[15:03]  * slangasek waves
[15:03] <slangasek> #startmeeting
[15:03] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Jun  5 15:03:37 2013 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
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[15:05] <slangasek> [TOPIC] lightning round
[15:05] <slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh ev bdmurray slangasek cjwatson xnox stokachu)
[15:05] <slangasek> cjwatson xnox barry stokachu jodh doko ev stgraber slangasek bdmurray
[15:05]  * slangasek waves the starting flag
[15:05] <ev> phew
[15:05] <cjwatson> Investigation of delta updates for click packages.  Playing with debdelta, which looks promising, including working on a Python 3 port.
[15:05] <cjwatson> Refactored click-package into the pattern of a single master command with subcommands (will land shortly).
[15:05] <cjwatson> Lots of merges/syncs, including giant debhelper merge.  automake1.13 was some fun due to a buildd still running ext3.  Helped to fix firefox on powerpc.
[15:05] <cjwatson> Finished several transitions (ghc, libgd, net-snmp, bits of ocaml).
[15:05] <cjwatson> Sorted out some confusion with ubuntu-touch-meta.
[15:05] <cjwatson> Several Debian NMUs / QA uploads to try to reduce deltas when I'm bored of merging things.
[15:05] <cjwatson> Proposed Debconf BOF on Ubuntu daily quality and how it overlaps with Debian's CUT project.
[15:05] <cjwatson> Next week: really, really get autopkgtest/proposed-migration integration going.
[15:05] <cjwatson> ..
[15:06] <cjwatson> (and by "promising" I think I mean "makes my eyes bleed but seems to fill the right slot")
[15:07] <xnox> please skip me. not ready yet.
[15:07] <barry> LP: #1185170, python-gnupg 0.3.3-0ubuntu1 and 0.3.4-0ubuntu1
[15:07] <barry> dmb meeting
[15:08] <barry> emacs 24.3 upgrade (yay! but it broke a few minor things that had to be tracked down)
[15:08] <barry> image based upgrades: gpg regime (blacklists, api refactoring, keyring download/verification/unpacking)  lp:~barry/+junk/gpg for now
[15:08] <barry> todo: continue working on the gpg spec
[15:08] <barry> done
[15:08] <xnox> barry: sorry barry about emacs =)
[15:08] <barry> xnox: no, no, no... *thank* you.  the upgrade fixed more bugs than it caused :)
[15:10] <slangasek> no stokachu today (at a sprint AIUI)
[15:10] <slangasek> jodh:
[15:10] <jodh> * foundations-1305-upstart-app-launching
[15:10] <jodh>   - Reworked lp:~jamesodhunt/upstart/libupstart to use an unpacked
[15:10] <jodh>     ABI dump.
[15:10] <jodh>   - Lots of rework on lp:~jamesodhunt/upstart/allow-multiple-cmdline-confdirs
[15:10] <jodh>     to improve test code-sharing and make writing new functional tests easier.
[15:10] <jodh>   - Raised MP for lp:~jamesodhunt/upstart/bug-1159895.
[15:10] <jodh> * misc:
[15:10] <jodh>   - LPC13 planning.
[15:10] <jodh> * TODO:
[15:10] <jodh>   - Ideally get lp:~jamesodhunt/upstart/serialise-remaining-objects merged
[15:10] <jodh>     upstream today.
[15:11] <jodh>   - Go on holiday (from tomorrow, back on 20th).
[15:11] <jodh> ʚ
[15:11] <doko> - android cross toolchain uploaded to PPA
[15:11] <doko> - GCC 4.8.1 update, now updating cross compilers
[15:11] <doko> - Mon and Tue two days off
[15:11] <doko> (done)
[15:12] <slangasek> ev:
[15:12] <ev> drats
[15:12] <ev> - https://wiki.canonical.com/Cassandra
[15:12] <ev> - Rewrote and sent the announce email for the errors.ubuntu.com NDA:
[15:12] <ev>   https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2013-May/001039.html
[15:12] <ev> - Processing quite a few NDA signatures :).
[15:12] <ev> - Investigated and resolved a problem where the NDA signature team couldn't
[15:12] <ev>   access errors.ubuntu.com - we accidentally dropped a cowboy.
[15:12] <ev> - Attended a Cassandra meetup. Trip report here:
[15:12] <ev>   https://lists.launchpad.net/canonical-tech/msg06936.html
[15:12] <slangasek> doko: do you know if ogra (or anyone) has started using the cross-toolchain yet?  I think he might be busy still with other pieces of the puzzle
[15:12] <ev> - Worked with webops to get OOPS reporting to oops.canonical.com after many
[15:12] <ev>   configuration headaches:
[15:12] <ev>   https://oops.canonical.com/reports/WHOOPSIE-PROD/
[15:12] <ev>   This means we no longer get 404s on some reports, and can scale to N wsgi
[15:12] <ev>   workers without having OOPS reports in N places.
[15:12] <ev> - Debugging why we were getting authentication failures to Swift when
[15:12] <ev>   submitting core dumps with the webops team. It looks like RED kicked in
[15:12] <ev>   because we are so behind on processing retraces (it fires on high disk usage)
[15:12] <ev>   and that somehow caused the auth failures further down the chain. Still
[15:12] <ev>   looking into this one.
[15:12] <ev> - Code review for Brian.
[15:12] <ev> - Got webops to start graphing the time to process HTTP requests on
[15:12] <ev>   daisy.ubuntu.com after discussions with Tom. We want to be able to measure
[15:12] <ev>   the performance impact with the move to Ceph, which this should let us do
[15:12] <ev>   quite well.
[15:12] <ogra> slangasek, i'm to busy with the container flip still
[15:13] <ev> - Debugging why the back population jobs were falling over. This turns out to
[15:13] <ev>   be HAProxy being a very bad idea when using pycassa:
[15:13] <ev>   https://rt.admin.canonical.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=62023
[15:13] <ev> - Working with webops to get a test Cassandra node provisioned to try
[15:13] <ev>   compression again, given learnings from the Cassandra meetup:
[15:13] <ev>   https://rt.admin.canonical.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=61877
[15:13] <ev> - Added code to provide OOPS reports on javascript exceptions in
[15:13] <ev>   errors.ubuntu.com.
[15:13] <slangasek> ogra: ok :)
[15:13] <ev> - Improved our OOPS reporting on errors in JSON API calls. We now include the
[15:13] <ev>   traceback for those.
[15:13] <ev> - Discussion with Katherine on how we can provide people like Kees access to
[15:13] <ev>   the error data for investigating security vulnerabilities.
[15:13] <ev> - Added RED support to the prodstack version of lp:daisy. Broken and in turn
[15:13] <ev>   preventing merges from landing; investigating.
[15:13] <ev> - Working with Ted to get them using recoverable problems for glib critical
[15:13] <ev>   errors.
[15:13] <ogra> slangasek, i plan to try it out for the updater-binary (most important bit for zip creation) before end of the week
[15:13] <ev> - More chatting with the server team on getting error reporting up and running.
[15:13] <ev>   Sounds like a d-i module for automatic error reporting and something in motd
[15:13] <ev>   to point at outstanding reports are good places to start, and I think we have
[15:13] <ev>   consensus. Next step will be talking with the juju team to see how we can
[15:13] <ev>   make it easy to enable from there.
[15:13] <ev> - Added metrics to support monitoring usage of errors.ubuntu.com, as laid out
[15:13] <ev>   in the NDA.
[15:13] <slangasek> ogra: great!
[15:13] <ev> More, I'm sure, but I ran out of time typing :)
[15:13] <ev> (done!)
[15:13] <doko> slangasek, no, will ask
[15:14] <doko> ahh ...
[15:14] <slangasek> ev: getting any NDA requests from people who shouldn't be given access to the data? :P
[15:14] <ev> slangasek: there's been at least two people who tried to provide an incomplete or nonexistent address. Just a reminder folks, "The Internet" is not a place we can send snail mail to.
[15:14] <ev> I've followed up and convinced them to do the right thing.
[15:15] <slangasek> pff, snail mail
[15:15] <ev> but there haven't been people who claimed to be part of some nonexistent project yet
[15:15] <ev> it's mostly been names I recognise
[15:15] <ev> and some Canonical people (I'm adding them in, in case they ever jump ship and still want access)
[15:15] <stgraber> Blueprint-related work:
[15:15] <stgraber>  - Image based updates (BLUEPRINT: foundations-1305-image-based-updates)
[15:15] <stgraber>   - Waiting on review of the GPG implementation plan, need to get the keys generated and signed after that.
[15:15] <stgraber>   - Waiting for IS to setup the image based update server.
[15:15] <stgraber>   - Update the differ to be pure python. We no longer need to unpack the tarballs for the checksuming part.
[15:15] <stgraber>   - Rebuild the test server (http://phablet.stgraber.org) to match the current version of the spec. Includes all the needed keyrings and real test tarballs.
[15:16] <stgraber>   - Added a new function, generate_version_tarball, which generates our version tarball (containing /etc/ubuntu-build)
[15:16] <stgraber>   - The testsuite now covers all the server side code.
[15:16] <stgraber> Other work:
[15:16] <stgraber>  - release/cdimage
[15:16] <stgraber>   - Quick production update of the QATracker (css update by knome)
[15:16] <stgraber>   - Wrote a script to extract flavours participating in the current milestone (to be integrated in seeded-in-ubuntu)
[15:16] <stgraber>   - Fixed broken (outdated) invoked-rc.d in ubuntu-release-upgrader
[15:16] <stgraber>  - Ubuntu touch
[15:16] <stgraber>   - Tweaked adbd to use nss to find what shell to use
[15:16] <ev> slangasek: I'm going to do a few drives for people to fill it out though. This isn't going to be a throw the mail over the wall and be done with it thing.
[15:16] <stgraber>   - Discussed the partitioning plan and fs layout for touch devices.
[15:16] <stgraber>  - Upstart
[15:16] <stgraber>   - Looked at and commented on a few merge proposals.
[15:16] <stgraber>   - Discussed SRU plan for the serialization work.
[15:16] <stgraber>   - Wrote upstart user session jobs for startkde, xfce4-session and startlxde
[15:16] <stgraber>   - Tested upstart user session on Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Lubuntu, Ubuntu Studio, Ubuntu GNOME and Edubuntu
[15:16] <stgraber>   - The plan is to switch all those sessions to run under upstart in a couple of weeks
[15:16] <slangasek> ev: ah, cool
[15:16] <stgraber>  - LXC
[15:16] <stgraber>   - Answered some questions from the QA/desktop team on using LXC for their desktop tests
[15:16] <stgraber>   - Some more autostart discussions upstream, I think we have a plan now, just need to implement it
[15:16] <stgraber>   - Some code reviews
[15:16] <stgraber>
[15:16] <stgraber> TODO:
[15:17] <stgraber>  - Finish self-rebuilds feature implementation on nusakan
[15:17] <stgraber>  - Implement some of the remaining bits for the image based update server tools
[15:17] <slangasek> ev: if you're doing drives for legal documents, you could get them to sign the CLA too while they're at it ;)
[15:17] <stgraber>  - Process some pending merges (ifupdown and resolvconf)
[15:17] <stgraber> (DONE)
[15:17] <slangasek> stgraber: image-based update server - AIUI from the ticket (and my sync call with IS), this ticket has been dispatched to the DC engineer and we should see some movement soon
[15:17] <ev> slangasek: how far up the hill do you want me to push that boulder then?
[15:18] <stgraber> slangasek: yep, I got pinged by deej yesterday, looks like we've got hardware, just need to have it setup
[15:18] <slangasek> ev: :)
[15:18] <ev> :D
[15:19] <slangasek>  * in a long-running battle with bug #1152736
[15:19] <slangasek>  * worked with stgraber to validate, upload nfs-utils merge; seem to have gotten myself comaintainer status in Debian as an unfortunate side-effect
[15:19] <slangasek>  * working with the phonedations team on the ubuntu-touch container flip:
[15:19] <slangasek>   * current model is using chrooting under userdata partition, not the read-only system partiton; would like to fix this, aiming to have the system as pure Ubuntu as possible
[15:19] <slangasek>   * questions about whether udev or ueventd should own the firmware loading
[15:20] <slangasek>  * Code review of lp:~jamesodhunt/upstart/serialise-remaining-objects
[15:20] <slangasek>  * discussions with PES about arm64 bring-up; we should be close now to being able to bring the emulated buildds online
[15:20] <slangasek>  * LPC travel sorted out
[15:20] <slangasek> (done)
[15:20] <cjwatson> slangasek: [fx: anxious noises wanting to play with the emulator]
[15:20] <slangasek> cjwatson: heh
[15:20] <doko> phonedation?
[15:20] <bdmurray> submitted apport bug LP: #1185515 regaring duplicate signature for apport-package bugs
[15:20] <bdmurray> uploaded P, Q and R SRUs for bug 1185515
[15:20] <bdmurray> P, Q, R SRU verification of bug 1185515
[15:20] <bdmurray> created a tool for checking for error buckets for duplicates of a launchpad bug
[15:20] <bdmurray> investigation into errors bug 1186215
[15:21] <slangasek> doko: the Phone Foundations team, AKA fōndations
[15:21] <bdmurray> review of phased-updates report
[15:21] <bdmurray> submitted merge proposal for errors version table sorting issue
[15:21] <bdmurray> reported bug 1186376 regarding software-properties UI for phased updates options
[15:21] <bdmurray> searched for pyc corruption bugs with error message in DpkgTerminalLog (e.g. apport-package crashes)
[15:21] <xnox> doko: ogra's team.
[15:21] <bdmurray> research into bug LP: #1175637
[15:21] <bdmurray> tested ubuntu-release-upgrader bug LP: #1181470
[15:21] <bdmurray> modified sru-review to reject packages too
[15:21] <bdmurray> emailed xubuntu-devel regarding update-notifier and auto-launch
[15:21] <bdmurray> removed update-notifier's support for choosing not to auto-launch applications
[15:21] <cjwatson> f
[15:21] <cjwatson> oops
[15:21] <bdmurray> merge, uploaded my changes to update-notifier that create and use upstart user sessions
[15:21] <infinity> slangasek: ditto on emulator anxiety. :P
[15:21] <bdmurray> patch piloting
[15:21] <cjwatson> was attempting to type fóndations to see if I prefer that spelling
[15:21] <bdmurray> ✔ done
[15:21] <xnox> * progressed with most merges (btrfs-tools left from important ones in
[15:21] <xnox>   main, atm updating to merged btrfs-tools fails to boot)
[15:21] <xnox> * demoed U1 plugin ubiquity to design/U1 teams over google hangout a
[15:21] <xnox>   few issues got raised that I'm filing bugs/fixing. Also
[15:21] <xnox>   incompatability between sso/u1 was discovered, thus still no go
[15:21] <xnox>   ahead to enable the plugin by default.
[15:22] <xnox> * helping out with automatic-raid preseeding case for UA/PES
[15:22] <xnox> * implemented ubiquity autopilot proof of concept, for QA team source
[15:22] <xnox>   writing tests.
[15:22] <xnox> * reviewing upstart serialisation branch, raised a couple of questions
[15:22] <xnox> * boost1.49 demoted to universe & synced (thanks infinity)
[15:22] <xnox> * started looking into trimming gcc-android cross-toolchain (got rid
[15:22] <xnox>   of java dependancy already, still to trim more & proposed patches to
[15:22] <xnox>   doko)
[15:22] <xnox> * Generated PDFs of some raring sources & binaries, apparently a few
[15:22] <xnox>   more needed.
[15:22] <xnox> done
[15:22] <slangasek> infinity, cjwatson: so last I saw, vanhoof was having problems with the git checkout because he couldn't make git ignore ssl certificate verification hard enough.  If either of you have access to calabash, maybe you could help
[15:23] <slangasek> cjwatson: "fóndations": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhR4RZMWbxw
[15:23] <cjwatson> I tried, can't get to calabash
[15:23] <ev> hahahahaha. Susan.
[15:23] <cjwatson> slangasek: ha
[15:23] <infinity> I, apparently, have access to calabash.
[15:25] <infinity> slangasek: You have more info on that you want to pass me out of band, or should I just poke vanhoof with "Steve said something cryptic involving calabash and WTFery"?
[15:25] <slangasek> infinity: mail bounced
[15:26] <infinity> Ta.
[15:26] <slangasek> any questions over the above statuseses?
[15:26] <ev> infinity: do you happen to know if we've flipped that magic switch on ddebs?
[15:27] <ev> I'm kind of on the wrong timezone to have regular chats with the launchpad folk
[15:27] <jodh> slangasek: my favourite so far http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzt2NLU3uSo&list=PLB4CCD4AB5BCBF4E3
[15:27] <slangasek> ddeb magic switch == powerpc cross-retracers
[15:27] <slangasek> you know you want them
[15:27] <slangasek> jodh: :)
[15:28] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
[15:28] <slangasek> bdmurray: any course corrections for us?
[15:28] <jodh> slangasek: oops should have been http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6usx5vS238Y
[15:28] <slangasek> jodh: oh, heh
[15:29] <bdmurray> I could use some help investigating bug 1175637
[15:31] <slangasek> bdmurray: you did that on a precise system with all package-manager-related SRUs up to date?
[15:31] <slangasek> (does unattended-upgrade use aptdaemon or not?)
[15:32] <slangasek> hmm, it doesn't
[15:32] <infinity> ev: Not flipped yet, no.
[15:32] <slangasek> but it is written to python-apt directly
[15:32] <ev> rubbish
[15:32] <bdmurray> slangasek: yes regarding package manager SRUs
[15:32] <ev> thanks though
[15:32] <infinity> ev: Don't make me get elmo in here to dude you.
[15:33] <slangasek> bdmurray: so I think it's probably a straightforward matter of unattended-upgrades not calling the right api to mark packages as auto when pulling them in as new deps
[15:33] <slangasek> not that I know what that api actually is
[15:34] <ev> infinity: I'm so not complaining.
[15:41] <bdmurray> slangasek: okay
[15:41] <cjwatson> mark_install(from_user=False) I think?  But check ...
[15:42] <slangasek> ah, there's a single call to mark_install() in u-a, so that would be nice and convenient if so
[15:42] <slangasek> bdmurray: is that enough to be going on with?
[15:42] <bdmurray> slangasek: yep, just need some more kernel updates ;-)
[15:42] <slangasek> heh
[15:42] <slangasek> or test in a chroot!
[15:42] <cjwatson> you can mark_auto() on single packages too but you probably don't want to
[15:42] <slangasek> right
[15:42] <slangasek> bdmurray: anything else?
[15:42] <bdmurray> slangasek: nope
[15:42] <slangasek> okie
[15:42] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Touch saucy dogfooding
[15:42] <slangasek> so the Phonedations Team and Desktop Team are at the point where they're ready to finally flip all the Touch development to target saucy exclusively
[15:42] <slangasek> (up to this point, some things have been stuck on raring ppas for $reasons)
[15:43] <slangasek> please take some time to test those images out when they become available and help iterate them, so that we can assist in nailing down any regressions as quickly as possible
[15:43] <slangasek> there are several more major shifts in the pipeline, of which this is only the first
[15:43] <cjwatson> I gather this morning's images were busted?
[15:43] <slangasek> I haven't seen
[15:43] <xnox> cjwatson: well, there is a .1 as well already for today.
[15:43] <xnox> http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-touch/daily-preinstalled/20130605.1/
[15:43] <slangasek> not ubuntu-touch, though
[15:43] <slangasek> I'm talking about http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-touch-preview/daily-preinstalled
[15:43] <cjwatson> ah, yes, the jenkins images
[15:43] <slangasek> the /next/ major shift is to get our actual images really and truly built via cdimage infrastructure
[15:43] <slangasek> which I believe will also come with the container flip (to boot to Ubuntu first and run Android in a container, instead of the other way around)
[15:43] <xnox> ok.
[15:43] <slangasek> if you want to help with this, there's ongoing discussion in #ubuntu-touch about how to make this happen

[15:44] <slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
[15:44] <slangasek> anything else?
[15:45] <ev> are the containers flipped?
[15:45] <ev> the spec looks like that's sort of happened, but I haven't updated yet
[15:45] <stgraber> they are in the saucy images, when they boot
[15:45] <slangasek> no
[15:45] <ev> conflict!
[15:46] <slangasek> stgraber: no, the container flip is separate from the move to saucy
[15:46] <slangasek> there will be saucy images, still built in jenkins, ASAP
[15:46] <slangasek> then on top of that, we still need to get the container flip done
[15:46] <cjwatson> I think stgraber means the ubuntu-touch/saucy images
[15:47] <slangasek> yes - the images in /ubuntu-touch/ are still a work in progress; help is welcome, but those are separate from the daily images that everyone will be dogfooding right now
[15:47] <stgraber> ah yeah, sorry for the confusion, I'm only looking at those from /ubuntu-touch
[15:47] <ev> aren't the ubuntu-touch ones the ones I want?
[15:47] <slangasek> this is confusing - I'm hoping we will be able to clearcut this confusion soon :)
[15:47] <slangasek> ev: you probably want the ones that have been on the floor since their creation
[15:48] <slangasek> er, /don't/ :)
[15:48] <ev> ah, probably not :)
[15:53] <slangasek> ev: ubuntu-touch-preview - these are the ones that are built in jenkins, are moving to saucy imminently, still have Android as the root, and phablet-tools will install them
[15:53] <ev> ahhhh
[15:53] <slangasek> ev: ubuntu-touch - these are still a work in progress, built on the livefs builders, will have Ubuntu as the root, and have bugs to be hammered out
[15:53] <ev> right
[15:53] <ev> thanks, that makes much more sense to me now
[15:53] <slangasek> ok :)
[15:53]  * xnox vaguely wants to upgrade util-linux & include more namespace patches against shadow
[15:53] <slangasek> #endmeeting
[15:53] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Jun  5 15:52:28 2013 UTC.
[15:53] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-06-05-15.03.moin.txt
[15:53] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-06-05-15.03.html
[15:53] <slangasek> that's a wrap
[15:53] <slangasek> thanks :)
[15:53] <stgraber> thanks!
[15:53] <xnox> any reasonable now-how at testing those?
[15:53] <xnox> thanks.
[15:53] <jodh> thanks!
[15:54] <barry_> slangasek: looks like i got disconnected.  i'm guessing the meeting ended just after your aob topic? ;)
[15:54] <xnox> barry_: http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-06-05-15.03.html
[15:54] <xnox> barry_: full log: http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-06-05-15.03.log.html
[15:55] <barry_> xnox: cheers!


[01:11] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rMANUALf0d1f8f6ea0f: Spellcheck firefox] lynorian (Lyn Perrine) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rMANUALf0d1f8f6ea0f
[01:15] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rMANUAL5d5d1c2e8afa: Fix grammar in Quassel summary] lynorian (Lyn Perrine) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rMANUAL5d5d1c2e8afa
[01:18] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rMANUAL1ec9671ad612: Improve wording on hiding events making not notice things easier] lynorian (Lyn Perrine) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rMANUAL1ec9671ad612
[01:26] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rMANUAL67883125a7a7: Improve wording of connecting to an irc network] lynorian (Lyn Perrine) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rMANUAL67883125a7a7
[01:30] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rMANUAL67773907b50c: Add Rename button in quassel irc] lynorian (Lyn Perrine) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rMANUAL67773907b50c
[01:37] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rMANUALe185269ddf9c: Add /part to quit an irc channel] lynorian (Lyn Perrine) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rMANUALe185269ddf9c
[02:03] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rMANUALfe6bae5b7c81: Add /nick to change nickname] lynorian (Lyn Perrine) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rMANUALfe6bae5b7c81
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[19:59] <wxl> is there a problem with github login on discourse?
[20:00] <kc2bez> I don't think so but let me try in a private window.
[20:01] <kc2bez> Oh, there might be. It seems to be taking a bit.
[20:03] <wxl> @teward001 ^^^ any ideas?
 same here w7 username+password (re @lubuntu_bot: (irc) <wxl> is there a problem with github login on discourse?)
[20:07] <wxl> huh even a normal password login isn't working
[20:08] <wxl> @kc2bez could you make a ticket for teward?
 will do
 FYI
 that's all because of the single host node discourse runs on
 so that could be a factor if DO is taking a shit.
 also sorry been dealing with a work security issue that's angering me, the accidental slip there is not normal
[20:09] <kc2bez> !language | @teward001
[20:09] <kc2bez> :P
 *smacks kc2bez between here and the void and back*
 XD
 it may be necessary to reboot the DO node
 because this is a docker container
 not much I can do in terms of *debugging*
 oh this might be an easy fix
 stdby
 kc2bez: wxl: I think it was the CSP - again - this time with certain sandboxing restrictions.  allow-forms was not on and should've been (I'm an idiot)
 try again.
 note though that even if the form never moves it DOES actually log you in heh
 I was able to login
 from scratch?
 wxl: you reported it so test it :P
 test the GH login option too
 if it's working again then I can mark the ticket resolved
 Same here .. (re @kc2bez: I was able to login)
 I think it is safe to close it up, I used the GH login in a private window.
 👍
 is kgiii around?
 somewhere?
[20:35] <kc2bez> paging KGIII to the devel channel XD
 lol
 kc2bez: I can poke em elsewhere
[20:35] <wxl> works thx
 kc2bez: you'll know why if you check the ticket changes :P
[20:36] <kc2bez> I show them idle here in IRC @teward001
[20:43] <KGIII> Yes?
 KGIII see incoming PMs
[21:01] <kc2bez> !standup
[21:02] <wxl> i'm here but i need to go last
[21:02] <kc2bez> ok
[21:02] <kc2bez> what happened to the bot?
[21:02] <wxl> it's there
[21:02]  * wxl kicks ubot93
 Here but house full of guests - Happy new year
[21:03] <kc2bez> Happy New Year @Leokolb
[21:04] <KGIII> Happy New Year.
[21:04] <kc2bez> Since the bot is sleeping. I'll fire it off manually.
[21:04] <kc2bez> @tsimonq2 @lynorian @HMollerCl @aptghetto @teward001 @kc2bez @The_LoudSpeaker wxl[m] guiverc @N0um3n0 @leokolb @KGIII — It's 2100 UTC Thursday which means it's time for the Lubuntu Development standup meeting. Please announce yourself for roll call! Then, in order of announcement, post your items, and be sure to mention when you're done.
[21:05] <KGIII> I am here.
[21:05] <kc2bez> ack
 /o
[21:05]  * guiverc physically present
 *drops a grenade on kc2bez* IT'S NEW YEARS EVE WE CAN DO WITHOUT THE CHECKIN!   *salts the meeting*
[21:06] <kc2bez> :P
[21:06]  * guiverc escaped from 2020 already :)
[21:06] <kc2bez> This should be relatively short
 *condemns guiverc to the salt mine which isn't in 2021 yet*
 :P
 i can go first because i have to go make food shortly
 BUT
[21:07] <kc2bez> go ahead
 fixed some issues with CI, including latest updates to the CI system (enjoy it, because Simon didn't break it this time!)
 Stabilized CI because it was using way too many concurrent processes and that caused things to be chaotic.
 Discourse works again after more ongoing issues enjoy that everyone
 and y'all have a good new years :)
 *goes to cook a huge hunk of ham*
[21:08] <kc2bez> Thanks for everything @teward001
[21:08] <kc2bez> Enjoy the ham
 that's dinner round 1 xD
 dinner round 2 is later (chinese!)
 </off>
[21:09] <kc2bez> guiverc: we will work from the bottom up so go ahead
[21:09] <wxl> thanks thomas
[21:09] <guiverc> - re-opening more autoclosed discourse threads, marking others solved when I can find suitable answer
[21:09] <guiverc> - intermittent EFI error message on BIOS box; tested for what I thought was cause; nope..
[21:09] <guiverc> - general support
[21:10]  * guiverc all I remember, done
[21:10] <kc2bez> Thanks as always for all your help.
[21:10] <wxl> thanks for all of that
[21:10]  * guiverc EFI message is during installs; ie. calamares
[21:11] <kc2bez> Ok
 guiverc: which categories were the autoclosed threads in
[21:11] <kc2bez> I saw one of your bugs re: install via the menu.
 if they're global i can fix the autoclose periods
[21:12] <wxl> it should be support
[21:12] <guiverc> @teward001 support
[21:12] <guiverc> sorry, as wxl said... (not very awaake)
[21:13] <wxl> we autoclose at a month out
[21:13] <wxl> that seems pretty generous all things considered
[21:13] <wxl> it would be nice if we could do a two-stage thing
[21:14] <wxl> like 15 days out there's a message that the topic will close in 15 days with no activity
[21:14] <wxl> and then it closes 15 days after
[21:14] <wxl> but whatever
 wxl: the autoclose is actually 720 hours from last post on the category itself
[21:15] <wxl> right
 that doesn't seem long enough
 and that's 30 days
[21:15] <wxl> that's
[21:16] <wxl> 30
[21:16] <wxl> days
 i mean :P
[21:16] <wxl> that's also referred to commonly as "a month" XD
[21:16] <kc2bez> back to the install from the menu, one of the icons should be hidden but this bug exists https://github.com/lxqt/lxqt/issues/1743
[21:16] <wxl> shooot wtf
[21:17] <kc2bez> bang
 wxl: maybe we should do 45 days then for support but that's your call :)
 you all can just enjoy the rest of your bugs ;)
[21:18] <kc2bez> anything else guiverc ?
[21:18] <guiverc> thank you wxl, kc2bez, @teward
[21:19] <kc2bez> Most welcome and thank you.
[21:19]  * guiverc lifts head, nah, head back down on bench
[21:19] <teward> *picks up guiverc, puts guiverc on a bed and puts blankets over them* go rest noob
[21:19] <teward> ;)
 o/
[21:20] <guiverc> :)
[21:20] <kc2bez> ack lynorian
[21:20] <wxl> nite nite guiverc
[21:20] <kc2bez> @Leokolb did you have anything else
[21:20] <wxl> added you a comment on your bug kc2bez
[21:21] <kc2bez> ok, thanks I think
[21:22] <kc2bez> Ah, yes
[21:22] <kc2bez> Thanks for the backup
[21:23] <kc2bez> I think Leó is enjoying his house guests.
[21:24] <kc2bez> KGIII: over to you
[21:24] <KGIII> Ham sounds delicious, but I digress. Testing is going well, though I noticed you can't install with just a keyboard. At least not with my setup. You can tab to the buttons, but the enter button on the keyboard doesn't do a darned thing. I just noticed this today, so I plan on checking future builds. I do some support here and there and will continue with that. That is everything.
[21:24] <kc2bez> Thanks!
[21:25] <KGIII> And, thanks to y'all for being so friendly and informative.
[21:25] <kc2bez> I don't know that I have tried a KB install recently.
[21:25] <kc2bez> I may need to test that too.
[21:26] <KGIII> I VNC into a remote computer and do it all there, so it could be something there. I'll get off my butt and go into the other room tomorrow.
[21:26] <kc2bez> sounds good
[21:26] <KGIII> I doubt it's VNC related, but I'll eliminate that.
[21:26] <KGIII> Well, maybe on the 2nd - I may drink some wine tonight.
[21:26] <guiverc> Thank you KGIII !
[21:27] <kc2bez> @lynorian over to you
[21:27] <wxl> KGIII: space instead of enter?
[21:27] <KGIII> Lemme check. One sec.
[21:28] <KGIII> Space does indeed work - but that's definitely not intuitive. (At least it wasn't to me.)
 I checked discourse and found ubun-ie had found an typo and then fixed that and put in all version of manual with cherry pick
 I found a typo in firefox and brightness and fixed
 I improved wording on quassel as well
[21:29] <wxl> KGIII: that said, a little wishlist bug on the cala github might be a worthwhile addition. you want to throw that in?
 also added /part and /nick to quassel
[21:31] <wxl> great work lyn! did you see the manual pdf project btw??????????????
 that is all I have
[21:32] <guiverc> thank you @lynorian, the manual is a great ref to link to in support!  You've done great work
 I actualy haven't done much of that
[21:32] <kc2bez> That is great lyn!
[21:32] <KGIII> I'll make a note of it and grab it later tonight or tomorrow. I also can't seem to find a keyboard method to select 'erase disk' 'replace a partition' etc... I'll start writing it up now.
[21:32] <wxl> well it all happened iwithout you :)
 xelatex use actually fixed that and someone else had that Idea I just apporved it
[21:33] <wxl> well it makes me happy, i'll tell you that
[21:33] <wxl> i love our team :)
[21:33] <kc2bez> +100000
[21:34] <kc2bez> I will go
[21:34] <kc2bez> Last meeting for the year :P
[21:34] <kc2bez> * Worked with teward to help get the manual building as a pdf in CI. More to do there but I think we have a good start on something very useful. Thanks to everyone involved on that.
[21:34] <kc2bez> * Also worked with teward on getting some of the builds more stable in CI
[21:34] <kc2bez> * We have some packaging fixups to happen over there.
[21:34] <kc2bez> * Worked with teward to setup incoming mail to Discourse. wxl chime in with your thoughts. Here is what is setup so far:
[21:34] <kc2bez>     * lubuntu-feedback@ (selfexplanatory).  support@ goes to discourse site support category.  lubuntu-feedback@ goes to the Lubuntu Feedback category,  feedback@ goes to the discourse site feedback category
[21:35] <wxl> ^^ my goal here is to have a mailing-list like interface to Discourse, so among other things, i can send announcements by email to both the email list and Discourse
 sorry ..back again
[21:36] <kc2bez> OK, makes sense wxl, We should add announcements then
[21:36] <wxl> yeah
[21:37] <kc2bez> If you have anything @Leokolb jump in
[21:37] <wxl> devel probably too
[21:37] <kc2bez> ok
 Testing - Samba - playing with swap partitions and Rasp pi4 not much new here
[21:38] <kc2bez> Thanks for continuing to work on those
[21:38] <wxl> @KGIII: just a little context here's a bug that discusses keyboard navigation and it seems to suggest that space is the right key for activation. so it may be good in that bug to acknowledge that this is expected behavior, albeit not necessarily intuitive. perhaps we could have both space AND enter?
[21:38] <wxl> @leokolb sorry i haven't got back to you on all that
[21:39] <KGIII> LOL That's almost verbatim of my rough-draft write-up that I'm working on.
 no problem - more time after the holidays
[21:39] <wxl> @KGIII: oops forgot the link https://github.com/calamares/calamares/issues/1213
[21:39] <wxl> @leokolb totes. holidays have been nuts over here.
[21:40] <kc2bez> Same here.
 called away again - Thanks all for a great year
[21:40] <KGIII> I have that it's the expected behavior but not intuitive and that the enter key should be also able to work.
[21:40] <KGIII> Oh, and I noticed something else. Whoever came up with the idea of multiple languages for support in Discourse, that's a brilliant choice. I see quite a few posts there and it hasn't even existed for very long.
[21:41] <guiverc> Thank you @Leokolb
[21:41] <wxl> be well @leokolb and thank you very much
 For my part, nothing more than do support, it seems that the German and Italian groups are moving a bit.  people start to enter the groups from the irc too
[21:41] <wxl> @KGIII: that is all @N0um3n0's doing, really. i helped implement it (and the IRC channels) but it's not really my baby.
[21:41] <kc2bez> It warms my heart to see the activity
[21:42] <wxl> ^^^ agreed
[21:42] <wxl> like that's the best Lubuntu news all year, IMHO
[21:42] <kc2bez> It really is good stuff
[21:42] <kc2bez> I don't have much else. Spent some time poking at some support things on Discourse and ask Ubuntu.
[21:43] <KGIII> It's starting off very, very well.
[21:43] <wxl> speaking of @N0um3n0 i see that @guiverc opened up this can of worms again https://discourse.lubuntu.me/t/cant-change-keyboard-locale-on-logon-screen-with-lxqt-lubuntu-19-04-19-10-and-20-04/1377 but i'm struggling to make sense of all this. can you help? mostly the question i have is this: how can we or the software we use (calamares?) do better to ensure this is not a probelm?
 you did almost all the work!  now it seems that everything is starting to work;) thank you very much everyone!
[21:45] <wxl> @N0um3n0 any more ideas you have with regards to helping improve non-English language support, please let me know. i think we're all very excited about it.
[21:46] <guiverc> Thank you @N0um3n0
[21:46] <kc2bez> wxl: I wonder if we are not running into issues with fcitx https://github.com/lxqt/lxqt/issues/1858
 the problem is that sddm takes the locale configuration, if you install in Russian you cannot put a password in English.  solution, install in English and add keyboard in Russian, tested and working perfect
[21:47] <wxl> maybe we should add a warning or something about that
 Ok, perfect! (re @lubuntu_bot: (irc) <wxl> @N0um3n0 any more ideas you have with regards to helping improve non-English language support, please let me know. i think we're all very excited about it.)
 I am not the best person for locale stuff
[21:48] <wxl> is the issue really here that sddm doesn't deal right with locales? or can calamares somehow do better?
[21:48] <wxl> me either
[21:48] <kc2bez> I can barely handle one language
[21:48] <wxl> indeed
[21:49] <kc2bez> Hey now, you weren't supposed to be so agreeable. :P
[21:49] <kc2bez> I think you are all that is left wxl
[21:49] <wxl> ok
[21:50] <wxl> well like i said things have been nuts so i'm struggling to recount all the things i did do XD
[21:50] <wxl> mostly i think it was support and stuff
[21:50]  * guiverc raises head, nothing to say, so head returns to bench
[21:50] <wxl> i continue to foolishly assist fritz in his attempt to unravel why he's got an old kernel XD
[21:50] <kc2bez> same here XD
 plasma have the same problem with Russian users ... (re @lubuntu_bot: (irc) <wxl> is the issue really here that sddm doesn't deal right with locales? or can calamares somehow do better?)
[21:51] <wxl> had someone who wanted their discourse account deleted and that's a contentious subject in discourse so i made a definitive document about it https://discourse.lubuntu.me/t/how-to-delete-your-account/2007
 In sddm
[21:51] <guiverc> I thought you said it well wxl (anonimized account)
[21:51] <kc2bez> That is good to know @N0um3n0
[21:52] <wxl> @N0um3n0 i might go ask the kubuntu folks what their feelings are about it
[21:52] <wxl> i think it was after the last meeting i did this https://discourse.lubuntu.me/t/sambashare-fixes/1980/3
[21:52] <KGIII> Speaking of the Discourse account deletion, there's a lovely rule at HN and we might want to consider borrowing it. "Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith." I love that rule - it's so elegant but spot-on.
[21:52] <wxl> which is a proposed solution for currently installed systems for the sambashare group issue
[21:53] <wxl> if anyone wants to play with testing that, it might be good
[21:53] <wxl> it would be good for known issues and such
[21:54] <guiverc> I don't use samba so can't test it sorry  (use NFS)
[21:54] <wxl> guiverc: samba's not required
[21:55] <wxl> it's essentially just testing if GID/UID stuff behaves correctly
[21:55] <wxl> i think that's all i got
[21:55] <guiverc> okay then.. yes I can..
[21:55] <guiverc> Thanks wxl
[21:55] <kc2bez> It relates to this task https://phab.lubuntu.me/T181
[21:55] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Medium, Open] GID/UID mismatch for users.: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T181
[21:56] <kc2bez> Thanks for everything wxl !
[21:56] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T181: GID/UID mismatch for users.] wxl (Walter Lapchynski) commented on the task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T181#3980
[21:57] <wxl> thank you all
[21:57] <wxl> keep up the good work
[21:57] <wxl> see you next year
[21:57] <kc2bez> Happy New Year everyone!
[21:57] <guiverc> ack kc2bez, yeah recall the bug..
[21:57] <KGIII> Same and same. Stay safe on this holiday night.
[21:57] <guiverc> Happy New (this 2021) Year folks
 Same!!!!
 same++


[19:50] -ubottu:#ubuntu-news- ::omg!ubuntu:: Wipeout Racing Game Gets a Rewrite, Here’s How to Build it on Ubuntu @ https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2023/08/play-wipeout-rewrite-ubuntu
[20:07] <Bashing-om> UWN: Issue800 up for review and final edits: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue800 :D