[12:55] <jjesse> evening
[12:56] <nosrednaekim> hello.
[01:05] <Riddell> hmm, no tonio with kaffeine
[01:22] <nosrednaekim> Riddell: you do work on guidance power manager, right?
[07:50] <Hobbsee> did the kdesudo dialog ever get uploaded?
[07:57] <fdoving> i've hacked a littlebit on that.
[07:57] <fdoving> but i need to go to work. bye. :)
[07:57] <Hobbsee> cya
[09:17] <Jucato> (at the same time)
[09:18] <nixternal> that would be like one giant bear hug
[09:18] <Jucato> ;)
[09:19] <Jucato> sleep first, build later :)
[09:20] <nixternal> !hobbsee
[09:20] <ubotu> I phear the stick so shhhhh
[09:20] <nixternal> haha
[09:20] <Jucato> lol
[09:21] <Hobbsee> hahaha
[09:25] <nixternal> !jucato
[09:25] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about jucato - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[09:25] <Jucato> :)
[09:25] <nixternal> Hobbsee: I think he needs one :)
[09:25] <Jucato> good bot :)
[09:25] <nixternal> !nixternal
[09:25] <ubotu> Oh no!  The pointy-clicky Vista lover has arrived!
[09:25] <Jucato> lol!
[09:25] <nixternal> gah
[09:26] <Jucato> I'm not that known amongst the wider -devel population to warrant one :)
[09:26] <nixternal> that's it, I am switching to Xandros!
[09:26] <Jucato> hahaha
[09:26] <Jucato> same thing :P
[09:26] <nixternal> Jucato: known as much as I am
[09:26] <nixternal> haha right
[09:26] <nixternal> I just got done reading the Xandros forums
[09:26] <Jucato> heheh
[09:26] <nixternal> all 15 of their users quit
[09:27] <Jucato> is Xandros that desperate for publicity or whatever?
[09:27] <nixternal> don't know..but that wouldn't warrant bedding with Microsoft
[09:27] <nixternal> one of the Xandros users said Ubuntu is next to strike a deal, and the only distro that would never cave is Debian
[09:27] <Jucato> yeah right :)
[09:30] <nixternal> someone said it best..Microsoft realizes that Vista isn't doing well and that Linux is taking off..so this is the way they fix the problem
[09:31] <Jucato> yeah, "dig a deeper hole" always fixes problems :)
[09:31] <nixternal> hehe
[09:31] <nixternal> alright...package didn't work...sleep time
[09:31] <nixternal> g'nite
[09:31] <Jucato> g'night!
[09:32] <Jucato> hm.. you sleep at this hour, while Admiral_Chicago eats...
[09:51] <yveslu> hi
[09:51] <yveslu> http://dot.kde.org/1172617283/1172768274/1172773687/1172776025/
[09:51] <yveslu> any plan to turn this feature on for gusty? it should greatly improve kdes startup speed
[09:51] <Hobbsee> yveslu: neat!
[09:52] <yveslu> yes :)
[09:52] <yveslu> sorry for spamming ;)
[09:52] <Hobbsee> depends when the binutils is released, i guess
[09:53] <yveslu> as Fedora 7 is out, I guess they are already, or in the process of...
[09:54] <Hobbsee> yveslu: main is frozen for tribe 1 now.  maybe after that
[09:55] <yveslu> ok... let's hope for it :-)
[09:57] <Hobbsee> upstream is saying it's causing bugs
[09:57] <Hobbsee> on the ML
[10:01] <yveslu> oh
[10:01] <yveslu> got a link?
[10:02] <Hobbsee> yveslu: third comment.  http://lists.kde.org/?l=kde-optimize&m=115867874021537&w=3 and continuing the thread
[10:03] <yveslu> yes I have read about that. but it's a different thing than Thiago wrote about
[10:03] <yveslu> he wrote about the -reduce-relocations configure option of Qt... I have never seen any comment about so far
[10:03] <Hobbsee> oh wait
[10:03] <Hobbsee> right, yeha
[10:04] <Hobbsee> looks interesting - both of them
[10:05] <yveslu> yes
[10:07] <yveslu> also, I'm not sure whether it's a Qt4-only-thing
[10:09] <yveslu> got to go... have a nice day
[10:15] <Tonio_> hey ;)
[10:15] <Tonio_> Riddell: kaffeine commited
[10:15] <Tonio_> Riddell: sorry for beeing late on that point, but as it only builds since yesterday, and I still don't have internet at home :'(
[10:16] <Tonio_> Riddell: btw you can ping pitti to approve
[10:16] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: main is frozen now - what's the change?
[10:16] <Jucato> hah! exercising -core powers :)
[10:16] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: kaffeine plugin doesn't crash konqueror
[10:16] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: okay.  have you uploaded it yet?
[10:16] <Tonio_> 5 weeks without internet at home.......
[10:16] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: and is there anything else that we should have fixed pre-tribe1?
[10:17] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: nope, but Riddell asked me to upload
[10:17] <Tonio_> so did I
[10:17] <Tonio_> french providers technically are good, but the services are really really really bad reguarding to the customers
[10:17] <Hobbsee> ahhh
[10:20] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: ah right, it's already uploaded.  asking
[11:31] <Hobbsee> hi Lure!
[11:31] <Hobbsee> Lure: test failed
[11:33] <Jucato> Lure: thanks for the comment btw :)
[11:46] <Riddell> anyone on gutsy able to confirm the new kdebase and system settings last night fixed kcontol and ss?
[11:47] <Hobbsee> Riddell: it loads now
[11:48] <Riddell> which?
[11:52] <Hobbsee> Riddell: system settings.  and kcontrol, for the most part
[11:52] <Riddell> most part?
[11:53] <hunger> What was broken?
[11:53] <Hobbsee> Riddell: seems to be some kdesudo breakage in kcontrol/system settings, though, whenever you hit hte administrator mode button
[11:53] <Hobbsee> not sure if that's happening with kdesu too - i think it was, prior to that patch
[11:54] <hunger> Switching to admin mode works for me.
[11:55] <Riddell> Hobbsee: in gutsy?
[11:57] <Riddell> hunger rather ^^
[11:58] <hunger> Riddell: Yeap.
[11:58] <hunger> Riddell: Last update was about 30min ago.
[11:59] <Riddell> ok, groovy, I'll see what happens on the CDs for kdesu then
[11:59] <Riddell> maybe kdesudo will fix this one day
[11:59] <hunger> Does that switch to admin thingy work for users not allowed to do sudo? Just curious.
[12:01] <Riddell> no
[12:01] <Riddell> certainly better not anyway
[12:04] <hunger> Riddell: It could fall back to su:-)
[12:04] <hunger> Well, probably too much work anyway...
[12:47] <Riddell> Hobbsee: have you played with seeds yet?
[12:48] <Riddell> mhb: able to point Dominic Liche towards how to help with testing?
[12:48] <Riddell> (on kubuntu-devel list)
[12:51] <Riddell> Hobbsee: if you want to try it out you can add dolphin and remove kmplayer from desktop
[01:15] <Hobbsee> Riddell: no i havent, yes i want to, and damn my connection *sucks*
[01:17] <Riddell> Hobbsee: bzr checkout<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[01:17] <Hobbsee> thanks
[01:17] <Riddell> emacs desktop; bzr diff; bzr commit
[01:17] <Hobbsee> will look in a min - want to check out kaffeine first
[01:17] <Riddell> other seeds listed on https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntu-seeds/
[01:18] <Riddell> also (inside the kubuntu.gutsy directory) bzr merge<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[01:19] <Riddell> fix any problems; bzr resolve foo (where foo is any file that had a conflict); bzr diff (to check it's all good); bzr commit
[01:20] <Hobbsee> right
[01:41] <LongPointyStick> Riddell: my connection is terrible tonight
[01:41] <LongPointyStick> you may need to do this, if i cant get the checkout
[01:41] <LongPointyStick> if i stop responding on irc, i've been d/c'd again
[01:45] <nosrednaekim> Lure: hello
[01:45] <Hobbsee> ooh yay, it downloaded
[01:46] <Hobbsee> Riddell: did you happen to commit that already?
[01:46] <Riddell> Hobbsee: nope
[01:47] <Riddell> well, you can use bzr log and see :)
[01:47] <Hobbsee> Riddell: there's no kmplayer in the desktop seed, only kmplayer-konq-plugins
[01:47] <Riddell> yeah, that's the one we don't need any more
[01:47] <Hobbsee> ah right
[01:59] <Riddell> if we wanted to keep it in main we could put it in supported, but there's no reason to keep it in main
[01:59] <LongPointyStick> aaaa
[02:09] <Hobbsee> Riddell: okay...done the merge, attemtping to commit again
[02:18] <Hobbsee> right, committed.
[02:22] <Hobbsee> Riddell: seeds pushed.
[02:23] <hunger> The new guidance-backends conflicts with the old kde-guidance on some files (e.g. /usr/share/apps/guidance/vesamodes).
[02:45] <Hobbsee> mmm...bugger.
[02:45] <n8k99> really?
[03:09] <Riddell> ScottK: best not to troll
[03:10] <ScottK> Riddell: Didn't troll.  Told the honest truth.  I started with Xandros and moved to Kubuntu and have been happy.
[03:11] <ScottK> Actually, messages was wrong, it was just one.
[03:36] <Hobbsee> hiya Jucato!
[03:37] <Jucato> hi Hobbsee! :)
[03:39] <Hobbsee> :(
[03:39] <Jucato> oooh! that feels better :)
[03:43] <Hobbsee> that new volume dialog box rocks, btw
[03:43] <Jucato> kmilo? kewl
[03:43] <Jucato> er... kool
[03:47] <Hobbsee> yep
[03:51] <apachelogger> is autoremoving old kernels planed for gutsy?
[03:52] <Jucato> is that advisable? I mean unless it leaves at least one other kernel
[03:52] <Hobbsee> you'd only need one old one
[03:53] <Jucato> so that autoremover would leave that old one?
[03:53] <apachelogger> yup
[03:53] <apachelogger> though
[03:53] <apachelogger> maybe just do a check
[03:54] <apachelogger> for example check at 3rd boot after upgrade whether old kernel has been booted at least once, if not just remove it
[03:54] <apachelogger> so if one notices strange behaviour with new kernel there is 3 boots time to try with old one
[03:56] <apachelogger> Hobbsee: in revu mood?
[03:56] <Hobbsee> apachelogger: hmm...not particularly, sorry, my connection is crap tonight
[03:56] <Hobbsee> means downloading anything, even to remote debsign, will be very painful
[03:56] <apachelogger> ok :)
[03:57] <Hobbsee> that's what mtr is telling me, anyway
[03:58] <apachelogger> doesn't sound very funny :|
[03:59] <Hobbsee> not overly.   i'm ssh'd into a friend's machine, so any time it drops, it doesnt take forever to reconnect to irc
[03:59] <apachelogger> :)
[04:01] <Hobbsee> also helpful for when i pull the cable
[04:01] <Hobbsee> fortunatley, $friend's machine is abotu 20km away, so the latency, even on a crap day, isnt too bad.
[04:06] <Lure> Riddell: I suspect this is known: trying to overwrite `/usr/share/python-support/kde-guidance/.version', which is also in package kde-guidance-powermanager
[04:06] <Hobbsee> Lure: someone's mentioned it earlier, but no ones' fixed it yet
[04:06] <Hobbsee> 22:24 < hunger> The new guidance-backends conflicts with the old kde-guidance on some files (e.g. /usr/share/apps/guidance/vesamodes).
[04:06] <Hobbsee> maybe there are 2, then.
[04:08] <Riddell> Lure: nnarg
[04:08] <Lure> Hobbsee: this is probably caused by recent change of Riddell to split out guidance backend
[04:08] <Lure> Riddell: full log: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/24240/
[04:15] <Riddell> Hobbsee: if your connection too broken to update kubuntu-meta still?
[04:15] <Hobbsee> Riddell: already uploaded, and accepted
[04:16] <Hobbsee> Riddell: i've renamed it "the spiderweb" though
[04:17] <Riddell> oh, there it is on gutsy-changes, groovy
[04:17] <Hobbsee> :)
[04:32] <nosrednaekim> Lure: your idea sounds good for guidance powermanager.
[04:34] <mhb> Riddell: will do
[04:38] <mhb> Riddell: oh, Lure was a few minutes faster ... thanks Lure
[04:41] <Riddell> Lure: it's python-central being strange.  I don't understand why it does this now but didn't do it before when we already had two packages from the guidance source package
[05:05] <Hobbsee> wow.  my kubuntu devel logs go back to breezy, in december 05
[05:05] <Hobbsee> no wonder kate dies a little when trying to open them
[05:05] <hunger> Hobbsee: Wow... you must be *old* ;-)
[05:05] <Hobbsee> hunger: *grin*
[05:06] <Hobbsee> i'm not that old
[05:06] <Hobbsee> hunger: i've been using linux for a bit under 2 years
[05:06] <hunger> Hobbsee: I'd be surprised if you were older than me.
[05:06] <Hobbsee> actually, that wouldnt ahve been the earliest time i was in kubuntu-devel, either.
[05:07] <Hobbsee> that's just when i finished school, so actually looked to do some serious dev stuff on kubuntu
[05:08] <Hobbsee> hunger: how old are you?
[05:09] <hunger> Hobbsee: 32.
[05:09] <Hobbsee> hunger: heh.  you win the record for being older, then
[05:11] <hunger> Hobbsee: Yes, saw that comming...
[05:13] <Hobbsee> heh
[05:14] <Hobbsee> hah.  my #kubuntu log is 19mb
[05:14] <Hobbsee> #ubuntu is 48.7mb
[05:20] <hunger> Hobbsee: And you did something with your young live.... being a kubuntu dev and all... I just wasted my youth on strange (and nowadays dead) projects:-)
[05:20] <Hobbsee> hunger: heh.  my uni is suffering a lot, though
[05:21] <hunger> Hobbsee: So was mine:-) But then you learn lots of stuff here... I profited more from my project stuff than the uni stuff.
[05:21] <Hobbsee> unfortunately, this stuff doesnt correspond so much to my uni stuff
[05:21] <hunger> You are not doing CS?
[05:22] <Hobbsee> nope
[05:22] <Hobbsee> bachelor of technology in optoelectronics
[05:23] <hunger> Hobbsee: I see your problem then...
[05:23] <hunger> Is that electronic in glasses? like MP3 players and stuff ;-)
[05:24] <Hobbsee> lights, lasers, fibre optic cables, etc
[05:26] <hunger> Hobbsee: I see: stuff to attach to a computer only... nothing interesting ;-)
[05:26] <Hobbsee> hehe
[05:26] <Hobbsee> oh it's interesting
[05:26] <Hobbsee> but so's the stuff i'm doing for kubuntu, especially the release stuff.
[05:26] <Hobbsee> so i've got no idea what will happen.
[05:33] <hunger> Hobbsee: I'm sure everything will work out.
[05:33] <Hobbsee> yeah.  i hope so :)
[05:33] <Hobbsee> okay, i know a few of the things that *could* happen, but i dont know which will win.
[05:56] <ScottK> Riddell: I think yazpp will be in good shape after the next upload.  It's close now.
[05:59] <Riddell> ScottK: asimon is here if you need to poke him :)
[06:01] <asimon> ScottK: I'll upload a fixed version later, thanks for your review.
[06:03] <apacheLAGger> anyone ever saw a properly made tarball from kdevelop?
[06:04] <mhb> is the kubuntu website available in bzr? I forgot...
[06:05] <Riddell> yes
[06:05] <Riddell> https://code.launchpad.net/kubuntu-website/
[06:06] <mhb> oh, just found it
[06:06] <Riddell> my main branch
[06:06] <ScottK> asimon: You're welcome.  Thanks for contributing.
[06:07] <mhb> why isn't the kubuntu-website (or a branch of it) available for Kubuntu members to hack?
[06:10] <mhb> Riddell: I think kubuntu members are a reliable sort, and the kubuntu website is along with k-d-s more-or-less the stuff we do, so I see no reason in preventing ourselves from commiting to it
[06:11] <Hobbsee> who can get to it now?
[06:12] <Riddell> mhb: well it is, branch away and I'll merge when it's good
[06:12] <Riddell> mhb: but we should get the whole kubuntu-website spec thing moving
[06:14] <mhb> Riddell: I agree, that's why I suggested that
[06:14] <ScottK> asimon: I'm good.  I'm on my way out the door.  I'll leave an advocating comment later today if someone else doesn't get it first.
[06:15] <mhb> Riddell: having a branch all members can commit to may speed up the innovation flow, even if the page becomes a bit unstable at first
[06:17] <mhb> kwwii, nixternal: you two seem to have branches for kubuntu website. I'm thinking perhaps a single branch we all (members and other interested people) could commit to would be nice. What do you think?
[06:18] <nixternal> that is up to the big man :) don't know why I would have 2 branches...should be just one
[06:18] <nixternal> but then again, I am a bzr dummy
[06:24] <mhb> Riddell: in order to get things moving, I'd suggest a shared branch for the ~kubuntu-website team. Kubuntu Members should be a part of that team so they can hack on it. (I hope indirect teams have access to the code.)
[06:24] <mhb> Riddell: do you know what that team is for? It currently has only Matthew Nuzum listed.
[06:25] <Riddell> mhb: which team?
[06:25] <nixternal> mhb: only Canonical employees can have access to the "official" one
[06:25] <Riddell> mhb: shared branch doesn't change anything much since it still needs to be merged in manually by me (only person with access to the server)
[06:26] <mhb> Riddell: true
[06:26] <nixternal> the possibilities with cdbs are endless
[06:27] <mhb> Riddell: but I still think that if we open up the code this way, we will get more code
[06:27] <Hobbsee> ooh, this debate again?
[06:28] <mhb> no, not this one
[06:28] <mhb> the other one :o)
[06:28] <nixternal> haha
[06:28] <nixternal> nice comeback there mhb :)
[06:28] <nixternal> but you need to remeber one thing mhb...
[06:28] <nixternal> !hobbsee
[06:28] <ubotu> I phear the stick so shhhhh
[06:29] <mhb> Hobbsee: okay, I'll put it in a different way
[06:29] <Hobbsee> differnt topic, same subject.
[06:29] <Hobbsee> fun stuff
[06:30] <Hobbsee> mhb: what i've learned about this is that if you can do it in a way that's not going to hurt canonical, they'll probably say yes.
[06:30] <mhb> current situation: 1 jr (you can say stable) branch, 4 other branches for individuals
[06:30] <Hobbsee> but you might have to push a bit.
[06:30] <Hobbsee> i dunno how you apply that to a website, though
[06:30] <mhb> better solution: 1 jr branch, 1 trunk branch
[06:31] <nixternal> I will agree that is a better solution instead of having a bunch of personal branches
[06:31] <mhb> people have access to the trunk branch, but not the server itself
[06:31] <mhb> once the code is well and approved, jr branch merges and jr publishes it on the website
[06:31] <nixternal> just give access to ~kubuntu-members like with k-d-s
[06:33] <mhb> Hobbsee: I'm just talking about the code, not the site admin rights
[06:33] <Hobbsee> mhb: true that.  i was talking in the general case
[06:34] <Hobbsee> mhb: oh, the other thing i've learned is that canonical may well want input from the community, but may not be asking for it.
[06:34] <Hobbsee> dunno if any of that's relevant - but it may help in this, or future tsuff.
[06:34] <nixternal> Hobbsee: another thing I learned, is that Canonical will do secret things w/o community cooperation, release it, and then want that cooperation ;)
[06:35] <nixternal> and those secret things are to community projects
[06:35] <Hobbsee> nixternal: in some cases, yeah
[06:35] <nixternal> DaSkreech: you can have mine :)
[06:36] <DaSkreech> I think as far as I'll go is a user :)
[06:37] <nixternal> !nixternal
[06:37] <ubotu> Oh no!  The pointy-clicky Vista lover has arrived!
[06:37] <nixternal> that has Hobbsee's name written all over it
[06:37] <Hobbsee> hehe
[06:37] <Jucato> !-nixternal
[06:37] <ubotu> nixternal has no aliases - added by Hobbsee on 2007-05-31 09:32:53
[06:37] <Jucato> :D
[06:37] <nixternal> anything with "pointy" in it, well that is Hobbsee's fault
[06:37] <nixternal> ahhh
[06:37] <Hobbsee> hah
[06:37] <nixternal> Jucato: you just snitched!
[06:37] <DaSkreech> !hobbsee
[06:37] <ubotu> I phear the stick so shhhhh
[06:37] <nixternal> hahaha
[06:38] <Jucato> !-hobbsee
[06:38] <ubotu> hobbsee has no aliases - added by ompaul on 2007-05-10 14:42:04
[06:38] <Hobbsee> ooh, ompaul hey?
[06:38] <Jucato> heh :)
[06:38] <nixternal> thanks Jucato for teaching me how to find out who did what
[06:38] <Jucato> heheh let's all thank Seveas for that :D
[06:39] <DaSkreech> yeah seveas is great :)
[06:39] <mhb> Riddell: is your branch the best for branching off or is one of kwwii's better?
[06:40] <mhb> Riddell: for the "unstable" kubuntu website branch
[06:40] <Riddell> mhb: my main one is the one that's in use, the rest are merged or dead
[06:40] <mhb> okay, great
[06:40] <Riddell> mhb: main is actually a mirror of the branch at http://kubuntu.org
[06:40] <Riddell> you can also just branch directly from there
[06:41] <mhb> Riddell: Format <RepositoryFormat6> for http://kubuntu.org/.bzr/ is deprecated - please use 'bzr upgrade' to get better performance
[06:42] <mhb> Riddell: you might know that
[06:42] <Riddell> the server is still on breezy
[06:45] <mhb> Riddell: is is okay to upgrade the branch?
[06:45] <mhb> Riddell: won't you have trouble merging it later?
[06:47] <Riddell> mhb: not sure actually
[06:47] <Riddell> I'd recommend not upgrading incase it does cause problems
[06:47] <mhb> Riddell: okay
[06:53] <nixternal> oh Hobbsee, you have everyone and their mother doing the !nixternal thing :)
[06:53] <Hobbsee> nixternal: *grin*
[06:53] <Hobbsee> surely not...
[06:53] <nixternal> hahaha, the chicagoans are going nuts with it
[06:55] <DaSkreech> Riddell: Do you have a IRL contact for Mez?
[07:10] <mhb> Riddell: pushed, https://code.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/kubuntu-website/trunk
[07:10] <mhb> Riddell: I'll just add the Experimental label and some necessary information
[07:24] <mhb> Riddell: one more thing - I remember a page which was set up for the experiments on kubuntu.org artwork. Does that server/page still exist? Can we tweak it so that it updates from the "trunk" bzr branch?
[07:24] <Hobbsee> night all
[07:24] <mhb> Hobbsee: nighty night
[07:25] <DaSkreech> Night Hobbsee
[07:25] <Hobbsee> :(
[07:25] <Hobbsee> * :)
[07:27] <Riddell> DaSkreech: whois thekatapult.org.uk has a postal address
[07:27] <DaSkreech> Riddell: thanks
[07:27] <Riddell> mhb: I don't remember such a page
[07:28] <mhb> no? hmm... ryanakca, do you remember?
[07:29] <mhb> how open do we want to be about creating a new look for kubuntu.org?
[07:30] <mhb> I remember people posting e-mails with suggestions for k.org
[07:31] <mhb> hmm, that question is probably for kwwii, as he is the artwork superman
[07:32] <Riddell> he already has a possible design
[07:33] <Riddell> trying to remember where it is
[07:34] <DaSkreech> Looks like Fedora 8 will ship with KDE4
[07:36] <apokryphos> like most others I think they'll end up having to wait and see how things are closer to the time
[07:37] <DaSkreech> yeah theyship like 5 days after the proposed debut of KDE4
[07:39] <apachelogger> lol
[07:39] <apachelogger> makes ultimate sense to me :P
[07:39] <apachelogger> AFK
[07:39] <nosrednaekim> yeah.... KDE4 is going to be released a couple days after gutsy. What are you going to use?
[07:40] <Riddell> kde 3 with 4 available
[07:40] <Tm_T> KDE3 until release and then as usual, kubuntu.org repository, is my guess
[07:40] <nosrednaekim> ah.. ok. makes sense.
[07:41] <Tm_T> Riddell: was there still any idea about kde4 enabled iso ?
[07:41] <Riddell> Tm_T: sure, we'll do that when 4.0 is out
[07:41] <Tm_T> lovely
[07:42] <nosrednaekim> cool. from what i've seen, kubuntu is one of the top distros for quickly delivering kde4. (only gentoo being faster)
[07:43] <Tm_T> gentoo is faster?
[07:43] <Tm_T> ah right, they got stuff available before release, those cheaters
[07:43] <nosrednaekim> quicker at getting the releases since its sourcebased
[07:43] <Tm_T> doesn't matter
[07:43] <DaSkreech> Unless of course that's LTS :)
[07:44] <Tm_T> DaSkreech: looks like it
[07:44] <DaSkreech> then it's futrther
[07:44] <nosrednaekim> wow.. really? that long?
[07:44] <DaSkreech> nosrednaekim: note by default
[07:44] <nosrednaekim> why,because guidance has to be remade?
[07:44] <DaSkreech> having it as an option will come earlier
[07:45] <DaSkreech> maybe having two ISOs one with KDE4 and one with KDEOld
[07:45] <DaSkreech> With KDEold being the blessed one :)
[07:45] <DaSkreech> KDE4 is really young. Most apps won't make the jump
[07:45] <nosrednaekim> right.
[07:45] <Tm_T> nosrednaekim: KDE release sources are distributed before release to packagers IIRC so if Gentoo wait release, they are no faster than other distros
[07:46] <nosrednaekim> Tm_T: ok.
[07:47] <nosrednaekim> I'm just curious, is there a kdevelop for KDE4 that will run in KDE3?
[07:49] <nixternal> nosrednaekim: you use kdevelop3, but you set it to use kde4 source directories and qt4
[07:50] <nixternal> http://techbase.kde.org/Getting_Started/Set_up_KDE_4_for_development#KDevelop
[07:50] <nosrednaekim> nixternal: ah ok.. thanks.
[07:50] <nixternal> note that this tutorial requires you have have kde4 built according to the kde4 guidelines
[07:51] <nosrednaekim> nixternal: I have the kubuntu package. is that good enough?
[07:51] <nixternal> unfortunately it isn't
[07:51] <nixternal> http://techbase.kde.org/Getting_Started/Build/KDE4
[07:51] <nixternal> that is how you want to build out kde4 for development
[07:52] <nosrednaekim> nixternal: well... i'm glad a have a dual core processor then :-D
[07:52] <nixternal> hehe, it isn't to bad, just open up konsole and let it go
[07:52] <nixternal> it isn't super intensive..I was able to compile and build accordingly
[07:53] <nosrednaekim> I'm tempted to say "if you can do it......" lol, but I don't know.;)
[07:54] <nixternal> it isn't all that difficult actually...you just need to read the directions thoroughly
[07:55] <nosrednaekim> ok.
[07:55] <nixternal> my only thing, is the .bashrc example source they show that you need to add to your new kde-devel user, the cmakekde section should add the -GKdevelop to the cmake line, that way there when you get kdevelop setup, you don't have to rebuild everything
[07:55] <nosrednaekim> i'll try. thanks.
[07:56] <nosrednaekim> ok. thanks for the tip.
[08:19] <hunger> The user listing in kdm looks really ugly. How can I get rid of it again?
[08:20] <nixternal> how did you get the user listing?
[08:20] <nixternal> heh, I guess if you knew the answer to that, then you would be able to get rid of it I guess :)
[08:21] <Riddell> it was in today's update
[08:21] <nixternal> ahhhhh
[08:21] <hunger> nixternal: Today's update...
[08:21] <nixternal> shows you that I have yet turned on the gutsy box
[08:23] <Riddell> nixternal: are you going to do a tribe 1 page?
[08:24] <nixternal> Riddell: funny you should ask :) people from Ubuntu and Xubuntu just asked me the same, and how to do it
[08:24] <nixternal> I am working locally, as to avoide the /. and digg junk for the moment
[08:24] <nixternal> they seem to enjoy making it hard for me to edit the wiki pages when they post their stories
[08:24] <Riddell> doesn't Ubuntu know how to do it?
[08:25] <nixternal> well the marketing crowd does it, and they cut the worst non-default looking screenshots known to man
[08:25] <nixternal> then again, I think they dislike the Kubuntu pages looking better :)
[08:26] <Riddell> hunger: there's no easy way to turn it off, it's part of the theme.  if we keep the user list we should probably have a second theme available without it
[08:27] <nixternal> that makes sense
[08:27] <nixternal> Riddell: OK, now that you brought up the release page, what do you want to see highlighted for tribe 1?
[08:28] <DaSkreech> nixternal: they seem to complain anytime that kubuntu comes out looking good
[08:28] <nixternal> I have noticed..but hey, what can we say, we have a group of people who make kubuntu always look good :)
[08:28] <hunger> Riddell: It looks *really* ugly with lots of users.
[08:30] <DaSkreech> hunger: Maybe it can auto detect a threshhold and move to somethign else ?
[08:32] <rbrunhuber> Is there a list of version which should be included in gutsy? Like Kernel 2.6.22 and xorg 7.3?
[08:33] <nixternal> jeesh, todays update is a pita
[08:33] <nixternal> -f installs, --configure -a, dist-upgrade, -f install, and so on
[08:34] <hunger> rbrunhuber: Dunno.
[08:34] <nixternal> guidance doesn't update it seems
[08:34] <hunger> nixternal: Worked fine for me... apart from guidance and a couple of other things:-)
[08:35] <nixternal> ya, guidance is the one giving me problems
[08:39] <Riddell> new guidance is still compiling on i386
[08:41] <yuriy> is there a good tutorial somewhere for using pyqt4 with designer?
[08:42] <Riddell> use designer same as normal, load the .ui as done by software-properties-kde for example
[08:42] <Riddell> no compiling necessary
[08:43] <yuriy> hmm oh that helps, i was looking for an example
[08:44] <Riddell> you need to create a widget then load the .ui file onto it (same in qt 4 for c++, a bit different from qt 3 style)
[08:46] <yuriy> do i still need to do that if the .ui is a main window?
[08:47] <nixternal> you need to convert the .ui file
[08:47] <nixternal> pyuic4 foo.ui > foo.py
[08:48] <yuriy> i do? i thought that happens at run time, as Riddell just said
[08:48] <Riddell> nixternal: naw, that's the old way to do it
[08:48] <nixternal> ahh, thanks
[08:48] <Riddell> you can if you want, but I don't see an advantage over just loading
[08:48] <nixternal> well that rocks then, I don't have to do that anymore..woohoo
[08:48] <yuriy> hehe
[08:49] <Riddell> yuriy: yes, even if it's a main window.  software-properties has a widget which is an overloaded QWidget and in the constructor it loads the ui file into itself
[08:49] <yuriy> ok
[08:49] <Riddell> which does seem a bit more complex than qt 3's way that just gives you the object, but I'm sure they have a good reason
[08:50] <yuriy> now to figure out how to run this thing.. seems to be put together a little funny. i think i better try and ask again
[09:07] <yuriy> for that matter, how do i run software-properties, from the source?
[09:08] <yuriy> nvm, figured it out
[09:08] <DaSkreech> hunger: what should it do with only one user?
[09:11] <hunger> DaSkreech: Either autologin for the lazy person or a normal non-information-leaky no-userlist login dialog for the security paranoid guy.
[09:12] <DaSkreech> Riddell: What's the idea behind the install?
[09:12] <DaSkreech> Riddell: as few questions as possible?
[09:13] <Riddell> DaSkreech: which install?
[09:14] <DaSkreech> Riddell: a (K)ubuntu install
[09:14] <DaSkreech> is there a reason that the desktop install doesn't pose any questions?
[09:15] <Riddell> it does ask questions
[09:15] <DaSkreech> or I guess is there a way to start it and configure something outside of the partitons?
[09:15] <DaSkreech> Well user name and such
[09:17] <Riddell> settings up the user account is the last step
[09:17] <DaSkreech> Would it be ok to put a selection on that step for a userlist or not?
[09:17] <DaSkreech> hunger: at that point I think that the user should make the choice :)
[09:17] <Riddell> jings no
[09:18] <yuriy> i don't think that's needed in the installation, but the option in the login manager kcm should work
[09:18] <hunger> DaSkreech: Yeap. But the user-list thingy is definitly what the user does not want...
[09:19] <DaSkreech> hunger: what your user does not want :)
[09:19] <hunger> DaSkreech: A userlist containing one user... it is OK if you are not interested in security and have a couple of users only.
[09:20] <DaSkreech> hunger: that may be what some people are interested in
[09:20] <DaSkreech> A computer for their children
[09:20] <DaSkreech> for example
[09:20] <hunger> DaSkreech: Yes, it is great for a family.  Only have my laptop left.
[10:15] <hunger> DaSkreech: ... the servers and the other boxes now officially belong to my wife.
[10:15] <DaSkreech> the bonfire worked?
[10:15] <DaSkreech> oh ok :)
[10:16] <hunger> DaSkreech: we gave lots of boxes away to friends and family. We only kept a couple of boxes and we now have a cellar.
[10:22] <fdoving> yuriy: you can use tr() with qt.
[10:52] <Lure_> Riddell: new guidance is still not good: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/24311/
[11:15] <Riddell> Lure_: works for me
[11:16] <Riddell> probably because I didn't have the old version installed
[11:16] <Lure_> Riddell: will remove old version now
[11:16] <Riddell> I'll put in a replaces
[11:17] <Lure_> Riddell: ype, it works now
[11:21] <Lure_> Riddell: /usr/bin/guidance-power-manager: 2: /usr/share/python-support/guidance-power-manager/guidance-power-manager.py: not found
[11:21] <Lure_> Riddell: if I start from command line :-(
[11:22] <Lure_> Riddell: system settings modeles work properly
[11:23] <Lure_> Riddell: new path is /usr/share/python-support/kde-guidance-powermanager/guidance-power-manager.py
[11:23] <xRaich[o] 2x> is there a package for the kde3 api in kubuntu?
[11:23] <lucky_lucas> xRaich[o] 2x: do you mean kde3 dev-packages ?
[11:25] <xRaich[o] 2x> i don't really know what to install am quite new to debian based systems. but kdevelop assistant is complaining that there are no files to show
[11:25] <lucky_lucas> ok
[11:27] <xRaich[o] 2x> that's what i am searching for : /usr/share/doc/kde/HTML/en/kdelibs-apidocs
[11:28] <lucky_lucas> xRaich[o] 2x: http://women.kde.org/articles/tutorials.php
[11:28] <lucky_lucas> this a good point to start
[11:29] <xRaich[o] 2x> ah ok so no package ;) ok that helps a lot
[11:30] <lucky_lucas> in fact kdelib-apidocs is a documentaion api and kdevelop complains of missing kde developement files
[11:30] <lucky_lucas> isn't is ?
[11:30] <xRaich[o] 2x> yep it's complaining
[11:31] <Riddell> Lure_: ok, let me fix
[11:31] <nixternal> wo0t...gutsy exceptions in vmware
[11:32] <lucky_lucas> xRaich[o] 2x: you may want to apt-get install some of the dev packages ?
[11:33] <xRaich[o] 2x> lucky_lucas: already did that but the files in question were not in them
[11:34] <lucky_lucas> ok so following the tuto will surely help you to figure out what you're mmissing
[11:34] <nixternal> anyone else have icons on the desktop for gutsy after a daily install?
[11:35] <Riddell> nixternal: what are you testing?
[11:35] <nixternal> I just installed the current daily alternate cd
[11:38] <Arby> nixternal: do you mean the home, system and trash icons?
[11:38] <Riddell> nixternal: please report on https://isotesting.stgraber.org/isotesting/iso/Kubuntu
[11:38] <Arby> I see those
[11:38] <nixternal> Arby: yes
[11:38] <nixternal> Riddell: will do
[11:39] <Arby> are they not supposed to be there?
[11:39] <Riddell> Arby: we shouldn't have any icons on the desktop (except install for live CD)
[11:39] <Arby> ah, well we do I didn't realise it was a bug
[11:39] <Arby> nixternal: if you file it I can confirm
[11:42] <ryanakca> mhb: the address for the test site?
[11:43] <ryanakca> oh, he isn't there
[11:44] <ryanakca> Riddell: d'you know if mhb was looking for the address to it? (I'm guessing, based on the conversation earlier)
[11:46] <nixternal> Arby: do you get a different KDM theme as well?
[11:46] <Arby> KDM == login screen?
[11:46] <Arby> if yes, then yes I do
[11:47] <Arby> I assumed it was deliberate
[11:47] <Riddell> what do you get?
[11:48] <Arby> I have list of users each with an icon on the left and the the login and password boxes on the right
[11:48] <Arby> sorry can't describe it better than that
[11:48] <Riddell> and kubuntu theme?
[11:49] <DaSkreech> Riddell: did you give an answer on the userlist question?
[11:49] <Arby> default (I think, currently in the middle of another install test)
[11:49] <Riddell> DaSkreech: what was the question?
[11:50] <Arby> nixternal: what kubuntu theme do you get?
[11:50] <DaSkreech> Would it be acceptable for the user to select between a userlist KDM or a plain one on the screen where they input the username?
[11:50] <nixternal> I am not ruling out vmware being the issue..I get some default kdm block theme
[11:50] <nixternal> I gotta go...I am late
[11:50] <nixternal> later
[11:51] <Arby> vmware seems less likely, I get this on real hardware
[11:52] <Arby> Riddell: can I get a screenshot on the kdm screen? and how?
[11:52] <Riddell> DaSkreech: sure, of course, if we do keep the user list theme (which isn't certain) we'll include one without the list too
[11:52] <Riddell> Arby: no easy way that I know of
[11:52] <Riddell> I've spent hours trying to screenshot kdm
[11:53] <Riddell> nixternal: what kdm theme do you get?
[11:53] <DaSkreech> Riddell: ok. methinks that's the easiest way.  Might need some sort of preview though :(
[11:53] <Arby> OK I won't spend more hours then
[11:53] <Arby> [22:50]  <nixternal> I am not ruling out vmware being the issue..I get some default kdm block theme
[11:53] <Arby> [22:50]  <nixternal> I gotta go...I am late
[11:53] <Arby> Riddell: ^^
[11:53] <Riddell> DaSkreech: the kdm theme module has a preview
[11:53] <Arby> he's gone I think
[11:53] <DaSkreech> Of course it's just to integrate it in the install script
[11:54] <Arby> when this install finishes I'll check it out and file a bug
[11:58] <Lure_> Riddell: I still have some default kde theme for kdm (after todays updates)
[11:59] <Lure_> Riddell: but this is upgrade from feisty and not clean install from daily cd
[11:59] <Lure_> Riddell: and thanks for fixing syssettings crash and lost+found icons
[12:00] <Arby> rebooting now, lets see what we get :)
[12:02] <Arby> Riddell: kubuntu theme is the default as I thought
[12:02] <Arby> but with extra icons
[12:04] <Riddell> Arby: groovy
[12:06] <Arby> Riddell: so should I file it as a bug against kdm?
[12:10] <Arby> Riddell: also, should knetwork-manager appear in the systray automatically at login?
[12:11] <Arby> (because it doesn't)


[16:43] <Kilos> o/
[16:45] <Na3iL> \o
[16:45] <Kilos> hehe
[16:45]  * Na3iL is everywhere xD
[16:45] <Kilos> haha
[16:46] <Kilos> pavlushka is worse than you
[16:46] <Na3iL> hahaha :D
[16:46] <Kilos> he is every every everywhere
[16:47] <Kilos> applying for membershaip on the first


[12:03] <wasabi_> I have no idea.
[12:04] <wasabi_> Ya'll are trying to convince us to choose winbind, for very valid reasons.
[12:04] <wasabi_> But of course, it's called 'WINbind' for a very valid reason.
[12:04] <abartlet> I'll assert that for sensible values of 'something else', that samba is very likely to be involved anyway
[12:04] <wasabi_> Sure, any any networking involving any windows machine, Samba will be present.
[12:05] <abartlet> so, is it worth the effort to design the perfect system, for the network that does not exist?
[12:05] <wasabi_> So, what I'm thinking of, is the pure Unix situation... Unix workstation authing against unix server.
[12:05] <wasabi_> Also a good question.
[12:05] <abartlet> do such networks exist, in a scale worth considering these days?  Isn't there always one windows desktop, to put a fly in the ointment?
[12:05] <wasabi_> I want to know how far of a stretch is it to think that winbind could be extended to have a AD backend, and a plain kerberos-ldap backend.
[12:05] <wasabi_> And form a real replacement for NSS
[12:06] <abartlet> perhaps this is a more interesting line of enquiry:
[12:06] <abartlet> design a replacement for the ticket management components of winbindd
[12:06] <abartlet> sort of like kcm, I think
[12:07] <wasabi_> I guess my vision is apps would talk to *bind directly.
[12:07] <wasabi_> Avoiding the NSS layer.
[12:07] <abartlet> that would be a very poor solution
[12:07] <wasabi_> Why?
[12:07] <abartlet> you need the plugin layer, and nss is the best we have
[12:08] <abartlet> I liked your idea of extending nss
[12:09] <wasabi_> I think politically that would fall flat on it's face.
[12:09] <abartlet> why?
[12:10] <wasabi_> Might be a POSIX issue out there... if we add a 'realm' table.
[12:10] <wasabi_> Or all those new query APIs we would need.
[12:10] <wasabi_> People would choose not to use them, for compatilbity to !linux
[12:11] <abartlet> the number of applications that need to use the new API?
[12:11] <wasabi_> The async APIs, I'd hope everything.
[12:11] <wasabi_> UI anyways.
[12:11] <abartlet> sure, now you have cut things down *a lot*
[12:12] <abartlet> only UI, and I suspect only GUI applications will want/need to use the new API
[12:12] <abartlet> in particular, ACL editors are the major case
[12:12] <wasabi_> Yeah, well, I'd hope a "drop down of user lists" changes to a box similar to what's in windows, everywhere it's present.
[12:12] <wasabi_> Which lets you search specific realms, etc.
[12:13] <wasabi_> so you can type somebody's NAME, not just their username.
[12:13] <abartlet> it's not present in many places, and is a common GUI element in windows
[12:13] <abartlet> for good reason
[12:13] <wasabi_> Sure. They'd be a single shared widget for it.
[12:15] <wasabi_> I dunno. Do you think it'd be easier to build all the cool stuff into NSS, or build out winbind to have backend modules.
[12:15] <wasabi_> And continue to use nss_winbind, just like now.
[12:22] <tmh_> that's destroying the whole idea of NSS. NSS is supposed to be the thing with backends.
[12:33] <ajforgue> Is winbind only around to support Linux if the AD admin can't or won't extend the schema to support POSIX fields (SFU, ad4unix)?
[12:34] <abartlet> no, it does far more than that
[12:34] <wasabi_> Other things than schema apply.
[12:34] <wasabi_> password changing, host kerberos maintence, etc.
[12:34] <abartlet> and it does a far better job than just running nss_ldap on a client node
[12:34] <wasabi_> creating the computer object on join, caching, etc
[12:34] <abartlet> we take advantage of the extra feilds, if present
[12:35] <wasabi_> it does site locality stuff now too right?
[12:35] <abartlet> yep
[12:35] <ajforgue> got it, never used winbind before, I've always extended the schema
[12:35] <wasabi_> It's a large base of logic which we really want, for non-AD, too.
[03:26] <Burgundavia> ajmitch: you around?
[06:55] <ajmitch> Burgundavia: just back now
[06:56] <Burgundavia> ajmitch: put n-a up for disucssion, but I wonder if we can merge n-a and that eudubuntu spec
[06:57] <nkassi> Anyone here is an AD expert ?
[06:58] <nkassi> or knows AD a bit ?
[06:59] <Burgundavia> some, but knowledge is rusty and old
[06:59] <Burgundavia> but my, rather
[07:00] <ajmitch> Burgundavia: n-a covers more than just the edubuntu stuff though - there's quite a bit of overlap, but n-a covers the pam/winbind/nss stuff as well
[07:00] <ajmitch> putting n-a up for discussion may not be useful for the spec scheduler
[07:01] <nkassi> Ok, so OpenLDAP has .schema files but AD seems to have schema definitions stored within the directory is that correct ?
[07:01] <Burgundavia> ajmitch: you can pulli t off disuccsion then
[08:13] <wasabi_> who's here?
[08:14] <SimonAnibal> I am
[08:14] <fernando> let'me see... yes, I'm here
[08:43] <robertj> I be here


[00:34] <Bashing-om> UWN: Issue823 up for review and final edits - Hectically interrupted; proof reading required :D https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/ubuntu-weekly-newsletter-issue-823/41646
[00:35] <guiverc> thanks Bashing-om , i'm part way thru reading now  (hub) .. I'll refresh
[00:35] <Bashing-om> :D
[00:40] <guiverc> Bashing-om, the matrix index one, would s/Mauro Gaspari documents the resources on the Ubuntu Matrix Project/Mauro Gaspari documents the available resources on the Ubuntu Matrix Project/   (ie. addition of 'available' ..)
[00:40]  * guiverc still not really happy with 'documents the resources'.. but i recall my alternatives were all longer..
[00:44] <Bashing-om> guiverc: Yeah adding available makes better, doing :D
[00:45]  * guiverc is still reading.. and had left room after my last ^comment to refill my drinky-mug...
[00:47] <Bashing-om> guiverc: Moar Coffee here !
[00:47]  * guiverc didn't add coffee in mine... mostly chocolate and nestle banana quik I think I used
[00:49] <Bashing-om> guiverc: Back in my hurried days - was lots of Ovaltine in my milk :P
[00:49] <guiverc> Question(s)... I just read "We’re told 18 projects have been selected"  ... Q:  I fear I use "We're" too often, does it appear that way when you read... and 18 or eighteen... I like reading eighteen, but 18 is shorter and often think maybe better in UWN... any thoughts?
[00:50] <guiverc> :)   Yeah I used to like ovaltine.. I buy nestle milo as cheaper (very light chocki & mostly malted drink; I do add chocki to it often)
[00:52] <Bashing-om> guiverc: Our esteemed senior editor advises the long writting - eighteen - best I recall. editing :)
[00:53] <guiverc> 18 was used twice in that one.
[00:53] <guiverc> season of kde projects
[00:54] <guiverc> "(share WPA3 {SAE})" feels unusual to me, is [share WP3 (SAE)] better? or just nested brackets (what I think you tried to avoid)
[00:55] <guiverc> s/what Wine does for/what Wine does,/  I believe (wine 9.0..)
[00:55] <Bashing-om> guiverc: Author has it too as "18". In this case good to leave IMO.
[00:55] <guiverc> :)
[00:57] <guiverc> It looks like we should remove a \n in "Canonical Ubuntu: Inside Operator Day" quoted bit
[00:57] <Bashing-om> guiverc: I had considered "[]" brackets ^ - but such is generally construed as an editorial addition. But yeah looks strange as is.
[00:58] <guiverc> whatever you're happy with... I'm just saying what I see  (right & wrong..)
[01:03] <guiverc> In the Subscribe... as you've put a Mastodon: & Telegram: before additional links; should we add Facebook: & Twitter: to others (I'm loathe to put X though instead of twitter)
[01:04] <guiverc> I suspect all should have it, or none should  (and if it's X, I'd prefer none I believe)
[01:06] <guiverc> I've finished read thru... ^ all I noted/saw, looks good.
[01:08] <Bashing-om> guiverc: Well, the others hace their tirtles in the URL link; Where as Mastodon and Telegram do not. Readers made aware of what the added links are.
[01:08] <guiverc> fair enough... maybe an alterantive is (Mastodon) & (Telegram) AFTER the link
[01:09] <guiverc> at the front it makes it feel like a formatting choice (to me)...
[01:09] <Bashing-om> titles - One of these days I will fix my ole mechanical keyboard - I will never grow to like this keyboard @
[01:09] <Bashing-om> guiverc: making them as suffixes :)
[01:10] <guiverc> yeah...  I lost my standing mecahnical when I switched to this newer & smaller box... larger model M just felt unstable, so it's a crappy newer dell thingy now (I do have a model M/machanical as a sitting keyboard still)
[01:19] <Bashing-om> guiverc: Ho kay - we go play catchup elsewheres now :P
[01:19] <guiverc> :)
[01:20] <guiverc> & thanks Bashing-om
[01:22] <Bashing-om> guiverc: And a big thanks to you - will not happen without you :D
[01:22] <guiverc> :)
[19:05] -ubottu:#ubuntu-news- ::omg!ubuntu:: Ubuntu Pro Packages in ‘Software Updater’ — Annoying, or Necessary? @ https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2024/01/ubuntu-pro-software-updater-issue
[20:03] <Bashing-om> UWN: Pulling WIP/WIKI - log checked and no further edits are known. Will start the push soonest.
[20:17] <Bashing-om> UWN: M/L is away - Posting to the Forums next.
[20:35] <Bashing-om> UWN: Forums posting done - makeing a Mastodon blog up next :D
[20:43] <guiverc> https://fridge.ubuntu.com/2024/01/22/ubuntu-weekly-newsletter-issue-823/
[20:50] <guiverc> posted 823 to twitter, telegram. (mewe)
[21:07] <Bashing-om> Bloged :D
[21:24] <guiverc> uwn 823 shared to fb too
[21:31] <Bashing-om> UWN: Issue824 off and running :P
[21:44] <guiverc> :) & thanks Bashing-om
[21:45] <Bashing-om> guiverc: Clean up and repeat :P
[21:46] <guiverc> :)   (you do clean up before the publish only now.. it's copy & repeat mostly now)
[21:47] <Bashing-om> guiverc: Clen the Local stuff to make my partition all pretty again :P
[21:49] <guiverc> :)    (I only clean when my system won't let me login in, or apply upgrades...out of space on $HOME or /)
[21:59] <Bashing-om> Oh guiverc - I so hate when that happens --- me exercise an once of prevention :P


[01:28] <bkerensa> pleia2: are you around by chance?
[01:28] <pleia2> bkerensa: yeah
[01:28] <bkerensa> pleia2: Do you run Xubuntu 11.10 on any of your systems?
[01:29] <pleia2> yep
[01:29] <bkerensa> pleia2: When you have some free time might you be interested in running "chromium-browser gmail.com" from terminal and letting me know if you encounter a crash
[01:29] <bkerensa> :)
[01:30] <pleia2> I don't use chromium-browser
[01:30] <pleia2> regular one from the repos?
[01:30] <bkerensa> pleia2: yeah :) I'm trying to reproduce a bug so I can triage it
[01:30] <bkerensa> :D
[01:31] <pleia2> so, version 17.0.963.65~r124586-0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS> ?
[01:31] <bkerensa> yep Package: chromium-browser 17.0.963.65~r124586-0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>
[01:31] <pleia2> ok, I can install it real quick
[01:32] <bkerensa> chromium should crash versus launch gmail if the reporter is precise in his bug report
[01:32] <pleia2> works fine for me
[01:32] <bkerensa> hmm
[01:32] <bkerensa> ok
[01:33] <bkerensa> very odd... It doesnt reproduce for me either but I use Ubuntu (same version of Chromium)
[01:33] <bkerensa> Bug #949439
[01:33] <philipballew> i have xfce installed. I can try it
[01:35] <pleia2> I'm on amd64, I can try it on i386 in a vm
[01:35] <pleia2> (the reporter is on i386)
[01:35] <bkerensa> I'm also asking for a backtrace
[01:36] <pleia2> yeah, I suspect this is something environmental tbh
[01:36] <philipballew> yeah, im on 64
[01:39] <pleia2> nope, can't replicate on 32-bit either
[01:40] <bkerensa> Hmm kk thanks for the help
[01:40] <bkerensa> :)
[01:40] <pleia2> sure, good luck
[03:27] <kdub> Hola all
[04:20] <Faqtotum> ubudroidy: a droid running ubuntu?
[17:21] <philipballew> UDS  Sponsorship approved today, Oakland here I come.
[17:46] <nhaines> philipballew: congrats!
[17:47] <philipballew> philipballew, Thanks! now I just have to figure out where I will be the weekend before so I can travel there. If it's in Oakland, I wonder if I can just drive there and get remembered.
[17:48] <philipballew> actually, I should look for a ride. parking probably costs a l0ot
[17:48] <philipballew> *lot
[17:52] <philipballew> scratch that. I'll ride my bike. What could go wrong
[17:59] <nhaines> It could hail.
[18:00] <philipballew> may weather is actually known to do weird things like that
[18:18] <bkerensa> philipballew: me too
[18:18] <bkerensa> ^
[18:19] <philipballew> bkerensa, Its gona be pretty awesome!
[18:19] <philipballew> it should be good. Normally I pack heat to a Linux conference in case a distro war breaks out, but in this case, I'll be packing heat because it's Oakland.
[18:35] <jyo> boo Raspberry Pi manufacturing delay: http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/781
[18:36] <bkerensa> oh yeah its going to be warm in may
[18:36] <bkerensa> :D


[00:00] <krutoileshii> Yep, I tried replacing the parts that check for 2.6 to 3 and it compiled, but it failed to install
[00:01] <krutoileshii> Not sure what I missed yet, I'll do some investigating tomorrow. Thanks for the help.
[00:24] <slangasek> hallyn_: heh; vm-new tries to bring the VM up with virtio networking, which fails with 'failed to find romfile "pxe-virtio.bin"'.  are there some other options I'm supposed to be using?
[00:29] <jfi> Hello, I would like to know if a fix to bug #811003 is acceptable for Oneiric, or this kind of "bug" (more a feature) is generally delayed to the next release. I just want to know whether is usefull that I provide a debdiff or just wait the next sync from debian.
[00:30] <hallyn_> slangasek: oh?  that should spit an error, but not fail
[00:30] <hallyn_> slangasek: pxe-virtio is only for pxeboot over virtio
[00:31] <slangasek> hallyn_: ah.  well, I'm looking at logs because what I'm experiencing is that the VM never comes up after reboot
[00:31] <hallyn_> virsh list doesn't show it running?
[00:32] <slangasek> no, it *does* show it running
[00:32] <hallyn_> oh just ssh to it or gvncviewer :0
[00:32] <slangasek> but it's not meaningfully "up"
[00:32] <hallyn_> drat
[00:34] <slangasek> oh, it does seem to respond to ssh, hmm
[00:34] <slangasek> but vm-new doesn't finish because vm-ping fails?
[00:34] <hallyn_> yeah the reporting isn't perfect at vm-new.  but the big win with vm-tools is the vm-clone command
[00:34] <hallyn_> i don't use vm-new all that much
[00:34] <hallyn_> but clone every day
[00:34] <slangasek> well, I'm not sure if I should ^C this vm-new command...?
[00:34] <hallyn_> yes
[00:35] <hallyn_> look in / in the guest,
[00:35] <hallyn_> if there is still a post-install.sh, run it as root, otherwise you're done
[00:35] <hallyn_> so, your initramfs has 'udev.bak', will it run that?
[00:38] <cjwatson> jfi: it's too late for UI adjustments at this point, so we're probably best just taking the next sync from Debian in precise
[00:39] <cjwatson> jfi: although thank you for caring
[00:39] <jfi> cjwatson, thanks for the response
[00:42] <hallyn_> slangasek: scripts/init-bottom/udev is still not getting to the ps -ef (even when I add '|| /bin/true' after the pkill)
[00:43] <hallyn_> oops, missed the other line, lemme try a || true after udevadm control --exit
[00:43] <slangasek> hallyn_: Eduard points out on the bug that udevadm control --exit also exits non-zero if it hits the timeout... so you need a || true after that as well, sorry
[00:43] <slangasek> right
[00:44] <slangasek> hallyn_: udev.bak?
[00:44] <hallyn_> yes, init-bottom/udev.bak existed in the initramfs.
[00:44] <slangasek> uh
[00:45] <slangasek> shouldn't be from anything I did
[00:45] <hallyn_> don't nkow how that happened
[00:45] <slangasek> but if it's executable, it'd try to run that as well
[00:45] <hallyn_> it was
[00:45] <hallyn_> probably i messed it up before
[00:53] <hallyn_> haha no /bin/true in initrd
[00:55] <slangasek> right, should just be called as 'true'
[00:55] <slangasek> (shell builtin)
[00:57] <slangasek> hallyn_: and what's the right way to attach to the console?
[00:57] <slangasek> 'virsh console' doesn't give me anything useful
[01:01] <slangasek> ah, of course, there's a separate 'vm-view' command for that - sigh, why is all this separate from virt-manager
[01:05] <slangasek> hallyn_: vm-view doesn't provide much console scrollback... recommendations?
[01:37] <hallyn_> slangasek: i usually just use gvncviewer and store logs to scp off later.  But https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SergeHallyn_libvirtserial   should work
[01:37] <hallyn_> I used to do that for early boot kernel debugging...  Of course your vm then needs to define ttyS0 as a serial port in boot cmdline
[01:41] <slangasek> hallyn_: got it, thanks
[01:55] <slangasek> hallyn_: this hang-on-tty-event thing is just weirding me out.  what's /proc/cmdline for these boots?
[01:55] <slangasek> i.e., do you have a serial console configured when this happens?
[01:56] <slangasek> (because, once again, a tty is the last event processed)
[02:12] <hallyn_> slangasek: no, i don't change cmdline at all
[02:14] <hallyn_> slangasek: BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-3.0.0-12-server root=UUID=442917ed-fe24-4f00-858a-152dbae9db58 ro quiet
[02:15] <hallyn_> yeah no idea why those are always there
[02:51] <slangasek> hallyn_: huzzah, I've reproduced it here - just took me a bit to realize I'd done so, since the initramfs script is fixed here to not die on udevadm timeout :)
[02:51] <slangasek> (which means /dev actually gets mounted properly)
[04:22] <bbigras__> It seems someone edited the main page of the wiki to create his own page. I reverted it and emailed him about it. I hope I did it right because I drank a bit.
[04:23] <slangasek> bbigras__: looks good now, thanks
[04:24] <slangasek> history also shows someone attaching their apt debugging logs to the page, heh
[04:25] <bbigras__> slangasek: Oh that's why I wasn't able to revert to those revisions.
[04:25] <slangasek> yeah, they aren't content changes to the page :)
[06:06] <SanbarComputing> I need to prototype an app for a client that implements peer-to-peer messaging over the internet.  Is there a specific channel for networking and internet oriented development on IRC anywhere?
[06:11] <SanbarComputing> this messaging is not intended for chat or social networking type application, but to enable the application to do peer-to-peer message passing for the purposes of the application functionality unrelated to internet messaging or whatever - just uses the messaging mechanism to communicate between peers
[06:12] <SanbarComputing> indeed ...
[09:05] <slangasek> hggdh, Daviey, hallyn_, adam_g: udev accepted into oneiric with a fix for at least *one* bug.  Please retest at your convenience so we can see what's left that needs stomping...
[11:21] <Laney> doko_: what happened to the maintainer of gdc-4.6 in debian?
[11:22] <doko_> Laney, ?
[11:22] <Laney> http://packages.qa.debian.org/g/gdc-4.6.html
[11:23] <doko_> oops ...
[11:25] <Laney> motu just got mailed about the ftbfs
[13:53] <fishor_> hallo all, please can any one point me to some instruction, how to add patches to debin/patches. and is it possible to use git formated patches? I know i can edit every thing manually, but may be there is some script to do it
[13:56] <penguin42> fishor_: Most of them use quilt I think, so searching for stuff on quilt and debian often finds it
[14:01] <frafu> Hi, In order to test whether a python program is running under GDM, I used the following command:
[14:01] <frafu> if os.environ.has_key('RUNNING_UNDER_GDM'):
[14:02] <frafu> Can anybody please tell me whether there is a similar command for lightdm?
[14:03] <frafu> Maybe:
[14:03] <frafu> if os.environ.has_key('RUNNING_UNDER_LIGHTDM')
[14:03] <frafu> ?
[14:05] <fishor_> penguin42, thank you. i found this manual https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/PatchSystems
[15:42] <hggdh> slangasek: will do
[15:43] <hggdh> slangasek: will a new ISO be generated, or is it a 0-day?
[15:56] <infinity> hggdh: There will be new ISOs spun on Sunday.
[16:12] <hggdh> infinity: thank you
[16:13] <rhettnaxel> so...
[22:11] <bdrung> tumbleweed: around?
[22:17] <tumbleweed> bdrung: sort of
[22:17] <tumbleweed> (around, but up to my ears in pypy)
[22:19] <bdrung> tumbleweed: i pushed distro-info rearrangement
[22:19] <bdrung> tumbleweed: can you prepare the perl library for distro-info?
[22:25] <binarymutant> does xutils-dev provide xorg-macros?
[22:48] <tumbleweed> bdrung: pushed it, but haven't got to tests yet
[22:51] <bdrung> tumbleweed: now we have to split distro-info into three parts
[22:51] <tumbleweed> yeah
[22:52] <bdrung> tumbleweed: what's with the remove me item?
[22:53] <tumbleweed> oops, that was from debugging, sorry still have my head in pypy
[22:54] <bdrung> tumbleweed: do you want to update your ubuntu email address?
[22:57] <tumbleweed> bdrung: eh?
[22:58] <bdrung> tumbleweed: ubu VS deb mail
[22:59] <tumbleweed> aah, in copyright.
[22:59] <bdrung> tumbleweed: git grep it
[22:59] <bdrung> there are more places


[06:10] <Kilos> hi magespawn paddatrapper and other za peeps
[06:11] <magespawn> hey kilos
[06:11] <magespawn> how is it going?
[06:11] <Kilos> ok ty and you?
[06:11] <magespawn> all good thanks
[06:12] <Kilos> hows the job going
[06:12] <magespawn> going well thanks
[06:12] <Kilos> great
[06:14] <magespawn> hows the land downunder?\
[08:51] <Kilos> its down under
[09:01] <magespawn> hah
[09:01] <magespawn> when do you come back, or are back already?
[09:47] <Kilos> fly back 28 nov
[09:52] <magespawn> Too short really.
[10:33] <Kilos> yip wish it was another 6 months
[11:03] <Kilos> night all, sleep tight
[14:09] <JiHad> ardour


[00:04] <valorie> oooo, 4 greens in a row
[00:05] <valorie> perhaps we'll be able to beef up wily backports without much work?
[00:07] <yofel> probably, if someone finds the time for it
[00:07] <yofel> OTOH, that does not require me or scarlett, so that helps
[00:08] <valorie> right
[00:08] <valorie> LTS is first priority of course
[00:09] <yofel> I completely forgot how long it takes to build kdepim myself after we're pretty much delegating that to the buildds these days...
[00:13] <valorie> I imagine you can heat your house for awhile with that one
[00:48] <Glu111> now i managed to build the deb for the kf5 version of "kde-config-tablet" myself. are my changes to the package of any use for kubuntu?
[01:11] <sick_rimmit> valorie: Hi
[03:00] <rbetzen> sick_rimmit: still there?
[03:42] <fenris-> Login Error "Could not start dbus. Can you call qdbus?
[03:42] <fenris-> in xenial
[03:42] <fenris-> anyone can help?
[03:54] <fenris-> adding kubuntu-desktop on top of ubuntu-desktop
[09:49] <lordievader> Good morning.
[10:03] <yofel> moin
[10:04] <lordievader> Hey yofel, how are you doing?
[10:06] <yofel> tired after messing around with the other guys and with autopackagetests till 2AM, but otherwise fine
[10:06] <yofel> coffee helped ^^
[10:08] <lordievader> Did it work at 2AM?
[10:08] <yofel> the original setup? Hell no. We later tried out Big Blue Button, which worked... mostly well (the mostly being "flash"), but Rick said he'll write a post about that
[10:10] <lordievader> You guys did have fun... right?
[10:11] <yofel> oh sure, I mean, after 11PM we pretty much threw the idea about packaging out of the window and went trying out broadcasting solutions and ended up in the BBB demo session and just messed around for some 2h
[10:12] <lordievader> Nice ;)
[10:12] <lordievader> That is what matter. Having fun :)
[10:12] <yofel> that thing worked out rather well, except that flash cannot pick up my digital microphone signal, so I need a different solution for thata
[10:13] <lordievader> An html5/webrtc thing perhaps?
[10:14] <yofel> The BBB folks are working on that as well (they used flash so you can control the webcam streams individually, with html5 that doesn't work). We also need something that can do presentations, so a pure webrtc thing doesn't work
[10:16] <yofel> Rick also wants something that can actually record the session so that he can use it for the podcast
[10:16] <lordievader> That makes sense.
[10:26] <valorie> did something recently change that makes the korganizer daemon go insane and give me tons of notifications every MINUTE?
[10:26] <valorie> there seems no way to get rid of it
[10:27] <valorie> well, I uninstalled it, let's see if that works....
[10:28] <valorie> oh, 2:30am
[10:28] <valorie> should sleep
[11:51] <joelmo> Does sddm start plasma using  using the start script or systemd. And where is kubuntu development happening, I am abit lost on launchpad
[11:52] <joelmo> (asking about unstable kubuntu)
[11:53] <clivejo> there are a few unstable PPA's we use
[11:54] <clivejo> hopefully getting more and more stable as they work through the system!
[11:55] <clivejo> the bleeding edge stuff is called Kubuntu Continious Intregartion(KCI) which is taking source code directly from KDE git and packaging it
[11:56] <lordievader> joelmo: Sddm starts plasma itself.
[11:56] <clivejo> then we have testing PPA's
[11:58] <clivejo> yofel: would you have time to go through those few plasma packaging issues Im having with 5.5.5?
[11:59] <clivejo> kwin, libkscreen and plasma-workspace
[11:59] <clivejo> if I could get them fixed up, I could work on backporting it
[12:03] <joelmo> lordievader: at sddm I can choose which session I want to login to, here i login to kde5 using the script startkde, do you know if kubuntu uses same to start kde5. Sorry maybe i didn't mean to ask about starting plasma but kde.
[12:04] <yofel> clivejo: maybe later, I'm out for a while now
[12:04] <lordievader> joelmo: Plasma is the name of the KDE desktop ;)
[12:04] <yofel> joelmo: we use whatever is the kde default, which - I believe - is still startkde
[12:04] <clivejo> yofel: give me a shout if you have some "free" time
[12:05] <lordievader> joelmo: Anyhow, I think it is called somewhere from the cpp code. I am not too familiar with the sddm source code, but: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/wily/sddm/wily/files
[12:05] <yofel> sddm itself is started by systemd for that matter
[12:18] <mamarley> clivejo: So the bug that the patch I asked you to cherry-pick was supposed to fix is still in 5.5.5. :(
[12:19] <clivejo> got a link to the bug and patch?
[12:20] <mamarley> Let me find it again.
[12:24] <mamarley> clivejo: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=351777 and https://quickgit.kde.org/?p=plasma-workspace.git&a=commit&h=5a1a411b41f950e97d80ff7c898052fb6d02fb1a
[12:30] <clivejo> mamarley: I think when that was uploaded it used the 5.5.5 source
[12:30] <clivejo> there is now a <IP_ADDRESS> source
[12:30] <clivejo> which our scripts seem to ignore
[12:32] <clivejo> hummm
[12:32] <clivejo> <IP_ADDRESS> doesnt seem to be patched
[12:33] <clivejo> and the source has changed
[12:34] <clivejo> maybe they fixed this in a different way?
[12:40] <mamarley> clivejo: The bug report doesn't appear to say anything about it being fixed in 5.5.5 at all, only in 5.6.
[12:41] <clivejo> well there is 3 releases
[12:42] <clivejo> 5.5.5, <IP_ADDRESS> and <IP_ADDRESS>
[12:42] <clivejo> we packaged 5.5.5
[12:43] <clivejo> Ive packaged <IP_ADDRESS> and uploaded to staging
[12:45] <clivejo> mamarley: you know about packaging?
[12:45] <mamarley> clivejo: I know some things about it.  Probably not as much as you though.
[12:45] <clivejo> http://qa.kubuntu.co.uk/ppa-status/plasma/build_status_5.5.5_xenial.html
[12:46] <clivejo> go down to plasma-worspace
[12:46] <clivejo> and click show/hide for the orange one
[12:46] <clivejo> getting breaks-without-version lintian warnings
[12:47] <mamarley> clivejo: I see them.
[12:47] <clivejo> this is the control file - http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/pkg-kde/plasma/plasma-workspace.git/tree/debian/control?h=kubuntu_xenial_archive
[12:47] <clivejo> I dont know enough about this package to know what it breaks
[12:51] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[12:51] <clivejo> awwww some people are so nice!!
[12:51] <clivejo> "We wish to invest from $100,000 to $100 Million in any viable projects that your company requires funding on an investor capacity."
[12:52] <clivejo> hi BluesKaj
[12:52] <BluesKaj> hey clivejo
[12:53] <BluesKaj> then he owns you ;P
[12:53] <clivejo> were you are the party BluesKaj?
[12:53] <BluesKaj> not for long
[12:54] <BluesKaj> my video feed sucked
[12:54] <clivejo> did you try the bigbluebutton?
[12:55] <BluesKaj> no
[12:57] <clivejo> we got kinda side tracked
[12:58] <clivejo> and went looking for a soluation to the 10 max people on hangouts
[12:58] <clivejo> and came across Big Blue Button
[12:59] <clivejo> so we where laughing and joking on the demo server when this guy started to talk to us
[12:59] <clivejo> hes the lead guy who runs the project!
[12:59] <clivejo> so he gave us our own instance with 4 rooms!
[13:02] <clivejo> its open source and is installed on Ubuntu!
[13:05] <BluesKaj> ok , whatever your own instance with 4 rooms means :-)
[13:09] <clivejo> like a server!
[13:09] <clivejo> so no need to setup and manage our own!
[13:14] <mamarley> clivejo: I have had a look but I can't tell what versions it breaks either, sorry. :(  My packaging experience is pretty much limited to the graphics drivers PPA.  If you figure it out, please let me know so I can learn though.
[13:14] <clivejo> Im waiting on a lesson with yofel!
[13:18] <clivejo> mamarley: have you staging PPA enabled?
[13:21] <sgclark> clivejo: at which version did you figure out that it breaks stuff? (<< that version) Though I admit it trips me up as well. yofel of course has it mastered.
[13:21] <mamarley> clivejo: Yes.
[13:21] <yofel>  FWIW, our "5.5.5" version was upstream 5.5.52
[13:22] <yofel> *<IP_ADDRESS>
[13:22] <yofel> our script resolved the <IP_ADDRESS> symlink to 5.5.5
[13:22] <clivejo> oh
[13:22] <clivejo> yofel: I didnt release that
[13:22] <yofel> erm, 5.5.5 symlink to <IP_ADDRESS>
[13:23] <yofel> I probably wouldn't have either, just saying
[13:23] <clivejo> Ive uploaded <IP_ADDRESS>
[13:23] <clivejo> https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/ubuntu/staging-plasma/+build/9338444
[13:23] <clivejo> will that cause problems?
[13:23] <yofel> not sure how the script is supposed to handle that. It would need to read the upstream file, check if it's a symlink, then do the dereferencing itself until it reaches the correct filename
[13:23] <yofel> nope
[13:24] <yofel> it'll be a simple no-change rebuild
[13:27] <clivejo> so best way would be to create a patch
[13:27] <mamarley> I could probably do that.
[13:27] <mamarley> (If we are still talking about the bugfix I want.)
[13:27] <clivejo> based on the current SC for 5.5.52
[13:28] <yofel> is it fixed in the 5.5 branch?
[13:28] <clivejo> cause the code has changed since that patch upstream was applied
[13:28] <yofel> that would help..
[13:28] <clivejo> well if the script pulled in <IP_ADDRESS> and thats the version mamarley has installed then its not fixed
[13:29] <clivejo> I thought the script took the 5.5.5 version and thats why I uploaded <IP_ADDRESS>
[13:29] <mamarley> The diff is pretty simple and I know a bit about C programming, so maybe I can backport it and make a patch.
[13:29] <mamarley> Well, this is actually C++, but close enough.
[13:29] <clivejo> its only a few lines
[13:30] <mamarley> I will pull down the <IP_ADDRESS> package and see what I can do.
[13:30] <yofel> true, not fixed in branch :/
[13:30] <mamarley> That's fine; it just gives me my first opportunity to help out!
[13:31] <clivejo> mamarley: sure, if you paste me the patch Ill apply it
[13:31] <mamarley> OK, I will let you know when I have something.
[13:32] <yofel> please do ask d_ed if that patch is safe to apply to 5.5 - when you see him. (just so we have an upstream ack)
[13:34] <clivejo> he said on the bug report "I've only pushed this in master as I fear there may be some fallout. If people can test and let me know I might backport it."
[13:35] <acheron88> on staging http://paste.ubuntu.com/15358514/
[13:37] <clivejo> !info account-plugin-google xenial
[13:38] <acheron88> got pulled in with unity when testing I think
[13:38] <clivejo> looks like a Gnome/KDE conflict
[13:39] <yofel> ah ok, feel free to add then
[13:39] <acheron88> I'm just going to remove the unity/gnome version
[13:39] <clivejo> yofel: do we add a breaks for other suites?
[13:39] <acheron88> but should be able to coexist
[13:39] <yofel> clivejo: sorry, I missed the context?
[13:40] <yofel> oh THAT thing
[13:40] <yofel> that's like a year old bug that we keep forgetting about
[13:40] <sgclark> we did not forget
[13:40] <clivejo> kde-config-telepathy-accounts (--unpack):  trying to overwrite '/usr/share/accounts/services/google-im.service', which is also in package account-plugin-google 0.12+16.04.20160126-0ubuntu1
[13:40] <yofel> as far as I can tell, that should be "Conflicts: account-plugin-$foo"
[13:40] <sgclark> I rewoke that beast
[13:41] <yofel> as that's just plainly not co-installable
[13:41] <sgclark> and it is supposedly fixed now in libaccounts-glib
[13:41] <acheron88> aha. fair enough. 1st time I've had it
[13:41] <yofel> oh ok?
[13:41] <yofel> sgclark: which version?
[13:41] <sgclark> let me get a link
[13:42] <sgclark> last comment https://bugs.launchpad.net/kubuntu-ppa/+bug/1451728
[13:43] <yofel> ok, so I guess we need to change our install paths to XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP then?
[13:44] <sgclark> sounds like it. How exacly is that done?
[13:44] <yofel> usually in the install file, like:
[13:44] <yofel> /usr/foobar /usr/new/location/foobar/
[13:45] <yofel> as long as the plugins still work then (which should be the case if they use libaccounts)
[13:45] <acheron88> purging gnome version sorted it the 'inelegant' way anyways
[13:46] <yofel> oh, I should read the comments
[13:46] <yofel> https://quickgit.kde.org/?p=kaccounts-integration.git&a=commit&h=deff781ae751f2f1c95b24997d01aa38c0dd7502
[13:46] <acheron88> rest of xenial staging and the stuff migrated through to the main archive seems to be working well
[13:46] <acheron88> as much of the KDE/plasma stack that I use, anyway
[13:49] <yofel> -              broken.attachment
[13:49] <yofel> +              broken.attachment
[13:49] <yofel> FAIL!  : RenderTest::testRender(openpgp-signed-mailinglist+additional-children.mbox) Compared values are not the same
[13:49] <yofel> anyone disagree that this looks like upstream kdepim tests can't handle breeze? Or am I missing something?
[13:49] <yofel> I also saw a QWARN that it couldn't find oxygen somewhere
[13:51] <sgclark> img source being empty is surely a failure
[13:52] <yofel> hm, the icon theme might be missing
[13:53] <yofel> OTOH, the tests fail in kde ci as well, so I'll just disable the autopkgtests for now
[13:54] <yofel> now how do you actually do that..
[13:54] <Glu111> export DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS=nocheck
[13:54] <sgclark> debian removes autopkgtest line in control I think
[13:55] <sgclark> or that
[13:55] <mamarley> clivejo: The patch applies cleanly.  Let me make sure it compiles...
[13:55] <sgclark> yofel: looking at kaccount-providers there is no install file.  :( I will put it in one of my PPAs instead.
[13:56] <yofel> sgclark: there was that kaccounts-integration patch I linked above
[13:56] <yofel> maybe that's sufficient?
[13:57] <yofel> mck seems to have patched other stuff too though (see the bug comments)
[13:59] <ahoneybun> mm for some reason using adb freezes my machine
[13:59] <mamarley> clivejo: Does ppa:kubuntu-ppa/staging-plasma have build dependencies on other PPAs?
[14:00] <sgclark> it souldnt
[14:00] <mamarley> OK, thanks!
[14:00] <sgclark> ugh it shouldn't
[14:00] <sgclark> perhaps I am not awake yet, but I only see changes to the providers bit in that patch.
[14:01] <mamarley> sgclark: Is that second message intended for me?
[14:02] <sgclark> no yofel sorry
[14:02]  * sgclark has not had enough coffee
[14:02] <yofel> hm
[14:02] <mamarley> clivejo: I just uploaded it to https://launchpad.net/~mamarley/+archive/ubuntu/staging/+packages to test to make sure it compiles.  Right now I need to take my puppydog for a walk.  I will be back in a bit.
[14:02] <yofel> give me a minute to finish kdepim
[14:02] <BluesKaj> does the ppa:kubuntu-ppa/staging-plasma have plasma 5.6 ?
[14:02] <sgclark> sure no problem. I need more coffee
[14:03] <sgclark> BluesKaj: no
[14:04] <BluesKaj> sgclark, ok, thanks...btw you're up early ;-)
[14:04] <sgclark> yeah I agree
[14:04] <sgclark> we are still working on bugfix releases for xenial
[14:07] <BluesKaj> well, I admire everyone's dedication here. It's nice to see there are people who care about kubuntu, especially now.
[14:14] <yofel> sgclark: the patch changes both the providers and services install path
[14:14] <yofel> which is sufficient I believe?
[14:14] <sgclark> yes
[14:14] <sgclark> I have the patch ready for push
[14:14] <sgclark> in 15.12.2 we are working on
[14:14] <yofel> it will require a rebuild of all provider packages ofc
[14:15] <sgclark> sure npp
[14:15] <sgclark> np
[14:15]  * sgclark pushes
[14:15] <yofel> so they need >= 15.12.2 build-deps on itegration. Then we'll be fine I think
[14:15] <sgclark> k
[14:15] <yofel> thanks
[15:38] <clivejo> mamarley: patch applied - http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/pkg-kde/plasma/plasma-workspace.git/commit/?h=kubuntu_xenial_archive&id=4b6cabdced2a83fd591b970f4b674845bb735f9a
[15:49] <clivejo> FF is driving me insane!
[15:51] <sgclark> epochs are driving me insane
[15:55] <clivejo> lot of updates today
[15:58] <vertago1> Did anybody record the packaging event yesterday? I planned to join the hangout, but I have been dealing with a work emergency all week.
[16:01] <mamarley> clivejo: Thanks, but I hadn't even had a chance to make sure it ran yet.
[16:15] <sgclark> vertago1: we did not quite achieve our goal wiht the event due to limitation to 10 on google hangouts. I believe we have found a new solution for the next event. stay tuned.
[16:15] <vertago1> twitch tv
[16:16] <vertago1> hahah
[16:16] <vertago1> I was trying to think of a good streaming service
[16:16] <yofel> well, it's not a one man thing, so that doesn't quite work
[16:16] <clivejo> sgclark: did you join in on BigBlueButton
[16:16] <yofel> clivejo: where does one join that actually?
[16:17] <vertago1> yofel how man people do you need? you could do a 10 man hangout and stream that
[16:17] <clivejo> we got a server!
[16:17] <sgclark> I was there for the first session, not the one where you found the dev.
[16:17] <clivejo> kubuntu.blindsidenetworks.net
[16:17] <sgclark> vertago1: the goal is actually more of a classroom
[16:17] <clivejo> use welcome as password
[16:18] <sgclark> q/a session as you will
[16:18] <clivejo> he gave us 4 rooms
[16:18] <sgclark> wow
[16:19] <clivejo> the sound and video are suprisingly good
[16:20] <vertago1> My main question about packaging is say I find out what is wrong. What do I do then? I have posted bugs to launchpad which had sat there for months before being touched.
[16:20] <vertago1> like the FGLRX not working on 15.04 one
[16:23] <vertago1> looks like that one was acutally one month
[16:24] <vertago1> I am trying to get a patch accepted for texmaker related to qt5 upstream, but haven't gotten any response so I also submitted it to launchpad.
[16:25] <mamarley> clivejo: So the patch definitely fixes the problem.  It might be my imagination, but it may also be making my laptop stick on the KDE splash screen longer...
[16:28] <mamarley> It isn't seeming to take any longer on the other systems I have tried though.  Must be something else going on.
[16:29] <sgclark> vertago1: the two packages you just mentioned are upstream Ubuntu and we do not package. I know that does not help you sorry.
[16:30] <vertago1> sgclark, yeah I figured that, but what is the best way to document issues for kubuntu?
[16:31] <sgclark> Test with us and hang out here, mention things to us, create bugs with tag kubuntu or plasma5
[16:31] <sgclark> we are regretably very short handed right now and we know that. We hope that will change though.
[16:33] <vertago1> how do you normally test? running the beta distribution / backports / etc?
[16:33] <sgclark> We do have one super star bug triager but there are 1556440 bugs reported across 11668 projects :)
[16:33] <vertago1> sgclark so you need people to go through and confirm etc?
[16:34] <sgclark> vertago1: we stage everything first in ppa:kubuntu-ppa/staging-* then call for testers when it is ready
[16:34] <sgclark> vertago1: yes
[16:34] <sgclark> always and forever, bug triage is an endless job
[16:35] <vertago1> this doesn't seem to be the right spot based on your numbers: https://bugs.launchpad.net/kubuntu-ppa
[16:36] <sgclark> vertago1: that was all Ubuntu. We are equally affected by ubuntu bugs and KDE bugs at bugs,kde.org
[16:36] <sgclark> err bugs.kde.org
[16:36] <sgclark> so many bugs everywhere.
[16:37] <sgclark> which is why we cannot get to every bug in a timely manner. We would nnever get anything packaged lol
[16:38] <vertago1> it helps if there is a patch submitted though right?
[16:38] <sgclark> we do have https://launchpad.net/~ellisistfroh that does a ton of bug work if you want to contact them.
[16:38] <sgclark> vertago1: absolutely
[16:38] <sgclark> vertago1: and if you do, feel free to ping us in here to take a look
[16:38] <sgclark> we welcome all contributions!
[16:40] <yofel> ok, big blue button works great on my notebook. Whatever was wrong on my desktop last night
[16:41] <clivejo> http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/pkg-kde/plasma/plasma-workspace.git/commit/?h=kubuntu_xenial_archive&id=4b6cabdced2a83fd591b970f4b674845bb735f9a
[16:42] <clivejo> yofel: ^
[16:43] <yofel> "You are currently the only person in this conference" - how... nice
[16:45] <mamarley> clivejo: I didn't create the patch, just backported it.
[16:46] <mamarley> And the longer-than-normal KDE splash is only occurring on my laptop, not any other of the 4 systems I have tried the new build on so far.  There must be something else wrong with the laptop.
[16:47] <clivejo> mamarley: Im using the package with your patch
[16:48] <clivejo> boot usually takes me 54 seconds to my desktop displays
[16:48] <clivejo> done it in about 45 this time
[16:48] <mamarley> Ooh, nice.
[16:48] <clivejo> so feels quicker to me!
[16:49] <clivejo> I dont have your crash, but you say it is now fixed?
[16:50] <vertago1> have you looked into using bootchart?
[16:50] <vertago1> http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/bootchart.html
[16:51] <vertago1> I wonder how hard it would be to automattically generate a boot chart for the lastest working packages on a vm or something and put it on kci
[16:53] <clivejo> Ive looked at boot chart before
[16:54] <clivejo> but I cant really save any more time
[16:54] <sgclark> ktp-send-file error: pathspec 'kubuntu_xenial_archive' did not match any file(s) known to git. ummmm
[16:54] <vertago1> I think pulseaudio and plasma-nm have broken my boot time in the past
[16:54] <clivejo> I have a PostGres server starting up too
[16:55] <vertago1> clivejo you might be able to delay start some of the services
[16:55] <clivejo> for my OSM stuff
[16:55] <clivejo> but the boot delays dont bother me to be honest
[16:55] <clivejo> unlike the Firefox hanging!
[16:56] <vertago1> all my browser caches are on tmpfs so they are usually really fast
[17:27] <clivejo> hi kfunk
[17:27] <kfunk> hiho
[17:29] <kfunk> what's up? is xenial going to be a good release? :)
[17:30] <BluesKaj> kfunk, it's getting better all the time and it's quite stable and has been for months now
[17:30] <kfunk> well, I'm using it -> working great!
[17:32] <clivejo> :)
[17:32] <clivejo> kfunk: did you test plasma 5.5.5 ?
[18:09] <vertago1> I was thinking about upgrading my machines to xenial. I upgraded one, but I ran into a problem with unison which I use fairly extensively. I was able to install the wiley version for now.
[18:09] <vertago1> There is already a fix in the works.
[18:54] <vip> hi there
[18:54] <vip> is there newest kernel/xorg for wily?
[18:54] <vip> backport from xenial maybe?
[18:55] <vip> im experiencing strange xorg hangs, where theoreticaly everything works, but for real only mouse cursor is moving and you can only sysrq+sub
[18:57] <fenris-> bug 1304805
[19:04] <ahoneybun> is there a reported bug about the widget not being resizable
[19:07] <fenris-> ahoneybun: do you know why this error occur?
[19:08] <fenris-> quasselclient: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libKF5WidgetsAddons.so.5: undefined symbol: _ZNK19QAbstractTableModel7siblingEiiRK11QModelIndex
[19:08] <clivejo> fenris-: probably different versions in the archive
[19:08] <fenris-> previously its work fine
[19:09] <fenris-> im in xenial right now
[19:09] <clivejo> we are pushing packages through to the archive
[19:09] <fenris-> otw ? = now ?
[19:09] <ahoneybun> I just updated xenial
[19:10] <clivejo> did you have any of the landing PPA's enabled?
[19:10] <BluesKaj> i have , clivejo
[19:10] <fenris-> clivejo: for kubuntu?
[19:11] <clivejo> usually if you had the misc PPA enabled you should be fine as the missing packages are still coming from there
[19:11] <clivejo> yes
[19:11] <fenris-> no kubuntu ppa added yet
[19:12] <fenris-> im also having prob with qdbus
[19:12] <fenris-> cant login from lightdm
[19:12] <clivejo> !info qdbus xenial
[19:12] <clivejo> dunno why thats installed
[19:12] <clivejo> xenial will be QT5/KF5
[19:13] <fenris-> :(
[19:13] <clivejo> fenris-: where did you come from when you installed Kubuntu?
[19:14] <fenris-> clivejo: i fresh install ubuntu xenial
[19:14] <fenris-> then install quassel-client
[19:14] <clivejo> how did you move from ubuntu to kubuntu?
[19:14] <fenris-> then once the libKF5widget problem
[19:14] <fenris-> i tried install kubuntu
[19:14] <fenris-> then im stuck with the qdbus
[19:15] <clivejo> how did you install kubuntu?
[19:16] <fenris-> sudo apt-get install kubuntu-desktop
[19:16] <clivejo> from the main archive?
[19:16] <fenris-> yups
[19:16] <clivejo> its just a lot of blogs seem to be telling people to add unstable PPA's
[19:17] <BluesKaj> oops, clivejov I thougfht you asked "does anyone have landing ppa installed?"
[19:17] <fenris-> u want me to add the ppa ?
[19:18] <clivejo> the archive is in a weird state at the moment
[19:18] <clivejo> due to packages getting stuck
[19:19] <fenris-> at least i can get my quassel work back ..
[19:19] <clivejo> but if you were using a landing or the misc PPA you probably wont see any problems
[19:19] <clivejo> because the "missing" packages are coming from the PPA
[19:19] <BluesKaj> I have a few packages that are stuck in a upgrade/uninstall loop
[19:19] <clivejo> libkipi spectacle?
[19:20] <fenris-> u mean staging-misc?
[19:20] <BluesKaj> no these, libkf5kdcraw5 libraw15, and gwenview being held back altho it's working fine
[19:22] <clivejo> !info libkf5widgetsaddons5 xenial
[19:22] <fenris-> bug 1451728
[19:23] <fenris-> thats is another broken package if want to install fresh kubuntu-desktop
[19:23] <BluesKaj> ok thanks, clivejo ...the error doesn't seem to be affecting much
[19:24] <clivejo> fenris-: libKF5WidgetsAddons.so.5 comes from the package libkf5widgetsaddons5
[19:24] <clivejo> the archive is version 5.15
[19:24] <clivejo> and we are trying to get 5.18 into the archive
[19:26] <clivejo> I think sgclark wiped misc to start on new stuff
[19:26] <fenris-> owh ic
[19:27] <fenris-> so any ppa that u recommend me to add?
[19:27] <fenris-> to get 5.18
[19:28] <sgclark> fenris-: that bug is suppose to be fixed in the original package. I *just* uploaded our packages with new config to ppa:kubuntu-ppa/staging-kdeapplications. They need testing
[19:28] <sgclark> in regard to 1451728
[19:29] <clivejo> sgclark: where would we get  libkf5widgetsaddons5 5.18 from?
[19:29] <sgclark> uh? archive?
[19:29] <clivejo> !info libkf5widgetsaddons5 xenial
[19:30] <clivejo> its still 5.15
[19:30] <clivejo> has it got stuck?
[19:30] <clivejo> in proposed?
[19:31] <fenris-> im adding the ppa to test it
[19:31] <fenris-> yofel: here :)
[19:31] <yofel> ah ok, too many pings :D
[19:32] <clivejo> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/xenial/+source/kwidgetsaddons
[19:32] <clivejo> current version is 5.18.0-0ubuntu1
[19:32] <clivejo> where is it then!
[19:32] <yofel> fenris-: what version of libkf5widgetsaddons5 do you have installed right now?
[19:33] <yofel> !info libkf5widgetsaddons5 xenial-proposed
[19:33] <clivejo> yipppeeee
[19:33] <clivejo> yofel found it!
[19:34] <sgclark> it is in proposed... yeah..
[19:34] <sgclark> alos in update-excuses which makes no sense to me
[19:35] <clivejo> whats its excuse?
[19:35] <sgclark> lol
[19:35] <fenris-> proposed
[19:35] <yofel> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html#kwidgetsaddons
[19:36] <fenris-> ii  libkf5widgetsaddons5:amd64                    5.18.0-0ubuntu1                            amd64        add-on widgets and classes for applications that use the Qt Widgets module
[19:36] <yofel> now here I'm really clueless why it's not considered @_stowa
[19:36] <yofel> wth
[19:36] <clivejo> its green
[19:36] <yofel> now my keyboard is messing with me
[19:36] <clivejo> all passed
[19:37] <sgclark> autopkgtests are not all green though
[19:37] <sgclark> I am not versed in the magig of autopkgtests though. Guess I need to start studying
[19:37] <sgclark> magic*
[19:37] <yofel> well, only RED tests should prevent it from being considered
[19:37] <fenris-> me too
[19:38] <sgclark> ah, well then, why is it blocked :(
[19:38] <yofel> hm, I wonder what actually throws that symbol error
[19:38] <sgclark> not-considered means it is not even up for consideration to go to archive?
[19:38] <yofel> I have a test system with proposed enabled here, and there quasselclient runs fine
[19:38] <fenris-> :(
[19:38] <yofel> sgclark: to go to release, right
[19:38] <sgclark> ugh
[19:39] <fenris-> before this its work fine
[19:39] <fenris-> after i fresh install xenial
[19:39] <yofel> oh, qapt has a test it progress. That might be it
[19:41] <sgclark> QXcbConnection: Could not connect to display I recall this needs to be setup in tests directory with openbox and dbus call of sorts.
[19:41] <fenris-> i should wait ? or can do some work around ?
[19:41] <sgclark> baffeled that is not.
[19:44] <fenris-> how about the qdbus?
[19:47] <sgclark> yofel: seems like openbox or something is missing in kwidgetaddons for the tests.
[19:48] <yofel> the kwidgetsaddons are all green though?
[19:48] <sgclark> fenris-: I am sorry to say that while we are in transition from ppa to archive it is a terrible time to be a Kubuntu user in xenial. There is so many reason that you could be getting that error.
[19:49] <sgclark> yofel: builds? yes, tests all fail though.
[19:49] <fenris-> sgclark: ok noted
[19:49] <yofel> sgclark: http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/k/kwidgetsaddons/ ?
[19:49] <sgclark> fenris-: just keep updating apt
[19:49] <fenris-> i just installed the DE first
[19:49] <fenris-> sgclark: will do
[19:50] <fenris-> then will keep updating apt
[19:50] <yofel> fenris-: your quassel version is 0.12.2-0ubuntu1?
[19:50] <sgclark> yofel: hmm. what am I looking at
[19:50] <fenris-> yofel: before this .. but i've upgrade to 0.12.3
[19:50] <fenris-> using ppa
[19:50] <sgclark><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[19:50] <yofel> fenris-: which ppa?
[19:51] <fenris-> https://launchpad.net/~mamarley/+archive/ubuntu/quassel
[19:51] <mamarley> !
[19:52] <mamarley> So you are using my Quassel PPA with Xenial?  Do you have "quassel" or "quassel-client" installed?
[19:54] <fenris-> mamarley: yes
[19:54] <yofel> why do we have our own ubuntu-specific quassel version o.O
[19:54] <fenris-> i just upgrade it
[19:54] <mamarley> yofel: Huh?  We don't.
[19:54] <fenris-> just to test either it work ..
[19:54] <fenris-> previously i used from archive
[19:55] <yofel> mamarley: I mean that we don't share any history with debian at all
[19:55] <mamarley> Oh, that I can't explain.
[19:55] <mamarley> fenris-: So you started getting the complaint about libKF5WidgetsAddons.so.5 when you upgraded to the version from my PPA?
[19:56] <fenris-> nope
[19:56] <fenris-> before that ..
[19:56] <fenris-> when using archive
[19:57] <fenris-> so giving a thought upgrade using ppa will make it work again ... but unluckily .. still broken symbol
[19:57] <mamarley> So the issue was happening before you added my PPA too.    Is this a clean install of Xenial or did you upgrade a Wily install?
[19:59] <yofel> sgclark: yeah, kcalutils seems to need an xvfb wrapper
[20:00] <fenris-> fresh install
[20:00] <yofel> what irritates me about that lookup error, is that I upgraded to xenial today, and everything works fine
[20:00] <yofel> did you enable proposed updates?
[20:01] <fenris-> yofel: yes
[20:01] <fenris-> mamarley: i only have juju stable ppa and your quassel ppa
[20:02] <fenris-> the rest all from archive
[20:02] <mamarley> I'm pretty much clueless then.  I haven't had any such issues with my Xenial system, but it was upgraded from Wily rather than being a fresh install.
[20:02] <yofel> fenris-: what does this give you? nm -D /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libKF5WidgetsAddons.so.5 | grep TableModel7sibling
[20:02] <sgclark> proposed enabled has destroyed my system more than once haha
[20:03] <fenris->                  U _ZNK19QAbstractTableModel7siblingEiiRK11QModelIndex
[20:03] <yofel> ok.. same here
[20:07] <yofel> fenris-: nm -D /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libQt5Core.so.5 | grep _ZNK19QAbstractTableModel7siblingEiiRK11QModelIndex
[20:08] <fenris-><PHONE_NUMBER>228830 T _ZNK19QAbstractTableModel7siblingEiiRK11QModelIndex
[20:09] <yofel> ok, I'm clueless.
[20:10] <fenris-> i tried to purge n reinstall
[20:10] <fenris-> previously ... its remain the same
[20:11] <yofel> both symbols that you have issues with come from libQt5Core.so.5, but it seems like it's properly defined on your system
[20:11] <yofel> so I don't get why it would fail to look it up...
[20:12] <yofel> fenris-: just to make sure: ldd /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libKF5WidgetsAddons.so.5 | grep Qt5Core
[20:12] <fenris->         libQt5Core.so.5 => /opt/connect/libs/libQt5Core.so.5 (0x00007f602fe74000)
[20:13] <fenris-> hmmmmm
[20:13] <sgclark> um
[20:13] <yofel> well, nm -D /opt/connect/libs/libQt5Core.so.5 | grep _ZNK19QAbstractTableModel7siblingEiiRK11QModelIndex
[20:15] <yofel> anyway, mystery most likely solved. I'm off for a while
[20:15] <fenris-> i think .. let me remove the connect package first
[20:15] <fenris-> yofel: thanks alot
[20:15] <fenris-> its my 4g provider package
[20:16] <yofel> you probably have LD_LIBRARY_PATH set in your main env, which it really should not do
[20:17] <ejat_>         libQt5Core.so.5 => /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libQt5Core.so.5 (0x00007f5b43427000)
[20:17] <ejat_> yay!
[20:17] <ejat_> finally !!!
[20:17] <ejat_> thanks yofel
[20:24] <ejat> its also solved the qdbus
[20:28] <sgclark> oh yay, glad to hear it.
[20:37] <ejat> i can login to my kubuntu desktop
[20:41] <ejat> \0/
[20:42] <soee_> hiho
[20:45] <soee_> sgclark: i see a lot of updates in apps, there were some changes ?
[20:46] <sgclark> soee_: yes a year old bug finally fixed. Had to update and rebuild ktp*
[20:47] <soee_> :D
[20:47] <sgclark> needs testing from someone that has unity trying to install ktp though.
[21:39] <ejat> sgclark: run the ktp on unity?
[22:15] <clivejo> theres a surprise
[22:27] <clivejo> would it not be simpler to put the epoch on the entire suite?