[12:28] <superm1_> kruuli, thats something coming in our next alpha.  I can point you to how to do it on command line though
[12:28] <superm1_> if you'd like
[12:28] <superm1_> kruuli, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MythTV/Install/WhatNext/Feisty#head-9562662ba6464e40b7a094b8b06c778dfa7b7234
[12:28] <superm1_> scroll to the NVIDIA section
[12:31] <CDG52> does anyone know how to set up the windows media center remote with lirc?
[12:31] <CDG52> i have the OVU4003/00 transmitter
[12:31] <CDG52> that came with the remote
[12:31] <kruuli> superm1 great! ill try this right away
[12:32] <superm1_> CDG52, see the lirc howto
[12:33] <superm1_> at http://help.ubuntu.com/community/Install_Lirc_Feisty
[12:33] <CDG52> i looked at it but i couldnt find my remote
[12:33] <superm1_> it guides you through setting up a mceusb2/mceusb remote
[12:33] <superm1_> which is what the mce remotes are
[12:33] <CDG52> ah cool
[12:33] <CDG52> i didnt see it when i looked before but ill check again
[12:50] <rogue780|mythsrv> I'm gonna try to reclaim my title as usplash image maker dude
[12:50] <superm1_> haha
[12:51] <superm1_> well this new guy did make some pretty wicked mock ups
[12:55] <kruuli> awsome .. mythvideo worked great with a new pair of drivers :>
[12:55] <rogue780|mythsrv> indeed he did. I'm very impressed
[12:56] <superm1_> any ideas where he ran off to?
[12:56] <CDG52> hmm ive done everything that was said on that page but all all i get is "I couldnt laod the required kernel modules
[12:57] <kruuli> has anyone had any experience with a usb connected TV card? friend saw mythbuntu at my house today and got impressed :p hes has the PVR 350 based USB model can you make it work?
[12:57] <superm1> kruuli, the pvr-usb2?
[12:57] <OpenMedia> I've used some USB devices but none with MPEG2
[12:57] <kruuli> yeah superm1
[12:57] <OpenMedia> Got the HVR-900 analogue + DVB-T, plus a freecom DVB-T
[12:58] <kruuli> overkill OpenMedia :>
[12:58] <OpenMedia> Nah.. Can't actually use the DVB-T at the moment as they have turned the NZ tests off
[12:58] <superm1> kruuli, there is a way to get them going, but its one piece of hardware that i've not worked with
[12:59] <OpenMedia> Got one customer who wants 7-9 tuners in his box, with 3 of them running 24hrs
[12:59] <superm1> if you figure out whats involved with making it work in linux, we can add support to mythbuntu
[12:59] <OpenMedia> Get the model number as I might know someone who is using it.
[12:59] <kruuli> ok cool will do that
[01:00] <superm1> CDG52, try 'sudo depmod -a' and the remodprobing
[01:00] <superm1> OpenMedia, thats insance
[01:00] <OpenMedia> Problem with Hauppauge is they keep tweaking the chipsets. if it has MPEG-2 HW then check the ivtv mailing list or ivtvdriver.org
[01:00] <superm1> 7-9 tuners???
[01:00] <OpenMedia> Ability to record every channel at the same time.
[01:01] <kruuli> think i saw something about some driver that enabled usb tvcards .. dunno if it meant all cards ..ill try finding it right away
[01:01] <superm1> kruuli, i'm pretty sure this is the common usb2 one
[01:01] <superm1> http://www.isely.net/pvrusb2/pvrusb2.html
[01:07] <CDG52> i did that
[01:07] <CDG52> the sudo depmod -a
[01:09] <superm1> check /etc/lirc/lirc-modules-source.conf make sure that your module is listed there
[01:09] <superm1> accidently hitting escape in the wrong place can cause it to not showup
[01:10] <CDG52> i dont understand
[01:10] <CDG52> no matter what i do it refuses to put them there
[01:11] <superm1> you can manually do it then
[01:11] <superm1> it happens if you misaccept a dialog during that dpkg-reconfigure
[01:11] <superm1> just make LIRC_MODULES="mceusb2"
[01:11] <superm1> and then rebuild using m-a
[01:12] <CDG52> ok
[01:12] <CDG52> im trying now
[01:14] <kruuli> yeah thats the one i was talking about superm1
[01:14] <kruuli> hum .. seems kinda choppy to get that card to work
[01:14] <kruuli> if he were to buy a new one .. what card should he buy?
[01:15] <OpenMedia> Does he have to have USB?
[01:15] <CDG52> any idea why also when i plug in my ir receiver, it will let me use it and light up the light and like 5 seconds later it wont blink the light if i push a button?
[01:15] <CDG52> yeah still have the same issue
[01:15] <kruuli> OpenMedia nah dont think so .. but is there a better usb card then the pvr usb2 card if he has to have it?
[01:16] <OpenMedia> Depends on if he can support digital TV or needs analogue.
[01:16] <kruuli> needs to be analogue i believe
[01:18] <superm1> CDG52, when you rebuilt the modules, did you follow the rebuild steps at the bottom of that howto
[01:18] <superm1> including the cleaning step
[01:18] <superm1> and such
[01:19] <CDG52> yed
[01:19] <CDG52> yes
[01:20] <kruuli> need my beauity sleep .. nn all an thank you again superm1 for you help :)
[01:20] <superm1> nn kruuli np
[01:21] <superm1> CDG52hmum
[01:21] <superm1> whats the error when trying to load now?
[01:38] <superm1> rogue780|mythsrv, http://www.mythbuntu.org/~supermario/mythbuntu/7.10-screenshots/gdm_theme.png
[01:38] <superm1> there is what it ended up like
[01:38] <a5benwillis> ello guys
[01:39] <superm1> hi a5benwillis
[01:39] <a5benwillis> any cisco people out there?
[01:40] <a5benwillis> looking for a piece of software....
[01:40] <a5benwillis> stupid winders
[01:40] <rogue780||> miss me? I ****ing hate comcrap
[01:40] <superm1> rogue780||, did you get my post?
[01:40] <superm1> rogue780|mythsrv, http://www.mythbuntu.org/~supermario/mythbuntu/7.10-screenshots/gdm_theme.png
[01:43] <rogue780||> that looks cool. I've been experimenting with ways to let the user select a session after gdm authenticates the user (well sort of...it's a bit more complicated than that, and it allows lirc to be used to select the session)
[01:43] <rogue780||> and also w/the idea that each user has a different default session
[01:43] <superm1> oooh that sounds nice
[01:43] <superm1> atm the workaround for the session thing was to just make the default session the administration session
[01:44] <rogue780||> I thought that the first option of my two had the most promise
[01:44] <superm1> they still have to login normally though
[01:44] <superm1> so still need a keyboard one wy or another
[01:46] <rogue780||> unless you have gdm setup to autologin the mythtv user. then a menu appears asking which session they want, which can be selected using their remote control of choice, and if after 10 seconds no session is selected, the default session loads and it's all ready to watch tv
[01:46] <superm1> ah, so they would be able to run mythtv-setup and such
[01:46] <superm1> right there hten
[01:46] <superm1> thats an interesting way to go about it
[01:47] <superm1> but there is one inherent problem
[01:47] <rogue780||> that's the theory. I've only done some preliminary stuff on it
[01:47] <rogue780||> they haven't set up a control yet?
[01:47] <superm1> the mythtv user pourposly doesnt have sudo perms
[01:47] <superm1> so you can only do so much in that session option for administration
[01:48] <CDG52> so has anyone lmpw wju wjem o [;ig om ,u wore;ess receiver, it works for about 5 seconds like the buttons will make the lights flash on the receiver, but not working on computer, and then after 5 seconds the receivers light doesnt do anything
[01:48] <rogue780||> there are *ways* around that...none of which are considered couth (sp)
[01:49] <rogue780||> how am I still logged in as rogue780|mythsrv ? that's funny
[01:49] <superm1> CDG52, sounds like a receiver going bad to me
[01:49] <superm1> or a usb port not giving enough ower
[01:49] <superm1> power
[01:49] <rogue780||> someone should kick that usurper
[01:49] <CDG52> the receiver works fine on my windows box
[01:49] <CDG52> it might be that the usb on this computer are bad
[01:49] <rogue780||> sweet
[01:50] <rogue780||> err CDG52 not sweet to your problem...
[01:50] <rogue780||> bad timing
[01:50] <superm1> what are you think for these $ways rogue780|| ?
[01:50] <OpenMedia> Tried a different USB port? also run lsusb to make sure the device is still present.
[01:51] <CDG52> i did try a different usb port, there are only two though
[01:51] <CDG52> i have yet to try lsusb
[01:51] <rogue780||> well one obvious one would be to give mythtv sudo perms by default...but there are good reasons why it doesn't. another would be to give the user the ability to "su root" by the click of a button when need be...but that is also fraught with problems as well.
[01:51] <CDG52> yes it does show up with lsusb
[01:52] <superm1> rogue780||, as much as i'm for easy administration, I dont want the mythtv user to have any more permissions than to run mythtv-setup, start or stop the backend
[01:52] <superm1> too dangerous with automatic login
[01:52] <superm1> perhaps an alternative
[01:52] <superm1> is to force a logout if you choose the admin option
[01:52] <superm1> and then give them the opportunity to log back in
[01:53] <superm1> as a regular user
[01:53] <rogue780||> I think the best solution would be to have it set up so that it auto logs in as mythtv, then in the setup menu there is an option to login to administrative mode, the user enters a pin number with the remote, the session closes, gdm resets and autologs into administrative mode.
[01:53] <superm1> well auto login as administrative, don't know how to allow such gdm changes
[01:53] <superm1> because to change gdm stuff you need admin priv in the first place
[01:53] <rogue780||> right
[01:54] <rogue780||> I'll think of a way.
[01:54] <superm1> having a password is a safe way to do it I think, and just having people log into the admin session
[01:55] <superm1> but I like having a little popup for 5 seconds or so that will offer to logout to go to the admin session
[01:55] <CDG52> so with my issue of not getting lirc to work, i decided i would try to record my own file by hitting buttons
[01:55] <CDG52> and i type in sudo modprobe lirc_mceusb2 and it says "FATAL: Module lirc_mceusb2 not found."
[01:55] <superm1> then the module wasn't built
[01:56] <superm1> when you did the rebuild steps, for some reason or another
[01:56] <CDG52> weird
[01:56] <CDG52> i followed all of them exactly as it said
[01:56] <CDG52> from that site
[01:56] <CDG52> c/p it all
[01:56] <superm1> can you pastebin /etc/lirc/lirc-modules-source.conf ?
[01:57] <CDG52> pastebin?
[01:57] <superm1> !pastebin
[01:57] <ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
[01:57] <rogue780||> !paste
[01:57] <CDG52> ah ok
[01:59] <CDG52> weird that file is empty
[01:59] <CDG52> wops miss spell
[01:59] <CDG52> one sec
[02:00] <CDG52> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/25345
[02:00] <superm1> OK looks good
[02:01] <rogue780||> so I told comcast that my interent has been going in and out of late and they told me to disconnect my modem from my router and plug my computer into the modem directly. so as I was doing removing the cable from my router I said to myself (I talk to myself quite a bit, I think it's a sign of genius), "hmm...I wonder which cable it is." The guy on the other line informs me that it is not the round one, and then told me it w
[02:01] <rogue780||> as in fact the one connected to my computer. so I told him, "I meant, which one of the 10 that I have plugged in."
[02:01] <superm1> can you pastebin the output of all the rebuild steps?
[02:01] <superm1> what happens (perhaps there is a little error there that your missing)
[02:02] <CDG52> which part is the rebuild part?
[02:03] <superm1> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Install_Lirc_Feisty#head-d3d68ae281fb2e007e5d842321d7ecc2dbdd9e50
[02:03] <tgm4883> lol @ the comcast guy
[02:03] <rogue780||> then later he asked me to go to "My Computer" and the control panel...
[02:03] <superm1> the part you wree following before :)
[02:03] <rogue780||> and eventually I was told to open internet explorer
[02:03] <rogue780||> he was awesome
[02:04] <rogue780||> hey superm1 mythbuntu works on my "windows box" but not on my sempron64...but feisty does
[02:04] <superm1> rogue780||, well the next mythbuntu disk will be gutsy based, so perhaps the new xorg and casper will be more friendly
[02:04] <superm1> to you sempron64
[02:05] <rogue780||> maybe
[02:05] <superm1> i built a reference disk this morning, but i wont be back home until another 2 or 3 hours
[02:06] <superm1> so i can see whats broken atm on gutsy
[02:07] <CDG52> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/25347
[02:08] <superm1> okay looks just right
[02:08] <superm1> and you should be able to modprobe mceusb2 now
[02:09] <CDG52> o hey that worked
[02:09] <superm1> :)
[02:09] <rogue780||> I love modprobe
[02:09] <CDG52> ah it started
[02:09] <CDG52> it said
[02:09] <CDG52> starting lirc deamon: lircd.
[02:09] <CDG52> then it went to another line
[02:09] <CDG52> isnt it not supsoto do that?
[02:10] <CDG52> o hey it works!
[02:10] <rogue780||> glorious huzzah!
[02:11] <CDG52> now time to figure how ot make it work with tvtime
[02:14] <tgm4883> the comcast tech that hooked up my new cable box decided he was much smarter than I and changed where all my cables were going behind my mythtv box
[02:14] <tgm4883> my tech and rogue780||'s tech must be one in the same
[02:15] <OpenMedia> irw is your friend
[02:16] <rogue780||> the comcast guy who hooked up my internet had no idea what to do with the slackware box I purposely gave him and gave up trying to set up my internet
[02:17] <CDG52> so im confused, i set this all up and got my keys in and irw see's my keys but none of it will work
[02:18] <rogue780||> apparently if you don't have windows they can't set up your Internet and make you do it. I had to fight to get the install fee refunded...around here they don't do self installs for some reason
[02:18] <superm1> okay kids see you later :)
[02:18] <rogue780||> CDG52, do you have both a .lircrc and lircrc files?
[02:18] <rogue780||> see ya mario
[02:18] <CDG52> i have .lircrc
[02:18] <CDG52> what are hte lircrc files?
[02:19] <tgm4883> my comcast guy kept going on an on about the extra functions of the comcast remote.  He tried to make me feel special by telling me that he doesn't tell his average customers these things, and hes telling me that I would probably use these features since he saw the computer next to my TV
[02:19] <rogue780||> lol
[02:19] <rogue780||> CDG52, hold on half a second
[02:19] <CDG52> ok
[02:19] <rogue780||> you're trying to get mythtv working right...just to be clear?
[02:19] <tgm4883> mind you the extra feature he was talking about was that the volume button can be made to control my surround sound
[02:20] <rogue780||> wow! amazing
[02:20] <tgm4883> like im really going to use their remote anyway
[02:20] <tgm4883> the whole time he is explaining all this to another guy who apparently was his trainee
[02:21] <tgm4883> "some people have tuner cards in their pc's....) trying to show off
[02:22] <tgm4883> i just let him do his thing and be on his way
[02:22] <tgm4883> I cant believe that dont do self installs where you live
[02:22] <tgm4883> where is that btw?
[02:24] <rogue780||> I'm near baltimore on an Army base
[02:24] <rogue780||> CDG52,
[02:24] <CDG52> yes?
[02:24] <rogue780||> you need to have a ~/.lircrc and ~/.mythtv/lircrc file
[02:24] <rogue780||> they need to be identical
[02:24] <rogue780||> so you can just make a link
[02:25] <CDG52> ah
[02:25] <tgm4883> Bummer, here I just signed up  at best buy, got a free modem, and a $100 gift cert to best buy
[02:25] <rogue780||> where are you?
[02:25] <tgm4883> Oregon
[02:26] <rogue780||> I'm from Oregon
[02:26] <tgm4883> Sweet what part
[02:26] <OpenMedia> Oregon is the place to be at the moment. Still trying to organise ubuntulive
[02:26] <rogue780||> first 15 years in Medford, last 4 in Eugene
[02:26] <tgm4883> Sweet, im originally from Klamath Falls, but now live in Salem
[02:27] <rogue780||> OpenMedia, aren't you in NZ?
[02:27] <OpenMedia> Yup. Auckland
[02:51] <xeno_> I don't see mythTV as a supported package on my feisty machines.  It's there with apt-cache,...
[02:52] <xeno_> but I am unable to access it with synaptic package manager.
[02:52] <dannyboy79> anyone know about mythrename.pl?
[02:53] <dannyboy79> anyone here?
[02:54] <dannyboy79> guess not. goodbye
[03:00] <dannyboy79> anyone here
[03:03] <dannyboy79> hello?
[03:04] <dannyboy79> is something just not working here?
[03:06] <dannyboy79> hello?
[03:06] <dannyboy79> hugolp: can you see what I am typing?
[03:06] <dannyboy79> tgm4883: are you here but not responding?
[03:06] <OpenMedia_Steve> I'm here
[03:07] <tgm4883> im here
[03:07] <dannyboy79> well do you know how to use mythrename.pl? superm1, the developer of Mythbuntu helped me set it up
[03:07] <dannyboy79> but it's not working
[03:08] <dannyboy79> it's a root cronjob that is suppose to take the recordings and name them something logical and then put that logical named symlink into a different folder but it doesnt' work.
[03:08] <OpenMedia_Steve> Is there no output?
[03:09] <OpenMedia_Steve> What happens when you run it manually on the command line?
[03:09] <dannyboy79> correct, the folder is empty but I did notice that the mythtv recordings folder has a bunch of files that are different than what they were, just numbers though, they still aren't readble
[03:09] <dannyboy79> let me try
[03:10] <OpenMedia_Steve> Sorry closed the wrong window.
[03:10] <OpenMedia_Steve> Did you mention what the output was on the command line?
[03:10] <dannyboy79> well this is what the crontab looks like: 0,30 * * * * /usr/local/bin/mythrename.pl --link /media/400gb/mythtv/readable-recordings
[03:11] <OpenMedia_Steve> And if you just run it on the command line?
[03:12] <dannyboy79> huh??? i
[03:12] <dannyboy79> it turns out that it's not even there anymore????
[03:12] <OpenMedia_Steve> What mythrename.pl ?
[03:12] <dannyboy79> I have to re-gunzip it and re-edit the file, then let me see.
[03:13] <dannyboy79> it's located within /usr/share/doc/mythtv-backend/contrib/mythrename.pl.gz
[03:14] <tgm4883> Well that could be the problem
[03:15] <dannyboy79> well now that I look in it, I can't find where to change the mysql password and what not???
[03:15] <dannyboy79> so you've never heard of this before? you don't use it?
[03:16] <tgm4883> When you run it from the command line, does it create the symlinks?
[03:20] <dannyboy79> no
[03:21] <dannyboy79> it asks me to run it with options and a filename??
[03:21] <dannyboy79> I think I figured out the problem, it wasn't executable and also, I noticed that the name within the crontab was calling for mythrename when the file within /usr/local/bin/ is called mythname.pl
[03:24] <dannyboy79> is there a reason why I am not seeing others talking when there's 22 users within this channel? i am new to irc so I am curious?
[03:25] <tgm4883> yea, while our computers are logged into hhere, we are not always at our computers (or are looking at different screen)
[03:26] <tgm4883> this is usually the case with development channels
[03:27] <tgm4883> since we are logged in, if someone wants to talk to us they just say our name, and we will get a notification (as long as we are logged in)
[03:28] <OpenMedia_Steve> I use mythrename.pl on myPVR units.
[03:30] <OpenMedia_Steve> we run perl /usr/local/bin/mythrename.pl --link /myth/pretty
[03:31] <OpenMedia_Steve> We have a script in /etc/cron.hourly that runs it
[03:46] <rogue780||> is there a way to see the last few commands executed by someone accessing the computer through ssh from the host system?
[04:11] <OpenMedia_Steve> Look at their history?
[04:17] <rogue780||> OpenMedia_Steve, you know how o do that remotely?
[04:19] <OpenMedia_Steve> no.
[04:19] <OpenMedia_Steve> Need to login to check
[04:25] <CDG52> sorry to ask another dumb question but how do you mount a samba share?
[04:52] <CDG52> ah never mind
[07:13] <superm1> imbrandon, any news on the multiple aliasing?
[07:36] <CDG52> hey anyone here?
[07:37] <CDG52> got a question about lirc if anyone can help
[07:40] <CDG52> im trying to set my power button up on my remote to turn off my screen
[07:40] <CDG52> lirc is running, it see's my remote it just isnt interacting with anything
[07:50] <OpenMedia_Steve> Ok MCE2 remote?
[07:51] <OpenMedia_Steve> What do you want it to do? Shutdown the Myth box or something else?
[07:52] <CDG52> i want to turn off my monitor lol
[07:52] <OpenMedia_Steve> Via power management?
[07:52] <CDG52> o and any idea why irexec has to be running?
[07:52] <CDG52> o i know the code
[07:53] <OpenMedia_Steve> irexec is the best way to send the commands for an MCE remote onto MythTV
[07:53] <CDG52> irexec has to be running for my remote to work, even though under prog = irexec
[07:53] <CDG52> so to get the remote to work i gotta go into console and run irexec
[07:53] <CDG52> else it wont pick it up
[07:54] <OpenMedia_Steve> I run it as part of my window manager startup8-)
[07:55] <OpenMedia_Steve> I have the following in my config
[07:55] <OpenMedia_Steve> begin
[07:55] <OpenMedia_Steve>     prog = irexec
[07:55] <OpenMedia_Steve>     button = Power
[07:55] <OpenMedia_Steve>     repeat = 0
[07:55] <OpenMedia_Steve>     config = /usr/local/bin/toggleMythFrontend
[07:55] <OpenMedia_Steve> end
[07:55] <CDG52> yeah no where in the install it said that lol
[07:55] <OpenMedia_Steve> its kinda standard for MCE2 and MythTV
[07:55] <OpenMedia_Steve> Anyhow you could insert your own script to power off.
[07:56] <CDG52> ya
[07:56] <OpenMedia_Steve> My toggleMythFrontend is a quick way to recover from a frontend lockup.
[07:56] <OpenMedia_Steve> First power button press kill mythfrontend, second restarts X
[07:57] <OpenMedia_Steve> We also program the custom keys
[07:57] <OpenMedia_Steve> begin
[07:57] <OpenMedia_Steve>     prog = irxevent
[07:57] <OpenMedia_Steve>     button = TV
[07:57] <OpenMedia_Steve>     config = Key ctrl-alt-T CurrentWindow
[07:57] <OpenMedia_Steve> end
[07:57] <OpenMedia_Steve> Then map CTRL+ALT+T inside MythTV
[07:57] <OpenMedia_Steve> superm1: Any thoughts on suggesting some standards for remote hot keys to be mapped into MythTV?
[07:58] <OpenMedia_Steve> Our standards are covered at http://openmedia.co.nz/openmedia/content/view/27/59/ and work really well on MCE remotes
[07:58] <superm1> OpenMedia_Steve, you mean like "general" standards
[07:58] <OpenMedia_Steve> Yeah..
[07:58] <superm1> the Ubuntu Media Center team has specs on such things
[07:58] <superm1> that they are writing
[07:58] <superm1> and working with upstream on
[07:58] <superm1> (upstream being lirc.org)
[07:59] <OpenMedia_Steve> Hot keys have to do what they say they do, or consumers get confused.
[08:00] <superm1> OpenMedia_Steve, thats very good
[08:00] <superm1> that you document such things
[08:00] <superm1> for mythbuntu at least, lirc is a low priority for us since all this work is going on with UMC
[08:00] <superm1> and its a rapidly changing front
[08:01] <OpenMedia_Steve> We have a couple of guides at http://openmedia.co.nz/openmedia/content/blogcategory/71/70/ as well as our support pages.
[08:01] <OpenMedia_Steve> I don't have a single customer who can cope with the standard MythTV docs. Just to hard for them
[08:03] <superm1> yea sometimes its indeed hard to put myself in the shoes of someone new to it
[08:04] <OpenMedia_Steve> Dealing with "customers" has been very enlightening.
[08:04] <OpenMedia_Steve> They still don't understand that the EPG data doesn't update every second.
[08:04] <OpenMedia_Steve> I keep getting questions about how to decode those secret signals that they put around adverts.
[08:09] <CDG52> how would i run two commands at once in the remote program?
[08:09] <OpenMedia_Steve> Such as?
[08:10] <CDG52> never mind
[08:12] <CDG52> ok question again sorry about these
[08:12] <CDG52> if "dpms force off" turns off your monitor
[08:12] <CDG52> how would i turn it back on?
[08:12] <CDG52> wops
[08:12] <CDG52> "xset dpms force off"
[08:14] <CDG52> "xset dpms force on" turns the monitor on
[08:14] <CDG52> but its a blank screen
[08:16] <OpenMedia_Steve> Hmm. You need to know what state you are in when you press power to invert it.
[08:18] <CDG52> i think i jsut found it online
[08:18] <CDG52> let me test
[08:20] <CDG52> ok cool it works
[08:20] <CDG52> as long as the screen isnt on already it will work otherwise the screen blanks....
[08:21] <CDG52> ok fixed that issue
[08:21] <CDG52> chagned the order of stuff
[01:22] <jimmy> hey guys
[01:22] <jimmy> my installer has crashed at 83%
[01:22] <jimmy> during the configuring MythTv stage
[01:24] <jimmy> anyone here
[01:28] <jimmy> yeh, the second it gets up to configuring MythTV it crashes
[01:33] <laga> heh
[01:33] <laga> jimmy: on the live cd: run sudo apt-get update; sudo apt-get upgrade
[01:33] <laga> re-run the installier
[01:34] <jimmy> rgr
[01:36] <jimmy> so just go into terminal and type that in?
[01:37] <laga> jup
[01:37] <laga> "sudo apt-get update; sudo apt-get upgrade"
[01:38] <jimmy> will try that in a sec mate
[02:18] <jimmy> crashed with same error
[02:18] <jimmy> actually no
[02:18] <jimmy> different error
[02:22] <jimmy> tried to do that apt-get stuff
[02:22] <jimmy> had an error doing that, saying Pipe Broken
[02:22] <jimmy> no disk space..
[02:23] <laga> sad :(
[02:23] <jimmy> even though there is a blank 80gb in there
[02:23] <laga> sorry, wait for superm1 then
[02:23] <laga> it's not writing to the hard disk yet
[02:23] <laga> i need to go now
[02:23] <jimmy> ok
[03:26] <jimmy> anyone else have any ideas why the install failes when it gets to configuring MythTv ?
[03:33] <superm1_> rikishinov, ping
[03:37] <rikishinov> hi superm1_
[03:37] <superm1_> rikishinov, you dissappeared before I could mention to you that your artwork was very nice
[03:38] <rikishinov> superm1_: thanks, so any thoughts about the design... which color should it be...
[03:38] <superm1_> rikishinov, well what I wanted to do was toss you and the two other guys who were interested in artwork related things together
[03:39] <superm1_> and let you figure it out and bring the results back
[03:39] <superm1_> so among the 3 of you whatever decided :)
[03:41] <rikishinov> and who are these two guys?
[03:41] <superm1_> rogue780||, and a buddy of mine from school
[03:42] <superm1_> (but he's not on IRC, so I was thinking i'll just send the three of you an email and you can sort things out that way)
[03:50] <ubotu> New bug: #120195 in ubiquity (main) "installer crashes at configure mythtv (dup-of: 119055)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/120195
[04:01] <rikishinov> out and bring the results back
[04:01] <rikishinov> 16:39 < superm1_> so among the 3 of you whatever decided :)
[04:01] <rikishinov> 16:40 < rikishinov> and who are these two guys?
[04:01] <rikishinov> 16:41 < superm1_> rogue780||, and a buddy of mine from school
[04:01] <superm1> rikishinov, pm me your email address if you can
[04:01] <superm1> you have to register w/ freenode to pm if you're not already
[04:03] <rikishinov> superm1: I'm going to register in a bit..
[04:03] <superm1> k
[06:56] <rogue780|mythsrv> why is rikishinov never here when I am?
[07:37] <[g2] > sorry for the repeat if anyone is in ubuntustudio, but does anyone know something about Ubuntu Media Center ?
[07:46] <rogue780|mythsrv> [g2] , what about it?
[08:00] <[g2] > rogue780: It's supposed to use Elisa and I see a very brief website here http://en.ubuntumediacenter.org/
[08:01] <[g2] > I'd think you guys or the studio guys would know about it
[08:02] <CDG52> hey does anyone know a command to bring ubuntu out of sleep?
[08:02] <CDG52> im working on putting it into my remote
[08:02] <CDG52> but my only issue is the computer goess to sleep after some time
[08:03] <rogue780> [g2] , all I know is it uses Elisa...so you know more than I
[08:27] <tgm4883> [g2] , what is your question
[08:28] <tgm4883> CDG52, wouldn't that be a ACPI BIOS function?
[08:28] <CDG52> im not sure, but i think i figure it out, all i did was turn off the screen saver
[08:29] <tgm4883> Is the computer actually shutting down?
[08:29] <CDG52> no
[08:29] <CDG52> just turning off the monitor
[08:30] <tgm4883> ah
[08:30] <CDG52> yeah i got that part
[08:30] <CDG52> and i learned how to turn it on
[08:30] <CDG52> which worked fine up untill like 30mins then the screen would be black again
[08:30] <CDG52> but i figure that out to
[08:30] <CDG52> does anyone know if the media player inside mythtv was built for mythtv or is another program?
[08:31] <tgm4883> you mean the internal player?
[08:32] <CDG52> yes
[08:32] <CDG52> the one for watching movies and such
[08:33] <tgm4883> well you can set it to use other programs like xine
[08:33] <tgm4883> but I think the internal player was built for mythtv
[08:33] <CDG52> ah
[08:34] <CDG52> unfortunitly im having issues with mythtv but the media player/gallery is really nice
[08:34] <CDG52> mythtv is very slow and the audio lags compraed to video
[08:34] <[g2] > tgm4883: I'm curious whether it's a Ubuntu sponsored "release" and who's running it
[08:34] <CDG52> but the media player runs nicly
[08:35] <tgm4883> [g2] , i dont think it is, as the only "sponsored" releases are (K)(X)ubuntu
[08:35] <tgm4883> CDG52, specs?
[08:36] <[g2] > tgm4883: well I mean like studio or I'd imagine mythtv
[08:36] <tgm4883> [g2] , I don't think studio is official either
[08:36] <[g2] > not "sponsored" in the sense of [K|X] Ubuntu
[08:36] <CDG52> its a 2.6 Celleron with 512mb ddr ram, its a compaq i got from a client, with a old hauppage card, one without the encoder on bord
[08:36] <CDG52> so it requires a audio cable into the line in
[08:37] <tgm4883> well then what do you mean by sponsored?
[08:37] <tgm4883> CDG52, can you watch a previously recorded program with not recording a program?
[08:38] <[g2] > tgm4883: Mark and other are clearly in support of some releases other than K|X|Ubuntu..
[08:38] <tgm4883> ah
[08:38] <CDG52> ive never tried watching a previously recorded program
[08:38] <[g2] > then I think some ppl brand stuff like Mint Linux which is Ubuntu derived, but not a Ubuntu project
[08:39] <tgm4883> CDG52, Sounds like the computer can't keep up with recording a program and playing back the program at the same time.  Try recording a program without watching it, then watching it later
[08:41] <tgm4883> [g2] , well in order to use the *buntu name, I believe that there are some qualifications that you must meet first
[08:41] <tgm4883> So i think that would make it seem favorable in the eyes of Mark
[08:42] <CDG52> actualy
[08:43] <CDG52> i htink the computre isnt processing the line in port
[08:43] <CDG52> and all its doing is unmusting it
[08:43] <CDG52> making the sound go a moment faster then the image
[08:43] <tgm4883> CDG52, the computer.....wait, is the video playing smooth?
[08:44] <CDG52> for the most part, i have had a few gitters
[08:44] <CDG52> now on the otherhand tvtime works great
[08:44] <CDG52> and has no lag at all no gitters
[08:44] <CDG52> crystal clear picture
[08:44] <tgm4883> [g2]  if the forums are any indicator, then the only "sponsored" distro is Ubuntu Christian Edition
[08:44] <tgm4883> CDG52, how far is the audio off?
[08:44] <CDG52> 2 seconds maybe 3?
[08:44] <tgm4883> ah
[08:45] <tgm4883> theres your problem
[08:45] <tgm4883> Your grabbing the wrong audio
[08:45] <CDG52> ah?
[08:45] <CDG52> should i grab the number two choice?
[08:45] <tgm4883> Your system is playing back the audio from the live feed, while the video is 3 seconds behind because it is being written to the hard drive first
[08:46] <CDG52> correct
[08:46] <CDG52> thats what i thought was going on
[08:47] <tgm4883> lol, i thought you had a different problem
[08:47] <tgm4883> now were on the same page
[08:47] <CDG52> yup
[08:47] <tgm4883> sec, let me look something up
[08:52] <tgm4883> arg, i cant find it
[08:52] <tgm4883> but its a common problem with software encoders and has a solution
[08:52] <CDG52> ah
[08:53] <tgm4883> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=2516825 here is a thread on it, check post 29 by majoridiot
[08:54] <CDG52> thank you
[08:55] <tgm4883> np
[09:00] <CDG52> ever notice filling the database takes forever?
[09:02] <tgm4883> yes
[09:02] <tgm4883> but its really only noticable once
[09:03] <CDG52> mine recalls the channel line up every time
[09:03] <tgm4883> What?
[09:04] <CDG52> um nvm
[09:04] <CDG52> o hey look no more lag
[09:04] <CDG52> lol
[09:04] <CDG52> o crap
[09:04] <CDG52> now i have two audio streems
[09:04] <CDG52> lol
[09:04] <tgm4883> yea, one needs muted
[09:05] <CDG52> ah alright
[09:05] <CDG52> got it
[09:06] <CDG52> now all i gotta do is reporgram my remote for it
[10:38] <kruuli> goodevning!
[10:44] <OpenMediaSupport> Don't you mean morning ;)
[10:45] <kruuli> heeh well its more like night here i guess :p
[10:46] <kruuli> OpenMediaSupport you never told me what tv tuner card may pal should get? he had a pci slot free .. so we are thinking about the PVR 350..
[10:46] <OpenMediaSupport> kruuli: Yeah sorry about that. Depends how he wants to drive the screen. Personally for analogue I'd use a PVR-150 as the tuner is better than the PVR-500
[10:54] <kruuli> the pvr-150 is better then the pvr-305 for analogue? why is that?
[10:55] <OpenMediaSupport> Nah 150 better than 500 because the dual tuner in the 500 has more reception issues
[10:55] <OpenMediaSupport> 350 is more expensive because it has the TV Out.
[10:57] <laga> word is that support for the tv-out of the 350 will be dropped. because no developer uses it
[11:00] <kruuli> if i have a graphic card with tv out theres no need for the tv out on the 350 right?
[11:08] <OpenMediaSupport> Yup. Plus the 350 can only do SD out anyway
[11:08] <OpenMediaSupport> kruuli:  What country is your friend in?
[11:11] <kruuli> sweden mate
[11:11] <OpenMediaSupport> Better get him to also look at DVB-T cards. Heard HD Digital transmission are just starting
[11:13] <kruuli> yeah .. the "native" channels sends in HD
[11:13] <kruuli> but hes behinde a analog cable anyway as the house provides it that way
[11:19] <rogue780> shenanigans!
[11:27] <superm1> rogue780, ?
[11:29] <OpenMediaSupport> My thoughts exactly :0
[11:52] <superm1> OpenMedia, are your guys' patches tagged for the 0.21 milestone?
[11:52] <superm1> on svn.mythtv.org?
[12:00] <kruuli> nn!
[12:22] <OpenMedia> superm1: Some of our required patches are already in SVN for 0.21.
[12:22] <OpenMedia> We need a bunch of backports to run off 0.20-fixes.
[12:22] <superm1> OpenMedia, good.  I was asking, because I saw the number of tickets is dwindling
[12:23] <superm1> its at around 94 now, so 0.21 should be on its way the next two-three months based upon past history
[12:24] <OpenMedia> Sweet. Nice to have the new storage containers. What I really really want is the MythMultiplex work for DVB though.
[12:24] <OpenMedia> Rest of our patches are around additional myPVR specific menus and gui elements.
[12:24] <superm1> ah to record multiple channels on the same multiplex?
[12:25] <OpenMedia> Yup thats the one. Problem is some windows products already do this.
[12:25] <superm1> is this in trunk yet? or just "being worked on"
[12:26] <OpenMedia> Separate branch at the moment - http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/browser/branches/mythtv-multirec
[12:26] <superm1> ah
[12:26] <superm1> is this the same branch that will allow multiple recorders to be blocked by one recording?
[12:26] <superm1> i'd imagine it to be along the same lines
[12:26] <OpenMedia> To radical at the moment. Don't know about the other problem.
[12:27] <superm1> the other problem is like when you have a STB
[12:27] <superm1> that multiple inputs record from
[12:27] <superm1> say a firewire input and a svideo input
[12:27] <superm1> but some channels are only available to say the firewire input
[12:27] <superm1> you want to block out the svideo if you activate the firewire
[12:28] <OpenMedia> One feature that would be nice is if you are recording two programs on the same channel+input that you can't under/overrun rather than cut over.
[12:28] <superm1> the last i heard it brought up was in a thread about this mythmultiplex stuff
[12:28] <OpenMedia> I don't know if that actually made sense.
[12:28] <superm1> na, i dont follow that


[03:10] <pitti> Good morning
[05:43] <DanChapman> Good Morning all :-)
[07:09] <jibel> good morning
[13:06] <elfy> balloons: is it possible to interrogate the iso.qa areas to find out how much testing has been done?
[13:08] <knome> elfy, you mean a report across different milestones?
[13:24] <Saviq> asac, ping
[13:26] <elfy> knome: yea
[13:27] <knome> elfy, i don't think there's a tool like that but i'm all ears for balloons' answer ;)
[13:27] <elfy> or anything that I can get hold :)
[13:27] <knome> elfy, you should be able to see testing numbers per milestone by simply going under those
[13:27] <elfy> lol - balloons hates me :p
[13:28] <elfy> knome: you mean like the 0/5 mandatory 0/1 run once type things?
[13:29] <knome> yes
[13:29] <elfy> k - knew about those - I mean more like this milestone had these results, this one these results etc - maybe see all since saucy was released
[13:29] <knome> mhm
[13:30] <asac> Saviq: hey how is it going
[13:30] <asac> what can i do?
[13:30] <Saviq> asac, just wanted to let you know that enabling indicators_client tests is probably not needed
[13:31] <Saviq> asac, as we're building it *into* lp:unity8 soon (as in it's merging today)
[13:31] <Saviq> asac, and lp:indicators-client will get deprecated
[13:31] <Saviq> asac, we have some general problems with unity8 tests on the device, though, that we're trying to resolve now
[13:32] <asac> Saviq: thanks for getting back to me. unity8 is afaict scheduled for next week
[13:33] <asac> so you still have some time :)
[13:33] <asac> i anticipated that that test suite will be one of the least easy to fix ones
[13:35] <Saviq> asac, actually it was targeted at device runs from the get go, we just have some generic input issue (that we might've solved already, but need to verify)
[17:05] <DanChapman> balloons, hey mate. You busy?
[17:05] <balloons> hey DanChapman
[17:06] <balloons> trying to finish up video :-)
[17:06] <DanChapman> :-) what on?
[17:09] <balloons> autopilot of course!
[17:09] <DanChapman> sweet!
[17:13] <DanChapman> balloons, when you get a chance I have 2 MP's waiting on your review. But really i want your thoughts on the firefox one
[17:13] <balloons> DanChapman, ohh, right.. I reviewed the ff one, unless you have another
[17:14] <balloons> mmm.. I see :-)
[17:14] <DanChapman> I have just proposed it couple mins ago
[17:15] <balloons> first glance these both look nice
[17:15] <balloons> on the ff stuff, it's always going to be a bit of a pain because we can't introspect it properly
[17:15] <balloons> trying to do something useful while minimizing errors is always the key
[17:15] <balloons> I like the idea of keeping it local and opening a file
[17:17] <balloons> I don't see where you killed the second window stuff -- did you/
[17:19] <DanChapman> Running the current test many times today on a few occasions it opened a second tab while it was typing. Have no idea how though, but it was giving me the same output as the failed test on jenkins
[17:21] <balloons> well we do open a new tab
[17:21] <balloons> timing is everything.. can we add asserts in there to time things better?
[17:24] <balloons> I know we're so limited without introspection
[17:24] <balloons> have to be creative
[17:24] <balloons> to some extent we're sending keystrokes blind
[17:33] <DanChapman> balloons, sorry had screaming child to deal with. Errm well i think asserting we have gone back to a single tab will probably help. AT the mo it closes it without 'checking' that it has gone back to one tab. I'll see where else i can slow it down a bit
[17:33] <balloons> DanChapman, sounds like a plan :-)
[17:43] <DanChapman> balloons, have slowed that test down. let me no what you think
[18:46] <WebbyIT> balloons: tonight there is Automated Testing Workshop? Can it be a good tutorial? :)
[18:46] <balloons> WebbyIT, there is a workshop tonight
[18:46] <balloons> I think in about 4 hours
[18:47] <balloons> if i remeber right :-)
[18:47] <balloons> If you want a jumpstart, read over the tutorials and workshop intro and FAQ..
[18:47] <balloons> :-)
[18:47] <balloons> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/CoreApps/Testing
[18:48] <balloons> WebbyIT, first things first if you've not yet gone through it is http://developer.ubuntu.com/resources/cookbook/mobile/how-to-write-autopilot-tests/
[18:50] <WebbyIT> balloons: yes, I red and did it, but I miss that leap to start working in the real :)
[18:50] <balloons> WebbyIT, well then can you make it this evening?
[18:50] <WebbyIT> balloons: sure
[18:50] <balloons> I'm also very close to finishing the video walking through a real contribution
[18:51] <balloons> here's the text version: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/CoreApps/Testing/ContributeAutopilotTestcase
[18:51] <balloons> I know it's not quite the same, but it's there
[18:51] <WebbyIT> balloons: thanks you :)
[18:54] <balloons> WebbyIT, your most welcome!
[20:44] <adegoodyer> Hey all, hows it going this evening?
[20:45] <balloons> adegoodyer, hello!
[20:45] <adegoodyer> balloons, Hey, how are things?
[20:45] <balloons> busy, but good :-) doing video edits and takes
[20:46] <balloons> so can't really chat, but :-)
[20:47] <adegoodyer> balloons, No worries, I certainly don't envy you this evening! Good luck and sure all will be bafta worthy :oD
[20:47] <balloons> how's it coming for you?
[20:47] <balloons> how's the test?
[20:49] <adegoodyer> balloons, Don't ask lol. I can click the play button to start, but then have no idea how to test for game start.... well I have but the boxes are generated at runtime so don;t even think it's possible to select them for introspection by autopilot.
[20:51] <adegoodyer> balloons, I have committed what I have written so far, so hopefully a good base for someone to further if nothing else.
[20:52] <balloons> adegoodyer, well good.. a start is a start
[20:52] <balloons> do you propose a merge?
[20:52] <balloons> I can probably help with the boxes.. but later :-)
[20:55] <adegoodyer> balloons, No I haven't proposed a merge yet, shall I? The code is pretty much what you executed last night. Not a problem at all, I'm already conscious  of taking loads of your time all the time lol
[20:58] <balloons> adegoodyer, yes of course
[20:58] <balloons> if what you have is a good base, commit it and get it merged
[20:58] <balloons> at the moment there is nothing for dropping letters
[20:58] <balloons> it's best to merge small pieces at  atime
[20:58] <balloons> don't want to write everytestcase and then propose it :-)
[20:58] <balloons> ok.. bbl everyone
[20:59] <adegoodyer> balloons, agreed - ok will do and will leave you alone for a while :oP
[22:07] <balloons> ok whew.. back :-)
[22:07] <balloons> upload time :-)
[22:34] <darran> hi all
[22:34] <balloons> hello darran
[22:44] <darran> is the ubuntu touch testing presentation going to be recorded?
[22:47] <balloons> hey darran if we do any livestreams those will be recorded
[22:47] <balloons> but in addition, I'm uploading a big walkthrough video now to youtube
[22:48] <darran> is the presentation today on livestream or irc?
[22:48] <balloons> So in about another hour or so that will be available to view also, which will help alot if needed.
[22:48] <balloons> darran, a bit of both. I'll be on IRC, with a small intro and taking questions. If someone has a good question, I'll turn on the livestream and answer it
[22:49] <sak> hi guys
[22:49] <balloons> hey sak! good to see you!
[22:49] <sak> same here. Am I in-time for the tutorials?
[22:50] <balloons> you are indeed!
[22:50] <sak> Great.
[22:51] <balloons> we'll start in about 10 mins. I was mentioning to darran that there's also a video walkthrough of everything I'm uploading now, so very soon it'll be on youtube :-)
[22:51] <darran> where are you based out of balloons?
[22:51] <balloons> it's long but in-depth.. you get to follow me through writing 2 tests
[22:51] <balloons> I'm east coast us
[22:54] <sak> East cost here as well
[22:58] <balloons> I tried to host this at different times for everyone.. this is the latest one of them all :-)
[22:59] <balloons> in UTC time that is
[23:00] <balloons> alrighty, let's get this show on the road :-)
[23:00] <sak> nice
[23:00] <balloons> So welcome to everyone who's here for the testing workshop
[23:01] <Noskcaj> i here, but busy with debian stuff
[23:01] <sak> here
[23:01] <balloons> So the goal here is for me to give a little background introduction, then help anyone with specific questions they may have
[23:01] <sak> ok
[23:02] <balloons> if we get into some details or people are interested, we'll do a livestream or hangout
[23:02] <balloons> I know not everyone wants to be on camera, so we'll stick with IRC for the moment. First I'll give a little introduction on what autopilot is, and what we're doing.
[23:02] <balloons> In a nutsheel, Autopilot itself is a functional testing tool allowing us to interact with an application the same way a user would. it can click, swipe, touch, and type in an application by simulating a user
[23:02] <balloons> So we can use the tool to test and ensure our apps work as expected from a user perspective
[23:03] <balloons> This includes apps like the core apps project, whom we've been focusing on to get tests written for
[23:03] <balloons> The core apps are written by community developers and represent the core applications for the ubuntu touch platform.
[23:03] <balloons> So, in order to help contribute tests there are a couple things you'll need:
[23:03] <balloons> the first is an installation of ubuntu saucy or ubuntu raring. It can be in a VM or installed on physical hardware
[23:04] <balloons> it's important to have raring or saucy for the sdk and autopilot stuff..
[23:04] <balloons> the second is what we're here for.. an understanding of autopilot :-)
[23:04] <balloons> So, first things first
[23:04] <balloons> For anyone who hasn't yet gone through the tutorial on developer.ubuntu.com, http://developer.ubuntu.com/resources/cookbook/mobile/how-to-write-autopilot-tests/, please do so now
[23:05] <balloons> it's a nice intro to autopilot and gives you an example app to play around with
[23:05] <sak> how long do we have to go over the tutorial of the link you gave us?
[23:05] <balloons> sak, if you've not yet gone over it.. do it now :-) I'll field questions as you do so
[23:05] <balloons> For those who have gone through the tutorial, let's talk about what to do next
[23:06] <balloons> The basic steps are:
[23:06] <balloons> 1) pick an app and test you want to write
[23:06] <balloons> 2) contribute it
[23:06] <balloons> 3) Profit! (there is no step 3 :-) )
[23:06] <balloons> so how do you know what's needed? there's a handy list found on this page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/CoreApps/Testing
[23:06] <knome> isn't the step 3 "repeat steps 1 and 2" ?
[23:07] <balloons> knome, indeed that's the true step 3
[23:07] <darran> Is there someone that should approve out tests?
[23:07] <balloons> aka, "repeat"
[23:07] <darran> I'm curious who developed autopilot
[23:07] <balloons> darran, yes, the development teams and others will review the tests you write
[23:07] <balloons> just as a normal code contribution
[23:07] <balloons> darran, autopilot itself was developed by a group of folks within the unity team a few years ago
[23:08] <balloons> originally they wrote it to test unity. However since then it's morphed into a general testing tool for use by many applications
[23:08] <Noskcaj> Is it not better to do the writing on Ubuntu itself, rather than the various flavors.
[23:08] <Noskcaj> ?
[23:08] <balloons> you can interact with the folks who wrote the tool directly on #ubuntu-autopilot
[23:09] <Noskcaj> It also tests ubiquity
[23:09] <balloons> Noskcaj, I'm running unity, but you don't have to in order to develop tests
[23:09] <balloons> these core apps should run on other flavors.. I don't know why they wouldn't
[23:10] <balloons> Noskcaj, yes your correct. Besides the core apps the quality team here maintains a project of gtk testcases, including tests for automating the installer. DanChapman was instrumental in getting those written ;-)
[23:10] <balloons> the gtk tests can be found here: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-autopilot-tests
[23:11] <sak> So just to be clear, autopilot is used to test an application from a user's prospective?
[23:11] <balloons> sak, yes that's correct
[23:11] <balloons> as such it's important to use the tool where it makes sense
[23:12] <balloons> test user facing application pieces, not things that are better suited for a unit test.. For example verifying a function handles race conditions, etc
[23:13] <balloons> So, going back to the contributing part for core apps.. There's a handy list of what needs doing.. aka outstanding tests
[23:13] <balloons> the big list is here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone-coreapps/+bugs?field.tag=needs-autopilot-test
[23:14] <darran> is this the place to come if we have questions?
[23:14] <balloons> plenty of places to get invovled. So pick an app, pick a test.. Then your ready to get crackin' on solving it!
[23:14] <sak> Can we use any flavor of ubuntu for autopilot tests, or does it have to be the original ubuntu flavor, unity?
[23:14] <balloons> darran, yes you can ask questions here, in #ubuntu-autopilot, #ubuntu-touch and the mailing lists
[23:16] <balloons> autopilot hackers are in -autopilot, folks like us hang out in -quality, and the devs themselves generally are in -touch
[23:17] <balloons> sak, yes you can write autopilot tests using any flavor, and for any gtk or qt/qml application
[23:18] <balloons> so, if you've picked an app, picked some tests to write, what's next?
[23:18] <balloons> the first step is to run through the tests yourself
[23:19] <balloons> fire up the application and go through the test you want to write
[23:19] <balloons> in english (or your native language if you wish :-) ), write down the steps you take to perform the test
[23:20] <balloons> the basic idea here is to note everything you do as an action
[23:20] <balloons> then after you perform an action, note what happens
[23:20] <balloons> in other words, what you expected
[23:20] <balloons> thus your basis for a testcase look something like this
[23:20] <balloons> click on X button
[23:20] <balloons> the screen changes in Y way
[23:20] <balloons> aka
[23:21] <balloons> perform an action
[23:21] <balloons> expect a result
[23:21] <balloons> all of these actions steps can be simulated by autopilot
[23:21] <balloons> you can have autopilot click, type, etc
[23:22] <balloons> then, for the expected results you've written done, you can write assert statements
[23:22] <balloons> these statements will verify what you expected actually happened
[23:22] <balloons> this is the basis of a good testcase
[23:23] <balloons> So, let's quickly look at the developer tutorial for an example.. I like real world examples :-)
[23:23] <balloons> http://developer.ubuntu.com/resources/tutorials/quality/how-to-write-autopilot-tests/
[23:23] <balloons> if you scroll down to the part "Testing the clear button" you can see a function displayed
[23:24] <balloons> this is a very simple test in the exact format we described
[23:24] <balloons> first we perform an action
[23:24] <balloons> self.pointing_device.click_object(clearButton)
[23:24] <balloons> we then issue some asserts to confirm our results
[23:24] <balloons>   #confirm fields have been wiped
[23:24] <balloons>     self.assertThat(fromField.text, Eventually(Equals('0.0')))
[23:24] <balloons>     self.assertThat(toField.text, Eventually(Equals('0.0')))
[23:25] <balloons> Does that make sense? If you understand that basis for the testcase, we can build your knowledge of syntax and tricks from there :-)
[23:25] <balloons> So I'll stop yapping for a moment and see what questions you all may have, and if anyone has something specific they would like help on
[23:27] <WebbyIT> balloons: where can we find all option to do something? E.g: if i want to swype something, how can i do? And where can I find how can i do? :)
[23:28] <balloons> WebbyIT, great question
[23:28] <balloons> http://unity.ubuntu.com/autopilot/ is the documentation for autopilot
[23:29] <balloons> I know everyone loves reading docs, but there's really just a page or two you should look at to get started
[23:29] <balloons> http://unity.ubuntu.com/autopilot/api/input.html
[23:29] <balloons> this covers the input section; so in your example you want to swipe something
[23:30] <balloons> on that page you'll find the drag command which will do exactly what your looking for
[23:31] <balloons> the other handy page is this one: http://unity.ubuntu.com/autopilot/api/introspection.html
[23:31] <balloons> it covers select_single and select_many
[23:31] <balloons> these are the introspection tools you have available in autopilot
[23:32] <balloons> armed with an understanding of those couple things and you can be dangerous and write some tests :-0
[23:32] <balloons> WebbyIT, does that answer your question?
[23:32] <WebbyIT> balloons: yes, perfectly, thanks :)
[23:39] <balloons> sak, darran how goes it? looking through the tutorial on developer.ubuntu.com?
[23:40] <WebbyIT> balloons: I would have another question :) How can we verify if something is on the display? Eg: on calculator-app I've to swipe to delete a calculation. Now, thank you, I have undestand how to swipe, but how can I check if swype works?
[23:41] <balloons> WebbyIT, we don't directly read the screen in autopilot. This is for various reasons, but basically boils down to it's not sustainable to have a test read pixels (they change too much!)
[23:41] <balloons> so instead, you view the application state
[23:42] <balloons> if you swiped to delete a calculation, you can check and make sure it's been deleted by examining the application.. see if it's stored by the app still, and see if the display data still shows the calculation or not
[23:43] <balloons> I trust this makes sense ;-) You can read the values of say a label or textfield and thus confirm it's no longer there
[23:43] <sak> Completing the installation and setup process
[23:44] <balloons> sak, gotcha :-) ping if you encounter any questions.. Youtube says 10 more mins and the video tutorial will be done.. you'll be able to catch it here: http://youtu.be/qD_e_xqlBbg
[23:44] <WebbyIT> balloons: so, I have first to do a calculation with autopilot, check his ID (every calculation has his ID) or something that identify the calculation, swipe away the result and check if his ID is not longer there?
[23:52] <balloons> WebbyIT, yes that sound correct :-)
[23:52] <balloons> so I would:
[23:52] <balloons> perform an operation and finish it so it hits the history
[23:52] <balloons> grab that calc id and verify it's contents
[23:52] <balloons> swipe it
[23:52] <balloons> verify the id is gone / contents are wiped
[23:53] <WebbyIT> balloons: cool! So, tomorrow I'll try to do my first autopilot test on this :)
[23:54] <balloons> WebbyIT, excellent!
[23:55] <balloons> anyone else have questions?
[23:55] <balloons> WebbyIT, you know where to find me as needed.. I think you've got it down
[23:58] <WebbyIT> balloons: yes, sure :) it was an evening very informative, thanks a lot! :)
[23:58] <WebbyIT> balloons: If nothing else I would go to bed, it's very late here in Italy
[23:59] <balloons> WebbyIT, indeed!
[23:59] <balloons> good night!
[23:59] <balloons> and to everyone else, thank you as well for coming
[23:59] <balloons> dinner time here for me, but do keep in touch if you need help!


[21:35] <johnc4510> The new edition of the Ubuntu Weekly News is now available:
[21:35] <johnc4510> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue184
[22:45] <cjohnston> thanks johnc4510


[01:04] <defendguin> superm1 i got my dvi to hdmi cable  :-)
[01:04] <superm1> nice defendguin
[01:04] <superm1> try it yet/
[01:04] <defendguin> yup
[01:04] <defendguin> TV is about the same but there is a much better difference in the gui
[01:05] <superm1> well as expected, same tv content
[01:05] <defendguin> the fonts on the program manager are tiny
[01:06] <superm1> what resolution you running at now?
[01:06] <defendguin> no idea
[01:06] <defendguin> ouch
[01:07] <superm1> well you can hit ctrl alt right
[01:07] <superm1> and right click the desktop
[01:07] <superm1> and then type xrandr
[01:07] <superm1> in the temrinal
[01:07] <defendguin> i'll ssh in
[01:08] <defendguin> hmmm that doesn't seem like the right number though
[01:08] <superm1> you'll need to export DISPLAY=:0
[01:08] <superm1> on ssh
[01:08] <superm1> to see xrandr info
[01:09] <defendguin> it says 640x480
[01:10] <superm1> well thats not good.... you need that higher
[01:10] <superm1> it should be running 1280x720
[01:10] <superm1> or 1920x540
[01:10] <superm1> or 1920x1080
[01:10] <defendguin> for a regular TV?
[01:10] <superm1> oh regular tv.....
[01:10] <defendguin> yeah
[01:11] <superm1> can you pastebin /var/log/Xorg.0.log
[01:12] <defendguin> http://pastebin.ca/526759
[01:13] <defendguin> the normal dashboard is fine but any of the preferences dialogs the font is so tiny its unreadable
[01:14] <superm1> you probably need to set the DPI appropriately
[01:15] <defendguin> is that something i need to change in my xorg.conf?
[01:15] <superm1> for DPI, yes
[01:15] <superm1> its being set to 25,25 according to that log
[01:16] <superm1> do you have any funny modelines or anythign in your xorg.conf
[01:16] <superm1> given the fact that you have UseEdidDpi on?
[01:16] <defendguin> Section "Monitor"
[01:16] <defendguin>     Identifier     "Generic Monitor"
[01:16] <defendguin>     HorizSync       28.0 - 51.0
[01:16] <defendguin>     VertRefresh     43.0 - 60.0
[01:16] <defendguin>     Option         "DPMS"
[01:16] <defendguin> EndSection
[01:16] <superm1> there you go
[01:16] <superm1> comment out that horizsync and vertrefresh
[01:16] <superm1> let it figure that stuff out from the driver
[01:17] <defendguin> i dont see any DPI specifis stuff besides this
[01:18] <superm1> well you can add an option for DPI if it doesnt calculate right
[01:18] <superm1> after commenting those two out
[01:18] <defendguin> FontPath        "/usr/share/fonts/X11/100dpi"
[01:18] <defendguin>     FontPath        "/usr/share/fonts/X11/75dpi"
[01:19] <defendguin> ok i commented them out and killed X
[01:20] <defendguin> fonts still look tiny
[01:20] <superm1> is the res still 640x480 though?
[01:20] <superm1> thats what I was getting at with that
[01:21] <defendguin> yup
[01:21] <defendguin> i thought that was normal for a regular CRT
[01:21] <superm1> well i think it should be doing 1024x768, but i cant be certain
[01:21] <defendguin> wouldn't that make the fonts look smaller?
[01:22] <defendguin> if the resolution were increased
[01:22] <superm1> well here is how ot fix the dpi
[01:22] <superm1> in the monitor section
[01:22] <superm1> add this:
[01:22] <superm1> Option "DPI" "100x100"
[01:22] <defendguin> ok
[01:23] <defendguin> lets see what that does
[01:23] <defendguin> much better
[01:23] <defendguin> hmmm i may try 75 75
[01:24] <defendguin> this is a bit big
[01:24] <superm1> 100x100 is the recommended size for tvs
[01:24] <superm1> especially once you make the tv work at 1024x768 (if you can)
[01:25] <superm1> okay time for me to get going.  i'll be back on later this evenin likely
[01:25] <defendguin> ok 75 75 looks about right for this resolution
[01:40] <rogue780|mythser> anyone here use proftpd
[01:41] <rogue780|mythser> ?
[03:14] <tgm4883_laptop> whats the correct way to purge the mythtv database for a reinstall
[03:31] <Xenocide> superm1, myth looks fantastic on hdtv
[03:31] <Xenocide> i coudnl't believe it
[04:07] <superm1> hehe
[04:07] <superm1> yes it does
[04:07] <superm1> you need hd content now
[07:15] <defendguin> yo yo
[09:17] <gardengnome> morning
[03:52] <superm1> imbrandon, you there?  Wanted to ping you again about getting pegasus to build on buildds.
[04:16] <imbrandon> superm1, i'm here ( and off work today ) so i'll do it nowish
[04:27] <superm1> awesome imbrandon thanks :)
[04:28] <imbrandon> superm1, np, i'll poke in here when i get it updated
[04:28] <gardengnome> i hope the mainboard will behave in this new case. otherwise i'm gonna have a crying fit :)
[04:28] <superm1> gardengnome, what was happening in your old box?
[04:30] <gardengnome> it would hang on reboot after a few hours. i suspect it happened because the case was bent slightly and would stress the PCB
[04:30] <gardengnome> maybe some hair crack.
[04:30] <gardengnome> i'll find out
[04:30] <gardengnome> if it survives one week, i'll keep it
[04:31] <superm1> hopefully that resolves it...
[04:31] <gardengnome> yes
[04:31] <superm1> I was looking at my 'sensors' output yesterday for one of my boxes that is unstable
[04:31] <superm1> -12V:  -18.27V
[04:31] <gardengnome> although i put a lot of work into that old case.
[04:31] <gardengnome> wow
[04:31] <gardengnome> sounds good
[04:31] <superm1> i dont know if the sensor is failing or if that might be the cause
[04:31] <gardengnome> did you check that with a fluke meter?
[04:31] <superm1> because in the bios there isnt even a -12V output
[04:31] <superm1> i didnt bring my mult to my internship
[04:31] <superm1> left it at school
[04:32] <gardengnome> they should equip cell phones with those
[04:32] <superm1> haha
[04:32] <superm1> even so though, where can I find a -12V rail for sure to probe?
[04:32] <superm1> the pings on the atx connector aren't exposed
[04:32] <superm1> s/pings/pins/
[04:32] <gardengnome> make them so then ;)
[04:33] <superm1> thats safety there.
[04:33] <gardengnome> true
[04:33] <gardengnome> which is also the reason why i'll be replacing a few PSUs here. i'm not comfortable anymore with some because i'd exchange fans in them a few years ago
[04:34] <superm1> well the thing is this whole machine was just built in august last year
[04:34] <superm1> and its been this way since
[04:35] <superm1> every 24 - 89 hours it will freeze
[04:35] <superm1> with an indiscernable kernel oops
[04:35] <gardengnome> great
[04:35] <superm1> and i've yet to figure out what it was in the box causing it
[04:37] <gardengnome> VIA? ;)
[04:38] <superm1> nope :(
[04:38] <superm1> i pulled out all the tuners in it too
[04:38] <superm1> its just got a few hard drives, a gig of ram and a video card now
[04:38] <superm1> (and of course memtest comes up clean)
[04:38] <gardengnome> the GF donated her old computer. i found out that 7-8 capacitors are broken +after* installing my capture card. now she's told me she knew about that *sigh*
[04:39] <superm1> haha
[04:39] <gardengnome> i should throw away everything even remotely related to computers, sell some internal organs to get money and start over with fresh, working parts.
[07:14] <gardengnome> rogue780|mythser: :)
[08:38] <superm1> imbrandon, once you've got the buildd account set up, 'sudo weekly_build' will build source packages on pegasus.  it should be in your $PATH (its in /usr/local/bin).  The resultant packages end up in /var/cache/mythbuntu_build/builds/pool/feisty/weekly
[08:45] <superm1> imbrandon, and falcon is set up on there too already - so 'su mythbuntu -c "falcon update"' will handle updating when the binaries are done from the buildds
[08:49] <imbrandon> kk
[08:49] <imbrandon> sounds good
[09:50] <gardengnome> hey
[09:50] <gardengnome> is there any .deb with unofficial themes?
[09:54] <superm1> I had one, but took it down since the package is being scrapped in favor of doing debs for each one
[09:54] <superm1> the source for it is still up on revu though
[09:54] <gardengnome> oh, nifty
[09:55] <superm1> Daviey is supposed to be doing the individual ones
[09:55] <gardengnome> hum
[09:55] <superm1> and submitting them to revu and such
[09:55] <gardengnome> juski has updated his themes
[09:55] <superm1> the licensing is all settled with them and such too
[09:55] <superm1> recnetly?
[09:55] <gardengnome> i guess i'll better get the fresh ones
[09:55] <superm1> like a few days ago?
[09:55] <gardengnome> yeah
[09:55] <gardengnome> yes.
[09:55] <superm1> oh neat i better update them when i get home tonite too then
[09:55] <superm1> improvements?
[09:55] <gardengnome> um
[09:55] <gardengnome> it's shinier :)
[09:55] <gardengnome> http://juski.co.uk/
[09:56] <gardengnome> see the news there
[09:56] <superm1> shinier is typically synonymous with better  :)
[09:56] <superm1> oh no blootube updates
[09:56] <superm1> no big deal for me then
[09:57] <gardengnome> heh
[10:04] <superm1> gardengnome, hows the svn trunk packages going?
[10:04] <superm1> now that you have the mythweb patch in, whats left?
[10:04] <gardengnome> the mythweather patch still needs to go in. i have been busy with other things lately
[10:05] <superm1> oops yea i meant mythweather
[10:05] <gardengnome> right now, i'm setting up my "new" mythtv box.
[10:05] <superm1> it should hopefully apply pretty cleanly
[10:05] <superm1> is that it though?
[10:05] <gardengnome> which means i can try the packages in a better environment now
[10:05] <gardengnome> um
[10:05] <gardengnome> pretty much, yes
[10:06] <superm1> do you have hosting sorted out already for these?
[10:07] <gardengnome> well, i assumed i'd provide you with the .diff.gz/build script and you guys build them on your buildd
[10:07] <gardengnome> i've got a server, though
[10:07] <superm1> well it might make sense to just host them on mythbuntu.org
[10:08] <gardengnome> yup
[10:08] <superm1> i dont know, i'm not sure how this buildd stuff will work as of yet
[10:09] <superm1> are you adapting a revision number in the version naming too
[10:09] <superm1> or just dates like the current packages
[10:10] <gardengnome> i think i've got the revision and the date in tzhere
[10:11] <gardengnome> i haven't been thinking a lot about that ;)
[10:11] <superm1> are 0.20-fixes revision numbers the same as trunk?
[10:11] <superm1> or a completely different scheme?
[10:11] <gardengnome> they're the same as trunk.
[10:12] <superm1> hm
[10:12] <superm1> well perhaps that is something we both need to think about before either of us have packages set out in the wild
[10:12] <gardengnome> yup
[10:13] <superm1> perhaps instead of dates at all, use something like fixes-REVISION
[10:13] <superm1> and trunk-REVISION
[10:13] <gardengnome> that'd be smart
[10:13] <gardengnome> because dates don't mean anything
[10:13] <superm1> well for fixes, dates are fine
[10:13] <superm1> but trunk i think they mean nothing
[10:13] <superm1> more so
[10:14] <superm1> only problem is this will stray completely from the debian-multimedia way of doing things
[10:15] <gardengnome> what about the libmyth-0.20 package? maybe it's name would have to change every time the API version increases
[10:15] <gardengnome> (see mythfrontend --version)
[10:15] <gardengnome> truwe
[10:15] <superm1> well that name changed
[10:15] <gardengnome> true*
[10:15] <superm1> its reflected in my latest packaging
[10:15] <superm1> oh you mean the normal libmyth-0.20
[10:15] <gardengnome> yes.
[10:15] <superm1> not the -dev
[10:15] <superm1> yes everytime that the api changes it would have to change
[10:16] <superm1> which at most is once a year
[10:16] <gardengnome> no
[10:16] <gardengnome> way more often, at least back then...
[10:17] <gardengnome> remember, we're talking about trunk here
[10:17] <superm1> good point
[10:17] <gardengnome> Library API version     : 0.20.20070327-1
[10:17] <superm1> well i guess i dont know "how" frequently then it does change
[10:17] <gardengnome> well
[10:17] <gardengnome> the build script could change the package name
[10:17] <superm1> where does that info come from?
[10:17] <gardengnome> mythfrontend --version
[10:18] <gardengnome> yours will likely be different
[10:18] <superm1> well the build script won't know that
[10:18] <gardengnome> the build script can grep in the source
[10:18] <gardengnome> it's got to be defined somewhere
[10:18] <superm1> well whats the advantage
[10:18] <superm1> of having it in the version number though?
[10:19] <superm1> why not just use the major version number (ex trunk is 0.21 and fixes 0.20)?
[10:19] <gardengnome> well, if there's one thing i remember from reading all those maintainer guides
[10:19] <gardengnome> you are supposed to rename the package/append a version string if the API changes, AFAIK
[10:19] <gardengnome> or ABI
[10:20] <gardengnome> thing is, $stuff will break if the plugins are linked against the wrong version. usually, you'll gert a message saying that you need to recompile the plugins
[10:20] <superm1> right
[10:20] <superm1> but if plugins and mythtv are built at the same time
[10:20] <gardengnome> but that could be fixed by having the plugins depend on the right version of libmyth.
[10:20] <superm1> you upgrade both at the same time
[10:21] <superm1> well why dont you just grep for that number you had
[10:21] <superm1> for the api version
[10:21] <superm1> and see if you can find where it is in the sources
[10:21] <gardengnome> we can't just make trunk libmyh-0.21 because the API version still is 0.20.20070327-1
[10:22] <gardengnome> i'm probably just being a smart-ass here, but i don't know how this should be handled
[10:22] <gardengnome> allright, i'll grep
[10:22] <superm1> hm so many ways to handle versions here.  i wonder what is really most appropriate in a debian/changelog verison number then
[10:22] <superm1> I *think* the optimal solution is to grab the revision by svn info | grep Revision | cut -b 11-
[10:22] <superm1> or something to that effect
[10:22] <superm1> and use that
[10:23] <superm1> because then you will make plugins depend on the same Revision number
[10:23] <superm1> and you solve the api problem
[10:23] <superm1> and make ubuntu normal packages adapt the same thing
[10:23] <gardengnome> yep.
[10:24] <gardengnome> um..
[10:24] <gardengnome> wait a second
[10:24] <gardengnome> libs/libmyth/mythcontext.h:#define MYTH_BINARY_VERSION "0.20.20070327-1"
[10:24] <gardengnome> here we go
[10:24] <superm1> but again, you really dont want to mix and match in the first place different svn co's
[10:24] <superm1> of plugins and mythtv
[10:24] <superm1> so isnt svn rev# a better way to go
[10:25] <gardengnome> yes, we can fix that by using versioned depends, i guess.
[10:25] <gardengnome> superm1: see version.pro in the top level directory of the mythtv source
[10:25] <superm1> so the current naming scheme is $MAJORVERSION-svn$DATE-0.0ubuntu$UBUNTUVERSION
[10:26] <gardengnome> hum
[10:26] <superm1> I say instead we adapt $MAJORVERSION-fixes$REVISION-0.0ubuntu$UBUNTUVERSION and $MAJORVERSION-trunk$REVISION-0.0$UBUNTUVERSION
[10:27] <superm1> might need to add an epoch though to override the current naming scheme
[10:27] <superm1> because f is < s
[10:28] <gardengnome> but $REVISION can be the same for trunk and fixes
[10:28] <superm1> right
[10:28] <superm1> so we need to specify trunk and fixes in the version numbers
[10:28] <superm1> so an example would then be:
[10:29] <superm1> 0.20-fixes13585-0.0ubuntu0mythbuntu1
[10:29] <superm1> for fixes
[10:29] <superm1> 0.20-trunk13585-0.0ubuntu0mythbuntu1
[10:29] <superm1> for trunk
[10:30] <gardengnome> what would happen if an user had both repositories (for fixes and for trunk) in his sources.list?
[10:30] <superm1> keescook, could you comment about version numbers?  Would 0.20-svn20070122* be newer as recognized by debian or 0.20-fixes13585* or 0.20-trunk13585?
[10:30] <superm1> I think trunk overrides
[10:31] <superm1> because t > f
[10:31] <keescook> you can test with dpkg actually.  dpkg --compare-versions
[10:32] <keescook> dpkg --compare-versions 0.20-svn20070122 gt 0.20-fixes13585 && echo newer
[10:32] <keescook> newer
[10:32] <keescook> yeah svn > fixes
[10:32] <superm1> thats a shame, so do you need to add an epoch to override that behavior?
[10:33] <keescook> why not bump the svn date?
[10:33] <superm1> well we are considering dropping the date
[10:33] <superm1> and using revision numbers instead
[10:33] <superm1> and the word fixes and turnk
[10:33] <superm1> and the word fixes and trunk
[10:33] <gardengnome> date could still be the same for both packages
[10:33] <keescook> yeah, probably keep it for the 0.20 lifetime, and once 0.21 comes out, switch to trunk/fixes?
[10:34] <superm1> hm.  then for the current packages how is the most ideal way to handle this?
[10:35] <superm1> so that trunk will always be > fixes packages
[10:35] <superm1> and be clear that its >
[10:36] <keescook> many people use "+", so maybe 0.21-trunk  and 0.21-trunk+fixes123  ?
[10:36] <keescook> maybe I'm misunderstanding the needed packages
[10:36] <superm1> ooh.  so maybe for fixes - 0.20+fixes123 and then 0.20+trunk123
[10:37] <superm1> the idea is going to be for the weekly builds for those interested in more up to date trunk or -fixes branch packages
[10:37] <keescook> oh, I see, the svn# is going to be the same, since it's the same svn repo
[10:37] <superm1> right
[10:37] <superm1> just two different branches
[10:38] <keescook> yeah, I think that gets you what you want, t > f always.
[10:38] <superm1> still have that ugly svn in the name right now though that needs to be ditched
[10:38] <keescook> seems that "+" is > than "-"
[10:39] <superm1> oh then problem solved
[10:40] <superm1> and when 0.21 is the new version number adapted in trunk it will have to rename the package to be 0.21-trunkNUM, once 0.21 is released they will turn into 0.21+trunkNUM until 0.22 is announced
[10:42] <superm1> gardengnome, you follow that?
[10:42] <keescook> aaah, yeah, sneaky
[10:43] <keescook> stable releases get "-"'s, and the daily builds get "+"s.  I'll see if this is totally crack or not.  :P
[10:43] <gardengnome> um, yes. almost falling asleep, though :)
[10:43] <superm1> that seems like a much more sensible way to be using the +/- anyway as in 0.20 release + that
[10:43] <gardengnome> is this channel being logged?
[10:43] <superm1> yes gardengnome
[10:43] <gardengnome> good
[10:43] <gardengnome> because i'm great at forgetting things.
[10:43] <superm1> or 0.21 release - this
[10:43] <gardengnome> when do we change the trunk packages to 0.21? once they change the binary version to 0.21?
[10:43] <superm1> keescook, oh thats a step even further, you think stable should still use -svnDATE?
[10:44] <superm1> i was thinking, switch it all to this
[10:44] <superm1> yes gardengnome
[10:44] <superm1> so the weekly build script can grep for that possibly
[10:44] <superm1> won't be too bad to do
[10:45] <keescook> superm1: for gutsy, there is no reason to require -svnDATE for 0.21.  For 0.20, we should probably stick to -svnDATE.
[10:45] <gardengnome> superm1: AFAIK, the binary version is changed very shortly before a new release, so sometimes we won't even have to bother
[10:45] <gardengnome> what about changes in -fixes that break compatibility? eg when the protocol version changed in fixes after 0.20
[10:45] <superm1> okay then to summarize the decisions and make sure we're on the same page:
[10:45] <superm1> for 0.20:----
[10:45] <superm1> gutsy gets the same version numbers
[10:45] <superm1> svnDATE
[10:46] <superm1> weekly fixes get
[10:46] <superm1> 0.20+fixesNUM
[10:46] <superm1> trunk gets
[10:46] <superm1> 0.20+fixesNUM
[10:46] <superm1> for 0.21----
[10:46] <superm1> everything switches to 0.21-fixesNUM and 0.21-trunkNUM
[10:47] <superm1> err trunk gets 0.20+trunkNUM not 0.20+fixesNUM
[10:47] <keescook> line below "trunk gets" should read "0.20+trunkNUM" yeah
[10:47] <superm1> yes
[10:47] <keescook> okay, so, let's say 0.21 is released before gutsy releases.
[10:47] <keescook> what would go into gutsy, -fixes or -trunk?
[10:48] <superm1> well depends on when 0.21 happens
[10:48] <superm1> if its is like two weeks before ubuntu release
[10:48] <superm1> and we rush to get it in
[10:48] <keescook> right, I should say "before gutsy freezes"
[10:48] <superm1> i think it'd be fixesNUM where NUM is the checkout number of the ""release""
[10:48] <superm1> or possibly even just 0.21
[10:48] <superm1> with nothing attached to it
[10:49] <superm1> depending on how close to release it is
[10:50] <keescook> hm, ya know, in looking at version numbers, perhaps we shouldn't use "-" ... isn't that supposed to be reserved for the packaging revision?
[10:50] <superm1> that's what we've been using though
[10:50] <keescook> yeah, I know...
[10:50] <superm1> is that a bad idea then?
[10:51] <keescook> yeah... this is where my knowledge falls down a bit
[10:51] <keescook> for apparmor, I used "+" because I'd seen it done in places like firefox and inkscape
[10:51] <superm1> i remember reading about the +'s and -'s last year
[10:52] <superm1> because + was just introduced recently
[10:52] <superm1> in debian
[10:54] <superm1> http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html#s-f-Version
[10:54] <superm1> so + and - and . are all valid
[10:57] <superm1> another possibility here it to migrate the packages to svn-buildpackage
[10:57] <superm1> i haven't use it before myself, but it might just make sense for this
[10:58] <keescook> isn't there a bzr-buildpackage too?
[10:58] <superm1> I think so
[10:58] <superm1> I'll add these on my todo list to look into
[10:58] <superm1> for now, the solution discussed above with the wrapper shell script i have written for weekly builds will do the trick
[11:09] <superm1> keescook, I think that once libhdhomerun gets uploaded these next few days i'm going to go for MOTU.  I'm assuming i'm supposed to CC you and other people who have sponsored on the app.  Any recommendations I should say in it?
[11:11] <keescook> superm1: I'm happy to support you going for motu.  For details, I'd just call attention to all the packages you've got in universe already.  :)
[11:11] <superm1> k :)
[11:35] <ompaul> superm1, put all your "kudos" on your wiki page before you do it, if you want ping me and I'll give you some pointers if you are not happy about it
[11:36] <ompaul> I went through it before I got into this very bad crack :)
[11:36] <superm1> sure that'd be great.  i haven't worked on my wiki page for ages
[11:36] <superm1> haha
[11:36] <superm1> last time i touched it was when i went for ubuntu member
[11:39] <superm1> ompaul, i finally got around to watching that video you sent me yesterday
[11:39] <superm1> unfortunately the questions at the end were completely inaudible
[11:39] <ompaul> woops
[11:39] <ompaul> superm1, sorry the motu was not what I went for
[11:40] <ompaul> :)
[11:40] <superm1> what'd you run for member?
[11:40] <ompaul> I used to be one
[11:40] <superm1> oh it times out?
[11:40] <ompaul> long story and nothing to do with gnewsense
[11:40] <ompaul> it does
[11:40] <superm1> oh okay
[11:40] <ompaul> but I pulled mine as I said long story
[11:41] <ompaul> keep the karma high and you will be okay :)
[11:41] <superm1> well most of the stuff I'm doing doesn't earn me karma.  hm better start using launchpad more then i guess
[11:41] <ompaul> yeap
[11:42] <superm1> was is it 2 years to time out?
[11:42] <ompaul> but what you do should get karma
[11:42] <ompaul> yeap
[11:42] <superm1> ah i got plenty of time to bump it up then
[11:42] <superm1> especially once this ubiquity mess is straight with mythbuntu
[11:42] <ompaul> superm1, the questions iirc were why was there such a low spend from the embedded people on kernel dev
[11:43] <ompaul> superm1, some file system stuff
[11:43] <superm1> i was suprised to hear about how xfs functions
[11:43] <superm1> about writing its data last
[11:43] <superm1> and metadata first
[11:43] <ompaul> superm1, ehhh stop
[11:43] <superm1> ?
[11:43] <ompaul> superm1, you are so wrong that should have been: <superm1> i was suprised to hear about how xfs malfunctions
[11:43] <superm1> haha
[11:44] <superm1> not an xfs fan?
[11:44] <superm1> lets see, likely not zfs - jfs?
[11:44] <ompaul> ext3
[11:45] <ompaul> for all things
[11:45] <superm1> how do you deal with the slow IO though?
[11:45] <ompaul> scsi if I need fast
[11:45] <superm1> i mean try copying a big file or deleting a big file
[11:45] <superm1> and see what happens to the CPU
[11:45] <superm1> its pegged
[11:45] <ompaul> file transfers are not a large part of my life
[11:46] <ompaul> so I don't suffer it a lot
[11:46] <superm1> ah -
[11:46] <superm1> well its a big problem for a mythbox
[11:46] <superm1> you can lose a lot of data if your stuck deleting a file at the same time you do video capture
[11:47] <ompaul> let me come back in a moment I want to read the wiki for a moment before I ask the next question, I want to know what I am asking :)
[11:48] <gardengnome> wee, mythweb on my PDA!
[11:48] <gardengnome> \o/
[11:48] <superm1> k
[11:48] <superm1> gardengnome, your not cool until you have mythweb on opera mini on a little mobile phone screen.....
[11:48] <superm1> but on a pda is still pretty neat :)
[11:48] <gardengnome> (loading the guide just cost me 2x 0.19. fsck.)
[11:49] <superm1> damn why?
[11:49] <gardengnome> superm1: it's a palmone treo and i_'m using GPRS. does that count? ;)
[11:49] <superm1> Yes it does.
[11:49] <superm1> gardengnome, your now cool.
[11:49] <gardengnome> superm1: because my phone plan is really expensive for GPRS. i'll get a better one for this PDA
[11:49] <gardengnome> 24 cent for one megabyte sounds reasonable to me
[11:49] <superm1> you guys dont have unlimited plans?
[11:49] <gardengnome> we do
[11:50] <gardengnome> but i'm not going to pay 30/month just for that
[11:51] <superm1> i guess i can see that.  its only $10 a month here for one, so i can easily justify it
[11:51] <gardengnome> true
[11:51] <superm1> with how much time i spend reading gmail in the car on the way anywhere
[11:51] <gardengnome> i usually spend two or three bucks for my phone a month, that's why i don't like expensive plans.
[11:52] <gardengnome> i'll go prepaid for my GPRS needs
[11:52] <gardengnome> ICQ and SSH on the palm is cool, too
[11:53] <superm1> gotta be slow though
[11:53] <gardengnome> although screen and irssi are a bit hard to use
[11:53] <ompaul> superm1, so looking at the other stuff in that video would you think there should be some motivation for the acsync kernels and aio for the drive
[11:53] <gardengnome> superm1: ssh?
[11:53] <ompaul> sorry
[11:53] <superm1> aio for the drive?
[11:53] <ompaul> superm1, so looking at the other stuff in that video would you think there should be some motivation for the acsync kernels / aio to drive it forward
[11:53] <superm1> gardengnome, yes ssh slow i'd think
[11:53] <ompaul> I should go to bed :)
[11:53] <gardengnome> superm1: right, but it's usable
[11:54] <gardengnome> superm1: vim might give you fits, but it's ok for quick checks
[11:54] <superm1> ompaul, what vendor would benefit most from async kernels is the real question
[11:54] <superm1> acsync*
[11:54] <ompaul> ya - google I suppose
[11:55] <ompaul> all them clock cycles going to waste being used for counting not working
[11:55] <superm1> gardengnome, i was really proud when i drove home last year (roch to chic) and help a mobile phone int connection for 4 hours
[11:55] <superm1> chatting away on aim
[11:55] <superm1> and gtalk
[11:56] <gardengnome> superm1: i hope you were not the one operating the car ;)
[11:56] <superm1> haha nope
[11:56] <superm1> ompaul, does google sponsor any kernel dev ever?
[11:56] <gardengnome> superm1: it's pretty sad: being online while interacting with the real world ;)
[11:56] <ompaul> andrew morton?
[11:56] <gardengnome> superm1: um, andrew morton?
[11:56] <ompaul> superm1, ^^
[11:56] <ompaul> superm1, they have several on staff
[11:56] <superm1> ompaul, wasnt sure :)
[11:56] <superm1> dont look into that sort of thing very often
[11:57] <ompaul> superm1, the guy who was talking was am :)
[11:57] <superm1> i should have specified - other than him :)
[11:58] <superm1> okay guys i need to get going.  few more sims to go and then i'm headed home
[11:58] <superm1> ompaul, get some sleep
[11:59] <ompaul> superm1, I should, I got the richard feynman book of letters this evening - I am afraid to go to bed - I will spend the night reading not sleeping
[11:59] <ompaul> irc is thus easier for the soul :)
[11:59] <gardengnome> ompaul: better than rotting away in IC, huh?
[11:59] <gardengnome> heh
[11:59] <gardengnome> whatever works for you :)
[12:00] <superm1> ompaul, you geek :)
[12:01] <ompaul> haha
[12:02] <gardengnome> bah
[12:02] <gardengnome> such a show-off.
[12:02] <gardengnome> ;)
[12:02] <gardengnome> beer++
[12:03] <ompaul> snail mail ftw :)
[12:04] <gardengnome> drool wtf :)
[12:04] <gardengnome> http://www.koenigsbacher.de/includes/binary_details.php?id=507&show=1
[12:09] <ompaul> it would be the same kind of stuff afics
[12:09] <ompaul> disk io
[12:09] <ompaul> pushing down the method of getting the whole thing to go faster for the sake of the media processing
[12:11] <gardengnome> true
[12:11] <gardengnome> there is a low-latency kernel, right?
[12:11] <gardengnome>                       linux-image-lowlatency - Low latency Linux kernel image
[12:11] <ompaul> there is, and ubuntu is heading towards kernel.org
[12:12] <gardengnome> what does that mean? ubuntu is going to ship vanilla kernels?
[12:12] <ompaul> they want to try to get to that
[12:12] <gardengnome> nice
[12:12] <ompaul> any delta is a bad delta unless it is my delta :)
[12:12] <gardengnome> it won't always work.. eg some distros were already using the new wlan stack
[12:12] <gardengnome> true :)
[12:21] <gardengnome> ah, great
[12:22] <gardengnome> the mythweb authentication stuff works slightly different in edgy's apache than in feisty's apache.
[12:22] <gardengnome> "    #  * If you're running Apache earlier than 2.2, you will need to use
[12:22] <gardengnome>     #    the AuthDigestFile command instead of AuthUserFile (3rd line above).
[12:22] <gardengnome> "
[12:23] <gardengnome> i was going to make something debconf-ish to allow people to protect their mythweb install, but this makes porting those changes to edgy slightly harder
[12:24] <ompaul> I have not had a big look at mythtv, so it raises a question in my mind, does it have a set of confs in a single location
[12:25] <gardengnome> the whole configuration is stored in an SQL database
[12:25] <gardengnome> mysql, that is
[12:26] <ompaul> so dumping it with some xml tags and allowing them to be used in the next one might be useful :)
[12:26] <ompaul> as in the next upgrade
[12:26] <gardengnome> i just restore my database
[12:26] <ompaul> meta data this
[12:26] <ompaul> hmm
[12:26] <gardengnome> or rather the most important parts, like channel lineup
[12:27] <gardengnome> meta data for recordings? you can already do that with mytharchive or nuvexport
[12:27] <gardengnome> i'm not sure about videos stored in mythvideo