[20:20] <rhagu> Hi, I was pointed here from #ubuntu: I enabled bluetooth, I added btusb to /etc/modules, but the bluetooth service just won't start after reboot. I looked into journalctl and couldnt find anything. And I can run sudo systemctl start bluetooth and it works . . . what am I missing
[20:23] <Mekaneck> jawn-smith or waveform ^
[20:50] <rhagu> I found it! hciuart service was missing and apt could not find it. it is included in the pi-bluetooth package! :-)
[21:41] <jawn-smith> rhagu sorry for the delayed response but glad you got it working! Is it fully up and running now?


[21:39] <mup> PR operator#678 opened: [Draft] Add networking data to the harness <Created by pengale> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/678>


[08:40] <tfheen> BenC: linux-source ftbfs on all arches.
[12:48] <infinity> BenC: ping... poke me when you're around.
[02:12] <BenC> infinity: blah
[02:13] <infinity> BenC: Waking up?
[02:13] <BenC> wow
[02:14] <infinity> BenC: A few linux-libc-dev related ones, which I'm trying to sort whose fault they are.
[02:14] <pitti> hi
[02:14] <infinity> BenC: pitti's got one for you, and then I'll take my turn. :)
[02:15] <BenC> well all of l-s-2.6.17 failed too, so I'm checking that as well :)
[02:15] <infinity> Yeah, but if another upload's required, we may as well wait and see if the headers need fixing first. :)
[02:20] <infinity> BenC: Ping me when you're done pondering pitti's bug.
[02:21] <BenC> ok, I'm working on that one now
[02:21] <pitti> BenC: you agree that unaligned.h is legitimate for userspace?
[02:22] <BenC> pitti: Not sure yet
[02:23] <BenC> pitti: I'm going to have to say no
[02:24] <fabbione> hey Ben
[02:24] <fabbione> BenC: i assigned a few FTBFS to you since they involve mixture of kernel and userland headers (during a mass filing)
[02:24] <fabbione> BenC: if it's a big time issue for you to work on them, i am sure pitti will love to help you :)
[02:24] <pitti> BenC: ok; any idea how programs can do an unaligned read/write in a platform independent manner?
[02:25] <BenC> pitti: main reason is that sparc64 uses asm-generic/unaligned.h and that can't be in userspace
[02:25] <BenC> pitti: Are there programs other than reiserfsprogs that try to do this?
[02:25] <pitti> BenC: not to my knowledge, but I can't really say
[02:25] <pitti> BenC: we have to check the other FTBFSes
[02:26] <BenC> pitti: Isn't there some gcc or glibc defined way of doing this already?
[02:27] <BenC> I mean, if it's such a common thing, I would think that there is a more "official" method
[02:27] <pitti> BenC: (making a clueless face)
[02:28] <infinity> Amazingly, I can picture that face.
[02:30] <BenC> pitti: From what I can tell, accessing unaligned data is not a problem, and get_unaligned/put_unaligned is only important for some architectures to improve performance a bit
[02:31] <BenC> and from what I can tell, that's only the case for sparc64 for us
[02:31] <BenC> the other arch's, the macros are pretty much (foo) and (foo = bar)
[02:31] <pitti> BenC: it's definitively not a problem on x86/amd64, but I wasn't sure whether some arches would spill SIGBUSes for that
[02:32] <pitti> BenC: and on sparc64? will it work, just slowly? or sigbus?
[02:36] <infinity> I could just remove reiserfsprogs from the archive and solve the problem that way.
[02:36] <infinity> :P
[02:39] <BenC> pitti: It should not...come to think of it, using asm-* in userspace is pointless for a few reasons, but mainly because it says nothing about the actual cpu you are running on
[02:40] <BenC> ppc -> ppc64, sparc ->sparc64, i386 -> x86_64
[02:40] <pitti> ok
[02:40] <pitti> BenC: ok, I'll fix that the naive way then; thank you!
[02:40] <pitti> (bug updated and rejected for l-s-2.6.17
[02:40] <pitti> )
[02:40] <BenC> pitti: I would just copy the macros from i386 unaligned.h and plug those in instead of the asm/unaligned.h include
[02:41] <pitti> yeah, I did something similar
[02:41] <pitti> the code already had such a fallback for powerpc
[02:41] <pitti> I just made that non-ppc-specific
[02:41] <infinity> BenC: My turn? :)
[02:41] <BenC> shoot :)
[02:42] <infinity> http://librarian.launchpad.net/4822044/buildlog_ubuntu-edgy-i386.directfb_0.9.24-4ubuntu2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[02:42] <infinity> Now, I'm not entirely sure how this could possibly build WITHOUT agpgart.h, so I'm curious if you need to mangle agpgart.h to be userspace-friendly, or if I should be pulling all the symbols from agpgart.h into directfb (ugh)
[02:48] <BenC> infinity: icky...that just looks like newer agp API
[02:49] <infinity> BenC: Any urge to take this one off my hands and make it build on amd64/i386?  I got it building on all other arches (yes, the package had at least 4 different FTBFS bugs)
[02:49] <BenC> infinity: I can give it a go
[02:49] <infinity> BenC: Once I start diving into kernel/userspace separation, I get a bit hazy as to whose bug is whose (kernel, headers, app)
[02:50] <BenC> infinity: This is basically a "directfb is too old" bug
[02:51] <infinity> That doesn't shock.  The bitrot can't be too bad, though. :/
[06:17] <nixternal> [17180132.352000]  APIC error on CPU0: 01(01)
[06:18] <nixternal> ever since tuesday, i switched to the -generic kernel, and now i get those
[06:18] <nixternal> i had this with the k7 kernel previously, and when i went back to the 386 kernel, the problem went away
[06:28] <BenC> nixternal: Try booting with noapic
[06:29] <nixternal> it won't
[06:29] <BenC> nixternal: Then I suggest for now sticking with the -386 kernel
[06:29] <nixternal> hehe, i am ;)
[06:29] <BenC> nixternal: File a bug and attach dmesg (or digital photo) of the problem boot without "quiet splash"
[06:30] <nixternal> just wanted to know if anyone knew of this..i didn't even see a bug for it..so i am filing one...also, you research the error on google, they say defective hardware, which i doubt that is the issue
[06:30] <BenC> a little info on your hardware too
[06:30] <nixternal> no problem
[06:30] <BenC> nixternal: I don't doubt that it could be buggy or defective hardware, but it could be something that can be worked around
[06:31] <nixternal> it is top knotch stuff here ;)
[06:31] <nixternal> however, im pointing towards memory if it is an issue though
[06:31] <nixternal> i think i noticed it with a 1gb stick installation
[06:32] <nixternal> first
[06:40] <BenC> nixternal: New doesn't mean "not broken" :)
[06:41] <BenC> nixternal: You may want to check on a BIOS update as well
[06:44] <nixternal> hehe, believe me i know. this is a kt333 mobo, i think they stopped with bios hacks years back...need to find out if there are any custom ones out there though
[06:53] <nixternal> BenC: the noapic option actually didn't lock the machine up like it had before. and it seems to have fixed something else i had an issue with on startx kicking in kdm in automatically, don't know if htey are tied in, but thats my story and im sticking to it
[06:54] <nixternal> however,t he error is still there ;(
[08:17] <tfheen> zul: hmm, you said that xen git was up-to-date now?
[08:17] <tfheen> zul: is that the git://dev.laptop.org/projects/ubuntu-xen repo or some other?
[08:29] <zul> ubuntu-xen-2.6.17
[08:30] <tfheen> cloning now.
[08:31] <tfheen> any idea when we'll have working xrm?
[08:31] <zul> when the headers are fixed again
[08:31] <tfheen> any idea when that happens? :-P
[08:31] <zul> this weekend probably :)
[08:31] <tfheen> ok


[12:04] <trulux> pitti: heya fellow
[12:05] <pitti> trulux: you broke my box. twice. :-/
[12:05] <trulux> pitti: lots of things to talk about :)
[12:05] <trulux> pitti: what?
[12:05] <pitti> trulux: more detailled, PAM
[12:05] <trulux> pitti: PAM from pearls repo???
[12:05] <pitti> trulux: if I install your PAM packages, I get "sudo: pam_authenticate: Module is unknown" if I try to sudo
[12:05] <trulux> that's ajmitch's package
[12:05] <pitti> trulux: yes, from your repo
[12:05] <pitti> trulux: if I downgrade to breezy's PAM again, everything works
[12:06] <trulux> pitti: my old pam packages are 0.78 and located at ./ubuntu.wip/
[12:07] <pitti> trulux: ok, then I blame ajmitch
[12:07] <trulux> ajmitch's are in the apt-get'able repo, so, I have no competency over them
[12:07] <trulux> pitti: just don't blame, ask him for it
[12:07] <pitti> of course :-)
[12:07] <trulux> blaming is bad, I've learnt that lately.. Just give a **** to it if something goes wrong ;)
[12:08] <trulux> pitti: now I need a bit of help from you, on the 2.6.12 sources thing
[12:08] <trulux> pitti: it's still building and I left it doing so before I went to the cinema
[12:08] <trulux> that was around 21:00
[12:09] <trulux> looks like a loop
[12:09] <trulux> or cross compilation
[12:09] <trulux> either it's the first or the latter, i DON'T CARE, IT JUST SUCKS
[12:09] <trulux> -ECAPS
[12:09] <pitti> trulux: why you need to compile the kernel?
[12:10] <trulux> 'cos I'm on hoary and the headers are not a real package but an hybrid of the sources, or it just looks like that
[12:10] <pitti> trulux: you should consider that the source package builds many different flavors, that's what might appear as a loop
[12:10] <pitti> trulux: no, the linux-headers package is a real deb
[12:10] <trulux> could you send me a sanitized tarball of the direct kernel-headers directory in your /usr/src?
[12:10] <pitti> trulux: just install it and you get the headers and Makefiles in /usr/src/linux-headers-2.6.12-1
[12:11] <trulux> right, but it builds out of such thing
[12:11] <trulux> OK
[12:11] <trulux> will grab the flippin package
[12:11] <trulux> today I had migrains again
[12:11] <trulux> so, don't expect me to be less hard headed today ;)
[12:11] <trulux> on the other hand, how's going the gcc-3.4 packages with SSP enabled?
[12:12] <trulux> are they already available?
[12:13] <trulux> pitti: btw, how was your weekend?
[12:14] <pitti> trulux: was pretty fine, thanks. Enjoyed the sun, beach, and some BBQ :-)
[12:14] <pitti> trulux: I don't work on SSP pacakges
[12:14] <trulux> pitti: better than mine then
[12:14] <trulux> pitti: well, it was decided in the meeting to enable it in the now deprecated gcc-3.4 ones
[12:15] <pitti> yes, but I don't have time for that
[12:15] <trulux> pitti: it's just doing -#
[12:15] <trulux> de-comment the lines
[12:15] <trulux> buildd it
[12:15] <trulux> ;)
[12:16] <Nafallo> omg! I had 8 dhclient3s running.
[12:23] <Nafallo> pitti: when you derootified dhcp3, did you think of /var/run/dhclient.$if.pid?
[12:24] <pitti> Nafallo: hm, I think so???
[12:25] <Nafallo> pitti: I get permission denied on creating those files.
[12:25] <pitti> hm, very odd, it starts as root...
[12:25] <pitti> Nafallo: please file a bug, I'm too tired for today
[12:26] <Nafallo> pitti: I think it's related to #10803
[12:37] <pitti> Nafallo: right, thanks for reassigning
[12:38] <Nafallo> pitti: np :-).
[12:42] <JStrike> Urgh. Anybody know what channel sabdfl is on? I want to ask him if I may /msg a question
[12:43] <pitti> JStrike: how about /msg him _this_ question? :-)
[12:44] <Kamion> are you sure Mark's the right target for your question?
[12:44] <JStrike> Then I am still /msg'ing him uninvitedly
[12:44] <JStrike> Kamion : yep
[12:44] <JStrike> Some advice really
[12:44] <Kamion> you might also find mail a better bet
[12:45] <mdke> if you want to find out what channel someone is on, you can do a /whois on them
[12:45] <JStrike> I didn't want to send him an email. He probably gets a ton as is, but it seems I might have to
[12:45] <JStrike> mdke : Thanks
[12:45] <trulux> pitti: sorry of the delay, needed to get the meds for migrains, could you gimme the url of the headers .deb please?
[12:46] <JStrike> mdke : Doesn't work
[12:46] <mdke> JStrike, eh?
[12:46] <mdke> check your Freenode window
[12:46] <pitti> trulux: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/l/linux-source-2.6.12/linux-headers-2.6.12-1_<IP_ADDRESS>-1.1_i386.deb
[12:47] <trulux> pitti: OK, many thanks, you rock
[12:47] <trulux> anyone with migrains here?
[12:47] <Kamion> JStrike: he may not *be* in any channels right now. He's not in the private Canonical channel where he usually sits when he's actually paying attention to IRC.
[12:47] <pitti> np ;)
[12:47] <JStrike> mdke : That might be the problem. Using gaim. It did pop up a list with info though, but didn't say what channel he is on
[12:47] <mdke> JStrike, he's not on any
[12:47] <mdke> trulux, computer screens are bad for migrains ;)
[12:48] <JStrike> mdke : Weird. /msg NickServe info said he was
[12:48] <Kamion> JStrike: some channels are secret and don't show up on /whois.
[12:48] <trulux> mdke: mine is a TFT, I'm safe of the sync-of-the-death
[12:49] <JStrike> Kamion : Oh. Well if he doesn't want to be disturbed, I can wait
[12:49] <trulux> mdke: though I have good conditions to stand up even with the pain of 40C of fever (well, I can imagine Madonna's tits in my screen, indeed)
[12:49] <mdke> JStrike, that will tell you whether a person is online or not, it won't tell you what channels a person is in
[12:50] <mdke> trulux, you have a 40 fever?
[12:50] <Kamion> JStrike: busy people often work better with e-mail; they can deal with it in batch mode when they have time, rather than syncing up to somebody else's schedule
[12:51] <trulux> mdke: not yet
[12:51] <mdke> trulux, take it easy :)
[12:51] <trulux> mdke: yeah, chill out around, my good arm chair in fron of the devel box and the wireless keyboard and mouse. it's good :)
[12:56] <JStrike> mdke : Thanks. Will do
[12:57] <mdke> ok...
[12:58] <trulux> hey julien
[12:58] <julien> hello
[12:58] <trulux> pitti: julien is a fellow with a very good background, skillful and willing to work together with me and you. I prefer to let him introduce himself
[12:58] <trulux> pitti: he's the man we need, someone who can do real work and not bitch around
[12:58] <pitti> Hi julien, nice to get to know you
[12:59] <julien> thanks trulux
[12:59] <julien> Hi pitti, same here
[12:59] <trulux> julien: my pleasure, It was great when I heard you were interested, and even more now that we may meet personally in France this summer
[12:59] <julien> I have dicovered Ubuntu only a few weeks ago and I like the spirit
[01:01] <trulux> pitti: julien is maybe one of the bests when talking on how NX and W^X principles work
[01:01] <trulux> pitti: anyways, you'll know in the forthxoming weeks for sure
[01:01] <pitti> yeah, thanks for the intro
[01:02] <pitti> julien: would be great to see you rocking here :-)
[01:02] <pitti> anyway, guys, I need some sleep
[01:02] <pitti> good night, see you tomorrow morning
[01:02] <pitti> ... actually _today_ morning :-)
[01:37] <lifeless> is fl-cow synced from sid to breezy at this point ?
[01:38] <doko_> lifeless: the ubuntu-changes
[01:38] <doko_> lifeless: see ubuntu-changes
[01:38] <lifeless> doko_: ?
[01:38] <lifeless> is that a list? a webpage? a person ?
[01:39] <doko_> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/breezy-changes/
[01:39] <doko_> mailing list
[01:39] <doko_> synced yesterday
[01:39] <lifeless> cool
[01:39] <lifeless> thanks
[01:39] <doko_> one new subscriber ...
[01:40] <lifeless> ?
[01:40] <doko_> no more sync questions ;-)
[01:46] <lifeless>
[01:47] <Amaranth> did foo sync? :)
[01:47] <Amaranth> lifeless: what was that?
[01:47] <lifeless> my wireless shitting itself
[01:47] <lifeless> :[
[01:47] <Amaranth> nice
[01:47] <Amaranth> 0x7F
[01:48] <lifeless> doko_: probably wont subscribe .. I wouldn't have any need to read it for 99 days out of a hundred
[01:48] <lifeless> doko_: so the question is .. will I remember it next time ;)
[01:48] <Amaranth> lifeless: It'll also flood you out.
[01:49] <Amaranth> lifeless: I subscribed right when the mom got turned back on.
[01:49] <Amaranth> If I didn't delete mail every 5 minutes my mailbox would explode.
[01:49] <ajmitch> Amaranth: that's when gmail is useful
[01:49] <Amaranth> i left it overnight and came back to like 600 emails
[01:49] <Amaranth> ajmitch: this was gmail
[01:49] <ajmitch> heh :)
[01:50] <Amaranth> i hadn't setup a label and filter yet
[01:50] <Amaranth> after that i didn't bother
[01:51] <lifeless> if only there was a web page you could put a package name in and get the status of it in each distro
[01:51] <zul> there is...i forgot what it is called right now
[01:51] <lifeless> 'package'   'ubuntu/breezy'   'ubuntu/hoary'   'debian/sid'  'debian/sarge'  'redhat'
[01:51] <zul> bleah redhat
[01:52] <Amaranth> lifeless: Do you know how many distros there are?
[01:52] <lifeless> fl-cow    1.4-2   N/A   1.4-3   N/A  1.4-2
[01:52] <lifeless> Amaranth: yes
[01:52] <lifeless> Amaranth: by all I mean 'the ones soyuz is tracking'
[01:52] <Amaranth> how can sid have a newer version?
[01:52] <ajmitch> Amaranth: unmerged changes for ubuntu
[01:52] <Amaranth> ah
[01:52] <lifeless> Amaranth: that would indicate something pending sync, or failing to sync
[03:40] <dilinger> mako: *poke*
[03:43] <jsgotangco> mornin'
[04:01] <ajmitch> hi jsgotangco
[04:10] <jsgotangco> hey ajmitch how was your weekend
[04:12] <ajmitch> fairly quiet, how about you?
[04:14] <jsgotangco> not bad although the rainy season is about to start here
[05:37] <daniels> elmo: if I upload xorg 6.8.2-10hoary1 to hoary-updates (hypothetically), two questions: one, do I need the .orig as well; two, I set the upload target to hoary-updates, right?
[06:18] <fabbione> morning
[08:05] <pitti> Morning
[08:11] <mdz> pitti: morning
[08:11] <pitti> Hi mdz
[08:11] <[Chameleon] > what is the proper etiquite for editing items in the bounties list? I'd like to add a suggestion/comment to on eof the listed items.
[08:11] <[Chameleon] > s/on eof/one of
[08:13] <mdz> [Chameleon] : email JaneW
[08:14] <[Chameleon] > mdz: I shall. Thank you.
[08:14] <sabdfl> mdz: ping
[08:14] <pitti> Hi sabdfl
[08:14] <sabdfl> hey guys
[08:14] <mdz> sabdfl: pong
[08:15] <sabdfl> getting ready to MAKE THE PITCH at Guadec
[08:15] <sabdfl> mdz: quick thought re LaunchpadIntegration before it slips from my addled brain
[08:15] <sabdfl> again
[08:15] <fabbione> sabdfl morning
[08:15] <Amaranth> went to bed really early so i could wake up at 1am my time to watch it
[08:15] <fabbione> hey pitti
[08:15] <fabbione> hey mdz
[08:15] <sabdfl> would it be possible for the URL to include locale information?
[08:15] <mdz> fabbione: morning
[08:15] <sabdfl> hey fabbione!
[08:15] <mdz> sabdfl: yeah, should be easy enough
[08:15] <fabbione> sabdfl: good luck with your talk!
[08:15] <sabdfl> what's cooking in clusterland?
[08:16] <sabdfl> mdz: rock
[08:16] <fabbione> sabdfl: biarch support for ppc64, package splitting, evaluation of impact in main (since we will need part of it in main)
[08:16] <sabdfl> can i take that off my list of things to convey then? could you add it to sebs list or the spec?
[08:16] <sabdfl> fabbione: awesome
[08:16] <sabdfl> impact as in asteroid-rating?
[08:17] <fabbione> sabdfl: if i will manage we will get the first init scripts too
[08:17] <fabbione> sabdfl: no, the worst case is one or two packages to rebuild for a soname change
[08:17] <sabdfl> ok, cool
[08:17] <fabbione> sabdfl: but i still want to be 200% sure that it will work as it should :)
[08:17] <fabbione> i am an italian paranoid.. and you know that :)
[08:18] <sabdfl> parandroid
[08:18] <fabbione> ahha
[08:18] <mdz> sabdfl: yeah, I'll transfer it
[08:19] <ajmitch> hello sabdfl, mdz & others :)
[08:19] <sabdfl> mdz: thanksvery much
[08:19] <mdz> sabdfl: which pitch is this one?
[08:19] <sabdfl> that means we can take the guys straight to a page to translate their app into their language
[08:19] <jsgotangco> hello
[08:19] <sabdfl> AND we can display the instructions on that page in their language too :-)
[08:20] <sabdfl> mdz: Guadec keynote
[08:21] <sabdfl> will talk about collaboration as a primary objective of the desktop, as well as collaboration on the development side
[08:21] <sabdfl> along the way singing the praises of baz, rosetta and malone
[08:21] <mdz> sabdfl: in three-part harmony?
[08:21] <mdz> four with ubuntu
[08:21] <sabdfl> i've hacked up a nice little demo of translation sharing in real time between ubuntu and upstream on a local rosetta branch
[08:23] <sabdfl> so i'm expecting the inevitable demo effect: 500 Application Error
[08:23] <sabdfl> time to run
[08:23] <mdz> break a leg
[08:23] <jsgotangco> break a leg indeed
[08:24] <ajmitch> hopefully the stream will be watchable from here
[08:24] <mdz> is anyone here in the audience at guadec?
[08:25] <ajmitch> I think ogra & seb were yesterday, if they're around
[08:26] <jsgotangco> thats awesome
[08:27] <pitti> Hey ajmitch
[08:27] <ajmitch> hi pitti
[08:27] <ajmitch> how are you?
[08:27] <pitti> ajmitch: I downloaded the selinux-enabled packages from trulux' archive, but the PAM there broke my box
[08:27] <ajmitch> pitti: that's no surprise :)
[08:27] <pitti> ajmitch: fine and I enjoyed the summer during the weekend, thanks :-) and you?
[08:28] <pitti> ajmitch: erm, if these packages are supposed to wander into main, they *must not* break my or anyone elses's box :-)
[08:28] <ajmitch> there should be a note that they're not really ready - 0.78 has changed syntax, so anything putting files in /etc/pam.d using @include needs changed iff we're to use it
[08:28] <pitti> ajmitch: specifically, I can't sudo any more: "sudo: pam_authenticate: Module is unknown"
[08:28] <pitti> ajmitch: uh, that sounds a bit scary
[08:28] <ajmitch> interesting, I wonder what happened to that module :)
[08:29] <ajmitch> pitti: @include was a debian hack, I think, upstream had different ideas
[08:29] <pitti> ajmitch: is there a safe upgrade path that can be implemented quickly?
[08:29] <pitti> ajmitch: if not, I'd prefer applying the selinux extensions to the 0.76 version in breezy, if that's possible
[08:29] <ajmitch> yes, backporting the patch to 0.76
[08:29] <ajmitch> manoj is working on 0.79 for debian
[08:29] <ajmitch> which may or may not be ready in time
[08:30] <pitti> ajmitch: if it's questionable, then I'd feel better with the proven 0.76 version. would porting the selinux stuff be much effor?
[08:30] <pitti> effort, even
[08:30] <ajmitch> no, I don't think so
[08:30] <ajmitch> it consists of changes to one module, and a new pam module
[08:32] <ajmitch> hi JaneW
[08:32] <JaneW> morning ajmitch
[08:32] <bob2> aloha, JaneW
[08:33] <JaneW> hi bob2 *wave*
[08:33] <jsgotangco> hello
[08:33] <pitti> Morning JaneW
[08:33] <ajmitch> pitti: not sure where sudo got that pam_authenticate from
[08:33] <ajmitch> since it doesn't exist in 0.76 either - I think it may have been a config change by me
[08:34] <pitti> ajmitch: me neither, but after that my box was basically screwed and it wasn't obvious how to fix that
[08:34] <ajmitch> sorry about that :)
[08:34] <pitti> ajmitch: I didn't think about the selinux packages at first, so I thought it was a dist-upgrade breakage
[08:34] <pitti> ajmitch: no worries, better I find out that 10.000 users :-)
[08:36] <\sh> morning
[08:36] <ajmitch> morning \sh
[08:36] <ajmitch> pitti: I think >100 angry developers would have found out before then :)
[08:38] <ajmitch> ok
[08:51] <ajmitch> pitti: good, looks like selinux support is going into pam upstream (judging by changelog in cvs)
[08:51] <Treenaks> ooh nice
[08:51] <ajmitch> 0.76 is from 2002
[08:57] <pitti> ajmitch: it will be in 0.79?
[08:58] <ajmitch> pitti: 0.79 was released in march, it will be in 0.80
[09:00] <ajmitch> it looks like pam_selinux was committed to cvs just 2 weeks ago
[09:39] <trulux> ajmitch: yup, great
[09:39] <trulux> pitti: will try to port it, I think I did in the past though I missed the patch in my archives
[09:43] <pitti> Morning trulux
[09:43] <pitti> trulux: any success with vsecurity? or any problem you need help with?
[09:43] <trulux> pitti: heyas fellow
[09:44] <trulux> pitti: partially, I was horrified with the huge amount of API related errors, I can't imagine why that's so hard broken. with vanilla rc5 it just works out of the box
[09:45] <trulux> pitti: after fixing the spinlock's pointer issues, I get the vsecurity_ops (the sec_ops struct of LSM) to cause another huge amount of issues
[09:45] <trulux> pitti: I dunno really what's in Ubuntu sources that breaks it that hard
[09:47] <fabbione> ????
[09:48] <fabbione> trulux, pitti: mind to explain?
[09:51] <pitti> fabbione: trulux said that the ABI of the 2.6.12rc5 pristine is significantly different from our's (e. g. spinlock functions)
[09:52] <pitti> Hi carlos
[09:52] <carlos> pitti, morning
[09:52] <trulux> pitti: will check later
[09:52] <trulux> bbl, class
[09:54] <fabbione> pitti: i find that hard to believe, but we imported a big fat acpi patch that might have these bits...
[09:54] <fabbione> pitti: but checking is not difficult... just grep in debian/patches
[09:55] <fabbione> acpi is the only patch that comes to mind
[09:55] <fabbione> i don't recall changing spinlocks around at all
[09:59] <pitti> fabbione: we don't patch it, so that's indeed bogus
[09:59] <pitti> fabbione: linux-source-2.6.12_<IP_ADDRESS>.orig.tar.gz is exactly 2.6.12rc5 upstream?
[09:59] <fabbione> yes
[09:59] <fabbione> given that the incremental diffs are not borked.. it isd
[09:59] <fabbione> it is
[10:00] <pitti> fabbione: our main concern was the declaration of spin_lock and spin_unlock(). In 2.6.10 they take a spinlock_t, in 2.6.12 a spinlock_t* (a pointer)
[10:00] <pitti> fabbione: I don't believe that we patch such a fundamental issue
[10:00] <pitti> ... and we don't
[10:01] <fabbione> no we don't
[10:01] <fabbione> ;)
[10:04] <pitti> fabbione: ... but please don't forget to unlock him again :-)
[10:06] <fabbione> hehehe
[10:07] <fabbione> humpf.....
[10:07] <fabbione> hmmmm
[10:11] <mjg59> mx|gone: Hi
[10:12] <[Chameleon] > Anybody else in here running Ubuntu on AMD64?
[10:13] <tfheen> [Chameleon] : yes, why?
[10:17] <[Chameleon] > I'm running into problems installing packages, mostly 3rd party, with regard to missing dependencies.
[10:17] <[Chameleon] > I'm just wondering if I should instead go with 32-bit for now... or if maybe I can help get 64-bit packages available?
[10:17] <[Chameleon] > I'm no pro, but I can learn.
[10:18] <pitti> trulux: I verified in pristine 2.6.12rc5: "void __lockfunc _spin_lock(spinlock_t *lock)    __acquires(spinlock_t);" -> that _is_ a pointer
[10:18] <tfheen> [Chameleon] : you're welcome to help out; join #ubuntu-motu if you'd like to do that.  If you give me a bit more precise error than "running into errors", I can try to help you.
[10:18] <pitti> trulux: (I took 2.6.11 and applied the 2.6.12rc5 patch, just for double-checking)
[10:18] <[Chameleon] > specifically, I'm looking to install some BreezyBadger stuff from the backports project and they don't seem to offer much for AMD64.
[10:19] <[Chameleon] > Should I just upgrade to BreezyBadger?
[10:20] <AndyFitz> Chameleon,  short answer.  no
[10:21] <jsgotangco> AndyFitz, hey :)
[10:21] <[Chameleon] > AndyFitz: too immature/unstable at this point?
[10:21] <AndyFitz> jsgotangco, G'day mate
[10:21] <tfheen> [Chameleon] : I would recommend asking the backports people; Backports are not supported.
[10:22] <[Chameleon] > tfheen: OK.
[10:22] <AndyFitz> [Chameleon] :  yeah pretty much.  you'll have to continuously apt-get dist-upgrade -you   and manually revise the packages .. stuff will break
[10:25] <[Chameleon] > AndyFitz, tfheen: thanks
[10:28] <pitti> funny, I just dist-upgraded, now I get a fancy dialog "XSession: [OK] " on login...
[10:29] <Nafallo> pitti: X working?
[10:29] <daniels> pitti: yeah, that's gdm being broken
[10:29] <daniels> i tried to upload it on saturday night, but ended up uploading to unstable
[10:29] <daniels> let me try again now
[10:29] <pitti> Nafallo: yes, exactly as before (with broken Alt and Control)
[10:29] <pitti>
[10:29] <daniels> s/unstable/hoary/
[10:30] <pitti> uh :-)
[10:30] <pitti> the issue is already known and fixed? Great, daniels! :-)
[10:30] <Nafallo> pitti: hmm, last time I upgraded the damn thing wouldn't start ;-)
[10:30] <Treenaks> uploading xorg to unstable would qualify as "bad" :)
[10:30] <pitti> Nafallo: oh yes, I had to remove the "generic mouse" from the config
[10:31] <pitti> Treenaks: actually, nowadays it isn't so bad any more since sarge is frozen
[10:32] <Nafallo> well, locked hoary xorg works ;-)
[10:32] <Lathiat> daniels: the keyboard stuff unbroken yet?
[10:40] <daniels> Lathiat: locally, yes
[10:40] <daniels> Lathiat: sudo ln -s /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/XKeysymDB /usr/lib/X11/XKeysymDB, should get you going in the meantime
[10:43] <[Chameleon] > tfheen, AndyFitz: I'm going to "downgrade" to the i386 version... the current 64-bit deficiencies are too numerous at this time.
[10:43] <daniels> pitti: uploaded
[10:44] <pitti> great
[10:44] <fabbione> daniels: xorg crack?
[10:45] <fabbione> hmm what was the command to get all packages that builddep on foo?
[10:45] <fabbione> (today i am really slow :/)
[10:46] <pitti> daniels: nope, still no luck with above symlink
[10:46] <pitti> xset: command not found
[10:46] <pitti> grr
[10:46] <daniels> pitti: sigh, you probably also need my awesome new libX11
[10:46] <fabbione> pitti: that's because /usr/bin/X11 is empty
[10:46] <daniels> pitti: yeah, that's fixed in -21, which I'll upload later
[10:46] <daniels> fabbione: xorg crack later tonight
[10:46] <fabbione> daniels: cool
[10:47] <pitti> neat
[10:47] <fabbione> pitti: do you happen to remember what is the command to show all the packages that build-dep on foo?
[10:47] <pitti> fabbione: I wish I ever knew such a command
[10:47] <pitti> fabbione: so far I used grep-dctrl
[10:47] <fabbione> ah ok :)
[10:47] <tfheen> fabbione: grep-dctrl?
[10:47] <fabbione> yeah whatever is fine...
[10:48] <pitti> fabbione: apt-cache rbuild-depends would be logical...
[10:48] <fabbione> i just don't know grep-dctrl sintax :)
[10:48] <fabbione> pitti: yeah
[10:48] <pitti> 9955 root      15   0 70988  17m 5168 S 40.2  2.6   1:19.03 Xorg
[10:48] <pitti> daniels: any idea why X.org constantly uses 40% CPU although I do *nothing*?
[10:49] <fabbione> pitti: try to restart firefox :)
[10:49] <fabbione> or mozilla
[10:49] <fabbione> or thunderbird
[10:49] <pitti> fabbione: it's not even open
[10:49] <Treenaks> pitti: stat(); stat(); etc;
[10:50] <daniels> pitti: no idea, sorry
[10:50] <pitti> hm, ok
[10:51] <daniels> pitti: if you have another machine, you could ssh in and break on WaitForSomething with gdb and see what the events out
[10:51] <daniels> s/out/are/
[10:51] <daniels> i'm going to get dinner now, i'll be gone for a while
[10:51] <pitti> bah, system -> logout just hangs now
[10:51] <pitti> I hate you all
[10:51] <[Chameleon] > heh
[10:51] <pitti> (not literally :-) )
[10:54] <pitti> ah, better now
[11:02] <Lathiat> daniels: righton, im not running breezy for the moment anyway, once X has working xkb i'll jump back ship :)
[11:02] <jdub> daniels: around?
[11:03] <fabbione> dilinger: ping?
[11:05] <jdub> daniels: by default, i'm getting crt output like xinerama
[11:05] <jdub> daniels: but it's not 1024x768
[11:05] <jdub> it's another screen
[11:06] <jdub> can't xrandr it
[11:08] <jdub> daniels: can i make X not create the other screen, and use i855crt?
[11:09] <jdub> can i make the second screen do a sensible resolution?
[11:23] <fabbione> Kamion: is there any reason why ssh in breezy reports a "Killed by signal 1." on each command? (including sftp or scp?)
[11:26] <Amaranth> pitti: last time system->logout froze on me i had to kill gnome-panel
[11:28] <Riddell> Mark's talk should be starting soon http://stream.fluendo.com/guadec/konig/
[11:29] <jdub> Riddell: mark's talk is done :)
[11:29] <fabbione> jdub: how did it go?
[11:29] <Amaranth> finished an hour ago
[11:29] <jdub> fabbione: hrm, ok
[11:30] <Amaranth> jdub: what room is the topaz stuff going to be in?
[11:30] <fabbione> only ok?
[11:30] <jdub> Amaranth: um
[11:30] <jdub> the big room
[11:30] <Riddell> aw, did I sleep in?
[11:30] <Lathiat> stupid dodgy uni wireless is nuking the streams
[11:30] <Amaranth> Knigshalle?
[11:30] <jdub> i'm not really sure
[11:31] <Amaranth> that's the keynote room
[11:31] <jdub> my talk is at 14:00, and i need daniel to fix my X ;)
[11:31] <Burgundavia> lol
[11:32] <Nafallo> I can see seb :-)
[11:32] <jdub> i'll probably just turn it into images and use someone else's lappy
[11:32] <Amaranth> you have 2 1/2 hours :)
[11:32] <Lathiat> jdub: heh
[11:32] <Lathiat> install hoary in a chroot and run X out of it :P)
[11:34] <jdub> Lathiat: tempting
[11:36] <jsgotangco> hey its seb
[11:36] <opi> morning
[11:37] <jsgotangco> morning opi
[11:38] <Nafallo> anyone know what's in the Knig room now?
[11:38] <spacey> who is talking atm?
[11:38] <jsgotangco> gdesklets
[11:38] <Treenaks> jsgotangco: no, who is he :)
[11:39] <mx|gone> mjg59: still around?
[11:39] <spacey> hmz stream is gone
[11:39] <Nafallo> indeed
[11:39] <jsgotangco> yeah
[11:39] <mjg59> mx|gone: Hi
[11:39] <jsgotangco> it just died
[11:40] <bob2> Nafallo: lightning talks
[11:40] <bob2> currently gdesklets
[11:40] <mx|gone> mjg59: how hard would it be to upgrade pbbuttonsd in breezy from 0.6.6 to 0.6.10... 0.6.6 has some problems with kernel 2.6.12 that are solved in the newest version
[11:40] <Nafallo> bob2: ooh, isn't that supposed to be in Bertha? ;-)
[11:40] <mjg59> They didn't stream my talk :((((((((
[11:41] <bob2> mjg59: did they record it?
[11:41] <mjg59> mx|gone: Uh. It ought to be trivial
[11:41] <mjg59> mx|gone: (Not my department, though :) )
[11:41] <Nafallo> mjg59: I was irritated over that yesterday evening :-P
[11:41] <mjg59> bob2: Nope
[11:41] <mx|gone> mjg59: yeah, I figured...   :D
[11:44] <mx|gone> mjg59: also, was it you that was working on networkmanager for ubuntu?
[11:45] <tfheen> mx|gone: no, that's thom
[11:45] <mjg59> mx|gone: I worked on the spec, but thom is supposed to be implementing it
[11:45] <mjg59> Robot101: I'm at the front on the left
[11:45] <mjg59> I just stretched
[11:46] <Robot101> ... I've been working on it for 3 years ... its still early days ...
[11:46] <mjg59> OOH XGL
[11:46] <bob2> blingtastic.
[11:46] <mjg59> Indirect rendering
[11:47] <mjg59> BLING
[11:47] <bob2> is that seb about to talk?
[11:47] <Robot101> its buffering now, bah
[11:47] <Robot101> composting manager
[11:47] <mjg59> It's fast
[11:47] <mx|gone> mjg59: pbbuttonsd 0.6.10 is in experimental :)
[11:48] <Treenaks> bb2: Roboot101?
[11:48] <Robot101> this stream is ghetto
[11:48] <Treenaks> bob2: composting manager?
[11:48] <jsgotangco> WOW
[11:49] <bob2> wow
[11:49] <bob2> blingarific
[11:49] <jsgotangco> did you see that
[11:49] <Robot101> BLING
[11:49] <Kamion> fabbione: I've been wondering about that. It's not all commands, but some.
[11:49] <Burgundavia> bling?
[11:49] <fabbione> Kamion: ok..
[11:49] <jsgotangco> that is so cool
[11:49] <Robot101> http://stream.fluendo.com/guadec/konig/audiovideo/java.php
[11:49] <Kamion> fabbione: version in Debian experimental does it too
[11:50] <mjg59> Oh god
[11:50] <jsgotangco> jeezz did you see the corners
[11:50] <mjg59> I am so glad that Mark isn't here watching this
[11:50] <Robot101> mjg59: rofl
[11:50] <jsgotangco> goodness
[11:50] <bob2> daniels: can we do that for breezy?
[11:50] <fabbione> Kamion: it's strange, but the command succeed..
[11:50] <fabbione> Kamion: probably it's something wrong in the exit code?
[11:50] <Kamion> well, signal 1 is only SIGHUP
[11:50] <Kamion> my guess is it's a race condition ...
[11:51] <mjg59> evince now
[11:51] <Robot101> glbling
[11:51] <jsgotangco> that was awesome
[11:51] <Robot101> another inaudible question from the far back left
[11:51] <Robot101> this stream sounds like a steam train... tff tfff tfff tff
[11:53] <fabbione> Kamion: take care
[11:57] <jsgotangco> thats funny he's not presenting in full screen mode
[11:57] <jsgotangco> ahh
[11:58] <Burgundavia> can someone repost taht link?
[11:59] <jsgotangco> http://stream.fluendo.com:8900
[11:59] <jsgotangco> (totem)
[11:59] <Burgundavia> bah
[11:59] <Robot101> oh oh oh, someone ask him why in the windows port of gaim, the tooltips NEVER EVER GO AWAY
[12:07] <mx|gone> jsgotangco: are these the 5 minute speeches?
[12:08] <Robot101> lightning talks, yeah
[12:08] <jsgotangco> lightning talks most likely
[12:08] <mvirkkil> So how do I get x working again in breezy? :-/
[12:08] <mx|gone> they need to speak up
[12:08] <jsgotangco> i wanna see jdub
[12:08] <jsgotangco> heh
[12:09] <Nafallo> mvirkkil: I've downgraded all packages to hoary and locked the version ;-)
[12:09] <mvirkkil> Nafallo: That's no fun ;)
[12:10] <Nafallo> mvirkkil: but it starts ;-)
[12:10] <Nafallo> can't play with blam and stuff though :-P
[12:11] <mvirkkil> Nafallo: Any eta when X will be fixed?
[12:12] <Nafallo> mvirkkil: ask daniels ;-)
[12:12] <mx|gone> man, they need to freaking talk into the mic
[12:13] <jsgotangco> wow he just heard you
[12:13] <Nafallo> mx|gone: if it wasn't high in the air it would be easier ;-)
[12:13] <mx|gone> is that john palmeri?
[12:16] <ogra> yep
[12:16] <mx|gone> cool
[12:16] <mx|gone> I'm guessing murray already went
[12:16] <ogra> which murray ?
[12:16] <mx|gone> cumming
[12:16] <ogra> he was here 1/2h ago...
[12:16] <mx|gone> ah
[12:17] <Kamion> sheesh, there's an openssh 4.1 release already. I only just packaged 4.0
[12:18] <fabbione> happy birthday ssh :)
[12:22] <ogra> heh
[12:27] <jsgotangco> brb
[12:55] <mkde> awesome
[12:55] <mkde> free streaming music
[12:55] <Nafallo> lol
[12:55] <mkde> top stuff
[12:56] <mkde> hmm
[12:56] <mkde> manu chao should steer clear of english i always feel
[01:01] <pitti> doko: btw, how far is the C++ transition? I'm asking because of psql
[01:01] <pitti> carlos: here?
[01:01] <carlos> pitti, hi
[01:02] <doko> it's done for main
[01:04] <pitti> doko: cool
[01:04] <pitti> doko: so it shouldn't interfere too much any more?
[01:05] <doko> I don't think so
[01:05] <Nafallo> yay. looks like jdub got it working :-)
[01:08] <mkde> whats he speaking about?
[01:09] <Nafallo> mdke: nothing yet. topaz 14:00
[01:09] <mkde> local time?
[01:09] <Nafallo> mkde: AFAIK yes.
[01:12] <Amaranth> in 45 minutes
[01:12] <mkde> ty
[01:12] <Amaranth> C++ transition is done in main already?
[01:12] <Amaranth> wow
[01:12] <Nafallo> lots of time to make popcorn :-)
[01:13] <mkde> Nafallo, 45 more minutes of music
[01:13] <Amaranth> frozen pizza with taco cheese on top for me :)
[01:13] <Nafallo> mkde: hehe, yea :-)
[01:13] <mkde> Amaranth, hope you have strong teeth
[01:13] <Nafallo> lol
[01:13] <Amaranth> mkde: have you been putting the stream in a little window in the corner of your screen while you code too?
[01:14] <mkde> *grins*
[01:14] <mkde> i'm "writing an exam" while listening
[01:14] <mkde> not getting much done tho
[01:14] <Amaranth> gets in the way of some of my firefox and gedit tabs
[01:14] <Amaranth> hehe
[01:14] <mkde> i can't code sadly
[01:29] <pitti> jordi: will you upgrade experimental to alsa-lib 1.0.9 soon?
[01:38] <Nafallo> mdke: ey! did the music stop?
[01:39] <Nafallo> :-(
[01:39] <mdke> Nafallo, we better get our own Manu Chao
[01:39] <Nafallo> mdke: URL? ;-)
[01:39] <mdke> erm
[01:39] <mdke> play.com ?
[01:39] <mdke> amazon?
[01:40] <Nafallo> mdke: that's no good streams ;-)
[01:40] <mdke> Nafallo, i don't have enough upload bw to stream i'm afraid
[01:40] <mdke> 128 ;)
[01:41] <Nafallo> mdke: yay. you got actually 4 times less than me :-P
[01:41] <Nafallo> hmm, 3 and  even
[01:41] <mdke> :/
[01:52] <tseng> volunteers to test mono build on ppc?
[01:55] <pitti> tseng: we can try it in the DC
[01:56] <tseng> pitti: ok, i will make you a source package
[01:56] <pitti> tseng: however, if there are any build deps missing, we have to wait until tomorrown, when thom and elmo are back
[01:56] <pitti> tseng: (today is UK holiday)
[01:56] <tseng> pitti: the build-deps are ok, i need to test a patch
[01:56] <tseng> to fix FTBFS
[01:56] <pitti> tseng: no, I mean if the build deps are not installed in the breezy dchroot
[01:57] <tseng> oh.
[01:58] <pitti> tseng: oh, the only thing that is missing is cli-common
[01:58] <pitti> elmo, thom: can we please have cli-common in davis' breezy dchroot?
[01:59] <pitti> tseng: if that is done, we are ready to go
[02:00] <tseng> thanks pitti!
[02:00] <pitti> tseng: how important is cli-common? I can just throw it against the wall and see which packages are building without it
[02:01] <tseng> hm we can remove the dh_*cli* calls and build dep for purposes of testing
[02:01] <pitti> tseng: if you give me a source package I shall test, that's fine
[02:01] <tseng> oh and ${cli:Depends} from control
[02:01] <tseng> k 5 minutes
[02:02] <pitti> no hurry :)
[02:12] <bob2> hey ogra, how's guadec?
[02:12] <Treenaks> ogra? where?
[02:13] <ogra> ohra waves back
[02:13] <ogra> oops
[02:13] <ogra> watch the stream !!
[02:13] <Treenaks> ohra is an insurance company in .nl
[02:13] <ogra> jdub announces gnome 3.0
[02:13] <Treenaks> ogra: which stream?
[02:13] <Simira> :D
[02:13] <tfheen> ogra: where are the debs?
[02:13] <tseng> ogra: bong?
[02:13] <tfheen> :)
[02:13] <Treenaks> ogra: knig?
[02:13] <tseng> what room
[02:14] <ogra> main...
[02:14] <ogra> koenigshalle
[02:14] <ogra> tseng !!!
[02:14] <tseng> pitti: can you get the orig.tar.gz?
[02:14] <ogra> i just talked to miguel !!
[02:14] <tseng> pitti: is uploading slowly
[02:14] <pitti> tseng: I currently have the breezy version
[02:14] <ogra> he really likes you
[02:14] <Treenaks> ogra: and? :)
[02:14] <tseng> ogra: yes?
[02:14] <pitti> tseng: I only need diff.gz and dsc
[02:14] <tseng> hah.
[02:14] <tseng> pitti: http://tseng.ath.cx/mono/ppctest/
[02:14] <ogra> and ordered ubuntu t-shirts for the whole of ximian :-D
[02:15] <tseng> oh man
[02:15] <ogra> yeah !!
[02:15] <tseng> we  have tshirts?
[02:15] <ogra> yep
[02:15] <tseng> wheres that
[02:15] <ogra> but mark had only one left
[02:15] <tseng> oh oh through mark
[02:15] <ogra> hehe :)
[02:15] <mkde> we need to start selling ubuntu tshirts
[02:15] <tseng> mark is talking today, yes?
[02:15] <mkde> Simira had an idea for it
[02:15] <ogra> yep
[02:15] <tseng> :)
[02:16] <Treenaks> heh... NOT mentioning ubuntu ;)
[02:16] <ogra> mdke, we already have hem since sydney
[02:16] <ogra> them even
[02:16] <mkde> ogra, url?
[02:16] <tfheen> mkde: Simira is working on a webshop so we'll have good-quality shirts available in Europe.
[02:16] <tseng> only the devs do ogra
[02:16] <mkde> tfheen, yeah
[02:16] <Simira> mkde: I've done some work on it.  It will take ages before I have that one online, at least if I'm going to work 50% from August...
[02:17] <ogra> GO SLASHDOTTING !!!
[02:17] <ogra> http://stream.fluendo.com:8900/
[02:17] <ogra> in totem ;)
[02:17] <Treenaks> ogra: totem in ubuntu is b0rken
[02:17] <pitti> tseng: building
[02:17] <tseng> pitti: thanks a ton
[02:17] <Treenaks> ogra: ask Amaranth
[02:17] <ogra> Treenaks, only in breezy
[02:17] <pitti> tseng: no worries :-)
[02:17] <Treenaks> ogra: good point
[02:17] <tseng> jdub++
[02:17] <Simira> but I'll order enough t-shirts to ship to Europe as well, then... guess it can't cost that much more.
[02:17] <ogra> but who is crazy enough to use breezy
[02:18] <Treenaks> ogra: *raises hand*
[02:18] <tseng> ogra: hell im crazy.
[02:18] <bob2> Simira: did you like the ones from UDU?
[02:18] <Amaranth> still building libxine with debugging symbols
[02:18] <Amaranth> guadec will be over before i finish, at this rate
[02:18] <Simira> bob2: yup (Tollef got me one). I'm ordering something similar.
[02:18] <bob2> ah, cool
[02:18] <Treenaks> I want one! (at least)
[02:18] <Simira> *sigh*
[02:19] <Simira> seems I just got myself more voluntary work...
[02:19] <ogra> tseng, beware !
[02:19] <ogra> :)
[02:19] <Treenaks> ArseLinux?
[02:19] <Simira> well, shipping t-shirts can't be that hard
[02:19] <bob2> Simira: will they be orderable from outside europe?
[02:19] <maswan> Simira: it might be lots of work though
[02:20] <Simira> bob2: I'm sure it will be cheaper to order one from a local profile-stuff-dealer
[02:20] <bob2> Simira: hmmm, good point
[02:20] <tfheen> bob2: you should start webshop.ubuntu.co.au (or something) :-)
[02:20] <bob2> haha
[02:21] <Treenaks> "i-word" is innovation?
[02:21] <Treenaks> (bricks/mortar)
[02:22] <tfheen> what is the fish doing at the bottom of the stream?
[02:22] <Treenaks> tfheen: ogg
[02:22] <bob2> Treenaks: Papa Sideshow's T-Shirt Emporium
[02:22] <bob2> tfheen: it's the xiph logo
[02:22] <Treenaks> bob2: something like that..
[02:22] <ogra> tfheen, kind of swimmin ?
[02:22] <tfheen> it looks like a non-blown-up blowfish.
[02:22] <Simira> huh
[02:23] <Simira> ogra: not swimming, maybe, if he lies on the bottom?
[02:23] <ogra> heh
[02:23] <Simira> ;)
[02:23] <tfheen> it's static and looks slightly confused.
[02:24] <torkel> tfheen: wouldn't you be that too listening to jdub? :-)
[02:24] <Amaranth> finally he said Ubuntu :P
[02:25] <tfheen> torkel: he doesn't tend to confuse me, since I just respond by throwing crackful ideas at him.
[02:25] <mkde> gosh he is an excellent speaker
[02:25] <torkel> tfheen: :-)
[02:25] <Amaranth> mkde: that's why he's in charge ;)
[02:25] <bob2> bah, dns is fucked here
[02:26] <tseng> bob2: dude just use the ip addresses
[02:27] <bob2> I am, I'm just whinging
[02:27] <tseng> jeez jdub
[02:28] <mkde> *laughs*
[02:28] <hunger> daniels: ping
[02:28] <daniels> hunger: pong
[02:29] <daniels> bob2: can we do what for hoary?  indirect rendering?
[02:33] <Amaranth> indirect rendering? if you're talking mesa that's slow as hell
[02:37] <Unfrgiven> hi all. i need a hand setting up a breezy chroot from sid. can i use the ubuntu package from the DebootstrapChroot page on sid?
[02:38] <siretart> Unfrgiven: install the debootstrap package from breezy in your sid by hand.
[02:38] <siretart> Unfrgiven: the usual howtos/descriptions should work again
[02:39] <Unfrgiven> siretart: when you say "by hand" you mean just a "dpkg -i" right? or manually tear apart the .deb? :)
[02:39] <bob2> Unfrgiven: you need ubuntu's debootstrap, but otherwise it works the same as making a chroot of anything else
[02:39] <siretart> Unfrgiven: yes. download the package from here: http://packages.ubuntu.com/debootstrap, select breezy, and do the dpkg -i thing :)
[02:40] <Unfrgiven> bob2: siretart: thanks :)
[02:43] <mkde> o_O
[02:48] <trulux> heya
[02:48] <pitti> Hi trulux
[02:49] <bob2> pitti: you're not guadec'ing?
[02:49] <trulux> pitti: heya fellow, everything going well?
[02:49] <daniels> pitti: yo
[02:50] <pitti> trulux: <pitti> trulux: I verified in pristine 2.6.12rc5: "void __lockfunc _spin_lock(spinlock_t *lock)    __acquires(spinlock_t);" -> that _is_ a pointer
[02:50] <pitti> trulux: <pitti> trulux: (I took 2.6.11 and applied the 2.6.12rc5 patch, just for double-checking)
[02:50] <pitti> daniels: he
[02:51] <doko> ogra: your attachments for the C++ patches are all unusable ...
[02:51] <pitti> bob2: no, we start our advanced dancing school today, I rather go to debconf5
[02:51] <doko> @@ -1,3 +1,9 @@
[02:51] <doko> +vtk (4.2.6-5ubuntu2) breezy; urgency=low
[02:51] <doko> +
[02:51] <doko> +  * CXX transition: rename libvtk4 to libvtk4c2
[02:51] <doko> +
[02:51] <doko> + -- Oliver Grawert (ogra<EMAIL_ADDRESS>Wed, 25 May 2005 13:03:18
[02:51] <doko> +0200
[02:51] <doko> +
[02:51] <trulux> pitti: of course, here we have a pointer too, I said on my blog: http://www.tuxedo-es.org/blog/archives/5-Some-2.6.12-rc5-API-changes-for-the-shake.html
[02:51] <doko> the timezone is on a new line
[02:52] <trulux> pitti: then I was on crack or something alike 'cos I was getting really weird shit. I will need to track back the last bk-commits made to the LSM framework 'cos the hook pointers seem fucked up
[02:52] <ogra> doko, thats what dch -i did, i didnt change it
[02:52] <ogra> i'll look into it as soon as i'm home...
[02:53] <pitti> tseng: uh, FTBFS
[02:53] <pitti> tseng: I /msg
[02:53] <trulux> pitti: from that point everything will be much easier, and I need to contact my friend from the Singapore D. of Defense who was working on some fixes for the new subject-based capability granting features
[02:53] <tseng> pitti: k
[02:53] <trulux> pitti: any due date?
[02:53] <bob2> pitti: ah, right
[02:53] <trulux> pitti: dead timeline or whatever-else you want to call it
[02:54] <pitti> trulux: well, two weeks? porting the stuff shouldn't be so hard? what do you think?
[02:55] <trulux> pitti: it would take less than a night if it tells you something ;)
[02:55] <trulux> pitti: just that I've been preparing other SELinux crack for upstreams, and writing on my LSM 2005 presentation
[02:55] <bob2> make jdub repeat the question
[02:55] <bob2> the askwer in inaudible
[02:55] <trulux> julien: heyas, there? poc code writing today ;)
[02:55] <bob2> oh, go jdub
[02:56] <trulux> julien: going to set up my testing box for the purpose, need to contact johnw for the attack vector test framework used in his paper, or I'll need to make our own one
[02:56] <ogra> bob2, you havent seen the guy who asked... he needed the whole room to ask... walking from left to right
[02:57] <bob2> haha
[02:57] <jordi> pitti: yes
[03:01] <trulux> pitti: just to confirm, after applying http://pearls.tuxedo-es.org/patches/vsecurity/vsec-0.3-20050526-2.6.12-rc5-fixes.patch and fixing the spinlock issues, what do you get?
[03:04] <tseng> ogra: beagle 0.0.10!
[03:04] <ogra> yay !!
[03:05] <daniels> is mono in main yet? :P
[03:05] <tseng> i dont think so
[03:05] <ogra> i suspect i'll have to wait for a fixed firefox until i can test on amd64
[03:05] <tseng> no
[03:06] <pitti> trulux: testing, takes a while (I reinstalled my system recently and need a ton of pacakges)
[03:06] <Nafallo> ogra: together with Xorg that's my issues to ;-).
[03:06] <ogra> bye, have to move on here
[03:06] <tseng> cya ogra
[03:06] <pitti> trulux: verified, I still get the spinlock errors
[03:06] <pitti> trulux: you have to change them by prepending a & to get a pointer
[03:06] <pitti> trulux: that worked fine for me
[03:07] <trulux> right, then it all compiles OK?
[03:07] <trulux> be sure to check that, or we are in a hurry then
[03:07] <pitti> trulux: didn't check, I didn't create a patch of my mods
[03:07] <trulux> OK, could you just convert the reference to the pointers in the macros and check for compilation?
[03:07] <trulux> be sure my patch is applied
[03:08] <pitti> trulux: I just checked out the cvs head
[03:08] <trulux> ok
[03:11] <pitti> trulux: http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/qiAJcp44.html
[03:11] <pitti> trulux: after that it works better
[03:11] <pitti> but still fails
[03:12] <pitti> trulux: can you please try to fix the rest, using linux-headers-2.6.12-1?
[03:13] <pitti> trulux: just remove the "check" dependency of vsec, and do "make KERNEL_DIR=/usr/src/linux-headers-2.6.12-1/"
[03:13] <trulux> pitti: sure!
[03:13] <pitti> cool
[03:37] <tseng> daniels: ping?
[03:37] <daniels> is mono in main yet? :P
[03:37] <Nafallo> hehe
[03:39] <tseng> daniels: no but my configure cant find scrnsaver.h right after i tell it exactly where it is
[03:40] <tseng> daniels: im also going to force you to look at a libgdiplus cairo ftbfs one of these days :P
[03:40] <daniels> tseng: haha
[03:40] <daniels> tseng: so, um, with the xss thing, bounce me it
[03:53] <Unfrgiven> hi again... apologies for repeat from #ubuntu-motu, i didnt get a response there. i've been looking to help out with the c++ transition. i know ive left it pretty late but i havent had much time recently. anyways, here i am. now im a bit confused looking at the wiki pages... it seems like everything on UniverseCxxTransition is done? or am i reading it wrong?
[03:54] <tseng> dude i would have answered you there the same as here when I came to
[03:54] <tseng> doko, ajmitch, and ogra are the main guys on that
[03:54] <Unfrgiven> tseng: sorry mate, as i said i got no response there :/
[03:54] <tseng> doko just sent a mail out about it I think
[03:55] <tseng> i know i saw one
[03:55] <tseng> now where is it
[03:55] <tseng> oh, its in the topic here rather
[03:56] <Unfrgiven> tseng: ah i see... i was just about to say that i couldn't see anything on the -devel list.
[03:56] <tseng> sorry im banging my head against beagle to see who gives in first
[03:57] <tseng> just need to sneak it past a pbuilder now
[03:57] <Burgundavia> tseng, and think, now you have a new version to play with
[03:57] <tseng> yes
[03:57] <tseng> with no dbus
[03:58] <doko> Unfrgiven, look at https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/CxxLibraryList
[03:59] <Unfrgiven> doko: anything with an empty "who" column is a todo?
[03:59] <doko> Unfrgiven: yes
[04:00] <Unfrgiven> doko: ok excellent... ill get cracking on this tomorrow....
[04:00] <Unfrgiven> doko: thanks. at least now i can have a crack at it and start transitioning.
[04:01] <doko> please make an entry for each line, and submit the patch to bugzilla and have it reviewed before you upload
[04:01] <Unfrgiven> doko: yep will do. i dont have upload permissions anyway :)
[04:02] <Treenaks> tseng: did you upload 0.0.10 yet? :)
[04:03] <tseng> Treenaks: almost
[04:03] <tseng> (gosh)
[04:03] <Treenaks> \o/
[04:03] <Burgundavia> Treenaks, you get the award for the first person to ask him if it was uploaded
[04:03] <Treenaks> Burgundavia: \o/
[04:03] <tseng> it came out about 20 minutes ago
[04:04] <Treenaks> tseng: crack-of-the-hour :)
[04:04] <tseng> 2 hours, im sorry
[04:04] <tseng> 08:04 -|- trow changed the topic of #dashboard to: www.gnome.org/projects/beagle | New
[04:04] <tseng>           Beagle Wiki is up | Beagle 0.0.10 has been released!
[04:04] <tseng> its now 10:04
[04:05] <Treenaks> "Angry Aardvark" anyone? :)
[04:05] <tseng> it needs to pbuilder yet
[04:05] <Burgundavia> nah, Gibbering Gibbon
[04:05] <Burgundavia> cause those are noises you are going to make when it total fails
[04:06] <Burgundavia> s/total/totally
[04:07] <Treenaks> s/totally/horribly/
[04:08] <Burgundavia> then we will need a channel for them #ubuntu-you-are-on-total-crack
[04:08] <Treenaks> #ubuntu-crackheads
[04:08] <Treenaks> shorter, easier to remember
[04:08] <Burgundavia> and freenode senses that they are running GG, it redirects them to that
[04:08] <Burgundavia> from #ubuntu
[04:08] <bob2> #ubuntu-break-my-gentoo^w-brittle-hold-on-sanity
[04:08] <tseng> dude freenode /versions me on connect now
[04:09] <Burgundavia> does everybody
[04:09] <tseng> bob2: gar someone posted my warty mono repo on a wiki page titled "break my ubuntu"
[04:09] <tseng> bob2: i was pissed.
[04:09] <bob2> tseng: haha
[04:09] <bob2> yeah
[04:09] <bob2> I tried to have a talk with those people a while ago
[04:09] <tseng> we are having a meeting on wed. with the backports crew
[04:09] <tseng> i spoke with them a few days ago
[04:10] <Treenaks> tseng: do they understand versioning yet?
[04:10] <tseng> Treenaks: no but they understand why they shouldnt muck around with something the size of mono
[04:10] <tseng> its a start
[04:11] <Treenaks> and when will ubuntuguide be fixed, so it'll be less crappy?
[04:11] <Burgundavia> Treenaks, we are working with the author
[04:11] <Burgundavia> Treenaks, it is not an easy process
[04:11] <Treenaks> I get people who follow ubuntuguide in #ubuntu-nl all the time.. and they keep complaining about broken systems
[04:11] <bob2> Treenaks: synaptic_0.56+revertedto+officialhoary+0.55+cvs20050406-1~5.04ubp1_i386.deb
[04:11] <KaiL> ...wonderful version number ;)
[04:11] <tseng> the ~ is my personal favorite
[04:12] <tfheen> bob2: it should grow a +crackcrackcrack in there too
[04:12] <Burgundavia> tseng, they explain that on their faq
[04:12] <Burgundavia> to allow "easy" upgrading
[04:12] <tseng> i understand it
[04:12] <tseng> i just find it silly
[04:12] <bob2> it's an improvement on the warty backports
[04:12] <bob2> which just upped the version number
[04:12] <bob2> and fucked over people who went to hoary
[04:13] <Burgundavia> I suppose getting stabbed in the gut is better than being stabbed in the gut AND both your eyes
[04:13] <tseng> i like my eyes
[04:19] <tseng> hm libgnomeui dllmap needed
[04:23] <pitti> daniels: still here?
[04:29] <Burgundavia> cya ll
[04:31] <Unfrgiven> good night all....
[04:51] <mvirkkil>  Is there any quick and easy way to get X working in breezy?
[04:51] <mvirkkil> I mean the command line rules, but so does a 1600x1200 desktop ;)
[04:54] <hunger> mvirkkil: That is a question for #ubuntu I think.
[04:54] <mvirkkil> hunger: Ok.
[04:54] <hunger> mvirkkil: ubuntu did setup X automatically for me though.
[04:55] <hunger> mvirkkil: 1600x1200 (with free ATI drivers).
[04:55] <mvirkkil> hunger: Are you using an up to date breezy?
[04:55] <hunger> mvirkkil: Yes.
[04:55] <mvirkkil> hunger: Would you care to dcc me you xorg.conf (I
[04:55] <hunger> mvirkkil: breezy has broken X at the moment though (not all keys work)
[04:56] <mvirkkil> hunger: I had that. Then I rebooted and X would no longer start. Complains about the fixed-font not being found
[05:05] <ozamosi> mvirkkil, sounds like this would help you: http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=183034&postcount=31
[05:06] <mvirkkil> ozamosi: hunger helped me. It was just replacing the /usr/lib/X11 with /usr/share/X11 in the fontpaths
[05:16] <fabbione> chmj: looks ok to me, but please mail kernel-team so that we can do open discussion
[05:16] <fabbione> ops
[05:16] <froud> mdz: breezy release schedule, when do you think you will have a list of the gui apps that will go into breezy?
[05:18] <tseng> froud: you can start with the list thats in hoary
[05:18] <froud> +?
[05:18] <tseng> huh?
[05:18] <froud> yes hoary +?
[05:19] <tseng> gnome-app-install, some mono stuff
[05:19] <tseng> nothing is really concrete at this point, i hope you arent publishing something
[05:19] <froud> I am mostly instersted in the stock install
[05:19] <froud> no planning
[05:20] <froud> tseng: just trying to plan
[05:20] <froud> Ubuntu User Guide and Quick Guide
[05:21] <froud> need to consider how much addition work
[05:21] <tseng> nothing major in -desktop
[05:21] <froud> if not much we can include other work
[05:21] <froud> in our schedule
[05:21] <tseng> gnome-app-install seems to be added
[05:22] <froud> is there a GNOME desktop update planned upstream during now and sept
[05:22] <tseng> yes of course
[05:23] <bob2> froud: ubuntu releases one month after the new gnome release
[05:23] <bob2> it's not a coincidence ;p
[05:23] <tseng> /usr/bin/ld: /usr/X11R6/lib/libXss.a(XScrnSaver.o): relocation R_X86_64_32 can not be used when making a shared object; recompile with -fPIC
[05:23] <froud> OK, got it. Thanks
[05:23] <tseng> /usr/X11R6/lib/libXss.a: could not read symbols: Bad value
[05:23] <tseng> uh oh ogra
[05:23] <tseng> ill make him fix this later :P
[05:24] <tseng> unless its daniels fault
[05:24] <Amaranth> have any of you tried to use gnome-app-install lately? :)
[05:25] <tseng> it seems to be less-than-working
[05:25] <Amaranth> yeah, i just saw that too
[05:25] <Amaranth> it's because of the new python-xdg
[05:25] <Amaranth> the way to set the locale and WM changed
[05:25] <wasabi> Fixed my DMA problems... it is sort of a Ubuntu problem, not hardware.
[05:26] <Amaranth> we're about to release pyxdg 0.12, i'll look at gnome-app-install afterward
[05:28] <eruin> wasabi, like not loading the correct modules at the right time?
[05:30] <GheRivero> res people
[05:39] <fabbione> daniels: you around=?
[05:42] <bob2> 'tis 0140
[05:45] <fabbione> tsk
[05:45] <fabbione> :)
[05:46] <bob2> hah
[05:46] <bob2> just because you don't sleep... :)
[05:46] <fabbione> clearly :)
[06:01] <mdke> does anyone know what is causing this problem, which a few people seem to be getting recently. Apparently it comes and then goes away on its own:
[06:01] <mdke> W: GPG error: http://us.archive.ubuntu.com hoary Release: The following signatures were invalid: BADSIG 40976EAF437D05B5 Ubuntu Archive Automatic Signing Key<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[06:01] <Treenaks> mirror sync in progress maybe?
[06:02] <mdke> hmm
[06:44] <SEBest> hello anyone know how to convert an inode number in his fullpath?
[07:07] <namtrac> daniels: any ETA on next X.org upload?
[10:28] <\sh> anyone knows, if elmo moved python-qt3 to universe already?
[11:16] <mdz> \sh: apt-cache should answer that
[11:17] <mdz> \sh: it's currently in main
[11:19] <\sh> mdz: saw it already
[11:37] <mdke> mdz, got 30 secs?
[11:51] <mdke> i don't recommend the first 12 or 13 minutes
[11:51] <Nafallo> mdke: ehm. the one with Mark Shuttleworth is filmed in the wrong room :-/
[11:52] <mdke> no way
[11:52] <mdke> i've waited 13 minutes to find that out?
[11:52] <mdke> dammit
[11:52] <Nafallo> I've downloaded the whole thing ;-P
[11:52] <mdke> damn thats a bummer
[11:53] <Nafallo> I'm glad I looked at it this morning ;-)
[11:53] <mdke> any other recordings of it?
[11:54] <Nafallo> not that I'm aware of.


[20:58] <airurando> evening
[21:00] <moylan> hi
[21:02] <airurando> how is moylan?
[21:03] <moylan> having fun.  after a few weeks of effort i nearly have a netbook running narwhal.  all hardware problems.  dead disk, iffy touchpad.
[21:03] <airurando> sound like fun........ NOT
[21:04]  * airurando has not taken the plunge yet
[21:04] <moylan> the dying disk was the worst.  i can usually feel the problem from the noise it makes or some other behaviour.  this one just erased the ubuntu partition after 3-4 reboots.  drove me bonkers.
[21:05] <airurando> glad you got it sorted
[21:05] <airurando> moylan has unity grown on you?
[21:05] <airurando> or are you a Xubuntu man now?
[21:06] <moylan> not 100%.  still have an iffy touchpad.  the hp minibook touchpad has no buttons.  a section of the touchpad is devoted to buttons.  however this prevents drag and drop.  at the moment.  there is a work around that i have yet to try.
[21:07] <airurando> hope it works out for you.
[21:07] <airurando> actually you might know this
[21:07] <moylan> hate.  hate unity.  xubuntu fixes 90% of the silliness that is unity.  the snap to full screen and the silly left dock.  still have to fix the scroll bars.
[21:08] <airurando> aye but unity wasn't built for you
[21:08] <airurando> It was built for the masses
[21:08] <moylan> up till narwhal i would recommend ubuntu on a computer to anybody if they could get it preinstalled.  since narwhal, i couldn't make that recommendation.
[21:09] <moylan> it's behaviour is too different to what people expect from a computer interface.  the choices made are wrong.
[21:09] <airurando> I still feel that it can be recommended to people who are not geeks
[21:10] <airurando> moylan, is there any simple way to disable the touchpad while typing other that preferences, mouse, touchpad
[21:10] <moylan> i only recommend what i will use.  i hate unity so much that i could never recommend it as i would go crazy trying to use it for more than a few minutes.
[21:11] <airurando> have you tried gnome 3?
[21:12] <moylan> the problem i'm having is a combination of what's been discussed here.  http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-1388164.html
[21:12] <moylan> i hate the trend for the elimination of buttons!
[21:12] <moylan> haven't tried gnome 3 yet.  you?
[21:14] <airurando> no but I saw it on Julies machine.
[21:15] <airurando> my god she could fly around it.
[21:16] <airurando> I'm wondering if your touchpad problem might be fixed in the coming iterations?
[21:16] <airurando> has it been logged as a bug yet?
[21:17] <moylan> it is and it isn't.  only affects touchpads with no buttons.  different touchpads have different hardware so there are a number of fixes.  which changes per version of ubuntu.  so it keeps having to be redocumented.
[21:19] <moylan> the other problem with touchpads is the tap to click option.  as you type into an editor your hand resting on the touchpad clicks were the mouse pointer is so that you typing becomes gobbledygook.  a fix here worked in xubuntu.  http://www.rhyshale.com/blog/archives/47
[21:19] <moylan> i always turn of tap to click in windows as well.  it's a sillly feature.  at least in my opinion.
[21:20] <moylan> sorry for the rant.  2 weeks of solid hardware hell.  nearly over fingers crossed.
[21:22] <moylan> the biggest problem which i now realise with the touchpad with no buttons is that when you move your hand from the moving the cursor part to the button part your hand touching the button part often moves the pointer away from the button that you wished to click.
[21:22] <airurando> In the broader sense I reckon Ubuntu is gearing itself towards normal folk ie. those that don't live and breath computers
[21:22] <airurando> sorry on the phone at the mo
[21:23] <moylan> then the scroll bars are a disaster.  they require more hand to eye co-ordination than a traditional scroll bar.  more troublesome to use.
[21:27] <airurando> sorry about that moylan.... twas the mother outlaw
[21:28] <moylan> no worries.
[21:29] <airurando> just read back, you are in a pickle.
[21:30] <airurando> unfortunately I've no words of wisdom for you.
[21:30] <moylan> the netbooks main use will be my main system.  it will have a mouse attached so that is not a problem.  however if the problem can not be eliminated then the device is condemned to a location were i can use a mouse.  i often use my netbook on my lap.  so it's not mobile.  grrrrrrrr!
[21:31] <airurando> aye
[21:31] <moylan> and it has allegedly a 10hr battery life.  so mobile and yet not...
[21:31] <airurando> in my experience the theoretical battery life is never ever reached.
[21:32] <moylan> just another piece of information i need to remember before i buy/recommend a new system.  'avoid touchpads with no buttons!!'
[21:32] <airurando> good point.
[21:32] <moylan> true!  but even half that at 5 hours is pretty neat!
[21:32] <airurando> still it should fixed
[21:33] <airurando> you should promote it as a bug.
[21:33] <moylan> they have been selling these for 2 years.  they aren't in a hurry.  hate hp with a passion.
[21:33] <airurando> what percentage of netbooks have the no button touchpad?
[21:34] <moylan> quite low.  but it will increase i suspect.  apple leads the way... again...
[21:34] <airurando> is it just HP?
[21:34] <moylan> probably cheaper as fewer parts.
[21:34] <moylan> only hp that i have noticed.
[21:35] <airurando> if it becomes more widespread then your problem becomes a bigger problem and bigger problems get solved.
[21:35] <moylan> that's certainly a theory.  :-)
[21:36] <moylan> 20 years in support.  i suspect otherwise.
[21:36]  * airurando lives in a buttoned touchpad world.
[21:36] <moylan> used to have a person call once a year with the exact same bug for a decade.  could never get it fixed.  had to live with the calls.
[21:36] <moylan> wish i could get a netbook with a trackpoint.
[21:37] <airurando> maybe a small notebook?
[21:38] <moylan> notebooks are too large.  netbooks are fine.  i suspect in a few years there will (fingers crossed) be a standard size tablet that will run ubuntu.  then you can choose from any addon keyboard with the exact features you want.
[21:39] <airurando> you would know better than me.
[21:39] <airurando> sounds good though
[21:40] <airurando> moylan, have you tried mint?
[21:41] <airurando> only on the problem netbook of course.....
[21:41] <airurando> :)
[21:41] <moylan> i tried it once about 1-2 versions ago.  if xubuntu hadn't been ok i would have tried it next.
[21:42] <airurando> it is great having the different options.
[21:45] <airurando> I'm glad Xubuntu fits the bill for you currently.
[21:45] <moylan> it reminds me of win2000.  one my favourite incarnations of windows.
[21:47] <airurando> old school!!!!!
[21:47] <moylan> whenever i hear people describing unity i hear how they did not like it but have gotten used to it.  you should not get used to a computer.  it should get used to you.
[21:48] <airurando> I have to disagree somewhat with that.
[21:49] <airurando> when something changes the natural instinct is to resist.
[21:49] <airurando> that does not mean the change is bad.
[21:49] <moylan> some change is good.  not all change is good.  i would lump unity into the second.
[21:49] <airurando> Unitys value is yet to be determined IMO
[21:49] <moylan> like firmware updates that remove features.  how did that work out for sony? :-D
[21:50] <airurando> lets see it in 11.10 and particularly 12.04
[21:50] <airurando> lets see if it gets into the hands of 200 million users
[21:50] <airurando> and lets see how they rate it.
[21:51] <moylan> pehaps it will be better.  i will judge it again then.  but for the moment i will not recommend ubuntu to replace windows/mac.
[21:51] <airurando> again I stress I don't believe Unity was made for you
[21:51] <airurando> you have buckets of alternative options.
[21:51] <moylan> i'm the one who will have to support it in my family and friends.
[21:51] <airurando> Unity is for folks like me.
[21:52] <moylan> i think unity is so that ubuntu stands out in the distro herd.  my paranoia/scepticism at work.
[21:53] <airurando> take your point about support
[21:53] <airurando> can't argue there
[21:53] <airurando> but on the other suggestion I must disagree
[21:53] <moylan> now support calls will require reexplaining scrollbars.
[21:54] <airurando> Unity is attempting to provide a simple intuitive interface for jane  and joe soap users.
[21:55] <airurando> I may be wrong but thats what I think.
[21:55] <moylan> that is a good aim.  it really is.  but it breaks so many existing conventions that i have to wonder if this effort will succeed.
[21:56] <moylan> and you may well be right!
[21:56] <airurando> but those conventions have gotten linux nowhere in terms of mass market
[21:56] <ShaneM> What's this non-sense about Unity wasn't made for you. I thought it was made for everyone :)
[21:57] <ShaneM> If you don't like it then chances are you just don't like that type of interface. Not that you're too much of an advanced user.
[21:57] <moylan> it owns the server market.  it is beginning to own the mobile market.  it owns the embedded market.  the user space will happen when it happens.
[21:58] <airurando> ShaneM: I still reckon Unitys primary focus is on getting new users comfortable with linus
[21:58] <airurando> *linux
[21:59] <moylan> it's funnier when you meant linus!  :-)
[21:59] <airurando> yeah I laughed a bit when i read back.
[21:59] <ShaneM> I think Unity is a reaction to the direction of gnome-shell. While Unity might also mean trying making it easier for new users, I don't think the "It's not made for you" it's an excuse to why someone don't like it.
[22:00] <airurando> perhaps I shouldn't have said that
[22:00] <airurando> let me try a different way
[22:01] <airurando> Advanced users have already developed their own ideal interface and way of interacting with linux.
[22:01] <ShaneM> I sort of get what you mean. Just saying that way is kind of dangerous IMO, it's can be seen as kind of a simple way to invalidate their comments
[22:01] <ShaneM> airurando: Yeah I understand :)
[22:02] <airurando> yeah I was wrong with that statement and I apologise
[22:02] <moylan> i didn't take it that way.
[22:02] <airurando> but i didn't mean it to come across negatively
[22:02] <airurando> thanks moylan
[22:02] <ShaneM> airurando: I didn't mean to make you say sorry or anything. Just pointing out some people might take it up that way :)
[22:03] <airurando> ShaneM you are absolutely right
[22:03] <airurando> you pointed something out to me and I agreed.  I felt apology was right.
[22:04] <ShaneM> I've been using Unity with about a month and a half now.... only thing I don't like is the indicators in the bar aren't noticeable enough.


[00:10] <knome> chrisccoulson, micahg: any new ideas on the xubuntu-specific browser start page?
[07:34] <cousin_luigi> Good morning.
[07:36]  * cousin_luigi still has problems with ff10 and flashplayer showing a black panel instead of the video; closing the app and manually killing the process does the trick. He, as recommended here, created a new profile but the problem reappeared.
[07:36] <cousin_luigi> Should I take this problem upstream?


[02:44] <AskUbuntu> Juju - Wordpress hook failed : install | http://askubuntu.com/q/608238
[19:22] <timbo_> hello my friends... anybody listening here...?
[19:23] <timbo_> I am enthralled with MAAS and got a question or two with regards to Dell computers and Boot from Lan
[19:25] <timbo_> I have my controller up and running and all it good..  I am having a tough time getting my nodes to commission..
[19:44] <timbo_> I have a handful of optiplex 750's and it took a little work, but I got my first node to boot from lan successfully.
[19:48] <timbo_> I delete the node from and allow it to be discovered.  When it is ready, I click commission and the node starts up.
[19:50] <timbo_> I am watching the console on the node and it all looks good...  SUCCESS then a login prompt.
[19:51] <timbo_> I try a root login (right or wrong?) and then it gives me some more output and shuts down the node.
[19:52] <timbo_> and the node is back at READY...  Like nothing happened.
[20:06] <timbo_> trying again.. shows up as declared but unknown power type.  I edit the WOL setting and add the MAC.  click commission and the node starts!
[20:11] <timbo_> I am looking through the logs and config files on the controller...  Not finding anything interesting...
[20:13] <timbo_> Anybody been here before and know where to investigate....  I don't need hand holding..  Just a pointer will do.
[20:15] <timbo_> the node shuts down after a while and shows up as READY again...
[22:06] <timbo_> bump
[22:44] <Crossfire0mega> Hi all
[22:45] <Crossfire0mega> So I just setup my first MAAS server and I am having some issues with getting my nodes up and running.
[22:47] <Crossfire0mega> I have two nodes setup and conneced to the network and PXE boot working, they contact the MAAS server and pull the files correctly and go from commission state to ready state but when I select start nodes I get a mesage saying that their state doesnt allow that action.
[22:48] <Crossfire0mega> I have edited both nodes power types and set them to WOL with their mac addresses but still to no avail.
[23:42] <AskUbuntu> Juju - agent-state stuck on allocating | http://askubuntu.com/q/608544


[13:22] <gary_poster> morning!
[13:23] <mrevell> gary_poster: Hey
[18:50] <Rinchen> me
[18:51] <sinzui> you?
[18:52] <sinzui> ewe?
[18:59] <danilos> me
[18:59] <flacoste> danilos: didn't hear the news?
[18:59] <danilos> flacoste: nope
[18:59] <flacoste> danilos: there is no Launchpad meeting anymore
[18:59] <flacoste> danilos: unless you are the translations QA contacts
[18:59] <Ursinha> flacoste, he is
[18:59] <danilos> flacoste: and where is production QA meeting happening?
[19:00] <Ursinha> danilos, it'll happen here
[19:00] <Ursinha> in a few seconds, i presume
[19:00] <danilos> Ursinha: ok, thanks
[19:00] <Rinchen> me me
[19:01] <danilos> I am not exactly sure what should I have ready for this meeting (i.e. QA status or something), so I have nothing :)
[19:01] <Rinchen> hey danilos
[19:01] <danilos> hey Joey
[19:01] <Rinchen> danilos, I need to get a status on your RC item
[19:01] <matsubara> #startmeeting
[19:01] <MootBot> Meeting started at 13:01. The chair is matsubara.
[19:01] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[19:01] <Rinchen> danilos, ping me over in -code and tell me please
[19:01] <danilos> Rinchen: it should be RCFIXED
[19:01] <matsubara> Welcome to this week's Launchpad Production Meeting. For the next 45 minutes or so, we'll be coordinating the resolution of specific Launchpad bugs and issues.
[19:01] <matsubara> [TOPIC] Roll Call
[19:01] <MootBot> New Topic:  Roll Call
[19:01] <Rinchen> me
[19:01] <Ursinha> me
[19:01] <sinzui> me
[19:01] <herb> me
[19:01] <matsubara> me
[19:01] <gary_poster> me
[19:02] <beuno> me
[19:02] <danilos> me
[19:02] <flacoste> me
[19:02] <matsubara> rockstar: ping?
[19:02] <rockstar> I'm here.
[19:02] <Ursinha> registry, translations, foundations, losas are here
[19:02] <rockstar> Sorry, had a pup emergency.
[19:03] <Ursinha> code is here
[19:03] <mthaddon> me
[19:03] <sinzui> Is Bugs represented?
[19:03] <Ursinha> who's missing
[19:03] <matsubara> bigjools: around?
[19:03] <Ursinha> sinzui, it should be BjornT or intellectronica
[19:03] <bigjools> I'll stand in for cprov since he's not here, but I have to leave shortly
[19:03] <Ursinha> well, soyuz is here
[19:04] <sinzui> Intellectronica is in a pub right now
[19:04]  * bigjools waves
[19:04] <bigjools> sensible man
[19:04] <Ursinha> sinzui, i've noticed that
[19:04] <matsubara> ok. let's get moving then
[19:04] <matsubara> btw, who's the dba contacts?
[19:04] <matsubara> contact, even
[19:04] <flacoste> i am
[19:04] <matsubara> all right, thanks flacoste
[19:04] <matsubara> [TOPIC] Agenda
[19:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  Agenda
[19:04] <matsubara>  * Next meeting
[19:04] <matsubara>  * Actions from last meeting
[19:04] <matsubara>  * Oops report & Critical Bugs
[19:04] <matsubara>  * Operations report (mthaddon/herb/spm)
[19:04] <matsubara>  * DBA report (DBA contact)
[19:04] <matsubara>  * Sysadmin requests (Rinchen)
[19:05] <matsubara> so, next meeting same time ok for everyone?
[19:05] <danilos> I'd prefer a few hour earlier
[19:05]  * Rinchen pokes matsubara to change the topic in mootbot
[19:05] <matsubara> oops, sorry
[19:05] <flacoste> stub would also prefer a few hours earlier
[19:05] <matsubara> [TOPIC] Next meeting
[19:05] <MootBot> New Topic:  Next meeting
[19:05] <danilos> actually, this one is really hard for me to attend to, especially since I've started coming for work earlier
[19:06] <Ursinha> matsubara, i have to take all the suggestions and find the best time
[19:06] <Rinchen> I propose doing what Ursinha just said
[19:06] <matsubara> right, so, we'll discuss the next meeting in the list
[19:06] <Ursinha> danilos, jtv told me that, and i'm considering this
[19:06] <danilos> Ursinha: ok, cool
[19:06] <matsubara> all right, moving on
[19:06] <matsubara> [TOPIC] Actions from last meeting
[19:06] <MootBot> New Topic:  Actions from last meeting
[19:06] <danilos> I remember the last time it was because of New Zealenders, and I don't see any this time around so...
[19:07] <rockstar> Well, that's not official yet.
[19:07] <Rinchen> yes, we should be able to go earlier if it's more convenient
[19:07] <matsubara> * stub to patch our fti regexp to avoid OOPSes (bug 174368) and discuss a proper fix with jtv
[19:07] <Ursinha> and considering the people's suggestions, it'll be much probably changed to earlier
[19:07] <flacoste> no progress on that
[19:07] <Ursinha> than now
[19:08] <Ursinha> flacoste, stub wasn't here in the last meeting
[19:08] <danilos> Ursinha: stub is away until Monday, afaik
[19:08] <flacoste> yes
[19:08] <flacoste> like i said: no progress on that
[19:08] <flacoste> i'll check that up with him next week
[19:08] <Ursinha> danilos, flacoste, thanks for pointing that
[19:08] <Ursinha> flacoste, thanks
[19:08] <matsubara> thanks flacoste.
[19:08] <matsubara> [TOPIC] Oops report & Critical Bugs
[19:08] <MootBot> New Topic:  Oops report & Critical Bugs
[19:09] <matsubara> Today's oops report is aboug bug 271561 and OOPS-991SMPM37, OOPS-991EB136, OOPS-992C476.
[19:09] <flacoste> is that one for us or code?
[19:10] <matsubara> flacoste: for code, but you could jump in and give the guys some help. they think it's related to Zope stuff
[19:10] <flacoste> they always do :-)
[19:10] <matsubara> :-)
[19:10] <rockstar> :)
[19:10] <Ursinha> :)
[19:10] <flacoste> the OOPS seems unrelated though
[19:10] <flacoste> i mean the oops reference is about Archive:+index
[19:11] <matsubara> btw, OOPS-992C476 is another one that seems related to zope stuff
[19:11] <flacoste> err, sorry,
[19:11] <rockstar> flacoste, I'll follow up with the rest of the team this evening, and let them know that you're willing to help
[19:11] <flacoste> fortunately, we have a zope master that joined this week
[19:11] <flacoste> everyone, meet gary_poster
[19:11] <gary_poster> heh
[19:11] <Rinchen> hi gary_poster!
[19:11] <flacoste> gary_poster, meet everybody :-)
[19:11] <matsubara> sorry, I don't have bugs for those yet as I they showed up in today's report
[19:11] <Ursinha> gary_poster, welcome :)
[19:11] <gary_poster> hi everybody
[19:11] <matsubara> rockstar, there is a double tilde in the URL in OOPS-991SMPM37. It looks quite
[19:11] <matsubara> strange. Do you know why that might be happening?
[19:11] <danilos> gary_poster: hey, welcome :)
[19:11] <bigjools> howdy gary_poster
[19:11] <gary_poster> thanks :-)
[19:11] <matsubara> hi gary_poster, welcome!
[19:12] <matsubara> I've asked salgado about OOPS-991EB136. salgado suspects it's caused by a bug
[19:12] <matsubara> in IE causing the map to not render properly. I'll test it a bit and follow up
[19:12] <matsubara> with salgado (updating the already filed bug or file a new one if necessary)
[19:12] <flacoste> matsubara: /C476 seems to be a fallout of stub db policy branch
[19:12] <flacoste> matsubara: so we will take it
[19:12] <danilos> (so that's why we didn't start this meeting with "hi, I am an alcoholic": leaving a good impression on the new guy)
[19:12] <rockstar> matsubara, I'm unclear as to what you're asking me.
[19:12] <gary_poster> :-)
[19:12] <matsubara> flacoste: all right. i'll file a bug and assign to you after the meting
[19:12] <Ursinha> haha
[19:12] <matsubara> meeting
[19:13] <flacoste> matsubara: regarding code bug: "I lean towards the scanner."
[19:13] <flacoste> that's from jml
[19:13] <matsubara> rockstar: re: https://devpad.canonical.com/~matsubara/oops.cgi/2008-09-17/SMPM37 there's a double tilde in the URL which is quite strange
[19:13] <rockstar> Yea, the scanner has been undergoing some changes recently, so it's probably an acurate guess.
[19:14] <rockstar> matsubara, someone hacking the url?
[19:14] <rockstar> Or possibly a bzr branch config problem.
[19:15] <matsubara> well, that's branch puller oops
[19:15] <rockstar> Yea, that's confusing.
[19:16] <matsubara> rockstar: I'll file a bug about it and we can try to figure out if it's a problem on our side or just broken bzr branch config
[19:16] <matsubara> we don't have a Bugs team contact, but I'd like to ask about the api timeout bug
[19:17] <matsubara> I'll have to follow that up with them later then.
[19:17] <matsubara> btw, thanks for identifying the problem on that timeout flacoste
[19:17] <flacoste> thanks goes to leonard
[19:17] <flacoste> matsubara: for the record, i think we have a similar issue in answers
[19:17] <matsubara> I'm done with OOPSes. anything else shows up in the summaries today. I'll follow up with the teams
[19:18] <Ursinha> great
[19:18] <Ursinha> well, there are four critical bugs, three fix committed, one opened
[19:18] <Ursinha> bug 269384
[19:18] <Ursinha> is a bug related to bugzilla
[19:18] <matsubara> flacoste: thanks for letting me know. can you assign one of yours to investigate if it's a problem?
[19:18] <flacoste> matsubara: you mean answers, it's not yet because it's not exposed in the API, but I know the same algorithm is used there
[19:20] <matsubara> flacoste: right. I'll open a bug task for it and add your comment there then so we won't forget
[19:20] <flacoste> matsubara: thanks
[19:20] <matsubara> btw, answers is under your jurisdiction isn't it?
[19:21] <matsubara> Ursinha: I guess will have to check with the Bugs team about that one later
[19:21] <Ursinha> matsubara, seems the best option
[19:22] <Ursinha> i'll do that when intellectronica returns from pub
[19:22] <matsubara> thanks Ursinha
[19:22] <flacoste> matsubara: i think it's registry jursidiction nows
[19:22] <Ursinha> i'll try
[19:22] <sinzui> ha ha
[19:22] <matsubara> flacoste: oh, I wasn't aware.
[19:22] <matsubara> the one man show!
[19:22] <sinzui> I am happy to take Answers
[19:22] <matsubara> sinzui: cool! thanks!
[19:22] <flacoste> matsubara: well registry team has just been formed, so it's normal
[19:22]  * sinzui was in Answer bugs looking for a dup of the fti OOPs anyway
[19:23] <matsubara> right. moving on
[19:23] <matsubara> [TOPIC] Operations report (mthaddon/herb/spm)
[19:23] <MootBot> New Topic:  Operations report (mthaddon/herb/spm)
[19:23] <herb> * 2008-09-11 - Cherry pick r6972
[19:23] <herb> * Had a couple of incidents of codebrowse needing to be restarted (2008-09-12, 2008-09-15)
[19:23] <herb> * Had a couple of incidents of app servers dying and leaving a stale PID file (2008-09-15, 2008-09-17)
[19:23] <herb> * Send a core dump of last lpnet app server death to flacoste for analysis
[19:23] <herb> * 2008-09-17 - Roll out 2.1.9
[19:24] <herb> * Have retired authserver(s) and separate restricted librarian
[19:24] <herb> * Pending DB query on LPS from jtv still needs approval (or otherwise)
[19:24] <herb> That's it from Tom, Steve and me unless there are any questions.
[19:24] <flacoste> herb: aargh, i completely forgot that one, thanks for reminding me :-/
[19:24] <herb> flacoste: no problem. :)
[19:25] <Rinchen> herb, rockstar - is the codebrowse issue still being working on by mwh?
[19:25] <rockstar> Rinchen, I know there was a production issue last night, but I think jml was working on it.
[19:25] <herb> Rinchen: I'm not aware if it is. I haven't been as tenacious about it as perhaps I should have been.
[19:25] <Rinchen> k, thanks
[19:26] <matsubara> thanks herb
[19:26] <matsubara> [TOPIC] DBA report (DBA contact)
[19:26] <MootBot> New Topic:  DBA report (DBA contact)
[19:26] <matsubara> flacoste: stage is yours
[19:26] <flacoste> that will be a short one
[19:26] <flacoste> replication scripts branch was cut-off when PQM went release-critical
[19:27] <flacoste> they'll land once stub is back and PQM re-opens
[19:27] <flacoste> which means we should see some testing of replication on demo next week
[19:27] <flacoste> EOT
[19:27] <cprov> me (apologies, I'm late, because I'm a moron !)
[19:27] <rockstar> Wow, that was short.
[19:27] <Rinchen> yay! finally testing on demo
[19:27] <herb> flacoste: how did we miss the xmlrpc session user?
[19:27] <matsubara> thanks flacoste
[19:28] <flacoste> herb: because the session was not used previously
[19:28] <herb> ah
[19:28] <flacoste> the multi-store supprot make it used on every erequest
[19:28] <flacoste> which made the xml-rpc server needed it
[19:29] <matsubara> [TOPIC] Sysadmin requests (Rinchen)
[19:29] <MootBot> New Topic:  Sysadmin requests (Rinchen)
[19:29] <herb> flacoste: thanks.
[19:29] <Rinchen> Is anyone blocked on an RT or have any that are becoming urgent?
[19:29] <flacoste> sinzui has one
[19:29] <flacoste> well, not urgent
[19:29] <flacoste> but a new one
[19:29] <flacoste> that came in late
[19:29] <sinzui> One that we want settled by next week
[19:29] <Rinchen> lay the number on me
[19:29] <flacoste> sinzui: i wanted to comment on that
[19:29] <flacoste> buyt didn't have the number
[19:30] <flacoste> i don't thin it's required for landing
[19:30] <flacoste> only for testing
[19:30] <Rinchen> ok, get that to me when you can with a due date
[19:31] <matsubara> ok. is that it?
[19:31] <matsubara> any comments before closing the meeting?
[19:31] <Rinchen> think so, back to you matsubara
[19:31] <matsubara> thanks Rinchen
[19:31] <danilos> matsubara: thanks for running this first instance of the production meeting :)
[19:31] <Rinchen> thanks matsubara. You'll be talking to Tom B about attendance ?
[19:32] <matsubara> Rinchen: Ursinha will do :-)
[19:32] <Ursinha> Rinchen, i'll do
[19:32] <matsubara> danilos: np. will sort out a better time for you dude
[19:32] <matsubara> Thank you all for attending this week's Launchpad Production Meeting. See the channel topic for the location of the logs.
[19:32] <Ursinha> sweet
[19:32] <matsubara> #endmeeting
[19:32] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 13:32.
[19:32] <danilos> thanks and good night
[19:32] <Ursinha> danilos, bye, thanks for attending
[19:33] <rockstar> Thanks!
[19:33] <Ursinha> thanks all for attending :)


[19:58] <_marx_> hey SimonNL
[19:59] <SimonNL> entering this channel made me think of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtLqmWt2h2g