[06:30] <Nytryx_> anyone awake?
[08:19] <freelove> how do i change the usplash?
[09:02] <pha> hello
[09:03] <pha> Is there a live CD of edubuntu?
[09:04] <crimsun> not that I'm aware for Breezy
[09:06] <Yagisan> no, no live cd for breezy.
[09:10] <pha> Are there plans to make one (live CD)?
[09:13] <freelove> anyone here?
[09:13] <freelove> im on edubuntu:)
[09:13] <Yagisan> pha: it is planned to make one for the next version
[09:14] <Yagisan> pha: but edubuntu uses a full cd when not a live version
[09:14] <Yagisan> pha: so it may be difficult for the developers to make
[09:14] <Yagisan> freelove: yes people are here
[09:15] <freelove> :)
[09:15] <freelove> anyone knows how i can change usplash?
[09:16] <crimsun> install another -artwork-usplash package, then sudo dpkg-reconfigure linux-image-$(uname -r)
[09:16] <Yagisan> thanks crimsun
[09:17] <freelove> crimsun: thanks:).........how will i tell it to have say ubuntu or kubuntu usplash??
[09:17] <freelove> how will it know what uspash i want:?
[09:19] <Yagisan> freelove: try running the command
[09:26] <freelove> Yagisan: it tells me no splash image found....although ive installed kubuntu-usplash-artwork!
[09:27] <crimsun> freelove: is this after a reboot as well?
[09:27] <freelove> crimsun: ya...i installed that kubuntu usplash long back:)
[09:28] <crimsun> freelove: cat /proc/cmdline
[09:30] <freelove> crimsun: root=/dev/hdb2 ro quiet splash
[09:36] <freelove> crimsun u there?
[12:04] <adas> hi
[12:05] <adas> where can i check what does edubuntu brings'
[12:05] <adas> ?
[12:05] <ogra> there is a list of apps on the wiki
[12:05] <adas> i cant find it
[12:05] <adas> :\
[12:06] <adas> found it
[12:06] <adas> thdx
[12:06] <adas> thx
[12:08] <adas> the wiki is great
[12:08] <adas> :)
[12:09] <ogra> :)
[12:09] <ogra> mhz cares for it, he'll be happy to hear :)
[12:10] <adas> i need to install edubuntu on this school
[12:10] <adas> is it possible to get cds?
[12:11] <ogra> see the http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes page before installing then :)
[12:11] <ogra> yes, some shops sell them, we dont have pressed ones through the ubuntu shipit system thouh
[12:11] <ogra> *though
[12:11] <adas> ok thanks
[12:11] <adas> i gtg
[12:11] <adas> break time
[12:11] <adas> :p
[12:11] <ogra> :)
[12:12] <adas> bye
[01:12] <littlepaul> http://www.ubuntuusers.de/viewtopic.php?t=19093 Feedback from Brazilia written in german
[03:13] <mhz> hi all
[03:15] <littlepaul> mhz, some words about the remastering of edubunt cd's for chile
[03:15] <mhz> littlepaul: yes?
[03:16] <littlepaul> i mean - do you have some words about this? :)
[03:17] <mhz> littlepaul: i may have, could you be a little more specific, please? :)
[03:17] <mhz> what would you like to know?
[03:17] <littlepaul> I have read the logs of the last weeks and there you mentioned this. Did you worked on the remastering?
[03:19] <mhz> Oh, nope, we have not remastered anything yet for Chile. We may do it for dapper, though. So far, we are only working on some artwork ideas for light/old hardware and testing current release.
[03:20] <littlepaul> do you have enough hardware for schools in chile? this is just a general question
[03:23] <mhz> enough hardware? if you mean "modern", yes and now. Schools usually have very old hardware (Pentium I or II, 32 or 48 MB ram))
[03:23] <mhz> Private schools have P III or IV
[03:24] <mhz> but about 70% of schools are in the old HW category
[03:24] <littlepaul> this could also mean good chance for edubuntu
[03:27] <mhz> yes and nop
[03:27] <mhz> yes = need of networked env.
[03:28] <mhz> no = default config is GNOME default. Many default apps still require lots of RAM
[03:28] <mhz> etc
[03:29] <littlepaul> k
[03:29] <mhz> we are trying to get as much info as possible from Schools, so we can know what to customize first
[03:30] <ogra> mhz, the desktop apps dont require ram on the clients at all
[03:30] <mhz> littlepaul: we would like to design a survey/poll to ease the process but we are only 3 people here, and there's so much to do... :)
[03:30] <mhz> ogra: I know, iknow. RAM is on the server, plus each client should have minimum 48 MB
[03:31] <ogra> yup
[03:31] <mhz> ogra: current server in a typical School is: IBM NetFinity, Pentium III, de 265 mg Ram y un disco duro de 80 Gb
[03:31] <ogra> the latter depends on the graphics card ...
[03:31] <mhz> yup
[03:31] <littlepaul> mhz, regarding the survey - do you have allready some points?
[03:31] <mhz> on paper, littlepaul :(
[03:32] <littlepaul> :)
[03:32] <littlepaul> mhz, are you interested to colaborate with someone from brazil?
[03:32] <mhz> ogra: so, as you can see, we NEED lots of ram on the server so we can plug 20 clients to it :)
[03:32] <mhz> littlepaul: OF COURSE!!!
[03:32] <mhz> :D
[03:33] <littlepaul> mhz, I'm sure he is also interested :)
[03:33] <mhz> littlepaul: Edubuntu is a project for Schools
[03:34] <littlepaul> mhz, I think he will contact you in the next days
[03:34] <mhz> therefore, besides the Linux points, we work on social areas, so yes, we work with anyone who has an interest on imporving current sad IT levels
[03:34] <mhz> littlepaul: thankz for the interest and in case Spanish is simpler for you, #edubuntu-es it available too
[03:36] <littlepaul> mhz, I understand  a "some" spanish but german would be easier for me...
[03:36] <mhz> ogra: BTW, I am not complaining at all... you know it is not your fault server needs 128 RAM p/client (on good performance basis) :D
[03:36] <mhz> littlepaul: hhmm, Ich sprecht nich deutch :(
[03:36] <ogra> indeed its my fault ;)
[03:36] <ogra> i could have opted to use twm instead of gnome ;)
[03:36] <mhz> hehehe
[03:37] <mhz> that's why we are here... to rescue those lost GNOME souls :)\
[03:38] <mhz> ogra: my guess (still ignorant on how to run a good performance/needs testing) is that with WMaker, I can say 96 RAM is good per client
[03:38] <mhz> but 128 would rock
[03:38] <ogra> i guess its less
[03:38] <littlepaul> mhz one from the german ubuntu association had the idea to collect hardware from europe and to send it e.g. to brazil; this is an interesting thought
[03:43] <mhz> littlepaul: indeed! Actually, I am trying to convince people in Chile to help us work on a project called RecicLab = is 2 areas -> a) Computer Lab made with recycled PC's + b) we invite a kid and his parent of a family (social risk ones) to attend a 10-day-sessions. At the end, they will know how to assmeble a PC and install Ubuntu (light version). Also, if they came to all the sessions, they get a Diploma and the PC to take it home.. it's
[03:43] <mhz> theirs now.
[03:44] <mhz> littlepaul: so yes, if that persona can help us, cool!
[03:44] <mhz> and if we can help him, cool
[03:44] <mhz> :
[03:44] <Lord_Athur> hi
[03:44] <mhz> Lord_Athur: hi there
[03:45] <mhz> Lord_Athur: how was your trip?
[03:45] <Lord_Athur> :D
[03:45] <Lord_Athur> #edubuntu-es
[03:46] <littlepaul> mhz this sounds very interesting; so I'll inform the guy from brazil about your work and I will talk with the german association about your project. If you have furhter information please send them via email to me
[03:49] <mhz> littlepaul: thx. if more info is needed   www.tecnocimiento.cl/TecnocimientoSummary
[03:49] <littlepaul> ok
[04:45] <ivan> Hi, i'm from Russia and probe this canal first
[04:46] <ivan> Everebody are this?
[04:46] <jsgotangco> hiya
[04:46] <ogra> so how does the probing feel ? :)
[04:48] <ivan> Thanks. There are the people! Great!
[04:48] <ogra> :)
[04:48] <jsgotangco> good morning ogra
[04:49] <ogra> he jsgotangco
[04:49] <ogra> *hey
[04:53] <ivan> I was the teacher and director of middle school in Russia. Now I intersting Edubuntu.
[09:03] <claude> hi people :)
[09:03] <claude> does someone know if edubuntu specific strings can be translated through rosetta?
[09:04] <ogra> claude, which ones ?
[09:04] <claude> by example boot messages
[09:04] <ogra> thats not edubuntu specific
[09:05] <claude> see http://wiki.ubuntu-fr.org/edubuntu/traduction
[09:05] <claude> i think this should better occur in rosetta
[09:06] <ogra> err
[09:06] <ogra> thats not edubuntu
[09:06] <ogra> oh, it is
[09:07] <ogra> looks a bit weird on the grey background, sorry
[09:07] <claude> which package contain them?
[09:08] <ogra> thats in the cd build system, we completely changed for dapper ...
[09:08] <ogra> but its not edubuntu specific ... thats ubuntu default
[09:09] <claude> so is it included in a dapper package registered in launchpad, right?
[09:09] <ogra> i have really no idea, i'm a bit astonished, sinc the edubuntu CD hasnt saying edubuntu everywhere
[09:10] <ogra> errr
[09:10] <ogra> is that a livecd ?
[09:10] <ogra> we dont offer any livecd for edubuntu
[09:11] <claude> don't know exactly
[09:11] <ogra> sorry, but i dont speak french
[09:11] <ogra> what do the screens say ?
[09:11] <claude> i have to talk with Manu, which is leading that for French users
[09:11] <ogra> Ceci est un cederom "live" d'Edubuntu construit a partir d'Ubuntu-5.10-live-x86, par l'equipe Edubuntu-fr.
[09:11] <ogra> thats not official at all
[09:11] <ogra> the guy who built that thing broke it
[09:12] <claude> yes, i think this is a project aiming to build a live-cd based on edubuntu in French
[09:12] <ogra> thats silly
[09:12] <ogra> we have a liveCD next weekend
[09:12] <claude> why?
[09:12] <ogra> a official one
[09:12] <claude> :-P
[09:12] <ogra> even in french
[09:13] <ogra> it was long announced that we build one for dapper ...
[09:13] <claude> ok, i will to talk to Manu about that...
[09:13] <ogra> i'm very sad that they waste their manpower and i still do a one man show
[09:14] <ogra> (the last liveCd didnt happen because i do everything on my own and had only 3 months)
[09:14] <ogra> if someone has stepped up to help, we would already have had one for breezy ...
[09:14] <claude> i understand
[09:14] <claude> i just subscribed to the new French Edubuntu mailing list
[09:15] <ogra> there is a french edubuntu mailing list ?
[09:15] <ogra> why the heck dont tey talk to us at all ????
[09:15] <ogra> what a mess
[09:15] <claude> this is a very fresh one
[09:16] <claude> i think it's not too late to add some coordination
[09:16] <ogra> and why dont they work with us like the chilenian or spanish community ?
[09:16] <claude> i told you, it's a very recent effort
[09:16] <lucasvo> ogra: subscribe and write a mail :D
[09:17] <lucasvo> claude: but couldn't ubuntu set up the list?
[09:17] <lucasvo> claude: in that case they would have to move all the members to ubuntu
[09:17] <claude> maybe, but the list is hosted by official French loco team
[09:17] <claude> only 7 members for now
[09:17] <lucasvo> ogra: is there any DE-(ed)ubuntu list?
[09:18] <lucasvo> ah, at least it is a official loco team...
[09:18] <ogra> claude, it cant be *that* recent if they already built a liveCD
[09:18] <ogra> lucasvo, not yet
[09:18] <ogra> but i wanted to introduce one with dapper
[09:19] <lucasvo> ogra: ok, good
[09:19] <lucasvo> is there a list of loco teams?
[09:20] <ogra> somewhere on the wiki, yes
[09:20] <claude> ogra: i will try to learn a bit more about this team and keep you updated about it
[09:21] <ogra> claude, could you invite them to come to one of our meetings ?
[09:21] <ogra> my french isnt good enough i think
[09:22] <lucasvo> ogra: what meetings do you have?
[09:22] <ogra> claude, the meeting is every wednesday 13:00 french time
[09:22] <claude> ogra: when will be the next one ?
[09:22] <claude> ok :)
[09:22] <ogra> it would be nice if someone could sho up ...
[09:22] <ogra> thanks :-D
[09:22] <ogra> lucasvo, edubuntu development meeting
[09:23] <ogra> lucasvo, http://wiki.edubuntu.org/MeetingRecords
[09:23] <lucasvo> ogra: development... hm, what are you talking about? is it only for coders? or as well for users?
[09:23] <ogra> for everyone ...
[09:24] <ogra> if you miss something in edubuntu, thats the plac to ask for it (aside of the mailing list indeed ;) )
[09:25] <lucasvo> ogra: has the mailing list a lot of traffic? (so far I only reading announce :D)
[09:25] <ogra> nope, one two mails a week, sometimes more if a intresting discussion goes on
[09:26] <ogra> its very ow traffic
[09:26] <ogra> *low
[09:27] <lucasvo> ok
[09:28] <lucasvo> ogra: I can't find the date, you have your meetings...
[09:29] <ogra> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event
[09:29] <ogra> :)
[09:29] <ogra> note that all times are UTC
[09:29] <ogra> so its +1 for germany/france
[09:30] <lucasvo> germany/france/switzerland ! :)
[09:30] <ogra> oh, yes, sorry :)
[09:30] <claude> yes, for me too :)
[09:30] <lucasvo> ah, at least not in american afternoon... :)
[09:30] <lucasvo> +the
[09:31] <ogra> nope its american morning (east coast)
[09:31] <claude> lucasvo: where are you from ?
[09:31] <ogra> we have some people in maine
[09:31] <lucasvo> claude: Zurich
[09:31] <lucasvo> claude: you?
[09:31] <ogra> and some in australia ... so that the best match :)
[09:31] <claude> lucasvo: i'm in La Chaux-de-Fonds
[09:31] <lucasvo> australia isn't something like +10 ?
[09:32] <lucasvo> claude: ah
[09:32] <ogra> yup along this line ...
[09:32] <lucasvo> claude: we should make edubuntu-ch
[09:32] <lucasvo> claude: why/where are you using edubuntu?
[09:33] <claude> lucasvo: i'm not using it for now
[09:33] <claude> i'm only interested
[09:33] <lucasvo> claude: win? debian? suse? ubuntu?
[09:33] <claude> mostly win :-((
[09:33] <lucasvo> claude: ah
[09:34] <claude> not at home, of course
[09:34] <lucasvo> claude: what are you using at home?
[09:34] <claude> guess...
[09:34] <lucasvo> claude: ubuntu?
[09:34] <claude> Ubuntu !
[09:34] <claude> :)
[09:34] <ogra> :)
[09:34] <lucasvo> is there any power management support in ubuntu?
[09:35] <lucasvo> claude: apt-get install edubunut-server
[09:35] <claude> lucasvo: i suspect edubuntu is mainly of interest in a network (with ltsp)
[09:36] <lucasvo> claude: yes
[09:36] <lucasvo> claude: and it rocks!
[09:37] <claude> i hope to be able to introduce it in our network
[09:37] <lucasvo> claude: where, at home?
[09:38] <claude> no, at work, in a school
[09:38] <ogra> claude, not at all, edubuntu has a workstation instal option for standalone installs ...
[09:39] <ogra> and the liveCD wont include any server stuff as well
[09:39] <ogra> lucasvo, how do you mean ? power managemen has always been in ubuntu
[09:40] <lucasvo> ogra: lucasvo@lama:~$ sudo apm
[09:40] <lucasvo> No APM support in kernel
[09:40] <ogra> sure
[09:40] <lucasvo> ogra: how can I load apm?
[09:40] <ogra> just suppress loading of acpi modules and load apm
[09:40] <lucasvo> claude: what hw do you have at this schooL?
[09:40] <ogra> bu you only want that on very ancient HW
[09:41] <lucasvo> FATAL: Error inserting acpi_cpufreq (/lib/modules/2.6.12-10-386/kernel/arch/i386/kernel/cpu/cpufreq/acpi-cpufreq.ko): No such device
[09:41] <lucasvo> how can I load apm/acpi?
[09:41] <ogra> apm is dead ...
[09:41] <lucasvo> ogra: 2.4?
[09:41] <lucasvo> ogra: why?
[09:41] <ogra> but if you have an old hardware which still needs it, you can use it
[09:42] <lucasvo> ogra: so how can I suspend?
[09:42] <ogra> because hardware vendors all switched to acpi since ~2000
[09:42] <claude> lucasvo: we have mainly dell machines (gx240->gx280)
[09:42] <lucasvo> FATAL: Error inserting acpi_cpufreq (/lib/modules/2.6.12-10-386/kernel/arch/i386/kernel/cpu/cpufreq/acpi-cpufreq.ko): No such device
[09:42] <lucasvo> claude: mhz, ram, hd?
[09:42] <ogra> if it doesnt work out of the box, please report a bug and talk to mjg59 in #ubuntu-devel
[09:43] <francoisb> hello
[09:43] <claude> lucasvo: pIV 1.7 - 3.0 Ghz / 20-80 Gb
[09:44] <claude> lucasvo: ram 250-500
[09:44] <lucasvo> claude: in that case workstation is much better
[09:44] <claude> yes, but we have still some older hardware
[09:44] <lucasvo> claude: ah, so sell the dell machines an buy a new powerfull server
[09:45] <lucasvo> :D
[09:45] <claude> lol
[09:45] <ogra> yes, and buy some of these: http://disklessworkstations.com/ ;)
[09:45] <ogra> they are cool
[09:46] <claude> still pricey for terminals
[09:46] <claude> think they should buy under 100$
[09:46] <claude> i saw a project about that
[09:47] <claude> just a simple box that can be placed behind the screen
[09:48] <claude> sorry don't remember url
[09:48] <lucasvo> claude: hm, that is interesting, maybe epia?
[09:53] <claude> lucasvo: i found it again : http://www.ndiyo.org/systems
[09:54] <lucasvo> claude: this rocks!!
[09:54] <lucasvo> cool
[09:56] <ogra> ah, yeah, these guys were at the edubuntu summit
[09:59] <lucasvo> but I don't see any "buy now" button :(
[10:00] <ogra> "The nivo is currently in demonstrator form - a fully functioning unit, but not yet available on sale. "
[10:01] <ogra> i read that page hortly before hoary was released, seems there is not much progrees in their marketing ..
[10:01] <lucasvo> too  bad
[10:02] <ogra> but 100 english pound production costs will still result in more than 200 in enduser price
[10:02] <lucasvo> ogra: yes
[10:02] <lucasvo> ogra: but it isn't that much if you compare it with for e.g. epia
[10:02] <ogra> http://www.disklessworkstations.com/cgi-bin/web/200031.html?id=Xta8hU4z thie is the same size ...
[10:03] <ogra> its as big as a postcard
[10:03] <lucasvo> ogra: but not that stylish :D
[10:03] <ogra> its neat, i had it in my hands at ubz
[10:03] <lucasvo> ogra: hm, ok
[10:03] <ogra> jammcq had one with him
[10:04] <lucasvo> when I will make an exchange year in the US will buy one there :D
[10:04] <lucasvo> or let's say, several
[10:04] <ogra> indeed the metal case of the ndiyo is cooler
[10:04] <lucasvo> ogra: mod it!
[10:04] <ogra> hehe, yes ....
[10:04] <ogra> some colorful LEDs
[10:04] <lucasvo> lol
[10:05] <ogra> and a WATERCOOLING !
[10:05] <lucasvo> ogra: just put it into aquarium
[10:05] <ogra> heh
[10:11] <lucasvo> ogra: the pxe diskless workstations all work with edubuntu, the ones in the ltsp category
[10:11] <ogra> yup
[10:12] <lucasvo> btw, is xinerama supported in ltsp? :D
[10:12] <ogra> i didnt test the small ne yet
[10:12] <ogra> nope
[10:12] <ogra> that might be a dapper+1 addon
[10:12] <lucasvo> ogra: why? what would one have to do to get it working/
[10:12] <lucasvo> ?
[10:12] <ogra> hacking the xorg autodetection a bit to generate a scond config
[10:13] <lucasvo> ah
[10:13] <lucasvo> ogra: and install it on image?
[10:13] <ogra> ?
[10:13] <lucasvo> ogra: or couldn't one just set it in the ltsp conf?
[10:13] <ogra> yes, but before the xorg audodetection must support it
[10:18] <lucasvo> ogra: can you change status of bugs: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17232 < it says I should provide xlog and I did
[10:19] <ogra> lucasvo, leave that to the bugowner ... daniels will change the status once he gets to the bug
[10:19] <lucasvo> ogra: so daniels will even look at bugs with need info status?
[10:19] <ogra> ping him in -devel if you want to speed him up but dont tell (him itold you ;)
[10:20] <lucasvo> ogra: ok
[10:20] <lucasvo> ogra: :D
[10:20] <ogra> sure, he has set the status... he wants the info
[10:20] <lucasvo> ogra: this is actually not fair...
[10:20] <lucasvo> ogra: so when he has the info it shouldn't be need info
[10:20] <lucasvo> I could mark it as upstream, or is this bad idea?
[10:20] <ogra> yes
[10:21] <lucasvo> bad?
[10:23] <lucasvo> hm, daniels isn't here :(
[10:46] <lucasvo> A[A
[10:46] <lucasvo> [A[A[A
[10:55] <Ju> Hi
[10:59] <lucasvo> hi Ju
[11:03] <Ju> is edubuntu translated via Rosetta ? I can find only Edubuntu Cookbook
[11:07] <lucasvo> Ju: what is rosetta?
[11:08] <Ju> the webapp for ubuntu translations : https://launchpad.net/
[11:08] <lucasvo> Ju: I thought rosetta is handwriting recognition
[11:10] <ogra_> Ju, which apps in particular do you want to translate ? edubuntu and its apps are contained in ubuntu ...
[11:10] <ogra_> ... so in rosetta as well
[11:11] <Ju> ogra_:  the debian installer
[11:12] <ogra_> thats the ubuntu installer apart from one udeb thats ltsp related
[11:13] <ogra_> Ju, i think Kamion has the installer po files in a bazaar archive somewhere, ask him in #ubuntu-devel
[11:13] <Ju> oh ok
[11:13] <Ju> i'will thanks
[11:13] <ogra_> :)
[11:14] <Ju> claude just forwarded me your discussion about edubuntu-fr , I'm very sorry this project start like that...
[11:15] <ogra_> i'm happy it exists, but it would have been nice to coordinate with us :)
[11:16] <Ju> sure... sorry about that, ill try to contact manu and ask him to show up here ;-)
[11:16] <ogra_> the last release we had no liveCD because i did all the work alone, a helping hand would have been nice ...
[11:16] <ogra_> now the liveCd for dapper is at the door, so testing and helping would be appreciate ;)
[11:16] <ogra_> +d
[11:17] <lucasvo> ogra_: work was worth :D
[11:17] <ogra_> (claude pointed me to the -fr live project)
[11:18] <ogra_> lucasvo, sure, but it could have been far better if we joined forces ;)
[11:18] <ogra_> but now we have a start ;)
[11:19] <Ju> yep
[11:19] <ogra_> :)


[07:52] <AlanBell> morning all
[07:52] <AlanBell> I have a Mum&Dadbuntu to build today
[07:53] <MartijnVdS> \o/
[07:53] <MartijnVdS> what kind of hardware?
[07:54] <richardperkins> Morning all
[07:54] <AlanBell> http://www.ebuyer.com/337174-zoostorm-pentium-sandybridge-no-os-desktop-pc-7873-1051 this one I think
[07:55] <richardperkins> I know its early but wanted to seek some advice before the children surface
[07:56] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: Nice. I just built a new Granbuntu machine with an Asus barebone + Sempron 145
[07:56] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: http://ie.asus.com/Barebone_PC/V_Series_2530L/V6M4A3000E/ that barebone
[07:57] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: + 4G RAM, + Sempron 145, + some SATA disk I had lying around, + some DVD player I had lying around
[07:57] <MartijnVdS> Total price: €140
[08:04] <AlanBell> nice
[08:04] <AlanBell> the base unit is at the post office, I have to go pick it up in a bit
[08:04] <AlanBell> so what applications should I put on it?
[08:05] <AlanBell> I am putting precise on it
[08:10] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: aisleriot
[08:11] <MartijnVdS> Yours is Sandy Bridge? That should have enough power for Google Earth. You might want skype (or stick with Google talk's video bits, or G+ hangouts?)
[08:12] <AlanBell> dad has an iPad as well
[08:12] <AlanBell> probably put some games and stuff on it
[08:13] <AlanBell> google earth doesn't need much power, runs fine on my sons single core 1.4ghz laptop with intel graphics
[08:14] <AlanBell> there is an ebook application people rave about
[08:14] <AlanBell> caliber or something
[08:14] <MartijnVdS> calibre
[08:14] <MartijnVdS> It works great but the UI is horrible
[08:18] <AlanBell> looks OK to me
[08:22] <OmNomDePlume> What's the best thing to eat the morning after you've been so drunk you've puked your guts out?
[08:25] <MartijnVdS> OmNomDePlume: Bread with chocolate sprinkles + large glass of milk
[08:28] <christel_> morn
[08:28] <MartijnVdS> \o
[08:34] <ging> bacon
[08:34] <ging> and coke zero
[08:35] <MartijnVdS> Anything with lots of water, really.
[08:35] <popey> morning
[08:39] <MartijnVdS> \o popeyman
[08:52] <MooDoo> morning all
[08:53] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: hello
[09:00] <OmNomDeBonBon> Thank you MartijnVdS, I will try that.
[09:13] <popey> how on earth do you do a slider in glade?
[09:41] <dipizzle> hello
[09:42] <dipizzle> how nice to finally be on an irc channel
[09:42] <AlanBell> hello dipizzle
[09:43] <popey> AlanBell: you've played with glade haven't you?
[09:43] <popey> know how to do a slider like the one in the appearance dialog where you make the launcher bigger/smaller?
[09:45] <AlanBell> I think that is a scale widget
[09:45] <popey> ahh, it may be called "Scale"
[09:45] <popey> thanks
[09:46] <popey> the 'orientation' thing was off screen
[09:46] <AlanBell> yeah, they are vertical by default
[09:51] <AlanBell> popey: how is trublr these days?
[09:52] <popey> :D
[09:52] <popey> working on it
[09:53] <AlanBell> should I install it on this PC I am going to give to Mum & Dad?
[09:53] <popey> no
[09:59] <AlanBell> this is the first install I have done for ages without orca running!
[10:19] <cotterall> morning
[10:21] <apacheuk> morning
[10:38] <czajkowski> aloha
[10:38] <MooDoo> morning
[10:47] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[11:03] <AlanBell> right, that is most of the cool stuff installed, 22GB used :)
[11:20] <AlanBell> all it needs now is the "show my desktop to Alan" button
[11:28] <marxjohnson> If I've got one byobu session nested inside another, how can I detach the nested one? If I hit F6 or C-a d it just detaches the outside one, and when i reconnect the nested one is still there
[11:29] <AlanBell> C-a C-a d
[11:30] <shauno> I thought it was just C-a a d.  Stacking will melt your brain eventually tho ;)
[11:31] <marxjohnson> yay well one of those too just worked
[11:31] <AlanBell> shauno: you are probably right
[11:31] <marxjohnson> thanks!
[11:31] <shauno> the C-a a gets passed to the client (the inner screen in this case) as C-a
[11:31] <czajkowski> whoo RAT tickets arrived
[11:54]  * AlanBell haz RAT tickets \o/
[12:06] <daubers> Morning
[12:06] <daubers> er... afternoon even
[12:36]  * christel_ yawns
[12:36] <christel_> oh i should buy rat tickets, which date did we say? july 14th?
[12:37]  * christel_ pokes czajkowski and AlanBell
[12:38] <bittin> RAT as in RatholeRadio?
[12:40] <christel_> rat as in real ale train :)
[12:40] <bittin> ah
[12:44] <AlanBell> yes, 14th July
[12:45] <AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-uk
[12:45] <AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1603/detail/ even
[12:46] <popey> \o/ beer
[12:49] <christel_> mmmbeer
[13:04] <Pendulum> AlanBell: are you sure you're allowed to do installs without Orca running? ;-)
[13:14] <christel_> i have purchased rat tickets
[13:14] <AlanBell> \o/
[13:17] <christel_> \o/ indeed :D
[14:39] <czajkowski> christel_: yay :D
[14:53]  * popey moos from the LUG
[14:54] <czajkowski> popey: be careful http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs10/i/2006/135/9/6/_quot_Death_is_coming_for_YOU_quot__by_Nikittele.jpg
[14:58] <dwatkins> czajkowski: heh, that reminds me of the Warcraft II death knight which would say this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBViA9draOs
[14:58] <czajkowski> dwatkins: hah
[15:06] <czajkowski> weird all my downloading of .avi file get launched straight away
[15:07] <czajkowski> which is confusing if I'm doing about 3 in a god and all download at the same time
[15:33] <kvarley> In gedit can I use wildcards in the find and replace box?
[15:33] <kvarley> Doing * doesn't seem to work
[15:36] <cotterall> kvarley: not by default but I think there are plugins
[15:40] <cotterall> kvarley: I can't find a *-style wildcard one but there's a regex one here: http://halfhourhacks.blogspot.com/2008/03/gedit-regular-expression-plugin.html
[15:40] <cotterall> kvarley: this one looks good too: http://code.google.com/p/advanced-find
[15:40] <kvarley> Thanks cotterall
[16:00] <andylockran> can anyone access this over ipv6? http://ipv6.zrmt.com/gw7mwofidd.txt
[16:00] <andylockran> doing the hurricane electric certification, but it's failing and I can't understand why :d
[16:02] <MartijnVdS> andylockran: is that host v6 only?
[16:02] <andylockran> should be
[16:02] <MartijnVdS> works fine here
[16:02] <MartijnVdS> "Test File" it says
[16:03] <andylockran> yeah, that;s right
[16:03] <andylockran> hmm
[16:04] <MartijnVdS> andylockran: maybe the other end has a negative response cached?
[16:04] <MartijnVdS> (DNS response)
[16:04] <MartijnVdS> is the hostname quite new?
[16:08] <shauno> wget -6 url returns a 403 forbidden.  I dare say that might want to be a 2xx for a pass
[16:09] <shauno> (oddly, it works fine in my browser.  but under the safe assumption their end is automated, they may be hitting the same behaviour)
[16:16] <swattor> afternoon all
[16:18] <DJones> Afternoon swattor
[16:19] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Andy Loughran] Ubuntu  The Philosophy - http://zrmt.com/2012/03/10/ubuntu-the-philosophy/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=ubuntu-the-philosophy
[16:19] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Andy Loughran] ZRMT  to Andy Loughran (www.andyloughran.co.uk) - http://zrmt.com/2012/03/10/zrmt-to-andy-loughran-www-andyloughran-co-uk/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=zrmt-to-andy-loughran-www-andyloughran-co-uk
[16:24] <swattor> would anyone be interested in happy hour in brighton?
[16:24] <swattor> was thinking about emailing the list to email them
[16:24] <AlanBell> probably :)
[16:25] <AlanBell> so we have reading in a couple of weeks, then wolverhampton in April (waiting for a pub on that one I think)
[16:25] <AlanBell> there is interest in Southampton too
[16:29] <swattor> what's the best thing to do to try and move it along a bit?
[16:35] <AlanBell> pick a pub and a date :)
[16:35] <AlanBell> maybe one in May?
[16:36] <andylockran> ansfro]sefgj[eg
[16:52] <s-fox> o/
[16:53] <MooDoo> hello s-fox :)
[16:54] <s-fox> Hello MooDoo :)
[16:54]  * s-fox has the lucky blue socks on today :D
[16:54] <s-fox> and NO green. Haha
[16:56] <s-fox> How are you MooDoo?
[16:57] <MooDoo> s-fox: at work but ok thank you :)
[16:57] <s-fox> Working on a weekend... :(
[16:58] <MooDoo> s-fox: yeah i have to do it....shifts....in tomorrow too.
[17:00] <s-fox> booo
[17:02] <MooDoo> just what i was thinking
[17:08] <s-fox> We're winning at the rugby :D
[17:08]  * s-fox celebrates
[17:09] <MooDoo> s-fox: it's a start, only just begun though
[17:10] <s-fox> To be honest, alba need to score a try or 2 to have a good chance of winning
[17:11] <s-fox> 3 points here and there isn't going to win the match
[17:11] <MooDoo> nopw
[17:12] <s-fox> 6-0 !!!!!!!!!!!
[17:12] <s-fox> :D
[17:12]  * s-fox thinks lucky socks are working
[17:27] <czajkowski> s-fox: *grin*
[17:28] <s-fox> czajkowski,  *glares*
[17:29] <czajkowski> *SMILES*
[17:29] <s-fox> *whatever*
[17:30] <MooDoo> s-fox: loosing now?
[17:30] <MooDoo> oh yeah lol
[17:33] <czajkowski> MooDoo: oi oi :)
[17:46] <czajkowski> whoo 3 tries :D
[17:46] <s-fox> brb
[17:49] <s-fox> Back, booted into android
[18:11] <czajkowski> whoo TRY!
[18:12] <czajkowski> booo
[18:12] <dwatkins> ack!
[18:14] <s-fox> yay
[18:38] <s-fox> Maybe someone will score this half czajkowski :-)
[18:46] <czajkowski> ask and you shall receive :)
[18:54] <czajkowski> whooo another try for Ireland - try #4 for ireland :D
[18:58] <s-fox> Czajkowski congrats on the win
[18:59] <czajkowski> cheers :)
[18:59] <s-fox> Think 1st half was better imo
[21:05] <Easton> can you put a background image when in console
[21:07] <dwatkins> Easton: not easily, but you can put a background on the terminal application
[21:07] <Easton> is that in side of gnome and kde
[21:08] <dwatkins> yeah, if you use them, or XFCE etc.
[21:09] <Easton> Thank you for the help I'll have to stick with black background then.
[21:09] <dwatkins> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=41709 Easton
[21:11] <dwatkins> looks like the site is broken, unfortunately
[21:11] <dwatkins> still, it's possible, just not easy to find the installation files
[23:58] <bigcalm> Evenin' all
[23:59] <popey> pip pip
[23:59] <bigcalm> Goodness, not expecting life
[23:59] <popey> ☺
[23:59]  * popey is watching films whilst upgrading machines
[23:59] <bigcalm> You appear to be inflicting 12.04 upon many family members
[23:59] <popey> yup ☺


[00:41] <Flannel> today was a growth day for ##hamradio
[00:41] <Flannel> er
[09:25] <ubot5`> AlanBell called the ops in #lubuntu (just a test)
[09:28] <Myrtti> AlanBell: it's lacking something :-|
[09:29] <AlanBell> it is
[09:32] <Unit193> Just needs swapping a few names
[09:33] <AlanBell> yeah, which I think needs doing in ubottu then syncing to ubot5`
[09:33] <Unit193> Yep, pango did it last time
[09:34] <AlanBell> it is the ops-#lubuntu factoid
[09:34] <Unit193> Yep
[09:34] <Unit193> !-ops-#lubuntu
[10:04] <bkerensa> hmm
[18:40] <Alina> Hi all!!!
[18:40] <Alina> #ubuntu-ru Moderators kicking users without reason. just like it. They talking like schoolers. I think they childres
[18:42] <Alina> PLEASE HELP!!!
[18:43] <k1l> do we have some russian speaking guys awake?
[18:43] <Alina> ?
[18:44] <Alina> I can wait
[18:45] <Alina> Help PLEASE!!!
[18:45] <pangolin> Alina: Please be patient
[18:46] <Alina> no problem
[18:46] <pangolin> and don't type in all caps, it is considered to be rude.
[18:46] <Alina> np
[18:47] <Alina> but i not consideret it to be rude
[18:47] <Alina> just its scream
[18:47] <pangolin> but the internet does
[18:47] <pangolin> no need for screaming when talking works just as well
[18:54] <Alina> np
[19:04] <Alina> and.....
[19:08] <pangolin> and what?
[19:08] <pangolin> i don't understand what the problem is, you are in the channel and are +v
[19:09] <Alina> how they affect?
[19:10] <pangolin> affect what? you need to be more clear
[19:11] <Alina> Freenode have a general / global rule?
[19:12] <pangolin> yes they do
[19:12] <pangolin> Alina: What exactly is the problem you are having in #ubuntu-ru ?
[19:13] <Alina> The kick users withou reason. just like it. Schoolers children moders
[19:13] <Alina> They
[19:13] <pangolin> The ops can kick who they want for whatever reason or lack of reason they chose
[19:14] <Alina> They kick users without reason. Just like it. They just Schoolers children moders.
[19:14] <Alina> ops?
[19:14] <pangolin> ops = mods
[19:14] <Alina> ok do it please
[19:14] <pangolin> do what?
[19:15] <Alina> they kick WITHOUT reason
[19:15] <Alina> its bad
[19:15] <pangolin> Alina: you are not making any sense
[19:15] <Alina> thet children
[19:15] <Alina> oh ok
[19:16] <Alina> all bad on freenode because freenode not have global rules
[19:16] <k1l> can you provide an eyample where you say its inadequat behavior of the ops?
[19:17] <Alina> k1l sorry what?
[19:17] <Alina> oh
[19:18] <Alina> #ubuntu-ru
[19:18] <k1l> can you paste some log for an example of a bad op into the pastebinit.com? or what do you want the IRCC to do?
[19:19] <Alina> I asked about the license.  I compared it with anyone, with bad man. And Kicked.
[19:19] <Alina> log no
[19:19] <Alina> because closed it
[19:20] <Alina> they me compared
[19:22] <Alina> pastebinit is spam :( ?
[19:22] <Alina> ftrsr.com
[19:22] <Alina> relink
[19:24] <Alina> я получила уже все ответы на канале #ubuntu
[19:24] <Alina> #ubuntu-ru
[19:25] <Alina> I now do not let go
[19:25] <Alina> me kicked nice 2
[19:25] <Alina> now
[19:26] <Alina> I kicked two more times
[19:26] <k1l> Alina: so as far as i see you got kicked because your questions wasnt ubuntu related in a ubuntu support channel
[19:27] <Alina> k1l, i ask about license and was kicked
[19:27] <Alina> in next time me kicked without reason
[19:28] <Alina> and again for no reason help please (((
[19:29] <k1l> Alina: well, you started again with the topic. if you want to talk about generel linux licence try offtopic channel or #linux-ru
[19:30] <Alina> They're just kids, but they act on the nerves.
[19:31] <k1l> i dont understand enough russian to understand what is wrong there. but if it is no topic for a ubuntu support channel und you keep coming again and again with a bad topic it is not their fault.
[19:31] <Alina> Madden. How to clean on #ubuntu-ru?
[19:31] <Alina> http://translate.google.com
[19:33] <Alina> ok thanks all!
[19:34] <Alina> I'm going to look for other chats where there is a global rules and global moderators.
[19:34] <Alina> bb all!
[21:28] <dangertux> Hello, who do I need to ask about getting a cloak (ubuntu member type)?
[21:28] <pangolin> !membership
[21:29] <pangolin> dangertux: are you an Ubuntu member?
[21:29] <dangertux> Yes
[21:29] <pangolin> can you link to you launchpad profile please
[21:29] <dangertux> https://launchpad.net/~dangertux
[21:29] <pangolin> Pici AlanBell topyli funkyHat dangertux would like a member cloak
[21:30] <pangolin> dangertux: congrats on membership
[21:30] <dangertux> Thanks :-)
[21:30] <Unit193> dangertux: Congrats ;)
[21:30] <EvilResistance> congrats :)
[21:30] <dangertux> Thanks again * 2 ;-)
[21:30] <pangolin> just sit patiently and one of the GC's will get you sorted soonish
[21:30] <EvilResistance> i thought i'd say congrats, even though i just hopped in here to get the /topic xD
[21:30] <dangertux> no problem
[21:30] <dangertux> thanks for your help pangolin
[21:30] <pangolin> my pleasure
[21:31] <EvilResistance> hey pangolin, whens the next IRC Council meeting
[21:31] <Unit193> EvilResistance: You shouldbe able to get it with /topic #ubuntu-irc
[21:31] <EvilResistance> they havent updated their page :P
[21:31] <pangolin> EvilResistance: TBD
[21:31] <EvilResistance> Unit193:  not from a broken irssi :/
[21:31] <EvilResistance> pangolin:  any idea when the date will be determined?
[21:31] <pangolin> soon
[21:31] <pangolin> :)
[21:31] <EvilResistance> evil categorical definitions of timeframes
[21:31] <pangolin> but there should be plenty of notice
[21:33] <AlanBell> yeah, soon
[21:34] <pangolin> AlanBell: i assume you saw the ping about dangertux
[21:34] <AlanBell> staff can we have an ubuntu/member/dangertux cloak please
[21:35] <AlanBell> pangolin: yeah, I was just checking stuff
[21:35] <pangolin> cool, thank you :)
[21:47] <AlanBell> dangertux: I added you to the launchpad group, if you hang round here for a bit you will get the cloak
[21:47] <dangertux> AlanBell: Thank you very much :-)
[23:38] <AlanBell> staff o/ can we have an ubuntu/member/dangertux cloak for dangertux please
[23:42] <niko> sure
[23:42] <niko> dangertux: congrats
[23:43] <dangertux> niko thanks :-)
[23:46] <AlanBell> thanks niko


[07:23] <anpok_> hi
[07:24] <anpok_> I am playing with xmir in silo-004.. and tried various options
[07:25] <anpok_> when using -egl or -egl_sync the buffer contents seem to be corrupted. -sw and no option work fine when -damage is used. Without -damage a mix of old and new buffer is sometime visible..
[07:53] <duflu> anpok_: Did it ever work better than that? The new xmir is still relatively "new"
[07:58] <duflu> Weird. Every IRC message and email I've sent today has been met with silence.
[07:58] <duflu> Is there anybody out there?
[07:59] <sturmflut2> Well, it's only 10 AM here in europe, on a monday. People are probably either asleep or in meetings.
[07:59] <ogra_> or both ;)
[07:59] <sturmflut2> ogra_: Didn't want it to phrase like that, but yes.
[08:00] <duflu> Actually I was sending messages mostly to people in this timezone (West Aust / Hong Kong / Tokyo)
[08:02] <anpok_> duflu: :)
[08:03] <anpok_> not sure .. at least there is one configuration inside the set that works fine
[08:04] <duflu> anpok_: I would not worry about it. In my testing XMir 2.0 has been only mildly mature. I would not expect it to have perfect visual correctness and damage handling yet
[08:59] <duflu> alf_, anpok_: If I need to propose a fix to egl-platform-mir.patch, where is the best place?
[08:59] <alf_> duflu: mesa package
[09:00] <alf_> duflu: I have found that all other repositories are out of sync with the package
[09:00] <anpok_> hm tjaalton recently had to make changes to the patch
[09:00] <duflu> It's been a while. I need to remember how to :)
[10:11] <alf_> greyback: Which component in unity8(?) knows when the screen is (un)locked? I need it to emit a dbus event on (un)locking.
[10:11] <alf_> greyback: (Hi!)
[10:11] <greyback> alf_: Hey!
[10:11]  * ogra_ thought there is already one ... mtp should use it
[10:12] <greyback> alf_: it's a qml component: either Greeter/Greeter.qml or Components/Lockscreen.qml
[10:12] <greyback> what is it you want to do?
[10:16] <alf_> greyback: I want USC to somehow know if the screen is locked or not, so we can deal with inactitivity timeouts correctly. Basically, when the phone is locked touches shouldn't extend the inactivity timeout.
[10:16] <greyback> understood
[10:16] <greyback> Greeter is probably the place to be
[10:17] <greyback> qml doesn't have built-in support for dbus. We usually write a small C++ class with a method which fires the dbus signal. Then call that method from qml.
[10:18] <alf_> ogra_: if there is an existing dbus signal I can watch for, even better... but I haven't been able to find one
[10:18] <alf_> greyback: ack
[10:19] <greyback> alf_: something like DashCommunicator would be the simplest example I can point you to
[10:19] <ogra_> alf_, bzr branch lp:mtp ... if there is a dbus signal server.cpp should use it
[10:19] <greyback> that's in lp:unity8:/plugins/Unity/DashCommunicator
[10:19] <ogra_> (i dont think mtp implements its own thing here)
[10:19] <alf_> ogra_: thanks, I will take a look
[10:25] <alf_> greyback: ogra_: So, I see a 'com.canonical.Unity.Greeter' interface used by MTP, but I don't see unity8/greeter implementing this interface
[10:26] <ogra_> fun
[10:26] <ogra_> well, it works with mtp ... somehow ..
[12:24] <Chipaca> alf_: o/
[12:24] <Chipaca> alf_: does mir always load xkb?
[12:27] <alf_> Chipaca: Hi. It uses xkb libraries on the client side
[12:27] <Chipaca> alf_: yes. always?
[12:28] <alf_> Chipaca: yes (AFAIK)
[12:28] <Chipaca> ok
[13:20] <attente> hi, shouldn't mir be re-focusing a parent surface when one of its focused child surfaces is released?
[13:32] <renatu> hey guys I am using ubuntu 15.04 (r58) on arale, and I noticed that the screen never turns off while idle
[13:33] <renatu> how I can debug it?
[13:33] <anpok> this is known issue of unity-system-compositor
[13:33] <tsdgeos> me?
[13:33] <anpok> hm alf_ made a fix
[13:33] <tsdgeos> er
[13:33] <tsdgeos> ignore me
[13:34] <tsdgeos> i added an highlight on unity and get confused thinking people are pinging me
[13:34]  * tsdgeos hides in his cave
[13:34] <anpok> :)
[13:35] <renatu> anpok, nice thanks, will this fix land on OTA5?
[13:35] <anpok> renatu: iirc applications seem to try to remove display on requests that they never issued.. and that caused usc to restart the display off timeout
[13:35] <anpok> iirc ota5 is already closed?
[13:36] <renatu> seb128, ^^^
[13:37] <seb128> anpok, renatu, check on #ubuntu-ci-eng, there are still discussing very selected landing, but it's likely going to be for ota-6 now
[13:43] <seb128> anpok, is there any way to tell what application does that?
[14:28] <kgunn> camako: anpok what's the plan on mir0.14 wrt wily vs vivid+ being frozen ? e.g. are you gonna land in wily regardless? or dual land only ?
[14:29] <kgunn> i got no opinions, just asking
[14:54] <camako> kgunn, land on both. vivid+ will soon thaw.
[14:54] <kgunn> ack
[14:55] <anpok> kgunn: i was told I cannot dual land because of the attached source packages
[14:55] <anpok> so I picked wily since vivid+overlay was freezing already
[14:57] <kgunn> camako: ^
[14:57] <kgunn> anpok: ok, up to you and camako how you wanna do it...
[14:57] <kgunn> anpok: but you might wanna add
[14:57] <kgunn> https://code.launchpad.net/~afrantzis/unity-system-compositor/fix-1461476-display-off/+merge/264127
[14:57] <kgunn> to that silo
[14:58] <kgunn> camako: racarr also, just checking on the raw event stuff, i thot we needed some device introspect as a precondition?
[14:58] <kgunn> just seeing the introspect card is on backlog
[14:59] <kgunn> was there maybe a smaller task gonna be spun out of that ?
[14:59] <camako> anpok, kgunn, ack about it not being a dual landing, but we will land on both. vivid+ is thawing by EoD today.
[14:59] <camako> land on both == two silos
[15:02] <kgunn> :) camako i'm kind of wanting to bet you on the thaw
[15:02] <kgunn> but you might win...
[15:02] <kgunn> you never know
[15:03] <camako> kgunn, yeah I know it may not but the point is it's close (one or two days don't make much of a difference at this point)
[15:04] <camako> kgunn, I made a comment on the introspection card, but haven't been able to sync with racarr. Hopefully today
[15:05] <kgunn> camako: thanks... it'll be my favorite topic for a while :)
[16:54] <greyback_> racarr: What is meant by "device introspection" exactly?
[16:54] <racarr> greyback_: Yeah input device introspection
[16:55] <racarr> enumerate devices, query their properties, etc...
[16:56] <greyback_> racarr: ok, that makes sense. Just the name was vague, and introspection I consider to inspect inside something, not just read fundamental properties of it
[16:56] <racarr> yeah I see that
[16:57] <racarr> I think of it as introspection wrt to the fields
[16:57] <racarr> in the event
[16:57] <racarr> an in particular the raw event which will need more interpretation
[16:57] <racarr> but even as it stands like
[16:57] <racarr> some of our axes e.g. everything except
[16:57] <racarr> x/y can't be used because
[16:57] <racarr> they are device specific min max
[16:58] <racarr> so its like, hey what is this axes, what is this button
[16:58] <racarr> *shrug*
[16:59] <greyback_> racarr: devils advocate - who needs that?
[16:59] <anpok> shells
[16:59] <kgunn> racarr: so should it be better names as event-introspection ?
[16:59] <kgunn> if it's even named yet :)
[17:00] <greyback_> for unity8 drawing pointer, would not relative mouse move events be enough?
[17:00] <greyback_> i.e. mouse moved 1 unit to the left
[17:01] <greyback_> anpok: I'll need more than "shells" ;) Can you give me examples
[17:01] <racarr> greyback_: Yes thats what the raw events are
[17:01] <greyback_> shells can get device info via other libraries like udev
[17:01] <racarr> and the intersection with
[17:01] <greyback_> racarr: cool
[17:01] <racarr> introspection
[17:01] <racarr> is you get a bunch of
[17:02] <racarr> {Id: 7: axis 9: value 14}
[17:02] <anpok> greyback_: true..
[17:02] <racarr> which ones come from a mouse :)
[17:02] <racarr> um so yeah shells
[17:02] <racarr> can't strictly speaking use udev without
[17:02] <racarr> breaking our encapsulation of input
[17:02] <anpok> greyback_: I wanted to write that.. and then realized.. that with libudev you do not need to have permission to query the device
[17:02] <racarr> so then
[17:02] <racarr> input platforms don't work
[17:02] <racarr> e.g. someone writes a platform for a custom device or
[17:02] <racarr> a platform for networked input ala synergy
[17:03] <racarr> you can't assume that you can just query the device via other apis
[17:03] <racarr> and then there are also client consumers
[17:04] <greyback_> sure, but similarly we can't assume mir runs on linux, but we have
[17:04] <racarr> I think for example drawing apps
[17:04] <greyback_> I just don't want to see reinvention of the wheel
[17:05] <racarr> wan't to find a device thats a tablet and map it to a window...and maybe list the tools
[17:06] <greyback_> ok, fair example
[17:06] <racarr> it's
[17:06] <racarr> an unfortunately complex solution to relative pointer events
[17:06] <racarr> but I dont think much is required for that
[17:06] <racarr> if I can't find a good pat
[17:07] <racarr> moistly the difficulty is in carving through the InputReader
[17:07] <racarr> soon though...there's kind of
[17:07] <racarr> a fallback strategy of just throwing some relative info in the pointer event
[17:09] <racarr> MORE CAFE
[17:17] <racarr> mmm
[17:35] <racarr> AlbertA: In https://code.launchpad.net/~albaguirre/mir/tweak-failing-tests-ci-tsan/+merge/264463
[17:35] <racarr> + ASSERT_THAT(client_frames, Gt(compose_frames * 0.78f));
[17:36] <racarr> what does this mea
[17:36] <racarr> n
[17:36] <racarr> well or rather why 0.78 now instead of 0.8
[18:26] <kdub> racarr, iirc from the summary in the standup, changing that value didn't quite work either, and since its a timing-based test, might just be disabled
[18:27] <kdub> and... in the new buffer scheduling stuff, should be translated to a not-timing-based test
[18:33] <racarr> kdub: Ah. Sounds good to me :)
[18:33] <racarr> thanks
[18:51] <kdub> 'tis the time in the afternoon to switch to reviewing
[19:01] <attente> hi, i don't seem to be receiving a focus-in event for a surface when one of its focused child surfaces is released. is this unexpected or by-design?
[19:47] <racarr> just spent a while working on mir on x review....made progress now breaking for lunch...
[20:49] <greyback__> attente: bug. That's window management which requires much work still
[20:50] <attente> greyback__: ok, thanks
[20:51] <attente> greyback__: is there already a bug number for it? should i file one?
[20:51] <greyback__> attente: not that I know of. Please file
[21:24] <attente> greyback__: is there any other information i can get out of a MirSurfaceEvent other than the attribute and the value (through the client api)? ideally like a surface handle or identifier?
[21:25] <greyback__> attente: I'll let a Mir expert answer that. racarr?
[21:28] <attente> greyback__, racarr: actually, i spoke too soon, i guess i don't need it because i'm getting that info directly from the event handler callback for the surface
[21:37] <conyoo> gsettings get com.canonical.qtmir lifecycle-exempt-appids
[21:37] <conyoo> ['com.ubuntu.music']
[21:37]  * ahayzen ducks
[21:37] <conyoo> does this mean music app is not suspended?
[21:37] <ahayzen> while audio is playing yes.. for now ;-)
[21:37] <conyoo> nice :D
[21:37] <conyoo> so i can add terminal app?
[21:38] <ahayzen> hopefully it'll go soon
[21:38] <ahayzen> i don't know if settings that would allow other apps to not be suspended, try it!
[21:39] <conyoo> i have no idea how :>
[21:40] <conyoo> gsettings set com.canonical.qtmir lifecycle-exempt-appids what?
[21:51] <greyback__> conyoo: yes
[21:51] <greyback__> what -> "['com.ubuntu.music','com.ubuntu.terminal']"
[21:51] <greyback__> qith quotes
[21:51] <greyback__> with
[21:52] <conyoo> uuu thanks, greyback__  :D
[21:53] <conyoo> gsettings get com.canonical.qtmir lifecycle-exempt-appids
[21:53] <conyoo> ['com.ubuntu.music', 'com.ubuntu.terminal']
[21:53] <ahayzen> :-) greyback__ you'll be happy to hear that we are finally working on bg-playlists support with the media-hub guys at the moment, its slow progress but we'll get there soon hopefully :-)
[21:53] <conyoo> so is the key some vector, enum/
[21:53] <greyback__> ahayzen: wooo!
[21:54] <greyback__> conyoo: array of strings
[21:54] <conyoo> right
[21:55] <conyoo> yay! now i can use unity8 on the desktop :D
[21:56] <conyoo> Xmir sort of works :D i'm good


[08:59] <sassyn> hi
[08:59] <sassyn> good morning.
[08:59] <sassyn> Is there any way to make sure cloud-init init command will recreate the netplan file
[09:00] <sassyn> in a custom way? not just have the first eth0 config with DHCP?
[09:00] <sassyn> note that I'm using the None DataStore
[09:18] <meena> sassyn: what is the None DataStore? you mean NoCloud, or literally, you have no datastore?
[09:19] <sassyn> meena: thank you for getting back to me
[09:19] <sassyn> I mean this: https://cloudinit.readthedocs.io/en/latest/topics/datasources/fallback.html
[09:23] <meena> sassyn: i don't understand how you're supposed to provide a network config with that datasource…
[09:23] <sassyn> the thing is I'm importing a image to vmware ... where the image is in the state of cloud-init init ... so once I boot the image , the cloud init is  running.
[09:24] <sassyn> What I want is to provide cloud init a way to create the netplan with math interface etc..
[09:25] <sassyn> at the moment i have the  50-cloud-init.yaml being created
[09:25] <sassyn> with eth0 setup to dhcp
[09:25] <sassyn> and with the match mac address
[09:26] <sassyn> but my goal is to have it with 3 more interface setup in some default way
[09:30] <sassyn> is there anyway to porivde network init data?
[09:31] <sassyn> with a fake datastore ... not like NoCloud
[09:31] <sassyn> just files on the local file system? let's say in /opt/tmp or something?
[09:31] <meena> NoCloud isn't a fake datasource
[09:32] <meena> you provide a couple of files with stuff you wanna see by bundling it up as ISO and putting it into the machine; cloud-init identifies the source via label (cidata) and FS (iso9660), and mounts it and uses it
[09:37] <sassyn> https://gist.github.com/imduffy15/2d6f3cd46efa2ff68286
[09:38] <sassyn> look here: this developer use None as datastore
[09:38] <sassyn> and still have metadata:
[09:39] <sassyn> sorry - I'm really a new baby with cloud init
[09:39] <sassyn> so if I ask stupid question. I understand the NoCloud method. But I'm tying to avoid it.
[09:51] <meena> sassyn: i've never seen userdata_raw:
[11:04] <stephan48> can someone give me a hint on how the handling of the <IP_ADDRESS> or similar mechanisms work for f.e. Hetzner? how do hosters attach the info about which machine asks for the info so they can answer with only that machines details? do they have a local proxy checking source interface/mac address and attaching it to the request?
[11:09] <meena> stephan48: that may well be possible. i don't think we're making any requests with our instance-id; you can curl that IP and get the same info cloud-init gets
[11:10] <stephan48> yes
[11:11] <stephan48> because often we don't know the ID until that request happens(if it is not injected otherwise)
[11:11] <stephan48> what interests me is how the hoster side of things is solved, i think i understand the cloud-init side fair enough for now
[14:36] <meena> stephan48: MAC address based discrimination is probably the most sensible, but i honestly wouldn't know how to route that
[14:47] <stephan48> yea
[14:47] <stephan48> hence the guess with a local proxy server
[14:52] <stephan48> maybe even something like VRF to provide a isolated environment between VMs. grabbing the mac address and attaching it to a HTTP request via a header or param is fairly easy
[14:52] <stephan48> you would need something local anyway with APIPA
[16:32] <meena> stephan48: we can always look at OpenStack or CloudStack do it
[16:32] <stephan48> true!
[16:32] <stephan48> althrough these are quite complesh projects
[16:36] <meena> well, yeah, i didn't wanna say OpenNebula ; cuz that's too simple?
[16:37] <stephan48> will try to dig a bit this evening
[16:38] <stephan48> i guess a lot of these work via metadata partitions
[16:38] <stephan48> and then announcing either the full files or a url with params
[19:18] <blackboxsw> falcojr: I just put up https://github.com/cloud-init/ubuntu-sru/pull/181 for softlayer tests. if there is time later this week I may put up a PR to add softlayer to pycloudlib (I have vestiges of it that I wrote while waiting for these tests to run).
[19:19] <blackboxsw> I see you have a number of PRs up for SRU verification on ubuntu-sru falcojr, lucasmoura and I should be able to get through review on those today
[19:19] <falcojr> sweet, I'll review it soon. Thanks!
[19:19] <falcojr> and yeah, Lucas is reviewing them
[19:19] <blackboxsw> awesome thanks lucasmoura
[19:32] <meena> can anyone help me answer a few cloud-init mysteries?
[19:32] <meena> cloud-id is saying ec2
[19:33] <meena> ds-identify is saying: datasource_list: [ Hetzner, None ]
[19:37] <meena> so, where does cloud-id get that idea from?
[19:42] <rharper> meena: cloud_id reads from instance-data.json;  it grabs 'cloud_name', 'region" and 'platform' from the json file, ;   see cloudinit/cmd/cloud_id.py and cloudinit/sources/__init__.py:canonical_cloud_id()
[19:45] <meena> aah, here we go: we're back to none; because loads of stuff in net/__init__.py is failing…
[19:45] <rharper> and the name comes from cloudinit/sources/__init__.py:Datasource.cloud_name property  which reads  looks looks for 'cloud-name' in the metadata   if present, it falls back to self.dsname  if they're not present ...
[19:53] <meena> rharper: how can i make cloud-init re-read the data?
[19:54] <blackboxsw> option 1: the big hammer: cloud-init clean --reboot --logs
[19:55] <blackboxsw> option 2: rm /var/lib/cloud/instance/obj.pkl I believe
[19:55] <meena> blackboxsw: option 1 doesn't work; and i'm very slowly working on fixing that…
[19:55] <rharper> reread metadata ?
[19:55] <rharper> or regenerate instance-data.json ?
[19:55] <blackboxsw> ohh I was interpreting re-detect the datasource
[19:58] <rharper> meena: I think re-reading metadata  and then dumping instance-data.json ;   I'd likely rm /var/lib/cloud/instance/obj.pkl;  and then just re-run:   cloud-init init --local    (or cloud-init init if it's a network datasource vs. local datasource)
[19:58] <meena> blackboxsw: i'm forcing the datasource via  /usr/local/etc/cloud/cloud.cfg.d/cloud.cfg
[19:58] <meena> datasource_list: [ Hetzner, None ]
[19:59] <meena> because a lot of things assume linux, i have to do that, otherwise, i won't even get to the point where hetzner is attempted
[19:59] <meena> now, ec2 as fallback (thanks to standard datasource_list) works *somewhat* but not completely
[20:00] <meena> and Hetzner does some funky stuff in before trying to fetch the metadata
[20:00] <meena> 2020-12-14 20:00:31,325 - util.py[WARNING]: Getting data from <class 'cloudinit.sources.DataSourceHetzner.DataSourceHetzner'> failed
[20:01] <blackboxsw> meena to iterate on get_data: `sudo python3 -c 'from cloudinit.stages import _pkl_load; print(_pkl_load("/var/lib/cloud/instance/obj.pkl").get_data())'`
[20:01] <blackboxsw> that would let you keep loading the detected datasource from the cmdline and re-running the "crawl_metadata" method
[20:01] <meena> which is why, back in the day, i tried to add a "backdoor" into fetching metadata: does network already work? skip whatever you're doing and fetch
[20:01] <meena> blackboxsw: nah, obj.pkl is bad.
[20:02] <blackboxsw> that python cmdline assumes though the datasource that is detected on the system is what you are hoping
[20:02] <blackboxsw> ahh roger
[20:02] <meena> it's either using ec2 or none; the first one works somewhat (it fetches metadata, but not userdata); the latter… well, it doesn't break anything
[20:04] <meena> 2020-12-14 19:41:19,602 - subp.py[DEBUG]: Running command ['ip', '-family', 'inet', 'addr', 'add', '<IP_ADDRESS>/16', 'broadcast', '<IP_ADDRESS>', 'dev', 'vtnet0'] with allowed return codes [0] (shell=False, capture=True)
[20:04] <blackboxsw> meena: so ultimately are you thinking you'll be able to get Hetzner detected properly without failure on BSD? Or is that unattainable?\
[20:04] <meena> blackboxsw: in a year or two
[20:04] <blackboxsw> so January 2021?:)
[20:04] <rharper> nice
[20:04] <meena> i really don't get it, cuz ds-identify works flawlessly
[20:05] <rharper> meena: that looks like the ephemeral DHCP ... is networking already up when you're trying again ?
[20:05] <meena> it clearly identifies Hetzner, and then cloud-init itself is like, well, i dunno what to do with this stuff that ds-identify just told me, i guess i'll just ignore it
[20:05] <meena> rharper: yupp
[20:05] <meena> i'm in via SSH
[20:06] <meena> that was produced by cloud-init init --local btw
[20:06] <rharper> I see, Hetzner is special
[20:06] <rharper> in get_data, they don't bother checking if networking is up
[20:06] <rharper> and call their Ephemeral DHCP a second time
[20:07] <blackboxsw> meena: given that hetzner's datasource is kindof derived from EC2 I could see it kina works. I wonder if ubuntu cloud-images actually specify the datasource_list: [Hetzner] (no None item fallback in the datasource list).
[20:07] <rharper> meena: so, if you were to modify that locally, I'd drop the with cloudnet.Ephemeral() context manager and call the md, ud  code
[20:07] <blackboxsw> but as you said, you are hitting linux-assumption issues  in Hetzner which result in a Trace somewhere during network setup
[20:08] <meena> blackboxsw: lots and lots, hence the net/refactor.
[20:08] <rharper> blackboxsw: did we ever implement cloudinit.net.network_is_up()   I know I've done something like that in the hotplug branch ...
[20:08] <blackboxsw> rharper: checking too. I knew someone referenced it. but it may have just been your branch
[20:10] <meena> what's really bothering me tho is that the ssh-keys are provided in meta_data; and when cloud-init first runs without me messing with it, it can retrieve the meta-data (i can later run cloud-init query ds and *see* it) but it doesn't store the ssh-key to the default user
[20:11] <rharper> they keys are stored in the datasource object; and then a separate stage pulls keys from datasource to default user
[20:11] <meena> https://cloudinit.readthedocs.io/en/latest/topics/instancedata.html#v1-public-ssh-keys ← there's actually no documentation on what to do with those, so, never mind
[20:11] <blackboxsw> rharper: there is EphemeralDHCPv4(connectivity_url=<someurl_to_test>)
[20:11] <rharper> so you'd need to re-run the user_groups mod ...
[20:12] <blackboxsw> which could be provided and would NOOP if already available
[20:12] <rharper> blackboxsw: ah, right, that hits a URL before brnging up
[20:12] <blackboxsw> yeah
[20:12] <rharper> that should work
[20:12] <meena> blackboxsw: i added that.
[20:12] <meena> is it not used by Hetzner?
[20:13] <blackboxsw> though not consumed anywhere at the moment
[20:13]  * meena 🤦🏻♀
[20:13] <meena> i added it, and didn't, use it?
[20:13] <blackboxsw> I think it was groudwork that ended up being used by another utility function on Azure at one point, but I think it didn't get general reference in other datasources.
[20:14] <meena> ef0611a51a98a273cfa37b0daeb3e9d151888b88
[20:15] <meena> so, when i tried to provide a patch to use that, i believe smoser or rharper where against using the md_url as target, because it may not be available at that point
[20:15] <rharper> upstream it looks like it needs to pass connectivity_url=<value>
[20:15] <rharper> which is true at local time... I preferred a network is up
[20:16] <rharper> something like checking if you ahve a default route or an ip on an interface
[20:16] <rharper> there's no point in trying a URL with a timeout if networking isn't even up
[20:18] <meena> rharper: aye. it was a hack, because so much of net/ was unusable on non-linux
[20:20] <blackboxsw> we also now have the availability of distro.networking.is_up(devname) thx to that networking work that meena/Odd_Bloke spent some time one
[20:20] <blackboxsw> *on
[20:21] <blackboxsw> so we should be able to pre-flight check that from the datasource self.distro.networking.is_up(<fallbackdev>)  I think?
[20:21] <blackboxsw> and avoid the EphemeralDCHPv4 context manager if we are up
[20:21] <blackboxsw> we/the dev is/
[20:22] <meena> weird, still no user-data
[20:23] <meena> and i'm pretty, and sure, i provided some…
[20:23] <meena> tho, it was literally just overriding system: distro: freebsd
[20:25] <meena> how do i override or disable vendor-data?
[20:25] <rharper> meena: one other thought;  on linux hetzner instance, if you were to refactor the _getadata such that the metadata-crawl method ran outside of _get_data, one could call it directly, see: cloudinit/sources/DataSourceGCE.py );  verify that refactor works on linux and then see where it fails on bsd
[20:26] <meena> rharper: *nod *nod
[20:28] <rharper> meena: vendor-data: {enabled: False}  in user-data
[20:29] <meena> rharper: thanks
[20:29]  * meena puts that into her default hetzner snippet
[20:31] <meena> whelp, i don't need to override system_info, if i disable vendor-data…
[20:31] <meena> rharper: can we document that somewhere?
[20:31] <meena> this mentions part of it, https://cloudinit.readthedocs.io/en/latest/topics/vendordata.html#input-formats but uses a different key than you do
[20:35] <rharper> meena: well, that's disabling part of vendor-data, vs disabling processing of all of it
[20:35] <rharper> it should be documented there for complete disabling,
[20:35] <rharper> it mentions that you can and fails to include the bits to show how to do that
[20:44] <AU-S2S> I'm trying to add the contrib and non-free repositories to a yaml that will be pasted into a AWS EC2 Launch Template User data.
[20:44] <AU-S2S> This is against the latest Debian Buster AMI. My YAML looks like this:
[20:44] <AU-S2S> # set up apt to include contrib and non-free
[20:44] <AU-S2S> apt:
[20:44] <AU-S2S>   preserve_sources_list: false
[20:44] <AU-S2S>   disable_suites: $RELEASE, $RELEASE-updates, backports
[20:44] <AU-S2S>   sources_list: |
[20:44] <AU-S2S>     deb http://cdn-aws.deb.debian.org/debian buster main contrib non-free
[20:44] <AU-S2S>     deb-src http://cdn-aws.deb.debian.org/debian buster main contrib non-free
[20:44] <AU-S2S>     deb http://cdn-aws.deb.debian.org/debian buster-updates main contrib non-free
[20:44] <AU-S2S>     deb-src http://cdn-aws.deb.debian.org/debian buster-updates main contrib non-free
[20:44] <AU-S2S>     deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates main contrib non-free
[20:46] <blackboxsw> lucasmoura: falcojr another SRU pr https://github.com/cloud-init/ubuntu-sru/pull/183 for maas logs from automated tests
[20:46] <AU-S2S> There are no errors in /var/log/cloud-init..log
[20:46] <blackboxsw> AU-S2S: what version of cloud-init on that image? cloud-init -v ?
[20:47] <AU-S2S> HMM.. stand by.
[20:47] <blackboxsw> also in the /var/log/cloud-init.log ( Cloud-init v. XXX
[20:48] <AU-S2S> 2020-12-14 19:46:17,329 - util.py[DEBUG]: Cloud-init v. 20.2 running 'init-local'
[20:48] <blackboxsw> cool.
[20:50] <blackboxsw> AU-S2S: if you have access to the machine that booted, `sudo cloud-init query userdata` it should show that the userdata was seen by the vm properly
[20:50] <AU-S2S> I'm telling the launch template that the user data is not encoded (which it's not, just plain text).
[20:50] <blackboxsw> also AU-S2S does the first line of your user-data start with #cloud-config?
[20:50] <blackboxsw> if not cloud-init will ignore it
[20:51] <AU-S2S> #cloud-config
[20:51] <AU-S2S> # https://cloudinit.readthedocs.io/
[20:51] <AU-S2S> # https://salsa.debian.org/cloud-team/debian-cloud-images
[20:51] <AU-S2S> # Set up config for EC2
[20:51] <AU-S2S> datasource:
[20:51] <AU-S2S>   Ec2:
[20:51] <AU-S2S>     timeout : 50
[20:51] <AU-S2S>     max_wait : 120
[20:51] <AU-S2S>     metadata_urls:
[20:51] <AU-S2S>       - http://<IP_ADDRESS>:80
[20:51] <AU-S2S>       - http://instance-data:8773
[20:51] <AU-S2S> :-D
[20:52] <AU-S2S> I've run that command before, but I don't remember the output (last week). Give me a bit to re-launch and capture it again.
[20:52] <blackboxsw> hrm, that looks like the content of something in /etc/cloud/cloud.cfg or cloud.cfg.d/ not what I'd expect from the commandline via `cloud-init query userdata`
[20:52] <blackboxsw> no worries
[20:53] <AU-S2S> Yea, that's the top of my yaml.
[20:54] <blackboxsw> ok, that said, I don't recall if the user-data can actually set the datasource. so specifying datasource: keys in your user-data YAML may be worthless.
[20:54] <blackboxsw> s/worthless/ignored.
[20:59] <blackboxsw> yeah it's possible that however the template data is being presented to the vm, maybe there was stray whitespace at the top or a missing header line that causes cloud-init to ignore it without a specific error.
[21:03] <AU-S2S> admin@test1-debian:~$ sudo cloud-init query userdata

[21:03] <AU-S2S> # set up apt to include contrib and non-free
[21:03] <AU-S2S> apt:
[21:03] <AU-S2S>   preserve_sources_list: false
[21:03] <AU-S2S>   disable_suites: $RELEASE, $RELEASE-updates, backports
[21:03] <AU-S2S>   sources_list: |
[21:03] <AU-S2S>     deb http://cdn-aws.deb.debian.org/debian buster main contrib non-free
[21:03] <AU-S2S>     deb-src http://cdn-aws.deb.debian.org/debian buster main contrib non-free
[21:03] <AU-S2S>     deb http://cdn-aws.deb.debian.org/debian buster-updates main contrib non-free
[21:03] <AU-S2S>     deb-src http://cdn-aws.deb.debian.org/debian buster-updates main contrib non-free
[21:03] <AU-S2S>     deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates main contrib non-free
[21:04] <AU-S2S> and when I check sources.list
[21:04] <AU-S2S> admin@test1-debian:~$ cat /etc/apt/sources.list
[21:04] <AU-S2S> deb http://cdn-aws.deb.debian.org/debian buster main
[21:04] <AU-S2S> deb-src http://cdn-aws.deb.debian.org/debian buster main
[21:04] <AU-S2S> deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates main
[21:04] <AU-S2S> deb-src http://security.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates main
[21:04] <AU-S2S> deb http://cdn-aws.deb.debian.org/debian buster-updates main
[21:04] <AU-S2S> deb-src http://cdn-aws.deb.debian.org/debian buster-updates main
[21:04] <AU-S2S> deb http://cdn-aws.deb.debian.org/debian buster-backports main
[21:04] <AU-S2S> deb-src http://cdn-aws.deb.debian.org/debian buster-backports main
[21:14] <AU-S2S> Aha! looks like I have an error in when cc_apt_configure.py tries to convert V2 to V3. But I don't understand what the error is telling me.
[21:18] <AU-S2S> "ValueError: Old and New apt format defined with unequal values True vs False @ apt_preserve_sources_list"
[21:18] <AU-S2S> Is True/False case sensitive?
[21:25] <blackboxsw> it means that you have two keys in your user-data or vendor-data that are suggesting different values for preserve_sources_list      'sudo cloud-init query userdata| grep  preserve_sources_list'    # do you see two settings, one false and one true?
[21:27] <blackboxsw> cloud-init is telling you it can't decide which config value to use (and the older one is a key named "apt_preserve_sources_list" which I think got deprecated in cloud-init 0.7.9
[21:27] <AU-S2S> On the grep - no, just one: admin@test1-debian:/var/log$ sudo cloud-init query userdata| grep  preserve_sources_list
[21:27] <AU-S2S>   preserve_sources_list: false
[21:28] <AU-S2S> Let me query the vendor data..
[21:31] <blackboxsw> AU-S2S: I'm guessing as well if you have two different kinds of userdata/vendordata keys  managing preserve_source_list you might also have two keys trying to set apt sources up, maybe look for something under apt_sources key too?
[21:31] <blackboxsw> the config key "apt_sources" would  be the "old" way to setup apt sources in cloud-init (for cloud-init version 0.7.5 I think)
[21:34] <AU-S2S> Bingo!!  In /etc/cloud/cloud.cfg
[21:34] <AU-S2S> # This preverts apt/sources.list to be updated at boot time, which
[21:34] <AU-S2S> # may be annoying.
[21:34] <AU-S2S> apt_preserve_sources_list: true
[21:37] <AU-S2S> Can I change my yaml to use the old variable name?
[21:49] <AU-S2S> BOOM!!!  :-D
[21:49] <AU-S2S> admin@test1-debian:~$ cat /etc/apt/sources.list
[21:49] <AU-S2S> deb http://cdn-aws.deb.debian.org/debian buster main contrib non-free
[21:49] <AU-S2S> deb-src http://cdn-aws.deb.debian.org/debian buster main contrib non-free
[21:49] <AU-S2S> deb http://cdn-aws.deb.debian.org/debian buster-updates main contrib non-free
[21:49] <AU-S2S> deb-src http://cdn-aws.deb.debian.org/debian buster-updates main contrib non-free
[21:49] <AU-S2S> deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates main contrib non-free
[21:49] <AU-S2S> deb-src http://security.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates main contrib non-free


[06:29] <cnd> RAOF, I see you pushed the x world to the staging ppa
[06:29] <cnd> have you tested it at all?
[06:30] <RAOF> cnd: Almost; I need to push a fixed -evdev and -wacom build.
[06:30] <RAOF> cnd: Yeah; it *mostly* works.
[06:30] <cnd> RAOF, what fixes are needed?
[06:30] <cnd> mostly?
[06:30] <RAOF> cnd: Oh, wacom is confused by input ABI >= 14 and not having those option changes, and I just messed up the evdev build :)
[06:31] <cnd> ok
[06:31] <RAOF> Mostly - synaptics seems to have a weird issue where it sometimes jumps to (0,0).
[06:31] <cnd> I don't know if you saw it, but the XI 2.2 work is ready to be pulled into master :)
[06:31] <RAOF> And Civ V under wine seems to get two sets of wildly different input streams.
[06:31] <cnd> I'll be spending quite some time with synaptics soon
[06:31] <RAOF> Woot!
[06:32] <cnd> so I'll be sure to test it well
[06:32] <RAOF> Apart from that, everything's pretty much good.
[06:32] <RAOF> At least on what I've tested, which has been a couple of synaptics touchpads, a USB mouse, and the nobby bit.
[06:33] <RAOF> Once the PPA has finished deleting the failed-to-build evdev and wacom sources and accepts the new ones, it'll be a full house.
[06:52] <cnd> RAOF, fyi, depending on ppa deletion to work is a recipe for annoyance at the very least
[06:52] <RAOF> Yeah.
[06:52] <RAOF> I know.
[06:52] <cnd> I think it *might* be impossible without behind-the-scenes help if the orig tarball changes
[06:53] <RAOF> I've been tempted because it's worked with previous packages put up in the PPA.
[06:56] <cnd> heh
[06:56] <cnd> tbh, it's not a terrible thing to have high values of ubuntu#
[06:57] <cnd> at least, I don't think it is :)
[06:57] <cnd> I need to sleep...
[06:57] <cnd> but there's code to be reviewed...
[06:57] <cnd> it's all I've done the entire day pretty much
[06:59] <cnd> yay, no meetings tomorrow
[07:00] <cnd> which also means I don't have to get up early
[07:00] <cnd> time to hit the sack
[07:00] <RAOF> :)
[07:01] <RAOF> Ok.  Rejected again, time to bump ubuntu# and reupload.
[19:23] <cnd> RAOF, bryceh: I screwed up
[19:23] <cnd> I pushed the latest upstream x11proto-input
[19:23] <cnd> thinking it was all backwards compatible
[19:23] <cnd> but it's not backwards compatible with what we currently have in the archive
[19:24] <cnd> I'm trying to figure out how to fix this
[19:26] <tjaalton> pushed where?
[19:26] <cnd> precise
[19:26] <tjaalton> ah
[19:29] <tjaalton> so libxi et al that build-depend on it would break if they got rebuilt?
[19:33] <bryceh> cnd, revert the package by uploading the previous version with a new version number
[19:34] <cnd> bryceh, since x11proto-input just builds a package with two header files
[19:34] <cnd> I'm going to try temporarily re-adding in the missing definitions
[19:34] <tjaalton> aren't we going to update the build-depending packages anyway?
[19:35] <cnd> tjaalton, eventually, everything will be updated
[19:35] <cnd> it's the transition period that is bad
[19:37] <tjaalton> what got removed?
[19:38] <cnd> tjaalton, everything that is different between our prototype multitouch implementation and upstream
[19:38] <tjaalton> cnd: ah, right
[19:39] <tjaalton> so adding them back is the only solution?
[19:40] <tjaalton> and then wait for the rest to migrate before dropping the old stuff
[19:40] <tjaalton> again
[19:49] <cnd> hmmm... adding them back won't work
[19:49] <cnd> I'll just reupload with a bumped version number
[19:50] <cnd> <IP_ADDRESS>.really.2.0.2-0ubuntu1
[19:51] <cnd> bryceh, does that sound alright?
[19:52] <cnd> tjaalton?
[19:53] <bryceh> cnd, yep
[20:47] <tjaalton> cnd: so how are we going to get the new backported stuff?
[20:48] <cnd> tjaalton, everything is being staged in ppa:ubuntu-x-swat/x-staging
[20:49] <cnd> once everything is converted over, or at least will build without issue, we will pocket copy packages into the ubuntu archive
[20:49] <tjaalton> ok so it's not going to precise before the holidays then, hence the revert?
[20:49] <cnd> correct
[20:49] <cnd> here's the todo list:
[20:49] <tjaalton> I really doubt we'd rebuild the drivers or libs, it's all x-swat stuff anyway :)
[20:49] <tjaalton> i mean before the new stack
[20:50] <cnd> get evdev with multitouch support built (trivial)
[20:50] <cnd> get synaptics with multitouch support built (non-trivial, nothing upstream yet)
[20:50] <cnd> make sure utouch-geis builds (should be trivial)
[20:51] <cnd> get libxi with multitouch support built (trivial)
[20:51] <tjaalton> sounds like we might get things sorted at the rally?
[20:51] <cnd> port qt multitouch patch to new xi implementation (non-trivial, but shouldn't be too hard/long)
[20:52] <cnd> test to ensure we didn't break anything :)
[20:52] <cnd> which includes testing binary drivers like nvidia and fglrx to ensure we didn't break ABI in the input backport
[20:52] <cnd> but I think that's it
[20:53] <tjaalton> sure, seems fine
[20:53] <cnd> we also don't have to wait for synaptics, evdev, and libxi
[20:53] <cnd> but utouch-geis and qt are blockers
[21:12] <RAOF> tjaalton: If you're desparate to try, ppa:ubuntu-x-swat/x-staging now has a complete set of 1.11 (with 1.12's input stack gloriously backported by Chase).


[07:03] <Flannel> Howdy warlocky
[07:03] <warlocky> heya.
[07:03] <warlocky> well, this is my problem right now.
[07:04] <warlocky> I recently (this morning) accidently removed my php.ini file, and we sorted this out aswell this morning - you helped me out. But now it seems that the php.ini file I'm currently am using is different from the one I removed in the morning. Thus results in my webpage not working correctly (UDP packages not working well obviously)
[07:04] <warlocky> So what we are trying to do, is upgrading to php5.1.6 or such, or just getting our UDP to work correctly. The website seems to go into slow-mo when we load our udp package
[07:06] <Flannel> warlocky: hmm, There appears to be a breezy mirror (unofficual of course) http://bea.cabarel.com/ubuntu/
[07:07] <Flannel> You could use that to reinstall php
[07:07] <Flannel> http://bea.cabarel.com/modules/PunBB/viewtopic.php?pid=1734
[07:07] <Flannel> has a sample sources.list
[07:07] <warlocky> how do I add that to the sources.list?
[07:07] <warlocky> oh
[07:08] <Flannel> However, you must have something else going on, since your updates tried to grab hoary too, which wasn't in the sources.list you showed me
[07:08] <warlocky> I'll double check, a second.
[07:08] <warlocky> You're correct, I don't have hoary in my sources.list
[07:09] <warlocky> W: GPG error: http://bea.cabarel.com dargo Release: The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY 0E28E8629B4D6E8E
[07:09] <Flannel> later versions put some stuff in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/[more files] , but I don't think that was around for breezy, do you even have that folder?
[07:10] <Flannel> http://mirror.math.lsu.edu/ubuntu/dists/
[07:10] <Flannel> try that mirror, you'll end up changing all the urls (but keeping everything else the same)
[07:10] <warlocky> kk
[07:10] <Flannel> er,
[07:10] <warlocky> I get the point :-)
[07:10] <Flannel> remove the /dists/ at the end
[07:10] <warlocky> yea, working on it
[07:11] <Flannel> but its still very odd that apt is still trying to get hoary stuff
[07:11] <warlocky> Failed to fetch http://mirror.math.lsu.edu/ubuntu/dists/dargo/main/binary-i386/Packages.gz 404 Not Found
[07:11] <warlocky> Reading package lists... Done
[07:11] <warlocky> E: Some index files failed to download, they have been ignored, or old ones used instead.
[07:12] <nalioth> it's still in the sources.list, Flannel
[07:12] <Flannel> nalioth: what?
[07:12] <warlocky> well, I'm still getting errors while apt-get updating, I guess I can't install anything unless I stop getting these errors?
[07:12] <Flannel> warlocky: I don't know where that dargo thing came from, remove that line.
[07:12] <warlocky> roger
[07:13] <nalioth> warlocky: have you pasted your sources.list anywhere?
[07:13] <warlocky> Yes, to Flannel before.
[07:13] <Flannel> nalioth: He did last night, there was no hoary
[07:13] <warlocky> This morning, I've spoken to him
[07:13] <nalioth> can we paste it again? or give me the pastebin?
[07:13] <warlocky> well, it's changed now - but I'll give you the old one
[07:13] <warlocky> !pastebin
[07:13] <ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
[07:13] <Flannel> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/30756/
[07:13] <warlocky> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/30799/
[07:14] <nalioth> let me look
[07:16] <nalioth> it's gotta be in there, cuz apt doesnt download from anything but the sources.list
[07:16] <warlocky> (offtopic question: I tried to do a apt-get remove php5, and it removes phpmyadmin too - does that remove the sql databases aswell?)
[07:17] <nalioth> it should leave your databases alone
[07:18] <warlocky> ok, another question: is there a way to see if theres a newer php5 version available?
[07:18] <warlocky> apt-get upgrade didn't show me anything with php5
[07:18] <warlocky> neaither does apt-get install php5
[07:19] <Flannel> warlocky: if you've kept up to date, then there most likely won't be, you already have the newest one.  Breezy has stopped being updated
[07:19] <warlocky> ah ,right


[01:24] <pleia2> sent off articles to summary writers
[17:09] <gonyere> Ill get summaries done tonight/thisv afternoon :)
[17:24] <PaulW2U> gonyere: I've done about half of them of them. I'll leave you to finish off :)
[17:24] <gonyere> K :)


[01:09] <khensura[m]> I cannot get sound out of my Akai MPK mini keyboard how I get it to connect in qjackctl?
[01:12] <khensura[m]> anyone know?
 "I cannot get sound out of my..." <- It seems that the keyboard cannot make sounds by itself. And you can try to connect it to a DAW and add a FX such as sampler or synthesiser to a track.
[07:29] <brucekomike[m]> I am using REAPER and the output I've selected is 'dummy audio'. So I am not sure about whether you can get your keyboard recognised by your computer easily .
[08:57] <brucekomike[m]> I found a tutorial about configuring qjackctl here. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HowToQjackCtlConnections
[23:51] <craigbass76> Is Hydrogen the only good drum machine? I'm looking for something that doesn't use jack.
[23:51] <craigbass76> Eickmeyer: You just missed my question... Is Hydrogen the only good drum machine? I'm looking for something that doesn't use jack.
[23:52] <Eickmeyer> craigbass76: It's a good one, and I don't think it requires Jack necessarily. I've run it without Jack before.
[23:53] <craigbass76> Oh... Well then... I'm upstairs on a Mint laptop and didn't want to go through configuring for just a quickie.


[09:25] <meena> https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/issues/4505 cool cool cool
[09:25] -ubottu:#cloud-init- Issue 4505 in canonical/cloud-init "cloud-init status --wait hangs forever if bootcmd fails" [Open]