[00:16] <dw1> so yeah, screensaver kicking in every 10 minutes no matter if there's activity, even with caffeine loaded and screensaver disabled :o
[00:17] <dw1> not sure when it started - didnt notice it before.
[00:17] <dw1> perhaps after some recent updates
[00:18] <ggreer> I get double lock screen when idling. also I get a gray screen if I lock my computer manually and then try to unlock it later
[00:19] <ggreer> and if I resume from suspend, there's a second or so gap when the lock screen isn't enabled. I can quickly change focus to terminals and other windows
[00:19] <ggreer> so... I don't really trust that laptop with anything sensitive
[00:22] <dw1> ouch
[00:24] <dw1> saw something about double lock screen in searching, lost it :(
[00:26] <dw1> are thye both the same style of screen or different versions
[00:28] <dw1> hmm i had two gnome-screensaver running
[00:32] <dw1> that was probably it
[00:41] <nbros652> Automount for usb is not working. Any ideas? I get a message saying "Unable to access USBLABEL     Not authorized to perform operation." I just installed the system about 3 days ago, installed my usual programs, shut it down, and didn't boot again until today. On boot, I was getting this error... Just finished running updates.
[00:47] <zubuntu> hi
[03:21] <ubuntulivekkkkkk> Hello, I have some issues that resulted from removing Ubuntu-s 14.04 partition and booting to any other partitions. Can I post my issue here?
[04:42] <roasted> hello friends.
[04:42] <roasted> is anybody else seeing that empathy doesn't put the # of new messages overtop of the empathy icon in the unity bar?
[04:42] <`Fibz> hi
[04:42] <`Fibz> i can test
[04:42] <roasted> I can't find any existent bugs on it
[04:43] <roasted> `Fibz: I assume you know how to recreate it?
[04:43] <roasted> (someone messages you when empathy is not the active app)
[04:43] <`Fibz> k
[04:43] <roasted> I seem to get the message number *IF* it's a new conversation, as in, if Bob IMs me, I see the 1 over the icon. But once I engage in conversation, consecutive messages do not list the 1 over the empathy icon
[04:44] <roasted> so you need to do a quick volley of messaging back and forth, then background it, then have them IM you
[04:54] <roasted> any luck `Fibz?
[04:54] <`Fibz> having trouble getting empathy to sign in
[04:55] <kblin> morning folks
[04:55] <roasted> once or twice I had to remove my account and re-add it altogether
[04:55] <roasted> hey there kblin
[04:56] <kblin> I've recently updated my xubuntu 13.04 laptop to 14.04, and I just noticed that my volume control keys stopped working
[04:56] <kblin> that's like the first time in 6 years that I had buttons on a thinkpad not working. any hints what I'm missing?
[04:56] <roasted> random curiosity, does it work via livecd?
[04:58] <kblin> haven't tried, let me see if I can find a usb key to boot from
[05:04] <arctictelecom> Hello
[05:04] <roasted> hi
[05:05] <arctictelecom> I just installed 14.04 and I want to install the Cinnamon DE. It worked fine in all of the other Ubuntu distros but not this one.
[05:05] <`Fibz> I GIVE UP. EMPATHY DOES NOT WORK AT ALL OVER HERE
[05:05] <`Fibz> oops
[05:05] <roasted> lol
[05:06] <ggreer> haha
[05:06] <kblin> roasted: http://ulno.net/2011/04/16/mixer-control-with-multimedia-keys-und-multiple-soundcards-in-xfce4-on-debian-or-ubuntu/ fixed it for me, btw
[05:06] <roasted> `Fibz: do you use pidgin or not much of a messenger?
[05:06] <roasted> kblin: nice
[05:06] <ggreer> my media keys work but my backlight brightness doesn't :(
[05:06] <ggreer> it stays stuck at maximum even though the indicator moves around randomly when I hit increase/decrease
[05:06] <kblin> so basically adding an active-card settings entry for xfce-mixer
[05:06] <kblin> ggreer: got the same thing on my work thinkpad
[05:07] <ggreer> mine is a thinkpad x140e
[05:07] <ggreer> also known as the edge e145 overseas IIRC
[05:07] <`Fibz> i use pidgin. but the machine next to me had empathy. i decided i wanted to give empathy a try and now im headed back to pidgin  :P
[05:07] <kblin> ggreer: funny thing is that the button seems to work fine in the console
[05:07] <ggreer> I'm pretty sure it's a bug in the thinkpad acpi module
[05:07] <roasted> `Fibz: might have to head that way myself. Does pidgin give you a number over the icon in the unity bar?
[05:08] <`Fibz> will have to wait. need to install pidgin on that machine and it's getting it's updates right now
[05:08] <kblin> ggreer: so what I do on my x140 is that I ctrl-alt-f1, set the display brightness on the console and then ctrl-F7 back to the GUI
[05:08] <Phibs> so I'm running trusty, and I upgraded openssl for the heartbleed bug, and http://filippo.io/Heartbleed/ seems to still think it is vuln
[05:08] <kblin> ggreer: arguably it'd be nicer if it just worked (tm)
[05:09] <roasted> `Fibz: I wonder if there's a way to have the system auto-message you 5 seconds later to test.
[05:09] <roasted> `Fibz: nobody is online now for me to see how pidgin works with that.
[05:09] <kblin> incidently, I just tested on my r500, and brightness settings work fine there
[05:09] <`Fibz> i have pidging running on this machine
[05:09] <`Fibz> i can PM you my contact info
[05:10] <roasted> sure - I'd be interested to test
[05:10] <ggreer> kblin: you have the x140e as well? buttons don't work at all in the console for me
[05:10] <ggreer> the only way I can get the brightness to change is by booting into windows
[05:11] <kblin> I'm not sure mine says "e"
[05:11] <zubuntu> .
[05:11] <kblin> i forgot, frankly :)
[05:11] <ggreer> http://fujii.github.io/2014/03/02/thinkpad-edge-e145-backlight-brightness-issue/ <-- my issue is exactly the same as this dude
[05:11] <ggreer> kblin: what's the CPU in it?
[05:11] <ggreer> should be an AMD A4-5000 or E2-2500
[05:12] <ggreer> *E1-2500
[05:13] <kblin> ah, hang on, false alarm, we wanted to order the x-series at some point but that didn't work out, so we got t-series instead
[05:13] <kblin> sorry :)
[05:13] <ggreer> the x130e was intel
[05:13] <ggreer> ah
[05:13] <kblin> but that one also has backlight setting issues, at least in X
[05:14] <ggreer> with the right software, the thinkpad could be a very nice laptop
[05:14] <roasted> our x130e's at work are AMD APU's
[05:14] <ggreer> oh yeah. the x130e did have an option for AMD E350s I think
[05:15] <roasted> E450
[05:15] <roasted> pretty sure
[05:15] <ggreer> did you guys have backlight issues?
[05:15] <roasted> no, but we're on 12.04
[05:15] <ggreer> I tried 12.04. it crashed on startup
[05:15] <ggreer> even the live usb stick
[05:15] <roasted> ...ours didnt?
[05:15] <ggreer> same usb stick worked fine on other computers :(
[05:16] <kblin> but speaking of work, time for me to get there
[05:17] <roasted> ggreer: run the checker to make sure it was okay?
[05:17] <ggreer> I did. it verified
[05:17] <roasted> ...I have no idea then
[05:17] <roasted> we have 1,000 of the x130e's on 12.04..
[05:17] <ggreer> 13.10 also crashed with a similar error. 14.04 boots and runs, but there are lots of annoying little issues
[05:18] <roasted> I had 13.10 on a few too, mostly for tinkering though
[05:18] <roasted> I did install 14.04 on one but never tested the brightness
[05:18] <roasted> really just installed it to see how unity ran on it
[05:26] <weena> hello
[05:27] <weena> i haz a problem :(
[05:35] <weena> volume is at 100% when the computer boots and login screen chime (bongos) is super loud
[05:35] <weena> the computer can be shut down at 30% volume, it always is at 100% for the login bongos, then after the user logs in its 30% again
[06:13] <hyde> This seems to be failing with apt-get update: [Connecting to fi.archive.ubuntu.com (<IP_ADDRESS>)]
[06:13] <hyde> what would be the right corrective action, if I want to update and install a few packages now?
[06:13] <hyde> have not touch apt repositories since I installed beta2 yesterday
[06:13] <hyde> (and it was working yesterday)
[06:14] <hyde> have not touched the apt configuration, I mean
[06:15] <rww> changed /etc/apt/sources.list to point to somewhere else
[06:15] <hyde> for example, should I just replace fi.archive.ubuntu.com at /etc/apt/sources.list, and be done with it?
[06:17] <hyde> hmm, running lubuntu, which lacks the graphical apt configuration tool, looks like
[06:17] <hyde> nope, found it, good
[06:36] <caskaid> anyone using a vpn via network-manager-gnome-openvpn?
[07:02] <caskaid> figured out the vpn issue actually and tracked on bug tracker
[07:13] <guest76> Hello
[07:15] <`Fibz> hi
[07:16] <guest76> Hello
[07:16] <guest76> any way to make libreoffice to start?
[07:17] <`Fibz> are you getting an error?
[07:17] <guest76> it just hangs with a semi transparent window
[07:18] <guest76> I have upgraded distribution today
[07:18] <`Fibz> hmm... i would just uninstall it and re-install it
[07:18] <guest76> Ok I'll try that
[07:18] <guest76> thanks
[07:19] <guest76> let you know if it worked
[07:55] <Kartagis> hi
[07:55] <Kartagis> do we get new apt version with 14.04
[07:55] <Kartagis> ?
[07:59] <Kartagis> do we get the new apt version with 14.04?
[08:00] <lordievader> !patience | Kartagis
[08:01]  * Kartagis sulks and goes to wait in the corner
[08:05] <yofel> !info apt trusty
[08:05] <yofel> Kartagis: that's what we have now ^
[08:06] <Kartagis> when do we get 1.0? I hear debian already has it.
[08:07] <yofel> it's in unstable, yes. But I seriously dout anyone's going to update it in ubuntu 2 days before final freeze. (Then again, I did not check for if there's a plan)
[08:07] <onlty> If you want to get 1.0, you could install those packages directly. However, I'm not sure if it breaks the dependecy or stability.
[08:08] <onlty> Whether 1.0 works in Ubuntu or not is not sure, so install it as your own risk.
[08:08] <onlty> *in
[08:19] <Kartagis> thanks
[08:25] <utack> did someone test a android phone with ubuntu 14.04 yet?  do thumbnails for pictures work now?
[08:26] <k1l> are you talking about ubuntu-touch or regular ubuntu-desktop?
[08:27] <k1l> ah, wait. you mean connected with usb-cable?
[08:40] <utack> k1l, the regular one
[08:40] <utack> and yes, when i connect my android phone it can not generate thumbnails
[08:40] <utack> so for example the DCIM folder is a pool of anonymous file names until i copy it over completely
[08:54] <Dry_Lips> Can anyone confirm that "create new document" is missing from the context menu (right click) in Nautilus?
[09:02] <PatBateman> hey
[09:02] <PatBateman> 14.04 default background looks nice :) btw very stable imo
[09:03] <k1l> utack: file names work, but i dont have thumbnails enabled so i just see the icons
[09:04] <utack> k1l, okay thanks
[09:10] <Chipaca> my mouse's middle button has stopped working in an update recently
[09:10] <Chipaca> has anybody else had this?
[10:00] <faqih_dan_kucing> helo
[10:17] <ironhalik> hmm
[10:18] <ironhalik> my trusty boots, and looses all input ufter boot
[10:18] <ironhalik> on every kernel, on normal mode and rescue mode
[10:18] <ironhalik> recovery mode
[10:18] <ironhalik> any ideas?
[11:42] <Fudge> have you waited a while
[12:04] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[13:16] <roasted> hello friends
[13:50] <utack> oh no. have to install ubuntu 14.04 with the intel gpu because the free drivers completely mess up with nvidia, so i cannot use the gui installer
[13:52] <Phibs> any idea why openssl isn't patched in trusty yet?
[13:53] <Pici> it is.
[13:54] <k1l> Phibs: did you look in the changelog?
[13:54] <lordievader> Phibs: Change logs shows the patch: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/trusty/+source/openssl/1.0.1f-1ubuntu2
[13:54] <Phibs> weird
[13:54] <Phibs> cause all of the 'testers' still say vuln
[13:54] <k1l> http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/main/o/openssl/openssl_1.0.1f-1ubuntu2/changelog
[13:54] <Phibs> ii  openssl                                        1.0.1f-1ubuntu2              amd64                        Secure Sockets Layer toolkit - cryptographic utility
[13:55] <rww> have you restarted the services you're testing since the upgrade?
[13:55] <Phibs> yes
[13:55] <Phibs> rebooted whole vm
[13:55] <Phibs> http://filippo.io/Heartbleed/#www.bsd-unix.net
[13:55] <Phibs>  www.bsd-unix.net IS VULNERABLE.
[13:56] <Phibs> restarted apache just now and now it says not vuln lol
[13:56] <Phibs> ok I spose I fail ;0
[13:56] <Phibs> thanks!
[13:56] <Pici> :)
[13:56] <Phibs> swear to god I apt-get updated
[13:56] <Phibs> and rebooted ;0
[13:56] <Phibs>  09:56:50 up 10:56,  3 users,  load average: 0.04, 0.09, 0.07
[13:59] <Phibs> I wonder if automagic escurity updates updated something again after I did
[14:06] <roasted> well, shucks. My bug report just got listed as low priority. hmph.
[14:06] <roasted> This hizzy should be omgosh critical red alert call the president! :P
[14:06] <rww> thank you for bringing it to our attention. i will reclassify your bug shortly
[14:06] <rww> to wishlist
[14:08] <roasted> rww: <3
[14:16] <unkerror> which kernel version will Trusty use in the final release?
[14:18] <k1l> 3.13
[14:18] <unkerror> thanks
[14:19] <Wnt> unkerror: kernel freeze happened 5 days ago https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseSchedule and current version is 3.13 http://packages.ubuntu.com/source/trusty/linux-meta
[16:44] <elfy> xubuntu265: you'll find some of the same people :)
[16:46] <elfy> apt-cache policy libssl1.0.0
[16:47] <elfy> if you get 1.0.1f-1ubuntu2 then that is the updated package
[16:47] <xubuntu265> Installed: 1.0.1f-1ubuntu2
[16:47] <xubuntu265> sweet, so im good?
[16:47] <elfy> that's the one then :)
[16:48] <xubuntu265> cool, thank you :)
[16:48] <monkwitdafunk> which kernel are you users giving QA to?
[16:49] <monkwitdafunk> i remember seeing kernel 3.5.x witg ubuntu alternate
[16:49] <monkwitdafunk> with*
[16:49] <elfy> 3.13.0-23 here
[16:51] <monkwitdafunk> i think i should install alternate 12.04.3 to double check which kernel i get
[16:52] <elfy> oh sorry - thought you were talking about 14.04
[16:53] <monkwitdafunk> yeah. i want to talk about it as well but i will wait for the official torrent file to he mirrored
[16:53] <monkwitdafunk> to be*
[16:53] <monkwitdafunk> this is great
[16:59] <SonikkuAmerica> In Xubuntu Trusty, the sound indicator is gone, and I get no sound unless I plug my headphones in. What should I do?
[17:21] <SonikkuAmerica> Hi diogobaeder
[17:21] <diogobaeder> Hi SonikkuAmerica !
[17:21] <diogobaeder> Hi guys! Hey, I can't upgrade from Saucy to Trusty, the upgrade-manager seems to be getting stuck at several package problems, but this hasn't happened before. Can anyone give me a hand at this? This is a list of package problems I'm seeing in apt.log: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7222508/
[17:22] <SonikkuAmerica> diogobaeder: Did you [ sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade ] before you tried to perform the release upgrade?
[17:22] <diogobaeder> SonikkuAmerica, yep. I tried restarting as well. But doesn't seem to cut it.
[17:23] <SonikkuAmerica> !dist-upgrade diogobaeder: That's just a dist-upgrade.
[17:23] <SonikkuAmerica> !dist-upgrade
[17:24] <SonikkuAmerica> diogobaeder: Try [ do-release-upgrade ]
[17:24] <SonikkuAmerica> diogobaeder: Try [ do-release-upgrade -d ], not that other thing.
[17:24]  * diogobaeder tries
[17:37] <diogobaeder> SonikkuAmerica, still with the same issue: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7222605/
[17:37] <dw1> hi, what is the mount point for nautilus ftp folders? can't find it in ~/.gvfs or /run/gvfs
[17:37] <diogobaeder> even after sudo dpkg --configure -a
[17:37] <SonikkuAmerica> diogobaeder: If all else fails, try the Beta 2 image at http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/trusty/beta-2/
[17:37] <SonikkuAmerica> but let's try fixing a broken apt
[17:37] <diogobaeder> SonikkuAmerica, ack, I'll try with that image then
[17:37] <diogobaeder> SonikkuAmerica, ack
[17:38] <dw1> nevermind got it
[17:38] <SonikkuAmerica> diogobaeder: First try [ sudo apt-get install -f ]
[17:38] <diogobaeder> SonikkuAmerica, done
[18:14] <Junk> Any kubuntu 14.04 users I can bounce a question off of real quick?
[18:15] <lordievader> Junk: Sure, what's up?
[18:15] <Junk> Basically on every startup driver manager loads down in my systray, causing a notification, etc. And this is after I have all the available propietary drivers installed. It's just kind of annoying
[18:15] <Junk> So, wanted to see if it happens for anyone else, or if I could stop it from happening somehow.
[18:16] <lordievader> Junk: I don't use any additional drivers on my Trusty box, so I cannot say.
[18:16] <Junk> This is obviously the new driver manager I am referring to.
[18:16] <Junk> lordievader: but do you have any available?
[18:16] <Junk> ie, so the driver manager would be triggered?
[18:17] <Junk> It doesn't matter if I don't use any prop drivers or not, the damn thing still shows on every boot, triggering a notification. I suppose I could disable notifications for it, but it would still load in the systray.
[18:17] <lordievader> No, most of the hardware is Intel stuff.
[18:18] <lordievader> I'll boot it up though to make sure.
[18:18] <Junk> Ah ok. I'm uising a gaming laptop, newest gen. It has a intel i7, but nvidia gpu and broadcom AC wifi
[18:19] <Junk> It is a upgrade and not a clean install, but I don't see why that would be the issue in this case.  The upgrade went without a hitch when I originally did it a couple weeks back.
[18:20] <Junk> I don't see any bugs for it in the bug tracker, but then again I really can't stand the layout of the launchpad bug tracker to begin with. Wish their wash a seperate one just for kubuntu. :-/
[18:21] <lordievader> I get the message that my language support can be improved but nothing about drivers.
[18:22] <lordievader> Separate launchpad for Kubu doesn't make sense...
[18:22] <lordievader> And no additional drivers available either.
[18:23] <Junk> It makes sense for me. Or at least have a category where you can look for bugs that are kubuntu only
[18:25] <lordievader> Junk: Something like: https://bugs.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-bugs
[18:26] <Junk> Hmm yeah. Interesting kubuntus own site doesnt link to that when it mentions their own bug tracker
[18:26] <Junk> It links to the standard ubuntu bug tracker
[18:26] <Junk> ie: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Bugs
[18:26] <Pici> But you can install every package in 'kubuntu' in Ubuntu. They all use the same repositores.
[18:26] <Pici> *repositories. (can't spell today)
[18:27] <holstein> kubuntu *is* ubuntu
[18:27] <lordievader> Exactly that's why it doesn't make sens to have a separate launchpad for Kubu ;)
[18:29] <Junk> I realize this
[18:30] <Junk> Though kubuntu is no longer "official" as of a few years ago iirc
[18:31] <lordievader> ?
[18:32] <holstein> Junk: no. it is
[18:32] <Junk> http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/linux-and-open-source/ubuntu-pulls-the-official-plug-on-kubuntu/3417/
[18:32] <holstein> Junk: kubuntu *is* ubuntu, and uses the default sources/repositories. same as main ubuntu and xubuntu/lubuntu etc
[18:32] <Junk> I realize this
[18:32] <holstein> !kubuntu
[18:32] <Junk> sigh....
[18:33]  * Junk is not a noob
[18:33] <lordievader> Junk: It is now backed by Bluesystems if that is what you mean.
[18:33] <Junk> That is exactly what I mean. Cannonical dropped it
[18:33] <holstein> Junk: there was a paid developer. thats what was dropped
[18:33] <holstein> Junk: nothing was dropped other than that
[18:33] <holstein> Junk: kubuntu is an official flavor
[18:34] <Junk> Not according to ubuntu
[18:34] <lordievader> Also according to Ubuntu.
[18:34] <holstein> Junk: yes.. according to everyone
[18:34] <holstein> Junk: this is fact, friend
[18:34] <lordievader> Else it couldn't bear the name Kubuntu.
[18:35] <holstein> Junk: there was a paid cannonical developer for kubuntu.. they dropped that paid position.. thats all
[18:35] <Junk> lordievader: there are plenty of *buntu flavors that are not "official" and use the name
[18:35] <PaulW2U> Junk: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuFlavors
[18:36] <Junk> I really don't care, not sure why you guys are making such a big deal.
[18:36] <holstein> Junk: there are only a few that are "official", and kubuntu is one of them
[18:36] <holstein> Junk: i am personally only "making a big deal" for clarity sake
[18:37] <Junk> Then why did canonnical say themselves it is no longer official? I understand it is semantics, and nothin really changed of value, but they did say that.
[18:37] <Junk> Ya know what? Nevermind, im done arguing semantics that are incredibly pointless
[18:37] <holstein> Junk: the link you gave says that the paid developer was dropped.. *not* kubuntu
[18:38] <Junk> They ended paid support also
[18:38] <Junk> Not just the developer
[18:38] <hyde> some kind of related question: is there a Mate/Gnome2 version of *buntu14.04?
[18:38] <Junk> nothing official
[18:39] <holstein> Junk: kubuntu is an official flavour.. it *is* ubuntu
[18:39] <Junk> Jesus christ...
[18:39] <Junk> Have a cow... oh wait, you are one according to your nick :P
[18:39] <holstein> Junk: please use an offtopic channel for chat.. thanks!
[18:39] <Junk> Chat? I am responding to you
[18:40] <Junk> And when I last said "nothing official" I was replying to hyde
[18:41] <lordievader> Since when does paid support make something official? Just that Canonical dropped their payed support doesn't make it less of an official Ubuntu flavour.
[18:41] <Junk> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kubuntu-devel/2012-February/005782.html
[18:42] <holstein> Junk: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuFlavors lists the official flavors
[18:42] <Junk> Again, pointless conversation.
[18:42] <hyde> Junk: about the KDE thing, if you can install the DE with single command from the official repos, I'd say that is "official" for most practical purposes...
[18:43] <hyde> (I assume getting KDE desktop is still going to be one apt-get away)
[18:43] <holstein> you can always just install KDE, and not kubuntu-desktop.. but, kubuntu-desktop should pull in what you need to change whatever ubuntu into kubuntu
[18:43] <Junk> Of course. Nothing changed
[18:43] <Junk> But repositoiry sharing does make something official. Is mint an official flavor? :P
[18:44]  * hyde is Xubuntu/Lubuntu refugee, who never "got" KDE, and hasn't really given Unity a real chance
[18:44] <holstein> Junk: no.. since they add sources, and are not an official ubuntu flavour
[18:44] <Junk> Anyways, disappointing I cannot make a bug report for driver manager
[18:45] <hyde> ...is it possible to turn Ubuntu into Mint just by tweaking repos, btw? I mean, theoretically, without need to manually fix things.
[18:45] <holstein> hyde: you should find that information at mint sites..
[18:46] <holstein> hyde: mint is "based" on ubuntu, so, nothing in ubuntu is preventing that
[18:46] <Junk> hyde: i suppose you could, but i would think some fixing would be in order
[18:57] <john_rambo> May be I didnt searched properly but when I serached for Ubuntu 14.04 I found the Beta 2 ....Its downloading now ...Is it too old in comparision to daily ? Is it usable ?
[18:58] <rww> it works fine, just do a normal system update once it's installed
[18:59] <RFleming> rww, libssl1.0.0 1.0.1f-1ubuntu2 is the patched version for 14.04 correct?
[18:59] <john_rambo> rww, Okay ...just one more thing ...Aftre using dd to write the image to usb is there a way to use the remaining space on the usb drive to backup files?
[19:00] <hyde> ...or just tick the checkbox to install updated packages during installation, should work right?
[19:00] <rww> RFleming: yes
[19:00] <hyde> john_rambo: there's the usb creator tool in Ubuntu, which should help with that. unetbooting can do it too I presume? At least there are the options
[19:00] <RFleming> rww, thanks :)
[19:02] <john_rambo> Okay
[19:04] <hyde> UNetbootin*
[19:40] <rohan> on kubuntu 14.04, I am unable to choose "Cover switch" as my preferred window switch visualisation. Anyone face the same issue?
[19:47] <Beldar> !14.04 > rohan
[19:47] <rohan> Beldar: ok, not sure what the point of it is
[19:48] <Beldar> rohan, #ubuntu+1 is the 14.04 channel until release, you can read right?
[19:48] <lordievader> rohan: Right I needed to check if OpenGL works again, I'll check if your problem exists here too.
[19:49] <rohan> lordievader: yes, i think it's a problem with opengl.. i read the latest launchpad bugs around it, but it seems my problem is still not fixed
[19:49] <rohan> lordievader: do you have a way of checking it?
[19:49] <Beldar> rohan, sorry not enough caffeine yet my mistake, sorry about that.
[19:49] <rohan> Beldar: sure! :)
[19:49] <Beldar> Doh, ;)
[19:49] <lordievader> Beldar: Happens to the best of us without caffeine ;)
[19:50] <rohan> lordievader: ah actually, removing kwinrc and restarting kde fixed it! (i had to manually choose cover switch as the visual)
[19:50] <lordievader> Few weeks ago OpenGL stopped working on my intel box, don't know why. Perhaps that is fixed since then. And it just might be that the cover switch is related.
[19:50] <lordievader> Ah, good to hear. Well I'm still going to check OpenGL ;)
[19:51] <rohan> lordievader: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1299499
[19:51] <rohan> fixed in latest mesa
[19:52] <rohan> my kwinrc had decided to always use xrender, presumably because opengl was crashing
[19:52] <rohan> with this bug fixed it's now all good, just needed to remove kwinrc
[19:55] <lordievader> Hmm opengl still crashes...
[19:57] <lordievader> Hmm, Xrender now throws an error too.
[20:42] <SorenHolm> Hi
[20:43] <SorenHolm> Are you guys also seeing that libreoffice does not start up properly? UI frozen/undrawn.?
[20:43]  * cce7 updated to today's trusty beta, and my 3-display orientation settings arn't sticking.  Am I missing something?
[21:14] <lolcat> Hello
[21:14] <lolcat> thar boots super slow compared to earlier versions
[21:14] <lolcat> is lvm slow or is it thar?
[21:15] <Beldar> thar?
[21:15] <k1l> i dont think its slow, at least compared to 13.10 on my setup
[21:15] <k1l> but the shutdown is really fast now
[21:15] <Beldar> not slow here either
[21:17] <lolcat> shutdown is okay
[21:17] <lolcat> but turning on is not nearly instant like before
[21:29]  * cce7 wishes I could get it to keep my 3 monitor layout ;)
[22:08] <rohan> lolcat: did you try to find out what is slowing it down?
[22:19] <lolcat> rohan: yes, but not yet
[22:19] <lolcat> I will install the bootthing
[22:19] <jordan__> how long do the daily builds remain hosted? I'm specifically interested in http://cloud-images.ubuntu.com/precise/20140408/
[22:19] <rohan> cce7: while we are wishing, i wish it didn't break my intel card :-[
[22:19] <rohan> lordievader: did you update all packages?
[22:19] <rohan> lordievader: also by error, do you mean it puts stuff in your dmesg?
[22:20] <rohan> lolcat: what boot thing? i'd just press esc to hide the splash and see where it's stuck
[22:21] <lolcat> rohan: ah
[22:29]  * yofel wonders why his xorg.conf goes missing all the time
[22:34] <trism> yofel: somebody was complaining about that a few days ago with fglrx I think, but I can't find the bug now, I do see bug 1293789 for nvidia
[22:35] <yofel> trism: thanks, that does look like what's happening here
[22:37] <trism> ahh it was bug 1302771
[22:37] <trism> don't really think that is an accurate description of what's happening though
[22:39] <basketball> my bug #1303230 is still undecided
[22:47] <akiva> which kernel will 14.04 be using? I want to know to help me decide whether I should use btrfs or ext4
[22:47] <akiva> I have an ssd, and read performance is the most important thing to me
[22:48] <akiva> or is it possible to install with f2fs?
[22:52] <Ben64> !info linux-generic | akiva
[23:05] <micdawg> Hello!
[23:06] <micdawg> Pretty sure I had a 14.04 update go south.
[23:06] <Beldar> Can you be more detailed?
[23:06] <micdawg> kernel panic saying It can't find root disk on bootup, so I'm booting off of the .18 kernel, and google says that's because the initramfs is corrupt, so I need to run update-initramfs
[23:07] <micdawg> sec
[23:07] <micdawg> sudo update-initramfs -u -k 3.11.0-19-generic update-initramfs: Generating /boot/initrd.img-3.11.0-19-generic Floating point exception (core dumped)
[23:07] <micdawg> and...
[23:07] <micdawg> Sorry, command-not-found has crashed! Please file a bug report at: https://bugs.launchpad.net/command-not-found/+filebug Please include the following information with the report:  command-not-found version: 0.3 Python version: 3.3.2 final 0 Distributor ID: Ubuntu Description:    Ubuntu Trusty Tahr (development branch) Release:        14.04 Codename:       trusty Exception information:  unsupported locale setting Traceback (most re
[23:08] <micdawg> if I run a apt-get update, I get....
[23:08] <micdawg> perl: warning: Setting locale failed. perl: warning: Please check that your locale settings:         LANGUAGE = (unset),         LC_ALL = (unset),         LANG = "en_US.UTF-8"     are supported and installed on your system. perl: warning: Falling back to the standard locale ("C"). E: dpkg was interrupted, you must manually run 'sudo dpkg --configure -a' to correct the problem.
[23:08] <micdawg> and if I run that dpkg --configure -a, I get a kernel panic :)
[23:09] <micdawg> everything showed successful until it rebooted and got the first kernel panic on the .19 kernel
[23:10] <micdawg> this is ubuntu server btw, update from 13.10 to 14.04
[23:21] <holstein> micdawg: looks like you interrupted the update
[23:22] <holstein> sudo dpkg --configure -a causes a kernel panic? have you tried it from the recover console?
[23:23] <micdawg> I haven't tried it from teh recover console no
[23:23] <micdawg> and I actually started it, and left for work :/
[23:24] <micdawg> it was rebooting when I left
[23:24] <micdawg> when I got back it was at the kernel panic
[23:24] <micdawg> so not sure, but I'll try that from teh recovery console
[23:24] <micdawg> thank you!
[23:47] <MarcN> Can someone check to see  what version of f-spot is in Trusty?
[23:47] <rww> !info fspot trusty
[23:47] <rww> !info f-spot trusty
[23:49] <MarcN> rww, thanks.  Same as in Saucy...
[23:50] <MarcN> I have 130k photos in f-spot and it has been getting a bit crashy over the years.
[23:50] <rww> MarcN: It's in universe, so we probably just go with whatever Debian has.
[23:50] <rww> !info f-spot sid
[23:50] <rww> !info f-spot unstable
[23:50] <Magiobiwan> Ah. I jumped the gun a little
[23:50] <rww> ayup
[23:51] <Magiobiwan> So, I just upgraded from 13.10 to 14.04 and it broke my br0 setup.
[23:51] <Magiobiwan> Which is defined in /etc/network/interfaces but a "ifup br0" says "Cannot find device "br0"
[23:59] <Magiobiwan> There. Just had to "brctl addbr br0"


[01:44]  * thumper watches the tumbleweed roll past
[01:49] <axw> it is rather quiet
[01:49] <axw> wallyworld_: LP just crapped out on an email notification; I've LGTM'd your two simplestreams branches
[01:49] <wallyworld_> axw: awsome thanks :-)
[01:50] <wallyworld_> i'm finishing another soon then i'll poke the landing bot
[02:04] <wallyworld_> axw: with the location of the interfaces in interfaces.go - I prefer them to be in separate files like you suggest, but others on the project want all the interfaces declared in one big file :-(
[02:04] <axw> wallyworld_: my comment is more about the package location than the file
[02:05] <axw> if something other than an Environ is to implement HasConfig, then it probably shouldn't be in environs
[02:05] <wallyworld_> same thing in a way - i would want to define the HasConfig interface in environs.config, but other times got pushback from stuff like that
[02:06] <wallyworld_> HasConfig returns a environs.config.Config
[02:06] <axw> yeah, that's why I thought it would be better there
[02:06] <wallyworld_> me too
[02:07] <axw> your call - just letting you know what I think :)
[02:07] <wallyworld_> but for some reason, people don't like cohesion and loose coupling :-(
[02:07] <axw> lol
[02:07] <wallyworld_> i agree with you fwiw, i just knew the pushback i'd get
[02:08] <wallyworld_> i figured i'd have enough to argue about wrt the interface names :-)
[02:08] <axw> hehe
[02:09] <axw> why'd the standup change time?
[02:15] <wallyworld_> axw: cause if conflicted with breakfast time for nate
[02:15] <axw> ah
[03:10] <bigjools> I have a juju debug log writing to my terminal, yet I have no actual debug-log running in it ...
[03:10] <bigjools> wtf
[03:12] <axw> wallyworld_: Path isn't meant to be relative?
[03:12] <wallyworld_> axw: it is in the metadata, but when used, a full url is required
[03:13] <wallyworld_> cause the tools can then be retrieved via wget
[03:13] <axw> mmk. just slightly confusing that ToolsMetadata.Path has different forms based on whether it's input/output
[03:13] <wallyworld_> if you are looking at a mp i just posted, i'm fixing a few other things
[03:14] <axw> yeah I am
[03:14] <wallyworld_> i can add a new attr
[03:14] <wallyworld_> Path is only used internally
[03:14] <wallyworld_> outside of simplestreams, the Tools struct is used
[03:15] <axw> I'll keep looking, it's probably okay if it doesn't escape
[03:17] <wallyworld_> i probably should add an absolute path for clarity, even if it is internal only
[03:20] <axw> wallyworld_: yeah, I think I'd prefer adding either a BaseURL or URL field
[03:21] <wallyworld_> can do if it aids clarity
[04:12] <bigjools> is the only was to pass config to a charm initial deployment via the --config directive?
[04:12] <bigjools> s/was/way/
[04:20] <wallyworld_> nfi
[04:21] <wallyworld_> bigjools: where does maas and azure keep a copy of the tool tarballs? or are they just downloaded from the shared s3 bucket?
[04:21] <bigjools> haha
[04:22] <bigjools> there's a public storage account for azure that only I know how to upload to
[04:22] <wallyworld_> which wget works with?
[04:22] <bigjools> yes
[04:22] <bigjools> maas doesn't have public tools AFAIK
[04:22] <wallyworld_> so s3?
[04:22] <bigjools> since it's not a public cloud
[04:22] <wallyworld_> or --upload-tools
[04:22] <bigjools> NFI whatever juju does
[04:23] <wallyworld_> s3 then, unless upload-tools is used
[04:23] <bigjools> I normally use --upload-tools
[04:24] <wallyworld_> bigjools:  does maas provider support unuathenticated access to files in its storage using the Storage.URL() method?
[04:24] <bigjools> it used to but not any more
[04:24] <wallyworld_> yes, looks like it
[04:24] <wallyworld_> oh?
[04:24] <wallyworld_> code seems to be there
[04:24] <bigjools> it's a security hole
[04:25] <bigjools> I think we still need to fix it :)
[04:25] <wallyworld_> hmmm. amazon supports it
[04:25] <bigjools> maas is not amazon
[04:26] <bigjools> maas has a backward compatibility mode for unauth access IIRC
[04:26] <bigjools> jtv1: can you remember the details for this?
[04:26]  * wallyworld_ is sad that our key interfaces that all providers are supposed to implement are not universally supported
[04:26] <wallyworld_> which means interface design is wrong
[04:27] <bigjools> yeah
[04:27] <bigjools> very hard to get right though
[04:27] <jtv1> bigjools: for storage?  Do you mean the anon URLs?
[04:27] <bigjools> jtv1: yes
[04:28] <jtv1> Oh, and we had the weirdness with the transition between single-tenant and multi-tenant storage, didn't we?
[04:28] <bigjools> jtv1: I recall that rvb stuffed in some egregious hack
[04:28] <bigjools> yes exactly that
[04:28]  * jtv looks
[04:30] <jtv> There's FileStorage.anon_resource_uri...  it evaluates to a URL where the file can be retrieved anonymously.  To keep the file secret, keep the URL secret.
[04:30] <wallyworld_> but that is deprecated?
[04:31] <jtv> Doesn't say so in the source...
[04:31] <wallyworld_> bigjools seemed to think it may be going away?
[04:31] <jtv> Key-based access.  That was the way we dealt with this.  You pass the file's key to get its anonymous URL.
[04:32] <jtv> There were two related issues.  One was legacy files from the single-tenant era, which have no owner.  The other is anonymous access.
[04:32] <jtv> Ownerless files should go away.  I don't know if we'll ever fully be rid of the code, but we should at least keep up the pretense.
[04:33] <wallyworld_> sounds like i shouldn't count on anon access
[04:33] <jtv> Key-based anonymous access was meant to last, as I remember it.
[04:35] <wallyworld_> ok
[04:36] <bigjools> I think this hack was put in to make juju work
[04:36] <bigjools> if memory serves (which it doesn't much these days)
[04:37] <bigjools> thumper: if I want to pass a chunk of data to a charm, what's the best way?
[04:37] <bigjools> a huge ugly piece of yaml?
[04:37]  * thumper shrugs
[04:37] <thumper> how about base64 encoded bson?
[04:38]  * thumper ducks
[04:38] <bigjools> well it's an ssh private key so it's already encoded
[04:38] <thumper> in all honesty though, NFI
[04:38] <bigjools> but it's just unwieldy in a charm config
[04:38] <bigjools> I was hoping there might be a config that says "throw the contents of this file at the charm"
[04:39] <thumper> sometimes I'm amazed at peoples ability to accept so much boilerplate and copy and paste in tests
[04:39]  * thumper refactors
[04:39] <bigjools> :(
[04:40]  * thumper headdesks
[04:40] <thumper> it is worse than I thought
[04:40]  * thumper umms
[04:40] <thumper> to fix it all now, or to make others do it...
[04:41] <thumper> fuck it
[04:41]  * thumper fixes
[04:41]  * thumper chooses appropriate music
[04:41] <bigjools> Ugly Kid Joe? :)
[04:41] <thumper> Device will do
[04:41] <thumper> heh first track is "You Think You Know"
[04:41] <thumper> second is "Penance" followed by "Vilify"
[04:44]  * bigjools discovers multiline config in yaml
[04:47] <wallyworld_> thumper: it's not just tests - the !#^^!@! boilerplate is everywhere. it seems to be the Go way :-(
[04:48] <jtv> Not just Go.  We used to do it in Launchpad as well.  I think cultural isolation has also been contributing to the repetition of mistakes.
[04:49] <jtv> Although Go _is_ the first language where I've seen "we'd rather repeat code to minimize dependencies" stated as policy.
[04:52] <wallyworld_> yep :-(
[04:54] <bigjools> so thumper, I can't ctrl-c out of juju debug-log
[04:54] <bigjools> nor, worryingly, ctrl-z
[04:54] <bigjools> vartdafark?
[04:55] <jtv> Isn't that the "suspend" signal?
[04:55] <bigjools> yes
[04:55] <bigjools> I very rarely see it fail to suspend a shell job
[04:55] <jtv> Quite.
[04:56] <bigjools> only special things like ssh catch it and redirect
[04:56]  * bigjools files a bug
[04:59]  * thumper sighs
[04:59] <thumper> bigjools: I ctrl-C'ed out of debug-log before
[05:00] <bigjools> it's consistent for me
[05:00] <bigjools> each new env
[05:02] <thumper> I've got a brain dead review for someone
[05:02] <jtv> I'll take it.
[05:02] <jtv> Appropriately.,
[05:02]  * thumper is waiting on damn lbox
[05:02] <jtv> It's already on Launchpad.
[05:02] <thumper> so many of these songs are appropriate for hacking/refactoring
[05:02] <thumper> War of Lies
[05:02] <thumper> Opinion
[05:03] <thumper> Haze
[05:03] <thumper> Through it all
[05:03] <thumper> Out of Line
[05:03] <thumper> ah fark... still waiting
[05:03]  * thumper twiddles thumbs
[05:04]  * thumper hands jtv the lp review
[05:04] <thumper> https://code.launchpad.net/~thumper/juju-core/open-api-as-new-machine/+merge/184012
[05:04] <thumper> \
[05:04] <thumper> lbox still isn't done
[05:05] <jtv> Argh.  Somebody has to stop this "while we're here, let's change the gocheck import" insanity.
[05:05] <thumper> sorry
[05:05] <thumper> eventually it'll all be done
[05:06] <jtv> Not at this rate.  Birthday paradox.
[05:06] <thumper> we aren't adding more
[05:06] <thumper> so eventually we'll fix it
[05:06] <thumper> oh reitveld is finally done
[05:06] <jtv> A new change will come along before it's done.
[05:06]  * thumper ignores it
[05:08] <thumper> jtv: I was busy copying tests, as you do, and I saw this setup step. I thought "hey I'd like to use that, I'll factor it out"
[05:08] <thumper> then I saw the function in the ConnTestSuite
[05:08] <thumper> and thought who is using that
[05:08] <thumper> low and behold, lots of duplicate code
[05:08] <jtv> thumper: what does "creates a new machine in state" mean?
[05:08] <thumper> so create a function that does what you actually care about
[05:09] <thumper> state is the "state of the system" duh, obvious isn't it?
[05:09] <thumper> that was the answer I got when I first asked
[05:09] <thumper> and since the package and main variable is called state
[05:09] <jtv> I see the duplication in the diff...  awesome.  You get the coveted Negative Lines Of Code productivity rating.
[05:09] <thumper> I'm passing it on
[05:10] <thumper> 10 files changed, 58 insertions(+), 134 deletions(-)
[05:10] <jtv> So... we don't know what it means and nobody will explain?
[05:10] <thumper> I can explain
[05:10] <thumper> adding a machine to state is like adding a machine row in a db table
[05:10] <thumper> except we don't have tables
[05:10] <thumper> or a row in the machine table
[05:11] <thumper> but we aren't using a relational database for our relational data
[05:11] <thumper> because mongo has legs
[05:11] <jtv> So "create a machine in state" is not the same as "create a machine that lies in state"?
[05:11]  * thumper leaves off the sarcasterisc
[05:11] <thumper> the whole codebase lies
[05:11] <thumper> but that isn't what you mean
[05:11] <jtv> I don't know what I mean any more.  :)
[05:12] <thumper> I'd rather say "lives in state"
[05:12] <thumper> you ok with that?
[05:12] <jtv> But if "state" is the global, general, universal state of everything, why bother saying it in the first place?
[05:12] <thumper> / OpenAPIAsNewMachine creates a new machine entry that lives in system state, and
[05:12] <thumper> / then uses that to open the API.
[05:13] <thumper> could just say "create a new machine and use that..."
[05:13] <jtv> Definitely clearer.
[05:13] <jtv> Either is fine by me.
[05:13] <thumper> do you perfer more verbose
[05:13] <thumper> I'll leave it with what I have
[05:14] <thumper> new revision pushed
[05:14] <thumper> jtv: and the diff will update automagically \o/
[05:14] <jtv> "s.st"...  the thing about cratily si ahtt si't leasiy ostl.
[05:14]  * thumper agrees
[05:14] <thumper> I HATE it
[05:14] <thumper> and if I could you bold, 24 point, I would
[05:15] <thumper> using psychologically damaging RED
[05:15]  * jtv starts looking for the Health & Safety manual
[05:15]  * thumper waits for jtv to click approve
[05:16] <jtv> Mind if I just review the Launchpad proposal?
[05:16] <thumper> not at all
[05:18] <jtv> Done.
[05:18] <thumper> thanks
[05:18]  * thumper ducks out for a while
[05:18] <jtv> For the maas & azure providers, I just went in and applied the new import rules throughout.  Not a lot of work, and then it's over with.
[05:35] <bigjools> is there any way I can force a service to re-install so I can debug its install hook?
[05:39] <jpds> bigjools: juju resolved --retry service
[05:40] <bigjools> aha
[05:40] <bigjools> thanks
[05:40] <bigjools> jpds: error: unit "tarmac/0" is not in an error state
[05:41] <jpds> bigjools: Ah, so; destroy-service and redeploy ?
[05:41] <bigjools> jpds: won't the debug hook disconnect?
[05:42] <jpds> I would debug-log at that point.
[05:42] <bigjools> it's a bit of a race getting that in place before the install hook runs and I lose
[05:42] <bigjools> yes, I am going to have to debug-log :(
[05:42] <bigjools> or perhaps force an error so I can use resolved
[05:42] <jpds> bigjools: juju ssh into the box, and look at the log in /var/log/juju/ ?
[05:43] <bigjools> yeah I am doing that but I need to work out why a command isn't doing what I expect
[05:44] <jpds> One thing I can think of its juju add-machine; wait for the agent to come up then deploy --to=machine.
[05:44] <bigjools> could work
[05:44] <bigjools> but debug-hooks needs a service unit which is not there yet
[05:52] <bigjools> jpds: ah that worked!
[06:02] <jpds> bigjools: Brilliant.
[06:20] <bradm> is it a bad idea to try opening and closing ports in a juju charm by calling /usr/bin/close-port or /usr/bin/open-port ?  that means you need juju installed on the units, right?
[06:39] <wallyworld_> bradm: i don't know, but i'll ask later when some more people come online and find out
[06:41] <bradm> wallyworld_: pretty sure the problem is that squid-reverseproxy is hard coded to call /usr/bin/close-port, when its moved into  /var/lib/juju/tools somewhere
[06:41] <wallyworld_> yeah i thought close-port was py-juju, but not sure
[06:42] <bradm> /var/lib/juju/tools/1.13.3-precise-amd64/close-port exists on the node
[06:42] <bradm> so I'm guessing removing the path might help
[06:42] <wallyworld_> on the units, jujud is installed automatically, via the tools tarball
[06:42] <wallyworld_> that path above indicates it's symlinked to jujud
[06:42] <wallyworld_> and comes from the tools tarball
[06:43] <bradm> oh, interesting
[07:11] <bradm> ok, I submitted a fix for the squid-reverseproxy thing, its a really trivial patch
[07:11] <bigjools> damn, this juju stuff works!
[07:54] <wallyworld_> fwereade: i'd love a design chat, maybe in an hour or so after dinner?
[07:56] <fwereade> wallyworld_, sgtm
[07:56] <fwereade> wallyworld_, I'm actually doing your review now fwiw
[07:56] <fwereade> wallyworld_, sorry for the delay
[08:01] <wallyworld_> fwereade: np. i want to move the new interfaces. the HasConfig one to environ.config. The other oe elsewhere
[08:02] <wallyworld_> i only put them in environs/interfaces.go because that was a stated preference but one i do't agree with
[09:06] <mattyw> is someone able to anwer a quick api question? When I send the json to deploy a service with CharmURL: cs:precise/wordpress I get the error "charm url must include revision". What's the correct way of getting it to deploy the latest version of a charm? I thought you used to be able to do that?
[09:08] <dimitern> mattyw: this sounds like a bug in the api deploy command
[09:09] <mattyw> dimitern, there's code in client/client.go:135 to do it
[09:09]  * dimitern is looking
[09:11] <dimitern> mattyw: well, by definition rev == -1 means "latest"
[09:11] <dimitern> mattyw: and it's the default if not set I think
[09:12] <mattyw> dimitern, looking at parseURL it looks like the default is -1 yeah
[09:12] <mattyw> dimitern, shall I file a bug?
[09:14] <dimitern> mattyw: actually looking at the commit log, this changed in rev 1262 by fwereade
[09:15] <fwereade> damn, what did I do?
[09:15] <dimitern> mattyw: there's an explicit test for "cs:precise/wordpress" -> "must include revision"
[09:15] <fwereade> dimitern, mattyw: ah right
[09:15] <fwereade> dimitern, mattyw: the GUI already has access to the charm store, and the charm store will tell you the latest revision of a given charm
[09:16] <dimitern> fwereade: I knew there was more to it :)
[09:16] <fwereade> dimitern, mattyw: and in fact the gui is necessarily using a particular version, with a specific readme, and specific config settings and metadata
[09:17] <fwereade> dimitern, mattyw: so my position is that the gui should be knowably deploying exactly that version, rather than opening ourselves up to rare and surprising confusion in which you deploy charm X with config Y and are told that it doesn't actually work
[09:17] <fwereade> mattyw, does this break something you need?
[09:18] <mattyw> fwereade, dimitern ok understood, but doesn't make the api harder to use if you aren't the gui?
[09:18] <mattyw> fwereade, nothing important, I'm just playing with a few side projects
[09:18] <mattyw> fwereade, I was playing with writing a client in elixir
[09:18] <wallyworld_> fwereade: are you free for a quick chat?
[09:20] <fwereade> mattyw, sorry for the inconvenience -- hopefully the charm store api is itself not too painful to use, though?
[09:20] <mattyw> fwereade, it's no problem at all! :). where can I find the charm store api?
[09:21] <dimitern> fwereade: there it is https://codereview.appspot.com/13559043 - RUW completed
[09:21] <fwereade> wallyworld_, yeah, sgtm, but I may eat at you for some of it
[09:21] <fwereade> dimitern, sweet, I'll look as soon as I can
[09:21] <fwereade> mattyw, er, let me look around a mo
[09:21] <wallyworld_> np. https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/ff292c4c07ae7359f6cd87925661e2868636a3bd
[09:23] <wallyworld_> fwereade: ^^^^^  if you are busy we cs\n do it
[09:23] <wallyworld_> betweem the meetings
[09:32] <dimitern> fwereade: btw I tested with debug hooks and the steps you suggested - it all works fine
[09:37] <fwereade> dimitern, <3
[09:38] <fwereade> mattyw, it looks pretty weak, but there's this: https://juju-docs.readthedocs.org/en/latest/internals/charm-store.html#upgrades
[09:38] <fwereade> mattyw, I'm not actually sure what the original source of that was
[09:39] <fwereade> mattyw, presumably the internals/ docs in pyjuju
[09:39] <fwereade> mattyw, but it should still be accurate, because it's talking about the exact same charm store
[09:39] <fwereade> mattyw, it's pretty narrow but it *will* tell you the latest versions :)
[09:40] <mattyw> fwereade, ok thanks, I'll have a play around and see what I can come up with, thanks a lot for your help
[09:41] <fwereade> mattyw, cheers, always a pleasure
[09:41] <fwereade> mmm, leftover pistachio pizza
[09:49] <dimitern> :)
[10:02] <thumper> mgz: meeting ping
[10:13] <dimitern> fwereade: so how about that review?
[10:14] <fwereade> dimitern, better finish ian's first
[10:14] <dimitern> fwereade: ah, ok
[10:14] <natefinch> so, is manual provider available in trunk now?  I thought I saw something about that
[10:18] <mgz> it's on trunk, but needs some more work, see the thread in response to the last release announcement
[10:35] <yolanda> hi, i need to send static contents like images on a charm, is that possible in some way?
[10:36] <mgz> yolanda: yes, more details on exactly what? base64 and yaml into config or a relation works fine, for instance
[10:37] <yolanda> mgz, i have a gerrit charm and i'd like to have some way to configure look&feel
[10:37] <yolanda> it includes sending html and css files, but also some images if needed
[10:37] <yolanda> such as a canonical logo or whatever
[10:45] <yolanda> mgz, i used that to send some contents but not sure if that will work for a list of images, we need to upload image content and image name
[10:49] <mgz> yolanda: it could work, but may be rather ugly (eg, list of key-value path/base64 contents would be fine)
[10:50] <mgz> I wonder if other charms have similar use cases, and what they've done? for instance I know jenkins and horizon allow of front end customisation
[10:50] <yolanda>  mgz, i'll take a look at those then
[10:51] <mgz> yolanda: maybe look at one of those, or poke james or adam for suggestions?
[10:51] <yolanda> mgz, i'm sending some values to charm with base64 encoding, but for a defined field, not a list, so looked ugly to me
[11:03] <fwereade> yolanda, mgz: sending a readable reference to a place to get the files would be rather nicer, really
[11:04] <fwereade> yolanda, mgz: ideally humans looking at how you've configured your charm ought to be able to derive some sort of meaning from it directly
[11:05] <dimitern> fwereade: so i saw ian's review's done :)
[11:05] <fwereade> dimitern, yeah, a meeting is happening... I will try to multitask it :)
[11:06] <yolanda> fwereade, so what do you suggest, maybe point to some directory where to upload all the images?
[11:06] <mgz> fwereade: where though? we don't really give charms access points into filestore, or provide tools to stick stuff in there
[11:07] <fwereade> yolanda, mgz: IIRC wordpress lets you set a repo url for that sort of thing
[11:07] <fwereade> yolanda, mgz: it is true we don't provide tools to help directly
[11:07] <dimitern> fwereade: thanks, no rush, just poking
[11:07] <mgz> hm, I guess a seperate versioned branch does make some sense
[11:30] <yolanda> mgz, fwereade, i really like the wordpress approach, but what do you do in case of deployments that don't allow to get content from external sources? you just first copy it locally?
[11:31] <mgz> yolanda: you'd need a branch that your cloud could access, yeah
[11:31] <yolanda> mgz, so setting that on a launchpad branch sounds good
[11:31] <yolanda> it's a clean approach
[11:33] <mgz> all, are we doing standup today, or just going on to the new time tomorrow?
[11:33] <TheMue> mgz: as i understood jam we'll continue tomorrow with the new time
[11:34] <natefinch> mgz: yeah, my understanding as well
[11:34] <TheMue> mgz: the calendar shows no more standups on thursday with the change of the meeting time
[11:35] <mgz> okay, shall code onwardst then
[13:02] <dimitern> fwereade: still meeting?
[13:02] <fwereade> nah, I'm actually doing your review :)
[13:02] <dimitern> cheers :)
[13:06] <fwereade> dimitern, LGTM
[13:07] <dimitern> fwereade: thanks!
[13:16] <sidnei> uhm, anyone interested in upgrade bugs? im trying to do upgrade-juju from ~<IP_ADDRESS> to ~<IP_ADDRESS> and it's stuck in a restart loop
[13:18]  * TheMue => late lunch
[13:20] <fwereade> sidnei, I'm interested
[13:20] <dimitern> sidnei: are you upgrading from a release to a trunk version?
[13:21] <fwereade> sidnei, are these just your own changes between, or did you merge in as well?
[13:21] <sidnei> dimitern: both are from source, not from release, but the version number differs
[13:22] <dimitern> sidnei: you did go install . in cmd/juju and cmd/jujud before trying --upload-tools, right?
[13:22] <sidnei> dimitern: nope, only go install launchpad.net/juju-core/...
[13:23] <dimitern> sidnei: well, there's that thing - if you use --upload-tools from source, you should always do these two install steps, otherwise you'll get older binaries
[13:23] <dimitern> sidnei: pretending to be newer version
[13:24] <sidnei> dimitern: ok. still didn't solve the issue anyway.
[13:25] <dimitern> sidnei: np, just wanted to make sure that's out of the way
[13:25] <dimitern> sidnei: then it seems there's a bug
[13:26] <sidnei> dimitern, fwereade: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6066470/
[13:30] <fwereade> sidnei, ah, hell, that looks like https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1214676
[13:30] <_mup_> Bug #1214676: upgrade-juju in local environment causes bootstrap machine agent to restart continuously <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1214676>
[13:35] <sidnei> indeed
[13:43] <natefinch> jam, fwereade, etc: You guys have anything they think I should be working on? I'm kinda out of stuff. I could look at bugs, but not sure if there's something more appropriate
[13:43] <fwereade> natefinch, oddly enough, that upgrade that sidnei just pointed out above is a pretty big deal
[13:43] <natefinch> fwereade: I'd be happy to look at it
[13:43] <fwereade> natefinch, I was just thinking "gaah who will look at that"
[13:43] <fwereade> natefinch, <3
[13:45] <mgz> :)
[13:48] <dimitern> fwereade: if I have a suite A that embeds another suite B, do I need to define A.SetUpTest, just so it will call B.SetUpTest ?
[13:49] <dimitern> fwereade: provided that's the only thing A.SetUpTest has to do?
[13:56] <fwereade> dimitern, it *will* but it's prone to accidental screwing-up so we prefer to be explicit
[13:56] <mgz> gah, editor lag meant my change didn't get in that file? why did I not look at the diff again before landing...
[13:57] <dimitern> fwereade: ah, ok - it seems to work both ways, but I too prefer to be explicit
[13:58] <sidnei> fwereade: https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1190985 is another one I'd love if you could prioritize
[13:58] <_mup_> Bug #1190985: Confusing upgrade-charm and deploy -u behavior <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1190985>
[14:03] <fwereade> sidnei, ha, yes, that is an ugly one
[14:12] <dimitern> a quick, trivial review anyone? https://codereview.appspot.com/13561043
[14:12] <mgz> dimitern: can I have a rubber stamp on cl 13562043
[14:12] <mgz> swap you :)
[14:12] <dimitern> mgz: sure
[14:12] <mgz> was typing before you asked :)
[14:13] <dimitern> mgz: stamped! :)
[14:16] <mgz> hm, same // Note in both new files, and some other dup still, but not a bad +484/-434 considering it's much clearer overall
[14:16] <mgz> lgtmed.
[14:19] <dimitern> thanks
[14:19] <dimitern> will fix the note
[14:19] <dimitern> what other dup?
[14:20] <mgz> I think the note is correct, it's just... odd having the same long comment in two different tests in different files
[14:22] <dimitern> ah, the watcher note, yeah
[14:23] <mgz> the dup is mostly just that every action takes three lines
[14:24] <mgz> create something; assert err is nil, assert actual assertion... and several tests have three or more actions before they get to what they actually are about
[14:25] <natefinch> mgz: sounds like we need a checker that takes err, realValue and does that for us
[14:25] <mgz> hm, actually, some of these later tests just create a unit then check the error, and don't also assert Life() is alive
[14:26] <dimitern> well, the unit is alive
[14:26] <dimitern> it's created every time
[14:26] <dimitern> only in refresh and life tests it's explicity asserted over
[14:26] <mgz> right, so maybe that check is actually redundant in the earlier tests (if we get there and the thing isn't alive, we have bigger problems other tests would break on)
[14:29] <fwereade> oh, hell, I have to look at houses again in a few minutes, and it's the cross-team call imminently
[14:29] <mgz> there doesn't seem to be much easy reduction to do though, the tests are just verbose
[14:29] <fwereade> can I deputise someone to attend and let them know what we're up to please?
[14:29] <mgz> fwereade: I could cross-team is there anything particular you wanted to saY?
[14:29] <fwereade> mgz, not really
[14:30] <mgz> have fun looking at houses :)
[14:30] <fwereade> mgz, oh, I am
[14:30] <fwereade> mgz, this week is so much better than normal weeks ;p
[14:31]  * fwereade shouldn't grumble
[14:32] <natefinch> fwereade: if we didn't grumble, how would anyone know we're programmers? :)
[14:34] <fwereade> haha :)
[14:38] <natefinch> am I supposed to be able to SSH into the lxc container with juju ssh 0?  I get connection refused
[14:41] <mgz> natefinch: with lxc, you ssh into the units, not the machines
[14:41] <natefinch> mgz: ahh, ok
[14:42] <natefinch> mgz: I'm guessing this is probably bad: agent-state-info: '(error: container "nate-local-machine-1" is already created)'
[14:43] <mgz> that does seem bad, but you may be able to straight resolve it
[14:43] <natefinch> mgz: I had been diddling with local provider a while back... maybe some  cruft left over
[15:12]  * natefinch is ramping up his lxc-fu
[15:14] <mgz> all the way to lxc-fuuuuu
[15:14] <natefinch> rofl.... exactly
[15:14] <natefinch> I think that's a short ramp
[15:16] <TheMue> natefinch: tell me about your installation experiences so that i can possibly change the docs (if i have)
[15:17] <TheMue> natefinch: here it worked, but we today already have seen troubles with the firewall, so i changed the doc (it's proposed)
[15:17] <natefinch> TheMue: the biggest problem I had was that my go installation was local to my normal account, so when I do sudo juju bootstrap, it couldn't find the go executable
[15:19] <natefinch> (so it could build jujud)
[15:46] <TheMue> natefinch: so, back again, had a talk with robbiew
[15:48] <TheMue> natefinch: yep, doing it as a juju developer is different, the docs are for users on a clean system. but i'll talk to the others about adding a kind of box "local provider for juju contributors"
[16:01] <mgz> TheMue: did robbiew poke you, or did you just join the call?
[16:02] <robbiew> mgz: I'll join..running late
[16:02] <mgz> robbiew: no problem, just wanted to make sure I was in the right place :)
[16:03]  * mgz proposes merge in the meantime
[16:19] <TheMue> mgz: had my 1:1