[00:23] <jelmer> maxb: welcome to ~bzr :-)
[00:24] <maxb> Thanks :-)
[00:24] <maxb> I vaguely recall some "how to package for the PPA" documentation somewhere?
[00:26] <lifeless> oh hai there
[00:44] <maxb> ah, Martin has sent me the link
[01:05] <poolie> hi maxb
[01:05] <maxb> hi
[01:05] <poolie> i might have had the wrong name about /staging
[01:05] <poolie> or perhaps we only talked of it and didn't actually create it yet
[01:06] <maxb> I guess that gary was intending to use the beta ppa as a staging area just because it already exists, and isn't currently occupied by later versions
[01:06] <poolie> it was 2.1-proposed i was thinking of
[01:06] <poolie> so how about if we create a 2.2-proposed in ~bzr?
[01:06] <maxb> well, I'd be in favour of a non-versioned name, either proposed or staging
[01:06] <poolie> ok, so ~bzr/proposed?
[01:06] <maxb> sounds good to me
[01:07] <poolie> that's roughly consistent with the meaning of proposed in ubuntu, aiui
[01:07] <poolie> (it may already be checked for consistency but it's close)
[01:07] <maxb> close enough, yes
[01:09] <poolie> ok i'll create that
[01:10] <maxb> Do you know if there is any standard regarding packaging branches for the plugins?
[01:11] <poolie> i don't think it's entirely standardized, but it would be good to make it so
[01:11] <poolie> and/or document what is done now, into that document
[01:11] <poolie> also we should look at moving the packaging branch names on lp into the package branch namespace, ie
[01:11] <poolie> lp:ubuntu/hardy/bzr/bzr-ppa
[01:12] <maxb> That would make them more obvious, yes
[01:15] <poolie> biab
[01:16]  * maxb sets a dependency of bzr/proposed -> bzr/ppa
[01:43] <lifeless> maxb: are you aware of add-apt-archive (IIRC) - adds dependent ppas automatically
[01:51] <poolie> i didn't know it did that
[01:51] <lifeless> it should, if it doesn't I have a version I wrote that does
[01:51] <poolie> maxb in some ways we shouldn't have that dependency
[01:52] <poolie> we'll get better testing without it
[01:52] <poolie> if we first copy everything into the proposed ppa
[01:52] <lifeless> anyhow, for clrity, I'm neither for or against
[01:52] <lifeless> just adding data to the mix
[02:09] <maxb> lifeless: Interesting data point, but we can't rely on everyone adding the PPA doing so via add-apt-archive
[02:10] <poolie> i agree, but what conclusion do you draw from that?
[02:12] <maxb> option 1 is to build our own subvertpy and dulwich. option 2 is to have jelmer or people he adds to ~subvertpy and ~dulwich build the packages in those PPAs, and copy them into the ~bzr ppas
[02:13] <maxb> based on jelmer's response, we pick option 1
[02:18] <maxb> Oh!
[02:18] <maxb> I've just realized the conversation was about * maxb sets a dependency of bzr/proposed -> bzr/ppa
[02:19] <maxb> Whereas I was interpreting it as being a response to my email
[02:21] <maxb> It seems that the lucid version of add-apt-repository does *not* chase PPA build-dependency links
[02:21] <poolie> no, it doesn't
[02:23] <maxb> the changelog of the maverick version doesn't mention anything like that either
[02:25] <poolie> i don't think it should
[02:25] <poolie> and there's probably no easy way for it to do this
[02:25] <poolie> on the whole i think we should copy those packages into our ppa
[02:25] <poolie> i don't think add-apt-archive exists on old ubuntus
[02:26] <poolie> and people are likely to have the habit of just configuring things manually
[02:26] <poolie> which will give them dependency errors
[02:26] <poolie> it may also make it a little easier to check consistency when we promote things from proposed to released
[02:26] <poolie> we might want a dependency on testtools and subunit too
[02:26] <poolie> i wonder if you can script the copying through an api?
[02:27] <poolie> would be nice
[02:31] <maxb> poolie: Yes, you can. I have a script which I use to promote completed builds from mercurial-ppa/staging-foo to mercurial-ppa/foo
[02:47]  * maxb removes dependency of bzr/proposed -> bzr/ppa again, since I think I'm convinced that's reasonable
[02:49] <poolie> ok updating the backport branches now
[02:50] <poolie> hm so our packaging-dapper, at least, is not related to the current maverick packaging branch...
[02:52]  * maxb has copied python-testtools into bzr/proposed
[02:53] <maxb> (for hardy - karmic)
[02:53] <maxb> Is dapper still worth the effort?
[03:20] <poolie> maybe not
[03:20] <poolie> it uses a different python packaging system so it's going to be a bit annoying
[03:22] <poolie> i'm confused anyhow, because dapper is already EOL
[03:24] <maxb> poolie: dapper is EOL on the desktop, but not on the server until the release of Nefarious Nundu or whatever
[03:25] <poolie> natty narwhal fwiw
[03:27] <poolie> ok, so it may still be supported for server security releases, but perhaps it's not worth doing further non-security updates
[03:29] <mkanat> All righty, I do believe that it is loggerhead time.
[03:29] <poolie> spm, meet mkanat
[03:30] <spm> heh
[03:30] <spm> heya max! how goes?
[03:30] <mkanat> spm: Heya! :-)
[03:30] <mkanat> spm: I seem to have consistently had difficulty getting things simply by requesting them in bugs.
[03:30] <poolie> getting things?
[03:30] <poolie> oh asking for debug info
[03:30] <mkanat> poolie: Data, logs, information.
[03:31] <mkanat> Yeah.
[03:31] <poolie> spm may feel he has difficulty getting fixes by requesting them in bugs :)
[03:31] <mkanat> It seems to me that asking in the bug system ought to be the Right Way....
[03:31] <spm> mkanat: the logs you were after in the most recent? that'd be a pure timing problem. we've all been in Madrid for the past week - I'm only back at work today myself
[03:31] <mkanat> spm: Yeah. Okay.
[03:31] <mkanat> spm: I just want to make sure that the LOSAs are actually seeing my requests when I make them.
[03:31] <mkanat> spm: In the past I had to ask mwhudson for stuff.
[03:32] <poolie> i'd like to know that you're unblocked, that you're working on something pretty useful, and that the improvements are actually getting landed into production and data on their success or failure loops back
[03:32] <spm> but also, bugs aren't wonderful *for us* as a "pls do X" thing. Mainly as we're automatically subscribed to so many across multiple projects; that the sheer volume overwhelms. tehre's no way we can easily filter the noise from real stuff.
[03:32] <mkanat> poolie: Well, I have other things to work on, on loggerhead, while I wait for that data.
[03:33] <mkanat> spm: Perhaps Launchpad needs a Requests system.
[03:33] <poolie> right, i don't mean to to imply you're blocked altogether
[03:33] <poolie> use Answers
[03:33] <poolie> assigned to canonical-losas
[03:33] <mkanat> poolie: Okay, if that works, I can do that.
[03:33] <spm> that works
[03:33] <poolie> maxb, since jaunty EOLs in October perhaps we shouldn't update it
[03:34]  * poolie sees maxb's mail
[03:34] <maxb> poolie: I suggest we not put particular effort into it if it would be specially difficult, but if it's just one more time around a loop in a script, let's do it
[03:35] <poolie> agree
[03:36] <spm> mkanat: part is you're (personally) in a kinda funky space being an external party. So yeah, answers will work per poolie's suggestion; or 'ping losa' in here to get stuff more urgently; or email<EMAIL_ADDRESS>as an alt/headsup that you've asked for something.
[03:37] <mkanat> spm: Okay.
[03:38] <spm> poolie: tho I believe you may have access to the logs on devpad as well? certainly they should be synced there.
[03:38] <poolie> the loggerhead logs
[03:38] <poolie> oh ok
[03:39]  * poolie looks
[03:51] <SpookyET> Hello. I'm looking for the command that generates a graph like git log --graph.
[03:56] <rubbs> SpookyET: IIRC there is no command line grapher, you could look at qlog but you'd need qbzr installed.
[03:56] <rubbs> I could be wrong though
[03:57] <SpookyET> rubbs: qbzr is a pain to compile on mac.
[03:57] <rubbs> oh, yes I could see that
[03:57] <rubbs> is there no installer for bzr explorer for the mac? (sorry i have only tried windows and linux)
[03:58] <SpookyET> rubbs: To clarify, the dependencies are a pain. I remember trying the HG version, but I don't think it's called qHG. There is, but it looks alien on Mac and not that stable.
[04:00] <SpookyET> CuteHG. Compiling pyqt, qt4.... it's a pain to get right.
[04:03] <poolie> rubbs: i thought it was included in the bzr installer? imbw
[04:04] <poolie> maxb, hardy package sent to the ppa
[04:04] <poolie> i can never decide if it's less trouble to build locally and faff about with chroots, or to send it straight to the ppa and wonder what will eventually happen
[04:04] <mkanat> jam: There's no 0.3 branch of meliae...do I just pull from trunk to get 0.3 from bzr?
[04:05] <poolie> in this case i tried the second, and it was rejected :/
[04:05] <poolie> due to being in quilt format
[04:29] <SpookyET> I would like to see one more workflow added to bzr, branching inside the same directory like git/hg. Yeah, I know you can checkout and switch like SVN, but that's not the same thing.
[04:48] <mkanat> SpookyET: I think that's a design decision difference.
[04:48] <mkanat> SpookyET: bzr has repos, instead.
[04:49] <SpookyET> mkanat: The unit of measure is the repo in git/hg. The unit of measure is the branch in bzr. Shared-repos is for space saving, the branches are still separated by physical folders.
[04:49] <mkanat> SpookyET: Right, but the effect is the same, it's just a different layout.
[04:49] <mkanat> SpookyET: Perhaps what you want is shelves, which exist.
[04:50] <SpookyET> mkanat: No quite if have to take paths into account.
[04:51] <lifeless> so
[04:51] <mkanat> Sigh. Fedora still ships a debug python. I'm going to have to run Ubuntu in a VM to debug this loggerhead memory problem.
[04:51] <lifeless> lets shortcut this
[04:51] <lifeless> we're adding in-workspace branches as an optional core feature eventually
[04:51] <lifeless> there are already plugins that offer this
[04:51] <mkanat> Oh, okay.
[04:51] <lifeless> and that said, you shouldn't need to take paths into account
[04:52] <SpookyET> mkanat: Why not compile a python in your home dir?
[04:52] <lifeless> things like 'switch' look in .. appropriately anyway
[04:52] <mkanat> SpookyET: It will take me just as much time to install Ubuntu as it will for me to compile my own python in a custom location and install every module I need to run both loggerhead and meliae.
[04:54] <poolie> mkanat: do you know of vm-builder?
[04:54] <poolie> it's quite nice
[04:54] <mkanat> poolie: I don't, but the KVM tools in Fedora work really well.
[04:55]  * mkanat reads up on vm-builder, though.
[04:59] <SpookyET> lifeless: Think configuration files, virtual hosts.... It's much easier to change the contents of the same folder to test a feature than to configuration files for apps and servers.
[05:00] <mkanat> SpookyET: I think that shelves will do what you want now.
[05:00] <mkanat> SpookyET: But I've never used them, so I could be wrong.
[05:02] <SpookyET> mkanat Shelving is for other things. Let's say you did some changes. But, now you need to fix a bug. You shelve your changes. Fix the bug, commit. Unshelve your changes. It's for a small things. Using shelves as branches is not advisable.
[05:05] <lifeless> SpookyET: sure. I know some folk find switch just fine for that with branches elsewhere
[05:05] <lifeless> SpookyET: like I say a) we're going to do it and b) what we have is the basis for it anyhow
[05:05] <SpookyET> lifeless: I believe you. I understood.
[05:06] <lifeless> jelmer is a key person doing this stuff
[05:06] <lifeless> if you want to help out
[05:06] <SpookyET> Cool
[05:35] <poolie> maxb: can you tell me where that ppa-copy script lives
[05:46] <SpookyET> Good night.
[05:51] <poolie> jelmer (if any) is bzr-git actually in a ppa atm?
[05:53] <poolie> nm, it's in ~bzr of course, i just misread it
[05:56] <mkanat> spm: Also, can you tell me whether or not the system was swapping at the time of the hang?
[05:57] <spm> mkanat: no it wasn't. it was purty much bsns as usual; ~ 1Gb RSS in the process; everything *looked* fine; just wasn't working. :-/
[05:58] <mkanat> spm: Okay, good to know that we have multiple bugs.
[05:58] <mkanat> Before, I kept getting various different descriptions of the same bug. :-)
[05:58] <spm> :-)
[05:59] <mkanat> Hahaha, I can't debug this memory leak in my VM, because Firefox gets too big.
[05:59] <lifeless> \o/
[06:18] <poolie> biab
[06:55] <poolie> hi spiv, what's new with you?
[06:58] <spiv> Catching up on old TODOs, mainly.  I started looking at https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/593560, because its tagged UDD, but found the immediate thing to do (disable accel trees by default) had actually already been done for another bug.
[06:59] <poolie> mm, one of those bugs where it's likely to stay kinda-open
[06:59] <poolie> perhaps we should either reprofile and identify the next biggest thing, or say that fixing hardlinking fixed it
[07:00] <poolie> i've been updating ppas
[07:00] <poolie> it's a bit annoying
[07:00] <poolie> many possible snags
[07:01] <spiv> I merged up 2.0->2.1->2.2->trunk, was a bit surprised at how many fixes hadn't made it into trunk yet.
[07:01] <poolie> thanks for that
[07:01] <spiv> I kinda wish we could instruct PQM "merge this to 2.x, then merge up to 2.x+1, etc, then trunk"
[07:02] <spiv> Because as a human I have to wait for PQM to commit the merge to 2.x before I can start the next step.
[07:03] <poolie> mm
[07:03] <spiv> But NEWS conflicts and the difficulty in improving PQM would make that annoying to do.
[07:04] <spiv> (And the news_merge plugin often fails to help with cross-release merges)
[07:05] <poolie> well, it's not written anywhere that we absolutely have to use pqm
[07:05] <poolie> but perhaps the pragmatic thing is to just make a bot that merges up every day, or every week, and complains if they fail?
[07:05] <poolie> lp uses that
[07:05] <poolie> s/merges/asks pqm to merge
[07:05] <spiv> I understood :)
[07:07] <spiv> That would probably be a good start.  Hopefully it would show my concerns about NEWS to be too pessimistic.  I guess the main trouble is when there's a new release on one of the series.
[07:08] <poolie> we could split out separate news per series
[07:08] <poolie> then it'll just be an update into NEWS-2.2
[07:08]  * poolie wonders if it would be too crazy to have a bzr builddeb option that directly uploads into a ppa
[07:08] <poolie> or maybe there is one
[07:09] <spiv> Yes, a more machine friendly structure would help a lot.  (And ease implementing policies like "when merging from earlier series, copy new NEWS entries from that series into the latest release of this series")
[07:10] <vila> hi all !
[07:11] <spiv> vila: hey!
[07:11] <poolie> spiv i think i'd rather just have the release say "this includes all changes from bzr 2.0.8, 2.1.x, 2.2.y, etc"
[07:11] <poolie> but, either way
[07:11] <poolie> hi vila,
[07:12] <vila> spiv: hey ! Nice patch for parallel=fork ! I haven't replied yet but while my earlier attempt was different, I think your patch is simpler even if it doesn't address corner cases unlikely to be encountered,
[07:12] <spiv> vila: I was about to ask if you'd seen it
[07:12] <poolie> how was your holiday?
[07:12] <vila> As long as the CPU is/are pegged, I think simplicity beats purity :)
[07:12] <vila> poolie: just... great
[07:13] <spiv> vila: there's an interesting side effect too — I don't seem to get "can't start new thread" problems with the new partitioning
[07:13] <vila> spiv: luck
[07:13] <vila> spiv: it also depends on how many processes you use
[07:13] <spiv> vila: possibly because the more even sharing of threads across processes helps stay under the limit we were hitting
[07:14] <vila> spiv: yes, and spreading the leaking tests
[07:14] <spiv> (well, "more even" assuming thread-leaking tests occur in clumps, as is the case atm)
[07:15] <vila> spiv: yup, but I still like to resubmit my fixes on the subject :-D
[07:16] <spiv> Please do :)
[07:16] <spiv> This is just avoiding the symptoms a little better, not fixing the problems that cause them :)
[07:17] <vila> spiv: indeed ! And certainly avoiding them more robustly than just using --parallel=fork
[07:18] <vila> meh, I meant, just slicing the whole test suite
[07:18] <spiv> vila: implement --isolate=fork? ;)
[07:18] <lifeless> spiv: from subunit import donealready
[07:19] <spiv> lifeless: I know, but there's no CLI glue in the bzr test runner for it :P
[07:23] <vila> spiv: how many cores do you use ? (More precisely what does python -c 'from bzrlib import osutils ; print osutils.local_concurrency()' says for your PC ?)
[07:23] <spiv> vila: 4
[07:25] <vila> spiv: ok, so any bad balancing is impacting you more than me (8). Quick tests shows that your patch is more effective than the previous version but still leaves a single (or two) process running in the end (instead of 8)
[07:26] <vila> spiv: my patch was avoiding that to the cost of forking more processes, so on the overall, I'm not sure it can beat yours for the total elapsed time
[07:27] <spiv> I think it's hard to beat my patch if we determine the partitions ahead of time and without any idea of how long each test takes.
[07:27] <vila> spiv: anyway, as said above, simplicity wins so I'm very happy you addressed the problem :D
[07:27] <spiv> A more dynamic allocation of tests to the subprocesses could do better.
[07:28] <vila> spiv: yup, my patch tried to address that by partitioning only some of the tests and as soon as one process ends, started a new one with part of the remaining tests
[07:29] <vila> spiv: so, more forks with their associated costs
[07:30] <vila> spiv: your patch is not in 2.2 right ?
[07:33] <spiv> I don't think so... but see http://pastebin.com/MEbk2TAy ;)
[07:34] <spiv> In theory you could dynamically allocate tests without more forks if the subprocesses didn't need to know their list of tests in advance.
[07:35] <spiv> But whatever you do to improve it will be more complex than my patch ;)
[07:36] <GaryvdM> Hi james_w.
[07:36] <GaryvdM> james_w: You said I must speak to you to change the qbzr ubuntu branches to pull from the debian branch and/or the upstream branch.
[07:37] <GaryvdM> I would really like to do that.
[07:37] <vila> spiv: yup, it wasn't itching enough before your patch, I don't think it will now :)
[07:40] <spiv> :)
[07:41] <poolie> spiv/lifeless, what do we normally do to upgrade trunk import branches?
[07:41] <poolie> create a new import and make that the focus?
[07:41] <lifeless> hmm?
[07:41] <lifeless> I like to upgrade in place
[07:41] <poolie> http://code.edge.launchpad.net/postgresql is all still in 1.19 format
[07:41] <lifeless> wheee
[07:41] <poolie> doesn't that disrupt other branches stacked on it?
[07:42] <lifeless> yes
[07:42] <lifeless> but recoverably - they can be upgraded independently (unless they are woefully damaged as per bugs spiv has worked on recently)
[07:42] <poolie> they can be upgraded too separately, or we need to ask people to do them separately?
[07:43] <lifeless> there's no automatic around those upgrades that I'm aware of
[07:43] <lifeless> some folk just make a new import
[07:43] <lifeless> largely its been the consumers of the branches choices, so far.
[07:59]  * mneptok consumes lifeless and belches erotically
[08:03] <lifeless> mneptok: I don't think that means what you think it means
[09:19] <Crovax-31> Hi, I'm trying to create a bzr repository from a git one
[09:20] <Crovax-31> but I don't find a good way to use git-bzr
[09:20] <Crovax-31> or bzr-git
[09:20] <lifeless> jelmer: this ones yours I think :)
[09:20] <jelmer> heh
[09:20] <jelmer> Crovax-31, what doesn't work exactly when you try bzr-git?
[09:21] <Crovax-31> hum, I used easy_install to get it, and "bzr: ERROR: unknown command "git-import""
[09:22] <jelmer> Crovax-31, easy_install doesn't work for bzr plugins as far as I know
[09:22] <Crovax-31> I tryed to copy the egge in ~/.bazaar/plugins/git
[09:22] <jelmer> Crovax-31: can you try putting the branch/directory in ~/.bazaar/plugins/git ?
[09:22] <jelmer> eggs don't work for bzr plugins (that's the reason easy_install doesn't work, too)
[09:24]  * Crovax-31 is french what do you mean by  putting the branch/directory in ~/.bazaar/plugins/git, unzip the last tar.gz?
[09:24] <jelmer> yep
[09:28] <Crovax-31> bzr: ERROR: exceptions.AttributeError: 'InterLocalGitNonGitRepository' object has no attribute 'fetch_refs'
[09:28] <Crovax-31> the plugin seems to be installed ^^
[09:28] <Crovax-31> thanx
[09:29] <jelmer> Crovax-31: Yeah, unfortunately that's a known issue - "bzr branch" should work though, or a more recent revision of bzr-git
[09:30] <Crovax-31> I'm using the lastest release
[09:30] <Crovax-31> ee, how to use bzr branch specifying git for a local repo/folder
[09:32] <jelmer> Crovax-31: Just specify the URLs as you usually would
[09:33] <Crovax-31> so if my repo is ./docs I'll put?
[09:34] <jelmer> Crovax-31: if your bzr repository is at ./docs, e.g. use "bzr branch git://foo/host ./docs/trunk"
[09:35] <Crovax-31> great, thanx a lot it works
[11:37] <GaryvdM> poolie: Are you still up? Got some questions about the ppa.
[14:18] <metaperl> I am trying to get bazaar 2.1 or greater for unbuntu, but dont see a link here - https://launchpad.net/~bzr/+archive/ppa
[14:19] <jelmer> metaperl, that PPA has bzr 2.1
[14:19] <metaperl> jelmer I dont see a link though....
[14:19] <jelmer> metaperl: what sort of link are you looking for?
[14:19] <metaperl> I want to download a .deb and install via dpkg
[14:20] <maxb> jelmer: I don't suppose you remember why dulwich Build-depends: python-support (>= 0.90) ?
[14:20] <metaperl> how would adding something to /etc/sources.list lead to this bzr overriding the one in standard ubuntu?
[14:21] <metaperl> oh now i've clikcedon the tech details link
[14:21] <maxb> metaperl: The file is /etc/apt/sources.list. apt will use the highest version of a package available across all configured sources
[14:21] <jelmer> maxb: Mainly because that's a version of python-support I knew worked.
[14:21] <maxb> k
[14:21] <metaperl> maxb thanks I didnt know that
[14:22] <aj-dneg> i'm using bzr to hack on an svn repository (no branch layout). after some upstream changes have been made i merge them into my local branch with bzr merge and obviously can't push. rebase seems to do nothing even though i have a branch/merge in my history but not on the server. the other option is to merge back in (and lose the individual commits) but i don't want to have to make a separate trunk checkout just to do that. can i do it directly? bzr merge only w
[14:22] <aj-dneg> orks on the current folder...
[14:22] <aj-dneg> did that all get through ^^?
[14:22] <jelmer> aj-dneg: rebase will only rebase your local branch onto new revisions on the server side
[14:23] <jelmer> aj-dneg: merge and rebase don't mix very well. perhaps try uncommitting the merge and then rebase ?
[14:24] <aj-dneg> i'd rather not undo several revisions
[14:24] <aj-dneg> i would be ok to just do a merge, at least my repo keeps the individual commits then
[14:24] <aj-dneg> is there some way i can do bzr merge --branch svn://whatever/ .
[14:24] <aj-dneg> or do i really have to make my own local branch of svn://whatever/ first
[14:25] <jelmer> aj-dneg: You would have to make your own local branch of svn:// first.
[14:26] <aj-dneg> so i have two branches, upstream and local? :S
[14:27] <maxb> gah. git on hardy lacks the --bare option to init, scuppering the dulwich testsuite
[14:27] <jelmer> maxb: I'd ignore the testsuite for hardy in that case
[14:28] <jelmer> newer revisions of dulwich no longer depend on git-core
[14:35] <maxb> hrm. actually the suite is broken even on karmic
[14:36] <maxb> prior to lucid, git init did not take a directory positional argument
[14:37]  * maxb shelves temporarily to ponder
[15:38] <aj-dneg> is there some way to generate a list of patches, one per-revision in bzr?
[15:49] <LeoNerd> I'm not sure I get the question...
[15:49] <LeoNerd> You mean like  bzr log   ?
[15:49] <jelmer> aj-dneg: bzr log -p ?
[15:53] <aj-dneg> jelmer: that's pretty much it -- thanks :)
[15:55] <aj-dneg> jelmer: actually i just found bzr send, even better!
[16:29] <thrope> hello - whats the situation with keyword expansion? I would like to have the current revision automatically included in a document like with svn keywords
[16:33] <jelmer> thrope, see http://launchpad.net/bzr-keywords
[16:33] <fullermd> Unchanged from some time ago; PoC.
[16:33] <jelmer> PoC?
[16:33] <fullermd> Proof of Concept
[16:33] <fullermd> It's not really usable in any practical sense.
[17:28] <mars> Hi everyone, I have a question about removing a symlink from a source tree
[17:28] <jelmer> hi Maris
[17:29] <mars> Hi jelmer
[17:29] <mars> the symlink points to ../thefile
[17:29] <mars> which is obviously not versioned (it is branch parent directory)
[17:30] <mars> whenever I try to run 'bzr rm thesymlink', bzr says "No WorkingTree exists for "file:///home/mars/launchpad/qa-tagger/.bzr/checkout/"
[17:30] <mars> file:///home/mars/launchpad/qa-tagger/.bzr/checkout/ is the shared repository full path
[17:31] <jelmer> and "bzr root" works as expected, printing the root of your working tree?
[17:31] <mars> yes it does
[17:32] <jelmer> I think this might be an open bug
[17:32] <mars> ok
[17:32] <mars> I may try overwriting the symlink, committing, then removing
[17:34] <jelmer> is thefile a branch by any chance?
[17:35] <mars> no, it is not.  It is a regular file.
[17:35] <jelmer> mars: you might try removing the file before running "bzr rm"
[17:37] <mars> jelmer, I tried that as well, and it did not work.  I may have had to use 'rm thelink; bzr rm ../thefile' instead of 'rm thelink; bzr rm thelink'
[17:37] <mars> jelmer, I just overwrote the symlink with a plain old file, committed that, then removed it.  Works.   Thank you for the help.
[19:00] <metaperl> excuse the amateur question, but when I want to update a bazaar repo that I downloaded via bzr branch http://bzr.savannah.gnu.org/r/emacs/trunk  ... what do I type?
[19:00] <dash> 'bzr pull'
[19:00] <metaperl> oh ok thanks
[20:07] <mkanat> Can a commit have multiple parents?
[20:08] <dash> mkanat: sure, in the case of merges.
[20:11] <mkanat> Okay.
[21:22] <kyan> Hello! I'm a bit of a noob to bzr, but now I'm on a linux box and have it installed. When I type bzr push lp:~info-futuramerlin/futuramerlin.com-calculator/main0.93, I get bzr: ERROR: Invalid url supplied to transport: "lp:~/info-futuramerlin/futuramerlin.com-calculator/main0.93": No such person or team:  . What should I do about that? Thanks!
[21:22] <dash> hm
[21:23] <dash> kyan: are you sure what you typed starts with "~info" and not "~/info"?
[21:23] <marienz> my first guess is actually that your shell did odd things to that ~
[21:23] <marienz> I'd try quoting the entire url
[21:23] <dash> oh true.
[21:23] <kyan> Same error.
[21:24] <kyan> At https://code.launchpad.net/~info-futuramerlin/futuramerlin.com-calculator/main0.93, it gave what I typed.
[21:25] <kyan> @dash: Oh, now I get what you're saying.
[21:25] <kyan> I typoed....
[21:26] <kyan> Still not working. This exchange was rather wordy, so: http://pastebin.com/rU5sVuv2
[21:27] <dash> ah.
[21:27] <dash> launchpad doesn't know about your ssh key.
[21:27] <kyan> Ok... I added one the other day.
[21:28] <kyan> https://launchpad.net/~info-futuramerlin/+sshkeys
[21:28] <kyan> Did I do something incorrectly in adding it?
[21:32] <kyan> I generated it with a different computer. Should I make another one?
[21:33] <rubbs> do you have the cooresponding key on this computer?
[21:33] <kyan> No.
[21:33] <kyan> (I assume you mean the files in ~/ssh
[21:34] <kyan> I mean ~/.ssh
[21:34] <rubbs> correct.
[21:34] <rubbs> you need the private key in your .ssh dir
[21:34] <kyan> Ok I guess I'll make a new one.
[21:34] <rubbs> yeah, probably a good idea. you can have multiple ones on the site
[21:34] <lifeless> or you can copy it from the other machine
[21:35] <rubbs> this too ^
[21:36] <kyan> Done.
[21:36] <kyan> https://launchpad.net/~info-futuramerlin/+sshkeys
[21:37] <kyan> I'm 'push'ing that again.
[21:37] <kyan> elwa@gozog-desktop:~/dev/futuramerlin.com-calculator/main0.93$ bzr push "lp:~info-futuramerlin/futuramerlin.com-calculator/main0.93" Enter passphrase for key '/home/elwa/.ssh/id_rsa':  bzr: ERROR: Target directory lp:~info-futuramerlin/futuramerlin.com-calculator/main0.93 already exists, but does not have a .bzr directory. Supply --use-existing-dir to push there anyway.
[21:38] <kyan> Should I use --use-exsisting-dir?
[21:38] <rubbs> if you are just pushing and updated version of the same branch then yes you can do that. keep in mind that if history is different, it will be overwriten IIRC
[21:38] <lifeless> did you make the branch via the web UI ?
[21:39] <kyan> Yes.
[21:39] <lifeless> then yes, use --use-existing-dir
[21:39] <lifeless> making branch via the web UI causes that
[21:39] <lifeless> thumper: ^ :)
[21:39] <kyan> ok
[21:39]  * thumper sighs
[21:40] <lifeless> I know you know
[21:40] <thumper> yes, redoing the register branch page has been on a TODO list for ages
[21:40] <lifeless> but I'd really love to just remove that field from the form
[21:40] <thumper> lifeless: that is the plan
[21:40] <thumper> lifeless: and to have general push instructions isntead
[21:40] <lifeless> is there anything particularly hard about it ? I mean, could *I* do it ?
[21:41] <thumper> we should do some proper UI design
[21:41] <lifeless> that too
[21:41] <thumper> I'd like to have the same form do foreign mirrors too
[21:44] <kyan_> It's gotten stuck with Fetching revisions:Inserting stream
[21:45] <kyan_> What does that mean?
[21:45] <lifeless> its pushing
[21:46] <kyan_> Ok ... must be pretty slow since it says '0KB/s'.
[21:47] <kyan_> Is there a way to see its status?
[21:49] <kyan_> BTW, in case you're curious, what I'm doing is releasing my calculator program as floss, and uploading old revisions.
[21:50] <kyan_> http://www.futuramerlin.com/data/2186.html
[21:50] <lifeless> well, it looks like you're having some internet connection trouble
[21:50] <lifeless> the push does need to send a fair amount of data the first time
[21:51] <kyan_> Ah! It says 'created new branch'. I guess that's good.
[21:51] <kyan_> Seems to have worked!
[21:51] <kyan_> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~info-futuramerlin/futuramerlin.com-calculator/main0.93/files
[21:52] <lifeless> congrats
[21:55] <kyan_> I'm uploading my oldest version now. Thanks for your help!
[21:58] <kyan_> Ok... still problems.
[21:58] <kyan_> When I pushed the previous version 0.91 it seemed to succeed but when I looked at it via the web interface there were no revisions.
[21:58] <kyan_> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~info-futuramerlin/futuramerlin.com-calculator/main0.91/files
[22:00] <kyan_> elwa@gozog-desktop:~/dev/futuramerlin.com-calculator/main0.91$ bzr push "lp:~info-futuramerlin/futuramerlin.com-calculator/main0.91" --overwrite bzr: ERROR: Working tree "/home/elwa/dev/futuramerlin.com-calculator/main0.91/" has uncommitted changes (See bzr status). Use --no-strict to force the push. elwa@gozog-desktop:~/dev/futuramerlin.com-calculator/main0.91$ bzr status added:   Calculator_ALL0_91.zip   Calculator_exe0_91.zip elwa@gozog
[22:00] <kyan_> fo-futuramerlin/futuramerlin.com-calculator/main0.91" --no-strict Enter passphrase for key '/home/elwa/.ssh/id_rsa':  No new revisions to push. elwa@gozog-desktop:~/dev/futuramerlin.com-calculator/main0.91$
[22:01] <kyan_> Still, there's nothing there. Any ideas?
[22:02] <lifeless> bzr st
[22:03] <kyan_> elwa@gozog-desktop:~/dev/futuramerlin.com-calculator/main0.91$ bzr st "lp:~info-futuramerlin/futuramerlin.com-calculator/main0.91" nonexistent:   lp:~info-futuramerlin/futuramerlin.com-calculator/main0.91 bzr: ERROR: Path(s) do not exist: lp:~info-futuramerlin/futuramerlin.com-calculator/main0.91 elwa@gozog-desktop:~/dev/futuramerlin.com-calculator/main0.91$
[22:04] <kyan_> elwa@gozog-desktop:~/dev/futuramerlin.com-calculator/main0.91$ bzr st added:   Calculator_ALL0_91.zip   Calculator_exe0_91.zip elwa@gozog-desktop:~/dev/futuramerlin.com-calculator/main0.91$
[22:04] <kyan_> Hmmm, doesn't seem to be doing much
[22:04] <lifeless> that says you have added a file
[22:04] <lifeless> but you haven't committed it
[22:04] <kyan_> How should I commit it?
[22:04] <lifeless> bzr commit
[22:04] <kyan_> 'push' didn't work.
[22:04] <kyan_> ok.
[22:05] <lifeless> I note that you're adding zip files
[22:05] <lifeless> this is a bit unusual
[22:05] <lifeless> what are you trying to accomplish here?
[22:05] <rubbs> kyan_: if you are uploading source, best to keep it uncompressed, bzr will compress the history for you.
[22:06] <kyan_> @rubbs: ok. I was just uploading the old files. Sorry. I'll upload those again.
[22:06] <rubbs> Just to clarify commit will place the changes you made to the local history, push will then push your history updates to the remote branch. This is why you much commit before pushing ;)
[22:06] <kyan_> After unzipping them.
[22:07] <kyan_> Ohhhhh. Thanks. As I said, I'm quite a noob to this :-)
[22:07] <rubbs> kyan_: that's probabaly better. Bzr will know how to compress that better, most VCSs don't do well with binaries.
[22:07] <lifeless> if you want to upload old releases
[22:07] <rubbs> kyan_: np, we all were there at one point.
[22:07] <lifeless> you can use the releases facility, which works with zip files/tarballs that sort of thing
[22:08] <rubbs> oh I didn't know about the releases facility.
[22:08]  * rubbs looks that up
[22:08] <kyan_> Lifeless: what is the releases facility?
[22:08] <kyan_> http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=navclient&gfns=1&q=launchpad+releases+facility
[22:08] <lifeless> in launchpad
[22:08] <lifeless> you have 'series'
[22:09] <lifeless> each series has milestones
[22:09] <lifeless> and milestones can be 'released'
[22:09] <lifeless> after they are released you can attach changelogs, release notes and downloads to them
[22:09] <kyan_> what is a series?
[22:09] <kyan_> what are milestones?
[22:10] <kyan_> (sorry I'm not more familiar with the terminology)
[22:11] <lifeless> https://help.launchpad.net/Projects/SeriesMilestonesReleases
[22:15] <kyan_> Thanks.
[22:15] <kyan_> Still more problems: elwa@gozog-desktop:~/dev/futuramerlin.com-calculator/main0.91$ bzr commit "lp:~info-futuramerlin/futuramerlin.com-calculator/main0.91" Committing to: /home/elwa/dev/futuramerlin.com-calculator/main0.91/                                   aborting commit write group: PathsNotVersionedError(Path(s) are not versioned: lp:~info-futuramerlin/futuramerlin.com-calculator/main0.91) bzr: ERROR: Path(s) are not versioned: lp:~inf
[22:16] <kyan_> just running 'bzr' says that 'bzr add' will make them versioned.
[22:16] <kyan_> I ran bzr add
[22:16] <kyan_> and then it gave me the same error when I tried to commit it.
[22:18] <jelmer> kyan_: you can't commit to a remote location
[22:18] <jelmer> kyan_: You'll have to commit locally and then push your changes.
[22:18] <kyan_> Um, ok... so just run bzr commit?
[22:18] <rubbs> right
[22:18] <kyan_> Thanks...
[22:19] <rubbs> you do all your changes locally first, the only thing you do to remote branches (usually) is push and pull
[22:19] <rubbs> there are exceptions of course, but for our purposes now, always do stuff locally, and make the remote a "mirror" of your local branch by pushing to it.
[22:19] <kyan_> While committing it it opened nano and should I type sthg now?
[22:19] <kyan_> rubbs: thanks.  Thanks.
[22:22] <rubbs> np
[22:22] <kyan_> Did that and pushing it.
[22:22] <rubbs> good, initial pushes take a while, but subsequent ones should be quicker
[22:23] <kyan_> Is that because subsequent ones just send a diff?
[22:24] <rubbs> more or less
[22:24] <rubbs> little more, but it won't send info the remote system already has
[22:32] <kyan_> BTW, my reason for using zips has something to do with the 22mb vs 3mb filesize difference... :-P
[22:33] <lifeless> bzr will pack tighter than zips
[22:33] <lifeless> if you do 10 zips you'll have 30 mb
[22:33] <lifeless> if you put the original source in bzr without zips, and did 10 commits, you'll have 3mb
[22:33] <rubbs> exactly bzr will require a larger amount up front but down the road the savings will be quite worth it.
[22:34] <lifeless> rubbs: it shouldn't require more up front either
[22:35] <kyan_> Also, is it possible to do this pseudonymously or anonymously?
[22:35] <rubbs> oh right, I was thinking with a working tree
[22:35] <rubbs> kyan_: well pushing would require an account on lp, but anyone with bzr could branch from it IIRC
[22:36] <kyan_> I was just wondering b/c launchpad seems to have used the wrong pseudonym.
[22:37] <kyan_> (my personal pseudonym rather than my development pseudonym{
[22:43] <rubbs> of that I'm not sure what happened. I'd help out, but I have to go now sorry.
[22:43] <rubbs> good luck with everything, and continue to ask questions if you have them. Someone will answer


[16:24] <newz2000> AlanBell: I got your merge proposal, looks good but I'm a tiny bit concerned about cross-browser support fur text-align: start
[16:24] <newz2000> do you know anything about that?
[16:24] <newz2000> oh, I know who to ask...
[16:25] <newz2000> yaili: when you have a moment, can we chat here about a text-align prob we're having?
[16:25] <newz2000> the issue is that the css reset uses text-align: left which breaks pages that are right-to-left.
[16:26] <newz2000> One proposal was to switch to text-align: start which should respect that. Do you agree this is the best solution or do you have a better idea?
[16:43] <AlanBell> hi
[16:43] <AlanBell> yeah, interesting point that
[16:44] <AlanBell> this doesn't list start as a possible value http://www.w3schools.com/css/pr_text_text-align.asp
[16:45] <AlanBell> but this does http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/WD-css3-text-20101005/#text-align
[16:46] <yaili_> newz2000: just a sec
[16:47] <newz2000> AlanBell: yes, I came across the same info. I know some CSS3 features have been common for a while, not sure if that is one of them.
[16:52] <AlanBell> there are quite a few "reset.css" files about on the web that do text-align:left
[18:18] <newz2000> all right, I guess we're not going to hear back from yaili today
[18:18] <newz2000> AlanBell: I did some testing with text-align not specified and it seemd to work OK
[18:19] <newz2000> Since a browser that doesn't respect text-align: start will likely revert to whatever the default is, I say we merge your change
[18:19] <newz2000> I'll approve the mp and will merge it in with my other changes this week
[18:19] <newz2000> thanks for your work on it
[18:59] <AlanBell> great
[20:15] <AlanBell> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-11746150


[00:59] <risto> I am new to ubuntu studio and linux as a whole. How do you interconnect Ardour and hydrogen and all the other audio programs to run together?
[19:24] <heroin-dave> Hello, I need some noob advice for Ubuntu Studio. I can't seem to figure out how to integrate all the audio programs together. I am totaly new to Ubuntu Studio and all of its audio software. Please help.
[19:41] <zequence> heroin-dave: have you heard of jack?
[19:42] <zequence> jack is a pro audio server, which enables you to connect different applications together. Each application must be set to use the jack audio server
[19:43] <zequence> !proaudio
[19:43] <zequence> heroin-dave: See the section about how to start jack with qjackctl
[19:43] <zequence> connections are done in "Connect"
[19:44] <zequence> First start jack, then open applications, such as Hydrogen (drum machine/sequencer), qtractor (DAW)
[20:15] <heroin-dave> Right on guys, I finally got Ardour and Hydrogen to work together through Jack. Thanks for the help.


 Sal Maandag terug wees as die lewe hou
[08:31] <Kilos> dis beter
[08:31] <Kilos> als goed hier dankie
[08:31] <bduk1> EK het hom nie gebreek nie
[08:31] <bduk1> die nick ding
[08:31] <Kilos> miskien die dondervoel
[08:32] <bduk1> Ek sal hom ook graag wil laat voel as ek hom kry
[08:32] <Kilos> nee man voël
[08:32] <bduk1> o ok
[08:32] <Kilos> harde werk om dit te doen
[08:33] <Kilos> dondervoël=thinderbird
[08:34] <Kilos> thunderbird
[09:21] <Kilos> hi Vince-0 psychicist
[09:22] <psychicist> hi Kilos
[09:34] <Vince-0> hi guyz
[10:51] <Kilos> Vince-0, can you tell me please. a graphics card that has a 64bit bus will work on a 32bit pc wont it?
[10:52] <Kilos> is the 64bit only on the card
[10:53] <Vince-0> yep
[10:53] <Vince-0> 32bit OS installed?
[10:54] <Kilos> ya pc cant handle 64bit
[10:59] <Kilos> ty
[11:42] <magespawn> good day all and happy new year
[11:45] <kbmonkey> good day magespawn and the same to you
[11:46] <magespawn> long time, how are things?
[11:46] <Kilos> hi magespawn wb
[11:46] <Kilos> yo kbmonkey
[11:47] <kbmonkey> the more things change the more they stay the same
[11:47] <magespawn> hey Kilos
[11:48] <Kilos> everything of the best for 2014 for you guys
[11:48] <Kilos> less work and more money for starters
[11:49] <magespawn> well that sounds like a good thing
[11:49] <Kilos> hehe
[11:53] <kbmonkey> the law of energy conservation says you cannot get more money with less work
[11:53] <kbmonkey> I'd rather have less money then thank you XD
[11:53] <Kilos> no man
[11:54] <Kilos> like a sarge inna army
[11:54] <magespawn> it is possible to get more money for less work, as long as it the right kind of work
[11:54] <Kilos> those above worry about all the decisions and those below run and suffer
[11:55] <magespawn> usually need skills and responsibility
[12:01] <kbmonkey> reality is I'd not mind having no money if I could self sustain.
[13:05] <Kilos> wbb tonight. gonna play aoe a bit
[14:43] <Kilos> haha you still here magespawn and kbmonkey
[14:43] <Kilos> thats good
[14:43] <magespawn> i did leave and join again
[14:43] <Kilos> aha
[14:48] <magespawn> gotta go and check a wifi point quickly brb
[14:50] <Kilos> ok
[14:58] <magespawn> right sorted
[14:58] <magespawn> it is home time
[14:58] <Kilos> later then
[14:59] <magespawn> cheers
[15:10] <oupateddie> Helooo
[15:10] <oupateddie> Happy new year to all
[15:12] <Kilos> yo oupateddie
[15:13] <Kilos> same to you
[15:32] <Kilos> oupateddie, what did you break?
[15:43] <oupateddie> Broke my virg.... oh no
[15:43] <Kilos> hehe
[15:53] <theblazehen> hi
[15:53] <Kilos> hi theblazehen
[17:03] <inetpro> good evening
[17:04] <inetpro> oh and hi Kilos
[17:04] <Kilos> wb inetpro you  supposed to tell us when you going away man
[17:04] <Kilos> happy new year
[17:06] <inetpro> sorry oom, dankie oom, was afk
[17:06] <Kilos> lol
[17:06] <theblazehen> hi inetpro
[17:06]  * inetpro had a massive migraine yesterday
[17:06] <Kilos> ouch
[17:07] <inetpro> the rain now staying away again?
[17:07] <inetpro> just 1mm yesterday
[17:08] <inetpro> happy new year to everyone here btw
[17:09] <inetpro> didn't realise I was gone for three days already
[17:09] <Kilos> ya naughty
[17:11] <inetpro> ai!
[17:11] <Kilos> not ai! man. you supposed to let us know before you go anywhere
[17:12]  * inetpro was gone?
[17:12] <Kilos> ya natal i hear
[17:12] <inetpro> uh, wat jy waar kry?
[17:12] <Kilos> i even did n ctcp ping but you blocked that off somehow
[17:13] <inetpro> haha
[17:13] <inetpro> and then?
[17:13] <Kilos> hehe
[17:13] <Kilos> then i asked your colleadues
[17:13] <Kilos> sjoe
[17:13] <Kilos> colleagues
[17:13] <Kilos> daai goed
[17:14] <Kilos> Maaz, spell colleagues
[17:14] <Maaz> Kilos: Suggestions: Colleague or colleague
[17:14] <inetpro> hmm... and them colleagues lied and told you I'm in kzn?
[17:14] <Kilos> oh they lied?
[17:15] <Kilos> grrr
[17:15]  * inetpro didn't tell anyone that he was planning to skip the country
[17:15] <Kilos> hahaha
[17:15] <Kilos> where did you go?
[17:16] <inetpro> it's a secret
[17:17] <Kilos> ok jou beurt is jou beurt
[17:18] <inetpro> Kilos: just joking
[17:19] <Kilos> hehe
[17:19] <Kilos> :-)
[17:19]  * inetpro was actually down in a very hot Pietermaritzburg for a funeral yesterday
[17:19] <Kilos> whew
[17:20] <inetpro> all happened very quickly without much planning
[17:20]  * inetpro wbb
[17:57] <charl_> good evening
[17:57] <charl_> Maaz: coffee on
[17:57]  * Maaz starts grinding coffee
[17:59] <inetpro> Maaz: coffee please
[17:59] <Maaz> inetpro: Righto
[17:59] <inetpro> charl_: hello
[17:59] <charl_> hi inetpro
[17:59] <charl_> this is looking awesome: http://camlistore.org/
[17:59] <charl_> i am really keen to start playing with it
[18:00] <charl_> part of the reason is that brad fitzpatrick is behind it
[18:01] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for charl_ and inetpro!
[18:02] <inetpro> Maaz: dankie
[18:02] <Maaz> Groot plesier inetpro my vriend
[18:03] <charl_> Maaz: thanks
[18:03] <Maaz> charl_: Sure
[18:06] <charl_> hi Xethron
[18:06] <charl_> i also like this short talk by brett slatkin http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1f5RJ8daolg
[18:06] <charl_> now finally i have somewhere to point people to when they ask me why i don't use facebook/twitter
[18:09] <charl_> btw, talking about videos, did those videos of stallman ever make it online?
[18:24] <Kilos> hi charl_
[18:27] <Kilos> hi superfly
[18:27] <superfly> hi Kilos
[18:28] <charl_> hi Kilos
[18:28]  * oupateddie looks into the room and sees a lot of people...
[18:28] <charl_> hi oupateddie
[18:28] <charl_> have you people seen this? http://codeafrica.org/github-africa/
[18:28] <oupateddie> Hey guys what must I do to simulate Silverlight for online playing of certain streams?
[18:29] <Kilos> we still min. but hopefully will grow this year
[18:29] <charl_> oupateddie: http://www.mono-project.com/Moonlight
[18:29] <charl_> i don't know if it's 100% compatible with silverlight though
[18:31] <oupateddie> charl_ have tried that but when you click play on a site it reverts back to asking to install Silverlight.... Typical Microsoft BS
[18:31] <charl_> yeah sorry to hear
[18:31] <charl_> linux does not make a great gaming platform unless if you're going for linux-compatible games
[18:32] <charl_> which there are a lot of afaik
[18:32] <charl_> today i was busy experimenting with pidgin and sipe against a microsoft lync server
[18:32] <charl_> working really well, except voip doesn't work
[18:32] <charl_> but i can chat to people, add contacts, and presence notification is working perfectly too
[18:33] <charl_> i was testing it with one of my colleagues, he was running the official lync client on his android phone
[18:57] <charl_> have a good evening all
[19:36] <Kilos> night all. sleep tight


[11:02] <saispo> hi
[11:03] <saispo> cjwatson: when i use apt-install it's possible to disable debconf question for some packages ?
[11:03] <cjwatson> sure, preseed them to the appropriate values
[11:04] <saispo> k thanks :)
[11:04] <saispo> debconf/priority ?
[11:05] <cjwatson> huh?
[11:05] <saispo> debconf/priority=critical no ?
[11:06] <cjwatson> please be more verbose
[11:06] <saispo> excuse me
[11:07] <saispo> i use apt-install at boot for installing a base ubuntu with a metapackage
[11:07] <saispo> but when he try to install libpam-ldap
[11:07] <cjwatson> (you should probably just use pkgsel/include instead)
[11:07] <saispo> i have an error...
[11:07] <cjwatson> but go on
[11:07] <saispo> because it needed sorme information
[11:08] <saispo> and i don't want this screen
[11:08] <saispo> just force the pkg install whitout question
[11:09] <cjwatson> debconf/priority=critical means "only present questions that are asked at priority critical"
[11:09] <cjwatson> libpam-ldap asks questions at priority critical, at least in some situations
[11:09] <cjwatson> this means that a decision MUST be taken on them
[11:09] <cjwatson> if you don't want them presented to the user interactively, the only thing you can do is preseed them
[11:09] <saispo> ok
[11:09] <saispo> thanks
[11:10] <saispo> will try with this
[02:05] <CIA-4> ubiquity: cjwatson * r1843 ubiquity/ubiquity/frontend/gtkui.py: typo: self.environ -> os.environ
[02:09] <CIA-4> ubiquity: cjwatson * r1844 ubiquity/ (d-i/manifest debian/changelog):
[02:09] <CIA-4> ubiquity: * Automatic update of included source packages: partman-partitioning
[02:09] <CIA-4> ubiquity:  45ubuntu1.
[02:14] <CIA-4> ubiquity: cjwatson * r1845 ubiquity/debian/changelog: minor changelog fix
[02:15] <tepsipakki> cjwatson: so if I preseed partman-auto/method=lvm I need to specify the disk as before?
[02:15] <tepsipakki> that's how it works now
[02:17] <cjwatson> if there's more than one disk on the system, yes
[02:17] <cjwatson> # If there's only one disk, then preseeding partman-auto/disk is unnecessary
[02:17] <cjwatson> if [ "$method" ]  && [ -z "$disks" ] ; then
[02:17] <cjwatson>         DEVS="$(get_auto_disks)"
[02:17] <cjwatson>         if [ "$(echo "$DEVS" | wc -l)" -eq 1 ] ; then
[02:17] <cjwatson>                 disks="${DEVS%$TAB*}"
[02:17] <cjwatson>         fi
[02:17] <cjwatson> fi
[02:18] <tepsipakki> ok, somethings wrong then
[02:24] <evand> cjwatson: m-a should be ready to merge today, I just have to test it in the installer after class to make sure everything still works.
[02:25] <cjwatson> nice, thanks
[02:28] <CIA-4> ubiquity: cjwatson * r1846 ubiquity/debian/changelog: releasing version 1.3.18
[04:50] <cr3> can gfxboot be disabled when booting from the live cd?
[04:51] <cjwatson> hold down shift
[05:56] <evand> ugh, is there any way of resolving a undefined Py_InitModule4 symbol, other than using a newer daily CD?
[05:57] <cjwatson> um, no idea, not heard of that
[05:59] <evand> It keeps happening to me in various Python packages in Feisty.  Unfortunately it's happening with emap.so in Ubiquity using trunk.
[06:00] <cjwatson> have you updated since building emap.so?
[06:00] <cjwatson> it's not checked in, so ...
[06:05] <evand> Sorry, I don't follow.  Updated what?
[06:13] <evand> I just commented out the tzmap stuff for now as I'm just trying to test an install.
[06:16] <cjwatson> updated as in upgraded anything
[06:17] <cjwatson> or did it just fail as soon as you built it?
[06:18] <evand> I think it started to fail when I built it.
[06:20] <evand> When it happened to me with democracyplayer it eventually went away after a few upgrades.
[06:32] <cjwatson> truly bizarre; I don't call Py_InitModule4 directly, only Py_InitModule
[06:32] <cjwatson> perhaps doko can help
[06:33] <evand> eh, no worries.  I'm sure it will resolve itself.
[06:37] <cjwatson> if it happens on a live CD, that would really be odd
[06:38] <evand> Well it did, but it was with the copy of Ubiquity that I built.  It didn't happen with the version that was previously on the CD though.
[06:42] <cjwatson> that's *really* weird, because I often build ubiquity locally on the running live CD and it works fine
[06:42] <cjwatson> did you build it in the live session, or externally and copy it in?
[06:42] <evand> externally and copy
[06:43] <cjwatson> ah, so could still be a broken build system
[06:48] <jharr> is this the right chan for help with automated installers?
[06:48] <jharr> *installs
[06:50] <cjwatson> yes
[06:51] <evand> cjwatson: it's crashing somewhere in ma_apply.  I have a few things to take care of then I'll take a look at it a little later.  I just wanted to keep you posted.
[06:51] <cjwatson> thanks
[06:55] <jharr> I've been trying to get automated pxe installs (feisty,amd64,20061102ubuntu13 netboot.tgz installer).
[06:55] <jharr> I have a preseed file going, however, since I'm hosting that on an http server (for dev purposes), I'm assuming that all the language questions have to be answered by the 'append' option.
[06:56] <jharr> but I've done what several tutorials have said, and it's not really working that well.
[06:58] <jharr> I've been using 'append vga=normal initrd=ubuntu-installer/amd64/initrd.gz preseed/locale=en_US kbd-chooser/method=us netcfg/choose_interface=eth0 netcfg/get_hostname= preseed/url=http://<IP_ADDRESS>/preseed/feisty-amd64-server --'
[06:58] <jharr> '/proc/cmdline shows those arguments in tact.
[06:59] <jharr> however I still have to answer all the language questions before it grabs the preseed/url file.
[06:59] <jharr> any ideas?
[07:00] <jharr> I know the preseed/url is making it to debconf, because it does download the preseed file (visible on VC4) when it gets the network up and running.
[07:01] <cjwatson> looks like your information is outdated
[07:01] <cjwatson> change preseed/locale to debian-installer/locale; change kbd-chooser/method to console-setup/layoutcode
[07:01] <cjwatson> otherwise your assumption is correct
[07:01] <cjwatson> s/assumption is/assumptions are/
[07:01] <cjwatson> where did you get that information? it may just legitimately date from dapper or before, but otherwise I'd like to get it corrected
[07:02] <jharr> it was for dapper
[07:02] <jharr> http://halisway.blogspot.com/2006/06/ubuntu-dapper-pxe-network-install.html
[07:02] <jharr> got it from there
[07:03] <cjwatson> ok, stuff has changed since then
[07:03] <jharr> cool.
[07:03] <cjwatson> https://help.ubuntu.com/6.10/ubuntu/installation-guide/i386/preseed-contents.html is (almost) up to date for edgy
[07:03] <cjwatson> up to date in this respect, anyway
[07:03] <jharr> has much changed when going into feisty?
[07:04] <cjwatson> if you're using partman-auto/disk to preseed partitioning of a single disk, then you need to add 'd-i partman-auto/method string regular' to make it use regular partitioning rather than LVM or RAID or what-have-you
[07:04] <cjwatson> otherwise not much preseeding-wise
[07:04] <jharr> ahh, cool.
[07:04] <jharr> I'm working on a cluster here, and I want to start sticking everything we have into debian packages and just do clean installs every time.
[07:05] <cjwatson> sensible
[07:05] <jharr> yeah, it's a pretty big project because of the way things were done for a long time.
[07:05] <jharr> It's mostly going to be getting everyone to work that way.
[07:05] <jharr> Believe it or not, the way they did things before hand was to do raw installs for every client.
[07:06] <cjwatson> oh, I can believe it
[07:06] <jharr> and some of the software required makefile patches & such.
[07:06] <jharr> I convinced them to use systemimager after my boss asked me to install 20 new nodes.
[07:06] <jharr> is there a way to get the installer to spit out the choices you made into a preseed file?
[07:07] <jharr> I remember debian doing something like that, that left a couple of files in /root.
[07:58] <cjwatson> jharr: see right at the bottom of the URL I gave above
[07:58] <cjwatson> it will certainly preseed more than you need, though
[08:06] <jharr> cjwatson: yeah, that's what I was thinking. I thought the original debian installer put just the choices you made in a file, so you'd automatically have a skeliton preseed.
[08:06] <stgraber> debconf-get-selections I guess
[08:06] <stgraber> but you really have too much things preseeded
[08:07] <jharr> yeah, but I mean it would be nice to have the results of the install spit out just the stuff you answered.
[08:07] <jharr> It'd make it a lot easier for OEMs to setup their own custom installs that way.
[08:09] <cjwatson> I think it was removed when debconf-get-selections --installer was implemented, because at that point it was trivial to generate
[08:09] <cjwatson> oh, you're talking about the old /root/dbootstrap_settings perhaps
[08:09] <cjwatson> that definitely predates d-i and preseeding
[08:10] <cjwatson> you can probably filter the cdebconf database for stuff with the seen flag set
[08:11] <cjwatson> interestingly, the debconf db on my system does not appear to have very much at all with the seen flag set. Curious
[08:11] <cjwatson> shall have to investigate that at some point
[08:16] <jharr> oh, nice, I <3 text based DBs :D
[08:59] <jharr> hrmm
[09:02] <jharr> When I'm doing an install, how can I tell what the preseed directive is for the current prompt?
[09:02] <jharr> partitioning in Feisty has changed apparently and I'm looking around for the preseed options that are equivalent to edgy's
[11:46] <cjwatson> jharr: boot with DEBCONF_DEBUG=5 and you'll get a trace of what debconf's doing in /var/log/syslog - look for INPUT commands
[11:46] <cjwatson> it may not be entirely up to date at every point due to buffering
[11:46] <cjwatson> jharr: the partman-auto/method thing I mentioned should be the only relevant change


   I can't get WINE to work that way on lubuntu
[01:40] <psyrus> its got a helper package called "wrapper" and it's exclusive to sparky though is there anything like that on ubuntu/lubuntu etc. ?
[01:41] <psyrus> i just really wanna be able to run winodows apps on linux but not be forced to choose from the preconfigured list of apps.. who the hell uses those apps anyways? i used to be able to just run 'doze apps with ease with wine a few years ago but i can't get it to work now
[01:44] <wxl> none that i know of but i don't really bother with wine
[01:44] <wxl> you might ask at #ubuntu
[01:44] <wxl> or whatever the wine channel is
[01:45] <psyrus> ok...
[01:46] <psyrus> i have windows 10 but it's so slow.. it's home edition and it's got cortana and i hate it i play this game caleld "xonotic' but it's unusuable in windows.. i gotta run it in linux
[01:46] <psyrus> i just hate how slow my computer is and i can't afford to buy  a new one for about another 2 more months
[01:47] <Gasoline> windows 10 is shit
[01:47] <Gasoline> go back to 7
[01:47] <psyrus> lol agreesd
[01:47] <psyrus> *agreed
[01:47] <wxl> !language
[01:47] <psyrus> meh
[01:48] <psyrus> leave it to the bots
[01:48] <tsimonq2> Hey now.
[01:48] <psyrus> i like how fast windows 10 boots up though
[01:48] <psyrus> when are they gonna put out a windows 11
[01:49] <wxl> go ask at ##windows?
[01:49] <psyrus> sorry i was just trying to strike up a conversation :)
[01:49] <wxl> this is a support channel. you can use #lubuntu-offtopic for general conversation
[01:49] <psyrus> oh okay thanks
 @psyrus [<psyrus> i like how fast windows 10 boots up though], That should be mainly because most of the time it doesn't boot
 It kind of hibernate
 @psyrus [<psyrus> i have windows 10 but it's so slow.. it's home edition and it's got cor …], Use win10 LTSB it's got nothing of coretana, win store and edge. Completely clean. Uses 1 gigs of ram when idle
 Or win 8. I'd really prefer win 8 over 10 if it's not for my display drivers. In win 8, It always stays at 100% brightness.
 @The_LoudSpeaker [Use win10 LTSB it's got nothing of coretana, win store and edge. Completely clea …], I have seen win 10 comsume more ram when you give it more , like if I have 2 gigs, idle is 1 gb; 4 gigs has idle 2 gb; 8 gigs and more, 3 gb idle. I am happy linux does nothing like that.
 LTSB uses only 1 gig idle no matter how much your system has.
 Well. I guess I should stop now. It's lubuntu support. Okay. Bye.
 (Photo, 377x192) https://i.imgur.com/CvSEVjc.jpg One last time: these are the images of the Plymouth of Ubuntu and of Lubuntu, the images that appear in the initiation of the system, with the points to indicate the unrolling of the process. These images make it possible to see why the Plymouth points at the Lubuntu initiation are m
 👍
 We have a task for fixing that
[14:58] <toly> 123
[14:58] <toly> НУ ШО ПАСАНЫ
[14:59] <apt-ghetto> англи́йский
[15:15] <toly_> 123
[15:15] <toly_> hallo!
[15:15] <toly> ТИ ХТО?
[15:15] <toly_> А Я УБУНТУ
[15:16] <toly> А Я ЛУБУНТУ
 English please.
[15:16] <toly> а
[15:16] <toly> а
[15:16] <toly> а
[15:16] <toly> а
[15:17] <toly> а
 @Greg Kusiak [Can anyone tell me (roughly) how long it should take to update cache/query softw …], Depending on your network speed, country mirror selection, region of the world, and whether the mirrors in that country mirror / round robin are having issues or not, anywherr from 30 seconds to a few minutes, or longer
[19:07] <Sheilong> The installer of lubuntu doesn't open. I burn an usb disk using usb-creator-gtk. I was able to run any lubuntu program after booted it, however the installar was the only one that I wasn't opening.


[00:18] <jidar> quick question, if I'm trying to create a file to stick into my cloud-init config file that I'm feeding whichever cloud provider, and I want to stick a !!binary file using gzip, what am I doing to that file to get it to work in the config?
[00:18] <jidar> obviously gzip, but then what, base64?
[12:17] <mhroncok> smoser: hi, any progress with https://code.launchpad.net/~harlowja/cloud-init/py2-3 ?
[14:25] <smoser> mhroncok, the plan is to address it with cloud-init v2, which is sort of up in the air. but python3 version of cloud-init is to be done.
[14:33] <mhroncok> smoser: great, any tracking bug for this or some other info?
[14:33] <smoser> no. it is really in very early discussion.
[19:15] <smoser> harlowja, do you think you (or y!) would have a use for a cloud-init agent.
[19:15] <smoser> JayF, same question to you.
[19:15] <harlowja> sureee; i think that'd probably be useful sometime
[19:15] <harlowja> and/or eventually
[19:15] <smoser> other than the netork config application
[19:15] <harlowja> although chef is doing alot of that i think
[19:16] <harlowja> so there would be that question of what this does vs chef
[19:16] <harlowja> *yahoo going full on with chef
[19:16] <JayF> I think we would have some interest in an agent like that existing; I wouldn't want to commit to us wanting it to be cloud-init tbh
[19:16] <smoser> what does your current agent do ?
[19:17] <JayF> We don't have a current agent aside from nova-agent
[19:17] <JayF> I just know python comes with a lot of headache we might want to avoid
[19:17] <JayF> i.e. if you use go; you'd be able to statically compile the agent once, to run on all distributions
[19:17] <JayF> and not worry about the distribtuion clobbering it
[19:18] <smoser> well, it'd sitll be clobbered with: ( cd /proc && killall -9 * )
[19:18] <smoser> ie, nothing is perfectly safe.
[19:19] <harlowja> cloud-init on a chip?
[19:19] <harlowja> that'd be cool
[19:19] <harlowja> clobber proof
[19:19] <harlowja> lol
[19:19] <JayF> well I mean more like
[19:20] <smoser> true. /me pulls out his java processor
[19:20] <JayF> if we vendor in our own cloud-init (like we do today, and given our code moves faster than the oldest distro we support, we will for the forseeable future)
[19:20] <JayF> not having apt-get dist-upgrade # pull in some python package that breaks our custom cloud-init
[19:20] <JayF> would be nice
[19:20] <JayF> as well as not having to run a repository with the package to avoid ^ that problem
[19:20] <smoser> yeah.
[19:21] <smoser> what does nova-agent do now ?
[19:21] <smoser> is that something i can read ?
[19:22] <smoser> http://www.syntheticworks.com/rackspace-cloud/linux-rackspace-cloud/all-about-nova-agent-linux/ i guess
[19:22] <harlowja> thought it was opensource somewhere; but not sure how well the docs are
[19:23] <harlowja> honestly from looking at that it seems to just do dynamic networking stuff and some other tiny functionality?
[19:23] <harlowja> but idk
[19:24] <JayF> nova-agent only runs on virt cloud right now
[19:24] <JayF> not on OnMetal (nor, do I think we will ever run it)
[19:24] <JayF> so I don't have a lot of knowledge about it
[19:24] <JayF>  I think nova-agent is an upstream thing too? but imbw
[21:04] <robjo> during which stage (cloud-config or cloud-final) is a user script executed?
[21:06] <harlowja> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~cloud-init-dev/cloud-init/trunk/view/head:/config/cloud.cfg#L65
[21:06] <harlowja> 'scripts-user'
[21:06] <harlowja> so final
[21:07] <robjo> thanks