[01:37] <Fezzler> Does REAPER work in Ubuntu?
[01:37] <holstein> looking at the screenshots
[01:38] <holstein> it looks alot like http://www.renoise.com/
[01:38] <holstein> http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=3336
[01:39] <holstein> i would ask over in #opensourcemusicians Fezzler
[01:39] <holstein> see if anyone acutally uses it
[01:39] <holstein> i remember seeing some chatter
[01:39] <holstein> but i forget what the final word was
[01:39] <Fezzler> u use renoise?
[01:39] <holstein> i checked out the demo
[01:39] <holstein> seemed cool
[01:39] <holstein> ardour is really the tool that fits my needs best
[01:40] <Fezzler> I bounce around.  REAPER, ProTools, Audacity, Ardour, Live
[01:41] <holstein> i really dont do anything that requires live
[01:41] <Fezzler> REAPER IRC on MIXXNET
[01:41] <holstein> and i found the UI quite strange
[01:42] <holstein> audacity doesnt do multitrack well
[01:42] <holstein> i really dont know much about reaper
[01:42] <Fezzler> It is odd.  But it is one of those pieces of software if you go thru the tutorials, it begins to make sense and you realize why it is so darn innovative
[01:42] <holstein> live?
[01:42] <Fezzler> yea
[01:42] <holstein> thats what ive heard
[01:43] <holstein> i really dont do much MIDI or electronic music
[01:43] <holstein> and when i do
[01:43] <Fezzler> also, and I am new to recording, for some reason Live has produced some of my best mixes
[01:43] <ScottL> Fezzler, i believe reaper will work with ubuntu but requires wine of course
[01:43] <holstein> i tend to treat it more like an anolog source
[01:44] <holstein> yeah, its not going to hurt anything to try reaper
[01:44] <holstein> just get wine and go for it
[01:44] <Fezzler> guitar player - but I do use software drums and shakers and horns
[01:44] <holstein> and poke around on wineHQ
[01:44] <Fezzler> ScottL>> Thanks!
[01:44] <Fezzler> I have wine installed
[01:44] <ScottL> Fezzler, if you check the reaper forums you should find someone called "alex stone" (i think) who did a bunch of work with it
[01:45] <holstein> AH, thats cool
[01:48] <Fezzler> ScottL>> Thanks
[01:50] <Fezzler> Beginning mixer, but my best results have been when I track each drum component individually
[01:51] <holstein> best sounding?
[01:51] <holstein> or best groove?
[01:52] <holstein> might have to find a happy middle ground
[01:52] <holstein> read about some recording techniques
[01:52] <holstein> if your having phase issues
[01:52] <Fezzler> sounding.  when I put drum track on one track, mix is always muddy
[01:53] <holstein> close mic-ing each drum?
[01:53] <holstein> with like 4 or 6 tracks?
[01:53] <Fezzler> midi / wave drums
[01:53] <holstein> OH
[01:53] <holstein> that shouldnt matter then
[01:54] <holstein> you can tell hydrogen to spit each drum out separatly to JACK
[01:54] <holstein> so you can mix them like an actual kit
[01:58] <Fezzler> yes, I like hydrogen.  I think tracking each drum opens up mix, but what do I know
[02:01] <holstein> hey
[02:01] <holstein> if it sounds good
[02:01] <holstein> go for it
[02:01] <Fezzler> fun learning, just wish I had more time
[02:01] <Fezzler> and money for instructions
[02:01] <holstein> nah
[02:01] <holstein> you can get help online
[02:03] <Fezzler> well, I've read about panning.  volume is easy.  I need to learn more about EQ, Gate, Compression
[02:04] <Fezzler> I also found my best results are when I add only subtle effect.
[02:05] <Fezzler> anyone try rakarack
[02:06]  * holstein is a rakarrack fanboy :)
[02:06] <Fezzler> Oh!  Struck a nerve.  :)
[02:07] <Fezzler> I should check it out then
[02:07] <holstein> those guys are really great too
[02:10] <holstein> quite an active project
[02:12] <ScottL> i second rakarrack, awesome jack-aware application
[02:13] <holstein> crazy light-weight too
[02:13] <holstein> for what all it does
[02:18] <Fezzler> holstein>> just installed it
[02:19] <ScottL> i think one of the newer developers actually knows about electrical engineering
[02:22] <Fezzler> holstein>> so my guitar should be recorded clean and then add Rakarack effects
[02:22] <holstein> i usually track with it on
[02:22] <holstein> and take a wet and dry channel
[02:22] <holstein> then, i got options
[02:23] <Fezzler> holstein>> I bet you can remap too.  Put clean on one track, output to new track with rakarrack
[02:23] <holstein> yup
[02:23] <holstein> in JACK
[02:24] <holstein> you can route the clean one where ever after the fact
[02:25] <Fezzler> I use my DigiTech RP250 as my audio input device.  Not sure it does clean or aka bypass
[02:26] <Fezzler> I think it has a "Direct"
[02:28] <holstein> yeah
[02:28] <holstein> maybe you can get both going in
[02:28] <holstein> on 2 tracks
[02:28] <Fezzler> unless my Ubuntu PC has a firewire in port, I have a M-Audio Firewire 410
[02:29] <holstein> yeah
[02:29] <holstein> i got a firepod
[02:29] <Fezzler> Firepod a line 6 product?
[02:30] <Fezzler> or Presonus?
[02:31] <holstein> presonus firepod
[02:31] <holstein> FP-10 they call it now
[02:31] <Fezzler> just looked it up -sweet
[02:32] <holstein> yeah, it works well
[02:32] <holstein> decent preamps
[02:32] <holstein> 8 balanced ins
[02:33] <holstein> !play
[02:33] <holstein> sorry
[02:35] <Fezzler> Lots of options with the FP-10
[02:36] <holstein> around 400 too
[02:36] <holstein> US $
[02:37] <Fezzler> here is what I have  http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_au/FireWire410.html
[02:38] <Fezzler> It is somewhat quirky because it requires a complete shutdown to plug-in, unplug.  Sometime "sleeping" the computer works too.
[02:39] <holstein> OH
[02:39] <holstein> that could be the chipset
[02:40] <holstein> http://www.ffado.org/?q=node/24 :/
[02:43] <Fezzler> well - looks like no go in Linux for M-Audio FW 410 per your link
[02:43] <holstein> yup
[02:44] <Fezzler> Firepod does though have Linux driver (or works with alsa?)
[02:46] <holstein> ffado
[02:46] <holstein> the firewire driver in JACK
[02:46] <holstein> just works :)
[02:46] <holstein> ffado is where to check
[02:47] <Fezzler> should I try or not bother?
[02:47] <holstein> with the firewire 410?
[02:47] <Fezzler> yup
[02:47] <holstein> wont hurt to plug it in and see
[02:48] <holstein> but the ffado site is pretty current
[02:48] <holstein> they have an active mailing list too
[03:10] <Fezzler> holstein>> see ya
[03:10] <holstein> Fezzler: :)
[03:10] <Fezzler> holstein>> gonna give rakarack a try and just capture a clean as possible tone from RP250
[03:11] <holstein> rakarrack FTW :)
[03:13] <Fezzler> I've learned not only does playing guitar turn one into a gear head but also a tone head!
[03:13] <holstein> hehe
[03:14] <Fezzler> I'm so glad I took this hobby up.  Just wish I started 30 years ago
[03:44] <Fezzler> holstein>>
[03:45] <Fezzler> rakarack Q:  here?
[03:45] <holstein> sure
[03:45] <holstein> theres a channel too though
[03:46] <holstein> if i dont know
[09:11] <Guest11951> i'm launching jackd from a bash script. anyone know how to detect inside the script that jackd has started up?
[14:45] <M00R1Z> hey everybody, i have a small question, is ubuntu studio ubuntu+studio, meaning that it's always based on ubuntu's latest version and i basically get ubuntu + the audiovisual stuff?
[14:45] <M00R1Z> i appreciate it
[16:35] <skypce> hi
[16:36] <skypce> can you helpme with it:
[16:36] <skypce> JACK ERROR: zombified - calling shutdown handler
[16:36] <skypce> Audio::shutdown()
[16:36] <skypce> it is when i run muse from cosole
[16:36] <skypce> and i try to load a soundfont
[16:37] <skypce> with fluidsynth
[16:54] <holstein> skypce: i have seen that
[16:54] <holstein> i think there is an argument
[16:54] <holstein> -z or -Z
[16:55] <holstein> i used to use it to get zynaddsubfx to run
[16:57] <skypce> very thank you holstein
[16:57] <skypce> i will test in a moment
[16:57] <skypce> :D


[20:43] <suro-patz> smoser: I would appreciate, if you can review https://code.launchpad.net/~suro-patz/cloud-init/vm-clone-ip-reusage-dep-fix, which I came up with as per your review comment on https://code.launchpad.net/~suro-patz/cloud-init/vm-clone-ip-reusage-issue
[20:50] <smoser> suro-patz, that sure seems reasonable
[20:51] <suro-patz> smoser: cool, thanks for having a look
[20:56] <smoser> thank you for your patience
[20:59] <smoser> suro-patz, do you consider any of the bugs you mentioned fixed by your commit
[20:59] <suro-patz> yes, I had verified with Rhel, and the bug mentioned for image creation from snapshot looked to be fixed
[21:00] <smoser> which bug though.
[21:00] <smoser> both ?
[21:02] <suro-patz> the bug description for 1275098 definitely is addressed
[21:02] <suro-patz> I am checking the desc of the other
[21:02] <suro-patz> brb
[21:05] <smoser> suro-patz, thanks. pushed
[21:05] <suro-patz> smoser: appreciate it!
[22:32] <harlowja> smoser alexpilotti should we have like a sprint or something (on the phone or whatever) about cloud-init v2.0
[22:32] <harlowja> get something to happen there...
[22:32] <harlowja> *aka dedicated time...
[22:33] <harlowja> *happy fun time


[08:43] <nils_> Looking at the documentation, there seems to be no chapter about installing / upgrading cloud-init?
[08:49] <nils_> also not a very googleable topic since most of it is about upgrading or installing things USING cloud-init.


[00:39] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- jbicha, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2797 Cancelled build (artful/indicator-datetime). Ready to build (artful/signon-ui). Successfully built (artful/indicator-bluetooth, artful/indicator-power, artful/indicator-sound)
[01:04] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- jbicha, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2797 Preparing packages
[03:59] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- jbicha, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2797 Failed to build (artful/indicator-datetime). Successfully built (artful/indicator-bluetooth, artful/indicator-power, artful/indicator-sound, artful/signon-ui)
[07:53] <chatter29> hey guys
[08:18] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- jbicha, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2755 Publishing packages
[08:36] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- jbicha, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2755 Proposed pocket
[09:59] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Trevinho, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2616 Pending binary packages
[10:13] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- alan_g Saviq, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2736 Publishing packages
[10:17] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- jbicha, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2755 Proposed pocket (artful/ubuntu-settings, artful/unity, artful/webapps-applications). Release pocket (artful/unity-asset-pool)
[10:17] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Trevinho, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2616 Successfully built
[10:32] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- alan_g Saviq, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2783 Publishing packages
[10:32] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Saviq alan_g, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2791 Publishing packages
[10:37] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- alan_g Saviq, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2736 UNAPPROVED queue
[10:44] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- alan_g Saviq, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2783 UNAPPROVED queue
[10:53] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Saviq alan_g, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2791 UNAPPROVED queue
[10:56] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- jbicha, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2755 Release pocket
[13:30] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- jbicha, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2797 Publishing packages
[13:33] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- jbicha, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2797 Publish failed: Failed to build
[13:58] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2792 Publishing packages
[14:13] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2792 Proposed pocket
[14:19] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- jbicha, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2797 Successfully built
[14:47] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- jbicha, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2797 Publishing packages
[15:12] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2792 Release pocket
[15:19] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- jbicha, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2797 Proposed pocket
[15:59] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- jbicha, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2797 Proposed pocket (artful/indicator-sound, artful/signon-ui). Release pocket (artful/indicator-bluetooth, artful/indicator-datetime, artful/indicator-power)
[16:19] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- jbicha, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2797 Proposed pocket (artful/signon-ui). Release pocket (artful/indicator-bluetooth, artful/indicator-datetime, artful/indicator-power, artful/indicator-sound)
[16:39] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- jbicha, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2797 Release pocket
[16:53] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- sergiusens, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2790 Publishing packages
[17:03] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- mterry, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2680 Needs rebuild due to higher version at destination (xenial/indicator-session, xenial/unity8). Needs rebuild due to new commits (zesty/indicator-bluetooth, zesty/indicator-datetime, zesty/indicator-power, zesty/indicator-session, zesty/indicator-sound, zesty/unity8, zesty/unity8-desktop-session). Successfully built (xenial/indicator-bluetooth, xenial/indicator-datetime, xenial/indicator-power, xen
[17:12] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- sergiusens, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2790 Proposed pocket
[17:45] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- jbicha, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2798 Preparing packages
[17:59] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- jbicha, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2798 Pending binary packages
[18:39] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- jbicha, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2798 Successfully built
[18:57] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- jbicha, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2798 Publishing packages
[19:20] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- jbicha, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2798 Proposed pocket
[20:39] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- jbicha, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2798 Release pocket
[21:11] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- sergiusens, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2790 Needs rebuild due to new commits
[21:35] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- sergiusens, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2790 Preparing packages
[21:52] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- sergiusens, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2790 Pending binary packages
[22:12] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- sergiusens, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2790 Successfully built


[01:00] <bluesabre> flocculant: yeah, was just confused by "bluesabre: just fyi - I see cantata (mpd front end) in your pa plugin", made it sound like that was surprising
[05:48] <flocculant> :)
[05:50] <flocculant> bluesabre: here's a thing - doesn't matter if mpd is pulse or alsa - it still shows up
[05:51] <flocculant> that said regardless of that play/pause works ok - back/forwards doesn't
[08:15] <flocculant> bluesabre: should clarify the pulse/alsa comment - cantata (and any mpd frontend I tried) never showed up in the normal sound indicator
[08:16] <flocculant> with the xfce sound one - cantate doesn't show up
[08:16] <flocculant> in your one it does - regardless of me setting mpd output to alsa, which is the norm here
[08:16] <flocculant> bbl
[10:45] <bluesabre> flocculant: gotcha! Thanks for the clarification, I knew none of that.


  Oge gee in
[05:05] <Kilos> ai!
[05:05] <mazal> Ek sal dalk hom klaarmaak wanneer ek op verlof is.
[05:05] <mazal> My oge is rêrig gedaan. Kan nie meer al die werk op pc hanteer nie
[05:05] <Kilos> doen jou beste asb seun
[05:05] <Kilos> dis deel van oud word ne
[05:06] <mazal> Het nie gedink iemand gee rerig om nie , ek het nie eers een reply gekry nie
[05:06] <Kilos> dis omdat almal besig is met ander goed ook
[05:07] <mazal> Gedink almal is net werk werk werk hier en niemand mind van fun nie lol :)
[05:07] <Kilos> natuurlink gee ons om, dis belangrik wat jy doen want dis al wat ubuntu kort nog, die games ding
[05:08] <mazal> Party aande is dit 'n mission net om mail te lees , ek begin erg sukkel oom
[05:08] <Kilos> jy moet ander bril kry seun
[05:08] <mazal> Ek het nuwe een gekry , help nie
[05:09] <Kilos> ai!
[05:09] <mazal> En daar is fout met my kop ook.   Ek gaan almal skoon depressed maak :P
[05:23] <Kilos> lol
[05:23] <mazal> Ek minetest amper nooit eers meer nie.  En onthou , ek gebruik dreambuilder , daar is oor die 1800 goed wat jy kan craft en in die inventory
[05:26] <Kilos> sjoe
[05:26] <mazal> So dis 'n 1800+ kis en sorting system netwerk
[05:26] <Kilos> sjoe jy word nou erger as graeme
[05:30] <mazal> Myne is net al die basic goete wat mens actually gebruik
[05:30] <mazal> Dink myne is so 35 in totaal omtrent
[05:30] <Kilos> aha
[05:31] <Kilos> hy het tot planters want auto plant en oes en weer plant
[05:32] <mazal> Ek het net auto oes op sekere goed
[05:32] <mazal> Planters het ek noggie mee gespeel nie
[05:32] <Kilos> sjoe
[06:21] <Symmetria> sup
[06:21] <Kilos> hi Padroni  Symmetria
[06:21] <Padroni> hi Kilos Symmetria
[06:22] <Symmetria> lol, so, I'm moderating a panel today infront of 800 people
[06:22] <Symmetria> on IT security
[06:22] <Symmetria> and have been handed a dream set of panelists that are just WIDE open for me to ask tough contraversial questions
[06:23] <Symmetria> lol the put a microsoft dev lead on the panel.... heh, I warned him this wasnt gonna be easy on him
[06:26] <Padroni> Sounds like something I would love to see
[06:27] <Symmetria> heh, padroni anyone who knows me knows that its a very dangerous thing to put me as moderator on a panel like this, because for me, a panel that has contraversy and arguments is remebered
[06:27] <Symmetria> a panel where everyne just chats and agrees is forgotten
[06:27] <Padroni> true that
[06:28] <Symmetria> so I go in there and prepare questions designed to hit below the belt, make people think very carefully before they answer what I say (because half the time my questions are such that I can predict which way the answer is going to go and have a follow up question thats designed to trip them up)
[06:28] <Symmetria> Like "Lets talk about critical infrastructure in a country, what should be classified as critical infrastructure in terms of IT"
[06:28] <Symmetria> and I can guarantee the guy is going to say "All the infrastrucutre of the incumbent mobile provider
[06:29] <Symmetria> at which point Im going to say "Is it not a better idea to force, via regulation, that the incumbent be split into multiple entities to reduce the risk factor of all eggs in one basket"
[06:29] <Symmetria> :P and watch all hell break out
[06:30] <Symmetria> (right before the CEO of the incumbent mobile provider shoots me) lol
[07:30] <Kilos> hi TinuvaMac
[07:36] <Kilos> hi psyatw
[07:39] <psyatw> hi Kilos
[07:39] <psyatw> how are you doing?
[07:40] <Kilos> good ty and you
[07:40] <Kilos> wbb
[07:42] <Kilos> hmm...
[07:43] <psyatw> I am also doing all-right
[07:44] <psyatw> just arrived at work
[07:44] <psyatw> ty
[07:44] <Kilos> lol
[07:58] <Padroni> One of these days, a bike swerving through traffic between cars, while driving on the white line, will knock my car. And you will see me on the 20H00 news...
[07:59] <Padroni> Because I will be the one arrested for beating a biker to death with his helmet.
[07:59] <Kilos> lol
[08:59] <Kilos> gmail decides to spam odd mails
[08:59] <Kilos> wwk original is spam in its eyes
[09:19] <SilverCode> why the hell is za.archive.ubuntu.com resolving to an IP in Kenya
[09:20] <Kilos> because the local mirrors are sick
[09:20] <Kilos> so we got them pointed to Symmetria
[09:21] <SilverCode> ok, because the server I'm getting i sincorectly configured
[09:22] <Kilos> shout at Symmetria
[09:22] <Kilos> use the neology one so long it works great
[09:23] <Kilos> and always up to date
[09:24] <SilverCode> what is the "closest" to a Neotel Fibre connection?
[09:24] <Kilos> ?
[09:25] <SilverCode> least number of hops between exiting neotel and getting to the server
[09:25] <SilverCode> but I suppose there are only 3 choices, and 1 of them is broken and the other is Telkom
[09:25] <SilverCode> so Neology it is
[09:25] <Kilos> i just use the link in update manager
[09:26] <Kilos> neology is nice and fast
[09:27] <Kilos> you could also get update manager to search for the best site for you but ive had no hassles from neology
[09:27] <Kilos> one of the guys thats here or visits here works there too
[10:01] <Squirm> Morning
[10:01] <Kilos> hi Squirm
[10:02] <Squirm> Hmm, seems it's afternoon
[10:02] <Squirm> Good afternoon
[10:02] <Kilos> that too ya
[10:02] <Kilos> hi is better it fits in with all times
[10:05] <Squirm> It's always good morning in international chat time
[10:05] <Squirm> Or whatever it's called
[10:05]  * Squirm shrugs
[10:06] <Kilos> lol like i said morning yesterday to dholbach and he had 2 hours to go till midnight
[10:07] <Kilos> now i evening him and peeps on the dark side
[11:00] <mazal> Guys is there something specific ( apart from manually changing settings ) that can break automatic updates ?
[11:00] <mazal> My pc here always does on Tuesday , but today it didn't
[11:01] <mazal> Check the settings and it's still as is
[13:11] <Padroni> laters folks
[13:28] <magespawn> good afternoon
[14:11] <Kilos> ai!
[14:28] <Kilos> sorry guyshead crashed all avy
[14:36] <Kilos> hi kulelu88
[14:39] <kulelu88> Hey Kilos
[14:39] <Kilos> when im away you guys must greet peeps man
[14:40] <Kilos> hi nlsthzn
[14:43] <kulelu88> Kilos: thats not how IRC works
[14:48] <Kilos> man this is ubuntu-za we all together in the same boat
[14:50] <Kilos> so when someone falls out we dont wait for a cry of help before reaching out a hand
[14:50] <Kilos> we catch him on the way past
[17:20] <Kilos> hmm...
[17:57] <Kilos> inetpro  jy siek?
[18:30] <magespawn> good evening
[18:30] <Kilos> hi magespawn
[18:30] <Kilos> sorry i missed you this avy
[18:31] <magespawn> no worries
[18:31] <Kilos> all ok there lad?
[18:32] <Kilos> hi clr_
[18:33] <clr_> Hi Kilos, you never disappoint with a 'hi'
[18:33] <Kilos> lol
[18:33] <clr_> can anyone help me with a windows licensing issue?
[18:33] <Kilos> sjoe
[18:34] <Kilos> what kind of issue
[18:34] <clr_> I have a 8.1 OEM license that that I got with my laptop
[18:34] <clr_> this license allows me to run it as the host, or as a virtual machine on the same box
[18:35] <clr_> it also allows me to run it as win7 as host (in case I wanted to downgrade)
[18:35] <clr_> Thing is, I want to run it as Win7 guest in virtualbox on my linux
[18:37] <clr_> Any takers?
[18:38] <Kilos> clr_  have you asked on #windows
[18:38] <Kilos> also why you want to run 7 not 8
[18:38] <clr_> hey, did you note the 'linux' reference on my last sentence?
[18:38] <Kilos> ive just made an 8 work with the traditional start button
[18:38] <Kilos> yes i did
[18:38] <kulelu88> windows 8 is kaka firstly
[18:39] <Kilos> i dont know enough about that os to comment
[18:39] <clr_> so I figured we linux guys have this problem, where you need to run your windows (that you got with your laptop) as a guest, once you replaced the os with ubuntu
[18:40] <clr_> so I thought this the ideal place to ask the question
[18:40] <Kilos> lol
[18:40] <Kilos> kulelu88  help him
[18:43] <magespawn> back again
[18:45] <Kilos> wb magespawn
[18:45] <Kilos> clr_  ask magespawn  he plays with windows all day
[18:46] <kulelu88> clr_: I dual boot mine just to keep the windows on it
[18:46] <magespawn> more than i would like to admit
[18:47] <kulelu88> clr_: Unless it is a work laptop, what can microsoft do to enforce that you NOT use your legitimate copy of windows on the SAME laptop in a virtualbox?
[18:48] <kulelu88> Kinda like Builders Warehouse trying to enforce who from my family can use the hammer I BOUGHT
[18:48] <Kilos> lol
[18:48] <magespawn> there are no unusual restrictions when using windows in a virtual box, the same as applies to bare metal machines
[18:49] <kulelu88> Kudos to you for respecting the law and the license though, clr_
[18:50] <magespawn> in fact one of the versions comes with a virtual license for xp, i think it is 7 but it might be 8
[18:52] <clr_> well, just that I had to phone a few times when I can't activate the copy of windows
[18:52] <clr_> and it is irritating when it stops working
[18:53] <clr_> Haven't you had a copy of windows stop working because it has not been activated?
[18:55] <clr_> Unfortunately I am also one of those that have to use windows during the day
[18:55] <kulelu88> clr_: dual-boot instead of Virtualbox
[18:56] <kulelu88> dual-booting gives you the full machines power also
[18:56] <Kilos> ya i think dual boot is the best
[18:56] <clr_> No, I like the fact that I can snapshot my windows
[18:56] <Kilos> lol
[18:56] <kulelu88> well we did try
[18:57] <clr_> And if you have many clients, you can have one 'desktop' for the one and another for the other (different snapshots)
[18:57] <clr_> so if they want to install their crap on it, it does not affect the other
[18:57] <Kilos> ah
[18:57] <Kilos> what do the win peeps say about it
[18:58] <Kilos> the prob is actually from them not letting it activate not so?
[18:58] <clr_> I did post also on mybroadband, will see what reply I get
[19:00] <clr_> yes, I am sure I can run it as a win8.1 virtual machine, but that is not what I want. I would prefer it to run as a win7 virtual machine.
[19:01] <kulelu88> so download the win7 packages, burn it onto a disk or .iso image and use that as your virtual machine
[19:02] <clr_> @kulelu88, that sounds interesting, how do you do that?
[19:03] <kulelu88> the way i backed up windows is by following some tool of theirs that allows you to back the system files into a few disks. I used about 2/3 DVDs
[19:03] <Kilos> you dont need @ here clr_
[19:04] <Kilos> ohi superfly
[19:05] <superfly> hi
[19:06] <clr_> ok thanks for the input, enough of this windows nonsense in any case
[19:06] <Kilos> lol
[19:10] <kulelu88> superfly: how long would it take you to build a Python MVP for a basic CRUD-style application and how much code-reuse do you use?
[19:10] <magespawn> clr_:  if you keep the machine date and time fixed the 30 days never runs out
[19:10] <superfly> kulelu88: how long is a piece of string?
[19:10] <magespawn> lol
[19:10] <Kilos> lol
[19:11] <kulelu88> well that answer was in poor taste
[19:11] <superfly> kulelu88: hardly. the devil is in the details.
[19:11] <kulelu88> I was expecting a realistic estimate for someone with your skills. Either 1 month or more
[19:12] <clr_> magespawn haha, have you tried that?
[19:12] <superfly> kulelu88: it depends on what technologies I'm using, what tables are involved, and a few other variables that would need to be pinned down.
[19:13] <superfly> kulelu88: I know you can put something CRUDdy together with Django in a few hours, but then it's cruddy.
[19:13] <kulelu88> superfly: so you spend quite a bit of time planning?
[19:13] <magespawn> yes, one of my old pc's had a bios problem that as soon as it was powered off, it would reset the date and time
[19:13] <magespawn> plas havoc with things like antivirus though
[19:13] <superfly> kulelu88: enough to get a good estimate of how much work is involved
[19:14] <kulelu88> superfly: is that a soft-skill that can only be taught with experience?
[19:14] <superfly> pretty much
[19:14] <superfly> and developers are notoriously bad at estimations
[19:14] <kulelu88> I am trying to estimate a bunch a projects I want to work on, but I yak shave thinking too much about it
[19:14] <superfly> (project managers are worse)
[19:14] <superfly> hehe, I know where you're coming from
[19:15] <superfly> kulelu88: at work we prefer to take a more long-term approach
[19:15] <superfly> break what you want to do down into small features, and then estimate each feature
[19:15] <superfly> we do JIT planning ;-)
[19:17] <superfly> Which is why I like Trello for my personal stuff. It's easy to break stuff down and make todo lists from it. Then move stories through a pipeline of sorts (To Do, Doing, Done)
[19:17] <clr_> magespawn, also calender apps are pretty useless and so on
[19:17] <magespawn> yup
[19:17] <kulelu88> superfly: are you familiar with a developer issue of premature optimization (like: don't use Python if Go can give me better performance)
[19:17] <superfly> yup
[19:18] <kulelu88> it kills me when I read up about those languages, even though python is my go-to, I feel like I am screwing myself over
[19:22] <superfly> kulelu88: the reality is that Python is fast enough
[19:23] <kulelu88> for basic scaling, right? superfly
[19:23] <superfly> kulelu88: and how long is it going to take you to learn and become proficient in Go?
[19:23] <kulelu88> about less time than it will take to optimize something in Python
[19:23] <superfly> kulelu88: for almost anything
[19:23] <superfly> kulelu88: no, it will take more.
[19:23] <kulelu88> oh yes, sorry, I meant more
[19:24] <kulelu88> got my comparison backwards :( :D
[19:24] <superfly> :-)
[19:25] <kulelu88> superfly: with your experience, would you use any tools to help you build Android apps?
[19:25] <superfly> It took me 2 years to become really proficient in Python, and 2 years to really understand Google App Engine.
[19:25] <magespawn> hah now i am not feeling too bad
[19:26] <superfly> kulelu88: uh, I'd probably stick with Android Studio and Java
[19:26] <kulelu88> Python really is amazing. I didn't write code for sometime and quickly spun up a script in 2 hours that helped a lot
[19:26] <superfly> I know Java well enough, and with it being the language and system of choice on Android, I'll be better able to get things working if I stick with what everyone else is using.
[19:27] <kulelu88> what about app-builders that generate Java code?
[19:27] <superfly> Too true
[19:27] <superfly> I'm not fond of those.
[19:30] <kulelu88> You raise some awesome points. Finding the perfect tool will just be yak shaving. I'll just put Android in a Docker container and build an app from code-snippets
[19:40] <superfly> kulelu88: Stack Overflow-driven Development ;-)
[19:41] <kulelu88> superfly: somehow, somebody else has always asked "that" question
[19:43] <inetpro> good evening
[19:43] <inetpro> Kilos: no
[19:43] <Kilos> yay
[19:43] <superfly> "Finding the perfect tool will just be yak shaving" -- perfectly said
[19:44] <kulelu88> what are you working on currently? superfly
[19:45] <superfly> As in, at this minute, or as in "in general"?
[19:45] <kulelu88> in general
[19:46] <kulelu88> maybe a SaaS or something open source, etc.
[19:46] <superfly> I've got a pet project that uses Flask, App Engine, AngularJS and Bootstrap. Nothing to show yet.
[19:46] <superfly> I'm always working on OpenLP
[19:46] <kulelu88> NLP software?
[19:47] <superfly> No, lyrics projection. Gives a church with a data projector the ability to show their songs, Bible verses, etc. on the projector, with a management console on the PC
[19:48] <superfly> Then I'm also trying to guide the direction of the Ubuntu-ZA and Ubuntu-Africa sites
[19:48] <magespawn> and the other full time job
[19:48] <superfly> And, I'm involved with DebConf16
[19:48] <Kilos> but whip too small
[19:48] <superfly> oh, yes, and Nomanini during business hours.
[19:48] <magespawn> the family
[19:49] <superfly> magespawn: in between everything else.
[19:49] <magespawn> and not to mention the little things like sleep
[19:49] <superfly> kulelu88: AngularJS + Flask = WIN
[19:50] <kulelu88> superfly: I applied for a job once using Angular + Flask. Then the COO/C-something-O hit me with a Google-fu question and told me to eff off (in symbolic terms) :D
[19:51] <magespawn> hi inetpro
[19:51] <inetpro> oh hi magespawn
[19:52] <Kilos> inetpro  moppie drop ons
[19:52] <kulelu88> I really wanted to work for a startup as a coder, but ahh well, found greener pastures doing nicer work
[19:55] <superfly> I don't mind what company I work for, as long as (a) they pay me enough to support my family, and (b) people are willing to listen to me
[19:56] <magespawn> i am off to bed, good night all
[19:56] <Kilos> night magespawn
[19:58] <kulelu88> is the commute bad for you? superfly
[20:00] <superfly> kulelu88: depends on your definition of "bad" - mine is 45 minutes on the train, but I don't mind it. I get a chance to relax, sleep, play Ingress.
[20:01] <kulelu88> 90 minutes each day?
[20:02] <superfly> yeah
[20:02] <kulelu88> my commute is 30 seconds :D
[20:02] <Kilos> lol
[20:03] <Kilos> fall out of bed and you at work
[20:05] <Kilos> night all, sleep tight
[21:00] <superfly> kulelu88: I can't work at home. I'd be interrupted the whole time.
[21:00] <superfly> Also, we use Agile and XP, so being at the office with the others is very necessary. It also helps me concentrate.
[21:01] <kulelu88> that's whats happening these days superfly
[21:02] <superfly> kulelu88: in some circles, not everywhere
[21:03] <superfly> anyway, merge proposal in, bed time for me.


[00:00] <persia> Note that I've never voluntarily shut down any of my actual handhelds, rather preferring to hibernate, so I'm not convinced that the lack of an easy interface is a bug.
[01:38] <cxo> yes i agree
[01:38] <cxo> i'm using it like a PC OS, so i wanted a shutdown
[01:47] <persia> cxo: You might try playing with the function of the power button.  It might be somewhere in /etc/acpi, but I've not looked at those subsystems in a couple years, and understand that they may have changed.
[01:48] <cxo> yeah acpi should work
[01:49] <persia> It's not GUI, but as long as you're dealing with a normally-off machine, shutdown is probably a better response than sleep.
[02:53] <dragonball> Can I install ubuntu mid on samsung q1?
[02:54] <dragonball> what software development packages are included on it?
[02:56] <dragonball> ubuntu mid supports mcCaslin platform but what about menlow?
[03:10] <virtualroadside> anyone know if moblin-media has a scrollbar, or if its just me?
[15:45] <nerdboy> is there a way for ubuntu to login automaticly when a proper usb flash drive is inserted?
[15:46] <persia> nerdboy: Yes.  YIf you had asked in #ubuntu, someone would have told you to investigate libpam-usb, but asking here you won't get much support.
[16:04] <nerdboy> thanks, i did ask there, lol, they told me to try a script that runs after being mounted
[16:05] <nerdboy> libpam-usb is right on the money, google has let me down again
[16:09] <persia> nerdboy: They did?  Odd.  The other comes up from aptitude search usb, and libpam is the authentication layer.  My apologies that you received the wrong answer there.
[17:38] <nerdboy> lol, i am use to it. i actually ALWAYS find better answers somewhere else than #ubuntu. this channel is for help with basic questions. i picked this room to ask the question becasue i figured since there is no live-cd and you have to manually instaqll packages for -mobile there would be more knoledgeable people here and less chatter, more chance of my question being answered
[17:39] <nerdboy> :)
[20:44] <mitcheloc> hello, does anyone known if ubuntu mobile will work on a nokia n810?
[20:49] <cxo> what processor does it have?
[20:49] <mitcheloc> sorry, read the fq, and it says it may be ported someday if a developer takes it up
[20:49] <mitcheloc> cxo: i think ARM
[20:49] <cxo> its not hard really to port it
[20:50] <cxo> the linux kernel will already boot on an ARM
[20:50] <cxo> its just a matter of recompiling the rootfs (all the applications) for ARM
[20:50] <mitcheloc> cxo: i'm not familiar with programming on a linux platform, do you compile that a linux pc first or on the device itself?
[20:51] <cxo> you can "cross" compile it on any standard linux pc
[20:52] <mitcheloc> cxo: how would i get the image installed onto the device?
[20:52] <mitcheloc> i know on a q1 you can plugin something like an external cd-rom drive
[20:52] <mitcheloc> i don't think i can do that with the n810
[20:54] <cxo> apparently the n800 is running linux just fine
[20:54] <cxo> http://www.handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/SupportedHandheldSummary
[20:55] <cxo> google around for how to boot the kernel on your phone
[20:56] <mitcheloc> cxo: you mean internet device, the n810 is not a phone.. though they have attempted to brand it as an internet-phone.. heh
[20:56] <cxo> you will need some sort of flashing utility
[20:56] <cxo> here you go http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/d3.php
[20:56] <cxo> damn man, learn to use google
[20:57] <cxo> now you're all set
[20:57] <mitcheloc> cxo: okay, i have a micro sd card, and an sd reader/writer on my laptop
[20:57] <mitcheloc> cxo: lol, it's not about learning how to use google, it's about learning the terms i need for this stuff. i think you've given me enough to get a good start going now, thank you
[20:57] <mitcheloc> ah yeah, i have that flasher tool instalelled
[20:58] <mitcheloc> cxo: that SupportedHandheldSummary table, shows all devices with grades next to them, except by the time you get to the Nokia N800 it has just a "Yes"
[20:59] <mitcheloc> what do you think that means?
[20:59] <cxo> not sure, the headings are at the top
[20:59] <mitcheloc> kk, i'll juust start testing trial and error now :)
[21:04] <lool> cxo: Actually i wouldn't recommend cross building a whole distro
[21:04] <lool> Building natively is slower but much more reliable and painless, especially thanks to the Debian armel port
[21:05] <mitcheloc> lool: So I would load some generic linux kernel onto the n810 and then build ubuntu mobile there?
[21:11] <lool> For instance, yes
[21:11] <lool> Well I'd start by creating a Debian armel chroot and building Ubuntu and ubuntu-mobile there
[21:11] <lool> mitcheloc: Note: vanilla kernels wont support the closed source wifi of the N8x0
[21:13] <mitcheloc> lool: okay, i'll investigate this, i think if i can't get a better OS on the N810, i'll end up ebaying it though
[21:16]  * lool finds the OS on the N8x0 pretty good
[21:17] <mitcheloc> lool: i guess you can say the OS is feature packed
[21:17] <mitcheloc> lool: but the apps available for it and the interface is missing a lot of refinement
[21:18] <mitcheloc> for example, the camera doesn't point at your head unless you tilt the device
[21:18] <mitcheloc> which creates an issue trying to look at the screen
[21:20] <lool> Hmm I found the camera decently pointing, but I don't use it much with camera
[21:20] <lool> Concerning the UI, you should try Canola
[21:20] <lool> Otherwise, you can basically build most Debian packages in scratchbox with moderate efforts
[21:21] <lool> There are plenty of third party ports
[21:22] <mitcheloc> lool: it looks like i need to do a lot of research, heh
[21:22] <mitcheloc> lool: i mostly exist in the windows world, so i pick up linux slower then most
[21:24] <lool> Ah; the above suggestions might turn out harder than intended then
[21:24] <lool> You should be able to search maemo.org for extra software for the N810 though
[21:27] <mitcheloc> maybe i will dual boot my laptop with ubuntu
[21:27] <mitcheloc> that should help me have more linux-style tools available
[21:28] <cxo> lool, much more reliable and painless? that's utter nonsense
[21:28] <cxo> a clean toolchain and build environment will produce the same binaries 10 times out of 10
[21:29] <mitcheloc> cxo: so do you use a virtual machine, or your running OS or like a third
[21:29] <cxo> sorry i dont understand the question
[21:29] <cxo> when i cross compile you mean?
[21:29] <lool> cxo: I mean reliability in terms of how many packages will actually build
[21:30] <cxo> lool, that doesnt make sense, could you give an example?
[21:30] <lool> cxo: I mean you'll find that almost all Debian packages build natively for armel but don't cross build
[21:31] <lool> Some packages can't currently be cross built at all
[21:31] <cxo> oh deb pkgs, i dont know how well those will cross compile, it all depends on how well the package uses autoconf/automake and how well the control file was written
[21:31] <lool> Yes; and many upstream programs don't cross build at all either
[21:32] <cxo> yes, but all the popular ones do
[21:32] <lool> For instance when building a C tool which needs to run during the build
[21:32] <lool> Well some popular ones fail :)
[21:32] <cxo> example?
[21:32] <lool> dbus, orbit2
[21:32] <cxo> i've got those cross compiling on about 4 different archs
[21:32] <cxo> mips, sparc, ppc and arm
[21:33] <cxo> i work for a company that does mainly that, "cross compiling"
[21:33] <lool> Nice, so you disable the policy and binding tools?
[21:33] <mitcheloc> cxo: i was referring to this: "a clean toolchain and build environment ", asking how you maintain that environment
[21:33] <lool> cxo: Interesting; do you have some pointers on your company/results?
[21:33] <cxo> we have our own build system that takes care of such, and any stupid unportable scripts or tools that the build uses it patched out
[21:34] <cxo> mitcheloc, its not hard, create a user solely for the purpose, build a cross compiler, setup your environment variables and your off
[21:34] <cxo> ^you're
[21:35] <cxo> lool, sorry we are not open source, but there is talk about making the build system open source soon
[21:35] <lool> cxo: I don't mind web pages on a proprietary company
[21:36] <lool> cxo: What's the company name and business?  IOW, who gives you money?  :)
[21:36] <lool> (just curious, we had some discussions on cross-compiling recenlty)
[21:38] <lool> I still wouldn't recommend too much cross-building for official packages; it can break subtly
[21:38] <lool> Not longer than some days ago, I was seeing virtualbox' configure calling uname -m to guess the target
[21:38] <cxo> there are arm distros already out there
[21:38] <lool> (with no override)
[21:38] <lool> And sure enough the Debian packaging was patching that to use dpkg --print-architecture, sigh
[21:39] <lool> So it seems many upstream get this wrong still   :-/
[21:39] <lool> But xcompiling is a huge win for repeated builds of software targetted at embedded for sure!
[21:52] <mitcheloc> lool/cxo: i'm gonna step out of the room right now, i need to understand a bunch of things first before ya'll overwhelm me :)
[21:52] <mitcheloc> thank you for your help :)


[07:40] <seb128> goood morning launchpaders!
[07:41] <seb128> cjwatson, did the new upload gave any useful log?
[08:03] <cjwatson> seb128: Unfortunately not - I can see it running the job (or in fact three relevant jobs I think, not sure why) but it said nothing else.  Could you file a bug please?
[09:09] <seb128> cjwatson, https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/1883076
[10:28] <twb> Is this the right place to ask about getting GPG keys for a PPA out of launchpad?
[10:29] <twb> The ppa owner suggests doing "gpg --keyserver hkp://keyserver.ubuntu.com:80 --recv-key DEADBEEFBABE", but I would rather do something like "wget https://ppa.launchpad.net/foo/ppa.gpg"
[10:30] <twb> (I'm on Debian 10 so I don't have the ppa apt method)
[10:35] <cjwatson> You can do something like "curl https://api.launchpad.net/devel/~cjwatson/+archive/ubuntu/backports?ws.op=getSigningKeyData" (with obvious owner name and archive name substitutions)
[10:35] <twb> Sounds good, let me see what happens
[11:46] <twb> Confirmed -- it works   http://ix.io/2oTG
[11:55] <cjwatson> good good
[19:47] <ddstreet> hi tomwardill could you bump my ppa size limit for https://launchpad.net/~ddstreet/+archive/ubuntu/systemd-upstream
[19:48] <ddstreet> if you could double it that should be more than enough
[19:50] <cjwatson> ddstreet: Please use the support link in the topic for this sort of thing
[19:50] <ddstreet> will do, thnx
[20:19] <cjwatson> (done)


[10:20] <Riddell> morning
[10:32] <tsdgeos> Riddell: morning
[14:40] <Riddell> new akonadi due tonight
[15:30] <Riddell> phew, KDM theme upgrade script done, that was a trivial three lines that took ages to test
[15:37] <ScottK> Riddell: Qt automated testing discussion in #u-meeting.  FYI.
[15:47] <Riddell> ScottK: thanks
[16:29] <Riddell> ok still lots to do on 4.8: language packs, throw oneiric backports at PPA, testing, I think I want to include the new NM with it for convenience to users, akonadi tar coming soon, then release tomorrow or whenever upstream want
[16:36] <ScottK> Did you see the mail to packagers about the ark patch.  I don't think there was an updated tarball after that.
[17:02] <ScottK> Nevermind.  New ark and kgpg tars.
[17:49] <Quintasan_> yofel: Wish me luck, installing 12.04 LTS on my workstation
[17:50] <Riddell> Quintasan: good luck
[17:52] <yofel> gl, works mostly fine on my thinkpad
[17:53] <Riddell> yofel: but does the install work or just getting it by upgrade?
[17:53] <yofel> I never tried to actually install it - that was a pre-alpha upgrade
[17:54] <Riddell> yeah I've a nasty feeling that might have an issue that needs looked at before alpha 2
[17:56] <yofel> did you look at kdepimlibs? If we get all updated I can do the backporting later
[17:56] <Riddell> I need to update kgpg and ark tars
[17:56] <Riddell> then I'll just do a mass backport and throw it at the PPA and hope it sticks, worked for previous versions
[17:57] <Riddell> language packs to be done too
[17:57] <yofel> k
[17:57] <Riddell> then testing
[17:57] <Riddell> then we're good to go
[17:58] <Riddell> but first I need food
[18:25] <shadeslayer> Riddell: I'll be free after 8 PM IST tomorrow ;D
[18:28] <Riddell> shadeslayer: your name occured to me because dholbach was looking for people to do talks
[18:33] <shadeslayer> I did see the call for talks, Not sure if I have the time though :(
[18:34] <shadeslayer> Lemme have a look at the timetable
[18:35] <shadeslayer> Uhm, sorry, can't make it
[18:36]  * shadeslayer goes off to study for his last exam in exactly 14 hours
[18:36] <shadeslayer> cya
[18:44] <Riddell> good luck shadeslayer
[19:19] <Quintasan> huzzah for sound in Flash!
[19:19] <Quintasan> Riddell: Works.
[19:19] <Quintasan> Though Skype is not installable
[19:19] <Quintasan> now how do I test recording
[19:21] <Quintasan> oh wait
[19:21] <Quintasan> It works
[19:21] <Quintasan> I think
[19:24] <Riddell> yay
[20:40] <Riddell> what happened to batl10n?
[20:40] <Riddell> how is l10n best packaged now?
[20:42] <yofel> Riddell: see https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Ninjas/Packaging/L10nOperatorGuide
[20:42] <Riddell> oh yes of course
[20:43] <yofel> ^^
[22:07] <Riddell> hmm kde-l10n has stopped making the automatic patch for local changes and I don't know why
[22:16] <afiestas> back on kubuntu ! this time I want to have more time for fine tunning :p
[22:16] <afiestas> otherwise I'm always running late for everything xD
[22:16] <Riddell> afiestas: yay!
[22:17] <Riddell> afiestas: so you're using precise?
[22:17] <Riddell> ah, l10n packages need auto-commit in debian/source/options
[22:17] <afiestas> Riddell: yes
[22:18] <Riddell> afiestas: how did you install?
[22:18] <afiestas> downloaded latest nightly, dd if of to a pendrive
[22:18] <afiestas> and installed it without any problem, next next next basically
[22:19] <Riddell> oh that's great to know
[22:19] <Riddell> maybe my fears are unfounded
[22:20] <afiestas> Riddell: what fears? the cd size being larger than 700Mb ?
[22:21] <Riddell> no just that when i tried an install something broke and I haven't had a chance to look at it more
[22:21] <Riddell> cd size is an issue too of course
[22:21] <Riddell> but same for ubuntu desktop
[22:23] <afiestas> well they have more users (I guess?) so size is less of an issue for them
[22:25] <Riddell> afiestas: it's still an issue if they advertise that it burns onto a CD and it doesn't!
[22:29] <afiestas> indeed
[23:11] <afiestas> are we finally going to keep rekonq?
[23:16] <Riddell> afiestas: that's the status quo and it's what I'm in favour of
[23:16] <Riddell> new version needing packing too I see
[23:16] <afiestas> awesome :)
[23:17] <afiestas> something I was wondering, is there any reason why ktorrent is installed instead of the simpler kget?
[23:19] <Riddell> I've never liked kget, it added loads of toolbar buttons to konqueror for no reason when we used it and it had a weird circle floating on your desktop
[23:19] <Riddell> haven't tried it in years so dunno if it's changed
[23:28] <Riddell> afiestas: do you think we should?
[23:28] <Riddell> ktorrent has all the features, and the UI to match
[23:44] <afiestas> Riddell: well, it is simple with 4 buttons now the needed ones for download torrent-ftp-http files
[23:44] <afiestas> I have been using it for a few days and it works great though maybe we should ask ktorrent-kget developers before even discussing the change
[23:45] <afiestas> since we must be sure that kget-torrent will be maintained and healthy :p
[23:46] <ScottK> When has anything to do with kget ever been healthy?
[23:46] <Riddell> ScottK: how do you mean?
[23:46]  * ScottK doesn't like it either.
[23:47] <ScottK> Anyone doing akonadi?
[23:47] <afiestas> well it has improve alot imho
[23:47] <debfx> danimo: I'm pretty sure that the qtcreator crash is caused by one of our qt distro patches. bisecting that will be "fun"
[23:47] <Riddell> ScottK: yes
[23:48] <afiestas> ScottK: if by doing to mean "using", I am
[23:48] <ScottK> afiestas: No, I mean packaging 1.7.0.
[23:48] <Riddell> debfx: no backtrace to find out where the cause is?
[23:48]  * ScottK leaves it to Riddell then.
[23:48] <Riddell> I am packaging 1.7 as I type
[23:49] <ScottK> OK.
[23:50]  * ScottK is working out barry's latest python3-pyqt4-dbus patch so maybe we can have a python3 dbus mainloop.
[23:51] <debfx> Riddell: I have a backtrace but it's not really helpful except that it has to do with QtDeclarative.
[23:52] <Riddell> ScottK: upstream missed out some vital part?
[23:53] <ScottK> Riddell: Yes.  Upstream wrapped QtDBUS, but didn't port the stuff in the PyQt4 dbus dir as you still need with PyQt4 or PyGi to provide a mainloop.
[23:53] <ScottK> If we just want to depend on PyGi we can, but that seems 'wrong'.
[23:54] <Riddell> what's PyGi?
[23:54] <ScottK> Python Gobject Introspection.
[23:54] <ScottK> Gnome thing.


[18:53] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Softpedia:: Google Chrome 87 Now Available with Major New Features @ https://news.softpedia.com/news/google-chrome-87-now-available-with-major-new-features-531561.shtml (by Bogdan Popa)
[19:03] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::OMG!Ubuntu:: New Regolith Desktop Update Adds Support for Ubuntu 20.10 @ https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2020/11/regolith-linux-1-5-released-based-on-ubuntu-20-10 (by Joey Sneddon)


[00:26] <teward> hmm... i think i found a bug in the 18.04.1 live ISO... it has a 250GB disk available to it but when i tell it to use the whole disk for LVM it failed to set the LVM root to use all the space :|
[00:26] <teward> that's... interesting.
[06:34] <guardian> is there a way of avoiding creating a local user when installing ubuntu server?
[06:34] <guardian> all my users are going to be defined in AD anyways
[06:34] <lordievader> Good morning
[06:36] <andol> guardian: If you lower the debconf priority on the installer I think you'll get the option of setting a root password rather than creating an initial user.
[06:37] <guardian> andol: that's interesting, so it means I have to modify the installer first?
[06:37] <guardian> andol: or is it accessible from the menus?
[06:38] <andol> Should be a menu option somewhere
[06:38] <andol> Mostly been installing cloud images, etc recently, so don't quite have the iso installer infront of me.
[06:38] <guardian> k will try the iso again, as I didn't see any menu
[06:39] <andol> Might be early on, with one of the menus you can access using F4 or F6, I seem to recall.
[06:39] <guardian> thanks for the hints, will try :)
[06:39] <andol> By the way, this is the classic Debian ncurses installer I'm talking about. No idea how the new fancy server installer behave.
[11:10] <ahasenack> good morning
[16:30] <caseyd> I'm having a kind of weird issue with UFW. I have this rule, which should allow something but its being denied. Am I missing something?
[16:30] <caseyd> allow from <IP_ADDRESS>/16 to <IP_ADDRESS> port 443
[16:30] <caseyd> Sep 28 11:22:02 oec-intra kernel: [9685260.839998] [UFW BLOCK] IN=eth0 OUT= MAC=00:15:5d:0a:c0:3d:14:18:77:04:f6:02:08:00 SRC=<IP_ADDRESS> DST=<IP_ADDRESS> LEN=40 TOS=0x00 PREC=0x00 TTL=127 ID=20245 DF PROTO=TCP SPT=64942 DPT=443 WINDOW=0 RES=0x00 ACK RST URGP=0
[16:33] <jrwren> maybe there is another rule, before that one that is blocking it?
[16:33] <sarnold> definitely check all the rules


[00:28] <lamont> so I wonder, how do I get network-mangler to quit trashing /etc/hosts?
[00:34] <nigelb> james_w: you remember the class? :)
[00:34] <james_w> nigelb: yes, thanks for the reminder :-)
[00:34] <james_w> nigelb: did anyone pick a topic for me yet? ;-)
[00:34] <nigelb> james_w: nope, nothing came up :(
[00:35] <james_w> I think it's been 6 months since I've done a "UDD intro + Q&A", so I can do that again
[00:39] <nigelb> yay!
[00:58] <ScottK> doko: http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ should be back in business now.
[01:50] <wgrant> In case anybody tries to fix it, the firefox FTBFS on powerpc is some unknown Soyuz breakage, so don't.
[02:07] <ScottK> james_w: At UDS, I would be very interested in sitting down with some UDD type person to review how I deal with clamav packaging to find out if UDD can help be do it better/faster or if it presents any interesting use cases UDD might want to support.
[02:33] <ldunn> Are all translations for a package stored in the po/ directory of the package, if it exists?
[03:52] <mgunes> For bugs targeted to be fixed in the development branch in time for the final release, do we use milestones (e.g. ubuntu-10.10) or release nominations? The current practice has been to use milestones and reject the nominations, but https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RCBugTargetting (which might be outdated) states otherwise.
[04:03] <ScottK> mgunes: No, that's not outdated AFAIK.
[04:03] <ScottK> TheMuso: Would you please look at bug 621374 and bug 619809 and comment on if you think we should update the packages or not?
[04:07] <mgunes> ScottK, I recall quite a few RC bugs where nominations were rejected and a milestone was used instead; bug #605577 would be one recent example.
[04:08] <ScottK> mgunes: The list that the release team reviews is those that are milestoned and targetted to the release.
[04:08] <ScottK> That doesn't mean everyone is doing it right.
[04:13] <mgunes> ScottK, there seem to be plenty of bugs tracked in Maverick:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+bugs
[04:14] <ScottK> mgunes: You asked a question.  I answered it.  If you were going to argue with the answer, why bother to ask?
[04:18] <mgunes> ScottK, I wasn't arguing; I meant to confirm your observation that everyone might not be doing it right, since both milestones and nominations seem to be used.
[04:18] <ScottK> mgunes: Oh.  OK.
[04:18] <ScottK> Sorry about that then.
[04:18] <mgunes> no worries.
[07:38] <pitti> Good morning
[07:38] <pitti> tkamppeter: cheers
[08:07] <Hobbsee> !info ubuntu-restricted-extras-java
[08:08] <Hobbsee> then where on earth is it from?
[08:11] <Hobbsee> oh, it's ruddy superOS
[08:12] <Hobbsee> !superos
[08:12] <Hobbsee> hmmm.  anyone here deal with that?
[08:14] <Hobbsee> and for bonus points, they have no place to report bugs
[08:16] <ScottK> Nice.
[08:16] <Hobbsee> quite
[08:16] <ScottK> You could possibly sick the trademark police on them.
[08:16] <Hobbsee> they've already changed from super ubuntu to superos
[08:17] <Hobbsee> mvo: can we instruct launchpad not to accept bugs following some pattern, and force the overwrite of that file?
[08:18] <mvo> Hobbsee: uh, no idea. I think that is more something for #launchpad
[08:18] <mvo> (sorry)
[08:19] <Hobbsee> mvo: ah.  no problem
[08:19]  * Hobbsee finds a contact address, so sticks the Long Pointy Stick on it
[08:20] <ScottK> \o/
[08:20]  * ajmitch hopes they've got good flame-resistant clothing
[08:20]  * ScottK cheers the return of the stick.
[08:20] <Hobbsee> haha
[08:20] <Hobbsee> "we don't provide support for this software"...yeah, i couldn't have guessed
[08:21] <ScottK> Hobbsee: But if they are still naming their packages ubuntu-foo, then maybe they are still vulnerable.
[08:21] <Hobbsee> ScottK: good point.  I'm not sure
[08:21] <Hobbsee> ScottK: to be honest, as long as I don't keep receiving bugs about their conflict, i'm happy
[08:22] <Hobbsee> they can name packages however they like if they don't cause us bugs
[08:22] <Hobbsee> if they cause themselves bugs, that's their own problem
[08:22] <ScottK> Right and the odds of that would be better if the package weren't called ubuntu something
[08:22] <Hobbsee> true
[08:23] <ScottK> "How can it not be an Ubuntu bug, it's got Ubuntu right in the name?"
[08:23] <Hobbsee> then i'll issue smackdown #2 to the reporter, and further dupe their bugs.  This is not really aproblem
[08:27] <ogra> popey, ! you banned karl ?!?
[08:39] <tkamppeter> pitti, hi
[08:40] <pitti> hello tkamppeter
[08:42] <tkamppeter> pitti, what's on
[08:42] <pitti> erm, still digging through the ridiculous stack of overnight email
[08:43] <pitti> oh, and I uploaded a cups fix for the upstart migration
[08:43] <pitti> how are you?
[08:43] <tkamppeter> fine, I have seen your solution in the BZR yesterday.
[08:48] <tkamppeter> pitti, I have seen in debian/rules of CUPS that there is also firewall (ufw) profile in CUPS. Does it take into account access to LPD-based network printers? See bug 645603.
[08:49] <pitti> tkamppeter: isn't lpd on port 631 as well?
[08:50] <tkamppeter> pitti, no, LPD is on port 515 and I do not know whether the printer uses additional ports to answer LPD requests.
[08:53] <tkamppeter> pitti, CUPS uses also SNMP and DNS-SD for discovering printers (the former also to check status). I do not know which ports these protocols use. They should also not be blocked by the firewall.
[08:54] <tkamppeter> wc -l x
[08:58] <pitti> jdstrand: ^ the firewall (ufw) isn't active by default, or is it? i. e. will /etc/ufw/applications.d/cups preclude other ports (like from lpd) from being used?
[09:03] <smb> pitti, Good morning. Could you accept re-uploads for Karmic (master, mvl-dove, ec2) and binNEW lrm Hardy?
[09:04] <pitti> . o O { seems it really gets time to get back to platform }
[09:04] <smb> pitti, There never seemed to be someone being able to fit your shoes. :)
[09:07] <pitti> slangasek, cjwatson: could one of you please review my udev upload from Monday? I discussed it with Colin before, and I vouch that it's safe
[09:07] <ogra> mvo, hey ... just tested your fix, works fine !
[09:08] <mvo> ogra: nice, thanks!
[09:08] <mvo> ogra: that means one final upload
[09:08] <ogra> mvo, kleiner lacher als dankeschoen :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ei7LP99FFb4&feature=channel
[09:09] <ogra> mvo, i havent had the opportunity to test with a list of packages yet though (TI only has one test package in their PPA)
[09:09] <ogra> though if it doesnt work i can ask them to create a metapackage or so
[09:11] <mvo> ogra: that does make sense I think
[09:11] <mvo> ogra: it should work :)
[09:11] <pitti> smb: meh, kernel-overrides is broken; hardy NEWing will take a bit
[09:16] <pitti> smb: karmic accepted, and hardy -envy
[09:16] <pitti> fiddling with hardy lrm now
[09:37] <popey> ogra: :)
[09:37] <ogra> :(
[09:37] <ogra> sniff
[09:38] <ogra> my best coffebreak entertainment is gone
[09:38] <pitti> smb: meh, and queue overriding is broken for me as well; I really need to get to something else right now, I'll have a look later (unless someone beats me to it)
[09:39] <jibel> pitti, please don't publish bug 525807 to lucid. It was marked verification-done but it is not. Thanks.
[09:39] <pitti> jibel: can you please set it to "failed"?
[09:39] <smb> pitti, Doh! Well I guess I'll have some more tea then. ;-)
[09:39] <jibel> pitti, done.
[09:39] <pitti> ah, seems queue override needs a full package name now
[09:39] <pitti> argh pain argh
[09:40]  * smb hands pitti a stress ball
[09:40] <popey> ogra: lol
[09:44] <pitti> smb: ok, lrm/hardy done
[09:44]  * pitti raises his shields to full power and finally goes to do something he's supposed to
[09:44] <tseliot> pitti: can you approve fglrx in maverick, please?
[09:44] <smb> pitti, Thanks, and good luck
[09:45] <tseliot> oops
[09:45] <smb> shields down to 20% captain
[09:45] <pitti> later :)
[09:46] <ScottK> TheMuso: Thanks.  Approved.  I'd appreciate it if you'd keep an eye on getting them uploaded sooner rather than later.
[09:47] <TheMuso> ScottK: sure
[10:15] <lool> pitti: Mind if I bother you for a sync to maverick?  FFE and rationale in LP #645200l systemtap 1.3-1 from Debian experimental
[10:43] <ScottK> didrocks: I think your approach of disabling all tests for libcairo-perl due to a few corner cases failing is probably overbroad, particularly this late in the release cycle.  Fortunately persia has worked out a more focused solution that only disables the tests currently failing.  I'm going to reject your pending upload.  Would you please have a look at what persia has prepared and consider sponsoring it if you think it's suitable?
[10:43]  * persia is build-testing that, and will push a patch to the bug when it completes
[10:44] <didrocks> ScottK: sure, I've done that after talking to slomo, and almost nothing is using libcairo-perl in any case, so if persia has a better solution, please go ahead and upload it :)
[10:44] <ScottK> didrocks: I'm just about to be away for several hours, so I'd appreciate it if you would have a look after persia puts the debdiff in the bug.
[10:44] <didrocks> ScottK: sure
[10:44] <persia> didrocks, I can't, so I'll hope for your signature on it in a few minutes :)
[10:45] <didrocks> persia: ok, I'll look at it :) just ping me!
[11:01] <pitti> tseliot: done; can you please update jockey as well? and thanks a lot for getting this in!
[11:02] <tseliot> pitti: sure, I'm also looking at another issue in jockey when updating initramfs (which maybe we should do for the current kernel instead of the newest kernel). What do you think? (this is in the handlers)
[11:03] <pitti> tseliot: hm, why is it doing that for fglrx?
[11:03] <pitti> tseliot: or do you mean for the wl blacklisting?
[11:03] <tseliot> pitti: here's the use case. I boot into an older kernel and decide to install the driver for that kernel but then initramfs is updated only for the newest kernel
[11:03] <persia> didrocks, bug #187823 has a more targeted patch
[11:03] <tseliot> pitti: to blacklist the radeon KMS driver
[11:04] <tseliot> pitti: the same applies to nvidia with nouveau
[11:04] <pitti> tseliot: so you want to update all?
[11:04] <pitti> tseliot: i. e. -k all?
[11:05] <tseliot> pitti: maybe just the current kernel? Or the current kernel and the latest kernel
[11:05] <pitti> tseliot: hm, I thought -u woudl already do the current kernel
[11:05] <tseliot> pitti: which is what dkms does by default with my template
[11:06] <pitti> tseliot: so, mirroring the dkms behavior makes sense to me
[11:06] <tseliot> pitti: -u without further arguments should only update the latest kernel
[11:06] <tseliot> pitti: ok
[11:06] <tseliot> pitti: I'll let you know when the code is ready
[11:06] <pitti> tseliot: cool, thanks!
[11:29] <cjwatson> didrocks: is anyone from the desktop team looking at bug 642746?
[11:29] <cjwatson> I've seen a few reports of that, and I see the bug myself
[11:30] <didrocks> cjwatson: not that I know of, but I wanted to work on it as I use metacity too :) Assigning to the team for now
[11:31] <didrocks> it's a recent update, I didn't get that before
[11:32] <didrocks> persia: didn't know about this SKIP testsuite (only familiar with python ones). Looks good and build fine. Sponsoring now, thanks!
[11:34] <persia> didrocks, Neither did I until I saw the comments in the source file :)  Thanks.
[12:08] <bdrung_> doko: can you have a look at bug #640732?
[12:44] <jdstrand> pitti: hi! ufw is not enabled by default. /etc/ufw/applications.d/* are what are called 'application profiles'. They provide a means for someone to do something like 'sudo ufw allow CUPS' instead of having to specify the port and protocol
[12:44] <jdstrand> pitti: they don't do anything unless the admin decides to use them. the cups application profile does not currently have an entry for lpd (515/tcp)
[12:45] <pitti> tkamppeter: ^ so this shouldn't cause the lpd failure you mentioned
[12:45] <jdstrand> pitti: as for snmp, there is no application profile. for dns-sd, if the firewall is enabled, multicast is allowed by default
[12:46] <pitti> jdstrand: ok, thanks for the heads-up; so probably cups' profile should get the lpd port added to?
[12:48] <jdstrand> pitti: possibly. ufw in Debian has some default application profiles that includes lpd already (/etc/ufw/applications.d/ufw-printserver) that we'll get in natty
[12:48] <pitti> jdstrand: ah, nice
[12:49] <jdstrand> pitti: I'm rethinking how we do those and will probably provide these default ones and remove the package-specific integration unless the packager wants to override the ufw defaults
[12:50] <jdstrand> but I need to think about it some more
[12:50] <doko> bdrung_: hmm, do you have such an example?
[12:52] <doko> new .0 release in feature freeze ...
[12:55] <bdrung_> doko: you can install audacious in maverick and follow the steps in comment #6. i haven't a stripped down version example for this bug.
[12:56] <bdrung_> doko: new .0 release of what?
[12:57] <didrocks> cjwatson: libwnck fix pushed
[12:57] <doko> bdrung_: audacious, what else. is this amd64 only?
[12:59] <doko> not reproducible on i386
[12:59] <bdrung_> doko: 2.4.0-0ubuntu1 doesn't differ much from 2.4~rc2-0ubuntu1 which doesn't differ much from 2.4~beta2-0ubuntu1. 2.4~beta1-0ubuntu1 was uploaded before feature freeze.
[13:00] <bdrung_> doko: i386 is probably affected too. some duplicates are filed against i386: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/audacious/+bug/633012
[13:01] <doko> bdrung_: is this amd64 only?
[13:02] <bdrung_> doko: according to the bug reports: no
[13:03] <doko> bdrung_: and can't reproduce on amd64 either
[13:03] <doko> although that's a remote system
[13:03] <cjwatson> didrocks: yay
[13:03] <tkamppeter> pitti, jdstrand, is the UFW totally open (inactive), totally closed, or closed with some exceptions in a default installation?
[13:04] <bdrung_> doko: i can reproduce it.
[13:04] <bdrung_> doko: the question is what differs between our systems? i was even able to reproduce it in my VM
[13:05] <bdrung_> doko: hiding won't help. ;)
[13:06] <jdstrand> tkamppeter: the default installation is disabled (ie open)
[13:06] <jdstrand> tkamppeter: s/open/inactive/
[13:07] <jdstrand> tkamppeter: ie, it does nothing unless someone explicitly enables it
[13:08] <tkamppeter> jdstrand, pitti, if enabling it all ports get closed if no exception is defined in one of the /etc/ufw/applications.d/* files?
[13:11] <jdstrand> tkamppeter: /etc/ufw/applications.d/* are not exceptions and nothing is done with them automatically when enabling the firewall. think of /etc/ufw/applications.d/* as /etc/services on steroids: it is just a way for an admin to conveniently reference (groups of) ports and protocols by application name
[13:11] <jdstrand> tkamppeter: eg, you do something like 'sudo ufw allow Samba' rather than specifying 137/udp, 138/udp, 139/udp and 445/udp
[13:12] <jdstrand> meh
[13:12] <jdstrand> 139/tcp and 445/tcp
[13:12] <jdstrand> tkamppeter: see 'man ufw'
[13:12] <jdstrand> APPLICATION INTEGRATION
[13:22] <tseliot> pitti: one more thing that I've noticed is that if a package is already installed and we enable it, the icons of control panels don't show up in the menu unless we do what's suggested in bug 581838 . I'd like to take care of this problem too
[13:24] <tkamppeter> jdstrand, thanks.
[13:25] <pitti> tseliot: because it puts a desktop file into /usr/share/applications which isn't shipped in a package?
[13:26] <pitti> I've seen several incarnations of this report already; you either need to run the dpkg trigger, or (easier) just ship the .desktop file in the .deb
[13:27] <persia> Please, please, select the latter of those options :)
[13:27] <pitti> *violently agree*
[13:32] <tseliot> pitti: I do both things
[13:33] <tseliot> pitti: however, when we switch between alternatives (and the packages are already installed), even though we call dpkg-trigger from python, it doesn't work because that's supposed to be called by a package.
[13:34] <doko> bdrung_: the list of segfault bugs in audacious is "impressing" ...
[13:34] <pitti> tseliot:
[13:34] <pitti> $ sudo dpkg-trigger --by-package fglrx-installer gmenucache
[13:34] <pitti> $ sudo dpkg --configure -a
[13:35] <pitti> tseliot: so you enable/disable the desktop file based on an alternative?
[13:35] <tseliot> pitti: yes, so that we don't end up having ati's control panel when nvidia is in use
[13:35] <pitti> tseliot: if the trigger causes too much grief, you could also use /usr/local/share/ perhaps?
[13:36] <pitti> tseliot: but if you have the fglrx package isntalled, why wouldn't you show it?
[13:36] <pitti> I mean, it's highly unusual to have fglrx installed on an nvidia system?
[13:37] <tseliot> pitti: I can have an image that has both fglrx and nvidia installed and I can enable the right driver according to the hardware
[13:37] <pitti> tseliot: ah, ok
[13:38] <tseliot> pitti: let me check how I call dpkg-trigger in nvidia-common (in a library that jockey uses)
[13:38] <tseliot> pitti: I do "dpkg-trigger --by-package=fakepackage gmenucache"
[13:39] <pitti> tseliot: you need a --configure call as well
[13:39] <persia> tseliot, Rather than adding/removing the .desktop file, consider hiding it.
[13:39] <pitti> right, you could enable/disable NoDisplay=, too
[13:39] <persia> NoDisplay is a really clean way to hide it :)
[13:40] <tseliot> persia: we don't install .desktop files in that directory, only links to the actual desktop files. When you switch between alternatives, those links point to different desktop files
[13:40] <tseliot> pitti: ah, so that's what I was missing
[13:41] <persia> tseliot, Much of what was horridly confusing about an experience moving hard drives between machines a while back now becomes clear :)
[13:41] <tseliot> pitti: and would it work if I did "dpkg --configure -a" after "dpkg-trigger --by-package=fakepackage gmenucache" despite the fact that fakepackage is a fake package?
[13:42] <pitti> tseliot: works here
[13:42] <tseliot> persia: that's just the tip of the iceberg. Welcome to my world :P
[13:42]  * persia quickly withdraws to something that makes sense
[13:42] <tseliot> pitti: good, so it'll be just a one line change in nvidia-common
[13:42] <tseliot> hehe
[13:43] <pitti> tseliot: "sudo dpkg-reconfigure python-gmenu" alternatively that should work as well
[13:43] <pitti> not sure what is better
[13:43] <pitti> but using the "gmenucache" trigger hides the implementation detail which package is responsible for it
[13:43] <pitti> it's not unlikely to move to gnome-menus at some point
[13:45] <tseliot> ok, thanks
[13:45]  * tseliot -> lunch
[13:54] <bdrung_> doko__: commented bug #640732. using g++ instead of gcc fixes the crash.
[13:55] <doko__> bdrung_: I love plugins ...
[13:55] <bdrung_> doko__: i will be afk for some hours - i need a new "perso" before it will be electronical and expensive.
[13:56] <bdrung_> doko__: indicates that a bug in gcc or shouldn't gcc be used for linking?
[14:14] <didrocks> ev: ping to remind about merge https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~didrocks/ubiquity/take-libindicator-abi-change. the installer mode will have no indicator in the bar otherwise
[14:14] <ev> didrocks: indeed, already realized that I forgot to upload it with the last version.  I'll do another upload shortly.
[14:15] <didrocks> ev: great, thanks :)
[14:44] <tseliot> pitti: I have tested my changes to jockey but I don't know if bzr hosting is up now, so here's the patch (which in bzr is split into different commits): http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/499093/
[14:44] <tseliot> let me know if I can upload the changes
[14:44] <pitti> tseliot: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/jockey/ubuntu/ seems to work?
[14:45] <pitti> tseliot: ah, -k <version> will _also_ update the current kernel?
[14:45] <pitti> erm, also the latest kernel, I mean?
[14:45] <tseliot> pitti: yes, they announced a downtime for code hosting at 14 UTC
[14:46] <tseliot> pitti: "-u -k $YOUR_KERNEL" means update this specific kernel while "-u" by itself updates the latest
[14:46] <pitti> tseliot: --help sounds like it would only update that particular versio then
[14:46] <tseliot> which is why both commands are required
[14:46] <pitti> ah, so they are cumulative
[14:46]  * tseliot nods
[14:46] <pitti> tseliot: looks fine, thanks
[14:47] <pitti> tseliot: so it's one commit for reenabling fglrx, one for the initramfs, and one for dch -r/debcommit -r?
[14:47] <ogra_ac> shouldnt that use triggers ?
[14:47] <pitti> ogra_ac: can't -- it's just changing symlinks
[14:47] <ogra_ac> ah
[14:49] <tseliot> pitti: yes, commits 431-433
[14:49] <pitti> tseliot: nothing new in ~ubuntu-core-dev/jockey/ubuntu
[14:49] <tseliot> pitti: if you agree, I'll push my changes and then upload
[14:49] <pitti> tseliot: please go ahead; thanks!
[14:50] <tseliot> pitti: ok, pushed. Also, here's the debdiff for nvidia-common: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/499148/
[14:50] <tseliot> just 1 line
[14:50] <tseliot> of code that is
[14:51] <pitti> looks fine
[14:53] <tseliot> pitti, superm1: I have one final change that I'd like to have in maverick. We spotted the problem in OEM when using chroots. It's a patch for DKMS which corrects the logic behind kernel selection (when building modules). I wrote the original code so I'm just correcting myself. Here's the (well tested) patch: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/499094/
[14:56] <tseliot> pitti: BTW I've just uploaded both jockey and nvidia-common
[15:13] <jibel> tseliot, I've verified bug 642518 in hardy
[15:13] <jibel> tseliot, The module builds fine and is loaded correctly upon reboot, so that's great, but there is an error in the make.log see http://paste.ubuntu.com/499115/
[15:14] <tseliot> jibel: let me have a look
[15:14] <jibel> tseliot, I think that $srctree is not correctly set in the Makefile.
[15:18] <tseliot> jibel: ah, so /usr/src/linux-headers-2.6.24-28-generic/include/config/compat.h exists, right?
[15:18] <jibel> tseliot, let me check
[15:19] <jibel> tseliot, yes it's there
[15:19] <smb> tseliot, It might be that this is only printed on the first run
[15:20] <smb> I think the makefile is called first normally, then srctree is not set, then it calls the kernel makefile and gets called from there and this time srctree would be defined
[15:21] <tseliot> smb: ah, it could be. Shall we check $srctree in the code before doing grep?
[15:23] <tseliot> or simply use grep -q so that the error doesn't show up
[15:23] <smb> tseliot, That probably could be done (or encapsulate the grep and check into something like ifeq KERNELSRC). I guess i have the same (harmless) warning in lbm. But if people get confused and its easy to do, maybe that is a good idea
[15:24] <smb> tseliot, Was that dkms package in hardy?
[15:24] <tseliot> smb: yep
[15:24] <smb> Ok, yeah. So more likely to get noticed
[15:26] <nacho> hey guys
[15:26] <nacho> not sure if you saw but even if we are not shipping a new version of gedit we do with gedit-plugins
[15:27] <nacho> is there any reason to not include it  in maverick?
[15:28] <tseliot> smb, jibel: I guess that simply passing "-q" to grep will remove that line from the log and it's a trivial change anyway
[15:29] <smb> tseliot, If you used the line I sent you be aware that it relies on match text going to stdout. You may need to modify it a bit more
[15:31] <tseliot> smb: yes, that's your patch. You're checking the exit status of grep, aren't you? "grep -q" will make it quiet
[15:32] <smb> tseliot, No I was checking for empty or non-empty stdout output
[15:32] <smb> So making the same quiet would be bad
[15:33] <tseliot> smb: right, I've just re-read your patch
[15:34] <smb> I probably should have paid more attention to the log output, but there is a bunch of that when doing lrm. So it just went under. And it worked.
[15:48] <tseliot> smb: then something like this should work: ifneq ($(shell grep -q compat_alloc_user_space /usr/src/linux-headers-2.6.35-22-generic/include/linux/compat.h && echo "found"),)
[15:50] <smb> tseliot, that looks reasonable as long as you have not hard coded the path.
[15:50] <tseliot> smb: yes, I used that only to test things locally with the makefile
[15:50] <tseliot> jibel: let me update the patch
[15:51] <jibel> tseliot, the -q will only make the output quieter but since it's an error it goes to stderr
[15:51] <jibel> tseliot, I mean you need to redirect stderr
[15:52] <tseliot> "Quiet; do not write anything to standard output" i.e. I can't read the man page :P
[15:52] <tseliot> jibel: -s should work though
[15:53] <jibel> tseliot, why not run $(shell grep [...]) then test $$? ?
[15:55] <jibel> tseliot, right -s should work. Let me update the Makefile
[15:55] <cjwatson> if you test $$? outside the $(shell) then it will be in a different shell process, surely
[15:55] <cjwatson> or at least may be
[15:55]  * tseliot was trying to avoid $$?
[16:00] <jibel> tseliot, it fails silently and the module builds. I'm now trying to build it with dkms
[16:01] <tseliot> jibel: ah, good
[16:04] <tseliot> cjwatson: do you know if there's a way to prevent lrm-envy from ending up in NEW? Something in the version that I use perhaps?
[16:04] <tseliot> there's <IP_ADDRESS>3-503.32 in -proposed
[16:04] <tseliot> hardy-proposed, that is
[16:08] <cjwatson> tseliot: I doubt it
[16:08] <cjwatson> tseliot: it'll be a soyuz bug
[16:08] <tseliot> cjwatson: I suspected that but I had to try ;)
[16:10] <jibel> tseliot, that's okay with dkms too.
[16:11] <tseliot> jibel: ok, good. I'll upload a new version of lrm-envy with the updated patch
[16:11] <tseliot> thanks for testing
[16:12] <jibel> tseliot, you're welcome
[16:21] <tseliot> uploaded
[16:41] <era> can bug 165181 get a sponsor for its patch?
[16:46] <tseliot> pitti: also, please approve lrm-envy in hardy-proposed when you're back
[16:47] <tseliot> or whenever you have the time
[16:48] <hallyn> james_w: hey, I'm trying to do a bzr dailydeb on a package that originally used 3.0 (quilt) format.  That appears broken in dailydeb.  Is there something I can trivially substitude?  I tried 1.0 (quilt) but got broken depend on Dpkg::Source::Package::V1::quilt
[16:49] <james_w> hallyn: it's just "1.0" not "1.0 (quilt)"
[16:49] <james_w> and it's not a trivial substitute as it doesn't have built in quilt support
[16:50] <hallyn> james_w: anything else I can try?
[16:50] <james_w> there's not a great answer right now unfortunately
[16:50] <hallyn> ok, so i'll just manually apply the patches out of debian/rules pre-build
[16:50] <hallyn> any estimates as to when 3.0 might work?
[16:51] <james_w> that's the best I can offer right now
[16:51] <james_w> no idea, I haven't heard of a good solution yet
[16:51] <james_w> bug 614768
[16:51] <smoser> james_w, thanks for the 'changelogs.u.c' pointer. embarrisingly never had seen that before.
[16:51] <hallyn> james_w: thanks
[16:51] <james_w> smoser: np
[16:59] <pitti> tseliot: oh, another one? I binNEWed it this morning
[17:00] <tseliot> pitti: yes, jibel riported a problem with an annoying message coming from grep
[17:00] <tseliot> pitti: the new upload is just a cosmetic change
[17:02] <pitti> tseliot: ah, thanks; will look at it
[17:03] <tseliot> pitti: great, thanks (together with jockey and nvidia-common) :)
[17:29] <pitti> tseliot: done, thanks
[17:30] <tseliot> pitti: thanks a lot
[17:50] <ari-tczew> pitti: when do you plan review lucid-proposed for approval?
[17:50] <pitti> I did way too much queue review today already..; no plan yet, just "soon" :0
[18:50] <jcastro> bdrung_: f-spot is also affected by the submodule bug (since you're in there already)
[18:54] <bdrung_> jcastro: submodule? bug number?
[18:55] <jcastro> bug 402814
[18:55] <bdrung_> jcastro: ok. added
[18:56] <bdrung_> 8 projects. i want an working import for vlc. currently i am using a workaround
[19:24] <Keybuk> kees: have you been fiddling? :-)
[19:24] <Keybuk> deathspank scott% iwconfig |& grep eth1
[19:24] <Keybuk> eth1      IEEE 802.11  Access Point: Not-Associated
[19:24] <Keybuk> deathspank scott% sudo iwconfig |& grep eth1
[19:24] <Keybuk> eth1      IEEE 802.11abgn  ESSID:"attwifi"
[19:24] <Neko_> Keybuk, hi, ogra just informed me upstart relies on 2.6.35, any description available of why that is?
[19:25] <Keybuk> Neko_: I don't know why ogra informed you of that, no
[19:25] <Keybuk> to be honest, I don't know why ogra does many of the things he does ;-)
[19:29] <Neko_> so there should be no weird features in udev or upstart or anything else that basically relies on some fancy new sysfs or so feature of 2.6.35 over, say, 2.6.31, that hasn't got some workaround?
[19:29] <Neko_> I'm hoping nobody bothered to clean it up since Karmic/Lucid
[19:30]  * ScottK is pretty sure he didn't say that.
[19:31] <Keybuk> Neko_: you didn't say udev
[19:31] <Keybuk> you said Upstart
[19:32] <Keybuk> udev certainly relies on whatever the *latest* kernel version was at the time that version of udev was released
[19:32] <Keybuk> which is only natural, since udev is pretty much the kernel's userspace partner
[19:32] <Neko_> how do udev releases map to kernel releases? :/
[19:32] <Keybuk> take an Ubuntu release
[19:32] <Neko_> I mean say, udev 117.. how do I know which kernel that would be happy with
[19:32] <Keybuk> whatever version of udev is chipped with that release, needs whatever kernel was shipped with that release
[19:34] <Neko_> is that an ubuntu udev thing or a www.kernel.org/udev thing?
[19:35] <Keybuk> well, you won't find it on either
[19:35] <Keybuk> but a good guide, first look at:
[19:35] <Keybuk> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/udev
[19:36] <Keybuk> 117 was shipped in Hardy, so look at:
[19:36] <Keybuk> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux
[19:36] <Keybuk> err w/o the edge obviously
[19:36] <Keybuk> Hardy had 2.6.24
[19:36] <Keybuk> so figure that udev 117 needs kerenl 2.6.24
[19:37] <Neko_> I somehow doubt 147~-6.1 is going to run on Maverick even if we try
[19:37] <Keybuk> forwards compatibility tends to be much better than backwards
[19:37] <Keybuk> usually you can update your kernel without updating your udev
[19:37] <kees> Keybuk: with wifi? no... why?
[19:37] <Keybuk> for the most part, it works, occasionally you may need to update rules if you care about a particular new subsystem of that new kernel
[19:38] <Keybuk> kees: see the paste - it amused me - it's the kind of thing you'd like
[19:38] <Keybuk> kees: you can only see what AP you're associated to if you're root ;-)
[19:38] <Keybuk> Neko_: indeed, it's this slight focus on making sure that forwards compatibility works that means backwards compatibility doesn;t
[19:39] <kees> Keybuk: oh, I missed the sudo. weird.
[19:39] <kees> Keybuk: it's probably all the same query call that includes the key too
[19:40] <Keybuk> I'd guess iwconfig is making a kind of "give me everything" query
[19:40] <kees> Keybuk: s'okay, until current kernels, I could read the kernel memory that held that info directly. ;)
[19:40] <Keybuk> kees: *grumpy*
[19:40] <Keybuk> I want /dev/kmem back, damnit
[19:40] <Keybuk> of course, in Ubuntu, you can just ask NM for the same info - which happily sends it over D-Bus ;-)
[19:40] <kees> yup :)
[19:41] <kees> nothing stops you from compiling and running a kernel with /dev/kmem. :)
[19:49] <ogra_cmpc> Keybuk, i said that things like upstart and udev sometimes rely on kernel features, in some releases more in some less
[19:52] <ogra_cmpc> Keybuk, and that if you roll an ubuntu image of maverick with your own kernel you should have a 2.6.35
[19:52] <kees> pitti: what do you think of a 30 min default? I don't want gnome-keyring to remember forever as a default...
[19:55] <Keybuk> ogra_cmpc: right, that's good advice
[19:55] <Keybuk> if you roll your own images of any ubuntu version, only *update* software
[19:55] <Keybuk> never downgrade
[19:56] <Keybuk> kernel 2.6.36, 37, 38, ... should be fine too
[19:56] <ogra_cmpc> Keybuk, especially if you try to revive an arch we dropped :)
[19:56] <Keybuk> kees: yes, but you'd stop me uploading that to the archive as the default :p
[19:56] <ogra_cmpc> and see weird bugs nobody can explain
[19:56] <Keybuk> there are reasons it's a dropped arch :p
[19:57] <ogra_cmpc> yes :)
[19:58] <kees> Keybuk: indeed, since only you need kmem :)
[19:59] <Keybuk> kees: no, everybody needs kmem!
[19:59] <Keybuk> because otherwise there's no way to get the string arguments to functions out of the kernel while tracing ;-)
[19:59] <Keybuk> the tracing infrastructure simply returns the address of the string, not the string :p
[19:59] <Keybuk> (as you well know)
[19:59] <kees> Keybuk: key part of your sentence "while tracing"
[19:59] <kees> :)
[19:59] <Keybuk> kees: tracing is for everybody
[20:00] <Keybuk> automated performance optimisation, etc.
[20:00] <Keybuk> hell, you could even do automated intrusion detection by having something trace the kernel looking for unusual call patterns :p
[20:01] <kees> if something genuinely has general-purpose utility, a specific interface to the kernel needs to be built. /dev/kmem isn't really the right answer for that.
[20:01] <Keybuk> ideally ftrace would just return strings :p
[20:01] <Keybuk> but I suspect certain security people would object if all strings were returned by the kernel :p
[20:02] <Keybuk> got to run -- bbiab
[20:20] <stgraber> ogra_cmpc: ping
[20:24] <SpamapS> is there a way to start using merge-upstream when you already have the upstream+debian in a branch? Every time I attempt this, it just goes horribly and deletes the debian dir. :(
[20:24] <james_w> SpamapS: packaging is bad and must be deleted
[20:25] <SpamapS> and punished? ;)
[20:25] <james_w> I think Didier has seen that problem, but I can't remember the cause now
[20:25] <james_w> SpamapS: what command are you running?
[20:26] <SpamapS> bzr merge-upstrea --version x path/to/new/tarball
[20:26] <SpamapS> m
[20:26] <SpamapS> forgot the m
[20:26] <james_w> ok
[20:26] <james_w> and this is a packaging branch, or the upstream branch?
[20:26] <james_w> did you set an upstream- tag by hand?
[20:26] <SpamapS> This is my packaging branch
[20:26] <SpamapS> I've tried that yes
[20:27] <james_w> I think it must be thinking that the ./debian dir used to be in upstream but has now been removed
[20:27] <SpamapS> I've also tried importing just the latest version, reverting the deleted debian dir, and then committing, tagging that (so its a single change that just has upstream in it)
[20:27] <lifeless> kees: ping
[20:28] <lifeless> kees: I want some security team cycles, and AFAICT its a last minute launchpadlib thing for Ubuntu 1 / Ubuntu SSO so it is sadly urgent.
[20:28] <lifeless> kees: I've mailed you, but if you're not the best places person to comment... please do.
[20:28] <lifeless> point me at someone else.
[20:28] <james_w> SpamapS: that sounds reasonable to me
[20:28] <james_w> did it not work?
[20:29] <SpamapS> james_w: no, still deleted the debian dir
[20:29] <james_w> SpamapS: you ran merge-upstream twice in that scenario?
[20:30] <SpamapS> I'd be fine if I could say --ignore-packaging or something
[20:30] <SpamapS> james_w: I reverted everything that merge-upstream did
[20:30] <james_w> latest == version already in packaging branch, then you imported again for a new upstream release?
[20:31] <SpamapS> basically what I did was create my own private packaging branch to package an upstream project ... after about 3 releases .. I wanted to use merge-upstream.. so I did merge-upstream, which deleted debian, so I reverted..
[20:31] <SpamapS> I have this in a pushed branch btw
[20:31] <james_w> ok, let me take a look
[20:31] <SpamapS> https://code.launchpad.net/~clint-fewbar/clb/packaging
[20:32] <SpamapS> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~clint-fewbar/clb/packaging/revision/7
[20:32] <SpamapS> so thats the first one where I tagged it upstream-something
[20:32] <SpamapS> when I try to merge-upstream 0.4.1's tarball.. debian is still deleted
[20:34] <james_w> SpamapS: ok, I think we can fix this for the future
[20:34] <james_w> do the merge-upstream of 0.4.1, bzr revert ./debian, bzr commit -m "Merge 0.4.1 release", and then continue from there
[20:35] <james_w> 0.4.2 should import fine on top of that
[20:35] <kees> lifeless: okay, I'll read
[20:35] <SpamapS> james_w: ah, ok. :)
[20:36] <james_w> SpamapS: not sure what you did with 0.4, but upstream- tags shouldn't be set by you in normal use, only as a bootstrapping
[20:37] <lifeless> kees: thanks
[20:37] <james_w> it looks like you reverted a lot, then set the upstream- tag on the packaging, which tells bzr-builddeb that all of that is upstream, so it will continue to delete the debian dir
[20:37] <SpamapS> james_w: ok, I'll refrain from trying to outsmart it. :)
[20:38] <james_w> upstream- tags are set on the "pristine upstream" branch that is part of the history, and the diff between the latest one tagged with that and the tip what bzr-builddeb considers the packaging, and what it will conserve in the merge
[20:38] <james_w> SpamapS: never try and outsmart dumb code ;-)
[20:38] <lifeless> james_w: is that like arguing with fools?
[20:38] <james_w> indeed
[20:39]  * SpamapS certainly rushed in
[20:43] <SpamapS> james_w: ok, so I deleted the upstream-0.4 tag..
[20:43] <SpamapS> james_w: now trying to bootstrap.. getting
[20:43] <SpamapS> bzr: ERROR: Unable to find the tag for the previous upstream version, 0.4, in the branch: upstream-0.4
[20:44] <SpamapS> using --last-version=0.4
[20:44] <james_w> SpamapS: ah, put the upstream-0.4 tag back if you are using --last-version=0.4, or use --last-version=0.3
[20:45] <SpamapS> james_w: I have no upstream-xxx tags
[20:45] <james_w> I thought I saw an upstream0.3 one
[20:45] <SpamapS> So.. is the point that to bootstrap, one must manually tag the branch and then revert what it messes up?
[20:45] <SpamapS> yeah there was an 0.3 but that was was screwed up too
[20:46]  * SpamapS gives up, and just uses import+revert :-/
[20:47] <james_w> SpamapS: exactly
[20:48] <achiang> is there an appropriate channel to ask audio stack questions?
[20:49] <kees> lifeless: ow ow my eyes. I will try to develop a coherent reply to this proposal.
[20:49] <lifeless> kees: so I wasn't jumping at ghosts ?
[20:50] <kees> lifeless: no, it needs a little more thought. frankly, the gnome-keyring philosophy is flawed, but yes, there is a good and mostly valid point about security theater. however, I think this proposal overcorrects too far. I'll write up my thoughts. I've asked the rest of the team to chime in too.
[20:51] <lifeless> great, thanks.
[20:53] <maco> hmm theres still something buggy about boot. i get it on both laptops that run maverick and i think i saw an ubuntu (not kubuntu) user say they hit it too... where after plymouth is done doing its thing, instead of going to the dm it just sits there displaying the getpwid(0) error (which afaict is harmless -- its there on good boots too, just hidden by gdm/kdm) on a black terminal and you cant change VTs to restart your dm...
[20:54] <maco> i had it with lucid too though, so its not a new bug
[20:54] <maco> just annoying to have ~ 1/4 of boots fail
[20:54] <maco> any of you other developery types hitting that?
[20:55] <ScottK> maco: IIRC there's an open bug about it.  I haven't been hit.
[20:55] <maco> ScottK: any idea what package was deemed the cause so i can narrow down lp?
[20:56] <ScottK> maco: I have a vague recollection is was filed against plymouth or kdebase-workspace, but I don't actually know.
[20:57] <slangasek> yes, the getpwuid(0) is spurious and unrelated to the problem you're having; but I haven't seen this particular problem
[20:57] <slangasek> the problems users have reported against plymouth are largely "plymouth never starts, and I get this error message"
[20:57] <maco> mm i can try rebooting a few more time to hit it again, but i thought the splash was there before that message
[20:58] <maco> (my systems all boot in < 10 seconds so i tend not to actually *see* bootup happening)
[20:59] <maco> ok splash was *definitely* there
[20:59] <maco> (wow 2 out of 3 boots today!)
[20:59] <maco> (i mean, 2/3 were failures)
[21:01] <maco> slangasek: is there a correspondence between what stage of boot it is and the dots, or are the dots not a true progress indicator?
[21:02] <slangasek> I don't think that's straightforwardly reversible to tell you where you are in the boot, no
[21:04] <achiang> last time i looked at plymouth code, the dots just animate on a timer, iirc. nothing to do with actual progress
[21:04] <maco> aww
[21:55] <kees> lifeless: replied
[21:55] <lifeless> thanks
[22:30] <lifeless> thanks kees, you were remarkably phlemgatic :)
[22:31] <kees> lifeless: uhm, thanks? I have no idea what that really means in that context. :)
[22:35] <lifeless> kees:  balanced
[22:35] <lifeless> kees: unflappable
[22:36] <kees> lifeless: yeah, managed to educate myself just now. figured "producing phlegm" wasn't what you meant. :)
[22:59] <barry> ajmitch: hi!  good having you on the udd meeting yesterday.  as stakeholder for revu, you might want to subscribe to this wiki page (and subpages): https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment
[23:00] <ajmitch> ok
[23:00] <barry> ajmitch: and the mailing list (i will send out a summary of the meeting shortly)
[23:00] <ajmitch> I've been on the mailing list for awhile :)
[23:00] <barry> awesome!