[00:04] <bumblefuzz> so, I'm trying to install pacakge 'libfsapfs-utils' and I'm booted on the ubuntu livedisk
[00:04] <bumblefuzz> it keeps saying that it is 'unable to locate package'
[00:05] <bumblefuzz> however, when I try this command on my standalone ubuntu install, it immediately locates the package and asks to install
[00:05] <bumblefuzz> so, the command is correct
[00:05] <bumblefuzz> why would the livedisk not be able to install libfsapfs-utils?
[00:06] <bumblefuzz> I've already run 'sudo apt update'
[00:06] <bumblefuzz> it still can't find it
[00:08] <summonner> does apt-search find it?
[00:09] <bumblefuzz> it's in universe or multiverse
[00:09] <bumblefuzz> that's what was\
[00:12] <rfm> bumblefuzz, is universe in the live CD's source.list?
[00:19] <guiverc> bumblefuzz, depending what ISO/live-media you've booted they maybe enabled or disabled (universe)
[02:01] <iwantandroid> hey guys trying to get anbox working - which sorta did, but no binder support so can't create any files and apps crash - which I'm assuming is because it can't write anything to "disk"
[02:02] <iwantandroid> on 20.04, second clean install - tried the modules now but they fail to compile (guessing the ones that are in the kernel already might be the issue)
[02:02] <iwantandroid> 5.8.0-50-generic
[02:46] <oops> my audacity can't record sound , when i speaking the base line are always a line
[02:52] <blogten> hi, I need to install clang on Ubuntu 20.04 LTS, but I do not want it to become the default compiler or somehow mess with the official gcc 9.3.0 compiler that comes with Ubuntu 20.04 LTS.  what is the best way to proceed?
[02:56] <tomreyn> blogten: sudo apt update && sudo apt install clang
[02:58] <blogten> does doing that change cc, or gcc, or gdb, or any of the standard gcc binaries / symlinks?
[02:59] <blogten> or, does that somehow mess with alternatives
[03:04] <tomreyn> blogten: i think it adds new alternatives, but it won't change existing ones
[03:04] <tomreyn> i.e. it won't override your choices
[03:05] <tomreyn> but hey, just give it a try, it's easy to remove and purge any package
[03:07] <blogten> tomreyn: does doing that change cc, or gcc, or gdb, or any of the standard gcc binaries / symlinks?
[03:07] <blogten> what the...
[03:08] <blogten> @tomreyn: any reason to install clang rather than clang-11?  clang resolves to clang-10.
[03:09] <tomreyn> blogten: it's what your ubuntu release provides by default
[03:11] <blogten> ok, done.  cc --version still says gcc.
[03:11] <jpmh> I want to include a unicode character in my PS1 promt string, how do I do it?
[03:12] <tomreyn> type it where you set the prompt
[03:13] <jpmh> tomf: I know what the code is - how do I even type it?
[03:14] <tomreyn> ctrl-shift-u then the code, then space
[03:26] <jpmh> tomreyn: ty so much
[03:28] <tomreyn> you're welcome
[04:09] <Canti>  /join #gentoo
[05:12] <ffwacom> what's the canonical way to start programs on boot in ubuntu server?
[05:12] <ffwacom> I want to run a script as a certain user on boot
[05:12] <ffwacom> they arn't configured as services (though I suppose that is possible some how?)
[05:16] <yao_ziyuan> a sandisk 128GB usb stick bought in 2017, now windows 10 only recognizes it as having 32GB. why?
[05:17] <RingtailedFox> it's only showing up as a 32GB volume?
[05:17] <RingtailedFox> is a windows 10 install image on the stick?
[05:18] <RingtailedFox> i know in Windows 10, it only lets you format partitions in FAT32 up to 32 GB... i think that's to try to encourage people to move to the better NTFS or exFAT (basically, FAT64)...
[05:19] <RingtailedFox> this might be relevant though: https://forums.sandisk.com/t/128-gb-flash-drive-recognized-as-32-gb-flash-drive/33790
[05:19] <ffwacom> is the correct way creating a systemd script similar to this: https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/rjhDtN6P/
[05:20] <RingtailedFox> yao_ziyuan, i hope that helps
[05:38] <yao_ziyuan> RingtailedFox: FIXED, THANKS!
[05:38] <RingtailedFox> how did ya fix it?
[05:38] <yao_ziyuan> RingtailedFox: it's the Windows 10 Media Creation Tool which partitioned the usb stick to 32GB (and 80GB+ unallocated space)
[05:38] <RingtailedFox> :)
[09:03] <s10gopal> what is the difference between --set and --set-file in setfacl? i want to make files are created with default permissions of 664 , and directories with default permissions of 775
[09:14] <[VMGuy23]> Is there anydifference in --help?
[09:14] <[VMGuy23]> *any difference
[09:16] <s10gopal> man says "The  --set and --set-file options set the ACL of a file or a directory.
[09:16] <s10gopal>        The previous ACL is replaced.  ACL entries for this operation must  in‐
[09:16] <s10gopal>        clude permissions." but it is very confusing
[09:16] <[VMGuy23]> Probably one of those things with multiple possible flags for one thing
[09:17] <[VMGuy23]> Or maybe --set is for dirs but --set-file is only for files
[09:21] <s10gopal> but setfacl -d -R --set-file u::rw,g::rw,o::r /sh says no such file or directory, it works with --set flag
[09:23] <[VMGuy23]> --set-file might be one file only
[09:25] <s10gopal> i want to make in a directory, files are created with 664 and directories with 775, can you please guide, how to achieve it?
[09:25] <[VMGuy23]> I don't know, someone else might be able to help
[10:18] <[VMGuy23]> Just installed Unity, how do I get the search menu working?
[10:27] <[VMGuy23]> Hevemind, fixed
[10:27] <[VMGuy23]> *nevermind
[12:04] <catalin> Hello! I can't control my brightness on my laptop. I have nvidia gtx 1650
[12:04] <catalin> https://askubuntu.com/questions/1335382/brightness-control-not-working-on-lenovo-ideapad-creator-5-ubuntu-20-04
[12:04] <catalin> Please help
[12:31] <agvantibo> Hello. I am having problems  upgrading.
[12:32] <lotuspsychje> !details | agvantibo
[12:32] <solsTiCe> hi. I had an old PC for my mum runnin 20.04 (Sata SSD, 4Gb RAM). Everything was fine. Except, recently, it began to perform rather slowly.
[12:32] <agvantibo> I am typing
[12:32] <agvantibo> agvantibo@ThinkPad-X230 ~> update-manager
[12:32] <agvantibo> Checking for a new Ubuntu release
[12:32] <agvantibo> Please install all available updates for your release before upgrading.
[12:32] <agvantibo> agvantibo@ThinkPad-X230 ~ [1]>
[12:33] <agvantibo> This is what update-manager and do-release-upgrade tell
[12:33] <jaiya> looks like you need to update your current release before you upgrade
[12:33] <agvantibo> Even though I've updated everything
[12:34] <Maik> agvantibo: are you trying to upgrade to 21.04?
[12:34] <agvantibo> Yes
[12:34] <Maik> don't
[12:34] <agvantibo> WHy
[12:35] <Maik> it's not recommended at this point due a shim bug
[12:35] <Maik> "Release Upgrades- Upgrades from Ubuntu 20.10 to Ubuntu 21.04 are not enabled as it is possible for some systems to end up in an unbootable state if they use EFI version 1.10 - bug 1925010. 580 Release upgrades will be enabled once an updated version of shim is available which is compatible with EFI version 1.10."
[12:35] <agvantibo> It still doesn't allow that, I want to upgrade at least to groovy
[12:36] <agvantibo> And yes, I do remember hearing about how this might affect some users
[12:36] <Maik> agvantibo: which version are you using now?
[12:36] <lotuspsychje> solsTiCe: 4GB is a bit low for running gnome, unless you tweak things around a bit
[12:37] <agvantibo> Maik 20.04 Focal
[12:37] <Maik> lotuspsychje: runs fine on my 4GB machine
[12:37] <solsTiCe> lotuspsychje: was fine. I have even only get 3GB until recently
[12:38] <Maik> 4GB RAM and up is recommended as system requirement
[12:38] <agvantibo> Maik I've removed all the side PPA's to reinstall them later, and it worked
[12:38] <lotuspsychje> solsTiCe: did it happen after updates or when did it start to occur?
[12:38] <Maik> agvantibo: i upgraded from 20.04 to 20.10 without any issues on one of my machines
[12:39] <agvantibo> "It works on my machine "
[12:39] <solsTiCe> lotuspsychje: I odn't know. I am not using the pc. I think between christhmas and now
[12:40] <agvantibo> https://i.imgur.com/DamNsIN.png SHIT, this hanged now
[12:40] <BluesKaj> Hi folks
[12:41] <lotuspsychje> solsTiCe: try: sudo apt install preload haveged bleachbit stacer and clean around a bit
[12:41] <solsTiCe> ok. I'll try
[12:41] <Maik> agvantibo: just wait.....
[12:42] <Maik> if nothing happens try to start over again
[12:42] <lotuspsychje> solsTiCe: with stacer you can disabled unwanted systemd services, make your machine boot/run smoother
[12:44] <solsTiCe> I wonder if it's not another cpu related mitigigation for sec vul. But it's an amd cpu
[12:46] <lotuspsychje> solsTiCe: its possible new kernels influence, also worth a test to try booting a previous kernel
[12:46] <lotuspsychje> solsTiCe: when you at your moms, please connect the support channel so volunteers can ask you logs to debug
[12:48] <solsTiCe> Yes. I'll look at the logs
[13:13] <agvantibo> Maik: Yes, everything appears to be smooth, and apt is churning out package after package. But... Let's wait until reboot
[13:17] <Maik> agvantibo: how did it go?
[13:28]  * enyc meows
[13:28] <enyc> hrrm 21.04 controversies aiui
[13:30] <enyc> I have asus x201e needs 'nomodeset' to get non-blackscreen on ubuntucinnamon 21.04  and even then after it sleeps, blackscreen can recur
[13:30] <enyc> other devuan, mxlinux, mint-cinnamon-20.1 fine on same system
[13:34] <Maik> enyc: didn't you mention that the last time? Also as you know Ubuntu Cinnamon Remix isn't supported here in this channel since, again, it's not a official Ubuntu Flavour as of yet.
[13:34] <Maik> i told you to chat with Itzwirl about it
[13:36] <enyc> Maik: well, you said  maybe ItzSwirlz can    and subsequently itzswirlz has awoken
[13:36] <enyc> Maik: in any case, curious what related issues known with wider 21.04 (including supported variants)
[13:36] <enyc> why are there stories of 'urged not to upgrade to 21.04' going on?
[13:37] <Maik> enyc: read the reales notes
[13:37] <Maik> release
[13:37] <Maik> i'm not repeating what already has been explained
[13:40] <Maik> enyc: upgrade isn't recommended due this bug in shim: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/shim/+bug/1925010
[13:53] <BlueEagle> Hello. I have a Nacon Pro Compact controller, but it is not recognized by xboxdrv or xpad. I would like to try to add the vendor and device number to xpad.c and recompile the kernel module in hopes that it will "just work" with this device. I have installed the kernel sources and build-essental and located the xpad.c file, but now I do not know how to proceed.
[13:59] <BlueEagle> I have added the line { 0x3285, 0x0603, "Nacon Pro Compact", 0, XTYPE_XBOXONE }, to the list of devices as that is the vendor and product IDs, and Widows says it's an XBox One controller
[14:03] <BlueEagle> Also this controller does have an integrated USB sound card (which Linux also does not detect), so I am afraid that I might need more than the vendor and device id to determine the correct thing in the controller that is the controller and not the sound card.
[14:20] <BlueEagle> The lsusb -v for the device can be found here: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/CGHGMcHVWb/
[14:28] <tomreyn> BlueEagle: 0 search results for this device on the web, that's rare.
[14:28] <tomreyn> i searched for 3285:0603 specifically
[14:29] <BlueEagle> tomreyn: That is also what I have found. Vendor page is here: https://www.nacongaming.com/en-GB/pro-compact-controller
[14:29] <tomreyn> i'd just return it (if you can) and get one that's know to work
[14:30] <tomreyn> *known
[14:31] <BlueEagle> tomreyn: The thing is that I'm currently in a very small village, and this was the one controller they had. Also returning it and getting a new one hardly qualifies as "challenge accepted". :p
[14:31] <tomreyn> :)
[14:31] <BlueEagle> tomreyn: I guess my real question is; can I compile just one module and have it somehow replace the existing one.
[14:39] <tomreyn> BlueEagle: install build-essential + kernel headers, download module source code, create / modify Makefile if needed, "make" it, insmod the .ko
[14:40] <TJ-> BlueEagle:looks like that device is using a random vendor ID; it isn't registered with the USB IF
[14:45] <BlueEagle> TJ-: So someone is skirting on the licensing fees to the USB foundation or whomever is in charge? Not surprising.
[14:56] <BlueEagle> tomreyn: I tried make menuconfig and then make it, but make fails on #include <openssl/opensslv.h>
[14:56] <TJ-> BlueEagle: "sudo apt-get build-dep linux"
[14:57] <TJ-> BlueEagle: it needs the development headers for supporting packages; libssl-dev for the X509 certificate checking code
[14:59] <BlueEagle> TJ-: Woha. That was a lot of packages.
[15:09] <last1> is installing from usb 3.0 key supported ?
[15:10] <Maik> last1: of course
[15:11] <last1> the initial purple image appears but then it drops to text mode and it says: unable to find a medium containing a live file system
[15:12] <last1> ah wait, I tried again, and now it's on checking disks
[15:12] <BlueEagle> last1: Try Balena Etcher to write the ISO file to the USB drive.
[15:12] <BlueEagle> last1: I had some trouble with some other USB writers previously.
[15:13] <last1> I used rufus, it worked now the second time
[15:13] <last1> but first boot it threw that error
[15:14] <BlueEagle> last1: Good that it worked now. If at first you dont' succeed ... you fail. :)
[15:16] <BlueEagle> TJ-: Hmm. Seems that some certificates are needed or must be removed from the config: make[1]: *** No rule to make target 'debian/canonical-certs.pem', needed by 'certs/x509_certificate_list'.  Stop.
[15:20] <BlueEagle> I'll try to make clean and then make again.
[15:49] <TJ-> BlueEagle: i'd suspect that file doesn't exist; it is used by Canonical to sign the built executables. Maybe you can edit x509_certificate_list ?
[16:34] <mrtrousers> Hello
[16:34] <mrtrousers> What is the recomended napster client for ubuntu 20? Anything i can install from command line?
[16:42] <remby> how does mandb get updated in ubuntu? is there an apt hook?
[16:43] <shoober420> hi frens
[16:43] <shoober420> does anyone here use apulse inplace of pulseaudio
[16:47] <BlueEagle> TJ-: I'll see if I can find it.
[16:55] <BlueEagle> TJ-: Found it
[17:59] <DJAnonimo> !info network-manager focal
[18:00] <DJAnonimo> !info network-manager xenial
[18:16] <alf1975> [19:15] <alf1975> Any problems ? with Dalton Syndrome ???
[18:16] <alf1975> [19:15] <alf1975> experiment this script : https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZW2TejBYRA45LqF59UkHO-T6nau9uidb/view?usp=sharing
[18:16] <alf1975> [19:15] <alf1975> Richard Allan
[18:16] <alf1975> [19:16] <alf1975> yes in Linux
[18:17] <alf1975> [19:16] <alf1975> Ubuntu/Kubuntu
[18:17] <alf1975> [19:16] <alf1975> it's not mine
[18:17] <alf1975> [19:16] <alf1975> but it helps a lot
[18:17] <alf1975> [19:16] <alf1975> .'.
 alf1975: Seriously, stop spamming the Ubuntu channels with nonsense like that already.
[18:20] <cranberry> Hi, upon using curl it fails with curl: (60) SSL certificate problem: unable to get local issuer certificate - using the verbose option I see what's happening, apparently at one point in the past I manually set the CAfile to use to an internal CA: * successfully set certificate verify locations: CAfile: /etc/ssl/xxx/ca.crt - I cannot find anything about removing that  - Does someone know how to
[18:20] <cranberry> reset it to use the default system ca instead of my custom one?
[18:20] <cranberry> it's only on my user account, with a different one it's not set
[18:21] <Maik> krytarik: he's been doing that for a while now but refuses to listen when told so, time to do something about it because it's becoming a annoyance
[18:24] <krytarik> Yeah, I'm afraid so too..
[18:24] <remby> can apt install from files?
[18:24] <krytarik> Yup.
[18:24] <remby> without command line hacks? :P
[18:25] <remby> I didn't see anything in the man page for apt-get
[18:25] <krytarik> Unless you consider having to do "apt install ./foo.deb" a hack, then yes. :P
[18:27] <remby> oh my bad, I didn't clarify. I am thinking about how to install a list of packages from a file
[18:28] <krytarik> I have a hard time grasping what exactly you mean by that though..
[18:30] <remby> like a text file that has: gcc make cmake, and I install them all by saying apt-get packages-list.txt
[18:35] <rfm> apt install `cat packagex-list.txt`
[18:35] <alf1975> green apple and orange = 101st Division, American Army
[18:35] <alf1975> they used this colors over France in 6 June 1944, for them being identifyed as amercians
[18:35] <alf1975> .'.
[18:36] <Maik> !ops
[18:37] <RingtailedFox> what's wrong, maik?
[18:37] <Maik> RingtailedFox: alf1975 doesn't seem to stop
[18:37] <krytarik> alf1975: Stop posting wildly off-topic stuff in here or I'm gonna have to make you stop.
[18:38] <RingtailedFox> i see that now
[18:38] <Maik> he's been asked kindly multiple times this month to take it offtopic or elsewhere but he won't listen
[18:38] <Maik> RingtailedFox: also in #kubuntu
[18:38] <Maik> and he keeps going on
[18:38] <kk4ewt> they are banned already in all the #fedora channels
[18:38] <RingtailedFox> he's in ##windows as well but not posting there. probably out of fear of being banned
[18:39] <RingtailedFox> might wanna take this to #freenode to get him banned from the network
[18:39] <Maik> good to know kk4ewt i was told he had been at it there too
[18:39] <RingtailedFox> maik, i'm in #freenode now
[18:40] <kk4ewt> also want to remind everyone they do have /ignore in most clients
[18:40] <Maik> thanks RingtailedFox
[18:40] <RingtailedFox> you should join there as wellkl
[18:40] <Maik> kk4ewt: that never works because the majority is too curious about what the other still says
[19:40] <apb1963> I'm trying to install 20.04, it's telling me I haven't selected a mount point... I don't see where to do that.
[19:41] <[VMGuy23]> Are you using a custom partition layout?
[19:43] <apb1963> I don't know how to answer that.   I have multiple partitions already in use.  I'm selecting "install alongside".
[19:48] <apb1963> [VMGuy23], ^^^^^
[19:51] <B0g4r7> Why is systemd unmounting my disks?
[19:52] <apb1963> [VMGuy23], It shows me 2 large partitions, and I have to click on advanced partitioning tool to see the smaller one I want to use.
[19:52] <B0g4r7> I mount it, no error is given, but I find that it's not mounted.  Then when I examine the system log I find: systemd[1]: Unmounted /disks/sas03-002
[19:54] <B0g4r7> It says systemd[1]: disks-sas03\x2d002.mount: Unit is bound to inactive unit dev-disk-by\x2duuid-13887484\x2daec8\x2d46b5\x2dab29\x2d35e5bb96e9c0.device. Stopping, too.
[19:55] <apb1963> [VMGuy23], OK nvm.. I figured it out,  Thanks.
[19:59] <B0g4r7> Oh look, it's because systemd is a cunt: https://www.bentasker.co.uk/documentation/linux/480-disk-automatically-unmounts-immediately-after-mounting
[19:59] <B0g4r7> I hate you systemd.
[20:00] <B0g4r7> Thinking it knows better what should or should not be mounted.  The nerve.
[20:02] <apb1963> If I tell it to mount /dev/xxx on /home ... it's not going to overwrite anything, is it?  I am of course leaving "format" unchecked.
[20:03] <B0g4r7> Generally mounting a filesystem is a non-destructive operation.
[20:03] <apb1963> This is an installation.
[20:04] <apb1963> Installations are generally destructive if you're not extremely careful.
[20:05] <B0g4r7> If in doubt, leave it alone and modify your fstab after install.
[20:05] <apb1963> And, considering I don't have any experience with this version of the installer, I'm very nervous as it's not too intuitive.
[20:05] <apb1963> Yeah but it's going to create things in /home/apb
[20:06] <apb1963> And that's the overwriting I'm both afraid of, and may need.
[20:06] <apb1963> Hidden files perhaps,  Directories... other files  I don't know.
[20:08] <apb1963> I mean hell... it asked me if I wanted to install before I selected where I wanted it, so I had to simply pray for the best with my fingers crossed.  I got lucky.  Very unfriendly.
[20:11] <apb1963> I guess Sunday is not a good support day  I was wondering about that earlier,
[20:15] <BlueEagle> apb1963: I thought there was a set-by-step walk through of the installation process on the homepage.
[20:18] <apb1963> what is the homepage?
[20:23] <apb1963> so i just looked at the installation guide on ubuntu.com.. this situation is not covered.
[20:29] <BlueEagle> apb1963: Then I think the people in charge of the guide would greatly appreciate your suggestions for improvement.
[20:31] <tomreyn> or will just go ahead and develop a replacement installer.
[20:31] <tomreyn> apb1963: are you still looking for help with this?
[20:32] <tomreyn> if so, post a screenshot of the partitioning screen and describe what is what / what needs to be kept.
[20:58] <a1fa> hello - i am trying to run a headless ubuntu with nvidia telsa gpu. i am using lightdm with tigervnc
[20:59] <a1fa> but that combination seems to change the renderer to llvmpipe
[20:59] <TJ-> strange issue - 20.04, amd64, Firefox 88.0, but sending v78 useragent string! "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/78.0" :s
[20:59] <a1fa> Xorg.0.log shows no issues
[21:00] <a1fa> $ nvidia-smi  | grep X
[21:00] <a1fa> |    0   N/A  N/A     21210      G   /usr/lib/xorg/Xorg                 38MiB |
[21:00] <a1fa> driver is loaded correctly... but GLX is not working.., and I think it's because of vnc server
[21:12] <Aavar> Do you know of a IRC channel for Steam on linux (specifically among us)?
[21:14] <tomreyn> TJ-: FWIW, that'sd nt happening on the firefox 88.0+build2-0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS> package in bionic: User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Ubuntu; Linux x86_64; rv:88.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/88.0
[21:15] <tomreyn> Aavar: i think there is #ubuntu-steam, i'm not aware of a steam specific channel. but ask alis about it
[21:15] <tomreyn> !alis
[21:15] <Aavar> tomreyn: thank you :)
[21:16] <TJ-> tomreyn: this is a really weird one! noticed it first last week. Initially thought it was the UserAgent Switcher but after disabling that it still happens. No overrides in about:config either
[21:17] <tomreyn> "UserAgent Switcher" uses containers, so one tab may behave / report info differently than another
[21:17] <tomreyn> try a new profile
[21:17] <tomreyn> (or safe mode)
[21:18] <TJ-> tomreyn: also happens in --safe-mode
[21:18] <tomreyn> is the extension enabled in safe mode, though?
[21:18] <TJ-> no
[21:19] <TJ-> that's the point of safe mode, it disabled them
[21:19] <tomreyn> hmm, interesting
[21:19] <tomreyn> sorry, i mixed up safe mode vs private mode there
[21:21] <TJ-> tomreyn: good call about profile. new one it's not there
[21:21] <TJ-> so, now to hunt the prefs.js !
[21:30] <TJ-> hmmm, no clues as to where it is sourced from
[21:51] <unixbsd> I have fixed the networking of ubuntu groovy, and created a tarball, with a standard ubuntu groovy with an improved networking layer:  https://gitlab.com/openbsd98324/linux-ubuntu-groovy-standard/-/archive/master/linux-ubuntu-groovy-standard-master.zip
[21:54] <tomreyn> unixbsd: this doesn'T seem to be a support Q&A topic, so please keep those 'updates' out of this channel.
[21:54] <TJ-> what the!?! unixbsd  ifupdown has been DEPRECATED for almost the entire last decade!
[21:55] <TJ-> unixbsd: please don't go sharing that around; even my first cursory inspection tells me it is a retrograde step
[21:57] <unixbsd> the admin and the mouse click. this is console modus, only keyboard to setup the box. nice no?
[21:59] <unixbsd> TJ-: which low end networking you may recommend then? systemd?
[22:00] <TJ-> systemd-networkd or network-manager; both of those do not require a GUI and can be configured by nertplan if required
[22:00] <unixbsd> this takes ages at boot and very much failing... unstable net.
[22:00] <tomreyn> could you two please move this discussion elsewhere?
[22:01] <TJ-> Ubuntu defaults to systemd-networkd for -server (non GUI) installs and network-manager (with network-manager-gnome*) for GUI
[22:01] <unixbsd> thx
[22:03] <tomreyn> TJ-: possibly relevant to your firefox issue https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/customizing-firefox-using-autoconfig
[22:03] <tomreyn> you can configure firefox to take preferences from a given url. this feature cannt be disabled.
[22:07] <DJAnonimo> !info vi xenial
[22:07] <DJAnonimo> !info vim xenial
[22:08] <unixbsd> elvis is vi close original
[22:08] <unixbsd> there isnt vi in ubuntu, but vi clones
[22:10] <krytarik> Elvis?
[22:11] <unixbsd> elvis is the default vi in other distros, like slackware. vim is the defualt of ubuntu. they take vim and compile it tiny. it is vim.tiny
[22:13] <krytarik> Ah, funny name there!..
[22:13] <unixbsd> no songs, just text, you can type maybe better lyrics ;)
[22:13] <krytarik> I bet! XD
[22:14] <TJ-> tomreyn: unfortunately not that simple !
[22:16] <tomreyn> hopefully your system is fast enough to gdb firefox.
[22:21] <TJ-> gdb isn't going to help here
[22:22] <TJ-> i thought it might be the responsive web-developer tooling that allows setting various useragents, but that only affects the responive view and doesn't include this string anyhow... confusing how/where it is coming from but I'll bet it'll be a 'duh' moment when found
[23:04] <apb1963> After installing 20.04 and rebooting, I am at the grub rescue prompt. :(
[23:05] <apb1963> no such device.  unknown filesystem.
[23:08] <tomreyn> apb1963: what's the hardware, how many storage devices ("disks"), did you install in legacy bios or uefi mode?
[23:09] <apb1963> asus mamaboard desktop; 3 hdd; I don't recall the bios.
[23:10] <tomreyn> maybe you booted in a different mode when you were installing than when you first booted?
[23:10] <apb1963> I didn't change anything in regard to uefi mode in the bios.
[23:10] <tomreyn> is this a multi-boot setup?
[23:10] <apb1963> yes
[23:11] <tomreyn> this can be bug 1396379
[23:12] <apb1963> I used the same device for grub as the biosgrub partition.
[23:13] <tomreyn> a biosgrub partition suggests booting in (legacy) bios mode
[23:13] <apb1963> so I used /dev/sdb and biosgrub was already on /dev/sdb8
[23:14] <apb1963> I don't know if that matters, but it kinda looks like grub is messed up.  I don't know if I have EFI partitions...was there something I needed to do for that?
[23:15] <tomreyn> biosgrub is the partition the second part of grub is loaded from when you're booting in bios mode. the first part is usually loaded from the first sector of the disk that's setup as the boot device in bios.
[23:16] <tomreyn> so if your bios is configured to boot off this disk that's sdb, what you discussed above could have worked.
[23:17] <apb1963> I need to verify that... I was just looking at that and there's no way to map the manufacturer/drive to a filesystem w/out having it running I think.
[23:17] <tomreyn> the "efi system partition" (or multiple of it, which you normally wouldn't have), is relevant if you're booting in UEFI mode only
[23:18] <apb1963> if there's an efi part. is it labeled as such?  Or is it silent?
[23:19] <tomreyn> hmm i don't remember exactly. it does have the GPT partition type for ESP assigned to it.
[23:19] <apb1963> Is there anything I can do from grub rescue mode or is there no reason to not reboot?
[23:19] <apb1963> I don't recall any GPT labels... or UEFI labels on the partitions.
[23:20] <tomreyn> you can run "ls" to see which storage devices grub sees
[23:20] <apb1963> hd0
[23:20] <apb1963> which is utterly useless info to me.
[23:20] <tomreyn> just one disk, hmm, but you said you had multiple
[23:20] <apb1963> yes
[23:21] <tomreyn> maybe your mainboard is prevent it from seeing them. i remember this occurs sometimes, but don't remember how to fix it. certianly something in the bios.
[23:21] <apb1963> My BIOS is funky.  I was playing with it earlier specifically the boot order.  That's why I want to take another look, but only once we're done with grub rescue
[23:22] <tomreyn> if grub can't see your boot device, there's nothing else you can get done there now.
[23:22] <apb1963> well that's just it... which device is hd0?
[23:22] <apb1963> which disk?
[23:22] <apb1963> no way to know
[23:22] <tomreyn> press tab twice
[23:22] <tomreyn> ls <tab> <tab>
[23:23] <apb1963> I think tab/file completion is part of the shell.  No results.
[23:24] <tomreyn> maybe:  ls (hd0)<tab><tab>
[23:24] <apb1963> nope
[23:24] <apb1963> same results... nothing
[23:25] <tomreyn> ls (hd0)<enter>
[23:25] <apb1963> Filesystem is unknown
[23:25] <tomreyn> and just    ls<enter>   only outputs "(hd0)", nothing else?
[23:26] <apb1963> followed by the grub rescue prompt correct
[23:26] <tomreyn> right so the bios is preventing grub from seeing your disks
[23:27] <apb1963> so if we're done with grub rescue, I'll reboot and move the disks around in the boot order.
[23:27] <tomreyn> yes, you're done there, i think
[23:27] <apb1963> All it gives me are manf. and models so it's all guesswork
[23:28] <tomreyn> is this 20.04.0 or a newer release?
[23:28] <apb1963> I snarfed it the other day so...
[23:29] <apb1963> newer I guess.
[23:29] <tomreyn> by starting at https://ubuntu.com ?
[23:29] <apb1963> errrmmm...I searched and clicked a link... I think so, but don't remember for sure.
[23:30] <tomreyn> the latest 20.04 installer would be <IP_ADDRESS>, and the .iso file you downloaded would have said so.,
[23:30] <apb1963> I can check the usb stick
[23:31] <apb1963> <IP_ADDRESS>
[23:32] <tomreyn> not strictly needed for now, i was just wondering whether maybe you ran into a known bug that was since fixed.
[23:32] <tomreyn> oh ok :)
[23:32] <tomreyn> so thats the latest, good.
[23:33] <tomreyn> i think that if you'll search the web for your specific mainboard model and "grub" or the specific error message you got when grub dropped to the CLI, you'll find instructions to solve this.
[23:34] <tomreyn> you'll probably need to reconfigure somehting in the bios setup utility which is not the boot order
[23:34] <apb1963> yeah, I'll poke around in the bios... thx!
[23:34] <tomreyn> disabling secure boot would be good for starters, but from what i understand you were booting in legacy bios mode, so that option would not exist.
[23:35] <apb1963> ugh... how do I get out of grub rescue?
[23:35] <tomreyn> ctrl-alt-delete
[23:35] <apb1963> that'll do it... exit, quit ctrl-d  not so much
[23:36] <tomreyn> i think you can also type "reboot"
[23:37] <apb1963> no I tried that one too.  lol
[23:37] <apb1963> Also q and x
[23:37] <tomreyn> i just did, but on a uefi system. it worked there.
[23:37] <apb1963> argh... missed the reboot,
[23:37] <apb1963> brb
[23:41] <apb1963> it's an ASRock Version: 970M Pro3 P1.6
[23:41] <apb1963> would you like to know the microcode update?  Now's the time.
[23:42] <tomreyn> not really ;-)
[23:42] <apb1963> 600F20/600017
[23:42] <apb1963> It was handy :)
[23:42] <tomreyn> thats an AM3 board?!
[23:43] <tomreyn> and it's the latest bios available
[23:43] <apb1963> so, I guess it's UEFI since this is the UEFI setup utiity I'm looking at.
[23:43] <apb1963> are you asking or did you already check?
[23:44] <tomreyn> i checked. "32Mb AMI UEFI Legal BIOS with GUI support"
[23:45] <apb1963> So now I will mess with boot order
[23:46] <tomreyn> just unplug the usb connected storage. does it boot then?
[23:48] <apb1963> This is a funky bios.  2 disk were disabled...
[23:50] <tomreyn> probably an early uefi bios, those can be
[23:51] <apb1963> It's an AMI bios... that's all that need be said.  lol
[23:53] <apb1963> Each time from the grub rescue menu I have to hold the power button to get it to reboot
[23:55] <apb1963> Found the disk
[23:55] <apb1963> It's booting
[23:55] <apb1963> though I don't know what yet
[23:56] <apb1963> slow
[23:56] <tomreyn> it'll be windows then ;=
[23:56] <tomreyn> ;)
[23:57] <apb1963> Welcome to Emergency Mode
[23:59] <tomreyn> maybe that's due to your changes to boot order. did you make any?
[23:59] <apb1963> yes
[23:59] <apb1963> I had to to get it to boot
[23:59] <tomreyn> so unplugging the usb connected storage wasn't sufficient to do that?


[22:20] <Hobart> does upstart have any way to single step through scripts?  (that is, something like "About to run script XXXX, hit Enter to continue").  (If the answer is "no", that would help too)
[22:20] <Hobart> Trying to find what program is screwing with me during bootup
[23:32] <broder> not currently, but there's been discussion about doing that for a while
[23:32] <broder> you should be able to do it with a sufficiently clever job with a "start on starting" block
[23:32] <broder> (i.e. just "start on starting", since that will get triggered once for every job)


[03:21] <ubotu> New bug: #218000 in xorg (main) "XRandR Rotation with -intel doesn't work with a composite manager" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/218000
[08:42] <james_w> bryce: hi, you're not still up are you?
[09:16] <ubotu> New bug: #218087 in wacom-tools (main) "replace wacom 0.7.4 with 0.7.8-3  for hardy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/218087
[11:11] <ubotu> New bug: #218122 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (main) "[hardy] Mac mini. Intel 945GM. Random screen flickering. Black screen after that." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/218122
[15:21] <ubotu> New bug: #218214 in linux-restricted-modules-2.6.24 (restricted) "fglrx 8-01 pointer corruption" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/218214
[16:11] <ubotu> New bug: #218229 in xserver-xorg-driver-ati "can't get DRI working" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/218229
[16:32] <bdmurray> bryce: around yet?  I'm in a place where I can test 181121
[16:56] <ubotu> New bug: #218242 in xorg (main) "DG33BU - Intel GMA 3100 - graphics driver problems" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/218242
[17:15] <ubotu> New bug: #216630 in linux-restricted-modules-2.6.24 (restricted) "Ubuntu 8.04 x86_64 2.6.24-16-generic nvidia restricted kernel module fails to load" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/216630
[17:53] <pwnguin> wait
[17:53] <pwnguin> did ubuntu pick up nouveau?
[17:55] <pwnguin> ah, no, update manager just sucks at picking the right changelog to show =/
[18:01] <ubotu> New bug: #218263 in xserver-xorg-input-keyboard (universe) "[Hardy] numlock and capslock leds don't light up on MacBook" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/218263
[20:25] <ubotu> New bug: #218345 in linux-restricted-modules-2.6.24 (restricted) "fglrx 8.4 released today. Any chance for hardy?" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/218345
[21:34] <james_w> bryce: hi, I'd like to ask you about the capplet font issue if you have a minute.
[21:37] <bryce_> ok
[21:39] <james_w> there were a few cairo calls that I dropped as I wasn't sure how to handle them given that upstream changed code in the same area
[21:39] <james_w> it wasn't entirely clear what the aim of the calls were.
[21:39] <bryce_> ok
[21:40] <james_w> also, I noticed that when you forwarded the patches to gnomecc that someone pointed out that your description of the changed font size was the opposite to the change made in the patch
[21:40] <james_w> i.e. you said it made it smaller, when it made it bigger
[21:40] <bryce_> fwiw, I'm sitting directly behind Soeren here at the X conference.
[21:40] <james_w> oh really?
[21:40] <bryce_> yeah that patch may be reversed
[21:40] <james_w> I didn't realise you were at a conference, sorry.
[21:40] <james_w> how is it?
[21:41] <bryce_> pretty good, it just started today.  they went over X server status, and redhat talked about all the things they're doing, including mention of the xrandr gui
[21:41] <james_w> cool
[21:42] <james_w> I'm happy to spend some time on the issue tomorrow, I'd just like to know what the intent of the code was
[21:42] <bryce_> soeren's as quiet in RL as he seems to be in email ;-)  but I'm hoping to chat with him a bit later
[21:42] <james_w> heh
[21:42] <james_w> I can drop the change that increases the font size, but I'm not sure what the cairo calls are trying to do.
[21:43] <james_w> They appear to try to center the text, is this something that will show up with more than one monitor?
[21:43] <bryce_> sure, so with the font patch, I'm surprised it even applies if it's reversed.
[21:43] <james_w> yeah, I'm not sure what happened there.
[21:44] <bryce_> what I was doing to test it was to hack the code so I could override the display name, and type in something really long, "supercalifragilistic foobar 42\"" and see how that displays, then adjusted the font size down
[21:44] <bryce_> with the text centering, I think our patch is no longer needed; iirc upstream also changed the text to center
[21:45] <bryce_> in any case, I just installed the latest code and it looks fine
[21:45] <james_w> ah, ok.
[21:46] <james_w> -    layout_set_font (layout, "Sans Bold 12");
[21:46] <bryce_> in fact, I'd had a much older version installed, and was showing someone, and it messed up my display, so I apt-get install libgnome-desktop-2'd, ran th egui again, and presto, eerything fixed up
[21:46] <james_w> +    layout_set_font (layout, "Sans Bold 16");
[21:46] <james_w> that's the current patch
[21:46] <bryce_> let's just drop it
[21:46] <james_w> excellent, that was the dpi fix I assume
[21:47] <james_w> sure, I'll propose that to seb tomorrow. It's definitely post-RC material
[21:47] <bryce_> no, that's just setting the font of the text inside the brown cairo layout box
[21:47] <bryce_> yup
[21:48] <james_w> I mean the dpi fix was what stopped it breaking your screen
[21:48] <james_w> thanks for your help. Enjoy the rest of the conference.
[21:48] <james_w> When are you back?
[21:49] <seb128_> could also one of you figure if the clone option is supposed to be on by default when there is only one screen?
[21:49] <james_w> hi seb128_
[21:50] <james_w> I can look at it, I think the problem is in -desktop.
[21:50] <seb128_> hey james_w
[22:19] <bryce_> james_w: the conference runs three days, so I'll be back Monday
[22:20] <bryce_> seb128, hah I noticed that too
[22:20] <bryce_> ideally, it would be nice to gray out the clone checkbox if only one monitor is present
[22:21] <bryce_> although if that's done in glade it might be tricky
[22:43] <bryce_> james_w:  are you<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[22:50] <mario_limonciell> hey bryce you around?
[22:52] <bryce_> yeah
[22:53] <mario_limonciell> given that the AMD driver came out finally, any word on whether you are going to try to squeeze it into LRM post RC (particularly due to the fact that aticonfig for 8.04 is fixed)?
[22:54] <mario_limonciell> that's the driver that we are certifying our AMD based systems on, so if not, we'll just be putting it in in the factory
[22:57] <bryce_> right, there was a bug in on that earlier
[22:57] <james_w> bryce: james.westby@
[22:57] <james_w> I'm not sure what the alternate one is
[22:57] <bryce_> james, ok thanks
[22:58] <seb128> bryce_, james_w: should we also try to disable xrandr rotation on ati cards?
[22:59] <seb128> those seem to just break xorg in a way which forces you to restart
[22:59] <bryce_> mario_limonciell: if you've tested it, then I'd be open to pushing it in.  Timo has been doing the last few lrm updates, so I'd want to get his input first.
[23:00] <bryce_> seb128: do you mean based on the chipset or the driver?
[23:00] <mario_limonciell> bryce_, i've been testing earlier releases of it against our hardware (since that's what we are cert'ing on), but I can't speak for the general case on it
[23:01] <seb128> bryce_: no real idea, I didn't try on enough card to know if that's an ati driver issue or specific to some cards
[23:03] <bryce_> mario_limonciell: ah ok, well let's wait until tjaalton can give word on it.  I'm at an X conference at the moment (and only with -intel gfx) so am not in a position to easily package and test.
[23:04] <bryce_> seb128: I think it may be a driver issue.  It fails on all ati hardware I've tested it on.
[23:04] <bryce_> er wait, no it did work on kees' ati
[23:04] <bryce_> so all but one
[23:04] <seb128> kees has a special card apparently
[23:04] <seb128> compiz and xrandr rotation working there ;-)
[23:05] <tjaalton> bryce_: seems that it fixes some issues that are reported, so if the kernel guys / RM is ok with it, so am I
[23:05] <bryce_> tjaalton: ok cool
[23:05] <bryce_> tjaalton: are you in a position to do the upload?
[23:06] <bryce_> seb128: hang on, alex deucher is right next to me, let me ask
[23:07] <tjaalton> bryce_: not before tomorrow, but it's probably post-RC anyway
[23:07] <tjaalton> if ack'ed
[23:08] <bryce_> seb128: ok alex says that rotation is expected to work and he's not aware of bug reports about it, but will take a look if we send it to him
[23:08] <bryce_> tjaalton: right
[23:09] <seb128> bryce_: ok, thanks
[23:09] <bryce_> seb128: meanwhile yeah we should disable rotation.  unfortunately there's no way of detecting which driver is running
[23:10] <bryce_> (I mean, aside from parsing Xorg.0.log, which I have a patch for, but you didn't like it...  *grin*)
[23:10] <tjaalton> mario_limonciell: if you could persuade someone from the kernel team to ack the new fglrx, please :)
[23:10] <seb128> bryce_: right ;-)
[23:10] <mario_limonciell> tjaalton, we've got a call with rtg tomorrow morning.  I'll bring it up
[23:10] <tjaalton> mario_limonciell: cool, thanks
[23:19] <mario_limonciell> tjaalton, do you have a bug number for me to give rtg to reference the ack?
[23:23] <kees> my ati chipset rules.  compiz works and xrandr doesn't crash.  ;)
[23:23] <kees> I just need to go bug alex about the svideo port now
[23:47] <mario_limonciell> kees, If I understand correctly, that is protected by some IP due to macrovision constraints
[23:52] <bryce_> %#@ macrovision
[23:54] <mario_limonciell> it costs an arm and a leg to certify systems for it too
[23:55] <mario_limonciell> but yes, lots #$&* is directed in its general direction
[23:55] <bryce_> :-)
[23:55] <bryce_> mario_limonciell: track @ bug 218345
[23:56] <mario_limonciell> great thanks.
[23:59] <kees> mario_limonciell: seriously?


[07:34] <CyberDomovoy> i have a trouble using bzr to branch on a nfs mount, ("bzr branch ...", $(pwd) is a nfs mounted directory), i get an error saying "Could not acquire lock ... No locks available", googling it told me it is a trouble with nfs locking. But, i have lockd running on both client and server, i tried doing a "mount -o remount,nolock" for my nfs mount, but it tells me "an incorrect mount option was specified" (???). Any idea?
[14:50] <AfC> Can you generate a bundle of an entire branch? I tried -r 0.. . but that didn't work
[14:52] <mathrick> jelmer_ / jelmer__: hi
[14:52] <mathrick> mathrick@hatsumi:/tmp$ bzr get https://github.com/dto/iosketch.git
[14:52] <mathrick> bzr: ERROR: Invalid http response for https://github.com/dto/iosketch.git/info/refs: Unable to handle http code 0
[14:52] <mathrick> any idea what's wrong?
[14:52] <mathrick> git seems pretty happy cloning that repo
[14:56] <jelmer__> mathrick: hi
[14:56] <mgz> I get a 200 from that url with curl, but if I add an Accept-Encoding header I don't get a valid response back
[14:56] <jelmer__> mathrick: when cloning from github, use git://
[14:57] <jelmer__> mathrick: they don't support "dumb" access over http at the moment
[14:57] <mathrick> jelmer__: oh
[14:57] <mathrick> are there different modes of access over HTTP for git?
[14:58] <jelmer__> mathrick: yeah, two
[14:59] <mathrick> odd
[15:00] <mathrick> jelmer__: but speaking of github, I have another odd failure
[15:00] <mathrick> ah, not actually github
[15:00] <mathrick> just git
[15:02] <mathrick> 3623kB     4kB/s - finding revisions to fetch 132 <-- huh, that's a lot of data sent for 132 revs
[15:02] <mathrick> jelmer__: okay, got it
[15:02] <mathrick> mathrick@hatsumi:/tmp$ bzr get http://common-lisp.net/project/parenscript/git/parenscript
[15:02] <mathrick> bzr: ERROR: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'pack-027b9225cdb4a06f422e6321d92328dfb7103b92.pack'
[15:02] <mathrick> that's after the above revision-finding
[15:03] <jelmer__> mathrick: git access over "dumb" http is really inefficient
[15:03] <mathrick> again git seems perfectly happy
[15:03] <mathrick> jelmer__: I see. Well, that's what I got for the URL, so guess can't blame anyone but the author here
[15:04] <mathrick> but I'm more concerned with the fact this thing fails ultimately
[15:05]  * jelmer__ is trying locally
[15:10] <mathrick> jelmer: does it fail for you too?
[15:11] <jelmer> mathrick: it's working so far..  fetching revisions 506/609
[15:11] <mathrick> huh
[15:11] <mathrick> it errors out right as it tries to fetch revisions for me
[15:13] <mathrick> that, or during revision-finding, hard to say
[15:13] <mathrick> jelmer: it might be some outdatedness in my setup, lemme check
[15:14] <mathrick> bzr-git 0.5.0
[15:14] <mathrick> seems to be in my ~/.bazaar/plugins and not distro package
[15:14] <jelmer> mathrick: yeah, that's fairly old
[15:14] <jelmer> mathrick: You might also want to try the daily builds PPA
[15:14] <mathrick> I will, yeah
[15:15] <mathrick> huh
[15:15] <mathrick> now I got 0.5.2 from distro, and it errors out with "not a branch"
[15:15] <AfC> jelmer: is the bzr-git 0.5.2 from Ubuntu Maverick sufficient, or is this one of those "would have been updated if we could convince Canonical to SRU the thing" occasions?
[15:17] <jelmer> AfC: I think it's not really about being able to convince Canonical to accept the SRU, it's more about the effort involved in doing a SRU vs the benefits
[15:18] <jelmer> AfC: SRU's can't really be new upstream releases, and cherrypicking bugfixes is often tricky (and also carries risks)
[15:19] <AfC> jelmer: sure. I guess you know about mere users's frustration at constantly being told "it works in the next (unreleased) release of the distro"
[15:20] <AfC> For me personally your work has always been caught by that. Kinda a shame. (for example, I want almost  8 months without being able to use Bazaar to work on GNOME stuff. It's working now, though, for which I compliment you and the others working on bzr-git!)
[15:20] <jelmer> AfC: Yes, I realize that - I've hit it as well myself.
[15:21] <jelmer> AfC: But this isn't specific to Bazaar, it's specific to bleeding edge code in general - I see the same thing with Samba 4.
[15:21] <jelmer> well, specific to bleeding edge code and the fact that releases happen only every 6 months
[15:21] <mathrick> jelmer: where exactly is the daily build PPA you mentioned?
[15:21] <jelmer> mathrick: https://launchpad.net/~bzr/+archive/daily
[15:22] <AfC> [as a slightly broader theme, Fedora is utterly unusable because no one runs release - developer throw stuff at rawhide without really caring about it, and meanwhile corporate sustains RHEL, but no one is actually trying to live on current and the result is always "wait for the next release"]
[15:22] <AfC> jelmer: right, but if we never get the code [in Ubuntu's terminology, SRU
[15:23] <AfC> jelmer 'ed] then the code will always be bleeding edge :)
[15:23] <AfC> anyway, not meaning to nag
[15:23] <jelmer> AfC: SRU's are fairly heavyweight (for a good reason, we don't want to break existing stable users)
[15:23] <AfC> Yeah, but when shit wholesale doesn't work, then who cares that it's "not broken"?
[15:24] <jelmer> AfC: http support in bzr-git was only added recently anyway - most people use git://
[15:25] <AfC> Of course, we are dealing with this in GNOME land right now - GTK 3.0 is still not out and GNOME 2.26 aka GNOME 3.0 is due out in less than three months. Total dogs breakfast.
[15:25] <mathrick> jelmer: ah, but that doesn't have bzr-git in it, does it now?
[15:26] <mathrick> no, it does
[15:26] <mathrick> it showed something different when I googled
[15:26]  * mathrick confused
[15:29] <jelmer> mathrick: https://launchpad.net/~bzr/+archive/daily lists it for me
[15:29] <mathrick> yeah, it does
[15:32] <mathrick> jelmer: re: SRU, bzr seems to be particularly hard-hit by always being in the "will work in the next release" limbo
[15:32] <mathrick> I'm not quite sure what makes it so prone, but it's always there
[15:34] <jelmer> mathrick: I'm not sure either :-/
[15:34] <mathrick> probably because there's so much tricky interop code (hello, Mr Jelmer sir), which never quite works until it's been bashed at by many people for a long time, which means every time you hit a bug, you're pretty much required to wait or go to the -dev anyway
[15:34]  * jelmer will probably be a bit more involved in the Ubuntu packaging of Bazaar as of January
[15:35] <mathrick> which suggests it'd be actually stabler for end-users if they could get recent packages in stable
[15:35] <jelmer> mathrick: I think if the packages are that error prone we should probably not have them in stable releases at all :-/
[15:36] <mathrick> jelmer: but then they will never get tested and brought up to the real-world quality
[15:36] <mathrick> at some point, the shit has to hit the fan. If you want bzr to talk to git and SVN seamlessly, somebody has to test it in real-world broken scenarios
[15:36] <jelmer> mathrick: Users who are interested can always use the daily builds PPA or backports
[15:37] <jelmer> and that has a much quicker feedback + fix cycle
[15:37] <mathrick> true
[15:37] <jelmer> mathrick: fwiw the clone of the http git repo just succeeded here
[15:37] <mathrick> yeah, it's at 469 / 609 here with PPA
[15:41] <exarkun> Urff.  Negative revision numbers?
[15:41] <exarkun> Not quite what I was going for.
[15:42] <exarkun> How should I extract some (quite well isolated) changes from one branch and put them into another unrelated branch, preserving their history?
[15:42] <exarkun> I thought rebase would work, but it kept too much history.
[15:52] <exarkun> does the remove-revisions plugin do what I want?
[16:00] <mathrick> exarkun: what exactly do you mean by "preserving their history"?
[16:03] <exarkun> There's 11 or 12 revisions, with their own diffs and commit messages and such
[16:03] <exarkun> I should have put them in a different branch than I did
[16:03] <exarkun> I want what I would have gotten if I'd put them in the right branch in the first place
[16:09] <mathrick> exarkun: then probably bzr-fastimport is what you want
[16:10] <exarkun> Thanks
[16:10] <mathrick> it won't preserve the tree equivalence (that is, you won't be able to merge properly before and after), but the commits will look the same
[16:10] <exarkun> sounds like just what I want
[16:14] <mathrick> jelmer: so yes, a PPA bzr-git works fine with that repo, thanks
[16:14] <jelmer> mathrick: great
[16:14] <mathrick> I also need a way to export all revisions from one repo (shared repo, not branch) into another, and move all the branches based in that repo there
[16:15] <mathrick> because it's corrupted and hits me hard, particularly when I touch anything git-related
[16:15] <mathrick> any idea how to do it?
[16:15] <mathrick> I don't mind a bit of programming against bzrlib if that's what it takes
[16:19] <jelmer> mathrick: this is a bzr repo?
[16:20] <mathrick> yes
[16:20] <jelmer> mathrick: how is it corrupted?
[16:20] <mathrick> jelmer: sec, I'll get the errors it throws
[16:22] <exarkun> humph, `bzr: ERROR: Unable to import library "fastimport": No module named fastimport`?  I branched fastimport directly into my ~/.bazaar/plugins/
[16:24] <jelmer> exarkun: do you have the fastimport python module installed?
[16:25] <txdv> is there a standard for the bzr commit message? I know that the first line has to be short, but do i have to break up the subsequent lines up or can i use long long lines?
[16:25] <exarkun> jelmer: All I did was branch fastimport into ~/.bazaar/plugins.  Is there something beyond that I should do?  The README suggests that's intended to be sufficient.
[16:26] <jelmer> exarkun: you need the python-fastimport package or the fastimport module from http://launchpad.net/python-fastimport
[16:26] <jelmer> txdv: it's up to you
[16:26] <exarkun> I see
[16:28] <jelmer> exarkun: I've clarified the error message
[16:29] <exarkun> cool, works now, thanks
[16:38] <txdv> bzr so fucking lacks --amend
[17:07] <exarkun> oh man
[17:08] <exarkun> trying to merge that fast-imported stuff, http://codepad.org/stXoQ9jp
[17:09] <jelmer> exarkun: what are you trying to do?
[17:10] <exarkun> fix one tiny mistake :(
[17:10] <jelmer> exarkun: are you trying to merge into an empty branch?
[17:10] <exarkun> yes
[17:11] <jelmer> exarkun: That doesn't work at the moment - there's an open bug about it. Is there any reason for not pulling?
[17:11] <jelmer> txdv, exarkun: yes, we need better tools for history editing :-/
[17:11] <exarkun> no, I just didn't know there was a special case around empty branches for merging
[17:35] <jelmer> exarkun: it's a bit of an odd situation. hg and git both simply default to a pull in this situation, perhaps that's what we should do too for the moment.
[17:36] <exarkun> jelmer: even refusing to merge would be better than corrupting the target branch :)
[17:36] <exarkun> I don't have an opinion beyond thinking that the current behavior is kinda bad.
[17:36] <mathrick> exarkun: there's no special case really, it just fails because of the nature of the operation
[17:36] <exarkun> mathrick: it's a special case for me.
[17:37] <mathrick> it's that git and hg both silently replace it with pull when possible
[17:37] <mathrick> which bzr doesn't
[17:37] <exarkun> and I have no experience with git or hg in this situation
[17:37] <mathrick> I've seen good arguments against bzr's behaviour
[17:37] <exarkun> so don't think I'm trying to impose another system's behavior on bzr :)
[17:37] <mathrick> exarkun: well, they basically go "oh, I can pull, so I'll just interpret it as a pull request instead of merge"
[17:38] <mathrick> bzr, OTOH, sticks to merge unless you tell it not to with --pull
[17:38] <exarkun> merge and data corruption
[17:38] <exarkun> :)
[17:38] <mathrick> and pull and merge are two different situation. Pull can succeed on an empty tree, merge not really
[17:38] <mathrick> exarkun: sure, it _shouldn't_ corrupt the tree. That is clearly a bug. But it also helps to know that merge on an empty tree is sort of meaningless
[17:39] <mathrick> s/situations/operations/
[17:39] <exarkun> whereas merge on any non-empty tree is not sort of meaningless.  so how is it not a special case?
[17:40] <mathrick> exarkun: because it's not _coded_ to be a special case. It's just an edge condition in which the algorithm fails. So it's the opposite, it fails to special-case the situation it should
[17:40] <exarkun> alright
[17:41] <mathrick> sort of like throwing -1 at sqrt() function that's not prepared to deal with negative numbers
[19:08] <mathrick> jelmer: sorry, I got completely sidetracked there, lemme get the error
[19:30] <mathrick> jelmer: it doesn't seem to error out in the same way as before so far, but one of the things I get is that when I do "bzr get git://github.com/dto/iosketch.git", I get "updating git map" about 20 times
[19:31] <mathrick> some of them are like 1/2, some 1/41, and now one 1/1245
[19:31] <jelmer> mathrick: that's because of the repository you're cloning into
[21:54] <peitschie> hi everyone :)
[23:16] <RenatoSilva> Ursinha-afk: help me please