[05:41] <Chinese_soup> :D
[05:41] <Chinese_soup> good.
[06:55] <SquirrelCZECH> :D
[11:29] <_Bumblebee> Ahoj
[12:37] <Chinese_soup> another one


[06:06] <suodla> Hi wers
[06:08] <wers> hi suodla
[06:08] <wers> how's it going?
[06:09] <suodla> <- dous
[06:09] <suodla> things are going quite well, thanks
[06:09] <suodla> how are you?
[06:09] <suodla> are you in SG now?
[06:09] <wers> wow. how'd you know? lol
[06:10] <suodla> whois info.. :D do you know someone named Ardy?
[06:10] <wers> nope. who's he?
[06:11] <suodla> ah.. maybe he left before you joined mig33
[06:29] <wers> suodla: and how do you know I'm at mig33? haha
[06:29] <wers> ay lol. syempre nasa whois ko nga
[06:29] <suodla> yup
[06:29] <suodla> hehe
[06:36] <epal> panu nio nakuha ung cloak na ubuntu/member/* ? :D
[06:44] <suodla> if you're an ubuntu member, you need to let someone (sorry I can't remember exact name, it's been a while) know and he'll add the cloak for you
[06:50] <epal> malamang may mga requirements noh? like no. of posts or contributions?
[07:19] <suodla> yup.. more info at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership


[02:36] <rich3krow> hi, upstartians.  Has the subject of addressing the rpm package "initscripts" cropped up somewhere?  I'd be happy to have a pointer to it.
[02:36] <rich3krow> or the subject of upstart on say fedora core 5?
[02:47] <Md> I do not remember reading anything about upstart and RPM-based distributions
[02:47] <Md> except that so far the red hat people are still looking at upstart and waiting to see if it will be adopted by others or crash and burn
[02:48] <rich3krow> I expect a lot of people are doing that.
[02:50] <rich3krow> What would be great is to have a parallel implementation so one could choose to do either.  Say, "init 7" or "init 8" or "init 9" would be the upstart equivalent of inits 1, 3, and 5
[02:50] <rich3krow> i believe [789]  are unused
[02:51] <rich3krow> much like if your kernel crashes, grub will let you use a former kernel, replete with its modules
[02:52] <rich3krow> well, i really need to read an in-depth doc and/or implementation, guess I should (1) d/l 6.10 of Ubuntu (I saw my first Ubuntu billboard Sunday!  Going north on 101 toward SF) and (2) inspect if
[02:52] <rich3krow> it
[06:09] <Luna-Tick> Hello all. I'm looking at my bootchart and seem to have 2 x 5secs where the processor and disk do absolutely nothing. It seems that this could be to do with fsck. A copy of my bootchart can be found here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam/DellInspiron510m?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=bootchart-edgy-20060920-7.png
[06:10] <Luna-Tick> I'm running Edgy Beta
[09:56] <Keybuk> good morning
[11:02] <uhmmm> so.. is this upstart likely to change our linux lives?
[11:04] <Keybuk> upstart is like a change of toothpaste
[11:04] <Keybuk> the benefit is feeling fresher throughout the day
[11:04] <uhmmm> great answer
[11:05] <uhmmm> now I know what to expect from it
[11:05] <Keybuk> heh, could you be more specific with your question?
[11:06] <Keybuk> it's sufficiently broad that it's difficult to answer
[11:07] <Keybuk> the change for users are that their system is a little more flexible to their needs
[11:07] <Keybuk> the change for developers is that it's much easier to make the system more flexible
[02:14] <gebi> hi all :)
[02:37] <gebi> i've a question regarding upstart, whats the intended mechanism in upstart to preserve starting services
[02:37] <_ion> Preserve?
[02:37] <gebi> e.g just because a server has a graka i don't won't the x server to be started
[02:37] <gebi> haven't read about that in the upstart doku
[02:38] <gebi> _ion: on preserve is wrong, 'keep from starting' would be better, sorry
[02:40] <_ion> 1) Don't install X to a server, 2) i proposed a "disabled" stanza to the job description syntax, but i think Keybuk has something better in mind.
[02:41] <gebi> hmm...
[02:43] <gebi> disable in the job description would really be suboptimal, just look at the (imho) mess with /etc/defaults/<service> (disable=yes) and such things
[02:45] <gebi> _ion: would upstart support different "profiles"? (where profiles mean something like a runleve)
[02:46] <gebi> suppose a user only want consolen login, or console + network access, but no daemons started (or only gpm and things needed to work with console) and ssh
[03:13] <Keybuk> these are all things we're still designing
[03:13] <Keybuk> what do you think would work best?
[03:22] <gebi> thats a bit complicated in a event based system imho, because what if a user is in "consolen mode" but now want to start into "graphic mode" (without reloading the graphic card modules)
[03:26] <gebi> idea: every so called profile consists of a file with event filters, if an event gets filtered by the rules of the profile it is saved by upstart und replayed if the user decided to switch to another profile (same for the new profile, if the event is also filtered in the new profile it is saved again)
[03:29] <gebi> but this aproach needs strict definitions which events are supposed do what, and imho also something like virtual events
[03:29] <_ion> What is a virtual event?'
[03:31] <gebi> e.g network daemons, pretty any network daemon has the same requirements (the network should be present and useable + maybe a loaded firewall), so to repetly define all such things is waste of time and divert the system because a few scripts won't get it right
[03:32] <gebi> a virtual event would something like: daemons-up which depends on a network card beeing useable + firewall loaded, this is the main event every daemon should depend on
[03:34] <gebi> the main point, for event filters to be usefull in this case you need one event every daemon depends on
[03:42] <gebi> another "problem" where the event based system simply doesn't work (imho) is if the user want's to start a specific daemon, upstart needs to figure out the right dependencies and if they are not satisfied needs to print why exactly the daemon can't be started
[03:45] <Keybuk> job "dependencies" are an interesting exercise
[03:45] <Keybuk> do you just depend on another job
[03:45] <Keybuk> or should you be able to say "apache can't start until a network card is up"
[03:47] <gebi> the second one, solaris is the best example in this respect (imho)
[03:51] <gebi> it might be possibel to use events as dependencies but this needs a more formal description on what type of events and what arguments a service depends (and no coding of this dependencies into a code section)
[09:07] <rich3krow> "Apache can't start until a network card is up"  but but but
[09:07] <rich3krow> what if I only want to use apache for local web development and I only want to use <IP_ADDRESS>?
[09:08] <rich3krow> Oh, Keybuk has gone to bed
[09:10] <_ion> That's just a matter of configuration.
[09:11] <_ion> In that case the network interface you want apache to wait for would be 'lo'. :-)
[09:12] <rich3krow> hm, I don't even know how lo is brought up, I should dig a little.
[11:59] <rich3krow> Well, ok, lo comes up in the same way any interface comes up.  In the redhat scheme /etc/initd/network looks through files /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts, and ifcfg-lo is one of them, and it has ONBOOT=yes


[01:14] <Spreadsheet> Are there any proposals to "split" the main #ubuntu channel so that there are less people per channel and help is more efficient? Such as having #ubuntu-1, #ubuntu-2, and so on.
[01:20] <elky> Spreadsheet, there have been various proposals saying we should, but no real way to do it that would guarantee an even spread of helpers, or the right helper in the right channel at the right time.
[01:21] <Spreadsheet> I think we can have a "main" channel where people needing help find a helper. And then they take the discussion to a sub-channel
[01:21] <elky> i think that would become unmanagable
[01:23] <Seeker`> that proposal has been made several times before
[01:23] <Seeker`> it takes the attention of people who know what they are doing away from the main channel
[01:23] <Seeker`> which means that new people joining would be ignored until the other problems are solved
[01:24] <Seeker`> if you have fixed #ubuntu-1, -2, -3, etc. etc. then it becomes impossible to make sure you have an even spread of people capable of helping across each channel
[01:24] <Seeker`> unless you create a staff of people with fixed shifts etc.
[01:24] <nalioth> Spreadsheet: do you ignore channels like #ubuntu-us-tx (or wherever you're from) ?
[01:24] <Seeker`> which isn't really feasible
[01:24] <Spreadsheet> I see what's wrong with the proposal
[01:25] <Spreadsheet> I don't usually join those channels
[01:25] <elky> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+bug/392799 is where it's been discussed before
[01:25] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 392799 in ubuntu-community "#ubuntu too noisy to be useful" [Medium,Confirmed]
[01:25] <ubot4> Ubuntu bug 392799 in ubuntu-community "#ubuntu too noisy to be useful" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/392799
[01:25] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 392799 in ubuntu-community "#ubuntu too noisy to be useful" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/392799
[01:25]  * niko look at flood
[01:26]  * elky gets out the bot repellant
[01:26] <Seeker`> there isn't a nice way to support 1500 users in live chat. What we have is the best option so far. other solutions may solve some problems, but they introduce others, and usually majorly increase the admin overhead
[01:35] <Spreadsheet> Bye
[02:04] <JanC> I think more topic-specific channels might be useful
[02:05] <JanC> especially on topics that have a lot of known issues  ;)
[02:05]  * niko don't want to count offtopic discussion in such channel
[02:06] <JanC> people will always do that, but in smaller channels that causes less harm than in #ubuntu as it is  ;)
[02:07] <JanC> the problem is, currently in #ubuntu you can't help people without being focused on it permanently
[02:07] <niko> but how an user knows in which channels he have to go ? :/ ?
[02:08] <niko> mainly a beginner
[02:08] <JanC> people can point them to the right channel, plus channel names should help
[02:09] <niko> i don't think that solve the problem
[02:10] <JanC> it won't solve all problems, but it works reasonably for the topics/teams that already have such a channel  ;)
[02:10] <m4v> well, there's #ubuntu-meta
[03:06] <ubot2> In ubot2, ctcd1 said: error: this initrd is too big la gi vay?
[16:37] <erUSUL> anyone? pooper in #ubuntu
[16:37] <erUSUL> nvm Pici is there
[18:05] <jussi01_> erUSUL: #ubuntu-ops for #ubuntu stuff ;)
[18:10] <m4v> jussi01_, did the council got our emails about u-es? do we have to wait until the elections are over for a reply?
[18:12] <jussi01_> m4v: given we have only 2 council members atm, Id say that would be the case.
[18:23] <Pricey> m4v: have you been in touch with the founder since?
[18:23] <m4v> I have not seen the founder since he removed me
[18:25] <nalioth> which is the norm, sadly
[18:30] <m4v> the norm? you mean p3l|c4n0 never available?
[18:30] <m4v> I'm probably the only one that talked with him "recently"
[18:36] <m4v> which I don't like to do, he just treated me like I'm some new dude trying to get op in his channel and that I haven't worked hard enough for it
[23:10] <Pilif12p> Hi all. Is The Floodbot open source?
[23:10] <Pilif12p> and if so, where can i get the source?
[23:10] <LjL> almost, but not quite yet.
[23:10] <niko> Pilif12p: probably in some weeks/months
[23:10] <Pilif12p> Ah.
[23:10] <niko> but LjL can tell you more, as he wrote them :)
[23:11] <Pilif12p> oh
[23:11] <Pilif12p> cool
[23:11] <LjL> i've said what i had to say :P
[23:11] <Pilif12p> LjL: Is the source on the SVN or anything?
[23:11] <LjL> no, it's just not available at the moment
[23:11] <Pilif12p> ok.
[23:12] <erUSUL> LjL: easier question is written python like supybot ?
[23:12] <LjL> no. php.
[23:12] <Pici> ahaha
[23:12] <LjL> Pici: shush
[23:12] <m4v> php?
[23:12] <Pici> They both begin with a p!
[23:12] <LjL> like in pee, aitch, pee, yes.
[23:12] <Pilif12p> I'm just looking for a flood control bot, because on Moznet, their bot is not as good as Floodbot... It just kicks people, and the name isn't very nice. The name is "killer"
[23:13] <LjL> eh, the name is easily changed, surely...
[23:13] <Pilif12p> Nope. Its chanserv with a different name.
[23:13] <niko> Pilif12p: if you want a supybot plugin about that
[23:13] <LjL> the floodbots are not at all easy to set up, though, because they are a very ugly piece of code that's mostly custom-written for #ubuntu
[23:13] <niko> i have one
[23:13] <Pilif12p> Oh
[23:14] <Pilif12p> niko: Will it run in linux?
[23:14] <niko> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-fr/ubuntu-bots/ubotufr/files/head%3A/ChannelManager/
[23:14] <niko> Pilif12p: it's a supybot plugin
[23:14] <Pilif12p> Okay
[23:14] <m4v> oh no! no more clones of ubotu-fr! D:
[23:14] <Pilif12p> And, what's ubot based on?
[23:15] <Pilif12p> ubotu
[23:15] <tsimpson> 2 t's
[23:15] <m4v> its supybot with custom plugins
[23:15] <Pilif12p> Oh
[23:15] <tsimpson> all ubottu is, is supybot + plugins
[23:16] <Pilif12p> oh
[23:16] <Pilif12p> I was running a Mozbot earlier, but it broke and got hacked
[23:17] <Pilif12p> i decided to shut it down, because it could flood channels easily...
[23:17] <Pilif12p> Anyway, thanks
[23:18] <niko> Pilif12p: if you need help about plugin config, feel free to query me
[23:18] <Pilif12p> k
[23:20] <Pilif12p> does ubuntu come with python?
[23:21] <m4v> yes
[23:21] <Pilif12p> okay.


[09:13] <GortiZ> Hi to all, I need an help to decide on which package I should submit a bug.
[09:13] <GortiZ> the bug is 1242321
[09:14] <GortiZ> on dmesg it seems that the usb is having trouble, but I couldn't decide if it should belong to linux-image-generic or to udev (i guess linux-image-generic)
[09:26] <jibel> GortiZ, it sounds like a driver issue, so 'linux' would be appropriate. But unless you're certain it is exactly the same hardware it is better to report a new bug with 'ubuntu-bug linux'
[09:27] <jibel> GortiZ, for reference: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/Bugs
[09:28] <GortiZ> jibel: mhmm I'm quite sure it's not the same hardware, I'll check with the other guy and in case report a new bug. Thanks for the support!
[09:28] <jibel> your're welcome
[11:32] <warren-hill> bug with my huawei EC1260-2 modem -- What package should it be reported against?
[17:54] <wagafo> Can anybody mark bug 1282299 as Triaged, if you agree?
[17:54] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1282299 in rhythmbox (Ubuntu) "Rhythmbox not added to indicator-sound menu" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1282299
[18:04] <hggdh> wafago: done