[07:08] <ppisati> morning *
[07:12] <smb> morning .+
[07:41] <ppisati> smb: i'm looking @ your comments for 1082
[07:46] <smb> Thanks for letting me know. ;)
[07:46] <cking> morning too
[07:47] <smb> only one more in this tz
[07:53] <ppisati> did apw already leave?
[07:53] <smb> ppisati, Usually not as long as ckins is here
[07:54] <ppisati> ah ok
[07:54] <smb> ppisati, But you remember him leaving for the pub yesterday... >:-)
[07:55] <ppisati> uhmmm... are you implying he could still be there? :)
[07:56] <smb> Unlikely with the way English pubs close down. Rather implying some after-effect. :)
[07:56] <ppisati> ah right, i keep forgetting the bell
[08:04] <cking> ppisati, apw is flying out tomorrow
[08:05] <smb> cking, likely in the seat next to you I assume. :)
[08:05] <cking> unless BA mess up
[08:05] <smb> Or goes on strike...
[08:06]  * smb read about AF strike and hopes the AF marketed DL flight he is on will be unaffected
[08:16]  * ppisati ponders goig to the post office...
[08:27]  * ppisati stops ponderating and goes... back in a bit
[08:46]  * apw didn't leave, just feelig very well today
[08:46] <smb> not?
[08:47] <apw> indeed
[08:47]  * smb hopes it wasn't the one apw had to drink for him
[08:47] <apw> heh no, nothing like that
[08:48] <smb> Oh good... and bad
[08:48] <smb> apw, Try to recover. There is enough pain tomorrow
[08:51] <soren> smb: Travel?
[08:51] <smb> soren, Yep, its that time again. :)
[08:52] <soren> smb: Indeed. I hope Air France isn't involved in your trip?
[08:52] <smb> soren, It is at least for selling the flight. Its operated by Delta. I hope that helps me to get there
[08:53] <soren> Probably.
[08:56] <apw> with the number of people coming, it'll affect somewone
[08:57] <apw> may even trap some at ELC
[08:58] <soren> apw: What's ELC?
[08:58] <smb> At least there is something flying and not nothing like when the volcano stroke
[08:58] <apw> its not quite elc, the embedded thing thats going on in budapesht or somewhere like there
[08:59] <smb> apw, kernel summit even?
[08:59] <soren> Oh, it's an event. Got it. I thought it was an airport code I didn't know :)
[09:00] <apw> ahh sorry, i can see how it might seem to be one of those
[09:59]  * ppisati has just bought a ton of paracetamol...
[10:36] <jk-> ppisati: preparing for UDS? good plan. :)
[10:36] <ppisati> ppisati: well, actually i've a cold... really... :)
[10:40] <smb> Oh great, one more talking to himself and planning to contribute to the big ubuflu. :-P
[11:46] <rocky> hey can anyone help me in kernel debugging?
[11:48] <apw_> its best to just ask your question or describe problem, as dfferent people have different spcialisms
[11:51] <apw_> rocky ^^
[12:56] <ppisati> smb: so, in the end, where do we meet at the airport?
[12:57] <smb> ppisati, I'd suggest the fountain on level 3 of the main terminal building. Lacking any real feedback there
[12:57] <smb> If you find the people travelling with you, you can try dragging them along
[13:04] <apw> smb, meeting this end or that :)
[13:05] <smb> apw, hard to say with a round fountain... :-P But I guess you meant her or over there. So in Orlando. :)
[13:05] <apw> ahh you guys landing similar times, cool
[13:07] <smb> Yep, there seem to be a few more on his plane, but only one answered to email and did not confirm anything after I proposed the fountain instead of the food court in favour of likely less cramped space
[13:07] <smb> So maybe only  the two of us will meet
[13:08] <ppisati> smb: fountain, level 3, main terminal, ack
[13:08] <ppisati> smb: i'll drag my butt and my virus over there :)
[13:09] <smb> ppisati, I would not mind if you lost the virus while walking there... :)
[13:09] <ppisati> smb: i'll try, but i can't guarantee :)
[13:10] <cking> smb, you gotta cold?
[13:11] <smb> cking, Not *me*
[13:11] <smb> Or not xyet
[13:11] <cking> looks like we arrive at level 3 and the shuttle bus is on level 1
[13:11] <smb> Hearing all those wonderful announcments of cold, stomach bugs and coughs, I am not sure about after the event
[13:12] <ppisati> :)
[13:12] <cking> ubuflu
[13:12]  * ppisati spread the disease, Anthrax!
[13:12] <cking> the sunshine, pool + beers will help
[13:12] <smb> cking, maybe we need moonshine for that. :-P
[13:14] <cking> heh
[13:35] <tgardner> sconklin, when is the next packaging cycle for Hardy ? I want to wait on any major packaging changes until a logical time, plus I'd like to talk to Andy about his ideas.
[13:36] <apw> cking, you are assuming it will be nice.  2-5 inches of rain forcast for sunday
[13:36] <cking> really?
[13:36] <tgardner> holy smokes. 2-5 ? that is a bunch.
[13:36] <cking> Better pack a mac
[13:37] <apw> oh thats over the weekend and "into early next week" -- so a 3-4 day period
[13:37] <apw> citainly a raincoat in your packing is essential
[13:38] <tgardner> at least its pretty warm
[13:38] <apw> tgardner, isn't that brad and herton's bag now
[13:38] <tgardner> apw, bjf doesn't start until after UDS IIRC
[13:38] <apw> ahh
[13:39] <tgardner> and herton is on vacation
[13:39] <apw> man a 60% chance of rain on saturday, 10% on sunday, 50% on monday ...
[13:39] <apw> not going to be as nice as last time by a long way
[13:39] <cking> sad trombone
[13:40] <tgardner> apw, Tues 77 and clear
[13:40] <apw> weather.com says 24c and 'few showers' with a huge cloud
[13:40] <apw> i like your weather better
[13:40] <tgardner> http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=orlando%2Cfl
[13:41] <jsalisbury> anything is better than the snow we got here yesterday :-)
[13:41]  * apw hopes jsalisbury isn't already there
[13:41] <jsalisbury> apw, heh, no
[13:41] <tgardner> apw, jsalisburyis closer to the artic circle
[13:41]  * jsalisbury had to find the ice scraper this morning :-/
[14:08]  * ogasawara back in 20
[14:21] <sconklin> tgardner: we're about to wrap up a cycle for the kernels, except that Oneiric has a regression we're still bisecting.
[14:22] <sconklin> we can either crank out a new hardy with the patches in -next and start the refactor fresh, or hols with what we have
[14:22] <sconklin> s/hols/hold/
[14:22] <smb> sconklin, Does that include a Lucid one?
[14:23] <sconklin> Lucid is currently awaitign copy to -updates, so it has passed everything and is done as far as we care for this cycle
[14:23] <sconklin> http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html
[14:24] <smb> Ah, ok, well then I have enough time to come up with the reverts I just found to be helpful (has been around since the previous update anyway)
[14:24] <sconklin> And just because this is a good time to post the link again, there's a wealth of information in these reports:
[14:24] <sconklin> http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/
[14:24] <sconklin> smb: sounds ok
[14:36] <apw> sconklin, the regression under bug #880476 sounds a lot like a grub change, as it is no longer using UUIDs
[14:36] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 880476 in linux "after update to kernel 3.0.0-13 ubuntu 11.10 does not start" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/880476
[14:37] <apw> sconklin, note it is using root=/dev/sda7 on the -13 boot entries, but UUID=xxx on the others, that seems wrong to me
[14:40] <sconklin> apw: and did you see the last entry from the reporter?
[14:41] <apw> sconklin, that is an odd message, and makes me worry about his while initrd on that machine
[14:42] <apw> i'd love to see him try booting with root=UUID=xxx from the -12 image
[14:42] <sconklin> yes, I'm not sure what to tell him. I think that he has problems beyond the 13 kernel
[14:42] <sconklin> apw: feel free to update the bug or I can. The more the merrier
[14:42] <apw> my uptodate machine with -13 is still using the UUID= form
[14:42] <apw> so its not a generic change
[14:46] <apw> sconklin, done
[14:49] <sconklin> apw: it is strange - I wonder if this is going to be one of those "well, I did change something" bugs
[14:52] <apw> sconklin, yeah well he even says he notes that the grub entry differs
[14:53] <apw> cjwatson, is there a common cause of grub switching from using root=UUID=x to root=/dev/sda7 style notations ?
[15:03] <jwi> bug 862121 seems to report the same issue after upgrading from -11 to -12
[15:03] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 862121 in linux "Kernel panic - not syncing: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on unknown-block(0,0)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/862121
[15:25] <slangasek> tgardner: so we have some debugging logs from the initramfs now on bug #842560, and it's making me scratch my head... the kernel is asking for the firmware to be loaded and unloaded twice, for each card?
[15:25] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 842560 in linux "bnx2 firmware missing" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/842560
[15:28] <tgardner> slangasek, yes, each adapter will request a firmware file. even though its the same driver, the adapters may require different firmware files depending on model.
[15:28] <slangasek> tgardner: yes, but I'm seeing two load/unload events for *each adapter*
[15:28] <slangasek> for the same firmware file
[15:28] <slangasek> that looks screwy to me
[15:29] <tgardner> slangasek, as far as I can tell from the source the firmware file is only requested once per adapter
[15:29] <tgardner> you're sure your debug is correct ?
[15:29] <slangasek> tgardner: I'm sure the debugging is what udev is seeing from the event queue
[15:30] <slangasek> this is the output of 'udevadm -e monitor', launched before udevd in the initramfs
[15:31] <tgardner> slangasek, apw is a bit more familiar with this sequence as he helped debug the last time we had udev issues. apw - are you around ?
[15:35] <tgardner> slangasek, could it be asking for a version that doesn't exist? Some of the wireless drivers at least support multiple firmware versions and kind of walk down the list until they find one.
[15:36] <tgardner> guess I could look at the log myself
[15:36] <slangasek> tgardner: unless I've gone cross-eyed, the requested file is one that does exist; and it does seem to get loaded the first time around
[15:37] <apw> hmm
[15:41] <apw> slangasek, there only seem to be 4 sets of add remote, two pairs per firmware file, which would be like one per adapter
[15:41] <apw> one *set* per adapter
[15:43] <slangasek> apw: how many adapters are you seeing?  I see only two: /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:02.0/0000:06:00.0/0000:07:00.0/0000:08:00.0/0000:09:00.0, /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1c.0/0000:04:00.0/0000:05:00.0
[15:43] <apw> slangasek, bear in mind you see each event _twice_
[15:43] <apw> KERNEL[2.684135] add      /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1c.0/0000:04:00.0/0000:05:00.0/firmware/0000:05:00.0 (firmware)
[15:43] <apw> UDEV  [2.686525] add      /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1c.0/0000:04:00.0/0000:05:00.0/firmware/0000:05:00.0 (firmware)
[15:43] <slangasek> apw: that's not the doubling I'm talking about
[15:43] <apw> note the KERNEL and UDEV prefixes
[15:43] <slangasek> there are two *kernel* add/remove firmware events for *each* device
[15:44] <slangasek> and two *udev* add/remove firmware events for each device
[15:45] <slangasek> KERNEL[2.200968] add      /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:02.0/0000:06:00.0/0000:07:00.0/0000:08:00.0/0000:09:00.0/firmware/0000:09:00.0 (firmware)
[15:45] <slangasek> KERNEL[2.202933] remove   /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:02.0/0000:06:00.0/0000:07:00.0/0000:08:00.0/0000:09:00.0/firmware/0000:09:00.0 (firmware)
[15:45] <slangasek> KERNEL[2.202957] add      /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:02.0/0000:06:00.0/0000:07:00.0/0000:08:00.0/0000:09:00.0/firmware/0000:09:00.0 (firmware)
[15:45] <slangasek> KERNEL[2.204762] remove   /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:02.0/0000:06:00.0/0000:07:00.0/0000:08:00.0/0000:09:00.0/firmware/0000:09:00.0 (firmware)
[15:45] <slangasek> and the same for the other adapter
[15:45] <slangasek> SEQNUM 1358,1359,1360,1361
[15:46] <slangasek> oh
[15:46] <slangasek> no, I'm sorry, they are different firmware file requests
[15:46] <apw> FIRMWARE=bnx2/bnx2-mips-06-6.2.1.fw
[15:46] <apw> FIRMWARE=bnx2/bnx2-rv2p-06-6.0.15.fw
[15:46] <slangasek> FIRMWARE=bnx2/bnx2-mips-06-6.2.1.fw vs FIRMWARE=bnx2/bnx2-rv2p-06-6.0.15.fw
[15:46] <slangasek> yah
[15:46] <slangasek> ok
[15:46] <apw> right the card has two lots of firmware
[15:46] <slangasek> but what are the removal requests for?
[15:46] <slangasek> it decided it didn't like the firmware after all?
[15:46] <apw> as i understand ti the firmware device only appears for a short period while the firmware is needed
[15:46] <slangasek> ah
[15:47] <apw> and the goes away, the firmware remains in memory
[15:47] <apw> i beliebe the remove effectivly tells us the load completed
[15:47] <slangasek> right... but then after all is said and done the kernel is saying it was unable to load the firmware
[15:48] <slangasek> seems like a bug on the kernel side to me
[15:48] <slangasek> because we're seeing complete pairs of add/remove for each firmware file on each adapter
[15:48] <apw> well that just means the load 'completed', it doesn't mean that it was successful
[15:48] <slangasek> yes, but if the load completed, that means it's no longer udev's problem, doesn't it?
[15:49] <apw> depends how 'ending load' is detected, and load complete might mean load went all horribly wrong
[15:49] <apw> i assume the second load here failed ?
[15:49] <apw> as normal ?
[15:49] <slangasek> the kernel "couldn't load firmware" error isn't happening for 60 seconds *after* these events
[15:49] <slangasek> i.e., when udev gets tired of waiting and kills off the modprobe
[15:50] <slangasek> "as normal"?  It does appear to be the second load that's failing
[15:50] <apw> the complaint is that the second card only fails
[15:50] <apw> and you added debug so i was making sure this debugged version failed too
[15:51] <slangasek> ah, I don't have the corresponding dmesg for this run, sorry
[15:52]  * slangasek requests it on the bug
[15:52]  * cking packs up for UDS..
[15:55] <apw> slangasek, do we even know it failed as this udev shows eth0 and eth1 queues appearing
[15:55] <slangasek> nope
[15:55] <slangasek> hence, requesting moreinfo on the bug
[15:56] <apw> slangasek, thanks, i am suspicious this is a timeing issue and your debug may have fixed it
[15:56] <slangasek> heh
[15:56] <slangasek> yeah, let's see
[16:24] <tgardner> apw, see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/882120/comments/3. Perhaps linux-image-extra-virtual needs a postinst rule.
[16:24] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 882120 in linux "reiserfs module missing in linux-image-virtual" [Undecided,Opinion]
[16:25] <apw> tgardner, possible indeed
[16:25] <tgardner> hmm, I wonder why LBM works
[16:25] <apw> i'll take a look, i may have missed something there
[16:26] <tgardner> apw, LBM has debian/rules.d/3-udebs.mk: /sbin/depmod -b $(udebdir) $$i;
[16:26] <tgardner> or rather:debian/control-scripts/postinst:    depmod -a -F /boot/System.map-@@KVER@@ @@KVER@@
[16:26] <apw> yeah i thought all of them had common postinst, but i may have failed to add it to that
[16:26] <apw> will have a look
[16:27] <tgardner> apw, np, I'll see if I can figure it out. you must be packing by now ?
[16:27] <apw> yeah ... just finished packing; have an engagement party to go to tonight, so i expect the flight will be excruciating
[16:28] <apw> if you haven't fixed it i'll look on the plane, there is nothing else to do
[16:28] <tgardner> apw, avoid the hangover :)
[16:28]  * apw places a plastic liner in his stomach
[17:12] <slangasek> apw, tgardner: (bug #842560) ps output attached now that shows the hanging modprobe -bv for the firmware, despite the udevadm logging showing the complete add/remove cycles
[17:12] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 842560 in linux "bnx2 firmware missing" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/842560
[18:00] <tyhicks> Does the kernel team have any plans to do some form of organized key signing @ UDS? (I hope to eventually get my kernel.org account set back up)
[18:01] <jjohansen> tyhicks: yes, there is a general need of key signing at uds
[18:01] <tgardner> tyhicks, there is a key signing party scheduled weds (?) night I think. at any rate, we can do it informally during UDS
[18:01] <jjohansen> we need to tie the kernel team into the web of trust
[18:02] <tyhicks> Sounds good - I'll try to keep weds evening open but grab folks informally, too
[18:02] <tyhicks> hallyn: you may be interested, too ^
[18:03] <hallyn> tyhicks, yes!  i generated a new key and wrote down the fingerprint to be ready for any keysigning party :)
[18:08] <sconklin> if you print and bring small pieces of paper (or better yet business cards) with your fingerprint on them, it makes it pretty easy to informally verify ID and exchange slips during lunch or beer or whatever
[18:12]  * tgardner -> lunch
[19:29] <beata|lemur> I'm having an issue with fixed disks over firewire: kernel sees the capacity, partition table..but then userspace sees zeros; fdisk, less -f, etc. If I stick a cdrom on the same adapter, can read and burn discs. I'll be trying same from the oneiric installer as soon as I can, but any ideas?
[19:41] <tgardner> ogasawara, I applied the postinit/postrm patch to precise. I think its worth another upload or the folks using the extras package will get mighty confused....
[19:41] <ogasawara> tgardner: ack


[00:00] <BryanLBasil> Okay.  Thanks anyway, beuno.  Sorry about the slow typing, everyone.  My hands are cold. :P
[00:00] <pleia2> BryanLBasil: I agree with beuno, great start but I'd like to see more sutained involvement +0
[00:00] <beuno> BryanLBasil, I'm an official Ubuntu translator for spanish, so I'll be very happy to help you out join the team
[00:01] <Technoviking> +) from me also, a great geat start, keep it up and you will be fine.
[00:01] <BryanLBasil> beuno: thanks a lot, that would be great.
[00:01] <beuno> smiley vote!
[00:01] <Technoviking> +0, sigh
[00:01] <nixternal> +1 from me
[00:01] <greg-g> BryanLBasil: I agree with everything about your current progress and future, I just want to see what you look like in 3 months. +0
[00:01] <pleia2> BryanLBasil: also, I noticed that a magazine is on your todo list - are you familiar with Full Circle Magazine and the new Ubuntu User Magazine?
[00:02] <BryanLBasil> pleia2: Those are virtual magazines, right?
[00:02] <pleia2> BryanLBasil: Ubuntu User is print
[00:02] <BryanLBasil> pleia2: Any way that I can contribute?
[00:02] <pleia2> BryanLBasil: Linux Pro Magazine released it, presumably you'd go through them
[00:02] <BryanLBasil> Are they on LP?
[00:02] <BryanLBasil> Great.
[00:10] <nixternal> anyone else?
[00:10] <nixternal> vote wise that is
[00:10] <BryanLBasil> May I suggest something, while I'm in a room full of ubuntu members? ;-)
[00:10] <nixternal> go for it
[00:11] <BryanLBasil> On the /Membership page on the ubuntu wiki, it mentions that you should have at least 2 months of sustained contribution.
[00:11] <nixternal> I think everyone was waiting for you to catch up on answers and made it a bit quiet in here for you to do so :)
[00:11] <BryanLBasil> But it seems that over time,
[00:11] <BryanLBasil> that expected time period has increased.
[00:11] <pleia2> BryanLBasil: I'd really like to see you get more involved with the Georgia LoCo team and have some solid contributions to the Marketing team as well :)
[00:11] <BryanLBasil> I can't help but feel I've wasted your time
[00:12] <beuno> BryanLBasil, I agree
[00:12] <BryanLBasil> So, if it could be changed to, say, 6 months, meetings would go by a lot faster.
[00:12] <beuno> we need to look into that
[00:12] <Vantrax> That is a pretty fair observation BryanLBasil, I have seen that as well. Perhaps that does need to be looked at
[00:12] <nixternal> BryanLBasil: oh heck no dude, you didn't waste my time...I am grabbing some wallpapers from ya now :)
[00:12] <BryanLBasil> nixternal: haha. :-)
[00:13] <nellery> Perhaps someone should bring that up with the CC?
[00:13] <greg-g> BryanLBasil: not at all. In fact, I think your contributions to the Answers tracker and your plans make you a good candidate, but I can't really +1 for what I've seen thus far.
[00:13] <BryanLBasil> greg-g: Don't worry.  I'll be back soon if it doesn't happen today. :P
[00:13] <beuno> BryanLBasil, but I still think you need to get a little bit more involved, polish those translations, make a few more connections in the community, etc.  You're a great candidate, and if you keep this up, you will wizz through here in 3 months
[00:14] <beuno> BryanLBasil, you've applied for all the right reasons, and you should be proud of your accomplishments
[00:14] <greg-g> BryanLBasil: and I'll be waiting for you :)
[00:14] <Technoviking> nellery: I will
[00:14] <nixternal> BryanLBasil: I don't think they weren't saying you didn't have enough time in, you obviously do, they just wanted to see a bit more sustainability and more/cleaner involvement
[00:14] <nixternal> your time is good, I just think they have misworded their responses
[00:15] <BryanLBasil> beuno: Thanks a lot. Sorry I didn't see that sooner.
[00:16] <BryanLBasil> nixternal: Ah.
[00:16] <BryanLBasil> :-)
[00:16] <beuno> BryanLBasil, you've done something very valuable today, which is bring up the 2 month rule to our attention. Now we have work to do. So thank you
[00:16] <nixternal> I am from Chicago, and thus far I am the only one to not muck up the english tongiht :p
[00:16]  * nixternal runs and hides
[00:16] <bratsche> heh
[00:16] <BryanLBasil> "tongiht"?
[00:16] <nixternal> shush
[00:16] <nixternal> hahaha
[00:17] <nixternal> that's how we spell it here in Chicago
[00:17] <BryanLBasil> Sure, sure.
[00:17] <ajmitch> nixternal: things are different there, aren't they?
[00:17] <nixternal> everything is different here
[00:17] <bratsche> Their fingers freeze off in the cold, so it's to be expected that they can't type. ;)
[00:18] <nixternal> nice one
[00:18] <ajmitch> my fingers are just about frozen now :P
[00:18] <nhandler> bratsche: Only some of us can't type ;)
[00:18] <BryanLBasil> +1
[00:21] <nixternal> OK, I am back
[00:23] <nixternal> hello? am I the only one here now?
[00:23] <bratsche> Hi :)
[00:24] <nixternal> hehe
[00:24] <boredandblogging> nixternal: think we lost quorum
[00:24] <greg-g> we may have just lost quorum, unfortunately, we're trying to find another person
[00:24] <nixternal> uh oh
[00:24] <bratsche> :(
[00:24] <greg-g> but it doesn't look good :(
[00:25] <BryanLBasil> Was I the last person to show up?
[00:25] <bratsche> No.
[00:26] <bratsche> I think I'm next.
[00:26] <pleia2> yeah, bratsche you'll be next if we can get quorum
[00:26] <greg-g> we have bratsche left, but it isn't looking like we'll be able to vote, or at least, have the vote count
[00:26] <boredandblogging> bratsche: yeah, just trying to get quorum
[00:26] <bratsche> Yeah I know.
[00:26]  * bratsche waits patiently :)
[00:26] <greg-g> thanks :)
[00:29] <zehrique> greg-g: may I vote for now on?
[00:29] <bratsche> I think you have to be on the membership board.
[00:30] <nixternal> zehrique: ya, have to be on a RMB
[00:30] <greg-g> zehrique: no, only the board members are able to vote. But thanks for the offer :)
[00:30] <nixternal> we are trying to track other RMB members from other parts of the world
[00:30] <nhandler> zehrique: Voting is restricted to the membership board, but you can still express your support for people applying to become members
[00:30] <zehrique> OK, guys. Thanks for the feedback.
[00:31] <zehrique> :)
[00:32] <greg-g> bratsche: finding the quorum is proving difficult. I think we're going to have to end this meeting, unfortunately.
[00:32] <bratsche> :(
[00:33] <greg-g> sorry about that
[00:33] <bratsche> Yeah, I understand.
[00:33] <bratsche> Is there another meeting scheduled soon?
[00:33] <greg-g> that I am unsure of.
[00:33] <BryanLBasil> EMEA is
[00:33] <BryanLBasil> on the 7th.
[00:34] <bratsche> Or if not, could I present my case and another member of the board could vote later or something?
[00:34] <greg-g> actually, one moment.....
[00:34] <nixternal> persia: around at all with a few minutes to spare?
[00:34] <BryanLBasil> bratsche: If this doesn't work out, and you don't want to wait for the next Americas, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/EMEA
[00:35] <nixternal> lifeless, elky? few minutes to help out finish up one more member for this evening?
[00:37] <nhandler> So, are we going to wait and see if we can pull a member from the Asia membership board? Or are we just going to end the meeting?
[00:37] <nixternal> we are trying, but it isn't looking good
[00:37] <nixternal> hate to leave 1 hanging
[00:37] <bratsche> Thanks for trying!  If it doesn't work out then I understand.
[00:38] <Vantrax> thats a little disapppointing, is it usually difficult?
[00:39] <pleia2> Vantrax: well, the meeting went over an hour, we tend to lose quorum after that
[00:39] <pleia2> were hoping to get through more, but :\
[00:39] <Vantrax> fair enough
[00:40] <nixternal> would be cool if we could deputize people :p
[00:40] <bratsche> heh
[00:40] <nellery> how many do you need?
[00:40] <nixternal> probably 100 ;p
[00:40] <Vantrax> isnt that the CC's job nixternal
[00:40] <wiebelhaus> You guys must have called me and I missed it?
[00:40] <nixternal> hrmm, what about Kubuntu Council members?
[00:41] <nixternal> hehe
[00:41] <bratsche> Uh oh, then I have no chance to make it ;)
[00:41] <bratsche> hehe
[00:41] <nhandler> What about MC ;)
[00:41] <nixternal> nhandler: ya
[00:41] <nixternal> if we can do MC then we have nhandler
[00:43] <pleia2> ok, sorry folks, we're going to have to end the meeting
[00:43] <pleia2> we're going to shoot for having another in 2 weeks :) so watch the board page for the meeting time update
[00:43] <bratsche> pleia2: Cool, thanks very much!
[00:44] <greg-g> bratsche: see you in 2 weeks! :)
[00:44] <bratsche> See you then!
[00:44] <BryanLBasil> nixternal: can you start a chat with me?
[00:44] <nixternal> isn't like bratsche is going anywhere
[00:44] <nixternal> BryanLBasil: can we do it a bit later, I have a date in which I am close to being late for :_)
[00:44] <BryanLBasil> Ah.  Understandable. :-)
[00:44] <nixternal> hehe, at least someone understands :)
[00:44] <BryanLBasil> Of course.
[00:45] <bratsche> I'm going to guadec, but I think that's over by then.
[00:45] <nixternal> you mean the Desktop Summit, it isn't all about GNOME for once ;p
[00:45]  * nixternal runs really fast before getting beat up
[00:45] <bratsche> heh
[00:45]  * bratsche hides
[00:46] <bratsche> I believe the official term for it now is Guademy! ;)
[00:47] <bratsche> Maybe I can boost my Karma in 2 weeks.  I was blown away by BryanLBasil's karma. :)
[00:47] <greg-g> bratsche: get to answering questions :)
[00:48] <BryanLBasil> bratsche: Thanks. :-) I remember I did a couple of translations and had 52 karma, and the day after I answered some questions, I had 470+. haha.
[00:48] <bratsche> So far most of the work I've been doing is for upstream, but now I'm starting on something hosted in Launchpad bzr.. more karma, here I come! ;)
[00:49] <BryanLBasil> Good luck. :-)
[00:50] <bratsche> Thanks!
[00:50] <bratsche> See you all in a couple weeks!
[03:42] <Coringao> Hello everyone, sorry for being late. :(
[16:00] <evand1> hi-a
[16:00] <robbiew> #startmeeting
[16:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 10:00. The chair is robbiew.
[16:00] <robbiew> howdy
[16:00] <robbiew> evand1/evand: hi
[16:00] <robbiew> lol
[16:00] <mvo> !
[16:00] <evand1> heh
[16:00] <mterry> Hello!
[16:00] <al-maisan> :)
[16:01] <xivulon> hi
[16:01] <Keybuk> yo!
[16:02] <cjwatson> hello
[16:02] <robbiew> james_w: awake?
[16:02] <james_w> hi!
[16:02] <robbiew> ;)
[16:02] <james_w> I am now
[16:02] <robbiew> liw and slangasek are out
[16:02] <robbiew> so...let's start
[16:03] <robbiew> [TOPIC] DebianImportFreeze
[16:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  DebianImportFreeze
[16:03] <robbiew> merge merge merge!!!
[16:03]  * Keybuk considers putting together a list of people and the number of merges they have done
[16:04] <robbiew> cjwatson: anything to add?
[16:04] <Keybuk> (just for dholbach revenge <g>)
[16:04] <dholbach> Keybuk: hu?
[16:04] <dholbach> ah ok
[16:04] <robbiew> dholbach: sponsorship vs merges
[16:04] <robbiew> ;)
[16:04] <dholbach> ... whatever :)
[16:04] <mterry> Is it useful for me to do merges then sub sponsors, or is sponsoring almost as much work as doing the merge onself?
[16:04] <dholbach> more sponsoring!
[16:05] <cjwatson> personally I find sponsoring merges to be about the same amount of work as doing the merge myself
[16:05] <cjwatson> that doesn't mean it's necessarily a bad thing, since it encourages new contributors
[16:05] <cjwatson> robbiew: nothing in particular :)
[16:06] <cjwatson> we have 65 packages in main that have not yet been merged
[16:06] <robbiew> :/
[16:06] <cjwatson> some of those aren't a big deal
[16:06] <evand1> 64, I merged partman-efi not too long ago
[16:07] <robbiew> k...moving on
[16:07] <robbiew> [TOPIC] glibc
[16:07] <MootBot> New Topic:  glibc
[16:07] <robbiew> doko is in OEM...so....
[16:07] <cjwatson> frex the Debian changes to tasksel are basically just Debian task changes irrelevant to us; installation-guide doesn't really matter urgently; kernel-wedge is typically more trouble than it's worth
[16:07] <cjwatson> etc. but everything ought to have been looked at
[16:08] <robbiew> who's "interested" in looking after glibc this cycle...I believe we need to update to a new version, no?
[16:08] <robbiew> 2.10
[16:09] <doko> we should. it's easy if we decide on eglibc, it requires re-merging if we stay with glibc
[16:09]  * mterry feels like he should, as he kicked doko out
[16:09] <robbiew> heh
[16:09] <mterry> doko, a decision didn't happen at UDS?
[16:10] <robbiew> no
[16:10] <robbiew> which means (to me) that we stay on glibc this cycle...and move for Karmic+1
[16:10] <doko> the "difficulty" will be not to drop patches which are not in glibc but in eglibc. and then watch the eglibc commits, what Debian does submit to eglibc ...
[16:11] <mterry> doko, i.e. apply all patches to eglibc to glibc?
[16:11] <robbiew> do we NEED to update this cycle?
[16:12] <cjwatson> there's zero point in just applying patches from eglibc to glibc, IMO
[16:12] <cjwatson> if we're going to merge we should merge; otherwise we should stay where we are
[16:12] <cjwatson> no point in a halfway house
[16:12] <doko> and no poing in glibc-2.10?
[16:13] <robbiew> or is it just something that would be nice...if doko was around fulltime on the team
[16:13] <robbiew> especially since I think the LTS is going to be 10.10
[16:13] <cjwatson> the idea of somebody new to glibc attempting to construct a glibc 2.10 package without help from Debian does not fill me with enthusiasm
[16:13]  * robbiew is apparently typing to himself :/
[16:13] <cjwatson> (the package in Debian experimental is eglibc 2.10 ...)
[16:14] <doko> well, if 10.10 is the lts, then we maybe can stay with 2.9 for now
[16:14] <cjwatson> my personal preference would be to merge up to what Debian currently ship
[16:14] <cjwatson> and leave it at that, modulo bugfixes
[16:15] <cjwatson> (i.e. eglibc 2.9)
[16:15] <robbiew> ok...so I suppose we don't touch glibc this cycle,  since I can't seem to find enough interest to do so
[16:15] <cjwatson> but emphasis on personal
[16:16] <doko> cjwatson: but using eglibc? fine with me, but I remember we did decide else ...
[16:16] <robbiew> [TOPIC] Karmic Status and Roadmap
[16:16] <robbiew> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
[16:16] <robbiew> I've deferred a few more features
[16:16] <robbiew> and have things in order...pretty much
[16:16] <MootBot> New Topic:  Karmic Status and Roadmap
[16:16] <cjwatson> doko: we failed to decide, AFAICS, despite various attempts to do so
[16:16]  * robbiew is apparently having weird irc issues
[16:18] <doko> cjwatson: whoever works on this, there are currently three different branches on lp (glibc-2.9, eglibc-2.9, eglibc-2.10)
[16:18] <mterry> robbiew, you've dropped status colors a couple times in that wiki.  Was that intentional?
[16:19] <cjwatson> I think I might have put the status colors in the wrong column, but ...
[16:20] <robbiew> mterry: yes...moved deferred items to a separate section
[16:20] <robbiew> and the red was really to highlight no owners
[16:20] <robbiew> my status was in alpha stage ;)
[16:20] <robbiew> now the colors will stay or transition to the "previous status" area
[16:21] <mterry> robbiew, OK, there was a green status on the rsyslog thing twice, but it got dropped.  wasn't sure if I/cjwatson had been doing it wrong
[16:22] <robbiew> hmm
[16:22] <robbiew> maybe I overwrote it
[16:22]  * robbiew will be more careful
[16:23] <robbiew> in any case, I don't think anyone needs to worry about setting colors for their work...let me worry about that stuff ;)
[16:24] <cjwatson> ah, that's a relief, I hadn't been sure
[16:24] <robbiew> lol
[16:24] <robbiew> yeah...let the manager do that tedious crap ;)
[16:24] <robbiew> as a reminder, please try to put in milestones in your blueprints
[16:24] <cjwatson> ok, shall we just give updates in weekly catch-up calls then?
[16:25] <robbiew> cjwatson: yes....that was the plan
[16:25] <robbiew> some have calls only every two weeks
[16:25] <robbiew> but I can use irc quite well ;)
[16:25] <cjwatson> hah
[16:25] <robbiew> [TOPIC] Platform Sprint
[16:25] <MootBot> New Topic:  Platform Sprint
[16:26] <robbiew> book your tix
[16:26] <robbiew> and complete the wiki please
[16:26] <robbiew> http://wiki.canonical.com/UbuntuPlatform/Sprints/Karmic
[16:26] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://wiki.canonical.com/UbuntuPlatform/Sprints/Karmic
[16:26] <mterry> booked, will wiki later today
[16:27] <robbiew> whoops...the LTS update item was from last week :/
[16:27] <mterry> I have to skip the last day, fyi.  My poor planning
[16:27] <robbiew> mterry: you and Keybuk will be missed
[16:27] <robbiew> and assigned work
[16:27] <robbiew> :P
[16:27] <mterry> heh
[16:27] <robbiew> [TOPIC] Sponsorship Queue
[16:27] <MootBot> New Topic:  Sponsorship Queue
[16:28] <robbiew> that's all I'm going to say...we all know about it
[16:28] <robbiew> no sense in nagging too much ;)
[16:28] <robbiew> [TOPIC] Good News
[16:28] <MootBot> New Topic:  Good News
[16:28] <robbiew> any?
[16:28] <cjwatson> I trimmed a bunch of space off the live CD initrd
[16:29] <robbiew> the Debian guys didn't run away screaming from our Boot sprint
[16:29] <mvo> kernel-crashdumps progressing nicely (hopefully the reporting etc is all done now)
[16:29] <robbiew> cjwatson: woot!
[16:29] <robbiew> mvo: nice!
[16:29] <cjwatson> partly with generic improvements to various bits of initramfs software, partly by switching it over to lzma (though that doesn't quite seem to have stuck yet, I'll check into why). Total space gained is somewhere around 4MB
[16:30] <robbiew> [TOPIC] AOB?
[16:30] <MootBot> New Topic:  AOB?
[16:30]  * mterry doesn't know what "AOB" means
[16:30] <cjwatson> any other business
[16:30] <mterry> ah
[16:30] <cjwatson> both Robbie and I are going to be out on Friday
[16:31]  * doko is away now
[16:31] <cjwatson> robbiew: did we decide that slangasek would represent us at the release meeting, or do we need somebody else to do so?
[16:31] <robbiew> I think he is a proper rep ;)
[16:31] <robbiew> evand1 is also out Friday...and tomorrow
[16:31] <evand1> and monday
[16:31] <robbiew> or evand...whatever he calls himself
[16:31] <evand1> heh
[16:32] <robbiew> cjwatson: I'll remind slangasek tomorrow about our absence..since he'll be working UK hours
[16:32] <robbiew> #endmeeting
[16:32] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:32.
[16:32] <robbiew> that's all she wrote!
[16:32] <mvo> thanks
[16:33] <evand1> thanks
[16:33] <al-maisan> Cheerio!
[17:57] <heno> hello!
[17:57] <bdmurray> hi
[17:57]  * fader waves.
[17:57] <pedro_> hola!
[17:57] <eeejay> hey folks
[17:58] <cr3> eeejay: yo mama
[17:58]  * ogasawara waves
[17:58] <davmor2> hello
[17:58] <sbeattie> hey
[18:00] <heno> let's start!
[18:01] <heno> #startmeeting
[18:01] <MootBot> Meeting started at 12:01. The chair is heno.
[18:01] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[18:01] <heno> agenda as usual: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings
[18:01] <heno> UbuntuBugDay highlights -- pedro
[18:01] <pedro_> Last Thursday we had a hug day based on Empathy: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20090618
[18:02] <pedro_> was a good hug day for us, since the upstream maintainers were around to help us solving questions
[18:02] <pedro_> and we've submitted a good quantity of bugs upstream as well
[18:02] <heno> excellent!
[18:02] <pedro_> showard helped us during the hug day, kudos to him
[18:03] <pedro_> and tomorrow we're having a hug day based on Banshee : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20090625
[18:03] <heno> pedro_: should we have a bug day for 100 paper cuts?
[18:04] <pedro_> mm that's a good idea
[18:04] <heno> I understand there has been a flood of reports
[18:04] <heno> get the whole DUX team to triage them ;)
[18:04] <pedro_> yeap there's quite a lot of bug email noise coming from there
[18:04] <heno> I can speak with them tomorrow about that
[18:05] <pedro_> we're receiving a lot of bug mail from nautilus for example
[18:05] <heno> will a bug day just create more unwanted bug noise?
[18:05] <pedro_> most of them comments from users
[18:05] <pedro_> well we can at least help the DUX team to reduce the new bugs there
[18:05] <pedro_> there's ~280 new open bugs
[18:06] <pedro_> nah don't think it's going to generate even more noise, since the tasks are already open
[18:06] <pedro_> would be nice to have more eyes looking at those
[18:06] <heno> and help them understand the implications of blogging to request that people file more bugs about all their little annoyances ;)
[18:07] <pedro_> yes please ;-)
[18:07] <heno> ok, I'll talk with them
[18:07] <pedro_> awesome! thanks
[18:07] <heno> thanks pedro for the report
[18:07] <heno> [TOPIC] SRU Verifications -- sbeattie
[18:07] <MootBot> New Topic:  SRU Verifications -- sbeattie
[18:07] <pedro_> my pleasure
[18:08] <sbeattie> First off, thanks to Neil Hoggarth, Peter Adolphs, Benjamin Drung, Lennart Jütte, Ryan, Anoop, Gerhard Radatz, and Neil Wallace for testing and posting results for SRUs this week.
[18:08] <sbeattie> 8.04.3 SRUs are progressing, though there's more still to do.
[18:09] <sbeattie> We tried to run a testing day on monday focusing on that: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/UbuntuTestingDay/20090622 but didn't get much uptake.
[18:09] <heno> no green :(
[18:09] <sbeattie> So more help is requested; in particular, help with the hardware specific issues outlined in the announcement http://blog.qa.ubuntu.com/node/55 would be useful
[18:10] <davmor2> Yes sorry I wasn't around much Monday :(
[18:10] <sbeattie> Yeah. I did a few, but ended up struggling most of the day trying to reproduce the apache mod_ssl one.
[18:11] <heno> sbeattie: have you looked into the forum testing community?
[18:11] <sbeattie> Not yet, but thanks for the tip, I'll poke around there.
[18:11] <sbeattie> Oh, I should note that hardy isos started get spun on monday.
[18:11] <heno> cr3: heve we run any 8.04.3 ISOs yet?
[18:12] <heno> (in cert testing)
[18:12] <fader> heno: We have run some
[18:12] <fader> They have been tested on the server hardware
[18:12] <cr3> heno: automated or manual?
[18:12] <heno> can we get a view of the coverage?
[18:12] <sbeattie> One issue that I discovered last night is that the livecds were being built with proposed enabled, but the server installer was not.
[18:13] <heno> cr3: automated, first of all
[18:13] <cr3> fader: server hardware for 20090624 and desktop hardware too for 20090623.1 (isn't /cdimages awesome!?)
[18:13] <sbeattie> I believe it's been fixed this morning, but will probably take a day to propogate.
[18:13] <fader> heno: It's in the certification site; I will export to a webpage so that it is more visible
[18:13] <sbeattie> fader|cr3: much appreciated!
[18:13] <fader> cr3: You were one step ahead of me :)
[18:13] <heno> fader: thanks. can you present that at Friday's meeting?
[18:14] <fader> heno: Will do.
[18:14] <cr3> heno, fader: it seems like the desktop images for hardy aren't being tested, I'll see if they need special massaging
[18:14] <davmor2> sbeattie: I can check out the wifi hardware but I don't have any of the others
[18:14] <heno> fader: in fact, I will most likely not make that meeting due to traveling; can you represent QA there?
[18:14] <fader> heno: Absolutely.
[18:15] <sbeattie> davmor2: that'd be great!
[18:15] <heno> sbeattie, cr3: please attend as well
[18:15] <sbeattie> heno: will do.
[18:15] <cr3> heno: will do
[18:15] <heno> I was very pleased with out presence there last week btw!
[18:15] <heno> mainly because we're in good shape on specs ;)
[18:16] <cr3> heno: would it be appropriate to announce automated testing of live cd images during the meeting on Friday?
[18:16] <sbeattie> cr3: yes indeed.
[18:16] <cr3> ... so that we could show we're also in good shape on implementation :)
[18:16] <heno> cr3: yes, provided we can post some actual results
[18:17] <heno> (to be scraped from the cert site I guess)
[18:17] <cr3> heno: fader, schwuk and I will make it happen
[18:17] <heno> cool
[18:17] <heno> sbeattie: anything else on SRUs?
[18:17] <sbeattie> That's pretty much it.
[18:17] <heno> conflict-checker work is worth mentioning Friday too
[18:18] <cr3> heno: what's the progress on that?
[18:18] <heno> [TOPIC] Spec Roadmap review -- heno
[18:18] <sbeattie> Yep, though one of us needs to go through, do some analysis, and file bugs based on the results.
[18:18] <MootBot> New Topic:  Spec Roadmap review -- heno
[18:18] <fader> sbeattie: Can we talk about that after the meeting?
[18:18] <heno> cr3: 'good progress'
[18:19] <sbeattie> fader: sure thing!
[18:19] <heno> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/RoadMap
[18:19] <heno> All specs green! (approved)
[18:19] <fader> \o/
[18:20] <heno> I'll add some implementation icons as well
[18:20] <heno> eeejay: you'll add a ubiquity automation spec right?
[18:20] <heno> cr3: and you'll add a filters spec?
[18:20] <eeejay> heno: oops, yeah. i'll do that now
[18:20] <heno> great, thanks
[18:21] <cr3> heno: depending on my findings, I'm afraid that I'm still at the point where this might lead to a dead end. that is life of research
[18:21] <heno> anyone have comments on the roadmap this week? anyone blocked in their spec work?
[18:22] <heno> I'll take that as good news
[18:22] <heno> Any other topics?
[18:23] <bdmurray> Just in case no one saw it negated tag searching has landed in Launchpad
[18:23] <heno> \o/
[18:23] <sbeattie> bdmurray: woot!
[18:23] <pedro_> \o/!
[18:23] <bdmurray> sbeattie that might be interesting for finding non hardware specific sru verification bugs
[18:23] <heno> bdmurray: any news on +filebug redirecting?
[18:24] <bdmurray> heno: I've not heard anything about it
[18:24] <heno> OK, I'll catch up with Tom
[18:24] <bdmurray> great
[18:25] <bdmurray> Is anybody using the Firefox extension I've made of the launchpad greasemonkey scripts?
[18:25] <sbeattie> bdmurray: yes, I am. Working well.
[18:25] <ogasawara> bdmurray: I am
[18:25] <bdmurray> Cool, that's what I wanted to hear. ;-)
[18:26] <bdmurray> I think lp_patches is kind of broken now but I'll look at it this week
[18:26] <heno> So I can set that spec to 'beta available'?
[18:26] <bdmurray> Yes, that sounds good
[18:27] <heno> all, feel free you update spec status as you work on them, btw
[18:27] <heno> ok, looks like were done
[18:27] <heno> #endmeeting
[18:27] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:27.
[18:29] <davmor2> bye]
[21:33] <slangasek> robbiew, cjwatson: oh hmm, I'm to be representing Foundations at the release meeting?  I thought one of you was still around Friday?
[23:19] <cjwatson> slangasek: I believe Robbie's travelling, and I'm on a swap day
[23:19] <cjwatson> slangasek: which I can rearrange if necessary, but I'd rather we just found another representative if need be :)
[23:20] <slangasek> would be nice if someone else could represent, my head gets hot when I wear too many hats
[23:21] <slangasek> I can do it, though, presuming someone else can feed me the status beforehand :)
[23:40] <cjwatson> slangasek: I'll hunt around tomorrow then
[23:40] <cjwatson> slangasek: I thought I'd asked you about this yesterday and you said yes, but you must have only caught half the conversation :)


[19:48] <bazhang> "console mode" with a window manager? or even X?
[19:48] <bazhang> that seems contradictory
 Hi all i wish 2 have a good exploition pack such as core impact or other am pretty tired of metasploit it works but i want something more powerfull anyone can help
[20:42] <bazhang> is that supported?
[20:42] <h00k> not that I'm aware of?
[20:43] <tonyyarusso> bazhang: In terms of "officially supported software", not that I know of, but in terms of Freenode ToS and Ubuntu channel guidelines, there are very legitimate uses for such a thing, so I think they're okay there.
[20:43] <bazhang> ok
[20:44] <bazhang> never heard of core impact
 Guys, What's the difference between Linux, Solaris and BSD?
[21:10] <h00k> spelling
[21:11] <bazhang> hehe
[21:13] <topyli> :)
[21:18] <IdleOne> !serverguide
[21:18] <IdleOne> !serverguide ~=/10.04/12.04/
[21:19] <IdleOne> !serverguide > guntbert
[21:36] <bazhang> * BlouBlou is now known as wtf
[21:36] <bazhang> is that a family friendly nick? for ubuntu channels?
[21:39] <topyli> maybe their name is william terence freeman, but i doubt it
[21:39] <bazhang> bloublou is a fairly well known troll
[21:50] <Fuchs> he had to nick to it as he wanted us to drop it
[21:50] <Fuchs> I doubt he did that for #ubuntu*
 There, can someone run this "find / \( -perm -4000 -o -perm -2000 \) 2> /dev/null" and send me the output on pastebin ?
 i tried ubuntu ones
[22:02] <bazhang> whoops
[22:02] <bazhang> just the first one  is that safe?
[22:50] <bazhang> augh
[22:51] <bazhang> today seems to be a 'sense is optional' day
[22:52] <Myrtti> no kidding
[22:53] <Fuchs> s/today/everyday/


[00:04] <maxb> hmm, I wonder how long it takes to rebase 1500 revisions
[00:05] <maxb> this is one scenario when bzr's speed is a bit lacking
[00:07] <maxb> Gaaaaah
[00:07] <maxb> I bet rebase-foreign is picking the file-ids from the wrong side
[00:08] <maxb> cjwatson: What's the aim with the debian-cd branches? End up with the ubuntu branch retrofitted with debian file ids and on top of the debian history?
[00:11] <cjwatson> maxb: Debian used to use svn and now uses git; I want to rebase/merge/whatever across that change
[00:11] <cjwatson> the Ubuntu branch was created when it used svn (or maybe even CVS, but I think it was svn)
[00:12] <maxb> hmm... how come both branches have arch-style revids?
[00:12] <lifeless> cscvs to tla
[00:12] <cjwatson> cancel "rebase/merge/whatever", I specifically want to merge forward, but I'm happy to use something rebase-like to pretend that my history was always based on git
[00:13] <maxb> But lp:debian-cd is still a svn import
[00:19] <maxb> urgh, it died again
[00:22] <maxb> that's immensely irritating. the rebase died 4 revisions short of finishing
[00:42] <lamont> maxb: but only one or two more bugs to fix, right?
[00:42] <maxb> I'll let you know when it finishes another attempt :-)
[00:49] <cjwatson> maxb: hmm, I think I mean "Debian used to use cvs and now uses svn", then
[00:49] <cjwatson> maxb: so the current Ubuntu branch was created when it used cvs
[00:49] <cjwatson> apologies for that confusion
[00:50] <cjwatson> the change was years ago
[00:54] <maxb> assuming it doesn't explode again, I'll push some results in 10 mins or so
[00:54] <maxb> although given how confusing I found the code, you probably want jelmer to review my hacks to bzr-rewrite before you trust its output
[01:01] <maxb> lp:~maxb/bzr-rewrite/ubuntu-debian-cd-rebase-foreign succeeds in the rebase. I can't push my rebased branch because grrrrrr I did it in a shared repo and now have different rich-root errors
[01:05] <lamont> so these blob files... how big do they get?
[01:05] <maxb> huuuuuuge
[01:05] <maxb> As they store the literal content of every revision of every file
[01:05] <lamont> is it basically a concatenation of every single output-format commit ever?
[01:06] <lamont> 375MB cvs tree, 4.7GB of blob and counting
[01:06] <maxb> yup
[01:06] <lamont> oh rapture.
[01:06] <maxb> disk is cheap, right?
[01:06] <lamont> now, where _are_ my scissors.
[01:07] <lamont> ....
[01:07] <maxb> It gets worse - if you pass the data on stdin to fast-import, it caches the blobs in memory!
[01:07] <lamont> git and bzr? or is bzr the only thing silly enough to do that?
[01:08] <lamont> svn being in the "totally do not care" category
[01:08] <maxb> I'm assuming just bzr
[01:08] <maxb> It's really silly, it could just keep track of a revid+fileid and get the content back that way if it needed it again later
[01:18] <Phil_Bordelon> Hello there.
[01:18] <maxb> and pushed: lp:~maxb/debian-cd/ubuntu-rebased
[01:18] <Phil_Bordelon> Does anyone know if there's an equivalent to svndumpfilter available for bzr?
[01:19] <maxb> There's bzr fast-import-filter
[01:19] <cjwatson> maxb: cool, thanks!  I'll have a look ..
[01:20] <Phil_Bordelon> Awesome.  Just what I needed.  Thanks, maxb.
[01:20] <Phil_Bordelon> I'm a writer, and I have stuff in an 'incubator' repo in bzr that I occasionally want to split off into its own repo.  This'll do just that. :)
[01:20] <Phil_Bordelon> (same with code.)
[01:22] <Phil_Bordelon> <3  You and Ian C. made my evening.
[01:25] <mtaylor> abentley: didn't you say that there was a ppa that had bzr 2.1beta in it?
[01:26] <abentley> mtaylor: Sure, and either the beta ppa or the nightly ppa should.  They don't?
[01:26] <mtaylor> abentley: I don't see them on the ~bzr page...
[01:27] <abentley> mtaylor: They were started before a user could have multiple ppas, so they have different users.
[01:27] <maxb> the beta ppa is rather out of date. It has versions older that the ~bzr ppa
[01:27] <maxb> *than
[01:28] <abentley> mtaylor: https://launchpad.net/~bzr-beta-ppa/+archive
[01:28] <abentley> mtaylor: https://launchpad.net/~bzr-nightly-ppa/+archive
[01:28] <mtaylor> abentley: AWESOME
[01:28] <mtaylor> abentley: thankx
[02:17] <jml> abentley, you know what would make me like remerge a whole lot more?
[02:27]  * igc lunch
[02:59] <lifeless> jml: what would
[03:03] <jml> lifeless, oh, I spoke w/ abentley IRL
[03:04] <jml> lifeless, a way of seeing what it actually changed, especially wrt files that used to conflict.
[04:13] <lifeless> vila: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~vila/subunit/gtk-filter-fixes can you mark this as obsolete?
[06:22] <abentley> lifeless: ping
[07:14] <vila> lifeless: it's already marked as merged, anything more needed ?
[07:15] <vila> hi all ! (by the way :)
[08:11] <GaryvdM> Hi vila.
[08:12] <vila>  hey GaryvdM !
[08:12] <vila> That was short...
[08:13] <vila>  hey GaryvdM ! (Was I saying when your client quit :)
[08:14] <bialix> heya bzr
[08:14] <bialix> igc here?
[08:16] <bialix> hi garyvdm
[08:18] <garyvdm> hmm - something wrong with my keyboard config and xchat. when I press "q" it takes it as ctrl + q
[08:18] <garyvdm> hi bialix
[08:18] <vila> hey garyvdm ! (Third time :)
[08:19] <bialix> vila and gary meet each other. finally
[08:19] <bialix> hi vila!
[08:19] <vila> hey bialix :-D
[08:19]  * vila LOLs :)
[08:19] <bialix> :-D
[08:19] <garyvdm> vila: just wanted to say: I've replied to your question about the qbzr test suit,
[08:20] <vila> garyvdm: now that's timely :D Thanks a lot
[08:21] <vila> garyvdm: hmm, I already spend far too much time administering my zoo, but it's good to know it will go away soon
[08:21] <bialix> garyvdm: just info: I will be unable to work on qbzr till February
[08:22] <garyvdm> bialix: Ok - np
[08:22] <vila> garyvdm: at worst the test can be tagged as requiring pyqt-4.6.1...
[08:22] <vila> s/test/tests/
[08:22] <vila> garyvdm: but waiting for a karmic upgrade is good enough for me
[08:22] <garyvdm> vila: that is a good idea.
[08:23] <garyvdm> or a known failer
[08:25] <vila> garyvdm: know failure will be harder, skip may be good enough
[08:25] <garyvdm> ok
[08:26] <vila> bialix, garyvdm : Congrats for the qbzr-0.18 release by the way !
[08:26] <garyvdm> :-)
[08:26] <bialix> vila: thanks, I'm appreciate the congrats
[08:27] <vila> garyvdm: since you're there, are you still working on the unicode-bom-detect stuff ?
[08:27] <garyvdm> Not for the moment, but I will get back to it.
[08:28] <vila> garyvdm: I was thinking that since you can't do that unconditionally (as abentley pointed out) you may think about implementing the feature in some read-only mode as a first step
[08:28] <bialix> vila: can I ask about bzr itself?
[08:28] <vila> bialix: don't ask to ask, ask :D
[08:38] <garyvdm> vila: " some read-only mode" == command line paramater?
[08:39] <vila> garyvdm: no, at the API level
[08:39] <garyvdm> Ok
[08:39] <vila> AIUI you need this patch for read-only operations (diff, cat, etc)
[08:40] <vila> there may be a way to have additional methods that these read-operations can use and avoid the problems mentioned by abentley
[08:41] <vila> garyvdm: I haven't look in detail so take the suggestion with a grain of salt
[08:41] <garyvdm> vila: I also need to go into some details
[08:42] <vila> garyvdm: ok
[08:42] <bialix> vila: any ideas about https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/244291
[08:43] <bialix> I've offered to provide the repo where this bug present
[08:43] <bialix> is it needed?
[08:43] <bialix> or I should not ask to ask?
[08:44] <bialix> I'm worrying a bit because this repo is no more actively using by me: I'm switching to use colo
[08:45] <bialix> so I can delete it one day accidentaly
[08:48]  * vila reading
[08:53] <vila> bialix: hmm, this looks like a plain branch, how did you end up with an out-of-date working tree ?
[08:54] <bialix> this branch was used as master for light checkout
[08:54] <bialix> it was easy
[08:56]  * garyvdm -> work
[08:58] <vila> bialix: so the<EMAIL_ADDRESS>revisions is not in the repo yet the branch references it, how weird... DId you implement some gc without telling us ? :-D
[08:58] <vila> bialix: more seriously do you use some stacked branches ?
[08:58] <bialix> I'm sure this revision in the repo
[08:59] <bialix> because qlog works without errors
[08:59]  * vila blinks
[08:59] <bialix> I don't made gc
[08:59] <bialix> and don't use stacked
[08:59] <bialix> (stacked seems evil for me)
[08:59] <vila> hmm, let me guess, that revision is in the branch history but *not* a mainline revision ?
[09:00] <vila> qlog should show you that quite easily :D
[09:03] <vila> bialix: hmm or somehow that revision went completely out of the branch history after some 'uncommit' or 'push --overwrite'... but let's check if it's still in the branch history first
[09:05] <Anteru> Hi
[09:05] <Anteru> I've just switched a repository from SVN to Bzr (using bzr svn-import), and we're running into weird issues. First of all, a bzr check told us that we have 250 broken parents or so
[09:06] <Anteru> This could be fixed by using bzr reconcile
[09:06] <Anteru> Unfortunately, diff's regularly fail with NoSuchRevision ...
[09:07] <vila> Anteru: hmm, bzr-svn is the recommended way for that AFAIK, but for context, what versions are you using ?
[09:07] <Anteru> Commit works, but diff fails (before/after the commit)
[09:07] <Anteru> Running bzr 2.0.3
[09:07] <Anteru> (latest stable)
[09:07] <Anteru> Server is running bzr 2.0.3 as well, and we're publishing right now using sftp due to issues with bzr serve/fastcgi
[09:08] <Anteru> basically, the problem is that when we try to diff, we get "bzr: ERROR: bzrlib.errors.NoSuchRevision: CHKInventoryRepository('file:///V:/proj/.bzr/repository/') has no revision<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[09:08] <bialix> vila: this revision is the revision of working tree
[09:09]  * bialix preparing screenshot!
[09:09] <vila> Anteru: try bzr reconcile first
[09:09] <Anteru> We did reconcile
[09:10] <Anteru> It's also not for all files, for some, diff works perfectly, but for some, we get the error above
[09:10] <vila> bialix: yes (because most probably info -v starts from the actual tip), but the wt is out-of-date and it seems that doesn't play well here
[09:11] <vila> Anteru: weird, is 'bzr check' happy now ?
[09:11] <Anteru> 20 ghost revisions, let me run it again just to get the output
[09:11] <bialix> vila: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/38124517/qlog-bug-244291.png
[09:13]  * bialix -> work
[09:13] <vila> bialix: great, so it *is* in the branch ancestry, that narrows down the problem
[09:13] <Anteru> (this will take some while, 2.6k revisions)
[09:14] <Anteru> OT: Is check going to become faster some day?
[09:16] <vila> bialix: and I presume that the error goes away if you run 'bzr update' ?
[09:17] <bialix> maybe, I did not try
[09:17] <vila> Anteru: for some value of some, yes. There are plans to implement more options to allow finer-grained checks
[09:17] <bialix> vila: tried in the copy: yes, error go away after up
[09:18] <Anteru> vila: check output: http://pastebin.ca/1758667
[09:18] <vila> bialix: that would help the diagnosis (I'll need to write the test otherwise :-)... YES !
[09:18] <bialix> added to bug comments
[09:19] <bialix> thanks
[09:19] <vila> bialix:  me too :)
[09:19] <vila> bialix: lol, we added nearly the same comments :)
[09:20] <vila> Anteru: yeah, ghosts...
[09:20] <Anteru> Any way to get rid of those, if they're causing these issues?
[09:21] <Anteru> I have no problem to fiddle around with the repository, as long as no information gets lost (as we have already some commits in there)
[09:21] <vila> I'm pretty sure it's related to svn-import/bzr-svn then, but you need someone more experienced than me with the svn conversions then, try to find jelmer or better file a bug on lp or write an email to the bazaar list
[09:22] <vila> Anteru: if you go away from svn, these ghosts need to filled
[09:22] <vila> s/to filled/to be filled/
[09:22] <Anteru> Any idea how/where to start?
[09:23] <vila> AnMaster: A ghost is a revision that exists but bzr is not aware of its content
[09:23] <vila> Anteru: not really, that sounds like a genuine svn-import bug to me though
[09:24] <Anteru> Which sounds like a very serious issue to me, as we can't go back to svn that easily now :/
[09:24] <vila> Anteru: that's why I said it's a bug
[09:25] <Anteru> I'll try the mailing list and cross my fingers that the repository/history can be rescued. Damn, I wonder why we didn't run earlier into this.
[09:26] <Anteru> Just now, after fully switching :/
[09:26] <vila> Anteru: the first thing is to get the list of the ghosts revisions, look into .bzr.log or re-run 'bzr check -v' and look again
[09:27] <vila> from there you'lll have to find out what theses revisions are.... and inject them into the repo (how to do that with svn-import is a different story...)
[09:27] <vila> Anteru: did you use bzr-svn before switching ?
[09:28] <Anteru> Yes
[09:28] <vila> Anteru: Do you use shared repos ?
[09:28] <Anteru> I used it locally for some time (200 revisions?), but we finally decided to fully move and started from scratch (i.e. ran svn-import on the server, and branched from there)
[09:28] <Anteru> bzr.log contains loads of errors: http://pastebin.ca/1758676
[09:30] <vila> All the 'Unable to open' errors should be harmless as long as you don't see them in the console (I'm pretty sure that's bzr-svn trying to find an svn repo in wrong places and failing)
[09:31] <Anteru> That is, the usage previously was that one developer (me) who used bzr locally, by doing svn-import, binding to svn, and branching/merging locally. The other dev was using SVN (but I think it was only like 2-3 commits)
[09:32] <Anteru> Now we scrapped all local bzr copies, and simply ran import again, and I branched off the new repository.
[09:32] <vila> argh !
[09:32] <Anteru> ?
[09:32] <Anteru> We should have done everything differently?
[09:32] <vila> I was hoping to find the ghosts in your previous bzr branches !
[09:33] <Anteru> IIRC, I had some ghosts revisions in my first local import (i.e. the first time I ran svn-import)
[09:33] <vila> Anteru: you could have started with your bzr branch instead which was presumably complete instead of re-running svn-import
[09:34] <Anteru> The original branch already had these ghost revisions (and I think, even the same number -- I was asking here if this is normal that I'm like 10 revisions behind the SVN, and I was told yeah.)
[09:35] <Anteru> Running bzr check -v now
[09:35] <vila> Anteru: Then I'm a bit lost... AFAIK bzr-svn create ghosts only for bzr revisions that can't be exported to svn, so you need at least two people using it to encounter the problem...
[09:36] <vila> or two branches that don't share a repo
[09:36] <Anteru> Well, I didn bzr svn-import on two machines
[09:36] <Anteru> Which would solve that issue
[09:36] <Anteru> I.e. explain how the ghost revisions appeared, but as I said, I had them right away
[09:37] <Anteru> The first time I did svn-import, I was 10 or 20 revisions behind, with some ghosts.
[09:40] <vila> Anteru: I confused svn-import (which *is* part of bzr-svn) and svn2bzr. You definitely needs jelmer here
[09:40] <Anteru> bzr check -v gives the ghost revision ids
[09:40] <vila> AnMaster: and you lamost certainly needs the bzr repos where the ghosts were created
[09:41] <lifeless> vila: it has unmerged changes that won't be merged. it needs to be marked obseleted or whatever. its showing up in branch listing.
[09:41] <lifeless> abentley: pog
[09:41] <lifeless> abentley: pong
[09:41] <vila> from there, branching from the repo that contains the revisions into the repo where they are ghosts should filled them
[09:42] <Anteru> Great, as we don't have them :/
[09:42] <abentley> lifeless: I couldn't remember whether we were doing code review for bzr-pqm or just pushing.  In the end, I requested a review.
[09:43] <Anteru> Ah well, something is always going wrong. I wonder where they came from as we did a fresh svn-import
[09:47] <lifeless> abentley: ok, I shall review in the morning if thats ok
[09:49] <abentley> lifeless: That's fine.
[09:50] <Anteru> vila: Yeah, looks like the merges are the culprit (i.e. local bzr getting merged into SVN)
[09:52] <vila> Anteru: yes, that create ghosts because svn can't represent them so bzr-svn store the revids in some svn property to be able to roundtrip safely
[09:52] <Anteru> (at least, I count 17 merges, and some might have 2 or 3 revisions)
[09:52] <Anteru> Gosh, I would be happy to get rid of them (i.e. I don't worry if the fact that it was a merge is lost)
[09:53] <Anteru> and just treat them as normal commits to the trunk
[09:53] <vila> Anteru: then there should be a way but that requires some voodoo knowledge of bzr-svn internals, file a bug
[09:54] <Anteru> Ok. Any idea if there is a way to get it fixed on the bzr repository directly :) ?
[09:58] <lifeless> night
[09:58] <vila> Anteru: Hopefully yes, but whether it's only deleting them from the parent list or if more is required, I can't say
[09:58] <vila> lifeless: done
[09:59] <vila> lifeless: g'night
[09:59] <Anteru> Ok, cool. I'm going to write a _long_ writeup to the mailing list.
[09:59] <Anteru> I.e. explain all the problems we created ;)
[09:59] <vila> Anteru: too bad you didn't keep the bzr repos around for a while, are you sure you don't have a backup somewhere ?
[10:00] <Anteru> Pretty sure, unfortunately, as I had like 10 repos during testing, and got rid of them all at once.
[10:00] <Anteru> (testing means only locally to check performance etc.)
[10:08] <Anteru> Sent
[10:09] <Anteru> Let's see if someone has an idea (fingers crossed)
[10:13] <Anteru> vila: Thanks!
[10:14] <vila> Anteru: you're welcome! Your experience should at least help us better document the process so those ghosts don't get lost the next time :-/
[10:15] <vila> Anteru: Another way to fix the problem *may* be to try bzr-replay and see if it can cope with the ghosts
[10:15] <Anteru> Yeah, I'm also going to blog about this, in the hope that it will help other people to migrate from SVN to Bzr (because I'm really happy with Bzr)
[10:15] <vila> Anteru: you will end up with a repo with *different* revids though, so be prepared to resynchronize every people involved
[10:15] <Anteru> That's no problem
[10:16] <Anteru> I can simply delete the repository on the server, recreate it, and tell everyone to branch again :)
[10:24] <Anteru> Trying bzr replay of all revisions, let's see if/when this finishes ... doesn't look too fast (pegging one core @ 100% and reading like 2 KiB/s)
[10:47] <l2m> hi ^^
[10:47] <l2m> could anyone help me to understand why the bzr commit does not works with the --fixes switch ?
[10:48] <l2m> i've added in the config file the line trac_mysite_url = http://www.mysite.com/trac
[10:48] <l2m> and nothing seems to happend when i do a bzr commit --verbose  --fixes mysite:106 -m'test___'
[10:49] <bialix> if you run qlog you'll see it there
[10:49] <bialix> what you expect actually?
[10:49] <l2m> qlog ?
[10:50] <bialix> qlog is the part of qbzr plugin
[10:50] <bialix> it's wonderful gui
[10:51] <bialix> --fixes store special metadata attached to committed revision
[10:51] <bialix> it's not quite visible
[10:51] <bialix> qlog makes it clearly visible
[10:51] <l2m> but why is --fixes not calling trac ?
[10:51] <bialix> --fixes does not change the status of actual bug
[10:51] <l2m> i can't see anything in trac
[10:51] <l2m> ok :)
[10:51] <bialix> it's just metadata inside bzr
[10:52] <l2m> not possible to fix in trac an opened bug ?
[10:52] <bialix> trac-bzr plugin does not process such metadata yet
[10:53] <bialix> in theory it's possible to close bug in trac via post-commit hook
[10:53] <bialix> there is special API in trac for this, xml-rpc IIRC
[10:53] <bialix> but in practice nobody wrote such hook yet
[10:53] <l2m> hehe ... :)
[10:53] <bialix> yep
[10:54] <l2m> ok so where looking for this guy ;)
[10:54] <l2m> we are sorry
[10:54] <bialix> imagine if you commit locally without access to trac
[10:54] <bialix> what should bzr do?
[10:54] <bialix> I mean offline
[10:55] <l2m> yep .. but in our case, we have all in local network
[10:55] <bialix> yes, but bzr don;t know this ;-)
[10:55] <l2m> so, many thanks for help bialix ... we gonna look for an other solution
[10:56] <bialix> if you find it, I'd like to know too
[10:56] <bialix> we're using trac at work too
[10:59] <l2m> wel .. so the fixes switch work well with launchpad or bugzilla .. or same limitations ?
[11:03] <bialix> lp don't change status of the bug
[11:03] <bialix> it just link the branch to the bug
[11:03] <bialix> so in lp this info used just as flag: here is branch where possible fix exists
[11:04] <bialix> as you can imagine the fix can be wrong or incomplete
[11:04] <bialix> that's basicall y main reason why bzr don't try to change the status of the bug
[11:08] <Anteru> hm, I cannot get bzr replay to work, complains about no WorkingTree
[11:41] <Anteru> vila: replay fails with conflicts?!?
[11:43] <vila> Anteru: for the merges ? Are they the same conflicts that you did resolve at that point in the past ?
[11:43] <Anteru> it fails on revision 40 or so
[11:43] <Anteru> that's in 2004, when we were using svn 1.0 or so
[11:43]  * vila summons quicksilver that played a lot with bzr-replay lately :-)
[11:44] <Anteru> I don't think we had conflicts back in that day :)
[11:44] <quicksilver> all I have to offer about bzr replay is that I could only make it replay simple revisions
[11:44] <quicksilver> that is, no merge involved.
[11:44] <vila> Anteru: may be you don't use bzr-replay with the right starting branch (don't start from origin but maybe just before the first merge)
[11:44] <maxb> yeah, no support for merges
[11:44] <quicksilver> if there is a way to make it do something sensible with merges I didn't find it.
[11:45] <quicksilver> I must finish that long email I was writing to the bzr list though
[11:45] <maxb> actually most of bzr-rewrite fares poorly if you ask it to rewrite a merge
[11:45] <Anteru> hm
[11:45] <Anteru> Seems my repository is totally hosed
[11:45] <vila> quicksilver: oh, finishing that mail ? Good idea :)
[11:45] <Anteru> It's not only ghost revisions that are missing. Just sent again to the ML :/
[11:46] <Anteru> Bah, that's a migration :(
[11:46]  * vila lunch time, bbl
[14:14] <jam> morning all
[14:14] <jam> hopefully irc will get sorted out...
[14:41] <vila> morning jam !
[14:50] <Lo-lan-do> Hi all :-)
[14:50] <rubbs> hello
[14:51] <Lo-lan-do> Question about bzr switch.  I have a lightweight checkout of ~/repo/branch, which is bound to bzr+ssh://remote/blabla/branch
[14:52] <Lo-lan-do> Is there a way to have "bzr switch otherbranch" switch to ~/repo/otherbranch rather than bzr+ssh://remote/blabla/otherbranch?
[14:55] <rubbs> I don't think so, the only way is to type out the whole path... on the other hand, I seem to remember reading something about intents...
[14:55]  * rubbs runs of to the documentation...
[14:57] <rubbs> mmm... seems like intents are more for shortcutting authorization to branch locations rather than shortcuting the branch locations themselves.
[14:57] <rubbs> you could make an alias...
[14:57] <rubbs> bzr alias otherbranch="~/repo/otherbranch"
[14:58] <rubbs> that way when you do your switch bzr will expand your path for you.
[14:58] <Lo-lan-do> Hm, yes, that would work if I had only one repo.
[14:58] <rubbs> ah.
[14:59] <rubbs> not sure what the best solution is.
[14:59] <Lo-lan-do> I have several branches named similarly, in the same repo, too.
[15:00] <Lo-lan-do> fusionforge/patches/$client1/fixes, fusionforge/patches/$client2/fixes, and so on.
[15:00] <rubbs> that makes sense. Does bzr switch ../otherbranch work?
[15:02] <Lo-lan-do> bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: "bzr+ssh://remote/blabla/otherbranch/".
[15:02] <Lo-lan-do> So, no.  But nice try :-)
[15:04] <Lo-lan-do> Uh, it's even worse, actually, it's bzr+ssh://remote/bla/otherbranch/ , with bla being blabla/.. (blabla's parent dir)
[15:06] <rubbs> mmm...
[15:07] <Lo-lan-do> I'm fetching the source, I'll see if I can add a parameter to change the default behaviour.
[15:07] <rubbs> that might work.
[15:07] <rubbs> I'm out of ideas other than that.
[15:07] <rubbs> unless someone like jam or vila have an idea.
[15:08] <jam> Lo-lan-do: bug #506177
[15:09] <jam> basically, while 'bzr switch $PATH" defaults to switching the lightweight checkout before the bound branch the "bzr switch local" lookup does the bound branch lookup first
[15:09] <jam> for now
[15:09] <jam> use bzr switch ~/repo/otherbranch
[15:10] <Lo-lan-do> I see.  Thanks for the pointer.
[15:12] <Lo-lan-do> Oooh, colocated branches now!
[15:21] <Glenjamin_> hi guys, is there any plan for a os x 10.5 installer for the newer versions of bzr?
[15:35] <Glenjamin_> or, a more relevant question - how do i use bzr-keychain?
[15:35] <Glenjamin_> it appears to have installed correctly and is in the plugins list
[15:35] <Glenjamin_> but i have no idea how to make it prompt for keychain access
[15:36] <Lo-lan-do> Does "bzr help keychain" say anything?
[15:38] <Glenjamin_> "Use the Mac OS X keychain as a credential store for authentication.conf."
[15:39] <Glenjamin_> bzr 2.0.1 btw
[15:48] <Lo-lan-do> Glenjamin_: No idea from me, actually.  I'm not a Mac user, I was just suggesting.
[15:49] <Glenjamin_> no worries
[15:49] <Glenjamin_> bzr-svn can read plaintext stores from svn fine - but doesnt seem to be able to read from the svn keychain store :s
[15:59] <vila> Glenjamin_: I think jfroy know about bzr-keychain, let's try to summon him
[16:12] <Glenjamin_> i'm guessing jfroy is the bzr-svn guy?
[16:12] <vila> jam: can you review https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~vila/bzr/per-file-merge-hook/+merge/17754 ?
[16:12] <vila> Glenjamin_: no, it's the bzr-keychain guy :)
[16:12] <Glenjamin_> oh
[16:12] <Glenjamin_> thats works too :)
[16:19] <jam> vila: I'll try to take a look at it today
[16:21] <vila> jam: thanks, unless you object, it would be nice to include it in rc1 since there seems to be agreement that it's low risk
[16:22] <vila> jam: but I will *not* push more since it needed to be completed at the last minute by the pp instead of the original author...
[16:24] <vila> jam: hmpf, passport, damn
[16:25] <jam> vila: already approved
[16:25] <jam> yeah passport thing is just strange
[16:25] <jam> for whatever reason neither of us connected the dots until it was in the mail
[16:27] <jam> anyway, I'm going to head to a coffee shop for a while, I'll see if I have net access there
[16:27] <vila> jam: small error big consequences... :-/ We will miss you if you can't make it :-/
[16:27] <vila> jam: huh ? What about your expresso machine ?
[16:30] <Lo-lan-do> I was going to ask what's new in 2.1, but reading the release notes, I'm sold already.
[16:30] <Lo-lan-do> "bzr unshelve --preview" is something I've wished for quite some time :-)
[16:32] <Glenjamin_> anyone around who works on bzr-svn? i'm looking at the authentication code, and it appears to have hooks into all the subverpy auth providers, but not use any of them in the Credential Store implmentation
 AnMaster: A ghost is a revision that exists but bzr is not aware of its content <-- wrong nick?
[17:08] <vila> AnMaster_: yeah, sorry about that
[17:09]  * vila lectures Xchat: see ? Can't you check which nick you propose !
[17:11] <AnMaster_> vila, for xchat iirc you can set "most recently to speak completed first" kind of thing
[17:12] <vila> which I did AFAIR, let me check
[17:12] <vila> here we go, lost setting...
[17:12] <vila> AnMaster_: thks for the heads-up
[17:14] <AnMaster_> vila, if you use /set iirc you have to save it by some other command
[17:14] <AnMaster_> was a while ago I used xchat last
[17:15] <vila> AnMaster_: I track changes on the  xchat.conf file.... at least I was but somehow my setup has been broken :-/
[17:15] <AnMaster> mhm
[17:18] <vila> ha, got it, xchat creates a new xchat.conf when some pref is modified which breaks my tracking :-/
[18:42] <Tak> what happens when one bzr unbinds a lightweight checkout?
[18:45] <fullermd_> One doesn't; the operation doesn't make sense.
[18:46] <fullermd_> unbind operates on a branch, not a checkout.  So what would happen would be that it would perform that operation on the branch you have a lightweight checkout of, which is statistically probably not bound in the first place.
[18:47] <Tak> ok
[18:47] <Tak> that's what I figured
[18:48] <Tak> although I kind of hoped that it would create an alternate universe where magical unicorns would keep track of my local revisions until it was time to rebind
[18:50] <keithy> hi
[18:50] <keithy> How can I debug a bzr+ssh connection
[18:51] <keithy> the sftp connection works
[18:51] <Tak> is bzr installed on the remote side?
[18:52] <keithy> yes
[18:54] <fullermd> Tak: Magical unicorns were going to be in 2.1, but the patch was rejected for not having tests   :(
[18:56] <Tak> meh, I'm still running 2.0.3 anyway
[18:56] <Tak> keithy: what kind of error are you getting?
[18:56] <keithy> if I ssh to the mc, I can run bzr
[18:58] <keithy> bash: bzr: command not found
[18:58] <keithy> bzr: ERROR: Connection closed: Unexpected end of message. Please check connectivity and permissions, and report a bug if problems persist.
[18:58] <mwhudson> keithy: where is bzr on the remote machine?
[18:58] <mwhudson> if it's not in /usr/bin, /bin or just a very few other places you might have to set BZR_REMOTE_PATH
[18:59] <keithy> hmm
[18:59] <keithy> doesnt the Mac os x installer do the right thing?
[18:59] <mwhudson> no idea!
[18:59] <mwhudson> log in and 'which bzr'
[18:59] <keithy> its in /usr/local/bin/bzr
[19:00] <mwhudson> yeah, that's probably not in the default path from ssh
[19:01] <mwhudson> you can set the path as an environment variable or in the config
[19:01] <keithy> but if I use ssh manually it is
[19:02] <mwhudson> it's probably in some file your shell executes
[19:02] <keithy> k
[19:03] <mwhudson> there's no shell involved if you run ssh $host bzr
[19:03] <keithy> ok Ill try that
[19:03] <mwhudson> if bzr+ssh fails, that will fail
[19:04] <keithy> yep bingo
[19:04] <Tak> sweet, I'm up to 1g memory used for a lightweight checkout
[19:04] <Tak> I hope it's over 50% done...
[19:05] <keithy> ok so... someone needs to tell the mac os x installer people that their move doesnt work
[19:05] <keithy> it used to be in /usr/bin/bzr
[19:07] <fullermd> Er.  Yes there is a shell involved...
[19:08] <fullermd> bash will read different rc files for an interactive vs. non session though, so you may need to set $PATH somewhere else.
[19:12]  * Tak Out of memory - terminating application.
[19:12]  * Tak cry
[19:12] <keithy> ouch
[19:19] <lifeless> Tak: what bzr version ?
[19:21] <Tak> 2.0.3
[19:42] <lifeless> hi jam
[19:46] <jam> hi lifeless
[19:47] <jam> you seem to be up early
[19:47] <lifeless> I'm in NZ
[19:47] <jam> is LCA in a differnt T?
[19:47] <jam> ah
[19:47] <lifeless> abentley: could you link the branch to review, I can't find it in mail./
[19:49] <abentley> lifeless: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~abentley/bzr-pqm/lpland/
[19:51] <jam> lifeless: you seem to be having a good time at LCA
[20:18] <igc> morning
[20:36] <keithy> hi
[20:37] <keithy> how to you set access rights to a repo
[20:37] <keithy> or make it read only?
[20:37] <keithy> for checking out only
[20:38] <Lo-lan-do> keithy: I usually stick it into a location accessible through HTTP.
[20:39] <keithy> hmm
[20:39] <keithy> is there a checkout readonly?
[20:39] <Lo-lan-do> Meaning?
[20:40] <keithy> if people use that then there is no chance of them accidentally checking in
[20:40] <keithy> i.e. deploy
[20:41] <Lo-lan-do> Well, no, the plain HTTP server only has read access to the files in the repo.
[20:41] <keithy> I set up ssh
[20:41] <keithy> and bzr+ssh
[20:42] <keithy> setting up http is a pain.
[20:42] <keithy> can I just chmod it
[20:42] <Lo-lan-do> You can chmod -R the repo, yes.
[20:43] <keithy> k, thall have to do
[20:43] <Lo-lan-do> That's how I do access control on my repos: each project has its group, and the repos are chgrped+chmodded.
[20:43] <Lo-lan-do> So only members of group foo can commit to repo foo.
[20:43] <keithy> k
[20:44] <Lo-lan-do> Others can read only, or nothing, some repos are private (and therefore rwxrws---).
[20:47] <Lo-lan-do> keithy: There's an administrator's guide on the website, as I found out today, with interesting points about common problems.
[20:48] <keithy> k ty
[23:00] <Glenjamin_> is there something other than the -D flags i need to use to get debug information?
[23:00] <Glenjamin_> "bzr -Dhttp -Dauth update" isnt giving me any additional output
[23:03] <lifeless> check ~/.bzr.log
[23:03] <Glenjamin_> yeah, i realised that now, unfortunately it hasn't enlightened me on the problem at all :(


[00:07] <karni> zacktu: if local files are more recent than cloud files, once U1 is turned on (working properly), it would not overwrite them. *if* you have changed files locally, and the files in the cloud were modified from elsewhere (like another computer B, while your computer A was disconnected), you would get a your_file.conflict file
[00:07] <karni> zacktu: In practice, U1 should never overwrite your modified files.
[00:08] <karni> zacktu: It would do a local rescan, and start uploading to Ubuntu One.
[00:08] <karni> zacktu: try launching Ubuntu One control panel and see what's up with U1.
[00:14] <zacktu> karni: U1 never resumed syncing.  If I right clock on a local file and select "start synchronizing with U1" nothing happens.  Perhaps it's the wording of an option, but it makes me think that U1 will overwrite from the repository.   I'm going to save a directory and then do an experiment.  Maybe then I'll feel confident and sync everything.  Thanks.  bye
[00:15] <karni> duanedesign: ping
[00:15] <karni> duanedesign: unping
[00:20] <nhaines> karni: is Android 4.0 anything exciting for you?  :)
[00:21] <karni> nhaines: O HELL YEAH? ;D ~
[00:21] <karni> nhaines: howdy :))
[00:21] <nhaines> Haha, hi!
[00:21] <karni> nhaines: TBH I thought it'd look nicer. But the APIs and possibilities are sweeet :)
[00:21] <nhaines> I'm just waiting for my T-Mobile G2 to get it (probably when I put Cyanogenmod on it).
[00:21] <nhaines> Also my poor N1!
[00:31] <karni> nhaines: uuu shweet! I doubt my Desire Z will get it any soon
[00:31] <karni> nhaines: I'll probably get a galaxy nexus in January
[00:32] <karni> nhaines: Although, TBH, I have become to like the physical keyboard for IRC purposes ;>
[00:32] <nhaines> karni: yeah, my G2 is basically a Desire Z, I think.
[00:32] <karni> I've taken a little holiday at work, and need to get round to my university stuff. How boooring is that..
[00:33] <karni> nhaines: \o/
[00:33] <nhaines> karni: And yeah, I won't buy another phone without a hard keyboard.  I love my N1 but trying to use the screen keyboard with connectbot just made me want to punch a kitten.
[00:33] <karni> nhaines: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/09/htc-desire-z-hero-september-15-2010-1284550160.jpg
[00:33] <karni> nhaines: have you rooted it successfully?
[00:33] <karni> nhaines: hahah, exactly!
[00:33] <nhaines> karni: shiny!  Mine looks just like that but says T-Mobile and doesn't have SenseUI.  :)
[00:34] <karni> nhaines: ah :)
[00:34] <nhaines> I don't think I've rooted it, but it's not hard.
[00:34]  * karni wishes he hadn't SenseUI as well
[00:34] <karni> nhaines: I've tried, and TBH I couldn't. It just wouldn't give me the dang su.
[00:34] <nhaines> Actually, I did root it to revert back to stock, so I could apply the official Gingerbread update.  I ended up on a leaked test update from T-Mobile/HTC and couldn't apply the final one I think.
[00:35] <karni> nhaines: oh right! I think I would need to downgrade first :/
[00:35] <karni> Which doesn't sound appealing.
[00:35] <nhaines> I needed root to downgrade.  :)
[00:35] <nhaines> It was simple.
[00:36] <karni> nhaines: I envy phones with "easy root".
[00:36] <karni> I think I'll give it another shot.
[00:36] <karni> I could use root purely for development purposes. If I could load an ICS on it, wohoo \o/
[00:37] <nhaines> haha \o/
[00:38] <karni> nhaines: Are you running Ubuntu?
[00:38] <nhaines> karni: yup!
[00:39] <nhaines> karni: might have to think about upgrading to precise soon, but this secondary computer sort of became a work computer, hehe.
[00:39] <karni> nhaines: I've tried Precise Pangolin 12.04 recently. Although I wans't a fan of Unity, and I'm still on 11.04, I've installed PP and.. I am greatly pleased :)
[00:40] <nhaines> I actually like Unity most of the time.  :)  What's nice about PP?
[00:40] <karni> I was just waiting for a little free time to make the switch :)
[00:40] <karni> nhaines: I'll be honest with you. I don't know! Maybe that's the thing, maybe everything is working like it should, it looks great, and there's nothing to complain :)
[00:40] <nhaines> Haha, well, that's fine... that's always a nice thing.
[00:41] <karni> nhaines: I like that webcam and printers appeared in the top right menu, I'm aware software center is crashing (hey, it's alpha 1)
[00:41] <karni> nhaines: But it somehow gave me better impression than 11.10
[00:41] <nhaines> Oh, that already happens for 11.10, but not the crashing.  :)
[00:41] <karni> hahah :D
[00:42] <nhaines> Choosing Webcam just makes Software Center come up with the page for Cheese, haha.
[00:42] <nhaines> I like the new web market for SC.
[00:42] <nhaines> I mean at apps.ubuntu.com
[00:42] <karni> nhaines: I've noticed I recently skip every second release. Perhaps because I wouldn't want to break my developer setup, and I'm just too cozy to jump on new versions.
[00:42] <nhaines> Sure, that makes sense.  The laptop gets every crazy new release but my desktop stays cozy until RC or Beta 1 or 2ish.
[00:43] <karni> nhaines: (ad Webcam) oh, hahah :D
[00:43] <nhaines> In fact, I'm doing Ubuntu Hour in about 75 minutes, maybe I'll burn an Alpha 1 CD.  :)
[00:43] <karni> nhaines: Ubuntu Hour :)?
[00:44] <nhaines> karni: sure, do you know them?  http://www.nhaines.com/ubuntu/hour/
[00:44] <karni> nhaines: I have 11.04 (on it now) and 12.04 installed on my laptop, which is my primary machine :)
[00:44]  * karni looks
[00:45] <nhaines> karni: it's a *terrible* picture of me but I'm on the left in the picture there, if you click on it.
[00:45] <karni> nhaines: oh that's an awesome thing! the Ubuntu Hour
[00:45] <karni> nhaines: not terrible at all! \o/
[00:46] <karni> Talking about ubuntu over a sandwitch and tea sound like a nice thing to do.
[00:46] <karni> I could reach out to a LoCo in Warsaw, I think we have one. Never had time, though :(
[00:46] <nhaines> karni: haha, the picture is skewed somehow?  Everything's slanted on the edges and no one's sure how the waitress managed it, haha.
[00:47] <nhaines> karni: this is a *much* better picture of me.  :) http://ubucon.org/scale/scale9x/sessions.html#answersNH
[00:48] <nhaines> But yeah, Ubuntu hour is definitely designed to be low work.
[00:48] <karni> nhaines: ha! both are good. I think I'm blind, seeing no skew at all ;D
[00:49] <nhaines> haha, thanks!
[00:49] <karni> nhaines: is Long Beach a city or just part of Los Angeles? LA is pretty huge (no wonder)
[00:50] <nhaines> I'll take a new one soon like the ubucon.org one, where I have the new grey polo shirt.
[00:50] <nhaines> Long Beach is a city, and just south of Los Angeles.
[00:51] <karni> Right, sorry for my ignorance.
[00:51] <nhaines> Nah, it's not ignorance. They're next to each other and LA is absolutely huge.
[00:51] <karni> nhaines: I'll head to read a little more on Ant (yeah! still used by Android devs), and get some sleep. In the mean time, I wish you a great Ubuntu Hour! :)
[00:51] <karni> nhaines: :)
[00:52] <nhaines> karni: thanks!    Is it the dates (which we already agreed) or the milestone names?
[14:26] <dobey> nessita: are you ok with the version numbering i picked for the milestones?
[14:27] <nessita> dobey: the idea is to have the same numbering in all projects, right?
[14:28] <dobey> yes
[14:29] <dobey> mostly; am unsure about devtools and dirspec right now, but i've set up these same milestones on most of the projects already
[14:30] <nessita> dobey: yes, I like what you've done with the 99.5 vs 99.90
[14:30] <nessita> dobey: are you setting up the same milestones in all projects? (a script may help, I have one you can adapt(
[14:30] <nessita> __
[14:30] <nessita> ))
[14:30] <nessita> :-P
[14:30] <dobey> yes i am
[14:30] <nessita> dobey: you have my +1
[14:31] <dobey> i thought about writing a script to do it, but figured it's just as fast to just do it
[14:31] <nessita> dobey: I beg to differ, but since you're doing it this time, you are free to choose the method that works best for you
[14:33] <dobey> well, it would be just as fast for me to do it by hand; as it would be for me to write a script, set up one project, and then run the script N times to copy to other projects (assuming script works on first try, which is not a common experience with my writing lp scripts) :)
[14:33] <nessita> dobey: I have a base script you can adapt, but as you wish. Let me know if you want it.
[14:34] <dobey> nessita: i have a base script i could adopt; it's in lptools. converts milestones with dates into an ical format file to import into a calendar :)
[14:34] <nessita> nice
[14:34] <dobey> but i'm almost done with setting up the milestones at this point anyway
[14:35] <nessita> ack then
[14:39] <elopio> nessita: why are you suggesting to use .format instead of % ?
[14:42] <dobey> elopio: % is deprecated, .format() is the new new
[14:43] <elopio> dobey: um, that's a good reason.
[14:43] <dobey> nessita: also, you are using nightlies, yes?
[14:44] <nessita> dobey: of course!
[14:44] <nessita> elopio: and what dobey said :-)
[14:45] <dobey> nessita: can you install ubuntuone-control-panel-qt, and remove ubuntuone-control-panel-gtk, and tell me what all is broken? :)
[14:45] <nessita> a ver....
[14:46] <nessita> dobey: you made them conflict?
[14:46] <dobey> well, the launcher will be broken
[14:46] <dobey> no
[14:46] <nessita> do I need to remove the -gtk one?
[14:46] <dobey> i don't see any good reason for them to conflict
[14:46] <nessita> right
[14:46] <nessita> dobey: so, why remove the -gtk one?
[14:47] <dobey> but having both installed might hide some problems, if -qt actually depends on stuff in -gtk
[14:47] <nessita> ah
[14:47] <dobey> there are some images and such that i am not sure about, which are in the -gtk package
[14:50] <nessita> dobey: the first error I see is that the ..gui.qt/ python package has more python packages in it, which are not in the ubuntu package
[14:50] <nessita> dobey: so, right now, is failing with
[14:50] <nessita>     from ubuntuone.controlpanel.gui.qt import main
[14:50] <nessita> ImportError: cannot import name main
[14:50] <nessita> because the main/ python package is not installed
[14:51] <nessita> besides the main/ packages there are some others to install
[14:51] <nessita> main and ui, specifically
[14:51] <nessita> also tests, but I know we don't install those
[14:51] <nessita> dobey: so, you should add main/ and ui/ in http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntuone-control-tower/ubuntuone-control-panel/packaging-dailies/view/head:/ubuntuone-control-panel-qt.install
[14:52] <dobey> so setup.py is broken?
[14:52] <nessita> dobey: .... no?
[14:52] <nessita> o si? let me checl
[14:52] <nessita> check*
[14:52] <dobey> if they are under qt/ they should get pulled in already
[14:53] <dobey> if they're not getting pulled in, then setup.py probably isn't installing them
[14:53] <nessita> yes, setup.py is broken
[14:53] <nessita> I wonder how roberto is installing this in windows if setup.py is broken
[14:53] <ralsina> nessita: manually
[14:53] <dobey> heh
[14:53] <dobey> :(
[14:53] <nessita> ralsina: hey there!
[14:53] <ralsina> nessita: hello from vacationland! ;-)
[14:54] <nessita> ralsina: was there any issue that prevent you to fix setup.py?
[14:54] <ralsina> nessita: it's one of those things where I did a workaround and forgot about
[14:54] <nessita> (Otherwise I will propose a fix now)
[14:54] <nessita> ack
[14:54] <nessita> dobey: I will propose a branch
[14:54] <nessita> dobey: can you please file me a bug?
[14:56] <ralsina> ok, I will be really gone for a few hours, will be back eventually to push the windows release a bit.
[14:56] <ralsina> bbye
[14:57] <dobey> nessita: bug #905354
[14:57] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 905354 in ubuntuone-control-panel "setup.py missing some packages for Qt (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/905354
[14:57] <nessita> thanks
[15:01] <nessita> dobey: IRL tetsing instructions attached:  https://code.launchpad.net/~nataliabidart/ubuntuone-control-panel/fix-setup-for-qt/+merge/86053
[15:01] <nessita> me!
[15:01] <nessita> gatox, dobey: stdup?
[15:01] <gatox> me
[15:02] <dobey> meh
[15:02] <nessita> DONE: reviews, more on bug #834730, catch up with gatox re: creating link on windows
[15:02] <nessita> TODO: fix tests for bug #834730, bug #905354
[15:02] <nessita> BLOCKED: nopes
[15:02] <nessita> NEXT: gatox
[15:02] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 834730 in ubuntuone-client (and 1 other project) "Use SignalBroadcaster and RemoteMeta from ubuntu sso client (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/834730
[15:02] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 905354 in ubuntuone-control-panel "setup.py missing some packages for Qt (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/905354
[15:02] <gatox> DONE:
[15:02] <gatox> Not very much.... keep fighting with ctypes... some access violation issues and stuff like that
[15:02] <gatox> TODO:
[15:02] <gatox> Keep doing that
[15:02] <gatox> BLOCKED:
[15:02] <gatox> until i fix my ctypes problems :P
[15:02] <gatox> dobey, go
[15:02] <dobey> λ DONE: some trunk vs stable discussion, release planning, packaged u1cp-qt
[15:02] <dobey> λ TODO: hack day, fixes in gireactor for twisted review
[15:02] <dobey> λ BLCK: No.
[15:03] <dobey> finito
[15:03] <nessita> eom!
[15:14] <dobey> gah, lp is being really slow, or dumb
[15:16] <dobey> i'll go with dumb
[15:16] <dobey> nessita: approved
[15:16] <nessita> thanks!
[16:05]  * gatox lunch!
[16:12] <Monk> Hello?
[16:13] <Guest42191> I am after some help with a PC/XBox/Selling question...
[16:14] <dobey> hi
[16:14] <Guest42191> I am looking at purchasing an XBox Live code online (NOT MICROSOFT) and I was wondering how it works. When I pay for the code they say its automatically sent to your email, how do they do that?
[16:15] <dobey> i think you're asking in the wrong place. this channel is for the Ubuntu One service, not general questions
[16:15] <dobey> but that sounds like a scam
[16:15] <Guest42191> Oh I don't even know what that means XP
[16:16] <Guest42191> It's not because a friend of my runs it and I wanna know how he does it lol
[16:16] <dobey> ask him then
[16:16] <Guest42191> He wont tell me, I'll have to keep searching for an answer
[16:16] <dobey> this channel is for https://one.ubuntu.com/ services
[16:19] <dobey> well, that was different
[16:32] <Chipaca> that use of "different" suddenly makes "think different" make sense
[16:35] <dobey> lol
[16:43] <dobey> lunch time, bbiab
[17:01] <nessita> lunchtime!
[17:17] <Doughy> I'm having a strage problem with U1. My files don't upload until a long time later, and after I have changed subsequent files.
[17:17] <Doughy> Anyone know what the issue is?
[17:18] <Doughy> For example, if I change a file, sometimes it won't upload for a long time. But then if I go change some other files, I get a notification in the upper right side of my screen saying the original file is now being uploaded.
[17:18] <Doughy> I changed a file yesterday, and it never uploaded until just now.
[17:31] <Doughy> Wow, this place is totally dead.
[17:31] <Doughy> Kind of defeats the purpose of an IRC help channel.
[17:43] <gatox> nessita, DID IT!!!!!!!!!
[17:43] <nessita> gatox: GROSO
[17:43]  * gatox start crying :P
[17:43] <nessita> gatox: is the code too complicated?
[17:44] <gatox> nessita, it depends.... if we can use a lib that i found that it's based on ctypes: no..... if we've to extract what we need from that lib...... it's a bunch of classes
[17:44] <nessita> gatox: what's the lib?
[17:45] <gatox> comtypes...... let me give you a link (it's something that used to be in python but then was removed, and someone created a independent lib to wrap com libs..... similar to pywin32, but at a more lower level)
[17:45] <gatox> http://sourceforge.net/projects/comtypes/
[17:46] <gatox> nessita, maybe using this we can even avoid some ctypes code that we already have
[17:47] <nessita> gatox: you mean the code for rename, for example?
[17:47] <nessita> gatox: do you know why it was moved away from python?
[17:48] <gatox> nessita, nop.... i can research that if you want
[17:48] <gatox> it used to be in ctypes.com
[17:49] <nessita> gatox: I would like to know if the lib has security issues or something like that
[17:50] <nessita> gatox: is weird that it was moved from python. So, that info may be interesting to make a decision on depending on it
[17:50] <gatox> i think that it was removed because ctypes.com was old and was superseeded by comtypes and pywin32
[17:50] <gatox> nessita, ok..... i'll look at that...... but the important thing, is that this is doable :P
[17:50] <nessita> gatox: :-)
[17:50] <nessita> gatox: congracs! I know you have worked very hard on this
[17:51] <nessita> and I know how frustrating it can get
[17:51] <gatox> nessita, thanks! :D
[17:54] <gatox> with ctypes. I intend to release comtypes separately.
[17:54] <gatox> Some time ago I removed ctypes.com from the CVS repository, so you
[17:54] <gatox> should use comtypes for new code.
[17:55] <nessita> gatox: hum?
[18:17] <dobey> meh; can't have @property work right on module objects :(
[18:28] <dobey> gatox, nessita: what all do we redefine, from os.path?
[18:29] <nessita> dobey: I'm not sure I understand the question
[18:29] <gatox> mme neither....
[18:29] <nessita> dobey: all the methods we redefine are listed in os_helper.py in u1client
[18:32] <dobey> "more than 1" i guess
[18:32] <nessita> dobey: yeah, more than 10 I'd say
[18:34] <dobey> i was hoping it was just expanduser
[18:35] <dobey> do either of you have any idea how to have a property on a module object?
[18:36] <nessita> dobey: hum... what do you need to achieve that you want that?
[18:37] <dobey> trying to keep API compat with xdg.BaseDirectory, the tiny bit that i hopefully can, to make switching less of a chore
[18:40] <dobey> but just doing @property on def xdg_cache_home() for example, results in a property object, if i don't just call it as xdg_cache_home() but just use xdg_cache_home to reference it
[18:43] <nessita> dobey: i could not follow :-/
[18:43] <nessita> sorry
[18:45] <dobey> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/772521/
[18:46] <dobey> nessita: ^^ this behavior is what i am seeing
[18:46]  * nessita looks
[18:46] <dobey> maybe i am an idiot and doing something wrong; or maybe @property just can't be used this way
[18:47] <nessita> dobey: I would have expect to use property inside a class, but let me read a bit about that
[18:48] <nessita> dobey: from http://docs.python.org/library/functions.html#property, "Return a property attribute for new-style classes (classes that derive from object)."
[18:48] <nessita> dobey: I don't think property is meant to be used for module-level defs
[18:50] <dobey> :(
[18:53] <nessita> dobey: if I recall correctly, in python 3 modules will be objects as well
[18:53] <nessita> so you would be able to do that then
[18:54] <dobey> well that doesn't help me now :)
[18:54] <dobey> unless you want to make all of u1 require python3
[18:55] <nessita> dobey: LETS
[18:55] <nessita> :-D
[18:55] <dobey> heh
[18:55] <dobey> barry would love us anyway
[18:55] <dobey> everyone else would hate us
[18:55] <nessita> dobey: who cares about hate?
[18:56] <dobey> haters
[18:56] <dobey> they collect it
[18:59] <dobey> nessita: any ideas how to get the same behavior in python2?
[19:01] <nessita> dobey: I'm sure we can work something around, I'm not completely I understand the ultimate goal. So, you want to have a new module foo.py where xdg_cache_home can be used as a value, but you want to implement it as a method?
[19:01] <dobey> yes
[19:01] <nessita> dobey: giving you a snippet in a few minutes
[19:02] <dobey> i'm trying to write testable code for once ;)
[19:02] <nessita> :-)
[19:03] <dobey> if i can't do it that way, that's fine
[19:04] <nessita> dobey: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/772539/
[19:04] <nessita> dobey: and you can easily unittest TheFoo class on one hand, and the module level xdg_foo on the other
[19:04] <dobey> ah, yes; but don't need a class to do that
[19:04] <nessita> dobey: right, but is cleaner
[19:05] <nessita> dobey: specially if you come from a language where *everything* is class
[19:05] <nessita> :-)
[19:05]  * nessita enjoyed her days working with Eiffel
[19:05] <dobey> heh
[19:06] <dobey> i don't think i will unneccessarily use objects :)
[19:07] <dobey> i like how __all__ is basically useless, too
[19:08] <nessita> dobey: is Friday, ranting is only allowed from Mon ro Thru :-P
[19:09] <dobey> well i just called something that wasn't in __all__ from the test, and the test passed just fine :)
[19:10] <dobey> and i think i see a bug in the windows impl in sso :-/
[19:14] <nessita> dobey: what bug?
[19:16] <dobey> it seems to put some of the xdg dirs in weird places
[20:06] <gatox> eod see you on monday!
[20:26] <dobey> man, python coverage is useless; the more tests i add, the lower the number is!
[20:51] <dobey> whee