[04:26] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: Do you have patch pilot duties this week? If so, what day?
[04:47] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, thursday
[04:48] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: Ok. Do you mind at all if we swap? I have to duck out for most of Friday, and am not sure if I'll get around to doing my shift/have enough time for my shift.
[04:48] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, sure
[04:48] <TheMuso> Thanks.
[04:48] <TheMuso> I'll contact Daniel about the swap/updating calendars etc.
[04:57] <micahg> TheMuso: in the past, he's told me to just update it myself
[04:57] <micahg> robert_ancell: I really like that lightdm restarts now when X falls out from under it
[04:57] <TheMuso> micahg: Um right, if I knew where it lived, I would *attempt* to, but google calendar + web and screen reader == fail.
[04:57] <robert_ancell> micahg, it is a bit nicer during failures!
[04:58] <micahg> now if I could just get X to stop disappearing :)
[04:58] <micahg> and I noticed the guest account as well
[07:34] <chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
[07:54] <didrocks> good morning
[07:55] <TheMuso> Morning didrocks.
[07:55] <didrocks> hey TheMuso, how was your flight?
[07:55] <TheMuso> didrocks: Long, but uneventful, still feeling somewhat jetlagged.
[07:56] <didrocks> yeah, will surely take some days :)
[08:52] <didrocks> seif: hey, when you get some time, can we talk about zg and first system launch? (initial indexing of existing files)
[08:53] <seif> didrocks, yes please
[08:53] <seif> didrocks, can u join us on #zeitgeist for that
[08:53] <seif> we have more ppl here
[08:53] <didrocks> seif: sure
[09:01] <fta2> Title: gnome-settings-daemon assert failure: gnome-settings-daemon: ../../src/xcb_io.c:515: _XReply: Assertion `!dpy->xcb->reply_data' failed.
[09:03] <fta2> hm, there's already bug 804617 for that
[09:03] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 804617 in gnome-settings-daemon "gnome-settings-daemon assert failure: gnome-settings-daemon: ../../src/xcb_io.c:515: _XReply: La declaración `!dpy->xcb->reply_data' no se cumple." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/804617
[09:03] <jibel> pitti, good morning, could you look at bug 781076 ? it regularly breaks upgrades from N to O.
[09:03] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 781076 in doc-base "package doc-base 0.9.5ubuntu2 failed to install/upgrade: Byte order is not compatible at ../../lib/Storable.pm" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/781076
[09:10] <seb128> hey
[09:14] <didrocks> salut seb128
[09:14] <seb128> lut didrocks
[09:15] <didrocks> bien rentré?
[09:17] <jibel> didrocks, is there a way to temporarily disable the new modal dialogs in unity in order to compare with the standard behavior of the dialog ?
[09:17] <didrocks> jibel: you have to manually edit the light themes, smspillaz told me it was 2 properties to change
[09:18] <seb128> didrocks, oui, et toi ?
[09:18] <didrocks> jibel: let me checkout the recent changes
[09:18] <didrocks> seb128: ça va ;)
[09:22] <seb128> jibel, hey, bien rentré ? back on assigning us bugs? :-p
[09:22] <didrocks> jibel: apply the reverse diff (http://paste.ubuntu.com/637817/) on /usr/share/themes/Ambiance/metacity-1/metacity-theme-1.xml
[09:27] <jibel> seb128, oui bien rentré, à part les trains bondé par tous ces gens qui partent en vacances.
[09:28] <jibel> didrocks, oh man, so easy, I'll switch to a gnome session then.
[09:28] <didrocks> jibel: heh :)
[09:30] <didrocks> reboot, brb
[09:32] <chrisccoulson> back in a comfortable chair again this morning :-)
[09:34] <chrisccoulson> good morning seb128
[09:34] <chrisccoulson> how are you?
[09:35] <seb128> hey chrisccoulson, I'm good thanks
[09:35] <seb128> chrisccoulson, what about you?
[09:35] <seb128> had a nice flight back and w.e?
[09:35] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, not too bad thanks. although, my 40 minute flight back to birmingham got delayed by 1 hour, which was really annoying ;)
[09:36] <seb128> ;-)
[09:36] <chrisccoulson> i had to play another hour of angry birds at the airport
[09:36] <seb128> well at least you didn't have to wait 4 hours in amsterdam :p
[09:36] <chrisccoulson> yeah, that would be unfortunate ;)
[09:36] <chrisccoulson> i'm starting to think it would have been quicker for me to catch the ferry
[09:37] <seb128> I use the lounge card but they only had the free airport wifi limited to 1 hour
[09:46] <didrocks> seb128: btw, sni-qt as been sourced NEWed by steve, if you can binNEWed, that would be awesome : )
[09:47] <seb128> didrocks, ok
[09:48] <seb128> didrocks, done
[09:48] <didrocks> seb128: excellent, the MIR is ready, just waiting for mterry now to seed it :)
[09:48] <didrocks> thanks
[09:48] <seb128> yw
[09:50] <seb128> RAOF, hey
[09:57] <njpatel> awesome, evolution upgrade on desktop broke the filtering across all my folders
[09:57] <njpatel> which means....thunderbird time!
[09:57]  * njpatel needed the slightest of excuse really
[09:58] <chrisccoulson> lol
[09:58] <seb128> yeah, I hate evo as well this week
[09:58] <seb128> the 3.0 to 3.1 update forgot all my ui settings
[09:58] <seb128> like the columns position, sorting etc
[09:58]  * didrocks will do the migration today as well
[09:58] <seb128> in all my boxes
[09:59] <seb128> the age of thunderbird is starting!
[09:59] <seb128> chrisccoulson, be ready to get bugs and complains coming your way ;-)
[09:59] <chrisccoulson> heh :-)
[09:59] <chrisccoulson> i should have taken some vacation this week....
[09:59] <njpatel> seb128, yep, that's what annoyed me....also I can't figure out a way to make all the folders behave like the one I configured, I really liked that feature in t-bird
[09:59]  * didrocks opens a bug "it doesn't look like evolution" :)
[09:59] <seb128> speaking of which you just won a bug that jibel assigned to the team
[10:00] <njpatel> like*
[10:00] <seb128> njpatel, right, have to do the same columns configuration in 25 boxes sucks
[10:00] <seb128> having
[10:01] <seb128> didrocks, bug #805036 seems to be one about the nvidia issue
[10:01] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 805036 in unity "Can not choose classic unity instead of unity-2d" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/805036
[10:01] <seb128> RAOF, just for the backlog nvidia binary drivers broke for people upgrading (including dx) to the new mesa it seems
[10:02] <seb128> RAOF, disabling and re-enabling nvidia in jockey "fixes" it though
[10:02] <didrocks> seb128: yeah, I'll retarget subcribe ubuntu-x to it as I don't know where the issue is from
[10:02] <seb128> so it might be a tseliot pitti issue
[10:05] <fta2> seb128, hi, found another weird new behavior of evo3, when viewing new emails, the selection moves from the main pane to the preview pane. is that a feature or a bug?
[10:06] <seb128> fta2, bug I would say
[10:06] <fta2> seb128, good, because it's annoying ;)
[10:06] <seb128> though I'm not upstream so who knows what reason they could have found to justify it ;-)
[10:06] <seb128> but seems a bug
[10:07] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: is there any email account setup upgrade path?
[10:08] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, what are you upgrading from?
[10:08] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: our previous default, evolution :)
[10:08] <chrisccoulson> ah :)
[10:08] <chrisccoulson> not sure about that. RAOF mentioned that at the rally as well
[10:08] <chrisccoulson> i wonder how hard it would be for me to make it import stuff from evo?
[10:09] <didrocks> that would be nice anyway, we tend to update user's settings
[10:11] <seb128> didrocks, well, when we migrate them, which we will not do with tb
[10:11] <seb128> but yeah, would be still nice to have the feature for those switching
[10:11] <didrocks> seb128: it was some kind of requirement for banshee AFAIK, so yeah, would be nice to have the same with th
[10:12] <seb128> not sure we migrated the config
[10:12] <seb128> we migrating the datas
[10:12] <seb128> migrated
[10:12] <seb128> i.e ratings, etc
[10:12] <seb128> I don't think we migrated i.e jamendo accounts configured
[10:12] <didrocks> config are playlist, where the music is, and such$
[10:12] <didrocks> from my point of view, for a music player :)
[10:13] <rodrigo_> morning
[10:13] <seb128> hey rodrigo_, how are you?
[10:13] <didrocks> hey rodrigo_
[10:13] <rodrigo_> hi seb128, didrocks
[10:13] <chrisccoulson> in this case, we would probably only really want to migrate account settings and filters from evolution (assuming that most people are running IMAP, then there's not much point in migrating mail too)
[10:13] <seb128> right
[10:14] <didrocks> agreed
[10:16] <seb128> nice advantage of using e-d-s you should have access to the contacts, etc
[10:25] <didrocks> reboot, brb
[10:28] <kiwinote> f
[10:28] <kiwinote> sorry, focus issue..
[10:29] <Sweetshark> oh btw: morning everyone.
[10:29] <seb128> hey Sweetshark
[10:30] <rodrigo_> hi Sweetshark
[10:32]  * Sweetshark just found the login to the trusty machine running this IRC session that I almost completely ignored over the last week.
[10:35] <ricotz> Sweetshark, hello :), are there going to be libreoffice 3.3.3 or 3.4.1 updates for lucid too?
[10:37] <Sweetshark> ricotz: 3.4.X for oneiric and 3.3.3 for natty has precedence. Why are you asking?
[10:38] <ricotz> Sweetshark, i am curious about the libreoffice ppa and i would be great to see an update for lucid there
[10:38] <ricotz> i saw the natty upload and hoped there are going to be more ;)
[10:39] <rodrigo_> just in case someone was planning to do it -> I'm starting to package gnome-online-accounts
[10:42] <Sweetshark> ricotz: well, a lucid release for 3.3.3 isnt that hard now that there is one for natty, but it is still not high priority. 3.4.0 is a bit different
[10:43] <seb128> rodrigo_, write it on the etherpad ;-)
[10:43] <rodrigo_> seb128, right :)
[10:44] <ricotz> Sweetshark, alright, looking forward to it then :)
[11:02] <didrocks> seb128: do you ship on purpose /usr/lib/libgtk-3.la ? (there was no gtk2 one)
[11:06] <seb128> didrocks, there is /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/libgtk-x11-2.0.la
[11:06] <seb128> ?
[11:07] <didrocks> ah, only gtk2 is ported to the multi-arch, I got puzzle by that
[11:07] <didrocks> seems like cassidy don't like it ;)
[11:07] <seb128> right
[11:07] <seb128> what? the .la?
[11:07] <seb128> why?
[11:07] <didrocks> cassidy: ^^
[11:08] <cassidy> seb128, I hate .la, they are a pain when using jhbuild as libs/apps tends to link on system lib rather than the jhbuild ones
[11:09] <seb128> cassidy, somebody should fix libtool ;-)
[11:09] <cassidy> isn't ubuntu supposed to get rid of .la files ?
[11:10] <seb128> it's not that easy
[11:10] <seb128> you need to rebuild all rdepends in order before dropping a .la
[11:10] <seb128> which for gtk would be "fun"
[11:10] <seb128> so I don't think those are going away any time soon
[11:15] <cassidy> :(
[11:16] <Laney> debian is doing it
[11:17] <seb128> Laney, doing what?
[11:18] <Laney> removing .la files
[11:18] <Laney> at least I've had some NMUs for that
[11:18] <Laney> :-)
[11:18] <seb128> Laney, right, but as said you need to rebuild all the rdepends in order when you do that
[11:18] <seb128> which is going to take a while for gtk
[11:19] <Laney> I understand. Just saying that it is being worked on
[11:19] <seb128> right
[11:21] <Laney> http://wiki.debian.org/ReleaseGoals/LAFileRemoval fwiw
[11:36] <fta2> kaboom, g-s-d crashed
[11:37] <jibel> fta, not a big challenge ;-)
[11:39] <ogra_> and i thought it was arm specific :)
[11:39] <seb128> stacktrace?
[11:39] <seb128> just assign the bug to rodrigo_ ;-)
[11:39]  * rodrigo_ hides
[11:39] <fta2> seb128, who?
[11:40] <seb128> fta2, the rodrigo part was a joke but please open a bug with a stacktrace
[11:40] <seb128> give the number here, we well deal with it
[11:40] <seb128> rodrigo_, no luck for you that GNOME is moving half of the services in g-s-d ;-)
[11:40] <rodrigo_> :)
[11:40] <fta2> oh, it's the same i got this morning: bug 804617
[11:40] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 804617 in gnome-settings-daemon "gnome-settings-daemon assert failure: gnome-settings-daemon: ../../src/xcb_io.c:515: _XReply: Assertion `!dpy->xcb->reply_data' failed." [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/804617
[11:41] <seb128> #6  0x06014e57 in ?? () from /usr/lib/gnome-settings-daemon-3.0/liba11y-keyboard.so
[11:44] <fta2> i can fully retrace it
[11:44] <seb128> let me check what happened to the retracers
[11:46] <didrocks> jibel: was there a bug for the datetime indicator content not being readable with the new theme?
[11:47] <jibel> didrocks, bug 804348
[11:47] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 804348 in light-themes "datetime indicator calendar difficult to read with Ambiance (light grey on white)" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/804348
[11:47] <didrocks> jibel: thanks! :)
[12:02] <didrocks> session restart, brb
[12:04]  * didrocks starts thunderbird
[12:09] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: once I enter my setup and that it retrieved my email provider config (imap/smtp), I find that weird that the label is entitled "create account" (I think user can think it's about creating a new account on the server)
[12:19] <fta2> seb128, #6  0x06014e57 in set_server_from_gsettings (manager=<value optimized out>) at gsd-a11y-keyboard-manager.c:346
[12:22] <seb128> didrocks, is that a french translation or the english string?
[12:22] <seb128> seems like it should be "set up account" or similar in english
[12:22] <seb128> fta2, thanks
[12:23] <fta2> seb128, the bug has been retraced by lp
[12:23] <seb128> great, I've restarted the retracers
[12:23] <seb128> seems that worked
[12:25] <didrocks> seb128: english string
[12:25] <didrocks> I have all th in english rightnow
[12:25] <seb128> ok
[12:26]  * desrt brings english strings to france
[12:28] <seb128> desrt, hey ;-)
[12:28] <desrt> hey :)
[12:28] <desrt> we're having a party in paris in a couple of days.  you should come :)
[12:29] <seb128> didrocks, did that started about at the same time desrt entered in France? we should consider sending him back to Canada to get our french back!
[12:29] <seb128> desrt, "we" being?
[12:29] <desrt> me and some ubuntu-fr folks
[12:29] <seb128> nice ;)
[12:29] <desrt> YoBoY, kinouchou, etc.
[12:30] <desrt> i guess not dbarth
[12:30] <seb128> you should go to rmll and have a party there ;-)
[12:30] <desrt> unfortunately i already have an overlapping trip planned to germany
[12:30] <desrt> east germany, i mean :)
[12:31] <seb128> ;-)
[12:33] <didrocks> seb128: agreed, no ubuntu font in th, english strings…
[12:34] <didrocks> that looks like suspicious :)
[12:43] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: also, I'm looking for two shortcuts: group by thread (seems I have to go to the menu) and mark as unread
[12:45] <chrisccoulson> hey didrocks. not sure if there is a shortcut for the first one, but the second one can be achieved by clicking on the small icon in the "Read" column of the folder pane
[12:47] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: I don't have a "Read" column by default is seems
[12:48] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: I see a small icon showing that it's not read in the subject column
[12:48] <seb128> rodrigo_, bug #804946 seems to be a gift from pedro to you ;-)
[12:48] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 804946 in gnome-settings-daemon "gnome-settings-daemon crashed with SIGSEGV in g_variant_unref()" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/804946
[12:48] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, i think it's the column on the right-hand side of the subject column
[12:48] <seb128> rodrigo_, g_settings_get_boolean (settings=0x0 seems wrong
[12:49] <chrisccoulson> i'm not sure if that's default though, as my columns are slightly different with the conversations extension
[12:49] <rodrigo_> seb128, ok
[12:49] <seb128> chrisccoulson, you are not even testing what you ship to users!
[12:50] <chrisccoulson> lol
[12:50] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: it's not the default indeed
[12:50] <didrocks> hum, I would like to keep the default though :)
[12:51] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, hmm, i just created a new profile and got that column by default ;)
[12:52] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: oh, the green one? it's confusing. What's the little lightning on the left of the subject title means though?
[12:52] <didrocks> seems that th is not keyboard addict friendly :)
[12:52] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, yeah, it's the little green icon
[12:53] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: and the other one?
[12:53] <didrocks> the little light for unread messages on the left of the message?
[12:53] <didrocks> is it some kind of "never read"?
[12:53] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, good question ;)
[12:55] <didrocks> :)
[12:55] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, ah. that icon is "new", rather than "unread"
[12:55] <chrisccoulson> (ie, it arrived in the last download)
[12:56] <didrocks> oh ok :)
[12:56] <chrisccoulson> seems fairly redundant though
[12:56] <didrocks> right
[12:56] <seb128> rodrigo_, sorry, bug #804896 seems to collect some duplicates as well and new since the update to 3.1
[12:56] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 804896 in gnome-settings-daemon "gnome-settings-daemon assert failure: gnome-settings-daemon: ../../src/xcb_io.c:140: dequeue_pending_request: Assertion `req == dpy->xcb->pending_requests' failed." [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/804896
[12:57] <chrisccoulson> or, to be more precise, it's "new, since the last time you viewed this mailbox"
[12:57] <seb128> rodrigo_, but I'm done for today ;-) I guess you can handle the g-s-d g-c-c tarballs and oneiric updates and look at those later
[12:57] <rodrigo_> seb128, ok, taking it also :-)
[12:57] <seb128> chrisccoulson, is there an icon for "new since I got my coffee" and "new since I went for dinner"? ;-)
[12:57] <chrisccoulson> lol
[12:58] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, the message indicator doesn't cope too well with me opening 2 instances of thunderbird
[12:58] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: the only confusing things I find right now is with the indicator, which seems to pick the 6 first folder with new content rather than selected one
[12:58] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: also, would be nice to use the ubuntu font for messages
[12:59] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, yeah, we could probably use that for plain text messages
[13:00] <seb128> didrocks, "selected one"?
[13:00] <seb128> didrocks, how do you select the folders to get in the indicator?
[13:00] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, as for the indicator - we limit the number of entries to 6 (as per the spec)
[13:00] <didrocks> seb128: I would say either take inbox, either have something like the folder subcription
[13:01] <seb128> the spec is not made for geeks ;-)
[13:01] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: I have a folder for oneiric-changes, I prefer to ensure I have the inbox there than being notified for every new upload :)
[13:01] <didrocks> the spec tells that you can limit to inbox, isn't it?
[13:01] <didrocks> inbox would be enough for me :)
[13:01] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, no, the spec says we should have one for every folder, limited to 6
[13:01] <njpatel> chrisccoulson, hey, there is a project to integrate thunderbird into eds right?
[13:02] <chrisccoulson> njpatel, m_conley_away is working on the contacts integration atm
[13:02] <seb128> chrisccoulson, not true
[13:02] <njpatel> chrisccoulson, and calendering?
[13:02] <seb128> "The selection of the “Notify new messages for Inbox only” setting should be mapped to whether the “When new mail arrives in” menu is set to “Inbox” or “any folder”. "
[13:02] <seb128> in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MessagingMenu/
[13:02] <seb128> chrisccoulson, ^
[13:03] <seb128> but yeah, it's not well presented in the spec
[13:03] <seb128> there is that for evo but not in the "How applications should integrate with the messaging menu" section
[13:03] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, that seems evo specific
[13:03] <seb128> worth checking with mpt
[13:03] <didrocks> why evo specific?
[13:04] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, that's in the bit specific to evolution
[13:04] <seb128> didrocks, because it's not in the "Recommended behavior for e-mail clients"
[13:04] <seb128> didrocks, it's just next to the evo preferences screenshot
[13:04] <chrisccoulson> "A mail program should provide one message source item for each mailbox that contains new messages concerning you"
[13:04] <chrisccoulson> in "Recommended behavior for e-mail clients"
[13:05] <seb128> chrisccoulson, didn't you say that "concerning you" implied you were in the To:
[13:05] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: right, I think that we need a definition about "each mailbox that contains new messages concerning you"
[13:05] <chrisccoulson> evolution doesn't do this at all, by default
[13:05] <njpatel> chrisccoulson, calendering? :) (sorry someone is asking me)
[13:05] <seb128> i.e mailing lists should be out?
[13:05] <chrisccoulson> seb128, right. we ignore messages that aren't addressed to you already
[13:05] <seb128> so -changes should be listed?
[13:05] <chrisccoulson> (well, we don't request attention for those, but we do add them to the indicator)
[13:05] <seb128> should "not" be
[13:05] <seb128> rather
[13:06] <chrisccoulson> i know how to fix this ;)
[13:06] <seb128> chrisccoulson, do you rank boxes with messages for you up in the list?
[13:06] <seb128> i.e do they show before the ones which don't?
[13:07] <seb128> that's like what didrocks want
[13:07] <seb128> likely
[13:07] <chrisccoulson> seb128, not yet. we currently add indicator entries until there are 6 of them, and then we queue them up
[13:07] <didrocks> yeah, because not seeing the inbox content because g-s-d apport retraces works, is bad :/
[13:07] <seb128> I guess doing that would solve the issue
[13:07] <chrisccoulson> the fix is to give a lower priority for those mailboxes where we don't request attention
[13:07] <chrisccoulson> yeah
[13:07] <pitti> hello
[13:08] <seb128> hey pitti, wies gets?
[13:08] <chrisccoulson> hi pitti, how are you feeling today?
[13:08] <seb128> wie
[13:08] <pitti> lucidfox: the SRU team doesn't (normally) do verification -- that should be done by bug reporters; but of course anyone can test the packages and give feedback
[13:08] <seb128> didrocks, chrisccoulson: ranking those where you got messages directed to you would fix the mailing list issue
[13:09] <pitti> seb128, didrocks, chrisccoulson: hey guys, made it back home in one piece?
[13:09] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah. that's pretty easy for me to do
[13:09] <chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, although my flight back got delayed by 1 hour. the delay was longer than my actual flight ;)
[13:09] <pitti> jibel: doc-base bug> I looked a it before, it's fairly dubious to me; I'll check the debian bug again
[13:09] <seb128> pitti, yes, no issue, just a 4 hours connection in amsterdam
[13:09] <seb128> pitti, how is your ubuflu going?
[13:10] <pitti> seb128: quite a bit better
[13:10] <pitti> worst was on Saturday
[13:10] <seb128> :-(
[13:10] <seb128> but good that you are getting better
[13:10] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, ok, so i can fix that anyway :)
[13:10] <pitti> yesterday we went climbing, and it seems the physical effort and sweating made it quite a bit better :)
[13:10] <didrocks> hey pitti, yeah, back with an uneventful flight! ;-)
[13:11] <seb128> pitti, btw I restarted the retracers, they had a lock file from friday with no error in the log
[13:11] <pitti> now I just came back home
[13:11] <pitti> seb128: thanks
[13:11] <seb128> pitti, just removing the lock was enough, dunno what happened
[13:11] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: ok, last question to bother you, about the font in default view? I tried to change in preferences -> display settings, but it doesn't impact email contents
[13:11] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, for html e-mail?
[13:11] <pitti> need to do some household stuff etc.; I have a swap day today, but want to catch up on things, too
[13:11] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: and I don't have the mandatory photos in the ldap, but that's a small issue :)
[13:12] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: no, it's a text only one
[13:12] <pitti> oh, why does dist-upgrade want to pull all the gtk2 indicators back in?
[13:12] <seb128> pitti, unity-2d
[13:12] <pitti> isn't that qt?
[13:12] <seb128> not the indicators
[13:12] <seb128> they reuse as much of 3d they can
[13:13] <seb128> they will share the 3d loader as well this cycle but that's short for a2
[13:13] <seb128> will be solved for a3
[13:16] <pitti> seb128: thanks for the heads-up
[13:16] <seb128> yw
[13:17] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, hmm, it worked here if i change the font for Monospace text to the right one
[13:18] <didrocks> pitti: basically this removal depends on the next unity release to share the required components (what Cimi is working on right now)
[13:18] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: weird, maybe need a restart, let me try
[13:19] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: right, after restarting, it's ok
[13:19]  * rodrigo_ -> lunch
[13:19] <chrisccoulson> i'm reluctant to change the default fonts in thunderbird though. if we set it to the ubuntu fonts, it will break if those aren't installed
[13:19] <seb128> this language selection on login discussion is weird
[13:20] <chrisccoulson> we should keep them set to the "monospace" alias, and the font system should do the job of selecting the desired font
[13:20] <seb128> those who support it insist it's useful on the login screen but still without doing a solid usecase for it
[13:20] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: why not recommending it? I think if it's not there, the fallback should be handled directly, isn't it?
[13:21] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: not having the right default font in one app is weird and not coherent
[13:22] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, how would it determine a fallback? this is what the monospace alias is for isn't it? (ie, the font system does the job of selecting the correct font)
[13:22] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: or monospace should point the default, right
[13:22] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, yeah, that's how it should work
[13:23] <cyphermox> good morning!
[13:23] <didrocks> hey cyphermox
[13:23] <cyphermox> hey didrocks
[13:25] <cyphermox> so; telepathy-salut is still failing, and the update that fixes the bugs is stuck in depwait (xmldiff isn't in main)
[13:25] <cyphermox> so unless someone disagrees, I'd path configure.ac to not require xmldiff and drop that build-depends (it doesn't appear to be used, and builds fine without)
[13:26] <seb128> hey cyphermox
[13:26] <seb128> seems fine to do if it's not needed
[13:26] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: also, it would be nice if the blue header in email thread can be orange
[13:26] <cyphermox> MIR didn't seem like as good an idea because it doesn't seem like xmldiff is hugely maintained
[13:26] <seb128> should be sent to debian and upstream as well
[13:26] <cyphermox> aye
[13:30] <didrocks> argh, I almost lost all my inbox thanks to thunderbird…
[13:34] <pitti> didrocks: thank goodness we don't ship that by default!
[13:34] <pitti> oh wait
[13:34] <didrocks> :)
[13:34]  * didrocks has a 10s tip to remove all the emails
[13:35] <didrocks> and so, after recovering with evolution the deleted emails, now, it marks random ones as unread :/
[13:35] <hyperair> woot.
[13:35] <didrocks> ok, got from 0 -> 28 unread -> 0 without touching anything
[13:56] <mpt> chrisccoulson, seb128: Which messages get notified in the messaging menu is up to the mail client (just like any other form of notification). Inbox only would be a good start. Attaching something to the folder properties would be one way of advancing from there.
[13:57] <mpt> Thunderbird (3, at least) only has notification for any new message, so I guess it wouldn't make sense to get much more complex than that before Thunderbird itself does.
[13:59] <chrisccoulson> mpt, hmmm, we can do a lot more than that with thunderbird :/
[13:59] <chrisccoulson> (and are, already)
[14:00] <mpt> chrisccoulson, ok. Has T5 upstream introduced more fine-grained notification for individual folders?
[14:01] <chrisccoulson> mpt - oh, not for notifications. but the information to make it fine-grained is there (and always has been). i'm using it already for the messaging indicator work
[14:01] <Sweetshark> pitti: how should something like http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=610817 be handled? _rene_ updated to the LO deps, so I assume we are hit by this on natty. Sync javahelper to natty too?
[14:01] <ubot2> Debian bug 610817 in javahelper "javahelper: jh_depends fails when a jar file is a relative symlink" [Normal,Fixed]
[14:01] <mpt> chrisccoulson, so which folders do you show? Any folders that have unread messages? Any that have "new" messages?
[14:03] <chrisccoulson> mpt - any which have a new message get shown (up to 6), but we currently don't request attention unless the folder has a new message which is either addressed directly to the recipient, is starred, or has a high-importance
[14:06] <mpt> chrisccoulson, nifty. My only concern is that it might be a bit mysterious if people can't see what it is that causes a message to show up there
[14:07] <mpt> chrisccoulson, one way to help that would be to mention it in a help page. Another would be to have an interface for configuring it.
[14:07] <didrocks> or if you have a lot of folders you are not interested to be notified with, and missing important one like inbox
[14:07] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, right, i already have a fix for your case though ;)
[14:07] <chrisccoulson> (we'll give priority in the menu to folders with interesting messages in them)
[14:07] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: like, always showing inbox whatever order of new are there?
[14:08] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, what if my inbox doesn't have anything interesting in it, and other folders do?
[14:09] <chrisccoulson> this is what i hated about the evo implementation. it just assumes that because i use a filter to move it to another folder, that i don't want to be notified about it
[14:09] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: well, I think inbox is the one where people are more focussed to? I'm not sure how you want to include the "relevant message ones"?
[14:10] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, we would use the same checks as we use for deciding if the message is interesting enough to request attention (ie, change the colour of the icon)
[14:10] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: so I would be notified for every blueprint I'm subscribed? (as I'm in the To:)
[14:11] <didrocks> or every bug I'm a subscriber?
[14:11] <seb128> didrocks, do you have over 6 boxes which get mails directed to you and not listed or launchpad?
[14:11] <didrocks> seb128: that's what I'm just checking and it seems the answer is yes
[14:11] <seb128> didrocks, fix your filtering? ;-)
[14:11] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, we might also filter out messages where "From != Sender", which would catch your blueprint case ;)
[14:12] <chrisccoulson> i've already thought about this ;)
[14:12] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: no, because for every blueprint your subscribe, you are in To:
[14:12] <didrocks> seb128: well, tool deciding from my workflow and forcing me to filter less? :/
[14:12] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, right, but we would filter it out because the From address is not the same as the Sender
[14:13] <chrisccoulson> i'm just currently trying to figure out if there are any other implications of doing that
[14:13] <seb128> didrocks, don't use the messaging menu if it doesn't work for you?
[14:13] <didrocks> seb128: it was working with evolution
[14:13] <seb128> didrocks, there is no solution to the "I filter emails in 25 boxes"
[14:13] <seb128> didrocks, "working", evolution only notify your about inbox messages which sucks
[14:13] <seb128> it's mostly useless
[14:13] <didrocks> well, for your filters :)
[14:14] <seb128> I filter server side
[14:14] <didrocks> same for me
[14:14] <seb128> so it's useless
[14:14] <didrocks> why?
[14:14] <seb128> like evo never notify my of emails in my work box
[14:14] <chrisccoulson> didrocks - i have a possible solution for the blueprints anyway. are there any other which are a concern? ;)
[14:14] <seb128> because it watches only inbox
[14:14] <didrocks> seb128: my work box is my inbox, it's the important pending stuff, the other are filtered
[14:15] <didrocks> so different workflow, which doesn't mean that any tool choose to enforce some
[14:15] <seb128> didrocks, well that might be true for you, my inbox is where all the things I don't wait for land and a spam box
[14:15] <seif> didrocks, question
[14:15] <seb128> didrocks, so I filter things I care about in other boxes
[14:15] <seif> didrocks, why is my touchpad not working
[14:15] <seif> and only the nipple thing
[14:15] <didrocks> seif: contrary for me, things are care are by subject, but if they are filtered, it's because they don't need immediate attention
[14:16] <didrocks> seif: better to check on #ubuntu-x with the xorg guys
[14:16] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: so, for instance, I received assigned bugmail in bugs/assignee/<team>
[14:16] <seb128> didrocks, well, I'm just saying the evo way is not better, it just work for different people
[14:16] <didrocks> seb128: I agree, I just told it was better *for me*
[14:16] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, the check which filters out the blueprint mail would also filter out bug mail too
[14:17] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: I don't understand, you want to filter that how? From != To -> notify?
[14:17] <seb128> the only way to solve it for everybody would be a checkbox by mailbox
[14:18] <seb128> to let you say "don't notify me about this box"
[14:18] <seb128> but we are down to corner cases, real world users don't have over 6 boxes
[14:18] <didrocks> seb128: was my first proposal about subcription some hours ago :)
[14:18] <seb128> not sure we should bother about corner cases
[14:18] <seb128> let's fix real issues first
[14:19] <seb128> (yeah it sucks because it means it work less fine for us)
[14:19] <seb128> chrisccoulson, what is the difference between sender and from in meaning?
[14:19] <seb128> chrisccoulson, would that happen in case somebody fwd you an email too?
[14:20] <chrisccoulson> seb128, "The person or agent submitting the message to the network, if other than shown by the From: header." (from RFC2076)
[14:20] <chrisccoulson> i'm still working out whether i can use it
[14:21] <chrisccoulson> so far, all messages which are explicitly sent to me by a human don't have a separate "Sender" header
[14:25] <seb128> bah, f*** evolution
[14:25] <seb128> it segfaults on opening google calendar invitations emails
[14:25] <cyphermox> oh
[14:25] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: seems it will filter the mailing list as well
[14:25] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, yeah, i just noticed that too
[14:26] <seb128> do you want to be notified about mailing lists?
[14:26] <didrocks> which will be ok with me, but I'm sure not for others…
[14:26] <didrocks> seb128: right now, with the current behavior, you will be
[14:26] <seb128> I though those were already filtered out because the to: is not you?
[14:26] <seif> didrocks, its me again
[14:27] <chrisccoulson> yeah, that's right. but we still show them if someone addresses it to you
[14:27] <seif> didrocks, how do i change the icon theme
[14:27] <chrisccoulson> (ie, if somebody replies incorrectly) ;)
[14:27] <seb128> chrisccoulson, well it will still do it when they reply to all because that will send 2 emails, one to you directly
[14:27] <didrocks> seif: install and run gnome-tweak-tool
[14:27] <seb128> chrisccoulson, that one should not get a sender:
[14:27] <chrisccoulson> ah, yes. that's probably the case actually
[14:27] <chrisccoulson> so that might still work
[14:28] <seif> and this installs mutter-common
[14:28] <seif> -.-
[14:29] <seb128> seif, use dconf-editor
[14:29] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: RES mem is 578M here, is it known?
[14:29] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, i haven't seen it use that much before. how much mail do you have?
[14:29] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: well, depends on the folder, is there a way to know the total number?
[14:30] <didrocks> (with the same amount of email, I'm at 240 in evo and it doesn't freeze as much right now)
[14:30] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, it should tell you in the statusbar
[14:30] <seb128> pitti, mvo: is that wanted that update-manager let me install packages without asking for a password?
[14:30] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: only for the current folder though?
[14:31] <pitti> Sweetshark: we should avoid updating javahelper into natty unless we really need to (but we can't sync it, someone needs to prepare an actual SRU)
[14:31] <pitti> Sweetshark: but for the natty LibO SRU it could just revert the dependency?
[14:31]  * pitti -> off again
[14:31] <seb128> pitti, mvo: ignore me, it does now
[14:31] <pitti> seb128: yes, that was changed last week
[14:31] <pitti> seb128: we now grant the package upgrade privilege by default to local admin sessions
[14:31] <seb128> pitti, it's broken in some way then ;-)
[14:31] <pitti> (but _only_ for admins)
[14:32] <pitti> but installation of new packages still requires passworrd
[14:32] <seb128> oh ok
[14:32] <seb128> excellent
[14:32] <seb128> pitti, thanks, have fun!
[14:32] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, yeah, although i'm not sure what you get if you click on the actual mail account. with the mail summaries extension, i get an overall count (14 folders with 23621 messages)
[14:33] <chrisccoulson> i need to delete some messages ;)
[14:33] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: I have nothing in the status bar in the mail account info
[14:33] <didrocks> so yeah, should be your extension
[14:33] <didrocks> in fact, I notice it jumps depending on which folder I'm in
[14:35] <seb128> jibel, the default application didn't migrate to dconf, they use mimetypes now
[14:42] <Sweetshark> pitti: thats what I did (revert the dep), but I fear the build will break now.
[14:53] <jibel> seb128, which means that corresponding launchers on unity-2d's dash won't be displayed until migrated ?
[14:53] <seb128> jibel, well it probably means they need to update their code yes
[14:55] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, do you use the 2D unity session at all?
[14:55] <chrisccoulson> m_conley currently has no indicators in it
[14:57] <seb128> jibel, bug #800689 is similar for unity 3d
[14:57] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 800689 in unity "Should stop using gconf in oneiric" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/800689
[14:58] <seb128> chrisccoulson, didrocks "fixed" it today to install the indicator-...-gt2
[14:58] <seb128> gtk2
[14:58] <seb128> chrisccoulson, they didn't port their loader to gtk3 yet
[14:58] <chrisccoulson> seb128, thanks
[14:58] <chrisccoulson> ^^ m_conley
[14:58] <seb128> if he does an upgrade that should fix it
[14:59] <m_conley> chrisccoulson / seb128: gotcha, thanks
[14:59] <seb128> yw
[15:18] <seb128> jibel, do you have a GNOME bugzilla account?
[15:20] <jibel> seb128, I think I have one somewhere but is there a gnome equivalent to apport to make it easy to spam bugzilla with reports ?
[15:21] <seb128> jibel, not really ;-) but don't bother about it, I think it's logical that you spam launchpad and that pedro upstream those that concern GNOME
[15:22] <jibel> seb128, anyway I think I nearly finished to review g-c-c, I'll upstream the reports.
[15:22] <seb128> jibel, it's just that the number of g-s-d and g-c-c bugs seems to be over what rodrigo_ can work on
[15:22] <jibel> :)
[15:22] <seb128> so we should upstream those without waiting on rodrigo
[15:22] <seb128> jibel, do you want me to upstream those that I know make sense upstream?
[15:23] <seb128> jibel, ignore my ping, I think you should focus on Ubuntu issues and let teams deal with their upstreams
[15:23] <seb128> jibel, if you want to be nice to rodrigo just move to hammer another product for a bit :p
[15:23] <rodrigo_> seb128, oh, so far it's ok, for the ones I have assigned to me
[15:24] <rodrigo_> but yeah, upstream as many as you can
[15:24] <jibel> seb128, I found a fair amount in unity and unity-2d as well, so there are bugs on everyone's plate.
[15:25] <jibel> anyway tomorrow is ubiquity's turn
[15:31] <seb128> ok
[15:31] <seb128> didrocks, bug #801282 is likely an unity issue I think but you might be able to confirm or not
[15:31] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 801282 in unity "wrong gnome-control-center icon displayed on dash" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/801282
[15:32] <seb128> didrocks, since the capplets have desktop files calling "g-c-c <capplet>" in oneiric I guess they all match alt-f2 g-c-c
[15:32] <seb128> it doesn't favorite exact matching right?
[15:49] <didrocks> seb128: it is an unity-places-application issue
[15:49] <seb128> didrocks, thanks
[15:50] <seb128> didrocks, could you run your bug syncing script btw?
[15:50] <didrocks> seb128: njpatel doesn't want anymore
[15:50] <didrocks> seb128: until they are actually fixing bugs
[15:51] <seb128> ok
[15:51] <seb128> just curious but why?
[15:57]  * didrocks pokes the gconf backend…
[16:12] <seb128> jibel, could you get a debug stacktrace or open a bug with apport and the segfault details on bug #805473
[16:12] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 805473 in gnome-control-center "gnome-control-center crashed with SIGSEGV in g_simple_async_result_complete()" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/805473
[16:15] <jibel> seb128, still installing dbg packages.
[16:51] <fta> grr, gtk is spamming ~/.xsession-errors
[16:58] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, maaaaaan, fixing your use cases is making my head explode ;)
[16:58] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: \o/ achievement :-)
[16:58] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: sorry about that ;)
[16:58] <chrisccoulson> lol
[16:59] <chrisccoulson> that's ok ;)
[17:01] <fta> didrocks, what's the typical memory usage of compiz/unity3d on i386?
[17:01] <didrocks> fta: depends on your hardware, nvidia cards take more
[17:02] <fta> nvidia..
[17:02] <fta> PID  USER      PR  NI  VIRT  RES  SHR S %CPU %MEM    TIME+  COMMAND
[17:02] <fta> 1825 fta       20   0 1109m 802m  16m S   31 24.5 647:17.12 compiz
[17:02] <didrocks> seems a memleak though
[17:02] <didrocks> shold be 400 or something like that
[17:02] <fta> it's clearly a pig
[17:04] <fta> didrocks, i was trying to track down why indicator-datetime-service takes a full core for a several seconds every few minutes, but compiz seems in a bad state
[17:05] <didrocks> fta: not that bad, 413, 95 there since this morning
[17:05] <didrocks> fta: you are not using nouveau?
[17:05] <fta> didrocks, no, nvidia-current
[17:06] <didrocks> hum, same here :/
[17:29] <fta> didrocks, 1111m 805m. it's increasing
[17:29] <didrocks> fta: better to check that with the unity people, running in valgrind can help. Testing if compiz only is doing that (by removing the unity plugin) can be of used too
[17:30] <seb128> try to figure what you use or do that create the issue
[17:30] <seb128> "301m  89m  12m" here after a day of use
[17:30] <seb128> using the application place and alt-f2 often
[17:33] <fta> booh, the indicator-datetime-service CPU spikes seems to be related to org/gnome/evolution/dataserver/Calendar/...
[17:34] <rodrigo_> out now for a bit, bbl
[17:35] <fta> it's polling a lot of stuff every 5min or so, freezing compiz for ~30sec
[17:38] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, http://paste.ubuntu.com/638035/. that should ensure that your inbox has priority over other mail boxes in your menu ;)
[17:39] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: you totally rock! :)
[17:50] <fta> didrocks, the leak stopped after i killed indicator-multiload
[17:50] <didrocks> fta: weird, I though we had a fix for that
[17:50] <fta> i thought that was fixed weeks ago
[17:50] <didrocks> right
[17:51] <didrocks> hum… need to track that again I think
[17:51] <didrocks> fta: can you reopen a bug about it?
[17:51] <didrocks> will ensure it's trackd
[17:51] <didrocks> tracked*
[17:51] <fta> hm, hold on, it's moving up again
[17:51] <didrocks> ah…
[17:52] <fta> it was taking ~100k per min. remained stable for 5 min after i killed that indicator, but it's now moving up again
[17:52] <didrocks> it didn't respawn?
[17:52] <fta> nope
[17:53] <didrocks> would be nice to have an idea of what you have on your system creating that issue. Oneiric is not that different from natty for unity
[17:53] <fta> compiz is still taking 10% cpu, while i'm not even touching it
[17:57] <seb128> didrocks, that part of the code is quite different
[17:57] <didrocks> with the gtk3 stake you mean? right, it changed thinking about it
[17:58] <seb128> didrocks, i.e http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~unity-team/unity/trunk/revision/1208
[17:58] <seb128> didrocks, no, with tim's refactoring
[17:58] <fta> restarting, it's unbearably slow
[17:58] <seb128> but you can probably count the gtk3 switch as well
[17:59] <fta> brb (assuming unity wishes to start, unlike in the last 2 weeks)
[18:01] <fta> bahh :(
[18:01] <fta>  $ /usr/lib/nux/unity_support_test
[18:01] <fta> X Error of failed request:  BadWindow (invalid Window parameter)
[18:01] <fta>   Major opcode of failed request:  138 (NV-GLX)
[18:02] <fta> any idea?
[18:03] <didrocks> fta: try in jockey to remove, then readd the nvidia driver
[18:04] <fta> jockey doesn't work for me, it fails with a cryptic error
[18:05] <fta> is "apt-get install --reinstall nvidia-current" enough?
[18:06] <didrocks> fta: maybe, I did it through jockey (and others as well) to get it working
[18:06] <fta> brb
[18:08] <fta> it worked
[18:10] <fta> ok, compiz started at 256m  96m  30m, far from my 1109m 802m  16m
[18:12] <didrocks> ok, sounds clloser to what I have now :)
[18:12] <fta> it's already leaking
[18:13] <fta> i just have xchat and 2 xterms
[18:13] <fta> and the indicators
[18:13] <seb128> what non standard indicators?
[18:14] <seb128> does it do with only standard indicators?
[18:14] <fta> just multilad, everything else is by default
[18:14] <fta> killing it
[18:28] <didrocks> ok, see you tomorrow guys, will try to rest a little
[18:31] <seb128> fta: does it work better without it?
[18:33] <seb128> vuntz, your note to packagers in gnome-desktop is weird
[18:33] <fta> seb128, slightly
[18:34] <seb128> fta: it's weird, other people don't get that issue so it's likely something out of the default configuration
[18:34] <seb128> fta: how much is "slightly"?
[18:35] <seb128> I can believe that indicators are leaking and that the multiload indicator triggers that but you shouldn't get lot of leaking with the standard set
[18:35] <seb128> they don't refresh or update often
[18:38] <fta> seb128, http://paste.ubuntu.com/638071/
[18:40] <seb128> fta: seems quite ok since you stopped it
[18:41] <seb128> GunnarHj, hey
[18:43] <fta> seb128, i'll keep watching
[18:44] <seb128> fta: thanks, I will try to get a valgrind log with the indicator-multiload and ping dx about it if needed
[18:44] <fta> i'm already at 103M :(
[18:45] <seb128> fta: try to see if it still does it while you don't use the computer
[18:45] <vuntz> seb128: weird as in "not understandable" or "not usual"?
[18:45] <seb128> vuntz, like as "why an api addition warrant a warning, those are usually fine"
[18:45] <GunnarHj> seb128: Hello Sebastien!
[18:54] <seb128> vuntz, would make sense for a change in an existant api or a drop of function
[18:54] <vuntz> seb128: well, yes and no
[18:54] <seb128> vuntz, did you meant to warn that there is an api break in there?
[18:54] <vuntz> seb128: it won't change the major of the soversion
[18:54] <vuntz> seb128: but it could change minor, and when an API break occurs, we'd go to libgnome-desktop4
[18:54] <vuntz> seb128: which makes no sense in that  case
[18:54] <vuntz> seb128: (we already had libgnome-desktop0, libgnome-desktop1 and libgnome-desktop2 just in 3.1.x)
[18:54] <seb128> does anyone care about the major? ;-)
[18:54] <vuntz> I do :-)
[18:54] <seb128> let me rephrase
[18:54] <seb128> is there any packaging system handling the major version in a special way?
[18:54] <seb128> (just curious)
[18:54] <seb128> (ours is just dealing with soname)
[18:54] <vuntz> no, I just hate that we reach 42 so quickly
[18:54] <seb128> GunnarHj, how are you?
[18:54] <vuntz> well you use soname + major of soversion
[18:54] <seb128> vuntz, ok, the warning makes sense if you care about the libtool numbers I guess ;-)
[18:54] <seb128> I would tend to take addition as normal and not worth a warning
[18:54] <vuntz> seb128: anyway, there's no api break ;-)
[18:54] <seb128> that's why I wanted to check ;-)
[18:54] <seb128> vuntz, thanks
[18:54] <seb128> vuntz, how are you btw?
[18:54] <GunnarHj> seb128: I'm fine, thanks. The summer weather makes life more easy. How about you? You seem to be rather busy at the moment. :)
[18:54] <seb128> GunnarHj, summer weather is nice indeed, can't complain ;-) yeah, things tend to be always busy there :p
[18:54] <seb128> GunnarHj, about the gdm discussion, don't take robert_ancell wrongly, he doesn't want to drop the feature
[18:54] <seb128> GunnarHj, it's just that rather than doing things the same way just because they were like that before he's trying to understand the rational and if that's the best way to provide what is needed
[18:54] <seb128> GunnarHj, which goes with "understand the need, then figure what best deserves it"
[18:54] <GunnarHj> seb128: Doesn't he? He could have fooled me. Did, actually...
[18:55] <seb128> GunnarHj, well he just states that nobody proved the need for having that option in that place, if you or somebody else comes with a convincing argument he will probably be fine with it
[18:55] <seb128> GunnarHj, doing thing a way because they were done that way before is not always right, it would mean we never question or improve ;-)
[18:55] <seb128> GunnarHj, just curious but do you often need to change your session locale? for what reasons (out of testing which is an hacker thing, not an user one)
[18:55] <GunnarHj> seb128: Absolutely. About questioning the way we do it, I mean. But it's not easy to present _proofs_ as regards the need just like that.
[18:55] <seb128> GunnarHj, well, no need of proof, you just need to come with examples
[18:56] <seb128> i.e give reasons why you change locales on your profile if you do so
[18:56] <seb128> but seems like so far the main argument was "on first login a new user need to select the locale" which could done in the user account dialog when adding the account
[18:57] <GunnarHj> seb128: No, if you disregard all the testings I've done, I don't change language often. I think robert_ancell is right about that we are talking about a rather small minority.
[18:58] <GunnarHj> seb128: But people with disabilities is a minority too. Are we going to ignore their needs?
[18:58] <seb128> is the small minority enough to justify exposing the option on the login screen?
[18:58] <seb128> GunnarHj, no, but those need are defined and clear to understand
[18:58] <seb128> what we try to get from that discussion is the need from people who want a locale selector on the login screen
[18:59] <seb128> we can't really address their issue without understand it
[18:59] <seb128> so far people only stated that's needed for a minority but nobody gave enough infos to figure what is the exact need
[18:59] <seb128> without knowing that it's hard to address the need in a correct way
[19:01] <GunnarHj> seb128: Without knowing how big the group is, yes, I think the exposure can be justified. Why? Because we know that there are people who appreciate it, and that those who don't aren't harmed by it in any way.
[19:02] <seb128> your argument seems to be "let's put it there because why not, some people find it handy and we can"
[19:02] <seb128> but you could justify adding quite some options on the login screen the same way
[19:02] <seb128> quite some users would like a way to configure the greeter options from there
[19:02] <seb128> i.e sound, color, images
[19:03] <seb128> also they need a "selector" there, but do they need to select language for text? input methods? keyboard layout?
[19:04] <seb128> without understanding what they want to do it's not easy to understand what options should be exposed in the ui
[19:04] <GunnarHj> seb128: I'd rather say let's not remove it, because we haven't properly analysed the need.
[19:04] <seb128> ok
[19:04] <seb128> the discussion is "let's analyse the need so we figure how we answer it properly"
[19:05] <GunnarHj> seb128: Language is a special case, since changes don't take effect within a session.
[19:05] <seb128> the answer could be "let's do what we had before" but could be different
[19:05] <seb128> like we didn't have an input method selector before
[19:05] <seb128> is that needed?
[19:06] <GunnarHj> seb128: I didn't know that we have an input method selector...
[19:06] <seb128> GunnarHj, ok, I need to go for dinner, I just wanted to try to explain why robert_ancell is doing that since it seemed you took it has an effort to drop the feature from your replies
[19:07] <seb128> GunnarHj, we have one in the session, not on the login screen
[19:07] <seb128> got to go
[19:07] <seb128> bbl
[19:07] <GunnarHj> seb128: Ok. Let's see if the discussion moves forward when he wakes up.
[19:07] <GunnarHj> By, seb.


[09:44] <Syria> Hello!! I have deleted all the users in the phpmyadmin by accedent!! How can create a new user agian?? I can't log in.
[09:46] <andol> Syria: http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/resetting-permissions.html#resetting-permissions-unix
[09:53] <Syria> andol:  After submitting the query I got this "Rows matched: 0  Changed: 0  Warnings: 0"
[09:53] <Syria> I don't think that I have a "root" user now, I have deleted all the users.
[09:55] <Syria> andol:  Can I remove it compeletly and re-install it agian from the scratch please? I don't have important information like data bases or something.
[09:58] <andol> Syria: You can do that too.
[10:06] <Syria> Lost the connection!
[10:29] <dchevak> hello all how are you
[10:32] <dchevak> I wish I new about IRC before changing anyway I was running ubuntu 12.04 server on 2 pc's for a small wireless intranet anyway switched one to CentOS 6.3 I always seem to have problems with ubuntu updates with apt-get
[10:34] <dchevak> can someone give me a link to search for IRC chat rooms looking for BIND NAME server ISC maybe I should go there maybe they have it posted on there web site
[10:51] <psivaa> jamespage: hallyn: Reported a new bug on lxc test cases, for a failure in SimpleLxcTests: bug 1144111
[13:56] <zul> jamespage:  quantum has testrepository support now maybe we should consider switching the packaging to use it? (i havent tested it though)
[13:57] <jamespage> zul, if you would like to test and propose it please feel free :-)
[13:57] <zul> jamespage:  ack
[14:17] <hallyn> psivaa: yeah i hadn't had a chance to verify, but some comments after stgraber's PEP8 cleanup patch made me think he might have accidentally undone a fix
[14:17] <hallyn> i'll merge a fix, thanks
[14:18] <zul> jamespage:  yeah not going to happen
[14:21] <hallyn> (i'll address stgraber's other comments - which i hadn't yet - at the same time :)
[14:21] <psivaa> hallyn: ack, thank you
[14:21] <g0tcha> hey guys, everytime i try to install something using apt-get i get this msg http://paste.ubuntu.com/5585178/
[14:22] <g0tcha> can someone help me out with this? i tried to run 'apt-get -f install' and 'apt-get autoremove' and still the same problem
[14:23] <stgraber> hallyn: oops, sorry about the breakage... I thought the diff looked reasonable here after I handled the conflict, but apparently not...
[14:24] <hallyn> stgraber: it's a long string of chrooted commands, eye-numbing.  completely understandable :)
[14:35] <hallyn> psivaa: fix should be pushed.  are you goign to be doing a new run very soon, or should i?
[14:37] <psivaa> hallyn: i could run once the fix goes to  lp:ubuntu-test-cases/server. Until then our tests wont pick the fix, but if you want me to run it against your personal branch, i could try
[14:37] <hallyn> psivaa: i pushed the fix to there
[14:38] <psivaa> hallyn: ahh ok, ill run the tests then. thanks
[14:39] <hallyn> psivaa: thanks.  (i had to nuke themachine i was last testing on :)
[14:40] <psivaa> hallyn: np, the tests are running now, I'll let you know the results once they are done
[14:45] <lyda> Looking at the ubuntu cloud server images here: http://cloud-images.ubuntu.com/precise/current/
[14:45] <lyda> is there an easy way to go from the .img files to an AMI?
[14:46] <lyda> in other words can i configure server images locally, run them through local testing and then release them as AMIs?
[15:24] <SpamapS> lyda: IIRC there's a tool that does exactly that
[15:26] <SpamapS> lyda: curious though, why not customize an EBS root instance and then just snapshot it and turn it into an AMI?
[15:32] <lyda> SpamapS: that's a valid way to do things of course, but I'd like to create an instance that i can use on open stack as well.
[15:32] <lyda> in addition i'd like to use it for running tests locally - without fears of incurring huge costs.
[15:40] <eagles0513875_> hey guys i am looking for documentation on how to setup sieve on ubuntu 12.04 does anyone have a good link on how to configure it
[15:41] <lyda> why bzr, why?
[15:41] <eagles0513875_> ?
[15:41] <eagles0513875_> that came out of nowhere lol
[15:41] <lyda> (sorry, nothing against bzr, but the rest of the world has chosen git.)
[15:42] <eagles0513875_> lyda: canonical seem to enjoy being different. hwo did you find setting up openstack on ur system? when i read the open stack documentation i find it rather daunting and intimidating
[15:43] <lyda> i find it a bit of a pain.  we don't really have a decent setup yet.
[15:43] <eagles0513875_> lyda: have you taken a look at cloud stack
[15:43] <eagles0513875_> citrix open sourced it under the apache license nto sure if that would be any easier
[15:43] <lyda> not really, no.
[15:43] <lyda> is it an openstack setup tool?
[15:44] <lyda> they often seem worse than openstack!
[15:44] <eagles0513875_> no
[15:44] <eagles0513875_> concept i would say is similar to that of open stack but its focus is infrastructure as a service
[15:45] <eagles0513875_> lyda: i guess it depends on the project
[15:45] <lyda> ah.  well, an amazon compatable api is important.
[15:46] <lyda> and honestly i think open stack is the right direction.
[15:46] <lyda> specifically i'm interested in the lxc "virtualisation."
[15:46] <lyda> ha!
[15:46] <eagles0513875_> :) lyda thanks for confirming with me though that im not the only one who finds open stack setup and configuration daunting
[15:46] <lyda> sudo pip install bzr
[15:47] <eagles0513875_> bzr is python based O_o
[15:47] <lyda> git clone bzr::lp:cloud-init
[15:47] <eagles0513875_> O_o
[15:48] <eagles0513875_> lyda: are you setting up your own instance of launchpad
[15:48] <lyda> i'm just checking out the code.  but with git, not bzr.
[15:48] <eagles0513875_> interesting
[15:49] <eagles0513875_> i have heard that launchpad isnt an easy thing to work with or setup
[15:49] <eagles0513875_> lyda: are you looking for a bug tracker of some sort?
[15:49] <lyda> nope.
[15:50] <lyda> internally we use jira.
[15:50] <lyda> and for SCM we use gitlab.
[15:50] <eagles0513875_> nice :) im hosting a few personal repos on a virtual server of my own but i think im going to start using bitbucket more
[15:50] <eagles0513875_> with bitbucket you have a choice between mercurial and git
[15:51] <eagles0513875_> lyda: if you looking for an external bug tracker checkout redmine as I have heard alot of good things about it
[15:52] <lyda> i have two oss projects and i actually use all the major git code hosters so contributors can use what they feel comfy with.
[15:53] <psivaa> hallyn: the LXC tests have another failure, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5585410/. Please let me know I should report a separate bug
[15:53] <lyda> see the README for https://github.com/lyda/misspell-check
[15:54] <eagles0513875_> lyda: have you used any web frameworks or anything seeing as you like using python
[15:55] <lyda> i've been trying out bottle (framework) and waitress (for serving).
[15:55] <lyda> they seem to work well.
[15:55] <eagles0513875_> does anyone know if i install the dovecot-sieve package on 12.04 if that will effect the current operation of my mail server? or will i still continue to to get emails and send them
[15:55] <eagles0513875_> lyda: if you like python check out django its is probably the most complete in terms of documentation
[15:56] <lyda> it is, but it also seems kind of heavy.
[15:56] <lyda> i have played with it.
[15:56] <eagles0513875_> lyda: what webserver did you try it out on
[15:57] <eagles0513875_> i need to when i have the time migrate all myservers away from apache prefork
[15:57] <eagles0513875_> that thing is a memory hog and implement php-fpm
[15:58] <lyda> for waitress i just used it directly for an internal deployment.
[15:58] <lyda> i think if i was actually deploying it i'd put it behind ngnix or apache.
[15:58] <eagles0513875_> what exactly is waitress like a pos system for restaurants or something
[15:58] <eagles0513875_> what about lighttpd lyda i have been told that has virtually 0 memory footprint somehow
[16:11] <sliddjur> Can someone help me out with enabling pam module cracklib to set password complexity rules? I've come to the point where I dont know what im doing anymore... :s
[16:12] <sliddjur> ./etc/pam.d/common-password:password     required        pam_cracklib.so retry=3 minlen=8 difok=3 dcredit=1 ucredit=1 lcredit=1 ocredit=1
[16:12] <hallyn> psivaa: d'oh.  typo.  sorry
[16:12] <hallyn> oen sec,
[16:12] <sliddjur> I thought this would enable password rules, but it doesnt seem to be enabled when I change my users password (not with root)
[16:13] <hallyn> psivaa: fix pushed, thanks
[16:14] <psivaa> hallyn: ok thanks, running again
[16:19] <SpamapS> lyda: perhaps have a look at https://github.com/stackforge/diskimage-builder
[16:20] <SpamapS> lyda: it will output a raw image that, I think, will boot just fine on ec2
[16:23] <rbasak> jamespage: hey! I've prepared an upload for ipmitool in bug 1074443 that I'd like to get in before feature freeze. Should I put this in the sponsor queue as usual in the hope that it'll go in on time, or could you review/upload it for me please?
[16:24] <SpamapS> eagles0513875_: also re "why bzr" its not so much that canonical enjoy being different as the fact that bzr and git grew at the same time... git in the kernel community (and later everywhere else) and bzr in canonical and its projects....
[16:24] <SpamapS> lyda: ^^
[16:25] <eagles0513875_> SpamapS: what advantages does it have over the already established ones such as git svn mercurial
[16:25] <SpamapS> lyda: anyway, since you are interested in openstack .. di-b is nice.. and developed using the same model.
[16:25] <SpamapS> eagles0513875_: bzr is already established too ;)
[16:25] <SpamapS> eagles0513875_: its just not widely adopted
[16:25] <eagles0513875_> what advantages does it have over the main stream ones  SpamapS
[16:25] <SpamapS> eagles0513875_: bzr doesn't ever rewrite history unless you explicitly say "delete that commit" and it can only pop them off the top.
[16:26] <SpamapS> eagles0513875_: instead it folds them down into commits underneath the larger ones
[16:26] <eagles0513875_> interesting but technically isnt that what the others do as well?
[16:26] <SpamapS> eagles0513875_: it also is *FAR* easier to learn how to use the whole bzr toolset. If you've never used bzr or git, bzr will take maybe a week to master.. git .. well I've been using git since December and I know f*** all about it.
[16:27] <SpamapS> eagles0513875_: forget svn, its not even in this conversation.
[16:27] <eagles0513875_> interesting
[16:27] <eagles0513875_> lol
[16:27] <SpamapS> eagles0513875_: hg I know very little about
[16:27] <eagles0513875_> lyda: have you looked at juju and charms for what you are doing to help ease your deployments of frameworks etc
[16:27] <SpamapS> eagles0513875_: git does rewrite history.. you can delete commits going back forever w/ rebase.
[16:28] <SpamapS> heh... IMO juju is not quite there for "easing deployment of frameworks"
[16:28] <SpamapS> It eases deployment of infrastructure like a champ
[16:28] <SpamapS> databases, monitors, logging, queues, all good. frameworks.. well.. just go try the django charm. :-/
[16:31] <rbasak> Technically git doesn't rewrite history, and you can't delete commits. You only create new history and generally choose to forget about old branches by moving branch tips. What I find interesting is that when we say we "merge" an Ubuntu package with a newer Debian package, what we actually do is in git parlance a "rebase" (despite what we might commit in bzr UDD).
[16:34] <SpamapS> rbasak: yeah, the way bzr is abused for separate tracking of upstream source and debian changes is definitely more git's territory
[16:35] <SpamapS> rbasak: you are tainted by git mastery .. git masters *HATE* bzr
[16:35] <SpamapS> and, I get it now
[16:35] <SpamapS> because git has all the tools to do the appropriate surgery on your VCS to make it be representative of what you want.
[16:35] <SpamapS> bzr hides them or outright makes them impossibly hard to find, because bzr is a perfectionist
[16:35] <rbasak> I think the problem is that bzr is very poorly documented for git masters. It hides what's really going on. So yeah, exactly what you're saying.
[16:36] <SpamapS> I also have the bad fortune to be dealing with OpenStack's limited git workflow, which isn't helping me love git ;)
[16:37] <rbasak> All the documentation is workflow based, which works until I have an unusual workflow. Then there is no documentation, and all I can do is ask others what they do. With git, the documentation is extremely details always enough (if you're willing to delve into the data structures, which is easier with a CS background).
[16:41] <jamespage> rbasak, ok - I'll take a look
[16:55] <jamespage> rbasak, is it actually a merge from upstream or a new upstream release?
[16:55] <rbasak> jamespage: I meant upstream as in not Debian. New upstream release that I've merged with previous Ubuntu package.
[16:56] <rbasak> As you're asking, I guess the answer is "new upstream release". I guess I shouldn't call it a merge then in this case?
[16:57] <jamespage> rbasak, yeah - I'll fix it up locally and upload for you
[16:57] <rbasak> Thank you!
[16:57] <jamespage> rbasak, uploading now
[16:58] <jamespage> rbasak, thanks for picking that up
[17:24] <jamespage> rbasak, build failure on powerpc - https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/raring/+source/ipmitool/1.8.12-0ubuntu1
[17:24] <rbasak> jamespage: :-(
[17:25] <rbasak> jamespage: looking at it now. Looks like a simple endianness/porting issue.
[17:36] <tkeith> I upgraded a package and it asked me what I want to do about changed configuration and I hit N for "keep current config". Now I want to know what the changes were. How do I get apt or dpkg to give me that option again?
[17:54] <rbasak> tkeith: sounds like a conffile prompt. Usually you'll end up with .dpkg-dist or .dpkg-old files in the same directory as the conffile affected. I'm not sure how to identify which conffile was affected after the prompt though. Searching for files with a .dpkg-dist suffix in /etc might be your best bet.
[17:54] <tkeith> rbasak: Ah, thanks! I knew which file it was, and there's a .dpkg-disk
[17:55] <rbasak> Great!
[18:32] <smoser> hallyn, i dont know if you're aware and it is by design or not
[18:32] <smoser> but i think that default memory size to kvm changed
[18:32] <smoser> i think at one point in ubuntu it was 256 maybe.
[18:32] <smoser> now it seems like 128
[18:32] <smoser> but i could be just mis-remembering
[18:32] <hallyn> smoser: yeah, kirkland carried a patch setting it actually to 356 i think,
[18:32] <hallyn> no you're right
[18:33] <hallyn> smoser: we can re-add that patch if it's needed for something, i'm just trying to get delta from debian as small as possible
[18:33] <hallyn> i do agree default size is useless :)
[18:33] <hallyn> shout if you want the patch back
[18:34] <smoser> hallyn, perhaps try to push that to debian?
[18:34] <smoser> to keep the delta small
[18:34] <mattrae> anyone familar with apt-mirror? my first download completed but i wanted to run again to just get anything that updated. now its saying its downloading the same amount of data i initially downloaded. anybody know if this is actually an incremental download?
[18:34] <hallyn> smoser: lemme ask there real quick
[18:34] <mattrae> i don't want to re-download everything if i can avoid it
[18:58] <tasslehoff> on my synology-nas it was possible to have an encrypted volume that I could decrypt and share via samba. how can I do the same on ubuntu? must I manually do the decrypt, and then restart samba with an added share on the mount point?
[18:58] <tasslehoff> or are there more elegant solutions?
[19:00] <sarnold> tasslehoff: how did you give the key to the synology to decrypt the data?
[19:01] <tasslehoff> sarnold: I think I only had to give a password when creating the share
[19:01] <tasslehoff> so, not sure exactly how secure it was
[19:01] <sarnold> tasslehoff: aha, so it stored the key somewhere?
[19:02] <RoyK> or used the password hash as the key?
[19:02] <sarnold> tasslehoff: you could re-create that with ecryptfs or dm-crypt and store the key on the server somewhere, so it doesn't require your interaction to mount it every boot...
[19:02] <sarnold> RoyK: ah, another good possibility
[19:03] <RoyK> meaning !secure
[19:05] <tasslehoff> I would have to make sure samba starts after the encrypted folder is mounted?
[19:09] <tasslehoff> Is truecrypt a good solution as well? Have used it on my desktop before, but never on a server.
[19:09]  * tasslehoff will google
[19:25] <guntbert> Where resides the setting if I want be prompted for non-LTS upgrades or not?
[19:26] <guntbert> s/if/whether/
[19:27] <patdk-wk> /etc/update-manager/
[19:27] <guntbert> patdk-wk: thx so much :-)
[19:31] <guntbert> hmm - two systems (12.04.02 LTS), both have "prompt=lts", one prompts me for 12.10 on login, one does not
[20:02] <zul> jamespage:  ping i filed the MIR for python-json-patch and python-json-pointer fyi
[20:29] <hallyn> stgraber: triggered a few pre-existing bugs in my cgroup patch, so the patchset i'm sending out is growing...  on the bright side it'll survive all the tests i can throw at it
[20:30] <hallyn> stgraber: interestingly, lxc-destroy isn't yet lxcpath aware (be careful with that!).  (patch to fix that going out now)
[20:34] <stgraber> hallyn: oh, so apparently I just used rm and not lxc-destroy when doing lxcpath testing ;) good catch
[21:06] <hallyn> smoser: mjt says he intended to send a patch to up default memory size upstream.  so we'll get this fixed through debian at least - thanks
[21:06] <utlemming> smoser: Bug #1145215
[21:10] <smoser> utlemming, what release is this ?
[21:10] <utlemming> precise
[21:11] <utlemming> I booted this on a non-EC2/Openstack cloud
[21:18] <axisys> how to install netbackup client?
[21:18] <axisys> dont see one
[21:18] <axisys> should this question be in offtopic ?
[21:22] <smoser> utlemming, it seems there is a bug there, but i dont understand how it would ocur with the /etc/cloud/cloud.cfg that is packaged.
[21:24] <utlemming> smoser: I am overriding the cloud-config. See: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5586309/
[21:24] <RoyK> axisys: heh - call support ;)
[21:26] <smoser> buti i think your file inside the image is busted.
[21:26] <smoser> as it should look like: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5586315/
[21:28] <utlemming> smoser: is the apt_mirrors syntax deprecated?
[21:29] <axisys> RoyK: heh
[21:32] <smoser> utlemming, yes. https://bugs.launchpad.net/cloud-init/+bug/1006963 has the correct way to do that.
[21:33] <smoser> it was intended for what you did to work, but clearly it did not.
[21:33] <utlemming> smoser: ack, thanks for the clarification
[21:45] <smoser> utlemming, fwiw, i cannot reproduce this.
[21:47] <smoser> it works as expected on openstack.
[21:47] <hallyn> stgraber: hm, (testing now, but) does /etc/init/lxc.override work in lucid?
[21:47] <stgraber> hallyn: not sure, I can't remember using those back then
[21:47] <utlemming> smoser: interesting. I'm doing another test
[21:48] <utlemming> smoser: I'll give you access once its booted
[21:48] <smoser> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5586373/
[21:50] <hallyn> stgraber: oh, sorry, that wasn't the problem...
[22:21] <jcastro> smoser: do you have any generic cloud talks? We have that cloud talk in Ann Arbor on Wednesday btw.
[22:22] <jcastro> smoser: I was just going to do Juju but I think some info about Guest would be welcome.
[22:51] <aleza84> how can I connect to a wireless lan wpa2 encrypted via console?
[22:57] <tsaavik> Anyone know if/where there are docs on the various default user groups in ubuntu?
[23:08] <tsaavik> Yes, there is checkout:
[23:08] <tsaavik> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Security/Privileges
[23:09] <sarnold> tsaavik: neat, thanks
[23:22] <azbyin> hi all..
[23:23] <azbyin> what is the essential difference between  %admin ALL=(ALL) ALL     and   %sudo   ALL=(ALL:ALL) ALL  in the sudoers file?
[23:24] <sarnold> azbyin: depends on the contents of the 'admin' group vs the 'sudo' group
[23:24] <sarnold> oh, there's the (ALL) vs (ALL:ALL) difference, too...
[23:24] <azbyin> i have identical sudoers files on my local workstation and a uec image running on a vm. both os are precise lts. on my local workstation my user is 'azbyin' and am in the 'sudo' group. on the cloud machine the user is 'ubuntu' and is in the 'admin' group
[23:25] <azbyin> now, my workstation asks for my passwd when i try any command with sudo (with the obvious credential caching (for 15 mins?)) while on the cloud machine ubuntu is able to run any sudo command without request for passwd
[23:26] <azbyin> from my understanding of reading the sudoers manpage, it should ask for a password _unless_ NOPASSWD is present in the rule
[23:26] <azbyin> so, i don't understand the difference in behaviour
[23:26] <bmoyles> is there a defaults line in sudoers that specifies anything around authentication?
[23:26] <azbyin> oh, also.. on my workstation my user is uid 1000, on the cloud machine ubuntu user is uid 999
[23:26] <bmoyles> you can turn off authentication globally in sudoers
[23:27] <azbyin> bmoyles, as i mentioned above, the sudoers files on my machine and the cloud machine are *identical*
[23:28] <azbyin> does it differentiate between 'system' users with uid < 1000 and non-system users where uid >= 1000 ?
[23:28] <azbyin> if yes, i do not see this in the manpage
[23:29] <azbyin> so, i assume it must be because of the differing group membership and consequently differing rule being applied
[23:29] <azbyin> but the rule by itself does not indicate that passwd will not be authenticated! so i do not see how this behaviour occurs
[23:30] <bmoyles> yes, they're identical, but look in /etc/sudoers.d
[23:32] <azbyin> ah indeed
[23:32] <azbyin> i was accidentally looking at the wrong tab
[23:32] <azbyin> i.e. i looked at /etc/sudoers.d/ on my own workstation *twice* and saw only the README file
[23:32] <azbyin> grr..
[23:33] <azbyin> thanks for the clarification. and i'm happy that i could understand the manpage by myself :)
[23:33] <sarnold> bmoyles: nice :)
[23:35] <bmoyles> the sudoers manpage has to rank as one of the more confusing manpages to ever exist :)
[23:36] <azbyin> well, it does list the BNF grammar
[23:36] <azbyin> but compensates by giving very clear examples at the end
[23:53] <sarnold> the downside is that the examples it gives are for a very comprehensive deployment suitable at a business or something
[23:54] <sarnold> it needs a "dumb guy" section for simple uses for people like me :)


[23:20] <Unit193> dzho: Hello!
[23:20] <dzho> uh, hi?
[23:21] <Unit193> yano: He didn't run!
[23:22] <dzho> and when elected, he didn't serve!
[23:39] <yano> :o
[23:43] <yano> http://ubuntuforums.org/announce.html?t=1650386
[23:43] <Unit193> Yep, saw the defacement a few hours ago, nice background music. :P