[00:04] <dutchie> night
[00:05] <BigRedS> g'night!
[00:09] <Azelphur> Is there a way I can do some kind of text overlay thing? (In python)
[00:09] <Azelphur> I'm sure I saw a command line tool that could draw text
[00:11] <moreati> Azelphur: what do you want the text to overlay?
[00:11] <Azelphur> I mean like just display big information text on the screen
[00:12] <moreati> Azelphur: probably gnome-osd or python-osd packages
[00:13] <BigRedS> zenity?
[00:15] <Azelphur> zenity doesn't seem to do it
[00:16] <Azelphur> and gnome-osd errors for me
[00:16] <Azelphur> gonna try python-osd
[00:20] <moreati> Azelphur: there's also the notification API/it's dbus interface
[00:20] <Azelphur> pyosd works :D
[00:25] <hazrpg> hmm, has anyone made their own domain as an OpenID?
[00:26] <hazrpg> i know you can by adding in rel="openid2.provider", etc in the header... but is there a way to do it using .htaccess or similar?
[00:28] <Azelphur> moreati: only problem is that it triggers compiz fire :(
[00:28] <Azelphur> and I can't seem to get a wintitle or class or anything
[00:29] <moreati> hazrpg: I did it with a wordpress plugin
[00:29] <moreati> Azelphur: that went straight over my head i'm afraid
[00:29] <Azelphur> haha
[00:33] <iclebyte-work> i have an ubuntu system which will not listen to shutdown -r now or init 6 - anything else we can try?
[00:34] <moreati> iclebyte-work: What happens when you run those commands?
[00:35] <iclebyte-work> we get the normal message "system is shutting down" etc
[00:35] <iclebyte-work> then the system doesnt go down
[00:35] <iclebyte-work> it's just running as normal
[00:38] <moreati> iclebyte-work: is it remote, or have a remote KVM? can you press the power button?
[00:38] <iclebyte-work> we'll just drive there
[00:38] <moreati> right
[00:39] <shauno> if you're ready to hit the power switch, I'd just use sysrq
[00:40] <moreati> iclebyte-work: all I can suggest is look in dmesg/syslog/messages for signs of something suppressing the shutdown
[00:43] <shauno> s is sync, u is unmount (everything), b is reboot.  echo them into /proc/sysrq-trigger  one at a time (a few seconds apart, so it actually has time to sync disks before you kill it) and it should reboot on B.
[00:43] <shauno> it's brutal, but less so than hitting the power
[00:44] <shauno> (you'd usually want r, e, i, sub but e & I will kill ssh)
[00:48] <shauno> (should probably point out he's asking the same question in more than one channel; I'm not just skipping the troubleshooting and going straight for the hammer ;)
[01:14] <hazrpg> AlanBell: I just thought, the ubuntu-uk.org doesn't have the OpenID plugin installed on WordPress
[01:14] <hazrpg> might be worth doing
[02:03] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu Global Jam: Call For Events! - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/02/15/ubuntu-global-jam-call-for-events/
[02:12] <Azelphur> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/February%202011/2011-02-15-020419_1920x1200_scrot.png
[02:12] <Azelphur> sound boarding like a pro with wine, python, xlib and pyosd :D
[02:12] <Azelphur> (the text in the middle is overlayed)
[02:40] <ali1234> but why?
[02:41] <Azelphur> ali1234: so I can sound board easier? :D
[02:42] <ali1234> why don't you reprogram the G19 to play sounds on the g keys?
[02:42] <ali1234> that would be easier than scrolling through a list
[02:42] <Azelphur> got more than 12 sounds, still stuck with the macros thing (even jgeboski seems a little stumped) and I wanted to make it work so my friends could use it too :)
[02:43] <ali1234> or for that matter why even use a sound board? why not just get a mic and scream at people?
[02:43] <Azelphur> why go to the effort of screaming when you can press a button and have it scream for you :D
[02:43] <ali1234> because you can be more creative
[02:44] <Azelphur> *shrug*
[02:44] <ali1234> GET ON THE BALL
[02:45] <Azelphur> ARE YOU ON THE BALL?
[02:45] <hazrpg> I feel very sad for ubuntu right now :(, first time everything seems to be going wrong for me... its weird!
[02:46] <Azelphur> ali1234: http://splicd.com/2YEfXE2tzyg/46/49 :D
[02:48]  * hazrpg determined to figure out solutions to all his problems
[02:49] <hazrpg> is it just me, or is the nvidia driver for linux a bit... odd...
[02:51] <hazrpg> I mean applications seem to think my resolution is - specially when working with OpenGL
[02:51] <hazrpg> I mean a few games seem to think my screen is 2560x1024 xD
[02:51] <ali1234> it is sometimes a bit odd with twinview
[02:51] <ali1234> there are ways around it
[02:51] <ali1234> for wine use virtual desktop mode
[02:51] <ali1234> it works well
[02:51] <hazrpg> nah, this is for naive ubuntu games
[02:52] <ali1234> but yeah, it always messes up fullscreen
[02:52] <ali1234> especially youtube
[02:53] <hazrpg> I mean for example Tux Type - seems to take up the full screen, which is awesome... if it was for the fact that I have like 2-3 inches in the middle where the two screens meet!
[02:53] <hazrpg> if it wasn't*
[02:54] <hazrpg> so tempted to see if I can just rip out those plastic sections of the monitor and see if I can get them as close together as possible!
[02:54] <ali1234> it's annoying that you have to buy a high end monitor just to get one without a stupid huge bezel
[02:55] <hazrpg> ...oh wait! I could buy like lots of polymorph type stuff and mold my own screen plastic!
[02:55] <ali1234> yeah or you could just design it and have it built by one of those online shops
[02:56] <hazrpg> won't it be cheaper just buying a monitor that already has it set like that though :P?
[02:56] <ali1234> either way it is probably cheaper to just buy a new monitor
[02:56] <hazrpg> polymorph is pretty cheap from maplins
[02:57] <hazrpg> and I'm sure it wouldn't take too much to mold a screen... I mean it just has to hold the screen in place, I couldn't care less if the board at the back wasn't covered or not
[02:57] <hazrpg> I barely see that anyways
[03:06] <hazrpg> holy crap!111222341``1A!][#
[03:06] <hazrpg> grr#
[03:07] <hazrpg> ignore that
[03:07] <shauno> the trick is hoping that your monitor just has slack space inside the bezel :)
[03:07] <hazrpg> was just seeing if i cover the contacts on the keyset if it would let me use the enter key and it does, however shift key doesn't work :/#
[03:08] <hazrpg> also, enter key is both enter and hash key#
[03:09] <hazrpg> must be something to do with the layout thats causing these issues ;/
[03:09] <shauno> I think I'd have to suggest buying a real keyboard :p
[03:10] <hazrpg> i would if i could afford one lol
[03:11] <shauno> reminds me, I need to find a ps2 keyboard sometime soon.  that's going to be fun
[03:11] <hazrpg> i have lots of those if you want one dude :/
[03:11] <hazrpg> my motherboard only takes ps/2 mice, not keyboards :/ its odd
[03:12] <shauno> we discovered we can 'repurpose' some embedded equipment that's being EOL'd at work
[03:14] <hazrpg> hi, testing, testing, one two three.... using alt keyboard i had lying around...
[03:14] <hazrpg> grr, some key dont work right :/
[03:14] <shauno> turns out they're only a soldering iron & a bios flash away from being perfectly boring ECX form-factor x86's
[03:14] <hazrpg> must be something to do with the keyset
[03:15] <hazrpg> wow heh
[03:16] <shauno> only 800MHz /w 256 meg, but 2 ethernet ports & 2 serial ports  (only one is rs232 tho).  going to try to bag one (or two) & make a firewall :)
[03:17] <shauno> mostly because I've got a crazy plan to see if I can use it as a SLIP gateway for my amiga
[03:18] <ali1234> last time i used it my amiga supported PPP
[03:19] <ali1234> and that's very easy to set up
[03:23] <shauno> slattach & add a route always seemed easy enough
[03:25] <ali1234> ppp + proxyarp is easier
[03:25] <hazrpg> how do i find out what drivers are being used for a device, and where the file is?
[03:25] <ali1234> look in /sys
[03:28] <shauno> I'll have to have a poke.  should be getting the first one wednesday, but it's kinda moot until I can move my laptop off my monitor
[03:33] <hazrpg> ali1234: hmm, no luck with that one... want to see if I can change a file somewhere so that I can insert my own values in - like a tweak/hack per say
[03:34] <ali1234> rebuild the kernel?
[03:34] <hazrpg> how will that help?
[03:34] <ali1234> if you want to change drivers...
[03:35] <hazrpg> do elaborate some more please
[03:36] <hazrpg> <== only knowledge of a kernel is that it is the big brains of the whole operation, and without it we wouldn't even have an o/s, that it stores drivers, and other various functions, but thats as far as my knowledge goes
[03:36] <shauno> you're using a different keyboard now ?
[03:36] <ali1234> do you know what a kernel module is?
[03:37] <hazrpg> erm, I'm going to guess its like a programming module, and has a set of functions in it for various things (like a plugin?)
[03:37] <hazrpg> shauno: yeah, I just ripped out my dell server keyboard out and i'm using that right now
[03:38] <hazrpg> feels so un-natural though, I've been using my zboard for about 4-5 years now
[03:38] <ali1234> did you make a bug report about this?
[03:38] <hazrpg> yeah
[03:38] <hazrpg> I think so at least...
[03:38] <ali1234> what's the bumber?
[03:39] <ali1234> i mean bug number
[03:39]  * hazrpg logs into launchpad
[03:40]  * hazrpg internet has decided to be slow...
[03:41] <hazrpg> heh, typical it didn't send :/
[03:41] <hazrpg> all my other bugs are there but that one :/
[03:41]  * hazrpg screams @ pc
[03:42] <hazrpg> ali1234: that would be a no on the bnumber then :/
[03:42] <hazrpg> bug number*
[03:44] <ali1234> did you determine that it is a regression?
[03:44] <hazrpg> yeah, the keyboard was working under 9.10
[03:45] <ali1234> ok, you should test vanilla kernels between 9.10 and current
[03:46] <ali1234> not vanilla
[03:46] <ali1234> use the unnoficial packages
[03:46] <hazrpg> hmm, how would I do that?
[03:46] <ali1234> http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/
[03:47] <ali1234> !info linux karmic
[03:47] <ali1234> so start with 2.6.32 kernel
[03:47] <ali1234> no, start with 2.6.34
[03:48] <ali1234> basically try to find the latest version where it works
[03:51] <hazrpg> hmm, I've never had to install a kernel before (minus the whole auto-update process)
[03:51]  * hazrpg is still a geek in linux training
[03:52] <ali1234> you need headers_*_all and image_* for your architecture
[03:53] <ali1234> with is probably amd64
[03:53] <ali1234> then install them like "sudo dpkg -i *.deb"
[04:06] <hazrpg> oh wait, hang on... (looks at disc carefully...)
[04:07] <hazrpg> apparently I tested it on a 32-bit version
[04:07] <hazrpg> that could potentially wield different results on a 64-bit version... could it not?
[04:07]  * hazrpg he says as he now burns off a amd64 version
[04:08] <hazrpg> I just used the disc I got from shipit years ago
[04:08] <ali1234> just use the kernel package
[04:09] <shauno> that does make regression-testing fun, if it works in a 32bit 9.10 but not in a 64bit 10.10.  gives you a second dimension of permutations
[04:09] <ali1234> right, so test the 64 bit 2.6.31 kernel first, and if it works you know it is a kernel regression
[04:09] <ali1234> i highly doubt arch affects usb devices or keymaps
[04:09] <hazrpg> indeed :)
[04:10] <hazrpg> you'd be surprised dude... I hate to use windows as an example, but I refused to use 64-bit versions of them for years (until Win7) because of driver issues
[04:11] <ali1234> windows is completely different
[04:11] <hazrpg> thats why i said i hate to use windows as an example :P
[04:11] <shauno> I'm not sure it's a keymap issue if showkey is pretending the button doesn't exist
[04:11] <hazrpg> agreed
[04:11] <ali1234> 64 bit problems were not caused specifically by 64 bit but by them all being closed source and the vendors do not want to pay developers to recompile them
[04:12] <hazrpg> ah
[04:12] <hazrpg> right, brb... gonna test this out...
[04:19] <shauno> kinda messy that removing nginx leaves entries in logrotate.d
[04:20] <hazrpg> using my netbook for now - man, whoever thought tiny kid sized keys was a cool idea was an idiot lol
[04:20] <hazrpg> I have a feeling that this disc didn't burn right :/
[04:21] <hazrpg> taking forever to load
[04:22] <hazrpg> shauno: ?
[04:22] <ali1234> just use the kernel package lol
[04:24] <hazrpg> i would if I knew how :p
[04:24] <ali1234> like i said
[04:27] <ali1234> hazrpg: http://pastebin.com/NuaM98Dw
[04:27] <ali1234> oops ignore that
[04:28] <ali1234> http://pastebin.com/z3SvGXx6
[04:29] <hazrpg> okay, this is weird, enter key is non responsive in 64-bit
[04:30] <ali1234> hmm
[04:30] <ali1234> what keyboard is it again?
[04:30] <hazrpg> zboard
[04:30] <hazrpg> not zboard merc (as all the ppl on the forum seem to be using)
[04:31] <ali1234> what are the usb ids?
[04:31] <ali1234> Bus 002 Device 003: ID 1038:0100 Ideazon, Inc. Zboard
[04:32] <hazrpg> Bus 008 Device 004: ID 1038:0100 Ideazon, Inc. Zboard
[04:33] <hazrpg> Bus 008 Device 003: ID 03eb:3301 Atmel Corp. at43301 4-port Hub
[04:34] <hazrpg> that last one is the USB Hub that's build in
[04:34] <hazrpg> although its 2 port not 4 :/
[04:35] <hazrpg> man if I knew how to program drivers... I would try to create one myself :/
[04:35] <ali1234> pastebin lsmod please
[04:36] <hazrpg> shall I boot back into 10.10 first?
[04:36] <ali1234> doesn't matter
[04:39] <hazrpg> http://paste.ubuntu.com/567208/
[04:40] <hazrpg> took me a moment to remember that > saves to file lol
[04:40] <ali1234> generic hid
[04:41] <ali1234> let's see dmesg
[04:42] <hazrpg> http://paste.ubuntu.com/567209/
[04:44] <hazrpg> heh, I just realise - ubuntu is only seeing 2 out of 4 HDDs too :/
[04:44] <hazrpg> I have a feeling its to do with my motherboard all these issues :/
[04:44] <ali1234> i think i know the problem
[04:44] <ali1234> in your bios, is usb legacy support on or off?
[04:45]  * hazrpg wish i could decipher all these messages
[04:45] <hazrpg> legacy is set to auto
[04:45] <ali1234> [    8.410264] generic-usb: probe of 0003:1038:0100.0004 failed with error -22
[04:45] <ali1234> this is the problem
[04:45] <hazrpg> so I would assume it's turning it on
[04:45] <ali1234> the keyboard is not operating on usb
[04:45] <ali1234> can you show dmesg from 32 bit where it works?
[04:46] <ali1234> i suspect that even with the new bios your motherboard does not support this keyboard properly in legacy mode
[04:46] <hazrpg> that was 32-bit
[04:46] <ali1234> wait what?
[04:46] <hazrpg> yeah ikr
[04:47] <ali1234> so it works now?
[04:47] <ali1234> in 32 bit?
[04:47] <hazrpg> nope, not a clue why its so on & off like this
[04:47] <ali1234> so it randomly works?
[04:47] <hazrpg> out of 5 tries now, on 32-bit it worked twice
[04:48] <ali1234> is it because of the other keyboard you have plugged in?
[04:48] <hazrpg> ah crap, could be
[04:48] <ali1234> bios legacy mode probably only uses the first keyboard it sees
[04:48] <hazrpg> unplug, reboot?
[04:48] <ali1234> yeah
[04:50] <hazrpg> baring in mind the difference between these boots now and the first time I tried - the BIOS was updated
[04:50] <hazrpg> 0505 was the previous one, and 0802 is the one currently in use as of say 5-6hrs ago
[04:51] <hazrpg> noticed ubuntu is ignoring my 2 HDD's too
[04:51] <hazrpg> only showing 2 out of 4
[04:51] <ali1234> i think you should find a ps2 keyboard and turn off usb legacy support
[04:51] <hazrpg> but that might just be because of the controllers on the motherboard - 2 of them are showing up in CMOS as primary and the other 2 as secondary
[04:52] <hazrpg> only have one ps/2 port and i have a feeling its for mice only
[04:53] <hazrpg> nope, no response from enter key still
[04:53] <hazrpg> that'll be 2 out of 6 tries now
[04:53] <ali1234> i would expect it to be for keyboard or autodetecting
[04:53] <hazrpg> could give it a shot if you like, got a ps/2 keyboard behind me
[04:54]  * hazrpg so glad he never throws out old working hardware
[04:54] <hazrpg> still wanting those pastebins?
[04:54] <ali1234> you might not even need ps2, it's just incase you can't get into the bios with usb if it is turned off
[04:54] <ali1234> which i doubt actually
[04:54] <ali1234> especially if it doesn't have ps2 keyboard port
[04:56] <hazrpg> wish my old motherboard still worked, would test 10.10 on that if i could
[04:56] <hazrpg> actually wait....!
[04:56] <hazrpg> i have an older system my sister uses in here that i could put the keyboard into
[04:56] <hazrpg> also running 10.10
[05:03] <hazrpg> well ive found my hdd issue
[05:04] <hazrpg> there 2 white sata ports and 4 black ones
[05:04] <hazrpg> dvd/2hdd's on in the black and one 2 in the white
[05:04] <hazrpg> guessing the white ones are why they keep showing up as IDE in BIOS
[05:05] <ali1234> sounds like you have all the legacy stuff turned on in the bios
[05:05] <ali1234> turn it off, you don't need it
[05:07] <hazrpg> heh grub doesn't like my keyboard right now :P
[05:07] <hazrpg> but that'll be because legacy is off
[05:08] <ali1234> yes
[05:08] <hazrpg> however, as far as the hard drives go - i can set it to either "use as IDE" or use as "ACPI" or whatever the AC** is
[05:09] <hazrpg> nope, no enter key on keyboard still
[05:09] <ali1234> AHCI
[05:09] <MartijnVdS> morning everyone
[05:09] <hazrpg> that would be the one :)
[05:10] <ali1234> use that one
[05:10] <MartijnVdS> Always use ACHI :)
[05:10] <ali1234> dunno about your keyboard though :/
[05:10] <hazrpg> AHCI doesn't show up anything though ubuntu
[05:10] <hazrpg> nor in bios
[05:10] <MartijnVdS> hazrpg: it should show up in the bios
[05:10] <hazrpg> however windows can see those drives tho
[05:11] <MartijnVdS> hazrpg: ah maybe it's "software raid"
[05:11] <hazrpg> MartijnVdS: that it would :)
[05:11] <hazrpg> which is why i'm planning on moving them over to the other set of SATA ports with the rest of them
[05:11] <MartijnVdS> hazrpg: hazrpg dmraid!
[05:12] <MartijnVdS> hazrpg: dmraid should be able to cope with "assisted raid" from most chipsets
[05:12] <hazrpg> but the hard drives aren't actually RAID'd as far as I'm aware - they each have their own set of partitions, etc
[05:13] <MartijnVdS> sure, but if the controller is/was set to RAID mode, it'll set them up differently
[05:13] <MartijnVdS> it'll add a "header" to the beginning or end of the disk
[05:14] <hazrpg> MartijnVdS: by default it was set to IDE
[05:14] <hazrpg> and those drives were created on an older system
[05:14] <hazrpg> moment, going to rip out the keyboard and place into other machine
[05:16] <hazrpg> nope, not working in that either
[05:16] <hazrpg> i wonder if the stupid drivers in windows flashed the internal chips of the keyboard too??
[05:16] <ali1234> ... no
[05:17] <hazrpg> it was an install package, and the drivers couldn't be loaded any other way
[05:18] <hazrpg> because I've been using this keyboard for years, and was fine when I used it in my old core 2 duo machine
[05:18] <hazrpg> problems only started since I started using this i7 one
[05:19] <hazrpg> old motherboard fried, so had to get a new one, and it was still under warranty so I got a refund :) and got this one
[05:19] <hazrpg> the old motherboard was really expensive so I was able to get both a half a CPU and a new motherboard
[05:19] <hazrpg> (other half of the CPU I added on top)
[05:20] <hazrpg> only decided to load ubuntu on again the other night
[05:20] <hazrpg> :(
[05:20]  * hazrpg is a sad bunny
[05:21] <hazrpg> i'll have to invest in a new keyboard
[05:49] <Myrtti> moin
[05:52] <hazrpg> mornin
[05:53] <hazrpg> hmm, should i have ACPI 2.0 enabled or disabled...
[05:54] <MartijnVdS> enabled
[05:54] <MartijnVdS> PnP OS as well
[05:56] <hazrpg> yeah PnP OS is always the first thing I enabled
[05:57] <hazrpg> ACPI 2.0 is under power tho...
[05:57] <MartijnVdS> yeah  but Linux supports it, so turn it on :)
[05:57] <hazrpg> how bout win7?
[05:57] <hazrpg> since I dual-boot between thos
[05:57] <hazrpg> those*
[05:57] <MartijnVdS> it's good as well
[05:58]  * hazrpg thumbs up
[05:58] <MartijnVdS> XP doesn't I think
[06:00] <hazrpg> its fine, don't use that anymore (think its on one of the HDD's - but that was because it was an old HDD and i've slowly deleted most of the windows related files off it so that I can move them away and format it to ext3/4 at some point
[06:01] <hazrpg> found out the two white SATA ports are 6Gb/s ports
[06:01] <hazrpg> guessing ubuntu doesn't support that too well then?
[06:02] <hazrpg> ali1234: do you still want me to lsmod and dmesg with legacy off?
[06:02] <hazrpg> before I save and exit
[06:08] <hazrpg> any keyboard recommendations?
[06:09] <hazrpg> considering I haven't had to buy one for like 5 years now lol
[07:08] <AlanBell> hazrpg: good suggestion re openID plugin
[07:22] <hazrpg> AlanBell: :)
[07:24] <hazrpg> AlanBell: just thought it would be useful
[07:24]  * hazrpg really wish the caps lock key would be removed from modern keyboards :/
[07:29] <hazrpg> or at least re-purposed#
[07:30] <AlanBell> it is on the google laptop
[07:30] <AlanBell> and on the OLPC
[07:55] <MooDoo> hello all
[07:55] <TheOpenSourcerer> Morning.
[08:02] <danfish> hello
[08:03] <danfish> it seems the only way to update the bios on this samsung laptop is via windows 7 :(
[08:03] <MooDoo> danfish: always the case mate :S
[08:05] <danfish> MooDoo: :( as I spent the weekend do a full disk encrypt reinstall of 10.10, I ain't installing w7
[08:05] <MooDoo> danfish: wine?
[08:06] <danfish> MooDoo: bit early thanks ;)
[08:06] <MooDoo> lol
[08:07]  * AlanBell checks out the lunch menu http://www.hiltonlondonmet.com/hotel/minako
[08:07] <danfish> I'm not sure wine can be used for this.  There does seem to be dos executable, so maybe freedos will work
[08:15] <popey> yeah, that may work
[08:27] <TheOpenSourcerer> I used to have a script that would build a small Freedos ISO with the files I needed for BIOS updates. But hopefully in a few short years all PCs will have Linux built-in anyway :-)
[08:29] <daubers> orning
[08:29] <DJones> Morning all
[08:29] <TheOpenSourcerer> Awning daubers
[08:30] <daubers> So the age of Daviey is coming to a close then
[08:34] <DJones> daubers: Yep, certainly is
[08:41]  * daubers awaits for the mass protests in Gwibber Square, near Shotwell Corner
[08:44] <MooDoo> lol
[08:45] <DJones> daubers: Protests on stepping down to early, or to late :)
[08:50] <czajkowski> Aloha
[08:50] <MooDoo> morning czajkowski
[08:51] <daubers> o/
[08:54] <DJones> Any sign of BigCalm yet, or is still celebrating
[08:54] <MooDoo> DJones: celebrating?  did he do it?
[08:55] <AlanBell> MooDoo: http://twitter.com/#!/bigcalm/status/37257391665975296
[08:55] <DJones> MooDoo: 21:10 < czajkowski> Bigcalm popped the questions, his gf said yes!
[08:55] <czajkowski> MooDoo: he confirmed it on twitter last night
[08:55] <czajkowski> :d
[08:56] <MooDoo> czajkowski: yes he said he was going to do it :) woohoo, crazy fool ;)
[08:56] <MooDoo> DJones: he's a crazy fool :) pmsl ;)
[08:56] <DJones> MooDoo: Heh
[08:57] <MooDoo> DJones: he says being married for 4 years lol
[08:58] <DJones> MooDoo: 7 years for me, 8 years in June
[08:58] <daubers> At least it'll cut down his car insurance
[08:59] <MooDoo> lol
[08:59] <czajkowski> such a romantic bunch you lot are
[08:59]  * czajkowski wallops MooDoo DJones daubers
[08:59] <MooDoo> czajkowski: oi behave.....
[09:00] <MooDoo> czajkowski: we're not romantic because we've not met you yet...isn't it obvious :)
[09:00] <daubers> czajkowski: Well, it is a major benefit! Saved me ~£300 a year on mine!
[09:00] <DJones> Must admit, getting married has been the best thing to happen in my life :)
[09:00] <daubers> MooDoo: That doesn't necesserily work
[09:00] <MooDoo> daubers: shhhhh i'm creeping :)
[09:01] <daubers> DJones: It certainly ranks up there with being born in the first place
[09:01] <DJones> daubers: Good point
[09:01] <czajkowski> daubers: she wasnt on your insurance till you married her ?
[09:01] <daubers> czajkowski: She was, but being married reduced the premium
[09:01] <czajkowski> hah
[09:02] <daubers> czajkowski: Apparently married couples are statistically less likely to have an accident
[09:02] <daubers> load of rubbish IMHO, but saved me some dosh :)
[09:02] <daubers> Till I went and got a car with a bigger engine anyway
[09:02] <danfish> I got married 11 years ago and my wife still won't change her surname
[09:03] <AlanBell> danfish: keeping her options open
[09:03] <danfish> mind you, her first name is Tina, and my surname is Fish, so "Tina Fish"
[09:03] <czajkowski> daubers::)
[09:03] <daubers> Hah! If we'd have waited till the end ofthis year my missus wouldn't have been able to change her surname without major issues 'cause of the soliceters regulatory body or somesuch (so she said)
[09:03] <czajkowski> danfish: is she still unsure :p
[09:03] <danfish> her middle name is Michelle, so effectively her name would be "tin of shell fish"
[09:04] <AlanBell> sudo make me a tina fish sandwich
[09:04] <danfish> AlanBell: czajkowski :P
[09:04] <MooDoo> my gran was called cox and my surname is mellors, so she double barreled her surname.....doh!
[09:04] <czajkowski> MooDoo: onoly in your family!
[09:05] <MooDoo> czajkowski: i was just making a point of the funny name when you say them together lol
[09:05] <czajkowski> MooDoo: sure...
[09:05]  * czajkowski likes her surname
[09:06] <czajkowski> it's very unique and very me :)
[09:06] <czajkowski> literlaly, irc, twitter identi.ca etc
[09:06] <czajkowski> *literally
[09:06] <MooDoo> czajkowski: you do realize when we meet you're going to be called laura and if i ever try to say your surname it's going to be cz<tab>
[09:06] <MooDoo> ;)
[09:07]  * czajkowski frowns
[09:07] <MooDoo> czajkowski: i'm kiddingh
[09:08] <czajkowski> danfish: still on std conference duty ?
[09:09] <DJones> czajkowski: He gave up & went home ill yesterday
[09:10] <czajkowski> DJones: eh ?
[09:10] <DJones> czajkowski: He blamed his wife for giving him flu, went to work & then said he was going home ill
[09:11] <czajkowski> DJones: ahhhh...
[09:11] <czajkowski> DJones: he's also going to a conference the day we all meet up for rugby
[09:11] <DJones> czajkowski: Ah, I was thinking you meant he was at a conference this week
[09:12] <DJones> yesterday/today
[09:12] <czajkowski> nope :)
[09:12] <czajkowski> he does attend a lot of conferences
[09:14] <revo> hello
[09:14] <danfish> reports of my demise can be ignored - have upgraded my health status from 'At Death's door" to "Should pull through"
[09:14] <MooDoo> revo: hello
[09:14] <MooDoo> BIGCALM!!!!
[09:14] <revo> i have screen-saver off and power management set to never but it keeps turning off the monitor after 5 minutes, help!
[09:15] <revo> lucid 10.04
[09:15] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[09:15] <AlanBell> o/ bigcalm
[09:15] <danfish> czajkowski: I will still be attending the STD conference during the rugby meetup :(
[09:15] <AlanBell> danfish: you don't want to go and look at odd shaped balls then?
[09:16] <DJones> AlanBell: Thats a quick thinking comment
[09:16] <danfish> AlanBell: hah. Also I might not get the attendees goodie bag for this conference ;)
[09:17]  * DJones plays the wedding march for bigcalm ...   She ate it
[09:18] <MooDoo> bigcalm: don't worry you'll realise it goes downhill from now on ;)
[09:18] <bigcalm> Oi :P
[09:19] <czajkowski> MooDoo: shrup you pup
[09:19] <czajkowski> bigcalm: congrats and well done!
[09:19] <bigcalm> czajkowski: thank you :)
[09:19]  * bigcalm hugs czajkowski tight
[09:19] <czajkowski> bigcalm: so what part of the meal did you do it at
[09:19] <MooDoo> bigcalm: +1 :) you'll love it :)
[09:19] <bigcalm> After I asked, the 1st thing she said was "you crazy bugger"
[09:19] <DJones> bigcalm: A cousin got engaged on christmas day, she posted on twitter yesterday that she'd got her first ever "fiance valentines day card"
[09:20] <bigcalm> After wat seemed an age, she said yes :)
[09:20] <MooDoo> bigcalm: bended knee?
[09:20] <czajkowski> bigcalm: did you tell her you sounded the question on irc , she may think you're even more crazier!
[09:20] <bigcalm> czajkowski: no, I didn't actually
[09:20] <bigcalm> MooDoo: yep
[09:21] <MooDoo> bigcalm: rock on :)
[09:21] <czajkowski> bigcalm: smart
[09:21] <czajkowski> bigcalm: so when did you ask her
[09:21] <bigcalm> Heh
[09:21] <bigcalm> After we'd stuffed ourselves silly with curry
[09:22] <czajkowski> :D
[09:22] <bigcalm> She didn't want a desert or coffee, so thought "now or never"
[09:22] <MooDoo> awesome
[09:22] <bigcalm> Well, not quite "never", but...
[09:23] <bigcalm> Nice quiet local balti house
[09:23] <czajkowski> bigcalm: awwww
[09:23] <czajkowski> bigcalm: did you go down on one knee
[09:23] <czajkowski> :p
[09:24] <bigcalm> czajkowski: of course :)
[09:24] <czajkowski> :o
[09:24] <bigcalm> Hehe, just got an email from Hayley: "You should have heard the shrieks in this office, when I told the girls that you asked me to marry you!  They think it’s wonderful news."
[09:24] <MooDoo> bless :)
[09:25] <czajkowski> bigcalm: awww
[09:25] <czajkowski> bigcalm: we did wondered last night, and the tweet confirmed it
[09:27] <MooDoo> rats, no wonder i didn't see it, /me follows bigcalm
[09:28] <bigcalm> Hayley wants to tell her parents before saying anything on twitter or facebook. Which makes me feel a bit silly for saying anything.
[09:28] <bigcalm> Ah well, the responces on Facebook are mostly confused as they weren't privvy to the pre-conversation
[09:28] <MooDoo> bigcalm: s/silly/excited :)
[09:28] <bigcalm> Yes, I was/am. I wanted to shout it out
[09:29] <czajkowski> bigcalm: :)
[09:31] <czajkowski> http://yfrog.com/gysm6vnj:iphone  <------ sooo cute
[09:32]  * TheOpenSourcerer asked Mrs TheOpenSourcerer at the Savoy on News Years Eve in 1996/7
[09:33] <TheOpenSourcerer> Married since '98
[09:33] <bigcalm> czajkowski: awwwwwwww
[09:33] <czajkowski> aye :D
[09:34]  * AlanBell popped the question at the Hen and Chickens
[09:35] <AlanBell> funnily enough
[09:35]  * MooDoo popped it while packing for a family holiday :)
[09:35] <czajkowski> AlanBell: you really do worry me sometimes!
[09:35] <AlanBell> that was about 10 years before I developed Obsessive Chicken Disorder though
[09:37] <AlanBell> http://www.henandchicken.co.uk/
[09:39] <TheOpenSourcerer> That evening was rather pash. We had a stretched Limo from my Flat in Fulham - with Champagne on ice in the car. The Dinner was something like 12 courses and they had the Grenadier Guards playing at Midnight! Cost me a packet but hey - she's worth it.
[09:39] <TheOpenSourcerer> s/pash/posh
[09:39] <czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: you old softie
[09:40] <bigcalm> Just the 2 of you in a streched limmo?
[09:40] <TheOpenSourcerer> No, there was another couple too.
[09:40] <TheOpenSourcerer> PaRa77server41
[09:40] <TheOpenSourcerer> blast. Wrong Window.
[09:40] <TheOpenSourcerer> Ignore that everyone.
[09:40]  * AlanBell slaps TheOpenSourcerer
[09:41] <bigcalm> root a toot toot?
[09:41]  * AlanBell waits for the password file to update
[09:41] <screen-x> morning :)
[09:42] <bigcalm> Hi screen-x
[09:42] <screen-x> just read the scroll back, congratulations bigcalm :)
[09:43] <screen-x> \o/ marriage
[09:43] <bigcalm> Thank you :)
[09:43] <bigcalm> screen-x: I just read that as Peter Cook
[09:43] <MooDoo> bigcalm: so whens the ubuntu-uk stag do ;)
[09:43] <bigcalm> Oh crikey
[09:44]  * DJones also wonders if bigcalm has set a date yet?
[09:44] <bigcalm> I can't think beyond Wednesday yet
[09:44] <Joseph__> \join #liux-ha
[09:44] <Joseph__> \join #linux-ha
[09:44] <bigcalm> Joseph__: you need to use /
[09:44] <DJones> Joseph__: its /join
[09:44] <JamesTait> Happy Day-After-Valentine's-Day!
[09:44] <Joseph__> doh!
[09:45] <bigcalm> Aww
[09:47] <hazrpg> AlanBell: wow I did not know that (the OLPC keyboard)
[09:48] <TheOpenSourcerer> http://opensource.cbronline.com/news/uk-government-department-to-use-open-source-data-integration-150211
[09:48] <Myrtti> meh
[09:50] <czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: did you see http://siriusit.co.uk/blogs/12-feb-2011/open-business-smes-take-place-public-sector-table
[09:52] <TheOpenSourcerer> I did indeed czajkowski http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/news/government-opens-contracts-small-business
[09:52] <mungojerry> theopensourcerer i found the article impossible to read!
[09:52] <mungojerry> the cbronline article
[09:54] <AlanBell> yeah, helps if you have seen Talend to understand that one
[09:55] <hazrpg> heh, liking the soppy msgs above ^^
[09:55] <hazrpg> grats btw bigcalm :)
[09:55] <mungojerry> it's written like an el reg article
[09:56] <czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: aye another summit next week as well
[09:57]  * hazrpg has a feeling that most of the people here have known each other for a while
[09:57] <MooDoo> hazrpg: too long ;)
[09:57] <hazrpg> lol
[10:00] <hazrpg> see I've been jumping in and out of here since 7.10/8.04, but well I was never really that talkative
[10:01] <bigcalm> hazrpg: thank you :)
[10:01] <MooDoo> hazrpg: you lurker you :)
[10:02] <hazrpg> MooDoo: well I meant until recently :P
[10:03] <MooDoo> lol :)
[10:03] <hazrpg> heh, I'm a wimp sometimes... everyone already seemed to know each other, soooo feeling like the new kid just felt wrong somehow lol
[10:04] <MooDoo> hazrpg: well don't let that ever stop you, we're a friendly bunch as you've worked out
[10:04] <hazrpg> oh wow, brobostigon has a blog post dating 2009 about me :o!
[10:04] <bigcalm> Bloody connection. What is VM playing at today?
[10:05] <hazrpg> MooDoo: yeah I worked that out from day one :P, I was just more fearful because I didn't want to seem like a complete newbie
[10:06] <hazrpg> still bites how cumbria seems to have a lack of decent LUG
[10:06] <hazrpg> bigcalm: what's up?
[10:06] <dwatkins> bigcalm: ironically, this page doesn't appear to load correctly: https://national.virginmedia.com/service-announcements/status
[10:06] <MooDoo> hazrpg: make one
[10:06] <bigcalm> My connection is up and down today
[10:07] <hazrpg> MooDoo: there is one, but as far as I can tell... its not active :/
[10:07] <bigcalm> dwatkins: heh
[10:07] <MooDoo> hazrpg: well there you go then, email the list and see if anyone wants to meet up for a friendly discussing ;) maybe at a pub :)
[10:08] <hazrpg> heh personally I think we should get like a big ol' ubuntu gathering of sorts somewhere
[10:08] <czajkowski> hazrpg: can do, but people then say wher X place is too far from them
[10:09] <hazrpg> czajkowski: tell me about it :/
[10:09] <czajkowski> nothing to stop anyone just syaing I'm here lets meet up and do something even if it is go for a beer or have a talk
[10:09] <TheOpenSourcerer> did someone say beer?
[10:10] <selinuxium> I think someone did...
[10:10] <MooDoo> yay beer.....
[10:10] <dwatkins> Is anyone else living in or near Edinburgh who frequents this channel? Just curious in case we could meet.
[10:10] <czajkowski> March 19th :D
[10:11] <hazrpg> dwatkins: near... ish... lol I have a car!
[10:11] <hazrpg> its 2 hrs away from edinburgh... but have car will travel :)
[10:12] <MooDoo> nottingham for me
[10:13] <popey> congrats bigcalm !
[10:13] <bigcalm> popey: thank you :)
[10:14] <MooDoo> bigcalm: babies next :p
[10:14] <bigcalm> MooDoo: nope :)
[10:14] <selinuxium> bigcalm, What did I miss?>
[10:14] <bigcalm> MooDoo: cats & dogs
[10:14] <dwatkins> hazrpg: cool, what general area?
[10:14] <MooDoo> hehe
[10:14] <bigcalm> selinuxium: I asked my GF to marry me last night
[10:14] <selinuxium> Yay!!!
[10:14] <czajkowski> and she said yes :)
[10:14] <bigcalm> Hehe
[10:14] <dwatkins> bigcalm: woohoo! what kind of ring did you go for?
[10:15]  * dwatkins was looking into a Portal companion cube box recently for such things in the future
[10:15] <hazrpg> czajkowski: I once helped organise some ska music here in our local rock giggery type place (usually they have unknowns), since everyone complained there wasn't any decent ska bands coming here... and well I pitched in some money along with a few others, I did the DJing and so did a few others... and well it wasn't for profit, we just wanted to at least break even so we could arrange more... and for the first few it was fine... but then it just went dow
[10:15] <AlanBell> czajkowski: speaking of beer, how many tickets am I getting?
[10:15] <selinuxium> Congrats
[10:15] <selinuxium> AlanBell, all this talk of beer...
[10:15] <selinuxium> what is happening I don't know about??? :)
[10:15] <hazrpg> dwatkins: Carlisle
[10:15] <dwatkins> My girlfriend has seen this, and pointed out if I want her to ever say yes to The Question, I need to do something similarly awesome: http://risu-san.deviantart.com/art/Companion-Cube-Ring-Box-113116455
[10:15] <czajkowski> AlanBell: hah I mentioned it to him and he looked at me as if I had 2 heads
[10:16]  * AlanBell can confirm that czajkowski looks very dissimilar to Zapod Beeblebrox
[10:16] <bigcalm> Hehe
[10:16] <czajkowski> ;p
[10:17] <bigcalm> dwatkins: It was a Harribo ring
[10:17] <hazrpg> dwatkins: see that could mean either she'd want it to be a companion cube, or be something else she's into though... but I might be wrong, also that is pretty awesome
[10:17] <dwatkins> bigcalm: nice :)
[10:17] <dwatkins> hazrpg: the companion cube is a recurring theme with us - I made her one for her birthday last year
[10:18] <hazrpg> dwatkins: aww, what'd ya make it out of?
[10:19] <dwatkins> hazrpg: 2mm thick card, mostly, just getting pictures to show off :D
[10:19]  * AlanBell throws hat into the ring https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/2011Election
[10:19] <hazrpg> :P
[10:19] <czajkowski> selinuxium: march 19th isn't long away!!
[10:19] <andylockran> howdy all
[10:19] <mungojerry> bigcalm , u did the haribo ring thing too?
[10:19] <andylockran> czajkowski: March 19th should be brilliant
[10:19] <andylockran> can't see the greens getting a result though
[10:19] <bigcalm> mungojerry: we'll go ring shopping at the weekend maybe :)
[10:20] <mungojerry> i wonder if u can get paperweights made which contain items of your choice
[10:20] <andylockran> mungojerry: just use the items direct
[10:20] <mungojerry> i wanted to embed a haribo ring in one
[10:20] <bigcalm> mungojerry: it would melt
[10:20] <andylockran> mungojerry: on second thoughts, that wouldn't make a good paperweight on it's own.
[10:20] <mungojerry> :(
[10:20] <czajkowski> andylockran: I know :(
[10:21] <czajkowski> I;m going to have to drink a lot
[10:21] <andylockran> czajkowski: who else do you have at home?
[10:21] <czajkowski> andylockran: eh ?
[10:21] <andylockran> at the aviva this tournament - who else do Ireland host?
[10:21] <andylockran> France, England + Wales?
[10:21] <dwatkins> hazrpg: http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i272/dominic_watkins/companion_cube1.jpg and http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i272/dominic_watkins/companion_cube2.jpg :D
[10:22] <czajkowski> andylockran: oh we got france last week, england next month.   not sure
[10:22] <andylockran> aye - thinking it about it I've just realised we only play 5 games, hence might have only 2 there.
[10:24] <hazrpg> dwatkins: that's awesome dude :)
[10:24] <dwatkins> thanks hazrpg :) took me quite a while to make, you'll never guess what she made me at the same time, though
[10:27] <DJones> mungojerry: bigcalm I wonder whether the craft resin mentioned in this http://www.helium.com/items/1425920-how-to-make-paperweights would work for the haribo ring paperweight idea?
[10:27]  * MooDoo is waiting for someone to propose by showing the other half a minecraft created ring ;)
[10:28] <BigRedS> I'm pretty sure proposal-on-minecraft has bindun already...
[10:28] <bigcalm> popey wanted me to do so
[10:28] <popey> :D
[10:29] <bigcalm> My GF isn't a geek though :P
[10:29] <AlanBell> bigcalm: hope you let him down gently
[10:29] <popey> haha
[10:29] <mungojerry> djones, i notice that it's an exothermic reaction, although this might be sufficient http://shpangle.blogspot.com/2010/10/haribo-jelly-sweet-engagement-ring.html
[10:29] <bigcalm> AlanBell: haha
[10:29] <dwatkins> http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i272/dominic_watkins/stargate.jpg - my girlfriend is a geek *proud grin*
[10:29] <MooDoo> my wife hates sci-fi :(
[10:30] <mungojerry> moodoo, my wife watches it, and i don;t :P
[10:31] <mungojerry> they seem like soap operas in space to me
[10:31] <MooDoo> lol
[10:31] <dwatkins> most of them are...
[10:31] <hazrpg> dwatkins: what'd she make you :P?
[10:31] <dwatkins> hazrpg: see my previous line :D
[10:31]  * mungojerry is noticing that google results are getting worse. they are are fake SEO links
[10:32]  * BigRedS implores everyone to use a terminal font that makes ,s look obviously different to .s
[10:32] <SuperMatt> heh
[10:32] <czajkowski> .s ,s
[10:32] <SuperMatt> I use droid sans mono right now
[10:32] <BigRedS> yeah. ,com isn't the same as .com apparently
[10:32] <dwatkins> bigcalm: someone sent me a link on twitter yesterday with a comma instead of a dot, it was a tinified one, too
[10:32] <SuperMatt> though it's not very good at differentiating 0O 1l
[10:33] <dwatkins> oops, sorry, BigRedS
[10:33] <bigcalm> ?
[10:33] <bigcalm> Hehe
[10:33] <dwatkins> tab-complete fail
[10:33] <andylockran> is it possible to change the framebuffer resolution without rebooting?
[10:33] <BigRedS> haha
[10:33] <dwatkins> andylockran: I think xrandr can do that
[10:34] <hazrpg> dwatkins: yeah, sorry was reading what I missed as I was typing that :P
[10:34] <dwatkins> hazrpg: no worries :)
[10:34] <andylockran> dwatkins: I'm in text-based console, ttys with no X
[10:34] <hazrpg> dwatkins: haha, that is mega win :D
[10:34]  * MooDoo is using irssi
[10:34] <SuperMatt> irssi wins
[10:35] <andylockran> any change you could provide a command?
[10:35] <Baikonur> irssi is nice
[10:35] <ali1234> i converted the ets-teletext pcf font into a ttf, it makes a nice terminal font: http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/random/teletext2.ttf
[10:35] <ali1234> no unicode support though
[10:35] <hazrpg> ali1234: wow... that font looks like... minecraft!
[10:36] <SuperMatt> why don't most people put a dot in the middle of, or a line through the zero?
[10:36] <SuperMatt> it makes life so much easier
[10:36] <dwatkins> andylockran: oh right
[10:36] <ali1234> well theres only so many ways you can make a font in 6x10 pixels
[10:36] <hazrpg> AlanBell: when's the election and how does it get processed exactly?
[10:36] <dwatkins> ali1234: awesome, teletext was a really nice display mode
[10:37] <hazrpg> ali1234: very true
[10:37] <dwatkins> I do wonder if fonts that small can be copyrighted
[10:37] <s-fox> Hello.
[10:37] <ali1234> i dunno, but if they can, that one is probably copyright phillips semiconductor
[10:38] <MooDoo> s-fox: hello there
[10:38] <ali1234> because it is lifted from the saa5243 teletext character generator chip
[10:38] <s-fox> Hell MooDoo :) How are you ?
[10:38] <ali1234> however the pcf version is packaged on ubuntu, that's where i got it from
[10:40] <MooDoo> s-fox: i'm very well thank you :)  and what about your good self
[10:40] <s-fox> Well I don't know much about good self but I am okay. Just updated my ubuntu wiki. Looked a little out of date :)
[10:41] <s-fox> MooDoo,   https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Silver_Fox
[10:41] <s-fox> :)
[10:41] <MooDoo> s-fox: i was already there, but thanks ;)
[10:41] <s-fox> lol, okay :)
[10:43] <MooDoo> s-fox: looks good :D
[10:43] <mungojerry> who's running natty on real hardware?
[10:43]  * MooDoo shakes head
[10:44] <DJones> s-fox: Is your pin on the "Where are we" on the ubuntu-uk site a bit misplaced?
[10:45] <s-fox> DJones,  Possibly - I am not sure it was even pinned correctly in the first place ;)
[10:45] <s-fox> Got the link so I can have a look? I don't have it to hand :(
[10:45] <DJones> s-fox: Its shows you as being in New Jersey USA :)
[10:45] <DJones> http://ubuntu-uk.org/where-are-we/
[10:46] <s-fox> Well, I had to be different ;)
[10:46] <bigcalm> It's live now?
[10:46] <DJones> Heh
[10:46] <DJones> bigcalm: Yep
[10:46] <s-fox> But yes,  it is a little off ;)
[10:47] <s-fox> Also the description is huge, needs a <br/>
[10:47] <s-fox> :)
[10:47] <s-fox> DJones, Anyway to move it ?
[10:47] <DJones> s-fox: I'm not sure, best person to ask will be AlanBell
[10:47] <mungojerry> running natty on a 5yr old pentium D 2.80ghz machine with intel graphics...feels faster than previous releases
[10:48] <hazrpg> s-fox: might have to poke an admin/mod to do that
[10:48]  * hazrpg pokes AlanBell
[10:49] <s-fox> Thanks MooDoo :)
[10:50] <MooDoo> s-fox: no worries....makes me want to fix mine now lol
[10:50] <MooDoo> s-fox: mine is VERY bare
[10:50] <s-fox> Link?
[10:50] <MooDoo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PaulMellors    it's not even worth a look to be honest lol
[10:50] <s-fox> Too late
[10:51] <MooDoo> s-fox: see what i mean :)
[10:51] <s-fox> Loaded nice and fast though
[10:51] <MooDoo> coz there isn't anything on it :) lol
[10:52] <s-fox> lol
[10:52] <MooDoo> s-fox: might actually start doing stuff with ubuntu one day ;)
[10:52]  * hazrpg thinks he should maybe make a wiki...
[10:53] <MooDoo> hazrpg: go for it, it's easy enough :)
[10:53] <hazrpg> anyone know when the next series of the podcast starts?
[10:53] <popey> yes
[10:53] <s-fox> MooDoo,  I have a special relationship with Ubuntu. Basically if it packs up it knows I will distro hop
[10:54] <MooDoo> s-fox: so you'll be using ubuntu for a while then?
[10:54] <MooDoo> ;)
[10:54] <MooDoo> ah you mean your install on your machine :)
[10:54] <hazrpg> popey: when is it, or is it a secret?
[10:54] <MooDoo> hazrpg: perhaps it's the ID way of doing it, it's done when it's done :D
[10:55] <hazrpg> :P
[10:55] <s-fox> Well I have done the circuit, but I keepp coming back to it. Rather odd. That said I am running Debian Squeeze on my laptop ;)
[10:55] <s-fox> @ MooDoo
[10:55] <popey> hazrpg: "soon"
[10:55] <hazrpg> ^^
[10:55] <hazrpg> guessing no one has made a logo for it yet?
[10:56] <MooDoo> s-fox: i'm running squeeze on my debian ssh vm :)
[10:56] <MooDoo> hazrpg: yes they have
[10:56] <hazrpg> shoot
[10:56] <MooDoo> http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/
[10:56] <hazrpg> MooDoo: wait, isn't that the same logo but a different colour?
[10:56] <MooDoo> hazrpg: maybe but it's still a logo
[10:57] <hazrpg> I recall AlanBell saying they wanted a new one?
[10:57] <hazrpg> been playing the idea of making one since I read him talking about it
[10:57] <MooDoo> ah
[10:57] <MooDoo> s-fox: do you like squeeze?
[10:58]  * screen-x squeezes MooDoo
[10:58] <MooDoo> screen-x: squeeze, not a squeeze, but thanks it was nice :)
[10:59] <popey> we are in the process of making a new logo
[10:59] <s-fox> Sure, though to be honest I haven't noticed much in the way of change MooDoo . Still stable as anything :)
[10:59] <hazrpg> popey: ah, ok fair enough
[10:59] <davmor2> morning all
[10:59]  * davmor2 prods czajkowski to get that out of the way
[10:59] <s-fox> MooDoo,  I am however looking forward to gimp 2.7
[10:59] <MooDoo> s-fox: yup, was thinking of trying it on my laptop, but apps are just too far behind for my liking
[10:59]  * DJones expects that the new logo will be built in minecraft
[11:00]  * czajkowski kicks davmor2 oi less of it
[11:00] <dwatkins> Voxels for teh win!
[11:00] <hazrpg> DJones: I was tempted xD
[11:00] <MooDoo> s-fox: isn't that the one with the one screen ala photoshop
[11:00] <s-fox> MooDoo, Yes :)
[11:00] <davmor2> czajkowski: you started it yesterday :P
[11:00] <AlanBell> Choo choo
[11:00] <s-fox> Here comes the train ;)
[11:00] <MooDoo> s-fox: yeah i'm looking forward to that
[11:00] <hazrpg> AlanBell: ^^
[11:00] <MooDoo> davmor2: alright mentor :)
[11:01] <AlanBell> I am looking forward to lunch
[11:01] <davmor2> MooDoo: I wouldn't stand for s-fox calling you 2.7 of a gimp  you either are or aren't ;)
[11:02] <s-fox> MooDoo,  My laptop usually only runs 3 applications: gedit, gFTP and iceweasel
[11:02] <MooDoo> davmor2: i'm sure i can cope, i'm big enough
[11:02] <s-fox> I have no need of latest and greatest ;)
[11:02] <MooDoo> s-fox: result then :)
[11:03] <s-fox> Pretty much, that is probably why I am happy with it :)
[11:05] <andylockran> ewww - our xml+xsl transforms with IE9 are not good
[11:06] <andylockran> works with IE9 in compat mode, but fails first time in native mode.. on refresh works fine
[11:06] <bigcalm> Why does IE insist on being different like this?
[11:06] <andylockran> anyone any tips on howto debug this?
[11:07] <hazrpg> andylockran: isn't ie9 still in beta?
[11:07] <diplo> RC now
[11:07] <MooDoo> hazrpg: rc was released
[11:07] <hazrpg> bigcalm: personally I don't see why microsoft just give up on the browser market - they fail so bad
[11:07] <andylockran> I'm testing against the RC
[11:08] <hazrpg> diplo, MooDoo: no way! :o
[11:08] <bigcalm> They still have a large market share
[11:08] <diplo> Got lot's of dev myself for IE9 :/
[11:08]  * hazrpg wonders how IE9 fairs with acid test
[11:08] <andylockran> 95/100
[11:08] <andylockran> on  acid3
[11:08] <hazrpg> bigcalm: large doesn't mean good though, its only large because it comes pre-packaged with the O/S
[11:09] <hazrpg> andylockran: ooo, they're finally getting there!
[11:09] <diplo> I was looking at stats to some of our customer sites yesterday, it's kinda scary how old browsers people use.
[11:09] <hazrpg> andylockran: however, I wouldn't be surprised if they're just aiming to pass the test and nothing else
[11:09] <diplo> Refusing to support IE6 now and anything older than FF3
[11:09] <diplo> IE7 is giving me enough of a headache
[11:10] <hazrpg> diplo: I do the same, I always place this on my website: http://www.ie6nomore.com/
[11:10] <hazrpg> on websites I make*
[11:11] <diplo> I'm thinking of doing wat Facebook does, and a little JS dropdown that fades away, saying your browser is now % years old and really needs updating to make your OS secure.
[11:12] <diplo> Windows update or use one of these alternative browsers.
[11:13] <hazrpg> wow didn't know fb did that
[11:14] <hazrpg> but then again I haven't used an old browser in years
[11:14] <diplo> yer, just installed a vm on this box with a clean XP install and upgraded IE6 to IE7
[11:14] <diplo> thought i'd see how FB displayed in ie7 and that came up first of all
[11:15] <hazrpg> diplo: I just use, http://browsershots.org/ most of the time
[11:15] <diplo> Doesn't help me, ours is a shop that integrates with our ERP system, so need to see more in depth
[11:16] <diplo> It breaks on the more complex parts
[11:17] <hazrpg> diplo: ah
[11:18] <hazrpg> so not so much on the visuals, more on the javascript, etc
[11:18] <diplo> yeah and partly visuals
[11:19] <hazrpg> I hate having to code in exceptions to my finely tuned code just so it works on old browsers :/
[11:19] <diplo> yep same here, frustrating the hell out of me
[11:19] <hazrpg> trust me, know the feeling
[11:19] <diplo> Also displays differently on same version of FF on windows and linux
[11:19] <diplo> We both develop under ubuntu, but I've found I'm having to test in it all now
[11:20] <hazrpg> yeah, its something to do with how things are parsed on different platforms
[11:21] <hazrpg> e.g. as I noticed when I was coding Java for uni a few years back
[11:21] <hazrpg> something I worked on work perfectly well in linux, but in windows it popped up with millions of different errors
[11:22] <hazrpg> which dropped my mark by about 10% :(
[11:23] <hazrpg> found out, it was something to do with how windows and linux processes "return carriage"
[11:24] <hazrpg> I had to go through all the code in windows and replace all the returns by deleting them and then adding them back in again :/
[11:24] <diplo> heh
[11:24]  * dwatkins tears up his visa debit card which has been cloned by fraudsters
[11:24] <hazrpg> can imagine how long that took for over 300 lines of code :/
[11:24] <diplo> :(
[11:24] <andylockran> don't suppose that MS devs have an IRC channel on freenode for IE issues?
[11:24] <hazrpg> dwatkins: :o!
[11:24] <screen-x> dwatkins:  >:(
[11:24] <andylockran> dwatkins: sorry to hear that!
[11:25] <hazrpg> dwatkins: what happened!?
[11:25] <dwatkins> cheers folks, it appears the fraudsters took the really dumb move of trying to register on netflix with my card about half an hour before I woke up this morning, which was particularly stupid, and my bank [HSBC] noted this and called me :)
[11:26] <hazrpg> dwatkins: yeah I do like that about HSBC
[11:26]  * dwatkins has two halves of a credit card on his desk
[11:26] <mungojerry> vista hilarity of the day: logged on as admin, i'm told that i need admin rights to install windows updates and should log on as admin
[11:26] <dwatkins> ironically, I was just thinking the other day that I need a new card as this one had a crack in it, and I was saying yesterday how I need to make sure I don't spend any more money over the next couple months
[11:26] <hazrpg> first day I was in the Philippines, and tried to take money out I got a call on my mobile from HSBC making sure it was me that was doing the transaction
[11:27] <Myrtti> I dislike how their internet banking can be so sucky
[11:27] <dwatkins> hazrpg: that's pretty good - I had my previous card cloned when I travelled to Malta - turns out it was used in Athens the same day I got cash out in Reading
[11:27] <mungojerry> hazrpg, unfortunately tesco block my CC for buying breakfast in sainsbury's or shopping with tesco internet delivery
[11:27] <dwatkins> Myrtti: yeah, although it generally works very well
[11:27] <dwatkins> mungojerry: why do they block it?
[11:28] <andylockran> evidently some guy emails my flatmates work y'day with his entire credit card details as he failed to process the payment using their online form
[11:28] <screen-x> Myrtti: online banking does have a massive capacity to be sucky..
[11:28] <mungojerry> dwatkins, i dunno. it should be consistent with my behaviour, and the internet food delivery is sents to my house
[11:28] <screen-x> Myrtti: my personal fav is that I can only download 3 months or N transactions at a time, very annoying.
[11:28] <hazrpg> mungojerry: really?
[11:28] <mungojerry> i now avoid using my card in the self service tills
[11:29] <mungojerry> i've been blocked 2 or 3 times now
[11:29] <Myrtti> screen-x: my personal favourite is that making transactions to europe is possible only during opening hours
[11:29] <hazrpg> mungojerry: saying that, I find each time I use my DC on a site that I wouldn't normally I end up with a phone call or a message in my Internet Banking
[11:29] <mungojerry> thats more civilised
[11:29] <mungojerry> i just get blocked and have to call a 0845 number (not part of my mobile minutes)
[11:29] <hazrpg> dwatkins: wow, that's just odd... clearly the guy can really move!
[11:30] <mungojerry> a friend of mine had her card nicked and 900 quid was spent in 30 minutes - how?
[11:30] <screen-x> Myrtti: really? that  really does suck, lets take real world constraints and apply them to the internets..
[11:30] <mungojerry> is chip and pin that broken?
[11:30] <popey> i get phone calls from my bank whenever i buy something from someone I haven't bought from before
[11:31] <popey> like paying my VAT bill yesterday
[11:31] <dwatkins> popey: every time? wow
[11:31] <Myrtti> screen-x: they must have a button somewhere that turns that on and off, literally, as we tried to send money to Germany on 1st of Jan but couldn't because of New Years AND banking holiday on the 3rd
[11:31] <screen-x> so when copying popeys credit cards... buy from apple :D
[11:31] <mungojerry> lol
[11:31] <popey> 51
[11:31] <Myrtti> which sucked, because the money needed to be in Germany by the 7th, and the banks say it may take up to four days
[11:32] <screen-x> Myrtti: annoyances :(
[11:32] <Myrtti> so we ended up emptying my bank account for the transaction, because Finnish banks don't have such limitations
[11:32]  * dwatkins wonders how many companies he needs to update with his new details
[11:33] <hazrpg> Myrtti: yeah sending money to anywhere via bank transfers outside of your local branch does take a minimum of 3-5 work days, sometimes more depending on where your sending it and when
[11:33] <screen-x> dwatkins: n+3, where n is the ones you can remember
[11:33] <dwatkins> screen-x: most likely, yeah
[11:33] <hazrpg> dwatkins: heh, see that's one reason why I never updated my address on mine!
[11:33] <hazrpg> dwatkins: my address is still registered to my dad's house
[11:34]  * mungojerry wonders why he lives in a LUG blackspot :(
[11:34] <hazrpg> mungojerry: join the club :(
[11:34] <MooDoo> mungojerry: start your own :)
[11:34] <BigRedS> 'cause you haven't started one yet :)
[11:35] <hazrpg> mungojerry: also... been meaning to say this since I saw the name... "In the summer time, when the weather is hot..."
[11:35] <mungojerry> i should change my name, but it's too late now
[11:35]  * screen-x whistles
[11:35] <hazrpg> too late why?
[11:35] <mungojerry> that song is catchy but don't read the lyrics - it's not v nice
[11:35] <mungojerry> generally about womanising and drink driving
[11:35] <popey> mungojerry: where do you live?
[11:35] <mungojerry> n london
[11:36] <mungojerry> work in e london
[11:36] <screen-x> surely london cant be a lug blackspot..
[11:36] <popey> GLLUG
[11:36] <hazrpg> mungojerry: dude, there must be lots of people in london part of a LUG surely!
[11:36] <mungojerry> the centre of gravity seems to be weighted towards SW - surrey
[11:36] <screen-x> SLUG \o/
[11:37] <hazrpg> <== I live in Cumbria, that's much worse
[11:37]  * screen-x enjoyed surrey lug
[11:37] <mungojerry> the lonix lug seems basically to be a beer drinking fest and w london based
[11:37] <mungojerry> surrey lug looks civilised and nice
[11:37] <BigRedS> gllug is quite beer-based, it's mostly also london.pm
[11:37] <mungojerry> hertfordshire lug is stevenage- too far
[11:38] <BigRedS> I'm pretty sure there are other linuxish user groups around there, too, though. Perl, php, python etc
[11:38] <hazrpg> #cumbria_lug
[11:38] <hazrpg> might help to add /join right?
[11:39] <screen-x> uh oh, a4 page dividied in two, strenghts on one side weakneses on the other..
[11:39] <DJones> hazrpg: /join needs to be on the left, not the right :)
[11:39] <hazrpg> see... ever time I go in there, there's either me and chanserv... although seems to have another guy in there for once!
[11:39] <screen-x> "gets distracted by irc"
[11:40] <hazrpg> wow, the main wiki for CLUG was updated in 2008!
[11:40] <hazrpg> *sigh*
[11:40] <hazrpg> DJones: wise-guy :P
[11:40] <MooDoo> hazrpg: now it the time for haz-lug :)
[11:40] <MooDoo> do it do it
[11:41] <hazrpg> haha
[11:41] <hazrpg> who would join haz-lug though :P
[11:41] <MooDoo> there is a channel already ready for you #hazlug :)
[11:42] <hazrpg> xD
[11:42] <MooDoo> lol
[11:43] <hazrpg> can't believe the CLUG is just a glorified wiki :P
[11:48]  * hazrpg wonders how hard it would be to conduct a survey to see how many users in Carlisle use linux of some sort
[11:48]  * hazrpg feels a project coming on
[11:48] <MooDoo> fliers :)
[11:49] <hazrpg> I'm sure enough people are sick of fliers in cumbria lol
[11:49] <hazrpg> or even carlisle
[11:49] <hazrpg> I get like a minimum of 10 a day
[11:50] <hazrpg> I might make an app for my android and go round town asking people :p
[11:50] <hazrpg> might have to check with the council to make sure I can do that though...
[11:51] <screen-x> the council have to approve new android apps? ;-)
[11:51] <hazrpg> haha, no
[11:51] <hazrpg> I meant for asking people in town if they used linux
[11:52] <hazrpg> heh, I could even burn off a good couple of dozen ubuntu cd's too ^^
[11:53] <hazrpg> I mean I have 500+ blank discs at the moment
[11:53] <MooDoo> hazrpg: or speak to ship-it nicely :)
[11:54] <hazrpg> that too :)
[11:54] <hazrpg> would be a good way to unload some of my business cards too ^^
[11:55] <screen-x> what do you do, hazrpg?
[11:56] <hazrpg> at the moment, final year of my degree @ uni (or rather my only year at uni) - did a HND before this
[11:56] <hazrpg> and currently doing a freelance project for a hotel booking system
[11:57] <hazrpg> mainly specialise in html/css/php that sort of thing
[11:57] <hazrpg> I'm in no way a designer though, I like doing it - but I just don't have the patience for it half the time
[11:58] <hazrpg> for me a design could take months before I'm fully happy with it
[11:58] <screen-x> hazrpg: I can understand that..
[11:58] <hazrpg> and even then, clients just want something simple
[11:59] <hazrpg> I'm a jack of all trades when it comes to programming
[11:59] <hazrpg> I know many languages, just not great at all
[12:00] <hazrpg> php I enjoy the most, mainly because you don't need to worry about how its going to look - html/css/js will sort that later on
[12:00] <hazrpg> with C++ I still can't get out of the habit of thinking "man its going to be impossible to make a GUI"
[12:01] <hazrpg> I can make an OpenGL window pop up, with whatever dimensions I want... but after that... I sort of just give up and toss it aside lol
[12:02] <screen-x> I've never tried using programming with opengl.
[12:02] <screen-x> should try it one day
[12:03] <screen-x> talking of which, hows the zoomify thing coming on, AlanBell?
[12:03] <screen-x> ah overview
[12:04] <hazrpg> I keep meaning to mess with OpenGL more...
[12:05] <hazrpg> I have an SVN loaded up on my server for two projects, that have so far gone nowhere
[12:09] <hazrpg> https://hazrpg.co.uk:8443/svn/lgp-project/ and https://hazrpg.co.uk:8443/svn/lgp-catchem/
[12:10] <hazrpg> lgp-project - will be the base game engine (hopefully multi-platform, linux/windows/psp/dc/ds)
[12:10] <hazrpg> and lgp-catchem will be sort of the test project for the engine
[12:11] <hazrpg> if you want to see what I have so far I have a read-only account... test:pass
[12:11] <screen-x> sounds ambitious
[12:11] <hazrpg> lgp-project has mainly resources and test files so far
[12:12] <hazrpg> lgp btw stands for "Lizards: Game Programming"
[12:13] <hazrpg> catchem isn't really a proper codename, I just thought at the time there aren't any real open-sourced "gotta catch 'em all" type games out there, so I wanted to make my own
[12:13] <hazrpg> screen-x: a lot of my plans usually are lol
[12:14] <hazrpg> but they always get done before I even begin by someone else :/
[12:15] <hazrpg> already noticed google and someone else is working on a browser plugin (or possibly native support) for 3D in the browser
[12:15] <hazrpg> I have an SVN called lgp-browser, which I wanted to start up too - but quickly gave up when I found it was already being done
[12:16] <hazrpg> btw, the group can be found @ http://groups.google.com/group/lizards-game-programming
[12:20] <directhex> there are gui toolkits for opengl, btw
[12:21] <gord> there are about a billion of them ;) they all mostly suck
[12:22] <directhex> solution: gui in gtk, 3d in gtkglarea gtk widget!
[12:23] <X3N> Clutter FTW
[12:23] <hazrpg> directhex: yeah I know ;)
[12:24] <hazrpg> in the google group I made, I made massive lists of one's we could use
[12:24] <hazrpg> and other projects with similar goals
[12:25] <gord> X3N, clutter is pretty cool, but its not a gui toolkit
[12:26] <hazrpg> right hang on, seems google is pulling support for files and pages from google groups
[12:26] <hazrpg> just going to download all the stuff I have before they're wiped
[12:26] <hazrpg> google seems to be pulling a lot of projects recently :/
[12:26] <hazrpg> wave is another example of a projecting being pulled
[12:26] <hazrpg> well not so much pulled, but the site is though
[12:27] <hazrpg> I thought wave was fantastic... but clearly they haven't met their targets or expectations towards it
[12:30] <X3N> gord: clutter + mx
[12:31] <X3N> or you can use gtk widgets inside clutter too
[12:32] <czajkowski> *grin* http://nokiaplane.com/
[12:32] <hazrpg> for anyone interested, here's the list I made back in 2009 when I came up with this project
[12:32] <hazrpg> http://www.hazrpg.co.uk/myprojects/lgp/references.html
[12:33] <gord> X3N, using gtk widgets inside of clutter does not an opengl gui toolkit make ;) i wouldn't call wx "good" either, like i said, clutter is pretty cool, but as a gui toolkit its not great
[12:35] <X3N> mx
[12:38] <hazrpg> I've heard of wx, don't think I know of clutter though
[12:38] <hazrpg> btw, that wasn't the only list I made... I also had this: http://www.hazrpg.co.uk/myprojects/lgp/programming-tutorials-forums.html
[12:38] <hazrpg> and this: http://www.hazrpg.co.uk/myprojects/lgp/development-tools-utilities-applications.html
[12:39] <hazrpg> and this was the browser idea that both me and roge were going to work towards: http://www.hazrpg.co.uk/myprojects/lgp/a-starting-point-perhaps.html
[12:39] <X3N> I was saying mx not wx anyway
[12:40] <hazrpg> oh heh lol
[12:40] <hazrpg> czajkowski: hehe ^^
[12:40] <screen-x> czajkowski: that joke took me so long to get!
[12:41] <hazrpg> screen-x: hehe
[12:42] <hazrpg> "When you see it, you'll ... bricks!"
[12:42]  * czajkowski pats screen-x on the noggin
[12:42] <screen-x> http://nokiaplanf.com/
[12:42] <screen-x> unfotunately g is search spam
[12:42] <mungojerry> i just saw that
[12:42] <mungojerry> boo
[12:42] <screen-x> ooh dont go to that link
[12:43] <directhex> don't mouseover f's image
[12:43] <screen-x> it looks like a reasonable image, then changes when your not suspecting
[12:43] <mungojerry> lol
[12:43] <mungojerry> i'll trust ur judgement
[12:43] <dwatkins> is it actually fraudulent or just dirty?
[12:43] <screen-x> nfsw
[12:43] <popey> ffs
[12:43] <dwatkins> ok thanks screen-x
[12:43] <MooDoo> dwatkins: dirty as i've just found out at work
[12:43] <popey> please be more careful screen-x
[12:44]  * dwatkins considers using an ssh tunnel
[12:44] <hazrpg> lol
[12:44] <screen-x> sorry all, I didnt notice till after posting :(
[12:44] <MooDoo> gave my boss a start :) lol
[12:44] <popey> moving on
[12:44] <hazrpg> http://www.penisland.net/ <== this looks dirtier than it actually is, my tutor showed me this one years ago (sfw)
[12:44] <mungojerry> i visited the page b4 u and didn't notice
[12:45] <dwatkins> pen is land?
[12:45] <mungojerry> island
[12:45] <dwatkins> ah yes, so I see now :)
[12:45] <mungojerry> i still wouldn't want it on a carrier bag
[12:45] <dwatkins> haha: "Pen Island is the magical land of glorious writing utensils" - uncyclopedia
[12:46] <popey> seriously
[12:46] <popey> what is wrong with you people
[12:46] <hazrpg> she showed it to us as an example for HCI - but she showed us the URL first before mentioning anything about it to see what the first thing would come to mind - and was showing how words chosen for a domain should be picked carefully
[12:47] <jpds> popey: All that Minecraft has mined away at their brains.
[12:47] <popey> clearly
[12:47] <hazrpg> popey: I did say it was harmless, its just Pen Island
[12:47]  * mungojerry has never played minecraft
[12:47] <mungojerry> probably for the best.
[12:47] <jpds> mungojerry: Likewise.
[12:47] <hazrpg> minecraft is harmless ^^
[12:48]  * mungojerry has a wife child and doggy to feed, and wants to stay that way
[12:48] <mungojerry> i remember installing sim city 3000 and losing a week of my life
[12:49] <mungojerry> wolfenstein enemy territory was more like a month , while single and unemployed
[12:49] <popey> hazrpg: it's not the site content, it's the purile nature of the conversations in here at the moment, "Oh look! *snigger* it says penis!".
[12:49] <dwatkins> I used to play Homeworld lot.
[12:49] <dwatkins> *a lot
[12:49] <mungojerry> sounds like a shop
[12:49] <popey> i used to play wolfenstein every wednesday and sunday with the lugradio posse :)
[12:50] <mungojerry> i liked the rail gun level
[12:50] <popey> FIRE THE RAILGUN!
[12:50] <mungojerry> what a fantastic game
[12:50] <popey> s/THE/ZE/
[12:50] <mungojerry> fire in ze hole
[12:50] <dwatkins> oh my, Homeworld 2 is available for the Mac
[12:50] <hazrpg> popey: ah, apologies
[12:50] <dwatkins> It's been nice knowing you all... ;)
[12:50] <gord> oops, forgot to go to lunch and kept working, silly me
[12:51] <mungojerry> hmm 12:51
[12:51] <dwatkins> silly gordface
[12:51] <hazrpg> ah crap I forgot to go to sleep...
[12:51] <mungojerry> looking forward to going to arsenal vs barcelona tomorrow
[12:51] <hazrpg> should really do that at some point before my body decides to crash n burn
[12:52] <MooDoo> pah to football.
[12:52]  * mungojerry notices the price of ARM shares :-|
[12:53] <hazrpg> mungojerry: that was random, you listening to the podcast?
[12:54] <mungojerry> nah i noticed they are v high, i sold a bunch last week to fund my root canal. and now they've increased 25% since then
[12:54] <mungojerry> sold my ARM for a tooth
[12:55] <screen-x> mungojerry: going down today though
[12:55] <hazrpg> ba-dum-dum-tish :P
[12:55] <mungojerry> i originally purchased during the dotcom boom, believing them to be a great company. (orignally wanted to purchase when shares were 6p in acorn but didn't know how)
[12:55] <davmor2> mungojerry: you still got a leg though right
[12:55] <mungojerry> yeah,
[12:55] <mungojerry> got a foot in the door still
[12:55] <mungojerry> prices have only now returned to dotcom levels
[12:55] <hazrpg> mungojerry: just out of interest how do you get your shares? Been meaning to buy shares for a while, but doesn't know how (other than the fact that you need to go through a broker)
[12:56] <mungojerry> u in UK?
[12:56] <directhex> stand in the city and shout "buy! buy!" a lot
[12:56] <directhex> someone will hand you shares eventually
[12:56] <hazrpg> mungojerry: yeah ;)
[12:56] <mungojerry> my bank has an online dealing facility
[12:56] <mungojerry> i just login to the website and click buy.
[12:56] <hazrpg> hsbc?
[12:56] <mungojerry> hfx
[12:56] <mungojerry> but many are the same
[12:57] <mungojerry> i got a bit addicted/greedy 10 yrs ago and learned the error of my ways
[12:57] <mungojerry> i only own 2 shares now
[12:57] <mungojerry> ARM and hornby :P
[12:58]  * mungojerry is a bit of an airfix fan
[12:58] <hazrpg> :P
[12:58] <mungojerry> best way of unwinding that i know of
[13:00] <hazrpg> hehe, they are fun
[13:00] <hazrpg> one of my friend does warhammer painting
[13:07] <penguin42> mungojerry: So now you run an ARM controlled rail road?
[13:19] <mungojerry> penguin42, good idea..
[13:26]  * dwatkins laughs at the macrumours forum and a message combining the indication the user has no idea what they are doing yet have jailbroken their iphone
[13:27] <dwatkins> These sorts of people scare me, I bet they didn't change the default password either.
[13:27] <mungojerry> at one point, wasn't there an app that allowed jailbreak by visiting a web page?
[13:27] <dwatkins> mungojerry: yes
[13:28] <mungojerry> maybe his mate showed him the page :P
[13:28] <mungojerry> do this, it's cool. huh? ok
[13:28] <dwatkins> Yes, I imagine that's quite likely.
[13:28] <mungojerry> why do u need to jailbreak iphones?
[13:29] <dwatkins> mungojerry: You don't need to jailbreak the iphone, but there is certain functionality that is inaccessible without doing so, such as setting a custom SMS message tone.
[13:29] <mungojerry> wow
[13:30] <mungojerry> i've spent my life invalidating warranties, but my android phone seems to provide all the required functionality
[13:30] <mungojerry> without the need to root
[13:31] <dwatkins> Yeah, as did mine when I last looked.
[13:34] <BigRedS> I'm still having fun getting an unbroken android onto my Galaxy...
[13:35] <dwatkins> how so, BigRedS?
[13:35] <mungojerry> i find stock android a bit ugly, but HTC do a really good job with sense
[13:35] <BigRedS> Samsung do a horrific one with whatever it is they've got
[13:35] <dwatkins> mungojerry: I agree, I'm not too concerned with reinstalling my Desire HD with cyanogenmod since the stock install is fine
[13:35] <dwatkins> oh my, BigRedS
[13:36] <screen-x> bug 385632
[13:36] <mungojerry> the only thing is retrieving apk files that i've installed on the machine. i have an old beebplayer app installed which works over 3g
[13:37] <mungojerry> but i wanted to keep it safe in case it accidentally got updated
[13:37] <screen-x> permanent mounts..
[13:39]  * mungojerry wonders if gwibber will get the update it needs for natty
[13:40] <gord> what update?
[13:41] <mungojerry> apparently v3 of gwibber
[13:41] <mungojerry> to fix a lot of ugs making it unusable
[13:43] <gord> gwibber 3.0 doesn't even exist yet
[13:43] <mungojerry> i thought it was scheduled for 11.04 release
[13:44] <davmor2> mungojerry: the version in Natty is already much better than mavericks and is 2.91.2 it will become 3.0 eventually
[13:45]  * davmor2 can't help but hear the intro to summertime everytime he reads mungojerry
[13:45] <mungojerry> unfortunately it still doesn't really work - i was using the daily builds.  i hope 2.91.3 to 3 is a big step
[13:46] <mungojerry> i've now switched to hotot which is blindingly quick in terms of resources
[13:48] <davmor2> mungojerry: what are you expecting it to do that it doesn't?
[13:48] <davmor2> mungojerry: and have you written a bug report for it
[13:48] <X3N> nokiaplans.com
[13:48] <mungojerry> bug 306497
[13:48] <mungojerry> it kills resources
[13:48] <mungojerry> amongst others
[13:49]  * popey sighs
[13:49] <gord> just attempted to use my phone as a mouse, its not my day today
[13:49] <mungojerry> takes 100% on a good machine. makes mungojerry sad that new users will have their machine sucked dry by one app
[13:49] <dogmatic69> lol
[13:50] <dogmatic69> my phone works pretty good as a mouse
[13:50] <davmor2> mungojerry: that's a really old bug, not a new one.  gwibber for me is using less that Firefox or compiz
[13:50] <mungojerry> really?
[13:50] <mungojerry> wow
[13:50] <dogmatic69> http://www.remotedroid.net/
[13:51] <mungojerry> i only ditched in 2 months ago
[13:51] <DJones> mungojerry: I've found gwibber in maverick to very stable & not have any problens, I've certainly not noticed any memory problems
[13:52]  * mungojerry goes to try it on his natty box
[13:53] <dwatkins> dogmatic69: have you tested flash video in fullscreen on that same laptop recently, just curious as the player has been updated to version 10.2
[13:53] <dogmatic69> dwatkins: its pants :/
[13:54] <dogmatic69> will update tonight and try
[13:54] <dwatkins> dogmatic69: bah - what model was the laptop again? I have the outputs you provvided but not the CPU speed etc.
[13:54] <dwatkins> thanks dogmatic69 - /msg me if you don't get a reply, please
[13:54] <dogmatic69> its a packardbell something..
[13:54] <dogmatic69> cant remember now
[13:54] <dogmatic69> easynote
[13:55] <dwatkins> haha, I like the instructions for Windows/Mac being identical: http://pastebin.com/yRFTUa2v :)
[13:55] <dogmatic69> possibly easynote 8, but there is virtually no info on it (physically) and searching serial numbers etc brings nothing.
[13:55] <dogmatic69> lol
[13:55] <dwatkins> dogmatic69: no worries, if you can pastebin the output of the command "cat /proc/cpuinfo" that should suffice
[13:56] <dogmatic69> ill be home around 8ish
[13:56] <dwatkins> not sure I'll be in front of this window, but I remain online even when I'm not
[13:56] <dogmatic69> damn work stuff interferes with my time.
[13:57] <mungojerry> djones, davmor2 do you shut your machines down at night?
[13:58] <dogmatic69> dwatkins: if you like remotedroid, you should try androidVNC
[13:58] <mungojerry> or leave gwibber running
[13:58] <DJones> mungojerry: Yes I do
[13:58] <davmor2> I shut down
[13:58] <mungojerry> my main problem was the 500mb process usage would build in 24 hrs
[13:58] <dwatkins> dogmatic69: nice :)
[13:59] <mungojerry> i'm running a few tests.
[13:59] <dogmatic69> ive used it, bit painfull viewing 2x 23" monitors on a phone :D
[13:59] <davmor2> mungojerry: if you don't then you need to report the memory leak as an issue, which is not the case with the bug you showed
[13:59] <brobostigon> afternoonings everyone.
[14:00] <MooDoo> afternoon
[14:00] <brobostigon> afternoonings MooDoo
[14:00] <DJones> mungojerry: Up until 2 weeks ago, I was running it on a machine with only 512Mb ram & didn't notice any memory problems, the machine would be running for about 12 hours max
[14:01] <mungojerry> do u have facebook too, djones
[14:01] <DJones> yes
[14:01] <DJones> facebook/twitter/identi.ca
[14:01] <mungojerry> i notice the facebook bug is marked fixed now, which may have conitrbuted to the memory leak
[14:02] <mungojerry> certainly hotot is 10x faster to navigate and change views, not sure what gwibber is up to there
[14:02] <DJones> mungojerry: Does hotot work with facebook/twitter & identi.ca
[14:03] <mungojerry> not facebook, but neither was gwibber at the time (for the whole of 2010) due to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gwibber/+bug/614742
[14:06] <mungojerry> here's hoping anyway. i like the UI design and would prefer to use the gwib if it doesn't hog resources
[14:06] <DJones> That must have been a bit of an odd bug, I never noticed that problem
[14:06] <mungojerry> gonna run overnight on a clean install then report a bug if i suffer from the memory leak again
[14:07] <mungojerry> djones, it was really bad, not all facebook updates came in, then stopped for 3 days or so regularly
[14:07] <mungojerry> due to fb throttling on their side. kevin vandine did a write up on it somewhere
[14:08] <DJones> Very wierd, I had problems with gwibber pre-Maverick, but only with twitter accounts, fb didn't seem to have a problem
[14:08] <mungojerry> does it still greyout and become unresponsive when you click refresh though? does for me
[14:09] <DJones> No, its worked perfectly, i think once since maverick came out i've had a twitter problem
[14:17] <hamitron> back at last! no phone line for 43 hours
[14:17] <hamitron> :/
[14:17] <DJones> Welcome back then
[14:18] <hamitron> :)
[14:18] <gord> how on earth did you survive?
[14:18] <hamitron> I hardly did :/
[14:18] <DJones> hamitron: Was it no phone line, or no broadband
[14:18] <hamitron> both
[14:18] <hamitron> :(
[14:18] <DJones> Nasty
[14:18] <hamitron> I had to walk 6 miles to a phone box
[14:18] <hamitron> haha
[14:20] <hamitron> on the plus side, the sound on my phone is actually really good now
[14:20] <DJones> Just like ye olden days, one phone per village, normally at the "big manor house"
[14:20] <hamitron> well
[14:21] <hamitron> I walked to 1 village, and that phone box had no phone in it
[14:21] <hamitron> so had to go onto the nex
[14:21] <hamitron> next
[14:21] <hamitron> :/
[14:21] <gord> ha, bzr has bzr vislualize and visualise - it doesn't even matter because everyone just uses bzr vis<tab> anyway (which now, stops on bzr visluali)
[14:21] <hamitron> didn't realise they had removed some
[14:22] <hamitron> kinda missed the phone ringing with sales people :))
[14:23] <DJones> hamitron: At least you knew where to find a phone box, in this day & age of almost every house having a fixed line, so many people having a mobile phone, I don't even know where the nearest public phone box is to me
[14:23] <hamitron> yes DJones :(
[14:24] <hamitron> I couldn't get a signal at the time
[14:24] <hamitron> but guess it is the "no signal" that makes me note where phones are
[14:25] <hamitron> once I had got to the village 6 miles away, I do get a signal there
[14:25] <hamitron> but no way i was paying to phone a 0800 number by that stage
[14:27]  * dwatkins wonders if there will one day be a 'free from a mobile' number like 0800 but for mobiles
[14:27] <hamitron> it would be useful, considering how many only have mobiles now
[14:28] <hamitron> but there again, I know a few people who refuse to pay for a landline, then expect to have DSL internet, so steal others wifi... no respect for them
[14:28] <dwatkins> that's just insane
[14:29] <hamitron> yeh
[14:29] <dwatkins> do they expect the world on a plate?
[14:29] <hamitron> yes
[14:29] <hamitron> ;/
[14:29] <hamitron> lazy bums
[14:29] <dwatkins> I don't mind laziness so much, so long as the same people don't expect to be just given stuff they're not entitled to
[14:30] <mungojerry> i had a windows user colleague who boasted that he didn't need antivirus on his win machine because has was careful. then i reminded him that last week he was boasting of leeching his neighbours wifi, and as such he was on an unsecure network
[14:30] <dwatkins> haha, oops
[14:30] <hamitron> :))
[14:30] <dwatkins> Next time I get a server on my wifi I'm going to implement the upside-down-ternet :D
[14:30] <hamitron> my sister complains I put her on a different network to the business comps here, as she "knows" how to protect herself
[14:31] <hamitron> :/
[14:31] <dwatkins> a different network?
[14:31] <hamitron> yeh
[14:31] <hamitron> router with 3 network interfaces
[14:33] <dwatkins> can she not switch to the same network as the others if necessary?
[14:33] <hamitron> erm, I could I suppose
[14:33] <mungojerry> hamitron, does that make u big brother then :P
[14:33] <hamitron> yeh
[14:33] <hamitron> :)
[14:34] <dwatkins> Just wondering what possible solutions there are.
[14:34] <gord> popey, <Sarvatt> new natty nvidia drivers in ppa:ubuntu-x-swat/x-updates
[14:34] <mungojerry> just tell her you are protecting her from the business types
[14:34]  * dwatkins is little brother, but still the sysadmin of the family
[14:34] <mungojerry> i've seen some real grot on those machines
[14:34] <hamitron> well, I've found a lot of security solutions don't work well with some of the accounting software
[14:35] <hamitron> also, the security I have on the secure network blocks facebook and stuff
[14:35] <DJones> hamitron: Thats nothing to do with accounting software, they just don't work well
[14:35] <dwatkins> I sold a PC for someone once that I got a call back about with 2 hours, they'd riddled it with malware and it had slowed to a crawl.
[14:35] <hamitron> it was blocking the software that pays peoples wages!
[14:36] <mungojerry> dwatkins, PC world sell malware too
[14:36] <dwatkins> mungojerry: they do?
[14:36] <mungojerry> they used to
[14:36] <hamitron> I reckon putting idiots on a seperate network and ensuring people get paid on time is better than waiting for problems
[14:36] <mungojerry> vista i think it was called
[14:36] <mungojerry> :P
[14:37]  * dwatkins notes the example on Google Reader shows a document from the Official Google Blog entitles: Pirates vs Ninjas - who would win?
[14:37] <hamitron> ninjas!
[14:37] <dwatkins> mungojerry: Vista is useable when it has the servicepack installed
[14:37] <mungojerry> which SP
[14:37] <mungojerry> the win7 sp?
[14:38] <dwatkins> mungojerry: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/bb738089
[14:38] <hamitron> I don't consider win7 that much better tbh :/
[14:38] <dwatkins> I use windows 7 at work, it's fine.
[14:38] <hamitron> "fine"
[14:38] <hamitron> ;/
[14:38] <dwatkins> I'd prefer a UNIX, but I don't have a lot of choice yet.
[14:38] <mungojerry> dwatkins, on a clean vista sp1, this laptop in front of me is shocking (and others i've seen)
[14:38] <hamitron> not exactly brilliant... fine
[14:39] <davmor2> dwatkins: you seem to of added too many words to that sentence,  - when it has the servicepack installed, and it becomes far more honest ;)
[14:39] <dwatkins> My only main gripe with Win7 is that when the machine is sleeped it doesn't automatically hibernate when the battery gets low like my Mac does. Most Linuxes I've used can barely cope with hibernation, let alone the rest :-/
[14:39] <mungojerry> windows indexer kills machine, and thrashes disk constantly. above that i routinely experience sporadic bugs requiring reboot
[14:40] <dwatkins> mungojerry: you can turn that off
[14:40] <mungojerry> i got handed the machine because wireless, ethernet and usb had stopped working. (worked on livecd though)
[14:40] <dwatkins> I think they disabled it with a servicepack, in fact
[14:40] <hamitron> is there a Win7 (for legacy PC)?
[14:41] <directhex> not really
[14:41] <dwatkins> Win7 works fine on older hardware.
[14:41] <mungojerry> i only have to use windows very occasionally and i always end up tearing my hair out because of the stress
[14:42] <hamitron> older hardware?
[14:42] <hamitron> ;/
[14:42] <directhex> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windows-7/get/system-requirements.aspx
[14:42]  * mungojerry also discovered the free win7 upgrade for the poor vista suckers expired
[14:42] <mungojerry> by "free" they mean £30
[14:43] <hamitron> 1Gb ram is not really old is it? :/
[14:43] <dwatkins> you can't really expect them to support running the OS on a 486 with 32 MB of RAM, though.
[14:43] <hamitron> 256Mb would be nice
[14:43] <hamitron> 128Mb would be nicer
[14:44] <hamitron> tbh, I wouldn't mind if I felt I got something worthwhile for the memory use
[14:44] <mungojerry> we're talking debian here :P
[14:44]  * MooDoo uses technet so has a couple of free licenses....which means nothing really
[14:44]  * mungojerry runs debian ARM on his linksys slug
[14:45]  * hamitron wants a slug
[14:45] <hamitron> or a fat one
[14:45] <hamitron> :)
[14:45] <popey> heh, I just bought 8GB for my laptop and 8GB for the kitchen iMac :D
[14:45] <hamitron> I'm starting to find 2Gb in my main rig, not really enough
[14:46] <dwatkins> I need 8 GB in my laptop due to running virtual machines.
[14:46] <hamitron> can get by with 2Gb only just, but organising stuff properly
[14:46] <hamitron> I've actually removed vmware
[14:46] <hamitron> :)
[14:46]  * mungojerry uses slug for backups
[14:47] <mungojerry> after right-clocking it
[14:47] <andylockran> I've been using ubuntu with no X all week
[14:48] <andylockran> it's quite enjoyable.
[14:48] <hamitron> I've actually found a NAS device fine as a server
[14:48] <hamitron> saving power
[14:48] <hamitron> :)
[14:48] <hamitron> then old server just turn on for backups
[14:48] <andylockran> all I'd like to do is resize the resolution on the framebuffer - reckon it'll just be vga= option in the boot config
[14:49] <mungojerry> what's the best indexing app on ubuntu? tracker didnt' used to work v nicely a yaer or so ago.
[14:49] <andylockran> mungojerry: what you intending on using it for ?
[14:49] <dwatkins> andylockran: yeah, that's the one, I've played with it in the past, purely with trial-and-error
[14:49] <mungojerry> i ended up giving up..but i really need one. pref with docky/zeitgeist support
[14:49] <mungojerry> andylockran, search all files in home dir containing the word mathematica
[14:50] <andylockran> cat * | grep mathematica
[14:50] <andylockran> yeah, not a nice solution
[14:50] <mungojerry> yeah..on a oneoff basis thats what i do...but i have large home dir
[14:51] <jpds> andylockran: Certainly, you should of just done: grep mathematica *
[14:51] <mungojerry> actually grep -R mathematica *
[14:54] <mungojerry> then if u think it might have been a tomboy note or email instead, you are screwed
[14:54] <mungojerry> still can't find the doc :P
[14:55] <mungojerry> that's because grep X in ods file doesn't give u anything :(
[14:58] <BigRedS> your mail isn't plain text? what do you do with your mail?
[14:59] <mungojerry> the actual spreadsheet in a .ods file...try grepping for terms found in a sheet - u won't find them
[15:01] <mungojerry> gonna try tracker since the options don't seem to be great (beagle is dead)
[15:21] <popey> thanks gord!
[15:24] <s-fox> Afternoon all
[15:24] <MooDoo> s-fox: welcome back :) we missed you ;)
[15:24] <s-fox> Haha thanks MooDoo ,  I was still here... just went quiet ;)
[15:24] <MooDoo> s-fox: :)
[15:24]  * s-fox hands MooDoo some tea
[15:25] <MooDoo> s-fox: lovely thanks :)  english breakfast?
[15:25] <s-fox> Sorry no, I do not drink english tea MooDoo
[15:25] <MooDoo> s-fox: what kind out of interest?
[15:26] <s-fox> MooDoo,  Mariage Frères
[15:26] <MooDoo> s-fox: bless you ;)
[15:26] <s-fox> Laugh out loud. MooDoo  - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariage_Fr%C3%A8res
[15:27] <MooDoo> s-fox: are you into tea?
[15:27] <s-fox> I like tea, if that is the same thing?
[15:28] <MooDoo> s-fox: yes that's what i meant :P
[15:28]  * mungojerry just received an important email but it was for someone else :S feel bad when that happens. the intended recipient will never get it
[15:28] <s-fox> MooDoo,  I like tea
[15:29] <screen-x> mungojerry: could reply indicating the error
[15:29] <s-fox> +1 screen-x
[15:29] <andylockran> gord/popey will a dist-upgrade pull in the nvidia drivers if that repo is added, or do they need to be specified as a package name?
[15:29] <mungojerry> screen-x true but i receive quite a lot..i think google labs has a special gmail plugin to click a canned response easily
[15:30]  * mungojerry shoul dhave considered the implications of choosing his gmail address
[15:30] <MooDoo> tea ftw!
[15:31] <popey> andylockran: no, you need to install nvidia-current
[15:35] <MooDoo> join #debian-uk
[15:35] <MooDoo> oops :)
[15:35] <jpds> MooDoo: Wrong IRC server.
[15:35] <MooDoo> jpds: just being nosey to be honest :D
[15:35] <davmor2> jpds: No just needs to put a / in front
[15:35]  * jpds watches MooDoo hone in on czajkowski's channels.
[15:36] <andylockran> popey: ta
[15:36]  * czajkowski peers at MooDoo
[15:36] <MooDoo> jpds: no i'm keeping well away from czajkowski thank you very much :)
[15:37] <gord> andylockran, don't upgrade from that ppa, you get new x stuff there, just pick the package you want
[15:52] <gord> popey, andylockran horses need to be held on the nvidia xserver - some people saying it doesn't work (haven't tested myself yet because i actually like getting things done)
[15:53] <popey> what are you using then?
[15:53] <popey> at the moment i cant use unity at all
[15:54] <gord> i never upgraded my xorg :) learnt about them upgrading the xserver at the platform sprint so i stopped accepting xserver updates pretty much all together
[15:54] <gord> i got burnt by this stuff last cycle, didn't want it again
[15:56] <mungojerry> popey did you put natty on your main desktop?
[15:57] <popey> yes
[15:57] <mungojerry> wow
[15:57] <popey> i have more than one computer though
[15:57] <popey> so its not a disaster, just annoying that I've not been able to test unity at all for 2 weeks or so
[15:58] <gord> yeah it *really* sucks, we have lost a lot  of testers
[15:58] <mungojerry> ubuntu servers must be filling up with crash reports, i don't know whether i should file them all
[15:58] <popey> seems it might have been wise to publicise that this was going to happen
[15:58] <popey> i know people said that x was going to update
[15:59] <popey> but i dont recall a single mail/announcement saying nvidia wouldn't work with it
[15:59] <daubers> Still seems to work on my nvidia laptop..... should it not?
[15:59] <mungojerry> i'm on intel but am receiving weird screen corruption
[15:59] <mungojerry> when using gnome-terminal
[15:59] <mungojerry> it's strange
[15:59] <gord> yup, honestly as long as the nvidia driver wasn't working they should of not allowed xorg to upgrade for those that have nvidia-current installed or something
[16:00] <daubers> if xorgDriver == "nv": do_Burn_In_Hell(); ?
[16:02] <popey> daubers: it wont if you have updated xorg
[16:02] <daubers> I've been upgrading using aptitude, does that stop that specific bit of breakage?
[16:02] <popey> what version of xorg do you have installed
[16:03] <daubers> 1:7.6~3ubuntu4
[16:03] <daubers> according to aptitude anyway
[16:03]  * mungojerry longs for the day of smooth rollbacks
[16:04] <popey> daubers: what version of nvidia-current do you have installed?
[16:04] <daubers> 260.19.29-0ubuntu1
[16:05] <daubers> There is a copy of xorg in the update queue, but aptitude safe-upgrade doesn't seem to bother installing it. It just sits there
[16:06] <popey> heh
[16:06] <mungojerry> daubers, you must have sentient-apt installed :P
[16:06] <Azelphur> haha, giffgaffs voicemail service :D
[16:06] <Azelphur> you enter your pin code and the guy says "Champion!"
[16:07] <hamitron> I still not got mine activated
[16:07] <hamitron> :/
[16:07] <Azelphur> hamitron: I'm fully switched to them
[16:07] <daubers> Been burned by running partial updates before, always fallen back on aptitude while on an alpha
[16:07] <hamitron> Azelphur: no contract?
[16:08] <Azelphur> hamitron: I'm just doing the £10 goodybag every month
[16:08] <hamitron> cool
[16:08] <Azelphur> I switched my mum to them too
[16:08] <hamitron> i just assumed you had a contract to get a cheaper phone
[16:08] <AlanBell> o/
[16:08] <Azelphur> nah, I buy all my phones outright, it usually works out cheaper in the long run and gives me the freedom to choose which provider I want
[16:09] <hamitron> yeh
[16:09] <mungojerry> azelphur, my contract is £15pm
[16:09] <hamitron> it works out cheaper for me, but that is only because I never use it
[16:09] <Azelphur> hamitron: to get a DZ on contract is like £30/mo for 24 months, or £720. My DZ cost me £315, + 24 x £10 for the mobile service comes to £555, so way cheaper :)
[16:09] <hamitron> if I actually used "free" mins, wouldn't be so bad
[16:10] <gord> when buying a phone, the "phone" part comes secondary to what i want ;)
[16:10] <mungojerry> over the span of the 24 months, it will cost me the same as buying outright
[16:10] <Azelphur> hehe
[16:10] <gord> its like if i got a computer that was tied to an isp, would be insane
[16:10] <Azelphur> gord: exactly
[16:10] <penguin42> gord: I put in bug 636418 saying jockey and updates should interlock for exactly that
[16:10] <hamitron> I was tempted with a free ps3 + phone
[16:10] <hamitron> :/
[16:10] <hamitron> but resisted so far
[16:11] <AlanBell> s-fox: I will remove your pin
[16:11] <mungojerry> hamitron, you don't use 3g data then?
[16:11] <gord> i think i want that playstation phone... we shall see
[16:11] <s-fox> AlanBell,  Can we just move it?
[16:11] <hamitron> mungojerry: I've only topped up £35 in 13 years
[16:11] <s-fox> If I give you correct lat and long ?
[16:11] <mungojerry> i don't use my 300 mins and texts but i use 3g a lot..
[16:12] <hamitron> I use internet on my phone, but use my DSL over bluetooth
[16:12] <daubers> Current annyoying Unity niggle - I can't actually scroll to the bottom of the "Applications" window majigger
[16:12] <Azelphur> me too
[16:12] <hamitron> if I got a new phone, would use wifi
[16:12] <popey> daubers: grab hold of it and drag it up?
[16:13] <popey> or are we not talking about the docky thing on the left?
[16:13] <hamitron> I don't even get a good enough signal to make a voice call on my phone at home, so doubt the internet would be worth it
[16:13] <daubers> Not the docky thing, the window that pops up with all the applications in that's no longer nautilus
[16:13] <popey> ah, not seen that yet :(
[16:14] <mungojerry> daubers, the overlay thing ? works VERY slowly
[16:14] <daubers> I'd be really pleased with it, if a little window didn't pop up every few minutes telling me "something" had crashed but doesn't tell me what.
[16:14] <mungojerry> but i could scroll
[16:14] <hamitron> is this 11.04?
[16:15] <mungojerry> yep
[16:15] <daubers> The dock running away when I push a window near it still amuses me greatly though :)
[16:15] <mungojerry> took me a while to discover that u have to move the mouse to the top left to get the dock back...thats horrible
[16:16] <hamitron> "come get me on the screen 2 screens to your left?" ;/
[16:16] <mungojerry> intuitively you expect moving mouse to the left side would bring it
[16:16] <gord> daubers, there is a bug in nux that makes scrolling hugely expensive, don't worry, it'll get fixed as soon as i get round to looking at a few merge requests (should be this week)
[16:16] <mungojerry> they have an unbelievable amount of functionality and bugs to fix
[16:16] <daubers> gord: \o/
[16:18] <ball> What's a nux?
[16:18] <gord> and yeah i hate apport now "Something has crashed, wanna report it?! it might of been days ago but hey, i'm just gonna tell you now"
[16:18] <gord> nux is the opengl toolkit we use in unity
[16:19] <ball> gord: Thanks
[16:21] <daubers> I'm going to have to bake masses of cake for oggcamp this year
[16:22] <screen-x> cake :)
[16:22]  * BigRedS is more determined to get to oggcamp this year
[16:22] <popey> mmm oggcamp
[16:22] <daubers> Hopefully it'll be within commuting distance this year
[16:22] <bigcalm> popey: what month are we possibly looking at?
[16:23]  * BigRedS suggests London. Again.
[16:23] <screen-x> bigcalm: are you going to block out the whole month?
[16:24] <bigcalm> screen-x: possibly, until a date is confirmed
[16:24]  * daubers bets it'll be during the week he's on a boat in norfolk
[16:24] <popey> heh
[16:24] <popey> dunno yet
[16:24]  * popey pokes czajkowski
[16:25] <screen-x> daubers: messing about in boats is awesome, could even involve cake :)
[16:25] <daubers> screen-x: That it could!
[16:25] <bigcalm> Damn it
[16:25] <bigcalm> I want cake now
[16:25] <bigcalm> Damn this diet
[16:25]  * czajkowski prods popey
[16:26] <bigcalm> Maybe a cuppa tea will cheer me up
[16:26] <gord> oh i'm sure i can find out what day its on, just need to get my calendar to find the next time i'm away with work, its normally then ;)
[16:26] <daubers> bigcalm: Milk and 2 please
[16:26] <DJones> bigcalm: Thats not the pre-wedding diet already is it?
[16:26] <daubers> bigcalm: As a suggestion, Thorpe Park is good fun as a tag do destination
[16:26] <bigcalm> DJones: I've been losing weight for a couple of months now
[16:26] <daubers> s/tag/stag
[16:27]  * bigcalm shakes his head in amusement
[16:27] <daubers> bigcalm: "WFM :)
[16:27] <daubers> Grr
[16:27] <daubers> !wfm
[16:28]  * screen-x passes bigcalm a walnut
[16:28] <bigcalm> ?
[16:28]  * bigcalm breaks it with a sledgehammer
[16:29] <screen-x> only food I had accessible
[16:29] <bigcalm> Ah, most kind :)
[16:29] <bigcalm> There's a banana infront of me, but I've already had one today
[16:29] <directhex> http://gburt.blogspot.com/2011/02/banshee-supporting-gnome-on-ubuntu.html
[16:30] <czajkowski> bigcalm: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vWm47yPLGc
[16:30] <bigcalm> czajkowski: that's silly :)
[16:34] <hamitron> directhex: doesn't that reflect badly on Canonical?
[16:34] <directhex> hamitron, less badly than if they patched the affiliate code
[16:35] <hamitron> suppose, so the amazon store will be disabled?
[16:35] <AlanBell> hazrpg: the election details are in Daviey's email to the list, it uses CIVS which is a very clever online vote system
[16:36] <AlanBell> s-fox: no, the coordinates are not exposed and if they were I would have to edit the lat and long as numbers
[16:36] <AlanBell> I can edit descriptions, but not positions easily
[16:37] <s-fox> Okay, no worries. :)
[16:37] <s-fox> Thanks anyway
[16:39]  * Laney tried to raise the Amazon issue at UDS
[16:42] <jpds> Laney: Deforestation?
[16:43] <Laney> only Canonical trees allowed here
[16:43] <hamitron> sounds like selling tickets to a gig for charity, and the venue claiming most of the money ;)
[16:47] <directhex> hamitron, i guess the extension is shipping but off by default
[16:47] <hamitron> time for tea, o/
[16:54]  * DJones wonders whether he should have said to the person kneeling down in front of the file server changing backup tapes that a dog had just wandered into the office and was stood staring at them
[16:55] <DJones> ...Before they turned round to see the dogs face about 12inches from their own & screamed
[16:56] <jpds> DJones: In the server room, noone can here you scream.
[16:56] <jpds> hear*
[16:57] <DJones> Our server is in the kitchen
[16:58] <DJones> You probably don't let dogs into the server room either
[17:17] <brobostigon> afternoonings everyone.
[17:18] <BigRedS> g'morning brobostigon
[17:19] <brobostigon> helo BigRedS
[17:29] <daubers> jpds: In the server room, no-one can hear _anything_
[17:29] <jpds> daubers: Actually, you can hear the fans.
[17:29] <daubers> UNLESS YOU SHOUT REALLY LOUDLY TO GET OVER THE GENERAL WHITE NOISE FRMO THE SERVERS AND THE BEEPING OF THE FAILING RAIDS
[17:32] <SuperMatt> ah, the beeping of the failing raids
[17:32] <SuperMatt> possibly one of the most common noises here...
[17:33] <daubers> SuperMatt: Most common noise in any server room I'm working in
[17:54] <hamitron> !version
[18:19] <ujjain> can somebody make this a proper english sentence?
[18:19] <ujjain> ¨she has an aunt who can house her in¨
[18:20] <AlanBell> ujjain: she has an aunt who can put her up
[18:20] <AlanBell> which doesn't make much sense, but it means what you want it to
[18:21] <ujjain> she has an aunt who can provide her housing < wrong too? :p
[18:21] <ujjain> provide her space
[18:22] <OmNomSequitur> AlanBell, my old friend.
[18:41] <Azelphur> The Software Centre's "What's New" section confuses me. Doesn't Ubuntu only add new packages once every 6 months?
[18:41] <ujjain> new release of Ubuntu is once a 6 months.
[18:41]  * brobostigon is thinking about getting rid of debian sid and using ubuntu natty, but doesnt have the space to dual boot both, :(
[18:41] <ujjain> packages are updated and added frequently.
[18:42] <Azelphur> I see
[18:42] <Azelphur> I thought it was only security updates n stuff that gets in the repositories :s
[18:42] <Azelphur> what's the deal with the package deadlines then?
[18:43] <brobostigon> Azelphur: wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyRealeaseScehdule
[18:43] <brobostigon> Schedule*
[18:43] <brobostigon> Release*
[18:44] <brobostigon> wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyReleaseSchedule
[18:47] <ujjain> there seem to be new updates every week?
[18:49] <brobostigon> i dont think there are any major package updates between releases, expect for security updates, and only major package updates,when they have security fixes, but i maybe wrong.ot thats only for LTS's.
[18:49] <brobostigon> and packages are stabilised during the development cycle.
[18:51] <david-uwe> can someone please tell me a good social networking feed program for ubuntu
[18:51] <david-uwe> so i can view feeds from twitter, facebook etc. in one news screen
[18:51] <brobostigon> david-uwe: gwibbr works fairly well here.
[18:51] <brobostigon> gwibber*
[18:52] <david-uwe> oh i ignored it thinking it was just an xamp chat client
[18:52] <brobostigon> howeevr, iwould use the gwibber ppa, as its newer.
[18:52] <david-uwe> ok, thank you
[18:52] <brobostigon> gwibber doesnt do xmpp/jabber.
[18:52] <MattJ> Jabber \o/
[18:53] <david-uwe> also in the latest ubuntu, 64bit the autheticate box doesnt disappear after entering correct password
[18:53] <david-uwe> have to close it via the button, not sure if its a flaw, worth pointing out though
[18:53] <brobostigon> david-uwe: i do believe that has been corrected in the gwibber ppa, the version in the main ubuntu repos, is somewhat behind.
[18:54] <brobostigon> !info gwibber
[18:54] <david-uwe> cool, thanks
[18:55] <brobostigon> its is behind, i have 2.91.2 here.
[18:56] <brobostigon> david-uwe: however you do have to keep in mind, there are some ubuntu specific changes to the ubuntu repo version, specificlly  for ubuntu. which the ppa version, might break.
[18:57] <david-uwe> i see
[18:58] <brobostigon> david-uwe: you can try it out, and always roll back easily if needed.
[18:58] <david-uwe> yep :)
[18:59] <david-uwe> whens the next big version update for ubuntu?
[18:59] <brobostigon> 11.04
[19:00] <brobostigon> wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyReleaseSchedule
[19:01] <david-uwe> thanks again
[19:01] <brobostigon> you're welcome.
[19:02]  * brobostigon tried latest natty daily-live from live usb earlier, and was curiously impressed.
[19:03] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Andrew] HowTo: Gtk.Scrollbars and Floating Widgets - http://whyareyoureadingthisurl.wordpress.com/2011/02/15/howto-gtk-scrollbars-and-floating-widgets/
[19:43] <ndf> ello
[19:44] <ndf> for some reason my media keys aren't working now =/
[19:44] <ndf> i have an acer and i hear the acpi is a bit iffy
[19:46] <ndf> oh its ok
[19:46] <ndf> i got dis =D
[19:47] <AlanBell> loadsa pins \o/ http://ubuntu-uk.org/where-are-we/
[19:48]  * MartijnV1S adds a pin
[19:48]  * AlanBell zooms out
[20:10] <shauno> aw, the pins aren't clickable .. I was really curious who's out in orkney
[20:12] <MartijnV1S> shauno: they are here
[20:13] <DJones> shauno you can right click on them to find the name
[20:14] <MartijnV1S> Right? Left-click for me
[20:14] <DJones> could be left, can't remember which
[20:22] <hazrpg> AlanBell: you mean the mailing list?
[20:24] <hazrpg> AlanBell: should have thought we had a mailing list
[20:24] <hazrpg> how many people actually use the mailing list?
[20:24] <DJones> +1
[20:25] <AlanBell> hazrpg: lots more than IRC
[20:26] <hazrpg> AlanBell: wow
[20:27] <AlanBell> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-uk/2011-February/028779.html
[20:41] <penguin42> hmph
[20:49] <popey> bigcalm: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-MfrT0wvMg
[20:54] <AlanBell> popey: how many mailing list subscribers are there for the -uk list?
[20:54] <neuro> seven
[20:57] <czajkowski> Ubuntu UK mailing list is rather active compared to many others
[21:06] <dwatkins> is it also visible online, czajkowski?
[21:07] <czajkowski> archives yes
[21:08]  * dwatkins is a curious monkey
[21:08] <AlanBell> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-uk/
[21:08] <czajkowski> odd odd ball
[21:08] <dwatkins> o.O
[21:21] <AlanChicken> clucking netsplits
[21:21] <AlanBell> thats better
[21:22] <brobostigon> :)
[21:22] <UndiFineD> tomorrow taco's ?
[21:28] <popey> tempted to hold an Ubuntu Global Jam session at my house
[21:30] <AlanBell> will there be cake?
[21:31] <ging> maybe people will find out if popey towers is actually a tower
[21:31] <popey> AlanBell: if you bring it
[21:31] <popey> thing is it's 3rd April
[21:31] <popey> my birthday is 4th April
[21:31] <popey> :D
[21:31] <dogmatic69> beats the 1st :)
[21:32] <ging> AlanBell: take cake flour and a few other things and in 3 minutes you can have cake
[21:32]  * AlanBell wonders if there are enough candles in the drawer
[21:33] <AlanBell> it is also mothers day
[21:36] <AlanBell> 39 candles is it?
[21:36] <popey> indeed
[21:36] <AlanBell> again
[21:36] <popey> :)
[21:40] <czajkowski> popey: so can we invaed yours instead of my office so :)
[21:40] <AlanBell> I have 41 candles in the tin
[21:41] <czajkowski> wait popey is going to be 41
[21:41] <czajkowski> :o
[21:43] <bigcalm> Poor bugger
[21:43] <ging> seriously?
[21:44] <popey> wut
[21:44] <popey> no
[21:44] <popey> I was born in 1972
[21:44] <czajkowski> I was wondering you don't look a day over 21 !
[21:44]  * czajkowski is hoping for cake so is being extra nice
[21:44] <penguin42> popey: It was a popular year
[21:45] <brobostigon> wow, popey is tenyears older than me,
[21:45] <dutchie> 20 older than me :)
[21:46] <czajkowski> dutchie: that may result in you not getting cake!
[21:46] <popey> :)
[21:46] <popey> dutchie always gets cake
[21:46] <dutchie> \o/
[21:46] <penguin42> popey: If you want to feel young, go to a computer conservation society meeting like I did this evening; someone came up to me and congratulated me as being someone under 50
[21:46] <bigcalm> popey: as old as Hayley then
[21:47] <dutchie> speaking of old computer people, i saw knuth talk today
[21:47] <AlanBell> czajkowski: 41 is the number of candles I have available
[21:48] <AlanBell> so popey can have 2 more birthdays if he wants, then I stop bringing cake
[21:48] <penguin42> dutchie: I saw him last week - was he any more coherent at your talk?
[21:48] <popey> :)
[21:50] <dutchie> penguin42: well, he was a bit coherent
[21:50] <dutchie> it was pretty interesting and made more sense than the talk i just got back from
[21:50] <mgdm> AlanBell: surely you'll only have 2 after this one?
[21:51] <daubers> AlanBell: OR! We could do what my uncle did to my cousin
[21:51] <daubers> i.e. a ballon covered in whipped cream as a cake
[21:52] <daubers> makes a fantastic mess when it's "cut"
[21:54]  * daubers slaps the stupid keyboard layout issue in natty
[21:56] <Baikonur> natty dread <3
[21:58] <penguin42> dutchie: It was kind of interesting, although he managed to answer everyones question with an answer to a different question
[21:58] <dutchie> penguin42: well for us he waffled on for too long for there to be time for questions
[21:59] <dutchie> was he doing knight's tours at yours too?
[21:59] <penguin42> no
[21:59] <penguin42> dutchie: He didn't waffle long to us, he actually had more questions
[22:08] <Myrtti> wohey, preordered the new Radiohead album
[22:09] <oly> anyone know any programs that can sniff serial communication
[22:09] <czajkowski> Myrtti: yay
[22:09] <oly> got an application i want to write to control a device, but need to figure out how to communicate with it
[22:09] <oly> so need something that can show me whats being sent and recieved over usb serial cable
[22:10] <mgdm> Myrtti: \o/
[22:11] <bigcalm> Anybody here use MS Dynamics and send data to it from a MySQL db and PHP?
[22:11] <penguin42> oly: Do you mean USB or do you mean USB-serial adapter?
[22:12] <mgdm> oly: there are things I know of in Windows that do that
[22:12] <penguin42> sorry, pidgin crashed
[22:13] <mgdm> I've not needed to use them myself because I worked out the device in question :)
[22:13] <penguin42> oly: Wireshark on Linux can watch USB
[22:13] <mgdm> penguin42: ooh, didn' tknow that
[22:13] <alexh>  /part
[22:13] <oly> i think its rs232 cable, it shows up on /dev/ttyusb0
[22:13] <oly> i looked in wireshark it confused me
[22:14] <oly> showed two usb devices could not find a way to tell which device was mine
[22:14] <oly> as it did not say where they where connected
[22:14] <penguin42> oh, if it's just usb-serial then minicom is a serial terminal that can work with that; spying on i9t while something else runs is trickier
[22:14] <oly> but that could be my lack of knowledge of wireshark
[22:15] <oly> does minicom actually monitor though as some of the apps i have tried seem to block off the port so the app can not use it
[22:15] <penguin42> no, it doesn't monitor - it acts as a serial terminal
[22:16] <oly> i need something that montiors i think, so i can see whatr the program sends and what the device sends back in responce
[22:17] <penguin42> you might be able to do that with wireshark watching the messages going to the usb-serial adapter, not sure if it'll pick it apart for you
[22:18] <oly> yeah it seems like wireshark may do what i want, its just it does not seem to let you select it by device
[22:50] <DeathSling> Hi all   :)       I got a queston....
[22:50] <penguin42> ask the question
[22:51] <DeathSling> two identical ubuntu 10.10 servers only one doesn't ask for confirmation during apt-get / aptitude       what have I done?
[22:51] <penguin42> command line?
[22:52] <penguin42> which confirmation?
[22:52] <DeathSling> I've gone all out nerdy and only using command line so I know I havn't clicked somthing by accident
[22:53] <DeathSling> ~$ sudo apt-get install *****       or as just now     ~$ sudo aptitude remove *****
[22:53] <popey> uh
[22:53] <brobostigon> and it asks you for you password.
[22:54] <popey> if all you're installing is one single package with no deps, there will be no prompt
[22:54] <DeathSling> yes, done the password bit, but as it starts it then asks for confimation   [y/n]
[22:54] <popey> e.g. sudo apt-get install cowsay
[22:54] <ali1234> there is the certificate check too
[22:54] <popey> that doesn't prompt
[22:54] <penguin42> yeh I get it sometimes asking for a confirmation
[22:54] <ali1234> although i haven't seen that for a while
[22:55] <DeathSling> I'm doing the same install (virtual hosts) so I should be getting the same
[22:55] <penguin42> DeathSling: I get the feeling there is some sort of threshold if it has to download a lot or do something it feels you mgiht not want that it does it
[22:55] <popey> penguin42: threshold is one package
[22:55] <AlanBell> it is all about dependencies
[22:55] <popey> yup
[22:55] <maco2> AlanBell++
[22:55] <AlanBell> if there is one it asks
[22:55] <maco2> if its > 1 package but they're all ones you listed, it shouldnt prompt then either
[22:56] <AlanBell> yup
[22:56] <popey> welcome to 22:54:19
[22:56] <popey> :)
[22:56] <bigcalm> ?
[22:56] <DeathSling> yup it for dependacy and I'm used to that but one of them isn't doing it which is what i don't nderstand
[22:56] <AlanBell> you asked me to install foo, but that won't work unless I install bar, are you cool about me going ahead and installing bar as well?
[22:56] <ali1234> pastebin the output
[22:56] <AlanBell> DeathSling: one server already has bar
[22:57] <DeathSling> bar?
[22:57] <AlanBell> the dependency
[22:57] <AlanBell> of foo
[22:57] <DeathSling> server and liquids.... are you mad man    ;)
[22:58] <AlanBell> you have to ask?
[22:58] <DeathSling> i've kept them the same all the way through, well obviously not
[23:00] <DeathSling> ahh... foo bar  .... i'm slow tonight....
[23:00] <popey> foo, bar, baz
[23:01] <DeathSling> all i heard was a plane going over my head
[23:01] <DeathSling> ;)
[23:02] <DeathSling> thinking about it i did use aptitude briefly on the second machine but wouldn't cause it would it?
[23:04] <AlanBell> so if you do "sudo apt-get install kubuntu-desktop" you are saying it would just go ahead and do it without additional prompts on one server?
[23:10] <DeathSling> yep
[23:10] <virusuy> Oli``: congratz dude for winning the askubuntu.com' elecction
[23:10] <virusuy> greetins from Uruguay
[23:11] <Oli``> virusuy: thanks
[23:11] <brobostigon> nos da everyone.
[23:11] <virusuy> Oli``: actually, you was my firts choice.. i like the way that you wrote your posts
[23:11] <virusuy> s/firts/first/
[23:20] <Laney> i quite like answering askubuntu questions
[23:20] <david-uwe> how do i exit a man page in terminal in ubuntu? ctrl c, ctrl q and esc dont work
[23:21] <Laney> q
[23:21] <moreati> david-uwe: just q works here
[23:21] <david-uwe> ctrl z eorked
[23:21] <david-uwe> oh cool, thanks :)
[23:21] <Laney> c-z will background it, use 'fg' to get it back
[23:21] <david-uwe> oh nice, thanks
[23:21] <Laney> (I bet it said '…suspended…')
[23:21] <david-uwe> nothing came up
[23:22] <david-uwe> i assumed it was closed
[23:23] <david-uwe> so how come in newer versions pidgin has been replaced with evolution
[23:23] <BigRedS> empathy, surely?
[23:23] <david-uwe> empathy even
[23:23] <david-uwe> sorry
[23:23] <david-uwe> :)
[23:23] <BigRedS> empathy uses telepathy, which is a gnomish component. It's way more extensible than pidgin
[23:23] <BigRedS> but, as yet, seriously lacking in features comparitively
[23:23] <nucc1> erm, anyone know how i can move the gnome-panel in ubuntu 10.10?
[23:23] <Laney> it was judged to have a better future I guess
[23:23] <david-uwe> indeedy
[23:23] <Laney> nucc1: alt+drag
[23:24] <nucc1> Laney, thank you for that :)
[23:24] <Laney> pleasure
[23:24] <nucc1> quite an embarassing thing not to know how to do :p
[23:24] <david-uwe> best notepad IDE availablef or ubuntu?
[23:24] <Laney> it's a bit of an obscure one
[23:24] <david-uwe> im talking more than gedit :P
[23:24] <BigRedS> david-uwe: notepad IDE?
[23:25] <Laney> geany?
[23:25] <david-uwe> notepad with line colouring
[23:25] <david-uwe> thanks
[23:25] <nucc1> i'd hand it to gedit.
[23:25] <nucc1> especially with the plugins enabled
[23:25] <david-uwe> gotcha
[23:25] <moreati> david-uwe: kate gets a lot of love from KDE users
[23:25] <nucc1> it's one of the few gnome apps that ships with in-sane defaults.
[23:25] <BigRedS> oh. Gvim? Gedit seems reasonable enough to me
[23:26] <david-uwe> alrighty :)
[23:26] <Laney> http://www.geany.org/Documentation/Screenshots
[23:27] <BigRedS> I keep trying to get into an IDE
[23:28] <nucc1> BigRedS, IDE in what sense?
[23:28] <BigRedS> eclipse, netbeans etc. Not HDD interfaces :)
[23:28] <nucc1> lol
[23:28] <david-uwe> you can even do php in netbeans now :)
[23:28] <BigRedS> I just get bored of ':w' related syntax errors and go back to vim...
[23:28] <nucc1> i don't know why, but i can't get my head around netbeans.
[23:28] <david-uwe> its pretty good, i use it for java
[23:29] <nucc1> or eclipse. i find myself always going right back to gedit, even for java
[23:29] <david-uwe> :P
[23:29] <directhex> eclipse is diabolical though
[23:29] <nucc1> the program is too big, slow, and crowded. it confuses me
[23:29] <moreati> BigRedS: they really work best if you start a project from scratch within their infrastructure. I find much of an IDE becomese clunky if you try to use it on a project with an existing build infrastructure
[23:29] <directhex> i've only really enjoyed two IDEs: Delphi, and MonoDevelop
[23:29] <BigRedS> moreati: yeah. I've heard that. Problem is that I rarely program anything that could be described as a 'project'
[23:30] <david-uwe> i still compile java from terminal, but netbeans is good at picking up silly errors
[23:30] <nucc1> monodevelop looks nice, except i don't do C#
[23:30] <BigRedS> occasionally scripts become, er, scripts and modules, but it's quite rare there's more than a couple of files, especially from the start
[23:30] <moreati> The VB Visual Studio was a joy to use, back in the day
[23:30] <BigRedS> I did get into Netbeans when I did my Java dabbling
[23:30] <directhex> nucc1, it can do java, but i don't remember if that's real java or ikvm only
[23:31] <nucc1> hmmm, i have to check it out. i think anjuta started java support as well
[23:32] <nucc1> seems not to have an option of doing it without autotools
[23:34] <david-uwe> right how on earth can i shrink xchat-gnome to the start bar
[23:35] <nucc1> directhex, i can only see C++ and VB in monodevelop
[23:36] <directhex> nucc1, install the java addin then
[23:38] <nucc1> david-uwe, i've no idea how to interpret your question
[23:39] <moreati> david-uwe: Since Start Bar is an MS Windows thing it would be tricky. Do you mean the notification area, i.e. the icons next to the clock?
[23:41] <david-uwe> its still, technically, a start bar?
[23:41] <david-uwe> that'll be my argument in court
[23:42] <david-uwe> but ya i sure do mean the notification area :)
[23:42] <david-uwe> should prolly just install standard xchat
[23:45] <BigRedS> surely the Windows analogue to the notification area is the system tray?
[23:49] <directhex> BigRedS, correct
[23:49] <david-uwe> thats the one, i love you
[23:49] <david-uwe> however im assuming now that xchat gnome cant shrink to there, so thats annoying
[23:49] <david-uwe> for some reason i enjoy how plain and ugly it is