[11:36] <brianherman_home> i miss categorized a bunch of docs
[11:37] <brianherman_home> how do i change the category
[11:37] <brianherman_home> is it just at the bottom?
[19:59] <philbull> hi guys
[19:59] <mdke> evening all
[20:01] <mdke> anyone else around?
[20:02] <philbull> i see quite a few lurkers
[20:03] <mdke> let's wait a couple of minutes and see who pops up
[20:05] <philbull> is there an agenda?
[20:05] <mdke> I just added a kind of basic agenda earlier, but nothing specific
[20:05] <mdke> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/MeetingAgenda
[20:06] <mdke> feel free to add points
[20:08] <philbull> ok, shall we begin?
[20:08] <mdke> guess so :)
[20:08] <mdke> any lurkers arrived?
[20:08] <Pendulum> for the record, I'm here, but I'm new and haven't done anything for the doc team yet
[20:08] <mdke> Pendulum: great, welcome aboard
[20:09] <mdke> philbull: you wanna chair?
[20:09] <philbull> can do
[20:09] <philbull> First on the agenda:
[20:09] <philbull> Lucid post-release plans
[20:09] <philbull> what are they?
[20:10] <mdke> we've discussed a little bit with the translators about a fairly quick post-release release
[20:10]  * mdke goes to get the link
[20:10] <mdke> basically, the idea was to fix a few bugs quickly after release, give the translators a bit of time to update the translations, and roll a new upload around early June
[20:11] <philbull> sounds good
[20:11] <mdke> my proposal was here - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-translators/2010-April/003492.html
[20:11] <philbull> this is an lts release after all
[20:11] <mdke> the plan was originally to add a bit of material for Ubuntu Music Store, but we can also fix other bugs
[20:12] <philbull> Did we handle all of the late UI changes this release?
[20:12] <philbull> I caught a couple
[20:13] <mdke> I'm not sure, there were quite a few
[20:13] <mdke> I can't immediately think of any big bugs, except for the one about the offline startpage having the wrong logo
[20:13] <mdke> but i'd encourage anyone who finds bugs which they think should be fixed in lucid to nominate them and to raise them on the mailing list
[20:15] <philbull> OK, so i guess the most pressing issue is timeframe
[20:15] <philbull> I assume we'll work in the Lucid branch for these updates
[20:15] <philbull> when do we freeze, and when do we push the release?
[20:16] <mdke> I think we should give the translators 3-4 weeks, but otherwise I don't mind about timing
[20:16] <philbull> If we give it 2-3 weeks after the release, to give people chance to report bugs
[20:17] <philbull> then we fix everything, freeze, and give the translators a month
[20:17] <mdke> I think that's about right
[20:17] <philbull> So, approximately, that's freeze on, say, 17 May
[20:18] <mdke> heh, was typing the identical date
[20:18] <philbull> Release on 14 June?
[20:18] <mdke> realistically the release will be a weekend :) So call it translators stop on 11 June, upload on 12-13 June
[20:19] <philbull> Yep, sounds fine
[20:19] <mdke> the SRU process will take a bit after that I guess before it actually goes live
[20:19] <philbull> That's fine. All that matters is we get it out of our hands...
[20:19] <philbull> Unless there are any objections, I'll note this down as an action item
[20:19] <mdke> cool, thanks
[20:20] <mdke> any other lurkers appeared in the meantime?
[20:20] <philbull> ACTION: Mail the list (+translators) with a timeline for a post-Lucid ubuntu-docs release
[20:21] <philbull> OK, quiet tonight!
[20:21] <philbull> Next agenda item?
[20:21] <mdke> yeah :(
[20:22] <philbull> Plans for Maverick
[20:22] <mattgriffin> hi guys. i'm here as well :)
[20:22] <mdke> yay!
[20:22] <philbull> hey mattgriffin
[20:22] <mattgriffin> hey... sorry got distracted with work and a baseball game
[20:23] <philbull> I guess my first plan is to get some Mallard docs ready for testing. Soon.
[20:24] <mdke> from a ubuntu-docs pov, do you think we will be working with Gnome docs in this release, or do you think we should focus on the same structure we have now for maverick?
[20:24] <mdke> >_<
[20:25] <mdke> wb philbull
[20:25] <philbull> sorry, I'm back
[20:25] <mdke> my thinking is that this depends a lot on how quickly Gnome documentation starts to
[20:25] <mdke> develop
[20:25] <philbull> Yes.
[20:25] <mdke> from a ubuntu-docs pov, do you think we will be working with Gnome docs in this release, or do you think we should focus on the same structure we have now for maverick?
[20:25] <philbull> I think we should push on with the GNOME docs
[20:25] <philbull> we need to help upstream
[20:25]  * mdke nods
[20:26] <philbull> because, at the moment, we sort of *are* upstream
[20:26] <mdke> so should we also be looking at changing our own documents at all at this stage, or focus on upstream contribution?
[20:26] <philbull> I'll have loads more time to work on the GNOME desktop help in about a month
[20:26] <philbull> we should focus on upstream contribution
[20:26] <philbull> If we get the upstream stuff right, ubuntu-docs itself will be much smaller
[20:26] <mdke> that makes sense to me
[20:27] <philbull> we'll have a lot less to do ourselves, since GNOME will cover the majority of what we need to cover
[20:27] <philbull> So far, there are only really a couple of people working on the GNOME desktop help
[20:27] <mdke> I'm just concerned that Gnome desktop help won't be ready for maverick... but I suppose that if it isn't, we can just assess that mid-cycle and if necessary ship what we have now
[20:28] <philbull> I don't think there's any issue with it not being ready
[20:28] <philbull> I'll just do it all if I have to!
[20:28] <mdke> hah
[20:28] <mdke> ok, you're on
[20:28] <philbull> (I have quite a long summer this time round)
[20:28] <philbull> it would be great to get people involved, though
[20:29] <mdke> definitely
[20:29] <philbull> we should advertise more and set up some sort of structure to get people working on it
[20:29] <philbull> I just don't have time for that ATM though
[20:29] <mdke> we could use launchpad+bzr I suppose to allow people to create patches on upstream git if they feel more comfortable with bzr?
[20:29] <philbull> It doesn't even need to be that complicated
[20:30] <Pendulum> I'm about to quit my job so will have quite a bit of time to help out, but I'm also very much non-technical and not really sure the best place to start
[20:30] <philbull> Plain text submissions via email are fine at this stage
[20:30] <mdke> Pendulum: we can definitely help you along
[20:30] <philbull> Pendulum: being non-technical is fine
[20:30] <philbull> the most important thing is writing well
[20:31] <mdke> philbull: ok. Maybe a wiki then with the structure that is set up, so that people can just fill in the blanks
[20:31] <philbull> Yes
[20:31] <mdke> we can leave that up to Gnome to decide how best to arrange contributions
[20:31] <philbull> (OK, in this sense, Gnome=me)
[20:31] <mdke> aren't the others working on this?
[20:32] <philbull> Milo is, AFAIK
[20:32] <philbull> Shaun is very busy with Yelp etc
[20:32] <mdke> Gwaihir: you're lurking!
[20:32] <mdke> right
[20:32] <mdke> well I haven't learned Mallard yet
[20:32] <philbull> I don't know about Paul, but he's normally doing marketing stuff
[20:32] <Gwaihir> oops.. forgot there was a meeting here... :(
[20:32] <philbull> mdke: nothing to learn!
[20:32] <mdke> I was wondering whether the Rhythmbox manual might be a good place to start
[20:32]  * Gwaihir goes and read the backlog
[20:33] <philbull> aren't people already working on the RB manual?
[20:33] <mdke> dunno, maybe
[20:33] <philbull> we have an outline of topics for the desktop help
[20:33] <philbull> I think that will be a good place to start
[20:34] <philbull> I already have someone (Cristopher) working on part of it
[20:34] <mdke> off list?
[20:34] <philbull> yes
[20:34] <Gwaihir> philbull, somebody is already working on RB manual?
[20:34] <philbull> Gwaihir: I don't know
[20:34] <mdke> bring it on the list and others will get involved too, I think
[20:34] <philbull> do we have a list for this sort of thing?
[20:34] <philbull> mdke: sure
[20:35] <philbull> (todo list)
[20:36] <philbull> OK, I think that's an action item
[20:36] <philbull> ACTION: Publish list of Mallard documents for people to work on
[20:36] <mdke> any news of KDE adoption?
[20:36] <mdke> nixternal: here?
[20:38] <philbull> OK, we can park that
[20:38] <philbull> Getting the GNOME desktop help finished is my #1 priority
[20:39] <mdke> is the topic outline complete now?
[20:39] <philbull> Only for a couple of topic areas
[20:39] <philbull> there's plenty to work on, though
[20:39] <philbull> we want to finish a couple of areas first so we know what we're doing
[20:39] <philbull> Here you go:
[20:39] <philbull> http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-doc-list/2010-March/msg00121.html
[20:39] <mdke> ok
[20:40] <mdke> yeah I saw that
[20:40] <philbull> I'll set up a wiki page for completion status
[20:41] <philbull> OK, next up: Installation guide?
[20:41] <philbull> The Ubuntu manual guys have a chapter on this
[20:41] <philbull> we can use that, with appropriate edits
[20:43] <mdke> ok
[20:44] <philbull> I'm back
[20:44] <philbull> Lucid updates killing my wireless
[20:46] <philbull> OK, where were we?
[20:46] <philbull> Are there any objections to using the Ubuntu manual's installation chapter?
[20:46] <mdke> not here, but I haven't read it
[20:47] <philbull> last time I saw it it looked fine
[20:47] <philbull> I'd just like to edit it to remove some of the more technical language
[20:47] <philbull> It would be great if someone volunteered to work on this
[20:48] <philbull> it's a 1-2 person job
[20:48] <mdke> I would post to the mailing list and see who volunteers. you might even get someone from the manual project volunteering to help out
[20:48] <philbull> Yep, sounds like a plan
[20:48] <philbull> ACTION: Ask for volunteer to create installation guide out of Ubuntu manual material
[20:49] <philbull> We have about 10 mins before I need to head off
[20:49] <philbull> Are there any other pressing matters?
[20:49] <philbull> (We're a bit low on people in attendance I guess)
[20:50] <mdke> nothing from me
[20:50] <philbull> The only other thing I've been thinking about is rationalising the sound documentation
[20:51] <philbull> We have loads of troubleshooting advice for sound problems spread all over the wiki and forums
[20:51] <philbull> It would be good to collect it and make some sort of structured troubleshooter out of it
[20:51] <mdke> that would be very useful
[20:52] <philbull> (ditto for printing and wireless, but one thing at a time)
[20:52] <mdke> sound is a common issue
[20:52] <philbull> It would be nice to have a brainstorming session some time
[20:52] <philbull> Build up a list of common problems, match them up to solutions
[20:53] <philbull> figure out easy diagnostic steps
[20:53] <mdke> it's also quite a tricky technical issue, I suspect we might need some input from developers
[20:53] <philbull> yes
[20:53] <philbull> it would be good to discuss this at UDS, but I'm not going...
[20:54] <philbull> I'll ask on the list
[20:54] <mdke> good plan
[20:54] <philbull> ACTION: Float the idea of a sound troubleshooter on the list
[20:54] <philbull> On last thing
[20:55] <philbull> Working with the Canonical user experience guys
[20:55] <philbull> I want to get a small collection of user personas writtem
[20:55] <philbull> ^written
[20:55] <mdke> as I understand it, they haven't yet done much user testing that will be useful to us
[20:55] <mdke> but that might change in the next 6 months, I guess
[20:56] <philbull> I'm interesting in getting them to work with us
[20:56] <philbull> we need people in other teams to talk to us more
[20:57] <philbull> I think this is something to raise at UDS
[20:57] <philbull> I'll be attending remotely
[20:57] <mdke> ok
[20:57] <philbull> OK, anything else, or shall I go and make a cup of tea?
[20:57] <mdke> sounds good :)
[20:57] <mdke> thanks for chairing
[20:57] <philbull> heh, that's OK
[20:57] <mdke> let's schedule another meeting again soon
[20:58] <philbull> thanks for turning up!
[20:58] <philbull> mdke: yes, good plan
[20:58] <philbull> I'll work through my action items in a bit
[20:58] <mdke> I'll take the one about lucid-updates
[20:58] <philbull> Sure
[20:59] <mattgriffin> mdke: if you need any help with the lucid updates, please ping me
[20:59] <mattgriffin> mdke: but not until after next thurs ;)
[20:59] <mdke> mattgriffin: cool. Actually I've just pushed the material which I had added to our maverick branch to our lucid branch
[20:59] <philbull> Oh, for the guys who're watching: if you're interested in contributing, please email the mailing list<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[20:59] <mattgriffin> mdke: cool
[20:59] <philbull> we'll help you to get started
[21:00] <mdke> mattgriffin: it would be good to get some proper Ubuntu One help up and running for maverick
[21:00] <mdke> starting with the online material that you have we should be able to create some onboard system help
[21:00] <mattgriffin> mdke: cool
[21:01] <philbull> OK, I'm going to head off now
[21:01] <philbull> thanks for coming everyone!
[21:01] <mdke> mattgriffin: and moving the online stuff to the right website :)
[21:01] <mdke> philbull: thanks
[21:01] <mattgriffin> mdke: :)
[21:05] <mdke> Gwaihir: searching my email, the only stuff I can find about rhythmbox help is between you and Jim - I take it that didn't go anywhere?
[21:05] <Gwaihir> nope, Jim hadn't time and even did I, I plan on resuscitate that one in this period
[21:06] <mdke> ok, I'd like to help with this too
[21:06] <Gwaihir> I need to coordinate with the RB guys though, 'cause they don't follow any release schedule to my knowledge
[21:06] <mdke> I think we can get a structure and most of the material based on the current version I think
[21:07] <mdke> then update if they release again
[21:07] <Gwaihir> if we are lucky they should release one around september, so that gives us quite some time
[21:07] <mdke> how do you test Gnome? is there an easy to use live cd which is vanilla Gnome?
[21:07] <Gwaihir> I'll try to kickstart that this week first writing to the RB dev list and hear from them
[21:07] <Gwaihir> there should be the Foresight distro
[21:08] <Gwaihir> that is 99.9% upstream
[21:08] <mdke> ok
[21:08] <mdke> I need to learn how to use git as well
[21:09] <Gwaihir> it's not that difficult, you only need to get used to it
[21:09] <Gwaihir> like any other tools
[21:09] <mdke> guess so
[21:09] <mdke> well I guess there will be plenty of planning to do before git becomes necessary
[21:10] <Gwaihir> yeah :)
[21:11] <Gwaihir> also, I would like to have an almost identical manual with banshee...
[21:11] <mdke> that sounds sensible, I haven't used banshee but I could start
[21:12] <Gwaihir> I know pcutler had been working on that... don't know if he had written it or not
[21:12] <Gwaihir> need to check out that too
[21:57] <mewshi> hi there!
[21:59] <mewshi> Just out of curiosity, is there any thing that I can do right now? :)
[21:59] <mdke> mewshi: yeah, lots! The best option is to hang out on the mailing list
[22:00] <mewshi> Ok :)
[22:00] <mdke> mewshi: there are three emails from this evening from PhilBull about how people can contribute over the next release cycle
[22:01] <mdke> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2010-April/014731.html
[22:01] <mdke> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2010-April/014730.html
[22:01] <mdke> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2010-April/014729.html
[22:01] <mdke> mewshi: I don't know what you are interested in but we'll definitely appreciate any help you can give
[22:02] <mewshi> I used to have a job doing editing, is there anything that needs edited? :3
[22:03] <mdke> you can certainly help by reviewing the documentation that we have any reporting bugs or making patches
[22:03] <mdke> have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/SystemDocumentation for more info
[22:06] <mewshi> How do I get a hold of the person to express interest in doing the installation guide? >.>
[22:07] <mdke> mewshi: just reply to that email on the list :)
[22:10] <mewshi> how do I do that from the web? >.>
[22:10] <mewshi> I'm sorry, I'm not used to mailing list archives >.<
[22:11] <mdke> it's not possible from the ubuntu list website, but if you like you can do it from another website like Gmane
[22:11] <mdke> you can browse/reply from here - http://news.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ubuntu.doc
[22:11] <mewshi> Just send a message to the mailing list address?
[22:11] <mewshi> Will that work?
[22:12] <mdke> that will work but it wouldn't be a reply in that case, it will start a new thread. But if you don't like gmane, that will certainly do the trick. You'll need to subscribe to the mailing list first
[22:13] <mewshi> I already have :)
[22:13] <mdke> great
[22:19] <mewshi> Ok, I think I sent an e-mail to the list now, it's part introduction, part expression of interest in helping with the installation guide :)
[22:20] <mdke> sounds good
[22:20] <mdke> welcome aboard and look forwarding to seeing your work :)
[22:26] <mewshi> do you know of any wiki articles or anything that could be cleaned up or anything? :)
[22:37] <mewshi> Seriously, if there's anything I can do right now, tell me :)
[22:38] <mewshi> I have 3 hours of nothingness to look forward to otherwise
[22:47] <mewshi> mdke, you know of anything I can do right now?  Honestly, I'm very bored.
[22:48] <DarkwingDuck> mewshi: I believe there are some bugs already reported into ubuntu-docs that you could create patches for.
[22:48] <mewshi> Ok, and how do I do that?
[22:51] <DarkwingDuck> mewshi: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-docs Look at the new ones...
[22:51] <DarkwingDuck> mewshi: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam this will give you some guidance too
[22:52] <DarkwingDuck> mdke: You going to be able to make it to UDS?
[23:33]  * mewshi is terribly lost
[23:36] <mewshi> can someone please give me a good starting project and help me understand what I need to do?


[16:15] <ejat> The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required:
[16:15] <ejat>   linux-signed-image-generic
[16:15] <ejat> Use 'sudo apt autoremove' to remove them.
[16:15] <ejat> The following packages will be REMOVED:
[16:15] <ejat>   linux-signed-generic
[16:15] <ejat> The following NEW packages will be installed:
[16:15] <ejat>   linux-headers-4.4.0-16 linux-headers-4.4.0-16-generic linux-image-4.4.0-16-generic linux-image-extra-4.4.0-16-generic linux-tools-4.4.0-16
[16:15] <ejat>   linux-tools-4.4.0-16-generic
[16:15] <ejat> The following packages will be upgraded:
[16:15] <ejat>   linux-generic linux-headers-generic linux-image-generic linux-tools-virtual
[16:15] <ejat> 4 upgraded, 6 newly installed, 1 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
[16:15] <ejat> Need to get 69.0 MB of archives.
[16:15] <ejat> After this operation, 297 MB of additional disk space will be used.
[16:15] <ejat> Do you want to continue? [Y/n]
[16:15] <ejat> should i proceed ?
[19:36] <infinity> ejat: No.
[19:36] <infinity> ejat: You also shouldn't run -proposed.
[19:36] <infinity> ejat: Specifically to avoid such things.
[19:46] <ejat> :(
[19:52] <ejat> is there a way to undo?


[00:11] <directhex> Laney: i have access to a ppc porterbox. ask me again tomorrow
[00:12] <stgraber> directhex: the result I pasted before were on davis (ppc porterbox) so you should get exactly the same thing :)
[00:13] <directhex> good, 'cos i can't be bothered booting my laptop just for its juicy ssh key
[07:49] <dholbach> good morning
[22:33] <blackmoon-105> hi, i've got a problem with a dkms package: all source files are installed in the dkms-tree, compiled and installed in the modules directory, but i've got an error: "Error!  Build of r8168.ko failed for: 2.6.38-9-generic (x86_64)
[22:33] <blackmoon-105> "
[22:35] <blackmoon-105> the full make.log is here: http://pastebin.com/VhpNyQB7
[22:42] <blackmoon-105> any hints?
[22:45] <Jarvis> blackmoon-105: are you sure thats the right buildlog ?
[22:46] <blackmoon-105> Jarvis: yes i'm sure
[22:46] <zooko> Dear people of #ubuntu-motu: Tahoe-LAFS has finally been packaged in Debian!
[22:46] <micahg> \o/
[22:47] <Jarvis> blackmoon-105: the reason i ask is it doesn't show any errors :/
[22:47] <zooko> What do I need to do to make the Ubuntu package of Tahoe-LAFS be synchronized with the Debian package thereof?
[22:47] <Jarvis> infact that looks like a successful build of that module :/
[22:47] <tumbleweed> zooko: well, first see if there are any major differences, then if not, request a sync
[22:48] <blackmoon-105> Jarvis: yes the module is build (but not stripped) and installed
[22:49] <blackmoon-105> but on console i've got an error and it say to see the log for more informations
[22:49] <blackmoon-105> but the log didn't help
[22:49] <Jarvis> indeed it doesn't :/
[22:50] <micahg> zooko: requestsync if there's no diff
[22:50] <zooko> Hm. I guess I would inspect the debian and ubuntu diffs to see.
[22:53] <jtaylor_> re
[22:53] <jtaylor_> my irc client went haywire -.-


[14:57] <rbasak> dholbach: what's happening with creating the Hangout for us please? Usually someone else does it and sends me a link. I'm not sure we have anyone nominated this time.
[16:24] <dholbach> sorry... I was busy setting up session, I'm sure you were sorted out, right?
[17:02] <rbasak> dholbach: popey sorted me out, thanks. I can try earlier for the next session nacc and I are running at 1800 UTC.
[17:04] <dholbach> cool, thanks
[17:04] <dholbach> just ping mhall119, popey or myself for help
[17:04] <dholbach> we'll figure it out if necessary :)


[00:06] <RAOF> TheMuso: I see that I forgot Ubuntu constraints in my lib32asound2-plugins work.  ia32-libs is in main, so alsa-plugins can't build against it, so lib32asound2-plugins doesn't get a pulseaudio plugin.  Which was my original goal!  Urgh.
[00:07] <allquixotic> RAOF: use getlibs
[00:08] <RAOF> allquixotic: That's not /exactly/ what I was after :)
[00:08] <allquixotic> ah, you want to push some kind of update to the real packages so that the pulse plugin is provided in the actual distribution on x86_64?
[00:08] <allquixotic> for x86?
[00:09] <RAOF> Yes.
[00:09] <allquixotic> that's a great idea, that problem has plagued me before, along with my friends
[00:09] <allquixotic> especially with wine...
[00:09] <allquixotic> I solved it with getlibs but it'd be great to have that in Jaunty
[00:09] <RAOF> This works in Debian, because ia32-libs is in main, and they don't have a main/universe separation.
[00:09] <jdong> why don't we have a magical multilibs system like fedora/yum yet?
[00:09] <allquixotic> it'd be great to have it in Intrepid too but...
[00:09] <allquixotic> chances are slim for new feature
[00:10] <RAOF> allquixotic: I believe ia32-libs in intrepid contains the pulseaudio asound plugin, actually.
[00:10] <allquixotic> does it?
[00:10] <jdong> pulse asound works on my skype on amd64.
[00:10] <RAOF> jdong: Because dpkg doesn't allow you to install the same package twice :)
[00:10] <jdong> I haven't added any more 32-bit libs.
[00:10] <jdong> RAOF: and why don't we fix that? :)

[00:11] <RAOF> That'd be cool.  The Debian multiarch proposal /looked/ pretty nice :)
[00:11] <jdong> yeah and it seems like Fedora's hacked up something fairly fucntional with yum
[00:11]  * allquixotic passes the buck to Debian to fix their dpkg utility. Although if we have sort of affinity for the Debuntu movement, then we are just as likely to do that as Debian
[00:11] <jdong> most of their libs are installable in .i386 flavors
[00:12] <directhex> RAOF, i'm sure i remember speaking to someone about multiarch years ago
[00:12] <directhex> RAOF, it might've been Mithrandir
[00:12] <RAOF> Yeah.  It's been simmering for quite some time.
[00:12] <directhex> jdong, there's one little problem with the .i386 thing
[00:13] <RAOF> It might have boiled dry at this point, though.
[00:13] <directhex> jdong, one which makes sysadmins shout & scream
[00:13] <allquixotic> yep, my laptop runs Fedora 10 because of # yum install alsa-plugins-pulseaudio.i386
[00:13] <allquixotic> (among other things, too)
[00:54] <crimsun> dpkg -L ia32-libs|grep pulse
[00:54] <crimsun> err, sorry
[00:57] <RAOF> crimsun: Yeah, they're there.
[01:01] <TheMuso> RAOF: Did my upload fix the issue BTW?
[01:01] <RAOF> TheMuso: Well, it'll now prevent people from installing lib32asound2-plugins, which is fine.
[01:02] <RAOF> Because all those plugins (and more) are in ia32-libs anyway.
[01:02] <TheMuso> RAOF: Yeah.
[01:04] <RAOF> Oh, while you're here... :)
[01:05] <RAOF> You seem to be our dmraid maintainer.  Any comments on what I think is the obviously-correct patch on bug #306114 ?
[01:06]  * TheMuso looks.
[01:07] <TheMuso> RAOF: Don't tell me you use that pile o crap?
[01:08] <RAOF> TheMuso: No, but it seems to be installed.  That typo causes error output everytime I update the initramfs, so... :)
[01:09] <RAOF> I'm not sure _why_ it's installed, but this is a fairly fresh Jaunty install and I haven't deliberately installed it.
[01:09] <TheMuso> RAOF: Anyway, thats obviously something I missed that is different in Debian, thanks.
[01:09] <TheMuso> RAOF: Ok, I'll upload that now, thanks.
[01:10] <RAOF> No problem.
[03:43] <tjaalton> RAOF: sounds nice
[03:46] <shaya> ifconfig is returning crazy info on intrepid for me
[03:46] <shaya> RX packets:72372 errors:0 dropped:1791015270 overruns:0 frame:0
[03:46] <shaya> namely the dropped
[03:46] <shaya> it keeps on cycling throgh its entire number space
[04:12] <RAOF> tjaalton: I was actually wondering whether we should try to use it by default for some hardware :)
[04:19] <tjaalton> RAOF: bold, I like it :)
[04:23] <RAOF> tjaalton: Works pretty well for me :)
[04:23] <RAOF> Therefore everyone should use it!
[04:27] <tjaalton> dogfood for the masses!
[04:28] <Treenaks> hmmm.. dogfood
[04:29] <tjaalton> you found the diner yet?-)
[06:34]  * NCommander has the only laptop at UDS that requires a jumpstart to connect to the net
[06:36] <StevenK> NCommander: How does one jumpstart it?
[06:37] <NCommander> StevenK, ask wgrant
[06:37] <StevenK> Geez NCommander is an idiot
[06:37] <wgrant> (I'm next to StevenK and one person from NCommander)
[06:38] <NCommander> Riddell, your style of taste reeks horrible
[06:38] <calc> ah i found the channel :)
[06:38] <StevenK> wgrant has a calc buffer
[06:38]  * NCommander wonders when sanity will enter ... or leave
[06:38] <StevenK> it ever existed?
[06:38]  * wgrant calls the Hobbsee to part NCommander.
[06:41] <calc> Hobbsee: KDE is... EVIL! ;-)
[06:42] <wgrant> That's just cruel. She has no laptop with her.
[06:43] <NCommander> wgrant, she'll steal StevenK's laptop and make some witty remark and use the stick
[06:45] <wgrant> Hmm, Luke has a convenient stick here.
[06:45] <StevenK> NCommander: The stick is both metric and imperial, it has been checked over. Fear the stick
[06:46] <NCommander> Do you have an International Stick Smashing Permit?
[06:46] <NCommander> ^ StevenK
[06:46] <calc> i can makes unsubstantiated claims of KDE's evilness due to maintaining it for several years... :-P
[06:47] <wgrant> calc: Yes, but you're crazy.
[06:47] <calc> i'm getting close to maintaining OOo as long now
[06:47]  * NCommander is wondering how long until the fight breaks out
[06:47] <calc> and i long ago learned OOo is evil ;-)
[06:47] <NCommander> Just compiling it requires signing over your soul
[06:48] <calc> yea
[06:48] <StevenK> To Sun
[06:48] <NCommander> and Sun will use it to make Java
[06:49] <StevenK> NCommander: After mincing it
[06:49] <NCommander> and using it to create CDDL-ed licensed code
[06:50] <wgrant> Oooh, nasty.
[06:51] <Riddell> NCommander: what's wrong with my style?
[06:51] <NCommander> Riddell, nothing, it was simply an experiment in the concept that what you say in real life, and what you say on IRC can be completely different things
[06:52] <Riddell> NCommander: are you downstairs?  did I miss you?
[06:52] <NCommander> Riddell, try looking up from the keyboard
[06:52] <wgrant> He's over here.
[06:52] <StevenK> Riddell: He is, and you did.
[06:53] <calc> NCommander: so you are in his room?
[06:53] <Riddell> ah well, I'm asleep now, introduce yourself to me tomorrow
[06:53] <NCommander> calc, unless your also in the same room ...
[06:53] <calc> and someone Riddell is typing in his sleep
[06:54] <NCommander> calc, he's simply using the Transreality Transmission Control Protocol
[06:54] <calc> i need to be a track lead so i can get a spiffy shirt from bdmurray
[06:56] <wgrant> calc: You can compete with NCommander for the insanity track.
[06:56] <NCommander> wgrant, I thought you were the crowd favorite for that
[06:57] <calc> wgrant: no one can beat me for insanity... i have maintained ALSA, KDE, and now OOo :-)
[06:57] <wgrant> I don't do anything particularly insane!
[06:57] <wgrant> calc: Right, but NCommander thinks m68k is worthwhile.
[06:57] <StevenK> Doorstop!
[06:57] <NCommander> calc, I've fixed mono bugs, I've done Ada transitions via hardy-sru
[06:58]  * StevenK hides from infinity
[06:58] <NCommander> I help with crackports ...
[06:58] <calc> wgrant: its great for a space heater
[07:01] <calc> my m68k isn't nearly as crack as NCommander's
[07:01] <NCommander> calc, its not mine
[07:02] <calc> just a poor 840av w/128mb
[07:03] <calc> StevenK: well the US wasn't a prison...
[07:05] <calc> now that we got a legimately elected president maybe we won't be a prison again :)
[07:05] <NCommander> calc, you still have hope ...
[07:26] <calc> StevenK: so are you the oldest Aussie? you've been on freenode for 8 years
[07:26] <calc> i've been on freenode almost as long as the compiz guy has been alive ;-)
[07:26] <wgrant> Hah.
[07:26]  * wgrant too is just 17
[07:27] <calc> Registered : Nov 04 16:56:38 1998 (10  years, 5 weeks, 1 day, 14:29:12 ago)
[07:27] <NCommander> calc, that's not a good thing
[07:27] <NCommander> The older your freenode account, the less of a life you have. It forms a rather interesting graph
[07:28] <calc> NCommander: maybe i've just been using irc since i was a baby? :)
[07:28] <NCommander> calc, I had wireless in the womb
[07:28] <calc> Registered : Jan 29 01:49:02 1994 (14  years, 45 weeks, 2 days, 05:39:15 ago) <- thinks that is the oldest account
[07:28] <wgrant> Oh dear.
[07:28] <wgrant> No wonder you maintain OOo.
[07:29] <NCommander> calc, is that lilo's account?
[07:29] <calc> NCommander: yea
[07:29]  * NCommander remembers when he died
[07:29] <calc> yea i live in the same city he did and never managed to meet him
[07:30] <calc> and riding a bike in Houston is crazy
[07:30]  * calc knows other people who got hit by cars as well, but they luckily survived
[07:30] <calc> there are generally no bike lanes, etc
[09:37] <didrocks> morning o/
[09:38] <didrocks> pitti: can you take a look at this hardy SRU (bug #212098) when you will have time to do so, please?
[10:48] <LimCore> hi
[10:49] <LimCore> ubuntu failed on me epically - silently destroyed lots of my files
[10:50] <LimCore> this is issue on many levels, and I wanted to develop solution to one of them:  there is no way to gracefully turn of computer fastly when the power to monitor is gone.  Fix: make power button always shut down the box (instead asking damn questions and confirmations)
[10:50] <LimCore> how to have is so that power button always just executs given script?
[11:03] <hunger> When will OOo 3 become available in jaunty?
[11:08] <pochu> hunger: possibly when bug 305790 is fixed.
[11:08] <directhex> hunger, in jaunty?
[11:08] <hunger> pochu: Thanks. Just saw that it was submitted to LP for building and failed a while back.
[11:09] <hunger> aka. yesterday:-)
[15:14] <fbond> Hi, so most init scripts seem to have "INIT INFO" blocks at the top, but update-rc.d makes no use of them when deciding what the default runlevels for an init script should be.  Is there any plan to make use of this data, or is it only present for LSB compatibility?
[16:00] <Koon> fbond: both
[16:03] <fbond> Koon: Any idea where I can get info on what is happening with update-rc.d?
[16:04] <Koon> fbond: you mean, info on what update-rc.d does ?
[16:05] <Koon> fbond: man update-rc.d, or look directly at update-rc.d code
[16:06] <fbond> Koon: No, not on what update-rc.d does, on changes to update-rc.d to make use of LSB init script comments.  Bugs or specs.
[16:07] <Koon> fbond: the long-term idea is to fully make use of upstart. See http://upstart.ubuntu.com/
[16:08] <fbond> Koon: And in that case, the LSB comments would still be parsed (but by some upstart tool)?
[16:08] <Koon> fbond: i'm not sure.
[16:19] <ScottK-laptop> Koon: Are you @ UDS?
[16:20] <Koon> ScottK: no.
[16:20] <ScottK-laptop> OK.  Looking for someone who's there that can maybe find out how we listen in ...
[16:20] <Koon> yes, I also intend to listen to the morning conferences
[16:20] <Koon> haven't found listening details so far
[17:17] <lukehasnoname> Anyone know where audio streams will be for UDS, if there are to be any at all?
[17:18] <ScottK-laptop> There usually are.  Lots of us are wondering right along with you.
[17:18] <NCommander> lukehasnoname, I know we had to sign releases to be filmed
[17:18] <NCommander> I'll ask the question now
[17:18] <NCommander> I just asked Scott and he had no idea
[17:23] <lukehasnoname> :(
[17:31] <slangasek> http://icecast.ubuntu.com/ lists stuff, but none of them say "plenary" which is what's happening currently
[17:34] <iulian> Yay!
[17:36] <slangasek> ArneGoetje: I think I'm in another session at 11am, but I'm noticing with interest your session on new interfaces for font management; is there any more (tentative) design detail available yet, or should I wait until after the session to peek at it again?
[17:55] <ArneGoetje> slangasek: It's not *my* session, but it touches my topic, so, I'm of course highly interested in that session.
[17:55] <pitti> directhex: will do, but later (I'm at UDS)
[17:55] <slangasek> ArneGoetje: ah, ok :)
[19:39]  * StevenK bashes ogra. 1) You're not the UDS channel
[19:39] <ogra> oh
[19:39] <StevenK> ogra: 2) It's "the", not "teh" :-P
[19:39] <ogra> right, i didnt plan to use my lappie
[19:39] <ogra> :P
[23:49] <Laney> udsserver dents too much
[23:49] <Laney> >:(
[23:55] <jpds> Laney: summit.u.c?
[23:56] <Laney> jpds: http://identi.ca/udsserver
[23:56] <jpds> Ah, right.


[09:25] <alan_g> greyback: I just spotted some QtMir build failures in my silo (2641), but they're not reported as failures on the front page, just in the PPA (https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/ubuntu/2641/+packages) is this normal? Or should I worry?
[09:26] <greyback> alan_g: no need to worry, those arches are missing dependencies, qtmir hasn't built on those in some time
[09:27] <alan_g> greyback: thanks. I suspected that was the case, but had to check.
[10:51] <alan_g> anpok: did you ask you question against the wrong MP? (It seems to be more relevant to the follow-up.) https://code.launchpad.net/~alan-griffiths/mir/request-with-authority/+merge/320825
[10:53] <anpok> alan_g: oh I did not notice that the follow up was already up for review
[10:53] <alan_g> anpok: can you at least approve the first? I don't think your question matters there.
[11:08] <alan_g> attente: do you have an opinion on whether GTK resize already works on Mir? Join the discussion on https://code.launchpad.net/~alan-griffiths/mir/client-initiates-user-move-and-resize/+merge/320917
[11:25]  * alan_g is nagged into rebooting


[02:38] <arraybolt3[m]> OK, another screenshot candidate.
[02:38]  * arraybolt3[m] uploaded an image: (579KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/VltXmPVYVbTrwEhBlYidDnvV/image.png >
[04:51] <guiverc> looks good to me arraybolt3[m]
 https://twitter.com/lxqt_project/status/1561284524071612416?t=wUcBVoZTTCCp24LOyh76PQ&s=35
[16:24] <arraybolt3[m]> Oh hey guys, I just learned that the LibreOffice localization bug fix SRU got accepted into -proposed... 2 days ago. I failed to see it until just now. We may want to test that. I'll try to do some tests on my end.
[16:24] <arraybolt3[m]> (The package is calamares-settings-lubuntu for Lubuntu, and calamares-settings-ubuntustudio for Studio.)
[16:25] <arraybolt3[m]> Eickmeyer: ^
[16:40] <Eickmeyer[m]> arraybolt3: Right, haven't had a chance to get to that bug yet. Could either you or Leo get to that?
[16:41] <arraybolt3[m]> Sure.


[00:47] <lifeless> is this a regression:
[00:47] <lifeless> :!bzr pull :push
[00:47] <lifeless> bzr: ERROR: Unsupported protocol for url "lp:~lifeless/launchpad/bug-722956"
[00:58] <spiv> lifeless: I'm not sure, but it's certainly not ideal.
[00:59] <spiv> lifeless: not a regression based on quick experimentation
[00:59] <lifeless> spiv: k. do you want a bug files?
[01:00] <poolie> there may be one, but if there isn't please do
[01:16] <lifeless> poolie: I no longer know the bzr bugs like the back of my hand :)
[01:18] <lifeless> poolie: I've filed bug 728162, I wasn't sure how imprtant to make it, and have left it untriaged as a result
[05:47] <stewart> hi! I'm having issues using fast-export to do a fast-import into git. I'm getting an error from the git fast-import about a path not being in branch.
[05:47] <stewart> http://paste.drizzle.org/show/418/ and http://paste.drizzle.org/show/419/ are relevant
[05:48] <stewart> (i'm only trying the import to run gitdm on it... instead of extending bzr stats, at least initially)
[05:48] <poolie> hi
[05:49] <stewart> poolie, hi!
[05:54] <poolie> sorry that doesn't ring any bells
[05:55] <poolie> i would probably dig into the fastexport stream to work out whether the name was in fact written already
[05:55] <stewart> poolie, hrm. darn.
[05:55] <stewart> poolie, i'll try doing a bzr fast-import :)
[06:39] <spiv> Hmm, is it just me, or is per_branch.test_bound_sftp always skipping every test?
[06:47] <jam> spiv: yes, I saw that a while ago, and I think I opened a bug
[06:52] <stewart> poolie, the first mention of that path is a "M 644 inline storage/innobase/handler/handler0alter.cc" line... which IIRC means the same as create new file, right?
[07:12] <poolie> i think so
[07:12] <poolie> hi spiv, jam
[07:13] <stewart> trying new git version, seeing if it's fixed there :)
[07:43] <maxb> spiv: I'm sorry to report that the bzr-loom testsuite run in the daily PPA is still having five tests failing with NoSuchRevision exceptions after your branch has landed
[07:44] <maxb> although...perhaps thats because the version of bzr itself wasn't new enough
[07:44]  * maxb hits some rebuild buttons
[07:46] <spiv> maxb: yeah, that's probably what's up
[09:20] <maxb> Hurrah! The daily PPA is now *all green*
[09:25] <lifeless> \o/
[10:25] <catphish> does bazaar support a 'receive' hook?
[10:39] <maxb> catphish: What is a 'receive' hook?
[10:41] <catphish> when a client pushes to a server, a 'receive' hook would be executed on the server side
[10:41] <catphish> similar to pull i suppose, but initiated by an external host
[10:50] <maxb> That's a git-ish way to describe it :-)
[10:50] <catphish> i'm a git user :)
[10:50] <maxb> There's a post_change_branch_tip hook
[10:50] <catphish> that is what i need :)
[10:50] <maxb> What do you want to do with the hook?
[10:51] <catphish> when someone pushes to my branch i want to know what commits were pushed
[10:51] <maxb> right
[10:51] <maxb> http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/bzr.dev/en/user-reference/hooks-help.html#post-change-branch-tip
[10:52] <catphish> that seems ideal, thanks
[10:52] <catphish> is there any documentation about what params it passes?
[10:52] <maxb> yes.... at that link
[10:52] <maxb> post_change_branch_tip is called with a bzrlib.branch.ChangeBranchTipParams
[10:53] <catphish> oh yeah
[10:53] <catphish> sorry i'm not actually a python developer but hopefully i can push that out to a shell script easily enough
[10:54] <catphish> it has all the parameters i need in that object
[11:10] <lool> james_w: Hey; how do bzr fixes propagate to UDD?  I see bzr was fixed in tip to fix the flash-kernel bug; do we then need a bzr package upload in natty and some action on package-import.ubuntu.com before this gets picked up?  do I need to ask for flash-kernel to be tried again?
[11:16] <spiv> lool: the bzr on package-import.ubuntu.com needs to be updated
[11:16] <lool> spiv: is this a manually installed one, or a .deb from Ubuntu?
[11:17] <spiv> It's a deb, packaged by the admins I think
[11:18] <spiv> Probably an RT asking for it to be updated to tip of lp:bzr/2.3 would be the next step, although perhaps having a tarball release would help, I'm not sure.
[11:19] <spiv> I think it's based on a deb for hardy in one of our PPAs.
[12:42] <jam> jelmer: just a poke that your converter script should be ready to land
[12:43] <jam> spiv: isn't it ~midnight in sydney?
[12:43] <jam> but hi, nonetheless
[12:43] <jelmer> hi John
[12:43] <jelmer> jam: Which converter script?
[12:44] <jam> https://code.launchpad.net/~jelmer/bzr/converter/+merge/51993
[12:44] <jam> Ah, I see it says sent-to-pqm
[12:44] <jelmer> jam: It's already merged :)
[12:44] <jam> did you have some problems recently with that? I thought I saw a patch from you that got about 4 submissions
[12:44] <jam> jelmer: guess it is just lag on LP's part, then.
[12:44] <jam> or, lag on *my* part refreshing the page :)
[12:44] <jelmer> heh :)
[12:45] <jam> would be nice to have Queued to take things out of Approve Ready to Land
[12:45] <jelmer> jam: Are you seeing this in hydrazine?
[12:45] <jelmer> there's a bug in launchpadlib that makes it connect to staging rather than production
[12:45] <jam> jelmer: no, on +activereviews
[12:45] <jelmer> and staging's data is behind on production
[12:45] <jelmer> oh
[12:46] <jelmer> jam: I had some problems with my mail server a week or so ago, so some of my PQM submissions were being blackholed
[12:46] <jam> I haven't had any particular problems with feed-pqm and this
[12:46] <jam> ah
[12:46] <jam> fun
[14:59] <catphish> i seem to be having an odd problem with locks
[14:59] <catphish> when i push i get "Could not acquire lock"
[15:00] <catphish> it seems to be able to get a log but can never release it
[15:00] <catphish> "bzr break-lock" returns bzr: ERROR: No such file: '/data/repos2/19/04af0f-525c-c55a-ec7e-0b7b801b8819/master/.bzr/branch/lock/held'
[15:00] <catphish> which is simply not true
[15:05] <catphish> ah - it only happens on bzr+https
[15:05] <catphish> not plain http
[15:05] <catphish> how odd
[15:06] <catphish> probably another client bug in 2.1.1
[15:38] <sidnei> is there a command in bzr that updates either a bound or unbound branch without bothering about which kind it is?
[15:46] <maxb> um, define update?
[15:46] <maxb> update on an unbound branch means make the working tree version match the branch version
[15:47] <maxb> update on a bound branch involves making the working tree version match the (master) branch version, possibly synchronizing the local mirror of the branch data
[15:48] <maxb> What about 'bzr pull' ? Does that do what you need?
[16:20] <maxb> jam: Hi. Question about loggerhead - what are your plans for the evicted "experimental" branch? Are you going to bring all that lot in in a big merge at some point, or would it be useful to selectively propose merging of some of the feature branches that landed on experimental whilst it was trunk, to the new trunk?
[16:21] <jam> maxb: if you have bits you can selectively propose, that would be great.
[16:21] <jam> I don't really know how to split it apart at this point
[16:22] <maxb> In that case, I think I will fire up qlog, and try to extract some merged feature branches for re-merging
[21:45] <poolie> hello all
[21:59] <jelmer> g'morning poolie
[22:00] <poolie> hi there jelmer, how are you?
[22:00] <jelmer> Doing all right, had a productive day :)
[22:01] <jelmer> sorry I wasn't more awake during the meeting yesterday
[22:02] <jelmer> How's your morning?
[22:10] <poolie> np
[22:10] <poolie> pretty good
[22:10] <poolie> stephane is learning to scuba dive during her holiday, so i dropped her off at a little cove on sydney harbour this morning
[22:10] <poolie> that's a nice way to start the day
[22:11] <poolie> i'd like to actually write some code today after just doing mail and admin and sysadmin stuff yesterday


[09:07] <xnox> RAOF, the PR looks good, I'll cherry-pick and will upload shortly.
[09:07] <xnox> sorry for the delay, was at debconf
[10:08] <xnox> RAOF, this does indicate that you are running tests on trusty kernel, rather than xenial kernel.
[10:08] <xnox> RAOF, and snaps on trusty require hwe (xenial) kernel and subordinate systemd.
[10:09] <xnox> RAOF, why are tests are not executed on xenial kernel? can you at least install hwe kernel on the test nodes?
[23:31] <Guest73093> xnox: We'd need to take it up with IS; those tests are run on the jenkaas environment. We don't have access to the underlying system :)


[01:43] <Etriaph> valorie: Nomination received.
[05:00] <valorie> Etriaph: I figured I better get that done before I leave for a week
[05:00] <valorie> probably no IRC until I return from CT
[05:00] <Etriaph> Probably a good idea :D
[05:00] <Etriaph> Taking a vacation?
[05:01] <valorie> going to see my youngest graduate from college
[05:01] <valorie> didn't get to see them at all last year, so the visit is long overdue
[05:02] <Etriaph> Are you driving or flying cross country?
[05:05] <valorie> oh, flying
[05:05] <valorie> I wish I had time to drive, but not this year
[05:06] <valorie> not while my husband is off hiking for six months
[05:07] <valorie> perhaps when he decides, (and I know he will) to hike the Appalachian Trail
[05:09] <Etriaph> :)
[05:30] <Mirv> Riddell: too late for me at the time of your ping
[06:38] <lordievader> Goodmorning.
[06:52] <soee> good morning
[07:01] <lordievader> Hey soee
[07:07] <sitter> patch parser is broken again
[07:07] <sitter> ...
[07:33] <ovidiu-florin> we ship with python-svn version 1.7.8. Latest is 1.7.10.
[07:33] <ovidiu-florin> if I can't find it here: https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/ubuntu/backports/+packages?field.name_filter=python&field.status_filter=published&field.series_filter=vivid it means we don't have it packaged?
[07:33] <ovidiu-florin> or should I look somewere else?
[07:35] <ovidiu-florin> also http://packages.ubuntu.com/vivid/amd64/python-svn/filelist only adds the libs for python 2.7, they are also for python 3
[07:41] <sitter> we do not maintain python-svn
[09:25] <vip> hello there
[09:25] <vip> any english native speaker here? I need the word for describing somebody, who issues commercial invoice
[09:41] <soee> vip try #english
[09:49] <Riddell> I can't think of a word it's probably just a finance or billing dept in most places
[09:50] <vip> thanks
[11:24] <sgclark> morning
[11:26] <soee> good morning sgclark
[11:54] <sitter> mh
[11:54] <sitter> apparentely I missed UOS
[11:54] <sgclark> haha
[11:54] <sitter> Riddell: you should have rang to remind me :P
[11:54] <sitter> although I was actually already in bed, hadn't had too much sleep the night before
[11:55] <sgclark> me either
[11:55] <sitter> sgclark: the hard hours of CI folk, eh? ^5
[11:55] <sgclark> most everything we went over is in the trello board
[11:55] <sgclark> sitter: yah omg
[11:56] <sgclark> sitter: btw how is docker working for you since the switch to systemd, I can no longer get anything to work
[11:59] <sitter> sgclark: we are running LTS on our servers
[11:59] <sitter> though I haven't noticed any problems on my workspace either
[11:59] <sgclark> ahhh
[11:59] <sgclark> mm
[11:59] <sitter> sgclark: why are you not running 14.04 for the host?
[12:00] <sgclark> because it was my local machine lol
[12:00] <sitter> ah xD
[12:00] <sgclark> gonna have to sort out systemd eventually anyway, will keep trying
[12:01] <sitter> yeah, it doesn't actually start my docker on boot, and I can't be bothered to figure out why xD
[12:02] <sgclark> hehe
[12:03] <ScottK> ovidiu-florin: pysvn is team maintained in Debian.  We can probably get it updated there and it'll sync into Ubuntu (but not today, I'm about to leave).
[12:14] <BluesKaj> Howdy folks
[12:35] <Riddell> "Myriam Schweingruber (myriam) renewed their own membership in the Kubuntu Members (kubuntu-members) team until 2016-05-12" yay Mamarok still loves us!
[12:39] <seaLne> the lwn subscription keeps them coming back ;-)
[12:41] <shadeslayer> :D
[12:46] <Mamarok> Riddell: very unlikely I will ever stop loving you folks :)
[12:47] <Mamarok> remember: I use Kubuntu since its existence
[13:31] <Riddell> Sick_Rimmit: ovidiu-florin 151 views, not bad https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFwAAjutC_0
[13:32] <Riddell> mparillo: maybe a wire post with that video embedded and linked? ↑
[13:34] <Darkwing> Sorry I missed the session last night, was it recorded anywhere?
[13:37] <Riddell> Darkwing: kickoff meeting at http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1505/meeting/22508/kubuntu-kickoff/ but that video will be super boring it's just us going over the trello items, you'd be better off just looking at the 15.10 trello board
[13:37] <Riddell> and plasma 5 demo at http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1505/meeting/22517/plasma-5-demo/
[13:37] <Darkwing> Lol okay.
[13:39] <Darkwing> I'm sticking with Kubuntu 15.04 for its hidpi support.
[13:40] <Darkwing> As far as I understand the uniformed scaling (fonts and icons) this is a X11 issue more than a qt/plasma/KDE one.
[13:44] <Riddell> Darkwing: Plasma 5.3 has some hidpi support, next august applications and plasma releases will be perfect or at least so david says
[13:45] <Darkwing> As long as we keep in mind that there are varying levels for scale.
[13:45] <Darkwing> Gnome messed up with the "just double everything"
[13:45] <Riddell> qt is much better than that
[13:46] <Darkwing> Unity is honestly currently the best with support.
[13:46] <Darkwing> But, it's bloody ugly compared to kde
[13:48] <Riddell> :)
[13:52] <shadeslayer> Riddell: till i get a 4K display
[13:52] <shadeslayer> and then everything will be screwed again :p
[14:22] <mparillo> Riddell: On it. Good work Sick_Rimmit and ovidiu-florin.
[14:34] <genii> I'm curious if this new thing of holding videoconference meetings with the public invited to watch will become a regular thing.
[14:36] <sitter> hm? it's been a thing for years
[14:38] <genii> sitter: Yesterday was the first I became aware of it, then. I like the idea, helps people to understand what's being done by who, what kind of constraints they are under like workload or school, etc, and puts faces to the names.
[14:39]  * ricktimmis Doh! must of left Sick_Rimmit logged in at home
[14:39] <sitter> ghost him!
[14:40]  * sitter never actually ghosted an actually connected client
[14:40] <sitter> genii: we just didn't do it as we had mumble calls on a different schedule
[14:41]  * genii makes more coffee and contemplates
[14:42] <ricktimmis> This is my new shiny install of 15.04 Vivid, for my work machine, I traded in my Plasma 5 Tech Preview
[14:42]  * ricktimmis is happy boy!!
[14:42] <sitter> \o/
[14:45] <sitter> kubotu: order tea
[14:45]  * kubotu gives sitter a nice hot cup of tea.
[14:45] <sitter> mh
[14:45] <sitter> kubotu: not that kind
[14:45]  * sitter smacks kubotu
[14:47] <sitter> http://i.imgur.com/92Esu5Y.jpg ovidiu-florinception that is ^^
[16:18] <ovidiu-florin> Riddell: 273 views now :D
[16:18] <ovidiu-florin> Riddell: I'll write a post for my blog this evening, maybe it can be used for wire
[16:34] <genii> I hope whoever is supposed to "find out what the hell snappy is"  is watching the uos feed :)
[16:37] <BluesKaj> genii, yeah, I found the explanation understandable, but how it's going to be implemented is confusing
[16:38] <genii> Yes, not like PPA
[16:40] <BluesKaj> or a repos
[16:40] <BluesKaj> a proper repository that is
[16:41] <Riddell> hi ranveeraggarwal, ready to learn some packaging?
[16:42] <ranveeraggarwal> Riddell: sure
[16:42] <Riddell> ranveeraggarwal: ssh<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[16:42] <Riddell> ranveeraggarwal:  in mnt
[16:43] <Riddell> make a directory called current
[16:43] <Riddell> and another one called new
[16:43] <Riddell> ranveeraggarwal: in ~/mnt
[16:43] <Riddell> (which is just the large hard disk you get along with an ec2)
[16:44] <ranveeraggarwal> Riddell: done
[16:44] <Riddell> ranveeraggarwal: in current  use  apt-get source packagekit
[16:44] <Riddell> to download the current stuff
[16:44] <Riddell> and check on https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/packagekit-qt that it really is the latest
[16:45] <Riddell> ranveeraggarwal: now just to complicate life I see Debian has a newer version and we have diverged from them somewhat https://packages.debian.org/src:packagekit
[16:45] <Riddell> for simplicity we'll ignore it for now
[16:45] <Riddell> but maybe it we get problems we'll need to merge in debian's changes
[16:45] <Riddell> ranveeraggarwal: in the new/ directory download the latest upstream tar
[16:46] <ranveeraggarwal> I see. Debian indeed has newer versions of both packagekit and packagekit-qt
[16:47] <Riddell> ranveeraggarwal: but there's changes in ubuntu so we can't just take the debian version alas
[16:48] <Riddell> ranveeraggarwal: with tar you can miss out the J compression method, it'll work it out when uncompressing these days
[16:48] <Riddell> ranveeraggarwal: rename the tar file to follow the same pattern as the one in the current/ directory
[16:48] <ranveeraggarwal> Alright
[16:50] <ranveeraggarwal> Riddell: What pattern?
[16:50] <Riddell> ranveeraggarwal: I should have explained, you'll see in the current/ directory the current source "package" which is made up of 3 files, .orig.tar, debian.tar and .dsc
[16:50] <Riddell> the .orig.tar is the upstream source
[16:50] <Riddell> the debian.tar has the files that describe how to make the package
[16:50] <Riddell> and the .dsc is some metadata with checksums etc
[16:51] <Riddell> packagekit_0.8.17.orig.tar.xz is the pattern needed for the name
[16:51] <Riddell> lowercase underscore .orig
[16:51] <ranveeraggarwal> okay, got it
[16:51] <Riddell> just a rename from upstream's naming format for the file
[16:52] <Riddell> ranveeraggarwal: mv the PackageKit-1.0.6.tar.xz file not the directory
[16:52] <Riddell> too late! :)
[16:52] <ranveeraggarwal> Ah! My bad
[16:52] <Riddell> oh now you messed up :)
[16:52] <Riddell> rm -r and start again
[16:52] <ranveeraggarwal> Alrighty
[16:55] <ranveeraggarwal> Riddell: Is is fine now?
[16:55] <Riddell> ranveeraggarwal: lovely, now inside that source directory copy the debian/ directory from the current package
[16:56] <Riddell> that debian.tar contains a debian/ directory with some files that get extracted into the source
[16:56] <Riddell> so uncompress it and mv the debian/ directory into the sources
[16:57] <Riddell> this is a pretty complex package :(
[16:57] <Riddell> lovely
[16:57] <Riddell> cd into the sources
[16:57] <Riddell> ranveeraggarwal: which editor do you like?
[16:57] <ranveeraggarwal> Riddell: I generally use sublime text, but I'm fine vim
[16:58] <Riddell> yep we have that installed
[16:58] <Riddell> export EDITOR=vim
[16:58] <Riddell> and run  dch -i  and it'll open an editor with a changelog template to add
[16:59] <Riddell> ranveeraggarwal: change the version number on the first line to the right one
[16:59] <Riddell> with -0ubuntu1 on the end
[16:59] <Riddell> add a 1 line description of what's changed
[16:59] <Riddell> and fix the name and e-mail
[17:00] <Riddell> ranveeraggarwal:  1.0.0 -> 1.0.6
[17:00] <Riddell> uh oh what happened!?
[17:01] <ranveeraggarwal> I think I pressed a wrong key. Just undo-ed it
[17:01] <Riddell> phew :)
[17:01] <Riddell> fix name and e-mail
[17:01] <ranveeraggarwal> Do I put mine in there?
[17:02] <Riddell> yep
[17:02] <Riddell> lovely save and quit
[17:03] <Riddell> ranveeraggarwal: check that debian/changelog has updated
[17:03] <Riddell> looks good
[17:03] <ranveeraggarwal> Yep
[17:03] <Riddell> have a look in debian/ and see what's in there
[17:04] <Riddell> so aye, a complex package
[17:04] <Riddell> the .install files list the files that will go into each .deb that gets made
[17:04] <Riddell> rules is a makefile to describe how to compile the package
[17:04] <ranveeraggarwal> So is there someplace I can gt to know what all those files do?
[17:05] <Riddell> and control is the list of .debs that get made
[17:05] <Riddell> lots of places, none of them great
[17:05] <Riddell> https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/
[17:05] <Riddell> https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/dreq.en.html for example
[17:05] <Riddell> the patches/ directory will contain patches that we add to the upstream source
[17:06] <Riddell> any questions?
[17:07] <ranveeraggarwal> Well, I get the high level overview, I'll explore the debian/ folder deeper later
[17:08] <ranveeraggarwal> Riddell: What's next?
[17:08] <Riddell> we need to work out what patches are still useful
[17:09] <Riddell> we use a tool called quilt to manage the patches
[17:09] <Riddell> look in patches/ to see what's there
[17:09] <Riddell> and from the top source directory run  quilt push to see if the first one applies
[17:10] <Riddell> yay, 1 down :)
[17:10] <Riddell> do it again
[17:10] <Riddell> oh well
[17:10] <Riddell> it couldn't last
[17:10] <Riddell> let me have a look
[17:10] <ranveeraggarwal> Riddell: What exactly is happening there? Where are we pushing the patches to?
[17:11] <Riddell> ranveeraggarwal: they're patches to the source from the upstream tar
[17:11] <Riddell> e.g. this one wants to edit the /etc/packagekit.conf file
[17:11] <Riddell> but it doesn't seem to exist in this new version
[17:11] <Riddell> quilt push just applies them to the source
[17:12] <ranveeraggarwal> Oh, so that means, that patch got lost somewhere in between v0.8.17 and v1.0.6. Is that so?
[17:12] <Riddell> the file that patch applies to got lost
[17:12] <Riddell> so for now lets just remove the patch
[17:13] <Riddell> edit debian/patches/series and comment out the line with the patch name in it
[17:14] <ranveeraggarwal> Do I just put a `//` in front of defaults.diff?
[17:14] <Riddell> ranveeraggarwal: a #
[17:14] <Riddell> ranveeraggarwal: quilt push
[17:15] <Riddell> oh live is cruel
[17:15] <Riddell> this is why patches are evil
[17:20] <Riddell> ranveeraggarwal: ok so I forced it to apply then I edited the file based on installing the current one and working out what the patch it supposed to do
[17:20] <Riddell> ranveeraggarwal: this is only for a PPA and not the real archive or I'd take more care but hopefully I got it right
[17:20] <Riddell> ranveeraggarwal: ok  quilt push again
[17:21] <Riddell> "Patch debian/patches/01_changelog-url.patch can be reverse-applied" so that's gone upstream
[17:21] <Riddell> ranveeraggarwal: comment it out in the series file
[17:22] <Riddell> push push
[17:22] <Riddell> ranveeraggarwal: another upstreamed, comment it out
[17:23] <Riddell> push!
[17:23] <Riddell> ranveeraggarwal: another upstreamed, comment it out
[17:24] <Riddell> meh
[17:24] <Riddell> ranveeraggarwal: yep looks like that got upstream although not exactly the same so comment that out too
[17:24] <ranveeraggarwal> Alright
[17:25] <Riddell> comment it out
[17:26] <Riddell> groovy comment that out too
[17:26] <ranveeraggarwal> Damn that latency. I need to get a better internet connection
[17:26] <ranveeraggarwal> Looks like it worked out :)
[17:27] <Riddell> the ec2 is in the US, they can probably be set up somewhere closer to you
[17:27] <Riddell> ranveeraggarwal: ok let's see if it compiles
[17:27] <Riddell> debuild -j2  is the magic command to make the package
[17:27] <Riddell> -j2 because we have 2 cores on this machine
[17:28] <Riddell> needs some build-depends packages installed
[17:28] <Riddell> the command to work out what they are is  /usr/lib/pbuilder/pbuilder-sat<tab>
[17:28] <Riddell> it has a silly long name
[17:28] <Riddell> use sudo i think
[17:29] <ranveeraggarwal> What does this do?
[17:30] <Riddell> ranveeraggarwal: all packages will need other stuff installed to be compiled, those are listed in debian/control
[17:30] <Riddell> and this just installs that list of packages
[17:31] <Riddell> groovy, debuild -j2 again
[17:31] <ranveeraggarwal> Riddell: ah! Alright
[17:32] <Riddell> ranveeraggarwal:  groovy, debuild -j2 again
[17:33] <ranveeraggarwal> The previous command still executing here
[17:33] <Riddell> ranveeraggarwal: no it's done
[17:34] <ranveeraggarwal> Riddell: I think it's taking time to std-out to my terminal
[17:34] <Riddell> ranveeraggarwal: has the connection dropped?  can you type stuff in the terminal?
[17:35] <ranveeraggarwal> Riddell: Yes, that's it. I'm on a relatively slower internet this week. So even though the process has completed, it's still throwing all its verbose out
[17:35] <Riddell> ranveeraggarwal: just start a new konsole and ssh in again<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[17:36] <ranveeraggarwal> Riddell: Yep, that was the issue, it seems :)
[17:37] <Riddell> groovy, it's compiling
[17:38] <Riddell> ranveeraggarwal: looks like it all compiled
[17:38] <Riddell> not it's trying to move the files into place for each of the .deb
[17:38] <Riddell> which is done by the comment dh_install
[17:39] <ranveeraggarwal> It shows some error
[17:39] <Riddell> dh_install: cp -a debian/tmp/etc/PackageKit/events/ debian/packagekit//etc/PackageKit/ returne│···················································································································
[17:39] <Riddell> d exit code 1
[17:39] <Riddell> dh_install: cp -a debian/tmp/etc/PackageKit/events/ debian/packagekit//etc/PackageKit/ returned exit code 1
[17:40] <Riddell> so it's trying to move the etc/PackageKit/events/ directory into place for the packagekit .deb
[17:40] <Riddell> but that directory doesn't exist any more
[17:40] <Riddell> so edit debian/packagekit.install and remove the line that lists it
[17:40] <Riddell> 3rd line
[17:41] <ranveeraggarwal> What do I put in place of it?
[17:41] <ranveeraggarwal> Alright, simply remove
[17:41] <Riddell> just remove
[17:41] <Riddell> now run   dh_install --list-missing
[17:41] <Riddell> to see where it breaks now
[17:42] <ranveeraggarwal> Riddell: Do I remove that line too?
[17:42] <Riddell> yep
[17:44] <ranveeraggarwal> Riddell: What now?
[17:44] <Riddell> ranveeraggarwal: did you remove the next one?
[17:44] <Riddell> if so run dh_install --list-missing again
[17:45] <ranveeraggarwal> Same issue
[17:45] <Riddell> you're getting the hang of this :)
[17:46] <ranveeraggarwal> Riddell: Sort of :)
[17:48] <ranveeraggarwal> Riddell : <>/pk-debuginfo-install isn't present in the .install file
[17:49] <Riddell> ranveeraggarwal: "debian/packagekit-tools" it's copying into that other .deb
[17:49] <Riddell> so open packagekit-tools.install and edit there
[17:55] <ranveeraggarwal> Riddell: What's the issue now?
[17:56] <Riddell> ranveeraggarwal: lovely, so now we have the opposite problem, new files and we need to work out which .deb to put them instal
[17:56] <Riddell> ranveeraggarwal: looking at the newer version from debian those files both go into debian/packagekit.install
[17:57] <Riddell> so add them there
[17:58] <ranveeraggarwal> Riddell: Success!
[17:58] <Riddell> lovely
[17:58] <Riddell> ranveeraggarwal: debuild -nc
[17:58] <Riddell> will carry on the build  with  no-clear so it doesn't all compile again
[17:59] <Riddell> you don't really need the -j2 here, that's only useful for the compile stage which has already been done
[17:59] <ranveeraggarwal> Riddell: Oh alright
[17:59] <Riddell> hmm some scary warnings about unresolvable symbole there
[18:00] <Riddell> it's done!
[18:00] <Riddell> so you should now have a bunch of .deb packages in the directory above ..
[18:00] <ranveeraggarwal> Riddell: Yep!
[18:01] <Riddell> on your launchpad page https://launchpad.net/~ranveeraggarwal  click create a PPA
[18:01] <Riddell> and fill in the form
[18:01] <Riddell> then we can upload this to the PPA
[18:02] <ranveeraggarwal> Riddell: Done
[18:02] <Riddell> ranveeraggarwal: do you have gpg keys?
[18:02] <ranveeraggarwal> Riddell: Nope, what are those?
[18:03] <Riddell> gpg keys are ecryption keys for pgp encryption and signing
[18:03] <Riddell> packages needs to be signed so that launchpad knows they come from you when you upload them
[18:04] <ranveeraggarwal> Oh, so do I create one on my local machine?
[18:05] <Riddell> ranveeraggarwal: yep
[18:05] <Riddell> gpg --gen-key
[18:05] <Riddell> and follow the defaults
[18:05] <Riddell> like I just did on the ec2 server
[18:10] <ranveeraggarwal> Alright, key generated. What to do now?
[18:11] <Riddell> see step 12 https://help.launchpad.net/YourAccount/ImportingYourPGPKey#Importing_your_key_into_Launchpad_with_gpg
[18:11] <Riddell> just above that
[18:11] <Riddell> that'll send it to the keyserver
[18:12] <Riddell> it will have made files in ~/.gnupg and just like ssh there's a public part you can spread around and a private part you can never let anyone access
[18:12] <Riddell> so don't put it on this shared ec2 for example
[18:16] <Riddell> ranveeraggarwal: I need to leave shortly so I've made the source package with  debuild -S  and signed it from my computer with  debsign<EMAIL_ADDRESS>-r ubuntu@ec2-54-166-50-80.compute-1.amazonaws.com:mnt/new/packagekit_1.0.6-0ubuntu1~ubuntu15.04~ppa1_source.changes
[18:16] <Riddell> and uploaded it to my ppa with   dput -u ppa:jr/ppa packagekit_1.0.6-0ubuntu1~ubuntu15.04~ppa1_source.changes
[18:17] <Riddell> you can try and do the same
[18:18] <ranveeraggarwal> Riddell: Alright, I'm mostly done. Just waiting for the Email verification
[18:33] <sick_rimmit> Ello me lovelies :-)
[18:37] <ranveeraggarwal> Riddell: I signed it, but it says it has already been uploaded to ppa
[18:47] <ahoneybun> sick_rimmit: rick?
[18:48] <sick_rimmit> ahoneybun: Hey
[18:48] <sick_rimmit> ahoneybun: Yes thats me
[18:48] <ahoneybun> pretty crazy yesterday lol
[18:54] <Etriaph> ScottK: I was having the issue with Dolphin regarding places, and I'm trying to install kde-baseapps from vivid-proposed, but it doesn't seem to be one of the packages I can update.
[18:54] <Etriaph> ScottK: Riddell sent me a link to it suggesting that I try out the proposed package, just looking for some direction
[18:55] <BluesKaj> dolphin places doen't accept added folders either network or others ..so far at least
[18:56] <Etriaph> BluesKaj: Someone has fixed this upstream, the bug on bko is resolved
[18:56] <sick_rimmit> ahoneybun: Hey it was fun, and I think we made a jolly good show of it :-)
[18:57] <Etriaph> sick_rimmit: ahoneybun, I would love to see some use cases for productivity put forward as some interactive web seminars.
[18:58] <sick_rimmit> Etriaph: Funny you should mention that, I'm just working on the very medium for said thing
[18:58] <Etriaph> sick_rimmit: Excellent.  Any chance I can put forward a couple of topics I think would draw people to the community?
[19:00] <sick_rimmit> Etriaph: Absolutely!! That would be Ace! - Can you hold them on ice for a few days, whilst I get all the stuff setup, then you'll have a place to post them.
[19:01] <Etriaph> sick_rimmit: Yup, just let me know when you're ready.  :D
[19:01] <Etriaph> BluesKaj: https://bugs.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/1422469 is the bug I was talking about (lp version)
[19:02] <sick_rimmit> Etriaph: Perfect, I will announce here, there and everywhere. But I will make sure you know
[19:02] <Etriaph> BluesKaj: There's a patch, but I can't get it in proposed.
[19:02] <Etriaph> sick_rimmit: I'll query my email if you don't mind.
[19:03] <sick_rimmit> Etriaph: Sure, I will post it the mailing list
[19:03] <Etriaph> sick_rimmit: Or if you're tossing it in kubuntu-devel list I'll wait on that.
[19:03] <Etriaph> Perfect :D
[19:03] <BluesKaj> Etriaph, thanks, think I'll wait ...proposed is bit dangerous
[19:04] <Etriaph> BluesKaj: Yes, which is why I haven't updated anything, but kde-baseapps was supposed to have an update in there (according to the notes on the bug) but doesn't, just a bit confused based on ScottK's note
[19:06] <BluesKaj> Etriaph, np, I'm on early days here on 15,10 Wily and my backup OS is 15.04 on a different HDD, so there' no big hurry
[19:06] <yofel> Etriaph: vivid proposed has kde-baseapps 4:14.12.3-0ubuntu3.1, what do you have?
[19:07] <Etriaph> yofel: Nothing as far as I can see from the updates available.
[19:07] <yofel> mirror might be out of date then
[19:07] <Etriaph> kde-baseapps isn't included
[19:07] <Etriaph> Ah, OK
[19:38] <soee> hiho
[19:40] <Etriaph> Hey soee
[19:58] <ovidiu-florin> sick_rimmit: are you here?
[19:58] <ovidiu-florin> Riddell: are you here?
[20:08] <debfx> Sput: is there a particular reason why quassel exchanges its build date in the handshake?
[20:09] <Etriaph> Riddell is away until next week sometime.
[20:09] <Etriaph> So is valorie
[20:11] <sick_rimmit> ovidiu-florin: Yes, just back from Fish n Chip shop
[20:18] <aaron__> o/ prth
[20:20] <prth> ahoneybun, \o
[20:24] <Sput> debfx: I think purely for the core info dialog
[20:25] <Etriaph> Who manages Kubuntu Wire?
[20:26] <Etriaph> http://wire.kubuntu.org/?p=319&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter left a comment regarding no annotation for ahoneybun being in the video.
[20:27] <ahoneybun> thanks Etriaph
[20:27] <Etriaph> ahoneybun: Going to try to get them to change it though if I can find who manages it :D
[20:27]  * ahoneybun thinks Riddell
[20:28] <ahoneybun> at least have access
[20:28] <Etriaph> Marco Parillo?
[20:28] <Etriaph> He posted it I think
[20:29] <yofel> mparillo: ^
[20:29] <Etriaph> mparillo: http://wire.kubuntu.org/?p=319&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter can you update this with ahoneybun added to the list of presenters in the video?
[20:29] <debfx> Sput: are you strongly attached to that feature? :)  embedding the build timestamp it makes it impossible to create reproducible builds
[20:31] <yofel> how about making that local-build-only? Unless you compile yourself that's really not of much value
[20:31] <sick_rimmit> mparillo: If you do edit it could you change my name to Rick Timmis - my realname
[20:31] <sick_rimmit> Thank
[20:32] <Sput> debfx: not necessarily
[20:32] <Sput> debfx: however changing this in the current protocol might be annoying
[20:34] <debfx> Sput: for compatibility new clients could just send a dummy date
[20:43] <ovidiu-florin> sick_rimmit: I'm searching for a verb in english
[20:43] <sick_rimmit> ovidiu-florin: Hi
[20:43] <ovidiu-florin> how do you call what you did yesterday at the session?
[20:44] <sick_rimmit> ovidiu-florin: I was the "Show Host"
[20:44] <ovidiu-florin> can you put that in a verb?
[20:44] <sick_rimmit> ovidiu-florin: In US they call this the Anchor
[20:44] <BluesKaj> presenter ?
[20:44] <ovidiu-florin> the session was (verb) by Rick
[20:44] <sick_rimmit> Hosted
[20:45] <sick_rimmit> the session was hosted by Rick
[20:45] <Etriaph> Who would be the best person to talk to regarding xdg issues?
[20:45] <ovidiu-florin> that work makes me think that only Rick was part of that presentation
[20:45] <ovidiu-florin> word*
[20:45] <Etriaph> (Trying to support a user on the mailing list)
[20:45] <sick_rimmit> OK try this
[20:46] <sick_rimmit> Plasma 5 demo Hangout hosted by Rick, with co presenters Aaron and Ovidiu
[20:46] <sick_rimmit> Or ...
[20:47] <sick_rimmit> hosted by kubuntu members Aaron, Ovidiu, and Rick
[20:48] <ovidiu-florin> sick_rimmit: this is my sentence: "The session was (verb) by Rick, who made sure we keep on track and don't exceed our allocated time frame."
[20:48] <ovidiu-florin> s/keep/kept
[20:48] <sick_rimmit> Ah ok...
[20:48] <sick_rimmit> chaired
[20:49] <ovidiu-florin> I think that's the verb I'm looking for
[20:49] <sick_rimmit> The noun is Chairman
[20:49] <sick_rimmit> the verb is Chaired
[20:49] <ovidiu-florin> ok, thank you
[20:49] <sick_rimmit> Adjective Chairing
[20:50] <mparillo> I will add ahoneybun and change to  Rick Timmis
[20:50] <ahoneybun> thanks mparillo
[20:50] <Etriaph> Chaired is past-tense, can it be a verb?
[20:50] <sick_rimmit> mparillo: Oh thank you thats excellent
[20:50] <ovidiu-florin> what are you talking about?
[20:50] <sick_rimmit> Or you could say
[20:51] <sick_rimmit> Nah.. leave it, indeed the written piece is referring the the past, so the tense is correct
[20:51] <Etriaph> Fun with grammar :D
[20:51] <Etriaph> bbiab
[20:53] <ovidiu-florin> I'll ask for your feedback in a moment
[20:53] <mparillo> ahoneybun: Do you prefer your nick?
[20:54] <ahoneybun> um... name would be more professional maybe 'Aaron Honeycutt (ahoneybun)" ?
[20:55] <mparillo> Done. Sorry to have omitted you.
[20:55] <ahoneybun> mparillo: its no problem :)
[20:55] <sick_rimmit> ovidiu-florin: Your GMT+2 right ?
[20:55] <ovidiu-florin> sometimes
[20:55] <ovidiu-florin> sometimes I'm +3
[20:55] <ovidiu-florin> I'm confused about that
[20:56] <sick_rimmit> ahoneybun: What time are you relative to GMT please ?
[20:56] <ahoneybun> um not sure
[20:56] <ahoneybun> I'm in New York timezone
[20:56] <sick_rimmit> OK what about UTC
[20:56] <ovidiu-florin> UTC+3 now
[20:56] <ovidiu-florin> sick_rimmit: I meant UTC, I have no idea about GMT
[20:57] <ahoneybun> UTC-4
[20:57] <ahoneybun> everytimezone.com
[20:57] <sick_rimmit> Great, I like UTC, or Swatch @beats
[20:58] <sick_rimmit> There's a surprise coming to you boys in a few minutes
[20:58] <ovidiu-florin> where and from where?
[21:00]  * ahoneybun is scared
[21:00] <ovidiu-florin> I'm searching for a featured image for my blog post, any recomendations?
[21:01] <ahoneybun> maybe the 15.04 mascot logo?
[21:01] <ahoneybun> ovidiu-florin:
[21:01] <ovidiu-florin> we have one???//
[21:02] <ovidiu-florin> for kubuntu?
[21:02] <ahoneybun> well not at the moment
[21:02] <ahoneybun> I have some svg files for the new mascot
[21:02] <ahoneybun> I can change the color to blue maybe
[21:03] <Riddell> hi ovidiu-florin
[21:03] <ovidiu-florin> ahoneybun: can you show it to me? like it is now
[21:04] <ahoneybun> ovidiu-florin: I sent you a link to my gdrive that has the files
[21:06] <ahoneybun> you can give me the size you need as well if you wish
[21:06] <ahoneybun> ovidiu-florin: ^
[21:08] <ovidiu-florin> ahoneybun: no
[21:08] <ahoneybun> ?
[21:10] <sick_rimmit> ovidiu-florin: ahoneybun You ready :-)
[21:10]  * ovidiu-florin is terrified
[21:10] <ahoneybun> sick_rimmit: never are
[21:11]  * ovidiu-florin is listening to his horrible english from the presentation from yesterday
[21:13] <sick_rimmit> ovidiu-florin: You're being very silly, your English is excellent, better than some English folks
[21:13] <ovidiu-florin> yeah... I've said: "here is the elements".....
[21:13] <ovidiu-florin> I was thinking of list of elements....
[21:13] <ovidiu-florin> but the wrong thing came out
[21:14]  * Etriaph is a very good writer, if you're looking for someone to proofread
[21:14] <ovidiu-florin> Etriaph: yes
[21:14] <ovidiu-florin> in a monent
[21:15] <ahoneybun> ovidiu-florin: nerves, not bad english
[21:18] <ovidiu-florin> Riddell sick_rimmit Etriaph ahoneybun proofread please: http://ovidiu.geekaliens.com/en/2015/05/07/plasma-5-and-kf5-demo-at-uos-2015/
[21:19] <ahoneybun> ovidiu-florin: https://imgur.com/ypWB62j
[21:19] <Etriaph> ovidiu-florin: "didn't exceed"
[21:19] <Etriaph> 3rd para
[21:19] <ovidiu-florin> ahoneybun: that looks like a devil, I don't like it, sorry
[21:20] <sick_rimmit> ovidiu-florin: The session was chaired by Rick, who made sure we kept on track and don’t exceed  <-  Change don't for didn't ( means did not )
[21:20] <ovidiu-florin> Etriaph: thanks
[21:21] <sick_rimmit> Sorry I didn't see Etriaph already got that
[21:21] <sick_rimmit> Thanks
[21:21] <ovidiu-florin> just changed that, not published yet
[21:21] <Etriaph> "After that I’ve started talking about what is KDE" should be "After describing what KDE is"
[21:22] <ovidiu-florin> Etriaph: I dissagree
[21:22] <Etriaph> "a bit of how it is organized" -> "a bit about how it is organized"
[21:22] <ovidiu-florin> I'm reffering to the fact that after the introduction I've started my presentation
[21:22] <Etriaph> ovidiu-florin: It's gramatically incorrect, I'm adjusting it :D
 "After that I’ve started talking about what is KDE" should be "After describing what KDE is", the 2 reffer to two different times
[21:23] <sick_rimmit> ovidiu-florin: ahoneybun Check your G+
[21:23] <Etriaph> "After that I’ve started talking about what is KDE, what it consists of, a bit of how it is organized and the migration from KDE SC 4 to KDE Frameworks 5." -> "After that, we discussed what KDE is, what it consists of and a bit about how it is organized followed by the migration from KDE SC 4 to KDE Frameworks 5"
[21:24] <Etriaph> That's how I would have phrased that paragraph.
[21:25] <ovidiu-florin> sick_rimmit: when is that? it show's me that it will be 2 hours ago
[21:25] <ovidiu-florin> Etriaph: I agree, but it wasn't a discussion, it was a presentation
[21:25] <sick_rimmit> Ah no
[21:25] <sick_rimmit> It's set for June 3rd
[21:26] <sick_rimmit> More G+ stuff coming your way
[21:26] <ovidiu-florin> sick_rimmit: are you reffering to : https://plus.google.com/events/cvh050dbgcdjrhbdn3g0us999bc
[21:26] <ovidiu-florin> ?
[21:26] <Etriaph> ovidiu-florin: Change the we to I, but the rest of the sentence is still the best grammatical format.
[21:26] <ahoneybun> I see nothing on G+
[21:27] <sick_rimmit> Check out who just added you to the circle
[21:27] <sick_rimmit> Ah no https://plus.google.com/u/0/b/112102796730023795852/112102796730023795852/posts
[21:27] <ovidiu-florin> Etriaph: how about: "After that, I talked about what KDE is, what it consists of and a bit about how it is organized followed by the migration from KDE SC 4 to KDE Frameworks 5"?
[21:28] <ovidiu-florin> iI've*****
[21:28] <ahoneybun> I see
[21:28] <Etriaph> "After the presentation, I had a short chat with Rick with respect to planning some screencasts and to go more in depth with these applications as a continuation of my Screencast series (of which I’ll talk about in a future blog post)."
[21:28] <Etriaph> ovidiu-florin: Yup, that works
[21:28] <ovidiu-florin> sick_rimmit: I love it :D
[21:28] <Etriaph> Oops, omit the "and" after "screencasts"
[21:30] <Etriaph> Or.. no "I had a short chat with Rick regarding additional screencasts to dig deeper into these applications as a continuation of my Screencast series"
[21:31] <sick_rimmit> \o/ Woo Hoo
[21:31] <sick_rimmit> Glad you like it ovidiu-florin
[21:31] <ScottK> Etriaph: See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/EnableProposed and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/PerformingSRUVerification
[21:33] <ovidiu-florin> sick_rimmit: I can't do 3rd of june
[21:33] <ovidiu-florin> I'm traveling
[21:34] <ovidiu-florin> I'll be back on the 8th
[21:34] <ahoneybun> I'll be here
[21:34] <sick_rimmit> ovidiu-florin: Can you do 10th June ?
[21:34] <Etriaph> ScottK: I enabled it, there was no update for kde-baseapps
[21:34] <ovidiu-florin> sure
[21:35] <Etriaph> ScottK: I enabled it in Muon Discover, fyi
[21:35] <ahoneybun> +1
[21:35] <ovidiu-florin> Etriaph: anything else?
[21:35] <ahoneybun> sick_rimmit: ^
[21:35] <Etriaph> ovidiu-florin: FYI, the rest is excellent.
[21:35] <ovidiu-florin> thank you
[21:36] <ScottK> Etriaph: It exists:  kde-baseapps | 4:14.12.3-0ubuntu3.1 | vivid-proposed/universe | source, all
[21:36] <ovidiu-florin> Etriaph ahoneybun sick_rimmit, now, let's translate it into romanian :D:D
[21:36] <sick_rimmit> ahoneybun: Can you make 10 June
[21:36] <Etriaph> ScottK: OK, let me try this again.
[21:36] <ovidiu-florin> sick_rimmit: on which youtube channel will this be hosted?
[21:36] <ahoneybun> sick_rimmit: +1
[21:37] <sick_rimmit> It has its own
[21:37] <ovidiu-florin> sick_rimmit: link please
[21:40] <ahoneybun> sick_rimmit: I do have control of the Kubuntu Promo account on G+
[21:40] <Etriaph> ScottK:  kde-baseapps : Depends: konqueror (>= 4:14.12.3-0ubuntu3.1) but it is not going to be installed
[21:41] <ScottK> What happens if you try to install konqueror directly?
[21:41] <Etriaph> ovidiu-florin: You lost me at Romanian
[21:41] <Etriaph> ScottK: I tried installing it with kde-baseapps
[21:41] <ovidiu-florin> :D
[21:41] <ScottK> I know.  Try installing it by itself.
[21:41] <Etriaph> sudo apt-get install konqueror/vivid-proposed kde-baseapps/vivid-proposed
[21:41] <Etriaph> OK, one sec.
[21:42] <ovidiu-florin> sick_rimmit: if the account is not created yet, please let me create it
[21:43] <ahoneybun> wait you made a IRC channel too sick_rimmit?
[21:43] <sick_rimmit> ovidiu-florin: All done
[21:43] <sick_rimmit> Yes come say hi
[21:43] <ahoneybun> damn
[21:43] <sick_rimmit> #kubuntu-podcast
[21:43] <Etriaph> ScottK: OK, seems to have installed, let me see how it goes.
[21:50] <Etriaph> That was interesting.
[21:50] <Etriaph> During the install plasma crashed.
[21:51] <debfx> Sput: I've posted https://github.com/quassel/quassel/pull/127
[21:51] <debfx> looks like it's very controversial ^^
[21:52] <Sput> I wonder if this should maybe a compile-time option exclusively for Debian
[21:54] <Sput> (or maybe just a Debian patch)
[21:57] <Etriaph> ScottK: Now on 4:15.04.0-0ubuntu1~ubuntu15.04~ppa1 for kde-base-apps
[21:57] <Etriaph> err... kde-baseapps
[21:57] <ScottK> That's not the right version.
[21:57] <Etriaph> Hrm.
[21:58] <ScottK> Etriaph: You need to remove the PPA packages.
[21:58] <debfx> reproducible builds is not something only Debian is interested in
[21:59] <ScottK> That's why you can't upgrade to proposes.
[21:59] <ScottK> Sput: reproducible builds is a really good idea.  Eventually, I think it'll be a foundational security concept.
[22:01] <Etriaph> ScottK: So I have to remove everything that the proposed repo intends to provide?
[22:01]  * Etriaph hasn't done any formal testing with Ubuntu before.
[22:03]  * ahoneybun is going into Ubuntu Membership Board member mode
[22:49] <ScottK> Etriaph: The PPAs have a newer version than is in Ubuntu proper, so an update to the proposed packages is considered a downgrade on your system.  That's why it wasn't working before.
[22:49] <ScottK> PPAs and the proposed repos serve different purposes.
[22:49] <Etriaph> ScottK: Ah, OK
[22:49] <Etriaph> So this is something better tested in a VM?
[22:53] <Etriaph> ScottK: I would assume there's potential for system instability if I downgraded to those packages?
[22:53] <ScottK> Potentially.
[22:53] <ScottK> There are no guarantees, but I think it'd be low risk.
[22:54] <Etriaph> ScottK: How do I mass downgrade to the proposed?
[22:54] <Etriaph> ScottK: I'm assuming there are deps for kde-baseapps
[22:54] <ScottK> There's a ppa-purge command.
[22:55] <ScottK> You have to install the package though.
[22:55] <Etriaph> I have it.
[22:55] <Etriaph> ScottK: What am I purging?
[22:55] <ScottK> Anything that was installed via a PPA.
[22:57] <Etriaph> So including anything from vivid-backports, vivid-updates?
[23:16] <Etriaph> ScottK: OK, kde-baseapps is at 4:14.12.3-0ubuntu3.1
[23:17] <ScottK> No, won't make stuff from vivid-backports or updates go away.  Those aren't PPAs.
[23:17] <ScottK> OK.  Now you should be able to test.
[23:17] <Etriaph> I did, still not working.
[23:17] <ScottK> Hmmm.
[23:17] <Etriaph> Drag & Drop + Manually adding an entry, no Place is saved
[23:17] <ScottK> Did you restart your KDE session?
[23:17] <Etriaph> Uh, nope, give me 2 secs.
[23:20] <Etriaph> ScottK: Nope, no change.
[23:20] <Etriaph> ScottK: How do I blow away all of Dolphin's config, start fresh?
[23:20] <ScottK> Look in ~/.kde
[23:20] <Etriaph> Setting it up again takes minutes for me.
[23:20] <Etriaph> Nothing in .config or .local?
[23:21] <ScottK> Not for KDE4 (which I think Dolphin still is)
[23:21] <ScottK> ~/.kde/share/config/
[23:22] <Etriaph> Yup, removed ~/.kde/share/apps/dolphin and ~/.kde/share/config/dolphinrc
[23:22] <Etriaph> Still no change.
[23:23] <Etriaph> It can't seem to save ~/.local/share/user-places.xbel; but it reads places saved in other applications, Krita for example
[23:23] <Etriaph> I've "worked around" this issue by creating global places in Krita
[23:25] <Etriaph> But I would consider this to be a major feature of Dolphin as many people enjoy contextual file browsing, which is why I've been working hard to report it, and stay on top of the process.
[23:26] <Etriaph> ScottK: ^ and sorry if my inexperience testing these kinds of bugs has been a hassle.  :D
[23:26] <ScottK> No problem.  Glad to have someone testing.


[14:09] <krono> hi there. I have a system init'ed with cloud init and due to the config it contains sensitive data in /var/lib/cloud/instance/*data.txt
[14:10] <krono> Do I understand that right that simply deleting these files is _not_ safe?
[14:40] <falcojr> krono: what files are you wanting to delete?
[14:40] <krono> falcojr: user-data.txt
[14:44] <falcojr> yeah, that's not really something that's supposed to be deleted. Off the top of my head, I'm not sure it would hurt anything, but it would probably re-appear next boot anyway
[14:45] <falcojr> permissions are root only though, and (depending on the cloud) that data is going to be accessible from the cloud metadata service too
[14:49] <krono> well, I'm provisioning with MAAS and I somehow need to convey the existence of a root user and their password -.-
[14:52] <krono> (also, I've seen on my ovirt setup that changing network stuff via the "cloud-init" option there has no effect whatsoever after subsequent boots)
[14:54] <krono> anyway, thanks for the info, falcojr . I'll just try it out and see what happend :D
[15:10] <minimal> krono: I think the general idea would be for user-data to set a random password for root - which then appears on the console during boot - rather than to put an actual password in user-data. When you talk about a root password in user-data do you mean the actual password or the "encrypted" form of it?
[15:11] <krono> minimal: I have just observed that the password I put in the cloud-init section of ovirt ended up unencrypted in the user-data.txt on the resulting virtual machine.
[15:12] <krono> I now want to provision hardware machines and have to enable and password-ize that ubuntu (for "enterprise" reasons)
[15:12] <krono> In the end, If I'm doing things right,I could put a "wrong" initial password there and then override it in postinstall or something
[15:15] <minimal> krono: are you setting the "plaintext" password in either the "chpasswd" section or within "users:" section? If within the "users:" section then you really should be using "hashed_passwd". Unfortunately the top-level "chpasswd:" setting only support plaintext passwords
[15:16] <krono> minimal: thanks for the info, I'll keep that in mind, makes sense to use hashed password.
[15:17] <krono> minimal: this is what oVirt creates from its gui for cloud-init:
[15:17] <krono> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/1Pcoyk1G/user-data.txt
[15:17] <minimal> krono: as falcojr pointed out, depending on how MAAS provided the user-data, there's a risk that the source of user-data (i.e. metadata server) would be accessible by users on the machine
[15:18] <krono> aah that makes sense... I'll see whether there's an impact in my case
[15:20] <minimal> have a quick look at MAAS datasource and it does use a URL to retrieve the user-data (though with Oauth in place) - I guess the presence of Oauth gives a degree of security to protect the user-data
[15:22] <minimal> krono: as you're setting the default user to root then you could put something like this in user-data:
[15:23] <minimal> users: \n   - default \n    hashed_passwd,: <value>
[15:23] <minimal> that's 3 sets of lines each indented from the previous one
[15:25] <krono> neat! thanks a bunch :D
[15:26] <minimal> if you choose a strong hash method (bcrypt? PBKDF2?) it will be harder to bruteforce if someone ever got hold of it


[03:04] <jose> pleia2: want me to take care of this issue while you're in debconf?
[21:04] <pleia2> jose: I can do release on Monday (holiday in the US, yay!) but if you could put stuff in wiki and send it off to editors while I finish DebConf+travel tomorrow that'd be great :)
[21:04] <jose> sure thing
[21:05] <pleia2> jose: also, I'm bringing along 3 copies of the ubuntu book, planning on giving one out at Ubucon and the other two will be raffled, so I'll make sure you at least sign the other 2 (and I'll tell the person we give the first to that you'll be around :))
[21:05] <pleia2> to fossetcon
[21:06] <jose> not a prob, will be glad to :)
[21:06] <jose> pleia2: anything you want from around here?
[21:07] <pleia2> jose: no, I think I"m good, you need anything from CA? :)
[21:08] <jose> not that I can think of, thanks!