[01:26] <marti1125> hello hola
[01:28] <marti1125> e ubuntu does not have virus?
[01:28] <marti1125> why ubuntu  have virus? why?
[01:28] <bazhang> marti1125, support in #ubuntu
[15:54] <dholbach> hello
[15:55] <dholbach> geser, jpds, persia: around?
[15:55]  * asomething waves
[15:55] <jpds> Afternoon.
[15:55] <dholbach> hyperair, porthose, asomething, stefanlsd: around too?
[15:55] <dholbach> hi asomething :)
[15:55] <hyperair> i'm here =)
[15:55] <stefanlsd> dholbach: hi, i'm here
[15:56] <dholbach> rock and roll
[15:56]  * geser waves
[15:58]  * porthose waves
[15:59] <dholbach> persia should be around in a bit
[16:03]  * persia waves
[16:03] <dholbach> ah great
[16:03] <dholbach> #startmeeting
[16:03] <jpds> Right, awesomeness.
[16:03] <MootBot> Meeting started at 10:03. The chair is dholbach.
[16:03] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:03] <dholbach> [TOPIC] Chow Loong Jin's application
[16:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  Chow Loong Jin's application
[16:03] <hyperair> oho. it begins
[16:03] <dholbach> hyperair: how are you doing?
[16:03] <hyperair> fine thanks =)
[16:03] <dholbach> everything alright? :)
[16:03] <dholbach> perfect
[16:03]  * hyperair nods
[16:04] <dholbach> in your application you say that you'd like to do other (and probably bigger) things in the future - do you have any ideas already?
[16:04] <dholbach> any people you've worked with some more in the last time?
[16:04] <hyperair> people i've worked with..
[16:04] <hyperair> there's POX
[16:05] <hyperair> and Dktrtranz (is that how you spell his name? i've been tab completing all the while)
[16:05] <hyperair> as for ideas, no, i don't really do.
[16:05] <dholbach> hyperair: DktrKranz - you were close enough :-)
[16:05] <hyperair> whoops =p
[16:05] <dholbach> hyperair: you're mostly interested in mono-related packages?
[16:06] <jpds> hyperair: How are the mirror status on sg.r.u.c?
[16:06] <hyperair> dholbach: not particularly, it just happens that banshee caught my interest.
[16:06] <hyperair> dholbach: and its plugins, all of which are written in C#
[16:06] <hyperair> er extensions
[16:07] <dholbach> hyperair: I'm sure you make jcastro very happy because of that :)
[16:07] <hyperair> jpds: it's holding up on its own for the time being =) i'm in malaysia and not within ssh-able reach of the server.
[16:07] <hyperair> dholbach: i hope so =)
[16:08] <hyperair> in fact, regarding banshee, i recently started a banshee-daily repository, and wrote a script (which i will probably put somewhere online) which git pull's and generates a changelog entry, builds, signs and uploads to the ppa
[16:09] <dholbach> geser, persia: do you have any questions already?
[16:09] <jpds> hyperair: That would make Mark happy :)
[16:09] <persia> hyperair, You mention that you think you could collaborate better.  Could you share your plans to do so?
[16:09] <dholbach> nice, I'm sure others would appreciate it, do you think it'd make sense to have something like that in ubuntu-dev-tools?
[16:10] <hyperair> persia: team-maintain every package i maintain, instead of on my own, and discuss things with the team and possibly others
[16:11] <persia> hyperair, OK.  In that case, perhaps you could explain how you don't collaborate enough now :)
[16:12] <hyperair> persia: like i mentioned in my application, i don't really consider what i could possibly achieve by collaborating with others.
[16:13] <hyperair> and regarding what i've done since the time i wrote the application, i've recently created a pkg-geany team to help maintain geany and its plugins in debian
[16:13] <dholbach> hyperair: did you hear about https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/PatchTaggingGuidelines already?
[16:14] <hyperair> er no i didn't
[16:14] <dholbach> (I noticed that you hadn't made use of it in bug 248705)
[16:15] <dholbach> which is not a big deal, I just noticed :)
[16:15] <hyperair> ah yes, i didn't. i actually submitted the fix upstream
[16:15] <hyperair> =)
[16:15] <hyperair> i'll take note of this in the future
[16:15] <dholbach> jpds, persia, geser: any more questions - I'm all set
[16:16] <persia> hyperair, You mention you're using PPAs to handle stable backports of some applications.  Have you tried the ubuntu-backports process?
[16:16] <jpds> I'm happy with his application.\
[16:16] <hyperair> persia: not really. mostly because when i use the PPAs to handle these backports.. they're stuff that exceed what can enter the -backports
[16:17] <hyperair> like new upstream releases which are more than bugfix releases
[16:17] <hyperair> i did make use of the backports for banshee-extension-mirage though
[16:17] <hyperair> but even then i still maintain that in the PPA.
[16:17] <persia> -backports is precisely for that: to the degree that bugfixes aren't accepted in -backports.
[16:18] <hyperair> hmm i'll go read up more about the process then
[16:19] <dholbach> geser?
[16:19] <geser> no questions
[16:20] <dholbach> great, persia: all set too?
[16:20] <persia> I'm all set.
[16:20] <dholbach> [VOTE] Shall Chow Loong Jin become Contributing Developer?
[16:20] <MootBot> Please vote on:  Shall Chow Loong Jin become Contributing Developer?.
[16:20] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[16:20] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[16:20] <dholbach> +1
[16:20] <MootBot> +1 received from dholbach. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[16:20] <jpds> +1
[16:20] <MootBot> +1 received from jpds. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[16:20] <geser> +1
[16:20] <MootBot> +1 received from geser. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[16:20] <hyperair> correction: banshee-extension-mirage was by laney, not me. my memory's a bit messed up by that
[16:20] <persia> +1
[16:20] <MootBot> +1 received from persia. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
[16:20] <dholbach> #endvote
[16:20] <dholbach> @endvote
[16:20] <hyperair> =D
[16:20] <dholbach> [endvote]
[16:20] <MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
[16:21] <dholbach> congratulations hyperair
[16:21] <jpds> Congrats hyperair.
[16:21] <stefanlsd> hyperair: congrats!
[16:21] <hyperair> thanks =)
[16:21] <Laney> \o
[16:21] <dholbach> [TOPIC] Charlie Smotherman's application
[16:21] <jmarki> whoopee hyperair!
[16:21] <MootBot> New Topic:  Charlie Smotherman's application
[16:21] <dholbach> hey porthose - how's life?
[16:21] <hyperair> thanks jmarki =)
[16:21] <davidc_> gong hei
[16:21] <porthose> dholbach: can't complain
[16:21] <dholbach> great :)
[16:22] <dholbach> porthose: so you're requesting upload privileges for ampache{,-themes} and coherence
[16:22] <dholbach> porthose: did you manage to establish a relationship to the debian coherence maintainers?
[16:22] <porthose> dholbach: yes that is correct
[16:23] <porthose> dholbach: yes I have, Arnaud has upload the new coherence-0.6.4 for me and should be auto synced this next go round
[16:23] <dholbach> that sounds good
[16:24] <dholbach> how is the bug situation of the 3 packages in debian/ubuntu?
[16:24] <geser> dholbach: porthose is in Uploaders for coherence
[16:24] <dholbach> geser: ah right, just spotted it in the application - thanks
[16:25] <porthose> dholbach: I would consider it in pretty good shape, there are some that will be closed with some new releases once they are sponsored into debian
[16:25] <dholbach> great... was it tough to stay on top of things happening in debian/upstream/ubuntu?
[16:26] <porthose> dholbach: at times it is, but that is why I only concentrate on a very few packages, I try not to over commit myself
[16:27] <dholbach> that makes sense
[16:27] <dholbach> persia, geser, jpds: quesitons?
[16:28] <jpds> None from me.
[16:29] <geser> porthose: you mentioned that is's hard to get someone to review a package on REVU. Any ideas how one could improve that?
[16:29] <persia> I'm set.  I'll also say that I've been involved in porthose's uploads of ampache, and was happy with the final results.
[16:32] <porthose> geser: I have been tossing that around in my head for a long time, and really haven't come up with anything yet, but I have noticed that nhandler and RainCT have been really pushing REVU days and alot more packages are being uploaded, for now I guess just help out where I can
[16:33] <dholbach> porthose: thanks for helping out there... geser: all set?
[16:33] <geser> yes
[16:33] <dholbach> super
[16:33] <dholbach> [VOTE] Shall the MC recommend Charlie Smotherman for upload privileges for ampache, ampache-themes and coherence?
[16:33] <MootBot> Please vote on:  Shall the MC recommend Charlie Smotherman for upload privileges for ampache, ampache-themes and coherence?.
[16:33] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[16:33] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[16:33] <jpds> +1
[16:33] <dholbach> +1
[16:33] <MootBot> +1 received from jpds. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[16:33] <MootBot> +1 received from dholbach. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[16:34] <persia> +1
[16:34] <MootBot> +1 received from persia. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[16:34] <geser> +1
[16:34] <MootBot> +1 received from geser. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
[16:34] <dholbach> [endvote]
[16:34] <MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
[16:34] <dholbach> well done, porthose
[16:34] <porthose> dholbach: ty
[16:34] <dholbach> porthose: we'll let the TB know about it and they'll be in touch with you RSN
[16:35] <dholbach> [TOPIC] Stefan Lesicnik's application
[16:35] <MootBot> New Topic:  Stefan Lesicnik's application
[16:35] <porthose> dholbach: ok and thanks again to everyone
[16:35] <dholbach> stefanlsd: so what's your involvement exactly with LSD?
[16:35] <dholbach> stefanlsd: anything we need to worry about?
[16:35] <stefanlsd> dholbach: aah. no.  Linux System Dynamics is the name of my company. LSD is just catchy
[16:35] <stefanlsd> dholbach: to remember that is :)
[16:35] <dholbach> I was just kidding :)
[16:36] <dholbach> how's your German lessons coming on?
[16:36] <geser> stefanlsd: you know that there is no requirement to know german for becoming a MOTU? :)
[16:36] <persia> geser, There isn't?
[16:36] <stefanlsd> haha. es geht :)   grammer keeps getting me... but i can speak it ok. (maybe not high german, but austrian dialect)
[16:37] <dholbach> stefanlsd: Wirst Du Dich jetzt erstmal auf Security-Arbeit konzentrieren?
[16:37] <ScottK> dholbach: #ubuntu-de
[16:37] <ScottK> ;-)
[16:37] <dholbach> ScottK: I hope the international vocabulary like "Security" was understandable enough :)
[16:37] <stefanlsd> dholbach: heh. I started doing a fair amount of stuff with the security team after a opendev week session with jd and kees asking for some help
[16:38] <ScottK> dholbach: Certainly.
[16:38] <dholbach> stefanlsd: what do you like best about it?
[16:38]  * ScottK recalls seeing stefanlsd active on -security stuff.
[16:38] <jpds> ScottK: Any clamav stuff?
[16:38] <ScottK> He helped me solve some apparmor profile stuff (for clamav)
[16:39] <stefanlsd> dholbach: i enjoy aspects of security (generally), i think ubuntu universe needs alot of work when it comes to security. I was very interested listening to UDS regarding a MoM way of merging / syncing debian security to us...
[16:39] <stefanlsd> dholbach: I would like to put some effort into that process if I can
[16:39] <dholbach> stefanlsd: anything that has your attention already?
[16:41] <stefanlsd> dholbach: Using MoM to check debian security.  That should shorten our time to get things into universe security.  Biggest concern for me is regression and 'SRU' process with this
[16:41] <dholbach> that makes sense
[16:41] <stefanlsd> Security is very challenging as its essentially an SRU. So lots of careful testing needs to be done...
[16:41] <dholbach> jpds, geser, persia: questions?
[16:42] <jpds> stefanlsd: Have you worked with the Debian security team as well?
[16:42] <stefanlsd> jpds: I havent worked with their team as such (online) - but i have included a number of their patches into our security, and also pushed patches to them.
[16:43] <persia> stefanlsd, What strategis do you think we should use to encourage more contrinbuting developers?
[16:43] <jpds> stefanlsd: Great.
[16:43] <stefanlsd> jpds: wireshark patches def. Not sure why i dont see it in my forwarded to debian list...  (will need to check)
[16:45] <stefanlsd> persia: Its tough. I am running a package jam here soon (tentative 27th June) - where I hope with actual face to face meetings, we'll be able to get some people. My biggest thing is telling people that you dont need to be a developer! (maybe the term is misleading) - Like dholbach says - its more detective work...
[16:45]  * dholbach gives stefanlsd a big hug :)
[16:45] <stefanlsd> persia: I was chatting to mok0 regarding REVU and how to improve that also...
[16:46] <stefanlsd> persia: I think that MOTU's are afraid to advocate?  (not sure here, discussion needed), but its kinda like, if i advocate and i'm wrong, what will others think?
[16:46] <stefanlsd> We need to all get involved and all help each other out, and learn from it
[16:46] <jpds> It's important to recognize that we all make mistakes and learn from them.
[16:47] <stefanlsd> Maybe some form of a REVU Mentor?
[16:47] <vorian> that's a good idea
[16:47] <stefanlsd> I know I still have stuff to learn on packaging... mok's session was excellent on REVU
[16:48] <dholbach> jpds, geser, persia: any more questions from you?
[16:49] <jpds> I'm cool.
[16:49] <geser> no
[16:50] <dholbach> persia: still around? :)
[16:52] <persia> stefanlsd, Could you outline the licensing requirements for a package to be included in universe vs. multiverse?
[16:54] <stefanlsd> persia: not my strongest point   (hence the review!) - but my understanding is that all the source must be fully redistributable
[16:54] <persia> Well, that's true for both multiverse and universe.  Are you able to describe the difference?
[16:56] <stefanlsd> persia: multiverse would contain software that is not free but is able to be distributed
[16:57] <dholbach> persia: all set?
[16:57] <persia> Sure.
[16:57] <dholbach> [VOTE] Shall Stefan Lesicnik become a MOTU?
[16:57] <MootBot> Please vote on:  Shall Stefan Lesicnik become a MOTU?.
[16:57] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[16:57] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[16:57] <jpds> +1
[16:57] <dholbach> +1
[16:57] <MootBot> +1 received from jpds. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[16:57] <MootBot> +1 received from dholbach. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[16:57] <geser> +1
[16:57] <MootBot> +1 received from geser. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[16:58] <persia> +0.  I'm concerned about consideration of licensing, especially with a specific desire to be involved in sponsoring and REVU.
[16:58] <dholbach> [endvote]
[16:58] <MootBot> Final result is 3 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 3
[16:59] <dholbach> persia: what more do you expect from Stefan?
[17:00]  * persia looks at stuff harder
[17:02] <stefanlsd> persia: I think its something I can get better at. I also know that there are various avenues of finding out if I am not sure
[17:02] <persia> Yeah.  I guess it's that I'd like to see a bit more of that before I say +1.
[17:03] <persia> I'm *very* happy with a large number of components of the application otherwise, which is part of why I pause when asked what more I want.
[17:03] <stefanlsd> persia: ok. np.
[17:03] <dholbach> persia: do you think you can talk to stefanlsd outside this meeting to clarify about what you'd like to see?
[17:04] <dholbach> just so Stefan knows when to come back
[17:04] <persia> I'd be *very* happy to do that.
[17:04] <dholbach> thanks
[17:04] <dholbach> stefanlsd: thanks a lot for your great work and keep it up!
[17:04] <stefanlsd> persia: thanks. would appreciate that too.
[17:04] <persia> stefanlsd, I'll try to work with you in time that you can make the next meeting, or, worst case, the one following.
[17:05] <stefanlsd> np. thanks for everyone's time :)
[17:05] <dholbach> [TOPIC] Andrew Starr-Bochicchio's application
[17:05] <MootBot> New Topic:  Andrew Starr-Bochicchio's application
[17:05] <dholbach> asomething: still around? :)
[17:05] <asomething> yep!
[17:05] <dholbach> perfect!
[17:05] <geser> I've to leave in about 15 min
[17:06] <dholbach> geser: questions? :)
[17:06] <dholbach> asomething: do you have an idea how to automatically add "(LP: #1234567)" to debian/changelog? :-)
[17:07]  * nixternal is here
[17:07] <asomething> ya, that's some thing that I've forgotten sometimes, bBut most of them had to do with building the package before filing a sponsorship bug. Something that I hopefully won't be doing for universe any more. =)
[17:07] <geser> asomething: how will you make sure that bugs gets closed for uploads where you forget the (lp: #xxx)?
[17:08] <jpds> nixternal: Better late than never!
[17:08] <asomething> Geser: I follow up on my work so I can always close it manually
[17:09] <geser> oh good, so nixternal can replace me if we aren't done in 15 min :)
[17:10] <dholbach> persia, jpds: any questions?
[17:10] <dholbach> asomething: what was your experience when you worked with debian?
[17:11] <jpds> asomething: I usually add LP: ## to changelogs as I fix the stuff so it's done, don't you like automatically closing stuff? :)
[17:11] <persia> asomething, Could you outline some of the special considerations involved when packaging a theme?
[17:11] <dholbach> asomething: what was it like when you worked on stuff with the desktop team?
[17:12] <asomething> dholbach: generally my experience with debian has been good, I maintain a few packages my selfy and I've got good relations with some maintainers of stuff im interested in
[17:12] <nixternal> asomething: what are your plans for future packages? sticking specifically with GNOME based desktop packages, or are you looking to expand out into other areas?
[17:13] <nixternal> honestly, we have enough GNOME packages, so what makes you stand out?
[17:13] <nixternal> s/packages/packagers
[17:13] <asomething> persia: as i'm finding out with gnome-colors, checking copyright is important, artists dont check things as much as software devs
[17:13]  * nixternal notes that you can never have enough really
[17:13] <dholbach> nixternal: I'll tell seb128 about that - you'll never have a quiet day in your life again
[17:13] <nixternal> remember, I am a volunteer!
[17:13] <nixternal> ;P
[17:14] <asomething> nixternal: well, I'm mostly concerned with GTK+ stuff, but generally there is a lot of stuff out there with fixes already availiable I want to find those thing and fix them
[17:15] <asomething> like I say in my app, I'm interested in continuing to pick off the low hanging fruit but also helping to get more people involved with it as well, training ect
[17:16] <nixternal> well I think as a MOTU, you should strive for more than low-hanging fruit, and leave those for people who are trying to become MOTU and such, what do you think?
[17:16] <dholbach> I have no more questions
[17:16]  * persia is looking up details for a quest
[17:16] <persia> ion
[17:16] <nixternal> hehe
[17:16] <nixternal> dholbach: you shoul dknow that by now, when persia is quiet for so long, he is digging
[17:17] <asomething> nixternal: part of leaving that stuff for contributors is having more sponsors
[17:17]  * geser leaves
[17:17] <persia> asomething, You recently uploaded a merge of boost1.37 : Could you share your view of the boost1.37 -> boost1.38 transition, and what ought be done for karmic?
[17:17] <nixternal> geser: want to give us your vote before you go?
[17:18] <persia> geser, Have a  good evening
[17:18] <dholbach> geser: have a good evening
[17:19]  * nixternal notes he needs to the Signals2 library from boost
[17:19] <asomething> persia: i think it's doable, but not really my area of expertise. I was simply the last uploader on that for jaunty to pull in a debian fix affecting libtorrent-rasterbar
[17:20] <asomething> part of working with the debian deluge maintainer
[17:20] <persia> Did you review alternate versions, or consider migrating to the new version?
[17:22] <asomething> well, my goal was getting deluge syncable and the debian maintainer is building libtorrent-rasterbar against 1.37 only
[17:23] <dholbach> persia, nixternal, jpds: any more questions?
[17:23] <jpds> None from me.
[17:23]  * persia is done.
[17:23] <nixternal> done
[17:23] <dholbach> [VOTE] Shall Andrew Starr-Bochicchio become MOTU?
[17:23] <MootBot> Please vote on:  Shall Andrew Starr-Bochicchio become MOTU?.
[17:23] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[17:23] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[17:23] <jpds> +1
[17:23] <dholbach> +1
[17:23] <MootBot> +1 received from jpds. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[17:23] <MootBot> +1 received from dholbach. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[17:24] <nixternal> +1
[17:24] <MootBot> +1 received from nixternal. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[17:24] <persia> +1
[17:24] <MootBot> +1 received from persia. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
[17:24] <dholbach> [endvote]
[17:24] <MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
[17:24] <dholbach> congratulations asomething!
[17:24] <dholbach> asomething: ... long overdue! :-)
[17:25] <asomething> Thanks!
[17:25] <nixternal> congrats and welcome asomething!
[17:25] <nellery> congrats asomething! :)
[17:25] <jpds> Congrats asomething!
[17:25] <stefanlsd> congrats!
[17:25] <nixternal> now get boost1.39 uploaded and backported! :p
[17:25] <porthose> congrats
[17:25] <dholbach> [TOPIC] AOB?
[17:25] <MootBot> New Topic:  AOB?
[17:25] <persia> 1.39!
[17:25] <nixternal> what is that?
[17:25] <dholbach> Any other business
[17:25] <nixternal> oh
[17:25] <nixternal> hah
[17:25]  * persia is good.
[17:25] <dholbach> who's going to do the honours?
[17:25] <nixternal> none here
[17:26] <nixternal> I am going to the hospital, so maybe if and when I come back I could do them
[17:26] <dholbach> nixternal: ok, if you don't make it back, I'll do it tomorrow early!
[17:26] <dholbach> deal?
[17:26] <nixternal> umm, I better make it back dude, only way that I wouldn't is if I kicked the bucket
[17:27] <dholbach> nixternal: I'm sure you will :)
[17:27] <nixternal> but that is fine...i can do it here in a bit :)
[17:27] <dholbach> thanks muchly
[17:27] <nixternal> it's just an ankle ;p
[17:27]  * jpds disappears for today - later folks.
[17:27] <dholbach> ok...
[17:27] <dholbach> #endmeeting
[17:27] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:27.
[17:27] <dholbach> thanks a lot everybody!
[17:27] <nixternal> dholbach: have a drink for me!
[17:27]  * dholbach hugs porthose, hyperair, stefanlsd, asomething
[17:27] <dholbach> sure will :)
[17:27] <dholbach> take care
[17:28]  * hyperair hugs dholbach
[17:28] <dholbach> :-)
[17:28]  * porthose hugs dholbach back:)
[17:28] <dholbach> see you around
[23:06] <ldlandis> hi.. are meetings pending? (I'm a newbie).


[09:11] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4226 No packages are being considered! If you are preparing sources manually, please upload them to the PPA now
[09:33] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- LocutusOfBorg, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4213 Failed to build
[11:27] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4226 Proposed pocket
[12:18] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4218 Needs rebuild due to burned version number
[12:19] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4219 Needs rebuild due to burned version number
[12:20] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4220 Needs rebuild due to higher version at destination (focal/postgresql-common). Successfully built (focal/postgresql-12)
[12:40] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4220 Needs rebuild due to burned version number (focal/postgresql-12). Needs rebuild due to higher version at destination (focal/postgresql-common)
[13:13] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- LocutusOfBorg, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4213 Dependency wait
[13:59] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer ahasenack, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4227 No packages are being considered! If you are preparing sources manually, please upload them to the PPA now
[14:48] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer ahasenack, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4227 Pending binary packages
[14:53] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Trevinho, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4055 Abandoning ticket
[15:27] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer ahasenack, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4227 Diff missing
[15:28] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer ahasenack, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4227 Generating diffs
[15:28] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer ahasenack, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4227 Successfully built
[17:05] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- rbalint, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4044 Ready to build (groovy/hello). Successfully built (groovy/iptables, groovy/sshguard)
[17:49] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- rbalint, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4148 Failed to build (groovy/golang-github-grpc-ecosystem-grpc-gateway). Needs rebuild due to higher version at destination (groovy/gce-compute-image-packages, groovy/google-compute-engine-oslogin, groovy/google-guest-agent, groovy/google-osconfig-agent). Successfully built (groovy/golang-github-gcp-guest-logging-go, groovy/golang-google-genproto, groovy/golang-google-grpc, groovy/golang-goprotobuf)
[22:26] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4226 Release pocket


[03:22] <InHisName> Hi there EvilResistance, I see sadin left already.    I have seen references to a real bargin 19" rack from IKEA.  I think it was like $20.   I don't have link handy or I'd have pasted it here...
[05:37] <InHisName> Good Morning
[10:02] <rmg51> Morning
[10:05] <SamuraiAlba> Good bacon to all!
[10:10] <beta0x64> hello
[10:12] <beta0x64> I might as well tell you guys: I needed a webcam security system, so I used motion. I wanted it to automatically turn on when locking the screen, and I wanted it to send me emails with frame by frame photos
[10:13] <beta0x64> so, that's what I made using a motion config file, a program that loops from startup and detects the screensaver process, and a send email script. I basically copy and pasted most of it and edited a few lines (The Unix Way?)
[10:14] <beta0x64> I would really like to make an installation script for this, but I'm really really really lazy. If anyone's interested, I can show them the stuff.
[10:24] <SamuraiAlba> Not sure how to do that
[10:25] <beta0x64> how to do what?
[10:25] <SamuraiAlba> install that
[10:25] <SamuraiAlba> and get the script running
[10:26] <beta0x64> it's pretty easy
[10:27] <beta0x64> basically just copy and paste the scripts
[10:27] <beta0x64> install motion
[10:27] <beta0x64> line up a couple paths
[10:27] <SamuraiAlba> Hmmm.  Must look into it
[10:27] <beta0x64> add the trigger script to startup applications
[10:27] <SamuraiAlba> anyway, off to uni
[10:27] <beta0x64> k
[11:19] <JonathanD> Morning.
[11:20] <rmg51> hi JonathanD
[11:20] <rmg51> time for work
[14:07]  * adom waves to everyone.
[14:08] <adom> got 3 student and 1 professor laptop in front of me. going to be a long, slow day.
[14:09] <adom> not to mention the professors is his wifes laptop and its a compaq presario from 1875.
[14:09] <adom> trying to find video drives for it...
[14:09] <adom> drivers*
[14:21] <ChinnoDog> 1875?
[14:21] <ChinnoDog> It must be made of wood and has a crank to start it
[14:50] <adom> yeah. steam-powered.
[14:50] <adom> had to download the drivers with a vaccum tube.
[14:50] <adom> the power source is a tesla coil
[17:21] <adom> need nerd answers: if you had to pick one website as a staple of end-user (easy to read/understand for non-nerds) information about cyber/internet security information, what would it be?
[17:23] <pleia2> don't bother
[17:59] <ChinnoDog> You want someone nontechnical to understand internet security?
[18:00] <ChinnoDog> You could tell them what to do to stay safe but good luck making them understand why they have to do it.
[19:13] <jedijf> adom: lifehacker - should sprinkle in end user type security stuff with other stuff to keep them interested
[19:15] <jedijf> you may have to read it to them
[20:07] <ChinnoDog> It'll be the most boring story time ever
[20:09] <jedijf> hey, they had a great cake in a minute in a microwave story like a week ago
[20:12] <ChinnoDog> Who did? Sounds like that story had a happy ending.
[20:18] <jedijf> lifehacker
[20:18] <jedijf> make in a cup
[20:18] <jedijf> cup o' cake
[20:25] <jedijf> http://lifehacker.com/5892327/keep-single-serving-microwave-cake-mix-on-hand-for-a-quick-fix
[20:26] <adom> well im off to buy some guiness. top o the weekend to ya laddies!
[20:28] <pleia2> tsk, no greeting for me, I won't share my green beer
[20:28] <pleia2> (cup o' cake)++
[20:34] <jedijf> and i thought he was calling us /ladies/
[20:35] <jedijf> laddie neutral beats lassie ruf ruf
[20:35] <jedijf> it's sooo complicated
[20:35] <pleia2> hehe
[20:35] <jedijf> pleia2: are the countdown thingys coming soon?
[20:35] <jedijf> 41
[20:36] <pleia2> yes, soon
[20:37] <jedijf> recommend 42 as the start in the future, magic number
[20:37] <ssweeny> when will then be now?
[20:37] <jedijf> tomorrow
[20:38] <jedijf> or yesterday in some parts


[15:53] <cmaloney> Good morning
[15:54] <waldo323> good morning, cmaloney
[15:54] <cmaloney> How's the day?
[15:55] <waldo323> cold but pretty good
[15:55] <cmaloney> Awesome
[15:55] <cmaloney> Reminder: https://www.meetup.com/Coffee-House-Coders-Royal-Oak/events/246109027/


[08:21] <tsdgeos> Mirv: did the rebuild help?
[08:26] <Mirv> tsdgeos: yes it did, which is awesome!
[08:27] <tsdgeos> Mirv: great :) I'd recommend we rebuild anything that depends on qtdeclarative-dev before landing that, not just the uitk, since who knows who may be using the same private header
[08:27] <Mirv> still one rerun needed at least for flakiness
[08:29] <Mirv> tsdgeos: that'd be mostly u8, webbrowser
[08:29] <tsdgeos> i mean qtdeclarative-private-dev not qdeclarative-dev
[08:29] <tsdgeos> sorry
[08:37] <Mirv> tsdgeos: I know what you meant. I'll put the almost full set in, including pyqt5
[08:38] <Mirv> tsdgeos: or should I omit u8 if you know it well enough to know that it's not needed since also autopkgtests pass?
[08:40] <tsdgeos> just put it there, i guess won't hurt
[08:40] <Mirv> ok
[08:45] <Mirv> tsdgeos: doh, it seems qtmir is currently FTBFS due to miral landing
[08:46] <Mirv> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/311715284/buildlog_ubuntu-xenial-amd64.qtmir_0.5.1+16.04.20170307-0ubuntu2~~xenialoverlay1~1_BUILDING.txt.gz
[08:46] <Mirv> fatal error: miral/set_command_line_hander.h: No such file or directory
[08:47] <tsdgeos> :'(
[08:47] <tsdgeos> Saviq: know anything about ↑ ?
[08:47] <Mirv> filed bug #1674617 for it
[08:48] <Saviq> Mirv, tsdgeos, I've merged the fix in trunk already
[08:49] <Saviq> Mirv, feel free to upload a release with http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mir-team/qtmir/trunk/revision/618
[08:50] <Saviq> \or a NOOP release in your silo
[08:54] <Mirv> ok then, I'll grab the fix
[08:54] <Mirv> thanks
[10:50] <Saviq> Mirv, so what's the deal with qtmir, we've a silo (2555) that's almost QA ready, shall we land it?
[11:09] <Mirv> Saviq: we can let bileto + QA decide which they take first
[11:11] <Mirv> since the tests seemed fine I'll put 2519 towards QA now
[11:23] <Saviq> ack


[00:04] <holstein> Subroutine: use which ever you like
[00:04] <holstein> Subroutine: libreoffice is a fork of openoffice
[00:05] <holstein> Subroutine: it is likely that some folks who dont know that, or dont realize libre is the moder fork of the same project are suggesting openoffice
[00:05] <ianorlin> I haven't noticed much difference and have used both
[00:05] <Subroutine> im staying with libre coz it did the job, i just wondered if there are any good reasons for one or other
[00:06] <Subroutine> *one over other
[00:06] <holstein> Subroutine: there is a good reason for libre, since it is the modern fork of the other project.. assuming you want the latest
[00:06] <ianorlin> both allow me to do what I want and both have a pdf button
[00:11] <Subroutine> cheers guys :)
[00:25] <Hutch> I think openoffice is a new product 'apache open office'. I am interested as my workplace 'NHS' is the largest employer inhe OOo the UK and tried to replace ms office with OOo
[00:27] <Hutch> I may be wrong but if apache open office is different from Open Office Org I would be interested as the OOo for windows was not great
[00:28] <hardboot> Is lubuntu 14.04 qt or gtk2 or gtk3 based, if i remember pcman didn't like gtk3 any more than 2 so he went qt and merged with razrqt
[00:28] <Hutch> It had not been maintained since 2010
[00:28] <Unit193> Apache OpenOffice is what it is now, Oracle gave OpenOffice.org to Apache.
[00:29] <hardboot> libre office is in pretty much every repo
[00:29] <Unit193> It's being developed, so it isn't quite the same.
[00:29] <Unit193> Yep.
[00:29] <Subroutine> Hutch: i did think its the same think. i used aoo in windows some time ago and it worked ok for me.
[00:29] <hardboot> anyone using 14.04?
[00:29] <Unit193> hardboot: GTK2/3
[00:30] <Hutch> I would like to try it then if Apache maintain it
[00:30] <hardboot> LXDE-Qt Lubuntu is probally a 15.04 thing
[00:30] <hardboot> not this year i'm guessing
[00:31] <Hutch> Subroutine: in our work experience there were some random problems with fonts and margins which put our management off OOo
[00:31] <hardboot> the codebase of ooo is a mess
[00:32] <Hutch> hardboot siduction seems to be leading the LXDE/Razor QT front but I wasn't overly impressed although I like the prospect
[00:33] <hardboot> Ya it's so early, not usabel yet
[00:33] <hardboot> The potential is great though
[00:33] <Unit193> LXQT is way too early to use yet.
[00:33] <hardboot> I wonder when it'll be good to go, 15.04/15.10 I guess
[00:33] <Hutch> Just some issues I have with the debian style installation and some software choices for me
[00:34] <hardboot> Not this year for lubuntu unless a massive amount of workwent into it for 14.10
[00:34] <hardboot> who's the gtx lxde maintainer now
[00:34] <Hutch> I would like to see what lubuntu could do with RQT
[00:36] <hardboot> Isn't rqt kinda too minimal
[00:36] <hardboot> you'd have to bring in a lot
[00:36] <holstein> razorQT works great
[00:36] <Hutch> I dropped Mint when they dropped LXDE for cinnamon/MATE. They're not bad now but I needed simpler low res hogging DE then
[00:36] <hardboot> OH razor, i though you meant the embedded QT
[00:36] <hardboot> ya razor is pretty neat
[00:37] <Hutch> Razor QT has great potential if LXDE devs can use it well
[00:38] <hardboot> let's use enlightenment base for lxde HUE
[00:38] <Hutch> nice idea
[00:38] <hardboot> isnt E a 1-man show
[00:39] <hardboot> although lxde and razor are to pretty much
[00:39] <hardboot> lots of little desktops/wms/des, too bad the devs couldn't work together
[00:39] <hardboot> lxde-razor is great because both devs seem competent so with the manpower merged, mmm
[00:44] <Hutch> enlightenment offers great choice  but it's a mess for noobs to negotiate and the best example Bodhiuses a non logical package management system imo
[00:45] <holstein> you can use whatever you like.. synaptic, etc..
[00:45] <Hutch> Bottom line these days is most people don't want to have to install an os on their machines
[00:46] <hardboot> heh, people reinstall windows all the time
[00:46] <Hutch> They don't do it on mobiles or tablets so it has to be simple
[00:47] <Subroutine> Hutch: most people have no clue about technology
[00:47] <hardboot> gnome is simple gone autism, why can't i sjut drag the bar and bits around, why must i script everything in extensions
[00:47] <hardboot> according to the education department computer literacy has gone DOWN
[00:47] <Hutch> same for cinnamon
[00:48] <Hutch> I read that Subroutine. Where are you from?
[00:48] <hardboot> cinnamon is gnome gone casua
[00:48] <holstein> people buy computers.. not many install operating systems
[00:48] <Hutch> yup
[00:48] <Subroutine> Hutch: slovakia
[00:49] <hardboot> A lot of people know have reinstalled windows at some point :P
[00:49] <holstein> hardboot: not really
[00:49] <Hutch> and they're cheap enough to be disposable/replaceable
[00:49] <holstein> hardboot: they purchased the machine with windows..
[00:49] <holstein> we should take this to the appropriate channel.. #lubuntu-offtopic
[00:50] <Hutch> soz I thought it was.my bad
[01:34] <harmem> has anybody had any luck with getting 3d acceleration working on a powerbook5,6? 2D seems to be working flawlessly (absolutely no slowdown in the UI etc) but I keep getting this with glxgears http://pastie.org/pastes/8606534/text
[01:34] <hardboot> which gpu?
[01:34] <hardboot> ahh r300
[01:38] <hardboot> I have that gpu and it works on x86, must be some ppc bug
[01:38] <hardboot> It used to work on PPC fine
[01:39] <hardboot> it sounds like a lib is missing
[01:42] <harmem> I tried rerolling my own mesa in /opt/xorg and updating LIBGL_DRIVERS_PATH appropriately but it just complained about swrast suddenly having the same undefined symbol in addition to r300
[01:42] <harmem> hmm ok
[01:43] <hardboot> >libGL: Can't open configuration file
[01:44] <hardboot> afiak a config should be auto generated
[01:46] <harmem> using driconf to make one doesn't make a difference, and afaik drirc is the important one it expects
[01:47] <harmem>  /drirc*
[01:47] <harmem> ugh, /etc/drirc*
[02:14] <koell> global menu for lubuntu/lxde would be cool!
[02:14] <koell> any new features in 14.04?
[02:26] <bkm_> i got xrander to work with my two-headed video card. (i specified a virtual desktop in xorg.conf) i now have one screen with the lubuntu window manager and the other with openbook. also, synergy only knows about one of these two monitors. is there a more lubuntu-specific way to get multi-head cards to show a continuous deskspace? I would settle for just having the same window manager on each monitor
[03:21] <hardboot> It's funny, the only problem with lubuntu 14.04 is there's 2 wifi icons, and i can't figure out why
[03:21] <hardboot> everything else works fine
[03:35] <Unit193> Kind of sounds like Debian 728527.
[03:36] <Unit193> But, you should have the proper version of openbox.
[03:38] <hardboot> Fixed in versions openbox/3.5.2-5, openbox/3.5.2-6
[03:39] <hardboot> well, i'm running 3.5.2-6, it ain't fixed
[03:39] <hardboot> must be some other cause, or a regression, or a conflicty thing
[03:39] <ianorlin> is this in trusty?
[03:39] <hardboot> ya
[03:39] <ianorlin> with network monitors
[03:40] <hardboot> well there's 2 open, 1 installed, so somewhere it's being launched a second time
[03:41] <ianorlin> bug 1256434
[03:42] <hardboot> looks like it's been figured out https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lxpanel/+bug/1256434/comments/6
[03:42] <hardboot> i'll jsut fix it manually
[03:42] <hardboot> although it does bring up a good question - which sould be launching it?
[03:43] <hardboot> OH LORDY
[03:43] <hardboot> STEAM BUG
[03:43] <hardboot> 100 tray icons
[03:43] <hardboot> I kid you not
[03:44] <hardboot> ok i lied there's 40 icons, hmm
[03:44] <hardboot> hmm they're all tied together
[03:44] <hardboot> maybe sdl bug
[03:46] <hardboot> ah-ha, it's some weird glx bug in nouveau, it doesn't happen on nvidia' propritary drivers, odd quirk
[04:06] <nitus> Hi all. long time windows user, still a linux newb but using it ever more frequently thanks to lubuntu and almost at the point in entry level where it's all going to click
[04:06] <nitus> but not today
[04:06] <nitus> accidentally picked nexus 7 from the login menu
[04:07] <nitus> black screen with a mouse cursor. recovery mode didn't help much. on livecd atm
[04:08] <nitus> wait , can't I just chroot and bring up the same selection menu? and de-select nexus 7
[04:08] <Unit193> Log out?
[04:08] <nitus> heh
[04:08] <nitus> how?
[04:09] <nitus> I always just hit the colorful button
[04:09] <nitus> tried to bring up  terminal but it wasn't happening
[04:11] <Unit193> Alright, well user-session is in /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf
[04:11] <Unit193> Dose the user autologin or something then?
[04:12] <nitus> chroot newb too of course, I do that same as I do networking? "sudo cp /etc/resolv.conf /var/chroot/etc/resolv.conf" or whatnot
[04:13] <nitus> yeah, although I have tried repeatedly to bring back a login since it gains nothing to not have one
[04:13] <Unit193> vim, nano, sed...  Why chroot?
[04:14] <nitus> because I just learned about it and used it the last time things went haywire, and I don't know what those other things are
[04:18] <nitus> while I'm at it, I should also ask whether there's some package or  other that can keep me from booting to a black screen  due to some seemingly insignificant installation that synaptic nor apt-get indicates will wreak havok
[04:18] <nitus> as I use lubuntu more routinely and start settling in and tuning my environment it seems to happen all too often
[04:19] <nitus> needs a "don't hurt me" difficulty setting
[04:19] <Unit193> What?
[04:22] <nitus> oh, broken packages one time. lowlatency kernel another time . . . after removal kept booting to  nonexistant lowlatency kernel despite no trace remaining from inside lubuntu, finally tried reinstalling all the lowlatency packages and then removing them, and it finally got rid of it
[04:23] <nitus> I know, it must all sound like the most elementary and obvious sort of thing, but there's a bit of a learning curve coming from a lifetime of microsoft
[04:25] <nitus> and lubuntu is the most newb-friendly distro I have tried to date
[04:25] <nitus> back in a bit, googling vim, nano, and sed
[04:26] <nitus> oh. you mean to say it's just a text file
[04:26] <nitus> set newb mode = true
[04:30] <nitus> autologic-user=false?
[04:32] <nitus> it says user-session=Lubuntu
[04:32] <nitus> is there another related one somewhere going to nexus 7?
[04:41] <nitus> actually, I never managed to log in at all. I was in the switch-user dialogue and thought, "hey, why not try nexus 7, ought to be interesting!"
 I wonder if simply pulling the plug would do it. when I get back in I am backing this thing up so I can solve these little problems the alexandrian way
[04:48] <holstein> nitus: you shouldnt have the lowlatency kernel..
[04:49] <holstein> nitus: you might want to reinstall, and try and keep it simple.. just run lubuntu stock for a bit.. try and get used to the system a bit more slowly
[04:50] <nitus> "lowlatency, oooh! sounds good!" like it would be faster or something
[04:50] <holstein> nitus: no
[04:50] <nitus> got rid of it almost immediately, it just took awhile for it to realize that it had been removed
[04:50] <holstein> nitus: its for lowlatency audio.. thats it.. for 2 cases in audio production. software synths, and realtime effect processing
[04:50] <nitus> booting via recovery mode
[04:50] <nitus> yeah I lerned that when I finally actually read the documentation
[04:50] <holstein> nitus: you dont need it.. and shouldnt install *anything* just because it "sounds good"
[04:51] <holstein> you really shouldnt need to install much of anything at first.. usually, i grab the browser i prefer, and the audio player, and maybe libreoffice
[04:51] <nitus> plus the numerous cautionary web articles describing newbs doing exactly the same thing for the same reasons
[04:52] <holstein> you dont have to be cautious about it.. play around if you like. but, you will likely break things
[04:52] <holstein> try running an installation in virtualbox.. you can save snapshots.. or, wreck a live environment
[04:53] <holstein> !arm
[04:53] <holstein> AFAIK, the nexus7 is arm
[04:54] <nitus> I'm on the proper kernel now, anyway. I started out just using linux as a backup/recovery platform for my windows install, then I discovered that lubuntu could give old hardware a new life (people are always bringing me old laptops and whatnot to install windows on. sometimes windows just isn't happening. lubuntu is great
[04:54] <holstein> enjoy!..
[04:55] <nitus> runs quite comfortably on higher end hardware as well, of course. graduated from livecd to persistent usb last year, then decided I needed a permanent install
[04:55] <nitus> been using it full time recently on account of hard bricking my samsung
[04:55] <Unit193> Sounded like you just missed update-grub somehow.
[04:56] <nitus> yeah something like that, but I wonde why the recovery menu option didn't do it
[04:57] <nitus> many more options at my fingertips here than in windows for the phone situation
[04:57] <nitus> tempted to smash apart some old electronics and cobble together a simple jtag connector
[05:01] <nitus> people already bringing me phones for quite awhile now, to root or unlock, but it doesn't look like it would take a huge investment to upgrade myself to unbrick-guy. aside from it being a nuisance when everybody is always on you to fix some hardware or software
[05:01] <nitus> always amazes me how few people seem to know what google actually does
[05:01] <nitus> on that note: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm/+bug/1252435
[05:04] <nitus> except I'm on 13.10
[05:04] <nitus> mind you I get nags about some packge issue or another when running apt-get update
[05:04] <nitus> at the end it helpfully tells me to "run apt-get update to resolve the issue"
[05:05] <Unit193> Sources out of date, yep.
[05:07] <nitus> something about duplicates, ever since adding getdeb and playdeb
[05:11] <nitus> of two or three items in main. just shrugged and figure it will resolve itself eventually. doesn't seem to interfere conspicuously with anything
[05:12] <nitus> unless my current problem is related
[05:12] <nitus> used to have it on always ask. I guess next up is "default'
[05:15] <nitus> first I'm going to see if the chroot method works, like it did with a few other times I buggered things. mayb I can just pop up the switch user dialogue and pick something that works
[05:17] <nitus> I'm actually surprised at how exciting it is now that it's starting to click, how I can customize everything and do all this stuff that mere months ago seemed impenetrably arcane
[05:19] <nitus> pretty soon I'll be compiling my own software and other nerdy stuff. I had no idea it was so easy
[05:20] <Unit193> To change the config file you really don't need to chroot...
[05:20] <nitus> but which one?
[05:21] <nitus> lightdm.conf is fine
[05:22] <Unit193> Ah.
[05:23] <Unit193> Then delete/change ~/.dmrc
[05:25] <nitus> looking
[05:25] <nitus> four or five year ago, I asked a friend to recommend a distro that would serve as a useful introtuction to linux. he gave me some old slackware iso that sent me scurrying back to windows
[05:25] <nitus> and it was windows ME
[05:27] <nitus> oh, duh, show hidden
[05:30] <nitus> that should do it . . .
[05:30] <nitus> thanks much
[05:31] <nitus> brb
[06:32] <sgo11> hi, after running lxpanelctl restart, I lost my desktop icons. I think they are managed by pcmanfm, right? how to get them back? thanks.
[08:11] <Unit193> sgo11: Yes, pcmanfm runs the desktop.  Did you check to see if it was still running?
[08:12] <sgo11> Unit193, I am not sure how to run that desktop by pcmanfm. It's not running. when I run pcmanfm, just the folder manager comes out. thanks.
[08:25] <Unit193> pcmanfm --desktop --profile lubuntu
[09:34] <sgo11> Unit193, just saw your message. thanks a lot.
[09:35] <Unit193> Sure
[10:34] <opticals> Does anyone else get two wireless icons on lxpanel?
[10:48] <Unit193> Might want to say 14.04
[10:48] <opticals> yeah sorry :P
[10:49] <opticals> Just reported it launchpad and it seems my eyes arent the blame :P
[11:08] <Unit193> Yep, known bug.
[16:10] <Foars> Having issues updating. sudo apt-get update: http://pastebin.com/5kATrgK7
[17:02] <holstein> Foars1: looks to me like you have mixed sources
[17:02] <holstein> Foars1: you are using ppa's from quantal and raring. i would expect issues
[17:02] <Foars> Yes, may that be because I'm still on Lubuntu 12.10?
[17:02] <holstein> i would purge all ppa's if you are having issues
[17:03] <Foars> How do I purge all them?
[17:03] <holstein> Foars: confirm what you are on.. you have mixed sources
[17:03] <holstein> !ppa
[17:03] <holstein> !ppa-purge
[17:06] <holstein> Foars: with many of those issues, i find its easier to just reinstall.. a fresh install typically takes 8 minutes.. depending on how messed up your sources are, this could take a while to "fix", and may not be repairable
[17:07] <Foars> Hmmm.
[17:11] <Foars> Alrigh then.
[17:11] <Foars> Thank you holstein.
[18:01] <leszek> hi
[21:53] <hardboot> Well I've been running 14.04 for a while and it seems ok, the only issue is about 2/3 of the nviida driver packages are broken
[21:59] <ianorlin> I can't tell exactly what it means by broken?
[22:03] <hardboot> compat, and the packages themselves being broken
[22:04] <hardboot> 30x works but older and newer are broken
[22:04] <koell> does someone know a good application to rip blu rays to my hard drive? i would like to backup them and play in home network
[22:05] <hardboot> vlc can play/rip them if you have a bluray key,
[22:05] <koell> Ive heard of makemkv. what is a blu ray key?
[22:06] <hardboot> makemkv works fine on lder bds
[22:06] <hardboot> i've used it before
[22:09] <koell> hardboot: and newer one doesnt work anymore?
[22:09] <koell> hardboot: how to get such br key?
[22:10] <hardboot> koell: lightdm doesn't even want to start
[22:10] <hardboot> whoops wrong convo
[22:10] <koell> xD
[22:10] <hardboot> It's funny how AMD's drivers have prgressed so much that I know have more problems with nVidia
[22:11] <hardboot> AMD is still slow on linux though :-/
[22:13] <koell> didnt really need such graphic power in linux, because gaming still sucks anyway
[22:13] <hardboot> There's quite a few native games, and a ton run in wine
[22:13] <hardboot> Probally the best native is Metro, it's a proper AAA game
[22:16] <hardboot> Some of those 13 SteamBoxes look nice
[22:17] <hardboot> Gaming computers for console prices
[22:17] <koell> they r available now?
[22:17] <hardboot> Not yet
[22:18] <koell> there's no better game than gta 5 online atm :D
[22:20] <hardboot> gta4 modded looks better though :P
[22:23] <koell> its not all about how it looks. graphics is overrated
[22:32] <hardboot> which is why i liked 3/vice/san more than 4/5
[23:18] <bkm_> i have xrandr working with a virtual display defined in an xorg.conf file. one monitor has a lubuntu window manager while the other has an openbook manager. can i make these the same somehow?


[00:01] <JanC> and when I try to report an OOPS there, that timeouts too now  :P
[00:02] <JanC> for reference, it's OOPS-3a24e5fafbbca7c7eda19766c2a02b97
[00:04] <JanC> the OOPS for failing to let me add a response with an OOPS is OOPS-bd0b106e4e53291b1b9a78fdac4c2244
[00:06] <JanC> cjwatson: as you asked for an OOPS...  ^^^
[00:06] <JanC> ah, now I could finally add it
[00:07] <JanC> (the OOPS, not the duplicate)
[01:25] <cjwatson> Well, it's just the usual inability for the bugtaskflat triggers to create a temporary table; the only unusual thing is that it seems to be persisting for longer than ten minutes at a time?
[01:28] <cjwatson> Hm, though not quite that, no temp tables involved here
[01:28] <cjwatson> No sysadmins on non-emergency duty at the moment so I can't find out if there are any long transactions in place
[01:57] <cjwatson> Could just be contention with the enormous BranchRevision autovacuum in progress I suppose?


[20:07] <fginther> Chocanto, shouldn't the tests be fixed theen?
[20:08] <Chocanto> fginther: I can fix the tests in the same branch but I would have preferated do it in a separated branch
[20:08] <Chocanto> fginther: If it's possible, if not I will do it in the same branch
[20:10] <fginther> Chocanto, it needs to be in the same branch. That way tests never get out of sync
[20:10] <Chocanto> fginther: Ok, so.. let's work ! :)
[20:22] <cwayne> mterry: ping
[20:22] <mterry> cwayne, hello
[20:23] <cwayne> mterry: so should i start with a fresh image to test? or can i just use the one i had installed yesterday?
[20:23] <mterry> cwayne, should be able to reuse it
[20:23] <cwayne> mterry: awesome. can you give me those branches again?
[20:24] <zzarr> hello again hashcode
[20:27] <zzarr> I wounder what has to be done for ubuntu-touch to work with the droid 4?
[20:27] <mterry> cwayne, sorry, was afk.  one sec
[20:27] <mterry> cwayne, lp:~mterry/session-manager-touch/lightdm-switch and lp:~mterry/lightdm/multi-seat-vt-0
[20:28] <stgraber> jdstrand: would something simple like http://paste.ubuntu.com/6151759/ cover your needs?
[20:28] <mterry> cwayne, just build both, install, and reboot.  no other config changes should be needed
[20:28] <cwayne> mterry: just branch build install and reboot?
[20:28] <mterry> (unlike last time)
[20:28] <cwayne> mterry: awesome
[20:29] <cwayne> mterry: is the session-manager-touch any different from the one i built yesterday?
[20:30] <mterry> cwayne, slightly, I merged from trunk.  But not in an appreciable way for your testing
[20:32] <cwayne> mterry: alright, building now
[20:33] <cwayne> mterry: once we get this solved, any chance you can help me out with the welcome screen wallpaper business?
[20:33] <mterry> cwayne, again, it should be fixed by this branch?
[20:33] <mterry> cwayne, you found that it wasn't?
[20:33] <cwayne> mterry: yeah, i get a Permission Denied
[20:33] <mterry> cwayne, wait... doing what?
[20:34] <cwayne> mterry: doing that dbus-send setBackground or whatever in an upstart job
[20:35] <mterry> cwayne, do we still need that?  I thought I changed unity8's greeter to fallback to the gsetting value
[20:35] <cwayne> mterry: you did, which is a good start, but a carrier/oem may want to customize the welcome screen to something different too
[20:35] <cwayne> if that's the case, we need a mechanism to do it
[20:35] <mterry> cwayne, OK, fair
[20:36] <mterry> cwayne, was your dbus-send call running as phablet or root?
[20:36] <cwayne> mterry: phablet i think.  its an a session upstart job
[20:37] <mterry> cwayne, yup, that's phablet.  So that should work once this lightdm stuff does.  It will give you permission denied in the meantime because policykit is denying you, based on the fact that logind thinks your session isn't active.  But lightdm whacks logind over the head in these branches
[20:38] <cwayne> hm ok
[20:38] <cwayne> ill try it out :)
[20:39] <mterry> cwayne, I assume your upstart job is written in a way to avoid a race condition?  Seems like that would be a problem unless you did something like "start on starting unity8"
[20:39] <cwayne> mterry: i think i did start on started dbus and starting unty8
[20:40] <mterry> cwayne, should work.  Though I think starting unity8 should be sufficient, because it also needs dbus
[20:40] <cwayne> mterry: i'll try it out once this builds
[20:44] <jdstrand> stgraber: I think so. it seems like I could drop this into /etc/init/boot-hooks:
[20:44] <jdstrand> start on boot-hooks WHEN=new-version
[20:44] <jdstrand> script
[20:44] <jdstrand>     aa-clickhook -f
[20:44] <jdstrand> end script
[20:45] <stgraber> yep, or actually replacing the script section by a "exec aa-clickhook -f" which will save you a pointless fork+shell
[20:45] <jdstrand> yeah, I couldn't remember the syntax otoh, so I did it that way :)
[20:45] <OrokuSaki_> Anyone getting bad fps playing 720p mp4's?? I can play 480p mp4's with a good framerate... but not 720p
[20:46] <stgraber> lool, slangasek: can one of you think of something else I should be supporting in the initial implementation of the boot time hooks: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6151759/ (for bug 1215092)
[20:46] <lool> jdstrand: had you filed a bug for the upgrade problem you ran into?  stgraber was asking me for an id earlier
[20:47] <jdstrand> lool: I did not. I didn't have the information needed for it to be useful
[20:47] <popey> ogra_: asac mail sent
[20:47] <mterry> Cimi, did you ever get around to looking at the welcome-wizard language-change work?
[20:47] <ogra_> popey, thx
[20:47] <jdstrand> all I could say was "yeah, I flashed a while ago and I remounted rw a few times, installed stuff. I think I remount ro before rebooted, but maybe not"
[20:47] <jdstrand> I did make a note to keep an eye on it
[20:48] <lool> stgraber: seems about right
[20:48] <lool> jdstrand: you can't remount ro (or at least I never managed to)
[20:48] <jdstrand> lool: oh, I do all the time. only once was I not able to
[20:48] <Anonynimity> so, in porting ubuntu-touch to a new device, is it REQUIRED that one have CM10.+
[20:48] <Anonynimity> ?
[20:49] <lool> stgraber: could you post this on ubuntu-phone@ either before or after landing the first version in case someone has different use case / needs?
[20:49] <stgraber> jdstrand: ok, missing files are after an upgrade is a bit scary as I just checked and we definitely call a good old "sync" at the end of an upgrade, so corruption or missing files after that point sounds like a kernel bug...
[20:49] <jdstrand> surely depends on what we are doing-- for me it is installing a new version of apparmor-easyprof-ubuntu 99% of the time :)
[20:49] <lool> jdstrand: maybe it's because I use adb, I just try to mount -o remount,ro / and it never works, always tells me busy
[20:49] <ogra_> Anonynimity, no, but it will make the porting a lot harder
[20:49] <lool> I tend to dpkg -i something
[20:49]  * jdstrand too
[20:49] <lool> bah, I guess I'm doing it wrong
[20:50] <Anonynimity> alright, and ogra_, will I need to extract my phone's boot.img-kernel file?
[20:50] <stgraber> lool: remount,ro works fine for me if you do it quickly enough that nothing running noticed / was read-write :) (if any rw fd got opened in between, the remount will fail)
[20:50] <ogra_> Anonynimity, you need the kernel source
[20:50] <jdstrand> stgraber: I was missing /var/lib/dpkg/status. that's about all I can say. I don't know how to reproduce
[20:50] <ogra_> and need to build it
[20:50] <Anonynimity> where would I find the kernel source ogra_?
[20:50] <jdstrand> stgraber: (I did have status-old)
[20:50] <jdstrand> stgraber: when are boot-hooks expected to run?
[20:50] <ogra_> Anonynimity, you should be able to get it from the phone vendor
[20:51] <Anonynimity> Huawei does not provide the kernel source.
[20:51] <jdstrand> stgraber: relative to other jobs that is
[20:51] <Anonynimity> not to end users
[20:51] <stgraber> jdstrand: ok, if that ever happens again, don't run any upgrade and ping me so maybe we can figure it out based on logs at that point
[20:51] <lool> jdstrand: for me this smells like most recent file written to fs (typically after dpkg -i)
[20:51] <ogra_> Anonynimity, they have to, by law
[20:51] <Anonynimity> they said "I don't know what you're talking about, but I don't have access to that information" at ogra_
[20:51] <ogra_> Anonynimity, anyway, without kernel source you wont be able to port
[20:52] <mfisch> stgraber: can you or ogra review this change to the initramfs tools?  https://code.launchpad.net/~mfisch/ubuntu/saucy/initramfs-tools-ubuntu-touch/customization-stamps/+merge/187094
[20:52] <stgraber> jdstrand: the plan is to emit those events right after mountall says it's done
[20:52] <Anonynimity> and I can extract that source from my phone ogra_?
[20:52] <stgraber> jdstrand: (guaranteeing all the bind-mounts are there)
[20:53] <jdstrand> lool: I have a firewall that I run ro. after upgrading if I can't remount,ro, I use 'sudo lsof / | grep DEL'
[20:53] <jdstrand> lool: that is almost always the problem on that system
[20:53] <ogra_> Anonynimity, no, you cant extract source from kernel binaries easily ... yu can report your vendor at http://gpl-violations.org/ though, they have to provide yoou the source
[20:54] <Anonynimity> not easily, but it can be done ogra_?
[20:54] <ogra_> Anonynimity, if you know any disassembly experts
[20:54] <ogra_> (i dont)
[20:54] <stgraber> mfisch: so does that mean a user essentially can't remove any of your custom content?
[20:55] <Anonynimity> mmm... okay... scripts?
[20:55] <stgraber> mfisch: (as it'll be re-appearing every time an update is pushed out)
[20:55] <OrokuSaki_> @ogra... anyone else with devices having framerate issues with mp4 and gstreamer and 720p? am I a loner??? I swear 3d accel is working..
[20:55] <jdstrand> stgraber: so, I will have another job that should really be run after that (ie, on every boot). I would just use a 'start on started boot-hooks' in there?
[20:55] <Anonynimity> perhaps mounting the img-kernel file and copying it?
[20:55] <ogra_> OrokuSaki_, our gstreamer stack didnt land yet
[20:55] <OrokuSaki_> sweet! thanks man!
[20:55] <cwayne> mterry: which debs do i need to install? just lightdm? or all of them
[20:55] <mfisch> stgraber: yes that is how it will work as coded
[20:55] <OrokuSaki_> Nice music-app by the way.. =)
[20:56] <Anonynimity> perhaps mounting the img-kernel file and copying it? @ogra_
[20:56] <ogra_> Anonynimity, you need to make changes to the code and re-build it ...
[20:56] <mfisch> stgraber: we could probably make it more tight by only updating important stuff like upstart jobs
[20:56] <ogra_> Anonynimity, that wont work without the source code
[20:56] <mfisch> stgraber: the lack of an updateable customization bundle now is causing non-dev consternation
[20:56] <OrokuSaki_> I had to change my init.rc and move up sensorservice to run right after surfaceflinger instead of it running right before ubuntu app manager... stuff
[20:56] <Anonynimity> and the source would be in that .img file ogra?
[20:56] <mterry> cwayne, lightdm itself should be sufficient, I have a habit of just doing *.deb though
[20:56] <popey> Anonynimity: no
[20:57] <popey> Anonynimity: you _need_ to ask the phone vendor, and pressure them to provide it
[20:57] <ogra_> mfisch, what happens if the user filled up his filesystem with videos and music ?
[20:57] <cwayne> mterry: i tried *.deb and it had a bunch of dep errors, let me see
[20:57] <ogra_> mfisch, please add some fallback way that doesnt hang the boot hard
[20:57] <mterry> cwayne, probably for the -dev
[20:57] <cwayne> ya
[20:57] <mterry> cwayne, apt-get install -f to fix those
[20:58] <mterry> cwayne, else don't worry about them
[20:58] <stgraber> ogra_: it shouldn't hang the boot, failure in the initrd are ignored (we don't run with -e)
[20:58] <mterry> don't need the -dev
[20:58] <ogra_> stgraber, doesnt /init run with -e ?
[20:58] <mfisch> ogra_: okay I need to think about this more
[20:58] <stgraber> ogra_: we've had a few images where we were calling chown even though the binary didn't exist, that never caused any problem
[20:58]  * ogra_ always thought it did
[20:58] <ogra_> stgraber, ok then ...
[20:58] <pmcgowan> sergiusens, do you know how a click package can provide a default settings file
[20:58] <mfisch> I think we could live by banning the addition sample content post-release
[20:59] <mfisch> the instance i'm thinking of was a new upstart job
[20:59] <sergiusens> pmcgowan, what do you mean, have an example?
[20:59] <ogra_> stgraber, it will still break if ~/ is full though
[20:59] <ogra_> so wont do its duty
[20:59] <stgraber> ogra_: I'm not against a general || true next to that customize_image call though :)
[20:59] <mfisch> yeah that would work
[20:59] <pmcgowan> sergiusens, sure, browser app has default settings at install like homepage
[20:59] <mfisch> we dont want to make the script fail
[20:59] <pmcgowan> its in a file or db
[20:59] <stgraber> ogra_: and yeah, I expect our phone to behave quite badly if /home is full, but the user can do that even without the customization stuff...
[20:59] <pmcgowan> sergiusens, where would it get installed, how to tell click about it
[21:00] <ogra_> mfisch, right, but are you willing to live with the fact that your custom stuff doesnt get copied on full homedir ?
[21:00] <sergiusens> pmcgowan, I know jdstrand discussed the proper way for that on the phone lists... click would know nothing about it
[21:00] <sergiusens> pmcgowan, delegated to the app
[21:00] <mfisch> ogra_: I dont see what the alternative is, besides failing the update
[21:00] <pmcgowan> sergiusens, let me check the list then
[21:00] <slangasek> stgraber: so why use upstart jobs for these hooks instead of a run-parts?
[21:00] <ogra_> stgraber, we should work out some saftey mechanism then for 14.04 :)
[21:01] <ogra_> mfisch, i dont know either, but its an intresting prob we should aattck for 14.04
[21:01] <stgraber> slangasek: so that the individual jobs can depend on extra things (start on boot-hooks WHEN=every-boot and started dbus)
[21:01] <slangasek> stgraber: ok
[21:01] <cwayne> mterry: \o/
[21:01] <ssweeny> mfisch, it seems like maybe we shouldn't be messing with HOME for existing accounts?
[21:01] <slangasek> stgraber: seems fine then
[21:01] <cwayne> mterry: going on 3 reboots now, seeing video every time
[21:02]  * ogra_ hugs cwayne
[21:02] <ogra_> thanks for testing !
[21:02] <mterry> cwayne, nice :)  -- you saw video before, but it was really delayed, right?
[21:02] <ssweeny> mfisch, like make the copy on first boot but once that's been done never do it again
[21:02] <mterry> mfisch, I saw your blog post promoting pbuilder-scripts  :)
[21:02] <cwayne> mterry: yes and it was also pretty intermittent
[21:02] <stgraber> slangasek: ok, I'll prepare a merge proposal introducing that to lxc-android-config and send an e-mail to ubuntu-touch about it then (at lool's request)
[21:02] <mterry> cwayne, OK.  Well, awesome
[21:03] <cwayne> ogra_: for all the stuff i ask of you guys, testing is the absolute least i can do :D
[21:03] <mterry> cwayne, now I want to see if this fixed your dbus-send issue
[21:03] <ogra_> heh
[21:03] <cwayne> mterry: regardless, im not seeing a huge delay anyway
[21:03] <mterry> cwayne, good
[21:03] <mfisch> ssweeny: I'd buy that
[21:05] <ssweeny> mfisch, what we really should be doing as far as per-user settings  and content is setting defaults then doing a "factory" set of the phablet user. after that if there are updates to the custom tarball new users will get it but we won't overwrite someone's existing settings
[21:05] <mfisch> ssweeny: good point, so for our use case we'll just ask demo preppers to remove .customized
[21:05] <ssweeny> mfisch, agreed
[21:06] <mfisch> ogra_ & stgraber: okay, so I'm going to drop that, thanks for the ideas for thought
[21:07] <ssweeny> mfisch, ideally this would all happen before the phablet user is created but i don't know if we can do that.
[21:07] <ssweeny> we wouldn't even need the .customized flag if that were the case
[21:07] <stgraber> mfisch: ok. I think if you wanted something more reliable, you'd need to basically put revisions under your /home and iterate through them (lower to highest), copying stuff from that to /home and then save what was the last revision you applied in your stamp file
[21:08] <stgraber> mfisch: next boot, you check if you've got a directory with an higher revision than what's applied, if you do, you copy those files over and update the stamp
[21:08] <mfisch> stgraber: could we use the diff that you generate for updates to do something similar?
[21:08] <stgraber> mfisch: that way, people can remove stuff but you can still add some too
[21:08] <stgraber> mfisch: and I'd keep an "always" directory containing files that should always be copied over (like your upstart jobs and similar stuff)
[21:09] <stgraber> mfisch: I'd just use your existing VCS for that, it won't be any better than my diffs. (bzr st -r tag:<previous version>..)
[21:10] <stgraber> mfisch: any file that gets changed should just be moved to the latest revision, there's no point in keeping older versions around in the tarball
[21:10] <stgraber> (anyway, just food for thought, it's your stuff, not mine ;))
[21:10] <mfisch> stgraber: thanks, I'll think about it. I think for now "no updates" is reasonable
[21:10] <ogra_> ssweeny, the user is created at build time currently
[21:10]  * mfisch saves this convo
[21:10] <ogra_> (image build time)
[21:10] <mfisch> ssweeny: just like N7
[21:12] <ssweeny> right
[21:12] <ssweeny> that's why i don't think we can do it
[21:12] <ssweeny> although i believe we will eventually have some kind of new user setup that will run on first boot. we may be able to use that
[21:14] <mterry> robert_ancell, hello
[21:14] <robert_ancell> mterry, hi
[21:14] <mterry> robert_ancell, sorry for the accidental push  /.\
[21:14] <robert_ancell> mterry, meh, it happens :)
[21:14] <mterry> robert_ancell, so what do you think about the chances of uploading it?  Should we wait until post Beta?
[21:15] <pmcgowan> jdstrand, you around?
[21:15] <jdstrand> pmcgowan: yes
[21:15] <robert_ancell> mterry, I've no opposition to uploading it, just depends on the archive admin current mood. It's a bug fix as I see it
[21:15] <pmcgowan> jdstrand, was trying to sort out how or if an app can provide a file with the click app install, like default settings
[21:16] <jdstrand> heh, replied in another window
[21:16] <jdstrand> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Specifications/ApplicationConfinement/Permissions/1.0
[21:17] <jdstrand> pmcgowan: that tells you all that paths that are available
[21:17] <mterry> robert_ancell, alright, please try if you have time
[21:17] <robert_ancell> mterry, will do
[21:17] <mterry> thanks!
[21:17] <jdstrand> pmcgowan: so when the app starts, there is a chdir to the install directory
[21:18] <jdstrand> pmcgowan: so you can ship a file or sqlite db for settings in the install directory
[21:18] <robert_ancell> jasoncwarner, hey, olli said you might have some questions about lightdm & touch?
[21:18] <jdstrand> pmcgowan: you could then copy it over/etc to your writable area if that makes sense for your app
[21:19] <pmcgowan> jdstrand, ok then the app is running in the install dir, and relative paths are there
[21:19] <jdstrand> pmcgowan: you seed it by providing it in your click package
[21:19] <jdstrand> yes
[21:19] <pmcgowan> ok simple
[21:20] <pmcgowan> jdstrand, and as far as I know we did not define a way for apps to get system wide settings?
[21:20] <pmcgowan> or file access?
[21:21] <jdstrand> pmcgowan: system wide settings-- the decision was there was nothing that apps needed at this time. that was part of the discussion I brought up earlier today with seb128
[21:21] <pmcgowan> jdstrand, right just catching up once I got thinking about it
[21:21] <jdstrand> pmcgowan: so there is no gsettings access allowed now (requires quite a bit of work to do correctly)
[21:21] <pmcgowan> I think its ok
[21:22] <jdstrand> pmcgowan: file access is unfortunately a matter of writing a qml extension
[21:22] <pmcgowan> jdstrand, thinking about customization of app defaults
[21:22] <pmcgowan> seems to imply customizing the click package
[21:23] <jdstrand> pmcgowan: but, there are a a couple of workarounds. eg, qtdeclarative5-xmllistmodel-plugin will actually take a file url
[21:23] <mterry> cwayne, any word on the dbus-send?
[21:23] <jdstrand> pmcgowan: but I think that is fetch only
[21:23] <jdstrand> pmcgowan: and the u1db specifies a database in your application directory
[21:24] <pmcgowan> jdstrand, my app directory being .local/applications/foo?
[21:24] <pmcgowan> er share
[21:24] <cwayne> mterry: trying it now
[21:24] <jdstrand> pmcgowan: it might be possible, without having to go to writing your own extension, to provide an xml file with seeds, access it via qtdeclarative5-xmllistmodel-plugin, then use LocalStorage (sqlite) or u1db (json) to store it in the app directory thereafter
[21:25] <jdstrand> pmcgowan: .local/applications/<applicationName> after kalikiana's appname branch hits, yes (where applicationName corresponds to "name" in your click manifest.json)
[21:26] <pmcgowan> jdstrand, and those files via xmllistmodel can be anywhere?
[21:26] <jdstrand> pmcgowan: otoh, I don't know how to use LocalStorage-- at least a couple of the core-apps use it. I want to see weather, but not sure
[21:27] <jdstrand> pmcgowan: well, the need to be in your install directory ortherwise application confinement will block the read
[21:27] <pmcgowan> jdstrand, so really the same as copying a file to .local
[21:28] <jasoncwarner> robert_ancell system settings needs lightdm to land so we can have all the settings work. seb128 and Laney have the details. mterry was working on it, but I guess there was a regression on galaxy nexus so it was backed out.
[21:28] <jdstrand> pmcgowan: yes, but without having to write a C++ extension
[21:28] <jdstrand> pmcgowan: (to do the copy)
[21:28] <pmcgowan> I see of course
[21:28] <mterry> jasoncwarner, we've got a fix for that hopefully landing soon
[21:28] <robert_ancell> jasoncwarner, ok, cool. I know of a few issues mterry is working though, just wondering if there was something else I didn't know of that's blocking it
[21:29] <jdstrand> pmcgowan: maybe you could tell LocalStorage to read from the install dir and then write to the writable dir, but I'm thinking probably not via pure QML
[21:29] <pmcgowan> jdstrand, then there is the problem if user makes settings changes, need to preserve on updates
[21:29] <jasoncwarner> robert_ancell I don't *think* so.
[21:29] <cwayne> root@ubuntu-phablet:/# cat /home/phablet/.cache/upstart/welcome-background.log
[21:29] <cwayne> method return sender=:1.12 -> dest=:1.43 reply_serial=2
[21:29] <jasoncwarner> mterry that is awesome. you think that will land today or tomorrow?
[21:29] <cwayne> mterry: ^
[21:29] <cwayne> mterry: but the screen itself isn't changed.
[21:29] <pmcgowan> jdstrand, thanks thats helpful
[21:29] <jdstrand> pmcgowan: well, you only pull in the seed if the settings db doesn't already exist
[21:30] <jdstrand> pmcgowan: so it should all just work since the writable dir where the settings db will live (ie, the one the user modifies) isn't versioned
[21:30] <mterry> jasoncwarner, robert_ancell hopes to upload the lightdm fix soon.  Then we need to land the ubuntu-touch-session branch that actually does the switch (again)
[21:30] <mterry> that one may happen tomorrow?
[21:30] <jdstrand> pmcgowan: np
[21:31] <pmcgowan> jdstrand, wait why does that help
[21:31] <mterry> cwayne, well.   That log file indicates success at least
[21:31] <mterry> cwayne, better than before...
[21:31] <cwayne> progress i suppose
[21:31] <cwayne> mterry: now i just don't get why it's not actually changed
[21:31] <mterry> cwayne, I can help debug tomorrow
[21:31] <cwayne> mterry: alright, cool thanks
[21:31]  * mterry signs off
[21:34] <jdstrand> pmcgowan: I was responding to your comment on if the user makes settings changes
[21:34] <jdstrand> pmcgowan: install_dir/seed -> writable_dir/db if writable_dir/db doesn't exist
[21:35] <jdstrand> pmcgowan: writable_dir/db is used thereafter
[21:35] <jdstrand> pmcgowan: version 0.1 and version 0.2 of the app will use writable_dir/db
[21:35] <pmcgowan> jdstrand, probably missing something, but the app would need to maintain compatibility
[21:35] <jdstrand> pmcgowan: (writable_dir is just the "name" in the click manifest, and not the version)
[21:35] <pmcgowan> if the defaults or schema changed or whatever
[21:35] <jdstrand> pmcgowan: oh yes-- I misunderstood
[21:36] <pmcgowan> ok
[21:36] <jdstrand> pmcgowan: absolutely. but that is a normal for an app to do
[21:36] <pmcgowan> right indeed
[21:36] <jdstrand> s/normal/normal thing/
[21:37] <jdstrand> pmcgowan: fyi, give this to the 'source' in your model: source: Qt.resolvedUrl("./seeds.xml") for local access
[21:38] <pmcgowan> right ok
[21:38] <jdstrand> pmcgowan: I haven't specifically tried with the xmllist one, but because you are using Qt.resolvedUrl(), that should handle the local file access
[21:38] <jdstrand> (I did use Qt.resolvedUrl() for an http url with xmllist, and it worked fine, so I expect a relative one to work
[21:38] <jdstrand> )
[21:39] <jdstrand> I used Qt.resolvedUrl() with a json list model fine
[21:39] <jdstrand> (on a local url)
[21:40] <pmcgowan> jdstrand, do you agree that customizing app defaults implies a custom app package
[21:41] <jdstrand> pmcgowan: I'm not sure I understand. what is the specific problem?
[21:41] <pmcgowan> jdstrand, xys oem wants to set its website as the browser homepage
[21:42] <pmcgowan> jdstrand, maybe sample videos for mediaplayer and video scope is another
[21:43] <jdstrand> pmcgowan: it could mean a custom package, but it doesn't have to. eg, I can put a rule in the apparmor templates for '/custom/app/seeds/** r,' (made up path)
[21:43] <pmcgowan> jdstrand, and the app could just check there first
[21:44] <jdstrand> pmcgowan: that would then allow apps to access those files. the apps would have to be adjusted to look there, etc, etc
[21:44] <jdstrand> pmcgowan: yeah
[21:44] <pmcgowan> yeah ok
[21:44] <pmcgowan> may need that at some point
[21:44] <Truth_Seeker1> hi everyone, I am not a developer but was wondering, how will Ubuntu Touch receive security updates?
[21:45] <jdstrand> pmcgowan: we can do the same with example content-- but I wonder if a click hook might be better for that
[21:45] <Truth_Seeker1> that is, after the official version is released October 17th?
[21:45] <jdstrand> pmcgowan: either way, there are options to achieve that
[21:45] <pmcgowan> jdstrand, ack
[21:47] <Truth_Seeker1> How will the officially released version of Ubuntu Touch keep itself up-to-date?
[21:48] <Anonynimity> okay, if I get the source code from google, can I use that once I build a source for my phone?
[21:49] <jdstrand> pmcgowan: today I already added a couple rules for themes in /custom. I think cwayne might have been thinking about the browser url bit already today
[21:49] <pmcgowan> jdstrand, good thats what got me started on this
[21:50] <jdstrand> pmcgowan: I'm heading out for a bit, but if you need anything, holler and I'll read backscroll
[21:50] <pmcgowan> jdstrand, thanks I am pretty much done
[21:50] <jdstrand> pmcgowan: cool, have a nice evening :)
[21:50] <pmcgowan> you too
[21:51] <Truth_Seeker1> anyone?
[21:51] <pmcgowan> Truth_Seeker1, there is an update mechanism in place so for some period of time updates will flow for this version, although not that long as its still a work in process
[21:51] <pmcgowan> Truth_Seeker1, then users would be expected to move to the next development version
[21:53] <Truth_Seeker1> pmcgowan I mean how will the official version when it is released be updated when future updates come out?  Will it work like Windows Update on my laptop?
[21:54] <pmcgowan> Truth_Seeker1, the phone will see an update is available and download and install, this mechanism is an image based update as opposed to apt based
[21:54] <pmcgowan> so a phone in retail will work similar to current handsets but we hope with more frequent updates due to our model
[21:56] <Truth_Seeker1> I'm a little confused but good that there is an update mechanism in place and hopefully it won't require you to reinstall all of your apps after the update
[21:58] <popey> Truth_Seeker1: there's two update tools. one which updates the platform, and one which updates apps
[21:58] <popey> Truth_Seeker1: much like the difference between system updates in android and play store app updates
[21:58] <popey> Truth_Seeker1: or on ios, system updates and itunes store updates...
[21:58] <Truth_Seeker1> ok
[21:58] <popey> much the same mechanism, but ours could be more frequent, incremental ones
[21:59] <Truth_Seeker1> I don't even own a smartphone yet, but I understand what you're saying
[22:00] <Truth_Seeker1> I'm thinking about getting a smartphone soon
[22:00] <Truth_Seeker1> probably not iOS
[22:02] <kyhwana> Truth_Seeker1: get a nexus phone?
[22:02] <Truth_Seeker1> I like the idea of being able to take a phone and plug it into a tablet dock to turn it into a tablet (see http://www.migoaltech.com/products.php?CateId=29 )
[22:04] <Truth_Seeker1> and it seems like Ubuntu Touch is designed to scale form factors more so than any other mobile OS
[22:05] <Truth_Seeker1> which is why I'm interested in it
[22:07] <luckydex> Has ubuntu touch decided how it is going to get around the need for proprietary drivers?
[22:08] <kyhwana> luckydex: they can't, really
[22:08] <Truth_Seeker1> but those tablet docks only work with the Galaxy S3 and S4, and Canonical isn't developing Ubuntu Touch for those phones, though developers are porting Ubuntu to those phones
[22:10] <Truth_Seeker1> so if I buy an S3 or S4 and want to put Ubuntu on it, it would have to be a developer-ported version
[22:10] <Truth_Seeker1> and I see that there are people working to port Ubuntu to the S3
[22:12] <kyhwana> Truth_Seeker1: and not everything would work properly, etc
[22:13] <Truth_Seeker1> but my question is will developer-ported versions of Ubuntu Touch receive updates the same way as official versions?
[22:13] <Truth_Seeker1> After the official version is released, that is?
[22:14] <Truth_Seeker1> direct from Canonical?
[22:23] <jono> Saviq, around?
[22:23] <Saviq> jono, kinda
[22:23] <jono> Saviq, cool, any idea which LP project the music scope is?
[22:23] <Saviq> jono, unity-scope-mediascanner
[22:23] <jono> Saviq, that is the scope as well as media scanner?
[22:24] <Saviq> jono, that is the scope that uses the media scanner
[22:24] <jono> thanks
[22:24] <jono> and that scope is in the images now?
[22:24] <Chocanto> fginther: Jenkin just tell me : " ubuntu-docviewer-app : Depends: file-qml-plugin but it is not installable" file-qml-plugin is not in the correct PPA ?
[22:33] <Truth_Seeker1> When the official version of Ubuntu Touch is released on October 17th, and developers port that version to other phones--such as the S3--will developer-ported versions receive future updates the same way as the official version - directly from Canonical?
[22:35] <fginther> Chocanto, I'll take a look, but I need to go offline for a an hour or two
[22:36] <Chocanto> fginther: I will be on bed, so take your time ^^
[22:39] <popey> TheSeven: for the platform parts we make, I believe so, yes
[22:40] <popey> oops
[22:40] <popey> Truth_Seeker1: ^^
[22:41] <Truth_Seeker1> heh
[22:41] <Truth_Seeker1> popey you said "we".  Are you saying that you work for Canonical?
[22:41] <popey> i do
[22:41] <popey> many people here do
[22:42] <Truth_Seeker1> wow cool
[22:43] <Truth_Seeker1> what do you mean when you say "for the platform parts we make"?
[22:47] <popey> well, we don't provide the binary blobs / drivers for sensors, etc
[22:47] <popey> but a big read-only image, and delta updates afterwards
[22:47] <popey> I believe the same big read-only image works on any device
[22:49]  * TheSeven throws some spinach at popey
[22:49]  * popey throws a dictionary at TheSeven
[22:50] <Truth_Seeker1> popey: on my laptop, Dell provides the drivers, and Microsoft provides the OS and all updates to it.  Is that similar to what you're saying?
[22:50] <popey> kinda
[22:55] <cwayne> sergiusens: https://code.launchpad.net/~cwayne18/phablet-tools/phablet-timezone-setup/+merge/186891 please :)
[22:56] <Truth_Seeker1> Popey: cool, it sounds like after the official version of Ubuntu Touch is released in about a month, and some other developer ports it to some other phones like the Galaxy S3 or S4, updates to that port (other than hardware updates and driver updates) will come directly from Canonical?  Is that right?
[22:57] <popey> updates to core software will
[22:57] <popey> like unity, apps, indicators
[22:58] <popey> thats my understanding anyway
[22:58] <sergiusens> cwayne, I was waiting for the lxc stuff to hit stable
[22:59] <sergiusens> cwayne, I'll give it a go in rw and happrove
[22:59] <cwayne> sergiusens: ah, i didn't realize you were waiting on stable, that's reasonable
[23:00] <sergiusens> cwayne, well it is happroved
[23:01] <cwayne> sergiusens: thanks
[23:06] <CecilJr> Hello, I have a question, I use ubuntu as my everyday PC, I love it, I'm excited for ubuntu touch and have a Huawei Ascend y300, but this is not a device on the list, I would like help on flashing it, only if possible.
[23:06] <Truth_Seeker1> popey when you say "core software" do you mean all parts of the OS that aren't hardware-specific?
[23:06] <kyhwana> CecilJr: if it's not on the list, it's probably not possible
[23:07] <CecilJr> Well the ones on the list are ones that have Image's right? so i guess it just dones't have a Image yet. Just wondering.
[23:23] <popey> Truth_Seeker1: ya
[23:25] <Truth_Seeker1> popey: just so I make sure that I understand you correctly, "core software" means all parts of the OS that aren't hardware-specific?
[23:26] <popey> Truth_Seeker1: as I understand it, yeah
[23:26] <popey> i.e. the bit outside the android container
[23:28] <Truth_Seeker1> cool
[23:29] <Truth_Seeker1> I wish I understood all of this programmer speak :-)
[23:29] <Truth_Seeker1> popey
[23:30] <popey> me too ☻
[23:30] <Truth_Seeker1> LOL
[23:30] <popey> and so to bed
[23:30] <popey> nice chatting..
[23:31] <Truth_Seeker1> thanks
[23:42] <Truth_Seeker1> alright thanks everyone, cya
[23:56] <Neo31> hello folks
[23:57] <Neo31> I need some information from someone who's following current ubuntu touch projects!
[23:57] <Neo31> can someone point me to a good ubuntu touch project using C++ with QML instead of JS with QML ??
[23:58] <RobbyF> until someone answers it more accurately this may help search: https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone/
[23:59] <RobbyF> lots of talkin the mailing list.