[05:20] <Kilos> morning all
[05:20]  * Kilos hopes for a peaceful day
[05:39] <inetpro> hi Kilos
[05:40] <Kilos> hi inetpro you are early
[05:40] <inetpro> ja ons hoop maar dinge is weer rustig
[05:40] <Kilos> ja dis n pein gewees gister
[05:40] <Kilos> pyn
[05:40] <inetpro> I'm always early man
[05:41]  * inetpro never sleeps
[05:43] <Kilos> hahaha
[05:44] <Kilos> ek wil die ding probeer maar dis nie vir 12.04 nie, sal moet leer om te backport of iets snaaks
[05:44] <Kilos> http://davidplanella.org/ubuntu-emulator-quickstart-guide/
[05:48] <inetpro> what is that?
[05:48] <Kilos> emulator
[05:48] <Kilos> i want whatsapp on pc
[05:49] <Kilos> cant find ubuntu-emulator-runtime for 12.04
[05:49] <Kilos> sigh
[05:49] <Kilos> only source
[05:50] <inetpro> Not sure what app will work on that yet
[05:51] <Kilos> i thought all android stuff should be able to work if you know what you are doing
[05:51] <Kilos> hehe
[05:51] <inetpro> whatsapp needs a number
[05:52] <Kilos> im not sure about the whole thing but ian will buy a sim card get whatsapp registration or something and give me the info
[05:52] <inetpro> that is not an Android emulator, or did I miss something
[05:52] <Kilos> oh and there is whatsapp for pidgin too but also needs the number
[05:53] <Kilos> no its the ubuntu one
[05:53] <Kilos> if the ubuntu touch can do whatsapp then it should work here with the emulater
[05:53] <inetpro> anyway,. nothing wrong with trying
[05:53] <Kilos> right or wrong?
[05:54] <Kilos> ya better than watching bad stuffs
[05:54]  * inetpro has to go
[05:54] <Kilos> yesterday was most distressing
[05:54] <Kilos> go safe
[05:54] <inetpro> have a nice peaceful day
[05:55] <Kilos> danke
[06:09] <superfly> Kilos: Ubuntu Touch can't run WhatsApp
[06:10] <Kilos> oh my, ty superfly
[06:10] <Kilos> morning
[06:10] <superfly> hi
[06:11] <superfly> Ubuntu Touch cannot run Android apps
[06:12] <Kilos> ah, i cant sort the android-sdk thing to work here so will try go with the pidgin route
[06:12] <superfly> Kilos: also, technically you'd be violating WhatsApp's terms and conditions
[06:13] <Kilos> ill get a sim and register legally superfly
[06:13] <Kilos> then use that on pidgin
[06:34] <Kilos> wbb
[06:57] <somaunn> Hi guys
[06:57] <somaunn> hi Kilos
[06:57] <somaunn> hi inetpro
[06:57] <somaunn> hi Squirm
[06:57] <somaunn> hi superfly
[06:58] <Kilos> hi somaunn
[07:00] <somaunn> what the topics here
[07:00] <Kilos> linux stuff
[07:00] <Kilos> hi adeebnqo
[07:01] <adeebnqo> Kilos: hello
[07:01] <Kilos> just did all of this http://www.howtoforge.com/virtualization-with-kvm-on-ubuntu-12.04-lts
[07:17] <somaunn> Kilos: cool having a quick look at that
[07:17] <Kilos> hi Private_User
[07:18] <Private_User> hi Kilos
[07:34] <superfly> Kilos: you'll want to install something like VirtMgr which has a GUI. kvm is designed to run on a server, not a desktop.
[07:43] <Kilos> aha ty superfly
[07:44] <Kilos> virt-manager
[08:57] <Kilos> superfly, you here?
[08:57] <Symmetria> sup
[08:57] <Kilos> can i forward you a mail, i dont understand what it is all about, is it spam
[08:57] <Kilos> hi Symmetria
[08:58] <Symmetria> Kilos
[08:58] <Symmetria> https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10152016878155528&type=1&l=c906d5faa1
[08:58] <Symmetria> check that out
[08:58] <Symmetria> africa at its finest
[08:59] <Kilos> i dont go fb
[08:59] <Kilos> well hardly ever
[08:59] <Kilos> what is it?
[08:59] <Symmetria> heh thats just a photo album
[08:59] <Symmetria> its worth seeing
[09:00] <Symmetria> heh, photos I took in the last 48 hours
[09:00] <Kilos> ok
[09:00] <Symmetria> they are worth seeing :) seriously
[09:03] <Kilos> lol i kn ow what animals look like man
[09:03] <Kilos> know
[09:03] <Kilos> tv shows great animal clips
[09:04] <Symmetria> kilos heh, I took those all myself in the middle of the maasai mara
[09:04] <Symmetria> which is a place everyone should see once
[09:04] <Symmetria> truely amazing
[09:08] <Kilos> you spend too much time galivanting and not enough working
[09:08] <Kilos> but nice pics ya
[09:09] <Symmetria> lol thats only 5 hours drive from Nairobi
[09:10] <Kilos> as i say too much time galivanting
[09:11] <Kilos> ah superfly its scam
[09:11]  * Kilos installs sugarplum again
[09:13] <Kilos> i googled<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[10:20] <charl> good morning
[10:20] <Kilos> hi charl
[10:21] <charl> hi Kilos
[10:21] <charl> how's it going
[10:21] <Kilos> good ty and you?
[10:22] <charl> i'm doing well
[10:22] <charl> http://www.circleid.com/posts/20140124_usg_provides_first_official_statement_on_montevideo_brazil/
[10:23] <charl> american pilitics *puke*
[10:24] <charl> Symmetria: nice photos! it reminds me of when i went to nairobi national park in 2011
[10:25] <charl> you can't believe there would be such a beautiful national park right next to one of the biggest cities
[10:25] <charl> i particularly like the composure of this one: https://scontent-a-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/t1/q71/s720x720/1555492_10152016874160528_1300045619_n.jpg
[10:30] <somaunn> hi Kilos
[10:39] <Kilos> lol
[10:39] <Kilos> yoyo
[11:16] <Kilos> ho Golynx
[11:17] <Golynx> Heya Kilos
[12:18] <Kilos> hi Private_User psydroid
[12:18] <Kilos> storm coming here
[12:23] <psydroid> hi Kilos
[12:29] <theblazehen> hi Kilos, all
[12:29] <Kilos> hi theblazehen
[12:36] <theblazehen> Kilos, how's it been going?
[12:36] <Kilos> very good ty and you lad?
[12:36] <theblazehen> Going fine here. Didn't expect this much school work though, big step up from last year
[12:37] <Kilos> what standard now?
[12:37] <theblazehen> 9 I think.. Grade 11
[12:37] <Kilos> or grades, im not sure what they call then anymore
[12:37] <Kilos> ah 1 before highschool finished
[12:37] <Private_User> hey Kilos
[12:37] <theblazehen> yeah..
[12:37] <theblazehen> hey Private_User
[12:38] <theblazehen> Bit nervous about after school TBH
[12:38] <Kilos> peeps used to say 9 was harder than matric but i dunno so much
[12:38] <Private_User> hi theblazehen
[12:38] <Kilos> TBH?
[12:38] <theblazehen> Kilos, That's what they also say no || To be honest
[12:38] <Kilos> haha
[12:39] <theblazehen> s/no/now
[12:40] <Kilos> just do your best
[12:40] <Kilos> what more can one ask
[12:40] <theblazehen> yeah..
[12:42] <theblazehen> just worried that "my best" < "good enough"
[12:43] <Kilos> nope man, if you put lotsa effort in its always enough
[12:43] <Kilos> do you do lotsa work on pcs in school nowadays
[12:44] <theblazehen> nope, just basic word + excel in school :(
[12:44] <Kilos> oh so still books and written homework
[12:45] <theblazehen> yep
[12:45] <Kilos> good, dont want you guys having things too easy
[12:45] <Kilos> hehe
[12:45] <theblazehen> Not even allowed tech more advanced than calculator..
[12:45] <Kilos> yeah well then kids would be googling for answers
[12:46] <theblazehen> Well some teachers allow it, and internet at school is horrible. Can't even do reliable IRC
[12:47] <Kilos> ai!
[12:47] <Kilos> adsl?
[12:48] <theblazehen> pretty much. 1 mbit shared, over 1000 students + teachers
[12:48] <Kilos> ouch
[12:48] <theblazehen> With a pretty crappy untangle filter
[12:49] <theblazehen> And the admin.. I wouldn't exactly call competent
[12:49] <Kilos> my 3g seems more stable since setting up minicom
[12:49] <theblazehen> (I am able to access teacher files, due to incorrectly set permissions)
[12:49] <theblazehen> nice
[12:49] <Kilos> or cutecom , i forget which one now
[12:50] <Kilos> dont be naughty
[12:50] <theblazehen> Yeah, don't DO anything with it lol
[12:50] <theblazehen> Was just looking around
[12:50] <Kilos> hehe
[12:53] <Private_User> but you are lucky dude, we never even had a proper computer lab at school
[12:54] <theblazehen> Private_User, yeah. Computers pretty decent, 2GB RAM, 2.1 GHz dual core P4
[12:55] <Private_User> and we still had those old x86 machines, you know the one with 2 floppy drives
[12:55] <Private_User> one for booting the other to run software
[12:55] <Kilos> lol
[12:55] <Kilos> 486
[12:55] <Private_User> remember those Kilos
[12:56] <Kilos> thats what i started here with
[12:56] <theblazehen> ah, nice, depending on when it was
[12:56] <theblazehen> which year Private_User ?
[12:56] <Kilos> about 6 or 7 years ago
[12:56] <Kilos> hehe
[12:56] <Private_User> more like 14years ago
[12:56] <Kilos> no
[12:57] <Kilos> started with what other peeps thew away
[12:57] <Private_User> lol
[12:57] <Kilos> 1 year before 8.04
[12:57] <theblazehen> Decent 14 years ago..
[12:58] <Kilos> 6 years and some months
[12:58] <Kilos> struggled with them old things
[12:58] <Kilos> but learned lots
[13:00] <Kilos> oh also remember an old pc about 20 years ago that ran from floppy
[13:01] <Kilos> those 5 1/2 inch ones
[13:01] <Kilos> but the kids played on that
[13:03] <Private_User> yeah I remember when we bought our first computer it was a 286
[13:04] <Private_User> and playing those old 2D games
[13:04] <Private_User> I wonder if we could still find some of them and whether we could get them to work on ubuntu...
[13:05] <Kilos> lol
[13:05] <Kilos> i have a 386 and a 486  that were working when they went to the storeroom
[13:07] <theblazehen> Private_User, only 486 or better will work
[13:07] <theblazehen> Kilos, linux on your 486 maybe?
[13:08] <Kilos> i ran dos on them
[13:08] <Kilos> and win 95 on the 486
[13:09] <Kilos> but they got me thinking again
[13:09] <theblazehen> Kilos, install gentoo on the 486 ;) Or ubuntu server / debian
[13:14] <Kilos> i got a p3 i will use for a server one day
[13:15] <theblazehen> Kilos, will be a killer on the power...
[13:15] <Kilos> hopefully
[13:15] <theblazehen> A Pi will probably be faster + less power
[13:16] <Kilos> oh you mean electricity
[13:16] <theblazehen> Kilos, yeah..
[13:16] <theblazehen> lol
[13:17] <Kilos> no money for toys man, just spent 2 years savings to but a lga1155 mobo cpu ram and psu
[13:17] <Kilos> now to start saving again for better cpu
[13:17] <theblazehen> Kilos, ah, that sucks.. Can you sell components?
[13:18] <Kilos> what components
[13:18] <theblazehen> eg. RAM
[13:18] <theblazehen> some places might need the old ram, etc.
[13:18] <Kilos> for what pc
[13:18] <theblazehen> the P3
[13:19] <Kilos> i took that sdr ram for my p4
[13:19] <theblazehen> Old components are rare, and SOMEONE will have something important which only runs on old pc
[13:19] <theblazehen> ah
[13:20] <Kilos> my p4 is an early version that uses the sdr ram so moved it from p3 to p4
[13:20] <Kilos> now boet in law playing games on it
[13:21] <Kilos> ram is always expensive hey? i paid big bucks for that old ram
[13:21] <Kilos> just got 4g ddr3 for about the same as i paid for 640m sdr
[13:22] <theblazehen> Kilos, got 16Gb for under R700
[13:22] <Kilos> wow
[13:23] <Kilos> i just paid 450 about for 4g
[13:23] <theblazehen> Yeah, I got 2nd hand some of it
[13:23] <theblazehen> friends were rebuilding PC's
[13:24] <Kilos> ah
[13:26] <theblazehen> Used to run up to 14 VM's on it :)
[13:26] <Kilos> wow
[13:28] <Kilos> hi hekkwan
[13:32] <hekkwan> howdy
[13:38] <Xethron> Greetings
[13:38] <Xethron> You guys know of any Web Devs in Gauteng?
[13:39] <Kilos> hi Xethron
[13:39] <Kilos> ask tonight when there are more peeps here
[13:39] <Kilos> and even ask on the mailing list
[13:40] <theblazehen> Xethron, what do you need done?
[13:40] <Kilos> lots of jhb peeps dont come here but use the lists
[13:40] <Xethron> I have a job opening for one
[13:40] <theblazehen> Xethron, ah
[13:41] <Xethron> Looking for someone who knows PHP, MySQL, MVC, JS, jQuery, and all the rest
[13:41] <Xethron> theblazehen: you interested?
[13:42] <theblazehen> Hehe, I just know enough of the 1st 2 to get by
[13:42] <Xethron> haha
[13:42] <theblazehen> Besides still in HS, so can't get a job
[13:42] <theblazehen> Only freelance at best
[13:42] <Xethron> HS?
[13:42] <theblazehen> High School
[13:42] <Xethron> ah
[13:42] <Xethron> I see
[13:43] <Xethron> You want to study Programming?
[13:43] <theblazehen> Xethron, more heading in the sysadmin direction
[13:43] <Xethron> bleh
[13:43] <Xethron> one of those
[13:43] <theblazehen> hehe, why?
[13:43] <Xethron> :P
[13:43] <Xethron> Just curious
[13:44] <theblazehen> Meant why the "bleh"
[13:44] <Xethron> If you ever need help with PHP or something, gimme a shout
[13:44] <theblazehen> Sure, thanks
[13:44] <Xethron> Sysadmins are... Sysadmins...
[13:45] <theblazehen> Xethron, lol || Pretty decent with PHP +| MySQL, just can't do frontend stuff
[13:45] <Xethron> Used MVC before?
[13:46] <theblazehen> Xethron, nope..
[13:46] <Xethron> Download Laravel ( www.laravel.com ) and make sure it becomes your best friend
[13:46] <theblazehen> kk, ty
[13:46] <Xethron> Its a MVC PHP Framework...
[13:47] <Xethron> Which drastically increases productivity
[13:47] <theblazehen> ty
[13:47] <Xethron> :)
[13:47] <Kilos> Xethron, have you joined our mailing list
[13:47] <theblazehen> tl;dr MVC vs vanilla PHP?
[13:47] <Xethron> Doubt it Kilos
[13:49] <Xethron> theblazehen: Model, Views, Controller. Models are objects from your database (like a user model), views are the stuff that make your site pretty, and Controllers is the place you put all your code
[13:49] <theblazehen> Xethron, ah, ty
[13:49] <Xethron> Its a way to seperate your code so that it becomes more managable...
[13:50] <theblazehen> Hmm, would you use it for small projects as well?
[13:50] <theblazehen> Talking less than 200 lines with everything
[13:51] <theblazehen> http://i.imgur.com/ocWDwcU.jpg ... :/
[13:52] <Xethron> lol
[13:53] <Xethron> theblazehen: well, if its a "project", yes, I would do it in Laravel. Laravel is very easy to setup and start using
[13:54] <Xethron> But 200 lines sounds like halve of one of my classes :P
[13:54] <theblazehen> hehe, kk
[13:55] <theblazehen> Are you aware of bitcoin?
[13:55] <Xethron> yeah
[13:55] <Xethron> who isn't
[13:55] <theblazehen> Well I'm quite involved with an "altcoin", and wrote the faucet script
[13:57] <Xethron> ah, ok
[13:58] <Xethron> Well, if its something that will later expand, and won't only stay at 200 lines, yeah, try it in Laravel instead... Then it will be easy to make changes later
[14:03] <Xethron> Soooo, this went slightly off topic :P
[14:04] <Kilos> hehe
[14:04] <Golynx> Hi everyone
[14:04] <Kilos> hi Golynx
[14:04] <theblazehen> Xethron, kk, ty
[14:04] <Kilos> job in jhb if you interested
[14:05] <Kilos> Xethron, looking for a web dev
[14:05] <theblazehen> Golynx, hi. Lol, read logs, trender was a dick yesterday...
[14:05] <Golynx> Anyone know of a code editor that has a tag closing highlight feature ?
[14:05] <theblazehen> Golynx, vim?
[14:05] <Xethron> Golynx: what you mean?
[14:06] <Golynx> I cant find any Code editor in ubuntu that does that
[14:06] <theblazehen> Golynx, sublime text?
[14:06] <theblazehen> Pretty sure my vim does it, and ST did it if I understood you right
[14:06] <Kilos> Xethron, thats what Golynx does
[14:06] <Kilos> but he is far away
[14:07] <Golynx> Hey theblazehen, yeah he was. He got all cry baby in my pm's after we had a fight lol
[14:07] <Golynx> I hav'nt tried Vim yet
[14:07] <theblazehen> Golynx, vim is awesome
[14:07] <theblazehen> high learning curve however
[14:07] <Xethron> lol
[14:08] <Golynx> Just gedit, geany, sublime , and such
[14:08] <theblazehen> Golynx, if you get vim, get this too: https://github.com/spf13/spf13-vim
[14:08] <Golynx> Is Vim not just a command line interface  ?
[14:08] <Xethron> jup
[14:08] <theblazehen> Golynx, yeah
[14:08] <theblazehen> unless you get gvim
[14:08] <Xethron> so you have to learn all the shortcuts
[14:09] <Xethron> theblazehen: no point in getting gvim
[14:09] <Golynx> Hmm, i want a GUI editor though , i click alot lol
[14:09] <Xethron> if you get gvim, use sublime
[14:09] <theblazehen> Xethron, yeah, agreed
[14:09] <Xethron> Golynx: I'm not sure what it is you need?
[14:09] <Xethron> Golynx: highlight unclosed tags?
[14:09] <theblazehen> Xethron, has a menu though, for beginners
[14:10] <Golynx> I want a code editor similar to notepad++ in windows , but i cant use wine in ubuntu, not enough ram
[14:10] <Golynx> Yes Xethron
[14:10] <Xethron> Golynx: use Sublime
[14:10] <Xethron> What do you do?
[14:11] <Golynx> The only feature missing from the editors i tried is the , tag close highlighter
[14:11] <Kilos> Xethron, Golynx just switched to ubuntu from win 2 weeks ago
[14:11] <Xethron> Sublime works great for most programming editors
[14:11] <Golynx> Web development
[14:11] <Xethron> Golynx: Sublime is filled with Plugins
[14:12] <Xethron> I'm not sure what you mean by tag close highlighter though?
[14:12] <Golynx> Need to easilly see my closing tags in html and js
[14:12] <Xethron> umm
[14:12] <Xethron> So, if you select the opening tag, eg, <body>, you want it to highlight the </body> tag?
[14:13] <Golynx> I know but i cant find a plugin Xethron. People say to compile one myself lol
[14:13] <Golynx> Yes perfect Xethron
[14:13] <Xethron> oh, mine does that
[14:13] <Xethron> umm
[14:13] <Xethron> lemme get the plugin name for you
[14:13] <Golynx> ok cool
[14:14] <Xethron> Golynx: I have too many plugins :P
[14:14] <Xethron> but I think its BracketHighlighter
[14:16] <Golynx> Ok thanks Xethron i will try that one :)
[14:17] <inetpro> Golynx: once you learn vim you'll never want another editor
[14:20] <Golynx> I will try that inetpro thanks. But dunno if i need a command line editor for gui apps though
[14:21] <theblazehen> inetpro, ++
[14:21] <Xethron> inetpro: He recently switched to Ubuntu... Give him a year or two on Linux before pushing him to vim :P
[14:21] <theblazehen> inetpro, Just discovered the beauty of vim a week or so ago
[14:24] <theblazehen> When I only transfer 3 GB of data in 3 hours...
[14:25] <Golynx> haha yeah, i'm still a baby in linux :D
[14:26] <theblazehen> Golynx, why not try archlinux.org? It's what I use.. /s
[14:29] <Golynx> theblazehen can i use archlinux as a desktop environment ontop of unity
[14:30] <theblazehen> Golynx, arch is a completely different linux distro. You can install unity inside of arch, however you only start with a terminal
[14:30] <theblazehen> But in all seriousness if you REALLY wanna learn, try and get it installed in a VM
[14:31] <theblazehen> Learnt more in a day with arch than a month with Ubuntu
[14:32] <Kilos> theblazehen, dont mess with him now man
[14:32] <Kilos> he has xubuntu workin
[14:32] <theblazehen> Kilos, ok... lol :)
[14:32] <Kilos> arch is too involved to star off wioth
[14:32] <Kilos> with
[14:32] <theblazehen> yeah
[14:32] <Kilos> start
[14:32] <Kilos> whew
[14:32] <Golynx> 528MB for the arch iso hmm :/
[14:33] <theblazehen> Golynx, yep, but it's x86_64 + x86
[14:33] <theblazehen> Got my arch based thin client installed in less than 1 GB of space
[14:34] <theblazehen> But internet caps suck, I agree..
[14:34] <Golynx> theblazehen ty , but i think i will stick with xfce-desktop for now , until i got a few pc's to mess around with :)
[14:34] <theblazehen> Golynx, yeah, stick with that untill you know a little more :)
[14:36]  * Golynx is getting sucked in by the all powerful linux world lol
[14:37] <theblazehen> Golynx, good man :)
[14:46] <Kilos> wbb, gotta pinch a drive outa here
[14:50] <superfly> you can't install arch in a vm, it doesn't have any of the right drivers and it's completely useless.
[14:50] <superfly> there are better things to do with life than install arch
[14:56] <charl> hahahaha !
[14:56] <charl> this is hilarious
[15:16] <charl> wb Kilos
[15:16] <Kilos> ty charl
[15:16] <Golynx> hey charl
[15:16] <charl> hi Golynx
[15:16] <Golynx> Wb Kilos
[15:17] <Kilos> ty
[15:18] <charl> how's it going with you all
[15:18] <Kilos> charl, you clever and got good internet
[15:18] <charl> lol
[15:19] <charl> what do you need?
[15:19] <Golynx> Good and you charl
[15:19] <charl> i'm just taking a break now, i'm busy cleaning my apartment
[15:19] <charl> i'm doing well Golynx, just a bit exhausted right now :)
[15:19] <Kilos> i need the pin connections on a ecs p45t-a mobo for the front panel and on/off button
[15:19] <charl> the what?! :)
[15:20] <charl> oh a taiwanese motherboard?
[15:20] <Kilos> i hunted there by ecs site but i dont find where they so over there on the mobo is pin and 2 and you connect such and such there
[15:20] <Kilos> chinese i think
[15:21] <Kilos> i havent bothered to check the psu because i just took it out the box
[15:21] <Kilos> brandy noob
[15:22] <charl> so you need to know where to connect the power button to?
[15:22] <charl> the pins on the motherboard ...
[15:22] <Kilos> i hate these mod mobos that you push on button and mobo turns psu on
[15:22] <Golynx> Ah good charl
[15:22] <Kilos> yes please
[15:23] <charl> oh mobo = motherboard
[15:23] <charl> i'm already putting the puzzle together :)
[15:23] <Kilos> i found a row of 9 bins in bouble row but dunno which is which and what they for
[15:23] <Kilos> ya
[15:24] <Kilos> shorter to type man
[15:24] <Kilos> m/b
[15:24] <Kilos> is that better
[15:24] <charl> ok i found it
[15:24] <Kilos> i dunno what the correct abreviation is
[15:24] <charl> nah m/b looks like megabyte
[15:25] <charl> i never know it :)
[15:25] <Kilos> can you see the pins and what to connect to them
[15:25] <Golynx> How about "momb" lol
[15:25] <Kilos> i tried to find the user manual but just wasted data
[15:25] <charl> whow i hate trying to copy and paste out of a pdf document
[15:26] <Kilos> give me the link if you see it
[15:26] <Kilos> i dont mind going straight to a link
[15:26] <Golynx> lol charl, is that possible
[15:26] <Kilos> its the page after [age 100 times that wastes data
[15:27] <charl> i'll paste the part for you in a PM
[15:27] <Golynx> I have to convert the pdf to txt or html before i can copy anything
[15:28] <charl> Kilos: here's the pdf: http://eudownload.ecs.com.tw/dlfileecs/manual/mb/eng/p4/P45T_AV1/P45T-A_v2.pdf
[15:28] <charl> there is an illustration on page 30
[15:28] <charl> under the text "front panel header"
[15:28] <Kilos> ty charl
[15:28] <charl> np
[15:30] <Kilos> charl, is there a way to download that manual
[15:31] <charl> you should be able to fetch it straight with wget
[15:31] <charl> yeah it works
[15:31] <Kilos> wonderful ty will try that
[15:31] <charl> it's 1,9MB
[15:31] <Kilos> thats fine ty
[15:31] <charl> np
[15:32] <Kilos> its using 15 or 20 and getting nowhere thats frustrating
[15:33] <Kilos> wget rocks hey
[15:33] <charl> yeah
[15:33] <charl> i always use it when downloading large files
[15:33] <charl> firefox and the others suck at it and they are too slow
[15:33] <Kilos> yeah
[15:33] <charl> and then they cut off the download mid way and you have to use wget in any case
[15:33] <Kilos> i use wget especially for isos
[15:34] <Kilos> yeah with -c
[15:34] <charl> i can download files at close to 1gbps with wget without taxing the system
[15:34] <Kilos> wow
[15:34] <charl> yes i just enable -c as standard because if the download breaks off you never have worries, it restarts with the same filename
[15:35] <Kilos> i havent done it that way yet
[15:36] <Kilos> always wait to crash first
[15:37] <Golynx> There are lots of gui apps that you can set to auto resume download though.
[15:37] <Kilos> not as fast as wget
[15:37] <charl> i don't want gui apps, i try and do everything at the command line
[15:37] <Kilos> they need download managers and things
[15:38] <charl> the only two non-terminal applications i use are a web browser and vlc
[15:38] <charl> and on the occasion the gimp
[15:38] <Golynx> Oh ya linux peeps cant divorce their terminals lol
[15:39] <Kilos> lol
[15:39] <Kilos> youll get there and see the advantages at times
[15:39] <Golynx> I do everything in Opera browser, but for files bigger than 50MB i will use wget with -c
[15:41] <charl> brb
[15:43] <Kilos> hi jhb_hacker
[15:44] <Golynx> hey jhb_hacker
[15:44] <jhb_hacker> hi guys
[16:09] <charl> hi jhb_hacker
[16:09] <jhb_hacker> charl: how you?
[16:10] <charl> i'm great thanks yourself
[16:10] <jhb_hacker> not bad;
[16:11] <charl> wb somaunn
[16:11] <somaunn> hi charl
[16:11] <somaunn> hi Kilos
[16:11] <Golynx> Hey somaunn
[16:12] <somaunn> hi Golynx
[16:15] <Kilos> hi somaunn sorery i was asleep
[16:15] <Kilos> dont forget tuesday night meeting hey guys
[16:15] <Kilos> 8.30 pm right here
[16:20] <Kilos> wb jhb_hacker
[16:25] <Kilos> sorry, storm killed the power
[16:26] <somaunn> Kilos: no problem
[16:27] <somaunn> i got my calendar
[16:27] <somaunn> update
[16:27] <somaunn> updated
[16:27] <Kilos> cool
[16:29] <Golynx> From the looks of it broadband internet for all may be 20 years away
[16:29] <charl> what is defined as broadband internet
[16:29] <Kilos> eish
[16:30] <charl> that definition is constantly changing
[16:30] <charl> in 20 years time the definition will be radically different than what it is today
[16:30] <Golynx> Too much corruption in SA though, causes alot of backlogs in construction
[16:31] <Golynx> Well a good broadband speed will be able to download 1MB in less than 1 sec. For mobile networks ofcourse
[16:33] <Golynx> But ya , thats for Tuesday's discussion :)
[16:33] <Kilos> lol
[16:33] <Kilos> wont happen
[16:33] <Golynx> What wont happen
[16:33] <charl> 1MBps = 8mbps + protocol overhead
[16:34] <charl> so you are lookiong at 10mbps min
[16:34] <charl> that is very achievable with today's broadband technology
[16:34] <Kilos> best ive got is 560kB/s
[16:34] <Kilos> 1m is asking for to much
[16:35] <charl> hsdpa can do it
[16:35] <Kilos> in za?
[16:36] <Kilos> i have hsdpa and the utmc or something
[16:36] <Golynx> Hmm, if photons can achieve a speed 1000 times more than that then its possible in wireless internet
[16:36] <Kilos> normal spedd here is around 300 kB/s
[16:36] <charl> HSDPA comprises various versions with different data speeds. In 2009 the most common devices are category 6 (3.6 Mbit/s) and category 8 (7.2 Mbit/s) with retail prices around 60 euros without subscription.
[16:36] <charl> from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Speed_Downlink_Packet_Access#User_Equipment_.28UE.29_categories
[16:37] <charl> but in the table below the speeds go up to 337.5mbps
[16:37] <charl> there is also this note: The maximum data rates given in the table are physical layer data rates. Application layer data rate is approximately 85% of that, due to the inclusion of IP headers (overhead information) etc.
[16:37] <charl> note now we are talking about hsdpa, we're not even talking 4g yet
[16:38] <inetpro> charl: I would say 80% if you are lucky
[16:39] <inetpro> you can write off about 20% for IP headers and overhead
[16:40] <charl> if you are downloading a lot of data, afaik ipv6 would reduce that with larger packet sizes
[16:40] <charl> (i speak under correction)
[16:50] <Kilos> charl, the connections are maybe capable of that speed but the isp's limit one
[16:50] <Kilos> my modem shows offline now
[16:50] <Kilos> hmm>
[16:50] <Kilos> ...
[16:51] <Kilos> red light on a zte means what
[16:52] <Golynx> Is'nt it supposed to flash green when offline
[16:53] <Golynx> or are all modem lights different
[16:53] <Kilos> yay green flashing again
[16:54] <Golynx> lol cool :)
[16:54]  * Golynx sensed a glitch in the matrix
[16:54] <Kilos> solid green is offline but sees the connection
[16:55] <Kilos> slow flash is connected
[16:55] <Golynx> Mine is the other way round
[16:55] <Kilos> lol
[16:55] <charl> Kilos: yeah they always do that i think
[16:56] <Kilos> since i set it up in minicom its very stable
[17:00] <Kilos> who knows what pins on a 24 pin power cable switch on the psu
[17:05] <Kilos> hey Golynx im lost
[17:06] <Kilos> didnt have probs before but ive forgotten how to make opera open in new tabs
[17:06] <Kilos> this forward back thing is driving me nuts
[17:07] <Golynx> You mean save last session Kilos
[17:08] <Kilos> if you open 5 links from here i get one tab open there
[17:08] <Kilos> opens everything in a new tab on other drive
[17:09] <Kilos> i dunno what i mean, or i woulda sorted it
[17:09] <Golynx> What you mean by other drive ? Is it on 2 different pc's
[17:10] <Kilos> i have 3 drives in this pc, unity 64bit unity 32bit and kde each on its own drive
[17:10] <Kilos> choose on bott
[17:10] <Kilos> boot
[17:10] <Golynx> oh
[17:10] <Kilos> linux rocks
[17:11] <Kilos> when i set up the others i was a bit younger
[17:11] <Golynx> Then it may be an issue on that specific environment if its not happening on others
[17:12] <Kilos> hmm...
[17:14] <Kilos> found this for the psu
[17:14] <Kilos> http://pinouts.ru/Power/atx_v2_pinout.shtml
[17:14] <Golynx> On preferences >> Advanced >> Tabs is all the options though
[17:14] <Kilos> pin 16 to ground switches on
[17:14] <Kilos> lemme look
[17:17] <Kilos> ill need to go check them settings on another drive
[17:17] <Golynx> ok
[17:32] <Kilos> Maaz, coffee on
[17:32]  * Maaz flips the salt-timer
[17:32] <Kilos> Maaz, with cremora
[17:32] <Maaz> Ah! At last someone with taste
[17:33] <Kilos> Maaz, and milk
[17:33] <Maaz> Now you're talking
[17:33] <Kilos> Maaz, rusks please
[17:33] <Maaz> behind the calender on top of the fridge, but dont tell everyone Kilos
[17:34] <Kilos> ok
[17:35] <Kilos> Maaz, oumas
[17:35] <Maaz> Kilos: oumas are the bestest rusks
[17:35] <Kilos> what a clever bot
[17:36] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for Kilos!
[17:36] <Kilos> Maaz, thanks man
[17:36] <Maaz> Kilos It gives me great pleasure to serve a bunch of geeks :-)
[17:38] <Golynx> lol
[17:40] <Golynx> I made about 30 different chatbots, but lost them all when i burried windows
[17:40] <Golynx> Atleast there was a good crowed at the funeral
[17:41] <Kilos> go work by xethron im sure the got win pcs there
[17:41] <Kilos> dont you have it all saved on your sisters fone
[17:42] <Golynx> had to remove some data though,  was too big to fit in the memory card
[17:43] <Golynx> I'm sure Xethron wont be needing my services. He looks very skilled already
[17:46] <Kilos> he said today they are looking for a web dev
[17:47] <Golynx> Ya he asked me via pm. But must ne around Jhb area.
[17:48] <Golynx> be*
[17:48] <Kilos> yeah so move to better internet
[17:48] <Kilos> hehe
[17:48] <inetpro> Kilos: we got a very welcome 14mm to cool us down again
[17:49] <Kilos> lekker inetpro i havent checked since it stopped
[17:50] <Golynx> Right now i'm pretty useless. Pc hardware wise and internet wise.
[17:50] <Golynx> But i will get there
[17:51] <Kilos> good
[18:20] <Kilos> hehe
[18:31] <inetpro> Kilos: hehe?
[18:32] <Kilos> ek lag jy man
[18:34] <inetpro> hoekom lag jy my?
[18:36] <Kilos> sommer net
[18:38] <inetpro> ok
[18:38] <inetpro> jou beurt is jou beurt
[18:39] <Kilos> hahaha
[18:39] <inetpro> superfly: you ready for Monday's discussion?
[18:40] <Kilos> ya give us a pointer to what the idea was
[18:40] <Kilos> so we can get peeps to research it
[18:40] <inetpro>  The current state of Internet in South Africa
[18:40]  * Kilos ducks
[18:40]  * charl runs
[18:41] <Kilos> mine works kiff
[18:41] <charl> mine too :P
[18:41] <Kilos> the point inetpro
[18:41] <Kilos> ?
[18:42] <Golynx> Mine w...o...(error)...r..ks lol
[18:43] <inetpro> superfly: oops, not Monday but Tuesday
[18:46] <inetpro> Kilos: ?
[18:47] <Kilos> yessir
[18:47] <inetpro> Kilos: what you mean?
[18:47] <Kilos> i mean no good some saying its good and others saying its bad we need to find a way to improve both
[18:48] <Kilos> ai! ek sukkel met my volk partykeer
[18:49] <inetpro> are you suggesting we change the topic?
[18:49] <Kilos> no man
[18:50] <charl> that's it's bad should be an accepted fact
[18:50] <charl> what you need to ask yourself is how you are going to improve it
[18:50] <charl> lobbying government etc
[18:50] <Kilos> im hoping the fly has a brilliant plan in his noggin
[18:50] <inetpro> sure thing
[18:50] <charl> if everyone sits around and complains but nobody does anything
[18:50] <charl> then nothing will improve
[18:51] <charl> in the netherlands the internet was horrible until they took KPN out of monopoly
[18:51] <inetpro> well I guess the idea is to discuss this at our meeting
[18:51] <inetpro> and then take it from there
[18:51] <charl> then in a year or two the internet "exploded"
[18:51] <charl> yeah let's do that
[18:51] <Kilos> most peeps need pointing in a certain direction a week before the time
[18:52] <inetpro> wb somaunn
[18:52] <Kilos> wb somaunn
[18:53] <Kilos> hi captine
[18:53] <charl> hi captine
[18:53] <captine> hi kilos and all
[18:53] <charl> how's it going captine
[18:54] <captine> could be better.  not sure what i did to my hdd on laptop when trying arch linux... think MBR or something is completely broken... going to try the "boot-repair" app now
[18:54] <Kilos> ouch
[18:54] <Kilos> whats it doing?
[18:54] <captine> yip.  installs all run fine, then fail with grub
[18:55] <captine> just doing an install memory stick now and will try again
[18:55] <Kilos> you got internet so thats good
[18:55] <Kilos> there is a tool called supergrub
[18:56] <captine> yip.  am using macbook now tho to do the burns etc...  tell me, has anyone here setup a pxe server for multiple distro installs?
[18:56] <Kilos> you burn to cd and boot from it and it will boot into the os
[18:56] <somaunn> thanks inetpro
[18:56] <somaunn> thanks Kilos
[18:56] <Kilos> it can fix grub probs too at times
[18:56] <captine> was trying but struggle to get it working (am a copy paste from how to's kind of guy, and haven't found a comprehensive how to yet...
[18:56] <Kilos> but boot-repair normally sorts probs
[18:57] <captine> Kilos: I have booted into ubuntu couple times and used gparted but no luck... when i break things, i do it properly... lol
[18:57] <Kilos> lol
[18:57] <Kilos> oh you played in gparted
[18:58] <Kilos> and chose option on the left
[18:58] <Kilos> hehe
[18:58] <captine> lol
[18:58] <Kilos> dont use that ever unless the drive is empty
[18:58] <captine> strange thing is after trying suss some time back, my bios picks up opens use and ubuntu as options -- even though the entire hdd has been formatted a couple times
[18:58] <captine> my drive is empty now... lol
[18:58] <Kilos> in gparted only use the partition option
[19:01] <captine> will remember that... ;)
[19:01] <Kilos> what did you have on it that you dont wanna lose
[19:01] <captine> i don't have anything.  did a full format
[19:01] <captine> everything is backed up
[19:01] <Kilos> ah
[19:01] <captine> was trying pc-bsd
[19:01] <Kilos> so what is boot-repair gonna help
[19:02] <captine> and antegros... but didn't succeed
[19:02] <captine> not sure
[19:02] <captine> i installed ubuntu
[19:02] <captine> and everything worked except grub
[19:02] <captine> so thought boot-repair would do the final trickl
[19:02] <Kilos> it wont do anything on a formatted drive
[19:02] <Kilos> boot from cd or stick and do a clean install
[19:02] <captine> I have tried that
[19:03] <captine> even using the auto partition
[19:03] <Kilos> oh you have ubuntu installed
[19:03] <captine> grub just fails to install
[19:03] <Kilos> sounds like sick mbr
[19:03] <Kilos> or drive not happy
[19:03] <captine> yip.  tried creating mbr in gparted... no success.
[19:03] <Golynx> Is the bios ok
[19:03] <captine> lol
[19:03] <Kilos> send it ill fix it
[19:03] <captine> :)
[19:04] <captine> thanks
[19:04] <Kilos> im trying to think
[19:04] <captine> i have a spare drive to test with to see if it is the drive... just no time to do all this now.
[19:04] <Kilos> there is another tool called ubcd
[19:04] <captine> got a 4 week old in the house
[19:04] <Kilos> but also to be careful with
[19:04] <captine> think it is something with efi partitions etc.... not 100% sure
[19:04] <Kilos> congrats man
[19:05] <captine>  thnx
[19:05] <Kilos> was it an efi drive
[19:06] <captine> weird thing on the installs is it always picks up the hdd as sda2, not 1
[19:06] <Kilos> or is it mixed up between that and mbr
[19:06] <captine> which I thought was weird
[19:06] <Kilos> very weird
[19:06] <Kilos> mbr and boot sector sick
[19:06] <Kilos> oh
[19:06] <Kilos> have you got a xp cd
[19:07] <captine> nope
[19:07] <Kilos> win 98?
[19:07] <captine> brb.  just going to room with a network cable.. -- no windows cc's.  only mac and linux
[19:07] <Kilos> ok go quick
[19:08] <Kilos> if you can borrow an xp cd we can fix mbr and boot with it
[19:09] <somaunn> captine:  is your drive a GPT or or not
[19:10] <inetpro> captine: hi
[19:10] <somaunn> also try to change disk settings from AHCI to IDE if you use an UEFI boot
[19:10] <inetpro> captine: if you have a capable UEFI and LEGACY bios, put the bios in Legacy boot only or Both enabled with Legacy boot first
[19:13] <Kilos> so lekker to have others helping too
[19:13] <Kilos> yay
[19:13]  * Kilos relaxes
[19:13] <Golynx> lol
[19:14] <inetpro> ai!
[19:14] <Kilos> truth hurt hey
[19:14] <Kilos> i been struggling alone for a long time now
[19:15] <Kilos> these modern bios's mess with my head
[19:15] <inetpro> read: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UEFI
[19:16] <Kilos> did a week ago
[19:16] <Kilos> its the new bios for gpt drives
[19:16] <charl> i had this issue
[19:16] <charl> i had to disable uefi as well, 12.04 refused to boot
[19:16] <charl> but 12.10 worked perfectly
[19:16] <Kilos> yeah
[19:16] <Kilos> 12.04 dont like it
[19:17] <charl> it is on my new dell optiplex in the office
[19:17] <charl> it boots perfectly from usb but after install it refuses to boot from the HD
[19:17] <charl> and it also boots from the flash drive using uefi
[19:17] <Kilos> ya
[19:17] <Kilos> blank screen
[19:17] <charl> my old macbook pro also had uefi but there i had no problems
[19:18] <charl> strange stuff
[19:18] <Kilos> yeah sometimes it feels like we progress backwards
[19:18] <charl> uefi isn't stable yet
[19:18] <Kilos> till one gets to understand it all
[19:18] <inetpro> note: Ubuntu 32bit cannot boot in UEFI mode
[19:18] <charl> i was using the 64-bit
[19:20] <Kilos> in the bios you can disable the uefi thing
[19:20] <charl> yeah eventually i did that
[19:21] <charl> just moved to legacy boot
[19:21] <charl> a.k.a. working boot
[19:21] <Kilos> haha
[19:22] <Kilos> we need someone to work on that and sort it out so he can help us
[19:30] <Kilos> night all. sleep tight
[19:31] <Kilos> see ya all tomorrow
[19:32] <captine> inetpro: no such option.  but managed to get it installed now.  will re-join channel from ubuntu.
[19:35] <somaunn> going to sleep guys
[19:35] <somaunn> see you tomorrow


[19:37] <ahoneybun> damn mhall119 GIMP's birthday was on the 21st
[19:53]  * mhall119 was a little busy that day
[19:57] <ahoneybun> lol


[06:07] <Mirv> sitter: doko generally has asked to keep PCH enabled. anyhow, I will follow whatever Debian decides too, and I'm curious to see whether they have the same problem or somehow magically avoid it.
[06:09] <Mirv> for the moment I'm not blocked on it since we don't use qtwebkit and I made qttools ignore qtwebkit. for this week, I'd mostly just want to have a chance to see unity8 running on qt 5.4
[06:12] <sitter> mh
[06:18] <sitter> oh on that note
[06:18] <sitter> Mirv: can you please push your qttools :)
[06:24] <Mirv> sitter: hmm sure, it's the ugly hack of removing qtwebkit for now, but it works. let me add a clear note about it first.
[06:25] <Mirv> sitter: pushed.
[06:25] <sitter> thanks
[06:43] <sitter> Mirv: ah, fwiw, I think I found the cause of the broken pch http://paste.ubuntu.com/9537448/ for some reason that doesn't get reported with the 3 million arguments used in the build normally
[06:43]  * Mirv pushed some more svg, multimedia, location too
[06:44] <sitter> also for good measure I was unable to find any other build log anywhere on the internet that also used pch for Qt5WebKitWidgets, perhaps the problem is that suddenly it started to precompile for us ^^
[06:44] <sitter> Mirv: hehe, cool beans, thanks
[06:45] <Mirv> sitter: right... pch has been enabled for all but arm64 in qtbase, but I don't know the logic of it being used for the submodules. I'd assume it's enabled if it's enabled in qtbase.
[06:45] <Mirv> sitter: pch disabling for just qtwebkit shouldn't be a problem
[06:48] <sitter> considering upstream doesn't test with pch I do wonder if we really should enable it at all ^^
[06:48] <sitter> but yeah, qtbase pch would make qt_module.prf/qt_module_headers.prf force pch for all qt modules so I guess that explains it
[06:48]  * sitter slowly backs away from qtwebkit
[07:01] <sitter> kubotu: newversion phonon 4.8.3
[07:01] <kubotu> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1402947
[07:01] <sitter> kubotu: newversion phonon-backend-vlc 0.8.2
[07:01] <kubotu> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1402948
[07:02] <sitter> kubotu: newversion phonon-backend-gstreamer 4.8.1
[07:02] <kubotu> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1402949
[07:02] <sitter> Riddell, yofel, shadeslayer ^
[07:02] <sitter> shadeslayer: libphonon only contains debian relevant stuff so you can slap sune with the commits
[07:42] <soee> good morning
[08:36] <sitter> wgrant: can I please get a bump to 5g for https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ci/+archive/ubuntu/stage/+packages
[08:36] <wgrant> sitter: Done.
[08:36] <sitter> thank you :)
[08:37] <sitter> Mirv: qtsvg ... Missing build dependencies: libqt5opengl5-dev (>= 5.4.0+dfsg~) <- wouldn't >=5.4.0 be more appropriate?
[08:38] <Mirv> sitter: oh, I committed it like that since I'm pulling Debian's first qtbase upload with +dfsg in right now..
[08:39] <Mirv> I'd have done the prune-nonfree myself but I wouldn't have gotten bit-for-bit identical tarball
[08:39] <sitter> Mirv: even so, the dfsgness of the source should have no impact on the compat, should it?
[08:40] <Mirv> sitter: it shouldn't but again Debian has the +dfsg dependencies in qtsvg, and eventually I will anyway just sync qtsvg from Debian instead of having a separate packaging for it in Ubuntu
[08:40] <Mirv> but if it helps your work, I can commit the +dfsg removal to the Ubuntu branch for now
[08:41] <Mirv> (pushed)
[08:42] <sitter> thx
[08:43] <sitter> Riddell, shadeslayer: someone should find an alitoh sysadmin and have them look into the IO blockage
[08:52] <lordievader> Good morning
[09:19] <bukai> Riddell: ping ping!
[09:21] <sitter> uh
[09:21] <sitter> Mirv: can you push qtxmlpatterns as well please :)
[09:22] <Riddell> hi bukai
[09:23] <bukai> Riddell: I have sorted out all the problems that were there before, except the design of the news page, It currently looks like ->http://wstaw.org/w/35YQ/ I am unable to modify it further. Any idea how to do it?
[09:24] <Riddell> bukai: looks find like that, what's wrong with it?
[09:27] <bukai_> Riddell: I mean do I need to install wp on the server?
[09:27] <Riddell> sitter: closing your phonon bugs, those were in last week
[09:27] <Riddell> bukai_: yeah i guess so
[09:28] <bukai_> Riddell: and what do i do with the news page?
[09:28] <Riddell> bukai_: how do you mean?
[09:29] <sitter> huh :O
[09:29] <sitter> Riddell: uscan'd?
[09:29] <sitter> cool, also very scary considering I forgot to announce the release last week ^^
[09:29] <Riddell> that's how good we are
[09:29] <Riddell> actually a code-in student did it
[09:30] <bukai_> Riddell: the design of the news post page is currently ->http://wstaw.org/w/35YQ/ how do I improve it?
[09:31] <bukai_> soee: ping
[09:32] <Riddell> bukai_: looks fine to me, most people won't look at the news page they'll look at the feed on the front page
[09:33] <sitter> Mirv: patch disabling pch on affected architectures attached to bug 1395661
[09:33] <bukai_> Riddell: ok, great. Btw are there any more things I need to implement?
[09:33] <soee> hey bukai_
[09:35] <Riddell> bukai_: getting wordpress up and running and getting it to be a reasonable load on the server for one :)
[09:38] <bukai> Riddell: test.kubuntu.co.uk is also a wp theme right? so can i use the same database and just activate my theme?
[09:38] <Riddell> bukai: yes I think so
[09:38] <sitter> ^ needs performance and load profiling
[09:38] <Tm_T> Riddell: factoid updated
[09:38] <bukai> ovidiu-florin: ping
[09:39] <bukai> Riddell: ok, thanks.
[09:39] <Mirv> sitter: pushed qtxmlpatterns, and big thanks for the webkit patch! I was trying to search for such a parameter.
[09:43] <Mirv> I'll update webkit, tools branches as I get the fix verified
[09:45] <Riddell> bukai: bcooksley has some ideas on how to help performance
[09:45] <Riddell> or it can just be hosted on aws
[09:46] <bukai> Riddell: thats great so how do I improve the performance?
[09:46] <sitter> Riddell: that sounds expensive
[09:47] <bukai> Riddell: we do not need aws actually
[09:47] <sitter> what would be an option is putting static assets (i.e. images and css) on cloudfront or an s3 bucket
[09:48] <sitter> that should reduce load already quite a bit
[09:48] <sitter> question then is just how many concurrent connections apache is willing and able to take
[09:48] <sitter> hence the profiling need
[09:49] <sitter> without knowing what to expect it's hard to say how to make it not fall over on release days ^^
[09:50] <bukai> sitter: we can easily know the load on release days
[09:51] <sitter> bukai: you'd probably have to ask canonical sysadmins what the current load peaks on kubuntu.org are
[09:52] <bukai> no I have added google analytics to it. So Riddell can tell us the exact load
[09:52] <bukai> sitter: ^^
[09:53] <sitter> bukai: that would mean 15.04 needs to release with the old site though
[09:54] <sitter> unless you added it before the 14.10 release that is ^^
[09:55] <bukai> sitter: I have finished with the site I just need to put it on the server
[09:55] <Riddell> bukai: dunno ask bcooksley (new zealand timezone)
[09:55] <sitter> yeah, but to make sure that the new server can handle the load we need to have metrics from previous releases
[09:56] <bukai> Riddell: do you remember the analytics config?
[09:59] <sitter> seems to me the existing kubuntu.org uses analytics as well, is that ours or canonical's?
[10:00] <sitter> Riddell: ^
[10:03] <Riddell> sitter: it's ours
[10:03] <sitter> Riddell: has that been there before 14.10 release?
[10:06] <bukai> Riddell: on which server is the kubuntu.org hosted?
[10:15] <Riddell> bukai: a canonical server to which we don't have access
[10:15] <Riddell> sitter: about 24 hours before yes
[10:15] <sitter> Riddell: please be adding me to the analytics
[10:41] <sitter> average load time of a page 2.5 to 5 seconds
[10:41] <sitter> oh my
[10:47] <soee> woot woot
[10:47] <soee> what page ?
[10:48] <sitter> kubuntu.org average
[10:49] <sitter> mh, bukai gone
[10:55] <soee> wrr there is ~7 separate css files, same with JS, concatenate them, minify, move JS to footer, compress code - be sure gzip is used
[10:55] <soee> also images can be optimized be stripping not needed data
[10:56] <sitter> sooo
[11:11] <sitter> peak on release day was 1245 (hourly value), so including a random number of people that would have analytics/js deactivated a worst case stress test would be 13k concurrent acceses
[11:12] <sitter> alternativley for more realistic stress testing ... average pages per session that day were 2.6, so I'd ceil that again to be on the save side
[11:14] <sitter> average session time was 2:16 minutes, so ideally one would distribute 1.3k sessions where each session loads 3 pages over the course of 2:16 minutes possibly randomized a la rand() %3/(2+(16/60%60)) or some such nonesense
[11:15] <sitter> depending on how one were to conduct the stress test one could possibly also directly mimic behavior in terms of which pageas are fetched (e.g. 31% of sessions would start on / and of those 22% would leave again...)
[11:15] <sitter> bukai, Riddell ^
[11:16] <sitter> Riddell: also FWIW, 2 minutes session time sounds a bit disappointing, I think the release announcements might not have been snazzy enough
[11:18] <Pali> Riddell: ping, have you looked at my ppa?
[11:21] <Riddell> Pali: no sorry was hoping to have a helper in to do that, got vivid alpha 1 and plasma to do then I hoep to get onto it
[11:48] <Riddell> !testers | alpha 1 candidates (I've no idea if todays image even boots)
[11:49] <Riddell> Tm_T: sgclark is not gclark :) ↑
[11:49] <soee> well system works for me superb :) didn't try isos though
[11:50] <Riddell> isos is what needs testing
[11:50] <soee> Riddell: later at home, to much work atm :/
[11:53] <bukai> Riddell: Can you give me ovidiu-florin email id?
[11:53] <Riddell> Ovidiu-Florin Bogdan <ovidiu.b13@ gmail.com>
[11:53] <bukai> Riddell: thanks
[11:53] <Riddell> bukai: https://paste.kde.org/pzc2sspd2
[11:53] <Riddell> what sitter said while you were away
[11:56] <bukai> Riddell: I have seen it.
[11:58] <bukai> Riddell: but how do we change i.e. improve that??
[11:58] <Tm_T> Riddell: aah copy paste error, I'll fix that
[11:58] <Tm_T> Riddell: sorry
[11:59] <Tm_T> Riddell: fixed
[12:03] <Riddell> thanks Tm_T :)
[12:13] <bukai> Riddell: ping
[12:19] <Riddell> hi bukai
[12:21] <bukai> Riddell: if the load time of the current site is long the new will be longer as it has more images and stuff compared to the old 1
[12:21] <bukai> how do we resolve that?
[12:22] <sitter> the problem most likely is badly compressed pngs and a general overuse of pngs
[12:22] <Riddell> bukai: I'd worry about settings it up before premature optimisation
[12:22] <sitter> I wouldn't worry to much about this for now
[12:23] <Riddell> sitter: oh it's tuesday, can I make plasma depend on qt 5.4 yet?
[12:23] <sitter> nope
[12:23] <Riddell> aww
[12:23] <bukai> ok , I am working on the setup part !
[12:23] <sitter> almost there though my magic grep says
[12:24] <shadeslayer> whats magical about your grep
[12:24] <sitter> it is smarter than me, must be magic
[12:49] <Riddell> frameworks all compiled in archive but arm and powerpc holding it up as usual
[13:00] <bukai> Riddell: I have made changes to a blank html5 theme and created several page. Will the pages be an integral part of the modified theme?
[13:06] <Riddell> bukai: I'm not sure what that means
[13:08] <bukai> Riddell: No problem I have figured it out! :)
[13:12] <sitter> chrome tab movement is totally not fluxbox compatible :@
[13:29] <shadeslayer> sitter: fluxbox? :O
[13:30] <sitter> it's the supremest box
[13:30] <shadeslayer> :O
[13:30] <mamarley> But kwin!
[13:30] <sitter> is not a box
[13:31] <sitter> fatal flaw right there
[13:35] <shadeslayer> true enough ^^
[13:36] <mamarley> mv /usr/bin/kwin /usr/bin/kwin-box
[13:42] <Mirv> sitter: oh... one missing, thanks!
[14:18] <mparillo> Alpha 1 Candidate is not here: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/328/builds Is it just the regular daily? And does it ship 5.1.2 which is supposed to resolve https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340966
[14:20] <Riddell> mparillo: just set up http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/328/builds
[14:20] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[14:20] <Riddell> mparillo: alas most of plasma 5.1.2 is still building
[14:20] <Riddell> mparillo: but testing welcomed
[14:21] <sgclark> is there a amd64 build? I need to do a reinstall anyway..
[14:22] <soee> there should be i installed it liek 2 days ago
[14:22] <soee> from staging then i think
[14:22] <mparillo> I will look again. Alas, I without the fix promised in 5.1.2, I can pretty much only test a clean install. Small (virtual) screen is a big handicap.
[14:23] <Riddell> sgclark: yep ↑
[14:23] <sgclark> cool, backup up all my stuff first :)
[14:26] <sitter> qt54 build stack almost staged \o/
[14:35] <Riddell> since I started using git all my svn commands get run with -a and then I have to run them again without
[14:55] <Riddell> ScottK: bug 1400730 needs some ~ubuntu-sru love
[15:08] <sitter> Mirv: it appears qtscript is broken again https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ci/+archive/ubuntu/stage/+build/6653113
[15:08]  * sitter heading out for tea
[15:27]  * shadeslayer ponders about exporting QT_SELECT=5 via pkg-kde-tools
[15:59] <Riddell> ooh live image is working :)
[16:34] <Riddell> only armhf to go for kf5!
[16:59] <kranzer> Riddell: hello, are you here?
[17:04] <Riddell> hi kranzer
[17:08] <kranzer> Riddell: when will new tasks be published?
[17:09] <Riddell> dunno, I felt a bit overloaded with all the ones last week
[17:09] <Riddell> and I don't have any immediate ideas
[17:09] <Riddell> oh you could package calligra 2.9 beta
[17:09] <Riddell> but as I say I don't have much energy to mentor it
[17:10] <Riddell> you could test kubuntu alpha 1 candidates
[17:10] <Riddell> that would be cool
[17:10] <kranzer> Riddell: will it be as a task?
[17:11] <Riddell> yep, I can add that now
[17:11] <kranzer> ri
[17:11] <Riddell> iso testing here if you want to start http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/328/builds
[17:11] <kranzer> Riddell: I'm not able right now
[17:11] <kranzer> Riddell: I have a task
[17:14] <kranzer> Riddell: couldn't you tell me how I can find Nicolas Brisset?
[17:14] <Riddell> never heard of him
[17:15] <kranzer> Riddell: clear(
[17:15] <Riddell> nicolas.brisset@ free.fr
[17:15] <Riddell> says identity.kde.org
[17:16] <kranzer> Riddell: I don't know the channel(
[17:17] <Riddell> kranzer: for what?
[17:17] <kranzer> Riddell: task
[17:17] <Riddell> kranzer: what task?
[17:17] <kranzer> Riddell: http://www.google-melange.com/gci/task/view/google/gci2014/5549624853004288
[17:19] <Riddell> kranzer: it probably has no irc channel, the website points to a mailing list https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kst
[17:20] <kranzer> Riddell: oh, then could you publish that task?
[17:20] <Riddell> kranzer: the alpha testing one? I can ask an admin to do it
[17:21] <kranzer> Riddell: please, ask him)
[17:21] <Riddell> kranzer: asked, but go ahead and start
[17:21] <Riddell> worst case someone else claims it and we get two testers, no bad thing :)
[17:22] <kranzer> Riddell: it isn't published yet
[17:23] <Riddell> kranzer: right, I can't publish it, we'll need to wait for an admin to do that, but you can go ahead and start the task
[17:24] <kranzer> Riddell: please, give me links)
[17:25] <Riddell> kranzer: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/328/builds
[17:25] <Riddell> download iso images
[17:25] <Riddell> install virtualbox if that's what you want to use
[17:25] <Riddell> or get a usb key if you want to use real hardware
[17:26] <Riddell> and install, using different languages and the different install methods the iso.qa site asks for
[17:26] <kranzer> Riddell: ohhh, I can't install now
[17:27] <Riddell> kranzer: why not?
[17:27] <kranzer> I have to use different computers(
[17:27] <Riddell> you can use virtualbox or another virtual machine
[17:29] <kranzer> Riddell: virtual machines are very annoying and my computer starts lagging while using them
[17:29] <yofel> too much resources allocated to the VM?
[17:30] <bukai> Riddell: I spoke to ovidiu-florin , setting up will not be a problem as he has already installed wp on the server for his site!
[17:30] <yofel> hm? test.kubuntu.co.uk is a wp install in his dir, yes...
[17:32] <bukai> yofel: yes! can I create another user or only he can do it?
[17:33] <Riddell> anyone can
[17:33] <Riddell> bukai: what do you need?
[17:34] <bukai> I want to import my database and activate the kubuntu theme
[17:34] <yofel> bukai: user in wp or on the server?
[17:34] <yofel> wp
[17:35] <bukai> yofel: wp
[17:36] <Riddell> bukai: why not get your own install of wordpress?
[17:38] <bukai> Riddell: wont it burden the server if wordpress is installed twice?
[17:38] <yofel> well, the other one already has the posts, so just adding the theme there would be easiest
[17:38] <yofel> bukai: hardly if you don't access it
[17:40] <bukai> yofel: the newone also has all the posts!
[17:40] <bukai> just adding the theme wont be enough
[17:40] <bukai> database has to be imported
[17:41] <yofel> well yeah, I just said that the other one already has those
[17:41] <yofel> but adding a bunch of files and a mysql DB is hardly a burden on the server if nobody accesses the instance
[17:42] <Riddell> bukai: I set up http://test2.kubuntu.co.uk/
[17:42] <Riddell> in your home directory
[17:42] <Riddell> you can install wordpress there if you like
[17:44] <bukai> Riddell: thanks, I will install wordpress there only!
[17:45] <bukai> Riddell: how do I import my database there?
[17:46] <Riddell> bukai: do you want a new mysql database?
[17:46] <bukai> yes
[17:47] <Riddell> bukai: do you know how to set up a new mysql database and mysql user?
[17:48] <bukai> no that I know , I want to know how to import an existing database
[17:57] <bukai> Riddell: Sorry I got disconnected , so I am not sure if you told me to how to import the database
[18:00] <Riddell> bukai: I set up a new databae
[18:00] <Riddell> dunno what you want to import or how to do it
[18:14] <bukau> Riddell: I cant find any database called test2, there is one called test
[18:15] <Riddell> bukau: works for me, what are you doing?
[18:16] <bukau> Riddell: when you do show databases how many database are there?
[18:17] <Riddell> bukau: three
[18:17] <Riddell> https://paste.kde.org/pnkr1jhfl
[18:26]  * yofel installs some updates on that server. It's been a while since someone did that...
[18:39]  * Riddell out
[19:45] <soee> heyho
[19:56] <Riddell> hi soee are you able to do any testing this evening?
[20:08] <yofel> hm, we don't want to have a single-desktop pager in the taskbar, do we?
[20:09] <soee> Riddell: can you give me link to iso ?
[20:09] <yofel> at least not while it's useless, setting it to show desktop on click would be a replacement to the missing show desktop widget
[20:09] <yofel> soee: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/328/builds
[20:10] <soee> im not usre why but konversation always disables me notification for this channel
[20:12] <soee> so slow downloading :/
[20:13] <soee> ok with kget it seems faster
[20:22] <yofel> hm, we should kill kubuntu-settings-active/-netbook for p5
[20:25] <Riddell> yofel++
[20:32] <yofel> on the positive side, upgrading works pretty well
[20:34] <Riddell> oh really? that's great
[20:34] <Riddell> I wonder if we should care about utopic plasma 5 users for upgrades
[20:34] <Riddell> I always said we wouldn't
[20:35] <yofel> I didn't test that... can do a run later
[20:36] <Riddell> I'm worried I've screwed up khelpcenter
[20:36] <Riddell> but uploaded kde-runtime with khelpcenter (not khelpcenter4) 14.12.0
[20:36] <Riddell> I did delete it from -proposed but I fear the danger is done
[20:37] <Riddell> wgrant: do you know if there's a way out of that?
[20:37] <macstar> anyone knows when the kde 4.14.3 will make it into the kubuntu-updates or kubuntu-backports ppa?
[20:37] <yofel> Riddell: I see 4.11.97 khelpcenter in proposed
[20:37] <yofel> cache update...
[20:37] <yofel> *14.11.97
[20:39] <yofel> hm, still there
[20:39] <Riddell> maybe I failed to delete something
[20:40] <Riddell> don't have my laptop here to check
[20:40] <yofel>  khelpcenter | 4:5.1.2-0ubuntu1    | vivid-proposed/universe | source
[20:40] <yofel>  khelpcenter | 4:14.11.97-0ubuntu1 | vivid-proposed/universe | amd64, arm64, armhf, i386, powerpc, ppc64el
[20:41] <Riddell> hmm I thought I'd deleted the binaries
[20:52] <yofel> macstar: for which release?
[20:52] <macstar> yofel 14.04
[20:55] <yofel> hm, that seems to ended up in some black hole with all the releases lately :/
[20:55] <yofel> *have ended
[20:56] <yofel> macstar: can't say when really, as soon as someone has time for it
[20:56] <macstar> yofel no hurry mate ;) just wanted to be sure it will still come :P
[20:59] <soee> do you also have this in VB when trying to boot image http://wstaw.org/m/2014/12/16/kubuntu-14.10-plasma6-about.png ?
[21:09] <soee> cant boot the iso on my VM, have this video problem each time
[21:11] <soee> ok i switched off both options in Acceleration tab, now it works
[21:15] <kfunk> another plasma 5 question: does krunner work fine for you? it's flickering heavily over here, like turning completely black after each key stroke (this has been the case all the time for me)
[21:17] <soee> kfunk: works pretty nice for me for a long time
[21:17] <kfunk> good to know, so it's really just me, probably NVidia related again :/
[21:18] <soee> im on nvidia to :)
[21:18] <soee> optimus tech, nvidia profile on
[21:18] <kfunk> soee: hm, question: do you have desktop effects enabled? i.e. running in composite mode?
[21:19] <soee> kfunk: yes
[21:19] <kfunk> could you try turning them off and check again?
[21:19] <kfunk> shift+alt+f12
[21:19] <soee> same
[21:19] <soee> works fine
[21:19] <yofel> *krunner* works fine, but the plasma popups when hovering over the panel flicker for me as well when they fade
[21:20] <kfunk> yeah, that looks odd here as well
[21:20] <kfunk> funny thing is, with compositing enabled, it gets a lot *better*
[21:20] <soee> im on propriety drivers 343 but 346 also worked well
[21:21] <kfunk> no flickering anymore both for the panel and for krunner
[21:29] <soee> woho sddm works in VM -.-
[21:32] <soee> im not sue if its because small VM window but when i open menu (kicker or how it is called) i see only favourites no any tabs to switch
[21:32] <kranzer> Riddell: hi
[21:33] <kranzer> Riddell: I've just claimed that task
[21:33] <kranzer> Riddell: what VM can I use?
[21:34] <yofel> Virtualbox or KVM is what you'll want to use usually
[21:34] <kranzer> yofel: Can I do it from Windows?
[21:34] <yofel> Virtualbox runs on Win too, yeah
[21:35] <kranzer> yofel: cause my ubuntu is a bit laggy
[21:36] <yofel> not sure why it would do that... but sure
[21:53] <shadeslayer> sitter: do you really need include /usr/share/pkg-kde-tools/qt-kde-team/3/debian-qt-kde.mk for konversation?
[21:54] <shadeslayer> or will the kf5 helper be enough?
[21:59] <wgrant> Riddell: You've got a bad binary version? We can make versions go backwards in some circumstances when there's no other reasonable option.
[22:13] <soee> Riddell: i can do more test tomorrow, today i have to go sleep soon
[22:13] <soee> *tests
[22:38] <debfx> sooo when can I expect a kubuntu spin with trinity? :P
[22:41] <yofel> uh, they have their own images, so that's already there? ^^
[22:42] <debfx> if they load as fast as their screenshots it'll take years to download
[22:42] <yofel> heh, true
[22:43] <yofel> so, a plain utopic+next upgrade to vivid works fine so we should be good on that side
[22:43] <yofel> even has the correct default web browser, unlike the main upgrade
[22:43] <valorie> cool!
[22:43] <valorie> I might do this after xmas then
[22:44] <valorie> too busy atm with gci and such
[22:48] <debfx> wow, they even have their own launchpad instance


 and...... KDE broke their phabricator  … https://i.imgur.com/DpfMAJX.png
[00:14] <valorie> it is mid-upgrade I guess
[00:14] <valorie> someone else reported the identical error message a bit ago
 we now have no admin on this TG group or -devel one :(
 oh. blue star is creator?
 Yea
 for some reason I thought admin and mod were different
 Nope
 Too many chat platforms to 100% keep track!
 @Valoriez is an admin
[03:02] <valorie> thank you
 iso built today
 https://kdedigest.blogspot.co.uk/2018/03/checking-in-with-kubuntu-18-04-bionic-beaver-daily-build-here-are-some-thoughts.html
[11:06] <mparillo> "If Kubuntu came with a USB creation tool for making a bootable USB image, I missed it" It is called dd
[13:04] <tsimonq2> pffffft
[13:04] <tsimonq2> People need GUIs, dawg.
[13:04] <tsimonq2> How else are they going to learn CLI is more efficient, if they have nothing to compare it to? XD
[14:24] <mparillo> I agree. I was VERY careful the first time I used dd, but unetbootin basically stopped working for me a couple of years ago. But, I suppose IRC could not convey that I was mostly joking.
[20:31] <valorie> usb-creator isn't working for other people?
[20:31] <valorie> works fine for me....
[20:43] <valorie> I commented on the blog


[05:05]  * nlsthzn waves
[06:20] <roryy> morning
[06:51] <roryy> eh.  is it just me, or is grub2 config hard?
[07:27] <nlsthzn> roryy: Not sure, never done it before... but AFAIK it is still striaght forward enough... (but like I said, I don't really know :p)
[07:28] <roryy> ag, it wasn't too bad
[07:28] <roryy> i didn't know where to look for what menu entry was what
[07:28] <roryy> it's in /boot/grub/grub.cfg
[07:29] <roryy> however, there are about 100 files there
[07:30] <nlsthzn> Oh cool... glad you got it sorted :)
[09:14] <n8wulf> good morning to you all from the Coldest palce in South Africa
[09:14] <n8wulf> *place
[09:16] <nlsthzn> n8wulf: Good afternoon from some place much much mucy warmer...
[09:19] <n8wulf> jealous
[09:19] <n8wulf> where you from then?
[09:21] <nlsthzn> n8wulf: Not really jealous... and where I am from isn't the question... where am I now is... hello from the sunny UAE ;)
[09:27] <Kilos> morning superfly and others
[09:27] <Kilos> Maaz, coffee on
[09:27]  * Maaz washes some mugs
[09:28] <n8wulf> good morning
[09:28] <Kilos> whats news on the mb superfly
[09:28] <Kilos> lo n8wulf
[09:28] <n8wulf> UAE is the choice for being warm today
[09:28] <Kilos> yip definitely.
[09:29] <n8wulf> Vanderbijlpark is not though... we had the coldest Low in the whole of SA
[09:29] <n8wulf> any of you play Torchlight?
[09:29] <Kilos> yeah the whole highveld kinda suckin lately
[09:31] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for Kilos!
[09:32] <Kilos> Maaz, ty
[09:32] <Maaz> Enjoy Kilos
[09:45] <nuvolari> o/ morning everyone
[09:45] <Maaz> nuvolari: By the way, Kilos on freenode told me "tell nuvolari please try get the vodacom CEO's email address from that vodacom111 on twitter for me.


[13:36] <asac> crimsun: so you have any instructions what I should ask when I get bugs like: bug 279346
[13:36] <asac> in intrepid?
[13:36] <asac> e.g. what debugging informationn do you want to get collected up front?
[13:37] <asac> i regular see such bugs, but have no idea what to ask for :)
[14:24] <fta> hi
[14:27] <asac> hi fta
[14:27] <asac> i made the 17k ;)
[14:27] <asac> bug karma
[14:28] <fta> :)
[14:36] <sebner> asac: installing lame hardy version also didn't fix it :\ , but /me already prepared a SRU for another package today ^^
[17:04] <fta> mozilla bug 448680
[17:06] <fta> crimsun, sound is broken once again in ff3.1, i get 1 sec of sound then silence, yet the video continues
[17:06] <fta> crimsun, playing http://www.double.co.nz/video_test/test1.html
[17:08] <fta> mozilla Bug 461344
[17:12] <fta> asac, my total is still below 17k :P
[17:16] <asac> fta: yeah. but srsly i did about 40h bug triaging in the last 58h or so ;)
[17:17] <asac> and probably gained at max 1k for that really heroish work
[17:17] <asac> if not only 600K
[17:17] <asac> err 600
[17:17] <fta> complain to lp guys
[17:17] <fta> my definition of karma is different from theirs
[17:18] <fta> a karma should not decrease after 6 months if you continue to work at the same pace
[17:19] <fta> basically, our drops are the reflection of our past activities, this is non sense
[17:20] <asac> yeah. ... its more like a trailing average
[17:20] <fta> karma should only decrease if you're doing nothing, not if you worked harder in the past
[17:21] <asac> welll ... you could have a long term average (which probably is more what you have now)
[17:21] <asac> and a "current" pace indicator
[17:22] <asac> the current approach is about "defeating" karma you earned in the past and if you are brave even building on top
[17:22] <fta> well, today, if you earn 10 points for something, in 6 months from now, it will be divided by 10, then expire
[17:23] <asac> fta: well but think that you do a bunch of work 6 month ago ... and then you only do a bit work
[17:23] <asac> karma should then decrease right?
[17:24] <asac> if you never decrease as long as some work is happening you can easily keep your karma and rest forever ;)
[17:24] <fta> yes but not proportionally to what you've gained
[17:24] <asac> yeah. its difficult ;)
[17:25] <fta> do a wonderful job for zillions of stuff, then stop for a year, you're back to zero, same as someone doing nothing
[17:26] <asac> yeah
[17:26] <fta> yet, i feel your karma should be higher
[17:26] <asac> i think it shouldnt be that bad
[17:26] <asac> i mean ... the decreaes should be slower than the increase
[17:26] <asac> but i think that was in the past
[17:26] <fta> indeed
[17:27] <asac> and people like seb and pitti had karma more than a million
[17:27] <asac> which was perceived as demotivating for people that cannot spend that much time
[17:27] <fta> true
[17:27] <asac> so current approach gives more incentive to short term contributors
[17:27] <asac> than long term
[17:27] <asac> e.g. if you start it goes up quick
[17:27] <asac> afterwards it fighting against decay ;)
[17:29] <Nafallo> asac: the main Swedish translator was number one, since all his work got committed via tarballs ;-)
[17:32] <asac> heh
[17:32] <asac> but i think that rosetta isnt that fruitful anymore
[17:32] <sebner> asac: ripping is working again (you have to activate "Create Wave Header" in the config. but the result is only noise :(
[17:33] <asac> good
[17:33] <asac> most likely a compression thing then
[17:33] <sebner> asac: apachelogger told me that something inside k3b responsible for that is pretty b0rken ^^  damn :(
[17:37] <asac> k
[17:46] <asac> fta: is tbird 3 from your archive usable for reading imap stuff?
[17:47] <asac> damn ... archive.u.c is still completely utilized
[17:47] <asac> hmm 70k now
[17:47] <asac> thats more or less ok
[17:47] <Nafallo> really? :-P
[17:47] <asac> at least to not fall asleep before it finishes ;)
[17:48] <asac> Nafallo: well better than the 980B/s i had in the beginning
[17:48] <Nafallo> I got like my 4Mbps before...
[17:48] <asac> hmm
[17:48] <fta> asac, try it
[17:48] <asac> Nafallo: so you say its on my side or you are directly in the center?
[17:49] <asac> fta: Need to get 12.1MB of archives.
[17:49] <asac> After this operation, 36.9MB of additional disk space will be used.
[17:49] <asac> WARNING: The following packages cannot be authenticated! thunderbird-3.0
[17:49] <Nafallo> asac: hehe. not on the switch now, no. from home.
[17:49] <asac> Install these packages without verification [y/N]? y
[17:49] <asac> Get:1 http://ppa.launchpad.net intrepid/main thunderbird-3.0 3.0~b1~hg20081031r785+nobinonly-0ubuntu1~fta2 [12.1MB]
[17:49] <asac> Nafallo: so its my sucky provider again
[17:49] <asac> but i think i found a new provider that provides cable stuff here
[17:50] <Nafallo> 9 hops to the archive.... SRSLY!
[17:50] <asac> well it wasnt possible before in my particular hous ;)
[17:50] <fta> still slow for me too Fetched 17.8MB in 35s (506kB/s)
[17:50] <asac> fta: well 500K is still ok
[17:50]  * Nafallo turns on name resolution
[17:50] <asac> i usually have ~1000K
[17:50] <Nafallo> baah. Level3. ✁☹
[17:50] <asac> fta: does tbird 3 do the same profile wisdom we do for other previews?
[17:51] <asac> or should i backup my profile?
[17:51] <Nafallo> lol. drescher :-)
[17:51] <fta> it's a clone
[17:51] <Nafallo> nice
[17:51] <asac> fta: well. so it creates a copy?
[17:51] <fta> yes
[17:51] <asac> ok ... just starting then
[17:51] <asac> "Starting Schredder"
[17:52] <fta> damn, i broke xul
[17:53] <asac> fta: what can i do with the tab?
[17:54] <fta> open more ? :)
[17:55] <fta> why is my prerm thing not ok...
[17:58] <asac> fta: how to open more tabs?
[17:59] <asac> ok cool
[17:59] <asac> i think i can use shredder for bug stuff now
[17:59] <asac> only feature i am missing is to show a full threawd inline
[17:59] <asac> e.g. click on one threawd element and get all messages displayed in message view
[18:00] <fta> yep
[18:00] <fta> is prerm called after install ??
[18:01] <asac> fta: which prerm?
[18:01] <fta> generally speaking
[18:01] <asac> i think in some situation prerm is called
[18:01] <asac> let me think ;)
[18:02] <fta> i thought prem was called against the old version during upgrades, before new files are installed
[18:02] <asac> fta: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-maintainerscripts.html 6.5
[18:03] <asac> in general yes. but in error cases this can become tricky i think
[18:03] <asac> e.g. see 6.6
[18:03] <asac> i think prerm is unlikely to be called after install
[18:04] <fta> then there's a bug
[18:04] <asac> if you have a simple test case let me know ;)
[18:04] <fta> xulrunner-1.9.1.prerm:
[18:04] <fta> if [ "$1" = "remove" ] || [ "$1" = upgrade ]; then
[18:04] <fta>         rm -f /etc/gre.d/1.9.1b2pre.system.conf
[18:04] <fta> fi
[18:05] <asac> fta: we shouldnt do that
[18:05] <asac> we should use the configure status
[18:05] <fta> i upgrade a b2pre to another b2pre, the file is gone
[18:05] <asac> and only remove those that are obsolete and dont have a md5sum mismatch
[18:05] <asac> fta: well if you remove it that way, dpkg will think the user removed it
[18:05] <asac> and will hold back the "new" file
[18:05] <fta> oh
[18:06] <asac> fta: look at dpkg --status xulrunner-1.9.1
[18:06] <asac> the conffile should be modified by user there
[18:07] <asac> fta: i think what we have to do is in postinst
[18:07] <asac> and there we have to check the status and remove all Obsolete configs
[18:07] <asac> that are not modified
[18:07] <asac> everything else will be handled by dpkg
[18:08] <fta> currently, it's not; i have zillions of files in /etc/gre.d/
[18:08] <asac> fta: there is a good wiki page in debian on that
[18:08] <asac> fta: yes i know
[18:08] <asac> thats on my list
[18:08] <asac> if you want to fix it, parse the status and check md5sums in postinst for Obsolete config files
[18:08] <asac> and remove them if they are not modified
[18:10] <asac> james_w: where is that debian wiki page for config file handling in maintainer script again?
[18:10] <asac> james_w: nevermind have it
[18:10] <asac> fta: http://wiki.debian.org/DpkgConffileHandling
[18:10] <asac> thats the basic approach
[18:10] <fta> ok, i'll have a look
[18:10] <asac> what we should do is always check all xulrunner-1.9.1 and xulrunner-1.9 conffiles that way
[18:10] <asac> and remove them with that pattern
[18:10] <asac> fta: e.g. copy rm_conffile from there
[18:10] <asac> and use that
[18:12] <asac> fta: cool.
[18:12] <asac> fta: we also want those on the 1.9 branches
[18:12] <asac> in case you are at it ;)
[18:12] <asac> but probably not in stable branches
[18:12] <asac> otoh ;)
[18:20] <asac> fta: you think its impossible to build dom-inspector for tbird?
[18:20] <asac> i mean as a -dom-inspector package?
[18:20] <asac> i think i dumped that at some point during 2.0
[18:20] <asac> as it was broken since late 1.5
[18:21] <asac> but now that i use shredder for bugs i would like to add some features and DOM inspector would help ;)
[18:21] <fta> the xul one should work
[18:21] <asac> hmm
[18:21] <fta> providing maxversion is fine
[18:21] <asac> fta: do we ship that with targetapplication<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[18:21] <asac> fta: we should fix that. instead of adding all the targetapps just add that
[18:22] <fta> oh, i didn't add the xuladdon path
[18:23] <fta> let me fix xul 1st
[18:23] <asac> fta: ok works fine
[18:23] <asac> fta: while you are at it :) ... replace the ffox targetapplication with<EMAIL_ADDRESS>and min 1.9.1a1 and max 1.9.1.*
[18:23] <asac> or
[18:24] <asac> <IP_ADDRESS>a1 ... not sure
[18:24] <asac> fta: until we use system xul we could then ship a tbird-dom-inspector package that just adds a link
[18:25] <asac> fta: do we have thunderbird-addons too?
[18:25] <asac> fta: hmm. we should do that at least i guess
[18:29] <asac> fta: hmm gnome-support isnt working?
[18:29] <asac> it doesnt honour my gnome preferred browser
[18:29] <asac> ok installing it would help ;)(
[18:30] <asac> hmm still doesnt work
[18:30] <fta> what is $LASTVERSION in http://wiki.debian.org/DpkgConffileHandling ?
[18:31] <asac> fta: /usr/lib/xulrunner-<IP_ADDRESS>/components/libnkgnomevfs.so
[18:31] <asac> that is missing in tbird gnome support
[18:31] <asac> fta: for our case LASTVERSION doesnt matter ... does it?
[18:32] <asac> fta: thats only an example ... usually you do this migration stuff only once
[18:32] <asac> e.g. when you upgrade from something lower or equal the last version
[18:32] <asac> butin our case we want to remove all obsolete configs all the time
[18:32] <asac> if they dont have md5sum mismatch of course
[18:32] <asac> fta: so just dont if dpkg ---compare-version
[18:33] <asac> fta: hmm
[18:33] <asac> fta: now that i look ... its a bit different for us
[18:33] <fta> yep
[18:33] <asac> fta:  i think you will figure. we want to remove all obsolet that are not modified
[18:33] <asac> shoudl be simple ;)
[18:33] <asac> dpkg-query is a good start i guess
[18:34] <crimsun> asac: RE bug 279346, ask that the reporter does not have an ~/.asoundrc, that the reporter has libasound2-plugins installed.  It /can/ be a pulseaudio issue; please ask the reporter to try the pulseaudio deb in my PPA.  [If it in turn is a pa issue, then it's better in luke's 0.9.13 PPA debs.]
[18:34] <asac> fta: $ dpkg-query -W -f='${Conffiles}' xulrunner-1.9 | grep obsolete
[18:35] <asac> those we want to check with md5sum and remove
[18:35] <asac> and 1.9.1 of coruse
[18:38] <fta> yeah, already done, testing now
[18:39] <asac> crimsun: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Bugs/FlashAnswers
[18:39] <asac>  ;)
[18:39] <crimsun> :-)
[18:39] <asac> crimsun: anything the people should add? e.g. like sound card or so?
[18:40] <crimsun> asac: I don't think so
[18:40] <asac> crimsun: so what should happen i nwhat case? if your packages fix it -> alsa-plugins bug?
[18:41] <asac> if themuso fixes it -> pulseaudio
[18:41] <asac> if 1. or 2 -> invalid ;)
[18:42] <crimsun> asac: well, it's always tied to pulseaudio somehow.  intrepid's pa has stability problems (known); luke's PPA debs resolve many of those crashers.  sometimes reporters have stale ~/.asoundrc*, which mucks up things.
[18:42] <asac> fta: we have official branding in desktop menu, but the ugly letter as window icon ...is that a bug in packaging (e.g. gnome official icon) or in tbird?
[18:45] <fta> i don't remember, i'll check. i'm multi-tasking by 4 right now :S
[18:45] <asac> crimsun: ok i will do the first round then only i gues ... just wanted to do something instead of just reassigning somewhere ;)
[18:45] <asac> fta: thats good ... multi stuff keeps you younger than felt ;)
[19:04] <fta> damn, the file is now removed for good
[19:09] <asac> fta: i need gnome support quick ;)
[19:09] <asac> i cannot select a binary manualkly because file dialog crashes ;)
[19:10] <fta> strange, noone reported that to me
[19:10] <asac> fta: click link so you get asked for application ...
[19:10] <asac> then in file chooser type
[19:10] <asac> ctrl+l
[19:10] <asac> -> /usr/bin/firefox (hit enter)
[19:10] <asac> freeze + crash
[19:11] <asac> hmm
[19:11] <asac> this reminds me of bugs i read against ffox 3.0 today in launchpad
[19:11] <asac> they said that they cannot save files anymore because file chooser freezes stuff
[19:13] <asac> bug 274661
[19:13] <asac> but thats not the bug i ment
[19:15] <asac> strange cant find it anymore .)
[19:33] <fta> asac,  $ wget -qO- http://launchpadlibrarian.net/19186453/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-i386.thunderbird-3.0_3.0~b1~hg20081031r785%2Bnobinonly-0ubuntu1~fta2_FULLYBUILT.txt.gz | zgrep -c nkgnomevf
[19:33] <fta> 0
[19:34] <fta> so libnkgnomevfs.so is not even built
[19:59] <asac> fta: hmm
[19:59] <asac> fta: and gnome-vfs?
[20:00] <asac> fta: maybe we need to enable gnomevfs
[20:00] <asac> fta: usually it was --eanble-gconf --eanble-gnomevfs
[20:01] <fta> i'm sure i had that.. strangely, it's gone
[20:01] <fta> how could i force my gre file to be reinstalled ?
[20:02] <asac> fta: --purge
[20:02] <asac> install ;)
[20:02] <asac> (old)
[20:03] <asac> fta: or try to be hacky and manipulate Conffiles in dpkg status file
[20:03] <asac> manually
[20:03] <asac> and reinstall after that
[20:03] <asac> /var/lib/dpkg/status
[20:03] <asac> but if it breaks dont blame me ;)
[20:04] <fta> there's no api to add a file in there ?
[20:05] <asac> fta: mvo said "dpkg comes from hell" ;)
[20:06] <asac> that made me believe keeping it as a blackbox might be beneficial
[20:21] <asac> fta: here is the crasher bug :) ... i think: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/288529
[20:22] <asac> the file dialog thing
[20:24] <asac> renamed now ... https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/288529
[20:29] <asac> fta: also track seb128 for karma ;)
[20:29] <asac> i want to detect manipulation ;)
[20:29] <fta> done
[20:38] <asac> fta: tomorrow is meeting ;)
[20:38] <asac> in case you forgot
[20:38] <fta> yep, got the remainder
[20:57] <fta> ix:~$ lsb_release -c
[20:57] <fta> Codename:       jaunty
[21:28] <fta> asac, libnkgnomevfs.so is a browser thing, not xul, hence not tb
[21:37] <fta> mozilla bug 461399
[21:42] <Jazzva> asac, I'll skip the meeting :(. I have to go to a friend...
[22:24] <fta> [reed], is hg.m.o dead?
[23:34] <fta> asac, > 45k
[23:35] <fta> asac, i just passed 13k :(
[23:52] <fta> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~mozillateam/xul-explorer/xul-explorer.head