[12:14] <dilys> New Malone bug 1518 filed on Registry by Christian "kiko" Reis: Product series and branch are being mismatched in the interface
[12:14] <dilys> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/1518
[12:46] <dilys> Merge to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>Landing fix for bug 1514: Error messages in autogen'd forms are in the wrong place. Whack the add/edit forms and widget templates, and add some experimental CSS to style them. r=mpt (patch-2126<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[12:48] <kiko> woo woo
[12:48] <kiko> thanks mpt
[12:49] <mdke> does anyone know anything about rosetta? I just sent a mail to the list about a major problem: I can't see longer suggested translations in order to approve them. The longer paragraphs are simply blank
[12:55] <SteveA> hi matt
[12:56] <SteveA> half of the launchpad team are in brazil, working on plans for the next 3-6 months' development.
[12:56] <SteveA> however, daf and carlos are still working on rosetta this week and some of next week
[12:56] <SteveA> i expect they will see your email tomorrow
[12:56] <SteveA> they are both in europe
[12:56] <mdke> hi SteveA, thanks for the info :)
[12:56] <SteveA> so, it is night there now
[12:57] <mdke> sure
[12:57] <mdke> i'm in europe
[12:57] <mdke> i will bug them again tomorrow :-)
[12:57] <SteveA> geez, man, it's late
[12:57] <mdke> coming on midnight
[01:15] <dilys> Merge to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[trivial]  Renaming product-portlet-branches according to standard, and removing unused (and misnamed) portlet (patch-2127<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[02:33] <jblack> -=<{[_500_] }>=- syncs!!
[05:30] <dilys> New Malone bug 1520 filed on The Launchpad by Matt T Galvin: gpg CRC error in Validate your GPG Key email
[05:30] <dilys> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/1520
[08:10] <bob2> jblack: good stuff
[09:17] <dilys> New Malone bug 1521 filed on Malone by Daniel Robitaille: Trying to edit a bug generates a system error
[09:17] <dilys> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/1521
[09:56] <carlos> spiv, so finally, I broke your branch :-(
[09:56] <carlos> (morning)
[09:58] <spiv> carlos: I'm sure it's fairly easy to correct.
[09:58] <spiv> But I'll let lifeless diagnose, to be sure :)
[09:59] <carlos> I hope it....
[09:59] <carlos> btws
[09:59] <carlos> btw
[09:59] <carlos> spiv, I had problems with transactions with that branch
[09:59] <spiv> carlos: Is this part of the channel topic still relevant: "Rosetta is unwell, login before using!"
[09:59] <carlos> and had to revert some changes I did to get them running
[10:00] <carlos> thanks for pointing me to it. It's not  valid anymore, in fact it was not valid since friday as we had to change the permissions to Admin....
[10:00] <carlos> spiv, do you have some time for the transaction problems I had?
[10:01] <carlos> spiv, I had to remove some testing functionality to get it fixed
[10:03] <spiv> Yeah, sure.
[10:04] <carlos> spiv, ok, so stub asked us to connect to the database with the user that we use on production
[10:05] <carlos> so we can detect missing permissions
[10:05] <carlos> before moving into production
[10:05] <spiv> Sounds good.
[10:05] <carlos> I had to change the way that the db setup is done and I had lots of problems with transactions
[10:05] <carlos> spiv, your suggestion fixed librarian transactions
[10:05] <spiv> Using LaunchpadFunctionalTestSetup?
[10:05] <carlos> but I'm testing also email notifications
[10:06] <carlos> and that does not work
[10:06] <carlos> spiv, no, with zopeless
[10:06] <carlos> email notifications is transactional too
[10:06] <carlos> so we need transaction.commit()
[10:07] <carlos> Can I specify the dbuser with LaunchpadFunctionalTestSetup ?
[10:07] <carlos> spiv, if that's possible, that's all I need
[10:08] <carlos> I used the zopeless one because it's the one stub told me to use and I thought is the only one that we can use in that case
[10:08] <carlos> spiv, also, the functionality is used by a zopeless script so...
[10:08] <spiv> Ok, then the zopeless setup is what you should use :)
[10:08] <carlos> I think is better if the tests are executed like the script is
[10:09] <carlos> spiv, with that, I cannot get librarian and email working at the same time
[10:09] <spiv> Hmm.
[10:10] <daf> can you use ZoplessTestSetup and LibrarianFunctionalTestSetup?
[10:10] <daf> (together)
[10:11] <spiv> What's breaking with the email?
[10:11] <spiv> Is it that it needs the zcml setup?
[10:11] <carlos> spiv, the commit does not work so I don't get any email inside the "stub" queue to test
[10:12] <carlos> daf, I did it, and it works if you don't use transaction.commit() but the zopeless transaction object
[10:12] <carlos> daf, and if you don't want to test email notification
[10:13] <carlos> the problem is that the tests uses librarian and email notification
[10:13] <daf> why doesn't LaunchpadFunctionalTestSetup work?
[10:14] <carlos> daf, it works, but to test it correctly, it should be zopeless
[10:14] <carlos> daf, as that code will be executed as a zopeless script
[10:14] <daf> ah
[10:14] <daf> carlos: did you sort out those plural form requests?
[10:15] <daf> carlos: and the pending requests for Czech/Latvian teams?
[10:15] <carlos> daf,dude, I hadn't time
[10:15] <daf> ok
[10:15] <daf> just making sure they're not forgotten
[10:15] <carlos> I expended the whole day with the  fucked poimport fixes
[10:15] <carlos> I have they marked as pending to answer
[10:15] <daf> do we still have to do DB patches to change plural forms?
[10:15] <carlos> so I don't forget them
[10:16] <carlos> daf, yes
[10:16] <spiv> carlos: This is poimport.txt?
[10:16] <carlos> spiv, yes
[10:16] <spiv> It uses LaunchpadFunctionalTestSetup...
[10:16] <carlos> spiv, because I need those changes merged into rocketfuel
[10:17] <spiv> Ah, right.
[10:17] <carlos> spiv, I had to revert that part of the tests
[10:17] <spiv> carlos: You should have added an XXX comment there saying so :P </reviewer>
[10:17] <carlos> spiv, I move also the setup and teardown to the .py script instead of having it inside the .txt but I had to revert it too
[10:17] <daf> carlos: why's that?
[10:18] <carlos> daf, because I want that it worked as soon as possible, it took me a week since the review to get it merged!
[10:18] <carlos> just because tests problems
[10:18] <carlos> spiv, anyway I'm bugging you today to get that sorted out today O:-)
[10:20] <daf> ok
[10:20] <daf> well, the tests are not perfect, but they work
[10:20] <daf> file a bug about it and move on to work on things which are more important
[10:27] <carlos> daf, I'm doing that already, preparing the language pack for pitti
[10:29] <daf> cool
[10:29] <daf> you got your section filtering thing working?
[10:30] <spiv> carlos: Thanks for the description, I'll see if I can make it work.
[10:36] <carlos> daf, yes, two weeks ago, but I hadn't time to test it until gina run, I'm doing it atm
[10:37] <carlos> spiv, feel free to ask me anything you need. I will try to open a bug later today with all information I can think on so we don't forget it.
[10:37] <daf> carlos: do you have a test for that?
[10:38] <kolcvk> carlos did you add my acc as LV translator ?
[10:38] <carlos> kolcvk, no, sorry, I will process all requests today
[10:38] <kolcvk> ok
[10:38] <carlos> daf, I updated the tests, yes, but I think I need some extra sampledata to be sure it's working correctly
[10:39] <daf> carlos: ok -- I would add a new .txt file for it
[10:39] <carlos> will do before requesting a code review
[10:39] <carlos> daf, it's part of the language pack export
[10:39] <daf> and make it similar to the poexport-distrorelease-date.txt
[10:39] <carlos> why shouldn't add it to its already existent test?
[10:40] <carlos> I added it to lib/canonical/launchpad/doc/poexport-language-pack.txt
[10:40] <daf> well, I guess
[10:41] <daf> we have a bunch of poexport-* files already
[10:42] <carlos> daf, well, I don't think it's a bad thing ;-)
[10:42] <daf> but I suppose it makes sense to extend the existing test in this case
[10:42] <carlos> but having poexport-language-pack.txt and poexport-language-pack2.txt is unneeded :-)
[10:43] <daf> I think the style of poexport-distrorelease-date-tarball.txt is what you want
[10:44] <carlos> will take a look at it, don't worry
[10:44] <daf> (create two PO templates in different sections, do an unfiltered export, then do a filtered export, and check the right files get exported)
[10:44] <mdke> morning guys
[10:44] <daf> argh, lag
[10:44] <carlos> mdke, morning
[10:44] <mdke> hey carlos
[10:45] <mdke> bug #1071 is a major stopper for translating. apparently the workaround implemented on #1036 has not resolved it
[10:47] <daf> did the #1036 fix go live yet?
[10:48] <mdke> not sure, the last comment suggests it would have
[10:48] <daf> carlos knows for sure
[10:48] <mdke> yep :)
[10:48] <carlos> mdke, that's unrelated to 1036
[10:48] <carlos> it's just that we are missing a feature
[10:48] <mdke> carlos, its marked as a dup, dunno who marked it
[10:48] <carlos> to show those suggestions
[10:48] <mdke> ah
[10:49] <mdke> that's quite a big missing feature. will you unmark the bug as a dup of 1036?
[10:49] <carlos> not sure we can do it
[10:49] <carlos> bradb-afk, ?
[10:49] <daf> carlos: it's done
[10:49] <carlos> daf, how?
[10:50] <daf> go to the duplicate page and empty the text field
[10:50] <mdke> ok so the problem is basically that rosetta can't show suggestions for translations involving more than one line?
[10:50] <carlos> oh, that's what I call user friendly... :-P
[10:50] <daf> :)
[10:50] <carlos> mdke, right, but the suggestions is there
[10:50] <daf> carlos: file a bug ;)
[10:50] <carlos> will do :-)
[10:51] <mdke> malone is improving fast for usability
[10:51] <mdke> still not there tho
[10:51] <daf> carlos: we need a better way of approving suggestions than copy-and-paste :)
[10:51] <mdke> carlos, so is there any way I can see the suggestions?
[10:51] <daf> mdke: bradb will be glad you think so
[10:51] <mdke> daf, so can I file a bug on the copy-and-paste thing too?
[10:51] <daf> he's been busy usability testing
[10:52] <daf> mdke: yes, please do
[10:52] <daf> looks like it hasn't been reported already
[10:53] <carlos> daf, it's part of a spec (translationreviews) that should be implemented post 1.0 so *now* :-)
[10:53] <mdke> done
[10:53] <carlos> mdke, not yet, sorry
[10:53] <dilys> New Malone bug 1522 filed on Rosetta by Matthew East: No good way to approve suggested translations in rosetta
[10:53] <dilys> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/1522
[10:53] <carlos> mdke, they are stored but not showed
[10:54] <mdke> but we are really gonna be stopped by #1071
[10:54] <mdke> carlos, glad to hear it :D
[10:54] <carlos> https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/TranslationReview
[10:55] <carlos> mdke, feel free to send us an email with updates to that spec if you think the usability is not good enough with the descriptions we have there
[10:55] <mdke> carlos, as long as the feature comes, I'm sure it'll be fine, not too bothered about usability for that one
[10:55] <mdke> Burgundavia, yo
[10:55] <Burgundavia> there
[10:55] <carlos> ok
[10:55] <Burgundavia> stupid cached problem
[10:56] <carlos> daf, grr, asuka rejects my db connections
[10:56] <mdke> Burgundavia, you decache your brain by banging it against the wall?
[10:56] <mdke> fair enough
[10:59] <Burgundavia> no firefox and launchpad
[10:59] <Burgundavia> I viewed a bug not logged in
[10:59] <Burgundavia> and then I logged in
[11:00] <daf> carlos: hmmm :/
[11:02] <mdke> carlos, btw do you think there will be an ETA on the resolution of 1071? just in case you know, if not, no problem
[11:09] <carlos> mdke, it's a matter of schedule sometime to fix it
[11:10] <carlos> daf, meeting time?
[11:11] <mdke> carlos, is the schedule publicly available?
[11:11] <carlos> mdke, no, we need to do it
[11:11] <daf> mdke: we don't have a schedule yet
[11:12] <daf> mdke: right now we're focused on polishing up 1.0
[11:12] <carlos> I think we should be able to fix it this week
[11:12] <mdke> ah ok
[11:12] <daf> mdke: then we will be meeting in Brazil to plan feature additions for the next 3-6 months
[11:12] <carlos> but it will not be too user friendly as you will need to copy & paste
[11:12] <mdke> that's ok
[11:12] <carlos> daf, I need to delay the meeting 10 minutes
[11:12] <mdke> we just need to see the suggestions, otherwise we can't work
[11:12] <daf> carlos: I'm in the middle of something anyway
[11:13] <daf> carlos: maybe we can meet in 20 minutes or so
[11:13] <carlos> ok, but in about 45 minutes I will need to leave for one hour or so
[11:14] <daf> ok
[11:23] <carlos> wow, the X41 is sooo cute
[11:25] <mdke> oh that is the one with a swivelling screen?
[11:28] <carlos> mdke, no, it's not the tablet one
[11:28] <carlos> same model number, but normal laptop
[11:29] <mdke> ah
[11:29] <mdke> you got one?
[11:30] <dilys> New Malone bug 1525 filed on Malone by Corey Burger: Better default search url
[11:30] <dilys> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/1525
[11:30] <carlos> mdke, yep
[11:31] <mdke> cool...
[11:37] <daf> carlos: meeting?
[11:37] <carlos> daf, sure
[12:42] <daf> bah, no mpt
[01:27] <kiko> morning
[01:53] <dilys> Merge to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[trivial]  move LanguageNotFound from DB code to interface (patch-2128<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[02:05] <carlos> kiko, morning
[02:14] <carlos> kiko, is stub around?
[02:14] <carlos> kiko, I don't have access to asuka and thus I cannot prepare the language packs that Martin needs
[02:15] <kiko> carlos, he should be
[02:17] <carlos> kiko, ok
[02:21] <carlos> stub, hi
[02:22] <carlos> stub, I'm not able to connect to asuka
[02:22] <carlos> seems like the db port is closed
[02:22] <dilys> Merge to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[trivial]  Getting rid of a bogus export in interfaces/translationgroup.py, and removing some unused imports as we go (patch-2129<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[02:30] <cprov> salgado: ping
[02:31] <salgado> cprov, pong
[02:32] <cprov> salgado: are you up for reviews ? there is a quick unicode/pyme change in general section
[02:33] <Nafallo> cprov: yay! :-)
[02:34] <cprov> Nafallo: hey, your fix is coming
[02:34] <salgado> cprov, I don't think I'll have time for it today, but probably tomorrow
[02:34] <Nafallo> cprov: I saw :-)
[02:35] <Nafallo> cprov: isn't that worthy of PendingUpload? ;-)
[02:35] <cprov> salgado: ok, let's do in that way, tomorrow isn't a bad ETA
[02:35] <cprov> salgado: thanks
[02:35] <salgado> np. :)
[02:35] <cprov> Nafallo: yep
[02:37] <stub> carlos: Looks like asuka is down. I expect it will need Elmo to reboot it next time he is in the data centre.
[02:38] <stub> carlos: oh... no. I'm on.
[02:44] <mdke> is it a known issue that bug emails from malone don't get threaded?
[02:45] <Kinnison> Yes
[02:45] <mdke> okay
[02:45] <mdke> no need to file a bug?
[02:46] <carlos> stub, ok, it works now. Thank you
[02:47] <mdke> oh Kinnison i see the bug, was searching in Launchpad when I should have been searching in Malone
[02:47] <Kinnison> mdke: Heh, bug 181
[02:48] <carlos> lifeless, stub, so, could I count with the patch to cherrypick that I requested yesterday to be done today?
[02:48] <mdke> Kinnison, i was looking at #978 meself :)
[02:49] <Kinnison> Yeah, they're kinda the same bug but not quite :-)
[02:49] <mdke> 181 is better :D
[02:55] <Keybuk> kiko: so I'm arriving at 5:10am tomorrow; there'll be someone waiting for me, right? :)
[02:56] <BjornT> carlos: can you please resolve the conflict in your karma-branch, and make sure that all tests pass?
[02:57] <mdke> cool!
[02:58] <carlos> BjornT, conflicts? those are new...
[02:59] <carlos> BjornT, will do
[02:59] <carlos> thanks for the warning
[03:00] <bradb> morning
[03:00] <kiko> Keybuk, maybe :-P
[03:01] <kiko> bradb, can you try and get the fix for bug 1335 cherry-picked? it's the sixth dupe...
[03:01] <BjornT> carlos: the conflict was quite minor, the tests are more important to fix, though. (there should be some test failures since you're not constructing SQLObjectModifiedEvent with enough arguments)
[03:02] <Keybuk> kiko: heh, well, if I don't show up -- chances are I just slept at the airport
[03:02] <carlos> BjornT, hmm, my computer setup is broken with tests so it's normal if I missed something, I will try to fix it later today. Thanks
[03:03] <Keybuk> I'm not very good at sleeping on plane, and am likely to be not exactly human when I reach Sao Paulo
[03:03] <BjornT> carlos: ok, thanks
[03:04] <bradb> kiko: the fact that it's been reported so many times is a bad sign :/ at a first guess, it seems to indicate that Malone is not clearly communicating what distrorelease tasks are for.
[03:05] <jamesh> Keybuk: you'll have a 3 hour bus trip when you get here
[03:05] <Keybuk> jamesh: I'm aware
[03:05] <bradb> kiko: looking at now at what rf patch it was
[03:06] <jamesh> Keybuk: and the bus route doesn't terminate at sao carlos (so you need to remember to get off)
[03:06] <bradb> s/at now/now/
[03:07] <Keybuk> lol
[03:07] <Keybuk> I'm so doomed
[03:07] <Keybuk> someone book a taxi from wherever it does terminate ;)
[03:08] <bradb> stub: any chance of cherrypicking patch-2094?
[03:10] <stub> If you email lifeless and myself rather than yelling it into the ether where it will get lost, sure
[03:11] <bradb> :P /me emails into the ether
[03:25] <mgalvin> cprov, ping
[03:28] <cprov> mgalvin: pong
[03:29] <cprov> mgalvin: what's up with your encrypted message ?
[03:34] <mgalvin> cprov, i'm not really sure, it just gives me that error, i don't think it's gmail but it it might be
[03:34] <mgalvin> should i email you the message so you can see it?
[03:34] <dilys> Merge to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[trivial]  copy Domain header from PO template to PO file on export (fixes #5) (patch-2130<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[03:35] <cprov> mgalvin: ensure you're not pasting weird chars from gmail into the file
[03:35] <kiko> daf, /wow/, fixes #5 is gnarly
[03:35] <cprov> mgalvin: please do it
[03:35] <daf> kiko: that was in the merge summary :)
[03:36] <daf> kiko: now, if dilys closed the bug in malone, *that* would be gnarly ;)
[03:37] <dilys> New Malone bug 1526 filed on The Launchpad by Christian "kiko" Reis: Can't supply a tabindex for add/edit buttons in autogen'd forms
[03:37] <dilys> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/1526
[03:40] <mgalvin> cprov: hmm there where a bunch of ^M's in the file, i removed them, but still get the same error, i am emailing you the file now
[03:41] <cprov> mgalvin: dos2unix
[03:41] <mgalvin> i did it manually
[03:42] <mgalvin> the wierd thing is that elmo just sent me an gpg encrypted file yesterday and it worked fine (with gmail)
[03:43] <mgalvin> cprov: what is your email address?
[03:44] <cprov> mgalvin<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[03:59] <daf> kolcvk: around?
[04:20] <carlos> stub, lifeless, please, could you tell me if you will be able to do the production update I asked you today? we are waiting for it to get breezy imported into production so it's a bit urgent and the transaction problem with tests delayed it too much already....
[04:26] <stub> carlos: I'm going to kick off the merges now (yours and brads). I should be able to have production updated in the next hour.
[04:27] <carlos> stub, cool thanks
[04:31] <carlos> stub, about the migration script that you executed on staging last week, I'm going to add some sync() calls to reduce the amount of memory that it needs
[04:31] <carlos> stub, is there anything else I should fix before we test it again on staging?
[04:31] <carlos> we should run it on production as soon as possible to fix broken data
[04:32] <stub> carlos: I didn't have any problem with it apart from the memory usage which made it problematic to test.
[04:33] <carlos> ok, will add the .sync call, I suppose that should fix the memory problem, right?
[04:37] <SteveA> well
[04:37] <SteveA> if you del things too, that would help
[04:37] <SteveA> and maybe explicitly tell the gc to run, if you need that
[04:37] <mpt> textarea {
[04:37] <mpt>     font: 110% "Courier New", Courier, monospace;
[04:37] <mpt> W. T. F.
[04:37] <kiko> mpt, r=kiko
[04:37] <kiko> fix it
[04:38] <Kinnison> that'll make it use Courier on my machine :-(
[04:38] <Kinnison> please can we promote free fonts first
[04:38] <Kinnison> "Bitstream Vera Sans Mono", "Courier New", Courier, monospace
[04:39] <kiko> Kinnison, that's the /current/ situation
[04:39] <SteveA> what a mess fonts in css are
[04:39] <kiko> I'm r=kiko any change to that
[04:39] <mpt> Kinnison: "font-family: monospace"
[04:39] <SteveA> kiko: that's "rs" not "r"
[04:39] <Kinnison> mpt: that'd do nicely
[04:39] <kiko> I'm in the same room as him :-P
[04:40] <mpt> kiko, when's the best time for me to do laundry?
[04:40] <mpt> you said something about it being noisy
[04:40] <kiko> after 8pm is fine.
[04:40] <kiko> we can come back after dinner
[04:40] <mpt> If I'm awake enough for dinner tonight
[04:41] <mpt> I should be, since I slept until 6.30 this morning rather than 5.30
[04:43] <kiko> mpt, you should stop going to bed early.
[04:43] <kiko> you'll never fix your jet lag..
[04:44] <SteveA> guarana!
[04:45] <mpt> All guarana does is make me want to pee
[04:45] <Kinnison> I fixed my jetlag by forcing myself to stay up until midnight and then getting up on time
[04:48] <mpt> hmm
[04:50] <Kinnison> forgot to do ssh-add ?
[04:51] <mpt> No, I never do that either
[04:59] <mdke> keychain
[04:59] <mdke> ?
[05:01] <morgs> mpt: you never ssh-add, but never get asked for a password?
[05:02] <morgs> Have you moved your .ssh/ ?
[05:04] <stub> carlos: I can't apply your patch cleanly to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[05:05] <carlos> stub, what's failing?
[05:06] <stub> The cronscript and the sample data.
[05:07] <carlos> hmm, that should not be too dificult to fix...
[05:07] <carlos> stub, are you doing the usual production update?
[05:07] <stub> carlos: I'll wait until I can get your patch in there
[05:08] <stub> Lunch time in Brazil...
[05:08] <carlos> stub, same procedure we did last week?
[05:08] <mpt> morgs: I think it's because normally in the lifecycle of a terminal my first refuel always comes before my first launch, and refuel asks me for the password so launch doesn't have to
[05:09] <morgs> aah
[05:09] <carlos> branch from your production branch and apply my patch fixing the conflicts?
[05:11] <stub> carlos: Yes please. It might involve replaying other patches as required. I can merge that into production, which will also run the tests.
[05:13] <carlos> ok
[05:23] <stub> carlos: If we can't do it this way, let me know and I'll rollout<EMAIL_ADDRESS>as the next production release (ie. not cherry pick it)
[05:24] <carlos> ok
[05:26] <daf> salgado: is there a way of creating a new team without having me as the owner?
[05:28] <salgado> daf, no
[05:28] <daf> salgado: ok
[05:28] <daf> salgado: I've noticed an interesting thing
[05:28] <salgado> daf, unless you do it manually, of course. ;)
[05:28] <daf> you can have a team where you are the owner but are also a deactivated member
[05:28] <daf> which is a bit weird
[05:29] <salgado> daf, there's a reason for us to allow this
[05:30] <salgado> if your team doesn't have a contact address, all notifications sent to your team will be sent to all its members
[05:30] <daf> this is nothing to do with the contact address
[05:30] <daf> I think
[05:30] <daf> I just don't want to be listed as a member of the Maori translation team just because I created it
[05:30] <salgado> if you're the owner but you don't want to receive notifications, you can leave your team and you'll not receive notifications anymore
[05:31] <daf> ok, that makes sense
[05:31] <salgado> but even if you're a deactivated member you still have rights over your team (after all, it's yours)
[05:31] <dilys> Merge to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>Cherry pick patch-2094 (patch-8<EMAIL_ADDRESS><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[05:32] <daf> hmm :)
[05:32] <salgado> I have to agree with you that the UI is confusing
[05:32] <daf> I get a "Leave..." link even when I've left :)
[05:32] <salgado> really?
[05:33] <daf> yes
[05:33] <daf> I am deactivated
[05:33] <daf> maybe under "Your involvement", it should explicitly say "You are (not) a member of this team"
[05:34] <kolcvk> daf what you wanted ?
[05:34] <daf> kolcvk: I need to know your login information to create the Latvian team
[05:35] <kolcvk> login : kolcvk
[05:35] <kolcvk> oops
[05:35] <kolcvk> login<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[05:35] <kolcvk> :))
[05:35] <salgado> daf, that's a bug. I just found what's wrong and will fix it. it's trivial
[05:36] <daf> cool
[05:36] <daf> can I search for people by email address?
[05:36] <salgado> daf, not yet. I started working on this two days ago
[05:37] <daf> ok
[05:37] <salgado> but I don't think it'll get merged soon. :-(
[05:39] <daf> no worries
[05:47] <jamesh> carlos: I'm going through your rosetta-karma branch
[05:47] <carlos> jamesh, BjornT told me that I have some problems there
[05:47] <jamesh> carlos: did you test the code?  Don't you need 3 args to SQLObjectModifiedEvent?
[05:47] <jamesh> yeah
[05:48] <carlos> jamesh, I have problems with tests in my computer so I missed that from the other errors that are not real
[05:49] <jamesh> I was more wondering if you just tried to run those code paths locally
[05:49] <jamesh> not necessarily the whole test suite
[05:50] <carlos> jamesh, I did some testing yes, and the ones I ran worked
[05:51] <carlos> at least I saw my karma action list grow
[05:51] <carlos> to be sure that it worked
[05:51] <jamesh> that's weird then.
[05:51] <jamesh> because the constructor for SQLObjectModifiedEvent definitely takes only 3 or 4 arguments
[05:51] <jamesh> not one argument.
[05:54] <carlos> jamesh, I copied that code from Malone
[05:55] <carlos> well, I think it was not directly malone but the edit/add forms
[05:56] <carlos> let me look
[05:56] <carlos> right
[05:57] <carlos> jamesh, BjornT: lib/canonical/launchpad/browser/addview.py
[05:57] <jamesh> carlos: the editview/addview use ObjectModifiedEvent
[05:57] <carlos> line 64
[05:57] <jamesh> carlos: that's SQLObjectCreatedEvent
[05:57] <jamesh> which doesn't keep track of a previous state, because there isn't one
[05:57] <carlos> hmm
[05:58] <carlos> ok, then I see the problem, I think the actions I tried implied Create more than Add
[05:58] <kolcvk> gstreamer will be fully translated in 4h
[05:58] <kolcvk> :)
[05:58] <carlos> kolcvk, ;-)
[05:58] <kolcvk> thanks for membership
[05:58] <kolcvk> :)
[05:59] <kolcvk> :)))
[05:59] <jamesh> carlos: well, your karma event listeners are making use of the SQLObjectModifedEvent attributes
[05:59] <kolcvk> i will be soon
[06:00] <carlos> jamesh, I use both
[06:00] <carlos> it depends on the action
[06:00] <jamesh> yes
[06:01] <carlos> I hope tonight I will have a computer with hoary ready to use for launchpad so my test problem will disappear
[06:08] <carlos> Kinnison, could you confirm me that gina was executed on production?
[06:09] <carlos> staging server has SourcePackagePublishing table empty
[06:09] <Kinnison> carlos: stub said he was going to do that once he got to brazil
[06:09] <Kinnison> carlos: so I assumed it would happen this week
[06:10] <carlos> ok
[06:10] <carlos> that means no language packs....
[06:10] <carlos> I thought my code was broken as I got 0 pofiles exported...
[06:10] <bradb> salgado: Might you have a chance to look at my one-bugmail-per-recipient branch today?
[06:10] <stub> The gina updates branch is just getting its review finished. We can run her on production after that.
[06:11] <Kinnison> stub: cool, thanks
[06:12] <carlos> stub, cool, thanks
[06:13] <carlos> Kinnison, ;-)
[06:14] <Kinnison> carlos: dogfood has a whole bunch of data if you're testing scripts
[06:14] <Kinnison> carlos: You could write something to xfer rosetta data from staging to dogfood if you wanted :-)
[06:14] <bradb> SteveA: ping
[06:15] <carlos> Kinnison, I can wait until tomorrow, I think it will be faster. but thanks for the suggestion
[06:17] <salgado> bradb, yes, I'll have to find some time to look at it today
[06:18] <SteveA> hello brad
[06:18] <SteveA> i'm about to go get lunch
[06:19] <bradb> SteveA: quick q
[06:19] <Kinnison> carlos: it'd be good to have a bunch of rosetta content in dogfood (I don't know how much is there already)
[06:19] <bradb> SteveA: in a "smarter traverser" for /distros/ubuntu/+bugs, what is the object this smart traverser is supposed to return?
[06:19] <daf> Kinnison: dogfood was used for testing importing everything in Hoary
[06:20] <bradb> SteveA: I'm trying to figure out how that can be something other than a BugTaskSubset, or the results of a BugSet.search
[06:20] <carlos> Kinnison, what daf said
[06:21] <bradb> salgado-lunch: Cool, that'd be great if you can.
[06:21] <carlos> Kinnison, why don't get a production mirror there from time to time?
[06:21] <bradb> SteveA: (I meant to say BugTaskSet.search, not BugSet.search, btw.)
[06:24] <bradb> I guess the lunchbell ringeth
[06:24] <Kinnison> carlos: I guess we could do that at some point soon
[06:24] <Kinnison> carlos: once I finally get the breezy tracker going though, I'll need to maintain data integrity
[06:31] <carlos> Kinnison, I thought you are using it only for testing
[06:34] <Kinnison> naah, once I start tracking, I'll need the data until breezy releases
[06:34] <lifeless> bradb-lunch: indeed, food is here
[06:39] <daf> salgado-lunch: is there a way to delete a team?
[06:45] <carlos> Kinnison, oh, ok
[07:05] <salgado-lunch> daf, no
[07:07] <SteveA> bradb-lunch: i'm in a meeting now.  i'll be able to talk with you about this a bit later.
[07:11] <kiko> jamesh, why do your review mails appear misindented to me?
[07:11] <kiko> I realized that I complained incorrectly
[07:12] <jamesh> misindented?
[07:12] <kiko> I'll show you after the mgmt meeting
[07:17] <jamesh> kiko: I have no idea what thunderbird did to the indentation there
[07:18] <kiko> I use mutt, so I guess you're saying you use tb?
[07:20] <jamesh> yeah
[07:20] <jamesh> I can see it in the copy of the message I got back on the list
[07:21] <sabdfl> carlos: what's up with the breezy import?
[07:22] <dilys> Merge to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[r=stub]  make sure simple_sendmail encodes the To and From headers properly if the names contain non-ascii characters. (patch-2131<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[07:22] <carlos> sabdfl, pending of a production update to get a patch merged, I'm trying to solve conflicts with the production branch so stub can cherrypick it
[07:22] <Nafallo> yay!
[07:22] <Nafallo> thanx BjornT :-)
[07:27] <mpt> lifeless: /home/pqm/arch/queue/patch.1121874519
[07:29] <lifeless> failed cscvs  - resubmit
[07:31] <carlos> stub, hi, around?
[07:31] <stub> carlos: yes
[07:31] <carlos> stub, ok, so I solved the conflicts without merging any other patch
[07:32] <carlos> stub, I did a baz replay of my patch
[07:32] <carlos> stub, is that enough?
[07:32] <carlos> I'm ready to commit it
[07:32] <stub> carlos: That is fine if you have resolved the conflicts.
[07:32] <stub> Commit and give me the branch
[07:33] <bradb> SteveA: Sure, whenever you're ready
[07:33] <carlos> ok
[07:34] <carlos> g
[07:35] <stub> carlos: The test suite will be run when I ask for the merge.
[07:35] <carlos> ok
[07:38] <bradb> stub: My cherry-picked patch hasn't actually been rolled out yet, right?
[07:38] <carlos> bradb, blame my patch
[07:38] <carlos> bradb, stub got conflicts
[07:38] <bradb> That's what I thought :P
[07:39] <bradb> That's ok, I just wanted to confirm that the fact that the bug was still showing in prod was because the patch hadn't been rolled out yet.
[07:40] <carlos> I hope it will be ready to merge in less than 5 minutes
[07:46] <carlos> stub<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[07:46] <carlos> stub, but it's mirroring now and the cacherev will take a while....
[07:46] <stub> carlos: Ta
[07:47] <SteveA> Kinnison: ping
[07:47] <dilys> New Malone bug 1530 filed on Malone by Brad Bollenbach: DistroRelease tasks are misleadingly presented in Malone
[07:47] <dilys> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/1530
[07:47] <Kinnison> SteveA: Yo, I'm just doing a dogfood update then I'll be wandering off. What can I do for you in the meantime?
[07:48] <SteveA> ah
[07:48] <SteveA> so, you are doing a dogfood update
[07:48] <SteveA> when will it be complete?
[07:48] <Kinnison> I'd guess in the next 5 mins
[07:49] <jblack> stevea: I pulled in your suggestions for smli. I'm having a bit of a problem with it though.
[07:49] <SteveA> jblack: okay.  we can talk about it after this meeting i'm in
[07:49] <jblack> ok
[07:53] <bradb> mpt: Have you had a chance yet to do some prototyping of the Google-style bug listing format?
[07:54] <Kinnison> SteveA: it should be back now
[07:54] <kiko> bradb, we have some montreal mockups on that
[07:55] <Kinnison> SteveA: was there anything else?
[07:55] <SteveA> Kinnison: that's it.  thanks!
[07:56] <bradb> kiko: yep, i already implemented them too
[07:56] <kiko> cool
[07:56] <bradb> kiko: i'm more specifically looking for the Plone-style HTML/CSS magic
[07:56] <bradb> kiko: you remember? that's what i got yelled at for in Cape Town. ;)
[07:56] <kiko> the search results pages?
[07:57] <bradb> yeah. at that time i was provided with a bugzilla style html snippet. this time i'm looking for a Plone-style html/css snippet.
[07:59] <carlos> stub, pqm has now in its queue the change I just did to reduce the memory usage with the migration data script
[07:59] <dilys> Merge to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>cleanup and portlet love [r=stevea]  (patch-2132<EMAIL_ADDRESS><EMAIL_ADDRESS><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[08:00] <bradb> s/Sub/Subset/
[08:02] <jamesh> kiko: w.r.t. indentation, the indentation looks fine here: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/launchpad-reviews/2005-July/001347.html
[08:02] <kiko> go figure
[08:02] <jamesh> kiko: the main difference I can see between what thunderbird does and other mailers is that it uses ">" to indent rather than "> "
[08:05] <sabdfl> cheers Kinnison, looking fwd to having you here next week
[08:05] <mpt> bradb: not yet
[08:06] <mpt> jamesh: Only at levels >1, I think (which is a requirement of the format=flowed RFC)
[08:06] <bradb> mpt: ok
[08:06] <mpt> (though I'm not defending Thunderbird's implementation of format=flowed, it's hideously broken)
[08:07] <bradb> mpt: Do you have any ideas off the topic of your head for a UI for making it quick to take a bug?
[08:07] <bradb> top, even
[08:07] <bradb> (likewise for making it quick to Cc yourself on a bug)
[08:08] <mpt> bradb: For the former, have an "Accept" button
[08:08] <mpt> instead of having the "Accept" option in the status menu
[08:08] <Kinnison> sabdfl: I'm looking forward to being back in SC
[08:08] <kiko> mpt, seconded
[08:08] <mpt> bradb: That would have the additional benefit that you couldn't pretend that someone else was accepting the bug when really they hadn't
[08:08] <Kinnison> ciao
[08:09] <bradb> mpt: will the user understand that "Accept" means "Assign this bug to me"?
[08:09] <mpt> bradb: Ok, call it "Assign to Me" :-)
[08:09] <bradb> where does the button belong?
[08:10] <bradb> i wanna nail a couple of these too-many-click-things today, if I can, while waiting for the menu dust to settle
[08:10] <mpt> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/1346
[08:13] <mpt> haha
[08:14] <bradb> :) :/ :(
[08:14] <bradb> i like that idea, but hm, patented one-click technology is shiny too
[08:15] <jamesh> mpt: it looks like you're right.  So thunderbird is not generating format=flowed text right :(
[08:15] <bradb> mpt: would a button be better than a radio button, for that one-click goodness?
[08:15] <bradb> saying either "Assign to Me" or "Reassign to me"
[08:15] <bradb> s/Me/me/
[08:15] <bradb> or s/me/Me/, depending
[08:17] <mpt> Me
[08:17] <mpt> because it's not a preposition
[08:17] <mpt> or an article
[08:17] <bradb> right, so button or radio button?
[08:17] <mpt> radio button, on the grounds that you should be able to do other stuff at the same time :-)
[08:18] <bradb> fair enough
[08:20] <bradb> mpt: same principle for the Cc stuff?
[08:21] <bradb> er, a button could be useful in that case, perhaps
[08:21] <mpt> A "Subscribe me" checkbox at the bottom of the list of the subscribers
[08:21] <mpt> At least, that would work if we didn't have such a thing as watch subscriptions
[08:22] <bradb> if i deleted watch, noone would notice :)
[08:22] <mpt> If you think you can, that'd be great
[08:22] <bradb> except for the people who accidentally used it
[08:23] <bradb> I thought it would specifically say "Cc me on this bug", or something
[08:23] <mpt> otherwise it would have to be a "My subscription:" option menu
[08:23] <mpt> None / Watch / E-mail
[08:23] <mpt> (again, at the bottom of the subscription portlet)
[08:24] <bradb> right...E-mail, interesting...
[08:26] <bradb> stub: I wanted to allow BugTask.priority to be null in the db. Is this something I should branch/write one line of SQL/submit for review/etc. or can you be bribed into doing this?
[08:28] <bradb> mpt: If it's a checkbox, I'm picturing myself pulling my hair out trying to find the button to click to actuate.
[08:28] <bradb> mpt: What happens?
[08:28] <mpt> bradb: Welcome to Malone
[08:29] <mpt> bradb: A "Save Changes" button at the bottom of the page
[08:30] <bradb> mpt: Will a user know that there's a "Save Changes" button awaiting them all the way down near the beginning of the bug discussion?
[08:31] <dilys> Merge to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[trivial]  Remove some evil code that was depending on SelectResults.__contains__() working for set operations. (patch-2133<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[08:31] <stub> bradb: I can do it, but it sounds like a change that needs to run past the sab
[08:31] <mpt> bradb: No, but I'm not going to say there should be buttons all over the page
[08:31] <mpt> because that just takes us further and further away from "let me do more than one thing at once"
[08:32] <bradb> mpt: What if, for now, the add subscriber page defaulted to Cc and your email address, if you weren't already subscribed to the bug?
[08:33] <bradb> (otherwise Cc and empty email address field)
[08:33] <mpt> bradb: Sure, that'd be an improvement on what we have currently, though still annoying compared with subscribing on the bug page itself
[08:33] <bradb> right, I can see the value in subtly moving towards not having to use 8 different pages to edit a bug
[08:34] <bradb> does this mean moving the comment box to the bottom of the page too? and ordering the comments first -> most recent?
[08:34] <mpt> It doesn't "mean" that, but a Save Changes button at the bottom of the page would make a lot more sense if that was the case, yes
[08:35] <bradb> indeed
[08:35] <bradb> stub: True, I'll ping you again on that once confirmed. kiko, do you know if sabdfl confirmed that it's ok for BugTask.priority to be null?
[08:36] <kiko> I can ask him
[08:36] <bradb> cool
[08:37] <bradb> mpt: right, so thanks for the ideas. I'm putting them in motion right now, starting with the assignee bit.
[08:37] <mpt> thanks
[08:37] <carlos> stub, the mirror finished
[08:40] <bradb> heh
[08:40] <mpt> but remember that the front page you see is not the same as the front page production sees
[08:42] <bradb> right
[08:43] <SteveA> stub: your head is leaking
[08:43] <stub> :-P
[08:43] <bradb> SteveA: should the meeting time be in the topic, btw?
[08:43] <bradb> Launchpad Developers Meeting: $time, etc.
[08:51] <mgalvin> cprov, that worked (just copy&pasting to a file), it seems wierd that the raw email from gmail doesn't work, anyway sorry for the noise, thanks for the help
[08:52] <cprov> mgalvin: no worries, email is encoded as quote printable, you can use the raw content directly in most of case, except plain ascii
[08:53] <cprov> mgalvin: s\can\can't
[08:54] <mgalvin> ok, really the wierdness i speak of is that elmo sent me my svn commit access email yesterday and that one worked with the raw email
[08:55] <mgalvin> oh well, at least it works ;)
[08:56] <carlos> see you
[08:56] <kiko> bradb, mark's okay with making priority nullable.
[08:58] <stub> bradb: do you have code changes to make use of the NULLable priority?
[09:00] <dilys> Merge to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>Cherry pick patch-2125 (patch-9<EMAIL_ADDRESS><EMAIL_ADDRESS><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[09:05] <bradb> kiko: cool
[09:05] <bradb> stub: yes
[09:07] <cprov> bradb: am I wrong or we don't have links in the row into malone/assigned, it's on_click js ? It means i can't open as new window or tab in firefox
[09:08] <cprov> bradb: wouldn't be nice to have at least the "bug # xx" as a link ?
[09:09] <bradb> cprov: right, it should probably be changed to be consistent with the distro/distrorelease/upstream bug listings
[09:09] <bradb> I'll file a bug report for that, if there isn't one already open. Thanks.
[09:10] <cprov> bradb: great ! thank you
[09:11] <bradb> no prob
[09:14] <dilys> New Malone bug 1532 filed on Malone by Brad Bollenbach: /malone/assigned should use underlined, non-row-highlighting, non-js links
[09:14] <dilys> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/1532
[09:16] <kiko> bradb, that page should just use the search widget you're going to provide us
[09:16] <bradb> stub: Should I just make funny noises when I'm ready for you to make that change in the DB, so that we can co-ordinate it to actually land without all the tests failing, or is there an even quicker way the db change can be made to happen at the same time that I merge to rf?
[09:17] <bradb> kiko: Agreed.
[09:28] <SteveA> bradb: i have a space to talk subsets
[09:28] <bradb> SteveA: ok, so, here's my question:
[09:29] <bradb> take the URL path /distros/ubuntu/+bugs
[09:29] <bradb> AIUI, +bugs is what actuates the smart traverser bit
[09:29] <bradb> the "smart traverser" is this black box that will consume the rest of the URL, and return the right thing, which will then be rendered in the browser, right?
[09:30] <SteveA> well
[09:30] <dilys> Merge to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[trivial]  Reduced the amount of memory needed to run the script (patch-2134<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[09:30] <SteveA> it will consume the very next path step
[09:30] <SteveA> if there are further path steps
[09:31] <SteveA> then those will be traversed in the normal manner
[09:31] <SteveA> we're "consuming" an extra path step
[09:31] <SteveA> so, the traverser will consume two path steps rather then the usual one
[09:31] <bradb> right, and the traverser returns an object which the publisher publishes, right?
[09:32] <bradb> (higher-level question leading up to What I Really Want to Know)
[09:32] <SteveA> well
[09:32] <SteveA> the traverser returns the next object
[09:33] <SteveA> if there are path steps left to traverse
[09:33] <SteveA> then we'll need to do whatever is necessary to traverse those too
[09:33] <bradb> right, makes sense
[09:33] <SteveA> the last object traversed to gets published
[09:33] <bradb> so, in the URL path example above, what kind of object will the final traverser return?
[09:34] <SteveA> the example /distros/ubuntu/+bugs
[09:34] <SteveA> ?
[09:35] <bradb> yes
[09:35] <SteveA> what do you want to show the user if they put distros/ubuntu/+bugs in the browser?
[09:36] <mpt> Bugs that have Ubuntu tasks
[09:36] <SteveA> so, a page template
[09:36] <SteveA> it can be a view on the Ubuntu distro
[09:37] <SteveA> so, you get the view (using the code i pasted to you yesterday)
[09:37] <SteveA> and return it
[09:37] <SteveA> when there is no further path step after +bugs
[09:38] <bradb> SteveA: i.e. I don't register a +bugs view on IDistribution in ZCML, right?
[09:39] <SteveA> right now, you should register a '+bugs-only' page on IDistribution
[09:39] <SteveA> when my nav stuff lands, i'll change it to a simple +bugs view
[09:40] <SteveA> in your traversal function, you look up the '+bugs-only' view when you have just '+bugs'
[09:40] <SteveA> this is a bit of a hack, but will be easy to refactor to use navigation stuff.
[09:41] <stub> bradb: Make your change as patch-25-05-0.sql - I'll pre-approve it.
[09:41] <SteveA> bradb: does this make sense?
[09:41] <bradb> so, your nav start will be smart enough so that, if a +foo view is registered in IBar then /bars/fnorb/+foo will render that ZCML-registered view, but /bars/fnorb/+foo/something could have in a different way?
[09:42] <SteveA> yes
[09:42] <SteveA> exactly
[09:43] <bradb> SteveA: with your nav stuff, what do i have to do to script the behaviour of the "something" traversal in /bars/fnorb/+foo/something, in this configuration?
[09:44] <SteveA> i don't want to discuss that right now.  i want to discuss how to get you doing this now, before the nav stuff lands.
[09:44] <bradb> SteveA: ok. i take it this is a more important priority than UI usability improvements?
[09:45] <SteveA> well...
[09:45] <SteveA> 1. this will be a quick refactor
[09:45] <SteveA> 2. if you do it now, then the sab won't get annoyed by it, and start to do it himself
[09:45] <SteveA> 3. the simplified code left behind will leave you more time for UI improvements in the future
[09:46] <SteveA> bradb: okay?
[09:48] <bradb> sure
[09:48] <SteveA> okay.  cool.
[09:48] <SteveA> so, you ought to be able to remove BugTaskSubset
[09:48] <SteveA> there is a remaining question
[09:48] <SteveA> should +bugs appear in the breadcrumbs?
[09:48] <SteveA> mpt: ?
[09:49] <mpt> No, because it's a facet
[09:49] <SteveA> okay
[09:49] <mpt> The hierarchy shows things up to the facets
[09:49] <kiko> correct.
[09:49] <SteveA> so, when i'm on a distro page
[09:49] <SteveA> i get the "Bugs" facet
[09:49] <kiko> I've got a bof on that on BrazilTopics
[09:49] <SteveA> which takes me to that page
[09:49] <mpt> yup
[09:49] <SteveA> that's fine then
[09:50] <mpt> kiko: Why? Does the spec need more examples?
[09:50] <mpt> It must be close to being the most example-laden spec in LP history
[09:50] <SteveA> sab's going to land a hack that gets rid of certain particular "facet" things from breadcrumbs
[09:50] <SteveA> and then my nav stuff will improve on the hack, and vastly improve traversal and breadcrumbs
[09:51] <bradb> SteveA: By the way, any news on page titles love? Is this something that's going to take to long to fix while you're in .br?
[09:52] <SteveA> i'll try to get to it in some slack time
[09:52] <bradb> If it's a cheap fix, it'd be a wonderful ROI to whip through and be able to fix a bunch of Malone page titles
[09:52] <bradb> SteveA: ok, thanks
[09:53] <kiko> stub, could we not reuse the web cookie mechanism for baz-server/trebuchet?
[09:53] <SteveA> web cookie
[09:53] <SteveA> in xmlrpc
[09:53] <SteveA> how about not
[09:53] <kiko> just the underlying mechanism.
[09:53] <SteveA> no
[09:54] <SteveA> what problem are you trying to solve?
[09:54] <kiko> persisting authentication state when accessing an xmlrpc server.
[09:54] <SteveA> showing up?
[09:55] <mpt> in Gaim
[09:55] <SteveA> kiko: why do you want to do that?
[09:56] <SteveA> kiko: we have a choice of how to do this, but we will want to use a different mechanism to the web logins
[09:56] <kiko> SteveA, BazLaunchpadClient.
[09:56] <kiko> two codepaths?
[09:57] <SteveA> kiko: two different situations
[09:57] <SteveA> talk to me in person
[09:57] <SteveA> after the break
[09:58] <salgado> SteveA, what's a good time for us to work on getting rid of the *Subsets I have in basicvoting?
[09:58] <SteveA> next session, probably
[09:59] <salgado> great
[09:59] <SteveA> also, i think mark merged the first part of basic voting
[09:59] <SteveA> he and i talked about it, just wanted to get his branch actually merged so he can get on with the specs
[09:59] <dilys> Merge to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[trivial]  make task edit pages usable in KHTML/WebCore (bug 987) (patch-2135<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[09:59] <SteveA> seeing as you'll be merging this afternoon, i said "okay"
[11:08] <stub> carlos, bradb: Production has been updated
[11:12] <bradb> stub: Looks good, thanks.
[11:13] <bradb> kiko: ^^ canonical URL patch cherrypicked
[11:30] <dilys> Merge to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[trivial]  fix distro-actions portlet diff3 marker (patch-2136: mark.shuttleworth@canonical.com)


[15:23] <mup> PR operator#829 opened: Secrets <Created by rwcarlsen> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/829>
[17:13] <mup> PR operator#822 closed: downgrade breaking-change exception to just a warning <Created by rwcarlsen> <Merged by rwcarlsen> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/822>


[17:26] <SuperEngineer> never seen one before
[17:26] <jacobw> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macroglossum_stellatarum
[17:26]  * SuperEngineer opens that link
[17:27]  * SuperEngineer loves the name Macroglossum stellatarum - that summed it up straight away!
[17:32] <SuperEngineer> jacobw: nope- wasn't that one, no audible humming noise, no orange flashes on wings
[17:33] <SuperEngineer> following links - it appears it was however, some sort of Sphinx moth
[17:34]  * SuperEngineer has been bleesed by a sphinx?  ;)
[17:34] <SuperEngineer> *blessed
[17:36] <jacobw> ooh that's pretty
[17:36] <Azelphur> *facedesk* lodger just showed me a newspaper clipping telling everyone that the ipad 2 is better than the nexus 7
[17:36] <Azelphur> this is why I never read newspapers, yay for uneducated crap
[17:38] <SuperEngineer> Azelphur: suggestion - teach yourself [& more so the *facedesk* lodger?] self censorship!!!
[17:38] <Azelphur> haha
[17:38] <Azelphur> self censorship?
[17:38] <MartijnVdS> http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/The_Lodger_(TV_story) ?
[17:38] <dogmatic69> Azelphur: haters gonna hate :P
[17:38] <SuperEngineer> let their brain know as well the difference between reading truth & rumour
[17:39] <Azelphur> SuperEngineer: yea, I just pulled up side by side specs on gsmarena and said look, if this newspaper had done any research at all it'd be obvious
[17:39] <MartijnVdS> If you already have an ipad/phone and have bought apps, ipad might be a better choice
[17:40] <MartijnVdS> if you already have android stuff, go for the nexus
[17:40] <SuperEngineer> *self censorship  - the art of ignoring all the c**p - sorry, rubbish, that's out there
[17:40] <MartijnVdS> If you have neither.. go by the specs/your anticipated future needs
[17:40] <MartijnVdS> how hard can it be
[17:40] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: nah they are talking about buying one straight, and the ipad 2 being £330, and the nexus 7 being £200 (It's actually £170)
[17:41] <Azelphur> and even if you do have a stockpile of apps, it's still economically unsensible to buy an ipad 2 over a nexus 7
[17:41] <jacobw> if it's a newspaper it must be true
[17:41] <Azelphur> I doubt many people have £160 worth of apps haha
[17:41] <Azelphur> jacobw: yea, that's what people think :(
[17:41] <SuperEngineer> jacobw: lol
[17:41] <MartijnVdS> jacobw: but if it's on the internet is MUST also be true
[17:41] <MartijnVdS> how can it be true and false at the same time?!
[17:41] <Azelphur> indeed :P
[17:41] <jacobw> MartijnVdS: the world's gone mad
[17:42] <dogmatic69> Azelphur: also, why compare the iPad2 that is a year older?
[17:42] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: double lol
[17:42] <dogmatic69> like comparing a i7 with a 486
[17:42] <Azelphur> dogmatic69: I have no idea, but that's what htey did
[17:42] <jacobw> i hate that phrase so much
[17:43] <Azelphur> the funny part is even the ipad 3 vs the nexus 7, the nexus 7 still beats the ipad 3 in a lot of important areas while being less than half the price
[17:43] <SuperEngineer> anyone else tried "Zorin OS"... damned if it'll run [for me] in a vm!  giving up methinks
[17:44] <SuperEngineer> if I was really that bothered btw - I'd check the md5
[17:44] <dogmatic69> Azelphur: the iPad3 kicks ass in pretty much every category http://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone1=4620&idPhone2=4850
[17:44] <ali1234> isn't zorin the bad guy from that james bond movie?
[17:44] <Azelphur> dogmatic69: really? dual core 1ghz > quad core 1.3?
[17:44] <ali1234> didn't he have a space laser or something?
[17:44] <Azelphur> powervr > geforce?
[17:45] <Azelphur> same ram = kicking ass? :p
[17:45] <ali1234> moonraker?
[17:45] <penguin42> Azelphur: nice display
[17:45] <SuperEngineer> ali1234: zorin might the the jb bad guy - but curently he's the bad guy on my iso storage partition ;)
[17:45] <Azelphur> penguin42: yep, the ipad 3 has some cool stuff that the nexus 7 doesn't, but it's the same vice versa
[17:46] <Azelphur> and when you consider how much the nexus 7 has over the ipad 3 while still being half the price, it's pretty impressive imo
[17:46] <dogmatic69> Azelphur: *if* android apps can manage using the cores, no.
[17:46] <penguin42> Azelphur: Could be argued 4 cpus and so little ram could be a waste
[17:46] <ali1234> oh right yeah, it's the one where christopher walken wants to sink california with an earthquake machine
[17:46] <Azelphur> penguin42: *shrug* it works great for me, lots of gaming etc :p
[17:46] <Azelphur> been playing GTA 3 on it hehe
[17:47] <SuperEngineer> I'm very tempted at this point to suggest somebody starts up a "download a kindle" website ;)
[17:47] <Azelphur> and tether it to my phone so I get internet everywhere without the extra bill
[17:47] <Azelphur> SuperEngineer: seen download more ram? :P
[17:47] <SuperEngineer> Azelphur: ;)
[17:47] <Azelphur> http://www.downloadmoreram.com/ most useful website ever, highly recommended
[17:48] <dogmatic69> the ipad has a better / bigger screen
[17:49] <Azelphur> dogmatic69: ipad 3 yes, ipad 2 no
[17:49] <penguin42> Azelphur: And doesn't it just have one camera on the nexus ?
[17:49] <dogmatic69> yep
[17:49] <dogmatic69> 1.2mp
[17:49] <Azelphur> penguin42: yes, in the article they are comparing the ipad 2 to the nexus 7 though :)
[17:49]  * AlanBell is on a cable car
[17:50] <dogmatic69> ipad2 == dinosaur tech
[17:50] <Azelphur> yep lol
[17:50] <SuperEngineer> Azelphur:  just done downloading a [failed] zorin iso to sneak a peek, that's enough for my patience for one day
[17:50] <MartijnVdS> IT IS HOT
[17:50] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: MAKE IT COOLER
[17:50] <penguin42> AlanBell: Hmm, that might be an irc first - where?
[17:50] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: stop calling me hot!
[17:50] <dogmatic69> so compare ipad3, that is still older than the nexus (and better)
[17:50] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: you're IT?
[17:50] <SuperEngineer> you naughty person you
[17:51] <Myrtti> oh look, it's professor Slughorn from Hogwarts discussing with Indiana Jones on BBC
[17:51] <jacobw> 31.9C here
[17:51] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: I am IT, I am Hot, I am SuperEngineer
[17:51] <SuperEngineer> ;)
[17:52] <jacobw> Super Hot IT?
[17:52] <jacobw> that's not a good acronym :p
[17:52] <MartijnVdS> what does that abbreviate to
[17:52] <SuperEngineer> jacobw: sorry mate... suffolh beat you
[17:52] <SuperEngineer> *suffolk
[17:53] <jacobw> 32.6 C at 12:54
[17:53]  * jacobw edges suffolk
[17:53] <SuperEngineer> jacobw: hmm -worryingly - I use Hotot for my twitter client - nearly all the initials there in one!
[17:53] <jacobw> (bavaria)
[17:54] <jacobw> :)
[17:54] <SuperEngineer> jacobw: that's a big youch - last time /me was near [but above] those temps - I was in Gambia!
[17:55] <jacobw> hehe
[17:55] <SuperEngineer> loved the heat so much I went back for a 2nd visit 2months later
[17:56] <penguin42> hmm, that reminds me, I hadn't installed yawp
[17:56] <SuperEngineer> ..but then I came back to UK .... brrrrrr
[17:56] <ali1234> we had a power cut last night so when i woke up this morning first thing i wonder is "why is it so quiet?", and next thing was "why is it so cold?"
[17:56] <SuperEngineer> oh the joys of one's travels
[17:57]  * SuperEngineer sends ali1234 a virtual household ups
[17:58] <SuperEngineer> [hope you enjoy the virtual voltage]
[17:58] <penguin42> hmm, yawp says it's 18c - but it feels nicer
[18:07] <SuperEngineer> Zorin - your last chance - I'm wasting DVD on you to see if you'll boot live - if you don't - get your darn download sorted - uupc plug or not.
[18:07] <AlanBell> I am on a boat
[18:08]  * SuperEngineer is jealous of AlanBell
[18:08] <christel> looooooooveboaaaat
[18:08] <SuperEngineer> AlanBell: das boot?
[18:09] <SuperEngineer> [litery pun there folks]
[18:09] <AlanBell> thames clipper
[18:09]  * SuperEngineer even more jealous - stop it
[18:10] <AlanBell> Emirates cable car is cool
[18:14] <SuperEngineer> the cable car taking you to the peak of mountain in Austria from where you see 3 counties & shi down is pdg as well
[18:14] <SuperEngineer> *countries
[18:14] <SuperEngineer> *ski
[18:15] <SuperEngineer> [damn my keyboarding (lack of) abilty]
[18:18] <christel> wine.. should i drink wine?
[18:18]  * SuperEngineer thinks: cross a river in a cable car or travel topside in a cable car? hmmm... 2nd 1
[18:18]  * brobostigon is.
[18:18]  * brobostigon is christel
[18:18] <SuperEngineer> christel: yes - it's very hard to eat
[18:18]  * christel nods
[18:23]  * SuperEngineer looks out window - *very* pretty sky
[18:23] <SuperEngineer> complete with hot air balloon
[18:28]  * penguin42 waits for his ice cream to soften
[18:29] <christel> :)
[18:30] <christel> i want ice cream
[18:30] <christel> and hot air balloons
[18:30] <christel> i've always wanted to go in one but i am a wuss :(
[18:31] <penguin42> yeh a hot air balloon would be interesting
[18:31]  * christel nods
[18:31] <penguin42> christel: You think something held up purely by hot air is too risky?
[18:31] <christel> AlanBell: hey there's an event idea!
[18:32] <christel> penguin42: nooo i just don't trust myself not to fall out!
[18:33] <penguin42> christel: Oh I think that's the least of the worries - the biggest problem seems to be them flying into power lines
[18:33] <christel> hehe
[18:34] <SuperEngineer> christel: just think of it as trying a release version odf a distro - you could even call it Quantel Quistel
[18:42] <SuperEngineer> so - trying to see what the Zorin distro looks like - will not load in a vm but copied to a dvd it loads live 1st time on netbook
[18:43] <SuperEngineer>  -what the heck setting do I need to change in VirtualBox?
[18:48] <MartijnVdS> use kvm?
[18:49] <christel> hahaha
[18:49] <christel> <3 SuperEngineer
[18:52] <SuperEngineer> ooo - cruel
[18:52] <SuperEngineer> I blame uupc - they plugged it
[18:53] <SuperEngineer> I just wanted to have a looksee
[18:57] <jacobw> SuperEngineer: it looks like a debian/ubuntu derived desktop distribution based on gnome2
[18:57] <jacobw> SuperEngineer: i'm sure what special about
[18:57] <MartijnVdS> Which HP Microserver was so popular again?
[18:57] <MartijnVdS> The N40L or the N36L? What's the difference anyway?
[18:57] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: There are only two aren't there?
[18:58] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: I think one is just a newer than the other; more RAM/CPU I think
[18:58] <MartijnVdS> ah yes
[18:58] <MartijnVdS> newer Turion
[18:58] <MartijnVdS> Not enough power :(
[18:58] <MartijnVdS> Might need to save money for a new PC and repurpose current one then
[18:58] <MartijnVdS> (as a hom VM host)
[18:58] <MartijnVdS> home*
[19:04] <MartijnVdS> on the other hand, faster H.264 encoding++
[19:06] <SuperEngineer> hmmm... zorin [free / base version] - good, but not enough unless you pay methinks - darned if I'm paying to see if I'd even consider a recommendaton
[19:09] <AlanBell> I am on a train!
[19:09]  * MartijnVdS will be on a train tomorrow
[19:10] <MartijnVdS> To the land of the Germans
[19:22] <SuperEngineer> Rumour has it EA Games is up for sale... let's start another rumour... thev've only had to do this because they weren't the ones who joined the Linux community ;)
[19:28] <MartijnVdS> 8-)
[20:15] <jacobw> MartijnVdS: sehr geehrter :)
[20:20] <Azelphur> valve announces major web video innovation, http://steamcommunity.com/groups/NewSteamCommunityBeta/announcements/detail/1639562542651419978 \o/
[21:01] <AlanBell> car, bus, train, tube, DLR, cable car, boat, train, bus, car
[21:01] <penguin42> no plane?
[21:03] <AlanBell> well the emirates cable car likes to think it is a plane
[21:06] <christel> :o
[21:06] <christel> once upon a time i wanted to be an airport when i grew up
[21:06] <christel> i wasn't a very clever child
[21:21]  * SuperEngineer decides it's time for sleepyland - been up since 5am - have fun folks, enjoy.
[21:30] <brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
[21:43] <christel> nn brobostigon :)
[23:18] <zumo__> Good morning interwebs.
[23:20] <zumo__> Anyone have a benchmark tool suggestion?
[23:21] <zumo__> I want to see which of the two machines I have is better. I know what one is better spec wise, But I have a feeling the other machine actually preforms better.
[23:24] <ali1234> depends what you want to test
[23:24] <sam_> hi
[23:25] <penguin42> zumo__: Yes as ali1234 says - depends on what to test, I think phoronix have a whole suite
[23:26] <zumo__> Yea im just looking at that now
[23:26] <ali1234> yeah, but phoronix suite is huge and the results are rather hard to interpret
[23:26] <zumo__> I just need to compare the CPU and probally the memory (I will be using the same sticks so its probally a motherboards use of it id be testing)
[23:27] <zumo__> Yea, I need to see what CPU actually performs better.
[23:27] <ali1234> memtest86 will benchmark your ram bandwidth
[23:27] <zumo__> Ive used memtest86 for checking to see if my ram is good, Beyond that, I have no idea on using the tool correctly
[23:27] <penguin42> zumo__: Well do something you normally do - e.g. if you're a programmer try a big compilation
[23:27] <ali1234> CPU is again difficult to benchmark... it depends what kind of operations
[23:28] <zumo__> The PC's im using are old rubbish, Throw together from bits.
[23:28] <ali1234> maybe you could tell us the two specs, and what operations you think are slower than they should be
[23:29] <zumo__> One machine is an AMD single core clocked at 2Ghz
[23:29] <zumo__> Whilst the other I think its a celeron clocked at 2.9Ghz I think
[23:29] <ali1234> that doesn't mean a great deal... need to know processor family etc
[23:31] <ali1234> cat /proc/cpuinfo | pastebinit
[23:31] <zumo__> The machines had windows on them but they crawled, Can't figure out if its the Ram the CPU or the motherboard, Or how its setup as a whole. Even throwing linux on them felt slower than what I had been used to
[23:31] <ali1234> if you put ubuntu on old machines it won't go fast
[23:31] <penguin42> zumo__: My dad's running an athlon of about 2.2GHz; it's not too bad, but some things suck
[23:31] <zumo__> Thier newer than what I had been using.
[23:31] <penguin42> zumo__: I run Mint with the MATE interface (i.e. Gnome2) on it for him
[23:32] <penguin42> zumo__: One thing to watch out for is that Linux Flash is broken on some Athlon's
[23:32] <zumo__> I just want to use the "fastest" one for web browsing. mainly
[23:32] <ali1234> you also need to check graphics card and probably hard drive speed
[23:32] <penguin42> zumo__: Go for the celeron
[23:33] <ali1234> nvidia driver is great for gaming but dog slow with compiz
[23:33] <ali1234> especially if you have a slow CPU
[23:41] <Azelphur> OT question, I'm thinking about getting a credit card so I can build up a credit rating and have protection for online purchases to use instead of my debit card, any recommendations? I pretty much know nothing about the credit world lol
[23:42] <ali1234> they are all the same
[23:42] <Azelphur> pick the one with the prettiest logo?
[23:42] <ali1234> if you pay it off every month then sure
[23:43] <Azelphur> yea, that's pretty much what I was planning on
[23:43] <Azelphur> can I get points / cashback things? :)
[23:44] <ali1234> sure
[23:44] <ali1234> they are dumb though
[23:44] <ali1234> especially the points
[23:44] <Azelphur> o.O
[23:44] <ali1234> it's always for stuff i would never in a million years want
[23:45] <ali1234> like gym memberships, or topshop
[23:45] <Azelphur> ali1234: rofl, reminds me of when my brother tried to get me to switch to lloyds because they were offering air miles and a free massage
[23:45] <ali1234> air miles i might actually use
[23:45] <Azelphur> I'd be interested in points towards buying gadgetry or something
[23:45] <ali1234> yeah good luck with that
[23:45] <Azelphur> D:
[23:45] <ali1234> maybe oyu can get a amazon or google credit card?
[23:46] <Azelphur> that'd be fun
[23:46] <ali1234> maybe you can find a cash back one
[23:47] <Azelphur> what's the deal with cash back? I spend money and they give me cash sometime later?
[23:47] <ali1234> no idea
[23:47] <ali1234> read the websites?
[23:47] <Azelphur> spose so :)
[23:47] <ali1234> you should get a cash ISA too
[23:48] <Azelphur> ali1234: I looked into those, the interest rates don't seem worth the effort to get it set up
[23:48] <ali1234> the interest rates are tax free though
[23:48] <Azelphur> talking about getting paid £100 a year tops with the amount of money I have
[23:48] <ali1234> that's the whole point
[23:48]  * Azelphur shrugs
[23:48] <ali1234> and, they are worth it
[23:48] <ali1234> i get 3.9% on mine
[23:49] <ali1234> with no minimum amount
[23:49] <Azelphur> yea, that works out at like £80 for me lol
[23:49] <ali1234> you won't get that on any normal savings account
[23:49] <ali1234> also, it is not hard to set up at all
[23:49] <Azelphur> ali1234: I get more than 10x that flipping shares in bitcoin lol, so I figured my time was better spent elsewhere
[23:49] <ali1234> you don't need to do anything
[23:50]  * Azelphur shrugs
[23:50] <Azelphur> it's usually difficult for me to sign up for things like this since I don't have a passport or drivers license
[23:51] <ali1234> well get one?
[23:51] <ali1234> jeez
[23:51] <ali1234> get a passport man
[23:51]  * Azelphur shrugs
[23:52] <ali1234> cash ISA is absolutely the best way to invest for zero risk and zero work beyond setting it up and moving it every couple of years (means writing one letter)
[23:52] <ali1234> it's so good there a yearly limit on how much you can invest in it
[23:52] <Azelphur> spose so :)
[23:53] <Azelphur> ali1234: when I bumped into ISAs I was already into the interest rates I get from bitcoin banks so the whole thing just seemed a bit meh
[23:54] <ali1234> yeah well bitcoin banks are a huge gamble
[23:54] <ali1234> you might as well go to the casino and put everything on red
[23:54] <Azelphur> haha
[23:54] <Azelphur> everybody looses in zero sum games eventually
[23:54] <Azelphur> bitcoin isn't zero sum :)
[23:54] <ali1234> wat
[23:54] <penguin42> Azelphur: The cashback stuffs are often difficult to get; they often have things like 0.25% cashback that drops over time, and only actually gets paid if you spend more than say 10k a year
[23:55] <ali1234> that is by definition not true
[23:55] <Azelphur> penguin42: http://www.aquacard.co.uk/credit-cards/reward-card I found this that looks kinda cool
[23:55] <Azelphur> says 3% on all purchases
[23:55] <Azelphur> but I'm not sure if it's limited to £100 cashback
[23:56] <ali1234> it says "3% on all purchases*"
[23:56] <penguin42> Azelphur: That's pretty good as it goes actually
[23:56] <Azelphur> ali1234:
[23:56] <Azelphur> Representative
[23:56] <Azelphur> 34.9%APR (variable)Apply NowWe believe that sensible spending and careful account management deserve to be rewarded, so we’re offering 3% cashback on all your purchases*. A big bonus if you’ve not been able to get credit before.It’s one of the most generous cashback credit card reward rates available in the UK – and you could be eligible for it!Here’s how the aqua Reward credit card works:Manage your account carefully by paying at least the
[23:56] <Azelphur> 3.141% or 3.432%34.92% or 39.95% or
[23:56] <Azelphur> 44.94% or 49.92%Cash AdvancesN/A2.840% or 3.432% or
[23:56] <Azelphur> 3.717% or 3.992%39.95% or 49.92% or
[23:56] <Azelphur> 54.95% or 59.95%Balance TransfersN/A2.527% or 2.840% or
[23:56] <Azelphur> 3.141% or 3.432%34.92% or 39.95% or
[23:56] <Azelphur> 44.94% or 49.92%We may apply the standard interest rate to transactions before the end of the special promotion period if in any month you do not make at least your minimum payment by the payment date or if you exceed your credit limit at any time.Interest Free PeriodYou will not pay interest on purchases if you pay your balance in full and on time each month. See section 3.7 of the terms and conditions for full details.There is no interest free period
[23:56] <Azelphur> InformationYou will not pay interest on new purchases if you pay your balance in full and on time. Otherwise, the period over which interest is charged is as follows: FromUntilPurchasesDate debited to your accountPaid in fullCash AdvancesDate debited to your accountPaid in fullBalance TransfersDate debited to your accountPaid in fullAll Other AmountsDate debited to your accountPaid in fullAllocation Of PaymentsIf you do not pay off your balance in full
[23:56] <Azelphur> Commission0%Balance Transfer Fee3% or minimum £3Cheque Fee3% or minimum £3 (on promotional rates except introductory offer)Copy Statement Fee£5Statement Date
[23:56] <Azelphur> Change FeeN/AProcessing Any Foreign
[23:56] <ali1234> blarg
[23:57] <penguin42> Azelphur: I bet they drop the 3% as soon as the contract lets them
[23:57] <zumo__> Azelphur Try your bank. Avoid capital one or vanquis or anything aimed at building up your credit file. Vanquis will give you a stupidly large limit, Very easy to misuse.
[23:58] <penguin42> Azelphur: Halifax has a 'reward' card that gives you 5 every month you spend over 300
[23:58] <Azelphur> sorry about that, terrible failpaste
[23:59] <Azelphur> ali1234: the * says that it'll be fine as long as I don't exceed my credit limit and make my payments on time


[17:40] <penguin42> daftykins: Do you follow the air ambulance service ebay page? They have some Dell R630 Xeon boxes going cheap - about 30mins left https://www.ebay.co.uk/str/theairambulanceser/Computers-Tablets-Networking/_i.html?_sacat=58058&_sop=1
[17:40]  * penguin42 isn't in the market at the moment, but for that money I don't see why I'd keep an Ivybridge going