[22:20] <max1> hiexpo_,  because windows sucks but some of their programs like word are very common to have to use
[22:20] <mneptok> !offtopic
[22:20] <nadilson> please a need help
[22:20] <Anticreeps> Mobile intel 965 express chipset familly
[22:20] <iLL> Has anyone got Photoshop CS4 to work on Wine?
[22:20] <MaNetho> @Out_Cold: Iknow it requires that the hardware supports it, but are you saying that what is possible depends on the hardware/bios ?
[22:20] <Slart> !appdb | iLL
[22:20] <ActionParsnip> max1: it doesnt suck, it justr sucks differently to linux
[22:20] <hiexpo_> but there are programs to convert there word docks and use office
[22:21] <Joker_-_> iLL: I eard it works, but you've got to install it on windows (then copy the files manually and all).
[22:21] <MaNetho> I'll jump into the 'offtopic' channel.. didn't notice it existed
[22:21] <Maletor> Hey - What's the point of using www-data? should i run 'sudo chown -R www-data:www-data /var/www/myproject' ?
[22:21] <Anticreeps> Slart, it was working fine til i did the updates it asked me. not only boots to that black screen and i can type bunch of commands...
[22:21] <iLL> Joker_, Thanks that is a start for me
[22:21] <Out_Cold> MaNetho, if it's supported by the hardware then i could assume that a dhcp request would wake it up... although the request might time out during the resume
[22:21] <Joker_-_> iLL: More on that topic on google I guess ;) (WineHQ maybe?)
[22:22] <funkyHat> Maletor: your project probably doesn't need to be owned by www-data, just readable by it
[22:22] <Slart> Out_Cold, MaNetho: doesn't wake-on-lan mean that you can send a special wake-up-packet to a computer and it will start? not that it will start if it detects any network traffic at all
[22:23] <funkyHat> Slart: yes
[22:23] <hiexpo_> and yes i agree with that for sure windows does suck
[22:23] <hiexpo_> its a boggy virus
[22:23] <Slart> hiexpo_: this channel is about ubuntu.. not windows..
[22:23] <max1> hiexpo_, you can edit word docs in linux but its hard to convert the edited office file back to word
[22:23] <hiexpo_> sorry
 well it depends on the card, there are 2-3 different options
[22:24] <morphix> there is all network traffic and there is only when receive 'magic' packet
[22:24] <Slart> morphix: ahh.. didn't know that.. nice
[22:24] <Slart> morphix: thanks
[22:24] <Maletor> funkyHat: so what does that mean?
[22:24] <UserSite> I finally got Ubuntu installed and connected to my wifi access point. I understand Ubuntu can be used to house images to be deployed to desktops/laptops. Is this true?
[22:25] <ActionParsnip> UserSite: sure, you can run a pxe server
[22:25] <funkyHat> Maletor: well, what I often do is chgrp -R www-data /path/to/myproject and then chmod 640...
[22:25] <Maletor> funkyHat: what's the point though?
[22:26] <funkyHat> Maletor: I can edit the project without having to mess about with permissions
[22:26] <max1> how hard is it to do a minimal installation of ubuntu? Do you have to know exactly what packages to install?
[22:26] <funkyHat> Maletor: or using sudo
[22:26] <Slart> max1: I think you can install the ubuntu-desktop package to get all the standard stuff
[22:27] <funkyHat> Slart: that's not minimal
[22:27] <Maletor> by why don't i just leave it as deploy:deploy ? funkyHat
[22:27] <Anticreeps> just installed the lastest updates and now Ubuntu will not boot. Now it tries to boot and it goes to a black screen like DOS
[22:27] <funkyHat> max1: do you want a minimal graphical install?
[22:27] <Anticreeps> saying press tab for commands
[22:27] <koshari> max1 you can go one of 2 ways, install ubuntu-desktop and strip what you dont need OR install ubuntu web install and install packages you need.
[22:27] <max1> I don't know, someone suggested it yesterday for my hardware, so I guess I am going to look into it
[22:28] <funkyHat> Maletor: sure you can, then you'll need the permissions to be world readable (which they probably already are)
[22:28] <ActionParsnip> max1: minimal will give you a base system (kernel, kernel modules + bootloader). If you are siomply going to instll ubuntu-desktop on it you may as well use the desktop iso
[22:28] <koshari> max1 do you just want minimal fluxbox?
[22:28] <Maletor> funkyHat: what exactly does the user www-data do?
[22:28] <ActionParsnip> max1: you can install a minimal gnome desktop instead to keep the install smaller than  all the apps the desktop installs comes with (or use a different one)
[22:29] <max1> I have never looked into fluxbox, right now I am in openbox, I have had ubuntu,xubuntu, and lubuntu
[22:29] <funkyHat> Maletor: the web server runs as that user
[22:29] <funkyHat> Maletor: so it has access to anything that that user has access to
[22:29] <koshari> max1 this is a good read, http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/minimal
[22:29] <ActionParsnip> max1then just install the DE you want and you will havea minimal desktop which will use less ram and less hdd space
[22:30] <jMyles> How can I list all devices to which dnsmasq has assigned a dhcp address?
[22:30] <max1> Well I like compiz and I thought compiz was just a add-on but someone told me yesterday it was a desktop
[22:30] <obiwan__> hi guys, pelase i got a question: the zyxel router i got in my apartment has a web interface which lets me see who's connected (their local dhcp ip's 192.168...-alike). How can i see this thru telnet? i'm already connected to it, what should i type?
[22:30] <duffydack> I have an ati HD 4650 using fglrx, its great, but Id like to banish the tearing that I get watching videos.. Ive turned vsync always on in ati CCC and even vsync on in compiz settings..does absolutely nothing..
[22:31] <ActionParsnip> obiwan__: telnet <IP_ADDRESS>   (or whatever the address is)
[22:31] <ActionParsnip> obiwan__: same as windows
[22:31] <acrobat> anyone have a guide to how i can install ubuntulive to a USB stick with unetbootin? i've done this procedure many times before but this time i just can't get it to boot off my usb stick (it workde before on this stikc)
[22:32] <obiwan__> the problem is that i dunno the local ip's ActionParsnip xP
[22:32] <obiwan__> look, my friends are in the apartment and i want to fsck em a little (just joking) cause i'm not there, but i need to know their local ip addresses
[22:32] <ActionParsnip> obiwan__: if you run: route    it will output the default route which will bne the ip, <IP_ADDRESS> is a good first try thouggh as most home grade routers use that address
[22:33] <Slart> obiwan__: nmap 192.168.*.* should find out what ip's are used
[22:33] <koshari> jMyles have you tried the -l switch?
[22:33] <xavierp94> Hello?
[22:33] <obiwan__> the efault route at my router is <IP_ADDRESS>
[22:33] <ActionParsnip> obiwan__: you got it then ;)
[22:33] <obiwan__> slart but to use that i need to be in the lan, and i'm not
[22:33] <xavierp94> Does anyone know how to change the wallpaper in Ubuntu?
[22:34] <xavierp94> A wallpaper switcher?
[22:34] <xavierp94> Anyone?
[22:34] <obiwan_> ActionParsnip: what i got? i still duno hehe
[22:34] <ActionParsnip> xavierp94: right click the desktop -> appearence settings (not sure on the second bit)
[22:34] <maco> xavierp94: right click on desktop -> change background ??
[22:34] <Slart> obiwan__: ahh... missed your first message
[22:34] <morphias> xavierp94, right click on the desktop and click change desktop background
[22:34] <xavierp94> I know how to change the wallpaper
[22:34] <ActionParsnip> obiwan_: then the command is: telnet <IP_ADDRESS>
[22:34] <xavierp94> How
[22:34] <xavierp94> How can
[22:34] <obiwan_> i want something like this: connected hosts: (hostname) ---- ip : <IP_ADDRESS>, other hostname...-- other lan ip ...
[22:34] <xavierp94> How can I add mutiple wallpapers
[22:34] <psyphercode> can anyone please help me fix a complete screwed ubuntu install, very desprate
[22:34] <ActionParsnip> xavierp94: right cklick the desktop, its the same as ni windows
[22:34] <obiwan_> np slart x)
[22:34] <xavierp94> To change in a certain amount of time.
[22:35] <maco> xavierp94: devilspie maybe?
[22:35] <morphias> xavierp94, you man different wallpaper on each workspace?
[22:35] <xavierp94> I want several wallpapers to change in a set amount of time.
[22:35] <morphias> oh that
[22:35] <xavierp94> A slideshow sort of.
[22:35] <jMyles> How can I list all devices to which dnsmasq has assigned a dhcp address?
[22:35] <morphias> i THINK compiz has a slideshow plugin
[22:35] <morphias> let me check
[22:35] <xavierp94> really?
[22:35] <obiwan_> ActionParsnip: , but i already did that, substituting <IP_ADDRESS> for the outside ip cause i'm telneting remotely
[22:36] <Hydrosis> xavierp94, you need to find the linux equilevant to Destopia or whatever the windows alternative is called.
[22:36] <Slart> xavierp94: I read that some people used "feh" to do that.. http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Feh  that page is for archlinux.. but it should be mostly the same in ubuntu
[22:36] <xavierp94> I was asking about this because in Ubuntu 9.10 there is a wallpaper installed by default that does that.
[22:36] <xavierp94> Its the one that has space pictures.
[22:36] <Hydrosis> xavierp94, I still have that wallpaper in Karmic.
[22:36] <Hydrosis> Its space themed./
[22:37] <xavierp94> Yes
[22:37] <_Tristan> my HD copies files very slowly, how can I make it faster?
[22:37] <Hydrosis> I still have mine?
[22:37] <xavierp94> How can I do that too?
[22:37] <morphias> Hydrosis, any idea how they grouped the wallpaper like that?
[22:37] <xavierp94> Is it a XML file?
[22:37] <Hydrosis> morphias, no bu Im sure you could find out on the Ubuntu Forums.
[22:37] <obiwan_> ActionParsnip: i'm now in the telnet menu, and i want a list like this: user(the typical name the pc name you give when installing windows(they got windows)), and the local ip of that pc, then other pc name, and its ip, and so for all the local ips
[22:38] <jMyles> koshari: I'm sorry - what's the command?  dnsmasq -l?  This does not work.
[22:38] <morphias> xavierp94, im going to look for you
[22:38] <xavierp94> Ok
[22:38] <no_one> Hey all
[22:38] <xavierp94> Thank you for you help.
[22:38] <Hydrosis> xavier, open yoru wallpaper folder.
[22:39] <Hydrosis> usr/share/background  xavierp94
[22:39] <no_one> Any one have any idea how to up the screen res on ubuntu 9.10
[22:39] <xavierp94> Ok
[22:39] <Hydrosis> The folder named cosmos, replace the pics
[22:39] <max1234> xavierp94, I read about it yesterday, you have to download feh or something
[22:39] <no_one> Suck at 800X600
[22:39] <Dr_Willis> no_one:  install the proper gfx drivers for your card. for starters
[22:39] <no_one> Its intigrated
[22:39] <no_one> Intel
[22:39] <Dr_Willis> !intel | no_one
[22:39] <fallore> does rhythmbox have any way to enable global hotkeys?
[22:40] <xangua> fallore: are you in xfce¿¿
[22:40] <Dr_Willis> check the INTEl video threads on the forums. It may need a updated driver.
[22:40] <xavierp94> I'm at usr/share/background.
[22:40] <xavierp94> Already
[22:40] <Hydrosis> Dr_Willis, couldnt he just try "apt-get install intel"  ?
[22:41] <max1234> xavierp94,  now change the pics he said
[22:41] <Dr_Willis> !info intel
[22:41] <Hydrosis> oh
[22:41] <Dr_Willis> Hydrosis:  that would be.. no.
[22:41] <Dr_Willis> :)
[22:41] <xavierp94> ?
[22:41] <morphias> xavierp94, take a look at that xml file in the /usr/share/backgrounds/cosmos folder
[22:41] <Dr_Willis> Most intel video drivers are allready included
[22:41] <xavierp94> ok
[22:41] <no_one> Thanks Dr. Willis
[22:41] <MohammadRRR> hi is there any linux karaoke software ?
[22:41] <Hydrosis> xavierp94, read morphias's last comment, same as I told you.
[22:42] <xavierp94> Its called background-1.0.xml right?
[22:42] <gilgamesh_> MohammadRRR: UltraStar NG
[22:42] <morphias> xavierp94, what i would do is copy and paste the cosmos folder to create a duplicate and change the stuff in it
[22:42] <faryshta> Hi, how can I read/edit files .dbf (dbase III) in Ubuntu?
[22:42] <xavierp94> Ok
[22:42] <morphias> xavierp94, yes
[22:42] <xavierp94> Thanks
[22:42] <fallore> xangua, no, i don't know what that is.
[22:42] <obiwan_> please guys, does anybody know how to list all the lan ip's in a telnet session?
[22:42] <blackout> hey there, i was wondering if someone could help me i'm having a problems with samba on ubuntu
[22:43] <xavierp94> Is there a program that is much easier than this Hydrolysis?
[22:43] <obiwan_> i should have said i'm remotely telnetting, so i can't use nmap or that tools, just telnet
[22:43] <Dr_Willis> xavierp94:  i saw a script the other day that could generate  those xml files for other directories/wallpapers
[22:43] <MohammadRRR> gilgamesh_:thanks:)
[22:43] <xavierp94> Hydrosis:  Is there a program that is much easier than this
[22:43] <xavierp94> For wallpaper switching.?
[22:43] <max1234> mohammadRRR: Did you figure out how to convert your file?
[22:44] <morphias> xavierp94, if there isn't i will look into making a small app to do so
[22:44] <xavierp94> ok
[22:44] <blackout> the samba server seems to have installed and configured successfully however when i attempt to connect to it from a windows vista box i'm getting an error
[22:44] <xavierp94> That would be very helpful.
[22:44] <Dr_Willis> xavierp94:  http://onlyubuntu.blogspot.com/2009/12/bash-script-to-generate-gnome-wallpaper.html
[22:44] <xavierp94> Why doesn't Ubuntu 9.10 do this by default?
[22:44] <Dr_Willis> xavierp94:  thers also dozens of wallpaper switching apps out therer.
[22:44] <blackout> "A device attached to the system is not functioning."
[22:44] <faryshta> Hi, how can I read/edit files .dbf (dbase III) in Ubuntu?
[22:45] <Hydrosis> xavierp94, have you tried looking in the repository for wallpaper packages?  Maybe there is something in there for you.
[22:45] <Dr_Willis> xavierp94:    with that xml file setup you can define exactly when the wallpaper changes not just random. So you can jhave different ones for each day of the week, or hour of the day.
[22:45] <xavierp94> ok
[22:45] <max1234> xavierp94, look into feh
[22:45] <blackout> i'm able to ping the ubuntu samba server from windows vista with no problems, and the expect ports seem to be open so i'm not sure what could be going wrong...
[22:45] <xavierp94> thanks for the help
[22:45] <blackout> any ideas?
[22:45] <xavierp94> i really appriciate it
[22:45] <xavierp94> bye
[22:45] <MohammadRRR> max1234:yes
[22:46] <MohammadRRR> max1234:i have used mmc ( mobile media converter)
[22:46] <gilgamesh_> obiwan_: you are in system ?
[22:47] <xavierp94> I found this program called desktop drapes
[22:47] <militant> so i'm trying to connect to xp pro using remote desktop viewer.  it just sits and spins with a black window for a few minutes then says connection closed.  xp pro has remote enabled
[22:47] <xavierp94> On the Software Center.
[22:47] <xavierp94> It lets me change the wallpaper to and much easier. :D
[22:47] <max1234> MohammadRRR: I am a newbie too, it's pretty fun:)
[22:47] <Hydrosis> Good job, xavierp94
[22:47] <xavierp94> Thanks.
[22:48] <MohammadRRR> max1234: :)
[22:48] <xavierp94> For your help too.
[22:48] <Dr_Willis> !info feh
[22:48] <obiwan_> nope gilgamesh_
[22:48] <obiwan_> i'm out
[22:49] <mirror666> hi
[22:49] <mirror666> gthjh
[22:49] <mirror666> hiii
[22:49] <mirror666> kjijhhd
[22:51] <psyphercode> can anyone please help me fix a complete screwed ubuntu install caused by a kernel update, very desprate
[22:51] <faryshta> Hi, how can I read/edit files .dbf (dbase III) in Ubuntu?
[22:52] <gilgamesh_> obiwan_: and you want get your friends ip adress ? throught telnet ?
[22:53] <psyphercode> kernel -17 is totally screwed
[22:53] <protojay> psyphercode, ah your back, what have you messed up this time?
[22:53] <psyphercode> not me, a friend
[22:53] <Malkavian> faryshta: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=854209
[22:54] <obiwan_> yeah gilgamesh_
[22:54] <faryshta> Malkavian, you are the man.
[22:55] <obiwan_> look, the web interface of my zyxel can do it, if i type inside the lan <IP_ADDRESS> i get acces to the web interface, and through the services menu i can look em up
[22:55] <obiwan_> gilgamesh_:
[22:55] <obiwan_> but telnet it's supposed to work the same way as webgui, so i thought i could acces that data the same way
[22:56] <gilgamesh_> obiwan_: figer is not working ?
[22:56] <gilgamesh_> finger*
[22:57] <bastid_raZor>
[22:57] <obiwan_> gilgamesh_: is finger at telnet shell?
[22:57] <obiwan_> i need to do it through telnet
[22:58] <gilgamesh_> mhm
[22:58] <psyphercode> protojay: he installed the latest kernel and his pc is completely hosed
[22:58] <obiwan_> look, if i type at my firefox <IP_ADDRESS> i gett a prompt for user and password router, and then i get into the web interface of the router. There i can see the dhcp tables with ip addresses. telnet is another interface for the router, instead of web interface, terminal interface. i need to do the same (list ip addresses) trhu telnet.
[22:59] <linxeh> obiwan_: read the manual for your router
[22:59] <morphix> yeh
[22:59] <linxeh> obiwan_: each has different commands...
[22:59] <morphix> its related to your router
[22:59] <morphix> completely offtopic
[22:59] <linxeh> obiwan_: try in #ubuntu-offtopic etc :)
[22:59] <Hydrosis> obiwan_, you need to know the IP and passwords/username to access via telnet
[23:00] <mauri> i need help......during compiling vlc i have :   libtool: link: unsupported hardcode properties
[23:00] <frozia> hey all
[23:01] <linxeh> mauri: https://forum.videolan.org/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=56784 ?
[23:01] <Hydrosis> obiwan_, read http://www.webdevelopersnotes.com/basics/telnet.php3
[23:01] <thelinuxexperime> can someone please direct me to where I would get advice on creating a deb package? thanks in advance!
[23:01] <Hydrosis> thelinuxexperime, http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/Linux-For-Devices-Articles/How-to-make-deb-packages/
[23:01] <linxeh> Hydrosis: I dont see how that possibly helps him
[23:02] <linxeh> wow, its busy tonight :p
[23:03] <koppe> Trying find . -type f \( -name "*.php" -o -name "*.htm" -o name "*.html" -o -name "*.xml" \) -exec lynx -force-html -dump {} \; , but gets "find: paths must precede expression: name"... what am I doing wrong?
[23:03] <patdk-wk> I just upgraded my xen machine from hardy to karmic, and getting mountall errors
[23:03] <thelinuxexperime> Hydrosis: thank you for your quick response. I was actually hoping to talk to someone about an issue I am having creating a deb from a mono project. Basically I can't seem to get it to handle the .desktop file correctly.
[23:04] <dr4g> Hey guys i just installed Ubuntu, i wanna make my interface look good. Thinking about Beryl and cool effects when opening/dragging windows. Can someone help me out ? (point me in the right direction).
[23:04] <dr4g> -
[23:04] <thelinuxexperime> Hydrosis: do you have experience at all in this regard or know who might?
[23:04] <linxeh> koppe: missing - on one of the name paramters ?
[23:04] <Malkavian> thelinuxexperime: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2683
[23:04] <Hydrosis> thelinuxexperime, give me a few minutes, I'll message someone and ask if the'll help you, if they are available.
[23:04] <linxeh> koppe: the one before *.html
[23:05] <Dr_Willis> dr4g:  berly is dead.. compiz has replaced it.. and compiz is isntalled by default
[23:05] <Dr_Willis> !compiz | dr4g
[23:05] <Hydrosis> thelinuxexperime, http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/  read this
[23:05] <thelinuxexperime> Hydrosis: thank you!
[23:05] <dr4g> Dr_Willis, ah i see that in synaptic when i looked for beryl
[23:05] <dr4g> thanks Dr_Willis
[23:05] <Dr_Willis> dr4g:  install the ccsm tool to tweak it also
[23:05] <Dr_Willis> !ccsm | dr4g
[23:05] <koppe> Oh ****!  Thanks!  It's as they say, "the eyes are where you first go blind"
[23:05] <d`> Virtual kak nado bilo nick regatj
[23:05] <d`> ?
[23:06] <testor> Quick question: How to increase max number of loop devices in Karmic? no module loop is there...
[23:06] <dr4g> Dr_Willis, i just installed ccsm
[23:06] <dr4g> where to locate compiz on the ubuntu installation ?
[23:06] <Dr_Willis> dr4g:  also 'emerald' is basically dead.
[23:06] <obiwan_> sry linxeh and Hydrosis , my router doesn't have a manual for telnet, because it has its own web interface. And i have the user & pass cause it's my own router.  I'm outside the lan , but if you can do it through web interface, i guess you can thru telnet.
[23:06] <Dr_Willis> dr4g:  its allready there. you enable it , and use the ccsm tool to tweak it. If you got your video card drivers going properly
[23:07] <dr4g> Dr_Willis, how to enable ? :)
[23:07] <dr4g> I googled and got here: Dr_Willis, are you using the
[23:07] <dr4g> oops
[23:07] <dr4g> http://kevin.vanzonneveld.net/techblog/article/enable_compizfusion_in_ubuntu_feisty/
[23:07] <linxeh> obiwan_: what router ?
[23:07] <linxeh> obiwan_: and what happens when you login over telnet and type "help"
[23:08] <Dr_Willis> dr4g:  right cliock on deaktop -> cyhange wallpaper -> last tab
[23:09] <veille> Hi
[23:09] <villegente> Hi I have one strange problem with my Ubuntu Server 9.10 sometime my server don't stop properly and when I restart it I have a Grub menu. If the PC stop properly I haven't the Grub menu. It seems that I can't set a timeout to this. Can you help ?
[23:09] <Primo_NT> #bskillers
[23:09] <veille> how to disable HAL's power saving?
[23:09] <dr4g> Dr_Willis, i went to change desktop background, then chose Visual Effects
[23:10] <obiwan_> linxeh: a zyxel one. WHen i do help, i just get the telnet help, commands and stuff, but i can't find out which one, i've tried a lot of things
[23:10] <linxeh> 660 series ?
[23:10] <Hydrosis> dr4g, did you get compiz enabled that way?
[23:11] <Dr_Willis> dr4g:  i allready said you MUST have your video card drivers properly installef first or you wont be able to enable them
[23:12] <dr4g> sorry brb guys wubi selected 3GB for me and i already used up 2.4GB so i'm gonna uninstall ubuntu, and reinstall it with 20GB storage
[23:12] <iLL> 3
[23:12] <dr4g> back in 10 minutes :) thanks
[23:12] <villegente> McPeter : ?!
[23:12] <linxeh> obiwan_: I dont have one here, but I used to have one. it wasnt hard to figure out from the help
[23:12] <Hydrosis> Wubi in 10 minutes?  Suuureeee.
[23:14] <militant> hiya.  wondering about remote desktop stuff.  trying to find something that will let me log into my xp pro machine from ubuntu, but won't disable the existing xp login... basically i wanna control my desktop from my laptop but still have the desktop's display showing the results
[23:14] <linxeh> obiwan_: I've just downloaded the manual for a 660 series zyxel. its got the commands in it, in an appendix (G)...
[23:14] <linxeh> well, the basics ;-)
[23:15] <gilgamesh_> militant: try vnc
[23:15] <avm3> I am trying to install Fedora Core and Ubuntu to the same disk drive. I was told I only need one swap partition and one boot partition, so long as there is some boot parameters specified to each partition. Ubuntu always wants to make its own swap partitions though, and it takes up disk space. Also, after I install Ubuntu, it doesn't see Fedora Core, it only sees Windows. How can I fix these two problems>
[23:15] <militant> gilgamesh_, i'm using terminal services client from ubuntu to log into ultravnc server on the xp desktop.. but it's locking the xp machine's login session back to the login screen when i connect
[23:16] <cobra679> avm3 sounds like a big problem
[23:16] <magneto> hi ubuntu peepers
[23:16] <avm3> why is it a big problem?
[23:16] <cobra679> Just sounds like a headache
[23:17] <testor> Finally solved it with mknod by creating them manually... any "finer" way?
[23:17] <avm3> yes it is one of those things I suppose.
[23:17] <veille> Hi, can anybody tell me how to disable sleep mode in ubuntu? (with no x-server)
[23:17] <magneto> check this out, i cannot run emacs and get a weird font error
[23:17] <magneto> http://pastie.org/777207
[23:17] <Hydrosis> veille, is it locking when it does sleep?  Im having that problem.
[23:17] <avm3> In the last Ubuntu edition I was able to specify the partition it was on during installation and successfully point to Suse Linux
[23:18] <obiwan_> linxeh:  telnet commands?
[23:18] <MasterofPuppets> Hey guys, I'm using Karmic as of the latest update and my panel won't reappear when I put my cursor over it. Help?
[23:18] <veille> Hydrosis: its not locking.. it just sleeps.. i need to press a key to make it alive
[23:18] <avm3> I didn't see that option during installation though, boot loader configuration. The screen that was there approached an unrelated topic.
[23:18] <Jeruvy> !panel | MasterofPuppets
[23:18] <veille> Hydrosis: its a server so it's __really__ a problem
[23:18] <Hydrosis> system > preferences > power managment
[23:18] <MasterofPuppets> Jeruvy: I think the bot is asleep
[23:18] <Hydrosis> system > preferences > power managment veille
[23:19] <veille> Hydrosis: did u read me? i said i dunt have gnome
[23:19] <trism> testor: according to the source, you can change the maximum number by adding a max_loop=<1-255> kernel parameter on boot
[23:19] <Jeruvy> MasterofPuppets: ok since ubottu isn't being helpful, try this out: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=392387
[23:19] <Hydrosis> veille, oh well.  Someone else will have to help you.
[23:20] <avm3> no advice cobra?
[23:20] <elTigre> hey, I am trying to use skype on ubuntu... but my system is too slow (only dual core) and the sound is very bad...(rtapi alsa underrun) and the workarounds don't improve it a lot
[23:20] <elTigre> could someone help me?
[23:20] <MasterofPuppets> Jeruvy: The panel hasn't been deleted, though, it's still there.
[23:20] <veille> Hi, can anybody tell me how to disable sleep mode in ubuntu? (WITHOUT ANY GRAPHICAL INTERFACE)
[23:20] <militant> elTigre, i dunno anything about that, but my core2duo does just fine
[23:20] <testor> trism: Okay, will try. According to some forum-threads it did not work - well, might for me ;-)
[23:20] <MasterofPuppets> Jeruvy: It used to only appear if I hovered my cursor in the very-most top-left corner of the screen, but now it won't appear at all, ever since I set it not to expand.
[23:21] <avm3> it should come alive ify ou use a button, if it doesn't try unplugging your keyboard and plugging it back in, if that doesn't work the OS might have stalled out for some reason
[23:21] <avm3> that's the only thing I can think of in terms of sleep mode
[23:21] <unr3a1> hey all
[23:21] <elTigre> militant: hm, skype isn't usable for me ... the sound output is garbled
[23:21]  * MrDudle brb
[23:21] <Jeruvy> MasterofPuppets: #9 in that thread will restore the panel to default, or is there some other problem maybe I didn't quite understand properly?
[23:21] <unr3a1> is there a way to boot ubuntu to the command line rather than xserver?
[23:21] <magneto> veille: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=813387
[23:22] <MasterofPuppets> Jeruvy: Just that it hasn't been deleted, I know it's still there, I can see the edge, I just can't get it to un-hide for some reason.
[23:22] <elTigre> I don't enjoy skype on ubuntu... every few weeks you have to do a completely new problem diagnosis, and every time you learn more about why sound is bad in linux....
[23:22] <MasterofPuppets> Jeruvy: While it's not a huge strain on the processor, I'm trying to avoid running dozens of panels :P
[23:22] <unr3a1> If I hit ctrl alt f1, my video card freaks out and wont display the command line.  instead it displays all these colors and I can't do anything except for ctrl alt del to reboot.  any help would be appreciated.
[23:22] <magneto> http://pastie.org/777207
[23:22] <magneto> check this out, i cannot run emacs and get a weird font error
[23:22] <veille> magneto: it's not my ubuntu version. im at the last and HAL is depreciated
[23:22] <Dr_Willis> Or you learn more about why closed source software is bad....
[23:22] <Jeruvy> MasterofPuppets: ok, do the steps in #9 that will make it normal.  Anytime I have panel woes that works perfectly.
[23:23] <Hydrosis> Dr_Willis, closed source software usually *works* for me, unlike many pet-project apps in the open source community.  I love open source, but closed source means money is being put into it, usually.  That ensures quality, a lot of the time.
[23:23] <MasterofPuppets> Jeruvy: Alright, do I have to reboot?
[23:24] <habtool2>  /chanopt confmode on
[23:24] <veille> magneto: I tried a # aptitude remove pm-utils powermgmt-base
[23:24] <skrite> unr3a1, you can disable GDM
[23:24] <veille> magneto: do u think it would be sufficient?
[23:24] <unr3a1> skrite, how?
[23:24] <Dr_Willis> Hydrosis:  i find that most closed source apps i use on linux - dont follow that logic.
[23:24] <unr3a1> skrite, I need to boot directly to the command line first without starting xserver
[23:25] <Jeruvy> MasterofPuppets: You should not
[23:25] <unr3a1> skrite, if I start xserver and back out, I get the funky colors
[23:25] <skrite> remove gdm
[23:25] <unr3a1> well, I don't want to remove it
[23:25] <unr3a1> I just want it to keep from booting for one bootup
[23:25] <MasterofPuppets> Jeruvy: Nevermind, it work, I just have to restore my changes. Thanks!
[23:25] <skrite> unr3a1, you can disable it by killing its execute permission    sudo chmod a-x /etc/init.d/gdm
[23:25] <Dr_Willis> You can stop the gdm service from starting by changeing the name of the file /etc/init/gdm.conf
[23:25] <Dr_Willis> unr3a1:  what release of ubuntu you using?
[23:26] <Jeruvy> MasterofPuppets: ah you keep backups, good to see :)
[23:26] <unr3a1> Dr_Willis, 9.10.  just upgraded, and it killed my nvidia driver installation
[23:26]  * Dr_Willis points out that in 9.10 the change to upstart has removed teh need/use/features of stuff in init.d/*
[23:26] <Hydrosis> Dr_Willis, I find most open source apps that I would need to use if I didnt have closed source apps on linux fail to meet my requirements.  Audacity, for example, is a failure when it comes to audio recording in a studio setting.  ProTools and Adobe Audition are my preferred apps for that stuff.
[23:26] <unr3a1> skrite, ok, and once I do that, reboot, it will boot to command line?
[23:26] <unr3a1> and wont even start the graphical logon?
[23:26] <MasterofPuppets> Jeruvy: I'm a university student and newspaper intern - if I lose any work I'm automatically screwed ;) Cheers!
[23:26] <skrite> unr3a1, yes, will not start the graphical login
[23:27] <Dr_Willis> unr3a1:  if you want to stop gdm fom starting change /etc/init/gdm.conf to be named /etc/init/gdm.DONTSTART_CONF or similer
[23:27] <magneto> http://pastie.org/777207
[23:27] <magneto> how do i check fonts?
[23:27] <unr3a1> Dr_Willis, then change it back once I want it to be started?
[23:27] <Dr_Willis> unr3a1:  just cahnge the .conf extension to anything else. :)
[23:27] <Dr_Willis> unr3a1:   or do 'sudo gdm' or perhaps 'sudo service gdm start' *that might work*
[23:29] <unr3a1> trying that now
[23:29] <unr3a1> thank you
[23:29] <unr3a1> will be back to let you guys know how it did
[23:29] <Nickmman`> out
[23:29] <Nickmman`> er
[23:29] <Jazz> server irc.whatnet.org
[23:29] <militant> anyone use ultravnc server on a windows box?  i'm trying to figure out how to have it keep my local login session active and screen going, when i log in remotely
[23:31] <functionofxy> what's the best way to get the new amarok? is there a ppa?
[23:31] <functionofxy> i only found a nightly ppa
[23:31] <Jeruvy> militant: normally you do by default
[23:32] <blakkheim> functionofxy: use an up to date distro
[23:32] <functionofxy> blakkheim, i'm on karmic
[23:32] <blakkheim> functionofxy: exactly
[23:32] <militant> Jeruvy, you mean the default behaviour is for the server's existing active login to stay up, and the screen and keyboard and things to continue working?
[23:32] <functionofxy> blakkheim, but they just released a new version today--big fixes and all
[23:32] <nutzer> hALLO
[23:33] <blakkheim> functionofxy: i know. i am saying that ubuntu in general doesn't usually have the newest packages
[23:33] <mauri> how is possibile to generate a .deb package including the call to the dependances?
[23:33] <functionofxy> blakkheim, yes, i realize that. but sometimes, i can get the new ones through a ppa. do you know of one?
[23:33] <blakkheim> functionofxy: no, i don't use ubuntu. i'd just grab the source of the new version and compile it if i were you
[23:34] <Jeruvy> militant: yes, normally you use a client to connect the the vnc server and the current logged in user is not changed.
[23:34] <militant> Jeruvy, i just did a default install and when i log in from the other machine, it's locking the workstation... i'm a bit confused :)
[23:34] <Ziber> If I have an iso, is there a CLI way to install it to a disk image?
[23:34] <Ziber> Ie, a virtual HD
[23:34] <Jeruvy> militant: what server did you install on the windows box?
[23:35] <Jeruvy> militant: which rather..
[23:35] <militant> Jeruvy, ultravnc's latest
[23:35] <bleepbloop> newb question:  how do i find the domain name of my internet?
[23:35] <unr3a1> Dr_Willis, now it wont book
[23:36] <functionofxy> blakkheim, found it. ppa:kubuntu-ppa/backports
[23:36] <Ziber> How can I install an iso to a virtual disk image?
[23:36] <militant> Jeruvy, the idea is the desktop is mostly a gaming box and i wanna be able to turn on my games and things without going over there to the machine.  i wanna be able to vnc in, start my game, close vnc client
[23:36] <bleepbloop> wait, ignore my question for the time being
[23:36] <bleepbloop> google saved me
[23:37] <m0ar> Is there a bugreport-channel?
[23:37] <dr4g> Hey guys i'm bck
[23:37] <unr3a1> Dr_Willis, it wont boot past the single white ubuntu logo portion of the boot up process.  creating usb start up disk so I can change that file back to its regular name
[23:37] <dr4g> Dr_Willis, you alive? :)
[23:37] <maco> m0ar: use the "ubuntu-bug" command to file a bug report
[23:37] <Hydrosis> dr4g, you might not be able to use compiz with wubi.  I know I couldnt use it back with Hardy.
[23:37] <m0ar> maco: I'm on windoose jsut because of that bug :)
[23:37] <maco> m0ar: if you need help gathering info to attach to the bug report, #ubuntu-bugs is wher the triagers are
[23:38] <Jeruvy> militant: check the settings on the server, perhaps you are logging in rather than joining an existing session.  I'm not overly familiar with ultravnc, I use tightvnc.
[23:38] <unr3a1> why is there no easy way to get to the command line from the logon screen in 9.10?  I think thats very limiting.
[23:38] <Dr_Willis> dr4g:  im in and out all day
[23:38] <militant> Jeruvy, i have, but i'll look again.  cool
[23:38] <m0ar> maco: The what?
[23:38] <blakkheim> unr3a1: don't use gdm and you'll boot right to the commandline
[23:38] <maco> m0ar: people who get bug reports from "help its broken" state to being useful to develoipers
[23:38] <Dr_Willis> unr3a1:  try alt-ctrl-f1 through f5 see if ya can get to a console.   It would be weird that gdm works and the console dosent
[23:38] <m0ar> maco: Ah, thanks
[23:38] <Jeruvy> militant: windows gets a bit anal about having two concurrent logins, that could be the issue.
[23:39] <Dr_Willis> unr3a1:  i get straigyht to the command line with no gdm needed... its the default.
[23:39] <militant> Jeruvy, i know it's worked before a year or two ago but i forget what i was using back then.  tightvnc sounds right though.  i'll just try it
[23:39] <unr3a1> Dr_Willis, nothing is happening.  only ctrl alt del works
[23:39] <Halabund> Do other people get a lot of flashing in animated Flash content in Karmic or is it just me?  It's not unusable, but quite annoying.
[23:39] <Jeruvy> militant: I'd recommend it :)
[23:40] <militant> Jeruvy, i will do that right now - if you can assure me that you're able to log into a tightvnc server and it not log you out on that machine... :D
[23:40] <militant> that is from your personal experienc eof ourse
[23:40] <ganeshiva> hai everyone
[23:41] <Jeruvy> militant: should not have any, I use it a fair bit.
[23:41] <militant> ok.  thanks for the help.  might poke you in a bit if i run into issues.
[23:41] <pwnedulongtime>  /msg NickServ identify ajwmmp
[23:41] <blakkheim> pwnedulongtime: good  job
[23:41] <JimmyJ> Oh shi-
[23:41] <unr3a1> I will have to download the iso first though...
[23:41] <Jeruvy> I'm always here :)
[23:41] <cruso> hi
[23:42] <pwnedulongtime> lol time to change my paasword
[23:42] <dr4g> Dr_Willis, ok
[23:42] <unr3a1> why would my graphics card be fubarring and generating all these weird colors when I try to leave xserver?
[23:42] <dr4g> Hydrosis, what's the diff between wubi and others ? I thought this was native linux but installable via windows ?
[23:42] <blakkheim> unr3a1: is it ati?
[23:42] <pwnedulongtime> i'm never drinking again
[23:42] <unr3a1> blakkheim, nvidia gt220
[23:42] <Hydrosis> dr4g, nope.  It's close but a proper install gives you many more options.
[23:42] <blakkheim> unr3a1: using free or proprietary driver?
[23:42] <ganeshiva> my time is set to different hrs in windows and in ubuntu
[23:42] <Ziber> How can I install an iso to a virtual disk image?
[23:43] <unr3a1> blakkheim, proprietary driver right now, am trying to install nvidia's driver
[23:43] <dr4g> Hydrosis, ok can you assist me in firing up compiz ?
[23:43] <unr3a1> blakkheim, but I have to be out of xserver to do it.  which is stupid.  it should make the changes, then force a reboot.
[23:43] <Jeruvy> Ziber: just like a normal disk, assuming the disk is properly mounted in your vm.
[23:43] <pwnedulongtime>  /msg NickServ set password idiot209
[23:43] <pwnedulongtime> damn it
[23:44] <maco> ganeshiva: windows assumes your bios lists local time. the ubuntu installer shoudl have asked if yours was set to local time or UTC
[23:44] <beilabs> pwnedulongtime, lol
[23:44] <militant> Jeruvy, it just did the same thing...
[23:44] <beilabs> pwnedulongtime, backslash mate.
[23:44] <Hydrosis> dr4g, read this list of Wubi bugs --- https://bugs.launchpad.net/wubi/+bugs
[23:44] <unr3a1> so what else can I try to not boot into xserver, but still get past that initial ubuntu logo splash screen?
[23:45] <dr4g> Hydrosis, nothing for compiz there
[23:45] <JimmyJ> pwnedulongtime, you're going to run out of passwords :)
[23:45] <Dr_Willis> unr3a1:  you could edit the grub boot lines and use the options 'nosplash nofb' and delete the 'quiet' option also
[23:45] <dr4g> No results for search compiz
[23:45] <pwnedulongtime> so i came to rant: why does stuff keep changing in ubuntu just when i get things configured the way i want them?
[23:45] <ganeshiva> why is the time set in ubuntu changes when i boot to Ubuntu
[23:45] <Jeruvy> militant: check your sharing options
[23:45] <pwnedulongtime> it's rather annoying
[23:46] <zollendar> is there a log that i can see all executed commands on the system ?
[23:46] <Jeruvy> zollendar: bash history should be a hidden file in your home folder
[23:46] <Hydrosis> dr4g, have you even installed compiz and the config manager yet?
[23:46] <Dr_Willis> zollendar:  try the history command.. thats about it by defauklt
[23:47] <unr3a1> Dr_Willis, that would boot me to a command line?
[23:47] <blacklemon67> will upgrading dpkg with gdebi-gtk cause problems?
[23:47] <militant> Jeruvy, which/where?  only a few tabs and the only things that might relate to this i've tried the few options available
[23:47] <Hydrosis> dr4g, System > Preferences > Compiz Settings Manager
[23:47] <faryshta> zollendar, gnome-system-monitor
[23:47] <Hydrosis> If you want the cube, you need to enable it first...
[23:47] <zollendar> there is a script that is issuing commands to the system and i want to make sure it's doing the right thing, is history command capable of doing so?
[23:47] <dr4g> Hydrosis, don't have it
[23:47] <dr4g> brb reboot
[23:47] <Dr_Willis> unr3a1:  it disables the framebuffer and splash screen..  just disabling GDM should be getting you to a command line. Unless you are having some odd vidceo issues
[23:47] <zollendar> i'm sshing to that ubuntu machine
[23:48] <Hydrosis> dr4g, In terminal try __ sudo apt-get install compizconfig-settings-manager emerald fusion-icon __
[23:48] <maco> ganeshiva: maybe "sudo hwclock --localtime"?
[23:49] <unr3a1> Dr_Willis, well, I changed the name of the .conf file like you suggested, but that is not getting me past that initial splash screen.  which tells me that ubuntu is getting hung up on booting because of that change, not because of my video card.
[23:50] <Hydrosis> unr3a1, many people are quick to say that its not ubuntu's fault, its your fault.  I am not one of those people.  Just sit back and hope someone comes along who can help, this room gets frustrating sometimes.
[23:50] <Jeruvy> militant: I know there isn't a lot there but check them, I don't have a windows system to look at atm.
[23:50] <Arsin> Is Compiz and Flash finally work with each other in 9.10?
[23:50] <Arsin> working*
[23:50] <Hydrosis> Arsin, flash has always wored with compiz for me.
[23:50] <militant> ok.  i'll fiddle around.  again thx for the help, one of these two vnc servers has gotta do the job.
[23:50] <Arsin> Hydrosis: I  could never click the play button on Megavideo with Compiz
[23:51] <pwnedulongtime> flash is a lot better now than last distro
[23:51] <Hydrosis> Arsin: that's weird.  Very weird.  Sounds like you might have a flash blocker installed improperly in firefox.
[23:52] <unr3a1> Hydrosis, I wasn't arguing him, or getting frustrated, I was explaining to him what I understood of the situation to try and get a reason from him as to why he felt it was the video card itself.  If I came across as frustrated, I apologize, but that was not my intent
[23:52] <Dr_Willis> unr3a1:  and thats the reason for disabling the usplash and framebuffer.. so you can see the actual messages
[23:52] <seidos> can someone help me with a perl script?
[23:52] <Hydrosis> Does anyone know how to set a window to "NEVER on top" instead of "ALWAYS on top"?
[23:52] <blakkheim> seidos: #perl can
[23:52] <Dr_Willis> Hydrosis:  set to be 'always below' ? or  what do you mean exactly?
[23:53] <pwnedulongtime> Hydrosis, set the ones above it always on top
[23:53] <Hydrosis> unr3a1, I never thought you came across that way, I was simply stating the fact that its difficult in here with some people.  You dont hav to take my advise.
[23:53] <Dr_Willis> Hydrosis:  compiz has that feature to set that for indiv alls.
[23:53] <Hydrosis> Dr_Willis, yes, always below.  Exact opposite of Always on top
[23:53] <Dr_Willis> Hmm. Copying things to a usb flash drive.. and the speed has gone down to 613 KB/sec.... oddd
[23:53] <unr3a1> Dr_Willis, oh I see what you are getting at.  alright, once I can get booted again, i will disable what you suggested and then see what errors I get when booting
[23:54] <Dr_Willis> Hydrosis:  theres a  lot of features like that - that gnome has basically hidden/decided people dont need. :)
[23:54] <Hydrosis> Where in compiz can I find that, Doc?
[23:54] <dr4g> hey guys i have compiz up and running (using ccsm) there are loads of features can someone show me some good ones to get me up an running ?
[23:54] <Dr_Willis> Hydrosis:  i forget.   I set my  dialogs to always be on top the other day
[23:54] <rww> !ccsm | Hydrosis
[23:55] <Dr_Willis> !compiz | dr4g
[23:55] <Arsin> Ok I put Compiz back and yet again, the button is unclickable. Any ideas as to why? AdBlocker is disabled
[23:55] <Dr_Willis> dr4g:  explore the ccsm tool.
[23:55] <Hydrosis> rww, thanks for the useless info.
[23:55] <pwnedulongtime> Hydrosis, xfwm right click on title bar "Always below"
[23:55] <dr4g> Dr_Willis, i am, any cool ones you can recommend ? :)
[23:55] <unr3a1> Hydrosis, what advice?  all I got from that first message was that you were trying to make sure I was not getting heated or frustrated with the situation.
[23:55] <pwnedulongtime> not sure about other window managers
[23:55] <rww> Hydrosis: You're welcome.
[23:55] <Hydrosis> unr3a1, drop it.
[23:56] <unr3a1> Hydrosis, ok
[23:56] <NotTooSmart> can someone please help me with trying to make an encrypted hard-drive in ubuntu 9.10? the guide has left me lost
[23:56] <unr3a1> Dr_Willis, now all I need to do is wait for the iso to download so I can create a usb stick to boot from to correct that .conf file... lol
[23:56] <Hydrosis> pwnedulongtime, I dont have always below as an option.  What does "xfwm" mean?
[23:57] <undecim> NotTooSmart: The whole drive, or do you just need your personal files encrypted?
[23:57] <NotTooSmart> undecim, the whole drive
[23:57] <maco> ganeshiva: its something to do withthe /etc/adjtime file i think
[23:57] <dr4g> Dr_Willis, what is the "super" button on cssm ?
[23:58] <pwnedulongtime> Hydrosis, xfce window manager
[23:58] <Ziber> How can I install an iso to a virtual disk image?
[23:58] <Hydrosis> Does anyone know how to make my terminal window "always below", the exact opposite of "always on top"?
[23:58] <Hydrosis> pwnedulongtime, I dont use xfce.
[23:59] <undecim> NotTooSmart: Have look at http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/LUKS. The guide is written for Arch, but most of it applies to Ubuntu as well.
[23:59] <JacobF> for some reason, mint / ubuntu hid (I say hid because it still says it's full) lots of files on a minidrive I have, it happened a while ago but now I'm wanting some music I scored back...any tips? I tried Pandora recovery without success...
[23:59] <unr3a1> Ziber are you trying to mount a iso as a virtual cd-rom?
[23:59] <pwnedulongtime> Hydrosis, perhaps you should...it's so much faster and lightweight than most of the alternatives


[00:36] -queuebot:#ubuntu-quality- Builds: 34 entries have been added, updated or disabled
 Hello, I've just updated Kubuntu from 23.04 to 23.10 beta. The first start was pretty problematic... the first boot after the update I get tons of error messages related to the Intel Wifi then it started (2-3 minutes). When I shut down the system, it was stuck waiting for thermal.d daemon (or something similar). I had to force the shutdown. Now everything works fine with no errors at all and it's fast in
 Only that first boot had all these issues
[09:48] <guiverc> @enrico89, thanks for the report. You could file a bug report (ubuntu-bug linux probably) so there is a log of it.  Describe what happened, that it is now working etc.. If it re-occurs; there is a record/place for you to report issue with.  My 2c
 Thanks for the reply, I'll try to report it (re @ubuntu_bridge_Bot: (irc) <guiverc> @enrico89, thanks for the report. You could file a bug report (ubuntu-bug linux probably) so there is a log of it.  Describe what happened, that it is now working etc.. If it re-occurs; there is a record/place for you to report issue with.  My 2c)


[00:29] <bryce> yay xserver 1.5 is out
[00:43] <pwnguin> relevant to intrepid?
[01:03] <bryce> the changes are fairly modest, I think once the alpha-5 freeze is over it'd worth including, just for officialness
[01:03] <pwnguin> heh
[01:03] <pwnguin> well, im all for new
[01:03] <bryce> I suspect it's mostly bugfixes but only skimmed the changelog
[01:04] <pwnguin> but mdz did get a bit loud when the kernel team decided .27 was the future
[01:22] <bryce> ah, but the decision to do xserver 1.5 was made way back at UDS Prague well before Intrepid began
[01:22] <bryce> we've just been waiting for it to officially release
[01:22] <bryce> plus, the change from <IP_ADDRESS>6 to <IP_ADDRESS> is quite minor
[01:23] <bryce> we've been running with the xserver beta for quite some time.  Whereas with the kernel they were running with the stable .26 version and the jump to .27 is pretty significant (but still a good idea imho)
[01:23] <pwnguin> alrighty then. remember this when the mdz arrives ;)
[01:24] <pwnguin> i wonder why the kernel wasn't .27 from the start
[01:57] <Awsoonn> to take advantage to the restriced drivers / duelhead will I still need an Xorg.conf? I see in teh log that it detected and loaded the nv module, but appears to not be using it....
[01:59] <pwnguin> nv or nvidia?
[02:00] <Awsoonn> xorg isreporting loading nv
[02:01] <jcristau> it's not the blob, then
[02:05] <Awsoonn> so will I need the 'ol xorg.conf afterall then?
[02:06] <pwnguin> theres' been consideration of a patch that will load nvidia over nv (when nvidia is installed)
[02:08] <jcristau> that's only sensible if the fallback is fixed
[02:08] <jcristau> right now, it isn't, so nv is the safe bet
[05:12] <Awsoonn> should jockey detect my nvidia card and install the nvidia driver for me in intrepid after an upgrade? or is it not working just yet?
[06:04] <tjaalton> of course we'll get 1.5.0 in intrepid.. it's nice for a change to have an actual release in the distro >:P
[06:05] <tjaalton> that reminds me.. it should be fine to merge with lenny to get a proper release in hardy too
[06:06] <bryce> evenin' tjaalton
[06:07] <tjaalton> hey bryce

[06:07] <bryce> not feeling well?  sorry to hear
[06:08] <tjaalton> yeah, well my chair at work is pretty comfortable.. but smells bad
[06:08] <tjaalton> should only get there first ;)
[06:09] <tjaalton> hum, so videoabiver has been bumped again, rebuild madness it is then :)
[06:09] <bryce> erf
[06:09] <bryce> tjaalton: btw I wrote up a page to document quirks (only one detailed so far):  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Quirks
[06:10] <tjaalton> ah thats good.. I've looked at intel a couple of times and there seemed to be some obvious quirk-cabable bugs
[06:10] <tjaalton> but didn't know how to write one
[06:25] <tjaalton> Awsoonn: depends on your chip. if it's old enough jockey won't offer the blob because the old versions don't work with the new xserver
[06:26] <tjaalton> so no point in breaking your system
[07:06] <bryce> tjaalton: yeah I've got it on my todo list to document each of the intel quirks.  There's only 2-3 I actually understand currently
[07:07] <bryce> well, "totally understand".  Most of them I can guess what they do, but just not what situations they apply to exactly.
[07:08] <bryce> tjaalton: don't remember if I mentioned already that I did up a patch to add quirking logic to -ati  for AGP incompatibilities, so we can set AGPMode to specific values on a hw-specific basis
[07:09] <bryce> looking through our bug tracker I think a huge proportion of our -ati bugs might be fixable with this quirk
[07:12] <tjaalton> yeah that could be
[10:19] <tjaalton> is $2 fed to $foo.postinst the version being replaced?
[10:20] <jcristau> if $1 is configure, yes
[10:21] <tjaalton> ok thanks
[10:21] <tjaalton> need to clean up /etc/X11/Xsession.d/*xorg-common* in x11-common.postinst..
[10:22] <tjaalton> used to be in xinit on dapper
[10:24] <tjaalton> maybe comparing versions is overkill.. just check if the files are there and remove
[10:24] <jcristau> ideally you'd check whether they're modified
[10:27] <tjaalton> how to do that?
[10:28] <jcristau> remove_conffile_* in xsfbs.sh
[10:28] <tjaalton> ah
[10:28] <jcristau> or http://wiki.debian.org/DpkgConffileHandling
[10:30] <jcristau> that said, these files are so old it might be ok to just remove them..
[10:30] <jcristau> not sure
[10:31] <tjaalton> the md5sums aren't available, so I guess remove_conffile doesn't work then? just removing should be fine, yes
[10:31] <jcristau> weird. dpkg is supposed to keep the md5sums in its status db until the package is purged/
[10:31] <jcristau> s,/,.
[10:32] <tjaalton> in $pkg.md5sums?
[10:32] <jcristau> in /var/lib/dpkg/status
[10:32] <tjaalton> oh, status db
[10:32] <tjaalton> yeah, there they are
[10:33] <tjaalton> ok so I'll use that
[10:33] <tjaalton> maybe
[10:35] <tjaalton> yes, because it's simple
[10:39] <jcristau> xutils uses that if you want an example. remove_conffile_lookup in preinst install|upgrade, _rollback in postrm abort-*, _commit in postinst configure
[10:45] <tjaalton> ok so in this case r_c_l xinit "foo", since it was in xinit
[10:45] <jcristau> right
[10:46] <tjaalton> oh you have to run all three.. ok
[10:48] <tjaalton> hmm, I don't think in this case the rollback is needed
[10:51] <tjaalton> unless it's backported to the hardy package
[11:01] <tjaalton> ok I think it's ready
[11:33] <tjaalton> fixed the package versions and pushed it for testing on my PPA
[12:33] <Awsoonn> tjaalton: I guess old is relitive, my card is a 6800GT, is this goign to be broken in the new X server by chance?
[12:36] <tjaalton> Awsoonn: no, the latest driver should support that
[12:37] <Awsoonn> tjaalton, so would you happen to know hwo I can debug jockey to see why it thinks I don't want the blob?
[12:38] <tjaalton> Awsoonn: I think tseliot is your man for the job :)
[12:39] <Awsoonn> will ping~ Thanksl
[15:28] <soren> Remind me again: Why is it that the default Display "Virtual" setting isn't 10000x10000 so that side-by-side monitor things are just an xrandr call away?
[15:28] <pwnguin> if i were to hazard a guess
[15:28] <tjaalton> because otherwise you'd have a large desktop to scroll around?
[15:28] <pwnguin> it'd be related to the amount of video ram such insanity would allocate?
[15:28] <soren> tjaalton: Erm.. no?
[15:29] <tjaalton> ok :)
[15:29] <soren> tjaalton: That's the viewport setting, surely?
[15:29] <jcristau> soren: because otherwise you wouldn't have 3d
[15:29] <jcristau> software gl is slow
[15:29] <jcristau> plus, that would use a massive amount of memory
[15:29] <tjaalton> soren: right..
[15:29] <soren> jcristau: Wouldn't that only become a problem when I actually start using the extra virtual space?
[15:29] <jcristau> soren: no
[15:29] <soren> jcristau: Ok.
[15:32] <soren> jcristau: Just curious: Is this considered a bug? I mean... I would seem better to me if adding an extra monitor and being able to just extend your desktop onto it with xrandr would be possible, but perhaps I'm missing something.
[15:32] <soren> s/I would/It would/
[15:32] <jcristau> yes, it's considered a bug
[15:32] <soren> Ok.
[15:32] <jcristau> it's also hard
[15:32] <soren> Oh, no doubt.
[15:32] <soren> I'm deeply impressed by what xrandr does already.
[15:32] <soren> Err..
[15:33] <soren> XRANDR, that is.
[15:33] <jcristau> http://lists.freedesktop.org/pipermail/xorg/2008-September/038180.html
[15:33] <soren> xrandr isn't so spectacular in itself :)
[15:33] <jcristau> if you're interested
[15:34] <soren> I wouldn't mind sacrificing 3D capabilites on the altar of dual-head setups.
[15:46] <tseliot> soren: thanks to the work which I'm doing with bryce on the gnome-control-center all you will have to do is apply your settings, let it set the virtual resolution for you (if you wish so), log out and log in.
[15:47] <tseliot> of course you will still lose direct rendering
[15:47] <tjaalton> but only if the size is bigger than the chip supports?
[15:48] <tseliot> tjaalton: yes, of course
[15:48] <soren> tseliot: Lovely.
[15:48] <tseliot> tjaalton: i.e. bigger than the current framebuffer
[18:30] <tjaalton> bryce: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg/2008-April/034582.html
[18:31] <bdmurray> bryce: I think I'm reading to validate a series of xorg.conf files.  Is there a package with a small number of bugs I could test with?
[18:34] <tjaalton> bryce: so if we drop xorg.conf it should work
[19:10] <tjaalton> or at least the driver section..
[19:13] <bdmurray> I got impatient and I'm checking all the xserver-xorg-video-mga bugs
[19:14] <tseliot1> bdmurray: you might find a lot of interesting stuff in the reports assigned to nvidia-glx
[19:14] <tseliot1> maybe too much stuff
[19:15] <bdmurray> I wanted to test a package with a small number of bugs first to make sure everything is working right
[19:15] <bdmurray> Then I'll get crazy!
[19:15] <tseliot1> ah ok
[19:17] <bryce> bdmurray: xserver-xorg-video-nv probably doesn't have an overwhelming number
[19:34] <bdmurray> bryce: would also checking "closed" bug be helpful?
[19:34] <bryce> bdmurray: nope, only open ones
[20:38] <bdmurray> bryce: so looking at bug 5801 - which as an invalid xorg.conf - I'm not certain the best way to establish a relationship between my comment and the problematic xorg.conf
[20:39] <bryce> looking
[20:40] <bdmurray> The problem deals with the fact that 2 attachments could have the same name and the attachments aren't easily distinguishable
[20:42] <bdmurray> There are some numbers in the librarian url and in the edit url for the attachment but those are easy to find etc....
[20:42] <bryce> maybe just list the URL to it?  Or refer to the comment# that it was associated with
[20:43] <bdmurray> Got it, I'll just add an additional link to the librarian url
[20:45] <bryce> cool
[20:49] <bdmurray> in the comment I add - sound good?
[21:41] <tjaalton> bryce: yay, driver fallbacks do indeed work
[21:43] <bryce> awesome
[21:43] <tjaalton> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/17291373/Xorg.0.log (from bug 261977
[21:45] <tjaalton> it's kinda built in the xserver already.. no new magic needed, if the conf had multiple driver sections it would try them one by one until it works
[21:46] <tjaalton> so.. this should make failsafe quite a bit more straightforward
[21:48] <bryce> awesome
[21:48] <bryce> wait I said that already
[21:48] <tjaalton> hehe
[21:48] <bryce> is there any additional work you see we need to do to polish it up?
[21:50] <tjaalton> well I'd like to make sure if it's enough to just not have any Device-sections in xorg.conf
[21:50] <tjaalton> if not, there should be another way to feed options
[21:51] <tjaalton> like NoLogo for nvidia, Virtual for dualhead etc
[21:52] <tjaalton> maybe if there would be xorg.conf.d/ with files that are sourced, so that they could replace or add stuff to the default, generated configuration
[21:52] <tjaalton> (that's not a new idea)
[21:53]  * bryce nods
[21:54] <bryce> hmm
[21:54] <bryce> however on the other hand, Virtual will be going away sooner or later
[21:54] <tjaalton> well yes
[21:54] <bryce> also alberto's x-kit will be handling flipping on/off options
[21:54] <tjaalton> but if there's xorg.conf this fallback-stuff won't work
[21:55] <tjaalton> at least that's what I fear
[21:55] <tjaalton> a really hacky way would be to modify dexconf to add all the device sections
[21:56] <tjaalton> but that's... ugly
[21:56] <tjaalton> going back to the 90's
[21:57] <bryce> hmm
[22:00] <tjaalton> heck, I'll try the deb myself
[22:01] <tjaalton> hrm, gotta love (un)reliable power management with .27
[22:02] <bryce> :-/
[22:03] <bryce> yeah my laptop has started hanging on suspend/resume again
[22:03] <bryce> for a while there it was working reasonably reliably
[22:04] <tjaalton> yeah for me too
[22:04] <bryce> honestly I've been having a LOT of problems since about alpha-3/4
[22:05] <bryce> jumpy mouse pointer, flickering on starting/stopping gnome apps, boots successfully only 50% of time, strange screen corruptions, suspend/resume issues...
[22:06] <bryce> it's a bit disheartening
[22:06] <bryce> but... gives me something to do for the next month ;-)
[22:06] <tjaalton> sounds familiar.. the flickering/mouse jumping are related, somehow 945/965 are on other sides of the fence; fix one and the other breaks
[22:08] <tjaalton> although I haven't seen the flickering on 965, but mouse jumping stopped after applying the latest patch. although that made the mouse jump on 945
[22:08] <bryce> mm, yeah I last updated it friday so maybe there's a fix
[22:08] <bryce> oh, also I'm seeing the screensaver failing to come on again
[22:09] <bryce> I also can't say I'm a fan of the new power switch, where you have to go back to the gdm screen in order to shut the system off
[22:09] <bryce> since suspend/resume doesn't work, it adds extra work to shutting down the machine
[22:10] <tjaalton> yeah that sucks big time
[22:10] <tjaalton> but the new user-switch applet has an option to shutdown directly
[22:10] <bryce> oh does it?  I played with that only briefly, I'll look closer
[22:12] <tseliot1> bryce: if you click on the User Switcher in the gnome panel you can select shutdown. This should save you some time
[22:15] <tjaalton> ok, verified that the server doesn't use built-in configuration if it can find the system xorg.conf
[22:38] <tjaalton> and I think there's a simple way to use the failsafe even if you had an xorg.conf that has issues for whatever the reason.. just move it aside like now, but don't generate a stub file but use the server defaults like normally


[03:44] <pleia2> Unit193: link check? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue471
[04:25] <Unit193> "No detected broken link"
[07:05] <MooDoo> morning all
[20:55] <pleia2> tsimonq2: have some time this afternoon to do some editorial review? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue471
[20:57] <jose> lemme do a quick uodate
[20:57] <jose> I had the wrong dates for txlf
[20:58] <jose> I'm also doing edit review
[21:04] <jose> all set
[21:13] <pleia2> thanks jose :)
[23:08] <tsimonq2> pleia2: really sorry, I've been sick and this is the first time I've turned my computer on since Friday
[23:08] <tsimonq2> pleia2: you still need me to review?
[23:30] <pleia2> tsimonq2: yeah, I haven't started releasing yet
[23:30] <pleia2> hope you're feeling better!
[23:32] <tsimonq2> Ubuntu Wiki sign-in :/
[23:34] <tsimonq2> oh yay it actually worked
[23:35] <tsimonq2> pleia2: I'm not 100% yet, but I'm getting there :)
[23:36] <tsimonq2> pleia2: "On behalf of the Ubuntu Forums Council, David Pires writes to inform that vasa1 application for Ubuntu Membership was accepted:" or "On behalf of the Ubuntu Forums Council, David Pires writes to inform that vasa1's application for Ubuntu Membership was accepted:"


[00:01] <brousch1> 10" is a little too big for me though
[00:02] <brousch1> can't quite reach the middle letters on keyboard when held vertically
[00:04] <jrwren> for the osd key?
[00:04] <brousch1> right
[00:04] <brousch1> yeah, i mean a 10" tablet
[11:27] <Wolfger> party morning
[11:30] <rick_h_> morning party
[11:41] <Wolfger> So when do I make my first commit to github? I'm thinking... never.
[13:21] <rick_h_> sure...30min later..."Oh, I completely missed that giant error message so I didn't understand how things work"
[13:21] <rick_h_> READ THE TEXT THE APP SPITS OUT kthx
[13:21] <rick_h_> The next person that says "it outputs lots of stuff..." without saying wtf "Lots of stuff is" I'm going to shoot
[13:22] <snap-l> rick_h_: http://www.archive.org/details/Operatio1955
[13:22] <Wolfger> but... isn't it your job to do their thinking for them?
[13:22] <Wolfger> XD
[13:23] <rick_h_> well he gets an in freaking argument with me that "that's not what the tool is doing on my end...it's not doing that at all"
[13:24] <rick_h_> BECAUSE IT WAS ERRORING!
[13:24] <brousch> so he was right!
[13:24] <rick_h_> oh @#$#@%
[13:24] <rick_h_> but he doesn't say "hey, this is funny"
[13:25] <rick_h_> he says "Hey Rick, can you take some time to explain to me how this whole process works from top to bottom..and only after you spend all that time will I tell you the real issue is that the script your wrote for me don't work"
[13:25] <rick_h_> "and that only fails because I did stupid stuff I'm not supposed to do"
[13:26] <snap-l> And while you're at it, sudo make me a sandwich
[13:41] <Wolfger> lol
[13:56] <snap-l> I'm going to scream.
[13:57] <_stink_> uh oh
[13:57] <snap-l> Just got a note from someone about what the savings would be if our customer took over the forum support that I do
[13:57] <snap-l> Well, the savings would be my salary, and any overhead associated with it
[13:58] <_stink_> what will they pay the inanimate object that will do the job instead?
[13:58] <snap-l> I swear, that's the most tone-deaf question someone can ask
[13:59] <rick_h_> damn, that's kind of for your boss...now you
[14:00] <snap-l> I'm pretty much my boss
[14:00] <rick_h_> and hey, while you're at it, could you head over to ATT and train the guy taking your place?
[14:00] <rick_h_> send him your scripts/test tools/etc
[14:00] <snap-l> My original boss moved on.
[14:00] <snap-l> Oh, gladly.
[14:00] <rick_h_> I thought you had the new chick lady
[14:00] <snap-l> I'll send them whatever they want
[14:00] <snap-l> (original boss)
[14:01] <snap-l> New boss is more worried about positioning herself.
[14:06] <snap-l> Gah, now they're asking me what I've been working on
[14:07] <snap-l> Jesus, this is brilliant
[14:09] <brousch> "I've been working on my resume because it's obvious you asshats are going to screw me!"
[14:09] <snap-l> truth
[14:10] <snap-l> Well, now it's come under question because of contract renewal. Customer thinks they can save money by doing it in house
[14:10] <snap-l> which they can, because they've pretty much killed any momentum for it by allowing marketing to sit on it
[14:11] <snap-l> Apparently developers don't flock to web APIs like crackwhores looking for a fix.
[14:11] <snap-l> Who knew?
[14:12] <snap-l> especially when they're mobile developers that can get the same, if not better results by using the tricks they honed for the past 10+ years.
[14:22] <gamerchick02> Sorry i missed the meeting yesterday.
[14:26] <snap-l> np
[14:31] <gamerchick02> i completely forgot about it and went to the farmer's market.
[14:33] <rick_h_> farmer's market ftw
[14:33] <gamerchick02> it was good
[14:33] <gamerchick02> we got some sweet corn and cinnamon rolls.
[14:33] <gamerchick02> there's a bakery that has a table.
[14:38] <rick_h_> Blazeix: ping
[14:46] <Blazeix> rick_h_: yeh
[14:46] <Blazeix> er, hey, I'm dyslexic, apparently
[14:46] <rick_h_> hey, backbone.js question for you
[14:47] <rick_h_> trying to figure out how to add a tr to a table, but then reference it
[14:47] <rick_h_> messing with the view this.el
[14:47] <rick_h_> so trying to work out, if this.el = 'tr'
[14:47] <rick_h_> does it create a new tr then?
[14:48] <Blazeix> yes, I believe it does, so you could just append your cell elements to 'el'
[14:48] <rick_h_> ok, trying that atm, figuring out what to put intot he jquery template
[14:48] <rick_h_> what the el should be
[14:48] <rick_h_> and how to reference it after for events
[14:48] <rick_h_> and getting mixed up
[14:49] <Blazeix> so you'd give it a tagName and className
[14:49] <Blazeix> and then it constructs it, and puts a reference in 'el'
[14:50] <Blazeix> then if you want to listen to events, you'd scope it by class
[14:50] <rick_h_> ah ok.
[14:50] <rick_h_> hmmm, so since the classname is based off the model, wonder how the order is working here
[14:51] <Blazeix> you're doing a view per row, right? or is it a view for the entire table?
[14:51] <rick_h_> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/403/
[14:51] <rick_h_> view per row
[14:51] <rick_h_> that's the old template where the tr got a class based on the model record
[14:52] <rick_h_> but that doens't then have el set to anything decent
[14:55] <rick_h_> yea, can't use the model to define the className
[14:55] <rick_h_> so if I leave that out, each row replaces the one before it
[14:55] <rick_h_> and I end up with the last row as the only row to the table
[14:55] <rick_h_> ah, can pass the className directory to the view constructor
[14:56] <Blazeix> so the first thing I'd try is removing the 'el' property, and replacing it with 'tagName':tr
[14:56] <Blazeix> then removing the 'tr' from your template
[14:56] <Blazeix> this.el then _should_ be the generated 'tr', which you can then set the class name from.
[14:56] <rick_h_> there we go
[14:57] <rick_h_> moved the model from the initialized, passed a {model:t , className:t.name}
[14:57] <rick_h_> and then set the tagname like you said
[14:58] <rick_h_> awesome, and events working
[14:58] <Blazeix> ah, nice, from the parent view?
[14:58] <rick_h_> yea, just using events()
[14:59] <rick_h_> redoing my thing at work in backbone, porting the hand done events/models/etc into backbone
[14:59] <rick_h_> and mapping is taking a few
[14:59] <rick_h_> but starting to come together
[14:59] <Blazeix> awesome
[15:00] <rick_h_> yea, thanks for the help
[15:00] <rick_h_> the arrays of tutorials all do things slightly diff
[15:02] <Blazeix> yeah, i've been hanging out in #documentcloud, and the answer to "am I doing this right?" is always "does it work? then yes."
[15:03] <rick_h_> and hah
[15:03] <rick_h_> oops, hah
[15:07] <rick_h_> remembering to do .get() is killing me lol
[15:41] <gamerchick02> ugh. why do contract houses INSIST on "meeting" the candidate onsite before an interview?
[15:41] <gamerchick02> now I have to get up EVEN EARLIER and be down to Chrysler at effing 9:30 instead of 10.
[15:42] <gamerchick02> i didn't realize i needed to be baby-sat.
[15:46] <rick_h_> it's for your protection
[15:46] <rick_h_> :)
[15:46] <rick_h_> can't have you making side deals and getting around things
[15:46] <Blazeix> it's actually a ruse so they can see what car you drive. That's Important.
[15:47] <snap-l> Blazeix: Yeah, they want to make sure you're not currently driving a Chrysler vehicle.
[15:47] <snap-l> so they can try to make a sale
[15:47] <Blazeix> haha
[15:47] <snap-l> I have never seen a larger parking lot of Hondas and Toyotas in Michigan than when I worked for Chrysler
[15:48] <snap-l> few of the offshore developers bought Chrysler cars because they didn't want to take the hit selling it when they went back
[15:48] <snap-l> gamerchick02: Also, they want to make sure you don't clash with the decor.
[15:49] <gamerchick02> so i should dress in all grey with a grey hat then?
[15:49] <gamerchick02> because Chrysler is grey on the inside, unless they've changed since the last time i interviewed there
[15:50] <snap-l> gamerchick02: Nah, just dress in kid pictures and dead plants, and you should be fine
[15:50] <gamerchick02> oooh. good point.
[15:50] <gamerchick02> but i have no kids.
[15:50] <gamerchick02> and our plants are all living.
[15:50] <Blazeix> istockphoto
[15:50] <gamerchick02> good point.
[15:50] <gamerchick02> i drive a Mazda. i'd never get anything made by chrysler.
[15:51] <gamerchick02> and yes, mazda = ford, i'm aware. >_<
[15:51] <snap-l> was
[15:51] <snap-l> I think they got sold off again
[15:51] <snap-l> At least Land Rover and Jaguar did
[15:51] <gamerchick02> no, the ford fusion is a mazda6 and the ford focus is a 3i.
[15:51] <gamerchick02> land rover was a pos anyway.
[15:54] <Wolfger> Chrysler isn't gray on the inside, but your soul will be...
[15:56] <snap-l> Well, it's that multicultural gray / mauve
[15:57] <snap-l> Ok, I'm having way too much fun rolling this Zocchihedron around my desk
[15:57] <snap-l> picked one up in OH for $.25 at a resale shop
[15:58] <Wolfger> Zocchihedron?
[15:58] <snap-l> d100
[15:58] <Wolfger> huh
[15:59] <Wolfger> I would have expected it to be a centihedron or some such
[15:59] <snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zocchihedron
[16:00] <snap-l> It's named for Lou Zocchi from Game Science (makers of fine dice)
[16:00] <snap-l> I also got some round D6 dice
[16:01] <gamerchick02> Wolfger, i worked for delphi. can't get much greyer.
[16:01] <gamerchick02> also, i'll be a CONTRACT. which gets about as much respect as a high school kid sweeping the shop floor.
[16:01] <snap-l> gamerchick02: Depends on the department
[16:02] <snap-l> also, keep your badge in your wallet, and nobody knows the difference.
[16:02] <gamerchick02> yeah, but in general, contracts are shit on the ground.
[16:02] <snap-l> I felt like a real employee, save for "All Employee Meetings"
[16:02] <Wolfger> gamerchick02: I am a contract at Chrysler these past 10 years. I know.
[16:02] <snap-l> Only if you let it
[16:02] <snap-l> You're still a human being
[16:02] <gamerchick02> i don't really want to work there. i'd rather work for Piolax
[16:02] <snap-l> http://ubuntuone.com/22ecut5wZy5w1L1PtQjMzc <- Round D6
[16:02] <gamerchick02> no call back yet, but there was a holiday recently.
[16:03] <gamerchick02> i hope to hear more by tomorrow or something.
[16:03] <Wolfger> snap-l: I've seen those before. Nifty toy, but I wouldn't want to roll them with any frequency.
[16:04] <snap-l> This one stops pretty well
[16:04] <Wolfger> same with the zocchihedron, for that matter
[16:04] <gamerchick02> i'd love to be able to tell this contract place where to shove their low paying job with no benefits.
[16:04] <snap-l> It's like rolling a golfball with shot to help make it stop
[16:04] <Wolfger> gamerchick02: they can shove it right up your bank account because you're desperate? :-D
[16:04] <gamerchick02> ;) probalby
[16:05] <Wolfger> so what/where are you applying?
[16:05] <gamerchick02> it's through RGBSI. product engineer job, essentially what i did at delphi but different parts, etc
[16:06] <Wolfger> Well, good luck.  *ZING*
[16:12] <gamerchick02> i'm horrible.
[16:12] <gamerchick02> sorry.
[16:12] <snap-l> Well, and you get fucked every day as a contractor.
[16:13] <gamerchick02> Wolfger, my comment related to you getting paid more... sorry, didn't mean to make you mad.
[16:13] <snap-l> but at least you get insurance for VD
[16:13] <snap-l> so it evens out
[16:13] <gamerchick02> "UGH, GIVE IT TO ME HARDER, UUUUUH"
[16:13]  * gamerchick02 is HORRIBLE
[16:13] <gamerchick02> i use condoms.
[16:13] <gamerchick02> hah!
[16:14] <gamerchick02> seriously, i'd rather be single at this point in my life... no guy to have to pick up after.
[16:14] <gamerchick02> but a job, i'd like that.
[16:15] <gamerchick02> i just hate that it's like dating. it's disgusting.
[16:15] <snap-l> It's business.
[16:15] <gamerchick02> yes, please abuse me on the first date. since i've been dateless for the past 2 years, i will pretty much do whatever you want if you propose right now.
[16:15] <snap-l> Also, business is like high school.
[16:16] <Wolfger> snap-l: Too late... my bad behavior has already been encouraged, and I'm asking an artist friend of mine to design a t-shirt out of it.
[16:16] <snap-l> so you have that to look forward to as well. :)
[16:16] <gamerchick02> no shit. i got used to stinking of it when i was at Delphi.
[16:16] <snap-l> I think we need to start the IRC collective or something
[16:16] <gamerchick02> my problem? i hate politics (in all forms, national all the way down to office).
[16:17] <gamerchick02> i think i need to give up and start smoking weed on the couch.
[16:17] <snap-l> because we're clearly not employable. :)
[16:17] <Wolfger> gamerchick02: the comment only annoyed me because you're starting at $25 theoretically, and I make slightly under that *after* my first raise... But, different jobs, so different pay scales.
[16:17] <gamerchick02> wolfger, a guy in my position at delphi would have made $20.
[16:18] <gamerchick02> and he wouldn't have had admin assistant on his pay stubs.
[16:18] <gamerchick02> no, i'm not STARTING. at $25. they're starting negotiation at $25.
[16:18] <Wolfger> ah
[16:18] <gamerchick02> which means i'll be closer to the $20 mark, and probably lower. since i'm female. and not worth more.
[16:19] <gamerchick02> and since i'll have to carry insurance thanks to 'bamacare, i'm sure my net will go down to probably something like $10/hr
[16:19] <Wolfger> well, IMO, you need to quit thinking that way. It may or may not be true, but if you are thinking that going into things, you're handicapping yourself
[16:20] <gamerchick02> perhaps, but ranting about it actually helps.
[16:20] <gamerchick02> i'm grumpy today.
[16:20] <Wolfger> rant away then :-)
[16:20] <Wolfger> besides, what do I know? I'm just a man.
[16:20] <gamerchick02> feel free to beat me with pointy sticks, as i probably deserve it. especially today. i've been horrible to people in here.
[16:20] <Wolfger> woot!
[16:20] <gamerchick02> no, i count you as a friend. you know more than me. plenty more than me.
[16:21]  * gamerchick02 hugs Wolfger
[16:21] <Wolfger> hey, cut that out
[16:21] <gamerchick02> he he!
[16:21] <Wolfger> I can't beat you with pointy sticks if I'm being hugged
[16:21] <gamerchick02> true. but that was my point!!
[16:21] <gamerchick02> :-D
[16:21]  * gamerchick02 hugs everyone in here
[16:23] <gamerchick02> is anyone else in here looking forward to fall as much as i am?
[16:23] <Wolfger> fall is here, weather-wise, and I am loving it
[16:24] <gamerchick02> as am i. cuddly sweaters! jeans! jackets!
[16:24] <gamerchick02> i can hardly wait to pull out my long wool coat.
[16:24] <rick_h_> I want the rain to stop
[16:24] <rick_h_> must ride bike...
[16:25] <rick_h_> but +1 on the temps
[16:25] <gamerchick02> go out and start singing.
[16:25] <gamerchick02> i recommend a grey suit and fedora and an umbrella.
[16:25] <gamerchick02> and you'll need a lamppost.
[16:25] <gamerchick02> "Come on with the rain, there's a smile on my face"
[16:25] <gamerchick02> oh dear god, i think I've listened to that song too much when i can almost quote it word for word.
[16:27] <Wolfger> :-)
[16:28] <gamerchick02> oh, Gene Kelly, you will never know what you've done to me...
[16:30] <snap-l> I wish that some Apple engineer would take a picture of a bowel movement with an iPhone 5, and upload it to Flickr
[16:30] <snap-l> leave it not-private for about 5 hours
[16:30] <snap-l> then make it private
[16:30] <rick_h_> lol
[16:31] <snap-l> watching the tech news sites wax poetic over a bowl of shit would be awesome
[16:31] <snap-l> "Look at the camera resolution"
[16:35] <gamerchick02> omg. snap-l that's awesome.
[16:42] <gamerchick02> http://feministing.com/2011/09/08/on-being-a-chef-a-woman-and-the-need-for-safe-spaces/ relevant to everyone.
[16:46] <Wolfger> Man, what is it with my mind today? First it was The Ramones, now it's offshore support's name. Kumar Kandregula.... Kandregula. OMG, I'm getting support from Count Dracula?!?
[16:47] <snap-l> Wolfger: Maybe you should stop drinking at 10am
[16:50] <Wolfger> snap-l: maybe I should *start* drinking at 10am
[16:50] <gamerchick02> lol @ wolfger.
[16:51] <gamerchick02> time for lunch. back later
[17:32] <rick_h_> Blazeix: I've got a property on a model that's a list. So model.triggers = [] is the default
[17:32] <rick_h_> and then I'm doing a "add_trigger" method to append to it
[17:32] <rick_h_> do you know of any way around .set({})
[17:32] <rick_h_> ?
[17:32] <rick_h_> else I'll have to get it, append, and then reset it?
[17:36] <Blazeix> I'm just starting to look into that myself (that's why I was poking around the backbonejs-hierarchical library earlier)
[17:37] <Blazeix> So far my models have been pretty simple, I don't really have a system in place that handles it
[17:37] <rick_h_> yea, I just pulled it, appended it, and put it back for now
[17:37] <rick_h_> I need to dbl check events now
[17:38] <rick_h_> if you .bind('change') several times does it overwrite or play nice and call multiple?
[17:39] <rick_h_> ah cool, does a list yay
[17:53] <gamerchick02> http://users.wolfcrews.com/toys/vikings/ relevant.
[18:08] <rick_h_> woot! it works, feature parity reached
[18:08] <rick_h_> love the model change events
[18:09] <snap-l> gamerchick02: Why?
[18:09] <gamerchick02> what? viking cats are always relevant
[18:09] <gamerchick02> not to this discussion, but to our lives.
[18:09] <gamerchick02> :)
[18:10] <Wolfger> viking kittens are awesome
[18:10] <gamerchick02> i'm feeling better after lunch. the cobwebs are starting to go away.
[18:10] <Wolfger> snap-l: because it rulez!
[18:10] <gamerchick02> my brain feels better now.
[18:10] <gamerchick02> i thought Wolfger would be in my corner. :-D
[18:12] <Blazeix> vikings are a metaphor for backbone.js, and kittens represent the MVC architectural pattern.
[18:12] <Blazeix> duh
[18:12] <gamerchick02> i didn't know that.
[18:13] <Wolfger> so backbone.js makes MVC awesome?
[18:13] <Wolfger> what does the Led Zepplin tune represent?
[18:15] <snap-l> That we're migrating to backbone.js in droves
[18:15] <snap-l> We're immigrants from our other languages that have already been plundered and pillaged
[18:15] <Blazeix> I saw yesterday that both the new HTML5 pandora and the linkedin phone app are written in backbone. pretty cool
[18:16] <Wolfger> huh
[18:16] <rick_h_> Blazeix: yea, it's more LoC than I had before, but love how the events are nice/grouped
[18:16] <rick_h_> the view/model is split
[18:16] <rick_h_> I could makes things better by doing collections, but skipped that for now
[18:17] <Wolfger> maybe I just don't pay attention to web stuff anymore, but I haven't heard of backbone until.... uh... 2 minutes ago? :-p
[18:17] <rick_h_> what's awesome is it all just init's and it's all events after that
[18:17] <rick_h_> Wolfger: it's all the rage for the last 3wk
[18:17] <Wolfger> so, like, forever in web terms :-D
[18:18] <brousch> Wolfger: don't feel too bad. i do pay attention and heard about it 2 weeks ago
[18:18] <Wolfger> "you're still using what? That is *so* 4 weeks ago..."
[18:23] <gamerchick02> lol wolfger
[18:24] <gamerchick02> i hadn't heard about it, but then again i don't pay much attention to computer languages. I'm horrible, i know.
[18:24] <snap-l> I have turned on my Thinkpad's light (work thinkpad)
[18:24] <gamerchick02> oh dear god, that cake smells good.
[18:24] <snap-l> Partially because it's dark, and partially because I can
[18:24] <gamerchick02> my mom's making a spice cake for the burrito dinner tomorrow.
[18:24] <gamerchick02> you have a light on your computer?
[18:24] <gamerchick02> how epic.
[18:24] <snap-l> Yes, yes I do
[18:25] <snap-l> it's the answer to the Mac backlit keyboard.
[18:25] <gamerchick02> but... my mom's making a spice cake!
[18:25] <Blazeix> hm, can you control that light from software? it'd be interesting to hook it up to libnotify :)
[18:25] <gamerchick02> i have no light on my computer. *sadface*
[18:25] <gamerchick02> ooooh. that would be cool!
[18:25] <snap-l> Blazeix: I wouldn't see why you couldn't, but I don't know how
[18:26] <Wolfger> Blazeix++
[18:26] <Blazeix> I think I have that light on my lappy, too. I think it's been turned on once, maybe.
[18:27] <snap-l> I think it's part of the T series
[18:27] <snap-l> there's a keypress that might turn it on under Linux
[18:27] <Wolfger> Blazeix: and the answer is, yes you can. http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/ThinkLight
[18:28] <snap-l> honestly, I never tried when I had Ubuntu on this machine
[18:30] <Blazeix> Wolfger: nice
[18:31] <snap-l> OK, I really love King Crimson's Vroom album
[18:33] <rick_h_> Blazeix: yea, there's a pidgin plugin to do it
[18:33] <rick_h_> so that it blinks that light whenever you get a message
[18:34] <Wolfger> would be annoying if you're working in the dark with your light on and it starts blinking, though
[18:37] <rick_h_> meh, I used it for new messages long ago
[18:37] <snap-l> you'd know you had a message. :)
[18:37] <rick_h_> now my laptop is docked so I don't see the light anyway
[18:37] <rick_h_> bwuhaha, showed the boss the backbone stuff and now it's going to be class time
[18:38] <Wolfger> I sense more quality time with NC in your future
[18:38] <rick_h_> nooooooooo
[18:38] <rick_h_> he rose up again earilier "how come this command doesn't work? It says it cannot find a _build directory?"
[18:38] <rick_h_> "do you have the default sphinx _build directory?"
[18:39] <rick_h_> "no, I tell sphinx I don't want one, I like it this way vs default"
[18:39] <gamerchick02> sphinx_build? for real?
[18:39] <rick_h_> well...ima guess that's the problem
[18:39] <rick_h_> now, _build is the dir that sphinx creates if you go defaults
[18:39] <rick_h_> he was mad my script failed because he didn't use the defaults
[18:39] <gamerchick02> when I think of sphinx, i think of the stone cat things in Egypt.
[18:40] <rick_h_> heh, no, sphinx the python documentation tool
[18:43] <gamerchick02> :) very cool.
[18:43] <rick_h_> cat people :P
[18:44] <Wolfger> LOL
[18:44] <gamerchick02> i'm allergic. the only reason i say that is because of Nile. the sphinx is one of our unofficial symbols.
[18:45] <gamerchick02> but i do love kitties! too bad i'm allergic to them. i'd probably have one.
[18:45] <Wolfger> I'd be happy to give you one
[18:46] <Wolfger> I'm down to 3, and one of them I don't much like
[18:46] <Wolfger> and I think it's safe to say we'll probably never have another cat after these 3 pass.
[18:46] <rick_h_> +1
[18:46] <rick_h_> worst mistake ever
[18:47] <Wolfger> I've had some really cool cats. Still have one of them.  Which is why we don't like her
[18:50] <gamerchick02> oh. well, i'd need to take some time and meet the cat first.
[18:50] <gamerchick02> like sit on your computer? or something?
[18:50] <Wolfger> We had five, a couple of them passed away, and then we rescued a couple from a friend's house when her dog mauled one of them.
[18:51] <gamerchick02> eep. sounds like you've got a good kitty heart! :)
[18:51] <Wolfger> and one more passed, and we found a home for one of the rescues
[18:51] <Wolfger> so... down to 3, hoping to get down to 2
[18:52] <gamerchick02> well, if i end up getting one of these jobs, i'll have to take a look.
[18:52] <gamerchick02> you have a dog too? some cats and dogs get on really well.
[18:52] <Wolfger> That would be great!
[18:52] <snap-l> "Keep on Rotting in the Free World" by Carcass
[18:52] <Wolfger> I am down to 4 dogs
[18:52] <gamerchick02> 4 dogs. wow!
[18:52] <gamerchick02> you've got a zoo!
[18:52] <Wolfger> The cats and the Great Dane get along great.
[18:53] <gamerchick02> not as bad as my friend's daughter Amy. they have goats, cats, a dog, and chickens now
[18:53] <snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiXwatdG30Y
[18:53] <Wolfger> The 3 basenjis have a high prey drive, though, and chase the cats.
[18:53] <gamerchick02> yes, they live on a farm
[18:53] <gamerchick02> snap-l, there's a band called Carcass?
[18:53] <Wolfger> big dogs > little dogs
[18:54] <snap-l> gamerchick02: there's bands called much worse.
[18:54] <gamerchick02> oi.
[18:54] <gamerchick02> i know.
[18:54] <gamerchick02> some bands don't make sense with their name.
[18:54] <snap-l> Bring Me the Horizon
[18:54] <snap-l> Suicide Silence
[18:54] <snap-l> hate those names
[18:54] <snap-l> Alexisonfire
[18:54] <gamerchick02> strange names.
[19:12] <jrwren> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_IGuUsqJwQ
[19:14] <snap-l> Apparently a hot topic exploded in Germany
[19:14] <jrwren> lol.
[19:16] <snap-l> jrwren: Reminds me of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aS-gGYaA8F0&ob=av3e
[19:19] <jrwren> haha, me too.
[19:19] <jrwren> sadly, Monday nights at necto is more like the former than the latter.
[19:19] <snap-l> Yeah, I can imagine
[19:20] <jrwren> you just reminded me that SP Rabies is only 3 yrs away in my playlist :)
[19:20] <jrwren> err... 5 hrs... I guess I'll get to it tomorrow.
[19:21] <snap-l> Man that's a major playlist.
[19:28] <snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eL7T3apuzQU&feature=BFa <-The Afternoon cries for Metal
[19:44] <gamerchick02> the afternoon cries for metal?
[20:05] <brousch> snap-l: don't you use blender? this looks up your alley http://ht.ly/1eBkpk
[20:09] <TeamXlink> Wow, its amazing the up time of computers that people have.
[20:10] <TeamXlink> If anyones on the grlug mailing list, you should read the "Moment of Silence" thread it is amazing, the archive of it is here: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/2011-September/thread.html (I would link directly to it, but it isn't in one link.)
[20:11] <TeamXlink> This was something someone said:
[20:11] <TeamXlink> "Phil - that is funny you bring up that story. IBM iSeries/AS/400/i5 sales/service/administration people used to (and maybe still do) tell a similar story about a AS/400 that was dry walled into a closet for years... only to be found when they needed to do a system upgrade."
[20:11] <TeamXlink> ./end quote
[20:12] <TeamXlink> That is amazing to think a computer being dry walled in a closet still running for that long!
[20:12] <gamerchick02> whoa. and i shut my laptop off at night.
[20:12] <gamerchick02> so it's only uptime is like 8-12 hours at most.
[20:13] <_stink_> does a linode count?  i'm not exactly responsible for the power and stuff... but 266 days
[20:13] <_stink_> not that it's a contest.
[20:14] <TeamXlink> I currently run a Linux dedicated erver running Warsow (Before that it was Quake 3), and its uptime is until our power goes out.
[20:15] <brousch> TeamXlink: Ben Rousch started that?  Fuck him right in the neck.
[20:16] <_stink_> yeah
[20:16] <devinheitmueller> heh
[20:16] <TeamXlink> ./me doesn't think its good to hate yourself, if I understand this correctly.
[20:17]  * TeamXlink doesn't think its good to hate yourself, if I understand this correctly.
[20:17] <TeamXlink> At school today we had to do a pretest on the computers in Civics class. and I noticed that in the lab we were in, it didn't have Microsoft Office.
[20:17] <TeamXlink> It had OpenOffice.
[20:17] <brousch> it wasn't meant to to turn into a uptime penis measuring contest, but such things usually end up that way
[20:18] <brousch> what scool?
[20:20] <TeamXlink> East Kentwood High School
[20:20] <TeamXlink> I'
[20:20] <TeamXlink> m not sure if its on all of the computers in the school but it was on the ones in that lab.
[20:20] <brousch> nice
[20:22] <brousch> TeamXlink: did you know there's an active grlug irc channel?
[20:22] <TeamXlink> No, I didn't
[20:22] <TeamXlink> Sweet!
[20:23]  * TeamXlink goes to set that one up to autojoin as well.
[20:24] <snap-l> brousch: The Blender Game Engine has been a part of Blender since the 1.x series
[20:25] <brousch> so use it!
[20:25] <brousch> and the python3 scripting engine
[20:29] <jrwren> brousch: I don't think Bob Kline has his numbers right :)
[20:30] <brousch> jrwren: don't go there. BK is special
[20:30] <jrwren> k
[20:42] <tyrok> Hi!  Heard about the channel and thought I'd drop by.
[20:43] <Blazeix> hey!
[20:43] <snap-l> Welcome
[21:05] <snap-l> Have I mentioned lately that I really hate SOAP and XML?
[22:39] <gamerchick02> SOAP?
[22:40] <snap-l> Shitty Object Assinine Protocol
[22:40] <snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SOAP
[23:43] <widox> hey-o
[23:43] <widox> visiting our old madison heights caribou this evening
[23:43] <snap-l> Oh, nice
[23:45] <rick_h_> woo
[23:45] <gamerchick02> lol snap-l