[00:56] <studio-user970> hello everyone!
[00:57] <studio-user970> jf
[23:30] <imenator> Hello everyone, I got an HP Ellitebook 8470p and just installed Ubuntu Studio 17.04 on it. The Wifi and Ethernet cards are properly listed by the networking tool in the taskbar as well as lshwd. These two can connect to networks and get IP assigned by DHCPs, however for some reason I cannot connect to internet.
[23:31] <imenator> I know my internet connection is fine is I am using the same router to connect from the laptop I am wrinting from rigth now.
[23:32] <imenator> I can ping to nodes in my home network but I cannot get a ping reply from simple urls like www.google.com
[23:33] <imenator> The ethernet interface is an Intel 82579LM, the wifi interface is an Intel centrino Advanced-N 6205 for which the distro seems to already have the corresponding intel firmware blobs at /lib/firmware
[23:34] <imenator> Any suggestions on how to narrow down the problem? The cards were working fine on windows before I tried to install Ubuntu Studio, that is why I know it is related to the distro.
[23:38] <imenator> By the way, the BIOS was configure for legacy mode startup.


[00:26] <kim0> pleia2: hey :) I didn't know about that page .. is that some aggregator ?
[00:26] <kim0> pleia2: this youtube is an iframe (which seems to be the new preferred way) it seems it got stripped somehow
[00:27] <pleia2> I don't know what it is :) but it shows up in google searches pretty highly
[00:33] <kim0> pleia2: ok I just switched back to normal youtube embed .. guess it should show in a few mins .. Thanks for the heads up :)
[00:33] <pleia2> sure thing
[00:39] <nhandler> kim0: Looking through the results of a google search for 'site:http://www.ubuntu.com/content/', it looks like that is a mirror of Canonical Voices (or at least shows the same posts)
[02:34] <doctormo> greg-g: you might have to explain 1) to me some more.
[02:39] <greg-g> ahh, k... lemme read again what I said :)
[02:39] <greg-g> doctormo: the header of the second section where it explains CC licenses
[02:40] <greg-g> A) The Commons, 2) The Creative Commons, 3) Free and Open Source
[02:40] <greg-g> change 2) to "Free Culture"
[02:40] <greg-g> is my suggestion
[02:42] <doctormo> greg-g: I think I understand what your saying, having Creative Commons be a company is really complicating the ability to spread the ideas.
[02:43] <greg-g> well, Free Culture is a pretty well recognized and agreed upon phrase to refer to what you're tlaking about, really.
[02:44] <greg-g> and, as I said, is more closely related, semanticly, with Free/Open Source Software
[02:44] <greg-g> semantically* (ignore my ignorance on spelling right now, head cold)
[02:44] <doctormo> greg-g: Now I have to come up with a new title for the poster
[02:44] <greg-g> Free Culture doesn't work?
[02:45] <greg-g> why's that?
[02:46] <doctormo> greg-g: Free Culture can not both include Free and Open Source and exclude it.
[02:46] <doctormo> As a title of the whole thing I had it include FOSS and basic Commons. Now I have to think again.
[02:46] <greg-g> oh, I see
[02:47] <greg-g> hmmm
[02:53] <greg-g> doctormo: 2 ideas. 1) how about just the subtitle as the title? So, the title being "Sharing Ideas Freely"
[02:53] <greg-g> or 2) Leaving the "The Creative Commons" (but changing that first sentence of that section)
[02:54] <greg-g> (and keeping the current Free Culture title)
[02:57] <doctormo> greg-g: Would I get hunted down by mad dogs for using the trademark like that?
[03:00] <doctormo> greg-g: got any more examples of solid creative commons using projects?
[03:01] <greg-g> doctormo: I think you'll be fine :)
[03:01] <greg-g> and, lets see. You want music/movies?
[03:01] <nigelb> Morning.
[03:01] <greg-g> Nine Inch Nails, of course. Or Blender Foundation with it's movies
[03:02] <greg-g> flickr
[03:03] <doctormo> I'm not sure how solid Blender is with it's CC, flickr is about as CC as deviantArt I thought.
[03:03] <doctormo> I wonder if there are any educational projects, making course materials etc
[03:03] <greg-g> oh, MIT OCW
[03:04] <greg-g> Probably expand OCW to OpenCourseWare for clearness sake
[03:05] <JanC> “Dive Into Python 3” is a CC-BY-SA book
[03:05] <greg-g> good one, a lot of O'reilly books are now, right?
[03:06] <greg-g> also, PLoS (Public Library of Science, a publisher of Open Access and CC-licensed scientific journals)
[03:07] <greg-g> (CC:BY, actually, which is awesome)
[03:08] <nigelb> OCW is awesome.
[03:10] <greg-g> gotta put in a plug for a project I worked/work on: Open.Michigan, open.umich.edu  Sorry, couldn't help it :)
[03:13] <doctormo> OK I've updated the creative commons part, the title font and the foss text. Could you review rev 12 for me?
[03:13] <doctormo> http://imagebin.org/131406
[03:19] <greg-g> doctormo: capitalize the W in OpenCourseWare :)
[03:19] <greg-g> doctormo: also, that first sentence isn't reading clearly to me
[03:19] <doctormo> which first?
[03:20] <greg-g> the first of the CC section, sorry :)
[03:21] <doctormo> It's almost word for word the paragraph you gave me.
[03:21] <greg-g> almost
[03:21] <greg-g> there's an extra which
[03:21] <greg-g> and the creators don't give the license to anyone
[03:22] <doctormo> The only problem with your replacement, was that it doesn't flow well in the box.
[03:23] <greg-g> ah, well, if you stay with your wording, change the first which to "that"
[03:23] <doctormo> that's what I get for pasting without taking out the crlfs
[03:24] <greg-g> :)
[03:24] <doctormo> ok we have an exact match
[03:25] <doctormo> greg-g: Now the ultimate test, if I printed one out and sent it to you, would you have the courage to post it up in your library?
[03:25] <greg-g> definitely
[03:26] <doctormo> The aim here was to produce something that could say a lot, in a short space, without being boring.
[03:27] <greg-g> I think you did a good job, doctormo
[04:55] <nigelb> jcastro: around?
[05:09] <jono> http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/01/07/making-ubuntu-more-personal/
[05:11] <nigelb> deep post :)
[07:22] <dholbach> good morning
[07:41] <jussi> morning all
[08:30] <nigelb> Morning dholbach , jussi
[08:30] <nigelb> jussi: is the leg better?
[08:30] <jussi> nigelb: no.
[08:30] <dholbach> hi nigelb
[08:30]  * nigelb hugs jussi
[08:30] <jussi> nigelb: still hurts like **** but its getting there.
[08:31] <nigelb> jussi: I had an ankle strain from the accident.  I know how it feels.
[09:18] <czajkowski> Aloha
[13:58] <jcastro> buenas mornings
[13:59] <dholbach> hola jcastro
[15:20] <jcastro> ok, so the social network soundtrack is pretty awesome
[15:38] <czajkowski> not usually a lover of this kinda music http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJ0sW7KOFhU  however today it's helping dealing with my inbox from hell
[15:55] <duanedesign_> hello all. HOpe the new year is treating everyone well.
[16:00] <jcastro> hi duanedesign_
[16:02] <duanedesign_> hello mr castro.
[16:03] <nigelb> hey jcastro, duanedesign_
[16:03] <nigelb> jcastro: thanks for reply :)
[16:03] <duanedesign_> mr nigel hello
[16:04] <jcastro> nigelb: which one, "I have no clue ask jono?" :)
[16:05] <nigelb> jcastro: that one :p
[16:05] <nigelb> jcastro: Will you be coming?
[16:05] <jcastro> no
[16:05] <jcastro> I know some people are going from Canonical, I am not sure who though
[16:05] <nigelb> jcastro: any of the folks the community might know/
[16:06] <jcastro> not sure, I would think so
[16:06] <nigelb> hrm
[16:06] <nigelb> I missed uds very badly.
[16:06] <duanedesign_> what are we talking about?
[16:06] <nigelb> should've been there.
[16:06] <duanedesign_> we missed you nigelb
[16:06] <nigelb> duanedesign_: Ubuntu developer day in Bangalore.
[16:07] <duanedesign_> aha
[16:07] <nigelb> duanedesign_: I missed you all too.
[16:07] <duanedesign_> i'd love to go to india
[16:07] <nigelb> jcastro: would you have time for a PM?
[16:08] <jcastro> give me a few hours
[16:09] <jcastro> I need to undig myself out of a hole
[16:09] <nigelb> jcastro: hah, sort of similar here.
[16:11]  * czajkowski offers jcastro a JCB digger
[16:15] <akgraner> woo hoo had to share - can't help it - the main part of the house is in and they are setting the roof now - woo hoo !!!  Happy Freakin' Dance Time - just had to share
[16:15] <akgraner> ps - missed y'all!  More later :-)
[16:15] <czajkowski> wow that was quick
[16:16] <czajkowski> then I remember yer build houses on timber frames
[16:16] <czajkowski> akgraner: nice!
[16:16] <akgraner> it seemed slow to me - but the reality is  - it's guick..
[16:17] <akgraner> I chose a modular that was a demo model - so we didn't have to wait for them to build all the pieces, they were already to go...
[16:17] <akgraner> just had to wait on insurance, and the weather to line up
[16:18] <czajkowski> akgraner: fantastic news, congrats
[16:19] <popey> yay akgraner !
[16:19] <popey> nice one
[16:20] <akgraner> thanks popey !  I have this box I need to send your house - it might make there by spring :-/
[16:20] <akgraner> anywho..I won't distract you all any more... have a super-fantabulas day - weekend etc... - thanks y'all ! <insert a million silly grins here)  gotta go do some work now..but like Frosty, I'll be back again some day!
[16:21] <czajkowski> akgraner: toodles
[16:22] <dholbach> alright my friends - I call it a day - see you all on monday - have a great WE!
[16:23] <nigelb> good night dholbach
[16:23] <czajkowski> dholbach: toodles
[16:24]  * popey thinks having "toodles" on hilight was unwise when I share so many channels with czajkowski
[16:24] <czajkowski> oops
[16:24] <czajkowski> sorry
[16:35] <popey> not your fault
[16:36] <nigelb> popey: hey
[16:40] <popey> hullo nigelb
[16:40] <popey> hows tricks?
[16:46] <nigelb> popey: not bad
[16:47] <nigelb> popey: I managed to get somone for the security talk :D
[16:47] <nigelb> popey: Now I'm trying to figure out, how to get you in it
[16:47] <nigelb> :D
[16:50] <nigelb> popey: it = user days
[16:50] <jcastro> jono: camera reminder
[16:52] <jono> jcastro cheers
[16:53] <jcastro> rally checklist
[16:53] <jcastro> laptop - check
[16:54] <jcastro> camera - check
[16:54] <jcastro> flying v - dang, won't fit in luggage
[16:54] <nigelb> flying WHAT?
[16:54] <popey> nigelb: i already said yes, and offered a couple of talks
[16:54] <nigelb> popey: oh.
[16:55] <nigelb> popey: What do you want me to put you down for?
[16:59] <popey> I'll have a think and edit the wiki later
[16:59] <popey> remind me if i dont
[16:59] <nigelb> sure, will
[16:59] <nigelb> will do
[16:59]  * czajkowski reminds popey about other stuff
[16:59] <popey> I'm in this evening, feel free :)
[16:59]  * czajkowski sends popey to the bold corner
[17:01] <JFo> the  corner
[17:02]  * JFo doesn't remember his html...
[17:02] <JFo> not positive that is bold :-)
[17:02] <JFo> <-not in possesion of clue today
[17:03] <czajkowski> JFo: careful or you'll follow him mister
[17:03]  * czajkowski is dealing with twats in hotels today who don't seem to want the work
[17:05] <nigelb> JFo: that is bold or  ;)
[17:05] <JFo> meh ;-)
[17:05] <JFo> html is such an outdated language :-P
[17:06] <nigelb> JFo: html5 rocks
[17:07] <JFo> sez you ;)
 !=
[17:07] <nigelb> JanC: no.  But it does give the same effect most of the time
[17:07] <JFo> please continue to read my statements with the normal level of sarcasm from me
[17:08] <nigelb> JFo: Of course
[17:08] <JFo> :-D
[17:08] <nigelb> JFo: btw, did I ask you about the kernel session for uud?
[17:08] <JanC> depends on the designer's preferences really
[17:09] <JanC> it could be ALLCAPS or blinking red on yellow or whatever  ;)
[17:09] <nigelb> yeah,but default is generally bold
[17:10] <czajkowski> nigelb: you did you've asked most in here most days now
[17:11] <nigelb> czajkowski: I've spoken to far too many people in the past few days.
[17:11] <nigelb> czajkowski: some agree, some busy.
[17:11] <czajkowski> nigelb: see now why I said, use email rather than irc :) better way to track it
[17:11] <nigelb> czajkowski: now that makes sense :)
[17:11] <czajkowski> indeed, every day every channel I have it
[17:11] <czajkowski> from you
[17:12] <nigelb> oh no.
[17:12] <nigelb> czajkowski: Also, we emailed everyone.
[17:12] <nigelb> czajkowski: No one responded.  So I had to do a little chat up and convince people.
[17:13] <nigelb> That's what it boils down to *every* time.
[17:23] <czajkowski> mayeb there is little interest..
[17:23] <czajkowski> or the same people are having to do it
[18:10] <sense> good evening
[18:10] <jcastro> hiya sense
[18:10] <jcastro> how's things?
[18:10] <sense> hi jcastro
[18:11] <sense> jcastro: Busy, I'm already preparing for my next test week, and since I got an offer from Cambridge, I need to work really hard to pass the conditions.
[18:11] <jcastro> that's really great dude
[18:11] <jcastro> will you be moving if you pass?
[18:11] <sense> I'm exited about it. :)
[18:11] <sense> I will be moving to Cambridge if I pass, otherwise probably Amsterdam, Python was invented there. ;)
[18:11] <sense> jcastro: How're you doing?
[18:12] <Pendulum> sense: good luck :)
[18:12] <jcastro> good good
[18:13] <jcastro> sense: got evan from chromium talking to DBO about some unity integration, getting the window widgets and whatnot sorted
[18:13] <sense> Pendulum: thx
[18:13] <jcastro> I kind of stumbled into it so if they sort it it will make my day
[18:13] <sense> jcastro: That's good news!
[18:13] <sense> Everything's becoming more and more integrated now.
[18:13] <jcastro> sense: I dunno if you saw but someone from the SWT team was in #ayatana asking about it for Eclipse
[18:13] <jcastro> that would be another nice win as well.
[18:14] <sense> yeah, if we could that in, that would be awesome
[18:14] <jcastro> and cando's got quicklists almost ready for the trash can
[18:15] <jcastro> which for some reason I've really missed
[18:15] <sense> Yeah, I heard about that. People are doing nice work on the Unity bitesize bugs.
[21:20] <jcastro> http://i.imgur.com/VWydT.jpg
[21:21] <sense> jono: Are you aware of the Bug Squad's mentorship efforts? We've been trying for a while now to set up a working mentor system, but it has been very hard. At the last UDS we even moved away from 1-1 relations, because it had proven to be not sustainable. We have a lack of active and motived mentors, and a lack of students that stay active and motivated.
[21:21] <sense> jcastro:  Lol. That is so cruel. :D
[21:21] <sense> But a wise parenting effort!
[21:23] <sense> jono: Mentoring takes a lot of time and energy, and a lot of people would rather contribute a collected one our per week of helping people on IRC, than having to spend a lot of time mentoring students who might leave the project shortly anyway. It reminds me of what you said about contributing two hours per week consistently, or only two full days without sleep in a row.
[21:25] <sense> Councils and such help us to make up for that by consolidating all those separate small contributions into one collective pool.
[21:28] <jono> sense, I agree, and as I said in the post, I know mentoring is tough, but I do think we could build more of an environment around mentoring
[21:28] <sense> Maybe make people more aware they are part of a P2P mentoring process. :)
[21:29] <sense> Because that is basically what we are: a P2P community, everyone contributing his or her little or big part.
[21:29] <sense> Although you are definitely right on the importance of 1-to-1 relations. By making it more personal, people will be more inclined to stay.
[21:31] <pleia2> the beginners team has had a sucessful mentoring program for a long time too, and one of this cycle's blueprints for ubuntu women is working with BT and other teams' mentoring programs to expand our own
[21:32] <czajkowski> whooo locoteams have started to receive their banners and gifts from canonical :D
[21:32] <sense> czajkowski: yeah, they're wonderful, but a bit smelly.
[21:32] <sense> :)
[21:32] <czajkowski> pleia2: my issues wth the BT and mentors is some of the mentors that are there are not really suitable, one person has been refused membership at least 3 times now. He doesnt actually do anything.. or know a lot tbh
[21:32] <czajkowski> sense: just glad folks can use them now.
[21:33] <pleia2> czajkowski: yes, it's one of the many challenges of a mentoring program
[21:33] <czajkowski> pleia2: nods
[21:33] <sense> czajkowski: Now we can replace our old Ubuntu banner and other brown stuff.
[21:33] <czajkowski> sense: how did ye gets yers if yer unapproved?
[21:33] <czajkowski> hmmm
[21:34] <sense> czajkowski: Was there a decision?
[21:34] <sense> czajkowski: I didn't hear anything yet.
[21:35] <czajkowski> well you said you have them
[21:35] <czajkowski> so I'm wondering
[21:35] <czajkowski> on the bug 5/6 of us have voted
[21:35] <ubot2> czajkowski: Bug 5 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/5 is private
[21:36] <sense> czajkowski: When will we/I get a response?
[21:36] <sense> Was I supposed to be subscribed to that bug report or not? Because I think I am not.
[21:36] <czajkowski> it's a private bug for the LC let me go poke folks
[21:36] <JanC> not sure why it's private...?
[21:37] <JanC> as voting during a meeting is public too...
[21:37] <sense> true
[21:38] <czajkowski> JanC: as LC bugs we've created them so we can work on things easier than on mail and track them
[21:38] <czajkowski> so we create a bug and then work off that
[21:41] <sense> JanC: Do you have the tablecloth and banner for FOSDEM?
[21:42] <JanC> I got 2 packages from UPS today, yes  ☺
[21:43] <sense> good
[21:45] <JanC> actually, they pushed it through the mail slot in my front door--fortunately it wasn't something that could get hurt easily...   :P
[21:45] <sense> awww
[21:46] <jcastro> jono: I'm closing up shop soon, I'll see you on Sunday!
[21:46] <jono> jcastro, see you on Sunday, pal!
[21:46] <jono> jcastro, quick q
[21:46] <jcastro> sure sure
[21:47] <jono> do you know if you can write Banshee extensions in Python?
[21:47] <jcastro> I don't think so, I think they have this python-like thing called Boo
[21:47] <jono> write
[21:47]  * jcastro investigates
[21:50] <JanC> using IronPython should work too I guess?
[21:50] <jono> I imagine so
[21:55] <jcastro> man, not alot of info on this
[21:55] <jcastro> jono: what kind of extension are you interested in btw?
[21:56] <jcastro> they have an entire quickly-like workflow for extensions, but it's for c#
[21:57] <nigelb> duanedesign: around?
[21:57] <jono> jcastro, I basically want to make a Severed Fifth extension
[21:58]  * jcastro nods
[21:58] <jono> see http://www.severedfifth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=141
[21:58] <jono> I think it could be awesome if inside Banshee
[21:59] <jcastro> yeah, integrated like the store is, but for an artist, like those dedicated apps they have on phones
[21:59] <jcastro> I'll ask around
[22:00] <jono> jcastro, exactly
[22:00] <JanC> I hope not every band will make a Banshee-extension...   ;)
[22:00] <jcastro> JanC: only the good ones
[22:00] <jono> JanC, I think it is unlikely
[22:00] <jono> and I think it would be cool to have it shippable on Ubuntu
[22:00] <jcastro> it would be cool if you could just go to the website, click on a link, and have an extension
[22:00] <czajkowski> heh
[22:00] <jcastro> with the albums right there available to you
[22:00] <jono> I am either going to do a Banshee app or dedicated Quickly app
[22:01] <jono> jcastro, totally
[22:01] <jono> the cool thing is that I could ship the music with the app :-)
[22:01] <jcastro> and then, drag and drop it to your friend in empathy and have it load right into their banshee
[22:01] <jcastro> that is totally doable
[22:01] <jcastro> "jorge would like to share Severed Fifth with you"
[22:02] <JanC> well, the U1MS has a way to link to songs, even if it didn't work last time I checked...  ;)
[22:03] <jono> I might hack something and propose it for inclusion in the software center
[22:04] <jono> I got much of the way through a Shot Of Jaq app
[22:04] <jono> I think I might use that code
[22:04] <sense> Band-specific plugins are things that would be perfect for the Software Center, to populate it with things people might find interesting.
[22:04] <sense> good appstore material
[22:04] <jcastro> jono: this would be good brainstorm material for sunday, let me think about it
[22:04] <jono> sense, exactly
[22:04] <jono> jcastro, sure
[22:04] <jono> I might hack on something on the plane
[22:05] <JanC> the problem is, do we want people to accumulate 50 band-plugins and then write blogs that Banshee takes 15 minutes to start?  ;)
[22:05] <jcastro> jono: on a related note
[22:05] <jcastro> you remember that network sync thing you guys did for your one app?
[22:05] <jcastro> I forgot what it did, something juvenille. :p
[22:05] <jono> yeah
[22:05] <jono> lolocopter
[22:05] <jcastro> yeah
[22:06] <jcastro> so, my extension idea is ... that + a shared queue over avahi = sprint jukebox
[22:06] <jcastro> everyone just throws the music they want in the queue, and you have like a shared experience
[22:07] <jono> sounds cool :-)
[22:07] <jcastro> I need to get this lottery thing out of the way so I can pay someone to make all these ideas
[22:08] <AlanBell> a shared music experience with jono . . . what could possibly go wrong?
[22:09] <AlanBell> :)
[22:09] <jcastro> AlanBell: well, you'd have to hardcode in blacklisting his music, but there's plenty of precendence for that
[22:12] <jono> AlanBell, haha
[22:15] <jcastro> libbacon - death metal blacklister, for those applications with impeccable musical taste
[22:16] <czajkowski> I am convienced U1 music store objects to my music taste I have issues iwth downloads lately, but the folks over in ubuntuone usually resolve it for me.
[22:17] <JanC> I am waiting for them to fix several issues so that I can actually use it...  ;)
[22:26] <sense> good night
[22:36] <doctormo> JanC: are these issues with natty?
[22:40] <JanC> the main issue I reported was that Mastercard payments are not possible even if they are listed, so more of a server-side issue
[22:41] <JanC> and if I understood correctly, it's actually a 7digital-issue
[23:42] <doctormo> jcastro: what's the reputation cap on ask?


[00:00] <melodie> Meris if you could look here and report whenever you can: https://bugs.launchpad.net/lubuntu/+bugs
[00:02] <PatrickDickey> Thanks brainwash. I'm installing that now.
[00:12] <melodie> brainwash there also exists a gui on top of it, gsmartcontrol
[00:12] <melodie> too late for that guy anyway :)
[00:13] <brainwash> nice to know :)
[00:19] <melodie> brainwash :)
[01:10] <yologuy> I'm trying to add a keybinding to the lubuntu-rc.xml file which will minimize "Iconify" any window. It only makes the window the size that it was before instead of minimizing. Any insights?
[01:12] <melodie> yologuy have you checked the openbox wiki at http://openbox.org ?
[01:14] <yologuy> yes, it gives an example of how to make the Iconify aka minimize keybinding but instead it only unmaximizes the windows.
[01:19] <yologuy> Never mind, had another key binding doing unmaximize. Deleted it, unmax still doesn't work after $ openbox --reconfigure
[01:44] <yologuy> I suppose it works better if "Iconify" is spelled correctly.
[01:44] <yologuy> mfw it says "Iconfify"
[01:44] <ianorlin> ah misspelled commands are annoying
[01:45] <yologuy> yes lol.
[01:46] <yologuy> really enjoying lubuntu though.
[01:46] <yologuy> it's restored a laptop from 2003
[01:49] <Lazue> new to linux (and lubuntu) - i have a question about desktop icons - sometimes i see some desktop icon animation where icons fly in and out over the programs icon on the desktop, it'll also be visable when i have firefox open - what's that about?
[01:50] <holstein> Lazue: in lubuntu?
[01:50] <ianorlin> that is not by default
[01:50] <Lazue> yes, in lubuntu
[01:52] <Lazue> for example, say i have firefox open, the text file i have on the desktop will have this animation translucent through firefox where similar icons fly into the main one
[01:53] <Lazue> difficult to describe, it reminds me of when ghosts would fly into zuul in ghostbusters on c64
[01:53] <Lazue> and now i sound a little crazy
[01:53] <holstein> Lazue: i have not experienced that
[01:54] <holstein> Lazue: i would make a new user, and test there.. assuming this is something you want to figure out how to get rid of.. if not, just enjoy it
[01:54] <ianorlin> Lazue are you asking how to do that?
[01:55] <Lazue> it only occurred a few times, i was just worried that maybe lubuntu was sharing these files or they were being copied from the desktop by someone unknown and that the animation was something fancy for when someone does that
[01:55] <Lazue> so lubuntu wouldn't go sharing my files without me giving it permission to share over the network right?
[01:56] <holstein> Lazue: no, but if you have misconfigured something, i have no idea what you could be doing
[01:56] <Lazue> just a default install
[01:56] <holstein> Lazue: but, no, lubuntu is not sharing anything anywhere.. by default, which, that should not be happening by default
[01:56] <Lazue> ok thanks
[01:57] <holstein> Lazue: how is it as a new user?
[01:57] <Lazue> well i tried mint, ubuntu, kubuntu, suse
[01:57] <Lazue> but they all seem so clunky, i just wanted something like windows xp classic on windows 7
[01:57] <Lazue> and this is pretty close and minimal
[01:57] <Lazue> so i like it
[01:58] <Lazue> took me a bit to figure out i needed to install nvidia drivers so i could set monitor to 120hz in nvidia-settings
[01:58] <holstein> those drivers could be causing artifacts or issues
[01:59] <Lazue> is there anyway to check if that's the case
[02:00] <holstein> Lazue: sure.. remove the drivers.. test.. reinstall other drivers.. test.. install on other hardware.. test..
[02:00] <Lazue> not worth losing 120hz refresh though without these drivers
[02:00] <Lazue> for me anyway
[02:01] <holstein> sure.. but you remove it, and test.. then, decide, after knowing what is causing the issue
[02:02] <Lazue> it's random though, i could be waiting ages, as long as it's not some animation to indicate the files are being shared/copied, it doesn't really matter
[02:02] <Lazue> another question though if you don't mind
[02:02] <Lazue> on windows 7, i right click and go to advanced sharing on a folder to share that media folder on the network for my wdtv
[02:02] <Lazue> how can i do the same in lubuntu to share the same folder?
[02:02] <holstein> many ways
[02:03] <holstein> Lazue: think of it this way.. how long did you use windows before sharing *anything* over *any* network? a few months? years?
[02:03] <holstein> be sure you give yourself some time to get aquainted with the OS before diving in the deep end
[02:03] <holstein> there are ways to share files with windows via samba
[02:03] <holstein> !samba
[02:03] <Lazue> well i could always check on another computer which folders were shared
[02:04] <holstein> i use ssh, and make other machines communicate with linux that way
[02:04] <Lazue> hmm this isn't for a windows machine though, this is for wdtv, like a media player plugged into the tv, i just browse to the directory and open the file to play, sorta like xbmc
[02:05] <holstein> Lazue: you can ask "wdtv" how they intend for things to be shared
[02:05] <Lazue> raspbmc could see the same folders share on windows 7 that way
[02:05] <holstein> Lazue: i have no idea what it is.. but if its a windows share, you can use samba
[02:05] <holstein> !gigolo
[02:05] <holstein> !info gigolo
[02:05] <holstein> ^ i use that as well.. a GUI tool for connecting to shares
[02:06] <Lazue> hmm maybe i am not clear
[02:06] <Lazue> i don't want to connect to other shares, i want to share a folder on this lubuntu machine with any other media player in the house
[02:06] <holstein> sure. in what way?
[02:06] <holstein> ssh? ftp? samba?
[02:06] <holstein> Lazue: there are *many* ways to share and connect
[02:06] <Lazue> the easiest way
[02:07] <Lazue> obviously not ftp
[02:07] <holstein> Lazue: "easy" is not the question.. i dont konw what a "wdtv" is.. so you'll have to elaborate
[02:07] <Lazue> it's the same as raspbmc or xbmc
[02:07] <Lazue> surely you know of those
[02:07] <holstein> Lazue: why not ftp? if you dont know that its not ftp, it could be
[02:07] <holstein> Lazue: i dont..
[02:07] <Lazue> it's not ftp because i know what ftp is
[02:07] <ianorlin> this http://www.wdc.com/en/products/wdtv/?
[02:08] <holstein> Lazue: ok.. id prefer you not guess.. just look up what the protocol is
[02:08] <Lazue> whether it's wdtv or xbmc doesn't really matter
[02:08] <Lazue> i just need to share the folder on this machine for them to access and stream the media
[02:08] <holstein> Lazue: correct.. it literally doesnt matter what the device is, once we know the protocol
[02:09] <Lazue> nfs
[02:09] <holstein> !nfs
[02:14] <Lazue> what else can i ask that bot
[02:14] <holstein> Lazue: you can use !info for packages...
[02:15] <holstein> !info screen
[02:15] <genii> Lazue: There is also an online database of the bot's factoids at http://ubottu.com/factoids.cgi
[02:15] <Lazue> oh ty
[02:16] <Lazue> might be better to harass the bot :)
[02:16] <ianorlin> http://ubottu.com/factoids.cgi
[02:16] <ianorlin> is the list of all of them
[02:16] <genii> Lazue: Is better to do that in PM, so as to not clutter up the channel
[02:16] <Lazue> yeah, i am
[02:17] <Lazue> ok, ty for help
[02:20] <melodie> good night
[07:30] <wxl> Unit193: nvlc?! have you switched to the dark side? but yah, caca makes sense. or aa.
[08:27] <jarnos> Release notes still don't warn you about locking and autostart (and thus updates) do not work by default.  Why?
[10:49] <cretsiah> does lubuntu support wireless keyboards and mouse?
[11:36] <jarnos> Release notes still don't warn you about Saucy's inability to lock and autostart (and thus updates) by default.  Why?
[11:37] <jarnos> Release notes still don't warn you about Saucy's inability to lock and autostart (and thus e.g. to notify about updates) by default.  Why?
[11:42] <brainwash> it does not appear to be a big deal
[11:42] <brainwash> otherwise it would have been changed already
[11:52] <jarnos> brainwash, and "Different spacing for the icons on the right corner of lxpanel" appears to be :|
[11:53] <brainwash> you should contact the site owner/author
[11:58] <brainwash> maybe a hint like "for advanced users only" should be added to the 13.10 release notes, because so many things do not work ootb and need manual adjustments
[12:03] <Unit193> Heh.  Also is it an update?  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/lubuntu-users/2013-September/005577.html
[12:06] <brainwash> ^ Sat Sep 14
[12:18] <Unit193> brainwash: Also, https://github.com/lxde/lxsession/blob/master/data/desktop.conf.example#L166 seems to be pretty clear to me, no?
[12:24] <Unit193> brainwash: See last message?
[12:33] <nelson> Hi
[12:33] <nelson> someone help me with Lubuntu installation issue?
[12:36] <nelson> I was trying to install Lubuntu 13.10 in my laptop, but when it asks to write to define username and pass, I can't write
[12:36] <nelson> So I went to live cd option and try to write in a text editor, and no success
[12:37] <nelson> then I tried the live cd in my other laptop, and runs perfectly
[12:37] <nelson> they keyboard works
[12:38] <nelson> So no one helps?
[13:16] <Frank81> Hello i have a little logical fail how to move the fils right i am in dir /var/bla/current/ i wanna move the content of  /var/bla/current/bla2 to /var/bla/current/
[13:16] <Frank81> how can i do that
[13:16] <Frank81> :D
[13:16] <Frank81> i tought mv ./bla2/* ./* would work
[13:16] <Frank81> but thats totally wrong
[14:01] <jarnos> brainwash, I don't know who is in charge, but I sent an email to phillw, who has made the latest changes to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SaucySalamander/ReleaseNotes/Lubuntu
[14:03] <jarnos> brainwash, I also tried to add a comment to the respective article at http://www.lubuntu.net, but did not succeed.
[17:18] <Sananjalka> Good evening. I have a minor problem with Lubuntu, and I would like to ask for advice.
[17:51] <genii> !details
[17:57] <Sananjalka> I will try my best to do that. But that reminds me... In case I forgot which version of Lubuntu I am running, what is the easiest way to check it in LXDE?
[17:57] <Sananjalka> My current version is 12.10.
[17:58] <Sananjalka> Quantal Quetzal, that is.
[17:58] <Sananjalka> I am facing a problem with the trash bin.
[18:00] <Sananjalka> I have backup copies of my files on a second hard disk -- /media/kla500/
[18:02] <Sananjalka> When deleting old backups with PCManFM 1.0.1, some of the deleted folders cannot be removed from the trash.
[18:03] <Sananjalka> For example, I had a copy of one of my audio CDs. The folder was named "DJ Shadow - Preemptive Strike".
[18:04] <Sananjalka> When I try to remove that folder from the trash, I get an error pop-up, stating:
[18:05] <Sananjalka> "Tiedosto-operaatio on valmis, mutta virheitä ilmaantui."
[18:05] <Sananjalka> The English equivalent should be:
[18:05] <Sananjalka> "The file operation is finished, but there are some errors."
[18:06] <Sananjalka> And then:
[18:06] <Sananjalka> ": Tiedostoa tai kansiota ei löydy"
[18:07] <Sananjalka> That is, ": No such file or folder." (I believe.)
[18:09] <Sananjalka> PCManFM does not provide any further details, and it seems strange that it does not name the file or folder it is missing.
[18:09] <Sananjalka> If I try navigating into the folder within the trash bin, I get a smaller error pop-up:
[18:10] <Sananjalka> ": Tiedostoa tai kansiota ei löydy" -- ": No such file or folder."
[18:11] <Sananjalka> ...Pardon me, no colon in this one.
[18:12] <Sananjalka> Yet PCManFM takes me into the folder, which appears to be empty, even if I ask hidden files to be shown.
[18:13] <Sananjalka> I guess this is as specific as I can get without speculating.
[18:15] <Sananjalka> I do use command line sometimes, so tips of that kind are not a problem. Rather, that stuff just slows me down. (One of the main reasons I use Lubuntu is that I do not need the terminal so often.)
[18:16] <Sananjalka> Solving this problem is not urgent at the moment, but I am afraid my trash bin will get cluttered as time passes.
[18:17] <Sananjalka> I would love to know if this is a well-known bug, or if I am missing something very simple here.
[18:19] <Sananjalka> I spent perhaps an hour googling for answers, but it seemed like no one had reported this exact problem with Lubuntu. There were similar problems, but I did not quite understand the answers.
[18:20] <Sananjalka> An example of what I found: http://askubuntu.com/questions/322687/theres-a-file-in-my-trash-that-cant-be-deleted
[18:32] <Sananjalka> Hm, I just noticed something.
[18:33] <njalk> why on earth would you want to trash dj shadow?
[18:33] <njalk> sorry that was OT.. *returns to keeping mouth shut*
[18:34] <Sananjalka> njalk, I appreciate your concern, but I still have the original CD -- bought from a record shop, believe it or not -- plus one newer backup on my hard disk :)
[18:34] <njalk> =)
[18:34] <Sananjalka> Back to the topic:
[18:35] <njalk> but as it says in the askubuntu question that you posted, have you checked the ownership of the files?
[18:35] <njalk> in the trashfolder?
[18:36] <Sananjalka> all of them are "1000", seems like some default setting. does not affect wiping out other folders
[18:36] <njalk> how about trying to restore them and change their names, then trashing
[18:36] <njalk> does that make a difference
[18:36] <Sananjalka> but as i was trying to say, now i tried browsing /media/kla500 itself (see above) -
[18:37] <Sananjalka> and told PCManFM to show hidden files *there*
[18:38] <Sananjalka> navigating into /media/kla500/.Trash-1000 via that path looks promising. gimme a minute...
[18:40] <Sananjalka> Yeah, that did the trick!
[18:41] <Sananjalka> Approaching from that direction, the problem folders' file contents are still visible, while the normal trash view shows them to be empty.
[18:42] <Sananjalka> I rename the problem folders into something shorter and simpler, and after that they can be deleted all right.
[18:42] <Sananjalka> Whew.
[18:43] <Sananjalka> Too bad I could hardly write an acceptable bug report on this -- I do not believe my trash bin is working as intended.
[18:44] <Sananjalka> Let's hope this bug or whatever has been fixed for Saucy Salamander.
[18:45] <Sananjalka> Sorry for taking up your time, people.
[18:46] <Sananjalka> njalk, restoring them straight via the trash bin was not possible. whatever operation i tried with them, I always got the same error msg.
[18:53] <Sananjalka> renaming was impossible there, too.
[18:54] <Sananjalka> (If somebody out there happens to know what my problem was, I am still very eager to learn about it. While it did get solved, understanding it would do no harm.)
[21:18] <wh0_d4T> running lubuntu 13.04, connected mp3 device (Sony). Showing up as mtp
[21:18] <wh0_d4T> device in file manager.
[21:19] <wh0_d4T> run "df -h" in terminal, does not show.
[21:19] <wh0_d4T> For some reason I cannot just copy paste files to and from the mp3 device as I was capable of when running ubuntu 10.04
[21:20] <wh0_d4T> Please help. :)
[21:21] <zleap> is it plugged in to the usb port ?
[21:21] <zleap> you could try lsusb to see if it shows up
[21:23] <wh0_d4T> zleap: yes
[21:23] <wh0_d4T> zleap: will try lsusb
[21:23] <wh0_d4T> zleap: it shows up
[21:24] <zleap> ok so you know its detected
[21:24] <wh0_d4T> zleap: btw, my file manager is lubuntu 13.04 default PCManFM 1.1.0
[21:24] <zleap> i have that here
[21:24] <zleap> does anything show up if you click accessories - disks
[21:24] <wh0_d4T> zleap: in the file manager it shows as being mounted like: mtp *this is one mount point
[21:25] <wh0_d4T> and WALKMAN another mount point
[21:25] <zleap> so it mounts then
[21:25] <wh0_d4T> zleap: will try accessories
[21:25] <zleap> that may tell you how it is mounted,  e.g ro or rw
[21:26] <wh0_d4T> zleap: so what I initially was trying to do was to make room on this 1gb mp3 walkman.
[21:26] <zleap> ok
[21:26] <zleap> how are you deleting stuff
[21:26] <wh0_d4T> zleap: was copying and pasting the mp3 files I have to make room for new stuff
[21:26] <zleap> ok
[21:27] <wh0_d4T> so I copied and pasted to my music folder and was saving in a weird format
[21:27] <zleap> what i meant was that if you just press delete it gets moved to the recycle bin, if you press shift - del it deletes the file
[21:27] <wh0_d4T> haven't tried deleting from the mp3 device.
[21:27] <wh0_d4T> should i give it a go?
[21:27] <zleap> ok
[21:27] <zleap> maybe
[21:28] <zleap> what is the extention of this "weird" format
[21:28] <zleap> http://zleap.net/lubuntu-deleting-files/
[21:28] <zleap> this is from my website and has notes on deleting files from Lubuntu
[21:28] <wh0_d4T> i get a confirm box
[21:29] <zleap> yeah
[21:29] <zleap> that is normal
[21:29] <wh0_d4T> reads "some files cannot be moved to trash can... underlying file systems don't support this operation"
[21:29] <zleap> ah its probably fat32
[21:29] <wh0_d4T> so if i press yes it's gone permanently from the device?
[21:29] <wh0_d4T> yes
[21:29] <wh0_d4T> it's fat32
[21:30] <zleap> did you hold down shift then press delete
[21:30] <zleap> that should just delete them,
[21:30] <wh0_d4T> no
[21:30] <zleap> if you press delete it gets moved to the trashcan
[21:30] <zleap> so is just elsewhere on your file system,  which on the mp3 player won't exist i guess
[21:31] <wh0_d4T> my question is that i used to be able to see the mp3 device mounted
[21:31] <wh0_d4T> when I use to run ubuntu 10.04
[21:31] <wh0_d4T> on this pc
[21:31] <wh0_d4T> I recently upgraded to lubuntu 13.04
[21:31] <zleap> so something big has changed between the two
[21:31] <wh0_d4T> and it adds that extra mtp mount point
[21:32] <zleap> it is seeing two file systems or two partitions,  i get that with some external devices such as flash drives
[21:32] <wh0_d4T> I'm assuming lubuntu 13.04 now mounts media devices differently
[21:32] <zleap> maybe
[21:32] <zleap> i am sure they changed how it handles stuff
[21:33] <zleap> used to use udev or hal,  i was never an expert at that,
[21:34] <wh0_d4T> zleap: yes. so that explains the weird pasted results I was getting
[21:34] <zleap> yeah
[21:34] <wh0_d4T> when ctrl+c ctrl+v 'ing from my mp3 device to music folder huh
[21:34] <zleap> hi omnidan has the way lubuntu mounts file systems changed between 10.04 and 13.04
[21:35] <zleap> how much space do you have left ?
[21:35] <omnidan> zleap: oh I have no idea about that, but maybe I can help you if you tell me the issue (I just use plain debian)
[21:35] <wh0_d4T> zleap: space in my hdd or my mp3 device?
[21:35] <zleap> omnidan, i am helping wh0_d4T so yeah trying to get to the root of the issue
[21:35] <zleap> mp3 device
[21:35] <zleap> just rule out a full file system
[21:36] <wh0_d4T> zleap: usually i would run "df -h" to see device and remaining size
[21:36] <wh0_d4T> zleap: but get nothing running that.
[21:36] <zleap> hmm
[21:37] <wh0_d4T> zleap: if i right-click on mtp or WALKMAN, just get option to unmount volume
[21:37] <zleap> ok
[21:37] <zleap> so its mounted
[21:37] <wh0_d4T> yes
[21:37] <zleap> i just ran sudo fdisk -l and it has listed file systems
[21:37] <omnidan> zleap: can you repeat the issue/error?
[21:37] <zleap> try that, it may be more helpful than df -h
[21:38] <wh0_d4T> zleap: so run sudo fdisk -l?
[21:38] <zleap> yeah
[21:38] <zleap> see if that gives you anything
[21:39] <wh0_d4T> zleap: nada. just get partition listings for /dev/sda1 - Linux
[21:39] <wh0_d4T> /dev/sda2 - Extended and /dev/sda5 - swap partition
[21:39] <zleap> ok
[21:40] <zleap> omnidan, wh0_d4T is trying to copy items to a mp3 player
[21:40] <zleap> wh0_d4T, can you fill omnidan in on the problem
[21:40] <wh0_d4T> zleap: yes
[21:41] <wh0_d4T> omnidan: I am trying to copy paste mp3 files from my Lubuntu 13.04 box to my mp3 music device
[21:42] <omnidan> wh0_d4T: and the issue is?
[21:42] <zleap> it isn't working
[21:42] <wh0_d4T> omnidan: per explaining to zleap, I was trying to make run on the device, but didn't want to delete my old stuff
[21:43] <wh0_d4T> omnidan: so I did a ctrl+c on the folders containing mp3 files and ctrl+v them to the music folder
[21:43] <wh0_d4T> the files that pasted were not named as the originals and some files lost their .mp3 extension
[21:44] <wh0_d4T> omnidan: very bizarre
[21:44] <wh0_d4T> onmidan: so my initial hunch went with how the mp3 device is mounted
[21:44] <omnidan> wh0_d4T: remove all the files, open a terminal, cd to the folder with the originals, cp -R ./* /destination
[21:44] <wh0_d4T> omnidan: as an mtp device
[21:45] <omnidan> if that works fine it's an issue with the file explorer and not an mtp-related issue
[21:45] <wh0_d4T> omnidan: how do I do that from terminal since the mp3 device doesn't show a file system path?
[21:46] <zleap> ctrl-t for a terminal window
[21:46] <omnidan> wh0_d4T: try ls /media
[21:46] <zleap> then i think do ls /media
[21:46] <omnidan> it's probably mounted there
[21:47] <wh0_d4T> omnidan: only floppy and my home folder are in /media
[21:48] <omnidan> what
[21:48] <omnidan> your home folder isn't supposed to be in /media
[21:48] <zleap> omnidan, what changed between 10.04 and 13.04 with regard to how mounting works
[21:48] <zleap> wasn't there a change from hal to udev at some point
[21:48] <omnidan> zleap: it most likely isn't a mounting issue
[21:49] <wh0_d4T> omnidan: correction, my user name which is tinker
[21:49] <omnidan> I think it's just the explorer (what is the default file explorer in lubuntu?)
[21:49] <wh0_d4T> omnidan: not /home/tinker
[21:49] <omnidan> wh0_d4T: can you right click on the mtp device and check properties or something to get the path?
[21:49] <zleap> i noticed that if i have my external hdd and a flash disk mounted, if I unmount one, the whole window closes
[21:50] <zleap> so i can have the external hdd or my home folder displayed, unmount the flash disk and it closes the window
[21:50] <zleap> rather than just taking the icon away
[21:50] <wh0_d4T> omnidan: i only get the option to "unmount volume"
[21:50] <omnidan> what the
[21:50] <zleap> if its mounted you will
[21:51] <wh0_d4T> omnidan: if this is of any use: in th file manager, the path reads:
[21:51] <omnidan> what file explorer does lubuntu use?
[21:51] <melodie> pcmanfm
[21:51] <wh0_d4T> mtp://[usb:001,003]/
[21:51] <omnidan> wh0_d4T: oh it accesses mtp directly
[21:51] <zleap> ah
[21:51] <zleap> omnidan, i take it it should not do that
[21:51] <omnidan> fusermount?
[21:52] <omnidan> does that command exist?
[21:52] <melodie> omnidan yes but not relevant imo
[21:52] <zleap> it does on mine,
[21:52] <omnidan> melodie: how is it not relevant?
[21:52] <melodie> fusermount
[21:52] <zleap> i think that tells you which user has mounted the file system
[21:52] <omnidan> mtpfs exists, wh0_d4T?
[21:53] <melodie> if the device is mounted and can be accessed, one good idea would be to copy the files to and from using mc
[21:53] <melodie> mc is old fashioned but very powerful
[21:53] <omnidan> wait guys please
[21:53] <omnidan> we need to mount the device correctly first
[21:53] <wh0_d4T> omnidan: check mtpfs in terminal by running "mtpfs --version"?
[21:53] <omnidan> wh0_d4T: just run mtpfs
[21:54] <wh0_d4T> omnidan: not installed
[21:54] <omnidan> wh0_d4T: sudo apt-get install mtpfs
[21:54] <wh0_d4T> ok
[21:58] <wh0_d4T> omnidan: get following when run mtpfs: http://pastebin.com/f2kMASTA
[21:59] <omnidan> wh0_d4T: sudo mtpfs test
[21:59] <omnidan> wait sorry
[21:59] <omnidan> wh0_d4T: run as root (sudo): mkdir /media/test && sudo mtpfs test
[21:59] <melodie> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2122038
[21:59] <melodie> wh0_d4T
[22:00] <melodie> "Step 1!
[22:00] <melodie> Make sure you have libmtp
[22:00] <melodie> Code:
[22:00] <melodie> sudo apt-get install libmtp
[22:00] <melodie> "
[22:00] <melodie> read the rest?
[22:00] <omnidan> he has that
[22:00] <melodie> ok
[22:01] <omnidan> it's a dependency of mtpfs
[22:01] <melodie> what about the idea of getting "go-mtpfs" as presented on that page?
[22:02] <wh0_d4T> omnidan: sorry but how do i go root in terminal?
[22:02] <omnidan> wh0_d4T: just do "sudo mkdir /media/test && sudo mtpfs /media/test"
[22:02] <wh0_d4T> ok
[22:02] <omnidan> melodie: external ppa, unity based
[22:03] <melodie> had a look in the udev rules?
[22:03] <melodie> it mounts, doesn't it?
[22:04] <omnidan> melodie: it didn't mount before
[22:04] <omnidan> it used the mtp protocol directly
[22:04] <omnidan> now it should mount
[22:05] <melodie> what is wrong with the mtp protocol?
[22:05] <omnidan> using it via fuse is nicer
[22:05] <omnidan> also
[22:05] <omnidan> there is a lot wrong with the mtp protocol
[22:05] <omnidan> mtp is a pain in general
[22:05] <melodie> wh0_d4T when it will be solved, would you post a howto somewhere?
[22:06] <melodie> omnidan ok
[22:06] <omnidan> melodie: to begin with it's a proprietary protocol
[22:06] <omnidan> it doesn't have multitasking
[22:06] <melodie> oh yes
[22:07] <omnidan> and mtp support is shit everywhere except on windows
[22:07] <melodie> omnidan and this leads to what kind of behavior?
[22:07] <wh0_d4T> omnidan: results: http://pastebin.com/4ht3NYUU
[22:07] <omnidan> melodie: it's slow
[22:07] <omnidan> wh0_d4T: sounds good, try cd /media/test now
[22:07] <melodie> so this is what multitasking is for? better speed?
[22:08] <omnidan> melodie: you can do more actions at once
[22:08] <omnidan> e.g. move many files at once
[22:08] <omnidan> with multitasking
[22:09] <melodie> I might have met with this annoyment on a small mp4 player my father offered to my son
[22:11] <melodie> I didn't deal with it the nice way you are doing now. I think I gave up for the movies because they need a special non free software under windows to reduce a video to the right size
[22:11] <melodie> and for the music... I think I found a way
[22:11] <omnidan> melodie: well the mtpfs fuse driver won't change that
[22:11] <omnidan> it still uses the mtp protocol, it just mounts it more nicely
[22:11] <melodie> what will?
[22:11] <melodie> oh ok
[22:11] <omnidan> more unix compatible and stuff
[22:11] <omnidan> err
[22:11] <omnidan> posix sorry
[22:11] <omnidan> :P
[22:12] <melodie> :)
[22:12] <omnidan> melodie: a device that doesn't use mtp will
[22:12] <omnidan> :P
[22:12] <omnidan> then you still have the usb restriction though
[22:12] <omnidan> usb is serial :<
[22:12] <wh0_d4T> omnidan: i need to be root to access from terminal
[22:13] <wh0_d4T> omnidan: cannot sudo cd since get error: sudo: cd: command not found
[22:13] <omnidan> wh0_d4T: sudo su
[22:13] <omnidan> then cd
[22:13] <wh0_d4T> ok
[22:13] <omnidan> note that sudo su makes you root until you run "exit"
[22:14] <melodie> omnidan I sometimes use "sudo -s" instead
[22:15] <omnidan> melodie: it's the same thing
[22:15] <omnidan> "sudo su" is just "the debian way"
[22:15] <omnidan> I say that because debian doesn't have sudo by default, only "su" which makes you root
[22:17] <wh0_d4T> omnidan: this is bizarre, cp -R from terminal to /home/username/Music
[22:17] <wh0_d4T> and folder appears but not .mp3 files
[22:17] <wh0_d4T> :(
[22:17] <omnidan> wh0_d4T: what exactly did you do? just show me the logs
[22:18] <wh0_d4T> omnidan: btw. ls as root on mp3 device for folders with mp3 files, none appear
[22:18] <omnidan> wh0_d4T: so basically /media/test is empty?
[22:19] <wh0_d4T> omnidan: yes. i don't think i'm crazy i know the mp3 files are in the device since i didn't delete them
[22:19] <omnidan> wh0_d4T: it didn't mount correctly then :<
[22:19]  * omnidan never used mtpfs
[22:19] <omnidan> hmm
[22:19] <wh0_d4T> omnidan: how to unmount from mtpfs properly?
[22:20] <omnidan> fusermount -u /media/test
[22:20] <omnidan> that's why I asked earlier
[22:20] <melodie> omnidan did you pay attention that fusermount must not be used as root?
[22:21] <melodie> well, should not as far as I know
[22:21] <omnidan> melodie: he's still in sudo su
[22:21] <omnidan> at least I assumed that
[22:21] <omnidan> :P
[22:22] <melodie> I don't like that
[22:22] <melodie> I would try the udev way
[22:22] <omnidan> I don't like udev tbh
[22:22] <omnidan> but what do you mean anyway?
[22:22] <melodie> do a "lsusb, get the number id for product and vendor, seek if it's in the /etc/udev/rules.d files and if not, add it somewhere
[22:24] <omnidan> jeez all this new technology
[22:24] <omnidan> I'm just kidding
[22:25] <wh0_d4T> omnidan: thank you so much for your help :)
[22:25] <omnidan> yeah sure, melodie but that won't help you mounting mtp :P
[22:25] <omnidan> wh0_d4T: use that guide melodie posted earlier
[22:25] <zleap> omnidan, thanks for helping too
[22:25] <omnidan> or zleap?
[22:25] <melodie> zleap :)
[22:25] <omnidan> ok then
[22:25] <melodie> I did
[22:25] <omnidan> ah yeah
[22:26] <omnidan> wh0_d4T: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2122038
[22:26] <omnidan> oh it uses the -o flag
[22:26] <omnidan> hmm
[22:26] <omnidan> man mtpfs doesn't show anything
[22:26] <omnidan> fusermount shows -o is mount options
[22:27] <omnidan> oh
[22:27] <omnidan> that's just to allow more mtp devices at once
[22:27] <wh0_d4T> zleap: thanks for your help also.
[22:27] <omnidan> wh0_d4T: sorry but I doubt the guide will help you, it essentially does the same I told you to do
[22:27] <zleap> wh0_d4T, you're welcome,
[22:30] <zanzacar> is there a way to see something at load time other then the lubuntu logo? see the details at load time?
[22:30] <zanzacar> get to the terminal instead.
[22:30] <omnidan> zanzacar: you mean while booting?
[22:31] <zanzacar> ya
[22:31] <omnidan> zanzacar: plymouth does that
[22:31] <omnidan> assuming lubuntu uses plymouth :P
[22:31] <omnidan> damn it's hard to support a distro you've never used :D
[22:32] <omnidan> yeah it does
[22:32] <omnidan> zanzacar: if you want a quick solution, just remove the plymouth packages
[22:32] <zanzacar> gotcha
[22:33] <omnidan> zanzacar: if you want to customize it, I ddg'd you a howto: http://askubuntu.com/questions/2007/how-do-i-change-the-plymouth-bootscreen
[22:36] <zleap> zanzacar, i think you can edit /boot/grub/grub.cfg and tell it not to display the splash screen
[22:36] <omnidan> I don't think he means the grub splash screen tbh :P
[22:36] <zleap> ok
[22:36] <zleap> it means that screen that covers up all the text when you boot up, well that could be controlled in that file somewhere
[22:37] <zleap> i just ran  cat grub.cfg | grep splash
[22:37] <zleap> so there may be something in that file that does it,  something to investigate further
[22:39] <zanzacar> o ok will do. i had a computer working with 13.04 and then they upgraded to 13.10 and now it doesnt work. i want to get 13.04 back on it.
[22:39] <zanzacar> i cant see whats happening at boot time cause it just says lubuntu and has the loading dots
[22:41] <zanzacar> i will have to look into that though.
[22:43] <omnidan> zanzacar: that's plymouth
[22:44] <omnidan> plymouth covers these logs
[23:02] <Popolon> hi
[23:02] <Popolon> just for information : gtkterm application has not an adapted icon for lxde
[23:03] <Popolon> result => larger icon, and lot of space around other icons :(
[23:04] <Popolon> package 'gtkterm'
[23:09] <Popolon> http://pix.toile-libre.org/?img=1382915351.png


[00:25] <rick_h> jrwren: pushed an update to bookie to fix that stupid chrome/FF bug issue
[11:46] <rick_h> morning
[11:46] <brousch> oh this is lovely
[11:46] <brousch> someone else's photos just showed up in my dropbox
[11:46] <rick_h> oops
[11:48] <brousch> looks like someone trying filters on their webcam
[11:49] <brousch> no exif data
[11:51] <brousch> hm
[11:54] <brousch> these pictures have the same date/time format as my phone, but they are dated 1 day before i bought it
[11:54] <rick_h> hah, someone took pics on your phone you didn't realize :P
[11:54] <brousch> before i bought it
[11:55] <brousch> my son was playing with the phone at the time of the upload, but obviously not at the time the photos were taken
[11:55] <rick_h> well dropbox now has the auto photo upload from your phone
[11:56] <brousch> i can't find them anywhere on my phone
[11:59] <brousch> i use the autoupload. that's where the pictures came in
[11:59] <brousch> but i didn't take these pictures
[12:02] <rick_h> http://www.tomscott.com/glasses/
[12:07] <brousch> i'm going to lansing tonight to learn more about git
[12:11] <rick_h> very cool, good thing to know
[12:56] <snap-l> Good morning
[12:56] <rick_h> party
[12:57] <rick_h> so I'm a bad employee, I just found out LP has sprint org stuff, never ever noticed/realized it.
[12:57] <rick_h> sad when I work on something and just don't even know swaths of features
[12:57] <brousch> big projects are like that
[12:57] <brousch> bug companies
[12:57] <brousch> b ig
[13:08] <jrwren> rick_h: thanks for the bookie fix. imma go look on github to see the diff
[13:09] <rick_h> jrwren: just made sure I don't end the api call in / so that the nginx 301 redirect doesn't kick in.
[13:09] <rick_h> it's a browser bug, but fortunately I can avoid the 301
[13:42] <snap-l> rick_h: I know the feeling well
[13:42] <snap-l> Had lots of "we do that?" learning
[14:01] <ColonelPanic001> heh
[14:01] <ColonelPanic001> I don't think I've been on launchpad much in ages.
[14:01]  * ColonelPanic001 goes to have a look
[14:04] <ColonelPanic001> I forgot, I actually have a project on ther, from 2009
[14:07] <jrwren> rick_h: how long have you worked there now?
[14:07] <rick_h> jrwren: nov
[14:07] <jrwren> can't know it all in 5 months :)
[14:07] <rick_h> yea, definitely
[14:07] <ColonelPanic001> when he hits 6, though..
[15:07] <snap-l> Requested 12.04 CDs
[15:07] <rick_h> woot
[15:08] <snap-l> Might even have them at Penguicon
[15:08] <snap-l> which would be awesome
[15:08] <snap-l> Also, Kubuntu CDs aren't in this pack
[15:08] <rick_h> really? /me goes to dbl check actual release day
[15:09] <snap-l> 26/4/2012
[15:09] <snap-l> They're accepting pre-orders, which leads me to believe they're being mastered RSN
[15:09] <brousch> blue-headed stepchild
[15:10] <snap-l> brousch: That reminds me....
[15:10] <brousch> now the disowned blue-head step-child
[15:10]  * snap-l has a devious plan to ship all of the rest of the 11.10 CDs to brousch
[15:10]  * snap-l loves Priority Mail Fat Rate.
[15:10] <brousch> i think i handed out 2 so far
[15:11] <brousch> i should have hidden the box in your house when i was there
[15:11] <snap-l> Yeah, CDs don't really go over very well
[15:11] <snap-l> brousch: I still have the two boxes from the release party in my living room
[15:11] <snap-l> I should put them in the kitchen
[15:11] <snap-l> or something like that
[15:11] <snap-l> Get rid of the things.
[15:11] <brousch> it feels wasteful
[15:12] <brousch> like i should recycle them or something
[15:12] <brousch> maybe i can turn them into an artprize entry
[15:12] <snap-l> If anyone has some ideas, I'm all for it
[15:12] <snap-l> I'll pay shipping.
[15:12] <jrwren> i keep meaning to upgrade.
[15:13] <brousch> ubuntu-skeetshooting-us-mi
[15:13] <snap-l> brousch: Noooooooooo
[15:13] <rick_h> downloaded latest iso today plan is to reinstall tomorrow
[15:13] <rick_h> everyone else is off work tomorrow so might as well restart then
[15:13] <brousch> hm
[15:15] <snap-l> Yeah, I have tomorrow off as well
[15:19] <jrwren> why so many people off tomorrow?
[15:19] <jjesse> good friday
[15:19] <jrwren> auto holiday for the god lovers?
[15:20] <jrwren> wow, you are an optimist. how do you know it will be good?
[15:20] <jjesse> my calendar says it will be good friday
[15:20] <jjesse> so no iea
[15:20] <jjesse> idea
[15:20] <jrwren> sweet!
[15:20] <jrwren> must NOT be a demotivational calendar
[15:20] <jrwren> so optimistic
[15:21]  * snap-l rolls his eyes.
[15:58] <snap-l> http://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/rubzn/how_my_apple_hate_quite_literally_burned_me/
[16:01]  * rick_h just keeps quiet...
[16:03] <snap-l> rick_h: macs rule. ;)
[16:03] <rick_h> I'm going to call total bullshit on the whole story
[16:03] <rick_h> you feel anxiety up to a purchase, but if you got the thing home and it worked it goes away pretty quick.
[16:03] <rick_h> trust me, I've been there
[16:04] <rick_h> so I don't buy the start of the story at all, and the follow up that "I bought a thing that I regret buying..."
[16:04] <rick_h>  oh freaking well, you bought a bad bit of hardware, wtf were you doing buying a laptop from samsung...
[16:04] <rick_h> the whole story stinks from start to finish
[16:13] <snap-l> rick_h: Funny thing is the Macbook Pro that I had was also a serious nut-warmer
[16:14] <snap-l> Even through the laptop desk
[16:14] <snap-l> Haven't had the same problem with the X120e
[17:05] <jrwren> i LOVE that story.
[17:06] <rick_h> jrwren: would, it's got a person who loves windows more than OSX and Ubuntu, loves mac hardware...it's too good to be true I tell you :P
[17:08] <snap-l> greg-g: http://thereifixedit.failblog.org/2012/04/05/white-trash-repairs-bicycle-lanes-in-bulgaria/
[17:08] <jrwren> the thing i found amusing is that the quiet mac book airs don't exist anymore.
[17:08] <jrwren> he said he has a 2010.
[17:08] <jrwren> well. my 2010 DID make noise when i pushed it hard.
[17:09] <jrwren> and now I have a 2011 air and it definitely spins up and pushes air more than the 2010 model.
[17:09] <jrwren> i don't htink ivybridge will change this at all.
[17:13] <snap-l> Craig's law: The more bits you push, the more heat you'll generate
[17:15] <jrwren> surely you know that isn't true.
[17:15] <jrwren> but I do like your law.
[17:15] <snap-l> Craig's corallary: I like pie
[17:17] <jrwren> mmm... pie
[17:34] <jrwren> Because Facebook's entire code base is compiled down to a single binary executable, the company's deployment process is quite different from what you'd normally expect in a PHP environment. Rossi told me that the binary, which represents the entire Facebook application, is approximately 1.5GB in size.
[17:34] <jrwren> !!!
[17:35] <rick_h> heh, well makes it easier to load that into memory vs a bunch of php scripts :)
[17:35] <ColonelPanic001> hah
[17:35] <ColonelPanic001> Didn't know that, interesting
[17:35] <jrwren> http://arstechnica.com/business/news/2012/04/exclusive-a-behind-the-scenes-look-at-facebook-release-engineering.ars?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+arstechnica%2Findex+%28Ars+Technica+-+Featured+Content%29
[17:35] <greg-g> snap-l: hilarious
[17:35] <ColonelPanic001> I was just going to ask
[17:36] <jrwren> i don't know enough about the linux and gnu linker loader to know wtf its going ot do with 1.5GB exec
[17:36] <jrwren> i wonder if it is statically linked.
[17:36] <jrwren> i wonder if it even uses a webserver or if that includes the web server.
[17:36] <rick_h> well create a memdisk with one file in it :)
[17:36] <jrwren> that would be foolish.
[17:37] <jrwren> then you aren't letting the vmemsys do what it is meant to do.
[17:37] <snap-l> Nice thing is instead of looking at 1,000 files to see where a change is, you can do one sha1sum to tell which server is out of sync
[17:37] <snap-l> That's brilliant
[17:38] <snap-l> I eagerly await our newfound compiled executable memes
[17:38] <snap-l> Because FACEBOOK
[17:38] <rick_h> come on, you know that's how google does it too :P
[17:38] <jrwren> lol
[17:39] <jrwren> "THIS IS HOW YOU SCALE! ONE GIANT EXECUTABLE!"
[17:39] <snap-l> $5 says they don't strip out debugging. ;)
[17:40] <jrwren> lol.
[17:40] <jrwren> or use -O5.
[17:40] <jrwren> -O0 plz.
[17:41] <jrwren> -Wnone too
[17:41] <jrwren> but that might make sense given the HipHop layer
[17:41] <snap-l> OMG! OUR 1.5GB EXECUTABLE IS NOW 600K AFTER WE RAN STRIP
[17:44] <greg-g> I hate it when you, while trying to fall asleep, craft a brilliant 140 character thought that condenses such an important issue so that everyone can understand it easily plannning on sending it out via the microblags the next morning, but then, you fall asleep, and forget everything.
[17:45] <jrwren> lol @ 600k
[17:49] <rick_h> greg-g: I started keeing a notepad by my bed because I kept having bookie ideas right before sleep, drove me nuts
[17:49] <rick_h> it's a win, but it's embarrassing when it wakes up the wife while I fumble to take a note
[17:52] <greg-g> rick_h: yeah, unfortunately my falling asleep time now includes a 3.5 month old in nest of my left arm. :)
[17:53] <rick_h> greg-g: hmm, android voice dictation? I don't keep my phone in my bedroom, but maybe you do?
[17:56] <jrwren> i put a notepad at my bedside, and all thoughts worth writing immediately stopped
[17:57] <snap-l> jrwren: hah
[17:57] <snap-l> I have a notepad that I leave by the bed, but no pen.
[17:58] <snap-l> and now I dust a notepad.
[18:23] <jrwren> rick_h: does your pastebin have a post limit?
[18:23] <snap-l> I really need to come up with some way to exclude the 100 baby einstein songs from ever being played on my squeezebox player
[18:23] <snap-l> ever
[18:23] <jrwren> i just tried posting about 3.5k and it gives 500
[18:23] <jrwren> snap-l: delete the files.
[18:23] <snap-l> jrwren: Ubuntu One
[18:23] <rick_h> jrwren: probably
[18:23] <snap-l> so if I delete them, at some point they will returl
[18:23] <snap-l> return
[18:24] <rick_h> jrwren: whatever the nginx default is I'd imagine
[18:24] <snap-l> GOt them for my bro-in-law
[18:24] <rick_h> jrwren: yea, I need to update the version and such there sometime. It's hack-hosted, the captchas don't work, etc
[18:25] <jrwren> no worries, just curious
[18:45] <snap-l> rick_h: We rely on that service
[18:45] <snap-l> mostly because it means we don't have to install our own. ;)
[18:45] <rick_h> snap-l: in that case I better get it off the sqlite db and setup multiple backends with failover :P
[18:46] <snap-l> and compile the code too
[18:46] <snap-l> I want it to load in less than .2ms
[18:46] <snap-l> chop chop
[18:47] <brousch> i will set up a competing pastebin running on django
[18:47] <brousch> that will prompt him to action
[18:47] <rick_h> lol
[18:47] <snap-l> Nah, Ruby on Rails will do it
[18:48] <rick_h> everyone knows django isn't good for anything! not even a pastebin!
[18:48] <brousch> it is kind of a messy add-on
[18:48] <snap-l> It's good for being a podunk newspaper site
[18:48] <snap-l> and we all know newspapers are dying anyway
[18:49] <rick_h> ask waldo, he was having fun with "django apps" last night at CHC
[18:49] <snap-l> surprised they didn't use Wordpress instead.
[18:49] <brousch> django apps are simultaneously the best part of django and its biggest problem
[18:49] <brousch> there's an app for whatever you want, but it always takes some hacking to get it into your site
[18:50] <brousch> once you've hacked it, then you have to keep hacking it on updates
[18:50] <jrwren> isn't that what git is for?
[18:51] <brousch> yes
[18:51] <brousch> but for something that is supposed to be plug and play, having to resort to forking is not how it should be
[18:52] <jrwren> oh, they are supposed to plug and play?
[18:52] <jrwren> I didn't know that.
[18:52] <jrwren> i like forks.
[18:52] <jrwren> i like forks best when they automerge
[18:52] <brousch> https://bitbucket.org/jespern/django-piston/descendants
[18:52] <greg-g> I like forks best when they have tasty food they're bringing to my mouth
[18:53] <rick_h> oh oh oh...finally!!! the tests pass...
[18:54]  * rick_h does a happy dance...
[18:54] <jrwren> i'mma laugh when you get a 500 :p
[18:54] <jrwren> tests pass... why don't it work?
[18:54] <rick_h> because it's only the second of the 4 sets of tests I broke...
[18:55] <rick_h> !@$#@$#@ doctests...die die die!!!!
[18:55] <jrwren> ouch
[18:55] <rick_h> all the layers of security hate me since I want to access email addressses
[19:00] <brousch> what is the pyramid equivalent of a django add-on app?
[19:00] <rick_h> depends
[19:01] <brousch> the diapers?
[19:01] <rick_h> a tween for some thing, a library for others, another wsgi app
[19:01] <brousch> are they as prone to getting forked?
[19:01] <jrwren> i'd have said pyramid doesn't have an equiv
[19:01] <rick_h> not currently
[19:02] <rick_h> jrwren: well the idea is adding functionality to your app via someone else's code
[19:02] <rick_h> jrwren: so you can do that in generally 4 ways
[19:02] <brousch> because pyramid has 10% of django's user base or because they are better designed?
[19:02] <brousch> i don't think flask plugins have the same issue
[19:03] <rick_h> another wsgi layer, a tween, importing a lib and adding to your app's config, or just something you can import/use
[19:05] <rick_h> but yea, none of them are really the same as the django ap
[19:05] <rick_h> app
[19:05] <brousch> lib sounds closest
[19:06] <rick_h> not really because a lib will have issues with migratoins/etc while django apps have that idea built in I think
[19:06] <rick_h> at least db access/tools
[19:21] <jrwren>  the db access is just django model.
[19:21] <jrwren> or it could opt for other.
[19:21] <jrwren> and django still has no default migration lib
[19:22] <rick_h> jrwren: yea, I guess I mean syncdb
[19:22] <jrwren> ah, right.
[19:23] <jrwren> that is true.
[19:23] <jrwren> and you can even tie into django commands
[19:23] <jrwren> to extend manage.py
[19:23] <rick_h> right
[19:23] <brousch> i haven't looked at south yet
[19:23] <rick_h> south is pretty much the one true migration for django
[19:24] <brousch> no, there is another
[19:24] <brousch> nash vegas
[19:25] <brousch> http://nashvegas.readthedocs.org/en/latest/
[19:26] <rick_h> well, inside canonical all the django apps are south users
[19:28] <brousch> it is the leader
[19:33] <snap-l> Anyone else think the JOBS bill is going to usher in another internet bubble?
[19:34] <rick_h> haven't looked...
[19:34] <rick_h> figure I've got a job, and if I lose it I'll get another... :)
[19:35] <snap-l> It's not for employment
[19:35] <rick_h> ah, then I'm doubly stupid about it
[19:35] <snap-l> It's for investing without being on the stock market.
[19:37] <snap-l> http://www.buzzmachine.com/2012/04/05/the-importance-of-jobs/
[19:42]  * jrwren notes to try out south
[19:42] <dzho> http://zgp.org/~dmarti/freedom/dude-were-winning/
[19:42] <dzho> dmarti asks a fair point
[19:42] <dzho> er, a fair question
[19:43] <snap-l> Yeah, I don't necessarily think the SEC is better at selecting companies for major investment
[19:44] <dzho> not that.  the 419 point
[19:44] <jrwren> I don't think that is the SECs job.
[19:44] <snap-l> but I regard investors as fools
[19:44] <snap-l> and fools and their money can soon be parted.
[19:45] <snap-l> Note: I think kickstarter is great
[19:45] <jrwren> I'd take offense, but I already know that you ragard me a fool, so its not new to be offended by.
[19:45] <jrwren> its jsut another reason :p
[19:46] <snap-l> and maybe this will get some awesome companies funded
[19:46] <snap-l> jrwren: perhaps I need to rephrase
[19:46] <snap-l> internet investing
[19:46] <jrwren> what does that mean?
[19:46] <jrwren> like investing only in "net" companies?
[19:46] <dzho> snap-l: you regard anyone who isn't self-employed but has a 401K to be a fool?  Or you think they should sock their tax-exempt stuff away in cash?  or  . . . .?
[19:46] <jrwren> that is sooo... mid 90s
[19:46] <snap-l> companies like Groupon who have no visible means of profit, outside of a glorified ponzi scheme.
[19:46] <dzho> not that I disagree, it's just a pretty broad brush
[19:47] <jrwren> 401ks are a scam.
[19:47] <snap-l> jrwren: people who look to make a quick buck off of some smart kids
[19:47] <jrwren> i regard 401k-only investors as fools :(
[19:47] <snap-l> jrwren: I'm a fool, then
[19:47] <jrwren> no investments outside of your 401k?
[19:47] <snap-l> I also have an IRA, which is comprised of my 401K rollovers
[19:48] <jrwren> do you contribute a lot to 401k or just the minimum to get employer match?
[19:48] <snap-l> I contribute my max
[19:48] <jrwren> zomg, stop!
[19:48] <jrwren> you are killing yourself.
[19:48] <jrwren> well, you are hurting yourself.
[19:48] <dzho> you will help yourself by paying more tax!
[19:48] <snap-l> jrwren: What would you recommend instead?
[19:48] <dzho> here it goes
[19:49] <jrwren> take some of that and invest in a non-tax deferred acct.
[19:49] <jrwren> here is why:
[19:50] <jrwren> when you withdrawl from your 401k and ira it gets taxed AS WAGES and not as investment income
[19:50] <jrwren> that means it is in the 35%+ rate
[19:50] <jrwren> and not teh low 18% like romney paid on his investment earnings.
[19:50] <jrwren> you'd have to run the numbers to see what your rates will be
[19:51] <jrwren> but its likely if you end up with large withdrawls that you'll be in a much higher tax bracket than you need to be.
[19:51] <dzho> assuming you withdraw it when you are in the 35% bracket
[19:51] <jrwren> right.
[19:51] <jrwren> like i said, run thenumbers.
[19:51] <mydogsnameisrudy> you pay 20% when you draw your 401
[19:51] <dzho> run the future numbers.
[19:51] <snap-l> What if it's a roth IRA?
[19:51] <jrwren> but I sure plan on retiring with enough $$$ that I can have large withdrawls
[19:51] <dzho> nice trick, how do I do that?
[19:51] <dzho> dear intarwebs, what will my tax rate be in 20 years?
[19:51] <jrwren> its called planning
[19:52] <dzho> damn, dude, we don't even know what the tax code is going to say next year.
[19:52] <jrwren> so... just throwing some infor out there for you to consider.
[19:52] <jrwren> this was big news to me.
[19:52] <jrwren> it did change some decisions I made
[19:52] <jrwren> so I'm sharing
[19:52] <mydogsnameisrudy> if you draw early its 10% more
[19:52] <jrwren> so ignore my advice.
[19:52] <greg-g> jrwren: :)
[19:52] <dzho> snap-l: yeah, roth from what I understand has already been taxed, so . . .
[19:52] <jrwren> like I said " take some of that and invest in a non-tax deferred acct."   <--- i retract thsi advice.
[19:52] <snap-l> jrwren: Considering how we're screwing the baby boomers out of their retirement because of economic reasons, I'll be surprised if I'm not scraping for berries and twigs when I'm retired.
[19:52] <jrwren> i don't want to give advise.
[19:53] <greg-g> jrwren: haha!
[19:53] <snap-l> jrwren: IANAFP
[19:53] <dzho> are we screwing them, or have they screwed us?
[19:53] <greg-g> dzho: ding ding ding
[19:53] <dzho> see the recent Esquire article on that question
[19:54] <jrwren> maybe tehy screwed tehmselves
[19:54] <greg-g> everyone is screwing everyone, <insert lewd joke here>
[19:54] <dzho> or maybe themselves *and* the rest of us!
[19:54] <dzho> haha
[19:54] <dzho> yes, he went there
[19:54] <jrwren> so I don't grok the JOBS bill.
[19:54] <snap-l> All I know is I had everything I could do to not laugh in a lady's face when I was younger. She claimed that Soc Security would be around for my retirement.
[19:54] <jrwren> does it change the regulations for being a qualified investor.
[19:54] <dzho> http://www.esquire.com/features/young-people-in-the-recession-0412-3
[19:55] <jrwren> snap-l: it will if you retire next year :p
[19:55] <dzho> jrwren: I think it puts a higher limit as to what people can invest without being a qualified investor
[19:55] <snap-l> jrwren: not bloody likely
[19:56] <dzho> or rather, someone collecting that investment can have more non-qualified investors without having to go public.  Or . . . something.
[19:56] <dzho> if only we had the world's information at our fingertips so we could look this up
[19:56] <greg-g> jrwren: http://www.forbes.com/sites/jjcolao/2012/03/21/jobs-act/ page two has some good issues, too
[19:57] <brousch> soc sec will be around when we retire. we'll get like $10/wk
[19:57] <greg-g> yay, enough to buy an ice-cream cone
[19:57] <jrwren> dzho: my current understanding is that non-qualified investors are entirely inelligible currently.
[19:57] <jrwren> i do like ice cream cones!
[19:57] <brousch> greg-g: you will only be able to spend it on healthy food
[19:57] <jrwren> anyone go to free cone day at B&J ?
[19:59] <dzho> It feels a little weird, but I trust wikipedia to give me the general lowdown on something like this.
[20:00] <jrwren> greg-g: thanks. the shareholder limit on privately held is facinating.
[20:00] <jrwren> zomg, and 10% or up to 10k$ can be invested.
[20:00] <jrwren> this is HUGE for someone like me.
[20:01] <greg-g> dzho: good point re WP, is there a good article?
[20:01] <dzho> Xeno's paradox will be very important here.
[20:01] <dzho> greg-g: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumpstart_Our_Business_Startups_Act
[20:03] <greg-g> tx
[20:03] <greg-g> that's a good low down
[20:03] <jrwren> this is soo cool.
[20:03] <jrwren> i gotta figure out where to invest my $10k :)
[20:03] <brousch> bmark.us
[20:04] <jrwren> lol, no
[20:04] <greg-g> jrwren: and thanks to the act, you can just trust the wall st analysts who say XYZ is great (nevermind they have a vested interest, and wouldn't normally be able to say such things before this bill) :)
[20:05] <jrwren> Caveat emptor
[20:05] <dzho> does wall street even have to be involved?
[20:05] <snap-l> At least they're trying to keep Senators from profiting off of the stock market by getting stock tips from congressional testimony.
[20:05] <dzho> isn't the point that you don't have to go through folks who have figured out how to navigate the regulatory situation?
[20:06] <dzho> go go Louise Slaughter, on the STOCK Act
[20:06] <dzho> too bad she just broke her leg
[20:07] <snap-l> Couldn't believe that it was legal for congress to do the very thing that Martha Stewart went to jail for
[20:08] <snap-l> Goes to show that those who make the rules don't necessarily follow them
[20:08] <dzho> makes you wonder what other outrages are perfectly legal for them to do
[20:09] <dzho> http://www.buffalonews.com/city/capital-connection/washington/article795640.ece
[20:10] <dzho> also, still need to get more of the original bill into law
[20:14] <jrwren> i still think it is cool that this bill opens up some things that used to require being  an accredited investor
[20:15] <dzho> well, this bill being the JOBS Act, coming back to that from our STOCK Act excursion.
[20:17] <jrwren> yes
[22:43] <greg-g> dudes! such a great service! http://ismycreditcardstolen.com/


[08:02] <santa_> good morning everybody
[08:02] <santa_> RikMills: FYI:
[08:03] <santa_> - test rebuild of the _staging branches for the apps _staging branches: http://tritemio-groomlake.duckdns.org/build-status/buildstatus_ubuntu-exp3/ubuntu-exp3_status_applications.html
[08:04] <santa_> - I plan to do some work today on KA, then frameworks 5.76
[08:04] <santa_> * test rebuild of the _staging branches for the apps
[08:05]  * santa_ is just waking up
[08:05] <RikMills> santa_: ack, and thanks!
[08:06] <RikMills> Qt 5.15 is close, but test infra is being awkward
[08:07] <santa_> aha, thank you
[12:45] <BluesKaj> Hi all


[04:44] <mapps> hi all
[04:45] <daftykins> mornin' o/
[05:13] <mapps> sup!
[05:13] <daftykins> mmm not much just gaming
[10:13] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[10:54] <daftykins> g'day o/
[11:01] <brobostigon> morning daftykins
[15:38] <diddledan_> morning
[15:40] <penguin42> hey
[16:48] <daftykins> one o' those quiet sundays
[16:48] <daftykins> shame about the entitled *ahem* in #ubuntu
[18:39] <directhex> daftykins: i can't do it any more. tech support is rotten, even if you're getting paid thousands a year to do it
[18:39] <directhex> let alone for free
[18:40] <daftykins> i thought you'd escaped it long ago?
[18:46] <diddledan_> I'm entitled.
[18:46] <Myrtti> we went to Lincoln Christmas market
[18:47] <Myrtti> nice pork pies, cheese, sausages and drinks
[18:47] <Myrtti> nice city, too
[18:50] <directhex> daftykins: yeah, but people still expect help online :p
[19:19] <foobarry> programme about the vulcan. great. presented by guy martin mehhhhhhhhh
[19:20] <foobarry> miht watch it on mute
[20:08] <zmoylan-pi> we need a jeremy clarksoniser, some voice filter to make all announcers sound like clarkson... :-P
[20:09] <penguin42> an American I know complained he couldn't understand the Amazon thing on drone delivery
[20:09] <zmoylan-pi> i'm not seeing a problem with that.... :-D
[20:41] <diddledan_> 70% chance of flaming ballocket actually leaving the ground today: http://www.ustream.tv/NASAHDTV/theater
[20:42] <MartijnVdS> Which one today?
[20:42] <diddledan_> cygnus
[20:42] <MartijnVdS> diddledan_: https://twitter.com/nextlaunch -- you might like that
[20:42] <diddledan_> ooh
[20:42] <MartijnVdS> (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDh4uK9PvJU for people who dislike ustream)
[20:42]  * diddledan_ follows
[20:43] <diddledan_> aah that's better - can watch youtube without flash
[20:43] <MartijnVdS> it's a good week for space people
[20:43] <MartijnVdS> diddledan_: you can also Chromecast it to a proper TV ;)
[20:44] <MartijnVdS> LISA Pathfinder earlier
[21:08] <MartijnVdS> ooh nice: https://certificatemonitor.org/
[21:12] <popey> http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/
[21:12] <popey> 33 mins to launch
[21:13] <zmoylan-pi> light blue touch paper and retire...
[21:13] <diddledan_> zmoylan-pi: I can't afford to retire yet
[21:23] <diddledan_> is a shame the nasa stream isn't using 4k yet
[21:23] <diddledan_> they're still on 720
[21:23] <diddledan_> :-(
[21:24]  * zmoylan-pi duct tapes diddledan_ to the primary stage to get best view possible... :-)
[21:24] <diddledan_> eep
[21:24]  * zmoylan-pi also hands diddledan_ bag of sausages...
[21:27] <diddledan_> yummy
[21:28] <diddledan_> BBQ Sausages ftw
[21:54] <diddledan_> "375 to 1 and falling"


[11:31] <BlackDex> hello there, i have a juju that has gone out of controll
[11:31] <BlackDex> it's cpu load i 6 and counting
[11:31] <BlackDex> 300% cpu usage
[11:31] <BlackDex> wich is all cpu's
[11:32] <BlackDex> how can i check what is the issue?
[11:33] <BlackDex> I tried restarting the bootstrap node, but that didn't resovled the issue
[12:05] <jam> BlackDex: do you see anything informative in either "juju debug-log" or by ssh'ing to the bootstrap node and tailing /var/log/juju/machine-0.log ?
[12:06] <BlackDex> not someting i can figure out what is wrong
[12:06] <BlackDex> the juju debug-log is not responding
[12:09] <BlackDex> jam: http://paste.openstack.org/show/yw0NXzEMEyXW8rjuZiCu/
[12:10] <jam> BlackDex: something like "fortress operation aborted" makes me think something internally is failing, causing lots of things to restart, but I think we're missing the root failure in your traceback.
[12:10] <jam> you could try changing the logging config, with: juju model-config -m controller logging-config="<root>=DEBUG;juju.apiserver=INFO"
[12:10] <jam> which might make it a bit less noisy
[12:10] <BlackDex> watcher loop failed: read tcp <IP_ADDRESS>:41456-><IP_ADDRESS>:37017: i/o timeout
[12:11] <BlackDex> oke
[12:11] <BlackDex> one moments
[12:11] <jam> BlackDex: so i/o timeout to 37017 is saying that Mongo stopped talking to us
[12:11] <jam> are you running in HA, or just a single bootstrap node?
[12:11] <BlackDex> just a single node
[12:13] <jam> BlackDex: so the other thing to consider is juju version (should be in the top of "juju status -m controller")
[12:14] <BlackDex> 2.2.4
[12:14] <BlackDex> it states an upgrade is available
[12:14] <jam> BlackDex: I know there were several load-related fixes in 2.2.9
[12:14] <BlackDex> ah
[12:14] <jam> and even more for 2.3.* but you may want to go 2.2.9 first
[12:14] <BlackDex> but i can't install that version as a client
[12:14] <BlackDex> is that a problem?
[12:15] <jam> BlackDex: you should be able to "juju upgrade-juju -m controller --agent-version=2.2.9" even if your client is older.
[12:15] <BlackDex> normally i install the updated client first and then the server
[12:15] <BlackDex> oke
[12:15] <BlackDex> cool
[12:15] <BlackDex> lets see what that does
[12:16] <jam> BlackDex: one caveat is if you're uploading the agent version from the client, rather than downloading it from streams.canonical.com, but that would depend on whether you have internet access, etc.
[12:16] <jam> Sorry I need to go for a bit, will check back in later
[12:16] <BlackDex> npt
[12:16] <BlackDex> np, thx
[12:16] <BlackDex> this is a good start
[13:07] <rick_h> magicaltrout: ping, was thinking of showing the updated ssl terminitation charm as a juju show demo Wed and wanted to see if that's ok
[13:08] <magicaltrout> rick_h: not mine, do what you like :P
[13:08] <rick_h> oh bah
[13:08] <rick_h> why do I always confuse you folks in irc?
[13:08] <rick_h> need a real nickname...like "rick" :P
[13:09] <magicaltrout> i'm not named after a harry potter movie
[13:09] <rick_h> how goes magicaltrout? having fun?
[13:09] <rick_h> magicaltrout: no, just a fish in the zelda game :P like voltfin trout and such
[13:09] <magicaltrout> busy away, getting some bundle stuff cleared away for our store page the ux folks are working on
[13:09] <rick_h> magicaltrout: yea, was working with them last week at the sprint. Fun times
[13:09] <magicaltrout> along with 2 new contracts on random stuff
[13:10] <magicaltrout> and not being paid since December because of a screw up from the US govt.
[13:10] <magicaltrout> you know
[13:10] <magicaltrout> the usual ;)
[13:10] <rick_h> ouch
[13:10] <rick_h> anyone home in that us govt? :P
[13:11] <magicaltrout> they tend to like shutting down then leaving the contractors to keep stuff working, then feel like not paying them for doing so :P
[13:11] <magicaltrout> have just kicked off an interesting project on cancer early detection with a hospital in upstate NY
[13:11] <magicaltrout> thats some interesting stuff
[13:12] <rick_h> magicaltrout: https://youtu.be/UnPI4xKvf0c?t=449
[13:12] <rick_h> magicaltrout: that's cool
[13:12] <magicaltrout> https://cancer.jpl.nasa.gov/ a spin off from that
[13:13] <rick_h> oh man, what was that 80s flick where they take a space ship into a body
[13:13] <magicaltrout> ha, it is true, trump doesn't like giving jobs to people
[13:13] <magicaltrout> when all he does it tout employment ;)
[13:36] <zeestrat> Anyone got some tips on how to further troubleshoot https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju/+bug/1755155?
[13:36] <mup> Bug #1755155: charm hook failures after controller model upgrade from 2.1.2 to 2.3.4 <juju:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1755155>
[13:40] <zeestrat> No fun getting stuck after only upgrading the controller model to 2.3.4 when I want to try out the new features!
[14:23] <BlackDex> jam: It seems that upgrading to juju v2.2.9 did the trick mostly. After upgrading the agents also to 2.2.9 it seemed to settle a little bit.
[23:38] <vern> does anyone know how I can make juju run an arbitrary command on the controller as part of the bootstrap process? I need to configure the host with a new ca cert so that it can talk to some ssl urls that have certs signed by a company certificate authority


[00:10] <pleia2> knome: have some time tomorrow? we should talk marketing stuffs, I want to get a blog post out asking for help with tshirt designs and things and hopefully have some zazzle/cafepress/whatever shop up by release time
[00:11] <knome> ermm, possible
[00:11] <knome> what time were you thinking?
[00:11] <pleia2> evening your time probably
[00:12] <pleia2> I wake up at 16:00 UTC :)
[00:12] <pleia2> but I can get up earlier
[00:12] <knome> hmmh. well, something like 21UTC might work..
[00:12] <pleia2> sounds good
[00:13] <knome> but i'm not sure
[00:13] <knome> i'll try to be around at that time :)
[00:13] <pleia2> ok, I'll ping you again tomorrow and we can figure something out :)
[00:13] <pleia2> I'll be around this weekend too (lots of house projects to do)
[00:14] <knome> right'o
[00:14] <knome> sounds good
[00:14] <Unit193> Anything I should be helping with?
[00:15] <pleia2> Unit193: you can get a sneak peak! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Marketing/Products
[07:34] <Unit193> ochosi: I know you're gone and don't care at this point, but: https://github.com/daz4126/Blackbird/commits/blue and https://github.com/daz4126/Blackbird-Icons but they also aren't ready yet either.
[08:28] <micahg> mr_pouit: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=9397 if you get to it before I upload
[09:26] <mr_pouit> hey
[09:26] <mr_pouit> looking at it
[09:28] <micahg> mr_pouit: ok, brb, I should probably run it first :)
[09:28] <mr_pouit> micahg: you need to add the update-alternatives thing from 1.0.6-0ubuntu4
[09:29] <mr_pouit> (otherwise flavours can't override the config with their own without ugly dpkg-divert)
[09:29] <micahg> mr_pouit: oh? let me see
[09:29] <micahg> :(, ok, good catch :)
[09:31] <micahg> mr_pouit: I don't see that in the 1.0.6-0ubuntu4 changelog
[09:33] <micahg> mr_pouit: do you have time to fix it?
[09:33]  * micahg needs sleep
[09:33] <mr_pouit> yeah, sorry, I wasn't clear: that's the last version to ship these changes, they have been added during oneiric
[09:33] <mr_pouit> yeah, I can do it
[09:33] <mr_pouit> (but I won't be able to upload)
[09:34] <micahg> ok, make sure you grab the latest source off of revu, can you push there when you're done?  with your upload, I can review it when I get up and upload
[09:34] <micahg> s/upload/approval/
[09:35] <mr_pouit> ok
[10:47] <mr_pouit> bah, that's useless as in
[10:47] <mr_pouit> I'm rebasing it on the last lightm source that shipped the gtk greeter
[10:48] <mr_pouit> there are too many changes in ubuntu
[10:48] <mr_pouit> *as is
[11:47] <mr_pouit> micahg: http://lionel.lefolgoc.net/misc/lightdm-gtk-greeter_1.1.4-0ubuntu1.dsc <<< here's one that should work (but it's not based on pkg-xfce anymore). Feel free to adapt it, I won't have more time for it today.
[11:48] <mr_pouit> (i'm away from my key, so i can't upload to revu either)
[11:48] <mr_pouit> bbl
[18:21] <micahg> mr_pouit: thanks :)
[20:25] <pleia2> knome: oh hey, nudge me wgen you're around to talk marketing
[21:48] <micahg> knome: madnick: is xubuntu not part of the release meeting anymore (no e-mail, no meeting presence)
[21:48]  * micahg wonders if xubuntu is planning on having a beta 1
[22:21] <knome> micahg, we are...
[22:22] <knome> pleia2, unfortunately today doesn't work out. i need to go to sleep. maybe tomorrow at about the same time? :)
[22:22] <knome> ->
[22:22] <pleia2> knome: sounds good :)
[22:22] <pleia2> have a good night!


[02:12] <Laney> morning
[02:13] <Laney> jbicha: ah, how do you imagine us using that?
[02:14] <duflu> Morning Laney
[02:14] <Laney> ahoy there duflu
[02:19] <jbicha> Laney: it needs a LP account and I wouldn't want that LP account to be able to be used to upload to Ubuntu directly so I'm not sure if we'll be able to use the feature :|
[02:20] <Laney> jbicha: indeed, but I'm wondering what we could use it for anyway
[02:22] <jbicha> it would be nice to get the pristine-tar and upstream/* branches from Debian mirrored automatically to LP for the packages we maintain in LP
[02:23] <Laney> those might not always be in sync with debian if we package an upstream release first
[02:23] <Laney> although I have in the back of my head an idea for a script to automatically commit all upstream releases to upstream/ and pristine-tar on the salsa branches
[02:24] <Laney> then we could have those in sync all the time
[02:26]  * Laney syncs glib2.0 \o/
[02:27] <Laney> I'm glad Simon did that one, there were a few tedious problems along the way
[02:43] <Laney> here goes Shell
[02:45]  * Laney crosses fingers
[03:04] <jbicha> Laney: did you see the msg in #ubuntu-release that budgie-desktop will need work for the mutter transition?
[03:25] <Laney> nope
[03:25] <Laney> I thought I saw one in here
[03:36] <Laney> oh right
[06:08] <oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
[06:11] <ricotz> oSoMoN, hey
[06:12] <ricotz> oSoMoN, where are the libreoffice 6.0.6 tarballs coming from?
[06:12] <ricotz> (the git tag wasn)
[06:12] <ricotz> (the git tag wasn't bumped in debian/rules)
[06:15] <oSoMoN> good morning ricotz
[06:16] <oSoMoN> ricotz, I might have forgotten to commit the change to debian/rules
[06:16] <oSoMoN> lemme fix that
[06:16] <ricotz> oSoMoN, ok, the tarball content looks fine
[06:16] <oSoMoN> yeah, I have the change locally so the tarballs are built from the right tag
[06:18] <oSoMoN> fixed, thanks for catching this
[06:19] <ricotz> thanks
[08:44] <seb128> hey again desktopers
[08:45] <seb128> being late online but I'm coworking with some GNOME people today :)
[08:53] <Trevinho> Morning
[08:53] <Trevinho> Cool seb128...
[08:53] <Trevinho> Who's there? Hans and?
[09:04] <seb128> hey Trevinho
[09:04] <seb128> Trevinho, hans & garnacho
[09:07] <Trevinho> Ah... Say them all Hi!
[09:07] <Trevinho> seb128: ^
[09:07] <seb128> k :)
[09:20] <ogra> does anyone know where the ttf-ubuntu-font-family content moved ?
[09:52] <jibel> ogra, ttf-ubuntu-fonts-family has been renamed to fonts-ubuntu in bionic or your talking about another releasE?
[09:52] <seb128> ogra, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fonts-ubuntu
[09:52] <ogra> jibel, no, bionic ... it finally found out myself though :)
[09:52] <ogra> thanks !
[09:52] <ogra> (the french to the rescue !)
[09:52] <ogra> :)
[09:56] <seb128> andyrock, I got a livepatch notification, seems the fix landed and is working :)
[09:56] <seb128> or maybe I had the chmod local hack, I don't remember now :/
[09:57] <andyrock> seb128: \o/
[09:57] <andyrock> seb128: still in edge
[09:57] <seb128> right, but seems to be working at least :)
[09:58] <seb128> they should move it to stable
[09:58] <andyrock> seb128: I tested the edge channel yeasterday and reported back to them that it's working
[10:01] <Laney> hey seb128 Trevinho oSoMoN andyrock ogra
[10:02]  * ogra waves to Laney
[10:02] <seb128> Laney, ni hao
[10:02] <seb128> still having fun at debconf?
[10:03] <Laney> yep
[10:03] <Laney> just been planning some things with doko
[10:03] <Laney> 😈😈😈😈😈😈😈😈
[10:05] <seb128> sounds scary :p
[10:06] <Laney> correct reaction
[10:06] <Laney> how's the eu?
[10:07] <Laney> f-ing dbus-test-runner is broken https://bileto.ubuntu.com/excuses/3342/cosmic.html
[10:08] <seb128> :(
[10:08] <seb128> eu is nice and warm but not humid!
[10:08] <Trevinho> Not warm down here... Just lovely :)
[10:09] <Trevinho> I wouldn't ever expected to have better weather in Andalucia que anywhere else.
[10:09] <Trevinho> like 28°, not humid a bit of wind but not too much...
[10:09] <Laney> 🌬
[10:16] <duflu> Morning Trevinho, seb128, andyrock, jibel, oSoMoN, all
[10:16] <seb128> hey duflu , how are you?
[10:16] <duflu> I was a bit deep in code today to say hello
[10:16] <seb128> what are you hacking on?
[10:16] <duflu> seb128, going well and now it's Friday night. I should log off soon
[10:17] <duflu> seb128, https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutter/merge_requests/189
[10:21] <oSoMoN> hey all
[10:22] <oSoMoN> 36.2°C and climbing, it's gonna be a hot day
[10:25] <seb128> hey oSoMoN, how are you?
[10:28] <oSoMoN> hey seb128, I'm good, how are you?
[10:34] <GunnarHj> Hi seb128, just want to nudge you about those freshplayerplugin binaries...
[10:34] <seb128> oSoMoN, very good, coworking with some GNOME guys today
[10:34] <seb128> GunnarHj, let me have a look to that now
[10:34] <oSoMoN> nice
[10:35] <GunnarHj> seb128: Ok.
[10:42] <seb128> GunnarHj, done, let's see
[10:47] <doko> seb128: now that you're aware of update_excuses, component:mismatches and ftbfs, do you know what to do about emacs? ;p
[10:47] <seb128> doko, remove it from the archive? :p
[10:47] <seb128> who needs emacs when you have gedit!
[10:47] <GunnarHj> seb128: Great, crossing my fingers. :)
[10:48] <oSoMoN> Laney, when you have a sec, please merge https://code.launchpad.net/~osomon/britney/hints-ubuntu-libreoffice/+merge/352293
[10:49] <GunnarHj> seb128: There are a couple of pending SRUs too. Will those just work considering that there is nothing previously in -updates?
[10:54] <seb128> GunnarHj, SRU for what?
[10:55] <GunnarHj> seb128: Similar freshplayerplugin uploads with fewer binaries than in -release.
[10:56] <seb128> I don't know if you can delete architectures in a SRU, that's to talk to the SRU team about
[10:57] <GunnarHj> seb128: Ok. They are still in the upload queues. Thanks!
[11:00] <seb128> yw
[11:00] <seb128> doko, do you know why emacs is in main? I wonder why we maintain that at all...
[11:02] <doko> $ fgrep -r emacs .
[11:02] <doko> ./platform.bionic/supported-development-desktop: * emacs
[11:02] <doko> ./platform.bionic/supported-development-desktop: * emacs25
[11:02] <doko> ./platform.bionic/supported-development-desktop: * emacs25-el
[11:02] <doko> ./platform.bionic/supported-development-desktop: * emacs25-nox
[11:02] <doko> ./platform.bionic/supported-development-desktop: * emacs-goodies-el
[11:02] <doko> want to drop vim too?
[11:02] <doko> you can do with ed for sure
[11:03] <xnox> seb128, imho, we can't really have "emacs and vim broken on ubuntu" or unsupported, cause it looks awkward.
[11:03] <seb128> xnox, I disagree it's a desktop component though
[11:04] <xnox> at one point there were packages building elisp bindings, but with archive reorg, we don't need emacs in main for that.
[11:04] <seb128> Laney, Trevinho, that looks buggy
[11:04] <seb128> chrome-gnome-shell: chrome-gnome-shell
[11:04] <seb128> [Reverse-Recommends: gnome-shell (Uploader: laney) (MAIN)]
[11:04] <xnox> seb128, do you actually mean you disagree that ~desktop-packages is the main subscriber to it?
[11:05] <seb128> Laney, Trevinho, chrome-gnome-shell isn't in main for Ubuntu and security nacked that, so it should be downgraded to suggests
[11:05] <xnox> (cause it is a graphical editor by default, and many do use it as a graphical x/gtk IDE)
[11:06] <seb128> xnox, yes, I think us claiming we support it is a best misleading, in practice we do 0 work and have no knowledge about it
[11:06] <seb128> it would be more honest to have it in universe
[11:08] <xnox> seb128, we just had main-subscribers review in portland (?!) maybe you need to re-raise this again up your management chain if you want emacs to be punted on another team.
[11:08] <xnox> seb128, in practice it is well maintained, and we do notice and fix issues if and when they arise (e.g. emacs transitions) yes mostly by working with debian maintainers and via syncs, rather than ubuntu delta, but still.
[11:09] <seb128> xnox, right, I'm going to have a look to supported-development-desktop
[11:09] <seb128> xnox, I don't know who "we" is but it's not us in desktop
[11:09] <seb128> well, the other way is to just ignore that problem and list of packates
[11:09] <seb128> since in practice it doesn't mean much anyway
[11:12] <xnox> seb128, the quality expectations there is that it must build; be usable; and have no critical usability bugs in sort of core modes. Nothing too fancy, nor there is need to maintain and support all the little sub modes. Thus it totally makes sense to stay in a "development" seed and in "main"
[11:12] <xnox> seb128, and the people who jump at fixing it, are obviously those that rely on it and happen to be in ~ubuntu-dev with or without ~canonical too.
[11:13] <seb128> right, it's good to have emacs in shape and working
[11:13] <seb128> I'm not sure having supported-development-desktop makes sense nowadays though
[11:13] <xnox> seb128, why is src:hud and src:unity still in the archive is beyond me =) because imho that is really not maintained anymore =)
[11:13] <seb128> I especially don't see vim and emacs as desktop components
[11:14] <seb128> but let me put on the list for the next catchup meeting between patricia/steve/willcooke
[11:14] <xnox> when i see "development-desktop" i tend to mean "interactive terminal where a person pretends to call themselves a developer uses it"
[11:14] <seb128> xnox, there is a bunch of community members that took over unity
[11:14] <xnox> hence i would expect things like: ed, vim, emacs, VSCode, Eclipse -> all in a pile =)
[11:15] <doko> sorry, we don't have archive-nannies team yet, so you have to bear with some stuff ...
[11:15] <seb128> you mean snaps? :)
[11:15] <seb128> doko, emacs doesn't need to be in main though
[11:16] <xnox> seb128, emacs -> only after there is emacs.el "interface" in snapd =)
[11:16] <seb128> doko, anyway what's the issue with emacs? it's not ftbfsing nor on update_excuses, it's on component mismatch but our team got subscribed so it basically just need to be promoted?
[11:17] <Laney> seb128: yeh I noticed that too, thx for pointing
[11:17] <Laney> it won't migrate anyway until budgie thing is fixed
[11:17] <seb128> right
[11:17] <xnox> seb128, this is just a package rename, no? emacs25 -> emacs
[11:17] <seb128> right
[11:17] <xnox> before that emacs24 was in main
[11:17] <Laney> oSoMoN: not right now, maybe later or someone else can help you (#ubuntu-release), sorry
[11:18] <xnox> and before that 23...
[11:18] <oSoMoN> Laney, no worries
[11:36] <Trevinho> Laney: remember this for laters ™ https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+git/gnome-shell/+merge/351445
[13:24] <seb128> doko, oh, thanks for the yaru theme MIR review btw!
[16:49] <seb128> have a nice w.e desktopers
[16:53] <oSoMoN> time to wrap up, have a good week-end!
[20:43] <raidensnake> sorry to ask but someone needs to build a fix for the intel cherry trail audio for bionic