 why is my spammy senses tingling
 Ikr
 xD
 @Fuseteam [why is my spammy senses tingling], These are the ones that take about a whole day to send their spam. some others take literally 1 millisecond
 It might not be a spammer, but idk
 It has its bio filled
 yeah it may be a false positive
 proper-ish username too
 lol
[02:17] <ubptgbot> cryptoccupied was added by: cryptoccupied
 heyall
 hiya
 would you recommend ubuntu touch before say ano.phone?
 and whats the difference?
 @cryptoccupied [would you recommend ubuntu touch before say ano.phone?], wait what's that?
 oh anophone
 @cryptoccupied [and whats the difference?], ok so ubuntu touch is not an anonymous phone OS, it's an open source private phone OS
 the difference is functions. ubuntu touch acts more like another OS rather than a single phone experience.
 [Edit] the difference is functions. ubuntu touch acts more like another OS rather than a single phone.
 means camera, IMEI, gps, apps, call history and features as such still exist.
 @mintphin [means camera, IMEI, gps, apps, call history and features as such still exist.], so for maximum security and privacy against lets say forensics, ano-phone is the one that could prove usefull?
 @SomaSchicksal [Clicking install and reboot does nothing], that does happen from time to time when you let an update stay for long. Not sure why it happens but it is indeed a bug. Weirdly sometimes pressing the button longer than normal makes it actually react. Otherwise, try to go to about and check for updates.
 it seems that system update push notification isn't working again. I did not get one (I was waiting 😄) but when I went to the updates page, I got the update.
[04:06] <ubptgbot> Rana96GRG was added by: Rana96GRG
 @cryptoccupied [so for maximum security and privacy against lets say forensics, ano-phone is the …], If you are at the point where you are considering an option like this, it might be better not to carry any GSM/LTE device at all.
 I have absolutely no experience with these "Secure Phone" operating systems, but anything that proposes itself as resistant to tracking while still using an LTE network is really not so.
 Hey Dalton, can I ask you a question in a direct message real quick? I don't want to be off topic here so.
 sure
 Thanks
[05:13] <ubptgbot> +49<PHONE_NUMBER>3 was added by: +49<PHONE_NUMBER>3
 uhh
 When I connect my M10 HD tablet to my TV with an HDMI cable, video plays great but no audio. Audio is just from tablet speakers. Is it possible to enable audio over HDMI? … (I'm running UT Release Candidate)
 no, audio routing has never work on external displayes in either wired or wireless … someone has to implement it, not sure how complicated it will be 😅
 Works on my Blackberry Playbook 😱
 the audio?
 Yes
 Same cable
 yes, it does work just not implemented in UT yet
 Thanks for your reply
 Speaking of which, I have a TV that is supporting miracast, would UBports be able to use it as external display?
 So far things seem to be not working but it could be on me xD
 only specific devices and receivers are known to be known to work
 microsoft wireless display is know to work, yeah microsoft LOL
 I think Meizue PRO 5 has working wireless display
 I persinally never have t working in any of my UR devices
 would be nice to see it working but honestly, I don't have good experience with miracast even on android
 i believe there a trick you can do to test it out
 but i'm not sure how to debug it properly :p
 It's cool
[06:52] <lynxis> can someone help me finding the ofono repo for the pinephone?
[06:53] <lynxis> (as used in the ubport)
 Isn't that just https://github.com/uborts/ofono9
 [Edit] Isn't that just https://github.com/uborts/ofono?
 [Edit] Isn't that just https://github.com/uborts/telepathy-ofono?
 [Edit] Isn't that just https://github.com/ubports/telepathy-ofono?
 [Edit] Isn't that just https://github.com/ubports/ofono?
 I think the pinephone has a separate ofono which is I believe a newer version
 probably in ubports repo in gitlab
[08:13] <ubptgbot> nirsarkar was added by: nirsarkar
[08:51] <ubptgbot> Jochen was added by: Jochen
[08:53] <ubptgbot> <KOPP KLAUDIA> (Photo, 493x797) https://irc.ubports.com/JSissouI.png
 @Javacookies [it seems that system update push notification isn't working again. I did not get …], I didn't get the notification either (Nexus 5)
 maybe it's broken again
 REALMAX® MHL Micro USB to HDMI Cable Adapter Samsung: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics … https://www.amazon.co.uk/REALMAX%C2%AE-Micro-Adapter-Samsung-Galaxy-USB-HDMI-Female/dp/B01BDW21QY
 Would this work for Nexus 5 convergence or do I need a more expensive brand?
 no
 it should be slimport
 MHL is more common though so watch out
 make sure it's really slimport becasue sometimes the seller don't know the difference or just don't care
 Oh okay thanks. So is slimport the brand? Sorry I'm new to this.
 no, it's the technology used
 MHL is the other technology
 Okay. I'll keep Christmas shopping 😂
 good luck
 some time ago, it was easy for me to buy one but recentl, I can't find one anymore in our online stores
 Just looking on Amazon and so far all seem to be mhl
 yeah, sadly that's more popular becasue Samsung used it
 only few used slimport
 I've found some on eBay. Not too expensive. I guess they're more rare as newer phones have moved towards usb c
 what phone model is the easiest stable and secure to use with ubuntu touch
 @cryptoccupied [what phone model is the easiest stable and secure to use with ubuntu touch], There are quite a few. Right now, Xperia X or compact would be good
[13:48] <ubptgbot> <X YZ> @cryptoccupied [what phone model is the easiest stable and secure to use with ubuntu touch], Vollaphone also looks promising and is getting a lot of dev attention now, it seems.
 Pro 1 X too. But expensive
[13:58] <ubptgbot> <X YZ> @Stereofont [Pro 1 X too. But expensive], Good to see that the number of available newer phones (with more recent kernels and firmwares that will still receive updates over the next years hopefully) is increasing.
 @X YZ [Vollaphone also looks promising and is getting a lot of dev attention now, it se …], VollaPhone actually seems to be one of the best supported phones right now. From what I hear, they must have made a lot of progress during the last weeks/months.
[14:22] <ubptgbot> <X YZ> @Danfro [VollaPhone actually seems to be one of the best supported phones right now. From …], Following the relevant Volla/UT-TG-groups: Yes that's what it looks like, lots of discussion and seeming progress there. 👍 … I am also intrigued by the option (coming hopefully soon) to multi-boot VollaOS, UT and SFOS (CE) on this device by using t
[14:22] <ubptgbot> he ABM app currently being developed. 🙏📱 … The device itself, being based on the Gigaset GS290, seems also solid.
 All true. One of my favourites if my current phone does break.
[14:25] <ubptgbot> <X YZ> @Danfro [All true. One of my favourites if my current phone does break.], Sell your old one(s) and get a Volla. 😉 … That's actually what I am thinking about, since the multi-boot-option would allow me to replace the UT-phone and the LOS-phone with just one device. I am really rarely using both simultaneously anyway, so rebooting would not b
[14:25] <ubptgbot> e much of an inconvenience. 📱
 @X YZ [Sell your old one(s) and get a Volla. 😉 … That's actually what I am thinking abou …], My Xperia X is not that bad. 😎
[14:26] <ubptgbot> <X YZ> @Danfro [My Xperia X is not that bad. 😎], Well, then you will get a good price for it ... 😉
 (Sticker, 512x512) https://irc.ubports.com/MVYQAhR0.webp
[14:27] <ubptgbot> <X YZ> 😇
[14:27] <ubptgbot> <X YZ> (Sticker, 512x512) https://irc.ubports.com/D69w6A7D.webp
[14:27] <ubptgbot> <X YZ> Off for now, see you guys later ... 👋😃📱
 Hi, just wondering if there's a way to run ubuntu touch on a virtual machine
 (Sticker, 512x512) https://irc.ubports.com/VSLX9QZ0.webp
 @PurpleMcc [Hi, just wondering if there's a way to run ubuntu touch on a virtual machine], check here: https://github.com/ubports/utqemu
[16:21] <ubptgbot> ALBANO mccoy was added by: ALBANO mccoy
[16:21] <ubptgbot> <ALBANO mccoy> (Photo, 674x886) https://irc.ubports.com/SUwriYwp.png
 Although i had limited success in getting the qemu running. If you intention is to run the app in desktop during  development  use could use "clickable desktop" command as well.This would launch a qmlscene.
 A quick questions cause I haven't been paying attention lately, chromium still doesn't work in libertine, right? … I'm asking this cause I have a few chromecast devices and it's the only way I can think of using it for now.
 if it works, it'll be really slow … libertine is still using xmir which has no hgardware accelaration and has been unmaintained for years
 we'll only really have usable experience libertine with xwayland
 What are your thoughts on publishing  article on sites like wwww.omgubuntu.com , https://itsfoss.com/ about Ubuntu touch OTA-15 release.It could help us spread the word.
 Those sites maintain their own editorial policies and control, only they choose which stories to write and run.
 oh.ok👍.Anyways will try to reach out to these folk & check with them if they could get the news covered.
 @boriseto [A quick questions cause I haven't been paying attention lately, chromium still d …], there is a way to run it, but I was unable to get it to accept any input (touch or typing) when I tried it
 Got it, thanks. … It isn't for using it all the time, I was hoping for using it for casting only at least. … Until then I'll have to have an android device around me.
 (Photo, 1280x720) https://irc.ubports.com/IhI5f1oV.png I'm ready for it ✌
 (Photo, 106x55) https://irc.ubports.com/WR0rTceX.png Ah, so it's you
 @UniversalSuperBox [<reply to media>], Yeah. I have just connected all my devices 😂
 @ScardracS [<reply to media>], Nice wallpaper!
 @Hendrik [Nice wallpaper!], This is the YouTube welcoming image 😉
 For the QA
 Yes yes, i see.. But that would make a beautiful wallpaper too
 You can find it here: https://youtu.be/RWmXy24X-H4
 @Hendrik [Yes yes, i see.. But that would make a beautiful wallpaper too], I think so too
 We're live! Join us for some retrospective fun on 2020... it is ending too quickly but also not quickly enough. … https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWmXy24X-H4
[19:03] <ubptgbot> Mohina_Ibrohimova was added by: Mohina_Ibrohimova
 but that's why we have qemu/kvm, virtualbox, proton, anbox, etc… on PCs too :P
 Alan Pope: "Nice"
 update your qt
 Check my bio
 Astro Communicator
 we just need to get rid of more stuff
 Ubports cookie day wen
 I need to make a yumi holding a cookie sticker
 very nice! thank you guys!
 (Photo, 1259x1258) https://irc.ubports.com/4MtwfkU6.png Logos were discussed earlier up the thread. I did these as possible logos for the Yunit project before it died. If you all can make use of any of it, I'm happy to modify it as needed.
 (Photo, 1280x561) https://irc.ubports.com/xB735LOM.png
 (Photo, 1280x1196) https://irc.ubports.com/vbYWzfjn.png
 The first one was meant to reference both desktop-mobile, and Unity 8
 @rocket2nfinity [<reply to media>], what is yunit project?
 I like the first one
 A desktop
 At least if the reddit is the same yunit
 Seems to be a fork of unity8
 I'm not sure
 @rocket2nfinity [<reply to media>], The third is also nice
 Was. The project died.
 Yeah
 @rocket2nfinity [Was. The project died.], Also set a username
 Personally I prefer people with no username rather than people with empty nickname
 telegram should fix this bug somehow
[21:36] <ubptgbot> <Oxy Kali> Wich are better telegram x or telegram
 @Oxy Kali [Wich are better telegram x or telegram], the latest telegram x is still from april?
 telegram x is outdated imo
 but now i'm using ut, so i don't use neither of them
 @Oxy Kali [Wich are better telegram x or telegram], Telegram FOSS
[21:54] <ubptgbot> <Oxy Kali> I work now with telegram x
 FOSS is best
[21:55] <ubptgbot> <Oxy Kali> Okay
 Whyred
 no idea why is it red
 just joking, there was an attempt to port it for whyred, but not maintained by us
 [Edit] just joking, there was an attempt to port it for Redmi Note 5 (whyred), but not maintained by us
 [Edit] just joking, there was an attempt to port it for Redmi Note 5 Pro (whyred), but not maintained by us
[23:16] <ubptgbot> <Steve Kueffer> Hi, I'm just putting my Volla phone in service (Ubuntu Touch), and I can't find the "bluetooth transfer file" app in the open store (I have it well with my Nexus 5). Is there a way to install this app to be able to send files via Bluetooth? … Many thanks beforehand! Cheers, Steve
 @amyosx [Also set a username], Don't I have a user name?
 @rocket2nfinity [Don't I have a user name?], username is @someone, you have only nickname
 @rocket2nfinity [Don't I have a user name?], [Edit] username is @somebody, you have only nickname
 settings » edit profile » username
 Is this better?
[23:43] <ubptgbot> indra_setiawan_10 was added by: indra_setiawan_10
 @Steve Kueffer [Hi, I'm just putting my Volla phone in service (Ubuntu Touch), and I can't find …], i think it's not built for arm64 yet


[12:45] <doko> infinity: ping
[02:33] <infinity> doko: ?
[02:33] <infinity> doko: (PS: It's  along weekend for me, I'm not really around until tomorrow)


[10:42] <skirando> Hello I my upgrade from Bion 18.04 to 20.04 failed. I am stuck after reboot it asks the password but there seems to be no keyboard. Any suggestion?
[10:43] <jatt> boot into safe mode
[10:43] <skirando> Yes I did boot into recovery mode
[10:44] <skirando> but what to do then?
[10:44] <diogenes_> skirando, sudo apt install -f
[10:45] <skirando> OK can you remind me How to find the recovery mode? is it F2 or F5
[10:51] <skirando> It seems I always end up into Grub. Is ther a command I should type in the grub?
[10:59] <jatt> without keyboard would be hard to boot into recovery mode
[10:59] <jatt> is this a USB keyboard or a laptop keyboard?
[10:59] <skirando> OK I succeeded entering recovery mode. apt  install -f says all packages are up to date.
[11:01] <skirando> apt update says fr.archive.ubuntu.com/dists/focal/inrelaease temporary resolution error
[11:03] <skirando> I have the keyboard on the balck screen but when it displays the small window with my login it seems I have no keyboard.
[11:28] <diogenes_> skirando, try: sudo apt reinstall xorg
[11:29] <diogenes_> sudo dpkg-reconfigure xorg
[11:35] <skirando> it says xorg is not installed
[11:36] <diogenes_> yayks
[11:36] <diogenes_> sudo apt install xorg
[11:40] <skirando> sudo apt install xorg says 2 packets are broken
[11:41] <diogenes_> sudo apt full-upgrade
[11:41] <skirando> gimp-plugin-registry which I do not care much about and libgirepository for python-gi which I do care about.
[11:42] <skirando> for the fist one it says 7.2014....ubuntu3 must be installed
[11:42] <diogenes_> sudo apt purge gimp
[11:43] <skirando> yap i think it did it!..
[11:43] <skirando> will I get my configuration ackas with a normal upgrade???
[11:44] <diogenes_> you did what?
[11:45] <skirando> I did do-release-upgrade and it was not able to reboot.
[11:46] <diogenes_> run: sudo apt purge gimp python-gi
[11:59] <skirando> well Thanks a lot I think it did it.
[15:09] <piscvau> Hello after updating my xubuntu version I have no camera. when I run cheese I get no device detected. And I have no file /dev/video. It is a MSI laptop so I did press function + F6 but it does not help
[15:09] <piscvau> aby help would be welcomed


[00:06] <Azodon> hello everyone, I am looking into this ubntuone , but I fail to see the point i guess
[00:07] <Azodon> multiple computer access same files?
[00:10] <r4ph431> it's useful if don't have a computer wake up 7/24, it's an online (possibly public) private space
[00:12] <r4ph431> folks,  my question stay open : is there anyway that u1 could be as accessible as, say, rsync.net ?
[01:25] <aquarius> __lucio__, ping
[04:23] <jelmer> hi
[12:41] <leohartx> hello every body
[12:42] <leohartx> can some one tell me how to change my ubuntu one account's password ?
[13:03] <leohartx> how do i change my ubuntu one account's password ?
[13:03] <adiroiban> rodrigo_: hi. Regarding #DEBUG_MESSAGES, why do you want to enable debuging at runtine if at build time you have configured using --disable-debug-messages ?
[13:04] <rodrigo_> adiroiban, for packages, so that we can get debug info from users installing packages
[13:04] <rodrigo_> adiroiban, not sure if we want to build the package with --enable-debug
[13:04] <adiroiban> then just use ./configure
[13:04] <adiroiban> by default
[13:04] <adiroiban> debuggin is enabled
[13:04] <aquarius> leohartx, hey; your Ubuntu One password is currently handled by launchpad.net. So, if you go to launchpad.net and log in, you'll be able to change your password there
[13:05] <adiroiban> so to remove #DEBUG_MESSAGES you will need to explicitly configure using --disable-debug
[13:05] <leohartx> i'm giving it a try, thank aquarius
[13:05] <aquarius> leohartx, click your name in the top-right corner after logging in, then "Change your password" on the right-hand-side.
[13:06] <rodrigo_> adiroiban, yes, that's why I think we might just use the environment variable?
[13:07] <leohartx> aquarius : i did it, thank you
[13:07] <adiroiban> what are the problems, drawbacks for the current implementation?
[13:07] <aquarius> leohartx, no problem.
[13:08] <leohartx> bye guys, gtg
[13:08] <adiroiban> you will just use ./configure
[13:08] <adiroiban> and debug messaes are enabled using the environmet variable
[13:09] <rodrigo_> adiroiban, so, have --enable-debug in the package?
[13:09] <rodrigo_> adiroiban, IU'm ok with that, not sure what the policy for that is for packages
[13:09] <adiroiban> rodrigo_: can you please rephrase „so, have --enable-debug in the package?”
[13:10] <rodrigo_> adiroiban, I mean, with the current patch, we have to --enable-debug-messages in the package, and when we want to get debug info, tell the user to set the environment variable
[13:10] <rodrigo_> if we build the package with --disable, no way to get debug messages at all, right?
[13:11] <adiroiban> yes
[13:11] <adiroiban> but by default ./configure
[13:11] <adiroiban> will enable debug messages
[13:11] <rodrigo_> oh, right
[13:11] <adiroiban> so a package using CDBS will have them enabled
[13:11] <adiroiban> at compile time
[13:12] <adiroiban> so you want debuggin to be always enabled and instead of declare -x COUCDB_ENABLE_DEBUG to have declare -x COUCHDB_DISABLE_DEBUG?
[13:13] <rodrigo_> I want an easy way to enable debugging, that's why IU ask you to add the environment variable
[13:14] <rodrigo_> but if DEBUG_MESSAGES is enabled by default in configure, we're set :)
[13:20]  * rodrigo_ -> lunch
[13:54] <homeasvs> aquarius, would just calling that one method from a python interpreter work to pair with u1 ?
[13:54] <homeasvs> aquarius, also, maybe it might make sense to separate ui from functionality bits for pairing applet, so I could more easily provide an equivalent
[13:54] <aquarius> homeasvs, I think so, but I'm not totally familiar with that side of the code
[13:56] <aquarius> homeasvs, ah, it is separated, mostly. That function *should* be all you need to call; the call to that function is in ubuntuone-applet so that it automatically sets up a desktopcouch-to-Ubuntu-One pairing for you, but it doesn't have to be in the applet
[13:56] <aquarius> it's just python
[13:56] <aquarius> cardinalfang built most of the pairing stuff
[13:56] <homeasvs> aquarius, yeah, but the code to check if it's already paired is a little involved there
[13:57] <homeasvs> also, didn't see consumer_key (an arg to the function) actually being used
[13:57] <aquarius> homeasvs, yes, yes it is. I agree with you :)
[13:57] <homeasvs> but I should look into it some more
[13:57] <homeasvs> no reply from the python-keyring guy yet, right ?
[13:57] <homeasvs> we should contact his gsoc mentor too :)
[13:57] <aquarius> we should provide an is_this_replication_service_already_paired function, and we don't.
[13:57] <aquarius> no reply to me, no. You haven't heard anything?
[13:57] <homeasvs> nope
[13:58] <aquarius> also, dobey brought up an interesting point, which is: if we go python-keyring for desktopcouch, so it neatly stores into the most appropriate keyring, whatever that is...what do the C people do?
[14:21] <aquarius> homeasvs, I've just mailed the desktopcouch list about this problem. Your comments are eagerly sought :)
[14:22] <homeasvs> aquarius, go with the gnome one ?
[14:22] <aquarius> not ideal on Windows :)
[14:23] <homeasvs> where do I subscribe to that list ?
[14:23] <aquarius> http://groups.google.com/group/desktop-couchdb/
[14:23] <homeasvs> aquarius, I'd just say 'What you C is what you get'
[14:23] <homeasvs> ie, 'should have used python'
[14:23] <aquarius> thought you were already on the list! sorry :)
[14:23] <aquarius> heh. "you gotta use python; suffer, loser" tends not to work that well as an argument on Android :)
[14:26] <homeasvs> sure, and if I had infinite power of influence I"d make you guys go write a Universal C-based Key Library
[14:26] <homeasvs> but I don't see that happening soon
[14:45] <aquarius> you see the problem
[14:53] <rodrigo_> adiroiban, ok, your 2 branches are now landed
[14:53] <rodrigo_> adiroiban, please set the branch (not the merge proposal) status to 'Merged', so that they don't show up in the list of branches for couchdb-glib
[14:55] <rodrigo_> hey homeasvs, congrats on the dc on n900!
[14:55] <rodrigo_> homeasvs, will test it later
[14:55] <homeasvs> rodrigo_, ok, let me know, still waiting for someone to confirm that stuff works
[14:56] <rodrigo_> ok
[14:56] <rodrigo_> homeasvs, btw, did you have problems updating to the latest maemo5 update on the app manager?
[14:56] <rodrigo_> homeasvs, it seems it forces you to reflash if you have installed packages by hand with apt-get
[14:57] <homeasvs> rodrigo_, zaheer told me to remove the qt packages, after that it worked without reflashing
[14:57] <adiroiban> rodrigo_: I think I need to delete the branch
[14:57] <rodrigo_> homeasvs, I had installed gcc and other -dev packages by hand, and I had to reflash, did you?
[14:57] <rodrigo_> homeasvs, ah
[14:57] <homeasvs> rodrigo_, I didn't install any dev packages
[14:57] <rodrigo_> adiroiban, no, no need to delete, just set it to merged
[14:57] <homeasvs> rodrigo_, if I build stuff on the phone I do it in a chroot - I don't want to mess up my phone :)
[14:57] <rodrigo_> homeasvs, ah, should have done that myself then :D
[14:57] <homeasvs> rodrigo_, well, now you can since you reinstalled it :)
[14:58] <rodrigo_> yeah
[14:58] <adiroiban> rodrigo_: thanks :)
[15:11] <Chipaca> standup?
[15:12] <teknico> oh, you mean MEETING BEGINS ;-)
[15:13] <rodrigo_> me
[15:13] <teknico> me
[15:16] <Chipaca> me
[15:16] <aquarius> me
[15:18] <Chipaca> that's probably all of us today
[15:19] <Chipaca> rodrigo_: go
[15:19] <rodrigo_> • DONE: Released libubuntuone 0.1.0. Couchdb-glib branch reviews and merging. Submitted fix for missing python-lxml dependency on the server.
[15:19] <rodrigo_> • TODO: Conflict resolver tool in pair tool. Look at becoming a MOTU (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers). Make sandy's snowy test suite work with our server (http://git.gnome.org/cgit/snowy/tree/api/tests.py). Discuss with jdo and aquarius about oauth token per app, not per machine? Move JS code to its own file and add jslint tests to check:
[15:19] <rodrigo_> • BLOCKED: no
[15:19] <rodrigo_> next: teknico
[15:19] <teknico> DONE: set up a dev environ in a virtual machine, to work around bzr problems (#506974); more work implementing the mobile sync REST API for client app (#504689); some face duty
[15:19] <teknico> TODO: more face duty; land a branch to switch funambol_cared to a new server branch; more work implementing the mobile sync REST API for client app (#504689); fix a user's problems accessing the contacts web IU (#506584)
[15:19] <teknico> BLOCK: none
[15:19] <teknico> next: Chipaca
[15:19] <Chipaca> DONE: basked in the sun. TODO: read a couple of weeks worth of email, catch up with everything and everyone. BLOCKED: no way am I going to finish today
[15:19] <Chipaca> aquarius:
[15:19] <aquarius> ⚀ DONE: redo music store URLs; adapt music store plugin prototype to use new URLs
[15:19] <aquarius> ⚁ TODO: fix django-openid-auth so that I can actually use the DONE work above; have music library page send message to downloader daemon and row to database; make tomboy first-sync experience nicer
[15:19] <aquarius> ⚂ BLOCKED:
[15:21] <Chipaca> MEETING ENDS, not with a bang
[15:22] <aquarius> sorry, I could make up something cool to be blocked by other than my own stupidity if it makes the meeting end more impressively.
[15:22] <aquarius> BLOCKED: laptop was eaten by a swarm of space wasps
[15:23] <rodrigo_> :)
[16:26] <tomm-i> Hi. I'd like to develop an application against ubuntu one. How do I get oauth consumer key and secret for the app?
[16:33] <aquarius> tomm-i, hi
[16:33] <aquarius> tomm-i, when you say "against Ubuntu One", do you mean to do with file synchronization, or to do with CouchDB and desktopcouch?
[16:35] <tomm-i> aquarius: to update notes. It would be another front end for it, somewhat similar to tomboy with some special requirements.
[16:35] <aquarius> tomm-i, ah. then you don't need to get the existing key. Instead, you request a new one, authorising your application to edit the user's notes
[16:36] <aquarius> it's standard 3-legged oauth
[16:37] <aquarius> tomm-i, alternatively, you can use the existing oauthdesktop D-Bus service to get the existing key
[16:38] <aquarius> tomm-i, make a d-bus call to com.ubuntuone.Authentication.login() and then wait for a NewCredentials signal
[16:38] <aquarius> I need to write this up somewhere, don't I?
[16:39] <tomm-i> aquarius: yeah, you do :) And I need to learn more about oauth. Unfortunately I don't have dbus available.
[16:41] <aquarius> tomm-i, ah, so your app isn't on a standard Ubuntu desktop? In that case, you need to do three-legged OAuth. The OAuth URLs used by Ubuntu One are in /etc/xdg/ubuntuone/oauth_urls on a standard Ubuntu desktop
[16:41] <aquarius> tomm-i, http://paste.ubuntu.com/358573/
[16:42]  * aquarius adds "how to get keys" to the plan for the Ubuntu One talk during Ubuntu Developer Week. Good reminder :)
[16:42] <tomm-i> aquarius: hmm, consumer secret is there? You said that I need to request a new one? From where? Oh... nice plan ;)
[16:43] <aquarius> the consumer key and secret are always the same: ubuntuone/hammertime
[16:43] <tomm-i> kudos for someone for nice password
[16:43] <aquarius> (in the original oauth design, consumer key and consumer secret were meant to be kept secret by the application that used them, so they'd be specific to your app. That doesn't work all that well when apps are open source :))
[16:43] <tomm-i> but I think I got the hang of it, now thanks :)
[16:44] <aquarius> tomm-i, I have to go now, but do please ping me (or others here) for helpif you get stuck!
[16:44] <tomm-i> Thanks! :)
[17:58] <ojii> hi everyone
[18:00] <ojii> Whenever I put a file into my ubuntu one folder it appends u1conflict to the filename (which i guess means there's a conflict). But I don't understand why there is a conflict, there's no files whatsoever in my ubuntu one on the web
[18:15] <rtgz> ojii, hi. Does the filename contain colon ":" character?
[18:16] <ojii> rtgz: nope
[18:16] <rtgz> ojii, is the file name secret or you can disclose it here?
[18:16] <ojii> erm i tried 'myfile.txt' (which is a text file containing 'hello world') and a picture called me_2.jpg
[18:16] <ojii> neither worked
[18:27] <ojii> rtgz: see http://files.ojii.ch/one.png
[18:28] <rtgz> ojii, ok, then could you please pastebin the contents of ~/.cache/ubuntuone/log/syncdaemon.log ?
[18:28] <ojii> sure thing
[18:30] <ojii> there's no plaintext passwords or whatever in there I guess?
[18:30] <ojii> rtgz: http://paste.ubuntu.com/358621/
[18:30] <rtgz> no, only filenames are the most sensitive part
[18:31] <ojii> i don't see how filenames can be very sensitive... so no problem there
[18:32] <rtgz> ojii, ok, looks a bit strange. Do you have some 15 minutes to debug this?
[18:33] <ojii> sure
[18:33] <rtgz> ojii, if yes, then could you please shut down the syncdaemon (the daemon that is responsible for syncing the files) with u1sdtool -q
[18:33] <ojii> done
[18:34] <ojii> rtgz: done
[18:34] <rtgz> ojii, then check that ps auxw | grep ubuntuone-syncdaemon does not return anything
[18:34] <ojii> nah still there, should i kill it?
[18:34] <rtgz> if that returns some running process, (except grep) then kill it
[18:34] <rtgz> hm, 2 syncdaemons?...
[18:34] <ojii> ops
[18:34] <ojii> was the grep
[18:35] <rtgz> ojii, it is already dead so it is ok :)
[18:35] <ojii> always forget about that when i ps | grep something
[18:35] <rtgz> ojii, yep, I should have said ps auxw | grep [u]buntuone-syncdaemon
[18:36] <ojii> o.O that's actually good to know
[18:36] <rtgz> ojii, ok, now start the syncdaemon with debugging enabled: /usr/lib/ubuntuone-client/ubuntuone-syncdaemon --debug > ~/syncdaemon-debug.log
[18:36] <rtgz> ojii, reconnect to the cloud via the applet and try putting some file to Ubuntu One directory
[18:39] <ojii> conflicted again, btw I get 'updating finished: ubuntu one finished updating 0 files'
[18:39] <ojii> and isn't the daemon supposed to go to background when i launch it from the shell? Or does it stay with debug on?
[18:41] <rtgz> ojii, ok, now pastebin the contents of the generated syncdaemon-debug.log
[18:41] <rtgz> ojii, 0 files.. yes, need to poke devs about it, It also says so when there are only files removed...
[18:41] <ojii> rtgz: http://paste.ubuntu.com/358628/
[18:42] <jamalta> rtgz: why does using the bracket on grep keep it from showing up in the results?
[18:42] <jamalta> or rather, how
[18:43] <jamalta> (not related at all with the issue, sorry!)
[18:43] <rtgz> jamalta, "[u]" becomes a part of the command line, but grep will use "u" letter only, since [u] is simply u when regular expression is expanded
[18:44] <jamalta> rtgz: hm.. interesting, i get the regular expression part.. not sure what it means for it to become part of the command line though
[18:44] <jamalta> cool trick nonetheless
[18:45] <ojii> i agree :D
[18:46] <ojii> prevents newbies like me to think stuff is still running
[18:46] <rtgz> jamalta, so grep sees "grep [u]buntuone" literally while it is searching for "ubuntuone" string
[18:47] <rtgz> ojii, back to the log, reading it right now :)
[18:47] <jamalta> rtgz: OH! RIGHT That makes sense
[18:47] <jamalta> i feel like a fool for not seeing that at first :)
[18:47] <jamalta> thanks
[18:49] <ojii> oh just btw, ubuntuone is written in python? (the log looks a lot like it uses python)
[18:52] <jamalta> ojii: yeap
[18:53] <ojii> nice, this makes me like it again despite not working for me ;)
[18:53] <jamalta> ojii: heh, well it's somewhat working
[18:53] <jamalta> and if you're experiencing a bug, then it is likely you aren't the only one
[18:53] <jamalta> so it's great that you're trying to discuss it here :)
[18:53] <ojii> as i said: not working *for me*
[18:56] <jamalta> ojii: i understand, and i'm sure the devs will be glad to help you as soon as they can put some attention towards your issue
[18:59] <ojii> meh I'm sure rtgz will magically solve that problem
[19:00] <rtgz> ojii, when did it start?
[19:00] <rtgz> ojii, I mean when has it started malfunctioning?
[19:00] <ojii> what start?
[19:00] <ojii> ah
[19:01] <ojii> rtgz: well last time I checked (probably a month or so ago) it wouldn't even connect (crash on me trying to connect). Now I tried again yesterday and I get this problem
[19:02] <verterok> hi ojii, rtgz
[19:03] <ojii> hi verterok
[19:03] <rtgz> ojii, hmm.. could you please pastebin the contents of /etc/xdg/ubuntuone/syncdaemon.conf
[19:03] <rtgz> shot in the dark..
[19:04] <ojii> rtgz: http://paste.ubuntu.com/358639/
[19:04] <rtgz> verterok, summary: ojii's syncdaemon loses the file and then renames it to conflict
[19:04] <verterok> rtgz: thanks :)
[19:05] <verterok> ojii: do you have multiple ubuntu one/launchpad accounts?
[19:06] <ojii> verterok: I don't think so....
[19:06] <rtgz> verterok, http://paste.ubuntu.com/358628
[19:06] <ojii> but launchpad is confusing
[19:06] <rtgz> verterok, syncdaemon w/ debug
[19:07] <verterok> ojii, rtgz: looks like the problem is that the MakeFile is failing, with a DOES_NOT_EXIST error, this means that the parent does not exist
[19:07] <verterok> in this case the parent is the root, so I'm quite sure it exists
[19:07] <rtgz> verterok, you mean Ubuntu One ?
[19:07] <verterok> rtgz: yes
[19:07] <rtgz> verterok, ubuntuone does exist, I am using it :)
[19:08] <verterok> my best guess is that the id of root stored in the client metadata isn't the root of the authenticated user
[19:08] <facundobatista> verterok, we had a very similar case to this after changing the user's auth stuff, right?
[19:08] <verterok> ojii: do you have any files in ~/Ubuntu One?
[19:09] <verterok> facundobatista: don't remember
[19:09] <ojii> verterok: yes, i put three files there for testing, i also have the Shared with me thing
[19:09] <rtgz> verterok, so the file gets to the folder, then the parent is checked, the parent does not exist and everything breaks
[19:09] <verterok> rtgz: sort of :)
[19:09] <ojii> I'm pretty sure this is an early sign of 2012 :D
[19:10] <verterok> facundobatista: what auth stuff changed?
[19:10] <rtgz> ojii, the sign of 2012 is that we will run out of IPv4 addresses. Syncdaemon is not related to apocalypse
[19:11] <rtgz> verterok, so, if we remove metadata info, reinitialize syncdaemon then everything should be back to normal?
[19:11] <ojii> rtgz: good point, and I'm more scared of 2038 since I still have a server running on 32bit
[19:11] <facundobatista> verterok, user gets a root in the server, and after that something changes at user/auth/token level, and then it tries to put files on *other* roots
[19:11] <verterok> ojii: ok, as you don't have any files, let's do a backup of all syncdaemon metadata and files
[19:11] <ojii> yay
[19:11] <ojii> sounds like fun
[19:11] <verterok> facundobatista: somethin changes in the server side?
[19:12] <verterok> ojii: tar -cjf ubuntuone_metadata.tar.bz2 ~/.share/local/ubuntuone
[19:12] <verterok> oops
[19:12] <verterok> ojii: tar -cjf ubuntuone_metadata.tar.bz2 ~/.local/share/ubuntuone
[19:12] <ojii> lol
[19:13] <ojii> makes more sense
[19:13] <verterok> ojii: and: tar -cjf ubuntuone_cache.tar.bz2 ~/.cache/ubuntuone
[19:13] <ojii> done
[19:14] <ojii> now rm -Rf those I guess
[19:14] <verterok> ojii: and last: tar -cjf UbuntuOne.tar.bz2 ~/Ubuntu\ One
[19:14] <verterok> ojii: yes, rm -Rf ~/.local/share/ubuntuone ~/.cache/ubuntuone ~/Ubuntu\ One
[19:14] <ojii> done
[19:14] <verterok> ojii: quit syncdaemon first ;)
[19:15] <verterok> ojii: once you removed all that stuff, start syncdaemon
[19:15] <ojii> how do i do that best?
[19:15] <ojii> just ubuntuone-syncdaemon?
[19:16] <verterok> ojii: in order to get the debug logs: /usr/lib/ubuntuone-client/ubuntuone-syncdaemon --debug > ~/syncdaemon-debug.log
[19:16] <ojii> ah kay
[19:16] <ojii> can i force that to background?
[19:16] <ojii> I don't like to have open shells everywhere
[19:16] <verterok> ojii: once we check it's working, you can quit the applet and start it again,m and that will start syncdaemon
[19:17] <ojii> okay started daemon, reconnect and try to add a file?
[19:18] <verterok> ojii: yes, please
[19:18] <ojii> verterok: will you marry me?
[19:18] <verterok> hehehe
[19:19] <ojii> verterok: (= it works!)
[19:19] <ojii> but i guess you figured that out
[19:19] <verterok> ojii: cool!
[19:20] <ojii> indeed
[19:20] <ojii> thanks verterok and rtgz!
[19:20] <verterok> ojii: looks like syncdaemon was previously connected with a different launchpad/sso account, ATM syncdaemon doesn't support changin the LP/sso username
[19:21] <ojii> now i gotta find something useful to use this for :D
[19:22] <rtgz> verterok, i changed LP account name several times, syncdaemon continued to work properly...
[19:22]  * rtgz YES! now all my text messages are fetched via bt/serial connection by smsd and dispatched to local sendmail... Niiice...
[19:24] <verterok> rtgz: ups, yes. you can change the account name, but you will break it if you remove the oauth tokens and create new ones with a different account ;)
[19:24] <ojii> can I just share a folder with 'everyone'?
[19:31] <rtgz> ojii, no, you need to find someone to try sharing. Public access is not yet supported. But public urls for some files are planned, I guess
[19:31] <ojii> ah cool
[19:32] <ojii> wanted to use this with shutter so i don't have to upload the files all the time...
[19:56] <jamalta> ojii: i'm waiting as well.. i love the ability to do this with Dropbox but I honestly would much rather do it with Ubuntu One
[19:57] <rtgz> guys, just for the record. What's the official status of Tomboy notes web?
[20:04] <rtgz> here, just for the record, what is the status of http://one.ubuntu.com/notes/ ?
[20:05]  * rtgz oO( "Ask here". Ok, asking "here" )
[20:41] <statik> hi rtgz: I'm not sure I understand your question about official status of http://one.ubuntu.com/notes/
[20:42] <rtgz> statik, short story: does not work
[20:42]  * statik logs in to the notes UI to check
[20:42] <rtgz> statik, long story: it stopped working one day before christmas. New notes are created, but only one revision is saved. Subsequent edits get lost
[20:43] <statik> oh man that is terrible
[20:43] <rtgz> statik, no edits of the existing notes are possible
[20:43] <rtgz> statik, Bug 501020
[20:43] <statik> cardinalfang has a branch open that tries to address a problem with how notes are versioned inside couchdb
[20:44] <rtgz> statik, yep, but this is like... "we support note sync!*" and at the same time "* Only one sync per note created on the web interface" :)
[20:44] <statik> rtgz, this totally sucks. i see it now too "there was a problem with saving your note"
[20:44] <rtgz> statik, I even awarded it a "christmas-bug" tag...
[20:46] <rtgz> statik, http://twitter.com/UbuntuOne/status/6928891051 - This was the only notes-related info after that upgrade. Tomboy sync is broken, this is known, somehow, maybe, ... but the web UI unable to perform the edits might affect UbuntuOne credibility as this is one of the core routines.
[20:47] <statik> rtgz: for sure. thanks for bringing it up. I wonder if it's related to this bug: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntuone-servers/+bug/499595
[20:47] <statik> oh, i need to make that public
[20:49] <statik> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntuone-servers/+bug/499595
[20:49] <rtgz> statik, yup, looks like this is what happens behind the scenes
[20:51] <statik> looks like cardinalfang has a branch to fix that, and it's been through code review but not yet landed
[20:52] <statik> i need to check and see whether edge is still rolling out every 4 hours, might be able to test this very soon
[20:53] <rtgz> statik, ok, thanks. 'cause it looks like nobody from the dev team have tested the /notes/ ui recently.
[20:57] <statik> rtgz: this is a problem that we're trying to figure out a good strategy for. i'd like to have simple regression/acceptances tests running so it's immediately obvious if something stops working. simple is so easy to say and not so easy to accomplish though. We've got some EC2 machines that we could configure hudson on, and I've been talking to folks about setting up windmill - but also wondering whether we should be using something like cuc
[20:57] <statik> umber or pyfit
[20:57] <statik> so hudson would take care of running the regression/acceptance tests on edge every day
[20:58] <statik> and we'd need to write a windmill script or something to login, edit notes, and confirm that things work ok
[20:58] <statik> naturally there will always be some tests that need to be done manually - what i'd really like is a way to record and publish the results of any manual testing, so that we can see what hasn't been checked in a while, and make it easy to give people credit when they help with testing things
[20:59] <rtgz> statik, or selenium until that's done?
[20:59] <statik> oh yeah, selenium would be great too
[21:00] <rtgz> statik, the problem is that there are bug reports about these issues, it's just not that clear how to "push" them so that they become more visible
[21:04] <statik> rtgz: that is a good point, and something that i've noticed too. there are some important bugs that sometimes get overlooked for a while
[21:06] <statik> rtgz: i don't have a complete solution yet, but I have reorganized the team a bit so that we have more people working on QA related activities, and I'm hiring a full time person to do bug triage and make sure that the most important bugs get prioritized or escalated correctly. What we had been doing before is having each developer take a turn one or two days a month doing bug triage. thats great for spreading knowledge but it hasn't been s
[21:06] <statik> o efficient for staying on top of the bug triage inflow


[06:58] <ychouchane> hello
[06:58] <ychouchane> how are u !
[06:58] <ychouchane> today
[06:59] <ychouchane> well i have found how remove dhcp server on my ltsp server
[06:59] <ychouchane> but now i can't conenct the ltsp server on my network how do that please
[07:00] <ychouchane> alkisg, thnaks for u link
[07:00] <alkisg> You're welcome
[07:00] <ychouchane> in this link i have found how configure my windows dhcp
[07:00] <ychouchane>  now how i can"t conenct my edubuntu server on my network
[07:00] <ychouchane> how i can add some fix ip on it please ?
[10:02] <ychouchane> alkisg, i realy don"t understanf i have delleted the dhcp server like the ubuntu wiki says, but he give ip on my new machine
[10:02] <ychouchane> incredible
[13:11] <highvoltage> ychouchane: so currently you have the network section that's above the line on http://paste.ubuntu.com/1065986/
[13:12] <highvoltage> ychouchane: if you remove the ip address info like below the line and change static to dhcp, then the machine will get dhcp from the network
[13:16] <bencer> hi all
[13:29] <ychouchane> highvoltage, ok for this
[13:30] <ychouchane> but why i have remove dhcp3 and edubuntu give some ip ?
[13:39] <ychouchane> ii give up
[13:40] <highvoltage> yc<tab> *sigh*
[13:51] <Hyperbyte> hi voltage plz tell me i have just installed webserver 2apache but now edubuntu still doesnt work with internet surfing
[13:52] <highvoltage> hehe Hyperbyte :)
[13:53] <highvoltage> Hyperbyte: we also get weird messages form the edubuntu webcontact form... like today:
[13:53] <highvoltage> (details removed to protect the ignorant) sent a message using the contact form at http://www.edubuntu.com/contact.
[13:53] <highvoltage> I NEED A DVD TAPE
[13:54] <Hyperbyte> That's it?
[13:54] <highvoltage> not always sure if these people are just trolling. I usually give them the benefit of the doubt
[13:54] <Hyperbyte> Hahahhahahahahhahahah
[13:54] <highvoltage> yep, that's it.
[13:54] <highvoltage> and we often get things like that
[14:10] <Hyperbyte> There's this softphone I follow... registered to the list as well, SFLphone
[14:10] <Hyperbyte> Great softphone for business use
[14:10] <Hyperbyte> (www.sflphone.org!)
[14:11] <Hyperbyte> Anyway... you'd be surprised how many people write to their website contact form about that they installed the app, and that they can't make calls.
[14:11] <Hyperbyte> Usually this is because they don't have a SIP account / VoIP provider.
[14:12] <Hyperbyte> The program now shows a wizard explaining the workings of SIP when you boot it up without any accounts configured. :)
[15:48] <stgraber> highvoltage: I pushed a few more updates to the edubuntu-server branch yesterday, mostly adding a new management tool (well, the skeleton of it at least), added automated manpage generation for the lot, some more packaging fixes and an upstart job
[15:48] <stgraber> so it now builds packages you can actually install (and enjoy seeing them do nothing at all ;))
[16:22] <computerman> hey
[16:23] <computerman> I've went over my head and purchased a server (i really dont know why either) and now i have problems setting up the raid!
[16:23] <computerman> is anyone around to help?
[16:27] <stgraber> did you try #ubuntu-server? I'd think you'd be more likely to get a quick answer there
[16:29] <computerman> stgraber: thanks: i thought #edubuntu referred to education as in help
[16:31] <alkisg> free-support-and-education-buntu
[16:31] <stgraber> ;)
[16:32] <highvoltage> well people are free to ask anything in here but they might just be better off asking it somewhere more specific :)
[16:33] <alkisg> Sure, I was just commenting on "i thought #edubuntu referred to education as in help"
[16:35] <highvoltage> yeah I couldn't parse that
[17:34] <alkisg> stgraber: the new epoptes version is supposed to work fine with ssvnc, if you have any arm hardware and can test it'd be nice (/me doesn't...)
[17:36] <stgraber> alkisg: ok, we'll test when we get the tablets
[17:36] <alkisg> Cool
[17:36] <stgraber> alkisg: poke! (have they actually shipped?)
[17:37] <alkisg> I think highvoltage said they had some problems with shipping, but they solved them now?
[17:39] <stgraber> well, RLNX had some problems with payment and zareason didn't want to ship until they were paid (kind of understandable)
[17:39] <highvoltage> actually zareason was very nice! they shipped it and said we can sort out payment later
[17:40] <highvoltage> so rlnx used the rest of the paypal limit to pay them a part and will pay the rest next month when the counter resets again
[17:40] <highvoltage> Pierre-Luc asked them for a tracking number, which we'd probably get on monday because of the timezone delays
[17:41] <highvoltage> at least it's coming from california, so I suppose there's a good chance we'll have it by the end of next week
[17:41] <highvoltage> alkisg: I'll post you one the day we get them
[17:41] <alkisg> Nice, thanks!
[17:42] <alkisg> I'll keep it around for a while to install edubuntu on it and then ship it to Phantomas
[17:42] <highvoltage> alkisg: could you mail me the address I should post it to?
[17:42] <alkisg> Sure
[17:42] <highvoltage> ogra_: and could you email me your postal address (for shipping the tablet to) as well?
[17:43] <alkisg> Done
[17:43] <highvoltage> cool
[19:15] <jbicha> still being designed, but this is definitely something to look for: http://worldofgnome.org/lockdown-the-new-kickass-gnome-app/
[19:23] <alkisg> Sounds nice :) And following the links, I fell upon that one: http://worldofgnome.org/uploads/2012/06/gnomevsubuntu.png
[19:23] <alkisg> ...upstart => systemd, unity => gnome-shell, ubuntu software center => gnome software center... when does it stop? :D
[19:31] <stgraber> highvoltage: looks like we had the quickest full EC vote ever ;)
[19:33]  * highvoltage is an expert poker
[19:33] <highvoltage> stgraber: now we have to send a message to canonical about our intentions now that we at least have internal consensus
[22:35] <zax1> i am having a hell of a time with a fresh install of edubuntu on a dell d630 laptop... the wifi does not want to work. i tried reinstalling it but now i cant even see a wifi option up in the network option, help !@!


[00:07] <BobJonkman> Hey Everybodeee: O'buntu Hour Kitchener on  St. Patrick's Day: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2211396


[14:31] <cpaelzer> hiho
[14:31] <cpaelzer> prepping the meeting ...
[14:32] <ddstreet> o/
[14:32]  * ddstreet in other meeting as well, so only please ping me if needed
[14:32] <cpaelzer> no
[14:32] <cpaelzer> np
[14:32] <cpaelzer> #startmeeting Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status
[14:32] <meetingology> Meeting started at 14:32:59 UTC.  The chair is cpaelzer.  Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
[14:33] <meetingology> Available commands: action, commands, idea, info, link, nick
[14:33] <cpaelzer> d_dstreet is here
[14:33] <cpaelzer> also pinging sarnold doko didrocks jamespage
[14:33] <cpaelzer> we know a few are unavailable this week
[14:33] <cpaelzer> so I'm almost expecting a status-monologue
[14:33] <cpaelzer> 1. no previous actions
[14:33] <cpaelzer> #topic current component mismatches
[14:33] <cpaelzer> #link https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches-proposed.svg
[14:33] <cpaelzer> #link https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.svg
[14:35] <cpaelzer> not seeing sarnold here :-/
[14:35] <cpaelzer> I wanted to ask about the timing of https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fence-agents/+bug/1927004 since we close in on feature freze
[14:35] <cpaelzer> I'll ask in the seucrity channel instead
[14:36] <cpaelzer> done
[14:36] <doko> o/
[14:36] <cpaelzer> hi doko, nice to see you
[14:36] <cpaelzer> everything else in these lists is known or false-positives
[14:37] <cpaelzer> #topic New MIRs
[14:37] <cpaelzer> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=NEW&field.status%3Alist=CONFIRMED&assignee_option=none&field.assignee=&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
[14:37] <cpaelzer> egl-wayland is on ddstreet - he had requirements and we need to check if all are fulfilled
[14:37] <ddstreet> cpaelzer that's the one waiting on the q about missing tests
[14:38] <cpaelzer> one in particular is testing on special HW which we usually prohibit - ddstreet was so kind and suggested to put a formal "what if we need special HW for tests" in the MIR process
[14:38] <cpaelzer> I think we are not enough people to discuss that statement for our process
[14:38] <cpaelzer> but doko if you and I could read the case for 3 min and ack/nack if that is ok
[14:39] <cpaelzer> see the ping above it is about us saying "missing tests" and the owning team saying "can't be done in build/autopkgtest"
[14:39] <cpaelzer> generally I think that is ok
[14:39]  * cpaelzer is reading
[14:40] <doko> is ubuntu-x-swat a team that we recognize?
[14:40] <cpaelzer> we said no to that in the past
[14:40] <cpaelzer> ddstreet: yeah this case has my ack in regard to the tests - here a build/autopkgtest (while nice) just isn't feasible
[14:40] <cpaelzer> we said no to ubuntu-x-swat I mean
[14:40] <doko> right, the hardware tests don't work. can we add a requirement that somebody has checked this locally?
[14:40] <cpaelzer> it needs to be a canonical-team as that is who offers the "support"
[14:41] <cpaelzer> doko: excatly, in the past we had this on dpdk and there we (server team) confirmed that we have a machine with special HW and regularly doing tests
[14:41] <cpaelzer> something like that I'd put into the formal MIR requirements
[14:41] <doko> sounds ok for me
[14:41] <cpaelzer> but when we have more people here to vote
[14:42] <cpaelzer> doko: does it have a real team subscriber as well or only ubuntu-x-swat
[14:42] <doko> which probably isn't going to work this week
[14:42] <doko> no other team subscriber
[14:43] <cpaelzer> I'm updating the case then
[14:43] <ddstreet> should the case go back to owned by me, waiting on further discussion in later mir team mtg?
[14:45] <cpaelzer> ddstreet: no it goes to seucrity IMHO
[14:45] <cpaelzer> the subscription can be solved while waiting for them
[14:45] <ddstreet> ack sounds good
[14:46] <cpaelzer> updated
[14:46] <cpaelzer> #topic Incomplete bugs / questions
[14:46] <cpaelzer> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
[14:46] <cpaelzer> nothing since last week
[14:46] <cpaelzer> doko: I fail to remember which one, but IIRC some case was assigned to you and still open
[14:47] <cpaelzer> doko: are you aware which one or do I need to check logs?
[14:47] <cpaelzer> and if you are aware could you link it and estimate when it will be done (a MIR review IIRC) ?
[14:47] <cpaelzer> while we look for that we enter the next section
[14:47] <cpaelzer> #topic Any other business?
[14:47] <doko> urgh, don't remember which one
[14:48] <doko> was this some fuse stuff?
[14:48] <cpaelzer> no, that was a different case
[14:48] <cpaelzer> let me check
[14:50] <cpaelzer> doko: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/adsys/+bug/1936907 ?
[14:50] <cpaelzer> I think that was what didrocks waited on
[14:50] <cpaelzer> anything else for today ?
[14:51] <doko> ok
[14:51] <cpaelzer> ddstreet: we will have to remember about adding a statement for the special-HW testing for when more MIR members are available
[14:51] <cpaelzer> ok - if there is nothing else I'd close for today
[14:51] <cpaelzer> thanks doko and ddstreet for not letting me alone here :-)
[14:51] <cpaelzer> #endmeeting
[14:51] <meetingology> Meeting ended at 14:51:53 UTC.  Minutes at https://new.ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2021/ubuntu-meeting.2021-08-17-14.32.moin.txt
[18:59] <mdeslaur> \o
[19:01] <rbasak> o/
[19:02]  * vorlon waves
[19:04] <mdeslaur> so, looks like we're july 27th and I'm chairing
[19:04] <mdeslaur> is 3 quorum?
[19:05] <cyphermox> o/
[19:05] <vorlon> we've treated 3 as quorum in the past; but now we're 4 anyway :)
[19:05] <mdeslaur> hi cyphermox
[19:05] <mdeslaur> ok. let's get this road on the show
[19:05] <mdeslaur> #startmeeting
[19:05] <meetingology> Meeting started at 19:05:43 UTC.  The chair is mdeslaur.  Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
[19:05] <meetingology> Available commands: action, commands, idea, info, link, nick
[19:05] <mdeslaur> [topic] Apologies
[19:05] <mdeslaur> no apologies
[19:06] <mdeslaur> [topic] Action review
[19:06] <mdeslaur> "Wimpress To follow-up on-list with design review to address MATE Boutique security/consent concerns. "
[19:06] <mdeslaur> Wimpy ^
[19:07] <mdeslaur> I'm trying to remember, didn't someone volunteer to get in touch with the mate team about that?
[19:07] <rbasak> I did manage to speak to Martin very briefly on IRC
[19:08] <mdeslaur> did anything come out of it?
[19:08]  * rbasak is looking for the log
[19:08] <rbasak> Can we come back to it in a moment?
[19:09] <mdeslaur> sure, let's move on in the meantime
[19:09] <mdeslaur> orlon to circle around with store, snapcraft, et all, and revise the snap source revision policy to be more clear with regards to rebuildability and GPL compliance.
[19:09] <mdeslaur> whoops
[19:09] <mdeslaur> s/orlon/vorlon/
[19:09] <vorlon> carry over
[19:09] <mdeslaur> and "vorlon to reply to seeded snap upload permissions question on list "
[19:09] <vorlon> fwiw there are some developments that suggest we might get some more work done on it soon, as firefox is moving to a snap
[19:10] <mdeslaur> ok
[19:10] <mdeslaur> "sil2100 to start a draft summarizing the OEM archive portion of the meeting which xnox and TB will review, edit, and ratify before we move on to figuring out the next step "
[19:10] <vorlon> so I suspecct I will have fewer excuses for it not getting my attention
[19:10] <mdeslaur> he's not here, so let's carry that one over
[19:10] <cyphermox> vorlon: it's long carried over, will that move as well, pushed by firefox (rebuildability) ?
[19:11] <vorlon> cyphermox: I think so
[19:11] <cyphermox> ack
[19:11] <mdeslaur> "rbasak to follow up regarding security-team's advice on the flatpak TB request "
[19:11] <rbasak> I did request the security team's input
[19:11] <rbasak> Not had a reply
[19:12] <mdeslaur> hrm, I think seth discussed it, but I don't think he officially answered...he's on vacation this week, so let's wait
[19:12] <mdeslaur> "Work on getting a set of requirements for Ubuntu packages that enable third party software repositiories by default - related to a ML entry "
[19:13] <vorlon> was this a group action?
[19:13] <vorlon> I hadn't seen any mailing list replies after my belated one
[19:14] <vorlon> not sure if I killed the mood by pointing out he's better off repackaging as a snap than waiting for a flatpak policy?
[19:14] <rbasak> IIRC, at a previous meeting we concluded that we (the TB) could come with a set of requirements and communicate it back
[19:14] <rbasak> And we started working on that on the pad
[19:14] <vorlon> ah right
[19:15] <mdeslaur> I think vorlon captured the main criteria that really is the first step, which is "one thing we have been consistent about in
[19:15] <mdeslaur> the past when enabling additional repositories by default in flavors has
[19:15] <mdeslaur> been maintaining Canonical as a single root of trust"
[19:16] <rbasak> I've found the log about MATE/Boutique when we're ready
[19:16] <rbasak> I think it'd be helpful to enumerate the requirements still
[19:16] <cyphermox> I will have an AOB item later
[19:16] <mdeslaur> I don't think there's any reason to work on more criteria if that first one can't be met by DisplayCal
[19:18] <rbasak> Maybe, as a compromise, we could summarise the other points raised, but make it clear that they aren't ratified? To provide an idea of what might be required, but to save us the effort of continuing if DisplayCal isn't going to meet them anyway.
[19:18] <mdeslaur> I'd be ok with that
[19:19] <mdeslaur> cyphermox, vorlon: thoughts?
[19:21] <cyphermox> well I agree on preparing a set of requirements ahead of time even if they're not firmed up
[19:21] <cyphermox> basically, getting the discussion rolling
[19:21] <rbasak> https://pad.ubuntu.com/third-party-repository-requirements is what we have right now
[19:21] <cyphermox> yup
[19:21] <rbasak> I think a couple of those requirements aren't currently met for snaps
[19:22] <rbasak> "Proposed requirement: the package is maintained by someone with Ubuntu developer membership" - not a requirement for chromium snap maintenance I think?
[19:22] <rbasak> and "behaviour will remain "stable" for the lifetime of an Ubuntu release. It is not to be on a "rolling release" from the users perspective" contradicts a statement at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuSeededSnaps
[19:25] <mdeslaur> which statement does that contradict?
[19:27] <cyphermox> behavior remaining stable; typically that meant no new features for debs
[19:27] <rbasak> The Snap Store ecosystem empowers snap publishers to make their own  decisions about how and whether to backport security fixes to stable  releases vs. updating the package in the channel to a new upstream  version.  We accept this model as well for installed-by-default snaps,  with the understanding that the publisher of each of these snaps is  expected to deliver a good experience to their users."
[19:28] <mdeslaur> that same page also says "Including software in the default install of Ubuntu implies a certain commitment to handle upgrades cleanly and to provide continuity of behavior across updates within the stable release."
[19:28] <rbasak> FWIW, that page isn't ratified either
[19:28] <rbasak> (AIUI)
[19:29] <rbasak> It would be nice IMHO to get this all properly squared off.
[19:29] <rbasak> More important now that community members might feel that they don't have agency in the project by being measured differently for what they want to achieve.
[19:30] <rbasak> (with a real world request, rather than a hypothetical)
[19:31] <vorlon> rbasak: "maintained by someone with Ubuntu developer membership" - yes, I don't think that had come up in those specific terms in the past when talking about snaps; we had talked about ensuring there was a path for the community to take over, but that where upstreams were maintaining app packages they should have autonomy
[19:32] <mdeslaur> my thought there was that the package would be maintained by someone who has a vested interest in Ubuntu...if someone is maintaining a snap or a flatpak and doesn't care about testing it on Ubuntu, I don't see how we could possibly use it
[19:32] <vorlon> likewise, regarding "stability": the vision here was that we enable easy and secure delivery of the upstream experience, even where that differs from traditional Ubuntu SRU standards
[19:32] <mdeslaur> requiring developer membership seemed like an appropriate requirement to me
[19:33] <mdeslaur> so I think it's going to take a while to come up with requirements we all agree with...meanwhile, we have someone waiting for DisplayCal
[19:34] <vorlon> mdeslaur: if this is an upstream development team who maintains the package collectively, based on the view that snaps or flatpaks are a way to deliver their software to the entire Linux ecosystem without having to deal with individual distributions (which is basically the sales pitch for both of these packaging formats), what would be the expectation here? Ubuntu developer membership for each
[19:34] <vorlon> member of the upstream team?
[19:35] <mdeslaur> I don't know
[19:35] <vorlon> ok
[19:35] <mdeslaur> I don't think requiring ubuntu membership is reasonable for an upstream
[19:35] <mdeslaur> but then again, I don't think having upstreams deliver their software directly to users is reasonable either, so what do I know :)
[19:36] <mdeslaur> I just don't want us to seed something that the packager is going to respond "I don't care about ubuntu" to any issue that comes up
[19:38] <rbasak> That seems reasonable.
[19:39] <mdeslaur> In this particular case, unless I'm mistaken, the person requesting that DisplayCal be seeded isn't the packager, so how do we make sure the packager there is even interested in making sure Ubuntu is a first-class citizen
[19:39] <rbasak> To make progress, I wonder if we can split the proposed requirements into a few categories.
[19:39] <rbasak> Some we might agree unanimously
[19:40] <vorlon> well, from my perspective flathub as a whole is a non-starter, so then what
[19:40] <rbasak> Some I think contradict UbuntuSeededSnaps, and so I think are either invalid or need adjusting or UbuntuSeededSnaps, so whichever way cannot be ratified by us right now
[19:40] <rbasak> Some I think we don't necessarily agree on ourselves
[19:40] <cyphermox> why does it need to be seeded in the first place? what does it solve that can't work by someone installing it on their own if it's available?
[19:41] <rbasak> vorlon: I don't think that we can use your statement as-is. Is it worth going through five whys, or not?
[19:41] <rbasak> cyphermox: I think Eickmeyer's position is that it's important that it's there on Ubuntu Studio by dfeault
[19:41] <vorlon> rbasak: which statement? the one on the mailing list?
[19:41] <mdeslaur> I think one of the categories can be "Default repositories"
[19:42] <rbasak> vorlon: "from my perspective flathub as a whole is a non-starter"
[19:42] <vorlon> rbasak: because it's an additional root of trust
[19:42] <rbasak> mdeslaur: I think that's a second dimension
[19:42] <Eickmeyer> rbasak: It would be nice (recently had an inquery about it), and I'm running into roadblox with making a snap.
[19:42] <Eickmeyer> *roadblocks
[19:42] <rbasak> vorlon: oh, OK. So you have a separate requirement there I think. "Canonical must be the root of trust"
[19:42] <rbasak> I'll add that.
[19:43] <rbasak> Though it sort of overlaps with "must be built on infrastructure we trust"
[19:43] <rbasak> Let me label them
[19:43] <cyphermox> rbasak: I guess, but seeded packages/snap are basically a showcase of what's nice, or things that are absolutely required for systems to work. DisplayCAL is nice, but it's not necessarily useful to the vast majority of users (ie. it's good for graphics, it's not really useful if you're trying to make sound effects, music, etc.)
[19:43] <mdeslaur> root of trust of distribution isn't the same as where it was built
[19:44] <mdeslaur> those are two separate things, but related
[19:45] <rbasak> cyphermox: I think that's for the flavor leads to decide though. It's not really for the TB. But what we need to do is enable (by setting the expectations and requirements) flavors to be able to seed what they think is appropriate.
[19:45] <vorlon> rbasak: +1
[19:45] <cyphermox> rbasak: oh, for sure, but I mean if you're trying to decide seeding in general vs. the case
[19:45] <vorlon> (that it's the flavor leads' decision)
[19:45] <mdeslaur> I agree with rbasak, not our decision
[19:46] <cyphermox> and if the publisher doesn't appear to care about Ubuntu, why should Ubuntu care about the publisher?
[19:46] <cyphermox> I'm not saying otherwise, I liked displaycal :P
[19:46] <rbasak> I think this is a pretty nuanced question.
[19:46] <rbasak> For example we ship calibre as a deb, contrary to upstream's desire there.
[19:46] <vorlon> cyphermox: I'm not sure the point you're making regaring caring
[19:47] <cyphermox> but calibre has Ubuntu developers preparing the package
[19:47] <rbasak> We presumably think it's OK because it's permitted by the licensing and we're in control of its distribution when users consume it from us
[19:47] <cyphermox> vorlon: I'm trying to paint the picture of having a committed maintainer for something
[19:48] <mdeslaur> The scenario we don,t want is to seed something and for it to stop working because the packager doesn't care about Ubuntu
[19:48] <cyphermox> yep
[19:48] <rbasak> So what I'm saying is that it meets proposed requirement B.
[19:48] <rbasak> But some snaps also meet proposed requirement B, and if a DisplayCal flatpak can be made to meet that requirement too, then that might be OK.
[19:48] <cyphermox> yes
[19:48] <rbasak> This might mean that it can't be shipped via Flathub
[19:49] <rbasak> But I don't want to dictate that. I want to specify what we need, which I think is better stated in B
[19:49] <mdeslaur> requirement B is the fail-safe, I want a requirement where the developer is involved and agrees that their package is going to be seeded
[19:49] <rbasak> mdeslaur: but we don't do that with any other deb package in the archive
[19:50] <rbasak> (eg. calibre)
[19:50] <mdeslaur> sure we do, the ubuntu developers group
[19:50] <mdeslaur> the debs in the archive are there because ubuntu developers agree that they should be
[19:51] <rbasak> OK, so if Ubuntu Studio "fork" the Flatpak package, and ship it still as a Flatpak but from somewhere else, and agree that this fork is going to be seeded, would you be happy with that?
[19:51] <mdeslaur> oh sorry, I just noticed I said "developer" when I meant "packager"
[19:52] <cyphermox> how do you ensure the builds happen on trusted infrastructure?
[19:52] <mdeslaur> If the ubuntu studio team is taking over packaging, then yes, I'd be ok with that
[19:52] <mdeslaur> (assuming we had a canonical-controlled flatpak repo and build system)
[19:52] <rbasak> mdeslaur: define "taking over". We don't do that for packages we autosync from Debian
[19:52] <cyphermox> fork
[19:53] <rbasak> cyphermox: builds happening on trusted infrastructure is requirement F
[19:53] <cyphermox> rbasak: yes, I know
[19:53] <mdeslaur> rbasak: we "take over" packages we sync from debian
[19:53] <mdeslaur> rbasak: debian no longer maintains the packages in ubuntu
[19:53] <rbasak> I think that's a technicality
[19:53] <cyphermox> rbasak: I was basically saying the same as mdeslaur, "assuming canonical-controlled flatpak repo and build system")
[19:54] <vorlon> rbasak: fork and ship elsewhere> in principle yes, but that means getting a separate flatpak store signed by Canonical, which realistically isn't going to happen for one package, so what's the point in the end?
[19:54] <rbasak> What matters is that someone is committed to be able to intervene on behalf of users, without users needing to take action themselves.
[19:54] <rbasak> Which is requirement B, and not a separate thing
[19:54] <rbasak> vorlon: I'm just saying that between B and F I think we have this subthread covered
[19:54] <vorlon> it's good to know what our principles are, but at some point we're spending times on unrealistic generalized hypotheticals
[19:54] <mdeslaur> so if the packager won't fix an ubuntu-specific bug, we override the repo?
[19:55] <rbasak> mdeslaur: I propose that it be a requirement that this is something the Ubuntu project be in a position to do
[19:55] <mdeslaur> I have a hard-stop in 5 minutes, unfortunately
[19:55] <rbasak> Whether it happens or not is a separate matter
[19:56] <mdeslaur> I don't think that's enough. I think it's important that the publisher agrees that their package is seeded in Ubuntu.
[19:56] <rbasak> AFAICT, Ubuntu Studio would effectively be the "publisher", and so that requirement is met by default.
[19:57] <rbasak> There is no technical difference between that, and a fork.
[19:57] <vorlon> can we agree next steps?
[19:57] <rbasak> Because if requirement B is met, Ubuntu Studio can take over at any time, just like any deb package in universe.
[19:57] <mdeslaur> ok, I don't see us resolving this any time soon, each of these points is going to require discussion.
[19:57] <vorlon> it's a good discussion, but we're obviously not converging in 3 minutes
[19:57] <mdeslaur> the only thing I think we can agree to is requirement H
[19:57] <vorlon> (and there was an AOB item?)
[19:57] <cyphermox> yes, it's actually quite simple
[19:58] <mdeslaur> unless someone objects to H
[19:58] <rbasak> No objection, but I think H needs a clearer definition
[19:58] <rbasak> (and therefore I'm not sure about it pending that definition)
[19:58] <cyphermox> could we possibly put all the different threads of discussion in bugs or something so it's easier to get back state on everything here, and see progress between meetings, rather than having to re-read ML threads, find links again from IRC logs, etc.?
[19:59] <cyphermox> it's an idea, not necessarily the exact solution
[19:59] <mdeslaur> ok, so we can't respond to the DisplayCAL issue today then.
[19:59] <rbasak> I was hoping people would use the pad for discussion
[19:59] <cyphermox> not just this particular discussion
[19:59] <mdeslaur> so let's continue working on the pad
[19:59] <rbasak> (though FWIW the pad is awful and doesn't let me punctuate)
[19:59] <vorlon> :)
[20:00] <rbasak> I'd like to give others a task please. If you don't support a particular proposed requirement, please comment and explain why, to help start the discussion there
[20:00] <vorlon> +1
[20:00] <cyphermox> aye
[20:00] <mdeslaur> everyone must spend some time in the pad this week
[20:01] <mdeslaur> ok, let's move on
[20:01] <mdeslaur> [topic] Mailing list archive
[20:02] <mdeslaur> there's the sunset backports thread, but it looks like some folks stepped up
[20:02] <mdeslaur> (I think that's what I read this week)
[20:02] <rbasak> I don't think any action is needed on that right now. It seems to be proceeding well without TB intervention and nobody has requested TB intervention to the current course of action AFAICT.
[20:02] <mdeslaur> ok
[20:03] <mdeslaur> there's rbasak's post about inconsistent password prompts in update-manager
[20:03] <mdeslaur> perhaps that should be a bug assigned to the security team?
[20:03] <rbasak> I did get the owner of ~ubuntu-backports changed to ~techboard. I assume that's uncontroversial
[20:03] <rbasak> Is it a bug?
[20:03] <rbasak> I was asking the question
[20:03] <mdeslaur> it's not a bug, that's the way it was designed
[20:04] <mdeslaur> but perhaps it should be revisited now that there are a lot more kernel updates
[20:04] <rbasak> I mean: is it something we need to change?
[20:04] <mdeslaur> when it was done that way, there were fewer kernel updates, so most updates never asked for a password
[20:04] <mdeslaur> I do agree that it's weird and should probably be changed
[20:05] <mdeslaur> or at least discussed again
[20:05] <rbasak> OK I can happily file a bug then
[20:05] <mdeslaur> IIRC, the original design was a compromise between the security team and the design team
[20:06] <mdeslaur> and there were technical limitations that prevented it from being smarter
[20:06] <mdeslaur> but perhaps it can be fixed or rethought
[20:06] <mdeslaur> I don't see anything else on the mailing list
[20:07] <mdeslaur> [topic] Community bugs
[20:07] <mdeslaur> none
[20:07] <mdeslaur> [topic] AOB
[20:07] <mdeslaur> cyphermox: wake up
[20:07] <cyphermox> ""could we possibly put all the different threads of discussion in bugs or something so it's easier to get back state on everything here, and see progress between meetings, rather than having to re-read ML threads, find links again from IRC logs, etc.?""
[20:07] <cyphermox> for action items and such
[20:08] <rbasak> That sounds like a lot of admin. Are you volunteering? :)
[20:08] <cyphermox> not really, but it would be good to have things in a central location
[20:08] <rbasak> IOW, I have no objection to tracking things in bugs, but wouldn't that just be another place you need to read to catch up?
[20:08] <cyphermox> and the wiki agenda has this lack of context
[20:08] <mdeslaur> I thought the agenda was the central location
[20:08] <rbasak> Maybe discourse posts?
[20:09] <cyphermox> that may work too
[20:09] <rbasak> More editable, wiki posts are possible, etc.
[20:09] <mdeslaur> feel free to create discourse posts and link them in the agenda
[20:09] <vorlon> I don't see the point of discourse instead of bug reports
[20:09]  * mdeslaur needs to remember where the discourse is
[20:10] <rbasak> cyphermox: honestly, I'm not sure I really understand what you're asking me to do.
[20:10] <rbasak> If you want to do something to help track things better, then I have no objection. But I assume you want me to then do something differently? What?
[20:11] <mdeslaur> I really need to leave now, so let's finish this up and cyphermox can let us know what he wants?
[20:11] <cyphermox> well, to me either we keep clearer action items so we remember from one time to the other what something was about, or people spend time to update them done as soon as they are, which I feel bugs would make quick -- if it's inprogress it's a carry over, otehrwise it's maybe done, etc.
[20:11] <mdeslaur> [topic] Next chair
[20:11] <mdeslaur> next chair cyphermox, backup rbasak
[20:12] <cyphermox> yup
[20:12] <mdeslaur> cyphermox: did you have another AOB, or was that what you were referring to earlier?
[20:12] <cyphermox> no, that's what I was referring to
[20:12] <mdeslaur> ok, cool
[20:12] <mdeslaur> #endmeeting
[20:12] <meetingology> Meeting ended at 20:12:52 UTC.  Minutes at https://new.ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2021/ubuntu-meeting.2021-08-17-19.05.moin.txt
[20:13] <mdeslaur> thanks everyone, apologies for having to leave
[20:13] <mdeslaur> I'll update the agenda tomorrow morning
[20:13]  * vorlon waves
[20:13] <vorlon> thanks
[20:14] <rbasak> Thank you!


[14:08] <amerigena> Noticed same bug with Dropbox on two 16.04 installs - broken indicator icon, no dropdown menu. Is this a known issue with Xenial, or should I try reporting a bug?
[14:10] <amerigena> I've installed using the 64-bit .deb and through aptitude.
[14:10] <amerigena> Same result
[14:10] <amerigena> Can post a screenshot if helpful
[17:29] <dkessel> flocculant: about clementine - you mean the noise it makes when playing stuff?
[17:30] <dkessel> i hadn't run clementine since upgrading to 16.04 yesterday ;)
[17:30] <dkessel> but i just tried and got some very unpleasant noise
[17:30] <flocculant> dkessel: yea - exactly that :D
[17:30] <flocculant> you want fix :p
[17:30] <dkessel> yeah?
[17:30] <dkessel> pretty please? :)
[17:31] <flocculant> install gstreamer1.0-alsa
[17:31] <flocculant> go to playback prefs
[17:31] <flocculant> set output device to the alsa output - apply
[17:32] <flocculant> bug 1537184
[17:33] <dkessel> ok thanks great :) and there is the bug i was going to ask about...
[17:33] <flocculant> https://github.com/clementine-player/Clementine/issues/5221
[17:33] <flocculant> that one too
[17:34] <flocculant> finally bug 1539700
[17:48] <Unit193> Heh, poke Rohan Garg about syncing libmygpo-qt from Debian.
[17:48] <Unit193> (clementine 1.3~rc1 is in Depwait because of it.)
[17:49] <flocculant> maybe
[17:50] <flocculant> all I know is that clementine went south when gst-plugins-base or -bad got updates
[17:50] <flocculant> can't remember which now
[17:50] <flocculant> and the problem when there are clementine problems like this is they blame ubuntu's versions of things
[17:51] <flocculant> given that clementine appears to work with the same versions of pulse etc outside of ubuntu - they appear to have a valid point
[18:03] <Unit193> flocculant: Downgrading libgstreamer-plugins-base1.0 gstreamer1.0-plugins-base gir1.2-gst-plugins-base-1.0 to wily versions fixed it.
[18:05] <flocculant> yea thought it might be something like that
[18:06] <Unit193> Looks like just downgrading gstreamer1.0-plugins-base will work, after upgrading the other still no issues.
[18:07] <Unit193> Upgrading that one breaks it, and downgrading just that fixes.  So yes, that.  Now time to see what else uses it, and if they're borked too.
[18:09] <flocculant> Unit193: not found any other music player that's borked
[18:10] <flocculant> though it seems that cd's in rhythmbox and goobox (wth that is) is broken
[18:10] <Unit193> In that case I'd say try pulling the extra lib and clem from Debian. :P
[18:11] <flocculant> well that's easy for you to say - if I start flailing about looking for debian packages I soon lose the will to live :p
[18:12] <flocculant> and immediately appearr to find clementine ...
[18:12] <flocculant> what other one - gstreamer?
[18:13] <Unit193> http://ftp.uk.debian.org/debian/pool/main/libm/libmygpo-qt/libmygpo-qt1_1.0.9~git20151122-1_amd64.deb and http://ftp.uk.debian.org/debian/pool/main/c/clementine/clementine_1.3~rc1-1_amd64.deb but meh.
[18:13] <Unit193> I'd do it, but I just purged everything again...  I may try later if you don't though.
[18:15] <flocculant> no different here with those two from debian
[18:19] <flocculant> no idea - it's just all fubar for sure
[18:20] <Unit193> OK, and pulling that gst didn't either.  Worth a shot.
[18:20] <flocculant> oh crud
[18:20] <flocculant> totally forgot about gstreamer ...
[18:22] <flocculant> ok - so the gst/gpo/clem from debian and all works as expected
[18:23] <Unit193> ...gst from experimental, eg 1.7.1-1?
[18:24] <flocculant> seems not
[18:25] <Unit193> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/buglist.cgi?product=GStreamer&component=gst-plugins-base&bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=NEEDINFO&bug_status=REOPENED&form_name=query%0A%20%20%20%20%20%20 300+ open bugs, yey.
[18:28] <flocculant> Unit193: ok with gst 1.7.1-1/clem 1.3~rc and libmygpo 1.0.9~git - still not right
[18:33] <Unit193> Yeah, that's what I saw.  Seems like it's either gst or interactions between the two.    Could try actual Debian later today.
[18:35] <flocculant> unless something happens with something ubuntu need I doubt anything would change - not seeing the point tbh - can't see they'd care about whether clementine works or not
[18:35] <flocculant> they might wake up when they realise cd's in rhythmbox are meh


[01:39] <fazer> balloons, can you check out my comment on this task? I need some help: https://codein.withgoogle.com/dashboard/task-instances/5874217581019136/?sp-page=1
[04:24] <xcub> @knome could you help me build the messaging-app? :)
[05:58]  * tsimonq2 is gone:
[11:59] <knome> xcub, sorry, i don't know anything about that :)
[13:07] <fazer> ahayzen, can you take a look at my comment on the task? I need some help.
[13:14] <ahayzen> fazer, yup will do :-)
[13:15] <fazer> thanks.
[13:18] <fazer> ahayzen, just left another comment.
[13:31] <fazer> ahayzen, I figured it out. I'm almost done with the task. I'll be submitting sometime later today.
[13:32] <ahayzen> fazer, if your looking for an example of dragging this maybe useful http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~music-app-dev/music-app/trunk/view/head:/tests/autopilot/music_app/__init__.py#L314
[13:33] <ahayzen> fazer, just start dragging close to the right side (so 80% width or something) and drag across to close to the left side (so 20% width or something)
[15:07] <nywillb> Hi, I'm working on the task "Test the WordPress theme for Ubuntu community teams (Ubuntu)," and I am not sure if I have enough bugs to submit
[15:08] <knome> nywillb, hey
[15:08] <nywillb> Hi
[15:08] <knome> nywillb, it's not about filing bugs, it's about trying different things with the theme
[15:08] <nywillb> ok
[15:08] <knome> nywillb, i'll need to try something to try to fix the navigation issue you're having
[15:08] <knome> but as i said, i don't see it myself, so it's a bit tricky
[15:08] <nywillb> ok
[15:09] <nywillb> I dont know PHP, but I can try to fix it and pull request on GitHub
[15:09] <knome> actually it'll likely need changes in the CSS
[15:09] <nywillb> Oh, good.
[15:09] <nywillb> I know CSS
[15:10] <knome> if you want to try to fix it, one thing to try is to set a specified height for the menu element
[15:10] <nywillb> ok
[15:10] <knome> another thing is playing around with the position value of certain elements
[15:10] <nywillb> ok
[15:10] <nywillb> thanks
[15:11] <knome> but i don't expect you to find a solution for that necessarily - if you do, that's of course helpful
[15:11] <nywillb> ok
[15:12] <nywillb> Should I submit the task for review?
[15:12] <knome> i haven't closely looked at your latest submissions, but you can do that
[15:13] <knome> i probably want to try some fixes for the issue before we completely close the task at least
[15:13] <nywillb> ok
[15:13] <knome> but if you are around in IRC, it's likely better do that here since we can have a live discussion and i can try many things at the same time
[15:15] <nywillb> ok
[15:32] <knome> nywillb, so wait... is the header navigation working now?
[15:32] <knome> nywillb, or do the items only appear after wrapping?
[15:38] <knome> nywillb, i committed a small change to the repository, which i don't think fixes anything, but who knows, maybe it will..
[15:38] <knome> that is, on desktop
[15:49] <nywillb> knome, It still has not fixed the issue.
[15:50] <nywillb> I think giving the navbar background a z-index of 0 and giving the menu ul a z index of 1 might make it work
[15:50] <nywillb> I will try with inspect element
[15:53] <xcub> can Alexandros Frantzis be found on IRC?
[16:59] <fazer> ahayzen, I don't think I understood you properly. Am I done, the reason the tests are failing is because of Ubuntu.Components. Or am I missing something?
[17:01] <ahayzen> fazer, do you have the API keys in the files?
[17:01] <fazer> which files?
[17:02] <ahayzen> and if not, i think there is currently a bug in the code where it imports the wrong Ubuntu.Components thing, therefore exploding autopilot :-)
[17:02] <fazer> ahayzen, which files should I check for the keys?
[17:03] <ahayzen> fazer, have a read of the 'API' section in the Readme-Developers
[17:03] <fazer> ok
[17:04] <ahayzen> fazer, but as you don't know about them, then they are probably blank, which is then probably causes those tests to fail.
[17:04] <ahayzen> I'll have a go with the branch later on my desktop and then comment if they are you/us etc
[17:05] <fazer> alright. Thanks. :)
[17:06] <fazer> ahayzen: It's empty. There isn't a key.
[17:06] <fazer> ahayzen: it tells me to obtain a personal one.
[17:07] <ahayzen> fazer, yup :-)
[17:07] <ahayzen> that's like why those tests are failing
[17:08] <fazer> SHould I get a personal one? OR should I just submit a PR and you guys test it with a key?
[17:08] <ahayzen> fazer, it should be fine to test without, we mock most of the data, it is only the searching ones that go online
[17:09] <ahayzen> as long as your test you have added is passing, it should be good. IIRC some of the others are failing at the moment anyway, which we need to sort
[17:09] <fazer> Ok, so if my test works when I run it by itself it's ok?
[17:09] <fazer> Because it doesn't work when I run the entire suite. I think the location tabs get changed in some prior test which causes them to not work in my test.
[17:10] <ahayzen> yeah should be as you haven't really been touching anything that has affecting anything else
[17:10] <ahayzen> i'd submit the MR, then we can take a look what is going on
[17:10] <fazer> ok. will do.
[17:10] <ahayzen> and it's easier to comment with the diff visible :-)
[17:26] <adueppen> darkxst: I'm going to have to request a fairly long extension on https://codein.withgoogle.com/dashboard/task-instances/5300662816473088/?sp-page=1 since I've been busy studying and I have finals all week. Sorry for the inconvenience.
[21:21] <darkxst> adueppen, extended
[21:30] <adueppen> darkxst: thanks
[22:00] <malevasquez> knome, are you around?
[22:04] <knome> malevasquez, yep
[22:08] <malevasquez> Should I just answer the questions in a comment?
[22:08] <malevasquez> The ones you wrote in the task feedback
[22:08] <knome> yes, i think that would be the best so we would have the replies recorded there
[22:08] <knome> or if you want to write longer than 1000 characters, you can do a pastebin or upload a file
[22:08] <knome> i know i'm hitting the 1000 char limitation fast..
[22:09] <malevasquez> Great! And should I resubmit another design, or are we good with the one I sent before?
[22:09] <malevasquez> Okay :)
[22:09] <knome> most importantly, i want to let you know that we aren't expecting working implementations of everything
[22:10] <knome> so don't let that limit you, rather focus on "what would be really useful"
[22:11] <malevasquez> Thanks! So I'll answer the questions and sent it in a little while
[22:11] <malevasquez> Would that be good?
[22:11] <knome> yeah, let's see if i'm fresh enough to reply today :)
[22:11] <knome> but i guess also those questions are just the start
[22:12] <knome> i could probably ask you dozens more ;)
[22:12] <malevasquez> Haha okay :)
[22:13] <malevasquez> So Ill resubmit later and you can give it a look whenever you are around
[22:13] <knome> yep, thanks
[22:13] <malevasquez> Thank you for the help, knome
[22:13] <knome> no problem, thanks for the work! :)
[23:09] <fazer> ahayzen, I made the modifications you asked for.
[23:09] <ahayzen> fazer, awesome thanks


[03:05] <_pg_> so I had working wireless on my dell mini 9 lubuntu 10.10, and the I didnt. the driver install fails hard. can anyone help? (keywords: b43, bcmwl kernel source, firemware b43 installer)
[03:06] <_pg_> its on a usb install, not a live one, and seemed to work until I updated some ssl stuff it asked to update. now it is all broken :(
[13:27] <kosaidpo> hello guys
[13:28] <kosaidpo> how in my hosts file i have this vhost site but every boot the file re-generated how can i avoid this
[13:28] <kosaidpo> thanks
[13:36] <kosaidpo> any idea guys ??
[14:13] <wolfgang> how would you change the digital clock format from 24hr to 12hr in lubuntu?
[14:15] <head_victim> wolfgang: my Lubuntu pc is in parts in the lounge at the moment so I can't confirm but http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/1029/ has a few ideas.
[14:15] <head_victim> It shows it MAY be to do with your locale, have you used normal Ubuntu and been able to change it?
[14:25] <bioterror> hahaha
[14:25] <bioterror> nobody helped :(
[14:25] <bioterror> %I:%M%p or something like that
[14:35] <head_victim> bioterror: yeah I don't have a Lubuntu up at the moment, making it hard to help out too much :/
[14:35] <head_victim> But you're right from memory I'm now recalling right click gives you the access to the internals rather than the pretty gui stuff on gnome.
[14:37] <head_victim> I have seen locales bugger that stuff up previously though so I think that's why I went for it :/
[14:40] <bioterror> :D
[15:28] <GaryD> hello all....i am in need of some help...gnome-mplayer will start to play videos, but soon after the video starts, the screen goes black. i have searched around, but can't find exactly what to do...thanks in advance for helping!
[15:33] <GaryD> ???
[17:07] <rahermosillac> hi there, anyone can help? please
[17:08] <AndrewMC> !ask | rahermosillac
[17:09] <rahermosillac> :B
[17:09] <rahermosillac> sorry
[17:11] <rahermosillac> so how can i change some keybindings?
[17:12] <AndrewMC> rahermosillac: please state your whole issue so someone may be able to help a little better
[17:14] <rahermosillac> I need to change the action of the "Prt Sc" key. By default, this key is used by scrot, so i need to change it for use by another program
[17:20] <AndrewMC> !keybinding > rahermosillac
[18:45] <bioterror> '