[01:09] <genii> Bah : <rito> Wintre, I am a worker here,....please dont cause trouble ok : )
[01:26] <|_ocke> how long's my ban from ot?
[01:26] <Seeker`> 1) What did you do?
[01:27] <Seeker`> 2) How many times have you asked that question?
[01:27] <|_ocke> 1: inappropriate chat of a sexual nature (but no swearing)
[01:27] <|_ocke> 2: this is the first time
[01:27] <Seeker`> who banned you?
[01:28] <|_ocke> umm hang on
[01:28] <Seeker`> @btlogin
[01:28] <|_ocke> jussi01
[01:31] <Seeker`> I reckon it will be at least 3 days, come back and ask jussi in 8 hours or so
[01:31] <Seeker`> its up to him
[01:33] <Seeker`> |_ocke: anything else I can help you with?
[01:36] <Jack_Sparrow> jrib, something 132 wont listen and has been asked numerous times to stop spamming and using enter etc..
[01:36] <|_ocke> nope
[01:36] <|_ocke> all good
[01:36] <|_ocke> i just got off work and noticed i was still banninated
[01:39] <jrib> Jack_Sparrow: mute and pm?
[01:40] <Jack_Sparrow> jrib, Tried pm twice.. but he seems quiet now
[01:41] <genii> Weird. Why does !chroot say something about building 32bit environments?
[01:41] <Jack_Sparrow> genii, Hi, ...   care to rewrite it
[01:42] <genii> Jack_Sparrow: I'm not sure what to put exactly. But the current one is pretty strange,
[01:42] <Seeker`> !chroot
[01:43] <genii> Maybe: Chroot is "change root" You can use this command to run command or interactive shell with special root directory.         (lifted a bit from the manpage)
[01:46] <genii> Seeker`: Does it seem odd to you as well or no? (the curent factoid)
[01:47] <Seeker`> it doesn't seem to cover chroots
[01:47] <Seeker`> it covers one specific case
[01:47] <Seeker`> s/case/usecase
[02:04] <nickrud> maybe mention something like. 'Often used for compiling 32bit applications in 64bit environments or repairing not booting systems.' for the people that find 'You can use this command to run command or interactive shell with special root directory.' incomprehensible
[02:05] <nickrud> s/not/none/
[02:05] <nickrud> arg, but you get the idea
[02:06] <tritium> Good evening.
[02:08] <Seeker`> lo
[02:11] <Seeker`> "Chroot is used to make programs believe that the directory they are running in is really the root directory. It can be used to stop programs accessing files outside of that directory, or for compiling 32bit applications in a 64bit environment"
[02:15] <genii> Seeker`: Looks good :)
[02:16] <Seeker`> you can add it then :)
[02:17] <genii> I think I tried that before, didn't have editing rights on factoids or so
[02:21] <Seeker`> !chroot is  used to make programs believe that the directory they are running in is really the root directory. It can be used to stop programs accessing files outside of that directory, or for compiling 32bit  applications in a 64bit environment
[02:22] <Seeker`> ubottu: no, !chroot is  used to make programs believe that the directory they are running in is really the root directory. It can be used to stop programs accessing files outside of that directory, or for compiling 32bit  applications in a 64bit environment
[02:22] <Seeker`> ubottu: no, chroot is used to make programs believe that the directory they are running in is really the root directory. It can be used to stop programs accessing files outside of that directory, or for compiling 32bit  applications in a 64bit environment
[02:22] <Seeker`> !chroot
[02:23] <Seeker`> ubottu: no, chroot is used to make programs believe that the directory they are running in is really the root directory. It can be used to stop programs accessing files outside of that directory, or for compiling 32bit applications in a 64bit environment (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebootstrapChroot)
[02:23] <Seeker`> genii: try that
[02:23] <genii> !chroot
[02:24] <Seeker`> happy?
[02:24] <genii> !chroot is chroot is used to make programs believe that the directory they are running in is really the root directory. It can be used to stop programs accessing files outside of that directory, or for compiling 32bit applications in a 64bit environment (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebootstrapChroot)
[02:24] <PriceChild> genii: tried with a 'no'?
[02:24] <genii> PriceChild: It's new for me
[02:25] <Seeker`> PriceChild: he doesn't have editing rights, or ubottu would have told him that it already means something else
[02:25] <Seeker`> aiui
[02:25] <genii> I think we went through this a previous time
[02:25] <PriceChild> Seeker`: makes sense, thanks.
[02:29] <Seeker`> bedtime I tihnk
[02:29] <Jack_Sparrow> nini
[02:29] <Seeker`> nini
[02:50] <gouki> When the channel is an official loco channel, are the only bots allowed the ones from the irc team?
[02:50] <tritium> gouki: not necessarily.  The LoCo can install their own bots.
[02:51] <gouki> tritium, OK. Just wanted to confirm it. Thank you.
[02:52] <tritium> gouki: no problem
[03:11] <Jack_Sparrow> damO was ban evading..
[03:13] <Jack_Sparrow> @login
[03:13] <Jack_Sparrow> @btlogin
[03:15] <stdin> genii: they speak Portuguese in Brazil
[03:16] <genii> stdin: krumin is a spanish port of linux
[03:16] <genii> *kurumin
[03:17] <stdin> genii: but he was speaking Portuguese
[03:18] <genii> stdin: Ah, my mistake then
[03:19] <genii> Portuguese and Spanish seem mostly the same to me when I see them written
[03:19] <stdin> it's hard to tell between Spanish and Portuguese, online translates clarify :)
[03:20] <stdin> eg http://translate.google.com/translate_t
[03:20] <stdin> yes, google can even translate now! :p
[03:20] <Jack_Sparrow> In that case the ip had br...
[03:21] <stdin> yeah, but you can't always trust the IP, someone may just happen to be an a certain country
[03:21] <genii> I sometimes use babelfish, or occasionally whois the ip/mask t see originating country
[03:22] <Jack_Sparrow> agreed.. but it is another clue
[03:22] <stdin> genii: geoip-bin ftw
[03:23] <stdin> $ geoiplookup <IP_ADDRESS>
[03:23] <stdin> GeoIP Country Edition: BR, Brazil
[03:24] <stdin> works with host names too, not just IPs
[03:39] <genii> stdin: I thought I was already in -ot there actually <laughing>
[03:41] <stdin> I think my brain is in -ot mode, difficult to concentrate for too long
[03:41] <genii> Here too
[03:53] <bazhang> |_ocke, how may we help you
 1: inappropriate chat of a sexual nature (but no swearing)
 2: this is the first time
[03:59] <bazhang> |_ocke, would that be it?
[04:03] <bazhang> |_ocke, couple of points; this is not the first time (more likely 3rd or 4th at least), and please dont idle in here
[04:09] <|_ocke> oh sorry, it auto-joined
[04:09] <|_ocke> only 2nd time, though actually
[04:10] <|_ocke> but that was the first time i asked about this ban
[04:10] <bazhang> you were warned about this type of thing on many many occasions
[04:10] <bazhang> hardly the second by a long shot.
[04:10] <|_ocke> i'm sorry i didn't mean to be stupid, i was drunk and pissed off, and i didn't intend to offend anyone
[04:11] <bazhang> that is what you said every time previously.
[04:11] <bazhang> no reason to believe you now |_ocke
[04:11] <|_ocke> well.. what can i say... it's not the first time i've been drunk
[04:11] <|_ocke> and my irc is on 24/7/365, so...
[04:12] <|_ocke> all i can say is i'm sorry
[04:12] <bazhang> |_ocke, please part now
[04:12] <nbeebo> so now ive been banned for a week or so and i didnt even do anything... on #ubuntu-offtopic btw
[04:12] <|_ocke> k
[04:12] <|_ocke> later
[04:12] <bazhang> nbeebo, how may we help you
[04:16] <nbeebo> i dont know, in the end i want to be unbanned, in the middle i dont know...
[04:17] <bazhang> nbeebo, checking the logs there are at least 4 marks against you; hardly seems to be for 'didn't do anything'
[04:17] <nbeebo> i meant the last time
[04:18] <nbeebo> and the last time i even asked what i did
[04:18] <nbeebo> check that log if u can find it
[04:18] <nbeebo> i think he got personal...
[04:19] <bazhang> nbeebo, my guess is that you ignored many many warnings and continued on nonetheless
[04:19] <nbeebo> i did not
[04:19] <bazhang> nbeebo, in fact I was there for many of those warnings and gave some myself
[04:19] <nbeebo> except they didnt like me say "u"
[04:20] <bazhang> nbeebo, that is certainly not the issue at all; to suggest so is simply dishonest
[04:20] <nbeebo> cant u read logs?
[04:21] <nbeebo> u dont have to maybe wait for someone else, if u admins can at all
[04:21] <bazhang> nbeebo, and considering that the marks are from a wide range of operators, that is confirmed that it was neither personal, nor from the use of 'u'
[04:22] <bazhang> nbeebo, why the hurry to get back into #ubuntu-offtopic ?
[04:22] <bazhang> !coc | nbeebo please read this
[04:22] <bazhang> !guidelines | nbeebo and this
[04:23] <nbeebo> followed the guideline looking in coc now
[04:23] <bazhang> I suggest you read those *carefully* nbeebo and think again why you were banned in #ubuntu-offtopic ; it certainly was not over *nothing*, nor the the use of 'u'.
[04:23] <nbeebo> its never nothing, but shouldnt even be warned for that
[04:24] <bazhang> nbeebo, please dont idle in here as per the channel /topic
[04:24] <nbeebo> ehhh
[04:24] <nbeebo> im not idle
[04:24] <nbeebo> reading the coc
[04:24] <bazhang> nbeebo, please /part the channel now.
[04:30] <bazhang> @mark nbeebo <nbeebo> there exists so many jerks in this world upon parting here (#ubuntu)
[04:31] <nickrud> that is a fact; previous part message proves it
[07:52] <Flannel> jussi01: what'd you need earlier?
[08:54] <Myrtti> moin
[09:02] <Flannel> Howdy Myrtti
[09:03] <Tm_T> Myrtti <3
[09:08]  * elkbuntu huggles myrtti
[09:43] <jussi01> ikonia: ping
[12:28] <ubot3> In #ubuntu-offtopic, rww said: !no, ipv6 is a new version of the Internet Protocol that allows for more IP addresses and makes other important changes. To disable it, read https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WebBrowsingSlowIPv6IPv4 . To enable it, install the "miredo" package.
[13:04] <stdin> !ipv6
[13:05] <stdin> !no, ipv6 is <reply> For an introduction to IPv6 and information on tunneling IPv6 through IPv4 connections, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IPv6. To disable IPv6 see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WebBrowsingSlowIPv6IPv4
[13:07] <ubot3> In #ubuntu-offtopic, stdin said: !no ipv6 is <reply> For an introduction to IPv6 and information on tunneling IPv6 through IPv4 connections, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IPv6 | To disable IPv6 see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WebBrowsingSlowIPv6IPv4
[13:07] <stdin> hush ubot3
[13:56] <Pici> @login
[13:56] <Jack_Sparrow> @login
[13:56] <Jack_Sparrow> @btlogin
[13:56] <Pici> silly rabbit.
[14:12] <Pici> Hrm. Any objections to replacing the url in !training with that of help.ubuntu.com?
[14:12] <jussi01> !training
[14:12] <Pici> I don't think many people would be intersted in just looking at a manual for 7.10
[14:14] <jussi01> how about just !forget training ?
[14:19] <Pici> jussi01: I've aliased it to documentation instead.
[14:19] <Pici> !documentation
[16:25] <Slart> Hello ops.. who handles ubottu when it comes to weird behaviour/bugs etc?
[16:25] <jussi01> !bug
[16:25] <jussi01> Slart: launchpad does
[16:25] <Slart> ah.. nice, thanks jussi01
[16:25] <jussi01> Slart: although you can try get me or stdin in -bots
[16:26] <jussi01> Slart: still better to file a bug though
[16:26] <Slart> I'll do that, thanks for the help
[16:39]  * genii starts brewing a fresh batch of strong coffee
[16:43] <Ursinha> hi genii :)
[16:44] <genii> Ursinha: Hello :)
[17:01] <jpds> http://pthree.org/2009/01/07/rm-rf/ - YES!
[17:52] <jussi01> ikonia: ping
[17:52] <ikonia> pong
[17:54]  * Myrtti pokes herself
[17:54] <Myrtti> feels weird
[17:54] <Tm_T> Myrtti: how so?
[17:55] <Myrtti> I don't like IRC anymore
[17:55] <Myrtti> I have nothing to say
[17:55] <ikonia> always nice to take a break
[18:00] <Tm_T> Myrtti: it's ok, as soon as we get that one channel sorted (;)
[18:00]  * Tm_T hides
[18:00] <Tm_T> Myrtti: really, I have been missing you in IRC
[18:00] <Tm_T> it's far more dull place without proper persons
[18:01] <Tm_T> genii: you're at watch shift in #k atm?
[18:01] <ikonia> many eyes or on #k
[18:01] <Tm_T> good
[18:01] <Tm_T> so I can look elsewhere
[18:04] <genii> I'm at work so not continuously in #k for policing/etc ... I'll go /away when not available for more than a few minutes so you guys can tell
[18:07] <genii> ikonia: What was the issue with wesley__ , I did not catch it
[18:08] <ikonia> he wants to use the jaunty .28 in 8.10 and convert his file systems to ext4, which is fine, but he was told it's not supported and may break as not only the kernels but the ext tools need to be updated too and they are being updated a fair bit in jaunty at the moment
[18:09] <ikonia> genii: and instead of being ok with it he just kept asking "how" to which he was told if he didn't undestand how to do it, it was probably best not to as if he broke it, it wouldn't be supported
[18:09] <ikonia> genii: but then he was a bit rude to a few people warning him of this calling them stupid
[18:10] <genii> ikonia: Aah, OK. Yes he was also yesterday on about compiling latest greatest intel xorg driver, etc
[18:10] <ikonia> hence why I'm not happy about him miss-representing it in #kubuntu
[18:36] <Myrtti> is REISUB supposed to work? 'cause it doesn't.
[18:53] <nickspoon> Myrtti: Does for me, under 8.04.
[18:53] <Myrtti> woohoo.
[18:53] <Pici> Jack_Sparrow: Are you talking to that person in pm?
[18:54] <Jack_Sparrow> trying
[18:54] <Jack_Sparrow> no response yet
[18:54] <Tm_T> hi bluesmoke
[19:03] <Myrtti> bluesmoke: you really should identify to the services if you really are Amaranth.
[19:03] <Myrtti> bluesmoke: takes a bit too much of faith now
[19:03] <Tm_T> Myrtti: I agree on that
[19:04] <Flannel> Identifying defeats the purpose of in cognito
[19:07] <Myrtti> one would wonder why someone would need to be in cognito here
[19:11] <Flannel> Not here, but otherplaces.  Here's only because its silly to be on with two separate clients (with two separate nicks)
[19:12] <Tm_T> no, not really IMO
[19:17] <genii> back
[19:25] <Seeker`> jussi01: is your server likely to be rebooted often?
[19:26] <jussi01> Seeker`: no, it wont be. we just had to add memory and swap ;)
[19:27] <Seeker`> jussi01: ah, cool
[19:27] <Jack_Sparrow> @login
[19:27] <Jack_Sparrow> @btlogin
[19:29] <Amaranth> Myrtti, Tm_T: better? :)
[19:30] <Myrtti> Amaranth: ♥ me love you long taem
[19:32]  * Amaranth runs away
[19:32] <Amaranth> :P
[19:37] <Paddy_EIRE> hey could someone please fire jack_j a final warning as he keeps pestering me pinging me and generally being a twat
[19:37] <ikonia> already taken care of
[19:37] <Paddy_EIRE> thank you
[19:37] <Paddy_EIRE> how do I stop him from pming me
[19:37] <Paddy_EIRE> pm'ing me
[19:37] <ikonia> ignore ?
[19:37] <Seeker`> /ignore?
[19:37] <ikonia>  /ignore
[19:37] <Paddy_EIRE> k
[19:37] <ikonia> ahhh the seeker is quick
[19:37] <Paddy_EIRE> that is not working thoug hyou see :)
[19:38] <Paddy_EIRE> though*
[19:38] <ikonia> you could mention it to a staff member in #freenode
[19:38] <Seeker`> ikonia: :D
[19:38] <Paddy_EIRE> ok
[19:39] <topyli> what always works is passively ignoring the query window :)
[19:39] <ikonia> true
[19:41] <Paddy_EIRE> topyli, not when dcc windows keep popping up on your screen stealing focus
[19:41] <Paddy_EIRE> no thanks..
[19:41] <Paddy_EIRE> ;(
[19:42] <ikonia> Paddy_EIRE: speak to a staff member
[19:42] <Paddy_EIRE> ok.. I am done.. I will be back later when he is gone
[19:42] <Paddy_EIRE> I asked
[19:42] <ikonia> ahh
[19:42] <Paddy_EIRE> no response as yet
[19:50] <topyli> Paddy_EIRE: please /part this channel
[19:50] <topyli> oh :)
[20:12] <Paddy_EIRE> Hey jack_j is still in #xubuntu
[20:12] <Paddy_EIRE> *STILL*
[20:13] <Myrtti> Paddy_EIRE: yes?
[20:13] <Tm_T> topyli: you, brrrrh!
[20:13] <Paddy_EIRE> ah
[20:14] <Myrtti> since when hasn't dcc ignore worked?
[20:14] <Paddy_EIRE> jack_j still has not been taken care of.. I am going to leave for a while.. dcc windows are popping up from him and he is pinging the hell outta me
[20:14] <topyli> Tm_T: yes?
[20:15] <Tm_T> topyli: just failed to notice you hanging this much here
[20:15] <Paddy_EIRE> Ignore kicking and banning aint working
[20:15] <Paddy_EIRE> he is ban evading.. and he is now in #xubuntu
[20:15] <topyli> Tm_T: well i was invited, thought it polite to stay :)
[20:15] <Myrtti> Paddy_EIRE: he's been there for a while, and hasn't misbehaved there
[20:15] <Tm_T> topyli: indeed it is
[20:16] <Paddy_EIRE> Myrtti, well he is intentionally continuing to be abusive to me
[20:16] <Paddy_EIRE> a 24-48 hour ban sounds reasonable
[20:17] <Paddy_EIRE> no lessons are being learned
[20:17] <Myrtti> Paddy_EIRE: errr.
[20:17] <Myrtti> if he hasn't misbehaved on #xubuntu, there is no reason to kick him from there
[20:17] <Myrtti> if he's being abusive to you in pm, then it's not on the channel
[20:17] <PriceChild> Are there any logs I can be pointed to, or is it all in PM?
[20:17] <Paddy_EIRE> well I am off this is getting annoying
[20:17] <Paddy_EIRE> one less helper
[20:18] <Myrtti> right
[20:18] <Myrtti> I hope he understands that pm's and dcc's can't be helped if someone is kicked from a channel
[20:19]  * PriceChild wonders why he wasn't in #xubuntu
[20:19] <jussi01> heya PriceChild!!
[20:19] <PriceChild> Allo jussi01 :)
[20:21] <Tm_T> brrrrh
[20:21] <topyli> i'm afraid poor paddy's understanding is rather selective in the first place :(
[20:22] <Tm_T> "do as I want you to do or I go away" attitude I smell
[20:36] <genii> away for a bit (work)
[21:04] <ikonia> @btlogin
[21:05] <ikonia> @login
[21:05] <ikonia> @btlogin
[21:05] <Amaranth> @login
[21:30] <jussi01> Pici: are *you* on the *list*? :P
[22:11] <kestutis> Hello.
[22:11] <kestutis> Could I ask for a question?
[22:11] <Tm_T> sure
[22:12] <kestutis> I would like to get unbanned,
[22:12] <kestutis> Last time I asked that an operator said me to read the rules and ask again after 48 hours.
[22:15] <Tm_T> who was it?
[22:16] <kestutis> jussi01
[22:17] <Tm_T> kestutis: and which channel?
[22:18] <Tm_T> ah, #ubuntu
[22:18] <Tm_T> kestutis: have you read them?
[22:19] <kestutis> the rules?
[22:19] <Tm_T> yes
[22:19] <kestutis> Yes. i have.
[22:19] <Tm_T> good
[22:19] <Tm_T> understood too?
[22:20] <kestutis> yes.
[22:20] <Tm_T> someone willing to watch over this friend?
[22:20]  * Tm_T is bit busy
[22:20] <ikonia> sure
[22:20] <Tm_T> danke
[22:20] <Jack_Sparrow> Tm_T, IN ubuntu?
[22:21] <Tm_T> I think yes
[22:21] <Jack_Sparrow> np
[22:22] <kestutis> So, i agree with the rules, that i won't be again such as i was before the ban.
[22:23] <ikonia> kestutis: what was it that got you banned ?
[22:24] <Tm_T> ikonia: repeating
[22:24]  * ikonia nudges Tm_T
[22:24] <kestutis> and not listening.
[22:24] <ikonia> ok
[22:24] <Tm_T> ikonia: nuggets?
[22:26] <kestutis> Can i hope to be unbanned soon and get out from ops channel now?
[22:30] <ikonia> looks to me like your unbanned
[22:30] <ikonia> oh wait
[22:30] <ikonia> hang on
[22:30] <ikonia> there you go
[22:30] <ikonia> your unbanned
[22:31] <kestutis> ikonia: thanks:)
[22:34] <Myrtti> headaches </3
[22:35] <ikonia> not good
[23:15] <mrwes> why am I banned from Ubuntu?
[23:17] <mrwes> Jack_Sparrow: why am I banned?
[23:18] <nickrud> @login
[23:18] <nickrud> @btlogin
[23:21] <nickrud> mrwes, you had a long talk here with bahzang and ljl about you ban ...
[23:21] <mrwes> for?
[23:21] <nickrud> mrwes typing with one hand, be patient
[23:22] <mrwes> asking if anyone was using jwm?
[23:25] <nickrud> continuos off topic. you should review the logs for -ops 11/30 if you don't remember the convo
[23:25] <nickrud> !logs
[23:26] <nickrud> bazang or ljl, you'll need to continue with them
[23:26] <mrwes> how was I off topic? by asking about a windows manager?
[23:26] <mrwes> er window..not windows
[23:27] <nickrud> mrwes hm, that was a different ban
[23:28] <mrwes> I'm confused...I was banned oringally for topic and I understood what I did wrong and read the COC, etc.
[23:28] <nickrud> yes and that one wa removed
[23:28] <mrwes> the ban was lifted and I was in the channel several times
[23:28] <mrwes> right
[23:28] <ikonia> Jack_Sparrow banned you mrwes
[23:29] <mrwes> I know
[23:29] <ikonia> 06/01/2009
[23:29] <ikonia> how do you know - he banned you after you left the channel ?
[23:29] <mrwes> because I didn't ask a 'support' question?
[23:29] <nickrud> this is from the 5th. I see the ban but it's not logged in the tracker, bot must have been down. you will have to wait for jack
[23:30] <ikonia> nickrud: I see the ban on the 6th in BT
[23:30] <ikonia> mrwes: yes, pretty much,
[23:30] <mrwes> (11:17:13 PM) mrwes: Jack_Sparrow: why am I banned?
[23:30] <ikonia> mrwes: oh, you've discussed this with jack already
[23:30] <mrwes> no...but he was involved that day
[23:31] <nickrud> ikonia, i'm only seeing the 11/30 from nick search. but glad to paas to you, one handed typing sucks
[23:31] <ikonia> nickrud: no sweat
[23:31] <mrwes> I wanted to know if previously installed software under gnome would show up in the jwm menus automatically
[23:31] <mrwes> so i asked if anyone was running jwm
[23:31] <ikonia> you didn't ask that though
[23:31] <mrwes> I didn't get a chance!
[23:32] <ikonia> come on - you did
[23:32] <ikonia> I've read the logs
[23:32] <Flannel> nickrud: ask ubottu for the current bans, then apply that to the BT and you'll see all of them
[23:33] <mrwes> well I think it was unjust and would like it removed
[23:33] <ikonia> mrwes: I was just typing that I was happy to remove the ban for you
[23:33] <nickrud> Flannel, i'll ask about that in a while, when the bleeding stops ;;
[23:33] <mrwes> thank you
[23:33] <ikonia> mrwes: however you have had a few nudges in the past to try to stay on topic/be clear with what your asking, so I ask that you really try to focus on that
[23:34] <mrwes> k
[23:34] <ikonia> ban is removed
[23:34] <mrwes> danke sehr
[23:35] <Jack_Sparrow> Im back
[23:35] <Flannel> nickrud: what'd you do?
[23:35] <mrwes> so...can anyone answer my question on jwm menus?
[23:35] <mrwes> re
[23:35] <ikonia> Jack_Sparrow: sorry - didn't see you come back
[23:35] <ikonia> mrwes: your not in #ubuntu
[23:35] <ikonia> mrwes: join #ubuntu to ask support questions
[23:35] <Jack_Sparrow> I was busy with another issue..
[23:35] <mrwes> oh...
[23:36] <nickrud> Flannel, shower door fell broke sprayed glass.
[23:36] <ikonia> Jack_Sparrow: hope I didn't step on your toes there, - I've spoke to this guy before in the past,
[23:37] <Jack_Sparrow> ikonia, our judgement is always trusted.  If something is very serious.  I document it well in bt
[23:38] <Jack_Sparrow> nickrud, Hope you are ok
[23:38] <Jack_Sparrow> Several people were involved on mrwes...
[23:39] <nickrud> jack just a small gouge on one finger; bleeder though. it'll be fine just an annoyance
[23:39] <ikonia> Jack_Sparrow: cool - I thought as much
[23:40] <Flannel> Also, it'd be nice if non-JS people could view BT logs.
[23:40] <Flannel> I'll ping j...01 about it later, after I get home and verify there isnt some way to do it currently
[23:41] <ikonia> Flannel: I didn't think you needed js
[23:41] <Flannel> ikonia: To view the ban logs you do.  The view/whatever things are js
[23:42] <ikonia> ooh really
[23:42] <Flannel> there may be other ways, I can't dig through the source at the moment
[23:42] <ikonia> I didn't know
[23:42] <ikonia> ahh
[23:42] <ikonia> I see what you mean
[23:42] <Flannel> Yeah, thats how you keep the same search with the various viewings (without refreshing)
[23:43] <Flannel> I don't know if its ajax, or just a display none/block sort of thing.


[21:31] <guidopallemans> Is there a way to use tabs with a repeater? this code does not work: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5690611/


[02:00] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: now is the time for sure
[02:33] <tsimonq2> Eickmeyer: I'm online, but sporatically these days.
[02:33] <Eickmeyer> tsimonq2: Gotcha.
[02:33] <tsimonq2> teward: Good luck predicting my schedyle.
[21:35] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: some comments about the 20.10 iso. No browser in favourites? Dual screens does not use twp different backdrops. Konsole seems to have added keyboard shortcuts since 20.04 (Alt+1 to Alt+9) very anoying as applications inside the terminal already use them :P
[21:36] <OvenWerks> what else, oh yeah, it is not obvous which window has focus. It may be that the theme you wish to use is not here yet
[21:37] <OvenWerks> I would drop the ebook reader and thunderbird from favourites before the browser :)
[21:38] <OvenWerks> controls does not run
[21:38] <OvenWerks> Ah there we are
[21:40] <OvenWerks> it seems that favourites has ubuntustudio-controls which will not run but in Audio Production I find Studio-controls (way at the bottom) and that dose run... but tells me I need to fix real time permitions.
[21:42] <OvenWerks> I think what is happening with that last is that our metas are installed after first login. So another logout in is required
[21:47] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: after reboot... most of the trouble seems to have gone away. favourites looks better, ubuntustudio-controls icon is gone
[21:47] <OvenWerks> real time is ok.
[21:50] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: So I am guessing that the installer change you want to do will fix the install?
[21:51] <OvenWerks> That would be nice
[22:09] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: generally it looks pretty good. There are way too many things hard coded in KDE
[22:11] <OvenWerks>  I notice that even though you have the US screen while plasma is starting up, the settings manager shows as if it was the default Kubuntu screen... I guess if .config does not have a change in it, settings assumes their default.
[22:11] <OvenWerks> Not branding friendly
[22:13] <OvenWerks> I am guessing it will require a /etc/xdg/ubuntustudio/ sub menu to make things right? Or do we clone/revise some kubuntu packages?
[22:20] <OvenWerks> hmm s/menu/directory/
[23:03] <teward> Eickmeyer: FTBFS is not good :)
[23:22] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Uh.... it's not done yet.
[23:22] <Eickmeyer> As far as favorties go, it's some sort of bug that happens sporadically with calibre taking-over .html. There's a race condition.
[23:23] <Eickmeyer> And anything that is Kubuntu is definitely the installer, like I've been saying.
[23:23] <Eickmeyer> Once we move to Calamares, that will go away.
[23:27] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: What do you mean the settings manager shows as if it was the default Kubuntu screen?
[23:27] <Eickmeyer> I don't understand.
[23:28] <OvenWerks> while plasma is starting up it has a "splash screen". This splash screen has a ubuntustudio logo. So far so good.
[23:29] <Eickmeyer> Yes. I made that myself.
[23:30] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Are you getting Kubuntu and KDE phrasing mixed-up?
[23:31] <OvenWerks> now if I go into the setting app startup and shutdown->splash screen, it shows "Breeze" as being the current splash screen in use. My asumption is that this is because if I haven't asked for a new choice, settings thinks it must be default and shows it as default
[23:31] <OvenWerks> (what it thinks is default)
[23:32] <Eickmeyer> Yes, the settings are hardcoded to think "Breeze" if there's nothing in .config.
[23:32] <OvenWerks> I picked that one to make a point, but it seems to me there were other cases of similar things.
[23:32] <Eickmeyer> But, you'll notice, that if you log out, the screen is the Ubuntu Studio screen.
[23:32] <OvenWerks> yes, it is just the settings app that is wrong
[23:33] <Eickmeyer> Yes. Nothing we can do about that.
[23:33] <Eickmeyer> And I don't know why the ebook reader is taking the spot of the browser. I might just change the default to firefox.desktop.
[23:34] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I think that was the installer
[23:34] <Eickmeyer> No, it's not the installer.
[23:34] <OvenWerks> It looked like the first time I logged in all the US metas got installed and after I logged out and back in again firefox was there
[23:35] <OvenWerks> (and the ebook reader and ubuntustudio-controls were gone)
[23:35] <Eickmeyer> Live session != installer
[23:35] <Eickmeyer> It's a race condition happening in the live session.
[23:36] <OvenWerks> I am talking about the installed version, after first boot
[23:36] <OvenWerks>  and then it is different after second boot
[23:36] <Eickmeyer> Ok, yeah, that makes sense. I'm looking at the live session and it shows the E-book Editor as the browser.
[23:36] <OvenWerks> After first boot the installer comes up and says there are a pile of installs to do
[23:37] <OvenWerks> after those are finished and I reboot things are fine.
[23:37] <Eickmeyer> Here's the file that determines the default favorites: https://git.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio-default-settings/tree/etc/xdg/kickoffrc
[23:37] <OvenWerks> Live is a different matter :)
[23:38] <Eickmeyer> Also, I did a test install and didn't encounter the Studio Controls problem.
[23:38] <Eickmeyer> It shows by default in the live session and should also show after installation.l
[23:40] <OvenWerks> I think once the installer is fixed things will be good
[23:41] <OvenWerks> live may take a bit, but really you have just started and form that POV things are quite good. It is workable.
[23:41] <Eickmeyer> That's really the only thing that is left. The installer (ubiquity-kde) is hardcoded to replace Ubuntu with Kubuntu and only display Kubuntu and its logo for installation. Hence, moving to Calamares because the Ubuntu Foundations Team has complete control over that and they move slower than molassees.
[23:41] <OvenWerks> (On Mars)
[23:42] <Eickmeyer> Rather, foundations has control over Ubiquity, whereas Lubuntu wants Calamares to be all-inclusive.
[23:42] <Eickmeyer> Indeed, on mars.
[23:42] <Eickmeyer> I can honestly say that they would look at it, but probably wouldn't have it fixed until after Beta. I'm tired of having to go through them every time I make a change to the slideshow too.
[23:44] <OvenWerks> ubuntu server and desktop are the first priority
[23:44] <Eickmeyer> Not even Desktop. Server, cloud, and IoT.
[23:44] <OvenWerks> Whatever makes money
[23:45] <OvenWerks> The installer should be like all other SW, highly configurable
[23:45] <Eickmeyer> Exactly. That's what Calamares is, which is why we're changing.
[23:46] <Eickmeyer> calamares.io in case you're wondering.
[23:46] <OvenWerks> How far away is that do you think?
[23:47] <Eickmeyer> Well, I'm pretty much done, it just needs testing. In order for that to happen, I need the Lubuntu team to upload the new calamares-settings-ubuntu package, which I'm an official contributor to now.
[23:47] <Eickmeyer> I might see if it can be added to the packageset, which I don't think would be too much of an issue.
[23:49] <Eickmeyer> Settings are mirrored at https://github.com/lubuntu-team/calamares-settings-ubuntu if you want to see them.
[23:53] <OvenWerks> So the best way to experience it at this point would be to DL lubuntu?
[23:54] <Eickmeyer> At this point, yes.
[23:54] <Eickmeyer> It would just be the Lubuntu branding, but I've tested the Ubuntu Studio branding on it with the settings I've made and I'm happy with it.
[23:54] <Eickmeyer> That said, I will need to update the screenshots in the slideshow.
[23:55] <OvenWerks> At least we can start now and not September
[23:55] <Eickmeyer> Exactly.


[01:55] <kgunn> duflu: wrt "keeping mir working with trusty"... at first, i felt like "yes we should"...but the more i thot about it, there will always be a mir version in trusty, and people can get that code....
[01:56] <kgunn> granted choosing that route, we would feature starve those on trusty...but this is how most projects in my experience work
[01:56] <kgunn> if you want new features, move fwd
[01:56] <duflu> kgunn: I actually meant keep the HEAD buildable with trusty. But RAOF's libinput plans might make that impossible in the end
[01:56] <RAOF> Not really.
[01:56] <kgunn> duflu: yeah, i guess i am thinking....its "not that bad"
[01:56] <duflu> which is fine... there's a lot in flux
[01:56] <RAOF> Although you won't be able to build the libinput driver on trusty, of course :)
[01:57] <duflu> I mean if you want people to get involved in your project it has to be usable on a stable platform. That's obviously the LTS
[01:57] <duflu> But maybe we can't quite guarantee that this cycle
[01:58] <duflu> Getting input improved is more important that retaining trusty support, IMHO
[01:58] <kgunn> i think that's too strong a statement...if people want to get involved, they're welcome to be on the latest with us
[01:59] <kgunn> granted, this might be inconvenient for some...
[01:59] <kgunn> and it would be nice to do so of course
[01:59] <duflu> You're asking the typical user to replace what is possibly their only PC with a pre-release OS. I don't think that's ideal but it's nothing new either
[02:00] <kgunn> mir dev....typical user ? :)
[02:01] <duflu> Then again, we may have build-from-source instructions to keep trusty going
[02:01] <duflu> I'm sure libinput is buildable
[02:03] <kgunn> duflu: last one before i disappear...i can tag at will for 0.1.9 right ?
[02:03] <kgunn> btw, landing is at a stand still...no such thing as "U" yet
[02:03] <kgunn> :)
[02:03] <duflu> kgunn: I highly recommend against it. The regressions are now visible and have fixes on the way
[02:03] <kgunn> duflu: ok, no problem...
[02:04] <duflu> On the plus side, 0.1.8 was tagged at a perfect time and has no regressions :)
[02:05] <kgunn> com' on...we planned it :P
[02:05] <kgunn> duflu: hey, besides this one...
[02:05] <kgunn> https://bugs.launchpad.net/mir/+bug/1308941
[02:05] <kgunn> what else are you thinking is a must fix regression ? ( i reviewed the bugs..but nothing jumped out)
[02:05] <duflu> kgunn: Nope. 0.1.8 predates the regression :)
[02:06] <duflu> They're all bug-never-released, which is good
[02:07] <duflu> kgunn: Mostly bug 1308843, but there's a list in https://launchpad.net/mir/+milestone/0.1.9
[02:08] <kgunn> duflu: nice!..thanks for the hygiene, easy to see
[02:12] <kgunn> ok...night guys...
[02:12] <kgunn> duflu: i'll keep an eye on those bugs and won't tag until then...
[02:14] <racarr__> RAOF: So how do I stop x from opening the real input devices
[02:14] <racarr__> either I already did and the keyboard is working perfectly
[02:14] <racarr__> or I didnt (seems pretty likely)
[02:15] <racarr__> and my events are dissapearing into QueueKeyboardEvent because of some strange device configuration error (totally plausible)
[02:47] <RAOF> racarr__: I'd do it by removing xf86-input-evdev and xf86-input-synaptics from the search paths of your fancy new Xserver.
[02:48] <RAOF> racarr__: That'll do it for sure; we should, however, patch out the input detection logic in the XMir case.
[02:48] <RAOF> But we don't yet.
[07:46] <mlankhorst> ooh fancyyy
[07:48] <duflu> ?
[07:51] <mlankhorst> inputless xserver :)
[07:56] <duflu> Oh that
[07:56] <duflu> I hate it when Europe wakes up
[07:56] <duflu> Oh, hi Europe!
[07:56] <duflu> :)
[07:57] <mlankhorst> I don't think canonical would approve of me sleeping all day :P
[07:57] <mlankhorst> during work time
[07:57] <RAOF> I think they'd be fine with it, as long as you worked all night!
[07:58] <duflu> Bah it's fine. I have a plan to finish at a sane hour tonight
[07:58] <RAOF> Speaking of sane hours, 6pm says EOD!
[07:59]  * duflu waves to RAOF
[07:59] <mlankhorst> lies :P
[08:14] <duflu> alf_: You changed the meaning of conf_output.used to sometimes be false even for a display in use (but off). Is that a good idea/required?
[08:19] <alf_> duflu: where did I do that?
[08:19] <duflu> alf_: r1546... but maybe I got it backwards?
[08:22] <duflu> alf_: Oh, that's not it. The issue is just setting current_mode_index=<invalid> on resume
[08:22] <duflu> That's more straightforward
[08:23] <alf_> duflu: hmm, yeah, so because of the change to not have a DisplayBuffer (and the underlying framebuffer object) for displays that are off, the mode is cleared
[08:25] <alf_> duflu: not sure how to best handle that, we update the configuration information using the information given by the hardware
[08:25] <duflu> alf_: I think it needs to remember the current mode. Because guessing on resume with preferred_mode could easily be wrong
[08:26] <alf_> duflu: What about the case that you power off the screen, then unplug it and plug in a new one? That is, how can we differentiate when to remember and when to not remember?
[08:26] <duflu> alf_: I'm testing with simple pause and resume. How should demo-shell remember the mode between Alt+P's
[08:26] <duflu> ?
[08:27] <duflu> Previously it was just remembered in the display structure
[08:29] <alf_> duflu: the point is that when we request the configuration, we shouldn't make any assumptions about it, because it can change because of events external to mir (like someone pluging things in or out)
[08:30] <duflu> alf_: Yeah I know, but more common is a simple suspend/resume... And it makes no sense to move responsibility for saving just one attribute outside of the structure
[08:31] <duflu> Never mind, I'll either find a way or cook dinner early
[08:31] <alf_> duflu: I would be OK with that as long as it is safe to do so (e.g. the set mir_power_mode_off, unplug screen, plug a new one scenario)
[08:33] <alan_g> alf_: duflu can we just hash some display attributes to detect changes vs on/off?
[08:33] <duflu> alan_g: The field that stores the current_mode is presently invalid. All we need to do is not set it to invalid and keep its old value
[08:34] <duflu> So a dumb shell can set outputs off/on/off/on blindly
[08:35] <alan_g> duflu: I think alf_ is worried that the old value could be wrong if the device changed.
[08:35] <duflu> alan_g: Which is still validated, and better than what we have now (invalid --> crash)
[08:36] <alan_g> ack
[08:39] <alan_g> duflu: any thoughts about this approach: https://code.launchpad.net/~alan-griffiths/mir/spike-shell-namespace/+merge/216332
[08:40] <duflu> alan_g: None at all. I'm involved in too many reviews again so won't get involved
[08:41] <alan_g> duflu: np
[08:44] <alf_> duflu: The same would happen with the new scheme too, if we don't do things properly... an invalid value in the configuration (e.g. mode 4 out of the 3 modes of the new monitor) will cause the same crash. Anyway, it may not be a problem really, because when a screen is unplugged we handle the event internally and update the configurations. So, to be safe we need to serialize all display conf changes (incl. power on/off) with our main loop, so probably an Disp
[08:52] <duflu> alf_: It's actually an easy fix it seems. The off display still has a persistent structure and ID. Only challenge to do a regression test
[14:06] <mterry> Is greyback on vacation?
[14:08] <alan_g> I was wondering that too
[14:10] <ogra_> lying in the sun and turnuing into brownback :)
[14:53] <racarr__> Morning
[14:56] <anpok> maybe for some people :P
[14:56] <racarr__> anpok: Wait are you implying the other things on IRC are also people?!?!
[14:56] <racarr__> seems I owe some apologies
[14:56] <racarr__> :p
[14:56] <anpok> hm yah proving that gets harder every day
[14:57] <racarr__> haha thats what
[14:57] <racarr__> sprints are for
[23:32] <RAOF> Mornin all.
[23:32] <RAOF> racarr__: What up, dude!
[23:35] <racarr__> Morning!
[23:36] <racarr__> Nothing much...just getting back to xmir soon....new scene observer...maybe cursor part 1 can land now then I will rebase the rest.
[23:37] <racarr__> xmir is still where it is yesterday...things getting as far as QueueKeyboardEvents...but as im not unloading the default drivers and
[23:37] <racarr__> not getting duplicate key events I assume its not working lol
[23:38] <racarr__> presumably some field of one of the device configuration structs needs to be set to 9 instead
[23:38] <racarr__> of 7
[23:46] <racarr__> yeah its definitely not working
[23:50] <RAOF> Heh.
[23:51] <RAOF> Are you running your XMir as root?
[23:53] <RAOF> Because if you're not then the other input devices wouldn't actually be getting opened due to permissions.
[23:53] <racarr__> I am so it can write to the log file aha um
[23:54] <racarr__> I tried adding 11 to keycode though
[23:54] <racarr__> and everything is still good
[23:54] <racarr__> so its certainly not my keyboard events
[23:54] <racarr__> going anywhere
[23:54] <racarr__> QueueKeyboardEvents is being called, xf86PostKeyboardEvent, etc...
[23:54] <racarr__> just need to read some code...
[23:57] <RAOF> Heh.
[23:57] <RAOF> --prefix=$HOME/.local. It's the way of the future!
[23:58] <racarr__> o maybe
[23:58] <racarr__> I actually built debs this time lol