[07:18] <santa_> good morning everybody
[07:18] <santa_> RikMills: FYI, I'm going to prepare KA 2.3.1 for hirsute
[07:19] <santa_> + create the _staging_hirsute branches for frameworks
[07:47] <RikMills> santa_: ack :)
[12:42] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[20:32] <Mamarok> is Hippo confirmed?
[20:33] <RikMills> yes
[20:34] <RikMills> thanks!


[00:57] <Whinis> My custom kernel spits out a wierd mountall and plymouth error
[01:02] <Whinis> could not connect to upstart: could not open socket: address family not supported by protocol
[08:51]  * apw yawns
[08:52]  * smb is beyond thatzzzzz
[08:55]  * amitk throws resistors into apw's gaping mouth
[08:56] <amitk> that's all I had lying around :)
[08:56] <smb> amitk, Amazing what kind of stuff _you_ have lying around. :)
[08:56] <apw> its a while since i had any of those
[08:57] <apw> or indeed a use for the
[08:57] <apw> them
[09:00] <amitk> heh
[09:04] <apw> > #ifdef BTN_TRIGGER_HAPPY
[09:04]  * apw reminises ... how did you get that past them
[09:04]  * smb just proposed...
[09:05] <smb> ... and apparently there was no better name for the need of more than 40 buttons on a joystick
[09:06]  * apw smiles about the name
[09:14] <apw> smb, oh while i remember ... did that email go out abuot the SATA ALPM ?
[11:28] <soren> apw: Would you guys object terribly to including the netfilter ipset patch in the kernel?
[11:29] <apw> soren, which one is that, got a pointer ?  and in which kernel?
[11:30] <soren> apw: Natty (and onwards, possibly).
[11:30]  * soren finds link
[11:30] <soren> http://ipset.netfilter.org/
[11:30] <apw> is it going upsteream?
[11:30] <apw> and what does it do, why do we need it
[11:31] <soren> It's a more efficient way to apply an iptables filter to a (large) set of IP's.
[11:32] <soren> Instead of having a rule per IP, you have a rule pointing to the ip set.
[11:32] <soren> The ip sets are implemented using more efficient data types.
[11:32] <soren> Like a hash or whatnot.
[11:33] <soren> So instead of having to traverse through hundreds of individual iptables rules, you just have one with a very efficient lookup.
[11:33] <apw> mostly out acceptance of that kind of thing depend on it being something which is on its way upstream, that it is not intrusive and is well maintained; and there is someone asking for it
[11:34] <soren> It's not intrusive at all. It can build completely out-of-tree.
[11:35] <apw> so i wonder if a dkms package might be more appropriate ...
[11:35] <soren> I'm not sure if it's on its way upstream. I tried asking upstream at some point, but never got a response. It's actively maintained, though.
[11:35] <soren> DKMS is certainly possible.
[11:35] <apw> but the normal first step is to propose the thing o
[11:35] <apw> on kernel-team@, preferablly including the patch
[11:35] <soren> Sure.
[11:36] <apw> hows it all going ?  obviously got a lot of machines if you need that :)
[11:36] <soren> I was just trying to float the idea to gauge whether I should bother at all :)
[11:37] <apw> even if we say no, at least noone else needs to ask the reasons if we have them in public
[11:37] <soren> Indeed.
[11:38] <soren> I try to avoid hardware. It's nice and quiet in my office without server fans drilling into my ears.
[11:38] <soren> :)
[15:24] <smb> tgardner, Rhetorical question: the last time you did an ABI bump in Hardy was longer time ago, wasn't it?
[15:25] <tgardner> smb, um, I think I pushed one recently. lemme check
[15:25] <smb> tgardner, Yep, that is the one you broke. :)
[15:25] <tgardner> smb, what do you mean?
[15:25] <apw> smb, is hardy the one we still ahve the result files checked in?
[15:26]  * smb reminds tgardner that Hardy has all this generated files checked into the tree still
[15:26] <smb> yep,
[15:26] <smb> I got things here, will fix it up
[15:26] <apw> at least we have -next rebase allowed ness now
[15:26] <tgardner> smb, I've been building hardy, so I thought it was correct. what did I miss?
[15:27] <smb> Yeah,
[15:27] <apw> tgardner, the issue is if you clean it works just fine
[15:27] <smb> tgardner,  Oh just those control control.stub and d-i stuff
[15:27] <apw> but if you just make it can leave the unchanged files ... all depends on dates
[15:27] <tgardner> frick
[15:27] <smb> Just give me a second and next is good
[15:27] <apw> JFo, shall we dance on the balcony
[15:28] <JFo> sure
[15:29] <smb> tgardner, done
[15:30] <tgardner> smb, pulled
[15:30] <tgardner> smb, did I get dapper right?
[15:30] <smb> tgardner, Not build tested yet. That will be next
[15:32] <smb> tgardner, It looks right though
[15:32] <tgardner> will wonders never cease ?
[15:40] <JFo> you're just that good tgardner :)
[15:48] <bjf> smb, new version checked in and pushed, give it a try
[15:48] <bjf> smb, if i can get it working for you, i figure it will work for the others as well :-)
[15:48] <smb> tgardner, Would you want the honors? I am done with my CVE this week... :-P
[15:49] <tgardner> smb, I'll try it with the next one.
[15:49] <bjf> smb, if you use the "--staging" flag, you can use the same cve number and it will create the bug on the staging server
[15:49] <smb> bjf, Right, true. Ok, a sec
[15:52] <smb> bjf, lpltk.service.LaunchpadServiceError
[15:53] <bjf> smb, ok, let me do some real debugging and not just some hacking
[15:53] <smb> bjf, Ok, it seems the error comes from reset in lpltk so it could be just lp being broken
[15:54] <smb> Oh wait that _is_ the default isn't it. :)
[16:14] <bjf> smb, the staging server is: "Code Update In Progress", took me a bit to run that down
[16:15] <smb> bjf, Ph well, so broken by default was true. Thanks for digging into that
[16:23] <tgardner> GrueMaster, Lucid linux-mvl-dove is built at https://launchpad.net/~canonical-kernel-team/+archive/ppa/+packages. Please test it. thanks.
[16:24] <GrueMaster> Already loaded.  Just getting ready to head to the basement to verify console screen output.  Thanks.
[16:24] <apw> yay interlock is working
[16:26]  * JFo goes to check on the updates on his natty netbook. brb
[16:28] <GrueMaster> tgardner: Still not right.  Same console screen corruption.
[16:30] <tgardner> GrueMaster, hmm, you're _really_ sure the previous kernel doesn't exhibit this issue? I wonder if I rebuilt the previous version using current Lucid toolchain etc if it would also have the console problem.
[16:32] <GrueMaster> I just rebooted and reverified (lots of stairs were involved).
[16:33] <GrueMaster> The working kernel for lucid on dove is 2.6.32-209.25
[16:33] <GrueMaster> I wonder if there is something that needs to be done for plymouth?
[16:34] <tgardner> GrueMaster, well shit, 2.6.32-209.25 isn't exactly the previous kernel. there are at least 4 versions after that. I wonder which one broke the console?
[16:37] <GrueMaster> The only one that apt-cache shows in between 209 and 214 is 211.  I was never notified of it, but I can install and test it.
[16:37] <tgardner> GrueMaster, do you have 210.26, 211.27,  212,28,  or 213.29 ? I can rebuild them if not.
[16:37] <GrueMaster> linux-image-2.6.32-211-dove_2.6.32-211.27_armel.deb is the one being pulled from archive.
[16:38] <tgardner> GrueMaster, probably 'cause they never got promoted. Are you pulling from -proposed?
[16:38] <GrueMaster> Let me see if it passes or fails, then we can go from there.
[16:39] <GrueMaster> Yes I am.  But my system is in the basement in a rack cabinet now, and unless I am notified of updates, I don't test them.
[16:39] <tgardner> GrueMaster, does _anyone_ else have this HW? Someone in the community?
[16:40] <GrueMaster> I think the only other hw I know of is OEM, but it is not marvel test platform.  They have an OEM system.
[16:40] <tgardner> I'm wondering why I'm spending time on it otherwise
[16:40] <GrueMaster> I haven't heard of any dove based systems in the wild yet.
[16:40] <GrueMaster> heh, same here.  :P
[16:41] <tgardner> lemme chat up David.
[16:41] <GrueMaster> (which is also why I recommend ignoring karmic).
[16:41] <tgardner> karmic is already abandoned
[16:41] <tgardner> for mvl-doce that is
[16:41] <GrueMaster> yea!
[16:41] <tgardner> dove*
[16:42] <GrueMaster> That saves me a LOT of headache.  I don't have an image atm.  Not even a mirrored copy to boot with.  I would have to start from scratch.
[16:45] <GrueMaster> Ok, relocated to basement.  linux-image-2.6.32-211-dove_2.6.32-211.27_armel.deb is running with no console corruption.
[16:48] <GrueMaster> tgardner: I'll setup my panda systems to do builds and test the kernels in between pass & fail (unless I can find them on lp).
[16:48] <GrueMaster> I can build faster than the buildds.
[16:49] <tgardner> GrueMaster, I can cross-compile or use qemu to build in just a few minutes.
[16:49] <GrueMaster> Wel, that would be even faster then.  :P
[16:50] <tgardner> GrueMaster, I'm emailing David to verify we even need to do this.
[16:50] <GrueMaster> He's in #arm is you want to ping him directly.
[16:52] <tgardner> GrueMaster, I can't type that fast, so I'll just annoy him with email
[16:56] <GrueMaster> heh
[17:00] <JFo> k, gonna try to grab some lunch on time today for a change. :-)
[17:00] <JFo> bbiab
[17:06] <GrueMaster> tgardner: Looks like 2.6.212 also fails.  That narrows it down.  I got it here:  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-mvl-dove/2.6.32-212.28/+buildjob/2064004
[17:26] <htorque_> apw, hi, just had some time for bug 721389 i cloned the branch that got merged (which definitely is the first bad commit in linus' tree) and it doesn't show the problem
[17:26] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 721389 in linux "Boot time regression 2.6.38" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/721389
[17:27] <htorque_> should i now incrementally test all 33 commits that were part of that merge on linus' tree (after the last good commit)?
[17:27] <apw> htorque_, you should be able to bisect the branch too
[17:27] <apw> but yes
[17:28] <htorque_> apw, the last commit of that branch is good, so i don't know what to bisect for
[17:28] <apw> ?
[17:28] <apw> oh hrm
[17:28] <apw> wibble
[17:28] <apw> so an interaction between the two, does the commit itself have any diff ?
[17:29] <apw> could it be a merge error
[17:29] <apw> htorque_, ok what prolly would do next
[17:30] <apw> then as the branch is fine, but the merge of it is not
[17:30] <apw> is to checkout the commit before the merge, then cherry-pick all of the 33 onto the top, not merge them
[17:30] <apw> and then test that, if it fails, you can then bisect over that
[17:31] <htorque_> apw: thanks, will do :-)
[17:32] <jj-afk> back in a bit
[18:35] <tgardner> bjf, Traceback (most recent call last):
[18:35] <tgardner>   File "./create-cve-tracker", line 219, in <module>
[18:35] <tgardner>     app.main()
[18:35] <tgardner>   File "./create-cve-tracker", line 167, in main
[18:35] <tgardner>     bug = self.lp.create_bug(project='ubuntu', package='linux', title=title, description=description, tags=tags)
[18:35] <tgardner> TypeError: create_bug() got an unexpected keyword argument 'tags'
[18:44] <htorque> apw: if i haven't screwed up: after applying all the patches the resulting kernel doesn't show the bug
[18:45] <apw> wibble
[18:51]  * tgardner --> lunch
[19:49] <blag> im trying to build the ubuntu maverick kernel from git, but it keeps telling me to run "make mrproper", which blows out the debian/ directory, which means the command "fakeroot debian/rules binary-generic" from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/BuildYourOwnKernel fails.  how do I build a .deb file of the ubuntu kernel by just using make?
[19:50] <jjohansen> blag: you have something messed up, this happens occasionally
[19:50] <jjohansen> if you are in the git tree this trick usually works
[19:50] <jjohansen> run make mrproper and then do a git checkout -f
[19:51] <jjohansen> it will restore the debian directory, and you should be able to build
[19:57] <blag> jjohansen: looks like it worked, thanks!
[20:02]  * jjohansen -> lunch
[20:09] <sforshee> blag, I usually use 'git clean -xfd' in that situation, which seems a little easier and also won't blow away local changes
[20:14] <blag> sforshee: ill have to try that
[20:22] <sconklin> sforshee, blag: git clean -dxf will delete untracked files, unless I'm mistaken
[20:22] <sconklin> so try it in a place you don't care about ;)
[20:23] <sforshee> sconklin, isn't that the point?
[20:23] <sforshee> it's no worse than 'make mrproper' as was suggested before
[20:23] <sconklin> sorry I misread "local changes"
[20:23] <sforshee> yeah, if you have new files they will be blown away, that's a good clarification to throw in
[20:24] <sconklin> http://twitter.com/#!/ubuntustatus
[20:24] <sconklin> ^^ don't upgrade Natty rigth now
[20:25] <JFo> ugh
[20:27] <tgardner> sforshee, I use a sledge hammer to make sure my trees are clean. This works across all versions of git:
[20:27] <tgardner> git checkout -f
[20:27] <tgardner> git clean -f -d
[20:27] <tgardner> git ls-files --others --directory |xargs rm -rf
[20:27] <tgardner> rm -rf .git/rebase*
[20:28] <sforshee> tgardner, that's certainly thorough :)
[20:32] <janimo> which package sets up the 'Restart Needed' notification after certain kernel upgrades?
[20:32] <tgardner> janimo, ask in #ubuntu-devel 'cause I can't remember.
[20:34] <janimo> tgardner, ah so it is not part of the kernel packaging then? Not one of your dpkg hooks?
[20:35] <tgardner> janimo, I'm sure its a hook somewhere in the packaging, I just can't remember where.
[20:42] <tgardner> bjf[afk], the nominations fix works for me
[20:51] <vanhoof> quick question hopefully :)
[20:51] <vanhoof> right now if you file a kernel bug, it lands under 'linux', which is the latest release, natty
[20:51] <JFo> famous last words vanhoof
[20:52] <JFo> true
[20:52] <vanhoof> sub tasks can be opened against prior releases ... maverick, lucid, etc
[20:52] <JFo> yep
[20:52] <vanhoof> now say something doesnt get fixed in natty (linux) at this point in time
[20:52] <JFo> you can open a Natty task now as well
[20:52] <vanhoof> after the natty release, would those tasks be moved to a sub task of natty, and the original task migrated to the 'o' release?
[20:52] <JFo> and the main task will show "Status tracked in Natty"
[20:52] <JFo> no, you would need to add it
[20:53] <vanhoof> ah ok
[20:53] <JFo> it would be nice to have that
[20:53] <JFo> :-)
[20:53] <vanhoof> heh
[20:54] <vanhoof> im just looking at historical data for bugs we've got fixed, sometimes things get filed under linux (applied in natty), and then fix released
[20:54] <vanhoof> i'm wondering if i go back in time, will i be able to find those by searching under natty
[20:54] <JFo> no
[20:54] <vanhoof> sounds like if i want that data i need to have natty tasks opened as well
[20:54] <JFo> I wish, but no
[20:55] <JFo> yep, that would be the best way
[20:55] <JFo> best== easiest
[20:55] <vanhoof> cool, thanks JFo :)
[20:55] <JFo> my pleasure vanhoof :)
[21:24]  * tgardner has pretty much had his fill of CVE tedium
[21:25] <tgardner> bjf, so, are you considering adding all of the relevant linux package names to create-cve-tracker ?
[21:26] <bjf> yes, it's on my todo list
[21:26] <bjf> tgardner, ^
[21:26] <tgardner> bjf, cool. see you Tuesday.


[10:11] <pepi61> hi, i'm using lubuntu 18.04 lts and i'm wondering what's the latest kernel - to check if mine is update
[10:12] <pepi61> since 4.15.0-88-generic seems old
[10:12] <guiverc> 18.04 can use HWE which will give you 5.3, or GA which is 4.15
[10:13] <guiverc> sorry my 18.04 has HWE enabled (so 5.3.0-40), and I don't know how to ask irc/bot for latest 18.04 GA kernel.. if you wait someone else may know
[10:14] <pepi61> thanks guiverc,  how can i use that? HWE /GA
[10:14] <guiverc> pepi61, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/LTSEnablementStack
[10:15] <guiverc> in quick summary; HWE causes 18.04 to use 18.10's stack, then 19.04, 19.10 and eventually settle on 20.04's kernel & graphic.. stack..
[10:16] <pepi61> Ok thanks, however the link seems to only provide instructions for HWE
[10:16] <pepi61> if i want a more stable(?) GA
[10:17] <guiverc> GA refers to the more general available kernel; the default 4.15 used for upgraded installs, or 18.04 & 18.04.1 new installs.
[10:17] <pepi61> do i need to install a specific one? or can i install something like "always use latest ga"
[10:17] <guiverc> GA is what you're already using.
[10:17] <pepi61> Ah, I see
[10:18] <pepi61> Ok thanks, I'll try the HWE then
[10:18] <guiverc> (GA is referred to in the prior link I gave I see)
[10:18] <pepi61> for some reason my camera stopped working and I'm out of ideas other than change kernels
[10:19] <guiverc> if you have the bandwidth & a spare thumb-drive, I'd probably opt to download a different ISO (different release, or a standard/unmodified release) & try it there first.
[10:20] <guiverc> ie. using the "Try Ubuntu/Start Lubuntu" or 'live' mode; sorry I don't have a camera on either box here (20.04 & 18.04)
[10:20] <pepi61> So you mean verify it's working on a fresh/live install?
[10:20] <guiverc> yep.
[10:21] <guiverc> (without the install bit, ie. just the 'live' system)
[10:21] <pepi61> i'll do that, but it was working yesterday... and a new Zoom install ruined it system-wide
[10:21] <pepi61> so i'm sure hardware is ok
[10:22] <guiverc> sorry I have no real experience with camera so can't help you with that.
[10:24] <pepi61> ok thanks, just one more question
[10:24] <pepi61> if i install the HWE
[10:24] <pepi61> and it somehow is worse
[10:24] <pepi61> can i still go back?
[10:26] <guiverc> Yes. on install your old GA kernels won't disappear so current kernels can always be selected at grub.  With your issue, have you tried using an older (already-installed) kernel?  I somehow suspect kernel may not make a difference given things you've said  (new zoom? [i don't know it] impacting a kernel???)
[10:30] <guiverc> 4.15.0-88 is the current latest for 18.04 without HWE (or using GA)
[10:31] <pepi61> ok so i'm on latest
[10:32] <pepi61> ok thanks for the help, i'll first verify with a live os like you suggested
[10:32] <pepi61> good bye
[13:16] <filip_> hi
[20:02] <rafobr> Hi. I've installed lubunt with the disk encryption option. The thing is, when I power on the pc the prompt screen for the encryption password is not like the screen on ubuntu , xubuntu or ubuntu-mate ( the distro logo and an input field to type in). In lubuntu it is just a plain black screen with the messagen to input the password (no lubuntu
[20:02] <rafobr> logo). And the annoying part is, it only give one change to try decrypting. If the first attempt fails it goes to GRUB command prompt screen (with the indicator "grub>")... Not sure if its the expected behavior or a installation problem. Any hints? Thanks in advance
[20:05] <wxl> rafobr: yep, expected. the other ubuntu flavors don't encrypt the whole disk (they don't encrypt /boot). we do. that, unfortunately, makes for a little less-friendly interface, but at the benefit of greater security.
[20:05] <rafobr> I guess something is wrong since I've noticed some posts on the internet showing what the decryption screen would look like https://i.stack.imgur.com/0yaNi.png
[20:09] <rafobr> wxl I see...
[20:10] <rafobr> thanks!
[20:15] <rafobr> Sorry to bother you again wxl ... Can we set the number of times we can try to input the password and to make that password input mask (eg.: ***** ) to appear as we type in?
[20:19] <wxl> rafobr: as far as i know, no. i would have to investigate further to be sure.
[20:21] <rafobr> thanks wxl ! I'm looking for any clue on internet foruns too... thx :)


[20:10] <flackblag> I would like to track down a sudden sound issue and have a hard time locating where the actual breakage occurred. It seems like a bug to me. Any help would be appreciated:
[20:10] <flackblag> Sound always worked fine for me, also in Hardy
[20:10] <bhsx> flackblag: you mean where you have sound with all applications... then it seems to just stop working?
[20:10] <flackblag> Yesterday, after installing lots of updates from the weekend, sound in totem-gstreamer stopped working
[20:10] <bhsx> i came across that yesterday on this desktop
[20:11] <flackblag> Sound elsewhere is fine
[20:11] <bhsx> maybe the new totem forgot to setup as pulseaudio?
[20:11] <flackblag> gstreamer-properties is set to PulseAudio, as it has been for a while (when it worked)
[20:11] <flackblag> when I reun the test in gstreamer-properties, I get: "PulseAudio Sound Server: Failed to connect: Connection refused"
[20:12] <bhsx> bbiab, gotta go paint a wall (doing 1000 things at once today)
[20:12] <jimmygoon> Firefox is crashing every time I try to access live.xbox.com
[20:12] <flackblag> But even if I set it to Alsa, I have no sound in totem
[20:12] <jimmygoon> and how can I reinstall Human theme because I'm not on the new murrine theme....
[20:12] <flackblag> All the while, vlc etc works
[20:13] <flackblag> Seems like an issue in PulseAudio in any case, but I couldn't find a report in Launchpad, so I wonder
[20:14] <sarah____> anyone here use hardy haron?
[20:14] <flackblag> And it's weird that totem seems to have no sound with whatever setting I choose
[20:14] <jimmygoon> !pastebin
[20:14] <ubotu> pastebin is a service to post multiple-lined texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic)
[20:15] <amx109> sarah____, im guessing most of us do, yes
[20:15] <flackblag> sarah: it's the Hardy channel, so I would hope so :)
[20:15] <jimmygoon> firefox crashes on this link. every. single. time. http://live.xbox.com/member/stripclubdj
[20:15] <jimmygoon> with this error. http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/61046/
[20:15] <sarah____> :) cool
[20:15] <sarah____> im deciding if i should upgrade... or wait for the release
[20:15] <sarah____> any input?
[20:15] <mkarnicki> hi guys. I want to help translating ubuntu hardy, where do i start?
[20:15] <flackblag> jimmygoon: works for me
[20:16] <amx109> sarah____, upgrade upgrade upgrade
[20:16] <jimmygoon> flackblag, are you logged in? like do you actually see the gamer info?
[20:16] <flackblag> sarah: if you need to ask, don't upgrade
[20:16] <amx109> jimmygoon, links ok for me
[20:16] <sarah____> :) but i have some documents i need, anyone i can upgrade without backing them up?
[20:16] <jimmygoon> :( its okay until I login
[20:16] <sarah____> anyway*
[20:16] <jimmygoon> and it happens on every page I go to
[20:16] <flackblag> sarah: see the topic of the channel :)
[20:16] <tanner_> sarah____: is there any pressing reason you *need* to upgrade?
[20:17] <flackblag> jimmygoon: sorry, I have no accoutn, so i cannot test that
[20:17] <sarah____> well i really like ubuntu!
[20:17] <tanner_> sarah____: does everything on your computer work properly?
[20:17]  * JediMaster loves Hardy Heron =)
[20:17] <jimmygoon> flackblag, well, thanks anyway
[20:17] <bhsx> sarah____: can you use gmail or something like mybloop.com to backup before you install?
[20:17] <mkarnicki> guys and gals, where can I start helping to translate hardy?
[20:17] <flackblag> sarah: it is ALWAYS a good idea to have a backup when upgrading. Things _can go wrong. I know, I once lost 300 GB through user error (I was drunk, but still :)
[20:17] <sarah____> it did until i tried to install AWN, messed with the sources.list and i have some broken links hehe
[20:18] <tanner_> !translating
[20:18] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about translating - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[20:18] <bhsx> mkarnicki: i'm not sure that this would be where to ask....
[20:18] <sarah____> yeah i already added my docs to gmail
[20:18] <tanner_> erm
[20:18] <orvokki> flackblag: Heh, you don't really even *need* a version upgrade for that...
[20:18] <flackblag> nope
[20:18] <mkarnicki> well i'm sorry, but I don't know where to start. /community/participate isn't much informative..
[20:19] <tanner_> mkarnicki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TranslatingUbuntu
[20:19] <mkarnicki> thank you!
[20:19] <mkarnicki> have a good day ^-^ ! cheers
[20:19] <bhsx> =)
[20:19] <ks> i am frustrated with hardy :(
[20:19] <sarah____> how does hardy compare to gusty?
[20:19] <tanner_> arent we all
[20:20] <KRF> why is that guidance thing still untranslated? :S
[20:20] <KRF> or partly translated
[20:20] <bhsx> ks: i think it feels a lot more responsive
[20:21] <KRF> i'm happy with hardy. suspend/resume finally works ;)
[20:21] <bhsx> and of course you can install Brasero on 7.10, but it's a nice integration into hardy
[20:21] <sarah____> KRF: what computer specs do you have?
[20:21] <flackblag> bhsx: did I understand you correctly that you saw the sound issue, too?
[20:21] <sarah____> CPU/graphic card i mean.
[20:21] <bhsx> everything feels very quick and solid
[20:22] <bhsx> flackblag: i had a small glitch with sound last night
[20:22] <KRF> sarah____, intel T7250, and a nv gf 9800 gt
[20:22] <bhsx> not the same as you though
[20:22] <KRF> errm, gf 8600 gt :P
[20:22] <bhsx> and mine "fixed itself" with a bit of fiddling
[20:22] <flackblag> ok, thanks. Seems not widespread, I guess. Good for Ubuntu, bad for me ...
[20:22] <sarah____> KRF does amd/radeon have good support with linux, specifically ubuntu?
[20:22] <theunixgeek> How do I downgrade to Gutsy?
[20:22] <sarah____> i read they dont have great support
[20:22] <bhsx> that's always the case, isn't it?
[20:23] <h3sp4wn> sarah____: hardy will probably solve all your problems (but just create different ones)
[20:23] <KRF> sarah____, nv is better
[20:23] <bhsx> and i found an answer to my wifi dilmna too
[20:23] <sarah____> you think nv is better? i read radeon in about 10 yrs will over take nv.
[20:23] <sarah____> you agree?
[20:23] <flackblag> theunixgeek: by reinstalling
[20:24] <orvokki> sarah____: That's the life span of several computers...
[20:24] <Raspberry> anybody else have an empty / missing gnome desktop  since the last round of updates?
[20:24] <bhsx> it's the intel 3945abg, which has some nice drivers in universe, apparently
[20:24] <sarah____> :P
[20:24] <bhsx> as soon as i'm done installing win32 i'll check it out
[20:24] <h3sp4wn> Raspberry: creating a new user ?
[20:24] <Raspberry> I can see the Wireless N SSID now :)  But I still can't connect to it
[20:24] <Raspberry> h3sp4wn: no, existing user
[20:24] <h3sp4wn> Something got totally mangled for me with network manager
[20:25] <h3sp4wn> so I just moved the home dir away - now seems ok
[20:25] <Raspberry> h3sp4wn: yeah I could only connect to a single network
[20:25] <h3sp4wn> but loads of the default stuff is missing
[20:25] <Raspberry> heh I hate reconfiguring everything over and over again :P  I guess I can drop some of the configs back in like .mozilla and what-not
[20:26] <h3sp4wn> I do - using stuff like gconf is annoying for that
[20:26] <Raspberry> h3sp4wn: I was playing around with KDE4 ... I had logged in just fine, but wanted to see what the fresh install was like since the latest updates...
[20:26] <Raspberry> so I deleted .kde4 and then I couldn't login to KDE4... so I went to log back in to gnome... and I can log back in but no Desktop
[20:27] <Raspberry> I hadn't logged out for 2-3 days
[20:27] <JediMaster> sarah____: generally a machine really needs to be upgraded/replaced every 2-3 years, let alone 10, unfortunately, Intel/Nvidia combination outperforms AMD/ATI in most cases, which sucks, as I'm an AMD fan myself
[20:27] <sarah____> me too
[20:28] <Raspberry> I'm a big AMD fan, but wow is there a huge difference in performance between Intel and AMD
[20:28] <h3sp4wn> JediMaster: Depends on the quality of components
[20:28] <sarah____> my pc is 10 yrs old, its in dier need of an update!
[20:28] <Raspberry> my Intel 1.6Ghz laptop out performs my Athlon64X2 4800+ desktop
[20:29] <tanner_> Raspberry: you need the development kernel to get N to work properly
[20:29] <orvokki> Raspberry: Core 2 Duo?
[20:29] <Raspberry> tanner_: :)  hmm is it available in package form?   I've learned that
[20:31] <orvokki> sarah____: One after Hardy?
[20:31] <h3sp4wn> tanner_: Is there any drivers for N working in ap mode
[20:31] <Raspberry> orvokki: there's nothing in the AMD family that performs at the same level for the $$$ which is a big disappointment
[20:31] <nikrud> sarah____  intrepid ibex
[20:31] <sarah____> orvokki yes
[20:31] <sarah____> intrepid ibex? really?
[20:32] <nikrud> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2008-February/025136.html  sarah____
[20:32] <orvokki> Raspberry: Well, Core 2 Duo was a success. A bit of an unexpected one too outperforming everything AMD had to offer like that.
[20:32] <sarah____> thanks nickrud
[20:32] <Raspberry> brb... gonna reboot and see if this new stuff fixes my desktop
[20:32] <h3sp4wn> My athlon x2 6400 seems to outperform my 2.4 ghz laptop
[20:33] <Raspberry> orvokki: and I get ~6hrs of battery life out of my laptop in Windows ... and only 2.5 to 3hrs in Linux
[20:33] <orvokki> h3sp4wn: Clock frequencies have mattered little for maybe half a decade.
[20:33] <Raspberry> h3sp4wn: what's the spec on your laptop?
[20:33] <orvokki> That's really saying nothing unless you say the exact brand of the CPU.
[20:33] <h3sp4wn> I thought it was presumed it was a recent core 2
[20:33] <sarah____> what type of repository do you guys have enabled?
[20:33] <h3sp4wn> seen as that is what is in discussion
[20:33] <sarah____> for your sources.list
[20:34] <orvokki> h3sp4wn: Maybe it's Core 2 instead of Core 2 Duo?
[20:34] <h3sp4wn> Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU     T7700  @ 2.40GHz
[20:34] <Raspberry> I will say that I could see that being possible as the 6400 black edition machines I've built for engineering shops just scream
[20:34] <orvokki> Hmm, odd then.
[20:34] <Raspberry> they are dual core with 1mb of L2 on each core
[20:34] <fromport> raspberry: that's relative: are you doing the same ? if i leave my laptop idle and consume all power "idle" there's lesse then 10% in battery time between xp and hardy
[20:34] <Raspberry> which is a big deal for AMD
[20:35] <h3sp4wn> This Core 2 duo has 4mb per core afaik
[20:35] <tanner_> h3sp4wn: and by ap mode you mean..to act as an accesspoint?
[20:35] <h3sp4wn> tanner_: Yeah (ideally with WDS etc)
[20:35] <sarah____> Raspberry: what do you mean 6400 "black edition machines" you'be built for engineering shopes?
[20:35] <Raspberry> fromport: no, I'm surfing the web, writing notes (tablet) and SSH'd into a couple of servers things of that nature in Vista and in Linux, I'm surfing, and coding
[20:36] <ks> h3sp4wn:  is this correct to use modules for --preload=xenblk ?
[20:36] <sarah____> can you build me a black edition machine raspberry? :P
[20:36] <h3sp4wn> ks: given you are using initramfs-tools
[20:36] <Raspberry> sarah____: there's a "black edition" of the 6000 and 6400 series AMD AM2 Athlon64x2 processors that have their timing unlocked for overclocking (although I'm not overclocking them)
[20:36] <tanner_> h3sp4wn: i believe i recall seeing something a while about about some WAP models (linksys or d-link perhaps?) 802.11n capable that used linux as its base
[20:36] <sarah____> just a list of spec, i can do the shopping
[20:37] <sarah____> oh i see
[20:37] <Raspberry> tanner_: I have one of them
[20:37] <sarah____> you a fan of the macbook air?
[20:37] <h3sp4wn> tanner_: binary only kernel modules
[20:37] <ks> h3sp4wn:  i've edited the said file and ran update-initramfs -u
[20:37] <Raspberry> tanner_: the Linksys WRT-600n ... I just bought it last week ... and Linksys has released the source... it's a dual-band 2.4ghz and 5.0ghz router
[20:37] <h3sp4wn> ks: have a look inside to see if it worked then
[20:38] <h3sp4wn> ks: its a cpio.gz
[20:38] <tanner_> h3sp4wn: not 100% sure on that, though i believe work is being made to madwifi
[20:38] <tanner_> Raspberry: i have the WRT330N model which i also believe has the source out
[20:38] <ks> h3sp4wn:  here is output of boot http://pastebin.ca/957176
[20:39] <DanaG> Argh, why does gparted use ntfsclone instead of dd?
[20:39] <Raspberry> tanner_: yup I think so
[20:39] <ks> h3sp4wn:  see lines 31-32 and 40-43
[20:39] <Raspberry> tanner_: I had a NetGear before but it was horrible -- I got tired of restarting it a couple times a week ... or whenever pidgin on linux (?!?!?! why??!) would make it's initial connection
[20:40] <tanner_> Raspberry: i generally try to avoid netgear :D
[20:40] <ks> h3sp4wn:  i think modules directive loads it too late
[20:41] <h3sp4wn> ks: Is it your custom kernel ?
[20:41] <h3sp4wn> If it is why do you need an initramfs at all ?
[20:41] <Raspberry> tanner_: they used to be good
[20:42] <tanner_> Raspberry: ah i see which one you got.. i think the only difference between ours is the NAS
[20:42] <tanner_> I suppose, i prefer linksys myself
[20:42] <Raspberry> tanner_: really? the 350 is dual-channel? MIMO
[20:42] <h3sp4wn> Best router I have is gateway
[20:42] <sarah____> linksys is good, but they need to make their products look better
[20:42] <sarah____> i like mac's airport extreme wireless
[20:42] <DanaG> Argh, why does gparted use ntfsclone instead of dd?  It's so much slower than dd.
[20:42] <sarah____> and g-techs wireless
[20:43]  * DanaG uses a Buffalo router with dd-wrt firmware.
[20:43] <DanaG> Viva la QoS!
[20:43] <Raspberry> I wanted to get a Buffalo but they're kinda "unavailable" here in the US
[20:43] <DanaG> I wish I could've been the judge in that case.  I would've told the plaintiffs this:
[20:43] <sarah____> i thought KFC had them no? hehe
[20:44] <DanaG> "Hey, it's unfair to pick on only one company.  If you want to sue one, you must sue ALL of them!"
[20:44] <tanner_> Raspberry: i know it supports both b/g and N at the same time (if thats what you are referring to as dual-band) and yes MIMO
[20:44] <DanaG> Muhahahaha.
[20:44] <tanner_> erm, not "and yes"
[20:44] <Raspberry> tanner_: no, this one has two channels... so you can connect to 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz at the same time... and / or keep them separate completely ... with different security and everything
[20:44] <ks> h3sp4wn:  yes it is
[20:45] <sarah____> Raspberry im in dier need of a computer grade. Mine is almost 9 years old.... had it since 99'-00' good old HP still kicking.
[20:45] <h3sp4wn> My router has 2 mini-pci's seperate (b/g and a)
[20:45] <sarah____> any input on building a neat pc?
[20:46] <tanner_> Raspberry: not 100% on that, the AP actually isnt plugged in yet.. not until i get 11n working
[20:46] <Raspberry> sarah____: https://secure.newegg.com/NewVersion/Wishlist/PublicWishDetail.asp?WishListNumber=6671346&WishListTitle=MCE+Order+Sept25th
[20:46] <blizzkid> lo all. how can I use the cd after installation? When trying to use apt-get from cd, it fails to mount the cd
[20:46] <DanaG> good site for notebooks: notebookreview.com
[20:46] <sarah____> newegg or directiger cheaper?
[20:47] <Raspberry> tanner_: as far as I know the WRT600N is one of the only (and the only from Linksys) Dual-Band router
[20:47] <ks> anyone knows load precedence of initramfs configs ?
[20:47] <Raspberry> if you've got a newer N card ... it'll hop on the 2.4Ghz and the 5Ghz spectrums at the same time and give you more throughput
[20:47] <sarah____> Raspberry: i think i need this, http://www.newegg.com/Product/ShowImage.aspx?CurImage=34-220-189-18.jpg&Image=34-220-189-18.jpg%2c34-220-189-03.jpg%2c34-220-189-04.jpg%2c34-220-189-05.jpg%2c34-220-189-06.jpg%2c34-220-189-07.jpg%2c34-220-189-08.jpg%2c34-220-189-09.jpg%2c34-220-189-19.jpg%2c34-220-189-13.jpg%2c34-220-189-10.jpg%2c34-220-189-15.jpg%2c34-220-189-11.jpg%2c34-220-189-12.jpg%2c34-220-189-16.jpg&S7ImageFlag=0&Wa
[20:47] <sarah____> terMark=1&Item=N82E16834220189&Depa=3&Description=ASUS+R2H-BH059T-3+7%22+Ultra+Mobile+PC
[20:47] <sarah____> ultra portable!
[20:48] <ks> as i see /scripts/init-premount  is being loaded before /scripts/local-top
[20:48] <sarah____> its like the one Dr Makay uses in Stargate Atlantis
[20:48] <sarah____> you seen that show?
[20:48] <Raspberry> heh yeah
[20:48] <Athaki> I am very impressed with Hardy so far. It's looking to be a great release.
[20:49] <Raspberry> sarah____: there's a version of Ubuntu that is specifically made for the UMPC systems
[20:49] <Raspberry> sarah____: it's in development through a partnership w/ intel -- so maybe it'll have good power mgmt
[20:49] <blizzkid> Athaki: I have to disagree: I'm stuck with an install without nic/wlan drivers, and it fails to use the cd for apt-get
[20:49] <h3sp4wn> You seen the price of those things total rip off
[20:49] <sarah____> isn't Intrepid Ibex for UMPC too?
[20:50] <Athaki> blizzkid: I'm running it in virtualbox
[20:50] <Raspberry> sarah____: http://www.ubuntu.com/products/mobile
[20:51] <sarah____> thanks
[20:51] <orvokki> *sigh*
[20:51] <tanner_> Raspberry: interesting.
[20:51] <orvokki> This looks the start of a happy debug session.
[20:51] <DanaG> I've built a desktop once, but if I ever get a desktop again, it'll be an OEM.  YOu know why?  WARRANTYY.
[20:51] <Raspberry> blizzkid: so download the nic / wlan packages and then install them via USB drive or something like that ... what machine do you have ?
[20:51] <DanaG> (don't mean to be yelling, but I can't do bold or italics.)
[20:51] <sarah____> Raspberry what do you think about the ultra light Macbook air?
[20:52] <sarah____> worth the buy or not
[20:52] <tanner_> sarah____: crap
[20:52] <tanner_> sarah____: if your going to waste a lot of money on a ultraportable, you should get a Thinkpad X300 instead :)
[20:52] <blizzkid> Raspberry: nice idea, but the only driver is a patched madwifi, that needs build-essential, and that one has too much dependencies to download all of them by hand. Can I put a directory on my harddrive in sources.list?
[20:52] <DanaG> Ugh, another bad thing about ntfsclone: it runs sched_normal and thus bogs down the whole system quite horribly.
[20:53] <sarah____> Thinkpad X300 isnt that ultraportable is it?
[20:53] <Raspberry> blizzkid: yes if you do it right :P
[20:53] <Raspberry> sarah____: no
[20:53] <DanaG> HP 2510p is also nice and light, with up to 9 hours battery life on the 9-cell.
[20:53] <Raspberry> sarah____: too expensive yet ... I have a thinkpad X61t
[20:53] <blizzkid> Raspberry: can you help me there? (or even better: point to a mounted iso)
[20:53] <tanner_> whats not ultraportable about the X300 sarah____
[20:54] <sarah____> wow "thinkpad X61t" i like that rotating screen. very neat
[20:54] <Raspberry> blizzkid: that'd probably be the best thing to do ... mount the install ISO and point to that
[20:54] <sarah____> X300 sarah still looks bulky from the picture
[20:54] <sarah____> tanner_
[20:54] <Raspberry> blizzkid: again though... what model machine?
[20:54] <tanner_> x61t is very nice :) along with X61 and X61s
[20:54] <blizzkid> Raspberry: and how exactly would I do that? (machine is Asus F5RL)
[20:54] <h3sp4wn> Well thinkpads actually have a semi decent keyboard
[20:54] <tanner_> sarah____: less than an inch at its thickest
[20:55] <Raspberry> and the thinkpads look the same after 5 years ... not like a cracked and scuffed piece of plastic
[20:55] <tanner_> h3sp4wn: thinkpads have the BEST keyboards. period
[20:55] <h3sp4wn> And don't break easily
[20:55] <tanner_> h3sp4wn: fixed that for you ;)
[20:55] <tanner_> my T41 can attest to Raspberry's statement
[20:55] <Raspberry> my grandma is running XP on my 10yr old THinkpad T21 ... works great
[20:55] <tanner_> erm, T40*
[20:55] <h3sp4wn> tanner_: I prefer a sun keyboard (UNIX layout)
[20:55] <Raspberry> the only thing I've had to fix with it is replaced the hard drive after it died 3 years ago
[20:56] <h3sp4wn> cannot have that with a laptop though :/
[20:56] <tanner_> heh
[20:56] <sarah____> macbook air is good, a little expensive, biggest negative factor is only 1 usb port
[20:56] <h3sp4wn> I like my X31 though (much better designed than this Compaq)
[20:57] <DanaG> Oh hey, if you like the IBM / Lenovo keyboards, you can actually get them for desktops, too.
[20:57] <blizzkid> Raspberry: how can I point sources.list to a mounted iso?
[20:57] <Raspberry> I've owned 3 thinkpads and 1 toshiba and 1 compaq ...  the compaq was an insult ... their customer service was worse...  the toshiba (M200 tablet) was ok, but crappy design ... had to replace the keyboard... case was cracked... dust under the protective screen that can't be removed w/o taking it all apart...  Nothing to complain about with the thinkpads...  The only thing I miss on my X61t is the "ThinkLight" that would light up the
[20:57] <Raspberry> keyboard in the dark
[20:58] <DanaG> http://lenovoblogs.com/designmatters/?p=58
[20:59] <sarah____> is it possible to setup my own pop3 email account on ubuntu?
[20:59] <Raspberry> blizzkid: google much? http://alecthegeek.wordpress.com/2007/01/06/handy-hack-how-to-install-the-ubuntu-install-cd-onto-the-hard-disk/
[20:59] <Raspberry> DanaG: I have one of those :)
[21:00] <Raspberry> $100!!
[21:00]  * tanner_ loves his thinkpad "nipple" trackpoint
[21:00] <blizzkid> sorry Raspberry, I must have overlooked that one (or was looking for wrong keywords ;))
[21:00] <U-Dinlow> I'd like to get my geforce4 card to output to tv - any help?
[21:01] <Scunizi> sarah____, do you want ot access a pop3 account or setup a pop3 server
[21:01] <DanaG> If I were to get a desktop again, I'd definitely want a keyboard with a touchpad.  Much less RSI-inducing than my MX700 mouse.
[21:01] <h3sp4wn> This hp has a nipple and a touchpad but I use an external mouse
[21:01] <DanaG> oh yeah, the HP 2510p laptop:  http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=3905
[21:01] <sarah____> scunizi setup a pop3 server
[21:02] <sarah____> like ally@myisp
[21:02] <SeveredCross> I've heard terrible things about HP laptops.
[21:02]  * DanaG goes to point at the XKCD comic about the "eraser mice" -- in fact, they left out the term "eraser"
[21:02] <sarah____> i can use apache2 for that right?
[21:02] <Scunizi> sarah____, probably can.. that one I don't know how to do.. might try in #ubuntu-server
[21:02] <DanaG> This is a business one, not a consumer one.
[21:02] <jfm> Hi, on news.gnome.org, (FootNotes), it says the new version of Totem included in Gnome 2.22 has VLC support.  I would more information about this feature.   Thanks a lot.
[21:02] <SeveredCross> sarah____: Er, Apache isn't for POP3.
[21:02] <sarah____> oh yeah..
[21:02] <sarah____> i know a few pop3 apps though
[21:02] <sarah____> just havn't tried any yet
[21:02] <Scunizi> SeveredCross, sarah____  oops.. wrong spot..
[21:03] <KalEl> stuck with a tracker-search-tool bug
[21:03] <KalEl> unfortunately cannot even compile it myself for some reason :(
[21:04] <sarah____> dovecot might be good
[21:04]  * tanner_ waits until a Thinkpad X series has: widescreen, expresscard, outdoor capable screen, and 6 hours battery life
[21:05] <h3sp4wn> tanner_: Is there an X series with a quadro ?
[21:05] <tanner_> h3sp4wn: nVidia?
[21:05] <tanner_> i believe all the X series use integrated graphics
[21:05] <tanner_> ill check though..
[21:05] <cyclonut> howdy folks
[21:06] <h3sp4wn> My X series uses a radeon mobility (pretty old)
[21:06]  * DanaG wants something 14" or 15" with an upper-midrange GPU.
[21:06] <h3sp4wn> with xig's x server its cool though
[21:06] <DanaG> xig?
[21:06] <h3sp4wn> xig.com
[21:06] <DanaG> Zig, for great justice.
[21:06] <sarah____> hey Raspberry take a look at this
[21:06] <sarah____> http://laptops.webhostingoverview.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/158.jpg
[21:06] <DanaG> Or something like that.
[21:06] <sarah____> now that is neat
[21:06] <cyclonut> so, the newest intel driver fixes troubles with exa. However, I have xaa forced in xorg.conf. I have been seeing performance decreases that indicate EXA may be working, instead of xaa. how might I check whether xaa or exa rendering is in action?
[21:07] <h3sp4wn> cyclonut: /var/log/Xorg.0.log
[21:07] <cyclonut> ty
[21:07] <tanner_> h3sp4wn: i'm pretty sure the integrated intel graphics are superior to the older radeons :P
[21:08] <h3sp4wn> tanner_: perhaps technically - I guess with xig's intel driver would be much better
[21:08] <cyclonut> xig's driver?
[21:08] <cyclonut> are there custom intel drivers written?
[21:08] <e\ectro_> sarah____: what kinda laptop is that?
[21:08] <h3sp4wn> xig has one you can have if you pay for it
[21:09] <cyclonut> hrmm
[21:09] <h3sp4wn> (you can get a demo)
[21:09] <cyclonut> h3sp4wn, how do I get in touch with this xig?
[21:09] <h3sp4wn> xig.com
[21:09] <sarah____> i think its a new "concept" by IBm e\ectro_
[21:09] <e\ectro_> sarah____: looks very nice
[21:09] <tanner_> h3sp4wn: i'm not sure how relevant it is anymore given the full specs to intels graphics cards are now open :-\
[21:09] <sarah____> indeed
[21:10] <sarah____> i want ti!
[21:10] <sarah____> want it*
[21:10] <h3sp4wn> tanner_: Well the full specs for those ati chips were also open
[21:10] <h3sp4wn> still the ati drivers suck/sucked whilst xig's did not
[21:10] <oxigen> is Ubuntu Brainstorm available for download like is MediaWiki?
[21:10]  * DanaG now really does want an ATI for next time around.
[21:11] <DanaG> I'm sick of nvidia, and I'm willing to take a temporary performance (or even reliability) hit for the sake of being free of nvidia blob.
[21:11] <sarah____> e\ectro_ "In addition, Lenovo company has shown photographs of a new concept laptop Thinkpad Reserve Edition. According to the web resource Notebook Italia it will be a powerful laptop (probably will be built on the platform Santa Rosa). Most likely it will be similar to Lenovo Super Sexy “Yoga”, which won the award Red Dot Award for design."
[21:12] <oxigen> DanaG: what's wrong with nvidia?
[21:12] <Adys> a lot of things
[21:12] <Peter-> Hi, could someone help me with Urban Terror?
[21:12] <e\ectro_> sarah____: hopefully equipped with SSD :)
[21:13] <DanaG> HP one offers SSD.
[21:13] <sarah____> haha
[21:13] <sarah____> would be nice
[21:13] <DanaG> Oh yeah, and now there ARE 5400rpm 1.8" drives.
[21:13] <bhsx> is there a app to fix grub in the livecd?
[21:13] <e\ectro_> rpms are a thing of the past
[21:13] <gaminggeek> anyone else finding that flash doesnt like sharing sound anymore?
[21:14] <e\ectro_> gaminggeek: I know that firefox 3.0 doesnt really care for youtube that much]
[21:14]  * DanaG thinks it's stupid having PulseAudio installed and enabled by default WITHOUT any of the supporting packages (such as libflashsupport).
[21:14] <sarah____> i dont know if i want thinkpad x300 or macbook air!
[21:14] <DanaG> Watch me perform an impression of Flash:
[21:14] <DanaG> *segfault*
[21:14] <gaminggeek> I dont see why we even need pulse
[21:15] <DanaG> *segfault*
[21:15] <oxigen> is Ubuntu Brainstorm available for download like is MediaWiki?
[21:15] <e\ectro_> sarah____: the macbook air is so sexy though
[21:15] <tanner_> sarah____: you just have to decide if you want looks, or functionality
[21:15] <gaminggeek> all it does atm is add problems
[21:15] <mneptok> move xig. for great justice.
[21:15] <gaminggeek> not ready for prime time IMHO
[21:15] <sarah____> right, the air is sexy, but with only 1 USB port, i cant have my ipod or my mouse at the same time
[21:15] <DanaG> Pulse is sweet if you have multiple audio devices.
[21:15] <sarah____> and only a 60gb harddrive, thats too small
[21:15] <RAOF> DanaG: I thought libflashsupport was now a dependency of flashplugin-nonfree?
[21:15] <e\ectro_> sarah____: USB hub
[21:15] <sarah____> but i think you can get an external harddrive
[21:15] <Peter-> No-one cant help me on Urban Terror problem?
[21:16] <sarah____> USB hub?
[21:16] <tanner_> sarah____: dont forget, the air's port is obfuscated, so you may have problems connecting devices
[21:16] <poseidon> How do I edit the appearance of the menus, etc?  I don't want everything to be brownish orange, I prefer more of a blue.  Is there a way I can do this?
[21:16] <DanaG> Hmm, maybe it is, but the GUI tools are missing.
[21:16] <tanner_> e\ectro_: defeats the point of mobility having to carry a hub ;)
[21:16] <RAOF> DanaG: Yeah, that's true.
[21:16] <sarah____> e\ectro_ good idea, totally forgot about the hub
[21:16] <e\ectro_> sarah____: yeah, http://catalog.belkin.com/IWCatSectionView.process?Section_Id=205966
[21:16] <RAOF> Or you could just have a bluetooth mouse, of course.
[21:16] <e\ectro_> ;)
[21:16] <mneptok> sarah____: are you looking for a nicely portable laptop? or specifically a UMPC?
[21:16] <DanaG> And if PulseAudio crashes, then it can make media player apps start to rapidly DESTROY ALL MEMORY.
[21:17] <DanaG> s/DESTROY/eat/
[21:17] <RAOF> DanaG: Oh, _that's_ what causes it?
[21:17] <RAOF> :)
[21:17] <sarah____> lightly portable, and functional
[21:17] <sarah____> and dont forget about looks! :)
[21:17] <gaminggeek> ok I have libflashplayer
[21:17] <e\ectro_> sarah____: macbook air it is ;)
[21:17] <DanaG> I think HP looks cool.
[21:17] <sarah____> haha
[21:17] <sarah____> although, it will set me back a few weeks paycheck!
[21:17] <DanaG> I'm going to get the 15" DTR HP business one.
[21:17] <mneptok> sarah____: i can higly recommend the Lenovo V200. i have one, and love it. and i know a thing or two about Ubuntu and hardware. :)
[21:17] <DanaG> And I'll get a case sticker of the Heron!
[21:18] <e\ectro_> sarah____: thats what boyfriends / husbands are for
[21:18] <sarah____> haha lol
[21:18] <gaminggeek> but flash/paulse doesnt like it if I have banshee open at the same time as a flash video is playing
[21:18] <sarah____> e\ectro_ wanna pay for mine? jk
[21:18] <e\ectro_> sarah____: my wife is the same way, just shoes and bags
[21:18] <tanner_> O.o @ e\ectro_
[21:18] <sarah____> e\ectro_ do you know if the air will be replaced by a newer one anytime soon? kinda like with all those ipods/iphones each were replaced with a better model
[21:19] <Adys> What's the difference between uninterruptile and running status for processes?
[21:19] <e\ectro_> sarah____: its inevitable
[21:19] <sarah____> true
[21:19] <e\ectro_> sarah____: only question is when..
[21:19] <sarah____> yup
[21:19] <sarah____> i remmber the iphone
[21:19] <RAOF> Adys: Uninterruptible often means "blocking in the kernel", IE: it's not possible for this process to recieve a signal.
[21:19] <e\ectro_> sarah____: right now I'd rather have the android
[21:19] <Adys> aight
[21:19] <sarah____> was around $4-500 and then, it dropped around $200?
[21:20] <Assid> heya
[21:22]  * DanaG admits: he does like HP a little bit too much (minorly fanboyish, but not like the "omg they can do no wrong" Apple fanboys).
[21:23] <tanner_> haha
[21:24] <orvokki> Hmm, I suppose I could've checked for nvidia-glx-new bugs before trying out Hardy. ;>
[21:24] <tanner_> its always interesting seeing the apple fanboys go crazy on places like.. digg.com, engadget, etc
[21:26] <Gupp> hrm i have a problem that i cant enable eth0 for some weird reason
[21:26] <DanaG> I'm more like just somebody who goes "hey, look at this!  hey, look at this!  hey, look at this!  hey, look at this!  " (pointing to different things) perhaps a big annoyingly much.
[21:26] <marlun> How can I disable the use of proprietary grpahics (ATI) drivers from console? I enabled it and now as soon as I come into gnome the screen turns white.
[21:27] <DanaG> Heh, anybody else think this looks like an RROD'd xbox 360?  http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8355585&type=product&id=1177112314432
[21:28] <buttterz> hello
[21:29] <mneptok> marlun: switch to another virtual console and run 'sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg"
[21:29] <caesa1> help! I changed my screen resolution to 1280*1024 upsidedown, and now all I can see is the mouse. How do I change the resolution in a different init?
[21:29] <buttterz> adinc , ping!
[21:32] <buttterz> caesa1 , i don't understand in a different init
[21:33] <Gupp> someone knows how to change mac address so eth0 will be recognized?
[21:33] <Gupp> becouse now it is different from  te .vmx
[21:33] <Gupp> or is the change generated to static enough?
[21:33] <buttterz> caesa1, in xorg.conf you can change your screen resolution if it isn't booting -- otherwise you can run a xconfig type program to reset the configuration
[21:35] <caesa1> buttterz, are you sure? I looked in xorg.conf, but I found nothing related to the resolution, like I usually do
[21:35] <buttterz> thats where it resides -- it has to be there
[21:35] <DanaG> Did you change it just as a user?  Does the login screen work?
[21:35] <DanaG> If so, it's more likely a user preference.
[21:36] <caesa1> here, let me pull it up
[21:36] <buttterz> caesa1 , its in the screen section.....
[21:36] <xopher> How do I like, completely reset my sound / sound card configuration? Cause I can't get my surround/LFE working at all.
[21:36] <caesa1> Section "Screen"
[21:36] <caesa1> 	Identifier	"Default Screen"
[21:36] <caesa1> 	Monitor		"Configured Monitor"
[21:36] <caesa1> 	Device		"Configured Video Device"
[21:36] <caesa1> EndSection
[21:37] <caesa1> that's all that's in the screen section.
[21:37] <caesa1> um, DanaG. I did change it as a user. The login screen does work. I did it through preferences.
[21:38] <DanaG> Hmm, I'll look where it's stored in gconf.
[21:39] <orvokki> Hmm, I seriously hope RC and final will be compatible with nvidia glob even though it's not officially supported by Ubuntu...
[21:40] <buttterz> orvokki , it should be considering its not part of a distrobution
[21:40] <DanaG> this is one place I found some preferences about screen resolution:  /desktop/gnome/screen/
[21:40] <buttterz> you have to authorize their installation and use.
[21:40] <caesa1> thanks, let me check that out.
[21:40] <DanaG> so, gconftool --recursive-unset /desktop/gnome/screen/
[21:41] <DanaG> (not root!)
[21:41] <caesa1> wait, not /desktop.
[21:41] <caesa1> can you tell me the full path?
[21:41] <caesa1> because ~/Desktop doesn't make sense. Why would there be a gnome folder on my desktop?
[21:41] <DanaG> That's the path in gconf.
[21:41] <caesa1> or do you mean ~/gnome/screen
[21:41] <caesa1> oh ok
[21:42] <buttterz> caesa1 , it should be there and change that with a known working resolution
[21:42] <buttterz> default/0/%gconf
[21:42] <buttterz> i mean you have to do this in your flavor of editor
[21:43] <caesa1> ok.
[21:43] <DanaG> gconftool will unset it for you.
[21:43] <DanaG> That'll let it go to defaults.
[21:43] <buttterz> i would set what you know
[21:44] <buttterz> to be known good.
[21:44] <DanaG> yeah, default/0/%gconf is the deepest file.
[21:44] <caesa1> ok, I think I understand your solution DanaG. I need to ask a few questions buttters
[21:45] <caesa1> what exactly is this default/0/%gconf ?
[21:45] <caesa1> is it a file directory, or gconftool directory?
[21:45] <caesa1> or a value to set something
[21:45] <Assid> hey dana
[21:45] <rectec794613> I need help upgrading to hardy
[21:45] <robinson> just did a clean install of unbuntu hardy beta.. Seems as though the HD is not responding. Like the OS stalls a lot..
[21:45] <caesa1> or what?
[21:46] <DanaG> IO scheduler in Hardy seems laggy -- especially when doing gparted.
[21:46] <robinson> running dmesg, i have a lot of segfaults
[21:46] <DanaG> I'm copying an NTFS partition somewhere, and it's majorly bogging down the rest of the system.
[21:46] <robinson> possibly just a bad installatin?
[21:46] <h3sp4wn> DanaG: switch to another then
[21:46] <rectec794613> I NEED HELP WITH UPGRADING TO HARDY
[21:46] <caesa1> well, I'm going to try that. I'll be back.
[21:46] <buttterz> rectec794613 , then i would say you shouldn't my friend
[21:46] <h3sp4wn> If you have working ncq then deadline is pretty good
[21:46] <buttterz> please don't yell.
[21:47] <DanaG> Switch to another?  IO scheduler?  How?
[21:47] <rectec794613> ?
[21:47] <h3sp4wn> Its in /sys
[21:47] <DanaG> My 7k200-200 has NCQ, I believe.
[21:47] <DanaG> The USB Fujitsu.... I haven't a clue.
[21:47] <h3sp4wn> /sys/block/sd?/queue/scheduler
[21:48] <h3sp4wn> the file has the choices in
[21:48] <rectec794613> i cant get thru the upgrade
[21:48] <rectec794613> its stuck
[21:48] <h3sp4wn> If you have a high quality scsi or fc setup then noop is the best
[21:48] <DanaG> noop anticipatory deadline [cfq]  -- default on both.
[21:48] <buttterz> rectec794613 , ok -- whats the deal...
[21:49] <DanaG> What are the other choices?
[21:49] <lime4x4> anyone here running kde4 on hardy? Does it still use a xorg file yet for screen positions and such?
[21:49] <rectec794613> its stuck on installing this program called "unzip"
[21:50] <sourcemaker>  will the next kubuntu release support more than one encrypted partitions?
[21:50] <h3sp4wn> DanaG: Well you are using cfq
[21:50] <h3sp4wn> DanaG: You can use noop, anticipatory or deadline
[21:50] <h3sp4wn> I wouldn't use anticipatory (drops throughput alot)
[21:51] <h3sp4wn> noop probably not good except on high end disks
[21:51] <DanaG> Heh, one of my instances of folding@home was still running.
[21:51] <h3sp4wn> deadline maybe
[21:51] <DanaG> Another thing that helped was schedtool-ing ntfsclone to SCHED_BULK or SCHED_IDLEPRIO
[21:52] <rectec794613> its stuck on installing this program called "unzip"
[21:52] <buttterz> rectec794613 , ok -- i mean i need more information than that
[21:52] <DanaG> Hmm, seems like stopping that may have been enough already.
[21:52] <buttterz> rectec794613 , is this an important system that hasn't been backed up??
[21:52] <rectec794613> it hasnt benn backed up
[21:52] <rectec794613> *been
[21:52] <buttterz> rectec794613 , and i'm assuming this is your main computer at home as well...
[21:53] <rectec794613> yes
[21:53] <buttterz> well first you shouldn't have installed a beta then haha -- but can you crap the upgrade and start over with it?
[21:53] <buttterz> or is it hardlocked
[21:53] <sourcemaker> can I use a encrypted file system for more then 1 partition? How does it work when starting kubuntu? Will I be asked for 2 or more passphrase?
[21:53] <buttterz> sourcemaker , what? are you using truecrypt
[21:53] <rectec794613> i can restart the copm but it will probably mess it up
[21:54] <rectec794613> *comp
[21:54] <buttterz> rectec794613 , it certainly will -- you need to try to restart the upgrade within now with the live cd in -- there is no real way to do this except halt the current if you are SURE its not moving anymore and restart the upgrade...
[21:54] <sourcemaker> buttterz: no... luks...
[21:55] <sourcemaker> buttterz: I have installed the kubuntu beta for testing
[21:56] <buttterz> sourcemaker , ok i don't understand what you are asking right now
[21:56] <rectec794613> I'm not so sure about this...
[21:57] <Dr_willis> Im not paranoid enough to use an encrypted filesystem. :)
[21:57] <buttterz> rectec794613 , then let it sit and your computer will stay the way it is -- this is just a bad situation for you -- there is no way really to resolve it without breaking the install process if its halted entirely
[21:57]  * DanaG wonders how large of a drive he would need to keep at least two or three snapshots of a 200GB hard drive.
[21:58] <rectec794613> ok
[21:58] <DanaG> I'd be using OS-specific backup things for each of Windows, Linux, and OS ("10, not X").
[21:58] <rectec794613> i'll see what i can do
[21:58] <rectec794613> btw its already halfway through
[21:58] <DanaG> One big thing I'd want in a backup drive: firewire.
[21:58] <DanaG> USB is like this:  "DMA?  Durrrh, never heard of it."
[21:59] <sourcemaker> buttterz: the new installer of the kubuntu supports to use an encrypted file system... but I use different patitions for my user data... and os data... how does this work? I have then 1 passphrase for each patition? right?
[21:59] <buttterz> sourcemaker , yes.
[21:59] <buttterz> you can make them the same though
[22:00] <buttterz> are you in the NSA haha
[22:00] <robinson> lime4x4: anyone answer you yet? stepped away for a minute
[22:00] <sourcemaker> buttterz: sure :-)
[22:00] <buttterz> i'm just kidding
[22:02] <buttterz> sourcemaker , then it would seem if you are NSA the more passwords the better encrypt away!!!
[22:06] <bluefoxx> 8.04 is sweet!
[22:07] <buttterz> haha you guys should start messing with andrew morton kernels not just new versions of ubuntu
[22:08] <sourcemaker> buttterz: Well...   Thanks, h3sp4wn.
[22:13] <jin> _Angelus_: that's how the new kernel works it seems
[22:13] <_Angelus_> :/
[22:13] <_Angelus_> reeding any drive as sata? LoL
[22:13] <jin> _Angelus_: it's just the naming I think
[22:14] <_Angelus_> nope
[22:14] <_Angelus_> when i went to configure LVM during install
[22:14] <_Angelus_> it said something like
[22:14] <_Angelus_> SATA bla bla bla ATA bla bla
[22:14] <_Angelus_> :/
[22:15] <AzureSkies> lol
[22:15] <lime4x4> Robinson no
[22:16] <bluefoxx> has anyone had luck booting from a SCSI drive using an adaptec adaptor?
[22:16] <_Angelus_> bluefoxx,  no , but i had a (luck?) getting my ATA recocnizze as SCSI or SATA
[22:16] <_Angelus_> lol
[22:17] <bluefoxx> lol
[22:17] <bluefoxx> brb[booting friends comp into winblows]
[22:17] <h3sp4wn> bluefoxx: What is the issue
[22:18] <orvokki> Now, that was interesting.
[22:18] <caesa1> hurrah, it works! Thanks DanaG and buttterz. There are still some bugs, so I may ask you questions later. But at least I can function.
[22:18] <bluefoxx> my second computer wont boot off of the 50 pin scsi drive
[22:19] <orvokki> Any ideas on how to get Gnome bars back except killing X session?
[22:19] <orvokki> I seem to have slightly crashed this.
[22:19] <bluefoxx> it boots partly then hangs saying "grub" and lights the floppy  light
[22:19] <bluefoxx> brb
[22:20] <orvokki> Ah, whatever. I can afford killing it, I think.
[22:27] <nextstep> Hello everyone I am having an issue with my wireless network being locked to 1mb ... can anyone help ?
[22:30] <DanaG> All ATA drivers are now using the SCSI subsystem.
[22:32] <dirk__> exit
[22:33] <axisys> is there a way I can get tv listing in cli ?
[22:34] <axisys> instead of visiting lets say tv.yahoo.com
[22:40] <nextstep> can anyone help with a wireless issue in hardy ?
[22:43] <robinson> hey. I was here just a bit ago whining about Kubuntu Hardy Beta w/KDE4 running VERY slow. I had segfaults for scim-ridge showing under dmesg.
[22:43] <robinson> Fixed it by installing "scim"
[22:43] <robinson> not sure what that does, but it is runny smooth as silk now
[22:44] <robinson> Hope this helps someone
[22:44] <AnswerGuy> scim is the "simple Chinese input method"
[22:44] <robinson> freaky.. So, really, nothing scim needs to even be installed?
[22:45] <robinson> wonder why scim-bridge was segfaulting in the first place
[22:45] <AnswerGuy> Use for i18n of Chinese (and other Asian languages such as Korean, and Japanese)
[22:45] <DanaG> simple _common_
[22:45] <DanaG> not just Chinese.
[22:45] <SilverDawn> Hey all, Ive had this issue a billion times but i just dont remember how to fix it, With compiz i have no boarders on the windows and i cant use my terminal (Nvidia gfxcard)
[22:45] <robinson> whatever the case may be, works now
[22:45] <DanaG> IT can also do Latex:
[22:45] <AnswerGuy> Oops, sorry, my bad.  "common"
[22:45] <DanaG> r∠θ    jωL   ℜ + ℑ
[22:45] <DanaG> See?  Nifty.
[22:46] <SilverDawn> Its like the window decorator isnt starting
[22:46] <robinson> any idea why this package was causing my system to creep like the dead?
[22:46] <robinson> in Alpha 6 release, by default, some scim keyboard icon was in the taskbar, and it worked fine. IN Beta 1, this icon is not present. Whatever package i installed place the icon back, and now the laptop works
[22:47] <AnswerGuy> Well, if the "scim-ridge" was depending on talking to the scim process (server/daemon) ...
[22:47] <AnswerGuy> Then it stands to reason that its constant efforts to connect to it (via some UNIX domain socket, for example) might make input very choppy
[22:48] <AnswerGuy> Since it's a keyboard input processor that would be very bad.
[22:48] <SilverDawn> Anyone at all
[22:48] <nextstep> wtb wireless that works in Hardy ..lol
[22:48] <SilverDawn> Having a window decorator is definitly nice....
[22:48] <robinson> understand.
[22:48] <clusty> hey
[22:49] <AnswerGuy> Apparently it's "smart common input method" BTW
[22:49] <cyclonut> nextstep, intel or broadcom wifi?
[22:49] <robinson> nother question, then: in KDE4, how do i open a root file manager?
[22:49] <clusty> i am having problems with my webcam in hardy. it used to work with the uvcvideo driver
[22:49] <nosrednaekim> robinson: kdesudo dolphin from a krunner will do
[22:49] <clusty> now not even the self compiled mod wont work
[22:49] <clusty> anyone got it running?
[22:50] <robinson> mosrednaekim: i get an error that says "command not found!"
[22:50] <robinson> it worked fine in KDE 3.5.9
[22:50] <robinson> may just be something broken... it is a beta. afterall
[22:50] <nosrednaekim> robinson: ah... kdesudo seems to be kde3 only.... try kdesu dolphin
[22:51] <robinson> same thing
[22:51] <robinson> in the package manager, kdesudo-kde4 is installed, though
[22:51] <nosrednaekim> robinson: run a "dpkg -L kdesudo-kde4" to see what files that package installs
[22:52] <robinson> kdesudo is listed as a binary
[22:52] <robinson> go figure
[22:53] <nosrednaekim> robinson: whats the path to it?
[22:53] <nosrednaekim>  /usr/lib/kde4/bin/kdesudo?
[22:53] <robinson> yes
[22:54] <robinson> let me try with the full path and see what happens
[22:54] <dandel> hmm is it me or is firefox2 package not working right... it keeps launching firefox 3.0 only.
[22:54] <nosrednaekim> robinson: try running "kdesudo dolphin" from a konsole instead of a krunner
[22:55] <robinson> from konsole, i get a GUI popup that states "command not found!" No extra output in the konsole
[22:55] <nosrednaekim> robinson: whats full path do? same thing?
[22:56] <robinson> yes
[22:56] <nosrednaekim> robinson: what about "kdesudo konqueror"
[22:57] <robinson> same thing with konqueror
[22:58] <robinson> side note: command to make a symbolic link for /usr/lib/firefox-3.0b4 pointing to location /usr/lib/mozilla/pugins
[22:58] <nosrednaekim> ln -sf source destination
[22:59] <robinson> thank you
[23:03] <robinson> has there been any progress on getting GTK applications "pretty" in KDE4 yet?
[23:05] <nosrednaekim> robinson: yeah... we are working on it
[23:05] <robinson> You're a dev?
[23:05] <nosrednaekim> yep
[23:05] <nosrednaekim> though I'm not working on that specific thing
[23:05] <robinson> boy, do i feel special! Thank you for working with me on the dolphin thing!
[23:06] <nosrednaekim> huh... not like I helped any <_<
[23:06] <robinson> what is your area of expertise?
[23:06] <robinson> hey, much better response that i would have gotten from microsoft :)
[23:06] <nosrednaekim> I work on configuration apps... working on the printer config app right now.
[23:06] <robinson> do you have any information on why i cannot adjust the time and date?
[23:07] <nosrednaekim> robinson: BTW... its not reccomended... but if you must run dolphin as root, give it a shot with sudo.
[23:07] <robinson> I already moved the files i wanted using the konsole, but thanks
[23:07] <robinson> Actually, using the tip you gave me for the sym link
[23:08] <nosrednaekim> robinson: and file a bug on that too.
[23:08] <robinson> I wanted to map firefox 3 plugins to another location where the plugins seem to be installing. works fine
[23:08] <robinson> will do, gimme a few seconds
[23:10] <robinson> what do i need to put as the package name, or shall i just put "i dont know"
[23:10] <robinson> dolphin-kde4, i assume
[23:10] <nosrednaekim> kdesudo-kde4
[23:10] <robinson> oops, thanks
[23:12] <twb> Hi, is there an ETA for new desktop-i386.iso in http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/releases/hardy/ ?  If so, what is it?
[23:12] <twb> (The alpha images have disappeared.)
[23:12] <robinson> got it:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdesudo-kde4/+bug/206863
[23:12] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 206863 in kdesudo-kde4 "Kubuntu Hardy KDE4 - unable to open a root file manager" [Undecided,New]
[23:14] <nosrednaekim> robinson: great
[23:16] <marlun> How come it is so slow when controlling a computer through Vinagre even though I'm using it locally on a fast line? Window's Remote Desktop is a lot faster.
[23:18] <twb> What is vinagre?  An RFB/VNC client?
[23:18] <marlun> twb: yeah it's the new vnc client in HH.
[23:19] <DanaG> ugh, ntfsclone seems to be taking a ludicrously long time.  It's getting quite horrible (1-digit MB/sec) throughput.
[23:19] <DanaG> dd_rescue (for the sake of not having to choose block size as with dd) gets at least 22 megabytes per second.
[23:19] <googlah> Hi, was told to change to 2.6.24-11 to get the sound to work. anyone know where I could find this package?
[23:20] <DanaG> -12 has been fixed for sound, actually.  You just need the corresponding linux-ubuntu-modules package.
[23:20] <twb> marlun: try enabling JPEG compression.
[23:20] <robinson> in KDE4 systemsettings, where is the "Administrator" button so things can be chagned?
[23:21] <googlah> Oh, I see. Well, I have the Intel HDA HD Audio on my motherboard. what could the corresponding ubuntu-module package name be_
[23:21] <DanaG> linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.24-12-generic
[23:21] <marlun> twb: how? can't find any settings dialog in Vinagre...
[23:21] <twb> marlun: I don't know; I don't use GUIs.
[23:21] <googlah> could try it
[23:21] <googlah> thanks DanaG.
[23:21] <twb> marlun: I think it's a choice the (VNC) client requests, rather than being set on the server.
[23:22] <nosrednaekim> robinson: to tell you the truth, I don't know.
[23:22] <nosrednaekim> robinson: what are you trying to change?
[23:22] <googlah> DanaG: Was already installed.. but doesn't seem to work anyway.
[23:23] <DanaG> Odd.  Anything in dmesg relating to sound?
[23:23] <Agrajag-> g'day, i'm having trouble with my keypad, i've got a standard US 105 key keyboard which is selected in keyboard prefs, but the keypad doesn't seem to work in any apps. xev reports the keypresses and has the KeyPress/KeyRelease events, and gives "XLookupString gives 1 bytes: (39) "9"" which looks correct (when i press the keypad 9)
[23:24] <TuTUXG_> sweet, suspend finally works on my t61p
[23:25] <googlah> DanaG: Looks good there.
[23:25] <DanaG> Hmm.  Are the sound modules at least loaded?
[23:26] <googlah> I guess so, any clue how to check it out?
[23:27] <robinson> nosrednaekim: sorry , got distracted and found a related bug report that may also help with the kdesudo issue.. Check this out: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdebase-workspace/+bug/184491
[23:27] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 184491 in kdebase-workspace "[KDE 4] Cannot get admin privileges in KDE4.0 System settings (Date/Time, Login Manager)" [Low,Confirmed]
[23:28] <DanaG> Hmm, lsmod | grep snd   -- don't paste it; just look if anything seemse relevant.
[23:28] <jessica_> hi dose anyone know how to control my fan speed sins putting hardy on my fans running at low speed and my laptop is getting very hot
[23:28] <mneptok> Agrajag-: numlock?
[23:29] <googlah> Yeah, all is there DanaG. The sound control says HDA Intel too, just that I have no sound
[23:30] <DanaG> Odd.  Try running alsamixer in the console and experimenting with the various sliders.  Gnome's volume control hides most controls by default.
[23:30] <Agrajag-> mneptok: what about it? was that a question?
[23:31] <Ng> what should I be doing if acpi-support's sleep.sh works, but pm-suspend doesn't?
[23:31] <mneptok> Agrajag-: yes, is numlock on?
[23:31] <jessica_> how can i control my fan speed
[23:31] <jessica_> ?
[23:32] <mneptok> Agrajag-: if not, that's why the numpad does not output Arabic numerals
[23:32] <googlah> DanaG: Okay, I will try do so. That layout was cool, btw. :)
[23:32] <Agrajag-> mneptok: clearly it is on, as xev reports the XLookupString, as i already said.
[23:32] <DanaG> Layout?
[23:34] <googlah> The command line design/layout for alsa-mixer.
[23:34] <DanaG> aah.
[23:36] <Agrajag-> eh.. i figured it out. "Allow to control the pointer using the keyboard" was ticked. i wouldn't have ticked it, something must've happened during the dist-upgrade i guess.. weird.
[23:36] <Agrajag`> Agrajag-, so numlock works like normal and all the other keys are non-functional?
[23:37] <nosrednaekim> robinson: apparently, its a upstream bug
[23:38] <jessica_> how can i change my fan speed
[23:39] <SilverDawn> can anyone here name a good audio player
[23:39] <SilverDawn> I dont know much about graphical ones i always just used mpd and xmms2, But now im trying desktops out :P
[23:40] <TuTUXG_> !mp3
[23:40] <ubotu> For multimedia issues, this page has useful information: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats - See also http://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/common-tasks-chap.html - But please use free formats if you can: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FreeFormats
[23:40] <SilverDawn> No issues
[23:40] <TuTUXG_> !xmms
[23:40] <SilverDawn> Just lookin a nice player
[23:40] <ubotu> Audio (Ogg, MP3...) players: Audacious, Banshee, Beep Media Player, Listen, Quod Libet, Rhythmbox, Exaile, XMMS (GTK/Gnome based) and Amarok, JuK (Qt/KDE based).  Video players: Totem, Xine, MPlayer, VLC, Kaffeine - See also !codecs
[23:40] <jessica_> dose anyone know about chaning my fan speed
[23:40] <rexy_> fancontrol
[23:40] <jessica_> ok thanks
[23:40] <rexy_> warning though
[23:40] <rexy_> know what you are doing, it will happily shutdown your fan if you configure it wrong
[23:41] <jessica_> ok thanks
[23:41] <jessica_> ill be cearful
[23:42] <DanaG> Laptop fans actually rarely are controllable.
[23:42] <DanaG> What brand laptop?
[23:42] <rexy_> hmm yeah laptops are a different matter, my dell does it automaticly
[23:43] <rexy_> whats the advantage of pulseaudio(vs using just alsa or esd/arts
[23:45] <RAOF> rexy_: I get to stream whatever audio I like over to my server connected to a stereo, rather than the anaemic lappy speakers.
[23:46] <rexy_> heu that's not new r unique to pulse though
[23:47] <RAOF> True.  You could _kinda_ do that with ESD.
[23:47] <DanaG> Ugh, ntfsclone is giving me only 6 megabytes per second.  What's up with that?  It's pathetic!
[23:50] <hischild> could i please get a hand in getting my atheros 5007EG working?
[23:51] <DanaG> 60GB / (4 MB/sec) = 4.3 hours.  Ridiculous.
[23:51] <hischild> scrap that request, it's fixed
[23:51] <DanaG> And ntfsclone doesn't even give an indication of progress.
[23:54] <plus_M> Hi, I'm trying out Kubuntu KDE 4.0 8.04 beta in virtualbox, but I can't seem to get the resolution above 800x600.  I explicitly gave some available resolutions in xorg.conf, but it doesn't seem to be accepting them
[23:54] <bhsx> i have everything set in power management for brightest display, but i still can barely read my laptop screen....  anyone know how to go in and 'manually' up the brightness?
[23:54] <bhsx> fn +f9/10 doesn't work
[23:54] <drsalton> i have a similar problem.. my brightness gets darker as I turn it up, and brighter as I turn it down
[23:55] <bhsx> i have to use the ati-supplied driver settings in windows
[23:57] <hmuller> Where does gnome-mouse-properties store it's settings?


[16:48] <zaki> hey pavlushka
[16:48] <zaki> how are you doing ?
[16:57] <pavlushka> zaki: I am good, my serial port is working, I can read the serial output from my Laptop
[16:58] <pavlushka> zaki: Hope I can finish my coreboot project successfully and soon
[17:04] <zaki> pavlushka, cool. good luck with that
[17:05] <pavlushka> zaki: ty
[17:06] <zaki> pavlushka, m°C mean what ?
[17:06] <zaki> I mean whats with that m
[17:06] <zaki> can't find
[17:06] <pavlushka> zaki: where and in which respect?
[17:07] <zaki> like 56,644 m°C
[17:07] <zaki> hardware temperature sensor reading
[17:22] <pavlushka> zaki: what was the command?
[17:24] <zaki> pavlushka, it's not from the command
[17:24] <pavlushka> zaki: in that case, can you provide screenshot?
[17:24] <zaki> automatic SNMP sensor reading output
[17:26] <zaki> the unit is set to m°C
[17:31] <zaki> pavlushka, https://imgur.com/a/MC9Q3wa
[17:31] <zaki> check this
[17:33] <zaki> wondering what is m degree Celsius :3
[17:34] <u-la-la> [ Imgur: The magic of the Internet ] - imgur.com
[17:37] <pavlushka> zaki: Sorry no idea, may be someone in #ubuntu can tell
[17:38] <zaki> pavlushka, ok will tell you if I find out.
[17:38] <pavlushka> zaki: sure
[20:55] <LjL> strange enough that *some* of the values do show just "°C" O.o


[05:46] <snadge> can i remotely update my pc at work via console / ssh?
[05:46] <snadge> im aware you can just use update-manager -c
[05:46] <snadge> then there's also the old school way of .. updating sources.list and just doing an apt-get update ; apt-get dist-upgrade
[08:27] <deraffenarsch> IS IT OUT!!!!!!!!!!
[08:33] <flocculant> not yet - late October sometime
[09:15] <Ian_Corne> two days of no updatss :(
[09:24] <deraffenarsch> why
[09:24] <deraffenarsch> ???
[09:24] <deraffenarsch> two days no updates?
[09:35] <Ian_Corne> because it's been released :p
[10:06] <Ian_Corne> is there a special channel for unity8?
[13:02] <nedstark> http://www.infoworld.com/article/3060246/security/ubuntu-snap-doesnt-have-the-security-issue-x11-does.html
[13:02] <nedstark> X11 is insecure when used with Snap applications according to this
[13:22] <daed> nedstark: hey
[13:22] <nedstark> hello
[13:23] <daed> nedstark: using gnome3 natively now... all thanks to you
[13:23] <daed> absolutely superior to unity :)
[13:23] <daed> no 2-monitor issues
[13:24] <nedstark> daed: i used to have screen tearing until i switched to gnome 3 and its derivative cinnamon (from a ppa).
[13:24] <daed> nedstark: i had extreme screen tearing in chrome/firefox in xfce
[13:25] <daed> no issues in gnome3
[13:25] <daed> i spent like 2 hours tweaking chrome settings, rendering options/flags/etc... nothing helped
[13:25] <daed> tweaked xfce's compositor
[13:25] <daed> ultimately it just sucked
[13:25] <nedstark> some say you can fix it switching to compton in xfce, but it persisted for me
[13:26] <daed> nedstark: best part is expose style functionality exists in gnome3 by default with a hot corner
[13:26] <daed> i literally didn't have to tweak anything
[13:27] <daed> though i'm still going through the tweak tool
[13:27] <nedstark> once you tweak it, it's pretty good, assuming you don't prefer a task bar
[13:27] <daed> i do not prefer a task bar, i prefer hot corner window expose
[13:28] <nedstark> cinnamon has the same kind of hot corner, except desktop search and app menu are accessed through the menu button at the bottom
[13:28] <daed> i also prefer launching things through launchy or alfred type apps
[13:28] <nedstark> its a fork of gnome 3
[13:28] <daed> alt-space
[13:28] <daed> then i can type stuff in
[13:28] <daed> on demand
[13:28] <daed> launch/search/etc
[13:29] <nedstark> the gnome search can look for a lot more than apps too
[13:30] <daed> where's gnome search?
[13:30] <nedstark> when you use the hot corner, it appears in the top center of the screen, you just start typing into it
[13:30] <daed> oh that
[13:30] <daed> i wonder if there's a way to configure to trigger it with alt-space
[13:32] <nedstark> probably, they might know on #ubuntu-gnome or #gnome
[13:33] <nedstark> you can access search using the super (windows) key
[13:35] <daed> hmm, doesn't work for me
[13:40] <nedstark> https://wiki.gnome.org/Gnome3CheatSheet
[13:41] <nedstark> i'm not sure why that key wouldn't work, maybe the gnome guys would know


[00:35] <veebers> wallyworld: I'm just about to head out for lunch, but I notice when running the grant/revoke test that the outpu of list-users seems to have changed again
[00:35] <veebers> I don't see display-name for users that are added in the output
[00:35] <wallyworld> display name is only displayed if there is one
[00:36] <wallyworld> extrernal users don't have a display name
[00:36] <wallyworld> otherwise the output is filled with empty attributes
[00:36] <wallyworld> the test should not be fragile though to break on such changes
[00:36] <wallyworld> it needs simply to parse the json or yaml
[00:37] <wallyworld> whether display name attribute is in the output should be immaterial
[00:37] <wallyworld> the parsed data will be the same
[00:37] <veebers> wallyworld: To be clear  it's expected to not show an empty display name?
[00:38] <wallyworld> in which type of output? json? yaml? tabular?
[00:38] <wallyworld> for json or yaml, it is immaterial whther empty displyaname is there or not, and the test should not depend on it
[00:39] <wallyworld> the parsed data is the same either way
[00:41] <veebers> wallyworld: json output, currently the test compares predefined datastructures against the resulting output.
[00:42] <veebers> I'm confident that this was working with the current assumptions (i.e. display-name: "") on Friday, is this a recent change?
[00:42] <wallyworld> yeah, can't recall exactly when it landed
[00:43] <veebers> wallyworld: Ok. I'll make the change to the test to not expect display-name when not set
[00:43] <wallyworld> that will be good, thanks
[01:40] <thumper> veebers: ping me when you are back
[01:50] <veebers> thumper: hey o/
[01:50] <thumper> veebers: hey ehy
[01:50] <veebers> thumper: sorry I left for the gym later than originally intended
[01:50] <thumper> that's fine
[01:50] <thumper> hangout?
[01:51] <veebers> sure thign
[01:51] <veebers> thumper: which one/
[01:52] <thumper> veebers: https://hangouts.google.com/hangouts/_/canonical.com/lxd?v=1471979335&clid=FD6B1EDF18B181C1&authuser=0
[01:52] <veebers> omw
[02:21] <veebers> wallyworld: would it take you less then 2 minutes to find the commit id for when empty display name was removed from juju output? Would be nice to include in the MP for this test :-)
[02:22] <wallyworld> probably, i'll look
[02:26] <wallyworld> veebers: it also omits last login time and date create if empty, but those will only be empty for external users. i assume the CI tests are not doing anything with eternal users yet (but they should at some point) edc0b5324b2a110eb838852f2c7bc5f26d627efd
[02:28] <veebers> wallyworld: awesome thanks. Yeah already ignores login/date stuff. We have a task for the external testing (that needs some fleshing out)
[02:28] <wallyworld> great
[02:31] <thumper> menn0: with you in a minute
[02:32] <menn0> ok
[02:33] <wallyworld> menn0: you going to add QA steps to your PR?
[02:33] <menn0> wallyworld: yes, working on that now
[02:33] <wallyworld> ok, awesome
[02:33] <menn0> wallyworld: turns out it's harder to QA than I realised
[02:33] <wallyworld> i can imagine
[02:45] <veebers> thumper: just saw the email response. I should be able to get the db dump, but not sure about access, that's more of a sinzui,balloons,tbaumann thing
[02:46] <thumper> veebers: just replied, apt install tmate
[02:46] <thumper> really cool
[02:47] <veebers> thumper: it's not really my machine to install or give access too :-\
[02:47] <veebers> thumper: although we can always ask for forgiveness
[02:51] <menn0> wallyworld: trying to do the QA steps for this PR has made me realise that I probably need to do the prechecks before waiting for agents to report that they're in readonly mode
[02:52] <wallyworld> hmmm, seems reasonable
[02:52] <menn0> wallyworld: otherwise when you have machines that are being provisioned or down, they'll never report that they're in readonly mode and it takes 15 mins before the migration is aborted
[02:53] <wallyworld> ouch
[02:53] <menn0> wallyworld: so ignore my PR for now. I'm going to do another one which swaps the phases around
[02:53] <wallyworld> i haven't read the PR yet :-)
[02:54] <menn0> wallyworld: ok np. that PR won't actually change, but it'll be easier to QA once I swap the phases
[02:54] <wallyworld> sgtm
[03:23] <thumper> menn0: big problem was out of date lxd container
[03:23] <thumper> had an old lxd package
[03:23] <thumper> which blocked on things
[03:23] <thumper> updating containers fixed the CI test
[03:23] <menn0> thumper: how did you update the containers?
[03:24] <thumper> apt update && apt upgrade
[03:25] <wallyworld> thumper: why the fark wouldn't CI ensure it pulled the latest packages to test with ie what our customers are actually going to use?
[03:25] <thumper> wallyworld: these are long standing lxd machines that are just stopped / started for the ci tests
[03:25] <thumper> they just got out of date
[03:26] <wallyworld> hmpf. they should be kept up to date :-)
[03:26] <thumper> yes, they should
[03:42] <natefinch> wallyworld: I have some questions about the certupdater, got few minutes?
[03:42] <wallyworld> ok
[03:43] <natefinch> wallyworld: so, the certupdater has a watcher that watches the addresses of the machine it's on.... which seem to be different than the addresses in APIHostPorts.... shouldn't it watch APIHostPorts?
[03:44] <wallyworld> not sure tbh. it needs to update the cert SAN list with whatever wget on the instance nodes connects back to
[03:44] <wallyworld> i can't remember where wget gets it's info from
[03:45] <wallyworld> how is APIHostPors different to the machine addresses?
[03:45] <natefinch> wallyworld: the issue seems to be that the machine's list of addresses for manual provider don't include the cloud-local address, but the APIHostPorts does include that address
[03:45] <natefinch> wallyworld: I guess the other question is.. where does the machine's address list get populated?
[03:46] <wallyworld> i know there's an instance poller on clouds
[03:46] <wallyworld> and i think there's somewhere else that queries any machine NICs
[03:48] <wallyworld> natefinch: i looked at the code - it does use apihost ports initially
[03:48] <natefinch> wallyworld: yeah, the apihostports initially don't have the cloud-local, but they get updated
[03:49] <wallyworld> so why wouldn't the updated addresses get populated in the machine addresses
[03:49] <natefinch> not sure if that's a race condition or what, but they get updated with cloud local later... but since the certupdater isn't watching apihostports, it doesn't get the new address
[03:49] <natefinch> good question.  I don't know
[03:49] <wallyworld> i think the assumption is that they would. i'd have to go through the code to see what's happening
[03:50] <wallyworld> trace what is updaing apihostports
[03:52] <natefinch> ok, I'll try that and see why it's not also updating the machine addresses
[03:54] <wallyworld> that's a good starting point
[04:43] <natefinch> it's turtles all the way down :/
[04:50] <thumper> menn0: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/23106006/
[04:50]  * thumper sighs
[04:50] <thumper> menn0:  http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/5552/
[04:51] <thumper> menn0: as discussed, moved the introspection worker out of the engine
[04:53] <menn0> thumper: give me a sec
[04:53] <thumper> no worries
[04:54] <menn0> thumper: swap you: http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/5551/
[04:55] <thumper> ok
[04:55] <menn0> thumper: I was initially going to swap PRECHECK and QUIESCE but then it occurred to me that we didn't actually need both phases
[04:55] <thumper> ok...
[04:56] <menn0> thumper: the prechecks are now just done at the start of the QUIESCE phase, at the same time as the agents are going to readonly mode
[04:56] <thumper> menn0: why all the phase changes from "PRECHECK" to "IMPORT"?
[04:56] <thumper> in the first file
[04:57] <menn0> thumper: because PRECHECK no longer exists. IMPORT is now next phase after QUIESCE
[04:57] <thumper> ok
[04:57] <menn0> thumper: so you didn't mean to show me juju-engine-report ?
[04:57] <menn0> looks pretty useful
[04:57] <thumper> menn0: well, that is in the review QA
[04:57] <thumper> but pasted the wrong buffer
[04:59] <menn0> got it
[05:13] <menn0> thumper: review done. just little things.
[05:14] <thumper> menn0: ta
[05:24] <thumper> menn0: replied, would like your thoughts before I do much else
[05:24] <menn0> thumper: looking
[05:26] <menn0> thumper: where does the contents of introspectionWorkerBashFuncs get put by cloud-init?
[05:29] <menn0> thumper: never mind... I checked myself
[05:34] <menn0> thumper: replies done.
[05:35] <thumper> ta
[05:35]  * thumper is off now
[05:35] <thumper> see y'all tomorrow
[05:37] <menn0> wallyworld, thumper: presence doesn't appear to be working at all... I shut down a machine agent 20 mins ago and it still has a status of "started"
[05:37] <wallyworld> awesome
[05:39] <menn0> wallyworld: it works for unit agents but doesn't appear to work for machines
[05:43] <menn0> I have a terrible theory...
[05:44]  * menn0 checks
[08:13] <wallyworld> axw: if you have a moment, not urgent, i have a PR which tweaks some bootatrap messages http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/5553/
[08:14] <axw> wallyworld: looking
[08:14] <axw> wallyworld: " - juju-b01da0-0 ted"   <- what is ted?
[08:16] <wallyworld> axw: damn. there was some code to move the cursor to start of line line and it looks like a message has changed in length
[08:16] <wallyworld> i'll have to add padding or something
[08:17] <wallyworld> looks like we just got lucky before
[08:17] <wallyworld> i didn't even notice :-)
[08:29] <wallyworld> axw: added padding to width of 40, seems reasonable to me as other messages printed are a bit more than that
[08:29] <wallyworld> other messages during bootstrap i mean
[08:29] <wallyworld> not other messages on that line that is overritten
[08:34] <axw> wallyworld: there are terminal escape codes for clearing lines, but I'm not sure about portability. seems reasonable.
[08:34] <axw> (what you've done; LGTM)
[08:35] <wallyworld> axw: yeah, i was afraid to mess with such things and screw up on windows etc
[08:35] <wallyworld> or when we pipe etc
[12:02] <perrito666> morning
[12:32] <wallyworld> fwereade: you around?
[12:32] <fwereade> wallyworld, o/
[12:33] <wallyworld> hey
[12:33] <wallyworld> fwereade: question for you
[12:33] <fwereade> wallyworld, sure
[12:33] <fwereade> wallyworld, (it's quiet today... uk bank holiday... maybe more?)
[12:35] <wallyworld> i think you were starting to look at refactoring state a bit. perrito666 has an issue where there's the mdel manager facade which has a controller connection, hence it's state has the controller model uuid. but beng a model manager facade, it needs to operate on mulitple models. so the facade needs to use a state with a given model uuid assigned to it so that the correct model uuid is automatocally used with the doc ids. but state.
[12:35] <wallyworld> ForModel() starts all the listeners etc. what's needed is just the newState() bit which constrcuts a state without all the other stuff just to allow collections to be correctly read and written
[12:35] <wallyworld> does that make sense?
[12:36] <fwereade> wallyworld, perrito666: I think the abstraction you are looking for is a state.Database
[12:36] <perrito666> actually we should actually refactor some endpoints, the split of facades into controller or models was a bit careless, some facades needed a bit of split
[12:36] <wallyworld> one option discussed with menno is to use the state pool
[12:37] <wallyworld> i've not come across the state database, will need to look
[12:37] <fwereade> wallyworld, perrito666: in particular if you sometimes want a collection to be global and sometimes not, I think the RTTD is to create databases with different schemas and use those
[12:37] <wallyworld> all that's needed is a state object without all the listener stuff, but which does the model uuid thing
[12:37] <fwereade> wallyworld, perrito666: yes
[12:37] <fwereade> wallyworld, perrito666: that is what Database does
[12:38] <wallyworld> ah ok, that's what we want then :-)
[12:38]  * perrito666 goes reading
[12:38] <perrito666> why didn't I know of this before?
[12:38] <fwereade> wallyworld, perrito666: it's still internal to state but I'm 99% sure it's the piece closest to what you need
[12:38] <wallyworld> if it does what i stat above, then awesome
[12:39] <fwereade> perrito666, not sure, but if you've used allcollections.go the Database is the thing whose operation/structure is defined by it
[12:39] <fwereade> perrito666, well, the database, which happens to implement Database
[12:39] <wallyworld> i'll leave you guys to it, need to go get my son from work
[12:39] <fwereade> wallyworld, o/
[12:40]  * wallyworld the match maker :-)
[12:40] <fwereade> <3
[13:22] <rock__> Hi. I have juju openstack depolyed setup on LXD. Unfortunately I did #juju logout --force. Now I am not able to see #juju status. i tried to do #juju login  but it was asking username and password. In  username and password.  username and password. It has default credentials?
[13:22] <rock__> .
[13:23] <rock__> In .local/share/juju/accounts.yaml is empty
[13:24] <rock__> How can I get my previous setup?
[13:24] <rock__> please help me in this.
[13:51] <mup> Bug #1617526 changed: cmd/juju: no help available for common flags <help> <ui> <juju:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1617526>
[13:51] <mup> Bug #1617602 changed: juju status <service-name> stuck <status> <juju:New> <juju-utils:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1617602>
[13:51] <mup> Bug #1617820 changed: JUJU fails in bootstrapping used with openstack <conjure-up:New> <juju:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1617820>
[14:03] <natefinch> standup for rick's juju core team standup thing  (do we have a standup?)
[14:04] <natefinch> I mean, we do have a standup.. but it's kinda barren
[14:06] <natefinch> oh, public holiday in the UK kinda decimates our standup
[14:15] <beisner> hi juju devs - is there a way to recover the credentials if a user --forces logout before changing the initial account password?  (fyi rock__ ^)
[14:19] <perrito666> beisner: I honestly dont know
[14:19] <beisner> it seems like 'no' given the warning http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/23107425/
[14:53] <rock__> beisner: I got the same as  http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/23107425/. then I ran #juju logout --force.  From that onwards I am not able to see #juju status. And I am not able do #juju login back due to loss of account password.
[14:54] <mup> Bug #1617602 opened: juju status <service-name> stuck <status> <juju-core:Incomplete> <juju-utils:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1617602>
[15:03] <beisner> rock__, right, i think it is expected that you set the password to a known-value before logging out.
[15:04] <rock__> beisner: Now we can't do anything right.
[15:35] <beisner> rock__, as far as i know, the creds are required in order to interact with the existing model
[15:35] <rock__> beisner: OK. thank you.
[15:36] <beisner> rock__, yw.  sorry i don't have a better answer on that.
[15:37] <natefinch> There's probably a way to hack it if you can log into the controller machine and then twiddle with the database directly.  I don't have a concrete list of steps to do that, though
[15:38] <rock__> beisner: It is Ok. You provided me good info.
[15:42] <rock__> When I run #juju status. It was giving : ERROR No controller.  Please either create your own new controller using "juju bootstrap" or connect to another controller that you have been given access to using "juju register".
[15:44] <redir> morning
[18:10] <natefinch> mental note: bootstrapping to a pre-existing machine with manual is faster than even lxd
[19:46] <thumper> morning folks
[20:00] <katco> heya thumper
[20:01] <thumper> katco: morning
[20:13] <alexisb> morning thumper
[20:38] <sinzui> ses_: https://hangouts.google.com/hangouts/_/canonical.com/curtis
[20:48] <natefinch> thumper: is there a way to make loggo print out milliseconds in the timestamp?  it would help when using grep during busy periods in the log
[20:49] <thumper> natefinch: with debug-log, yes
[20:49] <thumper> --ms
[20:49] <thumper> not for the default file writers
[20:49] <thumper> but the logs in the db have full time precision
[20:49] <thumper> and debug-log can now show that
[20:50] <natefinch> thumper: ahh, that's too bad
[20:50] <thumper> actually...
[20:50] <thumper> I added an environment variable for the default logger
[20:50] <thumper> which is to the terminal
[20:50] <thumper> but not for the file writers
[20:51] <natefinch> thumper: this is 1.25... looks like no --ms on debug-log there
[20:52] <thumper> natefinch: export LOGGO_TIME_FORMAT="15:04:05.000"
[20:52] <thumper> natefinch: see if that helps :)
[20:54]  * natefinch just hacks the loggo source...
[20:57] <redir> use the source nate
[20:57] <katco> anyone have an opinion of where this should live? https://github.com/juju/juju/blob/master/cmd/juju/application/store.go#L155-L166
[20:58] <katco> candidates i have found are: github.com/juju/juju/charmstore gopkg.in/juju/charmrepo
[20:58] <thumper> katco: I think it would be nice to have some package that encapsulates juju's interaction with the charmstore
[20:58] <thumper> but no idea where
[20:58] <thumper> perhaps your first choice?
[20:58] <katco> thumper: i think that might be github.com/juju/juju/charmstore?
[20:58] <thumper> but I don't know what is in there now
[20:58] <thumper> seems reasonable to me from a distance :)
[20:59] <katco> thumper: i will consider that an affirmation from a verified expert whose word is ironclad and whom i can blame when this blows up.
[21:01] <thumper> haha
[21:03] <alexisb> thumper, do you ahve time to run through bugs with me?
[21:03] <alexisb> or are you on other tasks
[21:03] <thumper> alexisb: I'm trying to finish off a branch from yesterday
[21:03] <thumper> if you can live without me
[21:03] <alexisb> thumper, sure
[21:49] <perrito666> k running a long test, bbl
[21:57] <alexisb> redir, menn0 did the fix in mgo needed for this bug land yet? : https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju/+bug/1604817
[21:57] <mup> Bug #1604817: Race in mgo Stats implementation <ci> <intermittent-failure> <race-condition> <regression> <unit-tests> <juju:In Progress by reedobrien> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1604817>
[21:57] <redir> alexisb: I haven't seen anything on the upstream PR
[21:57]  * menn0 double checks
[21:58] <menn0> alexisb: nope, no response on that one
[21:58] <alexisb> k
[21:59] <alexisb> wallyworld, is this still a valid bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju/+bug/1612717
[21:59] <mup> Bug #1612717: Pinger facade not implemented on controller websocket connection <juju:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1612717>
[21:59] <wallyworld> not sure, hasn't seen it
[21:59] <wallyworld> probably it could be
[22:00] <wallyworld> seems like fallout from rog's work
[22:02] <alexisb> thanks wallyworld; following up with that team
[22:32] <wallyworld> alexisb: thumper: are we having this meeting?
[23:16] <alexisb> redir, menn0 ping
[23:17] <redir> alexisb: ack
[23:17] <redir> pong
[23:17] <redir> whatever
[23:17] <alexisb> redir, standup
[23:17] <redir> doh!
[23:17] <redir> brt
[23:39] <wallyworld> redir: looking at your branch now
[23:39] <redir> wallyworld: tx
[23:46] <wallyworld> redir: lgtm with a couple of small things
[23:47] <redir> wallyworld: tx