[12:08] <kirkland> is there a such place where one can find a nightly (or regular) tarball of bcollins/ubuntu-2.6.git tree?
[12:09] <kirkland> i see /topic, but those look a little out of date...
[01:00] <crimsun> kirkland: I don't know offhand, but you can always just crontab a ``git pull''
[04:56] <mjg59> BenC: When you updated the bcm code, you seemed to stomp over my patches...
[04:56] <BenC> crap, I probably did
[04:56] <mjg59> BenC: Should just reapply, with luck
[04:57] <BenC> wish bcm had a 2.6.15 git tree :/
[04:57] <BenC> yeah, I can probably re-base them in git
[04:57] <mjg59> You're pulling from the 2.6.16 one and then merging back?
[05:00] <BenC> your changes or bcm43xx in general?
[05:00] <mjg59> bcm43xx in general
[05:01] <BenC> nah, grabbing daily-snapshot tarball and just copying
[05:01] <BenC> 2.6.16 would be hard to pull from
[05:02] <crimsun> BenC: (just a minor, but s/David/Daniel/ in the changelog)
[05:02] <BenC> ah, sorry :)
[05:02] <crimsun> no biggie :)
[05:03] <BenC> done
[05:03] <crimsun> gracias
[05:06] <mjg59> BenC: Ah, ok
[05:06] <mjg59> BenC: If you could reapply my diff, that would be great
[07:42] <lamont> BenC: isn't ide-generic still the module that acutally triggers ide subsystem initialization?
[07:44] <Keybuk> BenC: ping
[07:46] <BenC> lamont: no
[07:46] <Keybuk> BenC: it appears I missed a discussion this afternoon
[07:51] <makx> BenC: are you sure? (i mean considering isa)
[07:57] <BenC_> ide works with ide-generic
[07:57] <Keybuk> BenC_: so it appears I missed a discussion this afternoon?
[07:57] <BenC_> Keybuk: appears so :)
[07:58] <Keybuk> BenC_: which is a shame, because your conclusions were all wrong
[07:58] <Keybuk> anyway, am replying now via e-mail
[07:58] <BenC_> I don't recall having any conclusions
[07:58] <Keybuk> "wait 10s before loading ide-generic"
[07:59] <BenC_> that's not a conclusion, that's a suggestion :)
[07:59] <Keybuk> it's a decision, according to your e-mail

[07:59] <BenC_> based on Mith's argument
[07:59] <Keybuk> it won't help a monkey's
[07:59] <Keybuk> the kernel already has that "sleep 10" in the IDE init code
[07:59] <Keybuk> which is in the module loading bit
[07:59] <Keybuk> so blocks the return of modprobe
[08:00] <BenC_> but if the module load is blocking, so are all other modules
[08:00] <Keybuk> "all other modules" ?
[08:00] <BenC_> I didn't know ide-generic had a sleep(10) i it
[08:00] <Keybuk> ide-generic doesn't
[08:00] <BenC_> or is this ide-core?
[08:00] <Keybuk> every IDE driver does
[08:00] <Keybuk> ide-core
[08:00] <Keybuk> modprobe real-pci-driver
[08:01] <Keybuk> consistently doesn't return until udev has the events
[08:01] <BenC_> is this the "Probing later" thing?
[08:01] <Keybuk> it can take a few seconds to return on most things
[08:01] <Keybuk> I don't know what "probing later" is
[08:01] <BenC_> are you sure you read Mith's arguments that promoted me suggesting that?
[08:01] <BenC_> prompted
[08:02] <BenC_> he statement was that the main reason we don't use UUID more widely is that it has some dependency on the bus type
[08:02] <Keybuk> right
[08:03] <Keybuk> and the sleep 10 won't change that
[08:03] <Keybuk> it doesn't have a dependency on the bus type
[08:03] <Keybuk> this is the bit where me being there would have helped
[08:03] <BenC_> he stated differently
[08:03] <Keybuk> ok, so here's how the initramfs bits work
[08:03] <Keybuk> first we look at the ROOT= to detect the bus type
[08:03] <Keybuk> either IDE or "everything else" (which are always scsi)
[08:04] <BenC_> then it does have code that depends on ide or !ide
[08:04] <mjg59> Keybuk: Eh? That's entirely untrue, as far as I can tell
[08:04] <Keybuk> All the drivers under the scsi subsystem (which includes sata, usb, firewire) behave one way
[08:04] <mjg59> Keybuk: I can't find any sign of a sleep(10) in the ide-generic load path
[08:04] <Keybuk> the modprobe returns immediately, then at some point in the future the driver finds its devices
[08:04] <Keybuk> mjg59: not a literal sleep(10); not ide-generic; the ide-core probes and binds for the REAL PCI DRIVERS before modprobe can return
[08:05] <mjg59> Keybuk: How?
[08:05] <Keybuk> mjg59: please let me finish first
[08:05] <Keybuk> ok, so for scsi and friends; we have to iterate the bus, modprobe all the drivers, then sit back and wait for the devices to show up
[08:05] <Keybuk> sit back and wait up to three minutes
[08:06] <Keybuk> for especially slow scsi controllers (fabbione delights in owning these)
[08:06] <Keybuk> so we do it with a simple while loop; while the root device hasn't shown up on disc, sleep another tenth of a second
[08:06] <Keybuk> if it at the end of that loop, the root device still hasn't shown up, we give up
[08:06] <BenC> ok, the ide portion is more important :)
[08:07] <Keybuk> for dapper+1 I'd like to extend that to "wait forever", and have some pretty on screen message saying something along the lines of "if your root disk isn't plugged in, could you do that?"
[08:07] <Keybuk> so that's scsi
[08:08] <Keybuk> ide we do it differently, because the ide subsystem has different quirks
[08:08] <Keybuk> the drivers behave the other way, the modprobe doesn't return until the driver has done the probe-and-bind
[08:08] <Keybuk> there's no asynchronous component to them
[08:09] <Keybuk> we also may have to load ide-generic on legacy ISA machines
[08:09] <Keybuk> and in some cases with a root device on an ancient PCMCIA controller (which counts as "legacy ISA" in my mind)
[08:09] <mjg59> Keybuk: I'm still not finding anywhere where the PCI IDE drivers differ from normal PCI drivers (where there is an asynchronous component)
[08:09] <mjg59> Hm. PCMCIA ought to come under pcmcia_cs
[08:09] <mjg59> Uh, ide_cs
[08:10] <BenC> regular PCI IDE drivers use pci probing, and normal device layer callbacks
[08:10] <makx> pcmcia bridges are not incl. in latest initramfs by default
[08:10] <Keybuk> mjg59: critical path.  the ide core already knows what devices are available.  so there's no issuing of a probe command, and waiting for it to return.  it just iterates an already-in-memory structure and does the magic
[08:10] <mjg59> There's a corner case where it's not actually PCMCIA, but an on-board IDE interface is connected via the PMCIA slot
[08:10] <BenC> the difference is that IDE detects the drives at the same time it detects the controllers
[08:11] <BenC> so Keybuk is correct in how it works
[08:11] <Keybuk> right
[08:11] <Keybuk> if you detect the controller, you also just detected the drives
[08:11] <BenC> how do you decide to load ide-generic?
[08:11] <Keybuk> scsi after detecting the controller you have to ask the controller nicely to go detect the drives and get back to you on that
[08:11] <Keybuk> right
[08:11] <Keybuk> so because of the way ide works in this regard, what we do is
[08:11] <Keybuk> iterate each PCI device in order, and load the module for it, waiting for everything to settle in between
[08:12] <mjg59> Keybuk: You load piix. That registers itself as an IDE driver, which in turn calls pci_register_driver. After pci_register_driver, the probe routine in piix (piix_init_one) is called. If that binds to something, it does ide_setup_pci_device (which actually allocates the interface)
[08:12] <mjg59> Isn't that exactly the same as loading a network driver, except that pci_register_device is done in the IDE layer rather than in the module itself?
[08:12] <Keybuk> mjg59: right, nothing there returns to userspace
[08:12] <Keybuk> thanks for verifying that for us :)
[08:12] <Keybuk> so we know after we've loaded the PCI drivers, if the root device still hasn't shown up, it isn't going to show up later
[08:13] <Keybuk> so we load ide-generic as a last resort
[08:13] <Keybuk> scsi looks like "load drivers; wait for root device to show up; abort after 3 minutes"
[08:13] <Keybuk> ide looks like "load drivers sequentially; if root device hasn't shown up, load ide-generic"
[08:14] <mjg59> So the original discussion appears to have been based on the false premise that we need to know whether the root device is on ide or not in order to only load ide-generic at the appropriate time?
[08:14] <Keybuk> well, no
[08:14] <BenC> no, it's correct
[08:14] <Keybuk> we still need to know whether we may or may not need to load ide-generic
[08:14] <BenC> the only incorrect info I got was the loading ide-generic was racy and could cause problems
[08:14] <mjg59> Why not load scsi drivers first, then ide drivers (at this point based on PCI IDs), then unconditionally load ide-generic if there's still no rootfs?
[08:15] <mjg59> Loading ide-generic isn't going to hurt in the case where the PCI driver has already bound the io-ports
[08:15] <Keybuk> mjg59: because of FUCKING SATA
[08:15] <mjg59> Keybuk: But you've already loaded the driver
[08:15] <Keybuk> SATA as far as I'm concerned is a scsi driver
[08:15] <BenC> mjg59: according to Mith, Fabio's crappy scsi controller breaks if you load ide-generic
[08:15] <Keybuk> it behaves like scsi drivers
[08:15] <Keybuk> most importantly, it returns from modprobe immediately, before performing the controller-specific initialisation
[08:15] <Keybuk> so modprobe piix-sata will return straight away, and udev will get the devices some few seconds later
[08:16] <Keybuk> on some older SATA controllers, on a busy system, this can be 10-15s
[08:16] <BenC> Keybuk: ok, here's the problems I see....
[08:16] <Keybuk> loading ide-generic at any point before the SATA SCSI driver has finished can sometimes "steal" the devices from it
[08:16] <Keybuk> the solution wwould be to only load ide-generic after the three minutes are up
[08:17] <Keybuk> which means everyone on ISA would have to wait 3 minutes before their machine started booting
[08:17] <mjg59> Keybuk: ata_piix calls piix_init, which calls pci_module_init, which will then provide a probe method which registers the pors
[08:17] <BenC> Keybuk: IMO, we should detect that ide-generic is needed at install, and make a note of it for initramfs to use :)
[08:17] <mjg59> Keybuk: I'm still not seeing how this is different to the IDE case (though there may be something very simple I'm missing)
[08:17] <BenC> or when initramfs is built, it could detect that
[08:17] <Keybuk> mjg59: right, and then it returns to userspace, and libata later calls the probe method
[08:18] <Keybuk> BenC: I agree.  We can look in /sys in the installer and see whether the driver is ide-generic or not;  if not, use UUID
[08:18] <mjg59> Keybuk: Sorry, /which/ probe method?
[08:19] <Keybuk> mjg59: I can't remember offhand; when I looked through the code (a few months ago) the SATA stuff was very much callback orientated
[08:19] <Keybuk> and hooked into the SCSI bits of the kernel which are totally async
[08:19] <BenC> mjg59: from what I can tell, scsi device probing happens in the scsiX kernel process and not in the module probe code path
[08:19] <Keybuk> whereas IDE was all one obvious line of function call codes
[08:19] <mjg59> BenC: What are you defining as "scsi device probing"?
[08:19] <Keybuk> mjg59: "devices handled by the kernel scsi subsystem", which includes SATA ide drives
[08:19] <BenC> where it probes for devices attached to the controller, as opposed to the controller itself
[08:20] <mjg59> BenC: But by that time it's already registered the i/o ports, surely?
[08:20] <Keybuk> mjg59: not always,no
[08:20] <Keybuk> loading the controller driver doesn't guarantee anything other than you've opened the controller
[08:20] <BenC> mjg59: i/o for the controller yes, but for the ports no
[08:20] <Keybuk> at that point, you may be lucky enough for the ports to be registered, but not generally
[08:21] <Keybuk> device probing on the controller happens later
[08:21] <mjg59> pci_request_regions is done in ata_pci_init_one
[08:21] <mjg59> Which is called directly from the ata_piix PCI probe routine
[08:21] <Keybuk> mjg59: there's an easy way to test it btw
[08:21] <Keybuk> boot with break=top
[08:21] <mjg59> Keybuk: Well, if I had any SATA machines...
[08:22] <Keybuk> modprobe -a piix-sata ide-generic
[08:22] <mjg59> (That is, SATA machines with legacy i/o)
[08:22] <Keybuk> about 7/10 times, your drives will be /dev/hda rather than /dev/sda
[08:22] <Keybuk> or just trawl malone for the ~100 bugs about that
[08:22] <mjg59> Keybuk: Right, I'm willing to believe that, but I still don't see any mechanism by which this can be true for sata but not for IDE
[08:22] <Keybuk> one of them from mdz :)  his laptop loves to trigger that case
[08:22] <mjg59> Uh. When did mdz get a new laptop?
[08:23] <Keybuk> sorry, strike that; mdz had a different bug, I think
[08:23] <mjg59> Yeah, he had ide-generic binding before piix
[08:23] <Keybuk> yeah
[08:23] <Keybuk> he doesn't have a sata laptop
[08:23] <mjg59> (Which you've just been telling me is impossible, but :) )
[08:23] <Keybuk> no we loaded ide-generic first in his case
[08:23] <Keybuk> that was a clear-out bug :p
[08:24] <Keybuk> mjg59: if you start with IDE from the top, you'll see that nothing returns to userspace until the drives are already probed for and bound
[08:24] <Keybuk> mjg59: if you start with SCSI/SATA from the top, there are plenty of return to userspace b
[08:24] <Keybuk> points before the drives are probed for
[08:24] <mjg59> Keybuk: As far as I can tell, in both the IDE and sata cases, the io regions are requested in the call into the core layer that occurs at the end of the pci probe
[08:24] <BenC> ok, from what I'm hearing, ide-generic should really be the corner case instead of ide in general
[08:24] <Keybuk> I'm not sure about registering of i/o ports, I wasn't looking for that
[08:24] <Keybuk> and I don't really understand that
[08:25] <mjg59> Keybuk: It's the registration of i/o ports that's then /entire point/
[08:25] <Keybuk> I was looking at pure "when does the kernel create sdXY and associate it with that driver"
[08:25] <mjg59> If the i/o ports are registered, ide-generic won't bind. Otherwise, it will.
[08:25] <Keybuk> but ide-generic does bind
[08:25] <mjg59> Keybuk: Yes, but that's not the problem
[08:25] <BenC> yeah, which driver grabs the ports from the kernel is the winner
[08:25] <mjg59> So. How can that situation arise in the sata case, but not the ide one?
[08:25] <BenC> but from what I can tell, there not only i/o per controller, but i/o per device
[08:26] <mjg59> BenC: No
[08:26] <mjg59> One i/o region per channel
[08:26] <BenC> ok, one per primary and secondary
[08:27] <Keybuk> I'm quite happy to change the initramfs code to look like:
[08:27] <Keybuk> - load pci drivers
[08:27] <Keybuk> - load ide-generic
[08:27] <Keybuk> - wait for up to three minutes for the root device to show up
[08:27] <Keybuk> - abort
[08:27] <mjg59> Keybuk: Could you take a look at drivers/scsi/ata_piix.c and tell me where it enters userspace between loading and hitting line 4843 of libata-core?
[08:28] <mjg59> I'm genuinely failing to get this
[08:29] <Keybuk> I can't see where it gets to libata-core
[08:29] <Keybuk> ah, sorry
[08:29] <Keybuk> at the bottom
[08:30] <Keybuk> right so piix_init calls pci_module_init calls piix_init_one calls ata_pci_init_one
[08:30] <mjg59> Yes
[08:30] <mjg59> Which is identical to the IDE case, as far as I can tell
[08:31] <Keybuk> right
[08:31] <Keybuk> and is this true for every single sata driver?
[08:31] <Keybuk> if it's true that all the sata drivers reserve their regions in init, then I'm happy
[08:32] <Keybuk> that may not have been true earlier, or we may have had a different bug
[08:32] <mjg59> ahci seems to do it internally, but doesn't do legacy IDE anyway as far as I can tell
[08:32] <Keybuk> and as long as reserving the regions guarantees ide-generic can't steal the devices
[08:32] <BenC> that still doesn't help out issue where scsi in general is delayed device probing
[08:32] <Keybuk> how does it effect that issue?
[08:33] <mjg59> BenC: That's fine. Load all SCSI controllers, loda all PCI IDE, load ide-generic, wait up to three minutes (or whatever)
[08:33] <BenC> sata behaving like ide doesn't help anything :)
[08:33] <Keybuk> this wouldn't distinguish between SCSI and PCI IDE drivers
[08:34] <Keybuk> can anyone recall off-hand how we avoid loading both the SATA and PATA driver for a controller?
[08:34] <Keybuk> do we do that in the kernel?
[08:34] <mjg59> They have different PCI IDs
[08:34] <BenC> so basically, from my point of view is, load scsi, ide, ide-generic, loop for 3 minutes checking for device path and/or UUID
[08:34] <mjg59> BenC: Yeah
[08:35] <mjg59> Keybuk: We still need to deal with the case where ata_piix binds to the controller but can't drive it
[08:35] <Keybuk> mjg59: we do?
[08:35] <Keybuk> do we deal with that nw?
[08:35] <mjg59> No
[08:35] <mjg59> Which breaks several machines
[08:35] <Keybuk> oh, well, if it's not a regression... :)
[08:35] <Keybuk> was this what we talked briefly about in the DeathSprint?
[08:35] <mjg59> It's not a regression, but it's been an open bug since before breezy
[08:35] <mjg59> Think so
[08:36] <mjg59> ahci and ata_piix share PCI IDs. We should always try to bind ahci first.
[08:36] <Keybuk> can't remember what the decision was there though
[08:36] <mjg59> Currently, the reverse happens
[08:36] <Keybuk> right, and some cards work for ahci, some for ata_piix
[08:36] <Keybuk> and you can't tell which?
[08:36] <mjg59> ahci should always fail when it's not drivable by ahci
[08:36] <mjg59> But ata_piix will sometimes bind even when it can't drive it
[08:37] <Keybuk> why doesn't ata_piix do the same?
[08:37] <Keybuk> that sounds like the bug to me
[08:37] <mjg59> Broken BIOS
[08:37] <Keybuk> they might have a second ide controller that needs ata_piix
[08:37] <mjg59> Or, rather, the detection code in ata_piix assumes the BIOS is sensible
[08:37] <mjg59> Keybuk: I can't see how
[08:37] <mjg59> Keybuk: You can't get them on PCI cards
[08:38] <mjg59> Though it would be more of a problem once ata_piix is needed for driving PATA devices
[08:38] <mjg59> (So not a dapper issue)
[08:38] <Keybuk> yeah, my inclination with anything involving two fighting modules is to fix the modules
[08:38] <Keybuk> as there's always a corner case where you may HAVE to load both modules on a given machine
[08:38] <mjg59> I'm not convinced it's possible to fix the module in this case
[08:39] <Keybuk> we have similar examples today where people have OSS and ALSA sound cards in the same machine
[08:39] <Keybuk> and have filed bugs saying that ALSA OSS emulation doesn't work
[08:39] <mjg59> Right, but that's clearly a bug in alsa
[08:40] <Keybuk> or there's one where they need both snd_bt87x and bt878 loaded; but snd_bt87x won't work if bttv (dep of bt878) has been loaded first, etc.
[08:40] <BenC> yeah, that's a bttv bug, IMO
[08:41] <Keybuk> I
[08:42] <Keybuk> I do want to think about "blacklist-if" kind of thing for dapper+1
[08:42] <mjg59> Keybuk: Ok. Almost all sata drivers call pci_request_regions themselves. The only one that doesn't is ata_piix, and that's the case we've already discussed
[08:43] <mjg59> So if there's no race in ide, I can't see any race here
[08:45] <Keybuk> hmm
[08:45] <Keybuk> the only thing about modifying modprobe to selectively blacklist, or force a particular order, is it only works if one alias requests both modules
[08:46] <Keybuk> it fails for when you have two devices which cause both modules to be loaded
[08:46] <Keybuk> which again, leads me back to pointing at the driver itself and saying "iz module bug"
[08:48] <mjg59> Well, I'm fairly convinced it's a BIOS bug
[09:02] <Keybuk> we can't ship updates to those via APT though :p
[09:08] <mjg59> Yeah, so the issue is whether we can work around it
[09:09] <mjg59> Based on what you were saying earlier, just loading ahci first should be sufficient, right?
[09:09] <mjg59> Because it should bind to the PCI device before you've had a chance to load ata_piix
[09:09] <Keybuk> the problem is when ata_piix and ahci are loaded due to different devices
[09:09] <Keybuk> no, it's a race condition :(
[09:09] <mjg59> That's not going to be a problem in this specific case
[09:10] <mjg59> Hang on. How is that a race condition and our earlier conversation wasn't?
[09:10] <Keybuk> (on phone, will be more eloquent in a sec)
[09:11] <mjg59> If there's a race between ahci and ata_piix being loaded, surely there's a race between piix and ide-generic?
[09:11] <mjg59> (I'm ignoring the case of multiple PCI devices, because that doesn't apply in the problem case as far as I can tell)
[09:17] <lamont> BenC: I could swear that was the case in 2.6.12 for ia64 (at least...)  ISTR uploading 3 times to get it right...
[09:58] <Keybuk> mjg59: sorry, off phone now
[09:58] <Keybuk> damned relationships are so hard work <g>
[09:59] <Keybuk> race condition was with multiple devices, as we call modprobe at basically the same time
[09:59] <Keybuk> we could do a modprobe patch to handle the case of both drivers being expanded from an alias for a single device
[09:59] <Keybuk> would be trivial
[09:59] <Keybuk> it builds a list of them, and just have a "force-order" config option or something
[09:59] <Keybuk> sorting depmod output would be another option
[10:02] <mjg59> Keybuk: Right. In the cases I've seen, there's only one device
[10:02] <mjg59> So just having it load ahci first would be fine
[10:31] <cjb> Has anyone seen problems with bluetooth on latest dapper?  I can boot 2.6.15-15, but 2.6.15-19 spawns gdm and then presumably tries to do something with hcid that never returns; I never get any gettys launched.
[10:32] <cjb> If I hit ctrl+alt+del on the empty tty1, the shutdown gets to stopping hcid and then hangs there.
[10:36] <lamont>  4) load ide-generic for legacy ISA systems
[10:36] <lamont> hrm...
[10:36] <mdz> cjb: try to confirm that hcid is in fact getting hung up, and then see if you can find out what's causing it
[10:36] <lamont> what do we do on ia64 boxes?
[10:37] <mdz> lamont: the same thing?
[10:37] <lamont> if we loaded any ide modules, i think we have to load it.
[10:37] <lamont> unless they fixed 2.6.15 to not do ide init (on ia64) in ide-generic...
[10:38] <mdz> lamont: read that "for" as "for the benefit of" not "only for"
[10:38] <lamont> ah, pok
[10:38] <infinity> Indeed.
[10:38] <lamont> s/p//
[10:38] <infinity> ide-generic is still required for anyone with root on /dev/hd* ... More or less.
[10:38] <infinity> So we load it last, after the rest of the world settles (or doesn't)
[10:39] <lamont> ciik
[10:39] <lamont> cool
[10:39] <mdz> infinity: this seems to have been called into question during the discussions today, but we're still loading it at the end
[10:42] <infinity> mdz: Yeah, I've read the (heated) backscroll a bit while attempting to wake up. :)
[10:43] <mjg59> lamont: That hasn't been the case for a while
[10:43] <mjg59> lamont: legacy IDE init is done when ide-generic is loaded, but anything else will be driven by the appropriate PCI driver
[10:44] <mjg59> Anyway, after discussing it with Scott, we've come to the conclusion that there are no races now
[10:44] <lamont> mjg59: the issue I ran into was with an ide hard drive...
[10:44] <mjg59> lamont: In the old days, you loaded PCI drivers and then had to load ide-generic in order to get the PCI drivers to bind
[10:44] <mjg59> That was a bug, and it's been fixed
[10:44] <lamont> 0000:a0:02.0 IDE interface: Silicon Image, Inc. (formerly CMD Technology Inc) PCI0649 (rev 02)
[10:44] <lamont> ah, ok.
[10:45] <lamont> for old days == something including breezy's 2.6.12?
[10:45] <mjg59> Probably, yeah
[10:45] <lamont> ok
[10:46] <mjg59> lamont: I don't seem to get ide-generic loaded at all now


[00:35] <roger_roger> hello - i have 2 disks with ubuntu installed on each one... i want to eliminate one of them but it is the one with grub on it - how do i move/copy/install grub on the other partition and make it the active one?
[00:37] <Bashing-om> roger_roger: Depends on the partioning scheme ; legacy of EFI ?
[00:41] <Bashing-om> partitioning*
[00:41] <roger_roger> yes - efi
[00:42] <Bashing-om> roger_roger: Is there a present /efi partition on the target drive ' sudo parted -l ' ?
[00:43] <roger_roger> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/Nu59fyN1/
[00:43] <roger_roger> grub is on the samsung and i want it on the intel
[00:50] <Bashing-om> roger_roger: msdos/gpt are not compatible. A thought - now might be a good time for a clean fresh install . But with a lot of hassle installing grub to the Intel drive in theory can be done - But going to take a lot of time and effort to set up to move the present partition to make up a efi/ partition. Not something I have experience with.
[00:51] <roger_roger> trying to avoid fresh install - i have so much going on there...
[00:53] <roger_roger> the samsung disk is the one i want to remove... i think i could do this by booting to a live cd but i don't know how... seems like i need to create a partition on the intel
[00:54] <Bashing-om> roger_roger: Can be done - but moving data ! always a chance of fault/failure - a backup of data is highly recommended. Others here with experience will have to advise if setting a efi/ partition at the end of the drive is possible, to reduce that failure threshhold.
[00:56] <roger_roger> no data to move - just want to create the parition in the 500mb free space on the intel drive, install grub and then tell the bios to go there
[00:57] <roger_roger> there's 538 of empty space at the beginning of the intel drive where the efi partition can go
[00:57] <roger_roger> 538m
[00:58] <Bashing-om> roger_roger: Thing is that making room ( at the start of the disk) will involve moving all the data within that partition). GPT will require that /efi partition.
[00:59] <roger_roger> there's no data - it is currently free space
[00:59] <Bashing-om> roger_roger: Sounds reasonable to me to use that unused space . makes things much easier.
[00:59] <roger_roger> yeah - i just don't know how :-)
[01:16] <Bashing-om> roger_roger: Wait here - for one who does have this experience to guide.
[01:17] <roger_roger> i created the partition with parted
[01:17] <roger_roger> whe i run grub-install /dev/nvme0n1p1 it says grub-install: error: cannot find EFI directory.
[01:29] <Bashing-om> EriC^^: ^^ are you available ?
[01:50] <jayjo-> is there a guide available to use qemu to boot tails, kali, or raspbian from a USB or SD card? Whether on ubuntu or on ubuntu server ?
[02:02] <MannyLNJ> I'm trying to setup a PXE server on a Ubuntu 18.06 VM. DHCP and DNS is ne by my pfSense VM. I have it configured to give out <IP_ADDRESS> as the tftp server. I am following the instructions at vandewerken.com.au/blog/linux/linux-pxe-server-in-heterogeneous-network-with-existing-dhcp-server-stage-1-memtest/ but I can't get dnsmasq to start I keep getting the error  failed to create listening socket for <IP_ADDRESS>: Address
[02:02] <MannyLNJ> already in use please help me
[02:11] <guiverc> MannyLNJ, 18.06?  Check your release, there was no Ubuntu release in 2018-June (18.06)
[02:12] <MannyLNJ> guiverc, one moment
[02:14] <MannyLNJ> I had my version wrong it is Ubuntu 18.04.5 LTS
[02:16] <CarlFK> MannyLNJ: https://debconf-video-team.pages.debian.net/ansible/usb_install/usb_quick_start.html
[02:16] <CarlFK> MannyLNJ there is a pxe server setup as one of the later steps
[02:17] <CarlFK> https://debconf-video-team.pages.debian.net/ansible/usb_install/usb_quick_start.html  [pxe] gw
[02:19] <CarlFK> It may be more work to sort out how it is built so you know what is going on, but it should build you a working server and I can answer questions about the process
[02:22] <MannyLNJ__> CarlFK, I will look that over. Thank you
[02:45] <fernando_> hola
[02:46] <fernando_> hi
[02:50] <arcatech> hello
[03:09] <rongx1an> I'm running ubuntu+fluxbox, many programs are dependent on gnome(xchat, audaciou etc). Is there a way to install them independently?
[03:46] <guiverc> rongx1an, I suspect it's not that they're dependent on GNOME itself, but the GTK+ toolkit ; eg. I see no GNOME depends in https://packages.ubuntu.com/focal/audacious
[03:48] <guiverc> I followed a few of the depends links & only say libgtk etc
[03:49] <guiverc> rongx1an, the obvious answer is using "--no-install-recommends"
[03:59] <rongx1an> quiverc, resolved, thanks a lot.
[05:48] <cluelessperson> I'm having difficulty with printing in ubuntu
[05:48] <cluelessperson> it never works for me
[05:48] <cluelessperson> The printer is there, the job says pending
[05:48] <cluelessperson> but never prints
[06:21] <nachtkriecher> anyone here know how to get ssh tunneling to work using an ssh config on the jump box?
[08:20] <wip_> hi! i got an ubuntu server 18.04.5 lts in an offline enviroment that needs a desktop. according to docs i can use ubuntu desktop 18.04.5 dvd, use apt-cdrom, apt update and apt install ubuntu-desktop. but it doesnt seem to find ubuntu-desktop package?
[08:22] <wip_> what am i missing here?
[08:35] <wip_> bump?
[08:51] <mrbell1984> why does it need a desktop? ubuntu server usually is used without the desktop, ubuntu desktop is used with a desktop
[08:57] <wip_> it need to run tools which requires X during install
[09:08] <neic> Is it correct that the GA kernels of LTS releases only receive CVE/Critical updates after the first two years of support? It is indicated at the bottom of this page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/LTSEnablementStack#Kernel.2FSupport.LTS_Kernel_Support_Schedule
[09:11] <guiverc> neic, I believe you're reading it incorrectly.  GA kernels are supported the full life of the product, as are HWE kernels.  The HWE kernel advances every 6 months for the first two years (ie. 18.04 advanced to use 18.10's kernel & stack, then 19.04's, then 19.10's before using 20.04's GA stack from then on).  That's the significance of the two years
[09:11]  * guiverc adds in my words anyway
[09:13] <guiverc> I believe I recall prior cases (12.04 maybe) where in the last few days of it's 5 year cycle, a CVE annoucement came out stating to get that patched you had to switch to HWE; but it was days before it's EOL anyway (significant if you were planning on using ESM though probably) -- but this is historical data as I remember it & it maybe missing details (wrong version etc)
[09:13] <neic> What is then happening with the 16.04.0 (v4.4) line at Apr 2018?
[09:14] <guiverc> The 4.4 kernel will be supported until 16.04 reaches EOL on 2021-April (5 years from release) unless you use ESM.  The HWE kernel for 16.04 is 4.15
[09:16] <lotuspsychje> wip_: are you possible to connect your machine to internet?
[09:17] <neic> guiverc, And there is no change to the level of support of 4.4 at april 2018?
[09:17] <wip_> lotuspsychje: no, that's what makes it a problem
[09:17] <lotuspsychje> wip_: https://phoenixnap.com/kb/how-to-install-a-gui-on-ubuntu
[09:18] <guiverc> neic, No.  4.4 is supported until 2021-April (5 years from it's release).  The HWE kernel for 16.04 reached it's final *bump* to the 18.04 kernel (4.15) and didn't advance any further.
[09:18] <lotuspsychje> wip_: think if you add the desktop cdrom in your sources you can pull off packages offline
[09:18] <neic> guiverc. Great. Thanks for clarifying.
[09:19] <guiverc> you're most welcome neic
[09:20] <wip_> lotuspsychje: ye, manage to mount filesystem.squashfs on the desktop dvd, dont yet know how to pull the packages from there
[09:21] <lotuspsychje> wip_: you might wanna talk to the #ubuntu-server volunteers howto do it cli
[09:21] <wip_> lotuspsychje: just adding the desktop dvd with apt-cdrom was not eniugh tho
[09:21] <wip_> lotuspsychje: ah thx
[09:22] <lotuspsychje> wip_: did you sudo apt update, after adding the dvd as source?
[09:22] <wip_> lotuspsychje: yea
[09:23] <wip_> you can pull gcc and a few pkgs from the desktop dvd, but no ubuntu-desktop
[09:24] <lotuspsychje> wip_: well you can install packages from the dvd, but yeah its limited offline for sure
[09:25] <lotuspsychje> not sure exactly wich packages and depends are included or not
[09:32] <iekfkk> hey guys
[09:32] <rana_ans> hi, anyone can help me with this error? https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/wpKZyG9DmV/
[09:34] <BlueShark> Hi. I have many snap packages installed, and the mounts are slowing the startup by around 30 seconds. Is there any way to fix this? Output of systemd-analyze: http://ix.io/2xCX
[10:20] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[10:28] <luna_> hi
[11:01] <sub526> Hi all, I'm having an Ubuntu 16.04.4 LTS system. It has the server image.  USB audio headset volume control does not work in my system. How to fix this issue on server image?
[11:31] <sub526> In Ubuntu server image which program listens for media keys and changes the volume?
[11:31] <marcoagpinto> sub526: Ubuntu 16.04 is unsupported
[11:31] <marcoagpinto> the most recent one is 20.04 LTS
[11:33] <ZPQ> marcoagpinto: Ubuntu 16.04 LTS is still supported
[11:33] <marcoagpinto> ohhhhhhhh
[11:33] <marcoagpinto> really?
[11:34] <ZPQ> marcoagpinto: yes
[11:34] <sub526> marcoagpinto: Sorry did not understood. USB headset won't work on Ubuntu 16.04?
[11:34] <marcoagpinto> sub526: What I am trying to say is that if you a more recent version, it will have better compatibility with hardware
[11:36] <ZPQ> sub526: what desktop are you running? Gnome, XFCE or what?
[11:37] <ZPQ> sub526: usb-headset is running as a separate sound card
[11:37] <sub526> ZPQ: I'm using the server image
[11:37] <ZPQ> sub526: no desktop?
[11:37] <sub526> ZPQ: yes, system detected it as sound card
[11:38] <sub526> ZPQ: We use server image, how to check what desktop my system is installed?
[11:39] <ZPQ> sub526: try "startx" in cli
[11:39] <ZPQ> sub526: then you see if you have it or not
[11:39] <sub526> ZPQ: The program 'startx' is currently not installed. You can install it by typing, shall I install it?
[11:41] <sub526> ZPQ: it looks like startx is part of xinit package.. My system don't have it.. Do I need to install it to use the USB headset?
[11:41] <ZPQ> sub526: if you are installing that you get x.org and things with it and that may not be a good idea (depends what you want to use on it)
[11:42] <ZPQ> sub526: why do you want to use usb-headset on a server?
[11:43] <ZPQ> sub526: and what program do you want to use
[11:43] <ZPQ> ?
[11:43] <sub526> ZPQ: In our project we are using the server image.. And this test scenario is part of automation tests
[11:43] <sub526> ZPQ: I'm using Alsa utilities aplay\arecord
[11:46] <ZPQ> sub526: server image is just a ubuntu image witout bloat as x.org and gnome/xfce/lxde + lots of programs for desktop use
[11:46] <ZPQ> without
[11:47] <ZPQ> sub526: I have not tried that program and I have not runned audio stuff in cli
[11:47] <rana_ans> EriC^^: hey remember me? :D  I got into a new problem, Ubuntu wont boot, shows this: https://ibb.co/0cpVXmg
[11:48] <ash_worksi> so I created a user and keys and used ssh-id-copy to get it up to the server. I ended up having to move the key to the new users home directory and chmod'ing it to allow a connection without a password. I have in the authorized_keys command="internal-sftp",no-blah-blah-blah, and the same settings as well in sshd_config for Match User TheNewUser... yet I can ssh into as that user using the password
[11:48] <Jakdaw> I've an Ubuntu 20.04 system that has been upgraded through many versions (since pre-systemd). I want to switch root from a SATA SSD to a newer NVME SSD so I also want to transition from legacy boot to UEFI.... so to do this I wanted to go into Single User Mdoe - but it seems that this fails(!) I think this might be due to the 'initscripts' package being installed (it appears /etc/init.d/single is being executed) - can anyone confirm whether this should be
[11:48] <Jakdaw> safe to remove?
[11:50] <ash_worksi> I would think I wouldn't be able to do that, *and* that it would only be able to download what's in the chrootdir
[11:50] <ash_worksi> (which doesn't actually include it's home)
[11:51] <ZPQ> sub526: normally ubuntu use PulsAudio, Alsa is legacy stuff
[11:53] <sub526> ZPQ: How to verify whether PulseAudio is enabled or not?
[11:53] <BluesKaj> ZPQ, alsa is not legacy pulseaudio runs on top of alsa
[11:53] <ZPQ> sub526: you can install pulseaudio-utils and that is Command line tools for the PulseAudio sound server
[11:54] <ZPQ> BluesKaj: maybe it does..?
[11:54] <rana_ans> who can help me here? https://ibb.co/0cpVXmg
[11:54] <BluesKaj> try running pulse without alsa :-)
[11:54] <ZPQ> BluesKaj: never tried :-)
[11:55] <ZPQ> sub526: try "pulsaudio" in cli
[11:56] <sub526> ZPQ: resulted "pulsaudio: command not found"
[11:57] <ZPQ> sub526: install it, and the cli-tools for it too
[11:58] <ZPQ> sub526: did you use " ?
[11:58] <ZPQ> sub526: it should be without "
[11:59] <rana_ans> I cant boot into ubuntu, its sending me into emergency mode, anyone who can help? : https://ibb.co/0cpVXmg
[11:59] <sub526> ZPQ: I tried without "
[12:01] <BluesKaj> sub526, install pulseaudio, pulseaudio-utils and pavucontrol
[12:02] <ZPQ> sub526: ok, then you may need to install as BluesKaj says, he was faster then me
[12:04] <sub526> ZPQ: BluesKaj: Installed pulseaudio, pulseaudio-utils and pavucontrol
[12:05] <ZPQ> sub526: you may have to reboot... I dont know if it's needed but doit to be sure
[12:11] <ZPQ> sub526: btw, pavucontrol is GTK+ based gui-thingy and he does not need it if he/she is running cli without desktop
[12:12] <ZPQ> BluesKaj: it was to you.. npt sub526
[12:14] <BluesKaj> yeah, I should have scrolled up to see his original question
[12:16] <ZPQ> BluesKaj: you can have x.org and desktop and gui-stuff on a server image, thats why I asked if he was running desktop stuff
[12:16] <BluesKaj> yes, I've done that, but it was long time ago
[12:17] <BluesKaj> before pulseaudio :-)
[12:17] <ZPQ> BluesKaj: sometimes it's best to start there if you not running netinstall
[12:18] <BluesKaj> some server users like to have a desktop gui thi
[12:18] <BluesKaj> though
[12:19] <ZPQ> BluesKaj: yes and it can be usefull but it depends on use
[12:19] <BluesKaj> o/c
[12:19] <rana_ans> EriC^^: you here?
[12:58] <ZPQ> hmm?
[13:00] <lotuspsychje> ZPQ: whats up?
[13:02] <ZPQ> lotuspsychje: not much right now... I tried to help someone with usb-headset in cli but he/she leaved
[13:02] <lotuspsychje> ah, kk
[13:03] <ZPQ> lotuspsychje: or else, I'm fine :-)
[13:07] <BluesKaj> usually when they don't return in a few mins one can assume the issue has been solved
[13:13] <ZPQ> BluesKaj: yepp
[13:19] <chaitanya122> Hi. when I am trying to install opencv with "pip3 install pytz opencv-python" it is showing the following error Command "python setup.py egg_info" failed with error code 1 in /tmp/pip-build-zus_w6e8/opencv-python/ so please help me in installing
[14:01] <Lutin> Is it still possible to install specific versions of software like nxinx with the first part of the versionnumbers ?
[15:01] <sub526> When I use amixer with the set command to set the volume(amixer set Master 50%) it failed with "amixer: Mixer attach default error: No such file or directory", What is amixer looking for that it does not find?
[15:02] <BluesKaj> try alsamixer
[15:02] <BluesKaj> in the terminal
[15:03] <sub526> BluesKaj: alsamixer resulted "cannot open mixer: No such file or directory"
[15:04] <BluesKaj> install alsamixer and alsa-utils
[15:05] <sub526> My system had the /usr/bin/alsamixer and alsa-utils package too.
[15:06] <BluesKaj> yeah, it's normally installed by default
[15:06] <BluesKaj> both are
[15:07] <sub526> I see that alsamixer binary is part of alsa-utils package..
[15:08] <sub526> dpkg -l | grep alsa resulted 2 packages, alsa-base & alsa-utils
[15:09] <sub526> Any other package need to be installed to use command line to change volume?
[15:32] <giaco> I've upgraded my server to 18.04 to 20.04 and it changed my interface names completely and my netplan was not applying anymore. I had to plug a monitor. No issues ad there's nothing important running there, but is this what an upgrade via dist-upgrade supposed to do?
[15:35] <BluesKaj> sub526, yes, but you can also use pavucontrol for master volume
[17:01] <sem2peie> just a question is qnap actually an OEM partner of ubuntu?
[17:02] <ses1984> i just had a system totally lock up, not saved by alt-sysreq REISUB
[17:03] <ses1984> i wanted to see if alt-sysreq REISUB actually worked, so the first thing i did after rebooting was to ctrl-alt-f1 and try to do it, and it says REI are not supported but it did happily reboot on SUB
[17:03] <ses1984> anyway, is there anything specific i should check for evidence on why it locked up in the first place?
[17:10] <oerheks> ses1984, journalctrl can sho what has happened, except if it was severe there might not be a line wrtten https://askubuntu.com/questions/1068720/what-can-i-do-to-find-the-crash-reason
[17:10] <sine0> hi folks. can someone help me, I have a headless ubuntu server, and I want to run a gui program, which can be invoked via cli, how can i check if or what I have for desktop installed
[17:10] <oerheks> or 'logs' in dash https://vitux.com/view-system-log-files-ubuntu/
[17:10] <sine0> im sure i had a go a while ago and might have installed something
[17:10] <oerheks> sem2peie, no idea, is it shown on qnap homepage?
[17:13] <sem2peie> https://www.qnap.com/en-us/news/2016/qnap-partners-with-canonical-to-enhance-nas-with-ubuntu-for-advanced-internet-of-things-development
[17:13] <sem2peie> e g
[17:16] <EriC^^> sine0: you can install any of the desktop meta packages and it will install everything needed
[17:17] <EriC^^> e.g kubuntu/lubuntu/xubuntu-desktop etc
[17:17] <sine0> EriC^^: ok is there a way to see if i have already done that, how do I check. I only have ssh access currently, but I can open ports
[17:17] <egrain> where do you put your quake pak files? i installed darkplaces hoping it would tell me where to put them. didn't though.
[17:18] <EriC^^> sine0: "dpkg -l | grep desktop" should list any installed ones
[17:18] <ioria> sine0, it's weird that you don't know that; but check ls /usr/share/xsessions/
[17:19] <sine0> ioria: sorry ive been stuck on windows for a few years now lost touch with linux stuff, just using cli
[17:19] <ioria> sine0, ls /usr/share/xsessions/
[17:19] <sine0> ls: cannot access '/usr/share/xsessions/': No such file or directory
[17:20] <sine0> EriC^^: looks like no: https://bpa.st/R2LQ
[17:21] <EriC^^> sine0: yeah nothing seems installed from the meta packages
[17:21] <sem2peie> https://www.qnap.com/de-de/partner/
[17:22] <EriC^^> sine0: you could still have packages such as 'xfce' or so, you could always see /var/log/apt/history.log to see what you installed before, if anything
[17:23] <sine0> right, i would go for light as the box is old from ex corp
[17:23] <sine0> https://bpa.st/5PHQ
[17:23] <sine0> grep xfce /var/log/apt/history.log << nothing
[17:24] <sine0> so can i install a desktop from remote command line ?
[17:29] <sine0> what do you say, should i do a bit of : sudo apt-get install xubuntu-desktop
[17:37] <EriC^^> sine0: it's up to you, that works
[17:37] <EriC^^> btw i didnt mean just xfce, there are other ones lxde blabla
[17:52] <sine0> yea i know of them
[17:52] <sine0> its all good im connected rdp to xfce cool etc
[17:52] <sine0> this was a lot easier than I remember it
[18:14] <rana_ans> EriC^^ : hey you here?
[18:14] <isomari> greetings, can anyone tell me how to completely kill tracker? I've tried every method I googled and damn thing still persists.
[18:16] <EriC^^> hey rana_ans
[18:16] <EriC^^> what's up?
[18:16] <rana_ans> stuck at adding windows 10 entry in boot menu
[18:17] <rana_ans> altho I can access windows 10 from grub>chainloader
[18:17] <rana_ans> no solution from google is working for me
[18:18] <EriC^^> rana_ans: why are you adding it manually?
[18:19] <rana_ans> because boot-repair isnt recognising it either
[18:19] <rana_ans> its in hd0, gpt3
[18:19] <rana_ans> its not showing in grub-customizer either
[18:22] <rana_ans> EriC^^: it was showing error sof-audio-pci 0000:00:1f.3: error: no reply expected , received 0x0
[18:22] <rana_ans> so I tried finding the solution for it
[18:23] <rana_ans> that was while booting into ubuntu
[18:23] <rana_ans> and it send me to emergency mode
[18:23] <rana_ans> normal start didnt work, I was stuck in a loop, so after not finding any solution on the web, I decided to reinstall ubuntu, now Im stuck at getting windows 10 boot entry ):
[18:24] <rana_ans> sent*
[18:26] <rana_ans> EriC^^: since you helped me with the same before, I thought to contact you, I kinda forgot how we fixed it last time :|
[18:31] <EriC^^> rana_ans: alright, type '(sudo parted -ls; cat /etc/default/grub /boot/grub/grub.cfg; ls -l /etc/grub.d) | nc termbin.com 9999"
[18:32] <rana_ans> is that closing bracket important?
[18:32] <summonner> they should match
[18:33] <rana_ans> bash: syntax error near unexpected token `)'
[18:34] <rana_ans> EriC^^: https://termbin.com/pg7j
[18:35] <rana_ans> Windows partition is in SSD which is 128GB, rest windows partitions are in HDD which is 1TB, also Ubuntu partition is in HDD as well
[18:37] <EriC^^> rana_ans: do sudo chmod -x for all the ones after 45_os-prober
[18:38] <EriC^^> also please pastebin 'cat /boot/grub/custom.cfg'
[18:38] <EriC^^> boot-repair makes such a mess of stuff sometimes with so many grub.d entries, eek
[18:38] <rana_ans> EriC^^: cat: /boot/grub/custom.cfg: No such file or directory
[18:38] <EriC^^> ok good
[18:39] <EriC^^> rana_ans: try 'sudo os-prober' in the terminal, any windows?
[18:39] <rana_ans> no that doesnt output anything
[18:39] <rana_ans> nothing
[18:39] <EriC^^> rana_ans: type 'ls -lR /boot/efi | nc termbin.com 9999'
[18:40] <rana_ans> https://termbin.com/vun6
[18:44] <EriC^^> rana_ans: windows isnt there, all the files are grubx64.efi and shimx64.efi and renamed
[18:44] <EriC^^> see the sizes
[18:44] <rana_ans> bootmgfw.efi?
[18:44] <EriC^^> rana_ans: right now you say you're able to boot windows manually using chainloader?
[18:44] <rana_ans> yes
[18:44] <EriC^^> 1334816 Sep 15 22:03 bootmgfw.efi that's shimx64.efi
[18:45] <rana_ans> I was gonna ask about that can we not add that chainloader(hd0,gpt3)/path to bootmgfw.efi in grub menu entry?
[18:46] <rana_ans> yeah I did chainloader (hd0,gpt3)/ and got to that file and entered boot and it went straight to WIndows
[18:46] <rana_ans> gpt3 is labelled 'OS' in grub terminal,
[18:46] <rana_ans> as ntfs fs
[18:47] <EriC^^> rana_ans: ah interesting
[18:48] <rana_ans> yeah I dont see any of that in ubuntu commands here
[18:48] <EriC^^> rana_ans: type 'sudo mount /dev/sda1 /mnt'
[18:48] <rana_ans> altho I can access all the drives in Ubuntu and my windows files
[18:48] <rana_ans> it returned nothing, anything further?
[18:49] <EriC^^> oh i see, i reread above, so windows is in an ssd
[18:49] <rana_ans> yeap
[18:49] <EriC^^> you're able to mount this ssd in ubuntu and access it?
[18:49] <rana_ans> yes
[18:50] <EriC^^> rana_ans: btw try a quick 'ls /mnt/bootmgfw.efi' is it there by any chance?
[18:50] <rana_ans> no such file or directory
[18:51] <EriC^^> rana_ans: i guess it's in the efi partition on the ssd
[18:51] <rana_ans> yeah
[18:51] <EriC^^> where is it mounted right now? try to mount it then type 'df | nc termbin.com 9999'
[18:51] <EriC^^> for some reason the ssd isnt showing in parted's output
[18:51] <EriC^^> only 1tb sda
[18:52] <rana_ans> yea I restarted my PC, it isn't showing now, altho I was able to access directories like program files and (x86) programDAta folder as well
[18:52] <rana_ans> mybad, didnt check it this time
[18:53] <EriC^^> odd
[18:53] <EriC^^> maybe if it shows up, if os-prober can mount and see the efi partition it should automatically add windows
[18:53] <rana_ans> I dont know, its not showing HDD either in other locations now
[18:54] <EriC^^> if os-prober shows it and update-grub doesn't, it might be something wrong with the grub.d/*os-prober file
[18:54] <EriC^^> rana_ans: try to restart to get it back i guess
[18:54] <rana_ans> Idk, is there a problem with the .iso coz it happens everytime
[18:54] <rana_ans> yeah I'll restart right now
[18:54] <EriC^^> if not, you can always add the entry manually for windows, if the ssd/os-prober doesnt pan out
[18:54] <EriC^^> ok
[18:54] <rana_ans> altho I downloaded that .iso from Ubuntu
[18:55] <rana_ans> ok if it doesnt work after I restart, help me add it manually, coz I have been trying for several hours with no luck
[18:55] <rana_ans> brb
[18:55] <EriC^^> alright
[18:59] <rana_ans> EriC^^: its showing 1 thing now, HDD only. No signs of SSD partition in other locations
[18:59] <rana_ans> Idk I did access it before tho
[19:02] <EriC^^> rana_ans: ok, type 'sudo chmod +x /etc/grub.d/47_custom_proxy'
[19:02] <EriC^^> then sudo nano /etc/grub.d/47_custom_proxy
[19:02] <EriC^^> add the lines you usually use to load windows at the bottom, "chainloader (hd0,gpt3)/....."
[19:02] <EriC^^> then save & exit, and sudo update-grub
[19:03] <rana_ans> should I add it at the end?
[19:04] <EriC^^> yes
[19:04] <rana_ans> I'm restart again and note the path then :D
[19:04] <rana_ans> I'm gonna*
[19:14] <rana_ans> EriC^^: hey, I need to add just the chainloader command at the end right?
[19:15] <rana_ans> nothing else?
[19:15] <EriC^^> rana_ans: up, that's it, then sudo update-grub
[19:15] <EriC^^> *yup
[19:15] <rana_ans> alright
[19:16] <rana_ans> it will show in grub-customizer or should I restart and check?
[19:16] <EriC^^> i have no idea, i think it should though
[19:17] <EriC^^> actually one sec
[19:17] <rana_ans> its giving me an error 'sudo update-grub'
[19:18] <EriC^^> sudo nano the file again, yeah i forgot about something
[19:18] <rana_ans> alright
[19:18] <EriC^^> add this instead, and modify the path if you need to, https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/TtPZtWvwHZ/
[19:19] <EriC^^> you can call it what you want, just "Windows" etc
[19:19] <rana_ans> ok
[19:19] <rana_ans> Im removing chainloader line as well
[19:19] <EriC^^> ok
[19:20] <rana_ans> shouldn't there be chainloader ($root)/path?
[19:21] <EriC^^> nope, the set root= takes care of it
[19:21] <rana_ans> alright
[19:21] <rana_ans> EriC^^: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/XsDpCkgT5x/
[19:23] <EriC^^> rana_ans: type 'cat /etc/grub.d/47_custom_proxy | nc termbin.com 9999"
[19:23] <rana_ans> this is how my file looks like: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/KWzc3JsSMr/
[19:23] <Lutin> gusy can't we install package like nginx 1.18.0 without -0ubuntu1 ?
[19:24] <rana_ans> EriC^^: https://termbin.com/40zq
[19:25] <rana_ans> insmod gpt and insmod ntfs? coz isnt windows ntfs based?
[19:25] <EriC^^> rana_ans: edit the file again, remove everything in it
[19:25] <rana_ans> ok
[19:26] <rana_ans> in everything like all the stuff even before the lines I added?
[19:26] <rana_ans> right
[19:26] <EriC^^> rana_ans: yes, everything
[19:26] <EriC^^> rana_ans: paste this instead in the file https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/FhrthWBszs/
[19:28] <rana_ans> I changed gpt3 to gpt2 coz that works to boot into windows
[19:29] <EriC^^> ok
[19:29] <rana_ans> successfully updated grub
[19:29] <rana_ans> Imma restart and check if it worked, BRB
[19:30] <EriC^^> alright
[19:34] <rana_ans> EriC^^: so that worked, can you give me that link again? Imma save everything this time which fixed it
[19:34] <EriC^^> sure, https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/FhrthWBszs/
[19:36] <rana_ans> thank you tho! (again) :D
[19:36] <EriC^^> no problem :D
[19:38] <rana_ans> have a great night brother! good night
[19:38] <oerheks> !cookie | EriC^^
[19:38] <rana_ans> yea he has helped me several times now
[19:39] <oerheks> have fun!
[19:39] <rana_ans> Bye
[19:39] <EriC^^> thanks, you too
[19:43] <rana_ans> EriC^^: btw I get this error sof-audio-pci 0000:00:1f.3: error: no reply expected, received 0x0
[19:43] <rana_ans> it showed this time as well, Im afraid next time I restart it will send me into emergency mode where I'll get stuck again
[19:43] <rana_ans> is it a problem with kernels or something?
[19:45] <EriC^^> rana_ans: doesn't seem really important, just a warning kind of
[19:46] <Exterminador> so, I'm a bit puzzled. when I installed Xubuntu in my new laptop (a Lenovo notebook), seems that I have 2 boot entries? if I press F7 while turning the laptop, it goes to the boot manager and I have 4 entries: Ubuntu, Windows Boot Manager and 2 disabled entries
[19:46] <rana_ans> lemme show u SS of what it does when I get stuck in loop
[19:46] <Exterminador> can someone shed a light why this happens? it's the 1st time I see such thing
[19:47] <EriC^^> Exterminador: that sounds like the uefi menu entries
[19:47] <oerheks> Exterminador,  sounds like an UEFI thingy, there is still a Windows entry there?
[19:47] <oerheks> !uefi
[19:47] <EriC^^> that's not in grub right Exterminador ?
[19:47] <Exterminador> nope, it's not in grub. it's the laptop boot manager, sort of speaking
[19:48] <rana_ans> EriC^^: https://ibb.co/0cpVXmg
[19:48] <EriC^^> Exterminador: that's normal, windows boot manager is standard i'd guess, and ubuntu added its own
[19:48] <oerheks> it is in the 1st partiton on the drive
[19:48] <Exterminador> in my older laptops I've never seen such boot manager. is that something kinda new? my oldest laptop is like 11y old
[19:49] <oerheks> yes, see the !uefi factoid
[19:49] <oerheks> legacy mbr > uefi
[19:49] <Exterminador> will do it right away. I was thinking that I've borked something :x
[19:50] <EriC^^> rana_ans: very odd, i think that's related to something else happening and not the error, i'd guess
[19:50] <oerheks> Exterminador, no, you did not wipe the disk fully.
[19:50] <oerheks> but that is oke
[19:50] <EriC^^> rana_ans: right now while you're booted you can try 'grep -i error /var/log/boot.log' i guess it might also have happened during the current boot
[19:50] <rana_ans> it shows that error several times in the list journalctl -xb
[19:51] <rana_ans> yes it did, thats why I came to you right away
[19:51] <EriC^^> rana_ans: could it be the hdd is on it's way out?
[19:51] <Exterminador> oerheks: indeed, I'm dual booting xD
[19:51] <rana_ans> wdym? :c
[19:51] <EriC^^> try a smart test on the hdd using sudo smartctl -a /dev/sda    (from smartmontools package)
[19:52] <EriC^^> rana_ans: that emergency error is usually when the fs is corrupted and stuff, and since its intermittent, seems might be hardware related
[19:52] <rana_ans> smatctl command not found
[19:52] <EriC^^> anyways a smart test should show the hdd health easily
[19:52] <rana_ans> ok
[19:53] <EriC^^> rana_ans: sudo apt install smartmontools && sudo smartctl -a /dev/sda | nc termbin.com 9999
[19:54] <EriC^^> rana_ans: anything in /etc/fstab that is out of the ordinary? any network mounts or something
[19:54] <rana_ans> Im waiting on that smartmontools, then Ill check that
[19:57] <rana_ans> EriC^^: https://termbin.com/h1jsd
[19:58] <rana_ans> how do I check /etc/fstab? ls /etc/fstab?
[19:58] <EriC^^> rana_ans: smart test looks good, cat /etc/fstab
[19:59] <rana_ans> EriC^^: https://termbin.com/zh7s4
[20:02] <EriC^^> rana_ans: looks ok
[20:03] <rana_ans> alright, I'll contact you if I get stuck in the loop then. Thanks a lot!!!
[20:03] <EriC^^> rana_ans: i think when the emergency mode happens, see the logs of that boot to see exactly what happened, maybe you have to turn on persistent log to see it
[20:03] <kur1j> Can someone tell me where in the world a system I have is getting its DNS information? My wifi device is setting <IP_ADDRESS> as the DNS in /etc/resolv.conf instead of leaving it as <IP_ADDRESS>. Nothing in /etc/system/resolved.conf
[20:03] <rana_ans> I checked journalctl -xb it showed only red lines which had sof-audio-pci only
[20:03] <rana_ans> nothing else
[20:04] <EriC^^> rana_ans: right now?
[20:05] <rana_ans> no no not right now, the last time I got stuck like in the morning today
[20:06] <EriC^^> if you type now journalctl -xb | grep -i "error.*audio"    what happens
[20:07] <EriC^^> sorry "audio.*error"
[20:07] <rana_ans> EriC^^: https://termbin.com/loq1
[20:08] <rana_ans> and they are all red in terminal
[20:08] <EriC^^> ok, so the current boot also has it
[20:08] <rana_ans> yeah, its prolly gonna get stuck if I restart
[20:09] <EriC^^> next time the emergency mode happens, try journalctl -xb   in the maintenance shell if that shows any info
[20:09] <rana_ans> yeah it shows these in red
[20:09] <rana_ans> nothing other than audio in red
[20:09] <rana_ans> I check it last time it happened
[20:10] <rana_ans> can this be fixed?
[20:10] <EriC^^> probably the emergency mode is due to something else though, these are just warnings that will keep on happening
[20:10] <EriC^^> it's saying that it didnt expect any reply, but it got one, that's all
[20:10] <rana_ans> alright
[20:11] <rana_ans> I cant pastebin the data from there, so I will try getting SS of all red lines then if it happens
[20:11] <rana_ans> I hope not
[20:11] <EriC^^> rana_ans: if you want enable the persistent storage of journal so that you can lookk back on the bad boot once it boots
[20:12] <EriC^^> 1sec
[20:12] <rana_ans> ok
[20:12] <EriC^^> sudo mkdir -p /var/log/journal && sudo systemd-tmpfiles --create --prefix /var/log/journal
[20:13] <rana_ans> done
[20:13] <EriC^^> alright, that should do it
[20:13] <rana_ans> thanks again!
[20:13] <EriC^^> no problem
[20:13] <rana_ans> good night!
[20:13] <EriC^^> thanks, you too
[20:26] <abyssangel> pls how do i reconnect my X tty from broken socket
[20:42] <geosmile> my bluetooth is not working on my machine- any ideas on how to debug this?
[20:44] <geosmile> now its working
[20:44] <geosmile> hmmm
[21:05] <jonfen> this works "ssh jonfen@machine 'bash -s' < ./install.sh" but how can i pass a parameter into install.sh?
[21:26] <bipul> Hello,
[21:26] <bipul> I  have .vdi file and i would like to mount it on /mnt does anyone have any idea? how to do this?
[21:29] <rfm> bipul, virtualbox has vboximg-mount now for this.  https://www.virtualbox.org/manual/UserManual.html#vboximg-mount   #vbox is probably a better place to talk about it than #ubuntu
[21:31] <bipul> okay thanks rfm
[22:07] <icarnor> hi i have a question
[22:07] <icarnor> hopefully someone can answer it
[22:08] <arcatech> why not just ask?
[22:08] <icarnor> i was in ssh editing a file on nano. then my wifi glitched and i lost all my changed. can i get those back?
[22:08] <Texas> icarnor: You can, actually
[22:08] <Texas> Is the nano process still running?
[22:09] <icarnor> idk
[22:10] <Texas> icarnor: What is the output of 'ps -aux | grep nano'?
[22:10] <icarnor> idk
[22:10] <Texas> icarnor: Run it, please. And then send the output to a pastebin.
[22:10] <icarnor> wtf is a pastebin
[22:11] <Texas> icarnor: https://pastebin.com
[22:11] <icarnor> ooooh
[22:12] <icarnor> icarnor      1392727  0.0  0.3   9648  3236 pts/1    T    18:09   0:00 nano
[22:12] <Texas> icarnor: Now type 'kill 1392727'
[22:13] <Texas> And there should be a file called '<filename>.save' in the directory where the file was located
[22:13] <icarnor> wtf is a directory?
[22:14] <Texas> icarnor: It's like a folder in your filesystem.
[22:14] <icarnor> ooh
[22:14] <icarnor> so like cd
[22:14] <oerheks> icarnor, please watch your language, keep this channel family friendly, thanks
[22:14] <Texas> icarnor: cd is short for change directory
[22:14] <icarnor> ohhh
[22:15] <Texas> icarnor: Did it work?
[22:15] <icarnor> yes
[22:15] <icarnor> thank you texas
[22:15] <icarnor> ur a lievsaver
[22:15] <icarnor> bye now
[22:23] <bipul> How to solve this umet dependencies
[22:23] <bipul> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/mF9th3ZHYf/
[22:23] <bipul> .dpkg libvpx5
[22:23] <bipul> .help
[22:23] <balun> [help] my nice commands are sendcoins, balance, richest, lookup, admin, help, more, owo, modules, findalt, maskfind, radioremind, rpn, rt, keep, addkeep, grabkeep, rmkeep, fact, addfact, rmfact
[22:24] <oerheks> did you properly update before install?
[22:24] <bipul> yes
[22:24] <bipul> apt-get update
[22:26] <oerheks> And on what ubuntu version, virtualbox from our repos?
[22:26] <bipul> Ubuntu 20.04 LTS
[22:28] <bipul> I'm using it from bionic deb [arch=amd64] https://download.virtualbox.org/virtualbox/debian bionic contrib
[22:28] <bipul> since they don't have for focal
[22:28] <oerheks> must be the 3rd party repo then,  libvpx5 does not exist anymore
[22:28] <oerheks> good luck!
[22:29] <bipul> what the heck
[22:29] <oerheks> it is 6 now, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/focal/amd64/libvpx6
[22:30] <oerheks> and libsdl-ttf exists.. https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/focal/+package/libsdl-ttf2.0-0
[22:31] <bipul> oerheks Do you know how to mount .vdi ?
[22:31] <oerheks> yes, virtual box does that
[22:32] <hggdh> bipul: also, there IS a vistualbox on Focal: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/7SWwqYKJbq/
[22:32] <bipul> okay but i need to access  it to make changes
[22:33] <bipul> I'm looking for this command vboximg-mount
[22:35] <oerheks> In this small tutorial, I will explain how to simply mount a VDI image to Ubuntu" .. it is not that simple.. https://www.cyrill-gremaud.ch/mount-virtualbox-image-drive-on-ubuntu-vdi/
[22:35] <oerheks> why not use kvm all along..
[22:36] <bipul> because i don't know kvm
[23:44] <lapion> How can I disable nvidia drivers for a single boot if nomodet and modeset.nvidia=0 does not work
[23:46] <lapion> I think systemctl ignores the modeset option.
[23:48] <lapion> nomodeset-option


  Whereas it takes you minutes will takes me weeks :D
[23:13] <TJ-> the trouble is this will take ME weeks too
[23:14] <TJ-> I attacked it once before and gave up after 2 weeks of head-banging, which was why i decided to keep those laptops on 15.10
[23:15] <TJ-> it just annoys me SO much that developers replace an existing tool but don't implement it's core functionality, causing so much pain with the regressions. This has been going on since 2012 - 5 years!
[23:15] <TJ-> and it all comes down to Poeterring saying "ooo, I don't really like the idea of keyscrip="
[23:16] <TJ-> see https://github.com/systemd/systemd/pull/3007#issuecomment-214313933
[23:16] <Bashing-om> TJ-: Ouch .. Well, that is one way that you do know . Bang on that wall 'til it breaks .
[23:17] <TJ-> It's the arrogance that gets to me most; tears up something people rely on and then says they won't replace it
[23:25] <Bashing-om> TJ-: ^ you summed it up well . I sire miss the days of " do one thing, and do it well " back then I could at lest keep up .
[23:25] <Bashing-om> sure*
[23:26] <TJ-> yes, and the thing is, I do like most of what systemd does and the way it is designed, but they seem to keep wanting to Borg everything rather than focus on completing what they've already started
[23:27] <TJ-> I love journald/journalctl instead of log files, it makes detailed analysis so much easier with each service/process log/stdout in a separate stream so you don't need to wade through distracting stuff
[23:27] <TJ-> but it's like having kids working on... an initial burst of enthusiasm as they take over some existing tool, then they get bored and don't complete the job
[23:28] <TJ-> I've got an Android phone with latest LineageOS on that, since last weeks update, is constantly rebooting itself ... about 10 times so far in the last 1/2 hour sitting on the desk not being touched!
[23:29] <TJ-> I swear technology is not worth it any more, mainly due to terrible developers
[23:29] <Bashing-om> Good and bad in all things - nothing here is perfect. We do have our work cut out for us . I am fortunate that I can choose what to cut .
[23:30] <TJ-> I think i'm going to go away for another 2 years and build another house - it's much more rewarding and stress free :)
[23:31] <oerheks> smart phone, i am dumb
[23:31] <TJ-> they've not even phones anymore really, they're PDAs (some not as good as the ones I had in the 1990s) with a phone as an afterthought
[23:32] <Bashing-om> I tell you the truth, I sure liked inittab .. Way back when .
[23:32] <oerheks> i am offered a course mindfullness through our social services, conversation ended when i asked: what drugs do i need to take for that ?
[23:32] <TJ-> it made sense in the single CPU/single core days but now we've got 32-core desktop CPUs it needs something that can prevent race conditions which systemd does well
[23:33] <TJ-> oerheks: :)
[23:34] <Bashing-om> TJ-: Yep. in the name of progress - faster is better ?
[23:34] <TJ-> I sure love it :)
[23:34] <TJ-> not faster but being able to have multiple processes working in parallel rather than having to keep on context-switching on the same CPU (which is very wasteful)
[23:36] <Bashing-om> TJ-: Progress : I run on old hardware - that I am quite intimate with . Faster == SSD and oerheks, lotus and ducasse can attest it took us 6 months to get it working properly !
[23:37] <TJ-> Bashing-om: maybe a symptom of the older hardware though :)
[23:38] <Bashing-om> IS ! .. back then that hardware had no concept of AHCI :)
[23:38] <oerheks> care bout privacy? don't use the internet :-D
[23:39] <TJ-> I've got systems here for doing forensics/data recovery for really old types of media (remember 5 1/4" floppies? Zip drives? MFM hard drives ? I have some trouble getting some of their controllers to work on modern motherboards so I have to keep older stuff. I think my oldest in regular use is an Asus A7M-266D Dual Athlon MP mobo from 2002
[23:39] <oerheks> I love older hardware, running ubuntu on an ancient i3 processor
[23:40] <TJ-> The problem with older 32-bit CPUs is ensuring the packaged kernels will boot on them
[23:41] <TJ-> I have a crate of unused mobos going back to the early 90s though, along with a crate of various adapters ISA, PCI, for networking and disk controller, just in case


[03:40] <BillingMeSoftly> hi
[03:40] <BillingMeSoftly> why does firefox not start all of a sudden
[03:40] <BillingMeSoftly> ?
[03:41] <BillingMeSoftly> I run strace on it, and find that it gets stuck waiting in loops of  "futex(0x557f6c1e7e08, FUTEX_WAIT_PRIVATE, 0, NULL) = -1 EAGAIN (Resource temporarily unavailable)
[03:41] <BillingMeSoftly> futex(0x557f6c1e7e08, FUTEX_WAIT_PRIVATE, 0, NULL) = 0"
 Am I the only one that gets random crashes on kde 22.04 what is that all about?
 And is it advisable to move to 22.10
 Hi! I completely forgot to right you back: the wired guard is not up by the provider script. It creates the vpn + the ip v6 connection. (re @linuxophil: Maybe. I am using a vpn config file to a private router which acts as the wireguard server. Works beautifully on all things apple. And semi beautifully with the cli on Kubuntu.)
 If you are curious, i use Surf Shark. They have trials, if you want to explore.
 Hey Ricardo! I am afraid, I do not understand that statement. (re @rcpp85: Hi! I completely forgot to right you back: the wired guard is not up by the provider script. It creates the vpn + the ip v6 connection.)
 You wanted to setup a VPN. I said I would see how mine was done, since I use one frequently. But mine was set with o provider set up tool. (re @linuxophil: Hey Ricardo! I am afraid, I do not understand that statement.)
 My provider is surfshark. They have trials and you could use it to see how they do it.
 Ah, I see. Thanks Ricardo! (re @rcpp85: You wanted to setup a VPN. I said I would see how mine was done, since I use one frequently. But mine was set with o provider set up tool.)
 I have resigned myself to using the cli for now. I actually found a GUI tool but didn’t try it out because I already have both my machines set up now and I am afraid to play with them again 😉
 Wise choice!
[10:27] <BillingMeSoftly> Hello, I'm on Kubuntu 22.10 and did an apt-get dist-upgrade in the last couple of days.  Why does firefox not start all of a sudden?
[10:27] <BillingMeSoftly> I run strace on it, and find that it gets stuck waiting in loops of  "futex(0x557f6c1e7e08, FUTEX_WAIT_PRIVATE, 0, NULL) = -1 EAGAIN (Resource temporarily unavailable)
[10:27] <BillingMeSoftly> futex(0x557f6c1e7e08, FUTEX_WAIT_PRIVATE, 0, NULL) = 0"
[10:59] <tomreyn> ^c/p'd to #ubuntu
[12:54] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[14:56] <user|58> system requirement


[12:53] <Q-FUNK> howdy! I need help with syncpackage. it keeps on asking for a keyring password.  for which keyring exactly?
[12:54] <wgrant> Q-FUNK: If you're not running in a supported desktop environment, launchpadlib will use its own keyring.
[12:55] <Q-FUNK> wgrant: I'm running this in an ubuntu+1 chroot. where would that keyring be then?
[12:57] <Q-FUNK> wgrant: i.e. in which file is it stored?
[12:57] <wgrant> Q-FUNK: It used to be ~/crypted_pass.cfg, I think, but I think python-keyring uses something less insane now.
[12:57] <wgrant> It's possible it could live in ~/.cache/launchpadlib nowdays
[12:58] <Q-FUNK> .launchpadlib/api.launchpad.net/cache/ seems to exist, but it's empty.
[13:00] <wgrant> There's no credentials dirs anywhere under ~/.launchpad?
[13:00] <wgrant> Er, ~/.launchpadlib
[13:01] <Q-FUNK> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6226709/
[13:03] <Q-FUNK> wgrant: inputing a (presumably new) password upon getting the prompt doesn't help.
[13:04] <wgrant> Q-FUNK: And there's no ~/.cache/launchpadlib or ~/.config/launchpadlib?
[13:05] <Q-FUNK> wgrant: none.
[13:05] <wgrant> Oh, syncpackage, missed that
[13:05] <wgrant> It uses its own ubuntutools keyring, I suspect
[13:05] <wgrant> Or something
[13:06] <Q-FUNK> it uses launchpadlib, that much is clear.
[13:06] <wgrant> Right, but IIRC it overrides the keyring defaults.
[13:07] <Q-FUNK> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6226729/
[13:12] <wgrant> Q-FUNK: Aha, looks like it might have moved to ~/.local/share/python_keyring/crypted_pass.cfg
[13:13] <Q-FUNK> wgrant: is that documented anywhere?  it would be useful, in case someone needs to reset their password. :)
[13:14] <wgrant> I don't think so. python-keyring keeps moving it :/
[13:39] <Q-FUNK> right. so deleting ~/.local/share/python_keyring/crypted_pass.cfg and setting a new one finally worked.


[19:17] <bashfulrobot> Hi everyone. I was pretty sure there was a technical board meeting slated for today. But when having a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda - the date is for December. I wanted to confirm that   it is in fact slated for today in just under 2 hours from now.
[19:21] <bashfulrobot> Also noticed that the link to the "fridge calendar" links over to a page not found. Links to: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar, but found this one: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Fridge/Calendar So I'll update that as well.
[19:22] <mdeslaur> bashfulrobot: hi! No, the techboard meeting was on tuesday (it's always on tuesdays)
[19:22] <mdeslaur> bashfulrobot: unfortunately most of the board were travelling, so we didn't have quorum
[19:22] <mdeslaur> bashfulrobot: so the meeting was cancelled
[19:22] <bashfulrobot> ah, ok!
[19:22] <mdeslaur> next meeting is on the 30th
[19:23] <mdeslaur> the date and time is usually listed here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
[19:23] <mdeslaur> (though looks like nobody updated it, I'll update it now)
[19:24] <bashfulrobot> ok. I'll keep my item on the agenda (LTS application)... yeah - that is what prompted me to check in.
[19:24] <bashfulrobot> I also modified the link above that was broken as well mdeslaur.
[19:24] <mdeslaur> thanks
[19:25] <bashfulrobot> I think I also thought it was today becasue I likely pulled the "day" and glossed over the date knowing the 19th of dec had already passed. :-P
[19:25] <bashfulrobot> mdeslaur - appreciate the clarification.
[19:26] <mdeslaur> np!


[01:11] <doug> is there a way i can tell what version of a package 12.04 is likely to be tracking?
[01:12] <psusi> doug, what do you mean?
[01:13] <psusi> you can find out what version of a package is currently in 12.04 by looking it up on launchpad.net
[01:14] <doug> cool, that might be what i'm looking for
[01:14] <doug> hm, looking at https://launchpad.net/qtwebkit
[01:15] <psusi> launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qtwebkit
[01:15] <doug> > There is no current release for this source package in Ubuntu.
[01:16] <psusi> the source package appears to be gqwebkit-source
[01:16] <psusi> qtwebkit-source rather
[01:17] <psusi> you can also use packages.ubuntu.com
[01:20] <doug> psusi++
[01:32] <psusi> is there any sort of glib utility function somewhere to parse a string for backspace characters and process them?
[02:55] <Corey> I'm seeing something odd-- I install a package that I built, and it seems to install python libraries twice, once in /usr/share/pyshared/salt/, and again in /usr/lib/pymodules/python2.6/salt/.  The latter isn't shown at all by dpkg -c, and -S says no package owns it-- how do I effectively troubleshoot this?
[02:55] <Corey> The .install file for this package reads simply usr/lib/python2*/dist-packages/salt/
[03:19] <jalcine> So that package I had issues compiling with, its source uses a C++ safe name, whereas the it's header doesn't.
[03:19] <jalcine> Definitely going to give my two cents upstream.
[03:20] <Corey> Oh jeez, one's a symlink.  Not sure where it came from...
[06:24] <tiagoscd> hi
[06:24] <vibhav> hi
[06:24] <vibhav> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/deluge/+bug/852454 is fixed upstream
[06:24] <vibhav> What do I need to do with it?
[06:24] <vibhav> oh wait
[06:25] <vibhav> I need to submit a debdiff for it, right?
[06:25] <tiagoscd> I'm fixing the first bug (#750134) in Ubuntu, and I like to get help to build and test package, as well how I can send it to LP
[06:25] <tiagoscd> *my first bug
[06:26] <tiagoscd> can anyone help me?
[06:26] <vibhav> tiagoscd: yes
[06:27] <vibhav> tiagoscd: Can you give me the url of this bug?
[06:27] <tiagoscd> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+source/ubiquity/+bug/750134
[06:27] <vibhav> have you fixed this bug in the source ?
[06:29] <tiagoscd> yes, i got their code via apt-get source and resized the image to an acceptable size
[06:29] <vibhav> tiagoscd: now cd to the source via the terminal
[06:29] <tiagoscd> vibhav: ok, done
[06:30] <vibhav> tiagoscd: execute "debuild -S"
[06:31] <tiagoscd> vibhav, ok
[06:32] <vibhav> tiagoscd: did debuild succeed?
[06:33] <tiagoscd> well, i need to review my GPG key
[06:33] <tiagoscd> vibhav, just a moment
[06:45] <tiagoscd> vibhav, I'm running debuild -S now
[06:49] <tiagoscd> vibhav, I need to modify changelog first?
[06:51] <vibhav> yes
[06:51] <vibhav> dch -i
[06:51] <vibhav> and then put the change you did
[06:51] <vibhav> The format is
[06:51] <vibhav> * Fixed icon (LP: #BUGNO)
[06:52] <vibhav> developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/fixing-a-bug.html
[06:53] <tiagoscd> * Fix size of the "Install Ubuntu" pixmap. (LP: #750134)
[06:53] <vibhav> yes
[06:53] <tiagoscd> done
[06:53] <vibhav> now run debuild -S
[06:53] <vibhav> (again, Since yo uhave modified the changelog)
[06:53] <vibhav> you *
[06:53] <tiagoscd> ok
[06:55] <tiagoscd> signfile ubiquity_2.9.27ubuntu1.dsc Tiago Hillebrandt<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[06:56] <tiagoscd> gpg: ignorado "Tiago Hillebrandt<EMAIL_ADDRESS>chave secreta não disponível
[06:56] <tiagoscd> debsign: gpg error occurred!  Aborting...
[06:56] <tiagoscd> my GPG key is fine, I created it just now
[06:57] <vibhav> never mind
[06:57] <vibhav> now "cd .."
[06:58] <tiagoscd> ok
[06:58] <tiagoscd> done
[06:59] <vibhav> "ls | grep dsc"
[07:00] <vibhav> paste the output
[07:00] <tiagoscd> ubiquity_2.9.27.dsc
[07:00] <tiagoscd> ubiquity_2.9.27ubuntu1.dsc
[07:00] <tiagoscd> only this
[07:00] <vibhav> debdiff ubiquity_2.9.27.dsc ubiquity_2.9.27ubuntu1.dsc
[07:00] <vibhav> oops
[07:00] <vibhav> dont use this command
[07:00] <tiagoscd> ok
[07:00] <vibhav> debdiff ubiquity_2.9.27.dsc ubiquity_2.9.27ubuntu1.dsc > patch.debdiff
[07:01] <tiagoscd> done
[07:02] <vibhav> submit this patch to Launchpad
[07:02] <vibhav> IN the comments section of the bug you are fixing
[07:04] <tiagoscd> vibhav, the image that I've resized will be putted into this patch?
[07:05] <tiagoscd> done
[07:05] <tiagoscd> LP ask me if this file is a patch
[07:05] <tiagoscd> can I confirm?
[07:19] <tiagoscd> Can anyone continue helping me?
[07:19] <tiagoscd> Now debuild -S was worked
[07:19] <tiagoscd> Successfully signed dsc and changes files
[12:00] <plipp> hi guys and guysettes, I'm looking at "Packaging New Software" and following the steps. The application (kqrcode) is missing a few dependencies, among others 'libqrencode' as I had a missing file  'qrcodec.h'
[12:01] <plipp> Anyway, the page tells me to look the file up at 'packages.ubuntu.com' to find the missing package. And then it goes on to install libqrencode-dev.  However, I failed in finding that package on the site. Tried searching on different releases and what not.
[12:02] <plipp> clarification: I failed to find any package that contains the file 'qrcodec.h'
[12:03] <directhex> http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?searchon=contents&keywords=qrcodec.h&mode=exactfilename&suite=precise&arch=any
[12:04] <plipp> directhex: Yep, that yields in "Sorry, your search gave no results."
[12:04] <directhex> yep.
[12:05] <plipp> oh.
[12:05] <plipp> :)
[12:06] <plipp> it's actually not in libqrencode-dev either, no..
[12:06] <plipp> hmm
[12:06] <jtaylor> qrencode does nto have that file
[12:06] <jtaylor> neither the packge nor upstream
[12:07] <plipp> jtaylor: Yes, I realized that. I was merely assuming that the page was correct and I was wrong.
[12:07] <plipp> But as always, assumption is the mother of a lot
[12:08] <directhex> i believe it's "assumption is The Black Goat of the Woods with a Thousand Young"
[12:08] <directhex> or something
[12:08] <plipp> Fun fact: I know I'm pretty much always wrong. So even now when I was right, I ended up being wrong.
[14:03] <Pikkachu> hi, is it a practice in raw patch management to specify dependencies as comments within the patches?
[14:04] <Pikkachu> for example, you are applying a few patches to an application, some are mandatory (early access to bug fixes) some are not (rejected features)
[14:05] <Pikkachu> but you do not want the non-mandatory ones in a patch queue, because they're not supposed to be run into a given order
[14:05] <Pikkachu> someone else may select which non-manadatory patches to apply
[14:07] <jtaylor> you could put them as comments in the quilt series file
[14:11] <valdur55> Hey! Lubuntu misses cups package.  Printer managemend doesn't find printer server
[14:18] <tiagoscd> hi
[14:26] <tiagoscd> I fixed the bug #750134 and already built it (debuild -S). Now I need to know how to test the app and after how to submit it to LP
[14:26] <tiagoscd> Can anyone help me?
[14:26] <tiagoscd> My first bug fix :)
[15:03] <Pikkachu> jtaylor: I think I'll just reference the dependencies within the patch
[15:06] <tumbleweed> that sounds sensible
[15:06] <tumbleweed> breaking up the quilt series into blocks of different types of patches is also helpful
[15:09] <Pikkachu> I'm sorry I think I'm being offtopic, I asked here just because I know you make patch management, not because I'm actually in ubuntu and building a package (I don't know what "quilt" is)
[15:10] <tumbleweed> quilt is the program we use to managed debian/patches
[15:10] <tumbleweed> *manage
[15:10] <Pikkachu> cool, I tried to build a package but failed miserably, documentation is extremely complex and long
[15:11] <Pikkachu> in my opinion of course
[15:11]  * tumbleweed avoids getting dragged into that discussion again
[15:13] <Pikkachu> well, as for the question tbh I don't think the term dependency apply completely given that one patch would not need other to be applied to achieve its intent, it's really just the technical problem of line references.
[15:13] <Pikkachu>  Currently I have 5 patches here but none of them conflict regarding line references, so I'm not worrying that much
[15:14] <tumbleweed> I woludn't call that a dependency then
[15:14] <Pikkachu> yeah dependency is not really a good term
[15:15] <tumbleweed> if they apply and work on their own, you don't need to worry at all
[15:15] <Pikkachu> I think maybe I'll just put them in a queue and if one wants to apply specific patches, then I let them manually changing the patches
[15:16] <Pikkachu> yeah currently they can be applied in any order
[15:17] <Pikkachu> but in the future two could change the same file but one affect the reference used by the other, in that case is that I think I'll just put them in a queue
[15:19] <Pikkachu> btw I found out a neat way to produce a patch log using the patches themselves, I just do something like:
[15:20] <Pikkachu> +++PATCHES
[15:20] <Pikkachu> @@ -0,0 +1 @@
[15:20] <Pikkachu> + Description of this patch
[17:26] <Laney> Woe is "oh crap, nobody merged haskell-devscripts yet, did they?"
[18:00] <iulian> Laney: Oups. That was on my todo list. Completely forgot about that. It was the next package to do after GHC. :(
[18:00] <iulian> I'm doing it now.
[18:00] <Laney> I did it
[18:00] <Laney> but it means the syncs I already did are busted
[18:00] <iulian> Pfft.
[18:01] <Laney> so if you fancy uploading some rebuilds ^o)
[18:45] <Laney> ok, doing them myself
[18:46]  * Laney accidently made twice as much popcorn as was intended
[18:58] <iulian> Laney: Will do.
[19:15] <Laney> iulian: reuploading everything I synced
[19:15] <Laney> sorry buildds :(
[19:15] <Laney> y
[21:11] <jtaylor> anyone aware of a reason why asterik is not up to date with debian?
[21:12] <jtaylor> just looked at the release notes and it only has a bunch of fixes so its probably worth it to get that into precise
[21:12] <Pikkachu> hi, has anyone ever used ubuntu font in windows?
[21:16] <quidnunc> Anyone know how cabal-debian generates dependencies?
[21:46] <shadeslayer> jtaylor: I don't see any package called asterik
[21:46] <jtaylor> asterisk
[21:46] <shadeslayer> oh cool
[21:47] <jtaylor> I think its a good idea to stick as close to upstream as possible, it had a security update each release
[21:48] <shadeslayer> well, 2 things, it'll need a merge and someone will have to test it on armhf
[21:49] <jtaylor> why the latter?
[21:49] <shadeslayer> "Fix building on armhf with debian/patches/armhf-fixes:"
[21:49] <jtaylor> debian has armhf now too
[21:49] <jtaylor> it built there
[21:49] <jtaylor> the patch can be removed half
[21:49] <jtaylor> the configure part does not seem to be in debian
[21:50] <jtaylor> though it does not appear to break the build
[21:50] <shadeslayer> well, I'm not entirely sure that stuff that builds on debian armhf will also build on ubuntu armhf
[21:50] <jtaylor> the patch is tiny, so probably was never a large issue
[21:50] <shadeslayer> possibly, I haven't looked at the patch, just looking at the changelog
[21:51] <jtaylor> I'll push my merge in a moment
[21:51] <shadeslayer> cool :)
[21:51] <jtaylor> I kept all the really old hardy stuff
[21:51] <jtaylor> can probably be dropped as I doubt it still works ^^
[21:51] <jtaylor> some backport stuff
[21:53] <jtaylor> friggin bzr and its humongous andwidth requirements!
[21:54] <shadeslayer> hahaha ...
[21:56] <shadeslayer> cya
[22:36] <jtaylor> ok apparently updating is not such a good idea, well the merge can still be used for +1 then
[22:50] <jtaylor> why does bzr upload 4MB+ data for a 1kb diff!
[22:54] <jtaylor> 7MB and counting, its larger than the orig tar already ...
[22:58] <jtaylor> ok used the wrong merge base but its still much larger than the diff
[23:10] <dupondje> Some small question. How do we handle a difference in files in a package on debian and ubuntu. For example on debian it should install normal init scripts, on ubuntu upstart scripts.
[23:15] <Ampelbein> dupondje: dh_installinit should do the right thing already.
[23:29] <dupondje> Ampelbein: so you mean dh_installinit will install upstart file on ubuntu, and normal init script on debian right ?
[23:30] <Ampelbein> dupondje: That's what I get from it's manpage, yes.


[15:52] <ion_> http://ubuntu.de/
[20:42] <sadmac> ion_: wth
[21:42] <Keybuk> It's a Circus
[21:43]  * sadmac noticed
[21:47] <Keybuk> there's an Ubuntu Cola too
[21:55] <sadmac> I always end up finding that horse thing when I look at ubuntu
[21:57] <Keybuk> that horse thing?
[21:58] <sadmac> I found a stable called Ubuntu
[21:58] <sadmac> then theres ubuntu.org, which redirects here: http://www.ubuntu.upc.edu/
[22:00] <Keybuk> sure
[22:00] <Keybuk> they've always owned ubuntu.org
[22:00] <Keybuk> even before we came along
[22:02] <sadmac> what's the name of the markup language pydoc uses?
[22:03] <Keybuk> is there one?
[22:03] <sadmac> yeah, and its got some funky name
[22:04] <Keybuk> *shrug*
[22:04] <Keybuk> never heard of a name
[22:04] <Keybuk> or even of a standard markup language for it
[22:07] <sadmac> Keybuk: reStructured Text
[22:08] <sadmac> its a PITA because if you don't know that name, you can't find shit on the internet about how to write pydoc
[22:08] <Keybuk> oh, that's a fairly standardish one isn't it?
[22:09] <Keybuk> I don't think it's a pep standard for pydoc
[22:09] <sadmac> Keybuk: all the python people around me say use it, and it doesn't seem like you have to do anything interesting to make pydoc parse it


[00:34] <TheLordOfTime> is there a template for a package removal request somewhere?  or at least a wiki i can read about the process in ubuntu
[00:35] <micahg> TheLordOfTime: file a bug against the package, state the reason, and subscribe ubuntu-sponosrs
[00:37] <TheLordOfTime> micahg:  okay, that means i'll have to do further testing with saucy assuming it installs on the VM (I've had issues with doing that...)
[00:37] <TheLordOfTime> micahg:  but that's the process to get a package removed from Ubuntu in all future releases?
[00:37] <TheLordOfTime> because this would be a longer-term blacklist since Debian is breaking the upstream code for the given program causing it to fail...
[00:37] <micahg> devel and future, yes
[00:37] <TheLordOfTime> micahg:  did i miss a freeze date or something, yet?
[00:37] <micahg> well, if it needs a blacklist, state that as well
[00:38] <micahg> TheLordOfTime: for unseeded, no
[00:38] <micahg> for seeded, no
[00:38] <TheLordOfTime> unseeded as in...?
[00:38]  * TheLordOfTime isn't 100% acquainted with all the terms
[00:39] <micahg> not on an image
[00:39] <TheLordOfTime> ah okay
[00:40] <micahg> jbicha: owncloud needed 2 FFes filed for missing binary dependencies (I filed them)
[00:40] <TheLordOfTime> micahg:  what's the freeze date for unseeded?
[00:41] <micahg> TheLordOfTime: 36 hours before release
[00:41] <TheLordOfTime> because based on the internet download speed here i'm going to be downloading Ubuntu for three days
[00:41] <TheLordOfTime> micahg:  and scheduled release time is a while off then?
[00:41] <micahg> TheLordOfTime: Oct 17
[00:42] <micahg> we can actually remove packages a bit later than that
[00:42] <micahg> jbicha: that means owncloud itself most likely should've had an  FFe
[00:44] <TheLordOfTime> micahg:  oh good so i have at least a month to test this.
[00:50] <TheLordOfTime> micahg:  sponsors approves package removals / autosync blacklists?
[00:50] <micahg> yes
[00:50] <TheLordOfTime> did not know that o.O
[00:52] <TheLordOfTime> micahg:  i assume there's no "retroactive removal" from older releases, then?
[00:53] <micahg> correct, solutions can be found for issues if they're severe enough
[00:53] <TheLordOfTime> (except where Debian completely mutilates the package and causes a huge delta from upstream sources, which cases the program to completely not work)
[00:53] <TheLordOfTime> (which is reportedly what's going on here)
[00:54] <micahg> TheLordOfTime: that can be addressed in one of two ways, in Debian, or in Ubuntu
[00:54] <TheLordOfTime> micahg:  working it from both angles
[00:54] <TheLordOfTime> however Debian's "Bitcoin Maintainer Team" is the source of the mutilation of the program
[00:54] <TheLordOfTime> so they'll either tell me to go die in a fire, or they'll realize they made a huge fail and will slap themselves
[00:55] <TheLordOfTime> in either case, I'd like it to be fixed in ubuntu before I go stab debian
[00:55] <TheLordOfTime> although both requests will end up being filed at about othe same time
[00:55] <micahg> is there a bug complaint somewhere?
[00:55] <TheLordOfTime> micahg:  multiple in the upstream tracker
[00:55] <TheLordOfTime> but no evidence usable on the Ubuntu package
[00:55] <TheLordOfTime> and the Debian package's bugs are... well...
[00:55] <TheLordOfTime> old / unupdated
[00:55] <micahg> there's always tech-ette as a last resort if there's something the maintainer is doing that they shouldn't
[00:55] <micahg> package: bitcoin?
[00:55] <TheLordOfTime> source package: bitcoin
[00:56] <TheLordOfTime> micahg:  i'm in the dev channel now for the bitcoin people, their people have heard the reports
[00:56] <TheLordOfTime> but before I go spinning up an unstable image i want to ge tthe Ubuntu bug filed
[00:56] <TheLordOfTime> micahg:  so my current system of processing this is as such: (1) install Saucy, (2) test program versus Upstream code, (3) confirm/reject the upstream claims.
[00:57] <TheLordOfTime> (4) install Debian and update to unstable, (5) test Unstable code against Upstream code, (6) confirm/reject claims
[00:57] <TheLordOfTime> (7) file relevant removal requests
[00:57] <TheLordOfTime> (depending on results of 3 and 6)
[00:57] <TheLordOfTime> micahg:  because i really don't want to deal with Debian myself :/
[00:58] <TheLordOfTime> not without evidence.
[00:58] <micahg> TheLordOfTime: a package like this if it's ABI stable and regression free might be able to get a tech board micro release exception
[00:58] <TheLordOfTime> micahg:  from where?
[00:58] <TheLordOfTime> micahg:  Debian's the source fo the mutilation
[00:58] <TheLordOfTime> they're removing upstream included code
[00:58] <TheLordOfTime> replacing their handlers using certain build deps with other build deps
[00:58] <TheLordOfTime> preventing built-in signature verification from working which causes unusability in the program
[00:59] <TheLordOfTime> micahg:  if it's broken in both Ubuntu and Debian, either the package needs to be removed, or Debian needs to take the package and [CENSORED]
[00:59] <micahg> sounds like a bug, replacing internal code copies with library versions is standard fare for Debian, if that breaks something, that's probably at least severity: important if not RC
[00:59] <TheLordOfTime> micahg:  but i don't take upstream's claims at face value
[00:59] <TheLordOfTime> micahg:  well... let me put it this way
[01:00] <TheLordOfTime> even here on Precise, there is a PPA maintained by someone that actually uses Upstream's code and doesn't mutilate it.
[01:00] <TheLordOfTime> that PPA works for all versions of Ubuntu
[01:00] <TheLordOfTime> (saucy assumed, i'll test that too)
[01:00] <TheLordOfTime> as well, building from Upstream code seems to work as well
[01:00] <TheLordOfTime> the packages as in Precise and pre-raring are using old, unpatched code that won't work as is with the bitcoin network
[01:01] <TheLordOfTime> however there is precise-proposed code that would work
[01:01] <TheLordOfTime> raring's got a passable version, but there's CVEs that weren't fixed until unstable 0.8.3 which is reported 100% unusable
[01:01] <TheLordOfTime> hence my testing to confirm that
[01:02] <TheLordOfTime> if that happens, the "unusable" part means the package is literally unusable (importance: high in Ubuntu, maybe?)
[01:02] <TheLordOfTime> such that in order to sync with the rest of the bitcoin network it will return 'INVALID' on every thing it tries to download from the network, and will never sync uyp
[01:02] <TheLordOfTime> up*
[01:02] <TheLordOfTime> micahg:  at this point, i'm stating what upstream's told me
[01:02] <TheLordOfTime> however i ALWAYS try and confirm this.
[01:03] <TheLordOfTime> (and as a user of bitcoins myself, if these bugs are confirmed, that means it's a much wider problem)
[01:04] <TheLordOfTime> micahg:  all of this will be in (a) the bug report, and (b) the request for removal if I confirm this in Ubuntu and Debian
[01:04] <micahg> TheLordOfTime: sounds about right
[01:06] <TheLordOfTime> micahg:  (i know some would do importance: critical or severity: serious in Debian BTS, but i'm always a little more conservative with my bug importance settings)
[01:07] <TheLordOfTime> (although if I file a bug in Debian it'll probably be serious because completely unusable)
[01:24] <TheLordOfTime> micahg:  If I do my testing via a Live environment, would that be sufficient to gather evidence towards the bug?
[01:25] <micahg> maybe?  idk
[01:25]  * TheLordOfTime shrugs
[01:25] <TheLordOfTime> the VM is lagging so... :/
[01:41] <jbicha> micahg: really? it built here and owncloud is universe, right?
[01:41] <micahg> jbicha: binary dependencies
[01:41] <jbicha> oh
[01:42] <jbicha> thanks
[01:54] <TheLordOfTime> micahg:  a removal is permanent, right?  Or can it later be reversed?
[01:55] <micahg> it can be readded if there's a good reason (or from a sync next cycle)
[01:55] <TheLordOfTime> micahg:  so, basically, file a removal request for Saucy, and it could get readded in T-series by autosync?
[01:56] <TheLordOfTime> or would it stand to just stay removed?
[01:56] <micahg> yes, unless blacklisted
[01:56] <TheLordOfTime> okay, i'm probably going to go for the removal rather than blacklisting
[01:56] <TheLordOfTime> because hopefully Debian unfubar's the package and fixes it by T-series
[01:56] <TheLordOfTime> if not, there'll be more requests (and maybe a blacklist request)
[01:57] <micahg> let
[01:57] <micahg> let
[01:57] <micahg> let's have a discussion when you have all the facts
[01:57] <TheLordOfTime> cool.
[01:57] <TheLordOfTime> ... okay, as expected, daily build won't install... :/
[02:38] <micahg> any Ubuntu DDs use Xubuntu?  I need help with alioth
[07:02] <dholbach> good morning
[18:23] <micahg> jbicha: are you aware unseeded Universe packages require FFes as well?
[18:25] <jtaylor> micahg: I use xubuntu sometimes
[18:26] <jtaylor> and concerning ffe, as far as I know yes everything needs an ffe
[18:26] <jbicha> micahg: yes, I was sorta going off the ffe from comments 33 and 36 of bug 1077624
[18:27] <micahg> jbicha: that was a different cycle
[18:29] <micahg> release exceptions are supposed to expire at some point during the cycle
[18:29] <jbicha> and flightgear was ftbfs
[18:30] <micahg> that just means you'll have an easier time getting it approved :)
[21:08] <TheLordOfTime> micahg:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pdumpfs-rsync/+bug/1219978  <-- not anyhting i'm working on directly. but this might be a good reason to remove that package?   since it's dependency is indeed not in any versions since Lucid according to Launchpad.
[21:08] <TheLordOfTime> (saw it in the bug announcements channel)
[21:12] <micahg> ouch
[21:13] <micahg> how long has it been like that
[21:15] <micahg> TheLordOfTime: already done
[21:17] <TheLordOfTime> micahg:  not sure if your question was pointed towards the bug i linked but... it's been like that since post-Oneiric apparently, to answer your question.
[21:17] <micahg> yeah, it's a shame no one caught it until now
[21:17] <TheLordOfTime> and cool, that's good.  what about the other releases
[21:18] <micahg> not much we can do
[21:18] <micahg> if pdumpfs came back, we could backport it
[21:18] <TheLordOfTime> micahg:  so, set status Fix Released, comment it's removed in Saucy and later, make a note it can't be retroactively removed in other releases?
[21:18] <TheLordOfTime> i mean, while I'm on the bug and all... :p
[21:19] <micahg> yes, and you can note that if pdumpfs returns to Debian/Ubuntu, we can try to backport to any stable releases left
[21:21] <TheLordOfTime> done.
[21:21] <micahg> jtaylor: I'm thinking to make a pkg-xubuntu team on Alioth for packages that Xubuntu cares about that have been orphaned or are maintained by Xubuntu people
[21:21] <TheLordOfTime> micahg:  i assume the package is also blacklisted until the dependencies are resolved?
[21:22] <micahg> TheLordOfTime: it's not in Debian, so no need for blacklisting
[21:22] <TheLordOfTime> cool.  probably was removed from Debian because E:NonexistentDependency or something
[21:22]  * TheLordOfTime goes back to normal bug triaging
[21:22] <micahg> debian 596752
[21:23] <micahg> I have no evidence of pdumpfs-rsync being in Debian
[21:23] <micahg> anytime recently at least