[00:02] <Riddell> nixternal: I think beta release notes should include the highlights for the whole cycle
[00:02] <nixternal> oh wow
[00:02] <nixternal> OK
[00:02] <Riddell> nixternal: which would be just a copy and paste of the best of the alpha notes
[00:05] <jjesse> anyone else been throwing away a lot of cds lately that don't install?
[00:07] <nixternal> the new cds install
[00:10] <nosredna_ekim> seele: I have a printerconfig GUI dialog screen here that you might want to look at for GUI design (which I am admittedly horrible at)
[00:10] <nosredna_ekim> seele: is a screenshot best, or a .ui ?
[00:10] <seele> screenshot
[00:10] <seele> thx
[00:10] <nosredna_ekim> ok
[00:10] <jjesse> evening
[00:11] <dasKreech> jjesse: you can install from the hard drive
[00:12] <jjesse> dasKreech: really?  how does that work?
[00:12] <dasKreech> !iso
[00:12] <ubotu> To mount an ISO disc image, type « sudo mount -o loop <ISO-filename> <mountpoint> » - There is a list of useful cd image conversion tools at http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/CD_Image_Conversion - Always verify the ISO using !MD5 before !burning.
[00:12] <dasKreech> wait that wasn't it :)
[00:12] <dasKreech> !install
[00:12] <ubotu> Ubuntu can be installed in lots of ways. Please see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation for documentation. Problems during install? See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommonProblemsInstall and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseNotes/UbiquityKnownIssues - Don't want to use a CD? Try http://tinyurl.com/3exghs - See also !automate
[00:12] <nixternal> Riddell: KDE 4, KDE 3, Desktop Effects, Amarok, Wubi, Encryption, NTFS Support -- anything else big you would like included?
[00:12] <dasKreech> jjesse: bottom URL
[00:12] <nosredna_ekim> seele: seele at kde.org ?
[00:12] <seele><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[00:13] <nosredna_ekim> nixternal: printerconfig?
[00:13] <nixternal> hey, where is my @kde.org :p
[00:13] <awen_> ScottK: no fixes for p-m anyway... the in-hardware check doesn't make sense due to some shortcommings in HAL reading the brightness state (eg. it can only read the last value set by software)
[00:13] <jjesse> hrmm bot still references dapper on that second one
[00:13] <dasKreech> nixternal: You have a vista.gov ;-P
[00:13] <nosredna_ekim> seele: ok, I have to go, i'll send you the SS right now though
[00:14] <dasKreech> jjesse: me?
[00:14] <jjesse> dasKreech: under !install it references DapperReleaseNotes/.Ubiquity/KnownIssues
[00:15] <jjesse> !install
[00:15] <ubotu> Ubuntu can be installed in lots of ways. Please see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation for documentation. Problems during install? See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommonProblemsInstall and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseNotes/UbiquityKnownIssues - Don't want to use a CD? Try http://tinyurl.com/3exghs - See also !automate
[00:15] <dasKreech> jjesse: that's not the last URL
[00:15] <jjesse> i know that but still needs to be updated :)
[00:15] <awen_> ScottK: if you have some other bugs , or other missing/planned fixes, I should have a look at, please tell
[00:15] <jjesse> brb rebooting to install hardy
[00:17] <nosredna_ekim> later guys...
[00:19] <nixternal> !no, install is Ubuntu can be installed in a lot of ways. Please see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation for documentation. Problems during install? See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommonProblemsInstall. Don't want to use a CD? Try http://tinyurl.com/3exghs - See also !automate
[00:19] <ubotu> I'll remember that nixternal
[00:19] <nixternal> !install
[00:19] <ubotu> install is Ubuntu can be installed in a lot of ways. Please see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation for documentation. Problems during install? See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommonProblemsInstall. Don't want to use a CD? Try http://tinyurl.com/3exghs - See also !automate
[00:19] <nixternal> wtfork
[00:19] <nixternal> !no install is Ubuntu can be installed in a lot of ways. Please see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation for documentation. Problems during install? See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommonProblemsInstall. Don't want to use a CD? Try http://tinyurl.com/3exghs - See also !automate
[00:20] <dasKreech> nixternal: Huh what's the difference ?
[00:22] <jeroen-> I try to find a release date for hardy, but can't find a roadmap :-(
[00:22] <jeroen-> oh wait, sorry :-)
[00:23] <jeroen-> found it
[00:23] <dasKreech> Search for schedule
[00:23] <jeroen-> April 24th :-(
[00:23] <jeroen-> there goes my schedule
[00:25] <ScottK> awen_: Will do.  I probably won't look at it much before Saturday.  I'm mostly thrilled fixing apport didn't result in an avalanch of new crashes being reported.
[00:26] <awen_> ScottK: the quiet weeks where apport crashes wasn't coming in gave you the time to fix all the bugs ;)
[00:26] <Riddell> nixternal: kaffeine codec install maybe, bulletproof X
[00:26] <ScottK> Hopefully the people that went to the trouble to report crashes manually gave us reasonable coverage.
[00:26] <ScottK> nixternal: Don't forget the displayconfig note I gave you.
[00:27] <dasKreech> nixternal: Nice pointing out the still open bugs
[00:27] <nixternal> well, it seems with Beta we are just going over the major things in Hardy
[00:30] <nixternal> Riddell: do the DVD codecs work with Kaffeine yet?
[00:34] <Riddell> nixternal: yes, but xine itself is broken for dvds
[00:34] <Riddell> dasKreech: we would do backports same as we currently do for gutsy
[00:34] <dasKreech> wonderful :)
[00:36] <Riddell> (infact we might do more than that, we'll discuss at UDS)
[00:38] <dasKreech> backport to dapper >_<
[00:39] <seele> Riddell: what part of printing is nosredna_ekim working on?
[00:39] <seele> I'm not sure what to make of this screenshot he sent me
[00:40] <Riddell> seele: I think he's been doing bits on the new printer configutation tool
[00:42] <seele> hmm
[00:48] <dasKreech> jjesse: hardied?
[00:49] <jjesse> dasKreech: yes kde4 hardied
[00:49] <jjesse> miss things like an irc client
[00:50] <dasKreech> irssi :)
[00:50] <jjesse> so i had to install konverstation
[00:50] <jjesse> never got used to irsii
[00:50] <seele> dasKreech: KDE is a *desktop* environment ;P
[00:52] <dasKreech> seele, jjesse: kopete
[00:53] <jjesse> dasKreech: didn't know kopete did it
[00:53] <seele> Riddell: is the printer configuration tool planned to be completed really soon?  because it's in the hardy beta and pretty much not operational
[00:53] <jjesse> that's cool
[00:53] <jjesse> need to change the book on that i'm sure :(
[00:54] <Riddell> seele: no, it'll have to be disabled for this release, I just haven't had enough time to work on it unfortunately
[00:54] <seele> Riddell: will we use the kde3 tool then?  or is it broken?
[00:55] <Riddell> seele: kde 3 tool works just not in all situations, and we have the new applet which does the auto-configure stuff and that solves the main problems
[00:56] <Riddell> so yes we'll use the kde 3 tool and the new applet
[00:56] <seele> what is the new applet?  is there a package i can download?
[00:57] <awen_> dasKreech: kopete misses irc support on the current kde4 live-cd
[00:57] <Riddell> seele: system-config-printer-kde-applet in the system-config-printer-kde package
[00:57] <Riddell> seele: same package as the new config tool
[00:57] <dasKreech> awen_: >_<
[00:57] <jjesse> dasKreech: am i stupid and not seeing irc in kopete?
[00:57] <Riddell> seele: you should already have it running, if you plug in a new printer it should pop up, also if you print something
[00:58] <dasKreech> jjesse: apparently it's not there
[00:58] <jjesse> dangi i thought i saw it once?
[00:59] <awen_> jjesse: irc in kopete is missing in kde4 atm... there is already a bug-report against the knetwork-kde4 source
[00:59] <seele> Riddell: yeah, i saw the kprint thing (or whatever it is called) but i only have a network printer and the wizard in Applications:System doesn't work
[00:59] <awen_> at least I found the bug report yesterday
[01:00] <Riddell> seele: right, network printing is still the problem.  if ipp printer sharing is on it should just work, or you can struggle with the kde 3 setup tool, or you can just system-config-printer-gnome
[01:00] <jjesse> interesting the default home page in firefox when i installed is the firefox welcome page on my gnome hardy its wleocme to ubuntu
[01:01] <seele> Riddell: ah, figures the part i need is broken :)
[01:04] <nixternal> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/HardyHeron/Beta/Kubuntu    <-- Riddell
[01:05] <Riddell> nixternal: looks great
[01:05] <nixternal> groovy, I am going to take the screenshots now
[01:05] <Riddell> nixternal: I have screenshots of the upgrade process
[01:06] <nixternal> either attach them to the wiki or upload them so I can grab and edit..that would rock
[01:07] <Riddell> nixternal: http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/upgrade/
[01:07] <nixternal> thanks!
[01:07] <Riddell> nixternal: can be put at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HardyUpgrades
[01:07] <nixternal> ok, I will work on that in a bit as well
[01:07] <Riddell> will need some cropping of course
[01:08] <Riddell> nixternal: "Kubuntu with KDE 3" -> "Kubuntu"  it's the definitive version
[01:08] <Riddell> "Kubuntu with KDE 4" -> Kubuntu KDE 4 Remix
[01:08] <apachelogger> Riddell: if we settle the kde4 version of gtk-qt-engine on the kde3 version, should we keep the changelog and document all changes?
[01:08] <Riddell> apachelogger: they should be separate packages for now surely
[01:08] <apachelogger> yeah
[01:08] <apachelogger> well
[01:09] <Riddell> nixternal: KDE 4 won't be in shipit, exact method to be decided but just say "CDs available for groups who need it..."
[01:09] <apachelogger> that sentence was wrong
[01:09] <apachelogger> Riddell: if we use the kde3 version as base for te kde4 packaging
[01:09]  * apachelogger should go to bed :S
[01:09] <Riddell> apachelogger: scrap the changelog in that case, no point duplicating it
[01:10] <Riddell> nixternal: Info: can point to the relevant dot.kde.org article, or KDE release pages
[01:10] <apachelogger> ok
[01:11]  * Riddell snoozes
[01:20] <nixternal> ScottK: can you link me to that page about your changes again? I am going to write up a little something about them in the release notes
[01:26] <nixternal> ScottK: never mind, I grep'd my logs for it
[01:31] <ScottK> nixternal: I've still got it if you want it.  I just need to fire up my laptop.
[01:33] <ScottK2> nixternal: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/59981/
[01:57] <yuriy> bug 105899 has patches upstream from a few months ago
[01:57] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 105899 in knetworkmanager "KNetworkManager Should Support "Key Type" Selection under WPA Enterprise" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/105899
[02:03] <nixternal> hrmm, I take that drive encryption on install isn't available on a Desktop CD?
[02:03] <nixternal> also, jjesse was right, you can't install with the latest Desktop CD...has an issue with partition sizes
[02:10] <apachelogger> Riddell: kdepim-kde4 is still in the archives, this should be removed ASAP as it has broken dependencies and is old and ...
[02:10] <nixternal> was requested a month or so back and never heard much about it
[02:13] <ScottK2> Maybe there's an archive admin that cares enough about Kubuntu to do it ....
[02:18] <apachelogger> blueyed: I was wrong there, is some issue with the po files I can't find a proper solution for, I will have a look at it tomorrow ... you can find the current package at http://aplg.kollide.net/kubuntu/gtk-qt-engine-kde4/
[02:19] <ScottK2> nixternal: You got what you need on release notes, right?
[03:20] <ScottK2> How the heck to I navigate in kde3 with just a keyboard (machine in question is mouseless)?
[03:23] <nixternal> ctrl+esc == kmenu
[03:23] <nixternal> alt+space == katapult ;p
[03:23] <nixternal> alt+f2 == krunner :p
[03:24] <nixternal> or you can actually go into system settings, and setup the arrow keys for mouse control
[03:24] <nixternal> oh my, Riddell gave me 12 images for the updater..that's insane
[03:25] <awen_> ScottK2: just like allways :) ... katapult is your friend; and konqueror is one of the greatest browsers to use keyboard only
[03:26] <ScottK2> ctrl + esc got me ksysguard.
[03:27] <ScottK2> alt + space worked.
[03:29] <awen_> ScottK2: kmenu = alt+f1 ?
[03:40] <ScottK2> I got what I needed with katapult.  Thanks.
[03:41]  * ScottK2 will try ctrl + esc again.  I guess if that continues to bring up ksysguard it's a bug.
[03:43] <awen_> ScottK: ctrl+esc has always brougt ksysguar for me (since at least feisty)
[03:43] <ScottK> OK.  Then I don't know what nixternal was smoking.
[03:43] <ScottK> Thanks.
[03:43] <awen_> ScottK: some windows weed ;)
[03:44] <awen_> or maybe he uses the windows scheme in shortcuts (could very well have ctrl+esc as default)
[03:46]  * awen_ goes offline
[04:46] <nixternal> Riddell: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HardyUpgrades  -- complete - added a 2nd page (HardyUpgrades/Kubuntu) with a full graphical version of the installation process.
[05:15] <yuriy> kdm-kde3 is still default for kubuntu-kde4, right?
[06:07] <Arby> nixternal: just reading the HardyUpgrades page, a few comments if you're interested
[06:07] <Arby> the first section says you can only upgrade to Hardy from 7.10
[06:08] <Arby> then next section describes how to upgrade from Dapper
[06:08] <Arby> could be confusing
[06:10] <Arby> more importantly the instructions for LTS to LTS upgrades are confusing
[06:10] <Arby> if I go adept-manager > manage repositories
[06:11] <Arby> I see the sources.list
[06:11] <Arby> the dapper-proposed repository doesn't appear in that list for me to enable it
[06:12] <Arby> and there is nothing to tell me what it's address should be
[06:12] <Arby> I tried running kdesu "adept_manager --dist-upgrade-devel" but that doesn't work
[06:12] <Arby> maybe it's just me and I've forgotten how to do stuff in dapper
[06:13] <Arby> but thought I should mention it
[06:13] <Arby> feel free to ping to discuss further
[06:13] <Arby> I'll be at work but I'll try to help

[06:15] <nixternal> Arby: I am only concerned with the Kubuntu instructions...the rest is for Ubuntu..honestly we should have our own page anyways
[06:17] <Arby> so will the LTS instructions for dapper be different
[06:17] <Arby> or is dapper to hardy not supported for kubuntu
[06:17] <nixternal> Kubuntu isn't LTS, so anything dealing with LTS doesn't concern us at this point
[06:18] <Arby> I can see people with kubuntu dapper boxes being unhappy about that
[06:18] <nixternal> for Kubuntu, you can only go from Gutsy -> Hardy
[06:18] <Arby> but that discussion has been had
[06:19] <nixternal> well, they can be angry at Canonical..it wasn't our choice
[06:19] <Arby> I quite agree
[06:19] <Arby> I'm not arguing with you
[06:19] <nixternal> oh I know
[06:19] <stdin> to anyone with upload rights: patch for bug #201825 up
[06:19] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 201825 in kdenetwork-kde4 "wrong dependencies in kdenetwork-dev-kde4" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/201825
[06:19] <nixternal> watching some funny youtube videos :p
[06:20]  * nixternal wishes he had upload rights
[06:22] <nixternal> stdin: test building it now and will then upload
[06:22] <nixternal> thanks for the patch!
[06:23] <stdin> nixternal: wasn't a big fix, one word really ;)
[06:23] <nixternal> 2
[06:23] <stdin> though I fixed another little bug too
[06:24] <nixternal> kde -> kde4, kdenetwork -> kdenetwork-kde4, ooh and Binary -> source
[06:24] <nixternal> so 3 :p
[06:24] <stdin> well, I've been itching to do something recently :)
[06:25] <nixternal> hehe
[06:30] <Arby> nixternal: so the recommended upgrade path for Dapper is via Edgy/Feisty/Gutsy?
[06:31] <Arby> starting from EdgyUpgrades?
[06:44] <nixternal> that I couldn't tell ya
[06:51] <nixternal> could kdenetwork-kde4 take any longer to build?
[07:06] <Arby> oh well, work time now
[07:22] <stdin> nixternal: I hope is built by now
[07:28] <nixternal> ya, uploading it now
[07:29] <nixternal> everything seemed to install fine
[07:29] <Nightrose> morning :)
[07:29] <nixternal> mornin' Nightrose
[07:29] <stdin> good, I'll send it to the PPA :)
[07:32] <nixternal> Successfully uploaded packages.
[07:32] <nixternal> and on that note, I can go to sleep now :)
[07:32] <nixternal> g'nite
[07:32] <Nightrose> ;-) nini nixternal
[07:52] <jussi01> hrm, did anyone else have the link in the email from lp about the new kde4 list not work?
[08:04] <rbrunhuber-au> hobbsee ping
[08:10] <Nightrose> jussi01: jep - it is a not really sane tld ;-) - you can sign up on the LP page
[08:10] <jussi01> Nightrose: ahh, thnaks
[08:10] <Nightrose> ;-)
[08:10] <Nightrose> yw
[08:15] <Nightrose> Hobbsee: did you tell the launchpad guys about the broken link yet?
[08:16] <Nightrose> (in the mail about the mailinglist)
[08:16] <Hobbsee> Nightrose: yes
[08:16] <Nightrose> ok cool
[08:17] <rbrunhuber-au> Hi Hobbsee
[08:17] <Hobbsee> heya
[08:18]  * Hobbsee is only semi-here
[08:18] <rbrunhuber-au> Finally I'm in Sydney.
[08:18] <rbrunhuber-au> Hobbsee, only one minute please.
[08:20] <_StefanS_> Riddell: we should enable shadowed text for the windeco. I forgot to mention it earlier.
[08:21] <_StefanS_> bbl
[08:23] <Serega> mornin
[09:09] <Tonio_> hi there
[09:26] <jpatrick> hey Tonio_
[09:34] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: we should enable shadowed text for the windeco. I forgot to mention it earlier, can we do it now?
[09:37] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: sure
[09:37] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: I would like to change the buttons
[09:37] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: make the "hover" more visible
[09:37] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: that requires to change the images right ?
[10:00] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: yep thats right
[10:00] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: Although I'm not sure if you need the original inkscape file to make it look any good. I can send them to you
[10:01] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: I was going to look at it, but you know time flies
[10:13] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: I sent you the original svg now, its the one postfixed with 2
[10:14] <_StefanS_> bbl
[11:50] <rbrunhuber-au> Hobbsee, have a minute now?
[11:52] <jjesse> morning
[11:55] <ScottK> It looks like the kdebase in the Kubuntu bzr is pretty ancient.  I'm preparing an upload (to apply cjwatson's man page fix).  I think it would make sense to remove the vcs headers from debian/control at the same time?
[11:56] <ScottK> Good morning jjesse.
[11:56] <jjesse> hello ScottK
[11:57] <Riddell> ScottK: I'd keep them, we'll use bzr when there the tools are more integrated
[11:58] <ScottK> Riddell: OK.  Will do.
[12:09] <Jucato> seele: comment #17 is by far the best comment on your blog :)
[12:14] <ScottK2> Riddell: Opinions on the patches in Bug #19767 (looks like Debian made this change almost two years ago) and Bug #176114
[12:14] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 19767 in kdebase "Kde help search fails too quietly  if htdig is not installed" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19767
[12:14] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 176114 in kdebase "[Konqueror 3.5.8] Ad Block Plus doesn't work after list upgrade" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/176114
[12:20] <Riddell> ScottK2: htdig is in universe, we can't add it
[12:21] <Riddell> ScottK2: second one looks fine if it works
[12:22] <ScottK> Riddell: htdig patch is already in kdebase, just points to the wrong place.  I know we can't add it ad depends, but we can at least fix the path.
[12:22] <ScottK> ad/as
[12:23] <Riddell> ScottK: ah, I see the second patch, go for it then
[12:23] <ScottK> Thanks
[12:40] <smarter_> oh I remember #176114
[12:41] <smarter_> Unfortunately my patch didn't work and I've no idea why
[12:43] <seele> Jucato: lol
[12:44] <Jucato> :D
[12:44] <jjesse> evening Jucato
[12:44] <Jucato> good morning jjesse!
[12:44]  * Jucato stretches his legs
[12:44] <jussi01> yay!!!!
[12:44] <jussi01> :D
[12:44] <jjesse> yay
[12:45] <Jucato> yay
[12:45] <Jucato> (what are we yay'ing about?)
[12:45] <jussi01> Jucato: he didnt use my name...
[12:45] <jjesse> life?
[12:45] <jussi01> :D
[12:45] <Jucato> lol
[12:45] <Jucato> yeah 2nd time :)
[12:45] <Jucato> he's getting better at it
[12:45] <smarter> what's even more strange is that "                 if (line.lower().compare("[adblock]") == 0)" right before should be enough to avoid the bug
[12:47]  * jpatrick watches yao_ziyuan in #k
[12:47] <smarter> this guy is so funny :P
[12:48]  * jussi01 sighs at him
[12:49] <smarter> still complaining about asians characters support?
[12:49] <jpatrick> no
[12:50] <jpatrick> system beeps appartently
[12:50] <ScottK> smarter: So that means I shouldn't worry about applying that patch?
[12:50] <smarter> ScottK: you should worry about finding a proper patch :P
[12:50] <ScottK> smarter: I'm assembling available ones right now.  I guess I won't count that one.
[12:51] <smarter> I may try to make a patch that work this weekend if I get enough time and motivation ;)
[12:51] <Riddell> nixternal: one more upgrade image if you could, for upgrading from an alternate CD rather than the internet http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/cd1.png
[12:52] <ScottK> smarter: If get one that works, please let me know.
[12:52] <smarter> sure
[12:53] <ScottK> I may even be done test building kdebase by this weekend ...
[13:00] <Riddell> seele: did you have anything to add to KubuntuDefaultSettings ?
[13:02] <smarter> mmh, is there a fix for the "hal-storage-fixed-mount-all-options refused uid 1000" when you try to mount an ntfs partition in Kubuntu other than upgrading to Hardy?
[13:05] <etretyak> smarter: only if you apply patches to kdebase from hardy
[13:05] <seele> Riddell: click instead of hover on kickoff, but i didnt ask because i know they wont go for it
[13:08] <seele> they're also talking about reordering the tabs depending on the dock location of kickoff, which i think is stupid but whatever
[13:10]  * Jucato would love it if the tabs were movable/arrangeable...
[13:10] <seele> sure, under user control
[13:10] <seele> but not reordering them by default
[13:10]  * Jucato nods
[13:12] <seele> hmm.. orange mango juice is good in theory, but so thick it's like youre drinking puree or something
[13:12] <Jucato> hahahah!  :)
[13:13] <Jucato> that comes in powder form here... so you can control how diluted you want it to bee
[13:16] <seele> peach apple juice is good too.  the peach makes it a little thicker, but not as thick as the mango
[13:18] <Jucato> hm.. never had peach apple...
[13:18]  * Jucato wonders if he can find one somewhere
[13:58] <txwikinger> why doesn't vnc work in hardy anymore?
[14:17] <neversfelde|mobi> Riddell: I am ready for an upgrade test. Which is the best way to do that?
[14:18] <Riddell> neversfelde|mobi: upgrading from 7.10?
[14:18] <neversfelde|mobi> Riddell: yes
[14:19] <Riddell> neversfelde|mobi: see if you can follow these https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HardyUpgrades/Kubuntu
[14:19]  * Riddell decides on random oxygen artwork for beta http://kubuntu.org/index2.php
[14:20] <seele> hey.. those are my glasses!
[14:21] <neversfelde|mobi> Riddell: ok, will do
[14:22] <Jucato> seele: hahah! :)
[14:22] <Hobbsee> seele: you should take more care of them, then
[14:23] <seele> haha
[14:25] <Jucato> or make sure they stay out of Riddell's reach :)
[14:28] <onlinelli> Hi everyone, I'm trying to do the upgrade from gutsy to hardy - but I'm stuck at installing the linux-headers... can anyone please give me a hint on troubleshooting?
[14:28] <nosrednaekim> nixternal: is the compiz configurator not on the kde4 CD?
[14:28] <nosrednaekim> onlinelli: #ubuntu+1
[14:29] <onlinelli> ok, thanks for pointing out
[14:30] <nosrednaekim> nixternal: also, in the feedback section under support, that should be "#ubuntu+1" I think...
[14:36] <apachelogger> omg, I so don't feel like filing a FFe for gtk-qt-engine-kde4 -.-
[14:37] <Hobbsee> apachelogger: main or universe?
[14:37] <apachelogger> universe
[14:37] <Hobbsee> ScottK: can you co-approve it over irc please?
[14:38] <ScottK2> apachelogger: Go for it.  Please mark it down in a bug at least with the changelog.  Please make an upload that works.
[14:39] <apachelogger> ScottK2: k, thanks :)
[14:41] <\sh> Riddell: bug #55973 ... do you think it's ok to mark it "won't fix"? ,-) it's from 2006 :(
[14:41] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 55973 in arts "Patch for crash with message "can't create MCOP directory"" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/55973
[14:42] <ScottK2> \sh: I'm compiling a new kdebase right now that has a patch sent in 2006.  I wouldn't assume just based on age.
[14:43] <Riddell> \sh: yes
[14:43] <\sh> ScottK2: I wonder why mpg321 is mentioned now
[14:43] <ScottK2> Dunno. I didn't look at the bug, I just don't think age based assumptions area good plan.
[14:43] <nosrednaekim> seele: did you have time to look at that interface? I'd really like to know what you think of it before I spend any more time working on it :)
[14:44] <\sh> ScottK2: I was more thinking about "artsd is evil and we should forget about it"
[14:44] <ScottK2> But keep in mind I work on systems in my day job where we never ever mark a bug closed unless we can trace to a fix, so I may be biased.
[14:44] <ScottK2> Fair enough.  I think I also transposed won'tfix and invalid when I read it the first time.
[14:44] <seele> nosrednaekim: i did.. although it was hard to understand just one screen
[14:45] <seele> nosrednaekim: are you modeling it after an existing wizard or app?
[14:45] <nosrednaekim> seele: a bit, system-config-printer (the gtk one)
[14:46] <\sh> ScottK2: I think it's ok for this special bug, which is no.1 on my list, to know a good and easy workaround...so let us set it to "Won't fix" with a comment to the workaround
[14:46] <nosrednaekim> it has a pop up windows for queues, I have an embedded listview
[14:47] <seele> ok.. i'll have to look at that again, i forget what all it does
[14:48] <nosrednaekim> seele: when the "PSC1210" in the list view is selected, the "URI" automatically gets updated
[14:48] <ScottK2> \sh: Fair enough
[14:49] <\sh> ScottK2: ok..I'll deal with it when I'm home...
[15:17] <Tm_T> apachelogger: slap me when you're awaken, son
[15:31] <jpatrick> I think vorian needs help
[15:31] <vorian> duh
[15:31] <vorian> that was silly
[15:32] <jpatrick> now you've lost your cloak
[15:33] <vorian> :(
[15:33] <vorian> stupid keepnick
[15:33]  * jpatrick hugs vorian
[15:33] <nixternal> mornin'
[15:33] <vorian> howdy howdy
[15:34] <nixternal> can you believe Chicago is under yet another winter weather advisory?
[15:34] <nixternal> wth, where is the spring already
[15:34] <vorian> yes, this winter sucks
[15:34] <jpatrick> nixternal: send some over, it's getting to hot here
[15:34] <nixternal> we are like 4' over our norm this year
[15:34]  * nixternal chucks a snowball at jpatrick
[15:35] <vorian> where is that darn global warming they keep promising?
[15:35] <jjesse_> i blame global warming
[15:35] <vorian> doh!
[15:35]  * Jucato blames nixternal (as always)
[15:35] <nixternal> actually, tonight we are supposed to get wet and heavy snow..so that might be an iceball when I am done with it :p
[15:35] <jjesse_> :)
[15:35] <nixternal> vorian: hahahaha, my old man said the same thing
[15:35] <vorian> :)
[15:36] <nixternal> our yard is a sloppy mess from the previous melts plus the tremendous amount of rain we had
[15:36] <jjesse_> yay we are only supposed to get 1 to 2 inches of snow
[15:36] <jpatrick> not fair, cloudless sun here
[15:36] <nixternal> bah, 6 inches here
[15:36] <jpatrick> sky*
[15:36] <nixternal> haha
[15:36] <nixternal> cloudless sun
[15:36] <nixternal> Riddell: I fixed up your image and the Kubuntu upgrade page
[15:38] <jeroen-> beta update from gutsy went fine
[15:38] <Riddell> jeroen-: over the internet?
[15:39] <jjesse_> nixternal: nice job on the release notes for beta
[15:39] <Riddell> jeroen-: i386?
[15:39] <jeroen-> Riddell: yes
[15:39] <jeroen-> Riddell: yes
[15:39] <Riddell> jeroen-: excellent, many thanks
[15:39] <jeroen-> same as always
[15:39] <jeroen-> 2 minor things :-(
[15:39] <jeroen-> 1: after a while during the process clicking the mouse had no effect any more
[15:39] <jeroen-> had to use the keyboard
[15:40] <jeroen-> but can be a local issue
[15:40] <Riddell> that's very strange
[15:40] <jeroen-> 2: sudo on the command line doesn't work anymore after booting, it gives: sudo: unable to resolve host k-uptown
[15:40] <jeroen-> latter one is my hostname
[15:41] <Riddell> jeroen-: what does `hostname` report your host as?
[15:41] <jeroen-> so if someone has a solution for #2, that would be fine
[15:41] <jeroen-> Riddell: k-uptown
[15:42] <jeroen-> Riddell: and also kdesu doesn't work
[15:43] <jeroen-> mmm I'm a afraid this is not a minor issue
[15:43] <nixternal> Riddell: bug 32906
[15:43] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 32906 in sudo "sudo shouldn’t ABSOLUTELY NEED to look up the host it’s running on" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/32906
[15:44] <alleeHol> I've uploaded a gwenview to ppa: Fix crash with wrong EXIF info: http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=159522
[15:44] <ubotu> KDE bug 159522 in general "gwenview craches on images with incorrect exif info" [Normal,New]
[15:44] <alleeHol> should I add a bug report or is reminding after freeze enough?
[15:44] <jeroen-> fortunaly I have set my root password (if I remember)
[15:45] <nixternal> jeroen-: it seems either k-uptown is missing from either /etc/hosts or /etc/hostname (probably hosts since hostname returns your hostname)
[15:45] <Riddell> alleeHol: poke me tomorrow to upload is fine
[15:46] <alleeHol> Riddell: k, thx
[15:46] <nixternal> and it seems the only workaround at this time is to boot from a livecd to fix it
[15:46]  * nixternal wonders if there is a forums post with a true work around
[15:46] <nixternal> and it doesn't seem to attack everybody
[15:51] <\sh> nixternal: elaborate please? what is missing from /etc/host{s,name}?
[15:52] <jeroen-> nixternal: k-uptown is indeed not in my host file
[15:52] <jeroen-> nixternal: but or I didnt set a root password or I forgot
[15:53] <\sh> now I get it ;)
[15:53] <jeroen-> and now!?
[15:53] <\sh> jeroen-: rescue system...or init=/bin/bash or whatever it needs to get root shell ;)
[15:53] <jeroen-> \sh: yes that was where I was afraid of
[15:54] <jeroen-> I will be back
[15:55] <ScottK2> nixternal: I love the first comment in that bug, "…yeah, sudo, it’s all very clever until someone loses an eye!"
[15:56] <Tm_T> Riddell: hmm, are you as my "mentor" with evand  with my summer project, migration assistant (windows) or do we have someone else who are more close with this issue?
[15:57] <Riddell> Tm_T: yes, me and evand
[15:58] <Tm_T> Riddell: roger, can you send me an email saying "I am the mentor of this project", some proof is asked
[15:58] <Tm_T> jussi.kekkonen at gmail yadda
[15:58] <Tm_T> I got one from evand already
[15:59] <Tm_T> Riddell: 50/50 changes to get the job (I'll do this anyway though)
[15:59] <Tm_T> as in I'm already in final round
[16:03]  * apachelogger slaps Tm_T
[16:04] <Tm_T> apachelogger: arr, were you looking for kde3->kde4 migration solutions?
[16:04] <apachelogger> Tm_T: I guess so
[16:05] <Tm_T> roger, I'll be looking for that too I believe
[16:05] <Tm_T> not now but during summer if not earlier
[16:06] <jeroen-> nixternal / Riddell : that was indeed the solution
[16:06] <apachelogger> the thing is, we ship KDE 4 in hardy :P
[16:06] <jeroen-> I assume that will be fixed
[16:07] <Riddell> jeroen-: its very strange, can't think what would cause it
[16:08] <jeroen-> Riddell: my hostname was not in /etc/hosts
[16:08] <\sh> jeroen-: what was inside?
[16:08] <Riddell> jeroen-: right but it must have been before so something in the upgrade broke it
[16:08] <jeroen-> the hosts file?
[16:09] <jeroen-> Riddell: maybe I've deleted it
[16:09] <\sh> jeroen-: jepp
[16:09] <jeroen-> \sh: the usual stuff
[16:09] <jeroen-> with localhost, but not my hostname
[16:09] <jeroen-> Riddell: so maybe I removed it a long time ago, but sudo didn't check that
[16:09] <\sh> jeroen-: you need <IP_ADDRESS> localhost , <IP_ADDRESS> <hostname from dhcp or from other source.fqdn> <short hostname> and some ipv6 stuff
[16:10] <nixternal> jeroen-: glad that worked :)
[16:10] <nixternal> ScottK2: hahaha, I didn't even notice the first comment in there..that is a good one :)
[16:10] <jeroen-> \sh: I had <IP_ADDRESS> localhost ; some unneeded ipv6 stuff and some custom external hostnames
[16:11] <jeroen-> so I removed the ipv6 stuff and <IP_ADDRESS> k-uptown
[16:11] <jeroen-> added <IP_ADDRESS> k-uptown I mean
[16:11] <\sh> jeroen-: why? <IP_ADDRESS> is localhost <whatever you name it additionally>
[16:12] <\sh> jeroen-: and when sudo complains about k-uptown, it has something inside which checks against k-uptown..
[16:12] <\sh> jeroen-: please check /etc/sudoers too
[16:13] <jeroen-> \sh: oh wait I sgould use <IP_ADDRESS> for k-uptown, according another machine I admin
[16:13] <\sh> jeroen-: correct...but what's bugging me is sudo...when sudo asks about k-uptown, could it be you add a sudo rule which included a hostname?
[16:14] <Riddell> \sh: sudo always wants to know the hostname
[16:14] <Riddell> breaks it in chroots
[16:15] <jeroen-> \sh: not that I am aware off, I just do sudo ; and the /etc/sudoers does not include my name, but the %admin group - if I'n right I am a member of that group
[16:16] <jeroen-> yes I am
[16:16] <jeroen-> off course
[16:17] <jeroen-> Riddell: so a solution should be to check if /etc/hostname is also in /ewtc/hosts and if not add it
[16:19] <jeroen-> I also have two firewall now :-)
[16:19] <jeroen-> ufw and firestarter
[16:19] <jeroen-> mmmh
[16:19] <\sh> Riddell: yes...it wants A hostname, which needs to be the same in /etc/hosts for <IP_ADDRESS> and /etc/hostname (the short host without fqdn)
[16:20] <\sh> funpart is now to determine the bugger who is corrupting /etc/hosts ;)
[16:20] <jeroen-> \sh: that would be me :-)
[16:22] <jeroen-> another minor thing
[16:22] <jeroen-> gtkqt is not used when starting gtk-apps as root
[16:24] <ScottK2> \sh: Then there's Bug #8980 which may or may not relate.
[16:24] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 8980 in netcfg "hostname -f does not return a proper FQDN" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/8980
[16:28] <\sh> ScottK2: now it's getting interesting .)
[16:28] <\sh> ScottK2: I'm on wired ethernet, and get my hostname + ip from dhcp..
[16:28] <\sh> ScottK2: my /etc/hosts looks like: <IP_ADDRESS>	localhost
[16:28] <\sh> <IP_ADDRESS>	wz-pc-006.intern.netviewer.de	wz-pc-006
[16:29] <\sh> my /etc/hostname is the shorthostname (wz-pc-006) , hostname -f gives me the fqdn
[16:29] <\sh> I don't have any reference of the official ip of my NIC in /etc/hosts
[16:29] <ScottK2> I just get the short hostname with hostname -f
[16:30] <\sh> hardy?
[16:30] <ScottK2> Gutsy.
[16:30] <\sh> aha
[16:30] <comm_a_nder> same here
[16:30] <ScottK2> Let me check the Hardy one.
[16:30] <ScottK2> Hardy is the same.
[16:31] <\sh> ScottK2: what's written in /etc/hosts for you on gutsy (well, I can check it this evening)
[16:32] <\sh> ScottK2: hmmm...what could happen is, that the dhcp request didn't deliver the fqdn and something is adjusting /etc/hosts to the short name (happens with sloppy configured dhcpds)
[16:32] <ScottK2> \sh: <IP_ADDRESS>       localhost and <IP_ADDRESS>       KTS-D430, hostname -f returns  KTS-D430
[16:32] <\sh> which is the correct behaviour
[16:32]  * ScottK2 has also seen 8980 on boxen with static IP
[16:32] <\sh> you don't have a FQDN...just the short hostname
[16:33] <ScottK2> Right.
[16:33] <jeroen-> fyi: I have a static ip
[16:33] <\sh> what happens if you set <IP_ADDRESS> KTS-D430.testdomain.tld KTS-D430
[16:33]  * ScottK2 checks
[16:34] <ScottK2> That works - KTS-D430.testdomain.tld
[16:34] <\sh> correct
[16:34] <\sh> hostname works with the resolver lib :)
[16:34] <ScottK2> IIRC 8980 has to do with getting some odd /etc/hosts setups that aren't recognized.
[16:35] <\sh> if you set /etc/host.conf to order hosts,bind it checks hosts first, then configured nameserver for your fqdn
[16:35] <jeroen-> so what's good about qtcurve
[16:35] <jeroen-> has it some extra new features?
[16:36] <\sh> ScottK2: btw...today /etc/host.conf isn't used anymore, now we are using nsswitch.conf, and hosts entry says: hosts:          files mdns4_minimal [NOTFOUND=return] dns mdns4
[16:37] <\sh> which means: check /etc/hosts, check mdns, check dns, check mdns complete
[16:37] <\sh> so I think it's more a problem of a system which is not setup correctly, or not getting correct infos from dhcp or dns or whatever...or manually tweaked files, as we did in the past when dns was cryptic and /etc/hosts was the only name -> ip resolver
[16:37] <ScottK2> You forgot the step in there where mdns pounds the root name servers for .local.
[16:38] <ScottK2> For the static IP boxes I've had trouble with that on, however it was configured was done by the installer.
[16:38]  * ScottK2 is not a big mdns fan.  Broken by design.
[16:40] <jeroen-> only bigger problem now, is that Hardy right now is just partly translated (Dutch). I also assume that will solve itself.
[16:41] <\sh> ScottK2: hmm..avahi us only for service browsing...reading the conf it doesn't do anything, then service mdns requests...
[16:41] <\sh> s/us/uses/
[16:42] <ScottK2> \sh: How does mdns find stuff?
[16:43] <ScottK2> \sh: Makes dns query for .local which other mdns implementations respond to.  Also goes to the local DNS resolver, which knows nothing about a .local TLD (since it doesn't exist), and it gets passed (evntually) to a DNS root server.
[16:44] <\sh> ScottK2: that's what multicast dns is for...I wonder if they are using real mcast stuff ;)
[16:45] <ScottK2> If they'd just put mdns on a different port, all would be well.  It's overload the DNS port that's the fundamental problem.
[16:45] <ScottK2> mdns is not really DNS.
[16:45] <\sh> well, you can use DNS nowadays as a service browser too ;)
[16:46] <\sh> at least, this is how jabber works nowadays to determine some ports for xmpp services
[16:46] <ScottK2> IIRC that's done with proper srv records and so doesn't have the same architectural problems that mdns has.
[16:47] <\sh> ScottK2: correct :)
[16:47] <\sh> ScottK2: and reading now http://avahi.org/wiki/AvahiAndUnicastDotLocal it's quite interessting ;)
[16:53] <neversfelde|mobi> mhh, Upgrade Gutsy => Hardy via adept failed, but that may be a problem of virtualbox
[16:54] <\sh> can vbox now run hardy without not booting the kernel? ;)
[16:54] <nixternal> Riddell: was wondering when you would email the list of settings :)
[17:04] <\sh> ScottK2: the best solution is to disable avahi completly ;)
[17:04] <ScottK2> Agreed.  I would really prefer we didn't install it by default.  It's just wrong.
[17:05] <\sh> ScottK2: well, I think we got already overruled :(
[17:05] <ScottK2> Yeah.
[17:06] <Riddell> neversfelde|mobi: what went wrong?
[17:06] <\sh> ScottK2: and I was surprised, when I saw in rhythmbox the last time, my music collection from my other desktop ;)
[17:06] <neversfelde|mobi> Riddell: a restart failed, I will do it a second time
[17:07] <Riddell> neversfelde|mobi: oh, that's not so bad then
[17:08] <neversfelde|mobi> but the upgrade is not really finished
[17:11] <Riddell> neversfelde|mobi: how did you try to restart?
[17:11] <neversfelde|mobi> Riddell: vbox freezed, I had to turn of the virtual machine
[17:12] <neversfelde|mobi> last message was "restarting"
[17:12] <\sh> apachelogger: is there a jamendo plugin planned?
[17:13] <apachelogger> \sh: for amarok?
[17:14] <\sh> apachelogger: sure...
[17:14] <apachelogger> \sh: http://amarok.kde.org/blog/archives/514-Jamendo-downloads-now-working.html
[17:15] <\sh> apachelogger: hmmm..and where can I find the tab (kubuntu)?
[17:15] <\sh> apachelogger: I see magantune...but no jamendo
[17:17] <smarter> \sh: amarok2
[17:17] <\sh> grmpf
[17:17] <\sh> apt-get install amarok2
[17:17] <\sh> no package named amarok2
[17:17] <\sh> ,)
[17:18] <smarter> \sh: there's a secret PPA repository somewhere (:
[17:18] <comm_a_nder> in bielefeld?
[17:18] <smarter> but for gutsy only iirc
[17:19] <\sh> comm_a_nder: bielefeld or gütersloh...I'm not sure ;)
[17:19] <apachelogger> nah, someone also uploaded it to hardy :P
[17:19] <smarter> apachelogger: O RLY?
[17:19] <comm_a_nder> but instead of bielefeld gütersloh really exists *g*
[17:19] <smarter> great
[17:19] <smarter> apachelogger: but doesn't it needs Qt 4.4 now?
[17:20] <\sh> comm_a_nder: not really...it's mohn town ;)
[17:20] <apachelogger> yeah, but the package is only tp1
[17:20] <\sh> even the name tells us: haluzination
[17:21] <apachelogger> hm dapper->hardy didn't work all that well
[17:21]  * apachelogger is wondering why
[17:27] <apachelogger> oh
[17:27] <apachelogger> another cool thing, gutsy-updates made xen uninstallable
[17:28] <apachelogger> hm, even better, synaptic is just stupid -.-
[17:30] <smarter> apachelogger: uninstallable?
[17:30] <apachelogger> smarter: un-installable
[17:30] <apachelogger> woah, that word is strange :P
[17:31] <smarter> and what do you say when you can't uninstall something? (:
[17:31]  * apachelogger slaps virtualbox
[17:31] <apachelogger> ununinstallable
[17:31] <apachelogger> ok
[17:32] <apachelogger> my upgrade wasn't the most sucessful one
[17:32] <apachelogger> I guess vbox is responsible
[17:33] <apachelogger> blueyed: what is the background fix doing for gtk-qt?
[17:34] <blueyed> apachelogger: background fix?
[17:34] <blueyed> apachelogger: I'll have to change virtualbox.. has it installed the -386 kernel for you?
[17:35] <apachelogger> woah, there goes kwin
[17:35] <apachelogger> :S
[17:35] <apachelogger> blueyed: kubuntu_01_background_fix.diff
[17:35] <apachelogger> yes it installed -386
[17:36] <blueyed> apachelogger: that patch isn't from me.
[17:38] <blueyed> apachelogger: Seems to come from 0.60-1.1ubuntu1.. probably obsolete?
[17:38] <apachelogger> yes
[17:38]  * apachelogger nukes it
[17:50] <apachelogger> blueyed: if you want to give it a revu: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=gtk-qt-engine-kde4
[17:59] <jussi01> apachelogger: svn hardy build of quassel in my ppa if you are interested
[18:00] <apachelogger> cool
[18:01] <jussi01> I used your /debian folder
[18:02]  * smarter_ has now more PPA than regular repository in his sources.list
[18:02] <smarter_> that'll probably explodes to my face someday
[18:02] <kristjan_> will this ugly bug make it into hardy? https://bugs.launchpad.net/kdebase/+bug/198362
[18:02] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 198362 in kdebase-workspace "[KDE4] Upgrade to 4.0.2. -> Panel is not displayed properly" [Low,Confirmed]
[18:02] <apachelogger> kristjan_: we usually don't introduce bugs, we fix them :P
[18:03] <smarter_> we're in feature freeze, we can't add new features but new bugs are welcome :}
[18:03] <apachelogger> jussi01: interesting version number ;-)
[18:03] <kristjan_> rephrased: are you sure you will fix it before hardy release?
[18:03] <jussi01> apachelogger: was that incorrect?
[18:03] <apachelogger> kristjan_: no
[18:03] <apachelogger> kde will though
[18:03] <apachelogger> or maybe not
[18:04] <jeroen-> me doesn't like the colored scroll bars
[18:04] <kristjan_> it's really ugly bug :-(
[18:04] <apachelogger> IIRC that problem is caused by Qt 4.3
[18:04] <apachelogger> which means we can't do anything about it
[18:04] <apachelogger> especially since hacking on plasma will end in a big explosion with a possability of 90%
[18:04] <jeroen-> I didnt see a option to turn it off in qtcurve
[18:04] <jeroen-> so I moved bacj to polyester
[18:10] <apachelogger> jussi01: technically, yes, but better than breaking something :)
[18:11] <jussi01> apachelogger: hrmm, I didnt really adjust it, dch -i did ;)
[18:11] <apachelogger> fair enough
[18:11] <jjesse_> anyone following March Madness and the NCAA tournement?
[18:12] <jjesse_> i'm enjoying the ability to watch any game on cbs
[18:12]  * apachelogger wonders where jpatrick is
[18:13] <kristjan_> Riddell: can you please change the status of this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdebase/+bug/18451 to "no fix yet or something" [gutsy does adapt user theme, but this ability is gone after you choose to update 7.10]
[18:13] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 18451 in kdebase "Administrator mode should adapt to QT theme" [Wishlist,Fix released]
[18:15] <kristjan_> (I guess changing it back to "confirmed" would be good choice)
[18:17] <apachelogger> uah
[18:17] <apachelogger> QT
[18:18] <Riddell> davmor2: http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/3338
[18:19] <Riddell> kristjan_: poke Tonio_ with that one
[18:20] <kristjan_> Tonio_: can you please change the status of bug18451 back to "confirmed" - the fix only works if you choose to not update gutsy
[18:23] <yuriy> happy hug day everyone! https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UbuntuBugDay/20080320/KDE
[18:29] <kristjan_> what happened to blue tentacles kdm screen, was it put aside for release candidate or it got removed permanently?
[18:30] <Riddell> kdm-kde4 needed changes on the live CD that'll be done after beta
[18:31] <yuriy> is the live cd using kdm-kde4 now? it was kdm-kde3 in alpha 6, right?
[18:31] <kristjan_> yuriy: still kde3 one
[18:33] <davmor2> Riddell: Nice and your still likely to get skinned alive subrub of Birmingham my arse ;)
[18:35] <gribelu> now that we have gtk-qt-engine-kde4 someone should invent qt3-qt4-engine-kde4
[18:36] <smarter> gt-qt4-engine is in the repo?
[18:36] <smarter> great
[18:39] <kristjan_> bespin style looks broken, or the menus are supposed to be black?
[18:43] <kristjan_> nevermind, it's supposed to be like this
[18:45] <Tonio_> kristjan_: kdesu/kesudo will no longuer use the user's theme since that requires to bind the root home to the user's
[18:46] <Tonio_> kristjan_: that's BAD since when you write file they are UID root and then the user cannot write on them
[18:46] <Tonio_> kristjan_: basically, what we have is what we want to have, there is no better option
[18:46] <kristjan_> Tonio_: why mark it "fix released" then? mark "invalid" or something
[18:46] <Tonio_> kristjan_: because is was fix released for some time
[18:47] <Tonio_> kristjan_: thn we saw the issue doing that way and there was another bug
[18:47] <Tonio_> so yes, the status changed, should now be won't fix
[18:47] <kristjan_> Tonio_: please do it then ;-)
[18:47] <Tonio_> kristjan_: just that we cannot remember of all bugs previously closed when we change something :)
[18:47] <Riddell> yuriy: that hug day page doesn't say what irc channel is used
[18:48] <kristjan_> Tonio_: one more question - how come ubuntu manages to integrate synaptic then?
[18:49] <Riddell> yuriy: http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/3340
[18:50] <Tonio_> kristjan_: afaik, gksudo doesn't use the user's home, it does the way we do, am I wrong on that point ?
[18:51] <Tonio_> kristjan_:
[18:51] <Tonio_> % gksudo env | grep HOME                                                                                [0.08 0.14 - 35% 3%]
[18:51] <Tonio_> HOME=/root
[18:51] <Tonio_> kristjan_: confirmed, it'll not use the user's profile, for the same reasons we don't
[18:52] <kristjan_> Tonio_: to avoid any confusion, I'm not hacker. I'm just here because that bug status does bother me.
[18:52] <Tonio_> kristjan_: sure
[18:52] <yuriy> Riddell: actually it does mention it, but generally the Ubuntu page doesn't so I haven't been putting it on there. maybe i should.
[18:52] <kristjan_> Tonio_: last time I played around in gnome, it did adapt my gtk style, but only the one that was installed system wide
[18:52] <Tonio_> kristjan_: to make it simple : ubuntu doesn't do any better with gnome than what we do with kde
[18:53] <Tonio_> kristjan_: I should test to confirm it does....
[18:53] <kristjan_> Tonio_: I could reboot and test it
[18:54] <Tonio_> kristjan_: afaics, as long as the home in use is /home, changing the user's prefs concerning the theme shouldn't work
[18:54] <Tonio_> kristjan_: please do :)
[18:54] <kristjan_> Tonio_: so don't disconnect yet
[18:54] <Tonio_> kristjan_: I have to go but you can ping me by email
[18:54] <Tonio_> I have a train to get.....
[18:54] <Tonio_> Riddell: can you say him I really had to go ? ;)
[18:54] <Riddell> ok
[18:55] <Tonio_> Riddell: thanks
[18:57] <Tonio_> Riddell: please tell him I'll be there tomorrow all the day
[18:57] <Tonio_> contrib day ;)
[19:00] <kristjan_> did tonia_ say something?
[19:00] <kristjan_> I asked him not to leave
[19:00] <Riddell> 18:54 < Tonio_> I have a train to get.....
[19:00] <Riddell> 18:54 < Tonio_> Riddell: can you say him I really had to go ? ;)
[19:01] <kristjan_> Riddell: too bad, can I leave a message him?
[19:01] <Riddell> kristjan_: e-mail<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[19:02] <kristjan_> ok thanks
[19:10] <afiestas> Riddell what version I need use to test the bugs in the "hug day" ? I have an updated alpha6 because I don't found the beta images :/
[19:11] <Riddell> yuriy: ^^
[19:11] <Riddell> afiestas: updated alpha 6 should be fine
[19:12] <afiestas> ok :p
[19:26] <Riddell> ryanakca: so, website, what's the status?
[19:27] <_StefanS_> evening
[19:28] <_StefanS_> Riddell: hey, what about that mail from Craig d. regarding qtcurve-gtk2? is it too late?
[19:29] <Riddell> _StefanS_: is he the qtcurve developer?
[19:30] <_StefanS_> Riddell: yup
[19:33] <Riddell> I think its too late for the gtk theme to be added
[19:33] <yuriy> afiestas: welcome :) feel free to ask me or others in #ubuntu-bugs if you have questions about triaging
[19:34] <_StefanS_> Riddell: ok then
[19:34] <_StefanS_> Riddell: too bad.
[19:34] <afiestas> yuriy ok, thanks, I'm just reinstalling the kubuntu alpha 6 in my other laptop  :)
[19:57] <jjesse> yay finally have vmware up and running in hardy now my machine is ready :)
[20:04] <dasKreech> :-)
[20:16] <jjesse> grumble why do i never remember what i need to set my ssh key for launchpad to?
[20:16] <nosrednaekim> Riddell: I added IPP printer support to system-config-printer-kde.... is it too late to get it into hardy?
[20:17] <seele> huh.. that's interesting
[20:17] <seele> apparently there was a grad student who did a usability study on ubiquity last spring around the same time i did
[20:18] <seele> unfortunately he didnt put his results anywhere we would find them, but he did just send me his thesis
[20:19] <dasKreech> That's kinda random
[20:20] <dasKreech> Though I guess starting season if usability now would prompt that
[20:20] <seele> no.. he found my article in the UPA Voice and followed it to my open source work
[20:21] <dasKreech> ok
[20:22] <seele> it
[20:22] <Riddell> nosrednaekim: ooh, rocking
[20:22] <seele> it's people like that we want to catch with the SoU tho
[20:22] <seele> they are interested in usability and open source but havent put it together yet, usually because they dont know how or its really hard to get involved
[20:22] <seele> so the SoU introduces them to a project, they work with a developer and usability engineer and have something to show for it at the end
[20:23] <seele> and many times they create a relationship with the project and continue to contribute
[20:23] <Riddell> seele: curious
[20:24] <seele> Riddell: at least in theory.  we haven't *really* had too many stick around afterwards :-/
[20:24] <seele> who wouldn't want to work with all you lovely people?!
[20:25]  * Riddell looks coy
[20:25] <seele> lol
[20:27] <Tm_T> Riddell: do you have short moment? I'm building my final application
[20:28] <Riddell> Tm_T: ok
[20:29] <Tm_T> http://www.tm-travolta.net/tekstit/coss-app-en.txt
[20:31] <dasKreech> seele: Hooray. Kmymoney is using your template :)
[20:31] <Tm_T> Riddell: it's work in progress so good time for you to throw ideas and what you would love to see there
[20:32] <blueyed> "Charset" in kubuntu-konqueror-shortcuts/searchproviders desktop files is also deprecated, isn't it? (it's set to empty for all)
[20:33] <nosrednaekim> Tm_T: what org are you applying to?
[20:33] <dasKreech> now if we can convince the buggers to move to KDE4...
[20:33] <Tm_T> nosrednaekim: finnish org named COSS
[20:34] <seele> dasKreech: do you use KMyMoney?
[20:34] <dasKreech> Used
[20:34] <dasKreech> I'm running KDE4 Pure now
[20:34] <dasKreech> so not for a while
[20:34] <Tm_T> nosrednaekim: see www.coss.fi
[20:34] <dasKreech> I would like to use it again :)
[20:35]  * seele grumbles
[20:35] <seele> why does everyone think the iPhone has some great level of usability?
[20:35] <dasKreech> If it supported Flake stuff from koffice it could build charts from usage history which would be killer
[20:35] <dasKreech> seele: I'm sorry should I use it?
[20:35] <Riddell> Tm_T: "Ubuntu (GNOME) has migration tool, which will be a base for this project." that should be a bit stronger, its an extention to the same project to add KDE support, not a new project based on an old one
[20:35] <seele> dasKreech: i dunno.. i've never used it myself
[20:35] <Tm_T> Riddell: yes, true, should put weight on it
[20:35] <dasKreech> seele: They do? I thought it had novel usability which is quite different
[20:35] <dasKreech> seele: you'd scream
[20:36] <dasKreech> it's quite nice once you get used to it but it's a conundrum at the start
[20:36] <seele> dasKreech: it's the latest fad to cite the iPhone when talking about mobile technology usability
[20:36] <seele> probably makes nokia and nextel scream
[20:37] <Riddell> Tm_T: "backend and MS Windows side is mostly done" the KDE part of the backend isn't mostly done
[20:37] <Tm_T> Riddell: yup, true there, misworded once again :)
[20:37] <Tm_T> me brainfarting
[20:38] <Riddell> Tm_T: "Frontend will be based.." that paragraph should note that the frontend is part of ubiquity
[20:39] <Tm_T> heh :)
[20:39] <Tm_T> that's why I asked you to look it
[20:39] <Tm_T> always something I don't understand to say out clear
[20:40] <Riddell> Tm_T: "Information from Applicant" doesn't mention if you have any experience with pyqt or C
[20:40] <Riddell> Tm_T: pyKDE -> pyQt
[20:40] <Tm_T> true true
[20:41] <Tm_T> "Frontend will be done for Ubiquity Kubuntu installer, based to pyQt ..."
[20:42] <Tm_T> Riddell: F5 is your friend btw (I love kio)
[20:43] <Tm_T> ...though someone accidentally edited wrong file :--P
[20:43] <blueyed> Doesn't plasma use kubuntu-konqueror-shortcuts? (web shortcuts). I've killed and restarted it even.
[20:45] <Riddell> blueyed: alt-f2 probably should
[20:45] <blueyed> Riddell: no, that's what I've meant. Konqueror does..
[20:46] <Riddell> blueyed: maybe it doesn't then
 A fresh installation of kubuntu alpha6: knetworkmanager can't connect to my hidden wpa2 essid (with dhcp) (paste from #ubuntu-bugs)
[20:48] <blueyed> Riddell: yes, it doesn't use the others, too. What a pity.
[21:01]  * seele wonders if she scared Riddell away from the printing discussion
[21:04] <blueyed> Riddell: you have to restart krunner, then it works.
[21:09] <Riddell> seele: no, just had a shower.  but I am pretty confused by the whole thing
[21:10] <seele> that's ok.  youre clean now, i'm sure it will make sense soon :P
[21:10] <seele> TZ doesn't help by interjecting his opinion on something unrelated either
[21:12] <Riddell> seele: who is actually involved with this?
[21:12] <seele> Riddell: design-wise it is Peter Sikking, whatever apprentice he's suckered in, me, and Jan Muehlig
[21:13] <seele> Riddell: Josef is involved in the coding end of it, Christian Tiberna used to be, but I think he handed it off to Josef
[21:13] <seele> Riddell: no one is involved on the gnome side, even after poking them a few times
[21:13] <ryanakca> Riddell: sorry, haven't worked on it in the past week or so, but I'll try to get it done tonight and mail it off to you to review
[21:14] <seele> and a whole slew of other people involved in technical stuff i dont understand
[21:14] <Riddell> ryanakca: done as in done?
[21:14] <ryanakca> Riddell: Other than the download page, yes
[21:14] <ryanakca> Riddell: did you want one like ubuntu.com, or like we currently have?
[21:20] <jeroen-> mysql will not start anymore after upgrade
[21:21] <jeroen-> does anyone know how to get a verbose output somewhere?
[21:21] <ryanakca> jeroen-: #ubuntu+1 please
[21:27] <Riddell> ryanakca: the download page should be like ubuntu has
[21:27] <Riddell> seele: possibly impolite questions. this printer stuff has been going on for two years and the design isn't done, what's taken so long?
[21:34]  * seele coughs
[22:37] <apachelogger> I need a revu
[22:43] <jeroen-> got strange kdesudo thing
[22:43] <jeroen-> seems like a subscription :-(
[22:44] <jeroen-> cannot open display:
[22:44] <jeroen-> No protocol specified
[22:45] <jeroen-> the first time it works
[22:45] <jeroen-> the second time it fails
[22:45] <jeroen-> seems familiar
[22:45] <jeroen-> again: only with non-root users
[22:45] <Riddell> kdesudo.  complain to tonio
[22:46] <neversfelde|mobi> Riddell: second Upgrade 7.10 > 8.04 via adept worked perfectly
[22:46] <jeroen-> tonioooo
[22:46] <neversfelde|mobi> there is a feedback page for that, isn t it
[22:46] <Riddell> neversfelde|mobi: awooga
[22:47] <Riddell> neversfelde|mobi: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/upgrade/all
[22:48] <apachelogger> Riddell: do you have time to give http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=gtk-qt-engine-kde4 a revu?
[22:48] <neversfelde|mobi> :), shall I do another one?
[22:49] <Riddell> apachelogger: I could although it means I shouldn't then review it in New queue
[22:49] <apachelogger> yeah, I suspected that
[22:49]  * apachelogger points his sonic screwdriver @ blueyed's pc and makes it blink in sorts of colors
[22:54] <jeroen-> #204440
[22:54] <jeroen-> Bug #204440
[22:54] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 204440 in kdesudo "[hardy]: kdesudo as non-root user works only once" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/204440
[22:56] <neversfelde|mobi> is it necessary to test dapper > hardy upgrades?
[22:56] <jeroen-> neversfelde|mobi: I would say:yes
[22:57] <jeroen-> allthough it will only be on servers I assume
[22:57] <Riddell> neversfelde|mobi: preferable certainly.  and someone should document how its done for Kubuntu (installing update-manager then the normal ubuntu way)
[22:57] <emonkey> neversfelde|mobi, afaik there was a blog entry from \sh about that some time ago
[22:57] <emonkey> but he wrotes primarly about servers ...
[22:59] <neversfelde|mobi> ok, I will do some tests tomorrow, but does adept notice that it should upgrade to hardy and not to edgy?
[23:01] <neversfelde|mobi> anyway, its time to sleep. If I have questions I'll come back tomorrow
[23:01] <neversfelde|mobi> gn8
[23:12] <_StefanS_> Riddell: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/MainInclusionReportGtkEnginesQtCurve, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk2-engines-qtcurve/+bug/204443
[23:13] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 204443 in gtk2-engines-qtcurve "gtk2-engines-qtcurve inclusion to the main repository" [Undecided,New]
[23:14] <nixternal> OK, I am going to need a "hacking" project for this semester
[23:15] <nixternal> this class project is similar to a GSOC, however I have to create it from the ground up and run it as a MIS solution
[23:16] <Riddell> _StefanS_: step 1 complete :)
[23:16] <_StefanS_> Riddell: yup, I'm writing tonio at the moment, I hope he can fix that in k-d-s, else I'm going to take it tomorrow night.
[23:32] <jjesse> nixternal: sounds like fun
[23:36] <_StefanS_> night
[23:36] <ryanakca> Riddell: still awake? Did you want the whole story or just a teaser on the News page?
[23:36] <ryanakca> Teaser I'm assuming?
[23:37] <Riddell> ryanakca: umm, dunno, I've never seen the news page
[23:39] <ryanakca> Riddell: ok. I'll set it to teaser for now (just a quick resume, like we have now), and if we want to display the whole article down the road we can easily do that :)
[23:47] <Riddell> seaLne: fancy seeding some torrents with your mega bandwidth?
[23:55] <awen_> Riddell: regarding bug 145337 ... what about having g-p-m spawn a helper app that listens for the HAL button events and issues the dcop commands? (alternative solution if the keycode 212 just wont work)
[23:55] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 145337 in kdeutils "Brightness key stopped working after update [Gutsy]" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/145337
[23:57] <Riddell> awen_: hmm, cludgy
[23:58] <sahin_h> Has Kubuntu 8.04 beta released already? I would like to translate and publish the release note to Hungarian on http://ubuntu.hu
[23:59] <awen_> Riddell: furthermore it should work for more laptops, as not all uses the 101+212 keycodes
[23:59] <Riddell> seaLne: it's in the process of being released, notes are here https://wiki.kubuntu.org/HardyHeron/Beta/Kubuntu


[03:07] <qwhelan> Hi. In trying to fixing a U1 issue I was having, it seems I may have hosed my local couchdb. I tried apt-get purging, but it seems the bad database survived that. What do I need to do to get couchdb/desktopcouch back to a known state?
[08:05] <mandel> morning all
[09:00] <teknico> good morning
[09:20] <karni> Good morning!
[09:21] <karni> What a ... snowy and rainy day we have today here in the North of Poland.
[09:35] <pedronis> good morning all
[09:35] <karni> hi pedronis
[09:40] <karni> If a bug report is a duplicate, should I mark it as invalid as well, or just 'duplicate of..' and that's it ?
[09:40] <beuno> karni, duplicate of
[09:41] <karni> beuno: thanks
[09:58]  * fagan forgot to say morning
[09:58] <JamesTait> Buenos días a todos!
[09:59] <mandel> JamesTait: room mate, hello ;)
[10:00] <JamesTait> Hola mandel. :)
[10:00] <JamesTait> Que pasa?
[10:00] <mandel> JamesTait: ah, no esta nada mal, leegas a decir que pasa tronco y hubiera pensado que eres español :)
[10:01] <JamesTait> OK, you win. ;)
[10:01] <mandel> JamesTait: there is nothing bad in there, and google translate will be puzzled :)
[10:03] <JamesTait> Wow, yes, Google translate needs translating. :)
[10:03] <JamesTait> "ah, not bad, you get to say what happens trunk and Spanish would have thought that you"
[10:03] <beuno> JamesTait, be careful, though, mandel may not be the best person to learn spanish from!   :p
[10:03] <fagan> mandel: any new merges
[10:04] <JamesTait> beuno: I suspect mandel would teach me Spanish the same way my wife teaches me Afrikaans - all the bad words. ;)
[10:04] <mandel> beuno: buah! he will learn castellano, which is event better, podemos coger cosas :)
[10:04] <beuno> hahahaha
[10:05] <beuno> mandel, for extra fun, JamesTait will be in Buenos Aires in 3 weeks
[10:06] <JamesTait> For the second time. And I'm still waiting for one of you to teach me Spanish. ;)
[10:06] <mandel> JamesTait: do ask the following: Perdón, donde se coge el autobus para ir a la playa? Quiero recoger conchas para mi hijo
[10:07] <mandel> al niño le encantan todo tipo de conchas!!!
[10:07] <mandel> which is perfectly polite spanish :)
[10:07] <JamesTait> Something about a bus and a beach. :)
[10:07] <beuno> ...and I will film that from a decent distance
[10:07] <mandel> fagan: no mergers ready, I mean that you can review, lp is read only
[10:08] <fagan> awh
[10:08] <beuno> JamesTait, you will soon learn that certain words in Spain mean _totally_ different things in Argentina
[10:08] <JamesTait> beuno: This does not surprise me in the least. :)
[10:09] <fagan> well English is different in other countries too
[10:09] <mandel> JamesTait: and for some strange reason, it is always something sexual
[10:09] <JamesTait> fagan: Exactly. There are some quite shocking, if amusing differences in meaning across the pond. :)
[10:09] <fagan> Like there are lots of words used in America that have completely weird meanings over here
[10:10] <JamesTait> mandel: Yeah, all the examples that are coming to mind at the moment are somehow sexual! Funny, that!
[10:10] <mandel> JamesTait: a poor guy from the canary islands said: Voy a coger la guagua, which is terrible in Peru for some reason…
[10:11] <mandel> goes from I'm going to take de bus to 'm going to fuck the baby...
[10:13] <mandel> fagan: lp is back can you look at: https://code.launchpad.net/~mandel/ubuntu-sso-client/cannot_shutdown_windows/+merge/59833
[10:14] <fagan> mandel: sure
[10:14] <mandel> fagan: and https://code.launchpad.net/~mandel/ubuntu-sso-client/cannot_start_windows/+merge/59848
[10:14] <fagan> cool
[10:18] <mandel> beuno: will you be at UDS?
[10:18] <beuno> mandel, I will
[10:18] <beuno> I'm here for this week and next
[10:19] <mandel> beuno: oh, yes the some hand (or what ever the name is)
[10:19] <beuno> right, "canonical summit"
[10:24] <karni> mandel: haha, "some hands" as opposed to "all hands" ;D?
[10:24] <beuno> karni, that is exactly iy
[10:24] <beuno> when the whole company gets together, it's some hands
[10:25] <beuno> er, all hands
[10:25] <beuno> when only part of it, some hands  :)
[10:25] <karni> yeah =)
[10:25] <karni> heheh
[10:25] <fagan> beuno: but even then there are always people missing
[10:25] <beuno> fagan, from all hands?
[10:26] <fagan> yeah there couldnt be everyone
[10:27] <beuno> fagan, well, I think for the last all hands we had everyone in the company
[10:28] <mandel> fagan: all hands != UDS
[10:28] <fagan> beuno: hmmmm I just would have thought they would miss at least 10
[10:29] <fagan> in terms of something always comes up
[10:29] <mandel> of course, always some one will be missing
[10:29] <fagan> mandel: I know :)
[10:29] <beuno> I don't remember anyone missing, but it could of been
[10:29] <fagan> beuno: maybe it was no one that you would miss
[10:29] <beuno> maybe we should rename it to "all hands (that care enough to show up)"
[10:30] <fagan> well "all hands (that are needed there)"
[10:30] <karni> fagan: how would you know, have you evern been to all hands already? :)
[10:30] <fagan> karni: nope im just guessing
[10:31] <fagan> :D
[10:31] <karni> fagan: naturally somebody might not come due to personal or company issues, but the point is, everyone should come.
[10:31] <fagan> But I have a tendency to get guesses like that right. (doesnt work with programming though)
[10:32] <fagan> karni: that was the reason why I said it cant be "all hands" :D
[10:32] <mandel> no, there are feet and ears too
[10:32] <fagan> mandel: boooooo
[10:32] <karni> fagan: but it's supposed and expected to be all hands. would you say "my software is broke" only because it *may* contain a bug :P?
[10:33] <fagan> karni: well all software is broken because every software has bugs and things to improve upon
[10:33] <karni> fagan: you're a pessimist, right?
[10:33] <fagan> just varying levels of broken
[10:33] <mandel> no, yacc is finished
[10:33] <fagan> karni: realist
[10:34] <karni> fagan: software quality scale: just a little broke, some broke, broke, broke as fsck ;d ?
[10:34] <karni> fagan: then face it, in reality - it's called "all hands" ;D heheh
[10:34] <fagan> karni: exactly
[10:35] <karni> fagan: all right, I'm going back to my "some broke" software ;)
[10:35] <fagan> karni: ha have fun
[10:35] <karni> fagan: thanks
[10:35] <mandel> karni, fagan: so you too are telling me that 'print "hello world"' is broken software?
[10:35] <karni> mandel: yes it is! who knows if the libraries aren't "broke as fsck"  ;)
[10:37] <mandel> karni: no, that software is correct, the axioms (libs working) on which it stands imply it
[10:37] <mandel> lets asusmer we are talking about maths, would you say that 1+1 is broken?
[10:37] <fagan> mandel: well anything with <200 lines of code isnt really in the same light as something higher than that
[10:37] <karni> mandel: that was irony, I'm not the pessimist here ;)
[10:38] <fagan> there can always be improvements made to larger projects than that
[10:38] <mandel> karni: I kind of like this dicsussions
[10:38] <karni> fagan: with that I don't agree. it can be equally broke as fsck like a 30000 line software. just poor quality 200 lines of code.
[10:38] <karni> mandel: :)
[10:38] <fagan> karni: yeah
[10:40] <mandel> print 'Helo world!'
[10:40] <fagan> oh and your 1+1 code can be improved upon mandel by writing it in assembly
[10:40] <mandel> A one liner with a bug :)
[10:40] <fagan> mandel: no \n
[10:41] <fagan> and l
[10:41] <fagan> :D
[10:41] <mandel> fagan: I was talking about arithmetics, not coding
[10:41] <mandel> fagan: and print already adds de \n
[10:41] <fagan> mandel: and spelling
[10:41] <fagan> mandel: yeah but im a C programmer I want to see a \n
[10:42] <karni> this is such a waste of time ;] ;P
[10:42] <mandel> mandel: there there would be another hidden char missing
[10:42] <mandel> he I talked to my self, classy
[10:42] <fagan> mandel: hah
[10:42] <karni> mandel: :D
[10:42] <karni> hahaha
[10:42] <fagan> fagan: you do know your right
[10:43] <karni> now that was funny :)
[10:43] <fagan> This entire conversation is quotable on the wiki
[11:20]  * fagan wonders if lp is back up yet
[11:25] <mandel> fagan: I have been working with it no problem
[11:25] <fagan> mandel: sweet ill do your merges then
[11:26] <fagan> mandel: is just a code review ok for the cannot start windows branch
[11:27] <fagan> you didnt provide the test infi
[11:27] <fagan> info
[11:27] <mandel> fagan: well, those bits have no tests...
[11:27] <fagan> well I read down through the code and its ok
[11:28] <mandel> fagan: they are the scripts that start the service, so kinda ahrd...
[11:28] <mandel> hard*
[11:28] <mandel> there is always some part you cannot cover :(
[11:28] <fagan> +1 anyway its fine for code review
[11:28] <fagan> oh both are like that
[11:31] <fagan> ok both approved
[11:31] <fagan> just on code review
[11:33] <mandel> fagan: cool, give me some mins and I'll send yet another one :)
[11:34] <mandel> with tests
[11:34] <fagan> hah
[11:40] <mandel> fagan: what was the name of the pacakge to install so that the ui would not appear in the sso tests?
[11:41] <fagan> mandel: em something starting with an x :D
[11:41] <fagan> ill go find it
[11:41] <mandel> hehehe the x I did guess too :)
[11:42] <fagan> mandel: xvfb
[11:43] <mandel> fagan: superb, thx!
[11:49] <mandel> fagan: here is the new one: https://code.launchpad.net/~mandel/ubuntu-sso-client/fix_signals_emition/+merge/59898
[11:49] <fagan> mandel: I have to pop off for a little sec ill get to it when I get back
[11:50] <mandel> fagan: np
[12:26]  * fagan needs to catch up with payroll for 10 minutes brb
[12:41] <fagan> oki done with that ill get onto that merge in 15 taking a break
[13:51] <mandel> guys, one question, do we have a stand up today?
[13:53] <thisfred> probably
[13:54] <mandel> ok
[14:00] <fagan> me?
[14:01] <fagan> how many are here?
[14:01] <fagan> dobey, thisfred, mandel
[14:02] <fagan> think thats it
[14:02] <mandel> me
[14:02] <thisfred> me
[14:03] <fagan> ill just go and dobey can do his when he notices
[14:03] <fagan> DONE
[14:03] <fagan> * did 2 merge requests from mandel
[14:03] <fagan> * did some nice notes on the sessions at UDS
[14:03] <fagan> * checked up on payroll to see whats going on
[14:03] <fagan> TODO
[14:03] <fagan> * do some more merges
[14:03] <fagan> Blocked
[14:03] <fagan> * nope
[14:03] <fagan> mandel:
[14:03] <fagan> gogo
[14:03] <mandel> DONE: Performed my partially succeful sync with sd on windows. Found bug that I'm currently fixing but the thing kind of 'works'
[14:03] <mandel> TODO: More small fixing, py2exe, throw at people.
[14:03] <mandel> BLOCKED: no
[14:03] <mandel> thisfred, please
[14:03] <thisfred> DONE: nothing much, packaging exercises TODO: might look into packaging playdar so it'll be easier to install and test BLOCKED: no
[14:04] <fagan> congrats mandel
[14:04] <fagan> :)
[14:04] <fagan> (on getting it working)
[14:05] <mandel> yes, we are getting there, lots of tiny bug, but we are there
[14:05] <fagan> go team go :D
[14:07] <mandel> thisfred: is that .deb what you are doing?
[14:08] <thisfred> mandel: yeah packaging in my own ppa
[14:08] <fagan> mandel: that sso branch has some failures
[14:08] <fagan> :/
[14:08] <mandel> thisfred: cool
[14:08] <fagan> 14 I cant remember if that is normal or not
[14:08] <mandel> fagan: pastebin please
[14:09] <mandel> fagan: if it complains that the reactor is unclean might be because the windows socket takes to long to clean
[14:09] <thisfred> mandel: nessita taught me how. It's not that hard for python projects. Of course playdar isn't so I'm gonna have to figure stuff out
[14:10] <mandel> thisfred: I'll pick you brain at UDS I should learn this things :)
[14:10] <fagan> mandel: http://paste.ubuntu.com/603261
[14:10] <thisfred> mandel: sure
[14:11] <thisfred> mandel I'll mail you the packaging howto nessita wrote, so we have it there
[14:11] <mandel> fagan: can yu import pykeyring?
[14:11]  * fagan looks
[14:12] <mandel> import keyring
[14:12] <mandel> thisfred: superb, that way I'll do something while in the plain
[14:12] <mandel> although this time for me is 'close'
[14:12] <fagan> mandel: nope
[14:12] <fagan> cant
[14:12] <thisfred> the rain in spain stays mainly in the plain
[14:13] <alecu> hello. Sorry I'm late.
[14:13] <thisfred> hi alecu
[14:13] <mandel> fagan: then you have to install it :)
[14:13] <mandel> alecu: we hate you for that ;)
[14:13] <fagan> alecu: its cool only 4 of us anyway
[14:13] <alecu> did we have a standup?
[14:14] <mandel> thisfred: hehe, I dont know what my brain was thinking, probably in spanish, such an easy lang to write
[14:14] <thisfred> sí
[14:14] <fagan> alecu: yep
[14:14] <mandel> alecu: yes, but you can do your part if you please :)
[14:15] <fagan> mandel: passed and approved
[14:15] <mandel> thisfred: can I ask you a favour, I cannot find in spain that clicker thing you used to train your dog, would it be hard to bring me one?
[14:15] <mandel> fagan: sweet
[14:16] <thisfred> mandel: If I get to a pet store before saturday I will
[14:16] <thisfred> or else I'll give you mine
[14:16] <fagan> did any of you look at any of my notes that I posted on ubunet?
[14:16] <mandel> thisfred: thank you very much!!!
[14:17]  * fagan is wondering if there is any feedback
[14:17] <mandel> fagan: which notes?
[14:17] <mandel> fagan: I was in the classroom if that is it
[14:17] <fagan> mandel: I posed a load of docs onto ubunet that I wrote up yesterday
[14:17] <fagan> I just was doing some thoughts on UDS sessions
[14:17] <fagan> there was a couple of pretty long ones
[14:18] <dobey> λ DONE: mostly fixed bug #566292 and bug #746592 pointlessly
[14:18] <dobey> λ TODO: finish fixing up the nightlies builds
[14:18] <dobey> λ BLCK: None.
[14:18] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 566292 in ubuntuone-music-store "Show fewer pages at a time on the My Downloads page (affects: 3) (dups: 1) (heat: 8)" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/566292
[14:18] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 746592 in libubuntuone (Ubuntu) (and 2 other projects) "Many songs in My Downloads can block UI (affects: 3) (dups: 1) (heat: 22)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/746592
[14:18] <fagan> I did one about the music store, shotwell plugin and u1-people
[14:19] <fagan> The music store one was about navigation and suggestion of songs to buy
[14:19] <fagan> ...etc
[14:20] <mandel> fagan: I cannot find them
[14:20] <fagan> mandel: ill pm them
[14:21] <fagan> mandel: are you sure it wasnt posted on the ML?
[14:22] <mandel> fagan: not that I saw them
[14:22] <fagan> If so that explains why no one commented
[14:22]  * fagan checks gmail
[14:22] <dobey> i don't talk about private mailing lists in public places :)
[14:22] <fagan> yeah its definitely there
[14:23] <fagan> dobey: well they are just notes
[14:23] <fagan> I dont mind putting them in public but would prefer not to be discussing why I dont like the music store at the moment in public :/
[14:24] <fagan> just not to get peoples hopes up for a reboot
[14:24] <fagan> (just in case)
[14:25] <fagan> since im still not long here I dont know what the story is on some of the public private talky bits
[14:26] <fagan> so better safe than sorry
[14:27] <fagan> oooh that would be a good one for my first post about what I learned so far
[14:28] <fagan> Ask mark starts in a half hour
[14:28] <fagan> always very interesting
[14:32] <fagan> mandel: I see another merge
[14:32] <fagan> :D
[14:33] <mandel> fagan: certainly
[14:48] <dobey> man this weather sucks
[14:49] <fagan> yaeh
[14:49] <fagan> s/yaeh/yeah
[14:50] <fagan> 10 minutes till ask mark in #ubuntu-classroom
[15:08] <fagan> Ask mark in #ubuntu-classroom at the moment just in case anyone isnt there :)
[16:01] <fagan> dobey: dont use tracker for the service
[16:01] <fagan> it would be 100x more sucessful if you did a quick dbus api for it
[16:02] <mandel> fagan: shall we ask him why they make me work on windows ;)
[16:02] <dobey> fagan: do you have some valid reason for that
[16:02] <dobey> mandel: ask who?
[16:03] <fagan> dobey: well for 1 it would be easier for mandel to port
[16:03] <fagan> hah
[16:03] <dobey> no it wouldn't
[16:04] <fagan> dobey: 2 if you wanted that service on the disk to provide the search to unity you cant use tracker
[16:04] <mandel> dobey: mark, refering to fagans mention about u-clarrom
[16:04] <dobey> fagan: you are making no sense
[16:04] <dobey> mandel: the ask mark thing is over with now
[16:04] <mandel> meh
[16:05] <fagan> dobey: the service is for allowing queries of what songs are available correct?
[16:05] <dobey> no
[16:05] <fagan> ooooh
[16:06] <fagan> damn im an idiot but still ill stick by my point and say dont use tracker
[16:06] <dobey> you are just hating on tracker for no good reason, is all
[16:06] <mandel> fagan: is there a reason
[16:06] <mandel> haha, both more or less saying the same :P
[16:08] <fagan> well there is a few reasons why tracker isnt being used today in Ubuntu by default and they are its big its overly complicated for simple tasks and most importantly it has major memory leaks even now
[16:09] <fagan> dobey: the reason why im saying dont use tracker is simply because it wouldnt take a very long time to write our own dbus service that indexes the songs and have it completely reliable and maintainable
[16:09] <dobey> tracker isn't being used today for purely historical reasons
[16:10] <dobey> and people spreading false information, like you are now
[16:10] <mandel> in FOSS you should reuse, if is meant to do the job like we want it, but has memory leaks, we should fix it, not reinvent the wheel
[16:10] <mandel> except for dbus on Windows, I'm not fixing that
[16:11] <dobey> mandel: windows is a whole other set of insane issues for stuff like this
[16:11] <dobey> mandel: unless we're going to start shipping banshee on windows for our media integration point, i'd say don't worry about it
[16:12] <fagan> dobey: cant we plug the zeitgeist full text search or something instead and actually use whats shipped in the desktop already
[16:12] <mandel> dobey: yes, I dont worry about windows, if they ask more than I can do, well they wont get it :)
[16:12] <dobey> zeitgeist is not a search service
[16:13] <fagan> dobey: it has a search built in and thats what unity is using for the most part
[16:13] <dobey> no it isn't
[16:14] <mandel> dobey: can you elaborate?
[16:14] <fagan> dobey: zeitgeist-extension-fts in the repo and installed by default in ubuntu
[16:14] <dobey> unity doesn't do search, and neither does zeitgeist
[16:15] <dobey> zeitgeist does not index your data
[16:15] <dobey> zeitgeist only searches for things you've physically looked at previously on the machine
[16:15] <fagan> dobey: it stores logs of activity but if you log enough activity you get all of the data
[16:16] <dobey> fagan: so it's basically entirely useless
[16:16] <fagan> dobey: not really
[16:16] <dobey> zg stores history
[16:16] <dobey> that's it
[16:16] <dobey> yes really
[16:17] <fagan> if you are on a new install of Ubuntu and zeitgeist is installed it will know about everything that is on your computer
[16:17] <dobey> why should i have to go and actually open *ALL* of the files on my computer, to be able to search them?
[16:17] <dobey> no it won't
[16:17] <fagan> no just the users files
[16:17] <fagan> which is what we are dealing with
[16:17] <dobey> no
[16:17] <fagan> im just saying we should be using the same thing that unity is plugging for its search that is in the dash
[16:18] <dobey> please stop saying things that aren't true
[16:18] <fagan> dobey: can I bring someone in who knows more than both of us about this?
[16:19] <fagan> ok he is coming
[16:19] <dobey> who? manish?
[16:19] <fagan> dobey: seif
[16:19] <seiflotfy> yo
[16:19] <fagan> hey dude
[16:20] <fagan> seiflotfy: could you explain how the fts extension works with unity
[16:20] <fagan> im wondering how we can not use tracker for a music discovery service for u1
[16:20] <dobey> whatever, i am going to lunch
[16:22] <mandel> seiflotfy: would be interesting to here the point of using ze* (bloody german word) and tracker
[16:22] <seiflotfy> fagan, tracker does nothing else than add a a montior on  the harddisk on "Music" director
[16:22] <seiflotfy> it doesnt really scan your harddisk
[16:22] <seiflotfy> its just monitors the XDG directories and the home directory
[16:22] <seiflotfy> if anything is outside the XDG directory its not discovered per default
[16:23] <fagan> seiflotfy: well the idea is that we are thinking about doing some sort of plugin or something to tracker to give it the data of what music is synced
[16:23] <seiflotfy> hahaha
[16:24] <fagan> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-o-music-discovery
[16:24] <seiflotfy> fagan, i can finish a script that does that the same way tracker does
[16:24] <seiflotfy> there is no magic in it
[16:24] <seiflotfy> its just a process monitors the "Music directory"
[16:25] <seiflotfy> you can do it in a few lines of python too
[16:25] <seiflotfy> fagan, if you want i can do it for you
[16:25] <fagan> seiflotfy: well this is both in the cloud and what is already synced locally
[16:25] <fagan> thats the idea that is there
[16:25] <seiflotfy> tracker won't look into the cloud unless you tell it which directory it is
[16:26] <seiflotfy> tracker cant tell you whats synced
[16:26] <seiflotfy> it will tell you what music you hav
[16:26] <seiflotfy> enot whats synced
[16:28] <fagan> seiflotfy: well id say the idea that dobey had was to tell tracker what music is there and if they try to play it, it would sync or stream down..etc
[16:29] <fagan> Im only suggesting not using tracker because its not going to be shipped by default because its not needed
[16:29] <seiflotfy> fagan, you cant just tell tracker on the fly something is here or there
[16:29] <seiflotfy> ele we would have used it as our indexer
[16:30] <fagan> seiflotfy: ahhh ok so we cant even use it that way
[16:30] <seiflotfy> no
[16:30] <fagan> that clears it up a lot
[16:30] <seiflotfy> fagan, i can finish this script for you guys if you want
[16:30] <seiflotfy> i played with ubuntu one
[16:30] <seiflotfy> and i plaed with monitoring directories
[16:30] <seiflotfy> its a 500 line script imho
[16:32] <fagan> seiflotfy: well im pretty sure that we could do the entire thing with a quick dbus api and get it done easy anyway we dont need to monitor anything
[16:33] <fagan> so moral of the story I forgot what I was going to say originally but my point turned out valid in the end even if im bad at saying it
[16:37] <seiflotfy> if you want to know whats already there on your harddisk to not duplicate the syncing
[16:37] <seiflotfy> just compare the directory
[16:37] <seiflotfy> tracker is no help there
[16:37] <seiflotfy> sorry
[16:38] <fagan> cool
[16:42] <fagan> dobey: yeah seiflotfy just explained that the zeitgeist fts thing uses xapian
[16:44] <fagan> Almost EOD
[16:47] <fagan> I think I could have handled the lot better
[16:47] <fagan> /s/handled/handled that
[16:48]  * fagan needs a book on tact
[16:55] <fagan> Ok im leaving a few minutes early for something but will be doing some stuff later. mandel ill look down through my mail and do what ever merges are in the queue
[16:55] <mandel> fagan: ok, cool, there should be a couple
[16:56] <mandel> if I fix the bloody bug I have ;)
[16:56] <fagan> mandel: its not a bug its a feature
[16:56] <fagan> hah
[16:56] <mandel> he, I wish
[16:57] <fagan> thats a similar statement to "hey your not working" "yes I am im brainstorming"
[16:57]  * fagan is bad at making up jokes
[16:58] <fagan> mandel: could you mentor me in your awesome jokes :D
[16:58]  * fagan EOD
[16:58] <mandel> fagan: the golden rain is to say: 'That is what she said'
[16:59] <mandel> hehehehe
[16:59] <fagan> mandel: ha
[16:59] <mandel> I'm great at this \m/
[17:00] <fagan> We're not worthy we're not worthy :)
[17:28] <dobey> mandel: i don't think that's what golden rain is
[17:29] <dobey> i wonder if i should even bother reading the backlog
[17:32] <mandel> dobey: I was playing with the fact that I tend to spell thing wrong, and that my jokes are dirty
[17:32] <mandel> dobey: golden ratio ;)
[17:33] <dobey> heh
[18:04] <dobey> fagan: the only thing that is clear, is that you have no idea why i suggested tracker for that blueprint :)
[18:04] <dobey> or even what the blueprint is for
[18:17] <dobey> doh, no rodrigo
[18:20] <dobey> meh
[18:26] <dobey> *yawn*
[18:44]  * rye wonders whether uuid mergeable lists could have been replaced by [ {'type': 'url', 'value': 'something'} , { ... } ]... After all the update/PUT calls are putting the whole document and in this case the order is preserved by js array
[18:47] <dobey> que?
[18:47] <dobey> thinking out loud?
[18:47] <rye> dobey, doing couchdb2vcard converter
[18:47] <dobey> ah
[18:47] <rye> dobey, and lookind at contacts from slightly different angle
[18:48] <dobey> wtf
[18:48] <dobey> why do i have to pick timezone and make a user, if i am upgrading
[18:48] <rye> dobey, hmm? why? I mean are you using the ISO image?
[18:49] <dobey> yes, i am installing from a usb keyfob with a 11.04 iso; though the iso is a few weeks old
[18:50] <dobey> so maybe that has been fixed
[18:50] <rye> dobey, well, i have never upgraded from the ISO image
[18:50] <dobey> me either
[18:50] <dobey> i didn't realize i could, until just now when i was installing it, and it gave me the option of upgrading
[18:51] <dobey> so figured i would try it
[18:51] <dobey> will see what happens :)
[18:52] <rye> first_name/last_name vs given/family grrr
[18:53] <dobey> eh, separating names like that is always a problem
[18:53] <rye> ith_name jth_name kth_name... nth_name, n+1th_name
[18:54] <rye> i wonder what standard dc contacts are following
[18:54] <dobey> rye: especially for this guy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDPqB9i1ScY
[18:56] <rye> dobey, you know, I've been specifying "O." as my middle name until i went to UK and found out that... it is based on nothing, middle name is like an alias. And "O." is initial for my patronymic name
[18:57] <dobey> well, middle names are mostly for uniqueness really.
[18:59] <rye> uuid for middlename!
[18:59] <rye> Roman ac4f6b5a-704e-4bde-97e2-06cf04d63511 Yepishev
[19:04] <dobey> oh sigh
[19:05] <dobey> so "upgrade" went horribly wrong, but not overly so, i guess
[19:05] <dobey> at least it didn't just repartition the entire drive
[19:10] <karni> rye: I've sent you the mail. I would be very interested in how the new app handles your huge folders in the cloud :)
[19:11] <karni> *a mail
[19:41] <thisfred> rye: the reason mergeable lists are not simply lists is that when you get two versions of a record from two different sources, you can no longer distinguish between reorderings+edits and removal/adding of entries in the list. We may have overestimated the importance of making that distinction though.
[20:13] <rye> dobey, that's the thing i was about to say, drive partitioning :)
[20:14] <rye> thisfred, well, merging the case when only mergeable lists have changed is interesting, but don't know whether this currently occurs in the natural condition
[20:14] <rye> oh
[20:14] <rye> Community series is awesome but I feel i picked too many lines from it
[20:16] <mandel> guys, the bloody sd is running on windows atm, performance has gone from 90% of cpu time to 7% , over 265 chars files are downloading andwe have shares, udfs and what not
[20:16] <mandel> well, we can't use special char just yet and file names like COM1, but that is a diff story :)
[20:17] <thisfred> mandel: ^5!
[20:17] <thisfred> or ⁵ if you prefer
[20:18] <mandel> ⁵
[20:19] <thisfred> next stop Amiga!
[20:29] <dobey> heh
[20:30] <dobey> syncing COM1 would be interesting ;)
[20:30] <mandel> thisfred: no way
[20:30] <mandel> dobey: yeah, it will break in a very interesting way, but I think I know how to fix this using a little trick from NTFS
[20:30] <rye> karni, from startup till first level of files in 5 seconds
[20:31] <rye> mandel, \0COM1 ?
[20:31] <mandel> rye: yes :)
[20:31] <mandel> I'm going to try, I dont know if it will work
[20:31] <rye> o_O
[20:32] <mandel> rye: the problem is not how it is represented, is how you map the event to fix the path
[20:33] <dobey> mandel: i am pretty sure that you do not want to stick a NULL in there
[20:33] <dobey> bad things will happen :)
[20:33] <rye> karni, yay, sleek menu!
[20:33] <mandel> dobey:  I've stick a \0 with other paths and worked :P
[20:33] <dobey> eww
[20:34] <rye> O_O
[20:34] <rye> mandel, does \0 trick even exist?
[20:35] <rye> karni, how are the entries sorted ? alphabetically case insensitive ?
[20:35]  * mandel looks for something
[20:36] <dobey> mandel: i think we should just ignore files with special names
[20:39] <mandel> dobey: well, I'm going to try, what do I have to loose?
[20:39] <dobey> mandel: well, we don't sync special files on linux...
[20:40] <dobey> i don't see why we should on windows
[20:40] <mandel> dobey: we dont?
[20:40] <mandel> well, I can ignore special files, but will deal with special chars
[20:41] <dobey> mandel: no; we don't sync symlinks, or unix sockets/pipes
[20:42] <mandel> didn't know that
[22:02] <mwhudson> ubuntuone-syncdaemon is still chewing my cpu to pieces
[22:02] <mwhudson> i think it's used at least a week of cpu time by now
[22:04] <dobey> what is it doing?
[22:08] <mwhudson> dobey: recovering from the fact that i took my Maildir out of ~/Ubuntu One/ i think
[22:08] <mwhudson> is there some way i can make u1 forget that i ever had any files locally at all?
[22:09] <dobey> yes
[22:09] <dobey> shut down all the processes
[22:11] <dobey> mwhudson: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/FAQ/HowDoICompletelyRemoveAndReinstallUbuntuOne
[22:11] <dobey> mwhudson: although, those intructions aren't exactly true on 11.04
[22:12] <mwhudson> ah, thanks
[22:12] <dobey> since there is no ubuntuone-preferences
[22:12] <dobey> but just replace it with "stop all the u1 processes" :)
[22:19] <dobey> later all!
[22:22] <mwhudson> dobey: thanks, although i now seem to have lost the u1 control panel...
[22:23] <mwhudson> ah, the software center to the rescue!
[22:31] <karni> rye: UDFs first then folders first then alphabetically - you will have an option to change that to alphabetical sort
[22:32] <mwhudson> YES UBUNTU ONE ACTUALLY SEEMS TO WORK AGAIN!
[22:33] <karni> rye: btw yes, also case insensitive


[02:47] <IdleOne> http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/linux/steamd-penguins/ games!
[09:58] <jussi> IdleOne: games rock - Im pretty happy valve has finally gone that way
[10:01] <DJones> There's only one game playing though...Minecraft :)
[10:01] <DJones> s/game playing/game worth playing/
[10:05] <jussi> DJones: lol, you have been hanging out with popey too long...
[10:05] <DJones> Heh
[10:05] <popey> :D
[10:06] <DJones> In defence of popey, I've not seen him play Minecraft for weeks
[10:07] <jussi> he plays it vicariously through his kids...
[10:07] <jussi> :D
[10:07] <popey> busy coding
[10:07] <popey> decided I wouldn't play till I had some code finished
[10:17] <jussi> So do we think that steam will actually bring some big names titles to ubuntu?
[10:23] <DJones> Thats definatly not a question for me, I haven't got a clue about games steam have released/distribute, apart from minecraft, I've not bought a game for about 10 years
[10:23] <DJones> :)
[10:23] <popey> jussi, well there's already all the recent humble bundle ones which are mostly on steam
[10:24] <popey> so if you already bought those you can install them easily via steam
[10:25] <jussi> popey: yeah, Im kind of more talking about the super popular mainstream titles
[10:25] <popey> time will tell
[10:25] <jussi> interested to see whether stuff you see out there being advertised will make it to Ubuntu
[10:26] <jussi> popey: this is true :P
[10:26] <popey> i expect so, after a while
[10:27] <DJones> Hmmh, Actually, I've just realised, my game buying days seem to have gone around the same time I started going with my (now) wife..........
[10:28] <jussi> hahaha
[10:28] <AlanBell> is there some kind of reference specification for running steam games?
[10:28] <jussi> TBH I havent bought a game since I found civ3 at a garage sale a couple of years back
[10:29] <jussi> AlanBell: good question, Im not sure.
[10:29] <AlanBell> with consoles like the PS2 or wii the designers know the spec and frame rate it can do etc because they are all the same
[10:30] <jussi> AlanBell: true, but how do the PC creators do it?
[10:30] <AlanBell> well I know for doom and quake you could turn down the resolution, but I haven't played any PC games since that era realy
[10:31] <jussi> I think they can still do that
[10:31] <AlanBell> I know games can be quite taxing because there are gaming PCs that are high end still
[10:32] <AlanBell> you can set up flight simulators with multiple monitors, probably other games too
[10:33] <jussi> true
[10:33] <jussi> flight sims are not an issue on linux though, as the best one you can buy is native linux
[10:34] <jussi> (and anyone who tries to tell me ms flight is the best shouldreally go try xplane, which equips flight sims that you can actually earn hours on...)
[10:35] <AlanBell> I have only played flightgear
[10:35] <jussi> its ok, ish, but Xplane is the industry leader.
[10:45]  * popey notes flight sims don't feature in.. http://digitalbattle.com/2012/02/21/top-10-highest-grossing-video-games-ever/
[10:46] <popey> nor http://www.videogamesblogger.com/2011/07/26/top-10-steam-games-of-2011-so-far-usa.htm
[10:46] <popey> or http://store.steampowered.com/#topsellers
[10:46] <popey> :)
[11:09] <jussi> popey: however, I would wager a bet that if you took flights sims combined sales over their life, they would be among the top sellers. ie. MS Flight has been around for 20 odd years...
[11:10] <jussi> so flight sims are like a long term investment :)
[11:17] <AlanBell> dunno, I think they probably cater to a fairly specific audience though
[11:17] <AlanBell> more people in total can play angry birds and get something out of it than a flightsim
[11:22] <jussi> true that
[11:22] <jussi> a specific, but loyal and cashed up audience
[11:22] <popey> who buy one expensive app every few years
[11:23] <jussi> popey: no
[11:23] <popey> relative to casual gamers, yes
[11:23] <jussi> popey: there are lot of addons that people buy, new aeroplanes, new terrain, cities etc.
[11:23] <jussi> its not just the game itsself
[11:23] <popey> sure, there's dlc
[12:42] <popey> how does this look? (the bottom one) http://popey.com/~alan/onair.png ?
[12:43] <popey> nice and simple imo
[12:43] <AlanBell> I like it
[12:46] <jussi> popey: yeah, me too, its nice
[12:46] <popey> thanks chaps
[12:47] <popey> (I didnt make it)
[12:48] <Pici> The CoF on the right looks out of place on the bottom one imho.
[12:48] <popey> it does a little..
[12:48] <MrChrisDruif> popey; I think I prefer the top one
[12:49] <MrChrisDruif> But that is just feeling, I can't describe why I prefer it over the other. Probably less obstrusive