[00:01] <Unit193> https://code.launchpad.net/~unit193/xubuntu-docs/fixes/+merge/250086 :P
[00:03] <Unit193> I didn't get pot! :3
[00:03] <knome> aww
[00:04] <knome> wfm though
[00:05] <knome> merged
[00:06] <Unit193> Hah, just pushed the pot too. :P
[00:06] <Unit193> Danke.
[00:06] <knome> that didn't get in
[00:06] <knome> where's krytarik's changes
[00:06] <Unit193> Did you do the 'haveibeenpwnedcom' ?
[00:06] <knome> do in what way? merge? yes.
[01:04] <jjfrv8> it looks like 14.04.2 has the 3.16 kernel which means I get the screen-dimming-on-logout issue on my laptop - bug 1384515
[01:05] <jjfrv8> So we know that it got fixed in kernels 3.17 and later, does that mean I should not file a new bug?
[01:06] <elfy> if there's a bug use it I guess
[01:07] <jjfrv8> but the bug is marked fixed-upstream
[01:08] <jjfrv8> should I add some kind of trusty tag to it?
[01:12] <bluesabre> ochosi, Unit193, ali1234 - sorry for the noise, but created the xfpanel-switch lp project and team and dumped you all into it
[01:13] <Unit193> Alright..
[01:21] <elfy> jjfrv8: not sure then
[01:21] <brainwash> bluesabre: looks like the cursor bug after restarting the session is not that easily reproducible
[01:22] <bluesabre> brainwash: probably means it will be even harder to fix
[01:23] <jjfrv8> okay, I'll just put a comment in the bug with my findings.
[01:23] <brainwash> bluesabre: yea, I've changed the cursor theme and size like 2 or 3 days ago, and only noticed the bug today
[01:24] <brainwash> was using the default cursor before
[01:25] <brainwash> bluesabre: did anyone package the light-locker lid close branch?
[01:25] <bluesabre> brainwash: I haven't yet, Unit193 maybe did
[01:25] <Unit193> bluesabre: I pingeded you and everything! :'(
[01:25] <elfy> random one for people - no numlock at the login screen here - anyone else with the same?
[01:25] <bluesabre> lol
[01:25] <bluesabre> brainwash: yes
[01:26] <bluesabre> Unit193: I suck at backlog
[01:26] <bluesabre> and forelog
[01:26] <Unit193> bluesabre: Need a better client! ;)
[01:26] <bluesabre> and yule logs
[01:26] <elfy> mmm
[01:26] <elfy> cake
[01:26] <AgAu> i had the issue with my mouse cursors... ended up just copying my mouse theme on top of the default one
[01:26] <brainwash> so.. where is it? wanna add a comment to bug 1307545 ?
[01:26] <AgAu> problem solved :P
[01:27] <Unit193> brainwash: ppa:xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-staging
[01:28] <brainwash> Unit193: great, thanks
[01:28] <Unit193> Sure.
[01:28] <jjfrv8> elfy, my numlock goes out when I log out but I can still toggle it, and it comes back on when I log in.
[01:29] <elfy> works fine and remembers state when I've logged in
[01:29]  * bluesabre is putting some notes together
[01:30] <elfy> but I did have numlockx called in one of the lightdm files - there was an update - that got commented and now doesn't work
[01:30] <elfy> so no numlock at login unless I toggle it there
[01:30] <elfy> pita
[01:30] <brainwash> old bug 835532
[01:30] <elfy> cos I obviously forget at not enough tea drunk time :(
[01:31] <elfy> brainwash: yea - saw that
[01:32] <elfy> fine in 14.10, fail in 15.04 - then I added numlockx - now something has decided that;s not going to work
[01:32] <brainwash> if the numlockx workaround does not work anymore, then you should file a bug report
[01:32] <elfy> yes ...
[01:32] <elfy> but ultimately pointless if it sits there with a heat of 6 ;)
[01:33] <elfy> and I've not seen anyone else flailing about with it :)
[01:33] <brainwash> not yet
[01:34] <Unit193> bluesabre: Good notes?
[01:34] <bluesabre> getting ready for meeting tomorrow
[01:34] <bluesabre> since I'm always unprepared
[01:34] <elfy> today ...
[01:34] <Unit193> Oooh.  That.
[01:35] <elfy> hopefully the new new fix for trusty will have landed by then
[01:35] <bluesabre> that'd be great
[01:35] <Unit193> So: Any questions before the meeting for me?
[01:36] <bluesabre> anything you want us to #info ?
[01:37] <bluesabre> also, is the transition to systemd actually going to happen this cycle?
[01:37] <bluesabre> FF in two days and all
[01:37] <Unit193> Don't have to.  desktop now is a layer on top of core, rather than an alternative.
[01:38] <elfy> bluesabre: not heard anything
[01:38] <elfy> could try and catch pitti in the morning
[01:38] <Unit193> bluesabre: He only comes on around 11-12pm!
[01:39] <elfy> pitti?
[01:40] <elfy> mmm that change to blueprint re lightdm-gtk-settings
[01:41] <elfy> I think it was when I got an update there that numlock wandered off
[01:45] <bluesabre> elfy: the settings app is almost in the archive
[01:46] <bluesabre> if you'd like, I can copy the package over to -staging so you can start playing with it
[01:46] <elfy> not saying that
[01:46] <Unit193> He's saying the new greeter, 2.0, broke it.
[01:46] <elfy> just reminded me that I think it was that which caused this numlock issue I'm seeing
[01:46] <elfy> *think*
[01:47] <bluesabre> ah, very possible
[01:47] <elfy> I shall use bluesabre as the profanity of choice each time I forget then :D
[01:48] <bluesabre> good idea
[01:50] <brainwash> elfy: did you add bug 1301056 to the vivid blueprint?
[01:51] <elfy> don't think so
[01:51] <Unit193> Is it important?
[01:52] <Unit193> So we change it in x-d-s, next up they want 'Xfce Session' changed.
[01:52] <brainwash> no, no one seems to care, oh.. someone actually does care and added it to the blueprint :D
[01:52] <brainwash> right, it's filed against both packages
[01:52] <elfy> why would someone add a trusty thing to vivid bug blueprint
[01:53] <brainwash> it's still valid I think
[01:53] <Unit193> It's still as valid as it was, sure.
[01:54] <elfy> well, time has caught up with me - night all
[01:54] <Unit193> I think it's a pointless delta against Debian/upstream.
[01:54] <Unit193> elfy: G'night.
[01:54] <brainwash> good night
[01:54] <bluesabre> night elfy
[01:55] <brainwash> it could be easily changed upstream and then we would just change it in x-d-s too
[01:55] <Unit193> Sure.
[01:57] <brainwash> lets wait and see if someone actually forwards the request upstream :>
[02:07] <brainwash> bluesabre: could the normal Xfce session benefit from this request bug 1181148 ?
[02:10] <brainwash> could be forwarded upstream (if it's not a won't fix or work for me case)
[02:11] <brainwash> works for me
[02:40] <bluesabre> not sure what I installed that could make this happen, but my display freezes every few seconds (mouse still moves)
[02:40] <bluesabre> maybe its the compositor...
[02:41] <bluesabre> well, it goes away with the xfwm compositor off
[02:42] <bluesabre> and its back when I turn it back on :\
[02:42] <Unit193> Well that's not good.
[02:43] <Unit193> (This computer runs my PPA, so has xfwm4 .3, but doesn't have the compositor on.)
[02:45] <Unit193> bluesabre: Oh good, only a snapshot?
[02:45] <bluesabre> Unit193: yeah
[02:45] <bluesabre> hadn't noticed it before today, and its definitely annoying enough I would have picked up on it
[02:48] <bluesabre> compton to the rescue for now
[02:55] <Unit193> Pushed -settings to ppa:xubuntu-dev/xfce-4.12 now too.
[03:13] <bluesabre> Unit193: nice
[03:14] <Unit193> chkver.sh helps me keep it up to date.
[03:20]  * bluesabre is not familar with chkver.sh
[03:27] <Unit193> Really?  It's right there ➞ /home/unit193/chkver.sh...
[03:29] <bluesabre> nogo bash: ./home/unit193/chkver.sh: No such file or directory
[03:29] <bluesabre> :p
[03:29] <Unit193> Hmm, weird.
[03:29] <bluesabre> probably cleaner than the script I use
[03:30] <bluesabre> mine parses packages.debian and packages.ubuntu for the source packages in xubuntu packageset
[08:04] <Noskcaj> bluesabre, the new xfce4-dev-tools is doesn't extract with our pristine-tar, WOuld you like a .dsc or would it be easier for you to upload yourself?
[09:30] <Luyin> hey, I was trying to test vivid, but this link seems dead: http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/327/builds/82959/downloads
[09:30] <Luyin> is it a wrong one? I thought it was the right one to the most recent version
[09:32] <Luyin> I just noticed that all the other links here (http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/327/builds) aren't working. Is it just me?
[09:46] <elfy> links work here
[09:46] <elfy> well builds does
[09:46] <elfy> where did you get those from?
[09:48] <Luyin> hmmm good question. perhaps the site was reloaded? I went from http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker -> testing tracker -> vivid daily, now more links are showing, and they all seem to work. don't know what I did wrong in the first place
[09:49] <elfy> okey doke
[09:49] <elfy> Luyin: just a heads up here - that daily is a bit fubar - might be better to wait till the version shows 20150218
[09:51] <Luyin> so you're saying I shouldn't test yet?
[09:52] <elfy> I'd not
[09:52] <elfy> which isn't something people would generally associate with me :)
[09:53] <Luyin> hehe
[09:53] <elfy> assuming timings stay the same - new vivid should be about in couple of hours
[09:53] <Luyin> okay, then I can do it this afternoon. got time today ;)
[09:55] <Akusari> good morning :-)
[09:58] <ochosi> morning
[09:58] <Akusari> I noticed the new tracker list is empty in the case of that are daily build ? Because yesterday i reported "entire disk" installation was successful and today i'm missing this entry
[09:58] <elfy> Akusari: I assume you speak of trusty image testing
[09:59] <Akusari> yes
[09:59] <elfy> there is a new build today - yesterdays are now archived
[09:59] <elfy> Luyin: one more thing - trusty image is a bit more important today than vivid :)
[09:59] <Akusari> ah ok, any reason for that or is it just a "daily" build ?
[10:00] <elfy> Akusari: happens with milestones'todays's milestone image' is tomorrow's archived daily
[10:00] <elfy> ochosi: morning :)
[10:01] <Akusari> ok, i understand :-)
[10:01] <Luyin> elfy: ok, I'll test that as soon as the running test is done. thanks for the tip
[10:01] <elfy> thank you :)
[10:03] <Akusari> btw: I send a mail to dev list and compared the installed packages. I noticed some new packages like  namely mate-notification-daemon. Does Xubuntu needs that daemon (for example)?
[10:03] <Luyin> elfy: pardon, another question: why trusty? trusty's released already. what is tested with trusty atm?
[10:04] <elfy> luyin there are point releases during the whole LTS cycle - we're testing the .2 release
[10:04] <elfy> it's a fortnight late ... but is due out tomorrow now
[10:05] <Luyin> ah, alright
[10:05] <elfy> Akusari: that's why the new images :)
[10:05] <elfy> it also had xscreensaver
[10:06] <Akusari> cool :-) I guess they are removed now. I can test it if i'm at home (after work right now)
[10:07] <elfy> yep - should finally be good ones
[10:08] <Akusari> hmmm, xscreensaver wasn't on my list... :-/
[10:09] <elfy> that's ok - it was on ours :)
[10:09] <Akusari> sure, but in this case it looks like my "compare" technics has some errors :-(
[10:09] <elfy> :)
[10:10] <Akusari> or my "list" command dpkg -l isn't safe enought
[10:10] <ochosi> Akusari: we had a community wallpaper contest for 14.04, i think the next one will happen the earliest for 16.04, unless someone signs up to do all the work...
[10:10] <elfy> ohhh
[10:10] <elfy> I work out now who Akusari is on m/l :p
[10:11] <Akusari> ochosi: Okay, it wasn't my idea to enter an contest. Just a small hint :-)
[10:11] <ochosi> elfy: oh wow, that was fast! :D
[10:11] <elfy> yea - didn't get up till a short while ago - not on second tea pot yet ;)
[10:12] <ochosi> Akusari: yeah, what i was trying to say is: we don't usually just add wallpapers to our default install, when we do, we hold community contests, and those are laborious
[10:12]  * ochosi is also looking for coffee
[10:12] <Akusari> ochosi: yes, that's okay for me :-)
[10:13] <elfy> ochosi: personally I think that we should start the ball rolling for 16.04 wallpaper - and it should be a community thing - we should just get involved at the setting up what we need and at the end when choosing
[10:13] <ochosi> yeah, tbh right now i don't have any time resources for that
[10:13] <elfy> if the community isn't interested enough - just revert to a standard thing
[10:13] <elfy> yep - really should be community driven imo
[10:13] <ochosi> most of my current time here is eaten up with artwork or following up on uploads or the bigger breakage
[10:13] <ochosi> and the rest is all dedicated to the next xfce release...
[10:14] <Akusari> elfy: Oops, yeah, on the email dev list i'm Daniel Mehrmann :)
[10:14] <ochosi> that's fine, the irc client shows your name too anyway ;)
[10:15] <elfy> yea - I'm just slower than normal right now :)
[10:15] <Akusari> and on lp it's daniel-mehrmann :-)
[10:15] <elfy> yep, worked that out from tracker :D
[10:16] <Akusari> :-)
[10:22] <elfy> ochosi: volume bar appears to not be white anymore but a blue - should I be expecting that :)
[10:22] <ochosi> ehm, volume bar where what?
[10:22] <ochosi> better accompany statements like that with an imgur link ;
[10:22] <ochosi> )
[10:22] <elfy> not easy to grab one of those
[10:22] <ochosi> notification?
[10:23] <ochosi> or what are you talking about?
[10:23] <elfy> vol notification
[10:23] <ochosi> hmno, that shouldn't be blue at all
[10:23] <elfy> yea - thin white border, normal body colour - the bar is blue
[10:23] <ochosi> http://i.imgur.com/JQltXPn.png
[10:24] <elfy> nope
[10:24] <ochosi> (that wasn't so hard...)
[10:24] <ochosi> greybird and vivid, that is
[10:25] <elfy> http://i.imgur.com/WZbV5s9.png
[10:25] <ochosi> could you check which notification theme you're using?
[10:25] <elfy> default
[10:25] <ochosi> yeah, switch over to greybird
[10:25] <elfy> just did :)
[10:25] <ochosi> and..?
[10:25] <elfy> white again :D
[10:26] <ochosi> k :)
[10:26] <ochosi> no idea why it was set to default for you
[10:26] <ochosi> that really shouldn't be the case
[10:26] <elfy> well ....
[10:26] <ochosi> is this a new install or still your borked one? :]
[10:26] <elfy> fiddling about with going down to previous lightdm-gtk-greeter to see if I could suss the no numlock issue
[10:26] <elfy> that was a mistake ...
[10:27] <ochosi> oh, aha
[10:27] <elfy> once I got back - it'd done all sorts to themes and fonts ...
[10:27] <elfy> could be time to do a clean install ...
[10:27] <ochosi> luckily i never use numlock, so i wouldn't notice regressions in that respect
[10:29] <elfy> bah
[10:30] <elfy> trusty seems to have the abiword with the space bar bug
[10:31] <ochosi> great, so they backported that bug?
[10:31] <ochosi> or did we just not notice it earlier
[10:31] <elfy> possibly didn't notice - but pretty sure we'd have seen it
[10:33] <Akusari> well, one of the first things I do on a xubuntu installation is: apt-get install libreoffice :-P
[10:34] <Luyin> Akusari seems to have followed the prolongued discussion on the mailing list ;)
[10:35] <Akusari> nope, this was an independent case :-)
[10:35] <elfy> ochosi: appears to be the same versions of abiword in  .1 and .2
[10:36] <elfy> ochosi: no - I lied version change
[10:37] <Akusari> i'm using lo since years now (on Windows) and as i switched to linux (xubuntu) back it was logical in my case to use the same software. :-) I never used abiword. So, i can't tell you anything about it :-) I guess thats fair
[10:39] <Akusari> Maybe you can criticize that i never test abiword, so it had no chance in my case :-)
[10:41] <elfy> nope - I only use it to smoketest
[10:41] <elfy> never actually use it
[10:49] <Akusari> so, the meeting starts in about 10 minutes?
[10:49] <bluesabre> Noskcaj: if you can put together a .dsc I'll sponsor it for you, otherwise will get to it tonight
[10:51] <elfy> Akusari: should do :)
[10:51] <Akusari> cool, i'll enjoy it as a guest if its allowed
[10:52] <elfy> absolutely - they are community meetings - the only thing you'd not be able to do is vote if there is a team vote
[10:53] <Akusari> that's clear :-)
[10:53] <elfy> exactly the same as m/l
[10:53] <Akusari> but i guess it's possible to send comments :-)
[10:53] <elfy> yep
[10:54] <Akusari> well, i think i will more listen then speak ;-)
[10:56] <bluesabre> !team | meeting in 4 minutes
[10:58] <bluesabre> my irc client is crashing every time it loses focus :\
[10:59] <elfy> good job you're running the meeting then , just focus on the task at hand :D
[10:59] <ochosi> ehm, use irssi?
[10:59] <ochosi> lol
[10:59] <bluesabre> :p
[11:00] <bluesabre> !team | meeting time!
[11:00] <bluesabre> #startmeeting Xubuntu Community Meeting
[11:00] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Feb 18 11:00:22 2015 UTC.  The chair is bluesabre. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[11:00] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[11:00] <bluesabre> !team | Who's around?
[11:00] <elfy> yep
[11:01] <ochosi> o/
[11:01] <bluesabre> small group, eh?
[11:02] <ochosi> only the (hard!) core
[11:02] <elfy> but usefully given tomorrow all in -release :D
[11:02] <slickymasterWork> o/ sort of
[11:02] <bluesabre> hey brainvvash
[11:03] <brainvvash> hi bluesabre
[11:03] <brainvvash> and hi brainwash
[11:03] <bluesabre> #topic Open action items
[11:03] <bluesabre> saw a few there for elfy and knome
[11:03] <elfy> yep
[11:04] <knome> hello
[11:04] <bluesabre> hiya knome
[11:04] <ochosi> oh wow, so if we just wait long enough, everyone will be here :)
[11:04] <elfy> bluesabre: actually they look like they're all done - further down
[11:05] <knome> hah :D
[11:05] <elfy> ochosi: rather than rolling release - have a rolling meeting :)
[11:05] <bluesabre> indeed :D
[11:06] <bluesabre> moving on then :)
[11:07] <bluesabre> #topic Team Updates
[11:07] <elfy> #info Trusty .2 testing - finally moving again
[11:08] <elfy> #info Daily vivid testing - moving in fits and starts
[11:08] <elfy> nothing else here
[11:08] <bluesabre> Sounds progress-y
[11:08] <elfy> yep
[11:09] <elfy> next week ...
[11:09] <bluesabre> #info xfce seems to be on track for the 4.12 release towards the end of the month
[11:09] <bluesabre> ^ ochosi is that safe to say?
[11:09] <ochosi> yup
[11:09] <bluesabre> #info xfce4-settings 4.11.4 released, available in vivid
[11:09] <bluesabre> #info xfwm4 4.11.3 released, available in vivid
[11:09] <bluesabre> #info lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings uploaded to vivid-proposed, awaiting archive admin approval
[11:09] <bluesabre> #info Unit193 updated the seed, xubuntu-desktop now depends on xubuntu-core
[11:09] <bluesabre> #info libxfce4util 4.11.0-1 pushed to vivid
[11:09] <ochosi> i wonder whether that's still ok for us to get it into 15.04
[11:10] <ochosi> but since most components should be bugfix only, it could
[11:10] <bluesabre> yeah
[11:10] <knome> i would also try to make the push, it's only sane to do that
[11:10] <elfy> yep
[11:11] <bluesabre> #info Created a launchpad project for xfpanel-switch, https://launchpad.net/xfpanel-switch, will not be including in vivid, postponed until 15.10
[11:11] <knome> maybe the tech lead could preliminarily talk with the release team about this incoming stuff
[11:11] <ochosi> #info Xfce4.12 release now has a clear roadmap and dates: https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/4.12/roadmap
[11:11] <ochosi> (sorry, was distracted updating that ^ page ;D)
[11:11] <elfy> lol
[11:12] <bluesabre> knome: yeah, I should do that
[11:12] <bluesabre> #action bluesabre to speak with release team about getting xfce-4.12 in vivid (FF)
[11:12] <meetingology> ACTION: bluesabre to speak with release team about getting xfce-4.12 in vivid (FF)
[11:12] <ochosi> yup, this is one more reason why i updated the roadmap page
[11:12] <knome> FF where appropriate, if it is like ochosi said that many are bugfix releases only :)
[11:13] <ochosi> so you have some refs for them
[11:13] <bluesabre> right
[11:13] <bluesabre> it should be fine, don't imagine any hurdles there
[11:13] <knome> maybe it'd help if somebody who is assisting the xfce release would put up a list of new releases we need in and if they are bugfix-only or not ;)
[11:14] <bluesabre> #info xubuntuteam trello created, https://trello.com/xubuntuteam
[11:14] <bluesabre> I think I'm out of updates now
[11:14] <slickymasterWork> #info Unit193 made several fixes to the documentation, including lowering the required translation cut-off percentage to 70 and some rewriting on the internet-networks chapter
[11:14] <knome> #info User survey #1 started, have 310+ responses already
[11:15] <ochosi> knome: i think we pretty much have all 4.11 pre-releases in already
[11:15] <knome> :)
[11:15] <ochosi> only those that are yet to come, and we don't need all of those
[11:15] <ochosi> (e.g. the xfce engine we likely won't install...)
[11:15] <knome> yup
[11:16] <bluesabre> any other updates?
[11:17] <knome> would be fuzzy, i've progressed with some of my stuff but nothing clear :P
[11:17] <knome> well
[11:17] <knome> #info development wallpaper uploaded
[11:17]  * bluesabre claps
[11:17] <knome> that that's probably it
[11:17] <ochosi> #info Greybird now supports the ubiquity panel
[11:17] <ochosi> #info Greybird has been updated for lightdm-gtk-greeter2.0
[11:18] <ochosi> #info Our icon-theme has been extended with lots of new symbolic icons for gtk3 apps
[11:18] <bluesabre> #info lightdm-gtk-greeter 2.0 released, available in vivid
[11:18] <knome> #info full mirrors list up on xubuntu.org for downloads
[11:18] <flexiondotorg> ochosi, You can override symbolic icon in GTK 3.14 now 😃
[11:19] <flexiondotorg> bluesabre, I see lightdm-gtk-settings landed 😃
[11:19] <bluesabre> flexiondotorg: I think its still chilling in the NEW queue, but we should hopefully get it in shortly
[11:19] <flexiondotorg> bluesabre, I am very confused about that queue.
[11:19] <ochosi> bluesabre: i thought didrocks already accepted it to proposed?
[11:19] <flexiondotorg> My PPA show that a new version of lightdm-gtk-settings is available.
[11:20] <bluesabre> maybe it is in now then
[11:20] <flexiondotorg> bluesabre, Do you know anyone who can review the queue?
[11:20] <ochosi> bluesabre: at least that's what i told you yesterday (you really suck at reading your backlog! :D)
[11:20] <flexiondotorg> All the Ubuntu MATE "glue" packages are not yet actioned 😞
[11:20] <elfy> ha
[11:20] <bluesabre> flexiondotorg: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-archive/+members
[11:21] <flexiondotorg> ochosi, How did you add support for ubiquity-panel to greybird?
[11:21] <bluesabre> any more updates? slickymasterWork ?
[11:21] <flexiondotorg> bluesabre, Thanks.
[11:21] <ochosi> flexiondotorg: we're in the middle of a meeting, let's talk later
[11:21]  * bluesabre loves how long this #info list is
[11:21] <flexiondotorg> sorry
[11:21] <ochosi> np
[11:22] <bluesabre> ochosi: -proposed isn't the last step, things get stuck there for weeks at a time
[11:23] <ochosi> bluesabre: yeah, but it's one step after NEW, no?
[11:23] <bluesabre> perhaps
[11:23] <bluesabre> next up
[11:23] <bluesabre> #topic Discussion
[11:23] <bluesabre> #subtopic Xubuntu Core upgrade issue
[11:23] <bluesabre> #link http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-core-upgrade
[11:24] <bluesabre> Is this one still an issue, or is that resolved with the recent seed updates?
[11:24] <ochosi> where's Unit193 now..?
[11:24] <elfy> finally asleep ...
[11:24] <ochosi> :)
[11:24] <bluesabre> ochosi: he couldn't make it this morning as I understand
[11:24] <ochosi> yeah, i know ;)
[11:24] <elfy> bluesabre: I thought this was done with the updates
[11:24] <bluesabre> its on the wiki page, thats all I know
[11:25] <ochosi> i wonder whether this just needs testing
[11:25] <bluesabre> I think it is done, but can't be certain
[11:25] <ochosi> yeah, i think there were no further comments made when he added it
[11:25] <elfy> possibly ochosi
[11:25] <elfy> testing that is
[11:25] <ochosi> let's keep it around for the next meeting or until when he's back then
[11:25] <ochosi> or add an #action for him :D
[11:25] <bluesabre> sounds good to me
[11:25] <bluesabre> #nick Unit193
[11:26] <bluesabre> #action Unit193 to follow up on Xubuntu Core upgrade issue (if anything is left)
[11:26] <meetingology> ACTION: Unit193 to follow up on Xubuntu Core upgrade issue (if anything is left)
[11:26] <elfy> action him to tie up with me for testing needs
[11:26] <bluesabre> #action Unit193 to tie up with elfy for xubuntu-core upgrade testing needs
[11:26] <meetingology> ACTION: Unit193 to tie up with elfy for xubuntu-core upgrade testing needs
[11:27] <bluesabre> so that item is out of the way
[11:27] <elfy> ty
[11:27] <ochosi> good
[11:27] <bluesabre> elfy: does it seem like the 14.04.2 and 15.04 daily image problems should be fully resolved now?
[11:28] <elfy> seems so - not had time to check 15.04
[11:28] <elfy> but ...
[11:28] <elfy> trusty .2 has the abiword space bug
[11:28] <bluesabre> >.<
[11:28] <elfy> bug 1395323
[11:29] <elfy> it's possible it was there in .1 and the original, but I don't think so
[11:29] <bluesabre> well, that's unfortunate
[11:29] <Akusari> I'll test 14.04.2 this evening again :-) (Report on mail dev list if we have a show stopper)
[11:29] <elfy> thanks
[11:30] <elfy> #action As many tests for trusty .2 before tomorrow afternoon from anyone who can
[11:30] <meetingology> ACTION: As many tests for trusty .2 before tomorrow afternoon from anyone who can
[11:31] <bluesabre> will work on cranking some out tonight
[11:31] <elfy> I'd like to point out that Beta 1 testing next week as well
[11:31] <elfy> #action Elfy to mail list(s) about Beta 1 testing
[11:31] <meetingology> ACTION: Elfy to mail list(s) about Beta 1 testing
[11:31] <bluesabre> I'm excited about that, my development env is a mess and I need a fresh install
[11:31] <knome> :)
[11:31] <elfy> given we've not done any milestones yet - would be good to get a nice turnout for that one
[11:32] <elfy> bluesabre: funny you should say that ... same here :)
[11:32] <knome> elfy, as always, just ping me and the other one and we'll put stuff in social media
[11:32] <elfy> knome: yep - thanks :)
[11:33] <bluesabre> anything else interesting to discuss?
[11:33] <knome> well
[11:33] <elfy> knome: you know the half discussion I started about getting a poll of sorts on the slide
[11:33] <elfy> should we put that on agenda?
[11:33] <knome> #info contributors - udpate your work items to keep the status website up-to-date
[11:33] <knome> elfy, put that on a blueprint
[11:34] <knome> we should just do it (tm)
[11:34] <elfy> ok :)
[11:35] <ochosi> the overall progress looks okayish: http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-v/group/topic-v-flavor-xubuntu.html
[11:35] <ochosi> given that much of what's TODO are bugs
[11:35] <knome> i'm just updating stuff related to me, will be a bit better tomorrow :)
[11:36] <ochosi> yeah, in general i think it's better than the graph suggests
[11:36] <elfy> added that to blueprint
[11:36] <knome> which is why people should update the work items :)
[11:36] <knome> oh and also..
[11:36] <knome> if there are things that you have clearly done but are marked with some team, take those to yourself
[11:37] <knome> technically it makes no differene, but you'll get some more credit for your work, this will be up forever
[11:37] <slickymasterWork> elfy, shouldn't that item also be added to the -docs blueprint, since it also involves it via the installer slideshow?
[11:37] <elfy> slickymasterWork: probably ...
[11:37] <slickymasterWork> I'll do it
[11:38] <knome> slickymasterWork, i'd say one work item per item to work; if you want it in both, split it :P
[11:38] <ochosi> +1
[11:38] <knome> eg. marketing to plan survey slide; docs to add survey slide
[11:38] <elfy> changed marketing one to reflect that
[11:39] <slickymasterWork> knome, I wasn't saying to add the exact same item, but to add a reference of it in the -docs blueprint
[11:39] <knome> yeah yeah ;)
[11:39] <elfy> slickymasterWork: I'll do it now
[11:39] <ochosi> bluesabre: what's the status on this? "Update Catfish and Mugshot authentication to use PolicyKit"
[11:40] <ochosi> (in the light of FF)
[11:40] <bluesabre> upcoming milestones: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VividVervet/ReleaseSchedule
[11:40] <bluesabre> February 19 (tomorrow): Feature Freeze, Debian Import Freeze
[11:40] <bluesabre> February 23: Beta Freeze
[11:40] <bluesabre> February 26: Beta 1
[11:40] <bluesabre> March 12: UI Freeze
[11:40] <slickymasterWork> I'm doing it elfy
[11:40] <bluesabre> ochosi: I'm going to have to FFe those
[11:40] <ochosi> bluesabre: and shouldn't we mark this as POSTPONED? Create a UI for the panel-switch application
[11:40] <bluesabre> had to rethink some things to make that happen, progress is happening
[11:40] <bluesabre> ochosi: yes, need to do that as well
[11:40] <ochosi> even though it's in progress, but it clearly won't make it for 15.04
[11:40] <ochosi> or we mark it as done
[11:40] <bluesabre> yup
[11:40] <ochosi> both is fine
[11:40] <ochosi> because the UI has been created
[11:41] <ochosi> the workitem didn't say "upload and install by default" :D
[11:41] <elfy> bluesabre: if you're doing things with mugshot - going to try and deal with the camera issue ?
[11:41] <bluesabre> elfy: I took a look, couldn't find the source of the problem :\
[11:41] <elfy> mmm
[11:41] <bluesabre> the camera does take the picture if you hit record, just doesn't display anything until you apply
[11:42] <elfy> I'll recheck that when I do clean install next week
[11:42] <bluesabre> ok
[11:42] <bluesabre> might be some gstreamer issue there
[11:42] <bluesabre> related, I played with "cheese" a lot that day, its silly fun
[11:42] <bluesabre> :p
[11:42] <elfy> ok - I'll try and remember to do check before I start adding things :)
[11:43] <knome> bluesabre, oh my...
[11:43] <bluesabre> knome: lol
[11:44] <bluesabre> ochosi: updated the blueprint
[11:45] <elfy> knome: re next poll, try and set up a 3 way with pleia2 ?
[11:45] <knome> sure, but she'll be away for at least this week
[11:45] <ochosi> woot
[11:45] <ochosi> a 3 way?
[11:45] <knome> ochosi, it's not how you imagined it you pervert
[11:45] <ochosi> i thought this was a family-friendly channel
[11:45] <bluesabre> elfy, oh my...
[11:46] <elfy> lol
[11:46] <ochosi> bluesabre: weee, pitti just updated greeter-settings
[11:46] <bluesabre> woooooo!
[11:46] <elfy> knome: don't think there's a mad rush for that, be nice to see if we can get some info in this cycle before the whole cycle one needs sorting
[11:46] <knome> yep
[11:47] <Akusari> where can i get new lightdm-gtk-greeter 2.0 and - settings ? xubuntu-stage ppa ?
[11:48] <ochosi> nope, i think either bluesabre's PPA for it or vivid proposed
[11:48] <ochosi> btw, one more thing i forgot...
[11:49] <elfy> vivid proposed?
[11:49] <ochosi> i think so, no?
[11:49] <bluesabre> should show up in vivid later today
[11:49] <Akusari> bingo , get it :-)
[11:49] <elfy> ochosi: not using that one here - just the staging one
[11:50] <elfy> anyway - sorry I interrupted you remembering something :)
[11:50] <ochosi> yeah, it's not that important, but gmusicbrowser might have a new release very soonish
[11:50] <ochosi> it just got gstreamer1.0 support
[11:51] <ochosi> we could try to FFe it
[11:51] <knome> i would +1 that, it's still in our seed
[11:51] <elfy> or remove it from the seed :p
[11:51] <ochosi> but unfortunately that still doesn't mean we can get rid of gst0.10
[11:51] <knome> boo
[11:51] <ochosi> because of xfburn and pidgin
[11:51] <bluesabre> one step closer anyway
[11:51] <ochosi> yeah true
[11:51] <bluesabre> two projects that don't ever do huge releases
[11:51] <ochosi> xfburn we can theoretically take care of ourselves, pidgin is a different beast
[11:51] <bluesabre> its going to be a while
[11:52] <ochosi> could also set a bug bounty for that on xfburn
[11:52] <ochosi> anyway... that was it from my side
[11:52] <bluesabre> cool
[11:52] <bluesabre> anything else to discuss? elfy, knome, slickymasterWork ?
[11:52] <knome> nope
[11:52] <elfy> nope - I'm good
[11:53] <slickymasterWork> nothing from me
[11:53] <bluesabre> cool
[11:53] <bluesabre> #topic Schedule next meeting
[11:53] <slickymasterWork> it's a mad house over here, this morning
[11:53] <Akusari> and i need a smoker break :-P
[11:53] <elfy> knome is next
[11:53] <bluesabre> knome, you want to schedule now or later? :)
[11:53] <knome> later
[11:53] <bluesabre> #action knome to schedule the most exciting community meeting ever
[11:53] <meetingology> ACTION: knome to schedule the most exciting community meeting ever
[11:53] <knome> lol
[11:54] <bluesabre> don't let us down!
[11:54] <elfy> if possible early next week pre-beta would be good from my pov :)
[11:54] <bluesabre> #endmeeting
[11:54] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Feb 18 11:54:09 2015 UTC.
[11:54] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2015/xubuntu-devel.2015-02-18-11.00.moin.txt
[11:54] <elfy> thanks bluesabre :)
[11:54] <knome> yeah, will have to coordinate with wife :P
[11:54] <elfy> :)
[11:54] <slickymasterWork> thanks all
[11:54] <bluesabre> thanks everybody
[11:54] <bluesabre> now go have fun testing 14.04.2 isos
[11:55] <knome> :)
[11:55] <Akusari> thanks too. It was real entertainment :-)
[11:55] <elfy> well the good news is the vivid iso's are a sensible size again - so that's a start :p
[11:55]  * bluesabre needs to clean the apartment, we either have a busted pipe or a leaky gutter
[11:55] <knome> ugh
[11:55] <knome> good luck with that
[11:56] <elfy> indeed - bad memories of that
[11:57] <elfy> bah
[11:58] <Akusari> I guess lightdm-gtk-settings split of lightdm-gtk-greeter into binary (old deb) and configuration files (setting deb) ?
[11:58] <elfy> vivid 32bit - no try/install options
[11:58] <Akusari> or something in this direction?
[11:58] <elfy> ochosi bluesabre Unit193 - http://i.imgur.com/L5i5TyV.png
[11:58] <bluesabre> Akusari: lightdm-gtk-greeter could only be configured by editing a test file before
[11:59] <bluesabre> -settings gives a nice gui
[11:59] <bluesabre> elfy: two monitor config in vbox?
[11:59] <Akusari> ahhhh ok thanks.
[11:59] <bluesabre> or
[11:59] <bluesabre> ??
[11:59] <elfy> bluesabre: no - 2 instances of vbox - one 32 and one 64 bit
[12:00] <bluesabre> I see
[12:00] <elfy> but 32bit is fubar
[12:00] <bluesabre> the right one looks a bit troublesome
[12:00] <Akusari> vbox = virtual box ?
[12:00] <elfy> Akusari: yep
[12:00] <Akusari> i prefer vmware :-P
[12:00] <elfy> bluesabre: indeed - alt+tab shows ubiquity there
[12:01] <ochosi> hm strange
[12:01] <elfy> checking if it's just vm issue
[12:01] <ochosi> grrr
[12:01] <ochosi> the greybird ubiquity panel needs a fix :/
[12:01] <ochosi> obviously that is a fixed-height panel
[12:02] <ochosi> bluesabre: ok, i'll fix that ^ and then tag a new greybird version...
[12:02] <Akusari> like i had with vmware player 6.0.5 and trusty iso testing (hang after reboot on step 17)
[12:12] <bluesabre> minutes are up https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
[12:12] <bluesabre> bbl
[12:12] <ochosi> thanks bluesabre
[12:12] <ochosi> bluesabre: wanna upload a new version of greybird today?
[12:12] <bluesabre> ochosi: will do this evening
[12:16] <elfy> ok - so 32bit vivid works properly on hardware
[12:16] <elfy> vm issues again ...
[12:20] <knome> hmp
[12:20] <elfy> works if you use the live boot menu to try or install, rather than let it do it's thing
[12:21] <elfy> grabbing an ubuntu 32 bit to double check that one
[12:22] <elfy> fingers crossed that fails too :)
[12:24] <ochosi> :)
[12:24] <ochosi> bluesabre: tagged greybird 1.5.3 for you
[12:28] <Akusari> Is there any chance that lightdm-gtk-greeter 1.9.0 gets a trusty backport, because there was this nasty bug that the background was choosen from the last user background login. I did a personal backport for myself but i think it would be good for other users too
[12:31] <elfy> but it didn't, appears to just be us
[12:32] <ochosi> elfy: :/
[12:33] <elfy> yea - no idea how to debug that
[12:34] <ochosi> some window manager focus problem maybe
[12:34] <ochosi> i have no clue either
[12:34] <ochosi> maybe ask one of the ubiquity devs whether they changed anything there
[12:34] <elfy> perhaps - if you alt tab, you can see it's there - but can't get to it
[12:35] <ochosi> that was 14.04.2 or vivid?
[12:35] <elfy> vivid
[12:35] <ochosi> ok, i might try to run a test for that today
[12:35] <elfy> I'd really be :| if it was trusty :)
[12:35] <ochosi> heh
[12:35] <ochosi> but only vivid in vbox?
[12:36] <elfy> and only 32bit
[12:38] <ochosi> only 32bit but both vbox and hardware?
[12:39] <elfy> sorry - confusing you :)
[12:39] <elfy> 32bit vivid daily in vbox fails
[12:45] <elfy> bug 1423161
[12:45] <elfy> slickymasterWork: ^^ 32bit vbox fail bug
[12:46] <slickymasterWork> it's still present elfy
[12:47] <slickymasterWork> what I mean, is this on new images or 2015-02-16 images?
[12:47] <elfy> yep - this is image dated today
[12:49] <slickymasterWork> I'll add me to it since I saw it
[12:53] <slickymasterWork> elfy, what do you think of setting it as Critical?
[12:57] <elfy> yea - I did
[12:59] <slickymasterWork> also done in LP elfy
[13:02] <Akusari> my lightdm-gtk-greeter 2.0 backport for trusty is on the way :-) https://launchpad.net/~daniel-mehrmann/+archive/ubuntu/test/+build/6988911
[13:02] <elfy> ty slickymasterWork
[13:02] <elfy> off for a bit now
[13:03] <knome> same here, fetching lunch
[13:32] <jjfrv8> elfy, I just checked and the abiword bug was present in the .1 release of T.  Both .1 and .2 have the 3.0.0 version. 3.0.1 is the fixed version.
[13:33] <jjfrv8> I noticed it too in my post-install tests but I figured it was normal that they don't do SRU updates for apps except for critical things.  Is that not the case?
[13:35] <knome> " Bugs which do not fit under above categories, but (1) have an obviously safe patch and (2) affect an application rather than critical infrastructure packages (like X.org or the kernel). "
[13:35] <knome> so, things like that are up for consideration
[13:35] <knome> from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#When
[13:35] <jjfrv8> ah, thx.
[13:37] <jjfrv8> guess they should have put it in there, then. :(
[13:38] <jjfrv8> ochosi, I wouldn't mind if you could give me a short list of the changes in xfce4-settings. Just so I don't miss anything.
[13:47] <ochosi> jjfrv8: ok, appearance settings is easy (and obvious): gtk themes have color-palette previews now, icon themes have previews now. that's about it if i'm not mistaken
[13:47] <ochosi> so basically new screenshots and mentioning the palette/icon-previews in a sentence would be enough
[13:48] <ochosi> the display dialog now supports DND layout for monitors, setting the primary display (tooltip explains what that is), display hotplugging (open minimal dialog when new display is detected), identify displays (show popup on each display to identify them)
[13:48] <ochosi> that's the shortlist
[13:56] <jjfrv8> ochosi, thanks. One more questions, assuming you still would like screenshots, should there be an updated list of default, installed styles?
[13:56] <jjfrv8> *question :)
[13:56] <ochosi> right
[13:56] <ochosi> i guess that's not crucial
[13:57] <ochosi> you could put the xfce themes there, that would sorta make sense
[13:57] <ochosi> as a minimum requirement
[13:57] <ochosi> for icon-themes i dunno, maybe gnome, elementary-xfce, faenza
[13:57] <ochosi> whatever you have installed
[13:58] <jjfrv8> oh, yeah, again, I'm getting xubuntu and xfce mixed up.
[13:58] <ochosi> np
[14:00] <jjfrv8> bbl
[14:25] <knome> pleia2, ping me again when you're back, let's see about switching to https://blog.twitter.com/2015/introducing-tweetdeck-teams
[14:40] <Unit193> "if anything is left" Something is left.
[14:41] <knome> and something is right?
[15:22] <Unit193> I got a few pings, answered.  Don't see why my latest changes would have fixed the upgrade issue.
[15:59] <Unit193> Are we adding the new -settings to the seed?
[15:59] <knome> i would imagine so
[15:59] <knome> or at least that we should we aren't currently :)
[16:09]  * ochosi is afraid of the myriad bugreports this level of customizability of the greeter will bring us...
[16:09] <knome> heh
[16:10] <Unit193> If we want it, should add it to the seed asap.
[16:10] <knome> if the level of customizability is a bug, then we can wontfix those
[16:10] <knome> Unit193, yapp.
[16:13] <ochosi> Unit193: +1
[16:16] <Unit193> Is that an ack or you going to do that now? :P
[16:17] <ochosi> an ack ;)
[16:20] <Unit193> Done.
[16:20] <Unit193> Having direct bzr access is niiiice.
[16:20] <ochosi> ty Unit193
[16:21] <Unit193> Of course.  Now, Sean will need to wait to refresh the meta until after it's published.
[17:16] <elfy> Unit193: if you get chance could you boot 32bit vivid in a vm - see what you make of it :)
[17:29] <Unit193> elfy: Live?
[17:31] <knome> i got to say the new development wallpaper is pleasing to the eye :)
[17:31] <knome> but in a weird way...
[17:37] <elfy> Unit193: yea iy you get chance
[17:40] <elfy> Unit193: 32bit boots to desktop if you use the menu at the beginning - if you wait for the try.instal dialogue - nada
[17:41] <Unit193> I don't like maybe-ubiquity. :3
[17:41] <Unit193> But, will try.
[17:41] <knome> maybe you do ;)=
[17:43] <elfy> if we're going to keep getting these issues I'll be telling people to choose earlier :D
[17:43] <Unit193> We should opt-out. :P
[17:45] <elfy> of installing :p
[17:45] <slickymasterWork> Unit193, am I assuming correctly that you have finished everything in the internet-networks chapter?
[17:45] <Unit193> slickymasterWork: For now.  I tried to keep the changes minimal to not lose any translations.  Shouldn't be much changed.
[17:46] <Unit193> For now = this cycle.
[17:46] <slickymasterWork> yeah, ok
[17:46] <knome> slickymasterWork, are you planning on more updates before the release?
[17:46] <slickymasterWork> thanks for it
[17:57] <knome> ochosi, i belive we want the option 1 proposed in https://sigma.unit193.net/~unit193/xubuntu-core.html. since FF is tomorrow, can you ack it?
[17:58] <knome> ochosi, if you don't have time, you can trust my discretion and ACK it without getting too deep into it
[17:58] <Unit193> I'd want a second technical ack.
[17:58] <knome> ochosi, it's in a way very trivial...
[17:58] <knome> Unit193, does bluesabre suffice, or do you want somebody else to do that?
[17:59] <Unit193> He might, but as he doesn't know it very well...  krytarik might be a good one, in the relm of Xubuntu.
[18:03] <ochosi> ok, i've quickly read through the page
[18:03] <Unit193> ochosi: And the linked lines?
[18:04] <ochosi> not yet
[18:04] <ochosi> so hm, that'll be tough, with the little time i have no (practically 0)
[18:04] <ochosi> s/no/now/
[18:05] <Unit193> < Unit193> Or, we could have it as it is, except just add 'if xubuntu-core is installed, a-ok!"
[18:05] <ochosi> i think i'd prefer if sean could ack this
[18:05] <knome> or we can have somebody who's outside xubuntu ack it
[18:05] <ochosi> yeah
[18:05] <knome> ochosi, if you can ack the general direction...
[18:06] <ochosi> general direction being: we want to resolve potential upgrade issues?
[18:06] <knome> yes
[18:06] <knome> and not install desktop if you only have core
[18:07] <Unit193> ochosi: Option 1. If neither xubuntu-core nor xubuntu-desktop is installed, install xubuntu-core.  option 2. If neither xubuntu-core nor xubuntu-desktop is installed, install xubuntu-desktop.
[18:07] <Unit193> Both mean if xubuntu-core or xubuntu-desktop is installed, carry on like normal and install no new metapackage.
[18:08] <ochosi> yeah, figured
[18:08] <ochosi> i guess i lean towards 1)
[18:08] <ochosi> people who do unclean upgrades should sorta know what they're doing
[18:08] <Unit193> I do.
[18:08] <ochosi> so installing less packages on their behalf is maybe better
[18:08] <Unit193> Oh, that wasn't pointed, nevermind.
[18:08] <knome> and people who don't have -desktop or -core probably rather get -core than -desktop.
[18:09] <ochosi> yeah
[18:09] <Unit193> Reminds me I should move light-locker recommends to core..
[18:09] <knome> and since removing abiword shouldn't mean removing -desktop in vivid and future, -desktop is harder to accidentally drop
[18:10] <Unit193> knome: And your survey supported that people don't do that anyway.
[18:10] <ochosi> ok folks, gotta run, have a nice evening
[18:10] <knome> Unit193, do what?
[18:10] <Unit193> knome: Remove stuff.
[18:10] <knome> ochosi, hf
[18:10] <ochosi> u2
[18:11] <knome> well, about half of the people do
[18:12] <knome> but i think that's more of a question for the next poll anyway
[18:12] <knome> what do you remove after installing
[18:12] <knome> if it's stuff that doesn't get xubuntu-desktop removed (from vivid), then this doesn't affect them in any way
[18:12] <knome> if it's stuff that does, what is it?
[18:13] <knome> the next survey questions are already clearer in my mind
[18:13] <Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/IE5aIsNbynfkFlErv7oX one of those! :P
[18:14] <Unit193> Note, we can also recommend things in core and depend on them in desktop.
[18:14] <knome> there's going to be interesting questions for the devel team in the future
[18:14] <knome> should -artwork be recommends?
[18:14] <knome> should -default-settings be in -core?
[18:14] <Unit193> 1. Not in core, but in desktop yes.  2. Yes.
[18:14] <knome> yep.
[18:15] <knome> i would lean towards that too
[18:15] <Unit193> knome: We already went over this, it is "Xubuntu" core, not xfce4.
[18:15] <knome> absolutely
[18:15] <knome> that isn't a question of just core though
[18:15] <knome> if somebody installs xubuntu-desktop with no recommends, they won't get the artwork
[18:15] <knome> which is...
[18:15] <knome> well, that's not ideal.
[18:15] <knome> imo
[18:16] <knome> but otoh, removing the artwork should probably keep -desktop
[18:16] <Unit193> knome: That's also false. :P
[18:16] <knome> why is it? :P
[18:16] <knome> why do you say my opinions are false? :P
[18:16] <Unit193> apt-get install --no-install-recommends xubuntu-core   will even get me artwork.
[18:16] <knome> oh.
[18:16] <Unit193> Please to look at seed.
[18:17] <knome> noooo
[18:17] <knome> i'm fine with how it is
[18:17] <knome> i love to be proven wrong when i say something i don't like :)
[18:17] <knome> but it all makes sense
[18:18] <Unit193> https://sigma.unit193.net/xubuntu.vivid/core.html - https://sigma.unit193.net/xubuntu.vivid/desktop.html  There, I make them pretty!
[18:18] <knome> have we planned to do these changes in vivid?
[18:18] <knome> because i can't see a reason why we wouldn't, with all the seed poking.
[18:18] <Unit193> knome: What changes?
[18:19] <knome> artwork to recommends in desktop
[18:19] <Unit193> And planned, well that's non-blueprinted, so..
[18:19] <knome> default-settings in core
[18:19] <knome> and recommends in desktop?
[18:19] <knome> well has there been any discussion about that
[18:19] <Unit193> artwork isn't mentioned in desktop, it's a dep of core.  I believe I did plan to do this.
[18:19] <knome> oh.
[18:19] <Unit193> Well, kind of.
[18:20] <knome> so is the paste a depends of core?
[18:20] <Unit193> apt-cache show xubuntu-desktop | grep Dep
[18:20] <Unit193> Look at the html files, those are the seeds.
[18:20] <knome> don't make me do stuff like that, answer my simple boolean question :P
[18:22] <Unit193> I did, in a technical way.  The desktop metapackage inherits all depends and recommends of core, it's why I removed them from desktop (or, now it does.  After I changed things all around.)
[18:22] <knome> ok, good
[18:22] <knome> then even more so i think we should do the metapackage change that fixes core upgrades
[18:38] <Unit193> elfy: I, err, can install...  But yeah nothing about that is normal at all.
[18:42] <elfy> mmm - so you can see and use the try/install dialogue?
[18:45] <Unit193> Nope, that's why it's not normal.  It's all broken.
[18:45] <elfy> right ok
[18:45] <elfy> getting fed up with vbox issues
[18:47] <brainvvash> didn't one user report something similar few days ago? no install window when using a small screen (netbook)
[18:48] <elfy> the QA jam
[18:48] <brainvvash> ah yes
[18:48] <brainvvash> was that issue resolved?
[18:48] <elfy> not sure tbh
[18:48] <elfy> and ... vbox 32 bit was fine - now it's not
[18:50] <brainvvash> it's a mystery
[18:51] <brainvvash> something ubiquity related is always broken
[18:52] <elfy> what's weirder this time is 64bit is ok
[19:49] <Unit193> libxfce4ui 4.11.2 looks like something very good to add.
[19:55] <Noskcaj> bluesabre, I've packaged whiskermenu 1.5.0 if you have time to upload
[19:55] <Unit193> What's new?
[19:56] <Noskcaj> http://gottcode.org/xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin/
[19:56] <Noskcaj> A fair few things
[19:56] <Akusari> hello :-)
[19:56] <Noskcaj> Hi Akusari
[19:57] <Akusari> Just a question before i start my iso-testing: Current i see "Xubuntu Desktop amd64 (re-building)". So it's build and i should wait a little bit?
[19:57] <Noskcaj> yes
[19:57] <Akusari> ok
[19:58] <Akusari> i don't wanna test old stuff :)
[19:59] <Akusari> However, it would be the best time now. My wife hangs on the phone and that gives me some time ;-)
[19:59] <Unit193> "Load default settings from XDG location"
[19:59] <Unit193> I'd consider that important.
[20:00] <Noskcaj> Akusari, It's only 1 day out, so most bugs you find would be the same.
[20:01] <elfy> Noskcaj: let's not put people off testing when they've not been about long - thanks ;)
[20:01] <Noskcaj> ?
[20:01] <Akusari> ok, i understand. Well, i need preperation time as well now. :-) Cleaning up my system. reset the first snapshots and so on
[20:02] <elfy> likely to be a while till the rebuild is built
[20:05] <Akusari> Well, you know womens needs _hours_ on the phone., so there is no time pressure :-)
[20:05] <elfy> heh
[20:07] <Akusari> ok, i'm ready to go. It looks like the build is still running, but a perfect moment for a smoker break B-)
[20:11] <Akusari> As expected simple backup runs now on my machine, but it shouldn't take a long time. Just a incremental backup over nfs
[20:12] <Akusari> cron jobs ;-)
[20:15] <Akusari> btw: I'm really impressed by xubuntu (xfce). I played a lot of hours diablo III on this machine and no hang up's, no freeze - just nothing. Really stable and you know diablo is a Windows game used with wine
[20:17] <Akusari> I was expecting these kind of problems. So, i need to pull my hat :-)
[20:20] <Akusari> oh...rebuild finished...let's go :-)
[20:21] <Akusari> oops: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/trusty/daily-live/20150218.1/trusty-desktop-amd64.iso   ...not found :-\ maybe i'm a bit to fast
[20:22] <Akusari> or build failed?
[20:22] <elfy> nah - you're too quick - give it a little while to wake up
[20:23] <Akusari> lol, well, you can call me vettel (formula 1 driver) :-P
[20:23] <elfy> :)
[20:24] <genii> I sort of find it odd that it's a Trusty daily and not Vivid
[20:24] <elfy> testing trusty .2 genii :)
[20:24] <genii> Aaah, OK
[20:24] <Akusari> so i'm waitung for your release message
[20:24] <Akusari> :-)
[20:25] <elfy> my release message?
[20:25] <Akusari> just tell, ok, cdimage is online or so
[20:25] <Akusari> or post the link (whatever)
[20:28] <Akusari> Let's watch soccer while i'm waiting :-) (CL schalke - real madrid)
[20:33] <elfy> Akusari: oic - looks good now
[20:33] <Akusari> oic?
[20:34] <Akusari> yep, downloading now...
[20:34] <Akusari> 30 seconds to go :-)
[20:35] <elfy> oh I see :)
[20:35] <knome> Akusari, no need to output progress status messages every 30 seconds ;)
[20:35] <Akusari> ok :)
[20:38] <Akusari> Maybe i should stream a live webcam from the installation :-P
[20:40] <knome> Akusari, you can do that freely at #xubuntu-offtopic
[20:42] <Akusari> Come on, that was a joke of course (just my humor) :-) i'm sorry
[20:42] <knome> i'm not completely serious either :P
[20:42] <elfy> :)
[20:43] <Akusari> :-)
[20:45] <Akusari> I guess there is no need to do a packges check again ? (you did it already?)
[20:46] <elfy> Akusari: you just need to smoketest thanks
[20:46] <Akusari> ok
[20:48] <Akusari> lucky elfy that i'm a real smoker *rofl*
[20:48] <elfy> so was I
[20:49] <elfy> Akusari: you really should join the offtopic channel ;)
[20:49] <Noskcaj> Are we dropping gtk3-engines-xfce for 15.04?
[20:52] <Unit193> Noskcaj: I'm looking at libxfce4ui, xfconf, and the engines.
[20:53] <Noskcaj> ok, i'll leave it to you then
[20:53] <Noskcaj> Can you do dev-tools too please
[20:54] <Unit193> Unless you were already working on any, that is.
[20:55] <Noskcaj> I've not started on any of them
[20:55] <Unit193> Before I do 'em, want any?
[20:55] <Noskcaj> I've got engines branched, if you want me to take that
[20:56] <Unit193> gtk-xfce-engine 3.1.0?  Alright, have fun.
[20:56] <Unit193> ochosi specifically wanted that one.
[20:57] <Noskcaj> Are we dropping the gtk3 engine for 15.04?
[20:58] <flexiondotorg> Evening
[20:58] <Noskcaj> hey flexiondotorg
[20:59] <flexiondotorg> Noskcaj, Hi 😃
[20:59] <flexiondotorg> ochosi, I got caught up with "stuff" earlier. Are you still about?
[20:59] <Unit193> brainvvash, brainwash: Any bugs we should be aware of?
[21:00] <Akusari> elfy: wow no bugs! First time that vmware player 6.0.5 not hanging after step 17 (entire disk) :-)
[21:00] <elfy> cool - thanks :)
[21:01]  * knome sighs and starts the final polishing stuff for the staging site
[21:02] <knome> elfy, did you ever try the latest navigation for the small sizes?
[21:03] <elfy> ooh
[21:03] <elfy> no I didn't
[21:03] <Akusari> elfy: i'll do some more tests now (manual partition, lvm setup and so on)
[21:03] <knome> well please do now and report complaints if any :)
[21:03] <elfy> knome: ack
[21:03] <knome> i'll be playing around with the gallery and attachment pages at least
[21:03] <elfy> Akusari: you are welcome to test lvm - but we don't ask for that nor have anywhere on tracker to report that
[21:04] <Akusari> ok, manual partitioning only :-)
[21:10] <flexiondotorg> Noskcaj, bluesabre elfy ochosi ali1234 I mentioned earlier that in GTK 3.14 it is possible to override symbolic icons and re-instate full colour icons.
[21:10] <flexiondotorg> Is this something Xubuntu are interested in?
[21:10] <ali1234> it should be up to the theme?
[21:10] <elfy> knome: reports in here?
[21:11] <elfy> evening ali1234
[21:11] <ali1234> i quite like symbolic icons
[21:11] <flexiondotorg> ali1234, Yes is it a theme feature.
[21:11] <flexiondotorg> ali1234, That is why I ask.
[21:11] <ali1234> i dunno. i foolishly said i'd port orion to gtk 3.14
[21:11] <flexiondotorg> ali1234, Because in MATE the mix of symbolic icons in GTK3 applications and full color icons in elsewhere looks a bit jarring.
[21:16] <flexiondotorg> ali1234, https://github.com/mate-desktop/mate-themes/commit/c2b2e6d753de14f6109a135166ceec9222657d40
[21:19] <brainvvash> Unit193, bugs in which component?
[21:20] <Unit193> brainvvash: I was looking at xfconf and libxfce4ui, snagged one per from upstream.
[21:21] <Noskcaj> I have to go to school, and haven't finished the engines. If someone wants to take them, feel free
[21:30] <andrzejr> Hi, looks like I cannot use _() macro in neither xfce4-indicator-plugin nor xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin.
[21:31] <andrzejr> at very least that means I haven't broken the config when copying it from *-indicator-* to *-pulseaudio-* - it has been broken before.
[21:31] <andrzejr> interestingly in the indicator plugin I use N_() macros and they work fine. Any idea what can be wrong?
[21:34] <brainvvash> no clue
[21:36] <brainvvash> andrzejr, any news re https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10656 ? should we just disable/comment the code part to prevent the bug?
[21:37] <andrzejr> I don't have any better idea. IMHO we should disable it for a stable release
[21:38] <brainvvash> yes, it could be re-enabled in a point release
[21:38] <brainvvash> in case a solution can be found
[22:01] <Unit193> https://code.launchpad.net/~unit193/ubuntu-release-upgrader/core-upgrades/+merge/250224
[22:01] <Akusari> good night all :-)
[22:01] <Unit193> G'night.
[22:08] <Unit193> bluesabre: Hey, you should check out /source/ for the new stuff.
[22:08] <Unit193> bluesabre: Hey, I got libxfce4ui and xfconf in ppa:xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-staging.
[22:08] <Unit193> bluesabre: Hey, I may look into xfce4-dev-tools now and pop it into /source/ and ppa:xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-staging.
[22:08] <Unit193> bluesabre: Hey, did I ping you enough now? :---------D
[22:08] <elfy> I knew I shouldn't add bluesabre to my ping list
[22:26] <Unit193> It seems I'm supposed to mention that core brings in xscreensaver still, while desktop brings in light-locker.
[22:26] <knome> huhu
[22:26] <knome> :P
[22:26] <Unit193> xscreensaver just happens to be what it brings in due to xfce4-session, not actually as seeded.
[22:29] <elfy> !team
[22:29] <Unit193> elfy: What you ping me for? :(
[22:29] <elfy> if anyone is going to test anything for trusty - please concentrate on 32 bit - thanks :D
[22:29] <elfy> cos I can Unit193
[22:30] <knome> haha :)
[22:30] <elfy> Unit193: at least you're about
[22:30] <elfy> Unit193: and won't see them all later :p
[22:31] <Unit193> knome: Please to ack.
[22:32] <knome> ack what?
[22:32] <Unit193> Added you to the MP since Simon was sleeping.
[22:32] <knome> aha
[22:43] <bluesabre> hey all
[22:43] <bluesabre> Unit193: so you have uploads for me it seems
[22:44] <elfy> hi bluesabre :)
[22:44] <bluesabre> hey elfy
[22:46] <Unit193> So it would seem. :D
[22:47] <bluesabre> Unit193: did you add -settings to the seed?
[22:47] <Unit193> Yes.
[22:47]  * bluesabre is slow to get to his inbox
[22:47] <bluesabre> yay
[22:47] <Unit193> !info lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings vivid
[22:47] <bluesabre> too new
[22:48] <Unit193> Mhmm, so don't update the meta yet.
[22:49] <bluesabre> ok, will do that late tonight or tomorrow morning then
[22:49] <Unit193> gtk2-engines-xfce is now in /source/ too, I disabled gtk3.
[22:50] <ochosi> evening all
[22:51] <elfy> evening ochosi
[22:51]  * ochosi is still reading backlog
[22:51]  * elfy provides index
[22:51] <elfy> S - Stuff
[22:52] <bluesabre> hey ochosi
[22:52]  * bluesabre avoids links, they crash quassel on hover
[22:52] <knome> ahhaha. :)
[22:53] <bluesabre> probably since we just got some new qt in the archive on monday
[22:53] <knome> xu, humm?
[22:54] <ochosi> Unit193: yeah, we should move our whiskermenu config accordingly for 1.5.0
[22:54] <ochosi> quite a good change, that
[22:54] <Unit193> dget https://sigma.unit193.net/source/gtk2-engines-xfce_3.1.0-0ubuntu1.dsc  -  https://sigma.unit193.net/source/libxfce4ui_4.11.2-0ubuntu1.dsc  -  https://sigma.unit193.net/source/light-locker_1.6.0-0ubuntu1.dsc  -  https://sigma.unit193.net/source/xfce4-dev-tools_4.11.1-0ubuntu1.dsc  -  https://sigma.unit193.net/source/xfconf_4.11.0-0ubuntu1.dsc
[22:54] <Unit193> ochosi: Indeed, and doesn't have to migrate as it was in usr/share (which, to some extent is nice. :P )
[22:55]  * bluesabre is about to get all uploady
[22:56] <Unit193> bluesabre: Please review!
[22:56]  * bluesabre is about to get all reviewy
[22:58] <Unit193> \o/
[23:04] <elfy> ha ha
[23:13] <Unit193> bluesabre: And, sorry for giving you so much work too. :P
[23:13] <bluesabre> haha
[23:20] <bluesabre> ok,
[23:20]  * bluesabre finally starts reviewing packages
[23:21] <Unit193> At least I made it fairly easy to see what's been released and what commits have been made...
[23:21]  * bluesabre nods
[23:38] <Unit193> bluesabre: I think ochosi only wanted the theme engine for a PPA?
[23:39] <bluesabre> ochosi: ^ ?
[23:39] <ochosi> yeah, well it would be nice for me to get some testing for the 4.12 default theme
[23:39] <ochosi> otherwise i've been the only one using it
[23:39] <ochosi> and that is unlikely to be a good idea
[23:39] <elfy> agreed
[23:40] <elfy> you only see round circles
[23:40] <elfy> :D
[23:40] <bluesabre> oO0o0O
[23:41] <knome> Ø
[23:41] <elfy> yep
[23:41] <elfy> all circles
[23:41] <elfy> apart from the foreign thing with a line :D
[23:42] <bluesabre> ochosi: so, no archive, ppa only for the theme engine?
[23:42] <knome> elfy, öøÖø
[23:42] <knome> elfy, all from the keyboard without any weird unicode stuff :P
[23:42] <elfy> show off
[23:42] <elfy> :D
[23:42] <ochosi> bluesabre: dunno, archive is ok too, but i'm not sure many use that engine actually...
[23:42] <ochosi> i mean, yeah, archive is better
[23:42] <knome> elfy, ÆŒÅÄÐ!
[23:43] <elfy> anyway - seriously I would think that making easy for me and putting this stuff in a ppa
[23:43] <elfy> would cheer me up :)
[23:43] <knome> elfy, and of course, œæðå...
[23:43] <bluesabre> not in our packageset, so itd require a bit more oomph http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/packagesets/vivid/xubuntu
[23:43] <elfy> I'll test anything and notice things that knome won't
[23:43] <knome> absolutely.
[23:43] <elfy> like square rectangles and the like
[23:45] <ochosi> bluesabre: i guess then let's go for PPA
[23:45] <ochosi> testing only makes sense prior to 4.12
[23:46] <Unit193> I already popped it into a PPA, didn't I?
[23:46] <ochosi> Unit193: you did?
[23:47] <ochosi> sorry if i missed that
[23:47] <bluesabre> Unit193: is ahead of the game
[23:47] <ochosi> yeah
[23:47] <Unit193> ochosi: You didn't need gtk3, right?  Support has been dropped and all.
[23:52] <bluesabre> so with the new engine, do gtk3 themes just use adwaita?
[23:52] <bluesabre> s/themes/apps
[23:53] <bluesabre> it seems to be the case
[23:54]  * bluesabre is not bothered by this
[23:54] <ochosi> yeah
[23:55] <bluesabre> Unit193: your gtk engine package works for me
[23:55] <ochosi> Unit193: yeah, we don't want gtk3 engine anymore
[23:55] <Unit193> Great!
[23:55] <Unit193> Great!
[23:55]  * bluesabre moves on to the next package which will actually be uploaded


[00:49] <bryceh> anyone know, are we getting ARM video drivers in the archive for Q?
[01:00] <bjsnider> bryceh, i have .51 ready to go
[01:00] <bjsnider> i thought that was the right one
[01:01] <bjsnider> it says it's a long-lived release
[01:01] <bjsnider> i've been using my download bandwidth for something else all day but that will be done in a few minutes and i was going to send it in then
[01:09] <bryceh> bjsnider, awesome thanks
[01:09] <bryceh> didn't realize there was a .51 already; good to know
[01:15] <bjsnider> i noticed that ricotz had sent it into xorg-edgers
[01:15] <bjsnider> he must pay somebody inside nvidia for the info on when new blobs are released
[01:15] <RAOF> tjaalton: I'd love to try the auto-power-off patch :)
[03:52] <fubada> hi, is the ppa add procedure under 12.04 still "apt-add-repository ppa:ubuntu-x-swat/x-updates'?
[04:12] <tjaalton> bryceh: ok thanks, i'll discuss it with airlied
[04:13] <tjaalton> RAOF: fof the kernel? i could build a paxkage with it/them
[04:13] <tjaalton> package too
[04:13] <RAOF> tjaalton: Oh, they're kernel patches? That seems odd.
[04:13] <RAOF> The kernel already exports all the necessary juju for userspace to do that.
[04:14] <tjaalton> hmm
[04:14] <tjaalton> ok, don't know which patch you're referring to then  :)
[04:14] <RAOF> tjaalton: The one you pinged me about earlier?
[04:15] <tjaalton> i did?-)
[04:15] <RAOF> 21:31 <tjaalton> RAOF: I'm adding the patch for dynamic gpu poweroff too, would be fun to test how that works
[04:16] <tjaalton> wth was that about. probably meant the kernel patches there
[04:16] <RAOF> Heh
[04:17] <tjaalton> I was meant to build a kernel for that, but didn't yet
[04:17] <RAOF> Again, I don't know why that's a kernel patch; X should have all the information necessary to parse /sys/kernel/debug/vgaswitcheroo/switch and turn off any GPU its not using.
[04:17] <tjaalton> there are a couple of threads on dri-devel about this
[04:18] <tjaalton> [RFC] drm dynamic power off support
[04:18] <tjaalton> well, this is _dynamic_!
[04:18] <ajmitch> so with the q-lts-backports PPA, if I install the renamed packages & then try to upgrade to quantal, will things break? I didn't see any conflicts/replaces or breaks from the quantal X to the renamed packages
[04:18] <tjaalton> :)
[04:19] <RAOF> Oh, hey. Evolution's crashed again.
[04:19] <RAOF> Maybe the OOM killer hit it again.
[04:21] <RAOF> Ah, ok. I see those. Interesting!
[04:21] <RAOF> That'll obviously be *more* interesting when powering on the radeon doesn't crash X, of course.
[04:21] <tjaalton> heh
[04:21] <tjaalton> btw, push -ati git ;)
[04:22] <fubada> do you guys know if I need to use jockey-text to switch to nvidia_current from x-swat
[04:22] <fubada> i dont have x11, using ubuntu-server
[04:24] <tjaalton> if you already have nvidia enabled then no
[04:25] <fubada> by defaault it uses the free drive nouveau
[04:25] <RAOF> tjaalton: Ta for the prod there.
[04:26] <tjaalton> fubada: yes, so why do you need the blob if it's a server?
[04:27] <fubada> im going to install xbmc as it is also my htpc
[04:27] <fubada> it doesnt need any dm
[04:27] <fubada> but it will be running xbmc
[04:27] <tjaalton> ok, try jockey-text then
[04:28] <fubada> ok
[04:29] <bjsnider> fubada, why use the blob on an x11-free server?
[04:30] <tjaalton> replied already ;)
[04:31] <bjsnider> still not sure it makes much sense
[04:32] <bjsnider> i wouldn't put anything by nvidia in a server
[04:33] <fubada> its not a real server, its just an ion2 box with 4tb of swraid
[04:33] <fubada> hooked up to my tv
[04:33] <fubada> a bunch of private torrents
[04:33] <fubada> and running xbmc
[04:33] <fubada> i just dont want the overhead of gdm, etc
[04:34] <fubada> for music/movies
[04:34] <bjsnider> oh, i kind of jumped to conclusions when you said server
[04:34] <bjsnider> just rtorrent i guess
[04:34] <fubada> transmission with a webui
[04:35] <bjsnider> ...
[06:27] <tjaalton> bryceh: btw, the patches are referenced in the changelog, just not with the name
[06:30] <bryceh> tjaalton, right 228* and 229* are not referenced in the changelog.
[06:30] <tjaalton> yeah, it's kinda silly to have numbers anyway
[06:31] <tjaalton> since there are huge gaps that mean nothing :)
[06:32] <bryceh> tjaalton, the patch names without the numbers aren't mentioned either :-P
[06:32] <tjaalton> right, but the context should be clear :)
[06:33] <bryceh> tjaalton, not to the emacs search function :-)
[06:33] <tjaalton> heh
[06:33] <tjaalton> right, names should be there
[06:34] <tjaalton> i just followed mlankhorst's lead! :)
[06:35] <bryceh> +1 to retaining patch names in changelog comments.  and +1 to context (moar context!)
[06:36] <tjaalton> thinking about adding new categories to patches/series, so it's more clear what are from upstream, what's never meant there etc
[06:36] <tjaalton> and drop the numbers
[06:36] <tjaalton> from our patches
[06:38] <bryceh> interesting thought.  I'm in favor of file naming consistency, but there's no technical reason why it needs to be a linear set of numbers
[06:39] <bryceh> having patches grouped together that are interdependent is a good idea, so they can be popped and pushed as a unit
[06:39] <tjaalton> right
[06:40] <tjaalton> and no need to review them again and again after rebasing to a new version
[06:40]  * bryceh nods
[06:40] <tjaalton> I might do it after this fix, it's a non-functional change but no need to rush it for the beta
[06:41] <bryceh> then the upstream cherrypicks could all be grouped at the top so they get applied first.  Would cut down on porting work.
[06:41] <tjaalton> yeah
[06:42] <tjaalton> although it could mean more churn in the distro patches :)
[06:42] <bryceh> non-functional but if you change the ordering (as you have to), you might have to rework a few patches
[06:42] <bryceh> yeah, a bit of churn but that'd happen anyway when we go to the next upstream version
[06:43] <tjaalton> right, but when backporting patches for a stable release..
[06:43] <tjaalton> though there should be no conflicts either way
[06:43] <mlankhorst> maybe do it for xorg 1.14?
[06:43] <bryceh> I suppose by the time we get to a perfect patch organizational system we'll be switching to wayland or whatnot
[06:43] <tjaalton> guess so :)
[06:43] <mlankhorst> unless you can show there is no diff before and after changing the patch order
[06:47] <bryceh> or maybe trim the numbers and do the easy recategorization now, and leave any tough patch reworks to 1.14?  Timo has a lot of patch-fu I bet he can pull it off.
[06:48] <tjaalton> I'll try it out, it's easy to see if it fails in horrible ways or not. don't think it should :)
[06:50] <tjaalton> I'll test this patch first tho..
[06:51] <mlankhorst> famous last words
[06:52] <mlankhorst> but.. back to fencing I suppose..
[06:56] <tjaalton> didn't crash, ship it
[07:00] <bryceh> http://www.bryceharrington.org/Arsenal/ubuntu-x-swat/Reports/totals-quantal-workqueue.svg
[07:01] <bryceh> first time we've had more -nouveau bugs than -intel
[07:01] <tjaalton> yeah it's in a bad shape
[07:01] <tjaalton> crashes in libexa etc
[07:02] <mlankhorst> I know, bit annoying too when upstream (darktama) doesn't respond :(
[07:02] <bryceh> yeah I can't get piglit to run on it without the gpu locking up
[07:02] <bryceh> and that's with 804.  with 802 in precise the kernel OOPSes
[07:04] <mlankhorst> :>
[07:04] <mlankhorst> the annoying part is the kernel rework is not complete yet so the maintainer is focusing on that..
[07:05] <bryceh> mlankhorst, in hindsight do you think we should have stuck with an older version before the rework started?
[07:05] <tjaalton> older version of?
[07:05] <mlankhorst> not going to matter, both were broken
[07:05] <tjaalton> the rework is in the kernel
[07:07] <bryceh> old version of whatever
[07:07] <mlankhorst> no it just needs some bugtracking love, we couldn't use the old ddx because of the exa changes
[07:07] <tjaalton> not really possible
[07:08] <bryceh> so, nothing really we could have done?  just chalk it up to poor maintainership.  Bummer.
[07:08] <tjaalton> hmm, wonder if patch 188 is breaking stuff now..
[07:09] <tjaalton> guess we can drop it with the hotplug stuff now in
[07:10] <tjaalton> and ask sabdfl to test :)
[07:10] <bryceh> tjaalton, regardless, it's not relevant if there is better hybrid support now
[07:10] <tjaalton> yeah I'm pretty sure the current code is good enough
[07:11] <tjaalton> and handles this case
[07:11] <bryceh> it was a pretty obvious bug when it happened
[07:12] <tjaalton> in the future, it would be great if the distro patches had a patch header :)
[07:12] <tjaalton> git log works most of the time
[07:12] <tjaalton> but it would be even easier to just look at the header
[07:13] <bryceh> this patch was from karmic, we were pretty fast and loose back then
[07:13] <tjaalton> hehe
[07:14] <bryceh> I've been trying to do the full git format patch stuff these days, when it's something I authored.  At least I always include a preface description.
[07:14] <mlankhorst> I think some headers might have been lost by my xorg codestyle rebase/update script
[07:14] <bryceh> doh
[07:14] <mlankhorst> personally, I prefer patches just have something in git log about them
[07:14] <mlankhorst> that's what the metadata is for..
[07:15] <tjaalton> ha, indeed..
[07:15]  * tjaalton spanks mlankhorst with a giant herring
[07:16] <tjaalton> http://dep.debian.net/deps/dep3/
[07:16] <tjaalton> also, git log ceases to work when they are renamed
[07:16] <mlankhorst> talk about overengineering..
[07:17] <tjaalton> well, it's usually enough to just have a from tag and a buglink
[07:17] <mlankhorst> Not really? git log will keep working..
[07:17] <mlankhorst> Unless you do a rewrite as well
[07:17] <bryceh> git log works ok for _us_
[07:17] <tjaalton> ok, not sure about that
[07:17] <tjaalton> yeah that's a good point
[07:18] <mlankhorst> git log --follow
[07:18] <bryceh> but for all our gitless co-workers, or users who only know about apt-get source, having a description in the patch itself can be a big boon
[07:18] <tjaalton> like ubuntu-release/sru folks
[07:18] <mlankhorst> seems to pick up on my debian/patches/series rename :-)
[07:19] <mlankhorst> but nowadays I tend to edit patches manually when updating..
[07:20] <tjaalton> quilt refresh shouldn't touch the headers
[07:20] <tjaalton> or dquilt if you have the alias
[07:21] <mlankhorst> nah I just set quilt to always assume I'm using debian
[07:23] <bryceh> hey, how do you check that a package is in NEW?  Is there a report for that?
[07:23] <bryceh> (trying to find nvidia-graphics-drivers-experimental-304 for precise-proposed)
[07:23] <tjaalton> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+queue
[07:24] <bryceh> aha bingo, thanks.
[07:29] <tjaalton> no drama after reorganizing the patches
[07:35] <bryceh> nice
[07:38] <bryceh> mlankhorst, I agree dep3 as a whole is overkill, but the concept is sound.  Basically the idea is to explain where the patch originated and what it does.  As long as that's clear, that's good, even if it's not dep3 compliant.
[07:38] <tjaalton> and usually it's enough to list from:, subject:, short description or a buglink, that's it
[07:39] <mlankhorst> so pretty much what we already do :p
[07:40] <tjaalton> yeah, when they are not stripped off on rebase :)
[07:41] <mlankhorst> I don't think there will be more 'change the entire X server coding style' patches, so it should be safe..
[07:47] <tjaalton> http://pastebin.com/BrDFnAt3
[07:47] <tjaalton> comments?
[07:48] <tjaalton> some offsets when patching, nothing more severe
[07:48] <tjaalton> not that many pure distro patches
[07:48] <mlankhorst> can you check if the source code before and after is exactly the same?
[07:48] <tjaalton> should be easy
[07:51] <bryceh> "waiting for review" -> "waiting for review by upstream" ?  Maybe including a ML url or bug # would facilitate following up?
[07:51] <tjaalton> took a git diff from both, diff'ing the diffs show no diff :)
[07:51] <tjaalton> yeah
[07:52] <bryceh> "from upstream, drop when rebasing"...  anything break if these are placed first instead of last?
[07:53] <tjaalton> well, I think it's easier to rebase a single backported commit than possible several earlier ones
[07:53] <tjaalton> usually they don't need any changes
[07:53] <tjaalton> than just a refresh maybe
[07:54] <bryceh> hmm
[07:55] <bryceh> well I'll remain open minded
[07:56] <mlankhorst> I just don't want to break things so as long as there is no diff I'm fine with it
[07:56] <tjaalton> is it more confusing to leave the numbers or not?
[07:57] <mlankhorst> renumber after you have the final sequence
[07:57] <tjaalton> no numbers anymore :)
[08:07] <bryceh> tjaalton, I think you're probably right to just drop the numbers
[08:07] <bryceh> I'm partial to having the numbers myself, but objectively I think the purpose they serve is largely lost with xserver
[08:16] <tjaalton> bryceh: yeah, it didn't really work out too well trying to use the numbers for different categories
[08:16] <tjaalton> that was my idea too :)
[08:16] <tjaalton> this should scale better
[09:10] <mlankhorst> we should do a better job at dropping unneeded crap in xorg-server though :)
[09:10] <tjaalton> sure
[09:10] <tjaalton> this should make it easier
[10:17] <ricotz> hi, why is there a need to call the package "nvidia-graphics-drivers-experimental-304" instead of just "nvidia-graphics-drivers-304"
[10:19] <ricotz> and uploading 304.51 is probably the better choice here
[10:35] <tjaalton> tseliot knows
[10:42] <tseliot> ricotz: because we're going to use that package for experimental drivers and yes, I know a newer release has been available since yesterday
[11:42] <tjaalton> and the new one seems somewhat broken
[11:43] <tjaalton> bug 1056052
[11:56] <ricotz> tseliot, i see, but including "experimental" and "304" doesnt make sense imo?
[12:44] <tseliot> ricotz: the technical board decided that for a reason
[12:45] <tseliot> ricotz: http://ubuntu.5.n6.nabble.com/Minutes-from-the-Technical-Board-meeting-2012-09-17-td4992536.html
[12:49] <ricotz> tseliot, alright, that makes sense
[16:43] <bryceh> ricotz, don't get hung up about it being 304, that's just being used to seed things with since we don't have a beta driver yet
[16:43] <bryceh> ricotz, in practice we'll only be shipping pre-release drivers in -experimental
[16:47] <ricotz> bryceh, yeah, that is why i was wondering. having "nvidia-graphics-drivers-experimental" and later "nvidia-graphics-drivers-304/ -306" seemed more logical, but it is fine since it was discussed
[19:41] <czajkowski> elo anyone able to help me, not sure if's a bug or something has happened, I am running 12.10, I close the lid of machine and i come back to it and go to use it again, the screen is black but lit and I can see the cursor but no login prompt
[19:43] <czajkowski> possibly this thinks laney https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/966744  but it's marked as not affecting 12.10
[19:44] <stgraber> I'm seeing something similar here though not limited to closing lid. For the past few days (3-4 days I think), whenever X shuts down the screen it seems to get stuck. When I get back to the machine, the screen turns back on but all I get is a blank screen with the mouse cursor
[19:45] <stgraber> for now my workaround is to disable the screensaver completely so the screen never turns off, but that's no really ideal ;)
[19:45] <stgraber> (intel hd4000 on an ivy bridge system)
[19:46] <stgraber> I confirmed that it's not gnome-screensaver (killed from another tty), it could be compiz (killing it gets me the wallpaper but nothing else) and I'm not seeing anything in dmesg so if it's kernel, it's not obvious
[19:46] <stgraber> oh, actually, I just noticed this in my X logfile:
[19:46] <stgraber> [  7657.397] (WW) intel(0): flip queue failed: Invalid argument
[19:46] <stgraber> [  7657.397] (WW) intel(0): Page flip failed: Invalid argument
[19:46] <czajkowski> tjaalton: you about ?
[19:50] <toabctl> czajkowski, stgraber i have the same issue here (i386, 00:02.1 Display controller: Intel Corporation Mobile 4 Series Chipset Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 07))
[19:56] <tjaalton> czajkowski: yes it's the same bug
[19:57] <czajkowski> tjaalton: yes but it's now saying it doesnt affect Q from your latest comment on the bug
[19:57] <tjaalton> no, i removed compiz from there
[19:59] <czajkowski> ah ok
[19:59] <czajkowski> wel that bug is a bit of a pita right now :/
[19:59] <czajkowski> although may disable my screensaver thanks to stgraber
[20:00] <tjaalton> and i have three intel laptops but can't reproduce it like others..
[20:01] <czajkowski> tjaalton: :/
[20:01] <czajkowski> tjaalton: you in the bluefin?
[20:02] <tjaalton> no, just FI :)
[20:03] <czajkowski> FI?
[20:04] <tjaalton> finland
[20:18] <czajkowski> ah right
[20:18] <czajkowski> well I cant send you my laptop
[20:19] <czajkowski> I need it for work
[20:19] <czajkowski> if I can do any debugging and let you know stuff please just ask
[20:22] <tjaalton> czajkowski: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/966744/comments/226
[20:23] <tjaalton> there are a couple of traces attached, but I'm not convinced they're ok..
[20:24] <tjaalton> so if it hangs on the first lid close, it should be easy to get a good one
[20:30] <tjaalton> also, boot with 'drm.debug=0xe' and attach dmesg output from the hang
[23:38] <bjsnider> tjaalton, you're located in finland?
[23:45] <bryceh> bjsnider, he is
[23:46] <bryceh> tjaalton, btw curious about your plan of attack for that bug?  Would it be worthwhile to post your directions on what you would do if you had the HW in front of you, so someone else that does have it could try those steps?


[16:36] <daker> cjohnston: mhall119 WIP http://i.imgur.com/tY2GZ.png
[16:51] <cjohnston> LOOKS NICE
[16:51] <cjohnston> ssorry
[16:51] <cjohnston> looks nice
[17:33] <cjohnston> nigelb: ping
[22:10] <TheDrums> I'm sure you've noticed that wiki/help/qa and some more friends are handing out the wrong cert for the domain?


[05:11] <kbmonkey_> morning Kilos
[05:12] <cold> eish
[05:12] <Kilos> hi kbmonkey_
[05:13] <kbmonkey_> ja it is cold hey
[05:13] <Kilos> often when i come to this window i gotta first tick the text block or it messes with my nick
[05:14] <Kilos> just looked outside. ice about 1/2 inch thick on sheeps water
[05:14] <kbmonkey_> wow!
[05:14] <kbmonkey_> I got tail
[05:14] <Kilos> lol ya
[05:17] <apie> that is better
[05:17] <apie> ook ook
[05:19] <Kilos> and no hot water
[05:19] <Kilos> cold water pipe to geyser frozen in the ceiling
[05:19] <Kilos> in the roof above ceiling
[05:19] <apie> eish, even the hot water pipe froze hey
[05:19] <apie> oh ja you just said, eish
[05:20] <Kilos> no man the cold to the geyser
[05:20] <apie> do you unfreeze it or los it to unfreeze itself
[05:20] <Kilos> must be winter here methinks
[05:21] <Kilos> its in the ceiling sdo we can just wait till ten or so for the sun to help out
[05:22] <Kilos> wow someone stole all my cart rails last night
[05:23] <apie> really?
[05:23] <apie> eish. want to come look around just now
[05:24] <apie> I ping server, 10 second intervals. timing lag, takes 60-90 seconds to move inventory or craft anything. so strange.
[05:25] <apie> wurst is waiting for chest to open and accidentally pushing escape :P
[05:27] <Kilos> weird. seems like i was on a map before cart rains, walked a few bends and twists and there they are again
[05:27] <Kilos> hi Private_User
[05:27] <Private_User> hi Kilos
[05:27] <Kilos> my chests open quick kb
[05:28] <Private_User> ?
[05:29] <Private_User> you lost me Kilos
[05:30] <Kilos> haha was telling kb but he now apie
[05:30] <Private_User> oh ok sorry
[05:30] <Private_User> hehe
[05:31] <Kilos> apie  rails gone again
[05:31] <Kilos> something corrupt there
[05:32] <apie> Kilos, lag.
[05:32] <apie> I see stuff like that all the time.
[05:32] <apie> makes me mad :(
[05:32] <Kilos> no man, lag cant remove rails and show everything else
[05:33] <Kilos> i see a massive kinda castle building that i havent see before too
[05:34] <Kilos> mazals house
[05:35] <apie> no it can. I read up on how the minetest core engine communicates it's data. and nodes get updated on an ad-hoc basis
[05:39] <apie> Kilos, http://kbmonkey.blinkenshell.org/#bPhone
[05:39] <Kilos> ya found them again
[05:39] <Kilos> eish
[05:40] <apie> which rails do you use? powered rail + brake rail?
[05:42] <Kilos> i have lotsa power in plain rails and brake at ends and copper to try keep cart from just stopping on its own
[05:42] <Kilos> i get tired of pushing
[05:45] <Kilos> lotsa banana facts
[05:45] <apie> you see the banana phone? ha ha.
[05:48] <ThatGraemeGuy> 'lo
[05:52] <apie> hi ThatGraemeGuy
[06:15] <Kilos> game just hung, you playing with tnt again ThatGraemeGuy
[06:17] <Kilos> locked in inventory and esc couldnt remove it grrr
[06:23] <apie> yar :(
[06:27] <Kilos> warning updatelistener invalid value
[06:27] <Kilos> whats that i get it lots
[06:57] <Kilos> explain  tome, when the game gets very slow, is it the server throttling us or the internet in between. how does one see that
[07:01] <apie> I am not sure Kilos, as I can ping the server with very fast reply time
[07:02] <Kilos> must be a way to find out thwere the prob is
[07:02] <apie> we should check firewall settings
[07:02] <apie> I think the game uses udp on port 30000. maybe something is interfering there
[07:02] <Kilos> ping doesnt give you the info from the game itself does it?
[07:03] <apie> nope
[07:03] <apie> it just tests the reply time
[07:03] <Kilos> so if thats quick then its the game itself holding back
[07:04] <apie> exactly that
[07:04] <Kilos> i dont understand how a server like that works. they must have lotsa peeps buying space right?
[07:05] <Kilos> so can they then throttle the cheaper versions so the big payers get better service?
[07:05] <Kilos> is the package speed related that is?
[07:06] <apie> yes it is related, but if that were the case then the fly and graeme would also have the same problem
[07:06] <Kilos> duh
[07:06] <Kilos> they are man
[07:06] <apie> they are?
[07:06] <Kilos> arent they?
[07:07] <Kilos> ThatGraemeGuy  tell man!
[07:08] <Kilos> so then apie if they arent then its the game itself where you set who gets throttled most
[07:08] <apie> a sheep walked into the water and drowned :p
[07:08] <Kilos> oi
[07:09] <apie> okay I picked up water in a bucket and timed with 10-second interval pings, it took 50 seconds to show in my inventory
[07:09] <apie> sometimes it is 30 seconds, sometimes 90
[07:09] <Kilos> see thats no good
[07:09] <Kilos> at times its instant
[07:09] <apie> no it is not, I made a lot of mistakes ha ha
[07:09] <apie> it is never instant
[07:09] <Kilos> consistancy is what counts
[07:10] <Kilos> man there were times when i move stuff in repo to work with a different tool or so and by the time im out it shows already
[07:11] <Kilos> other times it takes long
[07:13] <apie> repo?
[07:14] <Kilos> inventory man
[07:14] <Kilos> the thing where you choose what you wanna use
[07:14] <Kilos> crafter
[07:15] <apie> ah. why do you call it a repo?
[07:16] <apie> does it have all your packages? ha ha
[07:17] <apie> I go shower now, maybe have breakfast #3 ;)
[07:18] <Kilos> lol
[07:41] <ThatGraemeGuy> eh?
[07:44] <ThatGraemeGuy> work done, i'm off, have a good day all
[12:14] <Trixar_za> I got bored and built a huge tower. Even falling from it into deep water is fatal.
[12:14] <Trixar_za> Then I built a second shorter one
[12:14] <Trixar_za> :P
[12:14] <Trixar_za> Although technically they're pillars
[12:25] <Kilos> lol
[12:25] <Kilos> find lotsa food , eating heals you if you not totally dead
[12:26] <Kilos> apples bread rats and sheep
[14:05] <Kilos> Trixar_za  have you got ladders
[14:05] <Trixar_za> Nope
[14:06] <Kilos> cut trees and put them in centre bottom of the crater
[14:06] <Kilos> then you get wooden planks
[14:07] <Kilos> then put lotsa planks in centre bottom and make lotsa sticks
[14:08] <Kilos> then make ladders, then when you on top of a pillar you very short tap W so you can see over the edge then you build the ladders down while you hang onto it
[14:21] <charl_> hi smile|leren
[14:21] <charl_> you busy studying ?
[14:22] <smile|leren> charl_: yes :D
[14:23] <smile|leren> software analysis and modelling with UML
[14:23] <smile|leren> :p
[14:23] <charl_> very good
[14:23] <charl_> never used UML in pracitce, learned it at university though
[14:24] <charl_> 90% of what i learned at university i never ended up usingt
[14:24] <charl_> *using
[14:31] <Trixar_za> Oh, that's what it's called
[14:43] <superfly> why is it that every developer I met has said the same thing?
[14:44] <superfly> I've used some of the database design and one or two other things I learnt
[14:44] <superfly> the rest, also, uyseless
[14:44] <superfly> *useless
[14:59] <charl_> superfly: i see university as a "rite of passage"
[14:59] <charl_> not as a place where you actually learn anything
[15:56] <Kilos> afternoon guys, deep at 2022 06
[15:57] <Kilos> like 25 mins of climbing to see daylight again
[16:27] <Trixar_za> Le grrr
[16:28] <Trixar_za> I want something like http://trixarian.net/forum2/ but without the PHP 5.3 requirement
[16:28] <Trixar_za> And no Vanilla isn't an acceptable answer (the newest one is slow and bloated) :P
[17:03] <Kilos> hi Private_User
[17:07] <Kilos> Xethron  fix it
[17:14] <Kilos> Xethron  fix it
[17:24] <theblazehen> evening
[17:24] <magespawn> evening all
[17:24] <theblazehen> hey magespawn
[17:24] <Kilos> hi theblazehen  magespawn
[17:24] <theblazehen> hi Kilos
[17:26] <magespawn> how are things going?
[17:26] <magespawn> minetest -ing away
[17:26] <magespawn> ?
[17:26] <Kilos> apart from cold, good ty and you?
[17:26] <Kilos> reached -2022 today
[17:27] <Kilos> eish superfly  8+14°c for you but lotsa rain tonight and tomorrow
[17:29] <superfly> Trixar_za: Vanilla seems to be the best... it's the best of the all forum software I've come across
[17:29] <Kilos> wbb
[17:30] <Trixar_za> Probably - if it's configured well enough, it works pretty well. But much like most software, that rarely happens :P
[18:09] <superfly> btw, happy birthday ThatGraemeGuy!
[18:09] <ThatGraemeGuy> thanks :-)
[18:09] <ThatGraemeGuy> there better be a big cake at my semi-burned house
[18:12] <superfly> I'll see if I can organise something :-P
[18:12] <ThatGraemeGuy> lol
[18:38] <magespawn> happy birthday ThatGraemeGuy
[18:54] <Kilos> aha happy birthday ThatGraemeGuy
[18:55] <Kilos> night all. sleep tight
[19:09] <smile|leren> good night everyone
[19:09] <smile|leren> :)
[19:24] <magespawn> bed time for me too, good night all


 I strongly suggest you don't
[01:32] <IdleOne> it was disgusting, horrific in fact
[01:32] <bazhang> at least a kick, but whatever
[01:33] <IdleOne> be back in a bit
[07:14] <bazhang> "anal_christ" seems to be pushing it
[07:20] <lhavelund> no kidding
[08:34]  * mneptok waves from Istanbul
[08:45] <jussi> mneptok: cripes, they let you travel?   I didn't see them cursing up a storm.
[20:53] <Chaos2358> best for the channel? the channel is made and maintained to help people like myself who have done everything they know to do and need help not for someone to sit back and try to police. #ubuntu is general ubuntu channel. ubuntu software that uses ubuntus command line are relevant
[20:57] <Chaos2358> whatever dude. no i shouldn't have cussed him out but hell dude he deserved it. a ban from irc chat isnt the end of my world or life it will surelly make using ubuntu harder and probablly cause me to get rid of it but oh well. i'm a polite and respectfull person until i'm disrespected and thats not going to change just because i'm in a chat room.
[20:58] <Pici> I've already discussed it with c3l.  If you'd like to return tomorrow we can discuss removing your ban, but it isn't going to happen today.
[20:59] <Chaos2358> look man honestlly i could care less if you ever lift it. i'm just at that point all i wanted was an answer to one simple question and i still havent gotten who cares
[21:02] <Pici> Well, you aren't going to be able to get that from #ubuntu today.  ##linux may be able to help, but they have rules too.
[21:03] <Chaos2358> whatever man i'm just going back to win7
[21:05] <Pici> oh well.  I need to go afk anyway.
[21:05] <Pici> I don't know what the bots are doing, but their not setting +r, so, meh.
[21:12]  * Seeker` pokes gord_
[21:25] <Tm_T> ok, bots are all acting weird
[22:28] <gord_> oh, i have a tail
[22:28] <gord_> hello tail
[22:52] <jpds> http://divajutta.com/doctormo/report/ubuntu-community-team.svg
[22:53] <jpds> OK; we _have_ to do that for #ubuntu.
[22:54] <elky> ohgods
[22:57] <Seeker`> what is it?
[22:57] <jpds> Seeker`: I see that you don't read planet.u.c.
[22:59] <Seeker`> ewwwwwwwwwwwwwww, the shadowing on the post titles is vile
[22:59] <pleia2> wow, you really don't read planet, it's been like that for months :)
[23:00] <Seeker`> yeah, RL has been a bit non-conducive to reading planets