[00:36] <LyricHartley> stupid question, but I just don't see it....what is the syntax for the AWS_CREDENTIAL_FILE
[00:37] <LyricHartley> AWSAccessKeyId works for one
[00:37] <LyricHartley> but can't figure out the other
[00:37] <LyricHartley> tried versions of AWSSecretAccessKey
[00:37] <LyricHartley> don't see in docs
[00:38] <LyricHartley> ?
[00:42] <LyricHartley> appears to be AWSSecretKey
[13:25] <uvirtbot`> New bug: #412143 in ubuntu-on-ec2 "ec2-init init script has bad Required-Start header" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/412143
[16:05] <ahasenack> guys, is the wiki the official and up-to-date source for the official ubuntu AMI names?
[16:05] <ahasenack> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EC2StartersGuide#Getting%20the%20images specifically
[16:05] <ahasenack> I'm still running into the network bug during startup. The bug is in "fix released" state, but there is no AMI mentioned in the ticket
[16:06] <ahasenack> https://bugs.launchpad.net/vmbuilder/+bug/308530 is the bug
[16:06] <uvirtbot`> Launchpad bug 308530 in ubuntu-on-ec2 "Wait for network before downloading ssh credentials or user-data" [Medium,Fix released]
[16:20] <agussman> Would anyone care to hazard a guess as to why this is causing a segfault?  #  du -hc / | grep -P '\t/[^/]+$'
[18:18] <ahasenack> agussman: check dmesg
[18:20] <agussman> ahasenack: thanks.  After playing around with it, I realized it was the grep that was causing problems but I could avoid using it by providing the --max-depth 1 option to du
[18:20] <ahasenack> agussman: the dmesg would be to check if there was any kernel panic or oops happening
[18:20] <ahasenack> bar that, yeah, it's just a user space bug in grep or du
[22:14] <walski> Hi there
[22:14] <walski> I'm looking for an AMI to build a high load web server for static pages.
[22:14] <walski> It's just to test a load generator and must only run for about an hour
[22:15] <walski> so it would be nice to have something that comes pretty much pre configured
[22:15] <walski> high load means something about 100 req/sec
[22:15] <walski> can you give me a hint what would be a good image?
[22:16] <erichammond> walski: Since you're presumably using Ubuntu, it's easy to start with a clean server AMI and install Apache.
[22:16] <walski> is there a clean ubuntu image?
[22:17] <walski> looked at the comunity rep[ository
[22:17] <walski> but found only a lot of preconfigured stuff which i just does not need
[22:17] <erichammond> walski: What release (version) would you like to use?
[22:17] <walski> Doesn't matter ;)
[22:18] <walski> As I said it's more a fire and forget thing
[22:18] <walski> would take what comes as the easiest solution
[22:18] <erichammond> walski: I publish a number of Ubuntu releases on http://alestic.com which are pretty popular for production use.
[22:19] <erichammond> I'd recommmend picking a "server 32-bit" Hardy or Jaunty.
[22:19] <erichammond> I also list the AMIs published by Canonical.
[22:24] <erichammond> Then: apt-get update && apt-get upgrade -y && apt-get install -y apache2
[22:25] <erichammond> Drop your static files in /var/www and you should be set.
[22:29] <walski> thanks!
[22:30] <erichammond> If you find it can't perform to your expectations with m1.small, then upgrade to c1.medium which gives 5x the CPU for 2x the price.
[22:30] <erichammond> Then step up to a c1.xlarge (which requires 64-bit AMI)
[22:42] <walski> works great, thank you a lot!


[11:28] <elacheche> Kilos, hey! Can I have a link to download & use QA ?
[11:28] <Kilos> where do you want it elacheche
[11:29] <elacheche> I'm looking for a bot to try.. and play with, nothing else
[11:33] <Kilos> you can get ibid in the repos
[11:34] <Kilos> then run and set it up there
[11:35] <Kilos> or you can pm QA and then check it out
[19:57] <elacheche_anis> o/
[20:04] <Na3iL> \o


[11:53] <penguin42> any pango or unity guys here? Bug 1239381 - the last comment someone added another way of triggering it, the backtrace looks similar on saucy, and it doesn't trigger on Trusty - should it be the same bug?
[11:53] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1239381 in Unity 7.0 "Unity crashes when entering a term including "emu" in the home lens" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1239381
[20:26] <joossee> guys is there any fix for the dash home button being very laggy?
[20:32] <brainwash> some days and pointless comments later there is still no visible progress regarding bug 1205384
[20:32] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1205384 in lxsession (Ubuntu) "Lock can be circumvented by switching to console" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1205384
[20:34] <brainwash> it is the no. 1 bug in Lubuntu 13.10, normally one would expect a emergency fix within few days...
[20:35] <joossee> wow that does seem serious!
[20:36] <brainwash> it really is
[20:37] <joossee> ya i love lubuntu.. i think im on 12 and 11 though so...
[20:39] <brainwash> I'm not even using Lubuntu, but I've informed the people in #lubuntu and in this channel several times, also marked the bug report as "security" one, talked to the QA lubuntu guy and guess what... no change so far
[20:40] <brainwash> the package maintainer might be busy, but this is a serious issue
[20:40] <brainwash> if he does not have the time, he should assign someone else
[20:41] <joossee> remember "open source" means "i have a day job"
[20:42] <brainwash> this is no excuse for releasing a product with a major flaw
[20:50] <penguin42> brainwash: As I've said before, you could try asking the guy assigned to it if there is any progress
[20:52] <brainwash> penguin42: he does not react to the comment flood in the report
[20:53] <penguin42> brainwash: He may well have hundreds of bugs on his plate, but the other thing you can try after asking him nicely if he doesn't respond, you could try asking in #ubuntu-dev
[20:54] <penguin42> brainwash: But again, ubuntu gets released on a time basis, if something is broken in general it still gets released
[20:54] <penguin42> brainwash: and lubuntu isn't supported so - shrug
[20:55] <penguin42> brainwash: If you fix the problem and push a branch I'm sure you can get it merged
[20:55] <brainwash> but it's an official release
[20:55] <jtaylor> Id on't see a patch or a upstream bug there
[20:55] <brainwash> so some sort of QA should care about this kind of issues
[20:55] <penguin42> brainwash: It's not supported
[20:56] <brainwash> what a bummer
[20:57] <brainwash> jtaylor: the package maintainer is already assigned and knows about this problem, but there is still no fix available (check the dates)
[20:58] <penguin42> or at least I don't think it is - it does have a task: tag, so hmm
[21:00] <jtaylor> as I interpret his answer there is no solution
[21:02] <penguin42> hnnm hggdh did ping him on the 6th
[21:10] <penguin42> brainwash: The other thing I can't quite understand from that report is whether the  dm-tool command the reporter is using to lock the screen is normal; i.e. does this thing fail if you just wait for the system to lock screen or is it only if you use dm-tool?   If it's only when you use dm-tool it seems less of an issue
[21:12] <brainwash> the lubuntu/lxde session calls lxlock which triggers dm-tool
[21:14] <brainwash> it could be fixed by reverting the changes to lxlock, so it calls xscreensaver as first option... but xscreensaver is not part of the default lubuntu installation anymore
[21:14] <brainwash> and proper lightdm locking is available starting with 14.04 -> light-locker
[21:26] <penguin42> brainwash: So IMHO the right thing to do is wait a couple more days to see if he replies to hggdh's prod, and if he doesn't then hmm
[21:41] <brainwash> penguin42: right, "hmm"
[21:59] <penguin42> brainwash: I'm not sure what else I'd suggest; you could try asking the ubuntu-security guys, but the real mistake here seems to be the stuff went into the release too early


[00:02]  * ScottK wonders if dtchen has graduated from the ranks of the young whipersnappers to the old and grumpy?
[00:03] <dtchen> grumpiness seems proportionate to the number of patches in debian/patches/
[00:05] <_16aR_> dtchen: lol
[00:07] <directhex> really? what's the threshhold from "normal" to "bah"?
[00:11] <_16aR_> Anyone already in the REVU group for package upload can review any package ?
[00:11] <jdong> directhex: you'd get a kick out of this... MonoDevelop 1.9.1, middle-pasting with an empty clipboard == NullPointerException
[00:11] <jdong> :D
[00:12] <directhex> jdong, srsly? that's been reported upstream?
[00:13] <jdong> directhex: I just experienced it and I don't feel like restarting X at this very moment to reproduce :)
[00:13] <jdong> (no innuendo intended)
[00:15] <dtchen> directhex: roughly, "when my eyes bleed"
[00:16] <dtchen> directhex: now, i can sustain quite a bit of "pos_adj = (pos_adj * runtime->rate + 47999) / 48000;", but there is a limit.
[00:17]  * directhex declares said limit to be "twelvety"
[00:20] <jdong> directhex: http://paste.ubuntu.com/113834/
[00:20] <jdong> confirmed.
[00:20] <jdong> you also can't undo pastes :D
[00:20] <directhex> jdong, and this is alpha 1?
[00:21] <jdong> alpha 2, 1.9.1
[00:21] <jdong> the latest tagged version with tarball
[00:21] <jdong> the mono stack was compiled from mono's project website sources
[00:22] <directhex> jdong, i think you should head to gimpnet
[00:29]  * nhandler remembers that today is the day MC nominations end. That means next week is a vote
[00:30] <EagleScreen> I have been learning basic Debian/Ubuntu packaging, I would like to become a MOTU member :D
[00:30] <nhandler> EagleScreen: Look at the channel topic for a link that explains how to get started
[00:30] <EagleScreen> yes, i am reading
[00:31] <EagleScreen> i am reading about REVU now
[00:34] <nhandler> EagleScreen: If you are just starting, you should try some other tasks like patching bugs before you try to package something from scratch
[00:36] <EagleScreen> i haven't got any program packaged from scratch for now..
[00:37] <EagleScreen> i know make patches, and rebuild source packages, i have some packages from another deb-based distributions which could be in Ubuntu
[01:14] <EagleScreen> is REVU only for entirely new packages?
[01:14] <ScottK> Yes
[01:15] <EagleScreen> what about one package that was in hardy but not in intrepid and jaunty by the moment?
[01:18] <nhandler> EagleScreen: Why did it get removed from the repositories?
[01:19] <ScottK> And is it in Debian?
[01:19] <EagleScreen> I supuse becouse it comes from Debian, and it was out of Debian archive temporary
[01:20] <EagleScreen> now it is in Debian unstable
[01:20] <EagleScreen> i am talking about reportbug-ng
[01:21] <EagleScreen> it has been ported from Qt3/KDE3 to Qt4/KDE4 and now uses more python modules as python-debianbts, python-debianbts is in jaunty.
[01:22] <EagleScreen> may be if it is now in Debian usntable, it will automatically merged to Ubuntu.
[01:22] <EagleScreen> but i am not sure
[01:24] <ScottK> What package are we discussing?
[01:25] <EagleScreen> i told you reportbug-ng
[01:26] <ScottK> Ah.
[01:26] <ScottK> Missed that.
[01:26] <ScottK> Why do we want it back?
[01:27] <EagleScreen> i think it is a good package, someone can manage his Debian bugs while it is using Ubuntu
[01:27] <EagleScreen> i have uploaded it to me ppa
[01:27] <EagleScreen> waiting for a dependency to built to can use it in intrepid
[01:29] <EagleScreen> many people whose contribute to Ubuntu contribute also to Debian and they will want to have these kind of packages
[01:29] <ScottK> reportbug-ng got removed because it was a horrid disaster.
[01:30]  * ScottK does his Debian work just fine without it.
[01:30] <ScottK> Has it really gotten so much better?
[01:30] <EagleScreen> the new version is good, it works well
[01:42] <EagleScreen> python-debianbts es un paquete virtual? qué significa eso?
[01:44] <EagleScreen> aptitude tell me that python-debianbts is a virtual package, what does it mean? reportbug-ng depends on python-debianbts and it is not listed in repository
[01:46] <sven777> hi I have another question - the FAQs say that packages uploaded to REVU need to have 2 MOTU advocates.  Does this happen automatically or do I need to do something to make it happen?
[01:46] <Hobbsee> EagleScreen: http://www.linuxtopia.org/online_books/linux_system_administration/debian_linux_guides/debian_linux_faq/ch-pkg_basics.en_007.html
[01:48] <nhandler> sven777: MOTUs go through the queue when they have time. However, asking in here on Fridays is a good way to get advocates
[01:48] <EagleScreen> it is the same as meta-package?
[01:48] <sven777> nhandler - oh ok.  Thanks much for that info.  :)
[01:51] <Hobbsee> EagleScreen: no.
[01:54] <EagleScreen> i have uploaded python-debianbts to my ppa, but it is not listed by synaptic, any idea?
[01:55] <Hobbsee> how long ago did you upload it?
[01:55] <EagleScreen> minutes ago
[01:55] <EagleScreen> but it is built yet
[01:56] <EagleScreen> i will wait sime time, may be it will appear later
[01:56] <Hobbsee> it takes a while to actually public
[01:56] <nhandler> EagleScreen: Is your PPA in your /etc/apt/sources.list file? And did you do an apt-get update?
[01:56] <Hobbsee> er, publish
[01:57] <EagleScreen> yes, ofcourse i have installed various packages from my ppa
[01:59] <nhandler> EagleScreen: Ok, just making sure
[02:06] <anakron> Hi all
[02:08] <EagleScreen> hi
[02:08] <EagleScreen> my package finally appeared :D
[02:08] <anakron> wich one
[02:09] <nhandler> Glad to hear that EagleScreen
[02:09] <anakron> im a bit newbie...how i can be maintainer of a package
[02:09] <nhandler> anakron: Ubuntu (for the most part) doesn't have individual package maintainers like Debian does. We maintain them as a team
[02:10] <anakron> yes i know
[02:10] <nhandler> You can "Maintain" the package by patching bugs, keeping it up-to-date, and forwarding changes/bugs upstream
[02:10] <EagleScreen> but now i have version problem: reportbug-ng cannot be installed because depends on python-debianbts <= 0.3 and available is 0.3~intrepid1~ppa2, i will have to build it again with an upper version :(
[02:11] <anakron> keeping it up-to-date >>> sync and merge?
[02:11] <nhandler> If it is in Debian, yes
[02:11] <anakron> and...how you can k-i-u-t-d if a package is from...gnome
[02:11] <EagleScreen> i am trying to sync reportbug-ng
[02:12] <anakron> like the last version of gdesklets
[02:12] <anakron> that come with some bugs fixed
[02:12] <nhandler> anakron: Is it also in Debian?
[02:12] <EagleScreen> if I sync a package from Debian.. must I upload it to REVU??
[02:12] <anakron> yes, but the new version is not in debian
[02:13] <nhandler> anakron: I would contact the Debian Maintainer and see if they plan on updating their package. Chances are, this will not happen until after February 14 (lenny release)
[02:13] <anakron> ok
[02:41] <anakron> someone can say me an app written in python
[02:42] <anakron> tell me some of them
[02:46] <Hobbsee> anakron: http://www.google.com.au/search?q=application+written+in+python&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=com.ubuntu:en-US:unofficial&client=firefox-a
[02:46] <anakron> thanks
[02:46] <anakron> im trying to find an example
[02:46] <anakron> for fix a bug
[02:52] <anakron> Scottk?
[02:52] <anakron> ping Scottk
[02:52] <ScottK> Yes?
[02:53] <anakron> we were talking about a bug of catfish
[02:53] <ScottK> Any of the packages that the pythonistas or pythoneers teams are subscribed to are written in Python.
[02:53] <anakron> and you ask for it in python channel
[02:53] <anakron> yes, i was looking for one that i use
[02:53] <ScottK> No, I suggested you ask your question in #python.
[02:53] <anakron> but i cant access
[02:55] <ScottK> Try /join #python in your IRC client.  Works here.
[03:22] <EagleScreen> reportbug-ng is finally working well for me in intrepid
[03:55] <ScottK> I'm fairly certain that's a package we only want to get from Debian.
[07:09] <didrocks> morning
[09:57] <DktrKranz> RAOF: do you plan to update gnome-do to latest release?
[10:03] <zMoo> hi, iulian
[10:05] <zMoo> The proposal for a new format of debian/copyright (http://wiki.debian.org/Proposals/CopyrightFormat) does't seem to be stable
[10:05] <zMoo> do you really think I should use it?
[10:06] <zMoo> Now, everyfiles of the package are licensed under the GPL v3
[10:07] <zMoo> (I'm taliking about the "swac-play" package)
[10:14] <fta> anyone working on updating the googleearth-package for google earth 5?
[10:14] <fta> can't find anything in debian
[10:15] <fta> hm, it's maintained in a private bzr branch (not on lp)
[10:15] <iulian> zMoo: Well, I recommend it.
[10:16] <fta> does this mean we can't update it?
[10:18] <zMoo> iulian: so I put something like "http://wiki.debian.org/Proposals/CopyrightFormat?action=recall&rev=143" for the field "Format-Specification" ?
[10:19] <zMoo> you think, the format will not evoluate anymore?
[10:19] <liw> I doubt the format will change all that much, but it's also not time yet to push for it to be adopted, I think
[10:20] <iulian> zMoo: If that's what it says there, yes.
[10:20] <zMoo> ok
[10:20] <zMoo> I just have to find the number of the current revision
[10:21] <zMoo> iulian: another problem.
[10:21] <zMoo> I can not see any value for the GPL3+ license
[10:23] <zMoo> I used the GPLv3+ as recommended in http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-howto.html
[10:23] <iulian> zMoo: Just mention GPL-3+.
[10:24] <zMoo> :)
[10:24] <iulian> Take a look at http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/g/git-cola/current/copyright for an example.
[10:26] <iulian> zMoo: License keywords:  GPL-3+
[10:26] <iulian> GNU General Public License, version 3 or later
[10:39] <directhex> i support iulian on this. the copyright format is nice even for human-readability
[11:31] <zMoo> iulian: the new package for swac-play is ready :)
[11:42] <iulian> Great.
[11:45] <zMoo> iulian: It's time to eat. See you
[12:39] <khashayar> mok0: New upload http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=pencil fixes all (but one) problem; if you find the time :-)
[12:40] <mok0> khashayar: that's great
[12:40] <mok0> khashayar: I'll take a look later todayt
[12:40] <khashayar> mok0: Thanks!
[12:40] <khashayar> mok0: Do you think you could take a look at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=rtirq as well. It should be an easy one ;-)
[12:41] <mok0> khashayar: ok, will do
[12:41] <khashayar> Cheers!
[12:42] <nhandler> khashayar: I should be free around 23:00 UTC to give the packages another review if you want
[12:47] <khashayar> nhandler: Thanks. I'll try to make new updates before 23:00 UTC, then, if need be.
[12:51] <savvas> what does this mean for dpkg --compare-versions: lt-nl ?
[12:53] <Hobbsee> man dpkg?
[12:53] <Hobbsee> oh
[12:53] <Hobbsee> it's less than - something
[12:54] <Hobbsee>  otherwise. There are two groups of
[12:54] <Hobbsee>               operators, which differ in how they treat an empty ver1 or ver2. These treat  an  empty  version  as
[12:54] <Hobbsee>               earlier than any version: lt le eq ne ge gt. These treat an empty version as later than any version:
[12:54] <Hobbsee>               lt-nl le-nl ge-nl gt-nl. These are provided only for compatibility with control file syntax: < << <=
[12:54] <Hobbsee>               = >= >> >.
[12:56] <savvas> Hobbsee: could you give me an example? or does lt-nl mean < ?
[12:57] <loic-m> Hobbsee: I can understand what you're quoting, but it's worded only slightly better than a quantum mechanics article ;)
[12:58] <savvas> true :P
[12:59] <loic-m> I'm sure the man page author was just short of throwing a bit of xml at it
[13:00] <fta> savvas, "a lt b" is equal to "a lt-nl b" if both a and b are not empty/null/undefined
[13:01] <fta> if either a or b could be empty/missing, use the -nl variant to be sure that dpkg --compare-versions won't fail, so you get a predictable result
[13:02] <fta> very handy for scripts
[13:02] <Hobbsee> loic-m: indeed...
[13:03] <Hobbsee> loic-m: that'll teach me not to answer questoins close to midnight
[13:04] <loic-m> Hobbsee: hehe
[13:21] <zMoo> hi, iulian
[13:21] <khashayar> mok0: About the wrong street address in LICENSE (wrt the rtirq package): This file is part of the upstream tarball. Do I need wait for a new release, or can I mention this somewhere in the packaging before upstream fixes it with a new LICENSE?
[13:30] <iulian> zMoo: Hiya
[13:37] <piratenaapje> $visitor->language = reset(explode(',', $_SERVER["HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE"]));
[13:37] <piratenaapje> wow php is vies spannend
[13:37] <piratenaapje> Hmm, something tells me this is not the channel I wanted to paste that in
[13:37] <zMoo> iulian: I've just uploaded a new package. I think, this time, is the good one :)
[13:38] <iulian> zMoo: Excellent.  I will have a look at it.
[13:38] <zMoo> iulian: it's really pleasant to work with you
[13:38] <iulian> Of course.
[13:57] <iulian> zMoo: debian/copyright:  Please replace <http://www.gnu.org/licenses/> with /usr/share/common-licenses/GPL-3.
[13:58] <zMoo> iulian: arf :)
[14:03] <cody-somerville> What is the argument to pass to debuild to set the Distribution field in the changesfile?
[14:08] <zMoo> iulian: Done \o/
[14:14] <iulian> zMoo: I've just advocated it.
[14:16] <zMoo> iulian: \o/ Houra
[14:17] <zMoo> iulian: I've reported all changes on the other package swac-scan
[14:17] <khashayar> mok0: Whenever you feel that urge of re-revuing, rtirq is now moved to http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=rtirq-init :-)
[14:18] <mok0> khashayar: ah, but you don't need to rename the source package
[14:19] <mok0> khashayar: I meant just changing the name of the binary package, in debian/control...
[14:20] <mok0> khashayar: it's actually best to keep the source package name the same as upstream's tarball (except for general Debian policy on package names)
[14:20] <khashayar> Ah, I see :-p
[14:20] <khashayar> I'll do that then. Any way to remove rtirq-init from revu?
[14:20] <mok0> khashayar: You understand now? It's a one-line change in control
[14:21] <mok0> khashayar: I can nuke it :-)
[14:21] <khashayar> Yes, I get it. Thanks. Please nuke :-)
[14:21] <iulian> zMoo: Yes, I've seen that.  I'm reviewing it now.
[14:22] <mok0> khashayar: anyways I'm busy looking at pencil, so take your time
[14:22] <khashayar> Cool.
[14:22] <zMoo> iulian: Excellent!
[14:23] <iulian> zMoo: Reviewed and advocated.
[14:24] <zMoo> iulian: Thank very much
[14:26] <RainCT> heya
[14:28]  * iulian prods RainCT.
[14:34] <zMoo> hi RainCT & pochu. My packages have been advocated by iulian! I offer a free collection of bielorussian words to the second advocate! :]
[14:41] <RainCT> zMoo: is compat level 7 necessary for some reason?
[14:42] <zMoo> I don't think so
[14:43] <RainCT> Why do you use it then? This is a very minor issue, but using high compat levels for the sake of doing so just increases the difficulty to backport a package
[14:43] <zMoo> my debin/compat was generated by dh_make :)
[14:43] <zMoo> *debian/compat
[14:44] <zMoo> Is it a good answer?
[14:44]  * zMoo => []
[14:44] <RainCT> Rather, no. And you blindly trust dh_make?
[14:44] <RainCT> :P
[14:44] <RainCT> hehe
[14:45] <RainCT> (If you don't change this now, I'll survive anyway ;))
[14:45] <zMoo> I just have to restart my laptop, and I change it
[14:45] <RainCT> zMoo: Format-Specification in debian/copyright is missing the revision number
[14:46] <khashayar> RainCT: I though it was recommended to use compat = 7, standards version = 3.8.0. Won't there be lintian warnings otherwise?
[14:46] <khashayar> (I'm just asking because in all my packaging efforts I set those versions :-/)
[14:47] <RainCT> khashayar: No. Standards version should always be the latest, but the same doesn't apply to compat. You can choose between any compat level (well, that it number 4 or above, 1/2/3 are deprecated) depending on which new features you need
[14:48] <zMoo> RainCT: for the revision, I did the same thing like iulian in http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/g/git-cola/current/copyright
[14:48] <khashayar> RainCT: I see. I guess 6 should be good figure then, as that's what hardy's using. Correct?
[14:48] <zMoo> and I did find the revision number of the document
[14:48] <zMoo> *didn't
[14:49] <iulian> I believe the revision number doesn't matter so much since the specification is not pushed.
[14:50] <RainCT> khashayar: Yes, 6 should be acceptable (but you could get it even lower, or use a higher one if you want some new behaviour introduced with a later version.. see  man debhelper  for information on all levels). But as I said, this is just a nit-pick, it's good to consider but isn't really a must.. Using level 7 won't kill cats or anything :)
[14:50] <khashayar> RainCT: Good to know. Learning something new every day :-)
[14:51] <RainCT> iulian: the specification says there must be the revision, as I understand it
[14:51] <mok0> khashayar: comment ready for you, for pencil
[14:52] <iulian> RainCT: Ah, well, then append the revision number to that url, zMoo.
[14:52] <RainCT> zMoo: I can't find anything else to complain about, will have a look at the resulting .deb now :)
[14:53]  * RainCT updates cowbuilder
[14:59]  * henrik-hw0 thanks mok0
[15:00] <mok0> henrik-hw0: it would be good to get a second advocate quickly, so we can build your cdemu stuff without funny business
[15:01] <mok0> Any MOTUs ready to give a 2nd advocation of libmirage?
[15:01] <mok0> MOTUs: ^
[15:03] <mok0> Tip to ppl seeking review: if you know your package falls in the special area of one of the special Ubuntu distros (Kubuntu, Ubuntu Studio, etc.) try to look for a MOTU in that area
[15:04] <henrik-hw0> mok0: indeed. especially since that package contains the parts reusable by other projects as well.
[15:04] <mok0> henrik-hw0: good point
[15:07] <zMoo> RainCT: I think, I have to use compat V7 (I use a new fonctionnality of dh_clean in my debian/rules)
[15:18]  * pochu wonders who has applied for the Council vacant :)
[15:20]  * RainCT is happy at archive reorg :)
[15:20] <pochu> hi RainCT
[15:20] <pochu> me too :)
[15:21] <jpds> How isn't?
[15:21] <jpds> Who*
[15:21] <RainCT> hehe
[15:23] <mok0> We really should put the newly uploaded packages from REVU onto a bzr repo
[15:24] <mok0> RainCT: you think that revu could stash things away in a bzr repo?
[15:24] <RainCT> mok0: That's already done automatically
[15:25] <mok0> RainCT: really? where?
[15:25] <RainCT> mok0: VCS for everything spec? :P
[15:25] <RainCT> Or do you mean a repo for packages *before* they enter Ubuntu?
[15:25] <mok0> RainCT: I didn't know it was already working
[15:25] <Laney> maybe that could be a new use for revu-uploaders
[15:26] <mok0> RainCT: actually , yes I did
[15:26] <Laney> bzr push lp:~revu-uploaders/mycoolnewpackage
[15:26] <RainCT> Uhm.. I guess I should cancel my team deletion request then :P
[15:26] <mok0> Sometimes there's a trivial thing you'd like to fix before advocation, like a spelling mistake, and it's kinda cruel to ask for another upload just for that
[15:27] <mok0> RainCT: perhaps you should
[15:27] <Laney> just an idea
[15:27] <Laney> LP allows users to set the "state" of branches too
[15:28] <RainCT> yes, that's an interesting idea
[15:28] <Laney> Although, I don't know if we need revu-uploaders for it.
[15:28] <Laney> People can just push to their own space
[15:29] <mok0> Laney: sure, but it would be nice to have all branches collected in 1 place
[15:29] <Laney> mok0: Yeah, the revu website
[15:29] <Laney> or you could propose for merging into some central "pleaes review me" place
[15:29] <mok0> Laney: yeah... I guess...
[15:30] <zMoo> RainCT: the new package in online (I didn't change the compat version number)
[15:30] <Laney> or revu could support bzr directly
[15:30] <RainCT> zMoo: okay
[15:30] <zMoo> *is online
[15:30] <mok0> Laney: I like that last idea
[15:31] <Laney> Actually I like the idea of using LP's code review facilities
[15:31] <RainCT> it would be great if LP supported branches owned by several teams (eg, the uploader + MOTU) :P
[15:31] <mok0> Laney: but I think the crucial thing is that MOTUs should have write access to the place where people put their branches, so we can fix small issues
[15:31] <mok0> RainCT: exactly
[15:32] <Laney> hmm
[15:32] <mok0> In that sense, ppl should just ask for their personal branches to be merged into the MOTUs repo
[15:33] <Laney> but then if it gets merged they can't modify it any more
[15:33] <mok0> Laney: no, but they can upload their fixes to their own place and those could be merge
[15:33] <mok0> d
[15:34] <mok0> or pulled
[15:34]  * mok0 is no bzr wizard
[15:34] <mok0> yet
[15:35] <Laney> I dunno, it seems like it would be easier for everyone to just be able to push
[15:35] <mok0> Laney: I just advocated a package with a spelling mistake in the description, it would be nice to just be able to fix it
[15:35] <Laney> to the same place
[15:35]  * RainCT thinks we should better wait for the spec to be fully implemented before looking how REVU could do something with bzr
[15:36] <mok0> Laney: Hm, so the repo belongs to revu-uploaders, who everybody is a member of?
[15:36] <Laney> mok0: You could
[15:36] <Laney> fix the mistake, upload and then advocate your version
[15:36] <mok0> RainCT: of course, just brain fscking here :-)
[15:36] <Laney> RainCT: Hm, I dunno. It doesn't really deal with new packages
[15:37] <Laney> I think all of the machinery for doing actual packaging in bzr is there, unless I'm mistaken
[15:37] <mok0> Laney: true, but it would be eazier if you had your copy from bazaar, you could just push your mods
[15:37] <Laney> it would
[15:37] <mok0> Laney: ...and the uploader could pull your mods
[15:38] <Laney> moreover, the uploader wouldn't even be able to push their own changes until merging yours
[15:38] <jpds> Do we VCS everything or just the debian/ dir?
[15:38] <Laney> (without --overwrite?)
[15:38] <Laney> usually just debian/
[15:38] <mok0> OK, that requires a watchfile
[15:38] <Laney> (with SVN, I think bzr has some crazy looms thing)
[15:38] <mok0> looms?
[15:39] <Laney> mok0: See https://wiki.kubuntu.org/NoMoreSourcePackages
[15:39] <Laney> It's the new way of doing patches
[15:40] <Laney> s/new/bzr/
[15:40] <mok0> Laney: Yeah. I'm not so hot on using it for patches, though
[15:40] <Laney> yeah, and that will have to wait until this gets done anyway
[15:41] <Laney> you can still do it the normal way
[15:41] <mok0> Laney: but as a way of interacting with uploaders of new packages, I think it would be cool
[15:42] <Laney> certainly
[15:44] <jpds> Laney: That loom thing looks so cool.
[15:44] <Laney> yeah - it's basically another view on quilt patches, which is good
[15:45] <mok0> Hm, Laney, in the document you URL'ed above, it says: "For packages uploaded via a revision control build request, there would be no source package, instead the buildd needs to check out the required revision control branch and build the binaries and source package from that." That implies that upstream's source is also in there
[15:45] <Laney> mok0: I think there's a loom for the upstream source
[15:45] <Laney> and everything else sits on top of it
[15:45] <Laney> i.e. upstream is basically "patch 0""
[15:45] <mok0> Laney: I see
[15:45] <mok0> Cool
[15:46] <Laney> so to update to a new upstream version you just touch that loom, then carry on up the stack fixing the looms as they generate conflicts
[15:50]  * RainCT uploads a new ubuntu-dev-tools version
[15:50]  * mok0 wonders if Debian can be persuaded to work on LP for new packages that start their life in Ubuntu
[15:50]  * Laney giggles
[15:51] <Laney> alioth supports bzr, though
[15:51] <mok0> Laney: ok, so the whole branch could migrate there
[15:51] <jpds> RainCT: Remeber to bzr tag it.
[15:51] <RainCT> jpds: how is that done?
[15:52] <jpds> RainCT: bzr tag -r NN 0.6N
[15:52] <jpds> Where NN is revision of upload.
[15:52] <RainCT> and the 0.6N?
[15:52] <RainCT> ah ok
[15:52] <RainCT> :P
[15:52] <jpds> RainCT: Whatever version you uploaded ;-)
[15:52] <jpds> RainCT: i.e bzr tags
[15:54] <Laney> jpds: Does debcommit -r work with bzr?
[15:54] <jpds> Laney: Never used that.
[15:54] <Laney> mmk
[15:54] <RainCT> jpds: wow, what it you who has tagget all past uploads?
[15:54] <Laney> it's supposed to commit and tag
[15:54] <jpds> Laney: Manpage claims to.
[15:54] <jpds> RainCT: Yep.
[15:54] <RainCT> debcommit rocks, you should use it :)
[15:55] <Laney> does it create a new blank changelog entry?
[15:55] <Laney> (that would be sexy)
[15:59] <RainCT> iulian: have you tried if swac-play works?
[16:00] <RainCT> (it's not installable on Hardy and I would like to avoid starting a VM now..)
[16:00] <RainCT> s/Hardy/Intrepid
[16:02] <RainCT> nice, edge.'s +archive package has Ajax :)
[16:03] <RainCT> *package = page
[16:03] <RainCT> :(
[16:04] <jpds> The evil green flash?
[16:05] <RainCT> yes
[16:05] <RainCT> And it is evil indeed.. The fact that it is Ajax is cool :P
[16:08] <mok0> Huh? What green flash?
[16:09] <RainCT> mok0: https://edge.launchpad.net/~do-testers/+archive/ppa
[16:09] <mok0> ah
[16:09] <mok0> heh
[16:10] <RainCT> mok0: ah, I asked you yesterday if you have already touched anything in index.py
[16:10] <RainCT> (in REVU)
[16:10] <mok0> I haven't pushed anything yet
[16:10] <RainCT> mok0: but modified? (so that I don't do many changes there which will then conflict with yours :P)
[16:11] <mok0> RainCT: I can pull?
[16:11] <RainCT> mok0: sure
[16:12] <mok0> ah, merge
[16:13] <RainCT> uhh
[16:13] <mok0> Ah, the only real change I've done is so that you get a line number on the listing
[16:13] <mok0> I can push that and you can see if you want to use it
[16:14] <RainCT> mok0: Not sure what you mean, but okay
[16:14] <mok0> RainCT: on the webpage, in each table the package is numbered from the top, starting with 1, so you can easily see how many there are
[16:15]  * RainCT doesn't like that :P
[16:15] <mok0> RainCT: adds another column to the html table, on the left hand side
[16:15] <mok0> RainCT: why?
[16:15] <RainCT> just adding   (X)   next to the section name should do the job
[16:15] <mok0> RainCT: right
[16:15] <mok0> that's better
[16:15] <RainCT> I don't seen any use for it and it clutters the interface
[16:16] <Laney> It would imply that REVU is a queue too, at least to me
[16:16] <RainCT> (adding it on every line, that is)
[16:16] <mok0> True
[16:16] <RainCT> And today I'm doing some sort of typo in every line I write XD
[16:16] <mok0> Well, it's taught me a bit about how this template thing works :-)
[16:17] <RainCT> that's always good :)
[16:18] <RainCT> zMoo: seems like iulian is away.. You're sure the .deb works fine, right?
[16:18] <zMoo> yes
[16:18] <zMoo> RainCT
[16:18] <zMoo> I'll try again
[16:19] <bddebian> Hi folks
[16:19] <mok0> RainCT: I am thinking that perhaps adding some SQL tables might eliminate the need for doing these complex queries, but how to keep the info consistent, if it's duplicated?
[16:20] <Laney> urgh, don't duplicate in a database
[16:21] <RainCT> mok0: where is it duplicated?
[16:21] <RainCT> zMoo: Uploading :)
[16:21] <mok0> RainCT: Don't know, yet :-)
[16:21] <RainCT> lol
[16:22] <mok0> RainCT: for example, if a package is advocated, I'd like to use that to bump the rung of the package
[16:23] <mok0> sorry, the rung of the sourcepackage
[16:23] <mok0> not the upload
[16:26] <RainCT> mok0: that still wouldn't allow us to remove the advocation table (advocates are associated to comments, which is good that way, and remember that they can also be added/removed after being given)
[16:26] <RainCT> jpds: can we get ubuntu-dev-tools backported to Intrepid?
[16:27] <mok0> RainCT: yes, but the advocation is not really a property of the comment, it's a property of the package
[16:27] <jpds> RainCT: Sure, file a request and I'll do it.
[16:27] <zMoo> RainCT: in fact I should add gstreazmer0.10_plugins-good in the dependences (it's not mendatory, but it'll be better)
[16:28] <zMoo> *dependances
[16:29] <RainCT> zMoo: oh. you can get a new revision in once the package has been accepted.
[16:29] <zMoo> RainCT: I did't see "Uploading"
[16:29] <zMoo> in fact, this dependance is not mendatory
[16:30] <RainCT> zMoo: it should be a Recommends then
[16:30] <zMoo> yes
[16:30] <RainCT> jpds: do I need to write something particular in the description?
[16:30] <zMoo> "<RainCT> zMoo: Uploading :)" Houra \o/
[16:31] <jpds> RainCT: "It builds, works, runs and has all dependencies in intrpeid."
[16:34] <mok0> Hm how do I get back a file from bzr that I've deleted?
[16:35] <RainCT> mok0: bzr revert <file>
[16:35] <mok0> thx
[16:37] <RainCT> jpds: bug 325812
[16:39] <jpds> RainCT: ACKed.
[16:40] <RainCT> jpds: Great. And now an archive-admin does the backport?
[16:40] <jpds> RainCT: Yes.
[16:41] <mok0> RainCT: When I try to bzr pull, it tells me the branches have diverged, but when I do bzr merge it says "nothing to do"
[16:41] <RainCT> mok0: are you merging the right branch?
[16:41] <mok0> RainCT: perhaps not
[16:41] <RainCT> bzr merge lp:revu
[16:42] <mok0> RainCT: ah, that worked, now I have all your mods
[16:42] <mok0> RainCT: some of the files have "+N" others only "N" what does that mean?
[16:43] <RainCT> mok0: N is new. Not sure what the + is
[16:43] <mok0> Oh, my bad, it says "M" not "N"
[16:44] <RainCT> mok0: M = Modified
[16:44] <mok0> Ok, you added a bunch of "flot" stuff
[16:44] <RainCT> If there's an * it means that the permissions were modified. For the +, I don't know.
[16:44] <RainCT> mok0: Yep, that's for the graphics (and includes jQuery so we can add more fancy stuff anytime)
[16:45] <mok0> heh cool
[16:46] <mok0> RainCT: so I should just do the bzr merge lp:revu often, to keep up with your version?
[16:47] <RainCT> mok0: Yep. If you do now   bzr merge --remember lp:revu   afterwards   bzr merge   will be enough
[16:52] <mok0> RainCT: Mind if I change the format of the data field to RFC2822 format?
[16:52]  * Laney applies for things
[16:52] <mok0> s/data/date/
[16:52] <Laney> thanks james_w \o
[16:53] <james_w> Laney: no problem
[16:53] <RainCT> mok0: what's the difference?
[16:53] <mok0> RainCT: e.g. 27 Jan 2009 14:48
[16:53] <Laney> that's my birthday
[16:53] <mok0> RainCT: same as in changelog
[16:54] <mok0> Laney: :-) congrats
[16:54] <Laney> heh
[16:56] <khashayar> mok0: Thanks (re: pencil comments)
[16:56] <iulian> RainCT: What do you plan to do with ~revu-uploaders?
[16:56] <RainCT> iulian: it was discussed that it may be useful to do something with bzr in the future
[16:57] <RainCT> mok0: and how is it now? :P
[16:57] <iulian> RainCT: Ah, cool.
[16:57] <mok0>   	 January   27  13:57
[16:57] <RainCT> mok0: ok, feel free to change it, as long as you tell me how to update the DB :P
[16:58] <mok0> RainCT: it's just a change in index.py
[16:58] <RainCT> mok0: ahh ok
[16:58] <RainCT> mok0: Sure, do so. But remember to also modify this in the other files which show a date.
[16:58] <mok0> RainCT: ok, sure
[16:59] <zMoo> iulian: is everything ok with the second package? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=swac-scan
[17:00] <zMoo> the package is absent from the list of advocated packages
[17:00] <mok0> RainCT: another bzr question... now that I've merged your latest updates, I need to commit it, but that will create a dump log message like f.ex. "merging changes from trunk" or something.
[17:01] <walrus17> Okay thank you
[17:02] <zMoo> RainCT. I see. Thanks
[17:02] <mok0> RainCT: oh, I know, my question is will "message" eventually be part of trunk's log if my branch gets merged?
[17:03] <RainCT> mok0: iirc when you merge something the merged revision(s) will be in bazaar as "sub revisions" and you'll still be able to read their log messages (although they aren't displayed on Launchpad's interface)
[17:08] <mok0> RainCT: I was wondering about that, because it "pollutes" the history with a bunch of meaningless "merge from trunk" messages
[17:14] <RainCT> mok0: oh, don't worry because of that
[17:14] <RainCT> REVU has already enough meaningless commit messages as that a few more from you would make a difference *G*
[17:23] <sven777> if anyone feels like being generous, I'm still in need of advocates for my new package : http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=lmalinux   :)
[17:34] <porthose> iulian: I have made the requested changes to bug #269079, would you mind having a look at it when you have time.  Thanks :)
[17:42] <iulian> porthose: Sure.  I know that you know how to count.  Don't get me wrong.  I have just tried to explain.
[17:43] <jpds> Laney: I'm still waiting for huats 4000 friends to +1 him on the motu-council list.
[17:45] <RainCT> iulian: using multiple monitors works fine, at least using NVIDIA's configuration program
[17:49] <Laney> jpds: Probably waiting for his CC application. World domination ahoy
[17:49] <Laney> didrocks: I just notice that an SRU I did was in the release notes too \o/
[17:50] <nschembr> I checked with #ubuntu without any luck. I'm running ubuntu server without xwindow. I'm looking to  install xterm so I can push a xterm to a third box. I have no  need to install x11 and will never run x on this box. apt-get  wants to install the world.  Is there a way to force the  install without all of the dependencies.
[17:50] <nschembr> one package at a time.
[17:51] <didrocks> Laney: congrats ;)
[18:03] <LaserJock> anybody know of a good versioning scheme for git?
[18:04] <broonie> You mean for commit IDs?
[18:04] <jdong> dates?
[18:04] <henrik-hw0> superm1: ping!
[18:04] <porthose> Iulian:  Thank you for explaining it  :)
[18:04] <jdong> sha1sums sure aren't gonna help :D
[18:04] <LaserJock> jdong: yeah, but you can have a lot of commits in 1 date
[18:04] <superm1> henrik-hw0, pong
[18:04] <jdong> LaserJock: well number 'em up from 1 ;-)
[18:04] <broonie> LaserJock: git describe may work for you.
[18:04] <LaserJock> jdong: yikes
[18:04] <broonie> depending on how the repo is tagged.
[18:05] <henrik-hw0> superm1: Did have a talk with Keybuk.
[18:05] <jdong> LaserJock: well that's what I've seen done; and due to the way git names revisions I don't think there's a better idea than that :(
[18:05] <jdong> the obvious downside is that two independent packagers will surely end up with version number clashes
[18:05] <LaserJock> broonie: seems to work for some branches but not others
[18:06] <broonie> LaserJock: Yes, it works well if there's a tag in the history (in which case it gives a commit count since that tag).
[18:06] <broonie> plus the tag
[18:06] <LaserJock> ah, nifty
[18:06] <iulian> porthose: I've just uploaded it, thanks.
[18:06] <iulian> RainCT: Eh?
[18:06] <superm1> henrik-hw0, and what did you determine?
[18:06] <broonie> eg, my current Linux git branch is v2.6.29-rc3-573-g580406a
[18:06] <henrik-hw0> superm1: looks like the udev rules will have to stay for now.
[18:08] <henrik-hw0> superm1: udev gets the hw event and tries to modprobe. however modprobe fails. unknown cause.
[18:08] <RainCT> iulian: err, that was for Laney
[18:09] <iulian> Heh, OK.
[18:10] <superm1> henrik-hw0, so why does modprobe work the second time?
[18:10] <henrik-hw0> superm1: if you mean the udev rules i load the module by name rather than by modalias.
[18:11] <superm1> henrik-hw0, sounds like a bug in the module then?
[18:11] <henrik-hw0> superm1: it sure does.
[18:11] <superm1> henrik-hw0, well if you can file a bug with that upstream, and keep an eye on it to see when it gets fixed, and add some comments in the udev rule i can ack the package then
[18:17] <henrik-hw0> superm1: i don't have much hope in upstream giving a reply. :/ i want to check with "rtg" first. perhaps we should talk after that?
[18:18] <superm1> henrik-hw0, well if upstream isn't going to be responsive to bugs in their software, that's a good reason to not include their software in ubuntu though.
[18:19] <superm1> henrik-hw0, so i would recommend at least filing the bug with them.  we can talk more about it after you talk to rtg
[18:19] <henrik-hw0> superm1: ok.
[18:19] <superm1> but i think as long as the bug is filed and documented why the udev rules are necessary that packaging is otherwise in good shape
[18:23] <porthose> iulian: Thank you very much :)
[18:28] <savvas> fta: thanks for your answer about lt-nl before, I forgot to reply :)
[18:29] <savvas> the dpkg manual could surely be updated in that section
[18:30] <RainCT> Any python wizard around? If I have a list of numbers, how can I get those between which there is a minimum difference of 5 (eg, [1, 3, 7, 15, 20] would become [1, 7, 15, 20])?
[18:34] <maxb> I can't think of a one-liner, but as a for loop appending into a new list it's triival
[18:35] <RainCT> maxb: Yep, I was wondering if there's some inbuild way.
[18:35] <hyperair> maxb: how abnout a loop removing the elements from it
[18:36] <maxb> It's problematic in that you need to refer not to the previous entry, but the previous entry that you accepted
[18:36] <hyperair> wait, i think i can come up with one
[18:38] <RainCT> got it, almost
[18:38] <RainCT> [b.remove(x) for x in b if (x - b[b.index(x)-1]) < 5]
[18:38] <hyperair> for i in xrange(1, len(a)-1).     while (abs(a[i]-a[i-1])<5):             del a[i]
[18:38] <hyperair> i got this
[18:39] <hyperair> hmm that's interesting O_o
[18:48] <RainCT> maxb, hyperair: thanks
[18:48] <hyperair> RainCT: not at all, you came up with your solution yourself
[18:49] <RainCT> hyperair: well, but you gave me the needed inspiration :P
[18:49] <hyperair> um thanks
[18:49]  * hyperair wonders how my stumbling around could have given RainCT inspiration
[18:50] <RainCT> yeah.. I'm that weird *g*
[18:50] <hyperair> lol
[18:51] <Laney> RainCT: What's the final version?!
[18:56] <Laney> how do I find out how many packages are in universe/multiverse?
[18:56] <RainCT> maybe synaptic will tell you
[18:57] <Laney> synaptic knows, yeah
[18:57] <Laney> so where does it get that from!
[18:57] <RainCT> counting them, probably :P
[18:57] <RainCT> python-apt may also be able to do that
[18:57] <Laney> no, synaptic knows the section
[18:57] <Laney> I should be able to use grep-dctrl or something
[18:58]  * Laney pokes
[18:58] <pochu> apt-cache dump | grep universe may do the trick (haven't tried)
[18:58] <pochu> a bit hackish though ;)
[19:01] <Laney> laney@chicken:/var/lib/apt/lists$ grep Package archive.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_jaunty_universe_source_Sources | wc -l
[19:01] <Laney> 11799
[19:01] <RainCT> Laney: I get over 30.000 here..  That's what came out.
[19:07] <iulian> Ah-ha, great :)
[19:19] <hyperair> Laney: what came out?
[19:20] <Laney> http://identi.ca/avatar/1073-96-20090205190348.jpeg
[19:23] <RainCT> Laney: [keys.remove(x) for x in keys[1:-1] if (x - keys[keys.index(x)-1]) < 10]
[19:24] <rugby471> question : I am trying to patch an image in a debian package. The package is using the cdbs patch system, I can create a uuencoded patch, but do use the patch system (cdbs) to patch the image, or do I go by the instructions on this page (ie. create uuencoded files and simply add a uudecode in the build section of debian/rules) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Howtos/BinaryFilesInDiff
[19:24] <RainCT> rugby471: patch an image?
[19:25] <rugby471> ie. in the gconf-editor package
[19:25] <rugby471> there are some outdated images in the source package
[19:25] <rugby471> that I want to replace with newer ones
[19:25] <rugby471> I will propose the patch to upstream after
[19:25] <rugby471> but for the moment I want to replace them for Jaunty
[19:26] <RainCT> rugby471: then include an uuencoded version i debian/ and in debian/rules remove the original image and install the new images (after uudecoding) into their location
[19:26] <rugby471> kl
[19:26] <rugby471> thanks
[19:26] <RainCT> (remove the original image from debian/<pkgname>/.. that is)
[19:26] <RainCT> yw
[19:26] <rugby471> see ya RainCT !
[19:27] <hyperair> RainCT: i shudder to think how inefficient that code is =\
[19:27] <hyperair> RainCT: but it doesn't matter if you're handling small lists
[19:27] <RainCT> lol
[19:29] <hyperair> RainCT: how about replacing "for x in keys[1:-1] if (x - keys[keys.index(x)-1]) < 10" with "for i in xrange(1, len(keys)-1) if (keys[i] - keys[i-1]<10"
[19:29] <hyperair> RainCT: then you won't have the overhead of keys.index(x)
[19:35] <RainCT> hyperair: that won't work
[19:36] <hyperair> RainCT: why not
[19:36] <hyperair> uh i forgot a trailing ) it seems
[19:36] <hyperair> but yeah why won't it wokr
[19:37] <RainCT> hyperair: it gives "out of range"
[19:37] <RainCT> the size of the list changes as some items are removed..
[19:39] <hyperair> ah right
[19:39] <hyperair> shit
[19:51] <RainCT> jpds: Okay, the charts on REVU show the month and the year now :)
[19:52] <jpds> RainCT: Real cool.
[20:27] <nschembr_> I checked with #ubuntu first but no luck. I'm running ubuntu server. I want to install xterm without installing X11. Is there a way to use dpkg to install the base package and the dependances one at a time.
[20:28] <jpds> nschembr_: Try #ubuntu-server.
[20:28] <nschembr_> jpds: ok thank you
[21:24] <Laney> ooh, hdbc 2.0
[21:38] <Laney> guh, some of the deps are still in NEW. Debian is weeeeeeeeeeird that people upload packages in that state
[21:43] <pochu> well, it will just depwait ;)
[21:46] <jpds> maxb: Cannot wait till they merge the dev teams.
[21:47] <maxb> ?
[21:47] <jpds> Your bug report against u-d-t ;-)
[21:47] <RainCT> heh
[21:48] <maxb> well, that'll simplify other things, but I'm not a member of either so it doesn't really matter for that bug report :-)
[21:49] <pochu> which bug are we talking about? :)
[21:49] <jpds> bug #325923
[21:49] <pochu> ah I was looking here :) https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-dev-tools/+bugs
[22:04] <ScottK> Laney: Since Debian does binary uploads they can do that.
[22:07] <Laney> ScottK: I know they can, I just don't know why they would
[22:07] <directhex> ScottK, doesn't make it any less icky
[22:24] <ScottK> Well it makes the total time in New shorter if you do it in parallel instead of in series
[22:26] <Laney> the package with the deps is not in NEW
[22:26] <Laney> the deps themselves are
[22:26] <ScottK> Understand.
[22:27] <Laney> uploading it before they cleared just broke the package
[22:28] <ScottK> Sure.
[22:28] <Laney> hence the weirdness
[22:28]  * Laney will poke
[22:31] <surfaz> dtchen, 13.3 mb is the size of debdiff
[22:31] <surfaz> ... :(
[22:33] <dtchen> surfaz: right, don't worry about the size of the debdiff
[22:34] <surfaz> but also incluides po files changes
[22:34] <surfaz> and Mac OS X and Windows changes
[22:34] <surfaz> I do not know how to separate it
[22:36] <surfaz> I upload it?
[22:36] <dtchen> surfaz: ah, you can exclude OS X and Windows changes
[22:36] <surfaz> how?
[22:37] <dtchen> are those changes localised to specific directories, or are they #ifdef'd in the source alongside *nix?
[22:38] <dtchen> see also filterdiff(1), which is in the patchutils package
[22:47] <surfaz> now 4 mbs
[22:48] <surfaz> I use diff instead of debdiff
[23:08] <surfaz> done


 cups enabled and started (re @IrcsomeBot: <mparillo> Is cups enabled and started?)
[11:24] <noob8650> Hey, I have a problem with my package manager and I really don't know what to do about it: https://pastebin.com/raw/HNipELAJ           Can someone please help me? It happens when I try to install DigiKam.
[11:25] <tomreyn> noob8650: hi there. what's the exact command you're running, what's the kubuntu version you're on?
[11:26] <tomreyn> to get your version: lsb_release -ds; cat /proc/{version_signature,cmdline}
[11:27] <noob8650> tomreyn: I am on Ubuntu 20.04 , I tried "sudo apt install digikam" and there's some conflict.
[11:27] <noob8650> https://pastebin.com/raw/pDjzmtXM
[11:27] <noob8650> I have a few extra package sources, I can list them if you want tomreyn
[11:28] <tomreyn> "lvfs checsum error" is unrelated, we can discuss this afterwards.
[11:28] <noob8650> https://pastebin.com/raw/N1BBfQjqtomreyn:  I ran "sb_release -ds; cat /proc/{version_signature,cmdline}" here is the output:
[11:28] <tomreyn> !info digicam focal
[11:28] <noob8650> Sorry, I messed up the typing https://pastebin.com/raw/N1BBfQjq
[11:29] <tomreyn>  digikam | 4:6.4.0+dfsg-3build1 | focal/universe  | source, amd64, arm64, armhf, ppc64el, s390x
[11:30] <tomreyn>  digikam-private-libs | 4:6.4.0+dfsg-3build1 | focal/universe  | amd64, arm64, armhf, ppc64el, s390x
[11:30] <noob8650> ubottu: It does exist directly in the Package Manager: https://i.imgur.com/r7zwzIh.png
[11:30] <tomreyn> noob8650: did you run    sudo apt update    before you ran   sudo apt install digikam
[11:31] <noob8650> tomreyn: Yeah, but in the past I may not have
[11:32] <noob8650> tomreyn: "sudo apt update" output: https://pastebin.com/uh1zYbJn
[11:32] <tomreyn> can you show the output of this (it does not change your system, just gathers some info on apt and posts it online)?   sudo /bin/true && cat &>/tmp/aptlog < <(sudo grep -hEv '^([ ]*#.*)?$' /etc/apt/sources.list{,.d/*.list} 2>&1; sudo apt-get -y update 2>&1; apt-cache policy 2>&1; sudo apt-get -syV full-upgrade 2>&1;); nc termbin.com 9999 </tmp/aptlog && rm /tmp/aptlog
[11:33] <tomreyn> if that feels uneasy / wrong, that's ok, we can run them one by one, juts say so
[11:33] <tomreyn> also please show:   apt policy digikam-private-libs
[11:34] <noob8650> tomreyn: I am running your long command (hopefully nothing happens haha), here's the ouput: https://termbin.com/u902z      (hopefully it contains nothing embrarassing)
[11:35] <tomreyn> nothing embarassing there
[11:35] <noob8650> tomreyn: Output of "apt policy digikam-private-libs" : https://termbin.com/5rd8
[11:35] <tomreyn> this doesn't look bad
[11:36] <tomreyn> https://termbin.com/5rd8 just says "temp.txt"
[11:36] <noob8650> tomreyn: just realized my error, sorry
[11:36] <noob8650> tomreyn: Output of "apt policy digikam-private-libs" : https://termbin.com/eow6
[11:37] <noob8650> Is it maybe an issue that the signal messenger desktop app is from a Xenial ppa while I am on focal?
[11:38] <tomreyn> no that's fine, they just publish their application at this location but it works for multiple releases, it's just a misnomer
[11:39] <tomreyn> going back to the original error message - https://pastebin.com/raw/HNipELAJ says "digikam : Depends: digikam-private-libs (= 4:6.4.0+dfsg-3build1) but it is not going to be installed" which usually means that package digikam-private-libs in version 4:6.4.0+dfsg-3build1 was not known to be available. but:
[11:39] <noob8650> Okay, thanks for clearing that up. I hope I am not annoying you too much. Should I maybe remove so e ppa's? I installed the STM32CubeIDE using some sort of bash script, maybe that messed ssomething up?
[11:40] <tomreyn> ... but: https://termbin.com/eow6 tells us that package digikam-private-libs in version 4:6.4.0+dfsg-3build1 actually *IS* available.
[11:41] <tomreyn> so i'm guessing that if you just re-run    sudo apt install digikam   now it can actually work. can you try again?
[11:41] <noob8650> tomreyn: Hmmm, maybe I am "holding" some sort of package I shouldn't? I re-ran "sudo apt install digikam", the output is still informing me of broken pkgs
[11:41] <tomreyn> if it still errors with the "digikam : Depends: digikam-private-libs (= 4:6.4.0+dfsg-3build1) but it is not going to be installed" message, then try this instead:   sudo apt install digikam digikam-private-libs
[11:43] <noob8650> tomreyn: "sudo apt install digikam digikam-private-libs" : https://termbin.com/cd35
[11:43] <tomreyn> apt-mark showhold    lists held packages (in apt land - aptitude, if you use that, may hold packages differently)
[11:44] <tomreyn> so this https://termbin.com/cd35 tells us that digikam-private-libs could not be installed because it depends on libopencv-objdetect4.2 in a version equal to or grater than 4.2.0+dfsg - and this could not be installed for somereason.
[11:44] <noob8650> tomreyn: I went along with this idea a few times of installing manually what it claims is missing: https://termbin.com/a9fad
[11:45] <tomreyn> it's basically the same process as before now: just append   libopencv-objdetect4.2   to the   sudo apt install ...    line, i.e.    sudo apt install digikam digikam-private-libs libopencv-objdetect4.2     now
[11:46] <tomreyn> oh you did it already, good :)
[11:47] <tomreyn> maybe let's try a different strategy: looking at this dependency queue from the other end: which leftover packages do you have there?
[11:47] <tomreyn> apt list --installed | grep ',local\]$' | nc termbin.com 9999
[11:47] <noob8650> I'm feeling like a clown pulling on knotted-tissues: https://termbin.com/9luz
[11:49] <tomreyn> you have this    libopencv-highgui4.2    package installed in version   4.2.0+dfsg-5+20.04.sav2    which, i assume, is from some PPA. it's not the version (k)ubuntu provides
[11:49] <tomreyn>  libopencv-highgui4.2 | 4.2.0+dfsg-5 | focal/universe | amd64, arm64, armhf, ppc64el, riscv64, s390x
[11:50] <tomreyn> i.e. ubuntu's version is 4.2.0+dfsg-5 but not 4.2.0+dfsg-5+20.04.sav2
[11:50] <tomreyn> apt policy libopencv-highgui4.2    should tell you which repository yours is from
[11:50] <noob8650> hm, what should I do about it? Maybe remove the ppa source and uninstall the applications associated?
[11:51] <tomreyn> if those cause dependencies on your system to break, this may be a good strategy, yes
[11:51] <tomreyn> but you'll need to find out which PPA that is first of all.
[11:51] <noob8650> tomreyn: apt policy lobopencv-highgui4.2: https://termbin.com/fmvz
[11:52] <tomreyn> it's normal to 'feel like a clown' while analyzing dpkg dependency chains, this isn't entirely easy
[11:52] <noob8650> tomreyn: Looks like it's from the savoury blender ppa
[11:52] <noob8650> Should I uninstall blender, remove the ppa and then do update and try to install again?
[11:53] <tomreyn> yes, looks like. you could report to them that this dependency their PPA is introducing o your 20.04 system is causing unresolvable dependency chains.
[11:53] <tomreyn> if you can live with uninstalling the blender and its dependencies from this ppa, this should solve your dpeendency issues, yes
[11:54] <noob8650> Okay, trying now
[11:54] <tomreyn> you'll need to disable the PPA, and downgrade or uninstall the packages
[11:54] <noob8650> sudo apt remove blender: Package 'blender' is not installed, so not removed
[11:55] <noob8650> Maybe it has become a zombie of sorts?
[11:55] <tomreyn> so just downgrade the library after disabling the ppa
[11:55] <tomreyn> the command i provided above can list unknown packages and package *versions* *after* you removed a PPA: apt list --installed | grep ',local\]$' | nc termbin.com 9999
[11:56] <noob8650> tomreyn: How do  I disable it? Should I just remove the source in Discovery Package manager?
[11:56] <tomreyn> you can do that, yes, i *assume* it will keep a backup around in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/
[11:58] <noob8650> tomreyn: I ran your unknown packages command from above: https://termbin.com/5loc
[11:59] <noob8650> tomreyn:  /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ contents: https://termbin.com/3k7m
[11:59] <tomreyn> i think it will be a good idea to either remove or downgrade the packages listed with ".sav0" versions in this output
[12:00] <tomreyn> i'm referring to https://termbin.com/5loc
[12:00] <tomreyn> noob8650: did you disable the savoury1 blender PPA, yet?
[12:01] <noob8650> tomreyn: Yeah, I also tried installing digikam now, and it appears that savoury1 blender ppa was the exact issue. I guess the ppas wanted differing versions of the same archive? Or what happaned here?
[12:01] <noob8650> Anyways, thank you very much for your patience and also thanks for showing me that termbin tool, it's a cool little thing.
[12:02] <tomreyn> the savoury1 blender ppa introduced a package version with a dependendy on another package version which is neither in ubuntu nor provided by this PPA
[12:04] <tomreyn> the    apt list --installed | grep ',local\]$'    command should only ever list packages you know you have chosen to install manually as .deb files. all other lines listed there, if you don't know you need to keep those for some artificial reson, you probably should uninstall or, if they turn out to be needed still, downgrade to the package version in ubuntu
[12:04] <noob8650> tomreyn: Okay, I'll recheck and see if there's another one
[12:05] <tomreyn> so my recommendation there is to    apt --purge autoremove any of those you don't know you need -   but check the list of packages that would be removed as a result before you confirm!
[12:05] <noob8650> tomreyn: Okay, apart from the STM32 and the iscan-esci all others are there without me knowing. BUt I am assuming I can't just remove them?
[12:06] <tomreyn> and better do them one by one
[12:06] <noob8650> tomreyn: So with "sudo apt remove <pkg>"?
 so my recommendation there is to    apt --purge autoremove any of those you don't know you need -   but check the list of packages that would be removed as a result before you confirm!
[12:08] <noob8650> How do I dry-run that command?
[12:08] <tomreyn> --simulate
[12:09] <tomreyn> or --dry-run :) does the same
[12:09] <noob8650> tomreyn: This shouldn't heck my crap up, right? https://termbin.com/6gy6
[12:10] <noob8650> I uninstalled that kmymoney app, it was just a test.
[12:10] <tomreyn> you didn't provide any packages, so this now just operates on packages which were already marked to be autoremoved
[12:10] <noob8650> oh... okay
[12:11] <tomreyn> shouldn't be a problem, no
[12:11] <tomreyn> those are no longer being used
[12:12] <noob8650> tomreyn: should I try to purge all these that aren't "scan" or "stmlink" https://termbin.com/6gy6
[12:12] <tomreyn> my suggestion is to append (at least) any of the sav.0 packages from https://termbin.com/5loc to this command, one by one
[12:12] <tomreyn> or that, yes
[12:12] <noob8650> tomreyn: Yeah, the 5loc, I meant to link that but copied the wrong URL.
[12:13] <noob8650> Okay, trying those sav.0 ones
[12:13] <tomreyn> but, again, make sure you read and are happy with the packages those will purge then
[12:13] <tomreyn> because it could be your entire desktop
[12:14] <tomreyn> if it tries to remove something you still need then you should not purge but instead downgrade those packages to the version provided by ubuntu
[12:14] <noob8650> tomreyn: Okay, I think I'm doing it wrong anyways: https://termbin.com/46f4
[12:14] <tomreyn> just "libde265-0"
[12:14] <noob8650> Yeah, I'll be careful to avoid running something that'll be removing 105 packages at ounce
[12:14] <noob8650> okay
[12:15] <noob8650> tomreyn: Does this look sus to you? https://termbin.com/0d4r
[12:16] <noob8650> It shouldn't be removing gimp, right?
[12:16] <tomreyn> so gimp dpends on *a* version of this package. not neccessarily the one you have now (i'm sure it doesn't)
 if it tries to remove something you still need then you should not purge but instead downgrade those packages to the version provided by ubuntu
[12:17] <tomreyn> which is the version provided by ubuntu?  apt policy libde265-0
[12:18] <noob8650> Okay... so "apt downgrade libde265-0"?
[12:18] <tomreyn> how do you downgrade to that version?  apt install libde265-0=TARGETVERSION
[12:18] <tomreyn> you replace TARGETVERSION by the version that's listed in the "apt policy libde265-0" output for the ubuntu package
[12:19] <tomreyn> show    apt policy libde265-0 | nc termbin.com 9999    if you like
[12:19] <noob8650> So in this case https://termbin.com/hml9 it seems like that's already installed
[12:20] <tomreyn> the version listed on the line before /var/lib/dpkg/status is the one currently installed
[12:20] <tomreyn> also indicated by "***"
[12:21] <noob8650> So I want to install 1.0.4 instead of 1.0.8?
[12:21] <tomreyn> the version listed on the line before "http://de.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu focal/universe" is the one provided by the ubuntu archives
[12:21] <tomreyn> you want to downgrade to the package version in the ubuntu archives. that's version 1.0.4-1build1
[12:21] <tomreyn> so what do you run?
[12:22] <noob8650> tomreyn: Sorry, I don't know how to downgrade exactly.
[12:22] <tomreyn> apt install libde265-0=1.0.4-1build1
 how do you downgrade to that version?  apt install libde265-0=TARGETVERSION
[12:22] <tomreyn> 1.0.4-1build1 is your target version, the one in ubuntu
[12:23] <tomreyn> so you can downgrade from your current version (still from the blender PPA) to the version in ubuntu proper using    apt install libde265-0=1.0.4-1build1
[12:24] <noob8650> tomreyn: Okay, I downgraded: https://termbin.com/co43e    So I guess if I sheck that "apt-list" command from above it should stop showing that sav.0 package now? Testing...
[12:24] <tomreyn> i know, very complicated stuff, don't worry, you're not dumb ;)
[12:24] <tomreyn> yay, you did it!
[12:24] <noob8650> https://termbin.com/op9l
[12:24] <tomreyn> and correct assumption
[12:25] <noob8650> Whew, I have to do that for every sav.0 package in this list? The list: https://termbin.com/5loc
[12:25] <tomreyn> so... now you need to go back to the list of packages which have a similar problem and process those the same way
[12:25] <noob8650> Woah...
[12:26] <tomreyn> either outright purge, if you're lucky and that doesn't cause other packages you still need to be purged as well (such as gimp=, or downgrade
[12:26] <tomreyn> that's the kind of problems you can get yourself into by using PPAs
[12:27] <noob8650> Oh man... but how do I ever find a linux distro that "jus works"? I guess that's what I get from "new and shiny"
[12:27] <noob8650> Maybe I should try debian unstable?
[12:27] <tomreyn> kubuntu just works, it's just that you decided to go into the unsupported domain by adding PPAs
[12:27] <noob8650> Ah, no - I'll patch this up and now worry about it
[12:28] <noob8650> *not worry about it
[12:28] <noob8650> I guess I'm fine with the older versions. Is it "safer" to manually compile newer software?
[12:28] <noob8650> Or what would you do to have e.g. blender in newer versions?
[12:29] <tomreyn> personally, i'm fine with getting myself into such trouble, because i know how to resolve it, i'd probably be using a PPA, too, ideally one which seems to be well maintained and supported.
[12:29] <tomreyn> another option is to use snaps, which can help there, but can make things worse elsewhere
[12:29] <noob8650> tomreyn: Haha, yes you really do know how to get out of the problem
[12:29] <tomreyn> fortunately you also know now
[12:30] <noob8650> I hate how slow snpas are, I really notice it with xournal++ but I guess so
[12:30] <tomreyn> if you just go over the conversation again and take your notes on how to do this, you'll still know next time
[12:30] <noob8650> Oh well, eventually there might arise mor unity in the distro diaspora - we probably wouldn't have these problems if there weren't so many distros :/
[12:30] <noob8650> Yeah, I'm taking notes now
[12:32] <tomreyn> this is really just a matter of how well an apt repository is maintained. the PPA you used wasn't maintained well at the time.
[12:32] <tomreyn> but yes, you could also say that it would be nice if apt could provide better explanations on why it cannot install some package
[12:33] <tomreyn> there's a reason that every PPA web page says that you risk your system's health by installing "unsupported software from this PPA"
[12:34] <tomreyn> this said, there are well-maintained PPAs, it's just not always easy to tell those apart.
[12:34] <noob8650> Oh, is there a blender ppa you can reccomend more?
[12:34] <tomreyn> i would not know, sorry
[12:34] <tomreyn> i don't use blender myself
[12:35] <noob8650> tomreyn: No reason to apologize. I am *really* thankful for you patient help. I'll write the crucial commands down in cherrytree for noteteaking :)
[12:35] <noob8650> Are you a programmer?
[12:35] <tomreyn> no, just a lousy sysadmin and a couple other things ;)
[12:36] <tomreyn> there is one more thing you should fix up. earlier, while diagnosing the package version dependency chain, you came up with this output: https://termbin.com/9luz
[12:38] <tomreyn> it says "set to manually installed" for some packages. that means that apt has applied a change here, setting packages, which were previously set to be automatically instlalled (to resolve another packages' dependencies) to (now) be set to manually installed (like a package you have intentionally chosen to be installed, such as gimp or blender). you should undo this change:
[12:39] <tomreyn> sudo apt-mark auto libavcodec58 libavformat58 libavutil56 libswscale5
[12:39] <noob8650> So that's what the ppa did? It made it "manual" and thus prevented apt from chaning it to the version it needed for digikam?
[12:39] <tomreyn> that way, these packages can be automatically removed again when all the other packages depending on them will be uninstalled.
[12:40] <tomreyn> no, that's unrelated to the ppa
[12:40] <tomreyn> this change (to manually installed) is a direct result of you listing these packages on the "apt install" line
[12:40] <tomreyn> i.e. see the first line of this post where you noted the command you ran
[12:41] <noob8650> tomreyn: Oh, yeah!
[12:41] <tomreyn> you did this correctly, i suggested running this command then, it's just that it can have this side effect you need to take note of and clean up later
[12:42] <noob8650> Yeah, it was already set to automatic it seems.
[12:42] <tomreyn> it's not really a harmful change, it could just result in more packages remaining installed than you actually need
[12:43] <tomreyn> hmm, not sure why those would have been set to "automatically instaleld" when this output claims differenlty, but maybe that was the result of other changes you made in the meantime
[12:45] <noob8650> tomreyn: I ran the command and they are set to "automatic" now, that should fix the issue with that, right?
[12:45] <noob8650> Now I just need to go through the sav.0 packages
[12:49] <tomreyn> noob8650: "correct" to both ;)
[12:49] <noob8650> tomreyn: Thanks, I'm almost done taking notes, hopefully I'll remember.
[12:50] <tomreyn> thanks to the notes, if they're good, you won't need to remember
[12:51] <tomreyn> this is the result of a PPA search for "blender": https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas?name_filter=blender
[12:52] <tomreyn> unfortunately there is no way to filter search results by target release (ubuntu version packages are provided for) or poularity
[12:53] <tomreyn> https://launchpad.net/~savoury1/+archive/ubuntu/blender is what you were using. Amongst other, it says "You can update your system with unsupported packages from this untrusted PPA by..." (as it says for every PPA)
[12:54] <noob8650> tomreyn: Yeah, the disclaimers aren't there for no reason I guess! :)
[12:54] <tomreyn> just keep in mind that, effectively, every apt repository you add to your system is granted root access to your system.
[12:55] <noob8650> Yeah, I think I'm going to be more careful now
[12:55] <tomreyn> this said, this repository doesn't look like it's badly maintained, and i don't expect it to normally be.
[12:56] <user|94> I just installed kubuntu as my first linux distro and I cant seem to connect to wifi how do i add this connection?
[12:56] <tomreyn> noob8650: other than, notably: "*** This PPA is effectively on hold (no further updates except for Xenial) due lack of support as explained here: https://launchpad.net/~savoury1 ***"
[12:57] <tomreyn> user|94: if you have supported wireless hardware, it should be as easy as clicking on the connection icon on the top right corner and selecting the otion to coinnect you to a wireless access point from the drop-down menu
[12:58] <tomreyn> that's from memory, though, i don't actually have a current kubuntu here
[12:59] <noob8650> tomreyn: I tried the next sav.0 offending package, but for some reason there's no "ubuntu version" of it and removing will probably break everything, right? Here are the commands and output: https://termbin.com/95hw
[12:59] <tomreyn> user|94: note also this: https://userbase.kde.org/Kubuntu/Basic/en#Wireless
[13:01] <tomreyn> noob8650: hmm, that's weird. looking
[13:02] <tomreyn> noob8650: can you do a   sudo apt --purge autoremove    first and see what would be removed there already?
[13:02] <tomreyn> without any packages
[13:02] <tomreyn> ...on the command line
[13:05] <tomreyn> i expect that the ubuntu gimp packages would not depend on a library that is not available in ubuntu for your release.
[13:07] <tomreyn> so it's not clear why apt would purge that original ubuntu gimp package there ("Purg gimp [2.10.18-1]") as a result of you removing a non ubuntu (for your version) package, libdecor-0-0
[13:08] <tomreyn> (could be that another PPA is getting in the way there)
[13:08] <tomreyn> user|94: any luck?
[13:09] <noob8650> tomreyn: there is nothing to autoremove without specifying packages
[13:10] <user|94> not yet no. I cant see any connections in the tray you mentioned and there arent any new drivers available
[13:10] <tomreyn> noob8650: okay, so the removal of, for example, gimp, is indeed a result of removing libdecor-0-0. personally, i would now, to save time, note down the packages that will be purged, but that i want to keep, and just reinstall them later on.
[13:11] <noob8650> tomreyn: okay...
[13:12] <tomreyn> user|94: hmm, okay, if you want to wait 10 minutes, i could install kubuntu here and see what it looks like and maybe guide you through it.
[13:12] <user|94> i have time yes> thanks :D
[13:14] <alkisg> user|94: what's the output of this command? (lsusb; lspci) | nc termbin.com 9999
[13:14] <alkisg> So that we see which wifi adapter you have
[13:14] <tomreyn> wont work without networking, though
[13:15] <alkisg> He doesn't have just wifi, or he doesn't have lan as well?
[13:15] <tomreyn> unknown to me
[13:16] <alkisg> user|94: do you have a LAN (wired) connection? Can you access the internet?
[13:16] <user|94> euhm i am connected to LAN on my desktop atm
[13:16] <alkisg> Can you connect the other PC to LAN, for easier feedback?
[13:16] <user|94> but cant check it on my laptop (linux device) because it doesnt have a port for it
[13:17] <alkisg> OK. Do you have a USB stick to transfer a file?
[13:17] <user|94> andi  dont have an adapter
[13:17] <user|94> i do yes
[13:17] <alkisg> Run this then, on the laptop: (dmesg; lsusb; lspci) > /tmp/output.txt
[13:17] <alkisg> Then transfer /tmp/output.txt to the desktop, and put it to a pastebin
[13:20] <noob8650> tomreyn: Sorry for still picking your brain, but how do I properly downgrade here: https://termbin.com/hlo8   (what is the version I need to choose to install)?
[13:20] <tomreyn> noob8650: no worries. it is 1:12.0.0-3ubuntu1~20.04.4
[13:21] <noob8650> tomreyn: But a package of the name "libllvm121:12.0.0-3ubuntu1~20.04.4" can't be found?
[13:22] <alkisg> sudo apt install libllvm12=1:12.0.0-3ubuntu1~20.04.4
[13:22] <noob8650> Ohhhh, sorry alkisg
[13:24] <tomreyn> just a little typo :)
[13:25] <user|94> the command doesnt seem to do anything alkisg
[13:25] <tomreyn> alkisg: maybe user|94's issue is just about finding the right GUI to configure a wireless LAN - could you guide there (i don't have kubuntu here atm), just to be sure it's not just that?
[13:25] <alkisg> user|94: it generated a file in the /tmp folder
[13:25] <alkisg> And now you're supposed to move it to a usb stick
[13:26] <alkisg> user|94: here's another command for you: ip a
[13:26] <alkisg> When you run that, do you see a wlan0 or wxlsbig-string device?
[13:26] <alkisg> If not, then you don't have drivers for your wlan
[13:26] <alkisg> If yes, tomreyn is right and it's just about using the GUI to connect
[13:27] <user|94> i probably dont have the drivers then, cause i dont see those things
[13:27] <alkisg> OK, try to run the previous command I said, that generates the file
[13:28] <alkisg> It will not output anything. It will generate a file. Then run: xdg-open /tmp
[13:28] <alkisg> This will open /tmp in the file manager; locate the "output.txt" file and copy it to the stick
[13:29] <alkisg> Here's a better one:      (dmesg; ip a; lsusb; lspci) > /tmp/output.txt; xdg-open /tmp
[13:31] <user|94> https://pastebin.com/efZRa0zp
[13:31] <user|94> is this ok?
[13:32] <alkisg> user|94: ah unfortunately it didn't fit all of it. Can you try e.g. in paste.debian.net?
[13:33] <user|94> http://paste.debian.net/1231504/
[13:34] <alkisg> user|94: people there https://askubuntu.com/questions/1357135/driver-for-mediatek-wifi-card-7961 say that they needed a newer kernel. What's your kernel? uname -r
[13:35] <user|94> 5.11.0-27-generic
[13:35] <pasko> Hi guys - I have an issue on Kubuntu where lock screen doesn't respond to keyboard input until mouse is moved. Does anyone know why this might be?
[13:36] <alkisg> user|94: which ubuntu version is that? grep VERSION /etc/os-release
[13:36] <fusionfuture[m]> pasko:  what's your kde version?
[13:37] <alkisg> user|94: e.g. just "20.04" will do...
[13:37] <user|94> its 20.04.3
[13:37] <alkisg> user|94: I would guess it's 20.04.2, not 20.04.3, as .3 has the 5.13 kernel which will work for you
[13:38] <alkisg> user|94: you need to update your system. One easy way I can think of, since you don't have LAN etc, is to create a 20.04.3 live cd (with 5.13 kernel), then boot with it, then "chroot" to your disk, and run apt full-upgrade
[13:38] <tomreyn> or tethering, usually much easier on the user
[13:39] <alkisg> Bluetooth? Yeah nice idea
[13:39] <alkisg> Or usb tethering, right
[13:39] <alkisg> With the android phone
[13:39] <user|94> i like the sound of "much easier on the user" '=D
[13:39] <tomreyn> do you have a smartphone or tab?
[13:39] <Maik> alkisg:  .3 comes with the 5.11 kernel by default on the live iso
[13:39] <user|94> yes
[13:40] <tomreyn> user|94: which of the two?
[13:40] <alkisg> Maik: ouch, they upgraded it after the iso? Weird
[13:40] <user|94> phone
[13:40] <tomreyn> user|94: android or iphone?
[13:40] <user|94> with tab you mean tablet or?
[13:40] <user|94> android
[13:40] <tomreyn> yes
[13:40] <user|94> ah i have both then
[13:40] <user|94> both running android
[13:40] <tomreyn> is the android phone configured to connect to your wireless lan?
[13:41] <Maik> alkisg: after updating .3 they should have the 5.13 kernel
[13:41] <user|94> yes
[13:41] <Maik> HWE is enabled on .3
[13:41] <tomreyn> user|94: do you know how to share the wireless lan on android?
[13:41] <tomreyn> how to "do tethering"
[13:42] <alkisg> https://support.google.com/android/answer/9059108
[13:43] <tomreyn> user|94: if you don't know, just ignore this question for now. get your android phone and your charging cable for it, see if you can remove the charger plug off it and connect the remainder to the computer whic is offline.
[13:44] <tomreyn> user|94: ah, alkisg got a good how-to there. ideally, you'll do the lat option listed there in blue script, "tether by usb cable"
[13:44] <user|94> its connected via cable
[13:45] <tomreyn> so just follow those four steps from the how-to on "Tether by USB cable"
[13:47] <tomreyn> once that's done, the kubuntu network panel https://userbase.kde.org/images.userbase/d/d1/Network_Panel.png should list a new connection which you just need to click on if it's not already active
[13:47] <tomreyn> you should then be able to install pending updates
[13:47] <user|94> it says there should be an option to turn on "usb tethering" but i cant see it
[13:47] <user|94> nvm found it somewhere else xD
[13:48] <tomreyn> phew :)
[13:48] <user|94> ok yes im connected
[13:48] <tomreyn> so install all pending updates now
[13:48] <tomreyn> keep in mind that the uplink of your phone will be used
[13:49] <user|94> just do sudo apt-get update?
[13:49] <tomreyn> so if that is not actually on the wireless lan anymore, but switched to a mobile data connection, then that would be used for the downloads.
[13:49] <tomreyn> yes,    sudo apt update   and then   sudo apt full-upgrade
[13:50] <tomreyn> or you could use the GUI application for that if you prefer
[13:50] <user|94> i want to learn how to use the console so :)  ill use the console
[13:50] <tomreyn> awesome, much easier for me
[13:51] <user|94> its my first time actually using linux so im learning a lot already :D
[13:51] <tomreyn> andoird is kind of linux, too, or a fork of it, some would say
[13:51] <tomreyn> *android
[13:52] <user|94> just the whole downloading of programs and console part of the os is new to me
[13:52] <user|94> it will prob take quite a while to learn it
[13:53] <user|94> but i know there are advantages to using it vs windows in the line of work im in so
[13:54] <tomreyn> if this line of work has anything to do with managing linux systems or developing on them, that's certainly so.
[13:54] <user|94> work might be a big word but im studying IT atm so xD
[13:54] <tomreyn> that it's an advantage, i mean, not that it will neccessarily take long to learn
[13:55] <user|94> i know that forcing myself to use linux will teach me a lot of useful stuff
[13:55] <tomreyn> definitely
[13:55] <user|94> stuff you dont really need to know when you just use the windows GUI for everything
[13:56] <user|94> ok the update is dont i think
[13:56] <user|94> done*
[13:56] <tomreyn> or which are very annoying or complicated or even impossible to get to there, yes
[13:57] <tomreyn> apt list --installed linux* | nc termbin.com 9999
[13:57] <tomreyn> what does this return, other than a warninig?
[13:57] <user|94> if i rerun the version command i see that my version is now 20.04.4 instead of .3
[13:57] <tomreyn> that's good.
[13:58] <user|94> https://termbin.com/sk2a
[13:58] <tomreyn> just give it a reboot then, to move to the newer kernel image
[13:59] <user|94> restart my system?
[13:59] <tomreyn> the one you installed the updates on, yes
[13:59] <user|94> ok
[13:59] <BluesKaj> Hi folks
[14:00] <tomreyn> for kernel updates, that is actually needed, at least in most cases
[14:00] <user|94> ah ok
[14:00] <user|94> it works!
[14:00] <tomreyn> what is "it"?
 7HER
[14:00] <alkisg> 👍
[14:00] <user|94> the connections are visible
[14:00] <user|94> and im connected to my home network
[14:01] <tomreyn> good, remove the cable to the android phone then
 Ehh
[14:01] <user|94> big thanks alkisg and timreyn :D
[14:01] <tomreyn> you're welcome
[14:01] <tomreyn> hi Tsug1kuni
[14:01] <user|94> tomreyn*
[14:03] <user|94> well, thanks again :)  lovely community this is cya
[14:03] <noob8650> tomreyn: I found another interesting issue: https://termbin.com/7645  Here it has two version of the package coming from some official ubuntu repo. Which one is the "right one"?
[14:06] <tomreyn> noob8650: the version listed on the bottom is from the "focal/main" section of this repository, the version listedin the middle is available from the "focal-updates/main" section of this repository as well as the "focal-updates/main" section of the security.ubuntu.com repository. which one might be newer/better?
[14:07] <tomreyn> you can also look at the version numbers (assuming you know how to tell when a version numer is considered higher/lower by apt/dpkg). version 0.6.1-2ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS> would count as higher than version 0.6.1-2
[14:07] <tomreyn> now i should explain why that is, and here's where i'm failing, it's just by experience.
[14:09] <noob8650> tomreyn: Okay, I took the "updates" one, I guess my gut feeling was right ;)
[14:09] <noob8650> Or was it? Sorry, I don't trust my judgement.
[14:10] <tomreyn> noob8650: yes, you're right
[14:10] <noob8650> Thanks :D
[14:11] <tomreyn> if you purged the package, then installed it again, the  0.6.1-2ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS> version is what would be installed
[14:12] <tomreyn> "focal/main" contains the packages in their version state as they were released as part of an ubuntu release, or point release (i.e. 20.04, or 20.04.3)
[14:12] <noob8650> tomreyn: I removed/installed ubuntu version for all sav.0 packages. I think I'll reboot now and install the removed apps again (but check my ppa and consider if I need it first)
[14:13] <noob8650> tomreyn: That makes sense. So after that they just give out updates for all the packages and that state is in the updates repos, yeah?
[14:13] <tomreyn> focal-updates contains bug and security fixes, focal-security contains only security fixes (sometimes security fixes will only be availbale there, when they're new)
[14:13] <noob8650> Okay, so there's three then?
[14:14] <noob8650> the ppa one, the updates and the securiy source?
[14:14] <tomreyn> yes there are those three repository sections which stack on top of one another by default
[14:14] <tomreyn> ppa? no
[14:15] <noob8650> Okay, so in order of priority: security, then updates, then release?
[14:15] <tomreyn> yes, you could say so
[14:15] <noob8650> Thanks. I learned a lot with your help. I wish there was something I could do to return a favor.
[14:16] <tomreyn> the priority of what will be installed is really determined by the number behind the version number ("apt priority"), then by the highest version number
[14:16] <noob8650> Okay, that's good to know.
[14:16] <tomreyn> i.e. the "100" and "500" on https://termbin.com/7645  are apt priorities
[14:16] <tomreyn> those can be modified using "apt pinning", if you ever heard of that
[14:17] <tomreyn> but it's not usually needed
[14:17] <tomreyn> or very rarely
[14:17] <noob8650> I heard "pinning" some time ago, but didn't know the exact context. Thanks. If I ever stumble over it again this'll probably help me.
[14:18] <tomreyn> what you can do to return the favor is to keep good notes, keep using them in the future, and when you feel ready for it, pass what you learnt on to others, such as on irc
[14:18] <tomreyn> but that's not mandatory ;)
[14:19] <noob8650> Okay, I will. :) https://i.imgur.com/GZi7sfM.png    I'll maybe autostart the irc in the future.
[14:19] <noob8650> Then I can peek in every now and then,
[14:21] <tomreyn> noob8650: nice notes. :)
[14:22] <noob8650> Ran my backup, now rebooting
[14:58] <noob8650> tomreyn: Everything seems to work!
[15:01] <tomreyn> noob8650: that must be an error!
[15:01] <tomreyn> noob8650: if you want a more busy channel for those under-the-hood (GUI) things that are common to all ubuntu flavours (kubuntu is one) then join #ubuntu, too
[15:17] <noob8650> tomreyn: Okay, I'll add that server to my autojoin list
[15:18] <noob8650> *channel
[22:22] <dirtworker> Hello world
[22:28] <oerheks> world, wake up, customer waiting
[22:44] <GOldkingG4> Hello,does anybody knows how to boost up kde?
[22:48] <oerheks> more memory, better videocard, change hdd to ssd
[22:50] <GOldkingG4> Can I do something liek stop effects,or something like setting graphics to best performance like on windows?
[22:51] <oerheks> !info kubuntu-low-fat-settings
[22:51] <oerheks> oh
[22:51] <oerheks> that used to be a package to minimise effects
[22:52] <oerheks> https://www.addictivetips.com/ubuntu-linux-tips/speed-up-the-kde-plasma-5-desktop/
[22:52] <oerheks> https://en.naneedigital.com/article/how_to_optimize_kde_desktop_effects almost the same
[22:55] <Maik> GOldkingG4: what are your system specs?
[22:59] <Maik> oerheks: last release was in 2011
[22:59] <GOldkingG4> Operating System: Kubuntu 21.10
[22:59] <GOldkingG4> KDE Plasma Version: 5.22.5
[22:59] <GOldkingG4> KDE Frameworks Version: 5.86.0
[22:59] <GOldkingG4> Qt Version: 5.15.2
[22:59] <GOldkingG4> Kernel Version: 5.13.0-28-generic (64-bit)
[22:59] <GOldkingG4> Graphics Platform: X11
[22:59] <Maik> !paste | GOldkingG4
[23:00] <Maik> and with system specs i mean CPU, how much RAM
[23:03] <GoldkingG4> I have 7.6gb ram
[23:04] <GoldkingG4> Processors: 4 × Intel® Core™ i5-7200U CPU @ 2.50GHz
[23:04] <GoldkingG4> Memory: 7.6 GiB of RAM
[23:04] <GoldkingG4> Graphics Processor: Mesa Intel® HD Graphics 620
[23:04] <Maik> should be no problem then
[23:04] <Maik> KDE Plasma is fast enough
[23:04] <Maik> you can play around with the Animation speed
[23:05] <GoldkingG4> any tipson how to speed up even more? Besides using bleachbit and clenase applications?
[23:05] <GoldkingG4> tips on*
[23:06] <Maik> bleachbit and cleaners aren't recommended to use
[23:06] <Maik> and they don't speed up your system
[23:07] <GoldkingG4> why? then what should I use andor use?
[23:07] <Maik> GoldkingG4: set the animation speed to instant if you want it to fly and use a ssd
[23:08] <Maik> GoldkingG4: such apps can do more harm that anything else, so bleachbit and cleaners aren't needed at all
[23:08] <oerheks> those 2 urls give some options
[23:09] <oerheks> but yes, intel hd620 is limited, still you can run youtube on it
[23:09] <Maik> GoldkingG4: linux isn't windows....
[23:09] <Maik> with his specs Kubuntu should run just fine
[23:10] <GoldkingG4> I know
[23:10] <Maik> heck i can even run it on a old T410 with 4GB of RAM and a i5 processor
[23:10] <GoldkingG4> I just wanted to see if there were similar things
[23:10] <oerheks> 7.6 gb tells me you have selected the max shared memory for video, that is oke
[23:11] <oerheks> use those tips, or be happy with it
[23:11] <GoldkingG4> alright thanks guys
[23:11] <Maik> GoldkingG4: get it out of your head that you need bleachbit or cleaner apps
[23:11] <Maik> ;)
[23:16] <GoldkingG4> by the way,can I change the taskbar color without installing any themes?
[23:17] <oerheks> maybe, by editting the current theme?
[23:18] <GoldkingG4> how do I do that? Im such a noob
[23:19] <oerheks> never done such, maybe this page is any help https://docs.kde.org/trunk5/en/kate/katepart/color-themes.html
[23:21] <oerheks> or https://www.reddit.com/r/kde/comments/h91mi3/how_to_change_taskbar_color_without_changing_any/
[23:22] <oerheks> it needs to edit a css file, good luck!


 I need to run a service only after mount is done, ie all volumes defined in fstab were mounted
[17:55] <gansbrest> how would I do it with upstart
[18:02] <xnox> skrode_: after starting it for the first time. Does the pid of the master process match the one in `status nginx` ?
[18:02] <SpamapS> gansbrest: start on filesystem
[18:02] <SpamapS> gansbrest: but really, unless it is very special, just do 'start on runlevel [2345]'
[18:03] <SpamapS> gansbrest: and stop on runlevel [016]
[18:03] <gansbrest> I do start on runlevel now, but noticed that my startup happens before volume was mounted
[18:03] <SpamapS> gansbrest: runlevel what?
[18:03] <gansbrest> is that even possible that 0123 would execute before mount..?
[18:04] <SpamapS> gansbrest: runlevel 2 is 'start on filesystem and static-networking-up' .. so ..
[18:04] <gansbrest> my runlevel is 3
[18:04] <SpamapS> gansbrest: why 3?
[18:04] <SpamapS> oh, RH I bet
[18:04] <gansbrest> yes, centos
[18:04] <SpamapS> gansbrest: check /etc/init/rc-sysinit.conf
[18:04] <SpamapS> gansbrest: what is the 'start on' there ?
[18:05] <gansbrest> hm, I don't have this file
[18:05] <SpamapS> oh wow
[18:05]  * SpamapS is checking his own centos test box
[18:05] <skrode_> xnox: yes it does
[18:05] <SpamapS> the way its done is..
[18:05] <SpamapS> really weird
[18:06] <gansbrest> I think upstart starts systemV right?
[18:06] <gansbrest> for comparability
[18:06] <SpamapS> gansbrest: yeah but.. the way its being done is.. really broken IMO
[18:07] <SpamapS> no wonder lennart got frustrated and wrote systemd
[18:07] <gansbrest> do you know which init script runs mounts?
[18:07] <SpamapS> I have no idea
[18:08] <gansbrest> I'm wondering if it's systemV script or upstart one )
[18:09] <gansbrest> if it would be systemV - then I could do "start on stopped rc"
[18:09] <SpamapS> gansbrest: rc.sysinit does a lot of mount stuff
[18:09] <SpamapS> gansbrest: yes start on stopped rc RUNLEVEL=3 would do it
[18:10] <gansbrest> but theoretically runlevel 3 should come up with mounts..?
[18:10] <skrode_> xnox: the pid of the master process matches always the one in `status nginx`, but the /var/run/nginx.pid doesn't update after killing the master process with kill command
[18:22] <SpamapS> gansbrest: yes it should
[18:23] <gansbrest> ah, I think my problem could be related to nework mount
[18:23] <gansbrest> forgot to mention it
[18:23] <gansbrest> it's not normal mount
[18:23] <gansbrest> ntf sort of thing
[18:31] <SpamapS> gansbrest: those are done by sysv
[18:35] <gansbrest> yes, on stopped rc worked, thanks SpamapS
[23:34] <FRITZ|FRITZ> hello
[23:35] <FRITZ|FRITZ> so i was trying to create an upstart job on Ubuntu that would call "openvpn /home/roland/AirVPN_United\ States_UDP-443.ovpn" as root
[23:36] <FRITZ|FRITZ> i created a job as launchvpn.conf which is in the /etc/init/ folder. it is not executable as per the instructions
[23:37] <FRITZ|FRITZ> # launchvpn - service job file
[23:37] <FRITZ|FRITZ> description "Launch VPN"
[23:37] <FRITZ|FRITZ> author "FRITZ|FRITZ"
[23:37] <FRITZ|FRITZ> # Start the media server after network and filesystem
[23:37] <FRITZ|FRITZ> # Otherwise this lead to a unresponsive server
[23:37] <FRITZ|FRITZ> start on filesystem and net-device-up IFACE!=lo
[23:38] <FRITZ|FRITZ> echo "test"
[23:38] <FRITZ|FRITZ> # When to stop the service
[23:38] <FRITZ|FRITZ> stop on runlevel [016]
[23:38] <FRITZ|FRITZ> # Automatically restart process if crashed
[23:38] <FRITZ|FRITZ> respawn
[23:38] <FRITZ|FRITZ> # Sets nice and ionice level for job
[23:38] <FRITZ|FRITZ> nice -5
[23:38] <FRITZ|FRITZ> # What to execute
[23:38] <FRITZ|FRITZ> script
[23:38] <FRITZ|FRITZ>         openvpn /home/roland/AirVPN_United\ States_UDP-443.ovpn
[23:38] <FRITZ|FRITZ> end script
[23:38] <SpamapS> FRITZ|FRITZ: in the future, please paste these things into a pastebin, such as paste.ubuntu.com
[23:39] <SpamapS> FRITZ|FRITZ: "start on filesystem and net-device-up IFACE!=lo" is not what you want. You want 'start on runlevel [2345]'
[23:40] <SpamapS> FRITZ|FRITZ: echo "test" is also wrong
[23:40] <SpamapS> FRITZ|FRITZ: you don't need the 'script/end script', just do 'exec .....'
[23:41] <FRITZ|FRITZ> let me give it a shot thanks
[23:41] <SpamapS> FRITZ|FRITZ: finally you probably want to use the keyword 'task' , as this is a one time thing, not a constantly running job
[23:41] <FRITZ|FRITZ> well the vpn connection I do want to have constantly…
[23:43] <SpamapS> FRITZ|FRITZ: ah ok, then not task :)
[23:44] <SpamapS> FRITZ|FRITZ: note that openvpn already has sysvinit scripts that will do this for you
[23:45] <SpamapS> FRITZ|FRITZ: you just have to put the config file in /etc/openvpn/whatever.conf
[23:47] <FRITZ|FRITZ> hmm it still does not seem to be executing properly… if i were to run sudo openvpn /home/roland/AirVPN_United\ States_UDP-443.ovpn once logged into my user account it would work… (but remain in the foreground)
[23:48] <FRITZ|FRITZ> how come the upstart job doesn't seem to work?
[23:51] <SpamapS> FRITZ|FRITZ: not sure, but check /var/log/upstart/name-of-your-job.log
[23:53] <FRITZ|FRITZ> ahh usefull
[23:54] <SpamapS> FRITZ|FRITZ: but, like I said, probably just toss that file in /etc/openvpn/airvpn.conf and it will work
[23:55] <FRITZ|FRITZ> that's what i was about to try… currently the files are sitting in my home directory. the log showed it unable to find the keys


[16:05] <jrwren> https://twitter.com/gnomealex/status/1311251587218710529?s=20
[16:10] <greg-g> I'm getting flashbacks to, shit, what was it called?
[16:10] <greg-g> where your 4 desktops were sides to a cube you could rotate
[16:11] <greg-g> and you could add flames, because of course you could add flames
[16:15] <jrwren> yup.
[16:15] <jrwren> and wobbly windows window managers.
[16:15] <jrwren> it is weird cuz in MS windows every control was always already a window, and so if one can wobble, they all can wobble.
[16:15] <jrwren> definitely feels 20yrs ago.
[16:16] <greg-g> WHAT WAS IT CALLED?!
[16:18] <jrwren> enlightenment? :p
[16:18] <jrwren> xrender?
[16:18] <greg-g> no no
[16:19] <jrwren> composite?
[16:19] <greg-g> the thing from circa 2008 Ubuntu land
[16:19] <greg-g> composite maybe
[16:19] <jrwren> compiz?
[16:19] <greg-g> compiz!
[16:19] <greg-g> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CompositeManager
[16:19] <greg-g> calls out "the cube" in the first line
[16:20] <jrwren> one of linux desktops weakest things IMO is that it hasn't had a consistent WM over the years.
[16:20] <jrwren> although, I guess kwin has been the same for 20-25yrs... so maybe my gripe is with the gnome distros :)
[16:26] <_stink_> beryl?


[13:54] <BrianHechinger[m> So what's the secret to getting Carla to save the position of everything on the Canvas correctly? Even though I've saved everything it always starts up with everything bunched in the middle. It's being started with RaySession.
[14:03] <BrianHechinger[m> Also, just read backlog, damn I missed the drama. :-D
[15:48] <oerheks> devilspie can do that
[15:52] <Eickmeyer> BrianHechinger[m: It's a known bug in Carla. Hopefully fixed in 2.3.0, which is in hirsute as a release candidate.
[15:52] <Eickmeyer> *suddenly a wild madhens appears*
[15:53] <madhens> *it uses friendly greeting!*
[15:53] <BrianHechinger[m> Oh, ok. Then life will just be sucky for now. Especially that Ardour 6 doesn't make all inputs/outputs in the same "block"
[15:54] <Eickmeyer> BrianHechinger[m: I've had luck with the graph view in qjackctl recently. It's not as fast as Carla, but it does the job and remembers positions. Just remember to set the options in qjackctl not to quit jack when quitting qjackctl...
[15:54] <Eickmeyer> or to start Jack with qjackctl if you're using studio-controls for that.
[15:55] <Eickmeyer> I've actually been meaning to bug the dev of qjackctl to see if there's a way to make it launch the graph view on its own.
[15:56] <BrianHechinger[m> Eh, I'll survive. I really do like carla. Needing to move everything around is a bit of a pain, but I don't reboot often so meh. :-D
[18:37] <OvenWerk1> Eickmeyer: qjackctl can be controled via dbus, so maybe a python script could do that... or at least show the connections window (or whatever) from a qjackctl that opens direct to systray.
[18:38]  * OvenWerk1 wishes catia would get finished...
[18:41] <OvenWerk1> BrianHechinger[m: also note that the Carla in ubuntu is different from the one from git. I suspect that it is those lines that stop Carla from properly remembering placement.
[18:41] <Mythx1337[m]> hi
[18:41] <OvenWerk1> So Carla 2.3 may still have trouble remembring position
[18:45] <OvenWerk1> BrianHechinger[m: ubuntu's Carla (and Catia should that make it out soon) will remain different until Jack is "fixed" because right now both of these programs make calls to jack that under some circumstances cause jack to lock up.
[18:49] <OvenWerk1> BrianHechinger[m: in our case, the problem shows up at the time a USB audio device is unplugged. Jack seems to continue to run, but any client that tries to make calls to jack freezes, including carla but also things like jack_lsp, qjackctl. Stopping and restart, jack and all these applications does not fix it either, a reboot is required.
[18:51] <BrianHechinger[m> eeeew, that's a nasty bug
[18:59] <OvenWerk1> BrianHechinger[m: by changing two lines in Carla the problem goes away. But those two lines have to do with exchanging meta data with jack and I would guess that Carla uses that data to decide where to put things... ie know what client is which.
[19:00] <OvenWerk1> BrianHechinger[m: instead it gets null data for all of them and maybe tries to put them all in the same place.
[19:02] <BrianHechinger[m> Hopefully that can be fixed. That's really annoying.