ask for confirmation before installing packages...I also tried setting APT::Get::Assume-Yes "false"; in apt.conf, but screw it...it was for a friend anyway ;P
[06:16] <siretart> Mez: I show you how you can do that
[06:16] <Mez> siretart: I dont have access do i?
[06:16] <siretart> Mez: you should have, you are in the pbuilder group
[06:19] <siretart> Mez: try to relogin, I added you to some extra groups
[06:19] <Mez> which groups?
[06:19] <Mez> nologin
[06:19] <Mez> :P
[06:19] <siretart> hrhr
[06:19] <siretart> revu and www-data
[06:20] <Mez> yeah i saw
[06:20] <Mez> so now I can work on revu ?
[06:20] <siretart> sure
[06:20] <siretart> wait, I'll join you just a sek
[06:21] <Mez> and I was gonna go for a cig
[06:22] <Mez> ah, BP promotion is over here anyways
[06:23] <Mez> \sh: cigarette?
[06:27] <siretart> Mez: yepp
[06:33] <Gloubiboulga> Is a "binary-without-manpage" lintian warning a big deal ?
[06:36] <GazerWork> Gloubiboulga, the Debian New Maintainers' Guide  says : Your program(s) should have a manual page. If they don't, each of these files is a template that you can fill out.
[06:38] <Gloubiboulga> ok
[06:39] <Gloubiboulga> but it's not my program :)
[06:41] <GazerWork> Gloubiboulga, but it is your package :), you can write the manpage using the templates provided by dh_make
[06:41] <schweeb> Gloubiboulga: kinda depends if you're packaging it yourself, or just fixing an existing package
[06:42] <schweeb> if you're packaging something new, you definitely should make a manpage... if you're fixing an existing package, you should probably add one, and send the changes upstream
[06:42] <Gloubiboulga> I'm packaging myself
[06:43] <Gloubiboulga> I'm in touch with the author, I'll see with him what can be done
[06:43] <dredg> packaging = porting someone elses app to debian/ubuntu/whatever. for that purpose it's technically your program
[06:44] <Gloubiboulga> ok ok
[06:45] <siretart> Mirno: around?
[06:45] <Mirno> siretart: yupp I am
[06:46] <siretart> Mirno: I've seen you had included xdtv into plf
[06:46] <Mirno> siretart: (you're sure lucky guy I wan't 2 minits ago and i won't very soon again)
[06:46] <Mirno> siretart: In the testing rep only
[06:46] <siretart> Mirno: I'm a bit confused about this, because I thought we agreed that you don't use that "ubuntu" but "plf" in the version
[06:47] <Mirno> siretart: we did
[06:47] <siretart> http://antesis.freecontrib.org/mirrors/ubuntu/devnotpublic/pool/free/xdtv/
[06:47] <siretart> its called  xdtv_2.2.0-0.5ubuntu1
[06:47] <Mirno> siretart: But i didn't make the package I bet we forgot to acknowledge people ont he list.
[06:47] <siretart> Mirno: but you built it in your pbuilder, did you?
[06:47] <Mirno> siretart: ah I see : the wiki is up to date on the english part only. it's still ubuntu ont he fr one.
[06:48] <Mirno> siretart: no
[06:48] <Mirno> siretart: the maintainer build it
[06:48] <siretart> err
[06:48] <Mirno> siretart: peopel submit binaries with their sources
[06:48] <siretart> Mirno: the next thing: why don't you try to get that into ubuntu itself?
[06:50] <siretart> Mirno: I thought we agreed on cooperation.
[06:50] <Mirno> siretart: xdtv ? well It's the maintainers job. look the other packages he will submit them to motu or backports or whatever as I saw. If you give him confirmation on xdtv and deps then he will submitit to MOTU and'll remove it from plf
[06:50] <siretart> Mirno: well, I thought you are one of the heads of plf/ubuntu. Please don't expect me to run after each individual plf member
[06:51] <siretart> Mirno: why should he have concerns that that package would not be suitable for inclusion into ubuntu?
[06:51] <siretart> that actually whay I'm talking/asking
[06:51] <Mirno> siretart: I have no idea
[06:52] <siretart> Mirno: what should we do about that now?
[06:53] <Mirno> siretart: we have a list on the wiki of package that can go to plf. If you see any that should go to motu please make us know. People who join plf are packageing things that are marqued ont the wiki page.
[06:53] <siretart> Mirno: basically EVERYTHING that is freely distributable can be included into ubuntu. I told you that a couple of times
[06:54] <Mirno> siretart: ah really ? why not libdvdcss2 then ?
[06:54] <Lathiat> Mirno: because thats not freely distributable
[06:54] <Lathiat> its illegal in many countries
[06:54] <siretart> Mirno: because it is not legal to redistribute it in many many countries. we discussed that several times
[06:55] <Mirno> siretart: Lathiat: sorry I read the liscence it says GPL .. how the hell i'm supposed to know it's illegale somewhere ? it's not in my country... that's why some people make that list of package that can't go (or they think so) into MOTU
[06:56] <Lathiat> Mirno: it is GPL, so its free in that sense, but it is illegal to distribute/use it in lots of coutnries, particularly those hosting main mirror sites, etc etc
[06:56] <Mirno> lamont: did you just read what I said ?
[06:57] <Mirno> Lathiat: *
[06:57] <GazerWork> Mirno, It's a Patent related problem, not licence problem.
[06:58] <siretart> Mirno: I wrote and explained you extensivly in a very loing email on plf discuss
[06:58] <Mirno> Lathiat: that's why we distribute it in PLF 'cause it's illegale... in some countries. So the " EVERYTHING that is freely distributable" is not true as libdvdcss2 is freely distribuable as said by the authors, i'm no awyer How will I know it's not freely distribuable as the author tells it is freely distribuable
[06:58] <siretart> Mirno: what else do you expect from me?
[07:00] <Mirno> siretart: I didn't ask for anything, you offered it, and i'm happyly takeing and doing whatever I can to run that plf thing. i'm sorry if doesn't go as good as you wish or as fast as you wish, but we a really trying.
[07:04] <siretart> just a sek
[07:04] <Mirno> siretart: i'm writting a mail to the lsit about the plf extension.
[07:12] <siretart> Mirno:may I make a wish?
[07:12] <Mirno> siretart: You sure do
[07:12] <siretart> Mirno: please don't accept anything into plf that has not been rejected by motu team
[07:13] <siretart> you'll save work, and can provide better support for your packages
[07:13] <Mirno> siretart: oki, i'll 'd be happy, I just don't know where to to find such list of rejectged packages
[07:13] <siretart> Mirno: ask here or on<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[07:14] <siretart> Mirno: usually we are in this irc channel
[07:14] <Mirno> siretart: ok, 'll ask on channel
[07:22] <herzi> dholbach: ping
[07:25] <dholbach> herzi: pong
[07:28] <Mirno> siretart: sorry i don't have my laptop we me, could you remind me the pbuild how-to url ?
[07:32] <Mirno> found it https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto.
[07:33] <Mirno> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto (without the . sorry)
[07:35] <Mirno> siretart: I mailed the list.
[07:35] <Mirno> sladen: hi !
[07:35] <Mirno> slomo: Hi !
[07:35] <Mirno> :)
[07:36] <slomo> hi Mirno :)
[07:53] <GazerWork> someone using Muine on breezy ?
[07:55] <LaserJock> GazerWork: I am
[07:56] <GazerWork> LaserJock, when I press play the Muine freeze
[07:56] <GazerWork> LaserJock, runing an strace I get: futex(0x88529b8, FUTEX_WAIT, 2, NULL)
[07:57] <GazerWork> LaserJock, and I must kill the app :S
[07:58] <GazerWork> LaserJock, grrr, I'm so stupid :), My gstreamer is configured to use esd , now is working ...
[08:03] <LaserJock> GazerWork: glad I could help ;-)
[08:03] <GazerWork> LaserJock, :)
[08:18] <Kyral> Okay, people have started requesting completely new packages (Things that haven't ever been in Debian nor Ubuntu) on the Backports Forum
[08:18] <Kyral> I smell Universe Canditate
[08:20] <Kyral> hey daniel how goes UBZ?
[08:31] <dholbach> hi Kyral
[08:31] <dholbach> Kyral: just started a bof session
[08:31] <Kyral> ah I'll shut up then ;P
[08:32] <mindwarp> Greetings.  My name is Steve and I am looking to help out the MOTU.  Anyone have any tasks etc I can help out with?
[08:37] <Amaranth> mindwarp: most people are either sleeping or at Ubuntu Below Zero so it might take awhile to get an answer
[08:37] <Kyral> or studying their asses off for exams
[08:38] <LaserJock> or working on presentations ;-)
[08:38] <mindwarp> I have some time, not a problem
[08:38] <LaserJock> mindwarp: do you have experience making Debian/Ubuntu packages?
[08:39] <mindwarp> LaserJock - I have read all the docs, but if you point me in the direction you need a package for I will give it a go
[08:39] <Kyral> I'd grab a sourceball from one of the repos and inspect it first
[08:39] <Kyral> like see what it looks like etc
[08:40] <LaserJock> mindwarp: well, take a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo
[08:40] <LaserJock> mindwarp: look especially at UniverseCandidates and bugfixing
[08:41] <LaserJock> mindwarp: even UniversePackageWithoutDesktopFile if you are into the mundane ;-)
[08:41] <mindwarp> LaserJock - so if I go and fix a bug in a program, is all that is needed is a patch, or should I repackage it?
[08:42] <LaserJock> mindwarp: right now the best thing to do is make a debdiff and attach it to the bug report or let somebody know here at least
[08:42] <slomo> if someone wants something uploaded and can't find someone to upload ask me ;) i have nothing to do atm
[08:44] <LaserJock> Kyral: where is that?
[08:54] <Kyral> slomo, I may need to request a sync from Sid soon
[08:55] <slomo> Kyral: what package and why? normally everything is autosynced currently... or it needs manual merging/syncing when there are ubuntu specific changes
[08:56] <Kyral> Something in Universe Canditates
[08:56] <Kyral> its in Sid and it compiles/installs clean on my Dapper system
[08:56] <slomo> a NEW package? ok :)
[08:56] <Kyral> Yah
[08:56] <Kyral> crafty
[08:56] <crimsun> if it's in sid already, it shouldn't be a prob
[08:56] <Kyral> Yah
[08:56] <Kyral> Should I comment in Universe Candidates?
[08:57] <crimsun> that would be wise
[08:57] <crimsun> slomo: you're a member of MOTUMedia, correct?
[08:57] <slomo> crimsun: yes
[08:58] <crimsun> slomo: I've had a request to add vlc-plugin-alsa as a Dependency of vlc
[08:58] <Kyral> whoops
[08:58] <crimsun> slomo: what's your opinion?
[08:58] <slomo> Kyral: or better mail elmo to sync it... (hm, what was the policy for syncing be non-motu?)
[08:58] <Kyral> err wait it works
[08:58] <Kyral> I just got caught off guard by the output ;P
[08:58] <slomo> crimsun: i don't know vlc... is it needed for playback? or does it include a oss/esd/whatever plugin by default?
[08:59] <crimsun> slomo: oss is the single default one
[08:59] <crimsun> https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/3678
[08:59] <slomo> ok, can this default be changed to alsa? would be more sane imho... otherwise make it a suggests
[09:00] <ajmitch> Kyral: what needs synced?
[09:00] <Kyral> crafty. Its on the Universe Canditates list and the Sid version compiles/installs fine on Dapper
[09:00] <crimsun> slomo: for the default to be changed, we'd have to make vlc-plugin-alsa a Depends
[09:00] <slomo> oh, hi ajmitch :) how was your flight and everything? :)
[09:01] <ajmitch> ok
[09:01] <Kyral> At least on my system ;P
[09:01] <slomo> crimsun: ok, then let's do this... will alsa used as a default then or does it need the user to do something?
[09:02] <LaserJock> Kyral: I think you can ask elmo for a sync but it is good to get MOTU ok's before. That is what I have done in the past anyway.
[09:02] <mindwarp> so if I make a .desktop file, where do I submit it?
[09:02] <ajmitch> crafty - non-free/games
[09:02] <crimsun> slomo: it'll be used as the default without intervention
[09:02] <ajmitch> with 1 RC bug in debian
[09:02] <Kyral> ajmitch, yah
[09:02] <slomo> crimsun: ok... will you do it or shall i?
[09:02] <Kyral> Oh it does hmm
[09:03] <LaserJock> mindwarp: try https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniversePackageWithoutDesktopFileExampleFiles first
[09:03] <Kyral> Thats why it didn't pick up on me
[09:03] <slomo> mindwarp: prepare a debdiff and upload it somewhere and tell me where it is to look at it ;)
[09:03] <crimsun> slomo: I'll do it with the next upload. There are more patches to apply to our source.
[09:03] <slomo> crimsun: ok :)
[09:03] <LaserJock> mindwarp: can you update the package to include the .desktop file?
[09:03] <Kyral> Its on AMD64 the bug is...
[09:05] <Kyral> what does RC mean again?
[09:05] <mindwarp> LaserJock - yeah can do
[09:05] <LaserJock> mindwarp: then make a debdiff like slomo said and then let him know where to find it
[09:07] <slomo> Kyral: release critical
[09:07] <Kyral> Ah
[09:07] <Kyral> I can't help fix the AMD64 bug....I don't have an AMD64 :P
[09:08] <LaserJock> well, as long as it is just for AMD64 we can ignore it right? ;p
[09:08] <Kyral> no..

[09:12] <LaserJock> so does the automatic sync (MOM or whatever is going to be used) only sync packages that are currently in Ubuntu?
[09:12] <slomo> afaik yes
[09:13] <Kyral> if a package needs to be fixed from Sid (but not in Ubuntu yet) I append "-0ubuntu1" to it right?
[09:13] <LaserJock> Kyral: it's not in Debian?
[09:13] <Kyral> It is
[09:14] <slomo> Kyral: then simply append ubuntu1 to the old version number... i.e. -1ubuntu1
[09:14] <Kyral> but in order for it to compile in Ubuntu, I need to fix a depend issue
[09:14] <Kyral> and upload to REVU right?
[09:14] <slomo> give me the debdiff and i'll take a look at it and upload it then
[09:15] <Kyral> kk
[09:15] <Kyral> time to work :D
[09:15] <Kyral> dch -a right....
[09:15] <slomo> yes
[09:15] <slomo> no
[09:15] <slomo> dch -i -D dapper
[09:16] <slomo> and then correct the version number ;)
[09:16] <Kyral> ty
[09:23] <Kyral> WTF its already in Dapper universe
[09:23] <slomo> Kyral: with the fix?
[09:23] <Kyral> I don't think so
[09:23] <Kyral> checkout package mixxx
[09:24] <slomo> ok, then give me a debdiff ;)
[09:24] <Kyral> Okay, packages.ubuntu.com says its NOT there
[09:25] <crimsun> it hasn't been accepted from NEW yet
[09:25] <Kyral> but when I apt-get source it it comes from Dapper repos, even though I have sid enabled
[09:25] <Kyral> ah
[09:25] <Kyral> I was confused for a sec
[09:25] <crimsun> mixxx |    1.4.2-1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com dapper/universe Sources
[09:25] <Kyral> so go ahead and fix it?
[09:25] <slomo> yes
[09:31] <Kyral> thanks for pointing that out. I'm not used to this "syncing" comcept (what gets synced and what doesn't)
[09:32] <slomo> you mean what gets synced automatically?
[09:32] <Kyral> yah
[09:33] <slomo> at least everything we already have from debian ;) when there were no changes or only rebuilds it will get synced automatically, when there were changes MoM will take it, make a bugreport and gives you a machine-generated merged version of the package
[09:34] <slomo> don't know about stuff which is in debian but not in ubuntu...
[09:34] <slomo> but seems like this gets synced too
[09:34] <Kyral> Then why did the source for mixxx get synced but not the source for crafty?
[09:35] <LaserJock> did somebody do a manual sync?
[09:35] <slomo> very good question... probably mixx was a manual sync?
[09:36] <farruinn> is buzilla still being used for main and restricted?
[09:37] <Kyral> hmm I have a question on the Users ML about security updates to Universe, Multiverse, and Backports and I'm not sure on how to answer
[09:37] <slomo> what question?
[09:37] <Kyral> about the thingy in the default Sources.list about "Also, please note that software
[09:37] <Kyral> in universe WILL NOT receive any review or updates from the Ubuntu
[09:37] <Kyral> security team."
[09:38] <slomo> that means, that it's not garantued that universe package will get security fixes
[09:38] <slomo> but when someone wants to make a fixed version, fine
[09:44] <Kyral> annnnd its segfaulting
[09:48] <Kyral> oh well, slomo do you want the debdiff anyway?
[09:49] <slomo> Kyral: sure... why not?
[09:49] <Kyral> It segfaults ;P
[09:49] <LaserJock> minor issues ;-)
[09:49] <slomo> that's bad :P
[09:49] <slomo> then i don't want it ;)
[09:49] <Kyral> Yah
[09:49] <slomo> fix the segfault and i'm happy :)
[09:49] <slomo> did it segfault before?
[09:49] <Kyral> But I have no clue why its segfaulting
[09:49] <Kyral> it didn't install before
[09:50] <slomo> and i have no clue what this package is good for =) hmm, do you have some experience with gdb, etc?
[09:50] <Kyral> I ran gdb
[09:50] <Kyral> no debugging symbols
[09:50] <Kyral> I'll try to nab the binary from Debian and see what happens
[09:51] <Kyral> if that segfaults as well I'll file a bug with Debian
[09:52] <slomo> could be a ubuntu specific problem even if the debian version does the same... maybe some used library has problems
[09:53] <Kyral> here is the problem
[09:53] <Kyral> it depends on libjack0.100 but dapper has libjack0.80
[09:53] <LaserJock> Kyral: doesn't segfaul for me in sid
[09:53] <Kyral> LaserJock, thats because Sid has libjack100
[09:54] <slomo> Kyral: does it work with the old libjack?
[09:54] <Kyral> Since its segfaulting I'd say no ;P
[09:54] <slomo> why do you think this is the problem?
[09:55] <Kyral> Because when I downloaded the deb from Sid, it wouldn't install due to a depend on libjack0.100
[09:56] <Kyral> however when I compiled it, it took "libjack" as avirtual package and used libjack0.80
[09:56] <crimsun> yes, we'll have a mini-transition for JACK
[09:56] <slomo> that's because the sid package was linked with libjack0.100... but that is doesn't tell us that the segfault is caused by libjack
[09:56] <crimsun> but until jack 0.100 is merged into main, we can't do anything
[09:56] <tseng> hi slomo
[09:56] <tseng> crimsun
[09:56] <crimsun> hi tseng
[09:56] <slomo> hi tseng
[09:57] <Kyral> slomo its the only thing I can think of. LaserJock says it works with his Sid
[09:57] <Kyral> and it doesn't work when compiled with Dapper using LibJack0.100
[09:57] <Kyral> only thign I changed was its depend on xlibmesa-gl-dev and xlibmesa-glu-dev, which are replaced by x11proto-gl-dev
[09:57] <tseng> slomo: i tested the new banshee
[09:58] <tseng> slomo: it is nice
[09:58] <slomo> tseng: yes, i know :) i'm running it too
[09:58] <slomo> tseng: but i'm waiting for new monodoc to built the docs of ipod-sharp ;)
[09:58] <tseng> and monodoc is waiting on xsp
[09:58] <slomo> yes... everything is waiting ;)
[09:59] <slomo> Kyral: well... what tells you it's not an error in libc for example?
[09:59] <Kyral> nope
[09:59] <Kyral> it compiles fine
[09:59] <Kyral> and when I run it from command line just "Segmentation Fault"
[10:01] <Kyral> I'll hit hit with debbuild and review the output
[10:01] <slomo> yes but that's no indication that the problem is libjack
[10:02] <Kyral> slomo I don't know what the problem. I'm just using deduction
[10:02] <slomo> hehe
[10:03] <\sh> good late afternoon guys :)
[10:03] <Kyral> hey \sh
[10:03] <slomo> Kyral: maybe strace / ltrace it
[10:03] <slomo> hi \sh :)
[10:04] <Kyral> slomo, once its done recompiling I will ;P
[10:04] <\sh> slomo: how is it in germany? :)
[10:05] <slomo> \sh: boring and rainy... so nothing changed =)
[10:05] <\sh> slomo: i thought it was sunny and warm?
[10:06] <slomo> \sh: wasn't in mannheim... where i was until this afternoon ;) i don't know how the weather is here... it was already dark when i arrived here ;) at least it doesn't rain
[10:10] <Kyral> Bingo its libjack-0.100
[10:11] <Kyral> strace confirmed it
[10:11] <slomo> Kyral: fine... good guess before then :)
[10:11] <Kyral> ty
[10:12] <Kyral> what should I do with it now then...
[10:12] <slomo> depends on the actual problem
[10:12] <slomo> paste it somewhere :)
[10:14] <Kyral> http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/3893
[10:15] <slomo> uh?
[10:15] <Kyral> look at the end ;P
[10:15] <slomo> that's interesting
[10:15] <slomo> i'll take a look at that package
[10:15] <Kyral> kk
[10:16] <slomo> what was the name? ;)
[10:16] <Kyral> mixxx
[10:16] <Kyral> if you use it as it in dapper-sources you'll need to fix the depend problem on xlibmesa-gl-dev
[10:17] <mindwarp> so if I am working on fixing .desktop files, should I be doing it for dapper or breezy?
[10:18] <LaserJock> mindwarp: dapper
[10:19] <mindwarp> ok so no .desktops will be fixed for breezy?
[10:19] <tseng> no
[10:19] <slomo> hm, maybe give me your debdiff... i'll work based on that so you'll be mentioned in the changelog ;)
[10:19] <LaserJock> no the only things going into breezy are security fixes  I believe
[10:19] <slomo> Kyral
[10:19] <Kyral> email?
[10:19] <slomo> Kyral<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[10:20] <slomo> LaserJock: only "critical" stuff... may it be security fixes or a program wiping your harddisk or simply not running ;)
[10:21] <LaserJock> slomo: right, sorry that is what I meant to say
[10:21] <slomo> LaserJock: no need to be sorry :P
[10:21] <Kyral> slomo, sent
[10:21] <slomo> Kyral: ok :)
[10:21] <LaserJock> slomo: well i wasn't clear enough
[10:22] <Kyral> someone remind me to write an XChat-Plugin to integrate with Evolution
[10:22] <slomo> Kyral?! xchat and evolution? ;) how does this go together?
[10:22] <Kyral> Just so I would be able to right click on an email addy and have the option to compose mail to the addy in Evolution ;P
[10:23] <slomo> you can already do that
[10:23] <slomo> settings/advanced/url-handling
[10:23] <Kyral> I can? How? Sure ain't showing up in my menu
[10:23] <Kyral> Might I suggest this be enabled by default?
[10:24] <slomo> sure... fill a bugreport and maybe add a debdiff to that :) i can't do anything for main packages
[10:24] <Kyral> I'll file a bug report, but I don't know how to control evolution remotely
[10:27] <slomo> Kyral: evolution<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[10:27] <slomo> Kyral: evolution mailto<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[10:27] <Kyral> okay okay okay
[10:27] <slomo> argh
[10:27] <slomo> without the space ;)
[10:28] <Kyral> I'll do it later ;P
[10:28] <Kyral> I'd have to modify the XChat package to do that right?
[10:28] <slomo> yes
[10:28] <Kyral> Yah I'll leave that to Main Maintainers (No pun intended)
[10:30] <slomo> np
[10:30] <Kyral> hmm, Launchpad or Bugzilla....
[10:30] <slomo> hmm, LP probably
[10:30] <Kyral> cool
[10:31] <slomo> but i'm not sure ;)
[10:31] <Kyral> I'll file it then immeadiatly mark it Wishlist
[10:34] <Kyral> ain't that critical ;P
[10:35] <Kyral> gah the binary package isn't in FP
[10:35] <Kyral> err LP ;P
[10:35] <slomo> only sourcepackages are
[10:35] <Kyral> ah
[10:35] <Kyral> I'm used to smashing bugs, not filing them ;P
[10:39] <Kyral> filed and wishlisted
[10:43] <mindwarp> does debhelper take care of moving the .desktop file automagically, or do I need to do it manually in the rules file?
[10:44] <slomo> manually
[10:45] <Kyral> Anyone know what the package name of Add Remove Programs is?
[10:45] <Kyral> Some guy on the ABT Forum accidently nuked it and wants it back..and I can't find it
[10:45] <Amaranth> gnome-app-install
[10:45] <Kyral> ty
[10:46] <Amaranth> reinstalling ubuntu-desktop would get the package back
[10:46] <Amaranth> or did it actually manually delete the files?
[10:46] <Kyral> Its more like he installed KDE then uninstalled it
[10:46] <Kyral> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=84683
[10:48] <slomo> Kyral: paste the output of ldd `which mixxx` somewhere please :)
[10:48] <Kyral> I removed it :P
[10:49] <Kyral> /usr/bin/mixxx
[10:50] <slomo> note the ldd before it :P
[10:51] <Kyral> why is it giving me a different strace now....ohhhh....I forgot to reinstall the ubuntu data pack. Still Segfaults
[10:51] <slomo> yes but give me the output of ldd please ;)
[10:52] <Kyral> http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/3897
[10:55] <slomo> and strace still gives you the missing libjack 0.100?
[10:55] <Kyral> nope. I made a mistake and still had the Debian Data pack installed when I made that trace *embarrassed*
[10:56] <slomo> oh
[10:56] <slomo> what does it give you now?
[10:56] <slomo> (i don't want to install qt :P )
[10:57] <Kyral> http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/3898
[10:58] <slomo> ok, nothing easy without gdb
[10:59] <Kyral> you want me to recompile it with debug symbols and give you the output from gdb?
[10:59] <slomo> you should get a fairly useful backtrace with gdb without debug symbol
[10:59] <slomo> s
[11:02] <Kyral> http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/3899
[11:02] <Kyral> backtrace ;P
[11:02] <slomo> distributed debugging ;)
[11:02] <Kyral> eh?
[11:03] <slomo> nm... anyway, that backtrace is NOT useful :P
[11:04] <Kyral> lol
[11:04] <Kyral> sorry
[11:04] <slomo> isn't your fault :)
[11:04] <slomo> but why is this program using opengl? what does it do? ;)
[11:04] <Kyral> Its a music mixing program from the sound of it
[11:05] <Kyral> a "Digital DJ System"
[11:05] <Kyral> now i have to remember how to compile a deb with Debug symbols
[11:05] <slomo> ok, i actually have no idea ;)
[11:05] <slomo> that's not symbol-related
[11:05] <Amaranth> it's an env variable
[11:05] <slomo> you won't get a better backtrace with debugging symbols
[11:06] <slomo> there's something really wrong there
[11:06] <Amaranth> stack corruption?
[11:06] <Kyral> x11proto-gl-dev is a compatiable replacement to the xlibmesa dev packs right?
[11:06] <slomo> looks like it
[11:07] <slomo> Kyral: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUGLUTransition
[11:08] <Kyral> hmm
[11:09] <Kyral> I'll try rebuilding with those
[11:12] <mindwarp> if I alter a .deb, what is the format of the new package.diff.gz? just diff between the 2 dirs gzipped?
[11:14] <slomo> yes
[11:17] <Kyral> wham bam same problem
[11:18] <Kyral> I really wanna mark this as FTBFS
[11:21] <mindwarp> ftbfs?
[11:21] <Kyral> Failure To Build(an installable package) From Source
[11:26] <Kyral> slomo, can you agree with me that this package is ****ed up?
[11:27] <slomo> Kyral: which? mixxx?
[11:27] <Kyral> yah
[11:27] <slomo> yes
[11:27] <slomo> probably
[11:27] <Kyral> ty
[11:27] <slomo> either mixxx or one of it dependencies
[11:27] <Kyral> Someone put it on the FTBFS list, I need to go study
[11:28] <slomo> well...
[11:28] <slomo> builds now ;)
[11:28] <Kyral> It builds, but no exec
[11:28] <Kyral> ain't that what a FTBFS is?
[11:28] <slomo> no
[11:29] <Kyral> oh whoops X_X
[11:29] <slomo> FTBFS is when it can't be build from source
[11:29] <slomo> this can be build... but it doesn't work
[11:29] <Kyral> so its just "RFU"
[11:29] <slomo> ?
[11:29] <Kyral> Royally ****ed Up ;P
[11:30] <slomo> hehe
[11:42] <mindwarp> how to I change the version # of the package I am fixing, I am using  pbuilder build, I changed the version in the changelog and dsc file
[11:42] <mindwarp> but when the package builds it is still named the previous version
[11:42] <slomo> mindwarp: changelog
[11:44] <mindwarp> I edited the debian/changelog file
[11:45] <slomo> and you added a new entry at the top with the new version number?
[11:45] <mindwarp> yes, is it sensitive to the types of tabs used (I used spaces instead)?
[11:47] <slomo> yes... spaces are correct
[11:47] <slomo> when you've done something wrong with that dpkg-parsechangelog would have told you
[11:49] <mindwarp> ok for reference too, is the only file I need to change the changelog?
[11:49] <mindwarp> or was I right in editing the dsc?
[11:49] <slomo> the dsc is creating automatically
[11:49] <mindwarp> gotcha
[11:49] <mindwarp> just when I use pbuilder I must specify a dsc
[11:50] <slomo> you only change stuff in the sourcetree and run debuild to create dsc, diff.gz and tar.gz
[11:51] <farruinn> does debuild do the same thing as dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -S?
[11:57] <slomo> farruinn: yes... use whatever you like ;)
[11:57] <slomo> farruinn: i use dpkg-buildpackage too... but many people seem to prefer debuild
[11:57] <farruinn> it's less typing
[11:58] <farruinn> the reading that I've done though has given examples with dpkg-buildpackage though


[11:45] <daker> stats just want to tell you that there is an ubuntu web font used in askubuntu
[11:45] <AlanBell> where is it hosted?
[11:51] <daker> AlanBell: http://sstatic.net/askubuntu/all.css?v=7710c2ff227d
[11:51] <daker> Ctrl+F ubuntu
[11:52] <AlanBell> interesting stuff
[11:59] <AlanBell> just updated bug 655305 with that info
[11:59] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 655305 in ubuntu-font-family "font.ubuntu.com needs the font hosted for web embedding (affects: 2) (heat: 37)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/655305
[12:01] <AlanBell> interesting that they are referencing "Ubuntu Mono","Ubuntu Beta Mono A"
[12:06] <daker> ya
[12:13] <AlanBell> newz2000: what is the latest on the wiki update? any of my branches going to make it in tomorrow?
[12:14] <AlanBell> personally I would be a lot more comfortable updating the theme that is there but not making it default quite yet
[12:14] <AlanBell> there are still lots of things that don't look great under the light theme, such as the info pages with the revision history etc
[12:15] <AlanBell> ideally there should be a trunk branch for the code in the Ubuntu-website project rather than your +junk area
[12:15] <AlanBell> I don't think I can do a merge request to your branch, but I attached my branch to all the bugs I worked on
[13:11] <AlanBell> newz2000: what did you think of my suggestion to add an accessible theme to the wiki (non-default, but selectable in preferences)
[14:34] <newz2000> AlanBell: Sorry, didn't catch your suggestion so didn't consider it yet, sounds reasonable
[14:34] <AlanBell> it was burried in my long rambling email
[14:35] <newz2000> AlanBell: will you be around a couple min? I've got to reboot real quick
[14:35] <AlanBell> sure
[14:35] <AlanBell> http://moinmo.in/ThemeMarket/SimpleMente
[15:10] <AlanBell> newz2000: back?
[15:10] <newz2000> AlanBell: yes, sorry. Got mobbed when I rebooted
[15:10] <AlanBell> hah
[15:11] <newz2000> AlanBell: ive me 90 seconds
[15:13] <newz2000> hey AlanBell
[15:13] <newz2000> Yes, today I will try to package all the work done on the wiki together
[15:13] <newz2000> I've not looked over your patches but I did look at your demo site
[15:13] <newz2000> Thanks for the work you did, how happy are you with the rsults?
[15:16] <AlanBell> pretty happy
[15:17] <AlanBell> the dots at the top I am not happy with right now
[15:17] <AlanBell> they were an experiment which I think failed :)
[15:17] <newz2000> Can you give me a link to your demo site? (if it is still up)
[15:17] <AlanBell> http://libertus.co.uk:8080 can you see that?
[15:19] <newz2000> AlanBell: yep
[15:19] <AlanBell> good, my laptop picked up the same IP as before then :)
[15:19] <newz2000> wow, that's amazing
[15:20] <AlanBell> I am going to back out the bigger dots at the top, don't like them so much
[15:20] <newz2000> yeah, I think we've deviated a bit radically from the designer's intent with the background image and the dots
[15:20] <AlanBell> I was trying to get some of the popular bits from the askubuntu.com site in
[15:21] <AlanBell> the theory was to have a run of dark dots in a line across, which continues into light dots in the margins
[15:22] <newz2000> AlanBell: are you pushing your changes into lp?
[15:22]  * newz2000 has not had a chance to look yet
[15:22] <newz2000> I've not seen an merge proposal yet though
[15:22] <AlanBell> can I do that to your branch?
[15:23] <AlanBell> or does it have to be in ubuntu-website project first?
[15:23] <newz2000> AlanBell: push them up to LP somewhere and then submit it as a merge proposal (through the web interface)
[15:23] <AlanBell> ok, it is on LP, I will just fix the nasty dots and do the merge proposal
[15:23] <newz2000> thanks a bunch for your help Alan, I'll be merging this stuff in today
[15:25] <newz2000> AlanBell: oh, don't be disapointed, but I'll probably reject your MP and cherry pick some parts out of it.
[15:25] <newz2000> I will use your work but probably not the whole patch
[15:25] <newz2000> I don't want you to think I'm ungrateful, I'm extraordinarily grateful
[15:26] <AlanBell> thats fine
[15:26] <AlanBell> have a look now
[15:26] <newz2000> great
[15:28] <AlanBell> lp:~alanbell/ubuntu-website/light-moin-theme is where it is at
[15:29] <AlanBell> where was your branch?
[15:32] <AlanBell> This branch is not mergeable into lp:~newz/+junk/light-wiki.
[15:34] <newz2000> AlanBell: ok, I'll just poke at that
[15:36] <AlanBell> http://moinmo.in/ThemeMarket/SimpleMente is the accessible theme, quite plain but screenreader friendly
[15:37] <AlanBell> 13:10 < akgraner> I like the headers in Purple oops I mean aubergine and the links in orange though
[15:37] <AlanBell> 13:10 < akgraner> Love it! Love it! Love it!! - did I mention I love that part
[15:46] <newz2000> AlanBell: I'll look at it
[15:47] <newz2000> She'll be disapointed about the aubergine
[15:47] <newz2000> It's not part of the Ubuntu web branding
[15:47]  * newz2000 tries to take the guidelines very seriously
[15:51] <AlanBell> yeah, read all them :)
[15:51] <newz2000> There's a funny story behind this
[15:51] <newz2000> When the brand guidelines came out, they said that "orange = Ubuntu, aubergine = Canonical"
[15:51] <newz2000> And then Lucid shipped with a purple desktop wallpaper. :-)
[15:51] <newz2000> Got everyone really confused.
[15:51] <AlanBell> actually no, they said aubergine=commercial
[15:52] <newz2000> ah, right
[15:52] <AlanBell> then they split "enterprise" and "developer" with different dot sizes and pitches
[15:52] <newz2000> yeah, clever.
[15:52] <AlanBell> and there are 5 different aubergines
[15:53] <AlanBell> in theory in at least one of the design documents (or it might have been a draft I was reviewing) Canonical should be aubergine with orange as an accent colour and Ubuntu should be orange with Aubergine as an accent colour
[15:54] <AlanBell> there were pie charts for the quantities to use
[15:56] <AlanBell> the voice slider, thats the one
[15:56] <newz2000> ok, you may have gotten into them more than I have. :-)
[15:57] <AlanBell> yeah, but I tend to take the captain Jack Sparrow approach to such things
[15:57] <AlanBell> more of a guideline than an actual law :)
[15:59] <AlanBell> http://design.canonical.com/brand/5.%20Ubuntu%20colour%20palettes%20and%20colour%20landscape.pdf found the pie charts
[16:00] <newz2000> oh yeah, forgot about those
[16:01] <AlanBell> some things like cool grey as a background are nice in theory, but then I asked some low vision users in #ubuntu-accessibility to have a look at it, then I made the text darker and the background lighter until they said it stopped looking fuzzy and hard to read
[16:02] <newz2000> yeah, I've thought that about the server pages especially
[16:03] <AlanBell> -accessibility is a great channel to idle in, you can always post a link to a development site and ask for feedback on it either in terms of low vision or screen reader use
[16:08] <newz2000> good tip
[16:21] <AlanBell> newz2000: there are a whole heap of 404 errors for missing images in /assets/ on my box, I kind of assumed that was because I set it up wrong
[16:21] <newz2000> Hm...
[16:21] <newz2000> You probably don't have all the files actually
[16:21] <AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/511730/
[16:22] <AlanBell> yeah, I am not too bothered about them, but they probably should be fixed one way or another for deployment
[16:24] <AlanBell> and web hosting of the font is comming very soon according to sabdfl this morning Bug #655305
[16:24] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 655305 in ubuntu-font-family "font.ubuntu.com needs the font hosted for web embedding (affects: 2) (heat: 37)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/655305


[15:30] <ejat> elo anybody home ?
[15:30]  * ejat pokes govatent
[15:30]  * ejat pokes angch
[15:31] <ejat> hi kInOzAwA
[15:34] <govatent> ejat, HEY!
[15:35] <ejat> how r u bro ?
[15:35] <govatent> I'm doing good. How about you?
[15:35] <ejat> just come back home from office
[15:36] <govatent> long day?
[15:36] <ejat> yeah ...
[15:36] <ejat> how bout u ?
[15:37] <govatent> I'm at my office.
[15:37] <ejat> owh .. bz with works ?
[15:37] <govatent> was a fairly busy morning but it's going slow now
[15:52] <ejat> owh okie ..
[15:52] <ejat> sorry to disturb u
[15:55] <govatent> you are not. it's fine
[15:55] <govatent> it's slow now


[00:20] <aisrael> Any recent packaging change with Juju 2 in xenial? I just updated to beta 15 and now the (symlink?) from /usr/bin/juju to /usr/bin/juju-2.0 is gone
[00:23] <marcoceppi> aisrael: yeah, that's been gone for a while
[00:24] <marcoceppi> aisrael: you can do the following to add it back
[00:24] <marcoceppi> aisrael: it's actually juju1 that breaks it up
[00:24] <marcoceppi> sudo update-alternatives --install /usr/bin/juju juju /usr/bin/juju-2.0 30
[00:25] <marcoceppi> then sudo update-alternatives --config juju
[00:27] <marcoceppi> aisrael: ^^
[00:29] <aisrael> marcoceppi: Huh. I remember when juju-1 was changed. I thought I'd installed this vm after that, though
[00:36] <marcoceppi> aisrael: 1.25.6 was released
[00:36] <marcoceppi> which reset that, probably
[00:36] <aisrael> Aha, that'd be the culprit!
[01:07] <aisrael> marcoceppi: when you have a chance, could you kill any instances owned by aisrael? Seems I've hit my quota
[01:08] <marcoceppi> aisrael: ehhhhh, it's not easy to find instances by you
[01:08] <marcoceppi> aisrael: what region
[01:08] <aisrael> oh. us-east-1. That's the issue, isn't it?
[01:08] <marcoceppi> aisrael: not nessisarily
[01:09]  * marcoceppi helps
[01:09] <marcoceppi> aisrael: seems there's a 20 instance cap on us-east-1
[01:09] <marcoceppi> which is not right
[01:10]  * marcoceppi contacts amazon _again_
[01:10] <aisrael> marcoceppi: Weird. us-west-2 is working, fwiw
[01:10] <marcoceppi> yeah
[01:10]  * marcoceppi frees up more resources
[01:11] <marcoceppi> I may have to start actualy reaping
[01:11] <marcoceppi> lots of activity, which is awesome
[01:12] <aisrael> Yeah, that's a good problem to have
[01:15] <marcoceppi> us-east-1 might be boned, everything there is legit, us-west-2 seems to have way more capacitt, despite having a butt load of instances running
[01:17] <aisrael> is it a hard resource cap set by amazon?
[01:18] <marcoceppi> yeah, it's typicall 20 instances per region
[01:18] <marcoceppi> I've contacted them like 12 times about increasing
[01:18] <marcoceppi> us-west-2 got an increase
[01:18] <marcoceppi> but none else did for whatever reason
[01:37] <aisrael> This is working well enough for my mini charm school, so I'm off for the night. Have a good one!
[02:46] <thumper> marcoceppi: still hanging around?
[02:46] <thumper> or lazyPower
[02:46] <marcoceppi> thumper: I am
[02:46] <thumper> sweet
[02:46] <thumper> for the python library that (most) charms use
[02:46] <thumper> when you call hook tools
[02:47] <thumper> are you explicit about format?
[02:47] <thumper> and if so, which?
[02:47] <marcoceppi> yes, json
[02:47] <thumper> awesome
[02:47] <thumper> I'm just about to land a change that changes the default from smart to yaml, and remove smart
[02:47] <thumper> which will make zero difference if you say "json"
[02:48] <thumper> existing behaviour will be kept if you use the feature flag "smart-formatters"
[02:48] <thumper> but I'm thinking most charms use the charm tools code
[02:48] <marcoceppi> thumper: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~charm-helpers/charm-helpers/devel/view/head:/charmhelpers/core/hookenv.py#L330
[02:48] <marcoceppi> thumper: odds are there will be like 2 charms this affect
[02:49] <marcoceppi> thumper: and those charms have bigger problems
[02:49] <thumper> :)
[07:41] <kjackal> Hello Juju World!
[12:27] <jcastro> magicaltrout: around today?
[13:43] <Anita_> Hi Matt
[13:43] <mbruzek> Hello
[13:44] <Anita_> This is regarding IBM-WXS design doc
[13:44] <Anita_> Did you get a chance to go through the mail?
[13:44] <mbruzek> Not yet this morning I just got in.
[13:44] <mbruzek> Let me read it
[13:44] <Anita_> Ok
[13:47] <mbruzek> Anita_: OK I am up to speed.
[13:47] <mbruzek> Anita_: What is your question?
[13:48] <Anita_> The third charm of ibm-wxs i.e ibm-wxs-client can be deployed in two topologies
[13:49] <Anita_> one is standard and another is mixed. In case of standard topology, ibm-wxs-client is a standalone/normal charm. in case of mixed topology, ibm-wxs-client is subordinate charm
[13:50] <Anita_> in the metadata. yaml, subordinate charm will be having either true or false.
[13:51] <Anita_> So thought of splitting ibm-wxs-charm as two charm. for standard : ibm-wxs-client ( not a subordinate one) and for Mixed topology charm ibm-wxs-was-client
[13:52] <Anita_> ibm-wxs-was-client is a subordinate charm.
[13:52] <Anita_> Is this approach correct?
[13:58] <mbruzek> Anita_: You would have to name the subordinate charm something different than the "regular" charm. At that point you will have a different layer for the two, but what you are telling me is the IBM WXS application software would be the same between those two charms?
[14:00] <Anita_> In both topologies, wxs client charm function is same. In case of standard, wxs-client can be used through command-line. Where as in case of Mixed, users are allowed to use Websphere Console UI to use wxs-client
[14:01] <Anita_> IBM WXS Software packages are different for different topologies
[14:01] <mbruzek> Anita_: What is the reason that the charm needs to be a subordinate in the first place? does the WXS software need to run on the WAS server? Or are there simply configuration differences between the two scenarios?
[14:02] <mbruzek> Anita_: OK I see you answered my quest in the previous statement
[14:03] <Anita_> In case of sub-ordinate charm, WAS ND will deployed. The installation path will be exposed by WAS ND. Under the same installation path, WXS Client needs to be installed
[14:05] <mbruzek> Anita_: The approach you have outlined seems OK then. It seems like more work for you (the author) to have 2 charms and potentially more confusing for the user to know which ibm-wxs charm they want to deploy and how to correctly relate them in the situation they want.
[14:06] <mbruzek> Anita_: The README for each charm would have to describe the situation where this charm would be used, and how it is different than the closely related one.
[14:06] <Anita_> is there any other method to specify in the metadata.yaml to have both subordinate and non-subordinate charm, depending on user's topology option?
[14:07] <mbruzek> Anita_: No not that I know of.  I brainstormed about this a little bit after reading your email. I came up with 2 possible options.
[14:08] <Anita_> can you please let us know?
[14:09] <mbruzek> Option 1) You make the charm a subordinate only, and relate it to ibm-was-nd (code would have to detect if nd was installed and install appropriately), and in the case where it is client only relate the subordinate to a ubuntu charm, which is the most simple non-subordinate charm.
[14:11] <mbruzek> Option 2) Re-evaluate the requirement of subordinate. Make the ibm-wxs-client a non-subordinate and see if you can pass all the software/information over relations, so the ibm-wxs-client -> ibm-was-nd does everything it needs to the ibm-was-nd charm, with the absence of the relation it simply sets up as a stand alone line.
[14:13] <mbruzek> Anita_: However if the path is clearer to make a subordinate and non-subordinate charm that is also a valid option. But the README on both charms would have to be very clear about what situation to use the different charms.
[14:15] <Anita_> In case of both options, user's options are to be taken?
[14:16] <mbruzek> Anita_: I don't understand the question. Can you rephrase?
[14:19] <Anita_> Option 1) I understood, But Option 2) I could not get. In case of Option 2) - If its a non-subordinate charm and user selects "Standard Topology", it will be normal charm. But if user selects Mixed Topology, ibm-was-nd will pass the informations to ibm-wxs-client and then ibm-wxs-client will proceed?
[14:19] <Anita_> But in case of Mixed topology, ibm-wxs-client needs was-nd to be installed on the same machine.
[14:24] <mbruzek> Anita_: Right. In the case of Option 2) the ibm-wxs-client would not be a subordinate and you transfer the software to the ibm-was-nd server. It *can* be done but may be very complicated
[14:26] <Anita_> Hmm Option 1 will be a better Option.
[14:27] <Anita_> In case of Option 1 I have a query.
[14:30] <Anita_> Option 1- subordinate charm. If user selects standard topology, then user will be having a simple ubuntu charm and add-relation with ibm-wxs-charm. If user selects Mixed Topology, user has to deploy ibm-was-nd-dm charm and ibm-wxs-client charm and have to do add-relation between ibm-was-nd-dm and ibm-wxs-client. Am I correct?
[14:35] <mbruzek> Anita_: Yes that is correct. The code would have to detect if was-nd was installed on the host system, and that code should not be too hard.
[14:38] <Anita_> Ok. Actually currently I have implemented partially ibm-wxs-client on WAS-ND. after add-relation between ibm-wxs-client and was-nd-dm, was-nd-dm is exposing the installation path, user name, password and profileName. Those informations are being used by ibm-wxs-client to install WXS Client.
[14:39] <Anita_> Is this approach correct?
[14:48] <Anita_> ibm-wxs-client needs to be installed under the same installation path of was-nd-dm. installation path, user name, password and profileName are configurable for was-nd-dm charm
[14:49] <mbruzek> Anita_: That looks correct. For the connection to ibm-was-nd-dm you should create a relation that exchanges that information.
[14:51] <Anita_> While relation will be departed, wxs needs to be uninstalled from was-nd-dm. But once relation departed, wxs client will not have those above informations. So is it better to store those informations in a file and use those for uninstallation?
[14:54] <Anita_> Actually Installation path and profile name can be extracted from was utility files. But admin and password needs to stop the running process and uninstall wxs client
[14:58] <mbruzek> Anita_: Breaking a relation has two parts. *-relation-departed and *-relation-broken you should be able to get the values from the relation in the first one *-relation-departed, if not the ibm-wxs-client should know the value from the last *-relation-changed event and can store that in a key value store that is provided
[15:00] <Anita_> mbruzek_:Ok
[15:02] <Anita_> mbruzek_:The latest design doc sent was having changes of split charms for wxs client. Will revert to the earlier design.
[15:03] <mbruzek> Anita_: OK good luck and if you encounter implementation problems let me know.
[15:03] <Anita_> mbuzek_:Thanks a Lot for clarifying all the doubts and for your time.
[15:03] <mbruzek> you are welcome, have a good night.
[15:04] <Anita_> mbruzek_: Will let you know if i will have any problem while implementing.
[15:04] <Anita_> mbuzek_:Thanks
[16:23] <bleepbloop> Any ideas why trying to import a file that was exported from juju would throw a `unmarshal errors: line 1: cannot unmarshal !!str `xenial` into charm.legacyBundleData`
[17:10] <beisner> marcoceppi, <3 the requirements of requirements dance:  https://github.com/juju/charm-tools/issues/246    thoughts?
[17:11] <mayurisapre> hi all.. i can have subordinate charm with global scope right?
[17:11] <marcoceppi> beisner: wtf
[17:12] <marcoceppi> mayurisapre: it will need a scope: container to define where it deploys to, but scope: global is implicit for all othe rrelations
[17:15] <mayurisapre> so what i want is .. subordinate charm should access to some processes in principle charm.. at the same time i dont want my subordinate charm to be deployed on each unit of principle charm..
[17:15] <mayurisapre> what is the way to achieve this?
[17:18] <marcoceppi> mayurisapre: you can't have both, if you need access to a process on the running machine, but don't want the charm on that machine there's no way to rectify those two properties
[17:18] <marcoceppi> mayurisapre: could you elaborate your usecase more?
[17:28] <bwallis> sorry I couldn't find documentation on this anywhere, but is there any way to place the juju controller inside the default model?
[17:29] <bwallis> it used to happen by default in older releases
[17:29] <marcoceppi> bwallis: any reason why you'd want to?
[17:29] <marcoceppi> bwallis: well, the controller was the only model
[17:29] <bwallis> yea, it burns a machine
[17:29] <bwallis> i don't have any low powered compute, and don't want to run it virtual
[17:29] <marcoceppi> bwallis: if you want to put stuff with the controller, you can `juju switch admin`
[17:29] <bwallis> i tried that, but it seems the juju-gui doesn't place nicely
[17:29] <bwallis> play*
[17:29] <marcoceppi> since admin is the model where the controller lives
[17:30] <marcoceppi> bwallis: juju-gui comes out of the box now
[17:30] <bwallis> with the controller model
[17:30] <marcoceppi> bwallis: `juju gui`
[17:30] <bwallis> let me try bootstrap again
[17:30] <marcoceppi> (everyone kept deploying --to 0, so we decided to do it for you)
[17:30] <bwallis> yea :)
[17:30] <bwallis> that part is OK, it just doesn't seem to work well with the controller model
[17:30] <bwallis> or maybe my juju gui was just broken
[17:31] <bwallis> i'm bootstrapping right now, so will try again
[17:31] <marcoceppi> bwallis: well the juju-gui charm is no longer needed for 2.0
[17:31] <marcoceppi> which is why it was probably breaking
[17:31] <bwallis> so, don't deploy it then? because yea i did last time
[17:31] <bwallis> i can see in the logs it is installing, almost finished
[17:31] <bwallis> so i'll give it a whirl
[17:32] <marcoceppi> bwallis: just type `juju gui --show-credentials`
[17:32] <bwallis> yea, when i connected to the GUI last time, no models were available at all
[17:32] <bwallis> the usual model drop down was missing
[17:32] <bwallis> i don't actually use the GUI for anything anyway, but want to show it off during a demo
[17:33] <bwallis> so it's not a massive problem for me
[17:35] <marcoceppi> bwallis: yeah, there was sometime around beta12-14 that the gui broke becaues of API changes
[17:35] <bwallis> yea, I think it was beta13 I was on
[17:35] <marcoceppi> bwallis: those should all be fixed now so long as you're on beta15
[17:36] <bwallis> so bootstrap is finished, it says it installed the GUI, but I can't see any processes using tcp 80 or 443
[17:36] <bwallis> on the controller
[17:36] <bwallis> this is was maas rc4 and juju beta15
[17:37] <bwallis> with*
[17:37] <marcoceppi> bwallis: just type `juju gui --show-credentials`
[17:37] <marcoceppi> gui runs on a different port
[17:37] <marcoceppi> it's built onto the API server
[17:37] <bwallis> oooooh
[17:37] <bwallis> you're absolutely right, port 17070
[17:37] <bwallis> let me try
[17:39] <bwallis> @marcoceppi: works! thanks!
[17:48] <marcoceppi> bwallis: cheers!
[17:53] <cholcombe> coreycb, so i ran debconf-get-selections on openattic.  I see a bunch of stuff in there. Do all debconf questions have default answers?
[17:53] <coreycb> cholcombe, I'm not really sure
[17:53] <cholcombe> ok
[17:54] <coreycb> cholcombe, if not then the charm would have to configure things I suppose
[17:55] <coreycb> cholcombe, where's the package located?
[17:55] <cholcombe> coreycb, http://download.openattic.org/
[17:55] <cholcombe> better yet: http://apt.openattic.org/pool/main/o/openattic/
[18:00] <coreycb> cholcombe, the debian source is at: https://bitbucket.org/openattic/openattic/src/d9caeb7619363c9126a77a2f4e206ad33d351014/debian/?at=development
[18:00] <coreycb> cholcombe, you could grep through that and find the debconf questions
[18:00] <cholcombe> coreycb, :)
[18:00] <coreycb> maybe there's defaults
[18:59] <magicaltrout> jcastro: you rang?
[19:15] <magicaltrout> i am around jcastro i just can't read the screen :)