[03:16] <zarul> can someone help me with my email
[03:18] <zarul> any canonical sys-admin here?
[03:19] <zarul> the mail sent to me wasn't forwarded to my mailbox
[09:03] <carlos_> morning
[09:06] <somerville32> Morning Carlos! :)
[09:35] <Ubugtu> New bug: #75716 in rosetta "Translation form should not have any 'action' attribute" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/75716
[09:51] <Ubugtu> New bug: #75718 in launchpad "Notification email useless when adding a expire date to a membership" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/75718
[10:38] <poolie_> just me or is malone kind of today?
[10:39] <sabdfl> SteveA, poolie_: i'm on the conf call
[10:52] <danilos> carlos: hi, what happenned with feisty opening?
[10:52] <carlos> danilos: I need to talk with kiko
[10:52] <carlos> he didn't tell me anything
[10:52] <danilos> carlos: ok
[10:52] <danilos> carlos: I am just wondering, since I don't remember anything definite coming out of discussion; thanks
[10:52] <carlos> np
[11:04] <cprov> morning guys
[11:06] <carlos> cprov: morning
[11:18] <kiko-afk> yawn
[11:27] <kiko-afk> matthewrevell, there's a first post to launchpad-users that you might want to look at.
[11:27] <matthewrevell> kiko-afk: Thanks, I'll take a look now.
[11:38] <SteveA> poolie_: ping
[11:38] <poolie_> fell off
[11:38] <poolie_> back in a sec
[11:38] <poolie_> feh
[11:38] <SteveA> skype?
[11:39] <poolie_> leader has not yet arrived
[11:39] <poolie_> yep
[11:46] <aa_> good morning :)
[11:47] <aa_> so, a while ago I wrote a launchpad bug reporting lib, quite simple python stuff, and now it doesn't work any more. It almost works, in that logging in and cookies and everything haven't changed. But can someone give me a quick heads up on whether reporting itself has changed?
[11:49] <aa_> oh I found it, I get an error
Please fill in the form.

[11:49] <aa_> eeexcellent, thanks
[11:51] <aa_> in fact, before I continue on this craziness, did an RPC materialize?
[11:57] <aa_> ok, it was the change of form field submit button from UPDATE_SUBMIT to FORM_SUBMIT
[11:57] <aa_> (that was fun)
[12:00] <aa_> ok, now down to the main issue. I want to split my product up into mini-products and make the original product into a ?project. Is that going to be possible or is it going to cause a great deal of pain?
[12:14] <BjornT> aa_: for filing bugs there is an XML-RPC API. https://help.launchpad.net/MaloneXMLRPC
[12:15] <BjornT> aa_: it's not stable yet, so it might change in the future. in fact, in a few weeks the URL probably will change.
[12:15] <aa_> BjornT: ok, well since my "evil hack over plain http" works I will wait
[12:15] <jamesh> BjornT: do you know of anyone using that API?
[12:17] <BjornT> jamesh: no, don't know. and if the webstats aren't lying, no one is using it yet.
[12:17] <aa_> hmm...actually that looks so easy to replace, I am happy to start using it
[12:17] <jamesh> BjornT: okay.  We should advertise /bugs as the endpoint rather than /malone
[12:17] <jamesh> I'll make the change on that wiki page
[12:17] <BjornT> jamesh: does /bugs work already?
[12:17] <aa_> can you just call it stable too please?
[12:17] <jamesh> BjornT: yeah
[12:18] <jamesh> BjornT: https://launchpad.net/malone and https://launchpad.net/bugs currently show the same content
[12:19] <BjornT> ah, cool.
[12:33] <ddaa> time of the day
[12:43] <aa_> excellent, I have just used the xmlrpc and it works perfectly. Am switching my application's bug reporting mechanism over to it unless someone tells me it's a bad idea
[12:46] <jordi> carlos: is there a plan to rollout the translation reverting fix soonish?
[12:46] <carlos> jordi: Friday
[12:46] <carlos> that's tomorrow
[12:46] <jordi> good
[12:46] <jordi> should I announce?
[12:46] <jordi> or we can wait until it's happened
[12:46] <carlos> let's wait for the rollout, just in case there is any problem with it
[12:46] <jordi> right
[12:53] <stu1> aa_: Are you using https://xmlrpc.launchpad.net/malone or https://xmlrpc.launchpad.net/bugs as the XML-RPC URL? We where wondering if anyone was using the former and if we need to keep supporting it?
[12:54] <stu1> Its hard to tell from the logs since we can't separate serious use from random tests
[01:00] <kiko> me
[01:00] <flacoste> meeting time?
[01:00] <danilos> kiko: you
[01:00] <danilos> ;)
[01:00] <jordi> I'm here, but will be out for 2 mins
[01:00] <SteveA> hi
[01:00] <SteveA> it's meeting time
[01:00] <jordi> not to repeat last week's mistake :)
[01:00] <jordi> me!
[01:00] <SteveA> welcome to the launchpad developers meeting
[01:01] <SteveA> who is here today?
[01:01] <spiv> danilos: I don't think he's really here, it's probably just a script on a timer ;)
[01:01] <matsubara> me
[01:01] <thumper> here
[01:01] <danilos> me
[01:01] <kiko> spiv!
[01:01] <salgado> me
[01:01] <spiv> me
[01:01] <carlos> me
[01:01] <matthewrevell> here
[01:01] <jamesh> me
[01:01] <spiv> kiko: hehe
[01:01] <BjornT> me
[01:01] <danilos> spiv: right, makes sense :)
[01:01] <heno> hello
[01:01] <kiko> the nerve
[01:01] <flacoste> me (for a few hours)
[01:01] <cprov> me
[01:01] <kiko> I hope to be me for more than a few hours
[01:01] <SteveA> ddaa?
[01:02] <flacoste> kiko: well, you're not having a baby ;-)
[01:02] <ddaa> here
[01:02] <SteveA> hi david
[01:02] <SteveA> I'd like to welcome Henrik (heno) who is representing the Ubuntu distro team
[01:02] <stub> me
[01:02] <kiko> flacoste, I am physiologically challenged!
[01:02] <thumper> hi heno
[01:02] <heno> hello all!
[01:03] <SteveA> heno will be a regular at these meetings for a while, to see if we can get some good communication going between launchpad development and the needs of the ubuntu people
[01:03] <SteveA> today's agenda is pretty big
[01:03] <kiko> wow, great to hear
[01:04] <SteveA> so I'm going to be quite strict about moving items forward
[01:04] <kiko> heno, I want to know more about our bounty btw
[01:04] <SteveA>
[01:04] <SteveA> == Agenda ==
[01:04] <SteveA>  * Roll call
[01:04] <SteveA>  * Agenda
[01:04] <SteveA>  * Next meeting
[01:04] <SteveA>  * Activity reports
[01:04] <SteveA>  * Actions from last meeting
[01:04] <SteveA>  * Oops report (Matsubara)
[01:04] <SteveA>  * Bug report report (mpt)
[01:04] <SteveA>  * Production and staging (Stuart)
[01:04] <stub> A big, strict agenda. oooh.
[01:04] <SteveA>  * Launchpad 1.0 status reports
[01:04] <SteveA>  * Sysadmin requests
[01:04] <SteveA> ----
[01:04] <SteveA>  * Upcoming work on documentation (Matthew Revell)
[01:04] <SteveA>  * Reorganising dbschema (Steve)
[01:04] <SteveA>  * Standalone or story pagetests (Danilo/Steve)
[01:04] <SteveA>  * Fix-it Fridays (FiF) (Steve/Kiko)
[01:04] <SteveA>  * Canonical names, testing on beta (Stuart)
[01:04] <SteveA>  * (other items)
[01:04] <SteveA> ----
[01:04] <SteveA>  * Keep, Bag, Change
[01:04] <SteveA>  * Three sentences
[01:04] <SteveA>
[01:04] <SteveA> next meeting: same time next week
[01:05] <spiv> Sounds good.
[01:05] <thumper> :(
[01:05] <BjornT> i'm on vacation next week
[01:05] <stub> When is that enforced vacation thingy?
[01:05] <SteveA> thumper: noted
[01:05] <flacoste> i will be on parental leave next week
[01:05] <salgado> stub, between christmas and new year
[01:06] <stub> I'm here then
[01:06] <SteveA>  * Activity reports
[01:06] <ddaa> uptodate
[01:06] <SteveA> I suck at activity reports next week
[01:06] <flacoste> up to date
[01:06] <stub> uptodate
[01:06] <SteveA> um, this week
[01:06] <matsubara> up to date
[01:06] <thumper> up to date
[01:06] <danilos> up to date
[01:06] <carlos> up to date
[01:06] <ddaa> SteveA: that was preemptive :)
[01:06] <BjornT> up to date
[01:06] <matthewrevell> need to do tues, weds and today
[01:07] <jordi> not up to date. missing my last two.
[01:07] <kiko> I am up to date but I need to send my reports out, I have them here
[01:07] <cprov> not up, started again on tuesday
[01:07] <salgado> up to date, but I still need to send a summary of the days I forgot
[01:07] <jamesh> not up to date
[01:07] <spiv> not up to date
[01:07] <carlos> kiko: cheater! that's not being up to date! :-P
[01:08] <SteveA> yeah, I'm the same as kiko, honest ;-)
[01:08] <kiko> yeah well
[01:08] <SteveA>  * Actions from last meeting
[01:08] <SteveA>  * spiv to finish the damn `__eq__` for database objects action item
[01:08] <SteveA> spiv:
[01:08] <SteveA> ?
[01:08] <spiv> SteveA: there's a branch in your review queue.
[01:08] <kiko> I think I was meant to help spiv look at some test failures for that
[01:08] <kiko> but I failed at that!
[01:08] <spiv> kiko: I figured them out, it's ok :)
[01:09] <SteveA> ok, so action item on me, to review it
[01:09] <SteveA> thanks
[01:09] <kiko> great to hear spiv
[01:09] <SteveA>  * Oops report (Matsubara)
[01:09] <matsubara> Today's oops report is about bug 47377.
[01:09] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 47377 in launchpad "+editgpgkeys sometimes timeout." [Medium,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/47377
[01:09] <matsubara> The +editpgpkeys page sometimes timeout with a high non-sql time while "claiming the gpg key".
[01:09] <matsubara> cprov, you left a comment in browser/person.py saying that we should process the gpg claim action through the NotificationEngine. What does that mean?
[01:09] <spiv> SteveA: perhaps we ought to schedule a call -- I wouldn't mind discussing the way it's fixed.
[01:09] <SteveA> spiv: sure.  tomorrow looks good.
[01:09] <jamesh> matsubara: while waiting for the keyserver, maybe?
[01:10] <SteveA> spiv: name a time after 9.30 UTC
[01:10] <spiv> SteveA: great
[01:10] <kiko> matsubara, it has nothing to do with the keyserver or timeout, at any rate. :)
[01:10] <matsubara> and is there any way to reproduce that locally?
[01:10] <kiko> matsubara, run the local keyserver and then suspend the process
[01:10] <kiko> and then try to validate the gpg key?
[01:10] <SteveA> also
[01:10] <cprov> matsubara: let me check the code ...
[01:10] <SteveA> there's a principle I want to note here
[01:11] <jamesh> for these sort of things, it'd be nice if we could create ad-hoc checkpoints that get recorded in an OOPS
[01:11] <Keybuk> carlos: ping?
[01:11] <SteveA> any time we call out to an external thing, like the database for queries, or the keyserver
[01:11] <SteveA> or do significant filesystem stuff
[01:11] <jamesh> so we can see exactly how much time it took
[01:11] <SteveA> we should time that and record that time
[01:11] <SteveA> jamesh: would you take on the task of developing infrastructure and an API for that?
[01:11] <carlos> Keybuk: pong (please, move this to other channel or private msg, we are in a meeting)
[01:11] <jamesh> SteveA: sure.
[01:11] <spiv> SteveA: I'll mail you with a time
[01:11] <SteveA> thanks jamesh
[01:11] <SteveA> spiv: when will you mail?
[01:12] <matsubara> well, since we're have a long agenda, cprov could you leave your comments in the bug report?
[01:12] <spiv> SteveA: tomorrow, i.e. 12 hours from now (I need to double-check my plans for that evening)
[01:13] <SteveA> spiv: that won't work
[01:13] <matsubara> I'll try to reproduce that locally later doing what kiko suggested.
[01:13] <SteveA> 12 hours from now, I'll be asleep
[01:13] <cprov> kiko: well, if say NotificationEngine can't sort keyserver timeouts, the XXX doesn't fit very well.
[01:13] <cprov> matsubara: I will do.
[01:13] <matsubara> moving on to the Bug report report
[01:14] <matsubara> Bug report report:
[01:14] <matsubara> We have 7 critical open bugs:
[01:14] <matsubara> Bug 30602(Timeout errors in +translate); Assigned to kiko
[01:14] <matsubara> Bug 44214(We need to add code to prevent POFiles being in the same path); Assigned to carlos
[01:14] <matsubara> Bug 46982(Need to support KDE like plural forms); Assigned to danilos
[01:14] <matsubara> Bug 71283(Allow non-authenticated rendering of +translate pages); Assigned to carlos
[01:14] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 30602 in rosetta "Timeout errors in +translate" [Critical,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/30602
[01:14] <matsubara> Bug 73509(.po file export doesn't update cached files); Assigned to carlos
[01:14] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 44214 in rosetta "We need to add code to prevent POFiles being in the same path" [Critical,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/44214
[01:14] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46982 in rosetta "Need to support KDE like plural forms" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46982
[01:14] <matsubara> Bug 75333(Restrict pockets that upload translations into Rosetta); Assigned to carlos
[01:14] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 71283 in rosetta "Allow non-authenticated rendering of +translate pages" [Critical,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/71283
[01:14] <matsubara> Bug 74839(Dropdown menus in 1.0 UI do not drop down); Assigned to mpt
[01:14] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 73509 in rosetta ".po file export doesn't update cached files" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73509
[01:14] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 75333 in rosetta "Restrict pockets that upload translations into Rosetta" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/75333
[01:14] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 74839 in launchpad "Dropdown menus in 1.0 UI do not drop down" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/74839
[01:14] <matsubara> mpt is not here to comment on the last one.
[01:14] <SteveA> the last one, mpt will do next week
[01:14] <kiko> matsubara, the timeout one is still pending work, but it's not higher on my stack.
[01:14] <matsubara> all the others are rosetta related. so please guys, how are they going?
[01:14] <carlos> matsubara: bug #44214 has a conditional merge, and should be merged between today and tomorrow
[01:15] <kiko> matsubara, non-authenticated rendering is pending review by me
[01:15] <kiko> the rest is not started
[01:15] <danilos> 46982 same stuff all over again: depending on firefox, should be simple once firefox support lands
[01:15] <salgado> side note: maybe we could have Ubugtu to show the assignee of a bug. that way the bug report report would only have to list the bug numbers
[01:15] <carlos> matsubara: bugs #73509 and #75333 needs to be started. I hope next week
[01:15] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 73509 in rosetta ".po file export doesn't update cached files" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73509
[01:15] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 75333 in rosetta "Restrict pockets that upload translations into Rosetta" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/75333
[01:15] <matsubara> good idea salgado. Seveas isn't here but I'll ask him.
[01:16] <SteveA> or have ubugtu understand "please be quiet for 1 minute"
[01:16] <SteveA> I like your idea better, though
[01:16] <danilos> carlos: you want me to take on 73509? I've been going around export code a bit lately, so I am fine with that
[01:17] <matsubara> kiko: shouldn't the 30602 be a priority?
[01:17] <kiko> matsubara, it /is/ a priority. what do you mean? :-)
[01:17] <carlos> danilos: ok, go ahead. But please, close your open branches first...
[01:17] <matsubara> higher in your stack kiko :)
[01:17] <danilos> carlos: right
[01:17] <carlos> danilos: I'm talking about the small ones
[01:17] <jamesh> or have ubungtu not repeat a particular bug's description more than once in 5 minutes
[01:17] <danilos> carlos: I know
[01:18] <carlos> danilos: just noting it, I don't expect you finish with all your big branches before looking into that critical bug ;-)
[01:18] <SteveA> matsubara: how are we doing on this item?
[01:18] <matsubara> danilos: that ff is taking a lot of time, kiko offered to help you last week. did you talk to him?
[01:19] <kiko> matsubara, that's a long story.
[01:19] <matsubara> well, then I'm done here. thanks SteveA, thanks everyone.
[01:19] <kiko> I suggest we move on, I'll fill matsubara in offline and then he'll have updated info next week
[01:19] <SteveA> thanks for doing both the oops report and the bug report matsubara
[01:19] <kiko> my fingers are snagging
[01:19] <SteveA>  * Production and staging (Stuart)
[01:19] <stub> Nothing interesting happening with current production and staging.
[01:19] <stub> There is a planned rollout tomorrow, as mentioned in email to the Launchpad list. We already have cherry pick requests for some showstopper bugs that have been picked up on staging, and at least one more to come in.
[01:19] <stub> So I'd like to know if people feel comfortable with the rollout tomorrow or if we should defer the rollout until more testing of recent landings can be done.
[01:20] <SteveA> if anyone has a "defer" or "maybe defer" say now
[01:20] <SteveA> 5
[01:20] <SteveA> 4
[01:20] <SteveA> 3
[01:20] <SteveA> 2
[01:20] <SteveA> 1
[01:20] <SteveA> 0
[01:20] <jamesh> if we leave the rollout much longer, there won't be much time to test it before the holidays
[01:20] <SteveA> there you go stub.  thanks for asking.
[01:21] <stub> ok
[01:21] <jamesh> so probably do it now or after the break
[01:21] <kiko> jamesh is right
[01:21] <kiko> and we've waited for long enough
[01:21] <danilos> yeah, SteveA already counted down from 5
[01:21] <SteveA>  * Launchpad 1.0 status reports
[01:22] <ddaa> supermirror-smart-server: spiv just sent a RT with the configuration details to enable the http (read-only) supermirror smart server
[01:22] <danilos> Rosetta 1.0  weekly report:
[01:22] <danilos> - opening edgy for translation: DONE
[01:22] <danilos> - firefox import/export: ff-export done, full ff support minus some tests done
[01:22] <danilos> - oo import/export: no progress this week
[01:22] <danilos> - translation review: new UI + copy buttons being landed right now. Missing parts: UI changes from kiko and specific review interface
[01:22] <danilos> - essential docs: no progress this week
[01:22] <flacoste> Support^W Answer Tracker 1.0
[01:22] <flacoste> ----------------------------
[01:22] <flacoste> SupportTrackerViews: The missing 'Needs Attention' report
[01:22] <flacoste> SupportTrackerHelp: Completed. Should be reviewed.
[01:22] <flacoste> LocalizedSupportRequests: Will be rolled out tomorrow.
[01:22] <flacoste> SupportTrackerRenaming: spec still in review for kiko
[01:22] <danilos> - search via translation browsing: implemented, waiting for review from kiko
[01:22] <danilos> - checks not to upload wrong language PO file using "too many changes" check: not started
[01:22] <danilos> - translation page for projects: bug 73875 (not started)
[01:22] <Ubugtu> Bug 73875 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/73875 is private
[01:22] <danilos> - ui fixes: DONE
[01:22] <SteveA> ddaa: I need to talk with you and spiv and poolie about the sm-ss
[01:22] <cprov> = Soyuz-1.0 Report =
[01:22] <cprov>
[01:22] <cprov>  * Archive Rework: pending review (cprov, r=kiko)
[01:22] <cprov>  * PPA: ppa-build-support & ppa-poppy & ppa-publish & ppa-upload-support
[01:22] <cprov>        (cprov, w-i-p)
[01:22] <cprov>  * NoMoreAptFtparchive: Done (yay)
[01:22] <cprov>  * Code quality:
[01:22] <cprov>    * NascentUpload first refactoring (kiko, under development)
[01:22] <cprov>  * Bug Fix:
[01:22] <cprov>    * #71845 (SHA256 on Release files): pending review (cprov, r=flacoste)
[01:22] <cprov>    * #66838 (sync-source fixes & tests): commited (cprov, r=kiko)
[01:22] <cprov>    * #74803 (MissingDSCSigningKey): committed (cprov, r=bjornt)
[01:22] <cprov>    * #73836 (PackageCacheFix): committed (cprov, r=bjorn, stub)
[01:22] <cprov>    * #73761 (support for any-i386 and linux-i386): committed (malcc, r=jamesh)
[01:22] <BjornT> Malone 1.0:
[01:22] <BjornT> upstream-forwarding-workflow: No news, merged to RF, but not in production yet.
[01:22] <BjornT> series-and-distrorelease-mgmt: Merged into RF.
[01:23] <BjornT> guided-filebug-form: No new, merged into RF.
[01:23] <BjornT> removing-duplicate-comments: No news, still implemented.
[01:23] <BjornT> malone-essential-docs: No progress since last time, it's started though.
[01:23] <BjornT> simple-bug-keywords: No news, still implemented.
[01:23] <flacoste> SupportTrackerViews: The missing 'Needs Attention' report will be rolled out tomorrow.
[01:23] <salgado> - SearchingProjects: landed
[01:23] <salgado> - PillarGotchis:  got a nice Image widget up for review and the db changes have already landed. once the image widget has landed it's only a matter of embedding it into any forms we want
[01:23] <kiko> salgado, (and rewriting the forms to be LFVs :-)
[01:23] <salgado> that's optional, actually
[01:24] <kiko> you can use the widget without?
[01:24] <salgado> the widget works with GFV/EditView/etc
[01:24] <jamesh> LaunchpadFormView is using the same widget framework as the old forms
[01:24] <SteveA> for now...
[01:24] <SteveA> watch this space in january
[01:25] <kiko> salgado, that's funny given what you said yesterday
[01:25] <jamesh> we do want to port the old forms over though ...
[01:25] <kiko> but whatever
[01:25] <SteveA> what jamesh said
[01:25] <salgado> I think I said it'd be nice to port them, kiko
[01:25] <SteveA> ok
[01:25] <SteveA> moving along
[01:25] <SteveA>  * Sysadmin requests
[01:25] <SteveA> 5
[01:25] <SteveA> 4
[01:25] <spiv> RT #26258
[01:25] <salgado> (or at least that's what I meant)
[01:25] <SteveA> which is?
[01:25] <spiv> (but it was only filed a few hours ago)
[01:25] <kiko> SteveA, TBH, I'd like 1.0 report for the UI work as well
[01:25] <spiv> To enable bzr smart server over http on http://bazaar.launchpad.net/
[01:25] <kiko> so consider it for next week?
[01:25] <aa_> stub: I am now using /bugs, I have updated the UI, and it seems to work nicely
[01:26] <jamesh> stub filed RT #26237
[01:26] <SteveA> ok... not critical, so we'll just let the admins do that in their normal process
[01:26] <stub> aa_: Cool :-)
[01:26] <jamesh> about changing the URL for the bugzilla.ubuntu.com redirect
[01:26] <SteveA> kiko: that's missing while mpt is not here
[01:26] <kiko> aa_, /bugs?
[01:26] <aa_> now to reject 50 test bugs
[01:26] <jamesh> so it doesn't break when we roll out the short URLs
[01:26] <stub> jamesh: And they have done it already
[01:26] <kiko> SteveA, was it being done before?
[01:26] <jamesh> stub: great!
[01:26] <SteveA> kiko: talk to me later
[01:27] <kiko> ha ha
[01:27] <SteveA> what is RT #26237
[01:27] <SteveA> ?
[01:27] <aa_> kiko: XMLRPC<EMAIL_ADDRESS>% (un, pw)) or so
[01:27] <SteveA> oh, jamesh said
[01:27] <jamesh> SteveA: apparently already addressed.
[01:27] <SteveA> ok, cool
[01:27] <SteveA>  * Upcoming work on documentation (Matthew Revell)
[01:27] <matthewrevell> Howdy all
[01:27] <matthewrevell> At present, I'm working on a plan for completely rewritten Launchpad documentation, to live at help.launchpad.net.
[01:28] <matthewrevell> I'd like to divide documentation into two rough categories:
[01:28] <matthewrevell> 1. Quick-start guides: take a relatively inexperienced user through each step of a common task - e.g. filing a bug - with minimal explanation of the background to what they're doing.
[01:28] <matthewrevell> 2. A Launchpad manual: explains how to use all of Launchpad, aiming to teach the user how LP fits together so that they can work out how to do things for themselves.
[01:28] <matthewrevell> I'm aiming for one new quick-start guide each week and am presently working on timescales for the fuller docs.
[01:28] <matthewrevell> If you have any comments or would like to contribute to the documentation, please let me know.
[01:28] <SteveA> thanks matthewrevell
[01:28] <ddaa> I got a comment
[01:28] <SteveA> I propse discussion of this on the launchpad-users mailing list
[01:28] <ddaa> THAT'S ONE HONKING GREAT PLAN!
[01:28] <kiko> aa_, right
[01:28] <matthewrevell> :)
[01:28] <SteveA> thanks ddaa
[01:28] <SteveA> I'm excited about having quick-start guides
[01:29] <SteveA>  * Reorganising dbschema (Steve)
[01:29] <aa_> oh this is a meeting isn't it :|
[01:29] <kiko> matthewrevell, how will this interact with the existing documentation?
[01:29] <thumper> +1
[01:29] <carlos> aa_: yeah. we will be done in 15 minutes
[01:29] <SteveA> so, there was some discussion about reorganising the dbschemas with some great ideas from various people
[01:29] <SteveA> tomorrow, I'll be writing up a spec incorporating the ideas
[01:29] <SteveA> I'd like someone to take on implementing the spec
[01:29] <matthewrevell> kiko: I'd like to incorporate as much of the existing help.lp.net as possible, perhaps to be written for style etc.
[01:30] <SteveA> I don't think it's a big task.  thumper are you interested?
[01:30] <thumper> SteveA: yep
[01:30] <matthewrevell> kiko: I'd also like the 1.0 in-page help to link out to the new docs
[01:30] <SteveA> thanks
[01:30] <matthewrevell> kiko: for further reading on the same topic
[01:30] <Ubugtu> New bug: #75743 in rosetta ""Empty" PO files shouldn't be included in export" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/75743
[01:30] <SteveA> kiko, matthewrevell: I think this is a good conversation.  I'd like it to occur on launchpad-users to get a wider audience for it.  It's important.
[01:31] <matthewrevell> SteveA: I'll post to the list to kick it off
[01:31] <SteveA> thanks
[01:31] <SteveA>  * Standalone or story pagetests (Danilo/Steve)
[01:31] <kiko> matthewrevell, okay, well, each team had a 1.0 docs target, so you'd do well to see what has been done on those fronts. flacoste has done almost all of his, BjornT has started his, and others are either starting or not started.
[01:31] <SteveA> So, danilo and I were having a reviewers' call about testing firefox po exports
[01:31] <danilos> ok, so it probably needs introduction from me
[01:31] <SteveA> and danilo had been planning to add a new page test into the long rosetta story
[01:31] <SteveA> as 65-whatever.txt
[01:31] <matthewrevell> kiko: thanks for the background
[01:31] <SteveA> right danilos ?
[01:32] <danilos> I got the impression that we should avoid having too many standalone tests, because of the performance issues
[01:32] <danilos> SteveA, right
[01:32] <SteveA> we determined that this new pagetest can stand alone -- it isn't necessary as part of the story
[01:32] <SteveA> so I would like it to stand alone, for two reasons
[01:32] <SteveA> 1. so that we preserve the knowledge that it does not depend on other page tests running first
[01:32] <SteveA> 2. so that it can be run on its own easily
[01:33] <SteveA> danilo was concerned about the extra overhead in test setup time
[01:33] <stub> If standalone tests don't make database changes then there should be no performance penalty
[01:33] <SteveA> that's a valid concern, but we shouldn't optimise that by losing out to points 1 and 2
[01:33] <danilos> i.e. db reinits with each test, and "make check" taking forever
[01:33] <SteveA> danilos: don't run make check
[01:33] <jamesh> on my machine it is ~ half a second setup per page test
[01:33] <SteveA> use the facilities to run specific tests or sets of tests
[01:33] <SteveA> and if we need better such facilities, we should develop them
[01:34] <jamesh> which isn't huge
[01:34] <SteveA> but we must not compromise the intent of our tests
[01:34] <SteveA> or else we have a big problem improving things later on
[01:34] <ddaa> SteveA: like a dry-run pqm to run the test suite before sending for review?
[01:34] <danilos> SteveA: right, as already agreed; I am just bringing the context in
[01:34] <BjornT> if think having stand-alone tests are usually preferred. big stories get hard to follow.
[01:34] <SteveA> danilos: right, we agreed on a way to do it for this one case
[01:34] <kiko> agreed
[01:34] <kiko> a story with more than 5 tests is very hard
[01:34] <salgado> and very hard to maintain. (big stories)
[01:35] <kiko> however
[01:35] <SteveA> I want to make sure we have a policy that everyone understands for standalone and short stories and against long stories
[01:35] <kiko> I would very much like to be able to run make check
[01:35] <SteveA> and we should work on the test infrastructure, instead, to make test runs better
[01:35] <kiko> the fact that it takes hours on my box is no fun
[01:35] <carlos> kiko++
[01:35] <SteveA> kiko: one thing we can do is make "make check" different from "make pqm-check" (it already is, but not much)
[01:35] <kiko> so some optimization work there is definitely in order if you want to say don't grow stories
[01:36] <SteveA> regression tests will always grow in time
[01:36] <SteveA> but you don't need to run them yourself often
[01:36] <kiko> the reason we grew existing stories in the first place is because the test performance never improved
[01:36] <SteveA> I agree with spending time improving test run times
[01:36] <kiko> so I'm just pointing out that this is actually nature finding a way
[01:36] <SteveA> and also allowing you to specify and run just the important tests for you
[01:36] <SteveA> like, if you change rosetta, you don't need to run all cscvs tests
[01:36] <SteveA> let pqm do that
[01:37] <SteveA> yes
[01:37] <SteveA> moving on...
[01:37] <SteveA>  * Fix-it Fridays (FiF) (Steve/Kiko)
[01:37] <kiko> (that was not a digression!)
[01:37] <ddaa> kiko: that was just a pun :)
[01:37] <kiko> SteveA, you or me? :)
[01:37] <SteveA> on fridays, for people who have completed their area's 1.0 tasks
[01:37] <SteveA> and for people with 1.0 tasks still to do, by arrangement with kiko
[01:38] <SteveA> we'll have Fix-it Fridays
[01:38] <SteveA> all friday is just for doing stuff that you personally think needs fixing or improving in any part of launchpad
[01:38] <thumper> SteveA: is it supposed to be only one days work?
[01:38] <SteveA> matthewrevell will be helping keep track, and getting community members involved, if you say in advance that you're interested in input from community members as to what they'd like fixed
[01:39] <kiko> thumper, hopefully more than one less-than-one-days-work bug.
[01:39] <thumper> kiko: ok
[01:39] <kiko> the rationale
[01:39] <SteveA> thumper: the idea is that you choose things that you can complete in that one day, or maybe several things.  but, if you really want to do something big, I think that's possible if we plan it well.  maybe break it into smaller chunks.
[01:39] <kiko> is:
[01:39] <matthewrevell> I'll be doing a user-friendly report on what's been done each week, so I'll be nagging everyone to keep me updated.
[01:39] <kiko> we have a lot of people working in important long-term features
[01:40] <kiko> but that ends up meaning that low-hanging fruit that could be fixed in a couple of hours gets ignored
[01:40] <kiko> sometimes we also want people to take a break from a feature that is taking a week
[01:40] <kiko> since you /can/ get stuck in a rut over a problem that isn't moving
[01:40] <kiko> those are reasons for trying to vary the workload like this
[01:41] <SteveA> also also, for 4 days a week, we say that kiko and I are directing what work gets done to a large extent.  But for 1 day a week, we can go outside of that, because you also know what would be good to do.
[01:41] <kiko> we have tried before the 2-hour slots idea with carlos
[01:41] <carlos> SteveA, kiko: Does it deprecates the 1-2 hours slot ideas we had in Rosetta and that we are trying to resurrect?
[01:41] <SteveA> yes
[01:41] <carlos> kiko: you read my mind man!
[01:41] <SteveA> ok, questions on irc later
[01:41] <SteveA> moving on
[01:41] <matsubara> And if you feel lost and need some help finding places to work on, here's a good suggestion: https://launchpad.net/projects/launchpad-projects/+bugs?field.tag=oops :)
[01:41] <kiko> carlos, yeah. the problem with those is that 2 hours ends up not being a lot, and having to do them every day is a bit hard.
[01:41] <SteveA>  * Canonical names, testing on beta (Stuart)
[01:41] <kiko> so f-i-f might be a better answer
[01:41] <kiko> let's try f-i-if and see how it pans out in comparison.
[01:41] <ddaa> yay! saving on context switching!
[01:41] <kiko> EOT
[01:42] <SteveA>  - see stuart's email to the launchpad list
[01:42] <ddaa> matsubara: 404
[01:42] <carlos> kiko: ok
[01:42] <matsubara> https://launchpad.net/projects/launchpad-project/+bugs?field.tag=oops
[01:42] <SteveA>  * Keep, Bag, Change (skipping this week)
[01:42] <matsubara> sorry, ddaa
[01:42] <SteveA>  * Three sentences
[01:42] <stub> DONE: URL changes
[01:42] <stub> TODO: Track down and fix test suite layer ordering bug. Look into Rosetta db optimization data migration. Or whatever.
[01:42] <stub> BLOCKED: No
[01:42] <salgado> DONE: Finished the ImageUploadWidget, code review, landed searching projects and a few other trivialities, started cleaning up and fixing a bunch of bugs related to team membership notification.
[01:42] <salgado> TODO: Land the ImageUploadWidget and use it everywhere, more code review, finish fixing the membership notification bugs.
[01:42] <salgado> BLOCKED: No
[01:42] <flacoste> DONE: wrote doc, bug fixes, reviews
[01:42] <flacoste> TODO: become a parent
[01:42] <flacoste> BLOCKED: no
[01:42] <kiko> DONE: HR (resums and interview bookings), minor patches to bugzilla watch support, some code reviews, DVD bounty for ubuntu-bugs, some management stuff, a lot of developer conversation in particular with Rosetta
[01:42] <kiko> TODO: rollout report, coding, interviews, review for carlos, spec review for flacoste, staging review
[01:42] <kiko> BLOCKED: NO
[01:42] <matsubara> DONE: oops report analysis, triage, support, fixed 63009. same ol'
[01:42] <matsubara> TODO: bug triage, finish tests for 74437, test 47377 locally.
[01:42] <matsubara> BLOCKED: no
[01:42] <jamesh> DONE: code review, fix up sprint-dates, bzr-0.13 compatibility for Launchpad, bug importer work
[01:42] <jamesh> TODO: code review, bug importer, bzr webserve for supermirror
[01:42] <jamesh> BLOCKED: no
[01:42] <BjornT> DONE: landed malone-release-management. reviews. fixed a few bugs related to 1.0 ui.
[01:42] <spiv> DONE: bzr HTTP smart server for http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ (pending RT #26258)
[01:42] <BjornT> TODO: fix the rest of the bugs related to 1.0 ui.
[01:42] <spiv> TODO: reviews, bzr+ssh for bazaar.launchpad.net, make smart server smarter.
[01:42] <cprov> DONE: merge NoMoreAF & several high priority & quick bug fixes
[01:42] <BjornT> BLOCKED: no
[01:42] <thumper> DONE: branch filtering, working through review comments
[01:42] <cprov> TODO: review archive-rework
[01:42] <cprov> BLOCKED: no
[01:42] <thumper> TODO: branch notification emails
[01:42] <thumper> BLOCKED: nothing
[01:42] <carlos> DONE: vacations, TranslationReview, bug #68014, user support and email catch up
[01:42] <carlos> TODO: Next steps of TranslationReview, merge #44214, fix #75333, any other thing for 1.0
[01:42] <carlos> BLOCKED: kiko needs to review my patch for read only translation form.
[01:42] <spiv> BLOCKED: no
[01:43] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 68014 in rosetta "Rosetta reverts translation fixes to old faulty values" [Critical,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/68014
[01:43] <SteveA> DONE: management
[01:43] <SteveA> TODO: management, code review, ui work
[01:43] <SteveA> BLOCKED: mpt on vacation
[01:43] <ddaa> DONE: released cscvs, imports herding, help text, importd-datelastsynced
[01:43] <ddaa> TODO: imports herding, help text, review reply backlog, branch-email-notification speccing, "Re: benefits for launchpad" for launchpad-bazaar
[01:43] <ddaa> BLOCKED: no
[01:43] <danilos> DONE: ff-export completed, some tests, email, bugs, discussions
[01:43] <danilos> TODO: tests, review/land my pending branches (bug-2181, ff), ooo support, kde plural forms, feisty opening
[01:43] <danilos> BLOCKED: no
[01:43] <carlos> danilos: feisty opening is not yet approved by kiko
[01:43] <danilos> carlos: ok
[01:43] <matthewrevell> DONE: lots of learning, meeting SteveA, LP docs planning
[01:44] <matthewrevell> TO-DO: more LP docs planning, first F-I-F
[01:44] <matthewrevell> BLOCKED: None
[01:44] <SteveA> thanks to matthewrevell for the idea of the catchy name "fix it friday"
[01:44] <SteveA> ask matthewrevell if you need more catchy names -- he's good at them!
[01:44] <matthewrevell> :)
[01:44] <SteveA> kiko: carlos is blocked on you
[01:45] <salgado> is beta running against production's db already?
[01:45] <SteveA> salgado: yes
[01:45] <kiko> SteveA, I am aware of this, though it is also blocked on TR.
[01:45] <SteveA> ok
[01:45] <SteveA> that's all folks
[01:45] <SteveA> thanks for keeping the meeting on time
[01:45] <SteveA> MEETING ENDS
[01:45] <thumper> on time even
[01:45] <kiko> SteveA, and, if you looked my TODO, you'd have noticed I already had it planned
[01:46] <danilos> oh, circular blockings, nice ;)
[01:46] <carlos> kiko: TR is already approved by BjornT, I'm just dealing with conflicts from another branch and will land
[01:46] <aa_> so, how does one become a launchpad dev, is it open source?
[01:46] <cprov> matthewrevell: I think we should F-i-F once for Soyuz before the end of the year. Can you help me to select the most wanted quick fixes ?
[01:47] <matthewrevell> cprov: I'd be more than happy to help. This is perhaps somewhere heno could help to give us some feedback from the distro team, would you think?
[01:47] <kiko> aa_, it's not -- that's a FAQ -- but you can help out by discussing improvements, and you can request code access via an NDA if you have the time for it.
[01:48] <ddaa> SteveA: got a minute?
[01:48] <cprov> matthewrevell: yes, that would be perfect !
[01:48] <heno> matthewrevell: I'll poll the team for a wish list of simple issues
[01:49] <matthewrevell> heno: Cool, thanks.
[01:49] <cprov> heno: thanks
[01:50] <matthewrevell> cprov: I'm least familiar with Soyuz
[01:50] <SteveA> ddaa: I have exactly 2 minutes.  then I need to prepare for a call
[01:50] <matthewrevell> cprov: This will be a good opportunity for me to learn more.
[01:51] <aa_> how does one become "featured software" ?
[01:51] <jordi> ffs, I had to walk away.
[01:51] <thumper> night all, off to fall into bed
[01:51] <jordi> In any case, this was my last meeting as a Launchpad team member.
[01:51] <cprov> matthewrevell: sure, i think it's more than time to concentrate efforts to make soyuz more user-friendly.
[01:52] <jordi> Thanks everyone for the great experience... I plan to stay around #lp and help danilo and carlos as time permits
[01:52] <carlos> jordi: we will miss you!
[01:52] <jordi> carlos: you're way to close to me to miss me :)
[01:53] <jordi> your mom lives two blocks away ;)
[01:53] <carlos> jordi: well, 180 Km.... ;-)
[01:53] <danilos> jordi: I already do, but I got those nude GUADEC pictures of you to help my sorrow ;)
[01:53] <carlos> is closer than any other in the team, but it's still far ;-)
[01:53] <jordi> danilos: jordipr0n sounds great.
[01:53] <matthewrevell> jordi: Good luck in your new job
[01:53] <aa_> and final annoying question, can I upgrade my app to a project? since it honestly has sub-applications?
[01:53] <jordi> there's lots of images like that around the net :)
[01:54] <danilos> jordi: yeah, but don't blame me: it's you who's the pr0nstar!
[01:54] <jordi> aa_: you'll have to create a project and assign your current project to it
[01:54] <danilos> triathlete pr0nstar :)
[01:54] <aa_> jordi: right, only launchpad devs can add projects
[01:54] <jordi> dude
[01:54] <jordi> no kidding:
[01:54] <jordi> 04:16 #debian-devel: < erich> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Gx0GFUvZXg  <---  is this the fake jordi mallach guy again? :-)
[01:54] <jordi> see, people keep talking about me overnight
[01:55] <jordi> matthewrevell: thanks. In the meanwhile, I'm trying to finish my other job in time to have a pair of weeks of vacation
[01:56] <danilos> jordi: should I download this straight to my pr0n folder, or just to the funny videos? :)
[01:56] <jordi> matthewrevell: and Tunisia is looking good here :)
[01:56] <jordi> danilos: symlink it from pr0n to funny
[01:56] <danilos> jordi: makes sense, makes sense :)
[01:56] <danilos> jordi: ah, Tunisia while the winter is on, sounds fun
[01:57] <danilos> jordi: have fun there, and we'll catch up one of the following weeks :)
[01:59] <matsubara> aa_: please file a support request with all the details of your project here: https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+addticket
[02:00] <static> ddaa: could I trouble you to peek at the Tomboy code import at some point? I've got some personal plans to hack on Tomboy, but I really don't want to use cvs
[02:01] <ddaa> tomboy got a nasty problem... lemme check
[02:02] <ddaa> static: https://help.launchpad.net/VcsImportRequests#tomboy
[02:03] <ddaa> I sort of guess what's the problem here
[02:03] <ddaa> But I'm not too sure how to fix it.
[02:03] <carlos> jordi: dude, I didn't know you know dancing so well!
[02:03] <carlos> :-P
[02:04] <jordi> I'm da man
[02:04] <ddaa> the problem is that the last checked out version of this file was 1.1, so when cvs is asked to check it out again, it remembers this and say "oh, nothing to checkout, it's already there"
[02:04] <static> ddaa: I see. How does cvs remember it?
[02:05] <ddaa> static: cscvs uses a native pserver client, so does as much as possible in a single pserver session
[02:05] <ddaa> so I guess the state of the assumed remote checkout is recorded in cvs server for the duration of the session
[02:06] <static> ddaa: aha. is it possible for me to run a trace of the pserver session using a normal CVS client to see what happens differently?
[02:07] <ddaa> static: it's not clear to me whether cscvs should just simplify out the filler revision if it's a no-op, or if it should (somehow) work around the cvs server
[02:07] <ddaa> static: it would not help much, cscvs produce very different access patterns than a normal cvs client
[02:08] <ddaa> but you _can_ check out launchpad-cscvs: https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad-cscvs
[02:09] <ddaa> static: I wrote an email yesterday CC the bazaar mailing list with instruction to help another user debug cscvs
[02:09] <static> ddaa: ok! thanks for the info. I'll give launchpad-cscvs a try before abandoning hope.
[02:09] <ddaa> static: note, it's not intended for general use (yet)
[02:10] <ddaa> it's neither clean nor easy to use, so you should definitely check this email I wrote yesterday if you do not want to die of frustration
[02:10] <static> ddaa: understood, I won't expect perfection
[02:10] <static> as long as the steps don't include "open a hex editor" I probably won't die of frustration
[02:10] <ddaa> static: I'd love to have lifeless handy so he could provide some guidance here... on whether the no-op filler revisions should be ignored or not...
[02:11] <ddaa> static: it falls just a _little_ short of that :)
[02:12] <ddaa> static: if you can make a good patch (with tests), I'd be happy to get it merged and deployed
[02:13] <ddaa> I'll give you help that you need, just ask on the bazaar mailing list.
[02:14] <static> ddaa: excellent, thanks! don't expect rapid progress, but I will definitely dig a little deeper
[02:15] <aa_> matsubara: ok, will do, thanks. Will it be possible to have the project named the same as a current product?
[02:16] <Ubugtu> New bug: #75747 in launchpad "In the projects/ page we should point people to the Answer tracker if they want to register a new project" [Low,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/75747
[02:16] <willvdl> hey folks. is there a way to see, from a team page, what products/projects are associated with the team?
[02:18] <matsubara> aa_: not really. the project must have an unique name.
[02:19] <matsubara> aa_: but you can rename the product and free the name for your project.
[02:25] <salgado> willvdl, not yet, but there's a bug open for it already. :/
[02:25] <willvdl> bug or a spec?
[02:26] <aa_> matsubara: ok, thanks
[02:26] <kiko> willvdl, a bug/
[02:27] <salgado> willvdl, bug 36526, I think
[02:27] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 36526 in launchpad "People tab should list products as well as packages" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/36526
[02:27] <willvdl> I'm trying to promote intelligent use of LP in our teams which involves deciding on whether to spec something or report a bug
[02:27] <salgado> willvdl, we use bugs for feature requests too. only when it's a big feature we write a spec
[02:27] <willvdl> informational products are a bit tricky for folks to get heads around
[02:27] <matsubara> that's a dupe of bug 1135
[02:27] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 1135 in launchpad "No obvious way to get from a person to what projects/products they're involved in" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/1135
[02:28] <willvdl> ah. is that a temporary thing? seems a bit inconsistent?
[02:28] <kiko> temporary?
[02:28] <salgado> you mean, using having bugs which are actually feature requests?
[02:28] <salgado> s/using//
[02:28] <willvdl> sorry, meaning is that how it the procedure is promoted?
[02:29] <willvdl> yeah. just worried that a bug implies "error"
[02:29] <salgado> usually everything starts with a bug, since the lack of a feature can be considered a bug
[02:29] <willvdl> ok, I'm following you
[02:30] <matsubara> hmm ubugtu could say when a bug is a dupe and display the target as well. 3 features requests for you Seveas :)
[02:30] <salgado> if we think that a bug will demand considerable effort to be fixed, we usually discuss it and write a spec
[02:31] <willvdl> surely only if it actually implies added functionality?
[02:32] <Seveas> matsubara, that actually is rather easy
[02:33] <salgado> in almost all cases. although it'd be okay to have a spec describing how we're going to fix an actual error in a system, I don't think we have many of them
[02:33] <matsubara> Seveas: I'm filing the bugs
[02:34] <willvdl> salgado, I guess I'm worried about the semantics.
[02:34] <willvdl> I can see perfectly how it works though
[02:39] <willvdl> salgado, thanks. I'll write up some simplified docs for the edubuntu community and then see where I can give back to help.lp.net
[02:40] <salgado> willvdl, you're welcome. and docs are always greatly appreciated; thank you!
[02:41] <willvdl> well LP is going to make my life a lot easier so I want to maximise on it
[02:46] <aa_> I love launchpad, it's just so much better than anything else I have ever used
[02:46] <aa_> really I have this thought at least once a day
[02:46] <aa_> usually more
[02:47] <kiko> matthewrevell, maybe you want to get a testimonial from aa_ :-)
[02:49] <aa_> well, in some projects I am forced to use bugzilla
[02:50] <aa_> it's just like scraping nails against a blackboard
[02:52] <aa_> the only problem with launchpad is the future features. See if they had mailing lists from the start I would not need to change my mailing lists over at some point in the future
[02:52] <aa_> but now I am going to have to do that one day
[02:58] <kiko> mailing list integration is on the roadmap but it is non-trivial given the way launchpad manages its teams and people
[02:59] <kiko> we could plug in mailman in a haphazard way but you'd end up having to do the user management twice and it would be confusing and not very friendly
[02:59] <aa_> yeah
[02:59] <aa_> well, if things were easy then they would have hired me as the boss, not you
[03:20] <Ubugtu> New bug: #75756 in soyuz "Sync source should be able to receive an up to date list of archives" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/75756
[03:21] <flacoste> salgado: ping
[03:21] <salgado> flacoste, pong
[03:22] <flacoste> salgado, seems like the baby is arriving later today or tomorrow, so I won't be there to handle any fall outs related to the roll out of localized support requests
[03:22] <flacoste> do you think you can handle that?
[03:22] <flacoste> i don't expect many problems, but with real users you never know :-)
[03:22] <salgado> sure thing
[03:23] <salgado> flacoste, hope everything goes well with gf and the baby. congratulations!
[03:23] <flacoste> salgado: thanks! i also hope that everything is going to be fine
[03:40] <Ubugtu> New bug: #75759 in launchpad-support-tracker "Allow confirming a request Solved using email" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/75759
[03:54] <aa_> what is ubugtu
[04:01] <LarstiQ> a bot that notifies about new bugs filed on launchpad, as well as looking up ones pasted in irc
[04:01] <LarstiQ> like bug 1
[04:01] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 1 in Ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/1
[04:01] <aa_> is it a custom bot or a plugin, I mean
[04:01] <aa_> (plugin for a known bot)
[04:14] <matsubara> aa_: launchpad.net/products/ubuntu-bots, Seveas is the one who code/manage it.
[04:15] <aa_> matsubara: thanks again
[04:16] <matsubara> aa_: you're welcome
[05:26] <aa_> does automatic release scanning and importing work?
[05:38] <somerville32> Gah!
[05:38] <somerville32> I can't access this page: https://launchpad.net/people/xubuntu-team/+packagebugs
[05:38] <somerville32> constant timeout error
[05:39] <aa_> somerville32: I can access it from here, if that is any help to you
[05:39] <aa_> (sorry)
[05:39] <somerville32> It's ok.
[05:39] <somerville32> :D
[05:41] <matsubara> bug 1
[05:41] <kiko> I need to fix that page too :-(
[05:41] <kiko> it works for me though
[05:41] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 1 in Ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/1
[05:41] <matsubara> bug 1
[05:42] <matsubara> Seveas rocks!
[05:42] <matsubara> hehe
[05:42] <matsubara> he fixed bug 75752
[05:42] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 75752 in ubuntu-bots "Ubugtu should not repeat a bug description more than once in (say) 5 minutes." [Undecided,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/75752
[05:42] <matsubara> cool!
[05:50] <kiko> yes somerville32?
[05:50] <somerville32> It still isn't working at all. There is an e-mail that references to that page (so I need to look). Any idea when I'll stop dieing? :}
[05:52] <kiko> somerville32, if you give me an OOPS ID I might be able to help you
[05:52] <somerville32> OOPS-348D1165
[05:52] <Ubugtu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/348D1165
[05:54] <kiko> somerville32, does it make a difference if you are logged in or not?
[05:54] <kiko> matsubara, is there a bug on that timeout?
[05:55] <somerville32> Works fine logged out
[05:56] <kiko> matsubara, note that point as well -- the problem is in the privacy-related clause in the queries
[05:56] <kiko> see the oops for details
[05:56] <kiko> thanks for clarifying that in email ddaa
[05:57] <ddaa> kiko: NameError: name 'that' is not defined
[05:57] <kiko> just enjoy the thansk
[05:58] <ddaa> ddaa.enjoy(thanks)
[05:59] <kiko> I said thansk.
[05:59] <ddaa> My avatar has an helpful spell checker
[06:00] <ddaa> because I know that you cannot be bother to spell right :)
[06:00] <ddaa> s/bother/bothered/
[06:00] <matsubara> kiko: maybe re-open bug 3308, but it's probably another issue
[06:00] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 3308 in malone "Bugs on Maintained Software times out" [Medium,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/3308
[06:03] <BjornT> matsubara: i wouldn't re-open that bug. when that bug was filed, +packagebug was a completely different page.
[06:04] <matsubara> BjornT: yeah, I'll file a new one.
[06:18] <bubba> what time is that for EST.
[06:20] <Ubugtu> New bug: #75783 in malone "+packagebugs page times out due privacy related clause in the queries." [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/75783
[06:20] <matsubara> somerville32, kiko: ^
[06:20] <somerville32> Thanks :]
[06:24] <kiko> thanks matsubara
[06:24] <kiko> somerville32, does using it without being logged in solve your problem for now?
[06:24] <somerville32> kiko: Yup but it is a big pain in the butt! :)
[06:25] <kiko> sorry. I'll look into it, but not for tomorrow -- i'm sandbagged. if you can convince BjornT to look into it you may get luckier!
[06:26] <bubba> could not find bug 75783
[06:26] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 75783 in malone "+packagebugs page times out due privacy related clause in the queries." [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/75783
[06:26] <bubba> ok
[07:01] <bubba> When I was installing Fiesty Herd 1 it names the partitions /dev/sda is the a bug
[07:02] <silwol> isn't this the new ata kernel module?
[07:02] <bubba> Edgy names it /dev/hda
[07:02] <silwol> i think it's the one that was handling s-ata up to now, and it was extended to also handle ata as far as i know
[07:02] <silwol> edgy also has the previous kernel version
[07:03] <bubba> may drive is a maxtor pata
[07:04] <bubba> I will check to see if it has a bug report
[07:06] <bubba> I'm reading this package Gnome partition or Gparted
[07:06] <silwol> bubba: can you read german?
[07:06] <silwol> i found the news, but it is in german
[07:06] <bubba> no
[07:06] <silwol> one moment...
[07:07] <bubba> can i translate it to english with the browser
[07:07] <silwol> it is there: http://kernelnewbies.org/Linux_2_6_19 - under libata/IDE
[07:07] <silwol> ...already in english ;)
[07:08] <bubba> Thanks
[07:08] <silwol> seems to be a feature, not a bug :)
[07:13] <bubba> thanx silwol
[07:13] <silwol> np
[07:34] <kiko> hey danilos
[07:34] <danilos> hi kiko
[07:34] <kiko> how's it going man
[07:35] <danilos> kiko: it's kinda ok, writing tests now, it's mostly a boring part :)
[07:35] <kiko> danilos, hey tests are fun!
[07:36] <danilos> yeah, kiko, one's gotta love them :)
[07:38] <BjornT> kiko: i don't think there's much i can do about bug 75783 without access to the staging db, there's nothing obvious, and we have optimized the privacy query once before. i can ask stub to take a look at it tomorrow, though.
[07:38] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 75783 in malone "+packagebugs page times out due privacy related clause in the queries." [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/75783
[07:39] <kiko> BjornT, we're issuing too many queries in that page, I think.
[07:39] <kiko> danilos, do you need any help, or are you cruising along okay?
[07:39] <danilos> kiko: btw, I am thinking of switching my mind over a bit and doing tests for kde plural forms instead; or should I use FiF for that?
[07:40] <danilos> kiko: I think I am fine; btw, what about trip to Brazil? do I need to plan anything? (I found out that Brazil embassy issues 90-day visas)
[07:40] <Ubugtu> New bug: #75797 in rosetta "Move translationimportqueue.txt test from doctest to functional test" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/75797
[07:40] <kiko> danilos, well, depends -- how long are the remaining firefox tests going to take you?
[07:41] <kiko> part of the idea with FiF is doing tasks you can start and finish in a day
[07:41] <danilos> kiko: between 4-7 hours
[07:42] <kiko> it's your call then -- I would love to see the FF stuff up for an initial review, but I don't want to get you stuck on it and not get it done because we insisted on doing it
[07:42] <BjornT> kiko: yeah, my first thought was to try to combine some queries. i guess i could try doing that and ask someone to test it later to see whether it improve things.
[07:42] <danilos> kiko: as for FiF, I don't want you to smack me (so I won't say how long will it take), so I'll only say what needs doing for kde plural forms: parse '_n:blah\nblahs' into two strings, export that appropriately when format==KDEPO, and write tests
[07:43] <kiko> BjornT, yeah, though combining BugTaskSet.search() queries would require some API changes
[07:44] <BjornT> i know. but it might be the only option.
[07:45] <carlos> danilos: I don't think that could be done in just one day
[07:45] <carlos> danilos: specially without having an initial review of FF branch that would change a bit what you have right now
[07:46] <danilos> carlos: that's why I talked only about doing tests instead
[07:46] <carlos> danilos: why don't take a break with other smaller branches that you already have open?
[07:46] <danilos> carlos: makes sense, sure
[07:46] <carlos> danilos: oh, you mean write its tests?
[07:46] <danilos> carlos: yeah
[07:46] <carlos> it's a good way to split the task ;-)
[07:47] <danilos> carlos: exactly :)
[07:49] <kiko> yeah, I think that's all the more reasonable.
[07:50] <bubba> got to go gotmail  thanks
[07:54] <aa_> well, I am going to write a plugin for another bot that clones ubugtu's activity
[07:55] <aa_> I just can't bring myself to have two bots
[07:55] <aa_> but nice work
[07:55] <kiko> why don't you reuse the ubugtu plugin?
[07:55] <aa_> ubugtu is a plugin?
[07:55] <kiko> Seveas
[07:55] <kiko> ping :)
[07:56] <somerville32> !usage
[07:56] <aa_> kiko: see it is literally 0-100 lines of code for the other bot that I contribute to
[07:56] <somerville32> No ubotu? :(
[07:56] <aa_> and the other bot has thousands of unit tests :)
[07:57] <kiko> yeah, I'd just try and share the code somehow
[07:57] <aa_> ok, ok, forget the unit tests. But since I spent so much effor contributing to it, not using it is like selling my mother or using emacs or something
[07:57] <aa_> kiko: well, I am going to try to use the xmlrpc, I assume it has stuff for getting bug data
[07:58] <aa_> but I wonder how it gets notification of new bugs
[07:58] <kiko> aa_, email. it is an email subscriber.
[07:58] <aa_> oh, perfect
[07:59] <aa_> see one of the plugins I wrote for this other bot does exactly that
[07:59] <aa_> think of my poor mother! she is getting old and won't fetch a great price
[07:59] <aa_> I'll check out the ubugtu code, anyway
[08:07] <carlos> see you later
[08:21] <kiko> lol
[08:56] <jonh_wendell> as<EMAIL_ADDRESS>is an alias, can't i set it as my Preferred address?
[08:57] <elmo> no
[09:07] <mdke> elmo: I've come across people who have done so without issues, are you sure?
[09:07] <mdke> (an example is https://launchpad.net/people/nixternal)
[09:09] <salgado> stub, my mirror-prober-trivialities branch has a small migration script, and Bjron suggested having it as an actual DB patch, so that we don't have to keep notes about when it needs to be run. what do you think is better? (the diff: https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/pending-reviews/salgado/launchpad/mirror-prober-trivialities/full-diff)
[09:10] <jonh_wendell> mdke, elmo i've just done that. Emails are going to my previous preferred
[09:19] <elmo> gar
[09:19] <elmo> mdke: yes, I'm sure, I wrote the code
[09:19] <elmo> jonh_wendell: your mail will stop working, I guarantee it - you've been warned
[09:20] <mdke> elmo: fair enough. But nixternal's mail has been working like that for some months, maybe there is another explanation
[09:20] <elmo> mdke: yes, he's kubuntu and ubuntu
[09:20] <elmo> mdke: that triggers a bug in the merging from launchpad code
[09:20] <elmo> he started out being just ubuntu and with a preferred email of gmail
[09:20] <elmo> he later became kubuntu and then after that changed his preferred email to ubuntu
[09:21] <elmo> due to a bug, the merge code has only noticed his preferred email change on the kubuntu id, not the ubuntu one
[09:21] <mdke> gotcha
[09:21] <elmo> if/when I fix that, his email will disappear too
[09:21] <mdke> is there a bug open about people's email disappearing when they change their preferred mail to an alias like that?
[09:21] <elmo> there's a spec to stop you doing it in the first place
[09:22] <elmo> (and the email doesn't disappear, it bounces, it's only the address which disappears)
[09:22] <kiko> yeah, and I think there's a bug about the bouncing
[09:22] <elmo> there's not much else the merge stuff can do - it can't allow loops
[09:22] <elmo> it needs to be stopped at the UI level
[09:23] <mdke> sounds like it's all under control
[09:24] <jonh_wendell> elmo, fixed, thanks for warning
[09:24] <jonh_wendell> elmo, as i see a lot of people like that, i guess i could
[09:28] <vil> hi, i would like to question about the ubuntu-membership
[09:29] <vil> a week ago i was accepted as a new motu. this also provided me in LP with the ubuntu-membership
[09:29] <vil> do i need to attend the CC to become a real member or was this enough?
[09:30] <crimsun_> you're a real member.
[09:34] <vil> ok then, i was just curious
[09:34] <vil> is there a way how can i activate the<EMAIL_ADDRESS>address?
[09:35] <somerville32> Vil isn't a member
[09:36] <somerville32> His name is on the pending list on the Community Council Agenda
[09:36] <crimsun_> that's completely ludicrous, since he's already MOTU
[09:36] <vil> yes, I put that name there before i attended TB last week
[09:36] <elmo> somerville32: that list isn't authoratitve
[09:36] <crimsun_> vil: I suppose you'll need to show up to CC and get the wave-through, then.
[09:36] <elmo> launchpad is
[09:36] <elmo> and launchpad says he's a member
[09:36] <elmo> his email alias already exists
[09:36] <crimsun_> heh.
[09:37] <elmo> it's just yet another gmail account
[09:37] <elmo> and gmail doesn't allow you to send mail to yourself
[09:37] <elmo> so people keep assuming their email alias isn't working
[09:38] <carlos> kiko: TranslationReview and bug #68014 are landed
[09:38] <vil> elmo: lol, you seem to see all what i am doing.
[09:38] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 68014 in rosetta "Rosetta reverts translation fixes to old faulty values" [Critical,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/68014
[09:39] <vil> elmo: so at last, attend CC or not, that is the question.
[09:39] <elmo> vil: there's no need - as I said, you're already a member
[09:40] <vil> great, thanks, i just wanted to have it clear.
[10:24] <somerville32> elmo: Can I ask something of you or should I send it to rt?
[10:37] <mdke> that's one question already


[13:48] <lux_2> hi
[13:48] <lux_2> is it possible to install latest 0.26 mythtv on current mythbuntu?
[14:34] <qwebirc45080> hey folks
[14:35] <qwebirc45080> I try to install mythbuntu on ubuntu 13.04 but the mythbuntu control center doesn't launch at all
[14:35] <qwebirc45080> do you have any suggestions?
[15:04] <__raven> i have the same issue qwebirc45080 described
[15:07] <__raven> DB UPDATE FAILED: backend on xubuntu 12.04 lts server, frontend on  ubuntu 13.04. both installed by ubuntu repo. got message on frontend "db too old and must be updated" - tryed to update both versions via ppa to 0.26 but still "db too old"-message on frontend - need help please
[15:52] <tgm4883> lux_2, yes, via the Mythbuntu control center repos
[15:53] <tgm4883> __raven, yes, MCC is broken on 13.04. The suggestion is to stay on 12.04. If you need to be on 13.04, then you can enable the repos from the command line
[15:54] <__raven> tgm4883, ok tnx. but my problem is the db version on the server and i do not know any more how to update this
[15:55] <tgm4883> on the backend, do 'dpkg -l | grep mythtv'
[15:55] <Jay2k1> w
[15:55] <tgm4883> pastebin the output
[16:04] <__raven> tgm4883, i purged and reinstalled backend and ran setup again - suddenly its been converted
[16:11] <__raven> tgm4883, but now i have the new problem not to be able to "connect to master backend"
[16:29] <tgm4883> __raven, in MCC, look on the mysql tab and see if that service is enabled


[01:03] <rockstar> thumper, lifeless, wgrant, reviewer's meeting?
[01:04] <StevenK> Not even me ... :-(
[01:05] <rockstar> StevenK, I just grabbed a handful of names.
[01:05] <thumper> here
[01:05] <thumper> just
[01:06] <thumper> rockstar: I think that bac can't make it today
[01:06] <thumper> I saw the wiki page updated with an apology
[01:06] <rockstar> thumper, yeah, I'm chairing both meetings today.
[01:06] <thumper> ok
[01:06] <rockstar> Except Mootbot is stupid, so we don't get Mootbot for the meeting.
[01:07] <rockstar> Okay, so I took lifeless's proposal to make everyone a UI reviewer to the AMEU meeting this morning.
[01:07] <thumper> rockstar: why not?
[01:08] <rockstar> It was met with weeping and wailing, and nashing of teeth.
[01:08] <rockstar> #startmeeting
[01:08] <MootBot> rockstar, There is already a meeting in progress.
[01:08] <rockstar> ^^ That's why.
[01:08] <thumper> heh
[01:08] <thumper> ok
[01:09] <rockstar> Many reviewers don't WANT to be UI reviewers as well, and many feel like we need to get a better understanding of what "good UI" is before new people are reviewers.
[01:09] <thumper> I agree with that
[01:10] <rockstar> Anyone else want to chime in?  StevenK maybe?
[01:10] <StevenK> I also agree with that
[01:10] <rockstar> Okay, so the motion is basically tabled for now then.
[01:11] <thumper> s/tabled/floored/
[01:11] <thumper> :)
[01:11] <rockstar> :)
[01:11] <rockstar> That's it from the AMEU meeting.  Anyone have anything here?
[01:12] <StevenK> Nope
[01:12] <thumper> nope
[01:13] <rockstar> Alright. Great meeting.
[01:13]  * rockstar wanders off to take a shower and not smell terrible anymore.


[07:31] <slyon> genkgo: is the ens18 interface (or rather your default GW <IP_ADDRESS>) connected to that other networks? Could you use some kind of traceroute to check at which hop it fails? mtr -I ens18 -c 5 --tcp -P 80 -r -n <IP_ADDRESS>
[07:39] <genkgo> slyon: I fixed it already by disabling the prefix routes
[07:39] <genkgo> although that only works by disabling the prefix routes manually (bash script), not via a .network file which I understand is the preferred option
[07:39] <genkgo> why that is not working, I don't know
[07:39] <slyon> OK, good to know that you found a solution!
[07:44] <genkgo> slyon: are you also aware of FAN overlay networks?
[07:45] <genkgo> because containers on this machine using the overlay network are still not able to connect to resources on the subnets of those external ips
[08:04] <slyon> not really... no