[14:58] <falcojr> cjp256: I noticed your most recent PR references LP: #1958280. Is this the same issue as represented in the salesforce case, or is this a different issue?
[15:00] <cjp256> facojr: yeah i just opened it up as a draft to discuss as a workaround
[15:09] <cjp256> falcojr: 18.04 / 20.04 / 22.04 are much happier without setting the names, just need to think through whether it is the right thing to do, even if temporary
[15:23] <falcojr> cjp256: so the name can be unpredictable between boots? I'm not sure that'd be any better
[15:27] <waldi> urgs, why does it emit "set-name" in the first place?
[15:29] <waldi> udev does not generate a predictable name for azure hv network devices. so every bets are off anyway
[15:35] <cjp256> it emits it so there is a more predictable/consistent name, but it tends to cause some name thrashing on boot which sometimes leads to undesirable behavior with networkd
[16:22] <holmanb> cjp256: I'm getting up to speed on the issue. Just curious,do you know if there there is an eta on getting hv udev devices predictable?
[16:35] <cjp256> holmanb: in which way?
[16:37] <holmanb> This is a workaround for hv names being unpredictable, but they should be predictable, right?
[16:40] <cjp256> i ask because there are multiple aspects of this.  (1) host ordering, or specifically guest enumeration and (2) imds configuration ordering which we rely on for netplan generation.  we do have work slated to guarantee consistent ordering in IMDS to (today the only guarantee is that primary is first).  there may be something else that I'm not aware of at lower levels?
[16:44] <holmanb> cjp256: Thanks for the additional context, I didn't have anything else in mind. I was wondering specifically about (1) - thanks
[16:47] <cjp256> from what i've seen host ordering is reliably consistent, the problem is that IMDS is not.   and we need them both to be consistent and matching to avoid the renames
[16:48] <cjp256> though I think the failures due to renames need to be addressed regardless
[18:30] <blackboxsw> cjp256: this nic rename discussion and your active PR needs more understanding on our side I think. I think we need to spend a bit of time to fully understand the implications there. I'd like to try to address this after the 22.3 release if that is okay with you.
[18:31] <blackboxsw> I'd like to dig into the netplan component in the handling of the network config we write to understand if we just need something netplan-side instead
[18:32] <blackboxsw> no reason for cloud-init to jump through hoops if netplan is doing something undesireable with systemd
[18:37] <cjp256> blackboxsw: agreed, not a good idea to try to drop something like this in for 22.3 at the last minute :D
[18:37] <cjp256> probably should have stated that up front, sorry
[18:39] <cjp256> i think 1672 would be fine which is why i broke it out, but also not required
[18:40] <blackboxsw> all good cjp256. we didn't think this was something to shoe-horn in, but wanted to set expectations that it'll be priority, but just not this week's release
[19:51] <oramirite> I have a bash tool that validates cloud config files as one of it's steps, and it seems like an upstream change recently broke things in two ways. I am trying to figure out where to find those upstream changes to assess what to fix on my end. The first issue, which I fixed, was that 'cloud-init devel schema' seems to have moved to 'cloud-init
[19:51] <oramirite> schema', because the documentation says not to script using devel commands (fair). Fixed that, but now the validation of a cloud config file I've used for years fails with the following error: "Cloud config schema errors: users.0: {<section values as a dict>} is not valid under any of the given schemas"
[19:51] <oramirite> Here are the changes I make to my config to get the validation working again. I'm very confused as to why the uid, groups and sudo fields don't seem to work anymore. As you can see form this link, commenting out all 3 fixes the issue. Adding any of them back in produces the validation error again:
[19:51] <oramirite> https://gist.github.com/oramirite/b9d19d0a05fa878044077c039654a7f7
[19:52] <oramirite> Hoping someone can point me in the right direction to figure out what changed and why this validation is failing. I'm on Arch Linux.
[19:52] <blackboxsw> oramirite: great you are using cloud-init schema to validate.... let's take a look
[19:52] <blackboxsw> thx for the ping
[19:52] <oramirite> of course, thanks!
[19:54] <oramirite> Really hard to say when this started occurring btw, because I've come back to this script after about 3-4 months, and it's intended to be used from a live USB. So the most recent live media I built has this issue, hard to say exactly which version between now and 4 months ago is causing this.
[19:55] <blackboxsw> oramirite: so, your groups value is good, just your sudo needs to be a string instead of a list and uid needs to be an integer instead of a string
[19:56] <blackboxsw> oramirite: this schema changed to start being more strict in general, currently it only produces warnings in logs, but eventually our schema validation will be strict and result in errors. probably version 23.2 or later
[19:57] <oramirite> Okay so in theory this config will probably still work, the schema command is just warning me ahead of time basically?
[19:57] <blackboxsw> oramirite: https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/blob/main/cloudinit/config/schemas/schema-cloud-config-v1.json#L159 is where the schema is defined for sudo
[19:57] <oramirite> I am in a little bit of a bind at the moment in that I need to use my script to deploy a system, but I don't know if my whole toolchain is now broken yet ;P
[19:57] <blackboxsw> oramirite: right, we still let those values pass currently as we want to give a good lead  time before hard erroring on non-stict values
[19:57] <oramirite> very fair
[19:58] <blackboxsw> *non-strict* invalid schema values
[19:58] <oramirite> I figured all of this, good to have confirmation :)
[19:58] <oramirite> Is the documentation updated to reflect any of this yet?
[19:58] <oramirite> No worries if not, I think I was looking for confirmation there first is all and came up short
[19:59] <oramirite> ....wait, I think it totally is. Lol.
[20:00] <blackboxsw> oramirite: good pt, the schema cli is documented in the right place https://cloudinit.readthedocs.io/en/latest/topics/cli.html?highlight=schema#schema but not that we are warning and permissive on schema errors at the moment
[20:00] <blackboxsw> we probably could add a snippet in the tutorial about validating your cloud-init launch here https://cloudinit.readthedocs.io/en/latest/topics/tutorial.html
[20:00] <oramirite> https://cloudinit.readthedocs.io/en/latest/topics/modules.html#users-and-groups
[20:01] <blackboxsw> ohh right, yes all schema docs are rendered if that's what you were asking
[20:01] <oramirite> This is absolutely up to date, so I guess I was just brain farting when checking ha
[20:01] <oramirite> or just assumed what I had was fine
[20:01] <blackboxsw> complete with deprecation info "uid: (integer) The user’s ID. Default is next available value. DEPRECATED: The use of string type will be dropped after April 2027. Use an integer instead."
[20:02] <blackboxsw> all good. we like the feedback
[20:06] <blackboxsw> oramirite: note if you use VScode for anything as a dev platform, that you can manually try creating #cloud-config userdata by creating a file named `cloudconfig.yaml` or `*.cloudconfig.yaml` It'll then give tooltips on value types etc.
[20:07] <blackboxsw> oramirite: also https://www.jsonschemavalidator.net/ allows you to select schema type "cloud-init: cloud-config userdata JSON schema" to validate online


[00:21] <bluesabre> flocculant: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-locker/+bug/1755033 might be related
[00:34] <Unit193> xfce4-settings 4.12.2-1 uploaded by Yves-Alexis Perez (corsac)
[03:16] <flocculant> bluesabre: could be
[03:17] <flocculant> bluesabre: did you see that bluez service issue on the live session xsession-errors too ?
[04:00] <flocculant> bluesabre: can't see similar in looby lou's xsession-errors
[05:38] <donofrio> anyone know how to resolve this https://apaste.info/Akyj
[05:44] <Unit193> donofrio: Not offhand, no.  Can't say I've ever run into it.  You may wish to ask #ubuntu or #ubuntu+1 though.
[05:46] <donofrio> I am....it looks like this "anyone know how I can get add-repo working I keep getting this gpg message - https://apaste.info/yb2I"
[05:49] <Unit193> While important to fix, I think I'd just recv the key, export ascii armored, drop that in in the trust db, and move on.
[05:50] <donofrio> hu?
[05:59] <Unit193> Basically, gpg --recv-keys 07D44A5424C7C12A4BAB1E80EB563F93142986CE && gpg --armor --export 07D44A5424C7C12A4BAB1E80EB563F93142986CE > newkey.asc && sudo cp newkey.asc /etc/apt/trusted.gpg.d/xubuntu-dev.asc
[06:10] <donofrio> Unit193, tried but no furthor - https://apaste.info/7k03
[06:13] <donofrio> eek now my updates won't update - https://apaste.info/4
[06:13] <donofrio> wyb
[06:13] <donofrio> https://apaste.info/4Wyd
[06:15] <flocculant> ummm - wrong paste I guess
[06:15] <flocculant> donofrio: not that I'd be able to help - but is on your installed in windows thing?
[06:15] <Unit193> donofrio: You'll have to kill dirmngr first in that case, it's trying to use root's.
[06:15] <donofrio> 4Wyb not d
[06:15] <Unit193> Just remove that key and updates will work again.
[06:15] <donofrio> ohok
[06:17] <donofrio> still ipc call failed even when hup'ed from root and started by donofrio
[06:17] <Unit193> I think your dirmngr is messed up. :P
[06:18] <donofrio> howto fix?
[06:18] <donofrio> flocculant, yes http://www.tinyurl.com/donofrio1804
[06:20] <donofrio> trying to get xfwm4.13
[06:22] <donofrio> does remove-apt-reposity exits or what file to edit to get updates working again?
[06:24] <Unit193> donofrio: rm /etc/apt/trusted.gpg.d/xubuntu-dev.asc
[06:26] <donofrio> no asc file found only ubuntu-keyrimg-2013-archive.gpg and ubuntu-keyring-2012-cdimage.gpg
[06:27] <donofrio> keyring-2012 I meant
[06:27] <donofrio> its late for me sorry for mistypin
[07:09] <donofrio> Unit193, still not working ;( https://apaste.info/kKn0
[07:15] <Unit193> Yes, you said the key had broken it, that can happen when it's malformed.  It was not to solve the missing key issue.
[07:15] <Unit193> You're going to have to fix dirmngr or some other way get the key.
[07:20] <donofrio> Unit193, I guess first on my list is get updates "updating again" then I'll whack at dirmngr this afternoon
[07:20] <donofrio> but how do I repair my system so updates flow again
[07:21] <Unit193> donofrio: apt-get update is complaining, you can ignore that.  But, remove the sources file in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/
[07:22] <donofrio> expermental is not in sources
[07:22] <Unit193> The specific one*
[07:23] <donofrio> i see now
[07:23] <donofrio> .d my bad
[07:25] <donofrio> I have my own python now - neat - updaing and I see python3-louis (spelling wrong I'm lewis lol)
[07:39] <donofrio> thank you for helping me 2nite/this  morning off to get three hours sleep before work....
[07:42] <Unit193> Heh, nearly 4 am for me too. :)
[07:43] <Unit193> ochosi: xfpm plugin with no battery just says 'computer'
[07:43] <Unit193> (In bold)
[09:04] <ochosi> Unit193: yup, that's known. what else would you let it say?
[09:04] <ochosi> at least in the tooltip, that's what it should say
[09:05] <Unit193> Not bold, 'no battery'?
[09:44] <knome> ochosi, mmk. i'll see if i have time
[12:27] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [greybird] r547 lightdm-gtk-greeter: Simplify theming... (by Simon Steinbeiß)
[12:27] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [greybird] r548 Include Gtk3 window decoration icons in Greybird (Fixes #170... (by Simon Steinbeiß)
[19:37] <ochosi> knome: shouldn't be too hard, maybe creating something in svg first and then tweaking the png would be sufficient (maybe even without much tweaking)
[19:38] <knome> yep
[19:52] <Used2BTracker5> A beginners question again if I may: I'm testing Xubuntu 18.04. I have found I can report bugs/observations here, at launchpad, or by way of<EMAIL_ADDRESS>What's your preferred way/place to report bugs? Launchpad<EMAIL_ADDRESS>Here?
[19:53] <ochosi> the most persistent way is certainly bugreports (my personal opinion)
[19:53] <ochosi> mailinglists are really not the right medium
[19:53] <ochosi> if you think immediate feedback is possible and necessary, irc is ok too
[19:54] <ochosi> depends on whether you're already in a discussion with someone here, then it's easy to mention stuff
[19:54] <Used2BTracker5> BUgreports being launchpad then?
[20:17] <ochosi> Used2BTracker5: depends, if you know something is an upstream issue you can report it on bugs.xfce.org
[20:18] <ochosi> if it's not xfce related maybe launchpad is still the right choice
[20:18] <ochosi> linking it to our bugs blueprint may also be helpful
[20:25] <Used2BTracker5> ochosi, thanks for the answers. I don't think I am able (yet) to decide if something is an upstream issue, or not. I didn't know about bugs.xfce.org; I'll have a look over there.
[20:25] <ochosi> what kind of issues have you identified so far?
[20:28] <Used2BTracker5> mate-calc crash; sgt puzzles not translated; "weird" messages when starting update-manager from cli; menulibre invalid desktop files
[20:28] <ochosi> right, none of those are upstream xfce issues
[20:29] <Used2BTracker5> I have reported these on launchpad
[20:30] <ochosi> menulibre is maintained by bluesabre
[20:31] <ochosi> mate-calc would probably go to the mate team directly
[20:31] <ochosi> sgt puzzles i'm not sure about
[20:31] <Used2BTracker5> SGT Puzzles
[20:31] <Used2BTracker5> © 2016-2017 Sean Davis
[20:33] <Unit193> Used2BTracker5: One normally wouldn't report bugs in here, but sometimes can be useful to talk or ask about something before filing the bug.
[20:34] <Used2BTracker5> ochosi, you say "mate-calc would probably go to the mate team directly": you mean: when I reported it on launchpad the bugreport went automatically to the dev-team
[20:34] <ochosi> yeah, that sounds likely
[20:34] <ochosi> at least the ubuntu mate team
[20:34] <ochosi> not sure where mate tracks issues, probably github or something
[20:35] <Unit193> Github.
[20:36] <ochosi> but anyway, crashes with an application can also be distro specific
[20:36] <ochosi> so it's definitely not wrong to start reporting something on LP
[20:36] <Used2BTracker5> So, trying to help to test Xubuntu 18.04, I need to know where teams/people track their issues, and I have to be able to sort of understand about upstream?
[20:37] <ochosi> to some extent you'll learn that naturally
[20:37] <ochosi> step by step
[20:37] <Used2BTracker5> What's the best way to find out where to report issues for a specific programme?
[20:41] <Used2BTracker5> I don't want to bother you guys too much, but I also don't want to report issues at the wrong place. No point in reporting issues that will never be picked up by the right team.
[20:42] <ochosi> you can always check where the upstream source is maintained, the bugtracker is usually not far from there ;)
[20:43] <Used2BTracker5> ochosi, "linking it to our bugs blueprint": how/where do I do that?
[20:43] <ochosi> this is our roadmap for bionic: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-b-roadmap
[20:43] <ochosi> you can see all blueprints in the dependency tree section
[20:43] <ochosi> that includes the xubuntu-b-bugs blueprint
[20:44] <ochosi> if you go to that blueprint, you can use the "Link a bug report" button to connect LP bugreports
[20:44] <Unit193> I'll note that if you use `ubuntu-bug`, it attaches a lot of debug info (including crash reports at times.) and files on LP.
[20:45] <Used2BTracker5> ochosi, thanks! I have added that link to my favorites
[20:48] <Used2BTracker5> I'll head over there now. Thanks again. Testing what I thought to be one entity "Xubuntu", proves to be a whole different can full of worms :-) I'm not English so this may not make sense to you... still
[21:05] <willem> I used to be "Used2BTracker5", and I just managed to change my nick to "willem" and claim that as mine, which is nice because, well, it's my name :-)  Thanks krytarik.
[21:06] <krytarik> You are welcome. :)
[21:08] <willem> (Irc is a overwhelming experience; I'll have a cup of tea and a lie down for now...)
[21:08] <flocculant> willem: hi :) I see that ochosi and Unit193 have explained bugs a bit to you - cool
[21:08] <Unit193> All ochosi, not me.
[21:09] <flocculant> :)
[21:11] <willem> yes, I've been bugging them about bugs, and they've been patient and understanding. :-)
[21:11] <willem> Long way to go yet.
[21:11] <willem> For me, that is
[21:11] <willem> hanks
[21:11] <willem> Thanks
[21:11] <flocculant> willem: slow but sure is the way :)
[21:12] <Unit193> ochosi: To be clear btw, you told me to look, I finally updated the netbook to Bionic thus got the new xfpm, that's something that stood out.  If it's not of interest to you, well...Then there's that. :P
[21:23] <willem> I'll be off for now, dreaming of bugs and places where not to report them. :-)
[21:24] <flocculant> night willem
[21:40] <ochosi> Unit193: sry, but what stood out?
[21:40] <ochosi> ah
[21:40] <ochosi> the "Computer" tooltip


[00:00] <knome> Bug #925801
[00:00] <pjotter> I use the standard Xubuntu Software thing. I did enable "http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu partner" in Sources. Maybe I shouldn't have done that?
[00:00] <knome> that's not the problem
[00:01] <pjotter> ok
[00:01] <knome> the problem exists in the recommends of the alacarte package
[00:01] <pjotter> So everything that comes through teh Software centre should be ok, then?
[00:01] <knome> that's a known bug, or whatever it should be called :)
[00:01] <knome> yeah. they should be fine, and shouldn't have too big surprises
[00:01] <knome> except alacarte....
[00:01] <pjotter> Ofcourse..
[00:02] <pjotter> I seem to be a bug magnet.
[00:02] <knome> you should start filing bugs then ;)
[00:02] <pjotter> maybe :)
[00:02] <knome> easier to fix them if we know about them
[00:03] <pjotter> I haven't done it so far. Most oif the bugs I have encountered had already been filed.
[00:03] <knome> yup :) you can always mark that they affect you too, so they'll get more "heat"
[00:04] <knome> or add comments, if you think you can add something to help fixing it
[00:04] <pjotter> Yeah, I probably should do that.
[00:04] <knome> thanks, that would help us a lot :)
[00:05] <pjotter> I also installed Compiz. I reckon that will also install a lot of gnome stuff?
[00:05] <knome> i'm not so sure, but i wouldn't be too worried if it installed some. :)
[00:06] <pjotter> Not that I am that much of a fan of Compiz. But I just wanted to see if the videodriver, I compiled and installed worked.
[00:08] <pjotter> That is not really a bug. But When I do a clean install of Xubuntu and it suggest the prop. driver, the thing just crashes. Appearently I have the dreaded ATI gfxcard that just don't work very well with Ubuntu. So I had to install it manually. And that one worked fine. But I guess that sort of thing gets corrected in the new version?
[00:09] <knome> hmm.
[00:09] <knome> if you file a bug, maybe... :)
[00:09] <pjotter> I lokked. It was already filed :)
[00:09] <pjotter> looked.
[00:09] <knome> hih, okay. then maybe :)
[00:12] <pjotter> But anyway. I am very happy with Xubuntu. It is just the thing for me. Not too fancy. Just a lean and clean OS. Still with an "oldschool" interface that has a BROWSABLE MENU! :D
[00:16] <pjotter> Why is LXMenuEditor not in the default repo's?
[00:17] <knome> probably so new
[00:17] <pjotter> ok
[00:23] <pjotter> Ok, thanks you all for you help! I'm off to bed. Tomorrow I'll take a look at the LXMenuEditor.
[00:24] <pjotter> O dear, what awfull spelling! Sorry for that! I must really go to bed.
[00:26] <knome> :)
[00:27] <knome> night pjotter
[00:56] <srtango> hi
[00:56] <knome> hey
[00:57] <srtango> this irc its a little quiet
[00:57] <srtango> so
[00:57] <srtango> i come here
[00:57] <srtango> because
[00:57] <srtango> i need help
[00:57] <srtango> its something about xfce
[00:57] <srtango> and compiz
[00:58] <bazhang> !enter
[00:58] <srtango> ok
[01:00] <srtango> i got the problem, when i start compiz with compiz button i use for a few minutes and more late my system get freeze, i got geforce 8200 onboard with the recomended driver.
[01:01] <Unit193> Normally they recommend compiz --replace, but I've not used it
[01:01] <srtango> oks
[01:01] <srtango> i try this command but i dont find solutions
[01:04] <bazhang> try #compiz on freenode here as well
[01:05] <srtango> ahhh. ok, i come here because here are users that use compiz with xfce, but thanks i gonna find the answer
[01:06] <srtango> bye
[01:37] <srtango> hi or hola
[01:37] <knome> hello
[02:05] <needhelp23231> hi everyone
[02:06] <knome> hey
[02:06] <needhelp23231> can anyone help me ?
[02:06] <knome> !ask
[02:06] <needhelp23231> XD
[02:06] <needhelp23231> im trying to install openssh-server but it seems i fait at it
[02:06] <needhelp23231> fail*
[02:07] <knome> fail how? what's the error message? (if it's multiline, use pastebin)
[02:08] <needhelp23231> ok sec
[02:08] <Unit193> paste.ubuntu.com
[02:09] <needhelp23231> dang
[02:09] <needhelp23231> my wireless mouse doesnt work now
[02:09] <needhelp23231> lol sec
[02:10] <Unit193> You can also look at https://help.ubuntu.com/11.04/serverguide/C/openssh-server.html
[02:12] <needhelp23231> knome: http://paste.ubuntu.com/827194/
[02:14] <Unit193> Did you run   sudo apt-get update   before?
[02:14] <needhelp23231> few times
[02:15] <needhelp23231> Unit193: when i run update it says this : http://paste.ubuntu.com/827199/
[02:17] <needhelp23231> Unit193: its the two last lines
[02:18] <Unit193> Are you using lucid?
[02:18] <Unit193> And where did that little knome go...
[02:19] <knome> chatting in offtopic
[02:19] <needhelp23231> Unit193: u here ? i got another question too :D
[02:19] <knome> needhelp23231, sudo apt-get check ?
[02:20] <needhelp23231> knome: u?
[02:20] <knome> needhelp23231, try that command in termianl
[02:20] <knome> *terminal
[02:21] <needhelp23323> knome Unit193  you still here ? i got d/c
[02:22] <knome> yes, we are here
[02:22] <Unit193> However, I am not
[02:22] <knome> can you pastebin the complete output of 'sudo apt-get check'?
[02:22] <needhelp23323> i did aupdate
[02:22] <needhelp23323> and i got this
[02:22] <needhelp23323> Unit193: when i run update it says this : ahttp://paste.ubuntu.com/827199/
[02:23] <needhelp23323> http://paste.ubuntu.com/827199/
[02:23] <knome> needhelp23323, please run 'sudo apt-get check'. that will diagnose the problem
[02:23] <needhelp23323> knome: ok i runned it
[02:23] <Unit193> Yes, you did say that, I asked if you were running lucid and knome said "sudo apt-get check ?" (then try runnning in term)
[02:23] <needhelp23323> and it didnt output an error
[02:24] <knome> have you enabled a PPA for openssh-server?
[02:24] <needhelp23323> knome: i got another question, what would be a faster desktop for my netbook (xubuntu netbook edition) GNOME or ubuntu netbook edition desktop ?
[02:25] <knome> probably xubuntu, but there is no "xubuntu netbook edition".
[02:25] <needhelp23323> idk it says so
[02:25] <needhelp23323> forgive me if im wrong , kinda new to linux
[02:25] <knome> no problem, there just isn't a "netbook version" of xubuntu
[02:26] <needhelp23323> ok then its ubuntu netbook edition
[02:26] <needhelp23323> so what would be faster? gnome or UNE desktop ?
[02:26] <needhelp23323> cuz its really weak netbook
[02:26] <needhelp23323> it has 1.6ghz cpu and 1gb ram
[02:26] <knome> i have no idea, haven't used either. UNE is probably better, since the visuals are designed for netbooks.
[02:27] <knome> apart from that, i can't help you in that issue
[02:27] <needhelp23323> k
[02:27] <needhelp23323> what about the ssh server ?
[02:28] <needhelp23323> i installed linux ubuntu edition because when i bought this netbook they installed windows7 on it
[02:28] <needhelp23323> and it was reallly sloww
[02:28] <needhelp23323> now its not TOO slow
[02:28] <knome> okay first of all, slow down
[02:28] <knome> and listen to what i'm asking :)
[02:28] <knome> did you enable a PPA for openssh-server ?
[02:29] <needhelp23323> idk whats that PPA
[02:29] <needhelp23323> lol
[02:29] <knome> your apt-get is telling it's unable to load a key for a PPA
[02:30] <knome> have you edited /etc/apt/sources.list manually?
[02:30] <needhelp23323> i only added the warmux game into it
[02:30] <knome> manually?
[02:31] <needhelp23323> from the ubuntu software center
[02:31] <knome> okay
[02:32] <needhelp23323> u want me to give u the output of 'sudo cat /etc/apt/sources.list' ?
[02:33] <knome> sure, that would be helpful :)
[02:33] <needhelp23323> http://paste.ubuntu.com/827207/
[02:34] <knome> okay...
[02:34] <knome> weird
[02:34] <needhelp23323> ?
[02:35] <knome> that ppa comes from somewhere else
[02:35] <Unit193> /etc/apt/sources.list.d/
[02:36] <needhelp23323> Unit193: is a directory
[02:36] <needhelp23323> cant use 'cat' on it
[02:36] <Unit193> I know that, that's why I put a slash after :P
[02:38] <needhelp23323> knome: http://paste.ubuntu.com/827208/
[02:39] <knome> i'm still wondering how those can fail the openssh-server installation
[02:39] <needhelp23323> yeah this is weird :(
[02:39] <needhelp23323> i guess
[02:40] <knome> you can try commenting out the ppa's in those .list files
[02:40] <knome> and trying update again
[02:40] <knome> commenting out == add a # in start of every line with a URL
[02:41] <needhelp23323> should i just re-install ubuntu
[02:41] <knome> if you end up in the same situation, that doesn't help much, does it?
[02:42] <needhelp23323> idk how to comment a ppa list =\
[02:42] <knome> open the .list -files in a text editor
[02:42] <knome> and add a # in the beginning of every line with a URL
[02:42] <needhelp23323> you mean the /erc/apt/sources.list ?
[02:44] <knome> no
[02:44] <knome> the files in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/
[02:44] <needhelp23323> how do i exit the 'nano' editor
[02:44] <knome> ctrl+o to save, ctrl+x to exit
[02:45] <knome> (ctrl+o and enter)
[02:45] <needhelp23323> im trying to do it
[02:45] <needhelp23323> it wont exit
[02:46] <knome> ctrl+o and it asks where to save
[02:46] <knome> then press enter
[02:47] <knome> then ctrl+x to exit
[02:47] <knome> note that you should run with 'sudo nano ...'
[02:47] <needhelp23323> nope it doesnt ask me anything
[02:47] <needhelp23323> maybe because i have another language installed in my ubuntu
[02:47] <knome> you can edit the files with any other editor as well
[02:47] <needhelp23323> it just output a letter from that language
[02:47] <knome> eg 'sudo gedit ...'
[02:48] <Unit193> gksudo gedit, or gksudo leafpad
[02:49] <needhelp23323> knome: those files in the directory http://paste.ubuntu.com/827208/ , theyre the files of the game 'warmux' and the browser 'chrome' nope ?
[02:50] <knome> yes, but those seem to be the problem, or at least we're ruling out the probability they are
[02:51] <needhelp23323> knome: so i should only edit the files with the .list extesion or the .save too ?
[02:52] <knome> only .list
[02:52] <needhelp23323> after we check it should i un-comment em ?
[02:53] <needhelp23323> k i commented 'em
[02:53] <knome> if they are not the problem, yes, you can then uncomment them
[02:53] <knome> now try 'sudo apt-get update' and then installing openssh-server
[02:53] <ucbishop> i was wondering if anyone could help me.  im trying to get a wireless modem/router to dial into my pc.
[02:54] <needhelp23323> k i commented 'em, now what should i do ?
[02:54] <ucbishop> i have read the documentation, but it does not work.
[02:54] <knome> needhelp23323, run 'sudo apt-get update' and then try installing openssh-server again, as i said
[02:54] <needhelp23323> oh i missed what u said
[02:55] <needhelp23323> sorry
[02:55] <needhelp23323> this client is un-colorful
[02:55] <needhelp23323> knome: i still cant install openssh-server
[02:56] <needhelp23323> same error
[02:56] <knome> can you pastebin the complete error?
[02:56] <needhelp23323> yup
[02:56] <needhelp23323> http://paste.ubuntu.com/827194/
[02:57] <needhelp23323> i think it tells me to install openssh-client first ?
[02:57] <needhelp23323> oh it says broken packages
[02:58] <needhelp23323> weird
[02:59] <knome> hmh. you could of course try to install openssh-client first...
[02:59] <needhelp23323> it wont be a waste of HDD space ?
[03:00] <knome> no, i think that will be installed anyway
[03:00] <knome> that should be installed by default though, i think...
[03:00] <needhelp23323> ok when i run the install command itsays openssh-client is already the newest version
[03:01] <knome> right.
[03:01] <knome> sudo apt-get upgrade?
[03:01] <needhelp23323> 0upgraded 0 newly installed
[03:02] <knome> i'm out of ideas for now...
[03:02] <knome> Unit193, ?
[03:02] <needhelp23323> :(
[03:04] <Unit193> Try: sudo dpkg --configure -a; sudo apt-get update; sudo apt-get clean
[03:04] <needhelp23323> what it does ?
[03:05] <Unit193> After that, try upgrade again
[03:05] <knome> tries to fix the broken packages
[03:05] <Unit193> knome: Also, try switching him from that local repo to another one
[03:05] <knome> or actually, just reconfigure everything :)
[03:05] <knome> it's 5am o.o
[03:05] <knome> and i need to wake up in 6 hours..
[03:05] <knome> :D
[03:06] <needhelp23323> Unit193: k i done all
[03:06] <needhelp23323> now what?
[03:07] <mbrown9412> awesome, it worked. do you guys know what the minimum clock speed is for 11.10?
[03:07] <needhelp23323> knome: where u from ?
[03:07] <knome> needhelp23323, finland
[03:07] <needhelp23323> weird , its 5am here too
[03:07] <knome> mbrown9412, it's one minute in minute
[03:07] <mbrown9412> well, processor speed
[03:08] <Unit193> needhelp23323: That help any?
[03:08] <mbrown9412> mhz
[03:08] <knome> just kidding;)
[03:08] <needhelp23323> Unit193: nope
[03:08] <mbrown9412> brain fart on the term
[03:08] <mbrown9412> : D
[03:08] <knome> mbrown9412, probably something more than 500
[03:08] <mbrown9412> i have an old emac, and its too slow to even start
[03:09] <needhelp23323> knome: how come we have the same time zone lol
[03:09] <mbrown9412> so im going to try changing the variable with open frameworko
[03:09] <mbrown9412> firmware
[03:09] <knome> needhelp23323, that happens :)
[03:09] <mbrown9412> emac is 1ghz, so more than that?
[03:10] <needhelp23323> knome: maybe u lied Xd cause our countries very far
[03:10] <needhelp23323> :P
[03:10] <knome> mbrown9412, i think that should work :)
[03:11] <knome> needhelp23323, err. countries north/south from each other can share the timezone.
[03:11] <mbrown9412> well it at least thinks 1 is too slow. it prints "LOAD-SIZE is too small"
[03:11] <knome> mbrown9412, hmmh.
[03:11] <Unit193> Welp, you can change your sources location, could be out of sync
[03:11] <Unit193> knome: You want to help him do that? :P
[03:12] <knome> i'm still trying to get to bed :)
[03:13] <Unit193> !chrepo |Right one? :P
[03:13] <needhelp23323> Unit193 , knome  thats weird because its fresh ubuntu , just installed few hours ago
[03:14] <mbrown9412> a la: http://blandname.com/2008/07/29/install-mac-os-x-leopard-on-a-g4-800mhz-quicksilver/
[03:16] <knome> needhelp23323, just for future reference, this is the *Xubuntu* support channel
[03:16] <knome> needhelp23323, there is more people at #ubuntu
[03:16] <knome> needhelp23323, and that's the correct channel for *Ubuntu* support
[03:17] <needhelp23323> i know
[03:17] <needhelp23323> but i cant send messages to this channel
[03:17] <needhelp23323> it says : cannot send : #ubuntu
[03:21] <holstein> needhelp23323: quit and rejoin the channel... i dont see you in there
[03:23] <needhelp23323> holstein: it wont let me enter
[03:23] <knome> needhelp23323, that's because you are banned from the channel
[03:23] <holstein> yeah... that'll do it
[03:23] <needhelp23323> why?
[03:24] <knome> needhelp23323, please join #ubuntu-ops
[05:27] <blastedx> hi guys, I'm really new to Ubuntu and IRC, so sorry if I'm doing this wrong
[05:27] <blastedx> but I could use a little help with something if someone doesn't mind
[05:27] <holstein> blastedx: no worries.. just go ahead and ask :)
[05:27] <blastedx> ok cool, thanks lol
[05:28] <blastedx> i've just installed Xubuntu a couple hours ago and got it all working
[05:28] <blastedx> i had some trouble with the wifi and eventually found some helpful instructions but...
[05:28] <blastedx> I need to reinstall the driver everytime i log on
[05:28] <blastedx> is that normal for ubuntu?
[05:30] <holstein> well, its not normal for what i have encountered with the hardware im using.. how did you install what driver for what device on what machine running what verion of xubuntu?
[05:32] <blastedx> Ok, I've got a home built Frankenputer, with a Gigabyte board the g31m-es2l, my WiFi adapter is a Linksys AE1000 and I found a driver for it and some install instructions, one sec and I'll get the file name of the driver and I'll copy the instructions i followed
[05:33] <blastedx> Here is the driver, it came as a zip file     2010_0915_RT3572_Linux_STA_v<IP_ADDRESS>
[05:33] <holstein> yeah, i need to see the link
[05:33] <blastedx> and the 3 commands I entered to use it   make
[05:33] <blastedx> sudo make install
[05:33] <blastedx> sudo modprobe rt3572sta
[05:33] <holstein> if you have it
[05:34] <blastedx> oh the link, um I dont have it, i DL'd it with my other PC
[05:35] <holstein> ok...
[05:35] <holstein> im not sure where you got that driver though.. there should be a readme somewhere
[05:35] <holstein> you can script anything you need at startup though
[05:35] <blastedx> i guess it's a repack or something, i really know nothing at all about ubuntu lol
[05:36] <holstein> i say, if you are new, just deal with it for a bit, and something will materialize for you
[05:36] <blastedx> haha probably pretty decent advice actually
[05:36] <blastedx> is everything done with these "sudo" commands?
[05:36] <holstein> blastedx: sudo allows you to run things as root pretty much
[05:37] <holstein> root is allowed to do anything
[05:37] <holstein> thats what i personally really like about *nix's like linux and *buntu
[05:37] <blastedx> oh i get it, i made my user an admin user though, shouldn;t that do the same thing?
[05:37] <holstein> thats one place where the security we always talk about really shines
[05:38] <holstein> blastedx: how did you make your user an admin?
[05:38] <holstein> you mean a sudoer?
[05:38] <blastedx> Uh... 1 sec, i gotta go retrace my steps lol, unfamiliar territory  :)
[05:38] <holstein> blastedx: again.. i say do what you like, and learn as you go, but, take it easy to
[05:39] <holstein> you can come here *first* and say "im lookin at making my user an admin"
[05:39] <holstein> and i can tell you why you shouldnt do that
[05:39] <blastedx> ok, i went to the little button in the corner, hit settings, then users, and changed my account type
[05:39] <holstein> instead of dealing with the potential security issues you could be coming up with
[05:39] <blastedx> why shouldnt i though? I'm always open to good advice
[05:39] <holstein> and the system instabilities that *could* be causing the driver issue
[05:39] <blastedx> oh sorry, lol im typin too slow
[05:40] <holstein> blastedx: its better to ask, why should you?
[05:40] <holstein> why should your normal user be allowed to execute code as root?
[05:40] <blastedx> that synaptic doodad keeps saying that it's opening without admin priveleges and won't let me make changes
[05:40] <holstein> a simple web browser then becomes a window to your entire system
[05:40] <blastedx> i see what you mean
[05:41] <holstein> blastedx: you come here and ask
[05:41] <holstein> you can run in a terminal..
[05:41] <holstein> gksudo synaptic
[05:41] <blastedx> what does the gk mean?
[05:41] <blastedx> as opposed to just sudo
[05:41] <holstein> you *dont* want to be running anything more than necessarly as root
[05:41] <holstein> blastedx: think of that as grahpical sudo
[05:41] <holstein> graphical*
[05:41] <blastedx> oh like a gui?
[05:42] <holstein> synaptic is a GUI
[05:42] <holstein> and you want to run that as root
[05:42] <holstein> sudo synaptic will work fine as well though
[05:42] <Unit193> http://psychocats.net/ubuntu/graphicalsudo explains it well
[05:42] <Unit193> Better to do gksudo
[05:42] <blastedx> oh ok cool, i'll check that link out
[05:43] <holstein> *not* running everything as admin is really the first thing that give linux the edge over some of the other OS's such as windows
[05:43] <holstein> not that you cant do that in windows, its just more challenging and easier to get around
[05:44] <blastedx> alright, thanks for the help buddy  :)
[05:44] <holstein> blastedx: sure :)
[05:44] <blastedx> I'm gonna go cruise some forums
[05:44] <blastedx> see ya next time
[09:54] <pjotter> Hello everybody. I am testing Xubunt to see if I like it. One thing I noticed is the behaviour of dragging and dropping files on the desktop and in thunar differs from most distributions. When I drag and drop a file into a folder, it is copied instead of moved. Is this standard behaviour or a bug? And is there a way to change that?
[10:00] <NQTropic> pjotter, don't really see it as a problem
[10:01] <pjotter> No, I don' t. But I am just wondering if this is the way it is designed. Or if it is some bug?
[10:01] <Unit193> pjotter: You can search for bug reports on launchpad, but hitting shift works
[10:02] <pjotter> Yes, I just noticed :)
[10:02] <pjotter> It is just a different way of operating for me.
[10:02] <pjotter> I was used to default 'moving' files while dragging and dropping them
[10:03] <pjotter> But I can get used to this, I guess.
[10:56] <csenger41> hello
[11:28] <pjotter> Hello everyone. I am just testing Xubuntu at the moment and I noticed that Thunar has some really weird behaviour. Especially when dragging dropping files from en to the desktop. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it don't. Sometimes the folder is copied, then ,all over sudden the folder, is moved. At one point I also couldn't  create new files or folders anymore. It just didn't work. I woulod like to make a bug report, but the bugs I encounter
[11:29] <pjotter> What sometimes works is to just close and reopen thunar again.
[11:32] <pjotter> Sometimes a file that is moved (with shift) to the desktop gets invisible on the desktop.
[11:32] <pjotter> I don't know, guys. This thing seems very buggy to me.
[11:32] <csenger41> well it isnt buggy for me
[11:32] <csenger41> u using liveCD?
[11:32] <pjotter> How come I have all these problem?
[11:32] <pjotter> No, a clean install 11.10
[11:33] <pjotter> What version do you run?
[11:33] <csenger41> same
[11:33] <csenger41> theoretically thunar moves the file or folder if the destination is on the same device
[11:33] <pjotter> I constantly run into these kinds of problems with thunar.
[11:33] <csenger41> and copies it if the destination is another device
[11:34] <csenger41> or partition
[11:34] <pjotter> If i create a foilder on my desktop and a file. And I open the folder with thunar and drag the file into the folder, the file gets copied. Not moved.
[11:35] <csenger41> hold on ill try
[11:35] <csenger41> yes
[11:35] <pjotter> This also goes for folders.
[11:36] <csenger41> and if you look close enough you can see a white + near the cursor
[11:36] <csenger41> indicating that this action will add something
[11:37] <pjotter> So the desktop is not a "same device"?
[11:37] <csenger41> no i was wrong
[11:37] <pjotter> I don't get it. It seems very inconsistent.
[11:37] <pjotter> Oh, ok.
[11:37] <csenger41> what I said is the way Windows works
[11:37] <csenger41> I thought Thunar uses the same, but no
[11:38] <csenger41> drag&drop will always copy the file
[11:38] <csenger41> I didn't know this until now as I always use ctrl+c or x
[11:39] <pjotter> But that is not really my problem. I can live with that. It is, when I start copying, dragging and dropping folders and fiiles into onw another. Weird stuff starts to happen. Very inconsistent behaviour. Sometimes it refuses to copy folders/files. Sometimes it does. And when it does, sometimes, the folders/files are moved and sometimes they are copied.
[11:39] <csenger41> hm
[11:40] <csenger41> depending on the folder you may not have write permission
[11:40] <pjotter> I already lost a backup because of this. Beacuase I thought it had copied it to a folder. But as it turns out, it didn't.
[11:40] <pjotter> I just created them on the desktop. I don't do anything with permissions and such.
[11:41] <csenger41> how is ur computer partitioned?
[11:41] <pjotter> Completely standrad, out of the box
[11:41] <pjotter> It is very straight forward. Just create some folders and files on the desktop and start dragging and dropping.
[11:42] <pjotter> But that would not even matter beacuse I am not copying form one partition to the other. All these errors occur while copying on the desktop itself.
[11:42] <csenger41> so u mean u have a swap and the rest of the HDD is EXT4 for Linux?
[11:42] <pjotter> Yes, I used the "use whole disk" option during the installation.
[11:43] <pjotter> This is a longshot, but maybe this has something to do with the fact that I use a wacom pen tablet instead of a mouse? I can't imagine this being the problem..
[11:44] <csenger41> ohh
[11:44] <csenger41> well that may cause the problem
[11:44] <csenger41> tried with mouse?
[11:46] <pjotter> I just fetched a mouse. I will give it a try. Hang on.
[11:48] <pjotter> nope, same problems
[11:49] <csenger41> hm well thats weird
[11:50] <csenger41> try using ctrl+c and ctrl+v
[11:50] <pjotter> I did this: 1) Create a folder on desktop. 2) Create a file on desktop. 3) Open Folder with thunar. 3) Move file to folder, using shift button. 4) Move file from folder to desktop, using shift button -> fails. Tried several times.
[11:51] <pjotter> Even just trying to copy them back tot desktoptop fails.
[11:51] <csenger41> well it worked for me
[11:51] <pjotter> It is a mystery
[11:51] <csenger41> does it give you any errormessage?
[11:51] <pjotter> no
[11:52] <pjotter> This is all done in GUI
[11:52] <csenger41> ik
[11:52] <csenger41> but how you know it fails?
[11:52] <csenger41> it just dont move?
[11:52] <pjotter> Because the files don't move. They stay inside the folder and do not get copied to the desktop.
[11:53] <csenger41> try with ctrl+x and ctrl+v
[11:54] <pjotter> Doesn't work
[11:54] <pjotter> I also tried copy paste from the mouse right click button
[11:54] <csenger41> well that is a mystery indeed
[11:54] <pjotter> And this is just one of the problems I have.
[11:57] <csenger41> what are the others?
[11:57] <pjotter> If I stay within Thunar, every seems to work fine. It is when you start to drag and drop between Thunar and the desktop, things go wrong.
[11:58] <pjotter> The others are that sometimes, when I do get to copy a folder or file. The folder or files gets either randomlly copied or moved. I have no control over that.
[12:00] <pjotter> It is like I said. The errors seem to be very random. It is hard to give you something you could reproduce. It happens when I just just fiddel around, copying, dragging and dropping files in and out from Thunar unto the desktop.
[12:01] <pjotter> Ok, so now I can't creat new files and folders anymore. This sometimes happens also.
[12:02] <csenger41> well then dont use the desktop
[12:03] <pjotter> I do: desktop->right mouse button->create from..->empty file. And nothing happens
[12:03] <csenger41> linux desktop is not really the same as Windows has
[12:03] <pjotter> I have been using Ubuntu and never had any problems in regard to filehandling on the desktop
[12:04] <csenger41> well thats really interesting
[12:04] <csenger41> I have no problem with creating anything on the desktop
[12:04] <pjotter> Ok, this is interesting. I just emptied my trash. And now I can create files and folders again.
[12:04] <csenger41> haha lol
[12:05] <csenger41> you updated Linux?
[12:05] <pjotter> I noticed, that when I emptied the trash, the desktop just flashed with a gey color for a second. That didn't seem right.
[12:05] <pjotter> Yes
[12:05] <pjotter> Is it a know bug that was solved?
[12:06] <csenger41> idk maybe
[12:06] <csenger41> but ive never experienced such problems as I use much different my Xubuntu than you :)
[12:06] <pjotter> I guess
[12:07] <pjotter> I work a lot with the desktop
[12:07] <pjotter> putting files there temporarily and stuff. Until I move them to their proper location.
[12:08] <pjotter> That's just how I work. I guess if I didn't use the desktop as much, I would not have noticed these problems. They only arise when you frequently make use of the desktop.
[12:08] <pjotter> I'll see if I missed any updates.
[12:10] <pjotter> Ok, I have one "Xubuntu Desktop system" update. Maybe I should install that one.
[12:16] <pjotter> I'll have to reboot and try again.
[12:22] <pjotter> Still the same problems.
[12:23] <pjotter> It is like the systemn comes into a state where it cannot copy or move or even create new folders or files on the desktop
[12:23] <pjotter> Only loggin in and out seems to help
[12:28] <pjotter> Maybe I'll revert back to 10.04. If the problem persists I will consider making a bug report. But first I need more information on this.
[13:05] <Thermi> how do i statically set the monitor settings on Xubuntu 11.04?
[13:05] <Thermi> creating a .Xprofile doesn't work :<
[13:10] <TheSheep> !xorg.conf
[13:13] <Thermi> ty. Will try
[13:18] <Thermi> god damnit#
[13:18] <Thermi> the screen fades away after login. How do i fix this? :<
[13:19] <csenger41> could anyone help me how to create extended desktop under Xubuntu 11.10?
[13:19] <Thermi> try arandr
[13:19] <Thermi> you have to install it first, though and it requires an XServer
[13:20] <csenger41> Thermi: tried grandr but it does not work
[13:20] <Thermi> hm
[13:20] <csenger41> sec ill try
[13:20] <Thermi> k.
[13:20] <Thermi> xorg.conf?
[13:22] <csenger41> ok installed, how to use it? :S
[13:22] <Thermi> run it
[13:23] <Thermi> :D
[13:23] <Thermi> i am currently trying to fix my Laptop :<
[13:24] <csenger41> I run it but cant arrange the screen
[13:24] <csenger41> whenever I try to arrange, it jumps back
[13:49] <Thermi> it doesn't work.
[13:49] <Thermi> after login, the display settings get reverted and the external Monitor gets black again.
[14:15] <wakejagr> if i disable the integrated video card in the bios and add a video card to my xubuntu machine, the driver for the new card should load automatically, right?
[14:16] <wakejagr> since there is no longer an xorg.conf specifying the driver info, etc . . .
[14:16] <GridCube> it should yes
[14:17] <GridCube> it should also pop a window from jockey-gtk asking you if you want to install privative drivers
[14:19] <wakejagr> GridCube: thanks
[14:27] <Thermi> it seems my /etc/gdm/Session script is broken. It doesn't read the .xprofile script file in ~ :<
[14:43] <HotBit> xGrind: achei!!!
[14:44] <xGrind> \o
[14:44] <Thermi> dafuq.
[14:45] <HotBit> xGrind: devia ter xubuntu-br
[14:45] <Thermi> http://paste.ubuntu.com/827665/
[15:39] <Dreeg> Hello everyone, quick question .. I can not remember how to run the applications menu. How do I move a program from a "section" to another? And how do I enable / disable some sections?
[15:39] <Dreeg> I'm on Xubuntu 11.10
[15:41] <holstein> Dreeg: i was reading that lxmenueditor is one way, though its not in the repos yet http://wiki.xfce.org/howto/customize-menu
[15:41] <knome> !menueditor
[15:42] <holstein> even better :)
[15:42] <Dreeg> I remember there was a time I did it. Without installing anything. Only after months of not touched Xubuntu now that I decided to stay I do not remember how.
[15:47] <Dreeg> I tried to install it, as you suggested. Does not allow me to move programs from one section to another, but only within the order of the menu.
[15:47] <hobgoblin> I think you'd need to remove and add a new one
[15:49] <Dreeg> remove what?
[15:49] <holstein> remove the one you dont want, and add it back where you want it
[15:49] <holstein> you likely cant 'drag' them around
[15:52] <Dreeg> Forse cercavi: Come li-aggiungo ciò che voglio "dove" voglio?
[15:52] <Dreeg> How to re-add what I want "where" I want to?
[15:52] <Dreeg> How to re-add what I want "where" I want to?
[15:52] <Dreeg> O.o
[15:53] <holstein> Dreeg: i would grab the launch text from the old one.. delete it.. create a new one where i want it, and paste the text in
[15:58] <Dreeg> ouh.. is cumbersome .. but I remembered that there was .. maybe it was ubuntu.. :(
[15:59] <holstein> likely its gnome you are remembering.. the link i gave offers text options though... you can likely cut and paste those.. i personally havent opened a menu since i started using kupfer :)
[15:59] <TVasEyes> Dreeg: "move a program from a "section" to another"  one method is editing the 'Categories' in the corresponding .desktop file.
[16:01] <Dreeg> TVasEyes: ok, but fors enable/disable section?
[16:01] <Dreeg> holstein, kupfer?
[16:03] <holstein> Dreeg: that will allow you to move, or "disable"... there are examples in that link i gave http://wiki.xfce.org/howto/customize-menu
[16:03] <holstein> !kupfer
[16:03] <holstein> http://kaizer.se/wiki/kupfer/
[16:03] <Dreeg> But is similar to new tool of ubuntu?
[16:04] <Dreeg> Unity xD
[16:05] <holstein> Dreeg: if you get a chance to try unity and kupfer, you'll see that that is *not* the case.. but if its not your thing, its not your thing... im just sharing with you why i dont feel the need to look at, much less edit, the menu any more for my needs
[16:06] <Dreeg> Now i try kupfer
[16:08] <Dreeg> oh.. now I understand xD
[16:09] <Dreeg> I prefer the classic menu (one of several reasons for which I switched to Xubuntu)
[16:10] <holstein> sure... the .desktop files that TVasEyes mentioned are the way i would go... or create a custom launcher situation with a dock or another panel
[16:10] <TVasEyes> Dreeg: in that case the link holstein supplied will tell you how to manage your menu structure.
[16:12] <TVasEyes> holstein: do you not find that using tools like kupfer 'alienates' you from your machine?
[16:12] <holstein> TVasEyes: i like it.. but i was using gnome-do for a while, and found kupfer to be a lighter alternative
[16:12] <holstein> i like that i can stay off the mouse and launch whatever i want, directories or apps
[16:13] <holstein> its a change in workflow though for sure
[16:13] <TVasEyes> I see, I'm probably too old (or even old-school) for this type of working.
[16:13] <TVasEyes> (terminals for me ;) )
[16:14] <knome> something like gnome-do could be great, though i don't use so many apps that i really need such :)
[16:14] <knome> anyway, let's move the more general discussion to #xubuntu-offtopic :)
[16:14] <knome> happy to chat with you there about launchers and other stuff
[16:15] <Dreeg> Uff.. why the tool to which I refer is on ubuntu but not on xubuntu? :(
[16:16] <Dreeg> Rhetorical question xD but :(
[16:46] <pjotter> Hi. I now installed 10.04. Still the same problems with Thunar. Only to a lesser degree. And this time they don't seem so random anymore.
[16:52] <pjotter> Would someone using Xubuntu 10.04 be able to verify something for me?
[16:53] <mongy> pjotter, what problem?
[16:53] <pjotter> I am having great difficulties in both 11.10 and 10.04
[16:53] <mongy> ?
[16:53] <pjotter> Regarding Thunae
[16:53] <pjotter> Thunar
[16:54] <mongy> describe the problem
[16:54] <pjotter> Ok.
[16:55] <pjotter> When I  try to move (with shift pressed) a file from the desktop to a folder (opened with thunar), sometimes the file won't move. Nothing happens. And also vice versa is very hard to do.
[16:56] <pjotter> In 11.10 I had the same problem. Only worse. It was very random. Sometimes it worked without problems. Other times, it just refused to copy any files form the desktop.
[16:56] <pjotter> Now, in 10.04 I have a similar problem.
[16:57] <mongy> on 11.10 here, works ok for me.
[16:57] <TVasEyes> pjotter: highlight file, then Ctrl+x, open target directory ('folder'), then Ctrl+v.  works for me, every time.
[16:57] <TVasEyes> pjotter: use Ctrl+c if you want to copy instead of moving.
[16:58] <mongy> pjotter, you could try a different file nanager like pcmanfm, or do as TVasEyes says
[17:00] <pjotter> If you havge 10.04, you can you try this: 1) On the desktop (rightclick), make a folder. 2) On the desktop (rightclick), create an empty file. Open the folder (with Thunar).Now move (shift pressed) the file (drag and drop) in the openend folder. The file should be moved to the folder. But when I then try the reverse. So: move (shift pressed) the file to the desktop. It doesn't work. But I try a second time. Suddenly it works and teh file i
[17:01] <pjotter> mongy:"The ctrl-X thing works when I try to move it from desktop->Thunar. But the reverse does not.
[17:02] <TVasEyes> pjotter: I use 11.10, so cannot replicate.  however, Ctrl+{c,x,v,z} always work, even on Windows ;)  seriously, why not use your keyboard?
[17:03] <pjotter> TVasEyes: I just explained. This does not work with me. I already tried. When I ctrl-X a file in Thunar, I cannot ctrl-c it to the desktop.
[17:04] <TVasEyes> pjotter: after you Ctrl+x the file in some directory, open the Desktop in Thunar and Ctrl+v.  I'd be very surprised if it didn't work.
[17:04] <pjotter> It seems to me that Thunar has severe problem with desktop integration. If I try these things in Thunar, there is no problem. This only occurs between Thunar and the Desktop of vice versa.
[17:04]  * TVasEyes goes to cook some food.
[17:05] <pjotter> TVasEyes: I'm sure that would work. But that is not the point. I'm trying to figure out why I can't copy/paste drag drop stuff from Thunar to the Desktop and vice versa.
[17:09] <TVasEyes> pjotter: you could try run xclipboard to get better copy/cut/paste support.  (really off to the kitchen now, good luck).
[17:10] <pjotter> TVasEyes: Thanks.. I'll try some more options (including installing PCman fm). There has got to be a way to make this work.
[17:11] <pjotter> Afterall. Min Linux uses Thunar too. And it has no problems with this.
[17:12] <pjotter> I hope it's not something silly like: a bug that only occurs in some localised versions?
[17:16] <pjotter> mongy: That is weird. PCman has the same problems. Looks like this might not be Thunar related.
[17:42] <cmdbbq> just loaded xubuntuu on my netbook, trying to get it set up. is there a simple way to turn off window decorations under xfce? I am using a program called maximus that runs everything maximized by default but it does not reliably remove the title bar, although it claims to and does sometimes.
[17:43] <knome> cmdbbq, i suppose killing xfwm - but i'm not sure how stable that is
[17:43] <holstein> cmdbbq: ive never used maximus with XFCE.. for me, on my netbook, i used to just auto-hide the panels..
[17:43] <knome> or is it xfwm4...
[17:43] <holstein> i think its *4
[17:44] <knome> i'm not sure if that's completely correct, but i'd guess so.
[17:50] <cmdbbq> hm, what does xfwm do, besides draw the window decorations? I want the panel, I like to be able to glance at the clock/notifications/etc, so I don't just want everything in fullscreen.
[17:52] <holstein> wonder if you'd like the lubuntu netbook edition UI
[17:53] <cmdbbq> holstein: I've looked into it
[17:53] <holstein> i wouldnt expect maximus support to get any better than it is... i dont think anyone is using it anymore
[17:54] <holstein> im not sure killing the decorations will get you want you want anyways
[18:04] <cmdbbq> my desired behaiviour is for almost all programs to launch maximized without  border  or title bar. I would settle for all, but i would prefer to be able to select a list of exemptions. i wonder if i would be better off looking at a scriptable tiling window manager.
[18:05] <holstein> in only trying to get you away from maximus because i found it pretty odd using it in even the netbook remix that it was supposed to work well in
[18:06] <holstein> what about gnomeshell?
[18:06] <cmdbbq> i've been using it for a while and my only complaint has been that it sometimes doesn't hide the title bar
[18:06] <cmdbbq> i neither like it nor think my netbook could run it well
[18:06] <cmdbbq> gnomeshell i mean
[18:19] <likemindead> Anyone having Amazon Prime Instant Video troubles? I found a fix (that worked for me). Run "sudo apt-get install hal libhal1" FTW!
[18:19] <likemindead> Source: http://www.amazon.com/forum/amazon%20video%20on%20demand/ref=cm_cd_pg_pg2?_encoding=UTF8&cdForum=Fx3EQAX98ED5WQ3&cdPage=2&cdSort=oldest&cdThread=TxFTGOK5LRL3JM
[18:23] <ParkerR> Hello
[18:24] <GridCube_> !hi
[18:24] <ParkerR> Just wanted to say I'm in love with Xubuntu :D
[18:24] <GridCube_> :D
[18:25] <likemindead> I like playing with various distros but I always come back to Xubuntu, ParkerR. ^__^
[18:25] <ParkerR> likemindead, Same. Been jumping around for a while.
[18:26] <ParkerR> I just like how it doesn't feel as bulky as regular Ubuntu
[18:26] <GridCube_> :) if you dont mind can we take this to #xubuntu-offtopic, this channel if for help
[18:26] <ParkerR> Ok
[18:26] <GridCube_> thank you very much :)
[19:12] <GridCube_> how do i globally change the ownership of 3 subdirectories on a directory, that has like a ton of files to myself?
[19:14] <GridCube_> lol i should read the man before asking, nevermind
[20:24] <mohammed> hi
[20:24] <Guest6785> i would like to restore default setting for xubuntu
[20:24] <Guest6785> could i do this in terminal?
[20:26] <Guest6785> any help?
[20:27] <Unit193> Default settings?
[20:27] <Guest6785> yes
[20:27] <Unit193> Well, you *could* remove .config to start if you mean user settings you've changed.  In what why do you want to restore?
[20:29] <Guest6785> actually, i am more friendly with ubuntu, but i decided to switch to xubuntu, but i am facing language support..
[20:31] <Guest6785> i am using two languages, English and Arabic, but i am facing difficulties in showing language icon on the panel and switching between the two, after several trails i decided to restore the settings so i can add them again
[20:32] <Guest6785> on the panel it is showing "input method off"
[20:32] <GridCube_> oh so you want to reset the panels
[20:32] <Unit193> Not sure it'd work with languages as I've only ever used English, but normally to reset config you rename /home/username/.config to something list /home/username/.config_backup . I'd think there would be a way to set it up for yo9u though
[20:33] <Unit193> GridCube_ here is multi, he'd be able to help more than I
[20:34] <Guest6785> i will try now.. thanks
[20:34] <GridCube_> I use my intereface in spanish only, i never switch :/
[20:35] <Unit193> Heh, well you'd be better than I would, I only understand English
[20:37] <GridCube_> :P
[22:36] <qpnaosc> hello
[22:37] <qpnaosc> I am having rather large confusing problems with my computer
[22:37] <qpnaosc> I was wondering if anyone could help
[22:38] <qpnaosc> this has happened 3 times
[22:38] <qpnaosc> the first symptom is firefox crashing repeatedly, right when it starts
[22:38] <qpnaosc> the last time it happened was after I put a memory card reader in the USB slot
[22:39] <qpnaosc> now when I run xubuntu, the sound manager app reads "label empty"
[22:42] <qpnaosc> xubuntu-dev
[22:43] <qpnaosc> oops
[22:43] <qpnaosc> #xubuntu-dev
[22:43] <qpnaosc> sigh
[22:44] <qpnaosc> is holstein the only one who answers questions here? :(
[22:44] <knome> no, but we're all volunteers
[22:45] <qpnaosc> ah
[22:45] <qpnaosc> thank you for your work
[22:45] <knome> np
[22:45] <qpnaosc> can you help me? :)
[22:45] <knome> have you installed something weird or so
[22:45] <knome> don't know what could cause that though
[22:45] <qpnaosc> I think it started after I tried to install Windows on a disk
[22:45] <qpnaosc> it wouldn't recognize the disk, and didn't install anything
[22:45] <qpnaosc> but I've been having problems since then
[22:46] <qpnaosc> I reinstalled xubuntu
[22:46] <qpnaosc> and it's still doing it
[22:48] <qpnaosc> this is what the firefox crash report says: The application had a problem and crashed.
[22:48] <qpnaosc> Unfortunately, the crash reporter is unable to submit a report for this crash.
[22:48] <qpnaosc> Details: The application did not identify itself.
[22:48] <knome> what if you run that from terminal?
[22:48] <qpnaosc> it still crashes
[22:49] <knome> does it give any other information?
[22:49] <knome> what about apt-get check?
[22:50] <Unit193> I'd say check the logs in /var/log/
[22:51] <qpnaosc> Reading package lists... Done
[22:51] <qpnaosc> Building dependency tree
[22:51] <qpnaosc> Reading state information... Done
[22:51] <qpnaosc> check the logs in /var/log/?
[22:51] <knome> !pastebin | qpnaosc
[22:51] <qpnaosc> ok
[22:53] <qpnaosc> ubottu: sadly, my browser doesn't work currently...
[22:53] <qpnaosc> chrome doesn't work either
[22:53] <qpnaosc> hahah, thanks ubottu.
[22:53] <qpnaosc> knome: sadly, my browser doesn't work currently.
[22:54] <qpnaosc> Unit193: I have a long list of files, what am I looking for specifically? Or can I give you them all?
[22:56] <qpnaosc> apologies for the multi-line chat, but this is the message I get when I try to run Synaptic Package Manager:
[22:56] <qpnaosc> Failed to run /usr/sbin/synaptic as user root.
[22:56] <qpnaosc> Unable to copy the user's Xauthorization file.
[22:57] <knome> qpnaosc, have you logged in as root in GUI?
[22:57] <qpnaosc> how do I do that?
[22:57] <knome> don't
[22:58] <qpnaosc> oh, ok.
[22:58] <qpnaosc> no, I'm just logged in as my regular login
[22:58] <knome> qpnaosc, try deleting ~/.Xauthority
[22:59] <qpnaosc> what directory is that in?
[22:59] <Unit193> Right, if you don't have a browser you still should have pastebinit
[22:59] <knome> ~ == /home/yourusername
[23:00] <qpnaosc> Unit193: how then?
[23:00] <qpnaosc> knome: rm: cannot remove `/home/qpnaosc/.Xauthority': No such file or directory
[23:00] <Unit193> cat what/ever/file.og |pastebinit
[23:01] <knome> qpnaosc, what does 'ls -l /home' say?
[23:02] <qpnaosc> Unit193: I am a beginner... do I put that into Terminal? I am confused.
[23:02] <Unit193> qpnaosc: Follow knome for now though
[23:02] <qpnaosc> ok
[23:02] <qpnaosc> total 8
[23:02] <qpnaosc> drwxr-xr-x 21 guest   guest   4096 2012-02-02 16:20 guest
[23:02] <qpnaosc> drwxr-xr-x 29 qpnaosc qpnaosc 4096 2012-02-03 22:30 qpnaosc
[23:03] <knome> that looks fine
[23:05] <qpnaosc> hm
[23:05] <qpnaosc> the other thing that happens, after a while, is that the login screen goes into infinite loop
[23:05] <qpnaosc> so I login, it accepts my password seemingly, and then the login screen appears again
[23:07] <qpnaosc> after I login and before the login screen appears, another message appears for one split second that reads "Stopping cold plugins"
[23:07] <qpnaosc> the internet has no information as to what cold plugins might be
[23:14] <artao> hai
[23:14] <artao> i'm wondering: can xfce 'do' desktop gadgets/gizmos/etc ...??
[23:14] <knome> qpnaosc, cold == dead? :)
[23:14] <knome> artao, no
[23:14] <artao> i've got a fresh brand new install here
[23:14] <artao> k
[23:14] <artao> thx
[23:18] <qpnaosc> knome: maybe? :)
[23:20] <pjotter> artao: You mean like Compiz stuff?
[23:20] <knome> pjotter, he's out
[23:20] <pjotter> Oh, yes.
[23:20] <pjotter> :D
[23:20] <knome> qpnaosc, i'm supposing that's what it means.
[23:21] <pjotter> Anyway. I got Compiz running here. If that's what he meant.
[23:21] <qpnaosc> oh, I thought you were joking...
[23:21] <pjotter> No, I need glasses :)
[23:22] <pjotter> I've been looking into the Thunar-Xfce-desktop bugs thing. I think I got it figured out now.
[23:23] <qpnaosc> hmm, I ran update from the terminal, and now firefox is running again
[23:26] <qpnaosc> the package manager is also working now
[23:29] <TVasEyes> pjotter: well then, do tell please.
[23:30] <pjotter> Can anyone explain this: On the desktop, I create a new folder and a file. I open the folder (Thunar starts). I move (=drag-drop+SHIFT) the file into the opened folder in Thunar. Then I do the reverse. I move (drag-drop-SHIFT) the file back to the Desktop. Nothing happens. I repeat it. Bingo! The file moves to the Desktop again. My question: Why does the last action never succeed on the first time? Is that a bug?
[23:32] <TVasEyes> pjotter: <pjotter> I think I got it figured out now.  ??
[23:33] <pjotter> That means: I now know how to reproduce one of the errors I encountered.
[23:33] <pjotter> You can try it. It does that everytime.
[23:33] <TVasEyes> I see, better than nothing I suppose...
[23:34] <TVasEyes> pjotter: have you tried xclipboard?  is old (older than xcfe/Thunat/etc) and might just help.
[23:34] <TVasEyes> Thunar*
[23:35] <pjotter> TVasEyes: I haven't. Is that another file manager?
[23:35] <TVasEyes> no, it provides copy/cut/paste on X servers/desktop environments.
[23:36] <TVasEyes> man xclipboard
[23:36] <pjotter> btw: Do you think this is a bug that ought te be files somewhere?
[23:36] <pjotter> files= filed
[23:37] <pjotter> According to the termna, it is already running.
[23:37] <TVasEyes> I think you could _ask_ the Thunar developers whether they think their software should behave the way you expect it to.
[23:38] <TVasEyes> pjotter: if you didn't start xclipboard, killall it and see whether it changes things, perhaps there's interference?
[23:39] <pjotter> I'll try that. Thanks!
[23:41] <pjotter> btw: Do you think this is the way the developers designed it to behave? I find that very unlikely. My bet is that they might be interested in this 'bug'/'problem'. I just don't know yet if this really qualifies as a bug or not. But that's what I'm here for. To find out.
[23:42] <TVasEyes> personally, no, I would not expect a file manager to drag/drop from arbitrary locations to desktop.
[23:43] <TVasEyes> but then, I'm a fossil :-)
[23:44] <pjotter> Well, join the club :)
[23:44] <Unit193> Generally that's how it works though. Report it if you think it is, they can always mark it invalid (Though, don't report things just for fun either :P )
[23:45] <pjotter> "killall xclipboard" does not work. I am not familiar with killall. Should I giove another command to stop the xclipboard process?
[23:46] <TVasEyes> does your user own the xclipboard process?  if yes you should be able to killall it.  you can use kill <pid>.  if it's owned by someone else you need to use sudo.
[23:47] <pjotter> ah! ofcourse...
[23:48] <TVasEyes> pjotter: it _should_ be owned by you though.
[23:48] <pjotter> it says: no process found
[23:48] <pjotter> Maybe I should kill it with the process ID?
[23:49] <TVasEyes> if it's not running (ps faux | grep xclipb) start it ($ xclipboard &) and see whether your drag/drop succeeds.  I recommend a quick scan of the man page first.
[23:50] <pjotter> What does the & do? ( I'm sorry, I am still a newby in a lot of linux stuff)
[23:51] <TVasEyes> leaves the process running and return your prompt.
[23:51] <TVasEyes> returns*
[23:51] <TVasEyes> alternatively do Alt+F2 and type xclipboard there.
[23:52] <pjotter> just F2 "xclipboard"?
[23:52] <TVasEyes> Alt+F2 pops up the program launcher thingy.
[23:52] <pjotter> Yes, I know that much :)
[23:53] <pjotter> But what's the point in starting a process that is already running?
[23:53] <TVasEyes> but does it?? <pjotter> it says: no process found
[23:54] <pjotter> Yes, but when I type xclipboard in the terminal, it says: Error: another clipboard is already running
[23:54] <pjotter> Or is that some other 'kind' of clipboard?
[23:55] <TVasEyes> pjotter: what do you get from  ps faux | grep xclipboard  ?
[23:55] <pjotter> It returns: test      3810  0.0  0.0  13500   868 pts/0    S+   00:55   0:00      \_ grep --color=auto xclipboard
[23:55] <TVasEyes> so, it's _not_ running.
[23:55] <pjotter> Alrighty
[23:56] <pjotter> So, there is another clipboard running the show, then?
[23:56] <TVasEyes> can't tell, grep for clipboard, what d oyou get?
[23:57] <pjotter> "grep clipboard"?
[23:58] <TVasEyes> as before. ps faux | grep clipb   you have to list the processes before you can grep from them.
[23:58] <pjotter> It returns: test      3818  0.0  0.0  13500   864 pts/0    S+   00:58   0:00      \_ grep --color=auto clipb
[23:59] <pjotter> Should I try to kill clipb?
[23:59] <TVasEyes> ok, now we know there's no process running with clipboard in its name.
[23:59] <pjotter> Or will that severely mess up the system? :D


[02:25] <eNiX> does anyone know of a good how-to guide to help me install an LTSP server running Ubuntu 10.4 with one nic card... and not running as the DHCP server?


[03:22] <sgfault> Hello
[03:24] <sgfault> I need some help with setting up my job on centos 6.2 64 bit. Here's the problem, when I reboot the system and do initctl list, I don't see my custom job in the list, but I have to do initctl reload-configuration and then initctl list shows the job.
[03:25] <sgfault> When I reboot, the configuration gone again and I have to manually do initctl reload-configuration again.
[03:25] <sgfault> The startup condition I have in my file  is : start on startup
[03:25] <sgfault> And I am on Upstart 0.6.5 that is shipped with centos 6.2
[03:26] <sgfault> Any help/pointers is appreciated.
[03:40] <sgfault> anyone?
[04:04] <sgfault> anyone?
[14:57] <xnox> jodh: file bridge - i pulled the updates /foo.txt now works, but creating a subdir and touching a file in it doesn't.
[14:58] <jodh> xnox: ? certainly should do. One sec...
[14:58] <xnox> also I disagree on emitting events for existing files, for example opening and closing a .conf file causes the job to be reloaded and the bridge re-emits created events, when imho it shouldn't.
[14:59] <jodh> xnox: I'm testing the latest code now using your example and it wfm.
[15:00] <xnox> can we not emit events, and instead ask people to do 'start on runlevel[2345] or file FPATH="/foo" FEVENT=create', but it will be their job to check if /foo exists in pre-start and abort starting for example.
[15:01] <xnox> jodh: let me clear stale objects and do a clean compile.
[15:02] <jodh> xnox: the problem is, if we don't emit the event for existing files, this will be highly non-intuitive since a job that specifies 'start on file FPATH=/something' will never start even if /something *does* exist.
[15:02] <jodh> xnox: ok.
[15:03] <jodh> xnox: but rewriting a job file is not going to be a normal operation, unless you happen to be writing a new job and then you would want the event emitted again surely?
[15:03] <xnox> but then this event will be emitted: every time we do any reexec, every time that jobfile is edited (multiple events emitted)
[15:04] <xnox> jodh: dpkg upgrade writes new files.
[15:04] <xnox> (include job files)
[15:04] <xnox> jodh: my understanding that in practice "start on file FPATH=/something" will all be tasks & not long running daemons with expect/respawn.
[15:05] <xnox> and thus the point is that we do not want to automatically start them, only when something happens.
[15:05] <jodh> xnox: maybe, but we can't enforce that.
[15:05] <xnox> true. I guess we can wait for people to use it and complain to us if stale files are a problem.
[15:05] <xnox> and if stale files are a problem we should point them to use XDG_RUNTIME_DIR instead, to avoid having stale file problem ;-)
[15:06] <jodh> xnox: maybe an alternative is to support 'FEVENT=exists' so we'd only emit the event in that scenario. If FEVENT is not specified, we would only emit on (an actual)create, modify, or delete.
[15:07] <xnox> jodh: feature creep, that is a sound approach we can take, if requested to differentiate.
[15:09] <jodh> xnox: indeed :)
[15:12] <jodh> xnox: the re-exec case is indeed problematic. I think for now we'll need to rely on the job in question to detect that it's already processed "file". Thankfully, services like whoopsie will DTRT I believe.
[15:21] <xnox> all works fine \o/ merging.
[15:21]  * xnox had a syntax error in one of the conf files.
[15:22] <SpamapS> btw
[15:22] <SpamapS> the file bridge
[15:22] <jodh> xnox: thanks! :)
[15:22] <SpamapS> *love it*
[15:23] <xnox> SpamapS: ;-) you had me on the edge with the first two lines ;-) but all is good after last one.
[15:23] <jodh> SpamapS: hope it's useful. There are certainly enhancements we can make. I wonder if the ability for a job to specify 'single-shot' mode would be useful as currently (as the man page states), it's very much 'multi-shot'.
[15:24] <SpamapS> well..
[15:25] <SpamapS> I like the idea of the system abstracting away the details of inotify (which is, I assume, what it is intended to do).
[15:25] <SpamapS> also, what I'd really love would be 'reload on' :)
[15:28] <jodh> SpamapS: yes - I didn't call it upstart-inotify-bridge for that reason too in case we decide to change the implementation (and I would like to! :-)
[15:29] <jodh> SpamapS: is there a bug for 'reload on'?
[15:34] <SpamapS> jodh: no, but let me file that
[15:34] <jodh> SpamapS: thanks!!
[15:34] <SpamapS> btw if you're looking for a bug to work on.. https://bugs.launchpad.net/upstart/+bug/406397
[15:35] <SpamapS> ... 58 affected...
[15:37] <jodh> SpamapS: yeah - we haven't forgotten about that one - honest! :)
[15:39] <SpamapS> jodh: its about every 10 days we get a new "I have a pid stuck..." person in here.
[15:43] <jodh> SpamapS: I appreciate this isn't ideal, but maybe they could use a container to develop the jobs in? Or if the jobs don't need to run as root, use the Upstart 1.7 Session Init as logout/login is quicker than reboot ;)
[15:46] <xnox> we also have a lot of "It doesn't restart" and the pids in ps and status do not match.
[15:49] <SpamapS> jodh: thats a lot more complicated than 'initctl forget job-foo'
[15:49] <SpamapS> jodh: or, following exit's instead of forks (my preference.. ;)