[00:51] <douglasawh-work> h00k: well, we pretty much gave up on that project
[00:52] <douglasawh-work> but thanks for reminding me about that project because I just checked to see if this computer was done and it is!
[00:53] <douglasawh-work> time to go home
[17:43]  * twopoin718 is at the MadLUG meeting in Madison, WI
[23:39] <h00k> wedding planning, wedding planning.
[23:39] <h00k> two weeks.


[12:35] <popey> Congratulations on clinging to a rock orbiting our nearest star for another year pleia2 !
[15:17] <mhall119> that sounds like you're congratulating her for not becoming an astronaut :-P
[15:20] <pleia2> popey: thanks, it's getting more difficult every year ;)
[15:45] <svij> happy birthday pleia2 :)
[15:47] <pleia2> thanks svij!
[22:44] <tsimonq2> Happy birthday pleia2!
[22:51] <pleia2> tsimonq2: thanks :)


[14:38] <kamal> hi, I'm looking for an SRU-team member ...  an SRU package in the unapproved SRU queue has been determined to be invalid, so I'd like it de-queued:  fldigi (3.22.04-1ubuntu1) for vivid
[14:57] <stgraber> hmm, so I'm trying to figure out why golang isn't migrating to the release pocket and my britney skills appear too limited for that... update_excuses lists it as a valid candidate and update_output mentions something about vim-gocomplete which seems a bit odd since it doesn't depend on golang and can be co-installed fine (just tried in a wily-proposed container)
[14:58] <stgraber> infinity: if you happen to still/already be around? ^
[15:08] <cjwatson> stgraber: vim-gocomplete depends on vim-syntax-go, which is no longer produced by the latest golang source
[15:08] <cjwatson> cf. https://tracker.debian.org/media/packages/g/golang/changelog-2%3A1.4.2-3 2:1.4.1-1~exp1
[15:09] <ogra_> needs renaming ... vim-gone-complete :)
[15:10] <cjwatson> http://bugs.debian.org/786891
[15:10] <cjwatson> stgraber: I think it just needs gocode to be migratable too
[15:11] <cjwatson> stgraber: which requires gocode not to FTBFS on powerpc, which ISTR is not the only Go-related package with this problem on that arch
[15:13] <tedg> infinity, Were you able to get Mir building on PPC?
[15:16] <stgraber> cjwatson: ah, right, so stuck on that gccgo bug then
[15:16] <stgraber> cjwatson: thanks for the analysis
[15:17] <stgraber> and yeah, a lot of things are failing with recent gccgo on powerpc, doko is aware and looking into this
[15:18] <doko> cjwatson, stgraber: can't find the time for that, so I would propose to remove the powerpc binaries. but then again, I don't know if snappy is needed on powerpc ...
[15:19] <stgraber> and I don't suppose reverting to vivid's gccgo is an option? that one worked fine IIRC
[15:20] <stgraber> (it's not just snappy, this bug also affects docker, lxd, ... so we can certainly live a few weeks without powerpc support, but we can't release 15.10 like that)
[15:22] <doko> I know. I verified that I can build ~rc1 in wily, but, wasn't able to bisect any change which let's this fail on powerpc. even 5.1.0-1 is broken
[15:23] <doko> and for some reason, it works in unstable on powerpc
[16:55] <infinity> doko: Yeah, the part where it works in sid but not wily is driving me batty too.  I was really hoping we'd magically fix it with the binutils merge, but no such luck. :(
[16:56] <infinity> doko: And, in principle, I'm okay with removing ppc Go binaries to get past this, *but* the different results between sid and wily point to something Very Bad going on here, and I'd like to understand what's going on before just handwaving past it.


[12:09] <nixternal> adamant1988: just so you know, Ubuntu will never be commercialized
[12:10] <adamant1988> I know not ubuntu itself will.
[12:10] <adamant1988> wow that was bad
[12:10] <adamant1988> "I know that Ubuntu itself will not"
[12:11] <adamant1988> much better.
[12:11] <nixternal> hehe
[12:11] <gaz00> :)
[12:11] <gaz00> yoda, away...  as long as you can explain it later
[12:11] <nixternal> hmmm
[12:12] <adamant1988> lol
[01:02] <adamant1988> hey all :)
[01:05] <hybrid> hola adamant1988
[01:06] <adamant1988> I should have a friend coming in momentarily
[01:06] <adamant1988> he'd like to help with the projects ^_^
[01:07] <OpticalHeshaki> hi
[01:07] <adamant1988> there he is
[01:07] <adamant1988> hey optical I'll brb man
[01:12] <OpticalHeshaki> so whats up guys
[01:42] <OpticalHeshaki> anyone here?
[01:44] <gaz00> OpticalHeshaki: it's not looking like it
[01:44] <gaz00> been pretty quiet here for a while
[01:45] <gaz00> except for adamant1988  and nixternal about 1.5 hrs ago :)
[01:47] <OpticalHeshaki> lol
[01:47] <OpticalHeshaki> adam wanted me to help i guess
[01:47] <OpticalHeshaki> lol
[01:48] <gaz00> well, sadly, it looks like I'm the only one here.  and I'm not even involved!   ;)
[01:56] <OpticalHeshaki> lol
[01:56] <OpticalHeshaki> well thats cool i guess
[05:36] <adamant1988> hello all.
[05:37] <adamant1988> nixternal you awake
[05:38] <nixternal> i think
[05:38] <adamant1988> lol
[05:38] <adamant1988> well make sure
[05:38] <nixternal> im not pinching myself, so please don't ask ;)
[05:39] <adamant1988> I have a query: How focused is the marketing team on spread ubuntu? are any other projects being pitched around or is that our primary focus?
[05:39] <adamant1988> (I wish we had forums for this instead of a mailing list).
[05:39] <nixternal> there are other projects
[05:39] <adamant1988> Well I had an idea for how we can generate some usefull marketing material (testimonials and such).
[05:40] <nixternal> Spread Ubuntu being the largest right now...but there is the Magazine, Press Team, and whatever other ones you can come up with
[05:40] <adamant1988> and the materials could well be used to create adverts etc.
[05:41] <nixternal> add that to the agenda for this weeks meeting
[05:42] <adamant1988> Why not talk to users from all over the place (america, etc.) find a few that are willing to give out a minimal amount of information about themselves (name (first), age, computing experience) and set get them started with ubuntu and have them blog about their experiences daily, any opinions etc. (we could set the blogs up for them).
[05:42] <adamant1988> we could quote these blogs, use them as official testimonial for adverts etc.
[05:43] <nixternal> somebody has beaten you to the punch
[05:43] <adamant1988> oh yeah?
[05:43] <adamant1988> I figured
[05:43] <nixternal> the anthropology spec
[05:43] <adamant1988> it's a pretty elementary idea, but I didn't know someone had done it.
[05:44] <nixternal> jsgotangco knows more about that also i believe
[05:44] <adamant1988> as long as it's being done I guess lol.
[05:44] <nixternal> well...you can look over the info and see if it is the same, or similar to yours
[05:45] <adamant1988> link?
[05:45] <nixternal> you may be able to collaborate with the guy and put it to use for us
[05:45] <nixternal> he is really doing the work for himself i believe..but we will be open to using it im sure
[05:45] <nixternal> one sec
[05:45] <nixternal> i just asked for it
[05:46] <adamant1988> that could be, I'd be happy to work with him on it.
[05:46] <adamant1988> (I'd also be happy if there were forums to use... the mailing list is hard to keep track of...)
[05:46] <nixternal> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AndreasLloyd   <- he is the person doing it
[05:47] <nixternal> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuFieldwork   <- the actual spec
[05:49] <adamant1988> that doesn't seem quite like what I'm doing
[05:50] <adamant1988> he's gathering numbers, I'm more interested in the opinions and testimonial.
[05:51] <adamant1988> and I'm less interested in the science of it, however useful the data will be, it's the opinions and the 'faces' of these people that would be important for my uses.
[05:54] <nixternal> well, maybe you could still collaborate with him, as he is seeing the 'faces' of the people
[05:55] <nixternal> he is doing all the work in the field
[05:57] <adamant1988> perhaps... I'll make it a point to get in contact with him
[06:04] <adamant1988> hrmmm yeah I'm emailing him now.
[06:51] <adamant1988> hello bimberi
[06:52] <bimberi> hi adamant1988, nice work on that logo!
[06:54] <adamant1988> you like it?
[06:54] <adamant1988> I'm suprised, I didn't think it was very good... but thanks ^_^
[06:55] <bimberi> yep, as i said on-list (David Symons)
[06:55] <adamant1988> ^_^
[06:56] <bimberi> definitely better than my Orange Sunglasses ;P
[06:56] <adamant1988> haha ^_^
[06:57] <adamant1988> I'm just trying to help out
[06:57] <adamant1988> I wish there were forums instead of a mailing list though
[06:57] <bimberi> the Launchpad logo could be just the arrow shwoosh
[06:58] <adamant1988> the arrow needs a lot of work
[06:58] <bimberi> s/logo/emblem/
[06:59] <adamant1988> yeah?
[06:59] <adamant1988> How do you reply on the mailing list?
[06:59] <adamant1988> do you just reply to the person or what?
[07:00] <bimberi> adamant1988: fair enough, i feel that wiki+list+irc is enough myself
[07:00] <adamant1988> yeah, just the forum makes info managment a bit easier than the list IMHO
[07:01] <adamant1988> Bimberi, I had an idea and I want to pitch it to the marketing team but let me throw it at you first
[07:02] <adamant1988> My 'idea' is to get a group of people (however many possible) to start using Ubuntu and blogging their experiences with it on let's say... blogger.  We could use that info for testimonial, in the immediate advertising needs and long term it could be used to determine what the end user needs and does on the computer
[07:02] <OpticalHeshaki> hello?
[07:03] <adamant1988> get a picture and a paragraph on the person, and that will show that Ubuntu for humans is actually being used by humans
[07:03] <adamant1988> and that they are enjoying it.
[07:03] <adamant1988> hey optical :)
[07:03] <adamant1988> Optical do you want to join the marketing team like seriously? because I can give you some instructions on adding yourself to the launchpad etc.
[07:04] <bimberi> adamant1988: i use Evolution, and it has a "List Reply" command (CTRL-L)
[07:04] <OpticalHeshaki> that would be cool
[07:04] <adamant1988> bimberi, it would be nice if I could get a free email account that let me sync to programs like evolution =\
[07:04] <adamant1988> ok optical let me get the link for you
[07:05] <bimberi> adamant1988: by default (reply button) emails from the ubuntu-marketing will go to the sender only
[07:05] <adamant1988> https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-marketing   (just opt to join the team, you'll have to create a launchpad account though)
[07:05] <bimberi> sure
[07:06] <adamant1988> sure what bimberi?
[07:08] <bimberi> adamant1988: i saw that earlier.  It's an excellent idea.  I'm sure that Ubuntu and OSS in general could do with as much usability feedback as possible
[07:08] <bimberi> adamant1988: you might cut down the willing participants right there :)
[07:08] <bimberi> adamant1988: also, what if they hate it?
[07:09] <bimberi> or get frustrated with it
[07:09] <adamant1988> We don't quote them, and the community learns from it.
[07:09] <bimberi> hi OpticalHeshaki
[07:09] <OpticalHeshaki> hi
[07:09] <OpticalHeshaki> im all done registering
[07:09] <OpticalHeshaki> what do i do now
[07:09] <adamant1988> ok the next thing is to get on the mailing list (there is a lot of registering to do )
[07:09] <OpticalHeshaki> lol ok
[07:09] <OpticalHeshaki> im ready
[07:09] <adamant1988> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
[07:10] <adamant1988> Add yourself in there, you will want to create a section just for the marketing team letters because they add up quick.
[07:10] <bimberi> adamant1988: gmail has POP/SMTP capability
[07:10] <adamant1988> bimberi, the way I see it is that ubuntu needs this feedback... if it's bad then obviously Ubuntu has to do something.. If we can't use it for marketing we can use it for learning.
[07:11] <adamant1988> It's a win-win regardless of what is said in the blogs, and we'll have to make sure to get enough people involved that if a few don't like it we have alternatives.
[07:11] <OpticalHeshaki> k done with that
[07:12] <adamant1988> ok the next thing you need to do is register to work with the wiki at ubuntu.com
[07:12] <adamant1988> I *think* it uses your launchpad account.
[07:12] <bimberi> ha, try ubuntu-users for volume :)
[07:12] <adamant1988> Well, my goal is to get to people who HAVEN'T tried ubuntu yet.
[07:12] <Kamping_Kaiser> bimberi, try bzr-dev ;)
[07:12] <OpticalHeshaki> u got a link to that
[07:12] <OpticalHeshaki> adam
[07:13] <adamant1988> ubuntu.com
[07:13] <adamant1988> then click on the wiki tab
[07:13] <adamant1988> and try to login with your launchpad account
[07:13] <bimberi> adamant1988: good or bad it will be useful for marketing, the choice is whether to use it for _promotion_
[07:13] <adamant1988> Yeah, it also tells us a bit about that particular market
[07:13] <adamant1988> what their needs are, and how we can show them that ubuntu meets those needs.
[07:14] <OpticalHeshaki> k im loged in
[07:14] <OpticalHeshaki> what now
[07:14] <adamant1988> I also think we should stop using the word linux, and stop using any other Jargon in our advertising efforts.
[07:14] <adamant1988> Optical you can't really do a whole lot right now, but if you go to the marketing team wiki you can kind of catch up on where the projects are at and all of that.
[07:15] <OpticalHeshaki> yea i figured but what do i do now im logged in and im lost
[07:15] <OpticalHeshaki> lol
[07:15] <adamant1988> you definitely want to consider getting in with the art team as well (but you'll spend a lot of time doing icons and such as well as other stuff)
[07:15] <bimberi> adamant1988: it should kept jargon-minimal yes, do you mean just use Ubuntu.  Linux does have some recognition out there I feel
[07:15] <adamant1988> Linux does but you really have to ask yourself...
[07:15] <adamant1988> the people who don't know Ubuntu is linux, are they going to care?
[07:16] <adamant1988> I'm in that camp of people, if I hadn't come to linux and then ubuntu I wouldn't care that ubuntu was linux based.
[07:16] <OpticalHeshaki> i wanted to be on the art team
[07:16] <OpticalHeshaki> that would own
[07:16] <OpticalHeshaki> were do i go to do that
[07:16] <adamant1988> ok let me find that for you
[07:16] <adamant1988> also join #ubuntu-artwork
[07:16] <adamant1988> i think that's it.
[07:16] <adamant1988> it's a pretty slow channel and they're not doing much art lately
[07:17] <OpticalHeshaki> thats about to change
[07:17] <OpticalHeshaki> :D
[07:17] <adamant1988> haha :)
[07:17] <adamant1988> just be prepared for lots of small graphics work too
[07:17] <adamant1988> icons and such
[07:17] <OpticalHeshaki> thats cool
[07:17] <OpticalHeshaki> is there any oficial way to join the art team
[07:18] <bimberi> adamant1988: i wonder how big that "camp" is? and how to find out?
[07:18] <adamant1988> optical ask in the channel
[07:18] <Kamping_Kaiser> OpticalHeshaki, try launhc pad
[07:18] <OpticalHeshaki> i already did the launchpady thing
[07:18] <adamant1988> bimberi, it's pretty sizable, most everyone that I've gotten to use Ubuntu was just put-off with the word linux.
[07:19] <bimberi> adamant1988: funny, i've had the opposite experience
[07:19] <adamant1988> Yes it uses the linux kernel, and I think that should be noted on the website and such, or in adverts targeted to tech users... but most end-users want something that works without having to research it all.
[07:20] <bimberi> some had even heard that linux was less prone to viruses/spyware etc., which is the main source of pain
[07:20] <adamant1988> A lot of end users think linux itself is an operating system like windows. they're not aware of the distro system
[07:22] <adamant1988> When you say linux it puts ubuntu under a big umbrella with a lot of other distros... I don't think it's our job to promote the use of mepis, suse, and all of those. Just ubuntu.
[07:23] <bimberi> oh yes, can't disagree there.  Just don't thinl that linux needs to be dropped totally (if that's what you're saying)
[07:23] <Kamping_Kaiser> i missed most of this discussion, but its called 'ubuntu linux', how can we not market it as such o_0
[07:23] <adamant1988> I'm just saying it needs to be less pushed.
[07:24] <adamant1988> The website just says Ubuntu...
[07:24] <adamant1988> although the quote is linux for humans (needs changed imo)
[07:24] <bimberi> o
[07:24] <adamant1988> For instance why not make a page of the site about ubuntus technical specs and include that it's linux based and such there?
[07:25] <adamant1988> If people want to know what makes ubuntu up we shouldn't hide it, but we shouldn't be pushing it down their throats either.
[07:26] <Kamping_Kaiser> i dont agree wityh your argument, the quote 'linux ofr human beings' isnt forcing anything down their throat
[07:26] <adamant1988> yeah but then they say "What's linux" and that opens up a whole can of worms right there.
[07:27] <Kamping_Kaiser> 'its a different way of running your computer'
[07:27] <Kamping_Kaiser> bbl. doing stuff
[07:27] <adamant1988> There's a rule for websites called the 3-click rule.  users shouldn't have to click more than 3 times to get to the information they want, apparently that 4th click is a deal breaker for many.
[07:28] <adamant1988> I base a lot of ideals off that rule... things should be made quick and easy as possible... and if we keep saying linux, that's a lot of searching for info that they don't want to bother with.
[07:28] <adamant1988> it shouldn't be hidden, but why make it obvious?
[07:29] <adamant1988> Why can't Ubuntu be it's own OS? (think mac os X).
[07:30] <adamant1988> a lot of people (msyelf included) ignorantly think/thought that linux was an operating system with some kind of a center to it like you could install "Linux" not "Mepis" "Ubuntu" etc.  It just makes users lives a lot easier if they see Ubuntu as an operating system instead of a subset of linux.
[07:31] <bimberi> adamant1988: I can see your point to some extent.  I think what you need to do is come up with alternatives for people to look at.
[07:31] <adamant1988> explain.
[07:32] <bimberi> well an alternative for 'linux for human beings' for a start
[07:32] <adamant1988> Ah.  I think the human beings idea is great.
[07:32] <adamant1988> but it could just be "Computing for human beings" or something
[07:34] <bimberi> Ubuntu has been pretty successful with its formula so far.  But some research into where the take-up has come from - existing linux users / windows users - would be useful
[07:34] <adamant1988> And instead of Ubuntu linux, why not say Ubuntu OS?
[07:35] <adamant1988> I was a windows  user who spent a month researching linux and distro hopping
[07:36] <bimberi> then your POV might be more valid than mine :P
[07:36] <adamant1988> My point of view is probably closer to that of a windows power user/end user.
[07:37] <adamant1988> Most of my ideals for the marketing are for Ubuntu in the home, and Ubuntu for the end user.
[07:38] <adamant1988> Really, I think Ubuntu would go far as a standalone OS, even commercially in boxed sets (which is something I want to see done for Ubuntu, manuals and all).
[07:38] <nixternal> http://home.comcast.net/~nixternal/images/misc/poster/poster1.png
[07:38] <nixternal> draft 1 ^^
[07:39] <adamant1988> Ubuntu has gone a long way as a linux distro... but I am of the opinion that if Ubuntu didn't intentionally place itself in the distro subset it would go farther.
[07:40] <adamant1988> again I use mac os x as the standard for that...
[07:41] <adamant1988> Everyone I talk to would use a mac just to get away from windows, but for the price... Ubuntu could supply that market need.
[07:41] <adamant1988> I know very well that if I could afford it I'd be on a Mac right now.
[07:55] <Burgundavia> adamant1988: the issue with leaving the Linux distro set is that you end up with confusion as to what Ubuntu is
[07:55] <adamant1988> which is why that information should be available if someone wants it
[07:55] <adamant1988> If people don't ask what makes up Ubuntu, why tell them?
[07:56] <Burgundavia> telling people up front is both a help and hindrance
[07:56] <adamant1988> if a market (the server market in particular) is interested in the fact that Ubuntu is linux based, then make sure that they know it.
[07:56] <Burgundavia> I suggest we stay with calling us Linux for now
[07:56] <adamant1988> But the home/end-user market, probaby doesn't care and it just serves to confuse.
[07:56] <adamant1988> I'm actually writing a pretty detailed blog on my opinion on the matter right now
[07:57] <Burgundavia> adamant1988: actually, I would argue not calling LInux would be worse, because that market has some knowledge of Linux
[07:57] <adamant1988> I'm very adamant that Ubuntu could be a great standalone OS, and could fill a very important rule in the market.
[07:57] <Burgundavia> here is how I imagine is playing out:
[07:57] <Burgundavia> Person 1: I have this great OS, called Ubuntu
[07:58] <Burgundavia> person 2: Great, what is that? Is it windows
[07:58] <Burgundavia> ?
[07:58] <Burgundavia> No, it is Ubuntu
[07:58] <Burgundavia> back and forth until person 1 says it is Linux and person 2 says ah!
[07:58] <adamant1988> See, when a person ASKS, they should be told.
[07:58] <Burgundavia> most of them are going to ask
[07:59] <adamant1988> But we shouldn't go "TRY UBUNTU GNU/LINUX based on DEBIAN"
[07:59] <adamant1988> that's 3 names too many.
[07:59] <Burgundavia> we don't say that
[07:59] <Burgundavia> we say Ubuntu, a Linux-based operating system
[07:59] <adamant1988> That's fine because it seperates it from linux by saying it's just based.
[07:59] <Burgundavia> there is only 1 reference to Linux on the front page of Ubuntu
[07:59] <Burgundavia> other places it talks about Ubuntu
[07:59] <adamant1988> But why not say this
[08:00] <adamant1988> "Ubuntu OS" and somewhere in the advert "Based on linux so you know it's stable and secure".
[08:00] <Burgundavia> whoa back up
[08:00] <Burgundavia> ads?
[08:00] <adamant1988> I'm playing this out as an ad
[08:00] <Burgundavia> our cd cases only say Ubuntu
[08:00] <Burgundavia> I am saying: We already refer to Linux is all the right places
[08:00] <adamant1988> Actually they say Ubuntu "linux for human beings"
[08:01] <Burgundavia> we are a variation of Linux
[08:01] <adamant1988> and Mac OSX is a variation of Unix.
[08:01] <Burgundavia> so?
[08:01] <Burgundavia> there is a lot of difference between OS X and FreeBSD
[08:02] <adamant1988> They don't bother parading it unless someone cares enough to look it up, and they're doing better than linux is.
[08:02] <Burgundavia> there is not a lot between Fedora and Ubuntu, for instance
[08:02] <Madpilot> adamant1988, I doubt OSX is doing well merely because they're sort of hiding the fact that they're *nix based...
[08:02] <Burgundavia> OS X is doing well by providing a quality product
[08:03] <adamant1988> No, what I'm saying is they're doing better, and they're not confusing the end users by using jargon like *nix and all that.
[08:03] <Burgundavia> we are not either
[08:03] <Burgundavia> we mention Linux once
[08:03] <adamant1988> My main issue with it is in the 'slogan'
[08:03] <Burgundavia> it is what we are
[08:03] <adamant1988> past that it's not a big issue.
[08:03] <Burgundavia> the biggest perception with Linux is that it is "hard"
[08:04] <adamant1988> or that it's all CLI
[08:04] <Burgundavia> our slogan very effectively helps destroy that
[08:04] <nixternal> thats because osx doesn't have enough *nix in it in the first place
[08:04] <adamant1988> but are we trying to further ubuntu or linux?
[08:04] <Burgundavia> both
[08:04] <nixternal> 2, most osx users have been using mac for more then 10 years also
[08:04] <Burgundavia> we win when Fedora wins, etc.
[08:05] <Burgundavia> we are not competing against Fedora, we are competing against Windows and OS X
[08:05] <Madpilot> nixternal, there ain't no loyalists like Mac loyalists, IME
[08:05] <nixternal> no doubt
[08:06] <nixternal> im glad them loyalists enjoy drm also
[08:06] <Madpilot> heh
[08:06] <Burgundavia> regardless, I see no reason to drop the one reference to Linux in our marketing
[08:08] <Burgundavia> adamant1988: realistically, we are also not changing our slogan at this point
[08:08] <adamant1988> I know I wasn't expecting an immediate change
[08:08] <adamant1988> But I think it should be done at some point.
[08:09] <Burgundavia> I just don't see why. We all win when Linux wins
[08:09] <Burgundavia> think beyond Ubuntu for a sec
[08:09] <Burgundavia> very person using some variant of Linux is a net win for all of us. If they come around and use Ubuntu, that is nice
[08:10] <Madpilot> Burgundavia, umm, s/very/every?
[08:12] <adamant1988> Linux doesn't win as long as the process of switching to it is so difficult.
[08:13] <bimberi> and i'm not saying it should - if someone comes away from windows, tries Ubuntu but then moves on to another linux-based distro then that's great
[08:13] <adamant1988> I'm not a computing idiot by any means and it took me almost a month to find a distro (infact I only found one because dapper released).
[08:14] <Madpilot> adamant1988, in my experience, most people have a fair bit of diffuculty using *any* computer. They don't seem to have much more difficulty w/ Ubuntu than XP or Win98, from what I've seen...
[08:14] <bimberi> Madpilot: +1
[08:14] <adamant1988> No No, I mean the switch
[08:14] <Madpilot> hmm, evidently I can only spell "difficulty" right half the time ;)
[08:15] <bimberi> Madpilot: you are definitely not the worst for typos ;)
[08:15] <adamant1988> Right now people go "I want to switch to linux" then they google it looking for a place to buy it only to find out it's not purchasable half the time.  So they have to wade through the list of distros until they finally download and burn one that they like.
[08:15] <Madpilot> adamant1988, "it took me almost a month to find a distro" already tells me that you know far, far more about computers than 95%+ of the world...
[08:15] <adamant1988> I don't mean actual use difficulty.
[08:16] <bimberi> adamant1988: but if we reduce ubuntu's linux-ness then they won't find it if they search that way
[08:17] <adamant1988> I doubt it would be removed from distrowatch, and the communities would still be talking about it and suggesting it (which is how I came to it)
[08:17] <nixternal> i will tell you this...for me switching to linux was far easier then switching to mac
[08:17] <nixternal> and i did my switch 12 years ago
[08:17] <adamant1988> For me the switch to linux was painful and time consuming.
[08:17] <adamant1988> Dapper stepped in at just the right time.
[08:17] <adamant1988> because I was about to give up
[08:18] <nixternal> if mac is so hell bent on having a portion of bsd's kernel, then why do they hide terminal?
[08:18] <Burgundavia> regardless, most people are not going to go to the effort you took, adamant1988
[08:19] <adamant1988> Burgundavia, exactly my point.. the answer should be VERY easy to find and the switch should be painless
[08:19] <Madpilot> bimberi, don't be shy - we're all speculating madly on highly personal sets of inadequate data :) (at least some of us will admit that, though!)
[08:19] <nixternal> right now im mad because my leather chair i have had for about 10 years just busted to the point where i went flying backwards at 1am and landing in the no man's zone under a desk
[08:19] <Burgundavia> adamant1988: how does not calling Ubuntu Linux help with that?
[08:21] <adamant1988> What I'm saying is it could be set apart... Ubuntu is great and it's gaining fame quickly... I don't see why people couldn't say "Oh I'll try Ubuntu"
[08:21] <adamant1988> When someone says "I'll try linux" without some serious determination they'll probably give up before long.. and I don't think that's how it should be.
[08:22] <Madpilot> adamant1988, most people probably actually start out saying, "I'm sick of XP's viruses and malware!" and slowly move on from there
[08:22] <Burgundavia> +!
[08:22] <Burgundavia> +1, even
[08:22] <Burgundavia> if they are serious, they are going to do research about it
[08:23] <Burgundavia> then they are going to hit our website and if it doesn't mention linux, they are going to be confused
[08:23] <adamant1988> I said that it should be mentioned
[08:23] <Burgundavia> it is
[08:23] <Burgundavia> in our slogan and our generic description
[08:23] <adamant1988> just not placed on the table in plain view, put it in the desk draw.
[08:23] <adamant1988> drawer even.
[08:24] <Burgundavia> what specifics do you mean?
[08:24] <Burgundavia> do you want to drop "linux for human beings"?
[08:25] <adamant1988> I'm saying that if you said "Ubuntu" and didn't bother mentioning Linux, helped make Ubuntu a stand-a-lone os that the site very clearly states is based on Linux.  it might grow faster than if people keep coming to it via the channels of distro watch and linuxquestions.org
[08:27] <adamant1988> It's still linux and people who care to find out will find out, but it just simplifies things a bit more.
[08:27] <Burgundavia> sorry, I don't follow
[08:28] <adamant1988> But then again I'm also the guy who would like to see Ubuntu on shelves at Wal-Mart so I guess I'm not the ideal person for ideas for Ubuntu.
[08:28] <Burgundavia> people will only come from those sites because it is linux
[08:28] <Burgundavia> Ubuntu on the shelves at Walmart is rather useless, unless there is a piece of hardware wrapped around it
[08:29] <adamant1988> In my community it would be worth something, we don't have the best market for computer or even linux around here, and an alternative OS selling at $30 even would become popular quickly.
[08:29] <Burgundavia> not really
[08:29] <bimberi> why?
[08:29] <adamant1988> I'd LOVE to see ubuntu preinstalled on computers here too..
[08:29] <Burgundavia> it has been tried before
[08:30] <Burgundavia> boxed copies of Linux (of any variant) have always sold very badly
[08:30] <Burgundavia> Linux IS NOT just another piece of boxed software people can take home
[08:30] <adamant1988> I'm saying all of this in the eventually pretense
[08:30] <Burgundavia> and yes, that includes Ubuntu
[08:30] <bimberi> it's another distribution channel.  There might be segments well targetted that way.
[08:30] <adamant1988> IMO the market isn't ready for all-free software.
[08:30] <Burgundavia> that has nothing to do with it
[08:31] <Burgundavia> look, all I do all day is sell Linux
[08:31] <Kamping_Kaiser> btw nixternal , like your png :)
[08:31] <Burgundavia> whether it is Ubuntu or DiscoverStation, I run into the same issues
[08:31] <nixternal> ty Kamping_Kaiser
[08:31] <Kamping_Kaiser> :)
[08:31] <adamant1988> Kamping_Kaiser, my towns experience I'm a big linux pusher in the town.
[08:32] <Burgundavia> you know what hurts us more than Linux? OpenOffice
[08:32] <Kamping_Kaiser> adamant1988, you might also bear in mind that changes that work for you wont work for me (maybe etc)
[08:32] <Burgundavia> people are terrified of losing data
[08:32] <Kamping_Kaiser> chaning the slogan for exqmple /does not/ help the way my mates destribute ubuntu
[08:32] <adamant1988> I'm aware that there are different markets and such.
[08:33] <adamant1988> does open office lose data that much?
[08:33] <Burgundavia> no, but people fear it does
[08:33] <adamant1988> Oh, good, I haven't looked into it
[08:33] <Burgundavia> I don't lose sales over Linux, I lose them over OpenOffice
[08:33] <Burgundavia> it is very annoying
[08:34] <bimberi> Burgundavia: Yes!  i'm finding the main weighing up that occurs is viruses/spyware vs perfect MSOffice format compatibility.  The latter is one of the first questions asked and the honest answer is no, not perfect.  Lost
[08:34] <Kamping_Kaiser> i only find oo.o formatting differently to mso, never had data loss thoug
[08:34] <Burgundavia> funny that the most common question I get is what the office suite it, not what the underlying OS Is
[08:34] <Kamping_Kaiser> bimberi, i usualy try and make it into a feature ;0
[08:34] <adamant1988> oh so there's data loss in the ms format compatibility?
[08:34] <Madpilot> Kamping_Kaiser, some people count "loss of perfectly tweaked fiddly formatting" as "data loss"... I've run into that myself w/ OOo
[08:34] <Burgundavia> note that Discoverstation hides it linux roots
[08:34] <nixternal> not data loss, format loss
[08:34] <Kamping_Kaiser> adamant1988, there was with 1.x, i havent tried on 2
[08:34] <Burgundavia> adamant1988: there maybe. It is mostly a fear thing
[08:35] <nixternal> my resume done in word looks horrible in OOo
[08:35] <Kamping_Kaiser> Madpilot, true. my current work has never really invovled oo.o, so i have no vested intrest in it. tafe will probably change that :|
[08:36] <Kamping_Kaiser> nixternal, do you have funky formatting, or what causes it?
[08:36] <adamant1988> hrmmm nixternal I'll have to put that to the test, I'm doing a big Ubuntu project in my school.
[08:36] <nixternal> truthfully..i use OOo for everything...i let my clients know, if it doesn't look right, i suggest you get OOo then ;)
[08:36] <Burgundavia> adamant1988: I am telling you from real world, hard-earned experience that calling us Linux really doesn't hurt us
[08:36] <bimberi> Apparently Microsoft is going to have ODT compatibity, but all i've seen is talk about Office reading it.  Nothing about Save As...
[08:36] <nixternal> Kamping_Kaiser: it is usually funky formatting
[08:36] <nixternal> if you do regular type stuff with, simple letters, memo's and what not, it is great...but when you get into tables, and special page formats, it is done with
[08:36] <Madpilot> I almost always just use OOo's PDF exporter when I'm sending stuff out - that way it looks nearly identical everywhere, and people can't mess with it ;)
[08:37] <Kamping_Kaiser> oh, ok. my cv is lacking in fuknky formatting
[08:37] <nixternal> and you have to make sure you have msttcorefonts installed, otherwise everything will look bad
[08:37] <nixternal> Madpilot: that is what i do now, just to keep my clients happy
[08:37] <bimberi> Madpilot: do you find that even small documents are really large though.  2 pages of black and white text -> 150K !
[08:38] <nixternal> i haven't noticed that at all bimberi, but i will look into it now that you said something
[08:38] <Kamping_Kaiser> nixternal, no i dont. but i usualy export to pdf before sending, (in honesty, to otehr linux users)
[08:38] <Madpilot> bimberi, I've never really paid attention, actually. Let me check a few docs here
[08:38] <Kamping_Kaiser> bimberi, yeh, i found that :(
[08:38] <adamant1988> ok Burgundavia I'll take your word for it
[08:39] <nixternal> i just compared ms vs OOo in size...in a spreadsheet.... ms = 84480      OOo = 14712    ....winner = OOo there
[08:39] <Burgundavia> actually, one of the biggest things we can do for desktop Linux right now is to promote OpenOffice
[08:39] <Madpilot> bimberi, you've got a point - my 26Kb .odt file is apparently a 103Kb PDF from OOo - but don't forget that a PDF has far more embedded info than an odt file
[08:39] <bimberi> nixternal: sorry, wasn't clear - i mean ODT vs PDF exported from OOo
[08:40] <nixternal> ahhhh
[08:40] <Kamping_Kaiser> point Madpilot , all the fonts and whatnot are embedded ?
[08:40] <Madpilot> nixternal, I've noticed that too - a 500kb Excel file a friend sent me shrunk to 80Kb in OOo Calc format ;)
[08:40] <Madpilot> Kamping_Kaiser, yeah, parts of the fonts, at least
[08:40] <nixternal> Burgundavia: i love OOo...i couldn't use anything else i don't think...Koffice isn't even close YET
[08:41] <bimberi> Madpilot: that's not surprising either :)
[08:41] <Burgundavia> I hate OOo tbh
[08:41] <nixternal> lol
[08:41] <bimberi> Burgundavia: so does Linux iirc
[08:41] <adamant1988> Burgundavia, what office replacement do you suggest then?
[08:41] <bimberi> *Linus
[08:41] <Burgundavia> nothing, because there is nothing
[08:41] <Burgundavia> Kamping_Kaiser: exactly
[08:41] <nixternal> you know what...i think Joey Stanford, aka Rinchen, works with OOo somehow/someway
[08:41] <nixternal> like on the payroll
[08:42] <Burgundavia> I am waiting for the gnome office people to shit or get off the pot
[08:42] <Kamping_Kaiser> lol
[08:42] <bimberi> lol
[08:42] <adamant1988> lol
[08:42] <adamant1988> there's always koffice...
[08:42] <Kamping_Kaiser> portable?
[08:43] <nixternal> koffice is great..if you don't want any interaction what so ever with ms office
[08:43] <adamant1988> lol
[08:44] <nixternal> the next version of koffice however, is supposed to finally have ms office support
[08:44] <nixternal> i can't wait to see that
[08:44] <nixternal> first time supporting office, i bet it is god awfull
[08:44] <adamant1988> heh, there's always crossover +MSoffice I guess...
[08:45] <nixternal> my systems will not get wine, xover, or cedega installed...as i don't want anything for windows on my machines.
[08:45] <nixternal> if i want to sit here and market Ubuntu, and market Linux...i have to use it 110%...nothing less
[08:45] <adamant1988> I never use office suites.... although I do think the project mananger in oo.o is cool.
[08:45] <Madpilot> OOo has a project manager?
[08:45] <adamant1988> yeah
[08:46] <nixternal> how does it look, me supporting, loving, and spreading Ubuntu and Linux, but using wine or xover so i can run ms apps
[08:46] <adamant1988> I'm going to use it to manage my local projects and such
[08:46] <adamant1988> Nixternal, it looks like you're someone who's trying to use their computer.
[08:46] <Kamping_Kaiser> a way they dont have to
[08:46] <bimberi> nixternal: pragmatic :/
[08:47] <adamant1988> I have both wine and crossover installed, I don't feel ashamed or like i'm burning the ubuntu flag or something...
[08:47] <nixternal> i do use my computer...i don't run windows and let my computer use me
[08:47] <adamant1988> I use crossover to get photoshop
[08:47] <nixternal> gimp
[08:47] <nixternal> bah you and your layers
[08:47] <adamant1988> gimp doesn't have feature layers lol.
[08:47] <Kamping_Kaiser> feature layers?
[08:48] <adamant1988> when gimp supports those I'll switch
[08:48] <nixternal> gimp does more for me quicker then ps ever did
[08:48] <adamant1988> yeah, layers that alter the layers below them
[08:48] <adamant1988> levels layers, CB layers, etc.
[08:48] <Kamping_Kaiser> oh ok
[08:48] <adamant1988> Gimp works fast for me than ps too, but I still use PS because it has the features I need
[08:49] <nixternal> tuxpaint has all the features im smart enough to use
[08:49] <nixternal> i can use the paintbrush and the pencil
[08:49] <adamant1988> the only work around is rediculous when you're trying to edit 90 layer files =\
[08:50] <Kamping_Kaiser> 90 o_0
[08:50] <adamant1988> yeah, 90 is a pretty good number for me
[08:50] <adamant1988> sometimes higher, sometimes lower.
[08:50] <nixternal> when i get above 4 i merge all visible
[08:50] <adamant1988> yeah but I like to be able to edit all the aspects of my files
[08:51] <Madpilot> nixternal, sometimes it's nice to have simple apps that only do exactly what you want - +1 for tuxpaint & text editors :)
[08:52] <nixternal> lol
[08:52] <nixternal> i couldnt live w/o tuxpaint and kate/kwrite/nano/vim/emacs
[08:52] <adamant1988> all in all i do try to use all the free software I can
[08:53] <adamant1988> mp3 codecs are neccessary because of my multiple gigs of mp3s and my non ogg mp3 player. and I like being able to watch my DVD collection on my computer so libdvdcss
[08:56] <Kamping_Kaiser> and lrm (a dependancy)
[08:57] <adamant1988>  vrms?
[08:57] <Kamping_Kaiser> in apt. Virtual Richard M Stallman ;)
[08:58] <adamant1988> lol what does that do?
[08:58] <poningru> anyone know where I can get some presentation matierial?
[08:58] <Kamping_Kaiser> searches for non free packages and tells you what you have installed
[08:59] <Kamping_Kaiser> hm. there was some on the wiki wasnt there?
[09:00] <adamant1988> lol I'm installing vrms
[09:00] <Kamping_Kaiser> :)
[09:00] <Burgundavia> poningru: lots on the wiki
[09:00] <Madpilot> the real RMS is bad enough... I'm not sure I like the idea of even a virtual version on my computer ;)
[09:01] <Kamping_Kaiser> heheh
[09:02] <Madpilot> I'll grant he's been useful, but he's still... still RMS...
[09:02] <bimberi> poningru: /usr/share/example-content/oo-presenting-ubuntu.odp  on a dapper install might be of interest too
[09:03] <adamant1988> lol I have 25 non free files
[09:03] <bimberi> gasp
[09:03] <Kamping_Kaiser> looool. you satanic feind :)
[09:03] <bimberi> :)
[09:04] <Kamping_Kaiser>  :o
[09:04] <Kamping_Kaiser> a witch, burn him, burn him! ;)
[09:04] <adamant1988> Don't you need to weigh me against a duck or something?
[09:04] <Kamping_Kaiser> adamant1988, nah, i just skip that bit.
[09:04] <adamant1988> ah... is this a fair court?
[09:05] <Madpilot> of course not
[09:05] <Queen_of_hearts> what do you think? :)
[09:05] <adamant1988> LOL
[09:05] <Kamping_Kaiser> :)
[09:05] <adamant1988> Well I better get rid of my display drivers and such 0_0
[09:05] <Madpilot> we'll just sneak up on you in a giant wooden rabbit, or something
[09:05] <Kamping_Kaiser> lol
[09:06] <nixternal> poningru: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DIYMarketing
[09:06] <bimberi> adamant1988: I've gtg.  Thanks for catalysing an excellent discussion here.
[09:07] <adamant1988> no problem, I try :)
[09:07] <adamant1988> I like to display my opinion, it means I'll usually get a better one in return.
[09:16] <poningru> thanks
[10:14] <matthewrevell> morning
[10:24] <Kamping_Kaiser> hey
[10:25] <matthewrevell> hey :)
[10:29] <Kamping_Kaiser> :) bbl. dinner
[10:36] <ompaul> matthewrevell, to use a phrase, surely not already ;-)
[10:36] <ompaul> back soon
[03:42] <Kamping_Kaiser> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/posters cant think of anything :|
[03:59] <gnomefreak> hmmmm you mean like F*** Winblows use Ubuntu?
[03:59] <gnomefreak> ;)
[03:59] <Kamping_Kaiser> lol. works for me :)
[03:59] <Kamping_Kaiser> Ubuntu: Community is important <- my single ida so far
[04:16] <MenZa> For a small fee, I can print them.
[04:16] <MenZa> All I need is the poster in .EPS format.
[04:17] <MenZa> (I'm doing it for free; I do it at work.   She's the definition of an end user though.
[06:07] <adamant1988> so she's great for the experiment.
[06:07] <Kamping_Kaiser> nix. hehe
[06:08] <nixternal> Ubuntu - Putting blue screens to sleep
[06:08] <nixternal> Ubuntu - Removing Control Alt Delete
[06:08] <nixternal> Ubuntu - No need for cussing
[06:09] <Kamping_Kaiser> nixternal, on that one its funny, because a 'commonly requested tweak' is the c+a+d one
[06:09] <nixternal> haha i know
[06:09] <adamant1988> Ubuntu- The OS that respects you :) lol
[06:09] <nixternal> oooh
[06:09] <Kamping_Kaiser> Ubuntu: Community is important
[06:09] <nixternal> i like that adamant1988
[06:09] <nixternal> i would
[06:10] <nixternal> im gonna add some of mine here shortly
[06:10] <adamant1988> i'll add it
[06:10] <adamant1988> editing wikis is fun
[06:12] <adamant1988> yay GIMP update ^_^
[06:13] <nixternal> got it
[06:13] <nixternal> gimp and cupsys
[06:14] <nixternal> Ubuntu - Do what you wish
[06:14] <adamant1988> Ubuntu- Freedom from your PC
[06:14] <nixternal> omg...i got it...and the people in the US would love it..and it would sell like crazy
[06:15] <adamant1988> Ubuntu now with MS windows?
[06:15] <nixternal> you know the chevy pissin' on ford stickers?
[06:15] <adamant1988> no
[06:15] <nixternal> yes, ubuntu pissin' on ms
[06:15] <nixternal> hahahah
[06:15] <adamant1988> yes, that certainly displays the feeling of community, particularly if your'e into that kind of thing...
[06:16] <nixternal> haha..i have a tux peein' on the butterfly sticker
[06:16] <nixternal> so that one is already old
[06:16] <adamant1988> good, we can't misuse and ubuntu logo now
[06:20] <nixternal> Ubuntu - Making us stronger / Bringing us together / Everbody is one / Linux for everyone / Linux on board / ...
[06:20] <nixternal> "If you don't like the way I am computing, please goto http://www.ubuntu.com"
[06:20] <nixternal> ^^ if you don't like the way i drive sticker ;)
[06:23] <adamant1988> Ubuntu - Linux made obvious
[06:23] <adamant1988> lol
[06:23] <nixternal> haha nice
[06:41] <adamant1988> lol... we should make Ubuntu seem like a niche thing to do too.
[06:41] <nixternal> hehe
[06:42] <nixternal> Ubuntu - Innoculation at your fingertips
[06:42] <Kamping_Kaiser> innoculation?
[06:42] <adamant1988> Ubuntu- Your granfathers linux need not apply :)
[06:42] <nixternal> ya..like getting a shot to stop the virus ;)
[06:42] <Kamping_Kaiser> oh, right.
[06:42] <nixternal> haha
[06:43] <adamant1988> But we could make it seem like all the 'cool' people are using it.
[06:43] <nixternal> Ubuntu - Anybody call a doctor?
[06:43] <nixternal> Ubuntu - This is Linux?
[06:43] <adamant1988> Ubuntu- Computers like Air-conditioners, don't like windows open :)
[06:43] <nixternal> haha
[06:43] <Kamping_Kaiser> lol
[06:43] <nixternal> gahahaha
[06:43] <adamant1988> more than 7 but it's still catchy :)
[06:44] <nixternal> Air-condition your pc, don't open a window
[06:44] <nixternal> that one sucked
[06:44] <nixternal> sorry
[06:44] <Kamping_Kaiser> :(
[06:44] <adamant1988> it's ok
[06:44] <nixternal> Ubuntu - Using five fingers instead of one
[06:45] <nixternal> the middle one
[06:45] <adamant1988> I didn't make the phrase up so I can't be offended by you butchering it.
[06:45] <adamant1988> Ubuntu- The end of the three finger salute.
[06:45] <Kamping_Kaiser> hehe
[06:45] <Kamping_Kaiser> ubuntu: because nude people at work is ok (not mine)
[06:45] <nixternal> adamant1988: i also think slogans like that are good, as they target geeks and get a chuckle, and just maybe they will say "let me check out this Ubuntu"
[06:46] <nixternal> rofl @ Kamping_Kaiser
[06:46] <adamant1988> heh, but the nerdy bunch probably knows about ubuntu.
[06:46] <adamant1988> Ubuntu- Be Different, in mass.
[06:47] <nixternal> to ubuntu or not to ubuntu, that is the question
[06:48] <adamant1988> Lol.
[06:48] <ompaul> adamant1988, that is like some pseudo late 70s early 80s gag, see all the non conformists in their jeans :-)
[06:48] <Kamping_Kaiser> heh
[06:48] <adamant1988> Lol yeah it's supposed to be a little ironic, lol.
[06:48] <Kamping_Kaiser> ubuntu: join the cult
[06:48] <adamant1988> But if anyones paid attention this era looks a lot like the 60's anyway =\
[06:48] <ompaul> nixternal, Computers prefer Ubuntu.
[06:49] <nixternal> 1+ billion people use MS Windows, don't be the next idiot
[06:49] <nixternal> haha
[06:49] <nixternal> i made that number up
[06:49] <ompaul> nixternal, so you now insulted all the windows users - they are going to remember you for the wrong reason.
[06:50] <nixternal> 1+ billion Windows systems use their owners, don't be the next
[06:50] <ompaul> now your starting to think ;-)
[06:50] <nixternal> ompaul: as long as i am remembered ;)
[06:50] <Kamping_Kaiser> hehe
[06:50] <adamant1988> Haha.
[06:50] <adamant1988> Ubuntu- Because viruses don't like to share.
[06:51] <adamant1988> :D
[06:51] <ompaul> Ubuntu, Linux for Human Beings. can you work with that
[06:51] <Kamping_Kaiser> Ubuntu: more antivirus's then virus's
[06:51] <adamant1988> I still opt to take out the word linux in the slogan =\
[06:51] <nixternal> Ubuntu, Linux for everyone <- this covers the 500million aliens also on earth
[06:52] <nixternal> "Linux for Human Beings" is showing prejudice to others ;)
[06:52] <adamant1988> cool, I vote nixternal. Those aliens and their advanced hardware need ubuntu.
[06:52] <adamant1988> Who are we to be biased to our species?
[06:52] <nixternal> haha
[06:53] <Kamping_Kaiser> we are us :)
[06:53] <nixternal> i know a few people here in Chicago that aren't even close to human
[06:53] <nixternal> haha
[06:53] <adamant1988> "Take me to your leader" next guy: "Mr.Shuttleworth the local birth defect charity is here to see you"
[06:54] <adamant1988> Yes, as a person with birth defects I can say that.
[06:54] <adamant1988> Anywho... the slogan
[06:55] <adamant1988> Do we NEED to use the linux for human beings thing?
[06:57] <adamant1988> lol we could spoof the progressive caveman commercials with Ubuntu and aliens lol
[06:57] <Kamping_Kaiser> Ubuntu: Software for Homosapien?
[06:57] <MenZa> "Ubuntu: leet!"
[06:57] <MenZa> ;D
[06:58] <Kamping_Kaiser> Ubuntu: Works for me
[06:58] <Kamping_Kaiser> Ubuntu: now with LTS
[06:58] <MenZa> Ubuntu: So nice you'd think it was a product of Chuck Norris(tm)
[06:58] <MenZa> ;D
[06:59] <MenZa> Oh yeah?!
[06:59] <MenZa> Well, you... you...
[06:59] <MenZa> damn.
[06:59] <adamant1988> Ubuntu: Linux for people not computers.
[06:59] <Kamping_Kaiser> Ubuntu: Office 'out of the box'
[07:01] <Kamping_Kaiser> adamant1988, you freak !
[07:01] <Kamping_Kaiser> (or not like that? ;))
[07:01] <adamant1988> well I meant the slogans but that'll do
[07:01] <Kamping_Kaiser> hehe
[07:01] <Kamping_Kaiser> Ubuntu: A system for everyone
[07:01] <adamant1988> I'm going to have to bust out the jade concentration balls and get some hard core thinking going on.
[07:02] <adamant1988> ok let's start at square one
[07:02] <adamant1988> What do we want to say?
[07:02] <adamant1988> We know that we have 7 words to say it in.
[07:03] <adamant1988> It's an advertisement poster
[07:03] <adamant1988> we want to put a slogan on it, but we need it to be about 7 words.
[07:03] <Kamping_Kaiser> i was having mroe fun before i started thinking about the point
[07:03] <Kamping_Kaiser> oh bugger. i have to be up soon -_-, i forgot about that
[07:04] <adamant1988> lol
[07:04] <Kamping_Kaiser> :| oh well, i'll stay up for another 20 min
[07:04] <Kamping_Kaiser> Ubuntu: keeps yuou up at night
[07:04] <adamant1988> nixternal you here?
[07:05] <adamant1988> We need to decide what we're trying to say on the poster.
[07:06] <adamant1988> ompaul, you there?
[07:06] <ompaul> adamant1988, on a call type away
[07:06] <adamant1988> oh ok, I just wanted your input on this...
[07:07] <ompaul> how far back
[07:07] <adamant1988> we're trying to decide exactly what it is we want to convey
[07:07] <adamant1988> about Ubuntu.
[07:07] <adamant1988> and how to convey it.
[07:08] <Kamping_Kaiser> buggerit, i'm off now :) later all
[07:08] <adamant1988> I think we should be stressing Ubuntu's community nature and a technical aspect like being virus free or stable
[07:09] <adamant1988> although the stable arguement isn't a good switch motive because windows has become much better with that.
[07:11] <adamant1988> Ubuntu: Security in the community.
[07:12] <adamant1988> am I the only one working on this?
[07:13] <adamant1988> hrmmm guess so...
[07:13] <ompaul> no I reading
[07:13] <adamant1988> I think stressing that Ubuntu is more secure is probably the best option
[07:14] <adamant1988> Windows has the fore-front in usability simply because it's what people know, but it's hard to argue that ours is easier if they have to spend time learning it
[07:14] <adamant1988> But windows doesn't have security going for it, so I think it's best to take advantage of that.
[07:15] <adamant1988> hrmmm... idk.. I will wait until more people are involved...
[07:15] <adamant1988> until then I'm going to work on the switch project... which I need to propose to the mailing list.
[07:31] <ompaul> adamant1988, when you move from one car to another you expect little things like the horn is on a different stick or in the wheel - the indicator has changed place, we have an alternative and when you feel the new seats you will know the quality is so much higher
[07:32] <adamant1988> So we're trying to say freedom at higher quality?
[07:33] <ompaul> no we have sevearl messages
[07:34] <ompaul> several messages - quality, alternative, freedom, when we speak of freedom, it is not just software freedom, but being free of the security pains that windows causes
[07:34] <ompaul> for reasons that are beyond me I need to restart gnome
[07:34] <ompaul> back in a moment
[07:50] <ompaul> adamant1988, sorry about that, got side tracked people from various places chasing me for information :-) like do I happen to have a spare C programmer who knows Asterisk
[07:51] <ompaul> adamant1988, did you pop that onto the mailing list
[07:52] <adamant1988> yeah I put my idea into the mailing list...
[07:52] <ompaul> okay I will take a look at it there
[07:52] <adamant1988> it's not the same thing
[07:52] <adamant1988> It's the "switch" project I'm undertaking.
[07:53] <adamant1988> assuming that I have the marketing teams' back.
[07:53] <adamant1988> backing*
[07:55] <ompaul> It costs nothing, it does not have the spyware and virus issues that plague other software, and wallpapers the likes of which you have never seen before. Yes it does internet, web, email, im, voip, software for it is limited only by your imagination.
[07:56] <ompaul> Yes, it is called, Ubuntu.
[07:57] <adamant1988> I thought we were supposed to keep it to 7 words?
[07:58] <ompaul> ahh
[07:58] <ompaul> sorry I had not spotted that
[07:58] <adamant1988> Yeah this is going on big posters possibly
[07:58] <ompaul> okay
[07:58] <adamant1988> did you read about the switch project in the mailing list or has it not been sent yet?
[08:00] <ompaul> okay this is more than seven but I would be inclined to think like: Internet, Office, Games, Voip, Education, Graphics, Mulitmedia. In a word Ubuntu.
[08:02] <ompaul> MenZa, that must be some other software you are thinking about
[08:02] <adamant1988> windows : let's the bugs in.
[08:03] <ompaul> okay I will play with words and see if I get anything together in the next while
[08:03] <ompaul> adamant1988, we can't go around beating MS this is an alternative
[08:03] <adamant1988> I know
[08:03] <adamant1988> it was a spoor
[08:03] <ompaul> as for bugs - 50k+
[08:03] <adamant1988> spoof
[08:03] <ompaul> oay
[08:03] <ompaul> okay even
[08:03] <ompaul> :-)
[08:03] <ompaul> right I am out of here for a while
[08:04] <adamant1988> Should we be emphasizing the community, freedom, etc?
[08:04] <ompaul> biab
[08:04] <ompaul> just think for a bit
[08:04] <adamant1988> hrmm
[08:05] <adamant1988> I think we should go short sweet and effective.
[08:05] <adamant1988> so 7 words might be to many.
[08:07] <adamant1988> Ubuntu "your digital life- set free"
[08:10] <adamant1988> hrmm
[08:26] <adamant1988> hello sara_
[08:29] <sara_> heloo
[08:29] <adamant1988> I caught your post in the mailing list, I can't say I see any problems with those flow chart things.
[08:31] <sara_> well they are a beginning becauce Jhon was not usre about the flow of the marketing team-ubuntu magazine so they have to be chaged
[08:31] <adamant1988> ah, ok.
[08:31] <adamant1988> Did you catch my proposal of the user data project by any chance?
[08:32] <sara_> I just started checking my e-mail so I am trying to catch up from fridyay night
[08:32] <adamant1988> oh ok :)
[08:33] <adamant1988> I am lost on the slogan thing, I can't get anything short enough to make me happy
[08:33] <sara_> I just saw that too, but can't tihnk of any thing right now
[08:33] <adamant1988> My ideas are mostly on the wiki
[08:34] <adamant1988> the only one I didn't put on the wiki is "Your digital life- set free"
[08:34] <adamant1988> because I think it's not read for the wiki =(
[08:34] <sara_> where is the wiki
[08:34] <adamant1988> I found it by typing in posters
[08:35] <MenZa> here-is-the-wiki.com
[08:35] <MenZa> o_o
[08:37] <sara_> I kind of like the freedom for you data one
[08:37] <adamant1988> Yeah, I want to do something short and sweet
[08:37] <adamant1988> like "Think different"
[08:38] <adamant1988> It's completely unrelated to Apple but yet it does the job perfectly
[08:38] <adamant1988> and all of my ideas can be related straight to ubuntu.
[08:39] <sara_>   ohh I have one, Linux unleashed
[08:39] <adamant1988> What about "simple linux"
[08:40] <adamant1988> "Simply Free"
[08:40] <sara_> that is cool, it has to have freedom, siple and some elemetn of exietmen on it, but i can't think of one
[08:40] <adamant1988> That describes Ubuntu in a nutshell.
[08:42] <nixternal> Ubuntu in a nutshell, o'reilly would hunt you down
[08:42] <nixternal> Linux unleashed = a book title
[08:42] <nixternal> Ubuntu - use it or nixternal will find you
[08:42] <sara_> I did not that
[08:42] <nixternal> and that is at 7 letters ;)
[08:43] <nixternal> heya sara_
[08:43] <nixternal> i just responed to your last email...john did a great job with the charter
[08:43] <nixternal> him and i spoke about it briefly last week
[08:44] <sara_> yeah he mentioned that, I think i have to hang around the IRC more
[08:44] <nixternal> irc has been hopping around here a lot lately
[08:44] <nixternal> it is mostly due to adamant1988 starting problems with removing linux ;)
[08:44] <nixternal> gotcha
[08:44] <adamant1988> LOL.
[08:45] <adamant1988> I didn't even find out that was a band until I started using this name =\
[08:45] <nixternal> haha
[08:45] <sara_> HAHA
[08:45] <nixternal> i thought you were just some weirdo who was actually their only fan
[08:45] <adamant1988> My name is actually something my deceased grandmother gave to me when I was younger...
[08:45] <sara_> how come?
[08:45] <adamant1988> There was a TV show  called "atom Ant" and my name is Adam so she always called me Adam Ant
[08:46] <adamant1988> I hated it when I was younger but when she passed away I started using it for my name.
[08:46] <sara_> coll
[08:46] <sara_> cool
[08:47] <nixternal> i can't use the names my family gave me...it goes against the CoC
[08:47] <adamant1988> haha.
[08:47] <sara_> My name used to confuse people
[08:47] <adamant1988> My nickname on sites used to be DismalMuse
[08:48] <nixternal> nix = remove, take away, gone for good .......    ternal = add the e, lasts for ever..... oxymoron created when combined.....and when combined...they mean UNIX FOREVER!!!
[08:48] <adamant1988> Nixternal I found a nice short slogan I think
[08:49] <adamant1988> "Simply Free"
[08:49] <nixternal> me too...
[08:49] <adamant1988> Pick which meaning makes it better for you
[08:49] <nixternal> "nixternal uses it"
[08:49] <adamant1988> haha
[08:49] <nixternal> kinda like the "mikey likes it" campaign
[08:49] <adamant1988> two syllable words might confuse people.
[08:49] <adamant1988> ;)
[08:49] <nixternal> have me sittin' in front of a ubuntu cd like it is a bowl of cereal
[08:49] <nixternal> you think chex will get mad?
[08:50] <adamant1988> probably
[08:50] <adamant1988> who would want you on television?
[08:50] <nixternal> bah..i never liked that cereal anyways ;)
[08:51] <adamant1988> I want to know if Ubuntu will ever come with support packages.
[08:51] <nixternal> i was thinking someone like "matthew mcconaughey"
[08:51] <adamant1988> like you can buy it in a box but you're really just paying for the support package for it.
[08:51] <nixternal> what os comes with support packages?
[08:52] <adamant1988> As far as I know windows comes with support when you buy it.
[08:52] <nixternal> OEM support
[08:52] <nixternal> otherwise you have the forums
[08:52] <nixternal> let me see you call microsoft and get support w/o paying for it
[08:52] <nixternal> you can't
[08:52] <adamant1988> =\
[08:52] <adamant1988> FINE!
[08:53] <nixternal> the only thing microsoft won't charge you for when you call them, is to register your windows xp and get an activation code ;)
[08:53] <adamant1988> I just want Ubuntu in a boxed set with a manual and some cool stickers.
[08:53] <nixternal> me too
[08:53] <nixternal> i check the mail and it wasn't there
[08:53] <nixternal> tomorrow, i will beat up the mailman if he does't deliver ;)
[08:53] <sara_> you can actually get ms if you buy your own $299 box
[08:53] <adamant1988> lol My Ubuntu disks arrived  a week or so ago and my Kubuntu disks haven't gotten here, I ordered them first.
[08:54] <nixternal> grrr
[08:54] <adamant1988> I'd like to be able to buy it though
[08:54] <nixternal> how come mine haven't...i was one of the first 1,000 on the day they opened up
[08:54] <nixternal> adamant1988: i thought you could buy it
[08:55] <nixternal> you can purchase ubuntu support
[08:55] <adamant1988> You get a nice box with some pretty artwork, a manual that tells you everything you need to know, and the CDs (probably Xubuntu, Kubuntu, and Ubuntu)
[08:55] <adamant1988> I mean the boxed set, the supports not really that important to me.
[08:55] <nixternal> you know what i have noticed...all the major computer stores around me don't have anything linux in them anymore except for wallmart and fry's
[08:55] <nixternal> and they only have linspire
[08:56] <adamant1988> Our walmart doesn't have any linux.
[08:56] <adamant1988> The closest they have is an epson printer =\
[08:56] <nixternal> fry's has sold 1 linspire box in the 2 years they have been there
[08:56] <nixternal> but they are requested to keep it stocked
[08:56] <adamant1988> Ubuntu needs to get preloaded on desktops...
[08:56] <nixternal> wallmart does't sell anything..so they end up giving it away on store days here
[08:56] <Burgwork> nixternal, they are giving away the linux computers?
[08:56] <nixternal> only problem with that is that nobody buys them
[08:57] <sara_> The only place where I can buy Linux is on amazon
[08:57] <nixternal> not the comptuer Burgwork
[08:57] <nixternal> well fry's pretty much is
[08:57] <nixternal> $129 for linspire machine
[08:57] <adamant1988> that's the price they're set at
[08:57] <nixternal> amd setup, 40gb drive, 128mb ram
[08:57] <adamant1988> lol.
[08:57] <nixternal> no..the price they are set at is $280
[08:57] <nixternal> i received the package info for my store
[08:57] <adamant1988> I hope Ubuntu gets something a bit like CNR in the future.
[08:58] <nixternal> i don't...i want free..as in free everything including the darn beer
[08:58] <adamant1988> So we could purchase nonfree stuff if we felt like it
[08:58] <adamant1988> lol.
[08:58] <nixternal> also, cnr is a nice way to implement utter junk
[08:58] <sara_> I would really like if they get CNR, canonical has that  new repo so maybe in the future
[08:58] <nixternal> and from what i seen, it is blazingly slow and loaded with advertisements from all the software it puts out
[08:59] <nixternal> i had not clue what cnr was until i looked saturday while at fry's on the machine there
[08:59] <nixternal> s/not/no
[09:00] <sara_> I used it onjce and I don't really like it, but I would still like to but some of their stuff
[09:01] <nixternal> http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0760989   <- i messed up, as that was my high school sweetheart
[09:01] <nixternal> my buddy just emailed me laughing
[09:02] <sara_> are you serius?
[09:02] <nixternal> dead serious
[09:02] <nixternal> i have the yearbook plus photos to prove it
[09:03] <nixternal> i had no clue she became "famous"
[09:03] <sara_> she is on that series on the wb.
[09:03] <nixternal> i guess...i never seen it
[09:03] <sara_> its girl series. I don't think any guy actually watches it
[09:04] <nixternal> the only thing i ever remember was "mtv's wanna-be a vj contest"...the first one
[09:04] <nixternal> i guess that got her started
[09:04] <sara_> I found it while visting my sisiter in her dorm and they had girsl night
[09:04] <Burgwork> sara_, gai has everything but the purchasing part of cnr
[09:05] <nixternal> she would get mad cuz i always said it was sammy hagar's birthday and my parents anniversary...and she would be like "what about my birthday jerk"
[09:05] <nixternal> haha
[09:05] <sara_> gai?
[09:05] <Burgwork> gnome-app-install
[09:05] <Burgwork> add/remove on your menu
[09:05] <sara_> ohh, I use Kubuntu so I have never used that I use Adpet
[09:06] <Burgwork> ah, you are missing out on gai goodness
[09:06] <sara_> nixternal. di you go to school with Billy Corgan?
[09:06] <nixternal> he was a sr. my freshman year
[09:06] <sara_> yeah maybe I'll give it a try
[09:06] <nixternal> i played football with his brother
[09:06] <nixternal> actually..i was in 8th grade his sr. year
[09:07] <nixternal> how did you know about billy corgan?
[09:07] <sara_> close enough
[09:07] <nixternal> ahhh
[09:07] <nixternal> nm..i see it
[09:07] <nixternal> LOL
[09:07] <nixternal> when i tell people i went to glenbard north, they are like you went to high school with billy corgan
[09:08] <nixternal> billy corgan was a fat weirdo/pseudo nerd from what i remember from the 80's
[09:08] <sara_> well he is still weird
[09:10] <nixternal> i just sent my mom that info, and she called...omg i bet you are kicking yourself now
[09:10] <nixternal> lol
[09:32] <adamant1988> hello all.
[09:40] <gaz00> hiya adamant1988
[09:40] <gaz00> did your optimal____  buddy figure out what he wanted to do?
[09:42] <adamant1988> he's helping me with my data project right now, but he REALLY wants to get in to the art team
[09:43] <adamant1988> he's a really good artist too.
[09:44] <gaz00> so he's interested in ubuntu artwork, or for marketing?
[09:45] <adamant1988> I talked to him about the marketing, but he is a very highly respected digital artist.
[09:45] <adamant1988> although most of his work is abstract
[09:55] <gaz00> ahh... i'll have to get you to show me some of his work (out of curiousity) when I get back
[09:56] <gaz00> gotta run..later
[10:29] <adamant1988> hey all.
[10:29] <ompaul> adamant1988, do a few more :-)
[10:30] <adamant1988> a few more slogans?
[10:30] <ompaul> yeah
[10:30] <adamant1988> I started doing really bad on them lol
[10:31] <adamant1988> I kind of gave up
[10:31] <adamant1988> http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h314/adamant1988/Ubuntubanner.jpg I did do a small logo banner with one of them that I *did* like though...
 ever wake up next to a woman the morning after drinking and find that shes not as pretty as you hoped. well heres your chance to wake up next to one of the gorgeous Ubuntu women <slogan/>   ;)
[10:33] <adamant1988> lol
[10:33] <adamant1988> I went for short.
[10:33] <gnomefreak> lll
[10:33] <gnomefreak> lol
[10:33] <adamant1988> My favorite was "Simply Free"
[10:33] <gnomefreak> virus free ;)
[10:33] <adamant1988> free of whatever you want it to be free of
[10:33] <adamant1988> but it's simply free of that.
[10:33] <gnomefreak> hit what windows users hate about MS
[10:34] <adamant1988> We spend too much time focusing on Microsofts flaws, why not focus on our strengths?
[10:34] <ompaul> gnomefreak, you can hit it too
[10:34] <gnomefreak> ompaul: i know im just thinking of things on the spot while trying to figure this pos out
[10:35] <ompaul> gnomefreak, look at the page and fill it then put some spaces at the bottom for the next person :-)
[10:35] <gnomefreak> i go to sleep on night and theres a online ubuntu class and the poster thing i need to stop sleeping
[10:35] <adamant1988> wait... what online Ubuntu class?
[10:36] <gnomefreak> hold on a sec
[10:36] <gnomefreak> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom
[10:36] <gnomefreak> its being worked on
[10:37] <gnomefreak> i see ompaul has been taking my ideas :(
[10:37] <ompaul> hehe
[10:37] <adamant1988> sounds like a good idea but I doubt the attendance will be high...
[10:37] <adamant1988> ompaul what's up with the taking of others ideas?
[10:38] <gnomefreak> ;)
[10:38] <ompaul> adamant1988, I think you will find that is a groundless arguement - I published first :)
[10:38] <gnomefreak> i said above virus free and he already had it there
[10:38] <adamant1988> I was just playing along lol.
[10:40] <adamant1988> Cut the curtains the actor's have gone home
[10:40] <adamant1988> intermissions a mission on it's own
[10:42] <adamant1988> Billy talent rocks
[10:42] <ompaul> Software your way, Ubuntu!
[10:42] <ompaul> would you like chips with that
[10:42] <adamant1988> omg
[10:42] <adamant1988> i work at subway
[10:42] <adamant1988> that's not nice.
[10:43] <ompaul> adamant1988, micro chips was the joke
[10:43] <ompaul> but anyway
[10:46] <gnomefreak> you can get alot depending on what you want them for but i would wait
[10:47] <adamant1988> I got 30 out of the 50 I wanted
[10:47] <adamant1988> but why would you wait?
[10:47] <gnomefreak> thats not bad i got 25 and none work :(
[10:47] <adamant1988> are you serious? all of mine work 0_0
[10:48] <gnomefreak> adamant1988: there are a ton of bugs ont he gui installer
[10:48] <gnomefreak> i tried 17 and got tired
[10:48] <gnomefreak> i stillhave 8 more to play with
[10:48] <adamant1988> so you're saying don't give the disks out? this sucks
[10:48] <adamant1988> I need them for a project =\
[10:49] <gnomefreak> adamant1988: test them first or give them out and make back ups of one that does work
[10:49] <adamant1988> ok hold on
[10:49] <gnomefreak> the problem with testing mine is they fail on partitioning
[10:50] <adamant1988> I used one to install to my laptop
[10:50] <adamant1988> worked perfectly
[10:50] <adamant1988> but I also didn't do anything with the partitioning I just let it use the whole drive
[10:51] <gnomefreak> well seeing as im sure ill have to reinstall before edgy is stable i will try them than
[10:51] <adamant1988> haha
[10:51] <adamant1988> I'm thinking about reinstalling on my desktop
[10:51] <adamant1988> I've done too much playing around.
[10:52] <gnomefreak> i will be on stable tonight for a luittle while so i cant play :(
[10:52] <adamant1988> =\
[10:52] <gnomefreak> matter of fact ill be back im gonna change pcs
[10:52] <adamant1988> ok I have to go anyway
[10:52] <adamant1988> therapist
[10:54] <ompaul> mindspin, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/posters 7 words or less
[11:34] <mindspin> hi ompaul
[11:35] <ompaul> mindspin: back in a moment this xchat-gnome is not what I want
[11:35] <ompaul> :-/
[11:43] <ompaul> mindspin nice
[11:43] <mindspin> just some first ones...
[11:44] <mindspin> I think they should do a poster -campaing with different slogans, maybe telling a story...
[11:44] <mindspin> there are a lot of good ideas
[11:51] <ompaul> pop that on the mailing list
[11:51] <mindspin> yup you are right..


[18:28] <Myrtti> I'm not sure what was that for?
[18:29] <bazhang> he's hitting multiple channels with nonsense thats why
[18:33] <LjL> besides iirc shizuo is someone who should be banned on sight
[18:33] <bazhang> pretty much
 thing is though, when you update windows it fixes stuff....and when you update Linux...it breaks EVERYTHING
[19:02] <genii> Pretty much the exact opposite of my experience.
[19:03] <bazhang> of course
[19:04] <bazhang> other gems from Halp include "did you power it on and off"
[19:04] <bazhang> "reinstall"
[21:20] <rtoyzer> hi telle
[21:21] <rtoyzer> why i get baned in ubuntu channel  ?
[21:21] <rtoyzer> == #ubuntu Cannot join channel (+b) - you are banned
[21:23] <k1l_> because you made trouble in the channel as zertyu .
[21:25] <rtoyzer> ??? trouble
[21:25] <rtoyzer> ??trouble
[21:25] <IdleOne> you got banned because you were saying random words on multiple lines.
[21:25] <IdleOne> it was disruptive to the other users in the channel
[21:25] <rtoyzer> ???signification trouble
[21:26] <IdleOne> enough to get you banned
[21:26] <rtoyzer> i m one the main contributor for ubuntu channel
[21:26] <rtoyzer> how you can ban me ?
[21:26] <IdleOne> no you aren't
[21:26] <IdleOne> I already told you why you got banned
[21:27] <rtoyzer>  #ubuntu Cannot join channel (+b) - you are banned
[21:27] <rtoyzer> what's that mean ?
[21:28] <IdleOne> it means you are banned.
[21:28] <k1l_> rtoyzer: it means you are not welcome because you dont act according to the guidelines. thats it.
[21:28] <IdleOne> At this time you will remain banned. I don't believe you have any intention of using the channel productively.
[21:29] <rtoyzer> what i have to sacrifice to have a normal access on that channel ?
[21:29] <IdleOne> 7 more days
[21:30] <IdleOne> in the mean time
[21:30] <IdleOne> !guidelines | please read them
[21:32] <IdleOne> rtoyzer: the ban will be removed in 7 days. Please part this channel.
[21:33] <rtoyzer> that's completly stupid
[21:33] <rtoyzer> tell me the reason i get banned there
[21:33] <rtoyzer> have insult anyone ?
[21:33] <IdleOne> you got banned because you were saying random words on multiple lines.
[21:34] <IdleOne> that is disruptive and prevents other users from being able to get help
[21:39] <IdleOne> rtoyzer: the ban will be removed in 7 days. Please part this channel.
[21:40] <rtoyzer> i can't wait till 7 days
[21:40] <IdleOne> you don't have a choice.
[21:46] <IdleOne> rtoyzer: the ban will be removed in 7 days. Please part this channel. 3rd time I ask.
[21:46] <rtoyzer> why  i have to wait 7 days ?
[21:46] <IdleOne> yes
[21:46] <rtoyzer> give me the reson ?
[21:48] <IdleOne> ok, the reason you have to wait 7 days is because you tried to lie to me by saying you are a main contributor to #ubuntu, when in fact we the channel ops know you are not. Another reason is because if you read the guidelines I linked to you, you would have known that when someone asks you to stop doing something you should stop which in turn also means that when an op tells you his decision about you
[21:48] <IdleOne> r ban and asks you to leave the ops channel, you should leave.
[21:50] <IdleOne> Now, I am trying to be really nice and patient but you are testing the limits of my patience. Please part this channel and in 7 days the ban in #ubuntu will be removed and you will be able to join it.


[09:46] <stub> where do bugs on jujucharms.com go now?
[12:08] <marcoceppi> stub: https://github.com/CanonicalLtd/jujucharms.com
[12:10] <stub> marcoceppi: Ta. I also found the charmworld project on Launchpad, configured for accepting bugs, so added it there.
[12:10] <marcoceppi> stub: charmworld was the old jujucharms.com
[12:11] <marcoceppi> it's switched teams and what not
[12:11] <stub> marcoceppi: More bugs to file then :) It is still linked in the footer, and the LP project should point to the external bug tracker.
[12:11]  * stub files bugs
[12:13] <marcoceppi> stub: good point, thanks!
[12:45] <ejat> hi all
[12:45] <ejat> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9426602/
[12:45] <ejat> can some one help
[12:52] <marcoceppi> ejat: have you changed anything in the environments.yaml
[12:58] <ejat> marcoceppi : nope
[12:58] <marcoceppi> ejat: fwiw, 1.20.14 was released recently
[12:58] <ejat> ok ..
[12:59] <marcoceppi> errr
[12:59] <marcoceppi> sorry, is being proposed for release
[12:59] <ejat> let me try update 1st
[12:59] <marcoceppi> I don't see anything regarding that in the bugfix log though
[12:59] <marcoceppi> one sec
[12:59] <ejat> ok ..
[13:00] <ejat> marcoceppi : another thing ... did juju jitsu still working ?
[13:00] <ejat> to export n import to another environment ?
[13:01] <marcoceppi> jitsu hasn't worked for over a year, that's for juju < 0.7
[13:01] <ejat> opss .. my bad ..
[13:01] <marcoceppi> ejat: you can still export an environment, it's called bundles
[13:01] <ejat> so its mean need to load the bundle file using juju-gui ?
[13:01] <marcoceppi> ejat: yeah, that's the new "export/import" feature
[13:02] <ejat> need to up the juju-gui at the another environment 1st then import the bundle ?
[13:02] <ejat> brb.,,
[13:04] <ejat> marcoceppi: so now .. no automatic way to transfer the bundle to another environment?
[13:04] <marcoceppi> ejat: no
[13:05] <ejat> ok noted :)
[13:05]  * ejat catching up things back
[13:13] <ejat> marcoceppi: im using 1.21-beta3-utopic-i386
[13:15] <ejat> should i file a bug?
[13:23] <ejat> sinzui : thanks
[13:23] <ejat> marcoceppi: http://curtis.hovey.name/2014/06/12/migrating-juju-to-hp-clouds-horizon/
[13:24] <ejat> its because of the region .... poor me ..
[16:11] <icerain_> hi there
[16:11] <icerain_> does anyone has experience with setting up openstack via juju
[16:13] <marcoceppi> icerain_: a bit, what's up?
[16:14] <icerain_> we try to set up an openstack using the multiinstall script
[16:14] <icerain_> but the process always get stuck due bootstrapping juju
[16:15] <icerain_> always get permission denied cause of the ssh keys
[16:17] <icerain_> first we set up a ubuntu server and then a maas
[16:17] <icerain_> commissioned a node for juju
[16:17] <icerain_> and thats it
[16:18] <icerain_> Remote host authentication has changed is the error message
[16:22] <icerain_> actually i think we make an error between installing maas and juju
[16:23] <icerain_> we have 6 nics per node and use eth4 for external and eth5 for internal coomunication
[16:24] <marcoceppi> icerain_: I think it might be best if you summarize your setup, what you've done so far, the errors  you're getting and either post on http://askubuntu.com or email them to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[16:25] <marcoceppi> I'm not too experienced with openstack and juju, but by having them recorded I can help find the people who can answer your questions
[16:25] <icerain_> kk, thank u anyway
[17:24] <hackedbellini> hi! Can someone help me with a little problem? I have a relation between one unit a postgresql one. The machine where postgresql is in changed ip. Juju recognized it, but the relation is still getting the old one, making that service upadate it's config file to the old connection ip
[17:24] <hackedbellini> how can I force the relation to receive that new ip?
[17:26] <lazyPower> hackedbellini: thats dependent on how its receiving the address - is it looking at remote-get private-address?
[17:28] <hackedbellini> lazyPower: let me take a look on the charm code, just a src
[17:28] <hackedbellini> sec*
[17:29] <hackedbellini> lazyPower: it's using relation-get
[17:29] <lazyPower> hackedbellini: which provider is this?
[17:30] <lazyPower> hackedbellini: and juju version would be helpful as well
[17:31] <hackedbellini> juju version 1.20.1
[17:31] <hackedbellini> provider? It's a relation between postgresql (last charm version) and gerrit (a local one I cloned before canonical-ci became private)
[17:32] <hackedbellini> lazyPower: it gets the hostname by using charmhelpers relation_get: relation_get('host', rid=relid, unit=unit)
[17:33] <lazyPower> hackedbellini: ah that sounds like its using a cached config thats being sent over the wire - and it may be sending a full postgresql connection string - i'm not 100% familiar - are you in a debug-hooks session and can verify?
[17:33] <lazyPower> if youare - just running `relation get` in the relationship context will give you teh full output of whats coming over the wire, and give us a good frame of reference for debugging
[17:33] <lazyPower> to isolate if this is a juju bug or a postgresql charm bug
[17:34] <hackedbellini> lazyPower: how can I enter a debug-hooks session?
[17:34] <lazyPower> hackedbellini: juju debug-hooks service/#
[17:34] <lazyPower> this will place you in a tmux session - you'll want to open another terminal and issue the command `juju resolved --retry service/#`
[17:35] <lazyPower> assuming it wsa the relationship hook that failed - it should place you in the context of that relationship hook.
[17:37] <hackedbellini> lazyPower: it's not failing the service, unfortunately
[17:37] <lazyPower> hackedbellini: ok - so we have to go a bit deeper - do you have time to run through a another deployment of your service thats consuming postgres?
[17:38] <hackedbellini> lazyPower: what do you mean?
[17:39] <lazyPower> hackedbellini: adding another unit - attaching a debug-hooks session to that unit thats under deployment to obtain the data.
[17:39] <lazyPower> actually 1 moment, there may be a quicker way to do this
[17:39] <lazyPower> let me check the manpages
[17:46] <lazyPower> hackedbellini: looking over the code it appears this is coming from some kind of cached config - i'm having trouble locating where master_host is getting set as its a parameter, but thats whats being assigned to the host= var
[17:47] <lazyPower> hackedbellini: and this is with relation to postgresql clustering - it appears it does an internal quorem and sets this ip - which is the culprit - so its a bug against the postgresql charm
[17:48] <hackedbellini> lazyPower: hrmmm, I see. I'll take a look at the postgresql charm too to see if I can help you find where it's storing the cache
[17:48] <lazyPower> hackedbellini: can you file a bug against the postgresql charm about this? as I can foresee this being a major thorn in the side of any postgresql admins that experience an outage.
[17:49] <lazyPower> if we can't get to it, i bet stub can iron this out in a an iteration or two
[17:53] <hackedbellini> lazyPower: now that I saw, not only that... postgresql still have the gerrit's old ip on its pg_hba
[17:53] <stub> If changing the machine's ip does anything, it will call the config-changed hook. I don't think relation-changed hooks get triggered, so the new ip will never be published
[17:54] <stub> db_relation_joined_changed is calling hookenv.unit_private_ip() to get the ip, so it isn't cached afaict.
[17:54] <lazyPower> ah ok
[17:55] <hackedbellini> stub: so what can I do in this situation to force postgresql and gerrit to get their new ips?
[17:55] <lazyPower> i didn't get very deep in the code - i'm multi-tasking this, sorry about the red herring - your analysis is sound stub.
[17:55] <lazyPower> i can see that being the case.
[17:55] <stub> I may be out of date though. Last I heard, you can't change a units ip address for any service.
[17:56] <hackedbellini> stub: really?
[17:56] <stub> hackedbellini: like I said - I might be out of date.
[17:56] <stub> if you change the relation at the client end, it will invoke the server's relation-changed hook and the new host will be published.
[17:57] <hackedbellini> stub: hrm ok. But well, some ips changed =P. How can I change the "cache" that's holding those ips?
[17:57] <jcsackett> lazyPower: hey man, do you happen to know of any way to retrieve an environment password if you've lost your jenv files &c? this is on a a machine i still have non juju ssh access to (manual provider).
[17:57] <stub> juju run --unit=client/0 relation-set -r db:42 something=whatever
[17:57] <lazyPower> jcsackett: oo good question - I think its stored in mongodb but i dont have the foggiest idea where that document would be.
[17:57] <lazyPower> jcsackett: and i would imagine its salted in the database
[17:57] <hackedbellini> stub: hrmmmm, lets try that
[17:58] <stub> hackedbellini: Or you can just explicitly set the host attribute on the relation using juju run too
[17:58] <jcsackett> lazyPower: yeah, that's what i was afraid of. i have a whole owncloud and other stuff setup i don't want to get rid of, but i now have no juju access to it...had an HD die a few weeks ago and just now realized that juju env files weren't part of my backup...
[17:59] <stub> If I am out of date and you can change a units ip address after deployment, please file a bug :)
[17:59] <lazyPower> jcsackett: Really sorry to hear that - a core dev might be able to help you recover that info though.
[17:59] <hackedbellini> stub: the "-r db:42". What does that mean?
[17:59] <jcsackett> lazyPower: good point. i'll bug core. thanks.
[18:00] <hackedbellini> stub: juju recognized the ip change, but the realation is still getting the old one... maybe I need to run relation-set
[18:00] <hackedbellini> it shouldn't, but it's an acceptable solution atm =P
[18:00] <stub> hackedbellini: db:42 is an example relation id. 'juju-run --unit=client/0 relation-ids db' or 'db-admin' will list them
[18:01] <hackedbellini> stub: hrmmm, nice! Let me try that and I'll give you a feedback to say if that worked
[18:02] <stub> hackedbellini: Worst case, you can use juju run like this to override any values in the relation you like... just try not to blow your foot off :)
[18:02] <lazyPower> stub: you just dropped some science on me about -r relation:id
[18:04] <stub> lazyPower: Just test before repeating - I'm knee deep in something else and doing this by memory ;)
[18:05] <stub> launchpad.net/juju-relinfo if you want a plugin to reduce the typing for the relation-get/relation-sets
[18:06] <hackedbellini> stub: I think it worked! Thank you!
[18:06] <hackedbellini> and thank you lazyPower for taking the time to see that with me
[18:06] <stub> np
[18:06] <lazyPower> hackedbellini: no worries :) I'm happy we didn't traverse the original route i was proposing
[18:06] <lazyPower> that would have been long winded to determine blame
[19:01] <stub> Is there some way of telling amulet to deploy cs:precise/storage under trusty? Since I need to relate the subordinate to a trusty service?
[19:06] <lazyPower> stub: you'll need to make a local copy
[19:06] <stub> :-P
[19:06] <lazyPower> cd ~/charms/trusty && charm get cs:precise/storage -- that will effectively make a local trusty charm - and you'd deploy it like any other local charm.
[19:06] <lazyPower> ymmv if deps have changed between precise/trusty
[19:09] <stub> I'll try a custom branch via the charm store. I don't want to embed a copy of the storage charm in my charm just for running tests.
[19:11] <stub> Or do lp: urls work? Hmm...
[19:13] <stub> We should probably promulgate it to trusty anyway, since I think we are already running it in production :-/
[19:39] <marcoceppi> stub: personal branch in cs is best way
[19:51] <stub> lp: branch is working, with one less point of failure.
[19:52] <stub>         deployment.add('storage', 'lp:~stub/charms/trusty/storage/trunk')
[20:22] <PariahVi> Hello.  I am just starting to fully look into Juju charms rather than Juju-core and I had a question about the charms.  Would you run the charm's install script again if you wanted to update the package if it was not installed via apt-get?
[20:28] <thumper> PariahVi: normally there would be an upgrade hook that would do that
[20:28] <PariahVi> thumper: Okay.  Thank you.  This points me in the correct path of documentation reading. :)
[20:28] <thumper> np
[21:07] <drbidwell> I have a juju bootstrap that runs with a MAAS.  The bootstrap looks like it completed successfully and ends with "comamnd finished", but maas never changes the machine to a "deployed" state.  Any ideas why this might be?
[21:51] <johnmce> Hi guys. I just tried to get SSL enabled for the keystone charm. It doesn't work, and I note that there's no [ssl] section in any of the templates, nor does it appear in the keystone.conf on the target machines. Can anyone confirm that this is known to be broken?
[21:52] <johnmce> Obviously I've provided an SSL key and cert. The endpoint URLs show https, but that appears to be the only evidence of any attempt at SSL.
[22:08] <hatch> johnmce: If no one pops in with an answer to your question you might have better luck asking on askubuntu.com, the juju mailing list, or by contacting the charm maintainer
[22:39] <marcoceppi> johnmce: the SSL stuff is handled by a charm helper, I'm not sure the specifics of that charm as it's maintained by the Openstack Charmers team
[22:40] <marcoceppi> like hatch mentioned mailing the mailing list<EMAIL_ADDRESS>is a great way to get in touch with them. When I see it come in I can make sure it gets their attention
[22:47] <marcoceppi> drbidwell: try running juju bootstrap with the --debug flag
[22:47] <marcoceppi> drbidwell: also which versions of maas and juju are you using?
[22:54] <drbidwell> marcoceppi: maas 1.7.0 and juju-core is 1.20.13 for U14.04.1
[22:54] <drbidwell> I have the debug output also
[22:55] <marcoceppi> drbidwell: debug output is good, could you put it on http://paste.ubuntu.com
[22:55] <drbidwell> marcocceppi: http://pastebin.com/3LDxnQyy
[23:04] <dpb1> tvansteenburgh: does bundletester provide facilities for archiving logs?
[23:04] <dpb1> tvansteenburgh: specifically the unit logs
[23:04] <tvansteenburgh> dpb1: no
[23:05] <dpb1> tvansteenburgh: k, thx
[23:05] <tvansteenburgh> it would be a great feature though
[23:05] <tvansteenburgh> would like to add it eventually
[23:06] <dpb1> tvansteenburgh: yes, I'd like something like that, we have a script that does the same.  I might think of how to incorporate it.
[23:07] <tvansteenburgh> dpb1: great!
[23:09] <dpb1> tvansteenburgh: is tests/test.yaml used?  I put some 'packages' in there and it doesn't seem to influence anything
[23:10] <tvansteenburgh> dpb1: yep
[23:11] <dpb1> tvansteenburgh: http://paste.ubuntu.com/9433320/
[23:11] <dpb1> tvansteenburgh: does that look right?
[23:11] <tvansteenburgh> yeah
[23:13] <tvansteenburgh> keep in mind your venv probably isn't seeing sys pkgs
[23:14] <tvansteenburgh> and we don't have a way to pip install via that yaml file (yet)
[23:16] <tvansteenburgh> so a 00-setup.sh that installs pkgs is probably the best solution when running in a venv right now
[23:19] <tvansteenburgh> dpb1: hope that helps, i gotta EOD
[23:22] <dpb1> tvansteenburgh: yes, that helps
[23:22] <dpb1> and matches what I'm seeing
[23:35] <Micromus> So, is Juju as good as it looks from the website??
[23:37] <LinStatSDR> Micromus: It absolutely is.
[23:38] <Micromus> I don't believe it :P
[23:39] <LinStatSDR> I got a full private cloud running with under 10 commands.
[23:40] <Micromus> I was looking to deploy cloudstack for testing, figured openstack was still immature, but canonical just released a new version quite recently, no? with a lot of juju magic integrated with it?
[23:40] <LinStatSDR> Micromus: You should, that's the future of things. IoT, Cloud yada yada
[23:40] <LinStatSDR> You can install Openstack on a single system in under an hour
[23:40] <Micromus> Sure, installing something is one thing, but maintaining and using it is another
[23:41] <sarnold> Micromus: openstack is deployed on hundreds of thousands of systems, if not millions
[23:41] <LinStatSDR> I don't find clicking and dragging to be terribly difficult to manage.
[23:41] <Micromus> doesn't mean it's a fit for us though
[23:41] <LinStatSDR> oO
[23:42] <Micromus> hehe, I just spent several days trying to configure a Ceph cluster, and giving up in the end, so everything that shines is not gold
[23:42] <LinStatSDR> I have not found a solution such as OpenStack and Juju that is more effecient, powerful, reliable and FREE than said solutions
[23:42] <Micromus> that said, I'm really looking forward to trying the new ubuntu openstack "thingie"
[23:43] <LinStatSDR> What is your background with computing?
[23:43] <Micromus> I bought 9 used serverblades on ebay privately to start testing cloud stuff
[23:43] <Micromus> about 10 years of network and system administration
[23:43] <LinStatSDR> There is a lot of research and knowledge, as nice as I made it sound you do have to have a wide range of system knowledge
[23:44] <LinStatSDR> Oh okay, anything on the Unix / Linux side? Most of it can be handled through ssh
[23:44] <Micromus> mostly networking, but networks often need some servers and other stuff to have a purpose
[23:44] <LinStatSDR> It would be most beneficial to have a strong background in Linux type systems.
[23:44] <LinStatSDR> For troubleshooting at least.
[23:44] <Micromus> run 50 linux servers yes
[23:44] <LinStatSDR> Ah no worries then.
[23:45] <LinStatSDR> Micromus: Now your type of deployment is different if you got 9 blades you're going to use for it.
[23:45] <Micromus> familiar with googling and troubleshooting, even if that is not what i enjoy spending my time doing
[23:45] <Micromus> I'll probably use 3 of the blades for testing openstack
[23:45] <LinStatSDR> Micromus: So you would most likely want to use MaaS and manage them through landscape or something.
[23:46] <LinStatSDR> Micromus: Specs on those blades pretty good?
[23:46] <Micromus> At work we are looking to replace VMware, so the more  of our new services, and legacy stuff, we can get on a "cloud" solution the better
[23:47] <Micromus> nah, bought used on ebay for $2500, combined :P
[23:47] <LinStatSDR> That would be a great replacement, Juju and openstack platform
[23:47] <Micromus> 48gb ram, 2x1tb disk, 6 core cpu
[23:47] <LinStatSDR> Total? or each?
[23:47] <Micromus> Each
[23:47] <LinStatSDR> You bought 9 blades with those specs 2500?
[23:47] <sarnold> nice
[23:47] <Micromus> Yep :D
[23:47] <LinStatSDR> You lucky...
[23:48] <Micromus> Shipped them with container to norway, installed in the basement
[23:48] <LinStatSDR> Seems like you're bottle neck is the HDDs
[23:48] <Micromus> probably, there are 2 free slots for each blade tho
[23:48] <LinStatSDR> Not to be too blunt, but at least in my particular experience it is very heavy on the IOPS
[23:49] <Micromus> What is?
[23:49] <LinStatSDR> Openstack Platform and such, especially Juju
[23:49] <Micromus> When deploying stuff, or continously?
[23:49] <LinStatSDR> Raid 1 at minimum, raid 5,6 or 10
[23:51] <Micromus> I just deployed a 3 node cluster of HBase in the weekend, using Ambari for deployment, very good stuff
[23:51] <LinStatSDR> In general, but it depends on the number of users you'll have, for testing, it may seem fine but add a few users, depending on network congestion, cpu, ram and hdd utilization at the time you'll find it will slow down considerably
[23:51] <Micromus> Yep, thats why it's good to have some hardware to play with and set stuff up and test actual workloads on
[23:52] <Micromus> Before we go buy hardware for production, without knowing what to optimize for
[23:52] <LinStatSDR> My testing environment isn't the best but after establishing performance baselines with expected vs actual I have came to that conclusion
[23:52] <LinStatSDR> Are you using MaaS at all?
[23:52] <Micromus> Never heard of MaaS
[23:53] <LinStatSDR> Are you using Ubuntu or debian?
[23:53] <Micromus> debian today
[23:53] <Micromus> and centos6 for ambari/hadoop-cluster, since debian is not supported yet
[23:53] <LinStatSDR> I use Ubuntu but I suppose it doesn't matter. https://maas.ubuntu.com/ You should check it out. MaaS is very, very nice and Juju can orchestrate that very well
[23:54] <Micromus> I like the review of Charms etc
[23:55] <Micromus> I believe one of the problems with FOSS is lack of accountability, and actual review of stuff before it is "passed on"
[23:55] <LinStatSDR> The only gripe I have about Juju is that there are far more charms and bundles than what show up when "Searching"
[23:55] <Micromus> So as a receiver/consumer of FOSS products, you get a lot of surprises  on docs, quality, whatnot
[23:55] <LinStatSDR> Micromus: Accountability? Why?
[23:56] <Micromus> What I mean is, there are too many morons releasing too much crap
[23:56] <LinStatSDR> Only add PPA's that are stable.
[23:56] <Micromus> Making it hard to actually believe when something great, like Juju seems to be, actually appears :)
[23:57] <Micromus> I will definetely look at maas/juju/ubuntu openstack for our new DC deployment which I hope wll get budgeted for next year
[23:58] <LinStatSDR> Juju is wonderful, simple and easy. Juju along with the associated platform/platforms requires a significant amount of knowledge about not only their software products but in every area.
[23:58] <Micromus> Also seeing a fairly large, and very welcomming, irc channel is also a huuge plus for any product/ecosystem
[23:59] <LinStatSDR> Micromus: The Canonical Dist for OpenStack, http://www.ubuntu.com/download/cloud/install-ubuntu-openstack
[23:59] <Micromus> Indeed, that is why it is such a big commitment to go down one road, with regards to asociated platforms etc
[23:59] <Micromus> And why it's so important that the system can be set up for testing in minimal amount of time, since maybe one has to test multiple alternatives


[16:31] <Noboru55> Hello, why the mouse appearance change inside the chromium-browser?
[16:31] <Noboru55> it only happens when the mouse is working on chromium.
[19:57] <SiggiAZE> accept
[19:58] <SiggiAZE> good evening
[19:58] <SiggiAZE> @ll


[05:20] <cpaelzer> good morning
[14:35] <lucasmoura> rbasak, just to confirm, there is still no updates on the review of release 27.8 of UA right ? (And sorry if I missed any updates on your part about that)
[14:49] <rbasak> lucasmoura: sorry I've not got to it. And I'm at a sprint next week :-/
[14:59] <rbasak> lucasmoura: it only just occurred to me that the review is much smaller than usual because I'd already done it for Jammy. So done now and approved, just need sponsorship
[14:59] <lucasmoura> Awesome, thanks rbasak
[14:59] <lucasmoura> paride, can you sponsor release 27.8 for the older series ?
[15:14] <paride> lucasmoura, in a call, then I'll proceed
[15:14] <lucasmoura> Thanks paride
[15:43] <paride> lucasmoura, done
[15:46] <lucasmoura> rbasak, I think the packages can be uploaded to proposed now
[18:27] <blackboxsw> hey folks. https://code.launchpad.net/builders for amd64 seem  to be underwater in build queues given the recent release or kinetic and building packages for the new series. cloud-init has a number of daily PPA builder recipes that have been "stuck" for over 12 hours after an initial source pkg build. Do we generally know how long we should wait and where we should raise a flag to determine if build jobs need to be
[18:27] <blackboxsw> canceled/re-submitted?
[18:29] <ahasenack> blackboxsw: ppas are paused, see the topic in the internal launchpad channel
[18:29] <ahasenack> I posted it to our internal server channel as well the other day
[18:29] <ahasenack> (i.e., it's been ongoing for days)
[18:30] <blackboxsw> roger thanks ahasenack I figured something was up there thank you
[18:30] <blackboxsw> glad folks are aware of it