   I figure you're doing the work, so writing the spec is the least I can do.
[01:13] <bobesponja> hey
[01:13] <bobesponja> I get "CMake Error at /usr/share/kde4/apps/cmake/modules/FindPhonon.cmake:63 (message):" trying to compile choqok
[01:13] <bobesponja> any idea what's wrong? (I'm on karmic)
[01:14] <bobesponja> I have libphonon-dev and libqt4-phonon-dev installed
[01:14] <JontheEchidna> you'll need to re-install kdelibs5-dev
[01:14] <JontheEchidna> sudo apt-get install kdelibs5-dev --reinstall
[01:15] <bobesponja> ok, thanks a lot
[01:15] <lex79> JontheEchidna: plasma-addons FTBS on kubuntu backport
[01:16]  * JontheEchidna mumbles something about everything being perfect in -experimental
[01:16] <lex79> JontheEchidna: me too
[01:17] <lex79> maybe we can drop libmarble-dev
[01:17] <bobesponja> JontheEchidna: still happening http://pastie.org/private/azeiw5upzpyftlrpo0mscw
[01:17] <JontheEchidna> bobesponja: maybe try reinstalling libqt4-phonon-dev and kdelibs5-dev
[01:17] <bobesponja> k
[01:17] <JontheEchidna> lex79: maybe it's trying to build against an old libmarble-dev?
[01:18] <JontheEchidna> like maybe if it was still using 4.2.85 when it started building
[01:18] <lex79> JontheEchidna: yes
[01:18] <lex79> uhm
[01:18] <JontheEchidna> Get:321 http://ftpmaster.internal jaunty/main libmarble-dev 4:4.2.2-0ubuntu1 [51.8kB]
[01:19] <lex79> JontheEchidna: I try to retry build
[01:19]  * ScottK notes https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdenetwork/4:4.2.90-0ubuntu3/+build/1069000/+files/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-armel.kdenetwork_4:4.2.90-0ubuntu3_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz at NCommander.
[01:19] <bobesponja> awesome, thanks :)
[01:19] <bobesponja> it worked
[01:19] <JontheEchidna> :D
[01:21] <neversfelde> bobesponja: is there a new choqok version?
[01:21] <bobesponja> neversfelde: no, but I like to run trunk :)
[01:21] <neversfelde> ah ok, not many changes, or?
[01:22] <lex79> JontheEchidna: btw, I'm disagree with these ppas, in italian forum users confusion, they don't know what to do
[01:22] <JontheEchidna> me too :(
[01:22] <JontheEchidna> its not exactly like we can downgrade though. We're screwed
[01:24] <bobesponja> what's wrong with ppa?
[01:24] <JontheEchidna> oh, beta2 got uploaded to kubuntu-ppa/backports instead of kubuntu-ppa/experimental
[01:24] <JontheEchidna> nothing but headaches
[01:25] <neversfelde> will it be moved to experimental?
[01:25] <vorian> nothing should be in experimental except stuff we need tested
[01:25] <vorian> like networkplasmajiggy
[01:26] <JontheEchidna> actually, it was all in experimental and ready to release monday
[01:26] <neversfelde> I think it is not a good solution to provide stable software and beta versions in the same ppa. People who want to install amarok 2.1 are upgrading to 4.3 beta
[01:26] <JontheEchidna> right
[01:27] <vorian> hrm
[01:27] <JontheEchidna> this is what we used kubuntu-experimental for last cycle with KDE 4.1
[01:27] <JontheEchidna> *4.2
[01:27] <JontheEchidna> Once KDE hit 4.2.0, it went in to kubuntu-members-kde4 (analagous to kubuntu-ppa/backports)
[01:28] <JontheEchidna> This was just a failure of communication
[01:28] <lex79> yes !
[01:30] <neversfelde> anyway, we need warnings to not use ppas in productive environments and a description of what ppas are, when we publis
[01:30] <neversfelde> sorry
[01:30] <neversfelde> publish some news on kubuntu.org
[01:30] <claydoh> as well as the mailing list and forums too
[01:31] <lex79> there are people who have beta2 from experimental and people who have beta2 from backports and peopple who have both lol
[01:32] <JontheEchidna> that can't be... healthy. urgh
[01:32] <vorian> urgh
[01:33] <neversfelde> I think the only solution to not confuse users ist to shutdown the old experimental ppa and to create a wiki page that describes the difference between the three new ppas
[01:33] <neversfelde> I started one here https://wiki.kubuntu.org/ChristianMangold/UsingKubuntuPPAs
[01:33] <neversfelde> probably a native speaker can write a better text?
[01:33] <jjesse> neversfelde: i agree
[01:34] <JontheEchidna> the problem isn't with the old experimental ppa
[01:34] <JontheEchidna> I already cleared that one out
[01:34] <neversfelde> this page should be linked in every news that is about software in our ppas
[01:34] <JontheEchidna> the problem is that the new ones are being misused already :(
[01:34] <neversfelde> yes, that might be the reason why users are so confused
[01:37] <vorian> http://machinecrusade.net/100_2694.JPG
[01:38] <jjesse> how can be it being used incorrectly already?
[01:38] <JontheEchidna> ok, here's the story from the top
[01:38] <neversfelde> KDE 4.3 beta2 should go to experimental, before hundreds of users smash their systems with beta software :)
[01:39] <JontheEchidna> as we all know, we have Amarok 2.1 in kubuntu-ppa/backports
[01:39] <JontheEchidna> we also had KDE 4.3 beta 1 in kubuntu-ppa/experimental
[01:39] <NCommander> ScottK, yeah, saw that
[01:39] <JontheEchidna> the ninjas package 4.3 beta2 and push it to experimental by monday  this week
[01:40] <JontheEchidna> Riddell thinks we're uploading to kubuntu-ppa/backports and starts to copy the packages over
[01:41] <JontheEchidna> the builds fail for some reason or another (dunno why), and then when I get Riddell's ping I tell him that we were supposed to be using experimental
[01:41] <ScottK> NCommander: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdegames/4:4.2.90-0ubuntu1~ppa1/+build/1065645/+files/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-armel.kdegames_4:4.2.90-0ubuntu1~ppa1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz too
[01:41] <JontheEchidna> but then he goes and rebuilds them and does a release with the packages half built
[01:42] <NCommander> JontheEchidna, ?
[01:42] <JontheEchidna> and now we have all the headaches
[01:42] <JontheEchidna> NCommander: not related to arm, see backlog
[01:42] <NCommander> Yeah, sounds like fun
[01:42] <NCommander> And I got reports that python-qt4/sip4 are suffering an all-architecture breakage that breaks plasma
[01:42]  * neversfelde is glad, that he uses a dev release, better than jaunty with ppas :D
[01:43] <JontheEchidna> ^unfortunately this may be true :/
[01:43]  * NCommander still needs to wipe and rebuild his laptop
[01:43] <JontheEchidna> like I said, just a failure of communication
[01:44] <vorian> why not move amarok to a safer place?
[01:44] <neversfelde> we should pull back the news on kubuntu.org, delete the packages in ppa backports and upload 4.3 beta2 again to experimental, if that is not yet done
[01:45] <vorian> we can just copy them, no need to upload
[01:45] <neversfelde> ok
[01:45] <JontheEchidna> no need, they're already in experimental
[01:46] <JontheEchidna> experimental has been ready for release since monday ;-)
[01:46] <neversfelde> than only change the news on kubuntu.org and delte in backports
[01:46] <lex79> in experimental are build against libqt 4.5.1, in backport not
[01:46] <neversfelde> s/than/then
[01:46] <JontheEchidna> ah man, and they have the same version in both ppas don't they...
[01:46] <JontheEchidna> we may have to re-up just to bump the version a bit
[01:47] <lex79> yes
[01:52] <lex79> JontheEchidna: <Riddell> JontheEchidna: backports is intended for backports of the next KDE releases.  experimental has stuff like qt 4.5.1 in it which is for different users
[01:52] <lex79> so, the problem is build against 4.5.1 or not for beta2 backport?
[01:53] <JontheEchidna> I don't think that's really a problem
[01:53] <JontheEchidna> all of the beta1 users have been using 4.5.1
[01:54] <JontheEchidna> The users of Amarok 2.1 and KDE 4.3 beta x *are* quite different, however
[01:54] <lex79> JontheEchidna: why? users have used experimental for beta1?
[01:54] <JontheEchidna> right, beta1 was published to experimental and released
[01:55] <lex79> oh
[01:57] <lex79> I think amarok and other apps -> backports, kde 4.3-> experimental, kde 4.2.x -> updates
[01:57] <neversfelde> +1
[01:57] <JontheEchidna> yeah, that's what we did for jaunty (except with ppas with different names)
[01:57] <DaskreeCH> What's the official usage of backports?
[01:57] <neversfelde> and once KDE 4.3 is stable -> Updates
[01:57] <lex79> and updates staging? what is? lol
[01:58] <JontheEchidna> lex79: for building stuff before pushing to -updates, -backports, etc
[01:58] <JontheEchidna> so that we can build everything and get it all published so people don't get half-upgraded systems while everything is building
[01:58] <JontheEchidna> but we dont' have enough space to use it yet :/
[01:58] <lex79> ok
[01:58] <JontheEchidna> the soyuz dudes are being unusually slow about that
[01:59] <DaskreeCH> vorian: What's whith the power supply pic?
[01:59] <neversfelde> I am confused
[02:00] <vorian> DaskreeCH: I just had my computer open to put a new graphics card in, and thought I'd take a pic
[02:00] <neversfelde> can Amarok 2.1 go to updates, when it is tested enough?
[02:00] <jjesse> i am too but i'm not quite the developer so i get confused easily
[02:00] <lex79> neversfelde: once kde 4.3 is stable -> updates I think is not a good solution, because where we can put 4.2.x if in updates there is 4.3?
[02:00] <JontheEchidna> neversfelde: a more correct would be official ubuntu backports
[02:00] <DaskreeCH> So how come Amarok and Koffice don't go to backports ?
[02:01] <JontheEchidna> the ppa backports or the official backports?
[02:02] <lex79> amarok and koffice is in official backports?
[02:02] <neversfelde> so 4.2.* is an update and the stable 4.3 will be a backport?
[02:02] <JontheEchidna> nope, amarok might be in official backports soon though
[02:02] <DaskreeCH> So what's the difference between fficial backports and ppa backports ?
[02:03] <JontheEchidna> neversfelde: correct
[02:03] <JontheEchidna> If 4.3 is "good enough" it'd probably go in to jaunty-backports like 4.2 did for intrepid
[02:03] <DaskreeCH> We sign off on ppa backports while someone else signs off on Onfficial ?
[02:03] <vorian> (4.3 final)
[02:03] <JontheEchidna> less red tape, so we can get stuff up there the day of the release
[02:03] <JontheEchidna> in unofficial backports
[02:03] <DaskreeCH> Ok so functioanlly there is no difference other than time lag ?
[02:04] <neversfelde> we should call it test-updates and test-backports :)
[02:04] <JontheEchidna> right, that and varying quality caused by blunders such as these
[02:04] <JontheEchidna> *varying quality issues
[02:04] <DaskreeCH> ok so it's agreed that experimental is the lowest quality and the shortest time period
[02:05] <DaskreeCH> should updates be high quality long time period before release?
[02:05] <neversfelde> I still think that alpha and beta packages should never be in backports or updates ppa, that stuff should be in experimental
[02:06] <neversfelde> as amarok beta was
[02:06] <JontheEchidna> me too
[02:08] <DaskreeCH> so what's the difference between backports and updates?
[02:08] <nixternal> how the hell do you bring a machine out of standby mode?
[02:08] <DaskreeCH> updates is safer?
[02:08] <DaskreeCH> nixternal: Offer it a seat
[02:08] <vorian> DaskreeCH: updates is like 4.2.3 to 4.2.4
[02:09] <JontheEchidna> we can then use the -updates packages for regression testing to hopefully get it in to official updates
[02:09] <DaskreeCH> vorian: so major version bumps never turn up there?
[02:09] <vorian> DaskreeCH: ✓
[02:09] <DaskreeCH> if in the middle of a  Kubuntu cycle they put out Koffice 2.6 backports gets that and updates keeps Koffice 2.5.x ?
[02:09] <vorian> yes
[02:10] <DaskreeCH> ok now we need to kinda enforce that socially :0
[02:10] <vorian> YUS!
[02:10] <vorian> nixternal: laptop?
[02:10]  * DaskreeCH also thinks that we need some regression tests for auto builds
[02:10] <DaskreeCH>  When is hte next Kubuntu meeting ?
[02:11] <neversfelde> DaskreeCH: http://www.doodle.com/gnrcikfvukhxce2s
[02:12] <neversfelde> seems to be no targeted date yet
[02:12] <DaskreeCH> neversfelde: Ha ha I guess it wasnt't today?
[02:12] <vorian> the main KDE release updates are not autobuilds
[02:13] <neversfelde> hehe
[02:13] <JontheEchidna> The best time seems to be Tuesday at 9 UTC
[02:13] <vorian> darn it!
[02:13] <JontheEchidna> or should I say... 21:00 UTC
[02:13] <vorian> I always miss the meetings
[02:14] <DaskreeCH> vorian: yes but stil something like a scriptthat will run an install of atlest kubuntu-desktop and then run each program to see if they break and record errors
[02:14] <vorian> stupid $WORK
[02:14] <vorian> DaskreeCH: oh, yes - I agree with that
[02:28] <DaskreeCH> http://tinyurl.com/kubuntuwww
[02:36] <ryanakca> JontheEchidna: Oh, darn, were all those times UTC?
[02:36]  * ryanakca should probably change his times then
[02:38] <JontheEchidna> that's the best we can guess
[02:38] <JontheEchidna> otherwise all the times are a lot later than usual
[02:43] <yuriy> wait the times were UTC? that might explain things
[02:43] <yuriy> they're still weird though
[03:26] <nixternal> Apport PyQt4 -> PyKDE4 complete!
[03:26] <vorian> ^5 nixternal!
[03:27] <nixternal> 2 apport tasks down, 2 more to go :)
[03:31] <nixternal> Riddell: apport-kde completed :)
[03:35] <nixternal> interesting...2 messages asking me for something I can't do: msg#1) get me free ubuntu t-shirts (note I can't even get myself free ubuntu t-shirts silly), and msg#2) can you get me on board at canonical (note I can't even get myself on board at Canonical silly)
[03:35] <nixternal> interesting emails this evening
[03:36] <nixternal> back to hacking on apport...want to get it all done so I can have my plate cleared for Kubuntu Netbook Hacking
[03:37] <vorian> nixternal: can you get ME on board at canonical though?
[03:37] <nixternal> get you on board the end of my foot! :p
[03:38] <vorian> :o
[03:38]  * vorian should get a netbook
[03:38]  * vorian figures out how to talk the mrs into it
[03:39] <nixternal> Help -> Report Bug should use apport
[03:39] <nixternal> where do I even start on that one, anyone want to offer me a tip?
[03:39] <nixternal> and if you tell me to not play leapfrog with a unicorn I will beat you up
[03:40] <ScottK> nixternal: There's a launchpad integration patch somewhere that should be a good basis.
[03:40] <nixternal> right, I have been trying to find that damn thing
[03:40] <nixternal> that was in KDE3
[03:40]  * nixternal goes back, WAY BACK!
[03:40] <ScottK> No, we had one in Jaunty.
[03:40] <nixternal> hrmm, just didn't stick I take it
[03:41] <ScottK> Or maybe we didn't.  Dunno for sure.
[03:41] <nixternal> hrmm
[03:41]  * ScottK has been home less than 24 hours since before UDS, so my situational awareness is kind of low ATM.
[03:42] <nixternal> for stuff in bzr that is under ~kubuntu-members, can people propose merges that aren't in ~kubuntu-members?
[03:42] <nixternal> instead of passing silly diffs around
[03:42] <ScottK> Anyone can propose a merge.
[03:43] <ScottK> If you're in kubuntu-members you can just commit directly.
[03:43] <nixternal> ok, wasn't for sure how it worked when it was a team branch and not a project branch
[03:45] <nixternal> oh sweet, the integration should be easy
[03:47] <nixternal> heh, how to fix standby issue in Ubuntu ->  ctrl+alt+sysrq+r  ctrl+alt+sysrq+s  ctrl+alt+sysrq+e  ctrl+alt+sysrq+i  ctrl+alt+sysrq+u ctrl+alt+sysrq+b   will fix it, youll reboot though.
[03:47] <nixternal> sounds like Windows :p
[03:48] <vorian> really?
[03:49] <nixternal> that's what was recommended to me
[03:51] <vorian> *don't press random buttons like that again*
[04:01] <DaskreeCH> Why Ctrl+Alt ?
[04:02] <DaskreeCH> So bringing back up the Repos discussion
[04:02] <DaskreeCH>  Digikam is coming up for a 1.0 release Would that be in backports?
[04:03] <e-jat> can someone help me on this : http://paste.ubuntu.com/192900/
[04:04] <vorian> 06/10/09|18:17 < JontheEchidna> sudo apt-get install kdelibs5-dev --reinstall
[04:04] <vorian> 06/10/09|18:20 < JontheEchidna> bobesponja: maybe try reinstalling libqt4-phonon-dev and kdelibs5-dev
[04:04] <vorian> e-jat: ^
[04:06] <e-jat> need to reinstall it .. trying ...
[04:08] <nixternal> e-jat: sudo apt-get --purge remove libqt4-phonon-dev
[04:08] <nixternal> then reinstall it...totally forgot about that
[04:09] <e-jat> nixternal: ok thanks ..
[04:10] <robotgeek> wow, i have him same advice. lol
[04:10] <e-jat> nixternal: http://tinyurl.com/nets7t
[04:10] <e-jat> thats y i try to compile kopete from svn
[04:11] <e-jat> even i hv update to version kopete 4.2.90-0ubuntu3 ... the bugs still happen
[04:15] <e-jat> thanks nixternal its work .. :)
[04:30] <nixternal> e-jat: I apologize for not even catching that last night
[04:30] <nixternal> I recently had the same exact issue
[04:30] <nixternal> it was an upgrade last week that broke that
[04:30] <e-jat> nixternal: owh ..
[04:30] <e-jat> i just upgrade to karmic ..
[04:31] <e-jat> hopefully .. compiling from svn will get temp fix
[04:33] <nixternal> I am a quilt dummy!!!
[04:34] <nixternal> bah, I see why the hell it isn't working for me
[04:34] <e-jat> nixternal: still cant make kopete work :(
[04:35] <e-jat> kopete: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/kde4/kopete_yahoo.so: undefined symbol: _ZN6Kopete8ProtocolC2ERK14KComponentDataP7QObjectb
[04:38]  * DaskreeCH kicks Coova Chilli hard
[04:38] <e-jat> should i purge the kopete n try to reinstall with the latest package ?
[04:40] <e-jat> nixternal: r u working on it now ? <nixternal> bah, I see why the hell it isn't working for me <---- may i know why ? :)
[04:40] <DaskreeCH> Why does kontact turn up twice in Krunner?
[04:49] <_groo_> hi/2 all
[04:49] <_groo_> JontheEchidna: jon are you there?
[04:49] <_groo_> ScottK: scott?
[04:49] <_groo_> apachelogger: ping?
[04:50] <_groo_> any dev? :P
[04:50] <_groo_> i hate when devs have a life ¬¬
[04:50] <ScottK> _groo_: What's up?
[04:51] <_groo_> hi ScottK
[04:51] <_groo_> ScottK: are you guys aware that kdeutils is broken in both experimental and backports? beta 2
[04:51] <ScottK> I'm not.
[04:51] <_groo_>   kdeutils: Depends: kde-printer-applet (>= 4:4.2.90-0ubuntu1~jaunty1~ppa1) but it is not going to be installed
[04:52] <ScottK> Same problem I uploaded a fix for yesterday to the archive, right?
[04:52] <_groo_> which makes sense since in the ppas the package is renamed as printer-applet only
[04:52] <_groo_> ScottK: but you sent to karmic correct?
[04:52] <_groo_> no one updated jaunty
[04:52] <ScottK> Yes.
[04:53] <e-jat> ScottK: how bout kopete :(
[04:53] <ScottK> _groo_: I haven't been following the PPA packages.
[04:53] <_groo_> and since you guys published it in the kubuntu page, its gonna piss a lot of otherwise happy users :d
[04:54] <_groo_> also kdebindings is nowhere to be found.. and it was working correctly in experimental
[04:55] <e-jat> _groo_: its mean better user kubuntu-experimental ?
[04:55] <e-jat> rather than kubuntu-ppa?
[04:57] <ScottK> _groo_: I'm currently on travel for $WORK, so only have limited attention to pay to Kubuntu right now (I've been home for less than 24 hours since before UDS).
[04:57] <_groo_> e-jat: bot have the same problem, since backports only copied the experimental pckages
[04:57] <_groo_> ScottK: sure scort, im not complaining, im just reporting, could you please inform the proper channels then?
[04:58] <e-jat> _groo_: thats why desktop gone .... so i decide to move to karmic ..
[04:58] <_groo_> i gotta go in 5, just wanted to report what i found
[04:58] <ScottK> This is pretty much the proper channel.
[04:58] <ScottK> Maybe vorian can fix ....
[04:58] <_groo_> does vorian reads backlogs?
[04:58] <ScottK> Maybe.
[04:59] <_groo_> 50/50 answer.. i love those ¬¬
[04:59] <_groo_> dave.. will i dream?
[04:59] <_groo_> maybe...
[05:00] <_groo_> for those too young.. shamelesse rip of 2010 space odissey
[05:00]  * ScottK is not too young.
[05:00] <_groo_> mid thirties?
[05:01] <_groo_> well gotta go before my wife kills me :D see ya all tomorrow...
[05:01]  * _groo_ out
[05:04]  * ScottK notes groo is short a decade.
[05:05] <e-jat> :)
[05:23] <shtylman> Riddell: I have been thinking...and if we have the room (or can maybe create the room) putting a few games on the install disk might be a good idea. Firstly, users can play a game or two while they wait for the install. Second...having a game or two preinstalled means that if they have downtime or are waiting for updates they can go launch a game. Games might also make it more likely that they search for more games through pac
[05:23] <shtylman>  installer and become more familiar with that at the same time....just a few quick thoughts ;)
[05:24] <ScottK> shtylman: We discussed this a bit at UDS and decided not.
[05:24] <shtylman> ScottK: yea...I remember...just wanted to bring it up in case we ever did create the disk space
[05:24] <shtylman> I think the potential benefits are there for the lay person
[05:25] <shtylman> I know it probly won't happen...but we can bounce it around every now and then :)
[05:29] <ScottK> shtylman: How goes OOo?
[05:29] <shtylman> ScottK: good...I sent my initial patches to the OO list for some installation help.
[05:29] <ScottK> Cool.
[05:29] <shtylman> I have the migration mostly done and just got stuck on the actual install part
[05:30] <shtylman> so once I get a response to that I hope to have something in my PPA before too long
[05:57] <yuriy> arora is currently leaking memory quite a bit worse than firefox, that's got to be fixed
[06:47] <nixternal> pfft, changing out the bug report stuff in KDE was a hell of a lot easier than I though
[06:48] <nixternal> I utilized all of the bug report framework already in place, just changed it to a process and fed it:
[06:49] <nixternal> *proc << '/usr/share/apport/apport-qt' << '-f' << '-p' << aboutData->appName();
[06:50] <nixternal> <3 kdelibs
[06:52] <nixternal> now lets see if it builds :p
[07:45] <e-jat> nixternal: r u here?
[07:59] <nixternal> e-jat: ya
[07:59] <nixternal> booyah, added the apport support to kdelibs for Report Bug, just pushed to bzr the changes
[07:59] <e-jat> how your kopete ?
[08:00] <nixternal> and, I also fixed an upstream issue with kdesdk and not building since someone forgot to add -DQT3_SUPPORT for svn kioslave
[08:00] <nixternal> e-jat: it works
[08:00] <nixternal> is it not supposed to work?
[08:02] <e-jat> i reinstall the kopete 4:4.2.90-0ubuntu3 still not work :(
[08:02] <nixternal> knocking out that Kubuntu/Todo list baby!
[08:02] <nixternal> mine works fine
[08:02] <e-jat> so where should i look into ?
[08:02] <nixternal> e-jat: you might need to get rid of ~/.kde/*/kopete as there might be something munged up there
[08:03] <e-jat> nixternal: trying ..
[08:03] <nixternal> ~/.kde/share/apps/kopete and ~/.kde/share/config/kopete*
[08:03] <e-jat> then reinstall ?
[08:03] <nixternal> no need to reinstall
[08:04] <e-jat> k
[08:04] <nixternal> need to keep the support type stuff unless it is development related to a minimum in here...as typically nobody will answer support requests in a devel channel, plus this time of night, it is odd someone is around :)
[08:06] <e-jat> nixternal: after rid off the 2 folder .. i can open kopete .. but suddently when i want to add my yahoo account .. it crash ..
[08:06] <e-jat> symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/kde4/kopete_yahoo.so: undefined symbol: _ZN6Kopete8ProtocolC2ERK14KComponentDataP7QObjectb
[08:07] <e-jat> :(
[08:08] <nixternal> I just finished chatting with someone on yahoo, not to rub it in or anything
[08:09] <e-jat> ill try to purge .. then reinstall .. is it ok ?
[08:10] <nixternal> yup
[08:10] <nixternal> nhandler: what are you doing up this late?
[08:14] <e-jat> nixternal: http://paste.ubuntu.com/193267/
[08:17] <nixternal> sudo apt-get -f install
[08:17] <nixternal> I am going to bed, g'nite
[08:17] <e-jat> nixternal: nite ..
[08:17] <nixternal> 02:12:51 [   dashbot] 4.3/kdesdk build likely fixed by nixternal (5 dashstars)
[08:17] <nixternal> ahh, nice little present before I go to bed :)
[08:17] <e-jat> :)
[08:17] <e-jat> cannot force to install :(
[08:18] <nixternal> that is because kopete-crypto is bad packaging
[08:18] <nixternal> Depends: libkleo4 (= 4:4.2.2-0ubuntu1) but 4:4.2.90-0ubuntu1 is to be installed
[08:21] <nixternal> ya, kopete-cryptography needs a packaging overhaul...it won't work until then
[08:21] <nixternal> on that note, g'nite!
[08:21] <e-jat> nixternal: nite .. c ya soo n
[08:27] <Mamarok> claydoh: I answered Steven for the umpteen time and asked him to join the forum, you are in BCc
[08:41] <Quintasan> wtf, why policykit in kpackagekit asks me for ROOT password instead of mine?
[09:39] <apachelogger> wicked code \o/
[09:40] <freinhard> good morning! which one of the new kubuntu-ppa backports do i want on jaunty? saw that backports does contain 4.3b2 but no qt, so i guess i want experimental?
[09:41] <freinhard> s/ppa backports/ppa repositories/
[09:42] <Nightrose> JontheEchidna: any news on getting amarok into official backports?
[09:49] <Tonio_> Riddell: http://kde-apps.org/content/show.php/Package+KIO?content=106694&PHPSESSID=23aaa45cf982e6a01b82587b34bb0aac
[09:49] <Tonio_> Riddell: could be a good start for a kio protocol
[09:50] <Tonio_> Riddell: especially since it links packagekit
[09:50] <apachelogger> if only packagekit was usable
[09:51] <Tonio_> apachelogger: I'm just packaging the 0.4.x branch
[09:52] <apachelogger> does it fix the upgrade-which-pulls-in-and-or-removes-packages scenario?
[09:52] <Tonio_> apachelogger: https://edge.launchpad.net/~packagekit/+archive/0.4.x
[09:52] <Tonio_> apachelogger: I don't know yet
[09:52] <Tonio_> apachelogger: but it has a lot more features
[09:53] <apachelogger> well, if it comes with a built in coffee machine it still would be a rather useless application for at least 25% of scenarios
[09:54] <apachelogger> not to mention that it failing on above mentioned scneario basically makes all news on kubuntu.org rather worthless
[09:54] <apachelogger> not that the news would be much understandable to anyone but those who would not use packagekit anyway ;-)
[09:55] <Nightrose> Tonio_: Riddell is out till saturday or sunday
[09:56] <Nightrose> apachelogger: do you have time to get amarok into official backports? it s*cks to still have users come to us complaining about 2.0.2
[09:56] <Nightrose> it would be nice to get 2.1 to as many users as possible
[09:56] <Tonio_> Nightrose: thx for the info
[09:56]  * apachelogger is unfortunately still on a code roll
[09:57] <Nightrose> heh
[09:57] <Nightrose> Tonio_: you maybe?
[10:07] <Tonio_> Nightrose: not that I don't want to, but I'm against backports, since we don't have enough resources to maintain them....
[10:07] <Tonio_> Nightrose: are there showstopper bugs with 2.0 ?
[10:07] <Tonio_> appart from poor interface ?
[10:16] <apachelogger> anyone using synergy?
[10:17] <Nightrose> Tonio_: there are _a lot_ of problems with 2.0.2 and we get kubuntuusers complaining all the time plus useless bugreports
[10:17] <Nightrose> it's a real problem for upstream
[10:18] <apachelogger> backports aint gonna change that all to much though
[10:18] <Nightrose> and keeping 2.0.2 until karmik really hurts us
[10:18] <Nightrose> apachelogger: well a lot more people have backports enabled than the ppa
[10:18] <Tonio_> Nightrose: why not a backport then ;)
[10:18] <Nightrose> Tonio_: ? that's what i'm asking for
[10:18] <Tonio_> Nightrose: the thing is that I'm not very used to the backports process....
[10:18] <Tonio_> ScottK: arround ?
[10:18] <Tonio_> Nightrose: he would be the man fo this
[10:18] <apachelogger> Nightrose: I would really think that a lot is not too correct
[10:19] <apachelogger> Nightrose: backports can cause way too many problems
[10:19] <Tonio_> Nightrose: from my experience amarok works "correctly" on jaunty
[10:19] <apachelogger> hell, even updates cause way too many :P
[10:19] <Tonio_> Nightrose: although it's not exceptional, I agree
[10:19] <Tonio_> apachelogger: that's my concern too...
[10:20]  * apachelogger got 0.1 of his synergy plasmoid ready for release but doesn't feel like QAing it :P
[10:20] <Nightrose> apachelogger: so are you against 2.1 in backports just because not many people use it? cause if so i have to disagree
[10:20] <apachelogger> no
[10:20] <apachelogger> IMHO you can backport all you want, but I doubt that it will have much use against the 2.0 complaints
[10:21] <Nightrose> you folks released with 2.0.2 which caused us a hell of a lot of bad publicity once jaunty hit people
[10:21] <Nightrose> so now please help us with getting this fixed as well as possible
[10:21] <Nightrose> i know we can't reach everyone with the update
[10:21] <Nightrose> and that's fine
[10:22] <Nightrose> but backports helps at least with some of them
[10:22] <Nightrose> and i see no got reason not to get 2.1 into backports
[10:25] <Nightrose> *good
[10:27]  * Nightrose really hates to complain and sound whiny about this but it really is a problem for upstream and your users
[10:30] <Tonio_> packagekit and packagekit-gnome are done.... now kpackagekit ;)
[11:30] <tsimpson> someone should think up a good reply for bug #385802
[11:32]  * Nightrose agrees
[11:32] <Nightrose> nixternal: ping
[11:49] <apachelogger> http://www.kde-look.org:80/content/show.php?content=106711
[12:00] <apachelogger> tsimpson: like that it has been discussed and done in the past and basically just needs approval from tb anyway? :P
[12:01] <tsimpson> apachelogger: it just needs to be worded nicely and clearly
[12:01] <apachelogger> meh :P
[12:02] <tsimpson> it's bound to come up again, so the answer should be "complete" I guess
[12:15] <Quintasan> meh, I always forget there are some plasmoids that don't require compiling :P
[12:17] <sourcemaker> are there packages for the 9.30 kernel? (compatible to 9.04)?
[12:26] <ghostcube> hi folks
[12:26] <ghostcube> just tried to do dost-upgrade and the following packages are going to be removed all dev and dbg packages
[12:26] <ghostcube> kde-devel kdebase-dev kdebase-runtime-dbg kdebase-workspace-dbg kdemultimedia-dbg kdeplasma-addons-data libplasma-dev
[12:26] <ghostcube> is therre an replacement
[12:27] <Mamarok> dist-upgrade from what to what?
[12:28] <ghostcube> oh sorry :) 4.2.4 to 4.30 beta 2 i think so :)
[12:28] <Nightrose> ghostcube: you are probably seeing the broken backports ppa
[12:28] <Nightrose> Riddell said he fixed it yesterday
[12:28] <ghostcube> hmm yes its the ppa fresh apt-get update
[12:29] <Nightrose> apachelogger: ^ can you check if the ppa is still b0rked
[12:29] <ghostcube> thx for the info :)
[12:36] <apachelogger> Nightrose: its not
[12:36] <vorian> ScottK: yes, i read backlogs :P
[12:36] <apachelogger> the packaging however might be
[12:36] <apachelogger> especially the removal of -dev seems to be indicating this
[12:37] <Nightrose> jep
[12:44] <ghostcube> so i should wait or should i update and install them later again
[13:20] <JontheEchidna> I pushed a fixed kde-devel to kubuntu-ppa/experimental for beta1
[13:21] <JontheEchidna> *kde-meta, which builds kde-devel
[13:23] <JontheEchidna> Nightrose: not yet, I'll look at it today
[13:23] <Nightrose> thx :)
[13:28] <ghostcube> ok i will wait a day guys :)
[13:43] <rgreening> Riddell: do you know if proxies work in Arora? Seems broken for me...
[13:52] <rgreening> Riddell: nevermind. The proxy conf dialog is horrible. It's needs some serious love to clean-up and make more usable.
[13:52] <rgreening> perhaps even some integration with KDE back-end...
[14:03] <Quintasan> http://pastebin.com/f2d825569 <-- can anyone tell what's this?
[14:05] <tsimpson> probably that gtk.ToggleButton.__init__() is given too many args
[14:22] <agateau> brag time!
[14:23] <agateau> fixed background of Arora location bar when using Oxygen
[14:23] <agateau> proof: http://imagebin.ca/view/xjrm6IS.html
[14:23] <agateau> :)
[14:37] <Lure> are kubuntu alpha2 cd's already near ready?
[14:37]  * Lure would test them tonight on his system
[14:37]  * Lure thinks that jaunty is becoming too boring ;-)
[14:43] <Mamarok> from #kubuntu:
[14:43] <Mamarok> 15:41 < Alcapond> Hi - installed KDE 4.3b2 today - and everything is working fine! Great work there!
[14:45] <Quintasan> hmmm, KPackageKit is asking for root password instead of mine, wtf?
[15:20] <neversfelde> apachelogger: is Kubuntus plasma compiled with ruby support? I can't install your synergy plasma widget although ruby-kde4 and synergy are installed
[15:22] <Quintasan> what neversfelde said
[15:32] <vorian> dudes
[15:37] <Quintasan> ?
[15:38] <vorian> nothing, i'm frustrated at kwin atm
[15:39] <mgraesslin> vorian: what's wrong?
[15:40] <vorian> hrmm
[15:40] <vorian> it seem dri is wrong
[15:40] <sebas> mgraesslin, zarin: after a couple of hours of use with the new driver, the move window between xinerama screens hangery is gone it seems
[15:41] <sebas> mgraesslin: update your driver :)
[15:41] <vorian> it's not kwin, its dri it seems
[15:41] <sebas> Not that it's the right channel for that ;)
[15:41] <mgraesslin> :-)
[15:42] <sebas> And I wondered why zarin isn't here :>
[15:47] <vorian> weird
[15:47] <vorian> i selected dri again, now it accepts that configuration
[15:49] <Nightrose> vorian: hey :)   any updates on my problem by any chance?
[15:49]  * vorian checks
[15:57] <vorian> Nightrose: sometimes these things take a while to even check :/
[15:58] <Nightrose> vorian: understood
[16:01] <flacoste> is iPod touch support available in the amarok 2.1 package?
[16:01] <flacoste> it doesn't seem to work here
[16:19] <nixternal> Nightrose: pong?
[16:19] <Nightrose> nixternal: got 5 mins for a query?
[16:20] <apachelogger> neversfelde: yes it is
[16:20] <apachelogger> neversfelde: any detailed error message?
[16:20] <neversfelde> apachelogger: mhh, how to install synergy? I tried it from a local file and with kgethotnewstuff
[16:21] <neversfelde> Installing failed
[16:21] <apachelogger> hm
[16:21] <neversfelde> I guess that is not a detailed error message
[16:21] <apachelogger> neversfelde: check if it is in the list
[16:21] <apachelogger> there might be some issue in 4.2
[16:21] <apachelogger> I only tested with 4.3
[16:22] <neversfelde> oh yes it is and I tested it with jaunty and karmic
[16:22] <apachelogger> hmmmmmmmm
[16:22] <apachelogger> screwy plasma
[16:22] <nixternal> Nightrose: sure
[16:22] <neversfelde> it is only in the list, I can't add it
[16:23] <apachelogger> neversfelde: what happens when you try?
[16:23] <neversfelde> apachelogger: Could not create a ruby-script ScriptEngine for the Synergy widget.
[16:23] <apachelogger> weird
[16:24] <apachelogger> neversfelde: dpkg -S plasma.rb
[16:25] <apachelogger> neversfelde: dpkg -S applet.rb
[16:25] <neversfelde> libkorundum4-ruby1.8: /usr/lib/ruby/1.8/KDE/plasma.rb
[16:26] <neversfelde> dpkg: *applet.rb* nicht gefunden.
[16:26] <apachelogger> uh
[16:26] <apachelogger> fancy
[16:27] <apachelogger> neversfelde: dpkg -s kdebase-workspace-data|grep Status
[16:27] <neversfelde> Status: install ok installed
[16:29] <apachelogger> neversfelde: ok, that is weird ... kdebase-workspace-data should contain applet.rb
[16:30] <apachelogger> neversfelde: try apt-get --reinstall install kdebase-workspace-data
[16:30] <neversfelde> applet.rb is faound on jaunty
[16:30] <neversfelde> s/faound/found
[16:30] <apachelogger> clearly they broke karmic
[16:30] <apachelogger> neversfelde: then it should work on jaunty
[16:31] <neversfelde> I'll try it again
[16:32] <neversfelde> apachelogger: nope, Installation failed
[16:32] <apachelogger> well
[16:32] <apachelogger> the loading matters
[16:32] <apachelogger> not the installation
[16:32] <apachelogger> I think I know why it fails
[16:32] <apachelogger> even though I think it is stupid
[16:33] <neversfelde> ok, it is in the list now, that was not so when using kgethotnewstuff
[16:33] <neversfelde> and it loads
[16:33] <apachelogger> redownload
[16:33] <apachelogger> I uploaded a version that should fix the issue
[16:33] <JontheEchidna> ugh, qtscriptgenerator is going to be a tough backport
[16:34] <JontheEchidna> and since qtscriptbindings was never an official package...
[16:35] <neversfelde> apachelogger: yes, works now on karmic
[16:35] <nixternal> JontheEchidna: hrmm, ya that could be a pita
[16:36] <apachelogger> neversfelde: installation too?
[16:36] <neversfelde> yes
[16:36] <apachelogger> k, thx
[16:36] <neversfelde> and installation is also ok for karmic
[16:36] <neversfelde> but it does not load
[16:36] <apachelogger> yeah, because there is no applet.rb
[16:37] <apachelogger> because someone broke the package
[16:37] <apachelogger> probably by merging
[16:37] <apachelogger> it is incredibly how high the quality of the core KDE merges are
[16:37] <JontheEchidna> I didn't see any missing files when I reviewed kdebase-workspace this time around
[16:37] <apachelogger> maybe the build dep was dropped
[16:38] <apachelogger> piping everything through a script would cause the same random regressions as we see after merging
[16:38] <apachelogger> like that KDM says welcome to debian stuff
[16:38] <apachelogger> reappears _every_ cycle
[16:38] <JontheEchidna> yeah, looks like the build-dep got dropped
[16:39] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: also check for pykde
[16:39] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: and if there is still the independent python package for plasma: merge it into general workspace and make the appropriate package depend on pykde and rubykde
[16:40] <apachelogger> there is really no point in having script capabilities if we don't support them out-of-the-box
[16:40] <JontheEchidna> there is a plasma-scriptengine-python package
[16:40] <JontheEchidna> along with ruby, qedje and webkit
[16:47] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: hm
[16:47] <JontheEchidna> which we picked up in the merge, coincidentally
[16:47] <apachelogger> well, it makes sense
[16:48] <JontheEchidna> yeah, we went for way too long without merging
[16:48] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: I suppose we need to add python ruby and webkit to the CD seed though
[16:48] <apachelogger> or maybe even let -desktop recommend them
[16:48] <JontheEchidna> we'd have the space if quassel was built stripped
[16:48] <apachelogger> AFAIK those 3 are getable via GHNS
[16:49] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: just change the branch :P
[16:49] <JontheEchidna> or if we used konversation :P
[16:49] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: also once alpha2 is out I will push my LZMA changes for pkg-kde
[16:49] <apachelogger> then we should easily free up the additional space we need
[16:49] <JontheEchidna> that'll help
[16:49] <apachelogger> every package 1 MiB and we have a fair amount of space
[16:50] <neversfelde> that kopete-facebook plugin should go to the cd?
[16:50] <neversfelde> seems to be very buggy, becaus it does not react on global changes of the status
[16:51] <apachelogger> neversfelde: no!
[16:51] <apachelogger> it is not even advised by upstream to use it
[16:51] <apachelogger> in fact, since I was reading the social desktop spec earlier on
[16:52] <apachelogger> I think most of the stuff proposed there is rather impossible
[16:52] <neversfelde> it is on the todo list
[16:52] <apachelogger> like having the socialdesktop plasmoid show something in the nearby tab .... how would the plasmoid know what nearby is without configuration?
[16:52] <apachelogger> + I would find it rather weird that my desktop is suggesting to hook up with people I no absolutely nothing about
[16:53] <nixternal> apachelogger: actually it isn't impossible...at UDS I saw the people with GNOME having some of that social stuff already and it was pretty slick...like you could see who was near and start sharing files or something like that
[16:53] <nixternal> it was pretty cool..can't remember what it was called though
[16:53] <neversfelde> the socialdesktop plasmoid is really not very good atm, thats a bigger problem :)
[16:53] <apachelogger> nixternal: why would I want to share stuff with a stranger?  I am against adding it to karmic while it is in playground
[17:00] <apachelogger> well by default at least :P
[17:00] <apachelogger> much more of use: hook up with usptream, get a PPA for semi-daily builds and help upstream mature the product
[17:00] <apachelogger> then again I am a QA bitch nowadays
[17:00] <nixternal> they had a news special on our news last night about the iphone, but it was all the social aspect of it and showing the top apps and what not...like facebook, myspace, twitter and crap...and people were like "oh ya, I probably spend 8 or more hours updating my social stuff"
[17:00] <nixternal> ARE YOU KIDDING ME?
[17:00] <nixternal> you my friend, are a loser!
[17:01]  * apachelogger updates some of his social profiles today
[17:01] <nixternal> hahah
[17:01] <apachelogger> made me wanna kill someone
[17:01] <e-jat> elo nixternal :)
[17:01] <apachelogger> then I looked at beautiful ruby code and all was good :)
[17:02] <neversfelde> we can create a metapackage kubuntu-socialdesktop, it should remove any office, any browser, any pim and add choqok and all the facebook plugins :)
[17:02] <nixternal> I never caught on to the facebook craze...a few years back raphink got me on facebook, i looked around and was like, no thank you
[17:02] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: also, I am not sure that thing is all too much in development looking at websvn
[17:02] <nixternal> neversfelde: kubuntu-socialdesktop - that should disable the system, therefor causing the person to go outside and be social :)
[17:02] <apachelogger> neversfelde: yus!
[17:03] <neversfelde> :D
[17:03] <apachelogger> nixternal: that is a good idea too
[17:03] <apachelogger> then again
[17:03] <apachelogger> how do they watch entertainment videos?
[17:03] <nixternal> there should just be IRC and that's it
[17:03] <nixternal> what is social about that?
[17:03] <apachelogger> like when they failes socializing with the targetted sex and weren't successful :P
[17:03] <nixternal> hahaha
[17:03] <nixternal> hahahahaha)*$#)*@#)*@
[17:03] <nixternal> it took me a second to catch that
[17:04] <apachelogger> right
[17:04] <apachelogger> uh
[17:04] <apachelogger> big d and the kids table - hell on earth
[17:04] <apachelogger> awesome song
[17:07] <apachelogger> neversfelde: so... any feedback regarding synergy?
[17:07] <nixternal> which synergy?
[17:07] <nixternal> the keyboard/mouse thing?
[17:07] <apachelogger> yes
[17:07] <apachelogger> I wrote a plasmoid for it
[17:07] <nixternal> love that app
[17:07] <neversfelde> apachelogger: I have a jaunty laptop and a karmic desktop
[17:07] <apachelogger> oh
[17:07] <neversfelde> I can't test it at the moment
[17:07] <apachelogger> neversfelde: install *scroll*
[17:08] <apachelogger> plasma-scriptenginge-ruby
[17:08] <e-jat> scroll ?
[17:09] <apachelogger> scroll = Me::scrollUp.new(parent)
[17:09] <apachelogger> neversfelde:  on my todo are still: autoconnect at startup: visual feedback as to when the application goes down (i.e. have the icon greyed out when there is no connection) and auto-restart
[17:10] <apachelogger> for that latter I need to test how synergy itself treats that ... cause it got tha funky feature which should restart the binary if it breaks for some reason ... no clue how that is supposed to work with a crash though
[17:10] <e-jat> owh apachelogger sorry :)
[17:11] <apachelogger> in any case the plasmoid could restart after <= 30 seconds (or when it notices that the process died)
[17:11] <apachelogger> sebas: ping.... why would I be storing a ruby plasmoid in svn? playground/base/plasma?
[17:12] <apachelogger> nixternal: you could checkout the code ... it is so wicked I might have to refactor once it's feature complete
[17:12] <apachelogger> somehow that thingy grew far bigger than planed
[17:13] <apachelogger> sebas: s/why/where ;-)
[17:13] <apachelogger> project neon needs a refactor too
[17:13] <neversfelde> hum, I am not sure how to use it :)
[17:14]  * apachelogger meant to make that more clear at some point
[17:14] <apachelogger> neversfelde: either you configure a server which would be the top box, or you configure a client which would be the bottom box
[17:14] <neversfelde> my desktop has mouse and keyboard, so it is the server?
[17:14] <apachelogger> aye
[17:14] <neversfelde> so engage server?
[17:14] <apachelogger> nah
[17:14] <apachelogger> first setu
[17:14] <apachelogger> p
[17:15] <apachelogger> like when your laptop is left of the desktop's screen you want to enter the laptops host name in the left box
[17:15] <apachelogger> neversfelde: http://aplg.kollide.net/screencasts/synergy1.ogv
[17:23] <nixternal> apachelogger: sweet dude, to make that app rock even harder, you should get it to autorecognize other machines running either the synergy client or server and then in the config you can drag and drop them into the location you want them to be
[17:24] <nixternal> and bah ruby!
[17:24] <nixternal> ;p
[17:24] <apachelogger> nixternal: I thought about that
[17:24] <nixternal> that would kick ass dude
[17:24] <apachelogger> but it feels like synergy implements its own protocol
[17:25] <nixternal> especially for the noobs
[17:25] <nixternal> it does and it can autorecognize stuff
[17:25] <nixternal> the app for windows autorecognizes other synergy clients and servers
[17:25] <apachelogger> that means I have to implement that though :P
[17:25] <nixternal> hehe
[17:25] <nixternal> don't be a wimp ;p
[17:26] <vorian> haha
[17:26] <apachelogger> well, the thing is... the linux stuff does not even have a shared lib, so I would have to reimplement by source
[17:26] <apachelogger> so if the protocol changes => bye bye autodiscovery
[17:27] <nixternal> yuriy: apport...I ported it to pykde4...we are looking at the merge now...do we drop apport-qt totally, or do we keep it as a fallback? the apport-qt will still be able to use the new ui as well
[17:27] <nixternal> don't see why we would really need it as a fallback though
[17:27] <apachelogger> discovery remidns me
[17:27] <apachelogger> ONE MOAR TIME
[17:27] <nixternal> except when we break pykde4 ;p
[17:28] <yuriy> I don't really see why we would need to have both
[17:29] <neversfelde> I am not clever enough to use synergy, anyway have to go back to my exam :)
[17:30] <apachelogger> or maybe there is a bug :D
[17:31] <nixternal> the only problem i had with synergy is something would crash, either the client or the server, and even with the --restart flag it wouldn't come back up
[17:32] <nixternal> that has been 6+ months ago
[18:15] <neversfelde> ah, now it works
[18:15] <neversfelde> :)
[18:15] <neversfelde> apachelogger: nice, but where is the difference between the settings dialog and the popup window?
[18:17] <nixternal> nice, 100 paper cuts, all Ubuntu/GNOME...I am proposing 100 Paper Kuts, what do you all think?
[18:18] <shtylman> JontheEchidna: what were the flags to take away the window border? like what krunner did?
[18:18] <jjesse> why duplicate?  just link the kubuntu bugs there
[18:19] <nixternal> jjesse: then at most we could only get 25...100 paper cuts == 100 bugs, and thus far there are more than 70
[18:20] <nixternal> so we get shafted
[18:20] <nixternal> that's why I propose our own
[18:20] <jjesse> so if ther are more then 100 ubuntu/gnome bugs then they will refuse them?
[18:20] <nixternal> yes, they are only doing 100
[18:20] <jjesse> seems silly then
[18:20] <nixternal> they are bugs that would be considered low hanging fruit, used to get people involved
[18:21] <jjesse> but if there are more then 100 low hanging fruit bugs, why not link them
[18:22] <jjesse> or will it be rolling list?  someone closes bug #100, so it frees up a spot to add another bug?
[18:22] <jjesse> lol
[18:22] <nixternal> no, just 100 bugs to fix during the dev cycle
[18:23] <nixternal> easy bug fixes that are annoying
[18:23] <nixternal> this way we can direct more attention that way, or....
[18:23] <jjesse> so we are only allowed to fix 100 easy bugs this dev cycle?  wouldn't it be an easy way to track historically how many low hanging bugs we close each dev cycle ?
[18:25] <nixternal> no, not us, users...this is used to get people involved
[18:25] <nixternal> instead of us wasting our time on easy to fix bugs that are just classified as annoying, we can concentrate on the more serious bugs
[18:27] <apachelogger> neversfelde: the popup will not show full server config
[18:27] <apachelogger> also, not all settings are implemented
[18:27] <jjesse> so is it a rolling list then?  like if there are 100 bugs, a user closes one bug, then can you link another one?
[18:27] <nixternal> we could if we wanted
[18:27] <nixternal> but why roll if they only close 1 bug...the goal is to close the 100 that are on the list for the cycle
[18:31] <jjesse> ok, i see your point, just trying to understand everything
[18:31] <jjesse> i'm a little slow sometimes
[18:33] <nixternal> lol
[18:33] <nixternal> sometimes? :p
[18:34] <nixternal> don't know if i am jiggy with the way they are running the 100 papercuts as a separate project, because you also have to do "Also affects project"
[18:34] <nixternal> I think a tag would be better
[18:39] <sourcemaker> I have installed the new kde beta release...
[18:39] <sourcemaker> now i receive the error message Bridged resource  has no standard resource.
[18:39] <sourcemaker> and aconadi is crashing
[19:00] <jjesse> nixternal: isn't there a lowhangingfruit tag already?
[19:00] <jjesse> i know the doc team discussed it awhile ago
[19:13] <yuriy> nixternal: that was discussed at the session. one of the reasons for having a separate project was that things in the papercuts project have a very different importance from what they do in ubuntu
[19:14] <yuriy> nixternal: as for 100 paperkuts I was thinking the same thing even the name :)
[19:16] <yuriy> I think it's also a separate project so that the DX team could be completely in charge of it
[19:25] <nixternal> jjesse: bitesize
[19:26] <nixternal> yuriy: groovy, do you think we should create a project, utilize kubuntu-100 or something tags, or not even worry about it at all?
[19:26] <nixternal> I am looking through Kubuntu bugs searching for something to classify as a papercut, and I can't find 1
[19:26] <nixternal> all of our bugs are damn crashes or hard stuff to fix :)
[19:26] <yuriy> dunno. what can we get out of something like this?
[19:27] <yuriy> what we won't get, that the 100 papercuts project has, is user testing from canonical
[19:27] <nixternal> hopefully new contributors...we really need to push for new contributors
[19:27] <nixternal> our bugs are out of control
[19:27] <nixternal> we use the community for user testing, as they are the ones using it
[19:27] <yuriy> also the first few bugs i heard them identify are all features that are present in kde and don't have that bug :)
[19:27] <nixternal> ya, I noticed that when going through their bugs :)
[19:27] <nixternal> we freakin' rock dude
[19:28] <nixternal> we don't have easy annoying shit, we have real problems!!! HAHAHAHAHA
[19:28] <jjesse> is it better to have real problems or easy bugs?
[19:29] <nixternal> you know, maybe instead of kicking this off now, maybe we should really start spec'ing an initiative to draw in new contributors
[19:29] <nixternal> our marketing sucks unfortunately
[19:29] <nixternal> this "we are a small tight knit community" thing just doesn't fly, and I think by us always stating that and following it, we might be feeding that perception of a 2nd class citizen
[19:29] <nixternal> or my favorite, blue headed step child
[19:31] <nixternal> sabdfl: thoughts on that? do you think by us Kubuntu folks always touting kubuntu as a "small close knit community" might be part of the reason why there might be that 2nd class citizen perception from some?
[19:31] <yuriy> that was one of the things about the meeting with rick, he stated that we are and want to be a community distro and we confirmed it. which begs the question of what this support is we're supposed to be getting to not be a "2nd class citizen" if we expect to be doing our own thing
[19:31] <nixternal> close knit community is good, but small might be hampering our efforts
[19:32] <vorian> yes
[19:32] <vorian> indeed
[19:32] <vorian> we can be a LARGE knit group
[19:32] <vorian> like a rug
[19:32] <nixternal> hrmm, is it time I put my business degree to use and start thinking up ways to fix our perception and create some sort of marketing initiative...we need to get people involved
[19:33] <nixternal> we have less than 100 people in this channel, and how many would you say are actively involved and contributing to Kubuntu?
[19:33] <yuriy> you have a business degree?
[19:33]  * nixternal says 10, 15 at most
[19:33] <vorian> we could steal the LoCo methods
[19:33] <nixternal> yuriy: yes :)
[19:33]  * yuriy is always surprised by the diversity of educational background in here
[19:33] <nixternal> vorian: don't want Kubuntu LoCos
[19:33]  * vorian has a business degree too
[19:33] <nixternal> that separates us
[19:33] <vorian> nixternal: i didn't say kubuntu locos, but some loco ideas
[19:34] <nixternal> one of these days I just might finish my MBA
[19:34] <nixternal> vorian: ahh, gotcha
[19:34] <vorian> like the get involved stuff
[19:34] <vorian> or, we hammer our LoCo's and force kubuntu down their throats
[19:35] <vorian> ie
[19:35] <vorian> so, say we have a find bug/upstream it/get patch type session with the loco's we live in
[19:36] <vorian> we also should have another kubuntu-dev day or two
[19:36] <yuriy> tutorials day you mean? I think that's planned
[19:37] <vorian> great stuff
[19:37] <vorian> we also should fill as many spots as we can next time there is a "Developer Week"
[19:37] <nixternal> the Chicago LoCo used to be made up of a lot of Kubuntu users previously...now it is mostly Xubuntu people...cheap chicago people and their old machines :p
[19:38] <vorian> lol
[19:38] <nixternal> well of course our LoCo hammer's Kubuntu and I would say 90% of the new users we attract go with Kubuntu now
[19:38] <nixternal> getting users comes with a great community
[19:39] <nixternal> vorian: Dev Week and Open Week
[19:39] <vorian> yep
[19:40] <nixternal> for 4 years now, Open Week has pretty much been Riddell and myself doing the same thing over and over
[19:40] <nixternal> 3 years
[19:40] <vorian> didn't open week already happen though?
[19:40] <nixternal> or however long it has been around
[19:40] <nixternal> yes, but another open week will happen in less than 6 months time
[19:40] <vorian> true
[19:40] <nixternal> there are 2 a year
[19:40] <vorian> dev week is still to come
[19:41] <nixternal> ok, I am going to hammer out some ideas today and get something set up where we can fill out ideas and what not and then start spec'ing the stuff and doing the work
[19:41] <vorian> cool
[19:42] <nixternal> with dev week, we should have at least 1 Kubuntu Packaging Session, and then at least 3 developer/coding sessions
[19:42] <vorian> if each of us finds just one person, just one, we'll double in size
[19:42] <nixternal> we will go to 20! :p
[19:42] <nixternal> and they find a person
[19:42] <nixternal> this sounds like a triangle scam
[19:42] <vorian> that's the Amway Way™
[19:42] <vorian> ha
[19:42] <nixternal> hahah, exactly what I was talking about :)
[19:42] <nixternal> triangle scam
[19:42] <nixternal> or shams
[19:43] <vorian> yus
[19:43] <vorian> can we steal jtate or some other dude from foresight?
[19:44] <vorian> i think we can convince etank to join the dark-side
[19:46] <nixternal> int is the only one doing kde stuff for foresight
[19:46] <vorian> eeek
[19:46] <nixternal> int works, or worked for, rPath
[19:46] <nixternal> jtate was helping and still might be, but i don't think he is with rpath anymore
[19:46] <vorian> yowzer
[19:46] <nixternal> i haven't paid attention there
[19:47] <nixternal> I tried to help for a little bit and it was fun for a while
[19:47] <nixternal> but it just seemed like it wasn't going anywhere fast
[19:47] <nixternal> conary was fun to package for, but using it to install and update was painful at best
[19:48] <nixternal> they tout the whole recipe file which is great (ie. same thing as a .spec file for RPMs) but it forced people to learn and use Python
[19:48] <vorian> yeah
[19:48] <vorian> i have a few packages in foresight
[19:48] <nixternal> honestly if it weren't for conary, I probably still wouldn't be messing with python
[19:48] <vorian> it's painfully slow
[19:49] <nixternal> i have/had like 50 maybe
[19:49] <vorian> PAIN
[19:49] <nixternal> I did 5 packages in 30 minutes the night I learned how to mook and cook :)
[19:49] <vorian> haha
[19:49] <nixternal> heh, I have/had packages in pretty much every distro out there
[19:50] <vorian> hmm
[19:50] <nixternal> CentOS, openSUSE, Debian, Mepis (we all have packages in Mepis, you just might not know that), Foresight
[19:50] <nixternal> Gentoo I have nothing though
[19:50] <vorian> I met the Mepis dude at OLF a couple years back
[19:50] <nixternal> hehe, I have known warren for a few years
[19:51] <nixternal> I was working on mepis before I came to Kubuntu
[19:51] <nixternal> how mepis is as strong as it is is beyond me
[19:51] <nixternal> warren was the only one allowed for the longest time to do packaging in mepis
[19:51] <nixternal> and getting the source files a long time ago were a pita
[19:51] <nixternal> they would linke to our archives sometimes :)
[19:52] <nixternal> I think warren might be more hillbilly than you vorian
[19:52] <nixternal> I would put warren and ben collins in the hillbilly boat together :)
[19:52] <nixternal> since they are both in west virginia
[19:52] <vorian> well, I did grow up in Arkansas - I usually win those argments
[19:52] <vorian> arguments too
[19:52] <nixternal> oh wow
[19:53] <nixternal> where at? Pocohontas?
[19:53] <nixternal> little rock isn't hillbilly
[19:53] <vorian> na, Bentonville
[19:53] <nixternal> go WalMart!
[19:53] <vorian> Very northwest corner
[19:53] <vorian> haha, yeah
[19:53] <nixternal> I know where it is
[19:53] <nixternal> my sisters are from Pocahontas
[19:53] <vorian> yikes, now that's the sticks
[19:53] <nixternal> I am heading to Pocahontas in a couple of weeks actually
[19:54] <vorian> it'll be hot and hot this time of year
[19:54] <vorian> also hot
[19:54] <nixternal> I probably won't get out of the car in fear of catching something the news hasn't reported yet
[19:54] <vorian> haha
[20:12] <nixternal> ok, I am going to drag jono into it and see how he might be able to help...going to put his community skills to the test
[20:12] <nixternal> ;)
[20:25] <JontheEchidna> shtylman:
[20:25] <JontheEchidna>     setAttribute(Qt::WA_TranslucentBackground);
[20:25] <JontheEchidna>     setButtons(0);
[20:25] <JontheEchidna> that was for a KDialog
[20:37] <nixternal> isn't that a hack though?
[20:38] <nixternal> can't you just use Qt.SplashScreen
[20:45] <nixternal> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RichardJohnson/KubuntuInitiative  <- vorian ... that's what I come up with in 5 minutes :)
[21:18]  * vorian looks
[21:25] <Quintasan> ARGH
[21:25] <Quintasan> anyone can send files over bluetooth using kbluetooth?
[21:26] <Mamarok> Quintasan: works only one way for me
[21:27] <Quintasan> Mamarok: from PC to deivce?
[21:27] <Quintasan> s/deivice/device
[21:27] <Mamarok> Quintasan: yes
[21:27] <Quintasan> lucky
[21:33] <Mamarok> are there problems with the 4.2.90 packages? I didn't have any when I upgraded, but someone in #kubuntu has 30 packages held back...
[21:37] <Quintasan> http://imagebin.ca/view/dPxeCoo.html  <-- that is what I get when sending
[21:41] <Quintasan> Mamarok: nope, I just added the repo, refreshed and installed, only some overwrites
[21:41] <Quintasan> http://imagebin.ca/view/BRlnPo.html <-- can someone tell why the panel behaves like this?
[21:42] <Mamarok> Quintasan: well, I had one held back only
[21:51] <vorian> nixternal: i like "I am Kubuntu"
[21:53] <davmor2> Quintasan: Your not hitting it with your trust bloody work hammer hard enough :D
[21:54] <Quintasan> davmor2: and you are reffering to my bluetooth or panel? :P
[21:54] <davmor2> Quintasan: both
[21:55] <davmor2> multi-purpose hammer you can hit as many broken apps with it as you want :D
[21:56] <blizzz> i hate "i am asdfasdf". until now i am germany  and i am pope. at least in germany it is worn out.
[21:56] <Quintasan> davmor2: too bad it doesnt work on kdebluetooth :<
[22:15] <ghostcube> hmm i updated a box from a friend to 4.2.90 and crashed it :D
[22:15] <ghostcube> kde bahaves a bit strange
[22:17] <ghostcube> so i will wait -_-
[22:18] <shtylman> JontheEchidna: I tired that and it gives me an AttributeError at runtime (with python) :( ...
[22:18] <shtylman> *tried
[22:34] <Riddell> doods
[22:34] <Riddell> I hope you're missing me
[22:34] <yao_ziyuan> oxygen-molecule has emerged as a gtk+ theme engine that resembles the kde4 oxygen style much better than qtcurve/gtk2
[22:34] <yao_ziyuan> http://kde-look.org/content/show.php/Oxygen-Molecule+KDE+%26+GTK%2B+unified+theme?content=103741
[22:37] <Riddell> ryanakca, apachelogger: can you update the 4.3 beta story to point to the kubuntu-ppa/backports repository (assuming it's all compiled now)
[22:39] <Tonio_> hum Riddell should we patch digikam and gwenview to require kipi-plugins via update-notifier ?
[22:39] <Tonio_> since that's too big to fit on the cd....
[22:40] <JontheEchidna> plus it needs the gtk libgpod for the ipod plugin
[22:40] <milian> lex79: the backported kdebase does not contain any kdebase-dev - can you fix that? (backported to jaunty)
[22:41] <Riddell> Tonio_: can do yes
[22:41] <Riddell> did alpha 2 hapen/
[22:41] <Riddell> ?
[22:44] <milian> ouh theres kdebase-workspace-dev - is that the new one?
[22:44] <milian> but why does it contain a .so
[22:44] <milian> klsofwidget (or similar)
[22:46] <milian> it also seems to contain libkephal.so
[22:46] <milian> looks like kdebase-workspace-dev is broken
[22:47] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'm right now packaging kpackagekit... all packagekit 0.4 branch is on the packagekit ppa if you wanna test
[22:51] <milian> lex79: if you need more input from my side let me know, quassel will let me catch up. I'm going of to sleep now though
[22:51] <milian> by all
[22:53] <Riddell> Canonical wanting to hire KDE developer.  as blogged on kdedevelopers.org
[22:54] <milian> one other thing: if kdebase-dev is not there anymore, kde-devel meta-package has to be adapted
[22:59] <lex79> JontheEchidna: should I backport kde-devel from karmic?
[23:00] <JontheEchidna> lex79: it's in -experimental
[23:01] <lex79> JontheEchidna: old experimental? in the new one I don't see it
[23:03] <JontheEchidna> meta-kde?
[23:05] <lex79> JontheEchidna: I don't understand...the pckage shoul be named kde-devel
[23:05] <lex79> *package
[23:05] <JontheEchidna> meta-kde builds kde-devel
[23:05] <JontheEchidna> just like kdebase-workspace builds the systemsettings package
[23:06] <lex79> ah...true :)
[23:09] <lex79> JontheEchidna: to upload in backport, bump depends is need for you?
[23:17] <_Groo_> hi/2 all..
[23:18] <lex79> ok, uploaded to backports
[23:40] <ryanakca> Riddell: sure
[23:41] <Tonio_> Riddell: I have another cmake issue I haven't been able to figure out with kpackagekit <IP_ADDRESS>
[23:42] <Tonio_> Riddell: I must say I don't knew exactly how to investigate, so in case you wanna help...
[23:42] <ryanakca> Riddell: Also, do you think I should get the new appearance setup for 5.6 or should I port the existing theme to Drupal 6.0 and then get the new appearance set up then? Matt says that if we have the theme ready, we'll have 90% of the work for switching to Drupal 6.0 done...
[23:43] <Tonio_> Riddell: you can find all packagekit required packages on lauchpad.net/~packagekit
[23:43] <Tonio_> the concerned ppa is 0.4.x branch


[10:36] <tdr112> how did you all get on
[10:37] <slashtom> grand, there were 5 of us yesterday
[10:40] <ebel> yo yo
[11:02] <tdr112> good stuff
[20:33] <infoturtle> hey all, I'm moing house all this week and it's mostly in the evening I'll be doing it. If I get a link for someone could you proxy for me as I had to get onto the miLK labs here about UGJ
[20:33] <infoturtle> *moving
[20:33] <infoturtle> for the meeting this week, sorry, didn't finish what I was talking about
[20:35] <infoturtle> http://groups.google.com/group/limerick-hackerspace/browse_thread/thread/5a63ceb814efbc13 I'll just leave that on record anyway
[20:59] <czajkowski> aloha
[21:02] <infoturtle> hey czajkowski


[00:14] <daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/8n10wp6k8mapf5h/VID_20140815_010649.mp4
[00:14] <daftykins> my cat is kinda driving me bananas
[00:15] <daftykins> trying to teach her to come inside with this electric flap
[00:49] <diddledan_> boh yakasha
[00:50] <diddledan_> !@
[00:50] <diddledan_> I got ubuntu chromium extensions running in google's official release by symlinking /usr/share/chromium to /usr/share/google-chrome
[00:53] <daftykins> O_O
[00:53] <daftykins> you sneak!
[00:53] <diddledan_> oh dear, cliff richard is in the spotlight for sex offences now?
[00:54] <diddledan_> there's going to be no celebrity from the 80s left
[00:58] <daftykins> diddledan_: i know :/
[00:59] <daftykins> diddledan_: lucky he's not in a death penalty US state, else he'd be more than wired for sound :/
[01:02] <daftykins> diddledan_: this is pretty cool, i once got someone to use UPnP to open a port on a router they had no access to
[01:02] <daftykins> this persons friend has the same issue, so i started looking into UPnP command line only clients
[01:03] <daftykins> miniupnpc is the winner, it's able to list me my forwarded ports
[01:03] <daftykins> now i just need to work out how to make it ask for another to be opened :>
[01:04] <daftykins> oh wow
[01:04] <daftykins> you can get line stats over upnp
[01:04] <daftykins> !
[01:04] <diddledan_> there's a *d version for linux-based routers (whether that be wrt or pc-in-the-cupboard)
[01:04] <daftykins> yarr, i saw the package :)
[01:04] <diddledan_> so that is the server end of the protocol whereas the *c is the client
[01:04] <daftykins> MaxBitRateDown : 45600000 bps (45.6 Mbps)   MaxBitRateUp 11171000 bps (11.1 Mbps)
[01:05] <diddledan_> nice
[01:05] <daftykins> that's line only though, i'm provisioned 40/5 :<
[01:05] <diddledan_> https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/--PicQp6clqs/U-LVh_VWrkI/AAAAAAAAf2U/9jb9_pZhJmM/w640-h480-no/2014%2B-%2B1
[01:05] <daftykins> cool it can do it though as the web admin doesn't show that
[01:05] <daftykins> still that good huh? :D
[01:05] <diddledan_> I wonder what mine reports
[01:06] <diddledan_> I'm on an 80/20
[01:07] <daftykins> do you have cable or xDSL on a phone line?
[01:08] <diddledan_> looks like the command to open a port is "upnpc -a <IP_ADDRESS> 80 80 tcp" <-- internal-ip internal-port external-port protocol
[01:09] <diddledan_> it's an FTTC phone-line-based DSL
[01:09] <diddledan_> the sky fttc running on bt's infinity infra
[01:09] <daftykins> ah yeah, do you have the white Huawei BT branded modem in front on the line itself?
[01:09] <diddledan_> yup
[01:10] <diddledan_> HG612 if memory serves
[01:10] <daftykins> indeed :D i've got one of those modded with the Huawei firmware
[01:10] <diddledan_> I could close my laptop and pick it up to verify
[01:10] <diddledan_> the box is directly behind my laptop
[01:10] <diddledan_> about 2.5 feet from me
[01:10] <daftykins> you can make it do lovely line stat graphs
[01:10] <diddledan_> nice
[01:11] <daftykins> also turn it into a full NAT router :>
[01:11] <daftykins> though obviously no wifi then
[01:12] <diddledan_> looks like the sky router's upnp doesn't list maxbitrates
[01:13] <daftykins> awww
[01:13] <diddledan_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8049743/
[01:14] <daftykins> i guess it doesn't know since it's an intermediary device
[01:14] <diddledan_> maybe
[01:14] <daftykins> the one my values are coming from are actually my ISP supplied all-in-one device
[01:14] <diddledan_> actually the sky web admin shows the speed
[01:15] <daftykins> provisioned vs. line though?
[01:15] <diddledan_> this is what the webadmin shows: http://paste.ubuntu.com/8049762/
[01:16] <daftykins> yarr thems separate to the line stats
[01:53] <diddledan_> lol @ popey's photo: https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-w3vpw56wvIs/U-bB9W4FWTI/AAAAAAAArs0/PmesW_Dt2PI/w1335-h1001-no/IMG_4219.JPG <-- as seen on youtube
[01:54] <diddledan_> for when you're not famous enough to be "as seen on TV"
[01:54] <daftykins> XD
[01:55] <diddledan_> o_O if you have a long piece of string, the label says, you could strangle yourself with it - string not included
[01:56] <diddledan_> so is that like when you're looking for jeans and the label says "risk of suffocation if you leave the space shuttle during flight"
[01:58] <daftykins> lmao
[01:59] <daftykins> they totally look like Haribo to me
[01:59] <daftykins> i'd be half way through a packet before asking what they are
[01:59] <diddledan_> lol
[01:59] <diddledan_> yeah there is that
[02:09] <diddledan_> lol, I like: https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-T6LHdOlIg-A/U-YOjuVATKI/AAAAAAAArpQ/zACHhC9MlEQ/w601-h1001-no/device-2014-08-09-130121.png
[02:10] <diddledan_> I wonder what logic it uses to determine the existance of existance
[02:14] <daftykins> perhaps a quick curl!
[02:14] <daftykins> wow, Dust - An Elysian Tale is really a seriously impressive game
[02:14] <daftykins> especially for being made by one guy
[05:56] <mapps>  this bloody drink is gonna kill me eh
[07:00] <smittix> Moaning
[07:55] <OERIAS> Do ops keep a channel log of this channel?
[07:56] <shauno> it's logged publicly, link is in the /topic  (This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com )
[08:14] <popey> Morning all
[08:16] <shauno> o/
[08:24] <davmor2> Morning all
[08:25] <davmor2> JamesTait: what day is it today?
[08:29] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[08:29] <smittix> ;;o/
[08:29] <smittix> \o/
[08:30] <bigcalm> Yeah, I'm excited to see me too
[08:30] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy Relaxation Day! :-D
[08:31] <JamesTait> Also, happy Men's Grooming Day!
[08:31] <foobarry> my son asked me to shave today
[08:31] <foobarry> stubble itched when i kissed him goodbye for work
[08:31] <JamesTait> (That's a Men's Grooming Day that I hope will be happy, not a Grooming Day for happy men).
[08:33] <JamesTait> My youngest told me I need to grow my beard longer, so I can "be a smart guy".  My wife was not impressed.
[08:34] <JamesTait> I casually ignored the insinuation that I'm not already a "smart guy", just because he gave me an excuse to grow my beard.
[08:35] <JamesTait> "Well, you're always telling me I should do more things the kids want me to do...."
 She'd have me shave every day. I just lack the willpower
[08:36] <bigcalm> I did shave last night, so that made her happy
[08:37] <JamesTait> I shave every other morning.
[08:38] <Myrtti> dsample looks like 15 year old without at least a stubble
[08:38] <Myrtti> so I don't mind when he doesn't shave
[08:38] <JamesTait> I keep my top lip trimmed, but I've been trying to grow my chin fuzz.
[08:44] <bigcalm> I do look younger once shaved. Thankfully, not too young: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bigcuthy/14464905040/
[08:45] <bigcalm> I think that my eyebrows turning white helps me look old
[08:54] <popey> \o/ I can haz face fuzz
[08:55] <popey> kids complain at bed time "daddy, you need a shave"
[08:55] <bigcalm> I'm jelly
[08:55] <bigcalm> Though, what do the kids make of it?
[08:55] <popey> a hat, or a broach or a pterydactil
[08:56] <bigcalm> Of it, not with it :P
[08:56] <bigcalm> Argh, I'm trying to remember what that was from. I can see the bloke doing the actions
[08:57] <bigcalm> Airplane
[08:57] <foobarry> bigcalm looks somehow familiar
[08:57] <bigcalm> \o/
[08:58] <bigcalm> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8oAQOvOEXY
[08:58]  * bigcalm hugs popey for bring such joy to this Friday morning
[08:58] <bigcalm> foobarry: I do?
[08:58] <Myrtti> I hate that film
[08:58] <bigcalm> foobarry: I am the one in the suit, not the green dress
[08:59] <bigcalm> Awwww
[08:59] <popey> lost count of the number of times I've watched that film
[08:59] <popey> took a vhs tape with it on to school. used to watch it in the lunch breaks
[08:59] <Myrtti> http://imgur.com/gallery/zxel35t/comment/250700674
[08:59] <popey> 25 years ago!
[08:59] <Myrtti> link related.
[09:00] <Myrtti> I should check in
[09:00] <Myrtti> blaah
[09:07] <bigcalm> Check into what?
[09:07] <Myrtti> flight
[09:09] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[09:13] <Myrtti> whee finally my CoolComponents order shows properly up on RoyalMail website \o/ yay birthday presents!
[09:25] <bigcalm> tree -ando tree.txt --dirsfirst --charset ansi
[09:25] <bigcalm> Oh, this isn't twitter, is it?
[09:26] <Laney> #whoknows
[09:33] <bigcalm> Oh god
[09:33] <bigcalm> My boss just wrote "@iain" within an email to our team to direct a question at me
[09:33]  * bigcalm cringes
[09:33] <SuperMat1> :(
[09:41] <davmor2> popey: man your old
[09:41] <Myrtti> how bad is it when I don't want to tot up the value of all four Arduino related orders?
[09:42] <davmor2> you're even]
[09:43] <davmor2> JamesTait: I don't want to groom so I'll go with the happy and relaxing which I'll be doing after Lunch :)
[09:45] <davmor2> anyone else having their widows bombarded by these things http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_stink_bug
[09:47] <bigcalm> Not here
[09:47] <Myrtti> windows?
[09:47] <Myrtti> we just had thrips
[09:48] <Myrtti> stink bugs atleast in Finland have a tendency of ruining whatever berries you're picking
[09:49] <davmor2> I keep hearing this loud clunk and it's one of those bugs crashed into the window and stood there.
[09:52] <smittix> Does anyone know of any issues in the past with encrypted installs causing problems with nvidia drivers?
[09:52] <smittix> I'm wondering if it's that thats causing me issues.
[09:53] <smittix> davmor2: I have tons of them in my garden. Never knew they were called Stink bugs
[09:59] <awilkins> Encryption shouldn't matter to nvidia drivers.
[10:00] <awilkins> Unless they do something stupid that interacts with the bits of the kernel related to encryption
[10:01] <directhex> never heard of such an issue
[10:01] <bigcalm> directhex: how's the new keyboard?
[10:02] <directhex> tactile switches are weird
[10:03] <bigcalm> How so?
[10:03] <Myrtti> AND TODAY my sister's computer offers an update to 14.04.1, of all days during my two week visit.
[10:03] <Myrtti> goddarnit
[10:03] <popey> ☻
[10:03] <popey> yeah, a few people in my lug mentioned it yesterday
[10:04] <bigcalm> I've gone from a unicomp to mx brown keys. The biggest difference for me is that I don't have to apply so much effort in typing
[10:04] <popey> so you could edit the releases file and tell it not to offer upgrades
[10:04] <popey> then she wont see it and you can update when you next visit
[10:04] <Myrtti> my sister doesn't run upgrades anyway
[10:04] <Myrtti> I do it over ssh
[10:04] <bigcalm> So do the realease-upgrade over ssh ;)
[10:04] <popey> yeah, wuss ㋛
[10:04] <Myrtti> that's risky
[10:05] <popey> yeah, i haven't updated my mums from 12.04 to 14.04 yet
[10:05] <Myrtti> but let's say I'd edit a file
[10:05] <popey> not sure I will
[10:05] <Myrtti> which file would that be? ㋛
[10:05] <popey> /etc/update-manager/release-upgrades
[10:05] <popey> set prompt=never
[10:06] <Myrtti> thanks
[10:06] <Myrtti> done just for my sanitys sake
[10:06] <popey> wise
[10:07] <Myrtti> thunder borked her modem in June and there was absolutely nothing I could do to any of her problems for a few months
[10:08] <Myrtti> I've set up the port forwards now so there is atleast a theoretical possibility I could do something
[10:11] <awilkins> Mum has a port forward and a dynamic DNS address :-)
[10:11] <awilkins> Launchpad has a group for "My mum runs Ubuntu!"
[10:12] <Myrtti> yeah, I've got a dyn updater script on my sister's computer too. Doesn't help when the modem goes bonk.
[10:12] <awilkins> Maybe it should also have a "My mum has a dynamic DNS address!"
[10:14] <popey> i removed my mums dyndns
[10:14] <popey> i have prey installed on her machine, it checks in with my webserver every 10 mins, so easy to find her IP
[10:14] <popey> home made dyndns ☻
[10:15] <diplo> Do you pay for prey popey ?
[10:15] <Myrtti> I'm using dy.fi
[10:15] <popey> diplo: PAY!? no
[10:15] <popey> its in the repo
[10:15] <popey> Helps that mum lives 1.0 miles away https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/Stourhead+Close/Coleford+Close,+Mytchett,+Camberley+GU16+6DX,+UK
[10:16] <Myrtti> popey: could you go knock on the Jubilee sorting office door and demand that they'd sort my CoolComponents package quicker
[10:16] <popey> heh
[10:18] <Myrtti> dsample ordered some from Maplin, some from CPC/Farnell, I did my own orders from CoolComponents and Amazon
[10:19] <Myrtti> end result: all the Arduino Lilypad/Adafruit Flora stuff \o/
[10:19] <Myrtti> well, not quite
[10:19] <Myrtti> but enough
[10:21] <popey> busy weekend then
[10:22] <diplo> popey, I just remember when I last looked it was limited to a certain amount of devices ? 2 or so ?
[10:22] <davmor2> Myrtti: can we expect a super arm computer anytime soon?  Are you calling it skynet?  It's about that time right :)
[10:24] <popey> davmor2: i dont use prey services, just the program, pointed to my own webservice
[10:24] <diplo> ah right
[10:24] <diplo> I may look at it again at some point
[10:24] <popey> i have 10 machines all pointing to a specific domain I own
[10:25] <popey> I just tail the webserver logs to see my machines checking in
[10:25] <davmor2> popey: was that really meant for me?
[10:25] <popey> what do you think? ☻
[10:26] <davmor2> popey: with you I never know, you're too weird :P
[10:27] <popey> thank you.
[10:27] <Myrtti> davmor2: you can expect a hat and a wedding dress, at some time in next two years.
[10:28] <popey> ʘ‿ಠ
[10:28] <davmor2> Myrtti: oh nice
[10:28] <davmor2> Myrtti: all lighty up and spangly
[10:29] <shauno> that's what I did with prey .. knocked together some php that accepted its posts
[10:29] <davmor2> popey: see that's the look I see on your face too often :D
[10:30] <Myrtti> you can imagine some kind of laura cowen's twitter christmas tree rolling down the isle
[10:30] <Myrtti> aisle, even
[10:42] <bigcalm> directhex: I now have a ratio of 123 on StephensonsRocket93plus1.iso. Is this image still relevant?
[10:43] <directhex> i reckon no.
[10:44] <bigcalm> Last Activity: 8  hours ago
[10:44] <bigcalm> That's a surprise
[10:54]  * smittix is waiting for Beer o Clock
[10:55] <davmor2> smittix: it's Saturday in New Zealand if that helps?
[10:56] <smittix> It doesn't help but thanks anyway heh
[10:56] <smittix> Only 4 hours to go so it isn't too bad.
[10:57] <popey> oh my gosh these look amazing http://imgur.com/a/LK7Tl#0
[10:58] <bigcalm> 4 hours?!
[10:58] <smittix> bigcalm: Aye!
[10:58] <bigcalm> Bah
[10:58] <bigcalm> 6+ for me
[10:58] <bigcalm> popey: top one from ep 7?
[10:58] <smittix> I started at 5am today too.
[10:58] <bigcalm> Fair enough
[10:59] <popey> ya
[10:59] <smittix> popey: Top one looks very sweet#
[11:00] <smittix> Speaking of drinking, A polish friend bought me some Polish hazlenut vodka to try.
[11:00] <bigcalm> smittix: bottom one is from ep 4
[11:00] <bigcalm> "aren't you a little short to be a storm trooper?"
[11:00] <smittix> heh
[11:01] <popey> looks very agressive
[11:01] <bigcalm> It does
[11:01] <bigcalm> They've done a good job with it
[11:02] <directhex> bigcalm: my wife and i have the same keyboard, other than the switches, so it's a proper 1:1 comparison
[11:02] <directhex> bigcalm: the feel of red vs brown is totally different
[11:02] <smittix> These also look nice heh http://imgur.com/a/Hj9Vb
[11:03] <bigcalm> directhex: I went for brown because of the difference I could see when looking at reviews using animated gifs. Which do you prefer?
[11:03] <directhex> i don't know. they're different. it'll take me a while to get used to it
[11:04] <directhex> generally, gamer keyboards have linear switches and typist keyboards have tactile switches
[11:04] <bigcalm> http://lifehacker.com/how-to-choose-the-best-mechanical-keyboard-and-why-you-511140347 - scroll down to 'Get to Know Your Switches'
[11:06] <ali1234> none of those reflect how the model m worked
[11:07] <directhex> none of them use a buckling spring, no
[11:07] <directhex> the mx green is probably the closest in actuation force and feel, though
[11:07] <directhex> also noise
[11:08] <awilkins> The most important reason you'd use a mechanical keyboard is not there
[11:08] <ali1234> the buckling spring system also used a membrane, like all cheap keyboards today
[11:08] <awilkins> Nostalgia? PAH!
[11:08] <ali1234> and not individual metal contacts
[11:08] <awilkins> ali1234, USES... it's not dead... yeah, but the means of touching the membrane is the different
[11:09] <ali1234> eh, not really
[11:09] <directhex> topre switches are also hybrid mechanical-membrane
[11:09] <awilkins> Standard membrane keyboards are a glorified TV remote
[11:09] <directhex> but those are rare and expensive
[11:09] <bigcalm> I'm happy to sell my 2 unicomp keyboards if you want buckling spring keys
[11:09] <ali1234> really the only diffeence is the model m had a metal spring. cheap keyboards today have a rubber bubble that buckles instead
[11:09] <bigcalm> I should add that both unicomp keyboard are PS2
[11:10] <awilkins> Which leads you to the most important reason to use mechical keyboards - the rubber dome means you have to mash the key harder than necessary because there is no sense of positive contact
[11:10]  * awilkins has 2 PS/2 -> USB adapters
[11:10] <awilkins> Neither of my primary keyboards are USB
[11:10] <ali1234> not true. the rubber dome buckles the same way the springs did
[11:10] <directhex> the model m has a crap keyboard controller. don't try to game on it
[11:10] <ali1234> about the only difference is that there's very little noise
[11:11] <ali1234> yeah the model m has really bad ghosting
[11:11] <awilkins> ali1234, there's not that moment when the spring buckles and the tension reduces
[11:11] <ali1234> but so do all USB keyboards
[11:11] <ali1234> awilkins: yes there is, because the rubber domes buckle exactly like a spring
[11:11] <directhex> there are scales and degrees
[11:11] <directhex> model m is bottom of the pile for ghosting
[11:11] <directhex> any decent usb keyboard does better
[11:11] <ali1234> yeah usb is slightly better with "any 6 keys then nothing"
[11:12] <directhex> it's really not "any six keys"
[11:12] <directhex> on many keyboards you won't make 3
[11:12] <directhex> s/many/most/
[11:12] <ali1234> that's the upper limit of what USB can do... because that's what HID reports can support
[11:12] <ali1234> obviously many don't even manage that
[11:12] <awilkins> ali1234, TYping on a model M now. There is a distinct point at which the key "Gives" and at that point you have made positive contact because there is a hammer at the end of the spring that does the contact
[11:12] <awilkins> With a rubber dome, you have to make contact with the underside of the dome
[11:12] <directhex> yes, that's the upper limit of what HID can do. but most consumer keyboards can't ever rech 6 anyway
[11:12] <awilkins> The dome "gives" before it bottoms out
[11:13] <awilkins> And you have to bottom them out to contact
[11:13] <ali1234> so does the spring on the model m
[11:13] <awilkins> ali1234, When the spring on a Model M gives it HAS bottomed out
[11:13] <awilkins> Because the mechanism on the other end is what does the contact
[11:13] <directhex> my usual quick ghosting demonstration: hold down both shift keys and type "the quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog"
[11:13] <directhex> *both* shift keys at once, with your little fingers
[11:14] <awilkins> ali1234, Because the spring giving is the same thing as contact you can then release the key
[11:14] <ali1234> awilkins: yes, but you can continue to press the key down further
[11:14] <awilkins> With a rubber dome you have to keep pushing for some indeterminate period of time
[11:14] <directhex> e.g. here's a cheap USB keyboard from maplin, "genius" branded: HE QUIC BROWN OX UMP OVER HE Z OG
[11:14] <davmor2> directhex: I lose o and u
[11:15] <ali1234> works with my keyboard, logitech G19
[11:15] <awilkins> ali1234, You _can_ but you don't have to and that's the point ; a skilled typist can use the feel of that to exert the minimum effort, which you can't do with a rubber dome
[11:15] <awilkins> My mother was a legal secretary for decades ; they issued her with a rubber dome keyboard and her finger joint arthritis was really hurting her in the end
[11:15] <directhex> corsair vengeance k70: THE QUICK BROWN FOX JUMPS OVER THE LAZY DOG
[11:16] <awilkins> I got her a mechanical keyboard (ok, a Cherry) and it cleared up significantly in a couple of weeks. Rubber dome keyboards should be kept away from professional typists.
[11:16] <ali1234> yeah, well, model m gave me tinnitus
[11:17] <directhex> you never need to hold both shift keys in the real world, but it's an interesting demonstration
[11:17] <ali1234> what if you're playing pinball dreams?
[11:17] <directhex> real-world example: The Binding of Isaac is not playable on a logitech illuminated keyboard
[11:17] <directhex> you can't move diagonally and shoot, at the same time
[11:17] <ali1234> why not?
[11:17] <ali1234> my logitech passed your test
[11:18] <directhex> moving diagonally means holding e.g. A and W, and holding an arrow key to shoot. in some combinations, the Illiminated doesn't pick up all the events so either you stop moving diagonally and only move horizontally/vertically, or don't shoot, depending on the order you pressed the keys
[11:18] <awilkins> I remember the ZX Spectrum being horrible for that
[11:19] <awilkins> But I can't say I've ever had problems with it on a PC
[11:20] <directhex> binding of isaac is the acid test for a cheapy keyboard with a crap control circuit
[11:20] <ali1234> i'm pretty sure this keyboard reorders keypresses
[11:20] <ali1234> if you type too fast
[11:20] <ali1234> it never happened on my old ps/2 keyboard
[11:20] <bigcalm> Das Keyboard Model S Professional: THE QUICK BROWN FOX JUMPS OVER THE LAZY DOG
[11:20] <directhex> the G19 is a gaming keyboard, i would expect above-average key rollover
[11:21] <directhex> my previous keyboard, a Mad Catz, missed one or two keys iirc
[11:21] <ali1234> yeah i've never had rollover problems with it. just spelling mistakes
[11:22] <ali1234> i want to build my own keyboard
[11:23] <ali1234> i was looking at AVR chips... the old AT90USB had a ps/2 compatibility mode on the USB pins
[11:24] <ali1234> but i can't figure out if this is still supported in the newer revisions. it disappeared from the datasheet. but it was only ever done in software anyway
[11:30] <smittix> Submitted 2 photos to the 14.10 pool \o/
[11:45] <popey> yay
[11:47] <davmor2> I just want a white background with the slogan "Always be yourself, unless you can be a unicorn.....Then always be a unicorn!"
[11:49] <smittix> heh
[11:49] <davmor2> http://www.imagesbuddy.com/always-be-yourself-unless-you-can-be-a-unicorn-then-always-be-a-unicorn-quote-graphic/
[11:50] <smittix> heres one https://www.flickr.com/photos/smittix/8792481875/
[11:53] <davmor2> smittix: why did you set fire to that wood, you're an evil man ;)
[11:53] <smittix> :)
[11:54] <smittix> the other one https://www.flickr.com/photos/smittix/10742521275/
[12:03] <awilkins> Quite like the looks (and feel, from visiting the showroom) of this one : http://www.scan.co.uk/products/corsair-vengeance-k70-mechanical-gaming-keyboard-gunmetal-cherry-mx-blue-switch-%28uk-english%29
[12:04] <awilkins> If I had an epic keyboard disaster today that would probably be what I'd get.
[13:01] <bigcalm> If I don't look at my left hand screen directly, it appears as though a page of white is ever so slightly flickering somehow. Is this an indication that the monitor is on its way out?
[13:02] <popey> yes, give it to me
[13:05] <bigcalm> :|
[13:05]  * bigcalm wants to take the afternoon off
[13:06] <bigcalm> 4 hours to go
[13:09] <popey> I want to go to the park and play with my powerup
[13:09] <popey> i spent a while last night folding paper aeroplanes
[13:10] <popey> all charged up, now just need the weekend and some dry time
[13:11] <foobarry> did you do the recommended planes popey , or your own
[13:12] <popey> they recommend two types
[13:12] <popey> invader and nakamura
[13:12] <popey> i made nakamura ones
[13:22] <awilkins> bigcalm, Is it an LED backlight or a cold cathdode?
[13:22] <awilkins> LED screens adjust brightness by flashing the LEDs for different amounts of time
[13:23] <awilkins> Usually persistence of vision means you don't perceive this
[13:23] <awilkins> The periphery of your vision has a larger rod / cone ratio, which means it's more sensitive to light and has a lower refractory period
[13:24] <awilkins> Which means you perceive flicker more easily in the periphery of your vision than the centre (presumably this is helpful in a world of animals that you want to eat / escape from)
[13:24] <awilkins> So it could just be a normal phenomenon you've not noticed before, or because you reduced the brightness on that monitor recently and thus increased the fraction of time the LEDs are off for
[13:25]  * awilkins has to have 100Hz TVs because 50Hz looks hella flickery to him.
[13:25] <bigcalm> That would make sense. It's a Dell something :D
[13:26] <ali1234> PWM should be at around 15khz, thus not visible (but sometimes audible if the monitor has a cheap PSU - that's why they put it outside the monitor now)
[13:26] <awilkins> 50Hz CRTs also have that realllly annoying flyback transformer whine
[13:27] <bigcalm> DELL E228WFP
[13:27] <awilkins> Cold cathode tubes do flicker a bit sometimes as well
[13:27] <bigcalm> According to nvidia settings
[13:28] <awilkins> I have one with a tube and one with LEDs
[13:28] <awilkins> The tube one flickers a bit when I change resolution settings on occasion
[13:28] <foobarry> i've got lcds coming out of my ears
[13:28] <foobarry> so many getting disposed of at work
[13:28] <awilkins> I think that's caused by resonance waves in the plasma, they usually settle down after a minute
[13:29] <foobarry> eddies in teh space time continuum
[13:29] <awilkins> I've got his sofa.
[13:30] <foobarry> a chesterfield
[13:31] <bigcalm> foobarry: is he?
[13:31] <awilkins> Some unsightly stains though. Looks like rabbit brains.
[14:02] <foobarry> maybe new moto G announced on 4 sep?
[14:12] <smittix> bigcalm: 20mins to go :P
[14:12] <bigcalm> smittix: shush you :P
[14:13] <smittix> I was going to wait until 4 but I've pretty much finished for the day.
[14:17] <popey> i love it when one of the neighbours puts their house on the market, I get to have a good nose inside ☻
[14:17] <popey> http://www.gregjamesestateagents.co.uk/property-search~action=detail,pid=24
[14:19] <foobarry> my mate put his house on the market and a guy came to view
[14:19] <foobarry> he was carrying plastic shopping bags. a bit strange he thought
[14:20] <foobarry> at the end of the viewing, my mate said, are you interetsed in the house
[14:20] <foobarry> he said, oh no, i live across the road and wanted a look around
[14:20] <foobarry> i don't think my friend's jaw closed until after the man had gone inside his own house
[14:22] <popey> haha
[14:27] <bigcalm> Oh god
[14:27] <bigcalm> popey: what I've seen of your house looks nicer :)
[14:27] <popey> haha
[14:27] <popey> thanks
[14:29] <Laney> wow, those pictures are bright
[14:33] <foobarry> popeys walls are all painted ubuntu/sainsburys orange
[14:33] <popey> yes
[15:04] <davmor2> foobarry: and canonical purple as a feature wall
[15:06] <foobarry> and a jono bacon duvet
[15:08] <davmor2> foobarry: it's reversible it says community, community, community on the other side :D
[15:09] <diddledan_> davmor2, wasn't there a video of someone delivering an empassioned "community, community, community" rant?
[15:09] <popey> jono bacon inspirational picture
[15:10] <diddledan_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8To-6VIJZRE
[15:10] <davmor2> popey: hahaha oh yeah must not forget that  :)
[15:10] <popey> http://i.imgur.com/E2Gzh0O.jpg
[15:11] <diddledan_> popey, I like that you took a break from your cuppa-tea/coffee to take that photo
[15:12] <popey> heh
[15:12] <diddledan_> tis a fancy micromaphone
[15:12] <popey> ya
[15:13] <diddledan_> and yes, I like the jono bacon pic too :-)
[15:20] <davmor2> happy friday I'm in our caravan with war of the worlds playing away watching various birds attack the ground with their beaks and fly off and bunnies hopping around.  I may have to invest in a 4g mifi and park at the top of the hill for work though this slow broad band might kill me else :)
[15:34] <bigcalm> Don't work
[15:35] <popey> yeah
[15:38] <davmor2> but popey  I have to find more blockers to upset nik90 you know how I like upsetting developers ;)
[15:39] <popey> heh
[18:14] <popey> ouch http://kitsilanosoftware.wordpress.com/2014/08/13/the-tizen-project-is-broken-we-will-be-spending-some-time-apart-3/
[18:15] <ali1234> heh, so nothing changed then
[18:15] <ali1234> except they swapped nokia for samsung
[18:16] <Myrtti> yup
[18:17] <Myrtti> thats when I finally jumped ship
[18:17] <Myrtti> pattern was too obvious
[18:17] <ali1234> i agree
[18:18] <ali1234> i was only following meego for about a year but it was really obvious that both moblin and maemo had always been this way
[18:19] <Myrtti> maemo was ok.
[18:19] <ali1234> no, it was exactly the same
[18:19] <ali1234> they tried to have a community in a bottle
[18:20] <Myrtti> sure, but there was atleast a genuine attempt
[18:20] <Myrtti> meego was just a fart.in tight jeans
[18:20] <Myrtti> writing on the wall quite early on
[18:21] <ali1234> right from the very start the relationship between nokia and the community was entirely one-way
[18:21] <ali1234> lots of talking, no listening
[18:21] <Myrtti> maybe I am a bit biased. My Finnishness pushing through
[18:22] <Myrtti> I loved what I did for Maemo. Best fulfilling bits of my so far short career, still.
[18:22] <ali1234> it was always a problem of corporate micro-management imo
[18:22] <Myrtti> sure
[18:22] <Myrtti> I'm not saying it wasnt priblematic
[18:23] <ali1234> but the thing was... a lot of people were still defending nokia right up until the end
[18:28] <Myrtti> Finns have an awful lot of NIH,I know
[18:29] <ali1234> that's not even the problem. all the software nokia (or paid to be made) made was great
[18:30] <ali1234> the trouble came from the way they managed the community
[18:32] <Myrtti> I wish Iweren't on my mobile at an airport, I Could wax philosophical over this
[18:32] <ali1234> make loads of promises, fail to deliver, and leave the community manager to deal with the fallout
[18:32] <ali1234> i felt sorry for quim gil
[18:32] <Myrtti> yeah
[18:32] <Myrtti> he is a great guy
[18:32] <Myrtti> knew him from Guadec 06
[18:49] <foobarry> my laptop is hanging for ages after grub and before the ubuntu boot splash :S
[18:49] <foobarry> dieing disk?
[18:52] <directhex> nvidia?
[18:52] <foobarry> intel
[18:52] <foobarry> only recently started happening
[18:52] <foobarry> purple scren, nothing happens for a minute or two
[18:53] <diddledan_> foobarry, check dmesg directly after a successful boot
[18:54] <diddledan_> any timeouts or the like will be in there if it's hardware related
[18:55] <foobarry> there are ata1 timeouts
[18:55] <foobarry> which is cdrom
[18:57] <popey> is there a cdrom in it?
[18:57] <foobarry> .880252] ata1: device not ready (errno=-16), forcing hardreset
[18:57] <foobarry> [   31.880264] ata1: soft resetting link
[18:57] <foobarry> nope
[18:57] <popey> cable
[18:57] <popey> or psu
[18:58] <foobarry> it#s not booting off cdrom
[18:58] <foobarry> and its plugged into the wall (the battery doesn't hold charge)
[18:58] <foobarry> scsi scan: 96 byte inquiry failed.  Consider BLIST_INQUIRY_36 for this device
[18:58] <foobarry> unsure if this is normal error
[18:59] <popey> oh, laptop?
[18:59] <foobarry> yesh
[18:59] <popey> assumed desktop
[18:59] <popey> so maybe the drive is bust
[19:01] <foobarry> popped a dvd in, it works but ata1: slow to respond
[19:02] <popey> google shows a lot of rresults for that
[19:02] <popey> ata1: device not ready (errno=-16)  specifically
[19:02] <foobarry> gonna pop the drive out and boot again..
[19:07] <mapps> dc jack ordered yay
[19:08] <mapps> so either gonna be able to fix it or endup with another useless laptop
[19:09] <foobarry> looks like reseating the cd drive fixed it, thanks chaps!
[19:10] <foobarry> too tired to do any leisure activities toinght :(
[19:14] <foobarry> did anyone watch the programme about the red arrows?
[20:31] <arsen> so latest gen mbp 13' has no intel gpu
[20:32] <diddledan_> o_O
[20:32] <diddledan_> does it have nv or ati instead or is it running off vapour?
[20:32] <arsen> sorry
[20:32] <arsen> that statement was a collection of bad re-writes where i didnt read what i'd already typed..
[20:32] <arsen> what i meant was...
[20:32] <diddledan_> lol
[20:32] <arsen> so latest gen mbp 13' has no NVIDIA gpu
[20:33] <arsen> 15inch does :/
[20:33] <arsen> so thats how they shrank it
[20:33] <diddledan_> yeah the 13 inchers never did have a discrete chip
[20:33] <arsen> oh
[20:33] <arsen> hmph. i want to play games on a 13 :(
[20:33] <diddledan_> or rather I mean the 13 inch retina ones
[20:34] <diddledan_> _some_ of the previous 13 inch models that weren't retina might have occasionally included discrete
[20:34] <arsen> ah
[20:34] <arsen> so i have a dilemma, firstworldproblems... i have a 15" i7
[20:34] <arsen> retina.
[20:35] <arsen> and want to swap to a 13, but no GPU means i hsould probably keep the 15
[20:35] <diddledan_> decisions.
[20:35] <arsen> (its actually a US spec 15, so i want to swap to a UK spec 15 anyway..)
[21:31] <hirectdex> arsen, my work laptop is a 13" mbp
[21:31] <arsen> oh hai hirectdex
[21:31] <arsen> yeah thast what its for basically.
[21:32] <arsen> i think im gona get a 13, and just.. not play games.
[21:32] <arsen> i want to be able to sling it in my bag and cycle with it
[21:32] <hirectdex> so, the thing about modern intel
[21:32] <hirectdex> is it's okay! it is! but it's MASSIVELY resolution-bound
[21:32] <arsen> hmm?
[21:32] <hirectdex> so a game will be much much smoother in maximum detail 720p than low detail 1080p
[21:32] <arsen> oh. interesting.
[21:33] <arsen> i can see this winter's game being Insurgency, kinda fun.
[21:33] <hirectdex> it's a memory bandwidth problem, since it uses your main RAM
[21:33] <arsen> yeah
[21:33] <hirectdex> which is sloooooooooooooooooooow compared to real GPU RAM
[21:34] <arsen> hmm well.. i mean i can (lucky me!) have anything i want
[21:34] <arsen> shame there's no real GPU in the 13 :/
[21:34] <hirectdex> razer blade! not available in the UK :(
[21:34] <arsen> whassat
[21:34] <arsen> ooh
[21:35] <arsen> US only?
[21:36] <hirectdex> http://www.razerzone.com/gaming-systems/razer-blade/
[21:36] <arsen> swish
[21:36] <arsen> i'm in chicago, could get one i guess
[21:37] <arsen> maybe it's a bit leet for the office
[21:37] <hirectdex> of course it is! that's the point ;)
[21:38] <arsen> similar pricepoint to macs
[21:38] <arsen> less ram though.
[22:25] <shauno> curious, can shutdown do a hard down?  reboot without going through init?
[22:26] <shauno> I guess I'm trying to hit the reset button on the front, but remotely.  man shutdown says it can skip init, but with no detail, so I'm not sure if it means the same as I do
[22:38] <arsen> i wasnt aware you could do that, shauno - be interested if you could
[22:38] <arsen> i guess maybe via magicsysrq
[23:14] <shauno> arsen: that was it in the end.  cat>/etc/sysrq-trigger
[23:14] <arsen> yeah, thats the only way i know you can do it - but its not 'via shutdown
[23:15] <arsen> didnt know your reqs :)
[23:15] <shauno> I had a java process that was eating almost all of my ram, and refused to die