[00:08] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: re https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/clutter-gtk/+bug/456269, you need to target the upload to karmic-proposed.
[00:13] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, ah, ok
[00:15] <chrisccoulson> robert_ancell - i just noticed you touched bug 132413 a couple of months ago. based on the fact that the upstream report has been marked WONTFIX for 2 years, do you think we should just close the Ubuntu bug too?
[00:15] <chrisccoulson> the changes would be far too big to maintain as a distro patch anyway
[00:15] <robert_ancell> chrisccoulson, looking
[00:16] <chrisccoulson> thanks
[00:16] <chrisccoulson> i would just close it, but i wanted someone elses opinion first ;)
[00:16] <robert_ancell> chrisccoulson, yeah, I'd say close it
[00:16] <mclasen> in the end we'll just have one capplet, and we'll call it 'control-center'...
[00:16] <chrisccoulson> thanks, i'll do that now
[00:16] <robert_ancell> mclasen, :)
[00:16] <chrisccoulson> mclasen - yeah, that would be better:)
[00:16] <mclasen> and then the cycle will restart anew...
[00:16] <mclasen> we've been there 2 times already :)
[00:16] <robert_ancell> the age old problem of categorisation - you can never find the perfect boundaries
[00:23] <chrisccoulson> i don't know what the plans are for gnome-control-center this cycle, but we really need to clean up some of our distro patches and make them more acceptable for upstream
[00:23] <chrisccoulson> our g-c-c package is becoming unmaintainable with all the patches we have
[00:24] <TheMuso> chrisccoulson: Note that a lot of that is from Debian.
[00:24] <chrisccoulson> TheMuso - yeah, we should probably try to get some of them upstream where appropriate anyway
[00:25] <chrisccoulson> and we don't always have to use the debian patches either. for example, debian maintain some really wierd and large patches for gnome-panel, which we don't use in ubuntu
[00:25] <chrisccoulson> s/wierd/weird
[00:28] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: re brasero, I'll tweak the repo for karmic-proposed, but thanks for the debdiff.
[00:29] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, oh, now I see what you mean
[00:33] <KurtKraut> I've noticed that on Karmic, notify-osd is showing alerts in a much lower position. This is quit anoying. Is this normal? Here is a sample: http://www.kurtkraut.net/images/isitnormal.gif
[00:34] <chrisccoulson> KurtKraut - thats the expected behaviour, and has been discussed extensively on the mailing lists recently
[00:35] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: Ok for clutter-gtkk, its probably necessary to make changes to the bug as described at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
[00:35] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: brasero is fine as is, so I'll go ahead an upload.
[00:36] <KurtKraut> chrisccoulson, I got so surprised with that I came here to check before making a bug report. I could barely belive this was intencional. Thanks for your clarification but let shift the focus a little bit: can I set notify-osd to the height that Jaunty had?
[00:36] <chrisccoulson> KurtKraut - no, it's not configurable
[00:37] <KurtKraut> chrisccoulson, thanks again for your information. But I cannot hide how I'm very disapointed to know that.
[00:37] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, what would you write for it that is not already in the description?
[00:39] <chrisccoulson> KurtKraut - there is extensive discussion about the change here: https://lists.launchpad.net/ayatana/msg00751.html
[00:39] <chrisccoulson> including some rationale why the decision was made
[00:41] <KurtKraut> chrisccoulson, I'll read it and join my voice to the groups of users that find this new position incredibly annoing.
[00:41] <chrisccoulson> fantastic, totem has just crashed on me and leaked a session inhibitor in the process:(
[00:43] <chrisccoulson> KurtKraut - i'm not sure it needs any more people ranting about the new behaviour on the mailing lists ;)
[00:45] <KurtKraut> chrisccoulson, I can see your point but the fact Karmic was released with such a bad design decision is an evidence that this haven't received enough attention and consideration.
[00:46] <chrisccoulson> KurtKraut - it received plenty of consideration and attention in karmic, as you will find out when you read through that thread ;)
[00:47] <chrisccoulson> heh, i bet dobey's inbox is filling up with duplicate U1 bugs ;)
[00:47] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: well as per that page, discuss why this is needed, the regression potential needs to be talked about as well.
[00:48] <kklimonda> btw
[00:48] <chrisccoulson> it seems most users aren't checking if a bug is already reported
[00:49] <kklimonda> the new dialog that asks for permission to, for example, change cpu frequency or governor doesn't have option to keep authorization
[00:50] <chrisccoulson> kklimonda - that's part of the new PK design
[00:50] <kklimonda> how to keep it and avoid typing password now and then?
[00:50] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson, i know, i know
[00:51] <chrisccoulson> it should keep the authorization, with an option to drop it by clicking on the status icon that appears
[00:51] <chrisccoulson> is that not happening?
[00:51] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson, but it doesn't keep it over sessions
[00:52] <chrisccoulson> there's no way of doing that with the new design
[00:52] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson, can I say that it's stupid?
[00:53] <chrisccoulson> i'm not sure it's stupid really. if you're going to keep authorizations between sessions, then there's probably no need for any authentication in the first place
[00:53] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson, btw - what happened to all settings concerning removable disks? as in who can mount or eject them?
[00:53] <chrisccoulson> which settings?
[00:53] <kklimonda> in 9.04 you could launch polkit-gnome-editor (or whatever it's called) and set up which users/groups can/can not mount removable devices
[00:54] <chrisccoulson> there's no such tool which exists for the new API
[00:54] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson, but it's still possible?
[00:54] <chrisccoulson> it's still possible to edit policies, but you'd need to read the PK documentation to figure out how
[00:54] <chrisccoulson> i've not tried configuring it yet
[00:55] <kklimonda> looks like a nice todo item for 10.04 ;)
[00:55] <chrisccoulson> kklimonda - see https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/PolicyKitOne#Release_Notes
[00:57] <kklimonda> i can't..
[00:57] <kklimonda> stupid ipv6
[00:57] <kklimonda> time to disable it
[00:58] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson, Is it this page where they state that the current policy editor is bad and something else should be written? ;)
[00:59] <kklimonda> huh, text files?
[00:59] <chrisccoulson> it's not actually what i thought it was (i probably should have read it first), but it does have a link to documentation which helps you configure it
[01:00] <kklimonda> and here I thought we were moving away from manually editing text files :)
[01:01] <chrisccoulson> we're moving away from giving users a gazillion confusing ways to customize their machine in the UI ;)
[01:02] <chrisccoulson> out of interest, how come you need to adjust CPU frequency regularly? does the ondemand governor not work well for you?
[01:02] <kklimonda> frankly I find all changes made in 9.10 making Ubuntu more confusing than 9.04 :/
[01:02] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson, I have broken fan
[01:03] <chrisccoulson> ah, ok, that makes sense
[01:03] <chrisccoulson> in normal circumstances, there should be no need to change the governor
[01:03] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson, but the question was actually from a guy who tries to scale cpu to the lowest level to save battery time
[01:03] <kklimonda> which is probably wrong
[01:03] <chrisccoulson> yeah, that's a myth
[01:04] <chrisccoulson> the lowest power consumption will occur when the CPU can get the tasks done in the fastest amount of time
[01:04] <chrisccoulson> so that it can sleep for longer
[01:04] <chrisccoulson> forcing a slower clock speed means the CPU sleeps for less, and power consumption is no better (or possible worse)
[01:05] <kklimonda> ya, I remember reading that
[01:05] <kklimonda> btw
[01:05] <kklimonda> was something changed after 8.04 release? my laptop decided to shutdown (probably due to overheating)
[01:06] <kklimonda> shutdown as in shutdown and not power off without delay
[01:06] <chrisccoulson> not sure - i don't know what would cause that
[01:06] <kklimonda> during apt-get upgrade ;)
[01:06] <chrisccoulson> ouch
[01:07] <kklimonda> It wasn't that bad - I was able to dpkg --configure -a from terminal
[01:07] <chrisccoulson> i'm impressed. most users just report a bug rather than reading the instructions ;)
[01:08] <kklimonda> well, I'm not really most of users ;)
[01:08] <chrisccoulson> yeah, thats true
[01:08] <kklimonda> but still it was an unexpected and stressful experience
[01:09] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i can imagine
[01:09] <bryce__> I had that happen with a laptop that had a busted fan
[01:09] <bryce__> cpu would overheat and it'd shut down
[01:10] <bryce__> cpu frequency scaling helped some, but I ended up just chucking the system (it was old and nvidia based anyway)
[01:10] <kklimonda> bryce__, but shut down system or poweroff completely without delay?
[01:10] <bryce__> powered down without delay
[01:10] <bryce__> * ppfftt *
[01:10] <kklimonda> bryce__, my main machine is busted (at least gpu - I can still use it as a server/ssh working station ;) )
[01:10] <kklimonda> and this one is some very old Thinkpad
[01:11] <kklimonda> fan works some of the time
[01:11] <bryce__> especially during upgrades or software builds, where cpu would be under some load for a while
[01:11] <bryce__> maybe see if you can monitor the cpu temperature
[01:11] <kklimonda> bryce__, I know it was overheating - I can feel it :)
[01:11] <chrisccoulson> bryce__ - do you not like nvidia based hardware? ;)
[01:11] <bryce__> as a workaround, what I'd do is put a box fan blowing over the keyboard
[01:12] <bryce__> chrisccoulson, *pffttt*
[01:12] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson, I'm actually considering buying a desktop pc with integrated intel gpu ;)
[01:12] <chrisccoulson> yeah, don't get nvidia
[01:12] <kklimonda> or some old radeon
[01:12] <chrisccoulson> 2 words - "white windows"
[01:12] <chrisccoulson> (if you're doing user switching anyway)
[01:13] <chrisccoulson> hate hate hate nvidia
[01:13] <chrisccoulson> my last nvidia card failed as soon as the warranty expired too ;)
[01:14] <bryce__> http://www2.bryceharrington.org:8080/X/Graphs/drivers.svg
[01:14] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson, same here - I have had mother board replace a little over year ago because of gpu and not it's the same problem..
[01:14] <bryce__> nvidia-180 is now the X video driver with the most bugs filed against it
[01:15] <kklimonda> openchrome looks pretty decent ;)
[01:15] <kklimonda> bryce__, it doesn't mean much without number of installations :)
[01:15] <chrisccoulson> bryce__ - i don't report any bugs against the nvidia driver any more. i'm not sure what we're meant to do with them really
[01:16] <kklimonda> neither do I
[01:16] <bryce__> chrisccoulson, yeah I don't really look at them, except if they're misfiled against !nvidia
[01:16] <bryce__> (and then I just refile them)
[01:17] <bryce__> kklimonda, unless more people are buying nvidia systems lately, just looking at the nvidia curve alone tells you there seems to be a problem
[01:17] <kklimonda> bryce__, why is intel so buggy? I hear people complaining all the time about intel drivers in ubuntu
[01:17] <kklimonda> (I don't really listen to users of other distributions so I don't know if it's ubuntu-specific problem :) )
[01:17] <chrisccoulson> the driver works reasonably well for single user systems, but the user experience is pretty rubbish if you're doing user switching
[01:18] <bryce__> kklimonda, it's like you alluded to - -intel is a popular driver and more people use it than other things so run into more bugs
[01:18] <chrisccoulson> especially when applications (eg, update-notifier / update-manager etc) open windows in the inactive session
[01:18] <bryce__> also rate of development on -intel is high so new bugs are introduced all the time
[01:18] <bryce__> kklimonda, however it should be pretty solid these days.  what in particular are people complaining about?
[01:18] <kklimonda> bryce__, performance :)
[01:19] <kklimonda> or "compiz doesn't work" ;)
[01:19] <bryce__> oh people always complain about performance on intel
[01:19] <bryce__> but usually the only testing they do is with glxgears, and that's pretty useless
[01:20] <bryce__> anyway, most of the bugs this past year on -intel have been due to the rearchitecting they did, to XAA/KMS/etc.
[01:21] <chrisccoulson> does anyone have any success with ATI these days?
[01:21] <kklimonda> I wonder if we'll be able to smooth all the rough edges all those transitions has created till 10.04 :/
[01:21] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson, I remember that radeon 8500 was fairly good ;)
[01:21] <chrisccoulson> cool. i need to start thinking about what my next desktop will consist of ;)
[01:22] <bryce__> yeah -ati is pretty good on R5xx and earlier
[01:22] <bryce__> for R600 and up you need -fglrx, which works passingly well
[01:22] <bryce__> performance is good too, compared with -intel
[01:23] <kklimonda> I'm probably going to buy some well supported (as in fairly old) ATI card and become a laughingstock..
[01:23] <bryce__> compiz can be so-so, and no KMS
[01:23] <bryce__> I use a R5xx chip for my main desktop and have been quite pleased with it
[01:23] <bryce__> although I don't do heavy gaming or anything
[01:24] <bryce__> but most games I've tested have been playable
[01:24] <chrisccoulson> i don't do any heavy gaming either. which makes my current card a big waste of money really
[01:24] <kklimonda> I guess buying a cheap gpu and gaming console is a better investment if you are interested in linux :)
[01:24] <bryce__> R5xx cards are cheap too since they're fairly old.  Can't get them in a laptop tho
[01:25] <chrisccoulson> i currently have a factory overclocked 512MB 8800GT, and I struggled to get it in my full-size tower
[01:25] <kklimonda> my next laptop is going to be a netbook.. something I can just throw away when warranty ends..
[01:25] <chrisccoulson> i had to hack fins off the chipset cooler to get it to fit in ;)
[01:25] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson, interesting choice :)
[01:25] <bryce__> kklimonda, just avoid anything poulsbo
[01:25] <bryce__> aka GMA500
[01:26] <kklimonda> and 4500? :)
[01:26] <kklimonda> bryce__, GMA500 is just not well supported yet or is that some obscure technology that is not going to be supported well in a short term?
[01:27] <bryce__> chrisccoulson, yeah one of my test cards is this hurking nvidia thing, that takes up two pci slots in height and is long as the motherboard in length.  It's bigger than a cdrom drive
[01:27] <chrisccoulson> bryce__ - yeah, the size of some current cards is ridiculous really
[01:27] <chrisccoulson> i never thought i would have an issue fitting anything in to my case, as it's quite big
[01:28] <bryce__> kklimonda, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_GMA#Linux
[01:28] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson, their are basically separate computers :)
[01:28] <kklimonda> bryce__, yeah, I've just read..
[01:28] <chrisccoulson> kklimonda - they are. and it even has it's own power feed
[01:29] <kklimonda> bryce__, it's almost like SB Live 24bit :)
[01:29] <chrisccoulson> when i build my next machine, i should probably build a machine that idles at less than 100W witout the monitor on
[01:30] <bryce__> really, on linux I've never seen an appreciable difference with those huge cards.  I've seen tiny half-width cards that were perfectly suitable, at least for my usage
[01:30] <bryce__> all I need is two heads and 2D ;-)
[01:31] <chrisccoulson> i think i could make do with a much lower-spec card
[01:31] <kklimonda> bryce__, it's obvious that the only game you play is mahjongg ;)
[01:31] <bryce__> :-)
[01:31] <bryce__> mahjongg rocks
[01:32] <kklimonda> but on the other hand buying an expensive gpu and installing only linux isn't the smartest move..
[01:32] <bryce__> actually I did play a flash game (farmville) for a little while, but performance was bad.  Dunno if that was my hardware or just flash being slow though
[01:33] <chrisccoulson> is that the game on facebook?
[01:33] <kklimonda> bryce__, don't know why but flash is really slow on linux..
[01:33] <bryce__> yeah
[01:33] <kklimonda> it was that bad on Mac OS X too so maybe it's just Adobe sucks at porting..
[01:33] <chrisccoulson> one of my colleagues has done some neat little flash games
[01:33] <chrisccoulson> http://www.pembo.com/
[01:34] <chrisccoulson> under "flash stash"
[01:34] <chrisccoulson> well, not so much "games", but rather "interactive animations"
[01:34] <kklimonda> has he redesigned his page as a memento for geocities? ;)
[01:35] <chrisccoulson> flash is really CPU intensive on my machine
[01:36] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: ok will deal with the clutter-gtk upload, thanks for fixing the description.
[01:36] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson, but at least linux kernel supports 4096 CPUs ;)
[01:37] <bryce__> I'm running amd64, so I guess I'm lucky flash works at all ;-)
[01:37] <chrisccoulson> i'm running amd64 too
[01:37] <kklimonda> have amd64 version of flash made it to 9.10?
[01:38] <TheMuso> I have read a bit about flash not being nearly as good on OS X and Linux as it is on Windows, to the point that accessibility ingegration for mac or Linux hasn't been done either, whereas its usable with accessibility tools on Windows.
[01:38] <kklimonda> or are we still stuck with this wrapper that never really works? :)
[01:38] <bryce__> (I've been using a flash build kees packaged, not the stock flash)
[01:38] <TheMuso> For me at least, I use youtube in other ways. Its the only flash site I tend to visit.
[01:41] <kklimonda> that's kinda sad that the only decent usage of flash is to display movies..
[01:41] <kklimonda> and yet people are using it everywhere
[01:41] <TheMuso> Yeah. Hopefully the HTML5 video in browser stuff takes off.
[01:41] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i hope so too
[01:42] <bryce__> yeah flash video was the #1 must-have for my dad in getting linux
[01:42] <chrisccoulson> i don't have flash on android, and it's a real pain for some stuff
[01:42] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson, like what?
[01:43] <chrisccoulson> watching videos on the BBC News website
[01:44] <kklimonda> hmm, right - whenever I use browser in my android I'm someplace where the best connection I can hope for is EDGE so watching videos isn't high on my list :)
[01:45] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: the glutter-gtk package with your debdiff fails to find files that you indicated needed to be installed.
[01:46] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, they are already built, they only had to be added to the .install files
[01:47] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, you mean when you build it it doesn't find the files referenced in the .install?
[01:47] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: Yes, it doesn't find them. I think its a typo.
[01:49] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, rebuilding here...
[01:52] <robert_ancell> hmm, finds it for me
[01:52] <TheMuso> What are you using to build?
[01:52] <robert_ancell> debuild
[01:53] <TheMuso> Hrm ok.
[01:53] <TheMuso> Are you using a newer debdiff than whats on the bug?
[01:53] <robert_ancell> no
[01:54] <TheMuso> hrm ok
[01:54] <TheMuso> Trying again
[01:54] <TheMuso> this time, I am not building arch: all package
[01:54] <TheMuso> packages
[01:54] <robert_ancell> TheMuso,  can you try adding --enable-introspection=yes to DEB_CONFIGURE_EXTRA_FLAGS
[01:55] <TheMuso> dh_install -plibclutter-gtk-0.10-0
[01:55] <TheMuso> cp: cannot stat `./debian/tmp/usr/lib/girepository-1.0/': No such file or directory
[01:55] <TheMuso> ok adding
[01:58] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: I suggest you set up a build chroot environment such as pbuilder.
[01:58] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: No, still fails.
[01:58] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, I think it needs some more dependencies, will get pbuilder working again...
[01:59] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: I get this now.
[01:59] <TheMuso> configure: error: gobject-introspection-1.0 is not installed
[01:59] <TheMuso> make: *** [config.status] Error 1
[01:59] <TheMuso> dpkg-buildpackage: error: debian/rules build gave error exit status 2
[01:59] <robert_ancell> yeah, not sure how many dependencies I have to add, will check with pbuilder
[01:59] <TheMuso> ok
[03:05] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: Found the build dependencies needed. libgirepository1.0-dev, gobject-introspection-glib-2.0, gobject-introspection-freedesktop, gobject-introspection-repository
[03:05] <TheMuso> One of them may depend on the others, haven't checked yet.
[03:07] <TheMuso> Hrm no, they are all needed, none depend on each other.
[03:47] <chrisccoulson> anyone here have Yahoo IM?
[03:49] <azteech> chirsccoulson: yep
[03:49] <chrisccoulson> azteech - would you mind adding me (chrisccoulson@yahoo.co.uk), as I need to make sure the hardy pidgin SRU is working
[03:49] <chrisccoulson> and i don't normally use Yahoo
[03:50]  * TheMuso is on MSN, and jabber, and never uses either. :p
[03:50] <chrisccoulson> i don't normally use them either
[03:50] <chrisccoulson> i'm going to be so tired at work tomorrow :(
[03:50] <TheMuso> chrisccoulson: Yeah I was just thinking that you are up late. :)
[03:51] <chrisccoulson> i'm up again in 3 hours!
[03:51] <TheMuso> Thats crazy.
[03:51] <chrisccoulson> that will be a total of 7 hours sleep in 2 nights ;)
[03:51] <TheMuso> Yup, crazy.
[03:51] <chrisccoulson> i'm going to sleep well this weekend
[03:51] <TheMuso> I'll bet.
[03:51] <TheMuso> chrisccoulson: Since its an SRU, I am surprised you couldn't wait to do it.
[03:52] <azteech> done
[03:52] <azteech> but, says you aren't logged in
[03:52] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, that's odd
[03:53] <azteech> also sent you a message via it .... but not under azteech -
[03:54] <azteech> just sent you a private with the login name for yahoo
[03:55] <chrisccoulson> hmmm
[03:55] <azteech> now it just came back and said unable to add<EMAIL_ADDRESS>to server list
[03:56] <azteech> just got an authorization message. so that seems to work
[03:56] <chrisccoulson> i just got that too, but now i see you
[03:56] <chrisccoulson> i think it needs to be without the @yahoo.co.uk part
[03:57] <chrisccoulson> heh:)
[03:57] <chrisccoulson> that's working now
[03:57] <chrisccoulson> hardy users will be pleased now hopefully:)
[03:57] <azteech> yep, it is ... don't ask me the inside on that ...
[03:57] <azteech> :)
[03:57] <chrisccoulson> seeing as they've had no working yahoo in pidgin for several months now
[03:57] <chrisccoulson> whew
[03:57] <chrisccoulson> anyway, i must go to bed now
[03:58] <chrisccoulson> thanks!
[03:58] <chrisccoulson> 'night everyone!
[03:59] <azteech> actually, hardy had been working, if they updated directly from the pidgin all along with no problems at all using a work around I saw on the forums
[03:59] <chrisccoulson> which workaround was this?
[03:59] <chrisccoulson> using the default hardy client?
[03:59] <chrisccoulson> it's a completely new authentication mechanism for the newer API
[03:59] <azteech> will have to search for it, but basically had to do with an update from the pidgin site, not the one in the repo
[04:00] <chrisccoulson> ah, that makes sense ;)
[04:00] <azteech> yep
[04:00] <chrisccoulson> this is an update to the official hardy version which i just tested
[04:00] <azteech> kewl
[04:00] <chrisccoulson> by backporting the authentication changes to the old code base
[04:00] <azteech> then, yes, without having to go to the main site and update, they will be happy
[04:01] <chrisccoulson> yep!
[04:01] <azteech> congrats
[04:01] <chrisccoulson> thanks for helping me test it anyway
[04:01] <chrisccoulson> i must sleep now:)
[04:01] <azteech> you are welcome
[04:01] <azteech> nite bud
[07:20] <pitti> Good morning
[07:38] <didrocks> hello pitti
[08:27] <huats> morning
[08:54] <chrisccoulson> hello everyone
[08:58] <chrisccoulson> hey pitti - i'll have a hardy pidgin SRU ready later
[08:58] <chrisccoulson> complete with functioning yahoo!
[08:58]  * pitti hugs chrisccoulson, you rock
[08:59]  * chrisccoulson hugs pitti
[09:24] <pitti> I'm off for a bit, catching some fresh air and sun
[09:24] <pitti> lazy day today :)
[09:30] <chrisccoulson> pitti -were you looking at huats issue with a device partition not being detected correctly yesterday?
[09:31] <huats> chrisccoulson, he is :)
[09:31] <huats> thanks chrisccoulson for being interested
[09:31] <huats> chrisccoulson, you have all the information in the bug :)
[09:33] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i haven't checked the bug since yesterday. i just noticed someone reported bug 464411, which seems to be a similar type of issue (albeit, with a different filesystem type I think) - the device appears as "Unrecognised" in palimpsest
[11:56] <pitti> chrisccoulson: yeah, I had a followup question; blkid is fine, but it's not in udev for some reason
[14:03] <tgpraveen1> seb128: around? the problem that i had yesterday with nm and gnome keyring
[14:03] <tgpraveen1> i think it's gnome keyring (policykit??) as now after every time i boot my computer
[14:03] <tgpraveen1> and try to maunt my windows partition also it asks for password
[14:03] <tgpraveen1> anyone else saw this issue?
[14:08] <chrisccoulson> tgpraveen1 - gnome-keyring is nothing to do with policykit
[14:08] <chrisccoulson> when you mount an internal partition, you will be asked to authenticate using policykit (that is expected behaviour)
[14:09] <mac_v> chrisccoulson: hi... what are the criterion for the SRU? i'm rather trying to find out the exact reason for the firefox 3.5 not landing in jaunty
[14:10] <chrisccoulson> mac_v - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
[14:10] <mac_v> or rather  ,not made the default when installed in jaunty > Bug #464601
[14:10] <chrisccoulson> mac_v - it won't be made the default due to a limitation in how we specify the default applications
[14:11] <tgpraveen1> chrisccoulson: hmm is this behaviour new to karmic. because in jaunty it did not ask for authentication i think
[14:11] <mac_v> chrisccoulson: yeah exactly , i remember asac mentioning something about that :)
[14:11] <chrisccoulson> mac_v - we specify URI handlers in a set of gconf keys, and those are user configurable via gnome-default-applications
[14:11] <tgpraveen1> and if so what is the reason because acccessing a local partition does not seem dangerour or anything.
[14:11] <chrisccoulson> but the applications are hard-wired there
[14:12] <mac_v> ah , right
[14:12] <chrisccoulson> tgpraveen1 - the policy for mounting internal volumes is carried across from jaunty
[14:12] <tgpraveen1> also do u think there is a way to do like either dont ask permission while mounting ( always allow? )
[14:12] <chrisccoulson> so you would be prompted there too
[14:12] <chrisccoulson> tgpraveen1 - Policykit documentation?
[14:12] <chrisccoulson> or #ubuntu
[14:12] <mac_v> tgpraveen1: there is no way , to tell it not to prompt
[14:13] <tgpraveen1> chrisccoulson: i definetely didnt have that. i was upgrading from intrepid->jaunty
[14:13] <tgpraveen1> i didnt have it in jaunty
[14:13] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, well, i had it in jaunty, and so did everyone else
[14:13] <chrisccoulson> and that was the default policy
[14:13] <mac_v> tgpraveen1: that was hal , this is now policykit
[14:13] <tgpraveen1> and now that it does on karmic i feel like it is vistaish
[14:13] <chrisccoulson> mac_v - they both still used policykit ;)
[14:13] <tgpraveen1> mac_v: did u have the same behaviouyr in jaunty?
[14:14] <mac_v> chrisccoulson: wasnt hal able to control the automount?
[14:14] <mac_v> ie: not ask password everytime
[14:14] <chrisccoulson> mac_v - yes, mounting was done via HAL, but authorizations with Policykit
[14:14] <chrisccoulson> so you still had to authenticate in order to mount internal volumes
[14:15] <chrisccoulson> that behaviour hasn't changed since jaunty
[14:16] <mac_v> chrisccoulson: in jaunty , i could set the authorizations to *not* prompt for password on every mount , pitti mentioned that that feature is not available now
[14:16] <mac_v> let me get you the bug #
[14:16] <chrisccoulson> mac_v - the feature is available, but just not exposed through the UI
[14:16] <chrisccoulson> policykit is still configurable
[14:17] <mac_v> chrisccoulson: ah , yeah , thats it , no UI
[14:17] <mac_v> tgpraveen1: i was told to look into man policykit , but i was too lazy ;p
[14:18] <chrisccoulson> man pklocalauthority is what you want
[14:18] <mac_v> tgpraveen1: or that to be exact^
[14:19] <chrisccoulson> does anyone here have a Yahoo IM account, and can message me, so I can test a Pidgin update one last time?
[14:20] <tgpraveen1> chrisccoulson: id
[14:20] <chrisccoulson> chrisccoulson ;)
[14:20] <mac_v> chrisccoulson: heh , so many volunteers :)
[14:21] <pitti> chrisccoulson: I don't, but I assume I can create one easily?
[14:21] <chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, it's pretty easy to create one
[14:22] <chrisccoulson> i ended up creating one just for testing - i don't have any yahoo friends though ;)
[14:22] <pitti> ok, doesn't work through pidgin; /me looks on yahoo.com
[14:23] <chrisccoulson> the update seems to be working ok though :)
[14:24] <mac_v> hehe , the empathy crash with yahoo , seems not happening ;)
[14:24] <chrisccoulson> i think my mouse is dying
[14:26] <kenvandine> mac_v, great!
[14:27] <mac_v> chrisccoulson: kenvandine: Bug #423521 , was the one... i hadnt opened empathy since then ;)
[14:27] <tgpraveen1> mac_v: chrisccoulson so um finally is there a bug or not for allowing auto mount of local hdds ie better ui ?
[14:27] <tgpraveen1> or do i file one
[14:27] <chrisccoulson> tgpraveen1 - i'm not sure what you're asking? For me, I click on a volume, authenticate, and the volume is mounted
[14:27] <chrisccoulson> i don't know what you want to change
[14:28] <pitti> chrisccoulson: meh, the account creation pages' "Create Account" button doesn't work; hmpf
[14:28] <chrisccoulson> pitti - in firefox?
[14:28] <pitti> yes
[14:28] <chrisccoulson> tgpraveen1 - if you want auto-mounting of local volumes, then that is what /etc/fstab is for ;)
[14:28] <chrisccoulson> pitti - that's strange. so you can't test the pidgin update then ;)
[14:29] <mac_v> chrisccoulson: i think what tgpraveen1 wants is for the fs to not auto mount and to not prompt for every mount
[14:29] <mac_v> well i want that too ;)
[14:29] <tgpraveen1> yeah because its a ntfs windwos partition
[14:30] <mac_v> tgpraveen1: i think you need to file a bug for that.. i dont think there is one yet , or pitti / chrisccoulson  might know bug# ;)
[14:30] <pitti> mac_v: it's not a bug
[14:30] <pitti> it's meant to behave like that
[14:30] <chrisccoulson> there's no bug number, because i'm not sure there's a bug
[14:30] <chrisccoulson> right, what pitti said :)
[14:31] <chrisccoulson> if you want autmounting, then use /etc/fstab. if you want to allow users to mount/unmount volumes from the file manager with no authentication, then your local policy needs adjusting
[14:31] <mac_v> pitti: yup , not a bug , but a feature that is missing , now , previously the authorizations allowed to not prompt for every mount and there was a gui , but now no UI
[14:31] <pitti> chrisccoulson: did you use another browser?
[14:32]  * tgpraveen1 thinks this is going to cause a lot of inconvenience and annoyance
[14:32] <chrisccoulson> pitti - i used firefox
[14:33] <pitti> hm; it leads me to https://edit.europe.yahoo.com/config/eval_register?.intl=de&.pd=_ver%253D0%2526c%253D%2526ivt%253D%2526sg%253D&new=1&.done=http%3A//de.yahoo.com&.src=&.v=0&.u=6a7or1h5eltmv&partner=&.partner=&pkg=&stepid=&.p=&promo=&.last=
[14:33] <pitti> chrisccoulson: ^ does that look like the same page as you used?
[14:34] <chrisccoulson> pitti - that looks like the page I see
[14:34] <chrisccoulson> if i click the button without filling anything in, then it seems to work (i get lots of warnings about missing information)
[14:35] <fta> could someone please have a look at bug 460710?
[14:35] <pitti> chrisccoulson: yes, if I fill it out, it just sends me to the top of that page
[14:35] <pitti> chrisccoulson: hm, I'll try again
[14:37] <pitti> chrisccoulson: ah, I think it didn't like my password copy/paste
[14:37] <pitti> worked now
[14:37] <chrisccoulson> excellent :)
[14:38] <pitti> login failed in empathy, though
[14:38]  * pitti checks for a confirmation mail
[14:39] <mac_v> fta: i'm not having any problems with pop3 accounts, so it might be IMAP related
[14:40] <fta> mac_v, i'm using imap but the place it fails seems to be unrelated, it's around murrine & cairo
[14:40] <pitti> chrisccoulson: hrmpf; I click the "verify email" link, and it complains that I'm logged in with another account; it's the very same I just created
[14:41] <chrisccoulson> heh, that's quite strange!
[14:41] <chrisccoulson> i can see why i don't use yahoo now ;)
[14:41] <fta> mac_v, cairo leaks 2GB in 4 blocks in a few seconds
[14:46] <mac_v> fta: yeah , quite odd though , not sure how the pop or imap is causing this :/   , btw , is it only for the .ppt and .doc? hmm , i havent received such attachments in evolution , [/me uses thunderbird and evolution]
[14:47] <pitti> chrisccoulson: so, the web IM doesn't work with swfdec, and empathy refuses to connect
[14:48] <tgpraveen1> pitti: whats the error with empathy?
[14:48] <pitti> tgpraveen1: "legitimation failed"
[14:48] <tgpraveen1> in the username field in empathy put only username (no @yahoo)
[14:48] <pitti> oh
[14:48] <fta> mac_v, imho, the attachment type doesn't really matter, it's most probably its/their size, the bug is in the progress bar drawn by murrine (in cairo), it's a UI bug
[14:48] <pitti> tgpraveen1: that was it, thanks
[14:49] <chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, the username bit had me fooled last night
[14:49] <pitti> chrisccoulson: I'm<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[14:49] <mac_v> fta: could you send me such an attachment? i could check
[14:49] <fta> mac_v, hm, i can't, it's my pro mbox, contracts & bills and stuff
[14:50] <mac_v> ;)  ok
[15:00] <mac_v> pitti: would there be a UI to select the authorizations as before?
[15:00] <jcastro> kenvandine: your latest PPA empathy is solid for me
[15:01] <pitti> jcastro: it's in -proposed now, too; testing that one is appreciated
[15:01] <kenvandine> jcastro, woot
[15:01] <pitti> mac_v: not right now, not sure whether David plans something
[15:01] <pitti> hey kenvandine
[15:01] <jcastro> pitti: yeah I've been pounding on it since yesterday and it would have crashed by now
[15:01] <kenvandine> hey pitti
[15:02] <kenvandine> jcastro, i really think i have tracked down all the leaks
[15:02] <pitti> solid for me as well
[15:02] <kenvandine> at least ones we create :)
[15:02] <mac_v> yup , /me running the proposed too , empathy looks good :)
[15:03] <mac_v> pitti: ah , ok , thanks so any bug regarding that would need to be filed upstream , in policykit?
[15:04] <pitti> mac_v: policykit-gnome, yes; I don't think we'll have time to create one ourselves
[15:04] <mac_v> :) yeah
[15:05] <mac_v> tgpraveen1: ^ filing one upstream?
[15:23] <chrisccoulson> pitti - i've attached a debdiff to bug 389322 now
[15:23] <chrisccoulson> it's a similar size to the Jaunty patch
[15:23] <pitti> thanks; sponsoring
[15:24] <chrisccoulson> cool, thanks
[15:31] <chrisccoulson> time for some ubuntu-boot crack i think
[15:32] <pitti> chrisccoulson: ureadahead is great
[15:33] <pitti> 57 s -> 25 s
[15:33] <chrisccoulson> i noticed the update there, but i've been aprehensive about updating until now, because my desktop has had a lot of use this week
[15:34] <chrisccoulson> but now i don't have anything particularly urgent or important to do ;)
[15:34] <chrisccoulson> so i can afford a little bit of down time if it goes wrong ;)
[15:38] <tgpraveen> hmm the policykit issue with Nm is becoming clearer, so when i make a new connection and then connect the first time, nm says that it wants to access the keyring and i click always allow.
[15:39] <tgpraveen> but after that say after i restart then nm sometimes asks me again that it wants to access and that time i have only allow and deny. even this is ok.
[15:39] <tgpraveen> but after that most of the times nm doesnt ask me at all. and is not able to gain access to the keyring and is not able to connect
[15:39] <tgpraveen> asac: ^^?
[15:40] <tgpraveen> chrisccoulson: is there any problem if i install policykit.
[15:40] <tgpraveen> i dont mind the security risk if all the rest of my system works
[15:40] <tgpraveen> s/install/uninstall
[15:40] <pedro_> pitti, may you have a look later to bug 448153 ? basically the metadata is lost after upgrading from 9.04 to 9.10 because of the lack of nautilus-convert-metadata binary in our package
[15:40] <tgpraveen> or is gnome keyring/seahorse?
[15:40] <chrisccoulson> tgpraveen - yes, it will break everything that uses it for querying authorization
[15:41] <tgpraveen> :-(
[15:41] <tgpraveen> chrisccoulson:  and do u have any idea or advice for my situation
[15:41] <chrisccoulson> so, uninstall if you wish, but expect everything to stop working (ie, shutting down / rebooting / connecting to networks etc)
[15:41] <chrisccoulson> tgpraveen - yes, adjust your policies locally to suit your needs
[15:41] <chrisccoulson> by reading the documentation ;)
[15:42] <tgpraveen> um any gui method exists?
[15:42]  * tgpraveen crosses fingers
[15:42] <chrisccoulson> but if you just want the disk to be automounted, then put it in fstab instead
[15:42] <chrisccoulson> no, there is no UI for adjusting policies anymore, and there probably won't be one, unless someone develops an interest to write one
[15:43] <pitti> pedro_: oh, we just need to install that? good catch, thanks
[15:43] <tgpraveen> chrisccoulson: no, not the disk one now. The NM one ^^
[15:45] <pedro_> pitti, for new upgrades yes, but if you upgraded and executed nautilus you're a bit screw, the workaround is to delete the .nautilus/metafiles/migrated_to_gvfs , but yeah in both cases you need the binary
[15:45] <chrisccoulson> tgpraveen - if you're asked for a password to unlock your keyring when connecting to wireless networks etc, then that is a local config issue
[15:45] <chrisccoulson> (ie, your keyring password doesn't match your login password)
[15:46] <chrisccoulson> by default, the 2 will match, and the keyring unlocks on log in
[15:46] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, something in my user config is breaking my mouse :-/
[15:46] <tgpraveen> chrisccoulson: i have a 3g usb modem. and i dont think its a config issue. this is a fresh install of karmic,fully updated. and i tried deleting and recreating the connection in nm many times.
[15:47] <tgpraveen> and so entered the password many times
[15:47] <tgpraveen> it connects first time after a new connection is created
[15:47] <chrisccoulson> i don't know then. it doesn't seem like you're sure which password dialog you're seeing
[15:47] <tgpraveen> then after restarts causes problems
[15:47] <chrisccoulson> perhaps you could show me a screenshot
[15:48] <chrisccoulson> ah, compiz is breaking my mouse
[15:48] <chrisccoulson> weird
[15:48] <tgpraveen> chrisccoulson: hmm ok. will ping u next time with the ss
[15:56] <tgpraveen1> chrisccoulson: restarted and and tried to connect and got this when it tried to connect
[15:56] <tgpraveen1> http://bayimg.com/aAEffaACK
[15:56] <tgpraveen1> i entered it and it successfully
[15:57] <chrisccoulson> so that's for the keyring
[15:57] <chrisccoulson> that will only occur under 2 conditions:
[15:57] <chrisccoulson> 1) you're using auto-login
[15:57] <chrisccoulson> 2) your login password is different from your keyring password
[15:58] <tgpraveen1> connected. another bug that i stumbled into is that if i stat my computer with the usb modem connected, then nm doesnt autodetect it. ie i have to remove modem and then resinsert then only nm sees it
[15:58] <tgpraveen1> asac: ^^
[15:58] <tgpraveen1> chrisccoulson: yes i am on autologin
[15:58] <chrisccoulson> that is why then
[15:58] <tgpraveen1> but my password and gnome pasword is same. .
[15:58] <chrisccoulson> there is currently no way around that
[15:58] <chrisccoulson> if you're using auto-login, then there is no password to unwrap the keyring
[15:58] <tgpraveen1> well again in jaunty it  used to connect automatically without asking this from me every ** time
[15:59] <tgpraveen1> again a change?
[15:59] <chrisccoulson> this behaviour is not new. there's a known bug for this that has been around for ages
[15:59] <chrisccoulson> but it's difficult (almost impossible) to solve
[16:00]  * tgpraveen1 wonders why i didnt run into any of this in jaunty.
[16:00] <chrisccoulson> did you use auto login in jaunty too?
[16:01] <tgpraveen1> maybe because of upgrading from hardy->intrepid-> jaunty vs karmic fresh install
[16:01] <tgpraveen1> chrisccoulson: yes
[16:01] <chrisccoulson> i don't know why you didn't experience it then, but this behaviour has existed for users using auto login for several releases now, and isn't a new issue
[16:02] <chrisccoulson> but there's no way around that. you can't unlock the keyring without supplying a password, otherwise it is no better than storing all your passwords in plaintext
[16:03] <tgpraveen1> chrisccoulson: well they are stored in plain sight anyway if not in plaintext. just go to accessories_> passwords and even with auto login
[16:04] <tgpraveen1> i can see all the passwords . there is no point of this.
[16:04] <chrisccoulson> right, they're only visible once the keyring has been unlocked, by displaying a passphrase
[16:04] <chrisccoulson> the secrets are encrypted on the disk, and are unlocked on login by using your login passphrase
[16:05] <chrisccoulson> and the keyring is locked again when you lock the screen, or log out
[16:05] <chrisccoulson> s/by displaying/by providing
[16:05] <chrisccoulson> d'oh
[16:08] <tgpraveen1> well i just now tried to access the details for an account in passwords and encryptions which wasnt unlocked and all it did was again throw the dialog of it wants to access
[16:08] <tgpraveen1> and allow , deny, always allow
[16:08] <tgpraveen1> no password asked
[16:08] <chrisccoulson> then it was already unlocked
[16:08] <chrisccoulson> trust me, if it's locked, it asks for a password
[16:08] <mac_v> tgpraveen1: did you set the connection to "Available to all users" ?
[16:09] <chrisccoulson> in fact, if it is locked, you can't even list the secrets that are available, let alone view the contents of them
[16:09] <tgpraveen1> mac_v: tried. didnt help. and i have a feeling it actually causes mnore problems
[16:09] <chrisccoulson> anyway, the behaviour you're seeing is normal with auto-login, and there is currently no way around it
[16:09] <mac_v> tgpraveen1: actually , when i set the available to all users , i dont get prompted for the keyring psswrd
[16:10] <mac_v> and i auto login , so by the time my session starts ,the connection is already on
[16:12] <tgpraveen> mac_v: now after u suggested, i again tried available to all users, after taht i got instantly disconnected , reconnecting didnt work ( it want able to ask me for authorization i think)
[16:12] <mac_v> oh , and i think that the first time i was asked the " allow , deny, always allow" , where i seleted always allow
[16:12] <mac_v> tgpraveen: yes , that happens when you select the option , it works on the next boot
[16:12] <mac_v> well thats how it does for me ;)
[16:12] <tgpraveen> then i tried to edit the account, so as to remove available to all users. now i was asked password to edit also, and upon entering password at this dialog it said i dont have enough priveleges
[16:12] <tgpraveen> to edit
[16:12] <tgpraveen> then i tried to delete
[16:13] <tgpraveen> for which i was again asked apssword and then it successfully deleted and then again i made a new connection
[16:13] <tgpraveen> mac_v: i seleected always allow also
[16:13] <tgpraveen> doesnt work
[16:14] <mac_v> heh , then i must be lucky ;p
[16:14]  * tgpraveen wonders why LP doesnt have any bugs on this.
[16:15] <tgpraveen> hmm now again let me try ur method of available to all and restarting computer
[16:15] <mac_v> tgpraveen: also make sure you have the connect automatically checked
[16:22] <tgpraveen12> mac_v: tried ur solution completely along with restartinng no go
[16:22]  * mac_v never been a lucky one \o/ ... ;p
[16:23] <tgpraveen12> do u use a usb modem?
[16:23] <tgpraveen12> maybe it is specific to it only
[16:24] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, pitti - is it normal that ureadahead holds up the boot process for 12 seconds?
[16:24] <mac_v> tgpraveen:  nope , but the nm doesnt ask for wireless connection
[16:24] <pitti> chrisccoulson: yes, it's supposed to do that
[16:24] <mac_v> for me
[16:25] <chrisccoulson> there seems to be a burst of disk activity, and then 10 seconds of IO wait with no disk activity
[16:25] <pitti> chrisccoulson: running things in parallel would just cause disk trashing and be slower than serial access (for rotary disks)
[16:25] <chrisccoulson> ah, yeah, i have stone-age rotary disks
[16:25] <chrisccoulson> but my boot time increased by about 8 seconds with ureadahead ;)
[16:25] <pitti> chrisccoulson: for me it looks like this: http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/bootcharts/karmic-ureadahead.png
[16:25] <pitti> chrisccoulson: ugh
[16:26] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i was getting 22 seconds to the greeter before, and now it is over 30
[16:26] <pitti> chrisccoulson: I have ureadahead reading like mad for 10 seconds, and virtually no I/O afterwards any more
[16:26] <pitti> chrisccoulson: tell Keybuk :)
[16:26] <pitti> chrisccoulson: if it's any consolation, sreadahead increases boot time by 12 seconds for me (compared to no readahead)..
[16:27] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i have virtually no disk IO after ureadahead has finished too
[16:27] <Keybuk> chrisccoulson: bootchart?
[16:27] <chrisccoulson> Keybuk - one second, i'm just making sure that i'm looking at the right bits first ;)
[16:28] <Keybuk> also ureadahead --dump in a pastebin plz
[16:29] <chrisccoulson> ok, i'm looking at the wrong reference points on my 2 bootcharts for comparing where GDM appears
[16:29] <chrisccoulson> and they're both about the same
[16:32] <Keybuk> I'd still like to see the charts
[16:32] <Keybuk> both with sreadahead and ureadahead
[16:33] <chrisccoulson> Keybuk - where would you like me to host them?
[16:33] <tgpraveen> hmm now the strangest of things happens i install wicd and networkmanager got uninstalled automatically
[16:33] <Keybuk> chrisccoulson: anywhere I can grab them ;)
[16:39] <chrisccoulson> Keybuk - http://people.ubuntu.com/~chrisccoulson/
[16:39] <chrisccoulson> i had no idea i could do that ;)
[16:40] <Keybuk> chrisccoulson: from the chart, it looks like when you profiled, you didn't login in time
[16:41] <Keybuk> so it hasn't profiled your desktop session
[16:41] <Keybuk> if you removed /var/lib/ureadahead/pack and rebooted
[16:41] <Keybuk> logging in quickly
[16:41] <Keybuk> you might get better results
[16:41] <chrisccoulson> ah, how long does it give me to log in?
[16:41] <Keybuk> only 30s or so
[16:41] <Keybuk> you can tweak /etc/init/ureadahead.conf (line at the bottom)
[16:41] <chrisccoulson> i'll try it again then. that will only optimise one session though right?
[16:42] <chrisccoulson> ie, it will speed it up for me
[16:42] <chrisccoulson> but not for someone else who logs in
[16:42] <Keybuk> right
[16:43] <jcastro> Keybuk: is it worth trying ureadahead on my ssd drive or is work for spinning disks?
[16:43] <Keybuk> jcastro: ssd should give slightly better results than sreadahead
[16:43] <Keybuk> it makes better traces
[17:01] <pitti> good night everyone, have a good weekend
[17:13] <Keybuk> jcastro: but it may be like quarter to half a second
[17:13] <Keybuk> there's not much else to do with ssd ;)  I/O is not a major problem for them
[17:14] <jcastro> yeah, heh
[18:14] <crevette> hi
[18:15] <crevette> is there problem with archive servers since yesterday? overload?
[18:17] <chrisccoulson> crevette - karmic release ;)
[18:18] <chrisccoulson> it will be slow for a few days
[18:18] <chrisccoulson> i would suggest trying a different mirror
[18:18] <crevette> okay thanks
[18:18] <crevette> I was on fr mirror also but same issue :)
[18:18] <chrisccoulson> crevette - i couldn't even connect to the main archive at all yesterday, or the main UK mirror
[18:19] <crevette> I would interest to see throughput bandwith :)
[18:19] <chrisccoulson> crevette - http://ubuntu.retrosnub.co.uk was fast for me yesterday
[18:19] <crevette> the second try was the right one
[18:20] <crevette> but at work I was unable to reach archives main and fr
[18:20] <chrisccoulson> yeah, it's pretty slow right now
[18:37] <chrisccoulson> urgh, gconfd takes 4 seconds to load on my desktop
[18:39] <crevette> chrisccoulson, dconf ftw ?
[18:40] <chrisccoulson> indeed:)
[18:40] <chrisccoulson> 4 seconds is an age ;)
[18:41] <crevette> apt-cache show dconf
[18:41] <crevette> hmm, so nice, two software will share the same name
[18:42] <chrisccoulson> heh, i don't know how we'll work around that
[18:42] <chrisccoulson> i'm not sure what the existing dconf package is, or what it does
[18:42] <crevette> noone cares about legcay dconf, let drop it :)
[18:43] <crevette> apparently "it collects data the hardware and software configuration of a system"
[18:43] <chrisccoulson> gaaarrrggghh. a big mouse-shaped hole is going to appear in my monitor soon
[18:43] <crevette> from my loosy translation fr->en
[18:43] <chrisccoulson> that looks about right
[19:11] <albasheers> after installing karmic kola , gnome-disk-utility is saying hard drive is having bad sector but when i re installed ubuntu 9.10  it is not giving me any error, this error is only coming in karmic cola
[19:27]  * mac_v wonders how karmic *cola* tastes ;p
[21:37] <jbarnes> ok finally filed a bug on the hplip/hpijs issue I was seeing
[21:37] <jbarnes> sucks to not be able to use my photosmart7760 to its fullest
[21:43] <chrisccoulson> mac_v - you never tasted karmic cola?
[21:48] <mac_v> chrisccoulson: there is really something called that o.0   /me never knew ;)
[21:49] <mac_v> Amaranth: around?
[21:49] <mac_v> * debian/patches/029_default_options:
[21:49] <mac_v>     - turn off unredirect_fullscreen_windows by default again
[21:50] <Amaranth> yeah?
[21:50] <mac_v> is this ^ still off by default?
[21:50] <Amaranth> yep
[21:50] <mac_v> any bug# for that?
[21:50] <Amaranth> about a dozen of them, iirc
[21:50] <mac_v> Amaranth: i meant any bug asking for that to be turned off ? Bug #451907
[21:52] <Amaranth> mac_v: bug 153204
[21:55] <Amaranth> that one settings change (and the patch we had to apply to be able to do it) is probably the single biggest improvement for compiz
[21:55] <mac_v> Amaranth: hmm , so the 451907 is a dupe of the compiz bug?  i was a bit confused , since the user had asked for the setting to be changed in the default but the master bug is for a bug... so what would be the best way ? dup the new papercut bug to the master bug and add the papercut task to the master?
[21:55] <Amaranth> mac_v: We fixed 153204 by turning that setting off
[21:56] <Amaranth> so it is a dupe, yes
[21:56] <chrisccoulson> does anyone here use gwibber?
[21:56] <mac_v> yup , i got that  , just confirming :)
[22:02] <mac_v> Amaranth: thanks :)
[22:03] <mac_v> heh , i was searching for that master bug for nearly 15mins ;)
[22:05] <mac_v> chrisccoulson: i'm planning to use gwibber... any testing needed?
[22:05] <chrisccoulson> i was just wondering if anyone knew how to reply to messages
[22:06] <chrisccoulson> i can't see a text entry box anywhere
[22:06] <mac_v> oh , i wouldnt know :)
[22:06] <mac_v> *yet*
[22:06] <chrisccoulson> maybe i'm just stupid:(
[22:22] <mac_v> chrisccoulson: are you using for twitter? i can see the entry box when i clikc the reply button
[22:22] <mac_v> click*
[22:44] <Amaranth> chrisccoulson: there is a slider thing on the bottom you have to pull up
[22:44] <Amaranth> it seems to start with no size
[22:48] <chrisccoulson> mac_v - i'm using Facebook
[22:48] <chrisccoulson> Amaranth - i see a combo box at the bottom ("Sending message from:"), with a cross next to it
[22:48] <chrisccoulson> when i click that, a text entry box appears
[22:49] <chrisccoulson> that's weird ;)
[22:49] <chrisccoulson> but it doesn't actually reply to comments. it just adds my comment to my wall, on its own
[23:31] <Amaranth> chrisccoulson: oh, sounds like they changed the UI


[09:20] <rmg51> Morning
[09:21] <jackson> morning rmg51
[09:24]  * jackson actually good whatever    I haven't slept in 3 days due to my medications interfering with my circadian rhythm
[12:20] <teddy-dbear> Morning peoples, critters and everything else
[15:01] <ChinnoDog> morning


[00:19] <Quintin> hey, how do I do a textmode install from the regular install CD?
[00:52] <aetherian> uh
[00:52] <Quintin> the average IQ of ubuntu community makes me want to go all murder suicide
[00:52] <Quintin> seriously
[00:53] <aetherian> yeah, me too
[00:53] <aetherian> now leave before I build up enough rage to do it
[00:53]  * Quintin loads his guns
[00:54] <Quintin> trying to install this lubuntu jazz on mom's laptop... GUI isn't responsive though :/
[00:54] <Quintin> probably put it on her bf's laptop too... I put ubuntu 10.10 on it last week, but it's very slow
[00:55] <aetherian> (actually, lubuntu is much more responsive than ubuntu, and kubuntu)
[00:55] <aetherian> dunno about xubuntu
[00:55] <aetherian> but I gotta go
[00:55] <aetherian> midterms tonight :D
[00:55] <Quintin> I'm talking about the install CD :P
[00:55] <aetherian> use a usb then :)
[00:55] <Quintin> install over usb 1.1?  no thnx :P
[00:59] <Quintin> installer is not starting for me
[01:00] <Quintin> w.t.f.
[01:04] <chuckbartowski> hi guys i got a quick hopefully easy question, in lubuntu's syle start menu is it possible to add shortcuts to it?
[01:04] <chuckbartowski> sorry add shortcuts inside it
[01:07] <Quintin> http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=lxde+menu+config  o look :P
[01:10] <chuckbartowski> lol cheers was just having a look before you posted :)
[01:11] <chuckbartowski> too much to do for a tired head, so for now i think i will just launch it from terminal lol its easier
[01:11] <Quintin> WHY IS MY UBIQUITY NOT WORKING?   Does anyone happen to know whether Lubuntu releases come with any extra PPAs enabled, or is all of Lubuntu in Ubuntu's repositories?
[01:35] <Quintin> hmm... I don't particularly like you, so I will refrain from answering your question.  :)
[01:41] <Semitones> good question rww
[01:41] <Semitones> I have a live usb so presumably I could check for you
[01:42] <Semitones> hold on, booting up meh laptop
[01:42] <rww> Semitones: thanks :)
[01:44] <Semitones> rww, haha i can't find my keys, hold on
[02:06] <Semitones> rww, yes it does enable the lubuntu ppa by default in 10.10
[02:07] <rww> Semitones: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop/+archive/ppa ?
[02:07] <Semitones> lol darn I just shutdown
[02:07] <rww> that's fine, I care more about yes/no than which one specifically it is. Thanks for your help :)
[02:08] <Semitones> sure -- that doesn't look quite right
[02:08] <Semitones> I don't remember any tildes
[02:08] <Semitones> or addition signs
[02:10] <szczur> rww, lubuntu cd is shipped with that ppa enabled
[02:10] <rww> szczur: thank you
[09:08] <babar_> Hi, anyone there?
[09:09] <babar_> I have a question, anyone here to answer?
[09:10] <bioterror> !ask | babar_
[09:10] <bioterror> where's bot!
[09:10] <bioterror> but shot
[09:10] <bioterror> shoot
[09:11] <babar_> I want to install lubuntu desktop aside by ubuntu+kubuntu desktop
[09:11] <babar_> but when I give the command sudo apt-get install lubuntu-desktop
[09:12] <babar_> it shows The following packages will be REMOVED:
[09:12] <babar_>   kubuntu-desktop libpam-ck-connector ubuntu-desktop
[09:16] <bioterror> never saw a question
[14:56] <GaryD> Hey all. How can I "turn off" ttys I don't want to use?
[15:01] <MrChrisDruif> Hai GaryD :) I don't know....never thought about it tbh
[15:03] <GaryD> I just found something. about to restart. commenting out the start line in /etc/init/tty4.conf, tty5.conf, and tty6.conf.
[15:04] <GaryD> my reference - http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1627548
[15:16] <craigbass1976> I've asked this before, but haven't gotten an answer...  What's the best way to take a screenshot?  LXDE doesn't seem to recognize the print screen button, either alone or with the Alt key.  Firing up GIMP to take a simple screenshot is a bit much.  I never thought I'd say it, but Windows does this better, and I hate windows...
[15:19] <craigbass1976> http://wiki.lxde.org/en/How_to_make_screenshots  Is this the best way?
[15:22] <MrChrisDruif> Hai craigbass1976
[15:23] <craigbass1976> MrChrisDruif, hey
[15:25] <MrChrisDruif> I just took a look, and besides noting this to the mailinglist/bugtracker, it's a very lightweight solution. An other option would be to install Shutter
[15:25] <MrChrisDruif> I don't know how lightweight shutter is
[15:26] <MrChrisDruif> Your solution can only make a screenshot in .png, a good format, but not always...
[15:28] <craigbass1976> MrChrisDruif, Gah...  I just looked in my home directory and found a bunch of screenshots.  Something was taking them, but just saving them out to files instead of to the clipboard.  WHat was doing that?
[15:28] <MrChrisDruif> And your could mod the script to put it on other locations then you desktop ofc
[15:28] <craigbass1976> .png is fine
[15:31] <MrChrisDruif> I would've thought Lubuntu solved this already. I *think* they've added a small program to save the screenshots :)
[15:32] <craigbass1976> MrChrisDruif, yes, regular print screen alone shoots the screen and saves a datastamp-as-title png in /home/me.    Knowing it was saving files in my damned home directory helps a little; I just never thought that's how things would go down...
[20:22] <akernan> Anybody here help me with a conky issue?
[20:24] <bioterror> what kind of issue
[20:24] <akernan> conky wireless variables will not work as user but they do as sudo
[20:25] <akernan> I tried #conky channel but no one was there
[20:25] <bioterror> http://paste.ubuntu.com/585028/ you mean something like that?
[20:26] <akernan> brb
[20:37] <akernan> sorry about that, back now
[20:44] <akernan> everything works except the wireless variables, that's the  problem I trying to figure out
[20:54] <aetherian> ooh
[20:54] <aetherian> oh
[20:54] <aetherian> heh
[20:54] <akernan> any ideas?
[20:54] <aetherian> when you said conky
[20:54] <aetherian> I thought you meant like weird
[20:55] <akernan> :-)....no problem with syntax, just wireless variables not working
[20:58] <akernan> here's the conky I have now, just wanting to add wireless signal...http://conky-pitstop.wdfiles.com/local--files/g-2011-i/11-1-akernan-1.jpg
[21:07] <akernan> any more ideas?
[21:17] <aetherian> uh
[21:17] <aetherian> seems wonky
[21:17] <aetherian> *badu-
[21:21] <kosaidpo|> hello guys
[21:22] <akernan> yea, it's weird...I know I'm not the only one with this problem
[21:22] <akernan> hey
[21:22] <kosaidpo|> my pidgin is bein lame n the window doesnt pop up when i got a msg even i have this set up
[21:22] <kosaidpo|> any idea wht
[21:23] <Unit193> kosaidpo|: Are you using the Pidgin PPA?
[21:23] <kosaidpo|> UndiFineD: no
[21:23] <kosaidpo|> is there any easy way to check via cmmd line ?
[21:24] <UndiFineD> :)
[21:24] <Unit193> kosaidpo|: pidgin -v
[21:24] <kosaidpo|> Unit193: noo as in if im using the pidgin ppa : ]
[21:25] <Unit193> If you didn't add it, you shouldn't have the PPA
[21:25] <kosaidpo|> Unit193: Pidgin 2.7.3 (libpurple 2.7.3)
[21:26] <Unit193> kosaidpo|: http://pidgin.im/download/ubuntu <-- for newist
[21:27] <kosaidpo|> Unit193: i didnt get you srry
[21:28] <kosaidpo|> Unit193: okies but me this feature was working for me b4
[21:28] <kosaidpo|> well ill update n see even it seems its not the right solu
[21:36] <kosaidpo|> Unit193: its okay i got my feature back but is there anythin exciting in the updates
[21:36] <kosaidpo|> cus ifeel lazy to update my net speed is slow n it ll slow down evythin :P
[21:42] <Unit193> kosaidpo|: Do you use MSN?
[21:44] <Unit193> kosaidpo|: See anything you need/want? http://developer.pidgin.im/wiki/ChangeLog
[21:45] <MrChrisDruif> Pidgin?
[21:45] <Unit193> MrChrisDruif: Yeah
[21:46] <MrChrisDruif> Awesome :)
[21:46] <Unit193> Finch? ;)
[21:46] <MrChrisDruif> When you install Pidgin, also install msn-pecan :P
[21:46] <MrChrisDruif> Finch?
[21:46] <Unit193> MrChrisDruif: Terminal frontend (looks kinda like pidgin)
[21:46] <MrChrisDruif> Alright...
[21:47] <Unit193> Works great in screen
[21:51] <kosaidpo|> Unit193: okies thanks
[23:56] <kristian_> hi all
[23:57] <kristian_> is there a slim chance that Lubuntu would give my prone-to-overheating box another year or two?
[23:59] <aetherian> um
[23:59] <aetherian> what specs would you say it has


[07:22] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 22.04 - amd64 - amd64 built.
[07:47] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 22.04 - amd64 - amd64 built.
[08:02] <JackFrost> bluesabre, knome: I think we need a release wallpaper, no?
[08:18] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 22.04 - amd64 - amd64 built.
[12:50] <bluesabre> JackFrost: yes indeedy
[12:50] <bluesabre> Quite a few in fact...
[12:51] <bluesabre> knome: It looks like it should be dead simple to spin up a new wallpaper contest. Should we just go ahead and do it?
[13:29] <xu-contribute43w> Hi! I was just looking at Xubuntu to download the 22.04 ISO - I am just a user and not inolved in anything - XFCE gets out of my way beautifully for years. Thanks first!
[13:30] <xu-contribute43w> BUT  checking the site I got the feeling that XFCE is dead - no calendar items, generally many deadends on the website - so I would like to ask:
[13:31] <xu-contribute43w> is this project still alive?
[13:35] <Maik> xu-contribute43w: both xubuntu and xfce are alive
[13:35] <xu-contribute43w> Asking because I had hope that 22.04 will fix some annoyances like high cpu power usage of xorg with a  second display , network not working after wakeup from suspend, unability to cleanly unmount sdcards - this kind of very basic hardware problems. I still love XFCE minimalism, but after some time with 20.04 I really would like to enjoy a fully
[13:35] <xu-contribute43w> working computer without paying "Linux Tax" - so wanted to try 22.04 if it is any better.
[13:36] <Maik> i find this the wrong channel to ask in because it's a developers channel, not a support channel
[13:37] <xu-contribute43w> Thanks for the answer - will try 22.04 iso and try to report problems. Thanks for our engegement! I am so very much hoping for an actually working XFCE that wold not make me feel so underdoggish.
[13:38] <xu-contribute43w> No  this is the right channel to ask, because you should note that your website makes users feel that the project is dead.
[13:41] <xu-contribute43w> Good Luck!  Have a nice weekend!
[22:03] <Christian_Cuban> Hello community.
[22:35] <JackFrost> Howdy.
[22:35] <JackFrost> bluesabre: It's not too late for that?
[22:41] <bluesabre> JackFrost: nope, not yet!
[22:41] <Christian_Cuban> Ok, it works. I just thought I joined the wrong channel xD.
[23:14] <JackFrost> Just tends to be quiet.
[23:14] <JackFrost> bluesabre: I uploaded ~things~, -notifyd and ristretto would be of most note.  hddtemp is going away so sensors doesn't recommend it anymore.


[01:49] <hggdh> ddecator: support added in your wiki. Also, please do ping me when you are to be interviewed by the board
[01:54] <ddecator> hggdh: tyvm, i just got the email, and i will definitely ping you :)
[02:09] <duanedesign> hggdh: i got an email my bug control membership was going to expire. I would like to get my membership renewed.
[02:30] <BUGabundo> duanedesign: doesn't it give you a link to renew?
[02:33] <duanedesign> BUGabundo: no. It says "To prevent this membership from expiring, you should get in touch
[02:33] <duanedesign> with one of the team's administrators:
[02:33] <BUGabundo> aahh
[02:33] <duanedesign> thanks though :)
[02:45] <yofel> you get that link only for public teams, BC requires admin approval
[02:57] <hggdh> duanedesign: will do
[02:58] <duanedesign> hggdh: thank you \o/
[02:58] <hggdh> ddecator: my pleasure, keep on, sir
[03:01] <hggdh> duanedesign: done
[03:01] <duanedesign> woot, thank you much
[06:47] <Takyoji> Would anyone be willing to assist me with reporting a bug that's most likely relevant to X11, which makes the system nearly unuseable, whereas you can't even get to a virtual terminal, because the screen goes black and flashes this display on a 1 second interval: http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a368/takyoji/IMG_0507.jpg
[06:48] <Takyoji> which either happens after so many minutes that the system is on, or if you try previewing any complex screensavers.
[06:49] <Takyoji> It's NEVER occurred in any prior versions of Ubuntu at all; and I recently upgraded the system to 10.04
[06:49] <Takyoji> Therefore, what logs would be most suitable for disclosing in a bug report?
[06:49] <micahg> Takyoji: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Debugging
[06:51] <Takyoji> For 'ubuntu-bug xorg', can I still perform that command after the system has been restarted?
[06:52] <Takyoji> (considering I can't get into a virtual terminal (via, Ctrl+Alt+F# key) or anything at all)
[06:54] <micahg> Takyoji: idk, you can definitely start that day
[06:54] <micahg> *way
[07:15] <giantpune> hi, i have a little bug in ubuntu 10.0.4.  is this the correct place to report it?
[07:16] <micahg> giantpune: ubuntu-bug package <--- we can help you figure out which package if necessary
[07:18] <giantpune> this one should be easy to track down.  i just tried to enable the "extra" desktop visual effects.  it said it had to install the nvidia driver to enable them.  while installing the driver, there is a progress window that pops up and the name of the progress window is still the default "untitled window"
[07:18] <micahg> giantpune: xprop | grep CLASS should tell you which program
[07:19] <giantpune> ill run that in a sec.  it is pestering me to restart right now
[07:32] <abhi_nav> hello
[07:33] <abhi_nav> anyone free to guide me filing a bug?
[07:33] <micahg> abhi_nav: sure
[07:35] <abhi_nav> micahg, I have launchdpad account. bug is 50% of the time when i start my computer all windows's TITLE bar is not there. title bar the one where min,max,and close button are. so i need to agin logout and login. this start to hapend after installing carodock. i need to open it with -c optioons if i run it with -o option then all title bars are gone and lots of graphics problem
[07:35] <micahg> abhi_nav: ubuntu-bug cairo-dock?
[07:36] <abhi_nav> micahg, means? I need to know how to and where to file this bug?
[07:36] <micahg> abhi_nav: we file bugs with ubuntu-bug PKGNAME
[07:37] <abhi_nav> micahg, yes yes i just run the program. but it give error that the problem cannot be reported. this is nota geniune ubuntu package
[07:37] <micahg> abhi_nav: then Ubuntu isn't the right place to report it
[07:37] <abhi_nav> micahg, ok. then what should i do?
[07:37] <micahg> abhi_nav: are you running a PPA version of cairo-dock?
[07:38] <abhi_nav> micahg, i per I remember I think I downloded its .deb
[07:38] <abhi_nav> micahg, or may be yes ppa
[07:38] <abhi_nav> micahg, I went to their web site that I remember for sure.
[07:39] <micahg> abhi_nav: take a look here: https://edge.launchpad.net/cairo-dock
[07:39] <abhi_nav> micahg, ok
[07:40] <abhi_nav> micahg, I went here: http://www.glx-dock.org/
[07:42] <abhi_nav> micahg, I am reporting bug now on launchpad.
[07:44] <Takyoji> micahg: Thank you for your assistance, the bug has been reported: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg/+bug/604192
[07:44] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 604192 in xorg (Ubuntu) "Screen goes blank and flashes vertical stripes on 1s interval (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New]
[07:44] <micahg> Takyoji: no problem
[07:44] <Takyoji> Is it still possible to find mentorship for triaging bugs?
[07:45] <micahg> Takyoji: sure, have you signed up yet?
[07:45] <Takyoji> Via the mailing list?
[07:46] <micahg> Takyoji: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/Mentors
[07:47] <Takyoji> ahh, alright; again, thank you.
[07:47] <kermiac> nigelb: you poked me? (a bit over 16hrs ago)
[07:47] <nigelb> kermiac: well don't mind.
[07:48] <nigelb> I was looking for an instructor for uud, but did get hold of someone
[07:48] <kermiac> nigelb: ok mate :) I just got home from an outing with the family. Glad you got it sorted mate
[07:48] <nigelb> kermiac: heh :)
[08:01] <abhi_nav> micahg, when i run cairo-dock -l degub that goes into infinite loop. also if i do ctrl c and stop it but then i cant show all the lines from starting. is there any way to redirect all its output to any debug.txt file?
[08:01] <micahg> abhi_nav: should that be debug?
[08:02] <micahg> abhi_nav: add 2>&1 | tee debug.txt
[08:02] <abhi_nav> micahg, yes they told on their launchpad page
[08:02] <abhi_nav> ok
[08:02] <abhi_nav> micahg, 'add' command not found
[08:03] <micahg> abhi_nav: not 'add', I meant add the rest of that to your command :)
[08:03] <abhi_nav> micahg, you mean cairo-dock -l 2>&1 | tee debug.txt
[08:03] <abhi_nav> ??
[08:03] <micahg> do you need the for degub in there?
[08:04] <abhi_nav> micahg, yes
[08:04] <micahg> *s/for/word
[08:04] <abhi_nav> micahg, they told me to add debug.txt
[08:04] <micahg> abhi_nav: is the flag -l or -ldegub?
[08:04] <abhi_nav> micahg, or should i just file witout debut.txt?
[08:04] <micahg> -l degub
[08:04] <abhi_nav> -l debug
[08:04] <micahg> cairo-dock -l debug 2>&1 | tee debug.txt
[08:06] <abhi_nav> micahg, hey sorry. it was my mistake correct commadn is:   cairo-dock -l debug > debug.txt then i need to stop it with ctrl c and now i am uploading it. :)
[08:06] <micahg> abhi_nav: that works too  if all the output is to STDOUT
[08:07] <abhi_nav> micahg, ok
[08:09] <abhi_nav> micahg, there is new bug in launchpad. i cannot double click in that debug.txt? it forcefully takes me to anyother random folder and forces me to open any file there but not debug.txt its in /home/abhijit
[08:10] <micahg> abhi_nav: I don't understand
[08:10] <abhi_nav> micahg, for that i need to shift debug.txt from /home/abhijit to /home/abhijit/Document then only i uploaded
[08:11] <micahg> abhi_nav: no, you shouldn't have to do that
[08:11] <abhi_nav> micahg, now bug successfully filed.
[08:11] <micahg> abhi_nav: just navigate to the folder w/the file
[08:11] <abhi_nav> micahg, but need to just now
[08:11] <abhi_nav> micahg, it was not allowing me to clck on debu.txt
[08:12] <micahg> abhi_nav: what browser?
[08:12] <abhi_nav> micahg, ok. now the bug is new by default thould i change it to something else?
[08:12] <abhi_nav> micahg, firefox
[08:12] <micahg> abhi_nav: what version?
[08:12] <abhi_nav> micahg, 3.6.6
[08:13] <abhi_nav> micahg, this is bug number: 604204
[08:13] <micahg> abhi_nav: is this bug 558674
[08:13] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 558674 in gtk+2.0 (Ubuntu) "Open file dialog malfunctions in lucid (affects: 10) (heat: 85)" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/558674
[08:14] <abhi_nav> micahg, no no it is 604204
[08:14] <micahg> abhi_nav: not the one you filed, the one you were experiencing when clicking the file
[08:14] <abhi_nav> micahg, yes yes yes exactly
[08:16] <abhi_nav> micahg, this bug affects me
[08:16] <micahg> abhi_nav: ok, you can mark it as such in launchpad
[08:17] <abhi_nav> micahg, yes I marked. now tell me what to do with status of the bug i file? should i change it?
[08:17] <micahg> abhi_nav: no, why?
[08:17] <abhi_nav> micahg, its status is new. should i change it to confirm etc?
[08:17] <micahg> abhi_nav: no
[08:17] <abhi_nav> micahg, ok. thanks
[08:28] <abhi_nav> micahg, did you all get the email for the bug i filed? or it is jut i got the email?
[08:28] <micahg> abhi_nav: jshould be just you
[08:28] <abhi_nav> micahg, ohh ok
[09:05] <Takyoji> So for contacting the bugsquad mentorship group, I have to contact the group owner?
[09:05] <Takyoji> (since that's the only option that I can find on the page)
[09:06]  * Takyoji pokes micahg, wondering if they're still active at the moment
[09:07] <micahg> Takyoji: did you read the page I gave you?
[09:07] <Takyoji> Yes, I read the page.
[09:07] <Takyoji> "Finally, request membership on the bugsquad-mentorship group on Launchpad"
[09:08] <micahg> Takyoji: on the page, you just click join
[09:08] <ddecator> Takyoji: click "Join this team"
[09:09] <Takyoji> So simply joining the Launchpad group is sufficient, or do I still have to contact the owner, or?
[09:09] <micahg> Takyoji: no, it requests membership, still needs to be approved
[09:09] <Takyoji> Because the wording on the wiki about that step is a bit vague.
[09:09] <ddecator> Takyoji: the admins will receive an email when you attempt to join (your membership needs to be approved)
[09:11] <Takyoji> ahh, alright. Someone should rephrase the wiki accordingly then, to imply clicking "Join the team" to 'send a request' to the team.
[09:11] <micahg> ddecator: maybe link request membership to the launchpad docs on how to join a team
[09:11] <ddecator> Takyoji: someone else was confused about that earlier as well, so we will soon
[09:11] <Takyoji> (just so future others don't get confused)
[09:11] <ddecator> micahg: oh, that could work..
[09:12] <Takyoji> and just to make sure, I'm simply asking for mentorship, rather than becoming a mentor [yet]
[09:12] <ddecator> Takyoji: right :)
[09:30]  * Takyoji leaves for the night
[09:56] <old-804lts> hi, i am having some problems with 8.04lts after an update, is this the right place to ask ?
[09:56] <micahg> old-804lts: support is in #ubuntu, we can help you file a bug
[09:56] <micahg> old-804lts: which update?
[09:57] <old-804lts> i was over at #ubuntu but its kind of crowded currently. i just ran the update manager and all kinds of problems resulted.
[09:59] <old-804lts> how do i file a bug ?
[09:59] <micahg> old-804lts: depends on what's wrong
[10:05] <old-804lts> Ok, my system is 8.04lts. after running the update manager recently, various things dont work no more. most importantly, the gui crashes -partially- meaning when i try to log off and the logoff screen is supposed to come up, the icon-bar on top of the screen and also on the bottom vanish. i can still to alt-tab to check on already running programs but thats it. shutdown only possible by powerbutton.
[10:09] <micahg> old-804lts: you can take a look at this debugging X page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Debugging, but someone in #support might be familiar with the issue if it's due to an upgrade
[10:09] <micahg> old-804lts: oops
[10:09] <micahg> old-804lts: I meant #ubuntu, not #support
[10:10]  * micahg really needs to go to sleep
[10:10] <old-804lts> micahg: lol. thank you. i'll try that. goodnight !
[10:11] <micahg> old-804lts: good luck
[10:11] <old-804lts> thnx. bye
[11:58] <BUGabundo> morning
[12:27] <abhi_nav> Matthieu Baerts?
[13:30] <^arky^> Can anyone find a solution for bug 64383
[13:30] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 64383 in file-roller (Ubuntu) (and 2 other projects) "UDF not properly recognised (affects: 5) (heat: 36)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/64383
[13:51] <vish> abhi_nav: he will be available in #cairo-dock
[13:51] <vish> abhi_nav: mattbe is his nick
[13:51] <abhi_nav> vish, oh yah thanks
[13:55] <^arky^> hi vish, howz the week going so far
[13:55] <^arky^> usb-creator broken anyone reproduce this bug 604271
[13:55] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 604271 in usb-creator (Ubuntu) "frontend.py: No source selected. (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/604271
[13:56] <vish> abhi_nav: and also , asking the question in full form will help you get quicker ans ;)
[13:56] <vish> ^arky^: stilll sleepy :D
[13:56] <abhi_nav> vish, ok :)
[14:00] <^arky^> vish, must be a great weekend then !
[14:16] <devildante> can someone help me debug bug 604090?
[14:16] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 604090 in linux (Ubuntu) "Packard Bell Easynote doesn't boot with Ubuntu 10.04 (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/604090
[15:35] <penguin42> devildante: What do you actually see on screen?
[15:37] <devildante> penguin42: Actually, I'm not the one to have this bug. I just wanted some advice on how to gather information when boot fails.
[15:39] <penguin42> devildante: I wonder if he's hitting bug 566379
[15:39] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 566379 in linux (Ubuntu Lucid) (and 1 other project) "[i855] X doesn't start with kernel 2.6.32-21 unless passing i915.modeset=1 (affects: 48) (dups: 10) (heat: 271)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/566379
[15:41] <devildante> i'll ask him if it works
[15:42]  * penguin42 actually needs to update my dads laptop from 8.04 and I think it has the same chipset
[15:43] <micahg> penguin42: keep in mind, hardy upgrades aren't enabled by default until the .1 release
[15:43] <penguin42> micahg: Oh, I hadn't realised that - when is .1 due?
[15:44] <micahg> penguin42: July 29
[15:45] <penguin42> micahg: Is this a case of actually expecting things to break or it just being a gap to give people a chance to test it?
[15:45] <micahg> penguin42: idk, probably a bit of both I would think
[15:47]  * penguin42 might just do a reinstall on his laptop; It's currently KDE 3.x and I doubt he's going to like KDE4 so I'll probably switch him to Gnome
[15:47] <micahg> penguin42: I hear Kubuntu 10.04 really rocks
[15:48] <penguin42> micahg: I don't like KDE4 - but it's a personal thing I guess
[15:48] <micahg> penguin42: I didn't either, but I haven't looked at it since 4.0 :)
[15:49] <penguin42> micahg: I give it a chance every so often, probably look at it every 6 months or so for a day
[16:01] <penguin42> devildante: The other relevant one might be bug 511001
[16:01] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 511001 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "[i855] Lucid Freeze shortly after X startup (needs KMS blacklist?) (affects: 29) (dups: 1) (heat: 193)" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/511001
[16:04] <devildante> penguin42: aren't these two bugs the same?
[16:06] <devildante> just that it affects different packages?
[16:18] <penguin42> they seem confusing to me - one seems to say it needs mode setting, the other seems to say it doesn't work with it
[16:19] <yofel> wasn't modesetting disabled for all 8* cards as it didn't work right?
[16:19] <yofel> or maybe I'm confusing that with yet another issue
[16:21] <penguin42> yofel: Yeh I think so, but if you look at one of those bugs it seems to suggest it only worked for him if KMS was enabled which is even odder
[18:03] <njin> Can someone triage this, it freeze system, for me is not medium but is hight, also present in 20100711.
[18:03] <njin> Thanks.
[18:04] <njin> 6039199
[18:04] <njin> ops 603919
[18:04] <micahg> njin: bugs are 6 digits at the moment
[18:04] <njin> :)
[18:04] <micahg> bug 603919
[18:04] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 603919 in apport (Ubuntu) "apport-gtk crashed with ImportError in <module>() (affects: 18) (dups: 1) (heat: 94)" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/603919
[18:04] <njin> yes
[18:05] <micahg> njin: I think someone will get to fix it Monday morning
[18:06] <yofel> that one...
[18:06] <micahg> yofel: anything you can do or does it need to wait for pitti?
[18:06] <yofel> the oddest thing about that bug is that everyone seems to have that, just I don't
[18:07] <yofel> no, I don't have any upload rights for apport, and I don't think it's an apport bug actually
[18:07] <njin> yofel: You have the last build ?
[18:07] <yofel> micahg: can you reproduce that? (Open a python shell, run 'import gi' or 'from gi.repository import GObject')
[18:08] <yofel> njin: yes, I'm running KDE though, but if I try to reproduce that bug.. I can't
[18:08] <micahg> yofel: I'm on Lucid, the bug's on maverick IIRC
[18:08] <yofel> ah ok
[18:08] <yofel> it is
[18:08]  * micahg can fire up test drive
[18:10] <njin> It is present in Ubuntu and Xubuntu
[18:10] <yofel> yeah, it's some pygtk issue I think. Well, gi is part of python-gobject now
[18:11] <micahg> 1hr till the ISO d/ls
[18:12] <yofel> well, someone will take care of it tomorrow anyway, it seems to be frequent enough
[18:13] <yofel> oh btw, if someone wants to use/test it: simple script to set a bug status to expired on LP: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~yofel/+junk/lp-scripts/files (DON'T use the experimental one)
[18:17] <vish> micahg: hi , the duplicate dictionaries bug can be fixed for maverick?
[18:17] <micahg> vish: yeah, it will be, I need to file bugs for the remaining duplicates
[18:17] <vish> micahg: awesome!
[18:26] <abhi_nav> vish, you are from which city?
[18:33] <vish> abhi_nav: chennai
[18:33] <abhi_nav> vish, ohh ok :)
[18:51] <yofel> meh, the retracer thinks that duplicates of bug 603919 are dups of bug 433087 all the time, even though the only thing the crashes have in common is that they are module import failures.
[18:51] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 603919 in apport (Ubuntu) "apport-gtk crashed with ImportError in <module>() (affects: 34) (dups: 21) (heat: 246)" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/603919
[18:51] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 433087 in apport (Ubuntu) "apport-gtk crashed with ImportError in <module>() (affects: 13) (dups: 2) (heat: 114)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/433087
[19:07] <yofel> micahg: mind to take a look at bug 196493? I'm not sure what to do with that
[19:07] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 196493 in ubuntu (and 1 other project) "Launch web browser keyboard shortcut loads directory listing for home folder (heat: 3)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/196493
[19:15] <hggdh> yofel: unless I am completely wrong, this is *not* a bug for us -- the OP is using upstream's FF, not one build by us
[19:16]  * hggdh wonders what the hell he is doing here, during a weekend, and with the World Cup finals to start...
[19:16] <micahg> hggdh: +1, that seems pretty clear from the upstream bug as well
[19:16] <yofel> heh
[19:17] <yofel> ok, I agree too, just wanted to make sure
[19:17] <hggdh> yofel: please nicely point to the OP that there is nothing we can do here, and close ;-)
[19:17] <yofel> will do
[19:20] <hggdh> yofel: BTW, this is probably a WONTFIX
[19:23] <yofel> hm... I wanted to use Invalid, but won't fix fits the situation better.
[19:24]  * yofel vanishes to root for the netherlands...
[20:18] <old-lts> Hi, was here a few hours ago, fixed the problem i had, but would like to file a bug: the update manager installed some updates. afterwards the system behaved erratic, logoff window vanished, programs did not run anymore and so forth. reason was : update manager does not check if there is enough space available on the system.  (ubuntu 8.04LTS)
[20:21] <yofel> urgh, no space left... that's not easy to check
[20:22] <yofel> there should be a bug about that somewhere on launchpad I think
[20:24] <old-lts> yofel: yes, took me some hours to figure out.
[20:26] <yofel> the general rule is that it's your responsibility to make sure there's enough space left, newer releases notify the user in case there's little space left somewhere
[20:29] <yofel> something like gentoos sandbox installs would be nice IMO
[20:29] <old-lts> yofel: ok. when you say newer releases, what version do you mean ?
[20:30] <yofel> not sure, I think karmic and lucid have it, haven't used gnome in a while, and I disable those as soon as I see them ^^
[20:35] <old-lts> yofel: hmm. i would have thought that something like this would be put in 8.04LTS too... ok. well. i suppose its a mood point as the new LTS is out, and i will probably move over sometime, too.
[20:37] <old-lts> yofel: thank you for your time. goodbye
[20:37] <Nafallo> old-lts: considering it's a feature of newer gnome versions I wouldn't expect it to just appear in an old release.
[20:37] <old-lts> Nafallo
[20:37] <Nafallo> hi btw
[20:38] <old-lts> Nafallo: hi, clicked too fast......  but shouldnt it be fixed in a LTS release ? i understand its not an issue since karmic...
[20:40] <yofel> it's not really a bug
[20:40] <yofel> it's your fault if you run out of space, we now help you a bit with that, that's all
[20:41] <Nafallo> old-lts: I would argue that it shouldn't. changing old releases except for critical bugs and security fixes shouldn't be the focus. with this particular feature it would require backporting a big chunk of changes in a big upstream. there is a new LTS out which has this feature as well.
[20:42] <old-lts> yofel: just found Bug #95260, marked invalid, probably for the same reason you just mentioned.
[20:42] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 95260 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "Not enough free disk space (heat: 2)" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/95260
[20:42] <old-lts> Nafallo: yes, i see.
[20:43] <old-lts> lol does that mean i was faster than the bot ?
[20:43] <Nafallo> no, that means the bot got triggered by you mentioning the bug :-)
[20:43] <old-lts> Well thank you both. have a nice day !
[20:43] <yofel> no, the bot was triggered by the 'bug #XXX' in your message ;)
[20:44] <yofel> !me
[20:44] <ubot2> Hi! I'm #ubuntu-bugs's favorite infobot, you can search my brain yourself at http://ubottu.com/factoids.cgi - Usage info: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Bots
[20:44] <old-lts> :-)  thanks. bye !
[20:46] <Nafallo> ooho. ubot2 is here! nice! :-D
[20:46]  * Nafallo hosts the bot ;-)
[21:03] <penguin42> Nafallo: Thank you!
[21:07] <zus> any moentors avaialble  today?
[21:07] <zus> mentors^^
[21:09] <micahg> zus: I'm available for occasional questions, but not full fledged mentoring
[21:09]  * ddecator as well
[21:10] <zus>  yeah its  sometimes hard to tell when im online for any legnth of time to get things going
[21:17] <stlsaint> ddecator: ping
[21:17] <ddecator> stlsaint: pong
[21:18] <stlsaint> ddecator: do i just keep checking the site to see when i get assigned?
[21:19] <ddecator> stlsaint: they'll email you. most likely tomorrow (they're usually gone on weekends)
[21:28] <stlsaint> that sucks :P
[21:32] <hggdh> well, we *do* like weekends, and we *do* have a life elsewhere ;-)
[21:32] <hggdh> some of the times, at least
[21:33] <ddecator> hggdh: i would hope so :p
[21:35] <stlsaint> hggdh: i wasnt suggesting that everyone should work *all* the time and i was saying it sucks cause i forgot that the weekend had come and i understand people are gone!!
[21:36] <abhi_nav> !weekend
[21:36] <ubot2> It's a weekend. Often on weekends the paid developers and a lot of the community may not be around to answer your question. Please be patient, wait longer than you normally would or try again during the working week.
[21:36] <yofel> btw, the soccer world cup final is still going on, so a few more people are absent right now :P
[21:36] <stlsaint> holy crap i get it! people are gone im not wigging out here! THANKS!
[21:37] <hggdh> stlsaint: I know :-)
[21:37] <hggdh> yofel: like mesself, one eye at the game, one eye here
[21:37] <yofel> +1 :D
[21:38]  * ddecator is cheering for holland, just not watching the game
[21:43] <trinikrono> :D
[21:48] <hggdh> raining yellow cards in the game...
[21:49] <yofel> well, the german commenter already said at the beginning that this game won't finish with 22 players
[21:49] <yofel> he was right...
[21:58] <penguin42> has anyone seen a bug where at the end of installation as it tries to reboot it gets hung with a load of cdrom io errors?
[21:59] <penguin42> it almost looks like it has a bunch of IO outstanding as it does the eject
[22:08] <trinikrono> hey guys what packages deals with unounting a volume from gnome
[22:08] <trinikrono> *unmounting
[22:08] <stlsaint> trinikrono: i think its in the base utilis...
[22:09] <stlsaint> mount/unmount
[22:23] <zus> any mentors avaialbe? (yet/now?)
[22:24] <micahg> !weekend > zus
[22:24] <ubot2> zus, please see my private message
[22:25] <zus> thanks
[22:26] <zus> ill book mark these pages and try tomorrow then.
[22:26] <micahg> zus: if you have specific questions, feel free to ask
[22:26] <hggdh> and we will help
[22:27] <zus> nothing specific,  just dont know where to begin,  ya know
[22:28] <zus> and the one page im looking at now, i didnt have a problem,  so i dont know how to adress it and move on.
[22:28] <hggdh> zus: give us a specific question
[22:30] <zus> if i try to recreate the bug, and i have no issues, then  do i change the status from new to what? and for response he /she didnt put if he was using 10.04 or anything
[22:43] <penguin42> zus: If he doesn't have enough information then ask for what's missing and put it as incomplete; just because you can't reproduce it doesn't mean it doesn't exist however
[22:46] <hggdh> zus: Please read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/KnowledgeBase -- look at how to triage, Status, etc
[22:47] <zus> how do i delete a comment from a post i asked a question in the wrong tab,..
[22:48] <yofel> you can't delete comments
[22:48] <yofel> not even edit them
[22:49] <trinikrono> ddecator: bug 517729
[22:49] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 517729 in usb-creator (Ubuntu) "Doesn't really work on 1GB drive (affects: 1) (heat: 28)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/517729
[22:50] <zus> thats too bad.
[22:59]  * maxwellian laughs, "xfce4-volumed is taking 50 - 60% cpu constantly after starting Firefox.  Huh??" :)
[22:59] <maxwellian> You go little go, get you some.
[23:01] <maxwellian> er, little guy
[23:14] <zus> sorry had to run afk.
[23:18] <shadeslayer> hey i see loads of proposed members at https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-bugcontrol/+members#proposed , should i apply for membership?
[23:19] <shadeslayer> or will i be waitlisted like the others till eternity :P
[23:19] <micahg> shadeslayer: aren't you a dev?
[23:19] <shadeslayer> micahg: nooooo
[23:19]  * shadeslayer will apply as soon he thinks he is capable
[23:19] <shadeslayer> micahg: member yes,dev no
[23:22] <penguin42> (Does anyone know an apparmour irc channel with any activity, I asked a question on I think the oftc servers 10 hours ago and there hasn't been any other activity at all)
[23:22] <yofel> shadeslayer: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugControl for the procedure
[23:23] <shadeslayer> ok
[23:23] <shadeslayer> was already looking at that :)
[23:23] <hggdh> shadeslayer: applications are usually reviewed in one week. We are considering cleaning up the backlog on applicants, BTW -- most of them are leftovers
[23:24] <shadeslayer> hggdh: ah ok... was just a bit concerned looking at the sheer number :P
[23:27] <shadeslayer> hggdh: btw https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Status needs a new entry .. Opinion
[23:27] <micahg> shadeslayer: not yet, we're not officially using it yet
[23:27] <shadeslayer> micahg: its not official? ... oh right im using edge
[23:28] <micahg> shadeslayer: no, it's out there, we're just not using it yet, see discussions on ubuntu-bugsquad and ubuntu-devel-discuss
[23:29] <shadeslayer> micahg: im following bugsquad ML,there was a discussion about a default reply,but "were not using it yet" .. does that mean its not appropriate to set a bug status to opinion ?
[23:29] <micahg> shadeslayer: that's a matter of *opinion*
[23:29]  * micahg ducks
[23:29] <shadeslayer> agj
[23:29] <shadeslayer> gah..
[23:29] <shadeslayer> :P
[23:30]  * micahg looks up the message
[23:31] <micahg> shadeslayer: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-bugsquad/2010-July/002431.html
[23:32] <shadeslayer> micahg: ok,i just set opinion on bug 579588
[23:32] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 579588 in kubuntu-website "Outdated information on Support page. (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [High,Opinion] https://launchpad.net/bugs/579588
[23:32] <shadeslayer> i think its the classic example of opinion
[23:33] <micahg> shadeslayer: no, that is not the correct use of it
[23:33] <shadeslayer> micahg: uh,why? we can still report bugs with ubuntu-bug
[23:33] <micahg> shadeslayer: but take that up with the Kubuntu people as that's not a project this channel works with
[23:34] <micahg> shadeslayer: needing details flushed out isn't opinion
[23:34] <micahg> shadeslayer: I should clarify, the kubuntu website is something this channel doesn't deal with, we love Kubuntu :)
[23:34] <shadeslayer> micahg: i was torn between incomplete and opinion,and opinion seemed a more logical
[23:35] <shadeslayer> micahg: hehe... im a kubuntu member only :P
[23:35] <micahg> shadeslayer: well, both processes should probably be described
[23:35] <micahg> shadeslayer: kubuntu member is an ubuntu member
[23:35] <shadeslayer> micahg: i know.. infact we get more bonus points in some respects :P
[23:36] <yofel> shadeslayer: the difference there is that incomplete is incomplete whereas opinion counts as closed
[23:36] <shadeslayer> ill poke someone on #kubuntu-devel about it
[23:36] <shadeslayer> yofel: opinion counts as closed? :o
[23:36] <shadeslayer> i thought opinion == needs a debate
[23:37] <micahg> shadeslayer: yes, it's a closed state like Invalid, Fix Released, Won't Fix
[23:37] <hggdh> shadeslayer: Opinion is still in discussion...
[23:37] <yofel> exactly, it's for when we want to close a bug, but someone else disagrees with that... or something like that...
[23:37] <hggdh> so I personally am refraining to add it in until a consensus arrives.
[23:37] <shadeslayer> ok,seems i made a mistake with this bug then :)
[23:39] <hggdh> shadeslayer: Opinion should be restricted to bugs where we will not fix (whatever the issue is) but the community has string positions, and keep on discussing the issue
[23:39] <shadeslayer> that seems a good way to describe it
[23:40] <shadeslayer> hggdh: that we do not consider a issue but the community does
[23:40] <shadeslayer> hggdh: but.. does that mean the bug can be opened again in the future?
[23:43] <hggdh> shadeslayer: this is one of the things we want to clarify. I do not see any reason why it could not be reopened, but I would like it to require special access


[11:07] <Quintasan> hello
[11:21] <Niraj_> hello
[15:20] <ESphynx> 'morning guys
[15:27] <highvoltage> g'morning


[21:47] <MTecknology> So, we just finished a part of our project - we now have a little suite of tools for anyone starting a LoCo that wants to host a site using drupal - which seems to be the most common situation.
[21:47] <MTecknology> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/loco-drupal/6.x/1.1.0
[21:47] <MTecknology> This belongs on the fridge, right?
[21:49] <MTecknology> I'm just packaging up our copy for Drupal 5.x too
[22:58] <MTecknology> :D http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/1827 :D
[23:00] <johnc4510> MTecknology: nice
[23:00] <johnc4510> :)
[23:02] <MTecknology> thanks
[23:03] <MTecknology> johnc4510: it was a fun venture
[23:04] <johnc4510> lol