[03:04] <roasted> hi friends. just curious about something. I spun up 17.10 on an old laptop with a 2nd gen i5. When I log in to wayland, it flips over to xorg. Is this intended behavior at the moment?
[05:14] <lotuspsychje> welcome
[05:15] <tsquar3d> Hey all -- I'm getting a login cycle when trying to boot into the new desktop environment...
[05:15] <lotuspsychje> tsimonq2: its recommended to help testing on a fresh iso daily install
[05:15] <lotuspsychje> tsquar3d: not upgrade yet
[05:16] <lotuspsychje> tsquar3d: from wich version did you upgrade test?
[05:16] <tsquar3d> Right... I am just wondering if this is a common issue as of right now.
[05:17] <tsquar3d> lotuspsychje: The current one in apt-get dist-upgrade -d
[05:17] <lotuspsychje> tsquar3d: you was on 16.04?
[05:19] <tsquar3d> Yep
[05:21] <Bashing-om> tsquar3d: https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2370233 .
[05:22] <lotuspsychje_> tsquar3d: i tested fresh installs, all went good here
[10:37] <deepesh> Hello
[10:37] <deepesh> I accidentally started the download of 17.10 and cancelled in between
[10:38] <deepesh> but my sudo apt-get upgrade shows still shows to upgrade something
[10:41] <ducasse> deepesh: try to edit your sources.list back to zesty and see if that is all that is needed. if not you might have a problem.
[10:46] <deepesh> can you please explain in detail @ducasse
[10:48] <ducasse> edit /etc/apt/sources.list, replace all occurrences of 'artful' with 'zesty'
[11:46] <jtaylor> that won't really help, you cannot easily downgrade a half upgraded distro
[11:46] <jtaylor> best option is to fully upgrade or reinstall
[11:47] <ducasse> if it was aborted during downloading as he says it might work, if the only change made has been to sources.list
[12:12] <luc4> Hello! Anyone who had the chance to test the new wayland session on nvidia quadro by any chance?
[14:33] <AureliusO> Hey all, since updating yesterday I have been unable to change any display settings via the Displays tool.  I did not see something posted for a bug yet and was wondering if anyone had experienced anything similar.
[14:49] <AureliusO> Please disregard, I was able to locate a bug report.
[14:49] <AureliusO>  /w 2


[13:10] <rick_h_> bah, sorry the tablet spammed the channel
[13:15] <snap-l> It did?
[13:16] <rick_h_> heh, looks like disconnect/reconnect spam
[13:16] <snap-l> Oh, I have that on ignore
[13:16] <rick_h_> yea, then nvm :P
[13:16] <rick_h_> TGIF everyone!
[13:16] <snap-l> And not too soon
[13:19] <snap-l> Did we sort out what the new hotness was for readers?
[13:19] <snap-l> JoDee is not terribly happy with oldreader
[13:19] <rick_h_> no, I'm sticking with google reader until June and then I'll reevaluate
[13:19] <rick_h_> *hopefully* there will be some marked improvement over the next two months to rejudge by
[13:23] <snap-l> Yeah, I'm sticking with r2e for now
[13:24] <snap-l> (rss2email)
[13:24] <snap-l> but it's suboptimal
[13:25] <snap-l> http://tapastic.com/episode/2828
[14:05] <snap-l> Also, IE needs to find a fire, stat
[14:05] <snap-l> and promptly perish in it
[14:06] <jcastro> man
[14:06] <jcastro> I think it's getting _colder_
[14:06] <jrwren> i know!
[14:06] <jrwren> so cold yesterday.
[14:08] <rick_h_> I like the cold and all, but I'm done with 20s. From now on it needs to be 35 or higher full time.
[14:08] <rick_h_> not like I'm asking for a ton
[14:10] <jrwren> i like near average temperatures, year round. too much deviation angers me.
[14:31] <jrwren> this is awesome: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRbY3TMUcgQ
[14:44] <rick_h_> brousch: get your wallet out http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/andrewgodwin/schema-migrations-for-django
[14:44] <brousch> I haven't had trouble with south, but I haven't used it much
[14:45] <brousch> My setup is very simple
[14:51] <snap-l> jrwren: Heh
[15:13] <jrwren> i laughed so hard.
[15:14] <brousch> Anyone else notice a really slow pypi?
[15:16] <rick_h_> nope, I use a local one :P
[15:17] <rick_h_> doh he left
[15:19] <jrwren> how do you mirror pypi?
[15:20] <rick_h_> https://pypi.python.org/pypi/pep381client
[15:20] <jrwren> ty
[15:32] <snap-l> I don't know why we don't treat IE like the pariah of the internet that it is
[15:33] <rick_h_> yay! 4.2.2 on my phone
[15:33] <jrwren> IE9 and 10 are good.
[15:34] <rick_h_> I guess it's better than non-nexus but not sure I'll be getting a verizon nexus again
[15:34] <jrwren> from what I hear, wtf do I know, I don't use them.
[15:34] <snap-l> Ie 8 is rendering something like crap
[15:34] <rick_h_> 9 no...10...maybe but dev tools still suck
[15:34] <rick_h_> we're working with the juju-gui on IE10 and I still say it sucks/hate it. but at least we can get it to work
[15:35] <jrwren> i heard there are some recent patches in openstack web ui that are IE only.
[15:35] <rick_h_> yea, still have to work around IE even with 10
[15:39] <jrwren> bummer.
[15:40] <jrwren> i'm so glad I don't target teh web :)
[15:47] <snap-l> Figured out IE's quirk mode vs strict mode
[15:47] <snap-l> (yes, I'm new here)
[15:48] <snap-l> Also listening to Joe Startiani's Surfing With the Alien
[15:48] <snap-l> still holds up
[15:48] <jjesse> still a big fan of Joe Satriani
[15:49] <snap-l> Yeah, he puts out the epitome of the guitar-god albums
[15:49] <snap-l> Vai puts out great solo albums as well
[15:50] <snap-l> Funny enough, I don't have the really popular one of Vai's "Passion and Warfare"
[15:51] <snap-l> likely because I don't like that much vocals in my instrumental albums. :)
[15:51] <snap-l> Ah, also Sex and Religion
[15:51] <snap-l> I had that one for a while, It hink I sold it back
[15:51] <snap-l> or it's lost
[16:06] <snap-l> http://photobombingjesus.com/
[16:12] <greg-g> snap-l: unsatisfied, too few submissions
[16:12] <greg-g> C-
[16:18] <snap-l> heh
[16:44] <snap-l> rick_h_: New CAH expansion
[16:44] <snap-l> ordering two
[16:44] <rick_h_droid> already ordered
[16:44] <rick_h_droid> :)
[16:44] <snap-l> Ah, OK
[16:44] <snap-l> ordered one then
[16:46] <greg-g> you all are crazy
[16:46] <snap-l> greg-g: Yes
[16:46] <snap-l> and?
[16:46] <greg-g> that's it
[16:47] <snap-l> http://boardgamegeek.com/user/craigm
[17:00] <greg-g> don't even have to open the URL
[17:00] <greg-g> :)
[17:50] <jjesse> what is CAH?
[17:51] <snap-l> Cards Against Humanity


[00:39] <jelmer> cjwatson: does launchpad currently rely on the Python 2 version of Breezy, or are there any plans to rely on the Python 2 version?
[00:48] <cjwatson> jelmer: codehosting (though not codeimport) in master currently relies on the Python 2 version of breezy
[00:49] <cjwatson> jelmer: If possible it would be helpful if the issues blocking codeimport were fixed before breezy dropped Python 2 support, so that we have an overlap period; though another possibility is to split out codeimport
[00:50] <cjwatson> jelmer: I'm expecting to deploy the codehosting/breezy work to production tomorrow
[01:04] <jelmer> cjwatson: ack, thanks
[01:04] <jelmer> cjwatson: FWIW we're not in a hurry, just trying to figure out what constraints we have
[01:07] <cjwatson> jelmer: We've made some pretty substantial progress on dependencies in the last few months, but there's still a lot of code to port and a few complicated remaining dependencies (notably lazr.authentication/lazr.restful is going to need some fiddling)
[13:09] <sil2100> Hello! I have a small MP I'd like someone from the LP-team to take a look at, since I'm really bad at naming stuff - this is all needed for some stuff we'd like to have for 18.04.4 images:
[13:09] <sil2100> https://code.launchpad.net/~sil2100/launchpad-buildd/pass_build_id/+merge/377635
[13:13] <cjwatson> sil2100: Yep, saw it, in the middle of a sprint at the moment but it's on my list
[13:14] <cjwatson> I agree it's likely to need to be something other than build_id, but will have a think
[13:14] <cjwatson> sil2100: When is 18.04.4?
[13:14] <cjwatson> Still 2020-02-06 as scheduled?
[13:44] <sil2100> cjwatson: yes ;)
[13:44] <sil2100> cjwatson: thank you!
[13:44] <sil2100> cjwatson: I renamed it to image_build_id for now so that it doesn't conflict with the in-code build_id
[13:45] <sil2100> It'll usually be a timestamp, but I'd also like it to be an arbitrary identifier that someone can push to a build if needed
[13:45] <sil2100> On cdimage it has many names ;p
[13:47] <cjwatson> sil2100: Isn't that already --datestamp?
[13:48] <cjwatson> Passed as NOW?
[14:05] <sil2100> cjwatson: I don't know, I mean, at least it's not passed via cdimage for sure - I don't know what for --datestamp is used, but the build_id that I want to pass is the cdimage build/publish timestamp identifier, and that's not always a strict timestamp
[14:05] <sil2100> Since it can be DATE.1, DATE.2 depending on how many builds a day there were
[14:06] <sil2100> I see that datestamp is pushed as NOW into the environment, so I could be a bit worried that this not being an actual timestamp might cause trouble
[14:07] <sil2100> But yeah, I actually never used NOW
[14:07]  * sil2100 looks at livecd-rootfs code
[14:09] <sil2100> I guess it's only used there to do `echo "BUILDSTAMP=\"$NOW\"" >> config/binary`, so I guess in theory I could use that? I'm just worried as the variable/parameter names can confuse people
[14:10] <sil2100> And BUILDSTAMP is then used for ubuntu-cpc builds to populate /etc/cloud/build.info
[14:11] <sil2100> hm, good to know that, maybe I should poke the CPC guys to know if I can hijack this
[14:11] <cjwatson> DATE.1, DATE.2 is exactly what we already use datestamp for
[14:12] <cjwatson> I think
[14:12] <cjwatson>         args["datestamp"] = build.version
[14:13] <cjwatson> The naming is a mess, but it exists and we shouldn't add another thing that does the same thing
[14:13] <cjwatson> It's true that cdimage doesn't pass it; it's the optional version argument to livefs.requestBuild
[14:14] <cjwatson> When I wrote this I never intended it to be required to be an actual timestamp
[14:14] <sil2100> cjwatson: agreed! Yeah, I guess I missed it since I looked at cdimage first
[14:14] <cjwatson> Name notwithstanding
[14:14] <sil2100> Excellent
[14:14] <cjwatson> (I think some of the naming was live-build's fault, but it's been a while)
[14:14] <sil2100> Thanks for pointing that out!
[14:14] <sil2100> I shall use it in that case ;)
[14:14] <sil2100> Since it's actually perfect, since it means there's less stuff that needs to land
[14:15] <sil2100> In the best case I'll just have to tweak cdimage to pass it, and the rest should just work - since livecd-rootfs already populates /etc/cloud/build.info with it, so that's what we can use!


[03:36] <UncleHo> hello all
[03:37] <UncleHo> i got some question
[03:37] <UncleHo> i want buy some cheap phone and install on him UT
[03:38] <UncleHo> which budget phone got ready Ubuntu rom?
[15:43] <jdstrand> pmcgowan, sil2100: hey, do I still have time to try to land a fix for bug #1534807 ? it is a simple change that only affects apps that use the unconfined template (eg, the terminal)
[15:44] <pmcgowan> jdstrand, freeze is today but that one sounds safe if QA can handle it
[15:45] <taiebot> has gps regressed in mako on rc-proposed can get a fix only if i am on wifi  ?
[15:47] <dobey> jdstrand, pmcgowan: would be awesome to land that today
[15:47] <jdstrand> pmcgowan: I'll prepare it
[15:51] <taiebot> On mako rc-proposed if i switch off wifi, reboot launch unav try to get a fix with gps unav crashes.
[15:52] <pmcgowan> taiebot, ah
[15:52] <pmcgowan> thats an oxide bug fix just landed
[15:53] <taiebot> pmcgowan: \o/  landed today or landed tomorrow :-)
[15:53] <pmcgowan> taiebot, its in, so next image
[15:53] <taiebot> pmcgowan: cool
[16:09] <nik90> pmcgowan, So for sure Dekko, uNav and Calendar-app are installed by default for OTA-10? Or will they be re-evaluated next week by management?
[16:13] <pmcgowan> nik90, they are in as of a coule days ago
[16:14] <nik90> pmcgowan, ack. I did notice them, but assumed they were being tested and evaluated with the daily rc-proposed images.
[16:15] <pmcgowan> nik90, we felt like the critical issues were previously address, particularly the calendar app got a bunch of updates this month
[16:22] <taiebot> pmcgowan nik90: from my feedback dekko crashes a lot I think it's due to my yahoo account
[16:23] <pmcgowan> taiebot, got a bug #? backtrace maybe?
[16:25] <taiebot> pmcgowan never reported
[16:25] <nik90> taiebot, I would bring it up to DanChapman. Dekko has a dedicated telegram group where Dan hangs out regularly. You can find the telegram group link on dekko's launchpad page.
[16:26] <nik90> or just pinging DanChapman would help as well I suppose
[16:26] <tiktik> why i cant install ubuntu touch on my android phone...
[16:26] <mimecar> tiktik, not all the devices have drivers
[16:27] <mimecar> what is your device?
[16:27] <ogra_> tiktik, what makes you think you cant ?
[16:27] <tiktik> meizu m2 note...
[16:27] <ogra_> there are ports to many devices, if you have all the source fro your android you can probably also do a port
[16:28] <tiktik> one more qts...
[16:28] <tiktik> ads reboot bootloader....
[16:29] <tiktik> after doing this it doesnt indicate green robot of android.. why...
[16:29] <ogra_> because meizu locked down the bootloader for your device ?
[16:29] <ogra_> (forget about porting then, if oyu have no open bootloader there is no way to do a community port)
[16:29] <happycamper> hi everyone o/
[16:30] <tiktik> after then also it fails ...sudo oem fastboot
[16:30] <tiktik> why...
[16:30] <ogra_> right, meizu has locked down that device
[16:30] <tiktik> its failing...
[16:30] <ogra_> no way to install another OS on it then
[16:30] <taiebot> mm how to add a group on the telegram app?
[16:30] <happycamper> maybe a stupid question: can i uninstall apps & scoops without enableing developer mode?(on ubuntu touch)
[16:31] <nik90> taiebot, I think you need to do it once using the desktop client.
[16:31] <ogra_> happycamper, might work via the terminal app
[16:31] <mimecar> happycamper, you can uninstall apps by pressing several seconds on the app
[16:31] <taiebot> nik90: ok thanks
[16:31] <pmcgowan> long press on the app and it allows uninstall unless its "special" happycamper
[16:32] <happycamper> ty for the help, i'll check that out
[16:39] <dobey> happycamper: or just go to the store scope, and find the app or scope you wish to remove, and uninstall from there
[16:41] <dobey> happycamper: however, some things can't be removed, and some default installed apps which you can "uninstall" won't really free up any disk space, because they are in read-only storage, so they will only be unregistred and not show up in your apps or scopes list
[16:41] <happycamper> yeah i got it now :D well i'm new to this
[16:41] <happycamper> oh ok good to know dobey
[16:49] <happycamper> ty again for the help every1
[18:10] <jdstrand> dobey: fyi, fix for bug #1534807 is in silo 046 (ticket 1190)
[18:11] <jdstrand> verified locally. just waiting on the ci-train for my opportunity to signoff
[18:12] <dobey> awesome
[18:13] <taiebot> Will there be easter eggs in the next release of UT :-D
[18:15] <dobey> sure
[18:16] <dobey> all those bugs will no longer be there. we have all new ones to replace them :)
[18:17] <taiebot> dobey: Lol they might not even be hard to find
[18:21] <dobey> mariogrip: around?
[18:51] <mr_Henk> Any advice on installing Touch on a Nexus 7 deb from --server=http://system-image.tasemnice.eu ?  I get to "2016/03/25 19:43:40 Rebooting into recovery to flash" which end in the N7 displaying "This phone needs restoring from a PC or a service center." right after that. If I boot it nor,ally there is a CM 13 installed if that matters.
[20:02] <MaxEd> I have some questions regarding chroots, CMake and Ubuntu IDE interagration. Is this the right place to ask them, or should I go elsewhere?
[20:08] <dobey> #ubuntu-app-devel is probably the better place
[20:13] <MaxEd> OK, thanks.
[22:04] <Haydn456> So, I'm on Ubuntu Touch and I've installed java, and I want to run a .jar file. But I can't, I get the error "No X11 DISPLAY variable was set, but this program performed an operation which requires it.". I understand this is because utouch uses Mir instead of X, but X apps are supposed to work in utouch... How do I do it, with a java program?
[22:19] <Haydn456> Hello?
[22:32] <Haydn456> anyone?
[22:40] <Haydn456> help?


[08:51] <PaulW2U> unless anyone finds anything else to include - all summaries done
[15:18] <imnichol> \o/
[17:40] <pleia2> nice work
[20:25] <ahoneybun> pleia2: I just wrote to my mailing list in my area LoCo about my Ubuntu Hour (2 months late) lol
[20:26] <pleia2> haha, better late than never I suppose :)
[20:27] <pleia2> Unit193: link check? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue434
[20:28] <pleia2> sending this off to editors now, give them more time and I think we're pretty much done anyway
[20:30] <ahoneybun> pleia2: may I add it?
[20:31] <ahoneybun> I also need to update the Hour wiki page in a min
[20:31] <Unit193> http://insights.ubuntu.com/2015/09/08/managing-my-personal-server-using-juju/ - http://blog.didrocks.fr/post/Ubuntu-Make-15.09.2-enables-you-to-install-Android-SDK-only DOA.
[20:31] <Unit193> thevarguy.com seemed like it had cert issues, but browser is fine.
[20:36] <pleia2> boo
[20:36] <pleia2> jose: can you take a look at those and adjust accordingly?
[20:37] <pleia2> I need to head out
[20:56] <jose> pleia2: sure, will do
[21:36] <PaulW2U> jose: I've fixed Ubuntu Make URL which strangely ends with a dot ???
[21:37] <PaulW2U> I think Juju article has been deleted
[21:37] <jose> ubuntu make url?
[21:37] <jose> Juju, I'll ask jorge
[21:38] <PaulW2U> Ubuntu make - 2nd URL Unit193 found a problem with
[21:38] <Unit193> Feel free to re-poke before publish.
[21:42] <jose> ah
[23:44] <jose> the insights link: the original blog post was from 25/08, so I'm just gonna remove it


[03:27] <duflu> robert_ancell: Did you notice I had a go at the strings-on-the-protocol issue? https://code.launchpad.net/~vanvugt/mir/method-index/+merge/159782
[03:27] <robert_ancell> duflu, yeah, I've got a branch where I converted it to an enum
[03:27] <robert_ancell> duflu, the RPC code is yuck though and we could probably get away without it
[03:28] <duflu> robert_ancell: Yeah I think we would need to avoid strings... if we were to go to a more efficient transport in future. But not yet
[03:29] <robert_ancell> I am so sick of seeing "Internal compiler error: Error reporting routines re-entered.
[03:29] <robert_ancell> "
[03:29]  * duflu has never seen it
[03:43]  * RAOF wonders if he should try defaulting to gcc 4.8, which doesn't suffer that.
[03:46] <robert_ancell> RAOF, yes, we should if 4.8 is available and not broken
[03:46] <RAOF> 4.8 is available in raring, will be default in S, and isn't broken (in that way ☺)
[03:48] <robert_ancell> RAOF, are you sure it is in raring - it's not showing for me
[03:49] <RAOF> It's packaged as gcc-snapshot
[03:49] <robert_ancell> hmm, that doesn't sound like something we should depend on. We can shift when we go to S I guess
[03:50] <robert_ancell> RAOF, btw, is XMir working? I tried it on Friday and was getting the "no screens" error
[03:50] <RAOF> I wasn't suggesting that we default to it in the build, but locally you could easily install and use it, and not get stupid ICEs.
[03:51] <RAOF> XMir worked last time I tried.
[03:51] <RAOF> Oh, no it didn't; I need to fold in a new package. You probably don't have an xmir server installed.
[03:51] <robert_ancell> RAOF, I did downgrade to the latest XMir package but it wasn't connecting
[03:52] <RAOF> Hm. *That* did work on my machine. Let me check...
[05:36] <RAOF> Bah! I wish launchpad was updated to something more recent than Hardy.
[05:38] <RAOF> Then I could use a bzr builder recipe version 0.4, which means I could use {debver:packaging} in the version, which means I wouldn't have to change the recipe each time someone uploads xserver-xorg-video-intel to Ubuntu!
[15:05] <kdub> good morning, status, friday worked on hwc1.0 for galaxy nexus, will continue with that today. going pretty well
[15:12] <kgunn> kdub: mornin'
[15:14] <alan_g> Good morning
[15:23] <alf_> status: some performance investigations, but mostly getting laptop ready for sprint
[15:29] <alan_g> status: having a look through our generated documentation (and learning a bit more about doxygen)
[15:30] <alan_g> BTW does anyone know how frequently http://unity.ubuntu.com/mir/index.html is updated? It seems to be some days behind the trunk.
[15:34] <racarr_> Morning
[15:34] <racarr_> Working on touch/pointer input
[15:37] <racarr> alf_: I am workingon a software cursor and need some APIs to
[15:37] <racarr> damage the compositor
[15:38] <racarr> seperate through the renderables
[15:38] <racarr> to trigger rendering
[15:38] <racarr> any ideas?
[15:39] <alan_g> racarr: I think alf_ was the last one to rework that area.
[15:42] <alf_> racarr: alan_g: so basically two options: 1. Pass an object to the compositor and register a notification internally (like we do for renderables currently) 2. Expose e.g. Compositor::damage() and call it when the cursor moves (that is make the cursor depend on the compositor)
[15:42] <racarr> Compositor::damage seems more appropriate for me because in this case
[15:42] <racarr> the shell is rendering the software cursor
[15:42] <racarr> via overriding the compositing strategy
[15:44] <racarr> Fixed gmock warnings on reflow-input-focus-selection
[15:45] <racarr> alan_g: So the crash in demo shell
[15:46] <racarr> is the shared_ptr to the Eventfilter which is returned via initializer_list from the server configuration
[15:46] <racarr> is released in the process of being passed from DefaultServerConfiguration to InputConfiguration
[15:46] <racarr> I can't understand it to the point where I think it might be a G++ bug
[15:46] <racarr> :/
[15:47] <alan_g> racarr: That sounds wrong. Give me 10 and I'll have a look.
[15:47] <racarr> thanks :)
[15:51] <racarr> I think it's actually lost in the constructor of eventfilter chain (when passingfrom DefaultInputConfiguration to EventFilterChain)
[15:51] <racarr> but either way it makes no sense :(
[15:55] <kdub> alan_g, maybe thomi would know about how often the doc site is updated, i'll ask when he signs on later
[16:06] <alan_g> racarr: you're saying the shared_ptr to the initializer list is OK, but the one *in* the initializer list gets reset?
[16:09] <racarr> alan_g: Err there is a shared_ptr to the initializer list?
[16:09] <racarr> isn't it passed by value
[16:10] <racarr> what I mean is, the_input_configuration calls the_event_filters and in gdb you can observe the_event_filters returns an initializer list
[16:10] <racarr> with a shared_ptr as it's first member
[16:10] <racarr> and m_ptr as non zer0
[16:10] <alan_g> racarr: sorry, misreading the code
[16:10] <racarr> then it gets passed to the input configuration constructor
[16:10] <racarr> and it also non zero
[16:10] <racarr> when it's passed to the EventFilterChain constructor
[16:10] <racarr> the initializer list is empty
[16:10] <racarr> and the EventFilterChain later attempts to call a method on the event filter (0x0)
[16:10] <racarr> well, it's not empty
[16:11] <racarr> it contains one member, a shared_ptr with m_ptr = 0
[16:16] <racarr> alan_g: Just pushed a revision (604) which you can see fixes it by moving ownership to main
[16:16] <racarr> but why?
[16:22] <alan_g> racarr: It still doesn't make sense
[16:28] <racarr> alan_g: I think it has to be a GCC bug :/ I du nno
[16:28] <racarr> I went through with valgrind etc...
[16:28] <alan_g> racarr: the initializer list captures by reference, but and the reference is to a temporary std::shared_ptr<mi::EventFilter> created in the function call. Because app_switcher is a std::shared_ptr<me::ApplicationSwitcher> and needs conversion to std::shared_ptr<mi::EventFilter>.
[16:29] <racarr> but the initializer list
[16:29] <racarr> should own that reference
[16:29] <racarr> until it passes it to the vector of std::shared_ptr<EventFilter in EventFilterChain right?
[16:31] <alan_g> racarr: temporaries don't exist after you leave the enclosing scope
[16:31] <alan_g> I.e. return from the_event_filters()
[16:32] <racarr> alan_g: Then why doesn't it work if I make
[16:32] <racarr> the_event_filters a const member of DemoServerConfiguration
[16:32] <racarr> err
[16:32] <racarr> make std::initializer_list event_filters
[16:32] <racarr> a const member
[16:32] <racarr> and initialize it at construction time
[16:33] <alan_g> Because, when you exit the constructor the temporary it references goes out of scope
[16:33] <racarr> (not as in r604 where the list is created in main)
[16:33] <racarr> Hmm
[16:34] <alan_g> If you had a  std::shared_ptr<EventFilter> member you could pass a reference to that around in the initializer list
[16:34] <racarr> that's what I was just going to say
[16:34] <racarr> do you think its better to keep it like r604
[16:34] <racarr> or to keep the app_switcher in the config like it was in 603 and just use
[16:34] <racarr> shared_ptr EventFilter
[16:35] <alan_g> Using initializer lists like this might be a bad idea. ;)  (I don't have the experience of them to be sure yet)
[16:36] <racarr> that's what I was wondering...
[16:36] <racarr> so I just tried
[16:36] <racarr> constructing the app_switcher from main
[16:37] <racarr> passing itto the demo server configuration (as mi::EventFilter
[16:37] <racarr> saving it as a shared_ptr on the demo server configuratino and returning { event_filter }
[16:37] <racarr> same problem
[16:39] <racarr> I think r604 is the way to go :p
[16:41] <alan_g> saving it as a shared_ptr on the demo server configuration ought to work - you didn't save a reference by mistake did you?
[16:42] <racarr> no, const value
[17:39] <bschaefer> Right now for KeyEvents I don't see a define/const saying if the key event is pressed or released for the event...besides checking if the event.action is true/false, have I missed something?
[17:39] <bschaefer> err, event.action 1 or 0
[17:42] <bschaefer> all I see is: test/mir_test/event_factory.h:29:enum class EventAction
[17:42] <bschaefer> which isn't exposed to the C apis :(
[17:54] <racarr> bschaefer: For now you can see them in
[17:55] <racarr>  3rd_party/android-input/android_pristine/frameworks/native/include/android/input.h
[17:55] <racarr> AKEY_EVENT_ACTION
[17:55] <racarr> will try and get them added to a header in trunk
[17:55] <racarr> I tried once but people argued about if they were needed yet until I gave up :p
[17:55] <bschaefer> racarr, cool, yeah I had to print them out to figure out what was down/up so I can hold up and actually using a name fo ir
[17:56] <racarr> :)
[17:56] <bschaefer> racarr, yeah, well the action is an int32_t which...you can't do a nice enum with that :(
[17:56] <bschaefer> racarr, thanks! Also one more question while you're around :)
[17:57] <racarr> Sure
[17:57] <bschaefer> racarr, soo for the cursor, how is mir going to be handling the 'themeing' of the cursor?
[17:58] <bschaefer> or will that be left up to the client I suppose
[17:59] <racarr> I don't entirely know ;)
[17:59] <racarr> I guess the shell will eb responsible for the general themeing of the cursor
[17:59] <racarr> but there are times where the clients need to request stuff, etc. or i.e. needs to change from cursor to text cursor...
[17:59] <racarr> ill get back to you :p thanks for bringing that up
[17:59] <bschaefer> yeah, I was just digging through what Ill have to do for the mouse, and saw that SDL was making the own theme based on the video :)
[18:00] <racarr> bschaefer: I have a branch with a software cursor in mir but it's not uite ready to propose
[18:00] <bschaefer> yeah, X11 does it a bit different where you just request the cursor? (I think) and wayland was doing it a bit differently
[18:00] <racarr> and you need this branch to
[18:00] <racarr> https://code.launchpad.net/~robertcarr/mir/enable-pointer-touch-input/+merge/160153
[18:00] <bschaefer> racarr, sweet, I can give it run!
[18:00] <racarr> receive motion events/pointer events
[18:01] <bschaefer> nice, I should able to mock a cursor for now and get events working :)
[18:01] <bschaefer> racarr, thanks!
[18:01] <racarr> Cool! Let me know if it works :)
[18:01] <bschaefer> racarr, will do! So far key events work well :)
[18:01] <racarr> hurrah
[18:01] <bschaefer> using scan codes from the events there was already a mapping of the xfree86_scancode_table2
[18:02] <bschaefer> which was nice
[18:02] <racarr> Hmm
[18:02] <racarr> but then how are you getting things like
[18:02] <racarr> $
[18:02] <racarr> as shift + 4
[18:02] <racarr> or does SDL do its own mapping
[18:03] <bschaefer> SDL has its own mapping, but yeah I want to write some tests where it'll make sure all are working
[18:03]  * bschaefer checks mod events
[18:06] <bschaefer> racarr, you're right, not working :)
[18:07] <racarr> I don't know how SDL expects it to work but my guess would be you need the keycodes -> SDL keycodes
[18:07] <racarr> unless SDL can listen to shift down or modifiers or whatever itself
[18:07] <racarr> and do the mapping
[18:07] <racarr> but seems best to use the mapping from mir
[18:07] <R__> you guys ported SDL to mir then?
[18:07] <R__> or in the process?
[18:07] <bschaefer> right, I need to use xkb and set the modifier, im thinking something like: xkb_state_update_mask
[18:08] <bschaefer> R__, in the process
[18:08] <R__> I hear SDL 2.0 is getting the final blessing in May
[18:08] <bschaefer> racarr, theres a mapping form Mir already? Or are you talking about the xkb state from Mir?
[18:08] <R__> think you'll get it merged?
[18:08] <bschaefer> R__, that would be nice :), well...lets hope!
[18:10] <bschaefer> racarr, and right, the SDL keycodes Ill have to do my own mapping now for the '$' stuff, but as along as I can get the correct keysym I should be fine
[18:10]  * bschaefer looks into it
[18:10] <racarr> bschaefer: Well I mean the mir key"code"
[18:10] <bschaefer> thanks for pointing that out!
[18:10] <racarr> is a keysym
[18:10] <bschaefer> right
[18:10] <racarr> so if shift was down and 4 is hit the key code
[18:10] <racarr> will be XKB_KEY_dollar
[18:11] <bschaefer> oo alright, so ill have to make my own mapping of the special mod + <key> symbols
[18:11] <bschaefer> unless they are around somewhere
[18:13] <racarr> ?
[18:13] <racarr> the values for MirEvent::keycode are all in
[18:13] <racarr> xkbcommon/xkbcommon-keysyms.h
[18:13] <racarr> so I am guessing you can translate from like
[18:13] <racarr> XKB_KEY_dollar to SDL_KEY_dollar and thats all that is needed
[18:14] <racarr> unless that was what you meant by your own mapping :)
[18:14] <bschaefer> racarr, well I was just saying Ill have to do my own mapping of that stuff
[18:14] <bschaefer> yup
[18:14] <racarr> should see how the wayland backend works
[18:14] <bschaefer> racarr, unless theres like a magic -48 :)
[18:14] <racarr> they are probably doing xkb in the client
[18:14] <racarr> but there must be a translation somewhere
[18:14] <racarr> bschaefer: Not normally, though almost all xkb keysyms are unicode characters
[18:14] <racarr> so maybe SDL is the same way
[18:14] <bschaefer> right, well whats strange is they only use the scan codes for input
[18:15] <bschaefer> and then SDL_SendKeyboardText(text);
[18:15] <bschaefer> for everything else
[18:15] <bschaefer> soo, from what I see wayland doesn't handle sending: SDL_SendKeyboardKey of mod + <key>
[18:15] <bschaefer> racarr, but I need to do some more digging, im fairly new to xkb as well :)
[18:19] <racarr> you can use xkb_keysym_to_utf8
[18:19] <racarr> to send text
[18:19] <racarr> it wont always return a value
[18:19] <racarr> i.e. KEY_left
[18:20] <bschaefer> yup, thats what I was planning
[18:21] <bschaefer> but im getting curious to why SDL_SendKeyboardKey seems to only be used w/o modifiers. From what I see they all use something similar  to the scan code mapping
[18:21] <bschaefer> interesting...
[18:23] <racarr> well maybe you send shift down to SDL and then send 4 to sdl and it maps itself
[18:23] <racarr> I dunno
[18:23] <racarr> would be a little weird but not the weirdest!
[18:23] <racarr> but then who knows why its not working
[18:23] <bschaefer> that would weird, but nice ;)
[18:23] <bschaefer> but im not setting the mod in sdl, soo thats what im looking for
[18:23] <bschaefer> hmm: SDL_SetModState(SDL_Keymod modstate);
[18:23]  * bschaefer tires to use that
[18:27] <racarr> bschaefer: You can find themodifier states in...qtubuntu/src/platforms/base/input.cc lol
[18:27] <racarr> I'm not sure where else oO
[18:28] <bschaefer> mir/include/shared/mir_toolkit/events.h is what im more or less stuck with :)
[18:28] <bschaefer> SDL is in C
[18:28] <bschaefer> and lol, a .cc file
[18:28]  * bschaefer looks
[18:28] <racarr> bschaefer: No but I mean you can
[18:28] <racarr> copy them for now
[18:28] <racarr> and they will end up in events.h soon
[18:28] <bschaefer> yeah, i thought you were pointing to a header at first
[18:29] <bschaefer> cool, I can look at doing some of that work as well
[18:29] <racarr> nope just a hipster C++ file
[18:29] <bschaefer> haha
[18:29] <racarr> awesome yes :) propose away
[18:30] <bschaefer> racarr, thanks for all the info! That'll give me a bunch to do today :), ill also test out your cursor branch later!
[18:33] <racarr> Great :) np I am happy someone else is testing input
[19:58] <thomi> hi kdub
[19:58] <thomi> kdub: the docs should be uypdated daily - are they not?
[19:59] <thomi> kdub: more specifically, they should get updated every time something gets merged into trunk
[20:02] <racarr> Back from lunch :)
[20:07] <racarr> thomi: https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/mir-quantal-amd64-ci/474/console halp
[20:07] <racarr> 404?
[20:07] <thomi> racarr: how long ago did the build fail?
[20:08] <racarr> uh within an hour
[20:08] <thomi> racarr: it takes a few minutes to publish
[20:08] <racarr> but I had the same problem on the first build that failed earlier
[20:08] <thomi> should work, let me see
[20:09] <thomi> racarr: got the MP link handy?
[20:09] <racarr> https://code.launchpad.net/~robertcarr/mir/enable-pointer-touch-input/+merge/160153
[20:09] <racarr> thomi: ^
[20:09] <racarr> Had just run off to get it then I got distracted by firefox
[20:11] <thomi> heh
[20:12] <thomi> that's really odd
[20:12] <thomi> neither the private nor the public jenkins have got to job 474
[20:13] <racarr> what about their sentient jenkins love child?
[20:13] <racarr> hmm
[20:13] <racarr> I dunno.
[20:13] <racarr> I could resubmit the branch
[20:13] <thomi> racarr: do you have VPN access?
[20:13] <racarr> probably resets some state
[20:13] <racarr> yeah
[20:14] <thomi> racarr: the job ran
[20:14] <thomi> look here: http://<IP_ADDRESS>:8080/job/mir-quantal-amd64-ci/474/console
[20:14] <thomi> there's your problem ^^ a failed test
[20:14] <thomi>  93/112 Test  #93: memcheck(integration-tests.AndroidInputManagerAndEventFilterDispatcherSetup.*) ...***Failed    3.98 sec
[20:14] <thomi> *sad trombone*
[20:15] <racarr> Ahhh
[20:15] <racarr> that isn't much of an Ahh because who knows why the test fails ;)
[20:15] <racarr> lets look
[20:17] <racarr> hmm
[20:17] <racarr> gtest-repeat=100 is ok locally but
[20:17] <racarr> that would be too easy if it were reproducable ;)
[20:18] <racarr> I can't reproduce the memory errors either
[20:18] <racarr> wish it had --track-origins=yes
[20:18] <racarr> (though that is slow :()
[20:20] <kgunn> racarr: hey, so i was chatting with dandrader
[20:20] <kgunn> about possibly working on input filtering from the shell
[20:21] <kgunn> e.g. filter edge events, pass the rest to whatever qt app is "beneath" the shell
[20:21] <thomi> racarr: there seems to be an issue with publishing job data from the private jenkins, we're looking into it. Until we fix it, you can just look at the private jenkins server instead
[20:21] <kgunn> in order to minimize any throw away & work on real integration issues
[20:22] <kgunn> can't we run mir w/ ubuntu touch on top ?
[20:22] <kgunn> we're not too early to try are we?
[20:22] <kgunn> racarr: kdub ^
[20:22] <racarr> kgunn: Just 3 minutes :) 5 things at once
[20:22] <kgunn> ;)
[20:23] <racarr> need to write down what I am doing or I will forget something
[20:25] <racarr> Ok hi!
[20:25] <racarr> hi dandrader :)
[20:25] <racarr> I am going to go backwards
[20:25] <dandrader> racarr, hi
[20:25] <racarr> we can run mir w/ ubuntu touch on top, with the stuff kdub has set up (and this is continually tried) but this setup is using
[20:25]  * kgunn dandrader in for some racarr entertainment :)
[20:26] <racarr> surface flinger with input only windows shadowing the mir surfaces
[20:26] <racarr> and mir input shut down
[20:26] <racarr> err..
[20:26] <racarr> well basically? Kevin can correct me
[20:26] <racarr> but mir input is shut down so that configuration isn't ready for event filtering stuff
[20:27] <racarr> I do not think we are too early to start trying to run ubuntu touch on mir
[20:27] <racarr> I mean it is possible to take a Launcher.qml today and write a few hundred lines of C++ to run it in process and get it events
[20:28] <racarr> an event filter can be plugged in for edge events, etc for the gestures
[20:28] <racarr> normal events (i.e. clicked on a button)
[20:28] <racarr> can just go over the normal input dispatch
[20:29] <racarr> even though it's inprocess, it will be kind of wasteful it gets something going
[20:30] <racarr> There is one blocker of some sort
[20:30] <racarr> no in process EGL support on android
[20:30] <racarr> not sure how much work that is
[20:30] <racarr> kdub: ^ ?
[20:30] <kgunn> racarr: mmm, so we'd be better off just to create some event filtering scheme in absence of mir
[20:30] <racarr> But I mean, we can get things going on GBM
[20:31] <racarr> kgunn: Hmm I'm not sure I mean I think this week/next week
[20:31] <kdub> should have put the lunch nick on!
[20:31] <racarr> is the time to really get this off the ground
[20:32] <racarr> I'm trying to tie up a lot of loose ends now in demo shell + touch/crsor input stuff, and the basically what Mir can offer the shell for event filtering is
[20:32] <kgunn> racarr: right...timing...so we're kind of close enough we might need to sus up mir input w/ touch on top first
[20:32] <kdub> thomi, unity.ubuntu.com/mir seems to be out of sync with the doc folder
[20:32] <racarr> a global event filter, where it sees the raw stream and can alter/filter it/whatever
[20:32] <dandrader> one thing is that I would like an event canceling mechanism.
[20:33] <racarr> and for shell surface clients (i.e. launcher dash, etc)
[20:33] <racarr> they can receive events much like a regular client would (through Qt) and
[20:33] <racarr> handle them or not
[20:34] <dandrader> e.g. both shell and client application get touch events and once (if) shell recognizes a gesture it wants (out of the current touches) if would grab the gesture and the client app would be a event/gesture/touches canceled event
[20:35] <kgunn> dandrader: mmm, are  you sure? have you considered shell _being_ the filter for both ?...i know you said replay touches expensive but shouldn't it be "gestures" not touches by then?
[20:35] <racarr> hmm. sounds tricky
[20:35] <thomi> kdub: ok, thanks - will investigate today.
[20:35] <racarr> what if the client has already processed the event? It can't
[20:35] <racarr> necessarily rewind what it has done
[20:35] <racarr> so there are lots of situations there where
[20:36] <racarr> the right thing happening is left open to a race of whomever recognizes the gesture first
[20:36] <racarr> there are a few cases events can be cancelled
[20:36] <racarr> i.e. removed by the event filter, cancelled before dispatch (by a sort of dispatch filter)...but this could allow events to go through to certain surfaces or certain shell surfaces while not allowing dispatch to
[20:37] <racarr> occur.
[20:37] <racarr> Then when events are unhandled
[20:37] <racarr> they can be cancelled or retargeted
[20:38] <racarr> I think...hmm. I think in the future if we want to get in to this sort of give client and shell event and let gesture recognizing decide who gets it
[20:38] <racarr> we can extend the idea of event handling with some sort of score.
[20:39] <dandrader> what I mean is the rationale explained here: http://lwn.net/Articles/485484/
[20:40] <racarr> dandrader: This is describing sequential delivery though right? like the shell has a chance to see it and back up the stream
[20:40] <dandrader> although it requires an application have logic to undo whatever it has done with the events of a touch point that got cancelled (because the shell grabbed it)
[20:40] <racarr> then unflood them
[20:41] <racarr> Yes. if we could count on applications
[20:41] <racarr> to have that logic it would be a very cool solution
[20:41] <racarr> but I'm not sure it's possible.
[20:41] <dandrader> it's all about removing the latency involved in replaying a bunch of touch events to an application after gesture recognition is done by the shell and shell decides it does not want this touch point
[20:43] <kgunn> dandrader: dumb question...so is there something on the qt i/f where an app says "handled" wrt touch events/gestures?
[20:43] <kgunn> kgunn: it would seem you either make the shell the master, filter & replay...or you have some other detached monitoring object you can have shell & app
[20:44] <kgunn> dandrader: both indicate to...."i've got it"
[20:44] <kgunn> and avoid the replay
[20:45] <kgunn> while at the same time avoiding having both shell
[20:45] <kgunn> & app operate on the same event stream
[20:47] <dandrader> a similar (but simpler) situation happens when you flick a list of buttons in a touchscreen. you press over a button and it goes to pressed state, but once you start dragging your finger vertically the flickable component takes over the touch point and the button receives a cancellation event. so the button gets "unpressed" instead of released (and therefore clicked) and the list scrolls
[20:51] <dandrader> kgunn, no qt doesn't have that. if I understood you correctly
[20:51] <dandrader> but, well, gotta go. let's continue the discussion tomorrow
[20:54] <racarr> We can allow qt in the shell to have it perhaps though
[20:56] <bschaefer> racarr, sweet, receiving mouse events :)
[20:56] <bschaefer> racarr, also, it looks like you don't have to do the modifiers, as you are suppose to do that on the user side i guess...
[20:57] <bschaefer> check if the event.mod & LSHIFT && SDLK_4 works for me for '$'...strange though...
[20:58] <bschaefer> as how I was checking the "$" before was even failing in X11
[21:00] <kdub> from the android side, if the first edition of ubuntu touch with mir underneath doesn't rely on qt, then we're ok from the graphics side
[21:01] <kdub> android 'in process egl' is slated in the blueprints for ubuntu-13.07:
[21:06] <thomi> kdub: docs uploading fixed - they should be up to date now (well, once the web cache times out anyway) - let me know if you see anything else amiss
[21:06] <kdub> thomi, cool, thanks!
[21:29] <racarr> test was failing due to uninitialize memory accidentally enabling
[21:29] <racarr> pointer acceleration
[21:29] <racarr> haha!
[21:44] <racarr> Comment on https://code.launchpad.net/~robertcarr/platform-api/mirclient/+merge/160217 would be really appreciated
[21:45] <racarr> if it seems confusing, please harass me and ask questions because a qt backend supporting input is something we need to move forward on quickly if we want to get the most out of next week :)
[21:46] <racarr> Also does anyone have time to check https://code.launchpad.net/~robertcarr/mir/demo-shell/+merge/159253 out? alf is on vacation so it needs another review
[21:55] <kdub> racarr, i'll review
[21:58] <racarr> kdub:  thanks :)
[22:50] <racarr> kdub: The crash in demo shell
[22:50] <racarr> was due to initializer_list secretly capturing by reference
[22:50] <racarr> so we had an me::ApplicationSwitcher
[22:50] <racarr> and a temporary mi::EventFilter shared_ptr was created
[22:50] <racarr> for the initializer_list
[22:51] <racarr> then it was destroyed when the scope exited and
[22:51] <racarr> initializer list has a bogus reference
[22:51] <racarr> initializer_list is weird :p
[22:51] <racarr> it's fixed now due to owning the list in main
[23:08] <racarr> Anyone have any problem with me switching this to approved: https://code.launchpad.net/~robertcarr/mir/reflow-input-focus-selection/+merge/159225
[23:08] <racarr> approve from alan + an old (addressed) needs fixing from alf
[23:29] <kdub> racarr, looking it over... one min


[00:03] <CadetX> does ubuntu 10.10 ship the latest flash (i have 64bit system so i need 64bit flash too) or i should get it from adobe site?
[02:05] <xubuntu135> so, xubuntu is sexy ?
[09:51] <nunatak> hello. my xubuntu 11.10 panels often forgets that they're set to autohide. is there a way to force them?
[11:16] <insin> Hi, how does Xubuntu control placing of dotfiles under ~/.config instead of directly in ~? I'm writing a script which needs to reference something in a config folder and I'd like to avoid harcoding the .config part it if possible
[11:17] <insin> s/it if/of it if/
[11:20] <_Pete_> as you need to hardcode in someplace?
[11:20] <_Pete_> what is the difference=
[11:20] <Myrtti> insin: afaik .config is a place applications themselves choose to dump the .files into
[11:21] <insin> Ok, thanks
[11:21] <Myrtti> IIRC it may be a freedesktop.org recommendation
[11:22] <Myrtti> I'd double check, but my browser seems to be in an non-cooperative mood
[11:47] <TheSheep> http://standards.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/basedir-spec-latest.html
[11:47] <TheSheep> you use $XDG_CONFIG_HOME
[11:48] <kraut> hi
[11:48] <kraut> i configured my dock not to switch apps to another virtual desktop. but if i click f.e. on desk2 an url, firefox switches from desk1 to desk2. can anybody help me with this please?
[11:49] <TheSheep> kraut: window manager settings, second tab
[11:50] <kraut> TheSheep: what?
[11:50] <TheSheep> kraut: window manager settings, second tab
[11:50] <kraut> TheSheep: what?
[11:50] <TheSheep> kraut: window manager settings, second tab
[11:50] <kraut> ...
[11:51] <kraut> which fscking tab?
[11:51] <TheSheep> kraut: you can set the 'activate action' to 'bring', 'switch' or 'none' there
[11:52] <TheSheep> kraut: temper, temper
[11:52] <kraut> i need to know where to find these settings please.
[11:52] <kraut> xfce -> settings?
[11:53] <TheSheep> yes
[11:53] <kraut> ah, cool
[11:53] <TheSheep> sorry, this is from memory, I'm not on xfce right now
[11:54] <kraut> perfect, that's it, thanks!
[11:54] <kraut> no problem. i also need to translate your tips into krautish ;)
[11:54] <kraut> it's called "Feineinstellung des Fensterverhaltens"
[11:54] <kraut> there is your mentoined second tab
[11:55] <kraut> erm, ok. just another little problem. i need to set setxkbmap to de after every login. is there any global config for this in xfce?
[11:57] <kraut> i set in xfce -> settings -> keyboard the layout to de but this seems to be ignored
[13:19] <kora-chan> Hey guys, I'm using 11.10 and was wondering if there is any way to disable the touchpad. I'm only using my trackpoint, and thus the touchpad is more or less annoying if I accidently touvh it.
[14:08] <k_sze> darn
[14:09] <k_sze> the upgrader (from 11.04 to 11.10) seems to be stuck after I chose the display manager.
[14:09] <k_sze> It's been churning my HDD for a few hours already.
[14:38] <n2diy>  my sound notification no longer works in xchat-gnome, or Thunderbird, but it works with other apps?
[19:17] <shevek_> If I run xubuntu, do I get a sane, non-crashy environment without unity?
[19:17] <Sysi> totally
[19:18] <shevek_> good. I am disgusted beyond words with ubuntu 11.10. I will try switching
[19:18] <shevek_> I can just apt-get xfce4 or do I have to do some deeper magic?
[19:19] <Sysi> if you want complete xubuntu you should install xubuntu-desktop
[19:19] <Sysi> nicer default settings etc
[19:20] <shevek_> cool. just ran an xfce session and still got unity, so trying the desktop now
[19:20] <shevek_> I can't express adequately my disgust with this new ubuntu.
[19:20] <shevek_> And I've been using linux since '92.
[19:21] <shevek_> I've used fvwm, olvwm, mwm, twm, mlvwm, mwm, cde, etc, all in anger, and unity is basically a huge step backwards from all of them.
[19:22] <Sysi> xfce originally was like CDE, it probably still has some same mentality
[19:22] <shevek_> well, if it's basically small, and gets out of my bloody way, I'll love it
[19:23] <shevek_> unity doesn't let me switch between windows, only apps
[19:23] <shevek_> which is wrong, cognitively
[19:23] <shevek_> because it assumes that all of your xterms are "one app"
[19:23] <shevek_> which implies that one job is being done in all your xterms
[19:23] <shevek_> which, for any developer, is madly wrong.
[19:24] <Sysi> I've only tried unity shortly, it seemed messy compared to gnome-shell
[19:24] <shevek_> I crashed it like 10 times, that's a cardinal sin before you even start on usability.
[19:24] <Sysi> xfce is old-school but has all the stuff I feel in love with in linux
[19:24] <shevek_> and once I had to hardboot the machine
[19:25] <Sysi> s/feel/fell
[19:25] <shevek_> 1 more min and I'll be in xfce
[19:25] <shevek_> ohcrap, it reinstalled software-center and oneconf. oh wlel
[19:26] <Sysi> selecting xfce- or xubuntu-session decides if you get upstream defaults or xubuntu defaults
[19:26] <Sysi> in first login
[19:26] <shevek_> so, which do I want?
[19:27] <Sysi> doesn't matter much if you're gonna customize it, but just for the defaults xubuntu is nicer
[19:27] <Sysi> gtk2+3 theme and more featured panels layout
[19:27] <shevek_> ah, nice, clean.
[19:27] <shevek_> ok, this looks a lot more usable.
[19:28] <shevek_> ok, two more questions, if you don't mind.
[19:28] <Sysi> this channel is for questions
[19:28] <shevek_> How do I add custom keybindings to run commands?  gnome-keybinding-properties has gone away,and xfce isn't honouring the gconf-editor stuff I did
[19:28] <Sysi> settings -> keyboard -> application shortcuts
[19:29] <shevek_> I didn't get a settings -> keyboard
[19:29] <shevek_> only keyboard input methods
[19:29] <Sysi> "settings editor" or something, top most one
[19:30] <shevek_> got it
[19:30] <shevek_> thank you
[19:31] <shevek_> ah, I think I grok the panels, so I can put the app selector on the bottom panel like before...
[19:33] <shevek_> so, I set up 24 virtuasl desktops, but when I said 'show in 2 rows', it didnt. :-(
[19:35] <shevek_> and when I try to open folders, I get .gvfs: transport endpoint not connected (but this isn't really important as I can just use xterm)
[19:35] <vor0nwe> what folders are those?  .gvfs suggests Gnome Virtual File System to me
[19:36] <shevek_> .gvfs, iirc, is where gnome automounts things like usb sticks, and userspace filesystems and stuff
[19:36] <shevek_> it's presumably a leftover from unity/gnome in my homedir
[19:36] <shevek_> meh, I never use the filebrowser. I'm more worried about not having my virtual desktops in 2 rows
[19:38] <charlie-tca> You may have Nautilus trying to run the desktop for you
[19:38] <vor0nwe> , gods!)
[19:38] <vor0nwe> Would they work if you had less?
[19:39] <shevek_> ah, solved it
[19:39] <shevek_> it's because there were 2 workspace switchers, and then you can't set preferences on either because the other overrides it
[19:40] <shevek_> when I spotted the other workspace switcher in the top panel, and removed it, it's fine now :-)
[19:40] <shevek_> charlie-tca, Yes, I think that's a nautilus window or something.
[19:40] <charlie-tca> yeah, it tries to take over, kind of like Internet Explorer in Windows now
[19:41] <charlie-tca> You have to kill Nautilus, then run xfwm4 --replace
[19:41] <shevek_> can I tell it not to?
[19:41] <shevek_> this panel management is really, really nice
[19:41] <shevek_> charlie-tca, I just logged in, will I have to do that every time?
[19:41] <charlie-tca> yup
[19:42] <charlie-tca> as long as Nautilus is installed, as far as I know
[19:42] <shevek_> no good :-( can I make it so nautilus just doesn't start?
[19:42] <charlie-tca> Nautilus thinks it should own the desktop. It refuses not to start
[19:43] <shevek_> so, I think the last thing is, I need to set up all my keyboard shortcuts to match my .olvwmrc from '92 because I'm a very old dog and can't learn new tricks
[19:43] <shevek_> so, somewhere in the docs there must be a magic list of keyboard shortcut comnmands
[19:43] <shevek_> like 'goto_workspace_4'
[19:43] <shevek_> I have the conf editor open, I can see where to type the incantations, but I don't have a list of incantations?
[19:44] <charlie-tca> settings, window manager, keyboard
[19:44] <shevek_> I don't have settings -> window manager
[19:44] <shevek_> I only have the raw settings editor.
[19:44] <shevek_> Am I missing a config app?
[19:44] <shevek_> I don't have settings, keyboard either.
[19:44] <shevek_> Only the 'settings editor' which is kind of like gconf-editor
[19:45] <charlie-tca> Should be a menu, with settings -> Settings manager
[19:45] <shevek_> sorry, yes, I'm in settings manager
[19:45] <shevek_> so now I have a tree.
[19:45] <shevek_> I can guess the keybinding-fu, but I need to know the magic words for column 3
[19:45] <charlie-tca> and in settings manager is "window Manager"
[19:46] <charlie-tca> and in that is a keyboard tab with all the shortcfuts
[19:46] <Sysi> try Alt F2 and running xfce4-settings-editor
[19:46] <shevek_> oh
[19:46] <shevek_> I was confusing settings editor with settings manager
[19:47] <shevek_> aha, I'm i nbusiness.
[19:47] <shevek_> You have yourselves a new advocate. This is really nice.
[19:50] <shevek_> so, if I bind ctrl-f1 to something
[19:50] <shevek_> and it says "This is already bound to something else"
[19:50] <shevek_> it asks me to confirm twice
[19:50] <shevek_> BUT
[19:50] <shevek_> if I hold down control for long enough that it shows CTRL_L before binding ctrl-f1
[19:50] <shevek_> then it only asks me to confirm the rebind once
[19:51] <shevek_> weird, minor, but fun bug
[19:51] <urthmover> if I must use a network manager gui  which one has a simple panel applet?  is network-manager my best option?
[19:52] <shevek_> could be wrong, could just be that some of them randomly had two other bindings, not one, because it didn't trigger with f11 and f12.
[19:54] <Sysi> urthmover: nm-applet is what xubuntu uses
[19:54] <urthmover> ah ok Sysi  thanks
[19:56] <urthmover> Sysi: what package is nm-applet in?
[19:57] <urthmover> nvrmnd Sysi it's a part of network-manager-gnome now it seems
[20:02] <projekt26> has anyone had problems with the whole system hanging when moving files to a truecrypt file container in ubuntu?
[20:07] <shevek_> in power manager, there's an inactivity sleep mode, but it doesn't have a "disable sleep on inactivity" setting. Is this setting somewhere else?
[20:07] <shevek_> doh, found it
[20:07] <shevek_> sorry
[20:14] <shevek_> yes, this is really, really nice, thank you all
[20:25] <urthmover> does anyone know how to move the window title bar buttons of chromium to the left?
[20:29] <TheSheep> urthmover: I don't think it's possible without compiling your own version
[20:30] <urthmover> bummer ok thanks for responding TheSheep
[20:30] <urthmover> meh I guess I'll compile my own....arg all the overhead of build-essentials and gcc
[20:31] <TheSheep> urthmover: that was meant more like "it's hardcoded and doing it is not trivial"
[20:31] <TheSheep> urthmover: probably even compiling your own would involve first quite some work in finding where it is hardcoded and changing it
[20:31] <Sysi> or you could use system's window manager borders
[20:32] <TheSheep> or that
[20:32] <urthmover> TheSheep: you are right
[20:32] <urthmover> TheSheep: I find it a bummer that the released version does it but chromium does not
[20:34] <TheSheep> urthmover: does it?
[20:35] <TheSheep> it does?
[20:35] <urthmover> I believe there is a perference for it in the stable released
[20:35] <TheSheep> that's cool
[20:45] <urthmover> TheSheep: I guess in compact mode the buttons can't be moved....if you are in regular mode  the buttons follow your window manager's specifications....I could have sworn you could move them to the left in comapct mode...but that might have been on windows
[21:10] <craigbass1976> using gnome, I can hook up to another box via ssh or sftp via the regular file browser.  How do I do that in xfce?
[21:13] <Sysi> 11.04 or 11.10, you have "network" in filemanager sidepanel
[21:14] <Sysi> press Ctrl L and put host like smb://myhost.lan
[21:14] <Sysi> or use gigolo
[21:22] <craigbass1976> Sysi, gigolo works.  Do you know how to get right into my /home/me/ on the server, or do you always end up at / in gigolo?
[21:22] <Sysi> sorry but I haven't really used gigolo, maybe someone else knows
[21:24] <tjingboem> after an update today i lost the window manager somehow
[21:24] <Sysi> alt F2  "xfwm4 --replace"
[21:24] <tjingboem> the borders of the windows are missing
[21:24] <tjingboem> how can i get them back?
[21:24] <Sysi> rm -rf ~/.cache/sessions to be sure
[21:25] <tjingboem> they are back again
[21:25] <tjingboem> thanks Sysi
[21:26] <tjingboem> was that something because of the update?
[21:27] <Sysi> that has happened somewhat randomly since 4.8 was released
[21:28] <Sysi> I mean others have reported that too, not happened for me
[21:29] <tjingboem> i see. i will make a note of how to repair it in case it happens agaun
[22:00] <shevek_> Is there an easy way to change my window title bar colours?
[22:00] <shevek_> I found something where I have to edit gtk colours in a prefs file, but is there anything more direct?
[22:01] <shevek_> (or less direct, depending on perspective)
[22:07] <charlie-tca> most of the themes will be gray, so that is probably the easiest
[22:14] <knome> shevek_, try bluebird
[22:53] <shevek_> charlie-tca, I'm trying to achieve bright contrasting colours without being monochrome or ugly.
[22:53] <shevek_> preferably all windows gray except the highlighted one
[22:53] <shevek_> but the fashion nowadays seems to be that everything is a dull grey
[22:54] <shevek_> given my 8 hours cussing at unity, if I'm down to the colour scheme on xfce, it's a win
[22:54] <shevek_> Theme engine said everything was PNGs so maybe I just have to make some.
[22:55] <charlie-tca> Thus, my answer that manually editing the files is probably the way to do it.
[23:10] <xubuntu309> swedish or only english?
[23:10] <knome> english only here
[23:10] <knome> !se
[23:10] <knome> ubottu, !
[23:10] <Myrtti> !sv
[23:10] <Myrtti> hum
[23:10] <knome> !sw
[23:10] <knome> it's just lagging...
[23:56] <xubuntu798> hi 2 all
[23:57] <xubuntu798> every body... silence)
[23:58] <knome> if you have a support question, just ask