[04:14] <shtylman> cjwatson: how much heat have you gotten over the grub2 move?
[04:14] <shtylman> bug report after bug report it seems :/
[04:16] <cjwatson> way too much
[04:16] <cjwatson> I still think it's the right decision but there is clearly lots of work to do
[04:17] <shtylman> cjwatson: I agree with you... I think standing in one place esp. with legacy stuff will just hurt the longer you put it off
[04:17] <shtylman> cjwatson: I think too many people have the wrong attitude about the grub2 move
[04:18] <shtylman> at least that is impression I get from some of the bug reports
[04:18] <shtylman> they are using alpha software and seem to treat it like a finished product...
[04:20] <cjwatson> I understand people's frustration, but the level of abuse in many cases is out of order, and I'm doing my best to disregard it
[04:20] <shtylman> :)
[04:21] <cjwatson> the receptiveness I've had from upstream has been amazing
[04:21] <cjwatson> it's definitely worth being in on the ground floor sometimes
[04:21] <shtylman> thats good
[04:21] <cjwatson> they're going "finally, users"
[04:22] <shtylman> I think all will turn out just fine...the major stuff will be ironed out and then it will be better for everyone
[04:22] <shtylman> hahaha
[04:22] <cjwatson> well, if you fancy helping with the ironing ... ;-)
[04:23] <shtylman> I do fancy helping...just don't know where I would be able to help without getting in the way...unfortunately my experience in booting the system is limited...and that is an overstatement...
[04:24] <cjwatson> it is not the easiest thing to get into
[04:24] <shtylman> I bet
[04:24] <cjwatson> various bits of installer integration still need work, such as dmraid handling
[04:25] <cjwatson> and kirkland reported that degraded raid support has regressed
[04:25] <shtylman> oh yea...I remember that request...
[04:25] <cjwatson> I don't mean dmraid in ubiquity or anything
[04:25] <cjwatson> it's a regression from grub1 handling
[04:26] <shtylman> so does that mean grub2 can't boot dmraid currently?
[04:28] <cjwatson> bug 420992
[04:29] <shtylman> oh boy...
[04:30] <shtylman> man...I would love to tackle that...I have a dmraid setup...but I don't even have the slightest clue of where to start...
[04:31] <shtylman> I can at least test potential fixes...that is a start I suppose
[04:31] <TheMuso> shtylman: I hope that the dmraid box is a dual boot with Windows on the same array. :)
[04:32] <shtylman> TheMuso: nope...I do all my windows stuff through virtual machines cause I rarely ever use it
[04:32] <shtylman> mostly need it to compile a few apps in windows for others
[04:39] <TheMuso> shtylman: Then why are you using dmraid? Its totally inferior to Linux Software RAID.
[04:40] <shtylman> TheMuso: how/why inferior? ... also... because it is bios supported raid basically cheap hardware raid...although still done on the cpu
[04:45] <TheMuso> shtylman: Because there is no real method to rebuild/monitor dmraid arrays from Linux for a start.
[04:46] <shtylman> dmraid does rebuild...
[04:46] <TheMuso> Only for intel software RAID.
[04:46] <shtylman> I see
[04:47] <shtylman> well...another nice thing about dmraid was that once activated...the graphical installer works with it..
[04:47] <shtylman> cause it sees it as a regular drive
[04:47] <shtylman> and can install onto it
[04:47] <TheMuso> Dmraid also acitvates degraded arrays, without even checking things. I.e it will activate an array even if there is only one drive in a RAID 1 array for example.
[04:47] <shtylman> versus no raid in ubiquity otherwide..
[04:47] <shtylman> I see
[04:47] <TheMuso> Ubuntu/debian now has a wrapper script to attempt to take care of it, but its less than ideal.
[04:47] <shtylman> didn't know that...cause i use raid0
[04:48] <TheMuso> right, then thats not really raid. :)
[04:48] <shtylman> well..right... :)
[04:48] <shtylman> but I still gotta call it raid...
[04:48] <shtylman> at least it still falls into that category
[04:54] <TheMuso> right
[04:54]  * shtylman loves his raid0 setup
[05:05] <TheMuso> I hope you keep your data backed up.
[07:20] <CIA-33> usb-creator: rgreening * r140 usb-creator/ (7 files in 5 dirs): (log message trimmed)
[07:20] <CIA-33> usb-creator: * Update KDE TODO
[07:20] <CIA-33> usb-creator: * Bump version in setup.py, kde_about.py, usb-creator-gtk to 0.2.4
[07:20] <CIA-33> usb-creator: * General clean-up in usb-creator-kde to mirror current usb-creator-gtk
[07:20] <CIA-33> usb-creator:  - remove _fail, excepthook def's as not needed
[07:20] <CIA-33> usb-creator:  - remove trace options
[07:20] <CIA-33> usb-creator:  - remove safe command line option
[08:04] <CIA-33> usb-creator: rgreening * r141 usb-creator/ (TODO debian/changelog usbcreator/frontends/kde/frontend.py):
[08:04] <CIA-33> usb-creator: * General clean-up in kde/frontend.py
[08:04] <CIA-33> usb-creator:  - remove unused setup_sources_treeview and setup_targets_treeview
[08:04] <CIA-33> usb-creator:  - temporarily disable format and other buttons as they are currently broken
[08:04] <CIA-33> usb-creator: * Update TODO for some broken items to fix
[08:44] <davmor2> cjwatson: morning this is the wubi/ubiquity bug that is causing all the wubi tests to fail https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/421873.  Apparently it's a copy of another bug but I kept it separate being as it is only on the wubi install that I'm having the issues.
[09:33] <davmor2> xivulon: morning dude do you have 5 minutes?
[09:33] <xivulon> yes davmor2
[09:33] <xivulon> morning
[09:34] <xivulon> cjwatson, by the way yesterday reinstalled XP inside of kvm and now grub2 works :)
[09:34] <davmor2> bug 421873 and bug 421909
[09:34] <xivulon> I wouldn't be overly concerned about it, the previous vm has been heavily tortured
[09:35] <davmor2> xivulon: both found yesterday testing wubi
[09:38] <xivulon> 421909 is probably due to the size check again, patch 144 compensates for free space but that is not enough
[09:39] <xivulon> let me have a chat with evand, we might enable DVD's altogether and be done with it
[09:40] <xivulon> 421873 I haven't reached that far yesterday, was able to boot again only this morning :)
[09:42] <davmor2> xivulon: 421909 I ran on a standard machine thinking it might be down to space but it still didn't show up
[09:44] <xivulon> There are 2 items in the log:  umount: /host: device is busy ;  and /lib/partman/choose_partition/Finish: not found
[09:45] <xivulon> does 421909 happen with a CD? If so can you pastebin the wubi log?
[09:50] <davmor2> xivulon: no the cds have been fine it is only on unr and kne on pendrives
[09:53] <xivulon> What is the size of the pendrive you are using? Should be less than max_iso_size
[09:53] <xivulon> try to edit data/isolist.ini and change max_iso_size, recompule wubi and see if it works
[09:57] <davmor2> xivulon: 4GB and an 8GB but I restrict it to iso size plus 128kb persist
[09:57] <davmor2> I'll have a look at it
[09:58] <davmor2> xivulon: I just pulled version 148
[10:04] <davmor2> bugger I don't have grub2 on my jaunty box meh
[10:10] <xivulon> davmor2: install these 2 packages:
[10:10] <xivulon> http://packages.ubuntu.com/karmic/grub-common
[10:10] <xivulon> http://packages.ubuntu.com/karmic/grub-pc
[10:10] <xivulon> it will work from jaunty
[10:14] <davmor2> xivulon: building
[10:19] <davmor2> xivulon: right I change the 9 at the begining to a 20 and now it is showing up again :)
[10:20] <davmor2> 20 is probably too big but I wanted to be on the safe side :)
[10:20] <xivulon> yes so that confirms it is a size check issue, please comment on bug report
[10:29] <davmor2> xivulon: will do :)
[10:33] <davmor2> xivulon: any chance of getting that in today as evand isn't in and it would be nice to be able to test wubi on unr and kne properly although I'll have a little play with it, with my local build and see if it dies at the same point as the others which will at least mean that all the wubi's are on an even playing field :)
[10:46] <xivulon> I can do that tonight, but it's my wedding anniversary, so low chance
[10:46] <xivulon> most likely by tomorro night
[10:48] <davmor2> :) happy anniversary :)
[11:41] <cjwatson> I have no idea what's causing 421873; the log is uninformative :(
[11:47] <davmor2> cjwatson: I don't suppose it's something daft like devicekit-disks mounting all the drives it sees or something is it?
[11:48] <cjwatson> unrelated
[11:49] <cjwatson> exit code 127 suggests that grub-installer is falling over for lack of some tool, but there's nothing in the log to say what
[11:49] <cjwatson> and that's just a guess ...
[11:49] <cjwatson> davmor2: can you manage to arrange for the installer to run with the --debug option somehow?
[11:53] <davmor2> cjwatson: that's in the kernel line yes?  I'll see what I can do
[11:54] <cjwatson> no
[11:54] <davmor2> oh
[11:54] <cjwatson> try debug-ubiquity in the kernel line, maybe
[11:55] <davmor2> right
[12:01] <CIA-33> console-setup: cjwatson * r111 ubuntu/ (Keyboard/KeyboardNames.pl debian/changelog): releasing version 1.34ubuntu2
[12:01] <davmor2> cjwatson: just dropping vista back on to install against so might take a bit
[12:34] <davmor2> cjwatson: where will the debug info be? in the standard logs or somewhere else?
[12:37] <cjwatson> standard
[12:37] <cjwatson> specifically in /var/log/installer/debug
[12:38] <davmor2> I'll post all the logs to the bug report then
[12:45] <davmor2> cjwatson: right added debug and new syslog
[12:55] <cjwatson> I can't see how that code *ever* worked
[12:55] <CIA-33> grub-installer: cjwatson * r799 ubuntu/ (debian/changelog grub-installer):
[12:55] <CIA-33> grub-installer: Restrict code to generate device.map for loop installations to GRUB
[12:55] <CIA-33> grub-installer: Legacy (LP: #421873).
[12:58] <CIA-33> grub-installer: cjwatson * r800 ubuntu/ (debian/changelog grub-installer): Fix said code to run grub chrooted into /target.
[12:58] <cjwatson> oh, I suppose it would have worked in ubiquity
[13:00] <davmor2> cjwatson: I'm guessing that the debug log was a bit more useful then :)
[13:00] <cjwatson> yeah
[13:01] <cjwatson> of course it may still fail somewhere else, that just fixed the immediate problem
[13:02] <davmor2> cjwatson: cool any chance of a respin I'd like to know if it works today rather than finding out during main testing tomorrow
[13:05] <cjwatson> well, bear with me, I need to get some other grub-installer changes in too
[13:07] <davmor2> cjwatson: yeah np's any time today will do I'd just hate to find something else now wubi is this close to working :)
[13:07] <cjwatson> oh, and a bunch of installer translation updates for a5, argh
[13:13] <CIA-33> cdrom-detect: cjwatson * r448 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 1.31ubuntu2
[13:17] <AnAnt> Hello, can someone see this bug LP 416949 please ?
[13:18] <CIA-33> partman-auto-lvm: cjwatson * r226 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 33ubuntu2
[13:18] <cjwatson> AnAnt: queued for when I have a moment
[13:21] <CIA-33> partman-auto: cjwatson * r300 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 87ubuntu2
[13:22] <CIA-33> partman-base: cjwatson * r167 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 133ubuntu2
[13:22] <AnAnt> cjwatson: you mean the backport for scancodes bug ?
[13:23] <CIA-33> partman-crypto: cjwatson * r688 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 37ubuntu3
[13:23] <AnAnt> cjwatson: or the layout toggle issue ?
[13:24] <cjwatson> AnAnt: no, I mean I'll look at your layout toggle bug when I have a moment. I already backported the scancodes thing, which is purely cosmetic and nothing whatsoever to do with your bug
[13:24] <AnAnt> cjwatson: ok
[13:24] <AnAnt> thanks
[13:24] <cjwatson> all the Debian change does is silence a warning, nothing mnore
[13:24] <cjwatson> more
[13:25] <AnAnt> yeah
[13:25] <CIA-33> partman-lvm: cjwatson * r1229 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 66ubuntu3
[13:26] <CIA-33> partman-md: cjwatson * r942 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 46ubuntu2
[13:28] <CIA-33> partman-target: cjwatson * r773 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 62ubuntu2
[13:29] <CIA-33> pkgsel: cjwatson * r149 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 0.25ubuntu2
[13:31] <CIA-33> user-setup: cjwatson * r205 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 1.27ubuntu10
[13:34] <mterry> cjwatson, heyo.  I don't know if it's worth trying to push the plugin work in for Alpha5, but if you have extra time (har), the FFE bug for it (bug 419989) is blocked on your review.  But, I don't really think it matters if it goes in before a5.  Just giving you a heads up
[13:40] <cjwatson> davmor2: if it's using grub2, I rather suspect that the bootdev_directory stuff won't work
[13:40] <cjwatson> davmor2: nobody has taken the time to update that to grub2 yet
[13:41] <davmor2> cjwatson: I'm assuming it is as I couldn't build it earlier
[13:42] <davmor2> due to the lack of grub2 deps
[13:43] <cjwatson> xivulon: should I just force wubi installations to use grub1 for now? this is surely going to take a certain amount of work
[13:44] <CIA-33> grub-installer: cjwatson * r801 ubuntu/ (10 files in 3 dirs): merge from Debian 1.42
[13:45] <cjwatson> hmm, wubi trunk has grub2 bits in it ...
[13:47] <cjwatson> but only for booting the installer, if I'm reading this right?
[13:51] <CIA-33> grub-installer: cjwatson * r802 ubuntu/grub-installer: merge typo: missing fi
[13:53] <CIA-33> grub-installer: cjwatson * r803 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 1.42ubuntu1
[13:58] <NCommander> cjwatson, do you have plans for one more d-i upload before A5 or is it all done?
[14:17] <davmor2> cjwatson: so is that a fix then, crosses fingers
[14:27] <AnAnt> I'll have to go now
[14:27] <AnAnt> bye
[14:33] <cjwatson> NCommander: planning one more
[14:33] <cjwatson> davmor2: with luck, though it'll need a ubiquity upload
[14:33] <cjwatson> mterry: you have a review in LP now
[14:34] <davmor2> cjwatson: Cool nice one :)
[14:36] <CIA-33> debian-installer: cjwatson * r1144 ubuntu/ (10 files in 3 dirs): Move to 2.6.31-9 kernels.
[14:36] <mterry> cjwatson, cool, will respond
[15:02] <NCommander> cjwatson, I'm hoping to have installable dove images for A5 if possible, but I need one kernel upload which may happen today (bjf is working on it, but most of the kernel team is scrambling to get to St. Lois)
[15:02] <NCommander> cjwatson, I need the partman-auto changes, and flash-kernel changes (the later which is dep-wait on the kernel) merged, I dunno if thats possible for A5 though
[15:04] <cjwatson> bug# for those?
[15:08] <NCommander> cjwatson, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/partman-auto/+bug/409238
[15:14] <CIA-33> partman-auto: cjwatson * r301 ubuntu/ (6 files in 3 dirs): merge lp:~mcasadevall/partman-auto/dove_soc
[15:14] <cjwatson> NCommander: what does "a udev partition type" mean? is that a typo?
[15:15] <NCommander> cjwatson, I'd like to add a partman-udev similiar to partman-efi in the future, instead of simply having a separate boot
[15:15] <cjwatson> udev?
[15:15] <NCommander> er
[15:15] <NCommander> uboot
[15:15] <NCommander> wow
[15:15] <NCommander> Not only did I typo, I managed to read the wrong thing
[15:15] <cjwatson> that makes more sense :)
[15:15] <NCommander> *sighs*
[15:15] <NCommander> I've been working on this too many days without a sanity break
[15:15] <CIA-33> partman-auto: cjwatson * r302 ubuntu/debian/changelog: typos
[15:21] <NCommander> cjwatson, thanks
[15:27] <CIA-33> partman-auto: cjwatson * r303 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 87ubuntu3
[15:30] <NCommander> cjwatson, \o/
[15:31] <cjwatson> no flash-kernel patch to review?
[15:40] <NCommander> cjwatson, not yet, waiting for the next kernel upload to adjust my patch. I don't want to give you something untested
[15:40] <NCommander> cjwatson, the kernel going from uImages to zImages so my patch isn't 100% valid anymore :-)
[16:04] <CIA-33> ubiquity: mterry * r3361 plugins2/ (26 files in 6 dirs): fixups from colin's review; add a PluginUI base class, use a debug() method in it, use plugins/ instead of plugins.d/, some style cleanup
[16:22] <AnAnt> cjwatson: Hello, did you have time for the console-setup bug ?
[16:23] <CIA-33> ubiquity: superm1 * r3414 ubiquity/ (debian/changelog gui/gtk/mythbuntu_stepDrivers.ui):
[16:23] <CIA-33> ubiquity: * Mythbuntu frontend:
[16:23] <CIA-33> ubiquity:  - Fix a crash caused by two GtkCellRendererText's having the same
[16:23] <CIA-33> ubiquity:  id. A recent upload of gtk is less forgiving of this error.
[16:23] <CIA-33> ubiquity:  (LP: #422621)
[16:24] <cjwatson> AnAnt: not yet, no
[16:24] <AnAnt> ok
[16:35] <CIA-33> usb-creator: rgreening * r144 usb-creator/ (7 files in 5 dirs):
[16:35] <CIA-33> usb-creator: * Updated TODO list and added some comments for items to fix
[16:35] <CIA-33> usb-creator: * Updated man pages
[16:35] <CIA-33> usb-creator: * Updated some licence info in kde frontend to GPLv3+
[16:42] <rgreening> cjwatson: any idea when evand will be back?
[16:42] <superm1> cjwatson, given pitti's ack, were you thinking to merge mterry's plugins branch pre a5 or shortly thereafter?
[16:43] <cjwatson> rgreening: tomorrow I think
[16:44] <cjwatson> superm1: post, I think - it's a pretty huge branch and I'd be worried about screwing over a5
[16:44] <rgreening> ok. cool. lots of stuff to fix in usb-creator :)
[16:44] <mterry> superm1, cjwatson: Agreed, especially since I'm making some API changes post-cjwatson-review.  Wouldn't want those last minute changes to screw something up
[16:46] <superm1> cjwatson, mterry, ok.  well, will need to do another ubiquity upload before a5 because of that above bug that crept up i just fixed. anything else others would like to get in then?
[16:47] <cjwatson> also need a ubiquity upload for all the d-i bits I uploaded earlier
[16:47] <rgreening> shtylman: ubiquity under kubuntu looks sweet. just fully tested last night on my netbook
[16:47] <cjwatson> partman-auto 87ubuntu3 should become available for update in about an hour
[16:47] <mterry> cjwatson, speaking of, I'm looking at making the non-API-namespace change, and I think it would be far less intrusive and easier to write plugins if we namespace API members instead.  Something like 'plugin_'.  By far, most members are internal to the plugins.  Any objection?
[16:48] <rgreening> shtylman: only things was noticeable "slowness" from timezone onward... pages seemed to take quite a while. COuld be my issue. but just wanted to let you know in case it wasn't.
[16:48] <cjwatson> just to clarify terminology - is 'optional_widgets', say, API or non-API?
[16:48] <superm1> cjwatson, okay i'll hold off until partman-auto clears to upload then
[16:48] <CIA-33> usb-creator: rgreening * r145 usb-creator/TODO: Another TODO/Fix item
[16:51] <mterry> cjwatson, it's API (anything the frontend would use)
[16:52] <cjwatson> mterry: no objections, then; it matters more that we stick to it
[16:53] <mterry> cjwatson, agreed  :)
[16:58] <xivulon> cjwatson, yes grub2 should be ok for booting
[16:58] <xivulon> I expect that the linux side of things should be manageable
[16:58] <xivulon> I wouldn't go back to grub 1
[16:59] <xivulon> I didn't do much work (on the liunux side) so far because I could not have grub2 to boot at all within vb
[17:00] <xivulon> but now I can boot via kvm so I will try to make this thing work in the coming days
[17:01] <cjwatson> xivulon: what takes care of telling the installed grub how to get at the /boot directory?
[17:02] <xivulon> cjawston by finding a file
[17:02] <xivulon> there is an embedded grub.cfg inside of wubildr
[17:02] <CIA-33> usb-creator: rgreening * r146 usb-creator/ (debian/changelog desktop/usb-creator-kde.desktop.in): * Remove settings categories to de-clutter the KDE menu (settings doesn't make all that much sense for KDE)
[17:03] <xivulon> that  sets the root to the partition containing /ubuntu/boot/grub/grub.cfg
[17:03] <xivulon> I knwow, I should have used UUIDs...
[17:04] <xivulon> the above embedded config then loads  /ubuntu/boot/grub/grub.cfg
[17:04] <cjwatson> ok
[17:06] <xivulon> data/wubildr.cfg is the embedded config
[17:07] <xivulon> In /ubuntu/boot/grub/grub.cfg there is therefore no need to set the grub root device
[17:07] <xivulon> Only the relative path
[17:09] <xivulon> So we had something like: root=()/ubuntu/boot
[17:13] <xivulon> I haven't looked at the new update-grub, but I'd assume we should be able to put the required modifications in a dedicated grub script, possibly installed by lupin-grub or something like that
[17:16] <xivulon> cjwatson ^
[17:18] <CIA-33> ubiquity: superm1 * r3415 ubiquity/ (debian/changelog scripts/mythbuntu/mythbuntu_install.py):
[17:18] <CIA-33> ubiquity: Reconfigure mysql-server-5.1 rather than 5.0 since 5.1 is what's
[17:18] <CIA-33> ubiquity: now in main.
[17:21] <cjwatson> xivulon: yes, that's what I was thinking
[17:21] <cjwatson> xivulon: or just lupin-support, I don't think it needs a new package
[17:32] <kirkland> cjwatson: arethe fsck failures on first boot after install understood?
[17:40] <cjwatson> first I've heard
[17:48] <CIA-33> ubiquity: cjwatson * r3416 ubiquity/ (5 files in 4 dirs):
[17:48] <CIA-33> ubiquity: Re-enable encrypted home option; apparently all the dependencies are in
[17:48] <CIA-33> ubiquity: place now.
[18:19] <CIA-33> usb-creator: rgreening * r147 usb-creator/ (3 files in 3 dirs):
[18:19] <CIA-33> usb-creator: Disable persistence - it's currently broken, and if user is able to select persistence, it will
[18:19] <CIA-33> usb-creator: yield a non-functional startup disk. So, disabled until can be fixed.
[18:21] <rgreening> cjwatson: we may want to bump a new version of usb-creator based on above commit I have made.
[18:22] <rgreening> currently any attempt to use persistence causes a nonfunctional startup disk to be made (for the gtk and kde version)
[18:24] <rgreening> cjwatson: let me bump the version strings first though...
[18:25] <superm1> why is it breaking now?
[18:25] <CIA-33> usb-creator: rgreening * r148 usb-creator/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Bump version strings for new release
[18:26] <rgreening> superm1: I have no idea when it last worked.. just that it isn't...
[18:26] <rgreening> and possibly hasn't for a while
[18:27] <rgreening> and I've done some exptensive testing on Karmic for both frontends... all end in the same result - b0rked with persistence
[18:28] <superm1> well here's a better question then; how is it broke? what is visibly broke about it?
[18:28] <superm1> have you gotten any of this in a bug report yet?
[18:28] <rgreening> maybe the current kernel is at fault and unable to load the casper file
[18:28] <rgreening> superm1: umm. I develop it
[18:28] <rgreening> lol
[18:28] <rgreening> I'm noting and fixing as I go.
[18:28] <rgreening> unless you want to take the reins?
[18:29]  * rgreening is feeling evil atm
[18:29] <superm1> rgreening, i know, you work on it :).  i was just wondering if there was a bunch of debug information around what was borked with persistence in the first place
[18:29] <rgreening> not that I know of... Never saw any reports.
[18:30] <rgreening> I am just testing the kde version since evand swapped out the Hal backend for devicekit disks and I never had a chance to see what the changes were.
[18:30] <rgreening> Now that I have, and I am testing, these are the things I have found and either fixed or implemented work arounds fo r
[18:30] <rgreening> all noted in bzr, changelog and comments in the code :)
[18:31] <rgreening> Hopefully when evan gets back, I can address the outstranding issues
[18:31] <superm1> well before you go and disable persistence in the code, it would be a good idea to have a bug report to indicate how/why it's broken, so when that bug gets fixed, know to re-enable it in the code
[18:31] <rgreening> at least we have a functional gtk/kde version with these changes (even if somewhat crippled intentionally)
[18:33] <rgreening> true enuff... I'm just in triage help-me-god mode :)
[18:33]  * rgreening launches launchpad...
[18:38] <rgreening> superm1: hmm bug #276822 seems to be relevant (missed that one)
[18:39] <rgreening> possibly... or at least may hint me a direction for a fix
[18:40] <superm1> lots of mixed feedback there
[18:40] <superm1> especially since people are testing all over different versions
[18:40] <superm1> and persistence didn't work in 8.04.1 and maybe 8.04.2
[18:43] <rgreening> true, but at this point I had no idea where to start looking for a fix... getting the casper.log for eample :)
[18:43] <CIA-33> ubiquity: superm1 * r3417 ubiquity/ (d-i/manifest debian/changelog debian/control):
[18:43] <CIA-33> ubiquity: Automatic update of included source packages: console-setup
[18:43] <CIA-33> ubiquity: 1.34ubuntu2, grub-installer 1.42ubuntu1, partman-auto 87ubuntu3,
[18:43] <CIA-33> ubiquity: partman-base 133ubuntu2, partman-target 62ubuntu2, user-setup
[18:43] <CIA-33> ubiquity: 1.27ubuntu10.
[18:43]  * rgreening grabs the file to look at
[18:46]  * rgreening b0rked the ubs key
[18:46] <rgreening> :(
[18:47] <CIA-33> ubiquity: superm1 * r3418 ubiquity/debian/changelog: release 1.99.15 into karmic
[19:21] <CIA-33> ubiquity: mterry * r3362 plugins/ (24 files in 4 dirs): drop get_ui(), instead use namespaced members of the UI class
[19:45] <ogra> cjwatson, hmm, looking at Bug 422101 and at my own installation logs on imx51, we seem to have a logging issue
[22:24] <cjwatson> ogra: logs aren't copied until the very last step. if the installer crashes, logs may be lost.
[22:25] <cjwatson> ogra: but if that's not what's happening (i.e. the syslog is useless before rebooting), then ... I think you may be in a much better position to debug this than I am
[22:27] <JanC> this sounds like an important usability problem of the ubiquity installer: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/421407
[22:27]  * cjwatson reassigns that to the proper place
[22:27] <cjwatson> 10GB> absolutely not
[22:28] <cjwatson> that's far too big for a minimum, which is what that number is
[22:28] <cjwatson> the *default* is meant to be midway in between the minimum (currently 2.5GB) and whatever's available for resizing
[22:29] <cjwatson> and there's a load of uninformed speculation in that bug, so I'll look at it some other time when I have more temper to spare
[22:30] <cjwatson> thanks for mentioning it
[22:30] <davmor2> cjwatson: sweet answer :)
[22:31] <cjwatson> not really, I'm just fresh from stressful children-bedtime and so my background state is annoyed, sorry
[22:32] <davmor2> you forgot just move the chuffin' slider it's what it's there for :)
[22:33] <cjwatson> well, no, defaults should be reasonable
[22:33] <JanC> davmor2: one problem is that it's not obvious that it is a slider to start with
[22:35] <davmor2> cjwatson: I'm attempting a wubi install from 2009091.1 and just noticed that the initial disk setup went to 112%
[22:36] <davmor2> JanC: It's about as obvious as it can be.  The only thing I can think of to add is a piece of text that says move the slider to adjust partition size
[22:39] <cjwatson> davmor2: that'll have to wait for Evan to get back
[22:39] <cjwatson> I'm so far out of date with wubi it isn't funny :(
[22:44] <CIA-33> debian-installer: cjwatson * r1145 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 20081029ubuntu56
[23:16] <davmor2> cjwatson: on slide show in ubiquity firefox page is missing an image I have reported it, it is minor but it's just incase it's brought up
[23:17] <cjwatson> -> evand :-)
[23:22] <davmor2> cjwatson: I figured it would be but I thought a heads up would be good :)


[00:12] <wrst> but for some things a desktop still is the way to go, dealing with video for one
[00:15] <cyberanger> yeah, at that point you get to specialist in some hardware
[00:15] <cyberanger> and that isn't something many do mobile
[00:15] <cyberanger> some do, but not many
[00:18] <wrst> it gets very expensive mobile to do it
[00:25] <cyberanger> it easily could, depends on exactly how far you go with it
[00:25] <cyberanger> and if you do it for a living, an extra paycheck or two for being mobile can pay for the difference
[00:26] <wrst> yep that is true, i'm downloading the latest oneric or however you spell it cyberanger :)
[00:36] <cyberanger> have fun with that
[00:36] <cyberanger> I've pretty much moved to debian testing now
[00:37] <cyberanger> still some ubuntu, but the difference at this point is only visiable in one file
[00:37] <wrst> well like to take a look but in a VM
[00:37] <cyberanger> /etc/apt/sources.list
[00:37] <wrst> :)
[00:38] <wrst> cyberanger:  I would really like to like debain, if i had servers that mattered it would run debian but on desktop just not that great for me
[00:40] <cyberanger> wrst: for a person favoring gnome3 over unity, I'm suprised to hear you say that
[00:41] <wrst> cyberanger: well its just more effort to get debian going for me, and arch is really pretty simple
[00:41] <wrst> but since you said that cyberanger off i go to try debian testing ina  VM
[00:41] <cyberanger> I think it's easier than you'd think
[00:42] <cyberanger> I however, go a little out of may way on the howto step by step's
[00:42] <cyberanger> lock the doors tighter, automate some things further, others I remove the automation
[00:42] <cyberanger> make them human iniated only
[00:43] <wrst> well downloading the netinstall image
[00:43] <wrst> cyberanger:  and this will never need to be "upgraded" pretty much a rolling release?
[00:44] <cyberanger> that's a reasonable choice, I usually don't do that (since I like having offline capability, or install on celluar cards, and netinst leaves out ppp support)
[00:45] <wrst> in a VM figured this should be good,
[00:45] <cyberanger> it can be, change /etc/apt/sources.list from wheezy to testing
[00:45] <cyberanger> oh yeah
[00:45] <cyberanger> and in alot of my cases, it is for me
[00:45] <wrst> i thought wheezy was testing?
[00:45] <cyberanger> yes, but squeeze was testing, but testing stays testing
[00:46] <cyberanger> symlink
[00:46] <cyberanger> (and the installer you grabbed you need to check it was testing and not stable)
[00:46] <wrst> gothcha and wheezy will become stable when its the new stable
[00:46] <cyberanger> yep
[00:46] <wrst> well with debian that may be 5 years so i have time ;)
[00:47] <cyberanger> codenames, just like oneric or whatnot is alpha or beta now, but will be a stable release (only ubuntu has no offical unstable & testing branch)
[00:48] <wrst> gotcha like mandriva has cooker and if you stay on cooker you always get the new stuff
[00:52] <cyberanger> cooker being unstable, like sid, or like 'testing' which for the moment is wheezy
[00:53] <wrst> testing
[00:53] <cyberanger> but yeah, you have the idea, 'testing' never moves, all the safe but untested stuff leaves sid for testing
[00:53] <cyberanger> and testing gets a codename, to prepare for the next stable, like ubuntu has oneric now
[00:53] <wrst> so sid is untested?
[00:54] <cyberanger> unstable, actually
[00:54] <cyberanger> but yeah, to compare to wheezy, sid isn't tested
[00:54] <wrst> gotcha, arch has a testing repo... and well its I think you could say unstable
[00:54] <cyberanger> it works, but it's raw code pretty much
[00:54] <wrst> so goes from sid, then to wheezy?
[00:55] <wrst> or unstable to testing?
[00:55] <cyberanger> somebody made it, goes there, works or not (usually it works, just not tested for conflicts with something else)
[00:55] <cyberanger> testing (atm wheezy, but testing will be something else soon enough) plucks stuff from sid
[00:56] <cyberanger> not an outright freeze
[00:56] <wrst> hmm cyberanger i have kernel options 486, 686-pae
[00:56] <cyberanger> then testing (under it's codename) goes in a development range, and the codename status changes to stable
[00:57] <cyberanger> wrst: did you enable pae in virtualbox settings?
[00:57] <cyberanger> physical address extensions
[00:57] <wrst> no i didn't and i'm not over 4GB even on the host machine
[00:57] <wrst> yes just curious 486 vs. 686?
[00:57] <cyberanger> other benifits, you should still be early enough, power off, enable pae, then 686-pae
[00:58] <cyberanger> 486 works, but meant for old machines
[00:58] <wrst> ok what i suspected but haven't seen that option or haven't noticed it atleast
[00:58] <cyberanger> and by old, I mean 95-2000 era hardware
[00:58] <cyberanger> it's not in the start wizard
[00:59] <cyberanger> settings, system, motherboard if I recall
[00:59] <cyberanger> then boot debian installer again
[00:59] <cyberanger> (done it out of habit so much, forgot about that)
[00:59] <wrst> yeah i chose the 686
[00:59] <cyberanger> but not 686-pae?
[01:00] <wrst> no just 686
[01:00] <cyberanger> it works, more favored over 486, less than 686-pae though
[01:01] <wrst> well no doubt i will be doing this again :)
[01:02] <cyberanger> memory is the main thing people think of, but there are some other benifits
[01:02] <wrst> yeah well i'm just curious to get it working now anyway
[01:02] <cyberanger> I've just sorta done it for so long, I forget why I do
[01:03] <cyberanger> lol, yeah
[01:03] <wrst> well i do like the new login manager in 11.10
[01:04] <wrst> cyberanger:  debian desktop environment? what is that gnome I'm guessing
[01:04] <wrst> i'm thinking in the past it just said gnome
[01:04] <wrst> but been a few months
[01:05] <wrst> and cyberanger some neat things, jockey notes that you need to upgrade vbox guest additions very cool
[01:10] <cyberanger> wrst: yeah, they have other options, a fan of xfce and lxde
[01:10] <cyberanger> but that (should still be) gnome
[01:11] <cyberanger> yeah, debian has moved away from some of it's GNU & FSF only princibals
[01:12] <wrst> well that may upset richard stallman but...
[01:12] <cyberanger> they've actually made the main branch fully compliant recently, but they've made it easier for non-free contrib and restricted to be used
[01:12] <wrst> a new member to the team cyberanger, you know what would be nice to have some sort of info packet or something to send new members
[01:13] <cyberanger> some via jockey, other methods too
[01:13] <cyberanger> they're becoming open minded some, being wise, and cautious
[01:13] <wrst> yea cyberanger when i was trying to use non-free it was  pain in the rear
[01:14] <cyberanger> wrst: a change in topic, you mean our loco, new members with an information packet?
[01:14] <cyberanger> or a new debian user
[01:14] <wrst> cyberanger: check your email new loco member :P
[01:14] <wrst> but yeah something to let them know what we do where / how to communicate that type of thing?
[01:15] <cyberanger> not even 10 minutes ago, yeah
[01:15] <cyberanger> but your timing, I had to wonder a little
[01:16] <cyberanger> it would, if maintained
[01:16] <wrst> my phone beeped so got right on it
[01:16] <cyberanger> I saw it in mutt
[01:16] <wrst> yeah that's the thing keeping something like that maintained, good point
[01:17] <cyberanger> makes me wonder if we ever did that before
[01:18]  * cyberanger spends more time updating his own documentation on things, that actually using the same documents
[01:18] <cyberanger> waist of bloddy time
[01:18] <wrst> well we all gotta waste time doing something :)
[01:19] <cyberanger> yeah, but that is one thing that's slowed me down on swissknife-router
[01:20] <cyberanger> and I've already got enough excuses on those delays
[01:21] <wrst> well i have everything downloaded now its installing woo hoo
[01:22] <cyberanger> that's great
[01:23] <wrst> yeah i'm going from 10/1 to 6/768 internet at the new place that's a bummer
[01:26] <cyberanger> 6M down 768k up?
[01:26] <wrst> yes
[01:26] <cyberanger> that's not bad
[01:26] <cyberanger> worse than before, but not real bad
[01:26] <cyberanger> best I had was 6 down & 1 up
[01:26] <wrst> no i'm really enjoying this speed
[01:27] <cyberanger> worst I had was well, 33.6k dial-up modem
[01:27] <cyberanger> or my iden phone of 20k
[01:27] <wrst> ouch
[01:28] <cyberanger> but nowadays a cheeseburger buys so much speed
[01:28] <cyberanger> hard drives are cheap, sneakernet it
[01:28] <wrst> cyberanger: unity is certainly improving
[01:28] <cyberanger> that's what I'm likely to do for a small time
[01:28] <cyberanger> when I get notice to packup and haul out for a little bit
[01:29] <cyberanger> (depending on virgin mobile (sprint) coverage, and landline access)
[01:30] <cyberanger> operate as I am, or on dial-up & wifi
[01:35] <wrst> hmm debian aborted
[01:35] <cyberanger> really, why?
[01:36] <wrst> no clue
[01:37] <wrst> trying again :)
[01:40] <cyberanger> well, I'd enable pae first
[01:40] <cyberanger> I know that worked again & again here
[01:41] <wrst> i did :)
[01:57] <wrst> here we go with the downloading again
[02:00] <cyberanger> hope it works this time
[02:05] <wrst> if it doesn't... well i can try again :)
[02:08] <wrst> i had two vm's running cyberanger i suppose that could have had something to do with it but should not have been a problem
[02:08] <orangeninja> cyberanger: Yes it still does have Ubuntu 10.04 on it
[02:10] <orangeninja> part of me wants to reformat all to linux. Other part wants to keep a small 30Gb windows partition and rest linux. but I would have to go back to factory to make windows part smaller
[02:11] <cyberanger> orangeninja: but you didn't tell the ubuntu installer to use the full disc, did you?
[02:12] <cyberanger> and potentailly overwrite the recovery partition somewhere in the process
[02:12] <orangeninja> nope, I still see it as the D drive. I even went into disk managment and set it as active. But F 11 at boot does nothing
[02:14] <cyberanger> hrm
[02:18] <Unit193> Use grub to boot it (SuperGrubDisk if you don't have grub on the partition)
[02:19] <Unit193> If you don't see grub on boot edit /etc/default/grub and the hidden timeout, run os-prober and update-grub
[02:19] <orangeninja> I have grub it makes me choose window or ubuntu every time I boot.
[02:19] <orangeninja> 2 window entrys just boot regular windows
[02:19] <cyberanger> orangeninja: what drive has the recovery partiton
[02:19] <Unit193> That's odd, normally there is a recovery option
[02:19] <cyberanger> /dev/sdXN
[02:20] <cyberanger> Unit193: HP's thrown some curveballs before (as my own HP Pavilion dv2742se has proven)
[02:20] <orangeninja> let me see if i can make a pic for you guys.... I need to clean old kernals but I never did because I thought I was going to reinstal untill I ran into this... heh
[02:21] <Unit193> cyberanger: I guess... Our Compaq has it just fine though :/  Who else is in swissknife with you anywho? (Figured it might be nicer than just flashing the it :P )
[02:22] <cyberanger> Unit193: you mean people developing it? or aware of it, assisted in some way or another, in an IRC channel, etc.
[02:23] <Unit193> cyberanger: I wasn't sure if the number was the same, but I was mostly thinking... Maybe channel, I don't know now :P
[02:24] <cyberanger> channel has wrst & myself, I've gotten assistance in some information from a few people involved in keryx
[02:24] <orangeninja> AHHHHHH!!! I am so sorry.... it was right there SDA2
[02:24] <orangeninja> I bet that is it.
[02:24] <cyberanger> the list is fairly small
[02:25] <cyberanger> orangeninja: /dev/sda2
[02:25] <cyberanger> does that match a grub2 entry?
[02:25] <orangeninja> I am making sure I got everything before I restore factory settings
[02:25] <orangeninja> I guess grub overides F 11, huh?
[02:26] <orangeninja> duh
[02:26] <cyberanger> or your hitting it too late, or something
[02:26] <cyberanger> but yeah, that's easily a possibility
[02:26] <orangeninja> nope, I have tried as soon as I power until I get the beeeeep!
[02:26] <cyberanger> HP tied in a bootloader chain, recovery first
[02:27] <cyberanger> grub in the MBR would adjust that chain
[02:27] <cyberanger> something that isn't a huge issue
[02:27] <cyberanger> but hp did other things over time
[02:27] <cyberanger> or more accurately, more ways to have things conflict
[02:28] <orangeninja> brb
[02:30] <wrst> 50% there cyberanger :)
[02:32] <cyberanger> wrst: so the question is the glass half full or half empty?
[02:32] <wrst> i'm going with full
[02:32] <cyberanger> (my answer, the glass is the wrong size)
[02:33] <cyberanger> wrst: ^
[02:33] <Juzzy> well technically
[02:33] <cyberanger> or my more scarsatic version, neither, some idiot gave me the wrong size glass
[02:33] <Juzzy> the glass is always full
[02:33] <Juzzy> unless it's half filled in a vacuum
[02:33] <wrst> cyberanger: i'm curoius about debian testing  while I like arch i really like the thought of being on debian all the time also
[02:34] <cyberanger> Juzzy: so one half is filled with nothing ;-)
[02:34] <Juzzy> "nothing"?
[02:34] <Juzzy> you mean oxygen, nitrogen, carbon dioxide, argon, etc?
[02:34] <Juzzy> in a gas form
[02:34] <Juzzy> :>
[02:34] <cyberanger> well, not in a vacum
[02:34] <wrst> cyberanger:  there is always one in every crowd... :)
[02:35] <Juzzy> its half full of air, half full of water
[02:35] <Juzzy> ;/
[02:35] <cyberanger> just my way of saying, that question is one with no right answer, just whatever answer is handy
[02:35] <Juzzy> it does, half empty and half full are BOTH Wrong
[02:35] <Juzzy> it's 100% full in either case
[02:35] <cyberanger> however few go outside the two options given (making it a good optimist vs pessimist guage)
[02:36] <cyberanger> wrst: tonight there seems to be two
[02:36] <Juzzy> :(
[02:37] <cyberanger> Juzzy: I think that's a good thin
[02:37] <cyberanger> thing*
[02:37] <Juzzy> it's ok
[02:37] <Juzzy> it's how my technical mind works ;/
[02:37]  * cyberanger doesn't just think outside the box, he blows it up
[02:37] <Juzzy> drives the wife bonkers sometimes
[02:37] <wrst> ha ha
[02:38]  * cyberanger has the RDX to prove it
[02:38] <Juzzy> it's hard to be a christian when your mind is detailed oriented :/
[02:39] <cyberanger> oh, yeah, it can be
[02:39] <cyberanger> and I take it she's the real devout type then?
[02:40] <Juzzy> well, heh yes
[02:40] <Juzzy> we are both christians
[02:40] <cyberanger> (not saying there is a sliding scale on how one is devout to their beliefs)
[02:40] <Juzzy> neither of us are bible thumpers
[02:41] <Juzzy> I actually enjoy debating aithiests though
[02:41]  * wrst has bible will thump
[02:41] <wrst> Juzzy: really, thats interesting
[02:41] <Juzzy> yea, I'm rather good at it
[02:41] <cyberanger> the hard part that the torah, the koran, the bible & the constitution left things up to interpurtation
[02:41] <Juzzy> the problem I have is all the holes in the bible
[02:41] <Juzzy> which makes it hard to defend sometimes
[02:42] <cyberanger> two vary dangerous things when left too vauge, politics & religion
[02:42] <Juzzy> regardless, the cores of religion revolve around 1 argument
[02:42] <Juzzy> intellegent design
[02:42] <cyberanger> Juzzy: reminds me of a scene of a BBC show, Mrs. Brow's boys
[02:42] <Juzzy> it's harder for an athiest to prove God doesnt than it is that we evolved from dust
[02:43] <Juzzy> erm vice versa
[02:43] <wrst> Juzzy: I have found that with atheism it is a religion in and of itself
[02:43] <cyberanger> she's devout cathloic, but when a bunch of mormons come to her house, she pulls all the stops
[02:43] <Juzzy> harder to prove we came from dust
[02:43] <Juzzy> heh
[02:43] <wrst> but I know many and atheist that I do like also
[02:43] <Juzzy> oh sure
[02:43] <Juzzy> the impressive thing about athiest, they know the bible better than most christians
[02:43] <wrst> cyberanger: grub is installing this sounds to be good
[02:43] <cyberanger> wrst: sounds real good
[02:44] <Juzzy> which puts them at considerable risk
[02:44] <wrst> Juzzy: agreed, then some stupid christian tries to defend their faith adn well its all over and they look stupid
[02:44] <cyberanger> Juzzy: yeah, I'd love to see more athiests try that on the torah & koran too
[02:44] <Juzzy> What I find absolutely  amazing
[02:44] <cyberanger> I mean, if your gonna say there is no god, you gotta punch holes in all god-beliving faith
[02:44] <Juzzy> is the youtube simulations of the universe and X Y Whatever star
[02:45] <Juzzy> which is like 1 million x larger than the sun
[02:45] <wrst> cyberanger: i have me some bootin' going on
[02:45] <Juzzy> cyberanger: the whole argument revolves around orgin of man
[02:45] <Juzzy> so regardless if some dude died on a cross 2k yrs ago
[02:46] <Juzzy> or some leader came up 400 yrs later
[02:46] <wrst> ok cyberanger here's why i probably won't use debian testing... still no gnome 3!
[02:46] <cyberanger> Juzzy: yeah, except for a buddist (sp?)
[02:46] <Juzzy> did we come from monkeys, etc or created
[02:46] <Juzzy> actually
[02:46] <Juzzy> buddism isnt really a religion
[02:46] <Juzzy> it's a meditation practice more than anyhting
[02:47] <Juzzy> well by definition maybe so
[02:47] <Juzzy> Religion is a collection of cultural systems, belief systems, and worldviews that establishes symbols that relate humanity to spirituality and moral values.
[02:47] <orangeninja> LMAO! for your information glass was empty... all out after 1.
[02:47] <cyberanger> yeah, that's the hard part, drawing the line
[02:48] <cyberanger> I'd say it is, you have faith in it & define your life to it
[02:48] <Juzzy> so based on that, atheism is actually a religion
[02:48] <cyberanger> but perhaps that's myself leaning back on something definivite vs subjective
[02:49] <cyberanger> yeah, based on that, atheism could be a religion
[02:49] <cyberanger> strong faith in no god existing, not sure how one define's their life to it
[02:50] <cyberanger> but I suppose by being unhindered from any customs any god commanded could fill that void
[02:50] <Juzzy> I had a awesome punchline to an athiest friend on fb once
[02:50] <cyberanger> wrst: good news
[02:50] <cyberanger> it's like stealing candy from an athiest
[02:50] <Juzzy> his wife (ath and lib) posted how inhumane and rediculous to circumsize boys
[02:50] <cyberanger> Atheist: there is no god
[02:50] <Juzzy> so after about 40 going back and forths
[02:51] <cyberanger> christian: there is no candy
[02:51] <Juzzy> I said...
[02:51] <wrst> cyberanger:  what is the good news?
[02:51] <Juzzy> so I'm going to guess you're pro-choice
[02:51] <cyberanger> athiest: my god your right
[02:51] <Juzzy> which is a nobrainer for a liberal
[02:51] <Juzzy> she replied (what's that have to do with anything)
[02:51] <cyberanger> Juzzy: lol
[02:51] <cyberanger> wrst: your progress
[02:52] <cyberanger> with debian testing
[02:52] <Juzzy> so I said: So somewhere in your F'd up head, it's ok to shove a rod through a baby's skull and suck out it's brain, but it's not ok to cut some skin off it's penis?
[02:52] <Juzzy> <end of chain>
[02:52] <wrst> yeah but no gnome 3 cyberanger, what in the world are they testing?
[02:52] <orangeninja> BOOOM! Juzzy
[02:53] <cyberanger> wrst: you selected the desktop, do you have any desktop showing up?
[02:53] <Juzzy> ya, ^5 mysqlf, none of the liberals would do so
[02:53] <Juzzy> lol myself
[02:53] <cyberanger> Juzzy: I see a limited use as reasonable
[02:53] <wrst> cyberanger: yep have gnome 2.x
[02:53] <Juzzy> I have a hard time typing myself, always comes out mysql
[02:53] <orangeninja> lol has your friends invited you back? Awsome comeback my friend,
[02:53] <cyberanger> extremely limited, if one life isn't lost, both will die
[02:53] <Juzzy> limited use != pro-choice
[02:54] <Juzzy> 100% different
[02:54] <wrst> Juzzy: i prefer to say pro killing babies
[02:54] <Juzzy> some preacher is getting sued in texas
[02:54] <Juzzy> b/c he bought a billboard
[02:54] <Juzzy> erm -preacher + guy
[02:55] <cyberanger> Juzzy: exactly, but I think many don't accept that there could be legitimate reasons
[02:55] <Juzzy> he has a pair of hands and a baby chalkline
[02:55] <Juzzy> saying: I would had a child if my wife didnt choise to murder it
[02:55] <cyberanger> the debate is so life or death, it's gotten tunnel vision on just that
[02:55] <wrst> ok cyberanger found a way to get gnome 3 adding expiremental repo, this sounds dangerous
[02:55] <Juzzy> I imagine they are not still married
[02:55] <cyberanger> wrst: is it not in the default repos?
[02:55] <orangeninja> wow
[02:55] <wrst> nope gnome 2 still default
[02:56] <cyberanger> wrst: so debian testing has left gnome 4 to sid for now, hrm
[02:56] <wrst> yeah seems a little silly to me
[02:56] <cyberanger> I use both, so that would explain my mistake
[02:56] <cyberanger> eh, debian (outside sid) is known for caution
[02:57] <wrst> yeah i suspect something is about to break :)
[02:57] <wrst> well the mirror I'm on is using cyberanger's dial up so i'm going to go to bed while this is downloading see everyone later
[03:01] <Juzzy> cya
[03:01] <orangeninja> cya Juzzy
[03:01] <orangeninja> ok 250 gb hd Ill make it easy and put 50Gb as windows. How should I partition the rest
[03:01] <Juzzy> wrst, not me
[03:01] <cyberanger> wrst: funny
[03:01] <Juzzy> but ok heh
[03:02] <cyberanger> real funny
[03:02] <orangeninja> I have 4 gb ram
[03:02] <Juzzy> orangeninja: what's on the rest?
[03:02]  * cyberanger isn't on dial up without a real outage or unexpected travel issues
[03:02] <cyberanger> night wrst
[03:02] <orangeninja> it is going to be linus
[03:02] <orangeninja> linux
[03:02] <Juzzy> what I do (so shoot me)
[03:02] <Juzzy> is put 20gb to linux
[03:03] <Juzzy> and the rest to windows
[03:03] <Juzzy> then map ntfs to linux for storing random crao
[03:03] <Juzzy> p
[03:03] <Juzzy> b/c you can't easily read ext in windows
[03:03] <Juzzy> but linux can ntfs np
[03:03] <Juzzy> but that's just me, anti-linux desktops
[03:04] <orangeninja> hmmm this is a HP dv6775 latop
[03:04] <orangeninja> windows vista pro or home pro I dont know....
[03:04] <orangeninja> would the ntfs be / in linux?
[03:04] <orangeninja> I mean home
[03:05] <Juzzy> no
[03:05] <Juzzy> well, it -could- b
[03:05] <Juzzy> e
[03:05] <Juzzy> I just do /mnt/ntfs or whatever
[03:06] <Juzzy> an ln-s downloads or whatever I wanna share
[03:06] <Juzzy> but that's just me, bro
[03:06] <cyberanger> Juzzy: I've found the ext tools in windows more reliable lately
[03:06] <Juzzy> you do whatever
[03:06] <cyberanger> just needing the ext4 features patched in
[03:06] <Juzzy> ya, just not native
[03:07] <orangeninja> yeah, i am just a guy who is learning. I like linux enough that I mostly boot laptop to linux unless I need widows. SO I wanted to make a primary linux laptop, but scared to drop windows all the way off of laptop... know what I mean. Just in case.
[03:10] <orangeninja> I mean everything seems to work on the laptop. I have not even got the weird touchpad crash in a while. So I could probably make it a total linux machine if I could?
[03:15] <cyberanger> Juzzy: idk if ntfs support could be called native, to linux at least
[03:16] <cyberanger> due to the reverse engineered nature, higer bug rate & not in all distros by default
[03:16] <cyberanger> ubuntu enables it, more have over the years, as bugs thin out
[03:23] <cyberanger> idk, I've never been a huge fan
[03:25] <orangeninja> of what? ntfs on linux?
[03:26] <cyberanger> ntfs in general
[03:27] <cyberanger> improvement over fat32, yes, but fat goes back to dos, you had too much to improve by then
[03:27] <cyberanger> by NTFS's release, that is, just anything new was an improvement
[04:35] <vychune> o/
[04:36] <Unit193> Howdy
[04:36] <vychune> howja lol
[15:58] <cyberanger> Hola
[15:59] <cyberanger> I think pandora is gonna say I hit their cap this month, hit 25% already
[15:59] <cyberanger> mostly cause of yesterday & more today I'm sure
[16:00] <cyberanger> and I've got two days ahead where it'll be running for 12 hours straight
[16:01]  * cyberanger regrets having flash installed, but pandora & hulu seem to be worth it
[16:18] <Unit193> cyberanger: pianobar = no caps
[16:23] <cyberanger> Unit193 you've last me
[16:24] <cyberanger> lost me*
[16:25] <Unit193> pianobar (source: pianobar): console based player for Pandora radio. In component universe, is optional. Version 2011.01.24-1ubuntu0.2 (natty), package size 50 kB, installed size 176 kB
[16:25] <cyberanger> the cap bit
[16:26] <Unit193> Pandora has caps still? (I'm really not sure) If you don't use their flash client, you don't get them
[16:26] <Unit193> Pithos too
[16:26] <cyberanger> they did that as Flash LSO's before, but they seem to have changed methods (cause I shred them & route them to /dev/null
[16:27] <cyberanger> after 40 hours pay a buck for the rest of the month, or 30 for a year
[16:27] <cyberanger> (the 30 for a year is pandora one, which actually might be worth it, cause it removes some (if not all) ads
[16:28] <cyberanger> higher quality audio too)
[16:30] <cyberanger> pianobar does work though, keeps some distance from flash too it seems
[16:30] <cyberanger> guess it still needs aac support though
[16:31]  * cyberanger will have to pick apart it some
[18:42] <cyberanger> Unit193: looks like pianobar uses http, not https
[18:42] <cyberanger> kind of a shame, maybe I can fix that
[18:43] <Unit193> I would have to assume the same for Pithos (But I like pianobar better anyway)
[18:45] <cyberanger> doesn't look like they configured it that way, stunnel might be able to do it though
[18:46] <cyberanger> damn, I've gotta break out windows, this pdf junk isn't even working right on a mac
[18:47] <cyberanger> wonder if it's my end or the server
[19:35] <wrst> cyberanger: wow
[19:35] <cyberanger> or, perhaps the higher than usual latency & lower bandwidth (well usual to a federally paid sysadmin)
[19:35] <wrst> windows and make
[19:35] <wrst> *mac
[19:36] <pace_t_zulu> hey guys
[19:36] <Unit193> Howdy?
[19:36] <cyberanger> wrst: yeah, due to some real messed up issue in Adobe Reader (or more likely, I hope, the server generating them, or their browser plugin, poor setup)
[19:36] <pace_t_zulu> i just made a slight modification to http://www.ubuntu-tennessee.org
[19:38] <cyberanger> pace_t_zulu: how slight? I don't notice anything standing out
[19:38] <wrst> hey Unit193
[19:38] <wrst> cyberanger: you using adobe reador on linux? or some other one?
[19:39] <pace_t_zulu> look closer...
[19:39] <wrst> pace_t_zulu: i like htat you have more than one entry on the first page,and... did you do something to the calendar?
[19:42] <pace_t_zulu> nothing to the calendar
[19:42] <pace_t_zulu> font ....
[19:42] <wrst> ahh ok that expalins why that looked different :)
[19:44] <cyberanger> wrst: normally I use evince, this isn't normal, so acroread
[19:44]  * cyberanger is backed into a corner on this
[19:45] <wrst> adobe reader last i used it wasn't too bad on linux
[19:45] <cyberanger> pace_t_zulu: font, ah, I usually shrug that off
[19:45] <cyberanger> wrst: as a browser plugin, with javascript call home functions
[19:45] <pace_t_zulu> i reckon having the ubuntu font on ubuntu-tennessee.org isn't a bad thing
[19:46] <cyberanger> & the pdf actually generated on the server, dynamically generated, not just a file
[19:46] <cyberanger> pace_t_zulu: depends on if a new guy with network issues can still render it in windows
[19:48] <cyberanger> wrst: so yeah, the added "features" above makes it all unpredictable
[19:48] <Unit193> cyberanger: Got a sec? What would you think about making Debian testing a base for a Fluxbox project? How much does it break, how much do you have to fix it, stability and such (Or if you're busy)
[19:50] <cyberanger> Unit193: crunchbang & others kinda answer that for you, in terms of proving it's worked for others
[19:50] <cyberanger> it's testing, so it's not bulletproof (what is?) but debian testing has worked for me, for crunchbang
[19:50] <cyberanger> for others
[19:51] <Unit193> I was asking what you think, but that's a good thought
[19:51]  * Unit193 relay :P
[19:52] <cyberanger> Unit193: I say go with it, it has worked for my stuff
[19:52] <cyberanger> but my stuff is wip still, hence why I threw that in ;-)
[19:53] <pace_t_zulu> cyberanger: it's using google webfont
[19:53] <pace_t_zulu> cyberanger:  you want a screenshot from IE?
[19:53] <Unit193> cyberanger: Alright, if he asks anymore, I may ask you (And I'll stop bugging you now :P )
[19:53] <cyberanger> Unit193: do something crazy, crazy might break, but I keep pushing that envelope, no breakage yet
[19:53] <cyberanger> and fluxbox isn't that far out there
[19:53] <cyberanger> why not
[19:54] <cyberanger> pace_t_zulu: no thanks, I trust you, that it works in Internet exPloiter
[19:54] <cyberanger> that was just my only thought, looks nice
[20:12] <cyberanger> wrst: got it working on linux, took alot of coaxing
[20:12] <cyberanger> seems to be on their end though
[20:12] <cyberanger> I'd guess they're just overloading their servers with that junk
[20:25] <cyberanger> done, for the moment at least
[20:39] <cyberanger> bbaib
[20:40] <Unit193> #! is running on Stable (well, now anyway)
[21:33] <pace_t_zulu> wrst: ping
[21:49] <wrst> pace_t_zulu: pong
[22:26] <pace_t_zulu> Svpernova09: ping
[22:27] <pace_t_zulu> hey wrst
[22:27] <pace_t_zulu> trying to get favicon.ico updated on ubuntu-tennessee.org


[09:39] <thorwil> djsiegel: hi, so this Applications Place will blur the line between installed and available-to-be-installed applications, too?
[09:47] <djsiegel> thorwil: yes
[09:48] <thorwil> djsiegel: excellent. that's what i would push for, too :)
[09:49] <hyperair> what if i don't want to see available-to-be-installed applications? can i hide them?
[09:50] <hyperair> e.g. i hate evolution's guts and i don't want to ever see it anywhere on my screen.
[09:50] <hyperair> djsiegel: ^^
[10:03] <djsiegel> hyperair: hmm?
[10:03] <djsiegel> hyperair: is you're browsing, you just see what's installed
[10:03] <djsiegel> if you start searching, you see what's installed and what's available
[10:03] <djsiegel> but the available stuff is in a separate group at the bottom
[10:03] <hyperair> ah i see.
[10:04] <hyperair> okay, that's cool then =)
[13:00] <htorque> hello, should i file new bugs as duplicates of those three master bugs in indicator-appmenu or should i leave it up to you to categorize them?
[15:28] <jcastro> vish: is it worth papercutting example-content? I thought kwwii and crew were redoing the whole thing
[15:33] <vish> jcastro: well , anyone can fix papercuts :)  just because kwwii et al fix it , it aint much lesser , but that bug was more about the naming than about gathering content..
[15:33] <jcastro> right
[15:33] <vish> we just need to ensure naming, for the "fix" ;)
[15:33] <jcastro> I was just saying, all those files are going away at some point
[15:34] <jcastro> but I haven't talked to him about it since UDS so I don't know his plan right now
[15:38] <vish> jcastro: cool , its david's baby , we can probably leave that bug as a reminder to ensure we dont fallback to our historical naming scheme ;p
[15:38]  * jcastro nods
[15:43] <seif> jcastro, how are the windicators coming along
[15:43] <seif> jcastro, we have our first hack ideas :)
[15:44] <jcastro> seif: hi seif!
[15:44] <jcastro> I don't know anything about windicators, I'm your man for appmenu though!
[16:21] <hyperair> tedg: appindicator# is screwed. again.
[16:22] <hyperair> what happened this time?
[16:25] <tedg> hyperair, I think there's a bug in libappindicator itself -- is that what you mean, or specific to C#?
[16:29] <tedg> hyperair, I think there's a bug in libappindicator itself -- is that what you mean, or specific to C#?
[16:29] <hyperair> tedg: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-application/+bug/592706 this one probably.
[20:19] <bcurtiswx> Future work with windicators may be one for empathy (didn't see it listed in the 5 or future work, and I'm not gonna go Wiki spam :P)
[20:27] <bcurtiswx> sorry got DC if anyone replied to my posting


[17:05] <meena> falcojr: you think this https://gist.github.com/5824e72b26ecbde9f50f9459edb489f3 is better than before?
[18:34] <falcojr> meena: is there a reason for the change? I usually prefer dealing with exit/error codes as text output will often change and be subject to internationalization...though...that doesn't really seem relevant here, so I think it's fine...but not sure why'd we prefer this over the previous version
[20:16] <meena> falcojr: i dunno, hence the question. is it better to compare an error string, or rip thru the stack with an exception, catch it and then continue like nothing happened
[20:17] <meena> it feels strange… not very performant, but maybe I just don't understand python well enough
[20:17] <meena> maybe throwing and immediately catching an exception is more akin to returning from a function for the optimiser