[12:33] <wasabi_> hmm. odd. upgrade from breezy to dapper just failed. lvm2 borked.
[12:55] <pygi> who is up for a little cd burning test?
[01:03] <welshbyte> cd burning, you say?
[01:04] <pygi> welshbyte, yes, yes :)
[01:04] <pygi> with thing other then cdrecord ^_^
[01:05] <welshbyte> sounds interesting, what needs doing?
[01:05] <pygi> welshbyte, svn checkout, compiling, testing :)
[01:05] <pygi> svn co http://libburn-svn.pykix.org/trunk libburn
[01:05] <pygi> bootstrap
[01:05] <pygi> ./configure
[01:06] <pygi> make
[01:06] <pygi> cd test
[01:06] <pygi> ./burniso
[01:06] <welshbyte> on edgy, i'm guessing?
[01:06] <pygi> and you'll see usage :)
[01:06] <pygi> welshbyte, you can try on dapper as well
[01:07] <welshbyte> oh, i thought it might be related to fixing bug 54828
[01:07] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 54828 in linux-source-2.6.17 "cdrecord fails to burn cd's" [Untriaged,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/54828
[01:07] <pygi> welshbyte, eh :)
[01:09] <pygi> welshbyte, partly it might be tho :)
[01:09] <pygi> there is a libburn-over-cdrecord layer which should fix this bug, hehe :)
[01:12] <welshbyte> sorry, have to get on with some work... just made my ears perk because this project needs that bug fixed properly to work on edgy
[01:13] <pygi> welshbyte, "this project" as in?
[01:13] <pygi> plo _
[01:13] <pygi> oki :)
[01:47] <erkanoz07> how can i every start up mii-tool -F 10baseT-HD automatic
[02:16] <beshy> looks like firefox2 has slipped past edgy release
[02:17] <Kaleo> did anybody notice higher memory usage with today updates ?
[02:17] <Kaleo> (I did)
[02:59] <bddebian> Howdy
[03:07] <lastnode> mdz, ping
[03:08] <mdz> lastnode: yes?
[03:09] <lastnode> hi, have you got a sec to hear me out? if not, i can ping you later
[03:19] <lastnode> sorry mdz, that would not have triggered you. my bad.
[03:23] <Hobbsee> hi all
[03:23] <lastnode> hi Hobbsee
[03:40] <mdz> lastnode: I will read what you say to me and respond when I can
[03:45] <lastnode> mdz, ok. sorry to bother you. it's like this - i've been writing a small support layer application for my local distro (www.taprobane.org). it's basically a bash script which uses dialog / Xdialog to gather user input. Based on that input, it attaches the relevant logs (for example, if the user says something is wrong with X, it will attach Xorg.log etc) and sends it via http to a php script on the server side. now, I've managed to get thi
[03:45] <lastnode> s working with wordpress via a plugin, and will be implementing XML-RPC shortly, to get it working with Joomla and other CMSs. I was just thinking, the server side script could also easily be modified to talk with launchpad, and if so, would any of your guys be up for a small demo?
[03:46] <mdz> lastnode: sure
[03:46] <lastnode> mdz, this idea actually came to me while helping out in #ubuntu. there were so many users who were coming in with problems, and we kept asking them to cat this log, and that log. i just thought, wouldn't it be simpler if a bash script could attach logs automatically, based on what is wrong with the system
[03:46] <lastnode> mdz, you find some sample output here, if you'd like a quick peek - http://plaintealiterati.org/poetry/suport-request-from-thebignoobnoobfactorycom/
[03:47] <lastnode> (in that example, the script has attached dmesg/lspci output)
[03:47] <mdz> dark gray on black is very hard to read
[03:47] <lastnode> sorry, that's not really a site meant for testing, but my personal hosting went down, so i had to use it
[03:47] <lastnode> my apologies
[03:48] <mdz> I don't think there's an XML-RPC API for the support tracker at present, but I don't imagine it would be hard to add one
[03:48] <lastnode> so theoretically, this could be plugged in to anything - forums, mailing lists, even irc
[03:48] <mdz> launchpad-users@ would be a good place to discuss it
[03:48] <mdz> I'm not sure that support requests can have attachments either, to be honest
[03:48] <lastnode> mdz, it's not attached really
[03:48] <lastnode> currently curl sends it in the body of the text
[03:48] <lastnode> the logs, i mean
[03:49] <lastnode> and since i use curl, it even returns a nice html reciept to the user, which can be opened in a browser
[03:49] <lastnode> and since the server side is loosely coupled, one could easily write a plugin that pasted new requests in an irc channel via a bot
[03:49] <lastnode> in any case, i shall take this to launchpad-users
[03:50] <lastnode> thank you
[03:50] <mdz> we have a concept for something similar for bugs, which uses infrastructure we already have for gathering system information from installed packages
[03:50] <lastnode> mdz, yes ive seen the bug info gatherer
[03:50] <lastnode> it's pretty sweet
[03:50] <bddebian> heh
[03:51] <lastnode> this is er, more for support than for bugs, actually
[03:51] <lastnode> is there a similar application for support? because ill stop this right now then :s
[03:52] <infinity> lastnode: Sure, but if good info-gathering scripts are in /usr/share/bug, you can have a support request tool that says "ahh, your problem is with X, I'll run the stuff from /usr/share/bug/xorg" and such.  Leverage a system that's already in place, for the benefit of all bug/support tools.
[03:52] <mdz> no, but it would be a good idea to use the same hooks for collecting data
[03:52] <infinity> lastnode: I have nothing against something that's geared toward generic support requests instead of bug reporting.  It's a good idea.
[03:52] <lastnode> is /usr/share/bug ubuntu specific, or is a standard across most distros?
[03:53] <infinity> lastnode: It's Debian-specific.
[03:53] <infinity> lastnode: Came from the original "bug" bug report tool, then also got used by "reportbug", and others since.
[03:53] <lastnode> i see. that would work, really. the live cd im devving for is debian based as well.
[03:53] <infinity> lastnode: The general idea is that packages ship scripts in there to help bug/reportbug decide what extra info to attach.
[03:54] <infinity> lastnode: Some packages have really good stuff there already, many don't have anything there at all.  Contributions either to Ubuntu or directly to Debian to beef up the contents of /usr/share/bug would make me a pretty happy camper.
[03:54] <lastnode> infinity, im just looking through the .sh scripts, and im not getting it
[03:55] <lastnode> oh, right
[03:56] <infinity> Note the use of "presubj" as well, which is cool.
[03:56] <infinity> reportbug/presubj is a good one.
[03:56] <lastnode> you know what would be cool? if i could find a way to check if the distro is deb based or not, and then running a script that is appropriate
[03:56] <infinity> Basically, some quick "have you tried this?" FAQ answers to spit out to the user before they go to the trouble of submitting a support request or bug report and feeling like a fool when they get a 1-line canned response.
[03:57] <infinity> lastnode: Well, I'm not sure if it's true for all derivatives, but in general, most Debian derivatives will have /etc/debian_version on the system.
[03:57] <lastnode> infinity, presubj files seem to be just plain text?
[03:58] <infinity> lastnode: Other than that, it's pretty hard to tell.  The exitence of /usr/bin/dpkg doesn't really mean anything, I have it on some Solaris machine which are clearly not Debian-based, etc.
[03:58] <lastnode> infinity, i could just check for the existence of /usr/share/bug :)
[03:59] <infinity> lastnode: Yeah, presubj is just plain text presented to the user before they go to the effort of filling out an embarassing bug report. :)
[03:59] <infinity> Like, for instance:
[03:59] <infinity> (base)adconrad@cthulhu:/usr/share/bug$ cat vim/vim.presubj
[03:59] <infinity> Please use "vim -u NONE -U NONE" to verify that the bug you want to report
[03:59] <infinity> isn't caused by a configuration error.
[03:59] <infinity> Handy tips to prevent a user from spending a week tearing their hair out over a broken config.
[03:59] <infinity> That sort of thing.
[04:00] <lastnode> infinity, yeah that makes sense
[04:02] <lastnode> infinity, so you were saying populating /usr/share/bug
[04:02] <infinity> Ideally.  It's one of those "good for the community" things. :)
[04:02] <lastnode> that would be basically writing .sh scripts that first present a presubj and then attach the necessary logs for that app?
[04:03] <infinity> If we make /usr/share/bug more useful, everyone benefits.  Debian and reportbug, Launchpad and whatever bug reporting tools we end up with, you and your support requesting tool, etc.
[04:03] <infinity> The presubj stuff is just read directly by the reporting tool, not displayed by the script.
[04:03] <infinity> The script in there is just a script that spits a bunch of stuff to stdout, which your tool collect.
[04:04] <infinity> Whether it's logs, debconf info, /etc/shadow, the sky's the limit.
[04:04] <lastnode> infinity, yeah it echoes. hmm, i guess the best way to go about this is to write an if {} routine within my current script
[04:04] <infinity> (I recommend against submitting patches to packages to output /etc/shadow in their bug scripts, though..)
[04:05] <lastnode> infinity, where would i submit presubjs or scripts i write, for review?
[04:05] <infinity> lastnode: As Debian or Ubuntu bug reports on the packages they affect.
[04:05] <lastnode> cool
[04:05] <infinity> lastnode: I'd prefer to see them as Debian reports, so we all get them, though duplicate reports in Malone and debbugs never hurts, if Ubuntu wants to be faster about integrating the changes.
[04:05] <lastnode> i guess debian makes more sense, right.. to go upstream direct?
[04:05] <infinity> s/hurts/hurt/
[04:09] <lastnode> infinity, so launchpad-users@ is where i should go with this idea?
[04:09] <infinity> lastnode: Well, that's where you should go if you want to discuss an XML-RPC interface for the launchpad support tracker.
[04:09] <infinity> lastnode: Not necessarily for the rest of the conversation we had. :)
[04:09] <Robot101> a
[04:10] <infinity> b
[04:10] <bddebian> c
[04:10] <lastnode> d?
[04:10] <lastnode> infinity, so i guess ill work a little more on this before taking it there
[04:10] <bddebian> infinity: :-)
[04:10] <lastnode> yeah like me too, me three
[04:10] <lastnode> :\
[04:11] <infinity> Though, creepy that we all had the same length nick, so it all matched up...
[04:11] <infinity> The things you notice when you're suffering from the lightheaded effect of no breakfast...
[04:14] <lastnode> infinity, i guess one could also write a plugin to input the data directly in to the launchpad db
[04:14] <lastnode> although that would have to be by someone who already knows the architecture etc
[04:15] <infinity> lastnode: Well, the XML-RPC interface would essentially be that anyway. :)
[04:15] <infinity> lastnode: (but with a thin layer between you and the DB, obviously)
[04:16] <infinity> lastnode: We're not too likely to open up the postgresql port to the world to actually write TO it. ;)
[04:17] <imbrandon> abstration layers are good anyhow so if the db changes the app dosent have to ;)
[04:17] <lastnode> yeah, of course
[04:17] <lastnode> i meant via a db object
[04:17] <infinity> The launchpad DB never changes!
[04:18] <imbrandon> ;)
[04:18] <lastnode> like for the prototype wordpress plugin i just used the wordpress inbuilt calls
[04:18] <imbrandon> hahaha
[04:18] <lastnode> so that's above the db
[04:18] <imbrandon> lastnode: a wp plugin for LP ? i would be interested in that
[04:18] <infinity> lastnode: It would probably just be a really simple XML-RPC call passing a massive struct.  So, it's pretty easy to do.
[04:19] <lastnode> imbrandon, no, for my help support script
[04:19] <lastnode> if anyone is interested in looking at, or hacking my script a little, please let me know
[04:20] <lastnode> :)
[04:20] <lastnode> im still looking for a way to see if X is running on a box
[04:20] <infinity> lastnode: Ideally, simple things like "submit a support request" or "submit a bug report" in launchpad should be an extra 2 or 3 lines of code in your application, if it's being done right.  If it's not, talk to me and I'll sit down with brad again and make sure it is. ;)
[04:20] <imbrandon> lastnode: give me a url i wouldent mind poking at it a bit, i'm always hackin on wp
[04:20] <lastnode> i want to use dialog and Xdialog accordingly
[04:20] <lastnode> imbrandon, http://plaintealiterati.org/poetry/suport-request-from-thebignoobnoobfactorycom/ is some example output
[04:20] <lastnode> ill have the source up soon
[04:21] <imbrandon> k
[04:21] <lastnode> i gotta go shower and get ready, today is tutorial day at apachecon
[04:21] <lastnode> :)
[04:21] <infinity> lastnode: [ -n $DISPLAY ]  && echo "We're running from X"
[04:21] <lastnode> I don't wanna miss Rich Bowen's intro to apache :)
[04:21] <lastnode> infinity, is $DISPLAY a good check?
[04:21] <infinity> lastnode: It's what everything else in the world uses.
[04:21] <lastnode> in some instances, could it be populated without X running?
[04:22] <infinity> lastnode: For safety, you can also fall-back if xdialog doesn't run.
[04:22] <imbrandon> lastnode: nearly everything checks for $DISPLAY
[04:22] <lastnode> infinity, ok, because i asked in #bash and i was told it was a bad way to check
[04:22] <infinity> lastnode: If $DISPLAY is populated withou an active display, the user's setup is broken.
[04:22] <lastnode> :\
[04:22] <lastnode> infinity, i didnt get that
[04:22] <lastnode> anyway brb
[04:35] <lastnode> imbrandon, ill mail you the source in a hour. just leaving, ill be online from the venue though
[04:35] <lastnode> infinity, thanks a lot for the help/advice. rest assured ill be bugging you again, soon :)
[04:35] <imbrandon> k<EMAIL_ADDRESS>or<EMAIL_ADDRESS>either one
[06:07] <Seq> does anybody know offhand what the debhelper tool is that automatically generates entries in the debian/changelog file in a package?
[06:07] <bddebian> dch
[06:08] <infinity> dch is in devscripts, not debhelper.
[06:08] <Seq> bah, no wonder i couldn't find it. i was reading the manpage for the debhelper stuff :p
[06:08] <bddebian> Whoops, I didn't even read the debhelper part :-)
[06:09] <infinity> Anyhow, yes, dch can be used interactively, or fully-automatically.
[06:09] <infinity> And is the bestest thing EVAR.
[06:09] <bddebian> heh
[06:09] <infinity> I could be exaggerating a bit, of course.
[06:09] <LaserJock> just a tiny bit
[06:10] <Seq> not by a whole lot, it is rather handy
[06:10] <infinity> Uh oh.
[06:10] <infinity> I retract it all, then.
[06:10] <infinity> The day I agree with someone from Ontario, I suspect the world will end.
[06:11] <Seq> not exaggerating by a whole lot i mean
[06:11] <Seq> what, are you from Alberta or something? :)
[06:11] <infinity> Seq: Yes. :)
[06:12] <infinity> (I live in Australia now, but old habits are hard to break)
[06:12] <Seq> well then i'm glad we disagree.. 'cause... yeah...
[06:13] <Hobbsee> infinity: you *do*?  where?
[06:13] <infinity> Hobbsee: Melbourne.
[06:14] <LaserJock> infinity: I didn't know you were from Alberta, I'm from Montana (down south) ;-)
[06:14] <LaserJock> I grew up watching Alberta plates go down the Interstate ;-)
[06:14] <infinity> LaserJock: I've driven through your state at ridiculous speeds on countless occasions.  Never actually stopped for more than the few minutes required to collect my speeding tickets. :P
[06:15] <Hobbsee> infinity: ahh..
[06:15] <imbrandon> lol @ infinity
[06:16] <LaserJock> infinity: you weren't around when there was no speed limit?
[06:16] <LaserJock> that was fun
[06:16] <infinity> LaserJock: I got ticketed then too. :)
[06:17] <infinity> LaserJock: Apparently, 240km/h isn't a "reasonable and safe speed".
[06:17] <Hobbsee> hah
[06:17] <Hobbsee> scary
[06:17] <LaserJock> ah yes
[06:17] <sbalneav_> Anyone in here a udev maven?  Working on floppy support for ltsp.
[06:17] <imbrandon> LaserJock: yea the 90's were fun ;) seems the world went nuts
[06:18] <LaserJock> ah, another canuck arrives :-)
[06:20] <sbalneav_> Hm, keybuk's the guy I need, but he's not here.
[06:20] <sbalneav_> Lets see how badly this goes :)
[06:47] <bddebian> Anyone in here know why I would be getting this:
[06:47] <bddebian> ./configure --prefix=/usr
[06:47] <bddebian> make: execvp: ./configure: Permission denied
[06:47] <bddebian> make: *** [configure]  Error 127
[06:47] <infinity> chmod +x configure
[06:47] <bddebian> Why the hell would it have changed?
[06:47] <bddebian> Hmm
[06:48] <Hobbsee> ran dh_stripperms thru it, or whatever it is?
[06:48] <bddebian> It is 0755
[06:48] <Hobbsee> dh_fixperms
[06:48] <bluefoxicy> 755 is ok o.o hmm.
[06:49] <bluefoxicy> bddebian:  read the first line of configure.
[06:49] <bddebian> What #!/bin/sh?
[06:49] <bluefoxicy> make sure it's not using a non-executable interpreter, make sure if it says /bin/sh that edgy hasn't broken /bin/sh if you're on edgy, etc.
[06:49] <bluefoxicy> that should cover all the obvious stuff.
[06:49] <bddebian> It built fine until I added two dpatch files
[06:50] <bluefoxicy> on to the inobvious:  Is there a sun spot above your house?
[06:50] <bluefoxicy> ah.  o.o  Contents of said patches may be relevant.  :)
[07:00] <bddebian> It is calling dh_fixperms, hmm
[07:01] <infinity> bddebian: Generally that's done in the binary target, long after you've run configure.
[07:01] <infinity> bddebian: And shouldn't affect anything except the contents of debian/packagename or debian/tmp
[07:01] <bddebian> Aye, I wouldn't think so but I'm at a loss at the moment
[07:02] <infinity> bddebian: You can always do a quick dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -uc -us -S, and toss the source package somewhere for extra eyes.
[07:02] <infinity> bddebian: Debugging based on pure guesswork isn't all that simple.
[07:03] <bddebian> True
[07:03] <infinity> Ergh, what's Luke Yelavich's IRC nick again?
[07:04] <infinity> TheMuso: Dude.  That brltty change is 12 kinds of wrong.
[07:04] <infinity> TheMuso: The .so symlink belongs on the -dev package.  If gnome-orca is trying to dlopen the library incorrectly, it needs to be fixed, not placated.
[07:04] <infinity> s/on the/in the/
[07:05] <TheMuso> infinity: I mentioned that upstream, and they said thats the way they want to do it.
[07:05] <infinity> "they"?
[07:05] <TheMuso> Mind you, I might look at the source of orca and change that then.
[07:05] <Hobbsee> bddebian: that'll do it.
[07:05] <infinity> TheMuso: Which upstream for what?
[07:06] <Hobbsee> bddebian: you can use --exclude ./configure or whatever the syntax is.  i had to do that for libdvdread
[07:06] <infinity> TheMuso: Shipping the .so in the library is always, always, always wrong.  It just points to bugs in other packages.
[07:07] <TheMuso> infinity: Fair enough.
[07:07] <TheMuso> I can't understand why they dlopen the bloody thing in the first place
[07:08] <infinity> TheMuso: *shrug*... Who knows.  But since we know the true path to the library, just fix the dlopen call to look for libbrlapi.so.1 or whatever.
[07:09] <infinity> TheMuso: And since the previous upload's so shiny and new, don't worry about trying to do evil Replaces magic to move the file back again, just revert the change and pretend no one will notice. :)
[07:09] <TheMuso> Yeah.   It links to it AND dlopens it?
[07:11] <TheMuso> My point exactly.
[07:11] <infinity> There's some serious crack cloud surrounding that one.
[07:11] <TheMuso> I'll bet my bottom dollar that the code could be built without linking against it, if they dlopen it.
[07:11] <infinity> TheMuso: Anyhow, please revert the brltty change ASAP, before the window of "hey, the bug only existed for an hour, just --force-overwrite and leave me alone" gets too wide.
[07:11] <infinity> TheMuso: Then you can worry about fixing the above crack. :)
[07:12] <Hobbsee> hah
[07:12] <TheMuso> infinity: Ok.
[07:12] <Hobbsee> but dont you love all those bugs, and the accompanying dupes?
[07:12] <infinity> Hobbsee: Yeah, but it's less hassle to put up with an hour of bug reports than a debian/control that's completely unreadable because you now have two packages replacing each other for no sane reason.
[07:13] <Hobbsee> infinity: hah.  how'd that happen?
[07:13] <infinity> Hobbsee: Moving a file from A to B, then back to A.
[07:13] <Hobbsee> now that really *is* on some seriously weird crack.
[07:13] <Hobbsee> infinity: ah yeah, that'll do it.
[07:15] <infinity> TheMuso: BTW, who sponsored that upload for you?  I'd like to berate them for a bit. ;)
[07:15] <TheMuso> infinity: crimsun
[07:15] <Hobbsee> *hopes it wasnt me*
[07:15] <TheMuso> Hobbsee: Its a main package.
[07:15] <infinity> Hobbsee: Couldn't have been you, it's in main.
[07:15] <Hobbsee> lucky
[07:15] <Hobbsee> ah well, one less thing i can be blamed for :P
[07:15] <infinity> crimsun: You and me, bike racks, after school.
[07:15] <TheMuso> infinity: If I give you an URL to a debdiff, mind reviewing/uploading, just to make sure I'm doing what you suggested correctly?
[07:15] <bddebian> heh
[07:16] <infinity> TheMuso: Of course.
[07:16] <TheMuso> infinity: Thanks./
[07:16] <crimsun> infinity: yes?
[07:16] <infinity> crimsun: You sponsored an upload of a package that moved an .so symlink from a -dev package to a library package.  Please don't. ;)
[07:17] <crimsun> sorry
[07:17] <infinity> crimsun: Just keep in mind that sponsorship is a quality control thing.  Be even more anal with sponsored uploads than you are with your own.
[07:18] <infinity> (Heck, I'm anal when sponsoring for Kamion and jbailey when they've not got their GPG keys handy, and I'm pretty sure they're both 12 times brighter than I am)
[07:20] <desrt> i can reliably make dd on dapper segfault
[07:20] <TheMuso> infinity: http://www.themuso.id.au/ubuntu/brltty_3.7.2-3.1ubuntu1_3.7.2-3.1ubuntu2.diff
[07:20] <desrt> this seems odd.
[07:20] <TheMuso> A nice learning exercise.
[07:20] <infinity> desrt: Doing something particularly weird with it?
[07:21] <desrt> no.  not even.
[07:21] <desrt> totally mundane.
[07:21] <desrt> echo string > somefile
[07:21] <desrt> dd if=somefile
[07:21] <desrt> [boom]
[07:21] <desrt> when it goes to do the speed calculation it dies
[07:22] <desrt> happens on edgy too >:|
[07:23] <desrt> ah.  known problem. bug 42264
[07:23] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 42264 in rosetta "locale dependant segfault for dd" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/42264
[07:24] <infinity> TheMuso: That upload looks fine.
[07:24] <TheMuso> Ok thanks.
[07:25] <infinity> TheMuso: Though the reverted change does hilight that the previous change wasn't quite right.
[07:25] <infinity> TheMuso: In the previous change, when you moved a file from package A to package B, you should have made package B "Replaces: packageA (<= Last-Version-With-That-File)"
[07:25] <infinity> TheMuso: The fact that you didn't have to revert such a change means you forgot to do it in the first place. :)
[07:26] <infinity> When a file moves between packages, you need to ell dpkg about it.  That's what the "Replaces" field is for.
[07:26] <infinity> If you don't give dpkg a hint, you just get overwrite errors on upgrade.
[07:27] <desrt> oh wait.  i know this one.
[07:27] <TheMuso> infinity: Righto.
[07:27] <desrt> read this : https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/22335
[07:27] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 22335 in ubuntu-meta "gnome-screensaver conflicts with ubuntu-desktop" [Medium,Fix released]
[07:27] <infinity> TheMuso: Anyhow, the new one's uploaded, bugginess in the archive should only last another hour or two, and most of the world is asleep, so screw 'em.
[07:27] <desrt> it has a fantastic rant on the subject of exactly how to use replaces, etc.
[07:28] <TheMuso> infinity: Thanks heaps. Tis much appreciated. Another little tidbit to commit to memory. :)
[07:28] <infinity> desrt: Scott can be a bit exciteable. :)
[07:28] <desrt> TheMuso; the rant in that bug is worth reading
[07:29] <infinity> (Even moreso than I)
[07:29] <desrt> infinity; i learnt a lot from him there :)
[07:29] <infinity> You could learn the same thing from carefully reading Debian Policy. :P
[07:30] <TheMuso> desrt: Thanks for the reading material.
[07:30] <desrt> it's less dry this way :)
[07:30] <infinity> I think we should just tattoo a few key sections (Package Relationships and Detailed Explanation of the Unpack/Configure Phases) on the chests of each new MOTU.
[07:31] <desrt> mental note . o O (( do not become motu ))
[07:33] <jamesh> infinity: I suppose it should be tattooed in mirror image
[07:33] <jamesh> so it is easier to read in the mirror
[07:33] <infinity> jamesh: Or, they could just hang out together and read policy to each other.
[07:33] <TheMuso> Now to patch gnome-orca to be a little less crackful.
[07:33] <desrt> just tatoo it upside down
[07:34] <desrt> so when you look down at your chest it's there
[07:34] <jamesh> infinity: because motus often hang out together with their shirts off?
[07:34] <infinity> jamesh: Well, we *are* known for our "friendly" community...
[07:34] <TheMuso> Actually, I'd need something that would create a braille tattoo on my chest, as that would help me more. :)
[07:35] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: pins and needles
[07:35] <infinity> jamesh: Ironic, given that we work for the same company, live in the same city, and I don't think we've ever once been out for a drink, with or without shirts.
[07:35] <infinity> jamesh: To be honest, I don't even recall what you look like. :)
[07:35] <infinity> Yeah, I never leave the house.  NERD PRIDE.
[07:35] <TheMuso> Hobbsee: Yeah thats a start.
[07:36] <infinity> TheMuso: You could do braille scarification, I suppose, but it would be delicate work.  Or really big braille.
[07:36] <Hobbsee> infinity: what colour's the sky today?  :P
[07:36] <TheMuso> haha yeah
[07:36] <infinity> Hobbsee: Greyish.
[07:36] <Hobbsee> infinity: ah.  you have a window then.
[07:36] <TheMuso> The sky is blue here.
[07:36] <infinity> Yes. :)
[07:36] <jamesh> infinity: I don't live in Melbourne
[07:37] <jamesh> infinity: I'm over in Perth
[07:37] <infinity> jamesh: Oh, I could have sworn you did.  See?  Out of touch.
[07:37] <infinity> jamesh: Maybe it's because we share an ISP, or just because I'm generally retarded.
[07:38] <Hobbsee> jamesh: come over to the nice side of australia :P
[07:38] <desrt> Hobbsee; oh.  you live in perth too, then?
[07:39] <Hobbsee> desrt: nope
[07:39] <Hobbsee> sydney
[07:39] <desrt> oh.  i thought you said the *nice* side
[07:39] <Hobbsee> indeed, i did
[07:39] <desrt> sydney's a bit dumpy
[07:39] <desrt> well, i tell a lie
[07:39] <Hobbsee> ah.  it's covered by the hostmask, that's right
[07:39] <StevenK> Sydney is *not* dumpy
[07:39] <desrt> sydney's a lot dumpy
[07:42] <jamesh> Hobbsee: I'm on the nice side of Australia
[07:42] <jdub> infinity: probably because like all americans, you have no sense of geography.
[07:42] <infinity> jdub: Die.
[07:42] <Hobbsee> hahaha
[07:42] <jdub> infinity: mexican.
[07:42] <Hobbsee> jdub: is just terrible at figuring out accents.
[07:42] <jamesh> If I wanted to live in a place like Sydney I'd just go to the US
[07:43] <desrt> jamesh; represent.
[07:43] <HrdwrBoB> if I wanted to live in a place like sydney I'd live in sydney
[07:43] <stub> If I wanted to live in a place like Sydney I'd get therapy.
[07:43] <HrdwrBoB> but fortunately I live in melbourne :)
[07:43] <jdub> HrdwrBoB: mexican.
[07:43] <jdub> stub: mexican.
[07:43] <stub> I'm further north than you dude!
[07:44] <jamesh> stub is in the northern hemisphere
[07:47] <jdub> stub: excuses!
[07:49] <stub> jdub: mexican!
[07:54] <pitti> Good morning
[07:55] <Hobbsee> hi pitti
[07:56] <pitti> Hey Hobbsee
[07:56] <pitti> moin StevenK
[08:25] <infinity> Riddell: Ping.
[09:10] <pitti> hey seb128
[09:11] <seb128> hey pitti
[09:22] <test> hello all
[09:22] <test> I want to create a automated Installed, that installs all the packages that I have right now, if possible also the same configs
[09:23] <test> I want to create a automated Installed, that installs all the packages that I have right now... like the ubuntu installer, but then only with the packages that I have...
[09:31] <tepsipakki> test: see pkgsync
[09:55] <pitti> hey pygi
[09:55] <pitti> pygi: burn, baby, burn! :)
[09:55] <pitti> pygi: currently testing and writing a mail to you
[09:58] <pitti> G0SUB: ping
[10:00] <pygi> pitti, thanks, thanks :)
[10:06] <pygi> pitti, I shall have the layer ready for you next week or something
[10:06] <pygi> if I manage not to sleep until then:P
[10:07] <pitti> ah, burning completed
[10:07] <pygi> pitti, with actual content on the cd? :)
[10:08] <pitti> yes, seems so :)
[10:08] <pitti> sent
[10:10] <infinity> \o/
[10:10] <pygi> pitti, you can erase cd with one of the test apps (I can't remember name offhand now)
[10:11] <pygi> pitti, for speed selection, you can ofcourse, just not in the test app
[10:13] <pitti> pygi: yep, I did (test/blank)
[10:15] <pygi> right, right :)
[10:16] <pygi> I'll put in a speed selection perhaps, and optional blanking integrated ^_^
[10:16] <pygi> but that is just for test, anyway ^_^
[10:18] <pygi> talk to you later pitti, and thanks for testing :)
[10:18] <pygi> many more testing to come :)
[10:25] <pitti> pygi: \o/
[10:27] <fabbione> morning guys
[10:27] <pitti> hey fabbione
[10:28] <infinity> ./win 12
[10:28] <infinity> Ergh.
[10:28] <pitti> infinity: you won?
[10:28] <fabbione> hey pitti
[10:28] <fabbione> hi infinity
[10:28] <fabbione> does anybody know what export alutInit symbol?
[10:31] <fabbione> oh openal
[10:33] <whip|lwe> jdub: so, novell gave away a customized X60 with suse artwork painted on the lid. The guy who won it is the Ubuntu hacks author. :D
[10:34] <jdub> whip|lwe: ha ha
[10:34] <jdub> whip|lwe: congrats on your righteous win
[10:34] <whip|lwe> thx
[10:35] <whip|lwe> we got tons of pics, will blog tomorrow ... nite.
[10:35] <whip|lwe> haha
[10:36] <jack_wyt_> fabbione: i custom a kubuntu livecd, but i don't know how to set user passwd in squashfs/usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/casper-bottom/10adduser
[10:36] <whip|lwe> wait until bill blogs the x60 with ubuntu running on it.
[10:39] <fabbione> jack_wyt: sorry i don't do livecd
[10:43] <jack_wyt_> fabbione: do you know who knows
[10:43] <fabbione> jack_wyt_: Kamion and Mithrandir
[10:44] <jack_wyt_> fabbione: thx
[10:48] <infinity> jack_wyt_: What's the poine of having a password on a livecd?
[10:48] <infinity> s/poine/point/
[10:50] <infinity> jack_wyt_: Anyhow, see the line in that script with "set passwd/user-password-crypted U6aMy0wojraho
[10:50] <infinity> "
[10:50] <lastnode> imbrandon, back :)
[10:51] <infinity> jack_wyt_: That blank password hash was make with:  mkpasswd "" U6
[10:51] <infinity> jack_wyt_: mkpasswd something else, based on the password you want, and you win.
[10:52] <imbrandon> heya lastnode i was just heading off to sleep, could you just shoot me an email for now and we'll chat again later on irc ?
[10:52] <imbrandon> lastnode: imbrandon at kubuntu.org ;)
[10:52] <lastnode> imbrandon, sure, will do :)
[10:52] <imbrandon> thanks bro, gnight infinity fabbione jdub and *
[11:07] <tepsipakki> is there any way to force the order on /etc/iftab during install? my laptop has both a wired and wireless devices and they are assigned randomly (eth0/1)
[11:07] <tepsipakki> and I need to install from wired net
[11:07] <tepsipakki> I don't remember dapper suffering from this
[11:10] <mvo> tepsipakki: you may want to use iftab
[11:11] <mvo> tepsipakki: oh, sorry - answering too quickly
[11:13] <tepsipakki> mvo: ;)
[11:13] <tepsipakki> I'm not sure if it's possible to make sure udev probes the devices in right order.. maybe not
[11:17] <heno> could someone give me some advice on making seed changes?
[11:18] <heno> gnome-orca has now been approved for main (but does not yet appear as such in LP)
[11:18] <pitti> heno: sure, what do you want to do?
[11:18] <pitti> heno: ah, it needs to be put into the right seed, and actually promoted by an archive master
[11:19] <heno> I want to move gnome-orca to 'desktop' and relegate gnopernicus to 'supported'
[11:19] <pitti> heno: ok, I'll guide you through the process in /msg
[11:19] <heno> pitti: thanks!
[11:20] <Riddell> infinity: pong
[11:24] <infinity> Riddell: All the extra binary packages in the hwdb-client you uploaded.  Is that stuff all getting seeded and heading to main, or should I pop it all in universe?
[11:24] <cbx33> hi all, any python-dbus gurus here?
[11:24] <Riddell> infinity: they should be in main please
[11:25] <Riddell> they're in the seeds, although I'll need to update the meta-packages
[11:25] <Riddell> cbx33: a bit
[11:25] <cbx33> Riddell: can I trouble you for a little bit of your time
[11:25] <infinity> Riddell: Kay, cool.
[11:25] <cbx33> in here or pm?
[11:25] <Riddell> cbx33: here is fine
[11:26] <cbx33> in dbus, there are DATA messages and such
[11:26] <cbx33> by using the python bindings are these handled for us...
[11:26] <cbx33> are these messages lower level?
[11:26] <infinity> Riddell: Accepted.
[11:27] <Riddell> thanks infinity
[11:27] <cbx33> Riddell: in this spec https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StudentControlPanelCompletion there is a little bit about execution of programs in the users session
[11:28] <cbx33> ogra talks about the exectution of an application steps
[11:28] <cbx33> now I have hacked up some little dbus testing code, which has a server and client
[11:28] <cbx33> and the client can use the serverse classes/methods
[11:29] <cbx33> but I never once explicitly say send a DATA or OK message
[11:29] <cbx33> is that because these are handled at a much lower level by the python-dbus bindings?
[11:29] <pitti> heno: ^ infinity has ftp master powers, if you send him a flower, he might promote gnome-orca :)
[11:30] <infinity> pitti: gnome-orca's broken until TheMuso fixes it to stop being retarded.
[11:30] <infinity> pitti: So, if it's going into a desktop seed or something, I'd prefer to wait until it actually works.
[11:31] <pitti> ok, thanks for the hint
[11:31] <pitti> I don't commit it yet then
[11:31] <StevenK> I couldn't see what makes orca better than gnopernicus.
[11:31] <StevenK> Aside from the fact that gnopernicus sucks.
[11:31] <infinity> StevenK: It reminds people of dolphins?
[11:32] <infinity> Which makes them crave tuna...
[11:32] <StevenK> infinity: You have been going off on weird tangents that last few days ...
[11:32] <Riddell> cbx33: can't say I've heard of DATA or OK messages, are you sure they're not just used in that spec as the messages to be sent?
[11:32] <infinity> StevenK: I think I've pretty much completely lost my mind, that's why. :)
[11:32] <StevenK> But that reminds me, I need to hack gnome-speech to talk to IBMTTS.
[11:33] <cbx33> Riddell: no
[11:33] <cbx33> they are in the official dbus spec
[11:33] <cbx33> hang on I'll dig it out
[11:33] <heno> StevenK: Orca has super scripting powers that allows it to adapt to different applications
[11:34] <StevenK> heno: I'll mention Orca to my boss and he'll say, "Ewww, Python" :-)
[11:34] <cbx33> they are used for authentication
[11:34] <cbx33> Riddell: http://dbus.freedesktop.org/doc/dbus-specification.html
[11:34] <cbx33> Riddell: http://dbus.freedesktop.org/doc/dbus-specification.html
[11:34] <cbx33> whoops...laggy here sorry
[11:35] <pitti> StevenK: heh, our's would say 'yay python' instead :-P
[11:36] <infinity> StevenK: So, you're saying you have a mirror on your cubicle wall?
[11:37] <StevenK> infinity: No cubicle for me.
[11:37] <StevenK> No mirror, either.
[11:37] <pitti> infinity: it's so nice to work with a friendly colleague :)
[11:37] <Riddell> cbx33: then you know more than me I'm afraid
[11:38] <Riddell> cbx33: but having used the python-dbus bindings I've never come across that so I guess it's all hidden
[11:38] <cbx33> Riddell: heheh, do you use service files to authenticate?
[11:38] <cbx33> as described in the spec?
[11:41] <StevenK> Oh look, it's my mother for the third time.
[11:41] <StevenK> Kamion: Hey, aren't you on holidays?
[11:42] <Riddell> cbx33: nope.  I just used it for talking to HAL
[11:42] <Riddell> cbx33: the python-dbus source package has plenty of examples
[11:43] <cbx33> yes that's where I got mine from
[11:43] <cbx33> ok last question, if I was going to talk to the session or system bus, to ask it to start an application in the users session
[11:43] <cbx33> where would I look for documentation on that
[11:43] <cbx33> I've been to the moon and back and found none
[11:44] <Riddell> cbx33: if your programme is running as the user then it wants to talk to the session bus to do user stuff
[11:45] <cbx33> ok cool
[11:46] <cbx33> how do I find docs on how to address that bus
[11:46] <cbx33> and it's associated methods
[11:46] <cbx33> I presume we call on the methods in the bus to do that kinda thing
[11:46] <Riddell> cbx33: I don't think it has any methods unless you define some
[11:48] <cbx33> so how do I put the mssage on the session bus
[11:48] <cbx33> and who/what do I address it to
[11:48] <cbx33> this is where my brain melts
[11:49] <Riddell> cbx33: you need a program that defines the methods and sits there waiting for them to be called, and does something when they are called
[11:49] <Riddell> so that's your server programme
[11:50] <Riddell> and you need a client program to do the calling
[11:51] <cbx33> well that's what I thought but on conversation with ogra, I got the impression there was one sitting there already
[11:51] <cbx33> that would pickup a message like exec /usr/bin/firefox
[11:51] <cbx33> and run with it
[11:51] <Riddell> cbx33: not as far as I know, unless he already has some LTSP magic sitting there
[11:52] <cbx33> Riddell: http://dbus.freedesktop.org/doc/dbus-specification.html#message-bus-starting-services - i don;t know whether this is what he was thinking about
[11:52] <cbx33> Riddell: no this is all new code
[11:57] <Riddell> cbx33: interesting.  guess you need to add a file to /usr/share/dbus-1/services/
[11:57] <jdub> mjg59: is p4-clockmod sucky?
[11:57] <cbx33> Riddell: for each app they are likely to want to start
[11:58] <pitti> seb128: yay, I identified the cdrecord upstream change which is responsible for the non-root breakage
[11:58] <pitti> seb128: it works well now again
[11:58] <Riddell> cbx33: looks like it
[11:58] <mjg59> jdub: Yes
[11:59] <Riddell> man dcop is so much easier to understand than dbus
[11:59] <mjg59> jdub: It changes the duty cycle on the CPU but doesn't drop the core voltage, so you get a linear reduction in power consumption tied to a linear reduction in performance
[11:59] <mjg59> jdub: And the latency is a killer on a lot of machines
[11:59] <jdub> aha
[12:00] <mjg59> Modern P4s support cpufreq-centrino
[12:00] <mjg59> If it's got the est flag in /proc/cpuinfo
[12:00] <jdub> just realised it works with the quebecistani craptop celeron m
[12:00] <jdub> so toying with it
[12:00] <cbx33> sorry Riddell
[12:00] <cbx33> thanks so much for your help
[12:01] <cbx33> how would I address the users session dbus message bus?
[12:01] <cbx33> hehehe?
[12:02] <Riddell> bus = dbus.SessionBus()
[12:02] <mjg59> jdub: Right. The difference is that dropping the voltage means you get an exponential decrease in power consumption for a linear decrease in performance
[12:03] <jdub> Kamion: is there a good edgy install image you'd recommend atm?
[12:03] <Riddell> jdub: Kamion's on holiday.  knot 1 is the last known good
[12:03] <mjg59> jdub: It's worth having a play. You'll get a little extra battery life
[12:03] <jdub> Riddell: ok, thanks
[12:04] <cbx33> Riddell: how do I target specifically to a user
[12:05] <Riddell> cbx33: generally you'd connect to the same user as you're running as
[12:06] <ogra> cbx33, you dont, at all
[12:06] <ogra> read the spec
[12:06] <ogra> (we also talked about it last time we discussed it, thats what the list parameter is for)
[12:07] <ogra> as i said last time, make the client app just listen on the system bus and make it wait for messages
[12:08] <ogra> (just copy the necessary parts from willowng, change the namespace and list of messages, and put the listening part from there into a small listening app that runs in the users session)
[12:08] <cbx33> ogra: sorry I missunderstood
[12:24] <seb128> pitti: rock!
[12:24] <pitti> seb128: I'll upload it soon, it just FTBFSes with pkg-create-dbgsym, thus I need to fix that first
[12:25] <seb128> oki
[12:25] <pitti> seb128: I tested pygi's libburn, btw, it works fine
[12:26] <seb128> pitti: fine enough to replace cdrecord?
[12:26] <pitti> seb128: I only tested blanking and ISO burning so far, no .wav and multitrack stuff
[12:27] <pitti> probably not yet
[12:27] <pitti> but it might get there soon /me hopes
[12:27] <seb128> ok, probably something nice to follow anyway
[12:27] <seb128> yeah, would be nice
[12:44] <tseng> is core-dev able to accept packages from NEW now?
[12:45] <tseng> don't want to just try it if there is some policy or its unfinished
[12:45] <sabdfl> erk
[12:45] <tseng> morn sabdfl
[12:46] <simira> morning sabdfl
[12:47] <sabdfl> hey guys
[12:57] <Keybuk> tseng: no, just ubunutu-archive
[12:57] <Keybuk> what's stuck in NEW?
[12:57] <tseng> Keybuk: ajmitch explained it
[12:58] <tseng> Keybuk: apperantly coredev was given super powers to be able to mark milestones for bugs in the short term
[01:00] <tseng> Keybuk: which is probably worth an announce "hey, you guys can do pretty much anything atm, but we trust you not to"
[01:01] <Keybuk> I didn't realise there were super-powers involved for that
[01:01] <Keybuk> that's just Ubuntu-Bugs no?
[01:01] <tseng> < ajmitch> I think the only compromise for now was setting core-dev as  distrorelease drivers
[01:03] <Keybuk> dunno, can't tell
[01:04] <Keybuk> seems to have been set as the driver for edgy
[01:08] <infinity> sabdfl: It was uploaded yesterday...
[01:09] <infinity> sabdfl: (within an hour or so of talking to you about it)
[01:15] <Ranbee> hi, can someone tell me if Edgy will support my computer?
[01:16] <lastnode> Ranbee, #ubuntu+1 for EdgyEft questions please :)
[01:16] <Keybuk> Laser_away: err, edgy is #ubuntu-devel
[01:16] <Ranbee> OK thanks for the help :)
[01:16] <Keybuk> meh
[01:16] <Keybuk> Ranbee: what's your computer
[01:17] <Ranbee> can i pastebin lshw?
[01:17] <Ranbee> it's the dell sata raid i'm having problems with
[01:17] <Ranbee> fakeraid
[01:18] <Keybuk> does it work on dapper?
[01:19] <Ranbee> no,  it installs, but then can't see the HDDs
[01:20] <Ranbee> if anyone wants to see lshw this is it http://pastebin.be/2050/
[01:20] <Keybuk> have you tried booting with an edgy live cd?
[01:20] <Ranbee> no, i'll try it
[01:20] <Ranbee> thanks
[01:20] <Ranbee> sorry, i didn't think of that
[01:22] <lastnode> Keybuk, sorry, i thought this wasn't a support channel. my bad.
[01:22] <Keybuk> it isn't
[01:24] <Ranbee> i'd spent so much time with Dapper i hadn't thought of trying Edgy, thanks for the help. i love Ubuntu and i'm using suse atm. i'm going to get Edgy now. bye
[01:29] <rodarvus> is it on purpose that edgy-changes@ now receives emails for accepted binary packages? (I apologize in advance if this has been discussed before I arrived)
[01:29] <Keybuk> no, it's a bug
[01:30] <Keybuk> afaik, it's only those things processed out of NEW
[01:45] <camcorder> hi
[01:46] <camcorder> does thunderbird in ubutu use gtktextview widgets and gtkspell?
[02:06] <Keybuk> so, that's err, kinda interesting
[02:06] <Keybuk> both apt and aptitude think my system is fine
[02:07] <Keybuk> yet "firefox (silly version number) breaks firefix-themes-ubuntu"
[02:07] <infinity> Keybuk: And you have a problem with this?
[02:07] <Keybuk> infinity: paint me silly, but I don't think dpkg and apt should disagree on the health of one's system
[02:07] <infinity> apt doesn't support Breaks.
[02:07] <infinity> It just passes --auto-deconfigure, so dpkg deconfigured firefox-themes-ubuntu, but didn't remove it.
[02:08] <infinity> Suboptimal, IMO.
[02:08] <infinity> At least, I'm guessing that's what's happened on your system.
[02:08] <infinity> On mine, firefox-themes-ubuntu is gone, cause I forcefully removed it, so I can't say.
[02:08] <Keybuk> yeah, and when apt does it's --configure -a at the end, you get the error because it tries to configure it
[02:09] <infinity> Yeah, I'm thinking the Breaks implementation is less than perfect right now.
[02:10] <Keybuk> I'm sure it's fine if you only use dselect ;)
[02:10] <jdub> still can't remove dselect
[02:12] <Keybuk> remove-package.py -m '(keybuk) CLM' -b dselect
[02:14] <infinity> Talk of removing dselect makes me sad.
[02:17] <Keybuk> great, now there's a thunderstorm and my dog is trying to become one with my leg
[02:17] <simira> hurrah...
[02:18] <simira> it's supposed to be a thunderstorm here as well, but I can't see it
[02:23] <Keybuk> ya know, I often think that thunderstorms were what first separated the geeks from everyone else back in the times of the caveman
[02:23] <Keybuk> while the rest of the tribe were cowering in the back of the gaves, the proto-geeks were outside going "ooh, pretty lights"
[02:25] <lifeless> according to a recent article, the folk doing cave art were pubescent male teenagers ...
[02:25] <lifeless> cave paintings are graffiti
[02:26] <mjg59> Tch.
[02:26] <mjg59> I need to go out and get passport photos today.
[02:28] <zul> fun fun
[02:28] <Keybuk> lifeless: so the one with the hunters chasing the wildebeest is just a tag?
[02:29] <lifeless> Keybuk: yep. sex and violence is all
[02:29] <icecrash> hi
[02:34] <tseng> Riddell: is it possible that kword could use libwv1?
[02:37] <jdub> odd to boot a machine and get "/dev/hda1 has gone 1375 days without being checked, check forced."
[02:38] <pitti> jdub: holy sh**, 4 years uptime?
[02:38] <Keybuk> how long ago was it last checked?
[02:38] <jdub> pitti: four years closet time, apparently ;-)
[02:38] <lifeless> 1375 days
[02:40] <jdub> it has some blue glassy gnome logo graphical lilo monstrosity
[02:40] <StevenK> jdub: Sounds like Fedora
[02:41] <jdub> nah, it was custom
[02:41] <StevenK> Ew, even worse.
[02:41] <jdub> all my fault
[02:42] <zul> tragic
[02:42] <seb128> Keybuk: could you get glade-3 out of NEW? ;)
[02:42] <Keybuk> seb128: no
[02:42] <seb128> thank you :)
[02:42] <Keybuk> because it's already in accepted ;)
[02:42] <seb128> ah, cool
[02:42] <seb128> thanks ;)
[02:43] <Keybuk> NEW isn't a FIFO, it's more of a FISO
[02:43] <Keybuk> (Shiniest out)
[02:43] <seb128> hehe
[02:44] <seb128> that's also why I pinged, looks like people would like to play with it ;)
[02:44] <Keybuk> (actually it's more that fundamentally it was from a known source and a new version of something already in the archive -- much easier to check)
[02:44] <seb128> pitti: sure :)
[02:44] <Keybuk> pitti: it popped up for valgrind again :-/
[02:47] <Riddell> tseng: I doubt it, you'd have to compile it and see
[02:47] <Riddell> tseng: seems like a downgrade though
[02:47] <mvo> Keybuk: apt does not yet know about breaks at all
[02:48] <mvo> Keybuk: and to make matters worse, apt does not run dpkg --configure -a, but dpkg --configure $list_of_stuff_it_thinks_that_needs_configuring
[02:48] <pitti> Keybuk: added to TODO, will look at it
[03:20] <zul> anyone seen Ben around?
[03:20] <Hobbsee> zul: [23:20]  [Whois]  BenC has been idle for 3 hours, 29 minutes, and 25 seconds.  he might be here
[03:30] <hunger> Hmmm... is libssp supposed to be a part of gcc now or not?
[03:30] <pitti> hunger: it's actually integrated into libc 2.4
[03:31] <hunger> pitti: Ah, great, so it should be removed.
[03:31] <hunger> pitti: I am wondering as I see that lib popping in and out of my system during the last couple of upgrades:-)
[04:02] <mwh_> how can I disable/delete a launchpad account? .. I know I'm asking a wrong place but are there a channel a bit more apropriate?
[04:02] <Hobbsee> mwh_: try #launchpad
[04:04] <mwh_> ah thanks
[04:08] <desrt> is the plan to continue with the current madwifi/madwifi-ng setup for edgy?
[04:09] <mjg59> No
[04:10] <Hobbsee> hi mjg59
[04:21] <desrt> launchpad has some seriously demons inside of it
[04:21] <Keybuk> desrt: edgy already only ships madwifi-ng
[04:21] <desrt> *serious
[04:22] <desrt> it just *butchered* this bug that i tried to comment on
[04:22] <desrt> & it keeps trying to assign it to openoffice.org
[04:22] <desrt> i 'reject' the task and it actually confirms it instead
[04:24] <desrt> Keybuk; so it does.  nice.
[04:37] <bddebian> Howdy
[04:37] <sbalneav> Hey bddebian
[04:38] <sbalneav> Keybuk: can I pick your mighty, mighty udev brain for a sec?
[04:40] <matthewrevell> Hi - I'm working on the next Ubuntu Weekly News. Are there any new apps in Edgy, this week, that you think should be mentioned?
[04:40] <seb128> glade-3 :)
[04:40] <matthewrevell> seb128: Cheers
[04:41] <bddebian> mythtv when someone syncs it for me.. *hint, hint* ;-P
[04:42] <matthewrevell> bddebian: Is that likely to go in this week?
[04:43] <Keybuk> Hobbsee: ping?
[04:43] <Keybuk> sbalneav: sure, what's up?
[04:43] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: heya, what's up?
[04:43] <Hobbsee> oh dear, if Keybuk's pinging me, something must be wrong...
[04:43] <bddebian> matthewrevell: Not likely :-(
[04:43] <Keybuk> Hobbsee: digikam-doc, digikamplugins-doc
[04:43] <matthewrevell> bddebian: ah, okay. Thanks
[04:43] <Keybuk> I can't find any licence in the tarballs
[04:44] <Keybuk> I may be looking in the wrong place
[04:44] <sbalneav> Keybuk: I've got a rule for a floppy link i.e. KERNEL=="fd*", SYMLINK+="floppy"
[04:44] <Keybuk> sbalneav: I'd change that to fd[0-9] * for a start; there are other devices that begin "fd", but carry on
[04:44] <sbalneav> I'd like to fire a RUN of a script, but I want to use the symlink, not the kernel, how'd I do that?
[04:45] <sbalneav> ah, sure.
[04:45] <sbalneav> good point.
[04:45] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: right....i'll have a look here for them.
[04:45] <Keybuk> sbalneav: which symlink?  there may be several
[04:45] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: they came from debian, so...
[04:45] <Keybuk> of course, the obvious answer is  RUN+="/path/to/script /dev/floppy" ;)
[04:46] <sbalneav> Keybuk: On the simlink line?
[04:46] <Keybuk> Hobbsee: aye, the docs contain an &underFDL; I guess that's sufficient *shrug*
[04:46] <Keybuk> sbalneav: sure
[04:46] <sbalneav> Ah!
[04:46] <sbalneav> Brilliant.
[04:46] <Keybuk> though if it were going in an Ubuntu package, it should be later
[04:46] <sbalneav> thanks.
[04:46] <sbalneav> ok, yes it will be, so how would I do that, then? :)
[04:46] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: this one?  http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/d/digikam-doc/digikam-doc_0.8.2-1/digikam-doc.copyright
[04:47] <Keybuk> sbalneav: on Ubuntu, the symlink should be created by 65-$package.rules
[04:47] <Keybuk> and the script should be run by 85-$package.rules
[04:47] <Keybuk> so something like
[04:47] <Keybuk> KERNEL=="foo[0-9] *", SYMLINK+="wibble"
[04:47] <Keybuk> in the first, and
[04:48] <Keybuk> KERNEL=="foo[0-9] *", RUN+="/path/to/script /dev/wibble"
[04:48] <Keybuk> in the second
[04:48] <Keybuk> (though nothing should be making a /dev/floppy symlink for other reasons)
[04:48] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: perhaps more worrying is that i cant seem to find digikamplugins-doc on p.d.o
[04:49] <Keybuk> image plugins
[04:49] <sbalneav> Keybuk: Thanks!
[04:49] <Keybuk> Hobbsee: I'm gonna have to reject them I'm afraid; there really is no Licence in this package
[04:50] <Keybuk> so we have no permission to distribute afaict
[04:50] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: okay, i'll bug allee/toma about it.
[04:50] <Keybuk> yeah, all they need to do is ship one in a file at the top level, and I'd be happy
[04:51] <Keybuk> it's just that right now it's "here's a bunch of code, let's pretend it's under the GFDL without actually saying so"
[04:51] <Hobbsee> i thought you were always happy :P
[04:51] <Hobbsee> yeah, true
[04:51] <Keybuk> or, more pointedly, including any terms saying what they mean by "GFDL"
[04:51] <Keybuk> for all we know, it's the "Go For Desert Licence"
[04:51] <Hobbsee> haha
[04:51] <Hobbsee> true that
[04:51] <bddebian> hehe
[04:52] <bddebian>  Google For Dummies License
[04:52] <Lure> Firefox 2.0 delayed until Oct 24 - what does this mean for Edgy? http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/08/17/firefox_delayed/
[04:53] <bddebian> Hmm, I've killed the conversatation again.. :'-(
[04:53] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: just bugged toma about it, he's the upstream person, it seems
[04:54] <Hobbsee> or at least for debian
[04:55] <Keybuk> bugs have been filed in Debian
[04:55] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: ah.  it's in the docs.  still a dodgy excuse for a licence file.
[04:55] <Keybuk> it's not in the docs
[04:55] <Keybuk> I grepped
[04:55] <Hobbsee> (00:54:19)  Toma: http://docs.kde.org/stable/en/extragear-graphics/digikam/ln-id2486821.html
[04:55] <Hobbsee> (00:54:35)  Toma: it is in the handbook themselfes
[04:55] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: those ones?
[04:56] <seb128> Lure: it means that edgy will likely not get it probably
[04:56] <Keybuk> that paragraph does not appear anywhere in this source
[04:56] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: i'm aware of that.  i've whinged, he'll look at it tonight.
[04:56] <Hobbsee> seb128: dont we already have the alpha in there?  what happens then?
[04:56] <Keybuk> lp_archive@drescher:/tmp/keybuk/digikam-doc-0.8.2$ find doc | xargs grep "Permission is"
[04:56] <Keybuk> lp_archive@drescher:/tmp/keybuk/digikam-doc-0.8.2$
[04:57] <Keybuk> the source MUST contain not only an explicit mention of a licence, but the actual licence text
[04:57] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: true that.  i'm not arguing with you :)
[04:58] <seb128> Hobbsee: no clue
[04:58] <Keybuk> I've mentioned it to the Debian FTP Masters as well
[04:58] <seb128> Hobbsee: need to be discussed probably
[04:58] <Keybuk> it looks like there was a licence file in an earlier version (how it got through Debian NEW)
[04:58] <Keybuk> but it's been dropped
[04:58] <Keybuk> probably an upstream oversight
[04:58] <Hobbsee> ah
[04:59] <seb128> Hobbsee: either firefox 2.0 is on time and consider good enough to be shipped a few days before edgy, or a beta is shipped or firefox is reverted to 1.5
[04:59] <Hobbsee> seb128: right, yep
[05:01] <jdub> seb128: or, there is also the possibility of the day of judgement, at which point the version of firefox becomes relatively uninteresting (depending, of course, on whether the use of free software scores any god points or not)
[05:02] <sbalneav> jdub: Ah! another fellow I was looking for.
[05:02] <seb128> jdub: that too :p
[05:02] <jdub> seb128: should probably factor this into future release plans
[05:02] <jdub> hey sbalneav
[05:02] <sbalneav> jdub: is there a place in gnome where we can call a script or a function that gets executed before gnome-session ends?
[05:03] <jdub> sbalneav: hrm, during logout? not sure. good question.
[05:03] <sbalneav> kind of like .logout, but for gnome-session?
[05:03] <matthewrevell>  /leave
[05:03] <jdub> seb128: ^ ?
[05:03] <Keybuk> slomo: ping
[05:03] <seb128> jdub, sbalneav: I don't think so
[05:04] <sbalneav> seb128: Hum :(
[05:04] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: you've finally decided there are enough syncs to do a whole lot of them again, hey?
[05:04] <Keybuk> Hobbsee: not doing syncs
[05:04] <Keybuk> well, not currently
[05:05] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: eh.  s/syncs/new stuff/
[05:05] <Keybuk> there's not many atm outstanding anyway, I do those a few times a week
[05:05] <Hobbsee> true
[05:05] <Keybuk> same for NEW, do it a few times a week
[05:05] <seb128> sbalneav: maybe one of the gdm scripts can be used for that
[05:05] <Hobbsee> dont you love me creating more work for you?  :P
[05:05] <Keybuk> I'm just rejecting some stuff that's sat in the bottom for a while
[05:05] <bddebian> Uh oh
[05:05] <Hobbsee> ah
[05:06] <Keybuk> not actually much in NEW, certainly nothing's been in there for > 2 weeks
[05:06] <seb128> jdub, sbalneav: PostSession from gdm?
[05:06] <sbalneav> seb128: Unfortunately, this if for Ubuntu's LTSP, which uses ssh for the connection, not gdm
[05:06] <seb128> ah :/
[05:06] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: ah right.  dont think i've requested anything in NEW for a long while, actually
[05:06] <ogra> Keybuk, in 60-symlinks.rules, there is a rule like:
[05:06] <ogra> ENV{ID_CDROM}=="?*",            SYMLINK+="cdrom"
[05:07] <Keybuk> ogra: yes
[05:07] <Keybuk> must get rid of that sometime
[05:07] <ogra> doesnt that mean the /dev/cdrom symlink will only point to the most recently added cdrom ?
[05:07] <Keybuk> s/recently added/randomly picked/
[05:07] <Keybuk> yes
[05:07] <ogra> (in case of multiple usb cdroms for example)
[05:07] <ogra> why doesnt it use cdrom%n ?
[05:08] <Keybuk> no %n for IDE devices?
[05:08] <ogra> hmm
[05:08] <sbalneav> I thought %n was the kernel device number?
[05:08] <Keybuk> and if you have multiple devices, you need some cunning UI to select them
[05:08] <Keybuk> at which point you should be using HAL and offering human names for the devices rather than "/dev/cdrom4"
[05:08] <Keybuk> and then you can just use the proper /dev name instead of a symlink
[05:09] <Keybuk> sbalneav: right, and for IDE devices that's the partition number, which CDs don't have
[05:09] <sbalneav> ah
[05:09] <Keybuk> (and, more pointedly, %n wouldn't work if you had both IDE and SCSI/SATA CD drives
[05:09] <Keybuk> AND you'd end up with /dev/cdrom4 and /dev/cdrom7 rather than 0 and 1
[05:10] <Keybuk> I didn't want to ship those symlinks in dapper, but mdz sulked and made me
[05:10] <jdong|coreduo> Keybuk: are you a part of ubuntu-archive?
[05:10] <Keybuk> jdong|coreduo: yes
[05:10] <jdong|coreduo> Keybuk: what is the status of handling backports syncs?
[05:10] <Keybuk> jdong|coreduo: there is no status
[05:11] <jdong|coreduo> i.e. will it ever happen?
[05:11] <Keybuk> judging by the increasingly large pile, I would guess that I'm not alone in wondering why they're assigned to us
[05:11] <Keybuk> we have no idea how to do it
[05:11] <Keybuk> or even if it's possible
[05:11] <jdong|coreduo> mdz and others told me more than a month back that it's ready to be done
[05:11] <Keybuk> they missed the "tell the people who have to do it" part out :)
[05:12] <jdong|coreduo> :)
[05:12] <Keybuk> I asked mdz a while back, and he said there was some code, somewhere in some file that's long since been deleted, that did it
[05:12] <Keybuk> or something
[05:12] <jdong|coreduo> according to mdz: "backports are exactly like syncs, but with a trivially modified source
[05:12] <jdong|coreduo> package.  mia.py in the katie suite contains the relevant bits."
[05:12] <Keybuk> it was very vague and hand-wavy
[05:13] <jdong|coreduo> well.... how should this situation be handled, in your opinion?
[05:13] <Keybuk> right, that's not a useful procedure
[05:13] <Keybuk> *shrug* someone figure out how to do backports with the LP archive tools
[05:13] <Keybuk> write the appropriate code, if necessary
[05:13] <jdong|coreduo> ok.... :)
[05:13] <Keybuk> write a procedure for the ubuntu-archive guys
[05:13] <sbalneav> Thanks for the enlightenment, keybuck!
[05:13] <jdong|coreduo> well, I'm completely clueless on how things work inside the LP/ubuntu-archive world :)
[05:13] <Keybuk> if there's LP code required, you'd need a LP spec and time from the developers
[05:14] <jdong|coreduo> ok
[05:15] <Keybuk> I originally figured it was just me that missed the memo
[05:15] <Keybuk> but nobody else has dealt with them either
[05:15] <jdong|coreduo> interesting....
[05:15] <jdong|coreduo> well, I just e-mailed mdz about the situation....
[05:17] <jdong|coreduo> btw, for Edgy, is there any plan of getting ClamAV in main?
[05:17] <jdong|coreduo> it really deserves a lot more security update attention than it's getting
[05:17] <Keybuk> jdong|coreduo: is there a spec for that?
[05:18] <jdong|coreduo> I'm not sure
[05:18] <jdong|coreduo> but having all versions of clamav except Edgy vulnerable currently is just absurd!
[05:18] <Keybuk> no spec = no plan
[05:21] <Keybuk> jdong|coreduo: well, in the ideal world; you'd go to a web interface in Launchpad, select the source package you wanted, and the target backport archive, and click "Sync"
[05:21] <Keybuk> and it'd just add a second publishing record for the target distro
[05:22] <jdong|coreduo> I see
[05:22] <Keybuk> however syncs at the moment are still very much by hand, downloading a source, generating a changes file, and uploading it
[05:22] <jdong|coreduo> hmm
[05:25] <infinity> Keybuk: Err, it can't just be a copied SPR, because it needs a mangled changelog and version number.
[05:25] <infinity> Keybuk: That's what mia did.
[05:26] <Keybuk> why do they need to be mangled?
[05:26] <Keybuk> and I thought you went to bed? :p
[05:26] <jdong|coreduo> Keybuk: the version number needs "~dapper1" appended
[05:26] <jdong|coreduo> to make sure that come Edgy, the package would get overridden/upgraded properly
[05:27] <Keybuk> see, like I said, nobody explained backports to the poor muggins who has to do them <g>
[05:28] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: that's cos you're supposed to know everything?
[05:28] <bddebian> Aye :-(
[05:28] <jdong|coreduo> lol
[05:28] <Hobbsee> mmm....backports...
[05:28] <bluefoxicy> so is anyone else seeing apt refuse to install anything
[05:28] <bluefoxicy> for the past 2 days now, in edgy?
[05:28] <jdong|coreduo> so, again, at this point, what needs to be done for backports to get working?
[05:28] <Hobbsee> bluefoxicy: not really enough info.
[05:29] <bluefoxicy> Hobbsee:  firefox breaks firefox-themes-ubuntu (<= 0.4.5)
[05:29] <Keybuk> jdong|coreduo: apparently we need a Soyuz version of "mia"
[05:29] <infinity> bluefoxicy: apt-get --purge install firefox firefox-themes-ubuntu-
[05:29] <Hobbsee> we're waiting on upstream's changelog.  mutter.
[05:29] <Hobbsee> bluefoxicy: ah right.  i dont run the repo'd firefox
[05:29] <bluefoxicy> infinity:  nod.
[05:29] <Keybuk> bluefoxicy: purge firefox-themes-ubuntu
[05:29] <jdong|coreduo> Keybuk: ok.... that seems out of my realm... :)
[05:30] <bluefoxicy> Hobbsee:  well, apt is 1) Claiming I have broken packages, which NEED to be fixed before I can do anything; 2) Refusing to fix it, because the packages that I need will kill eachother in bloody, gorey death.
[05:30] <infinity> Keybuk: I am in bed.  Honest.
[05:30] <bluefoxicy> Keybuk:  that's what infinity just said.  :)
[05:30] <bddebian> heh
[05:30] <Hobbsee> haha
[05:30] <jdong|coreduo> bluefoxicy: tried using dpkg to slap apt around a bit? :)
[05:30] <Hobbsee> infinity: yes, but you arent asleep.
[05:30] <Keybuk> bluefoxicy: yeah, edgy bug
[05:31] <infinity> bluefoxicy: "dpkg --force-depends -P firefox-themes-ubuntu" would fix you up too.
[05:31] <Keybuk> dpkg supports Breaks, apt hasn't a clue about it
[05:31] <jdong|coreduo> oh well, clamav's not my problem anymore :)
[05:31] <infinity> Hobbsee: LIES.
[05:31] <Hobbsee> infinity: why do you want to be in bed yet anyway?  it's not that late...
[05:31] <bluefoxicy> Keybuk:  ah.  I'm assuming also the firefox-themes-ubuntu needs an upload that hasn't happened yet?
[05:31] <infinity> Hobbsee: No, it's not, but I have a morning meeting, followed by a reasonably full day.
[05:31] <bluefoxicy> infinity:  ooh, I don't have to have the package file already?  :D
[05:32] <Keybuk> bluefoxicy: right
[05:32] <Hobbsee> infinity: ouchy.  that's right, 9am.
[05:32] <Hobbsee> infinity: good thing you dont have to be at CC/TB - if you're in my timezone...
[05:38] <Keybuk> I can't be the only one who imagines people trawling Malone adding "GROVE STREET 4 EVA" to bugs whenever I hear about people "tagging" them, can I?
[05:38] <bddebian> Nope :-)
[05:39] <Spads> dd?
[05:39] <Spads> mcm
[05:40] <doko> infinity, cprov: please requeue gcc-snapshot on powerpc
[05:41] <desrt> zul; i wonder if you realise that the xen-doc package is a copy of the kernel source code in which each file has been individually gzipped?
[05:42] <Keybuk> doko: done
[05:42] <zul> desrt: hmm.....good point
[05:42] <zul> that was not the intention
[05:42] <doko> Keybuk: thanks
[05:43] <bddebian> OK, this is killing me..
[05:43] <bddebian> make: execvp: ./configure: Permission denied
[05:43] <bddebian> make: *** [configure]  Error 127
[05:43] <desrt> zul; i sort of assumed as much :)
[05:43] <bddebian> And yes configure is 0755
[05:43] <zul> desrt: ill fix it in the next upload
[05:43] <desrt> nice
[05:47] <cortez> sorry to kinda ask a support question in here, but #ubuntu is a bit of a cesspit right now
[05:47] <cortez> using strace I found that by having en_GB in $LANGUAGE, 'dd' is crashing because it can't find potfiles apparently
[05:48] <Keybuk> yeah, it does
[05:48] <cortez> so I tried to generate new locales, but 'dpkg-reconfigure -plow locales' doesn't work like in debian
[05:48] <infinity> doko: Kay.
[05:48] <Keybuk> cortez: that doesn't fix it anyway
[05:48] <doko> infinity: Keybuk already did it
[05:48] <cortez> Keybuk: oh, I see
[05:49] <cortez> Keybuk: well, what's the equivalent to that in ubuntu, anyway?
[05:49] <infinity> doko: Ahh, so he did.
[05:49] <Keybuk> cortez: the same thing
[05:49] <Keybuk> bddebian: noexec?
[05:49] <cortez> on my box, it just regenerates locales
[05:49] <zul> ok installer question what if the user chooses the username root what would happen?
[05:49] <Keybuk> cortez: right, what were you expecting?
[05:50] <cortez> on debian I'd get a curses screen asking me which locales I wanted to enable or disable
[05:50] <Keybuk> zul: try it, let us know
[05:50] <infinity> Keybuk: It used to offer a choice of locales to generate, until dapper.
[05:50] <Keybuk> we moved that somewhere else, didn't we?
[05:50] <infinity> cortez: You want to install language-pack-en-base to get en_GB, but I suspect you already have it.
[05:51] <cortez> is there a bug report on this en_GB/dd crash issue, or should I file one?
[05:51] <bddebian> Keybuk: ?
[05:51] <Keybuk> infinity: he does already have it
[05:51] <infinity> cortez: It's a known bug, IIRC.
[05:51] <cortez> infinity: yeah, I do
[05:51] <infinity> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/coreutils/+bug/42264
[05:51] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 42264 in rosetta "locale dependant segfault for dd" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]
[05:54] <infinity> cortez: Anyhow, "LANG=C dd ..." should work.
[05:54] <infinity> cortez: Not ideal, but yay bugs.
[05:54] <lastnode> infinity, ping when you've got a sec?
[05:55] <infinity> lastnode: I have a sec now, I suppose.
[05:56] <lastnode> infinity, im trying to figure out which logs to attach for which situation
[05:56] <lastnode> if you're free now, or later, please consider dropping by #taprobane, im trying to sort out the list with a friend of mine
[05:58] <infinity> lastnode: Well, I'm heading to bed now, so if it's more than 2 or 3 mins, best for you to drop me an email, perhaps.
[05:59] <lastnode> infinity, sure
[05:59] <lastnode> ill do that, then
[05:59] <lastnode> or ill catch you on irc later
[05:59] <infinity> lastnode: Or that, sure.
[06:01] <cortez> infinity: yeah, it's just weird.  I noticed this when I tried to install pdnsd
[06:07] <bddebian> Keybuk: What do you mean by noexec?
[06:07] <Keybuk> bddebian: is the filesystem mounted noexec?
[06:08] <Keybuk> is the dynamic link loader +x ?
[06:08] <Keybuk> is the #! line of configure right ?
[06:08] <Keybuk> is that +x ?
[06:08] <Keybuk> are either, or all three, on a filesystem mounted noexec
[06:08] <Keybuk> selinux, or some other crazy-arsed system?
[06:13] <bddebian> Keybuk: Dunno it's pbuilder
[06:13] <bddebian> Keybuk: It was working until I added two dpatches
[06:19] <bddebian> Gaw this is pissing me off
[06:21] <toma> Keybuk: ping
[06:27] <Keybuk> toma: hi
[06:27] <toma> Keybuk: hi, got a second for digikam*
[06:27] <toma> Keybuk: what do you need to let it go through? a new upstream tarball?
[06:28] <Keybuk> sure, what's up?
[06:28] <Keybuk> yes, upstream need to release a new tarball with the licence text in it
[06:28] <toma> Keybuk: allright, the statement within the doc is not enough?
[06:29] <bddebian> Keybuk: Sorry to bug you but any more ideas?
[06:29] <Keybuk> toma: there is no statement within the doc
[06:30] <toma> Keybuk: hu? there should be
[06:30] <toma> let me check that
[06:31] <stub> carlos: I'm running the translation copy scripts at the moment
[06:35] <toma> Keybuk: they have the underFDL and underGPL entities in the docbook
[06:35] <BenC> Keybuk: well, I searched all of ubuntu/+bugs for devpts and sparc separately (15 bugs matched) and no sign of it
[06:35] <toma> Keybuk: as usual those get expanded to the text from kdelibs
[06:36] <elmo> BenC: ok, it's not mounted at that stage
[06:36] <Keybuk> toma: that is not a full licence text
[06:37] <toma> Keybuk: it would surprise me if all KDE packages with docs carry the complete text
[06:37] <elmo> james@faure:~$ grep mount /dev/LOGFILE  | grep devpts
[06:37] <elmo> + domount devpts /dev/pts -ogid=5,mode=620
[06:37] <elmo> + mount -n -t devpts -ogid=5,mode=620 devpts /dev/pts
[06:37] <Keybuk> the phrase "&underFDL;" contains no permission for Ubuntu to distribute and modify the source code
[06:37] <Keybuk> toma: it would greatly surprise me if they did _not_
[06:37] <Keybuk> usually it's in the COPYING file at the top
[06:37] <Keybuk> elmo: right, so I'm not going entirely insane
[06:38] <BenC> elmo: suck, it's actually working now
[06:38] <Keybuk> BenC: though partially, it appears I'm getting premonitions of future bugs
[06:38] <BenC> it mounted correctly
[06:39] <elmo> benc: doh
[06:39] <elmo> I wonder if it's because we remount it in the chroots?
[06:39] <elmo> maybe that somehow affects the one in base?
[06:39] <BenC> the chroots don't bind mount?
[06:39] <elmo> benc: no, they directly mount, like:
[06:39] <elmo> devpts-edgy /srv/chroots/edgy/dev/pts devpts gid=5,mode=0620 0 0
[06:40] <elmo> except that use to say 'defaults' not 'gid=5,mode=0620'
[06:40] <BenC> elmo: but then it should have worked all along
[06:40] <BenC> ah
[06:40] <BenC> elmo: I think that may have broken it then for your systems
[06:41] <BenC> elmo: FYI, doing "mount -o bind /dev/pts /chroots/foo/dev/pts" works well
[06:41] <BenC> it actually does what you want
[06:41] <BenC> I use it for my chroots for proc,dev/pts,sys
[06:43] <BenC> elmo: confirmed, if I mount my chroot devpts normally, and use -odefaults, then it breaks the root dev/pts
[06:44] <toma> Keybuk: cant find it for kdepim for example
[06:44] <Keybuk> BenC: ok, this is just freaky ... I can find no discussion about this in my IRC logs ... and no e-mail either
[06:44] <Riddell> toma: in kdepim the source files all have GPL notices
[06:45] <BenC> Keybuk: that was one wicked dream you must have had about this :)
[06:45] <Keybuk> BenC: I'll have cheese sandwiches again tonight and see if I get anymore <g>
[06:45] <bddebian> hmm
[06:45] <Keybuk> edgy may turn out to be the most bug-free release yet!  the secret, a developer who fortells the bugs before they happen
[06:45] <toma> Riddell: but no full fdl text in the root
[06:46] <BenC> hehe
[06:46] <BenC> Keybuk: you can be like that woman on Medium, except you'll forsee security vulns and we can fix them preemptively
[06:47] <Keybuk> toma: so it doesn't
[06:47] <Keybuk> the sources do contain COPYING files though
[06:47] <Keybuk> but those are for the GPL
[06:48] <BenC> Keybuk: Wasn't cr3 having this problem on a machine without chroots?
[06:48] <BenC> a machine he had locally?
[06:49] <seaLne> but would killing Keybuk mean there would never be any bugs? :)
[06:49] <toma> Keybuk: oki, so for this package the text is required, but not for kdepim, right?
[06:51] <toma> Keybuk: is it ok for the next version of the docs tarball or are you refucing these?
[06:51] <Keybuk> BenC: ah! that could be it
[06:52] <Keybuk> yes it was
[06:53] <Keybuk> BenC: and I bet he was running his LTP tests in a chroot
[06:53] <Keybuk> there's a chroot in his mtab
[06:53] <BenC> ok, I think we nailed it down then
[06:54] <Keybuk> toma: I have rejected those
[06:54] <Keybuk> also, Riddell, could you look at the other KDE docs and make sure they include the full FDL text somewhere if that's indeed their licence
[06:54] <Keybuk> toma: it's required for kdepim, however for sanity's sake, I won't remove that from our archive yet
[06:57] <allee> Keybuk: a full copy of GFDL is in most of the debian/copyright.
[06:58] <allee> Keybuk: true for digikam*-doc
[06:59] <Keybuk> debian/copyright is _NOT_ permission from upstream
[07:00] <Keybuk> I mean, guys, this is the most basic tenet of packaging
[07:01] <Keybuk> if the upstream tarball contains nothing that gives us permission to distribute or copy it
[07:01] <allee> Keybuk: of course.  Permission get's included via &underFDL ;)
[07:01] <Keybuk> then we DO NOT have permission
[07:01] <bddebian> Hence is the problem with scourge :-(
[07:01] <Keybuk> dude, that is not text giving us permission
[07:01] <allee> Keybuk: I don't argue that there is nothing missing.  thing is what should be added.  (e.g. it's a bug in (our) release script that there's no copy of the GFDL in the tarball)
[07:02] <Keybuk> we don't know what the "underFDL" attribute does
[07:02] <Keybuk> for all we know, it could expand to a picture of Eric Raymond's butt
[07:02] <bddebian> Frightening :-)
[07:02] <Keybuk> right, the upstream tarballs need to contain a copy of the FDL somewhere, _and_ the source should ideally contain a comment saying that it is licenced under that
[07:02] <kylem> suddenly, i'm not hungry anymore.
[07:02] <allee> Keybuk: you have to hack deeply in the build system to get something else then GFDL without any invariant section ;)
[07:02] <bddebian> kylem: :-)
[07:02] <Keybuk> a top-level FDL file would imply that though
[07:03] <Keybuk> allee: of course, the point is that somebody has to hack pretty deeply to discover that it's the GFDL that they're getting
[07:04] <allee> Keybuk: yes, and no.  Just compile it.  That the way I did (and therefore didn't noticed your objections)
[07:04] <Keybuk> that only gives us permission to distribute the compiled result though
[07:04] <Keybuk> the source still doesn't contain permission to be distributed (or modified)
[07:05] <allee> Keybuk: I assume you it's not enough to add a LGFL copy + a KDE standard doc license into the README?
[07:05] <Keybuk> that's enough
[07:06] <Keybuk> basically just as long as there's some text somewhere saying "you can distribute and modify this"
[07:07] <allee> Okay.  that's  quickly fixed.
[07:08] <allee> toma: I'm sure you will not find it there.  I pesters Renchi with lots of stuff missing.  But obviously did some fixes by hand, not adding to -doc release script :(
[07:09] <Keybuk> allee: thanks
[07:09] <allee> Keybuk: thx for your fresh eye.  They spot stuff other that looked dozend of times at it are unable to see anymore
[07:10] <Keybuk> allee: heh, is a pretty standard NEW check ;)
[07:15] <bddebian> OK, I totally regenerated the package and now it builds fine locally on Dapper but fails on an Edgy pbuilder build
[07:16] <Keybuk> bddebian: still permission denied?
[07:16] <bddebian> Yes :-(
[07:16] <Keybuk> bddebian: tried strace?
[07:16] <Keybuk> so at least we know what is failing
[07:16] <bddebian> No, I've never used it :-(
[07:17] <Keybuk> what fails?
[07:17] <Keybuk> $ ./configure
[07:17] <Keybuk> ?
[07:17] <bddebian> Yes
[07:17] <bddebian> dh_testdir
[07:17] <bddebian> ./configure --prefix=/usr
[07:17] <bddebian> make: execvp: ./configure: Permission denied
[07:17] <bddebian> make: *** [configure]  Error 127
[07:17] <Keybuk> can you pastebin the *entire* output?
[07:17] <bddebian> Sure
[07:18] <bddebian> Keybuk: http://pastebin.us/3287
[07:19] <Keybuk> ok, change the package so there's an "ls -l ./configure" just before that line
[07:19] <Keybuk> and try again
[07:20] <desrt> -rw-r--r--
[07:21] <bddebian> Keybuk: OK, thx
[07:27] <mdz> Keybuk: are you sure about a top-level copy of the license being sufficient?  surely an explicit statement that the license applies to the software is necessary somewhere
[07:28] <Keybuk> mdz: we've never enforced that in the past?
[07:28] <Keybuk> there are many sources which contain a just a COPYING file
[07:28] <mdz> I know it's not been enforced by us or Debian, but it's always seemed fishy to me
[07:29] <mdz> er, why are we now mailing edgy-changes with every binary build?
[07:30] <bddebian> I was wondering that also
[07:31] <bddebian> Keybuk, desrt: You were correct
[07:32] <bddebian> ls -l ./configure
[07:32] <bddebian> -rw-r--r-- 1 pbuilder pbuilder 733412 Aug 17 17:24 ./configure
[07:32] <bddebian> But how am I getting that in the package?  Am I going to have to chmod in rules?
[07:37] <desrt> bddebian; i checked.  patch will preserve +x, so it's not that.
[07:37] <desrt> bddebian; a quick chmod +x is a workaround that would definitely work...
[07:39] <infinity> mdz: Soyuz bug, malcc's on it.
[07:44] <mdz> infinity: #launchpad said the same, thanks
[07:44] <bddebian> desrt: Thx but is it "correct" ?
[07:45] <desrt> bddebian; what is "correct" is to find out what unsets +x on ./configure and beat it
[07:45] <bddebian> What's weird is dpkg-buildpackage -us -nc... oh
[07:45] <bddebian> Maybe it's clean
[08:01] <bddebian> Shouldn't dh_fixperms -Xconfigure work?
[08:05] <desrt> that would be a somewhat cleaner way
[08:05] <bddebian> Doesn't seem to work :-(
[08:05] <desrt> -X is exclude, you know
[08:05] <desrt> that means "fix all but configure"
[08:05] <bddebian> Right
[08:06] <desrt> i think it's for post-install, though
[08:06] <bddebian> Oh
[08:06] <desrt> like, it does fixups in the install root
[08:07] <desrt> if you really care to fix it properly do an ls -l configure at every point in the makefile
[08:07] <desrt> and figure out at which point it is losing +x
[08:07] <desrt> if not, just chmod +x it and be done
[08:20] <bddebian> desrt: dpkg-buildpackage -S -sa doesn't run make does it?  Other than the clean rule?
[08:31] <desrt> bddebian; the entire debian/rules file is a gigantic makefile
[08:31] <bddebian> Aye
[08:34] <desrt> are you still on this same problem? :)
[08:35] <bddebian> Yes :(
[08:39] <bddebian> I'm getting to the point of just doing chmod +x but I hate doing things "wrong"
[08:41] <dmg> bddebian: ./configure's getting generated with the wrong permissions?
[08:42] <dmg> bddebian: where is it being created from?
[08:42] <dmg> patch?
[08:43] <bddebian> No, the permissions are correct until I make the source package
[08:44] <dmg> so it's something in the source package creation steps that remove the '-x'
[08:46] <bddebian> Aye but I can't figure out why
[08:48] <dmg> what programs run when the source package is generated?
[08:51] <dmg> bddebian: I think keybuk is right -- strace would help here if you could narrow down the program that was actually changing the permissions.
[08:52] <dmg> strace -o buildpackages.out -ff dpkg-buildpackage ....
[08:53] <dmg> the grep through buildpackages for calls to chmod or other calls referencing configure
[08:54] <dmg> not the most elegant way to solve your problem, but if something's changing the perms of that file, strace will catch it.
[08:54] <Keybuk> something in the clean rule, usually
[08:54] <Keybuk> or the configure script isn't in the tarball, but created by the diff.gz
[08:55] <Keybuk> bddebian: perhaps you could upload the source somewhere for more eyes?
[08:55] <dmg> which was why I asked if it ./configure was generated by patch
[08:58] <bddebian> Keybuk: configure isn't in the tarball.  I had to do an autoreconf to generate it :-(
[09:02] <Keybuk> ok, that _should_ generate it +x then
[09:07] <sabdf1> how do I make a moin page redirect somewhere else?
[09:10] <bddebian> Keybuk: It did but something changes it on building the source package
[09:12] <Seveas> sabdfl, #REFRESH 0 http://somwhere/else
[09:14] <bddebian> Keybuk: http://www2.bddebian.com:8000/packages/ubuntu/prismstumbler/  if you are interested at all :-)
[09:15] <simira> I have an issue where Edgy seems to logout my session automatically after a while, or just drop my login; is this anything known?
[09:23] <sabdfl> Seveas: thanks!
[09:24] <sabdfl> wow, FF2 tab closing is spectacularly innovative and sadly wrong
[09:26] <zul> heh
[09:30] <Keybuk> sabdfl: I didn't notice anything special about it?
[09:32] <sladen> simira: it's a bug even if it's not known yet!  And still needs reporting :
[09:32] <sladen> )
[09:32] <simira> sladen: appearantly. Just have to figure out where. And what...
[09:33] <sladen> simira: gnome-session is maybe a good place to start, then the desktop wizards can repoint it as they help you debug it
[09:34] <simira> sladen: yes. I intend to test it now, so I'll be idle for a little bit ;)
[09:35] <sabdfl> Keybuk: it clutters up the tab bar, and changes behaviour based on the number of tabs
[09:35] <simira> Just have to make someone change my wikiname first... who can do that?
[09:35] <sabdfl> the old behaviour was preferable, imo
[09:35] <Keybuk> sabdfl: right, I don't get what's "innovative" about it ?
[09:35] <Keybuk> it's now the same as every other app on the desktop
[09:35] <Keybuk> or is this some Microsoft definition of "innovation"? :p
[09:35] <bddebian> doh
[09:36] <Amaranth> Keybuk: I think the "innovative" bit is what happens when you have 20 tabs open.
[09:37] <sladen> simira: Happy Wedding 12th day wedding anniversary btw
[09:37] <zul> oh the scrolling bit?
[09:37] <tseng> simira: oh wow I had no idea, congrats
[09:37] <tseng> simira: (well, i knew of the engagement)
[09:38] <poningru> there is an md5 mismatch in the sources list for main
[09:38] <poningru> edgy
[09:38] <poningru> who do I report that to?
[09:38] <simira> sladen, tseng : thanks
[09:38] <tseng> its most likely not a real problem
[09:39] <tseng> proxies ocassionally break apt checksums in my experience
[09:39] <poningru> ah ok
[09:39] <poningru> thanks
[09:40] <tseng> if it is, it will be noticed and fixed.
[09:40] <Keybuk> Amaranth: the close button is no longer hidden under the right-most tab? :p
[09:40] <sladen> tseng: the NTL transparent proxies in the UK are a classic for doing that
[09:40] <tseng> sladen: :/
[09:40] <Amaranth> Keybuk: the close buttons disappear for all but the currently focused tab
[09:40] <tseng> sladen: fortunately for me its self-imposed by apt-proxy
[09:41] <tseng> or maybe by the web proxy in front of apt-proxy
[09:43] <Keybuk> Amaranth: really, it doesn't do that here/
[09:44] <Amaranth> Keybuk: open a shitload of tabs
[09:45] <Amaranth> interesting, shitload is a valid word in whatever dictionary xchat-gnome is using...
[09:45] <poningru> http://kb.mozillazine.org/Browser.tabs.closeButtons
[09:45] <poningru> to switch back
[09:45] <poningru> Amaranth: rofl
[09:45] <HiddenWolf> Amaranth: xchat-gnome has issues, nothing new there. :)
[09:45] <Amaranth> i use epiphany :P
[09:46] <Amaranth> I wish epiphany had support for fx2's spell checking. I can see that words are spelled wrong but I can't get spelling suggestions.
[09:52] <Keybuk> Amaranth: oh, I see
[09:52] <Keybuk> that is very wrong
[09:59] <bddebian> Damnit, do I really want to write a manpage? :-(
[10:00] <slomo> bddebian: it would be nice to have at least ;) for which package?
[10:00] <bddebian> slomo: prismstumbler :-(
[10:01] <bddebian> And of course --help doesn't work so I can't even use help2man :'-(
[10:02] <slomo> hm... so better write one... otherwise people won't know how to use it ;)
[10:03] <welshbyte> bddebian: can't you take appropriate paragraphs from http://prismstumbler.projects.linuxtogo.org/ ? looks like the info is all there...
[10:23] <Keybuk> doko: ping?
[10:37] <bddebian> welshbyte: I probably can, I'm just lazy and I really don't care about this package other than closing two bugs ;-P
[10:44] <bddebian> Is there any kind manpage generator package?
[10:44] <Seveas> bddebian, vim
[10:45] <pitti> bddebian: pod2anything, there is also a pod2man
[10:46] <bddebian> pod?
[10:46] <bddebian> Seveas: Nano man, come on :-)
[10:46] <Seveas> bddebian, ptfah
[10:47] <LaserJock> I'm sure emacs has a mode for it
[10:47] <LaserJock> but it'd take me longer to figure out the mode then write the manpage by hand
[10:48] <bddebian> Exactly :-)
[10:49] <desrt> cc1: error: invalid option argument '-O0''
[10:49] <desrt> that's a new one.
[10:49] <Seveas> LaserJock, http://ubuntu-nl.org/~dennis/curves.jpg
[10:49] <Seveas> desrt, did you see the extra ' there
[10:49] <desrt> hmmmm
[10:49] <LaserJock> Seveas: hehe
[10:49] <Seveas> probably you give it -O0' as argument
[10:49] <bddebian> Seveas: Hahaha
[10:50] <LaserJock> Seveas: some days, that's what it feels like for sure
[10:50] <Seveas> LaserJock, I've been forced to touch emacs. I felt violated and never want to touch it again
[10:50] <LaserJock> well, I fell in love with planner-el
[10:50] <doko> Keybuk: pong
[10:50] <LaserJock> that's my reason for using emacs
[10:51] <LaserJock> that and I can do some real quick data cleaning with it
[10:51] <Keybuk> doko: is gnat deliberately dropped from the older gcc sources?
[10:53] <doko> Keybuk: yeah, need to update gcc-defaults ...
[10:56] <doko> Keybuk: wait, I did update gcc-defaults, still in NEW?
[10:56] <Keybuk> no, I'm just going through the outdate stuff looking for NBS
[10:57] <allee> Keybuk: these will be READMEs in the next -doc tarballs: http://websvn.kde.org/branches/stable/extragear/graphics/digikam/README-doc?rev=574022&view=markup and http://websvn.kde.org/branches/stable/extragear/graphics/digikamimageplugins/README-doc?rev=574028&view=markup
[10:57] <doko> NBS?
[11:01] <Keybuk> doko: Not Built (by) Source
[11:01] <Keybuk> allee: that appears to contain licence text :)
[11:02] <allee> Keybuk: yeah.  I thought about adding COPYING.gfdl but decided to put all in one file
[11:44] <sabdfl> night all
[11:47] <rodarvus> doko, do you have plans to make python 2.5 the default for Edgy?
[11:47] <rodarvus> (just curious :) )
[11:48] <doko> rodarvus: no, probably not, although we will provide all modules and extensions for 2.5 as well.
[11:49] <doko> let's talk about it next week
[11:49] <rodarvus> *nods* surely, thanks!