[05:01] <keescook> infinity: yes.  I have debdiffs up on people.u.c/~kees if you want to see them
[05:01] <dholbach> they're fine
[05:01] <infinity> keescook: Are there more coming in?  You mentioned "10" up there, and that's only 6.
[05:02] <heno> seb128, tfheen: there is a small problem with the new at-config not wanting to start onboard on boot without at-spi being active
[05:02] <keescook> infinity: yeah, sorry, they're going slower than I expected.
[05:02] <heno> bug 65937
[05:02] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 65937 in control-center "start osk at login only works with at-spi on in gnome-at-properties" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65937
[05:02] <heno> The bug has two patches with it, one slightly complex and one dead simple
[05:03] <heno> seb128, tfheen: any chance we can target this?
[05:03] <tfheen> tkamppeter: there is no diff there, and if you put up binaries like that you should provide the sources too.
[05:06] <infinity> keescook: smssend and python2.2 part of the same batch?
[05:06] <keescook> infinity: yes, 2 more after that: tkrat, zmailer
[05:06] <infinity> keescook: Mmkay.
[05:07] <infinity> We sure are doing a good job at being frozen. :P
[05:07] <infinity> I don't think edgy-changes has seen this much activity since it opened.
[05:07] <dholbach> hehe :-)
[05:07] <lritter> tfheen: bug seems to be fixed
[05:08] <tfheen> lritter: ok, good
[05:08] <lritter> tfheen: however at smaller dpi rates i notice wrong spacing, but thats a different issue i can live with
[05:10] <doko_> tkamppeter, pitti: before looking at your package, could you tell me why you don't fix it in the existing package?
[05:12] <Kamion> I have the same question. Totally repackaging stuff at this point is deprecated.
[05:13] <Kamion> and having changes in the .diff.gz outside debian/ is not at all unusual
[05:13] <Kamion> changing that will make it harder to merge from Debian in future so we try to avoid doing so
[05:14] <infinity> keescook: Okay, got 'em all now.
[05:14] <keescook> infinity: okay, thanks.
[05:14] <doko_> keescook: ugh, thanks for "noticing", that we should remove python2.2 for edgy ...
[05:14] <infinity> Thank you for shopping at Archives'R'Us.
[05:15] <keescook> doko_: I was wondering about that.  :)
[05:15] <doko_> filing a removal request ...
[05:15] <dholbach> tfheen: are you ok with  http://daniel.holba.ch/temp/bluez-utils.debdiff  and  http://daniel.holba.ch/temp/kdebluetooth.debdiff ? Riddell is happy with them, Tonio_ tested them on Kubuntu and I tested it locally
[05:16] <dholbach> tfheen: this will fix bug 56651
[05:16] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 56651 in bluez-utils "Impossible to do pairing in Kubuntu" [Unknown,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/56651
[05:16] <tfheen> dholbach: just a second, I have to flip a few pancakes
[05:17] <dholbach> tfheen: FLIP ON!
[05:17] <infinity> doko_: http://cerberus.0c3.net/~adconrad/python2.2-rdepcheck
[05:17] <infinity> doko_: Is that all self-contained?
[05:18] <tkamppeter> doko_, I was trying to see whether the Debian mess broke it, and whether it perhaps also broke faxing.
[05:18] <infinity> doko_: Nope, looks like some of those are extra source packages.
[05:19] <doko_> infinity: I'll look ...
[05:19] <infinity> HAHAHAHAHAHA.
[05:19] <infinity> E: Unimplemented, sucks to be you.
[05:19] <infinity> Kinnison's legacy.
[05:20] <Kamion> tkamppeter: also Python modules belong in /usr/lib not /usr/share
[05:20] <tfheen> dholbach: upload away.
[05:20] <dholbach> tfheen: ROCK
[05:20] <tkamppeter> ifheen, pitti, doko_, mdz, mvo, kamion, the sources are there: http://www.freestandards.org/~till/tmp/ubuntu/edgy/hplip/
[05:21] <infinity> doko_: Would be nice to indicate all the rdeps in the removal request.
[05:21] <Kamion> tkamppeter: actually, I may be incorrect on that; I believed that .pyc and .pyo files were architecture-dependent, but some googling reveals that the dependency is more on the interpreter than on the architecture
[05:22] <Kamion> tkamppeter: regardless, it's a gratuitous change that should not be made at this point in the release cycle
[05:22] <infinity> And I think I'm dangerously close to joining Team Soyuz, so I can fix any number of "E: Unimplemented, sucks to be you." error messages in our tools.. :/
[05:22] <doko_> Kamion, tkamppeter: found the cause for 65908, preparing an update
[05:24] <mvo> Kamion: I just solved the mystery of the missing app-install-data-commercial in edgy (or rthat the outdated version number) I uploaded a new version some weeks ago but made a embrassing typo in the distribution field. got no mail from lp about the failure and never noticed the error. I upload a empty a-i-d-c package now because we don't have any edgy-commercial apps yet
[05:25] <dholbach> ogra blogs again
[05:25] <ogra> heh
[05:25] <ogra> i knew someone would notice it :)
[05:25] <highvoltage> heh
[05:25] <Kamion> mvo: heh, ok
[05:25] <highvoltage> ogra: as long as you don't get threatening emails about it ;)
[05:26] <seb128> ogra: dholbach is watching everything everywhere all the time, you know it ;)
[05:26] <ogra> heh, after that weeken i can handle any mail flood :)
[05:27] <ogra> seb128, he must have 100 eyes :)
[05:27] <seb128> yeah, something like that
[05:27] <highvoltage> ooh, that's an interesting blog post
[05:27] <tfheen> ogra: it's spelt "interested", not intrested, though. :-P
[05:27] <ogra> thanks ... fixing ...
[05:31] <doko_> tfheen, Kamion: please approve  http://people.ubuntu.com/~doko/edgy/hplip.debdiff
[05:31] <doko_> tkamppeter: ^^^
[05:35] <tkamppeter> tfheen, kamion, doko_, in addition, /usr/lib/libhpip.so.0 and /usr/lib/libhpip.so.0.0.1 are missing. They also need to be added to debian/hplip.install
[05:35] <tfheen> tkamppeter: there is no need to try to talk to half the development team at once.  Please develop a solution, give references to what targetted bugs it fixes and present it when it's there.
[05:40] <tkamppeter> tfheen, sorry, please approve http://www.freestandards.org/~till/tmp/ubuntu/edgy/hplip/hplip.debdiff
[05:41] <tfheen> tkamppeter: you have tested this properly and it fixes all the 6.10-targetted bugs for hplip?
[05:41] <tkamppeter> The additional libs are required for libsane-hpaio to work.
[05:41] <doko_> infinity, Kamion: bug 65946
[05:41] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 65946 in Ubuntu "python2.2 removal requests" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65946
[05:41] <Kamion> doko_: ok
[05:41] <tkamppeter> Yes, I have tried at first to only add libsane-hpaio and it did not work, then I added libhpip and it worked.
[05:42] <tkamppeter> Device is a USB-connected HP PhotoSmart 2600
[05:42] <Kamion> doko_: please reply to my question on bug 64353
[05:42] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 64353 in python2.3 "python2.3 removal requests" [Undecided,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/64353
[05:43] <tfheen> tkamppeter: ok, approved.
[05:43] <nixternal> hmm..ever since i switched from the 386 kernel to the generic one, i get [17179742.292000]  APIC error on CPU0: 01(01)
[05:43] <nixternal> causes my computer to lockup now
[05:44] <tkamppeter> doko_, can you upload the corrected HPLIP package? Thanks.
[05:45] <doko_> Kamion: done
[05:45] <doko_> tkamppeter: I don't have libhpip libraries ... how did you configure your build?
[05:46] <tkamppeter> doko_, then Debian has messed them away and there mess does not scan, too. I have done the following:\
[05:47] <tkamppeter> I have taken the upstream tarball and uncompressed it.
[05:47] <tkamppeter> Then I have copied the debian/ tree into it
[05:47] <doko_> tkamppeter: from the changelog:
[05:48] <doko_>       * Build libhpip as a convenience library (and don't package it)
[05:48] <doko_> Kamion: your "ok" was for the hplip upload?
[05:48] <tkamppeter> I have at first replaced "lib/hplip" in the Debian tree by "share/hplip" to point to the upstream location, and not to the place where Debian has moved all the stuff to.
[05:49] <tkamppeter> Then I have built, and according to error messages adjusted paths in the debian/rules and the debian/*.install files.
[05:49] <doko_> tkamppeter:  ./libtool --tag=CC --mode=link gcc  -Wall -pipe -g -O2   -o libsane-hpaio.la -rpath /usr/lib/sane -version-info 1:0:0 -module hpaio.lo mfpdtf.lo
[05:49] <doko_> pml.lo scl.lo io.lo libhpip.la libhplip-api.la -lnetsnmp -lusb -lpthread
[05:49] <doko_> gcc -shared  .libs/hpaio.o .libs/mfpdtf.o .libs/pml.o .libs/scl.o .libs/io.o -Wl,--whole-archive ./.libs/libhpip.a ./.libs/libhplip-api.a -Wl,--no-whole-ar
[05:49] <doko_> chive  -lcrypto /usr/lib/libnetsnmp.so /usr/lib/libusb.so -lpthread  -Wl,-soname -Wl,libsane-hpaio.so.1 -o .libs/libsane-hpaio.so.1.0.0
[05:49] <doko_> so everything looks fine
[05:50] <tkamppeter> Then I saw the bug 65908 in my e-mail and I tested scanning. It did not work.
[05:50] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 65908 in hplip "libsane-hpaio.so not shipped anymore" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65908
[05:50] <tkamppeter> I added the missing libsane-hpaio to hplip.install. It still did not work.
[05:51] <tkamppeter> So I ran "sudo apt-get install sane-utils; SANE_DEBUG_DLL=255 scanimage -L" and so in the screen output that also libhpip*.so.* was missing.
[05:52] <tkamppeter> I added these libs to hplip.install, rebuilt, installed and scanning simply worked.
[05:52] <tkamppeter> Resulting source package:
[05:52] <Kamion> doko_: no, acknowledging the python2.2 removal request
[05:52] <tkamppeter> http://www.freestandards.org/~till/tmp/ubuntu/edgy/hplip/
[05:53] <Kamion> tkamppeter: see my mail on that subject
[05:53] <fabbione> infinity: did you file a bug on autogen already?
[05:53] <Kamion> repackaging isn't acceptable at this point
[05:53] <tkamppeter> And this package is now in the shape that I could simply replace the source by the preview 1.6.10 upstream tarball which I got from HP, but this did not make fax working anyway (not uploaded).
[05:54] <doko_> Kamion: anyway, please see the one line fix at http://people.ubuntu.com/~doko/edgy/hplip.debdiff
[05:54] <Kamion> tkamppeter: if you're unhappy with the Debian packaging, please do talk to the Debian maintainer, but this is the wrong time to be experimenting with packaging changes in Edgy, I'm afraid
[05:55] <Kamion> doko_: I'm fine with that much, but I'd prefer that you and tkamppeter reach agreement first
[05:55] <tkamppeter> kamion, sorry, I simply tried out whether I got fax working, and during the experiments I have fixed scanning.
[05:55] <Kamion> tkamppeter: the problem with repackaging is that we don't know what else you've thrown away in the process of fixing this bug
[05:55] <doko_> tkamppeter: what devices are used for faxing, I see we do have a fax group, hplip is not a member.
[05:56] <Kamion> tkamppeter: and, as I said in my mail, large-scale moving around of Python modules isn't good at this point either
[05:56] <tkamppeter> So I think, as all 1.6.7, 1.6.9, and 1.6.10 do not fax in Ubuntu, we should at least get scanning working with any of them.
[05:56] <doko_> tkamppeter: do you agree with my proposed fix?
[05:56] <tkamppeter> So the very first step is to see whether Debian ships libhpip and whether Debians packages scan.
[05:57] <Kamion> <cjwatson@riva ~>$ dpkg -c /mirror/debian/pool/main/h/hplip/hplip_1.6.7-2_i386.deb | grep hpip
[05:57] <Kamion> <cjwatson@riva ~>$
[05:58] <doko_> tkamppeter: do you read what I write? libhpip is linked as a convenience library?
[05:58] <tkamppeter> doko_, I can only agree with it if it really works. So upload the fixed package into a web space and I try it out.
[05:59] <tkamppeter> doko_, I am reading what you are writing, but perhaps I am not fast enough in answering.
[05:59] <tkamppeter> What does mean "linked as a convenience library"?
[06:00] <doko_> rsyncing to http://people.ubuntu.com/~doko/hplip ...
[06:01] <doko_> a "static" library with object files compiled with -fPIC, linked into the target library
[06:03] <tkamppeter> doko_, so the libsane-hpaio has libhpip statically linked?
[06:03] <doko_> tkamppeter: yes
[06:03] <doko_> the one from the hplip package
[06:03] <tkamppeter> Then it should work, I will test.
[06:05] <doko_> tkamppeter: rsync finished
[06:06] <Kamion> tfheen: ok for me to do a universe-only sync pass?
[06:11] <tkamppeter> doko_, thank you. Downloaded the package tested, and scanning works. Package can be uploaded.
[06:12] <doko_> tkamppeter, Kamion: uploaded
[06:14] <tkamppeter> doko_, thanks, marked bug 65908 as "Fix committed".
[06:14] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 65908 in hplip "libsane-hpaio.so not shipped anymore" [Critical,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65908
[06:22] <Kamion> tfheen: I'll just do it, I reckon it's safe :-)
[06:25] <keescook> ajmitch: re 65831 (john ftbfs), is CLK_TCK -> CLOCKS_PER_SEC correct?  I thought the right fix was to call sysconf(_SC_CLK_TCK) ?
[06:25] <Kamion> doko_: could you give me a reason for removing gnat (bug 65875) for the record, so that we know why we removed it later?
[06:25] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 65875 in gcc-defaults "FTBFS in edgy" [High,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65875
[06:26] <fabbione> keescook: probably it is..
[06:26] <fabbione> keescook: mind to give it a shot?..
[06:26] <doko_> Kamion: gnat-4.1 is the current package, the binary gnat is built from gcc-defaults, the old gnat is based on gcc-2.8
[06:26] <keescook> fabbione: no problem.  (did this yesterday for dsniff)
[06:26] <fabbione> keescook: perfect
[06:30] <keescook> fabbione: hm, actually, either seems to be right.
[06:30] <Kamion> doko_: thanks
[06:30] <fabbione> keescook: up to you.. i was waiting a comment on that testsuite thingy from ajmitch. but if you can test/upload i am ok
[06:30] <keescook> oh!  no, actually, it's not.  sysconf is the right way.
[06:31] <tfheen> Kamion: oh, feel free.
[06:31] <keescook> CLK_TCK == 100, CLOCKS_PER_SEC == 1000000
[06:31] <keescook> :)
[06:31] <keescook> probably why the test suite fails
[06:31] <tfheen> Kamion: universe is something I try hard to keep off my radar. :-)
[06:34] <doko_> tfheen, Kamion: please approve http://people.ubuntu.com/~doko/edgy/python-setuptools.debdiff
[06:34] <tfheen> doko_: looks good to me; approved.
[06:37] <mdz> tkamppeter: scanning was working fine for me with 1.6.7
[06:37] <mdz> tkamppeter: so this is a regression in 1.6.9
[06:37] <mdz> doko_: was it a packaging problem or an upstream problem?
[06:38] <doko_> mdz: packaging, imported from debian, but didn't notice
[06:44] <keescook> dholbach, fabbione: I've got a successfully built fix for 65831 (john FTBFS).  okay to upload?
[06:45] <tfheen> bug 65831
[06:45] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 65831 in john "FTBFS in edgy" [High,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65831
[06:45] <tfheen> keescook: debdiff, please?
[06:45] <dholbach> keescook: john is in main - that's not my domain
[06:45] <keescook> tfheen: one sec
[06:46] <dholbach> tfheen: uploaded the fix for bug 65645
[06:46] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 65645 in bluez-gnome "Die systray icon die!" [Undecided,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65645
[06:46] <tfheen> dholbach: yay
[06:47] <keescook> tfheen: http://librarian.launchpad.net/4825077/john_1.6-40ubuntu2.dsc.debdiff
[06:47] <dholbach> we're up to 41 RC bugs
[06:47] <dholbach> 44
[06:47] <fabbione> keescook: sorry but i can't authorize uploads..
[06:48] <tfheen> keescook: looks good, upload away.
[06:48] <keescook> tfheen: thank, uploaded.
[06:48] <seb128> dholbach: up? it was 57, I would call that down
[06:48] <dholbach> it was 41 at the meeting yesterday ,no? ;)
[06:49] <tfheen> dholbach: we've had a bunch of rebuild errors since then
[06:50] <heno> seb128: can you help applying the patch for bug 65937? (I ask since it's your package)
[06:50] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 65937 in control-center "start osk at login only works with at-spi on in gnome-at-properties" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65937
[06:50] <mdz> BenC: what caused the kernel build failure?
[06:50] <dholbach> tfheen: yeah, I know - that's whyI added the 'smiley' :)
[06:50] <seb128> tfheen: would you be happy with something like http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/26618/ ?
[06:50] <BenC> mdz: I quieted some printk's, but forgot it is KERN_WARNING, not KERN_WARN
[06:50] <BenC> mdz: one-liner fix in two files, and things are building now
[06:51] <heno> seb128: and sorry for the ~ cruft in the patch :-/
[06:51] <mdz> BenC: you said you did a test build, though; was that change added later?
[06:51] <seb128> tfheen: that's probably fixing the Xvfb crashers happening atm (breaking some builds because xvfb-run crash)
[06:51] <Treenaks> 4
[06:51] <mdz> it was in the diff you sent me
[06:52] <Kamion> seb128: I'm going to have to reject a number of dapper-{proposed,updates} uploads from you; could you re-run those through the procedure in http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates?
[06:52] <seb128> tfheen: I say "probably" because the package is still building, but I've tried with the "-extension Composite" and it does fix it
[06:52] <BenC> mdz: I only test built the things that changed (e1000, v4l1, etc). I didn't do a full build, and didn't check the one-liner printk edits
[06:52] <mdz> BenC: oh, I misunderstood then
[06:52] <Kamion> seb128: (I realise they're from before the policy was in place, but I can't help that now)
[06:52] <tfheen> seb128: hmm, ok.  Can you give me an example of a build which failed?
[06:52] <seb128> Kamion: will I get some notification about which ones are rejected?
[06:52] <Kamion> seb128: yes, you'll get mail
[06:52] <BenC> mdz: I did do a full build of this and booted, so it should be good to go now
[06:52] <Kamion> seb128: do you need the source packages put somewhere for you, or do you still have them?
[06:53] <seb128> tfheen: libgtk2-perl
[06:53] <seb128> Kamion: I probably have them, not sure though ... if you could give me the list of packages first I will tell you
[06:53] <tfheen> seb128: and it works for you with that?  If so, go ahead.
[06:54] <seb128> tfheen: yes, ok, thank you
[06:54] <Kamion> seb128: from dapper-proposed, gtk+2.0 2.8.20-0ubuntu2, evolution 2.6.3-0ubuntu1, evolution-data-server 1.6.3-0ubuntu1, evolution-exchange 2.6.3-0ubuntu1
[06:54] <Kamion> I haven't gone through dapper-updates yet
[06:55] <Kamion> seb128: but in any case we can retrieve stuff from the rejected queue essentially forever, so you just need to ask
[06:55] <seb128> Kamion: I have them
[06:55] <seb128> you can clean them
[06:55] <Kamion> ok
[06:55] <seb128> evo stack was pending on a reply with extra informations to mdz because they are non trivial updates anyway
[06:56] <seb128> I'll do a second round on them after edgy ;)
[06:56] <lritter> i'm inbetween upgrading dapper to edgy
[06:56] <lritter> seems i can't install python-minimal
[06:57] <keescook> tfheen: ack, I need someone to sponsor my john upload (since it's in main).  what's the best way to do this?
[06:57] <doko_> tfheen, Kamion: please approve bug 65963, fixing a FTBFS of python-biopython
[06:57] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 65963 in flex "sync request" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65963
[06:57] <tfheen> seb128: any chance you could sponsor keescook's john upload?  My brain's utterly fried now.
[06:58] <lritter> http://rafb.net/paste/results/XZbiUG96.html <- anyone knows what to do?
[06:58] <seb128> tfheen: ok, where is it?
[06:58] <tfheen> keescook: ^^
[06:58] <seb128> keescook: bug number?
[06:58] <Kamion> mvo: the apt changelog in edgy shows this change:
[06:58] <Kamion> apt (<IP_ADDRESS>ubuntu3) dapper; urgency=low
[06:58] <Kamion>   * methods/http.cc:
[06:58] <Kamion>     - fix the user-agent string
[06:58] <Kamion>  -- Michael Vogt<EMAIL_ADDRESS>Fri, 26 May 2006 18:09:32 +0200
[06:58] <tfheen> seb128: thanks a lot.
[06:58] <keescook> seb128: where do you want it?  (bug is 65831)
[06:58] <Kamion> mvo: apparently that was never uploaded (or never accepted), and now there's a <IP_ADDRESS>ubuntu3 in dapper-proposed. Does that proposed upload include the change above, or what?
[06:59] <lritter> help!
[06:59] <lritter> :>
[06:59] <tfheen> doko_: python-biopython is universe, and the other is a warning.  I don't see a big point.
[06:59] <tfheen> lritter: this channel is not for support, not even with edgy.
[07:00] <tfheen> lritter: there are some bugs filed about similar problems to yours, please contribute to those instead.
[07:00] <lritter> oh
[07:00] <lritter> i was thinking this was a common problem
[07:00] <doko_> tfheen: http://bugs.debian.org/379763 got my attention
[07:00] <fabbione> guys i am going offline
[07:00] <lritter> and only required one line of answer
[07:00] <lritter> but obviously its not ;)
[07:00] <fabbione> the buildd is still going on sparc.. i will pass later today or tomorrow to check logs
[07:00] <fabbione> and file other bugs
[07:00] <lritter> tfheen: anyway, parts of the packages have been upgraded and i can confirm again that the font problems are gone ;)
[07:01] <seb128> keescook: looking on the bug, you have the package somewhere to download?
[07:01] <keescook> seb128: what's best for you?  rookery?
[07:01] <seb128> keescook: rookery is good yep
[07:02] <tfheen> doko_: hmm, point.  -Wall -Werror might cause build failures
[07:02] <tfheen> doko_: do you have a debdiff?
[07:03] <keescook> seb128: http://people.ubuntu.com/~kees/ftbfs-fixes/
[07:03] <siretart> oh. I think there is an archive problem. http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/dapper/Release references a file main/binary-amd64/Packages, which doesn't exist. I'm not sure if this is the cause that debmirror fails to sync my local mirror
[07:04] <mvo_> Kamion: I uploaded it to dapper-proposed, the edgy changelog entry is wrong for some reason [re-send because my connection just dropped]
[07:07] <Kamion> mvo_: well, see my mail anyway
[07:07] <mdz> Riddell: what's happening with bug 65675, bug 65963, bug 63325, bug 64978?
[07:07] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 65675 in kdebase "system menu fails to load on start" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65675
[07:07] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 65963 in flex "sync request" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65963
[07:07] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 63325 in kde-systemsettings "systemsettings won't load the desktop_kde-systemsettings.mo translation in Edgy" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63325
[07:07] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 64978 in kde-guidance "powermanager icon sometimes shows fully charged when not" [Undecided,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/64978
[07:07] <tfheen> doko_: I'm leaving for the weekend now, so if you could poke mdz about the flex bug instead, that'd be good.
[07:07] <infinity> siretart: That's perfectly normal.  We don't ship the uncompressed files on the mirrors, but you'll find that when you uncompress the .gz/.bz2 files, they have the same hash as the one listed in Releases.
[07:08] <infinity> siretart: And apt insists that the uncompressed file be listed, because it checks that has after decompressing locally.
[07:08] <Riddell> mdz: 65675 I'll confirm if it's fixed this evening
[07:08] <Kamion> mvo_: I think it should be fine eventually, but I am obliged to go through the process
[07:08] <Riddell> mdz: 65963 isn't mine
[07:08] <mdz> fabbione: are you fixing sparc-utils
[07:08] <Riddell> mdz: 64978 is now fixed, I'll change that
[07:08] <siretart> infinity: hm. then the debmirror breakage has another cause. interstingly, this seems to happen with dapper only. hrmpf
[07:08] <doko_> tfheen: just a minute, reducing the debdiff ...
[07:08] <Riddell> mdz: and 63325 I need to look in to
[07:08] <mvo_> ok
[07:08] <mdz> Riddell: 65665 I meant
[07:09] <mdz> the 4 kde bugs on the 6.10 list
[07:11] <Riddell> mdz: 65665 I have a likely fix for that I'll test tonight too
[07:11] <mdz> sfllaw: did you receive my mail about the validation process for next week?
[07:11] <seb128> keescook: looks good to me, uploaded ;)
[07:12] <keescook> seb128: great, thanks
[07:12] <seb128> np
[07:12] <doko_> tfheen: http://people.ubuntu.com/~doko/edgy/ (removed the generated files from .shortdiff)
[07:12] <seb128> heno: I'll have a look at the bug you pointed next, sorry for the lag
[07:13] <heno> seb128: np :) thanks
[07:13] <heno> seb128: the last patch on the bug should be simple and clean
[07:13] <Kamion> tfheen: mdz approved a UVF exception for iptables, so I'll accept that once it lands
[07:13] <seb128> heno: right; looks good to me
[07:14] <heno> \o/
[07:18] <rick_> has anyone seen this bug as of yet?: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/65787
[07:18] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 65787 in Ubuntu "Major Problem with DHCP setting MTU Correctly." [Undecided,Unconfirmed]
[07:18] <keescook> 65948> "-lz" is coming from libxml2's .la file.  Looking at libxml2's debian/control file, libxml2-dev doesn't have ${shlibs:Depends}.  isn't that wrong?
[07:20] <keescook> should libxml2 maybe include zlib1g-dev explicitly as a Depends?
[07:22] <mdz> keescook: does edgy-security exist yet?
[07:22] <keescook> mdz: unsure.  pitti was talking about it, but I don't have jackass access yet.
[07:23] <janimo> heno: I have just played with sticky/mouse keys for the first time and it's really nice. The whole idea I mean :)
[07:24] <janimo> mdz: I'd like to ask for an UVF in advance for Sunday or early next week for xfdesktop. There are some major bugs being fixed upstream
[07:24] <janimo> crashers and memleaks
[07:26] <mdz> keescook: libxml2-dev should depend on zlib1g-dev in that case
[07:26] <mdz> janimo: your call, but I recommend being cautious about what you choose to accept this late in the game
[07:27] <mdz> janimo: if it causes a problem which requires work on the part of the archive admins to process packages and builds, they may not have time to do it while busy with the RC
[07:28] <Trewas> rick_: maybe that's related to bug 61989
[07:28] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 61989 in dhcp3 "[Edgy dhclient regression]  error: Message too long" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61989
[07:28] <janimo> mdz:thanks.  work on part of admins besides approval?
[07:29] <wasabi> Hmm. Is there a text mode installer CD, somewhere, that has EVMS on it?
[07:29] <wasabi> (and lets me mount /target on my own)
[07:29] <mdz> janimo: CD builds, livefs builds, etc.
[07:29] <wasabi> The fight I'm having with this system sucks. =(
[07:31] <janimo> mdz: ok
[07:31] <keescook> mdz: zlib1g-dev explicitly deps on libc (which libxml2-dev should as well).  Is it more correct to use explicit deps, or use $shlibs?
[07:31] <mdz> keescook: shlibs is only for runtime libraries
[07:38] <mdz> sfllaw: hello?
[07:46] <AlinuxOS> mdz, I saw you responded to my mail on ubuntu-devel, unique thing that I know is that this http://packages.debian.org/unstable/x11/ttf-bpg-georgian-fonts Debgian package works for me without problems (I don't know if it's ok for Ubuntu too). If not so I should wait for mjg59's fix, because I'm just simple Gnome translator.
[07:49] <doko_> Kamion, tfheen: Please approve a no-change upload to build libopentoken (with gnat-4.1, built last time in June with gnat-3.15)
[07:56] <wasabi> There any way to launch the text mode installer from the livecd?
[07:56] <wasabi> hmm guess not.
[07:57] <dholbach> have a nice weekend
[08:02] <mdz> night dholbach
[08:02] <Mez> wasabi: the alternative CD should I believe - but try #ubuntu
[08:02] <dholbach> mdz: have a *VERY* nice day :-)
[08:03] <elmo> could a MOTU please fix https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Merging ? it talks about pinging me for syncs, which is like a bazillion years out of date
[08:04] <elmo> (I don't know what the correct sync procedure is these days - and while I could probably find out, it seems easier to ask someone who knows offhand to fix it)
[08:05] <elmo> similarly, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Uploads talks about me checking new packages and warty, it looks like it could use some love
[08:05] <Mez> ::wikiwub::
[08:11] <mdz> elmo: it already links to the correct instructions;  I just removed mention of you
[08:11] <Mez> mdz: security uploads for warty should go to warty-security. build logs are not published because some security uploads are embargoed (not to be released until a certain agreed date). New builds have to be confirmed by the security team (pitti). You must read and follow SecurityUpdateProcedures
[08:11] <elmo> mdz: thanks
[08:12] <sfllaw> mdz: Yup.
[08:12] <mdz> Mez: wherever that is, it deserves the same treatment (delete everything but the link to SecurityUpdateProcedures, which will be kept up to date)
[08:12] <Mez> its in /Uploads ;)
[08:13] <Mez> mdz: fixed anyways
[08:30] <Mez> whats the default mail agent for ubuntu - exim ?
[08:35] <sfllaw> mdz: Hello.
[08:36] <elmo> Mez: there isn't a default installed, but postfix is preferred as a choice if none is specified/already installed
[08:38] <Mez> elmo: oh... /me wonders why he thought exim was the default
[08:38] <Mez> cheers elmo - btw - hows things - been a long time ;)
[08:39] <elmo> probably because it's the default in Debian
[08:39] <elmo> mez: fine thanks
[08:39] <Mez> elmo: ah that makes sense.
[08:40] <mdz> sfllaw: hi
[08:40] <sfllaw> mdz: Hi.
[08:40] <mdz> sfllaw: so about the validation process...
[08:41] <sfllaw> This was the mail entitled Re: DevelTeamMeeting - 20061012, right?
[08:41] <keescook> Kamion, tfheen: I need permission (and a main sponsor) for http://people.ubuntu.com/~kees/ftbfs-fixes/libxml2_2.6.26.dfsg-2ubuntu4.dsc.debdiff (prereq fix for 65948)
[08:45] <tfheen> keescook: your changelog there is wrong ; you don't add libc-dev (and you shouldn't either)
[08:46] <mdz> sfllaw: no
[08:47] <mdz> sfllaw: ->/query
[08:49] <keescook> tfheen: ah! thanks for that.  I realized it while changing the Deps...
[08:50] <tfheen> keescook: it's merely the changelog which is wrong, though.  Your change looks correct.
[08:51] <fabbione> mdz: no, i assigned it to Ben.
[08:51] <mdz> fabbione: yes, I see that now
[08:51] <fabbione> mdz: ok perfect
[08:51] <fabbione> i am off for the evening.
[08:51] <fabbione> mdz: i will be back in 12 or so and look around.. buildd is still going
[08:51] <fabbione> i am sure there will be more to fix
[08:52] <Mez> who's the lead for ubuntu-serveR?
[08:52] <keescook> tfheen: okay, corrected libxml2 changelog and re-uped to rookery.
[08:56] <mdz> tfheen,Kamion,mvo: did you receive my email about the release validation process?  it seems Simon didn't
[08:56] <tfheen> mdz: I got it, yes.  I pointed sfllaw to the wiki page earlier today.
[08:56] <doko_> Kamion, tfheen, mdz: please approve http://people.ubuntu.com/~doko/edgy/bouncycastle.debdiff, fixing FTBFS for binary-arch only builds
[08:57] <mdz> tfheen: thanks
[08:57] <mdz> doko_: yep
[08:57] <tfheen> doko_: it looks sane; you've tested it, I presume?  If so, approved.
[08:58] <tfheen> doko_: could you sponsor keescook's libxml2 upload, please?
[08:58] <doko_> tfheen: I shortened the debdiff again, removing the archive files, attached to bug 65963
[08:58] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 65963 in flex "sync request" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65963
[08:58] <doko_> tfheen: yes, tested; will do
[08:58] <sfllaw> mdz: That's where I heard it from.
[08:58] <sfllaw> mdz: Your e-mail still hasn't arrived after the bounce.
[08:58] <sfllaw> Am testing on my side to see if I get e-mails.
[09:00] <mdz> tfheen: for FTBFS fixes, I don't think there's a need for review before uploading; it can be done as part of the archive admin process.  do you agree?
[09:00] <mdz> sfllaw: just sent you a test email
[09:01] <sfllaw> mdz: I'm not getting @ubuntu.com mail anymore.
[09:01] <sfllaw> mdz: Could you bounce the mail to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>and I'll follow up with rt@?
[09:02] <mdz> sfllaw: bounced
[09:03] <sfllaw> Got it.
[09:03] <sfllaw> mdz: tfheen and I talked about it this morning.
[09:03] <sfllaw> I'm actually working on StableReleaseUpdates and ReleaseValidationProcess right now.
[09:04] <doko_> keescook: libxml2 uploaded
[09:04] <keescook> doko_: thank you!  :)
[09:04] <sfllaw> This evening, I should have some announcement e-mails to send out.  ubuntu-devel-announce, ubuntu-devel, ubuntu-laptop, and ubuntu-bugsquad seem like prime candidates for this.
[09:04] <elmo> sfllaw: your MX is unreachable from the UK
[09:04] <sfllaw> elmo: ?!?
[09:05] <sfllaw> elmo: I can connect to fiordland.ubuntu.com.
[09:06] <elmo> sfllaw: I can't get past piero.pppoe.ca when trying to get to law.yi.org, from multiple providers in the UK
[09:06] <sfllaw> elmo: My MX is <IP_ADDRESS>.  Is DNS out of date?
[09:07] <elmo> sfllaw: looks like, I'm seeing <IP_ADDRESS>
[09:07] <Kamion> doko_: libopentoken> really? libopentoken3.0b Depends: libgnat-4.1 here (powerpc)
[09:09] <sfllaw> elmo: I guess I need a shorter TTL.  Thanks.
[09:11] <doko_> Kamion: sorry, my mistake. fooled by the clear and easy structure of https://launchpad.net/people/doko/+packages ;-p
[09:11] <Kamion> haha
[09:19] <tfheen> mdz: the workflow so far has been that infinity or Kamion has listed the unapproved items in the queue and I've told them what to do about each (or gone off investigating if there has been unknown uploads).  While ftbfs reviews take a little bit of time, it hasn't been problematic in any way and means all packages go through the same process.
[09:19] <siretart> is bug #61711 a duplicate of #56587, and should they be targeted for 6.10?
[09:19] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 61711 in usplash "no boot splash and very slow booting" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61711
[09:19] <tfheen> mdz: so I'd rather just have the cursory review we're currently doing than risking having stuff stuck in unapproved since nobody knows about it.
[09:20] <mdz> tfheen: I can't think of any scenario where we would decide not to fix an ftbfs, so they wouldn't be stuck in unapproved ever (only superseded by a new upload if necessary)
[09:21] <tfheen> mdz: they'll be mixed with uploads which do need review and I'll have to spend time finding out what the upload is about rather than doing lastlog $package if I can't remember having approved it.
[09:21] <tfheen> s,lastlog,/lastlog
[09:25] <Kamion> tfheen: speaking of unapproved:
[09:25] <Kamion>   109326 | S- | djplay               | 0.3.0-0ubuntu2       | 1 hour 50 minutes
[09:25] <Kamion>          | * djplay/0.3.0-0ubuntu2 Component: universe Section: sound
[09:25] <Kamion>   109288 | S- | bluez-gnome          | 0.5-2ubuntu2         | 2 hours 40 minutes
[09:25] <Kamion>          | * bluez-gnome/0.5-2ubuntu2 Component: main Section: gnome
[09:25] <Kamion>   109225 | S- | bluez-utils          | 3.7-1ubuntu3         | four hours
[09:25] <Kamion>          | * bluez-utils/3.7-1ubuntu3 Component: main Section: admin
[09:25] <Kamion>   109224 | S- | kdebluetooth         | 0.99+1.0beta1-12ubun | four hours
[09:25] <Kamion>          | * kdebluetooth/0.99+1.0beta1-12ubuntu8 Component: main Section: kde
[09:26] <tfheen> Kamion: bluez-* and kdebluetooth are approved, djplay is universe => dholbach and friends.
[09:26] <Kamion> all the bluetooth ones are dholbach; djplay is adri2000
[09:28] <tfheen> I assume the djplay one is fine, but I don't do universe so I have no idea.
[09:28] <tfheen> maybe ajmitch knows?
[09:28] <siretart> dholbach approved it on #ubuntu-motu
[09:29] <Kamion> ok, I had a quick look but the int->long patch wasn't obvious to me
[09:30] <Kamion> ok, according to the #ubuntu-motu log it comes from upstream; thanks for the pointer
[09:31] <Kamion> tfheen: control-center change in unapproved:
[09:31] <Kamion> +  * debian/patches/34_at_properties_onboard_and_new_interface.patch:
[09:31] <Kamion> +    - make the osk option active only when at-spi is active,
[09:31] <Kamion> +      patch update by Chris Jones (Ubuntu: #65937)
[09:32] <Kamion> I think that's meant to be s/osk/sok/ possibly
[09:32] <Kamion> ... or maybe not
[09:32] <tfheen> on-screen keyboard, I guess.
[09:33] <Kamion> yeah, just worked that out
[09:33] <tfheen> it looks sane enough to me.
[09:33] <tfheen> approved.
[09:34] <heno> osk = on-screen keyboard, yes
[09:34] <heno> AT jargon ;)
[09:52] <shining> I always fail to find the git web view of the ubuntu kernel tree
[09:53] <shining> I only find this: http://www.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/bcollins/ubuntu-2.6.git/
[09:59] <keescook> Kamion, tfheen: with dholbach gone for the weekend, who should I run universe uploads past?  I have a fix for 65616, uncovered during openssl rebuilds.
[10:00] <tfheen> keescook: I think we made ajmitch volunteer for it, at least.  Maybe siretart too wants to, if he's still around.
[10:03] <siretart> keescook: hm. this looks rather like a hack than a proper fix to the problem
[10:05] <keescook> siretart: I wasn't sure that the issue was.
[10:06] <keescook> it attempts to check for pgsql, so I thought that'd be the best way
[10:06] <keescook> (the docs say to use that variable, anyway)
[10:12] <lritter> hm
[10:12] <lritter> why is there a difference in the live cd bootscreen and the dist-upgrade bootscreen?
[10:13] <lritter> the dist-upgrade bootscreen shows a test image
[10:13] <lritter> the live cd bootscreen shows a large ubuntu logo
[10:26] <mdz> lritter: sounds a bit like bug 61313, perhaps you could investigate a little and see what the cause is
[10:26] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 61313 in usplash "Usplash artwork missing on upgrades" [Medium,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61313
[10:30] <lritter> mdz: allright
[10:33] <lritter> mdz: it seems it requires me to install usplash-theme-ubuntu
[10:34] <mdz> lritter: in which case the issue is that you removed ubuntu-desktop at some point in the past.  I recommend reinstalling it
[10:34] <lritter> mdz: let me see
[10:35] <lritter> mdz: sacre bleu
[10:35] <lritter> mdz: i wonder how this happened :D
[10:36] <mdz> lritter: if you use the automated upgrade process, it fixes this up for you
[10:36] <lritter> mdz, which one?
[10:40] <lritter> mdz, apt-get kind of refuses to do this.
[10:40] <lritter> mdz, but i'll handle this
[10:41] <lritter> with great delight i notice more tango icons :D
[10:42] <Twoods196> can anyone tell me how to install Blowfish, Crypt, And others into Ubuntu?
[10:43] <lritter> i assume you need cryptlib
[10:43] <lritter> or in this case, libcrypt
[10:44] <Twoods196> yeh, im trying to install vhcs
[10:44] <Twoods196> i tried thhe sudo apt-get libcrypt
[10:46] <mdz> lritter: Update Manager
[10:47] <Twoods196> bruce@ubuntu:/root/vhcs_tmp/install/vhcs2.4$ sudo /var/www/vhcs2/engine/setup/vhcs2-setup
[10:47] <Twoods196> Password:
[10:47] <Twoods196> CRITICAL ERROR: Module [MIME::Entity]  WAS NOT FOUND !
[10:47] <Twoods196> CRITICAL ERROR: Module [MIME::Parser]  WAS NOT FOUND !
[10:47] <Twoods196> CRITICAL ERROR: Module [Crypt::CBC]  WAS NOT FOUND !
[10:47] <Twoods196> CRITICAL ERROR: Module [Crypt::Blowfish]  WAS NOT FOUND !
[10:47] <Twoods196> CRITICAL ERROR: Module [Term::ReadPassword]  WAS NOT FOUND !
[10:47] <Twoods196> Modules [MIME::Entity, MIME::Parser, Crypt::CBC, Crypt::Blowfish, Term::ReadPassword]  WAS NOT FOUND in your system...
[10:47] <Twoods196> thats what im getting
[10:48] <tfheen> Twoods196: this is hardly on-topic for this channel.
[10:49] <tfheen> Twoods196: perl modules are usually named lib$perlname-perl, so libmime-entity-perl, libmime-parser-perl, etc.
[10:49] <Twoods196> ahh..asked in wrong room guess i neeed ot ask in ubuntu
[10:49] <Twoods196> sorry
[10:49] <tfheen> Twoods196: yeah, #ubuntu is more appropriate.  Thanks. :-)
[11:12] <ajmitch> morning
[11:23] <lritter> can somebody take care of this
[11:23] <lritter> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/scite/+bug/61033
[11:23] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 61033 in scite "Tabs don't function properly under edgy" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]
[11:23] <lritter> there's obviously a fix
[11:25] <ajmitch> lritter: would you be able to fill out the info needed for a UVF exception please? (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Processes/UVF)
[11:25] <lritter> what is this?
[11:25] <lritter> anyway
[11:25] <lritter> yeah
[11:25] <lritter> :)
[11:26] <ajmitch> too easy for the bug to get lost, especially as noone set it as confirmed :)
[11:27] <lritter> ajmitch: how can i assign this?
[11:28] <ajmitch> click on scite (Ubuntu) in the middle of the page
[11:28] <ajmitch> it expands to change the bug details
[11:29] <lritter> ok
[11:34] <keescook> tfheen, Kamion: now that libxml2 is published, can you give permission for my autogen upload to close 65948?
[11:34] <keescook> http://people.ubuntu.com/~kees/ftbfs-fixes/
[11:35] <Riddell> Kamion: kubuntu ubiquity won't let me pass the map page without going back then forward again
[11:35] <ajmitch> keescook: sorry, I saw that CLK_TCK 'fix' in another changelog
[11:36] <keescook> ajmitch: no problem.  do you remember which (it should be changed too)
[11:36] <ajmitch> just looking
[11:36] <tfheen> keescook: looks good to me; can you get ajmitch or Riddell or somebody to sponsor you?
[11:36] <keescook> tfheen: I will, thanks.
[11:36] <ajmitch> keescook: netkit-bsae
[11:36] <ajmitch> -base
[11:37] <keescook> ajmitch: can you sponsor my autogen fix upload into main?  (see URL above)
[11:37] <ajmitch> sure
[11:37] <keescook> thanks!
[11:37] <seb128> tfheen: I've uploaded a libgpod with that patch: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/26678/
[11:38] <seb128> tfheen: new ipod firmware makes that pszSerialNumber is not defined for some people and rhythmbox crashes on start, the patch fixes the crasher
[11:39] <tfheen> seb128: gnr, ok.  Approved.
[11:39] <seb128> thank you
[11:41] <keescook> ajmitch: cool, I'll re-fix netkit-base
[11:42] <ajmitch> keescook: it certainly explains why the test suite ran so long before I killed it :)
[11:42] <keescook> ajmitch: hehe, yeah!  :)
[11:43] <keescook> tfheen: permission for another upload, please: http://people.ubuntu.com/~kees/ftbfs-fixes/netkit-base_0.10-10.3ubuntu4.dsc.debdiff
[11:45] <ajmitch> keescook: autogen uploaded
[11:45] <keescook> ajmitch: cool, thank you.
[11:46] <tfheen> keescook: yay, good.
[11:46] <tfheen> (approved)
[11:46] <keescook> tfheen: thanks.  :)   ajmitch: can I lean on you again for the netkit-base upload from the same place?  :)
[11:46] <ajmitch> no problem :)
[11:48] <tfheen> keescook: I'm going to bed RSN since it's almost midnight here.  For FTBFS fixes, just uploading or running them past mdz (or just typing them out to me and uploading) should be fine.
[11:48] <keescook> tfheen: okay, thanks.
[11:52] <ajmitch> keescook: netkit-base uploaded
[11:59] <dave_> What package has this file: X11/glcanvas.h


[00:53] <tc1100> Im relatively new to linux in general and ive never used xubuntu before
[00:54] <tc1100> i have a pretty basic question here
[00:54] <tc1100> my wifi is protected by wpa2-psk[AES] with a 15 character passphrase
[00:55] <tc1100> in the password dialogue in xubuntu for the wifi, the "connect" button becomes unavailable after i type out the whole password, though it becomes available at various points throughout it
[00:55] <tc1100> im assuming that xubuntu believes my password shouldnt be that length, but it works fine with my windows computers
[00:56] <tc1100> so how do i get xubuntu to accept the 15 character password
[00:56] <tc1100> ?
[00:56] <bazhang> sounds like you are mistyping it. check the kb repeat rate
[00:57] <knome> or that networkmanager is expecting a hex value
[03:14] <Azelphur> Hey folks, ethernets not working on my PC, hasn't been for a while. dhclient eth0 works as a workaround, heres my syslog for networkmanager http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=wgcBK8Y7 any ideas?
[03:16] <ethermonk> does your ISP support ipv6?
[03:17] <ethermonk> dhcp is enabled in the router? not static address?
[03:17] <Azelphur> ethermonk, everything router side is working. I'm talking to you through my laptop, connected to the router, which is on ethernet.
[03:18] <Azelphur> also, yes my ISP supports ipv6 and that works on the laptop too :)
[03:19] <Azelphur> that's actually why I'm not just continuing to dhclient, I want my IPv6 to work on my PC :)
[03:20] <Azelphur> ethermonk, from that log it seems like network manager is failing to send a DHCP request
[06:42] <ncom0pl> My network and sound applets are gone from the panel after a kernel upgrade, how do I add them back?
[06:49] <TheSheep> ncom0pl: add the indicator applet back to your panel
[06:51] <ncom0pl> ncom0pl: Couldn't find it in the add menu.
[06:51] <ncom0pl> TheSheep: Couldn't find it in the add menu.
[06:52] <ncom0pl> I've installed network-manager-gnome and got network back.
[06:52] <TheSheep> then make sure the xfce4-indicator-plugin is installed
[07:00] <ncom0pl> TheSheep: Okay, it wasn't there. I installed it, but now when I add it, it kinda adds a thin, empty applet to the panel.
[07:02] <TheSheep> I don't use it myself, but I think that the idea is that it displays only the icons that are not already displayed by other means
[07:03] <TheSheep> personally I prefer to use the xfce4-mixer for the speaker icon
[07:04] <TheSheep> by the way, how could a kernel upgrade have uninstalled the indicator plugin?
[07:05] <TheSheep> maybe you also uninstalled some other important things :9
[07:05] <TheSheep> :(
[07:06] <Unit193> I am using volumeicon right now as pulse gives such a fit right now on a computer.
[07:06] <ncom0pl> TheSheep: I have no idea how that could happen, weird to me too.
[09:54] <ethermonk> just installed unity-greeter and cinnamon.  reboot and not seeing any way to choose sessions in Unity greeter login. how to loginto Cinnamon without making it my default?
[09:55] <Sysi> ethermonk: there should be a logo of the default session on top of the passwd box, click it
[09:56] <ethermonk> i see a round circle that is grey, click and nothing happens
[09:58] <ncom0pl> ethermonk: Maybe try lightdm if you're ok with that.
[09:58] <Sysi> unity-greeter is a theme (engine) for lightdm
[09:58] <ethermonk> blah.  nah i wanted to pair it with unity-greeter
[09:58] <ethermonk> oh
[09:59] <ncom0pl> Sorry I wanted to say MDM :).
[09:59] <ethermonk> well lighdm is what xubu uses by default, im just looking to have a pretty login screen like ubuntu
[09:59] <ethermonk> oh
[10:00] <ethermonk> just going for eye candy  :P
[10:02] <Sysi> ethermonk: you should probably ask from cinnamon or mainbuntu gyus, because xubuntu has neither parts of your problem setup
[10:03] <ethermonk> got no response in #ubuntu. ill ask again later
[10:04] <Sysi> yeah, stick around here too in case somebody uses it and responds later
[10:51] <xubuntu140> buongiorno qualcuno sa spiegarmi come far funzionare playonlinux
[10:53] <knome> !it | xubuntu140
[10:54] <xubuntu140> ok
[12:51] <xubuntu555> Hi there...
[12:51] <xubuntu555> Any help from any Voyager 13.10 expert?
[12:52] <Myrtti> well, since this is a Xubuntu IRC channel...
[12:52] <Myrtti> have you tried their channels?
[12:53] <xubuntu555> Get that, but Voyager 13.10 has xubuntu as the whole base...
[12:53] <xubuntu555> They have inside their own links this channel for support...
[12:54] <brainwash> your issue might be voyager specific, so tell us your problem and lets pretend you are using xubuntu
[12:57] <Sysi> I've seen several vouager users here with problems that don't exist on xubuntu, but you can try
[12:59] <xubuntu555> Thanks... The only problem I got is that I am able to work with a dual monitor... When I tried my system is broken... Can't not use it only as the recovery mode. Like I am using it now (with recovery mode)
[12:59] <xubuntu555> Sorry... " ... I am not able to work with dual monitor......"
[13:00] <koegs> and what did you try?
[13:00] <xubuntu555> And I do need to work with dual monitor...
[13:01] <xubuntu555> To work through the system settings...
[13:01] <Sysi> and how is it broken?
[13:02] <xubuntu555> Also tried ARandR but also is not possible....
[13:02] <xubuntu555> The thing is that this only has happened to me with this distro...
[13:03] <xubuntu555> It goes to blank.....
[13:03] <xubuntu555> And I can do nothing....
[13:03] <koegs> xubuntu555: what exactly did you do and what happened?
[13:03] <Sysi> (what I said about voyager)
[13:04] <xubuntu555> The only thing I did was to connect my dual monitor... then tried to configure it and it goes blank.... it was totally blank and nothing I was able to do...
[13:06] <xubuntu555> then I reinstall it all and tried to work with dual monitor through ARandR... but also it was broken too... The same error... It goes blank... Nothing was able to do... Only was able to get into the system through the recovery mode again.
[13:12] <xubuntuser> hello, someone can try this ? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-default-settings/+bug/1272869
[13:14] <xubuntu555> koegs, Sysi? still around?
[13:15] <brainwash> xubuntu555: is this your report? sadly I don't quite understand the problem
[13:16] <brainwash> meh
[13:16] <brainwash> xubuntuser: ^
[13:16] <xubuntuser> Perhaps I fail to explain it well. The menu option for exchange user stops of work if you made some log out
[13:17] <xubuntu555> brainwash, thanks... Yep.... Tried to use dual monitor (on Voyager 13.10, it is built completely with xubuntu 13.10) and it broken my system.
[13:17] <xubuntuser> brainwash ^
[13:18] <xubuntu555> brainwash, can only get it back, shutting it down and then only through the recovery mode and nothing more.
[13:19] <brainwash> xubuntu555: usually you can check the system log files and look for error messages
[13:19] <xubuntuser> I log out for test again
[13:19] <xubuntuser> and the bug appears
[13:20] <brainwash> xubuntuser: ok, but xubuntu-default-settings is not the correct package to file the report against
[13:20] <xubuntuser> xfce-panel perhaps?
[13:20] <brainwash> more likely
[13:21] <Sysi> I normally recommend people to install xubuntu and set it up with voyager themes if they want
[13:21] <brainwash> does "dm-tool switch-to-greeter" redirect you to the login greeter screen?
[13:21] <brainwash> open a terminal window and run this command please
[13:22] <xubuntuser> brainwash its to me ? for me not do nothing
[13:22] <brainwash> no error message?
[13:22] <xubuntuser> no, in any way
[13:23] <brainwash> and is this a clean xubuntu 13.10 installation? or an upgrade from 13.04?
[13:23] <brainwash> oh, it's an upgrade according to the bug report
[13:23] <xubuntuser> its an upgrade from 13.04, yes, but I remember happen on a clean install also ,from 13.10
[13:24] <xubuntuser> nobody use xubuntu here? in reality is easy bug to test
[13:25] <xubuntuser> but always, from every install i made ( i had xubuntu on several pcs, hds, usb sticks, etc) happen the same on every of them
[13:25] <brainwash> login, logout and then try to switch the user via the panel menu?
[13:26] <brainwash> oh, missed a login after the logut :)
[13:26] <xubuntuser> its like follows : log out , log in, then try to switch user
[13:27] <xubuntuser> if you found the same problem, there is another fact about :
[13:27] <brainwash> most likely it's something caused by lightdm and/or logind
[13:27] <brainwash> and not directly by Xfce
[13:28] <xubuntuser> i think the same
[13:28] <xubuntuser> now try this :
[13:28] <xubuntuser> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-default-settings/+bug/1272902
[13:28] <xubuntuser> is related, of course
[13:29] <brainwash> yes, it is
[13:30] <xubuntuser> lubuntu uses the same login than xubuntu ?
[13:30] <xubuntuser> I remember this bug also using lubuntu and installing the xubuntu desktop later
[13:30] <xubuntuser> but the login screen was from lubuntu
[13:31] <brainwash> it does, lightdm + logind for seat/session management
[13:31] <brainwash> some log files might be helpful here
[13:32] <xubuntuser> omg so fun about that ... yesterday my /var/log/kernel goes gigasize yesterday
[13:33] <xubuntuser> but that is another thing, i will search thats logs, thanks you
[13:33] <brainwash> try ~/.cache/upstart
[13:33] <brainwash> and /var/log/lightdm
[13:35] <xubuntu555> Ooopssss.... I am totally lost about your conversation (brainwash and xubuntuser)....
[13:36] <xubuntu555> Sysi, thanks for the advise... about installing xubuntu and then trying Voyager Themes.
[13:36] <xubuntuser> brb
[13:37] <brainwash> xubuntu555: by changing the screen setup via arandr you are not able to get to the login screen anymore?
[13:39] <xubuntu555> Yep... also not able... it also goes blank too... and can do nothing at all, just shutting it down and then login only by the recovery mode.
[14:14] <xubuntu555> Seems you are too busy. Thanks brainwash. Have to leave for domestic stuff.
[17:14] <starrats> What is the best way to partition a hard drive that has windows 7 and I want to incorporate xubuntu 13-10 on to the HD, I have tried numersous times and just would like a simple answer to my predicament.  Thank you in adavance.  Oh by the way I have been using the win7 partitioning app.he
[17:14] <starrats> just app at the end no .he
[17:21] <elfy> starrats: really depends on what the drive is set up like already, but if you want to use the win disk tool to shrink it - then when you boot the live dvd/usb - use something else in the partitioner and set / and swap up in there in the unallocated space
[17:21] <elfy> the win tool won't format it in any useful way
[17:22] <starrats> ah okay elfy will be working on that
[18:59] <z4nD4R> Hi all, any tip to tune XFCE?
[19:00] <Myrtti> "don't add too many apps to autostart"
[19:01] <z4nD4R> I don't have problem with apps in autostart.. I thought something .. different.. coupled with look :)
[19:14] <blocky> is the xubuntu iso just regular ubuntu with xfce packages included and xfce set as default wm?
[19:14] <koegs> blocky: basically yes
[19:14] <Myrtti> blocky: and without Unity and Ubuntu Desktop default apps that aren't the same as Xubuntus, yes
[19:15] <blocky> Myrtti: those apps are not set as default or not included at all?
[19:15] <Myrtti> not included
[19:15] <blocky> ah ok
[19:15] <Myrtti> ie. firefox is included in both
[19:15] <Myrtti> if I'm not mistaken
[19:15] <blocky> i am thinking of installing the 14.04 alpha for fun
[19:15] <Myrtti> LibreOffice or Abiword is not
[19:16] <Myrtti> (ie Libre is in Ubuntu, Abi is in Xubuntu) again if I'm not mistaken
[19:17] <blocky> if i install the xubuntu alpha 1 can I just do apt-get update to make it essentially alpha 2?
[19:17] <Myrtti> yup
[19:21] <z4nD4R> does XFCE has some roadmap?
[19:23] <brainwash> z4nD4R: http://wiki.xfce.org/releng/4.12/roadmap (slightly outdated)
[19:24] <brainwash> and here is Xubuntu's roadmap for 14.04 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap
[19:25] <z4nD4R> brainwash: I suppose the xubu roadmap ist the same like ubu roadmap.. I was wondering about news in 4.12 :)
[19:26] <brainwash> the xubuntu roadmap is xubuntu specific
[19:26] <brainwash> sadly no new information regarding Xfce 4.12
[19:27] <z4nD4R> brainwash: but basicaly is the same like.. Ubu.. 14.04 will be LTS to, won't be? .. .. that's realy sad.
[19:28] <brainwash> did you actually take a look at the roadmap?
[19:28] <z4nD4R> brainwash: no .. didn't .. w8
[19:43] <z4nD4R> brainwash: I've done it already..the page links on Ubu roadmap.. however.. My qusetion is more coupled to XFCE, tune XFCE .. etc..
[19:44] <brainwash> z4nD4R: well, this is the #xubuntu channel, try asking in #xfce then
[19:46] <z4nD4R> brainwash: yes yes I know, but maybe you have some tip&tricks :) ie. some nice looking conky .. or..
[19:49] <Sysi> whatever you think looks nice and suits your needs
[19:49] <brainwash> this is a support channel, talking about non related topics like customizations should be done in #xubuntu-offtopic
[19:50] <z4nD4R> Sysi: such a nice diplomatic answer.. :P
[19:50] <z4nD4R> brainwash: o sry .. I hope I didn't make such a OT
[19:50] <brainwash> don't worry :)
[20:25] <r0b-> anyone running Xubuntu 13.10 with a newer ATI Graphics card?
[20:25] <r0b-> like HD5xxx or newer.
[20:27]  * r0b- cant seem to get the Proprietary driver to work properly.
[20:40] <r0b-> it has to do with me running an Xorg version newer than 1.13
[20:50] <TheSheep> r0b-: well, report a bug to ATI, I guess
[20:50] <TheSheep> r0b-: be sure to ask them to finally open up their drivers too
[20:50] <r0b-> sigh that probably wont work.
[20:51] <TheSheep> alternatively, don't buy from producers who don't provide open source drivers, maybe that message will be cleaner
[20:52] <r0b-> well i found this guide http://wiki.cchtml.com/index.php/Ubuntu_Saucy_Installation_Guide
[20:53] <rww> TheSheep: never heard of the 'radeon' driver :P?
[20:55] <r0b-> Or i will go back to Xubuntu 12.04.
[20:58] <r0b-> but i think xubuntu 12.04.3 is the same problem
[23:13] <aphtk> Hi...new Ubuntu user here!
[23:14] <aphtk> would like to backup personal DVDs using acid rip ... but having region problems
[23:14] <aphtk> used to be libdvdcss was available
[23:14] <aphtk> is it still here?
[23:16] <aphtk> any help here ppl?


[07:05] <bladernr_> ayone around?
[12:20] <Murali> Hi all
[12:21] <Murali> I need some help in MAAS setting up
[12:23] <Murali> I am trying to set-up the maas server in one of the VM created in the openstack compute and from the same VM I would like to deploy the juju charms to other vm's on the same compute node
[12:24] <Murali> can somebody justify is it fusible way to deploy
[12:56] <jasonamyers> good morning
[16:56] <roaksoax> jasonamyers: morning :)


[00:00] <OvenWerks> Smartovens2013
[04:25] <OvenWerks> 472472
[21:31] <TheDrums> Howdy, just a reminder that the https://ubuntustudio.org "Issued certificate has expired.", may want to contact IS/Elmo.
[21:35] <zequence> TheDrums: Thanks. Will take care of that directly
[21:36] <zequence> also, ubuntustudio.com is not redirecting to ubuntustudio.org, instead has its own apache server
[21:37] <TheDrums> (Elmo was on just a couple minutes ago too.)  It was first pointed out in #ubuntustudio, not by me.
[21:38] <zequence> I created rt tickets for both just now


[02:32] <sgo11> darkxst, hi, sorry to interrupt you. did you see my last comment in bug #1288572 ? should I fire another bug for this issue? thanks.
[03:51] <darkxst> sgo11, gdm works fine with multiple monitors here
[03:52] <darkxst> sgo11, ocassionally when I do get flickering of second monitor it will go away after switching to a VT and back
[03:53] <darkxst> sgo11, and that is most likely a bug in the nvidia driver
[04:19] <sgo11> darkxst, I can always reproduce this flickering issue. 100%. It will not go away after switching to a VT and back here. Do I need to fire another bug for this? thanks.
[05:26] <darkxst> sgo11, yes file another bug
[05:27] <sgo11> darkxst, do I need to wait your fix released before opening another bug? Your gdm fix is not released yet and I am using your gdm now.
[05:28] <darkxst> does it happen with lightdm also?
[05:29] <sgo11> darkxst, no. lightdm is fine.
[05:32] <darkxst> and does it persist after you login to gnome-shell?
[05:35] <sgo11> darkxst, no. gnome-shell is working fine with multiple displays. I have to clarify this: I can not login to gnome-shell in gdm with multiple displays. since it's flickering btw grey and black background. I can not see user account etc.. What I did is: login to gnome-shell with one display setup and then plugged in another external VGA monitor after login. gnome-shell works fine with this.
[05:36] <darkxst> ok
[05:36] <darkxst> file a bug
[05:37] <sgo11> darkxst, ok. I am using "<IP_ADDRESS>-0ubuntu4~trusty2" your ppa version. hopefully that is OK for opening a bug.
[05:38] <darkxst> apport will refuse to file it probably
[05:38] <sgo11> darkxst, I am running ubuntu-bug now. chose Xorg.
[05:48] <sgo11> darkxst, bug #1297630
[05:52] <darkxst> sgo11, do add details of the external monitor, DVI/HDMI etc? and xrandr -q output
[05:52] <sgo11> it's VGA. I will add it.
[05:55] <sgo11> darkxst, comment added. thanks.
[05:58] <darkxst> at a wild guess its trying to clone the 1920x1080 onto the laptop display
[05:59] <darkxst> which obviously your laptop wouldnt be able to display
[06:26] <Noskcaj> darkxst, Are there any 3.12 components you want?
[06:27] <Noskcaj> I think gnome-backgrounds is worthwhile, since it's just translation fixes from our current version
[06:27] <darkxst> yeh that can be updated, but not right now
[06:28] <darkxst> given its beta freeze
[06:28] <Noskcaj> yep. I'll just build up some sync bugs while the freeze is up
[07:28] <x-Na> darkxst, steps to reproduce added to the bug
[09:52] <x-Na> darkxst, I'll try to get the backtrace when I get back @ home from work.
[20:42] <Noskcaj> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7158954/
[20:58] <Noskcaj> darkxst, Should we package the new alacarte release? From what i understand, it's needed for the package to function
[20:59] <darkxst> Noskcaj, is there a bug report for that?
[21:00] <Noskcaj> lp:1244087 lp:1259717 lp:1277868 lp:1235994 and lp:1249603 should all be related, i'm not sure if all are fixed
[21:00] <Noskcaj> but the 3.10 release was why xubuntu had to drop alacarte
[21:02] <darkxst> those bugs are all from 13.10?
[21:03] <Noskcaj> alacarte 3.10 was part of 13.10
[21:08] <Noskcaj> although now the build is failing with http://paste.ubuntu.com/7159088/
[21:10] <darkxst> Noskcaj, if its really broken and you can confirm the update fixes it, then it will be fine
[21:10] <darkxst> the main thing now is that all uploads have a clear bugwork trail
[21:10] <Noskcaj> yep
[21:11] <Noskcaj> then, um, Is anyone able to test the new alacarte release for me?
[21:11] <darkxst> Noskcaj, that looks like your internet being flaky?
[21:11] <darkxst> why don't you test it!
[21:12] <Noskcaj> The fact that this laptop is incredibly broken as it is, and would probably crash from installing it
[21:13] <Noskcaj> and i'm not sure if it works on xfce4-whiskermenu
[21:14] <Noskcaj> I'll try and test it when i get home from school if no one else has
[21:15] <darkxst> ok
[21:20] <Noskcaj> also, http://paste.ubuntu.com/7158954/ is my todo list for the next few days, if you can update any of them, it would be great
[21:20] <Noskcaj> but i have school now, bye
[23:30] <morsch> hi there
[23:30] <morsch> I cross-installed ubuntu gnome desktop on my otherwise vanilla ubuntu 14.04 install
[23:31] <morsch> and I'm now in a gnome session
[23:31] <morsch> but I'm getting trippy graphics artefacts
[23:31] <morsch> known issue?
[23:33] <morsch> this is what I'm talking about http://i.imgur.com/Ji3UPjg.png


 :D
[06:41] <tsimonq2> dholbach: where were you hiding? :P
[06:43] <dholbach> I was on holidays
[06:43] <dholbach> how are you all doing?
[06:44]  * Kilos leaving for holiday in 20 hours
[06:46] <dholbach> very nice!
[06:46] <tsimonq2> good dholbach :)
[06:47] <tsimonq2> dholbach: what holiday?
[06:47] <dholbach> ?
[06:47] <dholbach> holidays
[06:47] <dholbach> vacation
[06:48] <tsimonq2> oh ok
[06:48] <dholbach> :-)
[06:48]  * dholbach relocates to the office, bbiab
[06:48] <tsimonq2> I didn't know if it was for a specific event :)
[06:48] <Kilos> lol
[07:23] <Mister_Q> dpm just want to let you know I took the day off to finish ubucontest. Will get it done today :)
[07:25] <dpm> good morning Mister_Q. Oh wow, thanks! But enjoy your day off, no need to take it all for the ubucontest!
[07:27] <Mister_Q> I hope it doesn't take the whole day but even then that's fine
[07:27] <Mister_Q> good morning :D
[07:30] <tsimonq2> o/ Mister_Q dpm
[07:30] <Mister_Q> tsimonq2 o/
[07:30] <dpm> morning tsimonq2
[07:31] <dpm> welcome back dholbach :)
[07:31] <dholbach> hey dpm
[07:37] <Mister_Q> any recommendations for an irc bouncer ?
[07:40] <tsimonq2> Mister_Q: what IRC client do you use?
[07:40] <Mister_Q> hexchat
[07:41] <tsimonq2> hmmm
[07:42] <tsimonq2> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[07:44] <Mister_Q> thanks anyway :D
[07:47] <svij> morning
[07:47] <svij> Mister_Q: znc
[07:47] <Mister_Q> morning svij will try that thanks
[07:48] <svij> dpm: morning! Can you submit your talk today?
[07:50] <svij> popey: and you too? :)
[07:51] <Mister_Q> morning svij will try that thanks (dont know if that send before. I'm on a train atm)
[07:51] <svij> ... yes...
[07:56] <tsimonq2> I'm off to bed o/
[07:57] <dholbach> good night tsimonq2
[07:59] <svij> Mister_Q: yes
[07:59] <svij> oh hey dholbach, how was your holidays?
[07:59] <Mister_Q> svij, thats why I need an irc bouncer :D
[07:59] <dholbach> very nice, thanks - how are you? :)
[08:00] <svij> currently driving crazy (exam time /o\)
[08:00] <dpm> svij, yep!
[08:01] <svij> dpm: thanks!
[08:01] <dholbach> ouch... when are the next exams?
[08:01] <svij> tomorrow
[08:01]  * dholbach crosses fingers then
[08:02] <svij> and two (or three) in three weeks.
[08:02] <svij> thanks :)
[08:13] <svij> dpm: can you also message mark/claire today?
[14:33] <mhall119> dpm: call time?
[14:34] <dpm> mhall119, sorry, this dholbach guy just talks and talks
[14:34] <dpm> mhall119, omw :)
[14:34] <dholbach> I know...
[14:34] <mhall119> really? I've barely heard a peep out of him in weeks
[14:34] <dholbach> haha
[14:35] <Kilos> lol
[15:40] <mhall119> pleia2: ping, do you have the script we used to get ubuntu member email addresses for civs voting? The Kubuntu Council needs to use it for the same purpose
[15:40] <pleia2> mhall119: yep, sec
[15:42] <pleia2> mhall119: https://github.com/YokoZar/lp-election-helper
[15:42] <mhall119> thanks pleia2
[15:43] <pleia2> sure thing
[15:55] <dholbach> all right ... I call it a day - see you all tomorrow again!
[15:55] <Kilos> cheers dholbach
[15:55] <Kilos> see you sometime
[15:56] <dholbach> Kilos, enjoy your holidays!
[15:57] <dholbach> and see the rest of you tomorrow! :-)
[15:57] <Kilos> ty dholbach im sure i will
[15:57] <dholbach> :)
[20:41] <ahoneybun> that AMA idea is cool
[20:41] <ahoneybun> pleia2: ^
[20:41] <pleia2> I think it was knome's idea
[20:42] <pleia2> (wasn't mine)
[20:42] <ahoneybun> but all our questions would be 'when are we getting Plasma x.x.x'
[20:42] <pleia2> not, "cake or pie?"
[20:42] <ahoneybun> plasma is not slow paced with releases like xfce
[20:43] <pleia2> it's nice to be old and less shiny ;)
[20:47] <ahoneybun> sometimes
[20:47] <ahoneybun> we're not super shiny
[20:48] <jcastro> popey: man
[20:48] <jcastro> I'm not one to normally run scripts on omgubuntu, especially when they ask for sudo
[20:48] <jcastro> but dang, this flattened unity desktop icon thing, is lovely


[01:13] <nigelb> mhall119: one more bug down :)
[01:14] <mhall119> and it's not even Friday yet
[01:14] <mhall119> well, i mean it is for you
[01:14] <mhall119> but not me
[01:14] <mhall119> good morning, by the way
[01:14] <nigelb> morning :)
[01:14] <nigelb> today seems a good day altogether
[01:14] <mhall119> yay
[01:14] <nigelb> India kicked australia last night in the world cup :p
[01:15] <mhall119> have you started your new job yet?
[01:15] <nigelb> Nope
[01:15] <nigelb> I'm hoping 3rd April.
[01:15] <nigelb> You got your nw job after me and you're already 1 week into it!
[01:15] <mhall119> dude, even I'm tired of waiting for you to be done there now
[01:16] <nigelb> oh yeah? Think about me!
[01:16] <mhall119> give me your boss's email, I'll have you off the job tomorrow ;)
[01:17] <nigelb> haha
[06:53] <YoBoY> good morning
[07:40] <dholbach> good morning
[10:08] <cjohnston> mornin
[10:10] <nigelb> cjohnston: its early
[10:10] <cjohnston> 610
[10:10] <cjohnston> todays b shift
[10:10] <nigelb> DST.  Ugh, I hate tz.
[10:37] <czajkowski> aloha
[11:32] <mhall119> nigelb: didn't I warn you?
[12:26] <cjohnston> lol mhall119
[12:39] <Ronnie> mhall119: ping
[12:43] <mhall119> Ronnie: pong
[12:43] <Ronnie> im currently brainstorming on the virtual event
[12:43] <mhall119> in the wiki I hope
[12:43] <Ronnie> currently on xmind
[12:44] <Ronnie> results will be on the wiki tough
[12:44] <mhall119> ok
[12:44] <mhall119> so what are your thoughts?
[12:44] <Ronnie> if we add another event, which share almost all the functions, it could become a complete mess
[12:45] <mhall119> I agree
[12:45] <Ronnie> currently im investigating to have 1 type of event (on the backend)
[12:45] <mhall119> I wanted to just add 2 new fields to TeamEvent
[12:45] <Ronnie> and show it to the user as 3 different events (normal event, meeting and virtual)
[12:45] <mhall119> I don't want to separate physical and virtual events
[12:45] <mhall119> I consider them both "events"
[12:46] <Ronnie> thats ok too
[12:46] <Ronnie> but im event thinking a meeting as an event (on the backend)
[12:46] <mhall119> it's just a matter of collecting the info needed to make our TeamEvent capable of supporting online participation
[12:46] <mhall119> no, meetings collect different information
[12:47] <mhall119> in the community, meetings and events are different things
[12:47] <Ronnie> i think meetings can be the same on the backend
[12:47] <Ronnie> i think we even may be able to support 'classes'
[12:48] <Ronnie> and maybe other types of 'events'
[12:49] <Ronnie> meetings for example can also be physical and remote combination
[12:49] <Ronnie> the meeting has a chair, but other events (like classes) could have a chair/teacher too
[12:50] <Ronnie> each event could have some sort of log (meeting minutes, chatlog, audio/video log, some wiki page, flick photo's)
[12:53] <cjohnston> I like having a little selecter that you check which type of event, and then it displays venue, channel, or venue and channel based on your choice
[12:53] <Ronnie> cjohnston: indeed, but have only one 'backend'
[12:53] <cjohnston> ya.. thats on just the current create event page
[12:55] <cjohnston> Event Name
[12:55] <cjohnston> Begins
[12:55] <cjohnston> Ends
[12:55] <cjohnston> Type (in person, vitrual, mixed)
[12:55] <cjohnston> description
[12:55] <cjohnston> announcement
[12:55] <cjohnston> etc
[12:56] <cjohnston> and then if you tick in person it displays venue, virtual it displays a box for entering a channel, mixed it displays both
[12:56] <cjohnston> on the same page we already have
[12:58] <Ronnie> http://ubuntuone.com/p/jPK/
[12:58] <Ronnie> this is my brainstorm part
[12:58] <Ronnie> i think we should not be limited to IRC chat only
[13:04] <YoBoY> Ronnie: missing "content" (description, meeting agenda, ...) in your reflexion :)
[13:05] <Ronnie> indeed, missing a lot of stuff :)
[13:05] <Ronnie> ill add is asap
[13:05] <YoBoY> not so much
[13:26] <Ronnie> http://ubuntuone.com/p/jPK/
[13:26] <Ronnie> updated, YoBoY, cjohnston: do you have any noted on this map?
[13:26] <mhall119> Ronnie: little steps, we can limit to IRC only for now, and expand more later
[13:27] <YoBoY> seems a bit complicate for me ^^"
[13:28] <mhall119> YoBoY: we already have most of that
[13:29] <mhall119> he's just trying to group similar data items into logical categories
[13:30] <YoBoY> mhall119: yes I know, I was just refering to his schema
[13:30] <Ronnie> mhall119: yes, but we have to watch to not build too much on IRC, because it can be hard to add other items
[13:31] <Ronnie> others are uesually easy. for example: skype, you only need to provide username
[13:31] <mhall119> Ronnie: but we'll cover at least 80% of the use cases with very little effort
[13:32] <mhall119> we can add 2 fields to TeamEvent and get almost as much benefit as we would refactoring the entire data structure
[13:32] <mhall119> with much fewer introduced bugs
[13:33] <YoBoY> how this is developed ? a main class and sub classes for each type of events ? or one class to rule them all ?
[13:35] <Ronnie> mhall119: we can indeed easily solve this by adding two fields. thats a quick fix, but not future stable
[13:36] <Ronnie> when we keep adding single fields for everything without thinking, the app will be unmaintainable in the future
[13:36] <YoBoY> +1
[13:36] <mhall119> I agree
[13:37] <mhall119> but on the other hand, major refactoring doesn't come without a price either
[13:37] <mhall119> the question is just where to draw the line
[13:37] <Ronnie> so we could add those fields to solve the bug, but in maintime we need to make progress on the 'buigger part'
[13:37] <mhall119> +1 on that
[13:51] <Ronnie> should it be possible (in the new concept) to have multiple physical/remote locations?
[13:53] <Ronnie> for example a classroom, can have to IRC chatrooms, but if thats the only example. i think we should restrict to one physical and one remote
[13:53] <Ronnie> mhall119, YoBoY ^
[13:53] <Ronnie> to = two
[14:01] <YoBoY> chat channels can be referenced in the description, not really necessary to have them as part of the location. Btw when we need a separated channel for chat, we also have more than one with the foreign language channels
[14:03] <YoBoY> we can't put all the informations in separated fields, I can think of so many links we can add to only one event, it's overwhelming ^^"
[14:04] <mhall119> Ronnie: I think trying to cover the classroom requirements is too much for this feature
[14:05] <YoBoY> keep it simple, and if you want to add more, we can always create a token/micro-content/something object containing (linked_event, type, content) where we can put tags, urls, hashtag, photo_stream, facebook pages, ...
[18:03] <mhall119> does anybody know if/how well CDMA phones work in Europe?
[18:04] <nigelb> mhall119: -uk might be a good place to ask
[18:05] <mhall119> I'm not concerned about hungary, actually
[18:06] <cjohnston> not concerned about hungary?
[18:06] <cjohnston> we bought a sim card over there in belgium to not have to pay
[18:06] <cjohnston> the international rates
[18:07] <mhall119> cjohnston: I don't think you can do that with cdma phones though
[18:07] <cjohnston> dunno
[18:10] <Pendulum> mhall119: generally pretty badly in Europe
[18:11] <mhall119> I'm wondering if I should switch carriers
[18:11] <Pendulum> (Verizon phones as a rule don't work except for a couple phones that I think you can 'borrow' and pay their ridiculous fees to use)
[18:11] <mhall119> it's unfortunate, cause they have the best coverage and service around here
[18:12] <Pendulum> you might be better off to either use phone cards and landlines or to see if you can get a cheap PAYG phone once you're over
[18:12] <mhall119> yeah, I think paygo is what I'll end up doing
[18:12] <mhall119> I still need an andoid phone though...
[18:12] <Pendulum> I'm on AT&T and while I certainly can (and do) use it in Europe, it's expensive to do so
[18:13] <Pendulum> (and I just turn data roaming off because it's soooo expensive)
[18:13] <mhall119> well there will be wifi at the hotel at least
[18:13] <Pendulum> yeah
[18:13] <mhall119> so I can get a cheap paygo phone for calls if I want to
[18:13] <Pendulum> tbh, in Brussels I barely used my phone
[18:13] <Pendulum> I used it early on to hook up with people
[18:13] <Pendulum> but used skype to call hom
[18:14] <mhall119> so, HTC Incredible or Samsung Galaxy S
[18:14] <Pendulum> *home
[18:14] <mhall119> or Droid 2
[18:14] <Pendulum> I know people who've loved their Droids (probably of those 3 it's the one I've heard the most raving about)
[18:15] <Pendulum> (that said, I don't know if I know anyone with an Incredible)
[18:17] <mhall119> my brother has an incredible and has been happy with it
[22:08] <newuser> I have a question for the professionals of linux based programming, my question is can linux programming be compatible with pc,mac operating systems and the internet? Thank you for the response.
[22:13] <mhall119> newuser: I don't quite understand
[22:15] <mhall119> newuser: you mean can you write a program for linux, and run it on Windows or OSX?
[22:17] <newuser> It's ok. I'll figure out. Thanks for the help
[22:26] <mhall119> heh