[06:50] <[reed]> so, I guess Hardy is shipping b5?
[06:51] <asac> [reed]: its not in my hand ;)
[06:52] <asac> [reed]: or is there a chance that rc1 is out by 21st apr?
[06:53] <[reed]> 11 days... dunno
[06:53] <[reed]> people are saying "late April"
[06:53] <[reed]> dunno what that means
[06:53] <asac> we release on 24th
[06:53] <asac> 22nd would be good i guess
[06:54] <asac> [reed]: for me its much more important that we release something that is guaranteed to be string frozen
[06:54] <asac> e.g. no _new_ keys
[06:54] <[reed]> well, we're string frozen right now
[06:55] <asac> i doubt that b5 is really hard string frozen
[06:55] <[reed]> b5 isn't
[06:55] <[reed]> but we are string frozen now
[06:55] <asac> so what strings were added?
[06:55] <asac> after b5?
[06:55] <[reed]> http://wiki.mozilla.org/Releases/Firefox_3.0rc1
[06:55] <[reed]> umm, you'd just have to look at one of the l10n repos
[06:56] <asac> this all wouldn't be much a problem if strin bundles could fall back to en-US if they are only partially translated
[06:56] <asac> but they don't do that and so the UI ends up being busted
[06:56] <[reed]> http://bonsai-l10n.mozilla.org/cvsquery.cgi?treeid=default&module=all&branch=HEAD&branchtype=match&dir=l10n%2Fen-GB&file=&filetype=match&who=&whotype=match&sortby=Date&hours=2&date=explicit&mindate=2008-03-21+00%3A00%3A00&maxdate=2008-04-10+00%3A00%3A00&cvsroot=%2Fl10n
[06:56] <[reed]> those?
[06:57] <asac> looking
[06:57] <asac> ok lets hope for RC1 then
[06:58] <asac> hmm ... but thats en-GB
[06:58] <asac> sure that the strings really landed after b5 for en-US :?
[06:58] <asac> hmm
[06:59] <asac> ill talk to blizzard about RC1
[06:59] <asac> [reed]: how many things usually land after tree closes for baking?
[07:00] <[reed]> we have a ton to go
[07:00] <[reed]> we're not really "baking" per se
[07:00] <[reed]> we basically just went into drivers-have-to-approve-everything mode
[07:00] <[reed]> even blockers have to be approved now
[07:00] <asac> welll ... code hand-off to build means release
[07:00] <asac> :)
[07:00] <asac> for me
[07:00] <asac> ;)
[07:00] <[reed]> yeah, well
[07:01] <asac> just two steps away
[07:01] <asac> guess those are big steps
[07:02] <[reed]> I see 131 blockers left
[07:02] <asac> P2?
[07:03] <[reed]> all blockers
[07:03] <[reed]> we're not doing it by priorities anymore
[07:04] <asac> ok . sounds like not all will get fixed then ;)
[07:06] <[reed]> well, they all have to be fixed
[07:06] <[reed]> by RC1
[07:07] <asac> OTOH, 131 is still managable
[07:07] <asac> :)
[07:07] <asac> its not like you only have 4 developers ;)
[07:07] <asac> (i hope
[07:07] <asac> )
[07:07] <[reed]> hah
[07:07] <[reed]> yeah, and most blockers already have patches
[07:07] <asac> wow ... thats a trick ;)
[07:09] <asac> [reed]: do you know of any hard regressions in current trunk over b5?
[07:10] <[reed]> not anything that really sticks out
[07:10] <[reed]> nope
[07:10] <asac> [reed]: nevermind. i am sure that string freeze doesn't guarantee me that no new strings are added :(
[07:10] <[reed]> why not?
[07:10] <asac> which is what causes me restless nights right now
[07:10] <asac> id consider to ship rc1pre if that means frozen strings for sure
[07:11] <[reed]> like, we're _really_ string frozen... it'll have to be an act of God before we had another string
[07:11] <asac> well ... i read that you can still request approval from mconnor to breach new strings
[07:11] <[reed]> add*
[07:11] <[reed]> where?
[07:11] <[reed]> where do you see that?
[07:11] <asac> on some mailing list
[07:11] <asac> let me search
[07:13] <asac> That's the last string freeze for Firefox 3, if you have patches with
[07:13] <asac> string changes, make sure to have the late-l10n keyword set, and ring
[07:13] <asac> all bells and whistles to get the bugs triaged.
[07:13] <asac> no idea
[07:13] <asac> what late-l10n is empowered to
[07:13] <asac> i will ping mconnor again
[07:13] <asac> he didn't answer two days ago
[07:13] <asac> http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.dev.planning/msg/211615c0ace0c1ce
[07:19] <asac> [reed]: if no strings were removed i could punch the latest strings into translations
[07:19] <asac> (after b5)
[07:20] <[reed]> well, some were removed, as when we change a string, we "rev the entity", which means renaming the entity, which removes a string and adds a new one, basically
[07:20] <[reed]> but localizers are supposed to be done with all their work by today (Thursday)
[07:21] <[reed]> so, again, it'll be an act of God before we change another string
[07:21] <asac> [reed]: yeah ... point is that if we ship b5 we will have issues upgrading our translations.
[07:21] <asac>  so ... option is to ship rc1pre
[07:21] <[reed]> rc1pre isn't that bad
[07:22] <asac> yeah i know ;)
[07:22] <[reed]> it's a risk, yes
[07:22] <asac> question is if the risk is higher than shipping b5
[07:22] <asac> :)
[07:22] <[reed]> but a pretty well calculated and controlled risk
[07:22] <asac> maybe ill ask for permissions to name it 3.0ubu1
[07:22] <asac> :)
[07:23] <asac> so far our management chewed that we ship b5. but i think they are still digesting so its open if they get sick
[07:25] <[reed]> well, talk to blizzard and mconnor
[07:25] <asac> will do. have no choice i guess
[07:25] <asac> lets hope they have a minute for me ;)
[07:51] <DktrKranz2> asac: we're close to have ubuntu-it-menu, you said to move bzr repo to ~ubuntu-dev, is it enough to reparent it and adjust entry in debian/control accordingly, or there's something else to do?
[07:53] <asac> DktrKranz2: the entry in control is already fixed afaik
[07:53] <asac> you just need to branch volans .ubuntu branch and push that to ~ubuntu-dev instead
[07:54] <asac> DktrKranz2: please hurry. i thought you already uploaded that yesterday
[07:54] <asac> ill prod archive admins today to do a last round of NEW processing for ffox extensions ;)
[07:55] <DktrKranz2> asac: sure. I'll do right now.
[07:55] <asac> DktrKranz2: do a last commit on top that reads "* RELEASE VERSION to ubuntu/hardy"
[07:55] <asac> just adapt changelog date to qualify a commit
[07:55] <asac> thanks
[07:55] <DktrKranz2> thank *you*
[07:55] <asac> (maybe he still has UNRELEASED in changelog ... switch that to hardy"
[07:55] <asac> in that commit
[07:55] <asac> )
[07:55] <DktrKranz2> in a couple of minutes, it will be in NEW
[07:55] <asac> gogogo :-P
[07:56] <asac> great
[07:56] <asac> let me know
[07:56] <DktrKranz2> sure
[08:02] <asac> [reed]: read ... can you test something for me?
[08:03] <asac> [reed]: personally i ave no issues to use flashplugin without libflashsupport together with ESD(pulseaudio) in hardy
[08:03] <asac> can you confirm that everything works for you as well?
[08:03] <asac> fta: ^^ can you please test the behaviour you experience with that combination?
[08:03] <[reed]> can't test tonight
[08:03] <asac> ok
[08:03] <[reed]> maybe tomorrow
[08:04]  * asac joins #ubuntu-testing
[08:08] <asac> lets see what that channel is worth
[08:25] <DktrKranz2> asac: done!
[08:25] <asac> DktrKranz2: thx
[08:26] <DktrKranz2> now it's in the hands of a-a guys
[08:37] <asac> carlos: morning ;)
[08:37] <carlos> asac: morning
[08:37] <asac> carlos: looking at the translation page there it reads "Used in firefox in Ubuntu Hardy package "firefox-3.0" by Alexander Sack (asac: 142348) [ubuntumembers] [ubuntu-dev] [ubuntu-bugcontrol] [ubuntu-core-dev]  on 2008-04-07"
[08:37] <carlos> asac: all patches are now on production
[08:37] <asac> does that mean that the template is already imported?
[08:38] <carlos> asac: URL?
[08:38] <asac> carlos: https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+source/xulrunner-1.9/+pots/xulrunner/de/+translate?show=untranslated&start=60
[08:39] <asac> every entity is now used by ffox 3 on 7th apr
[08:43] <carlos> asac: that just says that you translated that message
[08:43] <carlos> or that someone uploaded a .po file using your name as the translator
[08:44] <carlos> asac: beta5 is not yet uploaded, though. I'm trying to fix a problem with the import queue (related with oo.org)
[08:44] <asac> carlos: ok
[08:44] <carlos> and then, beta5 should be imported
[08:44] <asac> carlos: could we punch in the template at least?
[08:45] <asac> it don't need translations right now, but getting all strings would help me prepare initial langpacks for b5
[08:45] <carlos> asac: the problem is the same for template and translations, so I need to fix that problem first (waiting for approval from management people to get that applied)
[08:45] <asac> ok
[08:46] <asac> thougth you might influence the import queue to do the template in between processing ooo translations ... but fine
[08:50] <carlos> asac: the problem is that I don't have such direct control
[08:50] <carlos> asac: I need to request raw DB command execution, which is the 'fix' I just requested to speed imports anyway...
[08:50] <asac> carlos: ah ok. ill stop bothering you then ;)
[08:51] <asac> sorry
[08:51] <carlos> don't worry, you don't know the internals of our procedures so is not a problem to clarify it to you
[09:04] <carlos> asac: btw, almost all times I visit planet.ubuntu.com my firefox dies
[09:04] <carlos> asac: is that a known bug?
[09:04] <carlos> asac: I'm with Hardy
[09:05] <asac> carlos: flashplugin-nonfree?
[09:05] <asac> installed?
[09:05] <carlos> yeah, I have it
[09:05] <asac> carlos: ok ... good then you are th enext tester ;)
[09:06]  * carlos hides ...
[09:06] <asac> please move away your /usr/lib/libflashsupport.so
[09:06] <carlos> :-D
[09:06] <asac> and see if its gone
[09:06] <asac> restart everything to be sure
[09:06] <carlos> everything == my session?
[09:06] <asac> carlos: do you have sound server enabled in sound prefs
[09:06] <carlos> or just be sure that firefox is not really running?
[09:06] <carlos> asac: yes, I do
[09:06] <asac> carlos: to be safe yes. its important to see that no firefox nor flash is running anymore
[09:06] <asac> so its not required to restart session
[09:07] <asac> only instruction i have to rule out any leftovers though
[09:07] <carlos> ok
[09:07] <carlos> 'ps' and 'kill' should help here ;-)
[09:07] <asac> yeah ... but you never know ;)
[09:08] <asac> carlos: maybe its also important to see that noone has a file handle open on libflashsupport anymore (but not sure)
[09:08] <carlos> ok
[09:08] <carlos> asac: btw, why does it only happen with planet.ubuntu.com?
[09:09] <asac> carlos: not sure if its the same issue ... does it help at all?
[09:09] <carlos> it died again
[09:10] <carlos> and lsof doesn't show to me any libflash file open
[09:10] <asac> then its something different
[09:10] <carlos> asac: the interesting bit is  that when I restart firefox
[09:10] <asac> carlos: start firefox -safe-mode
[09:10] <carlos> Ubuntu's planet loads well
[09:11] <asac> he?
[09:11] <carlos> the problem seems to be my usual combination of pages
[09:11] <carlos> planet.gnome.org, barrapunto.com, planet.ubuntu.com
[09:11] <carlos> then, crahs!
[09:11] <carlos> asac: should I select any option in that dialog I get from -safe-mode ?
[09:12] <asac> carlos: no
[09:12] <asac> let me test
[09:13] <asac> carlos: i don't see that crash :(
[09:14] <carlos> trying to reproduce it now with the -safe-mode
[09:14] <asac> ok ... lets wait for that then
[09:17] <carlos> asac: hmm, nothing breaks with -safe-mode
[09:17] <asac> carlos: ok ... its either an extension or plugin then
[09:17] <asac> carlos: is flash enabled in -safe-mode?
[09:17] <asac> can you see flash content?
[09:18] <carlos> asac: given that I removed the library... I don't think so
[09:18] <carlos> but let me check
[09:18] <asac> carlos: ok, if it really crashed without flash its probably an extension
[09:19] <asac> what are you using?
[09:20] <carlos> asac: it died again... let me do the other check you asked me...
[09:20] <carlos> asac: firebug and addblocker
[09:20] <carlos> asac: firebug was installed manually not from a package
[09:21] <carlos> asac: safe-mode does include flash plugin
[09:21] <asac> include == keep enabled?
[09:21] <asac> carlos: ok we have firebug in a package ... can you try that?
[09:21] <carlos> asac: yes
[09:21] <carlos> even if I removed that library you asked me to remove
[09:22] <asac> carlos: libflashsupport?
[09:22] <carlos> asac: does it work with firefox 3 ?
[09:22] <asac> thats not flash thats just the pulse audio fix for it
[09:22] <asac> carlos: firebug in the archive should work
[09:22] <carlos> asac: I had to manually install it because the package in Ubuntu was not compatible
[09:22] <carlos> asac: ah, ok
[09:22] <carlos> ok, let me check
[09:22] <carlos> asac: btw, should I restore that library?
[09:23] <asac> carlos: no ... that library is bogus and causes crashes anyway ;)
[09:23] <asac> so better keep it removed
[09:24] <asac> carlos: ok, so if hte crash really reappears without -safe-mode it is an extension you can figure by disabling your extension and restarting and trying to reproduce
[09:24] <carlos> asac: I'm installing now the firebug extension from the archive
[09:24] <asac> great
[09:27] <carlos> same problem with the one from the archive
[09:27]  * carlos starts disabling extensions...
[09:32] <carlos> asac: seems to work if I disable firebug extension
[09:33] <asac> intersting
[09:33] <asac> carlos: maybe it interferes with adblock?
[09:33] <asac> are you using adblock-plus from the archive?
[09:33] <asac> (or from addons.mozilla.org)
[09:33] <asac> adblock-plus over adblock (plain)
[09:34] <carlos> from the archive
[09:55] <asac> carlos: so does it still crash with firebug enabled, but with adblock disabled?
[09:55] <carlos> sorry, got distracted with something else
[09:55] <carlos> let me check...
[09:56] <asac> no problem ;)
[10:09] <carlos> asac: yeah, seems to be a problem having adblockplus and firebug enabled at the same time
[10:12] <asac> carlos: hmm. ok
[11:50] <carlos> asac: just as a followup, I got a crash again with adblockplus disabled and firebug enabled
[11:51] <carlos> asac: so maybe is just firebug
[11:51] <asac> carlos: ok. thanks for the info. please file one
[11:51] <carlos> not the combination of both
[11:51] <asac> carlos: do you have a .crash that you could submit?
[11:51] <carlos> where is it stored?
[11:51] <asac> in /var/crash
[11:51] <asac> submitting by double clicking would submit it
[11:52] <carlos> oh, the bug reporting tool in Ubuntu found it
[11:52] <asac> there might be some private data in the coredump obviously, but the bug is private until we reviewed the backtrace and removed the coredump
[11:53] <carlos> that was what I was going to ask you
[11:54] <carlos> will cookies and cached password appear there?
[12:12] <asac> carlos: they might. apport submitted crashes are private. we can instantly take a look and remove any sensitive parts before we open it up
[12:12] <carlos> ok
[12:49] <carlos> asac: dude, I'm still uploading the core...
[13:40] <fta> hi
[13:40] <fta> bug 49613
[13:40] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 49613 in flashplugin-nonfree "flash plugin always rendered on top of html" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/49613
[13:41] <fta> asac, any idea why this bug is back ?
[13:41] <fta> bug 177856
[13:41] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 177856 in nspluginwrapper "Gutsy 64: nspluginwrapper errors with flashplugin-nonfree 9.0.115" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/177856
[13:45] <fta> mozilla bug 427385
[13:45] <ubotu> Mozilla bug 427385 in GFX: Thebes "april 6th ff3 trunk crash when opening this huge PNG [XError: 'BadAlloc (insufficient resources for operation)']" [Critical,Assigned] http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=427385
[13:51] <asac> carlos: please dn't cancel the upload ;) ... otherwise we won't get any backtrace ;)
[13:55] <asac> fta: i think its your bug and except crashing firefox it just crashes flash leaving a grey area
[13:56] <fta> ?
[13:56] <fta>  bug 49613 ?
[13:56] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 49613 in flashplugin-nonfree "flash plugin always rendered on top of html" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/49613
[13:56] <fta> i confirm this one is back
[13:57] <asac> no you didn't paste that one
[13:57] <asac> bug 49613 that was never gone. i think its waiting for the fix on flash side
[13:57] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 49613 in flashplugin-nonfree "flash plugin always rendered on top of html" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/49613
[13:58] <fta> [Thu 14:41] <fta> bug 177856
[13:58] <asac> ah i misread
[13:58] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 177856 in nspluginwrapper "Gutsy 64: nspluginwrapper errors with flashplugin-nonfree 9.0.115" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/177856
[13:58] <asac> i read:
[13:58] <asac> 14:41 < fta> asac, any idea why this bug is back ?
[13:58] <asac> 14:41 < fta> bug 177856
[13:58] <asac> ;)
[13:58] <fta> k
[13:59] <fta> strangely, trunk in wine / vista is almost perfect :)
[14:00] <fta> i expected it to break everywhere (because of wine) but it's clean
[14:02] <asac> he?
[14:02] <asac> you mean running firefox 3 .exe?
[14:02] <fta> yes
[14:03] <fta> i need to run a windows app needing shockwave, it doesn't work out of the box so i installed ff3 inside wine and let it install shockwave from inside wine
[14:04] <fta> (as installing directly from the setup.exe didn't work at all)
[14:05] <fta> it installed fine, yet my app still complain about missing shockwave 10 (i've installed the current one, ie 11)
[14:12] <carlos> asac: I didn't cancel it, but it failed (after more than 30 minutes...)
[14:13] <asac> carlos: damn ;)
[14:13] <asac> carlos: you could install xulrunner-1.9-dbgsym and firefox-3.0-dbgsym and run firefox in gdb to get a backtrace as well
[14:14] <asac> carlos: the apt lines for dbgsym packages is in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProgramCrash
[14:14] <asac> s/gutsy/hardy/ i guess
[14:14] <asac> fta: crazy
[14:14] <carlos> ok
[14:15] <asac> maybe we should drop ffox from distribution and run wine ;)
[14:16] <fta> asac, i don't need ff3 in wine, i just need a shockwave recognized by a w$ app
[14:16] <asac> yeah i got that ;)
[14:16] <asac> still it works which is really great imo
[14:18] <fta> maybe it's a 64b issue (my laptop) as i don't remember having to do that when I setup the same app on my (32b) desktop months ago
[14:20] <asac> hmm. yeah does wine run 64b?
[14:22] <fta> donno
[14:22] <fta> oops, ff3 crash
[14:23] <fta> youtube, login, login with google account, boom
[14:23] <asac> yeah if youtube is involved everything can happen
[14:23] <asac> if flashsupport is used
[14:24] <fta> nope, seems to be another nss crash
[14:25] <asac> fta: can you pleas move libflashsupport.so away and give me an update what works and what not with most recente flash + PA ?
[14:25] <fta> I've had no crash flash related since yesterday's flash update
[14:26] <asac> fta: well it works here too
 fta: looking at flashsupport code right now. i think the ssl backtraces you got are really related to flashsupport
[14:28] <asac> fta: i tried openssl it didn't help for the crashes
[14:28] <asac> and those are nss symbols
[14:28] <asac> only thing i could imagine is that flash keeps using file descriptors that are already used somewhere else
[14:29] <fta> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6699/
[14:29] <asac> fta: the ticket that covers our crash in flashssuport is:
[14:30] <asac> http://www.pulseaudio.org/ticket/225
[14:30] <fta> i thought this PORT_ZFree_Util() crash was fixed 2 days ago.. hm
[14:31] <fta> "Opened 3 months ago"
[14:48] <fta> damn dbgsym, my upgrade was incomplete
[14:54] <asac> fta: hmm likely not because of ffox+xul dbgsym?
[14:55] <fta> i had nss dbgsym from my previous update but not for the last one
[15:03] <fta> asac, it seems i need backup from a cannonical guy to have dbgsym in ppa
[15:03] <fta> see #lp
[15:04] <asac> fta: thats has been frequently requested by other canonical guys alrady. such things take ages
[15:04] <fta> just read the last few lines..
[15:05] <asac> i am not in that channel ... just joined now
[15:05] <fta> asac, http://paste.ubuntu.com/6700/
[15:13] <fta> er, 200+ rss news every 6h those days, I can't cope with that
[15:54] <asac> fta: ill ask around, but i think that distro team already expressed their interest in this
[15:55] <fta> ok, thanks
[16:21] <asac> Volans: hi. i think your extension has been newed
[16:22] <asac> archive admins pointed out that you ship as GPLv2 or later, but some files are already GPLv3
[16:22] <Volans> Hi asac, yes, DktrKranz has uploaded it, is in the queuq
[16:22] <Volans> *queue
[16:22] <asac> Volans: it should already be source newed
[16:22] <Volans> what files are GPL3 ?
[16:22] <asac> it will get in, but we should upload an update that names the GPLv3 files in debian/copyright or upgrade everything to GPLv3
[16:22] <asac> Volans: some .js files
[16:24] <Volans> I'm checking
[16:24] <asac> Volans:
[16:25] <asac> 12:36 < seb128> content/ubuntuit files are GPL 3 or newer too
[16:25] <asac> 12:36 < seb128> chrome/content/ubuntuit files are GPL 3 or newer too
[16:25] <Volans> mmmh I have found! I have copied into any code files the preamble of the GPL license copied from the GPL site that now show the 3 version
[16:25] <Volans> and I have forgot to change the number from 3 to 2, but the link below point to the GPLv2 license...
[16:25] <asac> Volans:
[16:25] <asac> 12:35 < seb128> asac: defaults/preferences/ubuntuit.js is GPL 3 or newer, as are  build.xml chrome.manifest install.rdf and the debian/copyright says  it's GPL 2 or newer
[16:26] <Volans> yeah, I see, ig mistake, my fault, sorry
[16:26] <Volans> How I can solve this? put all in GPL 2 correctly is not possible now?
[16:27] <asac> Volans: well ... its your decision. either upgrade everything to GPLv3 or later or use GPLv2 everywhere
[16:27] <asac> Volans: id suggest to use GPLv3 :)
[16:27] <fta> could someone update adblock-plus, <IP_ADDRESS> is out upstream
[16:28] <asac> tell that rainCT
[16:28] <asac> upgrade .upstream ... merge to .ubuntu and bump the log
[16:29] <Volans> asac: the gnome icon theme that I use is GPL version 2 only
[16:29] <Volans> as I see in  /usr/share/doc/gnome-icon-theme/copyright
[16:32] <asac> Volans: ok. fix the licensing in .upstream to use GPLv2 or later everywhere
[16:33] <asac> and then merge that over to .ubuntu and bump upstream version with new changelog entry
[16:33] <asac> thanks
[16:33] <asac> carlos: maybe the trnaslation tar.gz didn't arrive because it was stuck in queue NEW?
[16:34] <asac> carlos: its definitly in the uploaded firefox binary changes
[16:34] <asac> carlos: so maybe its there now?
[16:34] <asac> (queue is now empty)
[16:34] <asac> RainCT: i think we can upgrade adblock if we can declare this a mere bug fix release :)
[16:35] <asac> at best today as the archive is not yet locked
[16:35] <carlos> asac: did you upload an update?
[16:35] <asac> carlos: no ... the last firefox upload
[16:35] <DktrKranz2> asac: any licensing issues with ubuntu-it-menu? a-a accepted it, so probably it's ok for them ATM
[16:35] <asac> i referred to
[16:35] <asac> carlos: i just wanted to point out that it might have been stuck i nQUEUE for a day or two ... so maybe it arrived later than xulrunner
[16:36] <asac> DktrKranz2: they complained about the GPLv3 GPLv2 mix and accepted it based on the promise that we fix it
[16:36] <carlos> asac: let me check...
[16:36] <asac> DktrKranz2: and it now turned out that GPLv3 is not ok because of GPLv2 only of icon theme :(
[16:37] <DktrKranz2> asac: ah... do they want to be fixed right now, or we can dalay to new upstream?
[16:37] <asac> DktrKranz2: we should fix the .upstream branch, bump the upstream version and merge that to ubuntu branch to bake a new upload
[16:37] <asac> so its a minor new upsream bump
[16:37] <asac> and we should do that now (in cooperation with Volans)
[16:38] <DktrKranz2> and just to fix licensing issues, so I guess it won't hurt motu-release
[16:38] <Volans> yes, I can update the .upstream and .ubuntu branches in a few minutes
[16:38] <asac> DktrKranz2: they delagated the approval to me
[16:38] <asac> for extensions
[16:38] <asac> Volans: yeah. just remember to use bzr merge ../*upstream in the .ubuntu branch ;)
[16:39] <asac> but i guess you know how to merge :)
[16:39] <asac> thanks
[16:39] <DktrKranz2> asac: ah, right. I forgot.
[16:39] <carlos> asac: no, it didn't appear
[16:40] <asac> carlos: pitti said that its a problem on your side because its in .changes
[16:40] <asac> let me search for the changes uploaded
[16:40] <asac> carlos: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/13136097/firefox-3.0_3.0~b5%2Bnobinonly-0ubuntu1_i386.changes
[16:40] <asac> ad96449821055225ed3702820e885aa7 34922 raw-translations - firefox-3.0_3.0~b5+nobinonly-0ubuntu1_i386_translations.tar.gz
[16:40] <carlos> hmm
[16:41] <carlos> asac: well, I don't see it in people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/translations
[16:41] <carlos> and that's from buildd
[16:41] <asac> carlos: how does it get there?
[16:41] <carlos> before we really get it in Launchpad
[16:41] <carlos> asac: some 'magic' from buildd
[16:41] <asac> ok lets ask lamont then i guess ;)
[16:41] <carlos> I don't know that process
[16:42] <carlos> asac: I know that we had a bug in Launchpad that was ignoring .xpi files
[16:42] <carlos> that's already fixed on production
[16:42] <asac> carlos: ok. lets see if he has an idea
[16:42] <asac> i prodded him in -devel now
[16:42] <carlos> so next upload should show it if we really are getting it from buildd
[16:42] <carlos> ok
[16:46] <asac> carlos: oh the ffox template was imported?
[16:46] <carlos> ?
[16:46] <asac> i have "red" section on translation page again (which wasn't there before)
[16:46] <asac> hmm .. .maybe not.
[16:46] <asac> just confused
[16:47] <Volans> asac: what you suggest for the license due to the fact that gnome-icons are GPL 2 only. Is better that I release my code under GPL 2 only or GPL 2 and newer? and the global package can ge gpl 2 or newer or must be gpl 2 only?
[16:48] <asac> Volans: definitly "or later"
[16:48] <asac> only is always a lock in and removed flexibility without reason
[16:48] <Volans> ok, for my cose I use the standard form: "either version 2 of the License, or (at your option) any later version."
[16:48] <carlos> asac: this is what you should care of: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+source/firefox-3.0/+imports
[16:48] <asac> you can use GPL 2 or later ... the icons will make it implicitly GPL 2 only ... but if you switch icons they will be GPL or later
[16:48] <Volans> s/cose/code/
[16:48] <RainCT> argh, CVS is a mess :/
[16:48] <carlos> asac: until it's not empty or with the entries in 'Imported' it's not yet handled
[16:49] <asac> Volans: maybe name the icons that are GPLv2 only explicitly (like exception)
[16:49] <Volans> quite all the icons are GPL2 only.... :(
[16:49] <asac> carlos: ok :(
[16:49] <asac> carlos: i desperately need those ;(
[16:49]  * asac whining mode
[16:49] <asac> thanks
[16:50] <carlos> asac: we already fixed the problem with oo.org
[16:50] <asac> Volans: yes. thats a shame, and probably due to folks not knowing what they are doing
[16:50] <carlos> asac: so it's just now a matter of wait for the queue to handle those
[16:50] <asac> Volans: but you have to accept their decision :)
[16:55] <asac> ok off for a while travelling the world :)
[16:55] <asac> be back later
[16:55] <asac> Volans: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-it-menu/1.0.6-0ubuntu1
[17:02] <RainCT> any idea why the version file in adblock-plus's CVS still says <IP_ADDRESS> (http://www.mozdev.org/source/browse/adblockplus/src/version?rev=1.27;content-type=text%2Fplain) ?
[17:02] <RainCT> (s/any idea/is that normal)
[17:03] <fta> donno, on AMO, it's <IP_ADDRESS>
[17:03] <RainCT> fta: yes, on adblockplus.org too, but not on the CVS
[17:03] <RainCT> or at least on the versions file
[17:03] <RainCT> perhaps they just forgot to change it there..
[17:09] <RainCT> asac: btw, adblock-plus is also compatible with Thunderbird. Do we want the package to work with it?
[17:09] <fta> oh, the latest flash update was a security update. hmm.  http://mozillalinks.org/wp/2008/04/security-update-for-adobe-flash-plugin/
[18:02] <Volans> asac: I have uploaded to upstream the files with the correct license preamble, due to the GPLv2 only for Gnome icons I have changed the LICENSE file, can you see it here: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~volans/firefox-extensions/ubuntu-it-menu.upstream
[18:02] <Volans> maybe can you check it?
[18:49] <RainCT> asac, fta: bug 215201
[18:49] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 215201 in adblock-plus "New adblock-plus version: <IP_ADDRESS>" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/215201
[18:54] <fta> RainCT, no debdiff ?
[18:54] <fta> (debian/* only)
[18:56] <asac> RainCT: i added the info about FFe bug to bug
[18:56] <asac> go ahead
[18:56] <asac> asap
[18:56] <asac> (before the archive locks down)
[19:00] <asac> RainCT: i have no feedback on how much adblock plus breaks thunderbird or works so Id rather say no for hardy.
[19:00] <asac> but in the end this is the maintainers decision ;)
[19:00] <asac> or whoever cares most
[19:01] <fta> asac, for bug 214620, i propose:
[19:01] <fta> -DisplayIf: pgrep firefox -U $(id -u) > /dev/null
[19:01] <fta> +DisplayIf: ! ps -C firefox -U $(id -u)
[19:01] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 214620 in firefox-3.0 "hardy livecd asks for firefox-3.0 restart" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/214620
[19:03] <asac> fta: didn't you change that for last release?
[19:04] <fta> yep but obviously, people are still complaining
[19:05] <fta> the doc is unclear
[19:05] <asac> fta: you remember i what the original test was?
[19:05] <asac> i got that command from mvo. he is the guy who implemented this, so he knows the pattern
[19:06] <asac> so if you just s/firefox-3/firefox/ then i don't know
[19:11] <RainCT> fta:   bzr diff -rXX..18 debian/   is your friend :)
[19:13] <RainCT> asac: uploading, thanks
[19:13] <fta> asac, pulseaudio is using ps -C
[19:13] <fta> only the return code seems to be important
[19:14] <asac> fta: yes. but why '!' ?
[19:14] <fta> try it :)
[19:15] <asac> fta: well ... i really think its a problem in the livecd creation.
[19:15] <asac> why is the notifier file placed in /var/... at all
[19:16] <asac> we do that in postinst and only if the firefox process is running
[19:16] <asac> that shouldn't be the case for the livecd
[19:16] <asac> ill ask the guy on the bug
[19:17] <asac> if the file is really placed there then displaying the notification is the right thing to do if firefox is running
[19:18] <Volans> asac: maybe have you seen the new license file I have linked above?
[19:19] <asac> no ;) ... i just arrived. let me sort before diving into things again :)
[19:19]  * asac doig that now
[19:19] <asac> ;)
[19:20] <fta> asac, this is dirty anyway, xul should handle that itself
[19:28]  * asac reconstructs (33/100)
[19:29] <fta> ?
[19:29] <asac> hehe ... just a joke
[19:29] <asac> fta: its known that this is dirty and I planned to have a session for this at UDS
[19:29] <asac> its not simple to do properly obviously
[19:30] <RainCT> asac: archives are already frozen.. "Waiting for approval: adblock-plus <IP_ADDRESS>-0ubuntu1 (source)"
[19:30] <asac> i have a few half-grown ideas in my head. but we need to coordinate everything with the apt maintiner
[19:30] <asac> RainCT: hmm.
[19:31] <asac> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2008-April/025259.html
[19:31] <asac> those are the univers guidelines
[19:32] <asac> apparently i can approve things.
[19:33] <asac> RainCT: did you test that it works?
[19:33] <RainCT> asac: yes, I'm using it right now
[19:35] <asac> ok re-acked to be sure
[19:36] <asac> RainCT: is the bug in changelog?
[19:36] <RainCT> asac: yes :)
[19:37] <asac> ok ... if nothing happens in lets say two days let me know ;)
[19:37] <asac> but i guess archive-admins are doing this full time now ... so it shouldn't take that long
[19:37] <asac> especially since this upload is probably on top of the queue :)
[19:41] <RainCT> what's "p"? :P
[19:42] <asac> Volans: ok, can you make a new release out of .upstream by bumping extension version to 1.0.7 or <IP_ADDRESS>? then merge it over to ubuntu, open a bug about licensing issues so i can grant exception for that and remember to note that in .ubuntu changelog entry?
[19:43] <asac> Volans: bumping version in .upstream branch first.
[19:43] <asac> Volans: maybe consider to use that bzr branch as the official upstream branch ;)
[19:43] <asac> you could even great a project for your extension in launchpad ;)
[19:43] <asac> RainCT: p == probability
[19:43]  * asac phone
[19:44] <jimmy_> asac: I just sent you the gconf patch
[19:44] <RainCT> ahh, hadn't noticed the question mark before it.. why is there a sad face then? :P
[19:46] <asac> jimmy_: thanks. looking
[19:46] <asac> takes a bit :/
[19:46] <Volans> asac: no problem to use the upstream as the official code repository and / or open a project on LP for that
[19:47] <asac> RainCT: well that means that firefox rc1 in hardy final? p < 5% :)
[19:47] <asac> Volans: welcome. if you need support to set things up let me know
[19:47] <asac> Volans: you can either use the firefox-extensions project as now ... or create your own and push the .upstream branch there
[19:49] <jimmy_> asac: i think the diff included the flip as well, so you might want to take that out, /modules/libpref/src/init/all.js
[19:49] <RainCT> asac: "p < 5%  :)
[19:49] <RainCT> p > 95% :(
[19:49] <asac> jimmy_: thanks if its just that hunk i can sort that
[19:49] <asac> jimmy_: actually midbrowser with xul works here on my amd64 ... i got a wierd X error with it on i386
[19:49] <asac> (the one from hardy archive i mean)
[19:49]  * RainCT decides to stop wondering about nonsense and goes to study for his exam tomorrow ^^
[19:49] <asac> RainCT: yeah ;)
[19:51] <asac> jimmy_: only thing i notice right away is that the grabanddrag hand in the toolbar is pretty much coarse grained because of the toolbar resize i guess
[19:54] <jimmy_> asac: why you testing it in amd64? should be intel chips only :)
[19:55] <asac> jimmy_: i have amd here
[19:56] <asac> jimmy_: it works on amd ... it breaks on intel ;)
[19:56] <asac> jimmy_: my main development system in amd ... feel free to sponsor me a quad core super intel box ... ill dispose this one gracefully :)
[19:57] <jimmy_> asac: LOL, carl is the right guy to ask :)
[19:57] <asac> damn he is not online ;)
[19:58] <jimmy_> asac: we are working on some problematic font issues right now
[19:58] <asac> jimmy_: yeah i read carls post about status
[19:58] <asac> jimmy_: why do you still run as root?
[19:58] <asac> thats a bad idea in the beginning
[19:58] <asac> does UME still have no user by default?
[19:59] <jimmy_> asac: we don't run as root in our image, but we test it in the chroot environment before in xepher
[19:59] <asac> ah. so is it reproducible in xephyr?
[19:59] <asac> (though i run it as user there as well)
[19:59] <jimmy_> asac: we didn't expect it to produce different rendering behaviors
[19:59] <jimmy_> asac: yeah, it is reproducable in xepher
[20:00] <asac> jimmy_: running as root might confuse everything. especially if you have a xul + ffox split
[20:00] <asac> its not supposed to have write access and might create component and chrom registry data in pkglibdir
[20:00] <asac> which might cause all kind of wierd issues later on
[20:00] <jimmy_> asac: also the some stupid Chinese sites don't work, even on the regular Firefox on Hardy
[20:01] <asac> further, i think there are even parts of gtk that get disabled if you run as root. at least i remember to see some wierd uid==0 checks with return in some gtk/gnome lib
[20:01] <asac> jimmy_: have a page?
[20:01] <jimmy_> asac: www.sohu.com
[20:01] <jimmy_> and mall.sina.com.cn
[20:02] <asac> jimmy_: what kind of rendering issues do you experience. the latter looks pretty decent
[20:02] <jimmy_> it's some minor font issue
[20:02] <asac> (for the untrained eye)
[20:03] <jimmy_> in sohu.com, where the top of the page, after the login password edit fields, there are 2 links 注册 帮助
[20:04] <jimmy_> they should be on the same row as the login fields, but in FF 3.0, they got wrapped to the next row
[20:05] <asac> jimmy_: zooming out fixes that for me
[20:05] <jimmy_> in mall.sina.com, the fonts in blue on the left menu also have the same problem
[20:05] <asac> jimmy_: i think they use absolute width somewhere on the site
[20:06] <asac> so it depends on the font used
[20:06] <asac> our default font appears to be too big to fit in that area
[20:06] <asac> so firefox has to overflow
[20:06] <jimmy_> asac: i know, we think that the N810 uses different chinese fonts than we do
[20:07] <asac> jimmy_: i think the chines fonts we are using could definitly be improved. please talk to ArneGoetje who is responsible for asian fonts in ubuntu
[20:07] <asac> jimmy_: maybe he knows better which fonts should be used ... and then we can figure why they are not the default
[20:07] <jimmy_> asac: is he in here?
[20:07] <asac> jimmy_: his nick is ArneGoetje in #ubuntu-devel
[20:07] <asac> he is  in taiwan so probably asleep
[20:07] <jimmy_> asac: cool, thanks
[20:07] <asac> but i can ask him to get in here tomorrow
[20:08] <asac> jimmy_: i think you can better catch each other in yours evening and his morning?
[20:09] <asac> jimmy_: ill tell him to ping you here if he wakes up
[20:10] <asac> ok done
[20:10] <jimmy_> asac: allright
[20:11] <asac> jimmy_: he is still awake
[20:12] <ArneGoetje> hi
[20:12] <asac> ArneGoetje: jimmy_
[20:12] <asac> jimmy_: ArneGoetje  :)
[20:13] <asac> shake hands ;)
[20:13] <ArneGoetje> what's the problem?
[20:13] <asac> ArneGoetje: let me paste
[20:14] <asac> ArneGoetje: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6710/
[20:14] <asac> ArneGoetje: thats about midbrowser but the same rendering issues exist in firefox we have
[20:14] <asac> looks like the sizing of the font is not what the site expects
[20:14] <asac> most likely just a crappy site, but maybe we have a better font?
[20:15] <asac> actually to my untrained eyes the fonts look pretty coarse
[20:16] <jimmy_> asac: actually zooming out doesn't fix it for me
[20:17] <jimmy_> i am still seeing the login button and the two words after right underneath the login fields
[20:17] <jimmy_> they should line up
[20:17] <asac> jimmy_: it fixes it for me for sure.
[20:17] <asac> (welll if you can say fix at all)
[20:18] <asac> jimmy_: first zoom out -> button moves to top row
[20:18] <asac> second zooomout -> both links are up as well
[20:18] <jimmy_> asac: i tried 2 zoom-outs, still at the bottom
[20:19] <asac> wow i really think that site is too crappy to consider fix worthy
[20:19] <jimmy_> i am testing on a fresh Hardy beta image using FF beta 4 it comes with
[20:19] <asac> i mean they position the flash banners in absolute divs
[20:19] <asac> so if i resize the window things get wierd
[20:19] <jimmy_> asac: i know, carl and i don't even consider those as bugs
[20:20] <asac> hi willguaraldi ;)
[20:20] <willguaraldi> hi!
[20:20] <ArneGoetje> that's really a page design issue.
[20:20] <asac> jimmy_: do you have any rendering issues you consider real bugs?
[20:20] <asac> ArneGoetje: the font doesn't look AA for me?
[20:20] <jimmy_> but we are being pressued to fix them because the N810 which is also FF-based, can passed those sites
[20:20] <jimmy_> asac: not really, they are all the same font issues
[20:21] <jimmy_> asac: similar but a little different
[20:21] <ArneGoetje> asac: correct. it should be wwnquanyi-zenhei with embedded bitmaps turned on. AA on such a small size is unreadable and hurst the eyes.
[20:21] <asac> ok ... ArneGoetje do we have other chinese fonts that have a smaller sizing so jimmy_ can workaround this?
[20:21] <asac> embedded bitmaps? what the hell is going on :(
[20:22] <asac> anyway, do we have fonts that are somehow differently sized`
[20:22] <asac> ?
[20:22] <ArneGoetje> the page requests a fontsize of 12px and that's what it gets.
[20:22] <asac> i think the problem is not height, but width here
[20:22] <jimmy_> ArneGoetje, can we install some other font package for now to work around this?
[20:22] <ArneGoetje> jimmy_: no.
[20:23] <asac> in german there are fonts that are wider at 12px and fonts that are tinier
[20:23] <asac> maybe the same exists for chinese?
[20:23] <asac> like wwnquanyi-zenhei-squeezed ;)
[20:23] <ArneGoetje> CJK fonts are sqared. 12px is 12x12 pixels. all bitmap fonts with this size display the same.
[20:24] <asac> ok so chinese is monospaced by-definition?
[20:24] <ArneGoetje> yes
[20:24] <jimmy_> ArneGoetie, if Nokia's N810 can read those right, they must be using some proprietory fonts?
[20:24] <ArneGoetje> actually they are dualspaced.
[20:25] <asac> ArneGoetje: i read ChinaRep and 17173 in latin
[20:25] <ArneGoetje> jimmy_: probably
[20:25] <asac> maybe that is ment to be smaller?
[20:25] <asac> jimmy_: do they use firefox 2?
[20:25] <asac> e.g. gecko 1.8?
[20:25] <jimmy_> they use FF 3
[20:25] <jimmy_> alpha1 based
[20:26] <asac> jimmy_: what dpi do you have on your screens?
[20:26] <jimmy_> how do i check that?
[20:26] <Volans> asac: do we still need keeping my .ubuntu branch when there is an identical one in the ~ubuntu-dev?
[20:26] <asac> jimmy_: xpdyinfo gives you your screen width and height
[20:26] <asac> jimmy_: calculation is done accordingly
[20:27] <asac> those are in mm afaik
[20:27] <asac> so you need to convert to inch first
[20:27] <asac> Volans: no, what you do is that you mark it as "merged" in branch details
[20:27] <asac> that way it will disappear
[20:27] <asac> Volans: for next update you would push to ubuntu-it-menu.ubuntu.LPbugid or ubuntu-it-menu.ubuntu.TOPICNAME
[20:28] <asac> like ubuntu-it-menu.ubuntu.RELEASE.0.7.x
[20:28] <asac> and then you can request merge opn launchpad
[20:28] <jimmy_> command not found for xpdyinfo
[20:31] <asac> jimmy_: typo alert ;)
[20:31] <asac> $ xdpyinfo | grep resolution resolution:    93x92 dots per inch
[20:31] <asac> those are two lines ... no idea why paste messed it up
[20:32] <ArneGoetje> hmm... ok, I think I know the rendering issue.
[20:32] <jimmy_> resolution:    111x111 dots per inch
[20:32] <asac> jimmy_: try to force 96dpi
[20:32] <asac> jimmy_: do you have gnome?
[20:32] <jimmy_> yes
[20:33] <asac> appearence -> font -> details (thats where you set font dpi)
[20:33] <asac> but apparently those are not honoured for that particular chinese font
[20:33] <asac> ArneGoetje: ^^ ?
[20:33] <jimmy_> asac: but it is set to 96
[20:33] <asac> why do latin fonts resize, but those chinese dont?
[20:34] <asac> jimmy_: ok. then also tweak ffox and set layout.css.dpi to 96+
[20:34] <asac> 96
[20:34] <ArneGoetje> the rendering uses the serif font by default, which uses AR PL Uming. This font has monospaced latin characters, whereas the sans-serif font wqy-zenhei has proportional latin charcaters. This should make the difference. Enforcing the page rendering with sans-serif might fix it.
[20:34] <asac> jimmy_: otherwise maybe try to use 111 in font appearence
[20:34] <asac> ArneGoetje: thanks.
[20:34] <asac> ArneGoetje: where can we find that font?
[20:35] <asac> do we need a package?
[20:35] <ArneGoetje> ttf-wqy-zenhei. It's pulled by language-support-zh
[20:35] <asac> jimmy_: ^^
[20:35] <asac> ArneGoetje: but the non-latin chars are still monospaced?
[20:36] <asac> (just curious about this other world)
[20:36] <ArneGoetje> CJKglyphs are always monospaced
[20:36] <jimmy_> so i just apt-get that font package?
[20:36] <asac> ok ... you said that. thanks for confirming ;)
[20:36] <asac> jimmy_: install that language-support-zh thing
[20:37] <jimmy_> ok, pulling
[20:37] <jimmy_> some 155mb :)
[20:38] <asac> jimmy_: appears like you lack proper chinese support :)
[20:38] <ArneGoetje> hm no... that one still doesn't fix it... maybe they used some condensed font when they created the layout?
[20:38] <ArneGoetje> I forced firefox to use sans-serif for Simplified Chinese pages.
[20:39] <ArneGoetje> I try again by enforcing WQY-Zenhei explicitely...
[20:39] <jimmy_> right, we tried tweaking the default font types for CN-zh in about:config
[20:39] <jimmy_> they have no effect on it
[20:39] <ArneGoetje> nope, even worse...
[20:40] <ArneGoetje> so, the page expects some condensed glyphs, at least for the latin part...
[20:41] <fta> [reed], mozilla bug 368091 killed me
[20:41] <ubotu> Mozilla bug 368091 in XUL Widgets "Toolkit's about:license needs to allow for different "official binaries" line" [Normal,Resolved: fixed] http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=368091
[20:42] <fta> [reed], http://paste.ubuntu.com/6711/
[20:43] <asac> fta: does the bustage fix help?
[20:43] <[reed]> I think they're working on it
[20:43] <[reed]> yeah
[20:43] <asac> there is a patch ;)
[20:43] <[reed]> check the bustage fix
[20:43] <asac> landed
[20:44] <asac> .... so I checked in this fix to
[20:44] <asac> hopefully fix them.
[20:44] <fta> I don't have content/overrides at all
[20:45] <fta> http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla/source/toolkit/content/
[20:45] <asac> yeah
[20:45] <jimmy_> Arnegoetje, the language-support-zh doesn't fix it, and makes it worse, i changed the default font type for zh to serif instead of sans-serif to revert it back to normal
[20:46] <asac> jimmy_: but if it changed something there is hope imo :)
[20:46] <jimmy_> asac: yeah, that's what carl and I have been playing around, with fonts all day :(
[20:47] <jimmy_> asac: i don't really think it affects the usability at all, LOL, to us, the page seem fine
[20:47] <asac> jimmy_: yeah ... just ignore minorities :-P
[20:48] <asac> anyway. personally i would refuse to hunt anything that happens on crappy sites with fixed sizing ;)
[20:48] <jimmy_> asac: but we still need to fix them to pass those IVP tests
[20:48] <ArneGoetje> jimmy_: maybe you can google for opendesktop-fonts-1.4.2.tar.gz and try those. they have been modified to resemble M$ MingLiU, whis is used in Taiwan. Maybe the Latin glyphs there fit better... (but I doubt it).
[20:49] <asac> jimmy_: write an extension that forcefully reduces font size on that site :)
[20:49] <ArneGoetje> asac: +1
[20:49] <asac> ArneGoetje: hwat is it "traditional chinese" ?
[20:50] <asac> (taiwan or hong kong)? or simlified?
[20:50] <jimmy_> asac: simplied chinese
[20:50] <jimmy_> taiwan and hong kong uses traditional chinese
[20:50] <ArneGoetje> asac: Traditional: TW + HK + MO. Simplified: CN + SG
[20:50] <ArneGoetje> asac: the page we are talking about uses simplified chinese
[20:51] <asac> jimmy_: i managed to move the button up by changing the gnome theme ;)
[20:51] <asac> maybe you need to fix the textbox sizing in gtkrc
[20:51] <asac> yeah ... with "glider" theme the button comes up
[20:52] <ArneGoetje> asac: hey, that's a good idea... maybe compare it to a windows machine, how the textboxes render there...
[20:52] <asac> with high contrast even ... strange
[20:52] <asac> anyone knows how to tune the inner padding of text fields in gtk?
[20:54] <jimmy_> i installed the languange-support-zh, the button also came up, but the two words are still at the bottom
[20:55] <ArneGoetje> I think it might be a mixed font and layout issue... can you please compare the page on a windows box and see what is different there?
[20:55] <jimmy_> i think you are right tho, the login boxes seem to be longer in FF than in IE, at least to my eyes
[20:55] <jimmy_> maybe some theme issues as well
[20:56] <ArneGoetje> Either the font is much more condensed (which is unlikely), or the textbox sizes and other elements on that page are narrower...
[20:57] <jimmy_> its the width of the textboxes
[20:57] <jimmy_> i think
[20:57] <ArneGoetje> ok...
[20:58] <jimmy_> in IE, the end of the last textbox ends 2 words in front of TV
[21:00] <ArneGoetje> jimmy_: at 天 or at 邮 ?
[21:00] <jimmy_> 天
[21:00] <ArneGoetje> ah... that explains it...
[21:02] <ArneGoetje> I think the only font related issue might be the 'space' width... 输入法 has been forced into a new line...
[21:02] <asac> jimmy_: i think you can tweak this in gtkrc ... i am pretty sure
[21:03] <asac> ArneGoetje: can we try other space width?
[21:03] <ArneGoetje> asac: that's font specific.
[21:03] <asac> ArneGoetje: in this case its monospaced?
[21:04] <asac> hmmm rather half the size i guess
[21:04] <asac> ArneGoetje: forus also the submit button gets in the next row
[21:04] <ArneGoetje> asac: if you use sans-serif, then it's proportional... but the 'space' glyph may be wider than in some windows fonts.
[21:04] <asac> (because you said that only 输入法 is in another line for you)
[21:05] <ArneGoetje> asac: I was comparig only that line.
[21:05] <asac> ok
[21:06] <ArneGoetje> because that line apart from the logo on the left, is pure text. So, it's easier to spot font problems. So, as 输入法 gets kicked off the line, I suspect the 'space' glyph in our fonts is wider than in the windows fonts the page was designed for.
[21:08] <asac> ArneGoetje: how easy can the font be edited to have a smaller space?
[21:08] <asac> i imagine that changing spaces is one of the only tasks that appears to be not hard in designing fonts ;)
[21:09] <ArneGoetje> asac: just open the font in fontforge, adjust the glyph in U+0032 and generate a new font. For the bitmaps inside that font, they migth need to be rebuikt for that glyph.
[21:10] <ArneGoetje> eh... U+0020 of course
[21:10] <asac> jimmy_: try that as a measure ;)
[21:11] <ArneGoetje> as I see the page requests the Arial font... so, I would compare the glyphs width of the Arial font with the one in WQY ZenHei
[21:11] <ArneGoetje> but the difference should be only minimal.
[21:12] <jimmy_> i am a little lost, what is glyph in fonts?
[21:13] <ArneGoetje> optionally you can try to create a new alias in fontconfig, let's say "sans-serif-condensed" and force DejaVu Sans Condensed as first font, followed by WenQuanYi ZenHei.
[21:14] <ArneGoetje> jimmy_: the glyph is what get rendered on the screen... the graphical representation of a given codepoint. The font maps codepoints to glyphs.
[21:16] <jimmy_> ArneGoetji: so using fontconfig to create an alias will be easier?
[21:16] <ArneGoetje> jimmy_: probably... I'm trying now.
[21:20] <asac> jtv: still there?
[21:21] <jtv> asac: no, my day is really over!
[21:21] <asac> jtv: ok sleep well
[21:21] <asac> ;)
[21:21] <asac> cu @noon
[21:21] <jtv> :-)
[21:24] <jimmy_> i'll be back, grab some lunch
[21:25] <asac> ArneGoetje: i think you should go to bed too ;) ... thanks for you help so far!
[21:30] <fta> [reed], $ cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@cvs-mirror.mozilla.org:/cvsroot -q -z 3 co -P -A -l mozilla/toolkit/content/overrides
[21:30] <fta> cvs server: cannot find module `mozilla/toolkit/content/overrides' - ignored
[21:30] <fta> cvs [checkout aborted]: cannot expand modules
[21:30] <fta> how is that patch supposed to work at all ?
[21:30] <asac> fta: i think that directlry might be created during build time
[21:31] <fta> hm, no
[21:31] <fta> Checking in browser/base/content/overrides/app-license.html;
[21:31] <fta> app-license.html
[21:31] <fta> initial revision: 1.1
[21:31] <fta> done
[21:31] <fta> that's from the bug
[21:31] <fta> oh lol
[21:32] <fta> browser/base/ vs toolkit
[21:33] <fta> cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@cvs-mirror.mozilla.org:/cvsroot -q -z 3 co -P -A -l mozilla/browser/base/content/overrides/
[21:33] <fta> U mozilla/browser/base/content/overrides/app-license.html
[21:33] <asac> good
[21:34] <asac> fta: i think the bustage fix should fix it
[21:35] <fta> I don't have that file in my tarball, it could be mozclient...
[21:35] <asac> fta: most likely time screw again?
[21:35] <asac> or did you try to run mozclient on latest head?
[21:36] <fta> latest head
[21:36] <ArneGoetje> asac: yeah.. nothing I can do here... DejaVu Sans Condensed also doesn't help much here...
[21:36] <fta> but I use dates anyway
[21:37] <asac> fta: that could be it i guess
[21:37] <fta> cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@cvs-mirror.mozilla.org:/cvsroot -q -z 3 co -P -A -D '2008/04/10 12:06 PST' -l mozilla/browser/base/content/overrides/
[21:37] <fta> U mozilla/browser/base/content/overrides/app-license.html
[21:37] <fta> seems to work
[21:37]  * ArneGoetje -> bed
[21:38] <fta> and in mozclient, i ask for mozilla/browser
[21:38] <asac> fta: I noticed a while ago that mozclient passes the right date to the client.mk checkout, but then just used the changelog date format for the MOZ_CO_DATE thing?
[21:38] <asac> or is that fixed?
[21:39] <fta> really ?
[21:39] <fta> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6713/
[21:40] <asac> let me check something :)
[21:41] <asac> fta: here is what i see
[21:41] <asac> -D "$(shell echo $(DEBIAN_DATE) | $(DATE_FILTER))"
[21:41] <asac> but in other place we have:
[21:41] <asac> -D "$(DEBIAN_DATE)"
[21:41] <asac> we use the latter for
[21:41] <asac> ifneq (,$(DEBIAN_DATE))
[21:41] <asac> so probably whenever you specify a date explicitly
[21:41] <asac> and thats what i saw: -D "20080101t1000"
[21:42] <fta> hm
[21:42] <asac> that was two weeks ago ... i planned to fix this, but then dropped the ball
[21:43] <asac> fta: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6715/
[21:44] <asac> makes sense?
[21:45] <fta> hm, it depends on the project. nss/nspr are direct co, ff/xul are using client.mk
[21:47] <asac> ack
[21:47] <fta> damn, how I could have let that pass through...
[21:48] <asac> no problem ... we can fix that for hardy
[21:49] <asac> but lets check if there are other places like this
[21:49] <asac> i don't see any
[21:50] <asac> i think with that fix maybe combined branch tags + dates might even work
[21:50] <asac> which would be a good thing to track branches i guess
[21:51] <asac> fta: let me know when i can upload 0.06.1 or 6a or something ;)
[21:53] <asac> or if you want me to prepare this
[21:53] <fta> couldn't it be 0.07 ?
[21:54] <fta> i'd like to keep the X.YY format
[21:54] <asac> fta: whatever you want. 0.06a would just better show that this is a pure glitch release
[21:54] <asac> but since we need a debdiff anyway for approval that should be ok
[21:55] <fta> your diff seems ok but it doesn't solve my base/content/overrides/ mystery
[22:02] <fta> do we have other bugs for m-devscripts ?
[22:03] <asac> fta: thats the only one i am aware of ... i doubt that there is another bug that qualifies for a freeze breach
[22:03] <fta> I only see bug 210314 but it's a whish bug so it could wait
[22:04] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 210314 in mozilla-devscripts "please add midbrowser and xulmidbrowser targets" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/210314
[22:04] <Volans> bene!
[22:07] <asac> mozilla bug 428382
[22:07] <ubotu> Mozilla bug 428382 in Download Manager "Choosing an helper application involve using a file pick in /usr/bin" [Normal,Unconfirmed] http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=428382
[22:07] <asac> fta: yes that should be done in intrepid
[22:09] <fta> so the next mozilla-devscripts will depend on bzr, cvs, git, hg and svn
[22:09] <fta> hmm
[22:13] <Volans> asac: bug #215375 and push of the .ubuntu branch done :)
[22:13] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 215375 in ubuntu-it-menu "Licensing issues in ubuntu-it-menu" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/215375
[22:13] <fta> asac, do you need a bug to push that?
[22:14] <asac> fta: yes. we need a bug, there we need a debdiff and need to close the bug in changelog
[22:15] <asac> at best keep the changelog verbose as well (on stable release quality leve)
[22:17] <fta> bug 215382
[22:19] <fta> bug 215382
[22:19] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 215382 in mozilla-devscripts "Please sponsor mozilla-devscripts 0.07" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/215382
[22:20] <asac> fta:  a please sponsor bug is not really a bug of the bug itself ;)
[22:20] <fta> well, it was that or another line with not much to say
[22:20] <asac> ill change the title
[22:21] <fta> "Fix checkout by dates" ?
[22:21] <asac> no wait a second :)
[22:27] <fta> ok, thx
[22:33] <asac> fta: did you verify that the patch fixes the bug?
[22:33] <fta> sure
[22:34] <asac> good
[22:50] <asac> fta: upload has happened
[22:50] <fta> wonderful
[22:59] <asac> yay gconf patch applied :)
[22:59] <asac> lets hope it doesn't pull in all kind of dependencies :(
[23:01] <fta> gconf patch ?
[23:01] <asac> let me find the bug
[23:01] <fta> Bug 215403
[23:01] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 215403 in firefox-3.0 "firefox download dialog state corrupted after running out of disk space" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/215403
[23:02] <fta> Bug 215399
[23:02] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 215399 in firefox-3.0 "firefox beta 3 does not always display images" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/215399
[23:02] <fta> some people are still getting black rectangles
[23:04] <asac> fta: bug 23369
[23:04] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 23369 in firefox "firefox(-gnome-support) should get proxy from gconf" [Unknown,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/23369
[23:05] <asac> fta: the user experience is awesome. its bi-directional. you can map settings from gconf to firefox. if you edit them in firefox they will change in gcnof and vice-versa :)
[23:05] <asac> the patch maps the setting for gconf for now
[23:06] <fta> the patch is huge
[23:06] <asac> yeah. and we need to rip parts of it to build from somewhere else because that directory will be build at a time where there are no base libs for "plain components" availabel yet ..
[23:07] <asac> once that is done we can give it back to upstream bug from where we took the start :)
[23:10] <Volans> asac: I have recommitted due to a mistake in the debian/changelog file, maybe have you see the bug
[23:11] <asac> Volans: if it wasn't merged to ubuntu-dev its ok
[23:11] <asac> otherwise please stay on top of ubuntu-dev always
[23:11] <asac> uncommitting on release branches is just ugly ;)
[23:11] <asac> and we try to not do that more or less successful nowadays ;)
[23:13] <asac> Volans: plesae branch the ~ubuntu-dev branch and fix on top of that
[23:14] <asac> sorry for this pickiness, but it makes sense :)
[23:15] <asac> Volans: ok. what you should do is: branch ~ubuntu-dev. then bzr merge https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~volans/firefox-extensions/ubuntu-it-menu.upstream
[23:15] <fta> asac, I don't see this gconf patch in 3.0, it seems late
[23:16] <asac> it won't be enabled by default. so i think its ok
[23:20] <Volans> asac:  after the merge with .upstream I have also to merge with the .ubuntu? (for the changes in the debian/* files)
[23:22] <asac> Volans: you should have droppped you branch and started on top of the ~ubuntu-dev
[23:22] <asac> thats the easiest way
[23:23] <asac> you branch the ubuntu-dev .ubuntu branch ... and merge the .upstream into that.
[23:23] <asac> then push to your branch
[23:23] <asac> (maybe use a different name)
[23:39] <Volans> asac: done: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~volans/firefox-extensions/ubuntu-it-menu.LP215375
[23:40] <asac> thanks will upload it tomorrow morning
[23:44] <Volans> asac: ok, thank you very much (if you prefer I can tell DktrKranz to do this)
[23:53] <asac> Volans: hmm . you should have added a new changelog entry with UNRELEASED during the merge and document in there as well
[23:53] <asac> anyway ... will take a look tomorrow.
[23:57] <Volans> asac: if you want I can change this now, as you prefer
[23:58] <asac> just add changelog entry for the upcoming release on top. that should be fine. document the fix in there.


[11:29] <mamarley> ricotz: Kernel 4.9 has been uploaded to Zesty staging, so I am working on some patches to make the NVIDIA drivers compile against it.  I already have 375.10 working and uploaded to my staging PPA and I hope to get 340 done before I leave for work, but I won't be able to do anything else until the afternoon.
[11:29] <mamarley> s/staging/proposed
[11:54] <ricotz> mamarley, hey, that is great, 367 is still important too
[11:57] <mamarley> OK.
[12:09] <mamarley> ricotz: My attempt to patch 340.98 has failed.  I can get it to compile, but it crashes badly with a storm of kernel oopses when it is loaded.  I think someone with more kernel knowledge than me is going to have to do that one.
[12:14] <ricotz> mamarley, if you have 375 working then 367 might be easier
[12:14] <mamarley> Yeah, I expect it will.
[12:15] <mamarley> But I am about to run out of time.
[12:16] <ricotz> I don't think I will have time for it, I wanted to look at thunderbird 51 later
[12:17] <mamarley> OK.  I will do it after I get home from work.
[16:10] <mamarley> tseliot: Hey, I noticed that kernel 4.9-rc5 had been uploaded to zesty-proposed, so I started trying to patch the NVIDIA drivers for it.  I did 375.10 successfully and I expect 370 and 367 will be similar, but I couldn't get 340 to work.  I applied https://raw.githubusercontent.com/manjaro/packages-extra/master/linux49-extramodules/nvidia-340xx/linux-4.9-rc2.patch to it which got it to build, but then it just crashes on startup complaining that
[16:10] <mamarley> the procfs entry is already registered and that the probe failed because the driver is already registered.
[16:11] <mamarley> It looks like it might be trying to initialize the driver multiple times, but I can't tell exactly what was going on.
[16:12] <tseliot> mamarley: thanks for letting me know. I'll have a look at it as soon as I'm done with another nvidia related bug in 14.04 (OEM work)
[16:13] <mamarley> tseliot: OK.  And if you want to look at or use the patches I have for 375, they are in ppa:mamarley/staging.
[16:13] <mamarley> Thanks!
[16:13] <tseliot> mamarley: great, thanks!


[00:17] <Seeker`> why does he keep on doing that?
[00:31] <Seeker`> Is ubottu currently supybot, or Seveas' replacement one
[00:32] <PriceChild> Seeker`: ubotu clone run by jussi
[00:32] <Seeker`> PriceChild: But is it a clone of the old or new ubotu?
[00:32] <PriceChild> old
[01:00] <wgrant> tonyyarusso: I do that to people.
[01:45] <ffm> Hey, I'd like to ask that emma be unbanned. I've talked with her (she didn't ask me to say this), and think she'll try not to violate the CoC again.
[01:46] <PriceChild> Hobbsee: around?
[02:06] <ffm> Anyone home...
[02:14] <elkbuntu> ffm, sorry, but emma has has more chances than anyone else. it would be setting dangerous precedence if she were unbanned now. until she actually understands that what she was doing was against our rules, then she has to live with the consequences of her repeated misbehaviour.
[02:16] <ffm> elkbuntu, She promises not to discuss irseek etc, and won't try to reopen old wounds.
[02:17] <elkbuntu> ffm, discussing irseek is not the main issue. her randomly PMing people is. we are currently aware she PMs anyone who she sees come through this channel.
[02:18] <ffm> ah.
[02:18] <elkbuntu> i'm somewhat guessing she PM'd you out of the blue?
[02:18] <ffm> elkbuntu, Well, yes.
[02:18] <elkbuntu> then i rest my case.
[02:18] <elkbuntu> sorry emma. nice try.
[02:18] <ffm> elkbuntu, But it wasn't an ubuntu channel.
[02:19] <elkbuntu> eh?
[02:19] <elkbuntu> what wasnt
[02:19] <ffm> elkbuntu, the PM wasn't prompted by my entering an ubuntu channel. CoC doesn't apply elsewhere, does it?
[02:20] <elkbuntu> ffm, what channel was it prompted by joining?
[02:20] <ffm> elkbuntu, well, #ubuntu on oftc.
[02:22] <elkbuntu> i'll let the trademark people know. thanks.
[02:26] <elkbuntu> ffm, if you have no further business, i'd ask you to help us by not idling in this channel.
[02:26] <ffm> elkbuntu, sure.
[02:28] <elkbuntu> um...
[02:28] <ffm> Yeah.
[03:31] <Hobbsee> PriceChild: yes
[03:31] <tonyyarusso> bazhang: We usually remove on an !away so they notice.
[03:32] <bazhang> tonyyarusso: thanks very much
[03:33] <Hobbsee> ah, an emma crony.
[03:33] <tonyyarusso> ompaul: General practice is to open +1 at the same time the repos open, which as I understand it should be in just a few days.
[03:33] <Hobbsee> glad to see that no one caved.
[03:35] <tonyyarusso> indeed
[03:35] <Hobbsee> is interesting, too, as ffm's quite sane, in -motu at least.
[03:51] <wgrant> tonyyarusso: Intrepid officially opened a few hours ago.
[03:51] <tonyyarusso> wgrant: oh yeah?
[03:51]  * tonyyarusso goes to look
[03:52] <tonyyarusso> just got home
[03:52] <tonyyarusso> you appear to be correct
[03:54] <tonyyarusso> Uh, what level is required for mode lock modification?   30?
[03:55]  * tonyyarusso wonders if Hobbsee, jenda, or elkbuntu can confirm that, waves big flag to make them look here
[03:55] <elkbuntu> tonyyarusso, i dare say so
[03:55] <Hobbsee> erm....i'm not sure
[03:55] <nalioth> tonyyarusso: what mlock needs changing?
[03:55] <Hobbsee> there's a way to find out, but i don't remember what it is
[03:55] <tonyyarusso> nalioth: #ubuntu+1 - repos are now open.
[03:56] <elkbuntu> i cant even join +1
[03:56] <Hobbsee> tonyyarusso: please, no.
[03:56] <tonyyarusso> elkbuntu: you should be able to chanserv invite.
[03:56] <tonyyarusso> Hobbsee: What?
[03:56] <Hobbsee> tonyyarusso: don't reopen it yet
[03:56] <tonyyarusso> Hobbsee: but that's what we've always done...
[03:57] <Hobbsee> tonyyarusso: it's unusable still, but OK...
[03:57] <tonyyarusso> Hobbsee: If we didn't open the channel until it was "usable" some releases wouldn't have IRC support until Alpha 4 :)
[03:57] <Hobbsee> well, OK, but please at least wait until the sync run is over.
[03:57] <Hobbsee> unless you're going to copy colin's words in the topic
[03:58] <tonyyarusso> Hobbsee: If you can supply them I'd be happy to.
[03:58] <tonyyarusso> provided they're CoC-safe and such ;)
[03:58] <Hobbsee> We do not recommend that users upgrade to Intrepid at this time; it is
[03:58] <Hobbsee> likely to be in very considerable flux until the initial round of merges
[03:58] <Hobbsee> is complete. As ever, any developers wishing to take the plunge at this
[03:59] <Hobbsee> early stage should ensure that they are comfortable with recovering from
[03:59] <Hobbsee> anything up to complete system failure.
[03:59] <tonyyarusso> I'm not sure if that will fit, but something to that effect (or worse) could be arranged.
[03:59] <Hobbsee> yeah
[03:59] <tonyyarusso> I'll work on crafting something.
[04:32] <Amaranth> Whoever reopens +1, don't forget to give me my access back :)
[05:05] <tonyyarusso> The above is with the proposal that arguments be limited to two per week, limited to five minutes or until told "no" three times, whichever comes first.
[05:05] <Hobbsee> Excellent.
[05:05] <tonyyarusso> In short, don't waste your time, and certainly I don't plan to do so for mine.
[05:06] <Hobbsee> tonyyarusso: and any ban removal has to go through you regardless, presumably, after they've gone through others, as you set the bans.
[05:06] <Hobbsee> as in, if the others say yes, she can be unbanned.
[05:06] <tonyyarusso> Hobbsee: That would be the general idea, yes.  (Presumably that would come from the council likely, unless circumstances change significantly.)
[05:07] <Hobbsee> tonyyarusso: ah yes, it would be a council decision too.
[05:07]  * Hobbsee merges dput in the background
[05:19] <tonyyarusso> ompaul: +1 now open btw
[05:19] <nalioth> lovely
[05:20] <bazhang> 6 months of 'isitout?'
[05:21] <tonyyarusso> hehe
[05:21] <Hobbsee> if they're that stupid, tell them yes.
[05:22] <bazhang> haha
[05:22] <bazhang> update Now ;]
[05:22] <nalioth> i think it's a bit early ( far earlier than usual ), but oh well
[05:22] <tonyyarusso> Last time around I upgraded about four days after this point.  That's insane though, and now my Hardy is broken all over and needs a fresh install.
[05:44] <Hobbsee> heya Madpilot!
[05:44] <Madpilot> hi Hobbsee
[07:37] <XceII> I was banned for running my big mouth. is there a way to reinstate me?.
[07:38] <XceII> be nice, I stfle.
[07:38] <XceII> tx
[07:45] <XceII> Folks, im serious , im repentant, please recourse me, tx
[07:46] <nickrud> XceII you'll have to find the op that banned you, he's (or the council) are the only people that can unban you
[07:46] <Hobbsee> oh dear.
[07:46] <Hobbsee> no more bot
[07:46] <XceII> thats a lie, ive ben baned 1 time beforehand, and it took ljl to be my hero
[07:47] <Hobbsee> nickrud: if you saw the offense, you can do it.
[07:47] <Hobbsee> nickrud: particularly seeing as no one is around
[07:47] <nickrud> Hobbsee I didn't
[07:47] <Hobbsee> nickrud: (in normal cases, it's a case of finding the op who did hte ban, yes)
[07:48] <nalioth> XceII: being argumentative w/o any reason isn't very nice
[07:48] <XceII> My apologize , it was not my intent
[07:50] <XceII> nalioth:  I completely understand the guideness of it all, please let me back, i sincerely apologize, without question.
[07:51] <Hobbsee> nalioth: can you stick your bot, or some other bot in please?
[07:51] <nalioth> mmkay
[07:51] <XceII> thank you
[07:51] <Hobbsee> ah, there we are
[07:52] <XceII> god bless you nalioth.
[07:52] <XceII> I will behave
[07:52] <XceII> with proise
[07:53] <XceII> promise, c? im pissong my pants
[07:53] <XceII> just let me in, ill behave.
[07:53] <XceII> thx
[07:53] <XceII> I stifle.
[07:54] <nalioth> XceII: i've reviewed the logs, and judging from your current hehaviour, i'm not inclined to unban you now
[07:55] <XceII> nalioth:  im not a bad guy, trust me. if, you reviewed those logs. i helped those with simplicity,
[07:56]  * ompaul looks on in the harsh light of dawn
[07:57] <XceII> nalioth:  i am not a brager but i do donate to conical monthly through another ip,
[07:58] <XceII> amnd no, im not some bdy
[07:59] <XceII> I apreciate your build. that being said, before you digress me. let me the fk back in. P L E A S E?
[07:59] <XceII> k?
[07:59] <XceII> nuff said
[08:01] <Hobbsee> by your behaviour in here, i'd say no too.
[08:01] <ompaul> Apr 27 09:54:25 <XceII> Melvinado: this is biggest ahole chan lol
[08:01] <ompaul> xceii tell you what - no
[08:01] <ompaul> !guidelines | XceII
[08:01] <ompaul> XceII, read that
[08:01] <XceII> ompaul:  hats a lie. man, i GIVE tio you folks monthly
[08:01] <XceII> thats
[08:01] <Hobbsee> XceII: we're not canonical, btw.
[08:02] <XceII> U knopw whaT
[08:02] <ompaul> XceII, get a grip btw
[08:03] <ompaul> XceII, you had a great time your company may have a support contract with Canonical, however this is the Ubuntu community and you have behaved in not nice fashion
[08:03] <XceII> iT WAS A SIMPLE BAN. WHATS UP WITH U FOLKS, iM A RETIRED ENGINEER STOP IT
[08:03] <XceII> sry caps
[08:03] <ompaul> XceII, for now my ban stands
[08:04] <XceII> ompaul:  stop being childish, wake up.
[08:04] <nalioth> have a nice evening, XceII
[08:04] <ompaul> XceII, I am well awake, note my intro the harsh light of dawn
[08:04] <Hobbsee> XceII: i'm not sure that ompaul's being the childish one here....
[08:05] <ompaul> let that last for a few minutes
[08:07] <ompaul> if he comes back suggest the following
[08:07] <ompaul> we have a word for behaviour such as yours, we call it trollish
[08:07]  * ompaul grins
[08:34] <ompaul> ok - there are a huge amount of bans caught by ballard - I am going to remove the ones that are IP based - as we don't have a ban tracker
[08:35] <ompaul> can you all check your logs for the nick bans
[08:35] <elkbuntu> ompaul, no prob
[08:35] <ompaul> if you own them think about if they are still valid
[08:36] <elkbuntu> what's the command to get the ban list in a dialog rather than a seperate window?
[08:37] <ompaul> client dependant - being lazy I use xchat ;-)
[08:37] <Gary> ompaul: that looked fun
[08:38] <ompaul> Gary, click click click and it all goes ;-)
[08:38] <Gary> I'm sure I set a mute, but cannot see it in the banlist
[08:38] <Gary> mind you, the banlist did scroll a lot :p
[08:39] <ompaul> Gary, check the bans that are left
[08:39] <elkbuntu> ompaul, i do too, but it's 'all ur focus belongs to me' attitude annoys me
[08:40] <elkbuntu> (the ban list window)
[08:40] <ompaul> elkbuntu, that is how I cope with it - I just move it to one side and read it slowly
[08:40] <ompaul> '=)
[08:40] <elkbuntu> ompaul, on the other hand, i give up bothering and move onto something less annoying
[08:41] <Gary> nope, it's gone, yay
[08:43] <ompaul> given that I used to clear out the ban list for anything older than 6 weeks I am wondering if in this new brave world we should just clear that which is over 2 weeks
[08:43] <ompaul> we have the numbers to cope with this level of banning and supposing we get a new bantracker we can use it to some effect
[08:46] <nalioth> if each op parses their bans on a daily basis, we wouldn't ned a bantracker so much
[08:46] <Gary> I like ompaul's 2 week suggestion
[08:46] <ompaul> nalioth, then we get a netsplit and people are not around on a daily basis so I don't think that works
[08:46] <ompaul> it would make it easier
[08:47] <nalioth> are any of you folks familiar with dircbot?
[08:48] <Hobbsee> no
[08:48] <ompaul> I kind of remember something - it was phils iirc
[08:48] <ompaul> useful but very annoying ;-)
[08:48] <nalioth> it is a bot used in ##windows, #freenode, #defocus and other places to keep track of bans
[08:49] <ompaul> you must comment your ban :)
[08:49] <nalioth> the 'annoying' can be programmed out of it
[08:49] <ompaul> there is that
[08:50] <ompaul> nalioth, I would pretty much say point jussi01 LjL yourself and whoever else thinks about bot usage in a serious way at it
[08:50] <nalioth> we need to get an "ubuntu bot owners association" meeting going to plot out where we want/need to go
[08:51] <ompaul> so schedule it
[08:51] <ompaul> whatyawaiting for hit that mailing list with all the force of a prearranged idea
[08:51] <nalioth> the nice thing about dircbot, is that if it's got an ACL entry, it can op and deban on schedule
[08:52] <nalioth> it also remembers ban history
[08:52] <ompaul> well the likes of the ones you would not want removed are floodbots ones and ... forwards to -ops
[08:52] <ompaul> but it is a good idea
[08:52] <nalioth> so you set those to 999 days ( and have it ignore floodbot bans )
[08:52] <ompaul> aye
[08:53] <ompaul> XceII, did you read the guidelines?
[08:53] <XceII> thx
[08:53] <XceII> yes
[08:53] <ompaul> now about you saying what I said was a lie
[08:53] <XceII> im sorrry
[08:53] <ompaul> ehh they are my logs
[08:53] <ompaul> ok come back in 24 hours - and we will have a chat about it
[08:54] <XceII> please please please let me back in, i respect you folks.
[08:54] <ompaul> !idle | XceII
[08:54] <ompaul> XceII, I made my mind up come back in 24 hours
[08:55] <XceII> ompaul:  please dont
[08:55] <ompaul> XceII, that is the way it is
[08:55] <XceII> Im ok now
[08:55] <ompaul> XceII, please come back in 24 hours
[08:55] <XceII> ok
[08:56] <ompaul> XceII,  now please leave of your own accord
[08:56] <ompaul> that can be remove in 18 - 24 hours if I am not here
[08:59] <Gary> with regards dircbot, the commenting is a great idea, as then when it expires, others know what it was about
[09:01] <XceII> 1 last word..thank you for your os. and thank you for putting up with my doofas ass, thx
[09:01] <XceII> your os completely r0x, thx
[09:02] <XceII> sry for being a big moth
[09:02] <XceII> Im angry, it has to be better
[09:02] <XceII> I luvu all
[09:03] <XceII> Biog time, i leave
[09:05] <XceII> 1 last word..want more moey? ask<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[09:06] <XceII> im  ready,
[09:06] <XceII> money?
[09:06] <XceII> im out, ME AD MY WIFE ARE NOT TO RICH,
[09:06] <elkbuntu> XceII, please stop saying things for attention. you've been told to calm down for 24 hrs then come back and ask civilly and patiently.
[09:07] <XceII> sry caps
[09:07] <XceII> ok
[09:08] <XceII> folks. dont make me go other.
[09:09] <XceII> I love u folks, why the ilk?
[09:10] <elkbuntu> XceII, you need to calm down.
[09:10] <XceII> talk to me, help me out. im pretty dumb here.
[09:11] <elkbuntu> which of 'calm down', 'ask civilly and patiently' do you need explained?
[09:11] <Gary> XceII: it might be best if you took a 24 period offline?  to calm down etc, go do real world things for a bit?
[09:11] <XceII> let me xplain. im a engineer form way back, I repair all facets of electronics
[09:12] <elkbuntu> XceII, nothing you do in terms of occupation rights you in behaving badly.
[09:12] <XceII> well said
[09:13] <ompaul> XceII, you seem to be beyond the scope of reasonable interaction if you don't want 7days to be requested you will depart now
[09:13]  * Hobbsee suggests XceII gets a support contract, o rsomething.
[09:13] <XceII> ompaul: please dont
[09:14] <elkbuntu> XceII, then please dont continue this today. come back tomorrow.
[09:15] <ompaul> XceII, ehh you have shown nothing but annoying semi aggression towards the people who give of their time freely to others - no you can't have a monopoly and you are heading for a further 7days away if you don't depart and stay departed now
[09:15] <XceII> ompaul:  agreed
[09:15] <elkbuntu> you seem to be an adult, so please display the patience of one. please /part this channel, and return on the morrow.
[09:15] <XceII> I astill love u ompaul
[09:15] <XceII> big time
[09:15] <XceII> no
[09:15] <XceII> in
[09:16] <XceII> not drunk
[09:16] <elkbuntu> XceII, proclamations of affection will not help you in any way, shape or form.
[09:16] <nalioth> or that
[09:16]  * jpatrick thinks that guy rings a bell...
[09:17] <elkbuntu> we met him on release day.
[09:17] <elkbuntu> and im sure he's been around before then
[09:17] <jpatrick> I think I remember him in #kubuntu once
[09:18] <elkbuntu> keep an eye on him, he'll probably find somewhere else to appear tonight
[10:05] <jpatrick> right, elkbuntu, he did come back
[10:07] <elkbuntu> where?
[10:07] <jpatrick> ^
[10:12] <elkbuntu> aha
[10:22] <elkbuntu> jussi01, ^^
[10:22] <jpatrick> It's coming back
[10:24] <Myrtti> @login
[11:50] <jussio1> good morning all!
[11:54] <Myrtti> moin jussio1
[12:13] <jpatrick> jussio1: oops
[14:23] <ubuntulover> what is a floodbot???
[14:25] <bazhang> ubuntulover: this is not a support channel
[14:25] <Myrtti> a bot that minimizes the effects of floods
[14:25] <Myrtti> be they intentional or not
[14:26] <Myrtti> ubuntulover: do you have any other questions regarding our IRC channels?
[14:26] <ubuntulover> this person called bazhang is banning me all the time
[14:26] <bazhang> ubuntulover: you were very disruptive in #ubuntu
[14:27] <ubuntulover> how
[14:27] <ompaul> !guidelines | ubuntulover have a look at this before you ask for "how"
[14:28] <ubuntulover> i am sooo sorry
[14:28] <ubuntulover> cry crying
[14:28] <bazhang> ubuntulover: please dont idle here
[14:28] <ompaul> wow you might be a little cynical there
[14:28] <Myrtti> ubuntulover: if you've got nothing else, please leave
[14:28] <ompaul> !idle | ubuntulover
[14:29] <ompaul> ubuntulover, is there anything else?
[14:29] <ubuntulover> the baz guy asked me to come here to stop my ban or somthing
[14:30] <bazhang> ubuntulover: you need to read the link given you and how to behave on ubuntu channels
[14:30] <ompaul> this is where you appeal bans but your attitude does not encourage people to assist you perhaps you should read the guidelines and come back in 24 horus
[14:30] <ompaul> hours even
[14:30] <ubuntulover> ok you are verry kind
[14:31] <ubuntulover> thank you
[14:31] <bazhang> ubuntulover: please go and come back in 24 hours if you wish to be reinstated
[14:32] <ompaul> bazhang, they said keeps banning me - how many times
[14:33] <bazhang> ompaul: just the once
[14:33] <ompaul> bazhang, ty
[14:33] <bazhang> unless he was switching names
[14:33]  * ompaul likes to think a little now and again
[14:33] <ompaul> there is that
[14:33] <ompaul> well we can't remove bellsouth or gnomefre1k gets banned ;-)
[14:34] <bazhang> haha
[14:34] <gnomefreak> i didnt bring him on
[14:34] <gnomefreak> and im still under this nick
[14:34] <ompaul> gnomefreak, ohh yeah ;-)
[14:35] <gnomefreak> and i keep hearing beeping
[14:35] <elkbuntu> ompaul, the guy has a bellsouth sip, which afaik means static ip ;)
[14:35] <ompaul> nice
[14:35] <ompaul> there are times and there are reasons
[14:35] <gnomefreak> see that was easy
[14:35] <gnomefreak> :)
[14:36] <gnomefreak> ompaul: can you kill it from freenode side?
[14:36] <gnomefreak> or am i rebooting
[14:36] <gnomefreak> restarting
[14:36] <ompaul> gnomefreak, I am not freenode staff and have not been for a long time ;-)
[14:36] <elkbuntu> paul has no nodefoo anymore
[14:36] <gnomefreak> oh
[14:36] <gnomefreak> sorry
[14:36] <ompaul> np
[14:36] <gnomefreak> brb gonna try to kill other name
[14:44] <gnomefreak> it worked
[14:49] <Nafallo> gnomefreak: how hard did you hit him, and with what?
[14:49] <gnomefreak> Nafallo: reboot
[14:50] <Nafallo> ah
[14:50] <gnomefreak> Nafallo: that reminded me of an old IRC hack
[14:52] <gnomefreak> it is/was called ICMP bomb
[14:53] <gnomefreak> not sure if its still possible and what servers its still possible on
[14:56] <elkbuntu> it's not something i advise discussing here
[15:03] <gnomefreak> elkbuntu: i know ;) but i thought that is what was going on with my client
[16:05] <mooperd> Hi, I cant join #kubuntu or #ubuntu cos Im on a web proxy, can this be fixed?
[16:05] <elkbuntu> !mibbit
[16:05] <elkbuntu> grrr
[16:06] <elkbuntu> did you get any instructions in the channel you got forwarded to?
[16:11] <elkbuntu> mooperd, i've asked you a question in #ubuntu-proxy-users. i cannot help you until you respond.
[16:13] <stdin> so you just join with mibbit and you get a nice message telling you to join #ubuntu, nice
[16:13] <elkbuntu> yep
[16:15] <elkbuntu> BunnyRevolution, are you here for any particular purpose?
[16:16] <stdin> I'm guessing by the ident/real-name it's a bot
[16:16] <elkbuntu> it's not.
[16:16] <stdin> just trying to masquerade as on then?
[16:16] <stdin> *one
[16:16] <elkbuntu> to stir trouble by doing so i suspect
[16:17] <elkbuntu> we have a word for that.
[16:20] <elkbuntu> BunnyRevolution, this channel is not for idling in, could you please either state your cause or make a dignified exit.
[16:23] <jpatrick> was that a bot?
[16:23] <jussio1> no
[16:23] <elkbuntu> no, a troublemaker afaik
[16:24] <jussio1> from a certain uncensored channel iirc
[16:24] <elkbuntu> yep
[16:24] <elkbuntu> feel free to treat it as an unwelcome bot though. if it wants to be a bot, it can be treated as one.
[16:24] <jussio1> hehe
[16:31] <Seeker`> he seems to have a habit of joining  and then parting again
[16:31] <nalioth> common for information gathering
[16:35] <jussio1> nalioth: Were you planning to send a mail to the list regarding a meeting about the bots?
[16:39] <nalioth> who all runs a bot, jussio1 ?
[16:40] <jussio1> nalioth: I meant the future of the bots etc.
[16:41] <nalioth> right.
[16:42] <PriceChild> Hobbsee: anything with fujisan lately?
[16:42]  * PriceChild isn't really here
[16:43] <jussio1> nalioth: earlier today, LjL mentioned dirc bot, and there are other proposals. Also, IIRC canonical was mentioned for hosting. I was wondering if you were planning to organise a meeting about such things?
[16:46] <PriceChild> elmo is going to talk with seveas jussio1
[16:46] <jussio1> PriceChild: ahh. ok then.  :)
[16:59] <bazhang> where is seveas?
[17:02] <nalioth> bazhang: seveas has chosen to leave the project
[17:02] <bazhang> nalioth thanks; sorry to hear that.
[17:05] <Myrtti> I'd really wish someone would also inform the the leaders of locoteams (that have an #*ubuntu* irc channel that it would be nice to have a small representation of the channels ops at -irc
[17:37] <bazhang> neo and Neo_The_User repeat trolling
[17:37] <bazhang><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[17:39] <nalioth> bazhang: neo has been idle over 2 days
[17:40] <bazhang> thanks nalioth had to mute him 4 times in last day or so
[17:40] <nalioth> bazhang: are you sure it was 'neo' ?
[17:41] <bazhang> and thomas anderson and one other name I forget at the moment
[17:48] <bazhang> think the 4th name may have been neo_c nalioth
[18:12] <Dont_Ban_Me> bazhang i hate that guy
[18:12] <Dont_Ban_Me> he banned me 50 t imes for no reason
[18:12] <bazhang> Dont_Ban_Me: you have been very disruptive in #ubuntu
[18:18] <BunnyRevolution> bot needed in xubuntu please
[18:20] <bazhang> well he is creative with his nicknames
[18:21] <bazhang> nalioth: any guidance on this situation?
[18:21] <nalioth> bazhang: is he banned from whatever #ubuntu channels he's disrupted?
[18:22] <bazhang> nalioth I thought the policy was to mute not ban
[18:22] <bazhang> Bazhang_sucks -<EMAIL_ADDRESS>same ip every time
[18:23] <jrib> ban/mute his ip instead of nick
[18:23] <bazhang> very new to this not sure how to do that
[18:23] <nalioth> bazhang: in this case, use a full ban
[18:24] <jrib>  /mode #ubuntu +b *!*@ip_here
[18:24] <nalioth> bazhang: you obviously have not seen what  determined troll can do with join/part
[18:24] <bazhang> jrib was afraid to ban all of #ubuntu
[18:24] <jrib> ha :)
[18:24] <jrib> bazhang: what client/script are you using?
[18:24] <bazhang> nalioth: yes, learning as I go; sorry for any missteps just two days in
[18:25] <bazhang> jrib konversation
[18:25] <jrib> LjL uses that, ask him for some pointers when he is around
[18:26] <bazhang> okay, thanks jrib
[18:26] <nalioth> bazhang: just because you've recently become an op doesn't mean you've been ignorant prior ( at least i hope not )
[18:27] <bazhang> nalioth: ignorant of the specific protocols; I see that my client has a dropdown now of ban certain person gui; been focusing on helping folks in the past and not looked into the specifics of operator side of things
[18:28] <bazhang> nalioth: and as I was instructed the policy of mute first seems to reach ban at around three/four mutes? or would that be just two
[18:29] <Seeker`> I think it depends on what exactly they are doing
[18:30] <bazhang> so the correct protocol here is ban at hostname correct?
[18:30]  * jussio1 eyes doom in #kubuntu and #ubuntu
[18:30] <nalioth> bazhang: how you ban is up to you
[18:31] <bazhang> thanks nalioth; did not want to do something outside of protocol
[18:34] <nalioth> being an op is learning about human nature
[18:35] <nalioth> not just 'how to work Ubuntu'
[18:35] <bazhang> I appreciate the insight
[18:49] <Myrtti> bazhang: if I tell you some times that your slip is showing, it's my light hearted way of telling you're still an op somewhere
[18:49] <bazhang> thanks Myrtti
[18:50] <Myrtti> I like the idea of telling people I see a tiny part of a lacy undergarment from below the hemline of a frock :-P
[18:51] <bazhang> ;]
[18:52] <nalioth> Myrtti: it is unfortunate that your comment would go over the head of quite a few young ladies in the USA
[18:53] <Myrtti> I just watched a document about Nigella Lawson today
[18:55] <Myrtti> I think it was sort of semi funny that feminists got angry when she wrote a book they presumed to be a homage to housemakership
[18:55] <Myrtti> I bet some of the most militant once would make similar complaints about my remark too
[18:56] <Myrtti> wah, my english spelling lapses sometimes
[18:56] <Myrtti> s/once/ones/
[19:16] <ompaul> Myrtti, who cares about spelling lapses, the expression left little to be misunderstood, miss ;-)       (woops so afterthought) the point, not at all it was communicated well enough and there was enough context so what a load of rubbish I have spoken on this subject
[19:18] <Myrtti> ompaul: I do care about the lapses since it's a battle I fight with my English every day :-P
[19:19] <Myrtti> and I particularly hate the spelling lapses that are based on the pronounciation of the words as a native Finnish speaker
[19:20] <ompaul> Myrtti, must be a cultural thing, we don't care one jot - ask topyli or mneptok about our abuse of the language
[19:20] <nalioth> ompaul: mneptok abuses humanity
[19:21] <ompaul> I want to eject the CD from irc ...
[19:21] <ompaul>  /exec -o eject :)
[19:23] <Myrtti> I'm actually quite anal about spelling mistakes on any language
[19:23] <Myrtti> though my Swedish has detiorated to such a degree I don't care about the typos I do with using it
[19:26] <Nafallo> hmm
[19:27] <Myrtti> sorry Nafallo :->
[20:03] <PriceChild> I hope we're not following emma on other servers.
[20:04] <gnomefreak> i havent seen her
[20:04] <gnomefreak> since -party was open
[20:07] <ompaul> PriceChild, there are other servers? ;-)
[21:02] <Gary> so they say, but I don't believe them
[21:20] <test3r> Hello! I am banned from ##Ubuntu still for a tiny incident that happened over a week ago, & was told I would be unbanned the next day.
[21:20] <test3r> it was late and I was tyring to help someone and was doing it wrong I gues
[21:21] <Myrtti> would you perhance remember the nick of the op?
[21:21] <test3r> Sorry - I do not
[21:21] <Myrtti> :-Z
[21:22] <Myrtti> our bantracker is offline
[21:22] <Myrtti> /me checks the bans
[21:22] <test3r> I'm only here to ask one thing Anyway
[21:22] <Myrtti> urghhh
[21:22] <test3r> did they fix the burner thruput?
[21:23] <test3r> can we burn on anything above 6.1 ??? Yet?
[21:23] <test3r> or is it still PowerInitFAIL
[21:24] <Myrtti> I don't know, sorry
[21:24] <test3r> ????  Burning a disk is a pretty common task, & I actually have special ones to test.
[21:24] <test3r> Disks with a 600K footer
[21:24] <Myrtti> ie. your googling is as good as mine
[21:24] <test3r> OK so you haven't heard anything about that though, OK.
[21:25] <Myrtti> I don't own a burner yet
[21:25] <test3r> That's poopy. Support a distro for 3+ years and I get banned in main help channel.
[21:26] <test3r> I have one you can have.
[21:26] <test3r> It doesn't even burn on disks you buy at the store. I had to get a New Burner to do that.
[21:26] <Myrtti> I don't know what the background for your ban was since the bantracker is offline
[21:26] <test3r> Nuthin like Spare Burners
[21:26] <Myrtti> so I cannot comment on it
[21:27] <Myrtti> if the ban was unjust, I'm sorry for that
[21:27] <test3r> it might have been a little 3-AM-ish on the admins part, but hey, I guess he's just doing his job? Nuthin I can do about that.
[21:28] <test3r> Catch ya round
[21:31] <Myrtti> hello niche
[21:31] <niche> hello
[21:31] <Myrtti> how can you be helped tonight?
[21:31] <niche> i've never, ever been in #ubuntu and my address is mysteriously banned
[21:31] <niche> not sure if this applies to kubuntu as well (let me check)
[21:32] <Myrtti> I suspect the reason is you ident
[21:32] <niche> so it's a problem on _my_ side
[21:32] <niche> ok, i'll try to fix this
[21:32] <Myrtti>  niche<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[21:33] <niche> so change it to a real name, like MarkSmith@[optonline]?
[21:34] <Myrtti> what ever that doesn't have language that can be interpreted offensive
[21:35] <niche> alright, i will try doing that and hope the channel automatically unbans me
[21:35] <niche> thanks
[21:35] <Myrtti> np
[21:41] <stdin> Myrtti: it was actually the real name
[21:41] <Myrtti> damn
[21:41] <stdin> he's still online, in #kubuntu too
[21:42] <Myrtti> /me loads yet another irssi script
[21:45] <stdin> why do they keep doing that?
[21:46] <stdin> it's not an auto-join because they didn't disconnect/reconnect, I would have seen that in #k
[21:53] <Myrtti> /exec wget http://irssi.org/scripts/scripts/autorealname.pl;mv autorealname.pl .irssi/scripts/autorun
[21:53] <Myrtti> <3
[21:54] <Myrtti> nice to see the realname bans don't apply to foreign language real names ;-)
[21:57] <Gary> nice script Myrtti
[21:58] <Myrtti> I've had it before, but I've forgotten to download to this server
[22:02] <Gary> I like the way of downloading it too :p
[23:39] <PriceChild> Hey nickellery
[23:46] <nickellery> hi there
[23:46] <ompaul> PriceChild, ^^
[23:52] <PriceChild> nickellery: I think i remember you for some reason..
[23:53] <nickellery> PriceChild: you were speaking to me yesterday =P
[23:56] <jussi01> sorry bout the nick spam :/
[23:56] <Tm_T> aww
[23:57] <PriceChild> nickellery: aha you applied to the ubuntu-irc team on launchpad
[23:58] <nickellery> PriceChild: Yea, that's me :D


[15:38] <sadmac2> how can a netsplit between the same 2 servers cause 2 wholly different sets of people to drop?
[15:40] <suihkulokki> freenode is problably masking what servers really did split
[15:40] <sadmac2> ah
[15:41] <sadmac2> well now we're onto them
[15:42] <suihkulokki> yeah, whenever there is a netsplit it just says split between myserver.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net
[15:42] <sadmac2> ah
[15:43] <sadmac2> kornbluth sounds like it'd be in the UK
[15:43] <sadmac2> if it were a town
[22:40] <sadmac> notting_: just sent Scott a patch for our crasher bug