[00:53] <erichammond> smoser: I'm here.
[00:54] <smoser> never mind. i thought you had opened the 'no ec2-tag command' bug
[00:56] <flaccid> hey guys :)
[01:02] <erichammond> smoser: Yeah, I just added a comment to it.
[01:03] <smoser> erichammond, i do want to get your package requests packaged.
[01:03] <smoser> iam is on top of my personal list
[01:04] <erichammond> smoser: Cool.  It seems right up Ubuntu's alley to package useful software :)
[01:04] <erichammond> I'd love to have all of Amazon's software available a day or so after they release each new tool set or version.
[01:05] <erichammond> This probably means a PPA since it takes more work to get it into official Ubuntu packages.
[01:05] <smoser> well,k i've kept up ok with api-tools
[01:05] <smoser> we used to maintain that ppa
[01:05] <erichammond> I'd be willing to manage the PPA if I had help learning how to maintain it.
[01:05] <smoser> but i tihnk the -backports should be the real place
[01:05] <smoser> i could maintain a ppa for staging though i guess and then get into backports when they do
[01:06] <erichammond> smoser: Is it possible to -backports a single package?  I think I did something like this with "pinning" but it's been a long time.
[01:06] <smoser> erichammond, we can set up a team and share the amazon-tools ppa
[01:06] <smoser> erichammond, yeah... that part does suck, i agree.
[01:06] <smoser> there are ways to do it, but...
[01:06] <smoser> i'm not terribly familiar with it.
[01:06] <smoser> basically "backports is the place for backports"
[01:07] <smoser> its the most discoverable for people
[01:07] <smoser> that was the conclusion we came to in a meeting once
[01:08] <erichammond> Ok, so PPA with fast updates, paced integration into +1 if the timing in the release cycle is right, and -backports for older releases?
[01:08] <smoser> yeah.
[01:08] <smoser> backports probably isn't that slow
[01:08] <smoser> if we had someone watching
[01:09] <smoser> it definitely would be slower than ppa, but if you have someone keeping on top of it, it wouldn't be so bad. its just more work.
[01:09] <smoser> (ie, have to file a bug and tap someone on backprots team)
[01:10] <erichammond> In the Ubuntu way, is there ever a place for updating the software in a past release if it's primarily to gain access to new features?
[01:11] <erichammond> This seems slightly contradictory to keeping the release constant and stable, but it sure would be nice for keeping up with Amazon's constant stream of features.
[01:11] <mathiaz> erichammond: SRU can be used for that
[01:11] <erichammond> I'm ok with PPA personally, but it makes discoverability difficult for the masses.
[01:12] <mathiaz> erichammond: one of the critiria for Stable Release Update is if the services used by the progam change
[01:12] <mathiaz> erichammond: landscape-client is such an example
[01:13] <mathiaz> erichammond: new releases with new features of landscape-client are pushed as SRU
[01:13] <mathiaz> erichammond: in order to gain access to new features available in landscape
[01:13] <erichammond> mathiaz: Thanks.  AWS seems to fit in with that criteria.
[01:13] <mathiaz> erichammond: so landscape-client has an SRU exception with a documented plan for QA
[01:13] <mathiaz> erichammond: landscape-client was actually the first example for such a situation
[01:14] <mathiaz> erichammond: and should be looked as a model to handle the same situation
[01:15] <erichammond> The one big risk is that the new version breaks old behavior, but in the case of Amazon's tools, they are *extremely* averse to breaking backwards compatibility, so it should fit in pretty well with Ubuntu.
[01:15] <mathiaz> erichammond: I agree that AWS commands could probably get an SRU
[01:15] <mathiaz> erichammond: yeah - that's the main critiria that need to be highlighted
[01:16] <mathiaz> erichammond: I'd recommend to talk about that at UDS to get the process started
[01:16] <smoser> i dont think theres a lot of value in getting into SRU over backports
[01:16] <mathiaz> erichammond: from a process POV the Technincal Board is the entity to engage with
[01:16] <smoser> for landscape, there is. i don't think for ec2.
[01:16] <mathiaz> smoser: is -backports enabled by default?
[01:16] <mathiaz> smoser: on the AMI?
[01:16] <smoser> no.
[01:17] <mathiaz> smoser: so how would you get the new versions of the tools?
[01:17] <smoser> but in most of these tools aren't needed in the ami.
[01:17] <smoser> they're client tools
[01:17] <smoser> but.. anyway, you'd enable backports and get them.
[01:17] <smoser> just as you do other places.
[01:17] <erichammond> smoser: I'm not talking about AMIs. I simply use these tools on Ubuntu.
[01:17] <smoser> you very likely do not need them early in first boot
[01:17] <mathiaz> smoser: right - *enabling* backports is already a big step to take
[01:17] <smoser> bah.
[01:17] <mathiaz> smoser: especially if you're running desktop
[01:18] <erichammond> mathiaz: Agreed (big step)
[01:18] <erichammond> So: Amazon release -> PPA as soon as one of the team can get to it -> Ubuntu+1 update -> -backports update -> SRU process
[01:18] <mathiaz> smoser: where you'd get a lot of other non-related things
[01:18] <smoser> that part sucks.
[01:18] <mathiaz> smoser: yes - I think there will be some discussion about that at UDS as well
[01:19] <mathiaz> an SRU exception seems feasible to me
[01:19] <smoser> erichammond, similar thread to the "extremely stable" line: http://developer.amazonwebservices.com/connect/thread.jspa?threadID=53242&tstart=0
[01:19] <smoser> i was very surprised to see that, if in fact they've just dropped stuff from the MD service.
[01:19] <smoser> mathiaz, i just dont think the sru is justified
[01:19] <smoser> there is risk for breaking old things
[01:20] <smoser> and not much gain, imho
[01:20] <erichammond> mathiaz: If it is done, would the SRU be just for LTS releases or all active releases?
[01:20] <mathiaz> smoser: :/ - is the source code actually available?
[01:20] <mathiaz> erichammond: all active releases IMO
[01:20] <mathiaz> erichammond: there is no real difference in terms of SRU critiria between LTS and normal releases
[01:20] <erichammond> smoser: I think it's a huge gain.  For those of us running released versions of Ubuntu (not +1) it's nice to have access to all live AWS features with our standard installed software available from Ubuntu.
[01:21] <smoser> no source (for most things).
[01:21] <smoser> erichammond, i'm not arguing against the availability
[01:21] <smoser> i'm arguing against SRU
[01:21] <mathiaz> smoser: hm - that would probably make it harder for getting an SRU exception then
[01:21] <smoser> its not justified over backports or ppa
[01:21] <erichammond> smoser: It's a matter of how widely you want the gain to be seen.  Just people who know about how to access PPAs and -backports, or everybody.
[01:22] <smoser> you break things
[01:22] <smoser> and that should not be by default
[01:22] <smoser> and, seriously, you type it into google at some point
[01:22] <smoser> "ubuntu ec2-api-tools"
[01:22] <smoser> poof
[01:22] <erichammond> If the risk is low (and so far it has been) then I'd vote for spreading the goodness.
[01:22] <smoser> the one break i'm aware of is requirement for '--name' in new ec2-register
[01:22] <smoser> which broke things
[01:23] <smoser> and they changed the behavior of the tools to show 'name' rather than manifest path
[01:23] <smoser> (this was when they added snapshots)
[01:23] <smoser> err... ebs root
[01:24] <erichammond> smoser: Fair 'nuff.  I'm not going to push for SRU as long as I can get PPA :)
[01:24] <smoser> landscape is different. it *has* to be in those images in a lot of cases, because landscape manages them.
[01:26] <erichammond> smoser: The AWS tools have little to do with the AMIs as they aren't installed there and are often not used there.  This is just about making AWS features easy to use from Ubuntu systems.
[01:27] <smoser> yeah, understood
[01:27] <smoser> i have to run
[01:27] <erichammond> So what are the next steps for setting up the team PPA?
[01:27] <erichammond> Or does this still need to be discussed at UDS?
[01:29] <mathiaz> erichammond: I don't think this needs to be discussed at UDS
[01:30] <mathiaz> erichammond: it's just a matter of creating a team in LP and that's it
[01:30] <mathiaz> erichammond: the name of the team may be discussed though
[01:30] <mathiaz> erichammond: not worth a UDS session IMO
[01:34] <erichammond> mathiaz: Well, there is a session where I tacked on the request to have these AWS software tools released in Ubuntu.
[01:34] <erichammond> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/cloud-server-n-webscale-tech
[01:35] <mathiaz> erichammond: good - seems like a good plan
[01:35] <mathiaz> erichammond: but don't wait for the UDS session - setting the team and the PPA may be sorted out sooner and faster with smoser
[01:35] <erichammond> mathiaz: cool.
[01:38] <erichammond> flaccid: 'lo
[01:38] <flaccid> howdy
[01:43] <flaccid> soon i'll find time to get debian going with pvgrub
[01:43] <smoser> erichammond, mathiaz you can discuss this , i'm not here.
[01:43] <smoser> but there is the ubuntu-on-ec2 team and ppa
[01:43] <smoser> where that *used* to be, before others (mathiaz included :) suggested that -backports was the correct place
[01:43] <smoser> :)
[01:44] <mathiaz> smoser: :)
[01:44] <erichammond> smoser, mathiaz: This isn't really related to "ubuntu-on-ec2" since it doesn't relate to the AMIs.  It's more "Using AWS with Ubuntu".
[01:45] <erichammond> Perhaps "aws-tools"
[01:45] <erichammond> It also expands beyond "EC2" into other AWS services.
[01:46] <erichammond> We might even want to include software for working with AWS that is not released by Amazon.  There's a lot of good stuff out there.
[01:46] <erichammond> making it easy for folks to install those packages.
[01:47] <erichammond> It's not important to me at this point, but perhaps the team/PPA could eventually support tools non-Amazon clouds.
[01:47] <erichammond> So... "cloud-tools"?
[01:47] <erichammond> Though this might start to blur into UEC stuff.
[01:49] <erichammond> flaccid: The Debian crowd would be thrilled with this.  It is now becoming clear that Debian squeeze runs with recent Ubuntu kernels on EC2, but if I understand correctly, pv would let Debian run with a Debian kernel.
[01:50] <flaccid> erichammond: yeah i've been running with lucid kernel. actually a lot of distros boot and run fine with the ubuntu kernels. just a matter of finding time to do the debian pvgrub - i just need to add to my build template
[01:57] <flaccid> after that is done, then it will be on to freebsd support with pvgrub
[01:57] <erichammond> oooh.
[01:58] <erichammond> You'll be famous :)
[01:59] <erichammond> Those guys have been begging for 4 years.
[02:00] <flaccid> yeah and i'm one of those guys hehe. its all a matter of finding time; but i got a feeling that bsd may still not run because of EC2's ancient xen. is still used with pvgrub or is it something else?
[02:01] <flaccid> i mean 'is xen still used'
[02:12] <erichammond> flaccid: smoser or jjohansen might know since Ubuntu 10.10 works with pv (I think).
[02:14] <flaccid> okies thanks. the positive thing is that in theory at least would be able to get it up to init
[02:38] <smoser> flaccid, xen is still used with pv-grub
[02:39] <smoser> pv-grub is mostly just grub (0.97) that runs inside xen, loads the kernel off a filesystem it knows about , and goes.
[02:39] <smoser> but i dont know if it can read a bsd filesystem, you might have to hack around with getting a boot partition
[02:40] <smoser> the big benefit of pv-grub is that you (being someone other than me) can *try* a kernel.
[02:40] <smoser> ie, you dont hvae to register a aki
[02:42] <smoser> i think amazon mentioned bsd explicitly in the pv-grub announcemnt
[02:46] <StAlphonzo> Libvirt suddenly refuses to let me add a NIC to a bridge. It's always worked well, but now suddenly, it connects it to a virtual network instead. Is this a known issue?
[02:46] <StAlphonzo> any ideas? My VMs are no longer of any use, since they cannot be reached from the internet. It's incredibly frustrating.
[02:47] <flaccid> smoser: thanks for the info. yeah i doubt UFS2 will go in the cloud, but bsd should be able to run on other filesystems. amazon did mention bsd in the announcement, this is typically because they have always turned it back to the community for implementing bsd support, yet in the past it certainly wasn't possible with their ancient version of xen
[02:47] <smoser> well, the version of xen didn't change
[02:48] <smoser> so, if you were screwed for that reason before, you are now.
[02:48] <smoser> but we boot paravirt-ops kernels and they work
[02:48] <smoser> so, it really is possible.
[02:48] <flaccid> yes, which is basically what i suspect. the issue with xen 3.0.3 iirc was actually the boot, so its possible that it may be able to boot. see http://wiki.freebsd.org/FreeBSD/Xen
[02:49] <flaccid> just because older xen is not supported by freebsd, doesn't mean necessarily that it doesn't work
[02:49] <smoser> with pv-grub its so infinitely more doable than before.
[02:49] <smoser> since you can actually start an instance, stop it, build a kernel on that voume, start again ...
[02:50] <flaccid> i'm looking forward to finding some time to try it all out etc. might have to do it in xmas holidays..
[02:50] <smoser> so much faster and saner to debug in that environment than in the one jjohansen and zul got to play in
[02:50] <smoser> (publishing aki, startin new instance...)
[02:50] <smoser> one thing you should b aware of
[02:50] <smoser> there are two pv-grub kernels
[02:50] <zul> smoser: i have more grey hair now
[02:51] <smoser> one loads off of (hd0) (i think we use that one), one loads of (hd0,1)
[02:51] <smoser> i forget the details, but the one we don't use is so that you could basically register an instance store image that was a disk-image inside a partition
[02:51] <smoser> and then your root would be sda1p1
[02:52] <flaccid> ok. i just hope it plays nice with freebsd bios device names
[03:45] <h1> what I was wondering: are you guys patching the OS yourself or is that something the provider does for you?
[03:47] <flaccid> depends how you define patching. its generally something up to you
[11:27] <h1> flaccid: I mean OS patching.
[11:27] <h1> as in kernel and packages update.
[14:49] <alonswartz> smoser: what would it take to support kernel-upgrades on the Lucid EC2 AMI's (as supported in the Maverick AMI's)?
[14:50] <smoser> not a lot.
[14:50] <smoser> and i've been wanting to spend some time on it.
[14:50] <alonswartz> smoser: it would be great if we could update the Lucid AMI's then - being LTS and all...
[14:50] <smoser> largely the only thing you really need is grub-legacy-ec2 installed
[14:50] <smoser> alonswartz, its not really SRU
[14:50] <smoser> is the thing
[14:51] <smoser> we'll have to argue, because it is undeniably "feature" and not bug or security
[14:52] <alonswartz> smoser: not a security bug directly, but definately a security enhancement. Think production server running on EC2, kernel vulnerability disclosed. Sysadmin now needs to migrate his system to a new AMI
[14:53] <smoser> yeah..
[14:53] <smoser> so, the one thing that *has* to happen is to get /boot/grub/menu.lst written in the image during creation
[14:53] <alonswartz> anyone who has ever migrated a production system knows what a PITA it is
[14:53] <smoser> then, the next thing is you have to manage /boot/grub/menu.lst
[14:54] <smoser> grub-legacy-ec2 does both of those. but its part of cloud-init in maverick. so need to rip it out, put it into lucid cloud-init.
[14:55] <alonswartz> smoser: if you don't get to it, I'll do it. As we want to support cloud-init in the new TurnKey 11.0 release (based on Lucid)
[14:55] <alonswartz> but, getting it supported in the official Lucid AMI's would be a win for ubuntu
[14:56] <alonswartz> being LTS
[14:56] <smoser> yeah, jib was pushing on that pretty ahrd.
[14:56] <smoser> and i mostly agree.
[14:56] <smoser> alonswartz, i put your thiknpad in my bag last night.
[14:56] <smoser> all ready to go
[14:56] <alonswartz> smoser: awesome, don't forget the SSD :)
[14:56] <smoser> darn
[14:57] <smoser> i was hoping you'd forgotten
[14:57] <smoser> :)
[14:57] <smoser> its in there too.
[14:57] <alonswartz> for the price I paid, and how much I want it, there is no way I'd forget it
[14:57] <smoser> what did that thing cost ?
[14:57] <alonswartz> $359
[14:57] <smoser> wow
[14:57] <alonswartz> cheapest I could find
[14:57] <alonswartz> usually goes for $450+
[14:58] <alonswartz> Lenovo sell it for $500
[14:58] <smoser> i could sell you some mob style "insurance" on it, to make sure it got there.
[14:58] <smoser> :)
[14:58] <alonswartz> wait, you putting it in your carry-on luggage, right?
[15:02] <alonswartz> smoser: did the laptop/ssd come with receipts? please bring them as well.
[15:03] <smoser> yeah. i've got everything they sent.
[15:03] <smoser> the ssd didn't have any receipt that i know of.
[15:03] <smoser> its retail packaged though, sealed.
[15:03] <smoser> its in carry-on
[15:05] <alonswartz> excellent! just let me know your favourite brand of beer
[15:05] <alonswartz> smoser: btw, when do you arrive. you aren't listed on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-N/Attendees
[15:07] <smoser> i'm visiting some family in florida , so i'm driving in on sunday night. i have to return the car to the airport and then taxy over, but have to be at hotel ~ 5:00 or so
[15:08] <alonswartz> cool - so i'll see you then. My plane arrives in the morning
[15:08] <alonswartz> regarding the kernel-upgrade. Do we have an action item? I've added a note to the IdeaPool
[15:10] <alonswartz> smoser: one other thing, when you have a couple of minutes, could you take a look at Pymin. Maybe we can discuss it further at UDS. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Pymin
[15:11] <smoser> ok, so when i scanned it before, the gist is a webmin like thing ?
[15:12] <alonswartz> nope, far from it
[15:13] <alonswartz> the better backend for editing files is something like augeas
[15:13] <alonswartz> the idea is to have a layer implementation, not necessarily a web interface on the actual server, but it's possible
[15:13] <smoser> yeah.
[15:14] <alonswartz> you could then manage it from a central server, similar to landscape
[15:14] <alonswartz> but could also be used for local configurations
[15:14] <alonswartz> integrating it with puppet would be great as well
[15:19] <alonswartz> mathiaz: did you get a chance to look over Pymin. I'd love your feedback considering your knowledge/experience with puppet.
[15:26] <mathiaz> alonswartz: I looked at it - it seems to be very high level for now
[15:27] <mathiaz> alonswartz: having user stories defined, outlining how it would work in the end would be helpful
[15:28] <alonswartz> mathiaz: You're correct. Its currently a dump of my notes, needs to be translated into spec form
[15:28] <alonswartz> mathiaz: if you think it would be beneficial, I'll try get it done before next week
[15:28] <mathiaz> alonswartz: it's better for a discussion if you plan to have a uds session about it
[15:29] <mathiaz> alonswartz: all previous attempts suffered from a lack of clear scoping
[15:29] <mathiaz> alonswartz: specific, targeted goal
[15:30] <alonswartz> mathiaz: OK, i'll see what I can do. Is there a deadline to propose a session (ie. register a blueprint) ?
[15:30] <mathiaz> alonswartz: the earlier the better
[15:30] <mathiaz> alonswartz: if you already you wanna have a discussion file it now
[15:30] <mathiaz> alonswartz: and ping ttx in #ubuntu-server for scheduling
[15:31] <alonswartz> mathiaz: thanks - I'll try get it all done asap
[22:21] <erichammond> http://aws.amazon.com/free/
[22:23] <erichammond> Since you must use EBS volumes on t1.micro and they only give you 10GB EBS for free, running an official Ubuntu AMI on this "free" plan will cost at least $0.50/month :-)
[22:23] <erichammond> Still a pretty cool idea to get folks to dip their toes in the water.
[22:23] <erichammond> Hope they don't get scared by how weak a t1.micro is.
[23:38] <flaccid> yeah people need to certainly understand the purpose/role of a micro


[00:42] <metroid1> is there a graphical way to edit menus?
[00:44] <metroid1> i tried alacarte but it had no idea what it was doing outside of gnome
[00:51] <n2diy> ok, I have a fresh virgin install of 10.10 on my test box. Now I want to set it up like this box, so how do I get my synaptic marks over to it? I can ping the box, but grsync and gftp are refused connections, along with ssh attempts?
[01:10] <residentgrey> how do you do that 'synaptic marks' stuff?
[01:29] <n2diy> residentgrey, from the synaptic menu /file/save marks
[01:29] <residentgrey> oh and you can load it onto another box and have all your goodies?
[01:30] <residentgrey> hmmm, i can set up a script to save it automatically right?
[01:30] <n2diy> residentgrey, yes, it is a plain text file, the only hassle is, you can't add to it, so I end up with multible files, and cut and paste them together.
[01:31] <n2diy> with a text editor
[01:32] <residentgrey> that can be done by opening a new one, globbing all that gunk into that file right?
[01:32] <residentgrey> by script?
[01:32] <n2diy> residentgrey, I suppose, I just cut and paste with mousepad.
[01:33] <residentgrey> ohok
[01:33] <residentgrey> i am a n00b so thought to ask
[01:33] <n2diy> ah, we're all noobs in one way or another.
[01:34] <n2diy> ok, I have a fresh virgin install of 10.10 on my test box. Now I want to set it up like this box, so how do I get my synaptic marks over to it? I can ping the box, but grsync and gftp are refused connections, along with my ssh attempts?
[02:24] <ball> Is there something I can run to make sure any old packages or libraries are cleared out that are no longer needed?
[02:26] <Unit193> sudo apt-get autoremove
[02:26] <ball> Unit193: Thanks
[02:26] <Unit193> Uninstalling old ones?
[02:27]  * ball nods
[02:28] <ball> I'm running from a 4G flash drive, so I try to keep things minimal
[02:28] <Unit193> Then yep! (I also use apt-get autoclean)
[02:28] <ball> I love how fast Xubuntu is.
[02:29] <ball> I've taken to using it at work for some jobs, though that's controvertial.
[02:30] <Unit193> Use a XP theme and people don't notice ;)
[02:30] <ball> :-)
[02:31] <Unit193> How much faster would you say Xubuntu is then Ubuntu?
[02:32] <ball> Difficult to say without extensive testing.  On many of the machines I work on it *feels* about twice as fast.
[02:35] <Unit193> Sweet! (I was under the impression it wasn't all that much faster :\ )
[02:35] <Unit193> ball: what other light distros have you tried?
[02:36] <ball> Of Linux? I'm not sure. I think I tried a Linux that used OpenBox once, but it had an issue that prevented me using it.
[02:37] <ball> Forget now what it was called.
[02:38] <ball> Over the years I've used SLES (I think, installed from 5.25" floppies), Slackware, Yellow Dog Linux (on a PowerPC iBook) and Ubuntu.
[02:39] <ball> ...and Xubuntu of course.
[02:39] <Unit193> My biggest question is Xubuntu vs Lubuntu :)
[02:40] <Unit193> I have an old PPC I would *love* to get linux/Xubuntu on!
[02:41] <ball> I've never heard of Lubuntu
[02:41] <Unit193> L = LXDE
[02:41] <ball> I've never heard of LXDE
[02:42] <ball> Googling for it now.
[02:42] <ball> Is there a PowerPC port of Xubuntu?
[02:42] <Unit193> Yeah, community only
[02:43] <ball> How do I go about downloading that?
[02:45] <Unit193> I lost the link... can only find lucid
[02:46] <ball> I have a beige G3 here somewhere and I met someone with an old iBook recently too.
[02:47] <Unit193> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ports/releases/10.10/release/
[02:47] <Unit193> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/ports/releases/10.04/release/
[02:50] <Unit193> ball: If you ever get Xubuntu (or linux) on them old G3s, tell me will ya?
[02:51] <ball> Unit193: I'll let you know how I get on.
[02:54] <lighta> from using both I prefer xubuntu !
[02:54] <lighta> but lxfe not so bad
[02:55] <lighta> mixed up both sound the best for me !
[02:56] <lighta> my lubuntu just didn't have many tool from the start wich annoying, no openoffice, no subversion, no gimp, no usb creator, ...
[02:57] <Unit193> OpenOffice is very heavy! gimp is kinda heavy too
[02:57] <lighta> in other side desktop not so bad and LXTerm nice, onglet tool very usefull
[02:57] <lighta> yeah
[02:57] <lighta> but needed both
[02:58] <Unit193> I have Lubuntu on an old 500MHz 512Ram computer, just forget about FF, OO.o and even chromium is rather slow
[02:59] <lighta> what's FF ? flash ?
[03:00] <Graet|> FireFox usually
[03:01] <lighta> ah ok
[03:01] <lighta> I found Chromium ok for the moment
[03:01] <lighta> are you using w3m then ?
[03:03] <Unit193> Midori
[03:03] <Unit193> it's slow on that computer, but it works
[03:05] <lighta> ok, never tryed this on yet
[03:20] <Unit193> Anyone know why there don't seem to be any 10.10 PPC versions?
[07:23] <ubuntu_> anybody on? other then bots?
[07:24] <Unit193> No
[07:24] <ubuntu_> help with xubuntu install?
[07:25] <Unit193> I'm not sure if I can... but ask?
[07:25] <ubuntu_> Im hung up at "who are you" wont let me go further forward isgreyedout
[07:25] <ubuntu_> sorry  spacebar is shit on this keyboard
[07:26] <bazhang> try all small case
[07:26] <ubuntu_> for computer name or?
[07:26] <bazhang> all names
[07:26] <ubuntu_> I have green dots beside everything...?
[07:26] <ubuntu_> Ill try thanks
[07:28] <ubuntu_> bazhang
[07:28] <ubuntu_> thank you was in username no caps could be used
[07:28] <Unit193> username has to be lower
[07:28] <ubuntu_> thank you
[07:28] <ubuntu_> I see that now and should have remembered that
[07:29] <ubuntu_> can you explain why in simple terms?
[07:29] <bazhang> well known bug
[07:29] <ubuntu_> ah
[07:29] <Unit193> bazhang: Real name or username?
[07:29] <ubuntu_> just simply a bug thats it?
[07:29] <ubuntu_> only on username real name and computer name were allowed
[07:30] <ubuntu_> only onusername.
[07:30] <ubuntu_> thank god this keyboard is temp.
[07:31] <ubuntu_> anyone else using xubuntu 10.10 i386 ?
[14:56] <xubuntu501> hi all
[14:57] <knome> ...hello
[14:59] <lighta> hi
[15:34] <xubuntu980> Oi
[21:24] <radikaalz> hello good folks
[21:26] <Unit193> hello radikaalz!
[21:26] <radikaalz> im new to xubuntu... so i will be hard for me. :D
[21:27] <radikaalz> is there anyone willing help me to connect to wi-fi. Now im using 3g modem
[21:28] <Unit193> I'm SSHing into screen right now, so I can't help...
[21:29] <radikaalz> k
[21:29] <radikaalz> ok, i have few questions
[21:29] <Unit193> Wait for the others or look at the docs/wiki
[21:29] <radikaalz> there is no such thing in xubuntu which detects wireless router automaticly
[21:30] <radikaalz> i need to add my router manually, right?
[21:30] <Unit193> There is, look at the top bar toward the right
[21:30] <knome> radikaalz, nm-applet, but that expects your wireless device must have been detected
[21:32] <radikaalz> yes, there is network manager.. i tried to find something so i can connect. At least i have router SSID and key
[21:32] <radikaalz> but must i add which encryption i have too, or xubuntu detect it?
[21:33] <knome> you have to know the encryption as well, yes
[21:33] <radikaalz> oh
[21:33] <knome> there isn't many choices though
[21:33] <knome> most probably wep or wpa2 personal
[21:34] <radikaalz> ok, lets say its wep
[21:35] <knome> radikaalz, can you see any wireless networks in network manager?
[21:35] <radikaalz> i cant connect to router if he's not detected me
[21:35] <radikaalz> no
[21:36] <knome> are you sure your wireless card is recognised?
[21:36] <radikaalz> yes.. cuz i had wireless with backtrack
[21:36] <radikaalz> on an open router
[21:36] <knome> but you're running xubuntu now?
[21:36] <radikaalz> yeah
[21:37] <radikaalz> ehh.. so i just need specific driver?
[21:37] <knome> i'm not sure if backtrack and xubuntu are completely similar in terms of wireless recognition
[21:37] <knome> what does 'iwconfig' say in terminal?
[21:38] <radikaalz> no wireless extensions
[21:39] <radikaalz> oh, i can't even basic linux bash commands. :/
[21:39] <radikaalz> is there some way how to determine my wireless card?
[21:40] <radikaalz> http://wireless.kernel.org/en/users/Drivers/b43 I forgot my wireless cards PCI-ID
[21:42] <radikaalz> anyone?
[21:45] <knome> lspci -vnn ?
[21:45] <radikaalz> yeah
[21:45] <knome> should tell you the pci-id...
[21:45] <radikaalz> i found: mine PCI-ID is [14e4:4727]
[21:46] <knome> says not supported
[21:46] <radikaalz> http://wireless.kernel.org/en/users/Drivers/brcm80211
[21:46] <knome> mm-hmm
[21:46] <knome> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1617380
[21:47] <radikaalz> oh thanks. I'll try, will be back soon :D
[21:49] <Sysi> broadcom is one of the issues i still have about getting macbook air :/
[21:50] <Sysi> i can use restricted nvidia driver and patch kernel for trackpad but i'd want my wifi to be actually trustworthy
[21:55] <radikaalz> oh.. i get tired. There nothing happening after i copy command: git clone git://git.ke.. bla bla bla
[21:57] <radikaalz> it will take a weekend for me to set up wireless :D
[22:06] <Xavier__> hi
[22:06] <knome> hellp
[22:06] <Xavier__> need a bit of help if someone doesnt mind :1)
[22:08] <Xavier__> I've installed xbuntu and everything is fine, get to boot and then the flashing cursor and then it says no signal...
[22:08] <Xavier__> im using onboard graphics chip and it works obviously until the driver i expect is loaded then it goes to no signal
[22:10] <Xavier__> new to liux really so I tried some boot options by loading the install dvd and adding some boot options but im not sure if their the same as os x!  how do you boot safe mode>
[22:11] <Xavier__> I tried  -S -x -v  but that didnt seem to work
[23:26] <Xavier__> hi


[00:53] <mikodo> Well, I am not liking this 13.04 XMir Xubuntu install. It stopped letting me use my sudo password completely, now. I earlier set the root password. That is now acting up, but < su -l >  still works. I am opening gksu apps with that. but it is less than ideal for security, I guess. I don't think this install is long for this world, except to maybe leave it be and if we use it after Aug22/13, well maybe some updates might fix more
[00:53] <mikodo> things.
[00:57] <mikodo> Sorry *13.10 Xubuntu Xmir install
[01:01] <mikodo> What does this mean? < Gtk-WARNING **: GtkNotebook 0xba94b0 is mapped but visible child GtkLabel 0xc2d1a0 is not mapped >
[01:01] <mikodo> Seems every time I open an app with su -l, I get that warning, or another like it.
[01:05] <mikodo> Like this:  (synaptic:3203): Gtk-WARNING **: GtkNotebook 0xba94b0 is mapped but visible child GtkLabel 0xc2d1a0 is not mapped
[01:07] <Unit193> Looks like theme warnings to me, safe to ignore.  Sounds like you're having issues unrelated to XMir, though.
[01:07] <mikodo> Unit193, Thanks for the advice. You're right. It isn't playing nicely with my passwords
[01:17] <knome> mikodo, the usual starting point is "do not use the root account" :)
[01:21] <mikodo> knome, Yay, I guess. I am going to add one more thing about the warnings I am getting to http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-mir and then probably uninstall. You've been great! Thanks.
[01:26] <knome> no problem :)
[07:18] <elfy> knome: no it's not - it's just xubuntu bugs - the only lists I can find on the tracker is general
[08:23] <elendorial> hi
[08:27] <elfy> hi elendorial
[08:30] <elendorial> any idea how i can aid with xubuntu dev?
[08:30] <elfy> well - that's a 'how long's a piece of string' question :)
[08:31] <elfy> it depends on what you can do :)
[08:32] <elfy> elendorial: have you seen the wiki page?
[08:32] <elendorial> i suppose coding, i'm an computer enginner student so i suppose that's relevant
[08:33] <elendorial> yes i've taken a look
[08:33] <elfy> ok - well I'd say coding needs people - but I can't say more than that - as I can't code
[08:34] <elfy> but we are a small team so most of us help with things we can as they turn up
[08:35] <elendorial> i'll take a look at the wiki again, and if i have any questions i'll get back to you
[08:36] <elfy> best thing is to hang around in here talking to people as they turn up to be honest
[08:38] <elendorial> ok
[08:39] <elfy> elendorial: knome will be able to give you a more specific answer
[08:41] <elendorial> ok, i'll ask him
[08:41] <elendorial> thnx!
[08:41] <elfy> welcome
[09:11] <knome> elendorial, i'm on this channel as well, so... :)
[09:11] <elendorial> a ok
[09:12] <knome> elendorial, i would imagine the bugs are tagged xubuntu, qa-tracker
[09:12] <elendorial> well elfy told me i should talk to you
[09:12] <knome> err, elfy
[09:12] <knome> elfy, let's look at that together today if you have time
[09:12] <elfy> knome: okey doke - I'm sort of about most of the day
[09:13] <knome> elfy, ok, give me anything between 15-60 minutes and i'll ping you again :)
[09:13] <elfy> :)
[09:13] <knome> elendorial, so, you would like to help with development. are you familiar with debian packaging? which programming languages?
[09:14] <knome> elendorial, generally, the best way to start is to fix bugs that scratch your own itch
[09:14] <elendorial> no i'm not familiar with debian packaging, i'm pretty much new to linux, however i've programmed in c,c++,java,matlab and cuda
[09:15] <knome> well the good news is that xfce is built with c
[09:15] <knome> xfce being the desktop environment we use
[09:15] <elendorial> yes i know
[09:15] <knome> so a good starting point could be fixing some xfce bugs
[09:15] <ochosi> hey elendorial
[09:15] <knome> (if possible, upstream)
[09:15] <ochosi> yeah, that's indeed a good start
[09:16] <ochosi> there are a few projects in xfce-upstream that some folks from xubuntu are involved in
[09:16] <ochosi> like parole
[09:16] <ochosi> bluesabre and me are maintaining that
[09:16] <knome> we're quite late in the cycle re: any new features, but bugfixes you can still get in
[09:16] <ochosi> but generally speaking knome is right, find the app or service that you'd like to improve and then start looking at bugs
[09:17] <ochosi> you can also check with us first if you want and we can tell you about our xp with the maintainers/devs of that app
[09:17] <elendorial> xfce is at version 4.10 now, right?
[09:17] <ochosi> yup
[09:18] <elendorial> ok, so i suppose i should start reading about xfce
[09:18] <elendorial> :P
[09:18] <ochosi> mostly you'll need gtk and c for xfce
[09:18] <ochosi> (language-wise)
[09:21] <ochosi> gotta go now
[09:21] <ochosi> elendorial: feel free to ping me, i always read the backlog (if you need more pointers)
[09:21] <elendorial> ok, thanks!
[09:21] <ochosi> bluesabre: i haven't gotten the gtk3 plugins to work in the gtk2 panel yet
[09:22] <ochosi> bluesabre: most likely a library linkage problem, i'd say. but i need to get a hold of andrzejr first and ask him
[09:22] <ochosi> bluesabre: if you wanna try yourself, get the andrzjer/wrapper3 branch and the indicator-plugin1.0 (both from git) and install them, then also add a line to the indicator-plugin's desktop-file to enable gtk3
[09:23] <ochosi> bluesabre: X-XFCE-Gtk3=TRUE (i think, better check again in git to be sure)
[09:41] <knome> elfy, is this what you're looking for: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.searchtext=%22InstallationMedia%3A+Xubuntu%22&orderby=-importance&search=Search&field.status%3Alist=NEW&field.status%3Alist=CONFIRMED&field.status%3Alist=TRIAGED&field.status%3Alist=INPROGRESS&field.status%3Alist=FIXCOMMITTED&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&assignee_option=any&field.assignee=&field.bug
[09:41] <knome> huh
[09:41] <knome> http://tinyurl.com/xubuntu-iso-bug
[09:43] <knome> elfy, that searches anything that has the "iso-testing" tag and "InstallationMedia: Xubuntu" in the description
[09:43] <knome> elfy, you could also filter that with the release tag, eg. saucy
[09:44] <knome> that would be: http://tinyurl.com/xubuntu-iso-bug-saucy
[09:46] <elfy> that's close to what I got manuall
[09:46] <elfy> y
[09:46] <knome> is something missing then?
[09:46] <knome> maybe something that's first reported on ubuntu, then added to one of the xubuntu tests?
[09:47] <knome> i'd say those would generally be to less interest to us, since it's not xubuntu specific, or at least somebody has "had" it in other ISOs
[09:47] <knome> also see what i just asked from stgraber in #ubuntu-quality
[09:47] <elfy> knome: I agree with we only want xubuntu specific stuff
[09:48] <elfy> and with the question in -quality :)
[09:48] <knome> some bugs first reported with other ISOs could be high importance for us (especially if those other flavors wouldn't be interested in fixing such bugs)
[09:49] <elfy> at which point you're back to manually sorting through things
[09:49] <knome> well, kind of
[09:49] <knome> but i don't think that's a huge problem
[09:49] <knome> those bugs are going to be rare, and they're going to be something we will be aware of
[09:49] <knome> eg. breaks all xubuntu installations, has broken one lubuntu installation :P
[09:50] <elfy> :)
[09:50] <knome> and i would also consider the manual effort a waste of time if we can get this far with automatic filtering
[09:51] <knome> if we need to track any other bug than those in that list, just link it to a status-tracker blueprint
[09:51] <elfy> the other part of the issue micah and I were talking about still needs to be addressed - looking for what he wanted
[09:52] <knome> and that is?
 5 columns: issue, bug # (optional), autopilot, autopkgtest, person responsible
[09:53] <knome> hmh
[09:53] <elfy> what we were looking at was what people were seeing during install and what could be looked at for automatic testing
[09:54] <knome> micahg, care to elaborate with that? ^
[09:54] <knome> i'm wondering if there was a way to half-automate that
[09:54] <knome> if not else, we could do the tracking in a LP blueprint, so the statuses would be autoupdated
[09:55] <knome> or as much auto as updating a bug status in LP is - you just wouldn't need to do that on the wiki as well
[09:55] <elfy> yea - though micahg was looking at having something that spanned releases
[09:56] <knome> a blueprint can do that
[09:56] <knome> it's not necessary to tie that to the status, or if we want to, we can still always just link it under the new umbrella blueprint
[09:59] <elfy> yep
[09:59] <elfy> obviously I'm happy to do it whichever way is easiest - I just hate trying to search for anything on LP
[10:00] <knome> heh
[10:00] <knome> just ask someone else for the LP-fu ;)
[10:01] <elfy> :)
[10:03] <elfy> knome: so how are you getting it for saucy?
[10:05] <knome> elfy, go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?advanced=1
[10:05] <elfy> done that and got "InstallationMedia: Xubuntu"
[10:05] <knome> elfy, search terms are: "InstallationMedia: Xubuntu" (with the quotes)
[10:06] <knome> then tags are
[10:06] <knome> iso-testing saucy
[10:06] <knome> and check "All"
[10:06] <knome> and then search
[10:06] <elfy> aaah - tags :p
[10:06] <knome> yup
[10:06] <knome> http://tinyurl.com/xubuntu-iso-bug-saucy
[10:06] <knome> if you need a short url
[10:07] <elfy> no - that's fine - just needed a point to the fu :D
[10:07] <elfy> thanks knome
[10:08] <knome> np
[10:08] <elfy> tbh in 7 years of fiddling about with LP - IU had never noticed the advanced search thing lol
[10:09] <elfy> on the other hand I'd never really needed to use it before 6 months ago
[10:09] <knome> heh
[10:09] <knome> yeah, it's kind of hidden, but really powerful..
[10:09] <elfy> yep
[10:11] <elfy> ok - so aas you say, a blueprint perhaps to do the remainder - might be best to talk with micahg and get to what works for all of us
[10:11] <knome> definitely
[10:12] <knome> i don't mind if you want to track it manually, but i'd say there would be other ways that are more automated, an in turn also help with tracking the process generally better
[10:12] <elfy> in the meantime - I'm trying to use a vb to write the greeter testcase without logging in and losing access to half of it when I logout
[10:12] <knome> a wikipage is always an island
[10:12] <knome> vb, visual basic?
[10:12] <knome> ;)
[10:12] <knome> oh, virtualbox
[10:12] <elfy> I don't 'want' to do it manually - I'd rather do it automatically - this seesm to be the way
[10:12] <knome> you could use your shell from pleia2 as well :)
[10:13] <elfy> yea ;)
[10:13] <elfy> shell?
[10:13] <knome> the thing you are logging into when you are connecting to forestpiskie
[10:13] <knome> it's a debian system iirc
[10:13] <elfy> yea I know what it is - not seeing how that can help me
[10:13] <elfy> oic
[10:13] <knome> before you enter screen, just type "nano filename" ;)
[10:14] <elfy> nah - I can write the logged out bit before logging in - then login to get the other little bits:)
[10:14] <knome> hehe
[10:20] <knome> bbl
[10:21] <elfy> ok
[10:21] <elfy> I'm away this afternoon now - back tomorrow
[10:54] <lderan> knome, this right http://lderan.co.uk/ringtail.png ? :P
[11:08] <elfy> ochosi: I've done the greeter testcase - from memory - affected by the bug that stops it all working if I login
[11:08] <elfy> just waiting for approval etc
[11:19] <elfy> knome: when you are back - can we deal with these archived testcases of our's?
[20:09] <Noskcaj> I'm about to make a sync bug for desktop-profiles. Is someone able to sync it?
[20:13] <Noskcaj> bug 1213452
[21:26] <knome> lderan, looks great. now we just need to decide what we want for xubuntu, then MP the branch and announce the usage.
[21:26] <lderan> cool :)
[21:27] <knome> i'll probably boot up my desktop machine in a bit, can work a bit better there
[21:41] <knome> lderan, so, when you're ready, please push to a branch and do a MP
[21:42] <lderan> will do
[21:43] <lderan> its been pushed to my own branch already
[21:43] <knome> that'll do fine as well
[21:44] <lderan> shall i revert the changes to the welcome page in the slideshow for the xubuntu set or leave them as an example?
[21:44] <knome> umm,
[21:44] <knome> we modified that part a bit
[21:44] <knome> i suppose there will be a conflict anyway....
[22:27] <lderan> aye


[00:26] <zul> zul
[00:27] <highvoltage> highvoltage
[00:28] <highvoltage> TIMMEAH
[00:42] <nigelb> highvoltage: heh
[03:57] <didrocks> cjwatson: skaet: FYI, nux and unity uploaded, release well tested :)
[03:57] <didrocks> now more than time to go to bed, see you tomorrow
[03:57] <skaet> didrocks:  awesome.    thanks!   sleep well.
[03:57] <didrocks> thanks :)
[08:55] <ogra_> lamont, Calling command: /home/buildd/bin/BuildLiveCD -f ext3 -s omap4 -d natty ubuntu-headless
[08:55] <ogra_> ssh: connect to host acorn.buildd port 22: No route to host
[08:55] <ogra_> acorn.buildd finished at Thu Mar 24 08:38:03 UTC 2011 (failed)
[13:46] <zul> does anyone know what happened to the amd64 iso for server today?
[13:47] <ogra_> did you check the logs?
[13:48] <zul> where are the logs?
[13:49] <ogra_> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/
[13:49] <ogra_> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/cd-build-logs/ubuntu-server/natty/ for server
[13:51] <zul> ogra_: thanks
[14:15] <cjwatson> zul: I've fixed the overrides for the next publisher run
[14:16] <zul> cjwatson: cool thanks..
[14:16] <cjwatson> (some packages were at Priority: required when they shouldn't have been, due to a snafu in NEW)
[14:51] <Riddell> is this acceptable? https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-archive/2011-March/040160.html  linking to sources on sourceforge to comply with MPL/GPL obligations, I would say not since the files on sourceforge might disappear
[14:53] <cjwatson> I'd tend to agree, we should meet our source distribution obligations without the aid of third parties
[14:53] <cjwatson> if nothing else it's in our own interest to do so
[14:53] <cjwatson> (though I haven't read the exact terms of the MPL here)
[15:12] <ScottK> Would a copy of the source at p.u.c be sufficient?
[15:13] <cjwatson> why can't it go in the package?
[15:14] <cjwatson> it doesn't have to be built from it if the governing licence doesn't require that; but we have a perfectly good standard way to distribute source, I'm not sure why we wouldn't want to use it
[15:14] <ScottK> Makes sense.
[15:16] <ScottK> cjwatson: I discussed adding mx51images for Headless and Kubuntu with skaet last night and she was in favor.  I also confirmed that the hardware I have to test them is functional with that subarch (and doesn't need a separate one of it's own).  Would you be able to help me out with getting the images started?
[15:17] <cjwatson> ScottK: possibly, what's involved?
[15:17] <ScottK> cjwatson: For Headless it should be just another subarch build.
[15:18] <ScottK> I'm not sure what exactly needs to be done for that.
[15:18] <cjwatson> well, what's the required image format like?
[15:19] <ScottK> I don't know more than 'like the ompa3/4 images'
[15:24] <cjwatson> I think we used to have i.MX51 images.  Would it be sufficient to resurrect them?
[15:25] <cjwatson> in fact, the code's still in debian-cd for natty, just not built
[15:25] <ScottK> It should be.
[15:25] <cjwatson> what kernel should be used?
[15:25] <cjwatson> we'll need a d-i build against it
[15:25] <ScottK> It's built out of the linaro kernel.
[15:25] <ScottK> let me look
[15:26] <ScottK> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-linaro-mx51
[15:27] <cjwatson> good, it has udebs at least
[15:42] <seb128> should bug #727726 be assigned to someone or milestoned? it's still an issue
[15:42] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 727726 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Natty) (and 1 other project) "gnome panel is about 4px instead of 30 on install (affects: 2) (heat: 177)" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/727726
[15:45] <seb128> the current custom partioner screen and tz selection page don't fit on a 1024x600 screen also
[15:45] <seb128> there is bug #732068 and a serie of others in launchpad
[15:45] <seb128> but none seems targetted for natty
[15:45] <ubot4`> seb128: Bug 732068 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/732068 is private
[15:46] <seb128> bug #732068
[15:46] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 732068 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "partitioning part of LiveCD installer doesn't fit on 1024x600 screen (affects: 1) (heat: 254)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/732068
[15:46] <seb128> it's not? stupid bot :p
[15:49] <cjwatson> ev: ^- FYI
[15:49] <ev> indeed, on my hit list via a separate bug
[15:49] <ev> marking as a duplicate now
[15:49] <seb128> ev: thanks
[15:50] <seb128> ev: btw we were discussing ubuntu-geonames with desktopers yesterday, do you know if the fact that the locations are not translated would be easy to fix for natty?
[15:51] <seb128> not sure where the datas are coming from and if the translated infos are available
[15:52] <ev> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-geonames/+bug/729022
[15:52] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 729022 in indicator-datetime (Ubuntu Natty) (and 5 other projects) "Locations in the settings are not localized (affects: 1) (heat: 10)" [Low,Invalid]
[15:53] <ev> mterry and I talked through it a bit yesterday in #ubuntu-installer
[15:53] <ev> I don't know if I'll have time for that, but fortunately it's a largely a server-side problem
[15:53] <seb128> ev: right, the question is rather "is that something easy to fix, or is the current database you use not providing what is needed"
[15:53] <ev> we can anticipate the eventual change by passing the locale as an argument to the url
[15:53] <ev> the database has it
[15:54] <seb128> ev: or asked differently "should we look at using libgweather for the indicator to fix that issue"
[15:54] <seb128> which is what the GNOME applet uses
[15:54] <seb128> it has its locations translated
[15:54] <ev> it has a table of translated names
[15:54] <seb128> ok
[15:54] <seb128> so let's try to fix it
[15:54] <seb128> ev: thanks ;-)
[15:55] <ev> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/03/23/%23ubuntu-installer.html around 14:24
[15:55] <ev> sure
[23:00] <slangasek> lamont: do you know why https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libgd2/2.0.36~rc1~dfsg-5ubuntu2/+buildjob/2342500 is starting in 1 minute for 30 minutes?  Is that within tolerance for launchpad's ability to predict start times, or is something wedged? :)
[23:19] <Daviey> I thought https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gcj-4.5/4.5.2-7ubuntu1/+buildjob/2342162 looked wedged... but seems it does take a long time!  took 18 hours, 35 min to build on Maverick.. that is awful.  (compared with 2.5 hours on amd64)
[23:30] <slangasek> right, libgd2 is building now, so 'sallgood
[23:31] <doko> Daviey: don't worry about java core packages, take care of eucalyptus ;p
[23:32]  * slangasek chuckles


[12:49] <asac> no it was i386
[12:49] <asac> anyway ... you said you respin anyway ... so lets see if things get fixed for iceape
[12:52] <asac> if you have clean rebuild with 1.1.4-7 installed, then there should be no problem.
[12:54] <asac> Package: iceape-browser
[12:54] <asac> Version: 1.1.1-3.mt6
[12:54] <asac> Depends: libatk1.0-0 (>= 1.13.1), libc6 (>= 2.5-0ubuntu1), libcairo2 (>= 1.4.2), libfontconfig1 (>= 2.4.0), libfreetype6 (>= 2.2), libgcc1 (>= 1:4.1.2), libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.12.9), libgtk2.0-0 (>= 2.10.3), libhunspell-1.1-0 (>= 1.1.5-1), ....
[12:54] <asac> thats what i get from apt-cache
[12:55] <asac> so ...
[12:55] <asac> :)
[12:55] <asac> i am out ... its late here
[01:36] <gnomefreak> thats the same thing i get but looking in control it doesnt say that. i was thinking where else i changed it and couldnt think of anywhere. night
[01:37] <gnomefreak> ha its the damn patch
[01:39] <gnomefreak> ok disabled patch and respinning
[03:43] <asac> anyone here?
[03:44] <asac> gnomefreak: can you send me the diff you currently have against iceape et al ... i would like to review and update bzr with your changes
[03:45] <asac> no hurry ... will do earliest tomorrow from what i can tell of todays motivation :)
[04:05] <hjmf> howdy!
[04:05] <hjmf> I'm around here for a while :)
[04:49] <asac> hi
[04:49] <asac> :)
[04:50] <gnomefreak> asac: yeah ill post it
[04:50] <asac> good
[04:51] <gnomefreak> holy crap
[04:51] <gnomefreak> hmmm
[04:51] <gnomefreak> a little bigger than i thought
[04:53] <gnomefreak> im loading so you can wget it
[04:54] <gnomefreak> asac: wget http://gnomefreak.youmortals.com/Feisty/iceape_1.1.1-3.mt7.diffigz
[04:54] <gnomefreak> shoot
[04:54] <gnomefreak> asac: wget http://gnomefreak.youmortals.com/Feisty/iceape_1.1.1-3.mt7.diff.gz
[04:55] <asac> no the diff against bzur
[04:55] <asac> aeh ... against svn
[04:55] <asac> with svn diff
[04:56] <gnomefreak> ok give me a minute im gonna finish up repo stuff real fast
[05:01] <gnomefreak> ok repo is back up
[05:03] <gnomefreak> asac: http://gnomefreak.pastebin.ca/452802
[05:03] <gnomefreak> brb
[05:51] <gnomefreak> i left the patch in there and just disabled it (80_hunspell) so it makes life easy when hunspell is merged
[06:20] <bur[n] er> hola... gnomefreak, you still here?
[06:20] <gnomefreak> !moztest
[06:20] <ubotu> The Mozilla-testing repos can be found at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/PreviewArchives. Please remember these are testing repos, the packages in these repos are not stable and may break things on your system. Use with caution.
[06:20] <gnomefreak> bur[n] er: ^^^
[06:20] <bur[n] er> danke
[06:21] <gnomefreak> bur[n] er: 1.99.release+2.0-1 is final release build
[06:21] <bur[n] er> i've been using 2.0 successfully for awhile now, but never had a proper .deb that overwrites 1.5
[06:22] <gnomefreak> ok just sent post to Ml of the fixes that were commited in repo for iceape and upgrades to tb and trunk
[06:22] <bur[n] er> it's weird how they changed config directories, do you handle this in your package?
[06:23] <gnomefreak> what do you mean? the changes in config are taken care of from debian/rules
[06:23] <gnomefreak> mozconfig file im assuming you are talking about
[06:23] <bur[n] er> ooh... thunderbird-gnome-support is in this repo too... how nice :)
[06:23] <gnomefreak> yes its all packages with thunderbird
[06:24] <bur[n] er> i'm talking about how they changed ot use ~/.thunderbird instead of ~/.mozilla-thunderbird
[06:24] <gnomefreak> it uses same profile i havent looked but shouldnt change
[06:25] <gnomefreak> you will need to install enigmail from the extenstion page also
[06:25] <bur[n] er> awww... the "official" package from getthunderbird.org uses ~/.thunderbird, but your pack uses ~/.mozilla-thunderbird still... i have my old settings
[06:25] <gnomefreak> it still uses ~/.mozilla-thunderbird
[06:28] <gnomefreak> this may not be the same for gutsy and we are not really done with feistys version either for our repo. when you install it let me know if you have unmet depends on anything there were some changes we made and i want to see if a freash install of it fixed these depends
[06:30] <bur[n] er> it works
[06:30] <bur[n] er> mine is not "fresh" though... I had 1.5
[06:33] <gnomefreak> thats fine
[06:34] <bur[n] er> should I upgrade to libnspr4-0d from feisty's <IP_ADDRESS> to your 4.6.6 ?
[06:35] <bur[n] er> that seems like a helluva jump
[06:35] <gnomefreak> yes
[06:35] <bur[n] er> the firefox package seems broken
[06:36] <gnomefreak> bur[n] er: without libnspr4-0d and libnss3-od nothing will work
[06:36] <gnomefreak> bur[n] er: define broken? and what firefox package?
[06:37] <bur[n] er> uhh... i can't upgrade, i'll brb though
[06:38] <gnomefreak> bur[n] er: when you get back please show me what it says
[06:41] <bur[n] er> firefox: Depends: libhunspell-1.1-0 (>= 1.1.5-1) but 1.1.4-7 is to be installed
[06:41] <gnomefreak> bur[n] er: ok ty i will respin
[06:41] <gnomefreak> there is a leftover patch (i just fixed that in iceape)
[06:41] <bur[n] er> yw, thanks for the repo :)
[06:42] <gnomefreak> bur[n] er: i should have it done within 18 hours
[06:42] <bur[n] er> whatever, firefox is <IP_ADDRESS> in feisty :)  thunderbird 1.5 just isn't as cool though
[06:42] <gnomefreak> ill start on it now
[06:46] <gnomefreak> asac: you around still?
[06:48] <gnomefreak> asac: when you get time take a look in firefox 2.0.0.x that we built for repo. it has hunspell patch but it looks like it is 2+ patches combined to use hunspell instead of myspell is this also deciding the version of it. let me know if you need it ill post it somewhere. but its still depending on 1.1.5
[06:50] <gnomefreak> * Rebuilt using hunspell 1.1.4-7 instead of version 1.1.5-6  as i did with iceape but iceape had the patch is fx the same patch differnet name?
[06:52] <bur[n] er> gnomefreak: you're a genius and a hero... thanks again!  If I can do anything else, just ask... I plan on idling here and will be in and out all day
[06:52] <gnomefreak> k
[06:53] <gnomefreak> ill be in and out today
[07:02] <gnomefreak> bug #94392
[07:02] <gnomefreak> bug 94392
[07:02] <ubotu> Malone bug 94392 in firefox "Broken URL in /etc/firefox/firefoxrc" [Low,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/94392
[07:06] <gnomefreak> hmmmmm
[07:11] <gnomefreak> bur[n] er: ill fix it as soon as i can
[07:14] <asac> gnomefreak: don't touch patches ... they are right
[07:15] <asac> as i said ... its just a rebuild ... nothing more
[08:52] <gnomefreak> asac: i already rebuilt it on the feisty version of hunspell but ill run it again and see if it changes
[08:57] <therealnanotube> hello, anyone around?
[08:57] <gnomefreak> therealnanotube: sort of
[08:57] <therealnanotube> heh, good enough :)
[08:57] <therealnanotube> i have a question about the mozilla software releases pgp key. not really an "ubuntu" problem, but i don't know where else to ask.
[08:58] <therealnanotube> question is - what pgp/gpg keyserver actually stores the mozilla pgp keys?
[08:58] <therealnanotube> it used to be on subkeys.pgp.net, but now it appears that it's not there anymore
[08:58] <gnomefreak> therealnanotube: might want to try #mozilla or irc.mozilla.org and join #mozilla
[08:58] <therealnanotube> ok, i will give it a shot. thanks :)
[08:58] <gnomefreak> yw
[09:01] <asac> gnomefreak: if you rebuild on feisty with right hunspell then everything should be fine ... why do you think it isn't?
[09:01] <gnomefreak> asac: because i rebuilt it on feisty with feistys hunspell and it didnt fix it i did it just before i did iceape and iceape was a patch issue
[09:02] <asac> i still don't get what you say with "a patch issue"
[09:04] <gnomefreak> i rebuilt everything on hunspell 1.1.4-7 and it was still asking for 1.1.5* even after changing build-deps removing the 80_hunspell patch fixed this issue. i know the patch is supposed to only make it depend on hunspell instead of myspell but something is wrong than
[09:05] <asac> don't remove any patch
[09:05] <asac> thats non-sense
[09:05] <gnomefreak> in iceape changing depends to 1.1.4-7 did nothing to the final build it still depended on 1.1.5
[09:05] <asac> it definitly has to do with you having wrong hunspell installed udring build
[09:06] <asac> you must not change anything
[09:06] <asac> no depends no nothing
[09:06] <asac> just have the right hunspell versions installed
[09:06] <gnomefreak> hunspell:
[09:06] <gnomefreak>   Installed: 1.1.4-7
[09:06] <gnomefreak>   Candidate: 1.1.4-7
[09:06] <gnomefreak>   Version table:
[09:06] <gnomefreak>  *** 1.1.4-7 0
[09:06] <gnomefreak>         500 http://archive.ubuntu.com feisty/universe Packages
[09:06] <gnomefreak>         100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
[09:06] <asac> not that package
[09:06] <asac> the -dev package
[09:06] <asac> libhunspell*dev
[09:06] <gnomefreak> :(
[09:07] <asac> just look at build-depends ... and see what version that package has
[09:07] <asac> and please don't remove any patch
[09:07] <asac> your current build now doesn't use hunspell at all
[09:08] <gnomefreak> it will
[09:08] <asac> (feisty32)root@hector:/home/asac# dpkg -l libhunspell*
[09:08] <asac> Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold
[09:08] <asac> | Status=Not/Installed/Config-files/Unpacked/Failed-config/Half-installed
[09:08] <asac> |/ Err?=(none)/Hold/Reinst-required/X=both-problems (Status,Err: uppercase=bad)
[09:08] <asac> ||/ Name                Version             Description
[09:08] <asac> +++-[09:08] <asac> ii  libhunspell-1.1-0   1.1.4-7             spell checker and morphological analyzer (shared libra
[09:08] <asac> ii  libhunspell-dev     1.1.4-7             spell checker and morphological analyzer (development)
[09:08] <asac> thats what you need ... and you probably don't have them
[09:08] <asac> but 1.1.5
[09:09] <gnomefreak> it was libhunspell (i searched for libhunspell but i needed the 1.1-0 :(
[09:09] <gnomefreak> its being fixed
[09:10] <asac> gnomefreak: take care that you revert everything you changed now
[09:10] <asac> no patch drop nothing .) ... then everything should be right
[09:10] <therealnanotube> for now, no luck getting any help on irc.mozilla.org.... :(
[09:11] <gnomefreak> i am it will take rest of day but everything will be rebuilt
[09:11] <asac> therealnanotube: use google ... the key is somewhere on mozilla site
[09:11] <asac> gnomefreak: cool
[09:12] <therealnanotube> asac: i have found the key on google, that's no problem. but i want to know a pgp key server, so that i can import it easily with "gpg --keyserver subkeys.pgp.net --recv 1AF32821"
[09:12] <therealnanotube> asac: subkeys.pgp.net used to work, but now it doesn't have the key anymore, it appears...
[09:12] <asac> just import it manually
[09:12] <asac> no need for keyserver
[09:12] <asac> if you have it you can publish it on your own
[09:13] <therealnanotube> asac: i'm doing this so that i can update my "installnewfirefox.sh" script
[09:13] <therealnanotube> asac: so manual import is not really a good option :)
[09:14] <asac> depending on net is definitly even a worse option
[09:14] <asac> best ship the key with your script
[09:14] <asac> and always import manually
[09:15] <therealnanotube> asac: the script already depends on the net, because it has to download the firefox and thunderbird tar.gz anyway. but... including the key in the script seems like a good option, if i fail to find an "official" keyserver that mozilla uses.
[09:15] <asac> there is nothing like official keyserver
[09:15] <asac> and btw, the key is still everywhere
[09:15] <asac> dunno what you do
[09:16] <asac> and you cannot trust what you get from keyservers
[09:16] <asac> so you have to included trust-info in your script anyway.
[09:16] <asac> so ... just include the key :)
[09:17] <asac> otherwise, gpg --search-keys<EMAIL_ADDRESS>will give you the key
[09:17] <therealnanotube> asac: heh well, ok, i guess you have convinced me. ;)
[09:20] <asac> therealnanotube: its real ... i mean the whole gpg verification is worth nothing as the key you get from the keyserver is not more trustworthy then the tarball you download from ftp.mozilla.org
[09:20] <gnomefreak> asac: did you change firefox bzr by chance?
[09:20] <asac> what changes do you want?
[09:20] <gnomefreak> none just asking if you did
[09:21] <asac> no ... see if merge brings in new changes though
[09:21] <asac> or better pull
[09:21] <gnomefreak> im installing bzr now
[09:22] <asac> you reinstallted system or why is it gone?
[09:22] <asac> gnomefreak: howver, i guess there are no new changes
[09:22] <therealnanotube> asac: well, i know that. but it's harder to compromise both the ftp.mozilla.org, and a keyserver, than just ftp.mozilla.org, plus it serves as a simple download integrity verifier as well. so it's better than nothing. :) and besides, for a third party, trusting subkeys.pgp.net is better than trusting some key i include in the script.
[09:24] <asac> sure ... its your script :)
[09:25] <therealnanotube> asac: heh, well /i/ trust it, but the numerous random people who download and use it really have no reason to. ;)
[09:27] <asac> please ensure that users know that the software they use is not supported by distributor
[09:28] <asac> e.g. PLEASE don't report issues with that software to ubuntu
[09:31] <asac> therealnanotube: ^^^^ +
[09:32] <therealnanotube> asac: was that "issues with software" stuff directed at me?
[09:32] <asac> yes
[09:32] <asac> its about a warning which would be nice
[09:34] <therealnanotube> aaah i see. i thought you were telling me not to report issues to ubuntu. :)
[09:35] <therealnanotube> the script already tells users to report any problems to me personally, rather than to ubuntu.
[09:40] <therealnanotube> anyway, thanks for your help. :) i'm gettin' outta here.
[11:09] <gnomefreak> maybe closer to tomorrow before the repo gets updated with the new packages
[11:29] <cjn> status of this bug is "needs info", can someone add a comment explaining what info is needed? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/99368
[11:29] <ubotu> Malone bug 99368 in firefox "SVG rotation renderization broken" [Undecided,Needs info]
[11:43] <asac> cjn: please add mt-confirm tag
[11:43] <asac> i will look at it on next bug day then
[11:43] <asac> "Needs Info" without a tag is always wrong
[11:44] <asac> no doubt a reason that there was no progress so far on this bug so far
[11:45] <asac> we are working on tools to find such triaging bugs ... sorry for the inconvenience
[11:46] <asac> cjn: so just add the tag and it will be processed
[11:48] <gnomefreak> i added tag
[11:48] <asac> gnomefreak: fine ;)
[11:48] <gnomefreak> :)
[11:48] <asac> gnomefreak: we have a list of triaging bugs here:
[11:48] <asac> http://daniel.holba.ch/bugs/firefox.html
[11:48] <asac> those are bughelper results
[11:49] <gnomefreak> ok i will look at it this week. right now too much cpu usage
[11:49] <asac> "Wrong Status/Tag-Combination for Status 'XXX' are those that need some tag
[11:49] <asac> probably lots can be closed
[11:49] <gnomefreak> ok book marked
[11:49] <asac> gnomefreak: sure ;)
[11:50] <gnomefreak> :)
[11:50] <asac> problem is that that list is regenerated every 2 hours
[11:50] <asac> and that for about 1.5 hours the file is still growing
[11:50] <gnomefreak> no problem at all once i start working on it
[11:50] <asac> so sometimes you look at that page and see just 20 issues :)
[11:50] <asac> an hour later you see 150
[11:51] <gnomefreak> let it build up. i will get it under control best i can :)
[11:51] <asac> i will talk to dholbach so only complete lists will be visible there
[11:51] <gnomefreak> asac: dont forget to register nick with ubotu
[11:51] <asac> ah right
[11:51] <asac> ;)
[11:51] <asac> what was it?
[11:51] <gnomefreak> ummmmm
[11:51] <asac>  msg obuto register asac xxxx
[11:51] <asac> ?
[11:51] <asac> ok found it
[11:51] <asac>  /msg ubotu register nickname password
[11:51] <gnomefreak> shit
[11:52] <gnomefreak> ok /msg ubotu register asac password
[11:52] <asac> hmm ubotu doesn't like me
[11:52] <asac> :)
[11:52] <asac> Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
[11:52] <gnomefreak> i figured as much why would it be that simple
[11:52] <asac> ;)
[11:53] <gnomefreak> %help register
[11:53] <asac> !help register
[11:53] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about help register - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[11:53] <gnomefreak> @help register
[11:53] <asac> maybe its not ubotu?
[11:53] <asac> ubotu: help
[11:53] <ubotu> I am ubotu, all-knowing infobot. You can browse my brain at http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl - Usage info: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBots
[11:53] <asac> ubotu: help register
[11:53] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about help register - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[11:54] <gnomefreak> im asking about the command atm that is the one given to me yesterday
[11:54] <gnomefreak> asac: try without the nick
[11:54] <asac> hmmm looks like its the way its documented in wiki ... but doesn't work
[11:54] <asac> ok will try without nick
[11:55] <asac> still doesn't like me
[11:55] <gnomefreak> still?
[11:55] <asac> yes
[11:55] <asac> guess i have to go into ubuntu-ops
[11:55] <asac> and ask for manual registration
[11:56] <gnomefreak> im waiting for answer
[11:56] <gnomefreak> the person that is answering me thinks i mean freenode :(
[11:56] <gnomefreak> %help
[11:56] <ubotu> (help [<plugin>]  [<command>] ) -- This command gives a useful description of what <command> does. <plugin> is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin.
[11:57] <asac> %help register
[11:57] <gnomefreak> %help identify
[11:57] <ubotu> (identify <name> <password>) -- Identifies the user as <name>. This command (and all other commands that include a password) must be sent to the bot privately, not in a channel.
[11:57] <asac> %help register
[11:57] <asac> %help register
[11:57] <asac> hmmm no command "register"
[11:57] <gnomefreak> noticed that
[11:57] <asac> %help acommands
[11:57] <asac> %help commands
[11:57] <asac> %help ALL
[11:57] <gnomefreak> %list commands
[11:58] <gnomefreak> ever since bots were merged i have a hard time remembering commands
[11:58] <asac> guess no luck for me then :)
[11:59] <asac> %help factoid
[11:59] <asac> %help factoids
[11:59] <asac> ubotu: you suck
[11:59] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about you suck - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[11:59] <asac> tell asac about register
[11:59] <asac> :)
[11:59] <asac> !tell asac about register
[11:59] <gnomefreak> :)
[12:00] <gnomefreak> thats for freenode :)
[12:00] <asac> hmm
[12:01] <asac> then i am already identified
[12:01] <asac> what the hell does ubotu want from me?
[12:01] <gnomefreak> he wants you to register with him.
[12:01] <asac> hehe
[12:02] <asac> ubotu: register or die :)
[12:02] <asac> ubotu: forget it
[12:02] <gnomefreak> now try it
[12:03] <gnomefreak> with nick and password
[12:03] <asac> ups
[12:03] <asac> he thinks that i really want him to forget something
[12:03] <gnomefreak> we know we got the post :)
[12:03] <asac> yeah
[12:03] <asac> worked
[12:03] <gnomefreak> did it work?
[12:03] <asac> what was wrong?
[12:03] <gnomefreak> ok cool
[12:03] <gnomefreak> it wasnt enabled
[12:03] <asac> k
[12:04] <asac> no i am identified ;)
[12:04] <gnomefreak> %addeditor asac
[12:04] <ubotu> OK
[12:04] <gnomefreak> asac: ther eyou go :)
[12:04] <asac> great ;) ... now i need a reason to edit i guess ;)
[12:04] <asac> maybe tomorrow
[12:04] <asac> i will have some ;)
[12:04] <asac> thanks!
[12:04] <gnomefreak> yw
[12:07] <asac> gnomefreak: i am really happy that we now fixed the libhunspell mess for you ... it somehow blocked you i guess ;)
[12:08] <asac> endless respins et al :)
[12:08] <asac> hopefully gutsy will open soon so we can move tbird 2.0 in
[12:08] <asac> and all the other stuff ... and concentrate on patch testing for preview archive again
[12:09] <asac> this transition testing needs just lots of packages and i am sorry that you finally had to deal with that many things
[12:09] <asac> at least since you just got started
[12:09] <gnomefreak> it opened
[12:09] <asac> it was quite a huge thing to start with ... e.g. hosting archive to transition
[12:09] <asac> gutsy?
[12:09] <gnomefreak> toolchain is sort of there
[12:10] <gnomefreak> yes but no chroot
[12:10] <asac> sort of is probably not good enough :)
[12:10] <asac> what happens if you run debootstrap gutsy?
[12:10] <gnomefreak> its there i heard 2 updates to it
[12:10] <gnomefreak> i get error no gutsy in debootstrap
[12:10] <gnomefreak> i can give you error in a minute
[12:10] <asac> ah ok ... we probably have to wait for a bit more than the toolchain anyay
[12:11] <gnomefreak> thats what i was thinking
[12:11] <gnomefreak> but hoping before alpha1
[12:11] <asac> actually we need gtk+ stuff which is pretty high in the foodchain :)
[12:11] <asac> yeah definitly
[12:11] <gnomefreak> true
[12:11] <asac> i want things in a week or two ready for us
[12:11] <gnomefreak> WE need alot before we can add anything
[12:12] <asac> yeah
[12:12] <asac> ;)
[12:12] <gnomefreak> it wont happen (im betting on that)
[12:12] <asac> but we could upload our sources... which will wait there until everything is avail
[12:12] <gnomefreak> true
[12:12] <asac> hmmm ... so probably preview archive will stay that size ... and even grow more
[12:13] <gnomefreak> im assuming the OO.o people maintain hunspell (may take a while to get new version in)
[12:13] <asac> enigmail ... locales ... wuold be really good i guess
[12:13] <gnomefreak> asac: i will make gutsy repo soon
[12:13] <gnomefreak> those would be great :)
[12:13] <asac> yes thats good ... i would like to reduce feisty repo to just carry tbird 2.0 backports (+enigmail + locales) and firefox-trunk again
[12:13] <asac> all development should go into gutsy
[12:14] <gnomefreak> if its ready
[12:14] <asac> then our repo will again ship patches which we need feedback
[12:14] <asac> ah ;)
[12:15] <gnomefreak> the people testing the repo seem to be testing the shit we dont NEED tested
[12:15] <asac> hmmm
[12:15] <asac> gutsy Packages.gz is already 1.2Mb
[12:15] <gnomefreak> iceape is main one
[12:15] <asac> so probably its all there already
[12:15] <gnomefreak> asac: i have to clean it out
[12:15] <gnomefreak> i have 4 versions of crap in there
[12:15] <asac> gnomefreak: yeah ... we can drop old builds
[12:15] <asac> definitly
[12:15] <gnomefreak> i havent gotten to that yet
[12:16] <gnomefreak> when i upload these ill clean it to hold 2 versions of everything
[12:16] <asac> only keep two versions if we want to test upgrade path from somewhere old to somewhere old
[12:16] <asac> 2nd old is new of course :)
[12:17] <gnomefreak> true
[12:18] <gnomefreak> the people that wanted iceape in besides me wont use iceape under that name is what i gathered from a convo with someone a while back (you were there)
[12:19] <asac> hmm
[12:19] <gnomefreak> its a bit late to be changing it now. and i kind of like the iceape branding (and ease of patching from debian
[12:19] <gnomefreak> thats something we need to do
[12:19] <gnomefreak> or me needs to do
[12:19] <asac> i think iceape is good ... we can have seamonkey as well at some point
[12:20] <gnomefreak> i would push seamonkey in gutsy+1 if decided
[12:20] <asac> why do you think people won't use iceape?
[12:20] <gnomefreak> leave iceape now and just make it transitional package in gutsy+1
[12:20] <gnomefreak> asac: one person said it
[12:21] <gnomefreak> and i should have gotten some iceape doesnt work (more so than 2)
[12:21] <asac> yeah problem is that trolls always cry most
[12:21] <asac> don't listen to the mob
[12:21] <gnomefreak> i didnt but i did like the idea of having it in repos
[12:21] <asac> yeah might have been broken because of general problems we had in repo
[12:22] <asac> but nothing because its "iceape" instead of "seamonkey"
[12:22] <gnomefreak> asac: its the same other than a name and icons
[12:22] <gnomefreak> lol
[12:22] <asac> if devels commit to maintain it .. it will make it
[12:23] <asac> its iceool :)
[12:23] <gnomefreak> asac: they havent yet what makes you think they will
[12:23] <gnomefreak> did you hear back from them?
[12:23] <asac> i think 0.2/0.3 was too early and maintaining it in a stable branch was too much work
[12:23] <gnomefreak> makes sense
[12:24] <asac> ow that they are at 0.5 .. they might be more tempted to maintain stable
[12:24] <asac> haven't talked yet
[12:24] <gnomefreak> are they there yet?
[12:24] <gnomefreak> at 0.5
[12:24] <asac> but honestly we have still plenty time for gutsy :)
[12:24] <asac> not sure ... but almost there at least
[12:24] <gnomefreak> for things new to being packaged i would like in early to allow for official testing
[12:25] <asac> sure
[12:25] <gnomefreak> are we maintaining nss and nspr?
[12:25] <asac> 3 month before release should be more than enough
[12:25] <asac> yes
[12:25] <gnomefreak> k
[12:25] <asac> nss + nspr + xulrunner + firefox + thunderbird will probably be in main
[12:26] <gnomefreak> whoa
[12:26] <gnomefreak> we are building xulrunner seperately?
[12:26] <asac> firefox-trunk will go either universe or will be removed just before release (so it doesn't ship in stable main)
[12:26] <asac> not yet ... but yes, we will.
[12:26] <gnomefreak> ok
[12:26] <gnomefreak> cool :)
[12:27] <asac> epiphany et al will all build against it


[01:35] <CIA-28> ubiquity: cjwatson * r3174 ubiquity/ (debian/changelog scripts/install.py):
[01:35] <CIA-28> ubiquity: Sync with netcfg 1.44: Define IPv6 ::1 address as "localhost" (thanks,
[01:35] <CIA-28> ubiquity: Robb Topolski; LP: #301430).
[01:45] <CIA-28> base-installer: cjwatson * r361 ubuntu/ (debian/changelog library.sh): Silently skip non-existent devices in /proc/swaps (LP: #290947).
[01:47] <CIA-28> ubiquity: cjwatson * r3175 ubiquity/ (debian/changelog scripts/install.py): Silently skip non-existent devices in /proc/swaps (LP: #290947).
[02:43] <xivulon> steve, in the metalink for the beta there are some entries with preference = 110 (>> bittorrent)
[03:30] <CIA-28> wubi: Agostino Russo * r108 trunk/ (18 files in 8 dirs):
[03:30] <CIA-28> wubi: * Disabled ISO backup because download resume is not fully supported
[03:30] <CIA-28> wubi:  at the moment
[03:30] <CIA-28> wubi: * Isolist.ini now points to the final release URLs
[03:30] <CIA-28> wubi: * Allow the uninstaller to delete the directory containing itself by
[03:30] <CIA-28> wubi:  running the python code from a different process/location (LP:
[03:30] <CIA-28> wubi:  #341605)
[09:36] <davmor2> cjwatson: I like the new colour scheme on the partitioning section of ubiquity
[09:42] <cjwatson> thank evand :)
[09:43] <CIA-28> os-prober: cjwatson * r232 ubuntu/debian/ (changelog rules):
[09:43] <CIA-28> os-prober: Install Mac OS X probe on i386/amd64 too, although it will be marked as
[09:43] <CIA-28> os-prober: unsupported in grub-installer as AFAIK it can only be booted directly
[09:43] <CIA-28> os-prober: from EFI (LP: #353639).
[09:45] <davmor2> I would do but he seems to be away :(
[09:47] <CIA-28> os-prober: cjwatson * r233 ubuntu/ (debian/changelog os-probes/mounted/x86/30utility): Detect Acronis Secure Zone (thanks, Alexey Fisher; LP: #354334).
[09:47] <cjwatson> davmor2: yeah, off this week
[09:51] <CIA-28> os-prober: cjwatson * r234 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 1.29ubuntu2
[10:52] <ogra> cjwatson, ubiquity still inhibits screensaver and dpms, right ?
[10:52] <cjwatson> should do
[10:52] <ogra> (or did that change at some point)
[10:52] <ogra> ok
[10:52] <ogra> because i see screen blanking on the babbage board ... must be a kernel setting then
[10:52] <cjwatson> see poke_screensaver in ubiquity/frontend/gtk_ui.py
[10:53] <cjwatson> it's on a timer, so I suppose the timer could be wrong; ideally we ought to switch to --inhibit
[10:53] <ogra> i belive you, no need to look, i'll check the kernel config
[10:53] <cjwatson> screen blanking might not be through the screensaver though?
[10:53] <ogra> thats what i think
[10:53] <ogra> i think there is some additional backlight control stuff from freescale
[10:55] <ogra> grin ... there is a kernel setting called CONFIG_ARCH_MXC_CANONICAL=y
[10:56] <ogra> aha ... CONFIG_BACKLIGHT_MXC=Y and CONFIG_BACKLIGHT_MXC_MC13892=y ... MC18392 is the framebuffer driver if i'm not wrong
[10:59] <cjwatson> superm1: hmm, I tried out that langpack filtering code with 120 language-support-* names, and the filtering is instantaneous here
[11:02] <cjwatson> superm1: do you think you could try it out with something like this instead of the list comprehension?
[11:02] <cjwatson> new_to_install = []
[11:02] <cjwatson> for lp in to_install:
[11:02] <cjwatson>     syslog.syslog('Testing language pack: %s' % lp)
[11:02] <cjwatson>     if self.get_cache_pkg(cache, lp) is not None:
[11:02] <cjwatson>         syslog.syslog('Language pack found')
[11:02] <cjwatson>         new_to_install.append(lp)
[11:02] <cjwatson> to_install = new_to_install
[11:02] <cjwatson> superm1: then we'd get more detailed timestamps
[11:59] <xivulon> hi davmor2
[11:59] <davmor2> Hello xivulon
[12:00] <xivulon> could you please test r108? http://people.ubuntu.com/~evand/wubi/jaunty/wubi-r108.exe
[12:00] <davmor2> yes was going to
[12:00] <davmor2> xivulon: this is the one that should allow removal correct?
[12:00] <xivulon> correct
[12:00] <davmor2> cool :)
[12:01] <xivulon> Other than 341605 it might also address: #341607 and #347529
[12:03] <xivulon> Could you please also re-test 207137?
[12:04] <xivulon> cjwatson I have a recursive dir deletion code I would like you to review
[12:04] <xivulon> , that has been in for some time, but because of a bug that code path was only rarely hit
[12:05] <xivulon> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Eubuntu-installer/wubi/trunk/annotate/head%3A/src/pylauncher/deletedir.c
[12:05] <xivulon> called by pylauncher.c
[12:05] <xivulon> It seems ok to me but it would be very annoying if something goes wrong there
[12:06] <cjwatson> xivulon: would it be possible to call python code instead?
[12:06] <xivulon> davmor2, would you mind adding comments to the above bugs?
[12:06] <cjwatson> since there's shutil.rmtree
[12:06] <davmor2> xivulon: np's
[12:07] <xivulon> cjwatson, that is the code that actually launches python itself, and python is contained in the dir that has to be deleted, which is something you cannot do in windows
[12:07] <cjwatson> I don't think I'm qualified to review that function, unfortunately; I don't know the Win32 file handling API at all
[12:07] <cjwatson> the top-level logic looks fine but there could be all sorts of lurking gotchas in there that I'd never spot
[12:08] <xivulon> you have far better overall understanding than I do anyway
[12:08] <cjwatson> is there any possibility that it would need to cope with symlinks?
[12:09] <xivulon> not in the wubi dir to be deleted, I have no symlinks there
[12:09] <xivulon> just plain files and dirs
[12:09] <cjwatson> do you need to handle errors from line 59 before going on to attempt to delete the file?
[12:10] <cjwatson> if you intend to ignore errors there, it would be better to just not set result and try to delete the file anyway, I'd have thought
[12:10] <cjwatson> it appears that at the moment if setting attributes fails but deleting the file succeeds, then the function will fail, which seems unnecessary
[12:10] <cjwatson> I don't know if that is possible
[12:11] <cjwatson> oh, it looks like you leak memory from file_path every time around the inner loop
[12:12] <xivulon> In our case all files should have normal attributes anyway, ah good catch
[12:12] <cjwatson> you need to freestr that each time round
[12:13] <cjwatson> and probably then remove the freestr outside the loop (line 74)
[12:13] <cjwatson> also you leak pattern if file_handle == INVALID_HANDLE_VALUE
[12:13] <cjwatson> I think that's everything I can see
[12:13] <xivulon> will patch that tonight, please have also a look at pylauncher.c, that is where actually things could be problematic (in terms of wrong delete_dir argument)
[12:14] <cjwatson> literal strings should have type const char[] not char[]
[12:15] <cjwatson> (assuming that doesn't cause trouble when passing to other functions, in which case you might need casts)
[12:15] <cjwatson> do you need to handle errors from delete_directory in main?
[12:16] <xivulon> I wouldn't think so, there isn't much I can do if that fails, they will just have a dungling temp directory
[12:16] <cjwatson> I'd use sprintf instead of all of those strcats personally, but that's a style point
[12:17] <cjwatson> best hope that targetdir is not very long ...
[12:17] <cjwatson> are you sure you don't want to make cmd bigger, calculated based on MAX_PATH?
[12:17] <cjwatson> and message should clearly be allocated 14 bytes bigger than cmd :-)
[12:17] <xivulon> C:\Documents and Settings\arusso\Local Settings\Temp
[12:18] <cjwatson> personally I'd allocate cmd and message dynamically
[12:18] <cjwatson> reallocing if necessary around the argument loop
[12:18] <cjwatson> does CreateProcess not have any way to avoid having to parse the command out of a string?
[12:19] <xivulon> not that I am aware of, I would love to poass an array of strings
[12:21] <cjwatson> mm, subprocess.py does similar stuff
[12:21] <cjwatson> do you need to take care to quote strings in the command line the way it does?
[12:21] <xivulon> I assume that it would be safer to quote strings
[12:22] <xivulon> I did that in header.c might have to do that again in pylauncher.c
[12:22] <xivulon> In fact I think that is pretty much required
[12:25] <davmor2> xivulon: it got 90's-ified blue block going across the bar rather than the plush green throbber
[12:25] <xivulon> davmor2, when you test r108, please do so _without_ admin privileges, you should be prompted once by UAC
[12:26] <xivulon> can you provide me with a screenshot?
[12:26] <davmor2> xivulon: I'm just running as is from normal user
[12:26] <xivulon> with no admin rights...
[12:27] <xivulon> cjwatson: thx, will incorporate your comments tonight/tomorrow
[12:27] <cjwatson> cool
[12:29] <xivulon> davmor2, I am going over the remaining UI glitches this w/e please file a bug for the bar
[12:31] <davmor2> xivulon: http://www.davmor2.co.uk/vistabar.jpg
[12:32] <xivulon> by the way I bought a macook :)
[12:33] <xivulon> I think we can have a mubi at some stage, since grub2 efi is coming along quite nicely (thanks to bean123)
[12:33] <xivulon> macbook
[12:34] <xivulon> although because of lack of journal support in hfs , I doubt it will be possible to do loopinstallations
[12:35] <xivulon> on the plus side, osx supports online resizing, so it would be possible to do a bootcamp type of app
[12:37] <davmor2> cool
[12:41] <xivulon> davmor2 I know the issue for the vista bar
[12:41] <davmor2> xivulon: it hasn't whinged about the cd not being there.  But after dinner I'll add wubi to a cd and try that for sure
[12:42] <superm1> cjwatson, sure.  will do
[12:42] <cjwatson> thanks
[12:42] <xivulon> the windows resource declaring that themes have to be used is associated to pylauncher, which in turns runs python.exe, but python.exe does not have that resource
[12:44] <CIA-28> ubiquity: cjwatson * r3176 ubiquity/ (5 files in 4 dirs): Use small print rather than italics in "Who are you?" (LP: #287626).
[13:12]  * cjwatson establishes some runes for booting a live CD in kvm with an arbitrary screen resolution (or at least something that the relevant X driver supports)
[13:13] <cjwatson> boot without splash and with break=casper-bottom, then: sed -i '/Modes.*"/s/".*/"800x600"/' /root/usr/bin/dexconf
[13:13] <cjwatson> and exit 0 to continue booting
[13:57] <CIA-28> oem-config: cjwatson * r646 trunk/ (debian/changelog lib/timezone_map.py):
[13:57] <CIA-28> oem-config: * GTK frontend:
[13:57] <CIA-28> oem-config:  - Use the full size of the underlying images for the timezone map if the
[13:57] <CIA-28> oem-config:  screen is big enough.
[13:59] <CIA-28> oem-config: cjwatson * r647 trunk/ (debian/changelog gui/glade/step_timezone.glade): Fix spacing on timezone page (LP: #336745).
[14:19] <davmor2> xivulon: ah good your still around.  I'm just going for a removal now
[14:24] <davmor2> xivulon: windows app removal gave a error and removed ubuntu from the app list but all the folders are still in place so not quite sure what happened there
[14:27] <superm1> cjwatson, unfortunately those partman-base changes did hurt us as I'm finally testing the daily today with new ubiquity
[14:28] <superm1> the partman screen comes up with the warning
[14:32] <cjwatson> superm1: nngh. --debug output please?
[14:32] <superm1> simultaneously (on a diff box w/ older ubiquity) I tested that patch again that you proposed a few days ago before adding the debug info from earlier this morning.  it worked this time, so I am going to run it once more to ensure the previous data point is a read herring caused by multiple ubiquity runs w/o a reboot
[14:33] <cjwatson> that'd be a relief, that's an RC bug :)
[14:33] <superm1> s/read/red/ that is
[14:34] <superm1> sure give me a bit, i'm letting that install finish off anyhow to see if grub2 stuff works out with it
[14:55] <superm1> cjwatson, so the second run with that patch was successful too, so I'd say pull that in and ignore my old data point w/ the multiple ubiquity runs
[15:07] <cjwatson> superm1: cool, that's good news, thanks
[15:19] <CIA-28> ubiquity: cjwatson * r3177 ubiquity/ (debian/changelog scripts/install.py):
[15:19] <CIA-28> ubiquity: Revert r2984 from ubiquity 1.11.5, and instead filter out language packs
[15:19] <CIA-28> ubiquity: that don't exist in the live filesystem's apt cache; this allows us to
[15:19] <CIA-28> ubiquity: accurately produce incomplete language support notifications again.
[15:19] <CIA-28> ubiquity: Thanks to Mario Limonciello for testing (LP: #337748).
[15:27] <CIA-28> ubiquity: cjwatson * r3178 ubiquity/ (debian/changelog ubiquity/frontend/mythbuntu_ui.py):
[15:27] <CIA-28> ubiquity: * Mythbuntu frontend:
[15:27] <CIA-28> ubiquity:  - Don't crash if --no-migration-assistant was used (LP: #354368).
[15:44] <superm1> cjwatson, bug 354534 is the results of grub2 testing, i'll do one more to file the partman-base change separately however
[15:46] <cjwatson> thanks
[15:46] <superm1> thanks for the mythbuntu fix above too
[15:48] <cjwatson> np
[16:09] <cjwatson> /cdrom/scripts/chroot.sh: line 32: /target/var/log/installer/chroot.sh.log: No such file or directory
[16:09] <cjwatson> superm1: I assume that's from your preseeding? if so heads-up ...
[16:12] <superm1> cjwatson, it's because it's not really ran in a factory server, but a faked env I believe
[16:12] <cjwatson> ah
[16:12] <cjwatson> this is odd, looks like all the progress templates are missing ...
[16:16] <cjwatson> 14:27 <superm1> cjwatson, unfortunately those partman-base changes did hurt us as I'm finally testing the daily today with new ubiquity
[16:16] <cjwatson> 14:28 <superm1> the partman screen comes up with the warning
[16:16] <cjwatson> superm1: but it's a warning at the top of the screen rather than a dialog, right?
[16:16] <superm1> cjwatson, yes
[16:16] <cjwatson> superm1: I'm not clear on why that's bad - you genuinely can't create, resize, or delete partitions on that device, surely
[16:16] <cjwatson> and that seems like something it's appropriate to warn about
[16:16] <superm1> I still need to keep ubiquity/partman-skip-unmount boolean true otherwise there is a popup warning dialog
[16:17] <superm1> Oh I was certainly able to make a partition on the device
[16:17] <superm1> I picked the free space and made an ext3 partition to install to
[16:17] <cjwatson> but the kernel will not be able to reread the partition table unless /cdrom is unmounted
[16:17] <cjwatson> from /dev/sda2
[16:18] <superm1> which is what I've always thought too, but it's worked out fine
[16:18] <superm1> I never really could identify why it worked
[16:18] <cjwatson> maybe it works provided that it's at the end
[16:18] <cjwatson> I really don't want to imply that it's supported, though
[16:18] <cjwatson> because I'll have to deal with the bugs when it breaks
[16:18] <robbiew> cjwatson: we're up
[16:18] <superm1> cjwatson, yeah, i'm fine with a preseed like before to just support this case
[16:18] <superm1> but i think the warning is good for the general case
[16:20] <cjwatson> superm1: bet it wouldn't work if you attempted to resize /dev/sda2, for example
[16:21] <superm1> cjwatson, yeah I think resizing a live filesystem itself is asking for trouble, but just adding new partitions appears to be fine
[16:21] <superm1> especially since /dev/sda2 was vfat
[16:21] <cjwatson> can I reject all bugs from your users about breakage? ;-)
[16:22] <superm1> haha, well I doubt they would get to that point of filing bugs if they got a system broken from this
[16:22] <cjwatson> although, if it's just in the factory process, then it doesn't seem important to tweak the UI
[16:22] <cjwatson> I can do something about the continuing need for ubiquity/partman-skip-unmount
[16:23] <superm1> yeah it's just factory process.  the recovery media imitates factory process as best as possible, but just asks a yes/no do you want to recover question
[16:23] <cjwatson> and then noninteractive?
[16:23] <superm1> well we're switching to automatic-ubiquity for 9.04 since vesa appears to finally be a feasible fallback
[16:24] <superm1> if it'd be useful,  I can post an ISO of recovery media generated from today's daily CD and you can take a look at how things work
[16:25] <cjwatson> nah, it's OK, ISO downloads pretty slow for me as previously advertised :)
[16:38] <superm1> ok, i've added bug 354573 to keep track of the partman-base breakage. let me know if you need anything else for it
[16:38] <cjwatson> superm1: ah, looking into the kernel in a bit more detail, it looks as if you can modify partitions precisely if they're after any mounted ones on the disk
[16:39] <cjwatson> superm1: "can no longer perform factory installs" is not the same as "there's a warning on-screen, but it works anyway"
[16:39] <cjwatson> which is it? :)
[16:39] <superm1> haha, well i'll put automated back in there :)
[16:40] <cjwatson> but it would work with ubiquity/partman-skip-unmount, wouldn't it?
[16:41] <cjwatson> superm1: BTW, in general I need the syslog too, but I'm assuming that it's the same log as in 354534
[16:41] <superm1> well I did this w/o grub2, so it's a tad different.  i'll add it
[16:41] <superm1> so I had ubiquity/partman-skip-unmount in the seed (attached the seed too)
[16:42] <superm1> warning still comes up with it there.
[16:42] <superm1> if that's taken out, then there is a ubiquity dialog box that pops up talking about /cdrom being mounted
[16:42] <cjwatson> the installation_medium_mounted warning should have no effect on automation, so we can take that out of the equation
[16:43] <cjwatson> I'd like to identify the dialog though
[16:59] <superm1> installation_medium_mounted is what's showing up on the partitioner page. w/o ubiquity/partman-skip-unmount, ubiquity/partman-failed-unmount is also shown (and the install can't proceed)
[17:01] <superm1> perhaps, the reason why the automation is bogging out for the partitioner page - the recovery partition does not take up "most of the disk", so that check for it doing so wouldn't pass
[17:28] <cjwatson> superm1: that check only governs the warning, which shouldn't affect automation
[17:28] <superm1> oh
[17:29] <cjwatson> well, it also governs whether the device shows up in partman at all, but in that respect the current behaviour is in your favour
[21:40] <superm1> cjwatson, oh, i was just reading through changelogs a little, and then saw that partman-auto 84ubuntu2's stood out. "Exclude devices containing the installation medium from automatic partitioning (LP: #347916)".  That sounds like the situation considering we've got a recipe that uses automatic
[21:45] <superm1> cjwatson, yup, I just tried reverting the diff from 84ubuntu1 to 84ubuntu2 and --automatic works again
[22:04] <kirkland> cjwatson: hey, for intrepid, in the alternate installer, we have some debconf text that tells the user to record their randomly generated passphrase if they setup an encrypted private
[22:05] <kirkland> cjwatson: we seem to have lost that page in the alt/server installer for jaunty
[22:05] <kirkland> cjwatson: could we get that page back?
[22:18] <cjwatson> superm1: sigh, I wish your requirements weren't so different from everyone else's :-/
[22:18] <cjwatson> superm1: I think we'll just have to reintroduce partman/filter_mounted
[22:18] <cjwatson> kirkland: um, you removed that
[22:18] <kirkland> cjwatson: okay, i'll go take a look
[22:19] <cjwatson> kirkland: was it not obsolete with encrypted-home?
[22:19] <kirkland> cjwatson: the first half is obsolete
[22:19] <kirkland> cjwatson: "do you want to pick a password, or generate one"
[22:19] <kirkland> cjwatson: we always generate one
[22:19] <kirkland> cjwatson: the next screen though is needed
[22:20] <kirkland> cjwatson: "your generated password is BLAH, write this down!"
[22:20] <cjwatson> put a branch up and I'll review it
[22:20] <cjwatson> aim for minimal string changes (ideally a strict subset of what was there before, if possible), please
[22:20] <kirkland> cjwatson: k, will do
[22:20] <kirkland> cjwatson: i think it will be identical
[22:20] <kirkland> cjwatson: what's the specific package?  usersetup?
[22:21] <cjwatson> user-setup
[22:21] <kirkland> cjwatson: thanks.
[22:21] <cjwatson> lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/user-setup/ubuntu
[23:28] <CIA-28> partman-base: cjwatson * r150 ubuntu/ (debian/changelog init.d/parted):
[23:28] <CIA-28> partman-base: Support partman/filter_mounted preseeding again, for some special cases
[23:28] <CIA-28> partman-base: that know they can get away with modifying partitions after the one
[23:28] <CIA-28> partman-base: containing the installation medium (LP: #354573).
[23:31] <cjwatson> superm1: I'm reverting your description back to the original; partman-auto uses information that partman-base writes out, and so simply restoring partman/filter_mounted preseeding is both more generally applicable and more elegant
[23:31] <cjwatson> well, more or less the original
[23:34] <CIA-28> partman-base: cjwatson * r151 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 129ubuntu6
[23:39] <CIA-28> ubiquity: cjwatson * r3179 ubiquity/ (d-i/manifest debian/changelog): Automatic update of included source packages: partman-base 129ubuntu6.
[23:45] <CIA-28> ubiquity: cjwatson * r3180 ubiquity/debian/changelog: releasing version 1.12.3