[12:18] <_StarScream> QMario: hang on..still looking
[12:19] <_StarScream> QMario: i know XGI "were" meant to be making linux open source drivers...whether they "have" yet or not is another thing.
[12:20] <_StarScream> QMario: http://www.xgitech.com/sd/sd_download.asp
[12:20] <_StarScream> apparently it has drivers for RH and Suse, they shoudl work
[12:21] <gdh> just pop it into /usr/X11/lib/modules/drivers yeh?
[12:22] <gdh> *X11R6
[12:25] <QMario> Hold on, I am sharing one Ethernet cable. I will be off the internet periodically. Thank You for helping me. :)
[12:43] <QMario> (17:41:48) QMario: Where do I find my downloaded files?
[12:44] <QMario> I clicked download several times, but could not find the files. Where do I find them?
[12:45] <lscd> what are you using to download them, firefox?
[12:46] <QMario> Konqueror..
[12:46] <lscd> ok... did you get a dialog box asking where you wanted to save stuff?
[12:47] <QMario> Wait, hold on. Let me try again.... :/
[12:47] <QMario> :-/
[12:47] <lscd> QMario: if you remember part of the filename, you can do the following command, in a konsole: find ~ -iname '*the-thing-i-remember*'
[12:51] <gdh> I had a quick look at that site, and selecing Volare V3 -> Linux Red Hat -> OK just brought back the download screen again
[12:51] <gdh> even with cookies accepted for that site
[12:52] <gdh> another example of clueless web developers
[12:52] <lscd> hmm
[12:52] <lscd> url?
[12:52] <gdh> see earlier :)
[12:52] <gdh> [23:20]  <_StarScream> QMario: http://www.xgitech.com/sd/sd_download.asp
[12:52] <lscd> ahhhh
[12:53] <lscd> it works in firefox, fwiw
[12:53] <gdh> sounds about right.
[01:01] <Sgeo> Hi all
[01:01] <Sgeo> If I download Kubuntu Live from the main site, will it have KDE 3.4.2?
[01:01] <Sgeo> (Just double-checking)
[01:02] <gdh> Sgeo: If you didn't download it from the URL in the topic, then no, it won't
[01:02] <QMario> Okay.
[01:03] <Sgeo> ty
[01:03] <Sgeo> Does Kubuntu Live have X-Chat?
[01:04] <gdh> I doubt it
[01:04] <gdh> likely has Konversation tho'
[01:04] <Sgeo> ty
[01:06] <Sgeo> Hi paulo
[01:06] <paulo> hi. Does anyone know how to export geo data from kaddressbook to the kworldclock?
[01:06] <paulo> hi Sgeo
[01:07] <paulo> you have a suitable name, can you answer my question?
[01:07] <gdh> haha :)
[01:07] <moparfan90> hello
[01:08] <paulo> hello
[01:09] <Sgeo> Are the programs on Kubuntu Live the same as the programs in an installed version?
[01:10] <paulo> I have no idea
[01:11] <moparfan90> i think.
[01:12] <delltony> if you update the repositories and then do apt-get on the program then no they will be the lastest greatest but otherwise ya
[01:14] <paulo> what are files with a .desktop extension. Can I do something with them?
[01:16] <Aapzak> hey Key!   Bought a rt2500 based card today, using it right now, I'm happy. It connects a lot faster and better than the otherone too. It changes speed if the signal is not good enough, really really good
[01:16] <Aapzak> kay:
[01:17] <_P_> Aapzak: yep :)
[01:17] <delltony> they are what the menus are made from it tells what category say internet and the name of it and the icon and all paulo
[01:17] <Aapzak> you got a rt2500 too?
[01:20] <QMario> Which part of the file should I put in the '/usr/X11/lib/modules/drivers' directory?
[01:20] <paulo> delltony: Thanks
[01:20] <gdh> QMario: anything called "<something>_drv.so"
[01:21] <QMario> Gdh, should I extract anything?
[01:21] <gdh> I have no idea whatsoever.
[01:21] <delltony> extract from a file or what?
[01:21] <kay>  Aapzak good news :)
[01:21] <gdh> no idea what you have - never seen it before, nor do I know if you can use modules compiled for XFree86 with Xorg...
[01:21] <QMario> Yes, for drivers.
[01:22] <delltony> did you download like a tarball o something?
[01:23] <delltony> and your wanting to extract the files?
[01:23] <QMario> Delltony, an RPM in a .tgz file.
[01:24] <delltony> so have you tar xvzf'd the thing first?
[01:24] <nikkia> delltony, .desktop files can do more than that, they are also how the KDE equivalent of the 'startup' folder is implemented
[01:24] <delltony> yeah i was just giving that example
[01:27] <Aapzak> ok, thatsit for today, I'm off to bed, cu l8r!
[01:27] <kay> nikkia: With sessions I get that too, not?
[01:27] <nikkia> kay ?
[01:28] <kay> Well, why do I need autorun, when logging in automatically starts everything that was running when i logged out
[01:28] <kay> I kind of achieve the same effect for kontact that if it was autostart'ed
[01:28] <nikkia> kay, because auto-start'ed apps are started regardless of whether they were running at the time the session snapshot was taken
[01:28] <delltony> this freakin sucks my visual studios disk has a spot on it
[01:28] <delltony> like it melted or something
[01:28] <Sgeo_2> Visual Studio?
[01:29] <kay> Well, but I imagine for most people this is the same effekt, and that explains why it is not so well known
[01:29] <kay> People can keep things started by keeping it running always
[01:29] <nikkia> kay, some things run once and exit
[01:30] <nikkia> like my xmodmap that is run from /usr/share/autostart
[01:30] <delltony> yeah i gotta write some microcrap code in good of cough cough vb
[01:30] <kay> Well, I don't have that kind of need
[01:30] <kay> And I guess not all people have. :p
[01:30] <nikkia> kay, and given that autostart and sessions are handled by *exactly the same process*...
[01:31] <kay> I am not saying it were useless, just it has a lot less uses than in a system with no session management
[01:31] <nikkia> kay,  i see questions about 'how to run something at startup' all the time, and it almost always ends up in a suggestion to use .xinitrc, which sadly isn't universally executed by KDE
[01:32] <kay> Hm... there is also a user autostart folder, isn't there?
[01:32] <nikkia> not that i can see :/
[01:32] <nikkia> should be, IMO
[01:32] <kay> I think in the company we use it for a product
[01:33] <kay> .kde/share/autostart exists on my breezy
[01:33] <kay> You don't need root for that
[01:33] <QMario> Gdh, how will I know when the driver works?
[01:33] <QMario> Should I restart my computer?
[01:33] <Sgeo_2> Does the Kubuntu Installer have KDE 3.4.2?
[01:33] <QMario> Yes.
[01:33] <gdh> QMario: we're really poking in the dark here... what have you done so far?
[01:34] <gdh> Sgeo: no, Kubuntu hoary has KDE 3.4.0
[01:34] <gdh> Sgeo: as mentioned previously, 3.4.2 is only on the CD in the IRC /topic
[01:34] <kay> But you can installer 3.4.2 later on, as you see in topic, Sgeo_2
[01:34] <Sgeo_2> ty
[01:34] <boga> what do I do at installation so that by the end of it, my system has beautiful fonts?
[01:35] <gdh> Breezy is released in October - it will support the current KDE version
[01:35] <kay> When was 3.5 to be out?
[01:36] <nikkia> kay, ah, its configurable, defaults to ~/.kde/Autostart on standard KDE sources
[01:36] <nikkia> kay, in the 'Paths' section of kcontrol
[01:36] <kay> End of october the KDE 3.5 release may happen. So Breezy may not have the latest KDE in it
[01:36] <kay> At the time of its release that is
[01:37] <gdh> well yes tehre needs to be some time for testing :)
[01:38] <kay> nikkia: Ah... well, making everything configurable is not always making it nicer.
[01:38] <kay> Maybe home:/ gains an autostart subfolder?
[01:38] <nikkia> kay, actually, thats one path where i can see it being useful to be configurable
[01:38] <nikkia> kay, as you can easily switch between different autostart folders to test
[01:39] <kay> nikkia: Ah, didn't think of that
[01:39] <kay> It's just, well, if I were a script, how would I know?
[01:39] <nikkia> there are only a handful of (post-install) KDE paths that are configurable, and most of them seem to make sense
[01:40] <nikkia> kay, its probably set in an environment variable, knowing the KDE people :)
[01:40] <kay> No, there is kde-config
[01:40] <kay> Which you can query kde-config --userpath autostart
[01:41] <nikkia> kay, so there is
[01:41] <kay> Or desktop and so on, well OK..... making things even readable.
[01:41] <kay> That's great then...
[01:42] <kay> Do you know when it is run?
[01:42] <nikkia> kay, and --localprefix for the user's kde path
[01:42] <kay> Before or after session?
[01:42] <nikkia> kay, autostart? its run BY ksmserver
[01:42] <kay> well, if i have a session and autostart, which runs first?
[01:43] <nikkia> don't know what the sequence is inside ksmserver, let me check
[01:48] <paulo> so if I have a file called geo_xxport.desktop can I do something with it?
[01:48] <paulo> What I want to do is export the kaddressbook's geo data to the world clock, but I can't find any script, or executable
[01:49] <nikkia> paulo, the .desktop file is a script, sort of
[01:54] <paulo> oh, I found it, it's in the File menu
[01:54] <nikkia> kay, i can't actually see in the ksmserver sources where autostart is involked at all
[01:58] <nikkia> kay, a web search suggests that its configurable per .desktop file thought, but i don't see anything about 'how'
[02:02] <Sgeo> re all
[02:02] <Sgeo> The new LiveCD doesn't work for me
[02:03] <boga> did u burn it yrself?
[02:03] <Sgeo> Near the end of startup, it talks about things spawning too fast
[02:03] <Sgeo> Yes
[02:04] <boga> disable acpi
[02:04] <Sgeo> How?
[02:05] <boga> u should be having some way of entering parametres at boot. But I have forgotten the syntax....read the boot options carefully
[02:05] <Sgeo> acpi?
[02:05] <gdh> the kernel param is 'noacpi'
[02:05] <Sgeo> ty
[02:07] <Sgeo> I never needed to do that with other LiveCD's though
[02:08] <boga> that's why we have distros. they are different. is it OK now?
[02:08] <boga> ?
[02:09] <boga> k
[02:23] <_jeff> is there update manager applet for kubuntu (kde)?  I want to be notified whenever package updates are available.
[02:23] <gdh> no. one is planned for the next release.
[02:23] <gdh> (october)
[02:23] <_jeff> okee dokee then
[02:24] <gdh> 5.04 was the first spin of kubuntu, so there's plenty of room for improvement :)
[02:26] <QMario> Gdh, sorry I have not answered in a while. I just copied the driver file from the the package to the driver directory.
[02:27] <gdh> QMario: 'driver' being some file named like (blah)_drv.so ?
[02:29] <QMario> Gdh, yes.
[02:29] <QMario> Trident_drv.so.
[02:29] <QMario> 'trident_drv.so'
[02:29] <gdh> it just uses the trident driver? gosh.
[02:30] <gdh> there should've been one of those already...
[02:30] <gdh> in that case you should be good to just reboot and it'll try the new driver.
[02:30] <gdh> IF it fails and X won't load....
[02:30] <gdh> make a note of this....
[02:30] <gdh> sudo nano /etc/X11/xorg.conf
[02:30] <MikeEnIke> Hey
[02:31] <gdh> find the line that says "driver "trident"" and replace with driver "vesa" then reboot again..
[02:31] <gdh> that will at least get you back to a usable desktop
[02:31] <gdh> vesa is a very simple and generic VGA driver that works with everything.
[02:32] <gdh> no acceleration , but it willget you a picture :)
[02:33] <QMario> What does acceleration mean in terms of a video card?
[02:34] <MikeEnIke> Does anyone know like a tutorial where I can learn linux and it's commands and stuff I only know basic stuff as I am soon to install kubuntu and it will be my first time installing linux
[02:35] <QMario> Gdh, the picture is still skewed... :-/
[02:36] <QMario> Is it possible to install using the manufacturer's CD?
[02:36] <gdh> heh no :) that only has Windows drivers.
[02:36] <gdh> You can try using the 'vesa' driver, just out of interest...
[02:36] <QMario> Will it give me a good picture?
[02:36] <gdh> if it doesn't .. just change it back :)
[02:37] <gdh> no harm in trying
[02:38] <Sgeo> re all
[02:38] <Sgeo> It still doesn't work
[02:40] <Sgeo> hi kalenedrael
[02:40] <QMario> The driver already has vesa.
[02:40] <QMario> Gdh, so should I change it?
[02:40] <kalenedrael> hello
[02:41] <gdh> QMario: if you've not changed it before.... you should try changing it to 'trident' ...
[02:41] <QMario> Okay!
[02:41] <gdh> I dunno what you mean by 'skewed' really.... it's not something you can adjust
[02:41] <gdh> using the controls on your monitor?
[02:48] <QMario> Gdh, how do I know when X Windows refuses to start?
[02:49] <gdh> you don't get a graphical login screen :)
[02:49] <gdh> a fairly simple test :)
[02:50] <QMario> Well, that's happening to me, and it hurts to my ears why my video card doesn't work with Linux. :( I guess I have to change it back to vesa.
[02:52] <TestMAD> what kind of video card you got?
[02:53] <gdh> [23:08]  <QMario> Volari V3
[02:53] <gdh> a gfx chip I'd never heard of before tonight
[02:55] <TestMAD> its made by chaintec
[02:55] <TestMAD> and its a decent card for 50$
[02:55] <QMario> $32.50 :)
[02:56] <TestMAD> sweet..i bet it would werk great for a mythtv box
[02:56] <TestMAD> lemme see if i can find any help on that drivre for you
[02:56] <TestMAD> thats more than likely the issue..
[02:57] <TestMAD> as with nvidia cards..
[02:57] <TestMAD> the drivers arent included with the distro
[02:57] <TestMAD> so youre going to have to find some and compile them.
[02:58] <gdh> TestMAD: for ref, so far we found a driver for redhat at http://www.xgitech.com/sd/sd_download.asp ... found a trident_drv.so inside that .. and replaced the default trident_drv.so with it.
[02:58] <gdh> and no joy
[02:58] <gdh> I've not gone as far as looking at xorg logs :)
[02:58] <gdh> just 'works' or 'not works' :)
[02:59] <TestMAD> QMario: its and xga card right?
[02:59] <moparfan90> hello. does anyone here use fluxbox?
[02:59] <QMario> XGA?
[02:59] <QMario> TestMAD, huh?
[02:59] <TestMAD> its xga
[02:59] <TestMAD> slv3
[03:00] <QMario> TestMAD, here is some of the information on the video card: http://www.chaintechusa.com/tw/eng/product_spec.asp?MPSNo=14&PISNo=308 .
[03:01] <TestMAD> did you try the suse rpm driver too?
[03:02] <TestMAD> would there be a difference between it and the redhat version?
[03:03] <TestMAD> i may have found some drivers]
[03:03] <TestMAD> 3rd party tho
[03:03] <QMario> No, I just tried the Redhat driver from the 32-bit folder.
[03:03] <QMario> I'm desperate for anything that works.
[03:03] <TestMAD> http://www.xgitech.com/sd/sd_download2.asp
[03:04] <TestMAD> try that link
[03:05] <TestMAD> QMario: youre gonna want this one - Z7-Linux-Xorg-6.8.2 for i386
[03:06] <TestMAD> it only does 2d tho..no 3d
[03:06] <TestMAD> but itll get x running
[03:07] <TestMAD> QMario: als otry this site for support for drivers and install tips
[03:07] <TestMAD> http://www.volarigamers.com/
[03:07] <TestMAD> they may have better drivers
[03:08] <TestMAD> but from what ive read already..it seems that xgi drivers and most linux kernels dont get along too well
[03:08] <QMario> Okay, thank you. Let me see if it works. :)
[03:08] <gdh> messy... converying that rpm to a deb with alien produces the driver in /usr/X11R6/tmp/
[03:09] <TestMAD> i think i got him fixed up gdh
[03:09] <gdh> cool.
[03:09] <TestMAD> read back..
[03:09] <TestMAD> i found 2 sites for his card to look at..one is a link to drivers
[03:09] <gdh> am referring to the xorg 6.8.2 i386 one :)
[03:09] <TestMAD> only 2d tho
[03:09] <TestMAD> ahh
[03:09] <TestMAD> and the other is a site dedicated to the volari
[03:10] <gdh> xgi are a new player in the gfxcard market then?
[03:10] <TestMAD> but like i said..great card for MSMC but not for linux
[03:10] <gdh> decided that ati + nvidia have been having too much fun ?
[03:10] <TestMAD> no..its a type of vid
[03:10] <TestMAD> as in .. ega..cga..vga...svga..xga
[03:11] <satch_> hi all  - im having problems using debootstrap - it craps out because it cant download base-passwd - any workaround for this ?
[03:11] <gdh> er, you sure? http://www.xgitech.com/
[03:11] <TestMAD> yea
[03:11] <TestMAD> im sure
[03:11] <TestMAD> wait
[03:11] <TestMAD> n/m
[03:11] <TestMAD> thats xgi
[03:11] <TestMAD> i was thinkin xga
 :)
[03:12] <gdh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XGA
[03:12] <gdh> old old stuff 1990 :)
[03:12] <gdh> 'XGA' still used by wankers like Dell to describe stuff... usually notebook screens
[03:12] <QMario> Should I do any converting with the driver?
[03:13] <TestMAD> i dunno..ask gdh on that
[03:13] <TestMAD> i gotta eat
[03:13] <QMario> Converting packages.
[03:13] <TestMAD> bbl
[03:13] <gdh> lol
[03:13] <QMario> Oh okay, thank you for your help. :)
[03:13] <gdh> QMario: it really is the blind leading the blind here.. :/
[03:13] <gdh> I've only the faintest notion of how any of this works :)
[03:14] <Sgeo> BBL. Restarting under Gentoo Linux
[03:20] <gdh> QMario: I'm outta ideas.. http://www.webspawner.com/users/dell5160/ says to do basically waht you did - use the V3 driver and just replace the trident_drv.so driver...
[03:20] <gdh> I mean, you can try using the 'Videoram 32768' line in the 'device' section.. but that's a really long shot :/
[03:22] <gdh> of course, those are for XFree 4.3.0 (which ships with Debian sarge) while Kubuntu uses xorg 6.8.2....
[03:29] <QMario> Gdh, let me try the website.  GTK1.x loveliness
[03:38] <aseigo> yes, and a poor user interface at that
[03:39] <gdh> its stength is all is integrated, no reliance on cdrecord and parsing text output, etc.
[03:54] <gdh> Are there any German speakers in the house tonight? :)
[03:56] <scythe> hello all
[04:04] <QMario> Gdh, what is the problem when the monitor suddenly turns off?
[04:05] <QMario> When trying to load X.
[04:05] <gdh> Usually X has exceeded the capabilities of your monitor
[04:06] <gdh> too high a resolution / too high refresh rate
[04:06] <gdh> ....
[04:06] <gdh> or just the driver is wildly incompatible :)
[04:16] <QMario> Besides 'vesa', is there a substitute driver for my video card?
[04:16] <QMario> It doesn't seem to be working.
[04:17] <gdh> I'm the  wrong person to ask, really :)
[04:17] <gdh> and everyone else has fallen asleep ...
[04:18] <QMario> Do you mean passed away(died) or literally fallen asleep? :)
[04:21] <gdh> ;)
[04:21] <gdh> who knows?
[04:30] <necrogami> node crash?
[04:35] <scythe> how do i get k3b to decode and read my dvds?
[04:36] <gdh> my best understanding is that k3b doesn't do that.
[04:36] <gdh> and I have no idea what does :)
[04:37] <scythe> it can, and i think it has to do with transcode... but i cant seem to get enough info from the help files
[04:37] <necrogami> scythe: movies? Xine
[04:37] <scythe> no, not for watching, i have xine, xineui, and libdvdcss installed already
[04:37] <necrogami> scythe: movies apt-get install xine xine-ui
[04:37] <gdh> then you're already more clued up than I am on the matter :)
[04:37] <necrogami> Data dvd's?
[04:37] <scythe> there is a way to decode dvds with k3b
[04:37] <scythe> movies
[04:38] <scythe> brb
[04:38] <necrogami> ----------------
[04:39] <necrogami> +------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------....................................................................................----------+
[04:39] <necrogami> -----+
[04:39] <necrogami> ----
[04:39] <scythe> check chapter 3 of the help file
[04:39] <necrogami> +----------------------------------------------
[04:39] <necrogami> ++++++++++++++
[04:39] <scythe> i cant seem to find transcode
[04:39] <necrogami> sorry
[04:39] <necrogami> was cleaning the bottom of my keyboard of sticky shit
[04:39] <scythe> np
[04:40] <gdh> http://k3b.plainblack.com/videoencoding ?
[04:40] <scythe> brb cat /etc/beer |more
[04:40] <gdh> (3rd google hit for k3b dvd rip)
[04:40] <scythe> ahh, i was trying to go through the help menu, thanx for the link gdh
[04:44] <scythe> dang, i am getting a 403 error for the transcode website
[04:44] <scythe> doh!
[04:45] <scythe> and i cant find dvd::rip
[04:46] <scythe> anyone have any suggestions, i travel a lot and dont want to take the original dvd's with me
[04:46] <gdh> not on cpan?
[04:47] <scythe> cpan?
[04:47] <gdh> http://www.exit1.org/dvdrip/
[04:47] <gdh> ?
[04:47] <scythe> do you have all of these url's memorized?
[04:47] <gdh> come on, work with me here.. i used google for "dvd::rip" and that was the first hit...
[04:50] <scythe> sorry, have a six pack in me, not thinking too well
[04:50] <gdh> esp. http://www.exit1.org/dvdrip/doc/install.cipp#debian
[04:51] <gdh> have bitter + 4xlager + 2xwhisky in me.. :)
[04:51] <scythe> 4 killians
[04:51] <QMario>  Do any of you guys know if the 'CHAINTECH SLV3-128 Volari V3 128MB DDR  AGP 4X/8X Video Card' will work with any Linux distributions?
[04:52] <scythe> uhhh.... what is the chipset, nvidia, or ati (hope hope)
[04:52] <gdh> scythe: This has been going on all night - it's an XGI 'Volari V3' .. XGI are a newcomer to the gfx market...
[04:52] <scythe> ahh
[04:53] <scythe> anyone here deal with sony burners very often?
[04:53] <gdh> QMario: You really would save yourself a lot of pain by just buying a $30 Radeon 7000 etc. .....
[04:53] <QMario> Gdh, where?
[04:53] <scythe> ive had two die very quickly after purchase and am wondering if im am just jinxed
[04:54] <gdh> any online shop - the 7000 is one of the early radeons....
[04:54] <gdh> basically buy the cheapest radeon or nvidia card you can find...
[04:54] <gdh> because it will be well supported with linux drivers
[04:55] <gdh> scythe: don't suppose you were burning PS2 games on it? :)
[04:55] <scythe> qmario, you can dl a tar from xgi's website.  looks like it has been tested on suse and redhat
[04:56] <scythe> no, gdh, i wasnt
[04:56] <gdh> scythe: We've been through this :)
[04:56] <scythe> i havent burned anything illegal
[04:56] <gdh> the tar.gz contains XFree 4.3 drivers, not xorg ones...
[04:56] <scythe> ahh
[04:56] <gdh> scythe: hehe was just wondering :)
[04:57] <gdh> It would just not surprise me if Sony firmware had a self-destruct mechanism
[04:57] <gdh> if you were burning playstation games...
[04:57] <scythe> well, sony supports ms very well.... i have been buring linux distros with it :)
[04:57] <scythe> but its frustrating, i have a dvd -rw that works as well as a dvd rom
[04:58] <scythe> and a cdrw that works as well as a cdrom
[04:58] <gdh> http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/products/index.html?rb=9298818724&action=c2hvd19wcm9kdWN0X292ZXJ2aWV3&product_uid=58356
[04:58] <gdh> insanity ... 19 for a DVD-RW...
[04:58] <scythe> laptop ... and broke
[04:58] <scythe> :)
[04:59] <gdh> ouch
[04:59] <gdh> USB time, then :/
[04:59] <scythe> hehe
[04:59] <scythe> have a sony firewire/usb2 burning im going to start using when i get back home
[05:00] <gdh> wow, sony support usb thesedays?
[05:00] <gdh> I thought they were still being firewire-only pedants
[05:00] <scythe> lol....
[05:00] <scythe> i dont think they can ignore it, its part of the specs on every laptop/desktop they sell
[05:00] <gdh> the 'cool' name having been undermined rather much by USB2 being 80Mbps faster than 'Fire' wire
[05:01] <scythe> cant wait for the firewire 800 to hit laptops soon
[05:01] <gdh> great, even more disk space wasted on family videos...
[05:01] <scythe> hehe
[05:01] <scythe> but you can get it there fast
[05:02] <gdh> now.. just need an internet2 connection to keep up... :)
[05:02] <gdh> I think it's fabulous that i2 is being used largely for warez :)
[05:02] <gdh> there's something just so elegant and wonderful about that =)
[05:03] <gdh> anyway it's 4am .. time for bed... nn...
[05:04] <scythe> sweet!! ubuntu recognizes my netmd drive
[05:42] <delltony> whats going on guys can' sleep here thought id see whats going on in kubuntu land :)
[05:45] <esac> im sure this has been asked before, how do i mount a .iso as a cdrom device ?
[05:51] <delltony> mount -o loop -t iso9660 nameofiso.iso mountpoint
[05:52] <delltony> example mount -o loop -t iso9660 isoofprogramidownloaded.iso /home/me/cdmount
[06:00] <esac> once im to the stage where it is selecting and unpacking, do i need to have my system connected to the net anymore ?
[06:03] <ricosuave17> how do i enable framebuffer plz
[06:03] <aseigo> esac: not strictly, but you will probably want to let it grab the package updates available ... though you can do that at a future point in time
[06:04] <ricosuave17> anyone?
[06:05] <delltony> anyone screwed like me at times have to use good ol ppp when traveling? if so have you had any luck getting sl-modem to install
[06:08] <delltony> i'm pretty sure ricosuave17 its in the xorg.conf file under Section Device then make sure there is an Option "UseFBDev"  "true" that was the case with warty but warty ran xf86
[06:09] <ricosuave17> ok ill try. but the wiki doesnt say anything
[06:11] <majic> we got any firestarter experts in here? My firewall is working perfectly but with the exception that google.com is being blocked and I have spent 3 hours trying to figure out why and haven't been able to find a solution. When I try to connect to google it is trying to connect back to me at ports in the 33000 range and they are being blocked.
[06:21] <ricosuave17> hey
[06:21] <ricosuave17> who gave the framebuffer info plz
[06:26] <delltony> i said it might work like that did it
[06:31] <ricosuave17> i saw my xorg.conf and i didnt see any of that
[06:32] <ricosuave17> Section "Device"
[06:32] <ricosuave17> 	Identifier	"Intel Corporation 82865G Integrated Graphics Device"
[06:32] <ricosuave17> 	Driver		"i810"
[06:32] <ricosuave17> 	BusID		"PCI:0:2:0"
[06:39] <delltony> ricosuave17, ok as i said it "might be" where you put it in there aka not sure
[06:40] <tdmg> how do I update repositories on Kynaptic?
[06:44] <delltony> not sure how to do it on kynaptic but sudo nano /etc/apt/sources.list and edit (add/remove) repositories that you want
[06:44] <delltony> then type apt-get update to update the repository
[06:45] <delltony> then apt-cache search (what your looking for) then apt-get install (name of package)
[06:45] <tdmg> yeah
[06:45] <tdmg> I'm trying to get Wine
[06:45] <tdmg> and that's what they said to do
[06:46] <delltony> its easier for me to do it in console
[06:46] <delltony> i don't use kynaptics and all that much
[06:47] <delltony> dists/hoary-backports/universe/binary-i386/wine_0.0.20050419-1~5.04ubp1_i386.deb its in backports
[06:47] <delltony> type apt-cache show wine and see if your filename matchs that
[06:49] <delltony> add this to your sources.list file then apt-get update
[06:49] <delltony> deb http://ubuntu-backports.mirrormax.net/ hoary-backports main universe multiverse restricted
[06:49] <delltony> deb http://ubuntu-backports.mirrormax.net/ hoary-extras main universe multiverse restricted
[06:54] <tdmg> ummmmmm.........
[06:54] <tdmg> how do I save the file is the console?
[06:55] <tdmg> in*
[07:02] <ricosuave17> ok i read the docs and now im worse then b4 i didnt understand anything at all
[07:32] <pax> ricosuave17: isnt trolling in #ubuntu enough for ya :D
[07:32] <ricosuave17> u should ask some people that know me
[07:58] <pow3r> Hola gente, no puedo activar dma hdparm -d1 /dev/hdb
[07:59] <pow3r> HDIO_SET_DMA failed: Operation not permitted
[08:01] <crimsun> SATA?
[08:02] <pow3r> tengo 2 sata pero esos lo toma bien
[08:02] <crimsun> in ingles, por favor?
[08:02] <pow3r> un ide un lector dvd y grabadora dvd en esto me da el error
[08:02] <pow3r> sorry
[08:03] <pow3r> hdparm -d1 /dev/hdb
[08:03] <pow3r> HDIO_SET_DMA failed: Operation not permitted
[08:04] <crimsun> is /dev/hdb SATA?
[08:04] <pow3r> no, DVD
[08:05] <crimsun> are you using sudo?
[08:05] <pow3r> yes
[08:06] <pow3r> /dev/hdc WD1200 IDE
[08:06] <pow3r> /dev/hdd DVD-RW
[08:06] <pow3r> /dev/sda SATA WD1600
[08:07] <pow3r> /dev/sdb SATA WD2500, its ok
[08:07] <pow3r> sda its ok
[08:59] <shawn_> I get this error this error http://pastebin.com/325919 when trying to compile K3B... any ideas?
[09:59] <Wizzard> hi there
[10:00] <malte> hi
[10:01] <Wizzard> I need help, how can I set up some program to start with the OS? I want mprime to run on every boot
[10:13] <ztonzy> Wizzard: mostly if you have it running while logging out or shutting down system, it usually starts when booting up into KDE
[10:13] <ztonzy> because it saves last session
[10:14] <Wizzard> yep, but I do not save my session, I want it run independently from Xwindows
[10:16] <thoreauputic> Wizzard:  man update-rc.d , or use /etc/init.d/bootmisc.sh
[10:22] <Wizzard> I just have to edit that file and set it executable?
[10:53] <nikkia> ztonzy: the kubuntu konqueror seems to crash more than others, dunno why
[11:05] <ztonzy> nikkia: hmm yes...
[11:06] <nikkia> ztonzy: its most likely some optional feature kde was built with, or without
[11:06] <ztonzy> nikkia: I have updated to 3.4.2 as well
[11:06] <nikkia> ztonzy: possibly restricted formats related
[11:07] <ztonzy> nikkia: ok...I told this in #kde and some said it might go to do with gcc or something
[11:08] <nikkia> it could be, it could be lots of things
[11:08] <ztonzy> but maybe I am rembering wrong
[11:08] <nikkia> ztonzy: when it happens, do you get the crash dialog ? and is it possible to get the crash log on a pastebin ?
[11:08] <ztonzy> it is not good advert if kubuntu is supposed to be like in forefront of KDE development-releases
[11:09] <ztonzy> nikkia: yes I do, but backtrace doesn't give much info...just some line
[11:10] <nikkia> ztonzy: my experience was, it tends to happen 'more' when browsing to a dir that contains .avi files, so i'm tempted to lean towards the meta-info fetching from them, but that wasn't the only place it crashed, it would occasionally crash loading settings:/
[11:11] <ztonzy> nikkia: crashes also when browsing the net
[11:12] <nikkia> ztonzy: that's always been 'normal' for me, and firefox crashes enough that i don't consider that unusual, sadly
[11:12] <ztonzy> heh
[11:13] <ztonzy> funny with Gnome apps when in Ubuntu (gnome) is that a dialuge asks if you want to restart the app...in KDE this isn't
[11:13] <nikkia> ztonzy: basically, i expect some crashy behaviour browsing the web, but browsing the local folders is a different story
[11:13] <ztonzy> true
[11:14] <nikkia> however, my konqueror here, doesn't crash
[11:14] <ztonzy> I was told it was crashing more opening Konqueror direct to Home folder...but now it is more than that
[11:14] <nikkia> so its not something inherant to KDE/konqueror, its something 'different' about the kubuntu release
[11:14] <ztonzy> yes
[11:15] <ztonzy> nikkia: I was close to try out SimplyMepis just that I grew tired of these crashes
[11:17] <ztonzy> and so aphohy, or how the nick is spelled...told me to try out his help instead haha
[11:44] <nikkia> morning kay
[11:45] <nikkia> kay, i found where the user autostart is executed, just after you left - its not run by ksmserver at all, but by kdesktop
[11:46] <nikkia> kay, which i believe, implies that the user autostart occurs before session recovery, since kdesktop is started by ksmserver from the system autostart, before the user session
[11:46] <kay> nikkia: ah.... thanks for digging that up nikkia
[11:47] <kay> I am trying to put that to use
[11:47] <nikkia> kay, ksmserver does honor a flag in the session stuff that says 'this was auto-started, don't save it' so you'd probably want to set that on all user-autostart items
[11:47] <nikkia> i imagine the .desktop files in the system autostart have it set, if you need to see what the flag is
[11:47] <kay> You know what annoys me most in my use of KDE now?
[11:47] <nikkia> ?
[11:47] <kay> My wife is a perfect KDE user
[11:48] <kay> The only time she is totally confused and left in the water
[11:48] <kay> is when Kontact says is may already be running when it starts
[11:48] <nikkia> ah
[11:48] <kay> That often happens right after boot with automatic login
[11:49] <kay> I am now going to hunt down the lock file and erase it for her on login
[11:50] <kay> That's why I wanted to know if it would be early enough to do it there, nikka :)
[11:50] <kay> +i
[11:50] <nikkia> kay, i see
[11:52] <kay> oh and morning too :)
[11:53] <nikkia> i wish i knew why beep's mp4 plugin can *sometimes* read the tags, but sometimes not
[11:54] <malte> http://expressen.se/index.jsp?a=412252 omg
[11:54] <malte> ops
[11:54] <malte> wrong channel, nevermind that :)
[11:54] <nikkia> kay, actually, the 'auto-started' tag appears to be set by ksmserver/kdestop and thus those apps autostarted don't get saved with the session
[11:56] <kay> Cool, that thing is clever
[11:56] <EvanMcCone> somebody know as configure 5.1 in kmix? :D
[11:56] <kay> But one thing bad about KDE sessions is that you cannot save them when you want
[11:56] <nikkia> kay, yeah, you can
[11:56] <kay> Really?
[11:57] <nikkia> kay, if you disable auto-session saving, it adds a menu item to save the session
[11:57] <kay> Oh... uhm, have to look
[11:57] <nikkia> kay, it appears just above 'lock session' in the kde menu, iirc
[11:58] <nikkia> yep, just set it to 'restore manually saved session' and 'save session' appeared :)
[11:58] <kay> But will it still save my session on logout automatically?
[11:58] <yahalom> how do i make this command permanent  sudo hdparm -d1 /dev/dvd ?
[11:58] <nikkia> no
[11:59] <nikkia> you have to save the session manually once you disable auto-session-saving
[11:59] <kay> The thing is, sometimes, horror, my system/KDE crashes after one week of using it
[11:59] <nikkia> kay, i've never been able to decide which i prefer most, leaving auto-save on, but maintaining the 'exclude these apps' list, or using manual session saves
[11:59] <kay> I have a tendency to not shutdown at work
[12:00] <kay> And keep my TODO list by which windows are still open and where on what desktop
[12:00] <nikkia> kay, now i know about the autostart folder stuff, i may even consider dumping the sessions altogether, and just setting up my base session in autostart
[12:00] <kay> When I had a web page open, a file open, something, it really needs to open again
[12:01] <kay> or else I loose information/time
[12:01] <nikkia> kay, you could script it...
[12:01] <kay> With DCOP to the ksmserver ?
[12:01] <nikkia> kay, have a crontab that sends a dcop to ksmserver to save, every hour
[12:01] <kay> That would be perfect, indeed
[12:02] <kay> You know how I love autocomplete on Debian's
[12:02] <nikkia> 'dcop ksmserver ksmserver saveCurrentSession' should do it
[12:02] <yahalom> anybody?
[12:02] <kay> dcop is perfectly guiding me to that
[12:03] <pakos> yahalom: /etc/hdparm.conf
[12:03] <kay> with autocomplete... that's hard to be beaten feature.
[12:03] <yahalom> pakos: i added it but it doesnt work :(
[12:03] <kay> nikkia: Thank for you the hint, that will make me much more effective :)
[12:03] <pakos> yahalom: how did you do it?
[12:04] <yahalom> pakos:  http://pastebin.com/325960
[12:04] <yahalom> pakos: take a look plz
[12:04] <nikkia> yahalom: don't use /dev/dvd in hdparm.conf
[12:04] <yahalom> nikkia: what then?
[12:04] <nikkia> yahalom: the udev scripts to create the symlinks probably hasn't run at the time hdparm is run at boot
[12:05] <nikkia> yahalom: use the actual device node, ie the file that /dev/dvd is symlinked to
[12:05] <pakos> correct
[12:05] <yahalom> nikkia: where do i see that?
[12:05] <nikkia> it'll be /dev/hdc or /dev/hdd or something, just ls -l /dev/dvd and it'll say
[12:06] <yahalom> where do i see what device /dev/dvd is?
[12:06] <kay> And watch out, enabling DMA on the same channel where a harddisk is
[12:06] <nikkia> yahalom: like this:
[12:06] <nikkia> nikki@nikki:~$ ls -l /dev/dvd
[12:06] <nikkia> lrwxrwxrwx  1 root root 3 2005-07-30 17:22 /dev/dvd -> hdc
[12:06] <kay> If you can, separate the two physically
[12:06] <nikkia> kay, umm, HDDs should get DMA enabled by default, anyway
[12:06] <yahalom> nikkia: ok its hda
[12:06] <nikkia> kay, its only optical drives that aren't DMA'ed by default on [k] ubuntu
[12:06] <kay> If they do not, they might have a reason
[12:07] <pakos> yahalom: are you sure, thath your dvd is actually hda?
[12:07] <kay> hda.... where is your root on?
[12:07] <kay> type mount
[12:07] <nikkia> pakos: its not inconceivable.... SATA for disks, first PATA channel for optical...
[12:07] <yahalom> /dev/hda {
[12:07] <yahalom>          dma=on
[12:07] <yahalom> }
[12:07] <yahalom> nikkia: like this: ?
[12:07] <yahalom> sorry for the lenght
[12:08] <kay> Well, no deal.... but it worries me that you may trouble your system
[12:08] <pakos> nikkia: yeah, right :)
[12:08] <nikkia> yahalom: yes, that'd be right if hda is your dvd
[12:08] <kay> I once corrupted a system, because the DMA was not working due to incorrect jumpering
[12:08] <yahalom> kay:  same here
[12:09] <yahalom> nikkia: do i now it should turn on everytime i reboot? obviously it should be uncommented right?
[12:09] <kay> If you can, open the box, and connect the DVD drive to a separate channel.
[12:09] <nikkia> yahalom: yes, uncommented, the parameters in hdparm.conf are set at boot time, just before hotplug is loaded, iirc
[12:09] <nikkia> kay, if its on hda, i suspect it already is
[12:09] <nikkia> kay, most PCs come with the optical drive on its own channel anyway
[12:10] <kay> depends on what is hdb :p
[12:10] <yahalom> nikkia can u check out my hdparm and see if it makes sense?
[12:10] <nikkia> kay, not his root, that's for certain...
[12:10] <kay> why?
[12:10] <nikkia> kay, as windows, which the machine came with most likely, won't boot from a slave
[12:10] <kay> Oh... didn't know that
[12:10] <yahalom> nikkia: http://pastebin.com/325966
[12:10] <kay> I guess, I used the swap feature of my BIOS :)
[12:11] <kay> For switching between two drives
[12:11] <yahalom> nikkia: can u check it out?
[12:11] <nikkia> yahalom: looks ok to me
[12:11] <yahalom> nikkia: ok let me try
[12:11] <yahalom> thanx
[12:11] <nikkia> yahalom: do not enable the mult_sect stuff on dvds, they don't seem to like it :)
[12:12] <nikkia> kay, basically, if the optical drive is on /dev/hda, i'd wager that the hdds aren't PATA
[12:12] <kay> ah... true
[12:12] <nikkia> primary master is too bizarre a location for optical drives for anything but a SATA/PATA setup
[12:12] <nikkia> (or a badly done 'built it myself' system)
[12:13] <nikkia> (or a well dont 'built it myself system' :)
[12:13] <kay> I avoided SATA at the time, I have the controller, but I was too uncertain it would boot into Linux
[12:13] <kay> Now that works I guess
[12:13] <nikkia> my promise card doesn't support boot-from-cd so my optical drives all sit on the motherboard IDE :)
[12:14] <nikkia> (not /dev/hda tho, that has a HDD sat on it 'in case of emergency with the promise controller' :)
[12:14] <kay> I have that cheap AsRock K8S8 or something
[12:14] <kay> Everything on board for like 50 USD... that was good, but they discontinued it
[12:15] <nikkia> kay, i'm constantly surprised that people buy a product made by a company whose name sounds like 'ass rock' :)
[12:15] <kay> Well, there is somehow ASUS behind it, that is why I did
[12:15] <kay> The motherboard even has that ASUS color, just not the prize tag :p
[12:15] <nikkia> kay, i thought asus and asrock were totally unconnected other than asrock riding on their name
[12:15] <buz> asrock is asus el cheapo line
[12:16] <kay> I believe they don't have their own designs
[12:16] <buz> i think its their own designs
[12:16] <buz> those dual cpu things are utterly weird
[12:16] <kay> They buy in from ASUS and make it cheaper
[12:16] <kay> (when they can)
[12:16] <kay> Yeah, some things are totally trash.
[12:16] <buz> mhh i generally buy asus these days
[12:16] <buz> not too expensive either
[12:16] <buz> and the stuff works
[12:17] <kay> I read boards before I buy
[12:17] <nikkia> buz, i was put off asus once, but not by their quality
[12:17] <kay> And that one got good marks and tests and so I went for it
[12:17] <nikkia> it was their reaction to the i820 debacle that annoyed me
[12:17] <kay> What was that again?
[12:17] <nikkia> but after having 2 badly designed gigabyte boards, i came running back to asus :)
[12:17] <buz> nikkia: yeah once got one with fucked up layout
[12:18] <nikkia> kay, the i820 was conceptually flawed...
[12:18] <buz> definitely not atx spec
[12:18] <kay> oh, bad
[12:18] <nikkia> kay, intel recalled all the boards, and offered replacements, asus said 'F. U. you bought it, live with it'
[12:18] <kay> Well, there is a difference between Intel and ASUS
[12:18] <nikkia> kay, every other i820 integrator recalled/replaced
[12:18] <nikkia> only asus said 'tough!'
[12:18] <nikkia> the i820's memory controller corrupted data to/from RAM
[12:19] <kay> Intel in the first place is much bigger and willing to take the hit, whereas ASUS had to buy from Intel to sell it to you
[12:19] <buz> asus could have sued intel for damages
[12:19] <nikkia> kay, as i said, everyone else using i820 recalled and replaced
[12:19] <kay> That's why I buy only cheap working stuff :p
[12:19] <nikkia> and i believe intel had a OEM policy to offer replacement boards
[12:19] <kay> If you invest 200 USD, it hurts to change your board
[12:20] <kay> If you invested 50 USD, you can try 4 more.
[12:20] <nikkia> kay, thats why i gave up paying for on-board SCSI
[12:20] <kay> And I don't need too much performance these days
[12:20] <nikkia> it always worked fine, but each time i did an upgrade, $300-400 for the motherboard was too bad
[12:20] <kay> Well, I left that SCSI train long ago, when IDE turned out to be so compelling cheaper
[12:21] <kay> Exactly...
[12:21] <nikkia> i gave up SCSI when it became painfully apparent that the SCSI CDROM market was dead
[12:21] <kay> Also, I look at what integrators do
[12:21] <nikkia> ie, when the fastest IDE CD burner was 40x, and the fastest SCSI CD burner was 8x :)
[12:22] <kay> Here in Germany we have quite a few companies that sell PCs and one kind of it, self constructed
[12:22] <kay> Some of them cheap and quality
[12:22] <nikkia> (oh, and yamaha had a 20x SCSi drive, but it was just a IDE drive with a SCSI/IDE bridge and $100 extra on the price :)
[12:23] <kay> nikkia: And the drives started to be having IDE to SCSI adapters that made it slower
[12:23] <kay> nikkia: At least the ones you could buy, and they were slower too
[12:23] <kay> That hard disk drives I meant
[12:23] <kay> I bought my AMD64 from such an integrator.
[12:23] <nikkia> kay, it wasn't the bridge that slowed them down, it was the fact that the manufacturers realised they could dump 6month old IDE drives on the SCSI crowd, with a bridge and still charge more than the new IDE drives
[12:24] <kay> I needed not buy Windows, not even got a floppy drive, I didn't want, no optical drive I already had.... and stuff
[12:25] <kay> No mouse, no keyboard, etc.
[12:26] <kay> Just the things I wanted, and I knew that their choice of mainboard, the 50 USD one, was actually good :)
[12:29] <EvanMcCone> what kernel use kubuntu 5.04 ?
[12:29] <EvanMcCone> 2.6...?
[12:29] <buz> .10
[12:30] <EvanMcCone> oks
[12:30] <EvanMcCone> thx buz
[12:41] <paines> hi
[12:46] <buz> https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=99654 mhh still happens for me.
[12:46] <buz> anyone got a trunk build of akregator?
[12:56] <EvanMcCone> config-<IP_ADDRESS>-3-386 of ubuntu and the kubuntu is config-2.6.10... ?
[12:57] <P3L|C4N0> <IP_ADDRESS> = Warty | 2.6.10... Hoary
[12:58] <EvanMcCone> what?
[12:59] <EvanMcCone> is for kernel compilation
[01:01] <buz> weird
[01:01] <buz> i got knewsticker installed but it wont show up in the add applet dialog of the kicker
[01:01] <buz> ah i must be bling
[01:01] <EvanMcCone> :/
[01:01] <EvanMcCone> P3L|C4N0:  of kubuntu 5.04 config-2.6.... ?
[01:04] <EvanMcCone> P3L|C4N0:  of kubuntu 5.04 config-2.6.10-5-386 :D
[01:05] <P3L|C4N0> EvanMcCone, $ uname -a
[01:08] <EvanMcCone> thx :)
[01:22] <buz> is there something like beagle or spotlight for kde?
[01:23] <apokryphos> buz: kat
[01:23] <buz> which i can get where?
[01:24] <apokryphos> kde-apps
[01:26] <buz> mhh lets give it a shot if i can get it to compile that is
[01:26] <buz> sheesh
[01:26] <buz> i need about 200mb of dev stuff
[01:27] <apokryphos> buz: there's an ubuntu .deb there
[01:27] <buz> mhh need to dig further then
[01:27] <apokryphos> buz: it's listed right there, as a download
[01:27] <buz> cool
[01:27] <buz> was looking at the wrong page i guess
[01:27] <buz> its actually right at the top ;)
[01:29] <buz> people who supply ubuntu debs must be good ;)
[01:31] <buz> dpkg: error processing //home/buz/Desktop/kat_0.6.0-0ubuntu1_i386.deb (--install):
[01:31] <buz>  corrupted filesystem tarfile - corrupted package archive: Success
[01:31] <buz> dpkg-deb: subprocess paste killed by signal (Broken pipe
[01:31] <buz> doesnt work
[01:35] <apokryphos> buz: I get the error too; bad packaging, perhaps. I can send you the 0.54 version, which I had and works
[01:36] <buz> maybe i'll build it
[01:36] <buz> will go grab something to eat now
[01:36] <apokryphos> buz: no point, if you'll need to get all those extra things... major hassle.
[01:37] <apokryphos> http://giannaros.org/kat_0.5.4-0ubuntu0.1_i386.deb -- if you want it.
[01:42] <thijs> hi all
[01:55] <Octane> i know this is odd but can someone here tell me what items they have in their Development menu in the KDE menu
[01:57] <Fraeon> How about if I told you that I don't have a development menu?
[01:57] <Octane> Fraeon: i would believe you!!!
[01:58] <Octane> so you dont have the kdewebdev package installed?
[01:59] <ztonzy> hmm
[01:59] <comp7> hi all
[01:59] <ztonzy> OSD placement is gone in Konversation, I can't set it anymore...where have it dissapeard ?
[02:00] <ztonzy> it does popup when somone's typing my nick...but I can't set the location anymore :-\
[02:01] <ztonzy> this weird, another Kubuntu issue ?
[02:02] <lindsay> hello
[02:03] <comp7> hi lindsay
[02:03] <lindsay> i'm trying to access my ntfs media through media:/
[02:03] <lindsay> in KDE
[02:03] <lindsay> however
[02:03] <lindsay> it wont let my
[02:03] <lindsay> because im not SU
[02:03] <lindsay> im assuming
[02:03] <lindsay> coz if I go kdesu it works
[02:03] <lindsay> is there a way to allow it to work?
[02:03] <lindsay> without becoming SU?
[02:23] <evanmccone> hi
[02:23] <evanmccone> how i can cancel a compilation and remove?
[02:40] <bizzare> helow..i need help..i want to configure adsl in kubuntu..how?
[02:47] <wellso> hi ppl
[02:47] <pakos> bizzare: install ppoe
[02:47] <pakos> bizzare: sorry, pppoe
[02:47] <wellso> on my log off dialog im missing options to shutdown/restart/end session etc. Any idea how i get them back
[02:49] <pakos> wellso: using kdm?
[02:50] <bizzare> tnx..it works with pppoeconfig ;)
[02:50] <wellso> yeah, I apt-get kubuntu-desktop
[02:52] <buz> apokryphos: i installed kat 0.5.4
[02:52] <buz> seems to work
[02:52] <bizzare> i would like to ask sometinhg more...hm...when i try to install lynx i write apt-get install lynx..but the apt-get can't find the package
[02:53] <bizzare> where's the problem
[02:53] <pakos> wellso: in control center, system administration / login manager / shutdown are the settings ok?
[02:54] <pakos> buz: does kat have online update (watching for modified files), or should run a cron job to update the database?
[02:54] <buz> i think you need a kernel patch for the watching
[02:54] <buz> not entirely sure though
[02:54] <buz> only just installed it
[02:55] <pakos> dnotify, i suppose
[02:55] <buz> it prefers inotify i think
[02:55] <wellso> brb pakos
[02:55] <buz> theres something about it on the site
[02:55] <pakos> buz: ok, thanks!
[02:57] <Fraeon> And remember, the best reason not to become a vegetarian is because Hitler was one.
[02:57] <Fraeon> What is more, the Greenpeace has-beens neglect the scientific evidence that we NEED meat to survive. Here's proof: In Adventure Island II, you can eat fruit to gain back one bar of health, but only one bar. On the other hand, if you find the roast beef, it will restore all of your health, even if you're down to one bar. This matter proves that meat is necessary for survival, especially red meat.
[02:58] <buz> lets have kat scan my homedir ;)
[02:59] <Fraeon> If you still don't believe me and think vegetables are better, then ask yourself what takes away your health in Adventure Island--that's right, the freakin' EGGPLANT!
[03:00] <wellso> hi again ppl
[03:00] <wellso> pakos: cant see anything wrong with the options
[03:08] <buz> i cant help, but i still think it looks win3.1 like http://www.gnome.org/~davyd/gnome-2-12/
[03:15] <Alex[RM-UK] > Hey guys,
[03:16] <wellso> hi
[03:16] <wellso> hows things
[03:16] <Alex[RM-UK] > not to bad really you?
[03:17] <Alex[RM-UK] > I heard about the new KDE 3.4.2 and I saw on Kubuntus site to add the extra download sites in,
[03:17] <Alex[RM-UK] > but what files do I download via Kynaptic to get 3.4.2 ?
[03:19] <Alex[RM-UK] > anyone?
[03:19] <Fraeon> sudo apt-get install kde*
[03:19] <Alex[RM-UK] > with the *
[03:19] <Alex[RM-UK] > ?
[03:19] <Fraeon> Ok, maybe that isn't quite wise.
[03:19] <Alex[RM-UK] > why?
[03:21] <pakos> Alex[RM-UK] : install? none. you should only do an update & upgrade
[03:21] <Fraeon> That will install every package that starts with "kde"
[03:21] <Alex[RM-UK] > ahh,
[03:21] <pakos> Alex[RM-UK] : you should not install kde*, because it installs everything :)
[03:21] <Alex[RM-UK] > yeh I mean update & upgrade, i've been using windows a bit too much and keep saying install lol
[03:22] <Alex[RM-UK] > shall I just go into Kynaptic, and right click on every kde package installed and go Update?
[03:22] <pakos> Alex[RM-UK] : simply add the new source line to the sources.list, and run an 'aptitude update; aptitude dist-upgrade'
[03:23] <Alex[RM-UK] > sudo? or just aptitude update; aptitude dist-upgrade
[03:23] <pakos> Alex[RM-UK] : yes, with sudo
[03:23] <Alex[RM-UK] > ok,
[03:23] <pakos> Alex[RM-UK] : you can use Kynaptic too, but i prefer the command line for such tasks :)
[03:23] <Alex[RM-UK] > shall try it in a min, copying 5 gigs of mp3s over to my linux box so it's a bit slow
[03:24] <Alex[RM-UK] > suppose so, I tend to use a GUI more as i've only been using linux for 2 months :)
[03:24] <wellso> http://dtwp.net/logout.jpg anyone know how to get around this?
[03:25] <Alex[RM-UK] > is there any other file browser apart from Konqueror that works on KDE
[03:25] <Alex[RM-UK] > I really don't like Konqueror much,
[03:25] <buz> all of them should work
[03:25] <buz> but konqi is the best imho
[03:25] <Alex[RM-UK] > I don't know of any,
[03:25] <buz> gnome's nautilus is crap
[03:25] <wellso> aye
[03:25] <buz> and others i currently dont remember
[03:25] <wellso> konq kicks its ass
[03:26] <pakos> Alex[RM-UK] : in kynaptic, click simply on 'refresh' and then on 'upgrade all packages'
[03:26] <buz> midnight commander
[03:26] <pakos> Alex[RM-UK] : krusader?
[03:26] <Alex[RM-UK] > I will have a look at that,
[03:26] <Alex[RM-UK] > for the Kynaptic, that will update every package installed, including KDE, yes?
[03:26] <wellso> yeah MC is the beast for konq
[03:26] <buz> mh krusader is like GUI MC
[03:26] <Alex[RM-UK] > nar all music finidhed, lets try these updates
[03:26] <buz> i never quite liked that split pane stuff though
[03:27] <pakos> Alex[RM-UK] : yes, but because the newly added source has only kde-related packages, only kde will be upgraded
[03:27] <wellso> i like having the terminal at the bottom
[03:27] <Alex[RM-UK] > ahh, cool
[03:27] <wellso> great for java compiling
[03:27] <Alex[RM-UK] > ok, doing updates via Konsole now,
[03:27] <Alex[RM-UK] > then I have to restart pc I assume?
[03:27] <Alex[RM-UK] > ok, it's done
[03:27] <Alex[RM-UK] > hum, that quick?
[03:28] <pakos> Alex[RM-UK] : logout-login is enough
[03:28] <Alex[RM-UK] > ahh,
[03:28] <Alex[RM-UK] > it can't of done it that quick surley,
[03:28] <pakos> Alex[RM-UK] : did you add the new source to the sources.list file?
[03:28] <Alex[RM-UK] > yes, I added all of them it said possible
[03:28] <Alex[RM-UK] > E: /home/alex/.aptitude/config - Unable to open %s for writing (13 Permission denied)
[03:28] <Alex[RM-UK] > E: Could not open lock file /var/lib/dpkg/lock - open (13 Permission denied)
[03:28] <Alex[RM-UK] > E: Unable to lock the administration directory (/var/lib/dpkg/), are you root?
[03:29] <Alex[RM-UK] > I did sudo
[03:29] <wellso> http://dtwp.net/logout.jpg anyone know how to restore this with Shutdown/Restart?
[03:29] <wellso> close synaptic/kynaptic
[03:29] <Alex[RM-UK] > it's not open,
[03:29] <Alex[RM-UK] > ahh, it's done this before
[03:29] <pakos> wellso: hmm, if the control center settings allow the shutdown / restart for all users, then i have no ideas left :-/
[03:30] <Alex[RM-UK] > i'll try it the Kynaptic way,
[03:30] <paines> wellso: kcontrol->kde components->session manager
[03:30] <paines> wellso: if you mean to have options like shutown, end current session etc...
[03:31] <Alex[RM-UK] > nar, downloading update packages now,
[03:31] <wellso> still no joy matey
[03:31] <Alex[RM-UK] > going to get a Brew, will be back in a mo.
[03:31] <nikkia> wellso, are you using KDM ?
[03:32] <nikkia> if you switched to gdm, the KDE session manager cannot offer shutdown/reboot
[03:32] <insanekane> hello nikkia
[03:32] <wellso> i installed Hoary with Gnome, and then apt-get kubuntu-desktop
[03:32] <nikkia> wellso, so you're probably still using GDM as your login manager
[03:32] <nikkia> you'll want to dpkg-reconfigure gdm and select kdm :)
[03:33] <wellso> excellent
[03:33] <nikkia> and hope it works :P
[03:33] <wellso> i'll restart X and try
[03:33] <wellso> if all goes well, I'll be back :)
[03:35] <nikkia> afternoon insanekane
[03:36] <insanekane> nikkia: and that is ?
[03:36] <insanekane> oh building :)
[03:36] <nikkia> memory optimisation
[03:36] <insanekane> aha
[03:36] <insanekane> hehe :)
[03:36] <nikkia> trying to squeeze this java program into using less than 360MB of memory
[03:37] <insanekane> amazing ... i havent made a program that purposefully requires that much memory :)
[03:37] <insanekane> though ive worked with 128 byte uCs :)
[03:38] <wellso> thankyou nikkia
[03:38] <wellso> worked a treat
[03:38] <nikkia> insanekane: you obviously haven't had to deal with 25MB of png files that get uncompressed to 32bit RGB textures at load time, and 100+MB of xvid files that have to be loaded into ram
[03:38] <insanekane> hehe, no i havent :)
[03:39] <Alex[RM-UK] > HEy im back,
[03:40] <Alex[RM-UK] > I got a question, I just copied all my music from my windows hard drive, to my Linux one. But is there any point? I mean, can I just make XMMS play all my music files from the Windows hard drive
[03:40] <Alex[RM-UK] > or does it have to be on my local linux hard drive?
[03:40] <wellso> yeah if you set up the shares on your windows box
[03:40] <wellso> or are you dual booting
[03:40] <Alex[RM-UK] > Windos box and Linux box are the same :)
[03:40] <Alex[RM-UK] > sort of, with 2 hard drives
[03:40] <Alex[RM-UK] > Linux is master, windows is slave
[03:41] <wellso> just a case of mounting your windows partition/drive and accessing the files
[03:41] <wellso> FAT can read/write NTFS read only
[03:41] <Alex[RM-UK] > yeh I can do that fine, so it will work fine? xmms wont try and wirte any fiels to NTFS will it?
[03:41] <wellso> no m8
[03:41] <wellso> dont see why it would anyway
[03:42] <wellso> unless you are changing ID3 tags etc.
[03:42] <Alex[RM-UK] > good :P that will save me some space on my linux hard drive then
[03:42] <Alex[RM-UK] > nah I wont be doing that
[03:42] <wellso> cool
[03:43] <Alex[RM-UK] > Nar, it works fine
[03:44] <moparfan90_> whats a good dektop manager
[03:44] <Bubbling_Zombie> depends on your personal taste.
[03:44] <moparfan90_> other then kde.. something like openbox or blackbox bu better
[03:44] <moparfan90_> but*
[03:44] <Bubbling_Zombie> http://xwinman.org/
[03:44] <Bubbling_Zombie> you might want to try fluxbox
[03:45] <moparfan90_> i have that. i cant figure out how to confire it
[03:45] <Alex[RM-UK] > Hum, I've never been able to get Surround sound on ANY ofthe linux distros I have tried
[03:45] <Bubbling_Zombie> check out the .fluxbox directory in your home
[03:46] <Alex[RM-UK] > is it possible to get surround sound in Kubuntu, with a Creative sound blaster Liev! 5.1 sound card?
[03:47] <nikkia> alex, yes, but the trick is to tell the video player to use a different alsa device
[03:48] <Alex[RM-UK] > Video? I be using XMMS EE eeeee
[03:48] <nikkia> alex, if your surround is connected to digital output, so you want spdif, then you'll see an iec* named channel in the alsamixer, you can tell the video player to output spdif to that
[03:48] <nikkia> alex, why would you want surround sound on stereo audio? that's silly
[03:48] <Alex[RM-UK] > I don't understand
[03:49] <Alex[RM-UK] > In Windows, Creative comes with a nice little settings box, and if I ever ticked Digital Output Only sound would turn off, so I never had it on
[03:49] <Bubbling_Zombie> Alex[RM-UK]  i don't have any experience with the card. But check your sound options in the configuration screen
[03:50] <Bubbling_Zombie> (control center i mean)
[03:50] <nikkia> alex, well, you can get surround a number of ways with linux, the problem is, you need a surround sound source to play back, music in xmms is going to be stereo, so that won't be surround :)
[03:50] <Alex[RM-UK] > Oh, how come XMMS is stereo?
[03:51] <nikkia> videos you have a couple of choices, you can either tell the video player to decode ac3 to seperate alsa channels, or you can output the ac3 unchanged to spdif if your speakers are connected digitally
[03:51] <nikkia> alex, because music is stereo ?
[03:51] <Alex[RM-UK] > then how did I get sourround sound with msuic, in Winamp and Media player...any other application that would play any msuic files
[03:52] <nikkia> because creative use a gimmicky setting that ruins the quality of your music in the name of 'making it surround'
[03:52] <Alex[RM-UK] > I dont understand what you mean 'connected digitaly'
[03:52] <Alex[RM-UK] > so it's not true sourrund sound in windows?
[03:52] <nikkia> for stereo music? no, of course not
[03:52] <nikkia> its just echo applied to the rear speakers
[03:53] <Alex[RM-UK] > so all that time in Windows I had an echo as surround sound?! my god
[03:53] <gdh> Alex[RM-UK] : Come on , think about it - if the source is only 2 channels.... :)
[03:53] <nikkia> alex, if you're playing games or videos that are actually capable of surround, you would have had surround, but not from music
[03:54] <gdh> it's not like music CDs are encoded with Dolby Pro-logic ... :)
[03:54] <Alex[RM-UK] > gdh, what do you mean source is only 2 channels?
[03:54] <Alex[RM-UK] > i'm totaly confused now
[03:54] <gdh> Alex[RM-UK] : the music mp3s you were playing are stereo.. 2 channels.. the left speaker + the right speaker.
[03:54] <thoreauputic> Alex[RM-UK] : stereo recording == 2 channels
[03:54] <gdh> if you have 2 channels, how can you have 'real 'surround in 5 or more speakers?
[03:55] <Alex[RM-UK] > hum, yeh I see your point now
[03:55] <nikkia> gdh, there are some surround encoded music, but its usually DTS, and not very common, and someone with DTS cds would know a bit more about what they're doing (and not be playing them with winamp)
[03:55] <Aapzak> goodmorning
[03:55] <Aapzak> :)
[03:55] <nikkia> and besides, playing back DTS music without knowing what you're doing results in VERY loud noise :P
[03:55] <Alex[RM-UK] > so, back to the orgional question - How do I get surround sound?
[03:56] <gdh> Alex[RM-UK] : By providing the card with surround data - typically playing a DVD movie.
[03:56] <nikkia> alex, you need something capable of generating surround output, xine for example, then you tell it either one of two things, to decode AC3 and send the output streams to different alsa channels, or you send the whole thing unencoded to the digital output of the card
[03:56] <Alex[RM-UK] > I mean for my MP3's
[03:56] <nikkia> alex, mp3s are NOT in surround
[03:56] <Alex[RM-UK] > I know, I know
[03:56] <wellso> :)
[03:57] <thoreauputic> Alex[RM-UK] : hello! Earth to Alex[RM-UK]  ...
[03:57] <gdh> :) I don't think Linux supports those crap 'DSP' effects
[03:57] <gdh> so, the answer is "You don't"
[03:57] <gdh> easy :)
[03:57] <Alex[RM-UK] > thoreauputic, Hi!
[03:57] <thoreauputic> *sigh*
[03:57] <Alex[RM-UK] > so, I download xine, and it should give me "echoey" surround sound?
[03:58] <nikkia> alex, no
[03:58] <nikkia> alex, thank god
[03:58] <nikkia> echoey surround == crap
[03:58] <nikkia> gdh, btw, you can in theory accomplish it with a very nasty jack setup :P
[03:58] <Alex[RM-UK] > so I cant get surround sound then,
[03:59] <nikkia> gdh, you use beep or xmms talking to jack, then create a duplicate output mapping from xmms to an echo plugin -> rear speakers :)
[03:59] <gdh> nikkia: Hm, in that case I think I would rather not know jack
[03:59] <nikkia> gdh, its not something anyone would want to do, of course :)
[03:59] <wellso> my sound is distorted in ubuntu unless I take the PCM value down on my sound card
[04:00] <wellso> anyone know a work around for this
[04:00] <Alex[RM-UK] > so I gotta be stuck with this echoey stero sound for when ever im on linux :(
[04:00] <nikkia> wellso, yes, don't turn it up to 100%
[04:00] <wellso> lol
[04:00] <wellso> could i re-calibrate it somehow?
[04:00] <nikkia> wellso, no, its more card manufacturer bull
[04:00] <wellso> thought so
[04:01] <nikkia> wellso, they spec the output volume controls higher than their windows drivers allow
[04:01] <nikkia> so 100% in windows in reality is more like 80%
[04:01] <wellso> yeah, that sounds right
[04:01] <wellso> nasty distortion at 100%
[04:02] <wellso> my B&W's sound like they gonna explode
[04:02] <Alex[RM-UK] > yeh, my speakers did a really loud high pitch noise when I did that!!!!
[04:02] <Alex[RM-UK] > scared the crap out of me when I put my msuic on
[04:02] <Alex[RM-UK] > i'd still like surround sound though,
[04:02] <Alex[RM-UK] > even if it is the echoey one like Windows :)
[04:03] <nikkia> alex, you're free to modify xmms to do so, everyone else that actually cares about their music quality will stick with what we have
[04:03] <Aapzak> do you guys use the konqueror webbrowser?
[04:03] <Bubbling_Zombie> sometimes
[04:03] <wellso> i use firefox tbh
[04:04] <Aapzak> it feels to completely incompatible with almost everything
[04:04] <Bubbling_Zombie> dont have a problem with it
[04:04] <Aapzak> form buttons that don't work, no javascript,
[04:04] <gdh> Aapzak: You mean it makes you realise how many webdesigners have no clue? :)
[04:04] <Aapzak> :)
[04:04] <Alex[RM-UK] > nikkia: I really hate this echoey sound that I have at the mo, and tbh I prefer what I had in windows. so is there ANY way I can get it like that? so it uses all 5, well 6 spakers?
[04:04] <wellso> lol, they all design for IE
[04:04] <Aapzak> might be gdh , but it's anoying
[04:05] <Aapzak> really anoying, where firefox still manages in most cases, konqueror does not have a clue what to do
[04:06] <Aapzak> are there any tweaks I should perform to make konq better, flash plugin for instance?
[04:07] <Aapzak> I love KDE and all the KDE apps, but konqueror and Kopete let me down too often
[04:07] <Bubbling_Zombie> do you have flash for firefox installed?
[04:08] <Alex[RM-UK] > which is better in your opinion, gMSN or Kopete?
[04:08] <Alex[RM-UK] > amsn*
[04:09] <Aapzak> amsn is much better
[04:10] <jpatrick> I've never tried amsn..
[04:10] <Aapzak> kopete is broken in my opinion
[04:10] <Aapzak> not useable
[04:10] <Alex[RM-UK] > just imagine if NO ONE competed against each other for better apps and just combined forces, the programs would be FAR better
[04:11] <Aapzak> it does not detects connection loss, you can be offline for hours without knowing
[04:11] <gdh> hahaha :)
[04:11] <Bubbling_Zombie> no, that'd make them lazy
[04:11] <gdh> Why can't we all just get along!? ;)
[04:11] <Aapzak> lets all use only MS products and see where we end up
[04:11] <Alex[RM-UK] > my dream OS - Linux back end, able to run ALL Windows apps..well any OS app. SURROUND SOUND ^^ and a nice GUI which is easy to use
[04:12] <Aapzak> sounds like MacOSX
[04:12] <Alex[RM-UK] > does it?
[04:12] <Alex[RM-UK] > never used macosx. can that run windows progs?
[04:12] <wellso> the macs with intel arch. will be interesting
[04:12] <Aapzak> they will
[04:12] <Alex[RM-UK] > first time macs have goen with intel isn't it?
[04:12] <Aapzak> macos is brilliant
[04:12] <nikkia> alex, as i've said, you can get surround sound with linux, but only real surround sound, so stop trolling
[04:12] <jpatrick> Mac can run MS Office and Photosho
[04:12] <wellso> yes m8
[04:12] <jpatrick> Photoshop*
[04:13] <Alex[RM-UK] > 3D Studio max?
[04:13] <wellso> macs are the king for graphics design
[04:13] <Bubbling_Zombie> linux + windows games (100% native) <- my dream os
[04:13] <Aapzak> BSD-like backend, very sweet frontend
[04:13] <Alex[RM-UK] > nikkia, sorry I just liked the surround sound I had
[04:13] <jpatrick> be happy
[04:13] <Alex[RM-UK] > and smile
[04:13] <jpatrick> I have no sound
[04:13] <wellso> i cant wait to see what ubuntu develops into in a few years
[04:14] <Alex[RM-UK] > Ubuntu I love, I tried many other Linux distros and ubuntu just works
[04:14] <wellso> (k)ubuntu is my choice too, hardware support is fantastic
[04:14] <Aapzak> gentoo is the best ;)
[04:15] <wellso> i never tried it mate
[04:15] <Alex[RM-UK] > Hum, is there a MSN type progam for MacOSX, and does Firefox and Thunderbird work on it?
[04:15] <Bubbling_Zombie> gentoo is a waste of time
[04:15] <jpatrick> Adium
[04:15] <Aapzak> Alex[RM-UK] : yes yes yes
[04:15] <gdh> Bubbling_Zombie: Yes, several hours at a time :)
[04:15] <jpatrick> sort of
[04:15] <wellso> the compiling sounds a ball-ache
[04:15] <Aapzak> it makes the system flexible
[04:15] <Aapzak> it takes some time, true,
[04:15] <Bubbling_Zombie> my system is just as flexible as a gentoo system.
[04:15] <Alex[RM-UK] > My god, I think I may wack a 3rd hard drive in my pc and try that. I do loads of graphics work you see, and I want a OS that doesn't crash and is great for graphic work (mac)
[04:15] <Bubbling_Zombie> and besides
[04:15] <Bubbling_Zombie> apt-build for the win
[04:16] <wellso> i understand how compiling for your specific system is benificial
[04:16] <Aapzak> it might be, I'm not familiar with Kubuntu
[04:16] <wellso> how good is yum/emerge compared to apt?
[04:16] <Aapzak> I like apt better
[04:16] <wellso> i never used the alternatives
[04:16] <wellso> i like apt
[04:16] <Alex[RM-UK] > haha, I just rememberd Suse YAST. I really didn't like that program, yuck
[04:16] <Aapzak> the search function is superior for instance
[04:16] <wellso> simple and too-the-point
[04:17] <Aapzak> yes, apt is nice, portage has some advantages too
[04:17] <nikkia> wellso, yum is terrible
[04:17] <Alex[RM-UK] > I liked Vector Linux's aplication system,
[04:17] <Alex[RM-UK] > forgot what it was called,
[04:18] <wellso> anyone here run any ubuntu workstations/servers in a commercial enviroment?
[04:18] <Aapzak> nicest thing about gentoo is not the optimalistations, but the make flags, you decide what should be build with an application and what not. If you only use kde + arts sound daemon, there is no use in adding oss, alsa, esd or other sound systems to your application
[04:18] <Alex[RM-UK] > *gasp* can you no longer download a trial of 3ds max?!
[04:18] <Aapzak> load on your system will be a lot less because so much can be left out
[04:18] <wellso> for a noob like me the flags would confuse me
[04:19] <Poromies> hmm, hard to compare them, emerge is great for source-like distros and apt for these binary orientated, though they both can handle binary and source packages
[04:19] <wellso> id miss something vital and only realise once its compiled
[04:19] <Aapzak> wellso: prolly :) but using gentoo makes you also understand your (linux) system a lot better,
[04:19] <Bubbling_Zombie> http://julien.danjou.info/article-apt-build.html <- Aapzak you might want to check this
[04:19] <wellso> i've heard good things about gentoo
[04:19] <Bubbling_Zombie> Aapzak that whole "understanding" thing doesn't depend on the distro. It depends on the person using it
[04:19] <Alex[RM-UK] > does anyone know if you can still get hold of the 3dsm trial on there site?
[04:20] <Alex[RM-UK] > it seems as if it's been taken off
[04:20] <Poromies> Aapzak: not entirely true, mainly gentoo teaches how to use handbook, manuals and support forums :)
[04:20] <Aapzak> Gentoo is nice, but I dont't run it on this laptop because I don't want to let this machine compile everyting
[04:20] <Poromies> imo that is ;P
[04:20] <Aapzak> Poromies: which are all perfect, the best I've ever seen
[04:20] <wellso> i need to learn some foundation linux/unix skills
[04:21] <Aapzak> Bubbling_Zombie: when you build your system from scratch, you'll have to learn a few things too
[04:21] <Bubbling_Zombie> like?
[04:21] <wellso> when i go uni I think they are using solaris :S
[04:21] <Poromies> gentoo doesn't force to build from scratch btw, you can choose stage3 or even install Vidalinux (stage4 with anaconda)
[04:21] <Aapzak> Bubbling_Zombie: you'll learn about system loggers, dir structure, cron daemon, etc. basic stuff, but it helped me in realising what the kernel does and what everything else does
[04:22] <Alex[RM-UK] > Guys, and girls, does 3dsm work on Mac os by any chance?
[04:22] <Bubbling_Zombie> Aapzak you learn that stuff , once you evolve from a "everything in the gui" to the "me & my terminal"
[04:22] <Aapzak> :)
[04:23] <wellso> im a GUI kind of guy
[04:23] <Aapzak> I never used a gui-config-based linux
[04:23] <wellso> my term. experiance is vague to say the least
[04:23] <Aapzak> I've been running Debian for years, since a year or two gentoo
[04:23] <Alex[RM-UK] > brb gotta restart kde,
[04:24] <wellso> the support on here is fantastic, never had a problem that hasnt been solved
[04:26] <Aapzak> Bubbling_Zombie: I'm using Kubuntu on this laptop because I like the apt system, but dislike Debian's release schedule. I like Ubuntu's better, just twice a year a new release, regardless of how far we got. It makes system administration much easier
[04:26] <Bubbling_Zombie> i use debian. don't flog me now.
[04:26] <Aapzak> :)
[04:26] <Aapzak> unstable I presume?
[04:27] <Bubbling_Zombie> sure
[04:27] <Aapzak> the tree I mean, not the system :)
[04:27] <Bubbling_Zombie> :')
[04:27] <Bubbling_Zombie> testing is way to slow to release things
[04:27] <Aapzak> you have xorg now?
[04:27] <Bubbling_Zombie> yes, they switched couple o' weeks ago
[04:27] <Aapzak> kewl
[04:27] <Aapzak> and kde version?
[04:27] <Aapzak> debian is my old love you know
[04:28] <Bubbling_Zombie> unofficial (from a rep from a debian maintainer) 3.4.1
[04:28] <Aapzak> but thats not in unstable yet? or is it?
[04:28] <Bubbling_Zombie> not yet no
[04:28] <Aapzak> too bad, I need a newer KDE, lots of Kopete fixes
[04:28] <Bubbling_Zombie> there are preview packages
[04:29] <wellso> what the command to find my KDE ver.?
[04:29] <ztonzy> anyon yet tried amu's new livecd ?
[04:29] <ztonzy> anyone*
[04:29] <Aapzak> wellso: dunno :)
[04:29] <Bubbling_Zombie> wellso , open any application and check help-> about kde
[04:30] <Aapzak> yeah
[04:30] <Aapzak> I'm still on 3.4.1 too, so no MSN through Kopete for me
[04:31] <Bubbling_Zombie> ow, it works perfectly here
[04:31] <Aapzak> you must have a fixed version than
[04:31] <Aapzak> I have 0.10.2
[04:32] <jpatrick> Is there a program that can run .wmv files?
[04:32] <nikkia> works perfectly here, too
[04:32] <Bubbling_Zombie> heh, me too -_-
[04:32] <Aapzak> weird
[04:33] <Bubbling_Zombie> I use the preview packages
[04:33] <ztonzy> nikkia: did you try the new livecd yet ?
[04:33] <Bubbling_Zombie> don't know about the kubuntu versions tho
[04:33] <nikkia> ztonzy: nope
[04:33] <ztonzy> nikkia: haven't got it running yet
[04:36] <Alex[RM-UK] > Hey,
[04:36] <Alex[RM-UK] > Guys I just installed kde 3.4.2
[04:36] <Alex[RM-UK] > but now It has removed my Control Center Link
[04:36] <Alex[RM-UK] > how do I get it back
[04:38] <jpatrick> that happenes
[04:38] <jpatrick> just make a new menu entry
[04:40] <Alex[RM-UK] > Ho sorry, was playing Frozen bubble, such a good game.
[04:40] <Alex[RM-UK] > I was going to do that but I didn't know the link to it
[04:40] <Alex[RM-UK] > do you know what it is?
[04:40] <jpatrick> kcontrol
[04:41] <Alex[RM-UK] > anyone remeber the Icom for it?
[04:41] <Alex[RM-UK] > I got it
[04:41] <Alex[RM-UK] > woohoo, it installed ok.
[04:41] <jpatrick> just click the icon selector and look for it
[04:42] <Alex[RM-UK] > is KDFX or somethign like that, an addon for KDE? because I want to get it but not sure were to get it from
[04:42] <jpatrick> no idea..
[04:42] <Alex[RM-UK] > ok
[04:42] <Alex[RM-UK] > ahh, ati drivers...new there was something I forget.
[04:42] <Alex[RM-UK] > forgot*
[04:43] <Alex[RM-UK] > hum, edubuntu? whats that lol
[04:43] <Alex[RM-UK] > education version of ubuntu?
[04:47] <apokryphos> Alex[RM-UK] : yeah, for schools n' stuff
[04:47] <ztonzy> apokryphos: hey
[04:48] <apokryphos> Hi
[04:48] <Alex[RM-UK] > schools? good luck to getting kids to use Linux
[04:48] <lscd> why not?
[04:49] <Alex[RM-UK] > Windows 100% for schools and kids, alot alot easier for them to use than linux i'd say
[04:49] <lscd> i started using it at 13, my little sister uses it, and when we have kids over, they love pingus
[04:49] <apokryphos> it's already happening
[04:49] <buz> Alex[RM-UK] : no
[04:49] <lscd> Alex[RM-UK] : it really makes no difference to a newbie, as long as they're not adding hardware and stuff.....
[04:49] <buz> i dont think windows is any easier than linux for someone who doesnt know either
[04:49] <buz> and linux got one biiiig advantage: no spyware etc
[04:49] <Alex[RM-UK] > i'm 14 and use it, but for schools - think when tehy go home they have windows - they go to school and somehow use Linux for the first time,
[04:49] <PieD> buz: ++
[04:49] <buz> and much easier to administrate in a school setting, for sure
[04:49] <lscd> buz: my mom is barely tech-literate (she can do her email without thinking she's lost it if she minimizes it now) and she prefers kde to windows
[04:50] <buz> i gave my parent macs
[04:50] <ztonzy> apokryphos: 3rd time and still no work of livecd heh
[04:50] <PieD> I see a lot of people prefering linux
[04:50] <ztonzy> I will not try again
[04:50] <buz> traditionally, swiss schools have been using macs
[04:50] <lscd> Alex[RM-UK] : i used macs at school when i was little, and windows at home starting at 10 - it's really not that hard - you have to learn the apple menu vs the start menu vs the k menu
[04:50] <Alex[RM-UK] > yes, I know Linux advantages but for little people i would give them windows
[04:50] <PieD> since they don't "administrate" it
[04:50] <apokryphos> ztonzy: ?
[04:50] <PieD> they don't add hardware
[04:50] <lscd> buz: eh, that was in canada; the swiss schools i know of mainly use pcs though :/
[04:50] <PieD> they have no driver problem
[04:50] <ztonzy> apokryphos: burned new livecd 3 times and cannot boot it
[04:50] <PieD> no spyware, no viruses : what a dream !
[04:50] <buz> lscd: depends
[04:50] <lscd> buz: i'm in switzerland
[04:50] <buz> university of zurich is still using loads of macs
[04:50] <buz> so am i
[04:51] <ztonzy> so I wont try no more
[04:51] <lscd> eh
[04:51] <ztonzy> ;)
[04:51] <wellso> where i live its 99.5% windows workstations/servers
[04:51] <buz> highschool was dell land though
[04:51] <apokryphos> ztonzy: others have worked? You should let amu know
[04:51] <PieD> and for a school, tools like dansguardian are great (for proxies)
[04:51] <Alex[RM-UK] > haha yeh my high school is all dell
[04:51] <wellso> yeah, shitty dell's that HD's blow up
[04:51] <Alex[RM-UK] > yep
[04:51] <ztonzy> apokryphos: tried it on a cd-rw with 10x burn speed capability
[04:51] <Alex[RM-UK] > all the dl badges people have taken off lol
[04:51] <lscd> sure, my university is entirely windows-based, except for the cs department (lucky, the main liceo here is olivetti based.....), - the cs department here is mac based, with a couple of linux servers
[04:51] <Alex[RM-UK] > dell*
[04:51] <ztonzy> used k3b and autospeed...simplymepis works
[04:52] <buz> lol
[04:52] <ztonzy> same cd-rw and burnspeed
[04:52] <apokryphos> ztonzy: yes, would be a good idea to contact him; he's appreciate it I think.
[04:52] <ztonzy> apokryphos: also got midsum for green light
[04:52] <ztonzy> he is not here I see
[04:52] <apokryphos> s/he's/he'd
[04:52] <buz> if i was sysadmin, i'd never use windows
[04:52] <buz> really
[04:52] <buz> it's a recipe for disaster
[04:52] <Alex[RM-UK] > i would always 100% use linux for servers
[04:52] <buz> mhh maybe bsd
[04:52] <Alex[RM-UK] > no doubt about it
[04:53] <PieD> buz: sadly, I know one case where people can't do without windows :
[04:53] <buz> but yeah, unix it would be
[04:53] <PieD> ultra specific applications
[04:53] <buz> that's true
[04:53] <buz> but for those i'd use terminal services
[04:53] <PieD> with ultra specific file formats
[04:53] <Alex[RM-UK] > I can't live without Windows. The prorgams I use will only work on it so I HAVE to use windows
[04:53] <apokryphos> Our school used Linux server too; had a couple of Linux computers too but they weren't really used
[04:53] <PieD> Alex[RM-UK] : you can always have a way to escape from windows
[04:54] <Alex[RM-UK] > I come on Linux when ever I want to escape and know I wont be doing any graphics work
[04:54] <lscd> apokryphos: sure, it's slightly easier to set up a linux system which sucks, but especially for younger people who aren't really used to windows, linux is pretty simple, as long as they don't admin it
[04:54] <apokryphos> lscd: I completely agree
[04:54] <Alex[RM-UK] > I bet they would love Frozen Bubble.....i'm addicted to it now :)
[04:55] <apokryphos> lscd: usability in Unix DEs is really improving
[04:55] <christin> #kalzium
[04:55] <lscd> hehe..... it's quite addictive, yeah
[04:55] <wellso> i agree :)
[04:55] <lscd> apokryphos: yeah - i've really liked kde 3.2 onwards
[04:55] <apokryphos> lscd: suffice it to say it would save the schools a *lot* of money too
[04:55] <Alex[RM-UK] > If people have seen no different, yes Linux, but if they are used to Windows as a Kid, and then you try and give them Linux at that age...They will freak out proberly,
[04:55] <christin> # kalzium
[04:55] <lscd> apokryphos: well... there's the whole issue of educational software - a lot is written amazingly poorly, but some works
[04:55] <apokryphos> Alex[RM-UK] : for non-administration/hardware? I really doubt that
[04:55] <Alex[RM-UK] > no I mean loads of things will be different,
[04:56] <wellso> depends on their level of intuition IMO
[04:56] <Alex[RM-UK] > the programs they are used to wont be there, things in a differnt place, they wouldn't like it
[04:56] <Alex[RM-UK] > it's like taken there fravirite cuddly toy away and replacing it with somethign else
[04:56] <apokryphos> Alex[RM-UK] : yes, but nothing they couldn't quite easily learn. When my friends use my computer all they need to know is "what program does what"
[04:56] <wellso> its a very user-specific matter
[04:56] <lscd> Alex[RM-UK] : i've got first-hand experience saying otherwise
[04:56] <lscd> i've put people as young as 8 in front of linux, who are used to using windows and macos
[04:57] <lscd> and they're happy clicking at the penguin games
[04:57] <Alex[RM-UK] > true, but it would be unusaly to them to start with, some may get it but I doubt all would
[04:57] <lscd> Alex[RM-UK] : that's a slightly different age group, and really not comparable - perhaps more like giving them another toy
[04:57] <christin> #j kalzium
[04:57] <apokryphos> KDE's making a great effort here too; see http://edu.kde.org/
[04:57] <wellso> im interested to see how schools here react to edubuntu
[04:57] <lscd> Alex[RM-UK] : 'you click' - the barrier is being able to use a mouse, not the specific de
[04:57] <buz> for me, one of the killer arguments for kde: sftp kioslave. i can work with php scripts on servers just like they were on my machine ;)
[04:58] <apokryphos> buz: yup. Or fish too -- I find it a little faster.
[04:58] <buz> !fish
[04:58] <ubotu> buz: I'm not sure, is it larger than a breadbox?
[04:58] <Alex[RM-UK] > I know Linux is easy to use, im not saying it';s not. I mean if kids are use to Windows they wont be able to find anything on Linux to start with
[04:58] <lscd> buz: yes, kde has some advanced stuff
[04:58] <buz> apokryphos: what's fish
[04:58] <Alex[RM-UK] > something you eat?
[04:58] <lscd> Alex[RM-UK] : you're underestimating kids; point them to the k menu, perhaps show them where the games are, and they're mainly good
[04:58] <Aapzak> kopete + msn works here too, now what was that other problem I was having
[04:59] <buz> i think they even figure out what the k menu is
[04:59] <buz> it's in the same place as start after all
[04:59] <Alex[RM-UK] > yeh I was about to say that
[04:59] <apokryphos> ubotu: fish is A way to access another computer's files using a simple SSH shell account and standard UNIX utilities on the remote side.
[04:59] <ubotu> okay, apokryphos
[04:59] <apokryphos> buz: see help:/kioslave -> fish
[04:59] <christin> could anybody tell me what I have to do to get in a new channel ?
[04:59] <Alex[RM-UK] >  /join #channelname
[05:00] <apokryphos> christin: /join #channelname
[05:00] <wellso> "/join #channelname"
[05:00] <apokryphos> snap
[05:00] <Alex[RM-UK] > bang
[05:00] <Alex[RM-UK] > lol, when I said it first to him - I forgot to put a space so it went to "channelname"
[05:00] <Alex[RM-UK] > ^^
[05:00] <wellso> lol i was there too
[05:00] <apokryphos> buz: some say it's more secure too but that would be speculative coming from me -- haven't researched it.
[05:01] <Alex[RM-UK] > oo it's taking ages to install gedit
[05:01] <apokryphos> Alex[RM-UK] : now why would you want to do that ;-)
[05:01] <christin> aprokryphos: thanks! :-) i forgot the " / "
[05:01] <Alex[RM-UK] > not sure really lol,
[05:01] <apokryphos> !kate
[05:01] <ubotu> well, kate is KDE's advanced multi-view text-editor good for things from viewing the HTML source of a site, to hanlding advanced coding in C++, PHP and XML. See http://kate.kde.org
[05:01] <wellso> i like gedit
[05:01] <Alex[RM-UK] > I know what kate is, and gedit
[05:02] <apokryphos> christin: no worries. As a note, you can use TAB for autocompletion of nicknames in IRC
[05:02] <Alex[RM-UK] > loads of commands on Ubuntus support uses gedit, and I keep having to change it to nano. and it's a pain in the le'derier
[05:02] <apokryphos> Alex[RM-UK] : then it follows that you would use kate ;-)
[05:02] <wellso> i'll happily use kate tho
[05:02] <Alex[RM-UK] > Wow, has ATI actually made a GUI install?!
[05:03] <wellso> apokryphos: nice tip (TAB)
[05:03] <Alex[RM-UK] > im following this guide http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=32495 and I did it a few months ago and it never came up with a GUI install before
[05:03] <wellso> i wish i never bought an ATI
[05:03] <Alex[RM-UK] > lol
[05:03] <wellso> peice of shit
[05:03] <Alex[RM-UK] > there not, very good cards
[05:03] <kay> really?
[05:03] <Alex[RM-UK] > just not for linux
[05:04] <wellso> yeah, its fine in windoze based games etc.
[05:04] <buz> r200?
[05:04] <apokryphos> what other disadvantages are there other than composite stuff in X.org?
[05:04] <buz> ati cards are a pain with linux
[05:04] <lscd> buz: the r200 based cards, like the 9200, 9250, etc, have oss accelerated drivers
[05:04] <lscd> the r300 ones only have the proprietary drivers for 3d accel
[05:04] <buz> well i got a few 9000
[05:04] <kay> I have an ATI with no trouble for some time now
[05:04] <wellso> im unsure of my core
[05:04] <wellso> 9600
[05:04] <buz> but the nvidias are better
[05:04] <lscd> so, the 9600, 9800, etc are a pain
[05:04] <buz> 9600 -> r3XX
[05:04] <wellso> :(
[05:05] <kay> 9600 is OK for me, what is the problem?
[05:05] <lscd> buz: yeah.... but i hate the idea of running closed source video drivers
[05:05] <buz> mhh i dont really care
[05:05] <lscd> kay: closed drivers; try running that 9600 with hardware accel on linux on mac hardware
[05:05] <wellso> lack of 3d accelleration
[05:05] <lscd> buz: eh, for userspace apps i don't care, but my kernel? ergh
[05:05] <buz> i rather have open source in user space
[05:05] <buz> i don't go about installing linuxbios either ;)
[05:06] <kay> But without the games, I totally have no need for accelerated 3D
[05:06] <buz> as long as it's free and works reasonably well i'm not going to care much
[05:06] <buz> it's not like i'm going to hack graphics drivers, ever
[05:06] <kay> I guess few people have... and then, what are the studios using now in their Linux?
[05:06] <lscd> buz: yeah, i'm always tempted to, but then i go back to reality ;)
[05:06] <lscd> kay: nvidia, so there's serious effort in making the nvidia drivers better
[05:07] <buz> apokryphos: fish seems nice
[05:07] <buz> will try next time i'm about to use sftp
[05:07] <lscd> ati just used to be more cooperative, and i've not been able to stomach the thought of switching to nvidia yet
[05:07] <apokryphos> cool
[05:07] <Alex[RM-UK] > tada, gotta restart
[05:07] <buz> kioslaves rock
[05:07] <kay> I used the ATI, because it has a passive cooling and decent performanced
[05:08] <buz> there are passively cooled gf6600 now
[05:08] <buz> even 6800 but i doubt that works so well
[05:08] <wellso> i am tempted to get a 6600gt
[05:08] <buz> well i figured theres no point
[05:08] <kay> buz: Once FUSE makes it into the kernel, the KIO slaves will be available to cp even, THEN it will be invinceable
[05:08] <Aapzak> ati is also a pain with xinerama
[05:08] <wellso> damn ATI to hell
[05:09] <buz> xinerama is a pain anyhow
[05:09] <buz> why cant the stupid thing merge different screens like windows can
[05:09] <lscd> yeah
[05:09] <buz> without any oversized virtual screen weirdness
[05:09] <buz> i've come to only more use the 20" lcd
[05:09] <Aapzak> I had a nice 9800Pro, I sold it with a big loss and bought a 6800LE cheap. Thatone is just as fast as the 9800Pro even without tweaking it up
[05:09] <buz> the 17" is just standing there not being used
[05:10] <kay> Pity, buz
[05:10] <buz> yeah it sucks
[05:10] <lscd> yeah, that does
[05:10] <buz> but less than running a gorgeous 1600 display at 1280
[05:10] <Aapzak> in windows you can open some pipes and vertex shaders and the 6800LE rocks!
[05:10] <nxv_> is there a problem with kopete's history? i have the plugin activated but wenn i rightklick a contact ans select history nothing is displayed
[05:10] <buz> well if i was a gamer still, i'd get the gf6600
[05:10] <buz> this way, the r200 is good enough
[05:10] <apokryphos> nxv_: it should work fine
[05:11] <lscd> buz: yeah, 3d accel works sufficiently for tuxracer
[05:11] <apokryphos> nxv_: are you sure you have a history with the person you're right-clicking on?
[05:11] <Aapzak> ati is good enough if you have no need for 3d power and no need for more than one screen
[05:11] <apokryphos> nxv_: since you enabled the plugin
[05:11] <wellso> very true
[05:11] <lscd> i've not been able to get some non-game opengl stuff to work nicely, especially 32-bit apps on my amd64 running a 64-bit os though :/
[05:11] <wellso> depends on what you want from your box
[05:11] <nxv_> apokryphos: yes, in jabba as well as in icq, tried several contacts
[05:11] <Aapzak> but then again, a matrox g400 would be good enough too
[05:11] <buz> anybody knows if nvidia can do different resolutions with multi head?
[05:11] <apokryphos> nxv_: oh, it might only be supported for MSN plugin at the mo
[05:12] <buz> i might just get another 20" lcd otherwise
[05:12] <buz> they've become reasonably cheap
[05:12] <Aapzak> buz: I think it should be possible. \
[05:12] <buz> they claim it to be possible with ati as well
[05:12] <Aapzak> :)
[05:12] <lscd> meh...... i should set up dual-head on my ati
[05:12] <Aapzak> ati sucks on linux
[05:12] <buz> well maybe it is
[05:12] <lscd> i have the cards, i have the monitors, i have the adaptor
[05:12] <buz> so have i
[05:13] <kay> Well, I find that ATI statements far too general
[05:13] <buz> but it suuuucks
[05:13] <lscd> buz: true
[05:13] <buz> i had it working
[05:13] <lscd> my sister's machines always have nvidia, and they're smoother, though i've not tried dual-heading them
[05:13] <buz> but driving lcds outside native resolution suxors
[05:13] <lscd> yeah
[05:13] <nxv_> apokryphos: u mean it doesn't work with icq protocol?
[05:13] <lscd> my 22" is a crt for a reason ;)
[05:14] <kay> The image quality of Nvidea and ATI is e.g. a lot worse than Matrox
[05:14] <apokryphos> nxv_: it may not; I haven't tried it. You could ask in #kopete
[05:14] <buz> damn crts use too much power and above all space
[05:14] <kay> Only that I never saw Parhelia become buyable.
[05:14] <Aapzak> buz: I thought the nvidia linux drivers were just as good as Windows drivers, right? in that case you should be able to run diff resolutions
[05:14] <wellso> im on the verge of buying a tft
[05:14] <buz> who cares, i use dvi anyway ;)
[05:14] <lscd> buz: true... but i like to be able to switch resolutios
[05:14] <kay> For games, LCDs are normally suboptimal
[05:14] <buz> Aapzak: i think it's, as always, an X issue more than anything else
[05:14] <buz> i stopped gaming years ago
[05:14] <wellso> yeah, need a fast response
[05:15] <_StarScream> Aapzak: what can't the nvidia drivers do?
[05:15] <wellso> -16 ms
[05:15] <buz> 25ms is just fine for me
[05:15] <kay> They always tell untruths about that
[05:15] <Aapzak> I've ran xinerama over 2 cards, with diff resolutions, that worked
[05:15] <_StarScream> lscd: september i think , and it will be 6.9 /  7.0 release
[05:15] <buz> Aapzak: do you have that xorg.conf around?
[05:15] <Aapzak> nope
[05:15] <buz> X11R7 w000t
[05:15] <lscd> _StarScream: ahh.. good, any idea if they're still planning to allow people to add input devices/monitors on the fly?
[05:15] <Aapzak> long time ago
[05:16] <Aapzak> but ... X -configure prolly figures it out himself
[05:16] <_StarScream> lscd: no idea...6.9 is an upgrade to the current x.org and 7.0 will be the new modular x.org
[05:16] <buz> Aapzak: didnt do for me at all
[05:16] <lscd> _StarScream: hmm, ok
[05:16] <Aapzak> no?
[05:16] <buz> wenn is 7 slated for release
[05:16] <buz> might have been ati crap though
[05:16] <_StarScream> buz: read up ^^
[05:16] <Aapzak> works here everytime, except for the mouse
[05:16] <kay> Well, with Breezy there is already some pre-7 stuff
[05:16] <buz> simultaneous release?
[05:17] <buz> mhh nice
[05:17] <kay> Yeah, same time
[05:17] <_StarScream> yeh
[05:17] <_StarScream> should be good
[05:17] <buz> is there any chance we'll get workable Xgl soon
[05:17] <kay> Now, xserver-xorg depends on like 100 packages
[05:17] <_StarScream> not sure, but XAA is getting an overhaul
[05:17] <_StarScream> so composite should run on older hardware
[05:17] <kay> I read about demo working, buz
[05:18] <_StarScream> http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg/2005-June/008356.html
[05:19] <kay> It is exciting times for X11
[05:20] <apokryphos> What actual gnome apps are there?
[05:20] <buz> apokryphos: evolution
[05:21] <buz> kay: any ubuntu debs for it?
[05:21] <buz> i wanna see the wobbly windows
[05:21] <buz> and maybe composite that's fast enough
[05:21] <kay> Oh well, Breezy has modularized xorg
[05:21] <kay> And I am using it, just not with composite, which is no more stable or so I am told
[05:22] <apokryphos> buz: is that for definite? And it's not just GTK?
[05:22] <buz> apokryphos: not entirely sure, but seeing that it's from ximian...
[05:22] <kay> xchat, abiword, gnumeric
[05:22] <apokryphos> xchat is GTK, for sure.
[05:23] <buz> kompose would be a nice feature (not as good as expose but it would do) if it was faster
[05:23] <kay> ok, then remove xchat-gnome from ubuntu, apokryphos
[05:23] <kay> buz: Kompose is fast, that is not the problem
[05:23] <Alex[RM-UK] > Hey,
[05:23] <apokryphos> kay: why?
[05:23] <Alex[RM-UK] > how do I back up my Kmenu ...menu items?
[05:23] <buz> fast?
[05:23] <buz> i dont think it's fast at all on my machine
[05:24] <Alex[RM-UK] > I do not trust this kemnu edit, previously it has let me done 100%
[05:24] <kay> apokryphos: Because that package existing, it is just that xchat can be compiled against GTK only and Gnome too
[05:24] <buz> but i dont have composite atm
[05:24] <kay> I am using KDE for a long time already.
[05:24] <kay> But to be fair, back then, KDE had the better infrastructure, but no good apps, everything was at least GTK
[05:25] <apokryphos> kay: I'm thinking of an app that is actually a gnome app, necessarily
[05:25] <kay> Now this is changing, but still, there are about a lot of Gnome apps
[05:25] <kay> apokryphos: The thing is, Gnome does not have much infrastructure
[05:25] <buz> apokryphos: nautilus?
[05:25] <apokryphos> buz: ah yeah, probably.
[05:25] <kay> apokryphos: So, to be a Gnome app, you only need to use GTK for the largest part.
[05:25] <buz> it sucks bad enough anyway
[05:26] <apokryphos> kay: that's what it seems to be, but it's obv. not strictly correct
[05:26] <kay> Yeah, indeed
[05:26] <apokryphos> kay: they even assume this when they talk about apps on their site
[05:26] <kay> A lot of what is in kdelibs for KDE is in GTK for Gnome
[05:26] <Fraeon> Does composite work with the latest ati drivers, by the way?
[05:26] <buz> Fraeon: it didnt do much for me
[05:26] <apokryphos> Yes, but not well.
[05:26] <buz> i got to see something, but it was slooooow
[05:27] <jake1> ok... i have an error message that i would like help fixing
[05:27] <Alex[RM-UK] > How do I backup my Kemnu Menu Items??
[05:27] <Alex[RM-UK] > I do not trust MEnu Edtior as it has left me down before,
[05:28] <Alex[RM-UK] > and I dont want to lose my menu items
[05:28] <apokryphos> Alex[RM-UK] : have you checked the kicker handbook?
[05:28] <Alex[RM-UK] > no
[05:28] <kay> hm... no idea Alex[RM-UK]
[05:28] <jake1> "Composite extension not fount You must use XOrg>6.8 for translucency and shadows to work. Additionally, you need to add a new section to your X config file: Section "Extensions"  Option "Composite" "Enable" EndSection"
[05:28] <jake1> i get that message everytime on startup
[05:29] <jpatrick> jake1: go to the xorg.conf file and edit it
[05:29] <kay> The thing is, so far no X-server is stable with that
[05:29] <Alex[RM-UK] > apokryphos, no I havn't
[05:29] <TestMAD> jake1: add what it says to the bottom of you xorg.conf
[05:29] <jake1> jpatrick which dir is it in?
[05:29] <Alex[RM-UK] > checking for X... configure: error: Can't find X includes. Please check your installation and add the correct paths!
[05:29] <kay> you could grep .kde for a string you know there is in
[05:29] <Alex[RM-UK] > what does that mean?
[05:29] <kay> grep -re "some text" ~/.kde
[05:29] <jpatrick> here: /etc/X11
[05:30] <jake1> X-dev i think Alex[RM-UK]
[05:30] <kay> x-dev it is
[05:30] <Alex[RM-UK] > what?
[05:30] <kay> apt-get install x-dev
[05:30] <jake1> you need that package
[05:30] <jake1> apt-get install x-dev
[05:30] <Alex[RM-UK] > ok
[05:30] <jake1> err sudo apt-get install x-dev
[05:31] <jake1> password: *******
[05:31] <kay> Clever password
[05:31] <jake1> then hit "y"
[05:31] <jake1> thanx
[05:33] <Alex[RM-UK] > configure: error: We need a working libXext to proceed. Since configure
[05:33] <Alex[RM-UK] > can't find it itself, we stop here assuming that make wouldn't find
[05:33] <Alex[RM-UK] > them either.
[05:33] <Alex[RM-UK] > does that mean I need to tell it were KDE is?
[05:33] <jake1> sudo apt-get install libXext
[05:33] <jake1> err... hld on actually
[05:33] <Alex[RM-UK] > lol thanks :)
[05:34] <Alex[RM-UK] > Reading package lists... Done
[05:34] <Alex[RM-UK] > Building dependency tree... Done
[05:34] <Alex[RM-UK] > E: Couldn't find package libXext
[05:34] <jake1> i think that libXext is a different package
[05:34] <jake1> hld on
[05:34] <Alex[RM-UK] > yeh,
[05:35] <jake1> what are you trying to compile?
[05:35] <Alex[RM-UK] > Lipstick 1.2 skin, theme
[05:35] <jake1> sudo apt-get install libxext-dev
[05:35] <Alex[RM-UK] > :)
[05:36] <Alex[RM-UK] > checking for libXext... no
[05:36] <Alex[RM-UK] > configure: error: We need a working libXext to proceed. Since configure
[05:36] <Alex[RM-UK] > can't find it itself, we stop here assuming that make wouldn't find
[05:36] <Alex[RM-UK] > them either.
[05:36] <mart> bah, why would firefox not render any fonts?
[05:36] <Alex[RM-UK] > Hum.
[05:37] <jake1> damn,... i closed the error message so i dnt know what is a new line and not for adding those to my xorg.conf file
[05:38] <jake1> did you install it ?
[05:38] <Alex[RM-UK] > hum?
[05:38] <Alex[RM-UK] > me?
[05:38] <jake1> yea
[05:38] <Alex[RM-UK] > ahh, sorry
[05:39] <Alex[RM-UK] > checking for libXext... no
[05:39] <Alex[RM-UK] > configure: error: We need a working libXext to proceed. Since configure
[05:39] <Alex[RM-UK] > can't find it itself, we stop here assuming that make wouldn't find
[05:39] <Alex[RM-UK] > them either.
[05:39] <jake1> yea ok...
[05:39] <Alex[RM-UK] > I installed the packages but it came up with same error,
[05:39] <jake1> did you do the sudo apt-get install libxext-dev
[05:39] <Alex[RM-UK] > yep
[05:40] <jake1> bleh this happened to me a couple days ago
[05:40] <Alex[RM-UK] > ahh, so im not the odd one out then ^^
[05:40] <jake1> i dnt know if i remember what i did
[05:40] <Alex[RM-UK] > :( shame
[05:40] <jake1> let me refer to 'history'
[05:40] <Alex[RM-UK] > ok
[05:40] <Alex[RM-UK] > ./configure --prefix=/opt/kde maybe?
[05:42] <Alex[RM-UK] > nope
[05:42] <jake1> 71  ./configure
[05:42] <jake1>    72  sudo apt-get install libXext
[05:42] <jake1>    73  sudo apt-get install libXext-dev
[05:42] <jake1>    74  sudo apt-get install libXext-dev
[05:42] <jake1>    75  ./configure
[05:42] <jake1> that was my history
[05:42] <Alex[RM-UK] > 72  sudo apt-get install libXext
[05:42] <Alex[RM-UK] > think I need that..hang on
[05:43] <jake1> that does not exist
[05:43] <Alex[RM-UK] > ahh, thats why then
[05:43] <jake1> it's the last one you need
[05:43] <Alex[RM-UK] > hum, it's there
[05:43] <jake1> mkay then
[05:43] <jake1> i g2g nows
[05:43] <jake1> off to the ocean
[05:43] <Alex[RM-UK] > ok, cya thanks
[05:47] <Hamster> Hi, can anyone help me sort out root access (yes I've read the wiki rootsudo article)?
[05:48] <Alex[RM-UK] > what do you mean?
[05:48] <_courtney> heh
[05:49] <Alex[RM-UK] > I know nothing :(
[05:49] <Hamster> I"m running kubuntu. When I open a konsole window and type `su -`, it tells me authentication failed. I'm desperately trying to get su - to work.
[05:49] <Alex[RM-UK] > you need to set up a admin password
[05:49] <nikkia> Hamster: use sudo -s instead
[05:50] <nikkia> or sudo -i to duplicate su - functionality
[05:50] <Hamster> by that do you mean a root password? Cause if that's the case, root has a password. I can log in as root on a terminal window (ie ctrl-alt-1)
[05:50] <Alex[RM-UK] > ah,
[05:51] <Alex[RM-UK] > What does this mean?
[05:51] <Alex[RM-UK] > configure: WARNING: libjpeg not found. disable JPEG support.
[05:51] <Alex[RM-UK] > checking for Qt... configure: error: Qt (>= Qt 3.1 (20021021)) (headers and libraries) not found. Please check your installation!
[05:51] <Alex[RM-UK] > For more details about this problem, look at the end of config.log.
[05:51] <Alex[RM-UK] > qt I ned the qt package, but the eror above it
[05:51] <Hamster> nikkia: that worked a treat, thanks - does that mean that under (k)ubuntu, su - will simply never work?
[05:51] <nikkia> Hamster: *shrug* su isn't recommended on [k] ubuntu anyway
[05:52] <Hamster> ok :-) I guess I'll have to get used to doing things differently. thanks.
[05:52] <Alex[RM-UK] > what QT package should I download?
[05:52] <Hamster> Alex[RM-UK] : you need qt-devel if you're tying to compile something
[05:52] <thoreauputic> Hamster: you can make it work - but what would be the point?
[05:52] <Hamster> thoreauputic: the point has now become an exercise in learning. I want to make it work so that I learn how to make it work and so I learn better how (k)ubuntu works. And I really would like to get it working!
[05:52] <Alex[RM-UK] > there is no
[05:53] <Alex[RM-UK] > no qt-devel
[05:53] <thoreauputic> Hamster: very eloquent :)
[05:53] <nikkia> Hamster: the thing is, 'su' is considered a security hole, so all you'd be learning is how to make your system less secure
[05:53] <nikkia> Hamster: its a bit like saying 'how do i install some spyware' on windows :)
[05:53] <nikkia> it might be something interesting to learn, but ultimately, its a bit pointless :)
[05:53] <Alex[RM-UK] > thats not hard, windows come pre-installed with spyware :S
[05:54] <thoreauputic> Hamster: you *can* do " sudo passwd root " to set a root password - but it's "deprecated" as they say ;)
[05:54] <nikkia> alex, no it doesn't... i like linux as much as the next person, but outright lies don't help the cause
[05:54] <Hamster> Alex[RM-UK] : qt3-devel then. try apt-cache search --names-only qt
[05:55] <Hamster> thoreauputic: the root password is already enabled. I can "see" it in /etc/shadow and I can log in as root on a tty
[05:55] <Alex[RM-UK] > nikkia, so how come with I run ad-ware after a fresh install of windows it picks spyware up?
[05:55] <nikkia> alex, because it obviously wasn't 'fresh'
[05:55] <Alex[RM-UK] > even when it's a new hard drive?
[05:55] <thoreauputic> Hamster: well, odd that su isn't working then, agreed
[05:55] <Alex[RM-UK] > when I havn't even connected to the net?
[05:55] <Hamster> thoreauputic: so even with a root password set, in konsole, `su -` doesn't work at all. which is why I'm a touch confused.
[05:55] <thoreauputic> Hamster: right I see
[05:55] <Hamster> thoreauputic: aaaah so the problem is somehow with me then? Typical :-)
[05:56] <nikkia> alex, name the spyware 'detected' and i'll be more prone to believe you
[05:56] <Alex[RM-UK] > alexc or something like that
[05:56] <thoreauputic> Hamster: was that sarcasm or an Eeyore impersonation ? ;-)
[05:56] <nikkia> alex, alexis ?
[05:56] <Alex[RM-UK] > yeh
[05:56] <nikkia> that most certainly isn't on a legal windows install
[05:56] <Alex[RM-UK] > well it's on mine and it's legal
[05:56] <nikkia> alex, then you connected to the net
[05:57] <nikkia> or are just plain lying, one or the other
[05:57] <Hamster> thoreauputic: it was a self deprecating comment to illustrate the historical notion that I always seem to manage to break something without even touching it! :-)
[05:57] <Alex[RM-UK] > nope, seriosuly, when ever I re-install windows I am NEVEr connected to net,
[05:57] <Alex[RM-UK] > even when it;s a new hard drive I have that alexis
[05:57] <thoreauputic> Hamster: ah, an Eeeyore impersonation then !
[05:57] <Hamster> thoreauputic: I think I have more in common with Piglet though!
[05:57] <Alex[RM-UK] > that's why I said it comes with spyware, sorry
[05:58] <thoreauputic> Hamster: hahah
[05:58] <nikkia> alex, alexis is most certainly not installed by a genuine windows install CD
[05:58] <thoreauputic> Hamster: piglet is rather sweet :)
[05:58] <Alex[RM-UK] > mine must not be genuine then :S
[05:58] <Alex[RM-UK] > hum, still no qt3-devel
[05:59] <Hamster> now I'm having odd root troubles. Root from the tty has the correct keyboard, root from sudo -s doesn't. Sigh.
[05:59] <thoreauputic> Hamster: try sudo -i
[06:01] <Hamster> thoreauputic: just did. same problem. I'm going nuts here!
[06:01] <Hamster> It's got the keyboard mapping wrong..
[06:01] <thoreauputic> Hamster: hmm - how did you manage to get into this mess in the first place, I'm wondering ?
[06:02] <Hamster> thoreauputic: pure, unadulterated skill :-)
[06:02] <Hamster> aaah sorted. It's a konsole issue I think
[06:02] <thoreauputic> Hamster: indeed, it is a remarkable feat !
[06:02] <Hamster> some people are just born with it I guess ;-)
[06:03] <thoreauputic> Hamster: the rest of us can only watch in awe of your prowess ;)
[06:03] <Hamster> do you think I should start touring the lecture circuit? demonstrate these abilities?
[06:04] <thoreauputic> Hamster: I'm sure there's a market for it in the USA
[06:04] <Hamster> wow. overseas travel to boot!
[06:04] <thoreauputic> there is for everything else it seems...
[06:06] <Hamster> ok, editing xorg.conf fixed the keyboard problem it seems
[06:07] <thoreauputic> Hamster: you're slipping - you aren't supposed to get it right, you know: it's so out of character
[06:08] <thoreauputic> ;-)
[06:08] <Hamster> well, stand by, I'm going to try upgrading to kde342 now. I'm *bound* to screw that up
[06:08] <thoreauputic> heheh
[06:08] <Hamster> I'm using kubuntu in the first place cause my debian sid install got hosed trying to upgrade to 341. A nice cyclic dependency problem.
[06:08] <thoreauputic> Hamster: KDE 342 ? You have ab impressive time machine there !
[06:09] <thoreauputic> *an
[06:09] <Hamster> aah, yes. It's in the attic.
[06:09] <Hamster> Draws a lot of power, but its quite neat!
[06:10] <Hamster> vista!! Viruses, Insecurities, Spyware, Trojans, Adware!
[06:10] <thoreauputic> hahaha
[06:10] <thoreauputic> good one!
[06:11] <Hamster> or... Various Improvements Similar To Apple
[06:11] <thoreauputic> another winner!
[06:11] <Hamster> is that a piece of mental paper?
[06:11] <apokryphos> What's the current date for Longhorn?
[06:11] <Hamster> 3010 or something
[06:12] <thoreauputic> apokryphos: Longhorn is dating Bill Gates last I heard ...
[06:12] <apokryphos> Got the Beta, but don't have anywhere to install it yet ;)
[06:12] <apokryphos> Hah.
[06:12] <thoreauputic> apokryphos: /dev/null
[06:13] <wellso> lol
[06:13] <Hamster> ok, here's another question about kubuntu - during the install process when you can choose apt mirrors, the mirror list only goes down to countries starting with G. Is this normal? (5.04)
[06:13] <apokryphos> a few of the newer screenshots aren't looking too bad
[06:13] <apokryphos> a lot better than the earlier ones, suffice it to say
[06:13] <thoreauputic> apokryphos: bottle blondes can look OK too
[06:13] <Hamster> ewwwww thoreauputic !
[06:13] <thoreauputic> heheh
[06:13] <apokryphos> few here: http://www.flexbeta.net/main/comments.php?catid=1&shownews=13839
[06:14] <apokryphos> thoreauputic: I'm reminded of beer goggles :|
[06:14] <Alex[RM-UK] > Hum, I just compiled the Lispstik 1.2 theme, but how do I use it?
[06:14] <apokryphos> I really like the page chosen for display on IE there
[06:14] <apokryphos> Alex[RM-UK] : select it from kcontrol
[06:14] <Alex[RM-UK] > it's not there
[06:15] <apokryphos> Alex[RM-UK] : theme or style?
[06:15] <Alex[RM-UK] > no idea,
[06:15] <apokryphos> or window decoration, actually
[06:15] <Alex[RM-UK] > Type:  Theme/Style for KDE 3.2 +
[06:15] <apokryphos> did you specify the kde prefix on the configure?
[06:15] <Alex[RM-UK] > nope,
[06:15] <Alex[RM-UK] > do I need to?
[06:15] <apokryphos> thoreauputic: 'night
[06:15] <apokryphos> Alex[RM-UK] : yes
[06:15] <thoreauputic> night all :)
[06:15] <Hamster> thoreauputic: night!
[06:15] <Alex[RM-UK] > ahh nickers, can I still do that even know it's installed
[06:15] <Alex[RM-UK] > night
[06:16] <apokryphos> Alex[RM-UK] : nah... do sudo make uninstall there then reconfigure
[06:16] <Hamster> is it normal when upgrading to kde 342 that several packages, like kdebase get held back?
[06:16] <apokryphos> Hamster: no. Did you do sudo apt-get upgrade?
[06:18] <Hamster> yes. I've added the source to sources.list, did apt-get update, apt-get upgrade and I'm getting hold backs on kdeadmin, kdebase, kdegraphics, multimedia, network, pim and utils. are they meta packages or something?
[06:18] <Alex[RM-UK] > still not there, but Im not sure if it's install corectly
[06:18] <apokryphos> kdepim is
[06:18] <Alex[RM-UK] > make[2] : Leaving directory `/home/alex/.local/share/Trash/files/lipstik-1.2/style'
[06:18] <Alex[RM-UK] > make[1] : Leaving directory `/home/alex/.local/share/Trash/files/lipstik-1.2/style'
[06:18] <Alex[RM-UK] > make[1] : Entering directory `/home/alex/.local/share/Trash/files/lipstik-1.2'
[06:18] <Alex[RM-UK] > make[2] : Entering directory `/home/alex/.local/share/Trash/files/lipstik-1.2'
[06:18] <Alex[RM-UK] > make[2] : Nothing to be done for `install-exec-am'.
[06:18] <Alex[RM-UK] > make[2] : Nothing to be done for `install-data-am'.
[06:18] <Alex[RM-UK] > make[2] : Leaving directory `/home/alex/.local/share/Trash/files/lipstik-1.2'
[06:18] <Alex[RM-UK] > make[1] : Leaving directory `/home/alex/.local/share/Trash/files/lipstik-1.2'
[06:18] <Alex[RM-UK] > thats part of the make install
[06:18] <apokryphos> Alex[RM-UK] : use a pastebin, please :)
[06:18] <Alex[RM-UK] > a wa?
[06:18] <apokryphos> that is correct, yes, no errors
[06:18] <apokryphos> !pastebin
[06:18] <ubotu> somebody said pastebin was at http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/ http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/ or #flood
[06:19] <Alex[RM-UK] > !pastebin
[06:19] <Alex[RM-UK] > whats taht do??
[06:19] <apokryphos> Alex[RM-UK] : check the links provided
[06:19] <Hamster> apokryphos: no errors on the update
[06:19] <apokryphos> Hamster: once the whole update is done, though, try logging back into kde and run a kde-config --version
[06:20] <Alex[RM-UK] > http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/845
[06:20] <Hamster> apokryphos: dpkg -l | grep kdebase says 3.4.0-0 ubuntu metapackage.
[06:20] <apokryphos> Hamster: you sure you got the 3.4.2 repo in there?
[06:20] <Hamster> the component packages are getting upgraded though I think, so I'll do the upgrade and see what happens!!
[06:21] <apokryphos> Alex[RM-UK] : the make install gives no errors, as you can see
[06:21] <Alex[RM-UK] > oh, so thats ok?
[06:21] <apokryphos> Alex[RM-UK] : I do believe lipstik is a style, so go to kcontrol -> Appearance and Themes -> Style
[06:21] <Hamster> yes. apt-cache show kdebase shows version 4:3.4.2
[06:21] <Alex[RM-UK] > it ha sLipstick there, but not 1.2
[06:22] <Alex[RM-UK] > maybe I need to restart K as it may of overwriten the current Lipstick?
[06:22] <Alex[RM-UK] > ahhhh really?
[06:27] <Alex[RM-UK] > Lipstick 1.2?
[06:27] <apokryphos> !info kde-style-lipstik
[06:27] <ubotu> kde-style-lipstik: (The Lipstik style for KDE), section kde, is optional. Version: 1.0-2ubuntu4 (hoary), Packaged size: 80 kB, Installed size: 308 kB
[06:27] <apokryphos> hm, nope.
[06:27] <Alex[RM-UK] > ow :(
[06:27] <apokryphos> Hamster: what happens if you do sudo apt-get install kdebase
[06:27] <Alex[RM-UK] > Hamster, do you want KDE 3.4.2 ?
[06:27] <Hamster> apokryphos: too late. I just hit Y on the upgrade option. And yes, I want 342 :-)
[06:27] <Alex[RM-UK] > have you added the extra links in?
[06:27] <apokryphos> Hamster: yeah, no worries... we can do it after
[06:27] <Alex[RM-UK] > all I did to update was go to Kynaptic, then click Update all
[06:27] <Alex[RM-UK] > and I got 3.4.2
[06:27] <Hamster> I'm too wary of updating kde while kde is running. that's why I'm doing it from the CLI
[06:27] <apokryphos> Alex[RM-UK] : what commands did you put exactly, for installing lipstik?
[06:27] <wellso> to upgrade do i just add the link from above into my repositories?
[06:27] <wellso> should i comment any lines out?
[06:27] <apokryphos> wellso: no commenting needed. Just add it, then sudo apt-get update ; sudo apt-get upgrade
[06:27] <wellso> excellent
[06:27] <wellso> thanks
[06:27] <Hamster> apokryphos: don't you go nuts having to prefix each command with sudo? That's why i was rather keen to get `su -` working :)
[06:27] <apokryphos> Hamster: generally not, since most my stuff is done without root permissions. It's a pain to switch in and exit constantly, for me.
[06:27] <Hamster> apokryphos: fair enough :) I tend to work in a root login a fair bit, compiling stuff and so forth, so for me its far easier to have a root shell somewhere and just type commands without having to prefix them all with sudo all the time! :)
[06:27] <wellso> it promotes a good habit for noobs like me
[06:28] <apokryphos> Hamster: you shouldn't really compile as root, though.
[06:28] <Hamster> wellso, absolutely, but the true power of any system is being able to switch such things off when the time is appropriate
[06:28] <wellso> does sudo -s do it?
[06:28] <apokryphos> Hamster: of course, and sudo -s is for that
[06:28] <wellso> cool
[06:28] <apokryphos> wellso: I believe Hamster was having keymap problems though
[06:28] <Hamster> apokryphos: yes, I'm aware of that philosophy, but there are reasons why I do. And it's nice to be able to work as accustomed.
[06:28] <insanekane> imho, the wierd thing about sudo is that it doesn't inherit some of the current environment (eg http_proxy env variable) ... what do u think apokryphos ?
[06:29] <Hamster> apokryphos: keymap problem fixed. it was an X problem.
[06:29] <insanekane> nikkia: :)
[06:29] <apokryphos> Hamster: oh, what was it down to?
[06:29] <apokryphos> insanekane: I think it's a dodgy thing on many things, but I prefer it with its quirks to not using it.
[06:30] <Hamster> for reason's I'll never understand, the installer put the keyboard layout as "gb" in xorg.conf instead of "us", despite choosing US layout during the install process
[06:30] <Hamster> gah. reasons.
[06:30] <nikkia> insanekane: su - inherits even less :P
[06:30] <apokryphos> Hamster: weird indeed. But I believe in configuration you have to specify twice, or perhaps not. In sudo dpkg-reconfigure it seems like you have to
[06:30] <insanekane> nikkia: hehe :)
[06:31] <insanekane> apokryphos: of course :) i too use it quite a bit :)
[06:31] <Hamster> *sigh* kdelibs-data failed
[06:31] <wellso> anyone had any problems with KDE 3.4.2?
[06:31] <Hamster> wellso, my problem is I can't install it :)
[06:31] <wellso> lol
[06:31] <insanekane> apokryphos: do u know of any method by which i can export some variables to the sudo environment ? like the http_proxy mentioned above ...
[06:31] <apokryphos> Hamster: try doing sudo apt-get -f install
[06:31] <insanekane> wellso: me, none so far
[06:32] <wellso> notice any improvements?
[06:32] <nikkia> insanekane: i imagine the *proxy env variables are specifically removed because they can be used for evil
[06:32] <nikkia> insanekane: sudo removes a lot of env variables it considers 'dangerous'
[06:33] <apokryphos> insanekane: not without guessing
[06:33] <Hamster> ok, now I am confused. kdelibs-data returned a dpkg error, yet kde 342 has loaded fine.
[06:33] <apokryphos> wellso: a lot of bufixes
[06:33] <Hamster> kcontrol is missing from the kmenu!
[06:33] <apokryphos> Hamster: that's down to kdelibs not installing properly, I wouldn't worry yet
[06:33] <wellso> apokryphos: excellent, i hope my konq does not crash now
[06:33] <apokryphos> Hamster: nor woudl I use your KDE until it's sorted
[06:33] <Hamster> apokryphos: ok! I won't :-) It seems to be working ok though.
[06:34] <Hamster> ooh ok. I'll drop back to terminal and stop kdm then.
[06:34] <apokryphos> Hamster: try get all the 3.4.2 packages sorted
[06:34] <wellso> anyone use bluetooth with KDE?
[06:34] <pakos> Hamster: For kcontrol visibility in the menu, edit /usr/share/applications/kde/KControl.desktop, look at the last line
[06:34] <nikkia> wellso, yes
[06:35] <wellso> i have it semi-working
[06:35] <apokryphos> Hm, kdebluetooth stuff isn't in repos yet -- there's a user repo with it flying about though
[06:35] <wellso> my USB dongle (generic thing off ebay) can detect my phone, but getting it to transfer/recieve files is confusing
[06:36] <nikkia> wellso, you really need to follow kdebluetooth's instructions about replacing the bluez-pin setting :P
[06:36] <nikkia> otherwise, most likely, bluez is asking for a pin on some non-existant terminal somewhere :)
[06:36] <wellso> lol
[06:37] <Hamster> ok, do I need to do the apt-get install -f to get kdelibs-data isntalled? It's saying it can't overwrite /usr/share/icons/default.kde because the file is also in package knetworkconf
[06:37] <apokryphos> Hamster: try it, yes.
[06:37] <nikkia> unfortunately, kdebluetooth suggests overwriting the bluez-pin file, i wouldn't recommend that, i'd recommend changing the bluez config to use kdebluetooth's pinhelper :)
[06:37] <Hamster> nope
[06:37] <pakos> Hamster: no, upgrade knetworkconf before
[06:38] <apokryphos> ah, it's motaboy who's doing kdebluetooth stuff -- it's here: http://dev.kubuntu.org.uk/~motaboy/ubuntu/hoary/
[06:38] <Hamster> pakos, how do I upgrade just one package?
[06:39] <pakos> apt-get install knetworkconf. if there is a newer version available in the repo, it will be installed
[06:39] <Hamster> aaah ok. sorry.
[06:39] <Hamster> <-- not too bright.
[06:39] <pakos> no prob
[06:39] <wellso> apokryphos: thankyou for the link
[06:40] <apokryphos> wellso: just add deb http://dev.kubuntu.org.uk/~motaboy/ubuntu/hoary/ ./
[06:40] <apokryphos> wellso: though there's no need to do it if you have it running already
[06:40] <nikkia> wellso, i'd say step one is making sure that all your hci stuff is setup right before even worrying about kdebluetooth though
[06:40] <Hamster> pakos: kdelibs-data still wont go on
[06:40] <pakos> Hamster: same error?
[06:40] <Hamster> pakos: yes
[06:40] <apokryphos> Hamster: could you pastebin the whole error output?
[06:41] <Hamster> sure
[06:41] <pakos> what is apt-get policy knetworkconf saying, which version do you have now?
[06:41] <wellso> nikkia: by HCI do you refere to human computer interface?
[06:42] <nikkia> wellso, i mean the stuff with hcitool, hciconfig and sdptool
[06:42] <wellso> nikkia: i'm not really sure what they are
[06:42] <nikkia> ie, confirm that your bt dongle is 'up' (it appears a lot like a ethernet port, so you use hciconfig where you'd use ifconfig), confirm that you can scan for devices with hcitool, then confirm that you can talk to the phone with sdptool
[06:43] <nikkia> wellso: give me a minute, there's a good tutorial i'm trying to find again
[06:43] <wellso> nikkia: thanks
[06:43] <mart> hi
[06:43] <nikkia> wellso: here, read this, ignore the gentoo 'emerge' stuff at the top:   http://www.andybotting.com/mediawiki/index.php/Connecting_the_T610_to_Linux,_and_other_bluetooth_adventures
[06:44] <apokryphos> hi mart
[06:44] <wellso> nikkia: thanks, i'll have a crack at it now
[06:44] <mart> anyone know why a package would be in warty, but not hoary or breezy?
[06:44] <mart> http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_packages.pl?keywords=smlnj&searchon=names&subword=1&version=all&release=all
[06:44] <nikkia> its not the tutorial i was looking for tho, so i'll see if i can find the other
[06:44] <apokryphos> mart: yes. Because it wasn't created back then when warty was around.
[06:44] <Hamster> pakos: the paste has been done
[06:44] <apokryphos> mart: generally only security changes are backported
[06:44] <insanekane> apokryphos: its in warty, but *not* in hoary :)
[06:44] <apokryphos> insanekane: hehe
[06:44] <pakos> Hamster: url?
[06:44] <insanekane> mart: did you try universe/multiverse ?
[06:45] <mart> the url above shows that its in universe
[06:45] <mart> s/it's/it was/
[06:45] <apokryphos> mart: perhaps it's obsolete by another package?
[06:45] <insanekane> mart: i mean, did you check hoary/breezy's universe/multiverse ?
[06:45] <apokryphos> or they just haven't packaged it for no specific reason
[06:45] <mart> the currect smlnj package still depends on it
[06:45] <apokryphos> insanekane: yes, the package search shows it isn't there
[06:45] <mart> and thats in universe
[06:45] <Hamster> pakos: http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/846
[06:45] <insanekane> apokryphos: aha
[06:46] <mart> I'd have thought if the current smlnj is in universe, then its dependencies should be too :(
[06:47] <pakos> Hamster: and did you upgrade the knetworkconf too?
[06:48] <apokryphos> pakos: what does knetworkconf have to do with it?
[06:48] <apokryphos> mart: if it has broken dependencies, then it's a bug. Report it to the MOTU buglist
[06:48] <apokryphos> malone database, that is.
[06:48] <pakos> apokryphos: the old version of knetworkconf had the file /usr/share/icons/default.kde, as the error message said.
[06:49] <pakos> apokryphos: now, the new one doesn't. so if he upgrades knetworkconf before, the issue is gone.
[06:49] <Hamster> pakos, yes that's been upgraded
[06:49] <Alex[RM-UK] > hey,
[06:49] <Hamster> pakos: she :-)
[06:49] <mart> apokryphos: "MOTU"?
[06:49] <apokryphos> Masters of the Universe
[06:49] <pakos> Hamster: ups, sorry :-)
[06:49] <Alex[RM-UK] > I have 2 hard drives, hd0 which is my Linux drive, and hd1 is my Win XP drive
[06:49] <Alex[RM-UK] > hd0 is Master and hd1 is Slave
[06:49] <apokryphos> mart: the people who maintain universe/multiverse
[06:50] <mart> apokryphos: I guessed that, but it's not listed on the bugs page
[06:50] <insanekane> apokryphos: so, MoTU doesn't maintain main/restricted ?
[06:50] <pakos> Hamster: the simplest thing to do is now an sudo dpkg -i --force overwrite /var/cache/apt/archives/kdelibs-data_4%3a3.4.2-0ubuntu0hoary1_all.deb, but i won't recommend this
[06:50] <Alex[RM-UK] > nevermind
[06:51] <apokryphos> mart: here https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/distros/ubuntu/+bugs
[06:51] <apokryphos> insanekane: nope
[06:51] <pakos> Hamster: because when you do this, two packages will be responsible for the same file, and it's not soo good :)
[06:51] <mart> apokryphos: thx
[06:51] <Hamster> pakos: from dpkg : ii  kdenetwork     3.4.2-0ubuntu0
[06:51] <insanekane> apokryphos: btw, just for your information, motu in hindi (an indian language) means "fat person" ;)
[06:51] <nikkia> insanekane: and to pro-audio people its a company :P
[06:52] <apokryphos> insanekane: haha
[06:52] <insanekane> nikkia: really ?
[06:52] <nikkia> insanekane: mark of the unicorn
[06:52] <insanekane> nikkia: but it isn't as funny as "fat person" ;)
[06:52] <nikkia> insanekane: they make audio/midi interfaces for pro-audio use
[06:52] <nikkia> insanekane: www.motu.com
[06:52] <insanekane> aha thanks for the info :)
[06:52] <insanekane> apokryphos: :)
[06:53] <pakos> Hamster: the 'bad' package is knetworkconf, not kdenetwork
[06:53] <pakos> Hamster: sorry if i mistyped it before, can't remember
[06:53] <pakos> Hamster: so try to upgrade knetworkconf
[06:54] <Hamster> aah
[06:54] <Hamster> ok
[06:54] <nikkia> insanekane: their 828mkII is a real nice audio interface, but it doesn't use a Bob compatible firewire class :/
[06:55] <nikkia> (and thus has 0 linux support)
[06:55] <Hamster> pakos: it says "already at the latest version" and dpkg tells me knetworkconf   0.6.1-3ubuntu2
[06:55] <insanekane> nikkia: you really like to confuse/confound me dont you ? ;)
[06:55] <nikkia> insanekane: its a hobby
[06:56] <insanekane> nikkia: or at least, give me an information overload :)
[06:56] <insanekane> nikkia: ah ok :)
[06:56] <nikkia> not a very exciting one, but a hobby nontheless
[06:56] <insanekane> you are an interesting person, perhaps a bit too interesting ;)
[06:56] <pakos> Hamster: i have 0.6.1-3ubuntu5, so your's is obviously old :) let's see.
[06:57] <pakos> Hamster: have you deb http://kubuntu.org/ hoary-updates main in your sources.list?
[06:58] <Hamster> pakos: oh! it appears I don't, but I have two entries for hoary-security
[06:59] <Hamster> fixing now
[06:59] <pakos> Hamster: ok. per default it's not there  - dunny why, because it fixes some annoying things, for example the crashing of kaffeine at exit
[06:59] <Hamster> aaah ok. adding now
[07:00] <Hamster> pakos: we've graduated to a new error message! :-)
[07:01] <pakos> Hamster: great! let's see :-)
[07:01] <Hamster> pakos, no need, doing the kdelibs-data install again fixed it!!!  My su - problem has solved itself too :) Now I AM happy :-)
[07:04] <wellso> whats the command for the control panel? :)
[07:04] <Hamster> kcontrol
[07:04] <wellso> lol i was trying kpanel and getting confused
[07:05] <Hamster> :))
[07:05] <Hamster> pakos, a million zillion thanks for your help
[07:06] <pakos> Hamster: you're welcome :)
[07:09] <Mose`> hello
[07:09] <Mose`> i've a serious problem with KDesktop, could anyone help?
[07:10] <pakos> just ask
[07:10] <Mose`> everytime i start kubuntu, my kdesktop crashes, and i "don't have a dektop then" ,what to do?
[07:10] <pakos> maybe we have your answer :)
[07:10] <ztonzy> hey ;)
[07:10] <ztonzy> apokryphos, :P  in SimplyMepis
[07:11] <apokryphos> ztonzy: enjoying it? :)
[07:11] <ztonzy> apokryphos, very fast!
[07:11] <ztonzy> this is just live cd
[07:11] <ztonzy> everything works, java!
[07:11] <ztonzy> out of the box
[07:11] <ztonzy> it is fantastic
[07:11] <pakos> Mose`: interesting. what version of kubuntu / kde do you have?
[07:11] <Mose`> kde is 3.4.0
[07:12] <Mose`> and kubuntu 5.0.4 :}
[07:12] <ztonzy> Mose`, eh what ?
[07:12] <pakos> Mose`: hmm pretty old :-)) and if you restart kdesktop manually, does it chrash again?
[07:12] <apokryphos> ztonzy: heh, yeah, I don't know how they do that. Ubuntu complain of copyright stuff; do MP3s work too?
[07:12] <ztonzy> apokryphos, hmm, I'll check
[07:12] <Mose`> how to restrt it manually?
[07:13] <apokryphos> nikkia: ftp?
[07:13] <pakos> Mose: k menu / run command, 'kdesktop'
[07:13] <nikkia> apokryphos: sftp
[07:13] <ztonzy> wondering*
[07:13] <nikkia> apokryphos: they're cheap B*s and only have a 512/128 connection
[07:13] <ztonzy> apokryphos, too bad "Konversation" isn't on this cd
[07:14] <ztonzy> apokryphos, well not on the menus
[07:14] <Mose`> hm, the run dialog doesn;t load
[07:14] <pakos> Mose`: oh, yeah.. well, it's in kdesktop :-)
[07:14] <nikkia> mose, that's cos... its handled by kdesktop :/
[07:14] <pakos> Mose`: can you start a konsole, and start it from there?
[07:14] <nikkia> mose, its a pain when kdesktop dies, if you don't happen to have a konsole open
[07:15] <nikkia> pakos, doubtful
[07:15] <Mose`> it's open
[07:15] <Mose`> :}
[07:15] <nikkia> pakos, guess what executes menu items
[07:15] <nikkia> mose, then type 'kdesktop' in konsole
[07:15] <Mose`> and how to run i through konsole?
[07:15] <apokryphos> nikkia: 400 still is pathetic, compared to 8meg download
[07:15] <pakos> nikkia: didn't know, that it's kdesktop too
[07:15] <Mose`> it crashes ...
[07:15] <apokryphos> ztonzy: it's a good distro
[07:15] <Mose`> mhm :/
[07:16] <nikkia> mose, the question is, why does it crash?
[07:16] <ztonzy> apokryphos, you mean mepis ?
[07:16] <nikkia> mose, what does it say ?
[07:16] <apokryphos> ztonzy: it just doesn't have as many developers, and the community is smaller (i.e. see #mepis )
[07:16] <apokryphos> ztonzy: but it could be just fine for your needs. Yeah, mepis.
[07:17] <Mose`> em, i just get a dialog that it crashed
[07:17] <ztonzy> apokryphos, ack, I can't mount/load the music cd on my dvd player ...weird
[07:17] <pakos> Mose`: i'll try to update the whole kde to 3.4.2
[07:17] <ztonzy> apokryphos, I know it is smaller
[07:17] <ztonzy> apokryphos, or maybe Debian :P ?
[07:17] <ztonzy> i am sorry
[07:17] <pakos> Mose`: if it's not possible, then we could try narrow your problem
[07:18] <ztonzy> tired of constant crashes in Konqueror
[07:18] <apokryphos> ztonzy: did you say you made a bug report for that?
[07:18] <MikeStyle> hi, umm im trying to burn the iso for windows vista to a disc i have but k3b isnt detecting my burner...and i know it can burn
[07:19] <ztonzy> apokryphos, for konqueror ?  does it matter ?
[07:19] <apokryphos> ztonzy: someone just said they get crashes in konqueror too - -I'd recommend it
[07:19] <ztonzy> hmm
[07:19] <Hamster> MikeStyle: have you run the setup part of k3b?
[07:20] <wellso> does mepis come with commercial drivers included? (i.e. nvidia's official gx driver), mp3 support
[07:20] <MikeStyle> hamster, i dont believe i have
[07:20] <Mose`> maybe i can reinstall somehow that kdesktop? :}
[07:20] <Hamster> MikeStyle: give that a whirl and see if it finds it there.
[07:21] <MikeStyle> hamster: how do i run that setup
[07:21] <nikkia> mose, kdesktop is part of kdebase
[07:21] <nikkia> mose, but its just as likely that a part of kdelibs it depends on is broken
[07:22] <Mose`> mhm