[01:07] <ideopathic> i'm trying to get a PXEServer going on 16.04.  I've seen various instructions out there,
[01:08] <ideopathic> but i have not been able to get the machines to boot.  Getting the error "A bootable device has not been detected"
[01:27] <drab> ideopathic: what steps have you followed?
[01:27] <drab> a bootable device has not been detected just means that the network boot has failed
[01:27] <drab> do you see the client getting an ip and a config or something? what happens on the client?
[01:28] <drab> there's quite a few pieces to make this whole thing working: dhcp/tftp offer with the right file, config file for tftp, netbook on the client side
[01:29] <ideopathic> I see the client getting an ip from the server.  I I get the Checking Media Presence, Media Present message and then Start PXE over IPv4
[01:29] <ideopathic> it then switches to IPv6
[01:29] <drab> and then of course luck and magic with the optional sacrifice of a nice bear to Stallman
[01:30] <ideopathic> from another client I can access the pxelinux.0 via tftp without issue
[01:30] <drab> ideopathic: checking media presence? from the bios you mean?
[01:30] <drab> if it already has got an ipv4 I don't get why it'd be checking for media presence
[01:31] <ideopathic> That's the message I get on the screen of the client attempting to boot via PXE
[01:31] <drab> mmmh, that doesn't sound like it's booting yet, if it says checking media file and fails that's still with the pxe boot manager
[01:31] <drab> nothing to do with tftp or your server setup
[01:32] <drab> when you say "start PXE over ipv4" , do you mean start looking for a kerbnel to download?
[01:34] <ideopathic> When the client machine starts up.. it returns the 3 lines Checking Media Presence...\nMedia Present...\nStart PXE over IPv4
[01:34] <ideopathic> the Start PXE over IPv4 turns into Start PXE over IPv6.  After a period of time, the screen clears and returns the message "A bootable device has not been detected"
[01:38] <drab> ok, so the machine never receives a pxe offer
[01:38] <drab> it probably starts on ipv6 after having failed on v4
[01:39] <drab> so your probably is most likely dhcp config
[01:39] <drab> if you run tcpdump on the dhcp server or the dhcp server in debug mode, do you see the client requestin an ip and getting back all info including the tftp ones?
[01:40] <drab> "A bootable device has not been detected" is normal since the disk has no Os installed and the PXE failed to receive a network boot offer
[01:40] <drab> ideopathic: what's your dhcp server? what's your network layout? please paste your dhcp config
[01:40] <drab> dpaste.org
[01:40] <drab> or whatever youi prefer, just not in channel
[01:44] <ideopathic> drab: https://dpaste.de/MF5B
[01:44] <ideopathic> thank you
[01:44] <ideopathic> I am testing node1 at the moment
[01:46] <drab> ok, first obvious answer, does the mac address match?
[01:46] <drab> eer, question, not answer
[01:46] <drab> like are you 100% sure such as that you went into the bios, show system info and found the mac there and compared it?
[01:47] <drab> if not, where did you get the mac from?
[01:47] <ideopathic> i scanned the mac from the machine.. but you're right.. let me double check
[01:48] <drab> ideopathic: I mean, aside from pxe, you should still be seeing entries in syslog from dhcpd
[01:48] <drab> such as dhcpd: DHCPDISCOVER from ....
[01:48] <drab> if you don't see those your client isn't even trying to get an ip
[01:49] <drab> so your problem is far earlier than even pxe
[01:49] <ideopathic> yes: DHCPREQUEST for <IP_ADDRESS> (<IP_ADDRESS>) from f4:4d:30:6f:19:1a via eno1
[01:49] <ideopathic> DHCPACK on <IP_ADDRESS> to f4:4d:30:6f:19:1a via eno1
[01:50] <drab> ok good, so that part is working fine
[01:50] <drab> ideopathic: so then if you grep tftp /var/log/syslog, does it show anything?
[01:51] <drab> on <IP_ADDRESS>
[01:52] <ideopathic> yes.. I'm seeing bind: Address already in use
[01:52] <drab> :)
[01:53] <drab> how have you set up your tftp server?
[01:53] <ideopathic> i've posted tcpdump: https://dpaste.de/XHAU
[01:54] <ideopathic> I pretty much followed this for the config: https://www.ostechnix.com/how-to-install-pxe-server-on-ubuntu-16-04/
[01:54] <ideopathic> tftpd-hpa using inetd
[01:56] <drab> so you get what it shows in the link if you run systemctl status tftpd-hpa ?
[01:56] <drab> meaning, it shows it as running?
[01:57] <ideopathic> shows running
[01:57] <drab> uhm, that links seems contradictory to me
[01:57] <drab> if you set the daemon to yes, then you don't want to run it through inetd
[01:57] <drab> which is probably where the "address already in use" error comes from
[01:58] <drab> it's one or the other
[01:58] <ideopathic> got it.... i thought it odd too.
[01:58] <drab> but then it shouldn't be your problem
[01:58] <drab> because tftp is already running and the tcpdump shows it's downloading a file
[01:59] <drab> so that also seems to be working
[01:59] <drab> what else do you get if you grep tftp /var/log/syslog ? can you dpaste that please?
[02:01] <ideopathic> https://dpaste.de/Wsu4
[02:03] <ideopathic> i stripped out the inet conf
[02:05] <drab> ok, can you try again without inet just in case for some reason that was causing trouble?
[02:06] <ideopathic> just did.. no love
[02:06] <drab> ok, that's fine, wasn't expecting it to, just worth checking
[02:06] <drab> so that looks odd to me because I see no request from the client
[02:07] <drab> your tcpdump shows pxelinux.0 being downloaded
[02:07] <ideopathic> I think I solved it... I had to enable legacy boot on the intel nuc for this to work
[02:07] <drab> oh, great
[02:08] <ideopathic> wow.. do you know any good links that might cover UEFI boot with Ubuntu?
[02:08] <ideopathic> drab: thank you for working through this with me.. I was kind of stuck on my own.
[02:13] <drab> ideopathic: I collected a couple when I was trying to do this myself, but never finished it because we didn't need it so badly to justify the investment
[02:13] <drab> let me look at my bookmarks
[02:15] <drab> ideopathic: http://dpaste.com/0XGRQN8
[02:15] <ideopathic> drab: thank you!
[02:16] <drab> also note that I do things over http, much faster for parallel installs than tftpd
[02:16] <drab> so the second links is about http
[02:16] <drab> which may not apply to you
[02:16] <drab> ideopathic: if you figure it out I'd love to hear about it :)
[02:17] <ideopathic> got.. will likely try a little later...
[02:17] <ideopathic> i have apache running but i think something is off in the config as it's pulling from the interwebs.
[02:20] <drab> bbl
[07:19] <lordievader> Good morning
[07:19] <cpaelzer> hi lordievader
[07:21] <lordievader> Hey cpaelzer, how are you doing?
[07:22] <cpaelzer> as good as it can be for a Monday I'd think :-)
[07:22] <cpaelzer> how are you today?
[07:25] <lordievader> Doing good here. Having a new keyboard at work :)
[07:25] <lordievader> (Played a little with it over the weekend though)
[07:30] <dnegreira> which keyboard ?
[07:30]  * dnegreira looking into keyboards
[07:39] <lordievader> A Ducky ONE TKL
[07:52] <dnegreira> lordievader: neat
[07:53] <lordievader> I wanted a smaller one I could carry around if need be.
[07:55] <dnegreira> numlock is mostly useless
[07:55] <hateball> it's impossible to find a proper TKL keyboard with swedish layout and no windows logo on it :<
[07:56] <hateball> (preferably backlit also)
[07:57] <dnegreira> s/numlock.
[07:57] <dnegreira> s/numlock/numpad
[08:06] <lordievader> hateball: On these type of keyboards all keys are replacable. If you find a nice key for the win key, simply replace it.
[08:28] <TJ-> I've hit a problem with 16.04 server, network-manager and policykit, when remoted in over SSH. On the local console nmtui (the ncurses-based configuration tool) can edit system connections. On the remote session nmtui reports "Insufficient Privileges...". As far as I understand this is due to policykit actions but despite trying several alternate actions, and trying some rules, I've not been able to
[08:28] <TJ-> solve it. Any advice or hints on this?
[08:32] <lordievader> Same user I presume? Does 'loginctl' show the same output?
[08:40] <TJ-> Yeah, same user. Obviously there's no PK agent as there's no GUI. I tried several variations of custom actions and rules but not found a solution so far when on SSH
[08:41] <TJ-> "same output" ? you mean "insufficient privileges"? plain "loginctl" just shows the current sessions (1 local, 1 remote)
[08:46] <TJ-> as well as some custom action attempts I've tried this rule:
[08:46] <TJ->   if (action.id == "org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.settings.modify.system" &&
[08:46] <TJ->         (subject.isInGroup ("sudo") || subject.isInGroup ("netdev"))) {
[08:46] <TJ->     return polkit.Result.YES;
[09:00] <TJ-> I've got it to work setting ResultAny=yes" Action=org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.settings.modify.system Identity=unix-group:sudo  in /etc/policykit/localauthority/50-local.d/60-network-manager.pkla, but my initial reading of the docs suggested that ResultAny=yes wasn't very secure. I'd best reread that
[09:16] <lordievader> I always got the idea that polkit was very related to logind.
[09:16] <lordievader> Didn't the auth log point to why access was denied?
[09:26] <TJ-> There was nothing at all in auth
[09:29] <lordievader> Ah, you might need to add log statements in order to have polkit actually log things: https://www.freedesktop.org/software/polkit/docs/latest/polkit.8.html
[09:31] <TJ-> Yes, I tried that too, but couldn't find them anywhere in the recorded log files
[09:36] <lordievader> Not in the systemd journal either?
[09:39] <TJ-> Nowhere
[13:03] <gunix> how often should i update ubuntu serve?
[13:07] <ogra_> every time it tells you to at the login scrreen
[13:11] <gunix> ogra_: not possible in production situations where downtime has to be agreed with by customers.
[13:11] <ogra_> well, then whenever your schedule allows ... what i meant to point out is that the machine tells you if there are updates available
[13:13] <gunix> ogra_: normally distros have specifications regarding how long you can go without upgrades, without living in the fear that a big upgrade will break the system. for example, archlinux should be upgraded once per day, but debian can go for months without upgrades. debian testing should be upgrade once per week. debian sid should get upgraded daily.
[13:13] <lordievader> gunix: Updates do not necesarily mean downtime.
[13:14] <gunix> lordievader: ubuntu has weekly kernel upgrades
[13:14] <lordievader> So? Since when are you forced to reboot when there is a kernel update?
[13:14] <lordievader> If you have good reason to reboot to a new kernel once  month, you reboot  once a month.
[13:15] <lordievader> And the above seems like a good reason to me.
[13:15] <gunix> sound like "do w/e you want and reboot when you can" :))
[13:16] <lordievader> Pretty much. Linux/Ubuntu won't force you to do anything. If a certain practice is wise is something different ;)
[13:16]  * ogra_ highly doubts debian can go for months without upgrades
[13:16] <ogra_> (unless you dont care about security at alll)
[13:17] <lordievader> I'd do updates as often as possible. And reboot when necesary and possible.
[13:17] <gunix> ogra_: it has kernel upgrades once every 2-3 months, and upgrades usually come as a huge pack, except security upgrades
[13:17] <ogra_> ubuntu LTS is in the same boat as debian stable though
[13:17] <gunix> ogra_: isn't ubuntu LTS based on debian testing?
[13:17] <ogra_> no on unstable ... with 6months of stabilization
[13:17] <gunix> lordievader: i am not asking about what ubuntu forces me. i am asking how it is wise to do.
[13:18] <ogra_> wise is to do it every time there is a security update :)
[13:18] <gunix> ogra_: do you have a link with that information?
[13:18] <ogra_> not really
[13:18] <gunix> ogra_: wait a sec
[13:18] <ogra_> there are mailing lists where that was discussed ... i guess the ubuntu-devel ML
[13:19] <ogra_> there were a few LTSes in the beginjning where using testing was tried ...
[13:19] <ogra_> typically only if the release schedules have some bad overlap or so, so that unstable would be to risky
[13:20] <gunix> ogra_: lts is based on debian testing and other versions are based on debian unstable
[13:22] <ogra_> gunix, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LTS
[13:22] <gunix> well, anyway, i am going to ask again, but rephrase: does ubuntu provide any official advice on how often the ubuntu server should be upgraded?
[13:22] <ogra_> "Starting with the 14.04 LTS development cycle, automatic full package import is performed from Debian unstable"
[13:22] <ogra_> every time you have a security upgrade :)
[13:22] <gunix> ogra_: thank you, i didn't know that.
[13:22] <gunix> ogra_: do you have a link?
[13:23] <ogra_> for what ?
[13:23] <gunix>  ogra_ | every time you have a security upgrade :)
[13:23] <maswan> Yeah, I'd recommend automatic updates
[13:23] <ogra_> well, thats common sense ...
[13:23] <gunix> i want to see the official page from ubuntu on this
[13:23] <maswan> Possibly with blacklisting of things that won't handle a restart well, like postrges for some applications using it, etc
[13:23] <ogra_> you dont want your production systems to run with open security holes
[13:23] <gunix> well, equally if it makes sense or not, i need the recommandation from the website. that's what i am searching for :)
[13:23] <ogra_> i doubt thats anywhere written as recommendation simply because its a logical conclusion
[13:24] <ogra_> if theer is a known security hole you want it closed ASAP
[13:25] <ogra_> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AutomaticSecurityUpdates btw
[13:25] <gunix> ogra_: yes, that is clear.
[13:25] <ogra_> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AutomaticSecurityUpdates#Using_the_.22unattended-upgrades.22_package
[13:26] <ogra_> that bit specifically
[13:27] <gunix> hmm. this should do. looks official enough. i will suggest automatic upgrades, with these articles as backup, and monthly reboots during security windows. thank you!
[15:19] <tomreyn> gunix: it would be better to have two business processes - one which ensures monthly reboots, another which ensures reboots upon critical kernel vulnerabilities.
[15:21] <tomreyn> you dot want to sit around 30 days with a vulnerable kernel in case of critical security issues.
[15:25] <gunix> tomreyn: that sounds like a good plan
[15:28] <tomreyn> you could also just do the critical ones but this would only work if you can ensure it happening reliably and fast. or look into live kernel patching.
[15:52] <gunix> tomreyn: live kernel patching is not really that safe yet.
[15:53] <tomreyn> HA is and always will be the bette roption
[15:55]  * drab wishes ldirectord was simpler to manage
[16:19] <madLyfe> lordievader: you around? i need your master on the server installer
[16:20] <madLyfe> mastery*
[16:21] <Ussat> TBH I will never trust live patching....on any of my systems....AIX/RHEL or Ubuntu
[16:33] <jbicha> Any suggested things people would like to see in 18.04 on the server side: LP: #1618188
[16:34] <jbicha> probably more of a Foundations thing, right? but it's nice when everybody agrees on taking the step
[16:52] <madLyfe> maybe you guys can help. i need to get the server installer to recognize my usb ethernet adapter. it has the module because if i complete the install w/o setting up the adapter i am able to manually set it up after boot by going into the network interfaces file.
[16:53] <madLyfe> the desktop live usb doesnt have a problem recognizing the adapter either.
[16:54] <madLyfe> so i just want to get it to recognize during install on server.


[00:16] <xD--> HEllo, anyone available for help ?
[01:50] <dzsky> hi
[02:13] <kdef> hi, does anyone use a bluetooth wireless keyboard?  I am just wondering whether it works and can be set up?
[02:28] <fractaline> kdef,   i do
[02:28] <fractaline> i just got one secondhand,  worked with no setup
[02:34] <kdef> I don't know anything about it... but, I think I need to buy a bluetooth dongle too ...since, the keyboard doesn't come with it
[02:34] <kdef> my mobo is old and I don't think there's any bluetooth hardware in it
[07:21] <nicolenicole> Hello, I cannot find the package "edubuntu-desktop-kde" on Muon, Ubuntu Software Center, Synaptic, or with "sudo apt-get install" in Terminal.  It is listed on Edubuntu.org and Launchpad, has it been discontinued or am I missing a prerequisite package perhaps?
[07:22] <jussi> !info edubuntu-desktop-kde
[07:22] <nicolenicole> oh ok yes, I am in Kubuntu 13.04, just installed it
[07:22] <nicolenicole> so I have to wait until the Edubuntu team makes a package for 13.04 Raring?
[07:23] <jussi> nicolenicole: best tto ask in #edubuntu
[07:24] <nicolenicole> asking there
[08:02] <adugeek> Hey  everyone  ! ~  can someone  help me about  shell comand " iptables " ?
[08:07] <nicolenicole> "iptables -h" for help
[08:09] <lordievader> adugeek: Try ufw, much easier than writing your own iptables rules.
[08:09] <adugeek> I know  ,but it could not help me ~
[08:12] <adugeek> sorry ,my english is poor ~It would take me some time to display my question
[08:14] <lordievader> Lets see if there is a Chinese Kubuntu channel.
[08:15] <lordievader> !chinese
[08:16] <lordievader> adugeek: You could also try there. Or try to get your question across here ;)
[08:16] <adugeek> I want  that ~~my pc only can access one host  like "facebook.com" ,else can't  !
[08:16] <adugeek> thank you ~~I will have a try
[09:30] <Guest6513800> hi, i've installed kubuntu 13.04 and after installing from the additional drivers the broadcom wireless driver and nvidia gpu driver the interface freezes at some points
[09:30] <Guest6513800> i can open the menu from the taskbar
[09:30] <Guest6513800> but no commands i  do after work
[09:39] <yossarianuk> Guest6513800: I would check you have the latest version of the nvidia driver - which version of driver are you using + what card do you have ?
[09:44] <lolmac404> yossarianuk i've intalled from the additional drivers program, it said it supported from models 5xxx to 9xxx of nvidia, my model is 8400m, the problem is i can't uninstall the driver to see if it changes, because the interface is freezing at some points, is there someway i can open the terminal full screen without navigating to its shortcut?
[09:45] <yossarianuk> yes
[09:45] <yossarianuk> try ctrl+alt + f2
[09:48] <lolmac404> thanks
[09:49] <yossarianuk> then login and try
[09:49] <yossarianuk> dpkg -l | grep nvidia
[10:36] <yossarianuk> you can always reset kde by moving the .kde folder and restaring ligtmd
[10:40] <alfonsojon> Hi, I just opened Quassel and it put me here
[10:40] <alfonsojon> I came for #winehackers but I figured I'd just stop by and say amazing job to anyone here who is helping with the KDE project :)
[10:40] <alfonsojon> Kubuntu 13.10 and KDE 4.11 rock! :D
[11:44] <poee> hi. Is the latest release of  kubuntu LTS?/
[11:44] <yossarianuk> no
[11:44] <yossarianuk> 12.04 is
[11:44] <yossarianuk> 14.04 is next
[11:45] <poee> this is 13.10 right?
[11:45] <poee> the one i got notification for , today?
[11:45] <yossarianuk> 13.10 is out in oct
[11:45] <yossarianuk> its testng
[11:45] <poee> I have 13.04, and I got a notification saying a new version of kubuntu is available
[11:47] <poee> not sure why
[11:51] <yossarianuk> you must have enabled development versions?
[11:52] <poee> no. I am not a tester or anything
[12:04] <yossarianuk> when you upgraded last time did you enable dev?)
[12:31] <yahyaa> can someone please tell me why k3b keeps crashing on me when I try to add audio files to burn???
[13:12] <BluesKaj> Hey folks
[13:25] <yossarianuk> hey
[14:51] <palasso> Hi. I was wondering if someone had a suggestion on how to do "diffs" between metapackages. I'm mostly interested in comparing kde-full with kubuntu-full and some other metapackages and understand better the general structure of the kubuntu packages. I already read these which helped to some extend: http://askubuntu.com/questions/90130/whats-kubuntu-full  http://blogs.kde.org/2013/06/21/411-build-chart-and-what-else
[17:07] <randomlurker> I have a issue with my kubuntu installation. When I start my pc it shows me the login screen but there's no 'KDE Plazma Workspace' button (I see a tiny square)
[17:07] <randomlurker> and when I log in I'm shown a black screen
[17:08] <randomlurker> shadeslayer: ^
[17:09] <shadeslayer> make sure you have kubuntu-desktop installed
[17:10] <randomlurker> shadeslayer: I'm not able to do anything. I can only use a root shell via the recovery mode
[17:10] <shadeslayer> so go in through that, attach a ethernet cable / tether your phone?
[17:10] <randomlurker> okay
[17:11] <shadeslayer> and then make sure kubuntu-desktop is installed
[17:11] <randomlurker> I'll give it a try
[17:11] <shadeslayer> note you'll need root + networking
[17:11] <randomlurker> How do I enable networking from the terminal?
[17:12] <randomlurker> everything worked fine till this evening.
[17:14] <shadeslayer> when you reboot to recovery it should give you an optop
[17:14] <shadeslayer> *option
[17:14] <randomlurker> okay
[17:14]  * randomlurker is going to reboot the pc now
[17:52] <palasso> Hi. I was wondering if someone had a suggestion on how to do "diffs" between metapackages (dependencies). I'm mostly interested in comparing kde-full with kubuntu-full and some other metapackages and understand better the general structure of the kubuntu packages. I already read these which helped to some extend: http://askubuntu.com/questions/90130/whats-kubuntu-full http://blogs.kde.org/2013/06/21/411-build-chart-and-what-else
[19:41] <stack3457___> http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=VZLbZXC1 I am getting this error while building plasma-framework
[21:48] <Knasil> Alright.
[23:12] <stack3457>  anybody awake ? who could tell me why I am getting this cmake error on building plasma-framework /home/heena/kf5/share/ECM/find-modules/FindKF5.cmake:124 (message):   KF5: requested unknown components KIO;KUnitConversion;KDE4Attica ?
[23:56] <claycorn> greetings


[03:16] <tix_habbit> Someone could get information on how I can contribute to the development of the artwork of ubuntu? sorry for my bad english.


[20:11] <drc> Anyone have experience with Dell I 1420n (laptop with ubuntu pre-installed) ?
[20:15] <xhaker> drc: i got one of the laptops dell sells with ubuntu
[20:15] <xhaker> maybe i can help. mine is a xps m1330
[20:16] <drc> oh, I don't really have a problem, in fact I have not yet received it - friday :(
[20:16] <drc> I was just wondering about any gotcha's involved
[20:17] <drc> wait...I do have a question...is there anything Dell specific that Dell includes, or could I just grad a live cd and in reinstall the way I want?
[20:18] <xhaker> you can grab the livecd and get it done.
[20:18] <drc> I talking especially about drivers here
[20:19] <xhaker> I didn't need any drivers. Everything worked out of the box.
[20:19] <drc> great...thanks a lot
[20:19] <xhaker> dell includes a dvd codec though.
[20:19] <drc> bah...That I can do for myself :)
[20:22] <drc> xhaker:  Did Dell have one large / partition, or did they do the decent thing and make /, /home etc. different partitions


[13:46] <mup> Bug #1779970 changed: Cannot find cloud-init datasource error when adding a node through a new rackd controller <MAAS:Invalid> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1779970>
[14:00] <sentinel-prime> *crickets*


[00:17] <BUGabundo> nite
[02:39] <bitplane> halp! I think I found a bug... can one of you please help me confirm and then walk me through the bug reporting process?
[02:40] <bitplane> I changed the switcher with the Simple CompizConfig settings thing, but I can't do alt+shift+tab on the new fancy switchers. alt+tab works fine, alt+shift+tab doesn't do anything in the new switchers
[02:40] <bitplane> but it works in the old one
[02:40] <bitplane> I'm using a UK keyboard if that makes any difference. I've also tried both shift keys, which shouldn't
[02:55] <cozziemoto> bitplane,   are you sure you have 11.04 installed because the compiz that is default is  0.9
[02:56] <cozziemoto> bitplane,  also I think you might want to install compizconfig-settings-manager
[02:56] <cozziemoto> billybigrigger,  rather than simple ccsm
[02:58] <bitplane> all my software sources say maverick
[03:29] <Volkodav> Half the plugins' icons are not visible in xfce or is it just me ?
[03:30] <Volkodav> in xfce panel*
[03:41] <charlie-tca> Volkodav: icons in the system tray shrink until they disappear.
[03:42] <Volkodav> charlie-tca: I am talking about the panel
[03:42] <Volkodav> some are visible - some are not
[03:42] <charlie-tca> The tray is in the top panel, next to the speaker, normally.
[03:43] <Volkodav> I add them - they are in the panel but not visible
[03:43] <charlie-tca> Most of us have them right after we log in, then they dsisappear through the day
[03:43] <Volkodav> :)
[03:44] <charlie-tca> hm, try changing icon sets or appearance theme?
[03:44] <Volkodav> panel 2 has it Ok
[03:44] <Volkodav> yes I changed icons not the theme though
[03:45] <Volkodav> nope - still the same
[03:45] <charlie-tca> and, it does still have some bugs in 4.7, too
[03:46] <charlie-tca> Some of the plugins are still broken, they won't work yet. They have to fix weather app and something else yet
[03:46] <Volkodav> That i already see - the panel was substantially rewritten and is full of glitches with compiz on top of it....
[03:46] <charlie-tca> yup
[03:46] <Volkodav> say you add any launcer and it is still invisible - you click on where the blind spot is and it works
[03:47] <Volkodav> with or withpit compiz
[03:47] <Volkodav> i am sure they'll square it out
[03:47] <Volkodav> any idea how i restart the panel now?
[03:47] <Volkodav> Old one would give a menu on the corner right click
[03:48] <charlie-tca> places plugin is gone, too
[03:48] <nit-wit> Volkodav, killall gnome-panel
[03:48] <charlie-tca> restart it by using Alt+F2, xfce4-panel &
[03:49] <charlie-tca> If you did not pick keep old configuration, you no longer have a menu
[03:49] <nit-wit> charlie-tca, that makes more sense
[03:49] <Volkodav> no workie charlie-tca
[03:49] <charlie-tca> you have a top panel, right?
[03:50] <Volkodav> yeah
[03:50] <Volkodav> old one used to have restart on right click
[03:50] <Volkodav> this new one does not
[03:50] <charlie-tca> no it doesn't
[03:50] <charlie-tca> Try this - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/XubuntuPanels
[03:51] <charlie-tca> Kill them, then restart it
[03:51] <Volkodav> why they removed restart though - was very handy
[03:51] <Volkodav> when killing it will not save the config
[03:52] <Volkodav> I need it saved
[03:52] <charlie-tca> They completely re-wrote the panel code. It may have just got missed
[03:52] <Volkodav> They's better put it back in - I will file it as a bug before they forget
[03:55] <charlie-tca> I picked "default configuration" in natty. Got the top panel with what used to be in the bottom and the quit button. Bottom is 4 launchers, one of which is application finder. That replaced the menu for me
[03:56] <Volkodav> charlie-tca: I change the panels all around - do not even remember how it was day one :)
[03:56] <charlie-tca> It was different! I got that down
[03:57] <charlie-tca> Well, time for bed. Good luck with that. Might have to logout/login, or even restart to get the panel working right again
[03:57] <Volkodav> Laters charlie-tca
[06:01] <timboy> are we seriously going to have a global menu like mac?
[06:01] <rww> yes
[06:04] <timboy> will the menu follow the windows when they aren't maximized or are they always going to be at the top?
[06:04] <timboy> that's my biggest hatred of OSX
[06:06] <rww> If I recall correctly, they stay at the top.
[06:06] <timboy> so gay
[06:07] <rww> timboy: Don't use "gay" as a pejorative, please.
[06:09] <timboy> it's a suitable pejorative i believe. I'll use it if I want. it means wrong or absurd or bad or backwards
[06:09] <rww> No, it's not. It's offensive, and not acceptable for Ubuntu's channels.
[06:09] <timboy> i know being gay is offensive
[06:10] <IdleOne> !codeofconduct | timboy
[06:10] <timboy> i didn't come here for a debate and i don't want to try to dissuade your wrong opinions.
[06:11] <rww> timboy: Opinions have nothing to do with it. Part of this channel's guidelines are respect for others. Using sexual orientation as a pejorative is disrespectful and unacceptable behavior.
[06:11] <timboy> lol
[06:27] <Volkodav> I noticed really weird behaviour of the right click in xfce with compiz - the menu of the right click shows up behind the app - I noticed that only on a half transparent window - otherwise it feels like it does not work at all
[06:27] <Volkodav> any app
[10:04] <h4f> I have installed natty for testing purpose on my notebook. what is what is the key to see menu in all windows ?
[10:05] <h4f> how do I see the list of running programs ? its not displayed in notification
[10:10] <rumpe1> h4f, do you use unity?
[10:18] <xharx> i have installed natty from life system, but install does not start. also not able to invoke konsole (alt ctrl f1)
[11:26] <xharx> i have installed natty from life system, but install does not start. also not able to invoke konsole (alt ctrl f1)
[14:48] <indus> i cannot enable unity
[14:48] <indus> any suggestions, my system is uptodate
[15:02] <coz_> gawd the lanche is ugly ;0
[15:02] <coz_> launcher
[15:54] <coz_> what ever happened to the sounds that were suppose to be changed?
[15:56] <IdleOne> art and sounds come later on in the cycle don't they
[16:02] <Pici> Usuaully.
[16:02] <Pici> Usually too.
[16:02] <coz_> ok
[16:02] <coz_> does anyone know who was picked to create the new sounds?
[16:03] <IdleOne> I don't think that info is revealed until the packages are released
[16:04] <IdleOne> I could be completely wrong
[16:09] <Pici> I'd guess that the art team might have that information, but I may be wrong as well.
[16:09] <coz_> Pici,  i;ll check
[16:10] <coz_> although they did have a site to upload examples of new sounds from the user community
[16:13] <IdleOne> coz_: a wiki page iirc
[16:14] <IdleOne> best bet is to ask the art team
[16:14] <coz_> ok
[17:39] <duffydack> umnm, so I got alpha1 (tried daily-live also same problem) and I made usb with persistence but its not using the casper-rw.  ?
[17:58] <fagan> hmmmm is anyone else getting unity segfaulting
[17:59]  * fagan updated but thought unity would be fine to update
[17:59] <IdleOne> the joy of alpha release
[18:00] <fagan> IdleOne: yeah but it was relatively stable up to now
[18:00] <IdleOne> things break
[18:00] <fagan> its interesting that they let an update thats segfaulting in
[18:01] <IdleOne> it's to be expected that your alpha os will not boot
[18:01] <IdleOne> or run properly
[18:01] <fagan> IdleOne: yeah things break but thats where developers at least run their code before pushing an update. I know all that I have been testing for a crap load of releases now.
[18:01] <rumpel__> or doesn't damage anything
[18:02] <rumpel__> perhaps it's a very hardware-specific bug
[18:02] <fagan> when we are the upstream (in things like unity) I presume that the sky isnt going to fall for an update
[18:02] <fagan> rumpel__: probably not
[18:05] <charlie-tca> fagan: did you try unity --reset  ?
[18:11] <fagan> charlie-tca: nope
[18:11] <fagan> ill give it a go
[18:11] <charlie-tca> it was fixing things yesterday
[18:12] <fagan> charlie-tca: that fixed it
[18:13] <fagan> hanks
[18:13] <fagan> *thanks
[18:13] <charlie-tca> You are welcome
[18:13]  * charlie-tca got my one right today
[18:13] <IdleOne> one a day keeps the devs away?
[18:13] <charlie-tca> nope
[18:13] <charlie-tca> I only seem to get one answer right each day
[18:14]  * charlie-tca thinks no point in trying to answer any more questions todya
[18:17] <coz_> did I mention the Launcher is gosh darn ugly :)
[18:18] <charlie-tca> no :-)
[18:18] <coz_>  The launcher is gosh darn ugly :)
[18:19] <charlie-tca> Thank you for mentioning that
[18:29] <charlie-tca> virtualbox is broken in natty?
[18:39] <bongmaster__> does anyone know why tehre is an extra x64 mac version?
[18:48] <charlie-tca> anybody know how to make VBox puel version work again in natty?
[20:29] <duffydack> Ive tried lucid and maverick to make a natty usb stick with casper-rw but its just not using the casper-rw,  is this a common problem?
[20:52] <ghostcube> nkt dass der chip + velo damals 190 geksotet ham
[20:52] <guntbert> ghostcube: wrong window?
[20:53] <ghostcube> oh lol sorry i was typing in another chan as the channels openeing all
[20:53] <ghostcube> my fault
[20:53] <guntbert> :)
[20:54] <guntbert> as there is not much talking anyway I see no problem - it was only intended as a reminder :-)
[20:54] <ghostcube> thx so far i havent noticed till you told me :)
[21:39] <feros> Hello there :) Searching for help about Ubuntu 11.04 :)
[21:39] <feros> Good sign :P I ask for help and 1 quits >:
[21:40]  * rumpel__ quits too
[21:40] <feros> Anyone wanna help me a bit with my Microphone problem :/? my "sudo gedit /etc/esound/esd.conf" is blank,
[21:41] <feros> Whitor :D Pro Ubuntu user :3?
[21:43] <feros> 206 people here, and none can help :P
[21:43] <feros> Wooohoooo
[21:44] <rww> !helpme
[21:44] <feros> errr,
[21:44] <feros> I feel shot after that
[21:45] <tejaishot> Amaranth: i have a problem when i am trying to install updates...shows an error connection to daemon lost....what is this called?
[21:45] <tejaishot> i have a problem when i am trying to install updates...shows an error connection to daemon lost....what is this called?
[21:59] <BUGabundo> yo
[22:08] <feros> dyo
[22:08] <feros> yo*
[22:14] <coz_> whoa   gksudo nautilus is giving an error  ..."underlying authorization mechanism (sudo) does not allow you tu run this program
[22:19] <IdleOne> coz_: not seeing that here
[22:19] <Amaranth> whoa OpenGL ES is still broken for i965 :/
[22:19] <IdleOne> Amaranth: fix it :)
[22:20] <Amaranth> IdleOne: I'm compiling the i965 gallium driver now
[22:20] <Amaranth> If the driver itself doesn't fall over GLES is free
[22:21] <IdleOne> sounds good
[22:21] <Amaranth> Although this doesn't look promising: "<Dr_Jakob> Amaranth: its dead jim."
[22:34] <BUGabundo> -root   ALL=(ALL) ALL
[22:34] <BUGabundo> +root   ALL=(ALL:ALL) ALL
[22:34] <BUGabundo> are we changing sudoers?
[22:48] <crucialhoax> hello all
[22:50] <crucialhoax> I created a live usb and when it boots it stops as soon as it shows the 'Debian`date` Peter et all' screen is this a bug?
[22:59] <charlie-tca> BUGabundo: look like this? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sudo/+bug/690873
[22:59] <BUGabundo> OOPS
[22:59] <BUGabundo> should I revert ?
[23:00] <charlie-tca> it is being discussed in #ubuntu-devel
[23:00] <crimsun> if you can revert, yes
[23:01] <crimsun> bah
[23:01] <crucialhoax> I created a live usb and when it boots it stops as soon as it shows the 'Debian`date` Peter et all' screen is this a bug?
[23:19] <BUGabundo> crimsun: too late
[23:19] <BUGabundo> crimsun: charlie-tca I have my /etc with etckeeper and bazaar
[23:20] <BUGabundo> sufice to revert that? or do I need the binaires too?
[23:20] <bjsnider> crimsun, why would vlc have a volume control that operates independently of pulse if it's using pulse's output driver?
[23:21] <duffydack> I cant create a live usb with persistence, it just wont use the persistence part..
[23:21] <crimsun> bjsnider: "operates independently"?
[23:21] <crimsun> bjsnider: note that we still disable flat volumes
[23:24] <bjsnider> crimsun, what i mean is, vlc's volume control moves separately from the one that appears in pulse's applications tab, and can move the volume higher than pulse can get it
[23:25] <BUGabundo> bugabundo is not in the sudoers file.  This incident will be reported.
[23:26] <BUGabundo> I guess its to late for me
[23:26] <BUGabundo> live cd here I come
[23:26] <bjsnider> reported to whom? the swiss navy?
[23:27] <BUGabundo> chroot here I come
[23:31] <BUGabundo> so I'm no longer ROOT of my own laptop... awesome
[23:31] <BUGabundo> machines are taking over
[23:32] <bjsnider> yeah, the matrix has you
[23:33] <Ian_Corne> watch out with updating the sudoers file
[23:33] <Ian_Corne> oh
[23:33] <Ian_Corne> it's in the topic :p
[23:33] <Ian_Corne> to bad :D
[23:34] <Amaranth> bjsnider: vlc runs an audio filter to boost the volume before sending it to pulse
[23:34] <Amaranth> So it gets overdrive, 400% volume
[23:34] <bjsnider> is it possible to turn that off?
[23:34] <Amaranth> Not that I know of
[23:35] <bjsnider> well, i don't want the sound filtered
[23:39] <fagan> I updated but I still have root access
[23:39] <fagan> so am I still good?
[23:40] <charlie-tca> yup
[23:40] <fagan> yay
[23:50] <h00k> So, there was just an update...I allowed it to install package-maintainers version of /etc/sudoers, suddenly I can't sudo on my box.
[23:51] <charlie-tca> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sudo/+bug/690873
[23:51] <h00k> yeah. Cool.
[23:52] <h00k> wonder how I should take car eof this :D
[23:54] <charlie-tca> h00k: boot a live cd, mount your root disk and:
[23:54] <charlie-tca> echo "%admin ALL=(ALL) ALL" >> /etc/sudoers
[23:54] <charlie-tca> to /etc/sudoers on your root disk, of course
[23:54] <h00k> charlie-tca: yeah, I have my USB drive here...I'll do that


[04:20] <pitti> Good morning
[04:33] <kotux> good evening pitti
[05:57] <Noskcaj10> smartboyhw, The branch was a re-base, plus a tiny fix.
[05:58] <elfy> Noskcaj10: you going to be doing any of the manual testcases that xubuntu needs to be done?
[05:59] <Noskcaj10> elfy, i've got some uploaded, waiting to merge, plus a fix for the pdf reader
[06:00] <elfy> cool :)
[06:00] <Noskcaj> let me know if there are any specific ones that need working on
[06:01] <elfy> any that aren't in progress ;) https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-tests/+bugs?field.tag=xubuntu&orderby=status&start=0
[06:02] <elfy> you could do media stuff
[06:05] <Noskcaj> ok, i'll have a look
[06:05] <elfy> cheers
[06:06] <elfy> you can also help by keeping on at me about the gnumeric one :)
[06:08] <Noskcaj> i think my problem is i try to cover absolutely everything. e.g. i made a 2 page test for gnome mines
[06:08] <elfy> gnumeric is going to be a doozy
[06:08] <elfy> probably overkill for gnome mines ;)
[06:09] <elfy> and games are probably of minor importance as far as we're concerned
[06:11] <Noskcaj> yep
[06:14] <Noskcaj> balloons, you're missing saucy candence week 2 on the wiki
[06:20] <Noskcaj> phillw, You're waking up now rather than going to sleep, it's a miracle
[06:23] <Noskcaj> smartboyhw, there's an issue with us contributing to testdrive. we need to sign something
[06:25] <Noskcaj> elfy, i think gimp is fixed. i'll mark it as that
[06:25] <elfy> well - check first :)
[06:26] <Noskcaj> done, it was finidhed. t least in a basic sense
[06:26] <Noskcaj> *finished
[06:34] <Noskcaj> elfy, although it's slightly pointless, i'll work on xfce4 notes, it shouldn't take more than an hour
[06:36] <elfy> ok
[07:04] <jibel> good morning
[07:08] <Noskcaj> elfy, https://code.launchpad.net/~noskcaj/ubuntu-manual-tests/notes/+merge/169728
[07:10] <elfy> Noskcaj: I'll have a look a bit later - it's that time of the morning again
[07:15] <elfy> Noskcaj: it'll be done by the time you wake up
[07:15] <Noskcaj> :)
[07:16] <elfy> Noskcaj: you can look at exo helper https://code.launchpad.net/~elfy/ubuntu-manual-tests/exo_helper/+merge/169729
[07:16] <elfy> now I really should get on with the day
[07:57] <Skini151> Hi guys , i encountered a problem/
[07:58] <Noskcaj> Skini151, what is it?
[07:59] <Skini151> When i install iso image with KVM it's working fine, but when i'm using Virtual box i have some errors after installing Ubuntu on vm i see only black screen
[07:59] <Noskcaj> can you upload a screenshot
[07:59] <Skini151> ok
[07:59] <Skini151> just a sec
[08:04] <Skini151> this is kind'a weird VM worked like it should
[08:04] <Skini151> o_0
[08:04] <Skini151> yesterday i see only blackscreen
[08:04] <smartboyhw> Noskcaj, I signed that already...
[08:04] <smartboyhw> I forgotten what....
[08:05] <smartboyhw> Canonical Contributor Agreement ah
[08:05] <smartboyhw> I signed
[08:05] <Noskcaj> smartboyhw, oh, you had?
[08:05] <smartboyhw> Don't tell me that each seperate project needs another agreement..
[08:05] <smartboyhw> Noskcaj, I did
[08:05]  * smartboyhw has forgotten for WT reason
[08:07] <Noskcaj> i guess i'll have to sign it then.
[08:07] <Skini151> Noskcaj, is there a need to install guest additions in Virtual box
[08:07] <Noskcaj> Skini151, not for basic testing
[08:08] <Skini151> but it's good  to install?
[08:08] <Skini151> and for what tests?
[08:08] <smartboyhw> Noskcaj, what's the prob? They don't allow us to join project because we haven't signed it or?
[08:09] <Noskcaj> smartboyhw, skellat had said there might be issues, i was going to ask Daviey
[08:09] <Noskcaj> Skini151, i think it's for plugging USB into the PC and having them appear in the VM
[08:10] <smartboyhw> Noskcaj, ooh:)
[08:10] <smartboyhw> :(
[08:10] <Skini151> Noskcaj, ok ,thanks for help
[08:10] <Noskcaj> Skini151, no problem.
[08:12] <knome> Noskcaj, this is a lesson in life. if you don't know what you are signing and/or why you are signing, don't sign.
[08:13] <smartboyhw> I think I signed it for some project I did work on...
[08:13] <Noskcaj> knome, makes sense.
[08:13] <knome> if you are unsure, ask people
[08:13] <Noskcaj> the bit i don't understand is what does "Please add the Canonical Project Manager or contact" mean?
[08:15] <smartboyhw> Noskcaj, in this case: Dave Walker.
[08:17] <Noskcaj> ok, thanks
[08:36] <smartboyhw> Ah yeah, forgot of the People behind Canonical Quality thing...\
[09:57] <smartboyhw> gema, http://smartboyhw.tk/wordpress_smartboyhw/?p=65
[09:57] <smartboyhw> balloons, ^]
[10:57] <gema> smartboyhw: awesome, thanks
[10:57] <smartboyhw> gema, :)
[10:57] <gema> smartboyhw: the pics seem broken to me, though :P
[10:57] <smartboyhw> gema, :O
[10:57]  * gema cannot stop testing when reading blogs either :D
[10:57] <smartboyhw> I can load it (even in Planet Ubuntu)
[10:57] <gema> uhmmm, let me see
[10:58] <gema> smartboyhw: of course you can, they are links to your email :)
[10:58] <gema> smartboyhw: https://mail-attachment.googleusercontent.com/attachment/u/0/?saduie=AG9B_P-AMR7OaJFl_u0PKbLKSeuw&attid=0.1&disp=emb&view=att&th=13eaca9dc18d7397
[10:58] <smartboyhw> gema, yeah, shouldn't have done that:P
[10:58] <gema> smartboyhw: you need to download them from your email and upload them to the server :)
[10:58] <gema> then link them
[10:59] <gema> smartboyhw: in any case, thanks for that article :)
[11:00] <smartboyhw> gema, :)
[13:18] <apw> gema, did i hear you say you had some results with my tweaked kernel
[13:18] <apw> gema, did you see my final analysis of how to get comparible results
[13:19] <gema> apw: I read an email, is that the analysis you are referring to?
[13:19] <gema> apw: yes I have results and your changes are good, imho
[13:19] <apw> gema, the email indeed, wh
[13:19] <apw> gema, the email indeed, which talked about how i thought we could cope with the battery recalibrations exposed by the driver
[13:20] <gema> apw: yes, I read it, I need to go back to it to answer to you
[13:20] <gema> apw: my results are showing quite linear and nice discharge rates tbh
[13:20] <apw> gema, just reading the current values from charge_now ?
[13:20] <gema> apw: yes
[13:21] <gema> apw: the voltage is a bit trickier, though, so I am expecting some error in the calculations
[13:21] <apw> gema, well then you must have a very different device, as mine changes base several times
[13:21] <gema> apw: I have a nexus 4, quite new
[13:21] <apw> gema, as do i, same batch i am sure
[13:22] <gema> I will upload the graphs, trying to figure out which ones are useful
[13:22] <gema> hold on
[13:22] <gema> apw: will ping you in 10 mins
[13:22] <gema> I am going to put them on the wiki
[13:22] <gema> then we can talk about it
[13:22] <apw> gema, ok, what are we using the voltage for, i thought we were interested in charge
[13:23] <gema> apw: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/AutomatedTesting/BatteryConsumption
[13:23] <gema> apw: point 4 on "how to do it"
[13:24] <gema> apw: to calculate the energy consumed
[13:27] <apw> gema, i
[13:27] <apw> gema, i see
[13:29] <gema> apw: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/AutomatedTesting/BatteryConsumption/Nexus4
[13:29] <gema> those are the graphs
[13:31] <gema> apw: so for these measurements to be sort of valuable, I think we need to discharge some serious battery, 60 secs measurements like cking is doing with the fluke is not going to do it for software metrics
[13:35] <cking> gema, those graphs seem to imply idle ran for ~2.5 hours before the battery drained
[13:35] <apw> gema, those show 'under load' tests I assume (given the battery drains in 2.77 hours) ... what about under idle
[13:35] <gema> yep, under a lot of load
[13:35] <gema> I did some slower runs during the weekend
[13:35] <gema> let me find those other graphs :D
[13:36] <apw> given our primary use case must be idle all the time, else the phone will last 2.7 hours :)  i'd like to see stability off load
[13:36] <gema> I wasn't trying to measure idle, I was trying to figure out how linear the voltage/charge_now measurements are
[13:36] <apw> my testing was done against idle, and i found charge_now rebased often here
[13:36] <apw> gema, right but that is only its characteristics when pulling lots of current
[13:37] <gema> apw: as discussed with cking before, I don't think we should use software metrics for idle case
[13:37] <apw> when the battey becomes warm etc
[13:37] <gema> apw: it makes more sense to measure from outside the device for idle
[13:37] <apw> gema, all of our real world work loads on a phone is an idle case, esle the phone is not going to work
[13:37] <apw> as is demonstrated by the fact it only has a 2.7 hour battery running full blast
[13:38] <gema> apw: I made use of three processors to dd from urandom to dev/null on that test
[13:38] <gema> apw: I got tired of waiting for the battery to drain over the weekend with lower load
[13:38] <apw> gema, right but as all valid use cases we want to measure, are going to be idle oriented, cause they are UI interaction on a phone, we need something which works in the face of much idleness
[13:38] <apw> else we are simply wasting our time
[13:39] <gema> apw: ack, let me upload the other graphs as well
[13:42] <gema> apw, cking for the second case (longer test case) I was  running http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~gema/+junk/battery-scripts/view/head:/drain.sh
[13:46] <apw> gema, and what is the thickness of the bar there on the voltage/time graph, looks to my 'thumb' to be 5-10% range there which is going to make getting an energy reading hard, right?
[13:47] <gema> apw: yes, it is going to make it a back of the envelope calculation
[13:47] <gema> apw: the sampling interval was 500 ms
[13:47] <apw> gema, and what is the variablity of the charge ?
[13:48] <gema> apw: you mean charge_full?
[13:48] <apw> i am interested in the variablity of both of the charge_now and charge_full values indeed
[13:48] <gema> apw: which graph do you want me to plot, R is hating me at the moment, I am trying to get a boxplot of charge_full
[13:48] <gema> ok, gimme some time to find my R manual and I will get you those
[14:33] <gema> apw: I have added the data for charge_full, not sure how to give you the charge_now one for it to be useful
[14:34] <gema> apw: I am going to fiddle with the data a bit more
[14:34] <gema> apw: I am going to upload the data as well
[14:35] <gema> so that you have it if you want to
[14:35] <gema> use it
[14:39] <apw> soudsn good
[14:39] <apw> gema, but i see your charge_full is as variable as mine, changing by quite some margin
[14:40] <gema> apw: yes
[14:40] <apw> gema, and as i say in my email if you normalise the current_now against the original current_full you get a better result
[14:42] <gema> apw: you mean charge_now against charge_full?
[14:42] <gema> (data uploaded)
[14:42] <apw> yes i mean charge_ in both
[14:42] <gema> apw: ack
[14:44] <gema> apw: are your changes in the n4 images already?
[14:44] <apw> gema, nope, i am waiting on feedback from you on whether they produce anything we could not get with the original
[14:44] <gema> apw: I think they do
[14:44] <gema> apw: we can work out the normalisations later in the dashboard
[14:45] <gema> but for now, for the back of the envelope calculations that pat is asking for this is good
[14:45] <gema> apw: together with the results cking is producing
[14:45] <gema> (which are more accurate)
[14:45] <gema> apw: do you want me to answer to the email?
[14:54] <apw> gema, nope
[14:54] <gema> apw: ok
[15:07] <balloons> smartboyhw, just fyi pics are broken for me too
[15:07] <smartboyhw> balloons, yeah, will fix tmr.
[15:22] <balloons> smartboyhw, once it's fixed I'll link out to it
[15:33] <smartboyhw> balloons, sure.
[15:39] <smartboyhw> balloons, go to smartboyhw.tk/wordpress_smartboyhw and see if you can view it.
[15:39] <balloons> pictures!
[15:39] <balloons> wonderful
[15:40] <smartboyhw> balloons, yay
[15:40] <smartboyhw> bye bye, sleep
[16:05] <elfy> balloons: is there some way that a testcase can be assigned a package version? so that if a package changes it creates some sort of ping against a testcase?
[16:07] <balloons> elfy, hmmm
[16:07] <elfy> I spend hours thinking so things I can ask you :p
[16:12] <balloons> elfy, off the top of my head no
[16:13] <balloons> there is probably a way to make it work, but nothing I can think of at the moment
[16:13] <balloons> and my brain cells are all taken atm
[16:13] <balloons> haha
[16:14] <elfy> :)
[16:15] <elfy> it was just a thought that came to me earlier - could be useful if there is - at least in future when everyone has forgotten all about testcases
[16:39] <balloons> ping knome
[18:35] <Skini151> HI, are your Ubuntu saucy images slow like mine (on VM)?
[18:43] <balloons> Skini151, likely you don't have an accelerated display server for the vm
[18:48] <knome> balloons, hallo
[18:49] <balloons> knome, howdy! So I wanted to chat quickly about your QATracker mockups
[18:49] <knome> sure
[18:49] <balloons> I have on my list from UDS to talk to everyone about the tracker and I'd like to share your mockups as part of that
[18:49] <balloons> I want to see what people think of using it, what would be helpful, etc.. one of the comments was on help links
[18:50] <knome> sure, go ahead
[18:51] <knome> if you need more/better shots i can do them later today
[18:51] <balloons> can you send me the links again?
[18:51] <balloons> :-)
[18:51] <knome> hmph.
[18:52] <knome> let me see where i have the files again
[18:52] <balloons> knome, lol, i can dig up the link again if you don't have it handy
[18:52] <balloons> it's all in the scrollback logs :--)
[18:52] <knome> http://temp.knome.fi/qa/poc-sidebar-submit-2.png
[18:52] <balloons> njin, Letozaf_, evening to you both
[18:52] <knome> there you go
[18:53] <knome> i have a static html file with the modified css on my desktop machine if you want a better/bigger screenshot of that
[18:53] <balloons> ohh can you do a mockup on having the footer text stripped out.. did we have a mockup for the testcase side?
[18:53] <knome> footer text?
[18:54] <balloons> sorry confusing you
[18:54] <Letozaf_> balloons, hello
[18:54] <balloons> the old, if any action fails.. it's in this sidebar now
[18:54] <balloons> I just meant, didn't we have a view of the whole page?
[18:54] <knome> balloons, we didn't, but i can export that for you later today
[18:55] <balloons> knome, perfect. I'll wait on that and then shar eit
[18:55] <balloons> your awesome!
[18:55] <knome> hehe, np :)
[18:58] <knome> balloons, will you be around today and for how long?
[18:59] <balloons> knome, yes, and for about 4 more hours
[18:59] <knome> oki
[18:59] <knome> then i'll catch you today and we can look at the thing together, good good
[19:10] <balloons> Letozaf_, :-) Whew, so much fun stuff
[19:10] <balloons> it just keeps coming
[19:11] <balloons> we just keep going and going
[19:12] <Letozaf_> balloons, what fun stuff ?  I am looking at it again now
[19:18] <Letozaf_> balloons, the fist test it does not run completely but only the first part
[19:19] <Letozaf_> balloons, and the second one gives an error when trying to click on the "New Event" button
[19:20] <balloons> Letozaf_, well I am happy to help have a look with you ;-)
[19:20] <balloons> is it pushed to lp?
[19:20] <Letozaf_> balloons, let me push it now
[19:25] <Letozaf_> balloons, done https://code.launchpad.net/~carla-sella/ubuntu-calendar-app/calendar-for-nicholas
[19:25] <balloons> k, hehe, grabbing it
[19:25] <Letozaf_> balloons, thanks
[19:26] <balloons> k, so the two tests still I see
[19:27]  * balloons runs
[19:27] <Letozaf_> balloons, the first one does only one button click not both
[19:27] <balloons> ok.. let's look at the tests now
[19:28] <balloons> Letozaf_, didn't you see my fixed branch for this?
[19:28] <Skini151> balloons, and what i should do about it?
[19:28] <balloons> I did share that right?
[19:28]  * balloons wonders if I was crazy
[19:29] <balloons> Skini151, install the vbox driver aka "guest additions"
[19:29] <Skini151> install but xwindow manager is not recognized
[19:29] <Letozaf_> balloons, in the calendar.qml file in the toolbaractions part there seems to be missing objectNames
[19:29] <balloons> Letozaf_, indeed: lp:~nskaggs/ubuntu-calendar-app/sdk-emulator-hack
[19:29] <Letozaf_> balloons, but not sure that is the cause as I added them but the errors are still there
[19:30] <Letozaf_> balloons, yes I think I got that branch let me check ...
[19:31] <balloons> Letozaf_, it should have fixed all the silly issues
[19:31] <balloons> Letozaf_, lol I tried, it didn't work, heh
[19:32] <balloons> hmm.. it did when I sent it. I wonder
[19:32] <Letozaf_> balloons, maybe some update
[19:32] <balloons> ohh no, look at that
[19:32] <balloons> the test isn't how I left it
[19:32] <balloons> I didn't give you the right thing I guess
[19:33] <Letozaf_> balloons, oh good at least there is a reason :)
[19:33] <balloons> ahh.. I found my changed branch
[19:33] <balloons> let me share that one
[19:33] <balloons> lololol
[19:34] <Letozaf_> balloons, thanks
[19:34]  * balloons confirms it runs
[19:34] <balloons> indeed :-)
[19:35] <SergioMeneses> elfy ?
[19:35]  * SergioMeneses says hi to everybody
[19:36] <balloons> SergioMeneses, hello :-)
[19:36] <SergioMeneses> balloons, hey! how's everything?
[19:38] <balloons> need a branch name
[19:38] <balloons> hmm
[19:39] <balloons> carla, check out: lp:~nskaggs/ubuntu-calendar-app/carla-fix
[19:39] <balloons> I'm so sorry I didn't send that to you friday. .I worked it out for you :-(
[19:39] <balloons> basically your code just worked
[19:40] <balloons> the only thing you needed was to wait to grab all your fields until after you clicked the 'new event' button and the page loaded
[19:40] <Letozaf_> balloons, doesn't matter I-m going to get in now :-) thanks anyway
[19:40] <SergioMeneses> jajaja
[19:40] <balloons> SergioMeneses, good.. busy and good
[19:40] <balloons> Every cycle I'm so happy at what we can accomplish
[19:41] <balloons> and we keep doing more each time
[19:41] <SergioMeneses> balloons, I'm so busy as well :S but I'm going to participate in this cadence week :D Im updating the isos right now :D
[19:42] <balloons> SergioMeneses, sweet! Yea, I like the weeklong cadence. it lets people work around schedules and still stay invovled
[19:43] <balloons> Letozaf_, pretty cool eh?
[19:43] <SergioMeneses> balloons, our community is growing to fast :D
[19:43] <Letozaf_> balloons, yeah! great! thanks !!!!
[19:43] <balloons> see how I made that one small change?
[19:43] <balloons> everything else is straight your code, lol
[19:43] <Letozaf_> balloons, yes
[19:44] <Letozaf_> balloons, the lambda
[19:44] <Letozaf_> balloons, line
[19:44] <balloons> the create_event_page check?
[19:44] <balloons> yea, that function didn't work, I didn't see why
[19:45] <balloons> SergioMeneses, hehe.. never too fast right? I still know everyone's name, which is an accomplishment for me
[19:45] <balloons> so we're still small enough for that
[19:45] <SergioMeneses> balloons, you're right in that point
[19:51] <balloons> Letozaf_, so I would say you could propose that as-is.. or add more tests to it
[19:51] <balloons> you could ask the developers themselves if you could add an assert to check the new event popup loads
[19:52] <balloons> I'm trying to look, but it's not critical.. if it doesn't pop, you can't get the fields, so it's redudant
[19:52] <Skini151> balloons, here is my screen of ubuntu 13.10 vbox addition errors ( http://screencloud.net/v/lhu9 )
[19:52] <SergioMeneses> ok... I'll be away
[19:52] <balloons> Skini151, loooks ok thus far..
[19:52] <Skini151> look at terminal
[19:53] <balloons> sudo apt-get install linux-headers-$(uname -r)
[19:53] <balloons> you might need those :-)
[19:53] <Letozaf_> balloons, yes I was looking to see if there is soemthing else to add, if you could not get that check work I don't think I will be able too :p
[19:53] <Skini151> ok
[19:53] <Skini151> thanks i'll try
[19:53] <balloons> Letozaf_, yea, as I said it's an assert that isn't needed anyway. So I would just drop it and go as-is
[19:53] <balloons> Noskcaj, howdy
[19:54] <balloons> Skini151, the linux headers are used to compile kernel modules
[19:54] <Noskcaj> morning balloons
[19:54] <balloons> including things like these custom drivers
[19:55] <Skini151> balloons,why this is not installed by default
[19:56] <balloons> Skini151, well most people don't need to do such a thing.. that said, I was surprised it wasn't installed
[19:56] <knome> balloons, http://temp.knome.fi/qa/iso-tracker-mockup.png
[19:57] <knome> balloons, though i think even the download information could be somewhere else
[19:57] <knome> balloons, ...and we should drop the "currently on" -text
[19:57] <knome> balloons, and if the testcase is visible by default, we can also drop the "detailed information" link
[19:59] <knome> balloons, i wonder if the bug list would be more useful if it was presented as a real list (same way previous tests are listed), but i can see that becoming quite a long list for some testcases
[20:00] <balloons> knome, hmm
[20:00] <knome> balloons, that mockup also doesn't really move the "if all actions" -text
[20:01] <knome> balloons, what i actually would like to see is a "detach" button for the submit result/bug areas
[20:01] <knome> balloons, that would simply open a new window with the same stuff with js
[20:01] <balloons> Letozaf_, so let me know what you want to tackle next.. you can get the latest emulator from here always: lp:~nskaggs/+junk/ubuntusdk_autopilot_emulator
[20:02] <knome> (and could simply degrade gracefully, tbe you would still have the form and the bug list, but only as it is shown now)
[20:02] <balloons> knome ok so you re-arranged the layout to have the results on top, followed by bugs. and your wondering about how to display them a bit more sanely
[20:03] <balloons> i agree it could be nicer to have a list
[20:03] <knome> balloons, did you "follow" my suggestion about the detach/popup?
[20:03] <knome> most people have browsers that would support that, and it would be extremely useful
[20:03] <balloons> so in the mockup take out that last paragraph about 'submit' a pass result, submit a failed result
[20:03] <knome> ok
[20:04] <balloons> also we should modify that submit result side to mention bugs a bit more
[20:04] <Letozaf_> balloons, ok let me propose the calendar-app and have a look at what could be next :)
[20:04] <knome> oh, you're right
[20:04] <balloons> and move those links like you said.. the download and detail info link
[20:04] <balloons> also there is a bug link that can appear there
[20:04] <balloons> Letozaf_, awesome :-) I want to keep moving forward on getting all these into jenkins, like the desktop autopilot apps :-)
[20:04] <Skini151> balloons, headers a newest version but there was 2 packages to upgrade, and after all of this is not working i can't install xwindow driver
[20:05] <balloons> knome, let me digest your detach comment for a moment
[20:05] <Letozaf_> balloons, sure it's nice to see all the tests up and working, so I will do as many as I can :)
[20:06] <knome> balloons, just for clarification, it would be an extra feature, not to replace anything
[20:06] <balloons> Letozaf_, <3
[20:06] <balloons> do let me know if you hit anymore snags, but I think each one will get easier as with anything
[20:07] <balloons> knome, ahh ok, makes sense on the detach
[20:07] <knome> balloons, the detached popup could show a "real" list of the bugs, even if the normal view was what we have noe
[20:07] <knome> *now
[20:07] <balloons> so on the bug list, look at this page: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/reports/defects
[20:07] <balloons> I don't think it would be horrid to have that displayed there instead of icons
[20:08] <balloons> could we do something slick to expand it if needed?
[20:08] <knome> that's good-looking, but if you have 30 bugs for the testcase... it can be a bit of a drag.
[20:08] <balloons> knome, yes.. so is there a way to have say up to 5 show, then let me expand the list?
[20:08] <knome> sure, that's possible with js
[20:08] <balloons> even just linking out I guess could work.. I don't think the little icons are useful at all on the page
[20:09] <knome> (those without js would simply see all of them at once)
[20:09] <knome> no, not really
[20:09] <balloons> knome, right, fair enough
[20:09] <knome> the titles are important
[20:09] <knome> also possibly statuses
[20:09] <balloons> the icons are intended for the summary pages so you can "see" at a glance the results
[20:09] <knome> i think the icons could be better too
[20:09] <knome> but i agree
[20:10] <balloons> knome, heh.. we haven't unleashed you yet on the actual artwork and UI.. just the building blocks for the most part
[20:10] <balloons> ok, so the last thing to cover then is the links
[20:10] <balloons> ohh and in the "next" version let's include a mockup with some results.. pass, fail, even a bug :-)
[20:11] <balloons> so we've shown everything
[20:11] <balloons> so the download and bug link -- where should we put those?
[20:11] <balloons> could we have a little box on the left like the submit result?
[20:11] <balloons> or perhaps on the main page
[20:12] <balloons> say the download link at the top of the testcase along with the detailed info link (which we should rename)
[20:12] <balloons> finally the file bug link should go in the 'bugs' section
[20:12] <balloons> knome, what do you think of all that ^^?
[20:12] <knome> let me read and digest - i had to go and see tahiti scoring a goal against nigeria in a football match
[20:12] <knome> what "bug link" are you referring to?
[20:13] <balloons> knome, look here: http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/295/builds/46582/testcases/1515/results
[20:14] <knome> ah, right
[20:14] <balloons> ohh.. and could we visually put that results table into a "results" box like the other boxes we have
[20:14] <balloons> to be consistent
[20:15] <knome> sure
[20:15] <knome> let me work on that
[20:15] <balloons> ok, let's see what all those changes look like..
[20:15] <balloons> I'm excited :-)
[20:16] <Letozaf_> balloons, ok so I proposed to merge, now let me pick something new
[20:17] <Letozaf_> balloons, by the way how do I know if they already have been done ?
[20:17] <knome> balloons, don't hold your breath... this might take a while ;)
[20:18] <Letozaf_> balloons, is this updated: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/CoreApps/Testing
[20:21] <Noskcaj> balloons, you need to create https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Cadence/Saucy/Week2 if you're going to link to it
[20:21] <balloons> Noskcaj, indeed :) I usually make them right before the week begins to incorporate any changes
[20:22] <Noskcaj> balloons, ok. i was asking since you've put fillet text in ll the others
[20:22] <balloons> Letozaf_, use the bugs and mark yourself assigned to them
[20:22] <Letozaf_> balloons, ok fine
[20:22] <balloons> same way you would with anything else.. you can use the link from that wiki to see all the bugs
[20:23] <balloons> Noskcaj, ahh you mean on the main page all those links are broken
[20:23] <balloons> yea, I get that, heh
[20:23] <balloons> so Letozaf_ https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone-coreapps/+bugs?field.tag=needs-autopilot-test is the full ist
[20:24] <balloons> or see this page and select an app; https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/CoreApps/Testing; like for instance calendar https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-calendar-app/+bugs?field.tag=needs-autopilot-test
[20:24] <balloons> so you should mark yourself on those calendar needed tests and we'll get them complete :-)
[20:24] <balloons> Letozaf_, ^^
[20:26] <Letozaf_> balloons, cool :p
[20:27] <Letozaf_> balloons, well look like also the calendar app has still quite a lot bugs open
[20:29] <balloons> Letozaf_, indeed you could keep going there
[20:38] <Letozaf_> balloons, I was looking at the calendar app, I see that editing an event is not implemented yet
[20:39] <Letozaf_> balloons, so maybe I should just pick another app instead of continuing with this one, what do you think ?
[20:39] <balloons> Letozaf_, you may find some like that as they are still in development
[20:39] <balloons> so some of the "bugs" for tests might not be possible yet
[20:40] <balloons> Letozaf_, sure we need a basic testcase for every app
[20:40] <balloons> that's the best way to start as you know :-)
[20:40] <Letozaf_> balloons ok fine
[20:42] <knome> balloons, http://temp.knome.fi/qa/iso-tracker-mockup-2.png
[20:42] <knome> balloons, something like that?
[20:42] <knome> balloons, (for the sidebar part)
[20:44] <balloons> knome, yes I like that
[20:44] <balloons> makes better sense there on the side right?
[20:45] <knome> pretty much yeah
[20:45] <knome> we might want to rework that graphically
[20:45] <balloons> ohh well, wait actually
[20:45] <balloons> dodm
[20:45] <knome> yes? :)
[20:45] <balloons> didn't we say to skip that and put the links in the sections instead
[20:46] <balloons> so bug reporting to the bugs sections
[20:46] <balloons> download link into the testcase
[20:46] <knome> we still need to advertise the download link
[20:46] <knome> hmm
[20:46] <knome> not sure about that
[20:46] <balloons> and the detailed info also in the testcase
[20:46] <balloons> or?
[20:46] <knome> the download link should stand up
[20:46] <balloons> I like how it stands out on the side
[20:46] <knome> i was even thinking if we could simply show *all* the links as they are in the page
[20:46] <balloons> they would get lost in the sections.. right
[20:46] <Letozaf_> balloons, I took a look at the weather-app, just to see how it works ... maybe I will pick this one, anyway I will continue tomorrow, night for now
[20:47] <balloons> Letozaf_, kk.. enjoy!
[20:47] <Letozaf_> balloons, sure :)
[20:47] <balloons> Letozaf_, ohh I saw someone else take some bugs on weather app
[20:47] <knome> balloons, so to be more exact, put this: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/269/builds/43002/downloads list on the sidebar
[20:47] <balloons> did you see?
[20:47] <Letozaf_> balloons, ok, so I will pick something else, then :p
[20:47] <balloons> knome, ohh, you want that on the sidebar?
[20:47] <balloons> Letozaf_, ;p
[20:47] <knome> balloons, that doesn't work for r/zsync obviously, but having the http link there directly would be helpful
[20:48] <Letozaf_> balloons, doesn't matter, there are a lot to pick from
[20:48] <knome> balloons, and gpg/md5
[20:48] <balloons> knome, don't forget it becomes installation instructions for packages so; http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/294/builds/46580/downloads and http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/271/builds/46558/downloads is more invovled
[20:49] <knome> hmm, right
[20:49] <balloons> let's leave it as a link for now, but I agree something to consider
[20:49] <knome> that's a good point
[20:50] <balloons> you could use an apt:// link for packages and http:// for images :-)
[20:50] <balloons> but you still need the seperate page
[20:50] <knome> yeah, but even then it's not that straightforward in all cases
[20:50] <knome> there's no zsync:// ;)
[20:50] <balloons> right..
[20:50] <balloons> :-)
[20:50] <knome> (could be!)
[20:50] <balloons> hehe
[20:50] <balloons> so links on the side.. I think we beat that to death
[20:50] <knome> anyway, what do you think
[20:50] <balloons> looks good
[20:51] <knome> lets drop the visual "testcase" wrapper
[20:51] <knome> same for bugs
[20:51] <balloons> hmm ok why?
[20:51] <knome> rather than try to put the reported tests into one as well
[20:51] <balloons> you want to simplify the page
[20:51] <knome> the testcase wrapper is surplus
[20:52] <knome> there's no reason to have that and the gray box
[20:52] <balloons> kk..
[20:52] <balloons> do it ;-)
[20:52] <knome> it could just be on the page
[20:52] <knome> ok, let's see how that works out...
[20:52] <balloons> I'm convinced.. less is more
[20:53] <knome> so basically: http://temp.knome.fi/qa/iso-tracker-mockup-3.png for the testcase text
[20:54] <knome> we should also allow headers for the testcases
[20:54] <knome> so we could make the different sections stand up more
[20:54] <balloons> ok small nitpicking tweaks on the sidebar since we're editing it.. I've always disliked the critical bugs and bugs boxes.. could we make it so the descriptions are above the boxes?
[20:54] <knome> sure! :)
[20:54] <balloons> anything else to clean up those confusing boxes?
[20:54] <balloons> can we moved the boxes under failed and passed?
[20:55] <balloons> aka if you passed the testcase and found a bug you put it into the "bugs" box
[20:55] <balloons> if you failed the testcase and found a bug it goes in the "critical bugs" box
[20:55] <knome> though you can fail a test and have a non-critical bug as well
[20:56] <balloons> not according to the definition.. well.. I mean sure
[20:56] <balloons> but eh.. I know people get confused by it, so ..
[20:56] <knome> you can find a non-critical bug *as well*
[20:56] <balloons> yes yes, your right
[20:56] <knome> one option is to simply drop the other input.
[20:56] <knome> then if the test is passed, all are non-critical
[20:56] <balloons> yea, only have one box.. exactly
[20:56] <knome> if the test is failed, all are critical
[20:57] <balloons> yep, that's where I was going with my thoughts
[20:57] <knome> worksforme
[20:57] <balloons> I think it's just saner
[20:57] <balloons> people can't bug triage
[20:57] <balloons> shouldn't need to on the submission form, heh
[20:57] <balloons> ok, so on the box removal
[20:58] <balloons> how do I know this is the testcase now?
[20:58] <balloons> I guess I'll wait to see the results with the testcase, some example results and example bugs listed out
[20:58] <knome> i would think that's obvious, but we can add a header if you don't think it is
[20:58] <balloons> well, we should see what it all looks like when it's done
[20:58] <knome> or, alternatively we could change the "page title"
[20:59] <balloons> your right.. it may be quite obvious
[20:59] <knome> " Desktop (Xubuntu) in Xubuntu Desktop amd64 for Saucy Daily " --> " Testcase for Desktop (Xubuntu) in Xubuntu Desktop amd64 for Saucy Daily "
[20:59] <knome> or sth
[20:59] <knome> but i'd expect people to understand that's the testcase
[21:00] <knome> let me add some "results"
[21:01] <balloons> ;-) don't forget all the little ui elements.. machines, comments, bugs :-)
[21:02] <knome> yeah yeah, i'm copying the html from a random testcase page ;)
[21:05] <knome> http://temp.knome.fi/qa/iso-tracker-mockup-4.png
[21:06] <balloons> cool, cool, looking good
[21:06] <knome> see how i also joined the two tables (pass/fail) - i don't think there's any reason to repeat the headers and have two tables
[21:06] <knome> it's clear enough with the icons
[21:06] <balloons> yes.. there's 2 tables?
[21:07] <balloons> I should get a before and after comparision
[21:07] <knome> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/269/builds/43002/testcases/1301/results
[21:07] <knome> that's the "before"
[21:07] <balloons> wow, indeed
[21:07] <balloons> heh.. yea.. this is gonna be cool to see
[21:07] <balloons> wow, what a difference
[21:07] <balloons> wow.. hands done
[21:08] <balloons> *down..
[21:08] <balloons> ok, so now to the bugs
[21:12] <knome> yes, let's see...
[21:13] <knome> balloons, at the simplest... http://temp.knome.fi/qa/iso-tracker-mockup-5.png
[21:14] <balloons> Hmm, not too bad.. I too was thinking some div lines would work out fine
[21:15] <balloons> do we want to shade the test instructions as before?
[21:15] <knome> shade as in what?
[21:15] <balloons> I want to see the bugs listed out, see if it keeps the page sane still
[21:15] <balloons> knome, shade the background behind the text
[21:15] <knome> oh
[21:15] <knome> i don't think that's needed
[21:15] <knome> but we can if you think that would be better
[21:16] <knome> allowing the headers would make the testcases more readable
[21:18] <knome> http://temp.knome.fi/qa/iso-tracker-mockup-6.png for a really quick mockup with the bugs list
[21:19] <knome> what if we added another page ala download information for "bug information" ?
[21:19] <knome> with the full list of bugs
[21:20] <knome> would that draw attention away from the bugs?
[21:20] <balloons> knome, yea what if it listed just the most recent bugs?
[21:20] <knome> or just the critical ones?
[21:20] <balloons> I really like this end result
[21:21] <knome> listing just the recent bugs i don't know - i don't know what kind of information the tracker stores in its cache or if it would be easy to show only the latest bugs
[21:21] <balloons> so the subtext about list of bugs reported.. can you add the link there?
[21:21] <balloons> yea, I think most recent would be easy to do, hence the suggestion
[21:21] <knome> what subtext?
[21:21] <knome> oh, right
[21:21] <knome> yes
[21:21] <balloons> 'list of bugs that were previously reported'
[21:22] <knome> hmm, that
[21:22] <balloons> 'list of bugs that were recently? reported'. For a full list of bugs previouly reported, click here.
[21:22] <knome> mhm
[21:22] <balloons> something like that.. and include the link in the sidebar too
[21:22] <balloons> or, can we have it expand like we said?
[21:23] <knome> sure, but i'm wondering which one is more useful
[21:23]  * balloons hates links
[21:23] <knome> opening a new window/tab or showing them all
[21:23] <balloons> also there is an issue with making more links in django I believe
[21:23] <knome> the point is that you probably want to look at the bugs list as you go through the testcase
[21:23] <knome> and you should have them side by side
[21:24] <balloons> well you want to look at it if something breaks during the case presumably
[21:24] <knome> mhm
[21:24] <knome> that's why i proposed to show the critical links
[21:24] <knome> err, critical bugs :)
[21:24] <balloons> and you'll want to glance at the recent reports beforehand so you know what to expect
[21:24] <knome> let me work on another mockup
[21:24] <balloons> kk
[21:30] <knome> http://temp.knome.fi/qa/iso-tracker-mockup-7.png
[21:31] <knome> for me, that makes most sense
[21:31] <knome> critical could be LP critical
[21:31] <knome> not necessarily a bug in a "failed" result
[21:31] <knome> (but could be *both*)
[21:38] <knome> brb
[21:38] <knome> balloons, ping if you're in your own worlds ^ :)
[21:38] <balloons> knome, hehe. thank you
[21:38] <balloons> I was grabbing a bite to eat
[21:39] <balloons> mm, kk.. Yes, I think that makes sense
[21:39] <balloons> and yes it would be from the LP perspective
[21:39] <balloons> knome, Also, we should add the full bug list to the sidebar links don't you think?
[21:41] <knome> http://temp.knome.fi/qa/iso-tracker-mockup-8.png for a tweaked sidebar (not what you just asked)
[21:41] <knome> but yeah, that could be useful there as well
[21:44] <balloons> Ohh nice
[21:44] <balloons> you could mention looking for duplicate bugs and provide the link?
[21:45] <knome> hmm
[21:45] <balloons> thinking thinking, hehe
[21:45] <knome> maybe we should add a (?) -icon next to the bugs -header and link that to a "help" page
[21:46] <knome> it's becoming crowded already
[21:47] <knome> let me mockup that.
[21:50] <balloons> knome, I was thinking something similar
[21:50] <knome> balloons, http://temp.knome.fi/qa/iso-tracker-mockup-9.png
[21:50] <balloons> we have wiki pages on how to file bugs, etc
[21:50] <balloons> great.. so I think we've iterated on this quite a bit
[21:51] <balloons> so we'll hangon to the old drafts just in case, but I'd like to share this #9 mockup
[21:51] <knome> definitely
[21:54] <balloons> just for reference, look at the before again :-) http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/269/builds/43002/testcases/1301/results
[21:54] <knome> i know i know!
[21:55] <knome> that is a bit confusing to say the least
[21:55] <balloons> knome, gut check time. Let's say we wanted to do this, do you think you could work with stephane and make it happen? We haven't gone off the deep end anywhere have we?
[21:55] <knome> i definitely would
[21:55] <knome> and could :)
[21:56] <knome> as long as we make him find some time to work on it... ;)
[21:56] <balloons> k, perfect. To the mailing list!
[21:56] <balloons> I think he would for this
[21:56] <balloons> :-)
[21:56] <knome> me too, but scheduling still isn't easy!
[21:56] <balloons> he would have help, that's always motivating
[21:56] <knome> sure
[21:58] <balloons> knome, ohh.. I'm going to repush this to imgur or something so as not to burn your poor server bandwidth ok?
[21:59] <knome> well it's hosted somewhere else, so bandwidth doesn't really matter too much
[22:00] <knome> but imgur might be still better
[22:00] <balloons> :-)
[22:00] <knome> i'm looking a bit for better icons :)
[22:05] <balloons> old: http://imgur.com/R9PIh55
[22:05] <balloons> new: http://imgur.com/VSMLYnM
[22:05]  * knome giggles with his 'newer' version
[22:06] <balloons> hmm.. I should include the add result piece too
[22:06]  * balloons makes a new 'old' version
[22:06] <knome> heh
[22:07] <knome> are you combining them by hand?
[22:07] <balloons> if you can do it better, please :-)
[22:07] <knome> install web devel extension to FF, press shift+f2 and type 'screenshot --fullpage filename.png'
[22:07] <balloons> :-)
[22:07] <balloons> didn't know they could do that
[22:07] <knome> that will take a shot of the full page
[22:07] <knome> sure they can! ;)
[22:08] <balloons> epicness..
[22:08] <balloons> ugh, it failed on the header tho
[22:08] <knome> it does... unfortunately
[22:09] <knome> meh :)
[22:09] <balloons> I'll just edit that out
[22:10] <balloons> cool, one sec
[22:19] <balloons> old: http://imgur.com/OMaUwID
[22:19] <balloons> knome, ^^ you can kind of see the black line, but meh, I didn't go nuts editing it out
[22:20] <knome> good enough
[22:20] <balloons> lol perfect.. kk
[22:20] <balloons> have a pleasant evening
[22:20] <balloons> and thank you!
[22:21] <knome> one more teaser mockup
[22:21] <knome> http://temp.knome.fi/qa/iso-tracker-mockup-10.png
[22:21] <knome> better icons, eh?
[22:21] <balloons> clipboard is nicer
[22:21] <balloons> you didn't like the bug icon? lol
[22:21] <knome> there's not really a good-looking bug icon
[22:21] <balloons> it makes more sense as red and yellow? dots
[22:21] <knome> yeah
[22:22] <knome> yellow-orangeish
[22:22] <knome> don't know about sense
[22:22] <balloons> want to add one in there?
[22:22] <balloons> :p
[22:22] <knome> but a green bug.. is there a "good" bug? :P
[22:22] <knome> sure, just a sec
[22:22] <balloons> ohh and the machine icon
[22:22] <balloons> remember that one too.. put something for it :-)
[22:22] <balloons> you can see it herE: http://imgur.com/OMaUwID
[22:22] <knome> ok, just a sec
[22:22] <balloons> hehe
[22:23] <knome> let me find a way to hack the bug column...
[22:26] <knome> do you think it made sense to combine the machine/details columns?
[22:26] <knome> just thinking aloud...
[22:27] <knome> and/or move machine and "last update" to the right hand side
[22:27] <knome> balloons, ^
[22:27] <balloons> machine and details columns?
[22:28] <balloons> ohh I see reordering them for importance?
[22:28] <knome> well that
[22:28] <knome> and wondering if "machine" really needs its own column
[22:28] <knome> could just group with the details and the last update date
[22:29] <knome> or what do you think?
[22:31] <balloons> group it with the reporter makes more sense
[22:31] <balloons> if you want to drop the column
[22:31] <knome> the machine?
[22:31] <balloons> yea
[22:31] <knome> what about grouping the date with "details"?
[22:32] <balloons> I can see re-arranging, but i'm unsure of why you want to group so much :-)
[22:32] <balloons> are the details the comments column?
[22:32] <knome> would leave more horizontal space for the comment, and possible more vertical space as a consequence of having less lines
[22:32] <knome> no, the one in the right-hand side with the clipboard icon
[22:34] <knome> oh, oh, this is sexy
[22:38] <balloons> knome, alright.. show me what you got
[22:38] <knome> hehe, sure
[22:39] <knome> http://temp.knome.fi/qa/iso-tracker-mockup-11.png
[22:41] <balloons> ohh.. ok
[22:41] <balloons> sexy
[22:43] <balloons> I like it
[22:43] <knome> http://temp.knome.fi/qa/iso-tracker-mockup-12.png
[22:43] <knome> a bit better alignment
[22:43] <knome> (see the right-hand side)
[22:43] <balloons> yea I see the change right off
[22:43] <balloons> vertical space is better
[22:43] <knome> yeah, one line less because there is more space horizontally
[22:44] <knome> why i wanted to look at combining columns in the first place
[22:44] <balloons> I get it now :-)
[22:44] <knome> it wouldn't be completely importance-first, but what do you think of switching the bugs and comment columsn?
[22:44] <knome> *columns
[22:45] <balloons> normally there aren't any comments, so probably bugs first
[22:45] <knome> ok
[22:45] <balloons> btw, I think that satifies my 'recent bugs' idea
[22:45] <balloons> the recent bugs are listed in there :-)
[22:45] <knome> heh
[22:45] <balloons> albeit with the hover requirement
[22:45] <knome> yeah
[22:46] <knome> there should be an easy way to see those
[22:46] <knome> i've always disliked the hovering
[22:46] <balloons> turning knome's wheel's again
[22:46] <balloons> yes me too
[22:46] <knome> you never get a good glance of the bugs
[22:47] <knome> anyway, i think we could have both "recent bugs" and "critical bugs"
[22:47] <knome> (and i imagine it's easier to mock that up with the real stuff that editing the html ;))
[22:47] <balloons> is it worth committing the space to it?.. maybe shrink comments down and put the bugs in there?
[22:47] <knome> how to list the bugs?
[22:48] <knome> i think there should only be one bug per line
[22:48] <balloons> ohh right, that kills it
[22:48] <balloons> they do need to stay in the report section for sanity sake I think though
[22:48] <knome> yu
[22:48] <knome> *yup too
[22:48] <balloons> ok, well.. hehe, you know what's next right?
[22:48] <knome> tell me ;)
[22:49] <balloons> the other screens
[22:49] <knome> heh
[22:49] <balloons> err pages
[22:49] <knome> that's true
[22:49] <balloons> I'm thinking of the worst offenders tho
[22:49] <balloons> most are fairly ok
[22:49] <knome> they are relatively good
[22:49] <knome> that's what i'm thinking
[22:50] <balloons> mm.. the page I was thinking of seems ok too
[22:50] <balloons> i was thinking of the history page, but it's ok now too
[22:50] <balloons> so.. yea, I'm going to roll with #12 then
[22:50] <knome> the testcase page is where most people use most of their time
[22:51] <balloons> yep
[22:51] <balloons> http://imgur.com/UCyuoZk
[22:51] <knome> yay
[22:51] <balloons> ohh.. when I mention the mockups, shall I use your real name, or 'knome' or something elsE?
[22:51] <knome> whatever you usually do
[22:52] <balloons> I believe I've used your name and linked to your site :-)
[22:52] <knome> that's fine
[22:52] <balloons> perfect
[22:53] <knome> re: the critical bugs listing...
[22:53] <knome> we might want to think if we need to explain the bug statuses
[22:54] <balloons> I would link and defer to launchpad for that
[22:54] <knome> eg. if something is 'fix released', we should make people understand that they should expect it being actually fixed
[22:54] <knome> in the daily images
[22:55] <balloons> ahh, yes that's correct
[22:55] <knome> once we get as far as having all this layout stuff fixed
[22:55] <balloons> indeed
[22:55] <knome> i shall work with stephane some more and add a button to the bugs list
[22:55] <knome> that automatically adds that bug number to the bugs field
[22:55] <balloons> ok late for me.. time to run. I'll post this tomorrow along with a little survey for people to give feedback (on the qatracker in general). this will be a little bonus surprise
[22:56] <knome> goodie :)
[22:56] <knome> see you later and have fun/good night
[22:56] <balloons> indeed, you too
[22:56] <balloons> I think people are going to love this
[22:56] <knome> i hope people will run more xubuntu tests after this ;)
[22:57] <balloons> knome, that's the idea. I know some people don't use the tracker, and we want to encourage 100% participation in it.. including doing things to make it nicer and more pleasant to use so you want to use it :-)
[22:57] <knome> one more commment...
[22:58] <knome> rather than detaching bug and all that stuff, let's make the testcase instructions detachable
[22:58] <balloons> having bug lists and test history is one example of how it can help someone who's testing
[22:58] <knome> but that's for after we've done all this layout stuff too
[22:59] <balloons> knome, I agree.. the testcase itself would be nice to be in it's own window if you prefer to consume it that way while testing
[22:59] <knome> with that change, i think it might be fine to make the bugs list expandable to the page
[23:00] <balloons> ahh.. indeed that would be nice
[23:00] <balloons> ok, really gotta run.. literally, overdue for my run :-)
[23:00] <balloons> it's getting dark, hehe
[23:00] <knome> hehe
[23:00] <knome> yeah, it's a bit dark here as well (2am)
[23:00] <knome> ttyl! :)
[23:01] <balloons> ty ty ty knome!
[23:01] <knome> np
[23:01]  * balloons hands knome a shiny balloon
[23:01]  * knome bows
[23:01] <knome> oooo


[19:23] <ahammond> I have a program I want to run in a loop, sleeping about 10 seconds between each run. What is the correct way to do this? Should I have a script section that has a while true; do foo; sleep 10; done?
[20:04] <JanC> ahammond: I don't think you should implement that in an upstart script...
[20:05] <ahammond> JanC: what is the recommended method?
[20:09] <JanC> well, if it's just something ad-hoc, you could do it in the upstart job definition, I guess
[20:10] <JanC> but it feels a bit ugly when the service is written inside the job configuration  ;)
[20:19] <ahammond> I can extend the program to include a looping aspect. Shouldn't be that difficult.
[22:24] <ahammond> so, how do I achieve the pattern of "run, wait a bit, run again…"?
[22:24] <ahammond> I looked in to daemonizing the script and I'd rather not do it that way.