[08:34] <frankban> morning gmb, how are you doing?
[08:48] <frankban> gmb: would you like to pair on some card? there is only one free slot in the lane
[11:04]  * gmb lunches
[11:08] <bac> ahoy
[12:06] <gary_poster> benji, did you ask jml if we should run with the tag leakage work he did, or is he planning to bring that to roost soon?
[12:06] <gmb> gary_poster, I think benji's out at the toothiologist.
[12:07] <benji> gary_poster: I didn't.
[12:07] <gmb> I stand corrected.
[12:07] <gary_poster> that was bac, wasn't it?
[12:07]  * gary_poster goes to look
[12:07] <gary_poster> :-)
[12:08] <gary_poster> benji, do you think that's a reasonable thing to do?
[12:08] <gary_poster> benji gmb frankban call in 2
[12:08] <benji> gary_poster: I do
[12:09] <gmb> Meh, people whose name's all start with "B" confuse me.
[12:09] <gary_poster> excellent, benji.  hey, benji, would you please go talk to jml?  you could coordinate with him on the...
[12:09] <benji> gary_poster: sure
[12:09] <gary_poster> :-P
[12:12] <gary_poster> frankban, yoo hoo
[12:50] <benji> gary_poster: Katie came down with what I had last week and I just found out that one of our cats has a vet appointment at 2:30 (our one-on-one time).  Do you mind if we reschedule so I can take him to the vet?  (It should be a short visit and the vet is just outside the neighborhood.)
[12:50] <gary_poster> no problem, of course, benji
[12:51] <gary_poster> benji, 1:15?
[12:51] <benji> gary_poster: sounds good
[12:51] <gary_poster> cool, I will adjust calendar
[12:57] <benji> thanks
[13:30] <gary_poster> frankban, hey, https://talkgadget.google.com/hangouts/_/extras/canonical.com/goldenhordeoneonone when you are ready.  no rush
[14:24] <bac> i am back from the toothiologist
[14:31] <bac> gary_poster: look at all of this local cloudiness we're missing out on:  http://www.ibm.com/solutions/education/cloudacademy/us/en/cloud_academy_conference_program.html
[14:36] <gary_poster> gmb, call in 1 or 2
[14:37] <gary_poster> bac, interesting.  I wish it were easier to keep abreast of all these opportunities in the area
[14:38] <gary_poster> Cloud "Academy" ?
[14:38] <bac> gary_poster: yep, i seem to find out about stuff one or two days late
[14:38] <gary_poster> I guess it is education-y
[14:38] <gary_poster> and thus "Academy"
[14:39] <gary_poster> I mean, for education-related organizations
[14:39] <gary_poster> It looks a bit like an IBM advertisement for their cloud offerings t education people
[14:39] <bac> the university is particularly bad about advance notice of events
[14:39] <gary_poster> hm
[14:39] <gary_poster> gmb you around?  if so, https://talkgadget.google.com/hangouts/_/extras/canonical.com/goldenhordeoneonone
[14:40] <gary_poster> bac, I've done searches for calendars of tech stuff in the area to no avail
[14:41] <gary_poster> find a need and fool it, as Zippy the Pinhead says: maybe we should make one!
[14:41] <gmb> gary_poster, Sorry, my connection went away and I didn't notice.
[14:41] <gary_poster> bac, this is where we are with the PPA and dependencies and stuff: https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/document/d/1msejam1-AliaJ55lVEYayfWlmHTetjGheF3Tzjm9evA/edit
[14:41] <gmb> I'm back up now, though.
[14:41] <gary_poster> cool gmb
[14:42] <gary_poster> https://talkgadget.google.com/hangouts/_/extras/canonical.com/goldenhordeoneonone gmb
[14:42] <gmb> ok
[14:44] <bac> gary_poster: i can start on those PPA tasks if benji hasn't
[14:44] <gary_poster> bac, +1
[14:45] <gary_poster> he is working on the fix for that MP
[14:45] <gary_poster> last I checked
[14:45] <gary_poster> bac also are you done with you slack card?
[14:45] <bac> gary_poster: i just posted something in #juju about the slack card.  i'll move it now.
[14:45] <gary_poster> and finally you could get a juju 8 core buildbot instance up in (optimistic) preparation for figuring out how to hook all of this up
[14:45] <benji> bac: I just updated testr in the ppa; I /think/ the others are up to date, but I'm checking against that doc now
[14:46] <gary_poster> and maybe run a daily test t=while we are at it bac
[14:46] <bac> gary_poster: ok
[14:48] <benji> bac: I just kicked off a build of testtools-daily which should take care of the second bullet point on that doc (the first has been done too)
[14:49] <gmb> gary_poster, Still there?
[14:49] <benji> bac: I have view-only access to the doc for some reason (I'm using my canonical account.)
[14:49] <gmb> I'm guessing no, then.
[14:50] <gary_poster> gmb, we are into robot lag gmb :-(
[14:50]  * gary_poster contemplates skype as an alternative
[14:50] <gmb> gary_poster, Skype works, but I don't have anything to add really; I'll be mailing the list with my UDS plan anyway...
[14:50] <gary_poster> do you have skype gmb?  I just got that on my precise recently
[14:50] <gary_poster> the issue might be on my side, I don't know
[14:50] <gmb> gary_poster, I have skype, and also OSX...
[14:51] <gary_poster> let's skype anyway, if you don't mind, gmb.  lemme log in
[14:51] <bac> benji: i cannot edit it either.  boo google
[14:51] <benji> boogle
[14:51] <gmb> Sure
[14:51] <bac> benji: when the ppa finishes i'll kick off a run
[14:51] <benji> bac: cool
[14:52] <benji> gary_poster: do you want to do the verification dance you did last night or shall I?
[14:52] <gary_poster> bac benji I just made doc editable for you
[14:52] <bac> thx
[14:52] <gary_poster> benji, if you can do it locally, go for it.  If you need an ec2 instance, bac, have you started one yet?
[14:53] <gary_poster> benji, also, we are not really done until the filter stuff is there
[14:53] <gary_poster> or is it done now?
[14:53] <benji> I made the first two bullet points strike-through.
[14:59] <benji> bac: the ppa builds are done; since you are going to verify that the code in the ppa works I will look at the state of the tag filtering
[15:08] <benji> bac: darn, the ppa build of testtools didn't work, investigating
[15:08] <bac> benji: ok, killed my run
[15:09] <bac> it is deceiving that packages that are not yet published show up in the PPA only to die later
[15:15] <benji> bac: I need to add a "ppa#" element to the version string of https://code.launchpad.net/~yellow/+recipe/testtools-daily to make this work, any objections?
[15:16] <benji> I intend to model it after https://code.launchpad.net/~yellow/+recipe/testrepository-latest which is working well.  I will attempt to forgo the "++z" bit though.
[15:16] <bac> benji: there is already a ppa
[15:16] <benji> bac: right, but I'll be changing it from tracking a revno to being hand-updated.
[15:17] <benji> The version number not changing is what caused the packaing to fail.
[15:18] <bac> benji: i think the right thing to do is to merge trunk back into the ~yellow version and use it
[15:18] <bac> at least until we figure out a better scheme
[15:18] <benji> bac: ok, will do
[15:20] <benji> bac: build now pending
[15:21] <bac> benji: we are screwed now when we want to switch back to trunk as our forked branch will have a higher revno
[15:21] <benji> "screwed" in that we can't use the current version string and get higher versions from trunk, right?
[15:22] <benji> I'm starting to think that synthetic, hand-managed version numbers are the only sane approach, that or using the time.
[15:24] <bac> benji: yeah, but hand-coded ones will fail the first time an automatic build is triggered, so we'd need to change to 'build on request' or just take the failure email as a trigger to manually bump the version
[15:25] <benji> yep
[15:26] <benji> makes me think of a hack: have a bot with an email address that gets those failure messages, logs into LP and increments the ppa number and then requests a build
[15:26] <frankban> gary_poster: I am going to create cards for subunit installation in the host if you agree, and I don't remember what you suggested about the lxc-ip branch
[15:27] <gary_poster> frankban, +1 on subunit card...
[15:27] <gary_poster> lxc-ip branch we never actually got around to me saying
[15:27] <gary_poster> I think I outlined the problem and then we got sidetracked
[15:28] <gary_poster> lemme go check at the door & maybe I'll have an answer when I get back
[15:28] <gary_poster> :-)
[15:28] <gmb> gary_poster, Hahaha. See Elliot's latest email to the -tech list about bzr vs git.
[15:29] <frankban> cool thanks gary_poster
[15:35] <gary_poster> gmb, heh, and I'll be interested in seeing Elliot's reply to Chase's follow-on question.  It might conceivably also affect your LP presentation re support and the future
[15:38] <gmb> Indeed...
[15:39] <gary_poster> frankban, we've talked about an answer that I don't love, but I don't see a better one.  If you have another suggestion, *please* make it.  But if nothing else better comes to mind....  (1) the lpsetup package will have lxc-ip, but named something else, like lp-lxc-ip. (2) we will contribute lxc-ip to lxc for the Q/12.10 release.  (3) Q versions of lpsetup would ideally simply have a symlink (or similar) of lp-lx
[15:39] <gary_poster> c-ip to lxc-ip.  Tools using lp-lxc-ip culd gradually migrate to explicitly using lxc-ip at that point, when it makes sense.
[15:39] <gary_poster> what do you think of that?
[15:46] <bac> benji: 0.9.14-bzr267~ppa40~precise1 is built and published.  i'll kick off a test run now.
[15:46] <frankban> gary_poster: that makes sense IMHO. lpsetup can just ship lp-lxc-ip until lxc-ip will be available, and obtain the ip using subprocess rather than calling internal python function
[15:49] <frankban> gary_poster: once lxc have lxc-ip, we just have to 1. remove lp-lxc-ip from the branch, 2. change packaging, 3. change the script name in lpsetup settings file.
[15:49] <gary_poster> frankban, cool
[15:49] <gary_poster> frankban, let's do it then. :-)
[16:18] <bac> benji: after some fiddling, i finally got a master and slave deployed.  setuplxc is now running for the next hour or so.
[17:01] <benji> sitrep: in presuing tag support for libcppunit-dev I managed to get the tests to run on Jonathan's branch, with 10 failures/errors.  I'll looking at them now.
[17:14] <gary_poster> libcppunit-dev?
[17:14] <gary_poster> benji, preparing, then call in a minute
[17:15] <benji> gary_poster: perfect
[17:16] <gary_poster> benji, no rush, ready when you are https://talkgadget.google.com/hangouts/_/extras/canonical.com/goldenhordeoneonone
[17:25] <gary_poster> gmb, if at all possible please try to have your card out of review by your EoD.  If that's not reasonable, np, but everything else is blocked by out-of-squad issues
[17:30] <bac> gary_poster, benji: my slave had an install error b/c launchpad-developer-dependencies was not found.  i'm trying to manually locate it and cannot.  shouldn't it be in the launchpad PPA at https://launchpad.net/~launchpad/+archive/ppa ?
[17:31] <gary_poster> yes bac
[17:31] <gary_poster> weird
[17:31] <gary_poster> no idea on the face of it
[17:31] <gary_poster> we are on call but if you need us s'ok
[17:31] <bac> well that looks quite bad.  i'll investigate
[18:09] <bac> turns out the package 'launchpad-dependencies' we see in the PPA actually builds all of the various 'launchpad-dependencies-*' packages
[18:22] <gary_poster> bac, right, sorry, I knew that.  But so why did the installation fail?
[18:24] <bac> gary_poster: unclear.  http://paste.ubuntu.com/937232/
[18:25] <gary_poster> "it is not going to be installed"
[18:25] <gary_poster> thank you, error message
[18:25] <gary_poster> bac, have you tried installing manually?  maybe a fluke?
[18:27] <bac> gary_poster: i didn't and the instance is gone now.  if this repeats i'll go into the container and try manual
[18:47] <gary_poster> bac, btw, feel free to tell me you want the call at any time. (I do need to leave about 4:10 or 4:15, but that shouldn't affect our regular call time if you just want to have it then.)
[18:48] <bac> gary_poster:
[18:48] <bac> ok
[18:48] <gary_poster> :-)
[18:48] <bac> hey my slave just died again
[18:48] <bac> with install error
[18:48] <gary_poster> :-(
[18:48] <bac> so how does one get into lptests?  uname/passwd ?
[18:51] <bac> gary_poster: ^^
[18:52] <gary_poster> bac, (1) on the host as root change your password (passwd)
[18:52] <gary_poster> (2) get hash from /etc/shadow
[18:53] <gary_poster> (3) copy hash over to /var/lib/lxc/lptests/rootfs/etc/shadow for root
[18:53] <bac> gary_poster: gah, right.
[18:53] <gary_poster> Profit!
[18:53] <bac> pita
[18:53] <gary_poster> y, but quick
[18:56] <bac> gary_poster: The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[18:57] <bac>   launchpad-dependencies: Depends: python-apt (>= <IP_ADDRESS>ubuntu6.4) but <IP_ADDRESS>ubuntu6 is to be installed
[18:57] <bac> so it looks like a problem with our ppa, as i think we maintain python-apt
[19:00] <bac> gary_poster: you want to talk now?
[19:07] <benji> I'm back from the vet.
[19:10] <bac> benji: did you get dipped?
[19:10] <bac> gary_poster: i can have our talk whenever you're ready
[19:14] <gary_poster> bac, sorry, was indisposed.  yeah, let's go to oneonone
[19:19] <benji> :)
[19:23] <gary_poster> bac, is this your network, or should we try skype?  google hangouts have been sadly sucking today
[19:24] <bac> google hangouts says the hangout room is too full for me to join
[19:24] <bac> haven't see that before
[19:25]  * benji looks at the Go tutorial.
[19:25] <bac> skype?
[19:31] <bac> gary_poster: skype me then
[19:33] <gary_poster> bac bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/+branch/ubuntu/lxc/ but also...
[19:34] <bac> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/precise/lxc/precise
[20:10] <gary_poster> bac, TEMP=$(pwd)/temp testr run --parallel --subunit --full-results -- -t stories/gpg
[20:51] <bac> gary_poster: there should be no manual tweaks to the slave required now, correct?
[21:20] <bac> gary_poster: i'm seeing zope:layer tag
[21:20] <bac> time: 2012-04-19 20:56:35.592186Z
[21:20] <bac> time: 2012-04-19 20:57:09.998124Z
[21:20] <bac> test: lp.testing.layers.BaseLayer:setUp
[21:20] <bac> time: 2012-04-19 20:57:10.072074Z
[21:20] <bac> tags: worker-4 zope:layer
[21:20] <bac> successful: lp.testing.layers.BaseLayer:setUp [ multipart
[21:20] <bac> ]
[21:24] <benji> at least we're getting the worker tags
[21:43] <bac> yay worker tags
[22:48] <gary_poster> bac, that means we should verify that we have jono's fix.  if we do, it apparently is not a fix
[22:48] <gary_poster> to state the obvious
[22:48] <gary_poster> but my point was, let's first verify that we have his fix
[22:52] <gary_poster> oh, bac, actually, that's fine
[22:52] <gary_poster> this is the important part, and it is correct
[22:52] <gary_poster> test: lib/lp/registry/stories/gpg-coc/xx-ubuntu-codeofconduct-signer.txt
[22:52] <gary_poster> time: 2012-04-19 22:11:16.022175Z
[22:52] <gary_poster> tags: worker-0
[22:52] <gary_poster> successful: lib/lp/registry/stories/gpg-coc/xx-ubuntu-codeofconduct-signer.txt [ multipart
[22:52] <gary_poster> ]


[08:27] <bbraun> Keybuk: any thoughts on upstart and network based events, like inetd?
[08:28] <Keybuk> bbraun: hi
[08:28] <bbraun> howdy


[01:41] <wallyworld> kelvinliu: we already have a really old version of a python juju client in the stable juju packages archive https://launchpad.net/~juju/+archive/ubuntu/stable/+packages
[01:42] <wallyworld> we should be able to publish a newer "python-libjuju" ppa
[01:42] <wallyworld> to that juju stable archive
[01:42] <kelvinliu> they were pushed 5yrs ago
[01:43] <wallyworld> yeah, realy old
[01:43] <wallyworld> so we just need to push our new "python-libjuju" ppa
[01:43] <kelvinliu> yeah
[01:43] <wallyworld> to that juju stable archive
[01:44] <wallyworld> can do that and update the release process doc for libjuju
[01:44] <kelvinliu> that one was manually pushed
[01:44] <wallyworld> yeah, so updating process doc after doing it manually is all we need for now
[01:45] <kelvinliu> yep
[02:05] <kelvinliu> wallyworld: got a question about the quoteStrings in config process, free to have a quick HO?
[02:05] <wallyworld> sure
[02:40] <thumper> wow it is raining hard here today
[02:40] <thumper> makes me pleased that the stadium has a roof
[02:42] <wallyworld> elton had to abandon a concert here in OZ due to gale for rain, wrecked all the sound gear etc
[02:43] <tlm> now we have gail force wind
[02:54] <hpidcock> Best day of February so far, nice and cool
[04:08] <kelvinliu> wallyworld: should I just continue to change to the spec in the doc?
[04:09] <wallyworld> what was the final outcome of the discussion? i didn't hear it due to sound issues
[04:09] <wallyworld> i disagree with splitting it as it sucks for the user
[04:09] <kelvinliu> wallyworld: stdup?
[04:09] <wallyworld> ok
[09:27] <nammn_de> manadart: around to talk about rename-space? 2 review comments I am not sure
[09:27] <nammn_de> https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/11143#discussion_r373477221 (missing information) and https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/11143#discussion_r373573802 (I tried to solve, not sure if thats what you meant)
[09:41] <manadart> nammn_de: I am in Daily.
[09:42] <nammn_de> manadart: 2 min, cannot find phone for 2fa
[10:16] <achilleasa> jam: manadart regarding our chat on side-effects yesterday, if my open/close ports operation uses the same Ports model and I stack an [open, close] operation, the ports slice of the model will end up in an inconsistent state (open appends an entry, close replaces the port list with a filtered version)
[10:17] <achilleasa> I could tweak the done logic for close to make it work but not sure if it's worth the effort given that the Ports model will be thrown away
[10:18] <achilleasa> (e.g. have close track the entries to be removed instead of the remaining entries and filter the port list in Done)
[10:27] <manadart> achilleasa: Seems reasonable.  As a workaround, I made them into a single op that calculates the final port range list and either does insert or $set. Original tests pass and I am adding some extra ones for composed open/close
[13:14] <nammn_de> manadart rick_h: do we allow the deletion of provider provided spaces?  (Maas)
[13:14] <manadart> nammn_de: No.
[13:21] <rick_h> +1, nope the world is the world we have to live in it
[14:14] <achilleasa> can anyone explain to me why this test works? https://github.com/juju/juju/blob/develop/state/unit_test.go#L1594 I don't see any unit-is-alive (there is one for model-is-alive though) assertions in the open/close txn code https://github.com/juju/juju/blob/develop/state/ports.go#L199
[14:20] <stickupkid> rick_h, fyi: https://github.com/lxc/lxd/issues/6833
[14:20] <rick_h> stickupkid:  <3
[14:42] <manadart> Small mechanical change: https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/11181
[14:42] <stickupkid> manadart, me look
[14:48] <stickupkid> manadart, I looked, also saw you may have fixed a runtime panic?
[14:48] <manadart> stickupkid: We've never hit it AFAIK.
[14:48] <stickupkid> good piece of code then
[14:49] <stickupkid> kill it?
[15:02] <manadart> stickupkid: Volume attachment plans are used by the OCI (Oracle) provider for attaching volumes to instances where the local machine needs to take some actions, I believe.
[15:02] <stickupkid> manadart, but we know that would never have worked, so isn't exercised
[15:04] <stickupkid> manadart, whilst we're at CR sharing https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/11182
[15:10] <manadart> stickupkid: Yep. Can you look at the commit I just pushed to mine?
[15:29] <rick_h> jam:  got it updated and pushed together a bundle with the bits in it https://discourse.jujucharms.com/t/monitoring-juju-controllers/430
[15:32] <stickupkid> manadart, I think we should add a comment and it's done :)
[15:37] <manadart> stickupkid: OK.
[15:38] <stickupkid> something of the lines, "we have no idea what we're doing, but this should fix it"
[15:38] <stickupkid> haha
[15:40] <manadart> nammn_de: I am going over your patch again. I was thinking that given the number of files touched for these, we should break future ones up.
[15:40] <manadart> We can add the API server, client and cmd parts in separate patches.
[15:44] <nammn_de> manadart: agree, should makes everything easier to review
[15:47] <nammn_de> manadart: while running through it. Should we be able to rename-space `alpha`? I did not catch the case if someone wants to rename. i just did, because I thought that we hold by the spaceID and not spaceName
[15:49] <hml> manadart:  it looks like there may have been work done on the duplicate subnets already, but some of it is a work around.  background in https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju/+bug/1733266
[15:49] <mup> Bug #1733266: Autodetection of subnets prevents bootstrap when there are duplicate subnet ranges <cpe-onsite> <network> <openstack-provider> <juju:Fix Released by jameinel> <juju 2.3:Fix Released by jameinel> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1733266>
[15:50] <manadart> nammn_de: We should prevent it. There are some conditions interrogating the name. It can be done in the cmd.
[15:50] <nammn_de> manadart: oh, I need to add this then.
[15:51] <nammn_de> manadart: I will let you finish review first and add the alpha case in the cmd
[15:51] <manadart> hml: Thanks, I'll take a look. I still need to work out why I am not seeing subnets from another network in the same tenant.
[16:09] <achilleasa> manadart: does it work with dev branch?
[16:10] <manadart> nammn_de: Actually, we need to check at the API server, in case someone is using say, pylibjuju.
[16:11] <manadart> nammn_de: QA is looking OK here. Go ahead and add that change.
[16:11] <nammn_de> manadart: will do.
[16:11] <manadart> achilleasa: The network thing? I am using develop HEAD.
[16:12] <nammn_de> manadart: I promise my next pr is gonna be puny :D
[16:12] <manadart> Well, HEAD-ish.
[16:20] <nammn_de> manadart: added
[16:38] <achilleasa> manadart: I am thinking of modifying SettingsGroup in state/settings.go to implement ModelOperation instead of having a Write() method (func equiv to buildTxn+apply). I added this type when I introduced the UpdateNetworkInfo call in uniter. IIRC you recently added a settings op type.
[16:38] <achilleasa> I can probably switch the code to use that and remove SettingsGroup. Thoughts?
[16:39] <achilleasa> nammn_de: I think you used the ^^ type in one of your recent PRs
[16:45] <stickupkid> I wonder why we never used middleware for auth of facades
[16:46] <stickupkid> used composition rather than logic checks
[16:46]  * stickupkid thought of the day
[16:51] <nammn_de> achilleasa:  So I used ModelOperation for the PRs
[16:53] <nammn_de> so no real throughts on the settingsgroup refactor. Their write would comply with applyoperation.  Modeloperation I think
[16:53] <nammn_de> but it does make sense. As they comply both
[16:53] <achilleasa> nammn_de: can you point me to that PR?
[16:54] <nammn_de> achilleasa: https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/11143/files#diff-c2f3a22eae3088d2abd0727df01272e4R2
[16:54] <nammn_de> opfactory.go and rename.go
[16:55] <achilleasa> thanks!
[16:55] <nammn_de> stickupkid: yeah, would be really cool.
[17:19] <achilleasa> manadart: nammn_de actually the SettingsGroup is still required because my use-case requires persisting multiple *Settings in a single txn. I will make it into an operation for consistency
[17:26] <roadmr> rick_h: hey there :)
[17:26]  * roadmr about to pester Rick again heh
[17:26] <rick_h> roadmr:  howdy
[17:26] <rick_h> pester away
[17:27] <roadmr> rick_h: so the list of urls that juju hits, that you obtained from logs
[17:27] <roadmr> rick_h: it has method, url, query string basically. right?
[17:27] <rick_h> roadmr:  right
[17:28] <roadmr> rick_h: would it be possible to get user-agent as well?
[17:29] <roadmr> rick_h: with that we can first weed out non-juju clients and have a better idea of what juju itself needs
[17:29] <rick_h> roadmr:  all those are a generic "go client" user agent
[17:30] <roadmr> rick_h: also lets us see how the api access patterns differ between our targeted juju versions (1.25 and 2.x IIRC)
[17:30] <rick_h> roadmr:  and juju and the charm command are the only ones I am aware of
[17:30] <roadmr> rick_h: ahh that's super unfortunate :( whaat
[17:30] <roadmr> rick_h: ah but the charm command is python, right? most likely not a go client string
[17:30] <roadmr> rick_h: I'd settle for being able to weed out non-jujus
[17:30] <rick_h> roadmr:  so the charm command is a mix of go and python.
[17:30] <roadmr> argh :)
[17:31] <rick_h> roadmr:  trying to recall, I thought I weeded out obvious charm commands
[17:31] <roadmr> rick_h: ah yes, you said "exact requests we're getting form go clients (juju)"
[17:31] <rick_h> roadmr:  as far as different Juju's, my first instinct is forget juju 1.2X as the only folks we care about that are internal and they use offline charms with mojo ime
[17:32] <roadmr> rick_h: ok, that sounds good
[17:32] <rick_h> roadmr:  not to say I did it perfect but do recall trying to really focus it in and did a lot of cleaning of that data
[17:33] <roadmr> rick_h: got it... doh I'm dumb, mind if we move this to #snapstore so facu can also be in the loop?
[17:34] <rick_h> roadmr:  yea, or I'd suggest the canonical #juju channel so other folks on the team can see as well
[20:42] <thumper> rick_h: do you know who to chase for https://github.com/juju/charmstore/issues/895#issuecomment-576562396
[20:44] <rick_h> thumper:  mhilton was working with rt's to folks around these when they happened. I thought this one got corrected
[20:44] <rick_h> maybe the bug didn't get closed?
[20:44]  * rick_h checks rt email history
[20:44] <thumper> maybe
[20:45] <rick_h> thumper:  yea, marked as resolved
[22:04] <wallyworld> rick_h: thumper: test passed this time no problem
[22:05] <wallyworld> we have seen issues if the slaves are busy
[22:06] <wallyworld> thumper: btw, https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/11172 is ready for looking at


[06:33] <jibel> good morning
[06:53] <dholbach> good morning
[08:20] <Noskcaj> where do you download the netboot ppc daily from?
[08:23] <jibel> Noskcaj, http://ports.ubuntu.com/dists/quantal/main/installer-powerpc/current/images/powerpc/netboot/
[08:23] <jibel> or http://ports.ubuntu.com/dists/quantal/main/installer-powerpc/current/images/powerpc64/netboot/
[08:24] <Noskcaj> jibel: thanks, the mini iso?
[08:24] <jibel> Noskcaj, yes
[08:24] <Noskcaj> any idea why its not linked in the testcase?
[08:25] <jibel> Noskcaj, it is http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/240/builds/25941/downloads
[08:25] <Noskcaj> jibel: i meant in the written bit, it links you to the arm builds
[08:25] <jibel> well, there is only 64
[08:26] <Noskcaj> and how do i get into the ubuntu-ppc channel?
[08:26] <jibel> Noskcaj, ah, this is a bug, balloons fixed it for intel but probably not for ppc.
[08:27] <Noskcaj> ok... can i get an invite then?
[08:27] <smartboyhw> Noskcaj, try #ubuntu-powerpc
[08:28] <Noskcaj> smartboyhw: thanks
[08:53] <Noskcaj> how do you use the netboot image?
[08:53] <smartboyhw> Noskcaj, er.....
[09:02] <Noskcaj> i need to know
[09:06] <Noskcaj> the testcases isnt very helpfull
[09:07] <smartboyhw> Noskcaj, I think it is good to search the wiki:D
[09:07] <Noskcaj> ok
[09:09] <Noskcaj> found it! https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/MinimalCD
[09:09] <smartboyhw> Yeah
[09:16] <Noskcaj> should i make a better version of the netboot ppc testcase?
[09:18] <smartboyhw> Noskcaj, if you have time please do :D
[09:18] <Noskcaj> i will try after the release
[13:00] <balloons> jibel, I was holding off on updating the testcases in the middle of the milestone as it will reset the result count when I do so for anything that uses it
[13:03] <jibel> balloons, netboot ppc is untested and not many people tested netboot on intel. So resetting the results of these tests will not hurt
[13:04] <balloons> jibel, fair enough.. I'll go see what I can do ;-)
[13:09] <jibel> balloons, desktop also needs a test case to cover the option 'reinstall ubuntu'
[13:10] <balloons> jibel, everything to do with testcases I've been recording here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/QuantalTestcaseUpdates
[13:11] <jibel> balloons, nice, I didn't know this page
[13:11] <balloons> :-) I keep finding stuff and filling it back up after it gets fixed
[13:12] <balloons> it was intended to help us collectively do the migration.
[13:12] <balloons> which worked well :-)
[14:26] <balloons> hello smartboyhw
[15:08] <mvo> jibel: do you mind if I commit some changes to auto-upgrader-testing or would you like a proper MP ? mostly about removing duplication and importing releavant bits from python3-distupgrade
[15:09] <jibel> mvo, I don't mind, go ahead.
[15:10] <jibel> balloons, can you remove 'ubuntu-cdimage' from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseNotes/Credits/Testers, it's a bot
[15:11] <balloons> jibel, lol -- whoops ;-) Thought I caught all those
[15:42] <jamespage> hggdh: around? iscsi testing?
[16:01] <mvo> jibel: while at it I will add dpkg force-unsafe-io to the upgrade tester if you don't mind
[16:02] <jibel> mvo, oh right, please do.
[16:15] <mvo> jibel: hm, I added it now (via /etc/dpkg/dpkg.cfg.d/99auto-upgrader-tester force-unsafe-io there but hardly any difference :/
[16:20] <jibel> mvo, I spent some time during Precise to try this option and eatmydata too and didn't see any noticeable difference. It was something like 1 or 2 min difference over a 25 minutes upgrade.
[16:20] <patdk-wk> hmm, jamespage scared weechat right out of the channel
[16:20] <jibel> but I thought I did it wrong, so I'm happy you get the same results :)
[16:21] <mvo> jibel: yeah, that matches my finding
[16:22] <mvo> jibel: diff was small so it won't hurt, I will ask cjwatson later if there is more I need to do
[16:42] <jamespage> patdk-wk, hey - the iscsi testing you are doing - is that virtual or on hardware?
[16:43] <patdk-wk> it's in the tracker :) vmware
[16:43] <patdk-wk> I can do physical though, have many of them too
[16:43] <patdk-wk> but I do use iscsi in production on virtual
[16:44] <patdk-wk> so both cases are personally important to me :)
[16:44] <patdk-wk>  Ihave also tried with all the vmware nic's, they all do it for me
[16:44] <patdk-wk> give me 5min, and I'll have physical machine tested
[16:45] <jamespage> patdk-wk, great - thanks
[16:52] <pablo_> someone from the mago (http://mago.ubuntu.com/) project here?
[16:52] <pablo_> why should I use mago instead of ldtp?
[16:56] <patdk-wk> what does that have to do with iso testing?
[16:58] <pablo_> patdk-wk, are you talking to me? if so, I don't know. The mago project page said that this is the place to ask questions about the project
[16:59] <pablo_> nagappan, jcollado, are you guys there?
[16:59] <pablo_> nagappan, jcollado, you're on the mago's project page, so I wonder if I could bother you with some questions
[17:00] <patdk-wk> jamespage, same thing on real hardware
[17:00] <patdk-wk> dell optiplex 755 tested with intel e1000 nic
[17:00] <patdk-wk> e1000e actually
[17:00] <jamespage> patdk-wk, hmm - same behaviour as e1000 in kvm
[17:04] <balloons> pablo_, afaik mago has been deprecated by it's developers
[17:04] <balloons> what are you hoping to do with it?
[17:06] <pablo_> balloons, I'm analyzing different options for testing a pyGTK tool
[17:06] <pablo_> balloons, and found mago after some google searches
[17:06] <pablo_> balloons, want to automate functional testing of the application, already have unittests but want to test the GUI
[17:08] <nagappan> pablo_, jibel and ara are the owners of Mago
[17:08] <balloons> pablo_, I understand. Well, you could use sikuli or xpresser, though they can be argued less maintainable than something that hooks into the accessibility layer
[17:08] <nagappan> pablo_, I just concentrate on LDTP
[17:09] <nagappan> pablo_, and make sure it works fine in Ubuntu / Windows / Mac environment
[17:09] <nagappan> pablo_, mago internally uses LDTP
[17:09] <pablo_> balloons, yes, took a look at xpresser (will read on sikuli) and I don't like the screenshot thing too much
[17:09] <nagappan> pablo_, lately I haven't heard from ara / jibel
[17:09] <pablo_> nagappan, the latest mago release is from 2010, is that correct?
[17:12] <pablo_> balloons, any other tool you can recommend?
[17:12] <balloons> pablo_, https://launchpad.net/autopilot
[17:12] <balloons> however, I am unsure it is supporting gtk yet
[17:13] <balloons> it's certainly not the focus of the tool
[17:15] <pablo_> balloons, thanks!
[17:16] <pablo_> nagappan, do you know why mago died?
[17:23] <jamespage> balloons, your earlier comment about that iscsi boot issue being important might be correct
[17:23] <jamespage> it happens on hardware using e1000 nics as well as in KVM
[17:23] <balloons> jamespage, ohh -- what are you finding out now?
[17:23] <jamespage> see comment from patdk-wk abvove
[17:24] <jamespage> balloons, ^^
[17:24] <balloons> ahh, I see. So what's the thought to proceed?
[17:24] <jamespage> balloons, well its reproducable in KVM/virt-manager
[17:24] <jamespage> balloons, really need someone who understands the early boot process with regards to networking to take a look
[17:25] <balloons> yes, so getting a fix is much easier.. as well as testing it.
[17:25] <balloons> tho we'll verify both real and virtual
[17:25] <patdk-wk> I feel it's more a udev thing, but not sure how the earily boot works exactly :)
[17:25] <jamespage> stgraber, around? - ^^
[17:26] <jcollado> pablo_: Yes, the reason no more effort has been put into it is that the a11y layer isn't that stable as we though, meaning that it's difficult to write tests that are reproducible
[17:27] <jcollado> pablo_: I've been looking forward to seeing a more stable a11y layer, but that hasn't happened yet as far as I know.
[17:27] <nagappan> pablo_, I'm not sure, jibel will be the person to answer "why mago died ?"
[17:28] <jcollado> pablo_: Otherwise, being able to query the application for available widgets and perform actions on them is a good idea.
[17:28]  * jamespage steps away for a bit
[17:29] <nagappan> pablo_, there is an effort from VMware (one of my team member) is working on integrating Sikuli with LDTP, which is yet to be released to public, waiting for legal team to approve our work
[17:50] <pablo_> nagappan, that sounds interesting!
[17:50] <pablo_> jcollado, too bad I missed you :(
[19:31] <njin> bug 1067488
[19:31] <njin> actually only in Vbox
[20:19] <letozaf___> Hello, can someone help me with Gwibber and Flickr integration on Online Accounts ?
[20:23] <phillw> letozaf___: this is not a support channel, if you want a quiet support channel, please try #ubuntu-beginners - It's less hectic than #ubuntu :)
[20:24] <letozaf___> ok thanks it was for testing, but I will ask them all the same :)
[20:28] <njin> bug 1067507 in real hardware
[20:36] <balloons> njin, ohh
[20:36] <balloons> which installation njin ?
[20:36] <balloons> amd64 desktop?
[20:36] <njin> balloons, yes
[20:37] <njin> balloons, the first test run ok, the second crash
[20:38] <stgraber> segfault in apt, could be related to a similar segfault that was fixed this morning
[20:38] <stgraber> if you can reproduce it, try to update the image first to pick up the new apt and see if that fixes it
[20:38] <balloons> did that respin go out?
[20:39] <stgraber> it'll be in the next respin
[20:39] <stgraber> which was just started now
[20:39] <balloons> k -- otherwise etheir me or my zsync was going crazy
[20:39] <balloons> haha
[20:39] <stgraber> I don't remember seeing report of that issue during the install though but we had reports of apt-get install/apt-get update segfaulting for people and that was tracked down to a bad upstream commit
[20:40] <phillw> balloons: do try and pay attention :P
[20:41] <njin> lol, too late for me, goodnight guys.
[20:42] <phillw> njin: it'll be there to check tomorrow, have a good sleep. thanks for testing stuff.
[20:42] <balloons> good night njin
[21:48] <silverarrow> hi
[21:48] <silverarrow> where is the link to the final respin of lubuntu?
[21:50] <silverarrow> is it listed under beta 2 or benchmark
[21:51] <phillw> silverarrow: the respins are just starting, they take several hours.
[21:53] <silverarrow> I see
[21:53] <silverarrow> thanks
[21:53] <phillw> silverarrow: if you go to http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/240/builds you will see all that are being re-spun with a line thorugh
[21:53] <silverarrow> yes, thats the link
[21:53] <silverarrow> thanks again
[21:53] <phillw> when the line goes, they have arrived. they also get announced on here as they get built.
[21:53] <silverarrow> I have it bookmarked on a different computer
[21:54] <phillw> yeah, computer dying with all your links / passwords on is NOT fun :/
[21:54] <silverarrow> horrid lol
[21:55] <silverarrow> I think I will get it  back any day now
[21:55] <silverarrow> maybe tomorrow
[21:56] <silverarrow> there is quite a good group of people on the ppc build, it should go towards a good release
[21:56] <silverarrow> ppc is something you just have to  be stubborn with
[21:57] <phillw> silverarrow: hence the email :)
[21:57] <silverarrow> exactly
[21:58] <phillw> silverarrow: lubuntu & xubuntu are going to be last built as lubuntu asked for the latest chromium update to be included.
[21:58] <silverarrow> I see
[21:58] <silverarrow> latest chromium is worth testing
[21:59] <phillw> with so many chromium bugs flying about, it makes sense that we ship with the latest one.. even though it is only security fixes.
[22:01] <silverarrow> I am looking into how to get b43 cutter and drivers on a usb
[22:01] <silverarrow> there was a guy here the other night who had made it work, called it "persistent install"
[22:02] <silverarrow> I`m not sure how that differs from simply having the packages on a usb flash
[22:03] <phillw> there are some cantacerous people about who will not take "That cannot be done" as an answer, that is what the linux community is all about :)
[22:04] <silverarrow> I like that
[22:04] <silverarrow> when I bought the new battery for my old G4 iBook, there were a guy on youtube who somehow linked to his page in an email
[22:05] <silverarrow> apparently he deals with refurbished powerpc
[22:06] <silverarrow> he installed ubuntu ppc on the exact model I have, made a video about it, and said he could not get wireless and a few other things to work
[22:06] <phillw> (22:58:15) -release team: Copying chromium-browser to release.
[22:06] <phillw> (23:04:00) ***phillw sends said person cookies & beer :)
[22:06] <silverarrow> he didn`t even  make an attempt
[22:06] <silverarrow> cookies and beer, interesting combination
[22:06] <silverarrow> ;- )
[22:07] <phillw> the release team have unusual eating habits ;)
[22:08] <silverarrow> cookie and beer vitamins are important
[22:09] <phillw> we also have to occaisionally slaughter a n00b and let them drink their blood, but who misses the odd n00b? :D
[22:10] <silverarrow> eeww
[22:10] <silverarrow> a blood sacrifice
[22:10] <silverarrow> ¨a long time since that was in use
[22:11] <silverarrow> at least around here
[22:13] <phillw> silverarrow: QA team do not need blood sacrifices, we use sleep deprivation as our punishment :D
[22:14] <silverarrow> very effective
[22:15] <phillw> hmm, I've lost both unit193 and kanliot this evening.... I have a feeling they know that I have a "cunning plan"
[22:16] <phillw> brb, forgot to update the classroom session!
[23:03] <wxl> phillw: are we waiting on 20121016?
[23:03] <wxl> (lubuntu alternate ppc)
[23:04] <phillw> wxl: lubuntu was requested to be put at the bottom of the queue to allow the chromium-browser to build.
[23:07] <wxl> phillw: where was the schedule again? (tracker seems to suggest at least that one is done)
[23:07] <phillw> wxl: the chromium was added a little while ago, across all our archs, as ppc is get it install & run issue I think which version of Chromium we have is some what secondary :P
[23:08] <phillw> wxl: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/240/builds alternates are 'good to go'.
[23:09] <phillw> desktop will possibly be .17 at the end


[07:55] <SiDi> hi
[09:47] <robsta> morning
[09:48] <robsta> ping kwwii
[10:00] <SiDi> hi
[10:19] <thorwil> moin!
[10:19] <robsta> hey thorwil
[10:26] <SiDi> hi thorwil
[10:26]  * thorwil traces outlines for a freelance job
[13:00] <SiDi> kwwii, ping ^^
[13:10] <kwwii> SiDi: pong
[13:10] <SiDi> What's up ?
[13:10] <kwwii> reading through and ansering emails on the list
[13:13] <knome> any regexp wizard? :P
[13:21] <kwwii> mat_t: did you see this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Karmic/Numerals ?
[13:22] <SiDi> kwwii, when did u find the time to visit all barcelona ? Oo
[13:22] <SiDi> knome, tell me i'm meant to have studied them :d
[13:23] <kwwii> SiDi: I spent 10 hours one day doing nothing but walking around and taking pictures :p
[13:23] <SiDi> kwwii, wow :p
[13:23] <SiDi> there were even places i didnt know myself :[
[13:24] <kwwii> ;)
[13:24] <SiDi> why didnt you make a sexy photo of the whole front of the sagrada familia by the evening ?
[13:24] <SiDi> its awesome :P
[13:25] <kwwii> knome: what's the problem?
[13:25] <kwwii> hehe, I didn't like the way it looked with the cranes behind it
[13:25] <knome> nothing anymore, except php not understanding my preg string :P
[13:25] <SiDi> Are those animal photos from the Zoo of barcelona ?
[13:25] <kwwii> I took a lot more pics than I posted
[13:25] <kwwii> no, they are from a farm here in bavaria
[13:26] <SiDi> oh okey
[13:26] <SiDi> none of you ever saw the white gorilla of Barcelona ? :P
[13:28] <kwwii> nope, I missed that#
[13:34] <SiDi> thats a shame
[13:34] <SiDi> was the last one in the world, and he's dead now
[13:37] <SiDi> kwwii, btw, did you talk to the author of the notify-osd icons about the battery ones i made ?
[13:43] <kwwii> SiDi: not yet, I was still hoping to get a response on the font link I posted earlier
[13:43] <kwwii> SiDi: mat_t is the person you want to talk to :)
[13:44] <SiDi> the font link ?
[13:44] <SiDi> mat_t, ping ? :D
[13:50] <robsta> hi kwwii
[13:56] <kwwii> robsta: hey
[14:05] <mat_t> SiDi, hi :)
[14:08] <SiDi> hello mat_t
[14:08] <SiDi> Do you mind having a look at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2009-May/010514.html please ?
[14:09] <mat_t> sure
[14:11] <SiDi> Cheers
[14:11] <mat_t> np - looking now
[14:14] <mat_t> SiDi, where would these icons be used?
[14:15] <SiDi> in gnome-power-manager and xfce4-power-manager's battery state notifications when the user presses XF86Power
[14:15] <SiDi> currently gpm shows the generic "info" icon (the one like a light bulb)
[14:15] <SiDi> and xpm shows the panel's battery icon
[14:16] <SiDi> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Specifications/Karmic/NotifyOsd Example here
[14:19] <mat_t> SiDi, it's nice, but we don't want to use green or yellow - the decision was to use grayscale + red (for warnings) only
[14:19] <SiDi> even very desatured green / yellow ? :]
[14:19] <mat_t> yeah :)
[14:19] <SiDi> :[
[14:19] <mat_t> the battery can still change
[14:20] <SiDi> and what if i make those in black & white then ? :p
[14:20] <mat_t> that would be cool
[14:20] <SiDi> (and maybe some pink for the midlow one :p)
[14:20] <SiDi> btw, these notifications are normally triggered by the user himself (unless low on battery -> warning case)
[14:20] <SiDi> so there shouldnt be such a "drawing attention from focus" problem
[14:21] <mat_t> sure - we don't want to create exceptions though
[14:25] <SiDi> Okey
[14:25] <SiDi> Give me a few mins for a black n white version then ^^
[14:25] <mat_t> thx :)
[14:27] <SiDi> For the middle low (~30%) one, am i allowed to have ~10% red or not ? :p
[14:28] <mat_t> SiDi - the red should only appear when the panel icon turns red
[14:28] <mat_t> so that we have a consistent message
[14:28] <SiDi> Okey
[14:38] <SiDi> mat_t, http://filebin.ca/bfejfq/notification-battery_0.2.tar.gz here it is
[14:39] <kwwii> funny, you both sat across the table from each other last week and I bet you didn't even know it :p
[14:39] <SiDi> We didnt :D
[14:40] <SiDi> c'mon, im sure you still dont know wht i look like kwwii :D
[14:42] <SiDi> btw, i thought about these icons the day after art session :X
[14:43] <kwwii> SiDi: honestly, I don't :p
[14:43] <kwwii> I just repackaged them for the breathe team, so it is much easier to make changes
[14:46] <mat_t> SiDi, thx, looking now
[14:59] <mat_t> SiDi, cool, would be good to test against the bubble background as well
[15:00] <mat_t> see how the inside part work against dark background
[15:04] <macvr> kwwii: hi, regarding the network manager icons for breathe... have to checked the screenshots of the icons? or do u still need to see the icons with light/dark backgrounds?
[15:05] <macvr> U^
[15:06] <kwwii> macvr: to be honest, I was still trying to find the email with the attachment :p I found several others in the meantime ;)
[15:06] <kwwii> but not the one I wanted
[15:06] <macvr> kwwii: wait..
[15:08] <SiDi> mat_t, gonna make a vid, sec
[15:08] <macvr> kwwii: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2009-June/010582.html
[15:10] <kwwii> macvr: thanks
[15:10] <kwwii> macvr: I think that the light version seems to need more definition and better antialiasing
[15:11] <kwwii> the slight curve is hard to do right at that size
[15:11] <macvr> kwwii: no they are all the same version on different panel backgrounds...only the dark is a bit darker
[15:12] <macvr> kwwii: yeah , the lower most bar is not a curve at the bottom :P
[15:13] <kwwii> macvr: one thing to think of is the use of color...we are trying to limit the use of color in the panel to make it more effective
[15:14] <macvr> kwwii: oh , no... the lack of color in win7 looks unattractive :(
[15:16] <kwwii> I would aruge that the need to show an icon for connection at all is a bug and that the use of the icon is for informative purposes. Ideally all of this would be transparent to the user so we would be correct to move in the direction of less is more
[15:18] <macvr> kwwii:but dont u think that the user would want to know tht status of the signal, and be notified about the strength if he moves away? right now the only notification he gets is if the signal is lost, if u take out the icon " for wireless" that would be bad, maybe ethernet is not needed... still i dont think this color is too much of a distractor .
[15:20] <kwwii> the bars already represent strenght, why does it need color as well?
[15:20] <macvr> kwwii: and we still havent removed the icon, so breathe might require one atleast then :)
[15:21] <macvr> kwwii: well for the lower signals, the red/yellow color is a quick indicator.
[15:21] <kwwii> macvr: sure, breathe is free to do as it pleases
[15:22] <SiDi> Damn, 5 minutes for uploading  a poor video
[15:22] <kwwii> red=problem to me
[15:23] <macvr> kwwii: yup, low signal sometimes leads to poor transfers, so i think it is a problem.
[15:23] <kwwii> poor != problem
[15:23] <kwwii> none = problem
[15:23] <SiDi> i must agree with kwwii
[15:24] <kwwii> lol, I give up on trying to sound intelligent
[15:24] <SiDi> im always on low signals
[15:24] <SiDi> cause im in public places
[15:24] <macvr> kwwii: oh... ok. so which color would be ideal for low signal? yellow?
[15:25] <SiDi> no color, macvr :)
[15:25] <macvr> SiDi: :(
[15:25] <SiDi> a low signal is a normal thing. When it goes at 20/30 % there begin the connectivity problems
[15:25] <SiDi> but anything above is just a bit slow, but its normal in many cases
[15:26] <kwwii> I think that signal strength doesn't need a color
[15:26] <macvr> SiDi: the red is usedfor 25%
[15:26] <macvr> kwwii: ok.. , i just thought that the old hi-color uses blue for all , so wanted to spice it up... :P
[15:26] <kwwii> the connection animation might use red and green to denote that a connection was established or not...the red is also good for when you lose connection
[15:26] <SiDi> http://filebin.ca/ctrxoj/out-1.ogv mat_t
[15:27] <kwwii> everything else is just overkill, if you ask me
[15:27] <kwwii> going online is not the momentous occasion it used to be :9
[15:28] <macvr> kwwii: yup..!
[15:28] <macvr> kwwii: but if u guys do the icon in greyscale it would look exactly like the win7 wireless icons :(
[15:29] <SiDi> oh btw macvr during the connection animations, do you make the distinction between the connection part and the DHCP query part ?
[15:29] <macvr> SiDi: ya
[15:29] <SiDi> macvr, not our fault if they copy our genious ideas :p
[15:30] <macvr> SiDi: but we still havent implemented it... have we? so they walk away being the genius!
[15:30] <SiDi> macvr, i cant recall of microsoft having voluntarily made a good usability choice
[15:30] <macvr> kwwii: i was mentioning the greyscale of the present wireless hi-color icons
[15:31] <macvr> SiDi: they never did , nor will they ever!
[15:31] <kwwii> well, simple indicators are what they are
[15:31] <kwwii> simple
[15:31] <kwwii> there is little creativity in showing the levels of something with so few pixels
[15:31] <mat_t> SiDi, looks great
[15:31] <SiDi> good :]
[15:31] <mat_t> :)
[15:32] <macvr> kwwii: what about greyscale of the ones i'v made?
[15:32] <kwwii> macvr: well, I stil think the form needs slight improvements
[15:32] <macvr> kwwii: ok.
[15:32] <kwwii> but otherwise, nice
[15:36] <macvr> SiDi: <rant>M$ is so horrible! that they do not provide the transparent windows borders when it can easily be done by a simple uxtheme modifications! i feel the only reason they are not doing it is just to sell more of the ultimate version! <rant>
[15:36] <SiDi> of course, what do you think ? they wanted the netbook edition not to be able to run more than an app at a time
[15:36] <macvr> kwwii: ok... i'll see if i can make one in greyscale... :)
[15:37] <SiDi> I dont know if they count their endless popup messages and such as apps though
[15:37] <macvr> SiDi: 3
[15:37] <macvr> SiDi: but that seems to have been scrapped!, also they are adding the size limit!
[15:37] <macvr> for netbooks
[15:42] <macvr> kwwii: would the icons looking like the notify-osd be fine for the panel as well?
[15:43] <kwwii> macvr: well, the forms yes, but not the style as it would be too weak on certain backgrounds
[15:45] <macvr> kwwii: yup... i was asking for the form... didnt want to do a lot of work for this curved style and not be used !
[15:45] <SiDi> macvr, its things that happen though :P
[15:46] <macvr> SiDi: got to get used to it :P
[15:47] <kwwii> macvr: ideally, whatever we present in the panel would use the same metaphor as what is used in the notifications (or elsewhere, for that matter)
[15:48] <macvr> kwwii: actually that was what was discussed in the mailing list... but i thought of using these icons in the notifications :P
[15:51] <kwwii> macvr: right, unfortunately, I was somewhat away from my email last week and the breathe discussion didn't get noticed until I returned home
[15:52] <kwwii> having time to discuss things directly in irc works much better than email :)
[15:52] <kwwii> well, for some things
[16:00] <macvr> does anyone know what "unset" for the fill and stroke means? since i'm new to inkscape
[16:02] <SiDi> Dunno, got it in french here :]
[16:02] <kwwii> it means remove it
[16:02] <kwwii> or there is no fill/stroke
[16:03] <kwwii> where do you see that?
[16:03] <macvr> kwwii: how come it will say there is no fill/stroke even thought the colors are displayed? i'm checking the notify-osd icons
[16:03] <SiDi> Oo
[16:04] <kwwii> macvr: which one specifically? I'll open it and then we can figure this out
[16:04] <macvr> all
[16:04] <macvr> wireles
[16:07] <kwwii> macvr: ungroup things
[16:08] <kwwii> the groups themselves have no traits
[16:08] <kwwii> but the objects within them do
[16:08] <macvr> kwwii: ? how do i do that? u mean the borders and the bars?
[16:08] <kwwii> oh, and unset=black
[16:10] <kwwii> so there are elements with fills and stuff but the black stuff says "unset" which means it has a black fill by default in svg
[16:11] <macvr> kwwii: what is the benefit of unset rather than using the regular black fill/stroke?
[16:11] <kwwii> wow, those svgs are not very nice in an xml editor
[16:12] <kwwii> macvr: to be honest, I think that was done by a script to reduce the size of the svg
[16:13] <kwwii> for instance, in every svg there is a polka dot pattern
[16:13] <kwwii> freaky
[16:14] <kwwii> I really don't remember doing that
[16:14] <macvr> kwwii: ya i saw the dots :)
[16:15] <macvr> kwwii: ok... thanx...  will try to work on the icons ... it try to see if i can make the icons which display the curves in the greyscale[just to make sure it doesnt resemble M$ :P], but if not will make thme like regular bars :)
[16:16] <macvr> kwwii: also the panel icons need to be of the 22px?
[16:16] <kwwii> macvr: some are 22x22, some are 16x16
[16:16] <kwwii> depending on what you are working on
[16:17] <macvr> kwwii: the old high color are in 22px, i'll see what can be done... thanx
[16:18] <kwwii> macvr: right, I think they are 22x22 and the current ones are just padded 16x16 icons in a 22x22 image
[16:19] <macvr> kwwii: so for best usage? which size do i do?
[16:19] <kwwii> macvr: well, try it at 22 and see how it looks on the panel itself
[16:20] <kwwii> I think that 16x16 looks better because you have more paddign to the panel edge
[16:20] <kwwii> but depending on what the shape of the icon is this can vary
[16:20] <macvr> kwwii: could u explain that? if i wanted a curve?
[16:20] <kwwii> ie a 4px horizontal bar in the middle of the 22px icon has plenty of padding anyway :)
[16:21] <kwwii> it is an issue of vertical panel from the top and bottom of the icon to the edge
[16:21] <kwwii> see what looks best for the form you are using then make a decision and make them all that size
[16:21] <macvr> ok.
[16:44] <SiDi> mat_t, so, is there a chance to have those icons in Human, so that i can begin patching the power managers ?
[16:48] <mat_t> SiDi, sure, put them in \
[16:49] <mat_t> thanks - good work
[16:49] <SiDi>  i dont think i can put them anywhere myself :)
[16:49] <kwwii> SiDi: I can help you with that :)
[16:50] <SiDi> good ! :P
[16:50] <kwwii> SiDi: send me a tar.gz (or whatever) with your final versions per email and we can continue the discussion from there
[16:50] <SiDi> okey
[16:50] <SiDi> i'll do a few tweaks and make sure i vacuum the defs of the svg's then
[16:50] <kwwii> I am working on an update for the icon theme package currently anyway
[16:50] <SiDi> give me 10 mins :)
[16:51] <SiDi> any new icons planned ? :D
[16:51] <kwwii> no hurries, send me something by tomorrow or so
[16:51] <kwwii> for now I am trying to clean out the cruft
[16:51] <kwwii> things change so quickly without notice :)
[16:52] <kwwii> developers seem to like playing icon-name-bingo
[16:52] <SiDi> yeh :P
[16:53] <SiDi> the xfce icon names are.. weird
[17:01] <SiDi> oh, any idea whos responsible for the wiki themes ?
[17:02] <kwwii> well, it depends on which wiki
[17:02] <kwwii> the kubuntu people take care of their own theme, for instance
[17:03] <kwwii> but they are still using the one I made for them a long, long time ago :p
[17:05] <SiDi> well, any idea how to get started to make a theme ?
[17:05] <SiDi> i want one for the xubuntu wiki :D
[17:06] <knome> SiDi, ask me for help once you've started :P
[17:06] <SiDi> Cause the brown doesnt look sexy with our blue custom menu :P
[17:06] <SiDi> knome, no :p its my toy !
[17:06] <SiDi> you go design an usplash before i _really_ do what i said i'd do knome ;)
[17:07] <kwwii> time for a meeting
[17:27] <SiDi> oh btw, Human doesnt have the gpm-ups-xxx icons
[17:27] <SiDi> only the gpm-ups-xxx-charging
[18:44] <knome> SiDi, meh
[18:44] <SiDi> why
[18:44] <knome> ;)
[18:47] <SiDi> i wonder if i should go on karmic
[18:48] <knome> why not?
[18:48] <SiDi> cause i need to send a dmesg to a kernel.org guy with the very kernel i have now
[18:48] <SiDi> but i cant till im back home
[18:49] <SiDi> cause i'll need another machine to get the dmesg while this one is booted
[18:49] <SiDi> well
[18:49] <SiDi> long story :p
[18:49] <knome> hmh
[18:49] <knome> i need to go wash my hand
[18:49] <SiDi> my keyboard doesnt work with vanilla kernel
[18:49] <knome> a sneezed a bit too hard
[18:49] <SiDi> so i use some boot options
[18:50] <SiDi> and i gotta get a dmesg with a debug option but my keyboard's broken then ^^ so gotta ssh
[18:50] <SiDi> and got no ssh
[18:51] <knome> ehm
[19:08] <macvr> kwwii: are u there?
[19:09] <macvr> kwwii: i'v just tried a icon concept in the grey scale and sent it to the mailing list. could u check it out?
[19:46] <macvr> kwwii: ping!
[19:47] <SiDi> if he doesnt answer, you should give him some time instead of pinging him again and again :D
[19:48] <macvr> SiDi: it was nearly half hr so..
[19:48] <macvr> SiDi: did u check the mail?
[19:49] <SiDi> no :P
[19:49] <macvr> SiDi: could u check it out?
[19:51] <SiDi> that looks damn blur to me :/
[19:52] <macvr> he wanted a 24px size...
[19:52] <macvr> but even so... its is just a rough mockup... what do u think of the design?
[19:54] <macvr> SiDi: just made up that design, since the last time i was herein the irc ! i'm no way an expert to make a production ready icon in such a short time :P
[19:54] <SiDi> its not really usable as it is :P
[19:54] <macvr> noway
[19:54] <SiDi> i honnestly preferred it with colour
[19:54] <macvr> u cant use that, it has a background
[19:55] <SiDi> apart from that i meant
[19:55] <SiDi> i dont know if its the scaling + png rendering but they look both blur and aliased here :P
[19:55] <macvr> i too want color, but the team seems to want something that doesnt disturb!
[19:55] <SiDi> i guess its a price to pay for curved icons at size a resolution, but still
[19:55] <macvr> how do i do the antialaised?
[19:56] <SiDi> you cant really do it :p
[19:56] <macvr> oh...
[19:56] <SiDi> Ask kwwii if its possible to go for black & white & one unique colour as the current one
[19:56] <SiDi> cause white on dark background defo doesnt look nice to me. and i have tons of systray colorfull icons anyways :]
[19:58] <macvr> does he usually go off for hrs?
[20:00] <SiDi> He's got a social life too, you know :)
[20:00] <SiDi> and he works for Canonical
[20:01] <macvr> it would be useful if we know when he is away! and when online
[20:01] <SiDi> No privacy for him ?
[20:02] <macvr> i didnt mean thaat way :(
[22:49] <SiDi> dashua, friend request on *-look.org , you evil :[