[00:25] <tarvid_> I want to backup certain directories to U1. What is the best way? symlinks?
[12:20] <tarvid_> I want to backup /root /home and /etc from two headless servers to ubuntuone
[12:21] <tarvid_> what is the best way to point two syncs of three directories


[00:04] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: mutter (zesty-proposed/universe) [3.24.1-0ubuntu1 => 3.24.2-0ubuntu0.1] (desktop-extra, edubuntu, ubuntugnome)
[07:54] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted ubuntu-fan [source] (zesty-proposed) [<IP_ADDRESS>]
[08:59] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New source: unity-mail (artful-proposed/primary) [<IP_ADDRESS>]
[09:34] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: qemu (zesty-proposed/main) [1:2.8+dfsg-3ubuntu2.2 => 1:2.8+dfsg-3ubuntu2.3] (ubuntu-server, virt)
[09:47] <ginggs> Morning!  Would someone please update p.itti's hints file and force-badtest r-cran-dplyr/0.5.0-1ubuntu2/armhf instead of r-cran-dplyr/0.5.0-1 ?
[11:40] <apw> ginggs, why are we not caring about armhf in that context ?
[11:41] <apw> (given the other arches became happy)
[11:49] <ginggs> apw: other arches became happy because I fixed a test that always failed, armhf seems to be a different problem and it is not new
[11:52] <apw> ginggs, hmmm, ok i guess
[11:54] <ginggs> apw: i figured happy tests on most arches are better than force-badtest everywhere
[11:54] <apw> ginggs, yep i guess it is
[11:54] <apw> and done
[11:55] <ginggs> apw: thanks!
[12:06] <ginggs> i think pixbros and pixfrogger require some removal from artful, they were arch:all, now 32-bit only - the 64-bit arches are complaining of missing builds
[12:10] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: linux-signed [amd64] (zesty-proposed/main) [4.10.0-22.24] (core, kernel)
[13:28] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted linux-signed [amd64] (zesty-proposed) [4.10.0-22.24]
[15:15] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: grub2 (yakkety-proposed/main) [2.02~beta2-36ubuntu11.2 => 2.02~beta2-36ubuntu11.3] (core)
[15:54] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: netcfg (xenial-proposed/main) [1.135ubuntu4.2 => 1.135ubuntu4.3] (core)
[17:17] <slangasek> tsimonq2: so, was there a plan forward on how to make the lubuntu-next images buildable, now that we flagged that they were trying to use a non-existent task?
[19:18] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: lxc (trusty-proposed/main) [2.0.7-0ubuntu1~14.04.1 => 1.0.10-0ubuntu1] (ubuntu-server)
[20:02] <slangasek> infinity, apw, wgrant, cjwatson, stgraber: any of you care to give feedback on https://code.launchpad.net/~vorlon/ddeb-retriever/python3/+merge/324233 ?
[20:38] <tsimonq2> slangasek: Just needs an MP approved.
[20:38] <tsimonq2> slangasek: I wanted feedback from gilir, he requested some changes, and I pushed the changes.
[20:38] <slangasek> ok
[21:03] <tsimonq2> slangasek: Since you're part of Core Dev, mind having a look? https://code.launchpad.net/~tsimonq2/livecd-rootfs/proper-task-names/+merge/324017
[21:11] <slangasek> tsimonq2: weren't we trying to get away from the no-install-recommends, even for lubuntu? <-- infinity
[21:16] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: nplan (xenial-proposed/universe) [0.21~16.04.1 => 0.22~16.04.1] (no packageset)
[21:39] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: gnome-software (zesty-proposed/main) [3.22.7-0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS> => 3.22.7-0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>] (ubuntu-desktop)
[21:50] <cjwatson> slangasek: +1 with some extra suggestions
[22:50] <infinity> slangasek: That was, indeed, a goal, but I'm not going to force it on them either.
[22:54] <slangasek> k. tsimonq2: merged
[22:54] <slangasek> hngh no changelog entry for it, hohum
[23:09] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: r-bioc-genomeinfodbdata [amd64] (artful-proposed/universe) [0.99.0-1] (no packageset)


[01:02] <xnox> slangasek, boot-smoke tests, after a few reboots detects that network-manager fails to start. thus i am suspecting the new network-manager is toast.
[01:02] <xnox> Aug 02 00:59:46 normal nm-online[473]: Error: Could not create NMClient object: Timeout was reached
[01:03] <xnox> bdmurray, is that similar to what whoopsie saw ^
[01:03] <xnox> cause e.g. it looks like NetworkManager-wait-online.service is affected
[01:08] <slangasek> xnox: was the new nm toast before?
[01:09] <xnox> as per autopkgtest.ubuntu.com it did manage to pass with old systemd.
[01:10] <slangasek> then what makes it toast now?
[01:17] <xnox> as far as i can see, it is racy, and when NetworkManager.service claims the bus, it is not yet ready to take connections, thus NetworkManager-wait-online.service fails.
[01:18] <xnox> i'm not sure if this is normal in unpriviledged container, but with network-manager installed, it boots degraded.
[01:18] <xnox> also i'm not sure if this is a valid test at all, to install network-manager and expect the system to boot non-degraded. i guess it is, even if NM is not managing anything.
[01:20] <xnox> also rtkit-daemon and systemd-hostnamed fail.
[03:25] <bdmurray> xnox: no
[05:17] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: cockpit (zesty-backports/universe) [146-1~ubuntu17.04.1 => 147-1~ubuntu17.04.1] (no packageset)
[05:18] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: cockpit (xenial-backports/universe) [146-1~ubuntu16.04.1 => 147-1~ubuntu16.04.1] (no packageset)
[05:22] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted cockpit [source] (xenial-backports) [147-1~ubuntu16.04.1]
[05:22] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted cockpit [source] (zesty-backports) [147-1~ubuntu17.04.1]
[06:04] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted libglvnd [amd64] (artful-proposed) [0.2.999+git20170201-4]
[06:04] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted libglvnd [i386] (artful-proposed) [0.2.999+git20170201-4]
[06:04] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted libglvnd [s390x] (artful-proposed) [0.2.999+git20170201-4]
[06:04] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted mythtv [arm64] (artful-proposed) [2:29.0+fixes.20170728.696806310a-0ubuntu1]
[06:04] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted mythtv [i386] (artful-proposed) [2:29.0+fixes.20170728.696806310a-0ubuntu1]
[06:04] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted mythtv [s390x] (artful-proposed) [2:29.0+fixes.20170728.696806310a-0ubuntu1]
[06:04] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted libglvnd [armhf] (artful-proposed) [0.2.999+git20170201-4]
[06:04] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted mythtv [amd64] (artful-proposed) [2:29.0+fixes.20170728.696806310a-0ubuntu1]
[06:04] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted mythtv [ppc64el] (artful-proposed) [2:29.0+fixes.20170728.696806310a-0ubuntu1]
[06:04] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted libglvnd [ppc64el] (artful-proposed) [0.2.999+git20170201-4]
[06:04] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted mythtv [armhf] (artful-proposed) [2:29.0+fixes.20170728.696806310a-0ubuntu1]
[08:00] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Lubuntu Desktop amd64 [Xenial 16.04.3] has been marked as ready
[08:00] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Lubuntu Desktop i386 [Xenial 16.04.3] has been marked as ready
[10:00] <xnox> cyphermox, infinity - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debian-installer/+bug/1708096 =(
[10:02] <infinity> xnox: Might be the prep-finddev (or whatever it is) thing not being clever enough.  Probably has nothing to do with jfs.
[10:03] <xnox> infinity, i have a deja vu that it was fixed before with similar bug title.
[10:04] <infinity> xnox: Probably more likely to be the multi-disk setup.  But I'll give it a spin on a VM and see.
[10:04] <xnox> e.g. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/partman-prep/+bug/1630017
[10:05] <xnox> which is incomplete.
[10:06] <infinity> "grub-install: error: unknown filesystem."
[10:06] <infinity> Oh.
[10:06] <infinity> Maybe our grub isn't built with jfs support?
[10:09] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted nova [source] (xenial-proposed) [2:13.1.4-0ubuntu2]
[10:09] <infinity> Not sure why we support installing to jfs anyway.  Even IBM spent year advocating xfs over jfs (and they WROTE jfs).
[10:10] <infinity> s/year/years/
[10:10] <cjwatson> jfs isn't in the signed image, but that shouldn't affect grub-install
[10:10] <cjwatson> (nor POWER ...)
[10:11] <cjwatson> AFAIK the jfs module is built unconditionally
[10:11] <cjwatson> my bet would be an endianness bug
[10:11] <cjwatson> or something like that
[10:12] <infinity> The bug looks even more whacky in that second one.
[10:12] <infinity> Things randomly dying and/or OOMing, but only with root on jfs.
[10:12] <cjwatson> to debug GRUB, I'd suggest making a loop fs on a real system of the right arch, and playing around with grub-fstest
[10:13] <cjwatson> (probably not actually endianness since ppc64el == x86 on that score)
[10:13] <infinity> cjwatson: If it's the same as the second bug above, I don't think it's grub at all, grub's just a victim.
[10:13] <infinity> Though, endianness bugs in an IBM-authored filesystem on ppc64el wouldn't be weird either.
[10:14] <infinity> Since there's a whole lot of ppc64 == be that's needed to be cleaned up.
[10:14] <cjwatson> yeah, I didn't look at all closely
[10:15] <cjwatson> the GRUB JFS module wasn't written by IBM
[10:15] <cjwatson> and it does appear to have at least some endian handling
[10:16] <cjwatson> but yeah, could be a bug in the filesystem that grub-install is running from, and as you say it's just a victim
[10:28] <sil2100> infinity: if anything, I'll be doing some test runs for mythubuntu in some moments, just mentioning so not to duplicate testing too muchy
[10:38] <infinity> sil2100: Is "muchy" a Trump word?
[10:38] <infinity> sil2100: I look forward to you test results, bigly.
[10:40] <sil2100> If it is then Trump is strange
[10:40] <sil2100> (almost done with the changelog as well)
[10:41] <xnox> infinity, ok, i shall request logs and if it is OOMing for the report, they really should fix that.
[10:42] <infinity> xnox: I think OOMing was a suspicion of cyphermox's, but perhaps not the actual case.
[10:42] <infinity> xnox: Still, the original bug report lacks anyone actually finding a cause.
[10:42] <xnox> ok, but we do need logs from the installer. thus it is fair to request installer logs in the new bug report, and mark it incomplete.
[10:43] <xnox> cause we do need to see which system it is, how much memory it has, if there are OOM in syslog or not.
[10:43] <xnox> and the new one lacks details too.
[10:45] <infinity> The new one has logs.
[10:51] <infinity> win 18
[11:37] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: rejected cloud-init [source] (xenial-proposed) [0.7.9-233-ge586fe35-0ubuntu1~16.04.1]
[11:43] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted update-manager [source] (xenial-proposed) [1:16.04.8]
[11:45] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted update-manager [source] (trusty-proposed) [1:0.196.24]
[11:46] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted update-manager [source] (zesty-proposed) [1:17.04.5]
[11:52] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted libapache2-mod-auth-pgsql [source] (xenial-proposed) [2.0.3-6.1ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>]
[11:53] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted libapache2-mod-auth-pgsql [source] (trusty-proposed) [2.0.3-6ubuntu0.1]
[11:55] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted gtk+2.0 [source] (zesty-proposed) [2.24.31-1ubuntu1.1]
[11:55] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted libapache2-mod-auth-pgsql [source] (zesty-proposed) [2.0.3-6.1ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>]
[12:12] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Ubuntu Kylin Desktop amd64 [Xenial 16.04.3] has been marked as ready
[12:12] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Ubuntu Kylin Desktop i386 [Xenial 16.04.3] has been marked as ready
[13:22] <sergiusens> apw: hey, ubuntu-image adt tests are failing on the snapcraft upload, which are not related to the snapcraft upload, sil2100 just told me there is an ubuntu-image upload which is unreviewed still which would fix it, since I fancy green results, is there a change you can accept it into -proposed? (1.1 has the fix)
[13:23] <sil2100> Yeah, it seems that in the CVE quick-fix we made we missed adding fakeroot to the test deps
[13:23] <sil2100> The new 1.1 that's in the queue should be good for everything
[13:23] <sil2100> There's already a 1.1 in -proposed but it's busted because of other reasons ;p
[13:23] <sil2100> So the re-upload is meant to fix the world
[13:23] <cyphermox> infinity: xnox: OOMing as the cause of JFS fails? I don't remember enough
[13:24] <cyphermox> oh, I see
[13:26] <sil2100> apw, sergiusens: the ubuntu-image in the queue should be rather straightforward to review as 1.1 was already been reviewed and accepted once, this is the same changes + an autopkgtest skipped
[13:27] <cyphermox> cjwatson: IIRC, not endianness either, IIRC; I was also able to install with JFS on ppc64el; as I recall it only crashed for the reporter, and possibly only when multipath is in play
[13:27] <cyphermox> infinity: I think this matches what you saw? ^
[13:27] <clivejo> how often is artful sync'ed with debian?
[13:28] <sil2100> infinity: oh, didn't know security could still push new packages to -updates/-security during the freeze - or is the webkit2gtk upload release-critical?
[13:28] <apw> sil2100, security has a life of its very own
[13:30] <infinity> sil2100: Yeah, they never pay attention to my freezes.
[13:30] <infinity> sil2100: But we'll just pretend that didn't happen, unless there's a reason to respin.
[13:33] <sil2100> ;p
[13:35] <cjwatson> clivejo: every six hours
[13:35] <rbasak> arges: o/
[13:35] <rbasak> arges: I was about to start looking at SRUs. Realised I was still marked away.
[13:35] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted gtk+2.0 [source] (xenial-proposed) [2.24.30-1ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>]
[13:36] <rbasak> arges: shall I leave it to you for a while?
[13:36] <clivejo> do new packages go into Ubuntu new queue or bypass it?
[13:41] <cjwatson> clivejo: auto-synced new source packages bypass the new queue; the resulting binary packages require a semi-automatic rubber stamp
[13:42] <clivejo> cool :)
[14:26] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: syslog-ng [ppc64el] (artful-proposed/universe) [3.10.1-3ubuntu1] (no packageset)
[14:26] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: syslog-ng [s390x] (artful-proposed/universe) [3.10.1-3ubuntu1] (no packageset)
[14:28] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: syslog-ng [amd64] (artful-proposed/universe) [3.10.1-3ubuntu1] (no packageset)
[14:28] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: syslog-ng [i386] (artful-proposed/universe) [3.10.1-3ubuntu1] (no packageset)
[14:29] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: syslog-ng [arm64] (artful-proposed/universe) [3.10.1-3ubuntu1] (no packageset)
[14:29] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: syslog-ng [armhf] (artful-proposed/universe) [3.10.1-3ubuntu1] (no packageset)
[15:35] <slangasek> sil2100: lp:~sil2100/ubuntu-archive-tools/plus-sign-review, you made this code change locally and empirically tested that it fixed sru-review for gtk+2.0 (which is now no longer in the queue)?
[15:36] <sil2100> slangasek: yes, used it to review it, tried a few others in the queue to see if the debdiffs are downloadable - works
[15:36] <sil2100> I don't see a reason for the quote() there, but maybe I don't know the full story
[15:36] <slangasek> sil2100: yeah, '+' is the only legal char in a package name that *might* be url encoded
[15:37] <slangasek> sil2100: merged, thanks
[15:37] <sil2100> slangasek: thanks for the review!
[15:37] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: ubuntu-drivers-common (zesty-proposed/main) [1:0.4.22 => 1:<IP_ADDRESS>] (desktop-core, ubuntu-server)
[15:49] <cjwatson> sil2100,slangasek: I have filled in the archaeology that you were missing :)
[15:53] <cjwatson> (no changes required, you just may be interested)
[15:53] <slangasek> cjwatson: righty-o
[15:55] <cjwatson> some day I must get my job title changed to Programmer-Archaeologist
[15:56] <sil2100> ;)
[15:56] <slangasek> Raiders of the Lost Archive
[16:27] <bdmurray> arges: Can you update your version of ubuntu-archive-tools to get the changes to sru-review?
[17:10] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: libjwt [ppc64el] (artful-proposed/universe) [1.8.0+dfsg-1] (no packageset)
[17:11] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: libjwt [s390x] (artful-proposed/universe) [1.8.0+dfsg-1] (no packageset)
[17:11] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: dtksettings [s390x] (artful-proposed/universe) [0.1.7-1] (no packageset)
[17:12] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: dtksettings [amd64] (artful-proposed/universe) [0.1.7-1] (no packageset)
[17:12] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: libjwt [amd64] (artful-proposed/universe) [1.8.0+dfsg-1] (no packageset)
[17:13] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: python-coloredlogs [amd64] (artful-proposed/universe) [7.1-1] (no packageset)
[17:13] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: python-dropbox [amd64] (artful-proposed/universe) [8.0.0-1] (no packageset)
[17:17] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: mathgl [ppc64el] (artful-proposed/universe) [2.4.1-2] (no packageset)
[17:17] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: libjwt [i386] (artful-proposed/universe) [1.8.0+dfsg-1] (no packageset)
[17:19] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: mathgl [s390x] (artful-proposed/universe) [2.4.1-2] (no packageset)
[17:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: dtksettings [arm64] (artful-proposed/universe) [0.1.7-1] (no packageset)
[17:33] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: libjwt [armhf] (artful-proposed/universe) [1.8.0+dfsg-1] (no packageset)
[17:35] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: libjwt [arm64] (artful-proposed/universe) [1.8.0+dfsg-1] (no packageset)
[17:35] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: mathgl [armhf] (artful-proposed/universe) [2.4.1-2] (no packageset)
[17:36] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: mathgl [amd64] (artful-proposed/universe) [2.4.1-2] (no packageset)
[17:37] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: pollinate (xenial-proposed/main) [4.23-0ubuntu1~16.04.1 => 4.25-0ubuntu1~16.04.1] (ubuntu-server)
[17:40] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: mathgl [i386] (artful-proposed/universe) [2.4.1-2] (no packageset)
[17:46] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: mathgl [arm64] (artful-proposed/universe) [2.4.1-2] (no packageset)
[18:38] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: pollinate (trusty-proposed/main) [4.23-0ubuntu1~14.04.2 => 4.25-0ubuntu1~14.04.1] (no packageset)
[19:44] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: gcc-7-cross-ports [i386] (artful-proposed/main) [3ubuntu2] (ubuntu-desktop)
[19:47] <slangasek> "only" 1500 autopkgtests in the queue on amd64
[19:53] <apw> slangasek, just over 8.6k en-toto
[19:54] <slangasek> that's good progress, hey; I estimated things'd be clogged until Friday
[22:20] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: gcc-7-cross-ports [amd64] (artful-proposed/main) [3ubuntu2] (ubuntu-desktop)
[23:04] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted dtksettings [amd64] (artful-proposed) [0.1.7-1]
[23:04] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted dtksettings [s390x] (artful-proposed) [0.1.7-1]
[23:04] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted libjwt [arm64] (artful-proposed) [1.8.0+dfsg-1]
[23:04] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted libjwt [i386] (artful-proposed) [1.8.0+dfsg-1]
[23:04] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted libjwt [s390x] (artful-proposed) [1.8.0+dfsg-1]
[23:04] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted mathgl [arm64] (artful-proposed) [2.4.1-2]
[23:04] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted mathgl [i386] (artful-proposed) [2.4.1-2]
[23:04] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted mathgl [s390x] (artful-proposed) [2.4.1-2]
[23:04] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted python-dropbox [amd64] (artful-proposed) [8.0.0-1]
[23:04] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted dtksettings [arm64] (artful-proposed) [0.1.7-1]
[23:04] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted libjwt [armhf] (artful-proposed) [1.8.0+dfsg-1]
[23:04] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted mathgl [amd64] (artful-proposed) [2.4.1-2]
[23:04] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted mathgl [ppc64el] (artful-proposed) [2.4.1-2]
[23:04] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted libjwt [amd64] (artful-proposed) [1.8.0+dfsg-1]
[23:04] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted mathgl [armhf] (artful-proposed) [2.4.1-2]
[23:04] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted libjwt [ppc64el] (artful-proposed) [1.8.0+dfsg-1]
[23:04] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted python-coloredlogs [amd64] (artful-proposed) [7.1-1]
[23:10] <xnox> somehow my all proposed test is installing new systemd, but old udev.
[23:11] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: node-libs-browser [amd64] (artful-proposed/none) [2.0.0-1] (no packageset)
[23:13] <slangasek> heh
[23:44] <xnox> slangasek, systemd and udev do not depend on each other, although both are priority important. In debian, udev is statically linked against libsystemd-private instead of dynamically to avoid a hard-dep between udev and systemd.
[23:45] <xnox> is it ok to dynamically link udev against libsystemd-private, and thus make a hard dep between bin:udev and bin:systemd? I believe bin:libudev1 should be unaffected by the change.
[23:45] <xnox> also, i think I need to change debian/tests/control to include udev everywhere. As testing new systemd with old udev makes no sense to me.
[23:46] <xnox> also i do not believe the two are truelly independant.
[23:46] <xnox> so the only test that failed for me on amd64 is boot-and-services which said that udevamd version is wrong 233 vs 234.
[23:47] <xnox> i ran the tests as:
[23:47] <xnox> autopkgtest -B systemd --apt-pocket=proposed --shell --shell-fail -ddd -- qemu ./adt-artful-amd64-cloud.img
[23:47] <xnox> hmm... missed --apt-upgrade
[23:50] <slangasek> xnox: I don't understand why you would need to do this when they are from the same source package and should be affected by the same apt pin
[23:50] <slangasek> is udev oddly blacklisted in the autopkgtest infra?
[23:51] <xnox> no idea. but, none of the debian/tests/control tests specify udev at all, only systemd. thus in theory we are not testing udev at all. thus all the apt mark pins stuff doesn't specify anything for udev.
[23:51] <slangasek> a
[23:51] <slangasek> ah
[23:51] <xnox> usually one does @ thing which means all built binaries.
[23:52] <xnox> i am thinking it is prudent to put udev into all the paragraphs in debian/tests/control, in addition to systemd.
[23:52] <slangasek> well, why does having the mismatch cause things to fail?
[23:53] <slangasek> if it causes things to fail because you actually are testing udev, then I guess you should depend on udev
[23:53] <xnox> udevadm --version reports wrong thing
[23:53] <xnox> there is test to make sure that udevadm --version matches the version specified in systemd.pc pkg-config file.
[23:53] <slangasek> right, then the test should dep on udev :)
[23:54]  * xnox wonders if we ever managed to migrate new major systemd version without an override
[23:54] <xnox> also it uses nested kvm =/
[23:54] <xnox> however, i do have green on ppc64el and s390x now =) so all arches i care about are perfect =)
[23:56] <nacc> xnox: i think i figured out the open-iscsi failure in a-p, there's a test to see if iscsid has started, and it will fail with the new systemd constraints on directories existing indicating iscsi is actually in use. Seems reasonable to just drop that test, right? I'm asking smoser about it as well, to be sure
[23:56] <mwhudson> is that because the tests skip on those arches?
[23:56] <xnox> but about shared link stuff, typically we do have both systemd and udev running, and linking libsystemd-private dynamically may reduce the size of udev binary. I shall check that.
[23:57] <xnox> nacc, which tests are these? the ones in src:open-iscsi ? and yes makes sense to drop it.
[23:57] <xnox> nacc, or the tests should setup the test bed, to make iscsi daemon _in_use_ and check that it is autostarted on reboot.
[23:57] <xnox> no?
[23:57]  * xnox ponders if that is at all possible to do within a scope of a single machine.
[23:57] <xnox> export and mount something on the same host?!
[23:59] <nacc> xnox: yeah, dep8 in open-iscsi
[23:59] <nacc> xnox: yeah, it uses nested kvm, i think, to do that
[23:59] <nacc> xnox: so we could defer the test until the iscsi disks are setup and then see if in the nested it is running/startable/stoppable


[19:54] <ibeardslee> morning
[20:30] <ajmitch> morning
[20:39] <olly_> morning
[22:30] <kcj> Morning.


[13:48] <lduros> I noticed a whole lot of commits have a wrong email address
[13:48] <lduros> when i look at the log
[13:48] <lduros> is there a way to fix this? :-)
[13:49] <vork> Yeah. Make a new E-mail account. ;-)
[13:53] <lduros> ??
[13:53] <lduros> but that wouldn't change the commits in the past
[13:53] <vork> So that the wrong E-mail addresses become right :D
[13:53] <lduros> would it?
[13:53] <vork> Joke.
[13:53] <lduros> :-P
[14:13] <LarstiQ> lduros: not without removing old commits and making new ones
[14:13] <lduros> LarstiQ: hmm ok, that sucks
[14:13] <lduros> I don't think I want to recreate commits
[14:14] <lduros> sinon ct bien la fete
[14:14] <lduros> oups
[14:14] <lduros> wrong window
[14:14] <LarstiQ> lduros: there is machinery to make it easier, but yeah. I'd just live with it :)
[14:14] <lduros> LarstiQ: ok, thanks :-)
[14:16] <LarstiQ> there are some funny commiter ids in the bzr codebase that way too
[14:19] <lduros> haha


[01:26] <mup> Bug #1997190 opened: Power parameters access attempt from non-db thread <MAAS:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1997190>
[01:44] <mup> Bug #1997191 opened: Uncatched exception when configuring DNS <MAAS:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1997191>
[01:53] <mup> Bug #1997191 changed: Uncatched exception when configuring DNS <MAAS:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1997191>
[01:56] <mup> Bug #1997191 opened: Uncatched exception when configuring DNS <MAAS:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1997191>
[22:26] <mup> Bug #1997281 opened: machine.count fails for new filter options <MAAS:In Progress by alexsander-souza> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1997281>


[12:28] <jbicha> please reject the earlier gnome-control-center 1:41.7-0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS> from jammy/unapproved . I just uploaded an updated SRU
[14:20] <dbungert> sil2100: if I push a subiquity snap to latest/stable/ubuntu-22.04.1, will that appear in the point release ISOs?
[15:31] <athos> Hi ubuntu-archive, could anyone have a look at LP: #1980695 regarding removing the pgloader armhf binary from the archive?
[15:39] <sil2100> dbungert: hm, from what I know it might not be enough. I think livecd-rootfs takes the subiquity version from stable/ubuntu-$(release_ver) and release_ver is what we get from distro-info -r, which IIRC doesn't include the point version
[15:40] <sil2100> dbungert: so it would have to go to stable/ubuntu-22.04
[15:46] <cpaelzer> athos: it would be nicer if it would not even try to build it there instead of failing - do you happen to know if that was discussed?
[15:48] <cpaelzer> seems not to allow it to come back if every fixed
[15:48] <cpaelzer> I'll link the debian RM bug to your bug as well
[15:51] <cpaelzer> athos: I agree to your case, but since I haven't done this subcase of removal yet I've sent my command that I'd issue to doko for review
[15:54] <dbungert> sil2100: ah, thanks.  We shouldn't push to stable/ubuntu-22.04 yet for the untested things, as existing 22.04 ISO users would see that snap.  Would you be open to a livecd-rootfs enhancement here?
[16:14] <vorlon> athos: please subscribe ubuntu-archive to removal bugs
[17:52] <bdmurray> I'm looking into / sorting out the downed armhf autopkgtest workers.
[17:58] <jbicha> bdmurray: I see you're busy now. But if you have time, gnome-shell-extension-desktop-icons-ng has aged 7 days in jammy-proposed & is needed for oem partners
[17:59] <bdmurray> jbicha: I've added to my list of things to do after this indcident is resolved
[18:40] <bdmurray> jbicha: Have you done any testing of the gnome-shell-extension-desktop-icons-ng to see if it still works as expected?
[18:52] <jbicha> bdmurray: I verified that the extension seems to work & I verified bug 1978330. I don't have the hardware to complete the test cases for the other 2 bugs personally
[18:54] <bdmurray> jbicha: I saw that the SRU bugs were verified I was more concerned functional testing of it to avoid regressions.
[19:04] <bdmurray> arif-ali: I've replied in bug 1978465 regarding the microrelase update of python-os-brick
[19:22] <Eickmeyer[m]> Quick question: In Kinetic, carla FTBFS. How long do I have to get this fixed before removal? I'm working with upstream to figure out what's going wrong.
[19:32] <bdmurray> sil2100: Reading https://bugs.launchpad.net/cloud-archive/+bug/1972665/comments/25 do all the packages need to be released together or you concerned about only one of them being updated because of the EoL of Impish?


[05:38] <macvr> does anyone know how to *remove* a project from a bug? since there are so many papercuts being reported and reassigned , its almost creating spam
[07:55] <hyperair> macvr: you can only mark a project as invalid.
[07:55] <hyperair> no way to remove it
[08:31] <macvr> hyperair: another easy way i find is re-assign it  , but sometimes I'm too lazy to identify the project ;p
[08:31] <hyperair> macvr: you can only reassign a source packge in a distro, but not an actual project =\
[08:32] <macvr> yup
[08:34] <macvr> hyperair: well the prob is there are so many *1 line feature requests* , after a time its like why bother when the OP doesnt even take the time to complete his own requests!
[08:34] <hyperair> heheh leave it to the bug triagers to feel the pain of stupid bug reportrs =p
[08:34] <hyperair> reporters*
[08:34] <hyperair> i just request for information and mark every damn thing as incomplete
[08:35] <SiDi> macvr: you sleep from times to times ?
[08:35] <macvr> SiDi: nope ;p
[08:35] <hyperair> it's 1pm over there anyways. not bedtime is it?
[08:36] <SiDi> its 9 AM here. But the fact is that macvr is on when i go bed and on when i wake up, and i dont sleep much, hyperair
[08:36] <hyperair> SiDi: i'm sure he sleeps when you're not looking ;)
[08:36] <macvr> SiDi: well , i just leave my laptop running
[08:37] <hyperair> SiDi: i think many people think the same about me.
[08:38] <macvr> SiDi: its been on since the last 3 yrs ;p , rarely switch it off , if it had a mouth it would beg for mercy
[08:38] <hyperair> D=
[08:39] <hyperair> why do you even use a laptop instead of a desktop then?
[08:40] <macvr> hyperair: i find it easy , rather than a desktop , can lie down ;p  too lazy to sit
[08:43] <hyperair> macvr: one of my exclassmates had a cpu and monitor next to his bed, with the keyboard and mouse on the bed. =p
[08:44] <hyperair> granted, his case was because he really didn't have anywhere else to put it but hey it meant he could lie down and use it. =p
[08:44] <macvr> but he cant carry it around , can he ;p
[08:45] <hyperair> hmm good point =p
[08:48] <hyperair> my notebook's kinda grounded as well due to the attached monitor =p
[08:50] <macvr> i make sure not to get used to dual monitors...
[08:50] <hyperair> i only use this set up when i'm home
[08:50] <hyperair> ~3 months or so then i'm off again
[08:50] <macvr> it just becomes weird if its not attached !
[08:50] <hyperair> hehehe
[08:50] <hyperair> well it takes some getting used to but it's fine =\
[08:51] <hyperair> on the other hand, when i'm using a dual monitor setup, i have to make sure not to trigger the compiz ezoom plugin when the cursor is near place where the two monitors join
[08:52] <hyperair> the cursor starts to jump between the two monitors
[08:52] <hyperair> very irritating
[08:52] <hyperair> i contacted the ezoom plugin author about it.. last year i think. no news =\
[08:52] <hyperair> i mean he did say he would work on it, but i haven't heard from him since
[08:55] <macvr> ah ... almost forgot about all the compiz probs!
[11:54]  * MacSlow -> lunch
[15:28] <SiDi> tedg: ping ?
[15:28] <tedg> SiDi: Hey, I'm on a call right now... I can answer in a few minutes.
[15:28] <SiDi> okey
[15:38] <tedg> SiDi: Sorry about that, what's up?
[15:39] <SiDi> tedg: hello. i wanted to ask you if it was possible to split libindicate and indicator-applet in LP so that libindicate can be built without indicator-applet's specific dependencies
[15:39] <tedg> SiDi: Uhm, in theory.  But, I'm not sure why that'd make a difference.  It seems like that only effects Soyuz, right?
[15:40] <SiDi> tedg: its actually because someone (Mark__T) wrote an indicator-applet-xfce
[15:40] <SiDi> and it depends on libindicate 2
[15:41] <SiDi> (and my karmic vm doesnt have enough room anymore to install all indicator-applet's dependencies :$ - but anyway it'd be cool for the xfce people to can easily test the xfce applet if you could split the lib and the gnome applet)
[15:42] <tedg> SiDi: Okay.  I can look at doing that, they kinda grew organically to be in the same repo.  There's no technical reason to have them together.
[15:42] <SiDi> tedg: great :)
[15:42] <tedg> I'll make kenvandine go through the NEW process of having different source packages ;)
[15:42] <SiDi> kenvandine: sorry :P
[15:42]  * tedg owes kenvandine lots of beer next week :)
[15:42] <kenvandine> :)
[15:43] <kenvandine> new source package... that is a ton of work :/
[15:44] <kenvandine> SiDi, i don't see why that matters?
[15:44] <kenvandine> you don't have to install indicator-applet... just libindicate
[15:45] <kenvandine> actually i guess it shouldn't be that much work...  since it was already in main... just being split
[15:45] <kenvandine> can someone file a bug about that and assign it to me?
[15:46] <SiDi> kenvandine: i cant build it :/
[15:46] <SiDi> i need to download all of indicator-applet's deps for building libindicate
[15:47] <kenvandine> in theory you shouldn't need to build it :)
[15:47] <SiDi> i need the trunk one for the xfce applet :)
[15:47] <kenvandine> we just need to get it in main
[15:47] <SiDi> is there a deb for libindicate 0.2 yet ?
[15:50] <tedg> SiDi: I don't think I've put one out there.  But the packaging branch is up-to-date and should build.
[15:51] <tedg> kenvandine: I think it's something we should do anyway as when GNOME 3 comes around the applet part will have to die anyway.
[15:51] <tedg> I'd imagine all the bonobo deps will fall out of main rather quickly.  Or perhaps I'm just being hopeful :)
[15:51] <kenvandine> tedg, yeah... i guess the first step is to split it into a separate branch right?
[15:52] <kenvandine> the sources is what matters for SiDi
[15:52] <tedg> kenvandine: Hmm, yeah.  Do you think they should be separate LP projects?
[15:52] <tedg> It seems like a 1:1 of source packages to LP projects makes things easier.
[15:53] <tedg> But, I don't work on the distro anymore ;)
[15:54] <kenvandine> tedg, nah... i am happy having them in one project
[15:54] <kenvandine> just split it in bzr
[15:54] <kenvandine> and we can create releases for each independantly
[15:55] <tedg> Okay.  I'm not going to do that today.  But it'll be a good activity when I can't sleep on the plane.
[15:55] <tedg> It doesn't take a lot of thought, but takes time :)
[15:55] <kenvandine> :)
[15:55] <kenvandine> cool
[15:55] <kenvandine> tedg, how is the empathy stuff coming?
[15:55] <kenvandine> i plan on doing my part of it on the plane :)
[15:55] <kenvandine> unless i find time before then
[15:56] <tedg> kenvandine: Apparently there is going to be an Empathy/Telepathy hackfest session at Desktop Summit.
[15:56] <kenvandine> yup
[15:56] <tedg> kenvandine: I was thinking about doing it then.
[15:56] <kenvandine> ok
[15:56] <tedg> kenvandine: Then I have a basis for asking questions :)
[15:56] <kenvandine> i was thinking it would be nice to have it before then :)
[15:57] <tedg> kenvandine: I can try, but I need to get some applet stuff done and slides for my talk Monday.  Plus, I'm single-parenting it this week.  I'm not optimistic that I'll get much time on it.
[15:57] <kenvandine> sure
[15:57] <kenvandine> understand
[15:57] <kenvandine> i am still needing to prepare for my talk on tuesday :)
[15:58] <tedg> I don't even have a clear vision for my slide template yet... usually I have that by now. :)
[15:58] <tedg> The new background art wasn't as inspiring as previous ones :(
[16:00] <kenvandine> tedg, background art... did i miss something?
[16:01] <tedg> kenvandine: http://gould.cx/ted/presentations/scale7x/
[16:01] <kenvandine> oh... background art you created :)
[16:02] <tedg> kenvandine: Well, that was basically the Hardy background remixed.
[16:02] <tedg> It was all kwwii's doing.
[16:02] <kenvandine> :)
[16:03] <artir> get the jaunty background and do the same :)
[16:03]  * kenvandine is using gnome love artwork :)
[16:03] <kenvandine> feels weird that my talk will demo something not based on ubuntu... and.. it feels weird that that feels weird :)
[16:03] <tedg> artir: Yeah, the Jaunty background is boring.
[16:04] <tedg> kenvandine: Heh.
[16:04] <artir> who did it?
[16:04] <tedg> artir: I believe that mt did.
[16:04] <tedg> Though I'm not sure.
[16:04] <kenvandine> i like it... it is good for a wallpaper
[16:05] <artir> and for cd covers too
[16:05] <kenvandine> yup
[16:05]  * tedg thinks you guys are bland ;)
[16:06] <kenvandine> :)
[16:07] <artir> i haven't changed the wallpaper since i installed jaunty, it's simplicity it's appealing
[16:07] <artir> plus i don't usually see my desktop clean :P
[17:54] <macvr> djsiegel: https://bugs.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/393158
[17:55] <macvr> djsiegel: ^something that can be fixed this cycle :)
[17:58] <djsiegel> macvr: awesome, but I gtg now
[17:58] <macvr> later...
[17:58] <lamalex> go to his new job as Apple CEO he means
[17:59] <macvr> CEO , haha!
[17:59] <macvr> somebody will probably have to forcibly throw out Jobs
[19:18] <SiDi> MacSlow: do you use the gconf font size / dpi for notify-osd in trunk ?
[19:19] <MacSlow> yes
[19:23] <SiDi> MacSlow: wont work with xfce ^.^
[19:23] <SiDi> i was wondering why the font was _so_ little with trunk... my gnome font used to be more little than the xfce one
[19:23] <MacSlow> *shrugg*
[19:24] <SiDi> MacSlow: i'm gonna report this cause we're likely to use notify-osd in xubuntu now (i think its already the case in karmic)
[19:24] <SiDi> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/notify-osd/+bug/339026 actually its already here
[19:24] <MacSlow> correct
[19:25] <MacSlow> actually I don't have time to look at bugs atm
[19:25] <SiDi> no problem


[00:53] <Sarvatt> whoops RAOF your edgers expired, renewed ya :)
[00:55] <RAOF> Sarvatt: Thanks.  I was going to ping you about that :)
[01:13] <ripps> Wooo!!! Internet is back.
[13:27] <tseliot> RAOF, Sarvatt: I'm almost done packaging the new nvidia driver. Did you put the libraries back where they used to be in Mesa?
[13:32] <bjsnider> tseliot, did you integrate the new nvidia_supported script?
[13:32] <tseliot> bjsnider: yep
[13:33] <bjsnider> can you post the relevant section of the rules file somewhere?
[13:34] <tseliot> bjsnider: I'll commit my changes soon in this branch: http://github.com/tseliot/nvidia-graphics-drivers
[13:34] <bjsnider> k
[13:57] <tseliot> bjsnider: ok, pushed (note: this is not final)
[14:02] <bjsnider> tseliot, where is the code that creates the /dev/nvidiactrl file?
[14:02] <tseliot> bjsnider: ???
[14:03] <tseliot> bjsnider: you will only find packaging scripts there
[14:06] <bjsnider> well, i was looking for the correct settings for that file, i assume it is owned by root:video and that the user must be part of the video group
[14:07] <tseliot> I wouldn't know
[14:08] <bjsnider> i have to get hold of someone who has the blob installed right now
[14:08] <bjsnider> unfortunately it got screwed up thanks to ext4 when i lost power
[14:09] <bjsnider> i always lose data with ext4 if the system shuts down unexpectedly
[14:21] <tseliot> :-/
[14:55] <ion> tseliot: Re: the commit message, it’s in fact the README that is missing IDs (and has been for all releases of the driver). The README is only used by the new script to find the correct symbol from the blob. The resulting list is based on the blob, not the README.
[14:57] <ion> tseliot: The script traverses through the .rodata symbols until it finds one that correlates to the README list closely enough. Then that list is converted to the modaliases format.
[14:59] <ion> tseliot: The list from various versions of the blob has consistently had zero ID deletions (compared to README) and almost 100 % additions compared to the number of IDs in the README.
[15:00] <ion> tseliot: So, currently the thresholds for picking the symbol are: deletions = 0, additions ≤ 1.5·n where n is the number of IDs in README.
[15:00] <tseliot> ion: ah, it seemed weird to me that they removed only some ids. I'll read your changes again
[15:01] <ion> tseliot: Sarvatt said the IDs README is missing are things like AGP-PCIe bridge chips etc.
[15:02] <tseliot> ion: aah, that's where I heard that something was removed. I must have mixed things up
[15:04]  * tseliot changes the changelog
[15:06] <ion> tseliot: For previous releases of the driver, the blob had two consecutive symbols duplicating the ID list, and that was the heuristic used to find the right symbol. They removed the duplicate and the script stopped working. So now the new heuristic for finding the right symbol is the comparison to the list from README.
[15:13] <ion> tseliot: If you haven’t already done it, i could as well do the changelog change.
[15:15] <tseliot> ion: I did this but I haven't pushed it yet: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/455000/
[15:15] <tseliot> ion: if you want to add a detailed explanation to the changelog, you're welcome to do so
[15:16] <tseliot> BTW why 1.5·n?
[15:20] <ion> It’s pretty much an arbitrary number for sanity checking. The number of additions has correlated with the number of total IDs in README, and since it has consistently been *almost* 1.0·n, i added a safety buffer of about 50 % in case the number of additions exceeds the number of IDs in README in a future release.
[15:20] <tseliot> ok, I suspected that but I wanted to be sure
[15:21] <tseliot> ion: where's your branch on git-hub?
[15:24] <ion> tseliot: Just pushed to http://github.com/ion1/nvidia-graphics-drivers / git://github.com/ion1/nvidia-graphics-drivers.git
[15:26] <tseliot> ion: ok, I'll merge from it
[15:33] <tseliot> merged and pushed. Thanks
[15:47] <tseliot> the driver works well now
[15:51] <tseliot> I guess nvidia-173 and nvidia-96 are not installable in maverick, are they?
[15:51] <tseliot> bjsnider: ^
[15:54] <ion> Have you considered having just a single source package for all versions of the nvidia driver, btw? Wouldn’t that reduce duplication? I made sure the new nvidia_supported script works for all versions, for instance. It could just as well exist in a single source package.
[15:55] <bjsnider> ion, i added y our script to the older distros and it generated the expected modaliases file
[15:56] <tseliot> ion: that would make the source package too big with all the installers
[15:58] <tseliot> also bug tracking would be harder
[15:58] <ion> Good point


[03:20] <Noskcaj> balloons, ping
[03:20] <balloons> Noskcaj, pong
[03:21] <Noskcaj> can you merge elfy's manual test, it would help speed things up since david is having issues
[03:22] <Noskcaj> or do you want me to merge it?
[03:23] <Noskcaj> also, can you review https://code.launchpad.net/~noskcaj/ubuntu-manual-tests/parole/+merge/172212
[03:33] <balloons> it's bedtime for me here, but I can try tomorrow.. If your able to merge, or howard that would be great
[03:33] <balloons> it's really busy for me atm :-(
[04:46] <pitti> Good morning
[07:07] <jibel> good morning
[08:06] <elfy> balloons: not sure what's going on but manual tests 1565/1566/1568/1571 have all disappeared
[08:13] <elfy> balloons: no - it's more than that - in fact it seems to be all the ones knome and I added to the xfce testsuite - all missing now if you bzr branch lp:ubuntu-manual-tests
[08:15] <smartboyhw> elfy, are u sure?
[08:15]  * smartboyhw can find it
[08:16] <smartboyhw> elfy, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-testcase/ubuntu-manual-tests/trunk/revision/143
[08:16] <elfy> I just pulled the branch here - they are all missing
[08:16] <smartboyhw> elfy, really? Not in testcases/packages/Xfce ?
[08:16] <smartboyhw> My branch's new
[08:17] <smartboyhw> And I can find these there
[08:17] <elfy> aaah - yea - didn't see that
[08:17] <smartboyhw> :)
[08:19] <elfy> I really do wish that there was some sort of wiki for all this stuff
[08:21] <DanChapman> Good Morning :-)
[08:21] <smartboyhw> elfy, make one yourself:)
[08:21] <elfy> hi DanChapman
[08:21] <smartboyhw> Hello DanChapman, why is yesterday's session abruptly cancelled?
[08:21] <smartboyhw> I mean, "emergency" isn't a proper explanation:P
[08:22] <elfy> smartboyhw: that'll be really good wouldn't it - let's make a wiki about things that are missing from documentation - oh wait - how would I know it's missing ;)
[08:22] <smartboyhw> elfy, find it yourself?
[08:22] <elfy> sigh
[08:23] <smartboyhw> People who requested a feature is recommended to add the feature themselves:P
[08:23] <DanChapman> smartboyhw, Hey, my eldest boy fell down the stairs and broke his arm :-S so had to go hospital. We keep telling him not to play with toys on the stairs. But 6 year olds tend not to listen.......
[08:23] <smartboyhw> DanChapman, :S
[08:23] <elfy> DanChapman: oh dear :(
[08:23] <elfy> DanChapman: don't expect it to change as they get older ... it doesn't
[08:23] <smartboyhw> DanChapman, well at least your eldest son now learnt a lesson...
[08:24] <smartboyhw> DanChapman, for child caring, ask elfy:P
[08:24] <elfy> smartboyhw: quite simply something as important as QA quite frankly should have documentation written by Canonical
[08:25] <DanChapman> elfy, :-S thats kinda worrying .... :-D
[08:25] <elfy> DanChapman: lol - don't worry - it'll just happen :)
[08:28] <elfy> DanChapman: as long as he's ok - got a day of school and plenty of TLC - he'll be fine :)
[08:29] <elfy> my son snapped his wrist in about 5 places skateboarding on a kerb ... fell in the road - lucky
[08:30] <DanChapman> elfy, he trying to get as much sympathy as he can get.... has asked if he can have a day of watching power rangers... got to be one of the worst childrens programmes in history.
[08:31] <elfy> :)
[08:32] <smartboyhw> elfy, what's TLC?
[08:32] <smartboyhw> I think we call it ECA here..
[08:33] <smartboyhw> My worst disease was H3N2 when I was 10...
[08:42] <DanChapman> brb
[08:59] <rbasak> Is there a adt-run-lxc?
[08:59] <rbasak> Sorry I mean an adt-virt-lxc
[08:59] <rbasak> I can't find any sign of one
[10:40] <slickymaster> elfy: sorry for boring you elfy, but I would like to ask something related to the manual testcases
[10:41] <smartboyhw> !ask | slickymaster
[10:41] <ubot5`> slickymaster: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
[10:41] <smartboyhw> :)
[10:42] <slickymaster> all right, my question is how do I go about to have 1 branch per file in bzr?
[10:44] <elfy> slickymaster:
[10:44] <elfy> whoops
[10:45] <DanChapman> slickymaster, for each new test you do branch a copy of the 'master' branch. Then when you push create a branch with the name of your test or however elfy likes naming branches :-P
[10:45] <elfy> what I do is create a folder - say for instance gnumeric - then I grab the branch - then inside there I create the new file
[10:45] <elfy> slickymaster: the path to my gnumeric one is home/hob/manualtests/gnumeric/ubuntu-manual-tests/testcases/packages/gnumeric_adv
[10:46] <elfy> /home/hob/manualtests/greeter/ubuntu-manual-tests/testcases/packages/greeter_Xubuntu
[10:46] <smartboyhw> slickymaster, seriously, wait, you mean 1 BZR branch for 1 single file? Who does that?
[10:46] <slickymaster> Is it that simple?! I'm really stupid
[10:46]  * elfy does smartboyhw
[10:47] <smartboyhw> elfy, ..................
[10:47] <elfy> slickymaster: at the end of the day it doesn't matter how as long as the end result is you only pushing the one you want to push
[10:47] <elfy> smartboyhw: what does ......................... mean exactly?
[10:47] <DanChapman> smartboyhw, each manual test is only one file anyway
[10:47] <smartboyhw> elfy, "so amazed that I can't speak anything:
[10:48] <smartboyhw> DanChapman, now, sure, but one bzr branch for one file?
[10:48] <elfy> oh well - I could go on at what I get amazed at smartboyhw
[10:48] <smartboyhw> elfy, yeah sure, please spam the channel:P
[10:48] <elfy> slickymaster: at the end of the day - do it how you find it best for you
[10:49] <slickymaster> well I'm facing a situation where my branches diverged, so probably all I have to do is to have as many branches/folders as the number of tests I'm working on. Is that right?
[10:49] <elfy> I'm not sure tbh - I don't get them doing that :)
[10:50] <smartboyhw> slickymaster, well, you may just branch a new lp:ubuntu-manual-tests, then copy the file to a local location and work on it, and replace it back
[10:50] <smartboyhw> You don't necessarily have to make many branches
[10:50] <slickymaster> smartboyhw: that's what I was doing and what led me into where I am
[10:51] <smartboyhw> slickymaster, why you can't put all the files you ARE working into a single directory?
[10:52] <slickymaster> smartboyhw: I can do that, problem is in the last few days, every time I push a testcase to my branch it gets diverged
[10:53] <smartboyhw> slickymaster, what you should do is:
[10:53] <smartboyhw> 1. branch the code from LP
[10:53] <smartboyhw> 2. Copy the files you want to work on to a new directory
[10:53] <smartboyhw> 3. If you want to put it back, make sure you bzr pull first
[10:53] <smartboyhw> 4. Check if no changes was done upstream in LP
[10:54] <smartboyhw> 5. Copy the file back
[10:54] <smartboyhw> 6. bzr commit -m "*"
[10:54] <smartboyhw> 7. push
[10:55] <slickymaster> I think I'll try elfy's approach
[10:56] <slickymaster> smartboyhw: thanks for those tips, If anything goes wrong with elf's approach, I'll do it like you say
[10:56] <DanChapman> The way i see it is one branch solves one problem/bug, wether its 100 files or 1 file that solves that problem. THis way the intent of the branch is clear and doesn't need much explanation
[10:57] <elfy> DanChapman: that certainly works for me
[10:59] <slickymaster> elfy: according to this Jackson post - https://code.launchpad.net/~slickymaster/ubuntu-manual-tests/xfce4panel/+merge/172445/comments/385872 - I have to wait for you to merge your changes to the main branch
[10:59] <slickymaster> do you think that it could be related?
[11:00] <elfy> possibly - if your's is linked to anything else that's going on - but I'm new to bzr as well
[11:01] <slickymaster> elfy: I'll mail him asking it
[11:01] <elfy> but that's something I've not come across - I did have an issue once - but it was different
[11:02] <elfy> slickymaster: I'd ask balloons when he's about
[11:02] <elfy> which is usually in about 4 or 5 hours in here
[11:03] <slickymaster> elfy: I'll try to show up here. I'm assuming you're referring to 4 to 5 hours from now, right?
[11:03] <elfy> yea
[11:04] <slickymaster> OK. Thank you all, guys, for the help
[11:05] <elfy> welcome :)
[11:05] <slickymaster> see you then
[11:05] <elfy> cya
[14:09] <DanChapman> balloons hey :-) sorry for short notice last night
[14:13] <balloons> DanChapman, no worries mate. Is everyone a-ok today?
[14:13] <balloons> I mean as a-ok as possible considering everything
[14:14] <smartboyhw> DanChapman, when do you suppose can run the session back?
[14:14] <smartboyhw> Hey balloons
[14:17] <DanChapman> balloons, yeah lil man is ok. He is having a power ranger marathon today while drawing animals on his cast :-D yeah all is as good as can be.
[14:22] <elfy> good morning balloons
[14:22] <balloons> DanChapman, I'm glad to hear. Kids usually bounce, but sometimes even they are human :-)
[14:23] <balloons> hello elfy I know slickymaster and you and jackson are working on the xfce stuff
[14:23] <balloons> I hope it's been sorted?
[14:24] <elfy> not a clue - I think there's some merges holding something else up - not really had time to look at it
[14:24] <elfy> I'm not sure why something I put up for review/merge would hold anything else up really
[14:24] <slickymaster> hi balloons, I think my branch is completly messed up
[14:25] <balloons> slickymaster, :*-(
[14:26] <slickymaster> balloons: according to Jackson I have to wait for elfy to merge his changes to the main branch, then re-do my version of the settings test. that will remove the issue of conflicts
[14:27] <slickymaster> but what is strange is that everything happens when I was pushing my xfce panel testcase
[14:27] <balloons> hmm.. We're still blaming jackson for this right? :-p If elfy hasn't changed your test we shouldn't have to wait on his merges
[14:27] <balloons> but anyways, which branch did you redo the changes in?
[14:27] <elfy> not really sure why he said that - I might have rights but I'm not likely to merge my own
[14:27] <balloons> let's just get you merged
[14:27] <balloons> so you don't have to keep updating your branch :-)
[14:27] <slickymaster> balloons: see this: https://code.launchpad.net/~slickymaster/ubuntu-manual-tests/xfce4panel/+merge/172445/comments/385872
[14:28] <smartboyhw> Guys, don't blame Noskcaj
[14:28] <slickymaster> smartboyhw: it's just to be on the safe side :)
[14:28] <balloons> smartboyhw, I'm just teasing him a little.. he's been great
[14:29] <slickymaster> yes, he has. he has helped me a lot
[14:32] <slickymaster> so, what do you think my next step should be, balloons?
[14:32] <elfy> balloons: at a basic level here - if there is a testcase that's been reviewed and is good to go - and I've looked and it looks good to me too - does just clicking the "Merge into:lp:ubuntu-manual-tests" do the job completely?
[14:33] <smartboyhw> elfy, you use bzr merge...
[14:33] <balloons> ^^
[14:34] <balloons> slickymaster, I'm pulling your branch a moment
[14:34] <smartboyhw> In a fresh lp:ubuntu-manual-tests, do bzr merge <the branch you need to merge in>
[14:34] <smartboyhw> bzr commit -m "<message"
[14:34] <slickymaster> balloons, thanks for taking the time
[14:34] <smartboyhw> bzr push :parent
[14:34] <elfy> sorry - that means nothing to me at all - not really in the right frame of mind to decipher cryptic comments
[14:34] <balloons> hmm looks like Jackson has the proper comments :-)
[14:35]  * smartboyhw does not understand why Noskcaj is called by first name rather than IRC nickname in here.
[14:35] <balloons> the only file with an issue is 1562_xfce4panel tests
[14:35] <balloons> solve the conflict and we can merge it
[14:35] <slickymaster> balloons, that's the one
[14:36] <slickymaster> balloons, how can I solve the conflict?
[14:36] <balloons> the 001 or 01 testcase has different versions
[14:36] <balloons> it looks like yours is just an expansion or whatever.. regardless we can just go with your version
[14:39] <slickymaster> balloons, yes. either one or the other. They're basically the same file. The only difference lies in the formation. One complies with the proper format and the other doesn't
[14:41] <balloons> shoot
[14:42] <slickymaster> balloons ?!
[14:42] <balloons> my local repo is messed up
[14:43] <balloons> i have to fix that first
[14:43] <slickymaster> balloons, could it be a curse, hoovering over us? ;)
[14:44] <balloons> lol, I think not
[14:50] <balloons> ok sorted me
[14:51] <balloons> now your branch
[14:52] <slickymaster> ballons, I'm keeping my fingers crossed
[14:53] <balloons> slickymaster, ok so your version has 5 tests, while the version in the archive has 21
[14:54] <balloons> and they don't directly matchup
[14:54] <slickymaster> balloons, I'm a bit like elfy, now. you're being a little cryptic to me
[14:54] <balloons> so with your help, let's just go through them
[14:54] <slickymaster> balloons, ok
[14:54] <balloons> consider this as the problem
[14:55] <balloons> you wrote test 1, elfy wrote test 2.. You both wrote a version of test 3, and elfy wrote 10 additonal tests
[14:55] <balloons> you have to merge that all together into something that makes sense :-) Since you both wrote a version of test 3 that's where we have to decipher which one to take, or if we need to combine them
[14:55] <slickymaster> balloons, we're just speaking about xfce4 panel tests, right?
[14:55] <balloons> yes
[14:56] <slickymaster> and how do we do that?
[14:56] <balloons> that's an example of what's gone on with the file. there's several versions
[14:56] <balloons> we do that manually by looking at the 2 and comparing them
[14:56] <balloons> I use a "diff" tool called meld
[14:56] <balloons> it colors the text that is different and displays them side by side
[14:57] <elfy> I've not done a panel test ?
[14:57] <elfy> or is this all rhetorical ?
[14:58] <slickymaster> elfy, that's what I always thought
[14:58] <elfy> ok - I'll go back to nursing a headache
[14:58] <balloons> rhetorical elfy
[14:59] <slickymaster> as elfy, I was also under the impression that I was the only one working on the panel tests
[14:59] <balloons> SOMEONE changed something.. insert whatever name you wish.. it was just to help understand what's happened
[15:00] <smartboyhw> balloons, private message?
[15:02] <slickymaster> balloons, can't you just remove all those versions, clean my branch, and after that I would just resubmit it?
[15:04] <balloons> slickymaster, if you grab trunk and redit the file from scratch that fixes it
[15:05] <balloons> that's essentially what i'm trying to do by looking through the diff
[15:07] <balloons> ok slickymaster so this is partially looking like one version is a consolidation of the other
[15:07] <slickymaster> balloons, yes, I think you are correct
[15:15] <balloons> slickymaster, I think we have something
[15:15] <balloons> I want you to look at the files ok
[15:15] <balloons> ?
[15:16] <balloons> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~nskaggs/ubuntu-manual-tests/davidmerge/view/head:/testcases/packages/xfce4panel%20tests
[15:16] <balloons> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~nskaggs/ubuntu-manual-tests/davidmerge/view/head:/testcases/packages/xfce4settings%20tests
[15:17] <balloons> if those both look correct to you, I will merge
[15:17] <elfy> the settings one is part of the same thing as one I've done
[15:19] <elfy> balloons: if you merge that one let me know - then I will stop mine and then edit slickymaster's when it's merged to include my bits as well
[15:20] <balloons> slickymaster, can you have a look?
[15:20] <balloons> no rush, just wanted to make sure you saw the links :-)
[15:22] <slickymaster> balloons, sorry for the delay, I was fixing a problem with a server over here at work
[15:23] <balloons> slickymaster, it's a morning of problems eh? :-)
[15:23] <slickymaster> yes they're correct. Just one thing your first link is the finished panel test, and you can merge that one
[15:23] <slickymaster> balloons, yes, it's been a hell of a day ;)
[15:24] <balloons> slickymaster, ok so both links are good and can merge? if so, I'm pushing now
[15:24] <slickymaster> continuing, the second link it's from my xfce settings, which I haven't finished yet
[15:25] <elfy> slickymaster: that second one is the same as one I was working on
[15:25] <balloons> slickymaster, ohh you don't want to merge xfce4settings tests? it's in your branch, but I can remove merging it
[15:26] <slickymaster> balloons, I'm still working on that one, If you merge it, will I be able to continue working on it, without any problems
[15:26] <elfy> slickymaster: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~elfy/ubuntu-manual-tests/XFCESettings/view/head:/testcases/packages/XFCESettings
[15:27] <balloons> ok, so I'll merge both.. elfy that ok with you also/
[15:27] <slickymaster> elfy; so, after all it seems we're working on the same test, but I thought we have established that they were different bugs
[15:28] <elfy> I think I marked myself as working on the wrong thing
[15:28] <elfy> balloons: do the merge
[15:28] <slickymaster> elfy, this is the one i assigned to me: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1183493
[15:28] <ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1183493 in Ubuntu Manual Tests "Test Needed: Xfce Settings Manager" [Undecided,In progress]
[15:29] <elfy> slickymaster: wait until I have pulled it and then pushed my stuff to the test and balloons can then merge that
[15:29] <elfy> then you'll have both what you had done and what I've done
[15:29] <elfy> I think the logic is right there - but I've been suffering all day with a wicked headache
[15:30] <slickymaster> elfy: it's really just one of those days
[15:31] <balloons> wa-hoo
[15:31] <balloons> pushing now
[15:31] <elfy> balloons: so - I'll pull that later - add my changes and push it back for review
[15:32] <balloons> perfect
[15:32] <elfy> slickymaster: once I've done that you can get the whole thing back with all changes we've both done
[15:33] <slickymaster> so, can I consider the panel tests as done with and don't think about it again and continue with this one https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1183493?
[15:33] <ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1183493 in Ubuntu Manual Tests "Test Needed: Xfce Settings Manager" [Undecided,In progress]
[15:33] <smartboyhw> Well, this needs to get to the Packages QA Tracker before I would consider it "Fix Released". It can be called "Fix Committed" though
[15:33] <elfy> slickymaster: I'll PM you on the forum if you like once I have had my changes to it merged - until then leave that one alone
[15:34] <slickymaster> elfy, ok, I'll do as you say
[15:34] <balloons> done and merged
[15:34] <balloons> thanks guys!
[15:34] <elfy> k
[15:35] <smartboyhw> balloons, can we now get on with the new idea discussion?:P
[15:35] <balloons> smartboyhw, the mind is much freer now :-)
[15:35] <balloons> go for it
[15:35] <balloons> present the idea
[15:35] <slickymaster> balloons, sorry, just one last question. do I still have to push the panel test or is the all thing finished?
[15:36] <slickymaster> already saw that it's solved
[15:36] <balloons> do a bzr pull and you'll see the new stuff
[15:36] <balloons> 1573_xfce4panel tests
[15:36] <slickymaster> sorry guys, for being a pain in the and thanks a lot for all your help
[15:36] <balloons> 1574_xfce4settings tests
[15:37] <slickymaster> ballons, I saw that, thanks
[15:37] <elfy> balloons: so why do some tests say Test-case name: xfce4 panel/xfce4-settings_manager-002 etc and other ones don't
[15:38] <elfy> this confuses me - I guess it depends which one 'they' took as a model when they started
[15:38] <elfy> slickymaster's do and mine don't :)
[15:39] <slickymaster> elfy: yes, I think it's a matter of the model taken
[15:39] <balloons> elfy, I would drop the internal naming actually
[15:39] <balloons> jackson and I were chatting about that at one point
[15:40] <balloons> you can leave them in, but it's no longer needed, so I think it's probably saner to stop it
[15:40] <elfy> ok - so like I do then
[15:40]  * balloons JUST figured out noskcaj's handle
[15:40] <elfy> LOL
[15:40] <balloons> wow.. jackson backwards..
[15:41] <slickymaster> LOL
[15:41] <elfy> right - so I'll do this settings one shortly
[15:41] <elfy> balloons: of course - and elfy is forestpiskie or hobgoblin upside down :p
[15:42] <slickymaster> ok, so I'll change my tests model and leave the internal naming
[15:42] <balloons> smartboyhw is busy laughing at me..
[15:42] <smartboyhw> balloons, why?
[15:42]  * smartboyhw is busy typing up his suggestion to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[15:42] <balloons> noskcaj = jackson backwards.. I JUST figured that out
[15:42] <smartboyhw> balloons, elfy slickymaster phillw sent
[15:43] <elfy> balloons: one serious question - I now am going to fiddle with the settings one you've just merged - I can do whatever I want to it ?
[15:43] <smartboyhw> DanChapman, ^
[15:43] <elfy> one less serious comment - you just made it so I don't have to figure noskcaj's nick out - thanks :)
[15:43] <smartboyhw> balloons, oh, I didn't expect that:O
[15:44] <smartboyhw> Stupid Noskcaj, I shall beat him tmr.
[15:44] <smartboyhw> Probably not, maybe Friday, too damn busy tmr
[15:44] <smartboyhw> Don't expect me on internet before 12:00 UTC tmr
[15:44] <smartboyhw> :P
[15:44] <balloons> smartboyhw, did you not realize it either?
[15:44] <balloons> lolololol
[15:44] <balloons> elfy, you can do whatever you want
[15:44] <smartboyhw> balloons, no. lololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololo
[15:44] <elfy> right
[15:45] <balloons> slickymaster's stuff is in..
[15:45] <smartboyhw> x = (-b +/- root((b^2)-4ac))/2a
[15:46] <elfy> yep got that - working on it already
[15:46] <smartboyhw> That's basically my feeling of Noskcaj's cleverness:P
[15:46] <balloons> smartboyhw, so simple, so clever.. and we never noticed
[15:46] <slickymaster> elfy: I'll wait for your Pm on the forum, before continue to work on the settings test
[15:46] <smartboyhw> balloons, yeah. We idiots:P
[15:46] <smartboyhw> Anyways, guys, do reply to my suggestion on the ml!
[15:46] <balloons> smartboyhw, nice email.. +1 from me as mentioned
[15:47] <balloons> I'll see what others think
[15:47] <elfy> slickymaster: ok - depending on how long it takes to merge it tbh - I'll be done in 30 minutes
[15:48] <slickymaster> elfy: take your time, i'll probably just will manage to work on it later on. I'll have a work appointment in a few minutes
[15:49] <elfy> well I want to get my bit done now :)
[15:49] <slickymaster> guys, once again thanks for all the help
[15:49] <slickymaster> see ya
[15:49] <balloons> see you slickymaster !
[15:49] <elfy> cya slickymaster
[15:53] <balloons> DanChapman, so the ubuntu-manual-tests is sorted now.. how's the ubuntu-autopilot-tests side?
[15:54] <balloons> you missed the fun of merging David's changes.. ugh, a diff mess but we did it
[15:55] <DanChapman> balloons, evince is fixed. Now grabs a sample pdf from its source dir. For some wierd reason its fixed the screenshot probs aswell. Wild!
[15:58] <DanChapman> smartboyhw, just seen your message to the mail list. WOuld be happy to stand in as a testcase pilot but not on Admin team. balloons, how does one go about getting on the team?
[16:00] <DanChapman> Wooooah!! FIrst time opening a Qt app with vis. Gtk is proper lacking on info compared to this!!
[16:01] <balloons> DanChapman, I can fix you up there easily enough :-)
[16:02] <smartboyhw> DanChapman, well you should
[16:02] <smartboyhw> balloons, add DanChapman to the team, he has done enough autopilot tests;P
[16:02] <DanChapman> balloons, cool. :-)
[16:02] <balloons> DanChapman is on the team now :-)
[16:03] <smartboyhw> balloons, thx!
[16:03] <DanChapman> balloons, awesome cheers :-)
[16:03] <smartboyhw> DanChapman, now heh heh
[16:03] <smartboyhw> :P
[16:03] <balloons> DanChapman, yea, isn't QT SO much nicer? with qml you don't even need to use vis to get what your after. I read the qml files more than anything :-)
[16:03] <balloons> DanChapman, ok so I should push the new manual stuff to the prod branch right?
[16:04] <DanChapman> manual or autopilot?
[16:05] <balloons> oh.. lol, sorry yes autopilot
[16:05] <DanChapman> balloons, yeah evince branch needs pushing to prod.
[16:06] <DanChapman> Shall i remove ubiquity as it now over at lp:ubiquity?
[16:06] <smartboyhw> balloons, plz help to get the idea circulated to Letozaf_ and Noskcaj and phillw and SergioMeneses and njin and elfy and every other testcase admin:P
[16:06] <elfy> balloons: ok - so I added in the bits I'd done this morning, ready to review etc - should be ok, checked it with the script thing here https://code.launchpad.net/~elfy/ubuntu-manual-tests/1574_xfce4settings/+merge/172850
[16:06] <elfy> I'll leave it now - once I see in m/list it's done I'll let slickymaster know he can carry on with it
[16:07] <elfy> thanks for your help :)
[16:07] <balloons> DanChapman, yes I suppose removing ubiquity makes sense. I wonder what the best way to keep track of things that aren't in the branch.. aka ubiquity and core apps
[16:07] <balloons> that's something we'll have to think about
[16:14] <DanChapman> balloons, ok I will remove it. Yeah how would you keep track of the core apps etc?
[16:15] <balloons> well launchpad doesn't have a good way I know of of doing it
[16:15] <balloons> but it's something to keep in mind going forward
[16:15] <balloons> I'm not losing sleep on it yet, but it's on my mind :-)
[16:15] <DanChapman> :-)
[16:19] <DanChapman> I must say i'm mighty impressed with xMIR been running it for 2 days with not an issue :-)
[16:20] <smartboyhw> DanChapman, no bugs?
[16:20] <smartboyhw> ;O
[16:21] <DanChapman> Nothing so far smartboyhw, the only prob i had was with vmware package on start up, but thats because i borked vmware. Apart from that nothing.
[16:23]  * smartboyhw tries
[16:24] <DanChapman> :-)
[16:24] <balloons> there's definitely some holes in xMir, but your right DanChapman :-)
[16:48] <balloons> hello drsaurabhsikka
[16:54] <drsaurabhsikka> hello balloons
[16:54] <drsaurabhsikka> i had a question, on a side note...\
[16:55] <balloons> sure thing
[16:55] <drsaurabhsikka> wasn't there an Ubuntu Certification course of some kind, some years back? what happened to it
[16:55] <drsaurabhsikka> met some Red Hat chap today, and that got me thinking
[16:57] <balloons> drsaurabhsikka, I believe some third party may have offered it.. I can't remember myself
[16:58] <balloons> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_Certified_Professional
[16:58] <balloons> that's more than I could have answered :-)
[17:00] <drsaurabhsikka> i see , thanks
[17:00] <juggle> hi
[17:01] <drsaurabhsikka> are we having the tutorial sometime soon?
[17:04] <balloons> drsaurabhsikka, 1800 UTC, so 1 hour.. That said, your more than welcome to ask me questions now, I've just got to grab some food while we do it :-)
[17:05] <drsaurabhsikka> no rush, take your time, i'm just installing saucy meanwhile. just wanted to be on time
[17:06] <balloons> ahh.. well whenever your ready, go ahead and ping.. I'm happy to help
[17:25] <DanChapman> balloons, i merged evince test back into production branch and set my branch to merged do i just leave it at that? or do i manually remove the branch?
[17:26] <balloons> manually remove which branch? If it's in prod, we're good :-)
[17:26] <balloons> hi juggle :-)
[17:27] <DanChapman> this branch https://code.launchpad.net/~dpniel/ubuntu-autopilot-tests/evince
[17:27] <juggle> thank you balloons , how are ypu
[17:28] <balloons> ahh DanChapman lp updates the status on old branches once merged so you don't see them
[17:28] <balloons> if you really wish you can delete them, but I let them archive out
[17:29] <DanChapman> cool, will leave lp to do its thing then
[17:29] <balloons> so https://code.launchpad.net/~ should only show your active stuff
[17:30] <DanChapman> balloons, i'll give it a little while its still saying active
[17:31] <DanChapman> balloons ahh i se what ive done. I proposed the merge to go into dev branch but merged it into prod branch. Doh!
[17:34] <balloons> :-)
[17:57] <ade_> hi
[18:00] <balloons> it's time ;-)
[18:01] <balloons> drsaurabhsikka, I hope your still about.. Welcome to anyone joining us for the automated testing workshop
[18:02] <drsaurabhsikka> i'm here
[18:02] <drsaurabhsikka> what next
[18:03] <balloons> so what I'd like to do is answer any questions folks have about writing autopilot tests, and go about helping you get started
[18:03] <balloons> we can do that via IRC, or if people are willing, over a g+ hangout
[18:04] <balloons> I know not everyone wants to be on camera, so we'll stick with IRC for the moment. First I'll give a little introduction on what autopilot is, and what we're doing.
[18:04] <balloons> Autopilot itself is a functional testing tool allowing us to interact with an application the same way a user would
[18:05] <balloons> it can click, swipe, touch, and type in an application by simulating a user
[18:05] <balloons> this allows us to test at a functional level to ensure the apps in question work well
[18:06] <balloons> So, we want to bring this tool to the core apps project. The core apps are written by community developers and represent the core applications for the ubuntu touch platform.
[18:06] <balloons> We're talking about things like calculator, calendar, file manager, terminal, etc. Some games too, :-)
[18:07] <balloons> So, in order to help contribute tests there are a couple things you'll need
[18:07] <balloons> the first is an installation of ubuntu saucy. It can be in a VM or installed on physical hardware
[18:07] <balloons> the second is an understanding of how autopilot works, and that's what I'm here to help with :-0
[18:08] <balloons> For anyone who hasn't yet gone through the tutorial on developer.ubuntu.com, http://developer.ubuntu.com/resources/cookbook/mobile/how-to-write-autopilot-tests/, please do so now
[18:08] <balloons> inside is an example application you can branch and run, then run the autopilot tests for
[18:09] <balloons> For those who have gone through the tutorial, let's talk about what to do next
[18:10] <balloons> If you visit this wiki page on the core apps, you'll find a handy listing of the needed testcases for each of the applications
[18:10] <balloons> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/CoreApps/Testing
[18:10] <balloons> In addition, there's a lovely guide to help you out. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/CoreApps/Testing/ContributeAutopilotTestcase
[18:10] <balloons> I won't repeat everything here, but in a nutshell here's how to get started
[18:12] <balloons> first pick an application.. Choose something you like that interests you. If your concerned, I can recommend something that might be easier to start with. An application with pre-existing tests for instance is easier for you to get started since you won't have to create the folder structure and there's already some work done for you to build upon
[18:12] <balloons> apps like clock, calendar, rss reader, weather, file manager all meet this criteria today
[18:12] <balloons> second, get the source code and look at and run any existing tests
[18:13] <balloons> you can do this via bzr; the tutorial has links for each core app, as does the wiki. See the header and click on it for the app your interested in
[18:13] <balloons> for example, for weather, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/CoreApps/Weather
[18:13] <balloons> it has nice links to the project page, the team, blueprint, etc
[18:14] <balloons> Finally, pick a test to add. You can use the links on this page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/CoreApps/Testing to pick something. An open bug is something that is needed.
[18:15] <balloons> for example, the list of needed tests for the rss reader; https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-rssreader-app/+bugs?field.tag=needs-autopilot-test
[18:15] <drsaurabhsikka> trying it out...
[18:15] <balloons> Now the last step.. how in the world do I write a test? Well, I suggest writing your test in english first. Go through the steps yourself in the application and note what happens as you click and interact with things
[18:16] <balloons> the list of actions becomes your action steps for your testcase.
[18:16] <balloons> meanwhile, anything that happens in response to your interactions becomes something you can "assert" about
[18:16] <balloons> Let's look at the tutorial quickly for an example;
[18:16] <balloons> http://developer.ubuntu.com/resources/tutorials/quality/how-to-write-autopilot-tests/
[18:17] <balloons> Inside the test_clear_button function we do a simple action
[18:17] <balloons> click the clear button. To ensure the action was successful, we as a user would want to see the fields are cleared
[18:17] <balloons> this is how it looks in autopilot:
[18:17] <balloons>     #click the clear button
[18:17] <balloons>     self.pointing_device.click_object(clearButton)
[18:17] <balloons>
[18:17] <balloons>     #confirm fields have been wiped
[18:17] <balloons>     self.assertThat(fromField.text, Eventually(Equals('0.0')))
[18:17] <balloons>     self.assertThat(toField.text, Eventually(Equals('0.0')))
[18:18] <balloons> so you can see us using autopilot to click the clear button, and then have our assertions that the fields have been cleared
[18:18] <balloons> That's the basics of any good test.. interact and then assert
[18:19] <balloons> So, with that I'd like to get to answering any questions you may have or help you get your environment setup, pick an app or test to write, etc
[18:20] <drsaurabhsikka> ok, so I installed python-autopilot, and connected with bzr branch dropping letters
[18:20] <balloons> perfect.. drsaurabhsikka I actually have to add the needed tests for that app.. it was on my todo list from this morning :-)
[18:21] <drsaurabhsikka> Branched 32 revisions it says
[18:21] <drsaurabhsikka> :)
[18:21] <balloons> lovely. so at the moment that application doesn't have any tests.. Let's change that shall we?
[18:22] <balloons> let me file the couple bugs for the needed tests
[18:22] <balloons> first things first, you should run the app and get a feel for how it works :-)
[18:22] <balloons> we'll try writing a test for something basic, like starting a new game
[18:23] <drsaurabhsikka> is this a game? dropping letters?
[18:23] <balloons> yes, in fact it's one of the 2 games in the core apps
[18:23] <drsaurabhsikka> how do i install it?
[18:23] <balloons> sudoku is the other one
[18:23] <balloons> ahh good question
[18:23] <balloons> so you don't need to install it in order to run it. however there is a ppa with all the core apps you can install
[18:24] <balloons> so first, to run the core app do this
[18:25] <balloons> qmlscene dropping-letters.qml
[18:25] <balloons> for the ppa, follow the info here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/CoreApps/PPA
[18:25] <balloons> you can add and install all the core apps this way and run them as you would any other application
[18:26] <balloons> after installing from the ppa, it would simply be "dropping-letters"
[18:27] <drsaurabhsikka> added the ppa, now updating
[18:27] <drsaurabhsikka> ...
[18:29] <balloons> ok, this app is a bit different from the other core apps because it's a game.. but games are more fun right?
[18:30] <netcurli> should autopilot tests also test how fast the app reacts to an action? eg. check for activity indicators? or should they just focus on the actual reaction?
[18:32] <nik90> Is there a way to pause the autopilot for say 2-3 seconds to let an action run in the background?
[18:32] <balloons> netcurli, interesting question. I would say that depends on the application
[18:32] <drsaurabhsikka> can't install. qtdeclarative5-* are missing dependencies
[18:32] <balloons> specific reaction timing could be useful inside a game for instance I'd guess
[18:33] <balloons> drsaurabhsikka, ahh.. you probably don't have the ubuntu-sdk installed
[18:33] <drsaurabhsikka> nope
[18:33] <balloons> one sec, I'll fix you up
[18:34] <balloons> sudo apt-get install ubuntu-sdk
[18:34] <balloons> you shouldn't need the ppa anymore if you are on saucy
[18:34] <balloons> but the ppas are
[18:34] <balloons>  sudo add-apt-repository ppa:canonical-qt5-edgers/qt5-proper && sudo add-apt-repository ppa:ubuntu-sdk-team/ppa && sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get install ubuntu-sdk
[18:34] <xeranas> How I should know that after clear field value should be e.g. "0.0" and not e.g. "blank", where I should check how application suppose to work
[18:35] <juggle> how i can create a bug for a specific test-case ?
[18:35] <balloons> ok so netcurli in response to your question again, most of the time we don't care about speed. I've not had to write a test yet that cared about the speed of execution. it would be more difficult to do so
[18:36] <balloons> nik90, what do you mean pause? generally we avoid sleeping, and instead use an assert with the eventually function
[18:36] <balloons> xeranas, the example app I know the clear value should be 0.0 from running the application  and pressing the button to check and examining the source
[18:37] <balloons> if your curious, specifically you can open the qml file and see the values are set to 0.0
[18:37] <nik90> balloons: well I was creating a test to add a world clock which it did, however it takes a fraction of a second to add it to the database. However autopilot immediately closes the app before that task is complete.
[18:37] <nik90> this results in no world clock being added
[18:37] <balloons> so xeranas let me paste where I'm talking about so you can see it
[18:37] <drsaurabhsikka> doing the ppa thing, as I'm still on quantal
[18:38] <omac777> Sorry for interrupting, for the past year I have installed 12.04, 12.10, 13.04  and every time I installed, the AMD Catalyst display drivers were released at the same time as the ubuntu newer releases which then broke my display for months until AMD caught up.  Can we do this autopilot stuff in 12.10 without issues?
[18:38] <balloons> drsaurabhsikka, ohh, quantal isn't new enough for this to work sadly.. it really needs to be raring or preferably saucy
[18:39] <balloons> xeranas, http://paste.ubuntu.com/5841225/.
[18:39] <omac777> I meant AMD never releases Catalyst drivers to sync up to Ubuntu's newer releases right away.  I do have 13.04.  Can we do this autopilot stuff using 13.04?
[18:40] <nik90> omac777: yes you can use 13.04
[18:40] <balloons> juggle, go to the project page and select the "report a bug" under the bugs tab. It's the same as for any other application
[18:41] <balloons> omac777, yea we don't want you to break your display! That said I am running saucy and usually swap between the open drivers and amd drivers without issue. your mileage has obviously varied, and I understand
[18:42] <balloons> nik90, ahh ok.. what happens after you add the world clock/
[18:42] <balloons> does anything happen in the UI?
[18:43] <balloons> if not we can still use python to confirm the entry was created in the database outside of the UI. but if the test has no UI elements it might make more sense as a unit test
[18:43] <balloons> nik90, ^^
[18:43] <drsaurabhsikka> saucy not yet installed...digging it up...
[18:43] <balloons> drsaurabhsikka, :-) things will work much nicer then
[18:44] <balloons> so xeranas, how are you coming along? any other questions I can answer?
[18:45] <xeranas> I'm still things setting-up, so far I do not see tests sample yet, so I wonder how much one test should cover functionality
[18:47] <balloons> xeranas, in general tests should be focused and specific. Test one thing per test; I like to just logically group one set of ideas of bit of functionality per test. They also need to be standalone and not require any dependencies as a test should be able to run in any order. That means it needs to do it's own setup if needed.
[18:48] <xeranas> make sense
[18:50] <Vasudevan> balloons,  which  branch has the most recent fixes for ubuntu-autopilot-tests to try during saucy cadence week2?
[18:51] <balloons> Vasudevan, I'm not quite sure what you mean by your question. However, the prod branch always has the most recent stable versions of the ubuntu-autopilot-tests project
[18:52] <balloons> Vasudevan, so lp:ubuntu-autopilot-tests/production
[18:52] <Vasudevan> balloons, you mean  bzr branch lp:ubuntu-autopilot-tests
[18:52] <balloons> Vasudevan, yes that will branch trunk. If you want the stable working tests to run for some reason you can branch lp:ubuntu-autopilot-tests/production
[18:53] <balloons> DanChapman, ohh since we got on this sidebar :-) I noticed you pushed evince to prod but not development :-)
[18:53] <balloons> DanChapman, Can you push evince to Development too? :-p
[18:54] <DanChapman> balloons, yeah mate. Was going to do that next.. just had to have dinner first :-)
[18:54] <balloons> lgp171188, so to answer your question. the clock, rss reader, calendar, weather and file manager all have working autopilot tests
[18:55] <balloons> checkout any of those branches to see some examples of autopilot tests and run/play with them
[18:55] <drsaurabhsikka> be back soon...
[18:55] <lgp171188> balloons: Thanks, I will do that.
[18:56] <balloons> lgp171188, of course.. You missed the intro pieces as well.. but the quick version is have a look at the tutorial here for an example and explanation: http://developer.ubuntu.com/resources/tutorials/quality/how-to-write-autopilot-tests/
[18:57] <lgp171188> balloons: Thank you, I will go through that. I was anyways planning to attend Friday's session that is at a more convenient time for me here in India.
[18:57] <balloons> it walk through the app and the autopilot test, real simple and explains things
[18:57] <balloons> lgp171188, sounds great1
[18:58] <balloons> lgp171188, make sure you have a saucy installation and go through that. you'll be all set
[18:59] <balloons> any other questions?
[18:59] <Vasudevan> balloons,  upgraded the suacy vm for cadence w2, and pulled the latest from lp:ubuntu-autopilot-tests; saw many errors - thats why I asked
[18:59] <balloons> Vasudevan, ahh gotcha. Yea, the prod branch I linked should not error at all
[19:00] <balloons> the development branch might not run 100%, hence the distinction :-)
[19:00] <balloons> xeranas, were you able to get setup?
[19:01] <Vasudevan> balloons, thanks, will  try again..
[19:03] <balloons> thanks to everyone who came out.. feel free to ping or email me at anytime. I'm not running away anywhere, so feel free to keep working and asking questions, I'll be here.
[19:03] <balloons> thanks again, and happy hacking on tests!
[19:04] <balloons> Also remember, we have 3 more scheduled sessions, and your welcome to attend any/all of them as you wish
[19:09] <drsaurabhsikka> am back
[19:11] <drsaurabhsikka> how much of python does one need to know in order to run the autopilot
[19:11] <balloons> drsaurabhsikka, it's not bad, and I can do it :-)
[19:12] <balloons> if you learn the couple little autopilot functions you can skate throught most things
[19:13] <drsaurabhsikka> ok, i've got a saucy edubuntu DVD burned
[19:14] <drsaurabhsikka> be back soon
[19:16] <balloons> nik90, did you get your question answered properly? And more than that can you solve your problem? :-)
[19:34] <drsaurabhsikka> balloons, why can't i upgrade from 12.10 to 13.10 - the option is there but greyed out
[19:37] <balloons> drsaurabhsikka, you can't straight upgrade to saucy from 12.10
[19:37] <balloons> only one at a time..
[19:37] <balloons> 12.10 to 13.04
[19:37] <balloons> etc
[19:37] <balloons> ohh are you in the installer?
[19:38] <balloons> you could simply install saucy over an existing install.. all of your /home will stay intact, but you'll have the default packages again
[19:39] <drsaurabhsikka> yes. so that's a useful bit of info that should be in the installer
[19:43] <drsaurabhsikka> i mean it's rather rude of the installer to detect my fedora and quantal partitions, even suggest i can upgrade, then just grey it out without a beg your pardon
[19:45] <drsaurabhsikka> :) should we file that as a bug>?
[19:47] <balloons> drsaurabhsikka, sorry to hear that :-(
[19:47] <balloons> drsaurabhsikka, sure file it.. It might be as expected, but it sounds like the experience was a bit confusing for you
[19:48] <balloons> I'm not sure why it told you to upgrade
[19:48] <nik90> balloons: sry, I had to go. Yes on adding the world clock you can see the entry in the saved world listview
[19:48] <balloons> nik90, then I would use an assert with an eventually checking that entry. make sense?
[19:48] <nik90> I will just do a UI check to see if it added the entry
[19:48] <nik90> yes
[19:48] <balloons> indeed :-) but you could do a non-UI check.. just in case you ever need to do it
[19:49] <balloons> but I would question why that's an autopilot test then unless only part of it was ui, etc, etc
[19:50] <nik90> I just want to make sure sure that adding a world clock works by checking the saved world clock list
[19:50] <nik90> so I think I could resort to the UI alone
[19:51] <balloons> ;-) sounds like a plan
[19:51] <mhall119> balloons: can you give https://code.launchpad.net/~abreu-alexandre/ubuntu-html5-theme/package-autopilot-tests/+merge/172883 a once-over?
[19:52] <balloons> mhall119, sure.. It'll be a bit, but I'll leave some remarks before EOD :-)
[19:52] <xeranas> Just run sample test and everything seems work OK.
[19:53] <balloons> xeranas, :-)
[19:53] <balloons> pretty neat eh?
[19:56] <drsaurabhsikka> more impersonal than confusing. We're all about better UX, aren't we?
[19:56] <balloons> most definitely
[19:57] <drsaurabhsikka> getting there...meanwhile
[20:00] <balloons> drsaurabhsikka, the cool part is you can chat with xnox directly here about how it works and give direct feedback
[20:00] <balloons> :-)
[20:02] <balloons> so xeranas just keep in touch if you need anything. Once you pick a core app to go after, you can get help from the development teams themselves.. most of them hang out in #ubuntu-touch
[20:02] <balloons> so autopilot or app help, we've got you covered
[20:02] <drsaurabhsikka> xnox?
[20:05] <xeranas> balloons: thanks, I'll keep that in mind.
[20:06] <mhall119> thanks balloons
[20:07] <balloons> drsaurabhsikka, yes he's one of the ubiquity devs.. it's nighttime for him so he's not around, but I wanted to mention it
[20:13] <drsaurabhsikka> that's awesome to know. Thanks
[20:14] <drsaurabhsikka> the LTSP project is new in this version...?\
[20:16] <DanChapman> nite folks see you all  tomorrow
[20:18] <drsaurabhsikka> gnite Dan
[20:24] <balloons> drsaurabhsikka, yes.. it's the big thing :-)
[20:51] <drsaurabhsikka> balloons, i've installed it. quick Q: do i need to update my launchpad keys?
[20:52] <balloons> drsaurabhsikka, excellent. Umm you could if you nuked things
[20:52] <balloons> but if you didn't and kept your home it should continue to work
[20:52] <balloons> even if the user@host doesn't match.. it will in the key :-)
[20:53] <drsaurabhsikka> it's on another partition now, dual booting with quantal
[20:54] <balloons> ahh.. well feel free to add a key then
[20:54] <balloons> you can have more than one :-)
[20:55] <drsaurabhsikka> i admire your patience.
[20:56] <drsaurabhsikka> i'll update things and catch you on friday for the next session?
[20:56] <balloons> that sounds like a plan mate
[20:56] <balloons> you might want to grab a branch of say the clock or calendar, weather, etc that has tests to start with
[20:57] <balloons> it will be easier to see
[20:57] <drsaurabhsikka> i'll do that
[21:02] <drsaurabhsikka> goodnite for now. Thanks balloons
[21:02] <balloons> goodnight!