[01:11] <enigma42> Hm...I ran into a strange bzr-svn error.
[01:11] <enigma42> It's throwing out stack trace.
[01:12] <enigma42> bzr-svn 0.6.5
[01:12] <jelmer> enigma42: please file a bug
[01:12] <enigma42> OK
[01:13] <enigma42> Oh...should I try 1.00 first?
[01:13] <jelmer> enigma42: probably
[01:13] <enigma42> How much of a difference is there between 0.6.5 and 1.0?
[01:13] <enigma42> OK.
[01:14] <enigma42> Oh...another quick question...
[01:14] <enigma42> How do I clear the svn cache now that it's using sqlite
[01:14] <enigma42> ?
[01:14] <jelmer> enigma42: it's always been sqlite :-)
[01:14] <enigma42> Oh. Where did the cache move to?
[01:14] <jelmer> enigma42: ~/.bzaar/svn-cache ~/.cache/bazaar/svn
[01:15] <enigma42> Oh...OK.
[01:15] <jelmer> either of thoes locations
[01:15] <zsquareplusc> is there a bzr command to remove a remote branch? (bzr+ssh URL)
[01:23] <enigma42> jelmer: I'm curious, where does the svn repo ID come from? Such as: daff2dd8-1c3d-0410-9cd2-f6297dd8f964
[01:23] <enigma42> Does subversion generate that itself?
[01:25] <enigma42> I've noticed that bzr-svn always seems to come up with the same ID no matter which machine
[01:25] <enigma42> So long as I'm pointing to the same repo.
[01:27] <lifeless> svn has a GUID repository ID
[01:28] <jelmer> enigma42: yeah, svn generates it itself
[01:39] <meoblast001> lifeless: i just wanted to tell you i think i got everything straighted out
[01:39] <meoblast001> i'm making a backup copy of the old branch just in case
[01:42] <meoblast001> scratch that, getting errors
[01:42] <meoblast001> http://codepad.org/3P2U2cGQ
[01:44] <enigma42> jelmer: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr-svn/+bug/436971
[01:45] <enigma42> it just affects a couple of my projects.
[01:45] <enigma42> We have about 70+ projects using trunk1 layout.
[01:45] <enigma42> But just a couple of them get this error when I try to push a new branch into /project/branches
[01:46] <meoblast001> is that because i init'd a new branch on my system and imported my stream into it?
[01:46] <enigma42> Cooincidentally, only the problematic projects have been used with bzr-svn since the dawn of time. I'm wondering if it's an old metadata problem.
[01:54] <meoblast001> how do i make these repositories compatible
[01:55] <meoblast001> i have a stream of my branch, so all i have to do to create a new branch with the contents of this one is init it and then import it
[01:56] <fullermd> Those two in particular?  You don't.  Working across a rich root divide isn't practical.  You'd have to switch one or the other.
[01:56] <meoblast001> what do you mean?
[01:57] <fullermd> Revisions with rich root info can't be put into a repository with an impoverished-root format.
[01:58] <meoblast001> what is rich root and impoverished root?
[01:58] <fullermd> (in this case specifically, 2a is the trigger pull; it's the first default format that's rich-root.  Previous rr formats were all non-default choices)
[01:59] <meoblast001> oh, you mean because i have bzr 2.x and my old repository was 1.x?
[01:59] <fullermd> Well, impoverished root is just my term, 'cuz I feel silly typing 'non-rich-root' or variants of it all the time...
[01:59] <fullermd> Any opportunity to play games with language.
[02:00] <meoblast001> well, how do i make an impoverished root branch?
[02:00] <fullermd> Specifically, your 'old' repository is in a non-rr format.  So you'd have to use one compatible with that (something like 1.9, say).
[02:00] <meoblast001> so i have to install Bazaar 1.9?
[02:01] <fullermd> Alternately, upgrade the poor branch to a rr capable format; that's the future.
[02:01] <meoblast001> but 2.x is still in RC
[02:01] <fullermd> No, just use --format=1.9.
[02:01] <meoblast001> so bzr init --format=1.9?
[02:01] <fullermd> Sure, but there've been rr formats back as far as bzr 1.0 (rich-root-pack), and rr versions of every format since.
[02:01] <fullermd> It's just with 2 that the _default_ starts being rr.
[02:01] <fullermd> Yah.
[02:02] <meoblast001> ok
[02:02] <meoblast001> i can upgrade to rich-root later without causing problems, right?
[02:03] <fullermd> Yeah, that way works fine.  It's going the other way that doesn't.
[02:04] <fullermd> (rich root stores strictly more information, so trying to go the other way would be throwing things away)
[02:04] <meoblast001> yes, but throwing away useless information
[02:04] <meoblast001> i want to upgrade when everything is for sure stable
[02:04] <meoblast001> i'm a little cautious
[02:04] <fullermd> No, it's not useless information.
[02:05] <meoblast001> oh, i heard it was :/
[02:05] <fullermd> And throwing it away would mean you now had two versions of the same revision out there.  That's a serious no-no.
[02:05] <meoblast001> i heard instead of saving whole lines in the differences, it would only store character changes
[02:05] <fullermd> No, it's nothing like that.
[02:05] <fullermd> And that change wouldn't be incompatible anyway, as long as it assembled the same text in the end.
[02:06] <fullermd> Specifically, the different is that rich root formats store an identity for the root of the tree.  Poor roots don't.
[02:21] <mzz> http://doc.bazaar-vcs.org/latest/en/upgrade-guide/index.html says I should "unset the current trunk from being the development focus" in launchpad. Where's the control for that? I can find a way to set a different development focus, but not to unset it completely.
[02:25] <wgrant> mzz: You unset the branch from the series, not the series from the development focus.
[02:26] <wgrant> mzz: https://launchpad.net/PROJECT/SERIES/+edit
[02:27] <mzz> wgrant: and set "Branch" to the empty string there?
[02:27] <wgrant> mzz: Probably.
[02:28]  * mzz tries
[02:28] <mzz> ok, that did something, let's see if the rest of the steps work
[02:29] <mzz> does it make sense to just delete ~me/project/trunk and re-push it from scratch?
[02:29] <mzz> no, wait
[02:30] <mzz> I should push a new one just in case anyone stacked on the old branch. Bleh, naming. migrated-trunk?
[02:30] <wgrant> You can't delete the old one if anything is stacked on it.
[02:31] <SamB_XP> wgrant: oh, that's nice!
[02:31] <SamB_XP> what happens if you try it from the command line ?
[02:31] <mzz> wgrant: ah, so if launchpad lets me I won't really inconvenience anyone by doing it?
[02:31] <wgrant> mzz: Well, unless they have local stacked branches, in which case they're insane.
[02:31] <SamB_XP> indeed
[02:31] <SamB_XP> what if they lost connectivity for a time?
[02:32] <mzz> well, this *is* a pretty insane project, but I seriously doubt anyone branched off it at all, let alone stack on top of it
[02:32]  * mzz smites the branch
[02:32] <wgrant> SamB_XP: Or if they want to do anything even slightly unslowly.
[02:32] <SamB_XP> wgrant: yes, or that
[02:33] <SamB_XP> it's about as insane as doing a lightweight checkout from launchpad or SVN
[02:33] <mzz> hey, I just did that
[02:34] <mzz> (to look at a file, I didn't need any history)
[02:34] <mzz> ok, this seems to have worked
[02:35] <mzz> let me do the same delete and fresh push on my two +junk branches
[02:38] <SamB_XP> mzz: if I wanted to look at just one file, I'd probably just use loggerhead or the HTTP URL ...
[02:38] <SamB_XP> ... if I could figure out what the latter was
[02:38] <SamB_XP> since I clearly can't type lp:foo in my browser's URL bar
[02:39] <mzz> SamB_XP: I was already on the commandline, not a browser. Typing "bzr co lp:whatever" and feeding the file to less was faster than switching to a browser and navigating through loggerhead
[02:39] <SamB_XP> mzz: oh, that defaults to --lightweight now?
[02:39] <mzz> (I have co aliased to checkout --lightweight)
[02:39] <SamB_XP> oh
[02:41] <mzz> I have a probably slightly odd setup where most of my code lives in no-trees repositories on a fileserver on my lan, while I work in local lightweight checkouts of those
[02:45] <SamB_XP> mzz: that's a bit less dumb
[02:45] <mzz> thanks? :)
[02:45] <SamB_XP> I sometimes work in directories that are themselves on a fileserver
[02:46] <SamB_XP> well, it's an NFS server, really
[02:46] <SamB_XP> and something about the setup makes the time to access a file pretty high ...
[02:47] <SamB_XP> I mean, if you untar something it can take quite a while
[02:47] <mzz> this setup is usually fast enough, and if it isn't I can always do a full local branch
[02:47] <mzz> advantage is that I can't forget to push changes off my desktop onto the fileserver so they're accessible remotely when the desktop is off
[02:48] <fullermd> ...  computers turn off?
[02:49] <mzz> my fileserver doesn't
[02:49] <SamB_XP> someone keeps turning off the print server here ...
[02:49] <mzz> my desktop occasionally does
[02:49] <SamB_XP> ... might be something to do with the fact that it runs windows 98 ...
[02:49] <mzz> hah
[02:51]  * mzz is upgrading all his stuff to 2a while simultaneously clearing out cruft
[02:52] <mzz> apparently I have a lot of that
[03:03] <Peng_> I keep my server on the latest formats and relatively clean, but my PC is a huge mess of formats. :D
[03:03] <RenatoSilva> Is it common to develop oriented to bugs? I mean, every change you developer want to do, you register a bug before that, making every or many commits having a bug id assigned?
[03:04] <fullermd> That sounds like a "community standards" question.
[03:12] <RenatoSilva> fullermd: mine?
[03:12] <fullermd> Yeah.
[03:14] <RenatoSilva> fullermd: I think I'll do that only for important bugs, even though it's not possible to tell launchpad since what milestone the bug applies
[03:15] <RenatoSilva> thansk anyway!
[03:15] <fullermd> Oh, see, now you're trending toward one of the two Great Unanswerable Questions.
[03:15] <fullermd> (1) What is the meaning of life?
[03:15] <fullermd> (2) Is it possible to make a bug tracker that doesn't suck?
[03:16] <fullermd> (obviously, of course, the answers are "chocolate" and "no".  But I haven't figured out for sure which answer goes to which question yet.)
[03:17] <RenatoSilva> chocolate means you're fat?
[03:17] <RenatoSilva> and lp's bugtracker does not suck
[03:17] <fullermd> I've known plenty of rail-thin people who understood the preeminence of chocolate over everything else...
[03:18] <RenatoSilva> and?
[03:18] <fullermd> All bugtrackers suck.  They just suck in different ways.
[03:18]  * RenatoSilva suffers of /clearing-screen-all-the-time syndrom and didn't read last message
[03:23] <RenatoSilva> fullermd: I think when I release the targeted milestone 'next-release' (I use date-based versions) that info will stay on the bug. So the bug affects at least the prior milestone
[03:51] <jderose> bzr sattus
[03:51] <jderose> bzr diff
[03:51] <jderose> hehe, crap, wrong window  ;)
[04:02] <meoblast001> is 725.3 KB a good file size for the .bzr directory on a 70 commit project?
[04:04] <mzz> that doesn't sound completely insane
[04:04] <mzz> wh?
[04:04] <mzz> why, even?
[04:15] <Peng_> meoblast001: Is this the one that had 10 MB of binaries?
[04:15] <meoblast001> yup :)
[04:15] <meoblast001> i think i cleaned it up a bit
[04:18] <meoblast001> Peng_: do you think it is good?
[04:18] <Peng_> Sure, why not?
[04:19] <Peng_> I don't have any actual studies to say how good that is for a project of its size, but it's not a significant amount of data unless you're on dial-up, so at that point, who cares?
[04:20] <Peng_> s/studies/data/ -- don't have to be *that* scientific
[04:20] <Peng_> meoblast001: What disk format?
[04:20] <meoblast001> SATA?
[04:20] <meoblast001> or EXT3
[04:21] <Peng_> meoblast001: I mean bzr repository format.
[04:21] <meoblast001> 1.9
[04:22] <Peng_> 2a will be smaller. And faster and just generally cooler.
[04:22] <meoblast001> i will upgradt to 2a soon
[04:23] <Peng_> :D
[06:56] <rsvp> can the new BAZAAR v2.0 write to the older formats? (assuming it can convert to the new 2a format, right?) -- must everyone on a team use the same bzr version?
[06:59] <Peng_> rsvp: Bazaar 2.0 didn't drop any of the old formats.
[07:00] <Peng_> rsvp: You don't even have to convert or anything. (Though you should. 2a rocks!)
[07:01] <rsvp> Peng_, thanks for your response -- just want to make sure to confirm answers over at #python.
[07:28] <AfC> rsvp: no, everyone on a team does not need to use the same bzr version.
[07:29] <rsvp> AfC, thanks --
[07:29] <AfC> rsvp: they just need to all be using a version that supports whatever format the team repo is in. Just the usual lowest common denominator thing.
[07:31] <AfC> rsvp: though you will accrue much greatness that lowest common denominator is 2a. It'll be worth pushing for (ie, getting people onto newer code as fast as possible, rather than lallygagging) because that format will be extant for the foreseeable future but of course bzr versions >= 2.0 will improve in other ways but building on that base.
[07:31] <rsvp> I've been upgrading using Ubuntu repository, but to upgrade via "bzr branch lp:bzr bzr.dev" from which directory should that be issued (sudo bash first)?
[07:33] <mzz> you mentioning sudo there scares me
[07:33] <AfC> rsvp: the PPA at https://launchpad.net/~bzr/+archive/ppa should always have the latest bzr release. Can you use that?
[07:33] <mzz> what are you trying to do?
[07:34] <mzz> if you're just trying to run a recent version of bzr use that ppa
[07:35] <rsvp> mzz, I want to install v2 from source.
[07:35] <mzz> why?
[07:35] <mzz> to just install v2 just use that ppa
[07:36] <rsvp> ok
[07:39] <mdz> jml, thumper, anyone around?
[07:43] <mdz> I need help with a branch incompatibility issue
[09:45] <lifeless> mdz: 'sup?
[10:29] <jelmer> Lo-lan-do: ping
[10:39] <Lo-lan-do> pong
[10:42]  * Lo-lan-do highlights jelmer
[10:44] <jelmer> Lo-lan-do: Sorry, was wondering whether a particular bug was fixed
[10:44] <jelmer> Lo-lan-do: but it seems your patches already took care of that
[10:45] <Lo-lan-do> Which one?
[13:22] <Meths> The Windows downloads show bzr-2.0.0-2-setup.exe and bzr-2.0.0-1-win32.py2.6.exe.  Is there a -2-win32 file being built or was the -2-setup only produced to fix an error in the setup file and the py2.6 file is perfectly okay to use?
[14:02] <emmajane> igc, ping?
[14:21] <awilkins> Meths: The -setup is an encapsulated py2exe applications, with it's own libraries and pre-installed plugins
[14:21] <awilkins> Meths: The python variants have no plugins and require python of the quoted version installed ; they are more suitable for someone who has more intensive plugin needs, or needs to configure a smart webserver.
[14:22] <Lo-lan-do> Shouldn't the topic mention that 2.0 is *released* now (rather than frozen)?
[14:30] <emmajane> igc, not sure if you're still up, but I'm headed out for breakfast if you want to try the merge. if not I'll look at it later this afternoon.
[15:58] <dash> congrats on the 2.0 release :)
[15:59] <dash> I am trying to upgrade Twisted's bzr repo to 2a, but it's hosted on a low-memory box, and it didn't complete before being killed
[15:59] <dash> is there a way to do the upgrade incrementally or should I just try again on a box with better specs and copy it?
[16:00] <Lo-lan-do> dash: (From a not-too-involved bystander) You may try using a swap file first.
[16:01] <dash> mmh... yeah. this is a kind of small VM
[16:01] <Lo-lan-do> My feeling is that bzr uses lots of memory, but not necessarily repeatedly, and the actual accesses feel like they're mostly local and not all around.
[16:01] <dash> maybe that'd work. can't say it excites me :)
[16:01] <Lo-lan-do> So maybe swapping won't be a performance killer.
[16:28] <meoblast001> hi
[16:30]  * SamB_XP has a feeling he's seen meoblast001 somewhere before
[16:30] <meoblast001> yes you have
[16:30] <meoblast001> i'm the guy who constantly fears he's doing something inefficient
[16:31]  * awilkins just increased the execution time of a unit test in his project by 80% - he's definitely doing something inefficient
[16:32] <meoblast001> ok, so i just moved about a 25 line group of contiguous data up a few lines in one of my headers, is bazaar optimized to do this efficiently?
[16:32] <meoblast001> or does it just basically memorize "delete these 25 lines here, add these 25 lines here"
[16:33] <SamB_XP> awilkins: without changing the test, you mean?
[16:33] <awilkins> SamB_XP: I changed the code that's it's testing
[16:34] <awilkins> SamB_XP: I didn't think it would be that much of a change... but clearly I was wrong
[16:34] <awilkins> SamB_XP: Now I'm struggling to get the profiler installed in Eclipse because the update site is sooooo slow.
[16:35] <SamB_XP> what profiler would that be ?
[16:35] <awilkins> TPTP
[16:35] <SamB_XP> ... and why the heck would eclipse only have one update mirror ?
[16:37] <awilkins> SamB_XP: I suppose I could hunt for update mirrors.... what it needs is a way of switching between them automatically because lazy people like me are going to just check the box and hit gi
[16:37] <awilkins> go
[16:37] <SamB_XP> awilkins: what, no dialog with a list of 'em ?
[16:38] <awilkins> The update system has a list of update sites, but not a list of mirrors of update sites
[16:39] <awilkins> Even the eclipse.org site is as slow as molasses today
[16:39] <awilkins> So it's hard to find a list of mirrors :-(
[16:41] <LarstiQ> meoblast001: I wouldn't worry about it
[16:41] <meoblast001> ok
[16:41] <awilkins> It probably would remember something like that... but the group compression will probably catch that the two blocks are identical and reduce them to one object
[16:42]  * awilkins dances on "probablies"
[16:44] <SamB_XP> meoblast001: that's a tiny change anyway ...
[16:44] <SamB_XP> unless the lines are gigantic!
[16:44] <meoblast001> yeah, but it's only to make things conform with the coding standards
[16:44] <SamB_XP> I mean, as disk usage goes
[16:46]  * SamB_XP wants a dilbert tie ...
[16:46] <SamB_XP> ... you know, gravity-defying ;-P
[16:47] <SamB_XP> ... I guess if I managed to get one, I could study it and maybe win a nobel prize
[16:47] <meoblast001> SamB_XP: do you have coding standards with any of your projects?
[16:47] <SamB_XP> meoblast001: well, yeah
[16:47] <SamB_XP> a few
[16:47] <meoblast001> do you strictly enforce them
[16:47] <meoblast001> like, if you find something doesn't conform, do you fix it?
[16:48] <SamB_XP> er, well, they aren't really *my* projects
[16:48] <meoblast001> oh, ok
[16:48] <SamB_XP> at this point, I mostly work on other people's open source projects
[16:48] <SamB_XP> some of them have coding standards
[16:49] <meoblast001> oh, well, do you find it normal to strictly enforce those standards?
[16:49] <SamB_XP> some more strict than others
[16:49] <meoblast001> and clean up parts that don't follow them
[16:49] <SamB_XP> well, I guess it would depend on a few things
[16:49] <awilkins> The anal tension of the project lead, first and foremost
[16:49] <SamB_XP> some of those standards are generally pretty strict
[16:50] <SamB_XP> awilkins: well, with the less typographical standards, it may even depend on what makes more sense in the particular case
[16:50] <meoblast001> i don't think mine is too strict, but it has gotten a little more strict since i created it
[16:51] <SamB_XP> meoblast001: what specifically are you thinking about ?
[16:51] <meoblast001> what do you mean? what i'm fixing?
[16:51] <SamB_XP> I mean, what ... requirements of the standard have you tightened up on ?
[16:52] <SamB_XP> ... oh, it also can depend on whether anyone has time to fix the violation ;-)
[16:53] <meoblast001> i'm fixing the violation :P
[16:53] <meoblast001> here's my standards http://mysticgalaxies.com/wiki/index.php/Coding_Standards
[16:54] <meoblast001> but yes, i have tightened up a little so that things can be a little more consistent, and now i'm trying to fix it
[16:54] <SamB_XP> http://mysticgalaxies.com/wiki/index.php/Coding_Standards you say ...
[16:55] <meoblast001> yes
[16:56] <SamB> yeah, I just repeated it so I could open it on this computer ;-)
[16:56] <meoblast001> ah, ok :P
[16:56] <meoblast001> brb, breakfast
[16:57] <SamB> meoblast001: huh, I would call it "two space indents", given that you (wisely) require spaces rather than tabs be used for indentation ;-)
[16:58] <SamB> weird requirement on the call-parens ...
[16:59] <SamB> and calling access specifiers a level sounds weird, too -- I don't know if many editors can handle that
[17:00] <awilkins> One problem I have with coding standards is the mess they make of version histories when someone has a mass-enforcement session....
[17:01] <SamB> awilkins: yeah
[17:03] <SamB> meoblast001: oh, and I'm fairly certain that "proceed" is not the opposite of "precede" -- you probably meant "succeed" ;-P
[17:03]  * awilkins blinks    - he just managed to totally change the performance again, now it's more than 400% of it's previous execution time
[17:04] <LarstiQ> SamB: acccess specifiers as a level is the default afaik?
[17:05] <SamB> LarstiQ: I think emacs usually indents them between actual levels?
[17:13] <awilkins> Somehow I went from 31s to 49s to 130s ... I think it's all down to object boxing....
[17:14] <LarstiQ> awilkins: cricket is a much more civil sport
[17:14] <meoblast001> SamB: hm, you know what, you may be right
[17:15] <meoblast001> SamB: English is my native language but i always have trouble finding the right word when i'm writing a formal document
[17:15] <meoblast001> "following" was the word i was looking for
[17:15] <meoblast001> SamB: would you recommend i update my code to conform with it though? i suppose it's for the best
[17:17] <meoblast001> i suppose my fear is that if i let myself fix everything my OCD tells me to, before you know it i'll have a 60 GB branch and more commits than 32-bit possible
[17:17] <idnar> pfft, that's what 64-bit is for
[17:22] <meoblast001> am i freaking out way too much?
[17:26] <SamB> meoblast001: how big is your project?
[17:26] <SamB> and probably you are indeed worrying too much
[17:26] <meoblast001> big as in commits?
[17:26] <SamB> big as in lines of code
[17:26] <meoblast001> let me go check
[17:27] <meoblast001> SamB: http://www.ohloh.net/p/amethyst-mm/analyses/latest
[17:27] <meoblast001> 2000 lines of C++
[17:27] <awilkins> Teenytiny
[17:27] <SamB> indeed
[17:27] <awilkins> Let me see
[17:27] <SamB> and C++ needs quite a bit of wrangling
[17:28] <meoblast001> wrangling?
[17:28] <meoblast001> yes, it is very small
[17:28] <meoblast001> this project started in March
[17:28] <SamB> it's very badly behaved ;-P
[17:28] <meoblast001> my .bzr directory totals 724.7 KB
[17:28] <SamB> however, I think in future you may want to add more substantive things to your coding standard ;-)
[17:28] <meoblast001> substantive?
[17:29] <SamB> you know, things about what code should and should not *do*
[17:29] <meoblast001> oh, why's that?
[17:29] <meoblast001> well, what kinds of things could that be
[17:29] <meoblast001> don't set an unsigned integer to a negative number?
[17:30]  * awilkins has 22k lines of Java which is 1.7MB of code in a branch that's 14MB of packs
[17:30] <SamB> oh, I don't know
[17:31] <meoblast001> what's a good ratio of repository_size:commits
[17:32] <awilkins> And most of that 14MB is java libraries that I committed to the branch before I removed them and went all Maven on it's ass
[17:34] <SamB> meoblast001: well, it depends what you are doing ;-)
[17:38] <meoblast001> SamB: well, is 724.7 KB a normal amount for a 70 commit typical C++ applications?
[17:41] <SamB> I try to stay away from C++ programs of that size for the most part
[17:41] <SamB> the only thing I can think of that might draw me to such a thing is LLVM ...
[17:42] <meoblast001> SamB: wait, so it's too big?
[17:44] <SamB> meoblast001: too many lines of C++ for *me*, yeah
[17:44] <SamB> I don't really like C++
[17:44] <meoblast001> too many lines or too large of a repository size?
[17:45] <SamB> wait, wait, there was no size there ..
[17:45]  * SamB is confused
[17:46] <meoblast001> 724.7 KB
[17:47] <SamB> I meant, there was no amount of code there
[17:49] <meoblast001> 2000 lines
[17:49] <meoblast001> plus some build tools
[17:49] <LarstiQ> meoblast001: the code style changes will make annotation less useful
[17:49] <LarstiQ> meoblast001: that's the only thing I'd worry about
[17:49] <meoblast001> annotation?
[17:49] <LarstiQ> meoblast001: `bzr annotate`
[17:50] <LarstiQ> meoblast001: anyway, you can test what the result is, and if you don't like it, roll back to a previous revision
[17:50] <meoblast001> origin of each line in a file?
[17:50] <LarstiQ> meoblast001: yup
[17:50] <meoblast001> what use would that have?
[17:50] <LarstiQ> meoblast001: finding out when/why/by whom bugs are introduced
[17:51] <meoblast001> oh
[17:51] <Lo-lan-do> Automated finger-pointing!
[17:51] <meoblast001> :P
[17:51] <Lo-lan-do> Well, assisted, anyway.
[17:51] <Lo-lan-do> "Automated" would be with bisect.
[17:52] <meoblast001> POTFILES is not required if there's a POTFILES.in, right?
[17:53] <meoblast001> ok, just ran a test, it is not
[17:53] <Lo-lan-do> Okay, I'm fed up.  How do I fix stuff like "sha1 mismatch: ('…', '…') has sha1 f10eb6688e35bb6da12bb960b0ef58a3573e26d1 expected da39a3ee5e6b4b0d3255bfef95601890afd80709 referenced by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>errors?
[17:54] <LarstiQ> Lo-lan-do: reconcile?
[17:54] <Lo-lan-do> Done.  Several times.
[17:54] <jelmer> Lo-lan-do: that suggests dat ahas been inserted with the wrong sha1
[17:55] <jelmer> Lo-lan-do: unless you have data corruption on disk, it's probably a bug somewhere
[17:55] <Lo-lan-do> I recently did a check, found that the *one* revision listed was a head, uncommitted/recommitted it, and another check gives me another revision.
[17:56] <Lo-lan-do> This is on a fresh repo cloned from an old one, so I would have expected the stuff to be correctly inserted.
[17:56] <Lo-lan-do> 2.0.0-1 from Debian, 2a format, no frills.
[17:57] <Lo-lan-do> And it takes my computer about two hours to run bzr check in there, so I'd rather avoid fixing all these errors by hand.
[18:02] <meoblast001> SamB: it jumped to 731.9 KB
[18:02] <meoblast001> i uppose that's not much
[18:02] <meoblast001> 7.2 KB in 1 commit
[18:03] <Lo-lan-do> meoblast001: What format are you using?
[18:03] <meoblast001> 1.9
[18:03] <Lo-lan-do> 2a is more compact, if you can afford it.
[18:03] <meoblast001> afford it?
[18:03] <meoblast001> i will switch to 2a once 2.x is stable and most people are using it
[18:03] <LarstiQ> don't have older clients that can't read the format
[18:03] <Lo-lan-do> It needs all clients to be at least 1.17, I think.
[18:04] <meoblast001> oh, that should be no problem
[18:04] <meoblast001> i have no problem with forcing people to upgrade >:)
[18:05] <meoblast001> i suppose i'm worrying because i don't want my project to be one of those annoying projects that makes people say "30 minutes and you're still not done?!"
[18:06] <meoblast001> i've ran into projects that have huge source repositories
[18:06] <Lo-lan-do> You're at 70 revisions and 700 KB.  Unless you're doing dial-up over smoke signals, you're fine.
[18:06] <meoblast001> ok
[18:11] <SamB> meoblast001: this is how I feel today, btw, so if I say something strange-sounding... http://naesten.blogspot.com/2009/09/cant-haskell.html
[18:12] <meoblast001> SamB: you program in Haskell?
[18:13] <meoblast001> i kant python today... i has the dumb
[18:16] <SamB> meoblast001: I'm not saying I can't haskell, but I definately feel like I has the dumb!
[18:16] <meoblast001> :P
[18:17] <SamB> though python might actually be harder for me when I feel like this ...
[18:17] <meoblast001> speaking of Python, i think Bazaar is the best Python program out there
[18:18] <meoblast001> one of the developers on my project says he doesn't like our use of Bazaar because it depends on the unstable Python.. i said at least Bazaar is written well enough in Python to be stable :P
[18:19] <SamB> what, you mean the way they keep changing it?
[18:19] <SamB> no, that can't be what you mean
[18:19] <SamB> bazaar changes way more often than Python does ;-)
[18:19] <LarstiQ> unstable Python?...
[18:29] <SamB> LarstiQ: I guess maybe he was thinking of what happens when you make a typo and don't retest your code?
[18:32] <LarstiQ> SamB: or maybe that it has more language changes than Fortran in a 10 year period?
[18:32] <SamB> LarstiQ: I'm going to need to see sources on that
[18:33] <SamB> I mean, unless you're talking about Python 3000
[18:40] <LarstiQ> SamB: all 2.x versions have introduced something
[18:40] <LarstiQ> SamB: I still don't find that unstable, I'm just speculating as to what meoblast001' colleague could mean
[18:41] <meoblast001> i'm not upgrading for the same reason people often doing take a vaccine when it first comes out
[18:42] <meoblast001> the amount of people who have tested it isn't high enough
[18:42] <LarstiQ> sure
[18:42] <meoblast001> once 2.x is stable, most people will be using that, and most people will probably use 2a repositories
[18:42] <LarstiQ> meoblast001: but python 2.4 surely is welltested by now
[18:42] <meoblast001> ooh, regarding Python
[18:42] <meoblast001> i thought we were talking about 2a repositories
[18:42] <LarstiQ> meoblast001: no, "one of the developers on my project says he doesn't like our use of Bazaar because it depends on the unstable Python"
[18:43] <LarstiQ> is what I was responding to
[18:43] <meoblast001> ah, yes
[18:43] <meoblast001> he thinks Python is unstable
[18:47] <SamB> LarstiQ: do you have any idea how much fortran has changed in the last decade?
[18:47] <SamB> well, I don't have all that much idea either, to be honest
[18:59] <fullermd> I dunno about the last decade, but I know it changed a lot in the decade prior.
[19:00] <fullermd> My fortran book is slightly out of date.  But that's OK 'cuz I haven't really read it closely.
[19:00] <fullermd> Actually, I haven't gotten past the exercise in the first chapter about learning how to punch a card with my name on it...
[19:04] <LarstiQ> meoblast001: any idea why?
[19:05] <meoblast001> i think he thinks the API changes too often
[19:05] <LarstiQ> SamB: a bit, but it has standards that don't change
[19:23] <\u03b5> hi, is it possible to make a "link" to another branch with bzr?
[19:24] <SamB> you mean like lp:bzr-svn is a reference to something on samba.org ?
[19:25] <SamB> (iirc)
[19:25] <\u03b5> "branch blabla can be checked out in this directory"
[19:31] <zsquareplusc> \u03b5: what exactly do you expect to happen? e.g. that updating one branch also upgrades an other?
[19:31] <\u03b5> or (branching+)checking out one indeed
[19:32] <zsquareplusc> migrating from SVN? ;-)
[19:32] <\u03b5> nah, SVN is far away behind from me
[19:33] <\u03b5> I figured out about that feature in svn and thought it could be pretty nifty
[19:33] <\u03b5> but no biggie if it's not in bzr
[19:37] <zsquareplusc> i once asked about something similar to svn:exetrnals and was told that the same feature does not exits in bzr, but https://launchpad.net/config-manager would be helpful in such cases
[19:45] <\u03b5> oh well, that would be a bit overkill :)
[20:10] <davidstrauss> I'm having trouble building 2.0.0 on RHEL 5: "bzrlib/_annotator_pyx.c:30:27: error: python-compat.h: No such file or directory"
[21:09] <jderose> davidstrauss: do you see python-compat.h in brlib/?
[21:09] <mzz> davidstrauss: full build log may be of use
[22:34] <matthewlmcclure> jelmer: got a few minutes to chat about bazaar/perforce concept mapping?
[22:43] <jelmer> matthewlmcclure: hi
[22:43] <jelmer> matthewlmcclure: yeah
[22:43] <matthewlmcclure> perforce is pretty similar to subversion, at least at a high level of abstraction
[22:43] <matthewlmcclure> it's a centralized vcs
[22:45] <matthewlmcclure> it uses some different names for commands, but for the most commonly used commands, I think there's a one-to-one mapping with Subversion
[22:45] <jelmer> does it have a concept of branches?
[22:45] <jelmer> or is everything a directory like in subversion?
[22:46] <matthewlmcclure> it versions files rather than directories
[22:46] <matthewlmcclure> you can branch/copy individual files from any path to any other path in a "depot" (repository)
[22:47] <matthewlmcclure> there is a concept of a "branch spec", which is a metadata file describing how one path is branched to another
[22:48] <matthewlmcclure> however, you can "integrate" (branch) from any path to any other path without a branch spec also
[22:49] <jelmer> hmm
[22:51] <matthewlmcclure> i've been thinking that a first version of bzr-p4 might support only a single Perforce "view" and be ignorant of any branch relationship among its files
[22:51] <jelmer> can you do operations on entire directories?
[22:51] <matthewlmcclure> yes, in the sense that such an operation would apply to all files within the given directory
[22:52] <matthewlmcclure> but i don't believe there is any versioning, or data stored associated with the directory itself
[22:52] <matthewlmcclure> (like CVS)
[22:53] <matthewlmcclure> unlike CVS, and like Subversion, Perforce has a monotonically increasing "changelist" number per server
[22:53] <jelmer> ah, ok
[22:54] <matthewlmcclure> and each changelist contains n files changed
[22:54] <jelmer> so directories are implicit I guess rather than explicit (such as in svn or bzr) ?
[22:54] <matthewlmcclure> yes, i believe so
[22:59] <zsquareplusc> the bzr-explorer "edit my tools" isn't very useful.. it opens an almost empty xml file. how am i supposed to know what to write there?
[22:59] <matthewlmcclure> i've only begun to experiment with bzr-svn.  i gather that it allows viewing an svn path as a bzr branch, letting bzr commands operate directly on the svn path.  and it supports branching from the svn path, and pushing to it.
[23:00] <matthewlmcclure> to me, branching from a perforce "view", rebasing on it, and pushing to it, would be the most valuable operations to support in bzr-p4.
[23:01] <matthewlmcclure> do you have any recommendations on where i should start, or what code i should look at to see what's necessary?
[23:03] <jelmer> matthewlmcclure: I would recommend looking at the Branch and Repository classes in Bazaar
[23:03] <jelmer> those are the objects you have to provide implementations of that are answered by p4
[23:03] <jelmer> matthewlmcclure: the wikipedia page says perforce has a commercial license
[23:04] <jelmer> do you have an indepenednt python implementation or something that is available under a GPL-compatible license
[23:04] <jelmer> ?
[23:07] <matthewlmcclure> true.  it is commercially licensed.
[23:07] <matthewlmcclure> they make some concessions for open source development.  http://www.perforce.com/perforce/price.html#opensource
[23:08] <matthewlmcclure> i haven't executed anything with them yet.
[23:08] <matthewlmcclure> git-p4 uses the command-line interface of the p4 command
[23:08] <matthewlmcclure> i've been migrating away from that toward their P4Python API
[23:08] <jelmer> so all operations would have to invoke the p4 command?
[23:08] <jelmer> matthewlmcclure: is their p4python API GPL-compatible?
[23:10] <matthewlmcclure> I don't know if the FSF would say it's compatible, but redistribution in source form is permitted.
[23:13] <matthewlmcclure> the license text is in the tarball ftp://ftp.perforce.com/perforce/r09.1/bin.tools/p4python.tgz
[23:14] <jelmer> looks like a BSDish license
[23:15]  * ScottK dons his archive-admin hat and says it's GPL compatible.
[23:15] <jelmer> ScottK: :-)
[23:16] <jelmer> matthewlmcclure: it looks like the bindings link to the p4 libraries though - what's the license of those?
[23:17] <matthewlmcclure> yes, it is.  i'm not sure what the license of the C/C++ API is.  i'm looking for it now.
[23:29] <matthewlmcclure> i can't find any license that explicitly applies to the C/C++ API
[23:32] <awilkins> SamB_XP: Heh, that Java I was writing earlier now takes 12 seconds. Seems the hashtable was really slowing it down
[23:32] <SamB_XP> awilkins: what are you using instead ?
[23:33] <awilkins> I was using a fixed-depth bucket trie... I just had a hashtable in the back as well that I forgot about
[23:33] <awilkins> It eats 150MB of data files and writes the row IDS to 1000-row files in a trie folder structure on disk in that time
[23:39] <jelmer> matthewlmcclure: as I mentioned in my other mail I think a next good step would probably be to define a clear mapping between the bzr and the p4 concepts
[23:39] <jelmer> matthewlmcclure: bzr-svn has some documents in its specs/ folder
[23:40] <jelmer> matthewlmcclure: in particular, how would bzr revision ids for p4 revisions be generated, what information should they contain, etc.
[23:42] <matthewlmcclure> thanks.  i'll have a look at what bzr-svn does in that respect and write up what i think the equivalent mapping is for p4.
[23:43] <matthewlmcclure> jelmer: i have to sign off.  thanks for your help.


[02:01] <DrSmall> I haven't been on IRC in so long, I forget the basic commands
[02:46]  * hajour good night all
[03:13] <johnny77> paultag: you here tonight?
[03:13] <paultag> johnny77: yessir. How's Openbox treating you?
[03:14] <johnny77> paultag: Good, Thanks to you. Thank you so much for helping. I was just about at wit's end.
[03:16] <paultag> :)
[03:16] <paultag> good to hear I could help you stick with an awesome window manager
[03:17] <johnny77> paultag: It's now on to how to customize this bad boy.
[03:17] <paultag> johnny77: woo! That's the fun part :)
[03:18] <paultag> johnny77: want to start with themes?
[03:20] <johnny77> paultag: I'm not sure. I guess it doesn't really matter. I need a desktop app first, right?
[03:20] <paultag> johnny77: for desktop icons?
[03:20] <johnny77> paultag: don't I need a desktop app to do wallpaper?
[03:20] <paultag> johnny77: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Openbox#Desktop_icons
[03:20] <paultag> johnny77: Oh, no, not at all! :)
[03:21] <paultag> johnny77: you can use something to set the buffer behind the scene
[03:21] <johnny77> paultag: How would I do that?
[03:21] <paultag> johnny77: http://wiki.debian.org/Openbox#Wallpapers
[03:21] <paultag> johnny77: that link is a great start
[03:22] <paultag> feh is nice
[03:22] <johnny77> paultag: You are just full of links. :)
[03:22] <paultag> johnny77: I know nothing -- I just know where to find what one needs :)
[03:32] <johnny77> paultag: now that I can set my wallpaper it's time to find one I like. :)
[03:33] <paultag> johnny77: :D
[03:58] <MrAnthrope> Can someone remind me how to get the extra effects in Compiz CCSM?
[03:58] <holstein> MrAnthrope: those were added to the right click menu right?
[03:58] <holstein> with the backgroung settings?
[03:59] <MrAnthrope> Don't see the extra effects in there. I'm sure they were in CCSM, I just can't remember how I got them there. Synaptic maybe?
[03:59] <paultag> MrAnthrope: compiz-fusion-plugins-extra
[04:00] <paultag> MrAnthrope: I love your nick, by the way
[04:00] <MrAnthrope> o.o
[04:00] <MrAnthrope> Can I just type sudo apt-get compizblahblah in the terminal
[04:00] <JackyAlcine> MrAnthrope: Try downloading Ubuntu Tweak; it has a feature to install CCSM and Simple CCSM
[04:00] <paultag> MrAnthrope: yes, sudo apt-get install compiz-fusion-plugins-extra
[04:00] <paultag> MrAnthrope: that'll add in your extra plugins -- they split up after 9.10 iirc
[04:00] <MrAnthrope> Oh that's how I got it. Forgot to install ubuntu tweak. I just built this box this morning :) :) :)
[04:01] <JackyAlcine> MrAnthrope: :D that's the first thing I download to a fresh install.  What were they THINKING?!
[04:02] <paultag> dude, it looks good!
[04:02] <IAmNotThatGuy> MrAnthrope, you ll get it added to settings-> preferences-> compizconfig settings manager
[04:03] <MrAnthrope> Yeah I remembered it was in there before but forgot how to get it in there heh.
[04:03] <MrAnthrope> Can someone also remind me how to install ubuntu-tweak?
[04:03] <JackyAlcine> MrAnthrope: the website!
[04:03] <JackyAlcine> lo
[04:03] <JackyAlcine> *lol
[04:03] <MrAnthrope> Oh noes.
[04:04] <MrAnthrope> I don't remember this at all. Disastrous.
[04:04] <JackyAlcine> Because you had to do it once :D
[04:04] <MrAnthrope> lol right
[04:04] <MrAnthrope> I'll remember the third time.
[04:05] <JackyAlcine> :D
[04:05] <MrAnthrope> Hm. Problem. my applications aren't showing up on my panel lol. I just minimized Chrome and it's gone o.o
[04:06] <MrAnthrope> ha. I deleted the window list. Silly me!
[04:13] <johnny77> paultag: Wow, there is a lot to the themes.
[04:14] <paultag> johnny77: yeah, there really is
[04:15] <MrAnthrope> Does anyone know what CCSM calls tooltip windows? I don't want effects on them and I can't use the grab tool to see the name lol
[04:15] <johnny77> paultag: I'm having trouble figuring out what each part is called.
[04:15] <MrAnthrope> I want window match to be all but tooltip.
[04:15] <paultag> johnny77: tbh I don't know much about openbox, I only know about fluxbox :)
[04:16] <johnny77> paultag: no big deal. I was just commenting... better call it a night.. talk to you later.
[04:16] <paultag> johnny77: rock on, man
[04:18] <MrAnthrope> oh. It seems it works on EVERYTHING if I just type class=
[04:22] <JackyAlcine> MrAnthrope: Yeah, I had to type in the name of the application manually.
[04:23] <MrAnthrope> I guess I'll live with tooltips beaming up. lol.
[04:23] <MrAnthrope> It's not changing color right now either which is weird. I'm going to restart. And try to find my other HDD in bios...
[06:11] <evalyn> hi
[06:11] <evalyn> i just connected thru irssi
[06:11] <IAmNotThatGuy> hi
[06:11] <IAmNotThatGuy> nice
[06:11] <evalyn> i was using xchat
[06:14] <bioterror> tomorrow telnet
[06:17] <evalyn> bioterror: what do telnet tomorrow?
[06:18] <evalyn> not sure what to do with telnet but I can try that
[06:18] <evalyn> bioterror: thanks for idea. I want to try and learn something each day if possible
[06:18] <bioterror> heh, you can do things with telnet
[06:18] <evalyn> bioterror: like what?
[06:18] <bioterror> but its rather uncomfortable for ircing
[06:19] <bioterror> evalyn, connect to different ports and see what they tells you
[06:19] <evalyn> bioterror: how to do that? ports?
[06:19] <evalyn> ???
[06:20] <bioterror> telnet ip port
[06:20] <evalyn> i have to install telnet from the synpatic pak mgr i guess
[06:21] <bioterror> if you need it
[06:21] <bioterror> but i was joking :D
[06:21] <bioterror> as ircing with telnet requires talking with server, at least it used to
[06:21] <bioterror> you had to answer to server when it pinged you
[06:22] <evalyn> o
[06:22] <evalyn> smile
[06:22] <bioterror> thats why mIRC used to prompt ping pong
[06:22] <evalyn> software center says telnet is installed
[06:22] <evalyn> the telnet client
[06:22] <evalyn> but lots of other telnet stuff in there too.
[06:22] <evalyn> putty ssh client
[06:22] <evalyn> qterm
[06:22] <evalyn> fqterm
[06:23] <evalyn> the telnet server
[06:23] <evalyn> i don't know these.
[06:23] <bioterror> terminal and telnet
[06:23] <bioterror> all you need
[06:23] <evalyn> kk
[06:24] <evalyn> i did irssi today because cprofitt says he uses this one
[06:24] <evalyn> i wanted to see
[06:24] <evalyn> I have to learn commands to use this one so wil prolly go to xchat
[06:24] <evalyn> hahahahaha
[06:24] <evalyn> i am not that smart
[06:25] <evalyn> hahahaha
[06:25] <evalyn> speaking of? what is command to exit this
[06:32] <egossett> i am in xchat now
[06:33] <egossett> this is easier for me
[07:16] <MrAnthrope> Uhg. What is the terminal command to reset screen resolution?
[07:20] <bioterror> xrandr
[07:20] <IAmNotThatGuy> MrAnthrope, for more details, look http://www.ubuntugeek.com/how-to-adjust-screen-resolution-on-ubuntu.html
[07:21] <IAmNotThatGuy> bioterror, (:
[07:21] <MrAnthrope> Yes, how do I tell xrandr to set my screen resolution to 0?
[07:21] <MrAnthrope> (it will revert to default)
[07:23] <MrAnthrope> xrandr -s 0 :D
[07:23] <MrAnthrope> thank you!
[10:11] <Silver_Fox_> Hello.
[13:50] <ChrisDruif> Does someone know which modded kernel would the most awesome? :P
[13:53] <ikt> the one that comes with free beer?
[13:54] <ChrisDruif> Indeed it does O:-)
[15:13] <Daniel0108> hi :)
[15:21] <ikt> heya Daniel0108 :)
[15:28] <Daniel0108> hi ikt :D
[15:51] <jermza> I'm still having trouble with my video exports from PitiVi
[15:51] <jermza> I made a quick video clip for my mate, who has Windows.  I simply exported the fle, choosing "mp4" as the extension.
[15:52] <ikt> can he open the file using vlc?
[15:52] <jermza> It played back fine on my PC, but it throws errors on 2 Windows machines that I've sent it to.
[15:52] <ikt> or is he using just the standard windows media player
[15:52] <jermza> VLC won't even open it.  It plays the audio, but not the video.
[15:53] <ikt> is it just a basic video?
[15:53] <ikt> it sounds like a video codec issue
[15:54] <jermza> A straight forward video cllip of a few seconds.
[15:55] <Daniel0108> jermza: I always render the videos made with PiTiVi in .ogg, then I convert them to mp4 and other extensions with Transmageddon
[15:55] <jermza> But shouud that be necessary>
[15:56] <jermza> PitiVi offers the export.... which doesn't work
[15:56] <jermza> As it is, UBuntu fails at all things video related.
[15:57] <paultag> jermza: did you install gstreamer?
[15:57] <paultag> jermza: we can't ship things that will make us go to jail
[15:57] <paultag> jermza: so you need to install them to avoid copyright issues
[15:57] <paultag> kthx, back to idling
[15:58] <jermza> gstreamer is already installed
[15:58] <paultag> jermza: there's no one gstreamer package
[15:58] <paultag> there's like 20
[15:58] <jermza> Which one must I install?
[15:58] <paultag> jermza: each has support for a different type of source file
[15:59] <paultag> jermza: not sure, check up on the descriptions
[15:59] <paultag> jermza: I use avis and oggs, myself
[15:59] <jermza> Everything with "gstreamer" is installed already.
[16:00] <paultag> it should be in gstreamer-plugins-bad
[16:00] <paultag> jermza: try it with vlc or mplayer or something
[16:00] <paultag> totem is a bit funy
[16:00] <paultag> funny
[16:00] <jermza> Hang on.... I can play the video fine
[16:01] <paultag> k, back to work
[16:01] <jermza> I made a video clip in Pitivi.
[16:01] <paultag> one love :)
[16:01] <jermza> Then rendered and saved as MP4
[16:01] <jermza> sent to my mate, who uses Windows
[16:01] <jermza> He can't play it.
[16:01] <jermza> I then tested it on another PC with Windows.  Also no luck.
[16:01] <paultag> jermza: file a bug with pitivi, or get the right codec for windows :)
[16:02] <jermza> VLC plays the audio, but not the video.
[16:02] <paultag> I've not used windows since 2005, so I have no idea
[16:02] <jermza> I'll try a different extension, then. :-(
[16:02] <ikt> If you've got some time grab openshot
[16:02] <paultag> jermza: mp4 sucks anyway, use avi ;)
[16:02] <paultag> +1 ikt
[16:02] <ikt> it's export is a lot more user friendly
[16:03] <paultag> *cough* *ffmpeg* *cough*
[16:03] <ikt> ^
[16:03] <jermza> Ha ha, MP4 is great.
[16:04] <jermza> It's the MP3 of video.
[16:04] <ikt> yeah
[16:06] <ikt> I just made a quick video in openshot then and exported as: web > youtube HD > 720 30p > high
[16:06] <ikt> and it works great on windows and ubuntu
[16:06] <jermza> Openshot?
[16:06] <jermza> I wonder why Ubuntu doesn't ship with Openshot.
[16:09] <paultag> jermza: we need to fit the selection on a 700 meg ISO, so we trade off big applications. It's usually how often it's size over how popular it is
[16:10] <paultag> jermza: so since no one really uses openshot when you compare it to stuff like Firefox, or EoG, it does not make it into the defaults
[16:11] <paultag> and we change it often -- F-Stop is being replaced with Shotwell this cycle
[17:26]  * hajour is having diner now
[18:31] <Daniel0108> hi
[18:32] <ikt> heya Daniel0108 :)
[18:32] <Daniel0108> hi ikt :)
[19:47] <JackyAlcine> I need help.
[19:47] <JackyAlcine> So my computer had froze one day.
[19:47] <cprofitt> hey JackyAlcine
[19:47] <JackyAlcine> And I decided, "Hey, let me just cut the power and restart."
[19:47] <JackyAlcine> So I did that.
[19:47] <JackyAlcine> And I had an issue with grub.
[19:47] <JackyAlcine> So I figured, "Okay, LiveCD"
[19:47] <JackyAlcine> I installed Maverick-Notebook 10.10 onto a USB key.
[19:48] <JackyAlcine> hey cprofitt
[19:48] <JackyAlcine> And tried fixing it there.
[19:48] <JackyAlcine> Then it booted with a kernel error.
[19:48] <JackyAlcine> I checked the drive's system and I couldn't find any kernels. >_< It was running 2.6.35-24 last time I remembered.
[19:49] <cprofitt> you current system is in this state?
[19:49] <JackyAlcine> Well, right now, there is *no* system.
[19:50] <cprofitt> so you are trying to fix it right now...
[19:51] <cprofitt> I think you might have had a disk corruption of some sort if the kernel just went away... I might try using that live CD to check the disk
[19:55] <JackyAlcine> I ran 'sudo fsck /dev/sda' and I got this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/554145/
[19:56] <cprofitt> if you use the disk utility are you able to read smart data?
[19:56] <JackyAlcine> so I ran 'sudo e2fsck -b 8193 /dev/sda' and I got this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/554146/
[19:56] <JackyAlcine> cprofitt: No, it says that it isn't supported.
[19:57] <cprofitt> ouch...
[19:57] <cprofitt> how old is the drive?
[19:57] <cprofitt> is it an actual hard drive?
[20:00] <JackyAlcine> No, it's an external USB hard drive, 320 GB, Seagate Portable; and it showed SmartData before.
[20:01] <JackyAlcine> And it's recent, a new drive, like about a month and a half old. =/
[20:01] <cprofitt> ok -- external usb would not support it
[20:01] <cprofitt> if you took it out and attached it -- you might get data
[20:02] <cprofitt> oooh... it did show smart before?
[20:02] <cprofitt> you may have a drive failure then
[20:02] <cprofitt> this link may help thought
[20:02] <cprofitt> http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=43534
[20:03] <cprofitt> I am not used to uSB drives showing smart data though
[20:03] <cprofitt> I usually have to attach them to the controller
[20:12] <JackyAlcine> >_<
[20:12] <JackyAlcine> Noo. I need cprofitt
[20:18] <ikt> :(
[20:20] <JackyAlcine> I can't reformat this drive.
[20:20] <ikt> why not?
[20:20] <JackyAlcine> I think it failed, it used to show SmartData but now it doesn't.
[20:21] <ikt> hrmm
[20:22] <ikt> and you said you are unable to take the drive out of the casing?
[20:22] <JackyAlcine> It's an external USB hard drive. Unfortunately, I made it my primary harddisk.
[20:23] <ikt> bugger :/
[20:24] <ikt> are you able to attach to another system, and use the disk utility on it there?
[20:25] <JackyAlcine> I'm doing that now, via a LiveCD.
[20:25] <JackyAlcine> I'm going through the forums as well.
[20:27] <ikt> are you able to dd it?
[20:30] <JackyAlcine> No, I'll try.
[20:31] <JackyAlcine> I normally don't have this issues.
[20:31] <JackyAlcine> I don't know what to do with 'dd'.
[20:32] <JackyAlcine> ikt ^^
[20:32] <ikt> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dd_%28Unix%29
[20:32] <ikt> has a lot of the commands
[20:33] <ikt> ideally you want to try and wipe the drive
[20:33] <ikt> I assume then, when you take it back out and plug it back in, it should appear as a brand new drive
[20:35] <JackyAlcine> Yup, ikt, that's what I'm aiming for.
[20:37] <JackyAlcine> ikt, sorry for being a bugger, but it gave me this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/554156/
[20:37] <ikt> you're not being a bugger :D
[20:37] <ikt> hrmm it's a strange error
[20:38] <geirha> dd will write until the output file runs out of space
[20:39] <geirha> ... unless you set a count
[20:40] <ikt> if you do the next command, to "To make sure that the drive is really zeroed out"
[20:43] <ikt> but that looks right, like there wasn't a lot of data on there as well, as it only took 15 seconds to wipe the drive
[20:44] <JackyAlcine> That makes no sense, there's 150 Gbs of space used.
[20:44] <JackyAlcine> And it outputted this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/554159/
[20:44] <ikt> the hard drive is 100% full?
[20:45] <JackyAlcine> No, it was 50%
[20:46] <ikt> if you check
[20:46] <ikt> sudo fdisk -l
[20:46] <ikt> to make sure there's no other partitions
[20:46] <ikt> but dd should have wiped the whole drive
[20:47] <ikt> from this angle it looks like borked drive :/
[20:48] <JackyAlcine> Nothing's popping up.
[20:48] <JackyAlcine> Like it outputs nothing.
[20:48] <ikt> o_O
[20:49] <ikt> that's about the limit of my technical knowledge :<
[20:49] <ikt> sorry I can't help you more :(
[20:49] <JackyAlcine> Thanks, ikt. You've taught me enough though, maybe I can tinker with it and see if I can at least format part of it.
[20:51] <ikt> :))
[21:17] <smiley__> i have something to ask
[21:17] <ibuclaw> !ask | smiley__
[21:17] <ubot2> smiley__: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)
[21:17] <ibuclaw> :D
[21:18] <smiley__> after i updated the system with software manager,i now have two listings for ubuntu in the grub menu,why ?
[21:19] <ibuclaw> smiley__, 2 kernels
[21:19] <ikt> ^
[21:20] <ibuclaw> revision updates to kernels get installed in the same directory
[21:21] <smiley__> so one is newer that the other,correct ?
[21:21] <ibuclaw> minor/major updates go into new directories, and part of the upgrade process in kernel updates is to reconfigure grub for any changes made. And it picks up that there are 2 installed.
[21:21] <ibuclaw> one current, the other obsolete.
[21:22] <ibuclaw> of course, you can't just remove the obsolete one there and then, because your still running on the old one (need to reboot to switch :)
[21:22] <smiley__> I see,well my system seems faster..
[21:23] <smiley__> so i can boot into the old one or the new one,correct ?
[21:23] <ibuclaw> smiley__, yeah
[21:23] <smiley__> so if something dont run with the new kernel,it might with the old one..
[21:23] <smiley__> cool
[21:23] <ibuclaw> Though if the new one functions ok. You should remove the old one in due time. :)
[21:24] <komputes> Hey guys can you mark this bug as affecting you: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-media/+bug/324700
[21:24] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 324700 in gnome-media (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "gnome-volume-control missing ability to customize session sound effects theme (affects: 41) (dups: 1) (heat: 226)" [Medium,Triaged]
[21:24] <smiley__> i also have mint insatlled
[21:24] <smiley__> and windows xp
[21:24] <JackyAlcine> komputes: that does effect me, and probably the world.
[21:24] <ibuclaw> smiley__, more like: if something goes wrong in the kernel update (ie: a working driver needed for your system no longer functions) then you can at least boot the old kernel where it is fine.
[21:25] <komputes> JackyAlcine: thanks for the support :)
[21:25] <ibuclaw> go komputes go!
[21:25]  * ibuclaw gives komputes support
[21:25] <holstein> komputes: is that wishlist?
[21:25] <komputes> holstein: nope, triaged, and enough people backing it. I'll be presenting it to DX
[21:26] <komputes> cheers ibuclaw
[21:26] <smiley__> cool,i was thinking of installing another ubuntu,to play with,but i dont want to break anything
[21:26] <komputes> smiley__: virtualbox
[21:27] <smiley__> i dont know how many ubuntus you can install..
[21:27] <JackyAlcine> ChrisDruif: Thanks for the wiki rehaul! :DF
[21:27] <JackyAlcine> *:D
[21:27]  * ibuclaw thinks VBox sux
[21:27] <JackyAlcine> smiley__: You can install as many as you please..
[21:27] <ibuclaw> KVM :~)
[21:27] <ChrisDruif> Your welcome :)
[21:27] <ChrisDruif> Great that you like it :D
[21:27] <komputes> ibuclaw: kvm is nice, but new users find VB simple
[21:28] <smiley__> cool,and it wont break any of the other os's ?
[21:28] <ibuclaw> smiley__, I assume you have an extended partition on your disk?
[21:29] <ChrisDruif> JackyAlcine: I've you've got a smaller picture, I could add it as well :) It's really big the one you've got now :)
[21:29] <smiley__> well i have windows xp,then i installed ubuntu,then i installed Linux Mint...
[21:29] <JackyAlcine> I do, but I'll attach it in a few then, after I repair my system.
[21:30] <smiley__> so right now i have xp ubuntu,and mint installed
[21:30] <ibuclaw> smiley__, maybe yes, maybe no then...
[21:30] <smiley__> i see
[21:30] <ibuclaw> smiley__, you do know that hard drives are limited to 4 primary partitions, right?
[21:30] <smiley__> yes
[21:31] <ibuclaw> kk :)
[21:31] <ibuclaw> smiley__, btw, if you go into System->Admin->Synaptic.
[21:32] <ibuclaw> See the 'Status' button in the bottom left
[21:32] <ibuclaw> and select 'Installed (local or obsolete)'
[21:32] <ibuclaw> you should be able to see the obsolete Ubuntu kernels there, and remove -> purge them
[21:34] <smiley__> ok,i see,thanks
[21:34] <smiley__> i love linux
[21:34] <smiley__> now if i just had drivers for my tv tuner i would delete windows,lol
[21:35] <ibuclaw> who needs a tvtuner when you have bbc iplayer. :~)
[21:37] <ChrisDruif> It's alright JackyAlcine :)
[21:38] <smiley__> well thanks for your help.:)
[21:50] <BR> Ok im trying to install a game but when it asks for disk two and i unhide the drive and I click ok it doesnt do anything. Can anyone help.
[21:55] <aveilleux> BR: You using WINE/PlayOnLinux?
[21:57] <JackyAlcine> *sigh*
[21:57] <JackyAlcine> I think this hard drive's "fi done".
[21:57] <raubvogel> Is Should-Start: in a /etc/init.d honored if the script is manually started?
[22:02] <BR> wine
[22:05] <UndiFineD> JackyAlcine: is it your laptop ?
[22:05] <JackyAlcine> UndiFineD! Hey!
[22:05] <JackyAlcine> And no, it's the external drive connected to it; the other drive that was in is already gone.
[22:06] <UndiFineD> you have NO luck with hardware at all
[22:06] <BR> and I have tried everything, winehq, wiki, even copied files to hd now im trying to do it from an iso from my hd
[22:06] <JackyAlcine> I really don't, lol.
[22:06] <aveilleux> BR: After putting in the second disc you have to tell WINE to re-read all drives. Applications > Wine > Configure WINE > Drives tab > Autodetect button
[22:09] <BR> ok Ill check it and see
[22:20] <JackyAlcine> The best I can do for my drive is to zero-bit and push the sectors that are corrupt to be used as swap. That way, I can turn swap off and just use the rest of the drive.
[22:21] <JackyAlcine> >_< And this drive cost me $120, I haven't any more money to buy a replacement.
[22:21] <JackyAlcine> I might be using my USB stick as a system.. =/
[22:23] <ChrisDruif> Haven't you got a warranty on that drive? :-/
[22:26] <JackyAlcine> I think I do.
[22:27] <ChrisDruif> Can't you just demand a new one then?
[22:32] <BR> still didnt work
[22:36] <BR> went to the config and click auto detect apply close then click ok in the installer but it does nothing
[23:09] <JackyAlcine> So I want to intergrate an idea to Ubuntu.
[23:09] <JackyAlcine> I'll put it up on brainstorm.ubuntu.com in a few.
[23:09] <JackyAlcine> But just to get it out there..
[23:10] <JackyAlcine> How about an intergrated IRC client that links not only according to region (#ubuntu-us-ny, #ubuntu-us-ca)
[23:10] <JackyAlcine> But like also to the topic the user needs? Live support!
[23:10] <JackyAlcine> We could have teams who troll in channels until someone asks for help or what not.
[23:10] <holstein> i think you get dumped into #ubuntu now
[23:11] <JackyAlcine> O.o
[23:11] <JackyAlcine> Me?
[23:11] <holstein> and i guess the idea is
[23:11] <holstein> you can get linked where ever from there
[23:11] <holstein> JackyAlcine: the royal 'you'
[23:11] <holstein> ;)
[23:11] <holstein> from ubuntu
[23:11] <JackyAlcine> Hmmmm.
[23:11] <holstein> maybe they stopped doing that
[23:11] <holstein> JackyAlcine: good idea
[23:12] <JackyAlcine> I'll start it up. :D
[23:13] <Red-Raven> hey.
[23:13] <holstein> Red-Raven: o/
[23:13] <holstein> going well?
[23:14] <Red-Raven> yah. except nuatalus (sp?) is freaking out.
[23:14] <aveilleux> Red-Raven: Nautilus
[23:14] <Red-Raven> thx.
[23:14] <holstein> show it who's boss
[23:15] <Red-Raven> anyways, the veiw setting got screwed up. i didn't change them. now its all white and looks...old-ish.
[23:15] <holstein> theme?
[23:15] <holstein> maybe
[23:16] <Red-Raven> yah. checked it. the theme is dusty, which is what i've had it on for a while.
[23:16] <holstein> hmmm
[23:17] <Red-Raven> besides settings>prefs>appearance, are there any other things that could change it?
[23:17] <holstein> im sure there is
[23:17] <Red-Raven> i have compiz. maybe those settings...
[23:17] <holstein> nothing obvious that i can think of though
[23:18] <holstein> Red-Raven: i wouldnt think compiz
[23:18] <Red-Raven> yah didn't see anything obvious there.
[23:19] <holstein> Red-Raven: you could look in .nautilus
[23:19] <holstein> in your home dir
[23:19] <holstein> not sure
[23:30] <Red-Raven> its not in /.
[23:31] <holstein> /home/you/.nautilus
[23:31] <holstein> ~/.nautilus
[23:36] <Red-Raven> is there a command to open the current directory while in terminal?
[23:37] <Red-Raven> like if i say "cd desktop", is there a command to open desktop in nautilus?
[23:37] <aveilleux> Red-Raven: nautilus .
[23:37] <aveilleux> Red-Raven: Include the period
[23:38] <Red-Raven> ok. it worked, but there's nothing in it.
[23:38] <aveilleux> Red-Raven: Then there's nothing on your Desktop?
[23:38] <Red-Raven> no in nautilus/
[23:38] <Red-Raven> .*
[23:39] <holstein> mine is empty too
[23:39] <aveilleux> Red-Raven: Yes your desktop is usually empty.
[23:39] <holstein> not sure what is suppose to be in there
[23:39] <holstein> just a good place to look
[23:39] <Red-Raven> ok.
[23:39] <holstein> when things go funky
[23:39] <holstein> Red-Raven: take a screenshot if you want
[23:39] <holstein> use imagebin
[23:40] <holstein> maybe someone will know
[23:41] <ChrisDruif> Hmmm...desktop issues in Nautilus?
[23:42] <Red-Raven> no. nautilus's theme changed and i didn't do that myself.
[23:42] <Red-Raven> my .nautilus file was empty though.
[23:43] <ChrisDruif> Alright..
[23:43] <ChrisDruif> Sorry...can't help :)
[23:44] <holstein> Red-Raven: there is a suggestion here
[23:44] <holstein> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1650098
[23:45] <holstein> to remove ~/.gconf/apps/nautilus
[23:47] <Red-Raven> thx.
[23:48] <Red-Raven> i hate not seeing if it worked. but no output=it worked right?
[23:48] <aveilleux> Red-Raven: Yes
[23:49] <Red-Raven> simple enough.
[23:52] <Red-Raven> brb.


[14:21] <Pendulum> hiya MichelleQ1
[14:21] <Pendulum> do you have time for a quick chat now?
[14:21] <Pendulum> (or, really in 5 minutes)
[14:37] <MichelleQ1> Pendulum: yup, whenever
[14:37] <MichelleQ1> :D
[17:31] <charlie-tca> New wiki design is in place for https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility - Warning: Orange banner
[17:32] <Pendulum> yeah, not great on my eyes, but not horrid
[17:32] <charlie-tca> AlanBell: looks like they ignored everything suggested
[17:32] <Pendulum> they've muted some of the orange which helps me. it's not so bright
[17:33] <Pendulum> otherwise, yes I think they've ignored everything suggested
[17:35] <AlanBell> they have ignored a lot of stuff, but not quite all of it
[17:36] <AlanBell> and it is more than suggested, it was stuff coded up and offered in a bzr branch
[17:36] <AlanBell> and they have not installed the simple mente theme
[17:36]  * AlanBell is mildly irritated
[17:36] <charlie-tca> Worse yet; can't read links on Xubuntu wiki now. The orange link on blue header blurs too much
[17:37] <Pendulum> i've just switched to the ubuntu theme in my preferences
[17:37] <Pendulum> not great, but better than what's there now
[17:40] <charlie-tca> yes, unfortunately, you must login to make that work. Anyone that really needs it may not be able to even see the login button
[17:42] <Pendulum> yeah
[17:47] <AlanBell> jono: I have made some fairly clear offers of help regarding the wiki and accessibility, including patches, but they don't seem to be welcome
[17:48] <AlanBell> I am running out of places to make offers of help and to express my mild irritation at the whole thing
[17:48] <AlanBell> e.g. https://lists.canonical.com/archives/ubuntu-website/2010-October/001064.html
[17:48] <jono> AlanBell, offers to who?
[17:48] <AlanBell> newz2000 and in bug reports on launchpad and on the ubuntu-website mailing list
[17:49] <charlie-tca> I think I reached my limit after yesterday
[17:51] <AlanBell> jono: and in #canonical-sysadmin a number of times
[17:52] <jono> AlanBell, hmmm, what was the reason for the rejection of help?
[17:52] <Pendulum> jono: they don't give any. they just don't respond as far as I can tell
[17:52] <AlanBell> I have no idea
[17:52] <jono> hmmm
[17:52] <jono> thats not acceptable
[17:52] <Pendulum> jono: shall we add this to our call agenda?
[17:52] <jono> AlanBell, can you mail me with a summary of what has happened so far and I will look into next week
[17:53] <jono> Pendulum, we can cover it, sure
[17:53] <AlanBell> it just went live this afternoon
[17:53] <AlanBell> will do jono, thanks
[17:53] <jono> AlanBell, sorry for the negative experience
[17:53] <jono> I will do my best to get this rectified
[17:53] <jono> and thanks for the offers of help
[17:53] <UndiFineD> jono :) http://gizmo.do/9AB4wl
[17:54] <jono> UndiFineD, heh, I saw that
[17:54] <UndiFineD> thanks man
[17:54] <Pendulum> jono: 5 minutes?
[17:55] <jono> Pendulum, yup
[17:55] <jono> Pendulum, msg me your phone number to call
[17:56] <Pendulum> done
[18:01] <jono> Pendulum, all set?
[18:01] <Pendulum> yep
[18:15] <Pendulum> charlie-tca: are you around?
[18:15] <charlie-tca> only for a minute.
[18:16] <jono> charlie-tca, would you be free to join our call now for a few mins?
[18:16] <jono> just to talk through some plans
[18:16] <jono> should only be five mins or so
[18:16] <charlie-tca> okay
[18:16] <jono> charlie-tca, can you message me your phone number?
[18:16] <jono> and I will dial you in
[18:16] <jono> or skype id
[18:17] <charlie-tca> I don't have skype
[20:50] <mhall119> charlie-tca: you there?
[22:22] <AlanBell> having a rather more productive conversation than before in #ubuntu-website now
[22:24] <UndiFineD> great AlanBell
[22:36] <Pendulum> AlanBell: that's wonderful!


[13:54] <zequence> pulseaudio-module-jack was not installed in our live ISO
[13:58] <zequence> I'll have a look tonight and try get changes in before tomorrow
[14:05] <zequence> Seems like the live ISO might be missing a few packages actually
[15:05] <zequence> Happened a month ago, I hadn't noticed
[15:05] <zequence> langasek has made a change to the update script
[15:07] <zequence> The update script for ubuntustudio-meta, that is
[15:20] <zequence> I've forgotten to add ubuntustudio-audio-core as a real package, so much of our core packages were never installed
[15:23] <zequence> I really need to get a good alert going on the "changed" mail list. Or, people need to let us know when they changed something that actually changes things for us
[15:24] <zequence> bug 1444535
[15:34] <micahg> when the seeds change, a meta upload is usually required as well (exceptions are generally things that are image only and not reflected in the archive)
[15:36] <zequence> micahg: Seems like our update.cfg hadn't been updated and we were basing on old seeds
[15:36] <zequence> langasek changed that, but in the process we lost a few packages that I had put in a new seed, which I had not made a package of yet
[15:36] <zequence> So, my mistake ultimately
[15:38] <micahg> ah, ok


[00:35] <digitech> hello, I booted my ubuntu 11.04 machine today and my unity bar is gone? how do i get it back
[02:29] <digitech> when will 11.04 be released like midnight?
[02:32] <digitech> anyone?
[02:32] <zenrox> 1:00 utc
[02:32] <digitech> thanks
[02:35] <digitech> technically it should be available already
[02:35] <digitech> ?
[02:35] <digitech> right>?
[02:36] <zenrox> http://release-blog.ubuntu.com/ <--this is what you need to be watching
[02:36] <zenrox> or go to #ubuntu-release-party
[02:37] <digitech> well u said 1:00 utc and right now it is 1:37 utc
[02:37] <zenrox> that is when it is usualy out unless your in aussie land
[02:37] <zenrox> witch is 18+hrs lator
[02:38] <digitech> well.....wtf lol
[02:38] <digitech> im in chicago but i know utc time
[02:38] <digitech> and i did a time conversion
[02:38] <digitech> it should already be released
[02:38] <zenrox> i am in washington state i am in pst
[02:39] <digitech> central here
[02:39] <zenrox> hmm
[02:39] <zenrox> just have to wate pacently
[02:40] <zenrox> i am hanging out at the aformentiond channel and playing with the bot thare
[02:40] <zenrox> quite a good distraction
[02:55] <FTMichael> What time of day do releases tend to come out? I never remember, but I remember I can never get them first thing in the morning like I want to.
[02:55]  * FTMichael scrolls up
[02:56] <FTMichael> Sorry, didn't realise that was just discussed :P
[02:57] <zenrox> naw its ok
[02:57]  * FTMichael likes shiny releases.
[03:16] <mar7ar> hi everybody
[03:16] <zenrox> hello
[03:17] <mar7ar> i have a big problem
[03:17] <zenrox> shure ask away
[03:18] <mar7ar> i`have typed by error apt-get remove libusb*
[03:18] <mar7ar> then every thing is gone
[03:19] <zenrox> then type sudo apt-get install libusb*
[03:19] <zenrox> or do sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop
[03:19] <zenrox> last one is better
[03:20] <mar7ar> the problem is that all dependant drivers are gone
[03:20] <mar7ar> even cd driver
[03:21] <zenrox> ubuntu-desktop is a package that will get all the packages you had when you first got it installed
[03:22] <mar7ar> but could this result to loosing my other installed package
[03:22] <mar7ar> ?
[03:23] <zenrox> posabley
[03:23] <mar7ar> ah i`have forgotten to mention it
[03:24] <mar7ar> internet driver is ruined
[03:24] <mar7ar> deleted
[03:24] <zenrox> then time to reinstall
[03:25] <mar7ar> there is also a command called apt-cdrom that add the cd package to sourcelist
[03:26] <zenrox> ya you can do that you could just reinstall on top with out formating the drives
[03:27] <mar7ar> but how
[03:27] <zenrox> crap i dont rember how
[03:27] <zenrox> but you could ask in #ubuntu
[03:28] <mar7ar> logically it must have such solution
[03:28] <mar7ar> like in windows
[03:30] <zenrox> yep
[03:30] <zenrox> it does
[03:30] <zenrox> i just dont rember it
[03:32] <mar7ar> thx
[03:33] <zenrox> n/p
[03:35] <mar7ar> by the way how could someone dill with this big number of users in ubuntu channel
[03:35] <zenrox> dill?
[03:35] <mar7ar> there are over 1500 users
[03:35] <mar7ar> deal
[03:36] <zenrox> ya that is normal if some one says thay can help you tell them to msg you  so you can have a 1 on 1 so to speek
[03:36] <mar7ar> i mean
[03:36] <mar7ar> ok
[03:37] <mar7ar> i got it
[03:37] <mar7ar> thnx one more time
[14:25] <FTMichael> Anyone updated by running update-manager -d and definitely got the final release, not the beta?
[14:26] <Pici> FTMichael: oneiric isn't available anywhere yet, so you should still get natty.
[14:26] <FTMichael> :P I meant Natty
[14:26] <Pici> Well the -d switch is for upgrading to the development release.
[14:27] <FTMichael> But just running update-manager doesn't tell me Natty's available
[14:27] <Pici> Make sure that you don't have it set to notify you for LTS releases only.
[14:27] <FTMichael> Just retried - it's there now. :)
[15:56] <tim__> hiya! anyone who could point me in a good direction to solve the trackpad problem with an hp mini 210? can't use two fingers due to jumpy pointer (aka no selecting anything with trackpad, no dragging, no fun)
[15:56] <tim__> using google is just too confusing with this, ive tried synaptics and all that but still no good solution found
[15:58] <zenrox> search ubuntuforums.org
[16:02] <tim__> done that, there's a few solutions on there but nothing seems to work. and now with 11.04 most issues have been dealth with except for that one, so i thought maybe new solutions would've popped up already.
[16:04] <tim__> will look further, thanks though
[18:22] <FTMichael> Unity question - my messaging menu doesn't have anything in it but 'Mail' (Evolution) and Ubuntu One. I want to add Pidgin but can't figure out how.
[18:25] <zenrox> FTMichael, install pidgin
[18:25] <FTMichael> I already have Pidgin.
[18:25] <zenrox> or make shure you have some of the other addons for pidgin
[18:26] <FTMichael> Which addon do I need to make it work? :P
[18:26] <zenrox> let me look
[18:27] <zenrox> did it install pidgin-libnotify
[18:27] <FTMichael> It certainly should have done. I've had Pidgin for ages. Let me look
[18:27] <FTMichael> wtf, no, libnotify isn't there. one sec
[18:28] <FTMichael> installed. Should I restart Pidgin? Restart Unity?
[18:28] <zenrox> restart pidgin
[18:28] <FTMichael> right-o
[18:29] <zenrox> so??
[18:29] <FTMichael> Nope.
[18:29] <zenrox> ok just log out log back it
[18:29] <zenrox> in
[18:30] <FTMichael> okay
[18:30] <zenrox> that might fix it cause its listed in mine
[18:31] <FTMichael> nope.
[18:31] <zenrox> hmm
[18:31] <FTMichael> now it has Mail, Compose New Message, and Contacts.
[18:31] <zenrox> it is listed in mime bolth in unity and xubuntu
[18:31] <FTMichael> all of which are Evolution
[18:32] <zenrox> i even have xchat listed thare
[18:32] <FTMichael> :-/
[18:34] <FTMichael> Got Gmail Notifier to show up there, which is something
[18:35] <zenrox> i have gwibber (listed as brodcast)
[18:35] <zenrox> and the evo crap
[18:36] <FTMichael> I don't have Gwibber installed which I presume is why it's not listed there either
[18:38] <zenrox> welp i am outie gota take the wife to her school
[18:39] <FTMichael> have fun
[18:39] <FTMichael> thanks for the help
[19:17]  * darkmatter stuffs a used sock in zenrox mouth :O
[20:07]  * zenrox grabes darkmatter's neck and farts close to his nose
[22:20] <mmiller235> Does anyone know why the ubuntu theme engine crashes whenever gnome OR unity runs in virtualbox?
[22:48] <Joeb454> mmiller235: probably the virtualbox graphics drivers, at a guess
[22:48] <Joeb454> more than that I'd have no idea
[22:50] <mmiller235> Joeb454 okay I disabled those and it sort of works except that the drop shadows are all blotchy
[22:50] <mmiller235> also all audio is running at double speed
[22:50] <Joeb454> mmiller235: not sure about the audio, but this might help for your graphics
[22:50] <Joeb454> http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2011/04/21/ubuntu-natty-in-virtualbox-with-unity/
[22:53] <mmiller235> Joeb454 would you happen to know how to uninstall the regular guest additions
[22:53] <mmiller235> Joeb454 apparently according to that link you gave me, the regular guest additions suck and fail at life
[22:54] <Joeb454> I would not have the faintest of ideas, unless they are removable via apt, sorry
[22:56] <mmiller235> Joeb454 are the ose additions available in apt?
[22:59] <Joeb454> mmiller235: try running apt-cache search virtualbox-ose
[23:00] <mmiller235> found it
[23:09] <mmiller235> Joeb454 okay, I tried what that article said and the only difference is, now the theme engine is craashing on a system running the open source edition guest additions
[23:09] <Joeb454> >.< Sorry mmiller235, that's the only guess I could take at why it might not be working
[23:09] <mmiller235> i know, thanks for trying
[23:10] <mmiller235> what really pisses me off is, ubuntu has NEVER worked in virtualbox for me
[23:10] <Joeb454> it's worked for me plenty of times, but I never need to run compiz in a virtual machine, so maybe that's why
[23:10] <Joeb454> compiz is required to run Unity, which makes it more difficult for VM's
[23:10] <mmiller235> Joeb454 it happens even when I disable all the 3d effects
[23:10] <mmiller235> it happens in gnome classic as well
[23:10] <Joeb454> yeah ok, that is odd
[23:10] <Joeb454> not sure why that would be
[23:11] <mmiller235> no matter what, as soon as either gnome or unity launches, it switches to "ugly" mode within a minute
[23:13] <mmiller235> I give up
[23:14] <mmiller235> virtualbox is hopeless
[23:14] <mmiller235> it used to be good back when innotek owned the project
[23:15] <Joeb454> I only really use it to host server versions of ubuntu for development, so it's not too bad for me
[23:16] <Joeb454> I agree though, it does frustrate me a lot when I'm trying to use it with a desktop version
[23:16] <mmiller235> I could understand if it didn't work with the 3d stuff, but it isn't even working properly with the 2d stuff
[23:16] <mmiller235> its become a complete joke
[23:17] <mmiller235> the problem is, Parallels (which DOES support 3D in ubuntu guests) won't have support for 11.04 for a few months


[00:45] <bryce> superm1, there is a script which automatically moves bugs from 'xorg' to other packages.  It just makes guesses and sometimes is wrong.  If you set the importance, or assign the bug, or set status to triaged, the script will ignore the bug.
[00:46] <bryce> superm1, perhaps I should make the script check for 'failsafe' in the title too.  /me todo's
[00:46] <superm1> bryce, ah i figured it was something like that.  i dont like to triage or assign other teams bugs even if i have permissions too as then i dont know that the right eyes get to see them
[00:46] <superm1> and i dont trust that my opinion of what the priority should be is what the team would agree on
[00:55] <bryce> understood, just be aware that bugs filed against xorg are volatile since that's our incoming queue for all X issues
[00:55] <bryce> superm1, I've updated the script to leave bugs with titles including (failsafe|please|depend|apport) alone
[00:56] <superm1> cool okay
[04:35] <bryce> tjaalton, I notice we have 104_nvidia_autodetect.patch and 105_fglrx_autodetect.patch present in xorg-server but disabled in series, and no mention of them in changelog.  Do you recall what the status of these is?
[05:08] <superm1> bryce, if i am to recall correctly, there is a problem with them when an xorg.conf is present
[05:09] <bryce> ah
[05:09] <bryce> ok, sounds like something we could look at as part of that blueprint
[05:09] <superm1> but sorting out those issues should definitely be something to mention in that blueprint
[05:10] <superm1> could you by chance assemble a karmic PPA that we can have with them enabled for a quick test so we can evaluate definitively what's missing?
[05:10] <superm1>  /broke
[05:12] <bryce> sure
[05:13] <bryce> btw, presently I'm trying to draft up a test plan for the proprietary drivers...  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Testing/ProprietaryDrivers
[05:13] <bryce> just started about 30 min ago; please toss out ideas for stuff/configurations/corner-cases worth testing
[05:14] <superm1> well i should probably throw out the idea that i had at you too then
[05:14] <superm1> what would you think about offering proprietary drivers via a ubiquity plugin that ran jockey?
[05:15] <superm1> just the ones that are on the media
[05:15] <superm1> so if you install from a DVD, you'll be able to install them all, but otherwise it would just be wireless
[05:15] <bryce> on the media?  do you mean on the dvd?
[05:16] <superm1> the idea comes more out of the horrible experience you have with the 10v where you dont have wireless after a fresh karmic install
[05:16] <superm1> but if you are installing from live media that contains fglrx or nvidia, those can be offered too
[05:16] <bryce> hmm
[05:16] <superm1> i haven't talked it over with evan and colin yet
[05:16] <bryce> I think that'd be a great idea
[05:16] <bryce> although I don't know all the ramifications and impact it'd have on ubiquity
[05:17] <bryce> yeah
[05:17] <bryce> well I'd have no concerns against it, I think it or something equivalent would be a good idea
[05:17] <superm1> hopefully it doesnt need to actually be part of ubiquity if mterry did all his ubiquity code for plugins right, it would be part of jockey
[05:17] <bryce> right
[05:18] <superm1> at some point during the week i'll bring it up with them, i'll see what session fits best
[05:19] <bryce> ok
[05:19] <superm1> i think that upgrade and fallback testing are both great things that are definitely undertested
[05:21]  * bryce nods
[05:22] <bryce> yeah that is the main motivation here; I figure the main root cause of the nvidia problem was that it was not tested fully enough
[05:23] <superm1> well i have a differing view.
[05:23] <bryce> I'd tested both drivers heavily at the point that I uploaded them, but they were fine at that point; they really needed re-testing after the upstart stuff
[05:23] <superm1> upstart was introduced very late in the cycle, and brought with it unforseen consequences that weren't fully hammered out for a long long time
[05:25] <bryce> sounds like our views are not so different actually ;-)
[05:25] <superm1> yeah :)
[05:25] <bryce> anyway, I want something that I can point testers to for any time we change something like that drastically
[05:26] <bryce> next time it could be a late kernel change, or some build system thing
[05:26] <superm1> Yeah
[05:26] <bryce> what I hope to do is hand this to our QA team and get them to own it
[05:27] <bryce> I figure they'll be able to do the testing much more reliably and rigorously than I could alone
[05:39] <bryce> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Testing/ProprietaryDrivers updated
[05:39]  * bryce --> dinner
[20:57] <tobi_> bryce_: I'm not able to find out, which patch would fix my problem. But it looks like there aren't that much fixes from intel 2.9.0 to 2.9.1. why don't you do a complete packport?
[21:01] <bryce_> tobi_, because the Ubuntu release managers do not allow complete version backports, just specific patch backports
[21:01] <bryce_> IOW, it would be rejected if I tried to put it through.
[21:01] <bryce_> (trust me, I've tried many times before)
[21:15] <tormod> tobi_, there are really few commits: one i830 fix, one uxa fix, one dvi revert fix.
[21:16] <tobi_> tormod: but I have no clue how to find out which patch is the on to fix my problem
[21:17] <tormod> tobi_, what is your problem?
 the version in 9.10 broke tho only winform mono app I use :(
[21:19] <tobi_> I have an mono winform application, and in that the text is white on white
[21:20] <tormod> and you know or suspect 2.9.1 to fit it?
[21:20] <tormod> *fix
[21:20] <tobi_> that was what I was told on #mono
	supertobi, , intel?
	yes
	driver bug.
	use intel 2.9.1
[21:24] <tobi_> the answer was so fast, that it sound like a well nown problem there
[21:24] <tobi_> apropos, you can test it with this app:
[21:24] <tobi_> http://code.google.com/p/rasterbator-ng/
[21:26] <bryce_> tormod, could only be the uxa fix,  yeah?
[21:28] <bryce_> it is a fix to http://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=24459
[21:28] <bryce_> tobi_, ^ is that your bug?
[21:33] <tobi_> not sure
[21:34] <tobi_> I think that's could be the bug
[21:36] <albert23> https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=549882
[21:37] <albert23> they confirm 2.9.1 works
[21:39] <tobi_> yes, that is at least my problem
[21:59] <bibinou> hi
[22:00] <bibinou> i'm no X wizard and I have a problem triaging a bug
[22:00] <bibinou> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/409640
[22:00] <bibinou> it seems to affect the "Xv Driver"
[23:04] <tormod> bryce_, sorry got busy. did tobi try xorg-edgers?
[23:06] <bryce_> tormod, sorry I got distracted as well
[23:06] <tormod> np :) I found his initial discussion on #intel-gfx
[23:07] <tormod> would have talked him into patching it himself but he ran away
[23:07] <bryce_> I'm heading out on vacation for the week soon (and will be heading to UDS after that) so probably won't be of much help
[23:07] <tormod> well have a nice time!
[23:07] <tormod> so no xorg updates in lucid then?
[23:07] <bryce_> as nice as a new baby will allow!
[23:08] <bryce_> yeah... was hoping to have done some work on it this week, but still dealing with -nvidia fallout
[23:08] <tormod> did you look at my mesa git history rewrite?
[23:08] <tormod> yeah proprietary drivers suck
[23:09] <bryce_> not yet, it's in the queue
[23:09] <bryce_> I'm unfortunately backed up with a bunch of requests to look at things...
[23:10] <bryce_> wife is not letting me work late to stay caught up any more ;-)
[23:11] <bryce_> looking at it now
[23:11] <tormod> well just hope we can get back to use git for next mesa version
[23:11] <tormod> I am just wondering if I should sync the non-debian/ stuff to the tarball
[23:12] <tormod> *from the tarball
[23:13] <bryce_> what's the non-debian stuff?
[23:14] <tormod> things outside the debian/ directory
[23:14] <bryce_> heh, I know that, I mean, what were the changes outside debian/?  Not spotting them
[23:15] <tormod> well that's the thing, I ignored them in the git history because they make so much noise
[23:15] <tormod> the alternative would be to have them in separate commits
[23:16] <bryce_> oh were those configure change stuff?
[23:16] <bryce_> any autoconf type stuff can be dropped.  As long as the package still builds that should be sufficient
[23:17] <tormod> no, these are non-used changes for instance in the windows dirs
[23:17] <bryce_> hmm, not sure I understand why those changes would be there though... did our source tarball differ from debians?
[23:18] <tormod> It certainly did sometimes, when we shipped 0ubuntu1 for instance
[23:18] <bryce_> right
[23:18] <tormod> and debians tarball != debian git
[23:19] <bryce_> ah so there are non-debian/ changes present in debian's git tree?
[23:20] <tormod> yes lots. additionally, the Debian tarball is not made from git it looks like
[23:21] <bryce_> urf
[23:22] <tormod> the ubuntu 7.6.0 tarball is the same as debian 7.6 tarball. however there are diffs between the bzr tree (autoextracted from package) and the git tree (outside debian tree)
[23:23] <tormod> bryce_, http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/d6ad766c2
[23:24] <bryce_> ok yeah I'm not sure what to do about those either
[23:24] <bryce_> glew.c?
[23:24] <tormod> yes these are things that doesn't really matter, it's just to get it MrClean
[23:24] <bryce_> the depend files are probably innocuous
[23:24] <bryce_> dunno what the glew stuff is, maybe jcristau can elaborate
[23:25]  * bryce_ --> lunch
[23:25]  * tormod --> bed


[08:08] <flocculant> seems the installer doesn't start from the Install option on debian menu
[08:09] <flocculant> mm and no try/install dialogue
[08:20] <flocculant> sits waiting after the Remove media thing after installing
[08:20] <flocculant> but it does at least install :)
[08:20] <flocculant> akxwi-dave: ^^ no time to see if it's just xubuntu
[08:20] <flocculant> bbl
[08:54] <akxwi-dave> cheers flocculant , will take a look
[10:14] <akxwi-dave> flocculant:  It not just us.. Unity is the same,,#
[11:06] <akxwi-dave> reported 1651716
[11:06] <akxwi-dave> #1651716
[11:08] <krytarik> LP bug 1651716.
[11:10] <akxwi-dave> :-)
[12:08] <flocculant> akxwi-dave: cheers - always good when it's not just us - we can blame cyphermox :D
[12:09] <flocculant> though likelihood is he already knows ;)
[13:05] <akxwi-dave> true.. lol
[21:26] <flocculant> knome pleia2 - website changes look good - thanks :)
[21:27] <flocculant> while I think about that
[21:27] <knome> goodie