[00:00] <minimal> Olivier67: that depends on your user-data contents
[00:00] <minimal> did you specify "chpasswd:" in your user-data?
[00:02] <minimal> if you want ssh-key based login for users then you need to specify the key(s) to use via "ssh_authorized_keys:" in either the "users:" section or globally
[06:53] <Olivier67> no for the moment , I just want to have auth by password , I will introduce SSH after
[06:53] <Olivier67> here is an example of my user-data
[06:53] <Olivier67> users:
[06:53] <Olivier67>   - name: user1
[06:53] <Olivier67>     plain_text_passwd: Pass4Labo
[06:53] <Olivier67>     #password: $6$qra9xrGVdH$aGNC14yvGe4Po3M9WodfVpQt76GE/KmUvCT0/78qH0odS1WlgpcVg0vSnG45ByBXL2Dwn9AoALJpIU8rSgQ44/
[06:53] <Olivier67>     groups: sudo
[06:53] <Olivier67>     shell: /bin/bash
[06:53] <Olivier67>   - name: user2
[06:53] <Olivier67>     #plain_text_passwd: Pass4Labo
[06:53] <Olivier67>     passwd: $6$qra9xrGVdH$aGNC14yvGe4Po3M9WodfVpQt76GE/KmUvCT0/78qH0odS1WlgpcVg0vSnG45ByBXL2Dwn9AoALJpIU8rSgQ44/
[06:53] <Olivier67>     groups: sudo
[06:53] <Olivier67>     shell: /bin/bash
[06:54] <Olivier67> I have also tried with hash_passwd
[13:28] <minimal> Olivier67: for each user entry add "lock_passwd: false" as this defaults to true (so disabling password-based logins)
[13:28] <minimal> this is indicated in the users section of the docs: https://cloudinit.readthedocs.io/en/latest/topics/modules.html#users-and-groups
[13:29] <minimal> and what you observed in the logs confirms this: "running command [ 'passwd' , '-l', 'user']"
[19:39] <ryland> blackboxsw, holmanb sorry about the late reply, was already out of the office. I have updated the gist at https://gist.github.com/jbfriedrich/348e988ba26a5a8631d7b33395a0ca90. Right now I think that the issue lies with Cloud Init


[00:05] <Staticwave_Ace> good question, documentation would be really nice
[00:26] <Lossif> is it just an official repository? and I have to get it?
[00:26] <Lossif> if so... umm... how?
[00:27] <Staticwave_Ace> sudo apt-get install mythnettv
[02:33] <squish103> does mythtv 9.04 allow you to install on some kind of lvm?
[02:33] <squish103> opps mythbuntu
[02:34] <Staticwave_Ace> http://www.debuntu.org/how-to-install-ubuntu-over-lvm-filesystem
[02:34] <Staticwave_Ace> it's not built-in, but it's not hard to do it yourself
[02:34] <Staticwave_Ace> (that's obviously a generic ubuntu howto_
[02:34] <Staticwave_Ace> and, yes, it works, I did it
[02:35] <squish103> ok thanks Staticwave_Ace
[02:35] <squish103> i just screwed up a perfectly working 8.10 that was on lvm2 jfs
[02:36] <Staticwave_Ace> how'd that happen?
[02:36] <squish103> and now have no way to get back my lvm's as it drops me to a shell without booting :(
[02:36] <Staticwave_Ace> squish103: systemrescuecd
[02:36] <squish103> i just clicked upgrade
[02:37] <squish103> boot with the CD 9.04 and do a system rescue?
[02:37] <Staticwave_Ace> well that
[02:37] <Staticwave_Ace> or use systemrescuecd
[02:37] <Staticwave_Ace> it's a distro for rescuing systems
[02:37] <Staticwave_Ace> an ubuntu livecd could help
[02:37] <Staticwave_Ace> though I usually do repairs via commandline
[02:37] <squish103> ok i'll go try find it... when it comes to lvm's... if i don't have a how-to i have no clue... it is alittle above e
[02:38] <Staticwave_Ace> hopefully they're still there
[02:38] <Staticwave_Ace> you'll need to apt-get install lvm2 on the livecd after booting
[02:38] <Staticwave_Ace> to do anything useful
[02:38] <squish103> yes i did that and then i did a pvscan and lvscan or something, and i could see them listed
[02:39] <squish103> so i guess i somehow have to get them mounted and lvm2 installed in there... actually i have no idea what to do :(
[02:39] <Staticwave_Ace> chroot
[02:39] <squish103> ok so something along the lines of
[02:40] <squish103> boot livecd
[02:40] <squish103> apt-get install lvm2
[02:40] <squish103> mkdir /mnt/oldroot
[02:40] <squish103> mount it
[02:40] <squish103> then chroot into it
[02:40] <squish103> then apt-get install lvm2 again
[02:41] <Staticwave_Ace> yup
[02:41] <Staticwave_Ace> hopefully
[02:41] <squish103> and try figure it out from there
[02:41] <Staticwave_Ace> oh
[02:41] <Staticwave_Ace> you need to mount your /boot inside /mnt/oldroot
[02:41] <Staticwave_Ace> since lvm2 will want to regen your initramfs
[02:41] <Staticwave_Ace> which is very important
[02:41] <squish103> ok, and i probably have to initr...
[02:42] <squish103> ok thanks for the help
[02:42] <squish103> next time i am only going to use supported fs's out of the box
[02:42] <Staticwave_Ace> ext4 :)
[02:43] <squish103> although lvm2 with jfs has worked quite nicely
[02:57] <Technophil> Hi, I have run up 9.04, I find on re-booting the mythbuntu logo displays, the traveler completes then the screen turns off....
[02:58] <Technophil> Can anyone suggest what I need to do from here?
[02:59] <Technophil> Box is a 3G Pentum Dup, NVIDIA 8500, 500T Tuner card
[03:16] <Technophil> I can ssh in and top says not much happening
[04:03] <superm1> henrik_, what's up with the latest weekly and pulse?
[04:03] <superm1> i know upstream made some changes to pulse support. what do we need to do to comply?
[04:04] <superm1> i thought just building without pulseaudio as a build depends was actually sufficient as the code checking for running pulseaudio wont do anything
[04:34] <Technophil> OK if it helps anyone the problem seemed to be that I selected NVIDIA component on the setup display, I think this does not configure properly and that was where the display was being sent!  Reinstalling using the default NVIDIA and no TV out installed as expected.
[04:36] <Technophil> I also report the previous About Menu Item has somehow now got to do with xubuntu, which seems an error that somehow slipped in to the latest build...
[05:08] <henrik_> superm1: this is what I get when I try to run the frontend, http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1137410
[05:47] <superm1> henrik_, ah i see. so it sounds like we need to add a new conf flag to our build then

[05:52] <wolf_> Hi, is having the bottum and top panels not dissapear when openeing mythbuntu a common issue in 9.04?
[05:54] <superm1> wolf_, it is on gnome (which doesnt ship with mythbuntu by default)
[05:55] <superm1> generally turning off compiz can take care of it
[05:56] <superm1> henrik_, it looks like it should likely just be a two line diff and rebuild to fix the pulse thing
[05:57] <superm1> henrik_, but there is a big worry i have - it might ADD a dependency on pulseaudio
[05:57] <superm1> which I *really* don't want...
[05:59] <hads> Yeah, that changeset looked like it needed the headers to compile against.
[05:59] <superm1> well build dependency is fine, but if it has to link to something in pulse audio
[06:00] <hads> Kinda funny depending on pulse to get rid of it :)
[06:00] <superm1> and require you to have it installed on the resultant system..
[06:00] <superm1> but i'm thinking it might just add a dependency on libpulse0 rather than pulseaudio itself
[06:00] <hads> Yeah
[06:10] <wolf_> disabling compiz is kind of a big deal is there no other work around?
[06:11] <henrik_> superm1: perfect, I know it's not ideal, one other solution could be to remove pulseaudio compleatly from this project.
[06:11] <henrik_> However I'm not sure if that would be appriciated by Ubuntu.
[06:25] <hads> wolf_: Figure out what causes mythtv and compiz to not like each other and patch it is the alternative.
[06:26] <wolf_> hads, problem never happened in 8.10 so it must be a change in mythbuntu.
[06:45] <ludmilmm> hi. just installed 9.04. fresh install. i have put a video file, and then in video settings i want to apply the metadata. when i open the video setup, it opens a box asking for imdb#, but i can not enter there anything, neither with the remote, nor with the keyboard. any idea whats wrong and how to deal with it?
[08:05] <Brondoman> Has anyone successfully used a Kworld 330U (dual ATSC and Analog) USB tuner?  The em28xx driver works (from the mercurial repository) for analog but not digital.
[08:28] <foxbuntu> Brondoman, have you checked the mythtv wiki for what is or isnt supported yet with that card?
[08:32] <Brondoman> Yup.  that's how I found out to try the one in the repository.  Chased down a few mailing list posts after that and they listed a patch that should have been in the repository but it wasn't (or I pulled the wrong tag).
[08:33] <foxbuntu> Brondoman, are you trying to tune to clear QAM in the US by chance?
[08:34] <foxbuntu> on the digital side
[08:36] <Brondoman> nope.  DVB-T in the US
[08:37] <foxbuntu> so, OTA ATSC then?
[08:47] <Guest26013> Hi anybody want to help with me getting a lightblue screen for the menus, and a dark blue for video.. http://mythbuntu.pastebin.com/f55c88906
[08:48] <Guest26013> ALso is since upgrading to Jaunty today (It was fine beforehand)
[08:54] <foxbuntu`> Brondoman, sorry about that, power went out for a moment, still trying to get everything back online
[09:07]  * hads hands foxbuntu a UPS
[09:07] <foxbuntu> hads, great..thanks that helps now the that power is back on
[09:07] <foxbuntu> ;)
[09:09] <foxbuntu> h a d s = helpful  and delightful servant right?
[09:12] <foxbuntu> hads, ^
[09:12] <Brondoman> hehe
[09:14]  * foxbuntu really should get a UPS, and something to backup his data to :)
[09:30] <hads> foxbuntu: And you were the one going on about hardware RAID, tsk tsk :)
[09:34] <foxbuntu> hads, I had RAID
[09:34] <foxbuntu> I need a backup solution
[09:34] <foxbuntu> heh
[09:34] <foxbuntu> hads, I have hardware RAID*
[09:35] <hads> I think I'd worry about backups and UPS before I worried about hardware vs software RAID :)
[09:35] <foxbuntu> hads, its on a real server, HP DL380
[09:35] <foxbuntu> so hardware RAID is there
[09:35] <foxbuntu> should I not use it and use software RAID instead?
[09:35] <foxbuntu> :P
[09:36] <hads> Meh, real
[09:36] <hads> :)
[09:38] <foxbuntu> lmao
[09:38] <foxbuntu> Im playing CoD4 online and people are all freaking out because I am glitching the map
[10:09] <Slavox> foxbuntu: you naughty devil
[10:10] <foxbuntu> Slavox, heh...I know its lame, but its entertaining at 4A
[10:10] <Slavox> Yeah I grief in TF2 sometimes (On the achivement servers)
[10:10] <Slavox> But I hate people who glitch seriously on CoD4
[10:11] <Slavox> Like scrollers :/
[10:11] <Slavox> Fun is fun but some days I just wanna play :P
[13:58] <MythbuntuGuest67> Hello.  I'm having a problem with the audio on ripped DVDs.  It's this chattery/staticy/clicky sound.  Audio on everything else is fine, to include the audio on conventional DVD playback.
[14:28] <ajross> hello everyone
[14:29] <ajross> I was wondering if anyone would be willing to steer me in the right direction in getting freesat working with my nova-hd-s2 card?
[14:30] <ajross> i've tried everything i can think of to get a channels.conf or a sucessful scan but it won't work
[14:30] <ajross> im running mythbuntu 9.04 with an nvidia-glx-180 driver
[14:46] <MythbuntuGuest17> hallo und guten tag, ich kann leider nur in deutsch schreiben und habe seit dem update von mythbuntu 8.10 auf 9.04 ein kleines problem. kann mir jemand helfen ?
[15:04] <tafkaz_73> hi there, i am sure this question has been asked quite a few times before here, but has anyone yet tried to update his mythtv-box to 9.04
[15:04] <tafkaz_73> did it work? what are the problems i may have to expect?
[15:16] <ajross> anyone any idea how to solve this?
[15:16] <ajross> >>> tune to: 10758:v:0:22000
[15:16] <ajross> DVB-S IF freq is 1008000
[15:16] <ajross> WARNING: filter timeout pid 0x0011
[15:16] <ajross> WARNING: filter timeout pid 0x0000
[17:46] <BerryMarmalade2> hi, after 9.04 upgrade i can view recordings but if i click one the remote frontend say that it can't find the record file
[17:47] <tafkaz_73> hm
[17:47] <tafkaz_73> thats odd
[17:48] <BerryMarmalade2> how can i do?
[17:49] <BerryMarmalade2> i dont' know how the windows frontend can open the files, it's a samba problem'
[17:49] <BerryMarmalade2> ?
[17:52] <tafkaz_73> hm your frontend and your backend are different machines?
[17:54] <tafkaz_73> is the network connection established?
[17:54] <tafkaz_73> can you watch tv from the remote frontend?
[17:55] <tafkaz_73> livetv i mean
[18:05] <BerryMarmalade2> tafkaz_73: hi, i have a linux min backand and a windows frontend
[18:06] <tafkaz_73> oh i see. well i am absolutely not familiar with win frontends
[18:06] <tafkaz_73> sorry, but i dont think i can help then
[18:06] <BerryMarmalade2> tafkaz_73: ok
[19:40] <mac9416> Alright, I installed Mythtv on my Ubuntu box and typed "mythtv-setup" as I was instructed during installation.
[19:40] <mac9416> I got a "cannot login to database" error.
[19:41] <mac9416> Any ideas?
[19:43] <Shadow__X> mac9416, goto /etc/mythtv/mysql.txt and try and login to mysql using that info
[19:44] <mac9416> Shadow__X, You're everywhere! OK, will do.
[19:44] <Shadow__X> no i just try and help out in some areas i know alittle bit about
[19:49] <mac9416> Shadow__X, And I thank you for it. OK I tried "mysql -u mythtv -p <Whatever it was> -h localhost" and got an access denied.
[19:50] <Shadow__X> dont use -h localhost just do mysql -u mythtv and -p<>
[19:50] <mac9416> OK...
[19:52] <mac9416> Second verse, same as the first I'm afraid.
[19:52] <mac9416> It seemed to assume localhost anyway.
[19:55] <mac9416> I can get into the mysql shell if I just drop all args. I don't know if that helps.
[20:05] <mac9416> Well, I think I may just try Mythbuntu as soon a shipit is back up.
[20:05] <Shadow__X> why not dl it
[20:08] <mac9416> I'm using Verizon broadband wirless. 5GB/month cap. It's been 7 days and I've already hit 1100Megs. :-D
[20:08] <mac9416> Yeah, I hate to use Canonical's money, but things are difficult otherwise.
[20:09] <Shadow__X> mac9416, i think after you hit the cap they throttle you
[20:10] <mac9416> Throttle? You mean charge extra? Or just slow me down.
[20:10] <Shadow__X> slow you down but dont quote me on that
[20:11] <mac9416> OK, I'll check into that. Yeah, I could just time the download for the last few hours of the month.
[20:15] <mac9416> Is there any other good tv-recording software I can use until I get Mythbuntu?
[20:16] <Shadow__X> the only one i used extensively is mythtv
[20:16] <Shadow__X> you should be able to easily setup ubuntu to use mythtv but other than that dont know
[20:18] <mac9416> Well, I installed the debs, and mythtv-frontend appears in Applications, but during setup, it can't get into the datadase.
[20:19] <mac9416> (Wow, I think I put in too many commas) :P
[20:20] <Shadow__X> wait did you install mythtv-backend and mysql
[20:20] <Shadow__X> and what debs are you talking about why didnt you use repos
[20:21] <mac9416> Yeah I installed both. I used Keryx to download the debs because my Linux box has no Internet connection.  :P
[20:22] <Shadow__X> oh
[20:22] <mac9416> Yeah, it gets dependencies for you.
[20:22] <Shadow__X> but you have the wireless
[20:22] <Shadow__X> thats not cheap
[20:22] <mac9416> keryxproject.org
[20:23] <mac9416> No, I'm just kidding about that.
[20:23] <mac9416> I have wireless for the laptop, but none of the desktops.
[20:24] <mac9416> Yeah, I think Mythbuntu will be the key. All the setup done for me.
[20:24] <mac9416> I may just buy the CD if it comes to that.
[20:26] <Shadow__X> hmm i guess i mean its not like its hard to setup really
[20:26] <Shadow__X> go onto the ubuntu box and reconfigure mysql
[20:27] <mac9416> I don't have any experience with mysql, I'm afraid, so I'm not sure how to go about that.
[20:28] <Shadow__X> alright h/o i am rebooting
[20:35] <Shadow__X> back
[20:35] <mac9416> Yo.
[20:36] <Shadow__X> mac9416, go into synaptic find mysql server and right click it and choose reconfigure
[20:36] <mac9416> OK...
[20:42] <mac9416> Well, neither Synaptic nor dpkg-reconfigure believe that mysql is even installed. OK, I'll try installing it again.
[20:43] <mac9416> What's the name of the package? 'mysql'?
[20:43] <mac9416> I installed mysql-server.
[20:45] <mac9416> http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/ubuntu/install-mysql-server-5-on-ubuntu/
[20:45] <mac9416> Apparenly all I have to have is mysql-server. I'll reconfig that...
[20:45] <Shadow__X> yeah that could be why mythtv is yelling about mysql
[20:45] <Shadow__X> ;)
[21:00] <mac9416> Haha, I think not. Apparently there is no 'mysql' package. It seems that 'mysql-server' does the job. Does your Synaptic have a 'mysql' package?
[21:01] <mac9416> I tried right-clicking mysql-server to click reconfigure, but that option was not there.
[21:06] <Shadow__X> mark for reinstallation
[21:06] <Shadow__X> and do mysql-server not mysql
[21:06] <mac9416> OK, will do.
[21:31] <mac9416> Well, reinstallation didn't help.
[21:34] <Shadow__X> what did it do
[21:34] <Shadow__X> also try mysql -u root
[21:34] <Shadow__X> wait hold on you dont have internet on the myth box?
[21:34] <Shadow__X> what are you going to be using this for
[21:35] <mac9416> Nope. Recording off a VHS. :P
[21:36] <mac9416> It just went through the reinstallation process. No reconfiguration, no nothing.
[21:36] <Shadow__X> off vhs huh
[21:36] <Shadow__X> lol
[21:37] <mac9416> Now, what am I trying to accomplish with 'mysql -u' etc.
[21:37] <Shadow__X> i dont know if mythtv is wright for that
[21:37] <mac9416> Yeah, Indiana Jones.
[21:37] <Shadow__X> write*
[21:37] <mac9416> *right?
[21:37] <Shadow__X> mysqpl -u root would be to log into the database from terminal
[21:37] <mac9416> Well, I think I can already do that.
[21:37] <Shadow__X> yeah right* i guss i am off today
[21:37] <Shadow__X> hmm ok
[21:38] <mac9416> If I just type 'mysql' I get "mysql>"
[21:38] <mac9416> A prompt.
[21:39] <mac9416> Well, it does ask my password.
[21:39] <mac9416> But I just entered it.
[21:40] <Shadow__X> hmm
[21:40] <Shadow__X> alright now we can fix stuff
[21:40] <mac9416> Cool
[21:42] <Shadow__X> you need to create the mythtv user
[21:42] <Shadow__X> from the mysql promt
[21:42] <Shadow__X> type this
[21:43] <Shadow__X> mysql> INSERT INTO user (Host,User,Password) VALUES('%','username',PASSWORD('password'));
[21:45] <mac9416> It looks a bit scary. Could you assume some things (maybe replace them with "example")?
[21:45] <mac9416> Or just break it down for me.
[21:47] <Shadow__X> sure insert that user  into users so replace 'username'
[21:47] <Shadow__X> anbd replace 'password'
[21:48] <Shadow__X> also replace 'password' with the password mythtv will use to access its database
[21:49] <mac9416> "mysql> INSERT INTO user (localhost,mac9416,pswd) VALUES('%','mac9416',PASSWORD('pswd'))"
[21:49] <mac9416> Will that get it?
[21:50] <mac9416> Or should I use user 'mythtv' and password 'llhv9' (or something like that)?
[21:50] <mac9416> The stuff in /etc/mythtv/mysql.txt.
[21:51] <Shadow__X> i would use mythtv and the pass that mysql.txt used just for documentation sake and to remember it
[21:52] <mac9416> OK, then "mysql> INSERT INTO user (localhost,mythtv,llhv9) VALUES('%','mythtv',PASSWORD('llhv9'))"
[21:52] <mac9416> Will that work?
[21:52] <mac9416> It's a confusing line.
[21:53] <Shadow__X> i am not quite sure at the moment
[21:53] <mac9416> OK, I'll give it a whirl...
[21:53] <Shadow__X> or
[21:54] <Shadow__X> Adding a Database User with Password
[21:54] <Shadow__X> 	mysql> grant all privileges on [databasename].* to [dbusername]@localhost
[21:54] <Shadow__X> 	identified by '[dbpassword]';
[21:54] <Shadow__X> 	Example:  grant all privileges on mydatabase.* to joeuser@localhost
[21:54] <Shadow__X> 	identified by 'supersecretpasswd';
[21:54] <Shadow__X> damn it i should of pastebined it
[21:54] <Zinn> Shadow__X: Please watch your language.
[21:54] <Shadow__X> ok
[21:55] <mac9416> mysql> grant all privileges on mythtv.* to mythtv@localhost
[21:55] <mac9416> ?
[21:57] <mac9416> It looks good exept [databasename] which I'm not sure about.
[21:58] <Shadow__X> for this kind of stuff you can hop back in mythtv they know more about mysql commands than i do
[21:58] <Shadow__X> or
[21:58] <Shadow__X> you could look at mythtv.org that should have some mysql info
[21:59] <Shadow__X> http://www.mythtv.org/docs/mythtv-HOWTO-6.html
[22:30] <hads> Yeah, mythtv isn't really the right thing to use to record off a VHS.
[22:30] <hads> And there is much easier ways to setup mythtv in Ubuntu.
[22:30] <hads> !database
[22:30] <Zinn> Sorry I don't know about database
[22:30] <hads> !mysql
[22:30] <Zinn> If you are having problems connecting to your mysql database, you can perform the following to reconfigure it: 1. sudo dpkg-reconfigure mysql-server-5.0 (pay attention to the root password you set, you will need it for the next step) 2. sudo dpkg-reconfigure mythtv-database 3. sudo dpkg-reconfigure mythtv-common
[22:31] <BenB> 9.04 already ships with the broken mythfrondend which willfully and stupidly breaks pulseaudio?
[22:32] <hads> Don't think so.
[22:32] <BenB> ah, ok, good.
[22:32] <hads> If that was a question.
[22:32] <BenB> yes, it was
[22:32] <hads> :)
[22:32] <BenB> somebody just said that he ran into that problem after upgrading to 9.04.
[22:32] <hads> Putting question marks on the end of sentances makes them look funny?
[22:33] <hads> I hear it's slipped into the weekly build.
[22:33] <styelz> yes?
[22:33] <hads> But should be fixed soon enough
[22:34] <mac9416> OK, got distracted there for a minute. I'll look at that howto, then try what Zinn suggested.
[22:36] <BenB> hads: yes, it 's a form of sarcastic irony and therefore can be considered funny, depending on viewpoint, but in my case, it was actually a question.
[22:36] <BenB> the "stupid" was a statement, the "ships" was a question,.
[22:36] <BenB> :-)
[22:37] <mac9416> The HOWTO says:
[22:37] <mac9416> cd database
[22:37] <mac9416> mysql < mc.sql
[22:37] <mac9416> I'm not sure where to cd database from.
[22:37] <mac9416> So, I'll try what Zinn said.
[22:37] <superm1> on ubuntu the database is built for you using mythtv-database and mythtv-common
[22:37] <superm1> just follow !mysql
[22:37] <BenB> mac9416: the toturial means the source code directory.
[22:38] <mac9416> Oh, so only if I compile it myself?
[22:38] <superm1> BenB, there was a patch to -fixes that came after 9.04 that broke things
[22:38] <superm1> BenB, it should be taken care of though in today's weekly build
[22:38] <superm1> (wrg to pulse)
[22:38] <mac9416> I haven't upgraded yet, so I'm good.
[22:38] <superm1> well 9.04 itself is fine
[22:38] <superm1> it's just if you use weekly builds
[22:39] <mac9416> OK.
[22:42] <BenB> superm1: "taken care of" in the sense of undoing the patch?
[22:44] <BenB> for the record, pulse works fine here on (stock) ubuntu 8.04 with the mythtv packages.
[22:44] <Shadow__X> but also mac9416 mythtv isnt really for recording from vhs
[22:45] <mac9416> Shadow__X, Zinn, ya'll rock. The reconfigurations worked and now I can get to the main Mythtv screen! Unfortunately, when I go to "Watch TV" and hit enter the screen just blinks and that's all.
[22:45] <Shadow__X> mac9416, did you setup a tuner
[22:45] <mac9416> Shadow__X, well if it even just works a little, that will be good.
[22:45] <mac9416> No, I don't know how.
[22:46] <Shadow__X> thats why live tv doesnt work
[22:46] <BenB> mac9416: follow the tutorial further.
[22:46] <mac9416> Maybe ;-)
[22:46] <BenB> mac9416: it explains that
[22:46] <Shadow__X> yup
[22:46] <Shadow__X> like go get some tuners or do crazy firewire
[22:47] <mac9416> Okee-dokee, thanks! Shadow__X has been with me, what 3 hours! Thanks a lot
[22:47] <mac9416> !
[22:47] <Zinn> Sorry I don't know about
[22:47] <Shadow__X> yeah its cool we have all been there
[22:47] <Shadow__X> i am just glad i  can help somewhat
[22:47] <mac9416> Thanks to Zinn also
[22:52] <Shadow__X> zinn is a bot
[22:52] <Shadow__X> !help
[22:52] <Zinn> !help For a  complete list of my knowledge visit: http://www.baablogic.net/Zinn.cgi  Other available commands: !status, !about, !bug [bug_number].
[22:52] <Shadow__X> !status
[22:52] <Zinn> I am alive.
[22:54] <mac9416> Dadgum, he had me fooled! Thanks hads!
[22:54] <mac9416> !mysql
[22:54] <Zinn> If you are having problems connecting to your mysql database, you can perform the following to reconfigure it: 1. sudo dpkg-reconfigure mysql-server-5.0 (pay attention to the root password you set, you will need it for the next step) 2. sudo dpkg-reconfigure mythtv-database 3. sudo dpkg-reconfigure mythtv-common
[22:54] <mac9416> :P
[22:54] <superm1> BenB, no, it now depends on libpulse0 and can disable pulseaudio as necessary
[22:56] <BenB> superm1: will there be a user-friendly way to let mythtv *use* pulse (via native API or alsa emulation), as it was possible in 8.04?
[22:56] <hads> There's an environment variable you can set I think.
[22:56] <BenB> cause that worked fine here, and pulse is really cool. *esp* on the myth frontend, which has nice speakers, which I use for music form my other parts of the house, i.e. I *need* pulse.
[22:57] <superm1> BenB, you'll need to ask in #mythtv about behaviors with it. i think you can still use alsa emulation with this latest patch
[22:57] <BenB> ok
[22:57] <superm1> i've not actually experimented with it myself yet
[22:57] <superm1> er maybe #mythtv-users
[22:57] <superm1> thats a better start
[22:57] <hads> Yeah, I was using pulse successfully too.
[22:58] <BenB> I'd rather not go to #mythtv, or I'll hit danielk who created the patch, and I'll use the worst kinds of insults towards him :)
[22:58] <hads> Just be nicer.
[22:58] <hads> And do make sure it's #mythtv-users
[22:58] <BenB> nah, when I see such arrogant ignorance, I can't be nice anymore :/
[22:58] <hads> Well that's your problem then.
[22:58] <Shadow__X> mac9416, so any other questions
[22:58] <BenB> that's why I rather avoid the confrontation and leave it to others who have better developed social skills :)
[22:59] <hads> heh
[22:59] <hads> At least you're honest :)
[23:01] <mac9416> Shadow__X, yeah, I ran mythtv-setup, and added my capture card, but I still can't enter "Watch TV"
[23:01] <Shadow__X> you didnt scan
[23:01] <Shadow__X> it knows theres a tuner but doesnt know what to tune
[23:02] <mac9416> Waaaait, that's for TV. I want the Composite(2).
[23:04] <mac9416> Do I still have to scan?
[23:05] <superm1> you have to attach a tv source
[23:05] <superm1> eg somewhere guide data comes from
[23:06] <hads> Are you just trying to digitise some old VHS tapes?
[23:06] <mac9416> Yeah, old-school, retro VHSs.
[23:06] <hads> If you happen to have a PVR-150 or somesuch then you can just cat /dev/video0 > my_movie.mpg
[23:06] <mac9416> I don't even want to watch TV.
[23:07] <hads> Honestly, it's a bit of a waste of time using myth just for that.
[23:07] <mac9416> Heavens! had I known that...
[23:07] <mac9416> Well, I plan to do some editing too.
[23:08] <mac9416> So, cat /dev/video0 > my_movie.mpg? And I can play that with Xine?
[23:09] <hads> Are you using a PVR-150?
[23:09] <mac9416> No, ATI TV-Wonder 200. And I hate it.
[23:09] <mac9416> But, it's what I've got.
[23:10] <hads> Then quite possibly not, no.
[23:10] <hads> So don't feel so bad :)
[23:10] <mac9416> No, I know I have a /dev/video0
[23:10] <mac9416> If that's all that's required...
[23:10] <hads> It's not.
[23:11] <mac9416> Drato.
[23:11] <hads> The PVR-150 etc. output MPEG files which is why you can do that.
[23:11] <mac9416> So, how can I get Mythtv to play it?
[23:11] <mac9416> (I need to get a PVR)
[23:12] <hads> Pass, I don't know anything about that card but if it's supported under Linux then the normal myth setup should work.
[23:15] <mac9416> I thought I already did the normal setup in mythtv-setup. Is there something else I have to configure?
[23:16] <Shadow__X> try cating it
[23:16] <mac9416> OK, can't hurt.
[23:21] <mac9416> cat: Input/Output error.
[23:23] <Shadow__X> where you playing the tape
[23:24] <mac9416> Yup. (Raiders of the Lost Ark) :-D
[23:24] <mac9416> No luck.
[23:26] <Shadow__X> /dev/video0 is there right
[23:26] <Shadow__X> nvm
[23:26] <mac9416> Yup.
[23:26] <Shadow__X> make the vcr is plugged in
[23:27] <mac9416> Yup.
[23:27] <mac9416> Y'know, I had it playing in TVTime, but it stopped. Maybe a reboot is in order...
[23:30] <Shadow__X> unless you did something normally reboots arent needed in linux all the time
[23:30] <mac9416> True...
[23:33] <Shadow__X> does tvtime work now
[23:33] <Shadow__X> ?
[23:33] <mac9416> Nope, 'fraid not.
[23:34] <Shadow__X> what does it say
[23:34] <mac9416> Nothing. No errors, just a blue screen.
[23:35] <Shadow__X> hmm when it was working what happened for it to stop
[23:36] <mac9416> Well, I installed 'dvr' thinking I'd give it a try.
[23:36] <Shadow__X> hmm did you run it lol oh wait
[23:36] <Shadow__X> is myth-backend running
[23:36] <mac9416> Probably.
[23:37] <mac9416> Kill it?
[23:37] <Shadow__X> yes either kill it or delete where you configured setup to use your tuner
[23:39] <mac9416> No good killing it. Where's that config file?
[23:39] <Shadow__X> what do you mean no good killing it
[23:40] <mac9416> It didn't help.
[23:42] <Shadow__X> you killed the backend? and it still doesnt help
[23:43] <mac9416> Nope. No good.
[23:43] <Lossif> is there a tutorial on how to set up mythnettv on mythbuntu 9.04?
[23:51] <mac9416> Shadow__X, I'll just play arround with it tonight. It's probably very simple.
[23:51] <Shadow__X> yeah most likely


[01:28] <shadeslayer> zomg
[01:28] <shadeslayer> \o.
[01:28] <shadeslayer> \o/
[01:28] <shadeslayer> \o/
[01:28] <shadeslayer> I have hybrid graphics
[01:28] <shadeslayer> this is awesome
[01:28] <shadeslayer> except I do not know how to switch to igd
[01:30] <shadeslayer> or well
[01:30] <shadeslayer> the GPU hangs when switching
[02:04] <shadeslayer> btw anyone have recommendations on checking how good this radeon driver is in terms of 3D stuff
[03:00] <murthy> hello everyone
[03:01] <murthy> apachelogger: are you there?
[03:10] <murthy> apachelogger: merge this https://code.launchpad.net/~murthy/tomahawk/tomahawk-ubuntu
[06:05] <highvoltage> ScottK: I wish I had your levels of optimism
[10:04] <esing> Hello
[10:04] <esing> What is the google search syntax for krunner in kubuntu?
[10:07] <Riddell> esing: I think you have to turn that on
[10:09] <Riddell> gg:foo works
[10:10] <jussi> bah, seems #kde is dead :(
[10:10] <esing> Riddell, Do you use firefox and have the module web shortcuts checked in krunners options?
[10:10] <Riddell> no I use rekonq, yes I have the module web shortcuts ticked in krunners options
[10:11] <tsimpson> ggk::<term>, you can see a list from the ? icon in krunner
[10:11] <tsimpson> erm, only one :, not two
[10:12] <yofel> now even I'm confused, why ggk not gg?
[10:12] <yofel> (ggk works)
[10:13] <tsimpson> I don't know... the same reason it's ggg for google groups and ggn for google news
[10:14] <Riddell> ggk is google kubuntu
[10:14] <Riddell> Query=http://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=ks&q=\\{@}
[10:14] <Riddell> incase you want google's money to go to canonical
[10:14] <Riddell> I think that can be removed
[10:15] <esing> The ? icon lists me gg:q , yet it`s not opening google
[10:15] <tsimpson> gg:q does nothing for me
[10:17] <jussi> anyone know how to "reset" kwallet?
[10:17] <jussi> its completely borked for me :/
[10:19] <valorie> maybe there are relevant files in ~/.kde ?
[10:19] <tsimpson> open the manager and delete the wallet, I'd guess
[10:19] <valorie> haven't tried that with wallet though
[10:20] <jussi> tsimpson: tried that, worked in the poast, no dice anymore
[10:20] <jussi> I have a nice persistent password dialog...
[10:22] <tsimpson> I suppose if all else fails, (re)move ~/.kde/share/config/kwalletrc and ~/.kde/share/apps/kwallet/wallet.kwl
[10:22] <tsimpson> though it's probably best to do that while KDE isn't running
[10:24] <yofel> wgrant: btw. is there any useful information I could provide for debugging build failures without buildlog? like https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ninjas/+archive/ppa/+build/4344530
[10:26] <wgrant> yofel: That depwaited
[10:26] <wgrant> (several times)
[10:26] <wgrant> Not sure why it says failed
[10:36] <Mamarok> folks, you might check your lines in http://www.kubuntu.org/news/kde-sc-4.10, it says "add-apt-repository", that should be "apt-add-repository", no?
[10:37] <Riddell> Mamarok: mm yes
[10:37] <tsimpson> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 18 Oct  2 20:14 /usr/bin/apt-add-repository -> add-apt-repository
[10:37] <Mamarok> and then I am astonished if people tell me that the backports don't work :)
[10:38] <Riddell> tsimpson: interesting!
[10:38] <Riddell> Mamarok: well "fixed" anyway
[10:38] <Mamarok> thanks
[10:39] <Mamarok> one user tells me it also works with add-apt-repository, though
[10:39] <Mamarok> tsimpson: thanks :)
[10:39] <Riddell> yes, it's the same thing as tsimpson says
[11:05] <esing> Riddell, It works now for me too. I had to install konqueror and then activate gg: ggi: etc in konqueror's options "web shortcuts"; if you set firefox for your default webbrowser it will then also work for firefx
[11:17] <Riddell> esing: yeah it won't work if those are deselected.  curious that they should be though
[11:17] <Riddell> ug this compile fail on linking to pthreads is a pain
[11:32] <Riddell> I think I'll give up on qtwebkit on powerpc
[11:33] <Riddell> ScottK: can you remember how to bypass the -proposed checks?
[11:44] <Riddell> ah it's that pesky qscintilla upload in proposed which is failing compiles
[11:46] <yofel> those are raring-only though, as in quantal everything built fine
[11:47] <yofel> well, kdenetwork i386 is still building
[11:47] <Riddell> yes
[11:47] <yofel> I'll do the precise upload later
[11:47] <Riddell> murthy_: fancy fixing some of the lintian issues in http://yofel.dyndns.org/kubuntu/build_status_4.10.1_raring.html ?
[12:13] <yofel> Riddell: can it be that your default dput target is still ubuntu? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/raring/+source/kstars/4:4.10.1-0ubuntu1~ubuntu13.04~ppa2
[12:14] <Riddell> wibble
[12:18] <Riddell> qscintilla symbols are voodoo
[12:18] <Riddell> pkgkde-symbolshelper does not seem to like them
[12:48] <shadeslayer> Riddell: is there a generic armhf image for plasma-active?
[12:48] <shadeslayer> I remember you posting a link
[12:48] <shadeslayer> this? http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu-active/daily-preinstalled/current/
[12:49] <shadeslayer> that doesn't have the standard armhf zip :(
[12:56] <BluesKaj> Howdy all
[13:08] <smartboyhw> Hiyas. Not going to be doing any packagimg for today + next two days, need to revise for tests.
[13:22] <yofel> smartboyhw: one thing about calligra yesterday:
[13:22] <yofel> If you upload to the backports PPA, please either make yourself a staging PPA where you build it and copy the binaries over, or upload with urgency >= medium so there isn't much of a delay between architecture builds.
[13:22] <yofel> Apt isn't very intelligent when it sees archive skew.
[13:22] <smartboyhw> yofel: OK...
[13:22]  * yofel make a note to write a policy for that somewhere
[13:22] <smartboyhw> yofel: Are you running for KC?
[13:24] <yofel> I intend to, but need to fill out the wiki etc. first
[13:25] <smartboyhw> yofel :-(
[13:25] <smartboyhw> s/:-(/:-D/
[13:26] <smartboyhw> Kubotu doesn't work!!!!!!
[13:27] <smartboyhw> yofel ignore the sad face. I am having an happy face
[13:27] <smartboyhw> \o/
[13:29] <yofel> heh
[13:29] <smartboyhw> Typing mistakes..............
[13:29]  * smartboyhw wonders will anyone write him testimonials...
[13:31]  * shadeslayer has a excuse not to write testimonials for the next couple of days
[13:32]  * smartboyhw asks shadeslayer why...
[13:32] <shadeslayer> or to not write anything at all
[13:32] <shadeslayer> smartboyhw: need get my spects made :P
[13:33] <smartboyhw> shadeslayer: grrrrrrr
[13:33] <shadeslayer> all text is quite blurry at the moment
[13:33] <smartboyhw> Riddell, yofel: how about you guys?
[13:34]  * yofel wonders why smartboyhw needs testimonials, he has plenty. Yofel has 0
[13:35] <smartboyhw> yofel: That's for main Ubuntu membership...... I don't actually have any Kubuntu member testimonials ....
[13:36] <shadeslayer> we rarely do testimonials
[13:37] <shadeslayer> I had just one from ikonia when I applied
[13:37] <smartboyhw> shadeslayer: New world then:-P (for me)
[13:37] <shadeslayer> :)
[13:48] <murthy> hello everyone
[13:48] <smartboyhw> Hello murthy
[13:48] <murthy> smartboyhw: hi
[13:49] <lordievader> Good afternoon
[13:50] <murthy> Riddell: the packages which are marked orange in here ? http://yofel.dyndns.org/kubuntu/build_status_4.10.1_raring.html
[13:50] <smartboyhw> murthy: lintian warnings
[13:50] <murthy> Riddell: i guess the red ones?
[13:50] <smartboyhw> mm
[13:50] <smartboyhw> !
[13:51] <murthy> smartboyhw: ya, but which package?
[13:51] <smartboyhw> Good my smartphone keyboard went haywire
[13:51] <yofel> murthy: yeah, ask if you don't know what you need to do (btw. google usually gives the right docs when you search for the tag)
[13:51] <smartboyhw> murthy: Look at the list!!!!!!!!
[13:51] <murthy> yofel: sure
[13:51] <yofel> there's probably some more warnings that should be whitelisted too
[13:51] <yofel> murthy: start with the ones that start with E:
[13:51] <murthy> smartboyhw: all the packages listed there?
[13:52] <yofel> those are errors. And you only need to look at the warnings in bold
[13:52] <smartboyhw> murthy: The orange ones first
[13:52] <murthy> yofel: i will take care of the lintian warning and i am eager
[13:52] <murthy> smartboyhw: give the color legend
[13:53] <Riddell> murthy: the yellow ones
[13:53] <yofel> there is no legend. RED: bad, ORANGE: not so bad, but still bad, GREEN: ok
[13:53] <murthy> smartboyhw: red=? orange=? green=?
[13:53] <murthy> yofel: ok
[13:53] <Riddell> s/yellow/orange/ then :)
[13:53] <kubotu> Riddell meant: "murthy: the orange ones"
[13:53] <smartboyhw> yofel: Clearly even the new qscintilla2-9ubuntu1 in the ninjas PPA doesn't build.....
[13:54] <murthy> Riddell: ok
[13:54]  * yofel hasn't look at that monstrousity
[13:54] <smartboyhw> Riddell: Have you voted for a time of KC meeting?
[13:54] <Riddell> smartboyhw: the symbols files in that don't work, pkgkde-symbols helper doesn't seem to be enough magic for it
[13:54] <Riddell> smartboyhw: no, poke me again and I'll do it
[13:54] <yofel> actually, RED == something is actually *broken*, orange means there's stuff to fix, but the package would still work
[13:55] <murthy> where can i get the source tars?
[13:55] <yofel> murthy: 2 ways
[13:55] <yofel> either pull-ninjas-source from kubuntu-dev-tools
[13:55] <yofel> OR
[13:55] <smartboyhw> Riddell, I kn
[13:56] <yofel> you add the deb-src line for the PPA to your sources, then bzr builddeb can fetch the tar by itself
[13:56] <smartboyhw> s/kn/now officially poke you:-P/
[13:56] <kubotu> smartboyhw meant: "Riddell, I now officially poke you:-P"
[13:56] <yofel> bzr-buildpackage-ppa from the kubuntu-automation branch is useful too here
[13:57] <smartboyhw> It's UDS starting time...........
[13:57]  * Riddell joins #ubuntu-uds-plenary
[13:58] <murthy> yofel: every orange marked package is a i386 build, do they have something in common?
[13:58] <yofel> murthy: lintian doesn't run on amd64, that's all
[13:59] <murthy> yofel: what?
[13:59] <murthy> yofel: mine is amd64 install
[13:59] <yofel> the lintian warning generation is part of the architecture-independent build part, which is only run on the i386 builders
[13:59] <yofel> no point in generating the warnings twice
[14:00]  * yofel makes his way home, will join for the sessions later
[14:01] <smartboyhw> ok
[14:01] <murthy> yofel: see you later
[14:02] <Riddell> UDS plenary live
[14:03] <smartboyhw> Riddell, hmm I clearly can't close the doodle poll....
[14:03] <Riddell> smartboyhw: cos of no good slot?
[14:04] <smartboyhw> Riddell: got my message?
[14:05] <Riddell> smartboyhw: mm no?
[14:05] <Riddell> where is that?
[14:06] <smartboyhw> Riddell I can't close the Doodle poll even 4 KC members have voted....
[14:06]  * smartboyhw makes ping of jussi and Darkwing
[14:07] <Riddell> smartboyhw: the kubuntu council is deliberatly large in the expectation that not everyone will be able to take part all the time
[14:07] <Riddell> smartboyhw: so it's fine to declaire it done even if not all KC people can be part of it
[14:07] <murthy> Riddell: are you aware of the new pbuilder hook B09lintian
[14:07] <Riddell> murthy: no, do tell
[14:08] <Riddell> I don't use pbuilder much
[14:08] <smartboyhw> Riddell no the trouble is that there would be not enough quorum for voting me as member....
[14:08] <smartboyhw>  .......
[14:08] <murthy> Riddell:  the lintian check after building the source shows warnings that are not shown by lintian during debuild -S
[14:08] <smartboyhw> g
[14:09] <murthy> Riddell:  example http://paste.ubuntu.com/5557229/
[14:09] <Riddell> smartboyhw: hmm yes, keep pinging Darkwing and jussi then I guess, or add more times
[14:10] <Mamarok> smartboyhw: you seem to be a tad impatient, you only set up that doodle yesterday...
[14:10] <murthy> Riddell: so do you want me to look at the warnings during the debuild -S or the one that the new hook shows
[14:10] <Riddell> murthy: that's the same warning but with a description isn't it?
[14:10] <murthy> Riddell: no
[14:10] <Mamarok> smartboyhw: maybe avoid doing this on such a short notice?
[14:10] <smartboyhw> Mamarok: I am not.... I just want to settle a precise date
[14:11] <murthy> Riddell: those warnings wont show up during the debuils -S
[14:11] <murthy> Riddell: those warnings wont show up during the debuild -S
[14:11] <Riddell> Mamarok: be fair, it's the same notice as canonical gave us of wanting to drop the release :)
[14:11] <smartboyhw> lol
[14:11] <Mamarok> well, one day and sending 3 reminders since definitely IS impatient :)
[14:11] <murthy> Riddell: ya, the logs shows the description of the errors
[14:12] <Riddell> murthy: the ones in the logs would be the first ones to go for
[14:13] <murthy> Riddell: i just did a debuild -S for kactivities and from the log i can't see any erros except for the outdated standards. If you can confirm that, i will get an idea of this and i will follow it for the rest
[14:13] <murthy> Riddell: http://paste.kde.org/688208/
[14:15] <Riddell> murthy: oh a debuild -S won't give you issues with the binary packages
[14:15] <Riddell> only a full binary build will do that
[14:15] <murthy> Riddell: in that case , i will see the warnings given after invoked by the new hook .
[14:16] <Riddell> murthy: yep, or just look at the logs on http://yofel.dyndns.org/kubuntu/build_status_4.10.1_quantal.html
[14:16] <murthy> Riddell: so i do a correction where should i put the change
[14:16] <Riddell> many can be ignored, see lintian-ignore.json in kubuntu-automation
[14:16] <Riddell> in kactivities the only one you need to care about is intra-source-package-circular-dependency libkactivities-bin libkactivities-models1 libkactivities6
[14:16] <murthy> Riddell: ah thank you, i forgot about the build logs
[14:18] <Mamarok> Riddell: "to be fair, it's the same notice as canonical gave us of wanting to drop the release :)" <- what exactly are you refering to?
[14:18] <Riddell> Mamarok: where have you been since Thursday, canonical wants to drop non-LTS releases
[14:19] <Mamarok> ah, that
[14:19] <Mamarok> did they actually send that to kubuntu-devel? Or did they just make a press release
[14:19] <Riddell> Mamarok: discussion is on ubuntu-devel
[14:19] <Riddell> no decision yet (officially)
[14:19] <Mamarok> cause I remember having read it on G+
[14:20] <Riddell> lwn has a story
[14:20] <Mamarok> oh well, I am not in ubuntu-devel, for obvious reasons
[14:20] <Riddell> I don't usually follow it much
[14:24] <Riddell> hmm everything compiled in http://yofel.dyndns.org/kubuntu/build_status_4.10.1_quantal.html but only because I uploaded a qscintilla which compiles against amd64 (but not i386)
[14:24] <smartboyhw> lol
[14:25] <Riddell> ScottK: I see you dropped the symbols file there before, should we do the same again?
[14:25] <Riddell> smartboyhw: if you're at a lose end lots of lintian issues on http://yofel.dyndns.org/kubuntu/build_status_4.10.1_quantal.html :)
[14:26] <murthy> Riddell: where can i put the change>
[14:27] <Riddell> UDS> canonical wants an SDK for ubuntu using QML, something I can support i think
[14:27] <smartboyhw> Riddell on mobile and not on computer for 3 days
[14:27] <Riddell> murthy: commit to bzr?
[14:27] <murthy> Riddell: in my custom branch and request a merge?
[14:27] <Riddell> smartboyhw: ach with fancy mobiles these days you can still do development :)
[14:27] <Riddell> murthy: just commit, do you have access to ~kubuntu-packagers?
[14:28] <smartboyhw> Riddell mine isn't
[14:28] <smartboyhw> Is murthy Kubuntu member?
[14:28] <murthy> Riddell: don't know, checking my profile
[14:29] <murthy> smartboyhw: https://launchpad.net/~murthy
[14:29] <Riddell> smartboyhw: no he's not
[14:29] <Riddell> (yet)
[14:30] <Riddell> but I don't think there's any policy against just adding people to ~kubuntu-packagers
[14:30] <Riddell> ScottK: correct me if I'm wrong there ^
[14:30] <murthy> Riddell: I am not sure it will be a good idea to add me to it now
[14:30] <smartboyhw> Riddell if then add me too... Any objections?
[14:31] <Riddell> smartboyhw: I have none
[14:31] <smartboyhw> ;-)
[14:31] <Riddell> but I could be forgetting some policy we have on that group
[14:32] <Riddell> yofel, apachelogger, shadeslayer: any memory of that?
[14:32] <smartboyhw> Riddell: trust?
[14:33] <smartboyhw> That's what they've been saying + in team descriptio.
[14:33] <smartboyhw> s/descriptio./description./
[14:33] <kubotu> smartboyhw meant: "That's what they've been saying + in team description."
[14:33] <Riddell> yep
[14:34] <soee> hi guys, only 3 packages left to buld and 4.10.1 is ready ?
[14:34] <shadeslayer> Riddell: not that I recall
[14:34] <Riddell> smartboyhw, murthy: so poke me into merging packaging changes and I'll get fed up and add you
[14:34] <Riddell> soee: for raring? aren't they all done?
[14:34] <murthy> ha ha ha
[14:34] <soee> Riddell, looking at http://yofel.dyndns.org/kubuntu/build_status_4.10.1_raring.html
[14:35] <smartboyhw> ok
[14:35] <Riddell> ah yes still to do the ones for qscintilla
[14:35] <smartboyhw> yep
[14:37] <Riddell> soee: but should be good to test now if you're up to it
[14:38] <soee> im on 12.10 here at work, i can test when i get home ~ 21:00 cet
[14:38] <soee> there i have 13.04
[14:39] <Riddell> groovy
[14:40] <apachelogger> Riddell: trust
[14:40] <apachelogger> i.e. ~kubuntu-member
[14:41]  * smartboyhw is correct
[14:41] <apachelogger> Riddell: what with membership being the established way of confirming trust
[14:48] <murthy> apachelogger: did you merge tomahawk from my branch lp:~murthy/tomahawk/tomahawk-ubuntu  ?
[14:52] <apachelogger> no
[14:53] <Riddell> yofel: 4.10.1 is on mirrors, what's needed before we upload to raring? just more testing?
[14:53] <Riddell> !testers | 4.10.1 from ninjas
[14:54]  * smartboyhw can't test
[14:54] <yofel> that should be all
[14:54] <Riddell> yofel: and qscintilla
[14:55] <Riddell> ScottK: how much would you kill me if I uploaded a qscintilla without a .symbols file?
[14:55] <yofel> ah right
[14:56] <smartboyhw> :-D
[14:57]  * Riddell joins appdev-1303-ubuntu-sdk-roadmap interested in what toolkit they want to use
[14:57] <Riddell> since QML doesn't have any/has loads depending on which way you look
[14:58]  * smartboyhw joins community-testing
[15:13] <smartboyhw> KDE SC 4.10.1 is our.
[15:13] <smartboyhw> s/our/out/
[15:13] <kubotu> smartboyhw meant: "KDE SC 4.10.1 is out."
[15:15] <Riddell> I'm running the archive upload script
[15:16] <smartboyhw> good<3
[15:17] <Riddell> but it keeps breaking due to launchpad fail :(
[15:22] <smartboyhw> lol
[15:28] <yofel> yeah, I had to add a shitload of exception handling to the status script so you can actually see something -.-
[15:28] <yofel> even the backports needed manual fixing because pull-ppa-source can't handle launchpad errors
[15:29] <smartboyhw> Stupid Launchpad
[15:30] <Riddell> qtdeclarative5-ubuntu-ui-toolkit-plugin is interesting
[15:31] <Riddell> cos the world needs yet another QML toolkit :)
[15:37] <smartboyhw> lol
[15:38] <shadeslayer> Quintasan: I'm flashing the tablet with ubuntu touch, will report tomorrow how well it works with PA
[15:41] <Quintasan> >Mir
[15:41] <Quintasan> >Mir
[15:41] <Quintasan> >better than Wayland
[15:41] <Quintasan> oh lol
[15:41] <Quintasan> Canonical pls
[15:42] <smartboyhw> lol
[15:42] <murthy> in terms of cross form factor ?
[15:43] <shadeslayer> well
[15:43] <Quintasan> murthy: This will NOT work
[15:43] <murthy> Quintasan: why not?
[15:44] <Quintasan> Beacuse.
[15:44] <Quintasan> Please tell me Unity is a success.
[15:44] <shadeslayer> I just hope that either kwin grows a backend for Mir or wayland stuff just works
[15:44] <shadeslayer> on touch devices
[15:44] <murthy> Quintasan: yes it is
[15:44] <mgraesslin> shadeslayer: KWin will never get a backend for Mir if it is Ubuntu only
[15:44] <Quintasan> murthy: lol, there are as many people bashing it as using that
[15:44] <shadeslayer> oh look, a mgraesslin
[15:44] <Quintasan> that's not success
[15:44]  * mgraesslin doesn't accept distro specific patches
[15:44] <shadeslayer> mgraesslin: plz make Wayland rock
[15:44] <Darkwing> I was pinged.
[15:44] <smartboyhw> lol
[15:45] <smartboyhw> Darkwing yay
[15:45] <Quintasan> mgraesslin: Good, I don't want you to waste time on something that will be used by one distro
[15:45] <murthy> Quintasan: people don't like drastic changes
[15:45] <mgraesslin> shadeslayer: to be honest: I don't see any future for KWin on ubuntu
[15:45] <shadeslayer> mgraesslin: but wayland!
[15:45] <mgraesslin> I do not expect that Wayland will run on Ubuntu
[15:45] <Quintasan> murthy: Nor do I like people developing something that will be a waste of time
[15:45] <smartboyhw> Look at the last item on the topic and vote;-)
[15:45] <shadeslayer> mgraesslin: I'm reasonably certain that we can figure it out when the time comes to switch
[15:45] <mgraesslin> I expect Canonical to make it impossible to run anything except their home brew solution on top of their stack
[15:46] <shadeslayer> well
[15:46] <shadeslayer> that would suck
[15:46] <mgraesslin> personally I don't see any other reason to go with Mir in the first place
[15:46] <Quintasan> I vote we abandon Mir and Upstart at one point
[15:46] <mgraesslin> for KDE it would be easier to just say - we don't support Ubuntu and concentrate on "the Linux stack" which is Systemd + Wayland
[15:46] <mgraesslin> it could make much things easier
[15:46] <murthy> Quintasan: I like to see people using common stuff, but ubuntu don't like the idea of not accepting their ideas upstream
[15:47] <shadeslayer> :S
[15:47] <shadeslayer> mgraesslin: that's pretty harsh imho
[15:47] <mgraesslin> I'm sick of having always to have problems with Ubuntu
[15:47] <Quintasan> That's harsh but what the hell
[15:47] <mgraesslin> since yesterday we know it well get worse
[15:48] <mgraesslin> don't even want to think about the problems it will cause with Qt having an additional backend shipped
[15:48] <Quintasan> Why should we introduce YET ANOTHER DISPLAY SERVER when there is a new one it the works and the trasition will take much time
[15:48] <mgraesslin> all crash reports from Ubuntu wwe will be able to direct to /dev/null
[15:48] <shadeslayer> heh
[15:48] <Quintasan> Same shit (excuse poort wording) with Upstart
[15:48] <Quintasan> Systemd is superior to upstart in every way I can think of and yet we are forced to work with upstart
[15:48] <Darkwing> Oh goody, I'm not the only one who was stunned by Mir
[15:48] <mgraesslin> Quintasan: one difference, Upstart was before Systemd, otherwise I agree
[15:49] <shadeslayer> well, I just hope we can figure out something
[15:49] <Darkwing> Lemme guess, they are going to abandon pulse-audio for a new Canonical system
[15:49] <Quintasan> Darkwing: Canonical can't pull it off
[15:49] <shadeslayer> Darkwing: actually, they're using a AudioTrack backend for PA
[15:49] <Quintasan> They just can't
[15:49] <Darkwing> This is insane...
[15:49]  * mgraesslin thinks they lack expertise to develop a windowing system
[15:49] <Darkwing> What are we doing for "UDS" anything with mumble?
[15:50] <shadeslayer> there was a ascii diagram somewhere in the backlog
[15:50] <Quintasan> If they have the power to make nvidia and ati make a driver for that crap then they could as well as persuade them to provide better support XD
[15:50] <shadeslayer> ^
[15:50] <shadeslayer> Quintasan: that's my main concern
[15:50]  * mgraesslin doubts NVIDIA or AMD give a sh*** about mir
[15:50] <Quintasan> Waste of time and money
[15:50] <shadeslayer> what about all the work that nVidia and AMD put into X and wayland
[15:51] <shadeslayer> oh
[15:51] <Quintasan> They don't give much crap about Linux overall so.
[15:51] <shadeslayer> mgraesslin: I was told Mir uses mesa
[15:51] <shadeslayer> same as wayland
[15:51] <Darkwing> If we are going to change from X then, why not wayland?
[15:51] <shadeslayer> what does that mean in terms of drivers?
[15:51] <mgraesslin> nothing
[15:51] <Quintasan> I somehow get the idea that Ubuntu is a sinking ship
[15:51] <shadeslayer> so same situation as of right now?
[15:52] <Riddell> Darkwing: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MirSpec#Why_Not_Wayland_.2BAC8_Weston.3F
[15:52] <mgraesslin> shadeslayer: yes, but the difference is Wayland - complete ecosystem modulo Ubuntu and mir == Ubuntu
[15:52] <Darkwing> mesa? With Valve and Steam coming so hard toward Ubuntu they wouldn't want true acceleration???
[15:52] <Riddell> Darkwing: (I don't understand it)
[15:52] <mgraesslin> fyi: the wiki page on Why not Wayland is mostly FUD
[15:52] <shadeslayer> :(
[15:52]  * Darkwing scratches his head
[15:52] <murthy> Quintasan: on the contrary i guess ubuntu is teaming with corporate giants and with their requirements in mind they are doing stuff and so they will succeed
[15:53] <mgraesslin> or they don't understand Wayland
[15:53] <Riddell> mgraesslin: it does read a lot like wall of text not saying much
[15:53] <shadeslayer> then it makes sense for us to switch to wayland once the stack is mature enough
[15:53] <mgraesslin> Riddell: yesterday it contained clearly wrong statements
[15:53] <shadeslayer> and drop X altoghether
[15:53] <Quintasan> murthy: You won't convince me they have even 0,5% chance of success until I see that success
[15:53] <mgraesslin> shadeslayer: no, don't drop X, don't even think about it
[15:53] <shadeslayer> wait what
[15:53] <shadeslayer> :D
[15:53] <Quintasan> and other people actually saying "Hey, Mir is actually good"
[15:54]  * mgraesslin has not heard anyone competent in that area saying that mer is good
[15:54] <Darkwing> Yet another place where canonical just annouces something.
[15:54] <mgraesslin> why 9 month of inhouse development and not talking to the Wayland devs?
[15:54] <murthy> Quintasan: i see the practical results, ubuntu is getting popular and its the most popular desktop linux
[15:54] <Darkwing> Or, the community devs at all
[15:54] <mgraesslin> if there were design issues they could have been solved before the Wayland 1.0 release
[15:55] <Darkwing> DRM Canonical style.
[15:55] <murthy> Quintasan: also it has the support of the corporates
[15:55] <Darkwing> I'm going to make a parody of Gangum Style called Canonical Style
[15:55] <Quintasan> lel
[15:55] <Quintasan> murthy: Uhh, so?
[15:55] <smartboyhw> Who's Michel Zajac?
[15:55] <Quintasan> That's me
[15:55] <shadeslayer> Quintasan
[15:56] <smartboyhw> Darkwing: LOL
[15:56]  * smartboyhw is still missing Darkwing's vote.
[15:56] <Darkwing> Vote for?
[15:56] <Quintasan> Darkwing: Council meeting
[15:56] <Quintasan> wait
[15:56] <smartboyhw> Darkwing, next KC meeting
[15:56] <JontheEchidna> "Heeeeeey X replacement! Op Op Op, Oppa Canonical Style"
[15:56] <Quintasan> why did I vote for that
[15:57] <Darkwing> where is the poll?
[15:57] <smartboyhw> Quintasan it is OK
[15:57] <Quintasan> http://doodle.com/gb9zc9hsb8vt7rbb
[15:57] <smartboyhw> It helps
[15:57] <Quintasan> mgraesslin: So, long story short -> KDE is not going to bother with this Mir magic?
[15:57] <murthy> Quintasan: soon popular titles of games=more popularity, support from corporates= more income, hardware  support etc and its all ways to success
[15:57] <Quintasan> >more income
[15:57] <Riddell> hmm, I'm not sure community-1303-rolling-release can be covered in a 45 minute session
[15:58] <Quintasan> I SURE can see the income.
[15:58] <smartboyhw> Riddell what channel?
[15:58] <mgraesslin> personal opinion: get together with the other Ubuntu derivates and discuss whether it makes sense to be on top of Ubuntu or whether it's time to get on top of Debian
[15:58] <Quintasan> online UDS
[15:58] <Quintasan> lol
[15:58] <smartboyhw> IRC dih
[15:58] <mgraesslin> Quintasan: I am not going to accept any Mir specific patches as long as it's an Ubuntu only project
[15:58] <smartboyhw> s/dih/duh/
[15:58] <kubotu> smartboyhw meant: "IRC duh"
[15:59] <Quintasan> I see.
[15:59] <mgraesslin> Quintasan: whether it becomes on option if someone else adapts it. we'll have to see
[15:59] <mgraesslin> but I do not see any advantage over Wayland and therefore it's not of any interest to me
[15:59] <mgraesslin> except that it causes us more work and more issues
[15:59] <Quintasan> I so can't see anyone depending on this.
[15:59] <skellat> mgraesslin: Just because I titled it "Consider General Contingencies for Xubuntu" doesn't mean that that discussion cannot happen tomorrow.  I kept the title vague enough to ensure such discussions could start even in the UDS context :-)
[16:00] <mgraesslin> skellat: why are you pinging me?
[16:00] <Quintasan> >UDS
[16:00] <Quintasan> Looks like you are going to hold that online
[16:01] <skellat> Sorry about butting in.  As to the personal opinion, there will be a time for discussing contingencies including re-basing tomorrow at the vUDS.
[16:01] <Darkwing> Riddell: You think we need to do something with UDS or, are we going to have a reactive UDS to figure out what we are going to do with all of the Ubuntu changes?
[16:01] <mgraesslin> that was just my personal opinion as an upstream dev - I'm not a Kubuntu user nor will I tell them what to do
[16:02] <smartboyhw> Riddell: I'm closing ballot and choosing Sunday 15:00 UTC
[16:02]  * skellat wanders back to the rolling release livestream
[16:02] <Riddell> smartboyhw: ok, alas I'll be away canoeing then
[16:02] <Riddell> skellat: where's that?
[16:02] <mgraesslin> but the combination of UDS only online and now Mir clearly shows where Canonical wants to see the community distributions
[16:02] <skellat> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1303/meeting/21683/community-1303-rolling-release/
[16:03] <skellat> Oddly enough, System76 is involved in this
[16:04] <Riddell> skellat: oh it moved, thanks for pointing that out
[16:04] <Quintasan> now this looks hillarious :D
[16:05] <Darkwing> Yup. This answers a lot of questions.
[16:08] <Riddell> Darkwing: not getting the feeling anyone wants to do UDS for kubuntu
[16:08] <Riddell> a meeting some point soon would be good
[16:09] <Quintasan> I mean the main point of UDS was we could discuss and adress some points directly instead of trying to coordinate via internet
[16:10] <Quintasan> Now I don't really see how you can't say we are not holding a mini UDS here everyday :P
[16:10] <yofel> Quintasan: sure we are in the current style
[16:11] <yofel> we might as well leave a mumble session running permanently just for fun and hanging out.
[16:11] <yofel> has the downside of people missing context
[16:12] <Darkwing> yofel: I love that idea...
[16:12] <Darkwing> We could hold voice meetings and have a general chat session
[16:12] <Darkwing> Is mumble running?
[16:12] <yofel> sure, we just need to make sure the voice recordings don't get forgotten
[16:13] <yofel> the server on yofel-vz.dyndns.org should still be on. I'm listening to the session though
[16:13] <Darkwing> so am I
[16:13] <yofel> yeah, still on. I don't really need that server right now so I'll just leave it as it is
[16:14] <smartboyhw> I can't get to it yofel...
[16:15] <yofel> smartboyhw: to what?
[16:16] <Quintasan> what is the mumble server port?
[16:16] <smartboyhw> Plamsmate 1.0 officially released.
[16:16] <yofel> whatever's the default
[16:16] <smartboyhw> yofel your server...
[16:16] <yofel> kubotu: newversion plasmate 1.0
[16:16] <kubotu> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1147193
[16:17] <smartboyhw> Also rc for qtwebkit
[16:18] <Quintasan> ARGH
[16:18] <Quintasan> I'm not sure how to feel about this
[16:19] <Quintasan> The best course of action would be to watch and see how it turns out.
[16:19] <Riddell> UDS> rick says institutions are wrong to use the LTS (!)
[16:19] <Quintasan> lol
[16:19] <Quintasan> xD
[16:19] <Riddell> use case for LTS for a couple more years
[16:19] <Quintasan> lel
[16:19] <Riddell> oh gosh
[16:19] <Quintasan> ABANDON THE WARSHIP
[16:20] <Darkwing> This is crazy
[16:20] <Darkwing> The mothership is going crazy
[16:20] <Riddell> I have no idea how to join this conversation, it's just canonical talking to system76 so far
[16:21] <starbuck> what happened?
[16:21] <yofel> they obviously do read the channel - sometimes
[16:21] <mgraesslin> if institutions are wrong to use LTS, then RedHat will be happy
[16:21] <Quintasan> starbuck: Well, Mir, and rolling release
[16:21] <Quintasan> starbuck: and now Rick said LTS has no use cases
[16:21] <starbuck> yeah, so Qt now?
[16:21] <Darkwing> THey are ignoring the IRC channel for the most part...
[16:21] <starbuck> can KDE reuse this?
[16:21] <Darkwing> This is what I was worried about.
[16:21] <starbuck> the MIR?
[16:21] <yofel> yeah :/
[16:22] <starbuck> or still Wayland
[16:22] <yofel> starbuck: not without mgraesslin
[16:22] <mgraesslin> starbuck: no, we don't want ;-)
[16:22] <starbuck> haha
[16:22] <apachelogger> because of technical merits I reckon
[16:22] <starbuck> why MIR then for Ubuntu?
[16:22] <mgraesslin> NIH
[16:22] <apachelogger> like Mir vs. Wayland is using technical merits
[16:22] <yofel> starbuck: "supposed" to be better for touch stuff
[16:22] <yofel> better than wayland that is
[16:23] <Quintasan> >technical merits
[16:23] <Quintasan> lol
[16:23] <Quintasan> apachelogger: Have you gone mad more than usual?
[16:23] <mgraesslin> an article by wayland devs about that: http://vignatti.wordpress.com/2013/03/05/ui-customization-on-wayland/
[16:23] <starbuck> so Mint/Gtk-based distros etc will all switch to Mir then? Or only Unity exclusive DEs?
[16:23] <apachelogger> Quintasan: sarcasm
[16:23] <mgraesslin> only Unity
[16:23] <smartboyhw> Quintasan, what do you mean by no use cases?
[16:23] <starbuck> what about Gnome§?
[16:23] <starbuck> 3?
[16:23] <Quintasan> smartboyhw: Ask Rick
[16:24] <apachelogger> starbuck: canonical does not care about gnome3 ;)
[16:24] <Darkwing> So will X/Wayland/Other still be supported for the flavors?
[16:24] <apachelogger> Darkwing: if the falvors support them?
[16:24] <JontheEchidna> only in that we get stuff synced from debian
[16:24] <apachelogger> ...
[16:24] <JontheEchidna> (so at least canonical won't meddle) :P
[16:24] <starbuck> but gnome3 devs use wayland, mir, x?
[16:24] <Quintasan> So we'd need to move the whole effort to Debian
[16:24] <mgraesslin> Darkwing: see https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2013-March/036777.html
[16:24] <starbuck> in future?
[16:24] <mgraesslin> starbuck: currently they use X and they love Ubuntu really really much, so they will use Wayland
[16:25] <apachelogger> unless canonical wants to create a saparate platform from the reguar linux stuff they will have to have integrated X/Wayland support to some degree
[16:25] <Quintasan> starbuck: I can imagine noone save for Canonical cares about using Mir
[16:25] <apachelogger> starbuck: gnome3 uses X/Wayland
[16:25] <yofel> uhm... did I just understand right that that monthly thing is supposed to equal just not updating for a month @_@
[16:25] <apachelogger> GTK+3 however can use all three
[16:25] <apachelogger> much like Qt
[16:26] <mgraesslin> well GTK+3 on Ubuntu
[16:26]  * mgraesslin rather doubts GTK or Qt will accept a mir backend
[16:26] <apachelogger> what does it matter
[16:26] <Riddell> mgraesslin: why?
[16:26] <apachelogger> because they also drive decisions on technical merit
[16:26] <apachelogger> ...
[16:26]  * apachelogger needs to stop with that
[16:27] <Quintasan> We REALLY need to schedule a serious meeting when we work out our stance on every damn change they introduced
[16:27] <mgraesslin> Riddell: for the same reason I won't accept it in KWin - no one distribution solution upstream
[16:27] <mgraesslin> if downstream wants to patch: fine
[16:27] <ovidiu-florin> hello world :D
[16:27] <Quintasan> Because to me it seems they are pushing it that fast in order to confuse people so they end up accepting it by not doing anything
[16:27] <Riddell> mgraesslin: well, not fine for this part of downstream!
[16:27] <ovidiu-florin> is there any testing I (a newbie) could do? :D
[16:27] <apachelogger> Quintasan: it's the canonical way :P
[16:28] <apachelogger> <3 rolling
[16:28] <Riddell> ovidiu-florin: yes, 4.10.1 please :)
[16:28] <Riddell> ovidiu-florin: you on raring?
[16:29] <Quintasan> apachelogger: That's even more reason for us to work out a clear response to every change
[16:29] <Quintasan> I'm REALLY against even attempting to bother with Mir
[16:29] <Quintasan> and I'd shift all effort to debian
[16:30] <ovidiu-florin> Riddell: no, I'm on 12.04
[16:31] <ovidiu-florin> But I can Get A VM up and running
[16:31] <yofel> 12.04 is still building, will need testing in a bit
[16:31] <apachelogger> Quintasan: why is that?
[16:31] <ovidiu-florin> can 4.10.1 be tested in 12.04?
[16:32] <yofel> ovidiu-florin: not yet: http://yofel.dyndns.org/kubuntu/build_status_4.10.1_precise.html
[16:32] <Quintasan> apachelogger: As I said, I find Mir a waste of time and money and time
[16:33] <Quintasan> apachelogger: If they leave us without support for X/Wayland which the rest of the Open Source comunnity will probably adapt
[16:33] <Quintasan> and as the ml said, they will just sync it from Debian so we'd rather work on stuff in Debian and then just sync it
[16:33] <apachelogger> as I said earlier
[16:34] <apachelogger> unless Canonical wan'ts to cut all ties to the rest of the world they will have to have integrated X and/or Wayland support in Mir
[16:34] <apachelogger> just like weston/wayland has support for X
[16:34] <mgraesslin> apachelogger: it's different
[16:34] <mgraesslin> weston has support for X to run legacy apps
[16:34] <mgraesslin> Mir will do the same
[16:34] <yofel> Riddell: did you get what he just said?
[16:35] <apachelogger> how's it different then?
[16:35] <apachelogger> that's what I said :P
[16:35] <mgraesslin> but it doesn't mean that the underlying stack will support running a real X or a real Wayland
[16:35] <apachelogger> who cares about real?
[16:35] <mgraesslin> how do you want to run Wayland if the stack just doesn't support it
[16:35] <Quintasan> yofel: I did not if you ask me
[16:35] <Quintasan> xD
[16:35] <mgraesslin> apachelogger: I hope you care
[16:35] <yofel> :/
[16:35] <mgraesslin> because that's what you want to do: provide a Wayland based desktop environment
[16:36] <Riddell> yofel: "it'll cost us money"
[16:36] <apachelogger> mgraesslin: what I care about is facts
[16:36] <apachelogger> we do not know in which capacity Mir will support Wayland/X
[16:36] <Quintasan> What I actually care about is to release a sane distro
[16:36] <mgraesslin> apachelogger: right, at the moment that is unknown
[16:36] <apachelogger> we know that it will have to support apps using either of those in some capacity though
[16:36] <yofel> fun
[16:36] <mgraesslin> but it's canonical we are dealing with so prepare for the worst
[16:37] <apachelogger> also we do not know whether Mir perhaps would even become better than Wayland
[16:37] <Quintasan> lol
[16:37] <Quintasan> apachelogger: Unity > KDE -> Discuss.
[16:37] <apachelogger> you are playing on the very same bull shit plane as canonical there
[16:37] <apachelogger> in the mir spec it goes how wayland's input is crap because it's like X' and therefore is *likely* to exhibit the same problems
[16:37] <apachelogger> that's not a fact
[16:38] <mgraesslin> sorry, I just think that I have more competence in judging a windowing system than people at canonical
[16:38] <murthy> yofel: i made changes to debian folder like creating postinst and postrm scripts, i need to test build, i need to use the ninjas ppa and so i added the ppa to my pbuilder sources.list Now i am trying to install apt-transport-https package and it fails to fetch. Seems access is  denied. what should i  do?
[16:38] <apachelogger> in fact, the very fact that they use this as fact suggests that no one ever actually evaluated the situation to a degree that they can honest to god say wayland's input handling is crap
[16:38] <apachelogger> mgraesslin: fair enough
[16:38] <mgraesslin> given what they wrote I have zero trust in mir ever becoming better than Wayland
[16:39] <yofel> greeeeat.... "release 13.04 if you want, but it won't get any security support, so if you need updates use post-raring"
[16:39] <apachelogger> I just find it hugely shitty to dismiss stuff simply because you assume it to become crap
[16:39] <Quintasan> but it will be lol
[16:39] <apachelogger> and that appleis to your view of mir as well as mir's view of wayland
[16:39] <mgraesslin> no I dismiss it, because it's a distro only solution
[16:39] <Quintasan> please do tell that they have resources to pull it off
[16:39] <Darkwing> I'm starting to get worried
[16:39] <yofel> murthy: disable ppa again, install apt-transport-https, enable
[16:39] <mgraesslin> if it becomes available in other distributions I will reconsider
[16:40] <Darkwing> like unity?
[16:41] <Quintasan> As long as they don't force us to use anything they invent I don't mind
[16:41] <murthy> yofel: done that , after that it says some packages cannot be downloaded because of a missing public  key
[16:41] <Riddell> Darkwing: what about?
[16:41] <yofel> murthy: ignore that (or just add the key)
[16:42] <murthy> yofel: ok
[16:42] <Darkwing> if Ubuntu changes to mir. let's say in 2 years they stop with X. we could still ship it with Kubuntu via ppa but then we have to maintain it right?
[16:42] <Darkwing> I know its long term but....
[16:43] <mgraesslin> don't worry about X, worry about Wayland
[16:43] <Riddell> 21:49 < RAOF> sarnold: Heh, yes. I obviously can't commit to how long we'll be supporting X, but I don't see us dropping it in the next, say, decade.
[16:43] <Riddell> from #ubuntu-devel last night ⇈
[16:46] <Darkwing-2> Woah.
[16:48]  * mgraesslin wanted to say something to Darkwing-2 - let's try whether I can remember
[16:49] <Darkwing-2> Sorry, my quassel-core server dropped... trouble-shooting
[16:49] <mgraesslin> ah yes concerning X
[16:49] <mgraesslin> with X you have two solutions - with root and rootless
[16:49] <mgraesslin> what for the future everybody cares about is rootless, that is XWayland, XMir
[16:49] <mgraesslin> support for that will be eternity
[16:50] <ovidiu-florin> Darkwing-2: my znc server also dropped :(
[16:50] <mgraesslin> I expect that at KDE we will have to support that for at least 20 years
[16:50] <mgraesslin> but that's not the same as running on top of X Server
[16:50] <Riddell> 21:48 < RAOF> The same thing will apply here - you'll ~always be able to start an X server on the system compositor, it'll run nested, and KWin won't be any  the wiser.
[16:50] <Darkwing> back up
[16:50] <Riddell> also from last night ⇈
[16:50] <mgraesslin> Riddell: that's nonesense, as that means we are limited as we don't get access to the system
[16:50] <mgraesslin> KWin wants to be the system compositor
[16:51] <mgraesslin> not some system underneath
[16:51] <mgraesslin> that would seriously handicap KWin compared to Unity on the same distribution
[16:51] <mgraesslin> it needs to be able to run the KDE way - however that looks like
[16:52] <apachelogger> what does it have to do with mir then?
[16:52] <mgraesslin> consider mir having changes to the kernel/driver stack making it impossible to start up KWin
[16:52] <apachelogger> i.e. I don't see how Kubuntu would be using Mir unless supported and reasonable
[16:52] <mgraesslin> as far as I understood Mir is based on Android input model
[16:52] <mgraesslin> KWin will be based on the "Weston" input model
[16:53] <mgraesslin> so if Ubuntu throws out the parts to get input you have a problem
[16:53] <apachelogger> wouldn't that also break X then?
[16:54] <mgraesslin> no, what they use is XMir, which is like XWayland
[16:54] <mgraesslin> in that case the nested X gets the input from Mir/Wayland
[16:54] <apachelogger> don't get it
[16:54] <apachelogger> so with kwin/wayland it'll also get it from wayland, no?
[16:55] <mgraesslin> with kwin/wayland XClients will get the input from KWin, just like Wayland clients
[16:55]  * apachelogger scratches head
[16:55] <apachelogger> you know
[16:55] <mgraesslin> but with KWin/Wayland KWin will get input directly from the kernel
[16:55] <apachelogger> I should rant about all this simply because canonical makes my head explode on a weekly basis now
[16:55] <mgraesslin> http://wayland.freedesktop.org/architecture.html
[16:56] <mgraesslin> look at the architecture and replace "Wayland compositor" with KWin
[16:56] <mgraesslin> and in the X architecture "Compositor" with KWin
[16:57] <apachelogger> so they have to change evdev behavior?
[16:57] <yofel> so, session ended
[16:57]  * yofel isn't quite sure what *new* things he heard
[16:57] <apachelogger> mgraesslin: to break input that is
[16:57] <mgraesslin> apachelogger: that's how I understand it, they will use Android input model which probably means no evdev
[16:58] <apachelogger> well
[16:58] <apachelogger> that does not mean they'll remove evdev :P
[16:58] <smartboyhw> Riddell yofel what was the discussion result?
[16:58] <Riddell> UDS> no decisions
[16:58] <apachelogger> I mean, then they break everything that is not using xmir anyway
[16:58] <Riddell> which is fine, I don't think it's the best forum for decisions
[16:58] <apachelogger> at which point they have rendered their platform incompatible with every flavor distro the ubuntu project has
[16:58] <mgraesslin> apachelogger: right, doesn't matter for Unity
[16:58] <apachelogger> at which point we'd all go elsewhere
[16:59] <apachelogger> i.e. at that point the ubuntu project is dead
[16:59] <apachelogger> and there is only the ubuntu desktop product remaining
[16:59]  * mgraesslin has the feeling that Canonical is heading that road for the last two years already
[16:59]  * smartboyhw wonders if Riddell heard him
[16:59] <smartboyhw> lol
[16:59] <apachelogger> (not that I could nto imagine this happening)
[16:59] <apachelogger> but it really is a none-issue
[16:59] <yofel> smartboyhw: he answered you
[16:59] <Riddell> smartboyhw: heard who or what?
[17:00] <apachelogger> at the point where such a change gets introduced the project is dead to the free software world
[17:00] <yofel> smartboyhw: there wasn't really anything new
[17:00] <apachelogger> mgraesslin: no secret that they are trying to build a platform, think we even talked about it at some UDS ^^
[17:00] <smartboyhw> Riddell me
[17:01] <apachelogger> the ultimate question of course is whether that platform has anything to do with Linux/is compatible with a common Linux stack
[17:01] <smartboyhw> bah nothing new??????
[17:01] <Riddell> smartboyhw: what did you say?
[17:01] <Riddell> 17:01 < slangasek> Laney, Riddell: yes, I think there is a consensus to carry on with the release schedule as written for now
[17:02] <smartboyhw> Good
[17:02]  * smartboyhw wants a raring-ing ringtail
[17:03]  * mgraesslin needs food
[17:05] <apachelogger> Recommends: gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly
[17:05] <apachelogger>   * Recommend gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly as it seems to help with the
[17:05] <apachelogger>     phonon-gst issues
[17:05] <apachelogger> lawl
[17:05]  * apachelogger pokes yofel
[17:05] <apachelogger> nice workaround there
[17:05] <apachelogger> I hope you actually fixed the issue :P
[17:06] <yofel> no, it was muesly that requested that
[17:06] <apachelogger> ripping out of archive upload then
[17:06] <Darkwing> yofel: you get a mic to work in mumble?
[17:06] <apachelogger> murthy: your tomahawk branch needs merging with 0.6.0 it seems
[17:06] <apachelogger> also you should add a changelog entry I reckon
[17:06] <yofel> Darkwing: this is my work notebook, and I just noticed that the voice level is misconfigured
[17:07] <apachelogger>   * Build with -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=Release
[17:07] <apachelogger> yofel: why?
[17:07] <yofel> yet another thing I would need to read #tomahawk backlog for
[17:08] <apachelogger> and how do we get dbg symbols with a rlease build Oo
[17:08] <Quintasan> uhhh
[17:08] <apachelogger> yofel: plz be writing changelogs concerning why not what :P
[17:08] <Quintasan> we can't?
[17:08] <smartboyhw> lol
[17:08] <apachelogger> Quintasan: unless tomahawk's cmake is le broken in some weird way :P
[17:09] <yofel> well, there are some symbols *there*
[17:09] <Quintasan> at least it is not qmake
[17:09] <yofel> which is weird indeed
[17:09] <apachelogger> in RELEASE mode there should be no debug symbols
[17:10] <apachelogger> relwithdebinfo would build with release optimization but still create debug symbols (default I think)
[17:12] <yofel> Quintasan: hop onto mumble if you're already there
[17:12] <yofel> apachelogger: exactly
[17:13] <apachelogger> hm?
[17:13] <apachelogger> ah
[17:13] <apachelogger> -DBUILD_RELEASE
[17:13] <apachelogger> wondering what that flag does
[17:14] <apachelogger> murthy: debian/copyright is missing a newline at the end of file
[17:14] <apachelogger> murthy: please drop Recommends: gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly
[17:14] <apachelogger> murthy: please drop -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=Release (see if that breaks anything)
[17:15] <apachelogger> murthy: please add changelog entry and change maintainer to kubuntu devel or ubuntu devel (see any other package with an ubuntuX version)
[17:15] <apachelogger> otherwise good
[17:16] <apachelogger> sheytan: plymouth?
[17:16] <apachelogger> sheytan: about-kubuntu?
[17:16] <murthy> apachelogger: ok
[17:17] <murthy> apachelogger: give the target branch for merge
[17:17] <apachelogger> there is no target
[17:17] <apachelogger> murthy: lp:~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/tomhawk
[17:17] <murthy> apachelogger: ok
[17:18] <Darkwing> I'm the only one running for reelection?
[17:18] <apachelogger> my inbox!
[17:18] <yofel>   0 [2011-09-17 08:30] <muesli> you need to run cmake with -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=Release -DBUILD_RELEASE=ON
[17:18] <yofel>   1 [2011-09-17 08:31] <awainzin> oh, he's debug building, and getting assert abortion?
[17:18] <apachelogger> WAAAAH
[17:18] <apachelogger> Darkwing: yes
[17:18] <apachelogger> AH
[17:19] <apachelogger> murthy: drop -DBUILD_RELEASE=ON too please
[17:19] <murthy> apachelogger: ok
[17:19] <apachelogger> yofel: makes sense for ppa I guess
[17:19] <apachelogger> bug 1131636 <- lol
[17:20] <apachelogger> it's like every other qt update breaks that piece of unicorn sparkles
[17:20] <yofel> apachelogger: this is all I have, feel free to dig around: http://yofel.dyndns.org/ext/tomahawk-2013-03-05.txt
[17:22] <smartboyhw> apachelogger isn't that Sunday?
[17:22] <yofel>   0 [2011-12-07 14:18] <muesli> yofel: if you find the time, please do a new 0.3.3 package :-) please add gstreamer's ugly plugins to our deps. they seem to fix most of the gstreamer weirdness we're ex    periencing
[17:22] <yofel> probably we can drop that
[17:23] <apachelogger> bug 1144187
[17:23] <apachelogger> ?:O ? :O ? Oo ? :S ? :@ ? :(
[17:24] <yofel> ^^
[17:27] <smartboyhw> yofel please change the chan topic..
[17:27] <smartboyhw> Monday -> Sunday
[17:30] <yofel> also fine, turns out I don't I have time on saturday after all
[17:36] <Darkwing> I can't get filters working in KMail 4.8.5
[17:40] <ovidiu-florin> Darkwing: their working in 4.10
[17:41] <Darkwing> I'll need to figure out getting KDE updated in the LTS then.
[17:48] <murthy> yofel: is it ok if i do the 4.10.1 lintian correction works tomorrow morning?
[17:50] <BluesKaj> you guys put 4.10.1 inj th43 backports for testing ?
[17:50] <BluesKaj> in the
[17:50] <BluesKaj> making alot of typos with this splint on my wrist
[17:51] <murthy> BluesKaj: hi
[17:53] <BluesKaj> hi murthy
[18:02] <BluesKaj> is that 4.10.1 upgrade in the 13.04 backports? I don't see it
[18:05] <murthy> apachelogger: I am getting buid dep issues, shall i just commit the changes that you recommended or should i try solve it . In case of me solving, can i do it tomorrow morning?
[18:05] <apachelogger> resolve
[18:06] <apachelogger> we still have 2 days or so ^^
[18:07] <murthy> apachelogger: ok
[18:07] <murthy> apachelogger: what about the 4.10.1 lintian corrections, can that be done tomorrow?
[18:07] <apachelogger> not workign on .1
[18:07] <apachelogger> yofel: ^
[18:12] <murthy> Riddell: can the 4.10.1 lintian corrections work be done tomorrow ?
[18:13] <yofel> none of those are release critical so they don't have to be done fast
[18:14] <yofel> worst case we can fix them for 4.10.2
[18:15] <murthy> yofel: in that case can i go to bed?
[18:16] <apachelogger> Riddell: do you have push access to ubiquity?
[18:17] <apachelogger> nvm
[18:19] <yofel> murthy: go ahead
[18:19] <yofel> and good night :)
[18:19] <murthy> yofel: good night
[18:20] <apachelogger> yofel: do we have a pykde fix wrt py2 vs. py3 btw?
[18:27] <yofel> apachelogger: I have a fix for py2
[18:27] <yofel> JontheEchidna: Scott said you had some py3 kcm lying around, where is that?
[18:27] <JontheEchidna> sec
[18:28] <JontheEchidna> yofel: https://code.launchpad.net/~echidnaman/+junk/kde-config-drivers
[18:28] <yofel> thansk
[18:28] <yofel> *thanks
[18:28] <JontheEchidna> yofel: sudo make install; kbuildsycoca4; kcmshell4 kde-config-drivers
[18:29] <JontheEchidna> you may have to fiddle with the X-KDE-Library key/value pair in kde-config-drivers.desktop
[18:30] <JontheEchidna> I'll be afk for ~15 minutes, bbiab
[18:31] <apachelogger> raring looks really really raw :S
[18:31] <apachelogger> sheytan: !
[18:40] <lordievader> Good evening
[18:49] <Riddell> apachelogger: yes I can commit to ubiquity
[18:49] <Riddell> murthy_: it can be done any time
[18:49] <apachelogger> Riddell: you already fixed the kwin compisiting though :)
[18:49] <apachelogger> yay Riddell :)
[19:02] <yofel> ok, JontheEchidna's kcm says hello world and shows an empty window.
[19:02] <yofel> works I guess
[19:02] <JontheEchidna> yup
[19:02] <JontheEchidna> that's all I could get done, since the plugin loading was broken
[19:03] <yofel> kpython3pluginfactory needs to be kpythonpluginfactory
[19:03] <JontheEchidna> ok
[19:04] <JontheEchidna> cool
[19:04] <Guest88209> Plastmate 1.0 is out. Will this be packaged for Kubuntu backports?
[19:05] <apachelogger> yofel: huh?
[19:05] <yofel> yes, as soon as someone gets to it (bug 1147193)
[19:05] <apachelogger> yofel: how does kpythonpluginfactory work with py3vspy2? Oo
[19:06] <yofel> apachelogger: python3 has that stupid py3 abi tag, seems like looks for that when loading the SO
[19:06] <Guest88209> cool
[19:06] <apachelogger> Oo
[19:06] <apachelogger> spooky
[19:06] <apachelogger> actualy
[19:06] <apachelogger> weird
[19:06] <apachelogger> yofel: how do they not conflict then?
[19:07] <yofel> py2 is kpythonpluginfactory.so, py3 is kpythonpluginfactory.cpython-33m.so
[19:07] <apachelogger> lawl
[19:08] <apachelogger> fair enough
[19:15] <yofel> hm...
[19:18] <yofel> apachelogger: actually not
[19:18] <yofel> still broken -.-
[19:18] <yofel> the kcm simply didn't use anything python3 specific, that's why it worked
[19:50] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: you don't track libqapt on bugs.kde?
[19:50] <apachelogger> yofel: I was wondering... :P
[19:50] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: I do, but for some reason the kde sysadmins made me put it in the muon product
[19:51] <apachelogger> how would the pluginloader know which version to use
[19:51] <apachelogger> ah
[19:51] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: thx
[19:51] <yofel> apachelogger: on the positive side: now python3 is broken. which should be the more acceptable state for raring at least
[19:52] <apachelogger> might as well not have it when it is broken anyway :P
[19:52] <yofel> well, python3-kde4 itself works
[19:53] <yofel> just kpythonpluginfactory not
[19:53] <apachelogger> right
[19:53] <apachelogger> poor plasma
[19:53] <yofel> I'll care about that the moment I see a python3 plasma widget
[19:54] <apachelogger> lawl
[19:54] <yofel> I'll try to fix this anyway though
[19:54] <apachelogger> and then we have to do massive SRUs :P
[19:54] <yofel> but no idea how and no idea till when
[19:54] <apachelogger> as I said... that is very much an upstream issue that needs to be addressed upstream
[19:55] <yofel> yeah. Maybe I'll send them an angry mail
[19:55] <yofel> on second though, not too angry
[19:55] <yofel> *thought
[20:33] <soee> good evening
[20:36] <soee> Riddell, can i install 4.10.1 to test it ?
[20:41] <soee> shadeslayer,
[20:45] <soee> yofel, ? :)
[21:02] <Riddell> soee: yo
[21:02] <Riddell> soee: what release?
[21:02] <soee> Riddell, rarring
[21:03] <Riddell> soee: groovy, go forth and test
[21:03] <apachelogger> http://wstaw.org/m/2013/03/05/plasma-desktopmu2213.png
[21:04] <apachelogger> hello akonadi
[21:05] <Riddell> up and down up and down, looks like a chart of my energy levels :)
[21:10] <apachelogger> well, it is a curious thing because a) each spike represents a folder that is synced and the height apparently relates to how much mails are in that folder
[21:12] <apachelogger> also the highest spike hit my artifical bandwith limit
[21:14] <soee> :< transfer is soooo slooow
[21:38] <soee> reeboot
[21:42] <yofel> raring and quantal work fine for me
[22:05] <Riddell> https://plus.google.com/115130660395556787952/posts/5eNxFFXCCt4  "How technology decisions are made at Canonical."
[22:06] <Riddell> hmm, soee disappeared
[22:06] <Riddell> skaet: looks like I saved raring
[22:07] <skaet> Riddell,  well done!
[22:08] <Riddell> skaet: how will no releases affect linaro?
[22:08]  * skaet is in HK at Connect this week, and is seriously grumpy about the timing of the virtual sessions
[22:09] <Riddell> skaet: but you had half a week's notice!  that's plenty time! </sarcasm>
[22:09] <Riddell> actually I'm being unfair it was a full week
[22:09] <skaet> Riddell,   trying to assess that here right now in conversations with folk here at Connec
[22:11] <skaet> issue is they knew Connect was happening,  why didn't they push it out a week so that the ARM community folks who care about Ubuntu could participate?
[22:13] <skaet> a lot of the areas evolving - phones, tablet, dense arm based servers are arm based, and alot of those folk are participating at VERY full week here.
[22:25] <skaet> hardware manufacturers have different requirements than the traditional desktop market,  and I think they should be participating in the discussion of release cadence if we're trying to move the project to be more friendly to those targets.
[22:30] <apachelogger> everything is expected to move so fast :(
[22:30] <apachelogger> change makes me dizzy
[23:19] <apachelogger> http://wstaw.org/m/2013/03/06/plasma-desktopae2213.png
[23:20] <yofel> your system's alive. Isn't that good...
[23:21] <apachelogger> so silly
[23:21] <yofel> !testers | 4.10.1 finished building on precise if someone has the time to test it
[23:34] <ScottK> Riddell: Not much.
[23:34] <Riddell> ScottK: what's that in answer to?
[23:35] <ScottK> Would I kill you if you uploaded Qscintilla2 without the symbols file.
[23:36] <Riddell> ok, I can live with not much, I've already lived through a bit of being killed already
[23:37] <ScottK> skellat: Unsaid in the public discussions, but I suspect they plan to make OEM specific private LP derivatives of rolling for different manufacturers.
[23:37] <ScottK> skellat: Nevermind
[23:37] <ScottK> That was meant for skaet.
[23:37] <ScottK> Bah.
[23:43]  * Riddell uploads 4.10.1 to raring
[23:47] <Riddell> http://blogs.kde.org/2013/03/05/1304-go-ahead
[23:52] <jessie> So what does Mir mean for Kubuntu?
[23:52] <apachelogger> nothing much right now
[23:53] <jessie> apachelogger: And in a year?
[23:53] <apachelogger> Riddell, yofel, ScottK, shadeslayer: feedback on trello?
[23:53] <Riddell> just have to hope it does get in the way
[23:53] <Riddell> apachelogger: I'm liking it so far
[23:53] <Riddell> not explored it fully I suspect
[23:54] <apachelogger> mostly straight forward anyway
[23:54] <apachelogger> I'll drop a mail to the list so that everyone is aware of us using it, suppose we should evaluate whether to continue using it after release
[23:54] <Riddell> yep, thanks
[23:55] <apachelogger> I think featurewise it fits our workflows pretty well, particularly since it does not really impose a way you have to use it
[23:58] <apachelogger> wendar: FWIW 'monthly snapshot' does sound more agile ;)


[23:42] <awilkins> Wifelet is still using a 3310 candybar but she's ready to throw it out the window now - needs a new phone that befits her new job
[23:42] <nucc1> one that needs charging every 3 hours :)
[23:42] <nucc1> he he.
[23:42] <hamitron> what you get for playing snake all the time ;/
[23:43] <nucc1> saw a blog post somewhere about some dude in IT support lamenting the case of a lady who returned her blackberry that the battery wasn't good.
[23:43] <nucc1> she was used to her old candybar lasting 3 days.
[23:43] <nucc1> and the "upgrade" became a less than a full-day device
[23:44] <hamitron> anyways
[23:44] <hamitron> I need coffee
[23:44] <hamitron> brb :)
[23:44] <nucc1> i need yogurt. off to the fridge
[23:44] <awilkins> I had to learn to manage my running application profile to get a full day :-)
[23:51] <hamitron> bk
[23:51] <hamitron> anyone tried Windows Thin PC CTP yet?
[23:55] <HazRPG> \o/ hamitron
[23:55] <HazRPG> nope...
[23:55] <HazRPG> why?
[23:56] <hamitron> just wondering
[23:56] <hamitron> gonna try it
[23:56] <hamitron> :)