[18:00] <mdeslaur> \o
[18:00] <tyhicks> hello
[18:00] <jjohansen> o/
[18:01] <mdeslaur> sbeattie, micahg: wake up
[18:01] <micahg> o/
[18:01] <sbeattie> hey
[18:02] <mdeslaur> hehe
[18:02] <mdeslaur> #startmeeting
[18:02] <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jun 11 18:02:01 2012 UTC.  The chair is mdeslaur. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[18:02] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[18:02] <mdeslaur> The meeting agenda can be found at:
[18:02] <mdeslaur> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
[18:02] <mdeslaur> [TOPIC] Announcements
[18:02] <mdeslaur> No announcements!
[18:02] <mdeslaur> [TOPIC] Review of any previous action items
[18:02] <mdeslaur> No previous action items.
[18:02] <mdeslaur> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
[18:02] <mdeslaur> I'll go first
[18:02] <mdeslaur> I'm on community this week. I'm off on thursday and friday
[18:03] <mdeslaur> I'm currently working on mysql updates which should be out today
[18:03] <mdeslaur> and have some other stuff queued up behind that
[18:03] <mdeslaur> and wednesday I'm on patch piloting duty
[18:03] <mdeslaur> that's it for me. sbeattie
[18:03] <mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're up!
[18:04] <sbeattie> I'm on triage this week
[18:04] <sbeattie> I'll also be working on synchronizing the versions of openjdk 6 for the older releases
[18:05] <mdeslaur> buildd DoS :)
[18:05] <sbeattie> heh, yeah
[18:06] <sbeattie> I need to get the apparmor SRU for precise back on the front burner, it keeps falling behind the stove.
[18:06] <sbeattie> I think that's it for me.
[18:06] <sbeattie> micahg: you're up
[18:06] <micahg> sbeattie: you don't want to look behind my stove ;)
[18:07] <micahg> anyways, looking into potential regressions in the pending thunderbird 13 update, then back to webkit, with a side of chromium hopefully if my fix for the translations issue works
[18:07] <micahg> I was asked by the Thunderbird QA team if we can get some Ubuntu folk helping with Thunderbird QA test days, next one is here: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird:QA_TestDay:2012-06-14
[18:08] <micahg> Knowing that our builds work up front helps us push out the release faster as we shouldn't be running into show stoppers after the final builds are spun
[18:08] <micahg> people can use the ppa:mozillateam/thunderbird-next builds for the Thunderbird QA test day
[18:09] <micahg> if there are no questions, I'll pass the baton to tyhicks
[18:09] <tyhicks> I'm in the happy place this week
[18:11] <tyhicks> I am still trying to get all of my ecryptfs patches out to the list. The number of patches grew last week because a fuzzer keeps hitting a BUG() in the /dev/ecryptfs code. I've got that fixed now, too.
[18:11] <tyhicks> The LUKS work item is still next on my list
[18:11] <tyhicks> then I'll get back to updates
[18:11] <tyhicks> that's it for me
[18:11] <tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
[18:13] <jjohansen> okay, I need to finish up some last minute testing on an embargoed issue, and then I need to get back to my essential work items
[18:13]  * jjohansen was thinking of working on set perm tracking
[18:14] <jjohansen> oh and I suppose I need to update work items, /me hasn't been doing that for the last couple of weeks
[18:14] <mdeslaur> jjohansen: that would be nice, yeah :)
[18:14] <jjohansen> I think that is it from /me back to you mdeslaur
[18:15] <mdeslaur> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
[18:15] <mdeslaur> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
[18:15] <mdeslaur> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
[18:15] <mdeslaur> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/putty.html
[18:15] <mdeslaur> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/dropbear.html
[18:15] <mdeslaur> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/smsclient.html
[18:15] <mdeslaur> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/netsurf.html
[18:15] <mdeslaur> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libphp-adodb.html
[18:15] <mdeslaur> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
[18:15] <mdeslaur> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
[18:16] <mdeslaur> ok, that's it
[18:16] <mdeslaur> thanks everyone!
[18:16] <mdeslaur> <thank all participants>
[18:16] <mdeslaur> whoops :)
[18:16] <jjohansen> thanks mdeslaur
[18:16] <mdeslaur> #endmeeting
[18:16] <meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jun 11 18:16:26 2012 UTC.
[18:16] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-06-11-18.02.moin.txt
[18:16] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-06-11-18.02.html
[18:18] <sbeattie> thanks mdeslaur!
[20:57] <mdz> cjwatson, please tell me the TB meeting is nowish, and not an hour ago or an hour hence :-)
[21:01]  * kees hopes it's now too
[21:02] <soren> o/
[21:02] <soren> mdz: It's supposed to be now, at least.
[21:08] <kees> there's nothing on the agenda from what I can see. meet again in two weeks then?
[21:09] <mdz> fine by me
[21:56] <stgraber> mdz, kees, soren: sorry for missing the TB meeting, in the middle of a (virtual) sprint and didn't see my phone meeting notification until now...


[05:56] <seb128> good morning desktopers
[05:56] <jibel> salut seb128, ça va?
[05:56] <seb128> lut jibel, ouais bien, et toi ?
[05:57] <jibel> bien bien, merci
[05:59] <duflu> Morning seb128, jibel
[05:59] <seb128> hey duflu, how are you?
[06:00] <duflu> seb128, considering I hardly slept, going OK. Expect to crash later. You?
[06:00] <seb128> oh :(
[06:00] <duflu> I feel good still so it's fine
[06:01] <seb128> I didn't sleep enough, got woken up at 4am and didn't manage to really get back to sleep :/
[06:01] <seb128> let's see how the day goes
[06:02] <jibel> hi duflu
[06:03] <didrocks> good morning
[06:03] <duflu> Morning didrocks
[06:03] <seb128> lut didrocks! comment ça va ?
[06:04] <jibel> salut didrocks
[06:06] <didrocks> hey duflu, seb128, jibel
[06:06] <didrocks> seb128: un peu mieux qu'hier niveau oreille (relativement parlant hein), et toi ?
[06:07] <seb128> ça va, me suis fait réveiller en milieu de nuit et j'ai eu du mal à me rendormir donc un peu fatigué ce matin
[06:07] <seb128> coffe is going to resolve it, no worry :)
[06:08] <didrocks> heh
[06:08] <seb128> trevinho, stop unassigning andyrock from bugs please
[06:08] <seb128> Trevinho, I would prefer to be able to see what he assigned and find other owners for work we signed up for doing, rather than loosing the info
[06:21] <oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
[06:24] <didrocks> salut oSoMoN
[06:29] <oSoMoN> salut didrocks, ça va?
[06:29] <duflu> Morning oSoMoN
[06:31] <oSoMoN> hey duflu
[06:32]  * oSoMoN -> school, bbiab
[06:34] <didrocks> oSoMoN: ça va, et toi ?
[07:23] <oSoMoN> didrocks, très bien
[07:42] <marcustomlinson> good morning all
[07:43] <duflu> Morning marcustomlinson
[07:48] <oSoMoN> morning marcustomlinson
[07:53] <willcooke> morning all
[07:53] <duflu> Morning willcooke
[07:53] <willcooke> afternoon duflu, how goes?
[07:54] <duflu> willcooke, good news in that I am now back to working on pre-Brussels work I hadn't finished
[07:54] <willcooke> heh
[07:54] <duflu> How are you feeling now willcooke?
[07:54] <willcooke> still not 100%, but getting better
[07:54] <willcooke> I blame the plane
[07:56] <duflu> Yep
[07:57] <oSoMoN> good morning willcooke
[07:57] <willcooke> hi oSoMoN
[08:01] <didrocks> hey willcooke
[08:01] <willcooke> morning didrocks
[08:03] <Laney> yo thar
[08:03] <didrocks> hey Laney, good Monday off?
[08:05] <Laney> hey didrocks
[08:05] <duflu> Morning Laney
[08:05] <Laney> yep, lazy one :>
[08:06] <Laney> yo duflu
[08:09] <pieq> Hey everyone
[08:10] <seb128> hey willcooke Laney
[08:10] <seb128> hey pieq
[08:10] <seb128> willcooke, do you feel better?
[08:10] <willcooke> hi seb128, pieq
[08:10] <willcooke> and Laney
[08:10] <pieq> I was playing with the grub menu configuration today and I was wondering why we don't have something a little bit more fancy in the live USB menu and later, if for instance the user has a dual boot or something like this
[08:10] <willcooke> seb128, getting there, but still not cured.
[08:11] <seb128> :(
[08:11] <didrocks> hey pieq
[08:11] <seb128> pieq, #ubuntu-devel might be a better channel to talk about grub, it's more foundation than desktop material
[08:12] <Laney> think those are generated statically, not sure how much scope there would be to do fancy dynamic stuff
[08:12] <Laney> but that channel indeed
[08:12] <Laney> moin willcooke seb128
[08:12] <Laney> willcooke: you spent the bank holiday being sick? :'(((((((((((
[08:12] <pieq> seb128, thanks!
[08:12] <willcooke> Laney, yeah, and a day I booked off on Friday
[08:12] <Laney> ahh
[08:13] <Laney> I think you could probably reclaim that day of PTO
[08:13] <Laney> https://www.gov.uk/taking-sick-leave second paragraph
[08:13] <Laney> thanks gov.uk
[08:13] <Laney> thov.uk
[08:13] <seb128> :)
[08:28] <pieq> Laney, whoo, that's pretty cool!
[08:31] <seb128> kenvandine, jamesh, Laney, marcustomlinson, weekly summary reminder (I know most of you had monday off, but you could have written it on friday! ;)
[08:31] <marcustomlinson> literally just hit submit :P
[08:31] <jamesh> okay.
[08:32] <seb128> marcustomlinson, thx :)
[08:32] <seb128> jamesh, thx!
[08:33] <Laney> dunno about you but I'm not thinking about that on a friday
[08:33] <Laney> and yes, already writing it
[08:34] <Laney> I've seen the community hub notifying when people are writing posts
[08:36] <seb128> it does?
[08:36] <seb128> yeah, I'm usually not thinking about it on friday either, in theory we said in the team discussion that it can be written during the week and should posted before monday, so earlier in monday is off ... but it's minor don't worry
[08:37] <seb128> in practice we don't get much feedback/questions for the eastern people anyway
[09:10] <seb128> duflu, trevinho, looks like apport doesn't catch errors like https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-shell/issues/1062 ... I wonder if we could make it aware of JS errors in some way
[09:10] <gitbot> GNOME issue 1062 in gnome-shell "Crash for certain entries in org.gnome.clocks world-clocks" [1. Crash, Closed]
[09:10] <seb128> JS ERROR: TypeError: b.location.get_timezone(...) is null
[09:10] <duflu> seb128, not at all, or just not readable?
[09:11] <seb128> duflu, not at all, apport has no handler to catch those
[09:11] <seb128> I get nothing in apport.log or /var/crash when I hit that bug
[09:11] <seb128> which is expected, apport does handle coredumps
[09:11] <duflu> Hmm
[09:11] <seb128> there is none in that scenario
[09:12] <seb128> unsure how the pythong integration works but we would probably need something similar in js
[09:12] <duflu> seb128, the upstream bug suggests gnome-shell exits instead of crashing ("App 'org.gnome.Shell.desktop' exited with code 1")
[09:12] <seb128> right
[09:12] <seb128> still you get no session/way to log in
[09:12] <seb128> we would like to know about those issues
[09:12] <duflu> Yeah
[09:13] <seb128> or maybe gnome-shell should assert() rather than exit in those cases
[09:13] <seb128> I don't know enough about the topic to have an opinion on what is right
[09:13] <seb128> I'm going to add a trello card to our backlog though
[09:14] <duflu> seb128, looks like maybe GjsContextPrivate::eval ?
[09:14] <duflu> is exiting
[09:15] <seb128> could be, I didn't look into the code details
[09:15] <Laney> python has an exception hook that you can hang your code onto
[09:16] <seb128> could we do something similar to gjs? (and do we want apport noise for any js exception?)
[09:16] <seb128> anyway, probably not a technically discussion useful to have here/with me
[09:16] <seb128> I'm going to add that backlog card
[09:17] <Laney> dunno
[09:17] <duflu> seb128, I'm not entirely sure it's a good idea to automatically report those. errors.ubuntu.com will group ANY JS exception under the same error signature
[09:17] <Laney> would discuss that with ptomato
[09:17] <seb128> duflu, it's not true for python, the signature include the functions in the stacktrace?
[09:17] <Laney> you'd be able to set fields of the problem report as you wanted
[09:17] <duflu> This is JavaScript
[09:18] <Laney> the handler constructs the error report, given access to the exception
[09:20] <duflu> Ah yes, I forgot I had seen those
[09:20] <seb128> duflu, Laney, https://trello.com/c/FdmSCCH6/135-gnome-shell-exiting-on-a-js-error-doesnt-trigger-apport
[09:21] <Laney> thx
[09:21] <duflu> Cool. I was thinking the other day we still have some "crashes don't create crash reports" problems
[09:23] <seb128> trevinho, ^ that bug is probably worth doing another SRU upload imho, well I tagged it rls-dd-incoming so we can discuss it in the meeting later
[09:23] <seb128> but basically you add a world location and you get no way to log into your session anymore (unless you know how to go to a vt and reset the right gsettings key)
[10:07] <willcooke> 19.04 is live in the Hyper V quick create gallery
[10:07] <willcooke> good work kenvandine
[10:08] <kenvandine> :)
[10:09] <marcustomlinson> nice!
[10:10] <kenvandine> seb128: i posted mine 5 days ago :)
[10:11] <kenvandine> but that's not complete
[10:15] <seb128> kenvandine, good morning, thx :)
[10:15] <seb128> kenvandine, it failed? I see no post from you
[10:35] <duflu> Heh. It must be dinner time then
[10:35] <duflu> Night
[10:35] <willcooke> see you duflu
[11:04] <seb128> Laney, trevinho, should we sync the new gjs 1.56 from experimental to eoan or did you want to stick on what we have for a bit to e.g facilate SRUs or something
[11:05] <Laney> no plans, syncing sounds good to me
[11:05] <seb128> thx
[11:05] <Laney> I more than half considered trying to do it for disco
[11:06] <Laney> but in the end moved away from it
[11:06] <seb128> :)
[11:07] <seb128> tjaalton, similar question for vulkan-loader, any reason to not sync the update from experimental? (did you put it there for stability reason or for unstable-frezze reasons)?
[11:15] <tjaalton> freeze reasons
[11:15] <tjaalton> no reason not to sync I think
[11:16] <tjaalton> seb128: ^
[11:16] <seb128> tjaalton, thx, I'm syncing then :)
[11:57] <GunnarHj> Hi oSoMoN, I noticed your update of chromium-browser which fixes bug #1825497. Are SRUs in pipeline?
[11:57] <ubot5`> bug 1825497 in chromium-browser (Ubuntu) "flash player does not work in chromium" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1825497
[12:15] <oSoMoN> GunnarHj, yes, they are ready and should hit the -security and -updates pockets soon
[12:20] <GunnarHj> oSoMoN: Great, thanks! Looked in -proposed and the queues; not familiar with how security updates are accomplished.
[13:30] <seb128> k, that day and time again!
[13:30] <seb128> #startmeeting Desktop Team Meeting - 2019-05-07
[13:30] <meetingology> Meeting started Tue May  7 13:30:49 2019 UTC.  The chair is seb128. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[13:30] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[13:31] <seb128> Roll call: didrocks, duflu (out), jamesh (out), jibel, kenvandine, laney, marcustomlinson, oSoMoN, tkamppeter, trevinho, robert_ancell (out)
[13:31] <marcustomlinson> \o
[13:31] <didrocks> hey
[13:31] <kenvandine> \o
[13:31] <seb128> no andyrock this time, if you read that log we miss you!
[13:31] <seb128> anyway, let's get started
[13:31] <kenvandine> :(
[13:31] <seb128> #topic rls-bb-bugs
[13:32] <seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-incoming-bug-tasks.html
[13:32] <seb128> no desktop entry
[13:32] <seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-tracking-bug-tasks.html
[13:32] <seb128> bug #1715365 is targetted and unassigned
[13:32] <ubot5`> bug 1715365 in gnome-session (Ubuntu Bionic) "gnome-session-check-accelerated crashed with SIGSEGV in g_hash_table_lookup_node() from g_hash_table_lookup() from lookup_cached_xatom() from gdk_x11_atom_to_xatom_for_display()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1715365
[13:33] <seb128> Daniiieeeelll
[13:33] <willcooke> o/
[13:34] <seb128> sorry, was looking at the bug/commit description
[13:34] <seb128> "g-s-check-acceleration: don't crash on X11 with nested wayland " doesn't seem like an rls issue
[13:35] <seb128> at the same time it has a patch and would be nice to SRU
[13:35] <seb128> I would vote -1 for bionic targetting but it's a nice SRU candidate if anyone wants to own it
[13:35] <seb128> what others think?
[13:35] <seb128> or do somewant want to own the SRU and get that fix in bionic?
[13:36] <tseliot> o/
[13:36] <seb128> hey tseliot
[13:36] <seb128> it's clear nap time around :p
[13:36]  * oSoMoN is reading that bug
[13:37] <didrocks> under a big warm cover :)
[13:37] <kenvandine> :)
[13:37] <seb128> ok, so noone has an opinion
[13:37]  * Trevinho shows up
[13:37] <seb128> I'm deleting the bionic line
[13:38] <oSoMoN> yeah, +1 for untargetting and a good SRU candidate
[13:38] <seb128> it can go through the rls-bb-incoming process if someone think it should
[13:38] <didrocks> yep
[13:39] <Trevinho> looks something we can delay yes
[13:39] <seb128> (sorry was commenting on the bug)
[13:40] <willcooke> +1 delay
[13:40]  * willcooke is slow
[13:40] <seb128> next
[13:40] <seb128> bug #1798961
[13:40] <ubot5`> bug 1798961 in linux (Ubuntu Disco) "Random unrecoverable freezes on Ubuntu 18.10" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1798961
[13:40] <willcooke> the word "random" triggers me
[13:41] <seb128> the bug got targetted from the kernel side
[13:41] <seb128> I'm going to Invalid the intel part
[13:41] <seb128> unless they prove it's there and reopen
[13:41] <Laney> sounds good
[13:41] <willcooke> +1
[13:42] <seb128> bug #1827284
[13:42] <ubot5`> bug 1827284 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu Bionic) "No animation when GNOME Activities overview is opened" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1827284
[13:42] <seb128> Daniiieeelll
[13:43] <willcooke> -1
[13:43] <willcooke> for B
[13:43] <willcooke> and E
[13:43] <seb128> sounds like it might be a SRU regression in B
[13:43] <Laney> did nobody speak to him yet or what?
[13:44] <seb128> I did mention it but maybe he didn'"t pay much attention, I'm going to write an email after the meeting
[13:45] <didrocks> I would be +1 for fixing as well
[13:45] <seb128> I'm going to assign to Daniel this one, at least to have details of when it regressed in bionic and what are the options
[13:46] <seb128> (f*** launchpad which timeout and gives me a red box over firefox as an error)
[13:46] <kenvandine> :/
[13:46] <seb128> k, will edit those after the meeting
[13:47] <seb128> that's it for the unassigned & non-fix-commited in bionic
[13:47] <seb128> #topic rls-cc-bugs
[13:47] <seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-cc-incoming-bug-tasks.html
[13:47] <seb128> empty
[13:47] <seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-cc-tracking-bug-tasks.html
[13:47] <seb128> only the intel one we just discussed and is invalid now
[13:48] <seb128> #topic rls-dd-bugs
[13:48] <seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-dd-incoming-bug-tasks.html
[13:48] <seb128> bug #1827953
[13:48] <ubot5`> bug 1827953 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "when you have "world clocks" configured (e.g. from the Gnome Clocks application), Gnome Shell crashes on login, resulting in a login loop" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1827953
[13:48] <kenvandine> that looks nasty
[13:48] <seb128> I tagged that earlier, adding a location in gnome-clocks is enough to lead to a non working desktop
[13:48] <seb128> can't logging anymore
[13:48] <seb128> unless you know to go to a vt and reset that specific gsettings key
[13:49] <willcooke> seems a good candidate to me
[13:49] <seb128> so I vote +1 to fix
[13:49] <willcooke> +1
[13:49] <Laney> that got cherry picked to gnome 3.32 today, so it'll be in the next one
[13:49] <Laney> do you think it should be done off cycle?
[13:49] <seb128> it's fixed upstream
[13:49] <seb128> I asked them to commit to 3.32
[13:49] <seb128> ah, they did, good :)
[13:49] <Laney> it is already
[13:49]  * Laney did the merge request for that, easy way to get it done :>
[13:49] <seb128> thx
[13:49] <seb128> I would vote +1 to do another upload only for that
[13:50] <seb128> it's probably not a lot of people because we don't install gnome-clocks by default
[13:50] <Trevinho> +1
[13:50] <seb128> but still, it pretty much screws your computer if you are non tech
[13:50] <seb128> even if you have tech, it took me a bit to find the right gsettings key to reset
[13:50] <seb128> have->are
[13:50] <Laney> resetting the current SRU or waiting for it?
[13:50] <seb128> trevinho, I assign to you if it's ok?
[13:50] <Laney> ah no not in yet
[13:51] <Trevinho> ok
[13:51] <Laney> ah no no it is
[13:51] <seb128> Laney, trevinho, I let you up to you if you want to request the SRU team to hijack the previous upload and reset the counter
[13:51] <seb128> I think it can wait until next week in the queue
[13:51] <seb128> or if we upload today we can ask them to approve it directly
[13:52] <seb128> that would only delay by 1 day since the previous got accepted yesterday
[13:52] <seb128> anyway, up to you guys
[13:53] <seb128> that was the only dd-incoming
[13:53] <seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-dd-tracking-bug-tasks.html
[13:53] <seb128> bug #1823167
[13:53] <ubot5`> bug 1823167 in tracker-miners (Ubuntu Eoan) "/usr/lib/tracker/tracker-extract 31 -> chdir -> do_exec -> fork_exec_with_fds -> fork_exec_with_pipes -> g_spawn_async_with_pipes" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1823167
[13:54] <seb128> 588 reports on disco
[13:54] <Laney> that was already accepted
[13:54] <Laney> let's not discuss it again
[13:54] <Laney> give it a new assignee
[13:54] <seb128> k
[13:54] <didrocks> yeah, I guess the +1 was already done, just need a new assignee
[13:54] <seb128> it needs another owner to take over andyrock
[13:55] <seb128> just an upstream commit to chery pick
[13:55] <seb128> didrocks, want to do it?
[13:55] <seb128> (just picking people in turn, you are off the hook for the next ones then ;)
[13:55]  * didrocks reminds he wasn't in favor in adding tracking :p
[13:55] <seb128> ahah
[13:55] <didrocks> so whoever wanted to do it :)
[13:55] <didrocks> but I can have a look
[13:55] <seb128> thx
[13:55] <didrocks> and see how it goes
[13:56] <seb128> I can write the SRU description
[13:56] <seb128> you just need to cherry pick and dput
[13:56] <seb128> k
[13:56] <seb128> the other ones on that list are handled
[13:56] <seb128> #topic rls-ee-bugs
[13:56] <seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ee-incoming-bug-tasks.html
[13:56] <seb128> bug 1809407
[13:56] <ubot5`> bug 1809407 in mutter (Ubuntu) "[nvidia] Corrupted wallpaper after resuming from suspend" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1809407
[13:57] <seb128> seeing the duplicates list I vote +1
[13:57] <seb128> (probably worth SRUing as well once we have a fix)
[13:57] <willcooke> that patch is via system76, they've distro patched
[13:58] <seb128> that non patch
[13:58] <willcooke> +1 from me
[13:58] <seb128> upstream is still open without a proper mp
[13:58] <seb128> and they labelled their patch as "work around"
[13:58] <seb128> anyway
[13:58] <willcooke> interesting
[13:58] <seb128> Daniel pinged Jonas about it, he seems ot have an idea what the problem is
[13:58] <seb128> so I'm assigning to him
[13:59] <willcooke> +1 thx
[13:59] <Trevinho> yeah code isn't exactly the best
[13:59] <Trevinho> so +1 in more upstream approved stuff
[14:00] <seb128> bug #1821415
[14:00] <ubot5`> bug 1821415 in policykit-1 (Ubuntu) "pkexec fails in a non-graphical environment" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1821415
[14:01] <seb128> bdmurray tagged it
[14:01] <seb128> but that doesn't seem like a release problem to me
[14:01] <seb128> the bug description is about the plymouth apport hook under a non graphical session
[14:01] <seb128> I think it's pretty a non-standard-user problem
[14:02] <seb128> others?
[14:03] <seb128> k, doing a notfixing then
[14:03] <didrocks> yeah, agreed
[14:03] <oSoMoN> it'd be interesting to check how many packages ship apport hooks that use that function
[14:03] <willcooke> agreed
[14:03] <seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ee-tracking-bug-tasks.html
[14:03] <Laney> quite niche indeed
[14:03] <seb128> bug #1815889 on that list
[14:03] <Laney> could hint brian to go chase upstream if he wants
[14:03] <ubot5`> bug 1815889 in qemu (Ubuntu Eoan) "qemu-system-x86_64 crashed with signal 31 in __pthread_setaffinity_new()" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1815889
[14:04] <seb128> yeah
[14:04] <seb128> ^ that is fixed, just didn't get close for eoan
[14:05] <seb128> bug #1819615
[14:05] <ubot5`> bug 1819615 in OEM Priority Project "For additional hardware support, modemmanager needs to be upgraded to 1.10 on Bionic" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1819615
[14:05] <seb128> tkamppeter, kenvandine, ^ for you?
[14:05] <kenvandine> yes
[14:05] <kenvandine> i am uploading that today
[14:05] <seb128> thx
[14:05] <seb128> the tracker one we talked about
[14:06] <seb128> that's it for bugs
[14:06] <seb128> #topic update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages
[14:06] <seb128> https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages
[14:06] <seb128> seems in shape, just entries from today
[14:06] <Laney> all good
[14:06] <seb128> thx Laney :)
[14:06] <willcooke> woo
[14:06] <seb128> #topic AOB
[14:06] <seb128> other topics?
[14:07] <didrocks> none for me
[14:07] <willcooke> I have an OEM request
[14:07] <willcooke> fwupd 1.2.5 is required in B ASAP.  seb128 I think you were looking at that one, so we can take it off line
[14:07] <seb128> yes, I'm trying to help
[14:07] <seb128> thanks for the reminder :)à
[14:07] <willcooke> :)
[14:08] <willcooke> thank *you*
[14:08] <seb128> let's talk outside the meeting, no need to have the team for it
[14:08] <seb128> np!
[14:08] <willcooke> +1
[14:08] <willcooke> thats all
[14:08] <seb128> k
[14:08] <seb128> 3
[14:08] <Laney> WAIT
[14:08] <seb128> yes?
[14:08] <Trevinho> ohoh!
[14:08] <Laney> we stopped checking on assigned rls bugs
[14:08] <Laney> was that on purpose?
[14:09] <seb128> willcooke, ^
[14:09] <seb128> you sent a bunch of emails
[14:09] <seb128> (which I don't think got much traction, but that's another topic)
[14:09] <willcooke> I will start that again
[14:09] <seb128> I think the answer is *no* and that we neds to go back to do something about it
[14:10] <willcooke> I will script it this time
[14:10] <seb128> willcooke, let's try to work on some of those nagging bots next week if we find free slots
[14:10] <seb128> Laney, thx for the reminder!
[14:10] <Laney> thx
[14:10] <willcooke> seb128, cool
[14:10] <seb128> k
[14:10] <seb128> counter reset, last chance for others :p
[14:10] <seb128> 3
[14:10] <seb128> .
[14:10] <seb128> 2
[14:10] <seb128> .
[14:10] <seb128> 1
[14:10] <seb128> .
[14:10] <seb128> #endmeeting
[14:10] <meetingology> Meeting ended Tue May  7 14:10:58 2019 UTC.
[14:10] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2019/ubuntu-desktop.2019-05-07-13.30.moin.txt
[14:11] <seb128> thanks everyone!
[14:11] <oSoMoN> thanks
[14:11] <cpaelzer> seb128: wow you even count half seconds
[14:11] <seb128> :)
[14:11] <Trevinho> thanks...
[14:11] <cpaelzer> on the qemu bug that was linked above, the plan is to merge a qemu which is fixed in eoan and then you can drop the delta we carry
[14:11] <willcooke> thanks
[14:11] <seb128> trevinho, good morning :) how are you?
[14:11] <seb128> cpaelzer, ah ok, good to know
[14:12] <seb128> cpaelzer, thx
[14:12] <cpaelzer> expect somewhen in july for an ETA
[14:12] <cpaelzer> that is the reason the qemu task is still open
[14:12] <cpaelzer> and you will get an update to the bug once that flips
[14:12] <seb128> ah ok, I'm going to reopen and assign to Timo then
[14:13] <rayfun> hi, does anyone have an idea where this annoying livepatch applet is coming from and how to turn it off? https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2418468&p=13857862
[14:34] <oSoMoN> willcooke, didrocks: I'd welcome your opinion on bug #1827948
[14:34] <ubot5`> bug 1827948 in libreoffice (Ubuntu) "Use libreoffice-style-breeze as the default icon theme" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1827948
[14:35] <oSoMoN> (do we have a reference visual designer for the desktop who could chime in, too?)
[14:36] <didrocks> oSoMoN: I think it should go through mpt who is our point of contact
[14:36] <didrocks> oSoMoN: FYI, frederik is one of the Yaru main contributor :)
[14:37] <oSoMoN> I know, but I'm keen on hearing from others
[14:37] <didrocks> trying to invoke clobrano maybe ;)
[14:43] <marcustomlinson> willcooke: I'll add those screenshots
[14:43] <willcooke> oSoMoN, commented on the bug.  A before and after would be useful, and then mpt is the best person to comment.  Looks good to me, but would like to see a before and after (without having to do any work myself :) )
[14:43] <willcooke> thanks marcustomlinson
[14:49] <clobrano> a wild clobrano appears
[14:51] <clobrano> oSoMoN, didrock: cool I have no idea of  bug #1827948 :D
[14:51] <ubot5`> bug 1827948 in libreoffice (Ubuntu) "Use libreoffice-style-breeze as the default icon theme" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1827948
[14:51] <oSoMoN> willcooke, marcustomlinson: thanks
[14:51] <didrocks> :)
[14:58] <clobrano> oSoMoN: I don't really know, breeze looks a bit cold respect colorful elementary
[14:59] <clobrano> but I have no strong opinion about it
[15:01] <clobrano> maybe it's just a matter of getting used to
[15:01] <marcustomlinson> screenshots added
[15:14] <oSoMoN> clobrano, interesting, that was my first knee-jerk reaction too, I found it too symbolic, but of course like any change this would take some getting used to
[15:14] <clobrano> oSoMoN: I added the same comment on launchpad
[15:15] <oSoMoN> marcustomlinson, nice set of screenshots, thanks!
[15:16] <oSoMoN> now that I see them side by side, elementary icons almost look too colourful :)
[15:16] <willcooke> marcustomlinson, +1 to oSoMoN, thanks!
[15:16] <willcooke> I will ask m_pt to comment, but he's on hols atm. Might take a week or two
[15:50] <seb128> oSoMoN, clobrano, it's tricky, the elementary is more colored but also feels like a bit more "cahotic"
[15:50] <seb128> like less aligned/lean
[15:51] <seb128> but a bit of color is also nice...
[15:53] <Wimpress> jbicha: I see you are one of the uploaders for libwnck3 to Debian.
[15:54] <Wimpress> Any chance you could upload libwnck 3.32.0? Is have a new feature for MATE.
[16:00] <seb128> Wimpress, jbicha is not around much anymore, he had to focus on other things than free software
[16:01] <seb128> you might want to find someone else
[16:01] <Wimpress> seb128: OK, thanks.
[16:32] <Laney> Trevinho: ce3f91130672d24b114bfe96a54db6d3893be183 seems like pointless delta since the symbol is in all subsequent releases
[16:33] <Laney> for b154de179b5d063103bf958fb30e4544e2527d55 I can understand it if we don't fix that in cosmic too
[16:33] <Trevinho> Laney: yeah, but I didn't want SRU team to be alarted by a new symbol
[16:34] <Laney> that happens?
[16:34] <Trevinho> alerted*
[16:35] <Trevinho> not sure, but... Well, we can indee do it for only b154de179b5d063103bf958fb30e4544e2527d55
[16:35] <Trevinho> I was thinking that since if, will ever happen a 3.28.4, the 1st one will be there anyway
[16:35] <Laney> cool
[16:36] <Trevinho> but not to trigger any alert, I decided to hide that too
[16:36] <Trevinho> but up to you
[16:43] <Laney> will try with it in, thanks!
[16:47] <Laney> Trevinho: where are you in the world atm/
[16:47] <Laney> ?
[16:47] <Trevinho> Laney: still Oaxaca (till tomorrow)
[16:48] <willcooke> heh, I thought that was in hex
[16:49] <Trevinho> willcooke: ahaha, yeah... I still can't say it properly (it's something like "Wakaka")
[16:50] <Laney> there's a chain of mexican restaurants here called that
[16:50] <Laney> wahaca...
[16:51] <Laney> but it is really named after Oaxaca
[16:51] <Laney> funny
[16:53] <marcustomlinson> speaking of weird names :P
[16:53] <Trevinho> Laney: I can imagine how mexican they are :)
[16:53] <marcustomlinson> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/
[16:54] <Trevinho> Laney: anyway I've pushed also the fix for bug #1827953 for both master and disco.. together with the ellipsize thing
[16:54] <ubot5`> bug 1827953 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "when you have "world clocks" configured (e.g. from the Gnome Clocks application), Gnome Shell crashes on login, resulting in a login loop" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1827953
[16:54] <Trevinho> I guess you saw already the MRs so no need to link, right? :)
[16:54] <Trevinho> marcustomlinson: Ermine :o
[16:55] <Trevinho> mh, Italian supreme court judges "favourites" :o
[16:55] <Trevinho> https://st.ilfattoquotidiano.it/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/ciccolo-mattarella-canzio-675.jpg
[16:55] <Laney> Trevinho: Florian said a 3.32.2 will happen soon(™) once he fixes one more bug, so was thking to wait for that maybe?
[16:56] <Laney> still other stuff coming in the branch that would be cool to have
[16:56]  * Trevinho has a different concept of soon :)
[16:56]  * Trevinho and he's not exactly the on-time person :P
[16:56] <Laney> well I did ask with "this week"
[16:56] <Laney> and he said "yes" :P
[16:57] <Trevinho> cools
[16:57] <Laney> shell and release schedules ...
[16:57] <Laney> anyway maybe give them a couple of days
[16:58] <Laney> if you're ok with that
[17:04] <Laney> omg
[17:04] <Laney> I accidentally clicked with my palm and typed my GPG passphrase into IRC
[17:04] <Laney> caught it in time
[17:06] <sarnold> "omg" is kind fo short
[17:07] <Laney> wouldn't it be cool if "I accidentally clicked with my palm and typed my GPG passphrase into IRC" was acutally my passphrase
[17:07] <Laney> hiding in plain sight
[17:07] <gQuigs> oSoMoN: any chance we have a rought eta for Firefox 66.0.4 to regular updates?
[17:11] <sarnold> "hey everyone how's it going"
[17:18]  * willcooke -> haircut.  Night all
[17:21] <Laney> Trevinho: does one of the bugs explain the dropped patch from duflu do you know?
[17:22] <Laney> I guess https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mutter/+bug/1763892
[17:22] <ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1763892 in mutter (Ubuntu Bionic) "144Hz/120Hz monitor but mutter seems to cap rendering at 60FPS" [Medium,In progress]
[17:25] <Laney> BAH
[17:25] <Laney> missing https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/3.28.3+git20190124-0ubuntu18.04.2 it seems
[17:27] <clobrano> oSoMoN: I think you're right, let's try it for some days and  see :)
[17:31] <Laney> ok rebased
[17:41] <Laney> Trevinho: sponsored!
[17:42]  * Laney has missed the window to go climbing due to rebase-rebuild-test cycle :(
[17:42]  * Laney goes off to do something else instead
[17:42] <Laney> o/
[18:06] <seb128> Laney, :-(
[18:06] <seb128> Laney, enjoy your evening!
[18:16] <Trevinho> Laney: sorry, I was relocating to a coffee shop. So well it was incompatible with the other no? I mentioned in the changelog iirc
[18:16] <Trevinho> sorry for your climbing :P
[18:22] <Laney> Trevinho: it just needed to include that patch
[18:22] <Laney> nm, I don't blame you, I didn't notice either until I downloaded from LP to debdiff
[20:57] <dupondje> Wanted to try IWD, now it seems like network-manager depends on wpa-supplicant :( meh! :)


[02:28] <Logan_> the Debian BTS makes me sad
[02:59] <Noskcaj> Logan_, Where's the problem in a website from the 90's that can only be controlled by email? ;)
[03:36] <ScottK> It does it's job well enough and has features that LP for all it's web shininess doesn't.
[04:58] <Logan_> ScottK: it often fails for me
[04:58] <ScottK> Do you use bts?
[04:59] <Logan_> no, but I probably should
[05:00] <Logan_> but<EMAIL_ADDRESS>is so unpredictable sometimes
[05:00] <Logan_> like, I tried to merge a bug in src:package with a bug in package
[05:01] <Logan_> so first I did: affects bug2 src:package
[05:01] <Logan_> and then I merged
[05:01] <Logan_> but it said that bug2 affects package, not src:package
[05:01] <Logan_> so then I did: affects bug1 package
[05:01] <Logan_> and tried to merge
[05:01] <Logan_> but it said that bug2 affects src:package, not package
[05:01] <Logan_> and then I cried
[05:18] <infinity> Logan_: You probably wanted reassign, not affects.
[05:19] <Logan_> fffff
[05:19] <Logan_> I've even used that in the past
[05:19] <Logan_> ugh
[05:19] <Logan_> if there were a GUI, I wouldn't have confused the two :(
[05:20] <infinity> One could write a GUI that effectively just pinged commands off the control bot.
[05:20] <infinity> But the bts CLI tool is pretty friendly, from what I hear.
[05:20] <infinity> (I've been using<EMAIL_ADDRESS>for so long that I don't really care)
[05:21] <infinity> @b.d.o, even.
[05:21] <udevbot> Error: "b.d.o," is not a valid command.
[05:21] <infinity> udevbot: SUPER HELPFUL, THANKS.
[05:21] <udevbot> Error: "SUPER" is not a valid command.
[05:21] <Logan_> :3
[05:23] <ScottK> Logan_: Try bts.  It makes it a lot easier.  Plus man bts is a lot handier documentation then a web page.
[05:23] <Logan_> will do :P
[05:25]  * infinity goes to bed at a sensible hour for the second night in a row, and wonders if this will last...
[05:25] <infinity> Fingers crossed.
[05:25] <sarnold> for "yes" or for "no"? :)
[05:26] <infinity> sarnold: I'm hoping for yes, but history isn't on my side here.
[05:26] <sarnold> infinity: aha :) good luck
[05:27]  * ScottK notes he's in a later timezone than infinity and figures he's missed sensible.
[05:27] <ScottK> Best go to be at an unreasonable hour then.
[06:21] <pitti> Good morning
[07:02] <pitti> slangasek: bug 1377698> ack, will fix ASAP
[07:04] <zyga> pitti: hey :)
[07:07] <pitti> hey zyga, how are you?
[07:17] <jdstrand> cjwatson: hey, I'm trying to figure out some corruption that sometimes happens in /var/cache/apparmor and /var/lib/apparmor/profiles and I started thinking about click-system-hooks and apparmor upstart job interactions
[07:19] <jdstrand> cjwatson: click-system-hooks.conf has 'start on filesystem' and apparmor.override has 'start on starting lightdm'
[07:19] <jdstrand> cjwatson: they are both tasks
[07:22] <jdstrand> cjwatson: aiui, both could end up calling aa-clickhook depending on the circumstances (the apparmor upstart job may run aa-clickhook -f)
[07:24] <cjwatson> You should probably have a lock or something.
[07:32] <jdstrand> cjwatson: so, that is one idea. I also wondered if the upstart jobs should change in some way
[07:35] <cjwatson> jdstrand: How would you suggest?  I don't think click-system-hooks can safely move later, and I don't think apparmor.override should be waiting for click-system-hooks.  I'm also reluctant to try to complicate the Upstart jobs for this because that seems fragile.
[07:36] <cjwatson> jdstrand: And also adding anything more that further complicates the impending transition to systemd seems like a bad idea ...
[07:36] <jdstrand> cjwatson: I wasn't sure what to suggest, which is why I wanted to ask
[07:37] <jdstrand> I'll think about the lockfile
[07:50] <jdstrand> cjwatson: how grumpy will click-system-hooks be if apparmor exited non-zero? where would it be logged, in /var/log/upstart/click-system-hooks.log?
[07:51] <jdstrand> cjwatson: s/apparmor/the apparmor system hook/
[08:14] <cjwatson> jdstrand: It will exit 1 and log to /var/log/upstart/click-system-hooks.log.  Life will otherwise go on.
[08:14] <cjwatson> jdstrand: (In particular, a single hook failing doesn't stop it running other hooks.)
[08:15]  * jdstrand is trying to decide if it should exit(1) if the lock exists or block
[08:15] <cjwatson> jdstrand: I think you need to block, because the currently-in-progress run may not be operating on up-to-date input information.
[08:16] <cjwatson> And if you exit(1) then nothing else might generate the required profiles until the next boot.
[08:16] <jdstrand> right
[08:16] <cjwatson> Better to have startup be a bit slower than to be wrong, I think
[08:16] <jdstrand> I was leaning towards that
[08:16] <jdstrand> ok, thanks for the input
[08:16] <cjwatson> np
[09:02] <zyga> pitti: hey, quick question
[09:02] <zyga> pitti: what is the best way that a process can reliably confine and kill all the children it has forked?
[09:03] <zyga> pitti: is the only reliable way to use a control group?
[09:03] <zyga> pitti: or can this be done in a less complicated way?
[09:04] <zyga> pitti: the only other thing I've considered is a session (setsid) but I think that's pretty easy to escape
[09:04] <pitti> zyga: haha
[09:05] <pitti> zyga: that's the very question that has kept me up yesterday and last night -- https://plus.google.com/u/0/107564545827215425270/posts/bAm9jiYE3JB
[09:05] <pitti> zyga: you can trivially escape both sessions and process groups (most daemons do that)
[09:05] <zyga> pitti: I know, I read that :)
[09:05] <pitti> zyga: ah :)
[09:05] <pitti> zyga: so, without cgroups you can't (reliably)
[09:05] <zyga> pitti: right, and I think our focus is the same
[09:05] <pitti> zyga: for ssh I kill all processes that have an fd open to ssh's terminal
[09:05] <zyga> pitti: my goal is to also kill test payload leftovers
[09:05] <pitti> as that's my main concern (stop ssh from hanging)
[09:06] <zyga> pitti: hmm, there's more and more overlap between plainbox and adt :)
[09:06] <zyga> pitti: is there a way to ask for a control group without being root?
[09:06] <pitti> no
[09:06] <zyga> pitti: nothing we can ask systemd for?
[09:06] <zyga> pitti: via dbus/
[09:07] <pitti> zyga: my hilariously hideous patch for unblocking ssh is http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/autopkgtest/autopkgtest.git/commit/?id=3f685f54 (you may vomit now)
[09:07] <pitti> it's ugly as hell, but so far the best I could come up with with normal user privs
[09:08] <zyga> pitti: interesting
[09:09] <zyga> pitti: yes, it's not terribly elegant
[09:09] <zyga> pitti: hmm
[09:09] <zyga> pitti: sigh, the main target is to reliably test touch but there we don't have systemd at all :/
[09:10] <zyga> pitti: thanks, this is educative, we may be left with something similar
[09:11] <zyga> pitti: btw, maybe we could consider merging adt and plainbox later on, we seem to try to do the same thing (setup, execute and teardown a test session) (just a thought)
[09:11] <zyga> pitti: I won't be able to go to the sprint but I'd like to talk about that one day
[09:11] <pitti> zyga: yeah, with the autopilot tests that I ran through autopkgtest on the phone I haven't seen any hangs -- apparently our tests are well behaved and don't leak processes :)
[09:12] <pitti> but in principle this sohuld affect the phone as well; it's an ssh specific problem, not specific to nova or adb
[09:12]  * zyga was chasing after a few 'leaking' dbus-launch sessions
[09:12] <zyga> pitti: well, it's not like adb will care but we'd like to make sure that running a session of N tests, we don't stockpile processes around
[09:14] <pitti> zyga: I meant autopkgtest's setup script for adb (i. e. running autopilot tests on the phone) vs. nova (running autopkgtests in the cloud)
[09:14] <pitti> nevermind, was mostly loud thinking
[09:15] <zyga> pitti: thanks, I'll keep an eye out to autopkgtests
[09:15] <zyga> pitti: and steal some good ideas you have there :)
[09:22] <Saviq> pitti, hey, is there a way to apport-retrace click crashes yet?
[09:23] <pitti> Saviq: no, there isn't
[09:24] <pitti> Saviq: well, you can manually run apport-retrace on the device of course, but not automatically through LP bugs or errors.u.c.
[09:24] <pitti> Saviq: (and manually install all necessary debug pacakges)
[09:24] <Saviq> pitti, well, yeah, that manual apport-retrace is what tsdgeos was trying to do
[09:24] <Saviq> and got http://paste.ubuntu.com/8513258/
[09:24] <pitti> Saviq: we have zero support for click packages, implicit dependencies, and system-images so far
[09:24] <Saviq> Package will never be filled will it?
[09:25] <pitti> it also doesn't have a core dump
[09:25] <pitti> presumably that's a .crash which has never been sent through apport-cli, but for clicks that doesn't help either
[09:25] <tsdgeos> pitti: it does have a core dump
[09:25] <tsdgeos> or so apport-cli says
[09:25] <pitti> as there is no Package:/Dependencies: for clicks
[09:25] <pitti> ah
[09:25] <pitti> anyway, apport-retrace (or apport reports) won't help you much for now
[09:26] <tsdgeos> pitti: note the error is "doesn't have some of this things" not "doesn't have any of this things"
[09:26] <tsdgeos> the only thing missing is actually Package
[09:26] <pitti> and Dependencies:
[09:26] <pitti> and apport being able to download and unpack clicks or system images
[09:27] <pitti> and us not having ddebs for older system images, nor an index for it, etc.
[09:27] <pitti> the latter is being worked on, but it's a huge project
[09:27] <pitti> and we haven't really talked at all about apport in a click/system-image world yet
[09:30] <tsdgeos> ok
[09:44] <brainwash> pitti: just curious, can I install systemd from unstable? do I have to add the ubuntu delta?
[09:44] <brainwash> I assume that there will be some problems with 215 or 216 in utopic
[09:52] <pitti> brainwash: without the Ubuntu delta you'll most probably create some havoc in /usr/share/doc, introduce unsupported udev config files, and break initramfs
[09:53] <brainwash> sounds great :>
[09:53] <pitti> brainwash: rather use darkxst's systemd 215 package PPA (not sure where he keeps that)
[09:54] <brainwash> tim?
[09:54] <brainwash> the gnome guy?
[09:54] <brainwash> let me check
[09:54] <pitti> brainwash: if you want to boot systemd, that's the only thing you need; for booting with upstart you need to rebuild systemd-shim
[09:54] <pitti> yes
[09:54] <brainwash> it's a minimal systemd only system
[09:55] <pitti> brainwash: if it's a throwaway system without complicated "need to wait for this root partition" setup, you can try the debian package
[09:55] <pitti> brainwash: but don't try this on your desktop workstation, it's rather involved to sidegrade back to the ubuntu version as you need to clean up some conffiles
[09:56] <darkxst> it's 214 and was unit293's merge who messed up the merge a little, but it works
[09:56] <brainwash> I'm aware of that
[09:57] <brainwash> ok, thanks for the info
[09:57] <brainwash> a ppa with systemd from unstable + ubuntu delta would be quite handy
[09:57] <darkxst> brainwash, ppa:darkxst/sd214
[09:58] <brainwash> yep, found that one :)
[09:58] <darkxst> its missing some of the ubuntu delta though
[09:59] <brainwash> but it should work, right? someone has actually tested it I'd guess
[10:02] <darkxst> a few of us have been running it for quite some time without issues, but its never had (nor ever will) get mass testing
[10:03] <pitti> brainwash: so, as long as you only install that in a place which doesn't need to survive a dist-upgrade and isn't production, that's fine
[10:03] <pitti> I expect to do a merge with Debian at the end of October, after utopic's release
[10:03] <pitti> so first thing in V
[10:03] <pitti> i. e. git rebase -i'ing the Ubuntu branch and fixing the conflicts
[10:03]  * pitti pats proper VCS packaging :)
[10:06]  * darkxst still waiting on sjoerd to move pkg-gnome to git ;) that should make things a lot easier ;)
[11:47] <doko> cjwatson, bdmurray: please subscribe foundations to the babeltrace bug reports
[11:48] <cjwatson> doko,bdmurray: done
[12:04] <apachelogger> pitti: http://paste.ubuntu.com/8514115/ any objections to this? changes PPA to PPAS, appending multiple --ppa arguments to that and then looping in add_ppas to add multiple ppas to the ubuntu-defaults.list
[12:13] <arges> Trevinho: ChrisTownsend: hey i'm reviewing the upload for libindicator/trusty and there isn't any bugnumber associated with that. Can you fix that and re-upload?
[12:14] <ChrisTownsend> arges: Hmm, ok.  I wasn't involved in this SRU, but I'll follow up w/ Trevinho and bregma.  Thanks for pointing that out.
[12:15] <arges> ChrisTownsend: cool np
[12:15] <bregma> arges, yeah, the ci-train didn't pick up the bug number for some reason, I'll see about fixing it
[12:16] <arges> bregma: great : )
[12:16] <pitti> apachelogger: sure, no problem
[12:32] <brainwash> darkxst: I've encountered a dependency problem, "systemd-sysv : Depends: systemd (= 208-8ubuntu7) but 214-0ubuntu1~utopic9 is to be installed"
[12:43] <LocutusOfBorg1> hi ubuntu developer, I'm wondering if I can request a sync for a package I maintain directly here rather than filing a bug...
[12:43] <LocutusOfBorg1> I just updated the copyright file and did a little change in cmake, making it cmake 3.0 compatible
[12:44] <LocutusOfBorg1> (I also have some other syncs to request, but I still need to work on them)
[12:44] <pitti> brainwash: well, you have to install all of your built binaries :)
[12:46] <brainwash> pitti: systemd-sysv is missing in the list of built packages :/
[12:47] <doko> cjwatson, lintian complains about license-problem-gfdl-invariants errors in Ubuntu. can we just remove this check for Ubuntu?
[12:47] <brainwash> pitti: it's darkxst's systemd ppa
[12:49] <pitti> brainwash: ah, maybe he based this off the trusty version then which indeed didn't yet build -sysv
[12:51] <brainwash> pitti: ah, from the changelog: "Don't build the systemd-sysv package for now."
[12:55] <cjwatson> doko: It's case-by-case, not a blanket permission, AIUI
[13:51] <mdeslaur> doko: you regressed my bash security update in utopic
[13:52] <mdeslaur> doko: oh, wait, no you didn't, sorry
[13:52] <doko> mdeslaur, how?
[13:52] <mdeslaur> doko: are you planning on going up to patch -30?
[13:53] <doko> yes
[13:53] <mdeslaur> doko: great, thanks
[13:54] <mdeslaur> I'm going to switch the stable releases to the final upstream patches also
[14:31] <tvoss> pitti, hallo :)
[14:33] <doko> mdeslaur, uploaded
[14:33] <mdeslaur> doko: cool, thanks!
[14:39] <Saviq> charles, are calendar reminders supposed to work properly yet? I saw your branch for valarm triggers, but reminders here seem to not take timzone into account, that known? I couldn't find a relevant bug
[14:42] <slangasek> pitti: cheers
[14:42] <pitti> slangasek: good morning; fix is in -proposed
[14:43] <charles> Saviq, wrt timezones, that sounds like what I reported in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-calendar-app/+bug/1291225/comments/4
[14:44] <Saviq> charles, hmm wonder if it's only for repeating events then
[14:46] <charles> Saviq, would Mihir be the person to assign 1291225 to?
[14:47] <charles> that is, dyk how calendar-app is creating those events?
[14:47] <Saviq> charles, could be, yeah
[14:57] <slangasek> pitti: hmm, is it?  I don't see util-linux in proposed
[15:32] <pitti> slangasek: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/util-linux/2.25.1-3ubuntu2
[15:35] <flexiondotorg> If I wanted a package syncing from Debian does it have to be in testing or can it be pulled from unstable?
[15:35] <pitti> flexiondotorg: it can be pulled from anywhere (usually unstable)
[15:35] <flexiondotorg> OK, I have a few MATE packages that I would really like sycning.
[15:36] <flexiondotorg> What is the process?
[15:36] <cjwatson> flexiondotorg: requestsync(1)
[15:37] <flexiondotorg> cjwatson, Thanks. Installing...
[15:37] <tzero> are PPA keys supposed to match personal keys? I thought I was following the packaging guide, but apt gripes about unauthenticated packages after `apt-add-repository`ing.
[15:38] <flexiondotorg> cjwatson, pitti Just out of interest is it possible to requestsync for 14.04?
[15:41] <pitti> flexiondotorg: no, we don't do that (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates)
[15:42] <flexiondotorg> pitti, Interesting. So if Ubuntu MATE earns it official status during the 15.04 cycle there is not prospect of ever releasing an official 14.04.2 version of Ubuntu MATE?
[15:43] <cjwatson> tzero: Launchpad generates a PPA key for each user the first time they create a PPA.  It would be inappropriate to have your personal key used by Launchpad to sign archives - you'd be relinquishing control of it
[15:43] <pitti> flexiondotorg: oh, we can SRU into stables, but we don't use syncs for that
[15:43] <flexiondotorg> SRU?
[15:43] <pitti> flexiondotorg: technically it would be possible, but not policy-wise; mostly, the version numbers would collide with the development release, and we also don't do wholesale updates, we backport fixes
[15:43] <pitti> flexiondotorg: stable release update, see the wiki page above
[15:44] <flexiondotorg> pitti, Thanks.
[15:44] <flexiondotorg> So, if I have people crying out for a 14.04 version I should probably provide that based on my "build system"?
[15:54] <slangasek> pitti: ah, there it is - thanks
[15:54] <slangasek> pitti: so on systemd, is the init script also masked?
[15:54] <flexiondotorg> pitti, Can you confirm this is correct before I raise any others? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mate-panel/+bug/1378421
[15:55] <slangasek> pitti: (and does systemd avoid the /etc/adjtime nonsense?)
[16:01] <tzero> cjwatson: hmm, the build log on lp says that it couldn't verify signature. Since I had just created and uploaded that key when the package was submitted, maybe the key hadn't propagated yet. Is it correct that I sign the package source, launchpad verifies it, builds binary packages with the PPA key, and then endusers verify their apt-retrieved files against that PPA key?
[16:05] <doko> barry, http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches-proposed.svg   the system-image seed is still incomplete, could you work on the remaining MIRs?
[16:06] <doko> seb128, http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches-proposed.svg  indicator-datetime should drop the indicator-applet recommendation, or file the appropriate MIRs
[16:08] <seb128> doko, ?
[16:08] <doko> seb128, it's an ubuntu-desktop package, so who should I contact instead?
[16:08] <seb128> doko, it's just that component-mismatch seems buggy
[16:09] <seb128> indicator depends didn't change for cycles
[16:09] <doko> looking ...
[16:09] <seb128> they depends on indicator-applet | indicator-renderer
[16:09] <seb128> which is provided by unity
[16:09] <seb128> which is in main
[16:09] <doko> Recommends: indicator-applet | indicator-renderer
[16:10] <seb128> yeah
[16:10] <seb128> what I just wrote
[16:10] <seb128> unity Provides indicator-renderer
[16:10] <seb128> which is a | in there
[16:10] <doko> yes, but then unity needs to be in the first place
[16:10] <seb128> why?
[16:11] <doko> err, because the first alternative counts for things like britney, and mismatches, and other stuff
[16:11] <seb128> you are sure?
[16:11] <doko> yes
[16:11] <seb128> I think britney e.g try the second one if the first one is not available
[16:11] <doko> cjwatson, ^^^
[16:11] <seb128> as long as one is ok the condition is ok
[16:12] <doko> afaiu one real package needs to match
[16:12] <seb128> those indicator-applet | indicator-renderer depends are like that on indicators for cycles iirc
[16:12] <seb128> that has never been an issue
[16:12] <doko> no, it was a component mismatch for at least the past two release cycles
[16:12] <seb128> usually when componant mismatch has such output it's because unity become un-installable on some arch
[16:14] <doko> jamespage, http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches-proposed.svg  kazoo needs a MIR
[16:14] <jamespage> doko, it does and its pending security team review:
[16:14] <jamespage> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kazoo/+bug/1296607
[16:14] <doko> jamespage, oops, sorry
[16:15] <jamespage> doko, np - I think for once server team are actually up-to-date with MIR's
[16:16] <doko> jamespage, no, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/websockify/+bug/1108935  ;-P
[16:17] <jamespage> doko, oh - - that was yesterday - will look
[16:17] <jamespage> soooo clooosee
[16:18] <cjwatson> tzero: specifically what build log are you talking about?
[16:18] <cjwatson> doko: I was working on the indicator-applet mess, please leave it alone :)
[16:18] <doko> seb128, ^^^
[16:18] <cjwatson> though I've forgotten what state it's in
[16:19] <cjwatson> it was https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/germinate/+bug/1367719 but I investigated and determined that it's not a germinate bug after all.  I'll have to reinvestigate though as I didn't keep notes, sorry.  Can't right now as dreadful internet
[16:20] <cjwatson> Oh, I remember, it was actually coming in from Recommends of something in supported-hardware-desktop
[16:21] <cjwatson> I was considering http://paste.ubuntu.com/8515539/ but infinity wasn't happy with the fragility of that
[16:21] <cjwatson> doko,seb128: so really, nothing to do with unity
[16:22] <seb128> cjwatson, ok, thanks, so we can keep the "Recommends: indicator-applet | indicator-renderer", we don't need the first option to be in main?
[16:23] <doko> cjwatson, I don't understand the diff. isn't that for another component mismatch?
[16:23] <doko> or is this the first chunk?
[16:23] <cjwatson> seb128: yes, just leave it
[16:23] <seb128> cjwatson, thanks
[16:23] <cjwatson> doko: It's a bit of a "you are not expected to understand this" patch :)
[16:24] <cjwatson> doko: Some Recommends chain from supported-hardware-desktop (I forget which) is operating in a context where unity and the Ubuntu desktop's default indicator stack aren't seeded, and so it ends up expanding legitimately to the other possible stack
[16:25] <cjwatson> doko: So the first bit of the patch disables recommends for that seed, and the second fills out some things that go missing as a result
[16:25] <cjwatson> doko: But this is really a bit too fragile, and I need to figure out a better answer
[16:25] <doko> ahh
[16:25] <pitti> slangasek: yes, there's /lib/systemd/system/hwclock.service and service strips off .sh suffixes
[16:26] <pitti> (that's a no-op just to mask the init.d script)
[16:27] <pitti> slangasek: there are references to adjtime in the source, I think timedatectl --adjust-system-clock writes it; but I haven't checked in detail
[16:27] <pitti> sorry, need to leave for today
[16:27] <pitti> flexiondotorg: LGTM
[16:27] <tzero> cjwatson: under Package build summary, there's the "Completed builds" section. For each arch, there's a "see the log" link in the results. The URI is https://launchpad.net/~username/+archive/ubuntu/ppa/+builds?build_state=built
[16:37] <cjwatson> tzero: No, I'm not asking for how to find them in general, I'm asking for the URL to a single example build that you're observing failing
[16:37] <cjwatson> tzero: I know how to navigate Launchpad in general
[16:38] <cjwatson> tzero: You said "the build log on lp says that it couldn't verify signature", and I want to resolve that to a specific message in context
[16:38] <tzero> cjwatson: oh, woops. can I /notice it to you?
[16:38] <cjwatson> tzero: Can't you just paste the URL here?
[16:38] <cjwatson> Presumably it's a public build
[16:39] <tzero> sure, http://goo.gl/L2Czjf
[16:40] <cjwatson> tzero: Oh, so are you referring to "gpgv: Can't check signature: public key not found"?
[16:40] <cjwatson> and the line below
[16:41] <tzero> right
[16:42] <cjwatson> tzero: OK, so that matters not at all.  The signature on the .changes has already been verified by Launchpad well before it gets to that point, and the build doesn't need to separately verify it; that's just code we haven't made any special arrangements to turn off since it doesn't really matter
[16:49] <cjwatson> tzero: You sign the upload; Launchpad verifies that signature; the Launchpad build manager dispatches builds from its queue to workers in its build farm and retrieves the results; Launchpad publishes successful builds to archives including PPAs, signing them with the appropriate keys; when end users fetch archive indices they are verified against the appropriate key
[16:49] <cjwatson> tzero: Binary packages themselves aren't signed, just the index files
[16:49] <cjwatson> tzero: (But the index files contain hashes of the binary packages, so there's a chain of trust all the way down)
[16:56] <tvoss> cjwatson, who would be the right person to ask about pkgstriptranslations?
[17:02] <tzero> cjwatson: cool, that makes sense
[17:07] <cjwatson> tvoss: pitti
[17:28] <seb128> tvoss, pitti might have called it a day, if you ask on the channel others might be able to help you
[18:48] <YokoZar> So I put in a new Wine upload last night and I noticed that the one I put in a few months ago never made it past -proposed.  I believe cjwatson once told me that Wine uploads had to be approved manually because the cross-arch dependency confuses the autotest into thinking it's uninstallable.
[18:54] <smoser> does this address mean anything special: fe80::5054:ff:fe92:d68
[18:55] <Ajkthx> they are nuclear launch codes
[18:56] <sarnold> fe80 is link-local, right?
[18:58] <smoser> yeah, its link local.
[18:58] <smoser> os i'm trying to boot a cloud image with ipv6
[18:59] <smoser> and setting /etc/network/interfaces like this:
[18:59] <smoser>  http://paste.ubuntu.com/8516509/
[18:59] <smoser> when the system comes all the way up, it has the above address for eth0
[19:01] <smoser> anyone have theories on that ?
[19:01] <smoser> if i log in and
[19:01] <smoser>  ifdown eth0; ifup eth0
[19:02] <smoser> then it comes up properly
[19:02] <geser> smoser: is this the only address on this interface?
[19:03] <smoser> yeah.
[19:03] <smoser> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8516541/ <-- ip addr output
[19:07] <geser> my interfaces file for vmware-image (with trusty) looks similar but also has an ipv4 stance and the ipv6 address gets set up upon boot without problems
[19:20] <smoser> geser, right. the goal is actually to *not* have ipv4 at all.
[19:53] <smoser> stgraber, around ?
[20:16] <smoser> anyone able to make sense of comment 12 at https://bugs.launchpad.net/cloud-init/+bug/1377005 ?
[20:17] <smoser> it seems that without ipv4, 'auto' isn't working right.
[20:47] <geser> smoser: see also bug #1352255
[20:49] <smoser> geser, thank you.
[20:50] <slangasek> right, sounds like a duplicate
[20:50] <slangasek> that is, bug #1377005 sounds like a duplicate of this one
[20:50] <smoser> yeah.
[20:51] <slangasek> smoser: so, my earlier question: what do you get with 'ifdown eth0 && ifup --allow auto eth0'?
[20:51] <slangasek> this is what /etc/init/network-interface.conf does, and is not the same thing as a plain 'ifup eth0'
[20:52] <slangasek> this will let us isolate it to ifupdown itself, vs. the boot scripts
[20:53] <smoser> slangasek, it comes up
[20:53] <smoser> with the desired address
[20:53] <slangasek> ok
[20:53] <smoser> i have to run. thanks for your  help
[21:45] <tzero> are package.init scripts supposed to be automatically detected and included in a package, or do I have to specify them explicitly?
[21:45] <tzero> everything I've read seems to suggest the former
[21:51] <tzero> gpg is also being a PITA
[22:14] <tzero> moreover, adding "override_dh_installinit: \n \t dh_installinit" shows that it runs after dh_installchangelogs and before dh_perl; without those lines, nothing
[23:28] <slangasek> tzero: what command are you running, and what do you mean by "nothing"?  posting your source package and/or your build log would help
[23:37] <tzero> slangasek: I added that override to see where dh_installinit was supposed to show up. Build log is here -> http://sprunge.us/NQfE , and only a configuration file, the binary, and the dh_make generated docs are included in the package
[23:39] <tzero> ${packagename}.init and ${packagename}.default both exist in the debian/ directory, but neither are included
[23:43] <slangasek> tzero: well, I would want to see the whole source package to try to debug this.  dh_installinit should be called unconditionally via dh, unless there's something in debian/rules overriding it
[23:44] <slangasek> tzero: you might compare with the output of 'dh binary --no-act'
[23:49] <tzero> slangasek: hmm, `fakeroot dh binary` added the files. Could it be my override_dh_auto_configure ? that's the only section in rules except for the default %
[23:50] <slangasek> well if you posted your debian/rules, I might be able to tell you ;)
[23:51] <tzero> slangasek: oops, that's here -> http://sprunge.us/gGAN
[23:53] <tzero> it's not that first hacky sed either :(
[23:56] <slangasek> tzero: ok, so your previous build log certainly shows 'fakeroot debian/rules binary' being called, which should be enough to trigger dh_installinit being called.  I'm not sure why your build log doesn't show this; the only reason I know of for commands to be skipped is if they're already seen in the debian/*.debhelper.log, but your build log also includes debian/rules clean
[23:56] <slangasek> tzero: if 'fakeroot dh binary' worked for you now, does it also now work end-to-end?
[23:57] <slangasek> tzero: oh.  this is output from bzr bd, isn't it?
[23:57] <slangasek> tzero: in which case, the problem is you haven't added the debian/*.init to the repo
[23:57] <tzero> slangasek: the buildlog waz `bzr bd -v -- ` output
[23:58] <infinity> Ahh, that wonderfully intuitive behaviour. :)
[23:59] <infinity> tzero: For a bit more verbosity to what Steve said, "bzr bd" first does an export of the repo to a clean location before building.  Cruft (and something you didn't 'bzr add' is "cruft") won't be included in that.


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[01:52] <chibihogoshino> how do i show join parts ?
[02:07] <vychune> hello
[02:09] <chibihogoshino> hi
[02:11] <vychune> how doing
[02:11] <chibihogoshino> meah ..
[02:11] <chibihogoshino> no anime to watch
[02:12] <chibihogoshino> waiting for nest weeks releases
[02:12] <vychune> ikr
[02:12] <vychune> conan for me
[02:13] <chibihogoshino> conan ?
[02:13] <chibihogoshino> the barbarian ?
[02:13] <vychune> detective
[02:13] <chibihogoshino> ahh
[02:13] <chibihogoshino> is that still going ?
[02:14] <vychune> yep since 1994
[02:14] <vychune> lol
[02:14] <chibihogoshino> ouch
[02:15] <chibihogoshino> anything over 50 eps is to much
[02:16] <vychune> lol
[02:19] <chibihogoshino> yeah.. its true..
[02:19] <chibihogoshino> look at all the good anime and how long the series is
[02:19] <vychune> dbz?
[02:19] <chibihogoshino> thats not that good
[02:19] <chibihogoshino> popular dosnt = good
[02:21] <vychune> i like it
[02:21] <chibihogoshino> ef a tale of memories, air, clannad, bastard, cowboy bebop, elfin lied ..
[02:21] <vychune> but yu yu was good
[02:23] <chibihogoshino> i couldnt get into it
[02:23] <EricG> hey everyone
[02:23] <chibihogoshino> hey EricG
[02:24] <vychune> o/
[02:24] <chibihogoshino> what is o/ ?
[02:26] <vychune> waving
[02:27] <chibihogoshino> ahh
[02:28] <EricG> anyone seen netritious lately? had something to ask him, was hoping he would be in
[02:28] <vychune> anyone seen linuxman
[02:29] <chibihogoshino> i haven't
[02:29] <chibihogoshino> with both people
[02:29] <vychune> k
[02:36] <wrst> anyone seen santa claus lately i need to talk with him too :)
[02:36] <chibihogoshino> i shot him when he tried to brake into my house
[02:40] <wrst> darn chibihogoshino ;)
[02:41] <chibihogoshino> i didnt know it was him. he a a ninja suit on
[02:48] <wrst> hate it when he does that
[02:49] <chibihogoshino> yeah
[02:49] <chibihogoshino> to bad the damn elves have his dna and just clone him
[02:50] <wrst> ha ha
[03:05] <vychune> lol
[09:28] <cyberanger> WOAH, ericG stopped by and I missed it
[09:28] <cyberanger> chibihogoshino: what's up?
[13:17] <wrst> morning everyone
[13:18]  * cyberanger wonders if wrst is off or at work
[13:18] <wrst> oh no i'm at work cyberanger
[13:18] <cyberanger> this isn't a holiday for you?
[13:20] <cyberanger> that's a little suprising
[13:21] <cyberanger> but not really a day off here
[13:21] <wrst> no pretty much we just get the big ones,
[13:21] <wrst> sadly i'm not a govt employee, or is that happily that I'm not :)
[13:22] <cyberanger> well, banks are closed too
[13:22] <cyberanger> and I thought the schools, but I might be off on that one
[13:22] <wrst> yeah they are about like the govt
[13:22] <wrst> they were scheduled to be off here but its a makeup day since we ran through all 13 snow days
[13:24] <cyberanger> ah, kinda fits what I thought here
[13:26] <cyberanger> kinda a ripoff for the kids here, some of the snow days were wasted on poor calls
[13:27] <cyberanger> only to rob them of a day they were promised off
[13:27] <wrst> well kinda appeared that in this county but we have part that's lower eleveated and part on the plateau
[13:37] <cyberanger> and it's not a split school district is it
[13:37] <cyberanger> around here, there is similarites, and some differences
[13:38] <wrst> no all the same just the county
[13:38] <cyberanger> but I can see if they really had a snow day, doing what they did
[13:38] <cyberanger> to some extent
[13:38] <cyberanger> but when they call it wrong, it's just worse
[13:39] <cyberanger> every year they call one, apply salt, just to wash it off the road
[13:39] <cyberanger> pointless
[14:40] <vychune> o/
[16:33] <cyberanger> hey vychune and orias
[16:33] <vychune> o/
[16:41] <cyberanger> ugh, more network issues today
[16:41] <cyberanger> I think the cable modem has bit the dust
[16:58] <vychune> lol
[16:58] <orias> :(
[17:04] <cyberanger> the issue is so intermittent, hard to see where the issue is
[17:04] <cyberanger> 3 routers, 3 cat5 cables, 1 cable modem
[17:04] <vychune> that sucks
[17:04] <cyberanger> issue isn't the lan
[17:05] <cyberanger> our cable modem, or somewhere in the isp's system
[17:05] <vychune> bad cable from the router?
[17:06] <cyberanger> from the router out possible
[17:06] <Svpernova09> cyberanger: what's the intermittent issue? Latency spikes to DC? or just latency?
[17:06] <cyberanger> but I'd see the odds against it
[17:06] <cyberanger> without a trigger, root cause
[17:06] <cyberanger> vs an aging modem or outdoor cable
[17:07] <cyberanger> Svpernova09: not latency, but bandwidth
[17:07] <cyberanger> reduced so low their dhcp server isn't getting through
[17:07] <vychune> damn
[17:07] <Svpernova09> So you're getting disconnected and you can't get dhcp from them?
[17:08] <Svpernova09> dhcp or t3 timeouts in the modem log?
[17:08] <cyberanger> well, it's not a clear disconnect
[17:08] <cyberanger> and the modem is too dumb for any real log
[17:08] <cyberanger> or at least their limit
[17:08] <Svpernova09> Any cable modem in use these days should have at least an error log.
[17:08] <Svpernova09> But the reason I ask is I had a similar issue
[17:08] <Svpernova09> Only got it resolved by hassling comcast everyday for 2 weeks, 3 techs
[17:09] <Svpernova09> They finally sent a maint. crew to hte node in my area.
[17:09] <cyberanger> these days go back to 04 or 05
[17:09] <Svpernova09> I got a call the next day, was an issue at the node.
[17:09] <cyberanger> yeah, I suspect something along those results
[17:09] <Svpernova09> Have htem come out and test from modem -> wall, then wall -> outside like, then outside -> pole if they haven't already.
[17:09] <Svpernova09> That'll eliminate bad cable.
[17:09] <cyberanger> but the cable modem has taken abuse too
[17:10] <Svpernova09> I actually ran a fresh cable just to be sure.
[17:10] <cyberanger> and it's to the pole, or others would also complain further up the street
[17:11] <vychune> well looks like you got this nova so im leaving for work
[17:11] <cyberanger> lol, enjoy the commute vychune
[17:12] <cyberanger> Svpernova09: I've narrowed it enough to know it's an isp matter from here
[17:12] <cyberanger> but that's between my folks and them
[17:12] <Svpernova09> Yeah, hte trouble is usually getting the ISP to recognize that.
[17:14] <cyberanger> annoyingly
[17:16] <cyberanger> hey pace_t_zulu
[17:17] <cyberanger> Svpernova09: between my backup options, and the bits of bandwidth I have, IRC is fine at least
[17:17] <pace_t_zulu> hey cyberanger
[17:19] <cyberanger> hey pace_t_zulu, sorry about the meeting, a few things happened, none of which was helpful
[17:19] <pace_t_zulu> cyberanger: its ok
[17:20] <cyberanger> I'm glad one person was on it
[17:20] <pace_t_zulu> cyberanger: in the future, would there be a way for you to pass word along?
[17:20] <cyberanger> so thank you for that
[17:20] <cyberanger> ideally, yes, but granted one part of the mess was an ISP issue, not alot of options
[17:20] <cyberanger> what'd you have in mind?
[17:21] <pace_t_zulu> email or text just to pass word along
[17:23] <cyberanger> more likely, I'd try to pass an email so the meeting can run with or without me, since it did need to happen, if I was in Cleveland, I'd have just gone to a hotspot to run it
[17:23] <cyberanger> no cell phone here, or email
[17:23] <cyberanger> just landline and the isp (with issues)
[17:23] <cyberanger> since I'm at my folks
[17:24] <cyberanger> pace_t_zulu: I'll figure out some better options
[17:25] <cyberanger> somehow
[17:27] <cyberanger> pace_t_zulu: the main thing the meeting was about is I noticed that memphis aside, the other regions have no plans, and it'd be nice to have some long term plans
[17:27] <cyberanger> and that's unfortunate since it's a criteria for our application
[17:28] <cyberanger> I know middle tennessee has more members now, not sure what east tennessee has, I'm southeast and not really mobile for evening events in knoxville like I was
[17:29] <pace_t_zulu> yea, we can try to pick things up in middle tn
[17:29] <pace_t_zulu> east tn is still an issue
[17:29] <cyberanger> we have two members in knoxville, and linuxman410 can't really travel beyond morristown
[17:30] <cyberanger> not sure how to fix that issue, since to  some extent it's a low membership issue
[17:31] <cyberanger> pace_t_zulu: btw, middle tennessee has some mailing list intrest, and a nlug affilated member requests planning in advance to notify them
[17:31] <cyberanger> so I'd like to hope middle and west tn can take off
[17:33] <cyberanger> and east tn too, just not sure of how
[18:26] <cyberanger> cable modem actually seems a little smarter than expected, gave out a class c address, in rfc1918 space
[18:26] <cyberanger> <IP_ADDRESS>
[18:27] <cyberanger> and the modem has some login page, not documented
[18:27] <techMiles> interesting.
[18:28] <cyberanger> went outside (cell coverage isn't ideal for this, but a homeade antenna quickly fasioned, and line of sight, it is working for this)
[18:28] <cyberanger> and logged on, gonna look for any ambit info I can find, ugh
[18:29] <cyberanger> maybe I'll find log details
[18:29] <cyberanger> I know it's an isp issue, not sure what level of proof I can show, unfortunately
[18:32] <cyberanger> this isn't an ideal week, but with my dad out of the house, haiti mission trip, leaving my mom and me, it could be worse for her, least technical in the house
[18:32] <techMiles> yeah
[18:33] <cyberanger> and my dad is more ham radio than networking, but he'd understand the issue too, at least enough to where I could explain the remaining bits
[18:33] <techMiles> yeah
[18:33] <techMiles> my cousin is like that. He doesn't have too much detailed knowledge on certain things, but enough to where I can explain and he gets the fill-in bits
[18:35] <cyberanger> and I grabbed alot of my gear (it's small enough, important peices are a netbook repurposed as a router, with the rest being usb devices, like the celluar data card, 56k dial up modem, and 2nd ethernet card (left that, but the cable modem has that covered, ethernet over usb)
[18:35] <cyberanger> not really overpacking, just force of habit, proves useful too damn much, just like it is again this trip)
[18:36] <techMiles> I know the feeling
[18:36] <cyberanger> unfortunately I also left my switches power supply, but enough here is wifi, the remaining bits can be overlooked for a week
[18:37] <cyberanger> but without the intent to run the home network here, I've got all the peices to keep it running with cable failing here
[18:39] <techMiles> lol
[18:39] <cyberanger> in june, I was travelling with family, had a boost mobile phone, iden (nextel) model, tethered at 20kbps max, enough for IRC
[18:39] <techMiles> geeze
[18:39] <techMiles> hardcore. :P
[18:40] <cyberanger> at that time, I didn't have enough on my custom install for the network at RIT, used a Radius server on the wifi
[18:41] <cyberanger> and what's funny, I could have done a few things to get it working (the simpliest would have been grabbing a livecd, and this was a Foss Convention, didn't have to look hard)
[18:41] <cyberanger> but idk why I just let it be
[18:41] <cyberanger> so my whole trip in Rochester, NY was on 20kbps celluar
[18:42] <cyberanger> before that, I was in Manchester, CT (outside hardford)
[18:42] <cyberanger> and they had an AT&T Uverse supplied router, with wep
[18:42] <cyberanger> didn't know the password, or where they may have put it
[18:43] <cyberanger> under 5 minutes, I handed them THEIR password, and was connected
[18:43] <cyberanger> it was an odd trip, reminded me, there's no place like <IP_ADDRESS>
[18:47] <techMiles> cyberanger: yeah that's what happens. why in hell did they use WEP?
[18:47] <cyberanger> beats being open
[18:47] <cyberanger> they used stock settings
[18:48] <cyberanger> AT&T was giving them some nice stock settings
[18:49] <cyberanger> considering they weren't putting a sign up saying, "Free WiFI Here, All welcome"
[18:53] <cyberanger> but yeah, my Aunt had wep, and I had 5 minutes (and consent)
[18:53] <cyberanger> and my Grandma had no connection, but I did
[19:03] <cyberanger> Svpernova09: found the logs
[19:03] <cyberanger> managed to login
[19:03] <cyberanger> didn't forsee some of the login combos
[19:06] <cyberanger> T2 T3 and T4 Timeout, DHCP WARNING,
[19:06] <cyberanger> definately a mess
[19:08] <cyberanger> Svpernova09: I'm unaware of the T2, T3 and T4 timeout errors, understand the majority of the others, appears to be upstream for sure
[19:08] <cyberanger> any of that helpful, helpful how?
[19:10] <Svpernova09> My issue was with comcast,so the t3 errors were likely unique to them, but what it may indicate is an internal routing issue of their dhcp
[19:28] <cyberanger> well, it's logged in my modem
[19:29] <cyberanger> appears seperate from the DHCP errors
[19:29] <cyberanger> and the T2 & T4 Timeout errors
[19:29] <cyberanger> let alone other errors I understand as errors for charter
[19:29] <cyberanger> or your case comcast
[19:29] <cyberanger> modulation errors
[19:30] <cyberanger> all point to a physical issue
[19:37] <cyberanger> maybe a quality bit
[22:58] <cyberanger> succumbed to it's wounds, it seems
[22:59] <cyberanger> and some say Redundancy is a bad ;-)


[16:05] <cqfd93> Hi Everybody!
[16:05] <hannie> hey cqfd93
[16:05] <hannie> are you one of our authors, editors or translators?
[16:05] <cqfd93> hannie, I used nl.po to generate the Dutch manual (precise)
[16:06] <hannie> is cqfd93 a nick for carsten?
[16:06] <cqfd93> oh sorry !  I'm Sylvie Gallet (French translator)
[16:06] <hannie> ah, nice to meet you
[16:06] <cqfd93> nice to meet you, too :-)
[16:06] <hannie> the name of my neighbour is Gallet (Lucien et Simone)
[16:07] <cqfd93> French names
[16:07] <hannie> cqfd93, did you get the index in the Dutch version of the manual?
[16:07] <cqfd93> Gallet is a very common name in France
[16:07] <hannie> I live in France
[16:07] <cqfd93> I was about to talk to you about the index
[16:08] <cqfd93> where in France?
[16:08] <hannie> ok, did you get it?
[16:08] <hannie> quarante six
[16:08] <hannie> Lot
[16:08] <cqfd93> ye, I got the index, but there are some problems, and like in the French manual, no links
[16:09] <hannie> ok, I just wrote to Kevin about it. When the index is ok we are ready to publish the Dutch version
[16:09] <cqfd93> lot: nice area!
[16:09] <hannie> and you (fr)?
[16:10] <hannie> Which links do you mean?
[16:10] <cqfd93> I wanted to see if you had the same problem we're having with the "Debien" index entry
[16:10] <cqfd93> Living near Parin
[16:11] <cqfd93> for the links, the page numbers just appear black regular numbers, they don't link to the pages
[16:11] <hannie> Have you installed texlive 2012?
[16:11] <cqfd93> yes
[16:11] <cqfd93> My texlive install is up to date
[16:12] <hannie> I installed it today (I had 2011), but the index doesn't show
[16:12] <YoBoY> cqfd93, hannie I talk with kevin the other day about these links in the index, he deactivated them for now
[16:13] <YoBoY> > YoBoY: Ah,  that's not a bug per se.
[16:13] <YoBoY> > YoBoY: The hyperref package (which provides the links) and the xindy program (which handles the indexing), aren't completely compatible.
[16:13] <hannie> hey YoBoY , so that may be the problem
[16:13] <cqfd93> Hi YoBoY!
[16:13] <YoBoY> bonjour :)
[16:14] <hannie> well, if Kevin awakes, he will answer my email
[16:14] <cqfd93> The Dutch translation has another problem: they translated all of the see| and seealso| (these should remain in English)
[16:15] <hannie> ay, cqfd93 I'll have to fix that
[16:15] <hannie> I am going to have a look right now
[16:16] <cqfd93> hannie, after you fix that, you will probably have another error caused by "Debian|seealso{Linux}"
[16:17] <hannie> gotit, I am going to fix it straightaway (I never noticed ;) )
[16:17] <YoBoY> and I asked on launchpad mailing list and on a french LaTeX mailing list how to deal with our nbsp problems with the best flexibility :)
[16:17] <YoBoY> seems Launchpad can't help us on that
[16:18] <hannie> what is nbsp?
[16:18] <YoBoY> non breaking space
[16:18] <hannie> ok
[16:18] <YoBoY> we use them a lot in French typography :)
[16:19] <cqfd93> hannie: you can temporarily replace it with "Debian" but the index entry will show two page numbers instead of just page 6
[16:19] <hannie> Should they be added to the clo file?
[16:19] <hannie> nbsp I mean
[16:19] <hannie> cqfd93, I'll do that too
[16:20] <cqfd93> ok, hope it helps!
[16:20] <hannie> I will let you know
[16:20] <cqfd93> ok
[16:23] <YoBoY> hannie, there is already nbsp, it's just they cause some bugs with the tools we use. It's for now fixed, but it's not clean enought. It's why I try to find a better way to deal with them :)
[16:23] <hannie> right, thanks for explaining
[16:26] <hannie> cqfd93, I have fixed the see/seealso. Before I test, should I replace Linux with Debian?
[16:26] <hannie> "Debian|seealso{Debian}"
[16:27] <hannie> I could also use # to leave it out for the moment
[16:29] <cqfd93> Just replace it with "Debian"
[16:30] <cqfd93> hannie, did you update hyperref 6.83m as it was required a few days ago for revision 168 in quantal and rev 123 in precise?
[16:30] <manualbot> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/revision/123 | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual -r 123
[16:32] <hannie> the first link gives me "Not found"
[16:32] <hannie> the second also
[16:33] <YoBoY> don't trust the bot :)
[16:33] <hannie> No, they are just machines ;)
[16:33] <YoBoY> he can only give links for the focus branch and it's raring now
[16:36] <hannie> in revision 123 (Precise-e2) I see % Hyperref options for print/screen versions
[16:37] <hannie> %\RequirePackage{ccicons}% Creative Commons icons
[16:37] <hannie> can I just use the command apt-get install ccicons?
[16:47]  * cqfd93 trying to find kevin's email where he explains how to opdate hyperref
[16:48] <YoBoY> hannie, you just have to launch the install-pkgs.sh to have the ccbysa working, but I don't know if kevin already corrected a bug on that
[16:48] <cqfd93> I don't know about ccicons
[16:49] <hannie> YoBoY, did that already, but U used the precise-e2 folder /pkgs
[16:49] <hannie> I have just installed texlive-extra-fonts
[16:50] <hannie> I am going to do another check for packages
[16:50] <YoBoY> yes sure, I'm not mixing versions ^^
[16:50] <hannie> I had a fight with removing 2011, but now I have 2012
[16:52] <hannie> install-pkgs.sh report: Done! You should now be able to compile the Ubuntu manual!
[16:54] <hannie> oops! Warning: Old configuration style found in /etc/texmf/updmap.d
[16:54] <hannie> Warning: For now these files have been included,
[16:54] <hannie> Looks like version 2011 has not been removed completely
[16:55] <cqfd93> Just generated your manual (precise: 147 pages) it's showint some problems in the index (duplicate entries) that will require some cleaning in the translation (we had the same kind of problems in the French manuals a few days ago)
[16:56] <cqfd93> hannie: good! Are you trying to generate the pdf?
[16:56] <hannie> cqfd93, did you use my latest nl.po (see/seealso fixed)?
[16:57] <hannie> cqfd93, I get 145 pages, because the index is not generated
[16:57] <cqfd93> I fixed it on my computer :-)
[16:57] <hannie> ok, now it is fixed in LP too
[16:58] <cqfd93> do you get a "success" message?
[16:58] <hannie> I do get 1 error, tried to find it, but no success. Besides, you used the same po file without problems
[16:59] <hannie> So, the problem is my texlive 2012
[16:59] <hannie> No file ubuntu-manual-nl.ind.
[16:59] <hannie> I guess this means the index file was not made
[17:00] <cqfd93> the culprit is probably your hyperref version
[17:00] <hannie> cqfd93, any idea how I can update this hyperref version?
[17:01] <hannie> hi CarstenG
[17:01] <hannie> No file ubuntu-manual-nl.ind.
[17:01] <CarstenG> Hi Hannie
[17:01] <cqfd93> hannie, here is a link to your manual http://ubuntuone.com/3x710bSerEI3hOhgUIxDxd
[17:01] <cqfd93> hi CarstenG
[17:02] <CarstenG> Hi Sylvie
[17:02] <cqfd93> hannie, try this command sudo tlmgr update --all --self
[17:03] <cqfd93> tlmgr is the texlive update manager
[17:04] <hannie> cqfd93, output is: tlmgr: no updates available
[17:04] <cqfd93> sounds good
[17:05] <hannie> not so good, because my problem is still not solved :(
[17:05] <cqfd93> right!
[17:05] <hannie> tlmgr revision 28216 (2012-11-09 13:34:08 +0100)
[17:05] <hannie> tlmgr using installation: /usr/local/texlive/2012
[17:05] <hannie> TeX Live (http://tug.org/texlive) version 2012
[17:06] <hannie> here you can see I have version 2012 installed
[17:06] <hannie> I am afraid I will have to reinstall Ubuntu altogether
[17:08] <cqfd93> reinstalling ubuntu might be too much!
[17:08] <hannie> well, reinstalling texlive only gives misery
[17:09] <hannie> The font "CC Icons" cannot be found.
[17:09] <cqfd93> Was the manual generated in Dutch with just the index missing?
[17:09] <hannie> I have just installed texlive-extra-fonts
[17:09] <hannie> I thought ccicons was in there
[17:10] <cqfd93> I remember I had ti install the font, just don't remember when and where I got it
[17:10] <hannie> cqfd93, yes, the manual looks good, only there is no index
[17:10] <hannie> and the English version gives me the ccicons error
[17:10] <cqfd93> you may have to talk with kevin about that, I'm not sure I can really help
[17:11] <hannie> well, you have been a help so far, only finding the solution is very hard
[17:21] <cqfd93> Still can't find where I got ccicons...
[17:22] <hannie> don't worry, I'll find it
[17:25] <CarstenG> Hannie, I have just read your discussion with Sylvie in the logs.
[17:26] <CarstenG> Could you pleas do a "make clean"
[17:26] <hannie> ok, any suggestions? I cannot generate the indes. The rest is fine
[17:26] <CarstenG> And then a "make ubuntu-manual-nl.pdf"
[17:26] <hannie> *index
[17:26] <CarstenG> And email me the complete output from the terminal.
[17:26] <godbyk> Hey, hannie. I just uploaded the Dutch title page to the precise-e2 branch so it should start appearing in the PDF.
[17:26] <hannie> I already did that twice :( I'll do it once more (for you ;) )
[17:27] <cqfd93> hi godbyk!
[17:27] <godbyk> Hey, Sylvie!
[17:27] <godbyk> I'm just getting caught up on the conversations here. :)
[17:27] <hannie> hey godbyk My worries at the moment are that I cannot generate the index
[17:28] <hannie> godbyk, thanks for the title page
[17:29] <godbyk> hannie: Okay. Should I use the nl.po in the repository or the one from Launchpad?
[17:29] <hannie> I uploaded the latest version to LP a while ago. That one is fine
[17:30] <godbyk> Okay. I'm building the PDF now with the one from the repository. We'll see how it goes.
[17:30] <hannie> I'll keep my fingers crossed
[17:30] <godbyk> hannie: I had to remove the links from the index because they were confusing the indexing program. For now, I think we'll just have to leave the linked turned off in the index.
[17:31] <godbyk> cqfd93: I figured out why the Debian entry was showing two page numbers.
[17:31] <hannie> CarstenG, a miracle has happened. The third time I gave the same commands I suddenly get 149 pages (instead of 145)
[17:31] <godbyk> cqfd93: The \index{Debian|seealso{Linux}} command it at the top of the index file (which is okay).
[17:31] <hannie> Let me see if I get an index now
[17:32] <godbyk> cqfd93: But when we remove the seealso bit, it becomes a regular index entry (with a page number), and that's bad.
[17:32] <godbyk> cqfd93: So the better solution is just to remove that entire \index line.
[17:32] <godbyk> cqfd93: Unfortunately, this can't be done from Launchpad. We can only do it by modifying the fr.po file itself.
[17:32] <godbyk> cqfd93: So we'll deal with that once all the other translation stuff has been finished in Launchpad.
[17:33] <hannie> I'll be **** CarstenG I think you are a witch doctor :)
[17:33] <hannie> godbyk, I have done a make clean for the 3rd time and suddenly I get the index
[17:34] <cqfd93> kevin: a few days ago, I told you that the best fix would be to remove the \index{Debian} and keep Debian|see{Linux}  (but see, not seealso)
[17:34] <hannie> godbyk, so now I can finally check the index for errors. You do not have to bother about it anymore
[17:35] <godbyk> hannie: Strange.
[17:35] <godbyk> hannie: I'm glad to hear it's working for you, though.
[17:35] <godbyk> hannie: Did you get the new CC Icons font installed?
[17:35] <hannie> godbyk, it was blood sweat and tears to replace texlive 2011 with 2012
[17:35] <godbyk> hannie: Just run the install-pkgs.sh script from either the quantal or raring branches. (I haven't uploaded it to precise-e2, yet.)
[17:36] <hannie> godbyk, I did that several times. Everything ok the log says
[17:36] <godbyk> hannie: I'm surprised it was so difficult. You should've been able to just remove the /usr/local/texlive/2011 directory and install 2012 as usual.
[17:36] <godbyk> hannie: I just checked the Dutch PDF here and the index shows up. So hopefully it was just a temporary problem on your end.
[17:36] <godbyk> hannie: Let me know if you continue to encounter problems with it, though.
[17:37] <hannie> godbyk, I made a very big mistake, I used gksudo to remove 2011. And I am punished for it
[17:38] <hannie> godbyk, I'll check the index and let you know when it is ok tomorrow
[17:38] <godbyk> hannie: I would expect that to work. (Though I'm a command-line kind of guy, so I would've just ran 'sudo rm -fr /usr/local/texlive/2011/' from the terminal.)
[17:39] <hannie> godbyk, the sudo etc. did not work, so I tried the stronger root admin option
[17:39] <CarstenG> Hey Hannie, congratulations!
[17:39] <CarstenG> Nice to see, that it now works. :-)
[17:39] <hannie> CarstenG, yes, I am glad the misery is over ;)
[17:40] <hannie> I will not lightly use gksudo in the future
[17:41] <hannie> godbyk, what does the -fr in your command do?
[17:42] <godbyk> hannie: -f is force and -r is recursive.  -r lets you remove entire directories. and -f tells it not to ask any questions. :)
[17:43] <hannie> ah, I should learn all these options. they are very powerful indeed.
[17:48] <hannie> godbyk, I used sudo apt-get remove texlive-* (from our website), but that did not remove /usr/local/texlive/2011
[17:49] <godbyk> hannie: No, that would only remove any Ubuntu texlive package you have installed.
[17:49] <godbyk> hannie: You have to remove the /usr/local/tex/live/2011 directory manually.
[17:49] <godbyk> hannie: (Though it doesn't hurt anything if you leave it there when you install 2012. It just takes up space on your hard drive.)
[17:52] <hannie> godbyk, no, when I installed texlive from Ubuntu software center I got conflicts with /usr/local/texlive/2011
[17:52] <godbyk> hannie: Oh, strange.
[17:52] <godbyk> I was hoping that we could start using the Ubuntu texlive packages, but we can't if we want the index to work right.
[17:53] <hannie> that's why I decided to radically remove /2011 with gksudo (and bled for it)
[17:53] <godbyk> (For people who aren't worried about the index, they can still use the Ubuntu texlive packages, though.)
[17:54] <hannie> godbyk, using the instructions on our website to install texlive work fine
[17:56] <godbyk> On an unrelated note, it's nice to see some activity in this channel again. :)
[17:57] <hannie> talking about activity, it won't take long before we have to start with raring
[17:58] <godbyk> hannie: Yes.
[17:58] <godbyk> We'll have to have a meeting and set the dates for the milestones and make sure we still have authors and editors.
[17:59] <hannie> I am just checking the release schedule
[18:00] <hannie> I see the final beta release is on March 28 2013
[18:01] <godbyk> What day is the final release?
[18:01] <hannie> April 25
[18:01] <hannie> So if we wait for the final beta release, we have one month
[18:02] <hannie> Would that be sufficient? I do not think going from Quantal to Raring will be a very big step with lots of changes
[18:03] <hannie> Alpha 2 is released on February 7th
[18:06] <godbyk> I think we should start writing before the beta release, but we can fix any last-minute changes during editing.
[18:07] <godbyk> I hope they stick to the feature freeze and UI freeze better this time.
[18:07] <hannie> ok, so starting from alpha 2 would be fine
[18:08] <godbyk> I think so. And if anyone wants to dive in earlier, I have no complaints about that. ;-)
[18:08] <hannie> We could plan a meeting beginning of February 2013
[18:09] <godbyk> We may have an earlier meeting, too, to plan some other parts of the project that don't directly involve writing the manual (e.g., the website, e-book possibilities).
[18:10] <hannie> ok, how about beginning of January?
[18:13] <godbyk> That sounds good.
[18:13] <godbyk> I'll send out an email after the holidays and we'll find a good time for everyone to meet.
[18:13] <hannie> great! see you all, guys
[18:14] <CarstenG> Hannie, you changed in rev 128 the command "\appendixname" to "appendix". So you do not get the Dutch translation "Bijlage"
[18:14] <manualbot> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/revision/128 | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual -r 128
[18:14] <CarstenG> for that word any more.
[18:14] <godbyk> See you, hannie!
[18:14] <CarstenG> What's wrong with that word?
[18:15] <CarstenG> ok, I will email her. :-)
[18:15] <godbyk> CarstenG: Guess so. :)
[18:25] <CarstenG> Oh, there is again a new language complete in precise-e2, Malay
[18:25] <CarstenG> Great to see!
[18:26] <godbyk> Cool.
[18:27] <godbyk> My current task is trying to sort out how to get our PDFs to work well with all of lulu.com's printers.
[18:32] <CarstenG> I had the idea, to go to a local copy shop with our PDF and let them test it for any problems.
[18:40] <godbyk> CarstenG: Well, Jeremy's PDF test program didn't report any problems after we fixed the transparency issues.
[18:40] <godbyk> CarstenG: I'm looking into getting a copy of Adobe Acrobat to see if it can fix things.
[19:24] <CarstenG> Yes, good idea.
[19:25] <CarstenG> I have to leave now
[19:25] <CarstenG> See you


 ㅂ... 봇탱이가 ... 또 말을 한다!
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