[09:05] <stefan`> hi guys - short question: does your "kwin_gles" start when you start your session in precise?
[09:05] <stefan`> it fails for me and i'm wondering if i'm doing something simple wrong or if i should file a bug
[09:26] <Riddell> stefan`: well are you using arm and gles?
[09:27] <stefan`> Riddell: i have an intel graphics chip, 64bit precise and use kwin_gles. i don't know if "kwin" would work, though.
[09:28] <Riddell> stefan`: self compiled?
[09:29] <stefan`> Riddel: no - official repos
[09:31] <Riddell> stefan`: from what package?
[09:34] <stefan`> Riddell: ii  kde-window-manager-common 4:4.7.97-0ubuntu1         K window manager (KWin) Common Files
[09:34] <stefan`> ii  kde-window-manager-gles   4:4.7.97-0ubuntu1         K window manager (KWin) - OpenGL ES binary
[09:35] <Riddell> stefan`: and that works fine starting manually?
[09:35] <stefan`> Riddell: sometimes.
[09:36] <stefan`> Riddell: i should probably upload my xsession_errors somewhere
[09:37] <Riddell> oh it's in universe that's why I don't see it
[09:40] <Riddell> well I don't know how kwin is ment to start, something in the startkde script but I'm not sure what, so I don't know how kwin_gles is supported to start
[09:40] <Riddell> supposed
[09:40] <Riddell> and mgraesslin is not here
[09:41] <stefan`> Riddell: ksmserver(1903) KSMServer::wmProcessChange: Window manager "kwin" failed to launch
[09:42] <Riddell> well it launching the non-gles kwin there isn't it?
[09:42] <Riddell> do you still have that installed and is there a reason it wouldn't work?
[09:42] <stefan`> Riddell: uhh... that could be :)
[09:42] <Riddell> you can set KDEWM manually to kwin_gles
[09:42] <Riddell> which is what would make the startkde script work
[09:43] <Riddell> but really there should be a mechanism for it to do that magically
[09:43] <stefan`> Riddell: ok - i will try that. kwin_gles is the only kwin installed
[09:44] <Riddell> ksmserver is what starts kwin
[09:44] <Riddell> so the question is has that been adapted to start kwin_gles if it exists
[09:46] <stefan`> Riddell: doesn't look like that to me
[09:46] <stefan`> Riddell: it tests if KDEWM is set and if not "makes sure that kwin is started"
[09:46] <stefan`> Riddell: quoting from a comment there
[09:48] <stefan`> Riddell: i export the KDEWM now in my bashrc - will test if that works.
[09:51] <stefan`> Riddell: it didn't help
[09:52] <stefan`> Riddell: at least it still didn't start automatically and i have the same error again in .xsession_errors
[10:01] <stefan`> Riddell: just tested: with normal kwin installed, things work as they should
[10:01] <stefan`> Riddell: will stick to that for now
[10:02] <Riddell> stefan`: do you even know if your X supported gles?
[10:04] <stefan`> Riddell: it worked for me in 11.10, so i assumed it would
[10:04] <stefan`> Riddell: and manyually starting it worked
[10:05] <Riddell> ksmserver might lack good support
[10:06] <Riddell> yeah doesn't mention it in the source
[10:07] <Riddell> stefan`: time to take this upstream, do you know how?
[10:08] <stefan`> Riddell: no, sorry
[10:08] <Riddell> stefan`: do you want to?  I can but I also have 50 other things to do so it might not be a priority
[10:09] <stefan`> Riddell: i'm happy to help
[10:09] <Riddell> stefan`: you can either ask mgrasslin when he appears on IRC in #kde-devel or ask on the plasma-devel mailing list
[10:09] <Riddell> ask if kwin_gles is supposed to start automatically if that is the only kwin installed
[10:10] <Riddell> because ksmserver doesn't seem to mention it in the source code
[10:10] <Riddell> then report back your findings :)
[10:10] <stefan`> Riddell: ok - i will ask him. thanks and i will :)
[10:55] <Riddell> cnd: did qt compile in your ppa?
[11:01] <Riddell> cnd: yes it did and I don't see any symbol changes but I think we'll let it compile on arm to be sure before upload
[11:08] <Riddell> shadeslayer: what's the state of kdevelop?  do you still expect to package kdevelop-php and kdevelop-custom-buildsystem ?
[12:08] <Riddell> damn calligra lnk error can't be recreated on amd64, will need a slow job on arm to find it
[12:43] <shadeslayer> Riddell: I intend to, just can't do it today, will finish it off tomorrow
[13:07] <Riddell> shadeslayer: cool thanks
[13:07] <Riddell> shadeslayer: cmake was good, uploaded
[13:47] <Riddell> oh thanks goodness I got the linker error to fix
[13:47] <Riddell> only took 2 hours
[14:18] <Riddell> Mamarok: are you still keeping an eye on kubuntu-users?  I sent reply which could be taken as being grumpy a while ago should I respond again?
[14:19]  * Mamarok checks
[14:20] <Mamarok> Riddell: you mean about the beta packages?
[14:33] <Riddell> Mamarok: mm I don't even remember
[14:33] <Riddell> yes very likely
[14:33] <Riddell> people were moaning that KDE was getting worse or something
[14:35] <Mamarok> yes, just let them moan, it's always the same 2 or 3 who do, some of them not even using Kubuntu
[14:35] <Mamarok> I don't think anybody is taking them seriously, they are so full of their own importance
[14:41] <Riddell> Mamarok: ok I'll do that, but let me know if there's anything I should respond to
[14:43] <Mamarok> OK, will do :)
[16:13] <Riddell> agateau: do you feel the need to test the new qt xi patch from cnd?
[16:14] <Riddell> it's in canonical-x ppa if you do
[16:14] <agateau> Riddell: I don't have any multitouch device here, so I don't think I can really test it
[16:14] <agateau> (assuming the patch is about multitouch)
[16:14] <Riddell> yes it is
[16:15] <Riddell> agateau: does unity-2d do multitouch?
[16:15] <agateau> Riddell: it does, at least to reveal the launcher
[16:16] <Riddell> agateau: who knows about that enough to test it?  (except for cnd, that's cheating)
[16:16] <cnd> Riddell, it will be rather hard right now
[16:16] <agateau> Riddell: I would say greyback (hi Gerry!)
[16:16] <cnd> precise doesn't have touchpad multitouch support yet
[16:17] <cnd> so it will have to be someone with a touchscreen
[16:17] <Riddell> cnd: oh ok we'll just upload and trust the testing you've done
[16:17] <Riddell> still waiting on arm compile
[16:17] <Riddell> which might take a while
[16:17] <cnd> Riddell, the plan was for us to pocket copy all the stuff when everything is ready
[16:18] <cnd> so please don't upload it yourself
[16:18] <Riddell> oh ok, you can just do that then
[16:18] <cnd> thanks
[16:18] <cnd> given how everything looks in the ppa, it looks like we'll be uploading as soon as qt is done building for arm anyways :)
[16:19] <greyback> Riddell: Testability can send gestures to a Qt application, so yep this can be tested
[16:20] <cnd> greyback, but can Testability send raw multitouch?
[16:20] <cnd> because this patch is merely hooking up the raw multitouch from XI 2 to the existing Qt touch and gesture plumbing
[16:21] <greyback> cnd: it's not raw multitouch
[16:22] <cnd> ok
[16:22] <greyback> cnd: I'm guessing it goes straight to Qt touch (not investigated it really)
[16:22] <cnd> it wouldn't hurt to have extra tests run on it, but I don't think we have any way to test the patch itself
[17:01] <ScottK> Anyone here running Kubuntu Oneiric?
[17:02] <ScottK> KDE SC 4.7.4 in oneiric-proposed needs testing.
[17:04] <Riddell> ScottK: tried the mailing list?
[17:04] <ScottK> I did.
[17:04] <Riddell> doesn't even need someone running it I guess, debootstrap and xnest would work
[17:04] <ScottK> kubuntu-devel anyway.
[17:04] <Riddell> just wish I had the bandwidth
[17:04] <ScottK> True.
[17:05] <ScottK> Mamarok: Would you be willing to send a call for testing for KDE SC 4.7.4 on kubuntu-users?
[17:05] <Riddell> ScottK: good thing I started using your arm boxes for calligra, I've found a bunch more arm issues
[17:05] <ScottK> Excellent.
[17:06] <Mamarok> ScottK: I will, yes. But why testing? Isn't it in the backports PPA since quite some time already?
[17:07] <ScottK> Mamarok: We need a test of the as built packages for the archive to get them into oneiric-updates for all users.
[17:07] <Riddell> needs testing again
[17:07] <ScottK> And then people need to comment in Bug #913928
[18:40] <yuriy> anybody run valgrind on a Qt/KDE application lately? I am getting thousands of errors just opening and closing my app
[18:40] <yuriy> a lot in fontconfig
[18:40] <ScottK> yuriy: Are you on oneiric?
[18:42] <yuriy> ScottK: yes. on Natty it produced a lot fewer bogus errors
[18:42] <ScottK> Could you install 4.7.4 from oneiric-proposed and test it?
[18:42] <ScottK> It might do better and I need help with SRU verification.
[18:42] <ScottK> If you try it, please comment in Bug #913928.
[18:50] <shadeslayer> Riddell: awesome, working on KDevelop now
[18:52] <yuriy> is there a proposed for universe too? it's complaining about qt4-qmlviewer requiring a specific version of qt
[18:58] <shadeslayer> yuriy: could you be more specific as to what the errors are?
[18:58] <shadeslayer> pastebin and/or steps to reproduce them
[19:00] <yuriy> shadeslayer: are you asking about the update or valgrind?
[19:00] <shadeslayer> valgrind
[19:02] <ScottK> yuriy: There's also a new version of qt4-qmlviewer in proposed.
[19:08] <yuriy> ok I was being a little silly. If I actually close the program it's about 100 errors instead of 600+.  But I still get a lot of the same ones
[19:08] <yuriy> shadeslayer: http://pastebin.com/t3vhdAxp
[19:11] <yuriy> ScottK: adding universe helped. anything in particular to check for with this update?
[19:11] <ScottK> yuriy: No, just general goodness and keep an eye out for any regressions, then comment in the bug.
[19:24] <shadeslayer> yuriy: okay, I see lost memory and illegal read/writes to memory
[19:24] <shadeslayer> yuriy: This is something that you wrote yourself or a KDE Program?
[19:26] <shadeslayer> also, printing/accessing uninitialized vars
[19:35] <Darkwing> Riddell, ScottK, apachelogger, neversfeld, JontheEchidna. There is a CC meeting on the 19th at 5pm UTC. We have been invited.
[19:35] <ScottK> Why?
[19:36]  * Darkwing shrugs
[19:36] <Darkwing> I'll attend for the Council in the Community Council meeting if you guys want.
[19:36] <Darkwing> I think out of the members I was elected for my Community stuff. :P:P
[19:39] <ScottK> I suspect it may have something to do with me objecting to Kubuntu being referred to as a "Derivative" the other day.
[19:39] <yuriy> shadeslayer: I know what the errors mean, but they are not in my code. It's initialization code in Qt and Fontconfig
[19:39] <Darkwing> ScottK: You want me to attend then report?
[19:39] <ScottK> I think things like Mint are a derivative, while things like Kubuntu that are co-developed in the Ubuntu project aren't.
[19:39] <ScottK> Darkwing: That'd be great.  I may be around too.
[19:40] <shadeslayer> yuriy: Uh okay, I'd say contact upstream since I doubt it's a packaging issue
[19:40] <ScottK> My preferred terms are sibling or flavor.
[19:40] <Darkwing> I prefer blue headed... nevermind.
[19:40]  * Darkwing grins
[19:40] <shadeslayer> hehehe
[19:41] <Darkwing> Yay... My hotel was confirmed for this weekend.
[19:41] <shadeslayer> grrrrr
[19:41] <Darkwing> Southern California Linux Expo. I'm doing my anti-SOPA rant this weekend.
[19:41] <ScottK> Darkwing: The fundamental language problem is that the term Ubuntu is overloaded.  It's Ubuntu the project, Ubuntu the distro (the whole archive), and Ubuntu the desktop (a set of packages installed from that archive).
[19:41] <shadeslayer> Can someone check if cmake is installable in a chroot?
[19:42] <Darkwing> ScottK: I agree 110%.
[19:42] <ScottK> Kubuntu is a sibling of Ubuntu the desktop.
[19:42] <ScottK> It is part of the Ubuntu archive and one flavor of the Ubuntu project.
[19:42] <Darkwing> It's Ubuntu with KDE instead of Gnome/Unity
[19:42] <Darkwing> That's really what it is.
[19:42] <ScottK> It's a bit more than that.
[19:43] <Darkwing> Yes.
[19:44] <Darkwing> But, it's more accurate then a Derivative.
[19:45] <shadeslayer> darn, looks like someone broke libxmlrpc-core-c3-dev
[19:54] <micahg> Darkwing: ScottK: the reason for the invite is here under Team catch-up: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
[19:54]  * Darkwing blinks
[19:55] <Darkwing> My question is... why do they suddenly care?
[19:55] <ScottK> micahg: It seems like the CC thinks KC is subordinate to it.
[19:55] <ScottK> It's actually not since it predates it.
[19:56] <micahg> ScottK: well, that might be part of it
[19:56] <ScottK> Dunno.  I find it odd that it says add yourself if you want a slot, but AFAIK, no on on KC added themselves.
[19:56] <Darkwing> I didn't do it.
[19:57] <ScottK> yuriy: Thanks for testing.
[19:57] <micahg> no, they signed up everyone for at least 1 go, I don't know if it'll continue past that
[20:00] <Darkwing> Team Reports? Heh.
[20:05] <shadeslayer> I'm not entirely sure what's happening, but, cmake wants libxmlrpc-core-c3, and I see libxmlrpc-core-c3 using apt-cache search libxmlrpc-core-c3, but when doing a search in the chroot, I can only see libxmlrpc-core-c3-0
[20:06] <shadeslayer> ( Everything is updated from the main server )
[20:07] <shadeslayer> libxmlrpc-core-c3 is the newer package I believe
[20:07] <yofel> are you sure the chroot is on precise?
[20:07] <shadeslayer> Yes
[20:07] <yofel> libxmlrpc-core-c3-0 is oneiric
[20:08] <yofel> apt cache in chroot too old?
[20:08] <shadeslayer> like I said, everything is updated
[20:10] <yofel> dunno then
[20:11] <shadeslayer> http://paste.kde.org/188546
[20:13] <yofel> no idea, works fine here in a precise pbuilder chroot
[20:14]  * shadeslayer looks again
[20:17] <shadeslayer> quassel is being ported to QML?
[20:17] <yofel> is it?
[20:18] <shadeslayer> Well, there has been no activity on master for quite some time
[20:18] <shadeslayer> and I just pulled and there was a new branch called QML
[20:18] <shadeslayer> last activity, 8 weeks ago
[20:18] <shadeslayer> also, fails to build
[20:26] <shadeslayer> Well, managed to make it build, doesn't *look* different
[20:29] <shadeslayer> yofel: https://twitter.com/#!/herpderpedia
[20:30] <yofel> yeah, sas the wikipedia redirect earlier today
[20:30] <yofel> *saw
[20:31]  * yofel wonders though what so*f*a stands for ^^
[20:32] <shadeslayer> hah :D
[20:35] <ScottK> shadeslayer: #quassel is probably a slightly better place to ask, but the upstream developers don't have a lot of time for it right now.
[20:38] <schnelle> ScottK: I don't know is this imortant, but on ubuntuforums one user is complaining about 4.7.4 from proposed: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1911205
[20:39] <schnelle> configuring printers doesn't work anymore
[20:40] <ScottK> It works here.
[20:42] <ScottK> schnelle: It is important.  Thanks for pointing it out.  It works for me both from systemsettings and from printer-applet.
[20:48] <shadeslayer> kdevelop-php uploaded to https://launchpad.net/~rohangarg/+archive/experimental
[20:48] <shadeslayer> so, all that's left is kdevelop-custom-buildsystem
[20:58] <ScottK> schnelle: Thanks for pointing it out.
[21:02] <schnelle> ScottK: glad to be part of the community :)
[21:02] <shadeslayer> tarballs up
[21:03] <ScottK> Good thing you're about done with kdevelop.
[21:03] <yofel> hehe
[21:03] <shadeslayer> ScottK: Actually ... kdevelop is the last package I can do ... I need to study for my last exam :P
[21:05] <shadeslayer> Well, I could help out a bit
[21:07] <shadeslayer> What do we do with tets that require X to be running?
[21:08] <schnelle> guys, I think you should consider gdebi-kde for default deb installer in precise. muon keeps failing to install some debs (some debs from kde-look, kernel debs etc) in oneiric
[21:09] <shadeslayer> schnelle: Could you elaborate? Fails? How?
[21:09] <schnelle> and jontheechidna is not responding to bug reports (seems he is very busy last months)
[21:10] <schnelle> shadeslayer: for example try to install this icon theme deb from kde-look: http://kde-look.org/content/show.php/H2O+Icon+Theme?content=127149
[21:11] <schnelle> muon will fail to install it. on other hand, gdebi-kde or konsole dpkg installs it without problems
[21:15] <shadeslayer> schnelle: downloading is going to take some time ;)
[21:17] <schnelle> shadeslayer: to be precise. muon package manager works okesh, muon updater works, but muon for installing (external) deb files fails very often (that was gdebi-kde's job before oneiric)
[21:17] <shadeslayer> I get it, but why is it failing, that needs to be investigated
[21:23] <ScottK> schnelle: I don't think your forums reporter has a 4.7.4 specific problem, but I'm trying to help him out.
[21:25] <shadeslayer> schnelle: hmm ... interesting
[21:25] <schnelle> ScottK: well if it works for you it's probably something else. I am already on 4.8rc2 so i cannot test it :(
[21:26] <schnelle> shadeslayer: it says "done" but in reallity package is not installed, isn't it?
[21:27] <shadeslayer> Nope
[21:27] <shadeslayer> And I get no debug output on my terminal as well
[21:29] <schnelle> here is the bug report: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=290510
[21:38] <shadeslayer> yofel: do you remember any kde packages have dep5 copyright formats?
[21:38] <yofel> kdeedu stuff should
[21:45] <shadeslayer> hmm ... can't find any GPL-3+ test
[21:45] <shadeslayer> *text
[21:46] <schnelle> shadeslayer: if you can bring to attention this muon problem to other kubuntu guys. it is present since oneiric and i think it musn't end up in next lts
[21:48] <micahg> shadeslayer: /usr/share/common-licenses/GPL-3?
[21:48] <shadeslayer> micahg: will that work when using the dep-5 format?
[21:48] <yofel> the short form will
[21:49] <yofel> just add the part where it says that it can be found in that file on debian systems
[21:49] <micahg> yeah, you're supposed to reference the long version on the system where it exists, idk offhand what the format is
[21:57] <shadeslayer> Could someone just check if everything is fine in this package ? https://launchpad.net/~rohangarg/+archive/experimental/+files/kdevelop-custom-buildsystem_1.2.1-0ubuntu1~ppa2.dsc
[21:57] <shadeslayer> And then KDevelop up for testing from : https://launchpad.net/~rohangarg/+archive/experimental/+packages
[22:06] <shadeslayer> I'm off to sleep, night :)
[23:40] <Riddell> Darkwing: "Team catch-up" is it?


[06:26] <geser> Unit193: "Uploaders" is only relevant to Debian, so you can ignore it when working on Ubuntu packages
[07:24] <dholbach> good morning
[10:04] <quadrispro> Unit193, if you'd like to be added to the Uploaders list, you are welcome to do it yourself, there is no strict rule to follow
[10:04] <quadrispro> Unit193, regarding LP's pkg-multimedia, that membership is to get access to team's PPA
[10:05] <quadrispro> except for that, there is no more particular benefits in being part of LP's team
[10:05] <quadrispro> Unit193, I should have the needed privileges to add you, if you like
[11:07] <Unit193> quadrispro: Ah, ok.  Thanks.


[09:37] <denlud> Hey Guys
[09:37] <denlud> Can somebody tell me why the Option CONFIG_MMC_UNSAFE_RESUME cant be set in new kernels? (4.0+)
[09:39] <denlud> I want to bind my sd card as /home, but then my laptop cant use suspend. The solution for people with an older kernel was this Option. Now it doesnt exist anymore.
[09:40] <apw> denlud, well from the name UNSAFE does not sound that positive
[09:40] <apw> denlud, did you have some kind of kernel command line override to enable that mode ?
[09:40] <denlud> It declares a SD Card as unremoveable.
[09:41] <denlud> Its only unsafe, if you change your sd cards.
[09:41] <ogra_> i think yoiu can enforce that from userspace somehow
[09:41] <amitk> denlud: that behaviour became the default IIRC from chatting to the MMC maintainer and so the option went away
[09:41] <apw> as being allowed to be, but ... does the option have an override to opt-in, otherwise that is a risky proposition
[09:42] <denlud> It becomes default?
[09:42] <denlud> But my /home isnt working after suspend....
[09:42] <apw>    - CONFIG_MMC_UNSAFE_RESUME=y is now default behavior
[09:42] <apw> cirtianly the changelogs imply the option became the default which fits amitk's memory
[09:42] <amitk> yes
[09:43] <amitk> denlud: and here is a line from his his weekly report to me:
[09:43] <amitk> * Submitted a new version of the patchset that makes MMC_UNSAFE_RESUME
[09:43] <amitk> default behaviour.
[09:43] <denlud> Ok, but it isnt working....
[09:44] <denlud> What should i try anymore....i already tried alot :(
[09:44] <amitk> denlud: try talk to ulfh on #linaro-kernel
[09:44] <ogra_> https://www.kernel.org/doc/menuconfig/drivers-mmc-core-Kconfig.html
[09:44] <ogra_> This option sets a default which can be overridden by the
[09:44] <ogra_> module parameter "removable=0" or "removable=1".
[09:45] <apw> i think that may no longer exist
[09:45] <ogra_> (now dont ask me how to set it if there is no module :P )
[09:45] <denlud> But that was my Question.....:D
[09:45] <ogra_> did you dig in sysfs ?
[09:46] <denlud> dig in sysfs? Sorry i am a Linux Beginner...
[09:47] <ogra_> find /sys -name '*removable*'
[09:47] <ogra_> check if there is anything mmc related
[09:48] <ogra_> aha ... so it seems there is a cmdline option:
[09:48] <ogra_> mmc_core.removable=0
[09:48] <ogra_> add that to youir kernel commandline
[09:49] <ogra_> and see if that fixes it
[09:49] <denlud> yes that could be the solution!!
[09:50] <denlud> If that fixes my Problem, i love you ogra_ :D You dont know what i already make to get my /home work...
[09:50] <apw> denlud, that option no longer exists in later kernels
[09:50] <apw> it was removed when the option was set to =y and removed
[09:50] <denlud> really?
[09:51] <apw> yes
[09:51] <ogra_> how mean
[09:51] <apw> not really, i think your sysfs thing is worth persuing
[09:51] <apw> as the kernel behaves different depending how the card is marked removable/not
[09:51] <apw> but the unsafe toggle for all cards is gone
[09:52] <apw> as many machines using it have two slots one inside which is not-removable and one outside which is
[09:52] <apw> so they need both semantics, different per card
[09:52] <apw> whether you can lie to the kernle and say your external card is "not-removable" less easy to tell
[09:52] <apw> on quick inspection
[09:52] <apw> it's you arm types who have made this this way :)
[09:53] <denlud> I dont get why my SD Card isnt working, and my internal space is working. They are both MMC's.
[09:53] <denlud> Oh ok, apw...
[09:53] <ogra_> ubuntu@localhost:~$ find /sys -name '*removable*'|grep mmcblk1
[09:53] <ogra_> find: ‘/sys/kernel/debug’/sys/devices/platform/soc/7864900.sdhci/mmc_host/mmc1/mmc1:1234/block/mmcblk1/removable
[09:53] <ogra_> so seems on systems with mmc i have such a sysfs node
[09:54] <denlud> dennis@Yoda:~/kernel/linux-source-4.4.0$  find /sys -name '*removable*'|grep mmcblk1
[09:54] <denlud> find: "/sys/kernel/debug"/sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:12.0/mmc_host/mmc2/mmc2:aaaa/block/mmcblk1/removable
[09:54] <denlud> : Keine Berechtigung
[09:54] <ogra_> find the equivalent on your system and make sure the content is "0"
[09:55] <ogra_> well, if mmcblk1 is your mmc device ... else your command needs to filter "mmcblk0"
[09:56] <denlud> my working mmc device is mmcblk0 (the internal space)
[09:56] <ogra_> so:  find /sys -name '*removable*'|grep mmcblk0
[09:56] <apw> shoving a card in mine it is marked non-removable ... so i'd kinda expect that work be ok
[09:56] <apw> would
[09:56] <apw> but perhaps that is a lie from my bios or something, hmmmm
[09:58] <denlud> find: "/sys/kernel/debug"/sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:12.0/mmc_host/mmc2/mmc2:aaaa/block/mmcblk1/removable
[09:58] <denlud> how can i lie to my kernel now, and say its non removeable?
[09:58] <denlud> I dont get it sorry...
[10:01] <ogra_> why do you look at mmcblk1 ?
[10:02] <ogra_> (you said above it is mmcblk0)
[10:03] <denlud> No, the already working mmc is mmcblk0
[10:03] <denlud> home "is" mmcblk1
[10:04] <apw> denlud, what sort of machine is this ...
[10:04] <denlud> Its a Lenovo 100s
[10:04] <denlud> and it only has 32Gb internal space. 14" version
[10:04] <apw> denlud, and is the mmcblk0 "inside" and mmcblk1 a removable slot ?
[10:04] <denlud> Yes.
[10:07] <apw> and when you s/r what happens to your card goes into error or something ?
[10:08] <denlud> https://forum.ubuntuusers.de/topic/sd-karte-home-wird-falsch-behandelt/
[10:08] <denlud> Here I posted all outputs.
[10:08] <denlud> Dont want to post It here, its very much...
[10:09] <apw> yep
[10:09] <apw> well on a cursory examination i cannot actually see a way to override the behaviour, it seems to be defined
[10:10] <apw> by the machine definition telling the slot whether it is removable, and if it is, it gets zapped on s/r
[10:10] <denlud> My second output I posted there was after suspend, when my /home isnt working anylonger. And the programs are already crashed
[10:11] <denlud> So I must try a flipping of the bios removeable bit?
[10:13] <apw> denlud, i am not sure you would even have such a setting, you might, but ...
[10:13] <apw> though the description implies the card should be handled as if the old UNSAFE is set, so i am not sure
[10:14] <apw> why this is not working as one would expect, i guess some later change
[10:14] <denlud> http://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/113202/can-i-mark-a-sd-card-as-permanent-storage
[10:15] <denlud> Oh, that is for apple. I thought if it would be for windows. I can install Windows. flipping the bit in the BIOS, install Linux and be happy.
[10:19] <denlud> Seems like I have to give my Laptop back...
[10:20] <denlud> Or should i try flipping the BIOS non removeable bit? pci0000:00/0000:00:12.0/mmc_host/mmc2/mmc2:aaaa/block/mmcblk1/removable
[10:23] <apw> denlud, i have no idea if that is even the right kind of bit as that is marked non-removable already ... right, it is 0
[10:25] <denlud> dennis@Yoda:~/kernel/linux-source-4.4.0$ cat /sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:12.0/mmc_host/mmc2/mmc2:aaaa/block/mmcblk1/removable
[10:25] <denlud> 0
[10:26] <apw> this descrption still says that the kernel should be behaving as it was with unsafe set, which should work
[10:26] <apw> ie the card should just be being s/r as well
[10:27] <denlud> You think the problem must be somewhere else?
[10:28] <apw> it feels like the card is not handling s/r well
[10:28] <apw> i wonder if i can confirm that here somehow ...
[10:30] <denlud> Can i send you a pastebin link, i make some orders after suspend. And there some I/O Errors I think.
[10:30] <denlud> *?
[10:31] <denlud> http://pastebin.com/FwzhraHt
[10:32] <denlud> This output is after suspend. Maybe you can take a look at it.
[10:33] <denlud> (At the moment when /home isnt working)
[10:36] <ogra_> because it becake readonly obviously
[10:36] <ogra_> *became
[10:38] <denlud> ...can I do something against that bevior?
[10:39] <apw> denlud, ok i just added an sd card in my external sd slot, which i believe is marked removable
[10:39] <apw> denlud, and after a s/r it is still there and working, no errors
[10:39] <apw> denlud, what kernel version are you using
[10:39] <denlud> I tried 4.2, 4.4.0-12 and 4.4.0-18 and 4.4.6
[10:40] <apw> so i am using 4.4.0-20 and it worked there for me, but i would expect -18 to be the same for mmc things
[10:40] <apw> so that for me suggests it is machine specific in some way, but i am not really sure what to suggest as mine works
[10:40] <apw> or at least not affecting everyeone
[10:42] <denlud> Maybe I try another SD Card
[10:42] <denlud> What datasystem are you using FAT?
[10:46] <apw> denlud, ext4, so something which cares if the media is ripped out
[10:48] <denlud> Ok, so i try another SD Card now and thats all i can try or?
[10:48] <apw> i am out of obvious ideas at this point
[10:49] <denlud> Ok, but thank you and ogra_ for your help.
[10:49] <denlud> And sorry for my english, I dont write in english very often.
[10:49] <apw> np
[10:49] <apw> your english is perfectly understandable
[13:04] <fg__> cking: any news about pkg-zfs/pkg-spl packaging repositories? the one at git://kernel.ubuntu.com/cking/pkg-zfs.git is still very much out of date, and the zfs user space source packages don't reference anything..
[13:05] <fg__> also are there any plans to include ZFS support in the ubuntu installer? couldn't find anything in the beta 2 iso that would allow me to setup zfs as root fs
[13:06] <cking> fg__, i will get onto that, just I'm buried in some other higher priority tasks at the moment
[13:06] <cking> fg__, no, it's not going to be supported in the 16.04 installer
[13:10] <fg__> I figured you would have other stuff on your plate with the nearing release, but figured asking would not hurt ;) thanks!
[13:16] <smb> apw, So fwiw I dug out an old aspire one that got mmc card reader and I neither can see any attempt (4.4.0-18) to eject the card and can suspend/resume even with an ext3 mounted and cd'ed into the path on a terminal window to keep it occupied
[13:28] <cpaelzer> Hi, I've analyzed bug 1570195 down to an issue in DPDK (not clear what it is exactly yet) and the kernel (can drive virtio into an infinite loop)
[13:28] <ubot5`> bug 1570195 in linux (Ubuntu) "Net tools cause kernel soft lockup after DPDK touched VirtIO-pci devices" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1570195
[13:29] <cpaelzer> smb: arges: ^^ the bug holds a lot of debug info, but I'll give you the tl;dr and ask you a few important questions for confirmation before I go out to the dpdk and kernel community
[13:30] <cpaelzer> the most important open question to me would be - "what would need to happen" in the virtio protocol/host/guest-implementation so that the loop at the end of virtnet_send_command becomes an infinite loop
[13:30] <cpaelzer> it seems the buffers never change/refill again - but that is my assumption
[13:30] <cpaelzer> look at this for the loop http://lxr.free-electrons.com/source/drivers/net/virtio_net.c#L1011
[13:31] <smb> cpaelzer, maybe you allow me/us a bit to read into the bug
[13:31] <cpaelzer> oh absolutely - I'm happy about a few more eyes trying to reinterpret
[13:31] <arges> yea what smb said : ) lots of data
[13:31] <cpaelzer> I might have diverged from the right way several times
[13:32] <smb> cpaelzer, There is rarely "the" right way anyway
[13:34] <arges> cpaelzer: without reading the entire bug, have you been able to eliminate any variables causing this bug? dpdk/ovs/virtio/multiqueue ; does it work with newer kernel version, etc
[13:35] <cpaelzer> yes
[13:35] <cpaelzer> ovs is out of the scope
[13:35] <cpaelzer> also dpdk doesn't need to run traffic, just initializing the devices is enough
[13:35] <cpaelzer> anything that goes through virtnet_send_command seems to block
[13:36] <arges> and upstream dpdk also fails with the same issue?
[13:36] <cpaelzer> I didn't check an upstream kernel yet, but can do that along you are reading this
[13:36] <smb> cpaelzer, with initializing you mean let the app grab the devices not bound to a linux driver
[13:36] <cpaelzer> smb: this is virtio - dpdk grabs the device even while bound with a linux driver
[13:36] <cpaelzer> that is part of the problem as it leaves it behind in a broken state
[13:37] <cpaelzer> arges: I can test upstream versions of both over the next hour and let you and the bug know - a good test for sure
[13:37] <cpaelzer> not that I would have seen anything in the dpdk commits, but one can never be sure
[13:38] <arges> cpaelzer: yup
[13:42] <smb> cpaelzer, Hm, imo that should not be possible and probably is the problem. While the virtio network driver is bound to the device dpdk should not be able to directly access it. But thats right now a high level opinion (without much research)
[13:42] <cpaelzer> smb: it does work and it is how the people use it
[13:42] <cpaelzer> smb: which doesn't counter your opinion at all - I wondered myself at first
[13:49] <cpaelzer> smb: I asked on the DPDK channel what the opinion of the DPDK Maintainers to that is
[13:49] <cpaelzer> e.g. do they epxect people to reinitialize devices ?
[13:50] <cpaelzer> or even not to use them while bound to virtio-pci in general (but what would the PMD driver be for then)
[13:56] <smb> cpaelzer, I could imagine that being bound there, though there is also the virtio bus involved and there the virtio-net driver. But with the whole stack set up I can imagine that virtio-net could make certain assumptions which may be messed up by something else touching the lower level protocol
[14:01] <cpaelzer> smb: thanks, that is like a +1 to my theory
[14:01] <cpaelzer> still in general we would like to protect the kernel by e.g. detect too much retries in that loop and bail out right?
[14:04] <cpaelzer> I'll later on once confirmed on latest upstream of kernel and dpdk send mails to their mailing lists
[14:04] <smb> cpaelzer, heh... well the question is a bit whether virtio protocol should ever be in the situation to have a loop. The answer from that side might be that should never happen so one needs to fix the loophole of getting there.
[14:04] <cpaelzer> IMHO the kernel should get a protection to return an error instead of hanging
[14:04] <cpaelzer> and DPDK should more clearly state to either not do it this way OR add something like "after you touched it it is broken, you need to reinit"
[14:05] <cpaelzer> smb: yeah, but so far I con only point at the end of the loophole and can't clearly say which part breaks it :-)
[14:06] <smb> If the virtio nic would behave like a physical one you would get an error when trying to access it without rebinding to some userspace io driver, wouldn't you
[14:06] <cpaelzer> smb: yes
[14:07] <cpaelzer> smb: also a lot of people ran into trouble by dpdk (by default) grabbing all virtio-pci devices (usually shutting your ssh connection down)
[14:07] <cpaelzer> unfortunately so far no one responded on the DPDK IRC chan
[14:07] <smb> cpaelzer, Oh I know...
[14:08] <cpaelzer> but if nothing gets back the mail will do
[14:08] <cpaelzer> you have to blacklist/whitelist things to go on with virto-pci
[14:08] <cpaelzer> ah you mean you ran into that smb?
[14:08] <smb> Yeah... not sure that was even with real hw and accidentally forgetting the blacklist ...
[14:09] <smb> back in 2.0
[14:10] <smb> at least some state of kiss your network connectivity good bye after trying what happens when I run testpmd...
[14:19] <cpaelzer> smb: ha - the dpdk maintainer responded
[14:19] <cpaelzer> smb: the admin is supposed to reinitialize
[14:19] <cpaelzer> known deficiency
[14:20] <cpaelzer> I'll submit patches for the docs of dpdk and our readme in packaging and our serverguid doc about it
[14:20] <cpaelzer> yet I think the kernel should protect itself in some way and will start the discussion on that later as well
[14:23] <smb> cpaelzer, yeah somehow it should be similar to real hw. I just cannot really say how this all should interact together...
[14:28] <cpaelzer> smb: there is a patch that it no more initializes when bound to virtio-pci
[14:29] <cpaelzer> smb: just discussing with the DPDK maintainer - I'll try to backport that
[14:29] <cpaelzer> that would mean a user would have to unbind it from virtio-pci before using it in dpdk
[14:29] <cpaelzer> and to use it in the normal linux world would have to rebind it
[14:29] <cpaelzer> that would reinitialize and all is good
[14:30] <smb> cpaelzer, I think that would make it behave "normal" so much better
[14:30] <cpaelzer> ack
[19:47] <jsalisbury> lamont, I pinged upstream regarding you bug again.  I cc'd you on the mail, so you can stay in the loop.
[19:48] <lamont> woot
[23:53] <denlud> Heey whats up?
[23:56] <denlud> I have a Problem with my diskspace, would be great if someone can i help me. I have downloaded to much porns, now my home memory is full. How can i expand it with an external drive?


[10:42] <jokerdino> hi dpm.
[10:42] <jokerdino> i just wanted to know when precise translations becomes the focus. :/
[10:47] <dpm> hi jokerdino, we want to open them today https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/Meetings/2011-12-07
[10:47] <jokerdino> Oh that is nice.
[10:48] <jokerdino> Can I attend the meeting then?
[10:52] <mainerror> I'm pretty sure that you are very welcome to attend the meeting.
[10:58] <dpm> for the record, everyone is welcome to attend translations meetings, but the one I was pointing out was last week
[11:10] <jokerdino> where is the meeting held usually?
[13:29] <scott-work> good morning community :)
[13:30] <jokerdino> hi :)
[13:32] <MrChrisDruif> Aloha scott-work
[13:32] <cjohnston> scott-work: is there a project for the ubuntu studio website
[13:34] <MrChrisDruif> cjohnston; how do you mean?
[13:35] <cjohnston> to file bugs against
[13:35] <MrChrisDruif> Ah, that I don't know.
[13:36] <MrChrisDruif> I only know about the meeting yesterday (it think)
[13:36] <scott-work> hi MrChrisDruif , jokerdino cjohnston i hope evertyone had a good weekend
[13:36] <cjohnston> :-)
[13:36] <jokerdino> just nice here :)
[13:36] <scott-work> cjohnston: yes there is, not really a "project" in launchpad but i am working with knome (xubuntu project lead) to develop a new site
[13:37] <cjohnston> scott-work: bug #776770
[13:37] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 776770 in ubuntustudio "dead link - ubuntustudio.org" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/776770
[13:37] <MrChrisDruif> Thanks scott-work =') It's been pretty good indeed =)
[13:38] <scott-work> cjohnston: that is interesting, we haven't done anything with the site at this point, my initial thoughts are that either the dns went down or something ineternal with canonical hosting is wrong
[13:38] <scott-work> but that's from march of this year....strange
[13:40] <scott-work> cjohnston: ooooh, just saw the background.png note, yeah, this is a known problem
[13:40] <scott-work> cjohnston: basically the code in bzr is (several!) versions older than what is on the site
[13:41] <scott-work> cjohnston: i believe we had tried to get IS (or whoever is responsible) to udpate this years ago
[13:41] <scott-work> cjohnston: but since we should be completely replacing the current website, we are not worrying about it at this point
[13:41] <cjohnston> ok
[13:41] <cjohnston> works for me..
[13:42] <scott-work> although we filed an RT ticket to get the new website staged months ago and haven't heard anything at this point
[13:42] <cjohnston> scott-work: if you could.. create a project for the website, where bugs can be filed, and link to that area in the footer
[13:42] <scott-work> cjohnston: there is now a website team, is that good enough, can we link bugs to the team?
[13:42] <scott-work> if a project is needed i can do that though
[13:42] <cjohnston> bugs cant be reported against teams
[13:42] <scott-work> cjohnston: right, i'll make a team later today then :)
[13:44] <cjohnston> ty
[14:32] <mhall119> jcastro: ping me when you're online
[14:33] <jcastro> hi!
[14:33] <mhall119> hey
[14:33] <mhall119> was wondering when you wanted to start doing our calls
[14:34] <jcastro> I was on holiday!
[14:34] <jcastro> We can start whenever you want
[14:34] <jcastro> we should start this week though probably
[14:35] <mhall119> I know you were, which is why I didn't ask last week
[14:35] <jcastro> got time today?
[14:35] <mhall119> yup, I have an ISD call in about 10 minutes, but I'm free after that
[14:35] <jcastro> I have a call with jono at 1, other than that I am free all day
[14:35] <jcastro> ok, that outta give me enough time to catch up
[14:36] <mhall119> ok, I'll get with you after mine and we'll work out a time
[14:36] <jcastro> \o/
[14:37] <mhall119> jcastro: how are you enjoying this Florida winter weather?
[14:37] <jcastro> awesome
[14:37] <jcastro> I enjoyed it all week
[14:37] <mhall119> it was nice earlier in the week, too wet now
[14:38] <jcastro> went to the palm beach zoo last week
[14:38] <jcastro> it was awesome
[14:38] <jcastro> lots of birds
[14:38] <mhall119> nice
[14:38] <mhall119> if you want to see an awesome zoo, Lowry Park in Tampa is fantastic
[14:39] <jcastro> I made a standing desk
[14:39] <jcastro> and my feet already hurt
[14:39] <jcastro> even after "practicing" for a few days
[14:39] <nigelb> jcastro: NO PAIN, NO GAIN!
[14:39] <nigelb> ;)
[14:40] <jcastro> heh yeah
[14:40] <mhall119> jcastro: get a bar stool
[14:40] <nigelb> mhall119: +1
[14:40] <AlanBell> and some pumps and optics
[14:40] <jcastro> nah, it's a good hurt, I'll tough it out.
[14:41] <jcastro> I've got some breaks planned throughout my day on my wife's desk
[14:41] <MrChrisDruif> =)
[16:31] <jcastro> mhall119: I can go whenevs
[16:31] <jono> dpm, setting up the hangout
[16:32] <mhall119> jcastro: on a call with the website team now, will ping you in a bit
[16:32] <jcastro> no worries!
[16:32] <dpm> jono, ok!
[16:35] <jono> dpm, invite sent
[16:36] <jokerdino> hanging out on?
[16:42] <jono> dpm, invite sent again
[16:42] <jono> sorry, my browser shut down, hence the delay
[16:51] <jcastro> hah!
[16:51] <jcastro> inbox 2 folks!
[16:58]  * nigelb subsribes jcastro to precise-changes :P
[17:01] <mhall119> jcastro: done, mumble or skype?
[17:01] <jcastro> ewwwww
[17:01] <jcastro> G+?
[17:01] <mhall119> sure
[17:02] <mhall119> I'm audio-only though
[17:02] <jcastro> cooh
[17:02] <mhall119> my only webcam is old
[17:02] <mhall119> very low res, everything has a yellow tint, and it makes it look like I'm still in my pajamas
[17:03] <popey> haha
[17:08] <jcastro> https://lists.launchpad.net/ayatana-dev/msg00356.html
[17:10] <jcastro> http://unity.ubuntu.com/getinvolved/
[17:12] <jcastro> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/Bitesize
[17:14] <jcastro> https://code.launchpad.net/unity
[17:22] <jcastro> https://code.launchpad.net/~unity-team/unity/trunk
[17:30] <jcastro> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/CodingStyle
[17:31] <jcastro> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=Unity_Architecture.pdf
[17:33] <jcastro> http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/unity-stats/
[17:47] <jono> scott-work, ping?
[17:52] <scott-work> hi jono
[17:52] <jono> hey
[17:52] <jono> pm
[17:54] <scott-work> sure
[17:54] <jcastro> mhall119: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-app-devel/2011-December/000047.html
[17:55] <scott-work> jono: are you there?
[18:30] <jcastro> <-- lunching
[18:39] <pangolin> Why wont the local pet stores take these kittens off my hands!!!!!!!!!
[18:53] <Pendulum> pangolin: I've never heard of a pet store taking kittens from a private person
[18:54] <Pendulum> around here they all have affiliations with shelters (it used to be they'd use kitten mills, but now they've all started working with shelters)
[18:54] <pangolin> Well the guy told me had he not had so many in "stock" he would have
[18:54] <Pendulum> huh
[18:55] <pangolin> I guess the rules are different up here
[18:55] <pangolin> I'll take care of them till I can find them good homes.
[18:59] <jcastro> jono: I'm all set!
[19:00] <jono> give me a few mins, just wrapping something
[19:00] <jcastro> \m/
[19:05] <jono> jcastro, invite sent
[19:06] <jcastro> I get a call error
[19:06] <jcastro> after seeing the back of your monitor for a minute
[19:06] <jono> weird
[19:06] <jono> yep, my cam is not working
[19:06] <jono> lets do Skype or phone
[21:08] <popey> anyone else on precise?
[21:08] <popey> bug 903401
[21:08] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 903401 in gnome-terminal "symbol lookup error: gnome-terminal: undefined symbol: vte_terminal_set_alternate_screen_scrol" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/903401
[21:10] <MrChrisDruif> popey; nope, still Oneiric...
[21:11] <MrChrisDruif> I should install it some time on some spare partition or something
[21:25] <AlanBell> popey: on a precise VM updated yesterday it works fine, I will update again
[21:49] <jcastro> <-- EOD in 10 minutes
[21:49] <jcastro> last call for alcohol!
[21:51] <cjohnston> i want some
[21:56] <MrChrisDruif> Me too
[22:03] <jcastro> jono: it pains me that you are close to SF
[22:03] <jcastro> http://www.993thefox.com/cc-common/mainheadlines3.html?feed=104703&article=9500429
[22:03] <jcastro> I would have like, camped out for that
[22:06] <JanC> isn't Metallica boring nowadays?  ;-)
[22:07] <JanC> I mean, planning a tour for economical reasons instead of musical reasons & such?  :P
[22:07]  * jcastro is reminded that he is not allowed to kill contributors
[22:09] <jono> jcastro, lol
[22:10] <JanC> jcastro: did they do anything interesting during the last 10 years or so?  (except if you are a shareholder in Metallica Inc.)
[22:10] <jcastro> all sorts of stuff
[22:10] <jcastro> except for the one bad album
[22:10] <jcastro> but we don't talk about it
[22:10]  * JanC didn't hear about any of the interesting stuff then  ;)
[22:13] <JanC> I heard Black Sabbath is going to tour again too...
[22:14] <JanC> and even release a new album
[22:14] <jcastro> \m/
[22:14] <jcastro> ozzy doesn't sound so good anymore
[22:14] <jcastro> might be time to hang it up
[22:15] <JanC> hehe
[22:19] <JanC> I think I haven't bought or seen any metal bands for years now...
[22:21] <JanC> I guess the last metal album i bought was from Pungent Stench (and I bought it for the lyrics)
[22:27] <czajkowski> huzzah thanks to Tom and Jon my login light theme now works, kinks in upstart needed to be belted out
[22:33] <JanC> czajkowski: belated response to a question fro mlast week or zo: yes, I r
[22:33] <JanC> czajkowski: belated response to a question fro mlast week or zo: yes, I requested a boot for Ubuntu at FOSDEM
[22:33] <JanC> hm
[22:34] <JanC> getting late => typos  :P
[23:05] <bkerensa> I feel like IRC & E-mail have already wound down for the Holiday
[23:05] <bkerensa> =/
[23:24] <jcastro> you are complaining about less mail?
[23:24] <jcastro> switch with me!
[23:25] <bkerensa> :D


[00:26] <Ahmuck> hi
[00:27] <Ahmuck> anybody notice the scaling issue with ubuntu ltsp & edubuntu and 8.04?
[00:27] <Ahmuck> i couldn't help but wonder if this is the same problem i'm having.  is ubuntu ltsp being tested anywhere?
[00:32] <Lns> Ahmuck: i've got plenty of 8.04 installs
[00:32] <Lns> you referring to the list post?
[00:47] <LaserJock> it seems to me generally that LTSP5 doesn't scale quite as well as LTSP4
[00:47] <LaserJock> but you gain a heck of a lot making the jump
[00:50] <Lns> scale past what # of clients? It's hard to say "X doesn't scale" because the hardware makes all the difference
[00:50] <Lns> (server/network hardware mostly)
[00:57] <johnb> Hello
[00:58] <johnb> I'm looking for some documentation I ran across the other day relating to adding flashplayer and       OO clipart
[00:58] <Lns> johnb: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/
[00:59] <johnb> thats it! thanks
[00:59] <Lns> np =)
[00:59] <Lns> damn i love that wiki
[01:01] <johnb> I'm really excited about the prospects of our upgraded LTSP
[01:02] <Lns> johnb: well keep involved with the community, we're growing all the time and are very active. we could use more peoples' input
[01:02]  * Lns waves goodnight to all
[01:20] <Ahmuck> Lns yes
[01:46] <LaserJock> Ahmuck: what do you mean by "is ubuntu ltsp being tested anywhere?" ?
[01:49] <stgraber> I usually have between 50 and 100 users on each appserver
[01:49] <stgraber> and several hundreds connections on the NBD
[01:49] <LaserJock> stgraber: are those full desktops with flash, java, etc.?
[01:49] <LaserJock> or just single use kind of things
[01:50] <stgraber> full desktop
[01:50] <LaserJock> stgraber: so do you think the issue is hardware related?
[01:50] <stgraber> for whole school districts so basically all K12, that's from gcompris to OO/inkscape/kdeedu
[01:51] <stgraber> LaserJock: yeah, usually good hardware really helps for X performances and you also need a good network
[01:51] <stgraber> flash is unfortunately really bad with LTSP but works fine as a localapp
[01:52] <stgraber> and you don't get that many users doing flash at the same time actually (5-6 on each server usually)
[01:53] <LaserJock> stgraber: the guy in the thread today seemed to have good hardware specs
[03:19] <Ahmuck> what proc?
[03:19] <Ahmuck> stgraber: what proc?
[03:22] <Ahmuck> i have decent hardware specs but i'm having issues as well
[03:23] <Ahmuck> my issues seem to be icon related.  to many icons, ie, pdf preview icons, folder icons, etc. and the desktop looses it's task bar and menu bars
[03:26] <LaserJock> huh, interesting
[03:26] <LaserJock> Ahmuck: like with how many clients?
[03:45] <stgraber> Ahmuck: either 2xDual Xeon or 1xQuad Xeon
[03:45] <stgraber> Ahmuck: though we're now getting some new blades with 2xQuad Xeon
[04:29] <LaserJock> so for the Universe app bundles Lns suggested ubuntu-edu-extras-*
[04:29] <LaserJock> anybody have other suggestions?
[04:29] <LaserJock> alkisg, Ahmuck , stgraber ^^
[04:34] <alkisg> Good morning all. Sorry, I'm not experienced enough to express an opinion in package naming... :)
[04:35] <stgraber> LaserJock: sounds good
[04:39] <LaserJock> alkisg: well, that's a good thing
[04:39] <LaserJock> alkisg: do you think you would know what ubuntu-edu-extras-preschool would be for?
[04:40] <alkisg> LaserJock: At first I didn't even get what "ubuntu-restricted-extras" meant...
[04:40] <LaserJock> ohhhh, good point actually
[04:41] <LaserJock> alkisg: do you think people might think it's like -restricted-extras (non-free stuff)?
[04:42] <alkisg> What will the bundles contain? Everything edu-related that is in universe?
[04:42] <LaserJock> not everything
[04:42] <LaserJock> it will be a subset of packages that we think are important and useful for educators
[04:43] <LaserJock> but they will all be from Universe
[04:49] <alkisg> !info compiz-fusion-plugins-extra
[04:49] <alkisg> !info gnome-accessibility-themes-extras
[04:50] <alkisg> OK, ubuntu-edu-extras-preschool or ubuntu-preschool-extras sounds good :)
[05:06] <alkisg> (or maybe ubuntu-edu-preschool-extras, with the "extras" going to the end, to match the other package names I see...)
[05:07] <alkisg> (in case an "ubuntu-edu-preschool-main" is also needed)
[05:15] <Meshezabeel> anyone know if there is a graphics channel on irc?
[05:16] <Meshezabeel> you there Ahmuck?
[05:17] <LaserJock> Meshezabeel: you might try #ubuntu-x
[05:21] <Meshezabeel> LaserJock, Sorry, I mean for images/drawings.
[05:22] <LaserJock> ohh
[05:22] <Meshezabeel> Do you think this image would scare away kids: http://imagebin.org/38675
[05:22] <Meshezabeel>  Basically I suck at artwork, but am making some language teaching software for kids, I just want something temporarily as a cute logo or something. Normally I cannot even draw a stick person, but I just played around in GIMP, and this came out, I wouldn't be able to do it again if I tried though.
[05:23] <LaserJock> Meshezabeel: it looks like a frog to me
[05:23] <LaserJock> Meshezabeel: you might want to try inkscape
[05:24] <LaserJock> I'm not an art person at all but I've been able to make decent icons with it
[05:25] <Meshezabeel> okay, thanks :)
[05:26] <Meshezabeel> I'll probably just use what I made for now, just wanted to make sure I wasn't givivg kids nightmares with a scary looking face.
[06:05] <Aly> Gah, it won't let me download plugins.
[06:15] <Meshezabeel> Thanks for coming Aly :)
[08:48] <morgs> LaserJock: pong, thanks for your reply to the mail
[08:49] <LaserJock> morgs: I don't think I had anything specific to ask you, just wanted to see how it was going
[08:50] <LaserJock> morgs: btw, I don't know if you saw, but I'm the motu-release delegate for Edubuntu
[08:50] <LaserJock> which includes Sugar
[08:50] <morgs> excellent
[08:50] <morgs> almost done with pre-feature freeze uploads, then I'll have a bunch of new-upstream-but-bugfix-only uploads coming
[08:50] <LaserJock> k
[08:51] <morgs> This abiword thing is a bit of a mess - I'll see if I can get a patch today. I'm only familiar with cdbs packaging at this stage, and abiword doesn't use that - resulting in a very complex debian/rules, and a different way to specify install locations
[08:52] <morgs> and it takes so long to build that it's hard to test - build - fail - test - build - fail :)
[18:05] <LaserJock> hi Lns
[18:05] <Lns> hey LaserJock =)
[18:05]  * Lns likes the warm greetings!
[18:05] <Lns> How's everyone in edubuntuland today
[18:10] <Meshezabeel> Doing well Lns, you?
[18:12] <Lns> Meshezabeel: I'm doing well, as well
[18:18] <Meshezabeel> Well, well, that's swell.
[18:19] <Lns> lol
[18:20] <Meshezabeel> :)
[18:27] <more> Hello all.
[18:27] <Meshezabeel> The more the merrier.
[18:27] <Guest59923> I was in the other day with the dell that had the nad NIC as my server.
[18:28] <morehpperliter> Sweet.
[18:28] <morehpperliter> So anywho.
[18:28] <Meshezabeel> still didn't get it working?
[18:29] <morehpperliter> All the machines see the sever and all is well I was just curious if there was Docs around about setting up the clients.
[18:29] <morehpperliter> Not sure how to limit them.
[18:29] <morehpperliter> How to give them certain apps and limiting their browsing.
[18:29] <morehpperliter> It's for a public library.
[18:29] <morehpperliter> Well. Three total.
[18:30] <Meshezabeel> clients are server are ubuntu?
[18:30] <morehpperliter> Server is edubuntu.
[18:30] <morehpperliter> Clients boot PXE.
[18:30] <Meshezabeel> so server is acting as a terminal server?
[18:31] <morehpperliter> I suppose.
[18:31] <morehpperliter> Are the different desktops for "Clients" controlled by their logins?
[18:32] <Meshezabeel> I am not 100% sure how to do this, but you can search for something like: Ubuntu kiosk
[18:32] <Lns> morehpperliter: the first thing you want to do is remove any unneeded apps..if they're not available, people can't use them
[18:33] <morehpperliter> remove them from server?
[18:33] <Lns> and yeah, like Meshezabeel said, you might want to look into using kiosk type setups instead to really limit everything
[18:33] <Lns> you can also lock down gnome (if that's what you're using) with gconf - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/GnomeOptimize
[18:33] <Meshezabeel> as for browsing you might want something like dansgardian
[18:34] <morehpperliter> So. can I have some clients running one thing nad others running something else?
[18:34] <morehpperliter> Like some in Kiosk mode and some in desktop?
[18:35] <Lns> i'd have to assume that's possible somehow
[18:35] <morehpperliter> not common or easy?
[18:36] <Meshezabeel> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EdubuntuFAQ#Can%20I%20have%20some%20of%20my%20thin%20clients%20work%20as%20anonymous%20web%20kiosks?
[18:37] <Meshezabeel> I've never set up an ltsp server before, so is over my head :)
[18:39] <morehpperliter> *lol*
[18:39] <morehpperliter> Isn't this edubuntu?
[18:40] <Meshezabeel> isn't what edubuntu?
[18:42] <Meshezabeel> edubuntu (as with all linux distros) can be installed on single machines without being a terminal server
[19:01] <morehpperliter> Oh?
[19:01] <morehpperliter> I thought it was tls
[19:01] <morehpperliter> I thought it was tlsp only.
[19:03] <ogra> edubuntu is a set of educational and teaching applications on top of ubuntu
[19:03] <ogra> ubuntu comes with ltsp out of the box, not related to edubuntu
[19:08] <morehpperliter> gotcha
[19:09] <Meshezabeel> and just because it has ltsp, does not mean you are required to use it :)
[19:11] <Meshezabeel> Of course, it is a very useful feature that greatly eases administration and allows you to use substandard clients.
[19:27] <Lns> morehpperliter: edubuntu used to have ltsp integration, and was promoted as 'the' ltsp distro for a while..but ltsp evolved into ubuntu itself and edubuntu re-focussed on educational apps outside of ltsp
[19:28] <Lns> it's been a long, windy road so far =)
[19:36] <ogra> nah :)
[19:36] <ogra> it was a smooth ride :)
[19:36] <ogra> edubuntu used to be the testbed for ltsp5 when i worked on it
[19:37] <ogra> when it was advanced enough it simply made its way into ubuntu
[19:38] <morgs> LaserJock: I think I fixed the libabiword issue - I posted a debdiff on bug 320440
[19:39] <LaserJock> morgs: good work
[19:44] <LaserJock> morgs: how much have you tested that?
[21:05] <Aly> Can someone help?
[21:18] <morehpperliter> whats the problem?
[21:18] <morehpperliter> I'm a newb myself.
[21:18] <Meshezabeel> Aly is gone
[21:19] <Meshezabeel> Aly likes to come into the channel, say something, and leave a few seconds later.
[21:26] <morehpperliter> *lol* interestin.
[22:12] <morehpperliter> Then, configure the DHCP server (/etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf) to tell those thin clients to use the kiosk root by typing:
[22:12] <morehpperliter> Does that make ALL the clients operate in kiosk mode?
[22:13] <Meshezabeel> I think there might be some info missing on that instruction page.
[22:16] <morehpperliter> On alot of pages...
 Check our documentation.
 Or bother the IRC channel
[22:49] <morehpperliter> I'm out
[22:49] <morehpperliter> exit


[03:59] <zul> hey
[03:59] <zul> jbailey: ping
[06:16] <fabbione> morning
[06:17] <lamont> fabbione: so how's your current thinking on 3.3 for the kernel?
[06:17] <fabbione> lamont: i am more and more convince to roll back to 3.3
[06:17] <fabbione> but we can't for ppc64
[06:18] <lamont> hppa needs gcc-3.4 as well
[06:18] <fabbione> so we need 3.4 for hppa and ppc64
[06:18] <lamont> (since there is no gcc-3.3 in the archive for hppa....)
[06:18] <fabbione> i386 can handle
[06:18] <fabbione> amd64 seems ok
[06:18] <lamont> ia64 would kind of like 3.3, at least for a test build...
[06:18] <fabbione> the only one that needs 3.3 seems to be ia64 right?
[06:18] <lamont> which I'll wind up really doing tomorrow
[06:19] <fabbione> ok
[06:19] <fabbione> does hppa boot with 3.4?
[06:20] <lamont> OTOH, if we assume that there will be another kernel upload for ia64, and we further assume that lamont is lazy, then if there was an excuse to upload a new kernel in the next several hours, it'd be really nice if it (a) switched ia64 to 3.3, and (b) overrode the abi change that almost certainly causes
[06:20] <lamont> yes
[06:20] <lamont> well, last I checked
[06:20] <lamont> 2.6.12-1-hppa64
[06:20] <lamont> and the other buildd is even more new
[06:21] <lamont> gcc-4.0/hppa is in the dh_builddep maze!!!
[06:21] <lamont> doko: dh_movefiles: Compatibility levels before 3 are deprecated.
[06:21] <fabbione> yeah i told him already
[06:21] <lamont> hehe
[06:22] <lamont> coolness.  all of my packages are at 3 or 4.
[06:23] <fabbione> so are mine :)
[06:27] <fabbione> coolness! f11 is back online
[06:28] <fabbione> for the first time i can pretest/build all 6 arches
[06:29] <fabbione> lamont: dunno if you are looking at baz anymore, but i did a huge rework of the udebs
[06:29] <lamont> haven't looked at baz in a bit..
[06:30] <fabbione> ok
[06:30] <fabbione> i won't manage to realling the configs for breezy... tough
[06:30] <fabbione> that will be the first step for breezy+1
[06:30] <lamont> realign, you mean?
[06:31] <fabbione> like CONFIG_PREEMPT enabled on some arches and not others?
[06:31] <lamont> right
[06:31] <fabbione> afaik HPPA has PCI, but doesn't build a lot of drivers...
[06:31] <fabbione> stuff like that
[06:31] <lamont> well, more pedantically, many of the PCI drivers for generic cards don't work on hppa.  maybe... (really don't know)
[06:32] <fabbione> wee if nobody builds them we will never know and get them fixed..
[06:32] <infinity> fabbione : Where are you currently enabling preempt?
[06:32] <infinity> fabbione : My last spin of preempt on my powerpc machine resulted in random spectacular oopses and panics.
[06:33] <fabbione> infinity: i386, ppc64, ia64
[06:33] <fabbione> all the others are unset
[06:34] <infinity> Is davis running a ppc64 kernel with preempt right now?
[06:34] <lamont> Built successfully
[06:34] <lamont> Purging chroot-breezy/build/buildd/gcc-4.0-4.0.1
[06:34] <lamont> !!!!!!
[06:34] <fabbione> infinity: yes
[06:34] <fabbione> YAY
[06:34] <infinity> fabbione : Ahh, good, then that seems like an adequate test for ppc64. :)
[06:35] <fabbione> infinity: PPC + PREEMEPT needs SMP
[06:35] <fabbione> that
[06:35] <fabbione> that's what i was told
[06:35] <infinity> fabbione : I'll just warn you now that it seems hideously broken on ppc32 and if you enable it, you'll be in for a world of hurt.
[06:35] <fabbione> it's not..
[06:35] <infinity> Hrm.  Or, it needs SMP.  I guess that makes sens, since preempt just reuses SMP spinlocks.
[06:35] <fabbione> i wonder why it's not enabled on amd64 at all
[06:35] <infinity> (THough, I thought there had been work years ago to abstract that, so they were independant of each other)
[06:36] <fabbione> or we can just disable it everywhere
[06:36] <fabbione> that would make me even more happy
[06:36] <infinity> Me too, TBH.
[06:36] <fabbione> given that GFS isn't exactly PREEMPT safe
[06:37] <infinity> PREEMPT is still one of those "play with it yourself if you're smart enough to compile your own kernel and break your own machine" things, IMO.
[06:38] <infinity> Also, bed for real now.
[06:39] <fabbione> config PREEMPT
[06:39] <fabbione>           Say Y here if you are building a kernel for a desktop, embedded
[06:39] <fabbione>           or real-time system.  Say N if you are unsure.
[06:39] <fabbione> well we are distributing a server, aren't we?
[06:40] <fabbione> or did i misundertood something about Ubuntu? ;)
[06:43] <fabbione> night lamont
[06:47] <fabbione> PREEMPT is gone
[08:32] <fabbione> hey JaneW
[08:34] <JaneW> hi
[09:26] <fabbione> JaneW: i need a name :)
[09:26] <fabbione> something really sexy or totally weird..
[09:26] <fabbione> no nuts this time :)
[09:29] <JaneW> fabbione: no problemo
[09:30] <JaneW> Whooping	Wholewheat
[09:31] <fabbione> oky :)
[09:31] <fabbione> thanks
[01:34] <zul> hey
[01:34] <fabbione> hey zul
[01:35] <zul> hey fabbione
[01:58] <fabbione> ok... 4.4 on the way
[02:28] <zul> jbailey: you around?
[02:31] <fabbione> zul: hey
[02:31] <fabbione> he is at OLS
[02:35] <zul> yeah i wanted to go hang out after work
[02:36] <fabbione> zul: it's easier if you hook up on ofct #parisc
[02:36] <fabbione> there are the people that share the room with him there
[02:39] <zul> okie dokie
[02:40] <zul> fabbione: no more extra drivers or is it still ok?
[02:40] <fabbione> zul: it depends
[02:40] <fabbione> i am being a bit close on accepting stuff
[02:40] <zul> i was thinking speakup
[02:40] <fabbione> but it really depends what it is
[02:40] <fabbione> hmmmm HMMMMM
[02:41] <fabbione> zul: i would be more happy go get the acerhk back
[02:41] <zul> since im going back to development this weekend for sure
[02:41] <fabbione> you removed it because it was apparently unmaintained
[02:41] <fabbione> but it is
[02:41] <zul> i think there might be a more of demand for speakup though
[02:41] <zul> i read it on the website it wasnt maybe i misread it
[02:41] <fabbione> yeah the website is crpa
[02:41] <fabbione> cra
[02:41] <fabbione> CRAP
[02:51] <zul> besides i think its on breezy's roadmap
[02:54] <fabbione> nobody bothered to ask us
[02:55] <zul> yeah...uh...whatshisname
[02:56] <zul> damn it
[02:59] <zul> heh...i can check the logs and prove it ;)
[03:19] <fabbione> zul, chmj: a very simple task for all of you
[03:20] <fabbione> closing the bugs in bugzilla with the latest upload?
[03:23] <chmj> erm, just closing ?
[03:23] <fabbione> chmj: see the kernel changelog...
[03:23] <fabbione> for 4.4
[03:23] <fabbione> there are a bunch of bug closers
[03:23] <fabbione> pick these bugs and bugzilla -> resolved+fixed with a note that has been in done in kernel 2.6.12-4.4
[03:24] <fabbione> nothing too fancy...
[03:24] <fabbione> i am just too tired to fight with bugzilla
[03:28] <zul> slacker..:)
[04:06] <lamont> fabbione: linux-source-2.6.12_2.6.12-4.4 is near the top of the queue for hppa.  I guess that's a good thing... :_)
[04:06] <lamont> fabbione: can't just do edit many?
[04:07] <lamont> or you're _that_ tired??
[04:08] <jbailey> zul: Am around now.
[04:22] <zul> im off around 4 today and am getting downtown around 5:30ish what are you up to around that time
[04:36] <fabbione> re
[05:17] <mjg59> Wurgh.
[05:18] <mjg59> fabbione: I'll need to send you a patch for that before too long
[05:18] <fabbione> mjg59: ok...
[05:19] <fabbione> too bad i just uploaded a kernel today
[05:19] <mjg59> Yeah, it's not urgent
[05:42] <jbailey> fabbione: Ooo.  New kernel?/  Perhaps it will unbreak my acpi...
[06:09] <zul> ah sweet...im being sent hardware


[05:09] <mirespace> good morning
[06:04] <utkarsh2102> mirespace: that's an early morning for you today :)
[06:05] <mirespace> utkarsh2012: totally agree :)
[06:06] <utkarsh2102> hehe
[06:06] <mirespace> ups, I discountes one hundred from your nickname
[06:06] <mirespace> *discounted
[06:06] <mirespace> my maths are not good at the morning either :D
[06:08] <utkarsh2102> ahahaha
[06:09] <utkarsh2102> it's a date, 21st Feb -> 21/02 -> 2102 :)
[06:13] <mirespace> it's your birthday!
[06:22] <utkarsh2102> haha, yep!
[11:02] <rbasak> utkarsh2102: happy belated birthday!
[11:54] <ahasenack> morning
[13:54] <ahasenack> rbasak: hi, you have a good eye, I would appreciate a glance at https://code.launchpad.net/~ahasenack/ubuntu/+source/nfs-utils/+git/nfs-utils/+merge/416397
[13:54] <ahasenack> doesn't have to be a full review, just take a look, do a smell test
[13:54] <ahasenack> leave your opinion, etc
[15:47] <Comnenus> sarnold: do you know if it's possible to create a custom storage layout in maas?  I'm not finding much on this.  I was hoping to make a storage layout and set it as the default.
[16:05] <mircsicz>  Hi all, I've got an issue while setting up rsyslog to receive messages from remote hosts. I'm on 20.04.3 and added the following lines to rsyslog.conf: https://paste.debian.net/1233004/
[16:06] <mircsicz> Problem is the logs from remote still show up in syslog and this: Mar  4 16:01:30 loghub-bc-01 rsyslogd: error during config processing: omfile: creating parent directories for file  '/var/log/loghub/2022/s3stor-mon-03-2022-03-04.log' failed: Permission denied [v8.2001.0 try https://www.rsyslog.com/e/2207 ]
[16:06] <mircsicz> Mar  4 16:01:30 loghub-bc-01 rsyslogd: error during config processing: Could not open dynamic file '/var/log/loghub/2022/s3stor-mon-03-2022-03-04.log' [state-3000] - discarding message [v8.2001.0 try https://www.rsyslog.com/e/2207 ]
[16:07] <mircsicz> I've had all that in a seperate file but to remove clutter and have it in first prio I've (as written above) already moved into rsyslog.conf
[16:07] <ahasenack> I think you need a stop rule if you want the messages to not go anywhere else after that
[16:08] <ahasenack> re perm denied, rsyslog doesn't seem to have permissions to create the file or directories up to it
[16:08] <ahasenack> in ubuntu, rsyslog does not run as root
[16:12] <mircsicz> ahasenack I just added "& ~" after the template and that works...
[16:12] <ahasenack> yes, the ~ is a stop
[16:12] <ahasenack> I prefer to try to use the more explicit config language in rsyslog when possible
[16:13] <ahasenack> with {} blocks, and then "stop" is literal
[16:14] <mircsicz> ahasenack I've already checked permissions and apparmor (which seems to not have the Profile for rsyslogd loaded) and permissions seem to be good: https://paste.debian.net/1232977/
[16:15] <ahasenack> missing x in logbug, or is that in the acl?
[16:15] <ahasenack> loghub
[16:17] <mirespace> :wqwdawdçq
[16:17] <mirespace> sdv
[16:20] <mircsicz> ahasenack damnit THX for stumbing my nose into that pile so sh.. :-(
[16:20] <ahasenack> just bouncing ideas off somebody else, second pair of eyes, etc :)
[16:20] <ahasenack> fresh look
[16:21] <mircsicz> ahasenack But that was it THX a ton 8-)
[16:21] <ahasenack> np :)
[16:23] <oerheks> !cookie | ahasenack
[16:33] <mirespace>  mmm... it seems I was blaming vim in the wrong window :$
[19:56] <sarnold> Comnenus: sorry, I don't know a whole lot about maas :( -- there's a #maas channel, have you found it yet? is anyone there or is it all idlers? heh
[21:24] <Comnenus> sarnold: probably idlers but it's worth a shot.
[22:48] <giu-> hi