[01:33] <Dingo_aus> G'day all - trying to install Maverick on a SD card for BeagleBoard and the instructions on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/OMAPMaverickInstall result in me getting a "bash /dev/sdc permision denied" error
[01:33] <Dingo_aus> anyone know how to fix this?
[01:34] <Dingo_aus> My relevant terminal session is:
[01:34] <Dingo_aus> sudo sh -c './ubuntu-netbook-10.10-preinstalled-netbook-armel+omap.img.gz' > /dev/sdc
[01:34] <Dingo_aus> bash: /dev/sdc: Permission denied
[01:34] <persia> You get the error at trying to write the SD card?
[01:34] <Dingo_aus> yes
[01:34] <persia> Oh, right.  the redirect needs to be inside the quotation marks.
[01:34] <Dingo_aus> oh...
[01:34] <persia> Because you need the elevated permissions for > not for zcat.
[01:35] <Dingo_aus> Thanks - yeah I usually use DD or other commands, not really familiar with this one - cheers
[01:35] <persia> zcat ./ubuntu-netbook-10.10-preinstalled-netbook-armel+omap.img.gz | sudo tee /dev/sdc > /dev/null` might do almost the same thing, but I'm not sure I trust tee that much.
[01:36] <persia> Oh, for dd, just unzip the image, and then `sudo dd if=${img} of=${SD} bs=1M` or something
[01:36] <Dingo_aus> Thanks so much - my SD card is be written to as we type
[06:17] <daurnimator> anyone here got a beagleboard xm?
[08:49] <persia> daurnimator, There's a few folk who reported they had them, and the omap3 images were reported to work on them.  It may be that you'll get a better response to a specific question.
[15:59] <dhiry2k> hi all while running apt-get install in chroot environment getting message as Unsupported ioctl: cmd=0xc020660b
[16:00] <ogra_ac> yes, you can ignore that
[16:00] <dhiry2k> ogra, but why this comes?
[16:01] <dhiry2k> any issue in my chroot environment?
[16:01] <ogra_ac> because qemu-static hasnt implemented this ioctl
[16:01] <ogra_ac> no
[16:01] <ogra_ac> every binary you run in your chroot is wrapped in qemu
[16:01] <ogra_ac> its a qemu issue
[16:01] <dhiry2k> ogra, oho then i can add bug for qemu
[16:02] <ogra_ac> check before ... i think there might be one already
[16:02] <dhiry2k> ogra_ac, compiling and creating .deb for armel in chroot is feeling quite slower process
[16:02] <dhiry2k> ogra_ac, is there any way to do cross compile for arm in x86
[16:02] <ogra_ac> its faster than in a VM but yes, still slow
[16:03] <ogra_ac> dhiry2k, yes if you run maverick (10.10) hrw|gone can give you info
[16:03] <dhiry2k> ogra_ac, what is normally preferred way to creating deb for armel
[16:03] <ogra_ac> (he maintains the cross tools)
[16:03] <ogra_ac> native compilation is the preferred way
[16:04] <dhiry2k> ogra_ac, native means compiling in armel os itself
[16:04] <dhiry2k> ?
[16:04] <ogra_ac> yes
[16:04] <ogra_ac> thats how we build the whole distro
[16:05] <dhiry2k> ogra_ac, i have created filesystem using rootstock for 10.10
[16:05] <dhiry2k> but each time rootstock takes packages from repo
[16:06] <dhiry2k> i need to divert rootstock  to local directory where i kept almost all packages
[16:06] <dhiry2k> and remaining it should take from repository
[16:07] <dhiry2k> can it possible?
[16:08] <rcn-ee> can't you copy and install them after you've created the image?
[16:09] <dhiry2k> rcn-ee, first i created image with gnome not want to try with xfce then main basic packages already i have need not necessary to redownload
[16:09] <dhiry2k> just downoad xfce4
[16:09] <dhiry2k> i want to create different images of different display manager
[16:09] <dhiry2k> but base packages for all are same
[16:09] <rcn-ee> use a cache: like apt-cacher-ng ?
[16:10] <dhiry2k> rcn-ee, can you elaborate it ..how to use this for rootstock
[16:10] <ogra_ac> approx ftw
[16:11] <rcn-ee> dhiry2k, with ubuntu/debian there's lots of *.deb cache/proxy tools to save bandwidth, the one i use is "apt-cacher-ng"
[16:12] <rcn-ee> with rootstock i point to it with: "--mirror http://<IP_ADDRESS>:3142/ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports"
[16:12] <rcn-ee> just remember, your final image will have "<IP_ADDRESS>" in the /etc/apt/source.list so if you give it to someone else, remembet to edit that..
[16:14] <dhiry2k> but i am feeling if i give gdm or xfce,lxde either of this then rootstock takes many packages which i dont need
[16:14] <dhiry2k> so always needed to to remove packages manually
[16:14] <dhiry2k> after creating filesystem
[16:14] <rcn-ee> last i tried lxde it brought in a lot of extra stuff, 'xfce' by itself is still pretty minimal...
[16:14] <ogra_ac> just use ubuntu-minimal then
[16:15] <ogra_ac> save that ... and then add on top of a copy
[16:15] <dhiry2k> ogra_ac, ubuntu_minimal has any desktop environment or need to add manually
[16:15] <rcn-ee> for xfce, i use this to get a prety minimal desktop: "--seed xfce4,gdm,xubuntu-gdm-theme,xubuntu-artwork,xserver-xorg-video-omap3"
[16:15] <ogra_ac> minimal is minimal console system
[16:16] <dhiry2k> rcn-ee, lxde looks good diaplay manager
[16:17] <dhiry2k> but i have seen my board gets heated after some time of running display manager
[16:17] <rcn-ee> yeah i used it by default with jaunty on my beagle..
[16:17] <rcn-ee> heated: wait till the pm changes in 2.6.37...
[16:17] <dhiry2k> rcn-ee, have faced issue of heating
[16:18] <dhiry2k> have you  faced issue of heating
[16:18] <rcn-ee> yes... even in mainline, only the cpu idle bits are their, the core other wise runs at what ever clock speed you give it..
[16:19] <rcn-ee> looking at what's going in 2.6.37 it'll get a lot better...
[16:19] <dhiry2k> how to improve performance on beagle for display manager and running different application at same time
[16:20] <ogra_ac> upgrade the HW to a pandaboard ;)
[16:20] <dhiry2k> ogra_ac, you mean pandaboard has more ram and better CPU?
[16:20] <rcn-ee> just on the beagle? make sure your running it as fast as it can.. bx/cx = 600, c4 = 720, xm (800, 1Ghz with 2.6.37).. lots of swap.. really fast usb-harddrives as rootfs..
[16:21] <ogra_ac> dual core 1GHz and 1GB ram, yes
[16:22] <dhiry2k> rcn-ee, i not created swap
[16:22] <dhiry2k> how to swap ?
[16:22] <rcn-ee> that'll kill the desktop experience..
[16:22] <dhiry2k> how to add swap
[16:23] <rcn-ee> since you've allready partition, used the swap file option: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SwapFaq
[16:23] <ogra_ac> yeah, you should use swap files in any case
[16:24] <ogra_ac> dont use swap partitions on SD
[16:24] <rcn-ee> but sometimes you just have to. ;)
[16:42] <dhiry2k> ogra_ac, rcn-ee thanks it worked
[21:01] <Neko> ogra, oem-config still doesn't work because gdm starts instead as usual
[21:02] <Neko> the permissions are fine now I fixed rootstock but gdm is still in the way
[21:02] <ogra_ac> well, doesnt happen for anyone else
[21:02] <ogra_ac> must ne necause you touch the rootfs
[21:02] <Neko> could it be 100% down to lack of initramfs?
[21:02] <ogra_ac> no
[21:02] <Neko> 10%?
[21:02] <ogra_ac> heh
[21:02] <ogra_ac> no
[21:03] <Neko> okay so ruling that out what on earth makes it so that gdm starts and then ubiquity-dm just complains and complains in the background that it cannot start X?
[21:03] <ogra_ac> likely still permissions for dbus
[21:03] <Neko> but they're fine
[21:04] <Neko> that gdm starts at all means the tar fix in rootstock worked
[21:04] <Neko> (otherwise /var/lib/gdm is owned by hplip on  my system :)
[21:05] <Neko> could it be that rootstock simply fails to set up dbus properly when doing the chroot and this is the problem not so much the correct permissions but lack of actually setting permissions
[21:07] <ogra_ac> might be
[21:07] <ogra_ac> no idea, really, i just know it works for others that dont touch the filesystem
[21:08] <Neko> rootstock-201010121152.log:WARNING:root:Failed to setup dbus (ignoring)
[21:08] <Neko> for instance :)
[21:08] <Neko> we don't touch it either
[21:08] <Neko> I extracted a rootstock directly to an SD card
[21:08] <Neko> I even tried leaving the image there, mounting it, and rsyncing to sd card
[21:09] <ogra_ac> Failed to setup dbus is expected in a chroot
[21:09] <ogra_ac> thats what its supposed to do
[21:09] <Neko> qemu should fix it?
[21:09] <Neko> or firstboot?
[21:09] <ogra_ac> dbus sets up itself on first start, right
[21:09] <ogra_ac> see its init script
[21:15] <Neko> so frustrating
[21:15] <Neko> anyway I really popped in here to ask since I noticed.. linux-headers-linaro-imx51??
[21:17] <ogra_ac> wrong channel ;)
[21:17]  * ogra_ac points to #linaro
[21:17] <Neko> yeah I guessed as much :D
[21:18] <ogra_ac> its plain upstream afaik
[21:40] <zumbi_> i am trying to run unity, but I get a message on required driver missing.. any ideas?
[21:41] <ogra_ac> get a driver ?
[21:41] <zumbi_> ogra_ac: what driver?
[21:41] <zumbi_> unity-driver?
[21:41] <ogra_ac> one that supports 3D
[21:41] <ogra_ac> unity makes heavy use of GL
[21:42] <zumbi_> uhm.. that might be tricky as i am on a imx51 netbook
[21:42] <zumbi_> not sure if that is supported
[21:42] <ogra_ac> ask Neko :)
[21:43] <ogra_ac> but its unlikely that even if you have a driver it will work
[21:43] <ogra_ac> on ARM GL usually means GLES
[21:43] <ogra_ac> which is only a subset of GL and parts of unity are still not supporting it fully
[21:43] <zumbi_> I believe GLES is supported by omaps
[21:44] <zumbi_> oh! so, unity not for ARM?
[21:45] <zumbi_> linrao might need to fiix that :)
[21:45] <ogra_ac> not yet
[21:45] <ogra_ac> there is work going on for it
[21:45] <ogra_ac> in linaro
[21:45] <ogra_ac> and the canonical DX team
[21:45] <ogra_ac> and in TI
[21:45] <ogra_ac> but its not there yet
[21:45] <zumbi_> not FSL?
[21:45] <ogra_ac> i saw unity running for a few mins on a pandaboard
[21:46] <ogra_ac> but it still locks up often
[21:46] <ogra_ac> zumbi_, no idea ubuntu-arm doesnt do anything with FSL anymore
[21:46] <ogra_ac> they dropped out
[21:46] <zumbi_> uhm.. bad for them
[21:46] <Neko> we will be supporting it soooooon
[21:47] <ogra_ac> Neko, lol
[21:47] <zumbi_> Neko: what will we be supporting soon?
[21:47] <Neko> there are some things we want to fix first and building other packages takes precedence
[21:47] <ogra_ac> so you plan to rewirite clutter alone ?
[21:47] <Neko> we did ship GL libs one time but.. they are buggy :D
[21:47] <ogra_ac> ah, GL
[21:47] <Neko> not clutter, just shipping GLES
[21:47] <ogra_ac> i thought unity
[21:48] <zumbi_> ogra_ac: out of curiosity, is unity related to Erlang programming language?
[21:48] <ogra_ac> might be
[21:48] <zumbi_> i saw some erlang dependencies, but i was not sure if it is related
[21:49] <ogra_ac> i think something is using erlang in the default install nowadays, might be ubuntu-one though
[21:49] <Neko> I thought ubuntu-one used python
[21:49] <zumbi_> Erlang is quite impressive


[00:00] <TheMuso> Right, not sure if that can do 5gHz or not.
[00:01] <TheMuso> IMO wireless N at 2.4gHz combined with G is just asking for trouble...
[00:01] <TheMuso> IME N has only been useful at 5gHz.
[00:01] <TheMuso> It doesn't help that 2.4gHz is practically congested in my local area.
[00:09] <bkerensa> TheMuso: so... the card supports 5Ghz on Wind0ze
[00:11] <TheMuso> bkerensa: Interesting, sorry I can't be of any more help... I guess its time to trawl the git log for the kernel driver to see if its been implemented for Linux, or it could be userspace... Dunno.
[00:11] <bkerensa> :D
[00:11] <TheMuso> Have you tried running iwlist $ethname scan in the terminal to see if it shows any 5gHz APs that way?
[00:16] <bkerensa> TheMuso: yeah it only shows 2.46ghz aps
[00:17] <TheMuso> Ok.
[01:12] <cyphermox> bkerensa: you're not limited to g
[01:12] <cyphermox> n works where hardware and drivers support it
[01:13] <cyphermox> thinkpads are magic in the way that sometimes the driver doesn't quite want to play nice with n, but it's available
[01:14] <cyphermox> I had never heard of 802.11c yet, it's not surprising if it doesn't work yet, if it's a draft spec
[01:15] <cyphermox> ah, and confusing because there is c and ac, and they're not quite the same
[01:21] <cyphermox> bkerensa: I went to look up VHT (802.11ac) in hostap, and it looks like there are a few commits, but they all postdate the 1.0 release. so we'll get a first 802.11ac support in R
[01:21] <cyphermox> bkerensa: cf. http://w1.fi/gitweb/gitweb.cgi?p=hostap.git&a=search&h=HEAD&st=commit&s=VHT
[01:22] <cyphermox> VHT probably won't work unless you have specific hardware that mentions it supports it, though
[01:33] <cyphermox> bkerensa: and looking quickly, we don't have any of the VHT bits in the kernel right now (that and judging from the emails I get in linux-wireless, there is no driver using it yet)
[01:33]  * cyphermox logs off for the night
[04:59] <didrocks> good morning
[05:51] <pitti> Good morning
[05:52] <pitti> chrisccoulson, mlankhorst: I really didn't want Jason to arrive with T-shirts and shorts only :_
[05:52] <pitti> :) even
[05:54] <RAOF> pitti: But that would have been *super funny*, in a terrible sort of way :)
[05:54] <pitti> yeah -- don't let him build up false expectancies for too long
[05:55] <pitti> jasoncwarner_: but don't worry, Copenhagen is said to be a beautiful city
[06:03] <didrocks> guten morgen pitti :)
[06:04] <bkerensa> cyphermox: on that BT bug I have isolated it to not being my hardware but it seems to be related to the BT profile of the device or the device itself not being supported
[06:05] <bkerensa> cyphermox: I tried two other Jabra BT products and they work fine
[06:05] <pitti> hey didrocks, ça va?
[06:05] <didrocks> pitti: ça va bien, et toi?
[06:06] <pitti> je vais bien, merci!
[06:10] <desrt> crazy europeans awake at strange hours....
[06:11] <didrocks> desrt: you mean early hours instead of very late ones? :)
[06:11] <desrt> well
[06:11] <desrt> it's even later there than it is here!
[06:11] <didrocks> what time is it for you? :)
[06:11] <desrt> 2h11
[06:11] <didrocks> ah not that bad, was thinking worse TBH :)
[06:12]  * desrt putting the finishing touches on the hud-awareness protocol in the hud itself
[06:12] <didrocks> (so yeah, later in some way, but with a night of sleep between :))
[06:16] <pitti> I'm actually really late this morning
[06:16] <pitti> my wife is away for a few days, so I'm back to my usual "midnight to 7:30" sleep cycle :)
[06:17]  * desrt is physically exhausted but completely mentally awake
[06:18] <mlankhorst> pitti: to be honest I did want that, and then never let him live it down
[06:18] <mlankhorst> :P
[06:19] <pitti> *tsk*, tu es mauvais! :-)
[06:20] <mlankhorst> naw
[06:20] <jibel> Good morning
[06:20] <didrocks> salut jibel, ça va?
[06:20] <jibel> Salut didrocks , ça va et toi ?
[06:20] <didrocks> ça va bien :)
[06:28] <desrt> didrocks: hey... can you do a desktop team ppa upload of indicator-appmenu with a patch?
[06:29] <didrocks> desrt: sure, bring it on! :)
[06:29] <desrt> https://code.launchpad.net/~desrt/indicator-appmenu/hud-awareness/+merge/127937
[06:31] <desrt> not sure it will have much effect...
[06:31] <desrt> but if we make it very very easy for the guys working on libreoffice to implement it, they just might :)
[06:32] <didrocks> desrt: heh :) at least, it's building fine here and tests pass. Uploaded 12.10.2-0ubuntu2~desrt1 to the desktop ppa :)
[06:32] <desrt> fast...
[06:33] <didrocks> :)
[06:34] <desrt> LP can't keep up with you unfortunately
[06:34]  * desrt mashes ^R until he sees it
[06:34] <didrocks> heh :)
[06:34] <didrocks> yeah, it can takes up to 5 minutes
[06:35] <desrt> i guess dput is just an ftp upload
[06:35] <desrt> and LP has to manually check the dir from time to time....
[06:36] <didrocks> yeah, it's just a cron checking a dir I guess (you're right about dput btw)
[06:37] <desrt> it's there now
[06:37] <desrt> thanks :)
[06:37] <sarnold> (not migrated to incron?)
[06:37]  * desrt ponders sleep...
[06:38] <didrocks> desrt: yw! yeah, you should sleep :)
[06:38] <desrt> meh
[06:38] <desrt> ya.  probably
[06:39] <desrt> good night :)
[06:40] <didrocks> good night!
[07:05] <chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
[07:11] <didrocks> hey chrisccoulson! good morning to you!
[07:18] <tkamppeter> pitti, hi
[07:19] <pitti> hello tkamppeter
[07:21] <tkamppeter> pitti, I have seen your mail about CUPS. How will we proceed with Debian? Do we step back there, too? Or do we step back only in Ubuntu due to the urgency of the situation?
[07:22] <pitti> I don't think the Debian release team will fancy going back to 1.5 in its frozen state; you could discuss it with them, but I presume that will cause some pain
[07:22] <pitti> does that affect other packages? library ABI (lots of rebuilds), filters, etc.?
[07:22] <pitti> ATM I have no idea how much effort a rollback would be
[07:23] <chrisccoulson> lol @ https://twitter.com/ThePoke/status/253754704981524483
[07:23] <chrisccoulson> hi didrocks, how are you?
[07:23] <pitti> tkamppeter: is it realistic to revert the commit that dropped the cups auto-discovery, in 1.6.1?
[07:23] <chrisccoulson> pitti, yeah, i was looking forward to seeing jason turn up in shorts ;)
[07:25] <tkamppeter> pitti, the library ABI of CUPS did not change, so rebuilds should not be bnneeded. So it is more or less gpoing back to the Precise package and applying selected new bug fixes (CUPS 1.5.4, fixes on usb and ipp backends, ...).
[07:25] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: I'm fine, thanks. Yourself?
[07:26] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, yeah, i'm not too bad thanks. although, quite tired. my daughter kept waking me up overnight because of her snoring! (she has a cold as well now)
[07:26] <didrocks> argh
[07:27] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: week-end is soon! hope you can catch back your lack of sleep :)
[07:28] <tkamppeter> pitti, the broadcasting/browsing-dropping commit is most probably a major change, as it includes dropping of cupsd.conf keywords, dropping of CUPS/IPP broadcasting, dropping of listening to the broadcasts, dropping of BrowsePoll/BrowseRelay.
[08:00] <Laney> hey ho
[08:00] <didrocks> hey Laney :)
[08:01] <dpm> hi pitti. I noticed this question about releasing an update for -se language packs for 11.10 and 12.04. Would it involve a lot of work to copy those packages to the PPA and getting them to -proposed and then -updates for these releases? Here's the question: https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu-translations/+question/209863
[08:01] <dpm> I meant *from the PPAs
[08:04] <pitti> dpm: no, if someone can test them so that they go to -updates
[08:04] <pitti> dpm: so that's only for -se, not for other languages? I thougth these would be covered by the regular langpack update cycles at least for 12.04
[08:04] <pitti> for 11.10 we can do an one-off copy for my sake
[08:07] <dpm> pitti, I think if it doesn't involve too much effort, we can do both at once. If you think leaving the 12.04 ones for the next round might be best, that's fine with me too. So can you or someone on desktop do the upload to -proposed and I'll get the translation team to test them?
[08:09] <seb128> hey desktopers
[08:09] <didrocks> hey seb128
[08:09] <seb128> lut didrocks
[08:12] <ivanka> hi seb128
[08:12] <seb128> ivanka, hey, how are you?
[08:13] <ivanka> seb128: I just ran updates and rebooted and I see a debian logo in the grub screen
[08:13] <ivanka> seb128: I am ok - how are you?
[08:13] <pitti> bonjour seb128
[08:13] <seb128> I'm good thanks
[08:13] <pitti> dpm: Oui, je peux :)
[08:13] <ivanka> pitti: morgen
[08:14] <pitti> hey ivanka, how are you?
[08:15] <seb128> ivanka, do you have "desktop-base" installed?
[08:15] <ivanka> pitti: I am well, you?
[08:15] <pitti> ivanka: me too, thanks!
[08:15]  * ivanka checks for desktop-base
[08:15] <seb128> ivanka, if you have that installed it's probably why you have the debian logo, uninstall it
[08:17] <ivanka> seb128: it is our test machine - no extra packages - just pure ubuntu
[08:18] <pitti> dpm: hm, copy-packages is being naughty to me
[08:20] <seb128> ivanka, I'm not sure if thatg's not desktop-base being installed, maybe try asking to cjwatson
[08:21]  * ivanka goes to look for cjwatson
[08:22] <ivanka> seb128: one more thing - the network notification in the greeter all the wrong shape and size - I have never seen that before. Who is the best person to ping?
[08:22] <seb128> ivanka, can you take a picture with your phone or something?
[08:23] <ivanka> seb128: just done that - shall I put it in a bug?
[08:23] <seb128> ivanka, try MacSlow (he maintains the notification framework) or mterry later in the day (he added the network stuff)
[08:23] <seb128> ivanka, sure
[08:23] <seb128> ivanka, open it against unity-greeter
[08:23] <seb128> ivanka, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-greeter/+filebug
[08:26] <pitti> dpm: for oneiric we only have a newer kde-se, no -gnome or base
[08:32] <pitti> dpm: done, updated question
[08:34] <ivanka> JohnLea: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-greeter/+bug/1061458
[08:34] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1061458 in unity-greeter "notification bubble in greeter wrong size" [Undecided,New]
[08:35] <xnox> that's a very big bubble
[08:35] <dpm> thanks pitti!
[09:24] <Laney> hmm
[09:24] <Laney> libgnome-desktop-3-4 contains unversioned binaries in /usr/lib/gnome-desktop3/
[09:25] <Laney> can we version that path? what calls them and how?
[09:25] <Laney> bug #1061283
[09:25] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1061283 in gnome-desktop3 "package libgnome-desktop-3-4 <IP_ADDRESS>-0ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite '/usr/lib/gnome-desktop3/check_gl_texture_size', which is also in package libgnome-desktop-3-2 3.4.2-0ubuntu0.1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1061283
[09:25] <didrocks> it's a private lib, right?
[09:26] <Sweetshark> seb128: could you have a look at the unity menu integration in the ppa build and decide if it is shippable as-is although not perfect?
[09:26] <didrocks> Laney: yeah, the utility being shipped in the lib package is annoying, should be a -bin, no?
[09:27] <Laney> didrocks: not sure, as it's in a private path
[09:27] <Laney> if it's considered part of the library then the path could be made /usr/lib/libgnome-desktop-3-4/...
[09:27] <didrocks> Laney: I added a -tool for nux for something similar
[09:27] <didrocks> but I agree it's weird
[09:27] <tkamppeter> pitti, here are some stats about the removal of CUPS Browsing/Broadcasting in 1.6.x: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1259640/
[09:28] <tkamppeter> pitti, looks like that it is easier to step back to 1.5.4.
[09:28] <didrocks> Laney: it's not part of the library AFAIK, it's just a checking returning 1 or 0 if you can have big resolutions
[09:28] <didrocks> Laney: it just happens to use the private library
[09:28] <didrocks> Laney: should rather be in /usr/lib/libgnome-desktop/ maybe (like a libexec)
[09:31] <pitti> tkamppeter: yeah, if it doesn't revert easily, I agree
[09:32] <seb128> Sweetshark, ok
[09:35] <Laney> didrocks: hum, so we installed these binaries for Unity to use from what I can see
[09:35] <Laney> can I split it into libgnome-desktop-3-bin and then we make Unity depend on that?
[09:35] <didrocks> Laney: not only unity, but it's to avoid to set a screensize higher that the supported resolution
[09:36] <didrocks> so you can't set it in gnome-control-center
[09:36] <didrocks> (it's the one calling it AFAIK)
[09:37] <didrocks> not directly calling it, but calling the libgnome-desktop which calls it maybe? I don't remember exactly what triggers it
[09:37] <didrocks> I know it prevents you to set it in g-c-c those "not supported by your card" config
[09:38] <Laney> maybe I'll add Replaces for now :/
[09:38] <didrocks> RAOF: hey still around, you are guilty for this IIRC? ^ ;-)
[09:38] <Laney> seems to me like a better solution would be to make it a separate package and have stuff add depends if it needs it
[09:38] <didrocks> Laney: yeah, we need a list to keep tracking those little things
[09:38] <didrocks> yeah, sounds a R material though
[09:39] <Laney> let me start a section on the pad
[09:39] <Laney> Stuff to not forget for R
[09:39] <didrocks> use the blink tag please! :)
[09:39] <Laney> heh :)
[09:40] <Laney> is anything on the pad still needed?
[09:42] <seb128> Laney, do you want to clean it?
[09:43] <Laney> am going to
[09:43] <seb128> Laney, the gconf,gtk2 rdepends lists are useful still I think
[09:43]  * didrocks sees a question turning into a task :)
[09:57] <Laney> there
[09:57]  * Laney goes to fix the bug now :P
[10:03] <tkamppeter> pitti, note that from the 9000 lines of the patch 4000 are in scheduler/dirsvc.c and this is where in 1.5.x our huge avahi patch applies and in 1.6.x the upstream Avahi support was introduced (after dropping browsing/broadcasting). This is a very heavy interference between patches.
[10:17] <chrisccoulson> hmmmm, how long after deleting packages from a PPA is it before the space is actually freed up?
[10:26] <Sweetshark> chrisccoulson: depends on the tide, the wind and the stellar constellation
[10:27] <chrisccoulson> heh, that's what i feared :)
[10:27] <Laney> yeah you're better off just asking for more space
[10:27] <Sweetshark> chrisccoulson: usually it can take some 3-6 hours in my experience
[10:27] <chrisccoulson> Laney, i did think about that, but i asked for more space only just last week ;)
[10:27] <Sweetshark> chrisccoulson: which is why I usually have a few ppas for test builds and iterate though them ...
[10:29] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i could probably do the builds i need to do in another PPA for now and then copy them across when the packages i deleted are actually deleted
[10:29] <chrisccoulson> just need to configure the other PPA to only pull from -security first :)
[10:32] <Sweetshark> chrisccoulson: thats what I do allways now for my build. I dont want the 'enduser-visible' ppa getting fubared by e.g. amd64 finishing just fine and then i386 running on a buildd with too small filesystems. Thus building/staging in my 'private private package archive' and then moving over to the 'public private package archive'.
[10:41] <mpt> xnox, didrocks, have either of you heard from the Calbuntu folks recently?
[10:42] <xnox> mpt: what is Calbuntu?
[10:42] <didrocks> same reactions :)
[10:42]  * didrocks googles
[10:42] <didrocks> ah, those guys :)
[10:43] <didrocks> didn't remember the name
[10:43] <mpt> didrocks, xnox, <https://launchpad.net/calubiquity>, specifically <https://blueprints.launchpad.net/calubiquity/+spec/sso-oneconf>
[10:43] <didrocks> mpt: no, I tried to reach them during the holidays
[10:43] <didrocks> mpt: as they were supposed to end their student work by then
[10:43] <didrocks> sent 3 emails, no answer…
[10:44] <xnox> mpt: ah. that stuff. My guess is that summer is over and the school year started?! Last I heard from them, they had troubles establishing authentication to ubuntu one.
[10:44] <xnox> =(
[10:45] <mpt> ok
[10:58] <mpt> That's weird
[10:58] <mpt> When a file's name includes the string "\n", Nautilus misinterprets that as a line break when it's in the Trash folder
[10:58] <mpt> but not when it's in the Home folder
[10:59] <mpt> Why would it have different filename display code for different folders?
[11:01] <didrocks> because it's cool? :)
[11:01] <didrocks> that's weird, indeed, confirmed
[11:01] <mpt> We ship old Nautilus, someone want to test this in trunk?
[11:07] <mpt> (reported bug 1061533)
[11:08] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1061533 in nautilus "In Trash folder, Nautilus misinterprets "\n" in filename as a line break" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1061533
[11:41] <chrisccoulson> holy crap, i just switched my phone on for the first time in a week, and it's prompted me to upgrade to jelly bean
[11:41] <chrisccoulson> at last!
[11:45] <chrisccoulson> but my phone won't let me install it, because the battery charge is less than 35% :(
[11:45] <chrisccoulson> i should keep my phone charged more often
[11:48] <seb128> lol
[11:48] <seb128> chrisccoulson, you seem to use your phone a lot ;-)
[11:49] <seb128> chrisccoulson, which one do you have btw?
[11:49] <chrisccoulson> seb128, i have a HTC One X. i hardly ever use it because i can never find a cable to charge it with
[11:49] <chrisccoulson> my daughter keeps hiding them ;)
[11:50] <seb128> don't they use microUSB?
[11:51] <seb128> chrisccoulson, do you like it? /me is looking for his next phone, the HTC One game looks nice, though the X is a bit too much of a big screen to my taste (and small hands)
[11:51] <chrisccoulson> they do. but my phone is the only device i have that uses micro USB. i have 2 cables (not including the one that's also in my car), but ruby seems to manage to hide both of them ;)
[11:51] <seb128> haha
[11:51] <chrisccoulson> i like the One X, but then I like devices with big screens too :)
[11:52] <chrisccoulson> it's quite well built too. mine's survived a couple of drops on to the driveway already
[12:04] <dpm> pitti, hm, I'm not sure what's wrong with the ubuntuone-control-panel.mo file, it still didn't get shipped in the language packs from yesterday, so the Ubuntu One control panel appears untranslated
[12:23] <chrisccoulson> launchpad needs a "nuke packages" button which actually deletes packages from a PPA straight away :)
[12:26] <pitti> dpm: it doesn't appear at all in quantal.log
[12:28]  * pitti runs tar tf ubuntu-quantal-translations-update.tar.gz | grep ubuntuone-control
[12:28] <pitti> hm, it's there
[12:29] <dpm> pitti, and in the admin page it says it is exported in langpacks. Was the package demoted to universe or changed repos recently?
[12:31] <pitti> no, it's still in main
[12:32] <pitti> there are various conditions where it woudln't be copied, but they are all logged (bad locale, unknown country, etc.)
[12:37] <pitti> dpm: double-WTF
[12:38]  * pitti investigates
[12:42]  * dpm is puzzled too
[12:43] <didrocks> waow /bin/dbus-daemon --config-file=/etc/at-spi2/accessibility.conf --nofork --print-address 3
[12:43] <didrocks> 100% on one CPU
[12:43] <didrocks> fan was going crazy :)
[12:45] <pitti> dpm: aah, *headdesk*
[12:45] <pitti> dpm: it gets classified as "KDE" as it uses Qt stuff, and we stopped building KDE packs
[12:46] <pitti> DEBUG: Copying sr/ubuntuone-control-panel into package quantal//sources-base/language-pack-sr-base
[12:46] <pitti> c'est ça
[12:50] <pitti> dpm: rolled out the fix to macquarie
[12:51] <dpm> pitti, awesome, thanks!
[12:52] <pitti> chrisccoulson, didrocks: is it known that firefox now never stops bothering me about "install webapp blabla" even though I already answered "no" several times/
[12:52] <pitti> ?
[12:53] <chrisccoulson> pitti, i thought the webapps guys had fixed that
[12:54] <pitti> well, it went from "never appears" to "always appears" recently
[12:55] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, perhaps i should install these addons again ;)
[12:58] <didrocks> pitti: it's supposed to be fixed since yesterday
[12:58] <didrocks> pitti: there are some packages in the ubuntu-dekstop ppa
[12:58] <didrocks> can you install them and check? (it's not working on chromium, which is mine though :/)
[12:58] <didrocks> pitti: ken will know if he will have a good or bad day when waking up then :)
[13:32] <Laney> pitti: didrocks: I accepted some new webapp packages just before lunch, about an hour ago
[13:32] <Laney> did you get those?
[13:33] <didrocks> let's see what pitti will gave for feedback. I'm trying to get my install clean of answer for testing chromium :)
[13:35] <kenvandine> Laney, thanks!
[13:35] <kenvandine> didrocks, chromium is still broken
[13:35] <didrocks> kenvandine: yeah, but pitti  was talking about firefox
[13:35] <kenvandine> if you are talking about webapps in chromium
[13:35] <kenvandine> ok
[13:35] <didrocks> 14:52:54         pitti | chrisccoulson, didrocks: is it known that firefox now never stops bothering me about "install webapp blabla"
[13:35] <didrocks>                        | even though I already answered "no" several times/
[13:35] <didrocks> kenvandine: ^
[13:35] <kenvandine> things are light years better today than they were on monday
[13:35] <kenvandine> :)
[13:35] <kenvandine> oh
[13:35] <didrocks> not sure if that's part of this update or the previous ones
[13:35] <kenvandine> that is a new bug :)
[13:35] <pitti> Laney: perhaps it asks every time there is an update?
[13:35] <didrocks> (it's not in the changelog)
[13:36] <kenvandine> bug 1060888
[13:36] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1060888 in ayatana-design "Web app prompt appears on every single page load" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1060888
[13:36] <cyphermox> bkerensa: cool, thanks for the input
[13:36] <kenvandine> oh, that might be different
[13:37] <didrocks> well I guess pitti is telling "no" :)
[13:37] <didrocks> and IIRC, that was supposed to be fixed
[13:37] <pitti> I'll see next time :)
[13:37] <kenvandine> i'll check on that
[13:38] <kenvandine> pitti, check the value of com.canonical.unity.webapps dontask-domains
[13:38] <pitti> gsettings or firefox?
[13:38] <kenvandine> see if the domain you said no to is in that list
[13:38] <kenvandine> gsettings
[13:39] <pitti> kenvandine: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1259967/
[13:39] <pitti> ah, so either I mis-clicked on those, or it's resetting them
[13:39] <pitti> I'll take a look, thanks for that pointer
[13:39] <kenvandine> please let me know
[13:39] <kenvandine> we can get it on their hit list of bugs :)
[13:40] <didrocks> pitti: stop being drunk when clicking buttons :)
[13:40] <kenvandine> haha
[13:44] <pitti> kenvandine, didrocks: those are the two that I actually installed
[13:44] <pitti> but I removed the packages again (manually) as I don't really need them
[13:44] <kenvandine> oh
[13:44] <pitti> didrocks, kenvandine: could it be that once I say "yes", but later say "don't ask again", they never move from allowed to dontask again?
[13:44] <kenvandine> bug
[13:44] <didrocks> pitti: more than possible, I triggered a lot of similar case the past few days
[13:44] <didrocks> but they are fixed now
[13:45] <kenvandine> i think dontask-domains should be the domain
[13:45] <kenvandine> not the package name
[13:45]  * kenvandine confirms
[13:45] <didrocks> kenvandine: yeah, sounds sensible
[13:46] <kenvandine> pitti, could you please file a bug on that?
[13:46] <didrocks> even that, the double tasks really shows that webapps is fragile
[13:46] <kenvandine> i am testing here, and i'll confirm the bug
[13:46] <pitti> indeed -- the key name is "dontask-domains", but the values are package names
[13:47] <pitti> kenvandine: which package to file the bug against?
[13:47] <kenvandine> libunity-webapps
[13:47] <didrocks> pitti: double domain is fixed apparently, no need to file that one
[13:47] <pitti> *nod*
[13:48] <pitti> kenvandine: thanks, will do after my current meating
[13:48] <pitti> meeting
[13:48] <Sweetshark> doko: I assume the vigra stuff is solved now? I would have time to look at it now, but I guess I can dump that now as you already tested it?
[13:48] <didrocks> I'm hungry now :)
[14:09] <pitti> kenvandine: filed bug 1061633 now
[14:09] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1061633 in libunity-webapps "Keeps asking me for installing packages even when I said "don't ask again"" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1061633
[14:11] <kenvandine> pitti, thx
[14:16] <Laney> where's the right location for bug reports for the uoa mission-control plugin in empathy? bugzilla? the code is upstream
[14:18] <kenvandine> Laney, empathy
[14:18] <kenvandine> bugzilla
[14:18] <Laney> yeah
[14:18] <Laney> ta
[14:25] <Laney> hm
[14:25] <Laney> if you override XDG_*_HOME, apparmor profiles will break because they hardcode the defaults
[14:27] <jdstrand> who is expected to override that?
[14:27] <Laney> don't know
[14:27] <xnox> unit tests?!
[14:27] <Laney> but you can do it
[14:27] <xnox> fallback if not available?!
[14:28] <jdstrand> in other words, this isn't conceptually different from changing other defaults
[14:28] <jdstrand> unit tests will presumably not be using the same path to the binary so there is no attachment
[14:28] <Laney> there's no way for apparmor to respect environment variables?
[14:28] <xnox> (and can do other types of setup)
[14:28] <jdstrand> ie, you do unit tests against code in your build tree, not /usr/bin
[14:29] <jdstrand> if apparmor respected env variables, it would be a means to escape confinment
[14:30] <jdstrand> there might be something we could do with tunables
[14:30] <jdstrand> but, if this is only a thing for developers, then they can use /etc/apparmor.d/local imho
[14:31] <Laney> I wouldn't want to guess at the use cases people might have for this
[14:31] <jdstrand> (or sysadmins-- which the local/ mechanism is designed for
[14:31] <Laney> it's in a spec
[14:32]  * jdstrand only learned about pam-xdg within the last week-- no one consulted the security team
[14:32] <jdstrand> thankfully, most existing profiles aren't affected by this
[14:33] <jdstrand> but our take is that the profiles should work in a default install. if someone changes the location of their HOME or these XDG settings, they should adjust their profile
[14:34] <jdstrand> if there is a compelling reason to do something different, we can try to come up with something more user friendly
[14:35] <jdstrand> (mind, we have some very high priority work we are targeting for 13.04, so this would be behind that in all likelihood)
[14:36] <Laney> at least using a tunable would be better, to reduce the number of places you need to change from n to 2
[14:37] <jdstrand> a tunable we could do much sooner of course
[14:37] <jdstrand> Laney: can you file a bug on it against apparmor?
[14:37] <Laney> yes
[14:39] <xnox> jdstrand: well pam-xdg-runtime was discussed at the uds and i thought you even where in that session. it is needed for gdm/gnome multiseat as far as I know.
[14:40] <xnox> maybe i am very wrong. cause it was a while ago =)
[14:40] <tkamppeter> seb128, pitti, Sweetshark, as rolling cups back to 1.5.4 is a too big change and requires rebuild of GTK2/3, probably the solution with lowest impact is to modify the printer enumeration in the print dialogs of GTK, Qt, and LibreOffice. This can be probably done with rather small patches so that it can be issued as SRU. WDYT?
[14:40] <jdstrand> well, we fixed the profiles for the multiseat default setup
[14:41] <jdstrand> it is changing it beyond that
[14:41] <pitti> tkamppeter: or FFE?
[14:42] <seb128> tkamppeter, sounds a better way out ... let's see for a FFe once we get the patches
[14:45] <tkamppeter> pitti, FFE is still possible? I would bet that each dialog needs a patch ~50 lines. This should be done if possible by someone familiar with the toolkits. I can tell which new library function to use and also give example code.
[14:51] <pitti> tkamppeter: I would think so, given that it is a regression
[14:57] <mterry> jbicha, are screenshots of aisleriot and mahjongg in the docs?
[14:58]  * mterry doesn't see it, but not sure I have searched everywhere
[15:00] <jbicha> mterry: no, they have their own docs though
[15:01] <mterry> jbicha, hmm, only one with screenshots is mahjongg
[15:02] <mterry> jbicha, I'm looking at a merge proposal to bring back ubuntu-branding for those two games (accidentally got dropped a while back)
[15:02] <mterry> jbicha, it seems like mahjongg has a screenshot that shows a little gnome tile.  Wonder how that was handled back when ubuntu-branding was working.  I suspect there was a mismatch there too
[15:05] <seb128> Sweetshark, so, your libreoffice ppa, libreoffice segfaults if I run "libreoffice" and do "new -> text document" in the menu
[15:06] <seb128> Sweetshark, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1260111/
[15:06] <seb128> well it's not every time but I got it twice already
[15:06] <jbicha> mterry: oh yeah, there is that too
[15:06]  * mterry will test on lucid, and if there was a mismatch there, will go ahead
[15:07] <mterry> This regression has been here since 11.10!
[15:07] <jbicha> those screenshots are natty and later, I'm guessing branding was dropped before that
[15:07] <mterry> natty eh?  I should test that then, not lucid
[15:07] <jbicha> but it's not nearly critical enough to need a UIFe at this point
[15:08] <mterry> jbicha, I didn't think this would need a UIFe?
[15:08] <jbicha> mterry: UI changes need UIF exceptions, yes
[15:08] <mterry> I guess I was thinking it was just a regression, but since it's a regression that's been around for several releases, it's no longer a regression.  :)
[15:09] <kenvandine> mterry, hehe... when is a regression not a regression :)
[15:09] <jbicha_> and it doesn't make things any less usable or polished really
[15:09] <kenvandine> age old question
[15:19] <glatzor> mvo, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/aptdaemon/+bug/1061682
[15:19] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1061682 in aptdaemon "High trust packages/repository doesn't work with PK interface" [High,Confirmed]
[15:19] <mvo> glatzor: \o/
[15:25] <glatzor> mvo, how do you mark a bug for several releases?
[15:26] <glatzor> mvo, I would like to keep the bug report arround as a reminder to fix the issue by design after release and not only by a workaround for the release
[15:27] <mvo> glatzor: target to series
[15:27] <mvo> glatzor: do you want quantal and R ?
[15:27] <glatzor> mvo yep
[15:28] <mvo> glatzor: added, pplease reload
[16:05] <Laney> guh
[16:05] <Laney> I lost my messaging indicator icon on dist-upgrade
[16:08] <seb128> Laney, completely lost?
[16:08] <Laney> I've got the no icon icon
[16:09] <Laney> haven't restart it yet
[16:09] <seb128> :-(
[16:09] <Laney> still in the same session, it'll probably come back when I log in again
[16:09] <seb128> that shouldn't happen
[16:09] <Laney> indeed
[16:09] <seb128> when I updated ubuntu-mono here the indicator picked the new icon
[16:09] <Sweetshark> seb128: see the replies: I cant reproduce it here, though I had that issue before. I have a patch against glib to make glib a bit more robust in that case. afernandez seems to have hopes to have a patch that fixes it for good.
[16:09] <seb128> can you kill indicator-messages-service and unity-panel-service and see how it goes?
[16:10] <seb128> Sweetshark, can you get desrt to review the glib patch if you think we need that in?
[16:11] <Sweetshark> seb128: I would still suggest to take the glib patch in too: a/ its trivial b/ its just making it a bit more robust, so it wont hurt, but might help in cornercases.
[16:11] <Sweetshark> desrt: ^^^
[16:11] <seb128> Sweetshark, you should probably put it in a bug on https://bugzilla.gnome.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=glib
[16:12] <Sweetshark> seb128: :/ no account there
[16:16] <desrt> Sweetshark: what glib patch?
[16:16] <Laney> seb128: well I'm running a gnome classic session on this laptop. I already had the new indicator-messages, but in this run I got the new ubuntu-mono
[16:18] <jbicha> Laney: what theme are you using?
[16:18] <Sweetshark> desrt: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1260252/
[16:18] <Laney> ambiance
[16:20] <desrt> Sweetshark: uh......
[16:20] <desrt> Sweetshark: no :)
[16:20] <desrt> stop using non-threadsafe objects from more than one thread
[16:22] <seb128> Laney, it's maybe a bug in indicator-applet then (not updating icons when they change on disk)
[16:22] <desrt> Sweetshark: or alternatively file a real bug with a real hope of real analysis :p
[16:22] <Laney> seb128: I've downgraded ubuntu-mono and humanity-icon-theme (just in case) and it's still not back
[16:22] <Laney> after killing i-m-s, which causes it to respawn
[16:22] <Sweetshark> desrt: well, we have a nice little SolarMutexGuard around all the access to it. And I was promised that that should solve it as the gtk main loop is hooked to it ...
[16:23] <seb128> Laney, did you try to gnome-panel --replace?
[16:23] <Laney> no
[16:23] <Laney> doing
[16:23] <seb128> Laney, what theme do you use?
[16:23] <Laney> ambiance
[16:23] <desrt> Sweetshark: not good enough
[16:23] <Laney> seb128: ah, yes, that got it back
[16:23] <Laney> let me try upgrading them again
[16:23] <desrt> Sweetshark: if a request comes in from outside, gdbus will run it in context of the mainloop to which it is attached
[16:23] <desrt> Sweetshark: and in that case you won't have your lock held
[16:24] <desrt> Sweetshark: this goes back to what i was saying earlier: you have to acquire the main context to which it belongs if you want to do this type of thing
[16:24] <desrt> and the usual way of dealing with that is to use an idle dispatch
[16:25] <seb128> Sweetshark, did you see that antonio said he has a fix for that?
[16:25] <Laney> seb128: yeah, after --replace it works even with the new icons
[16:25] <seb128> Laney, ok, weird
[16:26] <Laney> oh well, not imporatnt
[16:26] <seb128> Laney, but at least it works
[16:26] <seb128> indeed
[16:26] <seb128> especially that it will not happen for precise upgrades
[16:26] <Sweetshark> seb128: yes, just after my reply. :/
[16:26] <seb128> since we basically reverted the changes
[16:29] <Sweetshark> seb128: *grumble* I missed his mail today noon, I really want to know what his fix is.
[16:30] <Sweetshark> seb128: I have two possible fix ideas ...
[16:30] <Sweetshark> and now he is offline.
[16:42] <mhr3> Laney, re the large icons in dash bug that doesn't have uife - it's not fixed
[16:42] <mhr3> only some infra branches for that were merged
[16:42] <mhr3> but ui-wise the bug is still there
[16:42] <mhr3> ie nothing changed
[16:44] <Laney> mhr3: what's this?
[16:44] <Laney> +      if (use_small_icon || app_icon.to_string () == GENERIC_APP_ICON)
[16:44] <Laney> +      {
[16:44] <Laney> +        annotated_icon.size_hint = IconSizeHint.SMALL;
[16:44] <Laney> +      }
[16:44] <Laney> +2012-09-27  Michal Hruby<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[16:44] <Laney> +
[16:44] <Laney> +	Use size-hint for items in "More suggestions" category. Fixes: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1052513. Approved by Pawel Stolowski.
[16:44] <mhr3> unity ignores that hint
[16:44] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1052513 in unity-lens-applications "Dash - 'More suggestions' icons are too large" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[16:44] <Laney> hmm
[16:44] <pitti> bonne nuit tout le monde!
[16:45] <Laney> pitti: gute Nacht
[16:46] <seb128> pitti, 'nuit
[16:51] <bcurtiswx> kenvandine, is webapps supposed to link your google calendar with your desktop ?
[17:01] <seb128> bcurtiswx, define "link with desktop"?
[17:08] <bcurtiswx> seb128, the calendar in the time menu top right
[17:10] <seb128> bcurtiswx, no, that's not implemented, maybe next cycle...
[17:13] <bcurtiswx> seb128, OK thx.
[17:13] <seb128> bcurtiswx, how are btw? I didn't see you around for a while (or was it me being too busy to pay attention to IRC)?
[17:14] <bcurtiswx> seb128, i am well. I've been unable to do any packaging stuff because I'm now spending 3 days a week at NASA
[17:14] <seb128> oh, the space NASA? ;-)
[17:15] <bcurtiswx> seb128, yup. :)
[17:15] <seb128> nice! ;-)
[17:15] <bcurtiswx> seb128, it seems there are quite a few ubuntu installs here. Made me happy :)
[17:16] <seb128> excellent ;-)
[17:27] <bcurtiswx> haha bryceh according to some gaming outlets you work for Valve now...
[17:30] <Sweetshark> bcurtiswx: you work for valve? where is my linux native portal than? huh? *feettapping* huh?
[17:30] <Sweetshark> bryceh: ^^
[17:31] <Laney> Who's Daniel van Vugt?
[17:31] <Laney> his changelog entries are the best!
[17:31] <Sweetshark> Laney: example?
[17:31] <bcurtiswx> Sweetshark, i do not work for Valve (would be a nice job though)
[17:31] <dobey> bcurtiswx: hey; i almost won a very interesting piece of equipment on ebay the other day, but sadly lost the auction :-/
[17:31] <Laney> Sweetshark: I'm just reviewing the upstream ChangeLog for Unity
[17:31] <Laney> not the best as in amusing, just nice and detailed
[17:32] <Sweetshark> ah.
[17:32] <Sweetshark> Laney: otherwise: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=180dcdecac80e87f4984024c24f4beeef9dbf766 and http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=e4bfd2ff060b89b2b7119bcb6a5c6bfb02815601
[17:32] <bcurtiswx> One thing that should go into Unity for 13.04 is if there are more than one window right clicking will give window title bar text so you can easily click which window you want from there..
[17:33] <bcurtiswx> dobey, and that is ?
[17:33] <dobey> bcurtiswx: it was a SeaSpace TeraScan receiver module. would have been awesome, after getting an antenna to hook up to it
[17:34] <bcurtiswx> dobey, gonna try to listen to the astronauts? or just long distance transmission ?
[17:34] <dobey> bcurtiswx: no, it's for pulling the data from NOAA satellites
[17:34] <dobey> lots of awesome weather/storm software on it too
[17:35] <bcurtiswx> dobey, ah. I think all that data is open source anyways. The only difficulty would be finding where to get it from
[17:35] <dobey> bcurtiswx: http://psbcw1.nesdis.noaa.gov/terascan/home_basic/what_is_terascan.html <- one of the bits for this system :)
[17:38] <dobey> bcurtiswx: the whole systems can cost up to like $100K plus support contracts and such. would have been cool to get one of the modules for $50 :)
[17:39] <bcurtiswx> dobey, i use the data thats provided online. Mine's space weather so i grab the satellite data from swpc.noaa.gov
[17:40] <dobey> bcurtiswx: right
[17:41] <bcurtiswx> Wow, i'm just noticing that indicator numbers were removed from unity icons
[17:41] <dobey> bcurtiswx: i guess i'm a bit more interested in all the other bits of the system, than just the raw data :)
[17:41] <seb128> Laney, Daniel is duflu ... he's one of the compiz maintainers in #ps
[17:41] <Laney> ah
[17:41] <bryceh> Sweetshark, I know exactly where it is.  ;-)
[17:41] <Laney> well, I like the detail in his changelogs
[17:41] <Laney> so kudos from me
[17:41] <bryceh> bcurtiswx, yeah I need to do some blogging I see...
[17:42] <bcurtiswx> bryceh, good luck with that.. :P
[17:43] <Laney> unity all accepted
[17:43] <seb128> Laney, he's a rockstar, he's really focussed on quality (he's like running compiz under valgrind to test merge requests before approving those)
[17:43] <Laney> just gdocs to reupload when ken fixes it
[17:43]  * Sweetshark connects his portal gun to bryceh brain, extracts portal-for-linux location, autoaims at the desk below it and than aims a the ceiling of his living room.
[17:44] <bcurtiswx> Sweetshark, just make sure to be part of their 1000 person beta whenever the signup form gets released
[17:45] <Sweetshark> bcurtiswx: somebody would need to give me back nvidia graphics on this thinkpad w520. some kernel update broke it ~January 2012 ...
[17:46] <bryceh> Sweetshark, ah so you have motivation to do some git bisection?  ;-)
[17:47] <Sweetshark> bryceh: all bisect powers already spend on http://sweetshark.livejournal.com/7683.html
[18:03] <mlankhorst> sigh my keyboard is a mouse
[18:06]  * mlankhorst shakes fist at logitech
[19:18] <toabctl> seb128, there's a patch for #1058205 commited. How do you handle this for ubuntu? Do you want to do a new release and upload that or do you want a patch for debian/patches?
[19:20] <seb128> toabctl, I'm handling it yes
[19:21] <toabctl> seb128, I could do this, too. I just wanted to know what solution you prefer :)
[19:23] <seb128> toabctl, you want to do it?
[19:25] <toabctl> seb128, I would like to try. I would create a branch and create a merge request. that's the right way!?
[19:25] <seb128> toabctl, yes
[19:25] <toabctl> seb128, so which solution do you prefer? a new upstream version or a patch in debian/patches?
[19:25] <seb128> toabctl, basically:
[19:26] <seb128> - checkout lp:~ubuntu-desktop/ayatana-scrollbar/ubuntu/
[19:26] <seb128> cd ubuntu
[19:26] <seb128> bzr merge lp:ayatana-scrollbar -c 357
[19:26] <seb128> dch -i
[19:26] <seb128> bzr commit
[19:26] <seb128> bzr push lp:~toabctrl/ayatana-scrollbar/somefixes
[19:26] <seb128> then merge propose it
[19:29] <dobey> is dh migrations a quantal-only thing?
[19:29] <toabctl> seb128, what about lp:ubuntu/overlay-scrollbar overlay-scrollbar ? that's not the correct branch?
[19:30] <seb128> toabctl, no, it's not, that's the autoimport from the archive
[19:31] <toabctl> seb128, ok.
[19:31] <seb128> toabctl, when a Vcs is listed in debian/control it's the one to use
[19:31] <seb128> dobey, yes
[19:31] <dobey> thanks
[19:31] <toabctl> seb128, is there a command line tool to get the Vcs field from any package of the archive?
[19:31] <seb128> toabctl, apt-get source tell you about it
[19:32] <seb128> $ apt-get source  overlay-scrollbar
[19:32] <seb128> ...
[19:32] <seb128> NOTICE: 'overlay-scrollbar' packaging is maintained in the 'Bzr' version control system at:
[19:32] <seb128> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/ayatana-scrollbar/ubuntu
[19:33] <toabctl> seb128, yes. that downloads the whole source. I just thought there's maybe a command which just looks at qa.packages.ubuntu.com....
[19:33] <seb128> toabctl, apt-cache showsrc overlay-scrollbar | grep Vcs
[19:33] <toabctl> seb128, ah. that's what I missed! thanks!
[19:34] <seb128> yw!
[19:34] <micahg> or just debcheckout overlay-scrollbar
[19:35] <micahg> oh, right, you don't want the whole source
[19:35] <jcastro_> jbicha, ping
[19:35] <jcastro_> jbicha, if you want to join us on #ubuntu-on-air we'd love to have you come on, answer some user questions about the gnome spn
[19:39] <jbicha> just in IRC?
[19:39] <jbicha> crazy busy week
[19:39] <jbicha> :)
[19:43] <toabctl> seb128, can you have a look at https://code.launchpad.net/~toabctl/ayatana-scrollbar/fix-1058205-for-ubuntu/+merge/128099 please?
[19:46] <toabctl> micahg, in bzr branch lp:~ubuntu-desktop/ayatana-scrollbar/ubuntu is also the complete source.
[19:47] <seb128> toabctl, thanks, merged, on its way to be uploaded
[19:47] <toabctl> seb128, thanks!
[19:49] <toabctl> seb128, seems to be a bit inconsitent that some branches only have the debian/ dir and some branches the whole source.
[19:49] <toabctl> ^^ in ~ubuntu-desktop
[19:49] <seb128> toabctl, yeah :-(
[19:49] <seb128> it's a complex thing
[19:49] <seb128> - the full sources vcs are heavy to checkout for big sources
[19:49] <toabctl> seb128, seems that the canonical software doesn't make releases so  ~ubuntu-desktop uses directly the branches!?
[19:50] <seb128> - the real win comes when upstream is in bzr (so you can bzr merge a revision like there)
[19:50] <seb128> well, they usually do, though overlay-scrollbars
[19:50] <seb128> doesn't
[19:50] <seb128> it's just that source is light enough to be checked out
[19:50] <seb128> with the upstream in bzr so we benefit from the vcs integration
[19:51] <Ursinha> are you guys able to connect empathy? I have the newest packages as possible and it's just not connecting anymore
[19:52] <seb128> Ursinha, works here, what account types to do you use and what errors do you get?
[19:52] <Ursinha> none of the accounts are connecting anymore, but gtalk is the only one showing me an error, it says "Status is set to offline" and doesn't connect
[19:52] <Ursinha> all the others are just not connecting
[19:53] <Ursinha> an user reported me this issue today and I could reproduce it
[19:53] <Ursinha> seb128, he filed bug 1061824
[19:53] <seb128> kenvandine, ^
[19:56] <Ursinha> kenvandine, s9iper1 reported that bug, he might be able to help
[19:57] <s9iper1> yeah i am here
[19:58] <Ursinha> bug 1061824
[19:59] <Ursinha> ah, oh c'mon Nafallo
[19:59] <Ursinha> lol
[19:59] <Nafallo> Ursinha: the bot fails to reconnect to freenode after security upgrades of the VM :-/
[19:59] <Ursinha> Nafallo, :/
[19:59] <s9iper1> its not working today bug + number
[20:00] <seb128> Ursinha, s9iper1: could maybe have to do with https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm/+bug/1059510
[20:00]  * Ursinha look
[20:00] <seb128> do you have the current version?
[20:00] <Ursinha> s
[20:00] <Ursinha> seb128, I have the latest version of everything (unless it reached the archives in the last 20 minutes...)
[20:00] <Ursinha> let me check
[20:01] <seb128> Ursinha, did you reboot since? apparmor doesn't pick changes dynamically I think
[20:01] <Ursinha> oh
[20:01] <Ursinha> seb128, not really.. I'm not used to rebooting after updates
[20:02] <s9iper1> i have the latest version as well
[20:02] <Ursinha> I have an script running right now, s9iper1 is it possible for you to restart your machine and check if it's working?
[20:02] <s9iper1> i recently upgraded and restarted
[20:02] <Ursinha> or have you restarted already
[20:02] <Ursinha> gah
[20:02] <Ursinha> ok
[20:02] <Nafallo> Ursinha, seb128: it should pick it up if you restart the confined program I think.
[20:02] <Ursinha> Nafallo, I killed everything related to empathy and ran again
[20:02] <Ursinha> the problem is there
[20:02] <seb128> Ursinha, s9iper1: do you have any error in the empathy debug dialog?
[20:03] <s9iper1> no
[20:03] <s9iper1> yes yes
[20:03] <s9iper1> yess
[20:03] <s9iper1> i have  i have attached the log file with the bug as well
[20:03] <s9iper1> seb128 its attached in the bug
[20:04] <Ursinha> seb128, what I see here: tp_proxy_prepare_async: assertion `TP_IS_PROXY (self)' failed
[20:05] <Ursinha> and
[20:05] <Ursinha> tp_proxy_prepare_async: assertion `TP_IS_PROXY (self)' failed
[20:05] <Ursinha> hmm, gah
[20:05] <Ursinha> tp_dbus_check_valid_object_path: assertion `path != NULL' failed
[20:05] <seb128> s9iper1, Ursinha: the log has "unable to create file '/run/user/s9iper1/dconf/user': Permission denied.  dconf will not work properly."
[20:05] <seb128> which is what is supposed to be fixed with
[20:05] <seb128> telepathy-mission-control-5 (1:5.13.1-0ubuntu3) quantal; urgency=low
[20:05] <seb128>   * debian/apparmor-profile: last fix was incomplete. We need to also allow
[20:05] <seb128>     owner 'rw' access to /{,var/}run/user/*/dconf/user in the profile for
[20:05] <seb128>     /usr/lib/telepathy/telepathy-* (LP: #1059510)
[20:05] <seb128>
[20:05] <seb128> Ursinha, s9iper1: dpkg -l telepathy-mission-control-5
[20:06] <Ursinha> 1:5.13.1-0ubuntu3
[20:06] <Ursinha> that's the version I got here
[20:06] <seb128> Ursinha, sudo aa-complain telepathy
[20:06] <seb128> does that fix it?
[20:06] <s9iper1> me to
[20:07] <Ursinha> what is that?
[20:07] <seb128> Ursinha, it disable the apparmor security shield
[20:07] <seb128> e.g to see if that's the security rules breaking it for you
[20:07] <Ursinha> is that I don't have it installed
[20:07] <seb128> you don't have apparmor installed?
[20:07] <Ursinha> seb128, that's interesting
[20:08] <seb128> it's the standard ubuntu security mechanism
[20:08] <Ursinha> this aa-complain, no
[20:08] <seb128> oh
[20:08] <seb128> not sure the tools are installed by default
[20:08] <s9iper1> seb128:sudo: aa-complain: command not found
[20:08] <seb128> apparmor-utils: /usr/sbin/aa-complain
[20:08] <seb128> ^ you want to install apparmor-utils
[20:10] <Ursinha> seb128, I thought for a while I might be missing an important package :) there you go, it's set
[20:10] <kenvandine> i saw that upload this morning and it sounds like it should fix that bug
[20:11] <seb128> Ursinha, does that fix the issue?
[20:12] <seb128> jdstrand, mdeslaur: what's the way to reload aa profiles without reboot?
[20:13] <Ursinha> seb128, should I look for anything else, any logs or anything? it's still not working
[20:13] <Ursinha> I guess I'll need to reboot to fully test it
[20:13] <seb128> Ursinha, you ran "sudo aa-complain telepathy"
[20:13] <seb128> Ursinha, what accounts are not working?
[20:13] <Ursinha> seb128, yes, I did
[20:13] <mdeslaur> seb128: sudo /etc/init.d/apparmor reload I believe
[20:13] <seb128> Ursinha, what output did it display?
[20:13] <mdeslaur> seb128: dmesg | grep apparmor will show any denials
[20:14] <seb128> mdeslaur, 'ci
[20:14] <Ursinha> let me do this
[20:14] <Ursinha> there you go
[20:14] <Ursinha> seb128, after reloading, it connected
[20:14] <Ursinha> \o/
[20:14] <seb128> ok
[20:15] <s9iper1> ursinha : has empathy connected now ??
[20:15] <seb128> jdstrand, mdeslaur: it seems like apparmor might still not liking telepathy and XDG_USER_DIR
[20:15] <Ursinha> s9iper1, yes, it just worked :)
[20:15] <seb128> ups
[20:15] <seb128> XDG_RUNTIME_DIR
[20:16] <jdstrand> seb128: I fixed it this morning. what version of telepathy?
[20:16] <s9iper1> ursinha what you run ?
[20:16] <seb128> jdstrand,
[20:16] <seb128> Ursinha, s9iper1: dpkg -l telepathy-mission-control-5
 1:5.13.1-0ubuntu3
[20:16] <seb128>  that's the version I got here
[20:16] <s9iper1> seb128:telepathy-miss 1:5.13.1-0ub i386
[20:17] <seb128> jdstrand, but maybe it's a "need to reboot" issue, s9iper1 said he rebooted though
[20:17] <seb128> s9iper1, dpkg -l | grep telepathy-mission-control-5
[20:17] <jdstrand> what are the denials?
[20:17] <jdstrand> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/118358424/telepathy-mission-control-5_1%3A5.13.1-0ubuntu2_1%3A5.13.1-0ubuntu3.diff.gz was the fix
[20:17] <s9iper1> seb128:1:5.13.1-0ubuntu2
[20:17] <seb128> oh
[20:18] <jdstrand> need ubuntu3
[20:18] <seb128> jdstrand, unping then, Ursinha didn't reboot and I guess that's needed for apparmor to reload its profiles
[20:18] <jdstrand> ubuntu2 was a partial fix
[20:18] <s9iper1> i rebooted my system when i run the update update manager said to restart than i restart by his message
[20:18] <seb128> jdstrand, s9iper1 is outdated
[20:18] <seb128> s9iper1, you are one version behind, maybe your mirror is outdated
[20:18] <jdstrand> well, the reboot shouldn't be needed
[20:18] <s9iper1> i have quality ubuntu
[20:19] <Ursinha_> which version should I have here?
[20:19] <seb128> jdstrand, well I guess nothing is going to restart telepathy-missing-control?
[20:19] <jdstrand> 1:5.13.1-0ubuntu3
[20:19] <Ursinha_> jdstrand, that's the one I have
[20:19] <seb128> Ursinha_, did you reboot?
[20:19] <seb128> Ursinha_, do you have any error in dmesg?
[20:20] <jdstrand> Ursinha_: you are seeing apparmor denials after upgrading to ubuntu3?
[20:20] <Ursinha_> seb128, no, I ran the aa-complain command than restarted apparmor
[20:20] <Ursinha_> and it worked
[20:20] <Ursinha_> *then
[20:20] <jdstrand> well, yes, you disabled the profile
[20:20] <seb128> that didn't restart apparmor, it disabled the protection
[20:20] <Ursinha> seb128, I restarted apparmor -> sudo /etc/init.d/apparmor reload
[20:20] <Ursinha> after disabling the profile
[20:20] <jdstrand> you don't want to do that either
[20:21] <jdstrand> that will unload and load all the profiles and anything running won't be confined
[20:21] <jdstrand> the packaging handles reloading the profile
[20:21] <jdstrand> but no matter
[20:21] <jdstrand> let's clean slate this
[20:22] <Ursinha> jdstrand, I'm currently on a middle of a script run and will reboot as soon as I can, if still worthy testing
[20:22] <jdstrand> Ursinha: can you 'aa-enforce /etc/apparmor.d/usr.lib.telepathy', then log out and back in?
[20:22] <Ursinha> not right now, but will be able in about 10 minutes
[20:23] <jdstrand> well, I think it is maybe the errors were seen, then there was an update, then other stuff happened, and we don't know what is happening now
[20:23] <jdstrand> that's fine
[20:23] <Ursinha> jdstrand, in case that doesn't work, what's the procedure?
[20:23] <bcurtiswx> im guessing the unity sidebar issue is known?
[20:23] <jdstrand> Ursinha: file a bug with 'ubuntu-bug telepathy-mission-control-5'
[20:24] <Ursinha> great
[20:24] <jdstrand> Ursinha: then feel free to aa-complain it
[20:24] <Ursinha> thanks jdstrand
[20:24] <Ursinha> okay
[20:24] <jdstrand> (as a work around)
[20:24] <Ursinha> I'll add in that bug the suggested workaround
[20:24] <bcurtiswx> My unity sidebar is set to autohide, now it's just not showing when i mouse over there
[20:24] <s9iper1> ursinha need to file another bug ?
[20:24] <jdstrand> s9iper1: we don't know yet
[20:24] <Ursinha> s9iper1, not for now, we need to confirm the package doesn't fix this one first
[20:24] <Ursinha> thanks jdstrand, seb128 and s9iper1
[20:25] <s9iper1> yw but by the way thanks for this fast action
[20:25] <bcurtiswx> and there's two online accounts in my settings
[20:25] <jbicha> bcurtiswx: there's a brand new Unity in -proposed
[20:26] <bcurtiswx> jbicha, it's enabled.. so im guessing i'm using it ?
[20:27] <bcurtiswx> 6.6.0-0ubuntu3
[20:27] <seb128> bcurtiswx, using nvidia?
[20:27] <bcurtiswx> seb128, yes
[20:27] <seb128> bcurtiswx, bug #1057000
[20:27] <jbicha> bcurtiswx: that's not the latest, remember to log out and log in after
[20:27] <bcurtiswx> jbicha, i restarted :)
[20:27] <seb128> https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/1057000 ?
 Launchpad bug 1057000 in unity (Ubuntu) "[Ubuntu 12.04.1/12.10] nVidia drivers 304.51 prevent autohidden Unity launcher from revealing" [High,Confirmed]
[20:28] <bcurtiswx> seb128, thankfully we have the super button ;)
[20:29] <jdstrand> seb128: fyi, empathy works fine here with the latest updates and no denials. I'm quite sure the fix is good enough, but we'll see
[20:29] <kenvandine> jdstrand, i am testing here too
[20:29] <kenvandine> gotta suck down some updates here
[20:29] <seb128> jdstrand, thanks, we got confused by the fact that the update wouldn't apply without a session restart
[20:29] <bcurtiswx> jdstrand, i have had issues with google talk not connecting at first with some "offline set" error
[20:29] <seb128> jdstrand, sorry for the noise
[20:31] <bcurtiswx> want another tester?
[20:32] <jdstrand> fyi, I did not do a session restart :)
[20:32] <bcurtiswx> seb128, can you turn off autohide temporarily.. i don't see it anymore
[20:32] <seb128> bcurtiswx, it's in system settings -> appareance
[20:32] <jdstrand> but we don't really know the timing and a session restart will definitely help clear up everything
[20:33] <seb128> bcurtiswx, behaviour tab
[20:34] <bcurtiswx> where can i paste pictures?
[20:34] <bcurtiswx> i always forget :-\
[20:36] <bcurtiswx> seb128, http://imagebin.org/230918
[20:37] <seb128> bcurtiswx, echo $XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP
[20:37] <bcurtiswx> seb128, blank
[20:37] <seb128> XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP=Unity gnome-control-center background
[20:37] <seb128> is that different?
[20:38] <bcurtiswx> seb128, no
[20:39] <seb128> dpkg -l | grep gnome-control-center
[20:39] <bcurtiswx> ii  gnome-control-center                      1:3.4.2-0ubuntu18
[20:41] <seb128> :-(
[20:41] <seb128> bcurtiswx, not sure why it doesn't work for you...
[20:41] <seb128> bcurtiswx, I guess you can change it in ccsm then
[20:42] <bcurtiswx> lemme try one thing
[20:43] <bcurtiswx> logout/in did it. <shrugs> thanks seb128
[20:43] <bcurtiswx> i had rebooted just before this issue
[20:43] <jbicha> bcurtiswx: are you using Unity or lightdm?
[20:43] <bcurtiswx> unity
[20:43] <jbicha> sorry, are you using lightdm or gdm?
[20:43] <bcurtiswx> umm
[20:44] <seb128> jbicha, well "XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP=Unity gnome-control-center background" should set the environment variable needed
[20:44] <bcurtiswx> lightdm
[20:44] <bcurtiswx> well, at least my which gdm didn't work
[20:46] <kenvandine> jdstrand, confirmed after update and reboot telepathy-gabble is working fine
[20:48] <jdstrand> great, thanks
[20:54] <s9iper1> kenvandine :its working fine than what is the problem with my system
[20:54] <kenvandine> s9iper1, dunno... did you reboot?
[20:54] <kenvandine> that fixed it here
[20:55] <s9iper1> yes i reboted right after the update
[20:55] <s9iper1> ok i shutdown and reboot again
[20:55] <s9iper1> hang onm
[20:55] <s9iper1> on
[20:58] <s9iper1> kenvandine: i rebooted
[20:58] <s9iper1> but empathy not connecting
[20:58] <s9iper1> sjdstrand
[20:59] <s9iper1> jdstrand:
[20:59] <seb128> s9iper1, dpkg -l | grep telepathy-mission-control-5
[20:59] <s9iper1> seb128:telepathy-mission-control-5                 1:5.13.1-0ubuntu2                         i386         management daemon for Telepathy real-time communication framework
[20:59] <seb128> you need 0ubuntu3
[20:59] <seb128> update
[21:00] <s9iper1> how its not showing any update
[21:00] <s9iper1> whats your mirror ?
[21:00] <s9iper1> main or any else ?
[21:11] <lamalex> guy guys. X is really really really unstable for me all of a sudden, on a fresh install of Q
[21:12] <lamalex> nouveau has horrible memory leaks that cause my system to grind to a halt, x restarts itself randomly and returns me to lightdm greeter
[21:12] <seb128> what sort of unstable?
[21:12] <lamalex> i tried
[21:12] <lamalex> i tried the proprietary driver, but it fails to even turn on my screen after the kernel is loaded
[21:12] <seb128> s9iper1, the main archiv
[21:13] <s9iper1> seb128: yeah i am running update thanks :)
[21:18] <lamalex> seb128, ^
[21:18] <Sweetsha1k> lamalex: Its just that you do not appreciate the awesome work robert_ancell did with lightdm enough, so nouveau gives you decent hints ....
[21:18] <lamalex> Sweetsha1k, my lightdm face tattoo isn't enough?
[21:18] <lamalex> jeeze
[21:19] <seb128> lamalex, check with mlankhorst when he's online for nouveau, or maybe RAOF
[21:19] <lamalex> i guess ill have plastic surgery to have my face changed into a replica of the lightdm greeter
[21:19] <Sweetsha1k> lamalex: hmmmm, same here. kernel update on oneiric around ~January 2012 broke propritary nvidia for me.
[21:19] <Sweetsha1k> lamalex: that would help.
[21:20] <mlankhorst> seb128: nouveau is in a bad shape :(
[21:20] <mlankhorst> might have luck with drm-next
[21:24] <s9iper1> seb128:fixed thanks :)
[21:25] <seb128> s9iper1, great
[21:25] <seb128> mlankhorst, hum, k
[21:26] <seb128> jdstrand, ^ you got another confirmation that the telepathy fix works ;-)
[21:27] <mterry> robert_ancell, were you going to make a release of lightdm?  There are some fixes in its trunk, right?
[21:27] <robert_ancell> mterry, yep was going to do that today
[21:28] <mterry> robert_ancell, cool
[21:30] <seb128> robert_ancell, hey, how are you?
[21:30] <robert_ancell> seb128, hey, did you have a good break?
[21:30] <seb128> robert_ancell, I did, it's was almost hard to get back to work this time ;-)
[21:31] <robert_ancell> seb128, you seemed to come back way faster than I expected!
[21:31] <seb128> I took almost 3 weeks and was good at not connecting during those
[21:32] <robert_ancell> yeah, I thought they were sneaky mid-holiday GNOME updates
[21:54]  * cyphermox bbl --> dinner
[22:05] <lamalex> mlankhorst, shold i try installing drm-next?
[22:06]  * lamalex guesses that is a PPA/
[22:06] <mlankhorst> lamalex: no its just the drm linux kernel git tree
[22:07] <lamalex> ah
[22:11] <bryceh> wb robert_ancell
[22:11] <robert_ancell> wb... ?
[22:11] <bryceh> "welcome back"!
[22:12] <robert_ancell> I haven't gone anywhere!
[22:12] <bryceh> robert_ancell, oh?  well welcome front then :-)


[19:06] <barry> archive admins: apt-xapian-index 0.47ubuntu2 is depwait in proposed but the package its waiting on, xapian1.3-bindings, was MIR approved in LP: #1519887.  that (and clicking on retry button) don't seem to be enough to pull python3-xapian1.3 in to main to build a-x-i.  is there something you or i can/need to do to make this work?
[19:27] <infinity> barry: I can fix.
[19:32] <barry> infinity: rock on.  thanks
[19:34] <infinity> barry: Fixed, pending half an hour or so of computers doing computery things.
[19:35] <barry> infinity: thanks!
[19:49] <flexiondotorg> infinity, Yo
[20:30] <flexiondotorg> infinity, Could you update ubuntu-mate-meta for me please?
[20:47] <cyphermox> infinity: want to review my tasksel merge? I think it should go fairly well now, just need to check with our point-release tasksel configs if any
[21:48] <barry> infinity: could you promote xapian1.3-core also please? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xapian1.3-core/+bug/1519890
[23:33] <teward> urgh long interface name is *long*
[23:33] <teward> oops sorry that was to go to -quality
[23:33]  * teward hates IRC sometimes
[23:37] <michi> robru: Something has gone horribly wrong…
[23:37] <robru> michi: hm?
[23:37] <robru> michi: what page?
[23:38] <michi> https://requests.ci-train.ubuntu.com/#/create  I love the train animation… Error 500
[23:38] <robru> michi: it works for me, try reloading? we just did a big rollout so it's possible you have a cached page or something
[23:39] <robru> even though there's code that force-reloads if it detects a stale page...
[23:39] <michi> OK. Unfortunately, reloading wiped the form contents.
[23:39] <michi> Give me a few minutes.
[23:39] <robru> michi: oops, sorry
[23:39] <robru> michi: oh you mean you got the error when you went to create the ticket?
[23:39] <michi> Yes
[23:39] <robru> michi: I just loaded the form fine, didn't try to crate
[23:40] <robru> michi: ok let me check some logs, one sec
[23:41] <robru> oh god
[23:41] <robru> michi: apparently we've lost write access to the db
[23:41] <robru> michi: naturally everything worked perfectly in staging
[23:43] <michi> robru: Well, that’s what I would call something has gone horribly wrong :)
[23:43] <michi> Can you ping me please once it’s up again?
[23:43] <robru> michi: I've escalated to webops, who is on lunch
[23:43] <robru> michi: yes, will do
[23:43] <michi> Thanks!


[15:00] <mhall119> o/
[15:01] <mhall119> we'll be starting momentarily
[15:02] <weeleejo> ? video
[15:03] <popey> o/
[15:05] <mhall119> if you have any questions, ask them here starting with QUESTION
[15:05] <davmor2> http://giphy.com/gifs/hello-hi-dzaUX7CAG0Ihi
[15:05] <mhall119> the video should be live now
[15:05] <weeleejo> QUESTION: if problem with ubuntu phone where to call or send email?
[15:05] <kloinka> All good here in Aus!
[15:06] <dragon77> hi
[15:07] <weeleejo> QUESTION: is rc better then stable? why are many people use rc?
[15:12] <weeleejo> QUESTION: where can buy that phone mx5? and how long until recive
[15:13] <user21> QUESTION: Any news regarding spotify support?
[15:14] <weeleejo> QUESTION: can install gimp snap?
[15:14] <weeleejo> QUESTION: is gimp snap better then deb snap?
[15:15] <kloinka> QUESTION: Are Snaps a Linux equivalent of Windows Portable Apps?
[15:18] <weeleejo> QUESTION: witch upstream package snaps? examples?
[15:22] <ChloeWOlfieGirl> QUESTION: has anyone asked about HUD and the messaging framework, if not HUD and messanging framework?
[15:22] <mhall119> ChloeWOlfieGirl: :)
[15:23] <ChloeWOlfieGirl> (I thought ubuntu Q&A was in half an hour, then remembered that my calander was off time)
[15:24] <ChloeWOlfieGirl> QUESTION: What are you favourite choclate bars or biscuits?
[15:25] <ChloeWOlfieGirl> QUESTION: Hows the Pro 5, what are your biggest gripes with it?
[15:28] <popey> http://www.joybuy.com/1104324.html
[15:29] <sebsebseb> QUESTION: I nearly forgot about this for today, would eitehr of you had missed me, if I hadn't turned up or not, and why :d
[15:30] <sebsebseb> QUESTION: What did you two get up to in Texas last week?
[15:31] <ChloeWOlfieGirl> QUESTION: Hows USB-C? Hows living in the future?
[15:32] <sebsebseb> QUESTION: Is ChloeWOlfieGirl your biggest fan?
[15:32] <ChloeWOlfieGirl> Not part of the hangouts, but yes :3
[15:32] <sebsebseb> ChloeWOlfieGirl: h eh why :d ?
[15:33] <LarreaMikel_> You should be careful, because of the taxes, when buying the Pro 5...
[15:33] <ChloeWOlfieGirl> Soundcloud :3
[15:33] <sebsebseb> LarreaMikel_: th cutsoms you mean or?
[15:33] <ChloeWOlfieGirl> but we have a scope for that
[15:33] <mhall119> sebsebseb: you mean you're not our #1 fan?
[15:33] <sebsebseb> mhall119: nope definetly not
[15:34] <sebsebseb> LarreaMikel_: as a side thing looks like my shipping for the Nexdock (that I crowd funded the other month),  will be high,  and then customs on top of that I Guess hmm
[15:34] <bittin_> Watching a bit before the Mozilla Sweden Community i am hosting in around 30 minutes :)
[15:34] <sebsebseb> bittin_: Mozilla Svergie oh
[15:35] <sebsebseb> bittin_ what's that, I am half Swedish so
[15:35] <sebsebseb> kgunn_: this will finnish in about 30 minutes 25 even
[15:35] <bittin_> sebsebseb: the people translating Firefox into Swedish and doing other Community events and stuff for Mozilla in Sweden :)
[15:35] <sebsebseb> kgunn_: there will be a hang out ?
[15:35] <sebsebseb> or something?
[15:35] <bittin_> https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/contact/communities/sweden/
[15:36] <bittin_> sebsebseb: we are having our irc meeting in #mozilla.se @ irc.mozilla.org in around 20mins :p
[15:36] <ChloeWOlfieGirl> QUESTION: How much better will OTA 12 be over OTA 11, and also how much better will OTA13 be?
[15:36] <sebsebseb> bittin_: oh right just a IRC meeting
[15:36] <ChloeWOlfieGirl> QUESTION: Where do you think Ubuntu Phone will be by OTA 15?
[15:36] <LarreaMikel_> sebsebseb: In spain the VAT, is up to 68€. And then DHL tries to charge you with other 50€ for doing the custom clearances...
[15:36] <sebsebseb> bittin_:  not been on that network for ages, can people actusally register their names on there now?
[15:37] <sebsebseb> LarreaMikel_: yeah I crowd funded this Nexdock thing, which is interesting :)
[15:37] <sebsebseb> LarreaMikel_: can conect Ubuntu devices to that too :d
[15:37] <bittin_> sebsebseb: yeah and yeah
[15:37] <bittin_> its directly after this :P
[15:38] <sebsebseb> LarreaMikel_: however if it's about 71 dollars to send it from Singapore to the USA, then it will be something like that to the UK as well hmm,  plus customess on top of that.  so I guess sending it here may even cost about the same as what I actually paid for the thing
[15:38] <sebsebseb> LarreaMikel_: I got a email about shipping yestesrday
[15:38] <ChloeWOlfieGirl> QUESTION: WIll snaps be easy to implement into other distros?
[15:38] <dragon77> QUESTION:I am gonna ask this potentially hot question, so here it goes, will mir and wayland be able to coexist peacefully on a single machine and how will they do that?
[15:38] <ChloeWOlfieGirl> QUESTION: When will we see the new notifications?
[15:38] <sebsebseb> bittin_: can register name you mean?
[15:39] <bittin_> sebsebseb: yes to irc meeting and nickserv
[15:39] <sebsebseb> ChloeWOlfieGirl: oh your from ENgland as well where abouts?
[15:39] <ChloeWOlfieGirl> <3
[15:39] <ChloeWOlfieGirl> sebsebseb yeah, manchester
[15:39] <sebsebseb> bittin_: ok I may come on over then,  could be vagualy interesting as a half Sweed
[15:39] <ChloeWOlfieGirl> Popey: +1 they are amazing
[15:40] <bittin_> sebsebseb: your welcome too if you feel like it :)
[15:40] <sebsebseb> bittin_: plus I can practice some Swedish reading again if I do that :d
[15:40] <sebsebseb> assumingn it's in Swedish
[15:40] <bittin_> its usally in English however :P
[15:40] <bittin_> heh
[15:40]  * sebsebseb has some Vegan Chocoalte that hasn't tried yet!
[15:40]  * sebsebseb went to a big Vegan event at the weekend so
[15:41] <dragon77> QUESTION: Has Valve shown any interest in snaps?
[15:42] <ChloeWOlfieGirl> Gotta exadurate that Tea :P
[15:42] <sebsebseb> QUESTION: How big is the Meizu Pro 5 really, apparently it's so big, but is it really? can it go nicely in a pocket or not?
[15:43] <ChloeWOlfieGirl> QUESTION: Can we see a full review of the phone by Alan pope, with pan shots and explosions?
[15:43] <sebsebseb> mhall119: I had my question before that one to
[15:44] <dragon77> what are the new phones? sorry I missed the start of the video.
[15:44] <sebsebseb> dragon77: popey has a Meizu Pro 5 Ubuntu now
[15:46] <LarreaMikel_> QUESTION: popey, have you changed the pro 5 image channel?
[15:46] <sebsebseb> QUESTION:  Microsoft love open source,  well apparently, do they, you think so going by your Texas experience for example or not?
[15:47] <ChloeWOlfieGirl> QUESTION: is the future worth the price of USB-C?
[15:48] <bittin_> oh well i am off too another meeting now cya around :)
[15:48] <sebsebseb> QUESTION: Do either of you use mostly exclusively Ubuntu Touch now?  hardly ever other things like Android or Ios, if at all really?  Mark uses alternatives a bit it seems, so I wonder
[15:49] <dragon77> QUESTION: When will we have a CLI command to update all installed snaps?
[15:49] <ChloeWOlfieGirl> QUESTION: Will we have the HUD by OTA 15? ;P
[15:49] <sebsebseb> QUESTION:  Does popey have a BQ E5 HD or not? seems he has all the Ubuntu devices so far now, except for one of the two MD's if counting those as seperate devices
[15:49] <sebsebseb> M10's above
[15:49] <sebsebseb> typo
[15:50] <ChloeWOlfieGirl> QUESTION: New device anouncements on this Q&A?
[15:50] <vitimiti> Ah, I'm back, finally
[15:51] <sebsebseb> QUESTION: Will it be easy to dual boot Ubuntu in the futuer possibly on certina devices with Android or FirefoxOS maybe even or well something else for the other one, maybe even Windows?
[15:53] <sebsebseb> QUESTION: How did your Unity 8 for 10 days on the desktop challenge go mhall119  I also gave a version of it a try on the computer and well WOW interesting :)
[15:54] <ChloeWOlfieGirl> mhall119: theres a lot of things that canonical want to add to notifications. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xDSZ_dnAMAlhgFnnyjJEibaITXjVLp1_pnj_tATNm9I/edit#heading=h.aarksr1t9zhb
[15:54] <ChloeWOlfieGirl> QUESTION: is Unity8 better then windows 8?
[15:55] <ChloeWOlfieGirl> QUESTION: have you had a good day so far?
[15:55] <ChloeWOlfieGirl> QUESTION: Got any fun plans for the week end? :3
[15:56] <ChloeWOlfieGirl> +1
[15:59] <LarreaMikel_> popey, the image channel you are in is: ubuntu-touch/rc-proposed/meizu.en ??
[15:59] <sebsebseb> QUESTION: If there's time, what happended to Ubuntu Light?  read something on omgubuntu yesterday about that
[16:00] <popey> ubuntu-touch/rc-proposed/meizu.en
[16:00] <Switches> mhall119: The answer to that is "ANYTHING" is better than Windows 8 lol
[16:00] <ChloeWOlfieGirl> windows 8 made me move to Ubuntu :3
[16:00] <LarreaMikel_> popey , Thanks!
[16:00] <ChloeWOlfieGirl> Thanks guys :3
[16:01] <Switches> Thanks guys! great Q&A :)
[16:01] <LarreaMikel_> bye guys!
[16:01] <sebsebseb> oh Switches is here
[16:01] <Switches> Yep
[16:01] <popey> thanks everyone
[16:01] <popey> great questions as always
[16:01] <mhall119> thanks everyone for all the questions
[16:01] <sebsebseb> who works? heh, @ ChloeWOlfieGirl Switches me heh h eh
[16:01] <vitimiti> Nice talk
[16:01] <sebsebseb> 4 is early for most people
[16:02] <sebsebseb> for this kind of thing
[20:24] <Esteban_> Leaving - I have to go back to work
[20:24] <Esteban_> I do love the show and will arrange to work so I can view future shows.


[15:59] <kees> so, interesting thing I noticed with 3.16: unix sockets now appear to be "vulnerable" to an old socket issue where write(); close(); may lead to losing the last write's data.
[16:00] <kees> so clients talking to servers that send data and immediately hang up may not see the entire data written. (this manifested for me in cyrus-sasl2)
[16:28] <kees> e.g. https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=777349


[05:02] <factor> Did'nt know this existed until now.
[05:02] <factor> Can I use git clone inside a runcmd ?
[05:03] <factor> and use said repo
[13:12] <nacc> is it expected that 'selinux_user' in a cloud config on ubuntu would cause an exception ("useradd: -Z requires SELinux enabled kernel")
[13:14] <Odd_Bloke> factor: o/ There shouldn't be any problem doing that; are you seeing issues?
[13:15] <Odd_Bloke> nacc: \o I'm not sure, TBH, but a bug would be appreciated!
[13:16] <nacc> Odd_Bloke: ack will get it filed
[13:16] <Odd_Bloke> Thanks!
[13:28] <Odd_Bloke> rharper: Do you know why cloud-init doesn't emit its logs to the journal?  When trying to debug interactions between multiple units, it's quite annoying to have to keep two log files open and mentally interleave them.
[13:34] <Odd_Bloke> rharper: I filed https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cloud-init/+bug/1838032, so we can carry out the conversation there.
[14:06] <rharper> Odd_Bloke: it does log to the journal... journalctl -u cloud-init-local.service  ?
[14:07]  * rharper reads bug
[14:14] <Odd_Bloke> rharper: Clarifying in there now.#
[14:15] <rharper> Odd_Bloke: I understand now
[14:15] <rharper> and we can discuss the defaults in upstream, in ubuntu, and I've added a comment to make a one line config change to get what you want
[14:16] <rharper> the latter which is immediately useful to you
[14:16] <Odd_Bloke> rharper: Ack, thanks; I've clarified that I mean _all_ logs.
 Thanks for the response. Going to test it , have not yet. So I can git a puppet script to run as part of cloud-init.
[15:20] <Odd_Bloke> factor: You can definitely `git clone` the puppet script from a runcmd, yes.  And if you're asking about using the puppet cloud-init module, then that runs after runcmd so whatever you do should be on the system by the time it runs.
[15:24] <factor> Odd_Bloke, thanks
[16:17] <Odd_Bloke> rharper: So it looks like for that Azure growpart bug the udev event is missing information: https://bugs.launchpad.net/cloud-init/+bug/1834875/comments/24
[16:17] <Odd_Bloke> rharper: Do you have any suggestions as to where I should go looking next?
[16:18] <rharper> yes, so if you look at growpart, you can see what it's doing with sgdisk,
[16:18] <rharper> which is updating the table and setting values
[16:19] <rharper> it looks like whatever is watching the disk (systemd) sees the write/close on the device, and fires an uevent where the partition data isn't present,
[16:20] <rharper> Odd_Bloke: look at growpart at line 476
[16:20] <rharper> Odd_Bloke: so I wonder if the version of sgdisk matters here
[16:21] <rharper> it
[16:21] <rharper> is effecitvely deleted pt table, re writing it, then calling partx --update
[16:22] <rharper> to which, I think one *could* add a udevadm settle --exit-if-exists /path/to/partition
[16:23] <rharper> but I thought your change added a settle right before the check on new size value;
[16:24] <Odd_Bloke> So --exit-if-exists only short-circuits the regular behaviour, AIUI.
[16:25] <rharper> if update was triggered (partx --update) then a settle after that certainly should have already re-read pt table
[16:25] <Odd_Bloke> So if the queue is empty, it won't _wait_ for that file.
[16:25] <rharper> Odd_Bloke: right; it just means to not wait the default 120 seconds if the path already exists
[16:25] <rharper> it checks if it exists, then checks if the queue has anything in it
[16:26] <rharper> and then will wait up to 120 seconds for queue to empty
[16:26] <Odd_Bloke> Right, which means `udevadm settle` will do whatever it would do; and it didn't address the issue.  That said, I don't think tobijk used my patched cloud-init for these latest tests.
[16:26] <rharper> effectively, the sgdisk write new table info, partx --update will relese the syscall to re-read partition table on the disk
[16:27] <rharper> if we then call settle; the updated pt will generate change events
[16:27] <rharper> and *those* should have the updated partition data in the event
[16:27] <Odd_Bloke> Why would settle cause more events to be generated?
[16:27] <rharper> otherwise I don't see why a change event would occur;  though when the partition is _deleted_ via sgdisk command, that will create a change event
[16:27] <rharper> settle won't cause any events
[16:27] <rharper> only sgdisk command will generate events
[16:28] <rharper> the partx --update is a kick to ask the kernel to reread the partition table data (and then the kernel may emit update events if the table has changed since it last read it)
[16:29] <rharper> so, a settle after those two commands have run, should ensure that once a CHANGE event for the updated ptable is emitted, and rules have run, that the symlink would be present
[16:30] <rharper> it's not clear to me if the captured change event you;'re seeing is from when sgdisk is "clearing things out" or after it's written the new data and called partx --update
[16:30] <rharper> Odd_Bloke: I can hangout if you want
[16:33] <Odd_Bloke> On both failing and succeeding instances, we see the same number of sda1 udev events: one add when the system comes up, one change when we resize, and one change later in boot (I think when systemd is reloaded?).  After that second "change", both systems are in a good state.
[16:34] <Odd_Bloke> The order in which the sda{1,14,15} udev events are logged is different between the two systems; sda1 is first on the failing system, and last on the good system.
[16:35] <Odd_Bloke> So my theory is that the events are prompted by the clear-out, and we're then racing against the partition table being rewritten.
[16:35] <rharper> and the timing of the second change from passing to failing ? timestamp wise; does this occur before or after the read ?
[16:35] <Odd_Bloke> In both cases the second change is 20-30s after the resize has happened.
[16:35] <rharper> oh my
[16:36] <rharper> so, let's test this if we can'  in the check_size path; invoke 'partx ---update' or blockdev --rereadpt /dev/sda;  then udevadm settle
[16:36] <rharper> this will *force* a reread of the table before we check size
[16:36] <rharper> and settle should enforce rules complete if update detected a table change
[16:37] <rharper> if that works, then it's likely that the partx --update after sgdisk returns isn't effictive due to the processing of the change of removal
[16:39] <Odd_Bloke> As an aside, those second change events come after "systemd[1]: Reloading."
[16:53] <chillysurfer> it's not jumping out at me by looking at bddeb, but is there a way to tell the build to dump debs and other distribution artifacts in a `dist` dir?
[16:53] <chillysurfer> i see that it is gitignored so wondering if i'm just not seeing something
[16:54] <Odd_Bloke> rharper: Further confirmation that we aren't seeing the event due to the partx command; the growpart call specifies a single partition, and we're seeing events for all partitions.
[16:56] <Odd_Bloke> rharper: I'm heading to lunch; could you take a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/cloud-init/+bug/1834875/comments/25 and let me know if that matches your understanding?
[17:22] <rharper> Odd_Bloke: that looks right;  reading partx source-code (https://github.com/karelzak/util-linux/blob/master/disk-utils/partx.c) I wonder if what we really want instead of partx --update /dev/sda 1 ; is just blockdev --rereadpt /dev/sda ;
[17:23] <rharper> partx --update looks like it does more than just asking the kernel to reread the partition table on the disk.
[17:28] <Odd_Bloke> rharper: When I tried a `sudo blockdev --rereadpt /dev/sda` on a running system, I get "blockdev: ioctl error on BLKRRPART: Device or resource busy"
[17:28] <Odd_Bloke> So I don't know if we _can_ use that.
[17:28] <rharper> right
[17:29] <rharper> that's why they used partx; uses a different syscall
[17:30] <rharper> Odd_Bloke: I think it would be interesting to see partx --show /dev/sda  ; before the --update and after
[17:30] <Odd_Bloke> OK, will include that.
[17:53] <Odd_Bloke> chillysurfer: Sorry, skipped over your question before.  If I had to guess, I think dist/ is ignored for Python packaging reasons, not because that's where we expect deb/rpm packages to end up.
[17:53] <Odd_Bloke> chillysurfer: I think adding an option for output location would probably be a reasonable proposal, though, defaulting to the current behaviour.
[17:55] <chillysurfer> Odd_Bloke: yep that makes sense. i have a one-liner git and xargs command that just deletes those untracked files anyways
[17:55] <chillysurfer> so not a huge deal (as long as the build files are my only untracked ones)
[18:27] <bitfehler> i was wondering - is there any "official" definition of what constitutes a variant "other" in the cloud.cfg template?
[18:28] <bitfehler> there are several uses like `{% if variant in ["ubuntu", "unknown", "debian"] %}` or even `{% if variant in ["ubuntu", "unknown"] %}`
[18:28] <bitfehler> e.g. enabling the apt-related modules
[18:29] <bitfehler> which seems odd, i figured "other" would be a distro... well, _other_ than the ones that have specific values
[18:30] <Odd_Bloke> Ubuntu and Debian aren't the only distros that use debs (e.g. Mint).
[18:33] <bitfehler> true, but still seems a far-reaching assumption? also, i though mint was in the list as well?
[18:33] <bitfehler> ah, not quite, but it seems mint is mapped to ubuntu already
[18:34] <bitfehler> system_info() has something like
[18:34] <bitfehler>         elif linux_dist in ('ubuntu', 'linuxmint', 'mint'):
[18:34] <bitfehler>             var = 'ubuntu'
[18:35] <Odd_Bloke> Fair enough.
[18:35] <bitfehler> i mean, i am also not even trying to prove anything, i was just wondering. the apt thing was just an example. if it really is meant to be "anything else" that's file
[18:35] <bitfehler> fine :)
[18:36] <rharper> bitfehler: no strict definition; I would say, other  is something not currently defined
[18:36] <rharper> we're opt-in here; the default being Ubuntu; and as distros and variants of a particular distro have need to deviate; those get introduced/added
[18:37] <Odd_Bloke> I guess the thinking is that if we know that we _don't_ know what distro we're on, we shouldn't remove things from the list.
[18:38] <bitfehler> interesting point :)
[18:38] <Odd_Bloke> So `{% if variant in ["ubuntu", "unknown", "debian"] %}` is more like "we shouldn't run this if we know definitively we aren't on Ubuntu or Debian"
[18:40] <bitfehler> that is good guidance for me, thanks. i guess it's clear that "other" shouldn't be anything to rely on anyways, so i am just trying to understand how to best go about supporting another distro there
[18:40] <rharper> bitfehler: is the distro a variant of existing ones? or something altogether different ?
[18:41] <Odd_Bloke> Yeah, my first reaction to that is that we should be defining this distro in cloud-init. :)
[18:41] <rharper> I think the best way to answer that is looking at the distro classes and their implementation of things like package install, and default file locations
[18:41] <bitfehler> as a fun fact, the variant of my distro (arch) as returned by system_info is actually "linux", which is not a valid input when using --distro= for ./setup.py
[18:41] <bitfehler> however, when not setting anything, that's what gets passed to the template
[18:41] <rharper> arch doesn't have an os-release file ?
[18:42] <rharper> https://gist.github.com/natefoo/814c5bf936922dad97ff
[18:42] <bitfehler> it does, and that is reflected somewhere in system_info result, but the variant is "linux"
[18:43] <rharper> the python 'dist' info just says linux then ?
[18:44] <rharper> if there is extra info in either os-release or another file then we can update util.py:get_linux_distro() to parse that bit out
[18:44] <bitfehler> no, dist is set correctly, but the variant is determined by checking for a few know values and e/t else is "linux"
[18:44] <bitfehler>     if system == "linux":
[18:44] <bitfehler>         linux_dist = info['dist'][0].lower()
[18:44] <bitfehler>         if linux_dist in ('centos', 'debian', 'fedora', 'rhel', 'suse'):
[18:44] <bitfehler>             var = linux_dist
[18:44] <bitfehler>         elif linux_dist in ('ubuntu', 'linuxmint', 'mint'):
[18:44] <bitfehler>             var = 'ubuntu'
[18:44] <bitfehler>         elif linux_dist == 'redhat':
[18:44] <bitfehler>             var = 'rhel'
[18:44] <bitfehler>         elif linux_dist in (
[18:44] <bitfehler>                 'opensuse', 'opensuse-tumbleweed', 'opensuse-leap', 'sles'):
[18:44] <bitfehler>             var = 'suse'
[18:44] <bitfehler>         else:
[18:44] <bitfehler>             var = 'linux'
[18:44] <rharper> bitfehler: we'd certaily accept a patch to help set the variant to arch
[18:45] <bitfehler> cool, can do
[18:45] <rharper> if that's found with get_linux_distro() method;
[18:45] <rharper> which it sounds like it does
[18:45] <bitfehler> totally
[18:46] <bitfehler> which leads me to my last question :) i figured it would be good to add some arch-specifics into the template generation as well then
[18:46] <rharper> for sure
[18:46] <bitfehler> and i was wondering what the approach should be there? run every module that can be reasonably expected to work on the distro?
[18:46] <rharper> and likely revist the distros value in the config modules
[18:47] <rharper> bitfehler: yeah, you can force all modules to run or you could run each one via cloud-init single --force --name
[18:47] <rharper> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Cloud-init
[18:48] <rharper> even mentions using unverified_modules
[18:50] <bitfehler> yeah, i guess it would be nice to get to the point where that is no longer neccessary. i wasn't aware that the modules declare this as well, thanks for pointing that out
[18:51] <bitfehler> cool, thanks a lot for all that, i'll send a few patches your way soon :)


[10:02] <jphilips> bluesabre: any reason why alt+f8 is set to sticky rather than default of window resizing - https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/blob/master/etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/xfce4/xfconf/xfce-perchannel-xml/xfce4-keyboard-shortcuts.xml#L57
[10:04] <brainwash> see https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/67483209e77be1351e27ad705be27041d244704b
[10:04] <ubot3> Commit 6748320 in Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings "etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/xfce4/xfconf/…/xfce4-keyboard-shortcuts.xml: update"
[11:17] <jphilips> thanks brainwash. wonder what the reasoning behind that was
[11:20] <bluesabre> Shew, that one's before my time :)
[11:35] <brainwash> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Precise/DefaultShortcutKeys
[11:58] <jphilips> says that ochosi and knome were assigned to it
[13:39] <bluesabre> FYI for the folks here that don't follow me on social media, and it's awkward, but I'm splitting my time up further and putting some more focus into elementary development. https://bluesabre.org/2021/02/28/and-now-for-something-completely-different/
[13:40] <JackFrost> Uh oh. :3
[13:43] <jphilips> just finished reading it. branching out is good. :D
[13:44] <jphilips> hope the new apps you develop for elementary also wind up in xfce ;)
[15:01] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: mousepad 0.5.3 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-mousepad-0-5-3-released-tp59891.html (by Gaël Bonithon-2)
[21:57] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-time-out-plugin 1.1.2 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-time-out-plugin-1-1-2-released-tp59893.html (by Andre Miranda)