[02:00] <wgrant> sinzui: I somehow feel that the Launchpad importance categorisation system doesn't work well, after seeing all of your Answers triage.
[02:01] <sinzui> wgrant: it does not
[02:01] <sinzui> critical means stop work and fix it now
[02:01] <sinzui> high means we commit to fix it in 3 cycles and schedule and assignit
[02:02] <sinzui> low is anything what we cannot commit people to
[02:02] <wgrant> Sometimes I really wish priority and severity were still separate fields.
[02:02] <sinzui> We are still discussing dropping the other importances
[02:02] <wgrant> Wishlist needs to die, and you seem to feel the same about Medium.
[02:03] <wgrant> But I like Medium.
[02:03] <sinzui> wgrant: what does medium mean to you
[02:03] <wgrant> sinzui: I'm not sure, but other projects use milestones to track what you seem to use importance for.
[02:03] <wgrant> Few other projects define High/Low based on whether they can find resources.
[02:04] <sinzui> BjornT:  likes medium, but it is personal. we medium is not more likely to be fixed than a low. It is a logistical problem really
[02:04] <wgrant> After seeing what has been done to Answers, I am sure that Launchpad has it wrong.
[02:04] <sinzui> https://dev.launchpad.net/BugTriage
[02:05] <wgrant> What happens when Answers gets some love? The bugs are no longer ordered.
[02:05] <sinzui> wgrant: I am being honest about what will be fixed
[02:05] <wgrant> I know.
[02:06] <sinzui> wgrant: We look at the business objects and User demand to create stories that define the themes to makr bugs as High
[02:06] <sinzui> Answers and bugs still get critical issues, and they are fixed immediately.
[02:06] <wgrant> s/bugs/blueprints/?
[02:07] <sinzui> correct, blueprints.
[02:07] <wgrant> You seem to be changing the old definition of importance (a combination of priority and severity) to mean only priority.
[02:07] <wgrant> And that priority is global across all of launchpad-project.
[02:08] <sinzui> I think I want them separate again too
[02:08] <wgrant> Which makes priorites apart from Critical impossible for Answers and Blueprints, except for changes necessitated by other Launchpad changes.
[02:08] <wgrant> s/priorites/importance/
[02:08] <sinzui> wgrant: but that is true
[02:09] <wgrant> So if Answers, by some act of god, gets somebody working on it... how do they know what to do?
[02:09] <sinzui> I can only work on these application after hours
[02:10] <wgrant> Right.
[02:10] <sinzui> wgrant:  as I said business objectives and user demand. representatives from each group (there is about 7 groups) get 3 issues that I will put into the prioritisation list
[02:10] <sinzui> if close an issue, from a list another can be added
[02:10] <wgrant> sinzui: Interesting...
[02:10] <sinzui> stakeholders can always change their list, at any time
[02:11] <sinzui> We will be reorganising stakeholders at UDS
[02:11] <wgrant> I don't think the third paragraph of 'The Problem with "Medium"' is a bad idea.
[02:12] <sinzui> https://dev.launchpad.net/VersionThreeDotO/Registry needs better input...the stake holds need to be more repesenative
[02:13] <sinzui> wgrant:I think tags are much better at discovering the themse of bugs to understand what needs to be done, and that allows us to update importance
[02:15] <sinzui> wgrant: you can see from my completed bugs, 2/3 are low, but I fixed them in an opportunist fashion. I had a time box to complete a high bug, and I closed some easy low ones since I had time left
[02:15] <wgrant> sinzui: Perhaps. But there are some bugs that are almost objectively of higher importance than others (for example, I saw one about Answers misattributing bug comments and status change messages - that has to be higher importance than a typo)
[02:16] <wgrant> But under the Launchpad triage guidelines, they are both Low. Just because there are no engineers on Answers.
[02:16] <wgrant> There is no way to distinguish them.
[02:16] <sinzui> wgrant: I agree, there are many degrees. That is why the person who does triage must reevaluate everything.
[02:17] <wgrant> What happens when community developers appear on the scene in Launchpad?
[02:17] <sinzui> wgrant: This model reflects what happens,
[02:18] <sinzui> wgrant: I would remove critical. just use three states, high, medium, low. Or do now, schedule for near future, fix opportunisticaly
[02:19] <sinzui> If I could fix the blueprint statues, they would be essential, expected, and optional
[02:19] <wgrant> sinzui: 'schedule for the near future' is much better handled by targetting/milestoning to a series.
[02:20] <sinzui> wgrant: We have  had lots of bugs assigned to milestones and persons that never get fixed. Only the high items really get fixed
[02:20] <sinzui> medium and low always slip
[02:21] <sinzui> the problem is...if a high bug is not fixed in a year, it clearly was not high, Other things were fixed instead
[02:21] <wgrant> Right.
[02:22]  * Nafallo waits for the state "OMGTHEWORLDENDS"
[02:23] <wgrant> The conflation of severity and priority years ago really seems to have been a bad idea, in retrospect.
[02:23] <wgrant> As was the introduction of Wishlist as an importance.
[02:23] <sinzui> We do need to fix importance, priority, and status in bugs and blueprints. We avoid blueprints. We Will have people on Answers and Blueprints in a few months, and then interment. every quarter.
[02:23] <wgrant> Oh, really?
[02:23] <wgrant> I imagined they were orphaned indefinitely.
[02:24] <sinzui> wgrant: We need both those apps to do our job, and they do not work for us
[02:24] <wgrant> sinzui: I don't think Blueprints and Bugs should be separate apps.
[02:24]  * sinzui high five's wgrant
[02:25] <wgrant> Answers needs to be separate, and needs fixing, yes. But Blueprint?
[02:26] <wgrant> Having features/bugs split in listings, for example, is a good thing, but they are so similar that IMO it should just be a flag on the object...
[02:26] <wgrant> And I don't understand why it was ever done the other way.
[02:26] <wgrant> Nor why Wishlist exists.
[02:27] <wgrant> Change Wishlist into a flag, perhaps add a couple of extra fields to bug tasks, and kill off Blueprint forever. Maybe.
[02:31] <sinzui> wgrant: A lot of us agree with you.
[02:32] <sinzui> The problem now is that now that we have it, how do we fix it so that is a tool to plan a release instead of a record of what someone wants?
[02:36] <wgrant> sinzui: It sounds to me like you need to have a big get-together of lots of stakeholders... rather convenient that there's on this week and next.
[02:36] <sinzui> indeed
[02:37] <batoms> ive been trying to dput to my ppa and the upload succeeds but i don't get a confirmation email
[02:38] <sinzui> wgrant: I'm sure the stake holders will change when we open source. I also hope that priorities will change when more people can help fix the issues that concern them most
[02:38] <batoms> and the package doesn't show on my ppa page
[02:38] <batoms> anyone have any ideas?
[02:38]  * sinzui thinks
[02:40] <sinzui> batoms: are you receiving other email from Launchpad?
[02:40] <batoms> sinzui: what other types of emails? i'm not getting anything related to the upload of the package
[02:41] <sinzui> bug emails? team emails?
[02:41] <wgrant> batoms: OK, there are a couple of things to check. Have you waited more than five minutes? Is the _source.changes signed with your key? Is that key registered with your account on Launchpad?
[02:44] <batoms> let me double check the key
[02:47] <wgrant> batoms: Also check that Changed-By and Maintainer in the .changes have non-obfuscated email addresses.
[02:47] <wgrant> That has caused silent failures in the past, but I'm not sure if that still happens.
[02:49] <batoms> i think it might be my gpg key, mine has changed recently
[02:50] <batoms> i'll check all those things, thanks
[03:23] <batoms> should the incoming line in .dput.cf be ~whatever/ubuntu or ~whatever/ppa/ubuntu if uploading to your group PPA
[03:24] <Sarvatt> ~whatever/ppa/ubuntu
[03:25] <batoms> after uploading my new gpg key i can now get the confirmation email...unfortunately its to confirm my rejection
[03:42] <wgrant> batoms: Either of those should work, but the latter is the new, preferred one.
[05:51] <Peng_> Is it just me, or does LP take longer to mirror new branches than it used to?
[05:53] <wgrant> Peng_: You mean scan, so they show in the web UI?
[05:54] <wgrant> Or mirroring remote branches?
[05:55] <Peng_> wgrant: I mean the actual mirroring.
[05:56] <jml> Peng_: it's possible -- we don't have any graphs tracking that.
[05:56] <Peng_> :D
[05:58] <jml> Peng_: do you have any data supporting your hypothesis?
[06:17] <Peng_> jml: No, I don't.
[06:18] <Peng_> I've been noticing this for at least a couple weeks, too. I'm a useful user, eh? :P
[06:18] <jml> Peng_: ahh, even anecdotes are better than nothing.
[06:18] <jml> Peng_: I can have a poke around later on and see if there's a cheapish way of gathering data on how long mirrors take.
[06:19] <jml> (note the unspecified time frame)
[06:20] <Peng_> This may have been since the last rollout, or longer. :\
[06:20] <jml> what leads you to make the suggestion
[06:20] <jml> I'm wondering if it's just the big yellow notice on the web page
[06:21] <Peng_> jml: Is the "Last mirrored" statistic on branch pages based on the scanner or the puller?
[06:22] <jml> Peng_: puller.
[06:22] <Peng_> jml: It took 12 minutes to mirror a branch I just added, then. I have no proof, but it felt like it only took a few minutes in the past.
[06:23] <jml> ok.
[06:23] <jml> that's interesting
[06:25] <jml> Peng_: so, I can't come up with any convincing explanations for it getting slower.
[06:25] <jml> Peng_: *but* I do know that we're making the puller more responsive in the next cycle or so.
[06:26] <Peng_> OK, cool. Thanks. :)
[06:27] <Peng_> 12 minutes obviously isn't a huge issue, but felt different to me, so I wanted to bring it up.
[06:27] <jml> yeah, thanks for doing os.
[06:27] <jml> I really want to write a Bazaar plugin that requests a mirror using the Launchpad API also,
[06:27] <jml> but - sadly - I must write this talk first.
[06:30] <Peng_> How would the plugin work? Would it run automatically after pushing or something? How would it know if/where the branch was mirrored?
[06:33] <jml> Peng_: well, at the simplest level, it could just be 'bzr request-mirror <branch_url>'
[06:33] <jml> Peng_: I don't know if Bazaar has a post-push hook or equivalent.
[06:34] <jml> Peng_: It could also try divining the Launchpad branch from the public branch location.
[06:34] <jml> because for many mirrored branches it could make sense for the push location to be the server and the public location to be Launchpda.
[06:42] <Peng_> jml: I'd be happy with just "bzr request-mirror <branch-url>".
[06:42] <jml> Peng_: yeah, me too, I think.
[06:42] <jml> Peng_: also, I need to figure out a way of writing a launchpadlib application that tells you when your branch has been mirrored.
[06:43] <Peng_> jml: In my case, the public location is set to my server, not LP. If it was possible to pass that URL to LP and get back the LP URL for that branch, that'd be totally neat, though. :D
[06:43] <jml> Peng_: that's not already provided?
[06:43] <Peng_> jml: I have no idea.
[06:43]  * Peng_ knows nothing of the API.
[06:43] <jml> hmm.
[06:44] <jml> well, there's definitely a thing we already have in the code, and something that we should provide if we don't already
[07:10] <lifeless> jml: bzr help hooks | grep -> post_push, and also there is post_branch_tip_change
[07:10] <jml> lifeless: that's good to know.
[07:11] <jml> help hooks would have been my first port of call, too.
[07:37] <Peng_> This time, it took 14 minutes. :D
[10:17] <Peng_> Did you just take away the ability to move branches to a different project the day I accidentally put some branches in the wrong project? :(
[10:19]  * Peng_ temporarily turns off the edge redirect to fix them. :)
[10:50] <tzepu_> hello, i am having a problem in signing Ubuntu code of conduct with the error 'no public key' when hitting continue
[10:51] <tzepu_> i downloaded 2 times the document and assured that i copy all its content and still get that error, any advice?
[11:11] <Peng_> FWIW, I've registered several more mirrored branches, and they were all mirrored in ~12-14 minutes too.
[11:48] <stefanlsd> I have a ubuntu package in bzr which i would like two devs (maybe more) to work on.  Instead of everyone having their own branch that we need to merge, is creating a team the only way to achieve a 'shared' branch?
[11:51] <wgrant> stefanlsd: Yes.
[11:51] <stefanlsd> wgrant: thanks :)
[12:14] <happyaron> Hi, I uploaded a package to my ppa with errors, so it returns build failures, but how can I re-upload the exact file that I've fixed the problem?
[12:18] <happyaron> anyone know how to solve?
[12:18] <Nafallo> bump the revision?
[12:20] <happyaron> Nafallo: you mean that I should change a version?
[12:21] <happyaron> anyway, it always tells me that the newly uploaded .diff.gz already exists in PPA
[12:31] <jpds> happyaron: Yes, change the version number in debian/changelog.
[12:31] <happyaron> jpds: thank you
[13:13] <Ampelbein> Hi there. Could it be that the official hppa-builders are a little... dead? For example https://edge.launchpad.net/builders/kohnen builds the same package for 7 days. I can't imagine that is correct ;-)
[15:20] <BUGabundo> congrats on the new edge bug page!
[15:20] <BUGabundo> looks so smooth
[16:01] <Kangarooo> how can I make a pool ?
[16:02] <Kangarooo> ui poll in launchpad
[16:02] <BUGabundo> Kangarooo: only in a project you can do a poll
[16:05] <Kangarooo> ok and then? or only team manager can make them?
[16:05] <BUGabundo> not sure
[16:05] <Kangarooo> here https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-users/+polls was one poll but I don't see button to make new
[16:13] <charlie-tca> I think it is administrators only
[16:20] <BUGabundo> charlie-tca: aren't you on the admin team for xubuntu ?
[16:20] <BUGabundo> welcome sabdfl
[16:20] <charlie-tca> I don't think so
[16:31] <MisterBax> lo
[16:31] <MisterBax> oupse sorry
[16:33] <BUGabundo> hehe MisterBax
[17:25] <ranok> Hello, I'm having troubles uploading a largeish package to my PPA, it gets to 1k less than the total size, then hangs
[19:12] <mithro_> Hey guys, my ppa has ran out of space again :(
[19:16] <mithro_> although I'm not sure why this time
[19:16] <mithro_> are old binary packages auto-purged?
[19:18] <mithro_> https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/69460
[19:23] <mithro_> anyone alive today? Or should I head to bed and check back tommorrow?
[19:33] <johan_inkscape> hi all
[19:33] <johan_inkscape> how do i sort the bugs in launchpad by the time of their last changes?
[19:39] <intellectronica> johan_inkscape: go to the advanced search form and select "by: most recently changed" from the dropbox at the top
[19:40] <johan_inkscape> ah wow, sorry for the dumb question
[19:46] <johan_inkscape> is it possible to add this "last changed" date/time to the columns in the bug listing?
[19:53] <bryce> hi johan_inkscape
[19:53] <johan_inkscape> hey bryce
[19:53] <bryce> johan_inkscape: not in launchpad directly afaik
[19:53] <johan_inkscape> trying to figure out the bug listing in launchpad
[19:53] <bryce> johan_inkscape: what exactly do you need?
[19:54] <johan_inkscape> it's just nice to see in the listing when a bug was touched for the last time
[19:54] <johan_inkscape> another thing:
[19:54] <johan_inkscape> the list of tags has shortened *a lot* for inkscape
[19:55] <johan_inkscape> (i can't find the "crash" tag that used to be listed on the right for example)
[19:55] <bryce> I've found sorting by last changed is usually sufficient.  Other than that it is possible to query via launchpadlib if for instance you want only bugs newer than N days or some such
[19:56] <bryce> johan_inkscape: they implemented an official/unofficial thing for tags
[19:56] <bryce> so possibly "crash" just needs added for inkscape's official list
[19:56] <johan_inkscape> ok
[19:58] <bryce> here I can add it
[19:58] <bryce> any other tags that should go into the official list?
[19:59] <johan_inkscape> i don't know what tags we have
[19:59] <johan_inkscape> live path effect, or lpe ?
[19:59] <johan_inkscape> thanks bryce
[19:59] <bryce> livepatheffects - ok
[19:59]  * hyperair wonders if bryce has a /ignore on in #ubuntu-x.
[20:00] <bryce> hyperair: just a minute, let me finish helping johna first
[20:00] <hyperair> no hurry ;)
[20:01] <bryce> johan_inkscape: ok I added a couple dozen that look popular, including those two
[20:01] <johan_inkscape> yeah i see
[20:01] <johan_inkscape> thanks
[20:02] <bryce> johan_inkscape: let me or one of the other inkscape admins know if you have others to propose adding
[20:02] <johan_inkscape> ok
[20:09] <lizardmenke> Hi I'm beta-testing on ubuntuone and now I want to change my launchpad password. Will changeing my LP password affect my access in my ubuntuone account?
[20:12] <lizardmenke> Or should I rather be asking this question in ubuntuone channel?
[20:32] <beuno> lizardmenke, it won't
[20:32] <lizardmenke> Ok thanks I'll go ahead and change it then
[23:29] <MTecknology> Is it possible to do bzr push to a non existing branch?
[23:30] <MTecknology> Like this: bzr push lp:~mtecknology/temp
[23:42] <wgrant> MTecknology: Yes; that's how you're meant to create branches. But that's not a valid branch path!
[23:45] <MTecknology> wgrant: there we go - thanks :)
[23:45] <MTecknology> that's pretty cool :)
[23:47] <wgrant> It is.


[02:11] <Amaranth> Can I get rid of Nikon yet?
[02:48] <IdleOne> Amaranth: Nikon is ban evading
[02:49] <IdleOne> Guest82396 is Nikon also
[02:49] <Amaranth> Yeah, this is going to be fun :)
[02:49] <IdleOne> he has a tone of proxies it seems
[02:50] <Amaranth> And the fun begins
[02:50] <IdleOne> might want to explain the rules and ask that he follows them instead of trying to ban them all
[02:50] <Amaranth> Did you see the hostmask for the guest nick?
[02:51] <Amaranth> IdleOne: And he clearly has no problem ignoring rules, he was swearing and ignored repeated attempts to get him to stop using enter as punctuation
[02:52] <IdleOne> ac3_<EMAIL_ADDRESS>aka CHILDOFOTOPUS aka vxp aka GUEST....
[02:53] <IdleOne> he should of been banned because of that host when he joined.
[02:53] <Amaranth> Yeah, didn't see it when he joined
[02:53] <IdleOne> me either
[07:41] <mahen23> just unban me already
[07:54] <jussi> mahen23: you disappeared the other day. Ill unban you, but please, be careful with our time.
[07:54] <mahen23> our time?
[07:54] <jussi> mahen23: the operators. you asked to be banned, and now you are asking for unban
[07:55] <mahen23> ohhhhh
[07:55] <jussi> [09:55:23] *** Mode #ubuntu-offtopic -b mahen23!*@* by jussi
[07:55] <mahen23> yea its the only way i can take some time away from irc
[07:56] <jussi> mahen23: you are now unbanned, anything else you need?
[07:56] <mahen23> am going am going
[10:15] <jpds> Hmm, lowebb in #u.
[10:15] <ikonia> rude
[10:16] <ikonia> why has lutz directed him to offtopic rather than the correct channel as you did
[10:16] <ikonia> fed up with that, it's not ontopic for ubuntu, so instead of pointing the right place, dump into offtopic
[10:17] <jpds> Yeah, I felt like kicking him but thought I'd let someone else look into it.
[10:17] <ikonia> not into entertaining his rubbish
[10:19] <ikonia> popey: obvious troll here
[10:19] <popey> :)
[10:20] <ikonia> I haven't spoke since he joined the channel, and no-one said anything about paying for anything
[10:20] <popey> jpds did
[10:20] <popey> 10:13:07 < jpds> lowebb: Did you pay for the Ubuntu?
[10:21] <ikonia> oh
[10:21] <jpds> Well, that clearly wasn't directed at him.
[10:21] <ikonia> I missed that
[10:21] <popey> well no, but it's not a helpful retort tbh
[10:22] <ikonia> too slow !
[10:22] <ikonia> and I missed the ?
[10:22] <popey> :)
[13:22] <gnomefreak> can someone please make !info natty as default in #ubuntu-mozillateam please?
[13:29] <gnomefreak> it seems natty wasnt even added to bot. !info bleh natty says that natty is not valid
[13:43] <jussi> gnomefreak: I/tsimpson will get to it sometime soon - Im in the middle of something at work atm, so please keep prodding us till it gets done
[13:43] <gnomefreak> jussi: thanks
[13:44] <jussi> gnomefreak: really though, please keep prodding or file a bug - Im way busy atm
[13:44] <jussi> !bug
[13:45] <gnomefreak> i will file one as soon as i get a minute
[13:49] <tsimpson> gnomefreak: I'll add natty now
[13:50] <tsimpson> this would probably be easier if ubuntu had links to stable/unstable in the archive, a-la debian
[13:53]  * popey shudders at the thought
[13:53] <gnomefreak> tsimpson: thanks. can you also add it to +1 and #ubuntu-mozillateam
[13:54] <Pici> It should have been done in +1 a while ago.
[13:54] <Pici> hrm..
[13:54] <Pici> weird.
[13:55] <gnomefreak> everything is acting weird for me today
[13:56] <tsimpson> @channel #ubuntu+1 plugins.PackageInfo.defaultRelease natty
[13:56] <tsimpson> @channel #ubuntu-mozillateam plugins.PackageInfo.defaultRelease natty
[13:57] <tsimpson> @reload PackageInfo
[13:57] <tsimpson> fix0rd
[13:58] <bazhang> hehe
[13:58] <gnomefreak> im still getting maverick as default in -mozillateam
[13:59] <gnomefreak> 'natty' is not a valid thats using !info bleh natty
[14:00] <tsimpson> gnomefreak: is ubottu or ubot4 in there?
[14:01] <gnomefreak> letme check
[14:01] <gnomefreak> ubot2
[14:02] <gnomefreak> you would have to do this per bot?
[14:03] <tsimpson> ubot2 and ubot4 are on different servers and run by jpds
[14:03] <tsimpson> jpds: *poke*
[14:04] <gnomefreak> oh. feel free to give us ubottu ( i know we cant have it in there)
[14:04] <gnomefreak> be back coffee refill
[14:05] <tsimpson> gnomefreak: if you remove ubot2 I can place ubottu there (temporarily anyway)
[14:05] <tsimpson> and, technically, it should be ubot4
[14:05] <tsimpson> confused anyone? ;)
[14:06] <jpds> gnomefreak: Fixed.
[14:07] <jpds> Well, apt's still churning away.
[14:11] <gnomefreak> jpds: thanks
[14:22] <ikonia> quite a row going on in -server
[14:30] <Tm_T> huh?
[14:31] <ikonia> few guys getting a little heated, not bad, just frustrated, good discussion though
[14:31] <jpds> ikonia: Quite.
[14:32] <Tm_T> summary?
[14:33] <ikonia> just about some of the processes the server team are using to package
[14:34] <Tm_T> ah, roger
[14:34] <Tm_T> thanks (:
[14:47] <jpds> Hmm, captain_ in #u.
[14:50]  * ikonia smells a troll attack
[14:50] <gnomefreak> i really really hate the word nazis (when using it to call someone one)
[14:50] <jpds> gnomefreak: Are you a socialist?
[14:50] <ikonia> who said that ?
[14:50] <gnomefreak> he needs to be careful
[14:51] <tsimpson> gnomefreak: ditto, I have it on highlight
[14:51] <Tm_T> same
[14:51] <gnomefreak> ikonia: captain did
[14:51] <ikonia> I missed that
[14:51] <gnomefreak> me too at first
[14:51]  * gnomefreak doesnt have words on highlite its too much work
[14:52] <ikonia> Hubologist: is a troll he was saying he loves #ubuntu in #debian, and debian in #ubuntu
[14:52] <gnomefreak> never been called a socialist
[14:53] <gnomefreak> IMHO captain should be removed from #u since he has been warned alot
[14:54] <ikonia> has he been warned a lot ?
[14:54] <ikonia> we are all watching, give him a chance,
[14:54] <gnomefreak> ok maybe warn was a bad word
[14:54] <ikonia> he's not spoke again yet
[14:54] <ikonia> I know what you mean
[14:55] <gnomefreak> how many chances are you planning on? i havent seen him give or ask for support in #u
[14:55] <jpds> 1.
[14:55] <ikonia> harsh using nazi in reference to gemrman
[14:55] <ikonia> germans
[14:55] <ikonia> gnomefreak: he's not spoken since he's been told it's a support channel
[14:55] <ikonia> he knows now - so lets see what he does
[14:56] <gnomefreak> i would have removed him at that point but i wasnt watching. i wont interject at this point since others are watching/talking to him
[14:56] <ikonia> gnomefreak: I would have done sooner had I seen the other comments
[14:57] <gnomefreak> we used to ban people for using that word
[14:58] <gnomefreak> a long time ago like before IRCC
[14:58] <ikonia> I would have done had I seen him use it
[15:20] <ikonia> lockersnatch: hello
[15:22] <ikonia> lockersnatch: could you please respond as you have been forwarded from the channel #ubuntu to this channel
[15:28] <lockersnatch> yea whats up
[15:29] <lockersnatch> ...annnd why have i been banned from ubuntu?
[15:29] <ikonia> lockersnatch: you've been forwarded to this channel and not ubuntu because yesterday you where banned, and you've tried to (and did) get around the ban
[15:29] <lockersnatch> how and why did i get banned?
[15:29] <ikonia> I've put a more agressive ban in place and forwarded you here to discuss it
[15:29] <lockersnatch> brb, phone
[15:29] <lockersnatch> oh, nvm someone else got it
[15:29] <ikonia> lockersnatch: you know why - you sent me a pm calling me a tool
[15:29] <lockersnatch> so yea, why was i banned?
[15:29] <ikonia> due to your offtopic (backtrack as I recall) questioning
[15:30] <ikonia> and when I asked you to stop, you started calling me names
[15:30] <lockersnatch> ohhh yea, the reason i didnt leave to go to BT A: I didnt have a registered nick and you cant speak in that chan without one, and B: someone in Ubuntu was trying to answer my question and i didnt want to leave them talking to thin air
[15:31] <ikonia> lockersnatch: I asked and then told you to stop discussing it
[15:31] <ikonia> you didn't
[15:31] <ikonia> you got banned and started name calling
[15:31] <lockersnatch> right, because that guy was trying to answer the question
[15:31] <ikonia> it doesn't matter
[15:32] <lockersnatch> i just called you a tool cause that guy was trying to answer my question and you kept telling me to leave
[15:32] <ikonia> I asked you 2 times, and then told you a 3rd, I directed you to the correct channel, and asked the other user to stop
[15:33] <ikonia> lockersnatch: we have channel rules and guidelines, if you want to join #ubuntu - you need to agree to follow them
[15:33] <lockersnatch> plus, i didnt realize you were an op, and thought you were just some random person trying to be a stick in the mud
[15:33] <ikonia> you also need to be able to talk to other users without being rude
[15:33] <ikonia> lockersnatch: it doesn't matter if an op or a community member asks you to follow the channels topic policy - you do it
[15:33] <lockersnatch> i thought it was on topic because i was asking about how to get the ubuntu bootloader in the right position
[15:33] <ikonia> lockersnatch: yes, but you where told it was offtopic
[15:34] <ikonia> and caried out
[15:34] <ikonia> multiple times
[15:34] <lockersnatch> and as i said, backtrack doesnt allow unregistered nicks to speak in that chan
[15:34] <ikonia> lockersnatch: that doesn't mean ubuntu picks up the slack
[15:34] <lockersnatch> so...i went and registered
[15:34] <ikonia> lockersnatch: you have a choice of registering a nick and using the correct channel, or not getting backtrack support
[15:34] <lockersnatch> look, if you want to keep me banned, do it, i offer as much support to people as i can while im in that chan, but if its not welcome, fine
[15:34] <lockersnatch> i apologize for calling you a tool
[15:35] <lockersnatch> but there is really nothing else i can do about it at this point
[15:35] <lockersnatch> i registered a nick so that i could speak in that chan so that should remedy that particular situation
[15:35] <ikonia> lockersnatch: if I remove the ban will you keep to ubuntu (not backtrack) support discussion ?
[15:36] <ikonia> so if I remove the ban - you'll keep to pure ubuntu support only ?
[15:36] <lockersnatch> absolutely
[15:36] <ikonia> and if someone nudges you to keep on topic of corect you on how to behave in the channel, you'll do it ??
[15:37] <lockersnatch> lol, yes ill do it, but in my defense, you didnt explain how it was off topic...i thought it was on topic because as i said i was asking about the bootloader, but apparently i was wrong
[15:38] <ikonia> lockersnatch: don't lie, I made it crystal clear 2 times ubuntu was for ubuntu support only and the correct channel was backtrack-linux
[15:38] <lockersnatch> so, yes, i will try to stick to topic, but on a side note, if the rules are this strict, i might suggest explaining why something is not off topic so that ppl dont think they are getting railroaded
[15:38] <lockersnatch> riight, but i was asking about the ubuntu bootloader
[15:38] <ikonia> I did explain
[15:38] <ikonia> lockersnatch: no you where not
[15:38] <ikonia> you where asking about the boot loader installed by backtrack
[15:39] <lockersnatch> and how to get grub2 back in place
[15:39] <lockersnatch> but i never got that far
[15:39] <ikonia> because you where talking about backtrack's boot loader
[15:39] <lockersnatch> *sigh*
[15:39] <ikonia> if your happy with what I've said, I'll remove the ban,
[15:39] <lockersnatch> im ecstatic
[15:40] <ikonia> I can do without the sarcasm
[15:40] <lockersnatch> ok, im happy
[15:40] <lockersnatch> or satisfied
[15:40] <ikonia> the ban has been removed, you can leave this channel and re-join #ubuntu now
[15:40] <lockersnatch> or accepting
[15:55] <IdleOne> Not sure I understand why the IRCC is calling for more nominees, how many nominees did the IRCC get?
[15:57] <popey> not enough
[15:58] <IdleOne> really
[15:58] <IdleOne> et tu
[15:58] <IdleOne> that answer, sounds like the IRCC doesn't like the nominees it got.
[15:59] <IdleOne> not enough really is not an answer. Why can't I get a number
[16:00] <popey> which answer?
[16:00] <popey> oh, my "not enough" answer
[16:00] <IdleOne> yes
[16:00] <popey> well, it's probably not that hard to figure out, given we know how big the IRCC currently is
[16:01] <Tm_T> not enough to make it poll
[16:01] <popey> so anything less than that number could reasonably be considered "not enough" IMO
[16:01] <IdleOne> based on the size of the current council I am supposed to guess on how many people have been nominated or nominated themself for the open positions?
[16:01] <IdleOne> seriously?
[16:02] <popey> It's an option :)
[16:02] <IdleOne> fine, if you don't want to answer...
[16:02] <popey> tbh the reason I haven't given a straight answer is because I don't know how public the info is or should be
[16:02] <popey> the mail was between the IRCC and the CC
[16:02] <popey> if the IRCC wish to make that public, then there is your answer
[16:03] <IdleOne> the mail I got says the nomination period has been extended because of "not enough" nominees.
[16:03] <popey> reply to that mail asking "how many nominees did the IRCC get"?
[16:04] <IdleOne> I don't see how the number of applicants is a secret
[16:04]  * popey shrugs
[16:04] <IdleOne> whatever.
[16:04] <popey> o_O
[16:05] <Tm_T> I really don't see how exact number is relevant
[16:05] <gord> this teacup has too many storms in it, i'm getting a new one
[16:06] <Tm_T> but in general, you need three for every open position to make it real competition
[16:07] <Tm_T> IMO
[16:08] <knome> agreed
[16:08] <Tm_T> no matter how good nominees you got
[16:08] <gord> maybe the fact that we had to ask for more is an indication of.. something, not sure just asking again will fix whatever that thing is
[16:09] <IdleOne> Tm_T: if there are 2 spots open and two people apply and they are both "good" then why is there a need for more applicants ?
[16:09] <popey> one perspective is that asking for more is indicative that not enough people heard about it.
[16:09] <IdleOne> for example ^^
[16:09] <Tm_T> IdleOne: because it's meant to be voted by us
[16:10] <Tm_T> IdleOne: and lack of applicants usually means people aren't encouraged enough
[16:11] <ikonia> or they have confidence in the guys doing the job now the issues have been raised
[16:11] <popey> or the pool of possible people is too small
[16:11] <popey> or people just dont want to
[16:11] <ikonia> I think the pool is quite good
[16:11] <popey> how many in the pool?
[16:12] <popey> (I honestly dont know)
[16:12] <ikonia> pretty much the whole operator community at least
[16:12] <ikonia> they are all aware of it
[16:12] <popey> I am not asking how many are good/bad, just raw numbers
[16:12] <ikonia> well if you look at the unique operators in core channels there are at least 30 - 5 current = 25
[16:12] <ikonia> (roughly)
[16:12] <ikonia> (just did ubuntu/ubuntu-server/kubuntu as a guide)
[16:12] <popey> interesting
[16:12] <popey> thanks
[16:13] <popey> and we're sure every single one of them knows about this recruitment drive?
[16:13] <ikonia> as operators they should be subscribed to the list
[16:13] <popey> we're not targetting the wrong people with announcements?
[16:13] <IdleOne> they should all be on the ML so yeah
[16:13] <ikonia> that is one of the requirements
[16:13] <popey> ok
[16:13] <tsimpson> nominations are not limited to current operators
[16:13] <tsimpson> anyone can apply
[16:13] <ikonia> tsimpson: no, but I was using that as a exmaple pool
[16:13] <ikonia> "at least the current operator team"
[16:13] <tsimpson> ok
[16:14] <tsimpson> IdleOne: "that answer, sounds like the IRCC doesn't like the nominees it got." <- which is why we specified that the IRCC and the CC are not satisfied with the numer
[16:14] <tsimpson> *number
[16:15] <ikonia> I think being a little more open would help
[16:15] <ikonia> we only got $X number, we'd like $X+1
[16:15] <ikonia> it would also help if we knew if the existing members are planning to re-run
[16:15] <tsimpson> ikonia: the reason we didn't give out the number is because the council has never given out that information before
[16:15] <ikonia> eg: people may not want to replace them, but would apply if they knew there was a shortfall
[16:16] <ikonia> tsimpson: you don't have to, just giving you a view
[16:16] <IdleOne> tsimpson: I used IRCC as an umbrella term but I still don't see why there is a need for more applicants assuming the current applicants are qualified. Anyway I didn't want to start a huge debate/war over this I was just curious to know how many applicants there is at this point.
[16:16] <ikonia> eg: if I wanted to give the 2 guys a chance to fix things, why would I run, if I knew there was a shortfall as say pici didn't want to re-run, then I'd apply
[16:16] <ikonia> (in a hypothetical situation)
[16:16] <ikonia> I'm not saying pici doesn't want to, nor that I want to apply
[16:17] <tsimpson> if you want to apply you should, regardless of who has applied already
[16:17] <ikonia> that's not how I'd view it
[16:17] <ikonia> why would I want to run against someone I'd want to support
[16:18] <tsimpson> well we have 2 open spots, maybe you and that person would both be approved ;)
[16:18] <charlie-tca> agreed. I would not nominate myself if I feel that the incumbent is doing a good job. That simply limits their chances.
[16:18] <ikonia> tsimpson: what about if I wanted to support both guys as I thought they where doing a good job
[16:18] <ikonia> I don't understand why there are number needs
[16:18] <ikonia> if there are 2 job, and only one person applys, and you don't like him for that role, leave the roles open and re-advertise
[16:19] <ikonia> don't give it to someone by default, but have the balls to say "we don't want you to continue even though there is no replacment"
[16:19] <ikonia> pick the right people for the job, not making up the numbers
[16:19] <IdleOne> Also "we didn't give out the number is because the council has never given out that information before" doesn't mean you can't start giving it out now. Perhaps this particular issue has never happened before because in the past there was always a larger number of applicants.
[16:20] <tsimpson> IdleOne: yes, but I'm not going to make a unilateral call on that
[16:20] <ikonia> tsimpson: maybe take it up with the others as the number of people and if the guys are intending to re-run maybe a factor for people
[16:21] <tsimpson> ikonia: those that have already applied are still counted, we just want to make sure everyone gets a chance to apply
[16:21] <ikonia> tsimpson: everyone has had a chance to apply - you made the mail a while ago
[16:21] <ikonia> you've stated you've not got enough numbers, I don't see why numbers are relevant, what's relevant is out of the people who already exist and applied, do you want any of them to do the job, yes or no
[16:21] <ikonia> (I don't expect you to say yes or no)
[16:21] <IdleOne> everyone who wanted to apply had the chance. the call for nominees is over. extending it seems illogical to me and only brings up doubt in my mind as to why it has been extended.
[16:22] <ikonia> if the answer is no, then the council goes to 3 (still a quarum) while it's worked out
[16:22] <tsimpson> ikonia: the issue is not with the applicants, just with the extremely low response
[16:22] <ikonia> tsimpson: why is that an issue ?
[16:22] <ikonia> is this acceptable to discuss in this channel ?
[16:23] <tsimpson> compared to the last election, there has been an extremely low response. no one can be exactly sure why, so we are extending the application period
[16:23] <ikonia> you've not asked why
[16:23] <ikonia> you've just extended the period
[16:23] <ikonia> and you've made no details of the current situation available
[16:23] <tsimpson> in that email
[16:23] <Tm_T> I see no problem in this
[16:23] <ikonia> that doesn't say anything beyond low number and extended
[16:24] <ikonia> what is the number, what's low, why do you need more numbers, surly is the people that count, how many do you want, who's applied, are the existing guys re-running
[16:24] <ikonia> all factors to my personal process
[16:24] <Tm_T> ikonia: there need to be enough candidates so we can really vote
[16:25] <ikonia> why ?
[16:25] <ikonia> if there are 2 guys, and two roles, you vote if you want them to have the job, if its 3 - 2 no, the council goes to 3
[16:25] <ikonia> if there is 1 guy and 2 jobs, one position is vacant and you decide if you want him to do the job
[16:25] <tsimpson> ikonia: no, the council must have 5 members
[16:25] <ikonia> tsimpson: no it doesn't
[16:25] <ikonia> it ran without for long enough
[16:26] <tsimpson> * The Council will consist of five (5) members. Membership should be public.
[16:26] <ikonia> and I'm not saying it goes to 3 until the end of time, it goes to 3 until you find someone to replace
[16:26] <tsimpson> from the charter
[16:26] <ikonia> tsimpson: it's written on a wiki - that doesn't make it an unbrekable rule
[16:26] <ikonia> this is the kind of non-commonsense stuff that is annoying people
[16:26] <ikonia> I will now make a public call for you to release the information on the current numbers, if the exiting members are going to re-riun
[16:26] <Pici> The CC is not happy with the number of nominations.
[16:27] <ikonia> Pici: yes, so the question is to them as much as the IRCC
[16:28] <tsimpson> ikonia: we do not get the final say on if the number is acceptable, the CC do
[16:28] <ikonia> no-wonder people are shy of applying when no-one knows what's going on, why and the answers are like talking to the Riddler from batman
[16:28] <ikonia> tsimpson: yes, the question is to the CC as much as the IRCC
[16:28] <Tm_T> ikonia: I recommend to do the public calls in ML
[16:28] <ikonia> Tm_T: I will
[16:28] <Tm_T> thanks
[16:28] <ikonia> popey: are you still active ?
[16:29] <popey> i just forwarded IdleOnes question mail to the cc
[16:29] <ikonia> popey: thank you,
[16:29] <IdleOne> thank you
[16:29] <popey> np
[16:29] <ikonia> popey: I'd like to discuss this with the CC and the IRCC as this is bonkers
[16:29] <popey> I disagree.
[16:29] <ikonia> it shouldn't be this hard to involve the community
[16:31] <charlie-tca> It isn't really that hard to understand. If the CC requires more than one candidate per position before a vote can be called for, that is a requirement to ask for more nominations
[16:31] <popey> well, it's not a requirement as such
[16:32] <IdleOne> so what happens if there are no other nominees?
[16:32] <ikonia> if you get 1 or 100 candidates it shouldn't matter
[16:32] <charlie-tca> If it is not a requirement, then the whole request becomes mute
[16:32] <ikonia> it's a simple matter of vote for that person or not even if there is no-one else
[16:32] <popey> s/mute/moot/
[16:32] <ikonia> if there is no-one else and you don't like the person for the role, the position stays open
[16:33] <popey> I think you're overthinking it.
[16:33] <popey> it's really very simple
[16:33] <popey> the ircc mailed the cc with a list of nominees
[16:33] <ikonia> I agree
[16:33] <popey> the cc said "there's not enough, get some more"
[16:33] <ikonia> why do you need more numbers ?
[16:33] <popey> the ircc puts out a call
[16:33] <ikonia> I don't see why the number is iimportant
[16:33] <IdleOne> but why?
[16:33] <ikonia> just "can this person do the job, do we want them to do the job"
[16:33] <IdleOne> it's the why that we want to know about
[16:33] <popey> this is not the first time we have done this
[16:33] <popey> (ask for more nominees)
[16:34] <ikonia> doesn't mean its the right thing to do
[16:34] <popey> nor wrong
[16:34] <ikonia> very true
[16:34] <ikonia> I personally do not see why the number of people is important over the acutal person applying, yes/no do we want this person, even if there is no-one else
[16:34] <ikonia> that's how it should be looked at
[16:35] <popey> I disagree
[16:35] <ikonia> if there are 10 people, then great
[16:35] <ikonia> it widens the options and discussions
[16:35] <popey> here's your ballot paper, there's one name on it
[16:35] <ikonia> popey: if no-one applies in the extended period, what happens ?
[16:35] <ikonia> popey: don't vote
[16:35] <popey> which indicates a further problem
[16:35] <charlie-tca> write-in vote
[16:35] <ikonia> popey: I know where you are going, and I see the issue your suggesting
[16:36] <popey> I'm not going anywhere
[16:36] <popey> I'm merely responding to your questions the best I can from my personal perspective
[16:37] <ikonia> popey: I meant, I unerstand the problem your suggesting
[16:37] <popey> ok
[16:37] <ikonia> or at least appricate it
[18:13] <gnomefreak> jpds: can you please make natty the default in #u-mozillateam
[18:38] <jpds> 18:37:50 < jpds> !ot | Magnum
[18:38] <jpds> 18:38:15 [Freenode] [<EMAIL_ADDRESS>] Perhaps you wish to be quiet ?
[18:39] <jpds> Removed.
[18:43] <jpds> Now he's back as Magnux.
[18:54] <Flannel> not in #u he isn't
[19:28] <Pici> He was back in as Magralthea though.
[19:28] <Pici> Magralthea<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[19:29] <jpds> Pici: Noice.


[03:20] <ShawnR> so google-chrome-stable wouldn't update for me (error involved the possibility that "the compressed file(s) have become corrupted."  So why didn't the update manager just clear it and try to redownload it?  I did an apt-get clean and autoclean, then apt-get update and apt-get install google-chrome-stable and it worked fine
[03:20] <ShawnR> wouldn't it be wise that if the error is b/c the DLed package update is corrupted, that it would try to re-download it?


[12:51] <mhall119> ahoneybun: no, I'm on r127 or so
[13:25] <Garheade_> Not that I message anyone in this group outside of IRC but if anyone wants, they can telgram me at<PHONE_NUMBER>
[14:58] <jck77> good morning!
[15:04] <mhall119> good morning all
[15:04] <Garheade> Hows everyone doing today?
[15:38] <jck77> great!!! for a Monday!!!
[18:36] <ahoneybun> mhall119: I just moved to r257 today
[18:36] <ahoneybun> hello Garheade and jck77
[18:42] <jck77> hello ahoneybun
[18:44] <jck77> how was the Ubuntu Hour?
[18:44]  * jck77 wondering what r257 means LOL
[18:45] <ahoneybun> r257 is the release number of the ubuntu phone version
[18:45] <ahoneybun> jck77: it was fun jck77
[18:46] <mhall119> ahoneybun: release numbers are per-device-per-channel
[18:47] <ahoneybun> yea they are all indepent
[18:47] <ahoneybun> I thought we were both on rc-proposed
[18:49] <jck77> ohh ok
[18:50] <mhall119> ahoneybun: I'm on rc-proposed/bq-aquaris.en
[18:50] <mhall119> are you?
[18:50] <jck77> I saw that ubuntu phone at CES las vegas a couple of years ago
[18:50] <Garheade> I just hit r259 today... I think.
[18:50] <mhall119> jck77: come to FOSSETCON and you'll get to play with a couple yourself :)
[18:51] <ahoneybun> or the Release Party
[18:51] <ahoneybun> :)
[18:51] <ahoneybun> where the heck is ballons
[18:52] <jck77> hahaha I have to still plan that orlando trip
[18:52]  * ahoneybun wished he had a HDMI Monitor to bribe mhall119 to come
[18:52] <jck77> use a TV hehe
[18:52] <mhall119> ahoneybun: balloons is in the process of becoming a father :)
[18:52] <ahoneybun> oh
[18:53] <mhall119> he'll be unavailable for a couple weeks
[18:53] <ahoneybun> crap...
[18:53] <ahoneybun> I need him to send that N7
[18:53] <ahoneybun> or ask him if he can I should say
[18:54] <Nothing_Much> becoming a father?
[19:00] <mhall119> Nothing_Much: his wife is having a baby
[19:01] <Garheade> ahoneybun: I'd be willing to trade my N7 for a new job...
[19:02] <ahoneybun> I don't have the power to do that
[19:02] <ahoneybun> Garheade: ^
[19:03] <ahoneybun> mhall119: I saw your name all happily then "Not going" lol
[19:03] <mhall119> yeah, I meant to click +1 but accidentally pressed "Yes"
[19:03] <Garheade> :) No one does... ahoneybun. No one does. but you come across any leads, let me know.
[19:04] <ahoneybun> well I know alan's job needs Level 1 people
[19:04] <mhall119> Garheade: there's a java position open in Orlando I've been contacted about
[19:04] <ahoneybun> he is in Boca
[19:04] <ahoneybun> I think'
[19:04] <mhall119> that probably won't work out then :)
[19:04] <Garheade> I'm in west palm actually
[19:04] <ahoneybun> yea lol
[19:05] <ahoneybun> still a little drive if not remote
[19:05] <Garheade> I'm not much of developer though. Sys Admin by fire...
[19:05] <Nothing_Much> mhall119, yeah i know, but i thought he already looked like a father
[19:08] <mhall119> well now he'll have a reason to look like that :)
[19:11] <ahoneybun> mhall119: https://twitter.com/ubuntufl/status/650399462637109250
[19:15] <Garheade> Hey! That Glasshole looks familiar.
[19:27] <ahoneybun> damn it mhall119 now I realllllly need that cable lol
[19:42] <jck77> a little bit blurry that picture hehehe
[19:42] <jck77> not to blame whoever took that picture haha
[19:42] <jck77> resolution also looked like from a flip phone
[19:57] <Garheade> mhall119: Hows the response time on the N4 when it's hooked into a monitor like that?


[00:41] <gandalfcome> I get an unresponsive hdd under 8.04 when rsyncing data from one to another drive. The dmesg output I get starts with invalid opcode: 0000 [#1] SMP. I have googled the problem and saw that this is an reported error. Can someone confirm this?
[00:41] <mthaddon> gandalfcome: you'd probably be better off asking for support in #ubuntu
[00:42] <gandalfcome> mthaddon: okay, thanks
[00:42] <mthaddon> sure, np
[05:51] <winstonw> ok so i uploaded what I thought would be my final package to REVU, but i forgot to change the distro target and add the bug number for "needs packaing bug".  Should I resubmit or will the REVU people change this for me?
[10:34] <pef> hello
[10:36] <iulian> Hi
[10:50] <rkakkar> Hi
[11:17] <JeremyBicha> I hate the Firefox multisearch experiment, fortunately I can disable that addon
[16:10] <bluefoxicy> hey, a friend's having wireless problems with an acer laptop
[16:10] <bluefoxicy> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/318078 may be this
[18:13] <RioKuro> does anybody know how to set my global cflags?
[22:31] <MIPS-beginner> NCommander: Do you think we should take the OS X Snow Leopard approach and only support the n64 model in Ubuntu Loongson?
[22:52] <Keybuk> I don't like Leopard
[22:52] <Keybuk> it really narrows our naming for L
[22:53] <Daviey> Keybuk: Leaping Lice ?
[22:53] <Keybuk> I still wanted Kinky Koala
[22:54]  * Daviey notes Loon is an animal
[22:56] <davmor2> http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Animals_beginning_with_L
[22:56] <Daviey> Oh, and not forgeting the Leach
[22:56] <davmor2> lordly lion
[22:56] <Keybuk> Leaches!
[22:56]  * Keybuk has Stand By Me flashbacks
[22:57] <lifeless> Standing Snake?
[22:57] <Daviey> lifeless: keep up at the back!
[22:57] <maco> Leisurely Lemur?
[22:57] <lifeless> Daviey: I'm getting ahead :P
[22:57] <Daviey> Leisurely Loon, is somewhat better
[22:58] <maxb> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelopmentCodeNames :-)
[22:59] <maxb> Lofty Lemming?
[22:59] <maco> yeah i guess birds are better at leisure
[23:02] <Keybuk> Lang-sao Labrador
[23:02] <Keybuk> that's not a codename, it's a chinese delicacy
[23:02] <LaserJock> Leisurely doesn't exactly seem right if it's going to be an LTS release
[23:02] <directhex> LEMUR
[23:02] <Keybuk> sabdfl will chose Leopard just because ;)
[23:03] <directhex> wait, damn, remember the rules, shuttleworth picks names people DON'T talk about. um, anything but lemur!
[23:03] <directhex> lurid lipizaner!
[23:03] <Keybuk> Longhorn!
[23:03] <Daviey> Can it be lolzcats?
[23:03] <Keybuk> hahah
[23:03] <Keybuk> Laughing Lolcat!
[23:03] <Daviey> :)
[23:04] <ion> Lolling Lolcat
[23:04] <directhex> litigous llama!
[23:04] <davmor2> I think it should be lazy llama
[23:05] <directhex> but 10.04 won't be lazy, it'll be filled with omglolwtf amounts of hard work!
[23:06] <directhex> holy **** it's a liger get in the car!
[23:10] <maco> Keybuk: if it was true that the codenames weren't used outside of devel, lolcat would be win
[23:10] <davmor2> directhex: I've seen the damage a tiger can do to a piece of 3mm hardened sheet steel I don't think a liger will have much both getting through .5mm steel on a car not to mention the glass ;)
[23:11] <directhex> davmor2, maybe the guy who doesn't have time to get into said car will be enough to sate its apetite though
[23:11] <maco> right you dont have to be the fastest, just not-slowest
[23:11] <directhex> maco, im in ur distro, spreadin mono
[23:11] <maco> oh no, get the antibiotics
[23:11] <davmor2> directhex: no they eat sides of horse for a meal :)
[23:12] <directhex> davmor2, so... they're french then?
[23:13] <davmor2> leaping leprechaun, if we can have fictional rabbit with big pointy antlers why not little irishmen with big pointy green hats


[12:28] <cjwatson> evand: Joey's suggesting that the debconf debug log is lower-level, capturing everything that goes past without regard to what it is, and so shouldn't be treated as something that gets shipped around casually when passwords are involved, just like strace output
[12:29] <cjwatson> I dunno really
[12:29] <evand> ah, indeed
[12:50] <cjwatson> that's a bug in our current images - they're supposed to fit in 700MB
[12:51] <xivulon> I wanted to test the CD with Wubi. Hopefully using daemon tools or something like that I'll be able to go around it (at least for the wubi part)
[12:51] <evand> xivulon: testing the installer using CDs will get quite expensive real quick.
[12:52] <evand> VM?
[12:52] <evand> oh, I guess that wouldn't work here
[12:52] <evand> wait no, I've done it before
[12:52] <xivulon> evand don't have a windows license for full VM testing
[12:52] <evand> nevermind me
[12:53] <evand> ah
[12:53] <xivulon> I did use VM but only for testing lupin inside ext3, but now cannot do that either because of unionfs
[01:52] <xivulon> is there a way to detect when safe mode boot (acpi=off & co) should be used?
[01:55] <cjwatson> it's a kernel bug if that's needed. much better to report such problems so that kernel quirks can be added
[01:55] <cjwatson> if we had an authoritative way to detect that, it could simply be added to the kernel so that it wasn't necessary
[01:56] <xivulon> I guess I have such bug :P
[09:10] <superm1_> whoops, somehow ubiquity-frontend-mythbuntu is showing up in gnome-app-install now that it's including an icon.  how do you guys keep normal ubiquity frontend gtk and kde out of there?
[10:42] <cjwatson> superm1_: I don't remember doing anything special (which is not to say I didn't); check with mvo
[11:58] <soren> Can I somehow tell ubiquity to use a proxy?
[11:59] <cjwatson> soren: just set the standard GNOME proxy
[12:00] <soren> duh
[12:00] <soren> cjwatson: Of course, thanks!
[12:00] <cjwatson> though I think you do have to do it before ubiquity starts
[12:00] <soren> Alright.
[12:01] <cjwatson> I'd take a patch to have it go poke GNOME just before it first cares about the proxy
[12:01] <soren> How very nice of you :)
[12:02] <cjwatson> heh
[03:07] <stgraber> cjwatson: ping
[03:07] <cjwatson> stgraber: pong
[03:07] <stgraber> cjwatson: Hi, I'm doing a netinstall with a preseed file and would like to download two files using the early_command, is that possible ?
[03:07] <cjwatson> should be, the network is up at that point
[03:08] <cjwatson> the preseed file itself is downloaded, after all
[03:09] <stgraber> giving two parameters to wget doesn't work and using && doesn't work seem to work either
[03:11] <stgraber> ok, I just checked and indeed the busybox wget can only take one URL as argument, so do you know a way to start two commands using early_command ?
[03:13] <thom> stgraber: something like
[03:13] <thom> preseed/early_command   string  wget -O /tmp/early_command http://ubuntu.somewhere/d-i/scripts/early_command && sh /tmp/early_command
[03:14] <thom> where what you wget is a shell script
[03:14] <thom> works fine
[03:14] <stgraber> oh, strange I'm pretty sure I tried that
[03:17] <cjwatson> don't see why it shouldn't, certainly
[03:18] <cjwatson> nothing special about && or indeed ; on the RHS of a preseed line
[03:18] <stgraber> ok, it worked looks like the file wasn't saved at the right place (it was opened by mc through ssh and saving it only save the temporary copy of it)
[07:07] <cjwatson> sigh, now wubi is crashing
[07:07] <cjwatson> and unionfs is still unhappy even with 1GB of memory; I guess the CD is slow enough that timing makes a difference
[07:26] <evand> if putting an older kernel on won't work, what would need to be backported to the gutsy daily from 20070908?  ubiquity, ubiquity-frontend-gtk, ubiquity-capser, lupin-casper, anything else?
[07:31] <cjwatson> older linux-image-*, linux-restricted-modules-*, linux-ubuntu-modules-* should be all
[07:31] <cjwatson> for older kernel
[07:32] <cjwatson> I seriously wouldn't try the backport, it's going to be a hideous time sink
[07:32] <evand> ok, I'll avoid it
[07:32] <cjwatson> fuse, ntfs-3g, lupin, ubiquity, casper, quite possibly other stuff
[07:33] <evand> gah
[07:33] <evand> I see your point
[09:53] <evand> cjwatson_: http://people.ubuntu.com/~evand/tmp/gutsy-desktop-amd64-20070919.1+linux-2.6.22-10.30.iso
[09:56] <cjwatson_> cool, downloading
[09:56] <evand> will it help you?  It's oversized.
[09:56] <cjwatson_> DVDs are a wonderful thing
[09:57] <evand> ah, indeed
[09:58] <cjwatson> wubi is being very unhappy at the moment though
[09:58] <cjwatson> I think I need xivulon's help
[09:59] <evand> for me it got as far as the ubuntu desktop, then I ran ubiquity --automatic -d and it went downhill from there.
[09:59] <evand> well, once it hit partman, that is
[10:06] <cjwatson> what happened?
[10:08] <evand> I believe it tried to ask a question.  I probably should've stayed in there.
[10:08] <evand> I can run it again if it would help you
[10:08] <cjwatson> if it's easy
[10:09] <evand> it is, it will just take about 15 minutes as something is causing the initramfs to take its sweet time to load
[10:11] <evand> xivulon: by the way, my entries in add/remove programs dont get removed on uninstall, though I seem to recall you being aware of this, correct?
[10:17] <cjwatson> same for me, nor the uninstaller itself
[10:24] <evand> uhh, shouldn't the ntfs filesystem be mounted somewhere?
[10:25] <cjwatson> should be move-mounted to /host
[10:27] <evand> negative.  Perhaps I screwed up the CD somehow?
[10:28] <evand> All I did was copy the linux kernel image over, install the debs for the previous kernel, then mkinitramfs'ed a new initrd
[10:29] <evand> it did preseed the installer properly though
[10:29] <cjwatson> you did install casper on your host system right/
[10:29] <cjwatson> ?
[10:29] <cjwatson> and lupin-casper
[10:30] <evand> can you explain that another way?  casper and lupin-casper were already on the CD I remastered.
[10:31] <cjwatson> you're running mkinitramfs on your normal system
[10:31] <cjwatson> it's using whatever's in /usr/share/initramfs-tools to do it
[10:32] <cjwatson> so you need to install casper and lupin-casper in order to install the hooks and scripts there to produce a working live CD initrd
[10:32] <evand> when I'm chrooted in the unpacked cd?
[10:32] <cjwatson> oh, hmm
[10:32] <cjwatson> not sure then
[10:33] <evand> it's definitely running through lupin-casper
[10:33] <evand> one sec, I'll upload casper.log
[10:35] <evand> http://people.ubuntu.com/~evand/tmp/casper.log
[10:35] <evand> is it falling over in 07find_preseed?
[10:35] <cjwatson> oh, of course, it doesn't need to mount the NTFS filesystem in lupin-style booting
[10:36] <evand> nevermind my last comment
[10:36] <cjwatson> grub4dos sucks the kernel and initrd off the disk directly
[10:36] <cjwatson> Linux never mounts it
[10:36] <cjwatson> this has confused me in the past
[10:36] <evand> I am quite confused at the moment
[10:36] <cjwatson> the short answer is no, the NTFS filesystem shouldn't be mounted
[10:39] <evand> hrm
[10:46] <evand> http://people.ubuntu.com/~evand/tmp/debug and http://people.ubuntu.com/~evand/tmp/partman
[10:46] <evand> still reading over it
[10:47] <xivulon> hi all I am back
[10:47] <evand> hi xivulon
[10:50] <evand> wow
[10:50] <xivulon> ok so in order
[10:50] <xivulon> re uninstallation
[10:50] <evand> oh, I think I did screw things up majorly here
[10:51] <xivulon> if you have vista, use easybcd to remove entries
[10:51] <xivulon> if you have xp edit boot.ini
[10:51] <xivulon> then remove the windows key manually
[10:51] <xivulon> then try to install uninstalling wubi
[10:51] <evand> both /lib/modules/2.6.22-11-generic/volatile and /lib/modules/2.6.22-10-generic/volatile are mounted
[10:52] <xivulon> use the wubi which is wubi-installer.org/devel/minefields
[10:52] <xivulon> what is the status of unionfs
[10:52] <xivulon> do we have an ISO capable of booting?
[10:52] <evand> xivulon: still broken
[10:52] <evand> sort of
[10:52] <xivulon> hmm
[10:52] <evand> I remastered one, but I think I messed it up
[10:52] <evand> as I forgot to remove the old kernel, and possibly do other things
[10:52] <xivulon> CD -> ISO extraction in wubi is broken at the moment
[10:53] <xivulon> wubi should extract the kernel
[10:53] <evand> the reason the install stops seems to be that /var has filled up.
[10:54] <xivulon> is something mounted inside ram by any chance?
[10:55] <xivulon> I have a few pending patches for wubi by the way, will upload shortly
[10:55] <xivulon> cjwatson, anything you need me for?
[11:04] <xivulon> cjwatson: quick ping (have to disconnect to test on the dark side)


[01:32] <mhall119> bastids?
[12:21] <munz> just re-arranging desk arealol bastids
[12:21] <munz> *lol bastids
[12:21] <munz> ???dont kno wht else had on that line
[12:21] <munz> toooooo early
[19:09] <RoAkSoAx> itnet7: ping
[19:10] <RoAkSoAx> itnet7: ping
[19:23] <itnet7> RoAkSoAx: pong


[13:05] <chrisccoulson> micahg, the new apport hook prevents people from reporting bugs if it detects that they've upgraded without restarting firefox \o/
[16:17] <micahg> chrisccoulson: cool :)
[16:17] <chrisccoulson> micahg, i've got it logging all the customised prefs from about:support too
[16:20] <micahg> chrisccoulson: cool
[17:49] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, either the xorg package hook takes a very long time, or it's hung
[17:50] <chrisccoulson> i wanted to add all the graphics info too :/
[20:42] <BUGabundo> evening!! :D
[21:53] <chrisccoulson_> lol @ http://whatsmybrowserversion.com/
[21:53] <chrisccoulson_> m_conley_away, i just saw your retweet ;)
[21:58] <BUGabundo> chrisccoulson_: wth is the mouse scroll inverted on that site?
[21:58] <BUGabundo> WTH
[23:04] <BUGabundo> nite