[05:42] <akgraner> added summary for Wednesday Open Week to Fridge and added Mark's Blog post to the fridge as well - I'll be afk for most of the morning but I'll try and be online as I have signal...
[06:02] <akgraner> Thinking outloud - maybe we should just have a heading for Ubuntu Cloud? - Since we routinely use/don’t use Forums, Launchpad, and Sneak Peek - this way we can do the same with the Cloud Portal Stuff - since that seems and will continue to be a trending topic throughout the next cycle -Thoughts for/against
[06:03] <akgraner> and it won't crowd the planet news that way either


[01:51] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- jamespage, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3690 Failed to build (eoan/ironic-ui, eoan/networking-hyperv). Needs rebuild due to higher version at destination (eoan/cinder, eoan/neutron-vpnaas)
[09:52] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- LocutusOfBorg, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3712 Needs rebuild due to higher version at destination
[12:45] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- ahasenack, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3784 Needs rebuild due to higher version at destination (eoan/ldb). Successfully built (eoan/samba)


 I setup latte dock as a panel and added the start application launcher menu. However now the windows key will not launch the menu. I tried setting a shortcut key but it will not work. Any idea how I get the functionality back to launch the application launcher menu with the windows start key.
[04:17] <valorie> @Barika -- perhaps ask the latte dock folks?
[04:17] <valorie> or in #kde
[04:18] <valorie> there is no channel for latte dock
[04:40] <Joebo77124> Anyone here
[04:44] <Joebo77124> Hello
[05:37] <valorie> Joebo77124: what's your question?
[05:37] <valorie> people usually speak up if they can help
[05:37] <valorie> this is a support channel
[07:33] <lordievader> Good morning
[09:43] <BluesKaj> 'Morning folks
[10:04] <justxux_> Will next LTS release of Kubuntu be on LTS Plasma?
[10:05] <BluesKaj> good question, but I imagine it will be
[10:10] <justxux_> I think it depends what Plasma packages  will go into Ubuntu lts
[10:19] <acheronuk> justxux_: When discussing the next Plasma LTS timing with KDE, I made them aware of our deadlines, so there is a good chance things will coincide. Opensuse also want an LTS Plasma about the same time or just before
[10:20] <acheronuk> no guarantees, but there is little point in KDE doing Plasma LTS releases if 2 of the biggest distros that do them can't make use of it
[11:35] <justxux_> Thanks for insight, acheronuk.
[11:35] <justxux_> KDE is going in the right direction with lts releases, on the desktop we need stuff like that.
[11:35] <justxux_> And a welcome screen would be pretty good that showcase (in some way) important or useful changes  between two lts plasma's, to faster start working with minimal work flow disruption.
[14:23] <sme> teste
[15:21] <Greenfrog> hello lurkers and sleepy heads
[15:29] <BluesKaj> Hi Greenfrog
[19:38] <kociol> hi i have got problem with installation kubunto next to win 10 home, i tried few time (like 5-6) i have got different problems with acpi,  bios bug ae_not_found and this stuff.
[19:39] <kociol> when i finnaly installed it after bios update , it's stucked in reeboting, i done it manually with powerbutton and it's booted me to windows
[19:40] <kociol> may it be usb 3.0 port issue?
[19:40] <kociol> i made new partition for kubuntu in fat32 like 12gb
[19:42] <kociol> i used rufus to made live usb
[20:20] <valorie> phooey, I hate when people leave
[21:13] <justxux_> « /join #kubuntu »


[22:36] <sunjammer> hi - I've been trying for days to get my cloud-init scripts to work, and just realized that perhaps my problem is to do with merging. I have multi-part mime user-data where the first part is Content-Type: text/cloud-config and the first line of text is #cloud-init. The second part is Content-Type: text/x-include-url which contains three URLs. The three URLs are downloaded and executed correctly, but the first #cloud-init mime part
[22:37] <sunjammer> Looking in /var/lib/cloud/instance/cloud-config.txt it shows it was built 'from 2 files' and states the name of both the first multi-part mime part, and the name of one of the included parts (which was of type cloud-config) which looks good. However both cloud-config parts define write_files: but only the included write_files can be seen in the resulting cloud-config.txt file.
[22:37] <sunjammer> I've tried to use merge_how but honestly don't know what I'm doing, so far I keep getting the same result...
[22:38] <sunjammer> Any help greatly appreciated
[22:54] <sunjammer> Hi tennis


[03:29] <bryce> wgrant: you might want to take a peek at bug 282730 when you get a chance
[06:06] <wgrant> bryce: That looks like the device's fault... but g-s-d should be smart enough to reset things.
[06:09] <wgrant> I've known about this sort of thing for a couple of weeks, but thought it only occurred with some strange touchpads.
[06:09] <wgrant> And it was too late to work out how to add event detection support into g-s-d at that stage.
[06:22] <bryce> wgrant: ok, if it's a device-specific that lessens the severity
[06:25] <wgrant> bryce: As you can see, it fails to find the device.
[06:25] <wgrant> That probably means it decides to go to sleep.
[06:27] <wgrant> The solution is to have g-s-d watch for input device changes, and possibly suspend/resume as well (depending on how braindead some devices are).
[06:31] <bryce> yep - do you know if this issue has been communicated upstream to gnome?
[06:33] <wgrant> I've not heard anything about it, and I've not established any lines of communication with them yet.
[06:33] <wgrant> I need to soon, but exams loom...
[06:34] <bryce> no prob, we've plenty of time before jaunty
[06:51] <wgrant> I think I'll be doing an awful lot of g-s-d and g-c-c hacking after UDS.
[07:26] <wgrant> bryce: What new stuff are we looking at in X land for Jaunty, other than GEM and MPX?
[07:28] <tjaalton> my wishlist includes a working nouveau driver, but upstream should wrap up a release first
[07:28] <bryce> hopefully more stability ;-)
[07:29] <bryce> we need to do a test package for MPX
[07:29] <tjaalton> MPX is not necessarily in xserver 1.6
[07:29] <wgrant> Oh, I thought it had been merged already...
[07:29] <tjaalton> in master yes
[07:29] <tjaalton> but XI2 might not end up in 1.6
[07:29] <wgrant> Ah, 1.6 is already branched?
[07:29] <wgrant> Oh dear.
[07:29] <tjaalton> not yet AFAIK
[07:30] <bryce> I think with MPX what we need to do is provide it as an experimental package for at least one full release, before putting it in
[07:30] <wgrant> I suspect so.
[07:30] <wgrant> It is a bit of a change.
[07:30] <tjaalton> bryce: but it's in the server, no?
[07:30] <bryce> it could end up uncovering bugs in a variety of client apps, so would be nice to give folks a chance to experiment with it before we switch it on by default
[07:31] <wgrant> Can we run it until say
[07:31] <wgrant> Er.
[07:31] <wgrant> ... until say beta, and then switch it off if it proves bad?
[07:31] <tjaalton> gtk/qt should support it first
[07:32] <tjaalton> don't know if there still are some problems
[07:32] <wgrant> I wasn't necessary meaning Jaunty beta, but $CONVENIENT_RELEASE beta.
[07:32] <bryce> wgrant: that's not a bad idea
[07:33]  * tjaalton goes hunting some breakfast
[07:33] <bryce> I think a lot of issues are going to show up as application crashes, in apps that make assumptions that they'll only be accessed by a single pointer device
[07:34] <bryce> which could be extraordinarily irritating for developers of those apps
[07:34] <bryce> so I'm thinking rather than force it on them, instead give them some time to opt-in and play with it on non-development systems
[07:35] <wgrant> Or we could be nasty and force it on them, thus making them fix it *really* quickly.
[07:37] <bryce> maybe
[07:37] <bryce> there's going to be a LOT of corner cases that won't get fixed quickly
[07:37] <bryce> like perhaps fullscreen games
[07:38] <wgrant> Yes...
[07:39] <wgrant> I suppose that any device config UI in g-c-c is going to need to be designed with MPX config in mind.
[07:39] <bryce> yep
[07:42] <bryce> clearly I need to pay better attention to which machine I'm logged into when I restart gdm
[07:43] <wgrant> Haha.
[07:45] <wgrant> That is the main problem with deving X stuff.
[07:45] <bryce> yep
[07:46] <bryce> otoh you learn about .xprofile ;-)
[07:46]  * wgrant knows not of that.
[07:47] <bryce> create a ~/.xprofile, which is sourced during start up of a graphical session.  Put the cmds for any client apps to start up in there
[07:48] <wgrant> Ah.
[07:54] <bryce> create a ~/.xprofile, which is sourced during start up of a graphical session.  Put the cmds for any client apps to start up in there
[07:54] <bryce> dah
[07:54] <bryce> night
[07:57] <wgrant> Night.
[08:17] <tjaalton> how embarrassing, a guy with hardy on his laptop (intel gfx) can't get the picture to the projector
[08:17] <wgrant> And now the complaints roll in about us breaking touchpads :(
[08:17] <wgrant> Hmm.
[08:17] <wgrant> That always works fine for me; what's it breaking on?
[08:17] <tjaalton> just no picture, xrandr shows both outputs though
[08:17] <tjaalton> --auto does nothing
[08:17] <wgrant> Nice.
[08:18] <tjaalton> nothing visible at least
[08:18] <wgrant> Which chipset?
[08:18] <tjaalton> 965GM I think
[08:19] <tjaalton> wgrant: where are the complaints, the forum?
[08:19] <wgrant> tjaalton: Yeah
[08:19]  * wgrant is dealing with them.
[08:20] <wgrant> I hate to imagine the response we'll get once we update it to master...
[08:21] <wgrant> Lots of defaults have been changed.
[08:21] <wgrant> But we'll have a config GUI then, so it shouldn't be toooo bad.
[08:21] <wgrant> Maybe a more thorough release note should be added about the InputDevice section commenting-out?
[08:24] <tjaalton> synaptics master?
[08:24] <wgrant> Yes.
[08:25] <tjaalton> the inputdevice sections shouldn
[08:25] <tjaalton> bah
[08:25] <tjaalton> 't matter when the device is handled via hal
[08:25] <wgrant> They manage to break things if they're uncommented.
[08:25] <wgrant> But if they're commented, they lose their non-gconf settings.
[08:26] <tjaalton> hum, ok
[08:26] <wgrant> The majority of touchpad complaints early on were fixed by removing the InputDevice section. I'm not sure why
[08:30] <tjaalton> hmm, or is it evdev for which they are irrelevant
[08:32] <wgrant> I wonder if it's a good idea to move the Hardy stuff out of https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SynapticsTouchpad and into https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SynapticsTouchpad/Hardy and link to it where relevant... that page is fairly inconveniently unreadable...
[08:33] <tjaalton> yeah
[08:33] <wgrant> It also needs more stuff added to it tonight.
[08:33]  * wgrant copies it elsewhere for hitting.
[08:40] <wgrant> Oh good, it looks like they've finished my passport.
[08:53] <tjaalton> going somewhere?-)
[08:55] <wgrant> tjaalton: UDS?
[08:55] <tjaalton> wgrant: ahh, of course
[08:56] <tjaalton> I renewed mine a couple of weeks ago..
[08:56] <wgrant> Child passports can unfortunately not be renewed here :(
[08:57] <tjaalton> well, you always get a new one when renewing, right?-)
[08:58] <wgrant> Yes, but it's a lot more work.
[08:58] <wgrant> Yay, nice short page at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WilliamGrant/SynapticsTouchpad
[08:58] <tjaalton> my old one was a ten-year passport, but with the biometric crap the five years is max
[08:59] <wgrant> They're still 10 years for adults here.
[08:59] <tjaalton> EU ftl in this case
[08:59] <wgrant> But not for me.
[11:02] <Ng> hrm what happened to bryce's domain
[11:02] <Ng> I wanted to see http://www.bryceharrington.org/X/PkgList/versions_current.html
[11:03] <Ng> also, are the 71 and 96 versions of nvidia not compatible with the current X server?
[11:03] <wgrant> Ng: Correct.
[11:04] <Ng> wgrant: how come they're still in the archive?
[11:04] <wgrant> Ng: And drop the 'www.' from bryce's domain.
[11:05] <wgrant> Ng: Because they might get fixed eventually, I suppose.
[11:06] <Ng> if people have a card which isn't supported by 177 and they upgrade, aren't they basically screwed?
[11:06] <wgrant> If their card isn't supported by 173 or 177, they will be migrated to nv.
[11:07] <wgrant> Unless they don't use update-manager, in which case they deserve to be screwed.
[11:07] <Ng> they will be migrated to nv, but they will then be offered the nvidia drivers
[11:07] <wgrant> Will they?
[11:07] <wgrant> Why?
[11:08] <Ng> the restricted thingy
[11:08] <Ng> jockey?
[11:08] <wgrant> That was fixed months ago.
[11:08] <wgrant> It won't offer broken drivers.
[11:08] <Ng> not according to a guy who did an upgrade about 6 hours ago
[11:09] <wgrant> Hmmm.
[11:09] <wgrant> tseliot: ^^
[11:10] <tseliot> Ng: I fixed this in Jockey
[11:11] <tseliot> wait, no, it doesn't work
[11:11]  * tseliot scratches head
[11:12]  * tseliot checks if the fix is in trunk
[11:13] <tseliot> this line should have solved the problem:
[11:13] <tseliot> assert int(version) >= 173, "NVIDIA legacy driver not yet supported"
[11:14] <Ng> I have no suitable hardware to test this, but if the report is true it's quite a serious bug I think
[11:15] <tseliot> I'll talk to pitti about this
[11:15] <Ng> ideally jockey would say "sorry, nvidia are not currently supporting your hardware, os you lose 3D"
[11:15] <wgrant> s/quite/very/
[11:16] <tseliot> the dist-upgrade should migrate users to "nv" therefore they won't be screwed up
[11:16] <tseliot> but yes, we have to fix this in Jockey too or see why my fix doesn't prevent Jockey from showing 96 and 71
[11:17] <Ng> yeah the guy confirms that he was migrated to nv, which is fine
[11:17] <Ng> but the little hardware applet would have been there telling him he could upgrade to nvidia, which he did, and that obviously broke
[11:18] <Ng> is there any chance though that jockey could explicitly say that the hardware is unsupported? upgraders might be confused as to why their experience has regressed
[11:18] <wgrant> It's probably a bit late for that.
[11:19] <tseliot> no, if the hardware is not supported then it shouldn't show up in Jockey
[11:19] <Ng> I'll settle for that ;)
[11:19] <Ng> it's less than ideal, but I guess there's no good way to notify them that nvidia have screwed them, atm
[11:20] <Ng> and miles better than offering a broken driver
[11:20] <tseliot> yep
[11:20]  * Ng hunts for a bug report about this
[11:22] <Ng> wow it's hard to find nvidia bugs
[11:23] <Ng> "1  → 75  of 5421 results " if I just search for "nvidia" in bugs.lp.net/ubuntu/
[11:26] <tseliot> yes, I know...
[11:29] <Ng> hmm, I don't think there is a bug for this, at least I can't find it searching for "nvidia intrepid"
[11:31] <Ng> just asking him to file one
[11:32] <tseliot> ok, thanks
[11:32] <Ng> np :)
[11:56] <Ng> tseliot: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/288662
[11:56] <tseliot> Ng: thanks a lot
[11:56] <Ng> np
[11:57] <Ng> fwiw the reporter is in an eastern chinese timezone, but I'm subscribed and will poke him if info is required and he's awake ;)
[11:57] <Ng> (since it's obviously getting quite tight on timelines now)
[11:58] <tseliot> ok
[14:14] <tseliot> Ng: the problem should be solved now
[15:11] <superm1> bryce, wgrant i'm not sure if this should be pointed at evdev or the gnome package that handles settings: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bluez/+bug/287801
[15:12] <superm1> but i feel like it shouldn't be kept at bluez, since once it is paired it just shows up as a normal mouse
[15:20] <Ng> tseliot: great, thanks :)
[15:29] <superm1> and this is sounding like probably the same type of problem: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=953489
[15:44] <Ng> does the touchpad stuff use xinput properties? it's my general observation that on a suspend we lose all xinput property settings
[15:44] <Ng> something needs to learn to recognise the devices and store the settings. gnome-settings-daemon springs to mind
[17:38] <bryce> morning
[17:39] <bryce> superm1: probably g-s-d
[17:39] <bryce> superm1: but wgrant would know for certain
[22:59] <wgrant> superm1, Ng: That's g-s-d's fault. Some devices disappear on suspend, and g-s-d doesn't know to look for new ones.
[22:59] <wgrant> The same problem plagues the upstream right/left-handedness setting now.
[23:00] <superm1> where do the settings get stored in general though?
[23:00] <superm1> so that they persist from reboot to reboot etc
[23:00] <wgrant> gconf
[23:00] <superm1> okay, and are they tied to a kernel inputX device then?
[23:01] <wgrant> No, they're global, and have been for a couple of releases.
[23:01] <wgrant> This will change for Jaunty.
[23:01] <superm1> well that will be troublesome most certainly for bluetooth keyboards and mice then.  there is a bug out there that whenever the device goes into low power mode, it's old inputX dissappears, and we get inputX+1
[23:01] <wgrant> The problem is that devices now appear and disappear while X is running.
[23:01] <wgrant> And the new device doesn't have the settings applied.
[23:01] <superm1> ah
[23:02] <wgrant> I wonder how hard it will be to get g-s-d to notice.
[23:02] <wgrant> I'll look at that after breakfast.
[23:02] <superm1> hopefully X emits some kind of event whenever devices show up or similar
[23:03] <wgrant> Probably the devicepresencenotify event.
[23:06] <wgrant> Not all hardware disappears across suspend (my touchpad being the important one), and I don't use custom settings for my USB mouse, so I never noticed that this had become a problem :(
[23:11] <wgrant> I wonder if any other distros have a fix for this.
[23:11] <wgrant> Or are we the only people using input-hotplug for *everything*?
[23:12] <bryce> fedora and debian are
[23:12] <bryce> mandriva is stuck in the past
[23:12] <bryce> not sure what opensuse is doing
[23:12] <bryce> wgrant: but yeah I've wondered the same a bit myself
[23:13] <wgrant> AFAICT, Mandriva barely exists any more.
[23:15] <bryce> wgrant: from my experience, we seem to be a bit ahead of the pack in terms of dealing with unusual hardware
[23:17] <jcristau> bryce: debian isn't yet.
[23:17] <bryce> jcristau: really?  thought you were.
[23:18] <jcristau> it was too late to get this in for lenny
[23:26]  * wgrant grumbles about having to learn about X events now.
[23:44] <tjaalton> ho ho ho
[23:47] <wgrant> Why is tjaalton laughing so evily?
[23:48] <tjaalton> wgrant: haha, you've got mail. a shitload of it. welcome to ubuntu-x! :)
[23:48] <tjaalton> wgrant: that should suffice :)
[23:48] <wgrant> Heh.
[23:48] <wgrant> Thanks.
[23:49]  * wgrant fixes procmail.
[23:51] <tjaalton> wgrant: btw, you think santa is evil? like in in futurama perhaps..
[23:52] <wgrant> I do.
[23:54] <tjaalton> "ho ho ho, your mistletoe is no match to my tow-missile!"
[23:55] <tjaalton> hope i got that right
[23:56]  * wgrant has never seen Futurama.
[23:57] <tjaalton> awwww...


[09:14] <mup> Issue operator#934 closed: simultaneously update app and unit databags in harness <Created by PietroPasotti> <Closed by PietroPasotti> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/934>
[11:57] <mup> PR operator#936 opened: Remove "dying" units from planned units <Created by Mehdi-Bendriss> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/936>


[00:01] <ali1234> is it possible to reconfigure the UI on OS X?
[00:07] <shauno> not really
[00:09] <shauno> not sure how else to answer that.  impossibly vague :)
[00:10] <ali1234> is it possible to make the buttons be on the right?
[00:11] <ali1234> is it possible to turn off global menu?
[00:11] <matti> No.
[00:11] <ali1234> is it possible to replace the dock with a traditional task list?
[00:11] <ali1234> basically i want to turn it into windows
[00:12] <matti> ali1234: Install Windows then ;p
[00:12] <matti> ali1234: Mac is just a PC nowadays ;p
[00:12] <popey> you can have the dock on the bottom, left or right
[00:12] <ali1234> can i run Xcode on windows?
[00:12] <ali1234> popey: i don't want any kind of dock, docks are rubbish
[00:12] <popey> meh
[00:13] <popey> dunno if you can turn it off entirely
[00:13] <popey> pretty sure you can't make global menu go away
[00:13] <popey> oh, you said buttons, sorry, i thought you meant dock
[00:13] <popey> didnt realise you meant window controls
[00:13] <ali1234> yes
[00:14] <ali1234> is it possible to install KDE as a desktop and run native apps through it?
[00:14] <Azelphur> popey: I was asking you about rsnapshot the other day, how do you get around the permissions/file problems with rsnapshot? :p
[00:15] <popey> which problems?
[00:15] <popey> ali1234: you can run x on it, dunno about DEs
[00:15] <popey> i have x on mine so i can do ssh -x to ubuntu
[00:16] <shauno> you can install gnome/kde, it's just a lot of work because no-one builds it for you anymore
[00:17] <Azelphur> popey: you say you back up the entire filesystem, but surely to do that as a normal user is impossible?
[00:17] <shauno> but if you launch 'native' apps thru them, they'll appear on your regular desktop, instead of thru X.  because they're not X apps
[00:17] <ali1234> yeah i'm aware of the brokenness of OS X's X11
[00:17] <popey> Azelphur: i dont do it as a normal user, I do it as root
[00:18] <Azelphur> popey: ah, so you've enabled the root user on your server? :p
[00:18] <ali1234> i just hope the same thing doesn't happen when we're all forced to switch to wayland
[00:18] <dogmatic69> anyone know how i can make vsftp upload files to 644 and folders at 755?
[00:18] <Azelphur> that makes more sense :)
[00:18] <dogmatic69> it keeps doing 022 and random things
[00:18] <popey> no Azelphur
[00:18] <Azelphur> back to being confused then xD
[00:18] <popey> i added an ssh key to /root/.ssh/authorized_keys
[00:18] <popey> so rsnapshot can connect as root to those boxes
[00:19] <Azelphur> ah I see
[00:19] <dogmatic69> local_umask=077 is close, but only for the current user
[00:19] <dogmatic69> doing 755 is not actually doing 755, its 042 or something
[00:30] <ali1234> is it difficult to use a mac if you don't have a mac keyboard?
[00:30] <shauno> not really.  f12 will become your eject key, super_L will become your cmd key.
[00:31] <ali1234> super L being left windows key?
[00:31] <shauno> yeah
[00:32] <shauno> it's a bit odd if you're actually used to using a mac keyboard, because they have alt & cmd the other way around  (ctrl, alt, cmd, space).  but if you're not used to it, you won't notice
[00:33] <ali1234> i used a mac once before and the keyboard layout was noticably different hence my question
[00:33] <ali1234> i never got used to it though
[00:33] <shauno> the mac's uk layout is closer to a US layout than windows'
[00:34] <ali1234> yeah
[00:34] <ali1234> will that cause me a problem?
[00:35] <ali1234> will i always get " when i type @?
[00:35] <shauno> it'll be a bit annoying if you're not used to US keyboards.  @ is on shift-2 :)
[00:35] <ali1234> no way to reconfigure it?
[00:35] <shauno> not sure actually.  haven't looked
[00:36] <ali1234> http://www.gyford.com/phil/writing/2005/11/20/using_a_british.php
[00:38] <shauno> was in the US when I started moving form ubuntu/debian to osx, so didn't think of that at all :)
[00:39] <shauno> (the remap modifiers bit is handy tho.  turning useless caplock key into a ctrl key is pure win.)
[00:39] <ali1234> i'd be happy if things just did what was written on them
[00:40] <HazRPG> man I'm boreddddddddddd
[00:40] <HazRPG> need something to do >_<
[00:40] <HazRPG> tempted to turn on the c64 to waste some hrs
[00:40] <hamitron> :)
[00:41] <shauno> only pc keyboard I have atm is ps/2, so I can't really test :/
[00:42] <HazRPG> shauno: heh, I use to have to use a US layout keyboard at one point
[00:43] <shauno> everyone does at one point or another
[00:43] <HazRPG> couldn't avoid it, because the US layout is so different to the UK... you loose keys when you switch it to UK
[00:43] <HazRPG> laptop has a US/Ar layout
[00:44] <HazRPG> Which I think is daft, there should be a UK/Ar layout :/
[00:44] <shauno> I remember finding some quake build (possibly glquake) that actually understood my keyboard layout.
[00:44] <shauno> was very odd actually having ~ open the console.  quake originally assumed a US layout, so it was always "the key left of 1", no matter what was written on it
[00:45] <HazRPG> ah, yeah I remember that
[00:45] <HazRPG> I use to associate that key with the "console/terminal" key
[00:48] <shauno> that's still my system-wide "give me a terminal" key :)
[00:49] <shauno> especially since the mac-uk keymap puts the most useless characters possible on it
[00:49] <HazRPG> heh you mean the "¬`|" keys?
[00:49] <shauno> worse
[00:50] <HazRPG> (which I think is daft cos | is also at the bottom next to shift!)
[00:50] <shauno> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_sign
[00:50] <shauno> I can't type it anymore, because that key doesn't do what it oughta anymore :)
[00:50] <ali1234> §
[00:50] <shauno> but that's gotta score major points for being the most useless glpyh to ever earn it's own key
[00:52] <HazRPG> shauno: might be useful for lawyers :P
[00:52] <HazRPG> which is probably why its there :P
[00:52] <ali1234> and publishing
[00:52] <HazRPG> was going to say that too
[00:52] <HazRPG> lol
[00:53] <HazRPG> because its their demographic they use to aim for - and well its too late now to change a standard keyset for them
[00:53] <shauno> I'd think if that was the logic, it'd be on the US keymap too
[00:53] <HazRPG> oh, isn't it?
[00:54] <HazRPG> hmm, seems the americans called brackets as parenthesis... always wondered what that word meant :/
[01:12] <ali1234> well this sucks
[01:13] <hamitron> :/
[01:13] <ali1234> i dunno if it's the driver or a windows starter limitation but i can't do dual head and i can only do maximum res of 1680x1050
[01:14] <ali1234> also the picture is really brown for no reason
[01:14] <hamitron> 1680x1050 on a netbook?
[01:14] <ali1234> that could be the monitor though
[01:14] <ali1234> external monitor
[01:15] <hamitron> MS probably want you to pay them some of your hard earned £££££
[01:15] <ali1234> i need to install visual studio express so i can compare it to xcode
[01:15] <ali1234> and this netbook is the only windows machine i have
[01:18] <ali1234> damn windows is slow
[01:20] <hamitron> could be the netbook ;/
[01:20] <ali1234> it works in ubuntu
[01:20] <hamitron> windows 7 kinda needs more
[01:20] <hamitron> ;)
[01:21] <hamitron> I found win7 on my old machine with 2gb ram too slow
[01:22] <hamitron> but putting it on something "good", and it has actually won me over
[01:22] <hamitron> :(
[01:33] <ali1234> anyone got an idea of a simple app i could try to make to test all these things out?
[01:33] <ali1234> should be something that i can make in a day or less
[01:34] <popey> test what?
[01:35] <popey> the screen res problem?
[01:35] <ali1234> "every mobile app development environment"
[01:35] <popey> ah
[01:35] <popey> a twitter app :)
[01:35] <ali1234> no
[01:35] <popey> the world needs more twitter apps!
[01:35] <ali1234> that will take more than a day
[01:35] <popey> rss reader?
[01:35] <ali1234> rss reader is what i was going to do
[01:36] <ali1234> but only because it's what the ovi app wizard makes
[01:36] <popey> haha
[01:36] <ali1234> and as such i have something i can already compare with
[01:36] <ali1234> although i already tried to make a RSS reader on android and failed
[01:36] <ali1234> but i only tried for about half an hour
[01:37] <popey> you comparing mobile development environments to what end?
[01:37] <popey> decide on what platform to make your world domination app on?
[01:37] <ali1234> no
[01:37] <ali1234> evaluating them for someone else
[01:40] <ali1234> i already know Qt is the best :)
[01:40] <ali1234> (for me that is, not necessarily in general)
[04:24] <ali1234> the windows phone 7 emulator just bombs out
[04:24] <ali1234> i think it needs more ram, or hardware vx support
[04:25] <ali1234> but it isn't saying. it just crashes.
[04:53]  * ball is confused
[07:37] <TheOpenSourcerer> Morning campers :-)
[07:38] <popey> moo
[07:41] <TheOpenSourcerer> baa
[07:53] <MooDoo> hello all
[07:59] <MooDoo> oo dropbox security terms of service changed......
[08:00] <MooDoo> guess it's not as secure as they make out.
[08:29] <Martiini> I need to clone files from a partition to partition (preserving paths, permissions .. etc) - do I use copy, xcopy, rsync ??
[08:43] <DJones> Morning all
[08:46] <nperry> Another tuesday, only tomorrow and thursday to go
[08:47] <DJones> I woke up thinking it was wednesday
[08:47] <MooDoo> i woke up :( lol
[08:47] <MartijnVdS> ♫ I woke up this morning
[08:48] <DJones> MooDoo: Always a good thing though, not waking up would be a sign of a serious problem
[08:48] <MooDoo> ok let me rephrase it.....i woke up 3 hours too early :D
[08:48] <nperry> I'm tempted to go and buy portal 2
[08:48] <DJones> MooDoo: Not so good then
[08:49] <MartijnVdS> nperry: get a console version, you'll get the PC/Mac version for free
[08:49] <nperry> For free?
[08:49] <MartijnVdS> nperry: PS3 version includes a code that you can use to get Portal 2 on Steam on your PC/Mac
[08:50] <nperry> Oh, but I don't have a PS3
[08:50] <MartijnVdS> time to get one :P
[08:50] <nperry> Maybe I can get some one to get it for there ps3 and i'll have the code
[08:50] <nperry> Win!
[08:51] <nperry> Its my girlfriend birthday today, I half wrapped a present and then used a sainsbury carrier bag to wrap the rest.
[08:52] <nperry> I ran out of wrapping paper :(
[08:52] <MooDoo> nperry: oooops :) wrapped with a sainburys kite :D
[08:53] <stuphi> Martiini: http://www.ymeme.com/recipe-copy-files-directories-recursively-tar-111.html
[09:19] <JamesTait> Hello, good morning and welcome!
[09:26] <Myrtti> phew
[09:26] <wintellect> Mornin all
[09:27] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps
[09:34] <willy1977> morning
[09:35] <MooDoo> willy1977: morning
[09:37] <scoundrel50a> Can I install iTunes insto Ubuntu 10.10?
[09:38] <MartijnVdS> scoundrel50a: What do you want to do? Listen to music? Buy music?
[09:38] <scoundrel50a> Attach my iPhone to Ubuntu
[09:38] <scoundrel50a> I suppose listen mostly to music
[09:38] <MartijnVdS> Rhythmbox and Banshee support iPods and iPhones afaik
[09:39] <MartijnVdS> just plug it in and a dialog should appear :)
[09:39] <scoundrel50a> oh, I didnt know that, I'll give that a go now, thank
[09:50] <DJones> !itunes | scoundrel50a This may help as well,
[09:50] <DJones> !players
[10:17] <scoundrel50a> DJones: sorry just saw this now, thanks I will have a look at them. I suppose they also work on HTC phones as well?
[10:18] <MartijnVdS> scoundrel50a: yeah, all MP3-playing devices should be supported
[10:18] <MartijnVdS> if they aren't support can usually be added easily
[10:18] <DJones> scoundrel50a: I'm not sure about HTC phones, its something I've not used, I always just copy music as a files to my HTC
[10:18] <MartijnVdS> It worked on my HTC Magic and Nexus One
[10:19] <scoundrel50a> ok, thank you.
[10:19] <MartijnVdS> (it should work on any Android device really)
[10:22] <danfish> \o/ natty t-shirt has arrived
[10:22] <danfish> morning
[10:22] <MartijnVdS> "nat" is Dutch for "wet"
[10:22] <danfish> haha
[10:24] <bigcalm> Heh
[10:41] <dogmatic69> im trying to mount something but its not working... im pretty sure the same command worked yesterday.  sudo mount /dev/sdf /media/ec6-clone/
[10:41] <dogmatic69> getting : mount: special device /dev/sdf does not exist
[10:41] <dogmatic69> anyone know what i can check?
[10:41] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: are you sure you need to mount manually?
[10:42] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: is it a removeable device?
[10:42] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: try mounting using the GUI tools (either the file browser or the Disk Utility in System->Administration)
[10:42] <dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: its a AWS drive
[10:42] <MartijnVdS> What's an AWS drive?
[10:43] <dogmatic69> no gui tools on 10.10 server :D
[10:43] <directhex> dogmatic69, what are you using to create the EBS device node?
[10:43] <dogmatic69> elastic block store volume
[10:43] <dogmatic69> directhex: aws console, i had it mounted yesterday... just cant do it today :/
[10:44] <dogmatic69> console as is 'https://console.aws.amazon.com'
[10:45] <dogmatic69> what is the command to show all the drives available?
[10:45] <dogmatic69> hmm, its not there in fdisk -l
[10:53] <dogmatic69> gah
[10:53] <dogmatic69> stoped it, removed the drive, added it back and started. now works
[10:53] <dogmatic69> not like i did not try that 5 times already
[11:01] <davmor2> morning all
[11:01] <davmor2> AlanBell: No pimping circleof friends much then :D
[11:02] <dogmatic69> o/
[11:04] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[11:04] <AlanBell> davmor2: who me?
[11:05] <MooDoo> brobostigon: morning
[11:05] <brobostigon> http://www.geeksaresexy.net/2011/04/18/how-to-fix-any-computer-in-2-easy-steps/ very funny, :)
[11:05] <brobostigon> MooDoo: good morning,
[11:06] <scoundrel50a> ok, anybody know if there is a fix yet, of the backlight problem with Natty? Have asked in #ubuntu+1, nobody is there.
[11:08] <davmor2> MooDoo: Morning dude
[11:18] <MooDoo> davmor2: hello buddy...how's it going
[11:23] <davmor2> MooDoo: Sound although I hope czajkowski gets better soon it's not the same not picking on her :D
[11:25] <gord> great, i just installed blender on my server. that was a clever thing to do
[11:25] <MooDoo> davmor2: yes i know, kind of miss her to be honest :)
[11:25] <MooDoo> czajkowski: hugs, get well soon i miss you !!!! <3 :)
[11:26] <davmor2> MooDoo: you don't need to be that honest ;)
[11:26] <MooDoo> davmor2: just being nice to her for a change
[11:26] <davmor2> gord: D'oh now you got to uninstall X and the random desktop environment it installed and ......
[11:27] <gord> actually no it didn't pull that in :)
[11:27] <gord> blender doesn't *require* X so i guess it did some cleverness
[11:27] <brobostigon> any grphical html designers, i cant remember enough html, :(
[11:28] <davmor2> gord: ohhhh I wonder.  I know blender must be able to do headless for server farm I guess?
[11:28] <gord> yup
[11:40] <selinuxium> Morning all   o/
[12:14] <Azelphur> Is there a tool I can run in the background to monitor connection stability? logging downtime/disconnects etc?
[12:15] <dogmatic69> ping google.com > log.txt :D
[12:16] <Tommeh> Azelphur, smoke ping?
[12:16] <Tommeh> mtr might be worth a go, too.
[12:17] <MooDoo>  doesn't nagios do something like that?
[12:20] <Azelphur> Tommeh: yea, I more want a log of when the connection goes down so I can use it as ammo against the ISP :P
[12:21] <MooDoo> lucky isp to have you as a customer :p
[12:21] <Tommeh> Smokeping would show graphs over time. It's almost as useful to have some form of 'loss' statistic (which mtr can provide)
[12:22] <Tommeh> But unless you get the logs directly from your router/modem, you won't be able to get anything accurate.
[12:22] <Azelphur> MooDoo: totally, that said since I started this conversation I've had 3 disconnects.
[12:22] <Tommeh> Better yet: get a better ISP that logs such things from their end.
[12:22] <MooDoo> Azelphur: ah!  not with virgin are you?
[12:22] <Azelphur> nah, good ol ADSL
[12:27] <Azelphur> found a nice perl script, downtime.pl
[12:27] <Azelphur> sending IMCP pings to my gateway every second, and logging disconnects that last more than 30 seconds :)
[12:39] <Neoti> has anyone had any experiance with the Intel HD graphics chip set on a i3 CPU on a laptop?
[12:39] <MartijnVdS> It works great for me :)
[12:39] <AlanBell> Neoti: yes, do you have a wobbly vga port?
[12:40] <MartijnVdS> ♫ H-D-M-I ♬
[12:40] <Neoti> no i am just looking at buying the HP G62-452SA laptop and have reed people have had problems with the intel HD graphincs etc ...
[12:40] <Neoti> though some people report it fixed as of 10.10 ?????
[12:40] <MartijnVdS> Neoti: the only current problem is "wobbly" output on VGA ports, but that's being worked on.
[12:41] <MartijnVdS> Neoti: Laptop displays and HDMI/DVI are fine
[12:41] <Neoti> ah... cool bean ..... thanks ...
[12:43] <Azelphur> knocked up a little hack using a python ping library xD
[12:44] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: to do what? ping people? :)
[12:44] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: or a radar display? :)
[12:44] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: ping my ISPs gateway and log the results
[12:45] <Azelphur> a whole 4 lines :o
[12:45] <Azelphur> python gives you wings :D
[12:45] <MartijnVdS> \o/
[12:58] <DJones> Neoti: Just for in, somebody was just asking about the G62-465DX in #ubuntu and couldn't get wifi working
[12:59] <DJones> s/in/info
[12:59] <DJones> It could be a different driver
[13:00]  * MooDoo hugs i miss youuuuuuuu <3
[13:01] <DJones> Get a room :)
[13:03] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: that virus was called "I love you" and it's been 11 years, let it go. :P
[13:03] <DJones> Neoti: I've just bought a HP G72 http://goo.gl/t0W76 The only issue I had was that I had to connect via cable to update before wifi worked, but graphics wise there's been no problem
[13:04] <MooDoo> damn missed off the czajkowski from that last statement, pah moment passed!
[13:04] <MooDoo> yay stag do tonight :)
[13:05] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: your own? or someone else's?
[13:05] <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: someone else's i've been married for too lon...er a few years now
[13:08] <MartijnVdS> http://www.simplimg.com/product_images/4hRJs.jpg
[13:11] <bigcalm> All hail the wonderful Virgin Media for going tits up while I was out for lunch
[13:11] <MooDoo> bigcalm: you as well :) ok then HAIL HAIL HAIL
[13:25] <Neoti> Thanks Djones
[13:26] <Neoti> i have found that with my last laptop ... i now always make sure i have an internet connection while installing ubuntu and always do an update after installing via cable connection to make sure everything works etc.... Ubuntu rocks.
[13:27] <Neoti> bigcalm what problems are you having with virgin media and where abouts in the country are you as i have a client who is having some problems with vm
[13:28] <Neoti> MooDoo ... i guess you are having problems too with virgin media ?
[13:28] <bigcalm> Shropshire
[13:28] <MooDoo> Neoti: on and off all day....Nottongham
[13:28] <bigcalm> My connection is obviously back now :) Restarted the modem
[13:29] <Neoti> i have a client on voip on vm and latency to there router was just crap looking at 10-30% packet loss...
[13:29] <Neoti> guess vm are having some core network problems or something ...
[13:38] <davmor2> bigcalm: I've had it for a couple of months,  by all accounts it's down to high usage,  ie a lot of new customer are taking the 30 meg option that is screwing everyone else up :(
[13:43] <popey> :(
[14:02] <DJones> bigcalm: May be relevant http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/04/19/virgin_media_superhub_still_wobbly/
[14:03] <oimon> hmm, received junk mail from AV campaign despite being on the restricted electoral roll & being on the MPS - surely that's not allowed?
[14:04] <MooDoo> oimon: with your address or just posted through the door?
[14:04] <oimon> my name + address, posted via royal mail
[14:04] <bigcalm> DJones: I can't have the 30mb connection unless I stop getting matesrates. If that were the case, I might as well go to 50mb
[14:05] <bigcalm> Portal 2 just crashed on me though
[14:09] <oimon> MooDoo: the funny thing was, junk mail comprised some pics of some talentless goons who are supporting their cause, as if to say, well if it's good enough for Eddie Izzard and Stephen Fry, it's good enough for me. i couldn't pick 2 worse role models if i tried
[14:10] <davmor2> hello czajkowski how you doing?
[14:11] <czajkowski> davmor2: hi
[14:12]  * MooDoo hugs czajkowski and davmor2
[14:12] <czajkowski> MooDoo: hi
[14:12] <DJones> oimon: Political parties seem to think they're above & beyond the regulations, I had a similar thing before the last election with phone calls from various parties despite being on the TPS, when I pointed that out they said it didn't apply to them because they weren't selling anything so it wasn't marketing....TPS said otherwise after a complaint & said they would contact them & warn them
[14:12] <davmor2> czajkowski: How's the back?
[14:12] <oimon> DJones: and nothing was done i assume
[14:13] <DJones> oimon: They said they contacted them and I didn't get any more calls
[14:13] <DJones> Thats all I can say
[14:13] <czajkowski> gettng there thanks
[14:13] <oimon> it's a sure fire way to get my back up.
[14:14] <oimon> just got back from the infosec event at earl's court. pretty lame, hardly any freebies, & dominated by AV vendors of course. not much of note for enterprise linux users as far as i could see
[14:15] <oimon> got my details scanned a few times and lost a little bit of my soul each time
[14:15] <DJones> oimon: That wouldn't have been "Alternative Vote" vendors would it :)
[14:15] <oimon> :P
[14:15] <oimon> the bigger the stand, the lamer your product usually
[14:15] <oimon> symantec & sophos had the biggest stand
[14:17] <n1md4> hi guys.  I'm trying to a new os but each time it tries to boot it's mounting the root file system read-only?  n.b. Debian testing, but I've chatted more here than on debian channel ;)
[14:22] <n1md4> ah!  fstab says errors=remount-ro :(
[14:24] <DJones> Heh, anybody interested/vain enough to buy a short domain with their initials http://www.nominet.org.uk/digitalAssets/49223_Reserved_domains_status_table_130411.pdf Wonder if Slumberland beds will bid for zz.me.uk
[14:29] <Azelphur> Yay, landlines completely gone again
[14:30] <Azelphur> So far it's been Lots of short (20-120 seconds) drops, followed by an entire day of outage, then it came up, then more short drops, and now it's completely down again :(
[14:30] <Azelphur> anyone have ideas on what might cause that? XD
[14:31] <Azelphur> the ADSL light on the router isn't even coming on any more \o/
[14:32] <DJones> Azelphur: Which ISP?
[14:32] <Azelphur> sky.
[14:32] <MooDoo> VIRGIN :)
[14:33] <DJones> Azelphur: Possibly a faulty router? I had a problem with mine a few months back, turned out to be a faulty power supply which wasn't giving enough power to the router so it couldn't connect, although I was getting some lights on so gave the impression that it was working
[14:33] <hamitron> Azelphur: 22 days 17 hours, no drop ;)
[14:33] <Azelphur> yea it could be
[14:34] <Azelphur> http://pastebin.com/yzMfXaCf the last results from my little python script I wrote before it went terminal :p
[14:34] <DJones> If you've got a spare power supply, try swapping it & trying again, the Sky support said it was a fairly common problem although not publicised
[14:34] <hamitron> you could disable wireless to reduce power to test for that?
[14:34] <Azelphur> DJones: I did try my belkin router using a password generator and it wouldn't connect
[14:35] <Azelphur> I could.
[14:35] <Azelphur> The server for http://<IP_ADDRESS>/ took too long to respond. It may be overloaded. xD
[14:35] <hamitron> my wrt54gl sometimes does that :/
[14:37] <hamitron> Azelphur: you have 2 internet connections now?
[14:37] <Azelphur> hamitron: 3
[14:38] <hamitron> 2 dsl i mean
[14:38] <Azelphur> yea
[14:38] <Azelphur> if my mum has her way, 4 :D
[14:38] <hamitron> omg, why?
[14:38] <MartijnVdS> Backups, baby :)
[14:38] <hamitron> better to just get a better single line :/
[14:38] <oimon> DJones: when are those domains being released?
[14:38] <Azelphur> hamitron: Step 1) Azelphur tries to get an internet connection, Step 2) Mum gives asshole dad control of internet connection, Step 3) Asshole dad either sabotages or tells me I can't use new connection
[14:39] <Azelphur> So far I got the second line, my dad stole it, she wants me to buy a third line
[14:39] <Azelphur> xD
[14:39] <DJones> oimon: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/04/19/short_domain_landrush/
[14:39] <Azelphur> hamitron: yea, that's all I ever wanted to do, but sanity doesn't exactly reign in this house :D
[14:39] <ali1234> there's some real serious dickmoves you could pull under that situation
[14:40] <dogmatic69> anyone know if its possible to move a ssl certificate from one server to another
[14:40] <ali1234> for example, register third line under her name and then don't pay the bill
[14:41] <Azelphur> ali1234: if I don't get my connection back I'll start playing, don't worry :)
[14:44] <hamitron> Azelphur: as you are the techy of the house, just make up some likely story
[14:45] <hamitron> then you can use them all secretly
[14:45] <Azelphur> lol
[14:45] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: you can move certificates and keys to another server, yes
[14:45] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: but not another hostname
[14:46] <Azelphur> hamitron: so far the only thing my dad did was call sky and cancel the engineer that was going to repair the problem xD
[14:46] <hamitron> I have a 60Gb download limit... but if my sister downloads 500Mb it is her fault for putting us over the limit ;)
[14:46] <Azelphur> hamitron: but behaviour like that from my dad is reasonably mild on the scale of things xD
[14:46]  * MartijnVdS sidestepped the problem by moving out of his parents' house :P
[14:46] <Azelphur> yea, I'm planning on doing that soonish xD
[14:46] <shauno> heh, ditto.  sounds like it should be pretty high up the todo list atm
[14:47] <shauno> either that, or replace the dad ;)
[14:47] <Azelphur> yea, me and my cousin want to go halves on a place
[14:47] <hamitron> I like it at home tbh
[14:47] <hamitron> there are advantages and disadvantages I suppose
[14:47] <Azelphur> hamitron: heh there's no point in me staying here, my relationship with my dad is 100% over and has been for well over a year
[14:47] <Azelphur> when I move there won't be any contact.
[14:48] <hamitron> :\
[14:48] <DJones> hamitron: s/are advantages/is freedom s/disadvantages/bills
[14:48] <Azelphur> me and my mum get on good :p
[14:48] <Azelphur> indeed bills ftl :(
[14:48] <hamitron> DJones: I also like mumsy's cooking
[14:48] <hamitron> :)
[14:48] <Azelphur> but I bought lots of good stuff while at home and now I can move out and be poor since I bought all the good stuff anyway haha
[14:49] <hamitron> I have 3 sunday roast dinners per week here
[14:49] <hamitron> when i had my own place, it was pizza or fish and chips
[14:49] <Azelphur> my dad starts arguments about food, I'm damned if I eat and I'm damned if I don't :D
[14:51] <Azelphur> but yea turning wireless off on the sky router, see if I get anywhere :)
[14:51] <dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: cool, its a *.domain.co.uk one. is it possible to have it on many servers, one ec2 instance per sub domain
[14:53] <Azelphur> minecraft 1.5 is out :D
[14:53] <Azelphur> time to break everything
[14:53] <hamitron> :/
[14:53] <willy_1977> jeesh when I moved out I realised exactly how much my folks had been doing for me - I remember the first pay packet the first time after I'd moved out I thought there'd been a muck up with the banks when I saw the available balance after all the bills had been paid :o
[14:53] <hamitron> I've not played 1.4 much yet
[14:54] <DJones> Azelphur: Have you got anything left thats not broken left to break?
[14:54] <Azelphur> DJones: yep, I havn't broken you yet :p
[14:54]  * DJones hides
[14:54] <hamitron> Azelphur: you fixed the arduino?
[14:54] <hamitron> ;)
[14:54] <Azelphur> hamitron: nope
[14:55] <hamitron> I want one of these: http://www.terasic.com.tw/cgi-bin/page/archive.pl?Language=English&CategoryNo=53&No=83&PartNo=3
[14:56] <hamitron> not really wanting to spend that much money atm though
[14:57] <Azelphur> yea, even with wifi disabled it doesn't even seem to be dialing
[14:58] <hamitron> :/
[14:58] <hamitron> brb, delivery arriving
[14:58] <Azelphur> hamitron: shiny :o
[15:02] <DJones> Probably a Graze box
[15:02] <MartijnVdS> gaze box 8-)
[15:03] <Azelphur> I've got 3 of those haha
[15:03] <Azelphur> got them for mothers day, my mums into healthy things.
[15:05] <DJones> My mum got a box of chocolates & a bunch of flowers, Dad ate most of the chocolates
[15:05] <oimon> i had my first mcdonalds meal for ages today...felt good :)
[15:06] <Azelphur> haha
[15:06] <ali1234> mobile SDK evaluation is failing horribly
[15:06] <DJones> I've never seen mcdonalds and good used in the same sentance before
[15:06] <oimon> was getting dirty looks from some girls in the park cos i'm skinny and eating bloater food while they were eating soups and salads
[15:07] <ali1234> WP7 SDK doesn't work, blackberry is so confusing it's going to take me two days to figure out how to install it
[15:07] <Azelphur> ali1234: why are you using SDKs for dieing phones xD
[15:09] <MartijnVdS> What's wrong with Java2ME?
[15:10] <ali1234> Azelphur: because i was asked to evaluate them
[15:10] <Azelphur> I see :)
[15:10] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: s/asked/paid/ :P
[15:10] <ali1234> MartijnVdS: i dunno, i've heard of J2ME, what does it have to do with me?
[15:11] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: J2ME is Java for VERY old mobile phones
[15:11] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: like Nokia S40
[15:11] <MartijnVdS> and earlier
[15:11] <ali1234> well that's not on the list
[15:11] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Platform,_Micro_Edition
[15:11] <ali1234> i'm only covering smartphones
[15:13] <ali1234> the WP7 SDK was super easy to install, there's just one thing to download that does it all
[15:13] <ali1234> it's a pity it doesn't work really
[15:13] <ali1234> because it actually looks quite good
[15:13] <willy_1977> doesn't work?
[15:13] <ali1234> yeah the device emulator just bombs out instantly when you start it
[15:13] <ali1234> no error message
[15:14] <willy_1977> nice
[15:15] <ali1234> i think my netbook doesn't meet the requirements
[15:15] <ali1234> would be nice if the installer told me that before it started though
[15:16] <hamitron> I hate installers that refuse to install on certain specs, just a warning is enough though :)
[15:16] <ali1234> well the SDK covers xbox and windows too
[15:16] <ali1234> and those probably work
[15:16] <ali1234> only the wp7 emulator fails
[15:16] <oimon> aargh halifax have deleted all of my online statements :(
[15:16] <ali1234> but i'm not interested in the other stuff
[15:17] <willy_1977> oimon, that's been on the cards for months now... they've been warning you to print them off if you need them...
[15:17] <hamitron> if it fails to do that you want, it is a fail... simple
[15:17] <ali1234> yes
[15:17] <oimon> willy_1977: months ? :(
[15:17] <oimon> didn't notice till today..1 day late
[15:18] <ali1234> "if you need them" - everyone needs bank statements
[15:18] <willy_1977> oimon, you may have clicked through the nag screen and said don't show me again I guess? but they did also snail mail me about it?
[15:18] <oimon> my pay slips have gone "online" now, don't receive anything in paper form anymore - how am i supposed to prove anything anymore?
[15:18]  * hamitron gets statements through snail mail
[15:19] <ali1234> me too
[15:19] <hamitron> bit of a technophobe ;)
[15:19] <willy_1977> some things need filing...I'd feel a bit lost without a payslip...
[15:19] <hamitron> I assume everything can and will go wrong also
[15:19] <oimon> thats a really poor show from HBOS removing the pdfs of statements
[15:24]  * hamitron sighs
[15:24] <hamitron> nokia E7 looks nice
[15:24] <hamitron> :/
[15:30] <dogmatic69> anyone know why this would happen with my ssh? was working before
[15:30] <dogmatic69> http://bin.cakephp.org/view/2081147642
[15:31] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Alan Lord] How to install OpenERP 6 on Ubuntu 10.04 LTS Server (Part 1) - http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2011/04/19/how-to-install-openerp-6-on-ubuntu-10-04-lts-server-part-1/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=how-to-install-openerp-6-on-ubuntu-10-04-lts-server-part-1
[15:32] <shauno> dogmatic69: 'name' isn't a resolvable name is it ?
[15:32] <dogmatic69> ?
[15:32] <dogmatic69> no error, just hangs
[15:33] <shauno> try ssh -vv <name>.  ssh can be very verbose if you ask it :)
[15:33] <shauno> (that's two V's, not a dubyah)
[15:34] <dogmatic69> ok, its got configs from ~/.ssh/config, then /etc/ssh/ssh_config
[15:34] <dogmatic69> ah
[15:34] <dogmatic69> i see...
[15:34] <dogmatic69> connecting to <ip>
[15:34] <dogmatic69> which is the internal ip o.o
[15:35] <shauno> yeah, that's what I meant about 'name' being resolvable.  if 'name' is an actual host, it won't fall thru to the one in config
[15:35] <dogmatic69> cool
[15:35] <dogmatic69> easy fix then, had the config in ~/ and /etc..
[15:35] <shauno> -vv is well handy.  ssh will tell you as much as you want to know :)
[15:36] <dogmatic69> one was wrong :)
[15:36] <dogmatic69> thanks
[15:36] <dogmatic69> -vvvv
[15:36] <dogmatic69> :D
[15:36] <dogmatic69> -><PHONE_NUMBER>...
[15:41] <shauno> I don't know why I'm even pretending to put this tower back together.  the internal layout is so idiotic I can't actually use it ;/
[15:42] <shauno> it just keeps getting repopulated just so I know where the parts are
[15:43] <shauno> (I can't seem to convince the loom for the motherboard power, not to make contact with the cpu fan.  which is a very awkward noise)
[16:20] <neallmcl> hi all
[16:23] <oimon> good news..much needed unity functionality is arriving : http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/04/how-to-display-unread-pidgin-count-on-unity-launcher
[16:33] <Azelphur> DragonKeeper: :D
[16:33] <DragonKeeper> hey lol
[16:33] <DragonKeeper> ill use openbox
[16:33] <Azelphur> DragonKeeper: fun
[16:34] <Azelphur> I use 11.04 myself, but I don't use unity
[16:34] <Azelphur> well I do use unity on my laptops, but not on my PC
[16:34] <dogmatic69> what is the 'correct' way to run a bash script again?
[16:34] <Azelphur> dogmatic69: ./scriptname ?
[16:34] <dogmatic69> where the wrong way is '. <script>'
[16:34] <dogmatic69> could be
[16:34] <DragonKeeper> as Azelphur said ^
[16:35] <dogmatic69> tx
[16:35] <oimon> dogmatic69: it helps to understand why too
[16:35] <dogmatic69> oimon: i was told . <script> does other things
[16:35] <dogmatic69> line by line or something
[16:35] <DragonKeeper> Azelphur  i installed it didnt like it  swapped back to 10.10  :L   the whole side bar and menus at top panel  just was to weird to get used to
[16:36] <Azelphur> DragonKeeper: yea, when you do update next time just login in "Classic Desktop" mode xD
[16:36] <Azelphur> and it's back how it was.
[16:37] <DragonKeeper> Azelphur oh i didnt know that  .. ill stick to where im comfortable untill there is a release lol
[16:37] <oimon> it helps if you understand . as a shorthand for the current directory, and that . doesn't usually exist in the path (for good reason). if it did, you could just type <script>
[16:37] <Azelphur> DragonKeeper: :)
[16:41] <DragonKeeper> whats the command for the program usb creator ..  im sure its preinstalled :s
[16:41] <directhex> usb-creator-gtk
[16:41] <DragonKeeper> ahh ty
[16:42] <Azelphur> DragonKeeper: where abouts in uk are you btw?
[16:42]  * Azelphur is curious
[16:42] <DragonKeeper> london
[16:42] <Azelphur> fun
[16:42] <DragonKeeper> i guess
[16:42] <Azelphur> that's where all the interesting stuff happens haha
[16:43] <DragonKeeper> yeah dunno where i find time to be on irc  to much fun going on
[16:43]  * DragonKeeper notes the sarcasm
[16:43] <Azelphur> haha
[16:43]  * oimon looks at the sunny weather outside
[16:43] <Azelphur> the ubuntu release parties / bug jams / other goes on in London usually
[16:43] <AlanBell> and this one is no exception
[16:45] <DragonKeeper> Azelphur public access, tickets, or invite only ??
[16:45] <davmor2> the sun it burns
[16:45] <Azelphur> DragonKeeper: never seen a Ubuntu meet that wasn't public access
[16:45]  * DragonKeeper is a vampire and almost died going outside
[16:45] <Azelphur> DragonKeeper: although usually they like you to put your name on the wiki so they know roughly how many are gonna turn up.
[16:46] <DragonKeeper> Azelphur cool  you know when next one is  o.O  ?
[16:46] <AlanBell> s/wiki/loco directory/
[16:46] <Azelphur> DragonKeeper: AlanBell just put it in the topic xD http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/889/detail/
[16:46] <AlanBell> I *just* added it to the topic!
[16:47] <DragonKeeper> i might go   its soon
[16:47] <davmor2> DragonKeeper: possible around the time the bunting goes up to celebrate Natty's release
[16:47] <AlanBell> DragonKeeper: we arranged a bank holiday for you on the following day as well
[16:47] <oimon> yeah, and the bank holiday we get to celebrate the natty release too
[16:47] <oimon> AlanBell: beat me by 2 seconds
[16:47] <Azelphur> AlanBell: we can make bank holidays now? nice :p
[16:47] <DragonKeeper> :P
[16:47] <oimon> Azelphur: apparently we can print money too
[16:48] <Azelphur> that's handy.
[16:48] <DragonKeeper> you can print 3d objects as well ... big deal  lol
[16:53] <Azelphur> todays like the waiting game xD
[16:53] <Azelphur> waiting for bukkit update so I can update my minecraft server
[16:54] <Azelphur> waiting for portal 2 fix so I can play it
[16:54] <ali1234> waiting for delivery on mac mini so i can try out Xcode
[16:54] <Azelphur> waiting for steam to stop sucking and let me connect so I can actually play some games xD
[16:54] <oimon> hmm having problems choosing a corporate drive imaging solution - any suggestions?
[16:55] <Azelphur> oimon: dd?
[16:55] <oimon> sorry forgot to clarify  ,for windows machines
[16:55] <ali1234> "corporate drive imaging" - send CEO to golf course with digital camera
[16:55] <Azelphur> ali1234: ++ XD
[16:55] <oimon> enterprise :P
[16:55] <Azelphur> oimon: but still dd just use a livecd
[16:55] <ali1234> dd doesn't care what OS you use
[16:55] <oimon> Azelphur: time is money
[16:56] <ali1234> dd is the fastest and easiest to use software, and also the cheapest
[16:56] <oimon> turns out that acronis requires 1 licence per machine that you image onto
[16:56] <Azelphur> ^
[16:56] <Azelphur> oimon: and it doesn't require licensing either.
[16:56] <davmor2> ali1234: did you just say fastest?
[16:56] <ali1234> you can also automate it with a script
[16:56] <davmor2> oimon: Clonezilla
[16:56] <oimon> ali1234: dd is not the fastest when you want to PXE boot multiple machines over network
[16:56] <ali1234> drive imaging has nothing to do with PXE boot
[16:57] <Azelphur> ^
[16:57] <oimon> davmor2: have you used clonezilla in a corp. environment?
[16:57] <oimon> ali1234: drive imaging solution does involve methods of delivery in an efficient manner to multiple machines
[16:57] <Azelphur> ali1234: no it doesn't
[16:57] <Azelphur> drive imaging involves drive imaging xD
[16:58] <davmor2> oimon: Nope I have a friend who uses FOG in a corporate environment though
[16:58] <oimon> tempted by clonezilla but if it's less than 100% good i look like a chump
[16:59] <davmor2> oimon: clonezilla just seems to work, I've not tried the server version with the added bells and whistles though
[16:59] <oimon> davmor2: in the dim and distant past (prob >3 years ago), i tried clonezilla and it failed on me..so i'm a bit wary
[17:00] <davmor2> oimon: I've not had it fail to date but I've only used it for maybe a 2 years
[17:00] <davmor2> oimon: http://www.fogproject.org/
[17:01] <oimon> if clonezilla uses dd i don't see how it should have any probs
[17:01] <DragonKeeper> Azelphur had to use unetbootin to make a usb from iso    usb creator didnt recognise  that o/s as a linux version o.O
[17:01] <ali1234> "For unsupported file system, sector-to-sector copy is done by dd in Clonezilla."
[17:01] <Azelphur> yea I usually use unetbootin :(
[17:01] <Azelphur> :)*
[17:01] <davmor2> oimon: it uses dd as a fallback if none of the others work, things like clonentfs are faster than dd
[17:02] <oimon> sweet
[17:02] <DragonKeeper> Azelphur slow as hell tho
[17:03] <oimon> DragonKeeper: i had the same prob on lucid - something to do with syslinux bug?
[17:03] <davmor2> oimon: My friend uses fog to remotely backup servers and desktops in order to redeploy on updated machines etc
[17:03] <oimon> davmor2: i might try a image-off between the 2
[17:04] <oimon> fed up with good money being spent on acronis licences
[17:04] <DragonKeeper> oimon   said not a valid GNC/LINUX   then i just tried it anyway and laptop said cant  find a system file  so im on attempt 2
[17:04] <dogmatic69> popey: only just joined facebook?
[17:04] <davmor2> DragonKeeper: usb creator only works on Ubuntu live iso's if your trying something else it won't work
[17:04] <popey> left and rejoined dogmatic69
[17:04] <dogmatic69> ah
[17:04] <dogmatic69> too much withdrawals eh
[17:05] <DragonKeeper> davmor2 ok  im trying #!
[17:05] <popey> needed to ask my wife what was for tea ;)
[17:05] <dogmatic69> lol
[17:05] <MooDoo> dogmatic69: facebook is rubbish and convenient at the same time
[17:05] <davmor2> popey: they've invented this wonderful devise a phone I think they call it :P
[17:06] <MooDoo> davmor2: `what's wrong with cups and string?  new fangled gadgets
[17:06] <dogmatic69> MooDoo: just dont add 5000 people
[17:06] <MooDoo> dogmatic69: there is that......
[17:07] <davmor2> MooDoo: string prices have trebled since you made that comment
[17:07] <popey> davmor2: yes, I have facebook on my phone ;)
[17:07] <MooDoo> is all this info about dropbox storing their keys on the server right then?
[17:08] <davmor2> MooDoo: got to store them some where ;)
[17:08] <MooDoo> he says reading this this morning - http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2011/Apr-19.html
[17:22] <DragonKeeper> Azelphur i just get a boot error with this iso o.O
[17:22] <Azelphur> DragonKeeper: weird, lots of people here use crunchbang so maybe someone can help :p
[17:24] <DragonKeeper> Azelphur i will try  it from a CD  i think it might be the laptop not booting from my usb
[17:25] <Azelphur> :)
[17:25] <DragonKeeper> the thing is ancient compared to me desktop
[17:31] <DragonKeeper> but at lest it has a DL drive
[17:39] <hamitron> popey uses facebook now? :-o
[17:42] <markie-> hamitron, yea but he only accepts the friend requests from those he knows in real life, which is quite fair, i suppose
[17:43] <gord> people accept friend requests from random people on facebook? o_O
[17:44] <markie-> women do it all the time
[17:44] <brobostigon> gord: or peoplei am interesred in, yes.
[17:44] <DragonKeeper> Azelphur  just as i suspected .. disk works
[17:44] <brobostigon> gord: i dont accept random people, no.
[17:44]  * hamitron still facebook free
[17:44] <hamitron> :D
[17:44] <markie-> Yea I don't have one either, am i missing out?
[17:45]  * brobostigon uses facebook as a valid communication and information gathering tool.
[17:45] <hamitron> the BBC helped me decide to not use facebook
[17:46] <hamitron> once the likes of them start quoting a facebook page for a program, it has gone too far
[17:46]  * brobostigon has his facebook pretty locked down.
[17:46] <Azelphur> gah, steam is stupid :(
[17:46] <Azelphur> "Cannot connect to the steam network" <Retry> <Start in offline mode> *clicks offline mode* "Cannot connect to steam network"
[17:47] <hamitron> so I've decided, not using anything that requires farcebook
[17:49] <markie-> some people find love on facebook and marry, and then go on to live very happy lives :)
[17:49] <dogmatic69> hamitron: i wish i could use twitter/fb to log in
[17:49] <popey> most dont
[17:49] <hamitron> dogmatic69: to login to what?
[17:49] <dogmatic69> bbc
[17:50] <dogmatic69> im the opposite, if it does not have oAuth/openid I'm not really interested
[17:50] <hamitron> I can't see how having to login to pages helps make information freely available to the majority
[17:52] <hamitron> and I don't like putting all my trust in 1 site/company
[17:52] <dogmatic69> the login is just to show you recommendations
[17:53] <dogmatic69> for the bbc one
[17:54] <hamitron> it is still dangerous making 1 site a standard for the whole of the internet
[17:54] <dogmatic69> well stackoverflow are good, they have almost all + openid that you can host your self
[17:54] <hamitron> putting aside the attitude of the owner, it makes one big fat target
[17:56] <hamitron> dogmatic69: openid isn't something I have a problem with
[17:56] <hamitron> :)
[17:57] <dogmatic69> i just dont like filling out 10k signup forms
[17:57] <hamitron> yeh
[17:58] <hamitron> but I still think the bbc should not be giving out websites for their programs as www.facebook.com/someprogram
[18:00] <dogmatic69> anyone know how to scp a file when ssh needs -i <key> in it?
[18:01] <dogmatic69> scp <source> ssh -i <key> <user>@<server>:~/ says permission denied
[18:01] <dogmatic69> ssh -i <key> <user>@<server> works though
[18:04] <dogmatic69> nobody :(
[18:04] <hamitron> does it need ssh in it?
[18:04] <dogmatic69> idk
[18:04] <dogmatic69> does not work witout it
[18:06] <hamitron> scp <source> -i <key> <user>@<server>:~/
[18:06] <dogmatic69> nope
[18:06] <dogmatic69> permission denied
[18:06] <dogmatic69> its not using the -i bit
[18:07] <hamitron> what about putting the <source> after the key?
[18:07] <dogmatic69> tried that too
[18:07] <dogmatic69> ah well, got to go now
[18:07] <dogmatic69> getting kicked out
[18:07] <dogmatic69> thanks
[18:08] <hamitron> bbl, food
[18:11] <hohoho> someone from the uk?
[18:11] <Azelphur> hohoho: most of the people here are?
[18:14] <czajkows1i> ivanka: ping
[18:14] <ivanka> hello czajkows1i
[18:15] <czajkows1i> ivanka: poke luisbg on irc just told him
[18:15] <ivanka> czajkows1i: thank you! Someone has volunteered to help me out but will ping luisbg too
[18:16] <czajkows1i> ivanka: he's on irc waiting on a pm from you now
[18:16] <ivanka> czajkows1i: we are chatting
[18:16] <czajkows1i> sweet
[18:17] <czajkows1i> I have a use :)
[18:19] <brobostigon> wow, onthe news theyjust said, in southampton, there are 21 tesco's stores, amazing.
[18:20] <Azelphur> need moar tesco.
[18:20] <brobostigon> hmm.
[18:20] <brobostigon> imagine the stifled competition in southampton, competition willbe non-existant.
[18:29] <gr33npeace> afternoon all
[18:30] <gr33npeace> installing ubuntu on an acer aspire 1551 at the moment, but can't connect to the wifi.  the "rfkill list" function says it's soft-blocked... but "sudo rfkill unblock all" doesn't get me anywhere
[18:31] <gr33npeace> any pointers?
[18:33]  * hamitron isn't coding atm
[18:45] <hamitron> geeez, too much email
[18:45] <hamitron> :(
[18:46] <hamitron> unread emails going up 5 per day
[18:53] <davmor2> hamitron: only 5 my god your a wimp man
[19:05] <hamitron> davmor2: I get more than that, I am just not reducing my backlog :)
[19:06] <hamitron> had a lot of orders recently, so flooded with invoices to print
[19:50] <Azelphur> hmm, this years ubuntu party venue seems smaller than last years by the photos xD
[19:50] <Azelphur> or are the photos lies?
[19:50] <hamitron> party?
[19:50] <Azelphur> hamitron: /topic xD
[19:51] <hamitron> on the edge of the world \o/
[19:53] <AlanBell> Azelphur: it is apparently quite large and spread over three floors
[19:54] <AlanBell> I didn't go to the one 6 months ago, but the one 12 months ago was rather smaller
[19:55] <Azelphur> AlanBell: yea I went to 9.04 and it was jam packed :D
[19:55] <Azelphur> but yea 3 floors sounds better
[20:01] <hamitron> reckon going to the release party, and its costs could be put down as a business expense?
[20:22] <hamitron> Azelphur: you use wine on 64 bit ubuntu?
[20:23] <hamitron> tbh, seems a lot do according to the appdb
[20:24] <hamitron> so :)
[20:29] <X3N> guy on train next to me is using ubuntu on an aspire one
[20:30] <shauno> guy on the train next to me keeps trying to read over my shoulder :/
[20:31] <hamitron> shauno: type something rude and offensive
[20:31] <hamitron> "HEY YOU NOSEY *, LOOK AWAY!!!"
  I kid :)  just thought it'd be a funny mental picture if they were both in here
[20:33] <hamitron> ah :))
[20:33] <hamitron> y brain is fried :/
[20:33] <hamitron> my*
[20:34] <X3N> hah
[20:35] <hamitron> I moved 2 bags of pea gravel yesterday around the back of the house, and today 7 sacks of flasking plaster up into loft
[20:35] <DragonKeeper> whats a good program to stream video to another pc  ?
[20:35] <hamitron> hurting all over
[20:35] <hamitron> vlc
[20:35] <hamitron> well, vlc is easy
[20:35] <hamitron> ;/
[20:36] <hamitron> prob not the best or even good
[20:36] <DragonKeeper> i mean like media centre kinda thing ,,, same as windows media centre does
[20:36] <brobostigon> ffmpeg which vlc uses,is a good streaming medium.
[20:36] <X3N> rygel
[20:37] <hamitron> brobostigon: I found it lacks quality, or did when i tried
[20:37] <X3N> is a really good media server (upnp)
[20:38] <hamitron> right, brain is dying, need coffee
[20:38] <n1md4> hello.  Anyone had a problem with empathy, one where you can't access the account settings?  I click on accounts, but nothing happens!
[20:38] <hamitron> brb
[20:38] <brobostigon> hamitron: i havent tried it in a while, but last time i did, it streamed the video iget with get_iplayer, same quality over my lan.
[20:38] <DragonKeeper> ill try rygel  ty
[20:38] <brobostigon> !info rygel
[20:42] <ali1234> i approve of this
[20:42] <ali1234> most upnp solutions leave out the mediarenderer part, which makes them useless
[20:42] <ali1234> this one doesn't
[20:47] <DragonKeeper> how would i connect to rygel from another pc ?
[21:19] <shauno> blah.  NTL playing silly buggers again
[21:19] <hamitron> :/
[21:39]  * DJones is shocked to read that Elizabeth Sladen has died
[21:40] <MartijnVdS> DJones: where do you read that?
[21:40] <DJones> BBC breaking news
[21:40] <DJones> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-13137674
[21:52] <MartijnVdS> :(
[22:07] <dwatkins> Yeah, she was awesome, and will be missed.
[22:22] <Azelphur> http://entertainment.slashdot.org/story/11/04/19/1736244/Skynet-Becomes-Aware-Launches-Nuclear-Attack
[22:22] <Azelphur> oh dear, we're screwed xD
[22:25] <gord> hrm, i seem to have a weird video file. its encoded at around 133kbps but streaming it at around 1.5mbps causes xbmc to stutter and buffer all the time...
[22:31] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Tony] Elisabeth Sladen - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2011/04/19/elisabeth-sladen/
[22:37] <Seeker`> Portal 2 \/
[22:37] <Azelphur> Seeker`: doesn't work for half the planet :D
[22:37] <Seeker`> wut?
[22:37] <Seeker`> why not?
[22:37] <dwatkins> Azelphur: it doesn't?
[22:37] <Azelphur> dwatkins: http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1847517
[22:38] <brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
[22:38] <popey> lol FAT32
[22:38] <popey> it should say...
[22:38] <Azelphur> "Anything not NTFS" :P
[22:38] <popey> "Originally Posted by BurtonJ
[22:39] <popey> Are you from the past?"
[22:39] <Seeker`> Hmm
[22:39] <Seeker`> like I said
[22:39] <Seeker`> Portal 2 \o/
[22:39] <Azelphur> :D
[22:39] <Azelphur> would be \o/ if I could play it :(
[22:40] <dwatkins> Azelphur: thanks, I'm waiting for it to decrypt, but have an hfs root disk...
[22:40] <Seeker`> Its goooooooooooooooooooooood
[22:40] <Azelphur> yay there's a valve reply on that thread that they are working on the issue
[22:40] <Azelphur> so hopefully it'll be fixed in an update :D
[22:40] <dwatkins> Azelphur: yeah, I hope so - I imagine it's a bit embarassing considering the number of people likely to be affected
[22:41] <popey> /6/5
[22:41] <popey> bah
[22:41] <Azelphur> hehe
[22:41] <dwatkins> Chances are there is a significant percentage of players hit by this, therefore it's in their interst to pull-out all the stops and work their behinds off to get it sorted asap
[22:41] <dwatkins> *interest
[22:42] <Azelphur> obviously since I'm using ext4 and wine, it doesn't work for me xD
[22:42] <Seeker`> really? How many people use FAT32 still that don't have an NTFS drive at all?
[22:42] <Azelphur> Seeker`: don't most external drives ship as FAT32 now days?
[22:43] <Seeker`> why are people installing games on external drives?
[22:43] <Azelphur> because portal is pretty big and a lot of people buy machines with small internal drives
[22:43] <Azelphur> and an external one is a easy solution to that
[22:44] <Seeker`> :/
[22:44] <Seeker`> Seriously?  Not likely
[22:48] <gord> ... no they don't
[22:48] <Azelphur> sure they do
[22:48] <Seeker`> 7 DVDs worth?
[22:48] <ali1234> 40GB for a game... no
[22:48] <gord> 20gb is an exception, most still hit 4-8gb
[22:48] <Azelphur> ali1234: *points at blurays*
[22:48] <popey> why not just delete the games if you're not playing them
[22:48] <gord> thats only ps3 exclusive games that hit that Azelphur
[22:48] <ali1234> unless you count the orange box and all extras as "a game" then no
[22:48] <Seeker`> Azelphur: link me to a PC game shipped on a Bluray rom amazon or play
[22:48] <Azelphur> ali1234: WoW for example is 23.8GB :D
[22:48] <Seeker`> Azelphur: no, it isn't
[22:49] <Seeker`> Azelphur: delete your cache folders and it'll shrink a lot
[22:49] <Azelphur> ok then I'm imagining looking at the properties for my world of warcraft folder
[22:49] <Azelphur> :D
[22:49] <Azelphur> cache folder is 16.2MB lol
[22:49] <Seeker`> not that one
[22:49] <shauno> wow's roughly half that.  most likely you've never cleaned out any of the patches it downloads
[22:49] <Seeker`> The WTF one (I think)
[22:49] <gord> i installed a game over the weekend and was shocked that it was 10gb, >6-8gb is still the exception
[22:49] <Azelphur> but yea, normal users arn't going to be deleting the cache folder
[22:50] <Azelphur> Seeker`: I dunno why your trying to debate it with me lol, you asked me why it's a problem and I told you :p
[22:50] <Seeker`> You have 4TB of games you play regularly atm?
[22:50] <Azelphur> No?
[22:50] <Azelphur> and I never said I did :o
[22:50] <ali1234> it's a problem because some guy can afford to buy 1000s of games on steam but is too cheap to buy a new HD which probably cost the same as 1 game
[22:50] <ali1234> lulz
[22:50] <shauno> fwiw my steam folder is just shy of 40Gb, and that's only a small handful of games
[22:50] <hamitron> the 4Tb includes his pr0n collection ;)
[22:51] <Seeker`> If you can't play portal 2, move something you won't want to play for the next 15 hours off the drive temporarily
[22:51] <hamitron> like.... portal 1
[22:51] <Azelphur> Seeker`: yea, I can't myself because I don't have any NTFS partitions and it'd be irritating to get one I'd rather wait :p
[22:52] <Azelphur> but just pointing out that shitloads of people can't play atm and it took up until a few minutes ago to figure out it was FS related
[22:52] <hamitron> won't only Mac users be affected?
[22:52] <Azelphur> hamitron: and Linux *Waves*
[22:53] <hamitron> not officially supported ;)
[22:53] <Azelphur> hamitron: and most of the people who install games to an external HDD because they are usually FAT32
[22:53] <shauno> it's not affecting mac users, we don't use fat32 :p
[22:53] <ali1234> heh, so basically they royally screwed up the release?
[22:54] <ali1234> is this why it fails in wine too?
[22:54] <Seeker`> ali1234: "royally screwed up"?
[22:54] <Seeker`> If you are installing games you currently want to play to an external drive, you are doing it wrong
[22:54] <Azelphur> ali1234: yea, It seems to be the same issue
[22:54] <hamitron> how dare you Seeker`!!!!!
[22:54] <hamitron> sub 3 ftw ;)
[22:54] <hamitron> usb*
[22:55] <ali1234> i would say that "fails to run from filesystems other than NTFS" = royally screwed up
[22:55] <gord> get, i just scp'ed a file from my media server to my netbook, whilst my netbook was cd'ed into the media servers samba share. concluding one giant pointless roundtrip =\
[22:55] <Seeker`> what fs do macs run on?
[22:55] <gord> should never do network admin late at night
[22:55] <Azelphur> ali1234: me too :D
[22:56] <Seeker`> Any window computer sold in that last, what? decade? shipped with NTFS. It works on Macs
[22:57] <ali1234> i don't get it what are we arguing about anyway?
[22:57] <ali1234> my computer didn't ship with NTFS
[22:57] <shauno> macs use hfs+
[22:57] <shauno> no ntfs here either :)
[22:57] <Azelphur> ali1234:  me either XD
[22:58] <popey> :( Elisabeth Sladen
[22:58] <Seeker`> it fails on people installing stuff to external drives - I think it is very unliely that someone has a computer that is capable of running portal 2 that *has* to install portal2 on an external drive, and can't shift any other data on to an external drive
[22:58] <Seeker`> ali1234: what did it ship with?
[22:58] <popey> Seeker`: i can believe people install portal2 to an external drive
[22:59] <popey> people hoard tv programmes and films
[22:59] <popey> they fill their disks with crap they download
[22:59] <Azelphur> exactly xD
[22:59] <hamitron> :D
[22:59] <popey> and chuck cheap usb disks at it to 'fix' the issue
[22:59] <Seeker`> popey: yeah, but they could shift the crap to an external drive, rather than portal 2
[22:59] <popey> they could
[22:59] <popey> but they are normal people
[22:59] <czajkowski> popey: had any luck with a mini 9 usb giving it life?
[22:59] <popey> they put their clothes on the floor
[22:59] <ali1234> typical computer still comes with what, 250GB hard drive?
[22:59] <Seeker`> popey: you mean brainless? :P
[22:59] <popey> not the cupboard where it makes sense
[22:59] <czajkowski> jammy dodgers are way too addictive
[22:59] <Azelphur> Seeker`: most people don't know that it's that causing the problem
[22:59] <gord> ... clothes don't go on the floor?
[22:59] <popey> no, just not aspergers sufferers
[22:59] <ali1234> please try expanding the internal storage on a mac mini
[23:00] <Azelphur> Seeker`: the game just hard crashes, or puts up a relatively useless error message
[23:00] <Seeker`> ali1234: £300 computer from PC world comes with > 300GB
[23:00] <popey> Seeker`: today
[23:00] <ali1234> so what?
[23:00] <Azelphur> so nobody actually knows this unless they are geeks that follow the forum thread :D
[23:00] <popey> many people didnt buy their computer today
[23:00] <gord> czajkowski, mentioning jammy dodgers when the shops are shut and i can not go out and buy some. you madam, are getting added to "the list".
[23:00] <popey> Seeker`: stop being captain logic, it doesnt work
[23:00] <ali1234> basically you're saying that anyone who doesn't know how to install a new internal hard drive deserves not to be able to play portal 2
[23:00] <hamitron> captain logic, haha
[23:00] <ali1234> and people call me a troll
[23:01] <popey> awww, do they?
[23:01]  * popey hugs ali1234
[23:01] <popey> I probably have in the past tbh ;)
[23:01] <Azelphur> haha
[23:01] <hamitron> ali1234: I just call you a misrible git ;)
[23:01] <czajkowski> gord: awwwwwwwwwwwww.... but surely there is a 24hr
[23:01] <popey> not fair!
[23:01] <czajkowski> gord: and you surely have a secret stash of cake somewhere in your place
[23:01] <Azelphur> be interesting to see how well/if portal 2 runs in wine once this bug is fixed though :D
[23:01] <Azelphur> Shame I wanted to show off about portal 2 working on day 1 in wine :(
[23:01] <gord> i have a not so secret stash of cookie dough ice-cream...
[23:01] <Seeker`> ali1234: No, i'm saying that the odds of someone filling the hard drive with stuff that absolutely *cannot* be moved to an external drive is slim, so instead of shifting the game to the external drive, they can shift some other data to the drive
[23:02] <ali1234> have you ever tried copying 500GB of data over USB?
[23:02] <hamitron> are there no computers with SSD only?
[23:02] <ali1234> it takes several hours
[23:02] <czajkowski> gord: I also have custard creams
[23:02] <popey> alan@bishop:~$ grep ali1234\> irclogs/freenode/#ubuntu-uk.log | grep -ic ":)"
[23:02] <popey> 730
[23:02] <ali1234> and as pointed out, the people this is affecting may not even realise what the problem is
[23:02] <Seeker`> ali1234: well, they only need to clear off enough for portal 2
[23:03] <ali1234> but they don't know they need to do it
[23:03] <Seeker`> ali1234: if that is what they want to play. 10GB doesn't take that long.
[23:03] <hamitron> my 2.2ghz c2d comp came with a 80gb hdd, does that meet min spec?
[23:03] <popey> Seeker`: you are conflating two issues
[23:03] <Azelphur> popey: summary ali1234 smiles a lot? :D
[23:03] <popey> the "can't" and "won't" move data
[23:03] <popey> yes Azelphur, more than you'd think!
[23:03] <ali1234> and the "don't know that's what they need to do so why would they"
[23:03] <Azelphur> indeed
[23:03] <gord> czajkowski, yeah thats okay to mention, i always have custard creams ;)
[23:03] <Azelphur> Seeker`: how people are supposed to know to move data given a hard crash, or "R6025 -pure virtual function call" I don't know xD
[23:04] <popey> i think you massively overestimate peoples skill with computers Seeker`
[23:04] <hamitron> are they intending to fix the bug? or just put a check with readable error message in place?
[23:04] <popey> this is common in the young :)

[23:04] <Azelphur> hamitron: all that was said is they are looking into it
[23:05] <Azelphur> hamitron: I'd assume they'd fix it though.
[23:05] <Seeker`> popey: I'm assuming that people that know how to use steam know how to google
[23:05] <gord> valve are good people, they will fix it, whatever it is
[23:05] <popey> Seeker`: BZZZZT fail
[23:05] <hamitron> I'd guess it may depend on if it means redownloading the whole thing
[23:05] <popey> you assume bad
[23:05] <gord> Seeker`, seriosuly, never assume anything when it comes to what people can do with computers
[23:05] <ali1234> well hey i'm glad i didn't preorder it
[23:05] <popey> heh
[23:06] <ali1234> i'm certain valve will fix this
[23:06] <gord> just read the results from ubuntu/unity user testing we do at canonical, its very supprising
[23:06] <hamitron> is there still a free pc copy with a ps3 copy?
[23:06] <ali1234> but tomorrow it's going to be "portal 2 release marred by bugs" instead of "portal 2 release best thing ever" on all the tech blogs
[23:06] <gord> hamitron, yup
[23:06] <hamitron> gord: I am half tempted to get a ps3 copy.... just not got a ps3 :/
[23:06] <Seeker`> ali1234: its been out for about 17 hours, and it hasn't been reported as "marred by bugs"
[23:07] <Azelphur> gord: the one where most people crashed it? XD
[23:07] <shauno> this is the first I've heard of it :)
[23:07] <ali1234> i've heard a lot of people saying "OMG i can;t play portal 2"
[23:07] <Seeker`> I've been hanging out in the ARG irc channels and haven't heard about the bug
[23:07] <ali1234> but they are all using wine soo.....
[23:08]  * hamitron sighs
[23:08] <gord> hamitron, without the ps3 you won't get the pc copy
[23:08] <hamitron> *why* are new game releases so bugged these days?
[23:08] <hamitron> gord :(
[23:08] <gord> you have to sign into steam on your ps3 and that activates the pc copy
[23:08] <shauno> not seen it mentioned on quakenet yet
[23:08] <hamitron> guess I need a free ps3 then
[23:08] <Azelphur> http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l280/MH_Strife/valve-lul.png?t=1303249919 shiny screenshots xD
[23:09] <Seeker`> "so bugged"? There is 1 bug.
[23:09] <gord> Azelphur, they were running with pre-release code, that was a mistake, course it was gonna crash
[23:09] <ali1234> one bug that we know of
[23:09] <Seeker`> which affects some small subset of people
[23:09] <Azelphur> gord: I agree
[23:09] <ali1234> we are all talking about it you can bet other people are too
[23:09] <Seeker`> ali1234: talking about it, maybe
[23:09] <hamitron> is there any reason to not have ntfs on an external drive?
[23:10] <shauno> Azelphur: here's my screenie; http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23042/Screen%20shot%202011-04-19%20at%2023.09.27.png
[23:10]  * hamitron holds up the flame shield
[23:10] <Seeker`> but how many people here are trying to play on a supported platform and are unable to when there is a viable solution?
[23:10] <shauno> obviously the answer here is that windows is bad for gaming, and you should get a mac :p
[23:10] <hamitron> shauno: :(
[23:10] <Azelphur> shauno: fuuuuuuuuuuuu :p
[23:10] <hamitron> no mac!
[23:10] <ali1234> hamitron: i don't think games are more buggy
[23:10] <Azelphur> shauno: I'm on Linux though and it won't work for me :D
[23:10] <shauno> :)   the irony was too much for me
[23:11] <ali1234> i think you just hear about it more because of the internet
[23:11] <ali1234> and also, bugs get fixed a lot faster now too
[23:11] <ali1234> like, if this was a bug in the boxed copy of the game and it was 1998, have fun waiting 2 months for a patch
[23:11] <hamitron> ali1234: codemasters aren't fixing the bugs in F1 2010, said they will fix them for F1 2011 ;)
[23:11] <ali1234> where as this will probably be fixed inside 24 hours
[23:12] <shauno> negative impact is always disproportionate in volume.  anyone who isn't having problems relocating things to fat32 volumes is staying nice & quiet & busy with their new game
[23:12] <ali1234> yeah well if you play those sporting franchises you can expect to get reamed for updates every year
[23:12] <hamitron> ali1234: yeh :(
[23:12] <ali1234> that's an entirely different issue
[23:12] <hamitron> ali1234: but this was the first F1 game on PC since 2002!!!!!!!!
[23:13] <hamitron> but I have personally found new games to have more major bugs on release
[23:13] <shauno> has F1 changed much since 2002?
[23:13] <hamitron> but I am maybe just unlucky with my selection of games
[23:14] <hamitron> shauno: hell yes, I believe there have been a few overtaking cars
[23:14] <hamitron> ;)
[23:15] <hamitron> tbh, the PC hardware has moved on more than the sport....
[23:15] <hamitron> which is why i wanted the upgrade
[23:17] <shauno> only just picked up portal 'bout half hour ago.    :P
[23:30] <Azelphur> Bulldog: I wouldn't advise it on Linux, at least not yet. >2 display support on Linux is terribad.
[23:30] <hamitron> mine normally make a pop sound, go black and smell nice
[23:31] <willy1977> hamitron: fraid not mate, I'm on 1280 by 768 here at the minute :p
[23:31] <Azelphur> hamitron: after a really long time CRT's get tube burnout, the image gets darker and darker over time until it's impossible to see :)
[23:31] <Azelphur> My laptop does 1920x1200 :D
[23:31] <hamitron> Azelphur: I obviously abuse mine then :)
[23:31] <Azelphur> I was very pedantic that I got a laptop with decent resolution
[23:31] <Azelphur> hamitron: by the time I shifted my CRTs I was running xgamma -gamma 2 to make it visible
[23:32] <willy1977> nah hamitron that's how mine went in the end hence I've commandeered an old 23" tv to use :p
[23:32] <Bulldog> Azelphur  erm  i thought ubuntu supported quad graphics card
[23:32] <ali1234> hamitron: only about 1B. but i buy a plex every month
[23:32] <Azelphur> (xgamma -gamma 2 is also excellent hax for minecraft, it's like having a torch)
[23:32] <Azelphur> Bulldog: sure for CUDA, but not so much for displays.
[23:32] <hamitron> ali1234: i was finding earning 2 plex a month hard work
[23:32] <Azelphur> Bulldog: what ever you do you are going to have to make big sacrifices to get a >2 display setup
[23:33] <hamitron> but I was burning ships in pvp also :/
[23:33] <hamitron> and I love ECM, so i was always primary target \o/
[23:33] <Bulldog> Azelphur  what kida sacrifices
[23:33] <Bulldog> kinda*
[23:33] <Azelphur> Bulldog: basically it's a choice between terrible performance and no composite/compiz, or not being able to drag windows between screens.
[23:33] <willy1977> right folks just a quick in and out (ooer missus) catch you around tomorrow.
[23:33] <Bulldog> o.O
[23:34]  * Azelphur waves at willy1977
[23:34] <Azelphur> Bulldog: and the not being able to drag windows between screens option comes with enough bugs to fill a small lake with and nobody will be fixing those bugs any time soon.
[23:35] <Azelphur> so yea my advice is wait till your using a driver that has full xrandr support before you fork out for another display as it'll be largely bricked in Linux until then.
[23:35] <Bulldog> Azelphur  do you ru windows with the 4 screes then o.O
[23:35] <Azelphur> (At least from what I understand, I'm still a bit murky on what exactly xrandr is)
[23:35] <Azelphur> Bulldog: I took the not able to drag windows between screens + buggyness option
[23:36] <Bulldog> Azelphur  how do you make use of the screes then
[23:36] <Azelphur> you open the window on the relevant screen
[23:36] <Bulldog> ahh
[23:36] <Azelphur> Bulldog: it's like having 2 pcs side by side, you can't drag a window between them
[23:37] <Bulldog> that sucks
[23:37] <hamitron> Azelphur: why not run 2 then?
[23:37] <Azelphur> hamitron: huh? :p
[23:37] <Bulldog> lol
[23:37] <Azelphur> oh why not run 2 displays?
[23:37] <Azelphur> part masochist part because I'm so used to having 4
[23:37] <hamitron> 2 comps
[23:37] <hamitron> :)
[23:37] <Azelphur> 2 comps because I don't really wanna run a second comp and I'm a masochist :D
[23:37] <TheOpenSourcerer> This looks worth a punt... http://aful.org/communiques/share-your-operating-system-bundling-tales-with-the-eu
[23:37] <Bulldog> hes got 2 laptops there as well
[23:37] <Azelphur> I'm waiting on xrandr to save me
[23:39] <Azelphur> TheOpenSourcerer: oO, I sound like I'm a perfect candidate I bought an Acer laptop and they refused to refund me
[23:39] <Azelphur> TheOpenSourcerer: I spent ages on the phone, and afterwards they offered for me to pay them to remove Windows xD
[23:39] <TheOpenSourcerer> lol
[23:39] <hamitron> I don't agree with the EU interfering :
[23:39] <hamitron> :/
[23:39] <TheOpenSourcerer> Dell wouldn't play ball with us.
[23:39] <Azelphur> TheOpenSourcerer: I don't remember the exact numbers but they said I had to use their courier service to ship it back to them so they could remove windows and refund me
[23:39] <Azelphur> and cost of shipping was greater than the refund
[23:40] <TheOpenSourcerer> Yeah. It's the same old story.
[23:40] <Azelphur> xD
[23:40] <Bulldog> lol
[23:40] <hamitron> you could just buy stuff from somewhere else guys....
[23:41] <TheOpenSourcerer> hamitron: This is about telling the EU that suppliers are in breach of Competiton rules.
[23:41] <shauno> last I looked, 'somewhere else' was an incredibly short list of options
[23:41] <Bulldog> ebay
[23:41] <Bulldog> :)
[23:41] <TheOpenSourcerer> hamitron: somewhere elsewhere is extremely limited.
[23:41] <hamitron> TheOpenSourcerer: there is nothing to stop a supplier from providing ubuntu exclusively
[23:41] <TheOpenSourcerer> That isn't the point.
[23:42] <shauno> it shouldn't have to be exclusively
[23:42] <Azelphur> TheOpenSourcerer: do you have a template up for the form?
[23:42] <Azelphur> so we don't all have to manually write it :p
[23:42] <Bulldog> you ca get anything from Ebay :)  i oce saw someone trying sell their grannys teeth o.O
[23:43] <Azelphur> Bulldog: the manufacturers ship the laptops with Windows on them, it's very difficult to get one without Windows on it
[23:43] <TheOpenSourcerer> I do not use, nor want windows. But it is almost impossible to buy a decent spec PC without Windows. And since the Win7 EULA extremely hard to get any chance of a refund.
[23:43] <Azelphur> you often can't get certain models of laptops without Windows on them period
[23:43] <TheOpenSourcerer> Azelphur: Nope. Only just came across the page.
[23:43] <hamitron> this is the entire problem with mass production for reduced costs.... everyone has come to expect cheaply built computers, so it is not as worthwhile for a smaller distributor
[23:43] <Azelphur> TheOpenSourcerer: I see :p
[23:44] <TheOpenSourcerer> I'm off to bed now anyway. Will deal with this tomorrow. Just finished building another VM with openERP.
[23:44] <hamitron> tesco sell audio equipment now, and not offer the full service a specialist audio store offers... but the majority going to tesco will force the specialist to close
[23:44] <Azelphur> Bulldog: I sold that acer laptop on and got a higher spec machine for less money though :D
[23:44] <Azelphur> My brother knows a dell outlet guy :)
[23:45] <Bulldog> Azelphur  yh thats laptops. i usually go for desktops as ca build my self (no windows)  laptop i got today guy tried sellig me it with the hdd  but i chucked it away and got £15 off price then put my hdd in with linux
[23:45] <Azelphur> fun
[23:45] <Azelphur> Bulldog: I mostly use a PC too, I just take my laptops with me when traveling
[23:45] <Azelphur> Bulldog: I'm gonna try and get my hands on a inspiron mini duo, you seen those things? they are so cool :D
[23:46] <hamitron> smaller than 15"?
[23:46] <Bulldog> Azelphur  ahh  i dont travel much  i just wanted laptop to relax in garde with ad still watch tv/films  lol
[23:46] <Azelphur> hehe
[23:46] <Azelphur> hamitron: the mini duo is yea
[23:46] <hamitron> how big?
[23:46] <Bulldog> need get this dam n key fixed lol
[23:47] <Azelphur> hamitron: it's a netbook
[23:47] <hamitron> 10"?
[23:47] <hamitron> 12"?
[23:47] <Azelphur> hamitron: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xr78DvvYK6w check it out :D
[23:47] <Azelphur> not sure of the exact size
[23:47] <hamitron> 13"?
[23:47] <Azelphur> KEEP GUESSING THOUGH
[23:47] <hamitron> bah, no bandwidth available atm ;/
[23:47] <Azelphur> lol
[23:47] <hamitron> downloading a dental equipment catalogue
[23:47] <Azelphur> hamitron: the screen has a hinge half way up, and the LCD panel flips inside the screen frame to point backwards, then you close the lid and have a tablet
[23:48] <shauno> http://pdp11.aiju.de/   this is interesting.  someone with far too much time on their hands has emulated a pdp-11 in javascript
[23:48] <hamitron> kinda like the inspiron duo?
[23:48] <Azelphur> hamitron: ..I am talking about the inspiron duo xD
[23:49] <hamitron> inspiron duo is 15" init?
[23:49] <Azelphur> it is?
[23:49] <hamitron> bit pricey
[23:49] <hamitron> :/
[23:49] <Bulldog> 10.1" scree
[23:49] <Bulldog> n
[23:49] <Azelphur> hamitron: that's where I reckon my dell outlet guy can help me
[23:49] <Azelphur> hamitron: we're proper evil to him :D
[23:49] <Azelphur> plus it's my birthday sooon I'm totally using that as leverage
[23:49] <hamitron> if someone sends one back ;/
[23:49] <Azelphur> gief money off it's my birthday etc
[23:50] <Bulldog> http://www.dell.com/us/p/inspiron-duo/pda
[23:50] <hamitron> I got mine from outlet
[23:50] <Azelphur> hamitron: last time he gave me an alienware for £800 and a XPS M1730 for £550
[23:50] <Azelphur> and it wasn't even my birthday!
[23:50] <hamitron> :)
[23:52] <Azelphur> only problem with the mini duo is the battery life isn't great (4 hours) and the battery isn't removable either.
[23:52] <Azelphur> that puts me off a bit
[23:52] <Bulldog> o.O
[23:52] <Azelphur> My old netbook that I sold did 8 hours
[23:52] <hamitron> it has dropped in price since I looked
[23:53] <Azelphur> sacrificing 4 hours for a touch screen seems a bit much
[23:53] <hamitron> was about £600 when i looked
[23:53] <Azelphur> yea now it's more like £350ish
[23:53] <Azelphur> I'm trying to get one for £300
[23:53] <hamitron> £450
[23:53] <Azelphur> haha
[23:54] <Azelphur> I'mma try and get one for £300
[23:54] <Azelphur> hamitron: can get it for 389 new :p
[23:56] <hamitron> £496.97
[23:56] <hamitron> with a few extra included
[23:56] <Azelphur> hamitron: £363 new, and that's the best price for me I reckon I can't get it lower than that :)
[23:56] <Azelphur> you suck at price hunting
[23:56] <hamitron> from dell i am talking!
[23:56] <hamitron> geez
[23:56] <Azelphur> haha
[23:56] <hamitron> but it is the sorta machine you get elsewhere
[23:57] <hamitron> not much to config
[23:57] <Azelphur> so since I can find it for £363 new I figure I can bash the dell outlet guy to give me a refurb unit for 3300 :D
[23:57] <ali1234> i'll sell you a new one for £3300
[23:57] <Azelphur> he does a good job refurbing them too, if they are bashed up he usually gets a new case for the laptop and does it up nice before selling it on, had a number of laptops off him :D
[23:57] <Azelphur> ali1234: that's a lot :o
[23:57] <Azelphur> that's most of my savings :D
[23:58] <Azelphur> oops, I typed 3300 haha
[23:58] <Azelphur> I meant 300


[11:01] <Captain_Crow> whats with the steam games on linux thing, does that mean steam works on all version of linux or only certain ones?
[11:09] <elky> i'd imagine only the ones steam on linux works on
[12:25] <Captain_Crow> i ment what version/distribution of linux are they made for?
[12:31] <Pici> As I understand it, they were tested on Ubuntu, so your experience on other distros may vary.
[13:01] <MrChrisDruif> I think you're correct Pici, but let's hope they'll support different distributions later on.
[13:13] <Captain_Crow> does blender install on linux or is it just supposed to run w/o installing?
[13:18] <MrChrisDruif> I don't know of any software that doesn't need installing. sudo apt-get install blender will probably install it for ya Captain_Crow
[13:22] <Captain_Crow> its installing the old version, i downloaded the new version off blender.org but idk how to install the files
[13:24] <MrChrisDruif> Captain_Crow; http://askubuntu.com/questions/25961/how-to-install-a-tar-gz-or-tar-bz2-file
[13:24] <MrChrisDruif> (You didn't mention that before)
[13:25] <MrChrisDruif> Captain_Crow; And besides, this is an discussion channel not a help channel. Please refer to #ubuntu for further help questions (as I'm actually off)