[00:59] <persia> conics.net also ships the NetWalker worldwide
[04:02] <ericnj> Hi guys, is it possible to get armel on Palm Tungsten T3?
[04:07]  * persia checks for specs
[04:08] <persia> ericnj: You might be able to shove 9.04 on it, but nothing newer.  I'd recommend trying to install Debian on that device.
[04:08] <ericnj> where can I get a ready made image,  rootfs?
[04:10] <ericnj> 9.04 is fine for me, just want minimal with light widows manager.
[04:11] <persia> There aren't any images for the Palm Tunsten T3.
[04:12] <ericnj> can I use the instruction on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/RootfsFromScratch?
[04:12] <persia> The babbage image from http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ports/releases/jaunty/release/ will have an extractable rootfs for all of desktop (but that might need too much RAM)
[04:13] <persia> Yes.  Those instructions should work fine (you got the URL faster than I)
[04:15] <ericnj> what is the smallest image size I can use on the rootstock?
[04:17] <ericnj> I want to install it on a SD card
[04:19] <persia> I don't know precisely about "smallest".  The buildd minimal chroots are about 60MB after bzip2, so maybe a couple hundred MB?
[04:19] <persia> Try installing the ubuntu-minimal task only, and see what that gets you.
[04:20] <ericnj> Do I have to do it with qemu?
[04:22] <persia> No, but that's easiest.
[04:22] <persia> So, there are two ways to construct a chroot that are fairly easy.
[04:23] <persia> 1) If you have a current Ubuntu armel install, you can use debootstrap.  This may or may not work for some Debian installs, depending on a number of factors.
[04:24] <ericnj> ok, I'm listening
[04:24] <persia> 2) If you have an Ubuntu install on i386 or amd64 (and potentially other architectures, but not well tested), you can use rootstock to run debootstrap in an emulated environment.
[04:24] <persia> There are, of course, N other ways, but neither is as easy as those.
[04:25] <ericnj> can you send me some instruction on my e-mail?
[04:25] <ericnj> I'm a noobie
[04:25] <persia> What sort of instruction, and for which path?
[04:26] <persia> and I'd much prefer to work with you interactively to sort it, rather than trying to write some customised documentation..
[04:26] <ericnj> I understand
[04:26] <tkmedia> yes and others may bennefit from it
[04:27] <persia> That too :)
[04:27] <tkmedia> ;)
[04:28] <ericnj> I've tried the instructions on the above page and that's what I've got at the end of my log file: Reading package lists... 99%  Reading package lists... Error!  E: Unable to write mmap - msync (28 No space left on device) E: The package lists or status file could not be parsed or opened. Kernel panic - not syncing: Attempted to kill init! I: Killed ...
[04:28] <persia> That usually means you need to pass a larger value to --imagesize
[04:29] <tkmedia> if if setup ubuhntu-armel I should be able to debbostrap lenny right ?
[04:29] <persia> tkmedia: That *should* work, but it's not well tested.  There is a small chance that there are some internetworking issues that could be exposed.
[04:30] <ericnj> thanks, I'll try that
[04:30] <tkmedia> k
[04:30] <persia> tkmedia: If you are up for testing and reporting any bugs, that would be great.  I'd much prefer if we could support that use case.
[04:31] <tkmedia> can i setup ubuntu-armel in kvm by chance ?
[04:32] <Martyn> ??
[04:32] <Martyn> I thought there was zero KVM support in armel.
[04:32] <Martyn> There's no hardware support for hypervisor functions...
[04:33] <Martyn> (TrustZone doesn't provide the right kinds of abstraction)
[04:33] <persia> tkmedia: You can't in kvm.  You can in qemu-kvm.  I personally use `mk-sbuild --arch=armel lucid` to create build chroots (works in lucid)
[04:34] <persia> tkmedia: Also, read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/RootfsFromScratch for richer instructions on getting something running in real qemu, rather than just a chroot.
[04:34] <tkmedia> yep tried that
[04:34] <tkmedia> unfortunately i have arm 4
[04:35] <persia> Then you can't run Ubuntu anyway.
[04:35] <tkmedia> hence then lenny deboostrap question
[04:36] <persia> aha!
[04:36] <persia> You might do better to try to port rootstock to work also with Debian, and then just build your Debian rootfs directly.
[04:36] <tkmedia> am i way off
[04:37] <persia> No, but I think you're doing it the hard way :)
[04:37] <tkmedia> k
[04:37] <tkmedia> what else is new
[04:37] <tkmedia> if there is a hard way ... i seem to find it
[04:38] <tkmedia> i guess i should jkust suck it up and build a qemu
[04:38] <persia> tkmedia: What are you trying to accomplish as an end goal?
[04:39] <tkmedia> but i have proxmox and it makes kvm soooo easy
[04:39] <tkmedia> good question
[04:39] <tkmedia> dev environtment under lenny iguess
[04:39] <tkmedia> ARM 4
[04:39] <persia> kvm doesn't deal well with cross-architecture things.  Works *great* for i386/amd64/powerpc as long as the guest architecture matches the host architecture, but that's not usually the case here.
[04:39] <persia> tkmedia: What hardware?
[04:40] <tkmedia> samsung 9
[04:40] <tkmedia> mini2440
[04:41] <tkmedia> 7-10 touch screen
[04:41] <tkmedia> maybe a cortex board is better
[04:41] <tkmedia> ?
[04:42] <tkmedia> wall mount
[04:43] <persia> If you're just looking for an electronic picture frame, a newer board is a waste of power.
[04:43] <tkmedia> http://www.friendlyarm.net/products/mini2440
[04:44] <persia> http://code.google.com/p/mini2440/wiki/EmdebianChroot might be a reasonable place to start.
[04:45] <tkmedia> yep i keep ending up back there
[04:45] <tkmedia> so iguess i should stop fighting that
[04:46] <persia> It oughtn't be that hard to generalise the emdebian instructions to work with Debian proper.
[04:46] <persia> Also, rootstock would benefit from growing the ability to also create Debian rootfs artifacts.
[04:47] <persia> But if you just want it to work today, the emdebian instructions are probably fastest.
[04:47] <tkmedia> I have been tainted by the M$ world
[04:48] <tkmedia> so my mind needs reprogramming
[04:48] <tkmedia> and VB by day doesnt help
[04:49] <persia> Martyn: Just for completeness sake: 9.04 supported ARMv5, 9.10 supported ARMv6, and 10.04+ is ARMv7.
[04:49] <tkmedia> is rootstock script based ?
[04:50] <persia> Also, there were no formal Ubuntu releases of armel prior to 9.04 (although the mojo project had good stuff for several releases from cross-compilation)
[04:50] <Martyn> persia : Thanks for the clarification
[04:50] <persia> tkmedia: https://code.launchpad.net/project-rootstock is the best place to check.
[04:50] <tkmedia> k
[04:50] <tkmedia> thanks
[04:50] <persia> Martyn: Thanks for steering now3d in the right direction :)
[04:51] <Martyn> persia : I had a complete 8.04 system built for/from ARM itself, but that was before the release of the Cortex-A8... more a proof of concept than anything supported
[04:51] <persia> Not the mojo stuff?
[04:52] <persia> ( mojo.handhelds.org )
[04:52] <Martyn> nope, not the mojo stuff
[04:52] <Martyn> in fact, a lot of it was compiled with the CodeSourcery toolchain, inside of ARM.   It predates all the nice root filesystem tools too...
[04:53] <Martyn> Which, for the record, rock my world.
[04:53] <Martyn> rootstock = FTW
[04:54] <persia> rootstock is very nice indeed.
[04:54] <persia> But yeah, that sounds like a special thing.  Not something I'd heard about before.
[04:58] <Martyn> It was, but it was also fun
[04:58] <Martyn> And these days I'm still working on getting Lenny working as an arm server
[04:58] <Martyn> so much that we discussed at UDS has been abandoned
[04:58] <Martyn> No Device Tree
[04:58] <Martyn> no software boot
[04:59] <Martyn> and there's no point in even trying to get an official arm server build...
[04:59] <persia> Hrm?
[04:59] <persia> What's http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-server/ports/daily/current/
[04:59] <persia> Looks like two armel server builds to me.
[05:00] <persia> DeviceTree just didn't get finished in time, from what I heard.
[05:00] <persia> And mukluk needs love, but there's been persistent bugs about kexec() issues, which I believe are finally just getting sorted (but too late for lucid).
[05:00] <Martyn> Yep.  Grant is working really hard
[05:00] <Martyn> but the patches are only just now starting to flow
[05:00] <persia> Yeah, all credit to him.  It's just a matter of timing against the 6-month cycle.
[05:01] <persia> Based on what I hear, I have a feeling that we might be able to get that for the next cycle.
[05:01] <Martyn> yep
[05:01] <Martyn> and that's kind of critical for smooth-stone chips
[05:01] <Martyn> device tree will make booting our SoC much, much easier
[05:02] <tkmedia> hmm ps3 install
[05:02] <persia> Make booting *everything* easier.
[05:02] <persia> tkmedia: -> #ubuntu-powerpc :)
[05:02] <tkmedia> anyone try that?
[05:03] <tkmedia> is it virtual
[05:03] <tkmedia> it runs intheir hypervisor right ?
[05:04] <persia> Martyn: Have you been testing the DT stuff in your kernels?  Do you know what we need to tweak in image builds to make it just work?
[05:04] <tkmedia> or can you take full advantage of the hardware?
[05:05]  * tkmedia is off to read up
[05:05] <Martyn> no, I'm not touching the DT stuff at _all_
[05:05] <Martyn> Right now, I'm porting linux to specifications, since we don't have a test chip built .. and RTL runs 8 million times slower than the actual processor
[05:06] <persia> 8 million!  So you get, what, about 1.5KHz?
[05:07]  * persia can't do math, and gives up.
[05:09] <Martyn> no, 200Hz
[05:09] <Martyn> 300 if the simulation is run on a very, very fast nehalem (3.2Ghz or better)
[05:09] <persia> Ouch!
[05:09] <Martyn> multicore isn't yet supported by anyone for RTL sim
[05:10] <Martyn> so you basically are running unicore
[05:10] <Martyn> (that's being addressed, but a lot of this kind of thing CAN'T be run parallel)
[05:10] <persia> Right.
[05:10] <persia> So if DT gets far enough to land in lucid+1, that actually works for you.
[05:10] <Martyn> yep
[05:11] <Martyn> One of my workmates (JAson Hobbes - n3onfr3on) is working on that part
[05:11] <persia> Also, have you tested the server images at all?  I don't know that they are getting enough testing, but I suspect they ought get some.
[05:11] <Martyn> since he's writing the bootloader
[05:11] <persia> (and it was your spec that made them happen)
[05:11] <Martyn> I can't test them .. while they are built for v7a, my kernels don't properly support thumb2 yet
[05:12] <persia> I thought you had a Lange
[05:12] <Martyn> because I'm running in FastModel
[05:12] <Martyn> Yeah, I have a lange board .. but I don't have the debug cable
[05:12] <Martyn> I need to get that from ojn before I can reconfigure u-boot
[05:12] <Martyn> lange 5.1 even
[05:12] <persia> Oh right, I remember now.  Sorry for the reminder of the pain.
[05:12] <Martyn> in fact, I'd like to try the -desktop- build on the lange 5.1
[05:13] <persia> That's been dropped.  THe only images being built are Ubuntu Netbook, Kubuntu Netbook, and Ubuntu Server.
[05:13] <persia> Not to say you can't create one, but images just aren't being built.
[05:14] <Martyn> yep
[05:14] <Martyn> I can use the server image, and apply most of what's needed to get desktop
[05:15] <persia> Just preseed a late-command to install the ubuntu-desktop task, and you can do it in one shot.
[05:16] <Martyn> yep
[05:16] <persia> Although netinstall images might be better for that use case, because most of the server pool is uninteresting for desktop.
[05:16] <Martyn> but, for now the lange sits on my desk unused
[05:16] <Martyn> the versatile2 gets a lot more attention
[05:16] <persia> Waiting on ojn :)
[05:16] <Martyn> even if it is just a 400Mhz Cortex-A9
[05:16] <persia> That's not bad at all.
[05:37] <DanaG> interesting... device-tree coming to ARM?
[05:39] <persia> DanaG: Indeed.  The idea is to move from kernel-per-board to kernel-per-SoC by using DeviceTree to handle board-level variations.
[05:40] <DanaG> hmm, how would it handle different memory locations?
[05:40] <persia> And this is critical from a distribution POV, as it means we can actually support N devices.
[05:40] <persia> How do you mean?
[05:40] <DanaG> ah, that's the per-SOC part.
[05:40] <DanaG> Same SOC will have same memory layout for at least main RAM.
[05:40] <persia> Oh, yeah.  Moving from per-SoC to per-architecture will require an entirely different level of cooperation
[05:41] <DanaG> First time I'd used Device-Tree was with Microblaze.... that was an exercise in broken tools.
[05:43] <persia> If you've experience working with it, and want to help make it happen (to avoid the broken tool situation), please track followups to http://www.kernel.org/doc/ols/2008/ols2008v2-pages-27-38.pdf
[05:44] <persia> git://git.secretlab.ca/git/linux-2.6 test-devicetree seems another good source
[06:06] <DanaG> what I mean by broken tools, is things like a cross-compiler, that, when trying to build, segfaults the host compiler. =þ
[06:08] <persia> Ugh.  Yet another argument against cross-compilers.
[06:10] <DanaG> Yeah, I thought that was comically bad -- I mean, I don't even see how you could make a compiler segfault.  Really bad code? =þ
[06:13] <persia> ICE isn't hard to achieve if one takes the effort.
[06:13] <persia> THis is unfortunate, but the nature of developing tools.
[06:59] <tkmedia> what do you guys think of the smart Q7
[07:02] <persia> tkmedia: It's too big :)  Also, it can't run lucid (ARMv6)
[07:02] <GrueMaster> persia: I thought lucid was armv7?
[07:03] <GrueMaster> (or are you referring to the smart?
[07:03] <persia> GrueMaster: SmartQ7
[07:03] <GrueMaster> ah
[07:04] <persia> They ship with something based on jaunty, but I *think* they could be upgraded to karmic if someone uses a custom kernel.
[07:04] <persia> I'm fairly certain they can't run lucid.
[07:04] <persia> (although SmartDevices may well come out with another generation, and the price is certainly right)
[07:14] <ethana2> hello, from my Droid
[13:38] <asac> JamieBennett: gave you a RC  bug so we can upload in freeze: bug 537356
[13:38] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 537356 in webservice-office-zoho (Ubuntu Lucid) (and 1 other project) "application menu entries dont do anything (affects: 1)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/537356
[13:42] <asac> xserver with imx fallback patch is about to finish building ;)
[13:43] <JamieBennett> asac: thanks :)
[13:43] <ogra> wohooo
[13:44] <ogra> asac, now it just needs proper EDID detection :)
[13:44] <asac> ogra: the current solution is quite good enough i think ;)
[13:44] <persia> Well, depends on one's monitor
[13:44] <ogra> i want my 1900x1002 !
[13:44] <asac> oh edid
[13:44] <asac> yeah
[13:44] <ogra> *1200
[13:44] <asac> ogra: how is that done?
[13:45] <ogra> no idea i have to look into it, it wasnt ready in the old driver i have around here
[13:45] <asac> well its not ready here either
[13:45] <asac> but maybe its just a code fix ;)
[13:45] <ogra> but i think its already done when the fb device inits
[13:45] <asac> hmm on init feels wrong
[13:45] <asac> monitor might get plugged in/out swapped etc.
[13:45] <asac> xrandr should tell us better info ;)
[13:46] <ogra> xrandr is after EDID
[13:46] <ogra> iirc
[13:46] <asac> ok i will check that
[13:47] <asac> sure xrandr hopefully just reflects what EDID gave us
[13:47] <asac> or gives us (when mohnitor changes)
[13:47] <persia> I was under the impression xrandr wasn't available based on the snipped of the log that was pasted yesterday.
[13:48] <ogra> fbcvt: 1024x768@60: CVT Name - .786M3
[13:48] <ogra> thats what i have in dmesg
[13:48] <ogra> xrandr is available but only with a handfull of default resolutions
[13:48] <ogra> up to  1024x768
[13:48] <asac> ack
[13:49] <asac> at least it detects for me its a lcd with proper subpixel
[13:49] <ogra> and we dont know if resolution changing works yet
[13:49] <asac> cant you try lower resolution in fbdev?
[13:51] <ogra> you can try setting modelines with fbset
[13:52] <ogra> and you can indeed add modelines in xorg.conf
[13:52] <ogra> if xranbdr works you should even be able to use modelines there to add new modes
[13:56] <NCommander> dmart: ping?
[13:57] <dmart> NCommander: hi there
[13:57] <NCommander> dmart: sorry I missed you yesterday
[13:57] <dmart> no probs; just wondering what our next steps should be on OOo
[13:57] <NCommander> dmart: funny, I was going to ask you the same thing :-)
[13:58] <NCommander> dmart: I retested karmic gcc-4.3 + jaunty binutils, and got a working uno from fresh sources
[13:59] <ogra> NCommander, did you talk to doko btw, i think he did all these varaition tests already
[13:59] <ogra> he should have a test matrix for what combo works and which one doesnt
[13:59] <NCommander> ogra: I talked to him earlier, but he didn't say anything about that. I'll make sure to ask him for that
[14:00] <ogra> i tested a *ton* of different builds he did
[14:00] <ogra> each with a different combo of gcc and binutils
[14:00] <NCommander> ogra: I'll ping him
[14:01] <NCommander> ogra: that's good to know. I just wish it was on the bug :-/
[14:01] <NCommander> dmart: TBH, I'm kinda out of ideas on this one.
[14:01] <NCommander> dmart: we know what appears to be the base underlying cause for the OOo boom
[14:01] <NCommander> but I don't really know how to fix it, or how to even rewrite the ASM snippet to be less evil
[14:03] <ogra> NCommander, just build it with --no-uno-crash
[14:03] <ogra> ;)
[14:03]  * NCommander whacks ogra
[14:03]  * NCommander feels better
[14:03]  * ogra feels short now
[14:04] <persia> So, about OO.o.
[14:05] <persia> From what I saw recently, I thought we knew what changes to the toolchain were providing what extra bits that caused which problems.
[14:05] <persia> Was the .eh... issue resolved or still open upstream?
[14:05] <persia> Or did someone confirm this wasn't really the issue?
[14:11] <NCommander> dmart: I'm not even sure what to bring to OOo upstream about this, from there perspective, it looks like a pure toolchain bug
[14:21] <dmart> NCommander: the problem file had some maintainers' names -- have you tried to contact them?  I think the first thing is to understand from them what the code is trying to do, and explain our concerns about why it looks incorrect.
[14:22] <NCommander> dmart: no, I haven't
[14:24] <dmart> I can draft a mail if you like.
[14:28] <dmart> oooh
[14:28] <dmart> hang on a moment
[14:30] <dmart> NCommander: did you look at this?: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/393294/
[14:31] <NCommander> dmart: I smell magic in that file
[14:31] <NCommander> deep scary magic
[14:31] <dmart> Ummm, yeah
[14:31] <dmart> The two first *p++ poke ARM instructions into memory
[14:31] <dmart> > mov r12, pc
[14:32] <dmart> > ldr pc, [pc, #4]
[14:32] <dmart> This explains why privateSnippetExecutor assumes there is something in ip (r12)
[14:32] <NCommander> dmart: I think my crack fuse just burt out :-/
[14:33] <dmart> I guess it's used to look up the functionIndex and vtableOffset values which get poked
[14:34] <NCommander> dmart: there is no guarette thats going to laid out like that in memory though, or with no padding and stuff done
[14:36] <NCommander> dmart: actually, it could have been the move to ARMv6 that might have brokened it in the first place since that removed the strict algnment access requirements
[14:36] <NCommander> (not sure, but a possible theory)
[14:40] <dmart> Hey ramana
[14:40] <dmart> I know what's in ip (ish)
[14:41] <dmart> It contains the pc value in a trampoline used to read the destination vtable offset and function index, see http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/393294/
[14:41] <dmart> ...or at least it would contain that if any version of the linker ever provided a guarantee
[14:41] <NCommander> dmart: on a scale of 1-10, how high is the crack factor of what OOo is doing here?
[14:42] <NCommander> dmart: but privateSnippetExecutor works
[14:42] <NCommander> dmart: thats been previously tested, and works as expected
[14:42] <persia> Shouldn't it not work as expecting, as with all the mov *,pc stuff?
[14:43] <dmart> The linker is allowed insert trampolines for function calls, which are permitted to corrupt ip.  The chance of this happening is pretty low, but it's not "safe"
[14:43] <dmart> I think the code in question will get executed as ARM, and the way it branches it interworking-compatible.
[14:44] <dmart> ...anyway, I don't think this code is failing, it's just a bit scary
[14:44] <NCommander> dmart: bit?
[14:44] <NCommander> dmart: ugh, I just realized something nasty
[14:45] <NCommander> dmart: part of the ASM instructions exist outside the .S (as the hex magic)
[14:45] <NCommander> dmart: so even if we add unwind table entries, ther're not going to properly "mesh"
[14:46] <dmart> Because the trampoline generated by privateSnippetExecutor only trashes ip, it might not need any unwind info... but I'm not the expert on this
[14:47] <dmart> Also, I think no exception can occur in the trampoline itself, because it calls no functions except for jumping to privateSnippetExecutor
[14:48] <NCommander> dmart: thats not the problem, the problem is libgcc bails out because on CANTUNWIND segments (in theory)
[14:48]  * dmart is grepping the OOo source to try and work out where this code gets called from, but it will take a while
[14:48] <johannes_> cortex a9 processor seems to be the fastest and most fitting processor for a small client with gui, does someone know where I can buy a mainboard with this cpu?
[14:48] <ynezz> nvidia tegra2
[14:49] <dmart> johannes_: I've seen Ubuntu at least Ubuntu karmic working on tegra2
[14:49] <NCommander> dmart: uno2cpp.cxx only
[14:49] <NCommander> dmart: same folder
[14:49] <dmart> NCommander: I mean, where the functions codeSnippet and flushCode in uno2cpp.cxx are called from...
[14:49] <ynezz> johannes_: http://tegradeveloper.nvidia.com/tegra/
[14:49] <NCommander> dmart: if you read the UNO CPP code, your mind will release itself from mundane concerns as the horror of it takes over
[14:50] <johannes_> thanks Ill have a look at tegra2
[14:50] <NCommander> dmart: ah. theres a porting uno guide you might want to look at
[14:50] <dmart> Oh, where?  That sounds useful
[14:50] <NCommander> dmart: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Lazy_Hackers_Guide_To_Porting - skip to the first part of Hard Bit
[14:51] <NCommander> dmart: it deals with how the HPPA port was done.
[15:02] <johannes_> mhm bei tegra2 finde ich nur dinge, wie tablet pcs, ich suche aber nach etwas, wie dem beagleboard nur mit einem oder mehreren Cortex A9
[15:03] <ogra> johannes_, i dont think they are freely sold yet
[15:03] <persia> One needs to apply.
[15:03] <johannes_> oh sry for writing in german
[15:03] <ogra> macht nix :)
[15:04] <persia> johannes_: Are you looking to build something, or do you want a shipping device?
[15:04] <johannes_> I thought about a fileserver with a quadcore Cortex A9 as I read some articles it would have a lot of power
[15:05] <johannes_> I want to build something for myself
[15:08] <ynezz> tegra is dual core "only"
[15:09] <ogra> yeah, lame, isnt it ? :P
[15:09] <johannes_> but there are processor on it, I dont need, 3d graphics for example
[15:09] <johannes_> and I couldnt find a mainboard yet
[15:09] <ynezz> it's too hot
[15:10] <ynezz> you can't even buy it in Europe
[15:10] <persia> I've not seen any bare mainboards except for "development boards".
[15:10] <persia> Most stuff seems to be inside devices.
[15:10] <johannes_> thats sad
[15:11] <ogra> http://www.dlink.com/boxeebox
[15:11] <ogra> that will use a tegra2
[15:11] <ogra> i read somewhere
[15:11] <ynezz> but who knows when they start shipping it out :)
[15:12] <persia> Real Soon Now
[15:12] <ynezz> hm, good
[15:12] <persia> heh
[15:13] <persia> That's why I like the devices I *know* are shipping.
[15:13] <persia> We can get them today.
[15:13] <ogra> well, just hit the fast forward button ...
[15:14] <persia> One of those several-month retreats?
[15:14] <ogra> heh, yeah
[15:15] <johannes_> a question in general: would a quadcore Cortex A9 actually be powerful enough to support: mdadm raid 5, trunked Gigabit Ethernet, 2 HDTV tuner cards (for a vdr backend without decoding)?
[15:16] <ogra> if you find HDTV cards that fit into any ARM device ...
[15:17] <ogra> are there HD USB tuner cards ?
[15:17] <johannes_> size doesnt matter, it is only about power consumption
[15:17] <johannes_> some but most are pcie or pci
[15:17] <ogra> right, PCI is rare on ARM boards
[15:17] <ogra> sockets at least
[15:18] <persia> There are USB HD DTV devices.
[15:18] <johannes_> mhm I guess I was a bit naive, thinking I could simply change my opteron board with a armsystem
[15:19] <persia> Well, there exist a few boards with PCIe, but nothing running those chips I've seen
[15:19]  * persia has PCIe on an orion board
[15:19] <ogra> there will surely be some server boards with a9 chips *soon*
[15:19] <johannes_> what do you mean by soon?
[15:19] <ogra> those would have PCIe i assume
[15:20] <ogra> johannes_, within the next 254 months ?
[15:20] <persia> Maybe.  Maybe PCIx
[15:20] <ogra> err
[15:20] <ogra> 24 :)
[15:20] <persia> No, 254 is definitely correct.  24 is a bet.
[15:20] <johannes_> mhm better than 254, but still a long time
[15:20] <ogra> no idea ... i dont know how many companies wortk on server boards
[15:21] <ogra> but a9 are definately somehting thats intresting for datacenters
[15:21] <johannes_> When ubuntu is installed on an arm system, can I use all the programs, that are available for x86 ubuntu too?
[15:21] <persia> johannes_: I suspect that what you want is a next-generation NAS box (for the raid), with the HDTV USB bits plugged in the back.
[15:21] <persia> This wouldn't be building it yourself, but is probably the earliest purchase option.
[15:22] <persia> johannes_: There's a couple hundred packages that don't work right now, but we try to get that as close to zero as we can.
[15:22] <ogra> johannes_, yes, the majority works on arm as on x86
[15:22] <johannes_> I would prefer if it was still more pc than NAS, as I like to try things out with linux
[15:22] <johannes_> that sounds great
[15:23] <johannes_> what about drivers? (for tuner cards) can they simply be installed or do I need special ones?
[15:23] <persia> johannes_: The difference between a "Small form factor PC" and a "NAS box" is a USB keyboard and a USB Display module :)
[15:24] <ogra> johannes_, as long as there are linux drivers they should just work
[15:24] <persia> For USB tuner cards, the same drivers should work for any architecture.  For other tuners, you may need to do some tweaking.
[15:24] <suihkulokki> johannes_: openrd board comes with one PCIe slot
[15:24] <johannes_> I look it up
[15:24] <ogra> suihkulokki, but can the CPU do HD processing ?
[15:25] <ogra> though its a backend ... probably thats not actually needed if the card is powerful
[15:25] <suihkulokki> ogra: didn't he say we won't do decoding ?
[15:25] <persia> suihkulokki: That's the ARMv5 chip that's in the SheevaPlug, right?
[15:25] <suihkulokki> persia: which is good enough for the usecase.
[15:25] <persia> Absolutely.  Just wanted to confirm my reading.
[15:25] <ogra> suihkulokki, well, recording and streaming i guess
[15:26] <johannes_> basically streaming only
[15:27] <suihkulokki> oviously thing like recompressing streams or analyzing + cutting out ad breaks is out of question with any arm cpu
[15:27] <NCommander> dmart: *sigh*, how best do we draft this email?
[15:30] <dmart> I will look a bit more and then send you something...  But I think the code in armhelper.s is a fairly straightforward trampoline in which case the solution might not be too complicated.  Too early to say though...
[15:32] <tkmedia> how about using a network tuner like hd homerun
[15:34] <ogra> i think thats only DVB-T
[15:34] <ogra> there are no german HD channels over DVB-T
[15:34] <tkmedia> k
[15:34] <ogra> (assuming johannes_ is german after he spoke german here :) )
[15:35] <persia> wikipedia claims there are 4 modles of which only one is DVB-T
[15:35] <tkmedia> I use the US version
[15:35] <ogra> persia, the german version is DVB-T only afaik
[15:36] <persia> Ah.
[15:38] <johannes_> yes, I am german and thing is: I already got myself a skystar hd2 for the server I am using right now
[15:44] <dmart> NCommander, ramana: The code which looks interesting is in:
[15:44] <dmart> bridges/source/cpp_uno/shared/vtablefactory.cxx
[15:44] <dmart> bridges/source/cpp_uno/gcc3_linux_arm/cpp2uno.cxx
[15:45] <dmart> bridges/source/cpp_uno/gcc3_linux_arm/armhelper.s
[15:45] <dmart> (if you want to look and didn't already look at one of those)
[16:23] <dmart> NCommander: hi again
[16:24] <lool> dmart: Yes, that's the uno2cpp bridge, and it's what upstream told me was likely broken
[16:25] <NCommander> dmart: hola again
[16:25] <dmart> Hi there... I was just chatting for ramana and matt
[16:26] <dmart> We now understand better what privateSnippetExecutor is doing
[16:26] <dmart> and we think we have a fix: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/393376/
[16:26] <dmart> (i.e., delete 2/3 of the function :P )
[16:26] <NCommander> dmart: O_o;
[16:26] <lool> dmart: Amazing!
[16:27] <NCommander> that will be one hell of a fix if it works
[16:27] <dmart> This may just expose the next bug :/
[16:27] <dmart> Could you give it a try?
[16:27] <ogra> haha
[16:27] <dmart> My OOo build will take some more days to finish...
[16:27] <ogra> funny fix :)
[16:27]  * dmart admits that we did change a couple of lines as well as deleting some
[16:28] <persia> !ohmy
[16:28] <ubot4> Please remember that all Ubuntu IRC channels share the same attitude of providing friendly and polite interaction with all users of all ages and cultures. Basically, this means no foul language and no abuse towards others.
[16:28] <NCommander> dmart: incremently building, please stand by
[16:29] <NCommander> persia: where was the language violation?
[16:29] <dmart> Basically, the unwinder doesn't need to see this function at all if we tail-call optimise it (i.e., just jump to cpp_vtable_call and let it worry about the return)
[16:29] <ogra> persia, if i would mention it in a religious context would you also "ohmy" me ?
[16:29] <persia> ogra: No.
[16:30] <ogra> so why do you do it in this context ?
[16:30] <persia> (but if I don't ohmy people in #ubuntu-* I may get chastised by those who oversee me keeping the channels open)
[16:30] <NCommander> dmart: we MAY have a winner
[16:30] <NCommander> stand by
[16:30] <persia> ogra: IRC guidelines for #ubuntu-*.  I don't personally really care, but I like having IRC channels :)
[16:31] <dmart> Ummm, actually, who was the ohmy for?  If no-one can tell it will just cause confusion...
[16:31] <ogra> thats a pretty silly rule
[16:31] <ogra> dmart, <NCommander> that will be one hell of a fix if it works
[16:31] <ogra> (risking another ohmy)
[16:32]  * dmart kpees smoe fngries cssoerd but it mkeas it hrad to tpye
[16:32] <ogra> heh
[16:33]  * persia should get better at passing | to the bot
[16:33] <dmart> NCommander: it would also be interesting if you can shove this patch into your current working distro+libs+OOo combination and see whether it breaks anything
[16:34] <dmart> If not, pushing the patch is a no-brainer because is provides some cleanup, and also will avoid the risk the current code has of an incoming signal corrupting the stack
[16:34] <NCommander> dmart: buildingnow
[16:34] <NCommander> (with g++ 4.4/binutils 2.20)
[16:35] <dmart> =lucid?
[16:35] <NCommander> dmart: kmaric
[16:35] <dmart> Oh, right
[16:35] <NCommander> ladies and gentleman
[16:35] <NCommander> IT WORKS!
[16:35] <lool> \o/
[16:35] <NCommander> (also tested on lucid)
[16:35] <ogra> well, try lucid
[16:35] <ogra> hooray !!!!
[16:35]  * lool thinks the ARM folks deserve some Champagne
[16:35] <dmart> Ooo works, or just builds?
[16:35] <NCommander> dmart: works
[16:36] <dmart> Wow, cool :D
[16:36] <ogra> lool, free beer for dmart and his team for the whole UDS i'D say !
[16:36] <NCommander> ogra: +1
[16:36] <dmart> What, I have to wait till then :(
[16:36] <NCommander> dmart: we don't have beer transport over IRC
[16:36]  * ogra send some virtual beer right now
[16:36] <NCommander> dmart: how'd you figure out to reduce armhelper.s to what it is now?
[16:36] <lool> Someone uploads to lucid?
[16:36]  * NCommander quite envious to cracked this so quickly
[16:36] <ogra> *german* beer
[16:36] <dmart> Save some for ramana and matt, this was definitely a collaborative effort
[16:37] <NCommander> free beer for anyone who touched this bug
[16:37] <ogra> dmart, so i hope we'll see them in brussels
[16:37] <NCommander> lool: someone has to dump it into ooo-build upstream. OOo in lucid has no patch system of its own
[16:37]  * NCommander goes to grab ccheney
[16:37] <ogra> NCommander, heh, then i'd get the most beer, i filed it :P
[16:37] <ogra> touching really doesnt count :)
[16:38] <NCommander> ogra: we can just make david file it as expense. Brain damage remover!
[16:38] <dmart> NCommander: looking at the call too privateSnippetExtractor, we observed that it does nothing after the call to cpp_vtable_call, except to tidy up a stack frame which is only needed at all because it was set up
[16:38] <dmart> ...so we just branch to cpp_vtable_call.  cpp_vtable_call's return later goes straight back to the original caller.
[16:39] <NCommander> dmart: thats clever
[16:39] <lool> It's basically a jump trampoline I guess
[16:39] <dmart> Because there's no return address on the stack pointing into privateSnippetExecutor, the unwinder doesn't need to know about it at all
[16:40] <NCommander> dmart: so the unwinder was the root cause of the problem, and you just made privateSnippetExecutor disappear?
[16:40] <dmart> When an exxception occurs, the unwinder saw that there was a pending return into privateSnippetExecutor, but didn't know how to unwind that function
[16:41] <dmart> But since no state needs restoring anyway, we can have the unwinder skip it completely simply by not returning to it.
[16:42] <NCommander> dmart: wow. thats clever
[16:42]  * NCommander feels humbled
[16:42] <NCommander> ^in the precense of greatness
[16:47] <asac> dmart: you guys fixed it?
[16:48] <persia> asac: That's the theory : we have to do the upload / builder / install dance to 100% verify.
[16:49] <asac> yep
[16:49] <asac> NCommander: patch attached to bug? ooo target opened?
[16:50] <NCommander> asac: I just poked ccheney to add it to ooo-build
[16:50] <asac> yeah saw in -deesktop
[16:50] <asac> dmart: plenty of kudos to whoever was involved in this!!
[16:52] <dmart> Since we don't really understand OOo, I don't understand much about exceptions and we couldn't debug or test this locally, I'll certainly be happy if it works ;)
[16:52] <dmart> I passed on the good news to ramana and matt here
[16:55] <NCommander> dmart: lets call it a successful joint effort between Canonical-ARM in futhering the position of ARM on the desktop. Regardless, this wouldn't have been possible without you, ramana and matt :-)
[16:57] <dmart> Well, the OOo community might have fixed it, but it's harder to persuade upstreams to undertake that when we're not sure whether the real problem is a tools issue or something else.
[16:58] <lool> dmart: the arm port isn't actually upstream, it's a fedora patch
[16:58]  * dmart anticipates a shiny new .deb to confirm all this
[16:58] <NCommander> lool: its partially upstream, but not considered a priority by OOO as far as I can tell
[16:58] <NCommander> half of it is in their CVS, the other half is in ooo-build
[16:59] <dmart> Anyway, hopefully they'll accept the patch without problems; it cleans up some code if nothing else.
[16:59] <dmart> ...and we still think the old code wasn't signal-safe
[17:01] <dmart> ramana: take a bow :)
[17:02] <ogra> *clap* *clap* *clap* *clap* *clap* *clap*
[17:02] <ogra> :)
[17:05] <ramana> Thanks but the credit is actually due to Matt and the others in the team who spotted the differences with respect to the frame.
[17:05] <dmart> Well, it was a shared effort...
[17:06] <dmart> NCommander: thanks to you too
[17:06] <lool> dmart: Oh I'm sure the maintainer of that piece of code will welcome it heartily
[17:06] <NCommander> dmart: I just figured out how build the beast
[17:06] <lool> I'm pretty sure it's going to hit the next RHEL and I think they care about the ARM port there
[17:08] <armin76> thanks to me too!
[17:08] <dmart> ;)
[17:09] <dmart> mgretton: quick, take some credit before it's all gone!
[17:19] <Who_> ogra: ping - I've got an issue with building from rootstock and the wiki says to come and talk to you...
[17:19] <ogra> whats the issue ?
[17:22] <Who_> ogra: I'm using a Lucid VM to build a lucid image, and it got as far as unpacking libglibmm but has been hung for the last two (ish_) hours after outputting the message 'udevd[45]: specified user 'usbmux' unknown'
[17:22] <Who_> that message is there three times
[17:22] <ogra> yeah, known bug (and no fix yet)
[17:23] <ogra> bug 532733
[17:23] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 532733 in qemu-kvm (Ubuntu) "apt/dpkg in qemu-system-arm hangs if a big task is installed (affects: 1)" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/532733
[17:23] <Who_> ogra: so for now, there's not a way to build a lucid image that requires libglibmm?
[17:23] <Who_> ogra: thanks
[17:23] <ogra> Who_, build an image with ubuntu-minimal for now, then just apt-get install waht you need on real HW
[17:24] <ogra> minimal definately works
[17:24] <Who_> ogra: yep - I was just modifying my script :)
[17:24] <Who_> ogra: do you know much about sound on Beagle/IGEP?
[17:24] <ogra> its some mystical qemu issue i'm not able to track down properly
[17:25] <Who_> or can you point me to someone who does?
[17:25] <ogra> no, sadly not, rcn-ee builds the beagle kernel package, he might at least know the kernel side
[17:26] <Who_> ogra: it doesn't seem to be kernel related: I've got an 9.04 image (shipped with device) that has working sound and my 9.10 rootstock (using the same kernel and modules) doesn't work...
[17:26] <ogra> NCommander, so since you like to dig into the odd bugs ... i'm lost on bug 532733, probably you have any ideas
[17:26] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 532733 in qemu-kvm (Ubuntu) "apt/dpkg in qemu-system-arm hangs if a big task is installed (affects: 1)" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/532733
[17:26] <NCommander> dmart: what do we want to call teh patch?
[17:26] <ogra> Who_, try to create an audio group and add your user to it
[17:27] <persia> NCommander: dmart: Also, to whom should be given author attribution?
[17:27] <Who_> ogra: also, while I'm thinking about it... I made this for myself: https://launchpad.net/rfsm - I don't know if it is of any interest more generally - but if there's now a good way to tie it in to the rootstock system I should look at doing that... (I notice rcn-ee seems to be using a --script command)
[17:28] <ogra> Who_, rootstock in lucid has the --script option
[17:29] <ogra> Who_, even the new gui has the option to select a post install script :)
[17:30] <Who_> ogra: okay, I'll try and tie in with that
[17:31] <Who_> ogra: also, audio group already exists. I'll keep digging on the sound issue
[17:31] <dmart> NCommander: How about "privateSnippetExtractor simplification to avoid exception unwind failures and stack corruption risk" ?
[17:32] <dmart> or
[17:32] <dmart> "privateSnippetExtractor simplification to avoid exception unwind failures and stack corruption risk on ARM"
[17:32] <persia> Ideally we want a name that can also be a filename :)
[17:33] <persia> That looks like a Description: entry for DEP3
[17:33] <ogra>  branch_directly_to_cpp_vtable_call_on_arm.patch
[17:33] <ogra> and dmart's description
[17:33] <persia> Just needs Author: then.
[17:33] <dmart> Yeah, sounds ok
[17:33] <ogra> "the arm guys"
[17:34] <persia> It's supposed to be a person who can grant license for reuse in the project, etc.
[17:34] <persia> silly tort law to work around silly copyright law, etc.
[17:49] <Martyn> I'm going to spend my day porting this: http://community.livejournal.com/openvz/24651.html to Lucid
[17:49] <persia> I think that a bunch of that work was already done
[17:49] <ogra> Martyn, openvz was rejected from the ubuntu kernel
[17:49]  * persia hunts for the bug
[17:50] <Martyn> ogra : I know, but I need to get it working for a demonstration of virtualization on the A9
[17:50] <Martyn> ogra : Rejected or not ...
[17:50] <ogra> then you likely need to maintain your own kernel as well
[17:50] <Martyn> Because OpenVZ is the Path of Least Resistance .. unless you have a suggestion for a better container solution?
[17:51] <Martyn> ogra : I already do ...  the Versatile2 is anything but supported...
[17:51] <ogra> whats versatile2 ?
[17:51] <Martyn> ogra : Quad core a9 platform from ARM .. I showed one off at UDS
[17:51] <Martyn> now generally available
[17:51] <ogra> ah, you call it versatile ?
[17:51] <ogra> heh
[17:51]  * persia can't find the bug
[17:51] <Martyn> That's it's final name "Versatile2"
[17:52] <Martyn> (our internal codename for it is 'crandall')
[17:52] <ogra> i like the internal one more :)
[17:52] <Martyn> persia : If you happen to come across it, ping me<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[17:52] <ogra> Versatile makes me thing of qemu which makes me think of underpowered
[17:52] <persia> "Versatile2" is too easy to confuse with the qemu target.
[17:52] <persia> Martyn: I'm not likely to, since I didn't find it in a search.
[17:53] <Martyn> persia : The QEMU target is a simulation of /real/ hardware, called versatile :)
[17:53] <persia> Ah!
[17:53] <ogra> Martyn, which is underpowered as well :)
[17:53] <Martyn> There are various models over time .. Versatile PB, PBX, EB ...
[17:53] <Martyn> (EB is the current generation -- Cortex-A9)
[17:53] <Martyn> ogra : hey, don't scoff at a 400MHz quad core processor.   It's pretty snazzy
[17:53] <ogra> heh, ok ok
[17:54] <Martyn> ogra : And I've already got another, faster platform to play with now too -- tegra2
[17:54] <ogra> i'm waiting for the 1GHz quad cores
[17:54] <ogra> yeah
[17:54] <ogra> i'd love a tegra2
[17:54] <ogra> its the future !
[17:54] <Martyn> ogra : We're targeting 1.6GHz now.
[17:54] <Martyn> ogra : If Global Foundries becomes available to us, the second rev of the chip will be shrunk and probably hit 2.2GHz
[17:55]  * ogra thinks tegra2 will be the direct atom competiotor
[17:55] <persia> Martyn: Based on https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kernel-team/2010-March/thread.html I believe there's a git tree, but not a package.
[17:55] <Martyn> it's a nice chip, but has it's .. issues.
[17:55] <ogra> indeed, nvidia built it :)
[17:55] <Martyn> persia : Git tree of a valid, running kernel is enough
[17:55] <ogra> but i'd be willing to live with that drawback :)
[17:55] <Martyn> persia: that would save me -tons- of time
[17:56] <Martyn> ogra : I /need/ 8x PCIe .. and tegra2 doesn't have it
[17:56] <Martyn> only 1x and 4x
[17:56] <ogra> you should really switch your servers to USB
[17:56]  * ogra ducks
[17:56] <Martyn> persia : Looking at the threads, haven't found the mention of openVZ yet
[17:57] <persia> Martyn: Mail Kir for details : I didn't see a git repo listed.
[17:57] <Martyn> done already :)
[17:57] <Martyn> he has patches available for the overo
[17:57] <persia> There you go :)
[17:57] <persia> Cool.
[17:57] <Martyn> http://download.openvz.org/.kir/overo/kernel/
[17:57] <Martyn> 2.6.27 though
[17:57] <ogra> Martyn, "OpenVZ kernel for Ubuntu 10.4"
[17:57] <ogra> ids the thread name
[17:57] <persia> Martyn: If you get it all working, toss it in a PPA :)
[17:58] <persia> Yes, PPAs don't build for armel, but it means that anyone can build it easily from your source.
[17:59] <Who_> rcn-ee: are you there? I've got a sound-on-igep question (I have no sound from aplay, but can by piping to /dev/dsp) and I'm making very little headway with just my head and Google.
[18:00] <Martyn> persia : You got it
[18:00] <persia> Martyn: Thanks.
[18:00] <Martyn> persia : although if it's integrated into Lenny, would I still have to build a PPA?  (it's upstream at that point)
[18:01] <Martyn> ojn: You around?
[18:01] <Martyn> (we really need a messaging bot on channel :) )
[18:01] <persia> Martyn: If it's in Lenny, people can grab from there and build, so it doesn't matter.
[18:01] <persia> Martyn: email?
[18:01] <Martyn> mine?
[18:01] <Martyn><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[18:01] <Martyn> OH ..
[18:02] <Martyn> heh .. no, because I don't have everyone's email on channel
[18:02] <Martyn> there used to be a note-server capability on chanserv ... you could leave someone a sticky note that would be displayed when they next came on channel
[18:02] <Martyn> sort of like:
[18:02] <Martyn> chanserv, tell <recipient> <message>
[18:02] <ogra> doesnt that still work ?
[18:03] <Martyn> however it's long gone...
[18:03] <ogra> though its nickserv i think
[18:03] <persia> One can use /ms for that, I thnk
[18:03] <persia> (MemoServ)
[18:04] <ogra> ah
[18:04] <ogra> yeah
[18:04] <ogra>  /msg memoserv help ;)
[18:05] <persia> "/ms help" works
[18:05] <ogra>  /msg MemoServ SEND Martyn "get me a tegra2"
[18:06] <ogra> ;)
[18:06] <persia> "/ms send Martyn" is *shorter* and *easier* :p
[18:06] <ogra> tsk ... you embedded folks
[18:07] <ogra> *g*
[18:07] <persia> Me?  Embedded?  No.  I happen to like 3.5-4" laptops, but I want full features.
[18:11] <dmart> http://www.arm.com/products/tools/versatile-express.php
[18:13] <Martyn> Oh!  We have a msgserv again!
[18:13] <Martyn> I had no idea :)
[18:13] <Martyn> me? Embedded?
[18:14]  * Martyn points to the mid-sized tower with a Tegra2 mini-ITX board
[18:14] <Martyn> It's got 2 sata drives, a DVD burner, but is using the integrated graphics .. and a whole -2GB- of memory
[18:14] <Martyn> embedded my buttocks...
[18:15] <persia> Precisely.  ARM != embedded.
[19:08] <Who_> ogra (et al - anyone who will know): are there plans to change the build scripts for some packages in the arm repositories so they make 'more sense' on ARM - such as specifying EGL as or XEGL as the clutter backend?
[19:09] <Who_> sorry - that should have been to ogra_cmpc, I guess ^
[19:10] <persia> Are we sure that makes more sense for arbitrary hardware solutions?
[19:10] <persia> I'd much prefer not to align "armel" and "embedded" in any way.
[19:13] <Who_> persia: interesting. do you know of any armel devices with full OpenGL support (just asking, not suggesting there aren't!)?
[19:13] <Who_> persia: I guess though that there'd be no harm in a 'clutter-backend-egl' package or equivalent
[19:14] <persia> I know of armel devices with PCIe slots.
[19:14] <persia> Getting full OpenGL there is just a matter of driver testing.
[19:14] <Who_> persia: and armel drivers for the cards?
[19:15] <persia> I also stuffed some DisplayLink drivers in the archive for lucid, for which I hear there are plans to grow OpenGL support upstream.  That's USB, and arch-independent.
[19:15] <Who_> persia: okie, sounds like changing the build isn't ideal
[19:15] <persia> Who_: Why not?  No good reason any of the existing opensource drivers can't be ported.
[19:15] <persia> Who_: Well, maybe building twice and making two flavours of a binary is useful.
[19:16] <Who_> persia: Sorry - I should be more clear - I was agreeing with you that making the default packages more 'embedded' didn't make sense
[19:16] <persia> That's just tricky, and it's important to identify which packages make sense for that, and how much work.
[19:16] <Who_> but I think it would be helpful for people like me if there were some more embedded-target style packages built
[19:17] <Who_> persia: and I guess you also then need to have some (likely non OS) graphics libraries on the build system to be able to compile?
[19:17] <persia> Right, that's why I say that in some cases, two flavours may make sense.
[19:17] <persia> I'm not sure I understand that last question.
[19:19] <Who_> persia: My understanding is that in order to build Clutter with, for example, an EGL backend, you would need to have EGL development headers on the system - are there Open Source headers that you can link against, and then still get hw accelerated performance on systems that have hardware drivers?
[19:20] <persia> But I think the real solution for X is to have a more pluggable GL library, so that various libraries can register the ability to do various functions, using a GPU, CPU, DSP, etc. (whatever hardware happens to be available).
[19:20] <persia> Oh.  I have no idea if there are open-source EGL headers available.
[19:26] <Who_> persia: seems so http://www.khronos.org/registry/gles/
[19:26] <persia> Cool.
[19:26] <persia> It's probably too late for lucid, but we ought be able to get that stuff into the next release.
[19:41] <Who_> persia: sounds sweet
[19:42] <Who_> persia: I made sound work on my IGEP, but the process was a bit... confusing... I'm not entirely sure I should have needed to do what I had to do (run .snddevices from the alsa-driver source package on the arm) - is it worth raising as a bug, or is it too device specific?
[19:42] <Who_> persia: more specifically, I made aplay work. Pulseaudio is still unhappy
[19:44] <persia> It's worth filing as a bug.  If you're not using a distro kernel, and it looks like a kernel thing, don't be too surprised if it gets rejected.
[19:46] <Who_> persia: I _think_ it's a kernel thing - I don't know where the line between kernel and userspace is when it comes to alsa. I am using the kernel sources from the board manufacturere
[19:46] <persia> If you want help with investigation, file a bug :)
[19:46] <persia> Worst case someone tells you it's your kernel.
[19:47] <Who_> :)
[20:07] <Who_> persia: on further investigation, it seems udev is at fault, as it is supposed to create these devices. any new thoughts?
[20:08] <persia> If it's udev, file a bug.
[20:08] <persia> But udev mostly relies on kernel events, so it might be a kernel issue or a udev rules issue.  Hard to say without looking closely.
[23:46] <andruk> i followed the guide at http://elinux.org/BeagleBoardUbuntu page and im getting "Unhandled fault: external abort on non-linefetch (0x1018) at 0x40..." errors on booting my Beagleboard rev C4.  im not new to coding, but im new to kernel debugging...help?
[23:49] <persia> Unfortunately, the best person to help you is rcn-ee, who tends to be idle at this time of day.
[23:50] <rcn-ee> sweet timing.. just walked in after work...
[23:50] <persia> Wonderful :)
[23:50] <rcn-ee> andruk, those errors are annoying, but safe to ignore..
[23:51] <rcn-ee> aka i haven't debugged to figure out what it was, but it doesn't seem to affect anything.. ;)
[23:53] <rcn-ee> persia, just noticed this last night: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/TopicBranches  your kernel guys are going to be busy. ;)
[23:54] <persia> so they say :)
[23:54] <persia> rcn-ee: Feel free to jump into #ubuntu-kernel if you want to help push that effort.
[23:55] <rcn-ee> persia, of course.. ;) already queied my first patch https://code.launchpad.net/~beagleboard-kernel/+junk/lucid-ti-omap
[23:56] <rcn-ee> still need the beagle/iegp2 to boot before i open my mouth on ubuntu-kernel. ;)
[23:57] <persia> heh.


[01:55] <technomensch> evening everyone
[02:10] <ryanakca> Would it be of value to remove all the wiki pages that have ``HOWTO''s for any release prior to and including Edgy that can't be ported to a current release?
[04:55] <Burgundavia> ryanakca: even feisty is now EOL
[07:59] <mdke> ryanakca: yes, out of date pages should be tagged either for updating or deletion, as per https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Tag
[11:53] <ryanakca> mdke: thanks


[02:18] <wo0f> What is the proper way to disable netplan?
[02:21] <wo0f> or thr proper way to gracefully handle direct networkd/networkmanger configuration?


[19:40] <justadude> ola. Anybody know where I can get an Ubuntu phone in Greece? Online store for preference?


[16:19] <rexxor> hey guys, got a small problem with an autossh upstart job
[16:19] <rexxor> i have to actually log into the server (on boot) for the job to start, is this normal?
[21:56] <weallneeda3minut> where do I find the upstart logs on Amazon Linux? my uwsgi script doesn't seem to boot on start


[04:48] <icyvapor> ssid problem: everytime I reboot, my wireless config always change the format of ssid to Hex whereas my router uses plain ascii... where should I fix it?


[10:27]  * Derath-Srvr yawns
[20:45] <jrgifford> Derath-Srvr: that's what happens when you jump from 2008 to 2014.
[20:45] <jrgifford> that's 6 years of technological advances, people nursing pet peeves, etc.
[20:47]  * skellat notes that tx0.org apparently fell over
[20:47]  * skellat finds the link to LoCo Team Portal a bit long to put in the topic
[20:51] <Unit193> skellat: Find the bug with apt-offline yet?
[20:51] <skellat> No
[20:51] <skellat> No I haven't
[20:52] <skellat> Have you filed a bug report upstream?
[20:52] <Unit193> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=742578
[20:52] <jenni> [ #742578 - apt-offline: --simulate is dropped from apt - Debian Bug report logs ] - https://j.mp/1jFz1Ha
[20:52] <Unit193> I used a git snapshot, no issues.
[20:53] <Unit193> Used it a couple times, won't ever again.:P
[20:55] <skellat> If a new version hits unstable in time and gets copied over I'll probably file a backport request to get it to trusty


[21:58] <bekks> glighta: can you pastebin the full command and the full output of what you are trying? Provide the pastebin URL please.
[21:58] <zerowaitstate> rhapsody: those are conflict records in the metadata, not detected conflicts
[21:59] <zerowaitstate> rhapsody: that is something apt-get will check for before installing a package
[21:59] <rhapsody> zerowaitstate, ah
[21:59] <glighta> bekks, I can give you a vagrant file if you wish
[21:59] <MonkeyDust> bjensen82  man apt-cache may be useful
[21:59] <bekks> glighta: Thats not helping in solving your issue at all.
[21:59] <glighta> else you won't show much on 1 paste, the apt-cache is set on another node. alright let me try to paste it somewhere
[21:59] <Scrivener> Well I regret many things in my life, and pressing Super + P out of curiosity is one of them.
[22:00] <bekks> glighta: apt-cache is not downloading anything - so what are you actually trying?
[22:00] <zerowaitstate> rhapsody: what does your /etc/apt/apt-file.conf show?
[22:00] <Scrivener> So I used Super + P. It changed my resolution in a multi-display (3 display) setup, and also screwed up just about everything else with the displays.
[22:00] <Scrivener> Rotation, position.
[22:01] <Scrivener> And when I got the position and rotation back, I try to reset the resolution to its proper state and get this error
[22:01] <Scrivener> "GDBus.Error:org.gtk.GDBus.UnmappedGError.Quark._gnome_2drr_2derror_2dquark.Code2: could not set the configuration for CRTC 63"
[22:01] <Scrivener> After selecting the option through the standard Ubuntu displays menu
[22:01] <Scrivener> My 3rd display now draws half of its content onto the main laptop display
[22:01] <Scrivener> How can I undo whatever I just did?
[22:01] <glighta> well I,m storing file on nodeA=apt-cache server; on nodeB and nodeC, it use nodeA as apt-get proxy. (so I don't dl packge twice..)
[22:01] <rhapsody> zerowaitstate, there is no apt-file.conf, do you mean apt.conf?
[22:02] <glighta> in very short
[22:02] <Scrivener> Draws it over and flickers whenever any actions are taking, so my main display is completely unusable right now.
[22:02] <zerowaitstate> rhapsody: look in /etc/apt
[22:02] <bekks> glighta: And HTTP 403 tells you the file isnt there.
[22:02] <rhapsody> zerowaitstate, i did a ls /etc/apt/*.conf and there is not apt-file.conf
[22:02] <glighta> ye well he said the file pattern is forbiden mostly
[22:02] <bekks> glighta: So we need the full commands, full output and all details about what you did there - in a pastebin :)
[22:03] <rhapsody> zerowaitstate, all i have is /etc/apt/apt.conf
[22:03] <bjensen82> MonkeyDust: ok i just read the docs for apt-cache and tried showpkg, showsrc, show neither of which showed me the configure options
[22:03] <glighta> but I didn't saw anywhere where to change that. the regex I saw had tar.gz allowed so it seem all fine
[22:03] <Scrivener> I'm in Ubuntu 14.04 LTS.
[22:03] <MonkeyDust> bjensen82  then i don't know, i'm sure someone else can help better
[22:04] <Scrivener> I've handily screwed up any chances of getting anything done at my desk anymore.  You could use tcpdump to log packets during a request and determine these things yourself by looking at the dump (possibly with the help of wireshark).
[22:09] <zerowaitstate> rhapsody: I tend to be a suspicious type. When I see stuff like that it worries me
[22:09] <bekks> glighta: Both regexps dont allow that filename. So the message is correct so far.
[22:10] <chalupa_batman>  /msg NickServ VERIFY REGISTER chalupa_batman libznbfzpmlu
[22:10] <zerowaitstate> rhapsody: normally, installed debian software that modifies your apt config will put their stuff in /etc/apt/apt.conf.d
[22:10] <MonkeyDust> chalupa_batman  change your password!
[22:10] <rhapsody> zerowaitstate, wow that is unreal.  thank you very much for your help.  thanks to tumbl3r, Bashing-om, MonkeyDust also
[22:10] <bekks> glighta: Could you please pastebin your entire apt-cacher (which is totally different from apt-cache as ou mentioned it earlier) configuration file?
[22:11] <Bashing-om> rhapsody: :) Glad zerowaitstate had the witts to find it ! .. I live and learn .
[22:11] <rhapsody> zerowaitstate, ok that is good to know in general
[22:11] <glighta> this one bekks ? /etc/apt-cacher/apt-cacher.conf
[22:12] <rhapsody> Bashing-om, i agree.  this channel is teaching me lots, I must stick around
[22:12] <bekks> glighta: yeah
[22:12] <glighta> oh you right , I tought there was a direct |tar.gz| without prefix, let me give a little try. actually I had one edit for index_files_regexp
[22:12] <Bashing-om> rhapsody: Do hang about, some great minds glow brightly here .
[22:13] <zerowaitstate> rhapsody: I would strongly recommend doing a dpkg verify of installed files after you are done updating.
[22:13] <rhapsody> zerowaitstate, I will do that
[22:14] <glighta> http://pastebin.com/DtjWLFxj
[22:14] <zerowaitstate> rhapsody: I would also compare your GPG key to the repository to make sure it hasn't been tampered with
[22:16] <FRISI95> ciao
[22:16] <FRISI95> !list
[22:17] <NegativeFlare> !english | FRISI95
[22:19] <rhapsody> zerowaitstate, ok I will have to look up how to do both of those things
[22:19] <Basketball>  "Anyone know if it's possible to make Google Docs open inside Chrome, the default app for .docx files?"
[22:21] <glighta> k guess I'll just do that for this : http://askubuntu.com/questions/551474/java-installation-error-using-apt-cacher
[22:21] <glighta> even if that sucks =(
[22:23] <glighta> ye working =(
[22:34] <JEEBsv> hmm, anyone interested in looking into a drm/intel failure with a first-gen macbook on 14.10?
[22:34] <JEEBsv> http://up-cat.net/p/ab549095
[22:35] <sparr> I'm getting stuck at a grub rescue prompt. I'm trying to follow various online information about fixing the problem. I've found my root partition, and I can see that /boot/grub exists with files in it, and /boot/grub/i386-pc/ has many .mod files. However, there is no "linux.mod", and everyone seems to want me to have that file. Can anyone suggest what might have gone wrong?
[22:35] <JEEBsv> it seems to happen every time I boot, but it only leads to non-bootableness about half the time
[22:35] <jk> when i try to add my ppa i get the following error: Error: signing key fingerprint does not exist
[22:36] <Jordan_U> JEEBsv: Have you filed a bug report as the error message suggest you should do?
[22:36] <JEEBsv> Jordan_U: it's against a kernel that is only supported by canonical at this point so I wasn't sure
[22:36] <JEEBsv> 3.16 is not a long-term supported kernel
[22:36] <JEEBsv> so I wasn't sure
[22:36] <k1l_> NymeriaFR: just for your interest: the founder of this issue asked for a cve just today, some hours ago. so there cant be a update if its not known.
[22:37] <JEEBsv> of course it gets even better if you try to boot with 3.19
[22:37] <JEEBsv> because that never succeeds
[22:37] <JEEBsv> :V
[22:37] <JEEBsv> 3.18 is similar to 3.16
[22:38] <JEEBsv> the mainline kernel builds available at 'buntu at least make testing kind of simple
[22:38] <jk> when i try to add my ppa i get the following error: Error: signing key fingerprint does not exist
[22:40] <ziikutv> Hello
[22:41] <Jordan_U> sparr: You can run "set" to view the currently set environment variables. What is the value of $prefix and $root?
[22:41] <ziikutv> I have a dual-booted windows with ubuntu
[22:41] <Bashing-om> sparr: Mine: ls -al /boot/grub/i386-pc/linux* >> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 13076 Oct 14 16:18 /boot/grub/i386-pc/linux.mod . Have you tried (RE-)installing grub from the liveDVD ( CHRoot ?) .
[22:41] <ziikutv> Unfortunately its not even starting, and I would appreciate if someone can help me remove it?
[22:42] <dixie__> ziikutv: what are you trying to remove?
[22:42] <ziikutv> The ubuntu
[22:42] <sparr> Bashing-om: I can see now that I have /boot/grub/i386-pc/linux.mod so my problem is how to get insmod to see it at the grub rescue prompt
[22:42] <ziikutv> Its on the same harddrive too. And I am pretty sure, simply removing the patition is not okay.
[22:42] <Jordan_U> ziikutv: What happens when you try to boot Ubuntu? What happens when you try to boot Windows?
[22:42] <sparr> Jordan_U: prefix=(boot-root)/boot/grub and root=boot-root
[22:43] <ziikutv> When I select windows, it goes to another "os selection screen" windows 7 or windows 8 (its left behind from the time I had windows 8)
[22:43] <ziikutv> when I select windows 7, I am able to get in.. when I seelct ubuntu, black screen sometimes it starts and sometimes nothing.
[22:43] <Jordan_U> sparr: "insmod linux" (which will probably result in an error message about missing symbols, or you wouldn't be at a grub rescue shell in the first place).
[22:43] <sparr> Jordan_U: when I do "ls (boot-root)/boot/grub/i386-pc/" i can see linux.mod. when I do "insmod linux" i get "error: file not found"
[22:44] <sparr> Jordan_U: ok, changed my prefix to (boot-root)/boot/grub/i386-pc/ and now when I do "insmod linux" I get a symbol not found error
[22:44] <sparr> error: symbol not found: `grub_realidt'.
[22:45] <Jordan_U> sparr: You have a *really* old verson of grub installed in your mbr/embedded area, and a current version in /boot/grub/.
[22:45] <sparr> it has likely been more than a year since this machine was rebooted
[22:46] <Jordan_U> sparr: You can boot from a LiveCD and re-install grub to fix this, and if you have more than one hard drive it's likely that just changing the boot order in your BIOS will allow you to boot (because you have a proper grub installation on the MBR of your other drive).
[22:46] <dixie__> ziikutv: the easiest way to get rid of an ubuntu installation is to just get rid of it's partition, but I'd be willing to bet that there was probably an issue when you installed ubuntu and for one of 1000 reasons it won't boot.  If you want to keep the ubuntu installation, you can just reinstall formatting the existing ubuntu partition and it should work.  The other option would be to boot a live cd and run grub-install to fix the
[22:46] <dixie__> bootloader.  good luck.
[22:46] <sparr> Jordan_U: I cannot immediately boot from other media.
[22:47] <JEEBsv> Jordan_U: do you know how well those freedesktop folks take reports on kernels that are only supported by canonical?
[22:47] <JEEBsv> for DRM/Intel
[22:47] <Jordan_U> ziikutv: Removing Ubunut will not help your problem with not being able to boot Windows, as evidenced by the fact that grub is properly loading Windows' bootloader and at that point if anything fails its due to a problem with your Windows installation.
[22:48] <JEEBsv> of course, I guess mentioning that it also fails with 3.18 would help with that :V
[22:49] <Jordan_U> dixie__: You can *not* just remove Ubuntu's partition to uninstall Ubuntu, that will leave you with a broken grub installation meaning you won't be able to boot into Windows either. Please be more careful about giving advice in the future.
[22:49] <JEEBsv> ugh, freedesktop bug tracker needs a registration :|
[22:50] <Jordan_U> JEEBsv: I expect that they would appreciate the bug report, especially since as you already said you're testing newer mainline kernels as well.
[22:50] <Jordan_U> ziikutv: Removing Ubunut will not help your problem with not being able to boot Windows, as evidenced by the fact that grub is properly loading Windows' bootloader and at that point if anything fails its due to a problem with your Windows installation.
[22:50] <ziikutv> uh
[22:51] <Jordan_U> ziikutv: You should *not* just remove Ubuntu's partition either way, as that will just make the situation worse. If you'd like me to walk you through properly uninstalling Ubuntu I will, but again it won't get you any closer to booting Windows.
[22:52] <winterchillz> hey guys
[22:52] <JEEBsv> Jordan_U: yeah - I guess I'll bite the bullet after I grab some sleep. I guess I'm always hoping to catch some 'buntu kernel/i915 person or someone with a 1st gen intel macbook to either be able to do some live debugging, or at least learn if it's just my laptop or not
[22:52] <JEEBsv> I only have one of these on hand, after all :D
[22:53] <winterchillz> can anyone recommend a good package of irc server and services for ubuntu server? I've been struggling with ircd-hybrid 8 for a while now and I just can't get the services to connect to it
[22:53] <ziikutv1> Jordan_U: Hello, i got disconnected.
[22:53] <winterchillz> currently trying out Anope but the compile process is taking a while so I decided to hop on and quickly ask around
[22:53] <ziikutv1> Well no I think the problem is with my ubuntu install
[22:53] <ziikutv1> my windows is fine from before.
[22:54] <ziikutv1> I am still able to get in and use windows but when I select ubuntu from the grub menu it either doesnt do anything or it logs me in automatically (i checked automatically signin option if that makes a difference)
[22:54] <Jordan_U> ziikutv1: I don't understand. Can you successfully boot Windows currently or not?
[22:55] <ziikutv1> yes
[22:55] <ziikutv1> but not ubuntu
[22:55] <ziikutv1> So I want it off from my harddrive
[22:55] <Bam_> yus
[22:55] <dixie__> ziikutv1: the bootloader loads the kernel into memory and starts the init process.  if ubuntu won't start, your problem is more than likely in your bootloader.  re-installing grub would fix this.
[22:56] <Jordan_U> ziikutv1: Ahh, OK. I misunderstood your situation then. Is this a BIOS or UEFI based system?
[22:56] <ziikutv1> UEFI
[22:56] <EriC^^> ziikutv1: you can have both if you want..
[22:56] <dixie__> Jordan_U: good question!
[22:56] <ziikutv1> No I cannot
[22:56] <EriC^^> ziikutv1: yes you can
[22:56] <Jordan_U> dixie__: I highly doubt that this is a grub problem, as the grub menu is being shown without problem.
[22:56] <ziikutv1> unfortunately I do not think I am clear, the ubuntu does not login or start all ALL!
[22:56] <EriC^^> ziikutv1: why do you say that?
[22:56] <ziikutv1> at all*!
[22:56] <EriC^^> ziikutv1: do you get a grub menu?
[22:57] <Jordan_U> ziikutv1: OK. Can you boot from an Ubuntu LiveCD/USB?
[22:57] <EriC^^> ziikutv1: do you get a purple screen to select windows or ubuntu?
[22:57] <ziikutv1> EriC^^: Yes from the grub menu if i pick ubuntu, nothing happens (or sometimes it logs me in to ubuntu but most of the time black screen, nothign!)
[22:57] <EriC^^> ziikutv1: ok well that's unrelated to windows completely
[22:58] <ziikutv1> Exactly.
[22:58] <EriC^^> i mean removing windows wont help
[22:58] <ziikutv1> Its my ubuntu, i managed to F it up.
[22:58] <winterchillz> maybe the boot loader is failing to communicate with the kernel and initramfs
[22:58] <EriC^^> ziikutv1: did you try running an older kernel?
[22:58] <winterchillz> EriC^^, I believe he wants to rm Ubuntu instead
[22:58] <Jordan_U> ziikutv1: If so, please do so and then run "sudo efibootmgr" and post the output it gives to http://pastebin.ubuntu.com then post a link to the output here. We will use efibootmgr to make Windows' bootloader default again, after which we can safely remove Ubuntu.
[22:58] <ziikutv1> yes I want to simply remove ubuntu partition and get rid of grub
[22:58] <dixie__> Jordan_U: if the grub.cfg isn't correct, ubuntu won't load.  I run into this mostly when building os images. grub won't find what it needs, and best case senario you get dropped to a grub prompt.  worst case, you get a funny error about inability initramfs.
[22:58] <EriC^^> ziikutv1: did you try booting with nomodeset ?
[22:58] <EriC^^> winterchillz: oh ok
[22:59] <ziikutv1> EriC^^: No, I recall several months ago that UEFI had to do smth like that.
[22:59] <ziikutv1> Jordan_U: Okay
[22:59] <EriC^^> ziikutv1: it could be a bad kernel, or bad graphics driver
[22:59] <ziikutv1> most likely graphics
[22:59] <ziikutv1> i was playing with that at the time
[22:59] <EriC^^> ziikutv1: try an older kernel, go to advanced in grub, and choose an older one
[23:00] <ziikutv1> I will try that later
[23:00] <ziikutv1> right now i just want to get rid of this
[23:00] <ziikutv1> Jordan_U: I will go offline and comeback
[23:00] <EriC^^> ziikutv1: ok, try to boot with nomodeset then or boot normally press ctrl+alt+f1 , and install the proper drivers
[23:00] <ziikutv1> Nah, just going to remove the ubuntu for now as I do not need it.
[23:00] <ziikutv1> thanks tho! :)
[23:01] <EriC^^> ok np
[23:01] <dixie__> good luck
[23:01] <winterchillz> so, guys, any suggestions for irc server with services for ubuntu? As I said, I've been playing around with ircd-hybrid and different services packages for hours now
[23:02] <winterchillz> but I can't get the services like NickServ and ChanServ to connect to the network
[23:02] <winterchillz> currently trying out Anope but the compile takes a while so I thought it might be a good idea to ask around
[23:03] <dixie__> winterchillz: there used to be a package in ubuntu's repositories called hybserv that provides services for ircd-hybrid, I think it's depreciated in favor of anope services. Last time I checked, there was no package for it, but it installs from source pretty well.
[23:04] <winterchillz> yep, tried hybserv with download from github but it's failing to compile
[23:04] <dixie__> winterchillz: seems like you're on the right track
[23:04] <winterchillz> so that's why I'm currently trying out Anope
[23:04] <dixie__> what's failing?
[23:04] <back-ziikutv> Jordan_U: I am in "Try Ubuntu"
[23:04] <genii> winterchillz: There's also inspircd
[23:04] <dixie__> yeah, just compile anope services.
[23:04] <back-ziikutv> sudo: efibootmgr: command not found
[23:05] <winterchillz> eh, something with the conf file, for some reason it doesn't pick the 'define' function
[23:05] <winterchillz> anope is going good so far
[23:05] <winterchillz> genii, thanks for the advice, noted
[23:05] <Jordan_U> back-ziikutv: sudo apt-get install efibootmgr
[23:06] <back-ziikutv> Jordan_U: http://privatepaste.com/7025d8dd3f
[23:07] <dlam> @Jordan_U:  thanks for the tcpdump tip!  (an hour ago)   ...just wanna see why/how   http://foobar.com/important-script.js is taking so long
[23:08] <back-ziikutv> Jordan_U: That paste contains the response
[23:09] <back-ziikutv> Jordan_U: If you prefer pastebin, http://pastebin.com/77AMfu0J
[23:10] <back-ziikutv> can anyone else assist?
[23:10] <back-ziikutv> seems like jordan is gone
[23:10] <winterchillz> hmm, wondering why does it say 'BootCurrent: 0007'
[23:10] <winterchillz> does it mean it's booting the USB drive?
[23:11] <back-ziikutv> winterchillz: well i was told to use the "Live CD" which I have on my USB
[23:11] <Jordan_U> back-ziikutv: Interesting. This is not what I would normally expect.
[23:11] <back-ziikutv> Jordan_U: Why not?
[23:12] <back-ziikutv> This is just boot order why does this affect the ubuntu partion or grub or any other bootstrapper
[23:12] <Jordan_U> back-ziikutv: You don't have any UEFI entries for Ubuntu *or* Windows, only a generic entry to boot from the hard drive.
[23:12] <back-ziikutv> i see, tbh I have had many trouble with this UEFI shit
[23:13] <back-ziikutv> I dont know WHY the MOBO manufacts made such a shit, i mean yey I have a mouseis bois.. but shit!
[23:13] <back-ziikutv> (excuse language)
[23:14] <winterchillz> off-topic, I've clashed with UEFI only once so far, using old rig here, had to help a friend and that UEFI crap totally wasted my time
[23:14] <winterchillz> hate it ever since
[23:14] <dixie__> uefi is both awesome and awful all at the same time for me
[23:14]  * TJ- prefers UEFI
[23:15] <Jordan_U> back-ziikutv: Did you at any point use boot repair or any other tools to try to get the grub menu to show up in the first place?
[23:15] <TJ-> BIOS and UEFI implementations both, can contain bugs though, and right now we're experiencing with UEFI the same issues we did with PC-BIOS in the late '90s and early 00's
[23:15] <back-ziikutv> Jordan_U: Nope
[23:15] <back-ziikutv> Followed the steps of some guide exactly to tee
[23:15] <back-ziikutv> i think
[23:16] <Basketball> how do I use update-alternatives to open a file in google docs
[23:16] <TJ-> back-ziikutv: If you're using the Live Ubuntu, have you used gparted or some other tool to check the partition layout on the disk(s) ?
[23:16] <dixie__> Basketball: good question!  although I have no idea how to do it.
[23:17] <Jordan_U> back-ziikutv: Please post a link to the guide you followed. From what I'm seeing, you must have copied shim.efi to BOOTX64.efi, which Ubuntu does not do automatically, to get grub to load without an explicit UEFI boot entry.
[23:17] <sheena1> i'm trying to use a liveusb to get an ibm thinkpad to run and it claims "missing operating system" when i boot it from the usb. i've never had this issue before.
[23:17] <Jordan_U> sheena1: How did you prepare the LiveUSB?
[23:17] <back-ziikutv> Ill try to find it
[23:18] <sheena1> Jordan_U: with the usb creator.. it's not recent. but it works great in my gateway, and i've used it on a couple friends' laptops.. this laptop is quite old and im wondering if thats the issue, but i have no idea how to tell?
[23:18] <TJ-> sheena1: Are you 100% sure the PC is actually trying to boot from the USB? If so, have you checked the USB is bootable/readable on another PC?
[23:18] <sheena1> TJ-: I'm as sure as i can be. it displays the brand name of the usb stick inthe boot menu. and yes, i did check, it works great on mygateway
[23:19] <TJ-> sheena1: You may need to enter the PC's BIOS settings, find the boot order options, and ensure that the USB device is set to be tried as a boot device
[23:19] <back-ziikutv> Jordan_U: Cant I just remove the parittion and fix MBR from windows disk
[23:19] <sheena1> TJ-: already done that. have set it and made sure it's enabled
[23:19] <Jordan_U> sheena1: What version of Ubuntu did you put on the USB? What version of Ubuntu did you run startup disk creator from?
[23:19] <winterchillz> TJ-, sheena1, I had someone having issues with booting from USB due to non-UEFI creation in the past. Maybe you misclicked and selected UEFI boot system?
[23:20] <sheena1> im pretty sure its trusty, from trusty. would that affect whether it would work in some computers but not others?
[23:20] <back-ziikutv> Jordan_U: Dont think I remember what key words i used :(
[23:20] <Jordan_U> back-ziikutv: No, that would be what you would do for a BIOS based installation, and if you had just used Ubuntu's installer and done nothing else then just removing Ubuntu would be fine. But it looks like you've done more than what Ubuntu's installer does, which is why I'd like to see the guide you followed.
[23:20] <TJ-> sheena1: OK ... there are some weird PC BIOSes that have buggy boot-strap code that reports the wrong boot device number to the boot loader; but usually that'll pass by the "Missing OS" stage. It sound to me like a BIOS that looks for at least one MBR partition being marked as Active/bootable
[23:21] <buddd> preference for white or black terminal background?
[23:22] <Jordan_U> !bootinfo | back-ziikutv
[23:22] <winterchillz> buddd, black text on white background personally
[23:23] <sheena1> TJ-: if so, how can I make that work?.. or can i?
[23:23] <TJ-> sheena1: In another PC, use "sudo fdisk -l /dev/sdX" to check that one of the partitions on the USB is marked as bootable/active (usually by means of an "*").
[23:23] <Jordan_U> sparr: Try running "exit".
[23:24] <TJ-> sheena1: If not, use 'fdisk' to mark one, and try again on the Thinkpad.
[23:24] <sheena1> TJ-: stand by :)
[23:25] <back-ziikutv> Jordan_U: I remember vaugle that I had to make two parittions, one that was twice the size of my ram in GB for "swap" and one for installing ubuntu which i did
[23:26] <back-ziikutv> Jordan_U: Here are the results of the BootScript http://pastebin.com/nFLd8vFE
[23:27] <buddd> is there a way to update vagrant fro the command line
[23:28] <sheena1> TJ-: fdisk gives me a notice that "this doesn't look like a partition table"
[23:28] <TJ-> sheena1: Urghh!
[23:28] <sheena1> nothing says bootable, active or has an asterisk
[23:28] <back-ziikutv> buddd: Join #Vagrant for that.
[23:28] <sheena1> ... but this usb boot from other computers. is that expected?
[23:29] <TJ-> sheena1: what was the command line you used?
[23:29] <sheena1> home@home:~$ sudo fdisk -l /dev/sdb1
[23:29] <TJ-> sheena1: Lose the "1"
[23:29] <sheena1> Disk /dev/sdb1: 16.0 GB ... thats the right size etc
[23:29] <sheena1> ah
[23:29] <sheena1> yes, asterisk under Boot
[23:30] <TJ-> sheena1: partition table lives on the device, not in partition #1 :)
[23:30] <sheena1> got it :)
[23:30] <sheena1> /dev/sdb1   *          32    31266815    15633392    c  W95 FAT32 (LBA)
[23:30] <sheena1> thats the asterisk you wanted, riht?
[23:30] <TJ-> sheena1: OK, so that test rules out my 2nd hypothesis
[23:31] <sheena1> ok
[23:31] <Jordan_U> !bootinfo | sheena1
[23:32] <TJ-> Jordan_U: I doubt that's going to help in this case; the USB not booting is the issue, on 1 PC
[23:35] <Jordan_U> TJ-: I'm honestly pretty baffled as to what could be happening, and I don't know what to be looking for at the moment. Somethimes when I have no idea what to look for, looking at the boot info script still allows me to find something odd that leads to a solution.
[23:35] <back-ziikutv> Jordan_U: I think I am just going to do a full wipe and install windows 8.1
[23:36] <TJ-> Jordan_U: yeah I know :) but my point is as the Thinkpad fails at the BIOS stage, there is no opportunity to run bootinfo
[23:37] <Jordan_U> back-ziikutv: Wait, it actually all makes sense now. You have a UEFI based system, but your have both Ubuntu and Windows installed for BIOS.
[23:37] <felice> lol
[23:38] <dixie__> well there's your problem right there
[23:38] <sheena1> Syslinux looks at sector 1454688 of /dev/sdb1 for  second stage. SYSLINUX is installed in the  The integrity check of the ADV area failed. to the info in the boot sector, sdb1 starts at 0. But according to the info from fdisk, sdb1 at sector 32.
[23:38] <Jordan_U> back-ziikutv: sudo software-properties-gtk -e universe && sudo apt-get install mbr && sudo install-mbr /dev/sda
[23:38] <sheena1> TJ-:  I can pastebin the whole thing, but that might be the relevant bit?
[23:39] <Jordan_U> back-ziikutv: Running that command will install an MS style MBR, and when you reboot you should therefore be taken directly to Windows. After that you can safely remove your Ubuntu partitions.
[23:39] <sheena1> oh Jordan_U not TJ-
[23:39] <sheena1> sorry
[23:39] <Jordan_U> sheena1: Please pastebin the whole thing.
[23:40] <sheena1> http://pastebin.com/QXJ0EcAW Jordan_U
[23:41] <back-ziikutv> Okay lets try that
[23:42] <back-ziikutv> Jordan_U: Universe repo does not work for me
[23:42] <Jordan_U> back-ziikutv: Please pastebin the output of the command I gave.
[23:43] <back-ziikutv> Jordan_U: http://pastebin.com/RCmyL0p8
[23:43] <sheena1> TJ-: Jordan_U any ideas?
[23:44] <Jordan_U> sheena1: sudo add-apt-repository multiverse && sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get install mbr && sudo install-mbr /dev/sda
[23:44] <back-ziikutv> Jordan_U: I think the first command is deprecated
[23:45] <back-ziikutv> Yup fixed it already :)
[23:45] <Jordan_U> sheena1: Ignore that last comment please :)
[23:45] <back-ziikutv> Its updating now.
[23:45] <sheena1> Jordan_U:  installing the mbr is not useful?
[23:45] <wilornel_> Hey guys! Why does ubuntu not let me update cmake to 2.8.9 ?
[23:45] <Jordan_U> sheena1: That message was intended for back-ziikutv.
[23:45] <wilornel_> Hey guys! Why does ubuntu not let me update cmake to 2.8.9 ?
[23:46] <back-ziikutv> Jordan_U: The second command errors out, soemthing about process. the third worked by itself
[23:46] <Bashing-om> !info cmake | wilornel_
[23:46] <wilornel_> I've read that I need to update ubuntu to 12.10.. but why is that?
[23:46] <sheena1> Jordan_U: got it.
[23:46] <k1l_> wilornel_: what ubuntu are you on?
[23:46] <k1l_> wilornel_: "lsb_release -d"
[23:46] <wilornel_> 12.04
[23:47] <Jordan_U> wilornel_: Do *not* upgrade to Ubuntu 12.10, 12.10 is EOL.
[23:47] <back-ziikutv> Jordan_U: Paste of the new error http://pastebin.com/2zzcVGML
[23:47] <wilornel_> 12.04.4 LTS
[23:47] <k1l_> wilornel_: the only upgrade you *could* do is to 14.04.
[23:47] <wilornel_> I'm not planning to either
[23:47] <k1l_> wilornel_: but why do you need cmake 2.8.9?
[23:48] <back-ziikutv> Jordan_U: Nevermind, fixed it.
[23:48] <wilornel_> Well, why can't I just update the cmake command?
[23:48] <k1l_> wilornel_: there are depencies and that will cause problems?
[23:48] <back-ziikutv> Jordan_U: Should I reboot now?
[23:48] <wilornel_> When I try to compile the glfw library, I receive an error telling me "Cmake 2.8.9 or higher is required"
[23:48] <wilornel_> k1l_: I see
[23:48] <Jordan_U> back-ziikutv: If install-mbr ran without error, then yes.
[23:49] <k1l_> wilornel_: well, see if a PPA solved that issue already
[23:49] <wilornel_> So I guess the only solution is to upgrade to 14.04
[23:49] <wilornel_> alright, let's see
[23:49] <k1l_> wilornel_: like this: https://launchpad.net/~kalakris/+archive/ubuntu/cmake
[23:49] <wilornel_> Er, what should I be looking for exactly on PPA?
[23:50] <wilornel_> Oh, nice
[23:51] <k1l_> or see here: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas?name_filter=cmake
[23:51] <Jordan_U> sheena1: It might be worth trying grub instead of syslinux, though I don't know why that *should* make a difference.
[23:51] <k1l_> but its yours and the PPA maintainers responsibility then to have a watch on bugs and security
[23:51] <jonz> so anyonne know anything about problems with th authenication service?
[23:52] <wilornel_> How did you find Mrinal's cmake 2.8.11 so quickly?
[23:52] <wilornel_> k1l_: I understand
[23:52] <sheena1> Jordan_U: i have no idea how to even approach/try that.. any info?
[23:52] <Jordan_U> sheena1: Please pastebin the output of "sudo mount /dev/sdb1 /mnt/ && find /mnt/".
[23:52] <wilornel_> Is there a sort of reputation system so I could know which repositories have less bugs or security issues?
[23:53] <jonz> I updated from 14.04 to 14.10 and now the shutdown and restart buttons dont work, I cant access my windows partitions in a file browser and software center cant install or remove anything
[23:53] <jonz> I've been googling and trying a lot of things
[23:53] <sheena1> Jordan_U: http://pastebin.com/mqwAYzbi
[23:54] <buddd> no one'sanswering questions in the vagrant channel, so trying my luck here: http://pastebin.com/0B1qEaiY
[23:55] <EriC^^> jonz: open a terminal and type sudo apt-get -f install
[23:55] <EriC^^> jonz: and sudo parted -l
[23:55] <EriC^^> paste here
[23:55] <EriC^^> i mean paste in paste.ubuntu.com
[23:56] <Jordan_U> sheena1: :( It's a 32 bit Ubuntu liveUSB, which means that it doesn't include a /boot/grub/grub.cfg already.
[23:56] <Jordan_U> sheena1: Is the computer you're installing to 32 bit only?
[23:56] <sheena1> i cant imagine its not a 32 bit computer?? its from 2003 or something
[23:56] <TJ-> sheena1: Back to basics... If the Thinkpad reports "Missing OS" but we know its there and does boot on other PCs, then the issue is definitely with the boot mechanism of the Thinkpad.
[23:56] <jonz> http://paste.ubuntu.com/10212182/
[23:57] <sheena1> TJ- and Jordan_U.. real life calls and I must leave the keyboard for a bit. I will return !
[23:57] <TJ-> sheena1: Can you/have you tried to boot it from a CD/DVD?
[23:57] <TJ-> sheena1: Also, have you tried other USB ports on the Thinkpad?
[23:58] <TJ-> sheena1: On old hardware some ports might only be active on a USB v1.1 controller, rather than the USB2.0 controller
[23:58] <jonz> EriC^^: http://paste.ubuntu.com/10212182/
[23:58] <sheena1> cannot dvd, did try other usbs.
[23:58] <EriC^^> jonz: type udisksctl mount -b /dev/sda2
[23:59] <TJ-> sheena1: Have you tried a *smaller* capacity flash device? Is the USB device a complete storage device, or an adapter with an SD card in?