[06:28] <Trae> troy_s, sorry...
[06:29] <Trae> troy_s, I'm about to head to bed.
[06:29] <Trae> sup bud?
[06:50] <tomveens> hello
[10:39] <Snake> Can anyone help me interprete the GPL and its useage with icons?
[10:40] <kwwii> Snake: sure, what do you need to know?
[10:40] <Snake> am I clear to use GPLed icons on "for-profit" websites, also, if I were to use them on my site, how can I do it legally
[10:40] <Snake> what would I need to make avalible
[10:42] <kwwii> Snake: the thing is this: there is a big problem with releasing pixmaps per gpl, as it is unclear what the "source" is
[10:42] <Snake> Yea thats what I dont follow about it
[10:42] <Snake> kwwii, I just want to use a few icons on kde-look that are released under GPL, but I don't want to break the law doing it
[10:44] <kwwii> Snake: until now, we have dealt with this situation by saying "yes, you can use the icons, but you should include some pointer to where you got them from, be it the author, the website, etc.
[10:44] <msikma> It doesn't matter whether it's for profit, as long as "the source" is available. The FSF sells its software too.
[10:44] <kwwii> striclty speaking, you can simply use them
[10:44] <kwwii> msikma: yeah, but what is source in a pixmap?
[10:45] <Snake> Thats what I mean, how would I allow the source
[10:45] <kwwii> crystal, for instance has practically no svgs
[10:45] <Snake> I dont think the svg is really the source
[10:45] <msikma> I believe that a lossless original version of the icon would then be in order.
[10:45] <kwwii> Snake: well, if there is no svg's then either the icons cannot really be licensed under the gpl, or the pixmap is the source
[10:45] <Snake> hmm
[10:45] <msikma> E.g. if you implement the icon in some way, such as in a layout, you'd need to make a transparent 32-bit PNG available as well, as that's closest to a "source" as possible.
[10:46] <kwwii> msikma: well, you really only need to point the person to the source
[10:46] <msikma> You're right
[10:46] <Snake> msikma, their just small icons next to text, all people need to do is save image as... and thats about as much source as I had
[10:46] <Snake> Ill link back to whatever I can though
[10:46] <msikma> Well, then there's nothing to worry about, I guess
[10:46] <kwwii> Snake: I am sure that that will be good enough
[10:47] <kwwii> Snake: which icons are you using?
[10:47] <kwwii> perhaps I know the author
[10:47] <kwwii> I have dealt with this situation with quite a few different icon theme authors :p
[10:47] <kwwii> some flip out, most don't
[10:49] <Snake> kwwii, The crystal icons
[10:51] <kwwii> Snake: cool, you do not have to worry then, I have dealt with several lawyers concerning this...there is no problem...although they really appreciate it if you post a link to the "source"
[10:51] <Snake> ok :)
[10:51] <kwwii> Snake: the crystal icons were developed under contract to several diffferent companies (one of them my previous employer)
[10:52] <Snake> Wasnt it for linspire?
[10:52] <kwwii> so no worries
[10:52] <Snake> iirc?
[10:52] <kwwii> well, yes, the did pay as well...but I worked for suse (I was everaldo's boss)
[10:52] <kwwii> and I actually made quite a few of them myself
[10:52] <Snake> ah i see
[10:53] <Snake> intresting
[10:54] <Snake> kwwii, Could I have your name please? (I'm just trying to assume my legal status here to my investors without having to hire a lawyer)
[10:54] <Snake> assure**
[10:54] <Snake> not assume*
[10:54] <kwwii> once oxygen is out, you might want to use that instead :-)
[10:54] <Snake> :-)
[10:54] <kwwii> Snake: Kenneth Wimer
[10:54] <Snake> Oh yea Ill definatly look into that, it looks like a beautiful icon set
[10:55] <Snake> kwwii, Thanks a ton :-)
[10:55] <kwwii> Snake: just remeber to include a link to the "source", ok?
[10:55] <kwwii> that is important
[10:55] <Snake> im assuming the source would be everaldo's site?
[10:55] <Snake> or what?
[10:55] <kwwii> Snake: it could simply be a link to the kde sources
[10:56] <kwwii> or a link to the source on kde-look
[10:56] <kwwii> but you need to make sure that the link does not "go bad"
[10:56] <Snake> oh ok
[10:56] <Snake> ya thats what I was worried about
[10:56] <kwwii> in the end, it is totally unclear if you can even license pixmaps as gpl
[10:57] <kwwii> but as long as they come licensed that way, and you point to some archive where the originals could be found
[10:57] <kwwii> I mean, if you use the oribinal icons without changing them in any way, then the ones you include are "source"
[10:57] <kwwii> s/oribinal/original
[10:58] <Snake> okay great
[10:58] <kwwii> to be honest, lots of sites have been using them for a long time and nothing has ever happened, even if they did not link to any source
[10:58] <kwwii> but I suggest doing so in some way, if possible to avoid any possible problems
[10:59] <kwwii> :p
[10:59] <Snake> hehehe
[10:59] <Snake> kwwii, I just wanted to verify so I have a somewhat stable case to present
[10:59] <Snake> Too easy to simply say your someone else you know?
[10:59] <kwwii> yeah, it should not be a big problem
[10:59] <kwwii> hehe
[11:00] <kwwii> unfortunately, lot's of people know me
[11:00] <kwwii> as I am kde art maintainer
[11:01] <Snake> ah intresting
[11:04] <Snake> kwwii, I am so glad I found you, no one else could give me a 100% sure answer
[11:05] <kwwii> Snake: glad I could be of help
[11:05] <Snake> I'll see you aroun
[11:05] <Snake> d
[11:05] <Snake> keep up the good work :-)
[11:05] <kwwii> thanks :-)
[11:05] <Snake> thanks again
[11:05] <Snake> ooo wait
[11:05] <Snake> kwwii, Is there a timeframe on when oxygen will be out??
[11:05] <Snake> I cant wait, the previews are awesome
[11:06] <kwwii> Snake: there will be a release within a month or so
[11:07] <kwwii> we do have them in svn now, but with no license, so nobody can really use them
[11:07] <kwwii> in an official way
[11:07] <kwwii> soon that will change and they will all be gpl
[11:07] <kwwii> and we *do* have svgs
[11:07] <kwwii> :-)
[11:07] <Snake> Hmmm so again
[11:07] <Snake> How does one GPL a icon
[11:07] <Snake> :-P
[11:07] <Snake> Someone should really look into that
[11:07] <kwwii> well, the svg is the source
[11:07] <kwwii> and the pixmap is the binary
[11:08] <Snake> perhaps write a GPL compatible license for pixmaps and whatnot
[11:08] <Snake> ah yea thats true enough
[11:08] <kwwii> one thing....
[11:08] <Snake> ?
[11:08] <kwwii> you should note that the new crystal icons are released from linspire under a funky license
[11:08] <kwwii> not sure if they changed that
[11:09] <Snake> hmm
[11:09] <kwwii> we had several lawyers send the emails asking them to change it
[11:09] <kwwii> becuase many of the icons are from the original crystal set
[11:09] <Snake> kwwii, how could I get into the svn for this? Id like to browse them, just to check them out
[11:09] <kwwii> Snake: with a web browser, one second, I'll find the link
[11:11] <kwwii> http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/playground/artwork/Oxygen/theme/
[11:11] <Snake> Thanks :-)
[11:11] <kwwii> no problem
[11:12] <Snake> Now would I be allowed to use these on my personal PC or no?
[11:12] <kwwii> yes, you can use them on your pc
[11:13] <Snake> ooo neat
[11:13] <kwwii> in fact, there is a script that will build a theme in my directory (one level up from that link)
[11:13] <Snake> KDE Art devs have mad skills
[11:13] <kwwii> you need inkscape and imagemagick
[11:14] <Snake> na thats alright, i'm not in linux at the moment, but my rocketdock really needs a make over
[11:14] <kwwii> heheh
[11:14] <kwwii> :-)
[11:14] <Snake> KDE4 needs to hurry up as well, but I fear when its released it will break beryl :-(
[11:14] <kwwii> I hope you enjoy them :-)
[11:14] <Snake> I will for sure :-)
[11:14] <kwwii> I cannot wait for kde4
[11:15] <kwwii> I wish it would finally come in line
[11:15] <Snake> hehehe
[11:15] <Snake> Have they made any major visual changes yet? last I herd they were getting everything to qt4
[11:16] <kwwii> actually, yes, we have started a few very interesting new file interaction ideas
[11:17] <Snake> awesine
[11:17] <Snake> awesome*
[11:18] <Snake> Right now i've been using gnome, mainly because compiz had better support for it at the time, and just havn't changed back, when KDE4 comes about, I definatly got to give it another look.
[11:18] <Snake> I like KDE it self, but, atleast to me, it seems many of the apps that go along with it have a lot of bugs
[11:18] <Snake> Thought I guess i'd expect it with the number of options they offer
[11:19] <kwwii> Snake: the neat thing about kde4 is that because of qt4, we have amazing abilities within programs that will make a big difference in user experience even without compiz
[11:19] <kwwii> although the compiz stuff is pretty amazing
[11:19] <Snake> I hear beryl has better KDE support than compiz did/does
[11:19] <Snake> but I havn't the time to check into it
[11:21] <kwwii> yeah, it does
[11:21] <kwwii> but who knows what will prove to be the "best" solution in the long run
[11:22] <Snake> I do! I do!
[11:22] <Snake> Project Looking glass!
[11:22] <Snake> :-)
[11:23] <kwwii> lol
[11:23] <Snake> I'll never understand what opted them to build a window manager on java technology
[11:24] <kwwii> yeah, no doubt
[11:24] <kwwii> I think it was more about publicity
[11:25] <Snake> Perhaps
[11:25] <kwwii> the linux that sun used was suse...I did a lot of art stuff for sun while I worked at suse
[11:28] <kwwii> I am not sure if sun knows their ass from a hole in the wall
[11:28] <kwwii> although they did open source open firmware
[11:31] <kwwii> anyway....time for a movie
[11:32] <Snake> alright hehe
[11:32] <Snake> Have fun
[11:32] <Snake> thanks again man, cya


[01:27] <pleia2> sent off wiki to editors, need to do the stats still but that'll just have to wait until later (getting ready to go out now)
[01:29] <pleia2> and got natty EOL on the fridge (nhandler's script for doing this rocks!)
[02:51] <JoseeAntonioR> pleia2: should I make the call for instructors today or tomorrow? (will it be too much work for the UWN?)
[03:09] <JoseeAntonioR> will post and x-post to the fridge tomorrow
[05:35] <pleia2> JoseeAntonioR: it's after the cutoff for UWN anyway (00:00 UTC) so any time is fine
[06:32] <bkerensa> :d
[06:37] <pleia2> bkerensa: re: ubuntu oregon, I'd rather have the free kittens <3
[06:37] <bkerensa> You are not in my target demographic anyways ;)
[06:37] <pleia2> hehe
[06:37] <bkerensa> I am looking to convert windows users :)
[06:37]  * bkerensa doesn't bother with macphiles
[06:38] <pleia2> half the team going to ghana are mac people, but they are happily learning edubuntu :)
[06:39] <pleia2> the lead of our team just started exposure to ubuntu in May, and the other woman he works with is a teacher by trade who got in contact with the non-profit via the mac lab they supported
[06:39] <pleia2> so only 2 of us are sysadmins (myself and Beth Lynn Eicher)
[06:39] <pleia2> also, it makes me grin like crazy that we're both women
[06:57] <dholbach> good morning
[18:10] <pleia2_> The new edition of the Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter is now available here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue283
[18:20] <Unit193> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/09/ubuntu-12-10-login-screen-adds-remote-desktop-accessl and https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-news-team/2012-September/001634.htm
[18:22] <pleia2> :(
[18:24] <pleia2> alright, fixed everywhere except email
[21:37] <JoseeAntonioR> ok, posting OpenWeek announcement now
[21:38] <JoseeAntonioR> pleia2: all posts from the classroom blog are posted to the planet?
[21:59] <JoseeAntonioR> ok, Fridge post submitted for review
[21:59] <JoseeAntonioR> oops, tags and categories missing
[22:00] <JoseeAntonioR> ok, done now


[12:13] <Keybuk> http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=1137422377&context=set-72157601482712397&size=o
[12:14] <Keybuk> ^ I like that pic; and I've flown three of them so far :)
[12:15] <ogra> at the same time ? :P
[12:15] <Keybuk> no :)
[12:15] <ogra> :)
[12:15] <ogra> nice :)
[12:16] <Keybuk> flown Tango Oscar (the orange one at the back), and Victor Victor & Victor November (two of the tree at the front)
[12:16] <sladen> Keybuk: when you've collected all seven, you can move on to borrowing mark's
[12:16] <Keybuk> sladen: no, I *really* can't :p
[12:16] <Keybuk> I dread to think the amount of training needed to fly a Global
[12:17] <ogra> cant marks polit train you during business flights ? you just need to change your name to "claire" and become PA :)
[12:17] <ogra> *pilot
[12:18] <sladen> could have learnt the preflight by heart if you'd been paying attention next to the pool in Sevilla
[12:18] <ogra> heh
[12:18] <Keybuk> ogra: not sure, I think for jets you need certain numbers of hours and ratings, not to mention simulator hours, until you're even allowed to sit in the seat
[12:19] <Keybuk> sladen: I know the pre-flight checks for a Robin HR-200 pretty well :p
[12:19] <Keybuk> bit of a different class though
[12:19] <sladen> and even then it doesn't stop you stepping on the wrong pedal ;)
[12:19] <Keybuk> http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=1078886&WxsIERv=Ebova%20UE-200-120O&Wm=0&WdsYXMg=Jryyrfobhear%20Nivngvba&QtODMg=Jryyrfobhear%20Zbhagsbeq%20%28RTOJ%29&ERDLTkt=HX%20-%20Ratynaq&ktODMp=Whar%203%2C%202006&BP=1&WNEb25u=Wvz%20Tebbz&xsIERvdWdsY=T-JNIA&MgTUQtODMgKE=Cerivbhfyl%20ertvfgrerq%20T-IRPN.&YXMgTUQtODMgKERD=735&NEb25uZWxs=2006-07-20%2012%3A38%3A27&ODJ9dvCE=&O89Dcjdg=344&static=yes&width=1024&height=695&sok=JURER%20%20%28ert%20%3D%2
[12:19] <Keybuk> 0%27T-JNIA%27%29%20%20BEQRE%20OL%20cubgb_vq%20QRFP&photo_nr=1&prev_id=&next_id=0840691
[12:19] <Keybuk> (ouch, URL!)
[12:19] <Keybuk> and you know what
[12:19] <Keybuk> you can cut it all out
[12:20] <Keybuk> http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=1078886 vs. http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=1221850
[12:21] <ogra> you even got a pilot cap :)
[12:21] <Keybuk> lol, that's not me :)
[12:21] <ogra> heh
[12:21] <Keybuk> it is my favourite plane though
[12:22] <Keybuk> it's slightly more responsive than the other three allegedly identical ones :p
[12:22] <sladen> I find this when dating triplets
[12:26] <doko> bryce: please could you check if gcc-3.4 is really needed on lpia?
[12:26] <doko> mesa ...
[12:26] <Keybuk> mneptok: but can you fly it?
[12:28] <ogra> Keybuk, worst case you can drive it with a paddle on the next sea :)
[12:28] <mneptok> Keybuk: dunno. never sanded on water on purpose >:)
[12:28] <mneptok> *landed
[12:28] <Keybuk> "Fly, yes ... Land, no!"
[12:29] <mneptok> Keybuk: http://www.antillesseaplanes.com/
[12:30] <ogra> no pricelist
[12:31] <mneptok> if you have to ask ... yadda yadda
[12:31] <dobey> heh
[12:32] <Keybuk> $2,200,000 for the turbine model
[12:32] <Keybuk> $1,300,000 for the piston
[12:32] <dobey> 2.2's not too bad
[12:33] <dobey> totally worth the extra mil
[12:36] <Keybuk> "Whilst it is theoretically possible to complete a course of PPL training on a MEP aeroplane the candidate is required to have 70 hours flight time as pilot in command (PIC) of aeroplanes before making licence application. It is therefore assumed that the applicant for a MEP class rating will be in possession of at least a valid PPL (A) and have 70 hours experience as PIC before commencing the course. There are no planned solo exercises
[12:36] <Keybuk> on the course."
[12:36] <Keybuk> spoil sports
[12:37] <ogra> well, 70h arent to much
[12:40] <ogra> anyway, bedtime ....
[12:41] <keescook> iwj: still here?  I saw the "trigger activated" stuff, but it never ran in the end...
[12:41] <keescook> is this perhaps because the running dpkg was old?
[01:32] <keescook> Riddell: kdesudo was broken out of kdebase-core ?
[02:03] <killown> how do I to set flags optimization gcc in apt-build sources packages?
[02:04] <killown> I want to build with it flags : -O3 -march=prescott -mmmx -msse -msse2 -msse3 -mfpmath=sse -fomit-frame-pointer -pipe
[02:04] <killown> debian/rules  file here >> http://rafb.net/p/hKbKd144.html
[02:04] <sladen> killown: I think you also need  -fomg-faster
[02:05] <killown> sladen, ?
[02:05] <RAOF> -funroll-loops :)
[02:05] <ion_> Better use -O999
[02:05] <ion_> It might not get optimized enough otherwise.
[02:06] <killown>
[02:06] <RAOF> killown: To answer your actual question, misugided as we think it is, you'd be after setting (or appending) to CFLAGS
[02:08] <sladen> killown: /etc/apt/apt-build.conf
[02:09] <killown> sladen, make_options="" or options="" to set flags >> -O3 -march=prescott -mmmx -msse -msse2 -msse3 -mfpmath=sse -fomit-frame-pointer -pipe ??
[03:02] <wasabi> hmm. there a way to convince the installer to install to a hard coded device name without having to select it from a list? It can't recognize my non-MBR partitions. =)
[03:02] <wasabi> Oh there it goes.
[03:04] <wasabi> haha, error informing the kernel about modifications to the device md0p1    that's scarey.
[06:51] <Seq> has anybody noticed increased temperatures on laptops while trying gutsy? I'm just trying to determine if I should file a bug or whether it's just my system
[06:52] <ion_> If anything, it should decrease, thanks to dynticks etc. :-)
[06:53] <Seq> ion_: i know, which is why i decided to try it out
[06:53] <ion_> Anything spurious in tops listing?
[06:53] <Seq> i have a macbook, so it was always fairly warm, but it gets rather hot under gutsy, and the fan seems to always be going now as well
[06:54] <Seq> ion_: no, and both cores are scaling properly. powertop seems to be saying my power useage is around 17W (depending on brightness) and it shoots up under load, so I'm assuming it is not that
[06:55] <fabbione> Seq: best would be to grab a dmesg from both feisty and gutsy and see if there is any relevant difference
[06:55] <fabbione> perhaps it's just a bug in the kernel
[06:56] <Seq> fabbione: thats possible. I was also curious if it could be the new intel driver vs the i810 one, as the graphics could use a fair chunk of power
[06:57] <Seq> also, I'm not using compiz as I'm assuming that could make a difference
[06:57] <fabbione> Seq: it's worth starting from the bottom.. check dmesg to see if there is a diff first.. then try to revert the gfx driver and proceed one step at a time
[07:01] <Seq> I have an error loading DSDT from initramfs. Is that only used when loading a custom DSDT?
[07:08] <Seq> is there a way to check if the hard disk spins down correctly?
[08:24] <shirish> sorry to disturb you folks, but anybody knows what should i install to get wxwidgets2.8.4 in gutsy?
[08:27] <darius> evening all
[08:28] <darius> anyone have a few mins to let me pick their brains about the package installer and ubuntu package development
[08:35] <dariuskane> anyone awake?
[08:42] <dariuskane> anyone awake? have a few package questions Im hoping to find a few answers for
[09:22] <mdke> who's in charge of the certification courses?
[09:39] <Riddell> keescook: kdesudo is a separare programme that has never touched kdebase
[09:39] <Hobbsee> hi Riddell
[09:50] <fabbione> doko_: ping?
[09:50] <doko_> fabbione: pong
[09:50] <fabbione> doko_: hey.. i have a couple of questions for you...
[09:50] <fabbione> doko: did you get my email about glibc?
[09:50] <doko> yes
[09:51] <fabbione> doko: do you have an ETA for it to hit gutsy?
[09:51] <fabbione> feisty will take longer and we know
[09:51] <doko> with the next upload
[09:51] <fabbione> ok cool thanks
[09:51] <fabbione> next thing is about gcc-4.2 on sparc.. david is hunting down that bug that miscompiles the kernel
[09:51] <fabbione> expect a patch soonish
[09:52] <fabbione> even if it's not critical for gutsy it would be good to have it ready so that we can do more testing on the compiler before gutsy+1 opens
[09:52] <doko> yes, that would be nice. does this one have an upstream pr`
[09:52] <doko> ?
[09:53] <fabbione> doko: not sure.. but davem is on it... that's enough for me
[09:53] <fabbione> doko: he says that it might be also a kernel bug.. but he just started looking into it
[10:48] <Mithrandir> seb128: is it intentionally that gstreamer0.10-plugins-base-dbg depends on gstreamer0.10-gnomevfs, while gstreamer0.10-plugins-base doesn't depend on the gnomevfs one?
[10:49] <seb128> Mithrandir: yes, the binaries are splitted but not the dbg
[10:49] <seb128> Mithrandir: so the dbg depends on all the binaries
[10:50] <Mithrandir> seb128: ugh. :-/
[10:50] <seb128> Mithrandir: install the -dbgsym and ignore the -dbg ;)
[10:50] <seb128> those are splitted
[10:50] <Mithrandir> seb128: until we have the debug symbols in Ubuntu itself, no.  I'm working on the mobile-dev seed
[10:50] <seb128> ok
[10:51] <Mithrandir> I'll just exclude the gstreamer debug symbols for now
[10:51] <seb128> do you need -dbg packages in -dev? can't you use apport and retrace?
[10:51] <Mithrandir> I'd like to have them there by default, since it's helpful for having a good development environment.
[10:52] <seb128> ok
[11:11] <Chipzz> hi, a little question (I looked this up in the debian policy but found nothing relevant): is the devel section used for development files of applications, or rather for development tools?
[11:11] <Riddell> both
[11:12] <Riddell> see gcc for example
[11:12] <Chipzz> for example:
[11:12] <Chipzz> devel/epiphany-browser-dev
[11:12] <Chipzz> devel/gedit-dev
[11:12] <Chipzz> devel/glabels-dev
[11:12] <Chipzz> should these be in devel or in libdevel ?
[11:16] <doko> mvo: bug 70420 seems to be another one with the wrong pickling behaviour, which is fixed now. just close it?
[11:16] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 70420 in python2.4 "crash while loading Anwendungen-"Hinzufuegen/Entfernen" dialoge" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/70420
[11:17] <mvo> doko: yeah, I think so
[11:34] <Riddell> the tribe 4 freeze announcement talks about https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackageInconsistencies but that seems like just a redirect page, what was on it?
[11:36] <Riddell> ah, found it
[11:37] <iwj> keescook: That's not supposed to happen.  It may be a bug.  What exactly were you doing ?
[12:00] <Riddell> anyone able to read this over for sanity?  http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/34042/
[12:02] <mvo> Riddell: looks ok to me
[12:04] <Riddell> thanks
[12:07] <Ng> don't suppose anyone is using compiz with -intel on an 855GM?
[12:12] <Riddell> Mithrandir: ubuntu-devel-announce post for moderation
[12:15] <Mithrandir> Riddell: approved
[12:23] <Riddell> thanks
[12:23] <Riddell> ubuntu daily alternate amd64 oversized, there's no language packs on it, what should be removed?
[12:24] <Riddell> language-support-en maybe
[12:28] <seb128> does anybody know how to redirect an input canal to a stereo output using alsa (the source is mono)?
[12:29] <fabbione> seb128: afaik mplayer can do that, but i don't recall the optiosn
[12:35] <seb128> fabbione: well, that's not to play a media file, that's to have the sound of a guitar directed correctly in stereo
[12:36] <fabbione> seb128: ok, but you can look how mplayer code does it :)))
[12:42] <tsmithe> seb128, gotta run, but what about using the "route" plugin in asoundrc?
[12:42] <seb128> tsmithe: I don't about it, thanks for the hint, I'll have a look
[12:42] <tsmithe> no probs :)
[01:02] <tkamppeter> hi doko
[01:02] <doko> tkamppeter: hi
[01:03] <tkamppeter> doko, did you get my two mails yesterday, about new system-config-printer and cupsys packages?
[01:03] <tkamppeter> Can you upload these packages for me?
[01:03] <doko> hmm, is pitti offline?
[01:03] <Mithrandir> doko: I hope so.  He's getting married.
[01:03] <doko> today?
[01:03] <tkamppeter> pitti is currently really offline, according to my xchat.
[01:03] <Mithrandir> doko: ttbomk, yes.
[01:04] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: you mean he *didnt* take his laptop into the church????
[01:04] <tkamppeter> Perhaps they do not have WLAN there.
[01:06] <\sh> or his wife told him: Laptop or Marriage...you decide
[01:38] <Riddell> Mithrandir: further ubuntu-devel-announce post for moderation
[01:39] <asac> crimsun: hey ... do you have any idea what happened to the "accept license" in flashplugin-nonfree?
[01:40] <asac> crimsun: i remember that it was displayed by the debian package once ... but it apparently doesn't do this anymore
[01:40] <Mithrandir> Riddell: approved
[01:43] <Riddell> thanks
[01:44] <Riddell> evand: on today's kubuntu live CD, ubiquity won't let me past the language page, the cursor remains as the busy cursor and the next button isn't enabled
[01:45] <iwj> Riddell: I've dealt with those MIRs you asked about.  Two are approved; one is ftbfs for me; one I have some questions about.
[01:48] <Riddell> iwj: ok, thanks, I'll have the kvkbd packager look at that fail and the kdebluetooth packager look at your obexftp question (or maybe Mithrandir can answer it, I seem to remember he's involved with bluez)
[01:49] <iwj> Riddell: Right.  I hope that's helpful.
[01:49] <iwj> Let me know if you want me to look again, etc.
[01:50] <iwj> Riddell: FYI, re the Tribe 5 freeze, there's a bug report about triggers from Kees which may or may not be an actual bug.  He mentioned it to me on IRC last night.
[01:50] <iwj> If it's true I'll probably fix it but I trust that can be done later today or early next week ?
[01:50] <Riddell> iwj: got a bug number?
[01:50] <iwj> No.
[01:50] <Riddell> iwj: sure, freeze isn't until tuesday
[01:51] <iwj> Just a one-line irc comment as yet :-).
[01:51] <iwj> Right, thanks.
[02:03] <StevenK> Hrm. Who's archive day is it?
[02:05] <pygi> StevenK, you're motu-uvf member, right? ^_^
[02:05] <StevenK> Let me deny everything.
[02:06] <pygi> StevenK, o com'on!
[02:07] <StevenK> pygi: Hrm? What's up?
[02:08] <pygi> StevenK, just a little review & exception approval & upload =)
[02:09] <pygi> bug #133052
[02:09] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 133052 in swfdec0.4 "[needs review]  swfdec0.5.1 [needs upload] " [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/133052
[02:09] <Riddell> StevenK: the archive manager for today is in church all day
[02:10] <StevenK> Ah. pitti. Weddings don't take all day. :-)
[02:10] <Riddell> he'll be busy consumating afterwards, I can take archive requests if you have something that needs done
[02:11] <zul> StevenK: yes but the nervousness and going what am i getting myself into does ;)
[02:12] <StevenK> Riddell: I doubt that. I got married two years ago. All you do after is collapse and sleep. :-)
[02:12] <StevenK> Riddell: I'm working on NBS stuff - Are you able to NBS out gaphor-lib and libgig3c2, and push libmtp through NEW?
[02:13] <StevenK> Riddell: After libmtp gets published, then I'll upload a rebuild only of amarok, rhythmbox and gnomad2.
[02:14] <pygi> StevenK, 1)isn't libmtp already published (?) and can we pretty please get this fix in?
[02:14] <pygi> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libmtp/+bug/132853
[02:14] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 132853 in libmtp "[needs review]  libmtp 0.2.1 udev rules file fix [needs upload] " [Undecided,New]
[02:14] <Riddell> I've not done deleting packages before, it may not be a good time for me to start
[02:14] <Riddell> iwj: what was your kvkbd build failure?  it builds fine in a pbuilder for me
[02:15] <StevenK> Riddell: That's okay.
[02:16] <Hobbsee> Riddell: live on the edge a little :P
[02:16] <StevenK> pygi: libmtp *source* is, the binaries aren't.
[02:17] <pygi> StevenK, right :) And can we get that little fix in? ^^
[02:17] <Riddell> StevenK: being in UVF as we are, is there a paticular reason for a new mtp version?
[02:17] <pygi> Riddell, a lot of new hardware support
[02:18] <StevenK> Riddell: And it was uploaded yesterday, before UVF
[02:18] <Riddell> evand: ubiquity in ubuntu quietly died during the install part http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/debug
[02:18] <pygi> two days ago actually =)
[02:18] <Riddell> evand: and as mentioned, in kubuntu it breaks on the language page http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/debug-kubuntu
[02:19] <Riddell> evand: also d-i says it can't install a kernel, does it need rebuilt?  the udeb list seems up to date to me
[02:20] <StevenK> pygi: I can upload it for you, if you wish
[02:20] <pygi> StevenK, that would rock, thanks =)
[02:20] <Hobbsee> yay, StevenK can do all the sponsoring
[02:20] <Riddell> StevenK: sneaky :)
[02:20] <StevenK> Riddell: :-)
[02:21] <pygi> StevenK, it's pretty important fix for libmtp package :)
[02:21] <pygi> that swfdec is also important, but not as much as this fix
[02:21] <StevenK> Hobbsee: Nuh uh, I'm doing it for NBS stuff
[02:21] <Riddell> StevenK: accepted
[02:21] <StevenK> Riddell: Thanks
[02:22] <StevenK> Hrm. It shouldn't really change previous changelog entries, but it's correcting the day.
[02:24] <StevenK> pygi: Correct the diffstat, it's useless
[02:24] <StevenK>  swfdec0.5_0.5.1.orig.tar.gz |binary
[02:24] <StevenK>  1 file changed+
[02:26] <pygi> StevenK, ok, and in what way to correct it?
[02:27] <StevenK> diff'ing the two tarballs is pointless
[02:27] <StevenK> Unpack both of them, diff -urNP <old> <new> | diffstat
[02:27] <StevenK> And libmtp is uploaded
[02:28] <pygi> StevenK, thanks, gonna diffstat now
[02:31] <pygi> StevenK, done
[02:31] <pygi> lunch now
[02:45] <\sh> hmmm....under gnome, the window manager action "move to another workspace ->" and selecting e.g. workspace 3 doesn't work with compiz somehow, but moving the window from actual workspace to the left or right works
[02:46] <\sh> or did i miss one plugin?
[02:50] <evand> Riddell: tbh, I'm not sure yet.  I just noticed the bug yesterday when I was building the new version.  I'll let you know though.
[02:56] <Riddell> evand: which bug?
[02:57] <evand> crashing on install
[03:07] <tkamppeter> riddell, biff
[03:07] <Riddell> evand: and the other two bugs?
[03:07] <Riddell> tkamppeter: pardon?
[03:07] <pygi> back
[03:08] <tkamppeter> Riddell, you perhaps do not know this expression of IRCish, it means that I have sent an e-mail to you.
[03:08] <Riddell> maybe an expression from before my time :)
[03:08] <Riddell> tkamppeter: I'll upload those for you now
[03:09] <tkamppeter> Riddell, thanks.
[03:10] <evand> Riddell: other two bugs?  I see you mentioned d-i not installing a kernel, that's new to me and I'll check it out.  Is there another bug?
[03:10] <Riddell> evand: the kubuntu ubiquity one
[03:12] <evand> ahhh, sorry, it's early.  I skimmed that and though it was the bug I mentioned yesterday.  That bug is my fault, I'll fix it today.
[03:24] <Riddell> tkamppeter: for system-config-printer the version is 0.7.71+-svn1406-0ubuntu1 but your changelog says "Subversion snapshot r1399"
[03:24] <Riddell> should that be r1406?
[03:28] <tkamppeter> riddell, this is a cut-and-paste mistake in the ChangeLog, I have corrected that in the new package.
[03:29] <Riddell> tkamppeter: ok, that and cupsys uploaded
[03:44] <tkamppeter> Riddell, thank you
[03:46] <tkamppeter> Anyone here is using an HP printer with HPLIP?
[03:46] <Riddell> tkamppeter: yes (I think I do anyway)
[03:49] <Mithrandir> no idea if I'm using hplip, but I have an HP printer, yes.
[04:01] <Hobbsee> elmo: ping @ planet ubuntu stuff
[04:02] <tkamppeter> Riddell, which version of HPLIP are you using (start the hp-toolbox from the command line and see the output in your terminal).
[04:02] <elmo> Hobbsee: ?
[04:02] <Hobbsee> elmo: is it accepable for planet to have the constant envy posts?
[04:03] <tkamppeter> Mithrandir, do "lpstat -v" and your HP printer should show with a URI starting with "hp".
[04:03] <Hobbsee> elmo: i would have thought it constituted as advertising, and if everyone did it, planet would flood.  see http://albertomilone.com/wordpress/?p=1115 and http://albertomilone.com/wordpress/?p=117 for more info
[04:03] <Mithrandir> device for OfficeJet-Pro-K550: socket://skriver.local:9100
[04:03] <Mithrandir> tkamppeter: ^^; so no.
[04:03] <Mithrandir> it's ethernet-enabled, after all.
[04:04] <Riddell> tkamppeter: HP Linux Imaging and Printing System (ver. 1.7.3)
[04:04] <Riddell> HP Device Manager ver. 9.0
[04:05] <Hobbsee> elmo: ( i was the developer who emailed him, obviously)
[04:05] <elmo> Hobbsee: err, I don't know - who are you asking me as?
[04:06] <Hobbsee> elmo: as one of the people who has a fairly good idea of what belongs on planet and doesnt, and as one of the debian planet people too.  also, as one of the people who was at the planet editorial policy specs.
[04:06] <tkamppeter> Mithrandir, go to a box running a completely updated Gutsy (update if needed), start system-config-printer, choose "New Printer", choose an entry like "HP OfficeJet Pro K550 <IP> HPLIP" and create a new print queue with this one by doing the remaining steps of the wizard. Then try to print through this queue and also start the "hp-toolbox".
[04:06] <Hobbsee> elmo: (ie, not as a canonical sysadmin)
[04:07] <tkamppeter> Riddell, are you still on Feisty? Do you have access to a Gutsy box? Or at least to a Gutsy live CD?
[04:07] <Mithrandir> tkamppeter: will that work when the printer is just on the network?
[04:07] <elmo> Hobbsee: well
[04:07] <Riddell> tkamppeter: this is on gutsy
[04:08] <tkamppeter> Mithrandir, yes, and the best is HPLIP makes also all non-printing functions available on network-connected devices, like scanning, ink level readout, nozzle cleaning, download of pictures from memory cards, ...
[04:08] <Hobbsee> elmo: i'm just of the opinion that it only relates to a subset of people, and that the same information can be conveyed using a repository, rather than posting to planet for every single deb update.
[04:09] <tkamppeter> Riddell, you did not do your Debian morning gymnastics: sudo apt-get update; sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
[04:09] <elmo> Hobbsee: I'd tend to agee with that, but
[04:09] <Hobbsee> elmo: sure, advertising the fact that it exists is fine, from time to time, but showing the changelog for every update, and asking people to upgrade each time is....not planet content, i would ahve thought.
[04:09] <Hobbsee> elmo: but?
[04:09] <Mithrandir> tkamppeter: it doesn't list "HP officejet pro k550 $ip HPLIP", only the already set-up printer.
[04:09] <elmo> Hobbsee: and I'm fine with an individual asking him to stop, but I'm not sure it's something (the threadbare) guidelines we have in any discourages
[04:10] <Hobbsee> elmo: i guess i'm more asking "am i correct in asking him to stop, or am i out of line?"
[04:10] <tkamppeter> Mithrandir, are you in the add-printer wizard? And are you sure that your system-config-printer is really up-to-date?
[04:10] <elmo> Hobbsee: I think it's fine for you to do so
[04:11] <Hobbsee> elmo: right.  and therefore others.
[04:12] <elmo> sure
[04:12] <Hobbsee> elmo: thanks
[04:12] <Mithrandir> tkamppeter: seems to be up-to-date, yes.
[04:12] <Mithrandir> ii  system-config-printer 0.7.71+-svn1406-0ubuntu1 printer configuration GUI
[04:13] <Mithrandir> tkamppeter: I believe I am in the wizard - I click the "New printer" icon, it says "searching for printers" for a little while, then gives me http://err.no/tmp/Skjermdump-Ny%20skriver.png
[04:15] <tkamppeter> Mithrandir, this looks strange for me. Can you do "hp-makeuri <IP_ADDRESS>" and post the output here?
[04:15] <Mithrandir> : tfheen@xoog ~ > hp-makeuri <IP_ADDRESS>
[04:15] <Mithrandir> error: HPMUDEXT could not be loaded. Please check HPLIP installation.
[04:16] <tkamppeter> Mithrandir, this is bug 132670 Can you subscribe to the bug and fopllow the instructions in my postings there? Thanks.
[04:16] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 132670 in hplip "[gutsy] hplip toolbox doesn't start" [Undecided,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/132670
[04:18] <Mithrandir> tkamppeter: do you want the reports here or in the bug?
[04:21] <Mithrandir> tkamppeter: anyway, done
[04:25] <Riddell> tkamppeter: I now have "HP Linux Imaging and Printing System (ver. 2.7.7)" and it says "error: HPMUDEXT could not be loaded. Please check HPLIP installation." and fails to start
[04:25] <Hobbsee> anyone got an opinion on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-meta/+bug/122039 ?
[04:25] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 122039 in ubuntu-meta "[Gutsy]  unnecessary packages in ubuntu-desktop dependencies?" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[04:27] <tkamppeter> Mithrandir, thank you very much. Seems that some libraries are not found by HPLIP.
[04:27] <Riddell> seb128: are you planning to do anything about bug 118745?  we have a script in guidance that runs on login for kubuntu that sets the DPI which you could use
[04:27] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 118745 in libgnome "Font sizes in Gutsy are vulnerable to bad X.org DPI detection" [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/118745
[04:27] <tkamppeter> Riddell, bug 132670, can you follow the instructions there?
[04:27] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 132670 in hplip "[gutsy] hplip toolbox doesn't start" [Undecided,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/132670
[04:28] <Mithrandir> tkamppeter: I'm off for the day, so if you need anything more, tell me and I'll see if I can oblige when I'm around again
[04:29] <tkamppeter> Mithrandir, Riddell, anyone else, someone has an idea what is happening here (look into the strace log)?
[04:29] <seb128> Riddell: I would like to get bryce opinion on this one, not sure why the dpi detection is so wrong and that looks like something that should be improve in xorg, not hacked around by some extra script
[04:30] <Riddell> seb128: I suspect DPI detection is a fault of monitors as much as X
[04:30] <seb128> what does the guidance script do?
[04:31] <seb128> it does determine dpi by some way if it makes the situation better, why can't that be done by xorg itself rather?
[04:32] <tkamppeter> Mithrandir, thanks for your log, this has helped me localizing the problem. In the package there are libraries missing (which are on my system due to a former upstream installation of HPLIP 2.x).
[04:33] <Mithrandir> open("/usr/lib/libhpmud.so.0", O_RDONLY) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
[04:33] <Mithrandir> tkamppeter: ^^ that one is probably the problem
[04:33] <Mithrandir> as you diagnosed yourself at about the same time
[04:34] <tkamppeter> Yes, that's it. I am now correcting the packages, so 2.7.7-0ubuntu4 will work.
[04:38] <tkamppeter> Mithrandir, that is really strange that these libraries got included in the older package version, as I had to add a missing line to debian/hplip.install now.
[04:43] <Chipzz> Hobbsee: FWIW +1 on removing the envy posts
[04:43] <Hobbsee> Chipzz: suggest you comment on the relevant post
[04:43] <Chipzz> Hobbsee: but I tend to look at it more from the angle that the whole idea of envy is totally misguided and should be discouraged
[04:44] <Hobbsee> Chipzz: well, i suspect there will be some posts of that nature as well
[04:44] <Chipzz> I haven't tried it yet, but chances are that it fucks with the regular packaging and causes problems on upgrades
[04:44] <Hobbsee> Chipzz: but then again, arent we now blocking upgrades from those who have used automatix and envy?
[04:44] <Hobbsee> and other "helper" scripts?
[04:44] <Chipzz> Hobbsee: I knew about automatix, but not about envy?
[04:45] <Mithrandir> mvo: ^^ ; we discussed this at UDS, has it actually been implemented?
[04:45] <Hobbsee> Chipzz: i thought the plan was for that too
[04:45] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: the automatix part certainly has
[04:45] <Chipzz> and are we blocking upgrades? I thought we were blcoking bugreports with apport?
[04:45] <Hobbsee> oh wait, maybe that's for apport only yet
[04:45] <Mithrandir> Chipzz: we should be telling the user "You have done stuff to your system which we believe will break the upgrade, sorry."
[04:46] <Chipzz> anyway, would I be correct in stating that envy is misguided and dangerous?
[04:46] <mvo> Mithrandir: not yet
[04:46] <Chipzz> Mithrandir: we should be, but are we yet?
[04:46] <Chipzz> Mithrandir: btw, are you<EMAIL_ADDRESS>? :)
[04:46] <Hobbsee> Chipzz: [00:46]  <mvo> Mithrandir: not yet
[04:47] <Hobbsee> Chipzz: no, he's<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[04:47] <Chipzz> Hobbsee: :P
[04:47] <Hobbsee> :P
[04:47] <mvo> especially for envy (later version do not break anything) I would rather like to work around the issue, but its unfortunately not trivial to setup a testcase
[04:47] <Hobbsee> Chipzz: (yes)
[04:47] <mvo> I haven't looked at automatix in a while, not sure what this is currently doing
[04:47] <wasabi> yay dpkg triggers
[04:47] <wasabi> congrats. =)
[04:49] <Mithrandir> Chipzz: yes, I am, why?
[04:50] <joelbryan> anyone interested on the ubuntu-based distribution I made?
[04:51] <wasabi> is that statement supposed to make us interested?
[04:51] <joelbryan> http://picasaweb.google.com/joelbryan.juliano/AMADesktop2007
[04:51] <joelbryan> see for yourself
[04:53] <wasabi> that background looks like apples.
[04:55] <Chipzz> Mithrandir: I was looking at a list of packages for a certain reason (seeing in what packages .devhelp files are stored), and I noticed libhildonfm2-dev was in section devel, and I was wandering if that's a mistake (should it be in section libdevel?)
[04:55] <Chipzz> but I may be wrong on that
[04:55] <Hobbsee> joelbryan: anything interesting, apart from a new background and gnome start thing there?
[04:55] <Mithrandir> Chipzz: it should, yes.  File a bug and sub ubuntu-archive?
[04:55] <joelbryan> Hobbsee: nothing more, that's all.
[04:55] <Chipzz> nothing important really
[04:56] <joelbryan> If I have more developers, other than myself, it should be really interesting
[04:56] <joelbryan> heheh
[04:56] <Hobbsee> joelbryan: so you want to poach current ubuntu developers, who are your upstream.  interesting.
[04:56] <Mithrandir> Chipzz: I like bugs for unimportant bugs too.
[04:57] <Chipzz> Mithrandir: but maybe you can clear this up (I asked here earlier but didn't get an answer yet): is section devel for development files from programs (ie not development files from libraries), or is section devel for programming tools?
[04:57] <Mithrandir> Chipzz: devel is not for -dev packages from libraries, that's what libdevel is for.
[04:57] <Chipzz> yes, I know that
[04:57] <Chipzz> :)
[04:58] <Chipzz> but development files from programs, say, gedit and epiphany
[04:58] <Chipzz> should they go in devel or libdevel?
[04:58] <joelbryan> Hobbsee: if that's what you think, then it's not really it is, just want to show it of, and give some gratitude
[04:58] <Hobbsee> joelbryan: it looks cool, yes.
[04:59] <elkbuntu> joelbryan, is this going to only include stuff from the official ubuntu repositories?
[04:59] <joelbryan> so, I just want to give some gratitude to the people who make ubuntu.
[04:59] <joelbryan> that's all.
[04:59] <joelbryan> thanks!
[05:11] <asac> stgraber: i saw that i can add releases for mozilla.qa.stgraber (at least i get to a form when i click on the link) ... is all setup already?
[05:13] <mathiaz> wasabi: did you get a chance to look at bug 118977 ?
[05:13] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 118977 in samba "winbindd will not start do to invalid cache path" [Medium,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/118977
[05:18] <Lure_> Mithrandir (or any other buildd admin): can you give back kdepim (depend is now in main)
[05:20] <seb128> mr_pouit: did you get bug #127439 using the mist theme?
[05:20] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 127439 in gnome-themes "there is no small "Terminal" icon in the stock pack" [Low,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/127439
[05:21] <Mithrandir> Lure_: it's depwait, so will be retried automatically
[05:21] <Lure_> Mithrandir: ok, thanks - was not sure about it
[05:32] <wasabi> mathiaz: The patch is a fix for an existing patch.
[05:32] <wasabi> mathiaz: And it's possible the fhx.patch file has already been fixed by vorlon (debian)
[05:32] <wasabi> fhs
[05:32] <wasabi> I'll have to reexamine it.
[05:33] <wasabi> thought it looks like the last merge was a month ago, and I've delt with this since
[05:34] <mathiaz> wasabi: your report stated that winbindd doesn't work OOTB.
[05:34] <wasabi> ootb == ?
[05:34] <mathiaz> wasabi: out of the box
[05:34] <wasabi> Ahh yes, at the time of filing, that was correct.
[05:34] <mathiaz> wasabi: what's your configuration ?
[05:34] <mathiaz> wasabi: I've setup a winbindd infrastructure and it works for me.
[05:34] <wasabi> THe bug was regardless of configuration. Winbind should have quit almost immediatly upon starting.
[05:35] <mathiaz> wasabi: should ? why ?
[05:35] <wasabi> Sorry, have to bbl.
[05:35] <wasabi> The bug explains it pretty clearly. ;)
[05:36] <mathiaz> wasabi: The bug was set an high importance. I'm trying to understand why it's high.
[05:37] <mathiaz> wasabi: the only case where this would be annoying is the case of a laptop user which is not connected to the domain.
[05:37] <wasabi> Because at the time of filing it, winbind was unusable.
[05:37] <wasabi> It would not even start.
[05:38] <wasabi> The idea is it would create winbindd_cache.tdb in /var/cache, then go check for it in /var/lib, and fail.
[05:38] <wasabi> soryr, im at work right now, i'll be in and out
[05:39] <mathiaz> wasabi: ok.
[05:41] <daniele_982> hello all
[05:41] <daniele_982> i'm a user of debian and ubuntu and i want know if there're a solution for a big bug of gutsy (and prevoiusly Feisty): http://wiki.ubuntu-it.org/ErroreTTY
[05:43] <superm1> infinity, cprov pointed me at asking you for some weirdness happening between sbuild or pbuilder.  using sbuild (on a PPA), a script in /usr/share/PACKAGE/bin/SCRIPT_NAME is turning up -rw-r--r-- root/root  , whereas if i build it locally with pbuilder, it is marked as -rwxr-xr-x root/root.  Same source package for both, any ideas why this is happening?
[05:44] <beuno> Riddell: ping
[05:45] <sistpoty> superm1: maybe a different umask is set in sbuild/pbuilder?
[05:45] <superm1> sistpoty, should I just manually override it in debian/rules then?
[05:46] <superm1> it's a bit odd for that to happen i'd think though, since its marked executable in the .orig.tar.gz
[05:46] <sistpoty> superm1: I think so. Maybe dh_fixperms will also do that for you, not too sure w.o. reading the manpage though ;)
[05:48] <sistpoty> superm1: if you cp the file somewhere, umask comes into effect (just test with creating a dummy file, changing permissions and cp it to a different file=
[05:49] <superm1> so then perhaps sbuild is copying rather than moving files
[05:50] <sistpoty> superm1: no, both sbuild and pbuilder don't copy or move files. that's what is done from debian/rules ;)
[05:51] <superm1> hehe right.
[05:51] <superm1> i'm just a bit perplexed as to what setting in pbuilder is causing it to work as expected then
[05:51] <superm1> since i use cdbs and don't manually copy the files around
[05:53] <sistpoty> superm1: I guess looking at the build system of the software might give you some clue then (just look at what make install does, in case it uses Makefiles=
[05:53] <superm1> k sistpoty .  i'll poke around :)
[05:55] <daniele_982> sme italian here?
[05:56] <daniele_982> *same
[05:57] <sistpoty> daniele_982: I'm not, but have you tried searching for the bug in LP yet?
[05:59] <daniele_982> sistpoty: yes yes a lot of people and a lot of different solution but not one good. This is ridicule because the same bug is present in feisty (not in edgy) and the installer has still this problem
[06:05] <sistpoty> daniele_982: what's the launchpad bug number/link?
[06:07] <daniele_982> sistpoty: there're a lot of number/link if you search /bin/sh: can't access tty; job control turned off and than (busybox) there're a lot of link
[06:10] <tkamppeter> riddell, your uploads of system-config-printer and cupsys seem not to have arrived yet. I do not see them on Launchpad.
[06:10] <keescook> Riddell: in feisty, kdesu is part of kdebase-bin.  in gutsy kdesu is part of kdesudo (a new-in-gutsy package) and kdebase-bin (diverting to the kdesudo version).  The kdesudo version is broken (detects tty as "unknown") where as the kdebase-bin version is fine.  see bug 132456.
[06:10] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 132456 in kdesudo "User account 'remembers' admin password" [High,Triaged]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/132456
[06:11] <keescook> iwj: I was doing a dist-upgrade in gutsy.  half the time the initramfs hook ran, and nearer the end, I started seeing the trigger reports, but when it finished there was no final initramfs build
[06:11] <Riddell> tkamppeter: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cupsys/1.3.0-2ubuntu2 is there
[06:12] <keescook> note that I ran out of disk space a few times during the whole thing so I can  dpkg --configure -a and apt-get -f install in the middle, so I'm pretty sure I confused dpkg to no end
[06:12] <keescook> iwj: it's why I didn't file a bug -- I can't reproduce it, and I think I was entirely to blame.  ;)
[06:13] <Riddell> tkamppeter: system-config-printer was my fault, that should be it uploaded now
[06:14] <tkamppeter> Riddell, thanks.
[06:14] <daniele_982> sistpoty: you have seen???
[06:15] <sistpoty> daniele_982: I'm looking... (and trying to do other things at the same time ;)
[06:16] <beuno> Riddell: I'll be putting the tribe5 release page together
[06:16] <iwj> keescook: Hmm.
[06:16] <Riddell> keescook: well sudo is supposed to remember your password
[06:16] <iwj> Did you see dpkg say `Processing triggers for update-initramfs' ?
[06:16] <Riddell> beuno: at https://wiki.kubuntu.org/GutsyGibbon/Tribe5 ?
[06:16] <iwj> I'm still not convinced there's no dpkg bug so if you don't mind I'll quiz you a bit more.
[06:17] <keescook> Riddell: right, but it is supposed to be tty-bound.  in this case, all ttys are open since it thinks every tty is named "unknown"
[06:17] <beuno> Riddell: yeap yeap
[06:18] <keescook> Riddell: look in /var/run/sudo/$USER/ and compare the behavior of kdesudo and kdesu.distrib
[06:18] <iwj> keescook: If you have a log of any kind that would be ideal.
[06:18] <keescook> iwj: which would be helpful?  I don't have stdout/stderr any more (rebooted)
[06:19] <Riddell> beuno: great, thanks
[06:19] <beuno> Riddell,  :D
[06:21] <iwj> Damn, adsl glitch.
[06:22] <Riddell> keescook: and is that a problem in practice?
[06:22] <iwj> keescook: Hmm.  /var/log/dpkg.log would perhaps be helpful.
[06:22] <iwj> Next time the session transcript please :-).
[06:22] <sistpoty> daniele_982: I can find only three bugs searching for "/bin/sh: can't access tty"
[06:23] <sistpoty> daniele_982: and none of these seem related :/
[06:23] <keescook> Riddell: I view it as a security vulnerability, since programs could attempt to run kdesudo, and if the user _ever_ ran kdesudo during their session, the new program would get root access without password prompting.
[06:23] <keescook> Riddell: it is a regression IMO
[06:24] <daniele_982> sistpoty: for example https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.22/+bug/129817
[06:24] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 129817 in linux-source-2.6.22 "install fails: busybox (initramfs): can't access tty: (/dev/sda trouble?)" [Undecided,Incomplete]
[06:24] <Riddell> keescook: but with X aren't most programmes run from the same tty anyway?
[06:24] <keescook> Riddell: no, each terminal is a new tty (x apps from the menu yes, same tty)
[06:25] <bddebian> Heya folks
[06:25] <Riddell> sure, so for users who don't use a command line, this doesn't make any difference
[06:25] <keescook> Riddell: agreed, but it still needs fixing.  :)
[06:27] <sistpoty> daniele_982: ah, k... maybe you'd want to ask in #ubuntu-kernel then (as it appears to be a kernel bug). However don't expect it to be top priority, as the kernel causes lots of subtle and hard to debug bugs
[06:27] <bddebian> Any of you folks know about all of the postinst's failing connecting to mysql on /var/run/mysqld.sock ?  Is this because of initramfs?
[06:28] <tkamppeter> Riddell, doko, biff
[06:29] <keescook> iwj: 133172 has the log now
[06:30] <daniele_982> sistpoty: ok but this problem are present in Feist with a old kernel
[06:31] <LaserJock> seb128: is the easy-codec stuff working for rhythmbox and totem?
[06:32] <tkamppeter> Mithrandir, Riddell, you can fix your printing now with the packages from http://www.linux-foundation.org/~till/tmp/ubuntu/gutsy/hplip/binary/ (32-bit, on 64-bit you need to rebuild the sources or wait for the mirrors)
[06:32] <bddebian> LaserJock: So now that you're core-dev you can't even hang out with us low-lifes anymore eh? ;-P
[06:32] <seb128> LaserJock: totem only
[06:32] <Riddell> tkamppeter: great, I'll upload that now
[06:33] <LaserJock> seb128: blah, will rhythmbox get it by release? That's a pretty big regression.
[06:33] <seb128> LaserJock: it never had it, how is that a regression?
[06:33] <Riddell> keescook: I'll have a think about how to do that
[06:34] <LaserJock> seb128: Feisty had libgimme-codec which worked
[06:34] <keescook> Riddell: the "old" kdesu works correctly... what is the requirement to use this new kdesudo version of it?
[06:34] <seb128> LaserJock: no, the libgimme-codec was only used some weeks, the feature has been moved to gstreamer, and feisty only has easy codec installation for totem
[06:35] <LaserJock> seb128: blah, ok. I guess I must have just used it during those "some weeks"
[06:35] <iwj> keescook: So during your log you saw a message about update-initramfs not being run and that it would instead be run later ?
[06:35] <Riddell> keescook: the old kdesu always thinks it needs a new password (even when it didn't)
[06:36] <Riddell> it also randomly broke at times
[06:36] <seb128> LaserJock: it never worked in rhythmbox
[06:36] <Riddell> seb128: does gnome use /usr/share/autostart ?
[06:36] <seb128> LaserJock: the code is non trivial for rhythmbox that's why it has not be done
[06:36] <iwj> keescook: I mean, that's what you saw to stdout between 12:59 and 16:22 ?
[06:36] <iwj> keescook: Can you check to see if you have  /var/lib/dpkg/triggers/Deferred  and what is in it ?
[06:36] <seb128> Riddell: /etc/xdg/autostart
[06:37] <keescook> iwj: correct.  what I actually saw were instances of update-initramfs running, and then later "trigger activated", and finally a prompt without a final update-initramfs being run.
[06:37] <iwj> keescook: Hmm.
[06:37] <keescook> Riddell: oh, heh.  I almost think that's a better situation, but then, I don't like sudo.  ;)
[06:37] <keescook> iwj: I have the file; it is empty
[06:37] <iwj> keescook: Definitely wrong.  And this was all in what you think was one dpkg run I take it.
[06:38] <iwj> Could you dpkg -i volumeid.deb or some similar file ?
[06:38] <Riddell> keescook: it's not really, we got loads of "kdesu runs as root even when I don't enter a password" bugs since it didn't really need a password at all
[06:38] <Riddell> seb128: ok, I'll get someone to move the restricted-manager autostart file there
[06:38] <keescook> iwj: the final portion I noticed was during one single run of dpkg, yes.  However, there had been at least 2 prior runs getting packages into half-installed states.
[06:38] <iwj> Yes.
[06:38] <seb128> Riddell: it's already there?
[06:38] <Riddell> seb128: it's in /usr/share/autostart, not /etc/xdg/autostart
[06:38] <iwj> I mean, the bit where the triggers were apparently being activated but not happening was in the final run.
[06:38] <seb128> Riddell: I've it in both
[06:39] <iwj> And you haven't run dpkg since ?
[06:39] <Riddell> seb128: when?
[06:39] <Riddell> seb128: am looking at today's ubuntu live CD
[06:39] <seb128> Riddell:
[06:39] <seb128> $ dpkg -L restricted-manager | grep autostart
[06:39] <seb128> /usr/share/autostart
[06:39] <seb128> /usr/share/autostart/restricted-manager.desktop
[06:39] <seb128> /etc/xdg/autostart/restricted-manager.desktop
[06:39] <seb128> using 0.28 version
[06:39] <keescook> iwj: ah-ha! trigger activated, no final run.
[06:39] <keescook> Setting up volumeid (113-0ubuntu7) ...
[06:39] <keescook> update-initramfs: deferring update (trigger activated)
[06:39] <keescook> followed by my prompt.
[06:40] <keescook> (from "sudo apt-get --reinstall install volumeid")
[06:40] <iwj> keescook: Weeble.
[06:40] <iwj> dpkg -s initramfs-tools
[06:40] <iwj> |grep Status
[06:40] <keescook> Status: install ok installed
[06:40] <keescook> Version: 0.85eubuntu17
[06:41] <seb128> Riddell: what version do you use?
[06:41] <tkamppeter> Riddell, thanks.
[06:42] <Riddell> seb128: 0.28
[06:43] <iwj> keescook: cat /var/lib/dpkg/triggers/update-initramfs
[06:43] <keescook> cat: /var/lib/dpkg/triggers/update-initramfs: No such file or directory
[06:43] <Riddell> seb128: what version do you have?
[06:44] <iwj> keescook: That's definitely broken.
[06:44] <keescook> which package should install that file?
[06:44] <seb128> rodarvus: " using 0.28 version"
[06:44] <iwj> dpkg is supposed to invent it.  It's complicated.
[06:44] <keescook> ah, okay
[06:45] <iwj> Looking at your log I have a theory.  I won't be able to debug it today but thanks a lot for your help.
[06:45] <Riddell> seb128: most peculiar, I only have the file in /usr/share/autostart/ on both the live CD and my installed desktop
[06:45] <keescook> iwj: sure, let me know if you need more details.  :)
[06:45] <seb128> Riddell: the /etc might a conffile left over from an earlier version
[06:45] <iwj> If this is causing you a problem, reinstalling initramfs-tools should fix it.
[06:45] <iwj> If you could try that now then that would be helpful.
[06:45] <keescook> sure, one sec
[06:45] <seb128> Riddell: anyway you can just edit debian/restricted-manager.install
[06:45] <Riddell> mhb: can you do that?
[06:46] <keescook> iwj: it's doing an update-initramfs without talking about a trigger.  trying the volumeid reinstall now...
[06:46] <Riddell> seb128: do we want r-m to be run on the live CD?  I don't think we do
[06:46] <ion_> iwj: I dont have /var/lib/dpkg/triggers/update-initramfs either.
[06:46] <keescook> iwj: yup, that fixed it.  "trigger activated" and then a "Processing triggers..."
[06:46] <seb128> Riddell: not sure, better to ask to pitti on monday
[06:46] <ion_> initramfs-tools 0.85eubuntu17
[06:47] <Riddell> seb128: ok
[06:48] <iwj> ion_: That's nice to know.  It means the bug will be easier to reproduce :-).
[06:49] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 133172 in dpkg "triggers did not run at the end of dpkg" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/133172
[06:52] <mhb> Riddell: okay
[06:53] <iwj> keescook: Thanks for your report and your help.
[06:53] <mr_pouit> seb128: I am going to check the mist theme & targa pictures bugs
[06:54] <seb128> mr_pouit: ok,t hanks
[06:54] <seb128> I've to go now
[06:54] <seb128> see you on monday
[06:54] <keescook> iwj: you bet!  I've added my commandline log with the failure and fix too now.
[06:58] <bddebian> Gahh
[06:59] <ScottK> Goo?
[07:02] <bddebian> ScottK: This mysql thing bugs me and I don't know who to bug about it
[07:03] <ScottK> bddebian: #ubuntu-server
[07:03] <bddebian> Why #ubuntu-server?
[07:03] <ScottK> Because mysql is one of the packages they tend.
[07:03] <bddebian> Ahh, OK, thx
[07:53] <soothsayer> Anybody have advice on how to bump a patch to a newer version of a package. That is, patch applies against 1.0, want to modify it to apply against 1.1
[07:55] <Kmos> soothsayer: ask at #ubuntu-motu
[07:56] <soothsayer> Kmos: Okay
[09:57] <elmo> does anyone know if christer edwards IRCs?
[09:57] <mdke> elmo: yes, he does occasionally I think
[09:58] <elmo> mdke: do you know as what nick?
[09:58] <elmo> (haha spads)
[09:58] <elmo> oh he's not here, bother
[09:58] <mdke> Zelut
[09:58] <elmo> mdke: right - sorry should have thought of LP
[09:58] <mdke> seems online :)
[11:05] <sistpoty> LaserJock: nice mail about revu... not all arguments are right (e.g. mailing list of revu nowadays only accepts mails from revu) but you definitely hit the gist, that we need to define a spec what the opimal workflow for package reviews should be
[11:06] <sistpoty> LaserJock: oh, -> motu ;)
[11:21] <Mithrandir> tkamppeter: given that printing works just fine using jetdirect, I'll wait until something hits gutsy.
[11:38] <ion_> Yay for hplip no longer using a permanently running daemon!
[11:55] <tkamppeter> Mithrandir, the HPLIP fix is in place. Simply update and check whether your HPLIP gets 2.7.7-0ubuntu4 Then everything should work fine with HPLIP (and system-config-printer will set up queues for your printer with HPLIP automatically).
[11:57] <mathiaz> keescook: I'm having a look at ldap-auth-config package.
[11:58] <mathiaz> keescook: dendrobates asked me to add detection of previous libnss_ldap and pam_ldap files.
[11:58] <mathiaz> keescook: what's the standard way to issue warning messages to the user from a postinstall script ?
[11:59] <mathiaz> keescook: I'd like to say something like "You need to migrate it by hand." and stop there.
[11:59] <mathiaz> keescook: is echo enough ?


[00:02] <tormod> good night
[02:29] <desertc> Greetings -- quick question -- what is happening when I change the gstreamer video plugin settings from Autodetect to "X Window System (No Xv)" ?
[02:30] <desertc> The Autodetect is problematic for me, and I am wondering what is going on behind the scenes when I select that option, instead of X Window System.
[02:31] <desertc> Perhaps it is using Xv ?
[02:47] <pwnguin> highly likely
[03:00] <ubotu> New bug: #165326 in xserver-xorg-video-ati (main) "[Gutsy][kubuntu][ati] horizontally fuzzy screen with a ATI Technologies Inc RS200/RS200M AGP Bridge [IGP 340M] (rev 02)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/165326
[10:31] <ubotu> New bug: #149710 in displayconfig-gtk (main) "You need to install linux-restricted-modules-<IP_ADDRESS>-generic" but no available on update-manager (dup-of: 149661)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/149710
[10:36] <ubotu> New bug: #145279 in xserver-xorg-video-openchrome (universe) "[gutsy] Unmet dependencies while installing xserver-xorg-video-openchrome" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/145279
[15:37] <ScislaC> morningall
[15:37] <ScislaC> with a space even ;)
[17:22] <ScislaC> okay, so I'm going to try building that AtomBios branch of -ati per tormod's request yesterday... are ./configure errors when running autogen to be expected?
[17:24] <ScislaC> it looks like it's taking issue when doing the Checks for extensions (line 20282 is where it dies)
[17:44] <bryce> I don't know much about that branch, but in general there should not be configure errors
[17:44] <ScislaC> hmmm
[17:45] <ScislaC> bryce: is it possible that it relates to what my xserver is currently running (in terms of extensions it has or doesn't have enabled based on what the driver is capable of)? It seems like radeonhd can't do much, so I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case.
[17:45] <ScislaC> it's basically just barfing on the xinerama stuff
[17:51] <bryce> yes, configure does depend on what things you have installed
[17:51] <bryce> generally when making ubuntu packages we build them in a pbuilder or chroot environment
[18:00] <ScislaC> bryce: I think I should learn more about chroot... I've only ever used it when rescuing a system. But it makes sense for me to try and build in the same fashion that you guys do.
[18:16] <bryce> there's a link with paint-by-numbers directions... lemme dig it up for you
[18:18] <bryce> yeah here we go:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
[18:18] <bryce> basically just the "First Steps" and "Rebuilding a package" should be sufficient
[18:19] <bryce> everything after those two sections is advanced tips and tricks
[19:41] <ubotu> New bug: #149924 in mesa (main) "xgl crash" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/149924
[20:31] <ubotu> New bug: #145482 in mesa (main) "[savage] X crashed when running Mathematica 6.0 remotely" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/145482
[21:01] <Scisla1> guess who's rockin -ati with a mobility X1400 :D
[21:01] <Scisla1> bryce: woohoo!
[21:02] <Scisla1> doh, evil nick... brb
[21:02] <ScislaC> better...
[21:03] <bryce> \o/  -ati goodness
[21:04] <ScislaC> oh yeah!
[21:07] <tjaalton> nice :)
[21:08] <ScislaC> so, is there a need for me to fill in a modules section in my xorg.conf? or is that all autodetected and used if applicable now?
[21:10] <ScislaC> brb
[21:11] <tjaalton> bryce: btw, we discussed hal/input-hotplug configuration earlier today
[21:12] <bryce> ah great, I'll review backlog
[21:12] <tjaalton> and he had an idea how to make hal configuration; in a runtime script that gathers the needed information from console-setup on ubuntu and "something else" on debian
[21:12] <tjaalton> it was on #ubuntu-installer
[21:13] <tjaalton> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2007/11/27/%23ubuntu-installer.html
[21:13] <tjaalton> so, there's no need to generate an fdi file
[21:14] <tjaalton> just let hal do it on the fly
[21:14] <bryce> ah thanks for the link
[21:14] <tjaalton> not the file but configuration
[21:15] <bryce> yeah I've got a blueprint task to work on console-setup a bit
[21:18] <ScislaC> well... I guess I was a little too optimistic about getting my blingy desktop back ;)
[21:46] <ubotu> New bug: #172427 in xserver-xorg-video-ati (main) "Uses external DVI port as main screen on iMac G5 rev C - ATI X600" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172427
[22:25] <ScislaC> tormod: per your request from yesterday, I tried out the AtomBios -ati driver... works fine on my Mobility X1400
[22:55] <tormod> ScislaC: cool, if you have any issues I am sure they would appreciate your feedback on #radeon
[22:56] <ScislaC> tormod: other than lacking 3d & compositing support (at least for the r500s)... it's shaping up nicely :)
[22:57] <tormod> ScislaC: I think they said 3D for r500 should be doable soon
[22:58] <tormod> cause it has the same 3d core as r300 IIRC
[22:58] <ScislaC> tormod: ahhhh very nice :)
[22:58] <ScislaC> my desktop with an r300 will be happy then too ;)
[23:00] <tormod> it's already happy now, right?
[23:00] <ScislaC> tormod: the 3d support for my r300?
[23:01] <tormod> yes
[23:01] <ScislaC> yeah, my r300 is pretty happy (I'm just looking forward to any minor improvements)
[23:56] <ScislaC> I had to go back to Gutsy's xorg for the time being. :(  I'll try hardy's again when I can get better support for my card.


[14:08] <popey> dandrader: you at the sprint still? i have a community developer who would appreciate some advice on touch/mouse input...
[14:08] <dandrader> popey, yep
[14:09] <popey> dandrader: you free now? we're in continental b
[14:09] <dandrader> popey, yeah. will be there in a minute
[14:09] <popey> magic, thanks
[14:27] <ubuntusers> hi
[14:28] <ubuntusers> hi
[14:32] <ubuntuser> chat
[14:32] <ubuntuser> hi
[14:33] <ubuntuser> blabla bla someone ?
[15:28] <mzanetti> tedg: hey ho. Is there a command line tool to test uri handlers?
[15:33] <Saviq> mzanetti, url-dispatcher
[15:33] <Saviq> mzanetti, from url-dispatcher-tools
[15:34] <mzanetti> Saviq: perfect. thanks a lot
[15:34] <Saviq> mzanetti, or, gdbus call -e -d com.canonical.URLDispatcher -o /com/canonical/URLDispatcher -m com.canonical.URLDispatcher.DispatchURL
[15:34] <Saviq> mzanetti, with url + "" as args
[15:34] <mzanetti> url-dispatcher seems to be what I need
[15:34] <Saviq> mzanetti, there actually seems to be a TestURL method, too
[15:35] <Saviq> mzanetti, that just gives up app ids
[15:37] <paulliu> tsdgeos: https://code.launchpad.net/~paulliu/unity8/lp1383693/+merge/239579
[16:00] <tsdgeos> greyback_: where are you?
[16:02] <greyback_> tsdgeos: in mir meeting
[16:02] <tsdgeos> greyback_: oh, ok, thre was the music app guy with the flickering broken phone looking for you to show it, he's gone now
[16:03] <greyback_> tsdgeos: ah darn, yeah would like to have seen that
[16:03] <greyback_> tsdgeos: will try to seek him out
[19:25] <tsdgeos> dednick: https://code.launchpad.net/~unity-team/unity8/trunk/+activereviews


[00:00] <likemindead> What kind of delay, alvin-laptop
[00:01] <IncrStorm> No, but they gave me a great idea, LOL. Look for docs from the package that didn't come up.
[00:03] <alvin-laptop> For some reason, xubuntu waits for a while before it launchs into the script
[00:04] <likemindead> Could be hardware related, alvin-laptop, and something needs to be blacklisted.
[00:05] <alvin-laptop> do you mean changing the boot sequence?
[00:06] <alvin-laptop> I have already disabled the floppy drive in the bios
[00:08] <_Techie_> does anyone here have any experience with ATI Crossfire setups in *buntu?
[00:09] <likemindead> Check "Session and Startup" in the Xfce 4 Settings Manager.
[00:09] <alvin-laptop> I will give it a shot
[00:10] <knome> likemindead, but that's after the login screen
[00:10] <likemindead> Ah...
[00:11] <Sysi> there isn't something to be showed on the screen for every second
[00:12] <alvin-laptop> knome: burning the candle at both ends I see
[00:13] <_Techie_> Sysi and knome what graphcis cards do you guys use? ATI or nVidia?
[00:14] <likemindead> Just how slow is your boot, alvin-laptop?
[00:14] <Sysi> nvidia
[00:14] <knome> _Techie_, i've used both, but i have no idea about crossfire
[00:14] <likemindead> NVIDIA and Intel here.
[00:14] <Sysi> crossfire sound's non-working, does google know?
[00:15] <alvin-laptop> Not slow...It's as though it's waiting for something - perhaps a login screen
[00:15] <likemindead> Okay.
[00:15] <knome> from my experience, i'd say that's just normal
[00:16] <_Techie_> i gues ill have to document what i do when i get my new rig
[00:16] <likemindead> Xubuntu takes slightly longer to boot than Ubuntu for me on a couple of different laptops. Ten seconds, maybe.
[00:17] <alvin-laptop> Can't you force it to go directly into the load up script
[00:18] <knome> alvin-laptop, that would mean removing something from the boot, it does not wait just for fun ;)
[00:18] <alvin-laptop> it just sit there...as though it not sure what to do next
[00:18] <alvin-laptop> lol
[00:19] <_Techie_> it could be a cycle to check whether something loaded correctly
[00:20] <_Techie_> i would think that if the startup halted for a moment, it would not be without a good reason
[00:20] <knome> alvin-laptop, i'm sure it calculates something really important
[00:20] <knome> alvin-laptop, just think you were the guy who was given the pencil and paper and told to draw the login screen again and again!
[00:21] <alvin-laptop> I can't really complain - once in there is no waiting for anything else to load
[00:21] <alvin-laptop> carbon paper:P
[00:21] <knome> Sysi, ^ note the sarcasm in that sentence? :P
[00:21] <alvin-laptop> I do indeed
[00:21] <Sysi> knome: i was about to mention
[00:22] <knome> alvin-laptop, you couldn't know ;)
[00:22] <alvin-laptop> must be a linux joke
[00:22] <knome> actually a xubuntu joke...
[00:22] <alvin-laptop> do tell
[00:22] <knome> i used to work as the marketing lead, thus, drawing the login screens...
[00:23] <Sysi> marketing/artwork
[00:23] <knome> mmh
[00:23] <_Techie_> ... you two never cease to amaze me
[00:23] <knome> _Techie_, me and... m?
[00:23] <knome> *me
[00:23] <_Techie_> you and Sysi
[00:23] <knome> heh
[00:23] <Sysi> finnish power :P
[00:23] <_Techie_> lol
[00:23] <knome> finnish embarrassment
[00:24] <knome> :P
[00:24] <_Techie_> maybe one day ill head over your way and maybe some of it will rub off on me
[00:24] <knome> maybe... just maybe
[00:24] <knome> it doesn't stick very easily
[00:25] <Sysi> see Humon at DeaviantArt
[00:25] <alvin-laptop> knome: did you watch cooking with coolie - what did you think
[00:25] <knome> alvin-laptop, no, didn't ;)
[00:25] <Sysi> some jokes propably don't catch non-northern people
[00:26] <alvin-laptop> were can you get decent wallpaper?
[00:27] <alvin-laptop> There are only a few on offer in the default selection
[00:28] <knome> what's wrong with the ones shipped?
[00:28] <Sysi> xfce- / gnome-look.org
[00:28] <alvin-laptop> nothing marketing guru...you did a lovely job
[00:28] <_Techie_> http://4walled.org/
[00:28] <likemindead> I like wallbase.net or boards.4chan.org/wg/ if you're brave.
[00:28] <knome> alvin-laptop, hah, no really, want to know so i can improve :P
[00:29] <alvin-laptop> knome: The colour schemes are a little dark in my opinion... Although I like the designs it can be hard to read the screen at times
[00:30]  * likemindead loves the Shiki themes.
[00:31] <knome> alvin-laptop, okay :)
[00:31] <alvin-laptop> do you ship the metacity theme by default
[00:32] <Sysi> xubuntu uses xfwm
[00:32] <knome> there's not metacity themes in xfce, but xfwm
[00:32] <Sysi> http://lyseo.edu.ouka.fi/~jeremustonen/kuvat/Screenshot.png
[00:32] <Sysi> i love and knome hates that
[00:32] <knome> pretty much.
[00:33] <alvin-laptop> techie: I tried that page - mostly porn
[00:33] <Sysi> i've changed irssi theme to more green
[00:33] <knome> http://emonk.fi/temp/Screenshot.png
[00:34] <knome> Sysi, note my kewl wallpaper
[00:34] <Sysi> yeah
[00:34] <likemindead> http://www.amarillolinux.com/mb/gallery/30_20_06_10_7_59_07.png
[00:35] <alvin-laptop> Sysi: That an excellent theme - where did you get it
[00:35] <likemindead> My latest. (It changes almost hourly...)
[00:35] <Sysi> i'll take updated screenie
[00:35] <Sysi> alvin-laptop: charcoal, gnome-look
[00:35] <Sysi> window border is self-made
[00:35] <alvin-laptop> totorro
[00:36] <Sysi> i should upload it to somewhere
[00:36] <knome> Sysi, try xfce-look.org :P
[00:36] <alvin-laptop> knome: I like the simplicity of your desktop
[00:36] <Sysi> knome: when i get it done..
[00:36] <knome> alvin-laptop, yep, i focus on usability and getting things done
[00:37] <knome> alvin-laptop, contrary to Sysi, as you can see from his comment
[00:37] <alvin-laptop> knome: the best method in my opinion
[00:37] <Sysi> this is usable
[00:37] <Sysi> itherly i'd use more opacity
[00:37] <knome> Sysi, note the irony on my last :P
[00:37] <alvin-laptop> =-O
[00:37] <Sysi> knome: i noted it's only the half :)
[00:38] <Sysi> smile :)
[00:39] <Sysi> i'll upload this in a few minutes
[00:39]  * knome has some coke and cookies
[00:39] <knome> no more beer in the house :(
[00:39] <alvin-laptop> :'(
[00:40] <Sysi> mmh coke
[00:40] <alvin-laptop> Hang on - you have coke and cookies?
[00:40] <knome> warm coke actually :|
[00:40] <alvin-laptop> aaahhh
[00:40] <knome> alvin-laptop, sure. i even have cold coke in the fridge
[00:40] <knome> and more cookies in the closet
[00:40] <alvin-laptop> you finish and your sookies
[00:41] <alvin-laptop> I'm mean cookes
[00:41] <alvin-laptop> dam it cookies
[00:41] <knome> ...and "finnish"
[00:41] <alvin-laptop> Thank you - we all know I can;t spell
[00:41] <alvin-laptop> another mistake
[00:41] <alvin-laptop> let all laugh
[00:42] <knome> hey, i wasn't the one who skipped english lessons!
[00:42] <knome> oh wait, i was
[00:44] <Sysi> argh this broadband
[00:45] <Sysi> scp stucks
[00:45] <knome> hello cody-somerville
[00:46] <Sysi> http://lyseo.edu.ouka.fi/~jeremustonen/kuvat/Screenshot.png
[00:46] <cody-somerville> hi
[00:46] <Sysi> i guess there's even more to hate
[00:46] <knome> uh, all those gradients
[00:46] <Sysi> knome: are we the worst offtopic here?
[00:46] <alvin-laptop> be back in one moment
[00:47] <knome> Sysi, definitely
[00:48] <Sysi> sleepytiemz → (see the time at screenie)
[00:48] <knome> Sysi, good night boy
[00:48] <Sysi> i don't wanna sleep all time when parents are away
[00:48] <knome> hah :P
[00:48] <Sysi> g'night old man
[00:49] <knome> thank you kid
[00:49] <likemindead> Old man, eh?
[00:49] <knome> likemindead, older than Sysi :P
[00:50] <likemindead> All of 24? ;-)
[00:50] <_Techie_> NSFW--- http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t212/xperiment62/Screenshot.png
[00:50] <knome> mm-hmm :)
[00:50] <knome> _Techie_, please, we're trying to keep the channel family friendly
[00:51] <_Techie_> i listed NSFW
[00:51] <knome> still
[00:51] <likemindead> I give it a facepalm.jpg _Techie_
[00:51] <knome> people might not recognise the acronym, also, we're logged
[00:53] <_Techie_> http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t212/xperiment62/wallpaper-1.png
[00:53] <_Techie_> thats safe for work
[01:47]  * likemindead just installed Linux on his father-in-law's laptop. :D
[03:09] <patrick> HII
[03:10] <Raggs_> hu Guest30892
[03:11] <Guest30892> how fast is xubuntu in comparison to ubuntu
[03:11] <Guest30892> ( im on a hp mini 210 )
[03:12] <Raggs_> it is 22.5 % faster
[03:12] <Raggs_> that isnt a fact of course
[03:12] <Guest30892> loll
[03:12] <Guest30892> but like
[03:12] <Guest30892> boot time is all i care about
[03:12] <Guest30892> :P
[03:12] <Raggs_> it is faster, not sure how much though
[03:13] <Guest30892> im just hoping for something that is around 20 seconds
[03:13] <Raggs_> then again ubuntu is quick also
[03:13] <Raggs_> hmmm
[03:13] <Guest30892> yeah im on normal ubuntu now
[03:13] <Guest30892> it takes like 25 to 30 seconds
[03:14] <Raggs_> worth a try i guess, possibly change what gets started at startup
[03:14] <Guest30892> yeah
[03:14] <Guest30892> like how long does it take you to boot up?
[03:14] <Guest30892> (your system i mean :P)
[03:15] <Raggs_> i havent timed it
[03:15] <Raggs_> and i am running an xubuntu / ubuntu thing atm
[03:17] <Guest30892> like dual?
[03:18] <Raggs_> no, it started as ubuntu, and now it is xubuntu as well
[03:18] <Guest30892> ohh haha
[03:19] <Raggs_> and some large apps added, netbeans, virtualbox, wine
[03:19] <Guest30892> alright
[03:19] <Guest30892> like the thing is
[03:20] <Guest30892> i like the new ubuntu, ( no brown and orange ) and the new apps and features
[03:20] <Raggs_> then keep it
[03:20] <Guest30892> i mean ubuntu in general
[03:20] <Guest30892> like *buntus
[03:20] <Raggs_> the brown was ugly
[03:21] <Guest30892> the thing is about *buntus is the bloat that comes with any version no matter what, BECAUSE they are focused on making it simple to use
[03:21] <Guest30892> i agree
[03:21] <Raggs_> Guest30892, so you want the smallest distro possible?
[03:21] <Guest30892> not smallest distro possible
[03:21] <Guest30892> but like
[03:22] <Guest30892> something that is nice and fast
[03:22] <Guest30892> preferably not based on ubuntu
[03:22] <Raggs_> lol
[03:22] <Guest30892> :P
[03:22] <Raggs_> how much do you know about linux?
[03:23] <Guest30892> well ive been using it for a year or so
[03:23] <Guest30892> more than basic knowledge i would say
[03:23] <Guest30892> i can do some command line, and get my way out of problems
[03:23] <Raggs_> so setting up flash and java isnt a problem
[03:24] <Guest30892> not at all
[03:24] <Raggs_> ever use Debian?
[03:24] <Guest30892> nope
[03:25] <Raggs_> possibly worth a shot, but you will lose the ease of use
[03:25] <Guest30892> hmm
[03:25] <Raggs_> but Debian with fxce4 is much quicker than xubuntu
[03:26] <Guest30892> i just googled debian hp mini 210, and it said there was lots  of problems with the compatibility with this netbook
[03:26] <Raggs_> there is really nothing wrong with ubuntu
[03:27] <Raggs_> or xubuntu
[03:27] <Guest30892> but i like the idea of debian/arch/gentoo of installing your own de and/or window manager
[03:27] <Guest30892> yeah i know
[03:27] <Guest30892> im just trying to look for a really fast booting machine :P
[03:28] <Raggs_> Guest30892, lfs
[03:32] <Guest30892> how long would that take though
[03:32] <Guest30892> :P
[03:33] <Raggs_> have a good internet connection?
[03:33] <Guest30892> decent
[03:33] <Guest30892> i guess haha
[03:34] <Guest30892> takesa while to download stuff
[03:35] <Guest30892> sorrygotta goo
[03:35] <Guest30892> cya
[03:35] <Raggs_> you could always try to make xubuntu smaller
[06:50] <Colonel_Panic> I'm running Xubuntu 9.10 on a Dell Mini 9 and I just got a Kodak SD card at CVS
[06:50] <Colonel_Panic> for some reason, Xubuntu doesn't recognize it
[06:51] <Colonel_Panic> I tried it in a WinXP box, and it shows up fine
[06:51] <Colonel_Panic> I even formatted it as FAT32 in case it had some funky proprietary formatting on it that Linux doesn't know
[06:51] <Colonel_Panic> my Linux netbook still doesn't see it
[06:52] <Colonel_Panic> I have a number of other SDHC cards and they work fine
[06:52] <Colonel_Panic> any ideas?
[07:36] <clao> hi, i was deinstalling some CUPS programs and endended up removing the whole xubuntu desktop, now i have no window manager at all. I am going to go ahead and install xubuntu-desktop, but was wondering what else should i install? what else comes with the fresh installation of xubuntu lucid
[07:36] <clao> ?
[09:49] <alvin-laptop> Whats up everybody! whats happening in the world of xubuntu
[09:51] <TheSheep> !hi
[09:52] <Sysi> hi alvin
[09:53] <knome> we might actually want a different "hi" for just saying hi to people
[09:53] <knome> i's a bit overkill to use that one again and again and again
[09:53] <knome> *it's
[09:54] <Sysi> i think '! scares people a bit
[09:54] <knome> maybe
[09:59] <TheSheep> knome: I did it intentionally
[10:00] <TheSheep> knome: it should also mention #xubuntu-offtopic
[10:00] <knome> TheSheep, probably
[10:01] <alvin-laptop> Sysi: Hi dude
[10:02] <alvin-laptop> I was busy getting technical support from someone (no names)
[10:02]  * knome coughs
[10:02] <alvin-laptop> :-D
[10:03] <alvin-laptop> completely anonymous
[10:04] <alvin-laptop> Can some answer this question: Do the amount of icons in you panel increase your boot up time?
[10:05] <knome> maybe 0.000000001 milliseconds
[10:05] <knome> ;)
[10:06] <alvin-laptop> very scientific
[10:06] <alvin-laptop> Sysi: Did you end upload that theme you were raving about
[10:07] <Sysi> no
[10:08] <alvin-laptop> Sysi: Do take knomes comments to heart...I'm sure he loves your art work as much as I do
[10:08] <knome> to be fair, i'm sure i don't
[10:08] <Sysi> actually i have one with multiple coloures buttons, and this current one with just tvo turguoisish
[10:08] <knome> but Sysi is okay with that, i'm sure
[10:09] <alvin-laptop> knome: I sure your secretly experiment with themes (when no one is looking)
[10:09] <knome> alvin-laptop, actually, i'm not even doing it secretly: http://shimmerproject.org/2010/04/29/our-plans-update/
[10:10] <Sysi> not *secretly*, he just really don't like the gloss
[10:10] <alvin-laptop> Gloss is good...embrace the gloss knome
[10:11] <alvin-laptop> I stand corrected
[10:11] <alvin-laptop> :-(
[10:11] <knome> :)
[10:11] <knome> you are free to like gloss, i don't ;)
[10:13] <Sysi> (these window borders are based to theme named Glossy, i think it has disppeared from xfce-look)
[10:14] <alvin-laptop> In all honesty, I prefer a clean simple designs!
[10:15] <alvin-laptop> A minimalist approach some may say
[10:17] <Sysi> if there isn't license, is it public domain?
[10:17] <Sysi> i guess i can upload this and variations i've made
[10:18] <knome> Sysi, or http://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/
[10:18] <alvin-laptop> Ok boys...nice chatting with you. I'll catch you round. Knome, don't have to much beer or cookies (at once). Sysis, enjoy your glossy art work.
[10:18] <alvin-laptop> :-D
[10:18] <knome> :]
[10:18] <knome> see you alvin-laptop
[10:20] <Sysi> even if it's gpl i can upload it
[10:20] <Sysi> there's no license in(side) that tarball
[10:21] <knome> ah
[10:21] <knome> now i see where you're going to :P
[10:21] <knome> probably better to search the web and it's cache
[10:25] <Sysi> yeah, it's on DA
[10:25] <Sysi> http://sixsixfive.deviantart.com/art/Glossy-102893750?q=boost%3Apopular+in%3Acustomization%2Fskins%2Flinuxutil%2Fxfce+max_age%3A24h&qo=69
[10:26] <knome> (c)
[10:26] <knome> so ...
[10:28] <slow-motion> hi
[10:49] <xubuntu339> ciao
[10:49] <xubuntu339> sono nuovo
[10:49] <xubuntu339> sto ancora installando xubuntu asd
[13:25] <IncrStorm> I'm having video issues. "Movie Player" even with the stream updates is having problems.
[13:27] <IncrStorm> What is the current hot video player for Xubuntu. Give me your opinion on browsers as well, because firefox is running WAY too heavy.
[13:31] <Sysi> IncrStorm: vlc, smplayer; chromium, midori
[13:32] <Sysi> adblock is big help with ferefox if you have flash installed
[13:33] <IncrStorm> Well they said chrome.  I'd rather use apt-get
[13:35] <IncrStorm> When I say they, I mean my friends. Most of which have Linux experience, some of which have Ubuntu experience, NONE of which have Xubuntu experience.
[13:35] <IncrStorm> Light and fluffy is what I need.
[13:36] <likemindead> epiphany-browser is good too.
[13:36] <drizzt_> i've tried to use midory but it segfaulted constantly
[13:36] <likemindead> sudo apt-get install chromium && sudo apt-get install epiphany
[13:36] <drizzt_> and epiphany uses the same engine that firefox
[13:37] <Sysi> it's still lighter
[13:37] <Sysi> midori works pretty well for me, exept occasional crashes
[13:38] <likemindead> No, drizzt_ epiphany is now WebKit.
[13:38] <likemindead> Not Gecko.
[13:38] <Sysi> isn't there both engines available?
[13:39] <likemindead> Not in the latest versions, I don't think.
[13:40] <IncrStorm> Actually, I would prefer advice on video
[13:41] <IncrStorm> Either the codec sucks, or the player does.
[13:42] <likemindead> VLC is always a winner.
[13:42] <likemindead> !vlc
[13:43] <Sysi> i managed to play h264 on netbook only with VLC
[13:49] <IncrStorm> Kaffeine took a dump on me, something about a database. Haven't even seen Totem Xine or VLC
[13:50] <IncrStorm> !codecs ??? Forgive my ignorance, but I HAVE been looking for updated codecs. Actually haven't found one for Indeo 5 yet.
[13:51] <Sysi> restricted-extras contains those also
[14:02] <likemindead> IncrStorm: sudo apt-get install xubuntu-restricted-extras
[14:02] <likemindead> !codecs
[14:21] <Quadrescence> Why is the "Other" section of the menu not fixed?
[14:21] <Quadrescence> (the applications menu)
[14:23] <knome> Quadrescence, "fixed" in which way?
[14:24] <Quadrescence> Fixed in the way that icons don't randomly disappear, or that the entire Other menu doesn't disappear (typically the latter, typically after installing new software)
[14:25]  * likemindead has no "Other" section.
[14:26] <Quadrescence> It's there especially when wine software is installed
[14:26] <knome> Quadrescence, yes, because wine installs menu items in the "other" menu
[15:03] <IncrStorm> call me an idiot but I've got instructions for installing a bin package, but what about a deb package? Shouldn't that be easier?
[15:04] <TheSheep> yes, you just double-click on the deb
[17:44] <Arpad2> hello!
[17:44] <Arpad2> how can be a dvd+rw disk formated?
[17:45] <Sysi> with brasero, propably
[17:45] <Arpad2> i cant find it there
[17:45] <subuntu> i just installed 9.10 and it came up fine, but resolution was bad at 800 x 600, so i installed nvidia restricted driver (175 - recommended) but then when i restarted got black screen, not 'no signal' but 'out of range'
[17:54] <subuntu> heeeeeellllllllp! i installed 9.10 for my friend (and wiped her xp), and now i don't have any screen.  after i installed nvidia drivers and restarted monitor black, message says 'out of range'
[17:55] <Arpad2> subuntu: try at #ubuntu also:)
[17:55] <subuntu> at this point, if i could just get the nvidia drivers uninstalled and go back to 800 x 600 at least i could leave her with a working system today
[17:56] <subuntu> Arpad2: i've been all over the place today, it seems like i am somehow going to have to edit an xorg.conf file, and i need help to do it
[17:57] <Sysi> get to grub menu during boot and select failsafe graphics
[17:57] <Sysi> waht was the button again..
[17:57] <subuntu> sysi, hold shift key i think?
[17:58] <Sysi> worth a try
[17:59] <subuntu> sysi, i got into grub menu, but i don't see a failsafe grafix mode
[17:59] <Sysi> hmm, i'm not sure with grub2
[17:59] <subuntu> theres linux generic, and linux recovery, and memtest, and memtest serial
[18:00] <Sysi> try recovery
[18:00] <subuntu> should i try to edit it, or just enter to recovery mode?
[18:00] <Sysi> just enter
[18:02] <subuntu> k, got six options: rsume, clean, dpkg, grub, netroot, and root
[18:02] <subuntu> *resume
[18:02] <Sysi> clean could be
[18:03] <subuntu> clean, says try to make free space
[18:04] <subuntu> this is a new installation, so i don't think i need to make free space do i?
[18:04] <Sysi> should not
[18:05] <subuntu> is there a root command i can use to disable the nvidia drivers?
[18:08] <subuntu> the last two options are: drop to root shell prompt with networking, or simply drop to root shell prompt
[18:10] <Sysi> you can make it from root shell
[18:10] <Sysi> i don't remember how, google maybe does
[18:10] <subuntu> ok, how :)
[18:18] <subuntu> on page http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-980081.html there is a post by perfectska that has a command to disable a particular nvidia driver   sudo apt-get remove nvidia-glx-177 nvidia-177-kernel-source nvidia-settings  but if i remember correctly, the driver installed was (175), not (177)
[18:19] <Sysi> switch the number
[18:21] <subuntu> says 'couldn't find package nvidia-glx-175'
[18:22] <Sysi> try "current"
[18:22] <subuntu> ummmm, where the number is substitute 'current' ?
[18:23] <Sysi> "aptitude search nvidia"
[18:23] <Sysi> it shows in left what's installed
[18:25] <subuntu> its showing A LOT .. whole screen ful of stuff, including references to nvidia 180, 185, 96, 173
[18:29] <lighta> can't u use grep to found what u want ?
[18:29] <subuntu> i can do whatever you tell me what (how) to do :)
[18:30] <subuntu> i'm just freaking out cause i just wiped out my friends xp and now she don't have a screen ... arrrrrrrrrrrggggggghhhhhhh
[18:32] <lighta> let's try aptitude search nvidia | grep current ?
[18:32] <subuntu> sysi, the last output from aptitude search nvidia is nvidia-settings can i run that to disable the drivers?
[18:32] <Sysi> it's graphical
[18:32] <subuntu> oh, so i won't get it
[18:33] <Sysi> and you'd need to use ubuntu's tool
[18:33] <subuntu> lighta how do i make that perpendicular slash for your command?
[18:34] <lighta> with 6
[18:35] <subuntu> what do u mean by 6
[18:35] <lighta> well on my keyboard | is under 6 number but you could just copy and past
[18:40] <subuntu> its a different machine, i'm on the laptop talkin to you so can't copy/paste .. searching now for keyboard symbol
[18:42] <lighta> what's your keyboard ? azerty or qwerty ?
[18:42] <subuntu> qwerty
[18:42] <lighta> =(
[18:43] <subuntu> i have a broken perpendicular symbol, lemme try it
[18:44] <subuntu> nothing happened with my broken | on that machine
[18:45] <subuntu> X(
[18:45] <subuntu> damn this thing
[18:52] <slow-motion> bye
[19:08] <ludo182> somebody speaks french ?
[19:08] <lighta> subuntu ? did you succed ?
[19:08] <lighta> ludo182, I do
[19:08] <Sysi> !fr
[19:09] <ludo182> lighta woohooo : je viens d'installer xubuntu depuis peu sur un vieux portable, tout marchait bien, et depuis midi, je n'ai plus la barre des menus en haut, ni celle en bas ! tu peux m'aider ?
[19:09] <lighta> Sysi, what the A stand for when you do a aptitude search ?
[19:10] <lighta> ludo182, ce canal est juste anglais pm moi
[19:11] <subuntu> lighta, sorry this box dfon
[19:11] <subuntu> 'box dont have sound din't notice you comment
[19:12] <subuntu> lighta, no din't succeed, i am on the target machine now, running the live disk
[19:12] <lighta> I was asking you if you succed with your issue ?
[19:12] <lighta> ok
[19:13] <lighta> I was trying myself and all I can tell you is on big line you had from aptitude search
[19:13] <lighta> the one who got i on front are those who are installed
[19:14] <lighta> if this could help you
[19:14] <subuntu> no, i could not uninstall the invidia drivers
[20:01] <JasperNL_Laptop> ah :D
[20:01] <JasperNL_Laptop> perfect ;)
[20:01] <JasperNL_Laptop> anyone can help me:O
[20:02] <lighta> JasperNL_Laptop, don't ask to ask just ask
[20:02] <JasperNL_Laptop> hmm o_O
[20:02] <JasperNL_Laptop> i can't open a app which has to run at normal Ubuntu
[20:03] <lighta> did you gave him the right to run ?
[20:03] <JasperNL_Laptop> uhm, i did right-mousebutton and then
[20:03] <JasperNL_Laptop> rmb -> properties -> permissions
[20:04] <JasperNL_Laptop> everything on Read & Write, Group: Admin and Program [v] Allow this file to run as program
[20:04] <moetunes> start the app from a terminal and look for errors JasperNL_Laptop
[20:05] <JasperNL_Laptop> where can i find the terminal :$
[20:05] <JasperNL_Laptop> in CentOS he was easy to find o,o but i don't find him here >_>
[20:05] <lighta> right clik > terminal
[20:05] <JasperNL_Laptop> >_< that was easy
[20:06] <lighta> well it is
[20:06] <JasperNL_Laptop> now i need to navigate to Documents -> app-map -> app?
[20:07] <lighta>  give axact path but you can do it like this cd /go/on/this/path
[20:07] <JasperNL_Laptop> It's in my Documents Directory o,o
[20:08] <JasperNL_Laptop> other idea ;) move to the map and do there open terminal XD
[20:08] <lighta> then you could probably just use cd ./Documents
[20:08] <lighta> yes
[20:08] <JasperNL_Laptop> hmm
[20:08] <JasperNL_Laptop> ok, i'm still there, how to run it?
[20:08] <JasperNL_Laptop> just the application name doesn't work :<
[20:09] <lighta> is it a sh ?
[20:09] <JasperNL_Laptop> sh ?
[20:09] <lighta> I guess no
[20:09] <JasperNL_Laptop> it's a small-CPU server console program ;)
[20:10] <lighta> don't you have to run it on root ? try sudo name ?
[20:10] <JasperNL_Laptop> run on root o.o
[20:10] <JasperNL_Laptop> so on properties permissions: groups: root
[20:10] <JasperNL_Laptop> ?
[20:11] <lighta> no just type sudo progname in terminal
[20:11] <lighta> I don't really know graphic thing
[20:11] <JasperNL_Laptop> hmmm
[20:11] <JasperNL_Laptop> sudo mta-server
[20:11] <JasperNL_Laptop> sudo: mta -server: command not found
[20:13] <subuntu> how can i install remote help assistant in the livecd version?
[20:14] <JasperNL_Laptop> I don't know o.o
[20:15] <moetunes> JasperNL_Laptop: you will have to rename the app to mta_server
[20:16] <JasperNL_Laptop> ok ;)
[20:16] <JasperNL_Laptop> renamed o,o
[20:16] <JasperNL_Laptop> but he says:Command not found
[20:17] <JasperNL_Laptop> so i think the problem isn't the arguement (mta-server) but sudo o.o
[20:17] <moetunes> JasperNL_Laptop: no - the terminal read the command as mta with the option -server
[20:18] <JasperNL_Laptop> ah;)
[20:18] <moetunes> JasperNL_Laptop: chmod +x ./mta_server
[20:19] <JasperNL_Laptop> sudo: mta_server: commandn ot found
[20:19] <JasperNL_Laptop> same bug when i do sudo
[20:20] <JasperNL_Laptop> it doensn't need to be /sudo?
[20:20] <moetunes> maybe no - make sure the file is in the directory the terminal is in
[20:20] <moetunes> do   ls - l
[20:20] <JasperNL_Laptop> ls -l ?
[20:21] <JasperNL_Laptop> ah ;)
[20:21] <JasperNL_Laptop> i see something
[20:21] <moetunes> it will list the dir with each files permissions
[20:21] <JasperNL_Laptop> ye ;) mta_server doesn't have the permissions which mta-server have ;)
[20:21] <JasperNL_Laptop> so i need to do chmod ?
[20:22] <moetunes> JasperNL_Laptop: chmod +x ./mta_server
[20:23] <lighta> chmod or the graphic thing you did for other same thing
[20:23] <JasperNL_Laptop> mta_server has the permisisons now: -rwxr-xr-x
[20:23] <moetunes> run it then
[20:24] <moetunes> I have to go - bye
[20:24] <JasperNL_Laptop> ok
[20:24] <lighta> did it run ?
[20:24] <JasperNL_Laptop> no :<
[20:24] <lighta> no error nothing ?
[20:26] <JasperNL_Laptop> i can't run him in the explorer
[20:31] <lighta> hmm was it an archive or something like that ?
[20:33] <JasperNL_Laptop> o,o
[20:33] <JasperNL_Laptop> no, it was just a direcotry?
[20:33] <lighta> I wondering if it's a real prog or you musn't ./configue or majefile something
[20:35] <JasperNL_Laptop> o.o
[20:35] <JasperNL_Laptop> can i send it to you?
[20:36] <lighta> hmm ok
[20:36] <JasperNL_Laptop> where can i host him?
[20:37] <lighta> right click on my name and use send a file
[20:38] <JasperNL_Laptop> wow o,o i didn't know that that can in IRCo,o
[20:43] <JasperNL_Laptop> owh:<
[20:48] <JasperNL_Laptop> VODAFONE /O_O
[20:50] <lighta> I don't received anything JasperNL_Laptop
[20:51] <JasperNL_Laptop> i know o.o anything with  connection timed out
[20:51] <JasperNL_Laptop> maybe now?
[20:52] <lighta> check pm
[23:51] <jimisrvrox> hey guys im trying to dual boot xubuntu and xp for a friend of mine and im in Gparted but the whole disk is flagged as boot and so im trying to part it in half to install xubuntu...'
[23:51] <jimisrvrox> and so its not allowing me to resize the partition
[23:52] <Sysi> did you defrag xp?
[23:53] <Sysi> \that partition
[23:53] <jimisrvrox> no I havent defraged xp
[23:53] <jimisrvrox> are you saying that I should resize the partition in XP first
[23:54] <jimisrvrox> I was thinking about that I had seen some instructions that you had to do that first or something like that
[23:54] <Sysi> i say that you can't shrink "full" partition
[23:55] <Sysi> or does it give some error message?
[23:55] <jimisrvrox> right its not allowing me to srink it
[23:55] <jimisrvrox> shrink*
[23:56] <jimisrvrox> what if I took the boot flag off of it could I resize it then?
[23:58] <jimisrvrox> also Sysi im getting that 46 clusters are referenced multiple times and saying to run chkdsk /f on windows


[14:06] <raidensnake> hey
[14:06] <raidensnake> does anyone know how I can get ubuntu running on the pi 4?
[14:08] <raidensnake> it doesn't want to boot.
[14:38] <ogra> i can only offer you an ubuntu core image ... https://people.canonical.com/~ogra/snappy/raspberrypi4/core18/
[15:42] <raidensnake> is it 64-bit?
[15:42] <ogra> urgh, no, why would it
[15:42] <ogra> (i like my ram)
[15:43] <raidensnake> 64-bit has the ram fixed
[15:43] <ogra> ??
[15:43] <raidensnake> the kernel had the 4Gb memory issue fixed.
[15:43] <ogra> 64bit binaries allocate about twice as much ram with no extra benefit
[15:43] <ogra> (due to the bigger word size)
[15:44] <ogra> so effectively you only waste space by running 64bit on a device with <= 4GB ...
[15:45] <ogra> unless the binaries are actually optimized for 64bit, you wont really have any benefit from running 64bit stuff on a board like this ...
[15:48]  * satellit only rpi4 using 64 bit I have found: https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Fedora_31#Manjaro-ARM-xfce-rpi4
[15:48] <ogra> oh and i didnt know there were memory issues ... my image works with 4GB since july... and is stable
[15:48] <satellit> have rpi4 4GB here
[15:49] <ogra> same here
[15:49]  * satellit manjaro uses only 3 GB
[15:50] <ogra> ogra@pi4:~$ free -m|grep Mem
[15:50] <ogra> Mem:           3892         324        2055          23        1512        3506
[15:50] <ogra> well, some is allocated to the GPU by default