[11:40] <gary_poster> hey luca.  I suddenly have 20 minutes free. :-) I have a few follow-up questions about your reply (whicvh I really appreciate).  Do you have a moment, or are you lunching?
[11:41] <luca> sure, guicaht?
[11:41] <luca> guichat^
[11:45] <gary_poster> luca thanks yes
[11:45] <gary_poster> sorry didn't see
[12:25] <rick_h> luca: got a sec?
[12:30] <frankban> guihelp: I need to retrieve the env object from within a viewlet. Is there a way for viewlets to access their own viewContainer?
[12:31] <rick_h> frankban: shouldn't the view container give the viewlet anything it needs? Pass down cfg or helpers?
[12:31] <bac> frankban: i need to do the same thing and have modified the call to render to accept it.  hold on and i'll paste my changes
[12:33] <bac> frankban: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5804591/
[12:34] <rick_h> bac: why not just pass in the db? Seems like this connects the two classes a lot now for testing and such?
[12:34] <frankban> bac: very nice, thank you
[12:37] <frankban> rick_h: how to retrieve, e.g., the env from the db then? However, perhaps we could just pass ViewContainer.options?
[12:37] <rick_h> frankban: yea, I was seeing that. This is added to the root class vs a class that's later inheriting I guess.
[12:38] <rick_h> frankban: I like the idea of an optional cfg second param instead
[12:38] <rick_h> render(model, options)
[12:39] <bac> frankban: but i'm passing the viewcontainer.  can't you get options and env from it?
[12:39] <frankban> sounds good, also extended to the other viewlet methods I guess. what is options? viewContainer.options?
[12:39] <frankban> rick_h: ^^^
[12:39] <bac> frankban: yeah
[12:40] <rick_h> bac: render(model, {db: ciewContainer.get('db')})
[12:40] <bac> rick_h: sorry i didn't see your comment
[12:40] <rick_h> frankban: options is just a arg name.
[12:40] <rick_h> frankban: call it cfg, foobar, whatever. Basically a space for passing in any optional data?
[12:40] <rick_h> frankban: I guess I'm just looking at this diff and not the big picture of how it's working. So ignore me if it doesn't apply I guess.
[12:40] <bac> rick_h: bcsaller, hatch and i discussed this yesterday and thought it may need to be broader, but i see your point
[12:41] <rick_h> I just get twitchy when I see something getting the full instance of something else as those two classes are now tied at the hip vs something more generic
[12:41] <frankban> rick_h: AFAICT this is a framework, our render is called for us, so I guess we must decide what to pass as second arg
[12:42] <rick_h> frankban: right, then nvm I guess. I've not used it yet so was looking at things like a Y.View calling another Y.View where it has control over how render is called
[12:42] <rick_h> frankban: is the init custom then?
[12:42] <rick_h> frankban: e.g. could the viewlet be given optional init config and then it's already there for this.render()?
[12:45] <frankban> rick_h: you can pass options to the viewContainer initializer (an Y.View). a viewlet is more a configuration object, with hooks/methods called by the viewContainer. It seems nice to me if the viewlet can receive (or store, as you suggested) those option values. I am also fine with Brad;s solution of passing the whole viewContainer, even if I guess we will be mostly interested in its options
[13:01] <luca> rick_h: I'm in a meeting now for an hour but can we catch-up after?
[13:02] <rick_h> luca: sent an email on your way. Feel free to reply to that or we can chat after your meeting.
[13:02] <luca> rick_h: ah brilliant, cheers :)
[13:02] <frankban> BradCrittenden, rick_h:  what I described: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5804671/
[13:04] <rick_h> frankban: cool. I like that way it's limited to bits of data vs the whole class and the temtation to try to share methods/etc across. Seems less 'dirty'.
[13:07] <BradCrittenden> frankban: looks good
[13:16] <teknico> anyone up for a second review of https://codereview.appspot.com/10677043/ ?
[13:28] <gary_poster> teknico, any takers?  if not, please invoke j u j u g u i :-)
[13:29] <gary_poster> luca, I don't understand this line from inspector behavior:
[13:29] <gary_poster> "You can scroll the inspector but the scroll goes underneath the dark grey divider line"
[13:29] <teknico> gary_poster: nope, proceeding with deployment of Secret Weapon
[13:30] <gary_poster> cool teknico :-)
[13:30] <gary_poster> luca, and that line seems key :-)
[13:30]  * gary_poster goes to another call, but more explanation would be great
[13:30] <BradCrittenden> gary_poster: we up?
[13:31] <bac> brb
[13:31] <gary_poster> we are bac
[13:31] <gary_poster> cool
[13:31] <teknico> `juju deploy jujugui`: anyone up for a second review of https://codereview.appspot.com/10677043/ ?
[13:31] <gary_poster> heh
[13:31] <benji> teknico: hi, I'll take it
[13:32] <bac> gary_poster: am i in the wrong place?
[13:32] <teknico> benji: I mean, thank you ;-)
[13:32] <teknico> whoops
[13:32] <gary_poster> bac, maybe.  1c5347001459ec985658a81e5c3a019abc715e05 ?
[13:33] <gary_poster> bac from calendar
[13:33] <bac> no, did it change with the new calendar invite?
[13:33] <teknico> benji: thank you
[13:44] <benji> rick_h: have a minute for some browser wierdness discussion?
[13:46] <rick_h> benji: sec, finishing up standup
[13:46] <benji> l
[13:46] <benji> k
[13:46] <benji> now everyone knows I'm using a QWERTY keyboard
[13:46] <rick_h> doh!
[14:00] <gary_poster> bac, you still here?
[14:00] <teknico> is anyone able to "make code-doc" successfully in trunk?
[14:01] <rick_h> teknico: nope
[14:02] <rick_h> benji: free now, guichat?
[14:02] <benji> rick_h: I figured it out. Your contribution will be noted for posterity.
[14:03] <rick_h> woot! I love being awesomely helpful by not attending!
[14:03] <rick_h> I guess 'by absence' would fit better
[14:05] <gary_poster> rick_h, hatch, either of you have idea on what to grep for for that yuidoc failure (http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5804801/)
[14:05] <gary_poster> ?
[14:07] <rick_h> gary_poster: looking
[14:08] <gary_poster> thx
[14:16] <hatch> gary_poster: try subapp
[14:16] <hatch> er
[14:16] <hatch> subclass
[14:16] <hatch> just thinking
[14:17] <gary_poster> hatch you mean grep for subclass?
[14:17] <hatch> yeah sorry
[14:17] <hatch> it's possible that the class isn't defined if ther is a subclass of juju.something
[14:18] <hatch> brb
[14:24] <hatch> gary_poster: any luck?
[14:24] <gary_poster> hatch, if you comment this out then yuidoc stops complaining
[14:24] <gary_poster> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5804847/
[14:24] <gary_poster> but
[14:24] <gary_poster> then there is nothing in the yuidoc directory (if you move any old ones aside first)
[14:25] <hatch> yeah that's definitely not right
[14:25] <hatch> umm can you bisect to find the failure
[14:25] <hatch> er...
[14:25] <hatch> check out the last revno
[14:25] <gary_poster> I can't--more mtgs--but maybe teknico? :-)
[14:26] <rick_h> I'm looking at where the error is thrown in node_modules/yuidocjs/lib/docparser.js and it makes no sense :/
[14:26] <rick_h> console.log(modules) [get a nice fancy list] console.log error'ing module [it's not in the previous list...]
[14:28] <rick_h> for some reason it's trying to find a 'juju' module but there isn't a 'juju' module file.
[14:28] <teknico> hatch: when can we have a one-on-one about viewlet/databinding?
[14:28] <hatch> nevvvaaaa
[14:28] <teknico> nice :-)
[14:28] <hatch> ok but really pretty soon
[14:28] <hatch> just waiting for the morning rush to slow down around here :)
[14:29] <teknico> rick_h: the first doc comment gary_post3r pointed out, in apps/subapps/browser/browser.js , says "@module juju"
[14:31] <hatch> bac: are you able to make a branch and commit with that view-container update? I can if you arent' able to
[14:31] <bac> hatch: frankban has come up with an alternative that looks better
[14:32] <hatch> oh? I thought that was pretty clean :) what's the alternative?
[14:32] <bac> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5804671/
[14:32] <bac> i haven't integrated his change yet
[14:32] <rick_h> teknico: gotcha. Yea, guess there's not really a juju module to be a part of. Ends up just a namespace.
[14:34] <rick_h> teknico: do the docs go anywhere?
[14:34] <rick_h> I must be blind today
[14:34] <hatch> bac: frankban hmm I don't really like that as much because then you don't have access to the viewlet for anything
[14:35] <teknico> rick_h: they should go in the top level yuidoc/ dir
[14:35] <teknico> rick_h: but it does not get created anymore
[14:35] <abentley> sinzui: Can we do a mid-imp review of https://code.launchpad.net/~abentley/charmworld/config-storage/+merge/171801 ?
[14:35] <rick_h> teknico: so I changed it to https://pastebin.canonical.com/93510/ and no error
[14:35] <rick_h> teknico: but no docs
[14:36] <rick_h> hatch: other way around?
[14:36] <rick_h> hatch: isn't this the viewlet getting access to the viewContainer?
[14:36] <bac> hatch: it gives what we need with less coupling.
[14:36] <hatch> yeah.....ok you're right I read this wrong
[14:36] <hatch> the context will still be the viewlet
[14:37]  * hatch goes to grab his coffee
[14:37] <teknico> rick_h: yeah, something else is amiss
[14:37] <luca> gary_poster: the divider line is the dark grey line under the "upgrade" available notification.
[14:42] <hatch> http://gizmodo.com/how-a-fridge-full-of-beer-that-only-unlocks-for-candian-596858353
[14:42] <hatch> rofl
[14:43] <hatch> teknico: ok want to chat now?
[14:44] <hatch> I have another call in 15 but we can probably get it done in time
[14:44] <teknico> hatch: yes please
[14:44] <hatch> guichat is open
[14:47] <adeuring> sinzui, abentley, jcsackett, rick_h could one of you review these two small MPs: https://code.launchpad.net/~adeuring/charmworld/1192559-forgotten-jenkins-results/+merge/171825 https://code.launchpad.net/~adeuring/charmworld/1192544-dont-hide-charms-with-processing-errors/+merge/171756
[14:47] <abentley> adeuring: looking.
[14:47] <adeuring> thanks
[14:49] <abentley> adeuring: could FailingStoreProviderResults be a function?
[14:50] <abentley> adeuring: You're replacing a function, so that seems intuitive to me.
[14:50] <adeuring> abentley: no, when you pass a function to patch.object(), it is called during the call of patch.object()
[14:50] <abentley> adeuring: Not in my experience.
[14:51] <adeuring> abentley: well, I tried it...
[14:51] <abentley> adeuring: See test_store.py for some examples.
[14:51]  * adeuring is looking
[14:55] <gary_poster> bcsaller, when you are here, could you take bug 1195354?  made card in miscellaneous
[14:55] <_mup_> Bug #1195354: Export exports relations incorrectly <juju-gui:Triaged by bcsaller> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1195354>
[14:55] <gary_poster> teknico, is "Broken tests for pyJuju sandbox" landed yet
[14:56] <teknico> gary_poster: it is, just yet
[14:56] <teknico> moved the card
[14:56] <adeuring> abentley: got it. I misunderstood the parameter "new"
[14:57] <bcsaller> gary_poster: kapil's email said  relations:
[14:57] <bcsaller>         - [blog, [db, memcached]]
[14:58] <bcsaller> one line change either way I think
[14:58] <abentley> adeuring: The changes you've made to the tests in 1192544-dont-hide-charms-with-processing-errors look wrong to me.  You should be testing that charms with errors are not hidden, not changing them to refer to store errors.  I believe the store error stuff already has tests.
[14:58] <gary_poster> bcsaller, xchat might have eaten what you said, I am afraid, but I think you are saying that this will be easy :-) .  Maybe also that you need to clarify something with Kapil?
[14:59] <bcsaller> both those things. My orig email suggested what the bug says but he offered back that its a list rather than ':' delimited
[14:59] <adeuring> abentley: OK, having tests that charms with errors are shown make seinse. But I could not find tests for the store_error case. Maybe I missed them though...
[14:59] <bcsaller> I can do either though, like I said, one line change :)
[15:02] <abentley> adeuring: in search.py: test_api_search_charm_with_store_error, test_search_charm_with_store_error.  In models.py, test_find_charms_default
[15:03] <gary_poster> hey hazmat, could you connect with bcsaller on list vs bug above?
[15:03] <adeuring> abentley: ok, so I'll just change the originals tests that charms with processing errors are not hidden.
[15:03] <abentley> adeuring: +1
[15:04] <bac> gary_poster: canonicaladmin for you
[15:04] <abentley> adeuring: r=me on 1192559-forgotten-jenkins-results
[15:04] <adeuring> abentley: thanks
[15:05] <gary_poster> sinzui, am I right that manage.jujucharms.com will integrate with SSO?
[15:05] <rick_h> gary_poster: it does already. The login function should work for anything in ~charmers
[15:05] <gary_poster> sinzui, and are there any others on the charm side of the world that you know of?
[15:06] <gary_poster> rick_h, when I click on login, I get a 503 Service Unavailable
[15:06] <gary_poster> No server is available to handle this request.
[15:06] <rick_h> gary_poster: hmmm wfm
[15:06] <gary_poster> rick_h, ok worked that time
[15:06] <rick_h> gary_poster: looks like new SSO layout/etc
[15:06] <gary_poster> yeah
[15:06] <sinzui> gary_poster, I am logged in
[15:07] <gary_poster> bac, accepted :-)
[15:07] <bac> gary_poster: oh, and another.  my sick day from a while bak
[15:07] <bac> back
[15:07] <sinzui> gary_poster, I just logged in
[15:08] <sinzui> gary_poster, I think the bug here is that we did not test what someone who has not role to login sees
[15:08] <gary_poster> sinzui, ack works for me now as I said.  could you please add manage.jujucharms.com to bug 1184961
[15:08] <gary_poster> so it gets an icon
[15:08] <gary_poster> doe SSO
[15:08] <gary_poster> for
[15:08] <sinzui> gary_poster, ~charmers and the m.jc.com developers can loggin
[15:09] <sinzui> gary_poster, logging in lets you do charm QA.
[15:09] <gary_poster> sinzui, ack cool thanks.  my main point is that icon bug.  could you add yourself to the bug?
[15:09] <gary_poster> I mean, mj.c
[15:10] <luca> rick_h: free to talk?
[15:10] <rick_h> luca: sure thing
[15:10] <rick_h> luca: taking over guichat
[15:11] <sinzui> gary_poster, yellow/ui group appear to be the only staff that are NOT in https://launchpad.net/~juju-jitsu/+members
[15:11] <gary_poster> sinzui, lol
[15:12] <gary_poster> sinzui, you saw the icon bug request, right? :-D
[15:12] <sinzui> gary_poster, I think your people would be helped by membership...and I will look into what happens when you are not permitted to sign in
[15:12] <hazmat> bcsaller, re emai. those are separate services..         - [blog, [db, memcached]]    is two relations in one line.. no qualifiers.. qualifiers are done as 'service:rel_name'
[15:12] <sinzui> gary_poster, No I didn't see it
[15:12] <sinzui> number?
[15:12] <bcsaller> hazmat: ah, must have misunderstood, thanks
[15:12] <gary_poster> sinzui, bug 1184961
[15:13] <sinzui> thank you. I will look into this.
[15:14] <gary_poster> thanks sinzui
[15:15] <sinzui> ha ha, the deploy was so fast it happened as I was testing login/logout
[15:16] <sinzui> abentley, your login/logout link staste bug still exists and somewhat confusing when a deploy happens
[15:16] <adeuring> abentley: i updated the branch
[15:17] <abentley> adeuring: r=me then.
[15:17] <adeuring> abentley: thanks
[15:23] <abentley> adeuring: I had already approved it, conditional on fixing the tests.
[15:25] <abentley> sinzui: That's weird.  I couldn't reproduce it.
[15:26] <sinzui> abentley, It happened during the rollout. It was fast. I cannot make it happen now
[15:27] <abentley> sinzui: Can we do a mid-imp review of https://code.launchpad.net/~abentley/charmworld/config-storage/+merge/171801 ?
[15:27] <sinzui> oh, and it just did... abentley. I just logged out. I had to force reload to see login again
[15:27]  * sinzui reads
[15:28] <teknico> gary_poster: jenkins failed but it seems unrelated to my branch, can we retry?
[15:29] <gary_poster> teknico I will retry if you look at video and see if you learn anything, and maybe doc in fole. :-)
[15:29] <gary_poster> file
[15:30] <teknico> gary_poster: oh, the video, I keep forgetting that. what do you mean by "doc in file"?
[15:33] <teknico> I guess "document in a file anything I learn"
[15:36] <gary_poster> teknico, I was thinking like your FIXMEs
[15:36] <gary_poster> Makyo, coming to meeting sorry
[15:41] <hatch> rick_h: got a minute for a chat?
[15:44] <rick_h> hatch: rgr
[15:44] <hatch> in guichat
[15:45] <rick_h> hatch: trying
[15:50] <Makyo> jujugui call in 10 kanban now
[15:56] <abentley> sinzui: how's that review going?
[15:58] <sinzui> abentley, In the last in your branch (# This is not acceptable to Elasticsearch, because config is a list.) you demonstrate that 'e' was not found. I think it was deleted by the exception block. Should it be? If the config options is already in the right format, I would have indexed it after a no-op
[15:59] <sinzui> Oh
[15:59] <sinzui> it was options that was a list
[15:59] <sinzui> abentley, we have configs that that a list?
[15:59] <sinzui> do we also have configs that are a string?
[15:59] <frankban> hatch: do you have a minute for a chat after the call?
[16:00] <jcsackett> sinzui: can i grab you to chat right after the juju gui standup? probably 15 min?
[16:00] <sinzui> jcsackett, yes
[16:00] <jcsackett> cool, thanks.
[16:02] <teknico> gary_poster: the underlying problem with the Jenkins failure is a timeout with "Charm API server did not respond", so maybe a network hiccup
[16:03] <sinzui> abentley, I think my questions are moot. We don't support config being anything other than a dict with a single item of 'options': {}. Anything else is ignored now. your branch continues to ignore it, but we also get an exception in ingest to document the charm is bad
[16:03] <gary_poster> teknico, ah ok.  I think they had a deployment
[16:03] <gary_poster> jujugui sorry got lost in irc and mail.  coming
[16:03] <abentley> sinzui: I forget what the precise mapping issue I ran into yesterday was.  But we had something that is supposed to be a map in our format, and instead it was a list.
[16:04] <abentley> sinzui: This originally just aborted the migration, which is unacceptable.  So I handled it by swallowing the exception.
[16:05] <abentley> sinzui: But since this is a migration, any existing document would be in the old format.  So we should not retain it.  We should delete it.
[16:05] <sinzui> abentley, understood and agreed. We let users craft the yaml by hand. I suppose proof should/does callout this issue
[16:07] <abentley> sinzui: Right.
[16:08] <sinzui> abentley, the migration script does a print. Shouldn't it be a log because for webops to investigate.
[16:08] <sinzui> or maybe you expect webops to check the juju-log
[16:09] <abentley> sinzui: I don't think that migrate has logging enabled.  I should check that.
[16:09] <abentley> sinzui: yeah, no references to 'log' at all.
[16:10] <sinzui> abentley, I think all stdout is captured by the juju-log. I think I saw the issue in the log when we had migration 007 bow up
[16:10] <sinzui> blow up
[16:10] <abentley> sinzui: Right.  I meant that I don't think the migrate script has python logging enabled.
[16:11] <sinzui> okay. I follow. That is a nice to have. I think your branch is in a good state. and +1 for documenting what a DISTRO_CHARM_DATA looks like
[16:12]  * sinzui thinks bzr_branch leaked through, but is nice ti see as an addition
[16:12] <abentley> sinzui: Cool.  Yes, DISTRO_CHARM_DATA allows me to justify the changes to the old JSON API.
[16:13] <abentley> sinzui: Okay, can we talk about how we would re-implement migration?
[16:14] <sinzui> yeah
[16:20] <hatch> frankban: i'll be right back then we can chat
[16:20] <frankban> hatch: thanks
[16:20] <bac> thanks hatch.  i had not merged from trunk and didn't have ghost-inspector yet
[16:20] <bac> to look at event handling
[16:20] <jcsackett> sinzui: want to join me in tinyurl.com/guichat?
[16:21] <sinzui> jcsackett, in a few  minutes, I am in another hangout
[16:21] <jcsackett> ok.
[16:23] <hatch> bac: you'll also want to create your own object similar to the one on line 126 of ghost-inspector.js and then include it into the controller
[16:24] <hatch> you do that by adding it to the array on views/service.js:1176
[16:24] <hatch> I can outline in more detail if needed
[16:24] <hatch> frankban: guichat?
[16:24] <frankban> hatch: sure
[16:25] <jcsackett> sinzui: when you're free ping me and i'll send an invite; guichat was needed. :-)
[16:26] <bac> hatch: i'm working on the service inspector so i think your point about adding to the array is not right
[16:26] <bac>  s/right/required
[16:37] <hatch> bcsaller: are you around?
[16:37] <hatch> can you join guichat with frankban and I
[16:37] <bcsaller> yes
[16:39] <jcsackett> sinzui: i've got to run out. i'll ping you when i'm back, see if you're free then.
[16:39] <sinzui> okay. sorry jcsackett
[16:50] <rick_h> sinzui: ping, got a sec to chat?
[16:56] <rick_h> sinzui: jcsackett can I get reviews on this short branch please? https://codereview.appspot.com/10691043/
[17:02] <bcsaller> hatch: that did fix it :-/
[17:04] <frankban> bcsaller: how to add that formatting function for each value in constraints? I'd like to use that to convert undefined to an empty string
[17:05] <bcsaller> frankban: did you try using constraints as the name, I'm not sure that would work but maybe I can make that happen
[17:06] <bcsaller> because you're right, we don't want to have to repeat that everywhere and we don't always know all the key names in the code anyway
[17:07] <benji> rick_h: I have a charm-token-related question for you when you have a minute
[17:08] <frankban> bcsaller: it does not work with just 'constraints', yeah it would be a nice functionality
[17:08] <abentley> sinzui: Notes on our chat: https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/document/d/1hYCZWzTdtyv9IfZ1wdx82COrYSMwRRfeIRkVTfNMQvw/edit
[17:08] <bcsaller> frankban: ok, I'll look at hacking something up.
[17:09] <frankban> bcsaller: great
[17:12] <jcsackett> sinzui: i am back, are you free?
[17:15] <rick_h> benji: hey, sorry I missed your ping
[17:16] <rick_h> benji: what's up?
[17:17] <hatch> bcsaller: darn....oh well those things happen :)
[17:18] <rick_h> jcsackett: hatch can you guys peek at this short one please? https://codereview.appspot.com/10694043 fixes a bug that annoys hatch so I can earn brownie points to disagree with something else later on :P
[17:18] <bcsaller> hatch: adding support for hierarchical  bindings to deal with nested key paths. So methods on 'constraints' will be used for 'constraints.foo' if that doesn't define the method in question.
[17:19] <benji> rick_h: I want to talk about svg icons and .small .medium and .large
[17:19] <benji> guichat?
[17:19] <rick_h> benji: sure thing
[17:31] <hatch> bcsaller: I'm not sure what you're saying
[17:31] <bcsaller> hatch: I can explain it in chat or show you in a bit in code
[17:32] <hatch> ok ummm i'll make a hangout
[17:32] <hatch> calling
[17:32] <hatch> not sure if I picked the right account :)
[17:36] <gary_poster> rick_h, LGTM
[17:38] <rick_h> gary_poster: ty much
[17:40] <rick_h> jcsackett: thanks as well. You caught me trying ot make sure each test failed/passed lol
[17:41] <rick_h> I need to do better at that
[17:52] <hatch> oh man there is a lot of drama around X and MIR
[17:52] <rick_h> hatch: welcome to canonical
[17:52] <hatch> why are people so resistant to change haha
[17:53] <jcastro> ok fellas
[17:53] <hatch> "RAWR don't event attempt improve my linux RAWR"
[17:53] <jcastro> so the drag and drop is pretty much awesome
[17:53] <hatch> (thats'a how I read these comment threads)
[17:54] <rick_h> jcastro: benji is working on some browser tweaks and such to it now
[17:54] <jcastro> nod
[17:54] <sinzui> hatch. All developers believe it is fine for themselves to introduce change, but distrust anyone else proposing a change that might topple their changes
[17:54] <hatch> jcastro: yes that is awesome :)
[17:54] <rick_h> jcastro: so send beer his way and hold off if something's not quite right yet
[17:54] <jcastro> I was like "ok if this doesn't land it's no big deal"
[17:54] <jcastro> now after using it it's like, why would I ever click the add button ever?
[17:54] <hatch> sinzui: lol
[17:54] <hatch> these developers need to work on a webapp haha
[17:55] <sinzui> hatch, indeed.
[17:57] <rick_h> howdy sinzui can you peek at https://codereview.appspot.com/10691043/ real quick and I wanted to see if you had time to chat on priority/next
[17:57]  * sinzui looks
[17:57] <sinzui> I do have chat time. I am all talk and no action
[17:57] <rick_h> woot
[17:58] <sinzui> 17px? are you mad. Why choose a prime number of a dimension (other than 2)
[17:58] <rick_h> it's what the ratio worked out to be going off the other images. 16.8px actually
[17:59] <rick_h> .35 * charm icon size ish
[17:59] <sinzui> 17 px is a poor input when scaling images designed for 64/128/256
[17:59]  * sinzui looks for crack pipes
[17:59] <rick_h> .35 * 48px
[17:59] <rick_h> the large one is 57px :P
[18:00] <rick_h> and that came from UX
[18:02] <benji> rick_h: it seems that after('render') is indeed called after render() is called, but not after it is really, really rendered by the browser.
[18:02] <bac> "17px? are you mad"  ha!
[18:02] <rick_h> benji: oh shoot me
[18:02] <benji> however, if instead of after('render', myFunc) I use setTimeout(myFunc, 1000) it works
[18:02] <benji> :/
[18:03] <sinzui> rick_h, LGTM.
[18:04] <sinzui> rick_h, my daughter only sets the volume of the TV to increments of 5. She sites a study that 57% of the population are bothered by displays that accept odd numbers. I now set the TV to prime numbers only.  I get to add a setTimeout to the code base
[18:09]  * benji greps
[18:09] <rick_h> benji: no no no
[18:09] <benji> darn! I'm not the first one
[18:09] <benji> :P
[18:09]  * hatch puts my pimp hand away
[18:09] <hatch> actually that's how I'd write it too
[18:09] <hatch> :)
[18:10] <hatch> well not exactly
[18:10] <hatch> but close haha
[18:10] <rick_h> hatch: I think what we can do is change the event to after(renderedChange)
[18:10] <hatch> I don't know what the problem is so I can't say what to do :)
[18:10] <rick_h> benji: http://yuilibrary.com/yui/docs/api/files/widget_js_Widget.js.html#l583 is after the actual rendering, the ATTR for RENDERED ('rendered') is set to TRUE
[18:11] <rick_h> benji: so we can add an event watch for that, since we KNOW it's after the REAL rendering.
[18:11] <rick_h> benji: and then do your work
[18:11] <benji> ooh, I like it
[18:11] <benji> that'll be  this.on('renderedChanged', myFunc), right?
[18:11] <rick_h> benji: so to watch for ATTR changes you'll have to use the event syntax renderedChange I believe
[18:11]  * rick_h goes to dbl check attr event watch syntax
[18:12]  * benji wonders where those docs are.
[18:12] <hatch> use after
[18:12] <benji> yep, after would be better
[18:12] <benji> well, I guess it doesn't matter in this case, but generally "after" is what I want for attribute changes
[18:12] <rick_h> benji: yea, so per http://yuilibrary.com/yui/docs/attribute/#events looks right
[18:12] <sinzui> bac, do you have a few minutes to review these my text changes to the juju-gui charm? https://codereview.appspot.com/10698043/
[18:13] <rick_h> sinzui: ok, have tmie to chat now, sorry. benji is distracting me :P
[18:13] <benji> :)
[18:13] <bac> sinzui: y
[18:13] <rick_h> sinzui: invite on the way
[18:14] <hatch> benji: 'on' will allow you to prevent the attribute change value, 'after' you can be sure that it hasn't been prevented by anything else
[18:14] <hatch> mind if I ask what the issue is?
[18:14] <benji> ah, that's a good point
[18:14] <bac> sinzui: in HACKING you are telling them to get the released version of the charm to start work, not the devel branch.
[18:14] <benji> hatch: this doesn't seem to work for me:
[18:14] <benji> this.addEvent(this.after('renderedChanged', Y.bind(this._addDraggability, this, container)))
[18:15] <bac> ~juju-gui-charmers is release, ~juju-gui is devel, sinzui
[18:15] <hatch> Change
[18:15] <hatch> no d
[18:15] <benji> I need to inspect some element dimentions after they are rendered
[18:15] <benji> ah!
[18:15] <hatch> benji: this.after('render', function() {}) doesn't work?
[18:16] <hatch> that's kind of the purpose of the after render :)
[18:16] <hatch> event*
[18:16] <benji> hatch: nope because that event is (apparently) fired after all the render() methods are called, not when the nodes have actually been rendered by the browser
[18:17] <sinzui> bac, I think I am asking them to hack on the dev version
[18:18] <bac> sinzui: line 22 of HACKING refers to lp:~juju-gui-charmers
[18:18] <sinzui> bac: I think that is wrong then
[18:18] <bac> yeah, i think so
[18:18] <hatch> benji: I don't think so, reading the code here
[18:18] <hatch> are you sure you used 'after' and not 'on'
[18:19] <hatch> after fires /after/ the defaultFN is run
[18:19] <hatch> whic is aftter the elements are in the dom
[18:19] <benji> if I put a debugger call in the event handler I can't the elements on the screen
[18:19] <benji> and they have no computed style
[18:19] <benji> (which is what I really want)
[18:20] <hatch> oh, I htink that's because the renderUI isn't attaching the element to the contentBox
[18:20] <hatch> can you see if the content/boundingbox is in the dom?
[18:21]  * benji looks
[18:21] <hatch> sorry for the q's I just want to know where the real issue lies
[18:21] <hatch> so, this.after('render', function() { debugger; });
[18:22] <hatch> then there should be a yui3-charmtoken element in the dom
[18:22] <benji> basically (there is more in there, than just the debugger call
[18:22] <benji> here is the renderUI funciton:
[18:22] <benji> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5805499/
[18:22] <hatch> yeah that isn't the proper place to put that
[18:22] <hatch> that's why it's not working
[18:22] <hatch> guichat real quick?
[18:23] <benji> hatch: sure
[18:23] <hatch> cool
[18:23] <rick_h> benji: hatch guichat? I can tell you right where this is
[18:23] <hatch> yup
[18:23]  * rick_h just went through the widget source
[18:23] <sinzui> bac, I propose reverting my changes to HACKING.md. I think it is fine as it is.
[18:24] <bac> sinzui: yep
[18:36] <hatch> great chat guys :)
[18:36] <rick_h> man, that is some crazy stuff
[18:58] <sinzui> bac, sorry about the deplay. I reverted the HACKING.md changes: https://codereview.appspot.com/10698043
[19:48] <hatch> bcsaller: reviewing
[19:55] <hatch> bcsaller: so am I to understand that by default it will always apply the child binding? and then if no child binding is applied then it'll look for a parent one?
[19:55] <hatch> the code reads like it only applys the parent binding
[19:55] <hatch> so curious as to where the child binding is assigned
[19:58] <bcsaller> hatch: on call, one sec
[19:59] <hatch> np I put the comment in the review
[20:00] <bac> hatch, when you have a moment would you grab my branch and see if i've done anything untoward wrt events?  lp:~bac/juju-gui/inspector-settings
[20:00] <hatch> sure thing
[20:00] <hatch> checking out
[20:02] <hatch> now that i Know how to do diffs in bzr this is a lot easier haha
[20:04] <hatch> bac: don't use ID's - then we won't be able to have multiple inspectors
[20:06] <bac> hatch: do you even know about 'bzr diff -c'?
[20:07] <bac> that one eluded me for way too long
[20:07] <hatch> nope
[20:07] <hatch> I use bzr diff --old ../trunk --new branch-name | subl (to pipe to sublime)
[20:07] <bac> 'bzr diff -c 500' shows you the diff of what was changed in rev 500
[20:07] <hatch> ohh that's cool but I usually commit to much for that and want to diff from trunk
[20:08] <bac> if you're using lightweight checkouts that can be shortened to: diff -r ancestor::parent
[20:08] <hatch> ohh cool!
[20:09] <hatch> I think I am using light weight checkouts because they check out pretty fast
[20:09] <hatch> bac: if you're going to change var dd = to var _ = you can just delete the var assignment
[20:09] <bac> hatch: but then the linter complains
[20:09] <hatch> oh I didn't know that
[20:09] <hatch> alright
[20:10] <bac> yeah "Don't use new for side effects"
[20:10] <bac> which is what we're doing
[20:10] <hatch> yeah I suppose that's....sort of valid heh
[20:10] <hatch> ok so your code looks good with the exception of the id's
[20:10] <bac> hatch: so you're suggesting replace the id with a one-off class?
[20:11] <hatch> yup
[20:11] <bac> cool
[20:11] <hatch> id clash bugs are damn near impossible to track down hah
[20:25] <benji> rick_h and hatch: the "set the dragImage when the drag starts" approach worked!
[20:25] <hatch> ^5!!!!!
[20:26] <hatch> thats the best approach yet! :)
[20:34] <benji> I'm a little surprised it worked because the drag is already happening at the point.  But I'm glad it worked.
[20:35] <benji> Now I just have to rework all the tests and figure out if I can fix chromium's crazy clipping of the category and generic icons.
[20:39] <hatch> I am surprised as well for the same reason, can't wait to see the code :)
[20:49] <hatch> cmd+w and cmd+s are way to close to eachother
[21:00] <bac> hatch, benji, bcsaller: I'm going to have to turn-over my critical card (OSCON: Build service settings inspector page) since I'll be out until Tuesday.  Would one of you put your face on it to at least ensure someone takes it?  I can do a call later if anyone volunteers.
[21:01] <hatch> bac: what do you anticipate the time to complete to be?
[21:01] <hatch> I 'might' be able to pick it up but I'm also out monday
[21:01] <benji> bac: I'm afraid I have to run, but if you don't get any other takers you can send me an email with the brain-dump and I'll adopt it.
[21:01] <bac> benji: thanks
[21:02] <bac> hatch: another day?  the config file control and the expose section are undone
[21:02] <hatch> ahh ok
[21:02] <hatch> well I can probably take it then
[21:02] <bac> hatch: feel free to pawn it off on benji or someone else.
[21:03] <hatch> pending no more odd issues with the current thing I'm working on
[21:03] <rick_h> benji: yay!!!!!!
[21:03] <bac> fat chance
[21:03] <hatch> lol
[21:03] <bac> ok, kthxlater
[21:05] <hatch> rick_h: HTC released the source for the One Google Edition yesterday and someone has already compiled it into a usable rom so you can get native android on a HTC One :)
[21:06] <rick_h> hatch: cool
[21:06] <hatch> that was the only thing holding me back from buying a new phone
[21:06] <hatch> soooo HTC One next week possibly? :)
[21:07] <hatch> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2341395
[21:07] <rick_h> Contract End Date: 12/15/2013
[21:07] <rick_h> I'll have to wait until the end of the year to switch my phone off verizon and go with a phone from google
[21:07] <hatch> I thought you had an N4?
[21:07] <hatch> a*
[21:07] <rick_h> hatch: no, galaxy nexus
[21:08] <hatch> ahh, well by then the new N4 will likely be out
[21:08] <hatch> but not on a contract so it'll probably cost you $400 or something
[21:08] <rick_h> yea, hoping to buy the phone straight out and move to a GSM carier
[21:10] <hatch> we used to be CDMA here but they recently switched to GSM and it's been awesome
[21:10] <rick_h> yea, all good.  Figure worst case I'll use that to help my phone with coverage on a smaller carrier
[21:10] <hatch> so might as well get a sub'd phone and root it
[21:10] <rick_h> right, why I have to switch carriers.
[21:10] <rick_h> I'm not sticking with verizon.
[21:12] <hatch> the plan I'm on http://www.sasktel.com/search/controller/_/R-Product_Services_Talk%26%2344%3B_Text_%26amp%3B_Data_Plans the Ultimate 65
[21:12] <hatch> pretty good plan imho
[21:18] <hatch> http://techcrunch.com/2013/06/27/immigration-reform-passes-senate-house-leadership-calls-bill-a-pipe-dream
[21:18] <hatch> so.... in the Senate can do all this work to draft and write a bill, which the house then ignores and makes their own?
[21:19] <hatch> is that the typical process?
[21:42] <hatch> man I friggen love this app
[21:42] <hatch> maybe I'm bias
[21:42] <hatch> but it's friggen cool
[21:49] <bcsaller> hatch: got a sec to chat?
[21:49] <hatch> oui oui
[21:49] <hatch> guichat?
[22:09] <hatch> bcsaller: email sent to peeps so you should get it soon
[22:10] <bcsaller> hatch: thanks
[22:23] <huwshimi> Morning
[22:24] <hatch> morning
[22:25] <hatch> meeting in 5?
[22:29] <hatch> jujugui weekly meeting aus edition now?
[22:29] <Makyo> Is that in guichat?
[22:29] <huwshimi> Yeah, I think so
[22:29] <hatch> sure thin
[22:30] <hatch> I'm live streaming a paul van dyk set in guichat
[22:30] <hatch> so join up :)
[22:30] <gary_poster> jujugui call now :-)
[22:32] <gary_poster> bcsaller, if you can join that would be cool
[23:23] <hatch> gary_poster: maybe some combination of the two always-on-sticky-headers with the ability to accordion if wanted :)
[23:24] <gary_poster> hatch feel free to follow on in thread :-)
[23:25] <hatch> who's Jamie? Haven't seen that name before :)
[23:26] <hatch> ahhh gooooo directory
[23:26] <hatch> it's Master Chief's real name
[23:34] <huwshimi> gary_poster: Ready


[11:38] <ckirk> hrmm that's no good
[11:38] <Mabus06> and I need to leave very soon. >.<
[11:38] <Mabus06> What's the fastest speed I should burn a bootable disc?
[11:38] <ckirk> lemme search i know there's a nice one from the command line
[11:38] <cafuego> Mabus06: Yes, 'cdrecord' will do that. (all GUI tools use cdrecord).
[11:38] <bimberi> Jsm: Places -> Connect to Server (a good way to get nautilus going as an FTP client)
[11:39] <Jsm> Bimberi i did that ;) and im about to coennect
[11:39] <cafuego> Mabus06: 'cdrecord dev=/dev/hdc speed=8 -v -eject -data foo.iso'
[11:39] <bimberi> Jsm: kk :)
[11:39] <Madpilot> Mabus06, that depends... but I've had good ISO burns at everything up to full speed for my burner (42x or something like that...)
[11:39] <Zarathoustra_> try : http://s2.bitefight.fr/c.php?uid=41690
[11:39] <Zarathoustra_> hi then
[11:39] <Zarathoustra_> :)
[11:40] <cafuego> Zarathoustra_: Are you spamming?
[11:40] <cafuego> We'll take that as a yes.
[11:40] <sandrinux> yes , he did
[11:40] <ckirk> anyone running xubuntu yet?
[11:41] <cafuego> ckirk: I run it on the slow old iMac.
[11:41] <ckirk> whatcha think?
[11:41] <ckirk> makes my 2.4ghz pc fast as lightning
[11:42] <kinetic> ckirk: i do and love it
[11:42] <cafuego> it works, but it's neither pretty nor inninently useable.
[11:42] <Plouj_> why am I getting disk read errors when booting a re-written RW disk? I have only re-recored twice on it.
[11:42] <Sewage> Hola~
[11:42] <sandrinux> 2.4 Ghz ???
[11:42] <ckirk> yep
[11:42] <Sewage> Anyone here currently using dapper, the fouth release?
[11:42] <sandrinux> Wow I think you don't need XFCE ...
[11:42] <kinetic> i use it on my 450mhz
[11:43] <ubuntu> fasdfadsg
[11:43] <kinetic> and my 350mhz laptop
[11:43] <Sewage> Anyway, I am having an interesting problem and I'm not sure if it's a bug, or me.
[11:43] <bimberi> Sewage: #ubuntu+1
[11:43] <ckirk> i don't but i like the feel of it.  and it keeps my resource consumption damn near null
[11:43] <ubuntu> Im running on the live cd and i must say its pretty stable
[11:43] <ckirk> i don't need it but i like it lots
[11:44] <kinetic> its nice if you don't need al the extra features
[11:44] <kinetic> i man you do most everythign on command line
[11:44] <ubuntu> myspace bitchez!!
[11:45] <ckirk> i try to do most everything on the command li ne
[11:45] <ckirk> i'me pretty new to linux anyway
[11:45] <kinetic> you don't need a intensive GUI for a terminal window
[11:45] <NickGarve1> I don't have a gui :)
[11:45] <ckirk> the command line interface is my highest priority right now
[11:46] <ckirk> so i think xu is probably the best choice for me
[11:46] <NickGarve1> I can't seem to get mplayer downloaded
[11:46] <kinetic> xubuntu is good for a server
[11:46] <NickGarve1> apt-get fails
[11:46] <NickGarve1> thats x-box right kinetic
[11:46] <Madpilot> NickGarve1, no, it's Ubutu + XFCE
[11:46] <kinetic> no its the xfce desktop manager for ubuntu
[11:47] <ckirk> NickGarve1: ubuntu with xfce4 instead of gnome or kde
[11:47] <mikebot> can someone help me with the ubuntu install process?
[11:47] <kinetic> like kubuntu is kde
[11:47] <NickGarve1> oh alright
[11:47] <NickGarve1> never heard of it
[11:47] <NickGarve1> to google!
[11:47] <ckirk> hehe
[11:47] <sandrinux> I think I'll try Xubuntu, couse I have a PIII800, and is a little slow with Gnome
[11:47] <kinetic> go for it
[11:47] <ckirk> try it, you'll love it
[11:47] <ckirk> check out the install instructions on the wiki
[11:48] <kinetic> sandrinux: apt-get install xubuntu-desktop
[11:48] <iBalo> mikebot: what specifically?
[11:48] <mikebot> ibalo: i don't know much about computers, so yeasterday they were asking me about ntfs or soemthing
[11:48] <kinetic> sandrinux: logout and change the session
[11:48] <sandrinux> kinetic: thats all ??
[11:48] <mikebot> iBalo: anyway, i want to partition my drive with windows on it
[11:48] <mikebot> iBalo: and add ubuntu to that
[11:48] <maxkelley> sandrinux: if you already have Ubuntu installed, just do apt-get install xfce4
[11:49] <riddlebox> can someone tell me what I need to install to get my nvidia card's svideo out working?
[11:49] <maxkelley> sandrinux: I also have a piii866 and xfce is awesome.
[11:49] <kinetic> sandrinux: yeah run that command and let ti finish the just logout and click session at login screen and clik the xfce one then login
[11:49] <iBalo> mikebot: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WindowsDualBootHowTo
[11:49] <Jsm> Now can anyone help with a slightly un ununtu realted problem, does any one know were the deafut apache install is yo
[11:49] <ompaul> !seen robotgeek
[11:49] <ubotu> robotgeek <i=venkat@ubuntu/member/robotgeek> was last seen on IRC in channel #kubuntu-offtopic, 5h 16m 23s ago, saying: 'morning kkathman'.
[11:49] <mikebot> iBalo: thanks
[11:49] <NickGarve1> is to?
[11:49] <mikebot> iBalo: so i will be able to use windows if need be, right?
[11:49] <NickGarve1> /etc/apache2
[11:50] <sandrinux> Downloading ... :)
[11:50] <Madpilot> !tell riddlebox about nvidia
[11:50] <NickGarve1> /var/www is where it pulls the web pages from
[11:50] <iBalo> mikebot: you'll get a start-menu where you can choose, which OS to boot
[11:50] <mikebot> iBalo: oh excellent, thank you
[11:51] <mikebot> iBalo: also, it says back up any important docs onto a cd-r or soemthing
[11:51] <kinetic> i just set me windows hardrive and and set it to slave then but a fresh one as master and popped in the install disk for ubuntu
[11:51] <mikebot> iBalo: i have another internal harddrive, will that be safe?
[11:51] <cedriczg> hello. I don't know if I can ask this here
[11:51] <cedriczg> I installed Matlab7
[11:51] <ckirk> ask it. then you'll know
[11:51] <Q_Continuum> Ng, you around currently?  Your listed steps didn't work - CTRL-ALT-BACKSPACE and it just sat there with a blinking cursor, I had to kill the process, and restore the default original config.
[11:53] <NickGarve1> I want to convert wma files to wavs or mp3s, but from what I read I need mplayer, but the problem is, mplayer will not apt-get because it refers to an out of date library, how could I avoid this?
[11:53] <cedriczg> and when I madee the launcher for matlab it doesn't work properly
[11:53] <iBalo> mikebot: it's safe unless you don't manage to tell the installer to format it... if you have 2 harddrives there are clever ways of using them in parallel to increase speed in linux... but that's advanced stuff
[11:53] <sandrinux> I LOVE UBUNTU !!!
[11:53] <cedriczg> It only works if I ask it to run in a terminal
[11:53] <Mabus06> exit
[11:54] <kinetic> sandrinux: faster?
[11:54] <Seyekoh> Madpilot: do you have /etc/libao.conf ?
[11:54] <cedriczg> does anyone knows why?
[11:54] <sandrinux> Faster, very faster
[11:54] <rupan3> starts up like a shot out of a cannon doesn't it, sandrinux :)
[11:54] <kinetic> i like the mouse
[11:55] <rupan3> totally
[11:55] <maxkelley> sandrinux: it really is.. sexy :)
[11:55] <kinetic> and it has lots of themes
[11:55] <maxkelley> tons.
[11:55] <Frebrd> anyone know how to enable oss emulation?
[11:55] <sandrinux> My PIII 800 seem a 3Ghz
[11:55] <maxkelley> you can also use the gtk themes on art.gnome.org
[11:55] <maxkelley> hehe, sandrinxu
[11:55] <maxkelley> er...
[11:55] <maxkelley> sandrinux
[11:55] <cedriczg> so noone can help me?
[11:56] <jms830> hello
[11:56] <maxkelley> HIEZ!
[11:56] <rupan3> what's the problem again, cedriczg ?
[11:56] <maxkelley> cedriczg: what is your problem to be? :)
[11:56] <rupan3> oh
[11:56] <rupan3> try reading the documentation
[11:56] <cedriczg> it a little problem
[11:56] <cedriczg> making a link for matlab
[11:56] <rupan3> head over to /usr/share/docs and look for matlab
[11:56] <cedriczg> in desktop
[11:56] <FlannelKing> Anyone know of a console instant messenger? (for AIM/Yahoo/Jabber/whatever/etc)
[11:57] <jms830> I have been trying to set up hotkeys for Xmms using xbindkeys. I entered xbindkeys-config and added my hotkeys, and they work except that it opens a new instance of xmms if i opened the original instance from within nautilus by clicking an mp3
[11:57] <rupan3> raed the command set
[11:57] <rupan3> FlannelKing: try gaim
[11:57] <jms830> anyone know how to fix this?
[11:57] <cedriczg> I have to make it to run frfom terminal
[11:57] <FlannelKing> rupan3: gaim doesn't have a console version, does it?
[11:57] <trappist> FlannelKing: I use bitlbee.  it's an irc server that connects to im servers and you connect to it with an irc client.
[11:57] <cedriczg> but it doesn't use terminal!
[11:57] <maxkelley> cedriczg: ln?
[11:57] <rupan3> FlannelKing: no but if you search synaptic there are packages that do
[11:57] <cedriczg> what?
[11:57] <sandrinux> To be honest, I Love Ubuntu because I have the ADSL . One year ago with a 56Kb/s it was different... :-\
[11:58] <rupan3> well i'll bet
[11:58] <maxkelley> cedriczg: ln -s <target> <link name>
[11:58] <rupan3> 56k will make you hate life in general
[11:58] <maxkelley> hehe, rupan
[11:58] <cedriczg> I have to put that as command?
[11:58] <maxkelley> yes
[11:58] <maxkelley> so, if you were making..
[11:58] <rupan3> lol
[11:59] <Tallia1Kubuntu> andrea@taglia:~/classes/FPA147/sounds/italy-scrape$ ls -s /usr/lib/libGLcore.so.1
[11:59] <Tallia1Kubuntu> 0 /usr/lib/libGLcore.so.1
[11:59] <maxkelley> erm, bueno..
[11:59] <rupan3> didn't want to open up another terminal i guess
[11:59] <iBalo> 56k will make your ISP love you for exorbitant bills :-)
[11:59] <rupan3> seriously.
[11:59] <cedriczg> sorry I got disconnected
[11:59] <flaxi> Opening up firefox in ubuntu and visiting yahoo.com, the news headline entries are two big, anyone knows what needs to be done to fix it? Using firefox in windows shows the headline entries just fine, each on on a seperate line
[11:59] <cedriczg> can you repeat me the answer?
[11:59] <maxkelley> cedriczg: if you were making a link to gaim, for example... do ln -s /usr/bin/gaim /home/whoever/gaim


 ubuntu can't resolve ipv6 addresses correctly, you have to resolve them yourself
[04:10] <bazhang> math is hard
[22:42] <PerfM> hi babes