[10:31] <stev96> hi
[10:44] <stev96> http://ubucon.de/2013
[11:02] <stev96> lets go?
[13:01] <ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/05/22/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
[13:02] <dpm> Hey all, and welcome to the second day of Ubuntu Open Week!
[13:02] <dpm> we'll wait for a minute for people to come in and then we can get started
[13:04] <dpm> ok, let's roll
[13:04] <dpm> For the late-comers, hi again and welcome to the second day of Ubuntu Open Week
[13:05] <dpm> My name is David Planella, and I work in the Community team at Canonical as Ubuntu App Development Liaison.
[13:05] <dpm> As such, my role involves coordinating and representing Ubuntu App Development,
[13:05] <dpm> grow our developer community and act as a liaison with app authors who target our platform.
[13:06] <dpm> Today I'm going to talk about the Ubuntu Touch Core Apps project, give an overview on what it is and how it works,
[13:06] <dpm> and most importantly, on how everyone can participate
[13:06] <dpm> If you've got any questions during the session,
[13:06] <dpm> feel free to ask them any time on the #ubuntu-classroom-chat channel
[13:06] <dpm> by prepending them with QUESTION:
[13:07] <dpm> I'll also leave some time at the end of the session for Q&A
[13:07] <dpm> So let's get started, shall we? ;-)
[13:07] <dpm> # The Core Apps Project
[13:07] <dpm>
[13:07] <dpm> After the Ubuntu Phone announcement, and as part of the phone platform we sent a call to our community
[13:07] <dpm> to participate in building the core set of apps that will ship with the phone.
[13:08] <dpm> With this, we started a really exciting project that provides a fantastic opportunity for community members
[13:08] <dpm> to create software that could run on millions of handsets!
[13:08] <dpm> We had an overwhelming response to our call for participation: nearly 2000 (!) individuals
[13:08] <dpm> expressed their interest in contributing to core apps.
[13:09] <dpm> From these replies, we formed dedicated development teams around each one of the apps,
[13:09] <dpm> set up the development infrastructure around Launchpad,
[13:09] <dpm> regular meetings to track progress
[13:09] <dpm> and the communication channels to discuss development.
[13:10] <dpm> These projects have been community-driven and run in the open from day one,
[13:10] <dpm> which has made collaboration much easier.
[13:10] <dpm> In essence, each team organizes their work and time in the way that works best for them,
[13:10] <dpm> and Canonical participates providing the following resources:
[13:11] <dpm> - Development infrastructure
[13:11] <dpm> - Engineering management
[13:11] <dpm> - Community mentorship and support
[13:11] <dpm> - Design guidance
[13:11] <dpm> (that should have probably been *mentoring, not even sure if mentorship exists ;)
[13:12] <dpm> One thing to make clear is that all apps in this project will have to be reviewed and comply
[13:12] <dpm> with the Ubuntu Touch quality expectations to be part of the default image.
[13:12] <dpm> That an app is part of the Core Apps project only guarantees
[13:12] <dpm> that it will be included if it complies with the quality standards.
[13:13] <dpm> Currently, already 4 of our initial list of 12 core apps has already been included in the Ubuntu Touch images.
[13:13] <dpm> Which is really good news
[13:13] <dpm> So kudos to the Calculator, Calendar, Clock and Weather teams!
[13:13] <dpm> ok, everything clear so far? Any questions?
[13:15] <ClassBot> coolbhavi asked: is the sdk fully functional and the code is available somewhere?
[13:15] <dpm> That's a really good question
[13:15] <dpm> The SDK is fully functional
[13:16] <dpm> and in fact it has already been used to create all of these apps
[13:16] <dpm> we don't consider it as feature complete yet though, which is why we still call it the SDK alpha
[13:16] <dpm> but the Beta is coming out in July
[13:17] <dpm> and the 1.0 together with Ubuntu 13.10
[13:17] <dpm> the code is public and available on https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-ui-toolkit
[13:17] <dpm> ok, let's move on, then
[13:18] <dpm>
[13:18] <dpm> # Designing Core Apps
[13:18] <dpm>
[13:18] <dpm> At the same time, we kicked off an initiative to provide design suggestions for each one of the apps,
[13:18] <dpm> to provide guidance to the development teams
[13:18] <dpm> This was a very popular project too, with lots of exciting designs coming out of it. Check them out here:
[13:18] <dpm>     https://ubuntu.mybalsamiq.com/projects/ubuntuphonecoreapps/grid
[13:19] <dpm> The Canonical Design team are also participating in this project,
[13:19] <dpm> and providing the direction for a subset of these core apps.
[13:19] <dpm> They communicate regularly with developers to discuss designs and feedback
[13:19] <dpm> from the teams and other contributors.
[13:21] <dpm>
[13:21] <dpm> # Which Core Apps?
[13:21] <dpm>
[13:21] <dpm> The core apps project currently comprises 12 applications,
[13:21] <dpm> but this list might change slightly as we're evaluating the best set of applications to be part of the launch.
[13:21] <dpm> You can see the list of core applications in Launchpad:
[13:21] <dpm> 1.  Ubuntu Calculator App
[13:22] <dpm> 2.  Ubuntu Calendar App
[13:22] <dpm> 3.  Ubuntu Clock App
[13:22] <dpm> 4.  Ubuntu Document Viewer App
[13:22] <dpm> 5.  Ubuntu E-mail App
[13:22] <dpm> 6.  Ubuntu Facebook App
[13:22] <dpm> 7.  Ubuntu File Manager App
[13:22] <dpm> 8.  Ubuntu Music App
[13:22] <dpm> 9.  Ubuntu RSS Feed Reader App
[13:22] <dpm> 10. Ubuntu Terminal App
[13:22] <dpm> 11. Ubuntu Weather App
[13:22] <dpm> 12. Ubuntu Youtube App
[13:23] <dpm> As mentioned, these are managed and developed in Launchpad, our online collaboration tool:
[13:23] <dpm>   https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone-coreapps
[13:23] <dpm> There you'll find the links to the code and other resources for each one of the apps
[13:24] <dpm>
[13:24] <dpm> # What are System Apps?
[13:24] <dpm>
[13:24] <dpm> In parallel to the Core Apps,
[13:24] <dpm> there is a set of applications that were developed
[13:24] <dpm> by dedicated teams of Canonical Engineers as part of the first public Ubuntu Touch demo.
[13:25] <dpm> They are currently also developed in the open,
[13:25] <dpm> and the way to contribute is similar to core apps in the sense that code can be submitted for review and the roadmap is discussed in public,
[13:26] <dpm> although they are run in a different way.
[13:26] <dpm> They are outside of the scope of this session, but you can see these system apps here:
[13:26] <dpm>   https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-touch-preview
[13:27] <dpm> These are apps such as the Camera, Gallery, Web browser, Notes, etc.
[13:27] <dpm> And if you have any questions about them, just ask on #ubuntu-touch or send an e-mail to ubuntu-phone@lists(at)launchpad(dot)net
[13:27] <dpm> ok, so it seems we've got some questions:
[13:27] <ClassBot> coolbhavi asked: is there any possibility that all the social network platforms are integrated in a single app? so that it can be accessible at one touch?
[13:28] <dpm> Yes. In fact, there is such an app already: Friends
[13:28] <dpm> The good things is that it is not only an app, but it also provides a reusable library for any app to access social networks
[13:29] <dpm> Check out https://blogs.gnome.org/kenvandine/2013/03/07/introducing-friends/
[13:29] <dpm> The Facebook core app already uses the Friends library :)
[13:30] <ClassBot> sebbu asked: is there a list of formats that will be suported by the document viewer, or a way to make suggestions ?
[13:30] <dpm> You can check out the functional requirements for the doc viewer here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/CoreApps/DocViewer
[13:31] <dpm> and suggest and contribute to the support of new formats in the mailing list:
[13:31] <dpm> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-touch-coreapps/+join
[13:32] <dpm>
[13:32] <dpm> # How to get started
[13:32] <dpm>
[13:32] <dpm> Ok, so now comes the interesting bit,
[13:32] <dpm> how can you contribute to Ubuntu being in millions of mobile devices!
[13:32] <dpm> As mentioned before, the project is run in a completely open manner,
[13:33] <dpm> so the way to contribute is not much different from the way other projects part of Ubuntu are run
[13:33] <dpm>
[13:33] <dpm> ## 1. Pick an app
[13:33] <dpm>
[13:33] <dpm> The first thing you'll need to do is to pick up a core app you'd like to work on
[13:33] <dpm> You can see the list here:
[13:33] <dpm>   https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/CoreApps
[13:34] <dpm> Just click on the link for your app of choice,
[13:34] <dpm> which will take you to a page with all of the app details,
[13:34] <dpm> and further links related to all of the app's resources,
[13:35] <dpm> such as Launchpad project, team, IRC channel, blueprints, etc.
[13:35] <dpm> This should give you a good overview about the app and how and where things are run
[13:35] <dpm>
[13:35] <dpm> ## 2. Decide how you want to contribute
[13:35] <dpm>
[13:36] <dpm> The main area for contribution in this project is development,
[13:36] <dpm> but there are also many other opportunities for participation:
[13:36] <dpm> - Bug reporting
[13:36] <dpm> - Testing
[13:36] <dpm> - Translations
[13:36] <dpm> - Design suggestions
[13:37] <dpm> - etc.
[13:38] <dpm> So it's up to you to decide the best use for your skills if you're interested in being part of the project, as you see, there's a broad range of areas to contribute to!
[13:38] <dpm>
[13:38] <dpm> ## 3. Get in touch
[13:38] <dpm>
[13:38] <dpm> Regardless of the way in which you choose to contribute, you should be aware and follow the communication channels for the project
[13:39] <dpm> The important thing when working within the community is to communicate in order to collaborate effectively
[13:39] <dpm> I'd first suggest to subscribe to the mailing lists:
[13:40] <dpm> 1) The Ubuntu Phone mailing list for general discussion on getting Ubuntu running on phones and other mobile devices:
[13:40] <dpm> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone/+join
[13:41] <dpm> 2) The Ubuntu App Cats mailing list for all discussion related to the core apps project:
[13:41] <dpm> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-touch-coreapps/+join
[13:42] <dpm> Also, each one of the development teams has got weekly meetings to discuss progress and solve any blockers
[13:42] <dpm> You can see an overview of all meetings here:
[13:42] <dpm> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/CoreApps/Meetings
[13:43] <dpm> There are IRC meetings and for some core apps video hangout meetings with the Design team
[13:43] <dpm> If you're interested in participating in the development of any of those apps, I'd recommend joining the meeting
 asks: Can I see a detailed video overview anywhere with the latest updates and applications that already have?
[13:45] <dpm> Each one of the teams or other contributors generally blog about progress, including videos, on our Ubuntu App Developers Google+ community, so I'd recommend to join us to keep up to date too :)
[13:45] <dpm> https://plus.google.com/communities/111350780270925540549
[13:45] <dpm>
[13:45] <dpm> ## 4. Development guide
[13:46] <dpm>
[13:46] <dpm> If you've decided to contribute with development, here's your next stop: the Core Apps Development Guide
[13:46] <dpm>
[13:47] <dpm>   https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/CoreApps/DevelopmentGuide
[13:47] <dpm>
[13:47] <dpm> This will help you get started with setting up the development environment and submitting your first contributions
[13:48] <dpm> It is fairly easy, and it will help you especially if you are new to collaborative development with Launchpad
[13:48] <dpm> The only requirements to get started is to have installed the Ubuntu SDK
[13:49] <dpm> and to sign the Contributor Agreement, which is needed because some carriers and manufacturers require specific license agreements
[13:50] <dpm> you'll see a more detailed explanation in the guide, but in summary, signing the agreement can be done really quickly with an online form and you retain the copyright of your contributions
[13:51] <ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
[13:51] <dpm> I think that pretty much summarizes everything I wanted to cover
[13:52] <dpm> For each app, the Launchpad project link should take you to other areas of contribution, such as Translations and Bugs
[13:53] <dpm> And finally, for testing those apps that are not yet on the image, you can do it easily either on a device or on your desktop!
[13:53] <dpm> All core apps run on the desktop as well
[13:53] <dpm> You can install them from this PPA: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/CoreApps/PPA
[13:53] <dpm> Phew, we're nearly at the end. Any questions?
[13:54] <ClassBot> sebbu asked: do they run natively on the desktop or do they need some kind of emulator ?
[13:55] <dpm> No emulation needed, apps will run natively on the desktop. You'll just need to install the SDK, which I believe is taken care of by the PPA packages
[13:55] <ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
[13:56] <dpm> In any case, here's how you can install the SDK: http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/gomobile/
[13:56] <dpm> any other questions?
[13:57] <dpm> In that case, we'll wrap it up here
[13:57] <dpm> Thank you everyone for participating and for your questions. I hope you enjoyed the session and we can see your first contributions to core apps soon! :)
[13:58] <dpm> ok, seems we've got another question :)
[13:58] <ClassBot> sebbu asked: will the ppa only be available only for ubuntu, or for (some?) other distributions as well (debian, mandriva, fedora, etc...) ?
[13:59] <dpm> PPAs are a way to distribute development or testing packages that are not available in the Ubuntu archive
[13:59] <dpm> As such, PPAs are Ubuntu-specific
[13:59] <dpm> you could install the packages manually on Debian
[14:00] <dpm> but Fedora uses another packaging system
[14:00] <dpm> The SDK is also Ubuntu-specific atm
[14:00] <dpm> ok, I'll leave you in the good hands of my friend dholbach now!
[14:00] <dholbach> Thanks dpm! :-)
[14:00] <dholbach> Welcome everybody to the session about the Ubuntu Development team!
[14:01] <dholbach> My name is Daniel Holbach, I work on the Ubuntu Community team along such nice people like dpm who you got to know earlier. :)
[14:01] <ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/05/22/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
[14:01] <dholbach> I love getting questions, so please ask whatever comes up in your mind - it'd be nice if it was loosely related to Ubuntu Development though. :)
[14:01] <dholbach> and please prefix your questions with QUESTION:
[14:02] <dholbach> So during the session I'll try to give you a broad overview over how the Ubuntu Development team works, so how Ubuntu the distribution, the operating system is put together.
[14:03] <dholbach> Afterwards you won't be an Ubuntu developer (yet), but I hope you'll have at least heard of all the important moving parts and how they roughly fit together.
[14:03] <dholbach> And again: ask! If I don't make sense or things are unclear or you're curious... ask.
[14:03] <dholbach> Here we go. :)
[14:03] <dholbach> Ubuntu is made up of thousands of different components, written in many different programming languages. Every component - be it a software library, a tool or a graphical application - is available as a source package.
[14:03] <dholbach> Source packages in most cases consist of two parts: the actual source code and metadata. Metadata includes the dependencies of the package, copyright and licensing information, and instructions on how to build the package.
[14:03] <dholbach> Once this source package is compiled, the build process provides binary packages, which are the .deb files users can install.
[14:04] <dholbach> Every time a new version of an application is released, or when someone makes a change to the source code that goes into Ubuntu, the source package must be uploaded to Launchpad’s build machines to be compiled. The resulting binary packages then are distributed to the archive and its mirrors in different countries. The URLs in /etc/apt/sources.list point to an archive or mirror.
[14:04] <dholbach> Every day CD images are built for a selection of different Ubuntu flavours. Ubuntu Desktop, Ubuntu Server, Kubuntu and others specify a list of required packages that get on the CD. These CD images are then used for installation tests and provide the feedback for further release planning.
[14:04] <dholbach> Does that make sense so far? Any questions?
[14:05] <dholbach> All right, seems like we're good.
[14:05] <dholbach> Ubuntu’s development is very much dependent on the current stage of the release cycle. We release a new version of Ubuntu every six months, which is only possible because we have established strict freeze dates. With every freeze date that is reached developers are expected to make fewer, less intrusive changes
[14:06] <dholbach> If you have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SaucySalamander/ReleaseSchedule you can see the release schedule for "saucy salamander" which is going to be Ubuntu 13.10.
[14:06] <dholbach> Feature Freeze is the first big freeze date after the first half of the cycle has passed. At this stage features must be largely implemented. The rest of the cycle is supposed to be focused on fixing bugs.
[14:06] <dholbach> After that the user interface, then the documentation, the kernel, etc. are frozen, then the beta release is put out which receives a lot of testing. From the beta release onwards, only critical bugs get fixed and a release candidate release is made and if it does not contain any serious problems, it becomes the final release.
[14:07] <ClassBot> SonikkuAmerica asked: I assume "CD image" is just a generic term for a Live image, as (at least) the desktop images don't fit on CDs anymore...?
[14:07] <dholbach> SonikkuAmerica, Yes, that's correct - I should have said "image". Only saying "CD image" was never correct, as there always were DVD images as well, or images for netboot. Now we have images for tablets and phones as well.
[14:08] <dholbach> Any more questions about images or the release process?
[14:09] <dholbach> As you can see on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SaucySalamander/ReleaseSchedule still in the "green" phase. This is where almost any change can still be uploaded. The more "red" you see down the line, the harder it will be to get risky changes included.
[14:10] <dholbach> Ok, let's talk a bit about how the team communicates.
[14:10] <dholbach> Thousands of source packages, billions of lines of code, hundreds of contributors require a lot of communication and planning to maintain high standards of quality.
[14:10] <dholbach> At the beginning and during the release cycle we have the Ubuntu Developer Summits where developers and contributors come together to plan the features of the next releases.
[14:11] <dholbach> Every feature is discussed by its stakeholders and a specification is written that contains detailed information about its assumptions, implementation, the necessary changes in other places, how to test it and so on. This is all done in an open and transparent fashion, so you can participate and listen to a videocast, get involved, chat with attendants and subscribe to changes of specifications, so you are always up to date.
[14:11] <ClassBot> coolbhavi asked: with a 6 month release process, do you allocate sufficient time for testing packages and if so when?
[14:11] <dholbach> coolbhavi, good one!
[14:12] <dholbach> Yes. There are multiple ways in which put what we produce to the test.
[14:13] <dholbach> There are many testing initiatives and Nicholas Skaggs gave a session about it yesterday, which you may want to go and check out: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/05/21/%23ubuntu-classroom.html#t16:01
[14:14] <dholbach> In short though: we do a lot of automated testing on the parts of Ubuntu we write, we also do a lot of manual testing (like image testing or specific apps), and use autopkgtest as well, which is interesting because tests are run for every upload of the package or when its dependencies change.
[14:14] <dholbach> This gives us quite a good reassurance over when things might break.
[14:15] <dholbach> Any more questions about testing or the communication bits I mentioned earlier?
[14:15] <dholbach> If you are curious about what was discussed at the last UDS, you might want to check out http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/ which has links to all the sessions we held last week and what was discussed there.
[14:15] <dholbach> Not every single change can be discussed in a meeting though, particularly because Ubuntu relies on changes that are done in other projects. That is why contributors to Ubuntu constantly stay in touch. Most teams or projects use dedicated mailing lists to avoid too much unrelated noise. For more immediate coordination, developers and contributors use Internet Relay Chat (IRC). All discussions are open and public.
[14:16] <dholbach> Another important tool regarding communication is bug reports. Whenever a defect is found in a package or piece of infrastructure, a bug report is filed in Launchpad.
[14:16] <dholbach>  All information is collected in that report and its importance, status and assignee updated when necessary. This makes it an effective tool to stay on top of bugs in a package or project and organise the workload.
[14:17] <dholbach> Most of the software available through Ubuntu is not written by Ubuntu developers themselves. Most of it is written by developers of other Open Source projects and then integrated into Ubuntu.
[14:17] <dholbach> These projects are called “Upstreams”, because their source code flows into Ubuntu, where we “just” integrate it. The relationship to Upstreams is critically important to Ubuntu. It is not just code that Ubuntu gets from Upstreams, but it is also that Upstreams get users, bug reports and patches from Ubuntu (and other distributions).
[14:19] <dholbach> The most important Upstream for Ubuntu is Debian. Debian is the distribution that Ubuntu is based on and many of the design decisions regarding the packaging infrastructure are made there.
[14:19] <dholbach> Traditionally, Debian has always had dedicated maintainers for every single package or dedicated maintenance teams. In Ubuntu there are teams that have an interest in a subset of packages too, and naturally every developer has a special area of expertise, but participation (and upload rights) generally is open to everyone who demonstrates ability and willingness.
[14:19] <dholbach> Getting a change into Ubuntu as a new contributor is not as daunting as it seems and can be a very rewarding experience. It is not only about learning something new and exciting, but also about sharing the solution and solving a problem for millions of users out there.
[14:20] <ClassBot> coolbhavi asked: I read about syncing from upstream and merging from upstream. Whats the difference?
[14:20] <dholbach> coolbhavi, I wanted to get to that in just a minute. :-)
[14:20] <dholbach> But I can give a very quick answer here already.
[14:21] <dholbach> Essentially we try to work together with Upstream projects, but sometimes, for example due to different timescales or needs, we might go ahead with adding a change in Ubuntu before it's included Upstream - sometimes we also need to do it to integrate the software better into Ubuntu.
[14:22] <dholbach> In those cases we have a "delta" over Upstream. We deviated slightly.
[14:22] <dholbach> So whenever source code changes in Debian, we will have to make sure that our changes are merged in a more recent version again.
[14:23] <dholbach> "Merging" in terms of Ubuntu package maintenance means: "take new source code from Debian and integrate our changes".
[14:23] <dholbach> "Syncing" means that the changes can either be dropped or are accepted in Debian as well, so our Ubuntu-local version of the package can be overwritten.
[14:23] <ClassBot> nik90 asked: If one wants to be a maintainer of a package in Ubuntu, is it required to run the latest Ubuntu version?
[14:23] <dholbach> nik90, good one!
[14:24] <dholbach> Yes, it's a good idea to run the latest development release - and if only in a virtual machine or a separate partition or something.
[14:24] <dholbach> It's necessary, so you can test the build and test the package in the version your users are going to use it.
[14:24] <dholbach> Otherwise it's very easy to "just upload" a change and never know if it actually worked the way you intended.
[14:25] <dholbach> Or let's say you upload your app, but in the latest release some library it depends on changed and it crashes or behaves differently.
[14:26] <dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UsingDevelopmentReleases explains how to set up a development release in a sane and safe way.
[14:26] <dholbach> ... although it has become much much much more stable than in the past.
[14:26] <dholbach> In the last 3-4 releases, you could run the development release very early already and it was rock-solid.
[14:27] <ClassBot> nik90 asked: Are members of the Ubuntu Development Team involved in the coding of features or just making sure that the package is up to date with upstream?
[14:27] <dholbach> nik90, there are both
[14:27] <dholbach> There are many who work on dedicated parts of the system, depending on their interests, but there are generalists as well, who enjoy maintaining packages and keeping large parts of the archive in shape.
[14:28] <dholbach> We have need for all of them. :-)
[14:28] <ClassBot> fr33r1d3 asked: Is 13.10 "stable" already?
[14:29] <dholbach> fr33r1d3, considering that "saucy" is still only 3 weeks old, I expect a few more turbulences in its early days. I currently run it in a VM only - but everything I tested there worked just fine for me. :)
[14:30] <ClassBot> nik90 asked: which irc room do you recommend me to join if I have more questions regarding testing and packaging apps? Or are there any other way to get help?
[14:30] <dholbach> nik90, Definitely #ubuntu-motu. There are many many friendly folks in there who are happy to help out.
[14:30] <dholbach> I'm going to give a few links by the end of the session which should help you get started.
[14:30] <dholbach> Open Source Development happens in a distributed world with different goals and different areas of focus. For example there might be the case that a particular Upstream is interested in working on a new big feature while Ubuntu, because of the tight release schedule, is interested in shipping a solid version with just an additional bug fix.
[14:30] <dholbach> That is why we make use of “Distributed Development”, where code is being worked on in various branches that are merged with each other after code reviews and sufficient discussion.
[14:32] <dholbach> So as I said in my explanation to coolbhavi earlier, sometimes you have cases where an Upstream ships an 1.0 version of an app, you add an additional bug fix, Upstream in the meantime works on 1.1, which adds a lot of crazy new features, but if it's too late in our release cycle, 1.1 will have to wait for the next Ubuntu release.
[14:33] <dholbach> That's sometimes a hard decision to make, particularly if you have angry users who want "the latest and greatest", but it's often a good idea in terms of stability.
[14:34] <ClassBot> coolbhavi asked: I have already made a first upload.. is there anyone i can reach out for further help in the process?
[14:34] <dholbach> coolbhavi, I wanted to mention a few links towards the end of the session about this, but yeah - there is! :)
[14:35] <dholbach> The MOTU team is definitely the way to go. #ubuntu-motu and<EMAIL_ADDRESS>is a good place for you to get advice and help.
[14:35] <dholbach> There's also the Developer Advisory Team, who will reach out to you during your development journey at some stage - they can also be of help.
[14:36] <dholbach> To fix a bug in Ubuntu, you would first get the source code for the package, then work on the fix, document it so it is easy to understand for other developers and users, then build the package to test it.
[14:36] <dholbach>  After you have tested it, you can easily propose the change to be included in the current Ubuntu development release. A developer with upload rights will review it for you and then get it integrated into Ubuntu.
[14:36] <dholbach> These code reviews are nothing to be afraid of. The people you work with here are friendly and won't shout at you for making mistakes.
[14:37] <dholbach> Not everything is in our documentation (it'd be huge and indigestible otherwise), but you'll learn a lot about conventions and the common tricks in code reviews.
[14:37] <dholbach> That's how you slowly grow into the team.
[14:37] <ClassBot> Abunujum asked:  I'm currently learning how to make web apps, And i would like to publish some for the Software Center, but how can I package them?
[14:38] <dholbach> Abunujum, I'll give some links to documentation later on. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages is a page specifically about getting totally new packages into Ubuntu.
[14:38] <dholbach> When trying to find a solution it is usually a good idea to check with Upstream and see if the problem (or a possible solution) is known already and, if not, do your best to make the solution a concerted effort.
[14:39] <dholbach> So you can see: it's a bit of detective work and it's a lot of team work - which makes the whole experience very interesting and you'll get to know many people.
[14:39] <dholbach> When you fix bugs additional steps might involve getting the change backported to an older, still supported version of Ubuntu and forwarding it to Upstream.
[14:40] <dholbach> Any more questions? :)
[14:41] <dholbach> The most important requirements for success in Ubuntu development are: having a knack for “making things work again,” not being afraid to read documentation and ask questions, being a team player and enjoying some detective work.
[14:41] <dholbach> You don't need to know every programming language on the planet. We have quite a number of simple bugs which are simple enough to understand and resolve.
[14:41] <dholbach> And as I said earlier: Good places to ask your questions are<EMAIL_ADDRESS>and #ubuntu-motu on irc.freenode.net.
[14:41] <dholbach> You're not on your own.
[14:41] <dholbach> You will easily find a lot of new friends and people with the same passion that you have: making the world a better place by making better Open Source software.
[14:42] <ClassBot> Abunujum asked:  What programming language do recommend to use to make ubuntu software?
[14:43] <dholbach> Abunujum: that entirely depends on what you want to achieve.
[14:43] <dholbach> For example if you work on some low-level or hardware-related pieces of Ubuntu, you will very likely have to use C or C++
[14:44] <dholbach> Many applications in Ubuntu are written in Python though and with Ubuntu Touch and the Ubuntu SDK coming up, it got very interesting to use QML.
[14:44] <dholbach> If you work on existing packages and fix bugs there, you are very likely going to use whatever the software itself was written in.
[14:45] <dholbach> This is a very interesting learning experience, as you dive into existing code, try to find the issue, read some documentation and hopefully get to the point where you fix the bug. :)
[14:45] <dholbach> I personally learnt a lot this way.
[14:45] <ClassBot> fr33r1d3 asked: Describe QML in short...
[14:45] <dholbach> QML is the Qt Meta Language or Qt Modeling Language.
[14:46] <dholbach> It allows you to write apps in which you write in a declarative way how the app should look like or how it should behave.
[14:46] <dholbach> So modelling the UI becomes very easy and you don't need to worry about writing a lot of actual code.
[14:47] <dholbach> When you get to the point where you define the actual logic of your app you can then very easily tie in JavaScript, or any other language, like C++ or Python.
[14:47] <ClassBot> Abunujum asked:  I would also like to know, Is it possible to develop ubuntu touch applications using python
[14:48] <dholbach> Yes, it is. Although you might want to do some investigation in the beginning to find out if using Python won't have a negative impact in terms of startup time or memory consumption. The people in the #ubuntu-touch channel should be able to give you a good idea. It will also depend on what exactly you want to achieve.
[14:48] <ClassBot> fr33r1d3 asked: I read at the UDS that they want to start tell people to not use Quickly anymore.. Is it safe to still use it or?
[14:49] <dholbach> fr33r1d3, Yes, it's still safe to use it. If you start a fresh project, you might want to investigate though if the Ubuntu SDK with Qt Creator doesn't give you a better experience.
[14:50] <dholbach> Oh and coming back to the earlier question about QML and how to use it - http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/gomobile/ has a really nice tutorial for getting started.
[14:50] <dholbach> It should also show you the beauty of how easily apps can be written.
[14:50] <ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
[14:51] <dholbach> So to re-cap a bit on what I said earlier... if you're interested on working on Ubuntu itself and making it work great - be sure to check out and bookmark http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/
[14:51] <dholbach> the title of the webpage is a bit misleading - it's not only about packaging, but it's more about developing Ubuntu itself
[14:52] <dholbach> you'll learn about packaging, about our release processes, about how our infrastructure works and everything else
[14:52] <dholbach> the guide is currently available in English, Spanish, Russian and Brazilian Portuguese
[14:52] <dholbach> We are also always looking for people who can help us translating it. https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-packaging-guide/ should make that very easy.
[14:53] <dholbach> So if you speak a language other than English, try to help out a little bit - many upcoming developers will appreciate it.
[14:54] <dholbach> Any more questions?
[14:55] <ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
[14:56] <dholbach> So to illustrate, that we have simple bugs which can be fixed, you can take a look at https://code.launchpad.net/~fourdollars/software-properties/fix-1138121-a-typo-in-CountryInformation.py/+merge/151870 for example.
[14:57] <dholbach> Down at the bottom you can see the "diff".
[14:57] <dholbach> The green lines indicate lines which were added, red lines indicate code which was removed.
[14:58] <dholbach> So apart from the bits in debian/changelog, there's only one line which changed, essentially "common-name" was changed to "common_name". This fixed a bug in Ubuntu. :)
[14:58] <dholbach> Sometimes it takes a little bit to get there and find out what exactly it's broken.
[14:58] <dholbach> Still, it's worth it - you're going to make millions of Ubuntu users happier. :)
[14:58] <dholbach> So go and bookmark http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/ and you won't be disappointed on the journey. :)
[14:59] <dholbach> Thanks a lot everyone for your questions!
[14:59] <dholbach> Next up is jsalisbury who is going to give you an introduction to the Ubuntu Kernel Team!
[14:59] <jsalisbury> dholbach, o/
[15:00] <jsalisbury> Hi All, My name is Joe Salisbury, I am the kernel defect analyst for the Kernel Team at Canonical
[15:00] <jsalisbury> Today, I'll be talking about kernel bug triage, the different Importance and Status fields for a bug and some typical debugging tasks commonly requested when triaging a bug.
[15:01]  * jsalisbury thanks the bot
[15:01] <ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/05/22/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
[15:01] <jsalisbury> Questions should be asked on the #ubuntu-classroom-chat channel. If you want to ask a question, write it there, and precede it with 'QUESTION:'. For example:
[15:01] <jsalisbury> QUESTION: What is an Upstream kernel?
[15:02] <jsalisbury> First, for details about the Ubuntu kernel, the top level Kernel wiki page can be found at:
[15:02] <jsalisbury> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel
[15:02] <jsalisbury> There is also a page dedicated to kernel bug triage, which can be found at:
[15:02] <jsalisbury> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/BugTriage
[15:03] <jsalisbury> The kernel bug triage page is a great place to start if interested in learning more about triaging kernel bugs.
[15:04] <jsalisbury> Bug triage is a great place to start to learn about the kernel.
[15:04] <jsalisbury> Triaging kernel bugs provides a way to learn about a variety of kernel sub systems
[15:05] <jsalisbury> The Ubuntu Linux Kernel has quite a large number for bugs opened against it.  Close to 5000 as of today.  A full list of bugs can be seen at:
[15:05] <jsalisbury> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux
[15:05] <jsalisbury> I generally focus on triaging and escalating bugs opened against the current development kernel, which is currently Saucy.
[15:05] <jsalisbury> That's not to say there is no focus on the stable kernels.
[15:06] <jsalisbury> Each and every kernel bug reported should be triaged, which could be against the current development kernel or any of the prior supported stable kernels.
[15:08] <jsalisbury> The priority with the development kernel is to identify bugs and hit them hard and fast, so we can fix as many issues as possible, before release.
[15:08] <jsalisbury> On the other hand, stable kernel bugs can take longer to fix.  This is because a patch for a bug must go through the Stable Release Update process:
[15:08] <jsalisbury> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/StableHandbook/StableProcess
[15:09] <jsalisbury> Details on stable kernels can be found here:
[15:09] <jsalisbury> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/Handbook/Stable
[15:09] <jsalisbury> To assist with the large number of kernel bugs reported, the kernel team has developed bug 'Bots' to review each new bug, and ensure all the required apport logs are attached.
[15:10] <jsalisbury> If all the information is there the bug Status is changed from 'New' to 'Confirmed'.  If the bug is missing the apport logs, the bug Status is set to 'Incomplete' and a request for the logs is posted to the bug.
[15:10] <jsalisbury> After the bot sets the bug to 'Confirmed', the bug is reviewed.  Based on the bug description, I will see if the bug is similar to recent bugs and may be a duplicate.
[15:11] <jsalisbury> I will also determine what kernel subsystem the bug affects.  The bug might be specific to USB, wifi, graphics, suspend/resume, etc.
[15:12] <jsalisbury> I will ask subsystem specific questions to collect that specific data.
[15:12] <jsalisbury> The following wiki has some pages on specific debugging by subsystem:
[15:12] <jsalisbury> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/Debugging
[15:13] <jsalisbury> Once a bug has all the needed information, I will usually ask that the latest Mainline kernel is tested and then set the bug to Incomplete, until the testing is done.  The latest Mainline kernel is the kernel that is currently being developed upstream, and is considered Linus' tree.
[15:14] <jsalisbury> The reason for testing this kernel is to see if the bug is already fixed upstream.  If it is, usually the current Ubuntu devlelopmt kernel will get this fix when it is rebased to the latest Mainline kernel.
[15:15] <jsalisbury> Testing the Mainline kernel will also tell us if the bug exists upstream.  If the bug does exist upstream, we like to ask the Bug Reporter to open a bug with upstream, so the issue is known to the upstream Developers as well.
[15:16] <ClassBot> Nova__ asked: How we can contribute to Kernel team ?
[15:16] <ClassBot> sebbu asked: if there is so many bugs, does that means that it doesn't work well ?
[15:16] <jsalisbury> There is a wiki that describes how to report a bug upstream here:
[15:16] <jsalisbury> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Upstream/kernel
[15:17] <jsalisbury> We also ask for testing of the Mainline kernel when a bug is reported against a stable kernel.  For the same reason it will tell us if the bug is already fixed.
[15:17] <jsalisbury> However, just because a bug is fixed upstream, doesn't mean a stable kernel will ever get that fix.
[15:18] <jsalisbury> Depending on the bug, we may also ask for testing of the latest upstream stable kernel.
[15:18] <jsalisbury> For example, Precise is based on the 3.2 kernel.  Currently Precise has all the upstream updates up to 3.2.39
[15:18] <jsalisbury> However, the latest upstream 3.2 stable kernel is 3.2.45.  Eventually Precise will get the 3.2.45 updates, so it is beneficial to know if the bug is already fixed there.
[15:19] <jsalisbury> If it is, we usually just need to wait until the bug is fixed when the release gets those upstream updates.
[15:20] <jsalisbury> As mentioned earlier, there may be a case when a bug is fixed in Mainline, but is not fixed in the latest upstream stable kernel for a release.
[15:20] <ClassBot> niagr asked: How can we learn about the working of the kernel?
[15:21] <jsalisbury> niagr, The best way is to review some of the kernel wiki pages.
[15:21] <jsalisbury> niagr, the top level Ubuntu kernel wiki page is at:
[15:21] <jsalisbury> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel
[15:22] <jsalisbury> niagr, there are topics on bug triage, like I'm talking about now, testing, and kernel development as well
[15:22] <jsalisbury> niagr, there are many other resources around the Internet as well.
[15:24] <jsalisbury> So there may be a case when a bug is fixed in Mainline, but is not fixed in the latest upstream stable kernel for a release.
[15:24] <jsalisbury> This can happen when a patch is submitted upstream, but does not include the Cc to the upstream stable kernel.
[15:24] <jsalisbury> If this is the case, I will perform what is called a "Reverse" kernel bisect.  This debugging process is used to identify a patch upstream that fixes a specific bug.
[15:25] <jsalisbury> Before going down the debugging of a specific type of bug, lets step back to the bug triage flow.
[15:25] <jsalisbury> First a bot checks for the apport logs, then the bug is reviewed and a request is made to test the latest Mainline kernel.
[15:26] <jsalisbury> The next thing we need to know is if this bug is a regression or not.
[15:26] <jsalisbury> It a bug is not a regression, it has all the apport logs, and testing of the Mainline kernel does not fix the bug, the bug status is set to "Triaged".
[15:27] <jsalisbury> If the bug is a regression, we can perform a kernel bisect to identify the commit that introduced the bug.
[15:27] <jsalisbury> The steps to perform a bisect can be found at:
[15:27] <jsalisbury> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/KernelBisection
[15:28] <jsalisbury> The entire details of a kernel bisect can take some time, so it may be best for another session at some point.  But I'll give a summary.
[15:29] <jsalisbury> Basically we first need to identify the last kernel version that did not have the bug and the first kernel version that did have the bug.
[15:30] <jsalisbury> Once we have these two versions, We provide these two version numbers into git bisect.  Git then tells us a kernel commit that is about halfway between these two versions.
[15:30] <jsalisbury> Using this information, I build a test kernel up to this commit and ask the bug reporter to test it.
[15:31] <jsalisbury> Based on the test results, I tell git whether or not the kernel exhibited the bug.
[15:32] <jsalisbury> Git will then spit out the next commit id(SHA1), which is again half way in between the last good and first bad commit.
[15:32] <jsalisbury> I then build another test kernel, ask for it to be tested, and feed the result back into git.
[15:33] <jsalisbury> Eventually this process will yield the SHA1 of the patch that introduced the regression.
[15:34] <jsalisbury> Then next step is determined after reviewing the details of the patch that introduced the regression.
[15:35] <jsalisbury> The bug can be fixed by creating a new patch.  The patch that introduced the regression can be reverted and/or upstream will be contacted to get it fixed upstream as well.
[15:36] <jsalisbury> Like I mentioned earlier there is also a "Reverse" bisect.  A reverse bisect is used to identify a commit that fixes a bug.
[15:37] <jsalisbury> This is basically the same process as a standard bisect, but git is told the opposite of the testing results.
[15:38] <jsalisbury> Eventually though the same process, git will report the SHA1 of the patch that fixes the bug.
[15:38] <jsalisbury> Depending on the patch, the fix will then be cherry-picked or backported and an SRU request submitted.
[15:39] <jsalisbury> Where or not a bisect or reverse bisect is performed, depends on the bug.
[15:40] <jsalisbury> Usually the priority of the bug and/or the number of people affected will decide.
[15:41] <jsalisbury> Since I talked about it, if you want to learn more details about git, there is a wiki page at:
[15:41] <jsalisbury> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Git
[15:42] <jsalisbury> To track bugs, the kernel team created a variety of reports, which can be found at:
[15:42] <jsalisbury> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/kernel-bugs/reports/index.html
[15:42] <jsalisbury> There is a report for all the supported stable releases, CVE's, bugs that are fixed upstream and a "Hot List".
[15:43] <jsalisbury> The "Hot List" or Priority bug list is used to track important bugs and get them on the kernel developers radar.
[15:44] <jsalisbury> About 15 minutes left in this session.
[15:44] <jsalisbury> That was a real quick overview of kernel bug triage.
[15:45] <jsalisbury> At this point, I'd like to open it up and see if there are and questions.
[15:47] <jsalisbury> Ok.  If anyone does think of any questions at some point, I'm usually available on the Freenode channel #ubuntu-kernel
[15:47] <jsalisbury> Again, if your interested in getting involved in kernel bug triage, the best place to start is by reviewing the wiki:
[15:47] <jsalisbury> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/BugTriage
[15:48] <jsalisbury> Thanks everyone for attending.
[15:49] <jsalisbury> Looks like sabdfl is up next with: Ask Mark!
[15:50] <ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
[15:55] <ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
[16:01] <ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/05/22/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
[16:02] <sabdfl> hi folks, how are you all?
[16:02] <sabdfl> philipballew, hi, thanks for marshalling the questions, ready when you are!
[16:03] <sabdfl> apparently philip will be along shortly
[16:04] <philipballew> sabdfl, alright, lets start here in just a sec.
[16:04] <sabdfl> meanwhile, if you folks would like to pop questions in the ClassBot queue, i can ... aha, hi philip
[16:04] <philipballew> So welcome everyone to the session, here we can ask Mark ( sabdfl ) questions about Ubuntu the time is about to start.
[16:05] <philipballew> Just a reminder, do not ask  for techinical support questions or such, since Mark will probably not have that machine, and also, just tell you to go to Ask Ubuntu anyway...
[16:05] <philipballew> Alright, lets ask away!
[16:06] <sabdfl> i do have a Dell XPS 13, and happy to answer questions about that ;)
[16:06] <ClassBot> nik90 asked: It is awesome to have a preview of Unity 8 in 13.10!  However is it wise to use Unity 8 for the first time on a LTS release?
[16:07] <sabdfl> nik90, good question. the current plan is to stretch for unity8 in 14.04 LTS, but we are confident we can have unity7 running there just fine
[16:07] <sabdfl> we already support unity7 and it's getting faster and cleaner as we go
[16:07] <ClassBot> Nova__ asked: Can we switch between Unity8 and Mir and Unity 7 in 13.10 in Login screen?
[16:07] <sabdfl> we do want to unify some of the underlying layers, but i'm confident we can take the right decision closer to the time with more evidence on where the pieces came out
[16:07] <philipballew> actually Nova__  might wanna try Ask Ubuntu for that
[16:08] <sabdfl> what would be very welcome is to have folks who are excited about unity8 getting familiar with the code and connecting the dots from tablet to desktop
[16:08] <sabdfl> right now, our focus is very much the phone and tablet
[16:08] <sabdfl> but we'd welcome patches that start to integrate desktop capabilities ahead of schedule
[16:08] <sabdfl> next!
[16:08] <sabdfl> Nova__, yes, should be able to
[16:09] <sabdfl> next!
[16:09] <ClassBot> SonikkuAmerica asked: Through Ubuntu IRC channels, I've gotten the impression that Unity 8 is just "a Qt frontend for GNOME." Could you discuss (without giving anyway anything meant to be kept secret) how Unity 8 is truly supposed to function? (I mean I'm getting the impression that the next Unity isn't what it was intended for and such)
[16:09] <sabdfl> with the work that's going into phone and mobile we're rapidly building a great community around a new portfolio of apps
[16:10] <sabdfl> those apps will all stretch from phone to desktop (and tv ;)
[16:10] <sabdfl> we would like to attract developers from a wide range of backgrounds, including GNOME and KDE
[16:11] <sabdfl> and make it easy for them to deliver amazing experiences on unity
[16:11] <sabdfl> we're not going to get into an ideological fight, and we think developers should choose
[16:11] <sabdfl> those new apps are all in Qt, but i'd love to see a version of the GIMP which sings on the phone and tablet
[16:11] <sabdfl> and we've built a lot of foundations to support that
[16:11] <sabdfl> but we can't do the work for every app, and we won't fight with an upstream over where they want to be relevant
[16:12] <sabdfl> we're seeing amazing commitments from games companies and others who have done well on IOS and Android
[16:12] <sabdfl> but i'd like to bring as much of the FLOSS ecosystem along with us too
[16:12] <sabdfl> everyone's welcome
[16:12] <sabdfl> next!
[16:12] <ClassBot> FlyingPig asked: Have you got an Ubuntu phone? :-)
[16:12] <sabdfl> i do, and the team is focused on getting some key pieces DONE so you can reasonably use it as a regular phone
[16:13] <sabdfl> things like contact import and sync, not installing sample data, working 3G and 4G on targeted devices etc
[16:13] <sabdfl> did you see the Bing and Google Maps performance video yesterday?
[16:13] <sabdfl> pretty cool stuff
[16:13] <sabdfl> so, very shortly i expect the hardcore can carry ubuntu as a daily driver
[16:13] <sabdfl> and we'll grow from there
[16:14] <sabdfl> next!
[16:14] <ClassBot> eliasps asked: What are so far the intensions from NVIDIA and AMD to support Mir? Have they expressed any informal views on that matter? If support for only one of the future x-server technologies (Mir or Wayland) is chosen, will any of these two be able to use the other's binary blob, or is there too much spec difference?
[16:14] <sabdfl> eliasps, too soon to tell, but history suggests that open source communities are prone to hystrionics up front and pragmatism in the long term ;)
[16:15] <sabdfl> so the hystrionics were unsurprising and a pragmatic result would be equally unsurprising
[16:15] <sabdfl> the decisionmaking in Mir was solid: Wayland did not meet our needs or yours, we chose to invest in something, and we chose to do it in a very quality-driven way
[16:16] <sabdfl> i find it bizarre to be criticised for writing open source software, and writing it with quality and performance in mind from the start
[16:16] <sabdfl> and much of the mud that was flung was unjustified
[16:16] <sabdfl> but that's the hystrionics part, it will happen again I'm sure :)
[16:16] <sabdfl> anyhow, Mir is pretty fantastic already - crisp, clean, fast, focused
[16:16] <sabdfl> next!
[16:18] <sabdfl> NikTh asked: With Unity's new version re-written in QML, how do GNOME's development and decisions affect it? Is there a plan for Unity to become less dependent on Gnome, if not on a library level, at least on a core apps (eg. nautilus  gnome-terminal etc.) level?
[16:18] <ClassBot> NikTh asked: Older (x_86 only) machines are already facing major performance issues when using Unity with LLVMPIPE technology. Is there a point to continue shipping x_86 versions of the default Ubuntu desktop for future releases, especially if there is going to be any increase on system requirements ? Wouldn't it be better if this would be left to handle by Ubuntu flavors using a non-accelerated DE ? Is there going to be an increase on sys
[16:18] <sabdfl> we'll work as closely with both GNOME and KDE as we can
[16:18] <sabdfl> we have both great relationships and terrible relationships in both cases
[16:19] <sabdfl> there are individuals in GNOME and in KDE that are, respectively, either fantastic or impossible to work with
[16:19] <sabdfl> so disregard any bland statements about how 'KDE' and 'Canonical' engage
[16:20] <sabdfl> because, as always, it boils  down to figuring out who wants to work together, and who doesn't
[16:20] <sabdfl> we will do great stuff with both
[16:20] <sabdfl> and hopefully, act as a central anchor for common standards
[16:20] <sabdfl> like we did with indicators, with KDE
[16:20] <sabdfl> it's difficult to disregard mudslinging, but if you can't, it becomes impossible to imagine getting anything done together
[16:21] <sabdfl> as for your question on performance
[16:21] <sabdfl> Mir will make it much easier to have really fast performance across the board
[16:21] <sabdfl> as will unity8
[16:21] <sabdfl> with unity7 we wanted to try to deliver a 3D experience - layers and blurs - that was impractical. with unity8, it will be tighter
[16:21] <sabdfl> and therefor, faster
[16:22] <sabdfl> next!
[16:22] <ClassBot> eliasps asked: Has there been any intention on any of the major (Dell, Lenovo, HP) manufacturers to increase availability and model range of Ubuntu-preinstalled laptops in Europe? Is there a time frame on this?
[16:22] <sabdfl> eliasps, well, if you've been watching, in the last six months you've seen quite a lot of new models from HP, Asus, Dell etc in Europe, and elsewhere
[16:23] <sabdfl> that will I expect continue
[16:23] <sabdfl> next!
[16:23] <ClassBot> energichen asked: When mysterious chip supplier will be revealed, it was promised after MWC, but long time passed since then and no info about that?
[16:24] <sabdfl> energichen, we have a preference to announce things in the most impactful way possible
[16:24] <sabdfl> and it isn't the right time to announce that, here :)
[16:24] <sabdfl> but well spotted, it's an important step, and i'm very happy that we have made good progress on the silicon front
[16:24] <sabdfl> next!
[16:24] <ClassBot> PaulW2U asked: Mark, I'm a Kubuntu and Lubuntu user and until recently a Xubuntu user. How do i fit into Canonical's long term plans?
[16:25] <sabdfl> PaulW2U, i hope we continue to strengthen our relationships in the broader ubuntu tent, and add more options too
[16:26] <sabdfl> i love that all of those options exist and invest a good deal to make it possible
[16:26] <sabdfl> there is work to be done - every cycle, meshing all these gears takes work
[16:26] <sabdfl> but we certainly don't take decisions to exclude elements of our own community
[16:27] <sabdfl> it's often a nice headline -grabbing hypothesis for a blogger, but there's no substance to it
[16:27] <sabdfl> at a bare minimum, you will always be able to run any X environment on Ubuntu
[16:27] <sabdfl> we've gone to a lot of effort to retain that
[16:28] <sabdfl> now, if a particular person or upstream wants to refuse the ability to engage, that would be weird, but it would be their brand of weird, not mine
[16:28] <sabdfl> so anyway, of all the options you listed, i see no reason why they would cease to exist
[16:29] <sabdfl> and plenty that they could get faster, smoother, better, by continuing to ride the ubuntu train
[16:29] <sabdfl> next!
[16:29] <ClassBot> d0od asked: Canonical will be Computex next month with Ubuntu Touch for phones and tablets. Will Ubuntu TV also feature? Is Ubuntu TV still 'in active development'?
[16:29] <sabdfl> d0od, aspects of the TV are in active development, but the heart of our team is focused on the phone
[16:30] <sabdfl> we did enough of the TV to prove our design core, and then we've put in place a thread of investment on some background pieces that are needed, to do with TV standards
[16:30] <sabdfl> when we want to connect those pieces, or when someone else steps up, it will happen
[16:30] <sabdfl> but being great on the phone is the most important thing
[16:30] <sabdfl> the volumes are there, and developers are there
[16:30] <sabdfl> next!
[16:31] <ClassBot> IdleOne asked: Now that UDS has gone virtual you haven't given keynote speeches in the last two vUDS. For some of us that was a highlight of the week. How come?
[16:31] <sabdfl> i'm stumped.
[16:31] <sabdfl> will do it next time. thanks!
[16:32] <sabdfl> i guess i always thought of UDS as being about the core sessions, where we map out options and take decision
[16:32] <sabdfl> s
[16:32] <sabdfl> and the keynote has mainly been about setting the scene
[16:32] <sabdfl> but you're absolutely right
[16:33] <sabdfl> and maybe i can do a retro-active one for this last one
[16:33] <sabdfl> i really like the vUDS thing
[16:33] <sabdfl> what a great example of the sky NOT falling in after all :)
[16:33] <sabdfl> much better the second time
[16:33] <sabdfl> sort of like... unity ;)
[16:33] <sabdfl> next!
[16:33] <ClassBot> fr33r1d3 asked: Are you only using Ubuntu, or are you having some other OS on some computer too?
[16:34] <sabdfl> i have Windows VMs, and IOS and MacOS devices in the house
[16:34] <sabdfl> next!
[16:34] <ClassBot> FlyingPig asked: What do you think about systemd? Will Ubuntu continue to use Upstart or eventually switch to systemd?
[16:34] <sabdfl> i think we will continue with Upstart, though i'm watching the Debian discussion closely
[16:35] <sabdfl> here's how i look at it
[16:35] <sabdfl> first, this is by definition a critical piece of infrastructure, so having a clean architecture is important
[16:35] <sabdfl> the upstart architecture is very clean, it does one thing VERY well, and it does it in a way that is very good for dynamic environments, like cloud servers and mobile devices
[16:36] <sabdfl> i think the authors of systemd are taking substantial risks by pushing so much stuff into systemd. we can continue to use those bits (look at the packaging in 13.10) with upstart
[16:37] <sabdfl> but i'm glad we don't have a monolithic init, because i think upstart is proven, flexible fast, stable, and tested
[16:37] <sabdfl> there are very little benefits to be had: it's simply not true that one will end up booting even 10% faster than the other, for example
[16:38] <sabdfl> and upstart is MUCH better for a crowdsourced platform, like Ubuntu or Debian, because it's event-driven, the pieces declare what they need, and Upstart solves the interactions
[16:38] <sabdfl> so, you drop in the event relationships you want to maintain, and upstart figures out how to achieve that
[16:38] <sabdfl> that's much more maintainable in a loosely-coupled world
[16:38] <sabdfl> and makes for more share-able pieces
[16:39] <sabdfl> second, it's not a decision that we have to take soon
[16:39] <sabdfl> upstart has proven itself, and is continuing to get even better
[16:39] <sabdfl> user sessions in upstart are AMAZING
[16:39] <sabdfl> check out some of the demos and youtube videos
[16:39] <sabdfl> very flexible and powerful
[16:39] <sabdfl> and *shareable*
[16:39] <sabdfl> because of the event-driven model
[16:40] <sabdfl> so, all of that leads me to 'meh, let the smart guys decide'
[16:40] <sabdfl> and the guys who are advocates of Upstart are really smart, they are also independent - they didn't write it
[16:40] <sabdfl> they just studied it, thought about it, and applied their experience
[16:40] <sabdfl> next!
[16:40] <ClassBot> Nova__ asked: What will be use for ubuntu web browser which we can see on ubuntu touch, Webkit Or Blink (Google Fork) ?   and also is there any hope we can see ubuntu web brwoser on desktop in 14.04 or 14.10 ?
[16:41] <sabdfl> we will definitely choose Webkit or Blink, but I don't know which we will choose :)
[16:41] <sabdfl> and yes, the mobile browser will be on the desktop too, but probably not as a default browser
[16:41] <sabdfl> rather, as the heart of our web apps
[16:41] <sabdfl> next!
[16:42] <ClassBot> FlyingPig asked: Will the core apps replace their current GNOME counterparts as soon as they are convergent? (at least the filebrowser, please!)
[16:42] <sabdfl> we'll choose the BEST apps for each piece
[16:42] <sabdfl> it's tempting to choose your own, but generally i want the team + community to think carefully and choose wisely
[16:42] <sabdfl> and collaborate where possible and welcome
[16:42] <sabdfl> next!
[16:43] <ClassBot> d0od asked: Back in 2011 you announced the (since oft cited) goal of having 200 million Ubuntu users by 2015. Are your expectations wrt to Ubuntu Touch uptake part of this, or do you have a separate goal for Touch?
[16:43] <sabdfl> yes, that is only achievable with mobile
[16:43] <sabdfl> hence the focus on the phone :)
[16:43] <sabdfl> next!
[16:43] <ClassBot> fr33r1d3 asked: Your opinion on Windows 8?
[16:44] <sabdfl> bold choices, right vision, stumbled at the gate but the race is just beginning
[16:44] <sabdfl> change is hard
[16:44] <sabdfl> the vision of convergence is the right one
[16:44] <sabdfl> so i respect microsoft for seeing that and focusing on that
[16:45] <sabdfl> but they stumbled with the actual release
[16:45] <sabdfl> i think they left their actual desktop too much in the past (Win 7.5) and the pushed their tablet too much to the foreground (tiles with a mouse)
[16:46] <sabdfl> but they are smart and hungry and being an underdog is wonderfully motivating
[16:46] <sabdfl> for example
[16:46] <sabdfl> they are doing a very impressive job on being an open cloud
[16:46] <sabdfl> azure has been transformed from PAAS into IAAS, and in many regards, damn-good-IAAS too
[16:46] <sabdfl> sorry to disappoint the prejudiced :)
[16:46] <sabdfl> next!
[16:47] <ClassBot> NikTh asked: Is in your future plans to create an Ubuntu certification similar to Linux+ and/or LPI (available to Europe) ?
[16:47] <sabdfl> this is a bit of a chicken and egg one
[16:47] <sabdfl> we tried a cert program
[16:48] <sabdfl> but it didn't work - companies can figure out very quickly if someone knows ubuntu
[16:48] <sabdfl> so even though ubuntu has rocketed up the charts in terms of use
[16:48] <sabdfl> http://w3techs.com/technologies/history_details/os-linux
[16:48] <sabdfl> there isn't much demand for a certification program
[16:49] <sabdfl> i'd be happy to help someone set that up if they think we just screwed up the execution of it :)
[16:49] <sabdfl> next!
[16:49] <ClassBot> SonikkuAmerica asked: With the advent of 14.04 convergence, will there be a service (hopefully a FOSS one) that one can connect all their devices with? (Possibly expanding Ubuntu One...?)
[16:50] <sabdfl> SonikkuAmerica, Ubuntu One is the answer, i think, together with some sort of USB sync for phone-pc
[16:50] <sabdfl> but i don't have much more for you, i'm afraid
[16:50] <sabdfl> next!
[16:51] <ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
[16:51] <sabdfl> hey amber
[16:51] <philipballew> alright, we have a few minutes left, so remember to ask questions while you still can!
[16:51] <sabdfl> have you guys tried a recent build of Ubuntu Touch?
[16:51] <sabdfl> am loving the pace of development
[16:52] <ClassBot> FlyingPig asked: Are there any plans to extending/adding new features to launchpad/bazaar or are those technologies in "maintenance-only" mode?
[16:52] <sabdfl> and glad to see the apps coming along
[16:52] <philipballew> good build yes!
[16:52] <sabdfl> FlyingPig, tools are supporting us pretty well atm, there is ongoing work but our focus now is cloud and phone so it's all hands on deck for those
[16:53] <sabdfl> next!
[16:53] <ClassBot> jsjgruber-l99-p asked: When in the ongoing processes will you know "Ubuntu is going to make it on the phone"?
[16:53]  * sabdfl goes to phablet-flash to check out the new power management... ;)
[16:54] <sabdfl> jsjgruber-l99-p, that's straightforwardly a question of market adoption
[16:54] <sabdfl> we have a nice % of PC shipments, and growing
[16:54] <sabdfl> can we achieve the same in the phone, in a year?
[16:54] <sabdfl> i think so, based on conversations so far
[16:54] <sabdfl> but we'll know for sure in 2014
[16:54] <sabdfl> what is very encouraging at the moment is the interest from top tier app developers
[16:55] <sabdfl> it is an easy port for them from Android / BB10
[16:55] <sabdfl> and a lot of their developers use Ubuntu
[16:55] <sabdfl> so... why not :)
[16:55] <sabdfl> next!
[16:55] <ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
[16:56] <ClassBot> d0od asked: Some suggest that Touch is Canonical's 'last roll of the dice'; the last chance to try and get profitable. The cutbacks on release support cycles and axing the physical UDS seemed to reinforce this idea for some. How committed in the long-term is Canonical to making Touch a success, and supporting its other projects (cloud, desktop, etc)?
[16:56] <sabdfl> perfeclty committed, d0od
[16:56] <sabdfl> perfectly, even
[16:57] <sabdfl> we have great design, great engineering, and are engaging with industry
[16:57] <sabdfl> we could do more, but at diminishing marginal returns
[16:57] <sabdfl> it is a stretch to do both
[16:57] <sabdfl> i would like ubuntu to be more than just a developer desktop
[16:57] <sabdfl> but we will always be that, regardless
[16:57] <sabdfl> to be more, we have to lead, and that's hard
[16:58] <sabdfl> nevertheless, looking around the world, i don't see others who could potentially do so, putting in nearly the same level of effort
[16:58] <sabdfl> so i would very much like to see that pay off, because this might be a once in a lifetime chance to break out of the cycle of platforms controlled by giants
[16:59] <sabdfl> and i think it's worth taking that gap
[16:59] <sabdfl> and appreciate all the support we get from likeminded, passionate, smart people
[16:59] <sabdfl> so, ubuntu is a success as a developer desktop
[16:59] <sabdfl> which supports our needs on the cloud just fine
[16:59] <sabdfl> going further - to lead something like a convergent client worldwide - is a project worth doing
[17:00] <sabdfl> dontcha think?
[17:00] <sabdfl> thank you all!
[17:00] <sabdfl> thanks especially to philipballew and JoseAntonioR
[17:00] <philipballew> We try our best!
[17:00] <sabdfl> you make OW brilliant :)
[17:00] <sabdfl> see you around
[17:01] <ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/05/22/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
[17:02] <akgraner> Welcome to the Ubuntu Newsletter Session and thank you for joining this session or if you are hanging around after the “Ask Mark” Session thank you as well.
[17:03] <akgraner> I’ll give it just a another minute...
[17:03] <akgraner> Please let me know if I am going to fast or is I am boring you to tears and we'll discuss :-P
[17:04] <akgraner> So what are the Objectives for this session?
[17:04] <akgraner> From this session you will learn what the Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter is?  Who makes up the Ubuntu News Team as well as how you can help.
[17:04] <akgraner> So what is the Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter?
[17:05] <akgraner> CollectionUbuntu News from around the community and around the world to bring readers a weekly dose of Ubuntu articles.
[17:06] <akgraner> I want to pause an let you think about the dedication it takes to produce this WEEKLY - so next time you read an issue take a moment to thank those who have contributed, and I hope that some of you will be adding your name to that list as well.  Remember it's a great way to get started with contribution, too.
[17:07] <akgraner> Who makes up the news team?
[17:07] <akgraner> The Ubuntu News Team is an all volunteer that maintains the “official” news sources for Ubuntu. You can find the list of contributors to each issue in the contributors session of each newsletter.
[17:07] <akgraner> Elizabeth Krumbach Joseph (pleia2) - is the current leader of this team (MANY MANY THANKS) and she is mentoring the very capable José Antonio Rey (JoseeAntonioR) and others.
[17:07] <akgraner> If I tried to list everyone I would leave people out, but pleia2 and JoseeAntonioR are the ones who publish UWN once all the news is in.
[17:08] <akgraner> Of course there are others who help as well and many thanks go out to all those who help.  Speaking of helping...
[17:08] <akgraner> What are the ways you can get involved and help create UWN?
[17:09] <akgraner> Link Collectors
[17:09] <akgraner> Summary Writers
[17:09] <akgraner> Stats Collector
[17:09] <akgraner> Editors
[17:09] <akgraner> Releaser
[17:09] <akgraner> Now lets take a look at each of these roles:
[17:10] <akgraner> Link Collectors
[17:10] <akgraner> Collect links and add to
[17:10] <akgraner> https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AdKZelXU8Y2LZGNrcHRkYmhfODlkODNxNnRnZA&hl=en
[17:10] <akgraner> These can and should  be collected throughout the week.
[17:10] <akgraner> Each section of the newsletter and what goes into those sections can be seen by view the raw text version on the the issue template
[17:10] <akgraner> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/IssueTemplate?action=raw
[17:11] <akgraner> If you want to help collect links but are sure where to start looking then check out the Link suggestions page at:
[17:11] <akgraner> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/LinkSuggestions
[17:11] <akgraner> Any questions about Link Collectors?
[17:12] <akgraner> Summary Writers
[17:12] <akgraner> This is where you can write summaries for the links which were collected.  Don’t worry we have editors who will fix summaries as well, and the more you do the better you get at it.  Have fun!
[17:12] <akgraner> Stats Collector
[17:12] <akgraner> Runs a series of scripts and visits sites to collect statistics.
[17:12] <akgraner> Again see raw text of IssueTemplate for section details at:
[17:12] <akgraner> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/IssueTemplate?action=raw
[17:13] <akgraner> Editors
[17:14] <akgraner> Go through newsletter to add finishing pieces and check for spelling and grammar errors.
[17:14] <akgraner> Details for this process can be found at:
[17:14] <akgraner> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/EditingPolicies/HowToEdit Steps 7-9
[17:14] <akgraner> Releaser
[17:14] <akgraner> Actually releases the newsletter via wiki, email, IRC, etc
[17:15] <akgraner> Details for this process can be found at:
[17:15] <akgraner> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/EditingPolicies/HowToEdit Steps 11-20
[17:15] <akgraner> Then rotates and preps the newsletter template on wiki between releases
[17:15] <akgraner> Details for this process can be found at:
[17:15] <akgraner> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/EditingPolicies/HowToEdit Steps 1-3 and 21-24
[17:15] <akgraner> So there is the process and "jobs" that need to be done weekly by the team.
[17:16] <akgraner> Any questions, comments, feedback on content etc?
[17:17] <akgraner> No? Ok great.
[17:17] <akgraner> Where can I find out more information about UWN?
[17:17] <akgraner> Ubuntu News Homepage - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter
[17:18] <akgraner> Information on the current issue and the work in progress can be found at:
[17:18] <akgraner> Latest Issue - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue317
[17:19] <akgraner> Upcoming Issue - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue318
[17:19] <akgraner> Prep Doc
[17:19] <akgraner> https://docs.google.com/document/d/18ZbtFHQq6uMj7iuRLd11VH8V5Uc_FA0IfgiRUcbMbQk/edit#
[17:20] <akgraner> Link Suggestion Page - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/LinkSuggestions
[17:20] <akgraner> Style Guidelines - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/StyleGuidelines
[17:20] <akgraner> Archives - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Archive
[17:21] <akgraner> Now that you see how easy and organized we are  I hope you're asking yourself "How can I join?"
[17:21] <akgraner> The team collaborates largely on IRC in #ubuntu-news on irc.freenode.net.
[17:21] <akgraner> If you'd like to be a summary writer, subscribe to ubuntu-news-team mailing list and contact the editors at<EMAIL_ADDRESS>to get your name on a list of summary writers who are emailed weekly.
[17:22] <akgraner> If you'd like to be an editor, subscribe to ubuntu-news-team mailing list and contact the editors at<EMAIL_ADDRESS>to get your name on a list of editors who are emailed weekly.
[17:22] <akgraner> easy peasy!
[17:22] <akgraner> The workflow looks like this
[17:22] <akgraner> Contributors collaborate on the Google Document to collect links from the week. Anyone may add links here, but please do not delete any.
[17:23] <akgraner> On Friday and Saturday these links are reviewed and reorganized, some may be deleted if there are too many or there are content issues.
[17:23] <akgraner> Over the weekend, summary writers are contacted. If you'd like to be a summary writer, subscribe to ubuntu-news-team mailing list and contact the editors at<EMAIL_ADDRESS>to get your name on a list of summary writers who are emailed weekly.
[17:23] <akgraner> Sunday night and Monday morning editors are contacted to review the near-complete document. If you'd like to be an editor, subscribe to ubuntu-news-team mailing list and contact the editors at<EMAIL_ADDRESS>to get your name on a list of editors who are emailed weekly.
[17:23] <akgraner> Monday morning Ubuntu Stats are added
[17:24] <akgraner> Monday evening the newsletter is released.
[17:24] <akgraner> The full process for publishing the Ubuntu Weekly News is defined here: UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/EditingPolicies/HowToEdit
[17:24] <akgraner> There you have all you ever thought you might want to know about UWN and how you can help :-)
[17:25] <akgraner> Are there any questions?
[17:26] <akgraner> Thank you again for joining this session, for your questions and I hope that we will see some new faces/IRC nicks joining us on the news team!
[17:50] <ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
[17:55] <ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
[18:00] <ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/05/22/%23ubuntu-classroom.html


[03:23] <forehand> I'm having trouble understanding what or how to set the gateway for a dhcp server.
[19:53] <Guest42468> hello


[01:10] <tomreyn> xu-irc0w: hey, you were reporting the code injection on xubuntu.org, right?
[01:10] <xu-irc0w> yessir
[01:10] <tomreyn> can you repeat this in #ubuntu-devel?
[01:10] <xu-irc0w> sure thing
[01:11] <tomreyn> ideally adding which browser you're using and version
[01:12] <krytarik> That would be more like #canonical-sysadmin then though, please.
[01:12] <tomreyn> https://sitecheck.sucuri.net/results/xubuntu.org has it detected again, too
[01:14] <xu-irc0w> yeah, that link is more concise than my reporting it
[12:42] <q5812> /print


[16:59] <mgedmin> the hostname of my VPS switched from what I set it to (via hostnamectl and vi /etc/hosts) back to vps123456 during the upgrade from 18.04 to 20.04
[16:59] <mgedmin> I'm pretty sure cloud-init did it
[17:00] <mgedmin> what's the right way to undo this?
[17:00] <mgedmin> I've never used cloud-init before (at least not knowingly)
[17:00] <mgedmin> AFAIU I ought to create a /etc/cloud/cloud.cfg.d/99_local.cfg with hostname: myhostname.example.com
[17:00] <mgedmin> and then run something?  service cloud-init restart?
[17:02] <mgedmin> seems to've worked
[17:02] <mgedmin> but wow /etc/hosts is a mess
[23:16] <jayjo_> The ubuntu server docs seem to indicate that autoinstall in 20.04 LTS is for VM installations (https://ubuntu.com/server/docs/install/autoinstall-quickstart). Is there a way to automate an installation from a USB drive?
[23:32] <jayjo_> Should I prefer the debian 'preseed' methods? I use ubuntu in public clouds, I've never tried to automate installation on my own machines
[23:34] <sarnold> jayjo_: the preseedable images won't be available for future releases
[23:35] <sarnold> (and even though they were built for 20.04, I don't think they received any testing at all; they were a side effect of the build process and were released as an untested 'hopefully helpful' kind of thing, I think)
[23:37] <sarnold> jayjo_: don't think anything on that autoinstall quickstart guide is too specific to VMs -- just that kvm line. You can add the same 'autoinstall ds=nocloud-net;s=http://something/' line to the kernel command line during the normal server bootup, no?
[23:57] <jayjo_> the quickstart guide sets up a python server on a LAN machine that can serve the cloud-init data. Can that configuration be on the USB drive, either on another partition, or can I modify the bootable part of the drive?
[23:57] <jayjo_> Do you mean adding via https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/KernelBootParameters?


[06:30] <chaoticg33k> hello?
[06:33] <chaoticg33k> anyone around?
[06:36] <heno> Does the server CD have a live CD option, with a command prompt?
[06:36] <chaoticg33k> no
[06:37] <heno> Just the d-i installer?
[06:37] <chaoticg33k> if you want something like that you can try out slax, I can't remember the site right off hand but if you go to google.com/linux and search for slax then you could find Slax: Server Edition
[06:37] <chaoticg33k> what is d-i?
[06:37] <heno> Thanks
[06:37] <heno> debian-installer
[06:37] <chaoticg33k> no problem
[06:38] <heno> the blue one :)
[06:38] <chaoticg33k> ahhh yes kinda
[06:38] <chaoticg33k> on 6.06 it had a few extra things that you could do and a special lil install screen, to choose server, LAMP, and some other options
[06:38] <jsgotangco> hey heno how's it going
[06:39] <chaoticg33k> its crazy in #ubuntu
[06:39] <Burgwork> heno: the  live cd is build differently than the server and alternate cds
[06:39] <heno> jsgotangco: good, working on Feisty access features :)
[06:40] <heno> A live prompt would let blind users run it with speakup
[06:40] <jsgotangco> its in the kernel???
[06:40] <heno> d-i is rumored to support install with speakup, but I haven't seen it yet
[06:40] <heno> jsgotangco: yes
[06:41] <heno> afk
[06:41] <chaoticg33k> bbq
[06:41] <chaoticg33k> so, I got a question, how do you guys make partitions for ubuntu server?
[06:42] <jsgotangco> i don't
[06:42] <jsgotangco> lvm ;)
[06:43] <chaoticg33k> I mean like a / is 2GB, /usr 10, /home 20, etc. How do you make them?
[06:44] <chaoticg33k> I've got this project I want to do and I want to do some smart partitioning so I can make the most out of a 40GB drive I've got.
[06:45] <chaoticg33k> My project is where I take the functionality of Google Personlized homepage and recreate that minus the email. I will then add music player to it and load up my music on the server its about 5gb.
[06:46] <chaoticg33k> So it will serve out pages to people who login that have RSS feeds, news, updates, music, calander, and I can upload webpages to it to let people see the webstie I created. Its gonna be a family type webpage for the parents.
[06:47] <chaoticg33k> I've been reading where you can have like a 500meg root partition with /boot, /var, /usr, and /home all seperate, and I was wondering if this was possible
[06:48] <chaoticg33k> I get the feeling I'm talking to myself
[07:08] <chaoticg33k> hello?


[01:05] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted linux-signed-azure [amd64] (disco-proposed) [5.0.0-1017.18]
[01:07] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted linux-signed-azure [amd64] (bionic-proposed) [5.0.0-1017.18~18.04.1]
[07:02] <cpaelzer> Laney: bug 1840633 tries to resist to be reproduced outside of autopkgtest-infra build-needed step :-/
[07:03] <cpaelzer> Laney: there are again a bunch of hanging tests that could be killed, but I'd need to ask you to again "run a few commands"
[07:04] <cpaelzer> This time I'd ask if you could fetch the debug symbols from the PPA which is tested https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/ubuntu/3790/+packages and then get a gdb backtrace (or an apport reports or what you prefer) of the hanging iptables process?
[07:05] <cpaelzer> I feel bad for asking you, but lacking any alternative way to trigger it that would be the next step that I see available to understand what is going on
[07:29] <RikMills> Morning. If an AA has a few secs, could these 2 removal get done. Thanks LP: #1840744 #1840743
[07:29] <RikMills> LP: #1840743
[07:58] <Locutusofborg> hello release team! src:hy is not an arch:all package, and removed python-hy package... can anybody please NBS-cleanup-proposed it?
[08:17] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: colord [s390x] (eoan-proposed/main) [1.4.4-1~ubuntu1] (desktop-core, ubuntu-server)
[08:17] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: colord [i386] (eoan-proposed/main) [1.4.4-1~ubuntu1] (desktop-core, ubuntu-server)
[08:18] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: colord [ppc64el] (eoan-proposed/main) [1.4.4-1~ubuntu1] (desktop-core, ubuntu-server)
[08:22] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: colord [amd64] (eoan-proposed/main) [1.4.4-1~ubuntu1] (desktop-core, ubuntu-server)
[08:22] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: colord [arm64] (eoan-proposed/main) [1.4.4-1~ubuntu1] (desktop-core, ubuntu-server)
[08:22] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: colord [armhf] (eoan-proposed/main) [1.4.4-1~ubuntu1] (desktop-core, ubuntu-server)
[08:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted colord [amd64] (eoan-proposed) [1.4.4-1~ubuntu1]
[08:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted colord [armhf] (eoan-proposed) [1.4.4-1~ubuntu1]
[08:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted colord [ppc64el] (eoan-proposed) [1.4.4-1~ubuntu1]
[08:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted colord [arm64] (eoan-proposed) [1.4.4-1~ubuntu1]
[08:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted colord [s390x] (eoan-proposed) [1.4.4-1~ubuntu1]
[08:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted colord [i386] (eoan-proposed) [1.4.4-1~ubuntu1]
[08:30] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted snapd [source] (disco-proposed) [2.40+19.04]
[08:30] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted snapd [source] (bionic-proposed) [2.40+18.04]
[08:31] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted snapd [source] (xenial-proposed) [2.40]
[09:01] <cpaelzer> Laney: and in addition to the gdb request of 2h ago, since it hangs on creating a new chain like "iptables -N ufw-tmpsuffix" it would be great if you could also run "iptables -L" and check if any other new "iptables -N ufw-tmpsuffix" will hang as well
[09:01] <cpaelzer> if it does hang maybe an strace -ff of such a hanging iptables would be helpful as well
[09:03] <Laney> cpaelzer: be with you in a bit
[11:24] <RikMills> another Qt4/KDE4 removal if possible LP: #1840762
[11:25] <RikMills> nice
[11:28] <tjaalton> RikMills: what's up with kservice tests?
[11:32] <RikMills> tjaalton: looking...
[11:37] <RikMills> tjaalton: looks like a regression in upstream code/tests that failed on KDE CI but wasn't fixed by the last release. There is a fix I will try applying. if that doesn't work we can the then current version to be badtested until the next release
[11:37] <RikMills> *then ask
[11:44] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: libio-socket-ssl-perl (bionic-security/main) [2.060-3~ubuntu18.04.1 => 2.060-3~ubuntu18.04.1] (core) (sync)
[11:44] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: openssl (bionic-security/main) [1.1.1-1ubuntu2.1~18.04.4 => 1.1.1-1ubuntu2.1~18.04.4] (core) (sync)
[11:44] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: python2.7 (bionic-security/main) [2.7.15-4ubuntu4~18.04 => 2.7.15-4ubuntu4~18.04] (core) (sync)
[11:44] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: python3.7 (bionic-security/universe) [3.7.3-2~18.04.1 => 3.7.3-2~18.04.1] (no packageset) (sync)
[11:44] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: ruby-openssl (bionic-security/universe) [2.0.9-0ubuntu1 => 2.0.9-0ubuntu1] (no packageset) (sync)
[11:44] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: libwww-perl (bionic-security/main) [6.31-1ubuntu0.1 => 6.31-1ubuntu0.1] (core) (sync)
[11:44] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: python3.6 (bionic-security/main) [3.6.8-1~18.04.1 => 3.6.8-1~18.04.1] (core) (sync)
[11:44] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: ruby2.5 (bionic-security/main) [2.5.1-1ubuntu1.5 => 2.5.1-1ubuntu1.5] (kubuntu, ubuntu-desktop, ubuntu-server) (sync)
[11:44] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: python-cryptography (bionic-security/main) [2.1.4-1ubuntu1.3 => 2.1.4-1ubuntu1.3] (core) (sync)
[11:44] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: r-cran-openssl (bionic-security/universe) [1.0.1-1ubuntu1.1 => 1.0.1-1ubuntu1.1] (no packageset) (sync)
[11:46] <tjaalton> RikMills: ok, cool
[12:06] <mdeslaur> can someone please approve those? ^ they are the openssl syncs to bionic-security
[12:06] <mdeslaur> s/can/could/
[12:25] <mdeslaur> oh, actually, looks like I can do it, so never mind
[12:25] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted libio-socket-ssl-perl [sync] (bionic-security) [2.060-3~ubuntu18.04.1]
[12:25] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted openssl [sync] (bionic-security) [1.1.1-1ubuntu2.1~18.04.4]
[12:25] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted python2.7 [sync] (bionic-security) [2.7.15-4ubuntu4~18.04]
[12:25] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted python3.7 [sync] (bionic-security) [3.7.3-2~18.04.1]
[12:25] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted ruby-openssl [sync] (bionic-security) [2.0.9-0ubuntu1]
[12:25] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted libwww-perl [sync] (bionic-security) [6.31-1ubuntu0.1]
[12:25] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted python3.6 [sync] (bionic-security) [3.6.8-1~18.04.1]
[12:25] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted ruby2.5 [sync] (bionic-security) [2.5.1-1ubuntu1.5]
[12:25] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted python-cryptography [sync] (bionic-security) [2.1.4-1ubuntu1.3]
[12:25] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted r-cran-openssl [sync] (bionic-security) [1.0.1-1ubuntu1.1]
[12:50] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: update-manager (xenial-proposed/main) [1:16.04.15 => 1:16.04.16] (core)
[13:36] <Laney> seb128: moving hint question here, looks like onioncircuit could be skipped and ubuntu-release-upgrader retried? (done)
[13:37] <seb128> Laney, better channel, indeed, thx
[13:38] <seb128> Laney, onioncircuit test depends on python-dogtail that got replaced by python3-dogtail (but the tests need more work with python3, I reported to Debian for now)
[13:40] <Laney> k, but it looks like we should have not called that a regression anyway
[13:40] <Laney> http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/o/onioncircuits/eoan/amd64
[13:45] <Laney> cpaelzer__: oops, sorry, I forgot to come back to you
[13:45] <Laney> but good news, I've made that thing happen in Canonistack
[13:46] <Laney> https://paste.fedoraproject.org/paste/nR6WtTr-HFpMhycWyDCY2w
[13:47] <Laney> it hung at "Test get_netfilter_capabilities() ...", that's the right place right?
[13:48] <Laney> I did build an adt image, hmm, hopefully you can use that
[14:02] <Laney> going to blacklist ufw for now I think
[14:15] <cpaelzer__> Laney: yes that is the right function
[14:15] <Laney> cpaelzer__: sorry I ctrl-ced it by mistake, but did you want to try my command?
[14:16] <cpaelzer__> yeah I'll try to run it
[14:16] <cpaelzer__> replacing with my canonistack creds of course
[14:16] <Laney> yes
[14:16] <Laney> I tried to "share" that adt image I used with you, I think the command to accept that is "openstack image set --accept e9f6a83f-5712-4f03-b655-fa06e1960352"
[14:17] <Laney> then it should show up in "openstack image list"
[14:18] <cpaelzer__> Could not find resource e9f6a83f-5712-4f03-b655-fa06e1960352
[14:18] <cpaelzer__> never had to do anything with openstack image sharing oO
[14:18] <Laney> try again
[14:18] <Laney> if not tell me your $OS_PROJECT_NAME, it appears not to validate that
[14:18] <Laney> ...
[14:19] <cpaelzer__> still no available
[14:19] <cpaelzer__> project is "paelzer_project"
[14:19] <Laney> ah I had prepended a c
[14:19] <Laney> ok now
[14:20] <cpaelzer__> still saying it that it can't find it
[14:20] <Laney> wtf
[14:20] <Laney> one second
[14:21] <cpaelzer__> I'm logging into the dashboard as well, in case there is something the console won't show/allow me
[14:21] <Laney> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/VMdptD6hCk/
[14:21] <Laney> maybe there's some latency before you can accept?
[14:22] <cpaelzer__> it is not in my image list (not even as pending)
[14:22] <cpaelzer__> lets give it 10 minutes in case it needs to copy to a pool or so
[14:23] <Laney> shouldn't be until you accept it I don't think
[14:25] <cpaelzer__> in the dashboard I can select "shared with project" but that view is empty as well
[14:25] <cpaelzer__> still not available to be accepted
[14:25] <Laney> dunno
[14:25] <Laney> sorry :(
[14:25] <Laney> maybe you can wrangle create-nova-image-new-release yourself
[14:25] <Laney> or ask IS if they can do it
[14:25] <Laney> it -> make the share work
[14:27] <cpaelzer> Laney: I guess you did "openstack image set --shared e9f6a83f-5712-4f03-b655-fa06e1960352" right?
[14:27] <cpaelzer> and ".. add project ..."
[14:27] <Laney> right
[14:27] <cpaelzer> pending is documented as "until I accept it"
[14:27] <Laney> that's why it shows up in the pending list of shares (my pastebin)
[14:29] <cpaelzer> I'll ask in #is internally
[14:30] <Laney> if an admin just wants to make it public temporarily as a workaround they can
[14:30] <Laney> (mortals don't have permissions for that)
[14:40] <gpiccoli> vorlon, sorry to annoy, I have a MP for badtest in makedumpfile; it may block the release for eaon before the freeze if not approved. Can you take a look?
[14:40] <gpiccoli> https://code.launchpad.net/~gpiccoli/britney/hints-ubuntu/+merge/371479
[14:43] <lordcirth> Did the root-on-ZFS installer option make it into 19.10? I don't see it in the daily ISO
[14:52] <cpaelzer> Laney: I guess the nova script is the one from https://salsa.debian.org/ci-team/autopkgtest/blob/master/ssh-setup/nova ?
[14:53] <cpaelzer> well I have autopkgtest checked out anyway
[14:53] <Laney> cpaelzer: yeah
[14:53] <cpaelzer> using whatever I have locally atm
[14:54] <Laney> I have a checkout, not sure if/where the package puts that
[14:54] <cpaelzer> error: argument <subcommand>: invalid choice: 'network-show'
[14:54] <cpaelzer> I might need to update my autopkgtest checkout ...
[14:55] <cpaelzer> Laney: are you on master or some tag?
[14:55] <cpaelzer> hmm, there are not mcuh differences to that script
[14:56] <Laney> hmm, hang on, I might have a local hack to that
[14:56] <Laney> I was playing with it a while ago
[14:56] <Laney> cpaelzer: -        OUT=$(nova network-show $NET_ID)
[14:56] <Laney> +        OUT=$(openstack network show $NET_ID)
[14:56] <cpaelzer> Laney: http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/sNpBTKfwHt/
[14:56] <cpaelzer> ah ok
[14:56] <cpaelzer> trying that
[14:56] <Laney> should send that upstream but I'd need to check it works on trusty
[14:57] <cpaelzer> should I exchange all the other nova commands with openstack as well?
[14:57] <Laney> wouldn't bother, if it works - that's the only diff I have
[14:57] <Laney> (for a patch for upstream I would though)
[14:58] <cpaelzer> Now it is: http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/gnVxWXkq5w/
[15:00] <Laney> O_O
[15:01] <cpaelzer> If you don't know I can throw in some more debug tomorrow
[15:02] <cpaelzer> it is the nva script that breaks, and scripts are easy to debug
[15:02] <cpaelzer> Laney: just to check - if it works I have an instacne up that I can login with my key right?
[15:02] <Laney> yeah
[15:03] <Laney> you should be able to 'set -x' in the nova script
[15:03] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: sane-backends (disco-proposed/main) [1.0.27-3.2ubuntu1 => 1.0.27-3.2ubuntu1.1] (desktop-core, ubuntu-server)
[15:03] <Laney> but autopkgtest buffers the output so don't be alarmed if you don't get anything immediately
[15:03] <Laney> ah, one thing - autopkgtest gets grumpy if the instance doesn't have your locale
[15:04] <Laney> best to run in C.UTF-8
[15:04] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: sane-backends (bionic-proposed/main) [1.0.27-1~experimental3ubuntu2.1 => 1.0.27-1~experimental3ubuntu2.2] (desktop-core, ubuntu-server)
[15:04] <Locutusofborg> Laney, we have a lot of "neutral" -> "fail" stuff in proposed pocket... would you mind badtesting in case I give you a list?
[15:04] <cpaelzer> you mean when starting autopkgtest with the ssh runner I should be in C.UTF-8 locally ?
[15:05] <Laney> yeah
[15:05] <cpaelzer> ok, thanks
[15:05] <Laney> I think you would have an explicit error about that though
[15:05] <Laney> IIRC
[15:05] <Laney> so it might not be this problem
[15:07] <xnox> apw:  please force-badtest linux-oem-osp1 for any version, into eoan hints. It is a copy-up v5 kernel targetting bionic toolchain, and it FTBFS in eoan now and blocking proposed migration. Thus it seems to me that we shouldn't care about rebuild test for it, in eoan.
[15:08] <xnox> (~= oracle kernels, although that FTBFS was kind-of-ish real and affected generic kernels too and was fixed by patching source code)
[15:12] <Laney> cpaelzer: I could presumably just ssh-import-id you on an instance I run too
[15:12] <cpaelzer> Laney: if that is allowed I'm fine with that as well
[15:12] <Laney> don't see why not
[15:12] <cpaelzer> I want/need to debug the broken case in the only environment where it breaks without consuming too mcuh of your time
[15:13] <Laney> I can just set it running and then come back in a few minutes once it gets to the broken bit
[15:13] <cpaelzer> great
[15:14] <cpaelzer> I'm EOD anyway, leave me a login and I'll work on it tomorrow
[15:14] <Laney> ok
[15:14] <Laney> see you
[15:37] <Laney> cpaelzer: ssh<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[15:37] <Laney> hope it doesn't time out
[15:52] <vorlon> gpiccoli: merged, thanks
[15:52] <gpiccoli> thank you vorlon =)
[15:52] <gpiccoli> slashd, cascardo ^
[15:58] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted openldap [source] (disco-proposed) [2.4.47+dfsg-3ubuntu2.2]
[16:01] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted openldap [source] (bionic-proposed) [2.4.45+dfsg-1ubuntu1.4]
[16:05] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted openldap [source] (xenial-proposed) [2.4.42+dfsg-2ubuntu3.7]
[16:19] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted uw-imap [source] (disco-proposed) [8:2007f~dfsg-5ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>]
[16:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted uw-imap [source] (bionic-proposed) [8:2007f~dfsg-5ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>]
[16:34] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted gce-compute-image-packages [source] (disco-proposed) [20190801-0ubuntu1~19.04.0]
[16:46] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted gce-compute-image-packages [source] (bionic-proposed) [20190801-0ubuntu1~18.04.0]
[16:48] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted gce-compute-image-packages [source] (xenial-proposed) [20190801-0ubuntu1~16.04.0]
[16:51] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: lttng-modules (bionic-proposed/universe) [2.10.5-1ubuntu1.2 => 2.10.5-1ubuntu1.3] (no packageset)
[16:53] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted amd64-microcode [source] (disco-proposed) [3.20181128.1ubuntu1.1]
[18:19] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted stress-ng [source] (bionic-proposed) [0.09.25-1ubuntu3]
[18:29] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted nova [source] (bionic-proposed) [2:17.0.11-0ubuntu1]
[18:36] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted opencryptoki [source] (bionic-proposed) [3.9.0+dfsg-0ubuntu1.2]
[18:47] <cpaelzer> Laney: thanks - login works
[18:48] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted psmisc [source] (xenial-proposed) [22.21-2.1ubuntu0.1]
[18:55] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted snapd-glib [source] (xenial-proposed) [1.49-0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>]
[19:15] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted lttng-modules [source] (bionic-proposed) [2.10.5-1ubuntu1.3]
[19:27] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: python-networkx [amd64] (eoan-proposed/main) [2.2-1ubuntu2] (ubuntu-server)
[19:33] <bdmurray> RAOF: Are you coming to the SRU team meeting?
[19:47] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New sync: llvm-toolchain-9 (eoan-proposed/primary) [1:9~+rc2-1~exp1]
[20:28] <RikMills> LP: #1840743
[20:29] <RikMills> LP: #1840744
[20:29] <RikMills> LP: #1840762
[20:30] <RikMills> is anyone could process those, many thanks :)
[20:30] <RikMills> *if
[21:36] <RAOF> bdmurray: ah, crap. Sorry.
[21:40] <bdmurray> RAOF: no big deal, I only asked since you'd responded yes
[21:40] <RAOF> Yeah, I do intend to come.
[21:41] <RAOF> But: (a) I need to set a better reminder, and (b) remember to cancel when I'm sick 😀
[21:47] <vorlon> RikMills: generally no reason to file a separate bug in Ubuntu for a package being removed from Debian
[23:01] <bdmurray> mwhudson: Did you do any testing of partman-base for bug 1828558 like requested in comment #10?
[23:08] <mwhudson> bdmurray: no
[23:08] <mwhudson> bdmurray: i can easily enough though