[12:18] <kwwii> nope, neither of those is in kde itself
[12:18] <fdoving> manchicken: could you make an option in adept-notifier to go back to start, like if you cancel an update, instead of the one option you have, to quit and start over, 'go back to fetch list of packages' or whatever it's named.
[12:18] <kwwii> we should probably ping the maintainers
[12:18] <yuriy> ryanakca: wrt your 2nd item, i have both kde and gnome installed, and in my kmenu konsole is in system and gnome-terminal is in utilities
[12:18] <fdoving> manchicken: should i file a wishlist bug for that?
[12:18] <manchicken> Wishlist please
[12:18] <Sho_> kwwii: What sort of changes has Kubuntu made to Domino?
[12:18] <kwwii> Sho_: none so far
[12:19] <Jucato> Sho_: none
[12:19] <Jucato> we don't even have a package yet :)
[12:19] <DaSkreech> Riddell: Maybe we should have a set of meetings that focus on nothing but hard to decide items
[12:19] <kwwii> Sho_: but we are discussing it for Gutsy
[12:19] <kwwii> Sho_: check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MartinB%c3%b6hm/Meetings/KubuntuGutsyPolyester
[12:19] <Sho_> kwwii: It's principal developer is Michael Lentner, but I have been involved with its development recently. I'd appreciate to be kept in the loop on changes.
[12:19] <ryanakca> yuriy: hmmm
[12:20] <kwwii> Sho_: excellent! we can use all the help we can get :-)
[12:20] <Jucato> yuriy: yes, GNOME has recently changed the location of their terminal app. not sure if fd.o agrees with the category
[12:20] <yuriy> ryanakca: as in ubuntu and kubuntu disagree on where konsole/terminal should be placed, it seems
[12:20] <kwwii> mhb: hear that? we need to keep in contact with Sho_
[12:20] <ryanakca> yeah
[12:20] <yuriy> it's under "accessories" in gnome in feisty
[12:21] <Hobbsee> DaSkreech: we have a mailing list for that.
[12:21] <ryanakca> We'll have to bug seele about that
[12:21] <mhb> Sho_: are you on IRC?
[12:21] <mhb> often
[12:21] <Sho_> mhb: By virtue of being Konversation's maintainer, I'm an IRC addict - the client is online 24/7, yeah
[12:21] <DaSkreech> Hobbsee: Right
[12:21] <Sho_> mhb: And for async, there's hein-AT-kde-DOT.org
[12:22] <Hobbsee> DaSkreech: as in, because people dont have time for 5 hour meetings or whatever
[12:22] <mhb> Sho_: really? :o)
[12:22] <kwwii> Sho_: you are konverstaion maintainer! rocking!
[12:22] <mhb> yeah, rocking indeed
[12:22] <Sho_> :)
[12:22] <kwwii> the best irc client in the world
[12:22] <Jucato> ++
[12:23] <kwwii> I argued for that for years at suse
[12:23] <kwwii> but Will would not allow it ;-)
[12:23] <Sho_> I think coolo changed his mind after Kubuntu switched to it ;)
[12:23] <Sho_> 10.2 installs it, iirc
[12:23] <kwwii> lol, that sounds like coolo
[12:23] <Sho_> Fedora 7 does too, now, in the KDE spin
[12:24] <Jucato> mandriva, fedora, suse, all install Konvi now :)
[12:27] <mhb> Sho_: hmm, an interesting agenda point
[12:27] <Sho_> mhb: just edited again, maybe reload :)
[12:28] <mhb> Sho_: by the way, where will the tabs be for KDE4?
[12:29] <mhb> Sho_: I've seen konsole with tabs up, so I wonder
[12:29] <Sho_> mhb: We're going to stick to the bottom from our end
[12:30] <mhb> I like the apps being consistent on this one
[12:30] <Sho_> mhb: For Konvi it's even more clear cut than for Konsole, as we use the tab bar for state notification in the different views, and the chatter's eyesight tends to hover at the bottom of the window due to new text being appended there and the input line being there as well
[12:30] <Hobbsee> argh, tabs discussion
[12:30] <Sho_> mhb: Having to constantly shift the line of sight from the top to the bottom would be rather awkward
[12:30] <kwwii> Sho_: I totally agree with your points
[12:30] <mhb> Hobbsee: don't look here, you're supposed to be at the meeting
[12:31] <kwwii> tabs should be in the same position in all similar apps - there is no reason to do it differently
[12:31] <Hobbsee> mhb: they're not really listening ot me so much, so... :P
[12:31] <mhb> Hobbsee: we all know you're Sarah "Two Sheds" Hobbs
[12:31] <Sho_> Yes - I think Konsole, Kopete and, well, Konvi, should put them at the bottom
[12:31] <kwwii> that is the one thing that sabdfl is fighting for in ubuntu
[12:31] <mhb> kwwii: putting them at the bottom?
[12:32] <kwwii> mhb: not necessarily where they are, but they should all be in the same place
[12:32] <kwwii> I actually use konvi with tabs on the left because I have so many open, but that is not the point
[12:32] <Sho_> Well I wrote the treelist, I like it too
[12:33] <Jucato> kwwii: ditto :)
[12:33] <Sho_> but I still think the bottom default makes more sense ;)
[12:33] <kwwii> a new user needs to expect thing to be in the same place for different apps
[12:33] <mhb> kwwii: oh, I'm fighting for that, too :o
[12:33] <mhb> kwwii: in Kubuntu
[12:33] <Hobbsee> we get shot when we change it, but we get shot not changing it too, because it's not hte default
[12:33] <mhb> kwwii: but people like the bottom tabs, so I can't do much :o)
[12:34] <kwwii> mhb: they should probably all be at the bottom, that is my point
[12:34] <kwwii> Hobbsee: it is not bikeshedding, it is usability
[12:35] <Hobbsee> kwwii: i realise that.  actually, what i'd *like* is a decision that this is what we'll do, and that we dont change it again without agreement from the KC
[12:35] <Hobbsee> as this keeps changing every release or so, and it's nuts.
[12:35] <kwwii> Hobbsee: right
[12:36] <mhb> kwwii: I'm afraid people are used to having tabs on the top
[12:36] <kwwii> issues like this need to be taken out of the hardcore geeks hands and into the usability people's
[12:36] <mhb> kwwii: firefox, MS Windows configuration  dialogs, etc
[12:36] <Jucato> woulld be nice if seele or el were here to help on this matters
[12:36] <mhb> kwwii: but I don't want to paint Hobbsee's two sheds :o)
[12:36] <Jucato> kwwii: +1
[12:37] <kwwii> mhb: well, this is an issue of all text-based apps which have bottom-up text progress so it is somewhat different
[12:38] <mhb> that's konversation only, isn't it?
[12:39] <mhb> oh wait
[12:40] <Jucato> :)
[12:40] <yuriy> actually it's more along the lines of i'd like all the features of konvi in irssi
[12:41] <yuriy> or better yet, a konvi that can run in a screen
[12:42] <Hobbsee> mmm...
[12:44] <Jucato> or run irssi inside konvi lol :)
[12:45] <ryanakca> Jucato: lol
[12:46] <Jucato> :)
[12:53] <DaSkreech> Sho_: will you help out in pointing out what makes it a terrible theme?
[12:56] <fdoving> Sho_: i so agree on the redundant usability.
[12:57] <Jucato> Sho_: not wanting to add to the traffic in the other room, maybe you can run it by el again, taking into consideration the questions of the kubuntu developers.
[12:58] <yuriy> if only so much time could be spent on the placement of every widget in kubuntu
[12:58] <ryanakca> nixternal: RFS? (I see RFH, RFA and RFP on http://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp/ )
[12:58] <nixternal> Request For Sponsor
[12:59] <nixternal> there is a template when you log into mentors.debian.net
[12:59] <Sho_> yuriy: Well if Kubuntu would stick to upstream, in this case we wouldn't have had to ;)
[12:59] <fdoving> i can't understand that we discuss this. i'd go with whatever upstream has decided is best, who are we to think we know what's better for their app? - do we think they are completely fools and make their app look bad and behave badly on purpose?
[12:59] <Jucato> yuriy: I think the point is that if upstream has made good and sensible defaults, distro would have little reason to change them
[12:59] <Jucato> and if they do, distros have the burden of proof to reason out why they changed it
[01:00] <Sho_> fdoving: What I'd like to see is that before deviating from defaults, distros ask themselves if that change has a good enough reason behind it that it's worth proposing to upstream, and then do so before shipping it
[01:01] <Sho_> fdoving: Making various changes without ever talking to upstream about it just accumulates maintenance load on the distros' part anyway
[01:01] <fdoving> Sho_: exactly.
[01:01] <DaSkreech> fdoving: have you seen default KDE menu? :)
[01:01] <fdoving> DaSkreech: that's hardly comparable.
[01:02] <Sho_> DaSkreech: The default KDE menu isn't set in stone either
[01:02] <yuriy> ok time to go home
[01:02] <fdoving> yuriy: they would cry, so do i, about our mediapatches.
[01:03] <DaSkreech> :-)
[01:03] <Hobbsee> the default kde menu is still stacks better than the windows menus...but it still needs work
[01:03] <Sho_> fdoving: Those are odd, yeah - a friend recently installed Kubuntu, and while media:/ will happily show his hard drives (allbeit error out on permissions when clicking to mount them), the /media linked to from the Kicker applet doesn't ;-)
[01:04] <DaSkreech> Sho_: Heehee :)
[01:04] <yuriy> Jucato: i think that part of the deeper problem is that for changing a lot of defaults upstream, ""It'll be fixed in KDE4""
[01:04] <DaSkreech> Yeah I was in Gnome today and it handles the mounting of Drives a million times better
[01:04] <Sho_> On #kde, there's a running gag that the easiest way to get software into Kubuntu is to publish it as a patch on kde-apps.org
[01:04] <DaSkreech>  as I recall Knoppix Circa 2003 does loads better than kubuntu as well
[01:05] <yuriy> in terms of what?
[01:05] <DaSkreech> yuriy: Me?
[01:05] <yuriy> yeah
[01:05] <Jucato> the deeper problems is actually the communication between upstream and downstream. How do we communicate? How much do we need to communicate about these things?
[01:06] <Hobbsee> Sho_: *wonderful*
[01:06] <fdoving> Sho_: hehe :) - good one. :)
[01:06] <DaSkreech> yuriy:  mounting drives and making them useful
[01:06] <manchicken_> Well, I think upstream concerns should be presented as questions more than displeasure.
[01:06] <manchicken_> I'm still very much bothered and concerned that these issues were brought up in this manner.
[01:06] <Sho_> manchicken_: We were previously told we should show up at a meeting and bring up our issues
[01:06] <DaSkreech> manchicken_: as an agenda on the meeting?
[01:06] <yuriy> DaSkreech: yeah knoppix is quite amazing at making things work
[01:07] <Sho_> manchicken_: By Brandon - I also asked Riddell earlier today if it was appropriate, and he ok'd it
[01:07] <DaSkreech> yuriy: AND SO IS GNOME
[01:07] <DaSkreech> Why can't Kubuntu make things groovy?
[01:07] <manchicken_> Sho_: My concern isn't that it was brought up, it's that it is how it was brought up.
[01:07] <yuriy> in my recent experience GNOME hasn't exactly worked
[01:08] <Jucato> imho it has been brought up quite well.
[01:08] <Sho_> manchicken_: I find it strage that you find it so perplexing that as software developers we would have a stake in how it's presented to the users?
[01:08] <mhb> Sho_: I welcomed your presence
[01:08] <DaSkreech> yuriy: it has them in the Sidebar
[01:08] <DaSkreech>  you double click and it mounts on the desktop
[01:08] <DaSkreech> DOuble click again and it opens
[01:08] <DaSkreech> Beauty
[01:08] <Sho_> mhb: thanks :)
[01:08] <Jucato> manchicken_: this also isn't the first time Konversation has communicated with Kubuntu. but previously only through contacts like imbrandon and Hobbsee
[01:08] <yuriy> DaSkreech: i was talking about other things
[01:08] <fdoving> manchicken_: list of points in a .txt, what was wrong with that? - mplayer do this all the time. they come to package maintainers and tell them how to improve their packages.
[01:08] <mhb> Sho_: feel free to come here or at the meeting and "flame" some more :o)
[01:08] <manchicken_> I may be way off, but it was brought up in a way that seemed like some sort of control assertion.
[01:08] <Lure> Sho_: it is hard to control this in opensource - see Firefox TM story
[01:09] <DaSkreech> yuriy: Oh no. I'll refrain about talking about it for other stuff
[01:09] <mhb> Sho_: (just a joke, I think you have several good points)
[01:09] <DaSkreech> but If it works by gum goll so should we!
[01:09] <kwwii> I think that we are lucky that Sho_ wants to help us
[01:09] <Hobbsee> text file is better than irc log. but yes
[01:09] <manchicken_> konversation has zero entitlement to how kubuntu packages things, but I think that we do care to listen to outside and upstream opinions.
[01:09] <fdoving> kwwii: me too.
[01:09] <Sho_> manchicken_: We're aware that part of what the distributions do is customize the applications to fit their particular flavor. We're not trying to change that.
[01:09] <DaSkreech> manchicken_: I think that rant has gotten it's point across now :)
[01:10] <fdoving> nite.
[01:10] <DaSkreech> anyway I'm now a solid hour late
[01:10] <DaSkreech> night
[01:10] <Jucato> night DaSkreech!
[01:10] <Sho_> manchicken_: But I do think that upstream and distros should work together, and that it's fair for upstream to ask distributions if they're really attached to changes upstream doesn't like
[01:10] <DaSkreech> If you see me later I'll be in Vista
[01:10] <Lure> Sho_: but our current defaults are worse than yours ;-)
[01:10] <manchicken_> Sho_: Couldn't agree more.
[01:10] <DaSkreech>  please send Choclate and ice crem to make me feel better
[01:10] <manchicken_> Sho_: I just think that you could have brought it up better.
[01:10] <Sho_> manchicken_: And yes, I also think that distros should inform upstream about changes they make and why
[01:11] <Sho_> manchicken_: You know, the users come to us and complain, not (only) to you
[01:11] <Lure> manchicken_: there is history behind
[01:11] <Jucato> history goes way back :)
[01:11] <Lure> manchicken_: I heard before that upstream was not happy with our changes
[01:11] <kwwii> there might be a good chance that we change something, tell them about it and they say "hey what a great idea!"
[01:11] <Hobbsee> Sho_: have you been getting mroe complaints about kubuntu konvi, apart from the aforementioend ones?
[01:11] <manchicken_> Sho_: The communication should go, and that's something that's needed.
[01:11] <kwwii> if we don't tell them they might not ever know
[01:11] <Lure> manchicken_: but we did not discuss it at the time
[01:11] <Hobbsee> Sho_: i havent seen anything in my inbox, so i'm assuming not
[01:11] <manchicken_> Sho_: But these things should have been questions, not "we're mad at you for this this and that."
[01:11] <Sho_> Hobbsee: nope, all overed by earlier + today
[01:11] <Sho_> *covered
[01:11] <Hobbsee> Sho_: seeing as i believe you said you'd forward them to me, or the kubuntu-devel mailing list
[01:12] <Hobbsee> great, OK
[01:12] <Sho_> manchicken_: We're probably going to have to agree to disagree then.
[01:13] <Hobbsee> manchicken_: didnt you know - flame wars are great for communicating :P
[01:13] <Sho_> Lure: Well, Kubuntu actually forked key files of Konversation in the past, broke menu structures and keyboard shortcuts, forgot about those changes, and reported them to us as bugs - yes, there's some history ;)
[01:13] <Hobbsee> fortunately, they're gone
[01:13] <Sho_> Hobbsee: I don't believe I've flamed, though.
[01:14] <mhb> Hobbsee: I'll probably sleep by then, but I'll try to support you from within the dreams :o)3
[01:14] <Sho_> yes, Hobbsee kindly fixed all that
[01:14] <manchicken_> Sho_: Well next time try communicating a little better please.  This idea that upstream is somehow entitled to control downstream is simply misguided.
[01:14] <Lure> Sho_: yep, we are far from perfect ;-)
[01:14] <Hobbsee> i've been meaning to look at the k-d-s again, i havent had time since i got back
[01:14] <Sho_> manchicken_: I have never said that upstream is entitled to control downstream.
[01:14] <Sho_> manchicken_: In fact, I have said the opposite multiple times.
[01:14] <Hobbsee> once i get to the end of semester, and past exams and such, then it'll be all good.
[01:14] <Jucato> manchicken_: I don't think that the way it was brought up implied any control
[01:14] <Lure> Sho_: I did not consider your arguing as flaming
[01:14] <kwwii> lol, if we make upstream always swim downstream how will the upstream from us? :p
[01:14] <Jucato> Sho_:  just brought up issues
[01:14] <manchicken_> [18:08]  <Sho_> manchicken_: I find it strage that you find it so perplexing that as software developers we would have a stake in how it's presented to the users?
[01:15] <Hobbsee> Sho_: not today.  maybe i'm mixing you with ana/pusling, though.  i havent looked at the old logs
[01:15] <kwwii> erm, bad english...time for bed
[01:15] <manchicken_> That looks like assertion of some entitlement to control to me.
[01:15] <Hobbsee> kwwii: heh
[01:15] <mhb> Sho_: your comments were interesting for me
[01:15] <Jucato> manchicken_: that was in reaction to you question why downstream changes concern upstream
[01:15] <Hobbsee> kwwii: you'll start up in german again?
[01:15] <Hobbsee> kwwii: like at the airport?
[01:15] <Sho_> manchicken_: I'm not a native English speaker, so I'm sorry if that might have an aggressive meaning. According to my English education, "having a stake" roughly means "having a strong interest in", "being emotionally involved in", etc.
[01:15] <kwwii> aber ohne scheiss ;-)
[01:15] <manchicken_> Jucato: No, that was just a second ago to something different.
[01:15] <Hobbsee> kwwii: no idea if anyone else got confused at your speech that day :P
[01:16] <manchicken_> Sho_: Gotcha.  We'll call that one lost in translation then :)
[01:16] <Jucato> manchicken_: Sho_ just repeated what he said earlier in #ubuntu-meeting
[01:16] <kwwii> funky hearing a native english speaker getting tired and reverting back to german, eh?
[01:16] <Hobbsee> *  HobbseeGermanParser dies
[01:16] <Jucato> he just copy-pasted it in here
[01:16] <manchicken_> Jucato: No, what he said before was longer I though....
[01:16] <Hobbsee> kwwii: hehe, seems so
[01:17] <Riddell> Hobbsee: I don't seem to be able to make new administrators for kubuntu-members
[01:17] <Sho_> manchicken_: And yes, I'm surprised that you would be surprised that we care about what Kubuntu does to our software ;-)
[01:17] <Hobbsee> Riddell: why not?
[01:17] <Sho_> And we would prefer to work with distros rather than keep a list on our website which we can support and which we can't
[01:17] <manchicken_> Sho_: Sorry if I seem a little short on that one, but when I was a SuSE contributor, gosh there were a lot of upstream folks trying to dictate direction.    You're more than entitled to care :)
[01:17] <Hobbsee> why do i appear to have 7 hours of class straight here?
[01:18] <manchicken_> Sho_: Languages are fun, eh?
[01:18] <Hobbsee> make that 3, an hour break, then 7 hours straight
[01:18] <Jucato> upstream is also entitled to suggest :)
[01:18] <kwwii> Hobbsee: no pain, no gain
[01:18] <manchicken_> Okay, I'm going to once again go get disappointed by a local restaurant because their spiciest food is nowhere near spicy enough.
[01:18] <manchicken_> Enjoy folks.  Have fun.
[01:18] <Hobbsee> kwwii: yeah, let you tell me how my head is hurting right now...
[01:19] <Jucato> bye manchicken_
[01:19] <Sho_> manchicken_: In short, I don't expect you to just do what we ask you to, but I do expect distros to think before deviating from defaults, and to be open to discussion about changes with upstream.
[01:19] <manchicken_> Sho_: We need to talk about stuff.
[01:19] <Riddell> Hobbsee: I've no idea, I can for kubuntu-council but not for kubuntu-members, maybe because I didn't create the team
[01:19] <manchicken_> Sho_: And talking is good.
[01:19] <manchicken_> I wasn't saying we shouldn't talk :)
[01:19] <Riddell> Hobbsee: can you set admins for kubuntu-council?
[01:19] <Sho_> manchicken_: Well, thats what we've been doing today ;)
[01:19] <Sho_> night kwwii
[01:20] <kwwii> Hobbsee already added me to the council - thanks Hobbsee!
[01:20] <manchicken_> alright, it's disappointment time.  Later folks.
[01:20] <Hobbsee> kwwii: no problem
[01:20] <Hobbsee> Riddell: already done
[01:20] <kwwii> night Sho_, see you around I hope
[01:20] <Hobbsee> Riddell: perhaps you should talk to the CC, then.
[01:20] <Hobbsee> seeing as that needs fixing
[01:20] <Riddell> or a launchpad admin
[01:20] <Hobbsee> or i could poke someone in #launchpad, i guess
[01:20] <kwwii> see you manchicken|away, enjoy (or not) your meal
[01:24] <Hobbsee> Riddell: sorry for being late.  i'm not sure what happened
[01:25] <Jucato> Hobbsee: are you feeling ok? not sick are you? :(
[01:25] <Hobbsee> Jucato: define sick :P
[01:25] <crimsun> (sick of opto?)
[01:25] <Hobbsee> Jucato: i'm likely hypoglycaemic, and it's been getting worse since mid-UDS.
[01:25] <Jucato> hehehe
[01:25] <Jucato> :(
[01:25] <Hobbsee> mmm...sick of assignments, too
[01:26] <Hobbsee> but mostly the former
[01:26] <nosrednaekim> Lure: hey, are you here?
[01:26] <Lure> nosrednaekim: yep, but anout to get some sleep (1:30 am here)
[01:27] <nosrednaekim> Lure: ok... just wanted to tell you that making it into a wattmeter is a one and one-half line fix:-D
[01:27] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: that is a bad thing
[01:27] <crimsun> Hobbsee: are you diabetic?
[01:27] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: indeed
[01:27] <crimsun> (I'm Type II)
[01:27] <nosrednaekim> guidance-power-manager that is.
[01:27] <Lure> nosrednaekim: great - send me the patch and I can review and include it
[01:27] <nosrednaekim> Lure: ok.
[01:27] <Hobbsee> crimsun: dont think so.  it's fairly close to hypoglycaemia though
[01:28] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: indeed.
[01:28] <Riddell> Hobbsee: your phone was turned off, I can't wake you up from an answerphone :)
[01:28] <Hobbsee> Riddell: it was on.
[01:28] <Riddell> I just got an answerphone woman
[01:28] <Hobbsee> i've no missed calls on it
[01:28] <Hobbsee> was it me?
[01:29] <Riddell> no, robot
[01:29] <Hobbsee> then you called the wrong number
[01:29] <Jucato> O.o
[01:29] <Jucato> freaky
[01:29] <Hobbsee> Riddell: yes, that's me
[01:29] <Riddell> hmm, guess it was my mistake earlier then
[01:30] <Hobbsee> probably :P
[01:30] <Riddell> sorry about that
[01:30] <Hobbsee> no problem
[01:31] <Hobbsee> blerg.  head == dying
[01:31] <ajmitch> revive it
[01:32] <Hobbsee> cant.  it doesnt wish to revive
[01:33] <ajmitch> more drastic measures may be needed
[01:33] <Hobbsee> hammer?
[01:33] <crimsun> a snack with a bit of sugar content?
[01:33] <Hobbsee> crimsun: that requires gettign to the other end of the house.
[01:33] <nosrednaekim> crimsun: you've got no imagination
[01:33] <nosrednaekim> ;)
[01:34] <Hobbsee> which is problematic
[01:38] <nosrednaekim> how do you find the email addresses of developers?
[01:38] <Hobbsee> see various of you later tonight :)
[01:39] <Hobbsee> nosrednaekim: which ones?
[01:39] <nosrednaekim> I'd like to know Lure's
[01:39] <Hobbsee> check launchpad
[01:39] <nosrednaekim> but i'm not sure what his real name is..ok
[01:39] <Hobbsee> launchpad.net/~lure
[01:39] <nosrednaekim> ok
[01:39] <Hobbsee> most people come up in a people find
[01:40] <Hobbsee> or use launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members and find them off there
[01:41] <nosrednaekim> ok thanks.. I found him
[02:17] <mhb> making minutes is hard :o)
[02:18] <Jucato> that's why I never liked to be a secretary :P
[02:19] <mhb> Jucato: you're the support guy, that's even worse
[02:19] <Jucato> oh that's my title now? heheh :)
[02:20] <crimsun> meetings are much easier with a template.
[02:22] <mhb> crimsun: yeah, I'm using that minute template
[02:22] <mhb> crimsun: still, it's time-consuming to summarize all the agenda points
[02:22] <crimsun> very much so, but someone has to do it.
[02:24] <mhb> crimsun: true
[02:25] <Jucato> string mhb = "martyr";
[02:26] <mhb> heh :o)
[02:26] <mhb> Jucato: thanks
[02:38] <ryanakca> anybody familiar with `reportbug`? I file a ITP, as per http://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp/, but then, in the end, it goes 'Bug report written as /var/tmp/wnpp.bug
[02:39] <ryanakca> ', and nothing shows up in http://www.debian.org/Bugs/
[02:40] <crimsun> that means you need to attach /var/tmp/wnpp.bug in an email.
[02:40] <crimsun> we don't use reportbug
[02:41] <crimsun> use the email method of Debian BTS, and either include the contents of that file, or attach that file
[02:41] <crimsun> if you already knew, then I'm not sure why you asked
[02:41] <ryanakca> nixternal suggested that I get my packages in debian, and then just sync it into ubuntu
[02:42] <ryanakca> crimsun: no, I know that Ubuntu doesn't use bugreport... not how to take care of the wnpp.bug, but thanks
[03:23] <ajmitch> ryanakca: your ITP did arrive on the list now
[03:24] <ajmitch> however it doesn't look like it got into the bts properly :)
[03:24] <ryanakca> ajmitch: I fixed it.
[03:25] <ajmitch> good
[03:25] <ryanakca> night
[03:25] <ajmitch> :)
[03:30] <mhb> okay, who's awake?
[03:30] <dregorth> :P
[03:32] <mhb> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Meetings/Minutes/2007-05-31 needs proofreaders
[03:32] <mhb> it also needs people that can write english, I'm not one of them :o)
[03:33] <mhb> thanks to everyone that reads my minutes and survives it
[03:37] <dregorth> interesting link mhb
[03:38] <dregorth> i'll see about proofreading it
[03:38] <dregorth> :)
[03:39] <dregorth> which btw, i was actually searching about 10 mins ago for a log of the meeting since i had to leave in the middle of it
[03:39] <dregorth> hehe
[03:45] <dregorth> mhb: under the "present" part where it lists the "others present", what exactly do you mean as "others"?
[03:54] <yuriy> yay mass closing bugs
[03:55] <dregorth> mhb: well, it looks very thorough and fine to me
[03:56] <dregorth> mhb: why do you need people that can write english?
[04:49] <nixternal_> who keeps beating up my connection?
[04:49] <jjesse> i am
[04:49] <crimsun> I told you to stop using Vista as your host OS, but would you listen? Nooo.
[04:49] <jjesse> nixternal: i liked that kde4-docs document you sent
[04:50] <nixternal> hello
[04:50] <nixternal> haha crimsun
[04:50] <jjesse> hey i have no problems w/ my vista install :)
[04:50] <nixternal> jjesse: I am going to take the doc stuff that I had on the agenda and take it to the list..that way there you are included as well
[04:50] <nixternal> it isn't much really
[04:51] <jjesse> aweosme
[04:51] <jjesse> detroit basketball!!!!!
[04:53] <jjesse> wow what is happening to the cleveland cavs in this quarter?
[04:54] <nixternal> eww bball
[04:54] <jjesse> hey i just watch playoffs if detroit is in it :)
[04:54] <nixternal> man, I drove by and watched a baseball game tonight by the uni...I miss playing baseball so much
[04:54] <jjesse> yeah?  i play church softball when I'm not traveling
[04:55] <nixternal> I can play softball, as long as it isn't 16"
[04:55] <nixternal> I like to keep it as close to baseball as possible
[04:56] <jjesse> i don't mind softball, its a great time with the guys
[04:56] <jjesse> one of the things i really miss when i travel
[04:57] <jjesse> i saw that on abc, is it over?
[04:57] <claydoh> yeah
[04:58] <claydoh> one of the words I got, as it was sort of a Star Trek reference :)
[04:59] <claydoh> a type of wheat hybrid that the tribbles ate in up
[04:59] <claydoh> triticale
[04:59] <jjesse> i suck at spelling
[05:00] <claydoh> my wife now resents marrying me as I knew not only the word, its meaning, spelling, and the name of the ST TOS episode it is from
[05:00] <nixternal> hahahahahaha
[05:00] <jjesse> that's funny
[05:01] <nixternal> that's funny...i don't care who ya are
[05:01] <claydoh> pure dumb luck really
[05:01] <jjesse> my wife hates it everytime stargate or dr. who or anything like that shows up in the dvr
[05:01] <claydoh> my wife won't let me watch Dr who id she is around
[05:01] <jjesse> mine either
[05:01] <claydoh> Red Dwarf is ok (she likes that one )
[05:02] <jjesse> i think mine cringes everytime sci fi is on?
[05:02] <jjesse> doh didn't need question mark
[05:02] <claydoh> luckily she is not too much into theso-called feminine-type shows
[05:02] <jjesse> my wife is, she loves grey's anatomy
[05:03] <jjesse> i got the first two seasons for her so she could watch them while i was on the road traveling
[05:03] <claydoh> not too bad a show, really
[05:03] <jjesse> i think i've watched two episodes?
[05:05] <claydoh> she prefers CSI and NCIS more
[05:09] <yuriy> heh jjesse i see you're at the same thing
[05:43] <Jucato> Hobbsee!!!
[05:45] <Hobbsee> :)
[05:46] <Jucato> how are you now? I just woke up after only 2 hours of sleep lol
[05:46] <nixternal> ouch
[05:46] <nixternal> I don't think I could wake up 2 hours after I went to sleep
[05:46] <Jucato> :)
[05:47] <nixternal> 5 and 6 maybe, but anything less and I will be ewww
[05:47] <Jucato> well I was only able to get 45 mins of sleep before the meeting, and 2 hours after :)
[05:47] <Jucato> yay for timezones! hahahah
[05:47] <nixternal> holy cow
[05:47] <Jucato> :)
[05:47] <nixternal> no doubt..I remember UDS Paris, I was trying to pull the same routing
[05:48] <nixternal> so I could catch all of the online things they were "attempting"
[05:48] <Jucato> luckily this will only happen twice a month at most hehehe :)
[05:48] <Hobbsee> mm...sleep
[05:48] <Jucato> Hobbsee: sounds good right?
[05:48] <Hobbsee> i went back to sleep, i really wasnt feeling great
[05:48] <Hobbsee> yeah
[05:48] <Hobbsee> i was hoping to improve my sleep cycle - not make it worse1
[05:49] <Hobbsee> i just stay up later to catch the europeans, and somehow it's alwasy 4am
[05:49] <Jucato> :/
[05:49] <nixternal> Hobbsee: what times UTC wise are good for you?
[05:49] <Hobbsee> nixternal: for a meeting?
[05:50] <nixternal> yes
[05:50] <Hobbsee> 1300 UTC and later, iirc
[05:50] <Hobbsee> it's lunchtime, give or take, for the europeans
[05:50] <Hobbsee> so it's kinda sucky
[05:50] <nixternal> which is 0800 here in the summer, which is cool for me
[05:50] <nixternal> 0900 in the winter which is even better :)
[05:51] <nixternal> only bad time for me is Mon-Wed after 2200 UTC and before 04:00 UTC
[05:51] <nixternal> err
[05:51] <nixternal> ya, that is right
[05:51] <nixternal> haha
[05:51] <Hobbsee> Jucato: indeed.  it'd be better if the world was flat.
[05:51] <Hobbsee> nixternal: my timetable changes next semester
[05:52] <nixternal> mine will be a mess come the fall semester..I need to look at changing it
[05:52] <nixternal> I need to replace a C# class with something usefull
[05:52] <nixternal> this ASP.NET class is the biggest waste of time ever
[05:52] <Jucato> C++ :)
[05:52] <nixternal> but there aren't any other good classes, so I will do the 8 weeks and that is it
[05:52] <Jucato> I wonder when they'll be offering Qt classes anywhere...
[05:52] <nixternal> I just finished C++ 1 and 2, now I have to do 3 in the fall
[05:53] <Jucato> good for you! :)
[05:53] <nixternal> now I am taking java, which isn't to bad...at least it is coding
[05:53] <Hobbsee> heh, nice
[05:53] <nixternal> silly ASP.NET is drag and drop pointy clicky garbage
[05:53] <Hobbsee> mine isnt coidng at all
[05:53] <Jucato> I finally was able to finish 8 chapters in my book, but I will probably have to go back over Recursion and Pointers...
[05:54] <nixternal> pointers can be a bit tricky, but once you understand them, you are golden
[05:54] <nixternal> I have been doing htem for a year and I still get confused
[05:55] <Jucato> weirdly enough, I seem to be able to grasp pointers more easily than recursion...
[05:55] <Jucato> I guess I'll really know later when I do the chapter's exercises on pointers... but the exercises on recursion had me absolutely stumped :/
[05:55] <Jucato> towers of hanoi.... :(
[05:56] <Jucato> Hobbsee: although I'd certainly prefer the madness of pointers and recursion over getting burned by a soldering iron over and over again :)
[05:56] <Hobbsee> hehehehe
[05:56] <Hobbsee> mmm...pointers
[05:57] <Jucato> long pointer stick of doom :)
[05:57] <Hobbsee> hehe
[05:57] <nixternal> ahaha
[05:59] <nixternal> heh, I see the Konversation smackdown happened again today...did it get all worked out? I was caught in between server e.tardation
[05:59] <Jucato> e.tardation.... nice new word :)
[05:59] <Hobbsee> sort of
[06:00] <Jucato> resolution: talk to the usability people about the placement of tabs. ask kwwii if he could make a better nicklist theme.
[06:00] <Jucato> those are the only two I caught
[06:00] <Hobbsee> and change hte other 2 bits raised
[06:00] <Hobbsee> to be fair, i did act on them - i removed the crap, attempted to remove a bit more, but tonio said no, etc.
[06:00] <Jucato> oh, remove the systray icon by default, and use configuration files instead of hardcoding changes
[06:00] <Hobbsee> had some vaguely sane points, too, so..
[06:01] <Jucato> ah... too bad you were in no condition to raise Tonio's points earlier...
[06:01] <Jucato> I mean, physical condition
[06:01] <Hobbsee> meh - it wasnt too bad - as long as i iddnt move :P
[06:02] <Jucato> hm... don't breathe :)
[06:02] <Hobbsee> and as long as i tried not to think about how badly i felt like throwing up :P
[06:02] <Jucato> :/
[06:02] <Jucato> well I'm off to lunch for a bit. catch you later :)
[06:02] <Hobbsee> have fun!
[06:56] <giangy> yawhn
[06:56] <giangy> 'morning guys ;-)
[07:02] <nixternal> mornin' giangy
[07:04] <Jucato> ugh! I just watched the most disturbing episode of Bones :(
[07:05] <Jucato> Hobbsee: how do I get to the Category Kubuntu pages?
[07:06] <nixternal> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CategoryKubuntu ?
[07:06] <nixternal> is there a Kubuntu category?
[07:06] <Jucato> according to Hobbsee
[07:06] <Hobbsee> i thought so
[07:07] <Jucato> oh ok.. so there isn't? hm.. anyway I'll just try to start looking for pages tomorrow
[07:09] <nixternal> there might be..just need to find the name
[07:09] <nixternal> there is like a Category list or something on the wiki I think
[07:10] <Hobbsee> maybe it was taht link, or something
[07:10] <Hobbsee> searching for all pages called kubuntu
[07:11] <Jucato> yep. figured I'd have to do that. no worries. tomorrow then :)
[07:11] <Jucato> note to self: watching bones while eating... not a good idea
[07:11] <nixternal> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CategoryCategory
[07:11] <nixternal> there is the list of categories
[07:12] <Jucato> heh what a very intuitive name :)
[07:13] <Jucato> hm... maybe time we added a CategoryKubuntu?
[07:13] <nixternal> works for me
[07:54] <n8k99> do i need a copy of XP to be able to use XP in vmware?
[07:55] <Hobbsee> ask in #vmware or something
[07:55] <n8k99> right thanks
[07:55] <Hobbsee> also, specify *which* vmware
[07:55] <Hobbsee> ie, workstation, server, etc
[07:56] <n8k99> oh.
[07:56] <Jucato> player
[07:56] <Jucato> (just adding to the list)
[07:56] <n8k99> yes thats the one
[07:57] <Jucato> n8k99: yes I believe you need a copy of XP, because I think they couldn't make a legal vmware appliance (what they call the images) for XP
[07:57] <n8k99> ah of course
[07:57] <Jucato> but then again, I'm not sure if the XP EULA actually allows you to install in a vmware :)
[07:58] <n8k99> grr... my school
[07:58] <Jucato> grr the world
[07:59] <n8k99> just plain grr
[07:59] <Hobbsee> i dobut it does, but does anyone read it?
[07:59] <Hobbsee> what do you need XP for?
[08:00] <Jucato> better question is, does anyone really follow it? :D
[08:01] <Hobbsee> true that
[08:02] <Jucato> sheesh... law abiding citizens :P
[08:02] <Hobbsee> hey now, i said i followed the XP one.  i never said that all the software i have installed on XP is legit.
[08:02] <Jucato> hehehe  ok. got the picture :)
[08:02] <Hobbsee> and the only reason i follow the XP one is because i havent had a reason to violate it.  yet.
[08:03] <Jucato> hahah :)
[08:05] <Hobbsee> i do like the look of this though...
[08:05] <Hobbsee> Do I need to dual boot or repartition the disk?
[08:05] <Hobbsee>     No. VMware Workstation uses your computer's file system and creates files that map to a virtual machine's disk drives, so there is no need to create a partition for each operating system. If you already have another operating system with dual boot installed on your computer, you can use VMware Workstation to run the other operating system in a virtual machine on your host operating system. Instead of dual booting, you can run both
[08:05] <Hobbsee> operating systems simultaneously and seamlessly switch from one operating system to another with a click of your mouse.
[08:07] <Jucato> I believe _StefanS_ uses VM's for development, rather than actually installing or chrooting
[08:08] <Jucato> roflmao! "Obviously there exist design differences between the Linux kernel and the FreeBSD kernel but there are also similarities: ... Versions: each official kernel uses a numbered version." what a very striking and critical similarity :)
[08:08] <Jucato> (sorry, reading feeds)
[08:09] <Hobbsee> haha
[08:09] <Hobbsee> n8k99: ouchy.
[08:09] <n8k99> yup-
[08:10] <Jucato> I wonder what the software scene will be like when I actually enroll in a CS course...
[08:10] <n8k99> tryin g not to used cracked warez
[08:10] <Jucato> n8k99: the temptation is great, ain't it? :)
[08:11] <Hobbsee> n8k99: depends what the softwrae is, as to whether it's worth it :P
[08:11] <n8k99> look at that- there is a tutorial in the ubuntu docs!!
[08:12] <Jucato> yes there is :)
[08:12] <Hobbsee> ahh.  ewww.
[08:12] <Hobbsee> cant run it in wine?
[08:12] <n8k99> i guess it could
[08:13] <n8k99> was hoping to use KPlato but it does not export to Project files
[08:13] <Jucato> how about (cough) GNOME Planner?
[08:13] <Jucato> or el-planner for that matter
[08:14] <n8k99> el-planner is nice software - more of a pim than a project manager's tool
[08:15] <Jucato> ah... thought it was that kind of project management software...
[08:16] <Tm_T> hopefully will be done before sunday
[08:16] <Hobbsee> via what now??!?!!
[08:17] <Tm_T> hm?
[08:17] <Hobbsee> what kind of download speed are you getting for that?
[08:17] <n8k99> it's a module for emacs- works nicely with the emacs-wiki module
[08:17] <Tm_T> 5 kb/s when everything is perfect
[08:17] <Jucato> g... p... r... s... :/
[08:17] <Tm_T> that's "only" net connection I have at home atm
[08:18] <Jucato> whenever I hear about GRPS, I always associate them with cellphones :)
[08:18] <Tm_T> that's the thing
[08:18] <Tm_T> using my cellphone as modem
[08:18] <Jucato> O.o
[08:18] <Tm_T> yup, it's basically modem with high latency
[08:19] <Tm_T> but hey, it works "everywhere" ;)
[08:19] <Hobbsee> Tm_T: ouch
[08:19] <Jucato> very ouch....
[08:19] <Tm_T> very usable when not in hurry =)
[08:19] <Tm_T> but pain if using ssh
[08:19] <Jucato> hm... isn't 3G supposed to be faster than GPRS? I haven't really caught up with the technology yet :)
[08:20] <Jucato> oh speaking of cellphones... anybody seen the Flash video of someone hacking a P990i to install Ubuntu on it?
[08:20] <Tm_T> yes, 3G is much faster, BUT closest spot where I get it working is ~10 km away
[08:21] <Jucato> is $HOME10 km away? :)
[08:21] <Tm_T> this glorious tech land called Finland, 3G working in centers of some towns, some ;)
[08:21] <Tm_T> Jucato: ;)
[08:22] <Jucato> http://www.techeblog.com/index.php/tech-gadget/video-ubuntu-linux-running-on-sony-ericsson-p990i
[08:22] <Tm_T> so, I left my cellphone next to my pc when I moved my as to work, where I am now
[08:23] <Tm_T> bah, hate these keyboards
[08:24] <nixternal> Jucato: that has to be the worst soldering I have ever seen
[08:24] <Jucato> I just can't wait to get this laptop's wireless fixed!
[08:24] <Jucato> nixternal: hehehe.
[08:24] <Jucato> but hey, it works! :)
[08:24] <Jucato> should have put Kubuntu though :P
[08:25] <Jucato> but did you have to remind me of soldering? :/
[08:25] <Tm_T> I broke my soldering iron so no soldering here :(
[08:25] <Jucato> evil evil soldering irons! :/
[08:26] <nixternal> I have to watch that again
[08:27] <nixternal> seems kind of fishy to me
[08:27] <nixternal> looks like Ubuntu was running quite well with 64mb of ram
[08:28] <Jucato> that *is* fishy! :/
[08:28] <Tm_T> who's fish?
[08:28] <nixternal> I think it is a video he is playing on the phone
[08:28] <nixternal> ya
[08:28] <nixternal> he isn't touching the screen yet it is acting like he is at the beginning
[08:29] <Jucato> hmm....
[08:29] <Jucato> fraud!
[08:29] <nixternal> if it isn't..then I am impressed
[08:30] <nixternal> plus I didn't know there was a mobile version of Ubuntu already
[08:30] <Jucato> UME, I think?
[08:31] <nixternal> they just started the planning of it at UDS
[08:32] <Hobbsee> there's a mailing list about it
[08:32] <Hobbsee> there's no release of it yet, iirc
[08:33] <nixternal> ya, he got called out on youtube about it being a fake
[08:34] <Jucato> hehe thanks for double checking :)
[08:34] <Jucato> I feel like such an idiot :/
[08:34] <nixternal> heh, they called him out and asked if he was so into Linux, why did he use crappy windows movie maker and not kino
[08:34] <nixternal> hehe
[08:35] <Jucato> lol
[08:35] <nixternal> plus his little mod would have probably fried the phone in the first place...looks like he shorted 3 traces to a transistor
[08:36] <Jucato> poor P990i... I would have taken it with whatever OS it was using :/
[08:36] <viviersf> Riddell, ping
[08:36] <nixternal> Jucato: I am with you on that one
[08:36] <nixternal> I have a crappy cellphone..the free one
[08:36] <Jucato> I chose a very low end smartphone... only because I have no money for anything else. lol
[08:37] <nixternal> oh ya, you can see the pcb burn from to much heat
[08:37] <nixternal> hehe
[08:37] <Jucato> but I have a fetish for gadgets... kinda hard to satisfy if you'er on a tight budget
[08:37] <Jucato> :)
[08:38] <nixternal> oh, he shorted 2 traces to a surface mount resistor
[08:40] <Jucato> ugh this is so annoying! after a sudden heavy rainfall a few hours ago, it's extremely hot and humid now. it's so sticky! :/
[08:43] <nixternal> it has chilled here a little bit finally
[09:15] <Tm_T> I wonder how my downloads are doing at home...
[09:16] <Jucato> hopefully doing well...
[09:16] <Jucato> I don't want to have to keep crossing my fingers/toes for nothing :)
[09:17] <Jucato> Tm_T: re: MOTU plans. it kinda took a detour. I'm trying to focus now on original goal of learning programming. although I still do have plans to learn packaging, it's not a high-level priority right now :/
[09:19] <Tm_T> roger
[09:21] <Tonio_> hey
[09:21] <Jucato> hi Tonio_!
[09:22] <_marseillais> hi
[09:22] <Tonio_> hi guys :)
[09:23] <Tonio_> in there a minute available for yesterday's meeting ?
[09:23] <_marseillais> I would like to say thank you all! :)
[09:23] <Tonio_> who is a new member ?
[09:23] <Tonio_> who is member of the new council ?
[09:23] <Tonio_> _marseillais: I hope Riddell quoted me ?
[09:23] <Jucato> Tonio_: 3 actually
[09:23] <Jucato> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Meetings/Minutes/2007-05-31
[09:23] <_marseillais> Tonio_, he does
[09:23] <Tonio_> Jucato: am I still member of the council ?
[09:23] <Jucato> could we put the minutes in the /topic btw
[09:24] <Jucato> Tonio_: doesn't look like it
[09:24] <Tonio_> Jucato: okay ;))
[09:26] <Tonio_> Jucato: in fact I still am member
[09:26] <Tonio_> last year, I'll step dwn next yea
[09:26] <Tonio_> year
[09:26] <Tonio_> Jucato: the ebate was between allee and me, and allee insisted a lot for me to stay and him to stop ;)
[09:26] <Jucato> oh yeah. sorry was looking at the wrong list :)
[09:26] <Tonio_> Jucato: I worked a lot yesterday on kdesudo
[09:26] <Tonio_> Jucato: replacing kdesu
[09:27] <Tonio_> Jucato: fixes lots of problems with kdesu
[09:27] <Jucato> oooh
[09:27] <Tonio_> Jucato: remembers the password
[09:27] <Jucato> nice nice :)
[09:27] <Jucato> very nice :)
[09:27] <Tonio_> Jucato: deals correctly with complex sudoers files
[09:27] <Jucato> pushing it upstream too?
[09:27] <Tonio_> Jucato: well I am the new upstream :/
[09:27] <Jucato> hahah  great!
[09:27] <Tonio_> Jucato: the code was unmaintained for 4 years :)
[09:27] <Jucato> I mean KDE though :)
[09:28] <Tonio_> Jucato: the only thing is that it doesn't work with the X-Kde-SubstituteUID thing of desktop files
[09:28] <Jucato> anyway that's great news!
[09:28] <Tonio_> Jucato: fancy testing ?
[09:28] <Jucato> on feisty?
[09:29] <Tonio_> Jucato: yes
[09:29] <Jucato> what do I need to do? :)
[09:29] <Tonio_> Jucato: the package creates a divert rule to replace kdesu
[09:29] <Jucato> kool
[09:29] <Tonio_> http://tonio.homelinux.org/temp
[09:30] <Tonio_> Jucato: just use it command line at the moment
[09:31] <Tonio_> Jucato: or if you wanna test from the kmenu, change the exec of the desktop entries to "kdesu bla"
[09:31] <Tonio_> Jucato: I need to figure out how the UID replacement thing work in kde
[09:31] <Tonio_> doesn't seem to use kdesu directly
[09:33] <Tonio_> hum, konversation upstream is really annoying..............
[09:33] <Tonio_> what the F**** is the problem with implementing and configuring  certain way ?
[09:33] <Jucato> :/
[09:33] <Tonio_> that's the purpose of a distro
[09:33] <Tonio_> and free softwarte
[09:33] <Jucato> Tonio_: on the command line, I just need to use "kdesu", not kdesudo?
[09:34] <Tonio_> "that's my code, you can do what you want with it, but please, don't touch it !!"
[09:34] <Tonio_> Jucato: you can use both
[09:34] <Tm_T> Tonio_: err?
[09:34] <Tonio_> it's the third time konversation guys are complaining
[09:34] <Tm_T> Tonio_: errrrrr??!
[09:34] <Tm_T> what complaining and why
[09:34] <Tonio_> damn, what's the problem if we're touching the default config ?
[09:35] <Jucato> Tonio_: no problem with touching the default config
[09:35] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: it's a problem if we're breaking it
[09:35] <Tonio_> http://konversation.kde.org/kubuntu-issues.txt
[09:35] <Jucato> the problem is how it was done
[09:35] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: are we ?
[09:35] <Tonio_> hum........ it is done by a simple rc file
[09:35] <Jucato> Tonio_: particularly #4
[09:35] <Tonio_> nothing else
[09:35] <Jucato> er... it's hardcoded on  Kubuntu afaik
[09:36] <Tonio_> Jucato: 4 has been done that way so that people using gnome+konversation have the good server list
[09:36] <Tonio_> Jucato: no way to use the kds tweak on gnome........
[09:36] <Tonio_> that's the problem
[09:37] <Tonio_> talking about the theme, I just choosed a theme that was "human understandable"
[09:37] <Jucato> hm. I'll try to bring that to Sho_'s attention. I think he wasn't aware of that
[09:37] <Jucato> Tonio_: I agree. I don't like the default Konvi theme and have told him that
[09:37] <Tonio_> Jucato: maybe it isn't sho who was about to insult imbrandon last time
[09:37] <Tm_T> Tonio_: there's some points I think
[09:38] <Tonio_> Jucato: but I remember he was reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally bored with one of the konversation guys
[09:38] <Tonio_> honnestly, konversation works, we are not breaking anything
[09:38] <Jucato> wouldn't know. wasn't here yet :)
[09:38] <Tonio_> and anything thing that has been changed has been for I think a good reason
[09:38] <Tonio_> especially since I didn't do most of those changes
[09:38] <Tonio_> konvi is one of the rare apps I didn't tweak a lot on kubuntu
[09:39] <Tonio_> Jucato: but we can explain them why we did things that way
[09:39] <Tm_T> Tonio_: you should see my Kopete... ;--P
[09:39] <Tonio_> talking about the default theme, of course the real default one is better
[09:39] <Jucato> Tonio_: I think the k-d-s issue was never brought to Sho_'s attention
[09:39] <Tonio_> but it is ununderstandable
[09:39] <Jucato> +1
[09:39] <Tonio_> te current one makes sense
[09:39] <Tonio_> O for op
[09:39] <Tonio_> V for voice
[09:39] <Tonio_> etc......
[09:39] <Jucato> wb Hobbsee_
[09:39] <Tonio_> fonts are outdated ??????
[09:39] <Jucato> hm?
[09:39] <Tonio_> serif is just the standard over all the distros.......
[09:40] <Tonio_> that's the point on the list
[09:40] <Tm_T> ooh Hobbsee is multiplying
[09:40] <Tonio_> honnestly, most of the things, I can't agree with them....
[09:40] <Tm_T> soon we all can have our own Hobbsee <3
[09:40] <Jucato> what about fonts?
[09:40] <Tonio_> fuck my internet connection, I should have been there
[09:40] <Tonio_> Jucato: there is some lines about outdated fonts in the list
[09:41] <Jucato> I couldn't find the reference
[09:41] <Jucato> wait let me check
[09:41] <n8k99> and that the serif typography looks
[09:41] <n8k99>   outdated.
[09:41] <Jucato> Tonio_: could you please pin point where it is?
[09:42] <n8k99> end of third * point
[09:42] <Tonio_> Jucato: let me check
[09:42] <Tonio_> systray should be by default ??????
[09:42] <Tonio_> damn this is a standard for any communication software on any operating system
[09:43] <Jucato> Tonio_: not enabled by default is his suggestion
[09:43] <Tonio_> every irc or IM client on osx or windows uses systray, that makes sense
[09:43] <Tonio_> I say shold be enabled by default
[09:43] <Tonio_> for the same reason kopete does it
[09:43] <Jucato> wait... about the font.. he's referring to the font on the nicklist theme (in the boxes). not to real fonts
[09:43] <Tonio_> most people on irc are connected all day long, not just 10 minutes
[09:43] <n8k99> Jucato:  right
[09:44] <Tm_T> Tonio_: not me
[09:44] <Tonio_> Jucato: what is the problem with theme ?
[09:44] <Tonio_> Tm_T: "most" people
[09:44] <Tonio_> default are intended to fit most people needs
[09:44] <Tonio_> not mine or yours
[09:44] <Jucato> Tonio_: about the nicklist theme, he's concerned about the quality of that particular nicklist theme: "we believe it is graphically poorly done
[09:44] <Tonio_> I have put default settings that I obsiously remove for my usage
[09:44] <Tonio_> Jucato: it is
[09:45] <Tonio_> Jucato: but it is understandable
[09:45] <Jucato> I don't think people would miss Konvi's systray more than Kopete's.
[09:45] <Tonio_> Jucato: I hope we can find better in the future
[09:45] <Jucato> Tonio_: actually suggested if kwwii could make some
[09:45] <Tonio_> Jucato: sure
[09:45] <Tonio_> Jucato: well I think they will, but that's my opinion
[09:46] <Tonio_> especially since most people reduce the systray size to feet on one line
[09:46] <Tonio_> in that way you cannot have 10 apps launched at the same time
[09:46] <Tonio_> it is nice to have the systray by default
[09:46] <Tonio_> but well that can be rediscussed..... but I'd like to have a pool before
[09:47] <Tonio_> who is using the systray with konvi and is happy with it and who doesn't ?
[09:47] <Tonio_> I am happy with it
[09:47] <Tonio_> the point is that a newbie, for example
[09:47] <Tonio_> if he sees the systray, he will guess he can disable it
[09:47] <Tonio_> if there is no systray, in most cases, he will just miss the functionnality
[09:47] <Jucato> not many newbies actually know that
[09:48] <Jucato> that they can disable systray icons...
[09:48] <Tonio_> that's the reason ALL irc clients on osx and windows are using systray by default
[09:48] <Jucato> been a long time since I used mIRC, but I recall it didn't have a systray icon
[09:48] <Tonio_> Jucato: but it is easier to guess that you can disable a visible functionnality than guessing it just exists
[09:48] <Tonio_> Jucato: there is, believe me :)
[09:49] <Jucato> but I don't know... it doesn't seem to me that the systray for konvi actually serves a critical purpose, as compared to an Kopete's systray maybe
[09:49] <nixternal> Jucato: you know you use mIRC :)
[09:50] <Jucato> nixternal: last time I touched it was 2001 :P
[09:50] <Tonio_> Jucato: I don't see any difference :)
[09:50] <Tonio_> Jucato: how about kdesudo, does it work for you ?
[09:50] <nixternal> but iirc, mIRC did have an option for it in the systray...and that was about the last time I touched it as well
[09:50] <Jucato> heh I got caught up in the discussin :P
[09:50] <n8k99> hehe
[09:52] <Tm_T> Tonio_: you didn't get my joke :p
[09:54] <Jucato> Tonio_: works great!
[09:54] <Tonio_> Tm_T: err....... no in fact :)
[09:54] <Tonio_> Jucato: hehe :)
[09:54] <Tm_T> Tonio_: when you saw me part/quit last time?
[09:54] <Tonio_> Tm_T: possibly.... I don't know what you're talking about ;)
[09:55] <Jucato> Tonio_: then maybe while it's at an early stage, mhb and um... that other guy... could work with you on the text for the prompt
[09:55] <Tonio_> Jucato: just need to get it to work with the substituteUID thing and we can replace kdesu
[09:55] <Tm_T> Tonio_: haha
[09:55] <Tonio_> Jucato: which text prompt ? isn't it good ?
[09:56] <Jucato> I think the suggestion was to have more context in the prompts, but also showing what command is being run w/ kdesu(do)
[09:56] <Jucato> let me try to find the stuff done by mhb...
[09:56] <Tonio_> hum, in my opinion the command shouldn't appear
[09:56] <Tonio_> why ?
[09:57] <Tonio_> because people capable to understand the command use sudo in command line :)
[09:57] <nixternal> Tonio_: isn't this like the 3rd time this has happened? I remember imbrandon having issues last year with it
[09:57] <Tonio_> btw I think gksudo doesn't show the command
[09:57] <nixternal> in regards to konversation
[09:57] <Tonio_> nixternal: yeah..........
[09:57] <Tonio_> nixternal: thanks to the konqueror devs to be more comprehensive with my tweaks :)
[09:57] <nixternal> I thought so... manchicken|away witnessed it today and had the same response you did..i explained this isn't the first, nor probably the last time we will see it either
[09:58] <Tonio_> konvi is one of the applications that has the lowest tweaking level
[09:58] <Jucato> Tonio_: ask Riddell. he prefers to have the command appear
[09:58] <Tonio_> Jucato: hum.....
[09:58] <Jucato> Tonio_: http://img503.imageshack.us/my.php?image=thenewupdaterjo1.png from mhb
[09:58] <Jucato> Tonio_: Riddell's comment: <Riddell>	mhb: that looks fine, it's the hiding of the command that I was worried about
[09:59] <Tonio_> Jucato: okay for a "details" button
[09:59] <Jucato> hm... wouldn't a Details button be too much for a small dialog box like that?
[10:00] <Tonio_> Jucato: so what's the plan ?
[10:00] <Tonio_> an option to use text ?
[10:00] <Jucato> er.. you'd have to ask mhb how he patched kdesu for that
[10:00] <Tonio_> Jucato: fyi, kdesudo code is very simple, 6 kB of code :)
[10:00] <Tonio_> Jucato: easy to hack
[10:00] <Jucato> I'm still looking for the nick of the other guy who came up with a similar patch
[10:01] <nixternal> OK kubunteros...hold down the fort, and Jucato quit trying to beat ubotu as the #1 talker in #kubuntu ;p
[10:01] <nixternal> g'nite
[10:01] <Jucato> roflmao
[10:01] <Jucato> g'night nixternal!
[10:01] <nixternal> hahaha, that was classic
[10:01] <Jucato> actually intelikey is my top rival in #kubuntu :)
[10:01] <Tonio_> Jucato: I guess that's hardcoded
[10:01] <Jucato> Tonio_:  <RadiantFire> anyway, i got bored and decided I would play with kdebase, and I managed to do something that might be useful with the kdesu dialog, I took a screenshot, its at http://home.comcast.net/~dzeigler7/kdesu_modification.png
[10:02] <Tonio_> Jucato: the phrase used isn't in adept or kdesu code
[10:02] <Tonio_> hoooooooooo that one ?
[10:02] <Tonio_> pretty easy to do :)
[10:02] <Tonio_> I'll do it today ;)
[10:02] <Jucato> RadianFire's is more generic
[10:02] <Tonio_> Jucato: yeah, no icon
[10:02] <Jucato> so now you have 3 ideas :)
[10:02] <Tonio_> Jucato: that's fine, I know how to do it :)
[10:03] <Jucato> mhb's, Riddell's, RadiantFire's :)
[10:03] <Jucato> good luck :)
[10:03] <Jucato> whew! thank goodness for logs :)
[10:05] <_StefanS_> morning
[10:05] <Tm_T> errr, Jucato, you have use mIRC ?!
[10:05] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: show me the money !!
[10:06] <Jucato> Tm_T: yes. during the years I didn't know about FOSS :(
[10:06] <Tm_T> hrr, I have tried it one or two times...
[10:06] <Tm_T> its evil
[10:06] <Tm_T> EVIL!
[10:07] <_StefanS_> Jucato: did you put in a reason thing for kdesu ?
[10:07] <_StefanS_> Jucato: looks nice
[10:07] <Jucato> _StefanS_: no not me
[10:07] <_StefanS_> oh
[10:07] <Jucato> mhb and RadiantFire
[10:07] <Jucato> can't take credit for it :(
[10:08] <_StefanS_> Jucato: I think its a good idea nevertheless
[10:08] <Jucato> _StefanS_: btw, weren't you having problems implementing the fade out effect with kdesu?
[10:08] <_StefanS_> Jucato: well I think I found a way actually, coz it seems the solution is better done by patching the kpassworddialog directly in kdeblis
[10:08] <_StefanS_> erh kdelibs :)
[10:09] <Jucato> _StefanS_: well, Tonio_'s working on a kdesudo utility. might want to talk to him about it :)
[10:09] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: hey !!!!!!!!
[10:09] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: I may require your help for complicated things
[10:10] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: http://tonio.homelinux.org/temp
[10:10] <_StefanS_> please tell me
[10:10] <_StefanS_> looking.
[10:10] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: just test :)
[10:10] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: the good thing is that it is really using sudo, so passwords are remembered
[10:10] <_StefanS_> sweet
[10:10] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: something you did yourself?
[10:10] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: also kdesu fails to deal with specific tasks in sudoers, like permission for one user and one command
[10:11] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: works with this
[10:11] <_StefanS_> kdesu is very old stuff it seems...
[10:11] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: no that's an unmaintained code
[10:11] <Tonio_> I just fixed it to work correctly with a modern sudo
[10:11] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: and fixed a couple of bugs on it
[10:11] <Jucato> well at least we have a specialized kdesudo for sudo, and kdesu can be left for su :)
[10:11] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: this one works better, btw, no doubt on that
[10:12] <Tonio_> Jucato: my problem with kdesu is that it just doesn't work in most cases ;)
[10:12] <_StefanS_> right, I guess we can use it with system-settings as well
[10:12] <Tonio_> Jucato: you have to launch adept twice very often
[10:12] <Jucato> exactly!
[10:12] <Tonio_> Jucato: what if you want to delegate one command only in sudoers, that won't work
[10:12] <Tonio_> all of that works with kdesudo afaics
[10:13] <Tonio_> and well the code seems to work with our modern sudo so.......... :)
[10:13] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: I just have a problem with the X-Kde-SubstitudeUID functionnality of dekstop files
[10:13] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: works fine, and does indeed cache the password
[10:13] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: uhm, ok
[10:13] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: doesn't work with kdesudo, as it doesn't seem to call kdesu directly.......
[10:14] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: I have to fix this before proposing it for replacement :)
[10:14] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: right, but even now it seems very good :)
[10:14] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: actually you also can use kdesu, there is a divert on the package
[10:14] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: kudos for that
[10:14] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: fancy helping me to figure out how substitudeUID works ? ;)
[10:17] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: yes indeed, just had to put out an assignment to a contractor just now
[10:17] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: I'm at work ;)
[10:17] <Jucato> hahah
[10:17] <Jucato> work )
[10:17] <Jucato> :)
[10:17] <_StefanS_> ;D
[10:17] <_StefanS_> yea well... eh work.
[10:18] <_StefanS_> the good thing is that I can work on alot of other stuff while being paid fulltime on contractor salary .. (per hour) :)
[10:18] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: I suppose it would now be easy to apply the fading, wtype_popup thingy to that kdesudo also..
[10:19] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: I'll grab the source, and could you explain me in the meantime what the problem is about?
[10:19] <_StefanS_> oh my, my internet is getting upgraded to 20mbit today
[10:20] <Jucato> er.. KCC
[10:20] <Jucato> er.. flattered!
[10:20] <Jucato> bah stupid keyboard
[10:20] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: it would
[10:20] <_StefanS_> Jucato: yes, but it really requires alot of online time, and thats not something I can do
[10:20] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: you can work on that if you want
[10:20] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: there is no upstream
[10:20] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: let's fork it and make it a kubuntu development :)
[10:21] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: lets just fix that x-kde thingy first, I basically have the code to paste right in to it later on
[10:21] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: can we make a source tree somewhere using launchpad (I havent got much idea where to start)
[10:22] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: sure
[10:22] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: we should have it in bzr, I'll create a branch for this :)
[10:22] <_StefanS_> sweet, go do :)
[10:22] <_StefanS_> I will look at source in the meantime
[10:22] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: removing kdesu would close dozens of launchpad bugs :)
[10:22] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: yes!
[10:23] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: what's now needed is improvements on the UI
[10:23] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: it already works technically better
[10:23] <viviersf> has anyone seen kontact refuse to close before, especially when you try to shut down
[10:23] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: I've done lots of tests with several sudoers file, it is just perfect
[10:23] <Tonio_> viviersf: never myself
[10:23] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: create a mockup of how you want the gui, and I will implement it
[10:24] <viviersf> Tonio_, :(
[10:24] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: I'll change a few things today
[10:24] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: basically the text
[10:24] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: what would be nice is your fading effect on it
[10:24] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: ok, having the reason would be cool too, along with bold appname
[10:24] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: can you work on that ?
[10:25] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: sure, what about the x-kde*desktop thing?
[10:25] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: I'll do the same way mhb did
[10:25] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: ah ok, I wll put in the fade effect, and popup for the dialog
[10:25] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: that the standard way to say in a desktop file "use another user"
[10:25] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: edit kmenu and look at adept
[10:25] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: that uses kdesu but looks like undirectly, as kdesu command works with kdesudo
[10:26] <Tonio_> but that breaks the kmenu entries
[10:26] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: if you unclick "use another user" and add kdesu to the exec, that'll work again
[10:26] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: we need to check how is that tag handled in kdelibs
[10:26] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: and patch it or make the necessary changes in kdesudo so that it works
[10:27] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: uhm, you kinda lost me there
[10:27] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: where do you select "use another user" ?
[10:27] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: edit the kmenu and look at adept
[10:27] <Tonio_> there is an option checked
[10:27] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: 2secs
[10:27] <_StefanS_> in system menu?
[10:28] <_StefanS_> ah I see it
[10:28] <Tonio_> that makes an entry in the desktop file, called "X-Kde-SubstituteUID=true"
[10:28] <Tonio_> that uses kdesu
[10:28] <_StefanS_> so that triggers kdesu automatically?
[10:28] <Tonio_> but non-directly, since kdesu command still works with kdesudo, with a divert....
[10:28] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: yes, but for some reason it fails with kdesudo  installed, even if "kdesu adept_manager" still works
[10:29] <Tonio_> I don't know why, need to investigate :)
[10:29] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: do you want me to take that?
[10:29] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: sure ;)
[10:29] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: sound like a fun littte thingy
[10:29] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: thanks for helping :)
[10:29] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: like the LEAP :D
[10:29] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: I hope it is configurable in kde
[10:30] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: I wouldn't like to patch kdebase/kdelibs so that it depends on kdesudo........ would be dirty
[10:30] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: so what do you propose? a setting for using either kdesudo or kdesu ?
[10:30] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: hehe, I hope we'll be able to have it working out of the box on gutsy
[10:30] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: requires a NM update right ?
[10:30] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: it does yes.
[10:30] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: first, need to find out how it works
[10:31] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: then check if that configurable somewhere (kdeglobals or so)
[10:31] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: Helmut has already accepted the patch initially, so I guess its a matter of time, and then we need the latest nm 0.6.5 to appear in gutsy too
[10:31] <Tonio_> if it isn't, can we change kdesudo so that it works without touching kdebase/libs
[10:31] <Tonio_> if not possible let's patch kde ;)
[10:31] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: I'll check what the posibilities are
[10:31] <_StefanS_> patch it silly :D
[10:31] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: ho so th epatch is already in knm ? :)
[10:31] <Tonio_> cool, we just need to wait for a new tarball then
[10:32] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: almost
[10:32] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: he said it looked good
[10:32] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: hehe, fantastic :)
[10:32] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: so would you be okay maintaining kdesudo with me ?
[10:32] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: they have another two-phase eap that is going to make it in 0.2 also
[10:32] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: potentially good application ;)
[10:32] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: and thanks to the free licence, the code never dies ;)
[10:33] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: yes
[10:33] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: would be a nice little pet-project
[10:33] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: actually a rather important cornerstone in kubuntu
[10:33] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: btw, how do you mimic the apt-get source thingy when I have just grabbed the code from your webpage?
[10:34] <Riddell> meduxa: are you going to the tenerrief "Free Software International Conference"
[10:34] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: patching and the like
[10:34] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: dpkg-source -x *.dsc
[10:35] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: that'll uppack the code
[10:35] <Tonio_> Riddell: hi ;)
[10:35] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: thanks
[10:35] <Tonio_> Riddell: I've gotten kdesudo to work, and that's much better than bloated kdesu
[10:35] <Hobbsee> less bugs in it too?
[10:35] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: thanks for helping
[10:36] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: remember passwords, deals with specific sudoers files, which kdesu doesn't
[10:36] <meduxa> riddell don't know what that is
[10:36] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: neat!
[10:36] <Jucato> moin Riddell
[10:36] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: for the french parliament, we use a specific sudoers file, and that just doesn't work with kdesu
[10:36] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: thats no problem, its really interesting stuff
[10:36] <Jucato> Hobbsee: you're up in an hour! #ubuntu-meeting right?
[10:36] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: we had to use gksu
[10:36] <hunger> Tonio_: In kde4 kdelibs/kio/kio/krun just seems to prepends "kdesu -u username" on substitudeUid().
[10:36] <Hobbsee> Jucato: yeah
[10:36] <Hobbsee> i think so
[10:36] <Tonio_> hunger: same in kde3
[10:37] <Tonio_> hunger: the problem is that it doesn't use sudo in fact
[10:37] <Tonio_> it uses su, but does the authentication with sudo
[10:37] <Tonio_> hunger: that's why for example if you want to give a user permissions with sudo on ONE command only, that won't work with kdesu
[10:38] <Riddell> Tonio_: groovy
[10:38] <Tonio_> no problem with kdesudo, as it uses directly sudo
[10:38] <Tonio_> Riddell: hehe ;)
[10:38] <Tonio_> Riddell: _StefanS_ and I are going to improve the code and integration to kde, as there is still a problem with the X-Kde-SubstitudeUID
[10:38] <Riddell> meduxa: http://jornadas.ssl.ull.es/2007/doku.php
[10:39] <hunger> Tonio_: You tried setting sudo as superusercommand in /etc/kde3/kdesurc I guess...
[10:39] <Tonio_> Riddell: replaces correctly kdesu btw, just that the substitude thing doesn't seem to use kdesu directly.....
[10:39] <Tonio_> hunger: didn't help too......
[10:39] <hunger> Tonio_: Thought so:-(
[10:39] <Tonio_> hunger: technically, the way kdesu works with sudo is really hackish.... it is designed for su, not sudo
[10:39] <meduxa> dammed, you get the info before I do. It is the conference of tenerife's college
[10:39] <hunger> Tonio_: I guess so.
[10:39] <Tonio_> hunger: that's why  dedicated application for this makes sense
[10:39] <meduxa> yes I'll be there, it is 30 min away from home
[10:40] <Tonio_> hunger: the only thing is that susbstitute thing in kdelibs..... I don't understand how it works
[10:40] <Tonio_> hunger: with kdesudo installed, kdesu adept_manager, for example works
[10:40] <hunger> Tonio_: But you need to either keep the kdesu name for the substituteUid stuff to work (and the -u option) or patch kdelibs.
[10:40] <Tonio_> but with the substitute thing, no way......
[10:41] <Tonio_> hunger: that's what I do
[10:41] <Riddell> meduxa: they have invited me, I'm not sure if I should go or not
[10:41] <Tonio_> hunger: but while kdesu adept_manager works, it fails with the substitute
[10:41] <Tonio_> hunger: that's the tricky thing ;)
[10:41] <meduxa> they pay you for everything, right?
[10:41] <hunger> Tonio_: I should shut up... You know what you are doing and I don't know what I am talking about anyway;-)
[10:41] <Tonio_> hunger: kdesu as lots of options, maybe the process uses one of the options kdesudo doesn't recognize or so
[10:42] <Tonio_> hunger: we'll finish it, but I have no doubt now that gutsy will be released with kdesudo in the first place :)
[10:42] <Tonio_> hunger: that'll close 30 bugs on launchpad at least ;)
[10:42] <meduxa> riddell they pay you for everything , right?
[10:43] <Riddell> meduxa: seems so
[10:43] <_StefanS_> Tonio_:  did you come to "if (!kapp->authorize("user/"+user))" in kdesktopfile.cpp also ?
[10:43] <_StefanS_> Tonio_:  seems like that authorize thing handles alot of different stuff
[10:43] <meduxa> you can come and see what tenerife's college has done with kubuntu and also visit a school with meduxa and the project we have here
[10:44] <meduxa> but do not expect more than 20 - 30 people in your conference
[10:44] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: I didn't start looking at that
[10:44] <meduxa> mostly college students
[10:44] <meduxa> but there are some good technicians here
[10:44] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: you already are more advanced thatn I am on that point :)
[10:44] <_StefanS_> hehe ok
[10:44] <meduxa> and you'll be able to know all the mEDUXa's team
[10:44] <hunger> Tonio_: I'd guess a "qDebug() << "Command line is" << result;" before line 459 in kdelibs/kio/kio/krun.cpp should clarify what substitute UID does...
[10:45] <meduxa> and Bardinux's team
[10:45] <Tonio_> hunger: hum interesting :)
[10:45] <meduxa> and canary islands are nice to visit
[10:45] <Tonio_> hunger: but in fact the problem is that there is no way to launch a desktop file command line
[10:45] <Riddell> meduxa: do you know if it will be mostly in English or Spanish?
[10:45] <Tonio_> hunger: how do I look at the debug output ? :)
[10:46] <Tonio_> hunger: as "kdesu command" works, I don't see an easy way to debug this
[10:46] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: eew, seems like kdesu is even hardcoded in kdeprint
[10:46] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: hum that should be a problem as I link kdesu to kdesudo
[10:47] <meduxa> mostly in spanish although here in the canary islands many people knows english and they usually intite foreign people to the talks
[10:47] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: and the -u <user option is the same synthax>
[10:47] <meduxa> invite
[10:47] <meduxa> you won't have problems with the language
[10:47] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: lemme test
[10:47] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: yes
[10:48] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: hardcoding kdesu in kdeapps wouldnt cause any trouble
[10:48] <meduxa> it looks like seigo is comming
[10:48] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: but that mecanism is desktop files is different
[10:48] <meduxa> gonzalo aller is the guy that came with me to UES
[10:48] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: I will just ignore the kdesu hardcode for now, and check on the desktopfiles
[10:48] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: yeah we can test it later
[10:49] <hunger> Tonio_: Where are the desktop files that form the menu?
[10:49] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: should be a problem in my opinion
[10:49] <meduxa> alberto barrionuevo is the spanish guy that knows more about licences and open formats
[10:49] <Tonio_> hunger: adept in kmenu for example
[10:49] <hunger> Tonio_: Where are the actual desktop files stored?
[10:49] <Tonio_> hunger: uncheck the "substitute user" thing nd change the command to kdesu adept_manager -> works
[10:49] <meduxa> looks like it going to be even more interesting than last year
[10:50] <Tonio_> use the command "adept_manager" anc check the "substitute user" thing -> fails
[10:50] <Tonio_> with the standard kdesu, both are working exactly the same way
[10:50] <Tonio_> hunger: we need to track that mecanism to get it to work with the new kdesudo
[10:50] <meduxa> riddell last year I was the one in charge of getting people to take dinner and visit some places here in tenerife
[10:50] <meduxa> jeje
[10:51] <Tonio_> the package already creates a link kdesu to kdesudo, and command line options are the same, that's why I don't understand wh it fails...
[10:51] <hunger> Hmmm... Wasen't that Alt-F2 thingy called krun once?
[10:52] <Jucato> hunger: it wasn't a separate app but part of kdesktop afaik
[10:52] <Jucato> but I only learned lately that kwin was formerly kwm... so I'm not that reliable :)
[10:53] <Tonio_> Jucato: I suspect that desktop thing will give us hard time.......
[10:53] <Jucato> plasma? it's going to be a big change, yes
[10:53] <hunger> Tonio_: Anyway: With kdebugdialog --fullmode you can redirect any output related to kio (KRun) into a file.
[10:54] <Tonio_> hunger: interesting :)
[10:54] <hunger> Tonio_: Debug area for krun is 7010...
[10:55] <hunger> That should log any debug messages you add... Dunno wether qDebug works or you need the kde version of that though.
[10:55] <meduxa> riddell you HAVE to come
[10:55] <Jucato> um btw Tonio_, would it probably be better to use alternatives for kdesu/kdesudo? unless we're planning to completely remove kdesu
[10:56] <Jucato> er I meant /etc/alternatives
[10:56] <Tonio_> Jucato: hard to change when kdesu is hardcoded in some parts of kde....
[10:57] <Jucato> speaking of /etc/alternatives... this is more of a MOTU question. is it possible to have postinst set the correct java version when installing Sun's Java instead of manually running update-alternatives?
[11:00] <Tonio_> stupid question, but how to get the Name or GenericName of an application within the command it uses ?
[11:01] <Tm_T> ok, this is interesting, if I add panel, so I have two kicker panels, so, I like to configure them, but, err, there's no dropdownlist to select what panel to configure, so I can only configure the original one
[11:01] <Riddell> meduxa: well, I need to talk to my girlfriend first
[11:01] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: I think I got something (maybe)... look in kdelibs/kio/kio/krun.cpp at line 445
[11:02] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: It tries to determine what is needed for running a particular desktopfile
[11:02] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: seems like all ends in this KRun::processDesktopExec
[11:02] <Jucato> Tm_T: heh bitten by that bug. restart kicker, "dcop kicker kicker restart" or access the configuration through kcontrol
[11:02] <Tonio_> mhb: ping ?
[11:02] <_StefanS_> gotta run for 20 mins
[11:03] <Jucato> _StefanS_: exercising? :)
[11:03] <Tm_T> Jucato: aah, thanks
[11:03] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: interesting !
[11:03] <Tm_T> Jucato: I already panicked badly
[11:03] <Jucato> Tm_T: heheh :)
[11:03] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: I'm pretty sure it just uses kdesu but with a set of options kdesudo doesn't understand
[11:03] <Jucato> known bug. aseigo's stumped as to why it happens and how to fix it
[11:03] <Tonio_> Jucato: have the patch that mhb did for kdesu ?
[11:04] <Jucato> Tonio_: nope. only the screenshot. sorry :/
[11:04] <Tonio_> Jucato: hehe no pb ;)
[11:09] <meduxa> riddell it is a nice visit also for her I can arrange something so she don't get bored while you are working
[11:09] <meduxa> some cultural visit or go to the beach
[11:09] <meduxa> if you want to
[11:10] <Tonio_> Jucato: should we use the "keep password" thing in the box ?
[11:10] <hunger> Tonio_: No.
[11:10] <Jucato> Tonio_: hm... wouldn't that be useless?
[11:10] <Tonio_> Jucato: I think so
[11:10] <Tonio_> I just don't find how to change the icon.....
[11:11] <Tonio_> that uses the kpassworddialog class....
[11:11] <Tonio_> I don't see any option to set the icon....
[11:13] <meduxa> riddell the organization will do something for the visitors girlfriends, I suppose
[11:13] <Tonio_> Jucato: you should look if the substitude thing doesn't use kdesu_stub
[11:15] <Riddell> :)
[11:15] <Riddell> i'll see what she says
[11:23] <meduxa> ok, let me know
[11:23] <_StefanS_> I'm back
[11:23] <meduxa> richard dale will also be ahppy to see you, and Cristo
[11:23] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: there is an option
[11:23] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: let me find it for you
[11:25] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: what method do you use for your kpasswordialog?
[11:25] <_StefanS_> Tonio_:
[11:25] <_StefanS_> KPasswordDialog::KPasswordDialog(Types type, bool enableKeep, int extraBttn, const QString& icon,
[11:25] <_StefanS_>                                   QWidget *parent, const char *name )
[11:25] <_StefanS_> ^ this will work
[11:27] <Tonio_> saw that
[11:27] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: now I have to figure out how to write that in the code :)
[11:27] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: whats the hold up then ? :)
[11:27] <Tonio_> my cpp knowledge is about 0
[11:27] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: just "desktop"
[11:27] <Tonio_> you mean ?
[11:29] <Tonio_> QWidget::setIcon
[11:29] <Tonio_> hehe ;)
[11:30] <Jucato> everytime I see a Q, I get all excited :)
[11:31] <Tonio_> Jucato: to be honnest, my cpp knowledge is a bit too limited for this
[11:31] <Jucato> Tonio_: same here. I'm still learning C++ in fact :)
[11:31] <Tonio_> Jucato: the point is I don't know how to redifine a class to add new options etc......
[11:31] <Tonio_> Jucato: you know 100x better than me :)
[11:32] <Jucato> haha probably not... but I think what you're looking for is inheriting a class
[11:32] <Jucato> and either overloading the function or creating a new one...*shrugs*
[11:32] <Jucato> _StefanS_ definitely knows better than either of us :)
[11:42] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: just add the syntax I gave to you the class in the header file, and then you should be able to call it with the extra arguments
[11:43] <Tm_T> hmm, someone, change window behaviour settings: set mousewheel over window border to do something different and check if it works
[11:44] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: thats why I said, your don't figure out my limitations in cpp :)
[11:44] <_StefanS_> Tm_T: what if you dont have a mouse? :)
[11:45] <Tm_T> _StefanS_: then go out and sing a while?
[11:45] <_StefanS_> Tm_T: just been out, got any other ideas?
[11:45] <_StefanS_> Tm_T: I could shut up.. :D
[11:46] <Tm_T> _StefanS_: how about singing in shower?
[11:46] <_StefanS_> Tm_T: they dont have showers here at work :D
[11:46] <Tm_T> no, wait, I know, find high place, like rooftop and try if you can fly!
[11:46] <Tm_T> I bet you can
[11:48] <_StefanS_> Tm_T: hey behave now..
[11:48] <_StefanS_> :)
[11:49] <Tm_T> be-have?
[11:50] <_StefanS_> yksi kakksi kolme
[11:50] <_StefanS_> or something
[11:50] <Tm_T> kaksi :)
[11:50] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: I have that code for your .h file if you want
[11:52] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: kdebase/kdesu/sudlg.cpp|.h has a good example
[11:53] <_StefanS_> gotta run
[12:16] <Tonio_> mhb: :'(
[12:17] <Tonio_> siretart: got my email yesterday concerning xine-lib ftbfs ?
[12:28] <siretart> Tonio_: yes, I think we should fix gs in any case, but I don't have the time and energy to look more deeply into it :(
[12:28] <siretart> thanks for the buildlog anyway
[12:28] <Tonio_> siretart: sure, I'll have a look ;)
[12:28] <Tonio_> thanks
[12:33] <Tm_T> :)
[12:34] <Tm_T> I wonder what but, congrats
[12:34] <imbrandon> Tm_T, she is core-dev now too
[12:35] <imbrandon> time for me to do some merges
[12:35] <Jucato> Hobbsee: congrats!!!!
[12:35] <Hobbsee> :D
[12:35] <Tm_T> aah, GREAT! \o/ \o) (o/
[12:35] <Jucato> Tm_T: those two ASCII guys at the center and right, look like they're smelling their armpits :)
[12:36] <imbrandon> Riddell, i seen a hilight from the meeting about konvi and my name ? did i bork something ?>
[12:36] <Tm_T> Jucato: they are
[12:36] <Jucato> ew :)
[12:36] <imbrandon> Jucato, the one on the right is me
[12:36] <imbrandon> :)
[12:36] <Riddell> imbrandon: in konversation?  don't think so
[12:36] <Jucato> lol
[12:36] <imbrandon> Riddell, ahh okies
[12:36] <Riddell> imbrandon: but upstream did request we change these http://konversation.kde.org/kubuntu-issues.txt
[12:37] <Jucato> imbrandon: did you see how many times you were also highlighted for the KCC position? :)
[12:37] <imbrandon> Jucato, no i dident count? i was fast asleep, just going through the log now
[12:37] <Jucato> aw.. :)
[12:37] <imbrandon> am i nominated ? heheh
[12:38] <mhb> Tonio_: hi
[12:38] <mhb> Tonio_: was it my english that made you sad? :o)
[12:40] <mhb> Jucato: still here?
[12:40] <Jucato> mhb: um. wait. I'll be back in a sec
[12:40] <imbrandon> Riddell, ahhh yes the same old complaints, i'll see about gettign those changed very soon but also there is some rebuttle we should consider, mainly the fact that we arent upstream, we dont ship a "packaged upstream" for anything nor should we, but yea i see some of the points
[12:43] <Jucato> back. mhb, how can I be of service? :)
[12:43] <imbrandon> Jucato, holly jesus i got hilighted alot , yea we had ( are having ) very storms so i couldent make it
[12:43] <imbrandon> cool to see all the nominations though :)
[12:43] <Jucato> hehe :)
[12:44] <mhb> Jucato: you mentioned me twice ... I will read the logs first and then I will ask
[12:45] <Jucato> mhb: only twice? O.o
[12:45] <Tonio_> mhb: hey :)
[12:45] <Tonio_> mhb: I'm just registering a team and a project on launchpad for kdesudo
[12:45] <Tonio_> mhb: would you be interested adding your kdesu changes to this ?
[12:45] <Jucato> mhb: I was explaining to Tonio_ your patch modifying the prompt/text for kdesu.
[12:45] <Tonio_> mhb: this might replace kdesu for gutsy
[12:46] <Jucato> now you got 6 more highlights :)
[12:46] <Tonio_> Jucato: btw I've added you, mhb and stefans to the team at the moment
[12:46] <mhb> Tonio_: yes, of course
[12:46] <ryanakca> Riddell: shall I add a blurb on planet congratulating the 3 new KC people, since nobody has announced it yet?
[12:46] <Jucato> kool! I can help test :)
[12:46] <ryanakca> or would you rather? :)
[12:47] <mhb> Tonio_: actually, RadiantFire did the most work on that patch
[12:47] <Riddell> ryanakca: UWN better
[12:47] <mhb> Tonio_: but I will be happy to port it
[12:47] <Tonio_> mhb: hehe thanks :)
[12:47] <Jucato> mhb: ah you and RadiantFire were able to talk? good good. (he was looking for your)
[12:48] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'm a bit lost with launchpad... no explanation on how to create an empty branch...
[12:48] <Riddell> bzr init; bzr push
[12:48] <Tonio_> I've bzr init in the the source tree, and did a commit, where does this go ?
[12:48] <Riddell> that commits to the local repository
[12:48] <Tonio_> Riddell: yeah I did that, but I don't know where it goes :)
[12:49] <Riddell> Tonio_: unless you explicitly have a checkout with bzr, it's a local archive
[12:49] <Tonio_> Riddell: so how to get this on launchpad ? ;)
[12:49] <Riddell> Tonio_: then you need to push to launchpad on the correct project name, registrant and branch
[12:49] <Jucato> Hobbsee: don't move too much :)
[12:49] <Riddell> Tonio_: see https://code.launchpad.net/ and click the help tab
[12:49] <Hobbsee> hehe
[12:49] <Tonio_> Riddell: well I did, but I'll probably read again :)
[12:50] <Riddell> bzr push<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[12:50] <Riddell> Tonio_: what are you making?
[12:50] <imbrandon> wow so the NEW KCC people were nominated and voted on and finalized and used all in the same meeting ?
[12:51] <Tonio_> Riddell: a branch for kdesudo
[12:51] <mhb> if you are doing kdesudo, dont do /~john/froboize but /~kubuntu-kdesudo/froboize
[12:52] <Riddell> imbrandon: the alternative is to spend a month discussing it and voting in polls, but I think we're lucky enough to have a community with enough consensus that we don't need to have that beurocracy
[12:52] <Tonio_> Riddell: there is no homepage, code is unmaintained..... that's what launchpad is for right ? ^_^
[12:52] <Riddell> Tonio_: sure, so create a product on launchpad for it
[12:52] <Tonio_> Riddell: done too
[12:52] <Tonio_> product + branch + team
[12:52] <Riddell> Tonio_: then create a team if you want the archive to be directly commit-able by more than yourself
[12:52] <Jucato> yay team :)
[12:53] <Riddell> then bzr push to that team with a suitable branch name (probably trunk)
[12:53] <Riddell> you may also need --create-prefix for the first push
[12:53] <Tonio_> thanks :)
[12:53] <Tonio_> ho ! as with svn in fact
[12:54] <imbrandon> no but a day/week of votes would have been nice, specialy for a team that can grant memberships, not that i disagree with the decision made, i +1 for all 3 mmebers, just seems very very odd
[12:54] <imbrandon> Riddell, ^
[12:55] <imbrandon> i mean the new team wasent even acked by the TB or anything
[12:55] <imbrandon> like the first
[12:55] <imbrandon> anyhow i must grab a shower then got some konversation and merges to do :)\
[12:55] <Riddell> the TB has never acked the existance of KC, we're self defining
[12:55] <imbrandon> :)
[12:55] <imbrandon> bbiab
[12:56] <imbrandon> Riddell, they did when they said we could start granting memberships
[12:56] <imbrandon> as with all other teams with that power
[12:56] <Riddell> no, I was told I could grant memberships
[12:56] <Riddell> and I was uncomfotable doing that on my own so we made the KC
[12:57] <imbrandon> ...
[12:57] <ryanakca> Riddell: okies
[12:57] <Riddell> they never even discussed publically the moving membership thing to me and ogra, we were just given the powers one day
[12:58] <Riddell> (it was CC come to think of it, not TB, being membership)
[12:58] <imbrandon> they dicussed it very publicly , it was even a spec at uds-mtv , and yes the CC not TB
[12:58] <imbrandon> because not just you and orga but the MC and FC also
[12:58] <imbrandon> and now the IRCC
[12:58] <Riddell> yeah, but kubuntu and edubuntu devolved powers were before uds-mtv
[12:59] <imbrandon> right but those practices still covered the whole community not just "new" ones
[01:00] <imbrandon> anyhow all in all not a big deal, i dident mean to make this big of a stink about it, i was just kinda thrwon back when it was all done start to finish in an hour
[01:04] <imbrandon> ... i killed the room, whoops
[01:04] <imbrandon> congrats Hobbsee again ! :)
[01:05] <Riddell> imbrandon: you're ment to be showering :)
[01:07] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: thankyou :)
[01:14] <Tonio_> Jucato, mhb: https://launchpad.net/kdesudo
[01:14] <Tonio_> you have everything there
[01:15] <mhb> Tonio_: thanks
[01:16] <mhb> Tonio_: you could probably populate the "TODO" file
[01:16] <Tonio_> mhb: sure
[01:22] <Tonio_> mhb: do you know how to create a .pot file from source ?
[01:22] <Tonio_> mhb: I've been searching for a doc concerning this, but haven't been able to find anything.......
[01:22] <mhb> there is one, I'm sure
[01:22] <mhb> I forgot the command
[01:23] <mhb> wait, I'll look
[01:25] <mhb> http://www.gnu.org/software/gettext/manual/gettext.html
[01:26] <mhb> Tonio_: for you
[01:27] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: yeah, we're making progress.  although people still wouldnt listen to me much when i said "take it to the list"
[01:28] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: and it was 2 hours, iirc
[01:29] <Tonio_> mhb looking
[01:55] <Tonio_> mhb: just commited on bzr with pot file and french translation
[01:57] <mhb> Tonio_: great
[01:57] <mhb> Tonio_: I'm working on that patch now
[02:00] <Tonio_> mhb: super
[02:01] <Tonio_> mhb: do you have the needed infos for bzr ?
[02:02] <mhb> Tonio_: I think I do
[02:02] <mhb> Tonio_: I'm working with launchpad and bzr quite often
[02:02] <Tonio_> https://code.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-kdesudo/kdesudo/trunk
[02:02] <Tonio_> mhb: great
[02:02] <Tonio_> I must say I'm not very used to bazaar
[02:03] <mhb> Tonio_: I've grown to like it, perhaps a bit more than SVN
[02:04] <Tonio_> mhb: hehe
[02:05] <Tonio_> Riddell: remember the uds, I told you that was usable, you didn't believe me :)
[02:05] <Tonio_> Jucato: hehe, thanks for training your french :)
[02:05] <Jucato> lol
[02:06] <Riddell> Tonio_: I'm the skeptical type :) it still needs to go through a strict main inclusion review for security
[02:06] <mhb> Riddell: totally
[02:06] <Hobbsee> Riddell: which you can now do, right?
[02:06] <Tonio_> Riddell: of course, but we'll do it
[02:07] <Riddell> Hobbsee: crivvens no, security reviews need someone who knows what they're doing
[02:07] <Jucato> "crivvens"? O.o
[02:07] <Hobbsee> Riddell: awww.  and you dont/ you're part of the release team now, remember
[02:07] <nosrednaekim> "some one who know what they're doing" is a new way of saying hacker...
[02:07] <nosrednaekim> ;)
[02:08] <Riddell> Hobbsee: main reviewers is different from release team is different from archive-admins (admins can do the moving to main but it still needs reviewed first by pitti or iwj)
[02:08] <kwwii> Jucato: that's ok, last night Riddell said "toot" and didn't mean fart :-)
[02:08] <Jucato> lol
[02:08] <Jucato> hi kwwii! :)
[02:08] <kwwii> hi Jucato
[02:09] <kwwii> sorry Riddell, I know your language preceeds mine ;-)
[02:09] <Riddell> kwwii: that's french
[02:09] <Riddell> I was being cultured
[02:09] <kwwii> lol
[02:09] <kwwii> a cultured fart is still a fart
[02:09] <kwwii> :p
[02:09] <Hobbsee> Riddell: ahh.  i thought you could, being an archive admin
[02:10] <kwwii> ok, I've got the childishness out of me
[02:10] <Hobbsee> kwwii: we should have some temporary artwork for tribe 1.
[02:11] <kwwii> Hobbsee: we might be able to come up with a couple of things before the freeze on tusday
[02:11] <kwwii> tuesday
[02:11] <Hobbsee> kwwii: oh good
[02:11] <kwwii> perhaps a nice developer pic for a splash screen
[02:11] <Hobbsee> my little pony or something?
[02:11] <imbrandon> heh
[02:11] <kwwii> and a my little pony desktop bg
[02:12] <Hobbsee> or one of the pictures from UDS
[02:12] <Hobbsee> yep
[02:12] <kwwii> I should make it all pink and green just as a joke
[02:12] <Hobbsee> ooh, yeah, group shot as the desktop or something :P
[02:12] <mhb> Tonio_: patch almost done
[02:12] <Tonio_> mhb: you rock
[02:12] <mhb> Tonio_: I'd like to talk a bit about it with you, is PM fine?
[02:12] <Tonio_> PM ?
[02:12] <Hobbsee> query
[02:13] <Tonio_> mhb: ho sure :)
[02:13] <Jucato> Private Message :)
[02:14] <Lure> Hobbsee: congrats!!!
[02:15] <Lure> ;-)
[02:15] <Hobbsee> Lure: thankyou :)
[02:15] <Hobbsee> Lure: hehe.  they werent asking what i'd expected
[02:16] <Lure> Hobbsee: so it was easy, right? I told you...
[02:16] <Hobbsee> well, yeah, okay, it was.
[02:16] <Tonio_> Riddell: do you like to see the command on the password prompt ?
[02:16] <Hobbsee> they didnt have much time, as our release meeting ran over
[02:17] <Tonio_> Riddell: I don't, but I agree, that's better for the security
[02:18] <Riddell> Tonio_: I'd say it's vital, I'm really not comfortable with hiding it (and security is more important than usability whatever gnome thinks)
[02:18] <Tonio_> Riddell: okay ;)
[02:18] <mhb> Tonio_: see this thread, it's about kdesu but is discusses the same thing
[02:18] <mhb> Tonio_: http://lists.kde.org/?l=kde-devel&m=118044447700389&w=2
[02:20] <Tonio_> yup
[02:20] <Tonio_> mhb: there is no "discussion" on that thread, just one message with a patch :)
[02:23] <imbrandon> Riddell, konversation almost ready to upload per upstreams requests
[02:23] <Jucato> imbrandon: which of those requests? :)
[02:24] <Riddell> imbrandon: just taken out the patch for default channel?
[02:24] <imbrandon> Jucato, all for now, then when seele and team have a time to review "default" konversation we might reimplment them
[02:24] <imbrandon> some of them *
[02:24] <imbrandon> Riddell, basicly yes, and reverting to tabs
[02:24] <Riddell> imbrandon: aren't the other changes in k-d-s?
[02:24] <Jucato> ah ok.
[02:25] <imbrandon> Riddell, yes some of them
[02:25] <imbrandon> the c++ patch is in konvi
[02:25] <imbrandon> the rest in k-d-s
[02:25] <mhb> Tonio_: there is, at least there was last time I read that
[02:26] <Riddell> imbrandon: I'm editing k-d-s, have you commited your changes?
[02:26] <Tonio_> Riddell: yup
[02:26] <mhb> Tonio_: go to "next in thread" a few times
[02:26] <imbrandon> Riddell, no, i'll wait for you to finish
[02:26] <imbrandon> i wasent gonna finish till later anyhow after food etc
[02:27] <Jucato> hm... food.. :)
[02:27] <Tonio_> mhb: ho a few times :)
[02:27] <Tonio_> strange :)
[02:28] <imbrandon> mmmm SecondLife + Kubuntu rocks
[02:30] <imbrandon> Ash-Fox, nice, keep me informed if you can, i would love to help/test those
[02:31] <Ash-Fox> imbrandon, sure ;)
[02:31] <Jucato> just when I totally quit Second Life :)
[02:31] <Jucato> (not that I was that into it...)
[02:31] <imbrandon> i spend way too much time in SecondLife
[02:31] <Jucato> hah! now we know where you are when you're supposedly "busy" :D
[02:32] <Ash-Fox> I use Second life for entertainment, but I notice many people who go into second life want to making a living immidately among other things off it.
[02:32] <Riddell> imbrandon: I'm done, upload whenever you want
[02:32] <imbrandon> Riddell, cool ok
[02:32] <imbrandon> Ash-Fox, yea i just play to play, i thought about making a buntu community island
[02:32] <imbrandon> or something sometime
[02:33] <Jucato> Ash-Fox: like Hawkwind? :)
[02:34] <Ash-Fox> Jucato, I heard he opened a club then fell out with someone and left -- I have no idea if he was trying to make money off it or what.
[02:34] <Jucato> Ash-Fox: nah. he was just trying to live a real life in SL :)
[02:34] <Jucato> got married, got houses, was about to have a baby :)
[02:35] <imbrandon> wow
[02:35] <Jucato> he was lucky. his SL wife was really addicted to SL.
[02:35] <Hobbsee> that's...interesting
[02:35] <Jucato> sugar mama
[02:35] <kwwii> that certainly says something about the quality of your real life if you feel the need to live in a virtual world
[02:35] <Ash-Fox> (How the heck to baby's work? Do you just have a scripted prim baby or.. just goto the welcome area and yell 'who wants to be my baby?')
[02:36] <Jucato> he quit though. got fed up with technical problems I guess
[02:36] <imbrandon> kwwii, haha yea
[02:36] <Jucato> although he does keep in touch in real life with his SL wife :)
[02:36] <mhb> kwwii: well yes, but sometimes it is bettre to just dream than really live what you want
[02:37] <Hobbsee> mhb: depending what you dream in, sometimes they turn to relaity anyway
[02:37] <kwwii> mhb: yeah, if you like sex with children or other freaky thing, perhaps
[02:37] <Hobbsee> urgh
[02:37] <Jucato> like Hobbsee's dream which became reality today? :)
[02:37] <mhb> kwwii: I do not :o)
[02:38] <kwwii> mhb: *right*, _I_ BELIEVE you! :p
[02:38] <Jucato> I don't believe him :)
[02:38] <imbrandon> kwwii, hahaha
[02:39] <Jucato> Ash-Fox: Real Life :)
[02:40] <Jucato> although I'm still interested in what SL offers, specially on the building/programming side.. might take a peek again if my 3D modeling urges kick back in :)
[02:41] <Ash-Fox> Jucato, I recently discovered LL had been working on in secret on a glowy-freeze-effect thing in Second life which I managed to activate through a few debugging settings http://ash-fox.quickfox.org/temp/Kitsuhana/ -- Some stuff that will probably come by default in future when they work out the bugs ;)
[02:41] <imbrandon> i initialy only joined because i wanted to script a etch-a-sketch
[02:41] <Ash-Fox> etch-a-sketch?
[02:42] <imbrandon> wha!?! you dont know what that is? you are too young
[02:42] <imbrandon> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etch_A_Sketch
[02:42] <Ash-Fox> I haven't lived in a English speaking country for 12 years, forgive me if I don't remember everything ;)
[02:42] <Ash-Fox> Oh that.. Thing, I used have one of those
[02:42] <mhb> Ash-Fox: watch Toy Story some more
[02:43] <imbrandon> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/be/EtchASketch10-23-2004.jpg
[02:43] <mhb> Ash-Fox: after all, you need to see it if you want to take part in Debian :o)
[02:44] <kwwii> ever seen the guy who can draw the mona lisa with an etch-a-sketch?
[02:44] <imbrandon> kwwii, nah
[02:44] <kwwii> simply amazing
[02:44] <imbrandon> Ash-Fox, yea etch just got released :)
[02:44] <imbrandon> ( thus the name )
[02:44] <imbrandon> kwwii, yea i bet, drawing on those is hard
[02:45] <imbrandon> would be a cool QT4 expirment to make a digital one
[02:45] <Ash-Fox> You have to wonder how much time he spent ignoring work/school to learn that
[02:46] <kwwii> good idea for a game
[02:46] <Ash-Fox> "Draw Mona lisa... in 3... 2... 1... Go!"
[02:46] <Ash-Fox> Sounds like a very difficult game :(
[02:46] <imbrandon> heh i think he meant the digital QT4 etch-a-sketch
[02:47] <Jucato> QuickTime?
[02:47] <Jucato> oh nvm...
[02:47] <Jucato> pfft

[02:48] <Jucato> "and do the cute 4 dance!"
[02:51] <imbrandon> the bets thing that aluminum powder ever did ;)
[02:51] <imbrandon> best*
[03:55] <Lure> Hobbsee: read the TB meeting log - nice discussion and you have raised some very good points
[03:56] <Hobbsee> Lure: :)
[03:56] <Hobbsee> Lure: i hoped so :)
[03:57] <Hobbsee> Lure: they seemed interested in the answers - and i was happy not to have to answer technical sticky questions
[03:57] <Hobbsee> and i'd just had a conference call about release management, so...had plenty to talk about on how canonical relates to the community
[03:58] <Lure> Hobbsee: this kind of "process" issues are somtimes much more important that "technical" details
[03:58] <Lure> Hobbsee: but you would be fine with technical issues too
[03:58] <Hobbsee> true
[03:58] <Hobbsee> assuming i could actually figure out what to answer
[03:59] <Lure> Hobbsee: I was really suprised that you were so concerned before the meeting
[03:59] <Hobbsee> heh.  i'd seen last time
[03:59] <Lure> Hobbsee: but last time you were just rejected as "you need a bit more time and better reason"
[03:59] <Hobbsee> true that
[04:00] <Lure> Hobbsee: it was just very soon after getting motu
[04:00] <Hobbsee> indeed
[04:09] <Tonio_> Jucato: the X-Kde-Substitute bug is fixed :)
[04:10] <Jucato> koolness! :)
[04:36] <Tonio_> Jucato: in fact kdesu is used with -c <command> via kdelibs
[04:36] <Tonio_> which is optional
[04:46] <Lure> can one of core-dev's confirm bug 118261
[04:46] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 118261 in digikamimageplugins "remove digikamimageplugins from the archive" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/118261
[04:46] <Lure> Tonio_, Riddell, Hobbsee: ^^^
[04:46] <Hobbsee> heh
[04:47] <Hobbsee> done
[04:48] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: can you nuke a package ?
[04:48] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: no
[04:48] <Tonio_> or did you just ping pitti ?
[04:48] <Tonio_> ;)
[04:48] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: but i can ack it
[04:48] <Tonio_> sure
[04:48] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: more to the point "not yet"
[04:48] <Hobbsee> who knows where i'll go next in world domination :P
[04:48] <Tonio_> who wants to test kdesudo ?
[04:49] <Tonio_> should perfectly replace kdesu now, also working from the substituteUID etc...
[04:49] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: hehe
[04:49] <Hobbsee> sounds like fun
[04:49] <Hobbsee> got a deb?
[04:50] <Lure> Hobbsee: thanks for your core-dev powers ;-)
[04:50] <Hobbsee> :)
[04:51] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: just building
[04:51] <Hobbsee> okay :)
[04:51] <Hobbsee> i386, hopefully
[04:51] <Tonio_> Lure: not interested ?
[04:51] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: of course :)
[04:51] <Lure> Tonio_: in what?
[04:51] <Hobbsee> cool
[04:51] <Tonio_> testing kdesudo :)
[04:52] <Lure> Tonio_: sure, where can I pick it?
[04:52] <Tonio_> Lure: just uploading the deb on my server
[04:52] <Tonio_> Lure: interesting thing to test first is that it deals with sudo directly, so the password should be remembered
[04:53] <Tonio_> Lure: after that, if you want to test with specific settings in the sudoers file ;)
[04:53] <Tonio_> Lure: which kdesu doesn't understand at all......
[04:53] <Lure> Tonio_: nice - so all .desktops that called kdesu, will then call kdesudo?
[04:53] <Tonio_> Lure: and also, you should have to launch adept twice for it to open, which is also a very annoying issue with kdesu
[04:53] <Tonio_> Lure: the package diverts kdesu and creates a link
[04:55] <Lure> Tonio_: are you running gutsy?  :D
[04:57] <Lure> Tonio_: it would be nice if there would be "More Info" button with full command line that will be executed
[04:57] <Lure> useful for security concerned users
[04:58] <Lure> Tonio_: I have dual-boot config, just in case - but /home is shared
[04:58] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: i believ eit's KDESudo
[04:58] <Lure> Tonio_: and I use 3.5.7 on feisty just to reduce the delta
[04:58] <Hobbsee> ooh, it does remember passwords
[04:59] <Lure> Hobbsee: yep - very nice
[05:00] <Tonio_> works nicelly for you ?
[05:00] <Hobbsee> seems to
[05:04] <Hobbsee> dont really know what to test for, though
[05:15] <yuriy> Hobbsee is core-dev now?
[05:15] <yuriy> yay!
[05:15] <Hobbsee> yuriy: yep
[05:15] <Hobbsee> PHEAR THE SCARY HOBBSEE!!!
[05:15] <nixternal> mornin'
[05:15] <Hobbsee> morning :)
[05:16] <Hobbsee> haha
[05:16] <nixternal> heh, Riddell already put it in the topic! good on ya mate!
[05:16] <Hobbsee> what amuses me was that htey werent asking technical questions, they were asking about UDS and such, and how to make all that better, and canonical/community perception
[05:16] <nixternal> hehe
[05:17] <nixternal> I am at the city level domination right now...I still have a bit to go
[05:17] <nixternal> Hobbsee: no need to ask technical questions since you have have already proven yourself
[05:17] <Hobbsee> supposedly, yeah
[05:20] <Tonio_> so what is the feeback for kdesudo ? any improments needed or so ?
[05:21] <yuriy> what's the difference from kdesu?
[05:21] <yuriy> (no, i haven't tried it)
[05:23] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: will test it over the next few days.  so far, looks good
[05:24] <Hobbsee> there's something screwed up in kcontrol...
[05:24] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: mhb is also hacking the code, we'll add the GenericName of the application used and possibly its icon
[05:25] <Hobbsee> right
[05:29] <manchicken> Tonio_: Ca-va?
[05:30] <Tonio_> manchicken: et toi ? :)
[05:30] <Tonio_> manchicken: great news, we might eventually get rid of the blotted kdesu :)
[05:30] <Tonio_> hehe
[05:30] <manchicken> Je vais bien :)
[05:30] <manchicken> Ooh.
[05:31] <manchicken> That sounds like something that might make me happy :)
[05:32] <Tonio_> manchicken: http://tonio.homelinux.org/temp
[05:32] <Tonio_> manchicken: test this
[05:32] <Tonio_> just install the package and play with kdesu
[05:32] <Tonio_> manchicken: remembers the password, deals with sudoers specific permissions (which kdesu doesn't)....
[05:32] <manchicken> Hmm....
[05:32] <Tonio_> manchicken: and that's maintained by kubuntu now :)
[05:32] <manchicken> Nice.
[05:33] <manchicken> That's only 32-bit.
[05:33] <manchicken> I'm amd64 :)
[05:33] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: how long does it remember the password for?
[05:34] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: as long as sudo remembers it ;)
[05:34] <Tonio_> manchicken: build from source :)
[05:34] <Hobbsee> which is?
[05:34] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: I think 15 minutes
[05:34] <manchicken> Naw, I'm in the middle of a taterbase conversion.
[05:35] <manchicken> Remember, it's only 10:34 here :)
[05:35] <Hobbsee> nice
[05:46] <mhb> hmm
[05:47] <mhb> I'm having a bit of a complex problem
[05:47] <mhb>  KGlobal::dirs()->findResource("apps","kate.desktop") should return the path to the kate.desktop file on my system, but it doesn't
[05:49] <mhb> http://api.kde.org/3.5-api/kdelibs-apidocs/kdecore/html/classKStandardDirs.html
[05:49] <mhb> on the other hand, searching for a library works just fine
[05:56] <nixternal> Hobbsee: was that a netsplit?
[05:57] <nixternal> ya, I take it it was
[05:57] <nixternal> everyone is coming back
[05:59] <mhb> I hate netsplits
[06:00] <nixternal> ya
[06:25] <fdoving> Hobbsee: congrats, core-dev and all :)
[06:30] <Lure> Hobbsee: we need more upload for rebuild due to exiv2 upgrade
[06:30] <Lure> Hobbsee: can you do it?
[06:30] <Lure> Hobbsee: ufraw and kphotoalbum
[06:30] <Hobbsee> fdoving: thankyou :)
[06:31] <Hobbsee> Lure: can you poke me in >6 hours about it?
[06:31] <Lure> Hobbsee: right you also deserve some sleep ;-)
[06:32] <Hobbsee> mmm...that too
[06:33] <Lure> Hobbsee: will bother some other core-dev - we have plenty now ;-)
[06:34] <Hobbsee> :)
[08:11] <nixternal> I think someone came to my house and turned up the humidity
[08:11] <nixternal> I know I have air conditioning and heating, but humidity is a feature I didn't know I had ;)
[08:43] <_StefanS_> evenings
[08:43] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: hey I saw you added me on the kdesudo ;)
[08:46] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: you might be of great help right ?? ^_^
[08:46] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: ah yes hopefully
[08:46] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: just build a package with new functionnalities, want to test ?
[08:46] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: yes please send
[08:46] <Tonio_> it resolves the desktop files via the exec and display genericname and the app icon automatically
[08:47] <_StefanS_> so now it works with x-kde-* ?
[08:47] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: unfortunatelly, that works in desktop files with kdesu, but doesn't with the substitute thiing
[08:47] <Tonio_> the substitution is fine to launch the app btw, so that's a minor issue, will fix later
[08:47] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: oh sorry, now I get it :)
[08:48] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: bah only te icon + genericname resolution fails with the x-kde-*
[08:48] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: so you used that code I gave you with the icon inside the method cool?
[08:48] <_StefanS_> cool/call
[08:48] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: mhb rewrote everything
[08:48] <_StefanS_> uhm ok
[08:48] <Tonio_> no -i option to pass the icon, resolved automatically within the desktop file
[08:49] <_StefanS_> ok
[08:49] <_StefanS_> So its almost only the fade effect we need now
[08:49] <Tonio_> yep
[08:49] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: http://tonio.homelinux.org/temp
[08:49] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: you have bzr access to the branch
[08:50] <_StefanS_> alright, I sure hope kpassworddialog behaves this time about window type and popup
[08:50] <Tonio_> http://launchpad.net/kdesudo
[08:50] <Tonio_> everything is there
[08:50] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: I need some help on bazaar
[08:50] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: got a tutorial handy?
[08:50] <Tonio_> https://code.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-kdesudo/kdesudo/trunk
[08:50] <Tonio_> the brahc
[08:50] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: just do that :
[08:51] <Tonio_> bzr checkout sftp://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-kdesudo/kdesudo/trunk
[08:51] <_StefanS_> ah nice
[08:51] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: btw you need to have your ssh key on launchpad, is it there
[08:51] <_StefanS_> its all written on the page
[08:51] <Tonio_> ?
[08:51] <_StefanS_> yes its there
[08:51] <Tonio_> so you can checkout and commit
[08:52] <_StefanS_> what frontend do you use for bazaar?
[08:52] <Tonio_> no frontend....... CLI is your friend :)
[08:52] <Tonio_> bzr checkout the first time
[08:52] <_StefanS_> alright, I just thought I saw something like that in the past
[08:52] <_StefanS_> cli is fine
[08:52] <Tonio_> then "bzr status" to check the changes
[08:52] <Tonio_> "bzr add xxx" to add the new files
[08:53] <Tonio_> same way than svn in fact
[08:53] <_StefanS_> ok
[08:53] <Tonio_> and bzr commit -m "blabla"
[08:54] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: I'm pretty proud of the result since the all app was completly broken for 4 years :)
[08:54] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: once you have added the effect, we'll probably release a tarball using kde-apps.org as homepage
[08:54] <_StefanS_> sounds very good
[08:55] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: we need to maintain this, kdesu is overbloated :)
[08:55] <_StefanS_> have you noticed that it doesn't always launch either?
[08:55] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: no emergency on that point, just do that when you can
[08:55] <_StefanS_> very anoying
[08:55] <mhb> "bzr viz" is also useful, shows how the code was developed
[08:55] <_StefanS_> I will.
[08:55] <mhb> but you need "bzr-gtk" package for that
[08:56] <Tonio_> didn't knew that :)
[08:56] <mhb> displays all the changes
[08:56] <mhb> all the commits, to be exact
[08:56] <mhb> bzr diff shows all the changes from the last revision
[08:56] <Tonio_> mhb: fixed a few other issues on resolving genericname with several parameters, everything is fine now
[08:56] <Tonio_> I'm done for today
[08:56] <mhb> good
[08:56] <mhb> :o)
[08:57] <Tonio_> mhb: package is available at http://tonio.homelinux.org/temp
[08:57] <Tonio_> mhb: have fun ;)
[08:57] <mhb> thanks
[08:58] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'd appreciate your feedback, Mr Pessimist ;)
[08:58] <Tonio_> mhb: this WE I'll update the authors page, todo etc...
[08:58] <Tonio_> your name misses there ;)
[08:59] <yuriy> why not have its sourceforge page be its homepage?
[08:59] <Tonio_> yuriy: I don't want to develop a website
[08:59] <Tonio_> s/develop/code
[08:59] <Tonio_> yuriy: and a sf project page is just ugly
[08:59] <Tonio_> kde-apps is juste nice
[08:59] <Tonio_> easier to maintain
[08:59] <yuriy> i mean, has whoever originally coded it like, gone? or might they care to have your changes?
[09:00] <Tonio_> yuriy: code has been unmaintained for 4 years
[09:00] <_StefanS_> = gone
[09:00] <_StefanS_> :D
[09:00] <_StefanS_> launchpad page and kde-apps is very fine for this project
[09:00] <Tonio_> no chance he gives me the keys of the homepage and sf project page :)
[09:01] <Tonio_> yuriy: the point is that sf is nice if you want a bugtracker etc.... but for that we have launchpad
[09:01] <Tonio_> all we need is a homepage, easy to maintain
[09:01] <Tonio_> so kde-apps offers the required stuff ;)
[09:02] <_StefanS_> yea its just a little apps
[09:02] <_StefanS_> apps/app
[09:03] <_StefanS_> ah sweet, just got my new core duo 2.16ghz server up and running
[09:03] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: but sometimes small apps work better than big ones :) aka kdesu
[09:03] <_StefanS_> yes, indeed
[09:03] <_StefanS_> I will check it out now
[11:20] <nixternal> The Release Team has decided that it is time to close the books on KDE 3.5.
[11:20] <nixternal> groovy!
[11:25] <ryanakca> cool.. so that means that the next release is what? 4.0?
[11:25] <ryanakca> or is that just for documentation?
[11:26] <_StefanS_> nixternal: the kde release team?
[11:26] <nixternal> 3.5.8
[11:26] <nixternal> September, bug fixes only
[11:27] <ryanakca> ah
[11:27] <nixternal> _StefanS_: winterz sent that to the kde-devel list
[11:27] <mhb> I don't think it's very groovy, though
[11:27] <ryanakca> ?
[11:27] <nixternal> ??
[11:27] <nixternal> hehe
[11:27] <mhb> we're stuck with KDE3 until April at least
[11:28] <ryanakca> nixternal: hmm. is using gobby.ubuntu.com permissible (new document) for documentation?
[11:28] <toma> kde 3.5 is super stable and an awesome release cycle
[11:28] <_StefanS_> does kde4 have a working desktop at the moment btw?
[11:28] <nixternal> ryanakca: you can copy and paste and save as .xml so it will work...just won't get the highlighting or the indentation
[11:28] <ryanakca> _StefanS_: I think so, saw a couple pictures on planet KDE
[11:28] <ryanakca> nixternal: is there a better app than gobby then?
[11:29] <nixternal> working, somewhat...
[11:29] <_StefanS_> ryanakca: uhm ok
[11:29] <nixternal> not for collaborative stuff like what you want to I don't think
[11:29] <nixternal> ryanakca: we could take it to the wiki and put all of the code in the {{{ }}}, but that is slow
[11:29] <mhb> toma: but from what nixternal said I thought that we have to fix bugs on KDE3 from September to April only by ourselves
[11:30] <ryanakca> nixternal: yeah. Would be cool to have a KDE version of gobby with highlighting and what not
[11:30] <toma> mhb: in october 4.0 will be released
[11:30] <nixternal> mhb: KDE devs will fix some bugs and release 3.5.8...from there it is up to us to patch bugs if need be sure
[11:30] <nixternal> ryanakca: I think you just came up with a new project..get on it :)
[11:30] <toma> mhb: there is always a gap for distro's just after a new major release, non?
[11:30] <ryanakca> so many things I want to do, so little time :)
[11:31] <nixternal> toma: what is mailody's port to qt4 status? how is that coming along?
[11:31] <mhb> toma: JRiddell said at some point that gutsy+1 will have kde3
[11:31] <nixternal> mhb: he did say that, but iirc it wasn't set in stone
[11:31] <toma> nixternal: very, very slow
[11:32] <nixternal> fun...I need to take a small project and port it to qt4 so I can pick it up a little better
[11:32] <toma> nixternal: i'm demotivated and busy with real life things
[11:32] <nixternal> heh, when it comes to coding stuff now...I get a second wind
[11:33] <mhb> is there anyone familiar with widget and their codeNames?
[11:33] <nixternal> mhb: 16:22:10 [    thiago]  if a 3.5.8 or 3.5.9 will exist depends on the amount of bugs fixes
[11:33] <nixternal> there you go, so there could be a 3.5.9 as well in the future
[11:33] <toma> sure
[11:34] <toma> but i dont think much bugs will get fixed after 4.0 is actually released
[11:34] <mhb> I wonder how the horizontalBlackAndWhiteLine is called
[11:34] <toma> zebra?
[11:34] <mhb> hehe :o)
[11:35] <mhb> not sure
[11:35] <mhb> kde widget's and stuff isn't that original
[11:35] <_StefanS_> I'm curious to see if all the icon flickering has gone away now that they are using the qt4 toolkit
[11:35] <_StefanS_> looks like crap
[11:36] <ryanakca> mhb: hmmm. You experienced with PyQt4?
[11:36] <nixternal> heh, imagemagick just crashed my kde4 box
[11:36] <ryanakca> ouch
[11:36] <mhb> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MartinB%c3%b6hm/Meetings/KubuntuGutsyPolyester?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=widget-style-polyester.png -- could someone look at the picture and tell me how the "Preview-----------" line is called?
[11:36] <mhb> in widgetish
[11:37] <mhb> ryanakca: not today
[11:37] <mhb> ryanakca: I've been hacking C++ all day
[11:37] <ryanakca> mhb: ah
[11:37] <mhb> ryanakca: what's the problem?
[11:38] <mhb> ryanakca: I don't hack pyqt4 very often, but the documentation is more than enough for me to code it usually
[11:38] <nixternal> ryanakca: when you find that person, let me know
[11:39] <ryanakca> mhb: yeah, The Class reference is good, I have the encryption algorithm done, and the .ui ready...
[11:39] <nixternal> I have read every PyQt4 page there is on the internet...I think the problem lies within not knowing python at all though
[11:39] <ryanakca> just a sec, I'll get an example of what is confusing me
[11:40] <_StefanS_> great.. ati just released another useless fglrx update
[11:40] <nixternal> lol
[11:40] <_StefanS_> its becoming a habit
[11:40] <_StefanS_> jeez, where the heck is the glx_from_bitmap thingy?? jeez
[11:41] <ryanakca> mhb:  http://codebrowse.launchpad.net/~ryanakca/kcipher/trunk/annotate/ryanakca%40kubuntu.org-20070504201043-khzcwpafjt8sf7av?start_revid=ryanakca%40kubuntu.org-20070504201043-khzcwpafjt8sf7av&file_id=kcipher.py-20070411235411-7aqsa0dxxy5xdm53-1 ... MainWindow(), is where I'm stuck...
[11:42] <nixternal> whoa
[11:42] <nixternal> how about a tinyurul?
[11:42] <ryanakca> lol, yes, now that I see it. Didn't look that long when I pasted it.
[11:42] <mhb> doubleclick selects the link for me
[11:43] <nixternal> ya, I have nicklist.pl in irssi, so when I highlight for klipper it picks up a couple of nicks as well
[11:43] <nixternal> got it now :)
[11:45] <mhb> ryanakca: I'm sorry, I'm too tired to think at this hour
[11:45] <mhb> (23:45 here)
[11:45] <ryanakca> mhb: okies, don't worry