[09:28] <xstasi> good morning everyone
[09:28] <xstasi> siretart, ping
[09:29] <siretart> xstasi: yes?
[09:29] <xstasi> hi mentor :)
[09:30] <siretart> ah, hi there :)
[09:30] <xstasi> should we switch to pm?
[09:30] <siretart> sure
[09:30] <Hobbsee> xstasi: if you stay here, others can benefit, btw
[09:30] <siretart> I don't really mind
[09:31] <xstasi> Hobbsee, i know of course, i just don't see how others can benefit of personal informations :)
[09:31] <coNP> most of us would sell them for good money :)
[09:31] <xstasi> lol
[09:31] <superm1> Hobbsee, did you ever happen to make any more sense of the mythbuntu-meta package/seed and whether things are being done right?
[09:32] <Hobbsee> superm1: didnt look
[09:32] <Hobbsee> xstasi: ahh
[09:33] <superm1> Hobbsee, ah.  Well i had asked colin to take a gander, and he said he would at some point, just not sure when he will get the time to do so
[09:36] <superm1> Hobbsee, well if you get a few moments sometime this next week to sit down with it, i'd like to ideally have a revision of this in before UVF in 2 weeks
[09:36] <Hobbsee> maybe
[09:38] <superm1> Hobbsee, if you don't get a chance to, do you know any other MOTUs that *do* have experience with the seeding?  My efforts in asking around haven't turned up anyone else yet
[09:38] <Hobbsee> superm1: i should do.  most of the core devs should have at least an idea
[09:39] <superm1> mkay Hobbsee thx :)
[11:19] <brylie> how can I view the location of an installed package via aptitude?
[11:20] <Hobbsee> dpkg -S packagename
[11:20] <Hobbsee> no idea via aptitude
[11:20] <brylie> ok i'll try that
[11:21] <brylie> what about for apt?
[11:21] <Hobbsee> no idea for that either.  perhaps it helps if you actually tell us what you awnt to do
[11:21] <Hobbsee> they're both front ends for dpkg
[11:22] <brylie> I want to find the location of aoxm in the apache2 install
[11:23] <brylie> sorry.. APXS
[11:23] <Hobbsee> ah right
[11:23] <brylie> There have been other instances where I have needed to find the path to an installed file.
[11:23] <Seveas> brylie, apt-file search filename
[11:24] <Seveas> works for packages you haven't installed as well
[11:25] <brylie> apt-file: command not found
[11:25] <brylie> cache?
[11:25] <Seveas> apt-get install apt-file; apt-file update
[11:26] <brylie> oh.. not part of the apt core?
[11:26] <Hobbsee> no
[11:56] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 130122 in luatex-snapshot "Package is missing and available in Debian Unstable" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/130122
[11:56] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: yeah
[11:56] <Hobbsee> it's failed to build
[11:56] <Fujitsu> Ahh.
[11:57] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: looks like a good candidate for a hopeful
[11:57] <Hobbsee> cp: cannot stat `build/texk/web2c/web2c/{web2c,fixwrites,splitup}': No such file or directory
[11:57] <Hobbsee> cp: cannot stat `build/texk/web2c/{luatex,tangle,tangleboot,luatangle}': No such file or directory
[11:57] <Hobbsee> strip: 'linux/texk/web2c/luatex': No such file
[11:57] <Hobbsee> ls: linux/texk/web2c/luatex: No such file or directory
[11:58] <Fujitsu> Mhm.
[11:58] <DktrKranz> dash does not handle correctly {
[11:59] <Fujitsu> DktrKranz: It handles them fine.
[11:59] <Hobbsee> i doubt it'll fix it, but it looks like some nice new stuff in there
[11:59] <Fujitsu> DktrKranz: It doesn't support the bash intepretation of them.
[11:59] <Hobbsee> DktrKranz: dash does not handle bashisms, yes.  bashisms seem to only be handled in bash, oddly enough.
[11:59] <DktrKranz> Fujitsu, I was referring to that, thanks
[12:00] <Fujitsu> It handles them correctly.
[12:01] <DktrKranz> IIRC, there was a fix some months ago which explode them, one line per directory
[12:01] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: mind filing a debian bgu about it containing bashisms?
[12:07] <norsetto> morning all :-)
[12:10] <Hobbsee> morning norsetto
[12:10] <Hobbsee> norsetto: i have a bug for you to fix.
[12:11] <Hobbsee> norsetto: how'd you go with the first one i gave you before?
[12:11] <Hobbsee> norsetto: please fix teh new version of luatex-snapshot to build :)
[12:12] <Hobbsee> norsetto: i think it'll fail - the last version did
[12:12] <norsetto> Hobbsee: bug 129741 and bug 129742; it now builds but the gui mode doesn't work (like for feisty)
[12:12] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 129741 in turkey "[gutsy]  turkey is not installable" [Undecided,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/129741
[12:12] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 129742 in turkey "[ftbfs]  turkey ftbfs on gutsy" [Undecided,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/129742
[12:12] <Hobbsee> norsetto: ahhhh.  good start :)
[12:12] <Hobbsee> then you have to decide if you care enough to fix it more so :)
[12:16] <norsetto> Hobbsee: most probably a change in the api not reflected in the java code
[12:37] <norsetto> Hobbsee: yes, it fails indeed to ftbfs on a compilation error of pdftoepdf.cc (different from previous ftbfs)
[12:45] <LucidFox> norsetto, was it you who wanted ktoon in Ubuntu?
[12:47] <Kmos> bug 129551
[12:47] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 129551 in watchdog "Please sync watchdog (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Triaged]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/129551
[12:47] <Kmos> what's the problem with this one ?
[12:47] <norsetto> LucidFox: no, I was just looking at the request for packaging
[12:47] <norsetto> LucidFox: did you solve the ftbfs?
[12:47] <LucidFox> yes
[12:47] <LucidFox> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/k/ktoon/
[12:47] <white> norsetto: is that one fixed here? http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=424445
[12:48] <ubotu> Debian bug 424445 in turkey "turkey - FTBFS: /build/user/turkey-1.34.0/build.xml:28: Compile failed; see the compiler error output for details." [Serious,Open]
[12:48] <white> there is this one here as well
[12:48] <white> !debian bug 421725
[12:48] <ubotu> Debian bug 421725 in turkey "turkey: Uninstallable due to unmet dep on libgcj7-awt" [Grave,Open]  http://bugs.debian.org/421725
[12:49] <norsetto> LucidFox: very good. Then add the patch to the bug report
[12:49] <white> interesting sense of humor:
[12:49] <white> 12:48 <ubotu> Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
[12:49] <LucidFox> heh
[12:49] <norsetto> white: yes, these are the relevant upstream bug reports
[12:50] <white> norsetto: are you interested in maintaining the package? :)
[12:50] <norsetto> white: why? you want to look into it?
[12:51] <white> norsetto: i am interested in getting maintainers for the qa packages in general :)
[12:52] <white> norsetto: and believe me, it always works to get sponsors for adopting qa packages :)
[12:52] <norsetto> white: Hobbsee asked me to look into it, so perhpas she wants to maintain it
[12:52] <norsetto> white: but if she doesn't, sure why not (it will be a good excuse to learn Java....)
[12:53] <norsetto> white: So, perhaps I'm not the best person (being Java illiterate)
[12:55] <white> norsetto: cool. I did not look into the package, but if you write a ITA and prepare a new package version, which addresses the bugs, then you can send it to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>and ask for a sponsor. After the upload you can sync it to ubuntu
[12:55] <norsetto> white: ok, let me note that, will do if I squash the bug
[12:57] <norsetto> white: thx for letting me know, appreciate it
[12:57] <Kmos> Hobbsee: do you see the debdiff for stunntel4 ?
[12:57] <norsetto> kmos: she is not in yet
[12:58] <Kmos> norsetto: i wait :)
[12:58] <white> you are welcome
[01:45] <Kmos> StevenK: gambas latest fix is to change debian/control to only build package on i386.
[01:45] <Kmos> #   gutsy sparc   Failed to build
[01:45] <Kmos> # gutsy powerpc Failed to build
[01:45] <Kmos> # gutsy i386 Successfully built
[01:45] <Kmos> :)
[01:47] <Hobbsee> Kmos: then...fix it?
[01:48] <Kmos> Hobbsee: I can do it.. or request the sync from debian that has that fix. http://packages.qa.debian.org/g/gambas/news/20070702T140204Z.html
[01:49] <Kmos> Hobbsee: you see the debdiff for stunnel4 ?
[01:51] <gnomefreak> joejaxx: are you around?
[01:52] <gnomefreak> ubuntustudio-audio depends need to be fixed or explained
[01:52] <gnomefreak> its depending on a package we dont have in repos
[01:53] <gnomefreak> Hobbsee: everything kubuntu gets removed on new updates
[01:53] <gnomefreak> not everything but like 15 packages
[01:53] <jussi01> gnomefreak: which package does it depend on?
[01:53] <gnomefreak> jussi01: ardour,
[01:54] <gnomefreak> search ardour and you end up with 2 packages neither have anything to do with ardour afaik
[01:54] <jussi01> !find ardour
[01:54] <ubotu> Found: ardour-doc, ardour-gtk, ardour-gtk-dbg, ardour-gtk-i686, ardour-session-exchange
[01:55] <jussi01> hmmm
[01:55] <gnomefreak> gnomefreak@GutsyGibbon:~$ search ardour
[01:55] <gnomefreak> fil-plugins - parametric equalizer LADSPA plugin
[01:55] <gnomefreak> tap-plugins - Tom's Audio Processing LADSPA plugins
[01:56] <gnomefreak> maybe change depends to ardour-gtk to be atleast installible
[01:56] <gnomefreak> those packages are not in gutsy
[01:56] <Fujitsu> ardour FTBFS due to some scons silliness, AFAIK.
[01:56] <Fujitsu> It was intentional.
[01:56] <jussi01> yeah, thats was right, i remember now
[02:00] <norsetto> white: ping
[02:03] <Hobbsee> norsetto: no no, i dont want to touch it.  i was just looking to give you stuff to do, that you'd be able to sink your teeth into :)
[02:03] <Hobbsee> however, i did assume it would work out in the end
[02:03] <norsetto> Hobbsee: have an update on that
[02:04] <Hobbsee> Kmos: i havent looked.  i did go to uni and such today, and cant spend 24 hours a day on ubuntu.
[02:04] <norsetto> Hobbsee: the problem is in gcj
[02:04] <Hobbsee> Kmos: i read backscroll from earliest to latest - no need to repeat.  hence, respond to the earliest stuff first
[02:04] <norsetto> Hobbsee: in particular Netkernel, that code will never run on gnucgj
[02:05] <Hobbsee> gnomefreak: got a pastebin output of it?
[02:05] <gnomefreak> Hobbsee: sure :)
[02:05] <norsetto> Hobbsee: it runs fine on the sava jvm
[02:05] <Hobbsee> norsetto: ah right
[02:05] <norsetto> Hobbsee: sorry, s/sava/jave
[02:05] <Hobbsee> hehe, i was attempting to figure that out :)
[02:06] <gnomefreak> Hobbsee: http://gnomefreak.pastebin.ca/644233
[02:06] <Hobbsee> norsetto: ahhhh
[02:06] <gnomefreak> Hobbsee: sticking with python-sip4 is reason
[02:07] <Hobbsee> what, again?
[02:07] <Hobbsee> bah.
[02:07] <norsetto> Hobbsee: as a matter of fact I  tested it with sun java and turkeys runs happily as a turkey
[02:07] <Hobbsee> norsetto: oh nice!  may be worth changing the dep, and asking an archive admin to move it to multiverse
[02:08] <norsetto> hobbsee: ok will do, too bad for Debian, they are stuck I guess
[02:08] <gnomefreak> norsetto: why not push your fix to debian as well?
[02:09] <norsetto> sorry guys, wife is calling (lunch time)
[02:09] <Hobbsee> enjoy :)
[02:12] <afflux> could some motu please review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=6283 ? thanks
[02:21] <xxxxx1> good morning!
[02:21] <coNP> hey xxxxx1
[02:25] <xxxxx1> hello coNP
[02:27] <Hobbsee> hi xxxxx1
[02:27] <xxxxx1> Hobbsee, hello :D
[02:31] <ScottK> Kmos: I already told you yesterday that I thought syncing an svn snapshot of Gambas was a bad idea.
[02:32] <ScottK> Kmos: What is the practical effect of getting the change to build Gambas only on i386?
[02:33] <Hobbsee> ScottK: i said it was ok in -devel, btw.  to fix the ftbfs' on all the other arches
[02:33] <StevenK> ... why not just fix it building on the other arches .... ?
[02:34] <Hobbsee> StevenK: good question.  ask debian why they decided not to, and then ask yourself whether you care enough to make it work on ubuntu, instead of never having to touch it again
[02:35] <ScottK> Hobbsee: Agreed, but in this case his sync would take as from a release that works on i386 to an svn snapshot that works only on i386, so maybe an Ubuntu revision to just build on i386, but not syncing the whole package I think.
[02:36] <Hobbsee> ScottK: granted.
[02:36] <ScottK> Which is what I told him yesterday.
[02:36] <Hobbsee> xxxxx1: mind fixing http://launchpadlibrarian.net/8675350/buildlog_ubuntu-gutsy-i386.gtk2hs_0.9.11-2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz for me?  :)
[02:36] <Kmos> ScottK: yesterday I think I told you about gambas2, not gambas
[02:36] <ScottK> Kmos: OK.  Fair point.
[02:36] <Hobbsee> ScottK: unsure if this one is a svn snapshot, actually
[02:36] <Hobbsee> ScottK: i didnt notice a svn version on it, but may not have glanced there
[02:36] <ScottK> Yeah.  He's right that it was gambas2.
[02:37] <Kmos> http://packages.qa.debian.org/g/gambas2.html
[02:37] <StevenK> Hobbsee: I think it was because "upstream said so"
[02:37] <Kmos> that one is svn
[02:37] <ScottK> Kmos: Do you use gambas?
[02:37] <StevenK> Hobbsee: gtk2hs can be given-back when ghc6-doc is fixed.
[02:37] <Hobbsee> StevenK: then do you care?
[02:38] <Hobbsee> StevenK: ah right.  was about to check that, but figured it might be a good task for a hopeful to work with :)
[02:38] <Kmos> ScottK: no.. but a friend mine
[02:38] <StevenK> Hobbsee: I can fix ghc6-doc if you want.
[02:38] <Kmos> ScottK: why?
[02:38] <ScottK> Because you are continuing to ask about syncing stuff you know nothing about.  You need to stop.
[02:40] <Hobbsee> Kmos: there's still way more important stuff to do than random syncs.
[02:40] <Kmos> and I need to use every package to know if I can do a sync ?
[02:40] <Hobbsee> like, fixing bugs
[02:40] <Kmos> Hobbsee: I've also doing that.. check ubuntu bug day..
[02:40] <Hobbsee> Kmos: no,but there's no point in syncing the world either.
[02:41] <Hobbsee> Kmos: if we were into that, the autosync would have been left on
[02:41] <Kmos> Hobbsee: I know that.. i asked for gambas because it was problems in other archs
[02:41] <Kmos> and it's fixed on debian, so sync it more easy (i only know that, because I'm not admin, motu or anything else)
[02:41] <Hobbsee> Kmos: there are still lots of other more important bits to work on than that.
[02:41] <Kmos> Hobbsee: u're right
[02:42] <Hobbsee> Kmos: because it still takes time to sponsor it, for the archive admin to do it, and there's already stacks to do already
[02:42] <Hobbsee> Kmos: go do some work on bugs, and ask us about closing any of them.
[02:42] <Kmos> ok :)
[02:43] <Kmos> Hobbsee: another bug i found today, is someone can't run gambas on feisty and gutsy.. so that's i remember of gambas, it's not random
[02:43] <Kmos> =)
[02:43] <Hobbsee> fair enough
[02:43] <Hobbsee> StevenK: that would be cool.  i've not looked into it at all
[02:44] <StevenK> Hobbsee: I've been looking for the past few minutes.
[02:44] <Hobbsee> StevenK: great :)
[02:44] <Kmos> bug 130137
[02:44] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 130137 in gambas "gambas doesn't open" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/130137
[02:45] <Hobbsee> Kmos: desktop bugs for applications that you actually use would be good, because then you can actually test for the issues
[02:45] <ScottK> AndyP: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/8675916/buildlog_ubuntu-gutsy-ia64.syck_0.55%2Bsvn256-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz - You asked for the sync.  Please fix it.
[02:46] <ScottK> AndyP: Feel free to PM me if you need advice.  I'll give it if I have some.
[02:46] <ScottK> I gotta get off this channel.
[02:46] <Hobbsee> ScottK: it's ia64, though.  do we care?  :)
[02:47] <ScottK> It's a matter of degree.
[02:47] <ScottK> Personally, it doesn't affect me, but IIRC (and often I don't) it build on ia64 before.
[02:47] <Kmos> Hobbsee: ok
[02:47] <ScottK> He ought to at least look into it.
[02:47] <Hobbsee> he probably got mail for it, too
[02:48] <ScottK> Probably, but I didn't recall for sure.
[02:48] <ScottK> I gotta run (as in be elsewhere).
[02:49] <Hobbsee> dear firefox, please stop crashing on me, kthxbye.
[02:51] <joejaxx> gnomefreak: ?
[02:51] <gnomefreak> joejaxx: im working on it. ardour is screwed up and ubuntustudio-* depends on it
[02:51] <gnomefreak> but source is in repos binaries are not
[02:52] <_MMA_> gnomefreak: Are you working on the scons issue atm?
[02:52] <TheMuso> gnomefreak: What are you doing exactly?
[02:52] <gnomefreak> _MMA_: looking at it
[02:52] <_MMA_> ahh..
[02:52] <TheMuso> gnomefreak: ummm... THats not too hard to do.
[02:53] <gnomefreak> Automatic build of ardour_2.0.3-1 on vernadsky by sbuild/i386 1.170.5
[02:53] <gnomefreak> apt-get souce gives me same version
[02:53] <gnomefreak> but binaries are nowhere to be found
[02:53] <Fujitsu> gnomefreak: It FTBFS, repeatedly.
[02:53] <gnomefreak> Fujitsu: source was still let through?
[02:54] <TheMuso> Of course.
[02:54] <Fujitsu> ... there's no build check on source NEW...
[02:54] <gnomefreak> hmmmmm
[02:54] <gnomefreak> ok lets see what happens
[02:54] <Fujitsu> Or, not in buildd conditions.
[02:54] <Fujitsu> The source is let through before it hits the buildds
[02:54] <TheMuso> gnomefreak: Note that it will build fine locally.
[02:55] <gnomefreak> TheMuso: binaries as well?
[02:55] <TheMuso> gnomefreak: Yes.
[02:56] <siretart> how do we call 'MOTU hopefuls' nowadays?
[02:56] <Hobbsee> siretart: i think we call them that.  no idea
[02:56] <coNP> siretart: xxxxx1, coNP  :)
[02:57] <zul> siretart: freshmeat?
[02:57] <siretart> zul: I never heared this term before in that context. are you serious?
[02:57] <Hobbsee> zul: :D
[02:57] <Hobbsee> siretart: he'd better not be...
[02:57] <zul> siretart: of course not, i dont have my serious face on
[02:58] <siretart> :)
[02:58] <Hobbsee> remidns me of one of our fridge magnets.  "send us more tourists - the last ones were delicious!)
[02:58] <Hobbsee> s/)/"/
[02:58] <xxxxx1> morning siretart!
[02:58] <siretart> hey xxxxx1
[02:59] <coNP> Some MOTU reviewer/admin please archive my uploads (aron@ubuntu.hu). Thanks in advance.
[03:02] <TheMuso> geser: How have things progressed re scons and FTBFS for ardour et al?
[03:02] <TheMuso> geser: afaik you and persia were looking into it.
[03:05] <Hobbsee> coNP: you really need a webhost somewhere or something
[03:05] <Hobbsee> coNP: all gone
[03:06] <coNP> Hobbsee: I don't want to abuse REVU. If you tell me I'll upload my packages somewhere else.
[03:06] <coNP> And thank you :)
[03:06] <Hobbsee> coNP: they're just getting looked at and uploaded straight away, arnet they?
[03:07] <coNP> Yes, they are. Actually dholbach uses REVU and archives them, whereas seb128 not.
[03:07] <coNP> I (personally) can use another server if needed. And Desktop Team plans to use bzr soon
[03:07] <Hobbsee> coNP: do you have a webhost or something, that you can ssh into, copy them, and then delete them in one hit?
[03:07] <gnomefreak> oh this looks like fun
[03:08] <coNP> Sure. Some uni servers :)
[03:08] <Hobbsee> coNP: as in, i'ts quicker to remove all of them in one hit :)
[03:08] <Hobbsee> coNP: ahhh
[03:08] <Hobbsee> coNP: migth be worth trying
[03:08] <Kmos> coNP: you can't use PPA for that?
[03:08] <Hobbsee> Kmos: the packages cant really be removed.
[03:08] <TheMuso> Kmos: You can't remove packages from ppa yet
[03:08] <Hobbsee> Kmos: and DOS issues
[03:08] <gnomefreak> someone got a minute?
[03:08] <Hobbsee> gnomefreak: no :P
[03:08] <Hobbsee> !someone | gnomefreak
[03:08] <ubotu> gnomefreak: A large amount of the first questions asked in this channel start with "Does anyone/anybody..."  Why not ask your next question (the real one) and find out?
[03:08] <gnomefreak> i found the file and the line in file that fails
[03:08] <Kmos> that's a problem.. can't remove yet
[03:08] <gnomefreak> :P
[03:08] <Kmos> :)
[03:09] <TheMuso> gnomefreak: With sconz?
[03:09] <gnomefreak> yes
[03:09] <TheMuso> Right.
[03:09] <coNP> Hobbsee: I'll use another host for Desktop Team packages for now on. So long, and thanks for all the fish...
[03:10] <Hobbsee> coNP: cool :)
[03:15] <TheMuso> So how big is the change needed to get things working. Will it affect other packages that build fine?
[03:21] <Kmos> Hobbsee: bug 130160 , you don't changed U-U-S to U-A in subscribers, that's normal ?
[03:21] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 130160 in gambas "Please sync gambas (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Triaged]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/130160
[03:22] <TheMuso> Hobbsee: Thanks for the ardour sync request. I intended to getting around to it at some point.
[03:26] <TheMuso> Night folks.
[03:26] <xxxxx1> TheMuso, night :)
[03:33] <RainCT> hi
[03:39] <geser> TheMuso: the problem ardour/scons is fixed, now ardour has a problem with gtkmm
[03:40] <geser> I also checked already the last version in Debian unstable but still the same problem
[03:41] <Hobbsee> Kmos: read bug.  think.
[03:42] <geser> Hobbsee: you got ardour 1:2.0.4-1 to build in gutsy?
[03:42] <Hobbsee> geser: nope
[03:43] <Hobbsee> Kmos: oh wait, ignore me.  i forgot, thought i did
[03:44] <Hobbsee> Kmos: fixed
[03:45] <geser> Hobbsee: then why sync it? you yelled at me once (long ago, before I become a motu) because I didn't state clearly in the sync request that it build on Ubuntu
[03:45] <geser> has this changed in between?
[03:46] <Hobbsee> geser: a) i was being lazy, and b)  the current version definetly doesnt build.  this one *may* build.  and if not, it's a closer starting point to building, for someone to look into fixing it, which some people are already wanting to do
[03:46] <Hobbsee> geser: i was thinking that it definetly couldnt get any *worse*
[03:46] <Hobbsee> and that debian would have likely uploaded something that built.
[03:46] <geser> ok
[03:46] <Hobbsee> geser: i think i'm just getting sick of sync requests and such, lately.
[03:47] <geser> it builds for them but not for us
[03:47] <Hobbsee> yeah.  yay.
[03:47] <geser> Hobbsee: in two week the sync requests get less
[03:48] <geser> but the UVF exceptions will increase ;)
[03:48] <Hobbsee> geser: yeah, well.  and i hope for no mass sync request bombs.
[03:51] <Kmos> Hobbsee: nice
[03:53] <Kmos> Hobbsee: i won't do mass bombs of sync requests :)
[03:55] <sampo_v2> _MMA_: anything to help you package ardour :)
[03:55] <_MMA_> Hey guys. sampo_v2 here is on the Ardour dev team. geser: He might be able to help with the gtkmm issue.
[03:56] <RainCT> keescook: I've a suggerence for what-patch. http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/32373/ see lines 6-14
[03:56] <sampo_v2> *might* .. ;)
[03:56] <gnomefreak> sampo_v2: working on it atm
[03:56] <sampo_v2> do you have a link for the compile error?
[03:56] <gnomefreak> yes
[03:56] <gnomefreak> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/8560865/buildlog_ubuntu-gutsy-i386.ardour_1%3A2.0.3-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[03:56] <gnomefreak> sampo_v2: ^^
[03:59] <gnomefreak> make: *** [debian/stamp-scons-build]  Error 2  tells me scons isnt fixed
[04:00] <sampo_v2> that's a change from gtk 2.10 to 2.11
[04:02] <Hobbsee> Kmos: great :)
[04:03] <Hobbsee> Kmos: iw as more thinking anyone who tried, actually
[04:03] <Kmos> Hobbsee: hehe
[04:03] <sampo_v2> gnomefreak: sorry, 2.11 is flagged by gtk as an unstable, non-production release and we do not support it yet
[04:04] <gnomefreak> seeing sa thats the only error i have seen on this we can try to build on 2.10 unless someone has a newer error?
[04:04] <gnomefreak> s/sa/as
[04:05] <sampo_v2> gnomefreak: do you mean build against 2.10 but use with gtk 2.11?
[04:06] <gnomefreak> sampo_v2: if gtk 2.11 is unstable and not supported upstream than either we cant use it or we make huge/alot of patches or we build on 2.10 across the boards
[04:06] <sampo_v2> gnomefreak: i'd suggest going with 2.10 on everything
[04:06] <gnomefreak> that is the sanest way
[04:08] <sampo_v2> i agree
[04:09] <gnomefreak> only problem is we are gonna have to have both in archives in gutsy or we downgrade to 2.10, 2.10 isnt in cache any longer
[04:10] <sampo_v2> ?
[04:10] <gnomefreak> we dont have 2.10 in the repos anymore
[04:10] <gnomefreak> in gutsy
[04:10] <sampo_v2> gnomefreak: i guess that is, "everything in development / unstable gnome" depends on 2.11?
[04:11] <gnomefreak> sampo_v2: yep afaict
[04:11] <sampo_v2> gnomefreak: i don't think basing gutsy on a development / unstable version of both gtk and gnome is a very good idea
[04:12] <sampo_v2> gnomefreak: :)
[04:12] <gnomefreak> gutsy releases with gnome (give or take)
[04:13] <gnomefreak> so what gnome decides i think we go with (but not sure on who decides that)
[04:13] <geser> sampo_v2: the final gutsy will have the final gnome 2.20 and gtk
[04:13] <sampo_v2> geser: ok
[04:13] <geser> it's only done to test what is broken so it can get fixed before the release
[04:13] <gnomefreak> still a problem if sampo_v2/upstream doesnt make it usable for 2.11
[04:14] <gnomefreak> is ardour really needed as a depend on ubuntustudio....
[04:15] <sampo_v2> gnomefreak: we will eventually support newer gtk
[04:15] <geser> I don't have experience the the API changes during gnome/gtk development: to they change that much?
[04:15] <gnomefreak> sampo_v2: well thats why im asking if we can drop ardour as a depend that will fix one issue people are seeing
[04:15] <sampo_v2> geser: not much
[04:16] <gnomefreak> and add it back once newer gtk supported
[04:16] <sampo_v2> gnomefreak: what is the schedule for gutsy?
[04:16] <geser> !gutsy
[04:16] <ubotu> Gutsy Gibbon is the code name for the next release of Ubuntu (7.10). See https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2007-April/000276.html and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GutsyReleaseSchedule - Roadmap and specifications: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy - Support in #ubuntu+1
[04:16] <gnomefreak> oct release
[04:16] <geser> August 16th is UpstreamVersionFreeze
[04:16] <gnomefreak> we should be getting close to RC time (maybe a month or so)
[04:17] <_MMA_> gnomefreak: Without Ardour Ubuntu Studio is nothing.
[04:17] <gnomefreak> _MMA_: figured as much, why would it be easy
[04:18] <sampo_v2> gnomefreak: hey, no pressure or anything ;)
[04:18] <geser> after UVF an exception needs to granted to get a fixed upstream version in or backport the fixes to ardour 2.0.4
[04:18] <gnomefreak> sampo_v2: :)
[04:18] <_MMA_> :)
[04:18] <Fujitsu> A UVFe will be trivial if it FTBFS now.
[04:18] <_MMA_> gnomefreak: Our only other choice it to have Luke (TheMuso) build it locally and host it in our own repo again.
[04:19] <_MMA_> Which would be unfortunate as we really want everything in Ubuntu.
[04:19] <gnomefreak> that still doesnt help the packages in ubuntu that need it
[04:19] <_MMA_> Exactly.
[04:19] <sampo_v2> _MMA_: this change breaks the ABI on gtk, so building ardour on 2.10 and running it on 2.11 will not work
[04:21] <_MMA_> Ok. Some people have just mentioned building it successfully locally. Dont really know if it woulda worked. :)
[04:21] <gnomefreak> we cant do much of  anything but hope they can have it done by the 16th (thats a bit soon im thinking) or we try for a exception but still doesnt solve immedate issues
[04:21] <geser> sampo_v2: would it be much wasted work if you managed to provide a patch to get it build with gtk 2.11?
[04:22] <sampo_v2> geser: can you provide me ssh access to a box with 2.11 and a working development environment? (i.e. one can run scons in there to build ardour)
[04:23] <geser> unfortunately not, sorry
[04:23] <geser> sampo_v2: are you using Ubuntu? what about a gutsy pbuilder?
[04:24] <sampo_v2> geser: what's a pbuilder? (i am on feisty)
[04:24] <gnomefreak> lol
[04:24] <_MMA_> ;)
[04:24] <gnomefreak> !pbuilder
[04:24] <ubotu> pbuilder is a system to easily build packages in a clean chroot environment. To get started with PBuilder, see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
[04:24] <gnomefreak> :)
[04:25] <geser> sampo_v2: simplified is pbuilder a script around chroot
[04:25] <geser> of course a gutsy chroot will also work :)
[04:25] <StevenK> I should get around to setting up an i386 schroot.
[04:26] <sampo_v2> geser: before i start doing anything like that, could you pastebin the /usr/include/gtk-2.0/gtk/gtktoolbar.h from 2.11 ?
[04:26] <geser> sure, I moment
[04:32] <geser> sampo_v2: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/32378/
[04:32] <sampo_v2> i have a suggestion
[04:33] <sampo_v2> undefine GTK_DISABLE_DEPRECATED from gtk
[04:33] <sampo_v2> (and rebuild the lot)
[04:42] <geser> where is the best place to put it in?
[04:43] <sampo_v2> geser: gtk probably has a configure option for it
[04:44] <geser> I doubt rebuilding gtk is an option
[04:45] <geser> does adding -UGTK_DISABLE_DEPRECATED to the CFLAGS work?
[04:45] <sampo_v2> geser: for ardour, no way
[04:45] <geser> hmm
[04:45] <sampo_v2> geser: gtk is compiled without those symbols
[04:46] <geser> ok, will talk to our desktop-team (responsible for gnome/gtk)
[04:46] <sampo_v2> geser: you might ask them if compiling ardour with that flag would work
[04:46] <sampo_v2> geser: i doubt it
[04:46] <sampo_v2> geser: because that might (and probably does) affect the ABI of gtk
[04:47] <geser> I guess you are right
[04:47] <sampo_v2> geser: but, i just looked over our sources
[04:47] <sampo_v2> geser: and it seems we don't use the toolbar for anything
[04:47] <sampo_v2> geser: so you could try a dirty quick fix
[04:50] <sampo_v2> geser: http://rafb.net/p/bECbov71.html
[04:51] <sampo_v2> geser: there is no guarantee that will work
[04:52] <geser> sampo_v2: I've talk with seb128 in #ubuntu-desktop about it
[04:52] <sampo_v2> geser: the flag i'm proposing would probably make transition for other apps easier as well
[04:52] <geser> and he says using -UGTK_DISABLE_DEPRECATED should work
[04:52] <LucidFox> so, only completely new packages go to NEW, and new versions of existing packages bypass it?
[04:53] <geser> sampo_v2: according to seb128 gtk 2.x will stay API and ABI stable, they only deprecate parts
[04:55] <sampo_v2> geser: ok. give that a go then
[04:56] <LucidFox> can Ubuntu sync from debian-multimedia.org?
[04:57] <siretart> LucidFox: sure
[05:01] <geser> sampo_v2: what about delete line 33 in libs/gtkmm2/gtk/gtkmm/toolbar.cc ?
[05:02] <geser> seb128 pointed me to it and the comment above it
[05:03] <sampo_v2> geser: heh, good idea :)
[05:03] <sampo_v2> geser: try that before my dirty patch
[05:04] <geser> building with that change in a pbuilder right now
[05:05] <sampo_v2> great
[05:15] <lamont> anybody want some bashism-in-rules cruft?
[05:15] <lamont>        52 Log for failed build of bwm_1.1.0-8.1 (dist=gutsy-stage0)
[05:15] <lamont>       574 Log for failed build of cjk_4.7.0+git20070504-5 (dist=gutsy-stage0)
[05:15] <lamont>       131 Log for failed build of freesweep_0.88-4.2 (dist=gutsy-stage0)
[05:15] <lamont>       114 Log for failed build of libonig_5.5.2-1 (dist=gutsy-stage0)
[05:15] <lamont>       509 Log for failed build of libranlip_1.0-4 (dist=gutsy-stage0)
[05:15] <lamont>       248 Log for failed build of lxdoom_1.4.4main-0.1ubuntu1 (dist=gutsy-stage0)
[05:15] <lamont>       276 Log for failed build of stk_4.2.0-9build1 (dist=gutsy-stage0)
[05:15] <lamont>       255 Log for failed build of xevil_2.02r2-7 (dist=gutsy-stage0)
[05:15] <lamont>       130 Log for failed build of yiyantang_0.7.0-3 (dist=gutsy-stage0)
[05:16] <LucidFox> gutsy-stage0?
[05:16] <geser> what's the first number?
[05:16] <LucidFox> by the way, what's build score?
[05:17] <lamont> iz from mutt... first number is lines in the file..
[05:17] <lamont> gutsy-stage0 == hppa bootstrapping
[05:18] <lamont> these bugs should be global though - quite possible that the package is unchanged in gutsy (vs feisty)
[05:18] <lamont> those are all universe packages
[05:26] <geser> sampo_v2: it build with that change (removing that line)
[05:26] <sampo_v2> geser: great
[05:27] <geser> Hobbsee: I've a fix to get ardour build in Ubuntu. Should I upload the last version from Debian with that fix and close your sync request?
[05:28] <Hobbsee> geser: that'd be great, thanks
[05:29] <_MMA_> \o/ :)
[05:29] <_MMA_> Thanx a bunch geser and sampo_v2.
[05:29] <lamont> libpar2 shouldn't build-depend libstdc++6-dev (iz build essential.  or rather, the correct version of libstdc++6-dev is...)
[05:30] <geser> don't forget seb128 from #ubuntu-desktop for pointing at  the responsible line
[05:31] <sampo_v2> yep. he understood the sensible fix :)
[05:33] <lamont> AndyP: depends on the failure...
[05:34] <AndyP> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/syck/0.55+svn256-1/+build/371628
[05:35] <lamont> ah, trivial.
[05:35] <lamont> token.re:533: warning: incompatible implicit declaration of built-in function 'malloc'
[05:35] <lamont> token.re:570: warning: implicit declaration of function 'realloc'
[05:35] <lamont> token.re:570: warning: cast to pointer from integer of different size
[05:35] <lamont> make all those go away
[05:35] <lamont> implicit definitions involving pointers are fatal (segv) on ia64, and occasionally on amd64/alpha
[05:35] <lamont> but _always_ fatal on ia64.
[05:35] <lamont> the others have to have a very busy VM system before they fall over dead.
[05:35] <AndyP> ah ok
[05:36] <lamont> (ia64 has 64-bit pointers, and the top 32 bits are _NEVER_ zero)
[05:37] <AndyP> lamont: thanks for the info
[05:37] <lamont> np
[05:37] <lamont> mind you, just because you get rid of all the implicit definitions, there is no guarantee that it'll build/work on ia64... :-(
[05:38] <geser> looks like a missing #include <stdlib.h>
[05:38] <lamont> and if it's a debian package, there's probably already a bug in the debian bts about it... dannf autofiles them.
[05:39] <AndyP> yeah there is, two bugs actually
[05:50] <lamont> dpkg: unknown option --print-gnu-build-architecture
[05:50] <lamont> bad snes9x
[06:48] <Kmos> how to build a *.dsc without pbuilder and it got all dependencies?
[06:52] <RainCT> Kmos: sudo apt-get build-dep <packagename> and inside the source folder dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot  ?
[06:52] <Kmos> RainCT: that's it
[06:52] <Kmos> thanks
[06:52] <RainCT> yw :)
[06:53] <Kmos> ups
[06:53] <Kmos> RainCT: if it's a debian package ?
[06:53] <Kmos> it should use the same dependencies
[06:54] <RainCT> uh.. look into debian control and apt-get them :P
[06:54] <Kmos> and it's only in gutsy :( should test on my laptop
[06:54] <Kmos> but it's strange to got an error on pbuilder
[06:54] <Kmos> when compiling
[06:54] <Kmos> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/stfl/0.8-2
[06:54] <Kmos> failed to build
[06:55] <Kmos> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/7567284/buildlog_ubuntu-gutsy-i386.stfl_0.8-2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[06:58] <RainCT> it seems like sh doesn't know +=
[06:59] <RainCT> CFLAGS+='-fPIC' /usr/bin/make FOUND_PERL5=0 FOUND_RUBY=0 FOUND_PYTHON=0 FOUND_SWIG=0 FOUND_SPL=0        /bin/sh: CFLAGS+=-fPIC: not found       make: *** [build-stamp]  Error 127
[07:00] <RainCT> tried CFLAGS+='-fPIC' in sh and it gave the same error. on bash it worked
[07:01] <sampo_v2> _MMA_: i'll leave you in peace. if you get further trouble, feel free to come on #ardour and ping us
[07:04] <RainCT> I created a grup 'pbuilder', added me to it, chowned /var/cache/pbuilder and subdirs to root:pbuilder and chmoded to r+rwx g+rwx u+rx, but I still can't write on /var/cache/pbuilder. Anyone can tell me what's missing?
[07:05] <Seveas> RainCT, did you logout+login after adding yourself to the pbuilder group?
[07:06] <RainCT> Seveas: ah, I've to re-login?
[07:06] <Seveas> to make it pick up the new group, yes
[07:06] <RainCT> no possible workaround? :(
[07:07] <RainCT> well, will leave it for later then. thanks
[07:12] <RainCT> siretart: REVU is powered by Python, or?
[07:16] <keyes_> hello
[07:17] <keyes_> i'm trying to create a package for my app using CDBS python package and i've this "amazing" error while running debuild :
[07:17] <keyes_> /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/python-distutils.mk:69: *** unsupported Python system: "pycentral" (select either pysupport or pycentral).
[07:18] <keyes_> here is my rules file : http://ubuntu-motu.pastebin.com/m751016f9
[07:18] <ScottK> Do you build depend on python-central?
[07:18] <keyes_> and here control : http://ubuntu-motu.pastebin.com/d78fcac06
[07:18] <keyes_> yes
[07:19] <keyes_> Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 5.0.38), python-central (>= 0.5.6), cdbs, kdelibs4-dev, libpythonize0-dev, pykdeextensions, pyqt-tools, python-kde3, python-sip4-dev, python-all-dev (>= 2.3.5-11), python-kde3-dev
[07:19] <LucidFox> how do I make a package translatable via Launchpad?
[07:20] <keyes_> LucidFox, put the POT file on your launchpad page I think
[07:22] <ScottK> keyes_: I'm looking at it.
[07:22] <keyes_> thanks
[07:23] <keyes_> LucidFox, https://translations.launchpad.net/
[07:26] <ScottK> keyes_: Try DEB_PYTHON_SYSTEM = pycentral without the quotes.
[07:27] <keyes_> ok
[07:27] <keyes_> fine it works :)
[07:27] <keyes_> Thanks you very much
[07:27] <ScottK> No problem.
[07:28] <ScottK> For future reference, https://perso.duckcorp.org/duck/cdbs-doc/cdbs-doc.xhtml is essentially all of the extant cdbs documentation.  Other than that you have to look at the source.
[07:39] <siretart> RainCT: yes, it is
[07:40] <keyes_> thanks
[07:41] <keyes_> and i've a new problem (of course) and don't find nothing about that in the doc
[07:41] <RainCT> siretart: then I can't help :P
[07:42] <keyes_> the source package if composed of subdirectories like this : foldercrypt (the command line tool), foldercrypt-gtk (the GTK ui), foldercrypt-kde (the KDE ui), ....
[07:42] <keyes_> each subdirectories contain it own setup.py file
[07:43] <keyes_> my mentor (google SoC) said that I must have only one source package generating some packages like foldercrypt-gtk.deb foldercrypt-kde.deb ...
[07:43] <keyes_> but CDBS is looking a setup.py file at the root folder, not into each subfolders
[07:44] <keyes_> if i change the file name (DEB_PYTHON_SETUP_CMD)
[07:44] <keyes_> it works only for one subfolder (like DEB_PYTHON_SETUP_CMD=foldercrypt-kde/setup.py)
[07:44] <keyes_> any idea ?
[07:45] <siretart> RainCT: why?
[07:45] <siretart> RainCT: I haven't seen a line of python before starting on revu either ;)
[07:48] <Seveas> siretart, getting something like revu cooked up in django that uses an apt-gettable repo (like PPA, or something buit with mini-dinstall/apt-ftparchive/falcon, or even just simple dsc file) shouldn't be too hard :)
[07:49] <Seveas> hardest part would be writing the actual html/css for the UI ;)
[07:50] <ScottK> keyes_: There is a way to deal with that.  I don't recall what it is.
[07:50] <keyes_> I think that it's easy without using CDBS
[07:51] <ScottK> Well there's no rule says you have to use CBDS.
[07:51] <Seveas> siretart, and apart from the authserver bit, it should even be possible to cook it up within a week (granted, I'd be cheating since I wrote a repo manager with django and would borrow a lot of its code)
[07:52] <keyes_> ScottK, ok :)
[07:52] <siretart> Seveas: feel free :)
[07:52] <Seveas> siretart, I'm tempted
[07:53] <RainCT> siretart: well, perhaps when I finish my current stuff... ;) but that will need some time
[07:54] <siretart> actually, I'm currently looking into the django documentation. it seems to have been greatly improved since the last time I looked at it
[07:54] <Seveas> both django and its docs have
[07:55] <Kmos> Can someone check this one - http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=6327 (fix stfl package that doesn't build)
[07:55] <Seveas> siretart, do you mind a PM?
[07:55] <Kmos> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/7567284/buildlog_ubuntu-gutsy-i386.stfl_0.8-2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[07:56] <RainCT> siretart: o.O have I send the ubuntu-dev-tools mail to you only?
[07:56] <siretart> RainCT: I think you did :)
[07:56] <siretart> Seveas: go ahead!
[07:57] <RainCT> oh, right
[08:05] <Kmos> Can someone check this one - http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=6327 (fix stfl package that doesn't build on ubuntu)
[08:05] <Kmos> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/7567284/buildlog_ubuntu-gutsy-i386.stfl_0.8-2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[08:05] <Kmos> bbl
[08:05] <ScottK> RainCT: I saw you mail.
[08:06] <ScottK> RainCT: Thanks for doing it.
[08:06] <ScottK> you/your
[08:06] <RainCT> no problem :)
[08:06] <norsetto> Kmos: there is no point in repeating, people have seen it marco
[08:07] <RainCT> it's good to improve my bash ;P
[08:09] <ScottK> RainCT: One of the script sets there that I find very useful are Laserjock's pbuilder-release scripts.  They could use just a bit of work if you want to have a look at making them a bit more generalized.
[08:10] <RainCT> ScottK:  ok, give me the url please
[08:11] <ScottK> RainCT: I don't know where to find them on LP.  I got them from http://revu.tauware.de/~laserjock/
[08:14] <RainCT> OpenDNS says it doesn't exist :/
[08:14] <ScottK> Odd.  I click on it and I get the page.
[08:16] <RainCT> now :)
[08:16] <ScottK> You got it?
[08:17] <RainCT> yes
[08:19] <RainCT> so what do you suggest about those?
[08:26] <ScottK> Well they are a bit rough (not sure ~/pbuilder is the best place to store stuff) and could use some documentation.
[08:26] <RainCT> (@ ScottK)
[08:26] <ScottK> They IME make setting up a pbuilder that includes Universe much easier.
[08:29] <LucidFox> all right, suppose I want to translate an Ubuntu package for which LP says "No translatable templates available"
[08:29] <LucidFox> where should I start?
[08:32] <RainCT> ScottK: what's about only one and call it as   pbuilder-(somewhat?) <distribution> <operation>  or is    pbuilder-<distro> <operation> like now better?
[08:33] <ScottK> Possibly.  I haven't thought it through in detail, but that's the sort of thing I was thinking of.
[08:40] <RainCT> ok, will have a look on it
[08:48] <AndyP> oh that's handy, debian uploaded a new syck version that fixes the FTBFS on ia64 about an hour ago
[08:52] <Seveas> RainCT, that's how I use my pbuidlers :)
[08:54] <Seveas> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/32396/ - http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/32397/
[08:54] <Seveas> and symlinks to it are called feisty-build.sh / feisty-seveas-build.sh etc.
[09:11] <RainCT> is it possible to undo a local bzr commit?
[09:11] <RainCT> ok found it :p
[09:14] <DarkSun88> Hi all
[09:15] <ScottK> AndyP: Feel free to ping me to ack the syck sync.
[09:22] <AndyP> ScottK: will do, thanks. just waiting for it to pop up in the debian archives first
[09:23] <ScottK> Sure.
[09:59] <LaserJock> afternoon MOTU Land
[10:00] <AndyP> hey LaserJock
[10:01] <LaserJock> siretart: you around?
[10:01] <LaserJock> hi AndyP :-)
[10:02] <siretart> LaserJock: somewhat, yes
[10:03] <LaserJock> siretart: sorry to make you sad :/
[10:03] <siretart> LaserJock: nah, you know how I meant it - I felt like writing provocative maills this week ;)
[10:04] <LaserJock> seems i do too ;-)
[10:04] <ScottK> Heya LaserJock.
[10:05] <LaserJock> ah, hi ScottK
[10:05] <LaserJock> I'd really like us to get something to move ahead on
[10:06] <ScottK> LaserJock: Did you see the mail I sent about your pbuilder-release scripts?
[10:06] <LaserJock> ScottK: yes, although I'm not entirely sure what to do, I just tweaked the pbuilder example script
[10:06] <siretart> did you guys see my response to that? ;)
[10:06] <LaserJock> yes
[10:07] <LaserJock> here's maybe what I would propose
[10:07] <LaserJock> we can do a wiki page of scripts that we have
[10:07] <LaserJock> and scripts we need
[10:07] <LaserJock> then we can decide what needs to go into devscripts
[10:07] <LaserJock> and what maybe is more appropriate in a ubuntu-dev-tools package
[10:08] <ScottK> LaserJock: Maybe put a license on them that's the same as the example scripts and mark them down C you and whoever owns the examples....
[10:08] <ScottK> LaserJock: Sounds reasonable.
[10:08] <LaserJock> ScottK: do you think just adding mine in to the pbuilder package would work?
[10:08] <ScottK> That's another option.
[10:09] <ScottK> It'd have to install them in a useful location I think.
[10:09] <LaserJock> I'm not sure if it's good to add in a bunch of Ubuntu stuff to existing Debian packages
[10:09] <LaserJock> that's why I liked having our own package
[10:09] <siretart> LaserJock: why not? It feels natural to me
[10:10] <ScottK> Well devscripts already has a signficant Ubuntu diff, so I don't see a problem there.
[10:10] <siretart> if debians takes it, great, if not, well, *shrug*
[10:10] <LaserJock> siretart: well, I just don't want to be a bother to Debian, and we have to maintain the diff
[10:10] <LaserJock> some stuff Debian has picked up well
[10:10] <LaserJock> like lintian stuff
[10:10] <siretart> LaserJock: we don't patch here, but only add additional scripts. that's easy to maintain
[10:11] <LaserJock> true
[10:11] <siretart> actually hanging stuff is whats hard
[10:11] <LaserJock> well, in any case, we can decide where stuff should go
[10:11] <ScottK> And in the case of your pbuilder scripts there is actually one that's useful to Debian in there.
[10:11] <LaserJock> but it'd be nice to make an inventory of what we have
[10:11] <LaserJock> and what we need
[10:12] <LaserJock> and then clean it up and document it
[10:12] <LaserJock> maybe I'm dumb, but I don't know what half the stuff in the ubuntu-dev-tools bzr branch does
[10:12] <ScottK> I agree.  I also think it'd be nice to start doing some stuff and not just navel gaze.
[10:12] <LaserJock> I do everything manually
[10:12] <ScottK> Except make a new pbuilder.
[10:13] <LaserJock> I can't even get requestsync to work
[10:13] <LaserJock> but I can totally see how this could be much better for MOTUs and MOTU hopefuls
[10:13] <siretart> perhaps we should maintain and envforce a policy, that every new script for ubuntu-dev-tools needs to have a prooper manpage before being merged to the main branch
[10:14] <siretart> oh, and actually writing manpages could be a good idea as well ;)
[10:14] <LaserJock> one of the things I've been thinking about for some time now, is that it's easier to enforce policy and formating via scripts than it is via wiki page
[10:14] <LaserJock> and I think it also helps be consistent because we can tweak the underlying policy by updating a script without it being a big deal
[10:15] <LaserJock> ScottK: I agree though that we just need to start doing something, rather than arguing over things that really don't matter much until we get somewhere
[10:16] <ScottK> Right.  That's why I'm kind of hyper focused on the pbuilder scripts.  They are WAY easier than the official Ubuntu How-To,
[10:16] <LaserJock> well, I thought so
[10:16] <LaserJock> I haven't touched a pbuilderrc in ages
[10:16] <ScottK> And if I haven't said it before, Thank you for putting them together.
[10:17] <LaserJock> ScottK: well, the debian one is basically what's shipped with pbuilder
[10:17] <LaserJock> it's just that nobody seems to know about it
[10:17] <ScottK> Most of the arguing though is strategic stuff.  And we do need some consensus on a basic direction before we get to far.
[10:18] <ScottK> Maybe while RainCT is looking at your scripts, he'll update the wiki too to make them more famous.
[10:18] <LaserJock> well, IMO, I think we can build community around these scripts and work our way up to the web apps
[10:19] <LaserJock> regardless of what basic direction we head I think we need to start out at the same point
[10:19] <LaserJock> figure out what we need and start coding
[10:19] <LaserJock> then when we have something then we can talk to Debian or move some stuff to LP, whatever
[10:19] <ScottK> Agreed.
[10:20] <LaserJock> but it's kinda pointless I guess at this stage
[10:20] <ScottK> I do think it'd be worthwhile to talk to Debian in the meantime and see if the revu code would be useful for the direction they are headed with mentors.  This has come up on the debian-mentors list.
[10:21] <LaserJock> yeah
[10:21] <LaserJock> perhaps they'd be interested in helping with REVU2, who knows
[10:21] <LaserJock> it's totally true that we have a very similar need
[10:22] <LaserJock> and use practically the same tools
[10:22] <ScottK> Yes.
[10:22] <LaserJock> so the idea is appealing to me
[10:22] <LaserJock> I just don't know how it would work out in practice
[10:23] <ScottK> Even if we run separate instances, working on maintenance and development toghether would still be a good thing.
[10:24] <LaserJock> mhm, like we do  (or should)  with packages
[10:24] <ScottK> Yes.
[10:24] <ScottK> Well I can tell you that for every package I've brought to Ubuntu, I've later gone to Debian with a Debian version and got it uploaded or I know someone else is already working on it.
[10:27] <desertc> Hello - intrepid package maintainers!  I come to query your package knowledge about Ekiga, the open source VoIP client.
[10:29] <desertc> How can I check what version is anticipated in Gutsy?  It seems Feisty is using 2.0.3 and the Ekiga developers feel this is a little ancient.  (s)he would like to see Ubuntu using a more recent version.
[10:29] <LaserJock> ok, I'm working on a wiki page right now. gimme a few minutes and I'll have you guys look at it
[10:31] <AndyP> desertc: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ekiga tells you the versions uploaded and their status
[10:32] <desertc> AndyP: thanks, I'll bookmark that
[10:32] <desertc> So, 2.0.9 will be in Gutsy, if I am reading this correctly.
[10:32] <ScottK> imbrandon: I really need that colo information.  One of my current providers is just sucking dead bunnies and about to cost me customers....
[10:33] <desertc> This seems to be in-line with what recommendations I am hearing from Ekiga maintainer.  Thank you!
[10:33] <AndyP> desertc: at least. it's in main though so a little off-topic for this channel
[10:37] <LaserJock> imbrandon!!!
[10:41] <LaserJock> ScottK, siretart, everybody: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevTools
[10:45] <Seveas> imbrandon, heya!
[10:46] <ScottK> Man.  I really wish I'd know about 404main when I was doing the pinentry MIR.
[10:47] <LaserJock> hence why we need to get these script in good shape and plastered all over everywhere ;-)
[10:47] <ScottK> Agreed.
[10:48] <LaserJock> I'd also like to see lucas's mdt in there somewhere too
[10:48] <Seveas> imbrandon, I need you as sponsor pretty soon
[10:48] <Seveas> \o/
[10:52] <LaserJock> anybody know how I should go about licensing my pbuilder script thing?
[10:52] <LaserJock> the original has nothing, but it's in pbuilder so I'm assuming it's GPL
[11:01] <ScottK> I'd say it's whatever pbuilder is.
[11:12] <jrib> does anyone know if the source code for revu available somewhere?
[11:13] <ScottK> Yes, It's on Launchpad in a bzr branch somewhere.
[11:13] <LaserJock> https://code.launchpad.net/revu/
[11:14] <jrib> ScottK, LaserJock: thanks
[11:19] <Kmos> Can someone look at this one - http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=6327 (it fix the build of the package)
[11:31] <ryanakca> How do you enable patch support in a debhelper rules?
[11:31] <ScottK> Depends on the patch system.
[11:31] <ryanakca> umm.
[11:31] <ScottK> Don't do that.
[11:31] <man-di> ryanakca: because its hard to use
[11:31] <chuy> hi
[11:31] <ryanakca> quilt or dpatch?
[11:31] <ScottK> Is it a CBDS package.
[11:31] <ryanakca> No
[11:31] <ScottK> simple.ml
[11:32] <ScottK> Oh.
[11:32] <man-di> ryanakca: you need to read its source code to understand it
[11:32] <ScottK> Then probabyl dpatch.
[11:32] <chuy> partimage is not working properly, what should I do?
[11:32] <ryanakca> debhelper, otherwise I'd use cdbs-edit-patch
[11:32] <ScottK> chuy: Help is in #ubuntu.
[11:32] <chuy> ScottK, yeah but it is a bug, so I need no help
[11:32] <ryanakca> man-di: nah, you just look at https://perso.duckcorp.org/duck/cdbs-doc/cdbs-doc.xhtml ... very simple
[11:33] <ScottK> Then file a bug.
[11:33] <chuy> ok
[11:33] <ScottK> ryanakca: For the stuff that's there, yes.
[11:33] <ScottK> ryanakca: There are a lot of other knobs that you only find in the source.
[11:33] <ryanakca> Ah
[11:33] <ScottK> CDBS works very well for the use cases that were considered in it's design.
[11:34] <ScottK> Wonder off the reservation a bit and it gets hard because it's pretty opaque.
[11:34] <ScottK> Wonder/Wander
[11:35] <ryanakca> So, how do I use dpatch? I'm looking at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/PatchingSources , but, make: *** No rule to make target `unpatch'.  Stop.
[11:35] <asisak> ryanakca: what do you want to do
[11:35] <ScottK> The best thing to do is find a package already using it and crib.
[11:36] <ScottK> plagairism is the sincerest form of flattery after all.
[11:37] <man-di> ryanakca: https://perso.duckcorp.org/duck/cdbs-doc/cdbs-doc.xhtml
[11:37] <man-di> ryanakca: it paints a wrong picture of CDBS
[11:37] <man-di> ryanakca: it makes it look easy but there are too many traps in it
[11:42] <ScottK> As with many black box systems, CDBS is either simple or impossible and sometimes it's not easy to tell which situation you're in.
[11:43] <Seveas> ScottK, indeed
[11:43] <man-di> ScottK: yeah
[11:43] <man-di> ScottK: I use CDBS in a lot of packages
[11:43] <Seveas> if you don't need things that are hard to do with CDBS, CDBS is nice
[11:43] <man-di> ScottK: but for some packages its near to impossible to use it
[11:43] <ScottK> Defnitely.
[11:43] <Seveas> ryanakca, use quilt instead of dpatch :)
[11:45] <AndyP> ScottK: syck sync is now bug #130230
[11:45] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 130230 in syck "Please sync syck (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/130230
[11:46] <ScottK> AndyP: Did you build it?
[11:46] <AndyP> ScottK: yep, and checked the debian build logs
[11:46] <Seveas> speaking of building: allow me to spam http://blogs.ubuntu-nl.org/dennis/2007/08/03/package-build-coordination/
[11:47] <ScottK> AndyP: You need to include the full debian/changelog entries, not just the little experpt that you have.
[11:48] <Seveas> it might be useful to MOTU who need to test on multiple archtectures :)
[11:48] <LaserJock> Seveas: wow, neat
[11:48] <AndyP> ScottK: that's it apart from the signature (i was lazy and copied from the changes
[11:48] <AndyP> )
[11:48] <Seveas> LaserJock, neat is the word indeed
[11:48] <ScottK> But that's not clear to anyone else and so you leave them wondering.
[11:48] <Seveas> but it'll be uberneat ;)
[11:50] <Seveas> what's the deadline for NEW packages in universe?
[11:51] <Seveas> imbrandon wants to sponsor falcon and get it in there
[11:51] <AndyP> ScottK: done
[11:52] <justinwray> ScottK, I noticed you were a member of the Maryland Loco, are you still in Maryland?
[11:53] <ScottK> I am.
[11:53] <justinwray> Small world, Baltimore, born and raised
[11:53] <LaserJock> Seveas: August 30th
[11:53] <justinwray> Why did you leave the LoCo?
[11:54] <ryanakca> Seveas: ok, thanks
[11:54] <ScottK> It didn't seem that active and always meets on Thursday nights.  I have another standing commitment on Thursdays, so there was no way I could ever make it to a meeting.
[11:54] <Seveas> LaserJock, then I must hurry :)
[11:55] <justinwray> Gotcha, what part of MD are you from?
[11:55] <ScottK> That and it had joined a Launchpad team that didn't interest me at all (I don't recall which) and I felt like it mis-stated my interest.
[11:55] <Jazzva> Do I need to provide copyright info in debian/copyright for the package configuration files?
[11:55] <ScottK> I'm in Ellicott City.  I move here from Bowie last year.
[11:55] <ScottK> Jazzva: It's not required, but it's encouraged.
[11:56] <Jazzva> ScottK: Thanks...
[11:56] <justinwray> Ah, okay.  A large group of people at work are in Bowie.
[11:56] <ScottK> Are you still in Baltimore then?
[11:57] <justinwray> Yes sir, I really live in Balto Co (Southern), but yes.
[11:58] <ScottK> Ah.
[12:00] <norsetto> justinwray: can I have a word with you?
[12:00] <ryanakca> Seveas: ok, so, for quilt I just need to make the patch and then add 'quilt' to build-dep?
[12:00] <justinwray> norsetto, Yes sir.
[12:01] <Seveas> ryanakca, no, you shour read the quilt docs in /usr/share/doc/quilt/ -- it's not hard
[12:01] <Seveas> but quilt is really nice
[12:02] <_MMA_> ScottK: Bowie MD?
[12:03] <_MMA_> Oh I see now. I grew up in Upper Marlboro.
[12:04] <ScottK> Yes.
[12:04] <ScottK> Where are you now?
[12:04] <_MMA_> I moved Raleigh NC. 10 mins from RedHat HQ. :)
[12:05] <_MMA_> Home prices became too much in Md.
[12:06] <_MMA_> I made 100k is 2 years on a townhome then moved down here.
[12:06] <_MMA_> s/is/in
[12:07] <justinwray> Land in this area, anywhere from here to Washington, let alone PA, is absurd.
[12:07] <_MMA_> +1
[12:07] <_MMA_> N.C. is awesome though.
[12:07] <sacater> hey guys, sorry to bother asking this, but what is my total karma say on launchpad (http://launchpad.net/~sacater/+karma)
[12:07] <sacater> i think i may have found a glitch in the karma system
[12:08] <norsetto> Its too much in any case Sam .....
[12:08] <sacater> lol
[12:08] <sacater> naw
[12:08] <sacater> i had 11000 when questions was brought around
[12:08] <sacater> but ive been watching it for 3 days and it hasnt budged
[12:08] <sacater> up or down
[12:09] <ScottK> sacater: It's really more of a #launchpad question than a MOTU question.
[12:10] <sacater> spose
[12:10] <sacater> however irssi has kjammed and this is the only channel i can talk on atm
[12:10] <sacater> anyway gtg nowe


[04:23] <bobweaver> HAHA 18 over 30 I will take those odds
[05:24] <bobweaver> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cShYbLkhBc
[05:25] <bobweaver> we all need control
[05:27] <bobweaver> :)
[06:12] <bobweaver> er I guess I real feel like orange rinda and ruber bands
[06:12] <bobweaver> I mean spoted stripers
[06:12] <bobweaver> but he looks like dave
[06:13] <bobweaver> http://gamehendge.org/files/The_Man_Who_Stepped_Into_Yesterday.mp3
[07:28] <bobweaver> tgm4883  I dont know if I  can do this much more (it is driving me to miss daisy) I mean crazy
[07:28] <bobweaver> I am in tears and there is nothing that I can do abput it
[07:29] <bobweaver> I am learning this stuff but it is not for me
[07:30] <bobweaver> Like I think that I am experincing a breakdown because of all this
[07:31] <bobweaver> I guess I will "buck" up to plate But TBH I am not happy well doing this
[07:31] <bobweaver> in fact
[07:31] <bobweaver> I am in tears
[07:32] <bobweaver> they runied everything with drop of QT
[07:33] <bobweaver> we are only ones know beacuse of it
[07:35] <bobweaver> its funny when you think of I my g-friend wated Ubuntu tv be fore eme and asked me about it now ......
[07:36] <bobweaver> canonical has droped this and are expecting us to do for free
[07:38] <bobweaver> I am going loopie over project and have to much at stake
[07:38] <bobweaver> no more for me I day no  more for at leasr 2 months
[07:39] <bobweaver> I am in tears and going insane because of it
[07:43] <bobweaver> I M letting it drive me unstead of me driviing any thing
[07:43] <bobweaver> I am worthless


[07:42] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[07:42] <bigcalm> Dave2: you wanted a reminder
[07:51] <AlanBell> morning
[07:53] <popey> https://twitter.com/FarnhamBeerex looks like it's been hacked/compromised
[07:53] <kvarley> Where are the stock icons stored that notify-send uses?
[07:55] <popey> dpkg -L notify-osd
[07:55] <popey>  /usr/share/notify-osd/icons/hicolor/scalable/status/notification-power.svg
[07:55] <popey> for example
[07:55] <kvarley> Thanks popey :)
[08:00] <AlanBell> popey: yeah, it was sending me DMs
[08:00] <kvarley> Am I right in thinking that RSync can't do date time stamped destination folders?
[08:12] <popey> kvarley: why?
[08:13] <kvarley> popey: I expected a flag for doing date but I've just made a bash script and got the date via the date command. Doing backups to an external hard drive, need each one to have the date on
[08:14] <popey> you could use rsnapshot or rdiff-backup which does this for you
[08:15] <popey> and will save space
[08:15] <popey> by only backing up what's changed
[08:16] <kvarley> popey: I've setup rsync to do checksum checks, is that enough or should I switch to either of the tools you recommended?
[08:18] <popey> well I dont know what your goal is or what you've done with rsync
[08:18] <popey> but for regular backups those two tools kinda beat stock rsync
[08:20] <kvarley> Basically it's to backup my parents home folders. So it will probably be run daily via cron. Would something like owncloud be better? They do a lot of work in LibreOffice and have family pictures on there - that's about it aside from email which is on the server anyway.
[08:21] <JamesTait> Happy World Autism Awareness Day, folks! :-D
[08:23] <popey> for my mum I use the standard backup tool in ubuntu - deja-dup
[08:28] <SuperMatt> urgh, I have the kernal install problem again. Anyone able to remind me of the fix?
[08:29] <popey> you shouldn't have
[08:29] <popey> same machine?
[08:29] <SuperMatt> different
[08:29] <popey> kill it and then "sudo dpkg --configure -a" then "sudo apt-get -f install" and "sudo apt-get --fix-policy"
[08:29] <popey> and "sudo apt-get dist-upgrade" to be sure
[08:30] <SuperMatt> thanks
[08:37] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[08:41] <kvarley> brobostigon: \0
[08:42] <brobostigon> kvarley: o/
[08:44] <MartijnVdS> popey: fix-policy doesn't exist?
[08:45] <SuperMatt> oh... it's gone stuck again on the dist-upgrade
[08:45] <popey> sorry, install --fix-policy
[08:46] <SuperMatt> oh wait... it's not
[08:46] <SuperMatt> it's doing the headers now, just taking it's sweet time
[08:48] <knightwise> hey everyone
[08:48] <brobostigon> morning knightwise
[08:56] <popey> SuperMatt: all sorted?
[08:57] <knightwise> hmm.. rummaging around in Azure at the moment
[08:57] <knightwise> creatin databases and stuff.
[08:59] <MartijnVdS> Windows Azure?
[09:04] <SuperMatt> popey: looks like it, thanks
[09:05] <SuperMatt> *sigh* excluding all crons and nagios warnings, etc, I only have 21 emails
[09:05] <knightwise> MartijnVdS: correct
[09:06] <SuperMatt> and none of them require any action
[09:06] <SuperMatt> email needs to diaf
[09:07] <DJones> Are there any known issues with pidgin in 13.04? For some reason, mine doesn't update the timeline, it just shows the tweets from last time I connected using it which was 340 days ago (been using polly since then), tried removing and re-adding the account with no effect
[09:09] <AlanBell> my desktop background appears to have gone
[09:09] <AlanBell> been absent for a week or so, and isn't there in a guest session either
[09:10]  * popey wonders if AlanBell is missing packages
[09:19]  * AlanBell updates and does ubuntu-desktop^
[09:53] <BigRedS> pidgin does twitter?
[09:53] <brobostigon> thats new to me.
[10:00] <davmor2> Morning all
[10:01] <brobostigon> morning davmor2
[10:01] <davmor2> Everyone have a nice long weekend?
[10:03]  * BigRedS spent it at work
[10:04] <DJones> BigRedS: brobostigon Whoops, I meant Gwibber
[10:04] <brobostigon> DJones: :)
[10:05] <SuperMatt> BigRedS: you poor thing :(
[10:13] <davmor2> BigRedS: :) you mean at the coffee machine twiddling your thumbs desperately trying to stay awake right ;)
[10:18] <bigcalm> Morning davmor2
[10:19] <davmor2> bigcalm: How are you Mucka
[10:19] <bigcalm> davmor2: glad for a 4 day weekend. Didn't work myself to death either. You?
[10:20] <bigcalm> Not so glad about the 2 4 day weeks though
[10:22] <davmor2> bigcalm: mostly I just crashed out :)  Very nice relax.
[10:22] <BigRedS> davmor2: Haha, I watched a lot of TV :)
[10:23] <BigRedS> Having periods of time where you sit around waiting for stuff to break is good incentive to spend the rest of the time making things not arbitrarily break
[10:23] <SuperMatt> I spent 10 hours of my weekend playing bioshock infinite
[10:23] <SuperMatt> totally worth it
[10:25] <mungbean> is there a way to find out which argos stores have stock of an item? it just says 10 nearest stores dont have it, but doesn't say which ones do
[10:25] <DJones> mungbean: Don't think so, only trial and error with the stores
[10:25] <AlanBell> mungbean: sure it does :)
[10:26] <mungbean> seems like a complete fail. unavailable to reserve otherwise
[10:27] <popey> works here
[10:27] <AlanBell> click "check other stores"
[10:27] <AlanBell> you can do 2 at a time
[10:27] <popey> or scroll down
[10:28] <mungbean> Sorry, this item is currently out of stock in the 10 nearest stores
[10:29] <popey> put in a further away postcode?
[10:30] <mungbean> what if i have to do that for every postcode in england to discover the only store in stock is in aberdeen?
[10:31] <mungbean> shouldn't it allow me to say find stores with stock
[10:32] <AlanBell> mungbean: you don't want reserve and collect in that case
[10:32] <mungbean> home delivery is unavailable
[10:33] <AlanBell> it is probably a discontinued item
[10:33] <mungbean> but why are they selling the item if its out of stock everywhere?
[10:33] <mungbean> i found a website to search further afield
[10:34] <AlanBell> probably because they are based around the printed catalog
[10:34] <mungbean> i guess if its out of stock for delivery, then general availablity is low
[10:34] <AlanBell> so if it is in the current printed dead tree website then it is in the online website
[10:34] <mungbean> its something on good offer atm so maybe just all snapped up
[10:35] <popey> i would imagine thier backend would get a kicking if everyone was able to search stock in all stores
[10:35] <popey> ..and be accurate
[10:36] <mungbean> this is a handy site http://www.icheckstock.co.uk/Argos-Popular-Searches.aspx
[10:40] <AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/2320-real-ale-train/ get a ticket for a train instead
[10:40] <AlanBell> easy availability checking
[10:41] <popey> \o/
[10:42] <SuperMatt> http://divshot.github.com/geo-bootstrap/
[10:49] <AlanBell> classy
[10:50] <zleap> does anyone know the command arguments for graphics magic to place a small creative commons logo in the corner of an image
[10:51] <zleap> trying to work it out but having problems finding instructions for what i need
[10:52] <mgdm> zleap: http://www.imagemagick.org/Usage/annotating/#watermarking ?
[10:52] <zleap> ok
[10:52] <mgdm> GM shouldn't have diverged too far from IM
[10:52] <zleap> thanks
[10:52] <zleap> i can do it manually in gimp but want this for a large number of images
[10:57] <bigcalm> mgdm: have you considered the importance of attending http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/2320-real-ale-train/ ?
[10:59] <popey> http://www.thinkgeek.com/product/f487/?cpg=fbl_f487
[10:59] <mgdm> I have
[10:59] <popey> awesome 3d printer ☺
[10:59] <mgdm> the issue is that it's *miles* away
[11:00] <bigcalm> popey: that is cool!
[11:01] <bigcalm> mgdm: not quite as far as oggcamp was 2 years ago (close though)
[11:01] <davmor2> man kids have all the cool things
[11:01] <mgdm> wasn't that an april fool one
[11:01] <mgdm> ?
[11:01] <popey> yes
[11:01] <mgdm> bigcalm: that doesn't really help :-)
[11:02] <bigcalm> mgdm: poop
[11:02] <bigcalm> I'm travelling some distance to attend, but then I'm crazy like that
[11:02] <mgdm> heh
[11:03] <mgdm> I'd have to get to London first, then along there
[11:03] <mgdm> so I'll have a think, but I'm not hopeful, sadly :(
[11:06] <bigcalm> The thought counts, so thank you :)
[11:06] <davmor2> bigcalm: why did you add "like that" to your last line
[11:07] <bigcalm> davmor2: oh you are a card
[11:08] <bigcalm> s/are a /
[11:08] <davmor2> bigcalm: I've been called a lot of things in my life A card is the politest :D
[11:09] <bigcalm> davmor2: I'm a nice person really :)
[11:09] <davmor2> bigcalm: there is a difference between polite and nice :D
[11:10] <bigcalm> I can be both
[11:10] <bigcalm> Screw you guys, I'm getting lunch
[11:10] <davmor2> Ah there is the bigcalm I know :)
[11:11] <bigcalm> davmor2: joining us tomorrow night?
[11:11] <davmor2> bigcalm: I am
[11:11] <bigcalm> Grrrr
[11:11] <bigcalm> Why is Thunderbird only updating when I switch the workspace with it on
[11:12] <bigcalm> davmor2: didn't see your ml reply until just now by switching to thunderbird
[11:12] <bigcalm> Anyway, lunch
[11:14] <davmor2> bigcalm: save on power and bandwidth the same as firefox maybe
[11:46] <DJones> In a day and age where everything about everybody seems to be online, you wouldn't think it would be so hard to find somebody who's gone missing
[11:50] <davmor2> DJones: they can easily go offline
[11:52] <DJones> I think this is more a case that they disappeared before friends reunited, facebook etc appeared, possibly changed names, left the country and not had contact with anybody from their previous life
[12:32] <BigRedS> bigcalm: One of the reasons I stopped using tb was that it seemed to never update without being asked to
[12:32] <BigRedS> and *still* ran away with all my memory. I kept thinking I had no mail, then clicked on the inbox and suddenly had 30 messages
[12:32] <bigcalm> I just used whatever was the default mail client at the time
[12:33] <bigcalm> Happy to try another client that will cope with 5 IMAP accounts and give me calendars
[12:33] <BigRedS> I use Mutt and Google Calendar. Two extremes :)
[12:33] <bigcalm> :D
[12:33] <BigRedS> I couldn't find a GUI mail client that wasn't rubbish
[12:33] <bigcalm> I don't want a web client and I prefer using the GUI
[12:34] <DJones> What alternatives are there to thunderbird though, multi account capeable, still being actively developed etc
[12:34] <BigRedS> Evolution? Someone here uses that and it seems a lot better htan it was
[12:34] <BigRedS> which, admittedly, isn't hard
[12:34] <BigRedS> but nobody develops mail clients any more. It's all about webmail.
[12:34] <DJones> I though Evolution was the one that wasn't being actively developed
[12:34] <popey> BigRedS: i dont get that with tb, but I have every folder set to be subscribed, and the tickbox to check for mail in this folder
[12:35] <popey> and I have about 30 folders set as "favorite"
[12:35] <popey> and only view those
[12:35] <BigRedS> popey: yeah, I had that. I spent a long time experimenting it 'cause I really like Mozilla and didn't want to dislike any of their software
[12:35] <BigRedS> this was ~11.10 though. I've been told it's better now, but mutt/offlineimap/msmtp is serving me pretty well
[12:36] <BigRedS> especially since configuring my mail client is now just a git checkout away :)
[12:37]  * popey hugs mutt
[12:37] <DJones> I like the look of geary but I don't think its multi account capeable yet
[12:39] <popey> i think it does now
[12:41] <DJones> I'll have another look at it tonight
[12:42]  * penguin42 is a mutt user as well - albeit directly rather than via imap; I did remember finding it tricky to get imap connections to stay open
[12:43] <popey> i use mutt directly now too
[12:43] <popey> offlineimap as a cron job which syncs imap mail to my machine and back
[12:43] <penguin42> ah ok
[12:43] <shauno> yeah, mutt & maildir ftw
[12:43] <popey> which means mutt is super quick
[12:43] <penguin42> popey: It's nice being able to check my 10k entry spam folder in about 30 seconds
[12:44] <mgdm> I use Mutt occasionally, directly on my mail server
[12:45] <bigcalm> Silly VirginMedia outages :(
[12:45]  * penguin42 has to admit that it's not *that* easy to read mail from a touchscreen phone with an ssh to mutt, but it does work :-)
[12:46] <shauno> I just use my phone's native client via imap for that.  but that's for putting out fires in the inbox, not sitting down witha  glass and far too many MLs
[12:47] <bigcalm> popey: any news on a native email client for the touch os? Will it support multiple accounts?
[12:48] <popey> we're working on it
[12:49] <bigcalm> :)
[12:49] <popey> you're welcome to help ☺
[12:49] <mgdm> what's it built in?
[12:49] <popey> it isnt yet
[12:50] <penguin42> the tricky bit on a phone is getting the message density while still being able to navigate with big thick fingers
[12:50] <popey> we looked at trojita as a possible base
[12:51] <mgdm> I once experimented with tinymail for something like that
[12:51] <mgdm> though that just covers the IMAP part
[12:52] <popey> trojita doesn't do pop, needs a qml frontend made
[13:00] <bigcalm> geary looks nice, think it'll get multi-account support?
[13:03] <DJones> bigcalm: The website suggests its a known issue being worked on
[13:08] <bigcalm> DJones: ah, I couldn't see it from my quick glance. Is it an old ticket?
[13:11] <DJones> bigcalm: Looks like its already there http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/03/desktop-e-mail-app-geary-adds-multiple-accounts
[13:46] <kvarley> How can I mount my nexus 10 in ubuntu?
[13:46] <kvarley> In MTP mode it doesn't appear in nautilus, only if I switch to PTP mode does it work but that seems to be just for camera pictures
[13:47] <kvarley> Ah, feature confirmed for 13.04
[13:47] <popey> !info gmtp
[14:22] <bigcalm> !ping
[14:22] <bigcalm> !ding
[14:22] <bigcalm> !king
[14:22] <bigcalm> \o/
[14:23] <mgdm> !pong
[14:23] <bigcalm> !kong
[14:23]  * bigcalm looks at Dave2
[14:30]  * Dave2 looks at bigcalm
[14:31] <bigcalm> Choochoo
[14:31] <bigcalm> ?
[14:31] <Dave2> oh, yes
[14:31] <Dave2> I've just been looking at stuff for moar beer
[14:31] <Dave2> (Reading beer festival)
[14:31] <bigcalm> Handy link for you: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/2320-real-ale-train/
[14:33] <Dave2> thankse
[14:33] <davmor2> Dave2: Why would you want to Read a beer festival, surely the aim is to drink :)
[14:33] <Dave2> har har.
[14:38] <Dave2> bigcalm: booked
[14:39] <bigcalm> ooo, The page shows my mug shot in the comments now, yay
[14:39] <bigcalm> Dave2: yayb \o/
[14:39] <bigcalm> Dave2: yay beer \o/
[14:39] <bigcalm> Dave2: add yourself in the comments :)
[14:41] <Dave2> bigcalm: done
[14:41] <bigcalm> Hazar
[14:44] <bigcalm> That's 6 people so far. Wonder if we'll get more
[14:44] <bigcalm> Erm, 7 people
[14:46] <bigcalm> Where's that aquarius gone?
[14:47] <aquarius> am provisionally up for it, but not yet sure, hence no response :)
[14:47] <bigcalm> aquarius: good show :)
[14:47] <bigcalm> aquarius: I shall be grilling Adam Sweet at the LUG tomorrow night
[14:47] <bigcalm> (in case that's an incentive)
[14:54] <dogmatic69> I have a pc that is close to full (hdd). What are some good things to clean up on ubuntu?
[14:54] <bigcalm> dogmatic69: personal downloads, apt-cache
[14:54] <bigcalm> dogmatic69: log files
[14:55] <dogmatic69> I have cleared out /var/log before with not much difference
[14:55] <AlanBell> use baobab to find the stuff
[14:55] <dogmatic69> just looking at ~/ now and will try the apt-cache
[14:55] <dogmatic69> hmm. I will check that.
[14:56] <dogmatic69> AlanBell: I guess that lists big files?
[14:56] <AlanBell> it maps out directory sizes recursively
[14:56] <AlanBell> and shows you pretty pictures
[14:56] <bigcalm> dogmatic69: Disk Usage Analyser
[14:58] <dogmatic69> bah. and its a server. no gui
[15:02] <davmor2> dogmatic69: du -ha > file.size.txt
[15:03] <davmor2> dogmatic69: do that from where ever you want to analyse
[15:04] <davmor2> dogmatic69: it'll produce a huge file by the way and you'll get stuff like 1.2M	./Pictures/2008/05/07/hpim0733.jpg
[15:04] <dogmatic69> ye
[15:04] <dogmatic69> I see.
[15:09] <dogmatic69> davmor2: actuall baobab will work fine. I just run it from my pc like baobab /server-drive
[15:09] <davmor2> dogmatic69: oh well there you go then
[19:00] <andylockran> Anyone have recommendations on a home energy monitor ?
[19:01] <andylockran> reckon this looks good? http://www.edfenergy.com/products-services/for-your-home/ecomanager/
[19:03] <dogmatic69> andylockran: http://openenergymonitor.org/emon/
[19:07] <andylockran> dogmatic69: that looks like too much effort :p
[19:07] <dogmatic69> hehe
[19:18] <mungbean> andylockran: what do u want it to do
[19:19] <mungbean> i have a currentcost one i got for free
[19:22] <mungbean> gathers power and temperature readings and sends them to my low powered linux box, (think rasbpi type thing)
[19:56] <Seeker`> has anyone been skein hashing today?
[19:59] <mgdm> been what now?
[20:00] <mungbean> sounds a bit scottish
[20:00] <MartijnVdS> skein = password hashing thing, right/
[20:00] <MartijnVdS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skein_(hash_function)
[20:01] <mungbean> i been snipping rose bushes and mowing the lawn
[20:08] <Seeker`> MartijnVdS: yeah, related to yesterdays XKCD
[20:23] <zleap> hey tom
[20:32] <penguin42> popey: I remember you were measuring some house temperatures; were those air temperatures or on the heating system itself?
[20:34] <popey> general house temp
[20:38] <penguin42> popey: Thanks; I'm currently video recording the display on my boiler
[20:38] <popey> hows that working out?
[20:38] <AlanBell> sounds exciting
[20:39] <AlanBell> a youtube hit in the making
[20:39] <penguin42> popey: Well I'm trying to get to the bottom of why my shower sometimes runs cold and it's a bit difficult to tell - the boiler doesn't really have enough info
[20:39] <penguin42> AlanBell: Be careful, I  was thinking of uploading it
[20:40] <popey> after how long does it go cold?
[20:40] <popey> while you're in it I guess?
[20:40] <penguin42> popey: Yeh, and the problem is it's very very variable
[20:40] <penguin42> popey: Some nights it doesn't do it, some just at the end, some fairly early on (and that's when it pisses me off)
[20:41] <penguin42> http://www.treblig.org/daveG/boiler/  has videos
[20:41] <penguin42> popey: The boiler display only shows the heating system temp not the hot water temp, so it's difficult to follow what's really going on
[20:42] <popey> and there's no hot water from taps either?
[20:42] <penguin42> popey: on the one or two times I've managed to test that, no there isn't
[20:45]  * penguin42 suspects it might not do it tonight, it's a bit warmer
[20:56] <popey> enthralling video penguin42
[20:56] <penguin42> popey: I like to think as the director, and special effects expert I did the most to make it interesting
[20:58] <penguin42> popey: The bit I'd like to understand is about 9:50 or so into it, when it's starting to go cold and then the rest drops
[21:13] <bigcalm> popey: when was the last time you tried to ssh into a machine on your home network from an external source?
[21:15] <popey> uhm
[21:15] <popey> 3 seconds ago
[21:15] <bigcalm> Okay, so hopefully it's not a VirginMedia issue
[21:16] <bigcalm> I can't ssh into my home lan or even connect on port 80
[21:18] <popey> what happens if you nmap yourself from outside?
[21:18] <bigcalm> Running that right now
[21:19]  * bigcalm twiddles thumbs
[21:23] <bigcalm> It scanned 1000 ports and says they were all filtered
[21:23] <bigcalm> I haven't changed anything on my router recently, so I don't understand why it's stopped working now
[21:25] <popey> what is the router uptime?
[21:26] <bigcalm> 4h 20m 1s
[21:26] <bigcalm> Going to try rebooting the modem in a bit
[21:26] <popey> have you ssh'ed since then?
[21:26] <bigcalm> That shouldn't make a bit of difference :S
[21:26] <bigcalm> No
[21:26] <bigcalm> I've tried
[21:27] <bigcalm> Doesn't work for me
[21:28] <bigcalm> I've just added port forwarding to allow ssh to a workstation. That's timing out as well
[21:32] <bigcalm> What's the default IP address of the VM super hub?
[21:32] <bigcalm> 0.1
[21:32] <bigcalm> Ta
[21:39] <popey> wb
[21:39] <bigcalm_> That's interesting. The SuperHub had switched out of Modem Only Mode
[21:39] <popey> odd
[21:39] <bigcalm_> Thanks
[21:39] <popey> that explains it
[21:42] <bigcalm> I'm guessing that VM forced a modem update upon the hardware
[21:43] <bigcalm> Sod, IP address has changed now :)
[21:44] <bigcalm> That'll be why I cannie connect on the old IP address
[22:41] <bigcalm> That's Blue Shift finished
[22:43] <bigcalm> Now to start up Opposing Forces


[00:50] <stewart> hi! i have a "bzr pull --overwrite" (as part of jenkins build) that didn't, in fact, overwrite the tree.
[00:50] <stewart> instead the checkout failed :(
[00:50] <stewart> with can't delete and conflicts.
[00:51] <stewart> which then said "now on revision X"... but files appear to be missing
[00:57] <spiv> stewart: what does 'bzr status' report?  Does 'bzr revert' and or 'bzr clean-tree' help?
[00:58] <spiv> Also, I'm guessing the build products are in the same tree as the source?
[01:01] <stewart> spiv, yes, build products are there.
[01:01] <stewart> spiv, I get about every file under "removed"
[01:01] <stewart> spiv, and a bunch of renamed from foo to foo.OTHER
[01:01] <stewart> spiv, a usual set of "ignored" and a whole bunch of conflicts
[01:02] <stewart> spiv, befor etrying revert/clean-tree, any debugging info i can gather?
[01:02] <stewart> spiv, I've actually modified the jenkins bzr plugin so that on failure to check out it wipes the tree clean and tries again (solves the problem of bzr getting into unrecoverable state on killing it during checkout/pull)
[01:02] <stewart> spiv, and what's interesting here is that the bzr process completed "successfully"
[01:10] <spiv> stewart: it sounds like the usual "bzr produces a ton of conflicts when a tree update operation wants to delete a directory with unversioned files" bug
[01:13] <spiv> stewart: The config option mentioned in http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/beta/en/user-reference/conflict-types-help.html#deleting-parent will probably help
[01:18] <stewart> spiv, other thought... would "bzr branch --stacked" work for checking out for jenkins builds? our problem for lightweight checkouts was the huge network IO of pulling everything down for each build, would we get any less with --stacked ? and should/does this work with "bzr pull --overwrite" ?
[01:18] <spiv> It will probably help, and it should work fine.
[01:19] <spiv> (It will definitely help a fair bit if jelmer got around to finishing my patch to it…)
[01:20] <stewart> spiv, we run a variety of bzr versions around as we have everything from lucid to centos5
[01:20] <stewart> spiv, so it's a bit of an adventure :)
[01:20] <spiv> Ah, heh.
[01:20] <spiv> Well, maybe it won't work out, but give it a shot :)
[01:20] <stewart> spiv, we've had fairly bad experiences with shared repositories on jenkins hosts whenever more than 1 process tries to do something with them at any one time.
[01:20] <spiv> Yes, Twisted has had the same problem.
[01:21] <spiv> There is (was?) a bug with concurrently inserting the exact same pack into a repo
[01:22] <spiv> Which is exactly what tends to happen when you want N builders to fetch and test the latest revision.
[01:22] <stewart> spiv, yep :)
[01:23] <stewart> spiv, so... jenkins does "bzr revision-info -d /path/to" and " bzr log -v -r revid:foo" ... should that fit with stacked on ?
[01:24] <stewart> spiv, because if so... we could just stack on the launchpad branches and be done with it...
[01:24] <spiv> Sure, stacking is transparent (aside from the cost of hitting the stacked-on repo over the network if you need to access data from older revisions)
[01:24] <stewart> spiv, (and i'd likely go and push this into the jenkins bzr plugin)
[01:25] <stewart> spiv, it never does that. it's only ever current revision or pulling a tree with --overwrite.
[01:25] <spiv> The downside stacking used to have is that you couldn't commit to a stacked branch, but that's fixed for 2a
[01:25] <spiv> (And has been for a year or so)
[01:25] <stewart> spiv, and a jenkins checkout should probably never be committed to anyway (the bzr jenkins plugin doesn't)
[01:25] <spiv> Right
[01:25] <stewart> spiv, as it's really just using bzr as a transport to get the latest tree.
[01:26] <spiv> Right.
[01:26] <spiv> Which is something that bzr really ought to support as a cheap operation!
[01:26] <spiv> And either creating a stacked branch or lightweight checkout are the obvious ways the UI provides that *should* do it.
[01:26] <stewart> spiv, when was stacked introduced?
[01:27] <stewart> spiv, yeah, the lightweight checkout isn't really lightweight :)
[01:27] <spiv> But I haven't kept up with bug fixes/new features, so I don't know if they have been fixed to meet that goal yet.
[01:27] <stewart> spiv, so, bzr revert seemed to fix things up.... I'm kinda tempted to add that to the standard bzr jenkins plugin checkout procedure.
[01:27] <stewart> spiv, it may have been fixed, but only in more recent versions... which is fun when you have ancient systems like CentOS 5
[01:28] <stewart> heck... until earlier this year we had debian 5
[01:28] <stewart> and centos5 will exist approximately forever.
[01:28] <spiv> (If not, I can point you to an old branch of mine on lp that is a working proof-of-concept for making stacking work reasonably fast for this case)
[01:29] <spiv> Well, so long as you can install bzr plugins, there's hope…
[01:29] <spiv> But first it requires that the bzr on the server (in this case Launchpad?) has the necessary features :)
[01:30] <stewart> spiv, yeah, we always point at launchpad trees, so it's a non issue for us :)
[01:31] <stewart> spiv, i gather things would explode if somebody put a sftp:// branch or something with --stacked ?
[01:37] <spiv> stewart: it won't be hugely efficient, but it shouldn't be utterly horrible either.
[01:39] <stewart> spiv, awesome. Basically it was a "should I make a configuration variable for this" :)
[01:39] <stewart> spiv, I'm kind of tempted to remove the functionality for checkouts and just replace it with stacked branches. I'm struggling to see the benefit of checkout over stacked branch.
[01:42] <spiv> stewart: probably they tickle different performance bugs depending on the bzr versions involved :/
[01:43] <spiv> (And really they ought to be about as efficient as each other for this use case)
[01:48] <stewart> spiv, yeah, ought to be but aren't :)
[01:59] <mwhudson> stewart: bzr super-revert is rm -rf *; bzr revert :)
[02:00] <mwhudson> (maybe bzr remove-tree --force; bzr checkout)
[02:03] <spiv> mwhudson: or 'bzr clean-tree --ignored --unknown --detritus; bzr revert' I think :)
[02:04] <mwhudson> spiv: yeah something like that
[02:04] <mwhudson> bzr ls -R0 | xargs -0 rm ?
[02:09] <spiv> mwhudson: then do alias hulk_SMASH='…'
[02:09] <mwhudson> :)
[06:27] <hacosta> i ran bzr mv on a directory, but then i regreted that, so i mv'ed them back
[06:27] <hacosta> and now when i run bzr status i get a bunch of renames that show the same path
[06:27] <hacosta> e.g
[06:28] <hacosta> a/b/foo.c => a/b/foo.c
[06:28] <hacosta> will that appear how do i remove that
[06:28] <hacosta> i haven't commited anything at this point
[06:30] <fullermd> That probably means something in the dir tree wasn't mv'd back, but took on a new identity.
[06:31] <fullermd> You can use revert to throw things back (trickier if you have content or nearby changes to preserve)
[06:31] <hacosta> i had a couple of modifications on some files :S
[06:40] <fullermd> Well, you could stash a diff and reapply it by hand.  Or try shelving.
[06:43] <bob2> bzr mv --help
[06:43] <bob2> tl;dr after or whatever it is
[12:10] <Oli> How do I drop all the changes in a working branch (so that it drops back to the state it was at the last commit)?
[12:10] <jelmer> Oli: 'bzr revert'
[12:11] <Oli> Duuh. Thanks jelmer!
[15:13] <jelmer> vila: https://code.launchpad.net/~jelmer/bzr/rm-get-ancestry/+merge/112090
[15:14] <jelmer> vila: https://code.launchpad.net/~jelmer/bzr-upload/install-lazy-named-hook/+merge/97942
[15:25] <jelmer> vila: bug 863261
[15:25] <jelmer> vila: triiiiing
[15:26] <jelmer> vila: and bug 544776
[15:44] <jelmer> vila: if you feel like doing more bzr reviews, I have some more.. :-)
[15:46] <vila> jelmer: trying to *commit* in all my pies currently ;)
[15:59] <jelmer> hehe, okay
[17:12] <dobey> hey all
[17:13] <dobey> so bzr 2.6 removes Hooks.create_hook() which was deprecated in 2.4, but switching code to use that breaks compat with bzr 2.1 and 2.3 which are shipped in lucid and natty
[17:14] <dobey> anyone have a suggestion how to deal with this in a reasonable way?
[17:14] <dobey> or does one just have to duplicate the calls by doing try/except?
[17:27] <dobey> i guess try/except with a bit of magic is the way to goo. nevermind me


[02:34] <MutantTurkey> woop woop
[02:39] <rmg51> poow poow
[03:31] <MutantTurkey> sigh
[03:31] <MutantTurkey> day 2.5
[03:32] <MutantTurkey> jedijf: this is terrible
[03:32] <MutantTurkey> also martin graesslin layed major smackdown on TDE in his blogpost
[03:32] <MutantTurkey> LET THE FLAME WAR BEGIN
[03:32] <MutantTurkey> lol
[09:38] <EvilResistance> eesh, hubbard is explodified :/
[11:32] <rmg51> Morning
[12:14] <JonathanD> Morning.
[12:19] <rmg51> o/
[13:30] <rmg51> jedijf: your slipping. only one email?
[13:30] <rmg51> how long should I wait till the others arrive?
[13:36] <jedijf> rmg51: hmm, iwas gonna wait until after the pacs meeting for that batch of emails
[13:36] <Sadin> Bitbucket and github so good yet bitbucket is imo better for a few reasons...
[13:37] <rmg51> jedijf: me and the bear can wait ;-)
[20:33] <ChinnoDog> I made my computer quieter. The fan that was making the noise... I removed it.
[20:35] <ChinnoDog> Hope I didn't need that.
[20:36] <pleia2> you'll find out in the summer :)
[20:37] <ChinnoDog> hehe
[20:37] <ChinnoDog> It was on the video card. It is cheaper to buy a new video card with passive cooling than replace the fan so if it overheats like this I will just replace it
[20:39] <Sadin> what do you guys think of an idea ive just started working on https://bitbucket.org/Sadin56/thanksfrom.me
[20:39] <PennBot> Title: Sadin56 / Thanksfrom.me / overview Bitbucket (at bitbucket.org)
[20:40] <pleia2> there were a lot of discussions at the last UDS about thank yous
[20:41] <Sadin> UDS? pleia2
[20:41] <pleia2> ubuntu developer summit
[20:41] <Sadin> ah
[20:42] <Sadin> pleia2 well i hope to get this rails app launched though http://heroku.com or on my VPS and id like to see people try it out :)
[20:42] <pleia2> all discussion boiled down to "there is nothing like personal thank yous and public thank yous (in news, blog posts, whatever)"
[20:42] <PennBot> Title: Heroku | Cloud Application Platform (at heroku.com)
[23:41] <EvilResistance> pleia2, guess who brought back PennBot (or at least, partly restored it)