[01:11] <edipss> hi, is there any c++ developers?
[01:12] <edipss> I am new to programming, I would like to develop android apps using QT.
[01:12] <edipss> I tryed pyside for android, but I failed to use android sensors, and python libraries
[01:13] <arayaq> edipss: you might be on the wrong channel, this is for Ubuntu development, not Android. But if you are interested in programming Ubuntu apps, you are welcome
[01:13] <edipss> my question: c++ has rich modules like python? is it possible to install c++ modules in synaptic package or terminal?
[01:15] <edipss> arayaq: Ubuntu touch uses QML, and my question is actually ubuntu touch development too
[01:15] <arayaq> edipss: with modules you mean libraries?
[01:15] <edipss> sorry I joined here first time, I assumed this room for general development, but If I can develop android app using QT, It is possible to publish it for ubuntu touch too
[01:16] <edipss> yes
[01:16] <edipss> I especially would like to use scientific and geographic information system libraries
[01:16] <edipss> such as numpy, matplotlib
[01:17] <edipss> c++ has such libraries?
[01:18] <arayaq> edipss: a lot of libraries are already packaged and ready to install with apt-get (or synaptic), all you need to know is the package name
[01:18] <edipss> yes that sounds good
[01:18] <arayaq> edipss: and if the library if not packaged then is better to refer to their webite for instructions
[01:20] <edipss> arayaq: for example there are installed scientific libraries with apt-get.. when they are used in Ubuntu SDK for ubuntu touch project code, they are automatically packaged? or user needs to install them on repositories on device?
[01:23] <edipss> forexample it imported numpy in ubuntu touch project, and packaged this, when run the app on device, user needs to install numpy ? or it is automatically packaged by QT creator?
[01:23] <edipss> sorry for my bad english
[01:28] <edipss> c++ looks better than python..
[01:28] <sarnold> edipss: click packages will need to install whatever dependencies they require
[01:30] <edipss> sarnold: I dont know anythink about c++, I was studying about python QML, but it was not enough for me, so I decided to study about c++ with QT Quick 2. I wonder c++ libraries can be automatically install one package (deb)
[01:31] <sarnold> edipss: if you use a ppa or configure your own apt server, yes; if you use click packages so that your app appears in the ubuntu app store, no -- you will have to bundle those.
[01:34] <edipss> my os is Lubuntu, and installed many libraries I need. So I can use some scripts with imported libraries in ubuntu. but when this script is packages, its size may be 20 MB (because of installed packages).
[01:35] <edipss> python scripts with QT can be a few KB but when it is packaged by pyinstaller, it can be 15 MB.
[01:36] <edipss> my question is when creating a ubuntu touch package, this can be install required packages like pyinstaller?
[01:36] <edipss> this can install*
[01:40] <sarnold> edipss: I think some of these documents might help you understand what's possible, what's easy, and what's hard: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Specifications/ApplicationConfinement   http://developer.ubuntu.com/publish/apps/security-policy-for-click-packages/
[01:42] <edipss> sarnold: Thank you!
[01:45] <edipss> good night rom
[07:55] <dholbach> good morning
[09:06] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Grammar Day!  :-D
[09:39] <aquarius> hm. In the Music app, once I've picked a genre and it's showing me that list of songs, how do I get back out of it to the front screen?
[09:39] <aquarius> It worries me a lot that I cannot work this out :(
[09:40] <aquarius> ah, the little tiny bar at the top :(
[10:43] <suhaib> Man, this SDK is so cool. Got irc window inside :-O
[10:45] <suhaib> It would be nice if the Ubuntu team would create a youtube account for the developer summit and post all the videos there. it would be much easier to go back to it
[11:40] <nerochiaro> oSoMoN: i can't find any FAIL in this CI log, but it seems the app crashed, can you have a quick look and let me know your opinion ? https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/generic-mediumtests-runner-mako/5622/consoleFull
[11:42] <oSoMoN> nerochiaro, as you can see from the end of the log file, there are crash files, so it looks like something crashed indeed
[11:42] <oSoMoN> gallery-app and unity8, apparently
[11:43] <nerochiaro> oSoMoN: yeah, they were the only things running I guess, so doesn't help much. i'll give it another spin, see if it was a glitch in CI
[11:44] <oSoMoN> nerochiaro, you should be able to access those crash files from within jenkins to retrace them
[11:45] <nerochiaro> oSoMoN: didn't you try that already in the past and it proved to be a dead end because there was not enough info ?
[11:46] <oSoMoN> nerochiaro, not that I remember, if there are crash files they ought to be useful for debugging
[11:46] <nerochiaro> oSoMoN: ok, never did retracing before, any pointers at something doc i can look at ?
[12:48] <sahilgupta> I am new to ubuntu app development ...
[12:48] <sahilgupta> may i know from where to start??
[12:48] <nik90> sahilgupta: welcome
[12:48] <nik90> sahilgupta: I suggest you read http://developer.ubuntu.com/apps/
[12:49] <nik90> sahilgupta: It introduces you to Ubuntu App Development and guides you through the entire process.
[12:49] <sahilgupta> What device I require Specific Mobile device or I can do it in my laptop
[12:49] <nik90> sahilgupta: The development can be done on your laptop
[12:50] <sahilgupta> k..
[12:50] <nik90> sahilgupta: May I ask which version of Ubuntu you are running?
[12:50] <sahilgupta> 12.04 LTS
[12:51] <nik90> sahilgupta: 12.04 LTS is fine, but I would recommend 14.04 LTS for development.
[12:51] <sahilgupta> I read this link first then come back to u...
[12:51] <nik90> sahilgupta: okay. have fun :)
[12:51] <sahilgupta> is it realeased??
[12:52] <nik90> the beta is out and is quite stable. I have been using it for the past 1-2 weeks.
[12:52] <nik90> It gets updates more frequently to the latest SDK and also the new ubuntu emulator
[12:53] <sahilgupta> I heard they gonna launch stable version in April. Is it true...
[12:56] <nik90> yes the stable release will be out on April 17th
[12:58] <nik90> kalikiana: I am almost done with the examples. Just need to clean the code a bit. Let me know when you are free to do a hangout
[12:58] <nik90> kalikiana: preferable >2-3 hours later :)
[13:05] <kalikiana> nik90: cool. just ping me when you're available
[13:08] <zsombi> mhall119: ping
[13:23] <nik90> dpm: ready for your session :) ?
[13:23] <dpm> nik90, rushing out to finish everything, but essentially, yes :)
[13:24] <nik90> dpm: :D
[13:30] <nik90> kalikiana: I got a small issue with my advanced example
[13:30] <nik90> kalikiana: I created a u1db doc with appDb.putDoc({ "username": userName.text, game: {"level": userlevel.text, "class": userClass.selectedIndex}})
[13:30] <nik90> kalikiana: I then created a index with expression expression: ["username", "game.level", "game.class"]
[13:31] <nik90> kalikiana: however in a listmodel when I output JSON.stringify(model.contents) of the query, I get {"class":0, "level":20}. It missed the username field
[13:32] <kalikiana> nik90: lemme see if this may be covered by https://code.launchpad.net/~kalikiana/u1db-qt/wonderiousFields/+merge/207968
[13:32] <nik90> kalikiana: it seems I haven't got the rev 113 update from trunk :/
[13:33] <nik90> kalikiana: I think it may be https://code.launchpad.net/~kalikiana/u1db-qt/entireContentsInQuery/+merge/203058
[13:33] <kalikiana> okay I'll check both
[13:36] <nik90> kalikiana: just sent you an email with the examples
[13:37] <GuillaumeQuittet> Hello
[13:37] <GuillaumeQuittet> Can someone help me please ?
[13:37] <nik90> GuillaumeQuittet: Hi
[13:37] <nik90> GuillaumeQuittet: Go ahead and ask your question. If someone knows the answer, they will help you. That's how IRC works
[13:39] <GuillaumeQuittet> Ok thanks. I want to make a menu with qaction that change the program's interface.
[13:39] <GuillaumeQuittet> So I used QActionGroup
[13:39] <GuillaumeQuittet> And QAction
[13:41] <GuillaumeQuittet> when I click the second time the connect doe not work.
[13:50] <jdstrand> zsombi: hey-- I think someone told me a while ago that you are responsible for the upcoming theming rework
[13:50] <jdstrand> zsombi: is that true?
[13:51] <kalikiana> nik90: unrelated but how about using image://theme/add and image://theme/save
[13:51] <nik90> kalikiana: would that work on the desktop?
[13:51] <jdstrand> zsombi: cause I was thinking about filing a couple of bugs, but wanted to talk to you to make sure they are useful instead of just noise
[13:51] <kalikiana> nik90: yes. there's actually a hack in place in the toolkit now to force that
[13:52] <nik90> kalikiana: oh..sure I will change that then
[13:53] <zsombi> jdstarand: theming rework?
[13:53] <zsombi> jdstrtand: ^
[13:53] <nik90> jdstrand: ^^
[13:54] <zsombi> jdstrand: the theming has been reworked, we're no longer use the CSSlike theme anymore... for ~8 months :)
[13:54] <kalikiana> nik90: so it seems I get the username with wonderiousFields but trunk/ entireContentsInQuery
[13:54] <kalikiana> *but not
[13:54] <nik90> kalikiana: how exactly do I put it? Should I replace the iconSource with image://theme/add ?
[13:54] <zsombi> jdstrand: but feel free to talk about your ideas!
[13:54] <kalikiana> nik90: iconSource: "image://theme/add"
[13:55] <zsombi> jdstrand: maybe we can find something that is valid on the new theming engine
[13:55] <AndrejP> hello all
[13:55] <nik90> kalikiana: ah thnx..I can start using this in the clock app as well :)
[13:56] <kalikiana> nik90: what will the query do, aside from the bug? right now it seems to just yield all docs
[13:56] <nik90> kalikiana: it is just supposed to display the username as the title and the userclass and userlevel as subtext in the Subtitled ListItem
[13:56] <GuillaumeQuittet> My bug is fixed now !! :)
[13:57] <nik90> kalikiana: it is basically a ListView which displays the players in a organised manner
[13:57] <nik90> kalikiana: This bug doesn't happen if I change the document structure to a single level. Something like  { username: "default", userclass: 0, userlevel: 0 } works as expected
[13:58] <kalikiana> nik90: strictly speaking you can do that by just putting the database in the ListView
[13:58] <mhall119> zsombi: pong
[13:58] <zsombi> mhall119: about the session tomorrow about the Layouts
[13:58] <nik90> kalikiana: true I can
[13:58] <zsombi> mhall119: anything special you guys would like to hear?
[13:58] <nik90> kalikiana: but I was thinking of extending it to later filter only those fields with class "Foot Soldier"
[13:59] <jdstrand> zsombi: ah, well, I hit these issues within the last couple months
[13:59] <zsombi> mhall119: I don't really have time to prepare any extra code other than the ones we have in the tutorial...
[13:59] <kalikiana> nik90: that was my question. what you're doing is fine, it just doesn't show query "in action" :-D
[13:59] <jdstrand> zsombi: basically, it all comes down to I'd like to support a 'light' theme for an app
[14:00] <jdstrand> zsombi: but it seems like I can't control the theming (maybe I haven't found what I need) enough
[14:00] <mhall119> zsombi: the one in the tutorial should be fine
[14:00] <nik90> kalikiana: true
[14:01] <zsombi> mhall119: so I'll use the tutorial for the session, I'll go thru it quickly and then leave Q&A time
[14:01] <kalikiana> nik90: since I doubt the fix branch would land in time even if it lifts off today, maybe it's best to just go with single level here
[14:01] <mhall119> zsombi: it's really meant to introduce the idea and answer questions
[14:01] <zsombi> jdstrand: yeah :) the tutorial it's not yet done for the theming
[14:01] <mhall119> zsombi: yeah
[14:01] <kalikiana> nik90: it would resolve it… but nobody will see it :-]
[14:01] <nik90> kalikiana: actually if I use the database as the model, it also shows the deleted documents as {}
[14:01] <zsombi> mhall119: ok, so an extra burden for me to create sample apps in such a busy time is taken away :)
[14:01] <jdstrand> zsombi: for example, OptionSelector - I can get in situations where the text color and the widget are too close
[14:02] <nik90> kalikiana: sure I will use a single level document for the session
[14:02] <jdstrand> and I can't seem to change it
[14:02] <dpm> sessing will start in a minute, sorting the hangout details...
[14:02] <jdstrand> zsombi: or being able to adjust placeHolderText color for TextField
[14:02] <dpm> (hi everyone! :)
[14:02] <zsombi> jdstrand: so you managed to get the app specific theme?
[14:02] <kalikiana> nik90: aaaaah there's that bug with deleted stuff in database as a model, I bet you're hitting that. sometimes I wish the database was not separate code path
[14:03] <jdstrand> zsombi: or changing the color of the background of a focused TextArea
[14:03] <jdstrand> zsombi: I probably did it all wrong
[14:03] <kalikiana> nik90: please stick to the * query then
[14:03] <nik90> kalikiana: I will use a Index and Query with a single document structure. This way I wouldn't hit either of those bugs
[14:03] <zsombi> jdstrand: well, unfortunately not every component's style is made so that by overriding it you can alter colors or so...
[14:03] <nik90> kalikiana: but this is what we need to fix once people start using u1db more and more
[14:04] <kalikiana> nik90: totally agree.
[14:04] <jdstrand> zsombi: usually I'm changing individual components' colors if the component has a 'color' or 'backgroundColor' available
[14:05] <kalikiana> I'm hopefully on to resolving the last failure in the branch soon
[14:05] <jdstrand> zsombi: but for OptionSelector, I actually did something horrible:
[14:05] <jdstrand> OptionSelector {
[14:05] <zsombi> jdstrand: and we don't have the API fixed for the styles...
[14:05] <jdstrand>   style: TextAreaStyle {
[14:05] <jdstrand>     background: UbuntuShape {
[14:05] <jdstrand>     radius: "medium"
[14:05] <jdstrand>     color: ...
[14:05] <jdstrand>   }
[14:05] <jdstrand> }
[14:05] <zsombi> jdstrabnd: omg... starts bad! :D
[14:06] <jdstrand> yes :)
[14:06] <dpm> anyone can hear/see the live stream?
[14:06] <candelibas> dpm: Yes
[14:06] <jdstrand> I don't even know why that works. I have a comment in the qml:
[14:06] <nik90> dpm: we see you
[14:06] <zsombi> jdstrand: remember, the styles usually use something from the styled component, so if you use TextAreaStyle, that may use the TExtField or TextArea properties :)
[14:07] <dpm> thanks guys
[14:07] <jdstrand> zsombi: what was weird was that I got the TextAreaStyle to work with OptionSelector
[14:07] <jdstrand> honestly, I tried to go through the api docs on theming, but came away very confused
[14:08] <jdstrand> perhaps I'll wait for the tutorial and then revisit
[14:08] <jdstrand> though, iirc, OptionSelector in particular didn't seem to have what I needed to change things
[14:08] <jdstrand> anyhoo-- if the theming is all in place, I'll just wait for the docs
[14:08] <zsombi> jdstrand: perhaps it doesn't use things from TextArea
[14:09] <zsombi> jdstrand: yeah, OPtionSelector is not the best component what comes to styling...
[14:09] <jdstrand> zsombi: well, the TextArea is just a total accident-- I copy/pasted something and forgot to change the TextAreaStyle to something else when I reloaded and noticed something changed
[14:10] <jdstrand> zsombi: so I went with it for now
[14:10] <KHendrik> Anyone else really having problem with the sound
[14:10] <zsombi> jdstrand: yes, the theming is up to date, it's the one we will use for sure, and yes, there will be a tutorial for that, hopefuly by 14.04...
[14:10] <nik90> KHendrik: nope
[14:10] <jdstrand> but, I actually don't have my light theme enabled cause there are a lot of things that don't work quite right
[14:11] <KHendrik> nik90, hmmevery second work is just cracking noise for me ...
[14:11] <nik90> KHendrik: tried refreshing the stream?
[14:11] <KHendrik> nik90, multiple times
[14:11] <nik90> weird
[14:12] <KHendrik> hmm seems its actually buffering
[14:13] <KHendrik> i don't understand why my connection is definetly fast enough
[14:22] <dpm> any questions on the concepts?
[14:30] <nik90> dpm: QUESTION: Can't we use QtCreator to generate POT files which for projects without CMAKE file?
[14:33] <nik90> dpm: QUESTION: Will these slides be available later for easy opening of the links mentioned in the slides?
[14:34] <dpm> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-weather-dev/ubuntu-weather-app/trunk/view/head:/po/CMakeLists.txt
[14:45] <nik90> dpm: QUESTION: Is there also a Google+ group for Ubuntu Translators?
[14:47] <nik90> dpm: QUESTION: Do you just need one CMAKELIST.txt file in the po folder? Or Do we need to convert the entire project to CMAKE?
[14:49] <dpm> https://plus.google.com/b/102330453873285638035/102330453873285638035/posts
[14:50] <dpm> https://www.facebook.com/ubuntu.translators
[14:58] <nik90> dpm: thnx for the session
[14:59] <dpm> nik90, you're welcome, thanks for listening in and for participating with your questions :)
[14:59] <nik90> dpm: np...I now have an idea on how to translate my flashback app
[14:59] <dpm> \o/
[15:00] <dpm> nik90, as I said, have a look at the weather app, which I had to fix after the port to cmake (other core apps will follow). You can grab just the cmake bits you need
[15:02] <dholbach> sorry, it's #ubuntu-app-devel
[15:02] <dholbach> not #ubuntu-on-air
[15:03] <dholbach> nevermind :)
[15:03] <nik90> dpm: will do
[15:07] <SKilly> The focus of the screen share isn't great ...
[15:07] <KHendrik> SKilly, looks good to me
[15:08] <KHendrik> maybe look at it directly on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsW52Iq2aPQ#t=174
[15:08] <dholbach> SKilly, do you feel the font should be bigger?
[15:08] <dholbach> any questions so far?
[15:09] <SKilly> no, it's just a bit fuzzy
[15:09] <KHendrik> why not use the template with backend and tabbed ui?
[15:09] <SKilly> (was better earlier?)
[15:09] <KHendrik> yeah thats true fuzzy even though its 720p
[15:10] <SKilly> thanks chaps - I'll give YT a try
[15:10] <dholbach> can you guys prefix question with QUESTION next time? just so I can pick it up more easily?
[15:11] <KHendrik> sure thing
[15:11] <dholbach> thanks!
[15:16] <mhall119> QUESTION: can mzanetti increase his video quality settings? His screensharing is unreadable to me
[15:20] <mhall119> dangers of live coding :)
[15:21] <dholbach> more questions? :)
[15:25] <KHendrik> m_nam not m_name
[15:26] <KHendrik> ok
[15:39] <dholbach> more questions for Michael?
[15:44] <mhall119> mzanetti: are you returning m_position from your position() method, or still the hard-coded QGeoCoordinate?
[15:44] <KHendrik> mhall119, he just fixed it its now dynamic
[15:45] <mhall119> yeah, video lag :)
[15:45] <upsidedown> you check to see if the bool is true so you do not have a mem leak on the signal
[15:46] <upsidedown> aka the notify
[15:48] <upsidedown> the function
[15:49] <dholbach> upsidedown, which function?
[15:49] <upsidedown> the bool one because when he emits the signal
[15:49] <dholbach> mzanetti, ^
[15:49] <dholbach> any other questions? :)
[15:50] <upsidedown> if (m_bool [15:51] <upsidedown> so when you run in qml onSomePropertyChanged{   }   <<  it will check
[15:51] <AlanO> Thank you. Nice demo
[15:51] <KHendrik> thanks a lot nice tut
[15:52] <Skilly> thanks - will we be able to watch video again later?
[15:52] <mrjazzcat> QUESTION:  can you share an example, like this one?
[15:52] <upsidedown> great tutorial all around thanks
[15:52] <mzanetti> hey o/
[15:53] <upsidedown> \o
[15:53] <mrjazzcat> mzanetti:  Awesome session.  Do you have an example for pulling json somewhere?
[15:53] <mzanetti> now I'm free to type
[15:53] <mzanetti> mrjazzcat: thanks. well, that's what this does, no?
[15:53] <mrjazzcat> mzanetti:  ok, cool.  It's just hard for us Qt newbies to keep up :)
[15:54] <mhall119> QUESTION: maybe the same as mrjazzcat, but can you publish your example code somewhere we can download it?
[15:54] <mzanetti> mrjazzcat: yeah, I guess so... It's a bit much if you've never seen C++ before
[15:54] <mzanetti> I tried to target people that have an understanding of QML already and have some very little C++ at least
[15:54] <mzanetti> mhall119: yep, will put it up
[15:54] <mrjazzcat> mrjazzcat:  The C++ I could do fine with.  It's the Qt classes I don't know yet, so an example would be awesome
[15:54] <mhall119> video must have a long lang
[15:54] <mhall119> lag
[15:55] <mzanetti> upsidedown: sorry, still not following... everything you say seems correct, but I still don't really see where it should leak something
[15:55] <upsidedown> cool yeah what I was saying is in your bool function you are setting a private bool property . If you do not check to see if it has changed then it will not know
[15:55] <mrjazzcat> mzanetti:  thanks again for the great demo
[15:56] <mzanetti> upsidedown: aaah. now I get it. you wrote that before I added the changed signal
[15:56] <upsidedown> like emit somePropertyChanged()    whta if it still thinks that it is false or true
[15:56] <upsidedown> cool
[15:57] <upsidedown> great tutorial have a good one
[15:57] <AlanO> mzanetti: Thanks for the demo.I'll pull the code down later and experiment.
[15:58] <mzanetti> mhall119: mrjazzcat: AlanO: here's the code now: lp:~mzanetti/+junk/wheretheissat
[15:58] <mhall119> thanks mzanetti
[15:59] <AlanO> Thank you
[15:59] <mrjazzcat> mzanetti:  sweet, thank you
[15:59] <mzanetti> yw
[16:01] <Skilly> test
[16:03] <mhall119> http://pad.ubuntu.com/appdevweek-1403-ubuntu-ui-toolkit-tips-and-tricks-for-beginners
[16:04] <AlanO> Yes, it looks good
[16:04] <balloons> mhall119, looks fine on the video too
[16:04] <mrjazzcat> mrjazzcat:  yup, good
[16:05] <aquarius> you are live
[16:06] <KHendrik> mhall119, pad is not accessible "Either you have not been granted access to this resource or your entitlement has timed out. Please try again."
[16:07] <balloons> KHendrik, I can add you to the etherpad team if for some reason you are not. What's you lp id? feel free to pm it to me if you wish instead
[16:08] <KHendrik> balloons, didn't know i had to be in the team kbehren is my id
[16:09] <mhall119> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-etherpad
[16:10] <balloons> KHendrik, you should be all set, skilly you too.. Simply reload the page
[16:11] <KHendrik> balloons, thank you works fine now :)
[16:11] <balloons> feel free to ping a question at any time :-) I'll interrupt mike :-)
[16:12] <aquarius> QUESTION: hey, I've never noticed that Outline pane. Do you actually use it?
[16:13] <chocolateThunder> ballons can you repeat the url please?
[16:13] <balloons> chocolateThunder, https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-etherpad?
[16:13] <chocolateThunder> the other one :)
[16:13] <chocolateThunder> to the actual link
[16:14] <balloons> chocolateThunder, http://summit.ubuntu.com/appdevweek-1403/meeting/22145/ubuntu-ui-toolkit-tips-and-tricks-for-beginners/
[16:14] <chocolateThunder> Thanks!Q
[16:17] <balloons> http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/qml/sdk-14.04/
[16:21] <aquarius> QUESTION: how do you clear a saved state while debugging?
[16:22] <aquarius> (because I can never work it out and have to adjust the app to "save" an empty value :))
[16:23] <aquarius> ha!
[16:23] <aquarius> I do not know either. :)
[16:24] <aquarius> Ya, if a Page has one child and it's a Flickable, the header works automatically. Mostly.
[16:24] <aquarius> The rules of this sort of thing are not very well documented, so it's always confusing :)
[16:25] <aquarius> note for example that you do not have clip:true on the listview which means that sometimes it will scroll *under* the header
[16:25] <aquarius> it's dead confusing :(
[16:25] <aquarius> omg my eyes horrible gradient ;)
[16:27] <t1mp> aquarius: the "rule" is that the first of the children of the Page which is a Flickable that can flick in vertical direction, then that's gonna be the automatic value of page.flickable
[16:28] <t1mp> aquarius: if it is documented bad, that's probably my fault. Suggestions for updates are welcome :)
[16:29] <mrjazzcat> QUESTION:  any hints about using Ubuntu design guidelines?
[16:29] <htamayo> great presentation, congrats
[16:30] <RafaelM> very helpful for the noobs. Thanks Michael
[16:30] <balloons> api website again: http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/qml/sdk-14.04/
[16:30] <AlanO> Thanks Michael, great demo.
[16:30] <balloons> http://design.ubuntu.com/apps
[16:31] <mrjazzcat> mhall119:  yup
[16:31] <micah2> QUESTION: Is there any advice or tips on how to come up with good gradients for our apps?
[16:31] <mhall119> http://design.ubuntu.com/apps/building-blocks/page-stack
[16:31] <balloons> navigation: http://design.ubuntu.com/apps/global-patterns/navigation
[16:33] <balloons> https://plus.google.com/communities/111350780270925540549
[16:33] <mrjazzcat> Nice, thank you!
[16:33] <mhall119> https://plus.google.com/u/0/communities/111350780270925540549
[16:33] <balloons> ask a designer :-)
[16:33] <balloons> and if nothing else peer review will help shape your design
[16:34] <micah2> cool, thanks
[16:35] <mrjazzcat> Thanks!
[16:35] <Mark_K> Informative presentation, thank you.
[16:35] <micah2> thanks, mhall119
[16:35] <mhall119> 1w 83
[16:57] <elopio> ping oSoMoN: can you top approve this one so it lands on next release? https://code.launchpad.net/~elopio/webbrowser-app/copyright/+merge/205075
[16:58] <oSoMoN> elopio, I can surely top-approve it, but it’s not as simple as that, a landing needs to be requested for this MR
[16:59] <mhall119> video is going live now
[16:59] <mhall119> let us know when you can see it
[16:59] <elopio> oSoMoN: aren't you doing releases weekly or something like that?
[16:59] <aquarius> I can see it
[17:00] <marcinello> mhall119: we can see you
[17:00] <oSoMoN> elopio, no, it’s an on-demand thing
[17:01] <elopio> oSoMoN: well, next time you have something to release, can you please add this one too? It would be a lot of effort to make a release just for this branch.
[17:02] <oSoMoN> elopio, sure
[17:03] <suhaib> !help
[17:03] <ubot2`> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
[17:03] <mhall119> suhaib: do you need help?
[17:03] <suhaib> mhall119: ya, just wants to know the url for the live video
[17:03] <mhall119> suhaib: http://summit.ubuntu.com/appdevweek-1403/meeting/22148/html5-ubuntuui-components/ should have it embedded
[17:04] <mhall119> if you have a question for the presenter (Kyle) ask it here starting with "QUESTION:"
[17:04] <skilly> .
[17:05] <suhaib> mhall119: Thanks, How come the website sends me to the 11-13 summit ?
[17:05] <suhaib> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1403/
[17:05] <TooLmaN> Are these sessions being recorded for later viewing?  I missed the last one  :(
[17:05] <mhall119> suhaib: because that's happening next week
[17:05] <mhall119> TooLmaN: yes
[17:05] <aquarius> QUESTION: you say that grid units will be available in CSS. That is, I'll be able to say: h1 { height: 8gu; } ?? Really? That'll break the ability to have my html work anywhere else
[17:05] <aquarius> (perhaps you didn't mean that it'll work in css?)
[17:05] <TooLmaN> mhall119: ty
[17:06] <suhaib> mhall119: aha
[17:09] <aquarius> kyleN, mhall119, please, please don't patch the browser renderer to magically understand gu in CSS for Ubuntu only :(
[17:09] <mhall119> aquarius: I *think* they were planning on using a CSS pre-processor to convert gu to pixels
[17:09] <aquarius> I don't know how to say this more strongly. If I'm writing a dialect of HTML which doesn't work in any other browser at all, then it is *not HTML*
[17:10] <aquarius> It means I can't test in a desktop browser.
[17:10] <aquarius> If I'm doing that I might as well just use QML.
[17:10] <aquarius> there is one web for a reason. :)
[17:11] <mhall119> aquarius: like I said, I think they're going to use a pre-processor so you as a developer can write in terms of grid units, but the browser will ultimately only see pixel values
[17:12] <aquarius> mhall119, still means no testing in browser :(
[17:12] <mhall119> aquarius: sure you can, it just means you have to run the process first
[17:12] <aquarius> and Ubuntu's just never going to have as complete a set of tools as the whole rest of the world put together.
[17:13] <t1mp> aquarius: how would you propose to support GUs in html then?
[17:13] <aquarius> t1mp, I wouldn't.
[17:13] <aquarius> that's what you get for inventing your own unit. :)
[17:13] <mhall119> aquarius: you don't *have* to use grid units if you don't want to, they're just there to make your job easier
[17:13] <aquarius> I don't think you need grid units in HTML anyway.
[17:13] <aquarius> Note that the whole rest of the universe is doing responsive design and coping ;)
[17:13] <mhall119> does HTML/CSS provide a way to accomplish the same thing?
[17:14] <ogra_> em ... isnt it ?
[17:14] <aquarius> No. An em is the size of an "m" character.
[17:14] <t1mp> aquarius: and what about other ubuntu-specific stuff, such as launcher online accounts, contenthub, ...?
[17:14] <aquarius> HTML has vw and vh and vmin viewport units, which are useful for this.
[17:15] <aquarius> t1mp, those are APIs, which are fine -- no problem with calling APIs, because you can do those in JavaScript.
[17:15] <aquarius> I'd be happy if the "preprocessor" that was used was, for example, a SASS plugin which was released as JS
[17:15] <aquarius> rather than inventing some brand new tool
[17:15] <aquarius> there's a lot of prior art in this field, and I'm worried that it's not being looked at
[17:16] <t1mp> aquarius: but if you use anything from here http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/html5/sdk-14.04/UbuntuUI/ then it would not work in another browser?
[17:16] <mhall119> vw and vh are non-pixel values?
[17:16] <aquarius> talk to web developers
[17:16] <aquarius> t1mp, it should do. That's JS.
[17:16] <aquarius> mhall119, a vw is 1/100 of the screen width
[17:16] <t1mp> aquarius: so you would copy the JS libs and include with your app?
[17:16] <mhall119> aquarius: physical width? pixel width? what?
[17:16] <t1mp> aquarius: I know nothing about html app development, so I'm asking out of curiosity
[17:17] <aquarius> t1mp, yep, and that's exactly precisely what I did with wordbits.
[17:17] <aquarius> it's convenient that they're shipped on the device, certainly, so I don't have to ship them in my click package
[17:17] <t1mp> aquarius: ok. so in qml we have units.gu(5) for grid units. The same would work if we provided a JS function that does the same
[17:17] <aquarius> t1mp, except that CSS can't run JS functions, sadly.
[17:18] <t1mp> ohh
[17:18] <t1mp> right
[17:18] <aquarius> if I'm building an HTML app then at least part of my motivating reason for doing so (rather than non-portable QML+Ubuntu.Components) is that I want to be on Android and iOS as well
[17:18] <mhall119> for those watching the video, kyleN has mentioned pending changes to the header and toolbar, there will be a session on that Friday at 1400 UTC if you want a preview of what's coming
[17:18] <aquarius> t1mp, there are CSS preprocesors already, and some are in JS so they can be used on the fly, and that'd be great
[17:19] <mhall119> aquarius: ask alex-abreu for more specific implementation details about GU support in HTML5
[17:19] <aquarius> but I don't know if anyone on the team implementing this is doing enough web dev to know about this stuff :)
[17:19] <aquarius> mhall119, will do.
[17:19] <mhall119> again, I think they're going to use one of those CSS preprocessors that you seem to be happy using
[17:19] <aquarius> hooray!
[17:19] <aquarius> that way I can just include sass.js and use it like a normal web app I'd build.
[17:20] <mhall119> aquarius: daker surely does enough web dev to know "the right way" to do this
[17:20] <aquarius> and then preprocess in the build step for production
[17:20] <pabluk> QUESTION: Can we mix the 2 types of layouts on the same app?
[17:20] <aquarius> mhall119, cool -- I wasn't sure what was going on because I don't get to see much of this work
[17:20] <aquarius> anyway I'll shut up now :)
[17:20] <mhall119> pabluk: you mean PageStack and Tabs?
[17:21] <pabluk> mhall119: yes
[17:21] <t1mp> pabluk: it is possible but not recommended
[17:21] <aquarius> Don't mix them in the same app; the design guideliens specifically recommend against it. http://design.canonical.com/2013/03/app-patterns-explained-navigation/ has the details
[17:22] <pabluk> t1mp: ok
[17:23] <pabluk> aquarius: thanks for the link
[17:23] <t1mp> aquarius: thanks. I couldn't find the link :)
[17:24] <aquarius> t1mp, the reason I know is that I myself asked a question on G+ about it for the design team to answer, about a week ago ;) (https://plus.google.com/u/0/+StuartLangridge/posts/G8Yr3dmvVnJ)
[17:27] <t1mp> aquarius: weird, I cannot see answers from katie on that page, although you seem to reply to her comments
[17:29] <kenvandine> StateSaver is amazing!
[17:29] <aquarius> t1mp, I think she was speaking from her Canonical account, which has since been deleted.
[17:29] <aquarius> kenvandine, it is, isn't it? I love it. ;)
[17:30] <t1mp> aquarius: oh :( makes sense. but now some useful information is missing
[17:30] <t1mp> well.. I can only guess that it was useful
[17:30] <aquarius> I concur. Don't know what can be done about that :( The conclusion basically was "this is a use case that we just flat out don't cater for now, so we the design team need to think about that and work out what to do" :)
[17:32] <t1mp> aquarius: how is it done in desktop apps?
[17:32] <mhall119> btw, all of these components he's showing off are documented on http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/html5/sdk-14.04/UbuntuUI/
[17:33] <aquarius> t1mp, most platforms don't have specific design guidance saying "don't do this". (They may be wrong to do so; it might be a bad pattern. Hence me asking for a better one. :))
[17:46] <aquarius> QUESTION: can I put data-role="button" on anything? Specifically, a <button>? Or do I have to use a div? 'Cos that's not good for accessibility...
[17:46] <mhall119> http://developer.ubuntu.com/apps/html-5/tutorials/meanings-app-html5-tutorial/ is the tutorial he mentioned
[17:50] <aquarius> Ah, good. It should use a <button> ;)
[17:51] <mhall119> aquarius: file a bug :)
[17:51] <mhall119> lp:ubuntu-html5-theme
[17:51] <mhall119> to update the API docs
[17:52] <aquarius> already doing so :)
[17:54] <aquarius> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-html5-theme/+bug/1287826 filed
[17:54] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1287826 in Ubuntu HTML5 UI SDK "Button docs should call out that an actual <button> should be used" [Undecided,New]
[17:54] <mhall119> http://developer.ubuntu.com/apps/html-5/
[17:54] <aquarius> heh.
[17:55] <aquarius> I don't think I have any more questions immediately based on the video :)
[17:55] <aquarius> Ah, there was one more
[17:56] <mrjazzcat> QUESTION:  will there be a roadmap for features and releases post-14.04?
[17:56] <aquarius> QUESTION: are UbuntuUI-decorated elements reacting to click events or to touch events? Touch events don't have the 300ms delay, so they feel more native
[17:58] <aquarius> (nice, the theme is using SASS. Coolio.)
[17:59] <pabluk> QUESTION: Can we use CSS media queries with the UbuntuUI to make more responsive layouts?
[17:59] <mrjazzcat> thanks kyleN
[17:59] <aquarius> one other QUESTION, because it bit me a while ago: why does Shape use a png image rather than, say, SVG? It didn't seem to look right when I used it :(
[18:00] <aquarius> session over. thank you kyleN! Interesting stuff.
[18:00] <kyleN> mrjazzcat, you are welcome
[18:00] <kyleN> aquarius, and all, thank you
[18:00] <mhall119> aquarius: I believe daker is working on changing UbuntuShape to use SVG
[18:00] <aquarius> mhall119, ah, good, OK :)
[18:00] <aquarius> I deliberately didn't use Shape in wordbits (and felt guilty about it) precisely because it looked weird :)
[18:01] <aquarius> I wish border-radius could do unbalanced borders, then it wouldn't need anything at all
[18:11] <t1mp> aquarius: I don't know if your question was answered in the video, but the components use mouseareas for events
[18:11] <t1mp> aquarius: but I think using touchareas would be a welcome update
[18:11] <aquarius> t1mp, not in HTML they don't ;)
[18:12] <t1mp> aquarius: oops, I forgot about html
[18:12] <aquarius> unless I have completely underestimated how much work you lot are doing
[18:12] <aquarius> heh :)
[18:40] <daker> aquarius: bug #1243396
[18:40] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1243396 in Ubuntu HTML5 UI SDK "Ubuntu Shape does not scale" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1243396
[18:41] <aquarius> daker, sweet,thank you :)
[18:41] <daker> aquarius: i am still waiting for the SVG shape
[18:41] <aquarius> daker, can you border-image an svg?
[18:41] <aquarius> I've never actually tried :)
[18:41] <daker> i don't think so :(
[18:42] <daker> i am using :after
[18:44] <daker> the design team is recommending me to use a simple border-radius
[18:44] <aquarius> then it's not the ubuntu shape, though
[18:44] <aquarius> I wish css could do properly unbalanced borders and it can't :(
[18:45] <aquarius> no arbitrary beziers for us
[18:45] <daker> yeah :(
[18:45] <daker> here is the actual result http://i.imgur.com/nl4beub.png
[18:46] <aquarius> hahaha!
[18:46] <aquarius> http://jsbin.com/futovecu/1/edit
[18:46] <aquarius> svg border image
[18:46] <aquarius> works in chrome at least :)
[18:47] <aquarius> although border-image is a problem because you can't set its colour
[18:47] <aquarius> unless you use a dynamic svg or something equally horrible
[18:47]  * daker is assigning bug #1243396 to aquarius :)
[18:47] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1243396 in Ubuntu HTML5 UI SDK "Ubuntu Shape does not scale" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1243396
[18:49] <aquarius> if the design team are suggesting using border-radius, I bet you could get pretty close to the Ubuntu shape just by using two radii for an ellipse
[18:49] <aquarius> it wouldn't be perfect
[18:49] <aquarius> but offloading all the hard work to the rendering engine is a really good idea :)
[18:49] <daker> http://thecodeplayer.com/walkthrough/css3-squircles
[18:54] <aquarius> daker, hrm
[18:54] <aquarius> http://jsbin.com/taliqapu/1/edit
[18:54] <aquarius> the "ubuntu shape", from http://design.canonical.com/2013/10/indented-styles-and-the-ubuntu-shape/ is REALLY close to just being a shape with perfectly rounded corners ;)
[18:54] <aquarius> is there a better example of the Ubuntu shape?
[18:57] <daker> aquarius: example ?
[18:57] <daker> this is the one i am using http://design.canonical.com/wp-content/themes/design-blog-theme/assets/img/team-squircle.png
[18:59] <aquarius> daker, see the jsbin
[18:59] <aquarius> http://jsbin.com/taliqapu/1/edit
[19:00] <daker> i see but how about scaling ?
[19:01] <aquarius> border-radius can be a percentage...
[19:01] <aquarius> I think
[19:01]  * aquarius checks ;)
[19:03] <aquarius> daker, http://jsbin.com/taliqapu/1/edit updated to have both squircles, with one single border radius (rather than two for an ellipse)
[19:03] <aquarius> and percentage sizes.
[19:03] <aquarius> ta daaaa
[19:04] <aquarius> it's not totally perfect; the Ubuntu Shape bulges a tiny bit more on the curve
[19:04] <aquarius> but it's a really tiny bit :)
[19:05] <aquarius> actually, using ellipse radii works even better
[19:05] <daker> aquarius: can you comment on the bug report ?
[19:05] <aquarius> see http://jsbin.com/taliqapu/1/edit again :)
[19:06] <aquarius> OK, I shall add to the bug report
[19:11]  * aquarius adds comment to the bug report
[19:11] <aquarius> yay no png background image horror required :)
[19:21] <daker> \o/
[19:21] <daker> will ask Anthony to review it
[19:29] <m-b-o> hello, does anyone know how to get a decent load on a device while running autopilot tests at the same time?
[19:59] <candelibas> Hi everyone.I have installed Ubuntu SDK then I created HTML5 App.When I try to run projects it says me Starting ubuntu-html5-app-launcher --www=/home/can/projects/myfirstapp/www --inspector Failed to start program. Path or permissions wrong? ubuntu-html5-app-launcher exited with code -1
[20:00] <candelibas> I searched for the problem but I can't get the solution
[22:00] <cff> Can I use PyGTK App indicators in KDE? I want to port a GTK app indicator to KDE and it has an gtk.StatusIcon http://www.pygtk.org/pygtk2reference/class-gtkstatusicon.html#signal-gtkstatusicon--activate which when its activated in the system tray it just closes, however if I click on it and don't release it works.  Activated = 1 click with release
[22:03] <cff> I have self.icon.connect("activate", self.show_menu) when self.icon is an gtk.StatusIcon() and show_menu calls self.menu.popup(None, None, None, 0, 0) and self.timer = gobject.timeout_add(100, self.check_mouse)  which calls if not self.menu.get_window().is_visible(): return
[22:03] <cff> s/when/where
[22:22] <cff> hmm the problem seems to be with self.menu.popup(None, None, None, 0, 0)


[00:52] <Rallias> how do I tell sendmail to foreward mails over ssl port 587?
[00:58] <twb> Don't use sendmail.
[00:59] <twb> You ought to install postfix (or possibly exim4), or if it's a satellite host, possible msmtp.
[01:03] <Rallias> twb: Sendmail is the only thing that will even accept mail, and I need to foreward mail to my other email account on hotmail.
[01:08] <twb> Are you talking about sendmail-the-MTA or sendmail-the-API?
[01:08] <twb> Because /usr/sbin/sendmail(8) is *not* always sendmail-the-MTA.
[01:09] <Rallias> sendmail the mta
[01:09] <twb> In that case, you're wrong.  Plenty of MTAs accept mail.
[01:10] <Rallias> I'm not wrong.  I'm having a hard day today.
[01:17] <Rallias> I must not have been clear. Every mta but sendmail is returning undeliverable whenever I try to send a test message.
[01:19] <mike_miller> I'm trying to migrate a stock Ubuntu server instance to my own AMI(now that I've customized it). I'm following http://webkist.wordpress.com/2010/03/16/creating-an-amazon-ec2-ebs-ami-from-a-running-instance/. I get the following errors when booting the AMI: http://pastebin.com/ZvikvYGk.
[01:19] <mike_miller> any ideas?
[01:20] <mike_miller> (this is on Amazon EC2)
[01:21] <Roasted> Has anybody ever set up FreeRadius on Ubuntu? I tried through a gui with Ebox (Zentyal) but it seems to have failed, and I'd like to install it manually or with another gui fi somebody can point me to a good guide to use or a good GUI to use.
[01:21] <twb> mike_miller: AMI?
[01:22] <pmatulis> Rallias: it's a matter of configuration.  postfix can forward to another address
[01:22] <Rallias> pmatulis: Thats not my problem. My problem is that it won't even accept mail in the first place.
[01:22] <mike_miller> amazon machine image. for the purposes of helping me, just think that I rsync'd over '/' to a device, and am hitting errors when booting from the device
[01:22] <twb> Ah, right.
[01:23] <mike_miller> "ALERT!  /dev/disk/by-label/uec-rootfs does not exist.  Dropping to a shell!"is the main error, I think
[01:23] <pmatulis> Rallias: well, then it's an even more basic configuration issue then
[01:23] <twb> Roasted: ebox is the web UI recommended by ubuntu/canonical, but personally I haven't been impressed with it, nor any other web UI.  I suggest doing it from the CLI and seeing how you go.  I haven't used freeradius, but I may be able to help with generic issues related to CLI use.
[01:23] <Rallias> I just copied a working config from a different server with postfix, but it still won't work.
[01:23] <pmatulis> Rallias: maybe pastebin output to 'postconf -n' as well as the full error logs
[01:24] <twb> mike_miller: by-label is the ext2 filesystem label; it might not be correct or udev might not be updating /dev/disk/by-*/ on the fly.
[01:24] <zairo> hi. ubuntu svr 10.10. i am following this: https://help.ubuntu.com/10.04/serverguide/C/certificates-and-security.html my error msg: caught SIGTERM, shutting down
[01:24] <mike_miller> twb: https://forums.aws.amazon.com/thread.jspa?threadID=52633&tstart=-2&messageID=197585 says to run update-grub; I will try that
[01:25] <Rallias> pmatulis: let me dig up an old archive that I have.
[01:25] <twb> mike_miller: you could try passing root=/dev/X where X is something like sda1 or xda
[01:25] <twb> mike_miller: you can also type "ls /dev/disk/by-label" into the rescue shell to see what IS there
[01:25] <mike_miller> I can't see the rescue shell
[01:25] <mike_miller> or
[01:25] <mike_miller> I can see the output
[01:25] <twb> mike_miller: ok
[01:25] <mike_miller> might be able to get in somehow, but not sure
[01:26] <mike_miller> is update-grub likely to solve the issue?
[01:26] <twb> zairo: you're getting that from what command?
[01:26] <twb> mike_miller: possibly, but I doubt it
[01:27] <twb> mike_miller: update-grub tell it to use something other than root=/dev/disk/by-label/uec-rootfs
[01:27] <zairo> tail /var/log/apache2/error.log
[01:27] <mike_miller> twb: so what command should I try to fix the image up?
[01:27] <zairo> twb: i think that i am having issue with certificate and key
[01:28] <twb> zairo: that is not sufficient information.  Try pastebinning the entire error.log
[01:28] <mike_miller> twb: I'm not sure what "I've changed it to /dev/sda1 as described in the Guide:" means. Do you have some insight?
[01:28] <twb> mike_miller: OK, let me describe the boot process.
[01:29] <twb> mike_miller: the BIOS loads the bootloader (grub).  Grub loads the kernel and ramdisk.  They then use the root=/dev/XXX option grub gave them to find the root filesystem, and they mount and enter it.
[01:29] <mike_miller> where is that parameter set?
[01:29] <twb> mike_miller: grub.cfg or menu.lst, in /boot/grub/
[01:30] <mike_miller> everything is root=/dev/sda1
[01:30] <twb> mike_miller: now, EITHER grub is passing the wrong value, OR grub is passing the right value, but something is wrong (e.g. missing drivers) in the kernel/ramdisk
[01:30] <zairo> twb: only this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/564770/
[01:30] <twb> mike_miller: it's hard to diagnose because you can't actually type diagnostic commands into the rescue shell.
[01:31] <mike_miller> let me see if  I can get in
[01:31] <twb> zairo: OK, you need to work out how to make apache emit more information.  It might already be doing so in /var/log/syslog.  I'm not familiar with apache, so wait patiently for someone else.
[01:31] <twb> zairo: you can also try #httpd (the apache httpd channel)
[01:32] <zairo> twb: somehow i think this more related to ubuntu rather than apache hu2
[01:32] <twb> zairo: shrug.  You may be right.
[01:34] <zairo> twb: here's my /etc/apache2/sites-avaiable/abc.conf http://paste.ubuntu.com/564771/ i think my cert file and key file is wrong
[01:34] <zairo> step 6-8 in manual is quite confusing to me though https://help.ubuntu.com/10.04/serverguide/C/certificates-and-security.html
[01:37] <twb> zairo: http://paste.debian.net/106975/ is what I have in /etc/apache2/sites-available/default-ssl, FWIW
[01:39] <zairo> can i use the default?
[01:39] <zairo> i mean default-ssl
[01:39] <twb> I don't see why not.
[01:40] <twb> It may not be best practice, I suppose.
[01:42] <zairo> let me try using default-ssl first and see how the outcome
[01:50] <donvito2> hello why i cant install tspc on my ubuntu
[01:52] <zairo> twb: still the same error msg
[01:53] <zairo> i mean does not match server name
[01:54] <Roasted> Has anybody ever set up FreeRadius on Ubuntu? I tried through a gui with Ebox (Zentyal) but it seems to have failed, and I'd like to install it manually or with another gui fi somebody can point me to a good guide to use or a good GUI to use.
[01:58] <zairo> twb: i'll ask on channel httpd. may be a good suggestion after all. thanks anyway bro.
[03:43] <tf2ftw> i ssh-ed into my server and then lost power on my remote machine. I was in the middle of a dist upgrade. how can i check the progress of the upgrade now that im back on line with the remote?
[03:46] <patdk-lap> did you screen it?
[03:47] <tf2ftw> no
[03:47] <tf2ftw> i was typing commands from my local computer :/
[03:47] <patdk-lap> then most likely it died along with your ssh session
[03:47] <tf2ftw> shit. apt locked too
[03:47] <patdk-lap> well, see if apt is running
[03:48] <patdk-lap> if not, most likely it's just a stale lockfile
[03:48] <tf2ftw> yeah its locked
[03:48] <twb> Grr, why is tcc i386-only in lucid
[03:49] <tf2ftw> patdk-lap, thakns. how would i unlock it?
[03:49] <twb> Ah, upstream didn't grow amd64 support until .25
[03:50]  * twb grudgingly installs gcc on the varnish-flavoured reverse proxy
[04:16] <isleshocky77> When trying to install ubuntu 10.04LTS it fails on installing the grub boot loader. I've done this setup with RAID 1 following the tutorials online. I believe the problem is I was never able to mark the root partition as bootable and I just moved forward anyways. 1, why would it not let me? 2, is there a way to mark it bootable after the fact. 3, can i install grub after without redoing the whole installation?
[04:17] <twb> isleshocky77: are you using LVM?
[04:24] <isleshocky77> no
[04:24] <isleshocky77> twb: I don't believe so
[04:24] <twb> Then I duno
[04:37] <isleshocky77> Any idea why I can't turn the bootable flag on? I hit enter on it says it's doing something and then no change.
[04:38] <cjwatson> the bootable flag doesn't make much difference anyway
[04:38] <cjwatson> grub certainly doesn't care.  it's for legacy OSes
[04:38] <isleshocky77> Oh, I figured that would be the only reason why it was unable to install the grub bootloader.
[04:38] <cjwatson> DOS/Windows still cares about it, I believe
[04:39] <cjwatson> what were the error messages?
[04:39] <cjwatson> I wouldn't recommend guessing
[04:40] <isleshocky77> cjwatson: Hold on I'm in rescue mode trying to install the bootloader again.
[04:41] <isleshocky77> cjwatson: It seems to want me to partition the drive again in order to install the bootloader and is now giving me a warning up deleting things during the install. Does this sound right?
[04:42] <cjwatson> I would prefer to work from the exact messages
[04:42] <isleshocky77> cjwatson: Sorry. Is there any place I can find the error logs from the bootloader failing initially?
[04:43] <cjwatson> don't know, it depends what package management tool you were using, but the most recent messages are most likely to be easily debuggable
[04:43] <cjwatson> can you show me the output from what you're doing right now?
[04:44] <isleshocky77> cjwatson: Currently it says "The file system on /dev/md1 assigned to / has not been marked for formatting. Directories containing system files (/etc, /lib, /usr,  /var, ..) that already exist under any defined mountpoint will be deleted during the install. Do you want to return to the partitioner?"
[04:44] <cjwatson> uh
[04:44] <cjwatson> that's not rescue mode
[04:45] <cjwatson> that's an attempt to do a fresh install
[04:45] <isleshocky77> I already installed the entire system up to the bootloader. It failed installing the bootloader so I hit continue without. I then loaded the cd back up and hit rescue mode.  Then it had an option for install bootloader. Hit that and it brought me back to the partitioner.
[04:45] <isleshocky77> Yeah, that's what it sounded like to me as well.
[04:45] <cjwatson> I don't think you actually selected rescue mode properly
[04:45] <isleshocky77> If I go to rescue mode I can bring up a root shell in /dev/md1
[04:45] <cjwatson> because rescue mode completely disables the partitionere
[04:45] <cjwatson> *partitioner
[04:46] <isleshocky77> ok, so I have "Enter rescue mode ... Device to use as root file system"
[04:46] <cjwatson> pick whatever you used as your /
[04:46] <isleshocky77> /dev/md0 is supposed to be my swap with /dev/md1 as my root. So I hit /dev/md1
[04:47] <isleshocky77> So I now have a root prompt in /dev/md1
[04:47] <isleshocky77> How can I get grub installed correctly and booting up /dev/md1 ?
[04:47] <cjwatson> what are the device names for the drives that make up /dev/md1?
[04:48] <isleshocky77> /dev/sda2 and /dev/sdb2
[04:48] <cjwatson> (one thing though, if it crashed during the install, installing the boot loader isn't actually quite the last step in the installation, so your installation will have a few things a bit wrong)
[04:48] <cjwatson> grub-install /dev/sda
[04:48] <cjwatson> then if that works:
[04:48] <cjwatson> grub-install /dev/sdb
[04:49] <cjwatson> (oh, if you continued without installing a boot loader, that will have covered the last few steps in the installation, so disregard my last parenthesised comment ...)
[04:50] <isleshocky77> cjwatson: /usr/sbin/grub-setup: warn: This GTP partition has no BIOS Boot Partition embedding won't be possible!. /usr/bin/grub-setup: error: embedding is not possible, but this is required when the root device is on a RAID array or LVM volume.
[04:51] <isleshocky77> *GPT not GTP
[04:53] <isleshocky77> cjwatson: Think it might have something to do with this:
[04:53] <isleshocky77> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/partman-base/+bug/506670
[04:59] <cjwatson> OK, so you'd better go and create one of those
[04:59] <cjwatson> http://grub.enbug.org/BIOS_Boot_Partition
[04:59] <cjwatson> has instructions on creating it
[05:02]  * cjwatson -> bed
[05:05] <cjwatson> I agree 506670 is a problem though
[05:05] <DiagonalArg> Anybody up for a udev question?  I'm trying to figure out why this won't change my disk permissions: KERNEL=="md*", SUBSYSTEM=="block", ATTR{size}=="146483072", GROUP="vboxusers".
[05:11] <isleshocky77> cjwatson: Thank you very much for trying to help me and listening. Think I got it.
[07:01] <amin_> hi I need a ssh program which let me connect to server  and go through with my command even if I closed it and give my back the rest of process left when I log in again
[07:01] <ecelis> amin_: use screen from your ssh session
[07:02] <amin_> Does it do it?
[07:06] <twb> Yes.
[07:06] <twb> Or you could use nohup, dtach, or tmux.
[07:07] <twb> Screen is the most popular, though.
[07:07] <twb> e.g. ssh example.net nohup wget www/fred &
[07:07] <twb> Er, ssh example.net "nohup wget www/fred &"
[07:08] <twb> That will connect to example.net and run wget in the background, and it nohup will prevent wget aborting for lack of output terminal
[07:10] <amin_> ecelis: is there any program like screen
[07:10] <ecelis> tmux
[07:10] <ecelis> why not use screen?
[07:10] <ecelis> twb: gave you some other good options too
[07:11] <twb> I should also mention byobu, which is a user-friendly wrapper around screen.
[07:11] <twb> If you are new to screen, it is probably a good idea to use it
[07:14] <SpamapS> I just heard about tmux for the first time recently
[07:14] <SpamapS> they were talking about adding it to NetBSD since screen is GPL or something
[07:24] <lifeless> SpamapS: hey
[07:24] <lifeless> SpamapS: what was that bug you filed, api bug search being slow always
[07:27] <twb> SpamapS: right; tmux uses a "please exploit me" license
[07:48] <SpamapS> lifeless: long time ago, I think I accidentally said "give me all bugs"
[07:49] <SpamapS> lifeless: I may not have been the original reporter.. its not in my +reportedbugs
[07:49] <lifeless> SpamapS: :(
[07:50] <lifeless> do you stil have the script that reproduces it?
[07:50] <SpamapS> lifeless: possibly. standby, I'm expanding my search a bit more
[07:54] <SpamapS> lifeless: https://api.launchpad.net/1.0/bugs ... I recall it was taking > 20s
[07:54] <SpamapS> lifeless: takes 7.50s now
[07:54] <lifeless> mmm, I thought it was more specific than that
[07:54] <lifeless> anyhow, if its better, cool.
[07:56] <SpamapS> lifeless: believe it or not.. I'm grepping my irc logs ;)
[07:57]  * lifeless believes it
[08:01] <SpamapS> hah..
[08:01] <SpamapS> lifeless: this is the first thing I ever discussed in #launchpad-dev
[08:02] <lifeless> :)
[08:03] <SpamapS> lifeless: I was wrong, it was one that has gotten even better
[08:03] <SpamapS> 11:15 < SpamapS> https://api.launchpad.net/beta/bugs/?assignee=clint-fewbar
[08:03] <SpamapS> 11:15 < SpamapS> 11 seconds. :(
[08:03] <lifeless> btw, /beta/ - bad
[08:04] <lifeless>  /1.0/ or /devel/
[08:05] <lifeless> SpamapS: its still 11 seconds
[08:05] <SpamapS> yep
[08:05] <lifeless> SpamapS: and you didn't file a bug for it ?
[08:05] <SpamapS> I can't find one in my reported bugs
[08:05] <SpamapS> maybe the irclogs will tell the tale
[08:07] <SpamapS> lifeless: apparently the main result of the conversation was that you filed/"tickled" bugs that would give you better oops reports on API calls
[08:08] <lifeless> oh yes
[08:08] <lifeless> we have that now
[08:08] <lifeless> though ++oops++ doesn't work
[08:09] <lifeless> we get a header if a query genuinely oopses
[08:11] <lifeless> I don't think we do that for soft oopses
[09:04] <JenniferB2> Hi folks.. we have ubuntu server on a separate machine.. ssh using a login the specied login and password.. create a user for myself.. added to sudoers and gave a password... su myusername and enter password... all fine.. but my command line starts with a dollar $ and doesn't behave the same as the username I was given.. why not ? how can I fix this ?
[09:05] <SpamapS> JenniferB2: su to a user name does not give you the env of the user completely.
[09:06] <SpamapS> JenniferB2: try 'su - username'
[09:06] <JenniferB2> No directory, logging in with HOME=/
[09:06] <JenniferB2> $
[09:07] <SpamapS> JenniferB2: ahh, how did you create the new user?
[09:09] <JenniferB2> sudo adduser
[09:09] <JenniferB2> not right ?
[09:10] <SpamapS> that should be ok
[09:10] <SpamapS> JenniferB2: somehow your user didn't get assigned a home dir
[09:11] <JenniferB2> yeah.. it appears so
[09:12] <JenniferB2> noithing under home
[09:12] <JenniferB2> why not ? :(
[09:12] <JenniferB2> try again ?
[09:12] <SpamapS> yeah I suppose
[09:12] <DigitalFlux> Hi Guys
[09:12] <DigitalFlux> I'm writing an init script for an app that i have
[09:12] <DigitalFlux> Should i go with upstart method on Ubuntu 10.04 ?
[09:12] <DigitalFlux> The docs at upstart.ubuntu.com mentions some stuff that looks like it didn't land on 10.04 ..
[09:13] <DigitalFlux> I have upstart 0.6.5-7
[09:13] <SpamapS> my brain is a little bit fried so not really able to think right now. ;)
[09:13] <SpamapS> DigitalFlux: upstart has changed very little since 0.6.5-7
[09:13] <JenniferB2> SpamapS: sudo -s ; sudo adduser jen ; sudo adduser jen admin ; sudo passwd jen ?
[09:13] <twb> SpamapS: like in that silence-of-the-lambs sequel
[09:13] <DigitalFlux> SpamapS: Hmm, i see i have no initctl command
[09:13] <DigitalFlux> no /etc/inittab ..
[09:14] <SpamapS> twb: nolittle brain, fried ;)
[09:14] <SpamapS> err
[09:14] <twb> DigitalFlux: that's old stuff
[09:14] <SpamapS> twb: take 2.. action.. "no that was a little brain, fried"
[09:14] <twb> DigitalFlux: what are you trying to do?
[09:14] <DigitalFlux> twb: Well, first of all, where can i write the events ?
[09:15] <twb> DigitalFlux: here's a simple upstartization example: http://paste.debian.net/107012/
[09:15] <twb> DigitalFlux: in 10.04 they're in /etc/init/
[09:15] <DigitalFlux> Aha ! those are commands not config file directives ..
[09:15] <JenniferB2> SpamapS: now it works.. I logged in as sudo -s ... earlier I did sudo adduser
[09:15] <JenniferB2> from the non-root account
[09:16] <DigitalFlux> Actually they are config file parameters but they should go under /etc/init too :)
[09:16] <DigitalFlux> I thought that /etc/init files contains just the actions
[09:16] <DigitalFlux> and the events should be written somewhere else
[09:18] <DigitalFlux> So that initctl command is kinda deprecated ?
[09:19] <SpamapS> DigitalFlux: no its not at all
[09:34] <DigitalFlux> SpamapS: well, i can't find it with 0.6.5-7 with Ubuntu 10.04
[09:34] <DigitalFlux> SpamapS: should i install an additional package or something ?
[09:34] <SpamapS> DigitalFlux: what can't you find?
[09:42] <DigitalFlux> SpamapS: the initctl command
[09:43] <DigitalFlux> OK it is there :)
[09:43] <SpamapS> DigitalFlux: if you don't have /sbin/initctl .. your system is broken
[09:43]  * DigitalFlux dump me
[09:45] <twb> SpamapS: ah, sorry, I was thinking that was a binary that upstart didn't provide
[09:48] <SpamapS> pretty important to the boot
[09:48] <twb> Well, its aliases like "start" are
[09:49] <SpamapS> initctl is too.. used to init some of the events
[09:49] <SpamapS> anyway, I'm much to sleepy to think about this
[09:49]  * SpamapS passes out
[09:50] <twb> Yeah, because there's no event -> initctl symlink
[11:07] <Daviey> oh joy.
[12:56] <atretes> Is there any eucalyptus experience here?
[12:58] <atretes> I'm currently setting up a cloud base on 10.04 and I've downloaded a repackaged image from ubuntu uec but when I launch it into the cloud and attempt to ssh into it I get 'No route to host'?
[13:00] <rkhshm1> hi all
[13:00] <rkhshm1> I'm trying to build libaxis for eucalyptus and i get tihs error http://pastie.org/1544704
[13:01] <rkhshm1> i would be grateful if anyone can give me some leads...
[13:04] <rkhshm1> anyone here guys ?
[13:11] <knxville> Do you recommend using a custom font for a banner or simple make a banner picture with the font in it?
[13:11] <knxville> cause I have trouble using the custom font in my .css file.. Is there a way to see what "name" the server have registrered it under
[13:25] <qman__> knxville, the server doesn't care what fonts you use, only the client rendering the web page
[13:26] <qman__> as such, only fonts which the client has installed will work for that client
[13:27] <qman__> if you want to use a font that you don't expect people visiting your web page to already have, you should make an image instead
[13:27] <knxville> Alright! :)
[13:28] <pmatulis> rkhshm1 + atretes: try #ubuntu-cloud
[14:01] <RoAkSoAx> morning all
[14:03] <JamesPage> RoAkSoAx: morning
[14:04] <zul> hey RoAkSoAx
[14:05] <RoAkSoAx> how's it going today guys?
[14:06] <pmatulis> fine
[14:07] <JamesPage> RoAkSoAx: good thanks - any you?
[14:09] <RoAkSoAx> JamesPage: with a flu... but good ;) thanks!
[14:09] <JamesPage> nice :-)
[14:20] <Roasted> anybody ever play with freeradius, or zentyal?
[14:22] <atretes> pmatulis: thanks will try it
[14:34] <Err404NotFound> i have a server with nfs mount in fstab, how do i assure that even if there are any issue in mounting it, server still boots up
[14:35] <patdk-wk> with I knew
[14:36] <patdk-wk> using the _netdev option is suppost to do that
[14:36] <patdk-wk> but I can't get it to work, for me atleast
[14:36] <Err404NotFound> hmmm
[14:45] <Roasted> am I fighting a losing battle trying to set up freeradius?
[14:46] <Roasted> I feel like I've been on every google and linux site that exists as well as a series of linux/server based chats, all without anybody saying oh yeah I know how to do this.
[14:57] <alvin> Err404NotFound: subscribe to bug 275451, bug 504224 and bug 384347
[14:57] <alvin> Oh, he's gone already.
[14:59] <Err404NotFound> If i am looking to have domain.com, www.domain.com, and www3.domain.com to be on https, i need a UCC SSL, right/
[15:00] <alvin> Err404NotFound: For your previous question: subscribe to bug 275451, bug 504224 and bug 384347
[15:01] <Err404NotFound> alvin: i used noauto in fstab, and used rc.local to mount the nfs volume
[15:02] <alvin> Is that how far Ubuntu has come? Using rc.local to mount volumes... (I don't blame you though)
[15:09] <JamesPage> hggdh: we need to talk minimal server install size for natty
[15:09] <hggdh> JamesPage: let's do it
[15:10] <JamesPage> OK so the test case say 'less than 500MB'
[15:11] <Roasted> radius
[15:11] <Roasted> anybody
[15:11] <hggdh> JamesPage: yes. I found it -- on manual install -- to be 529 M
[15:12] <JamesPage> hggdh: so todays amd64 ISO minimal install was 602MB - was the 529MB a i386 or amd64 install
[15:13] <JamesPage> todays i386 was 577MB for reference
[15:14] <RoAkSoAx> win 9
[15:14] <RoAkSoAx> arggh
[15:14] <hggdh> JamesPage: weird. an i386 was around 519, amd64 529
[15:14] <JamesPage> so a few questions then;
[15:14] <JamesPage> a) are we installing the right kernel - its passing in the tests so I would assume so
[15:15] <hggdh> agreed
[15:15] <JamesPage> b) that makes the testing overlay huge! Maybe the python libraries we are using are doing something odd.
[15:16] <hggdh> it might be. A way of findinf out our direct overhead is to manually install the minimal, measure, and then install our packages and measure again
[15:16] <hggdh> then run the tests and measure again
[15:19] <hggdh> JamesPage: and now we save the d-i syslog, one more M in the pot
[15:21] <JamesPage> The overlay installs the following packages; openssh-server python-couchdb subunit python-subunit python-junitxml
[15:22] <JamesPage> hggdh: have you got a handy minimal install kicking around?
[15:22] <Roasted> Has anybody used a GUI called "dialupadmin" for use with FreeRadius? If so, please inquire.
[15:22] <JenniferB2> Hi folks.. I am trying to ssh to a server and have the username and password already filled in as part of the url... what is the syntax and command ? >> ssh<EMAIL_ADDRESS>... I thought that was it.. but I am being logged in as user jen:mypassword and asked for a password
[15:23] <hggdh> JamesPage: no, not now (had to reinstall)
[15:24] <JamesPage> OK - I'll install one now....
[15:24]  * patdk-wk notes ssh != wget, ssh doesn't use url's
[15:24] <patdk-wk> ssh<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[15:24] <patdk-wk> type in password
[15:25] <hggdh> JamesPage: and right now I am running some SRU tests on Hardy under KVM, so my laptop is, ah, busy
[15:26] <JamesPage> hggdh: whats killing your performance at the moment? bonnie++?
[15:27] <cjwatson> JamesPage: do you have the d-i syslog from that minimal install?
[15:27] <hggdh> cjwatson: they are all saved now :-)
[15:27] <cjwatson> hggdh: URL?
[15:27] <JamesPage> cjwatson - yep - finding one now
[15:28] <JamesPage> cjwatson: http://hudson.qa.ubuntu-uk.org/job/natty-server-i386_minimal-virtual/ws/66/test-results/d-i-syslog.log/*view*/
[15:29] <JamesPage> JenniferB2: if you are trying to avoid having to interact i.e. type in a password to login to the server I would suggest you setup key based authentication.
[15:29] <hggdh> heh JamesPage was faster by a *lot*
[15:29] <hggdh> cjwatson: full logs for this run: http://<IP_ADDRESS>/job/natty-server-i386_minimal-virtual/66/artifact/66/test-results/
[15:31] <JamesPage> hggdh: must fix that annoying bug where all workspaces contain all every test result - its no longer required....
[15:31] <hggdh> JamesPage: yes... I found it the hard way, when my /var went backrupt
[15:32] <JamesPage> JenniferB2: take a look at the SSH Keys section of the server guide - https://help.ubuntu.com/10.04/serverguide/C/openssh-server.html
[15:32] <JamesPage> hggdh: oops - its on my todo list just have not had time.....
[15:33] <cjwatson> your testing overlay certainly pulls in a non-trivial amount of cruft
[15:34] <hggdh> cjwatson: yes. But even on a manual install it was 19/29M over
[15:34] <cjwatson> yeah, there's definitely unnecessary stuff here
[15:34] <hggdh> i.e., no hudson overhead
[15:34] <cjwatson> I'm sure you can live without language-selector-common, say
[15:34] <cjwatson> or indeed language-pack-en
[15:35] <Roasted> Has anybody used a GUI called "dialupadmin" for use with FreeRadius? If so, please inquire.
[15:36] <hggdh> cjwatson, JamesPage: for reference, this is bug 712145
[15:36] <cjwatson> yeah
[15:36] <cjwatson> I'll have a poke at the preseeding after meetings
[15:38] <patdk-wk> heh, upx :)
[15:43] <ChrisBuchholz> Hello. How would i change the ssh port 22 to port 443 on my 10.04.1 server?
[15:45] <compdoc> 443 is an https port, no?
[15:45] <RoyK> ChrisBuchholz: see ListenAddress in sshd_config (5)
[15:45] <ChrisBuchholz> and are there any security vulnabilities involved in doing this? I need this because a few of the places where i use wifi frequently only have port 80 and 443 open, so i cannot ssh to it to create an ssh tunnel there
[15:45] <RoyK> compdoc: normally used for https, yes
[15:46] <ChrisBuchholz> compdoc: yes, but read ^^
[15:46] <RoyK> ChrisBuchholz: should work
[15:46] <ChrisBuchholz> RoyK: i will check it out
[15:46] <RoyK> ChrisBuchholz: you can start one manually too, sshd -p 443
[15:47] <ChrisBuchholz> RoyK: but wouldnt i need to let openssh on the server accept ssh requests on port 443, no?
[15:47] <RoyK> ChrisBuchholz: sshd is the ssh server, so yes :P
[15:48] <ChrisBuchholz> RoyK: oh, i just read `ssh -p 443`;)
[15:50]  * RoyK hands ChrisBuchholz his glasses :P
[15:50] <ChrisBuchholz> RoyK: would there be any vulnabilities involved? Do i need to remove 443 as a https port or something?
[15:51] <RoyK> different processes can't listen to the same port
[15:51] <ChrisBuchholz> and what will i sacrifise by doing this?
[15:51] <RoyK> but no, it shouldn't be any security problems with it
[15:51] <RoyK> gotta go - bbl
[15:51] <ChrisBuchholz> bye
[15:55] <ChrisBuchholz> okay, now it works on port 443.
[15:55] <compdoc> its not likely that anyone would try to connect to 443 with an ssh client - should be safe
[15:56] <ChrisBuchholz> compdoc: sounds great. I checked today that 443 is open, so i hoped im not mistaken
[15:56] <compdoc> you dont run apache?
[15:56] <compdoc> httpd?
[15:57] <ChrisBuchholz> now i just need to get irssi to use my SOCKS-proxy, which uses the ssh-tunnel, and i should be able to use irssi in school
[15:57] <ChrisBuchholz> compdoc: yeah, i run apache
[15:57] <compdoc> good luck - gtg
[15:57] <ChrisBuchholz> stupid university-it-administrators
[15:57] <ChrisBuchholz> okay, bye
[16:09] <EtienneG> kirkland, as you saw, we're getting busy with likewise
[16:09] <EtienneG> we'll beat the thing into shape, promised
[16:14] <kirkland> EtienneG: nice ;-)
[16:16] <ChrisBuchholz> I just noticed, that now i have added the "ListenAdresse <IP_ADDRESS>:443" to my sshd_config, and i now can ssh'e on port 443, ssh on port 22 doesnt work, even though sshd_config still have "port 22"
[16:16] <ChrisBuchholz> Isnt it possible to have both applied?
[16:17] <shauno> I believe you should be able to have two Port lines, but without the :443 on ListenAddress
[16:17] <kirkland> RoAkSoAx: uploaded powernap 2.3 last night
[16:23] <RoAkSoAx> kirkland: yeah saw it!! thanks ;)
[16:28] <zul> EtienneG: good because the person who tested is gone ;)
[16:30] <EtienneG> zul, who was that?
[16:30] <zul> EtienneG: ttx afaik
[16:31] <ttx> ... and it was a bit painful ;)
[16:31] <ttx> that said, last time I looked, it was owned by Likewise and proxied by the Desktop team
[16:31] <EtienneG> ttx, I've got a minion doing it
[16:33] <zul> EtienneG: huzzah for minions
[16:33] <EtienneG> talking about minion, here he is
[16:34] <ehw> hey now
[16:34] <EtienneG> kirkland, ttx, zul, be nice to ehw, I have the poor guy install Windows and stuff
[16:34] <zul> muhahahhahahhahaa
[16:34] <highvoltage> where do you get these... minions? I want ones too :(
[16:34] <ehw> 7 years win-free and now I'm elbow deep in ads :(
[16:35] <EtienneG> highvoltage, that's the thing: I don't get them, they come to me!
[16:35] <EtienneG> highvoltage, btw, just curious, are you in Sherbrooke these days?
[16:35] <ehw> (or get volunteered by their managers)
[16:36] <highvoltage> EtienneG: yep, I am indeed!
[16:36] <ttx> Ah I remember that. Did it once, saved it in a VM
[16:36] <EtienneG> highvoltage, cool!  Welcome, my new compatriot!
[16:36] <zul> heh i amost went to school in sherbrooke
[16:36] <ttx> so that I didn't have to set up ADS ever again
[16:37] <EtienneG> it's a nice city
[16:37] <highvoltage> EtienneG: :)
[16:37]  * highvoltage -> Lunch
[16:37] <EtienneG> same here, off for lunch
[16:39] <JamesPage> hggdh: my minimal amd64 virtual install is only 466MB!
[16:40] <hggdh> JamesPage: now I am confused
[16:41] <hggdh> JamesPage: I will repeat it
[16:47] <JamesPage> hggdh: I did the F4/Minimal virtual install option on the first boot menu - that was right?
[16:47] <ChrisBuchholz> shauno: can you further describe how to do it?
[16:47] <JamesPage> hggdh: overlay looks to be +44MB installed
[16:47] <hggdh> JamesPage: yes
[16:47] <hggdh> I will repeat now
[16:51] <ChrisBuchholz> shauno: okay, it seemed i could just ditch the ListenAddresse and just specify two Ports
[16:52] <DaBeast> How can i see on how much ghz the server is running?
[16:52] <JamesPage> hggdh: it could be that the autotest preseed does not disable kernel headers - 96MB installed - which would get us to about the right ballpark
[16:53] <JamesPage> hggdh: whereas the preseed on the ISO does disable installation of headers....
[16:53] <hggdh> JamesPage: hah!
[16:53] <hggdh> so it is a fluke...
[16:53] <JamesPage> hggdh: may just need a preseed template change then!
[16:53] <hggdh> aye
[17:03] <RoAkSoAx> win 2
[17:03] <RoAkSoAx> arg
[17:04] <Roasted> freeradius. anybody.
[17:13] <cjwatson> JamesPage: where do the autotest preseeds live?
[17:13] <cjwatson> JamesPage: I would like to be able to modify them when I change CD preseeds, if possible
[17:13] <cjwatson> JamesPage: I think we should remove language-selector-common and language-pack-en from the minimalvm profile as well - do you agree?
[17:15] <JamesPage> cjwatson: the preseeds are templated in the ubuntu-server-iso-testing project
[17:15] <JamesPage> cjwatson: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-server-iso-testing-dev/ubuntu-server-iso-testing/trunk
[17:15] <JamesPage> cjwatson: however at the moment any preseed change needs a re-package of the project; this is not great.
[17:16] <cjwatson> as in an upload to natty?
[17:16] <JamesPage> cjwatson: I have it on my TODO list to put the test metadata including the preseed templates into a separate branch so make this easier to manage
[17:16] <JamesPage> cjwatson: no - its PPA managed at the moment
[17:18] <JamesPage> cjwatson: not sure about removing  language-selector-common and language-pack-en from minimalvm profile; are they completely superfluous in a minimal install?
[17:20] <cjwatson> I think so
[17:20] <cjwatson> language-selector-common is so that you can determine which language-support packages to install, and they're mostly desktop
[17:21] <cjwatson> actually, given the current preseeding, it's a bug that it's installed
[17:21] <cjwatson> I suppose language-pack-en is fairly harmless to keep, and might be slightly useful in cases where C isn't the same as en_US
[17:21] <patdk-wk> my servers installed via 10.04 minimal have 4 language packs installed, nothing depends on them
[17:21] <cjwatson> it's under a megabyte anyway
[17:22]  * patdk-wk wonders why language-pack-gnome-en(-base) is installed
[17:22] <cjwatson> I'm more worried about l-s-common pulling in half the lower desktop stack
[17:22] <cjwatson> patdk-wk: didn't seem to be in the natty log JamesPage provided
[17:22] <patdk-wk> ya, this is a 10.04 install :)
[17:22] <cjwatson> so I assume that's been fixed
[17:22] <patdk-wk> just seening what I'm currently on my servers :)
[17:22] <JamesPage> OK suggest we remove language-selector-common but keep language-pack-en
[17:22] <JamesPage> (as its so small anyway)
[17:23] <cjwatson> do you know the fix you need for headers?
[17:23] <patdk-wk> hmm, on 10.04 it's hard of ubuntu-standard? changed in natty?
[17:23] <JamesPage> yep - just picked it from the preseed on the iso image itself.
[17:23] <cjwatson> no, language-pack-gnome-en has never been part of ubuntu-standard
[17:23] <patdk-wk> no, language-select-common
[17:24] <cjwatson> oh, yes, that used to be in standard
[17:24] <cjwatson> JamesPage: lp:~ubuntu-cdimage/debian-cd/ubuntu data/natty/preseed/ might be generally more convenint
[17:24] <cjwatson> *convenient
[17:25] <JamesPage> thanks for the pointer.
[17:28] <NoiseEee> im on ubuntu server 10.04, i've set a static IP via "/etc/network/interfaces" properly, and its been great.  then without word, reboot nor warning, I was just given a DHCP address.  I've since done a " /etc/init.d/networking restart" and I'm back with my specific IP, but any idea how that happened??
[17:30] <RoyK> NoiseEee: if for some reason the dhcp client is started (manually), it'll ask for an IP and override whatever's set
[17:31] <RoyK> but there is no way ubuntu will start that unless you tell it to do so
[17:33] <NoiseEee> yeah i would figure as much :\
[17:43] <RoAkSoAx> kirkland: still around?
[17:46] <JamesPage> hggdh: I can pickup the preseed template update tomorrow if you like
[17:46] <cjwatson> JamesPage,hggdh: pkgsel uploaded, should get rid of language-selector-common
[17:47] <hggdh> JamesPage: if you do not mind, thank you, I am in the middle os the kernel SRU tests, and figuring out all the multiple issues on them :-(
[17:47] <hggdh> cjwatson: thank you very much, sir
[17:47] <JamesPage> hggdh: will do first thing
[17:47] <hggdh> JamesPage: IOU, dear sir
[17:48] <JamesPage> cjwatson: thankyou!
[18:00] <kirkland> RoAkSoAx: yo
[18:01] <RoAkSoAx> kirkland: is this what you were thinking of? http://me.roaksoax.com/Screenshot.png
[18:03] <Roasted> FREERADIUSSSSSSSSSSS
[18:04] <RoAkSoAx> Roasted: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=151781
[18:04] <RoAkSoAx> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=151782
[18:04] <Roasted> been there
[18:04] <Roasted> and there
[18:04] <Roasted> weeeeeeeeeeee
[18:19] <NightDragon> quick question -- is there software out there similar to deviantart's propriatary stuff that would allow image hosting/tagging/etc?
[18:20] <Roasted> If I wanted to just launch OpenLDAP on Ubuntu, how would I do it? In synaptic I see ldap-utils but not openldap in particular. Curious if that's it or not
[18:27] <EtienneG> Roasted, look for slapd instead
[18:27] <EtienneG> not obvious, I know
[18:32] <Roasted> why do you sya that EtienneG
[18:32] <soupdegrace> Hello! I'm trying to build php 5.3.5 from source but I'm having some problems...
[18:33] <EtienneG> Roasted, if you want the OpenLDAP *server*, look for slapd in synaptic.
[18:33] <EtienneG> that's the name of the package
[18:34] <Roasted> oh! I gotcha. I thought slapd was an atlernative to openldap. My bad.
[18:40] <Roasted> EtienneG, I'm not seeing it in 10.04. Is it only in 10.10 repos or something?
[18:42] <EtienneG> Roasted, it's there, look carefully!
[18:43] <EtienneG> "slapd" is the package name
[18:46] <zul> so yeah....mysqlclient fun
[18:46] <bcessa> hi there, any one knows about some docs or stuff to get nginx + php-fpm working with PHP 5.3.2-1ubuntu4.7 on a 10.04 server, I keep getting some bad gateway errors
[18:46] <SpamapS> zul: I'm just wondering if this has happened to any other libraries.
[18:46] <zul> SpamapS: it probably has
[18:47] <SpamapS> bcessa: as I understand it, the fpm that was included in 5.3.3 and earlier was fairly buggy
[18:47] <SpamapS> zul: so making the soname libmysqlclient.so.16.1.0 would at least allow us to move forward w/o recompiling the whole world..
[18:48] <zul> SpamapS: possibly we will have to test it again
[18:48] <bcessa> oh, and any ideas on how to make it work properly? this apparently random bad gateway erros are really getting old quickly :/
[18:49] <zul> SpamapS: but this is starting to give me the hebbie jebbies
[18:50] <SpamapS> bcessa: You could try backporting the 5.3.4 package from natty, or try compiling the upstream fpm.
[18:50] <SpamapS> zul: I think we need to give mysql a chance to respond more formally.
[18:50] <SpamapS> That may also have been a poorly informed bug triager.
[18:50] <zul> SpamapS: agreed
[18:50] <bcessa> ok, looking into it, thnx
[18:50] <zul> can you open up a bug agabout it
[18:51] <SpamapS> zul: yeah I wanted to wait a few business hours to see if there was a response before doing so
[18:51] <SpamapS> zul: mostly because that one is very highly rated on google searches for the error string
[18:51] <zul> SpamapS: maybe talk to jpugh about it
[18:51] <SpamapS> hehe.. yeah.. Oracle is going to say "see! just let us manage every ubuntu user's mysql.. we know better" ..
[18:52] <SpamapS> and we're going to *laugh* *hard* and *loudly*
[18:53] <zul> SpamapS: i mean he might have a contact that might be able to do something about it
[18:55] <SpamapS> true
[18:58] <RoyK> bcessa_: apt-get source the package, download the original source, copy the debian/ directory into the original source, dpkg-buildpackage
[18:58] <RoyK> bcessa_: apt-get source the package, download the original source, copy the debian/ directory from the ubuntu source into the original source, dpkg-buildpackage
[19:00] <bcessa_> RoyK amm let me give it a try
[19:00] <SpamapS> zul: I thought we had 5.3.4 merged into natty already
[19:01] <SpamapS> RoyK: thats going to get ugly actually.. there are a ton of patches in debian/patches
[19:01] <zul> nope 5.3.3
[19:01] <SpamapS> that have been applied upstream
[19:02] <RoyK> SpamapS: for that particular package?
[19:02] <RoyK> SpamapS: anyway - if building a package, it's easy to roll back
[19:02] <RoyK> far easier than if installing from source
[19:02] <SpamapS> RoyK: php5 ... yes.. php5 is a cherry picking machine
[19:03] <RoyK> bcessa_: are you having problems with the current install?
[19:03] <RoyK> if no, don't upgrade
[19:03] <SpamapS> the fpm we shipped in lucid is really broken..
[19:03] <SpamapS> RoyK: you may want to scroll back. He's having lots of issues w/ fpm.. most are known I'm sure.
[19:04] <Roasted> EtienneG, hey you still out there?
[19:04] <RoyK> SpamapS: wouldn't it be a good idea to fix it, then? an LTS release should, at least in theory, be somewhat stable.....
[19:05] <zul> SpamapS: im thinking now punting it into universe
[19:15] <SpamapS> RoyK: right, the fix has been at least discussed to backport the entire FPM module from 5.3.4 into the lucid php5 package...
[19:17] <soupdegrace> crapfuck
[19:18] <Pici> soupdegrace: Please mind your language here.
[19:19] <soupdegrace> But.. but.. my Ubuntu Server just a launched a swarm of nanobots against me.
[19:19] <soupdegrace> They look serious too
[19:21] <soupdegrace> *Argh* they are ... turning ... my anatomy into .. grey goo
[19:23] <soupdegrace> I'm melting over here! Just because I tried to build php5.3.5 from sources
[19:24] <soupdegrace> Yes, my defence implants are starting to counter attack...
[19:24] <soupdegrace> Whee - take that anti matter grenade, Ubuntu Server!
[19:25] <SpamapS> zul: yeah, given http://bugs.mysql.com/bug.php?id=59106 too .. to universe it goes
[19:25] <soupdegrace> Phew, that was a close one
[19:25] <soupdegrace> Need to replace the server tho
[19:26] <SpamapS> soupdegrace: Maybe also replace some of your meds?
[19:26] <NoiseEee> hi folks, if i'm planning on making a folder on my Ubuntu Server system available to Windows, is it just "apt-get install samba" or is there something in addition i need?
[19:26] <soupdegrace> My medichines? Not my precious medichines!
[19:27] <SpamapS> NoiseEee: you'll need to share the folder .. if its permanent you'll probably want to add it to /etc/samba/smb.conf
[19:27] <NoiseEee> SpamapS: gotcha.  but still, "samba" is the only package i need to install to get this up and running?
[19:28] <soupdegrace> whatEVAH
[19:29] <SpamapS> NoiseEee: if you just use basic user auth yes it should be pretty simple.
[19:29] <NoiseEee> thanks SpamapS
[19:52] <Roasted> has anybody tinkered with openldap on ubuntu?
[19:55] <SpamapS> Roasted: its a popular use case.. covered well in the server guide
[19:55] <SpamapS> !server guide
[19:55] <SpamapS> !serverguide
[19:58] <_Techie_> does anybody here have experience with linksys wireless N products, routers or modems?
[20:01] <Roasted> SpamapS, do you know if there's a way in openldap to suck up the contents of an MS Ldap user base?
[20:02] <_ruben> i'll add ldap to my todo list again once support is there to store public keys in it and have sshd use em
[20:03] <_ruben> native support that is, don't feel like doing my own patching
[20:04] <SpamapS> _ruben: thats what kerberos is for
[20:05] <mfraz74> I've only been running Ubuntu server for a little over a month now, but how do I know when after doing an update that the server needs rebooting?
[20:08] <_ruben> SpamapS: you mean like SSO and stuff like that? i'm not fond of tieing my linux boxen into the corporate AD
[20:08] <RoyK> mfraz74: it'll tell you during login
[20:09] <mfraz74> RoyK: That's what I thought, but I've done kernel updates and not had a notification
[20:09] <_ruben> SpamapS: and won't work for "outside" access
[20:09] <RoyK> SpamapS: kerberos is the old three-headed dog that guards the entrance to Hades
[20:10] <RoyK> mfraz74: log out, and then in, if the intro screen doesn't show "recommended reboot", don't worry
[20:11] <SpamapS> _ruben: kerberos works fine w/o AD. The outside access problem of kerberos is indeed one that requires some thought.. IIRC there are ways to make it work w/o exposing your KDC's to the net and w/o requiring extra auth layers.. but I forget them at the moment.
[20:13] <_ruben> i guess the "standard" option would be to use a nfs share for /home which would hold your keys .. but i'm no fan of nfs (for this purpose) either .. yes, i'm picky ;)
[20:24] <NoiseEee> hi folks, don't know if i should take this to #samba, but for the life of me, I cannot get samba to recognize the workgroup name i've given in smb.conf
[20:25] <NoiseEee> i'm always showing up in Windows under "WORKGROUP" which was the default... even after restarting smbd over and over
[20:25] <NoiseEee> [global]   workgroup = NEWTHING
[20:25] <Roasted> has anybody set up openldap before? I'm wondering how long the SASL/EXTERNAL authentication process takes. IT's been running for quite a while.....
[20:26] <RoyK> NoiseEee: windows will cache that for a while
[20:26] <RoyK> iirc ipconfig /registerdns will reset it
[20:26] <NoiseEee> RoyK: It's even showing up that way when I'm browsing the "Windows Network" from another Ubuntu desktop box
[20:27] <markatto> I was installing cacti, and I accidentally selected "apache" instead of "apache2" in the automagic setup scripts
[20:27] <markatto> I have tried a remove/purge and reinstall, but every time it tries to install it for apache 1.x
[20:27] <RoyK> NoiseEee: sorry, no idea
[20:28] <lenios> markatto, try removing apache and installing apache2
[20:29] <markatto> lenios: apache2 is installed
[20:29] <markatto> i will check if it tried to install apache
[20:30] <markatto> lenios: thank you, that seemed to do the trick!
[20:31] <lenios> :)
[20:31]  * markatto grubles about too much "magic" in his packages
[20:32] <SpamapS> zul: http://bugs.mysql.com/bug.php?id=60061
[20:33] <SpamapS> zul: a response to that bug (or both of the linked bugs) is required before we go anywhere with libmysqlclient from 5.5
[20:34] <zul> SpamapS: cool i just subscribed to it
[20:38] <pmatulis> is it possible to have a server request a dhcp lease upon cable connection like netwok-manager does on the desktop?
[20:40] <pmatulis> dbus script perhaps?
[20:47] <lenios> if there's no cable, isn't interface down?
[20:47] <pmatulis> lenios: i suppose
[20:48] <lenios> you must be able to force dhcient on ifup then
[20:51] <_ruben> doesn't dhclient do that by itself already ?
[20:54] <lenios> actually, i think it does
[20:55] <zul> mathiaz: hey
[20:55] <mathiaz> zul: hello!
[21:19] <robbiew> RoAkSoAx: well done on the indicator
[21:19] <RoAkSoAx> robbiew: hehe thanks!
[21:25] <clayd> I think i am missing something.  I have set up a apache server with php on ubuntu 10.04.  i have also installed postfix as i am under the impression i need that in order for php to send mail.  for some reason i still can not.  any thoughts on were to look for something the check?  sorry for being so open ended.
[21:29] <mrmist> Check to see if you can send email outside of php. That should at least narrow it down to which component.
[21:30] <clayd> i will give it a try
[21:30] <_Techie_> Doesn't php use sendmail to send over postfix
[21:31] <clayd> i think sendmail is installed when you install postfix
[21:31] <clayd> i think
[21:31] <_Techie_> Quite possibly,  but it never hurt to install it just incase
[21:34] <mrmist> postfix is a sendmail replacement, it fudges the sendmail exe for compatibility
[21:34] <clayd> i think my issue is in my postfix configuration
[21:37] <mrmist> /var/log/mail.* might give you some clues as to what is wrong
[21:38] <clayd> warning: unable to look up public/pickup: No such file or directory
[21:41] <intel352> hey guys, can anyone suggest a good solution to ensure that a mount bind exists on reboot for chrooted environments (virtual hosting)? the chroots are created via a shell script, so it would be best to avoid having to add entries to fstab (or similar)
[21:42] <mrmist> clayd: anything relevant on this page? http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=666018
[21:44] <metric> hello
[21:45] <metric> can anyone help me get CVSD working?
[21:46] <lirakis> metric, have you heard of git?
[21:46] <lirakis> serious question.. not trying to be a jerk
[21:47] <metric> lirakis, yes, I have also heard of svn :P
[21:47] <metric> problem is I have a repo with like 50 projects totally roughly 20K lines of code
[21:47] <lirakis> ok
[21:48] <metric> and I need to move it from my windows server 2003 to ubuntu server and thought I installed everything correctly but when I do a "netstat -tap" its not listeneing
[21:49] <lirakis> i havent set up a cvs server... ever  ... and an svn one in ages .. so im sorry i cant help
[21:49] <lirakis> metric, do logs show anything?
[21:49] <lirakis> errors, config issues etc.
[21:50] <metric> which logs should I check?
[21:50] <lirakis> whew...  ...
[21:50] <lirakis> /var/log/ .... messages .... cvsd    ?
[21:50] <metric> I've never used linux for anything difficult :P
[21:51] <metric> give me a sec
[21:53] <metric> lirakis, I got a couple errors, but nothing related to CVS
[21:55] <metric> hmm I just tried to do a local checkout and it says no CVSROOT is specified
[21:57] <metric> lirakis, i have to go, I'm gonna try again, thanks for the help so far
[21:58] <lirakis> whew ... dodged that bullet
[22:01] <AtomicSpark> Has anyone used/seen/heard of FOSS software that can interact with HP's Lights Out management or that can poll some of the health things on the server? Like check to see if any hardware has failed, etc.
[22:02] <clayd> just wondering does a lamp server need postfix or sendmail in order to send mail?
[22:02] <AtomicSpark> Yes.
[22:02] <AtomicSpark> LAMP only includes apache, mysql, and fastcgi (php)
[22:03] <AtomicSpark> (and their proper respective package names)
[22:03] <clayd> thanks.
[22:03] <stgraber> AtomicSpark: I don't know of any FOSS one, though the one shipped on the CD by HP usually works fine and can quite easily be integrated with nagios or similar monitoring system
[22:04] <AtomicSpark> stgraber: I was thinking of adding an "icon" to byobu or something simular.
[22:04] <AtomicSpark> I should have checked if the cd came with a linux binary or some such.
[22:04] <mrmist> clayd: you can use either.
[22:05] <clayd> what is that?
[22:05] <clayd> wait... sorry
[22:05] <clayd> my brain is slowly crapping out on me.
[22:05] <AtomicSpark> I set up a mail server awhile back, never got it to work (gmail requires ssl) and I don't remember the steps I had taken. Oh well.
[22:05] <stgraber> AtomicSpark: the cd usually comes with a debian repository on it and at least two useful tools, hpacucli and hp-health
[22:05] <stgraber> hp-health is used for monitoring and is probably what you want to play with
[22:06] <stgraber> hpacucli is to configure/monitor raid controller (smart array)
[22:07] <clayd> yay.
[22:08] <AtomicSpark> stgraber: Thank you. I'll look into that.
[22:08] <clayd> mrmist:  that article you sent me to a bit ago helped.  sendmail and post fix were both running
[22:08] <clayd> once i stopped sendmail everything is working
[22:08] <mrmist> clayd: *nod* good.
[22:09] <clayd> same back.  thanks a ton
[22:55] <hallyn> is it me, or does the dovecot postinst file dealing sith postfix look whack?
[22:55] <hallyn> it wants to only tweak postfi settings of POSTFIX_BCK doesn't exist.  But before checking -e $POSTFIX_BCK, it does mv $POSTFIX_BCK $POSTFIX_BCK-`date`, essentially
[23:08] <hallyn> zul: in a 'debian/*.postinst' file, what is '$2' usually?  (where i can find that documented?)
[23:08] <ZacLnxNewb> RoyK:  You on?
[23:09] <ZacLnxNewb> I have a question, say I wanted to hook up speakers to my server and be able to play sound across the house, using my netbook as a remote.  What could I use?
[23:15] <hallyn> PLUS ssh-agent keeps dying on me silently, once a day or so
[23:15] <hallyn> hm
[23:19] <SpamapS> damn.. launchpad ro...
[23:20] <ZacLnxNewb> hi
[23:20] <SpamapS> hallyn: debian policy defines what $1 and $2 are
[23:20] <SpamapS> hallyn: I believe $2 is the old version or new version depending on $1
[23:20] <ZacLnxNewb> SpamapS:  Hi. Do you think you could give me an answer? :p
[23:20] <SpamapS> hallyn: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-maintainerscripts.html
[23:21] <SpamapS> ZacLnxNewb: good question. :)
[23:21] <SpamapS> kirkland: don't you use a web app to manage your MP3 collection on a server? Does it have the ability to play the music server side?
[23:22] <kirkland> SpamapS: yup, 'sudo apt-get install musica'
[23:22] <hallyn> SpamapS: kewl, thanks
[23:22] <SpamapS> ZacLnxNewb: ^^
[23:22] <kirkland> SpamapS: oh, wait ... "server side"
[23:22] <kirkland> SpamapS: what do you mean?
[23:22] <ZacLnxNewb> kirkland: play the music at the server's side
[23:22] <SpamapS> Its a cool idea
[23:22] <kirkland> ZacLnxNewb: ah, no, not yet
[23:22] <SpamapS> and makes sense really
[23:22] <kirkland> ZacLnxNewb: i'm working on that part
[23:22] <kirkland> ZacLnxNewb: i have some ajax hackery that should get that going one day
[23:22] <kirkland> ZacLnxNewb: when i implement it, it will go into musica
[23:23] <ZacLnxNewb> kirkland:  D: but we don't have any working examples yet?
[23:24] <kirkland> ZacLnxNewb: not yet
[23:24] <ZacLnxNewb> kirkland:  So you're building musica?  I look forward to it working.
[23:24] <kirkland> ZacLnxNewb: i wrote musica in 1998 and continue to maintain it ;-)
[23:25] <SpamapS> ssh: connect to host bazaar.launchpad.net port 22: Connection refused
[23:25] <SpamapS> :(
[23:26] <ZacLnxNewb> SpamapS:  3:
[23:30] <ZacLnxNewb> kirkland: isn't there a lot of trouble with sound card support?
[23:30] <kirkland> ZacLnxNewb: nope
[23:31] <kirkland> SpamapS: Launchpad is undergoing maintenance and is in read-only mode. You cannot make any changes. You can find more information on the Launchpad system status page.
[23:31] <SpamapS> kirkland: thanks. ;) I just want to bzr pull. :(
[23:32] <kirkland> SpamapS: i think you have to use the bzr+ssh:// url
[23:32] <kirkland> SpamapS: or the http url
[23:32] <SpamapS> Or play sim city for an hour while they finish.. :p
[23:33] <ZacLnxNewb> SpamapS:  Sim city 2000
[23:33] <ZacLnxNewb> Good sir. >:3{=]
[23:34] <SpamapS> ZacLnxNewb: #!#$^^==@#!..||op
[23:34] <ZacLnxNewb> SpamapS:  What's that mean?
[23:34] <SpamapS> When you can decipher it, you are ready for the knowledge it imparts.