[00:01] <jasoncwarner_> DBO: next thing you'll want to do rapid release unity every two hours and get rid of version numbers...and write it in gecko and js
[00:02] <DBO> Go and Haskell
[00:02] <DBO> (Haskell is the scripting language if that wasn't obvious)
[00:02] <jasoncwarner_> if you said erlang , you would have hda me...but you chose poorly in your functional language...
[00:02] <jasoncwarner_> even clojure would have gotten my attention
[00:02] <jasoncwarner_> ;)
[00:03] <DBO> and I would like to move to hashes instead of version numbers, Unity "ae6b3e77fd3ff2765aa254f7e7d5cf0a"
[00:03] <jasoncwarner_> DBO: neil will never take another vacationn
[00:03] <DBO> Oh and lastly, I think we should move on top of the BSD kernel
[00:03] <DBO> I hear good things
[00:04] <DBO> to support this move, I have begun adding direct BSD kernel calls into Unity
[00:05] <robert_ancell> that's it - I'm moving to Arch
[00:06] <TheMuso> lol
[00:25] <jbicha> port it to KDE & call it Kunity
[00:26] <TheMuso> lol
[00:26] <DBO> that sounds dirty
[00:36] <DBO> is the fact that the lock screen doesn't update when you change your wallpaper known?
[00:55] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, hey, can I grab you today to do some a11y testing in unity-greeter?
[00:57] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: Certainly can.
[00:57] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, when is good for you?
[00:57] <TheMuso> Any time from now till about 1, and then from 2 afterwards. Just let me know when you're ready.
[00:58] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, let's go :)
[00:58] <TheMuso> Ok.
[00:58] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, can you branch lp:unity-greeter, do the standard autogen.sh, configure, make etc, then run ./src/unity-greeter --test-mode
[00:58] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: Sure.
[00:59] <robert_ancell> There is a menu with a few a11y options.  In particular, I want to know if the screen reader reads out the right strings, and what other a11y features are of high importance for a greeter
[00:59] <robert_ancell> I have high contrast, onscreen keyboard and screen reader
[00:59] <TheMuso> Ok.
[00:59] <robert_ancell> I think we need dwell click and probably sticky keys.  Not sure if anything else is needed (i.e. no need for magnifier as not many elements to see etc)
[01:00] <TheMuso> Right, and magnifier would need 3D acceleration anyway.
[01:02] <TheMuso> Ok what shoudl I be seeing? With Orca, I can see my hostname, a menu, a push button, and login...
[01:02] <TheMuso> So for example, I can visually see the indicators, but cannot seem to get to them with keyboard/mouse.
[01:03] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, when you select a user, does it prompt with the right info (i.e. "Luke Yelavitch, enter password" or whatever is appropriate)
[01:03] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, you can't get to them with the mouser?
[01:03] <robert_ancell> mouser?
[01:03] <robert_ancell> mouse?:
[01:03] <robert_ancell> argh!
[01:03] <robert_ancell> mouse
[01:03] <TheMuso> I can't see a user list.
[01:04] <TheMuso> Not visually, or with Orca.
[01:04] <robert_ancell> can you send me a screenshot?
[01:04] <robert_ancell> you're running with --test-mode right?
[01:04] <TheMuso> And when I use the arrow keys, the background changes...
[01:04] <TheMuso> Sure.
[01:04] <TheMuso> one sec.
[01:05] <TheMuso> I'll email...
[01:06] <TheMuso> sent
[01:08] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, that is very weird...  Can you send me stdout+stderr of the greeter?
[01:08] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: Sure, let me restart it.
[01:09] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, oh also bzr pull again.  I updated the high contrast them a little
[01:09] <TheMuso> oh ok
[01:12] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: http://paste.ubuntu.com/677599/
[01:22] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, oh, you need to do a make install somewhere
[01:22] <TheMuso> Oh right.
[01:25] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: Right, I see what is supposed to happen.
[01:25] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: Ok, when using the arrow to change the user, the new user name is not being spoken.
[01:26] <TheMuso> Ok, its possible to get to the indicator menu with F10, nice. But only menu is spoken...
[01:26] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, right, so it's a custom widget, so I'll need to add some ATK stuff.   Any hints here would be nice
[01:26] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, they're standard indicators afaik, is this the same behaviour as in the session?
[01:27] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: Not quite, F10 usually opens a menu in the session, whether it be the session indicator or something else...
[01:27] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: What kind of custom widgets are they? Is the password text entry a standard GTK text field?
[01:27] <robert_ancell> my F10 key doesn't seem to do anything, either in unity or the greeter
[01:28] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, the list of usernames is custom, and it embeddes a standard GtkTextEntry or GtkButton inside it
[01:28] <TheMuso> Ok, because when typing something in the password entry field and pressing backspace, I am not getting feedback that I am deleDdeleting something.
[01:28] <robert_ancell> So, should the button have the text "Password for Luke", or should there be two elements?
[01:29] <robert_ancell> yeah, I don't get the backspace, not sure why
[01:29] <robert_ancell> But I get it when typing in xchat
[01:30] <TheMuso> Well, I see now that some users can just click log-in, i.e have no password.
[01:30] <robert_ancell> yes
[01:30] <TheMuso> I am trying to work out in my head what I might want, given the way the greeter works visually.
[01:30] <robert_ancell> And orca is saying "Login button".  It should probably say "Log in as guest"?
[01:31] <robert_ancell> Or should it say "Guest Account" "Login button"
[01:31] <robert_ancell> or "Luke" "Password entry"
[01:33] <TheMuso> Thinking of gdm, the user would select the user with arrows, which would be spoken as the username only. They would then press tab to move to the password entry field. So, maybe something like "Password for user"
[01:33] <TheMuso> And we'd have to special case the other user, so that the user would know they needed to enter a username first.
[01:34] <TheMuso> In the case of users like guest with a login button, perhaps something like "Username"
[01:34] <TheMuso> Because the login button is being seen as a standard widget, so we need to make sure the user name is spoken first.
[01:35] <TheMuso> brb
[01:35] <jbicha> TheMuso: real name would be better than just user name, right?
[01:37] <TheMuso> jbicha: Yes, of course.
[01:37] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: As for the atk side of things, let me have a look in accerciser and see what it sees in the greeter window.
[01:37] <robert_ancell> ok
[01:37] <robert_ancell> Is it obvious to a blind user to press up/down to switch users?
[01:40] <TheMuso> Probably not, but I don't know how we could convey that to the user. Gdm certainly didn't make it clear that there was a user list.
[01:47] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: As for the atk side itself, what you could do, is create an atk object that represents the label of the currently selected user, and its name get supdated when the user is changed. This object could then be set as the label for the password or login button object.
[01:48] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, ok, cool.  That's what I thought it should be.
[01:48] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, The text needs to contain if it's a button or text entry right?
[01:49] <robert_ancell> And should it be what the element is, or what it does.  i.e. "Luke password entry" or "Enter password for Luke"
[01:49] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: I don't think you'd need that for the login button, but for the password entry field, yes, particularly if the user switches between two users that have a password set.
[01:49] <TheMuso> Probably enter password for user
[01:51] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, what element of the ATK object do I set? name?
[01:51] <TheMuso> Name
[01:52] <TheMuso> and you probably want to set the role to LABEL
[01:56] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, name=label?
[01:57] <robert_ancell> i.e both set to the same?
[01:57] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, ok pushed some changes.  Sounds a little better that before
[01:57] <TheMuso> No, the name gets set to the text you want spoken, and the role should be set to ATK_ROLE_LABEL
[01:57] <robert_ancell> I get a "frame".  I'm guessing that's the main window? i.e. the greeter?
[01:57] <TheMuso> Very likely yes.
[01:59] <TheMuso> Sweet, that works really nice.
[01:59] <TheMuso> The only issue now is the other option.
[02:00] <TheMuso> That will need to be special cased, because that currently still says password even though its the username.
[02:00] <robert_ancell> yes, why does it think it's a password field?
[02:00] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, what should the main window be called? "Login Screen"?
[02:00] <TheMuso> Without knowing how the widget is created etc, I am not sure.
[02:00] <TheMuso> Yeah I guess thats ok.
[02:01] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, ok, now it says "Login screen frame".  Does that make sense?
[02:01] <TheMuso> Yep.
[02:02] <TheMuso> Or maybe even just login is better, since frame is known to be a window, whether it be screen sized or not.
[02:02] <TheMuso> For example, the Desktop is known as a desktop frame, even though its the size of the screen.
[02:03] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: One more thing. The button that opens the menu to choose the sessions needs to be labeled.
[02:03] <TheMuso> Something like "Sessions"
[02:04] <TheMuso> Or "choose session"
[02:06] <robert_ancell> "Session options"?
[02:06] <robert_ancell> hmm, the text entry really wants to be "password"
[02:07] <TheMuso> Session options works.
[02:07] <TheMuso> Hrm interesting re the password field...
[02:08] <robert_ancell> I wonder if it might be a bug in GTK, i.e. once you set it to a password entry it remains that way
[02:08] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: I wonder if you were to change the role of the accessible object representing the text field to ATK_ROLE_LABEL. It may not be changed when the text field changes.
[02:08] <TheMuso> Yeah, or as above, the role is not being changed in the atk object.
[02:09] <robert_ancell> nope, that didn't work
[02:09] <TheMuso> Damn.
[02:09] <robert_ancell> I've tried explicitly setting it to TEXT and LABEL but no change
[02:09] <robert_ancell> I think I'll just have two separate widgets
[02:11] <TheMuso> hrm ok
[02:12] <TheMuso> This is weird, now unity-greeter is not showing up in accerciser.
[02:16] <jbicha> robert_ancell: I can't build unity-greeter http://paste.ubuntu.com/677625/
[02:16] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, I think it may be a bug in orca.  GTK is correctly changing the role
[02:16] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: Ah, it may be an at-spi caching issue now that you mention that.
[02:16] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, so, I should just ignore it?
[02:17] <TheMuso> A new orca is due out any time now, and supposedly has work-arounds to solve such issues.
[02:17] <robert_ancell> jbicha, what version of valac?  valac --version
[02:17] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: Yes, and I'll see what I can do about getting some folks looking at it upstream should the issue persist with a new upstream version of orca.
[02:17] <jbicha> robert_ancell: oops, vala 0.12, let me fix that
[02:18] <robert_ancell> jbicha, yeah, it probably required 0.14.  I'll update configure.ac
[02:19] <jbicha> robert_ancell: yup, works now with 0.14
[02:20] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, do you get a python process using 100% cpu using a11y sometimes?
[02:21] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: Yes, and its at-spi related, a fix is in the new upstream of at-spi2-core 2.1.90./
[02:21] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, ok, I've pushed changes for all the things you've asked for.  Can you give it a run over now
[02:21] <robert_ancell> yay :)
[02:21] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: Sure will do.
[02:24] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, noticed one thing, how do I notify login failure messages?
[02:24] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: How are they presented to the user?
[02:24] <TheMuso> I mean visually?
[02:24] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, the label above the password entry is changed to red and shows the message
[02:24] <jbicha> robert_ancell: what do i need to do to see the userlist in testmode? because it's blank here too
[02:24] <TheMuso> Ok. Is there any way I can trigger a failure in the test mode?
[02:24] <robert_ancell> In fact, that label could ask for anything, not just a password
[02:25] <robert_ancell> jbicha, make install
[02:25] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, The passwords are "password" in test mode
[02:25] <robert_ancell> so anything else should cause an error
[02:25] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: oh I see how to trigger a wrong password.
[02:25] <TheMuso> And I see what happens visually.
[02:26] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: What if you simply change the name of the label's accessible object to the same text that is shown visually?
[02:26] <jbicha> robert_ancell: I did make install, then I cd into the install location and ./sbin/unity-greeter --test-mode
[02:26] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, will that trigger the screen reader?
[02:27] <robert_ancell> jbicha, that should be it, can you send me the stdout+stderr
[02:27] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: hrm probably not, I guess the reason why going through the user list triggers it now is due to focus changes.
[02:28] <robert_ancell> To map what happens visually, every time that label changes it should be read out
[02:28] <TheMuso> Right.
[02:29] <jbicha> sudo nano t
[02:29] <TheMuso> And with the other option in the user list, entering a username and pressing enter doesn't speak password, even though the password prompt is the next one to be entered.
[02:29] <jbicha> sudo pkill lightdm
[02:30] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: And why does onboard get loaded immediately on greeter load?
[02:30] <jbicha> sorry, had some crashes with gnome-shell, back in Unity now
[02:31] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, the other options speaks both for me
[02:32] <TheMuso> hrm... interesting.
[02:32] <TheMuso> I am running a partially upgraded at-spi stack here though, that *may* have something to do with it...
[02:32] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, Yeah, I should probably make onboard load on demand
[02:34] <robert_ancell> onboard now loaded on demand
[02:34] <TheMuso> ok
[02:34] <robert_ancell> jbicha, any luck now?
[02:35] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, do you know if anyone has asked the ubuntu-mono icon theme to make a nice a11y icon?  The default one is still blue right?
[02:35] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: No I don't.,
[02:36] <robert_ancell> I need to find someone to whip one up or it's going to look u-g-l-y
[02:36] <TheMuso> Right
[02:39]  * robert_ancell goes hunting for lunch
[02:39] <jbicha> robert_ancell: http://paste.ubuntu.com/677636/
[02:39] <TheMuso> Yeah not a bad idea, won't be around from 1-2, and lunch needed before then.
[02:46] <jbicha> for ambiance, can't you just borrow /usr/share/icons/gnome/scalable/apps/preferences-desktop-accessibility-symbolic.svg
[02:46] <jbicha> which I believe is used for GNOME Shell's a11y menu
[03:06] <robert_ancell> jbicha, awesome,  Thanks!
[03:07] <jbicha> robert_ancell: how come the password box doesn't use • as the invisible_char ?
[03:07] <robert_ancell> jbicha, the design had the asterisk instead
[03:07] <jbicha> oh ok, just checking if it was intentional
[03:07] <jbicha> maybe I'll go bug the design guys :-)
[03:08] <robert_ancell> jbicha, you have no users listed right?  can you send a screenshot?
[03:08] <jbicha> is the greeter design publicly posted?
[03:10] <jbicha> robert_ancell: http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/8582/workspace1040.png
[03:11] <robert_ancell> jbicha, no, unfortunately
[03:12] <jbicha> thanks, maybe I'll just open a bug report to make sure
[03:19] <TheMuso> jbicha: Did you remember to make install somewhere? That was the mistake I made.
[03:19] <jbicha> robert_ancell: mpt reported bug 834878 , he speaks for design, right?
[03:19] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 834878 in unity-greeter "Unity greeter password field uses old-fashioned asterisks" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/834878
[03:20] <jbicha> TheMuso: yes, I make installed and then ran from the install location
[03:20] <robert_ancell> jbicha, that's the problem with a non-public design, he probably hasn't seen it!
[03:21] <robert_ancell> (I don't care what they are personally)
[03:21] <jbicha> it's not a big deal to me but the little things add up eventually
[03:22] <jbicha> robert_ancell: I think the designs should be publicized when the code is released, or if not at least when it becomes default
[03:22] <robert_ancell> jbicha, I think that's the plan, but I'm not sure what the process is
[03:23] <robert_ancell> I'll send an email to them, because it is starting to become a problem
[03:24] <jbicha> robert_ancell: thank you, it's easier to tell whether something is missing or by design & thus whether to talk to the developer or the designers
[03:25] <robert_ancell> yeah, and the current greeter is not 100% of the design due to time considerations
[03:31] <jbicha> robert_ancell: when I run --test-mode, the indicators aren't in greeter mode but normal mode
[03:32] <robert_ancell> jbicha, yeah, I don't know why that happens.  You'll have to ask mterry as he did the indicator work
[03:32] <robert_ancell> thanks mterry!
[03:32] <robert_ancell> jbicha, I just pushed a change that stops the missing list bug you've got - it seems to happen when it can't find logo.png
[03:38] <jbicha> robert_ancell: thanks, 2 more questions, F10 isn't working, not sure if that's Unity's fault
[03:38] <jbicha> and keyboard navigation of the indicators doesn't wrap around
[03:38] <robert_ancell> jbicha, thanks.  please file bugs
[03:38] <jbicha> will do
[04:14] <pitti> Good morning
[04:17] <pitti> jbicha: only the uploader should do the dch -r/debcommit -r parts, otherwise you already claim an upload where none has happened; the sponsor might want to add a few extra things or corrections, or the main branch might have gotten other changes in between, or the package might not yet be ready for uploading
[04:18] <pitti> jbicha: if your branch already tags a release, the sponsor needs to manually set it back to UNRELEASED, untag it, etc.
[04:25] <jbicha> pitti: ok thanks and good morning
[04:26] <jbicha> I got away with a bunch of uploads without doing that & not all sponsors expect to see UNRELEASED but I've switched over now
[04:50] <TheMuso> Morning pitti.
[04:50] <pitti> hey TheMuso
[04:51] <pitti> TheMuso: thanks for the quick at-spi fix
[04:51] <TheMuso> pitti: np
[04:51] <pitti> TheMuso: have you been on holidays last week?
[04:51] <TheMuso> pitti: yes I was, I said that yesterday. :)
[04:52] <pitti> TheMuso: ah, welcome back then! hope you had a good time?
[04:52] <pitti> TheMuso: sorry, must have missed it; release stress..
[04:52] <TheMuso> certainly did
[04:52] <TheMuso> understood.
[05:39] <didrocks> good morning
[05:44] <pitti> bonjour didrocks
[05:44] <didrocks> guten morgen pitti! How are you?
[05:45] <pitti> didrocks: not bad, thanks!
[05:45] <pitti> didrocks: sorry for the oneconf bug; I should have looked at it first
[05:45] <pitti> before I assigned to you
[05:45] <didrocks> pitti: I was just kidding, no worry :-)
[05:45] <pitti> I guess it needed a full path
[05:45] <pitti> didrocks: no, you were right, it was my fault
[05:45] <pitti> didrocks: but I guess it's moot now, it can use GI now
[05:45] <didrocks> pitti: anyway, it's pure pygi now for that part :)
[05:45] <didrocks> right
[05:46] <pitti> (and rather "needs to use")
[05:46] <didrocks> pitti: oh btw, I fixed some other crashes (most of them are due to dbus not answering), and as you have more dbus foo than I have:
[05:46] <didrocks> for bug #834394, how do you deal with that normally?
[05:46] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 834394 in oneconf "oneconf-service crashed with DBusException in call_blocking(): org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.NoReply: Did not receive a reply. Possible causes include: the remote application did not send a reply, the message bus security policy blocked the reply, the reply timeout expired, or the network connection was broken." [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/834394
[05:47] <didrocks> making a retry if we receive no answer, like adding it to a timeout and try it again
[05:47] <didrocks> (it's not vital, but necessarry for launching the syncing process, so the daemon can work without getting the sso, and try to get it again later for syncing)
[05:47] <pitti> didrocks: hm, the usual reason for that is not a real timeout, but because the backend crashes
[05:47] <pitti> didrocks: i. e.
[05:47] <pitti> - frontend makes d-bus call
[05:47] <pitti> - backend gets it, processes, crashes
[05:48] <pitti> - frontend doesn't get response back and complains with above error
[05:48] <pitti> i. e. the traces from the frontend are usually rather useless
[05:48] <pitti> you need the actual backend crash
[05:48] <didrocks> ok, so in this case, ubuntusso is crashing
[05:49] <didrocks> but I still have to handle that gracefully I guess
[05:49] <didrocks> (as the ubuntu sso backend is a dbus activated service… I can't just do a retry)
[05:50] <pitti> didrocks: we currently have a bug in desktopcouch/couchdb that throws "not authenticated" exceptions, may it be that?
[05:50] <didrocks> pitti: I don't use anymore desktopcouch/couchdb, it's all ubuntu sso and direct/manual syncing to webcatalog
[05:52] <pitti> ah, ok
[05:53] <didrocks> pitti: also, just a last question, any idea what can happen there? https://launchpadlibrarian.net/77297035/Traceback.txt
[05:53] <didrocks> I don't sync the dbus service died here :)
[05:54] <pitti> hm, I've never seen that one
[05:54] <pitti> it might be another way of saying "the backend has crashed"?
[05:54] <didrocks> hum, which backend in this case?
[05:55] <pitti> call_blocking() sounds like it's doing a d-bus call?
[05:55] <didrocks> to get  dbus.SessionBus().list_names()
[05:56] <pitti> oh, wow
[05:56] <pitti> NFC, I'm afraid :/
[05:57] <didrocks> pitti: ok, no worry, right now, I'm just exiting the daemon in this case, I'll see later if I need to do a wait/retry thing
[05:58] <didrocks> pitti: thanks for looking at it! :-)
[05:58] <pitti> I just found that real timeouts are rather rare
[05:58] <pitti> didrocks: can you reproduce that crash, or did you just see it on a bug report?
[05:59] <didrocks> I just saw it on bug #826687 but with 3 duplicates
[05:59] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 826687 in oneconf "oneconf-service crashed with DBusException in call_blocking(): org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.Disconnected: Connection was disconnected before a reply was received" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/826687
[06:00] <pitti> didrocks: which pygobject do you have running, 2.90 from the PPA, or 2.28 from oneiric?
[06:00] <pitti> didrocks: I just fixed a grave bug in jockey which only happens with 2.28
[06:01] <didrocks> pitti: 2.28 from oneiric
[06:02] <pitti> ok, so that's not it then
[06:42] <chrisccoulson> good morning everyoner
[06:42] <pitti> hey chrisccoulson, good morning
[06:42] <chrisccoulson> hi pitti, how are you?
[06:42] <pitti> quite fine, thanks!
[06:46] <didrocks> hey chrisccoulson!
[06:46] <pitti> hmm, no seb128 this week to remind me about the reminder
[06:46]  * pitti reminds-reminds himself
[06:46] <chrisccoulson> hi didrocks, how are you?
[06:46] <didrocks> oh right, I reminded seb128 when you were not there, but didn't remind about reminding you :)
[06:47] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: excellent thanks! saw the nice improvment from oneiric in two weeks. Overall impression is that it looks snappier here
[06:47] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, yeah, it's looking pretty good
[08:04] <Sweetshark> G'Morning!
[08:04] <pitti> hey Sweetshark
[08:18] <Sweetshark> pitti: Heya.
[08:19] <rodrigo_> morning
[08:20] <pitti> hey rodrigo_, how are you?
[08:20] <rodrigo_> hi pitti, I'm fine, and you?
[08:20] <pitti> pretty well, thanks!
[08:20] <Sweetshark> pitti: I got the build on ppc to finished (failed) -- it took agaes because the job was killed at least twice (or davis was rebooted). But since I not have a completed build I have  decent change to fix the stuff (using partial/incremental builds).
[08:22] <pitti> Sweetshark: oh dear; sounds painful!
[08:22] <pitti> Sweetshark: so is it the same libgcc workaround as for armel? doko mentioned something about this yesterday
[08:32] <Sweetshark> pitti: yes, it pretty much is. I prevented it to break by not trying to unprelink it, which prevented the early buildbreaker in external or sal. but then it broke in instsetoo_native because it still wanted to pack it.
[08:34] <Sweetshark> pitti: I am now again copying it to the solver (both linker script and the dynlib), so it will be packed again. The packing is still wrong as it does not allow cross-distro closed source development of c++ extensions. trying that on armel is doomed anyway (as of now).
[08:35] <didrocks> hum, the OneConf change is really really not trivial…
[08:36] <pitti> didrocks: do you need some help with the GI porting?
[08:37] <didrocks> pitti: it's not really GI related, but the new design landed and it mixes the installed and OneConf view, which introduces a lot of changes (as there is no more main treeview)
[08:52] <ricotz> rodrigo_, ping
[08:54] <ricotz> rodrigo_, please have a look at the folks merge proposal
[08:57] <xclaesse> why is there no gir1.2-folks package ?
[08:57] <xclaesse> ricotz, ^
[08:57] <xclaesse> at least for folks 0.6 in oneiric
[08:57] <ricotz> xclaesse, no body cared about until now
[08:57] <rodrigo_> ricotz, ok
[08:58] <xclaesse> ricotz, for me it is because gnome-shell does not build
[08:58] <ricotz> rodrigo_, thanks, this depends on an eds update to
[08:58] <ricotz> rodrigo_, https://code.launchpad.net/~ricotz/evolution-data-server/ubuntu/+merge/73243
[08:58] <rodrigo_> ricotz, hmm, folks or e-d-s?
[08:59] <ricotz> xclaesse, i know ;)
[08:59] <ricotz> rodrigo_, both
[08:59] <rodrigo_> ah ok :)
[08:59] <ricotz> the folks gir building depends on present gir of eds
[08:59] <xclaesse> ricotz, ah that's what you are discussing as well :)
[09:00] <ricotz> rodrigo_, if you are doing them please grab them on the desktop-pad
[09:01] <rodrigo_> ricotz, didn't work earlier, let me try loading the etherpad now...
[09:01] <rodrigo_> ah, it works now!
[09:01] <ricotz> rodrigo_, i also had vala prepared ;)
[09:02] <rodrigo_> ricotz, I submitted vala 0.13.3 last night
[09:02] <rodrigo_> ricotz, do you need anything newer than that?
[09:02] <xclaesse> ricotz, btw if you build latest gnome-shell, make sure to have latest gjs too (1_29_17)
[09:02] <ricotz> rodrigo_, i saw that, but it has been in the pad for a while ;)
[09:02] <xclaesse> otherwise it will crash
[09:03] <rodrigo_> ricotz, right, sorry, it didn't work for me yesterday, I was getting all the time a 'proxy error' ????
[09:03] <ricotz> xclaesse, alright
[09:03] <ricotz> rodrigo_, no problem
[09:08] <Sweetshark> urgks
[09:09]  * Sweetshark forgot -nc on "dpkg-buildpackage
[09:14] <pitti> aka --reduce-universe-heating
[09:27]  * Sweetshark now creates some more entrophy for the universe...
[09:37] <rodrigo_> if a package is waiting for approval in the queue, I can still submit another version, right?
[09:41] <pitti> rodrigo_: yes
[09:42] <rodrigo_> pitti, ok
[09:42] <pitti> njpatel: is it already known that the dash is too big for a netbook screen? (1024x600)
[09:42] <pitti> it's cut off at the right and at the bottom
[09:42] <pitti> there's plenty of unused space at the left, and also at the top/bottom
[09:43] <njpatel> pitti, nope, is there a bug for that?
[09:43] <njpatel> should be an easy enough fix
[09:44] <pitti> njpatel: I'll report it then
[09:44] <njpatel> pitti, thanks and please assign to me
[09:46] <pitti> njpatel: ah, bug 825370
[09:46] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 825370 in unity "new dash does not fit a normal netbook screen" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/825370
[09:47] <pitti> hm, why doesn't LP find any "Neil", "Neil Patel" or "njpatel" when I try to assign..
[09:48] <pitti> ah, now
[09:48] <pitti> seems it doesn't work for the upstream task, just for the ubuntu task
[09:50] <pitti> meh, pressing the power button still immediately shuts down now
[09:50] <pitti> I tought we already fixed that a while ago?
[09:51] <njpatel> Pici,
[09:51] <njpatel> woops
[09:51] <njpatel> pitti, no idea, the new person search stuff hasn't really worked for me
[09:51] <pitti> njpatel: I assigned the ubuntu task to you, anyway
[09:52] <njpatel> thanks
[09:54] <pitti> rodrigo_: I'm still quite confused why GNOME moved the keyboard settings out of "keyboard" into "region and language"..
[09:54] <njpatel> pitti, bug #?
[09:54] <njpatel> ah, ignore me
[09:54] <Sweetshark> huh? aptitude tells me the<EMAIL_ADDRESS>key on de.archive.ubuntu.com is invalid?
[09:59] <rodrigo_> pitti, design decision :)
[10:00] <rodrigo_> pitti, in 3.1.90 there is a link in the keyboard panel to the region one
[10:00] <rodrigo_> so at least now there is a connection between the 2
[10:02] <pitti> rodrigo_: but as we don't use the region one, I guess we need yet another solution?
[10:02] <pitti> rodrigo_: design decision> yeah, why would someone ever look for the keyboard layout in the keyboard settings..
[10:04] <pitti> DBO: hm, pressing ctrl+alt on a brand new install of the beta-1 images pops up the alt+tab window switcher
[10:04] <rodrigo_> pitti, I guess we can patch the keyboard panel to be linked with the language-selector, rather than the region panel
[10:04] <pitti> actually, I think it's the alt+` one
[10:04] <pitti> rodrigo_: but language-selector doesn't offer a keyboard layout
[10:05] <rodrigo_> right
[10:05] <pitti> rodrigo_: I think there has been a bug about not being able to change the layout
[10:12] <Chipaca> can a package in main recommend a package in universe?
[10:12] <Chipaca> (i'm assuming yes, but thought i'd check)
[10:13] <rodrigo_> Chipaca, I think it can, yes
[10:48] <jbicha> Chipaca: I didn't think that was allowed
[10:48] <Chipaca> jbicha: ok, I'll follow up.
[10:50] <jbicha> Chipaca: http://people.canonical.com/~cjwatson/ubuntu-policy/policy.html/ch-archive.html#s-main
[10:51] <Chipaca> jbicha: darn
[10:51] <jbicha> so either demote to suggests or put in for a main inclusion request
[10:55] <Chipaca> probably do a MIR, if it's not too late
[10:57] <Chipaca> need to talk with wibblymat first, though
[11:03] <rodrigo_> pitti, can you upload what there is in lp:~ubuntu-desktop/vala/ubuntu, I seem to not have permissions and it's not in main, so not sure what to do to get permissions, adding it to a seed?
[11:16] <pitti> rodrigo_: sure
[11:17] <pitti> rodrigo_: it's already uploaded though: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+queue?queue_state=1
[11:17] <rodrigo_> pitti, yes, but it was rejected, wasn0't it?
[11:18] <rodrigo_> oh, maybe ken uploaded it
[11:23]  * ogra_ hugs whoever switched to a sane screensaver lock dialog
[12:02]  * rodrigo_ lunch
[12:15] <pitti> yay, got my new mobile phone
[12:15] <chrisccoulson> pitti - QUICK, install angry birds on it!
[12:16] <pitti> chrisccoulson: yeah, that didn't run on my G1
[12:17] <chrisccoulson> pitti - oh, perhaps they should have delivered your new phone after the beta release ;)
[12:18] <pitti> hehe
[12:20] <GunnarHj> rodrigo_: Hello, I just updated my g-c-c MP, so it's ready for you to merge and upload. https://code.launchpad.net/~gunnarhj/gnome-control-center/langfix/+merge/72792
[13:04] <Sweetshark> great, davis just rebooted _again_. Any reason for that machine to reboot twice a day? Microsoft patch day?
[13:06]  * Sweetshark would like to see _one uninterupted compile at least ....
[13:09] <BigWhale> oh great... gwibber is refusing to compile...
[13:50] <rodrigo_> GunnarHj, g-c-c 3.1.90 is ready in the ubuntu-desktop branch
[13:54] <GunnarHj> rodrigo_: I know, and I have updated the MP, so you can just merge and upload.
[13:54] <rodrigo_> GunnarHj, ok
[14:00] <ogra_> chrisccoulson, hey, why is my firefox not starting on arm ?
[14:01] <rodrigo_> GunnarHj, there's a memory leak, isn't it, in line 123 and beyond of the merge proposal
[14:01] <rodrigo_> GunnarHj, the commented g_free (name)
[14:07] <chrisccoulson> ogra_, i've no idea, i don't have access to any arm hardware ;)
[14:07] <chrisccoulson> i either need hardware or a crystal ball
[14:07] <ogra_> we really nbeed to change that
[14:07] <ogra_> yeah
[14:08] <GunnarHj> rodrigo_: Yes. The reason for it is that without it I wasn't able to make it work when testing. (Don't ask me why.) Possibly code changes afterwords make it possible to reinsert g_free (name) at that spot.
[14:08] <ogra_> chrisccoulson, the question was more a rethorical one anyway :)
[14:12] <GunnarHj> rodrigo_: Maybe you or me should test it again. Are you possibly about to do so?
[14:12] <rodrigo_> GunnarHj, testing it right now
[14:13] <rodrigo_> GunnarHj, but if you could update the mp to have the g_free call back, that would be cool
[14:14] <GunnarHj> rodrigo_: Did you successfully test with the g_free call back?
[14:14] <rodrigo_> GunnarHj, no
[14:14] <rodrigo_> GunnarHj, just as it was on the mp
[14:15] <GunnarHj> rodrigo_: I think that some of us should do that before adding it back. Do you want me to do it?
[14:15] <rodrigo_> GunnarHj, yes, please, and I'll test and debug
[14:16] <GunnarHj> rodrigo_: Ok. Will have to disconnect for a while then, because I have Oneiric on a separate partition... See you.
[14:17] <rodrigo_> GunnarHj, ok
[14:18] <chrisccoulson> g'ah, the dash and alt-tab switcher keep appearing behind all my windows :(
[14:19] <chrisccoulson> grr, this is impossible
[14:50] <rodrigo_> bug #834523
[14:50] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 834523 in gnome-control-center "Can't change the keyboard layout from a default install" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/834523
[14:54] <GunnarHj> rodrigo_: It proved to work now, so I changed the MP as you suggested. Probably my problem previously was due to some instability in v. 3.1.5, but that's history now.
[14:54] <rodrigo_> GunnarHj, ok
[14:56] <Sweetshark> pitti: no meeting reminder today?
[14:57] <pitti> Sweetshark: sure, I sent it this morning, didn't it arrive?
[14:57] <rodrigo_> GunnarHj, ok, merging now
[14:57] <GunnarHj> rodrigo_: Great, thanks!
[14:58] <ricotz> rodrigo_, hi, do you know if someone had a look at caribou yet?
[15:00] <rodrigo_> ricotz, not that In know
[15:00] <Sweetshark> pitti: hmm, there is one in my inbox. It must have sneaked by while I was still sleepy *cough* *cough*
[15:01] <ricotz> rodrigo_, i just hacked a package together to have something useable
[15:01] <ricotz> it is a dependency of gnome-shell now
[15:01] <GunnarHj> pitti: Hi Martin, I have added a comment to https://code.launchpad.net/~gunnarhj/ubuntu/oneiric/accountsservice/unset-lcmess/+merge/73219  Hopefully it will convince you. ;-)
[15:04] <rodrigo_> ricotz, oh, a hard dependency?
[15:04] <ricotz> rodrigo_, yes
[15:04] <rodrigo_> hmm
[15:05] <ricotz> rodrigo_, it seems they squeezed in what they can before the freeze
[15:05] <rodrigo_> :)
[15:25] <Sweetshark> hmmm, does anyone else see an invalid ftpmaster key on the de.archive... mirrors?
[15:25] <pitti> hm, I'm not using de.archive..
[15:26] <pitti> jasoncwarner, Sweetshark, bryceh, chrisccoulson, didrocks, tremolux, Riddell, kenvandine, cyphermox, mterry, rodrigo_, seb128, tkamppeter, pedro_: meeting reminder in 5 mins
[15:26] <rodrigo_> pitti, ok! :)
[15:26] <cyphermox> ok
[15:26]  * rickspencer3 loves to see pitti crack that whip
[15:26] <rickspencer3> :)
[15:26]  * rickspencer3 misses being in desktop team meetings
[15:27] <pitti> rickspencer3: heh, you are here and can follow :)
[15:27]  * Sweetshark reporting in.
[15:27]  * Sweetshark hands rickspencer3 a whip too.
[15:27] <rickspencer3> riiight
[15:28] <rickspencer3> what you need is another manager
[15:28] <rickspencer3> just, fyi, I perfer my status reports rendered in 3d, but don't spend a lot of time on them
[15:28] <rickspencer3> ^Dilber reference
[15:28] <pitti> heh
[15:29] <pitti> kenvandine: do you have a partner update for the wiki? or will do IRC?
[15:29]  * pedro_ waves
[15:30] <pitti> so, DING DING DING
[15:30] <didrocks> hey pedro_ :)
[15:30] <didrocks> o/
[15:30] <pitti> jasoncwarner, Sweetshark, bryceh, chrisccoulson, didrocks, tremolux, Riddell, kenvandine, cyphermox, mterry, rodrigo_, seb128, tkamppeter, pedro_: meeting o'clock
[15:30] <cyphermox> o/
[15:30] <Sweetshark> o/
[15:30] <pitti> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2011-08-30
[15:30] <rodrigo_> o/
[15:30] <tremolux> heyo
[15:31]  * kenvandine waves
[15:31] <pitti> everyone feeling ready for beta?
[15:31] <kenvandine> pitti, nothing to report
[15:31] <kenvandine> hopefully a couple bug fixes this week
[15:31] <mterry> hi
[15:31] <chrisccoulson> \o
[15:32] <pitti> kenvandine: ok, cool; are there any news wrt. the u1-installer?
[15:33] <pitti> kenvandine: should the u1 packages be on the DVD, or do we also just want the installer there?
[15:33] <kenvandine> just the installer
[15:33] <kenvandine> i updated the seeds already
[15:33] <tkamppeter> hi
[15:34] <kenvandine> oh... DVD not CD
[15:34] <pitti> rigth
[15:34] <kenvandine> i assume the same... they motivation seems to be consistency with other platforms
[15:34] <pitti> that's an argument I don't quite understand, but *shrug*
[15:34] <kenvandine> s/they/their/
[15:34] <kenvandine> yeah... oh well :/
[15:34] <pitti> ubuntu can certainly ship with stuff that windows doesn't
[15:34] <pitti> ok, anyway
[15:35] <kenvandine> i expressed that concern...
[15:35] <kenvandine> anyway
[15:35] <pitti> kenvandine: perhaps this should be mentioned in the beta-1 release notes? or do you think it's obvious and self-explanatory enough?
[15:36] <kenvandine> i think it is self-explanatory
[15:36] <kenvandine> it looks like users see the same icon
[15:36] <kenvandine> but clicking it lets them install
[15:36] <kenvandine> i should test that from a live image
[15:36] <pitti> *nod*, that would be great
[15:36] <kenvandine> will do
[15:36] <pitti> the current images should be quite stable, too
[15:36] <pitti> didrocks: thanks for the Unity wiki update
[15:36] <didrocks> you're welcome :)
[15:37] <BigWhale> kenvandine!
[15:37] <pitti> the release notes already talk about the new switcher, bug fixes, etc.; anything since a3 which is new and should be mentinoed?
[15:37] <didrocks> nothing else to add, just tracking the unity-2d issue with QConf crash
[15:37] <kenvandine> hey BigWhale, in a meeting now
[15:37] <didrocks> pitti: the new lens functionnality, I'll edit it as I did for alpha3
[15:37] <BigWhale> kenvandine, ok... let me know when you're free.
[15:38] <pitti> didrocks: oh, right; appreciated, thanks
[15:38] <didrocks> yw ;)
[15:38] <pitti> didrocks: indeed we should mention the music lens
[15:38] <didrocks> and the new filters
[15:38] <pitti> didrocks: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricOcelot/TechnicalOverview#Ubuntu_Desktop
[15:39] <didrocks> pitti: thanks for the link, opening the tab :)
[15:39] <pitti> so in general, we are quite hesitant to build new images now
[15:39] <pitti> as we need to get them ready by tomorrow
[15:39] <didrocks> oh?
[15:39] <pitti> for mirroring, etc.
[15:39] <pitti> and it's also quite a high cost to re-test everything
[15:40] <pitti> so if there is something which entirely breaks the live system or installation and is impractical to fix with a dist-upgrade, please speak up now
[15:40] <pitti> and we'll coordinate in #u-release
[15:40] <pitti> alternates will get a rebuild in about 5 hours
[15:41] <didrocks> seems that the unity-2d one is safe with the respawn, it should just get a pattern as you told
[15:41] <pitti> didrocks: right, want me to do that, or are you on it?
[15:41] <pitti> didrocks: I can do it if you toss me the bug #
[15:42] <didrocks> pitti: not sure how this is doable, I can learn, but you will be more effective than I (bug #834045 and bug #834001)
[15:42] <pitti> didrocks, tremolux: how's the oneconf integration coming along, any unexpected hurdles there which put it in jeopardy for b2?
[15:42] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 834045 in unity-2d "unity-2d-panel crashed with SIGSEGV in QConfSchema::findKey()" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/834045
[15:42] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 834001 in unity-2d "unity-2d-panel crashed with SIGSEGV in QConf::notify()" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/834001
[15:42] <pitti> didrocks: thanks, will do after meeting
[15:43] <didrocks> thanks :)
[15:43] <pitti> tremolux: did you see a bug reporting impact since we switched to GTK3 by defualt? how is that holding up?
[15:44] <tremolux> pitti: definitely we are getting a bunch of new reports, but it's quite manageable I think
[15:45] <pitti> tremolux: ah, good; I was a bit afraid of getting flooded by crashers, etc.
[15:45] <tremolux> we should be able to get things into good shape quickly, the team is working really hard on cleaning up the remaining issues
[15:45] <tremolux> yep, it seems not so bad
[15:45] <tremolux> I think the "technology preview" really helped there as well
[15:45] <tremolux> as we got a bunch of reports early thanks to that
[15:48] <pitti> didrocks, tremolux: did you see my q about oneconf?
[15:48] <pitti> that seems to be a bit desperate?
[15:48] <didrocks> I didn't see your question, just now?
[15:49] <tremolux> yes, I have not checked with didrocks on it, I hope it is not too bad?
[15:49] <pitti> pitti | didrocks, tremolux: how's the oneconf integration coming along, any unexpected hurdles there which put it in jeopardy for b2?
[15:49] <didrocks> tremolux: it is bad :/
[15:49] <tremolux> ug, sorry didrocks  :(
[15:49] <didrocks> tremolux: in addition, the design now mix the installed and the oneconf view
[15:50] <didrocks> I'm making intrusive change and don't really like that at the last minute :/
[15:50] <tremolux> didrocks: yeah
[15:50] <pedro_> pitti, didrocks both unity-2d bugs have a pattern now ;-)
[15:50] <didrocks> adding treeviews and hpaned for respecting the design
[15:50] <didrocks> pedro_: thanks :-)
[15:50] <pitti> pedro_: ah, thanks
[15:50] <pedro_> you're welcome!
[15:50] <didrocks> and I'm not really confident about the quality, there are part that would have been useful to check with mvo, but he's on vacation
[15:51] <didrocks> so, an unoptimized version is possible for end of week, I hope
[15:51] <didrocks> it will probably clutter a little bit the "installed" pane though
[15:52] <didrocks> (and we will loose the "install all/remove all" buttons)
[15:52] <tremolux> didrocks: ok, please be sure to tell me what I can do to help, I'm happy to test etc.
[15:53] <didrocks> the server is also blocking on isd to be in production
[15:53] <didrocks> so, I'm starting to freak out about the feature to be honest, but don't really want to postpone it once again :/
[15:53] <didrocks> (for once, everything was ready and working)
[15:54] <tremolux> yep, I know
[15:54] <didrocks> tremolux: yeah, will tell you, thanks :)
[15:56] <pitti> ok, AOB for today?
[15:56] <pitti> just a general plea, please check http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/u/LPUSERNAME.html for your remaining WIs
[15:56] <pitti> we have a lot of specs which just have one or two left and need these "last mile" wrapup
[15:57] <kenvandine> pitti, one of my 2 left is being reviewed now
[15:58] <didrocks> will recheck, but last time I check, I have none "unblocked" remaining for beta1
[16:00] <pitti> ok, seems we are done
[16:00] <pitti> thanks everyone!
[16:00] <kenvandine> thanks!
[16:00] <pedro_> thanks!
[16:01] <pitti> mterry: would be awesome if you could hand bug 837498 to someone soon; I just learned that it's a blocker for automatically building the Chinese images in the DC
[16:01] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 837498 in ubuntu-defaults-builder "[MIR] ubuntu-defaults-builder" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/837498
[16:01] <didrocks> thanks :)
[16:02] <mterry> pitti ok
[16:02] <mterry> pitti pings work best for urgent mirs
[16:02] <pitti> mterry: I did -- I just created the bug 2 mins ago :)
[16:02] <pitti> I feel a little sad for urging, though
[16:02] <mterry> :)
[16:05] <mterry> no its good. better than quietly suffering :)
[17:21] <didrocks> mterry_: FYI, I don't plan to have the time to review the MIR this week (and is the contact by default planned btw?) with the oneconf change
[17:21] <mterry_> didrocks, ok, will take it myself
[17:22] <mterry_> didrocks, but good question about whether we want it by default
[17:22] <didrocks> mterry_: it's some kind of a feature, so first ffe I would say?
[17:23] <mterry_> didrocks, yar
[17:39] <mterry_> pitti, do you know the story with gnome-contacts?  Is that something we want on the CD?
[17:56] <kirkland> unity question ... i have two firefox windows open, and a bunch of other windows;  when I hold down alt-tab, I only see a total of one firefox icon, instead of multiple;  that makes it hard for me to swap between the two differen firefox windows
[17:56] <kirkland> suggestions?  am I doing something wrong?
[18:00] <rickspencer3> kirkland, I think there is a different key command for swapping between windows of the same app
[18:00] <rickspencer3> I htink you use the ~
[18:01] <kirkland> rickspencer3: in combination with what?
[18:01] <rickspencer3> Alt I would assume
[18:01] <rickspencer3> I forget, sorry
[18:01] <kirkland> rickspencer3: hmm, that's not doing it for me....
[18:01] <rickspencer3> sorry, on my Natty netbook atm :/
[18:01] <rickspencer3> #ayatana cuold tell you for sures
[18:01] <kirkland> rickspencer3: is there a unity cheat sheat?
[18:01] <kirkland> rickspencer3: k, thanks
[18:05] <mterry> kirkland, you can use up/down arrows I think when alt-tabbing?
[18:06] <didrocks> kirkland: it's alt + ` on qwerty keyboard
[18:06] <didrocks> and right/left arrows keys works as well
[18:06] <mterry> kirkland, jcastro recently posted something about that
[18:06] <didrocks> there is also a ccsm option to show the instances after a short pause delay
[18:06] <didrocks> kirkland: note that if your two last windows were from the same app, alt + tab quickly tapped should just do the right thing
[18:06] <didrocks> rickspencer3: FYI ^
[18:07] <kirkland> mterry: hmm, alt-` looks like it, but I can't press it more than once
[18:07] <kirkland> didrocks: right, that's true, but I have more than 2 windows :-)
[18:07] <kirkland> ah
[18:07] <kirkland> alt-tab, then alt-`
[18:07] <kirkland> weir
[18:07] <kirkland> weird
[18:08] <didrocks> yeah
[18:08] <didrocks> note that there is a bug because dx assumed (like mutter one year ago) that ` was above tab for all keyboard layout
[18:09] <kirkland> i want to just hit alt-tab or alt-` or alt-anything over and over again until i get to the program i want
[18:09] <didrocks> and it's not the same in sane^W^W^W^Wazerty one :)
[18:10] <pitti> mterry: I don't think we want it at this point; did you try it? it doesn't really do much
[18:10] <pitti> you can see the contacts that you can also see in empathy
[18:10] <mterry> pitti, yay...
[18:20] <didrocks> ok, time to go off! Have a good night everyone :)
[18:26] <pitti> mterry: meh, I forgot a dependency in bug     837498
[18:26] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 837498 in ubuntu-defaults-builder "[MIR] ubuntu-defaults-builder" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/837498
[18:26] <pitti> :/
[18:26] <pitti> but syslinux-themes-ubuntu is trivial
[18:26] <pitti> mterry: thanks for the fast review of u-d-b!
[18:27] <mterry> pitti, k, looking
[18:43] <pitti> mterry: cheers
[19:48] <pitti> good night everyone
[19:49] <tremolux> 'night pitti
[20:05] <slangasek> has anyone seen a problem of late with a duplicate battery indicator showing up on the panel?
[20:09] <chrisccoulson> slangasek, i've not seen that before
[20:09]  * slangasek nods
[20:09] <slangasek> it's just appeared for me, with unity-2d, after the latest reboot
[20:09] <chrisccoulson> are they both identical? (ie, do they both show the same menu?)
[20:10] <slangasek> no, the spare leftmost one is insensitive
[20:11] <jbicha> slangasek: I've not seen it, but several on the forums have
[20:13] <slangasek> anyone know where I should file a bug about it?
[20:13] <slangasek> I can't even work out which indicator I could kill to make it disappear
[20:15] <jbicha> well, it's part of indicator-power but I don't really understand how indicators run and what to kill
[20:15] <chrisccoulson> you could try restarting unity-panel-service. that will restart the power indicator
[20:15] <chrisccoulson> i guess that's the same in unity-2d too
[20:32] <kenvandine> slangasek, i think that is because gnome-power-manager is running too... i seem to recall a bug about that
[20:33] <broder> slangasek: there was a g-p-m sru that just went through about that for natty
[20:33] <broder> oh, sorry - two indicators, never mind
[20:34] <bigon> kenvandine: around? could you please enable gir in libfolks?
[20:34] <bigon> this is required for the last gnome shell
[20:34] <kenvandine> bigon, i can take a look
[20:35] <kenvandine> bigon, oh.. already done
[20:35] <bigon> kenvandine: http://paste.ubuntu.com/678293/
[20:35] <kenvandine> today
[20:35] <bigon> ah :)
[20:35] <kenvandine> must be in the unapproved queue
[20:36] <kenvandine> bigon, yup, in 0.6.1-0ubuntu2
[20:36] <kenvandine> should see that after beta1 is released
[20:37] <tkamppeter> Anyone knows why the MIR for icc-profiles-free (bug 822587) is stuck on "Fix Committed"? icc-profiles-free is recommended by colord and colord is in Main.
[20:37] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 822587 in icc-profiles-free "[MIR] icc-profiles-free" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/822587
[20:37] <kenvandine> tkamppeter, sorry... nope
[20:38] <bigon> kenvandine: well the changes are not complete
[20:38] <stgraber> tkamppeter: Filename: pool/main/i/icc-profiles-free/icc-profiles-free_2.0+dfsg-0ubuntu1_all.deb
[20:38] <bigon> (I mean 0.6.1-0ubuntu2 is already in oneiric)
[20:39] <kenvandine> no
[20:39] <kenvandine> 0.6.0-0ubuntu2 is in oneiric
[20:39] <kenvandine> 0.6.1-0ubuntu2 is in unapproved waiting for the freeze
[20:40] <bigon> oh apt-get source gives me 0.6.1
[20:41] <bigon> euh
[20:41] <stgraber> tkamppeter: wget http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/20110830/oneiric-desktop-i386.manifest -O - -q | grep icc-profiles
[20:41] <tkamppeter> stgraber, so someone approved it but missed to close the bug?
[20:41] <stgraber> tkamppeter: icc-profiles-free2.0+dfsg-0ubuntu1
[20:41] <bigon> nm, I guess I should go to sleep
[20:41] <kenvandine> lp:~ubuntu-desktop/folks/ubuntu
[20:41] <kenvandine> is the latest
[20:41] <stgraber> tkamppeter: I guess so. It's in main and on the current desktop CD builds
[20:41] <stgraber> tkamppeter: so I guess you can just mark that bug fix released
[20:43] <tkamppeter> Then LP has a problem: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/icc-profiles-free shows it as in Universe.
[20:44] <tkamppeter> stgraber, and why there is no underscore between "icc-profiles-free" and "2.0+dfsg-0ubuntu1"?
[20:45] <stgraber> tkamppeter: oh, that was just my copy/paste from wget being broken (probably because there's a tab between the package and version number)
[20:46] <stgraber> tkamppeter: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/icc-profiles-free/2.0+dfsg-0ubuntu1/+build/2680150 is correctly marked as being in main, so it's just the source that's still stuck in universe
[20:47] <micahg> tkamppeter: rmadison is your friend :)
[20:47] <stgraber> which is a bit odd as there's no reason for that to be (it doesn't produce any other binary packages)
[20:47] <micahg> stgraber: source also in main, I think someone forgot to close a bug :)
[20:47] <stgraber> micahg: it's not, at least not according to LP
[20:48] <stgraber> micahg: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/icc-profiles-free still says Component: universe
[20:48] <micahg> stgraber: probably from when it was uploaded
[20:49] <micahg> stgraber: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/icc-profiles-free/2.0+dfsg-0ubuntu1 shows it correctly published in main
[20:49] <stgraber> ok, just LP UI not being consistent then, fine :)
[20:50] <micahg> stgraber: could be a bug, but would be one in LP then
[20:51] <stgraber> micahg: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/icc-profiles-free/2.0+dfsg-0ubuntu1 is pretty interesting actually as the left side of the page says it's in universe and the right side says it's in main :)
[20:52] <micahg> stgraber: makes sense, it was uploaded to universe and is now published in main
[20:52] <stgraber> hmm, indeed
[20:59] <tkamppeter> stgraber, micahg, thanks. I have closed the bug manually now.
[21:17] <slangasek> kenvandine, broder: I have no g-p-m running here
[23:09] <bryce__> meeting time?
[23:09] <jasoncwarner_> bryce__: TheMuso robert_ancell RAOF
[23:09] <jasoncwarner_> yes, meeting time!
[23:09] <TheMuso> Yo
[23:09] <RAOF> Ya
[23:09] <jasoncwarner_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2011-08-30
[23:09] <bryce__> heya
[23:10] <jasoncwarner_> bryce__: (with the double underscore) and RAOF , want to update us on X?
[23:10] <bryce__> sure
[23:11] <bryce__> got xdiagnose 1.1 uploaded last week; going to do a 1.2 with some failsafe-x fixes
[23:12] <bryce__> slight uptick in X bugs, but nothing widespread and severe
[23:12] <bryce__> we're seeing quite a few of the False GPU Lockup bugs
[23:13] <bryce__> those will not be an issue once apport is turned off, however it would be nice to figure out why they're happening at all.
[23:13] <bryce__>
[23:13] <bryce__> couple things we need to do looking forward the next few weeks
[23:13] <RAOF> I've noticed we've been getting a number of Natty bugs where people have installed multi-arched nvidia drivers and then mesa updates blow up for them.
[23:14] <bryce__> yeah
[23:14] <bryce__> we have a bug open about needing to make nvidia multi-arch aware, but I bumped it to P
[23:15] <bryce__> I assume it'd not be a simple (low risk) fix?
[23:15] <RAOF> The proprietary drivers are already multi-arch aware; we've done that transition.
[23:16] <RAOF> What we *haven't* done is split the nvidia drivers into amd64 and i386 pieces, but we probably don't want to do that anyway.
[23:16] <bryce__> RAOF, hmm, then perhaps the nvidia tasks just need closed?
[23:16] <RAOF> bryce__: Quite possibly.  Which is the bug you're thinking of?
[23:16] <bryce__> let me find it
[23:17] <bryce__> 807209
[23:18] <bryce__> RAOF, anyway, maybe take a look and update it with required tasks we need to do, or close it out if there's none?
[23:18] <RAOF> Yeah, I'll do that.
[23:18] <bryce__> couple other things
[23:18] <bryce__> at UDS we talked about sticking 1.11 in a ppa prior to p-series opening
[23:18] <RAOF> Yep.
[23:18] <bryce__> xserver 1.11 was officially released a few days ago, and looks like it's in debian experimental, so just needs merge work
[23:18] <bryce__> "just" :-)
[23:19] <RAOF> I think that Sarvatt has done some looking at that?
[23:19] <bryce__> yeah Sarvatt said he'd be looking at it for xorg-edgers
[23:19] <RAOF> Yeah.  The big "just" is our multitouch XI 2.1 patches.
[23:20] <bryce__> yeah, I was thinking we can omit those for now, get it into the ppa so we can start testing, and give chase & co time to update those patches
[23:20] <RAOF> Which reminds me: in *awesome* news, it looks pretty likely that the multitouch protocol will land in XI 2.2 in Xserver 1.12!  Soon I'll be able to stop worrying about shipping an X protocol that's not upstream in an LTS :)
[23:21]  * bryce__ holds off counting chickens
[23:21] <bryce__> a second thing we'd talked about at UDS was updating the display drivers via x-updates into jockey post-release
[23:21] <RAOF> Spoil sport :)
[23:21] <jasoncwarner_> RAOF: really? when would we know that for sure? good if it happens! :)
[23:22] <bryce__> so just curious on the status of that... probably a pitti question though
[23:24] <RAOF> Yeah.
[23:24] <jasoncwarner_> ok...anything else RAOF or bryce__ ?
[23:24] <jasoncwarner_> if not, we can get to TheMuso and a11y?
[23:25] <bryce__> RAOF, oh also curious if you ever got a chance to look at that projector detection (0x0 size) detection lib?
[23:25] <RAOF> bryce__: Not really.
[23:25] <TheMuso> Ok.
[23:26] <RAOF> bryce__: I should dedicate some non-preemptible time to kicking that off.
[23:26] <TheMuso> Not a lot has happened since last week's meeting, partly because I was on holiday last week, and aprtly because we are in beta freeze.
[23:26] <TheMuso> Going to do a proper test of my ubiquity a11y work today with an official image. I actually wanted to on Monday, but the daily image didn't boot into ubiquity for some reason. Hopefully with the few ubiquity uploads since then, things have changed.
[23:27] <bryce__> RAOF, yeah, working on X there's so many bugs it can be hard to scratch out time for development work
[23:27] <TheMuso> Been fixing a few packaging bugs that made their way into the at-spi stack, so now at least, upgrading from natty works in terms of a11y packages, although it appears a compix package is still holding up a successful upgrade...
[23:28] <TheMuso> Sent a crasher upstream that users were getting with at-spi, and t has been fixed in the latest upstrea release of the at-spi stack, which will go in right after beta 1.
[23:29] <TheMuso> Not much movement on the unity-2d bugs front, the few bugs that I filed recently, whilst having been confirmed and triaged, haven't seen fixes uploaded yet... Hopefully a new unity-2d release in the coming week will address them...
[23:29] <broder> RAOF: FYI, you do look into a projector detection thing, make sure you're looking at a valid EDID. I've seen cases where a poorly seated connection -> EDID of all 0's, and if you jump straight to the physical size offset, you could get confused. Might be worth having a tri-state return value or something
[23:29] <TheMuso> I also spent some time with robert_ancell yesterday working out some accessibility details for lightdm.
[23:30] <jasoncwarner_> TheMuso: oh, cool...anything we can expect for oneiric?
[23:30] <RAOF> broder: Right.  My thinking was that it'd actually return a tuple (OUTPUT_TYPE, CONFIDENCE)
[23:30] <broder> RAOF: +1 from me
[23:31] <TheMuso> jasoncwarner_: Well it will be possible to have a screen reader running in lightdm for a start, and the user list and entering username/password is now accessible. There are still a few minor bugs that need sorting out, but are likely at-spi stack or orca related, so need to try again once I have updated orca to the latest upstream release.
[23:31] <jasoncwarner_> ok
[23:31] <jasoncwarner_> thanks
[23:31] <jasoncwarner_> TheMuso: anything else?
[23:32] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: Oh one thing I noticed yesterday but forgot to mention, was the fact that you aren not making use of the accessible description given for indicator entries.
[23:32] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, what should the description contain?
[23:32] <TheMuso> jasoncwarner_: A few more pulse bugfixes will be going in fater beta, coming from upstream.
[23:33] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: The description is set by the indicators themselves to give a textual description of what they are for. So for example, the sound indicator gives a volume in percentage, the messages indicator lets a user know if there are new messages waiting, etc.
[23:33] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, oh sorry, for the indicators - do I need to connect those or should it happen automatically?
[23:34] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: YOu need to connect those. You want to assign the string IndicatorEntry->accessible_desc to the atk object representing the the GTK widget for the indicator object.
[23:35] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: I remember finding the code for it yesterday. I'll cook up a patch if thats of any help.
[23:35] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, please do
[23:35] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: ok will do that today.
[23:36] <jasoncwarner_> TheMuso and robert_ancell should we roll into lightdm/unity_greeter?
[23:36] <jasoncwarner_> robert_ancell: what would you like to update?
[23:37] <robert_ancell> So TheMuso stole my announcement :)  We have a11y support in unity-greeter.  It will need a ffe, but I don't expect it to be uncontrovercial
[23:37] <robert_ancell> Other than that just working through the remaining bugs to get lightdm+unity-greeter in as good shape as possible for oneiric
[23:38] <robert_ancell> I don't expect it to be controvercial
[23:38] <robert_ancell> rather
[23:38] <jasoncwarner_> :)
[23:38] <jasoncwarner_> ok...veyr cool...
[23:39] <jasoncwarner_> robert_ancell: everything settled on unity-greeter design?
[23:39] <jasoncwarner_> (ie. nothing being pushed too hard to be included at this late date? )
[23:40] <robert_ancell> jasoncwarner_, (just checking email).  Not that I know of.  There might be some minor things like strings, but they will have to follow freeze exception processes
[23:41] <jasoncwarner_> robert_ancell: alright.
[23:41] <jasoncwarner_> thanks
[23:41] <jasoncwarner_> anything else for anyone ?
[23:42] <jasoncwarner_> ok...[END MEETING]
[23:42] <jasoncwarner_> thanks everyone
[23:42] <bryce__> thanks
[23:42] <RAOF> Just that unity is now getting awesome.
[23:42] <TheMuso> Thanks.


[08:07] <s9iper1> any body knows how can we disable the guest account ???
[13:18] <teward> hggdh: around?
[13:20] <LordOfTime> irssi, stop redoing my nick!  :/
[13:21] <hggdh> I am around in 20 minutes
[13:22] <LordOfTime> i'll poke you then :P
[13:39] <hggdh> LordOfTime: ready
[13:48] <LordOfTime> hggdh: sorry, got sidetracked, one moment
[13:50] <LordOfTime> sorry, got innundated with phone calls
[13:50] <LordOfTime> being ITSec is hard sometimes :P
[13:50] <hggdh> heh
[13:50] <LordOfTime> hggdh: was looking over bugsquad join applications, was going to support someone on that list joining given their bugs work.  lemme find that applicant again
[13:50]  * LordOfTime has 25 IExplore windows open
[13:51] <hggdh> LordOfTime: bugsquad, or bugcontrol?
[13:51] <LordOfTime> bugsquad
[13:51] <LordOfTime> not bugcontrol
[13:51] <LordOfTime> i leave the vets of bugcontrol for those
[13:51] <hggdh> LordOfTime: all that is needed for joinging bugsquad is...
[13:52] <LordOfTime> hggdh: indeed, but it appears there's some since may and nobody's checked hence the poke :p
[13:52] <LordOfTime> if it were bugcontrol it'd be via the mailing list and i dont comment on those...
[13:52] <LordOfTime> DAMN IT STOP RINGING!  *yells at his phone*
[13:52] <hggdh> oh, I know what happened -- there are a few admins for bugsquad, and we get the join request in a round-robin way
[13:53] <hggdh> I will look at the pending requests
[13:53] <LordOfTime> 4 dont seem to have done significant bug work
[13:53] <LordOfTime> one has
[13:53]  * LordOfTime was looking at all teams he's with to find a serial joiner who has had no other LP activities, and was checking bugsquad just to be safe
[13:56] <LordOfTime> hggdh: there's no harm in me pointing members of the security team to bugs which ask whether a bug is actually a security bug or not, right?
[13:56] <LordOfTime> i mean, they'd truly know :P
[13:56] <hggdh> LordOfTime: no, not at all. You can also poke them at #ubuntu-hardened
[13:56] <LordOfTime> indeed
[13:56] <LordOfTime>  i sit there daily :p
[13:57]  * LordOfTime works on nginx security bugs, so keeps checking often
[13:57] <hggdh> LordOfTime: all pending join requests to bugsquad have been processed
[13:57] <LordOfTime> hggdh: i think a few weren't following the rules though
[13:57] <LordOfTime> some ahvent signed the CoC
[13:57] <hggdh> and I apologise for not checking there...
[13:58] <hggdh> LordOfTime: the rules are quite simple, and easy... if one does not follow them, one will be rejected
[13:58] <LordOfTime> i see :)
[13:58] <hggdh> and what happens is an email is sent to the rejected candidate explaining why
[13:58] <LordOfTime> i know the rules for bugcontrol are much more stringent.  they could be a bit more stringent for bugcontrol-via-other-projects-interactions
[13:59] <hggdh> interestingly, most of those rejected never apply again
[13:59] <hggdh> well, sort of. If you are an upstream to one of our packages, we have a real interest in having you here and helpin
[14:02]  * hggdh is rebooting, trying to find out if libvirt/qemu will work again
[18:10] <om26er_> could anyone try a nautilus crash please?
[18:10] <om26er_> press super+d while desktop is in focus
[18:10] <om26er_> *in Quantal
[18:19] <om26er_> okay then, its bug 1028028
[18:19] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1028028 in nautilus "nautilus crashed with SIGABRT in raise()" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1028028
[18:20] <om26er> that was bug 1028028
[18:20] <om26er> no bottu :/
[18:20] <om26er> *ubottu
[18:43] <njin> omer26er: hallo, I cannot reproduce
[18:44] <njin> om26er:^^
[18:46] <LordOfTime> om26er: "Fix Committed" is the correct status, upstream's waiting for the package to be updated in Quantal
[18:46] <LordOfTime> once that happens, it becomes Fix Released
[18:47] <LordOfTime> if the bug still exists after that, well...
[18:55] <micahg> LordOfTime: well, that's the way the Desktop team uses that status, it's not listed that way on the wiki
[18:56] <LordOfTime> micahg: indeed.
[18:57] <LordOfTime> micahg: when you hang out around the Desktop guys, you learn that's how they interpret that.
[18:57]  * LordOfTime sometimes forgets what the wiki specifically says
[18:57] <LordOfTime> *yawn*
[18:57] <LordOfTime> i shouldnt even be looking at bugs, but alas, slow days at work *shrugs*
[18:58]  * LordOfTime notices he missed an important email chain, and shifts his attention
[19:04] <om26er> LordOfTime, yeah, thats fixed in -proposed
[19:05] <om26er> njin, you might be using -proposed repo?
[19:05] <om26er> njin, its fixed there
[19:23] <njin> om26er, yes i use -proposed
[20:03] <trism> The reporter for bug 1021783 would like an SRU of the fix from quantal to precise. I attached a debdiff and updated the description, but the bug is already marked fixed, so I'm not sure if anyone will see it (so I thought I'd ask here if someone could take a look), thanks
[20:03] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1021783 in python3.2 "invalid behavior of curses.newpad().refresh() " [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1021783
[20:09] <micahg> trism: looking
[20:10] <micahg> trism: task granted, go ahead and subscribe ubuntu-sponsors if the rest of the paperwork is there
[20:16] <trism> micahg: thanks
[21:36] <ldz420> When using apport to make a bug report should I use the apport on the application before or after the bug happens?
[21:43] <ldz420> because I am wondering if the erroneous data show up after the error has occured
[21:45] <ldz420> Or does apport simply show all of the application that are involved so the information show doesn't change before or after the bug occurs