[05:39] <hikiko> Hi
[07:45] <ricotz> Trevinho, hi, I assume the new bamf is not suppose to signal an "empty" BamfApplication (no desktop-file, no name) for a startup-notification
[08:21] <Sweet5hark> moin
[08:56] <willcooke> morning all
[08:56] <willcooke> The kettle is broken.
[08:56] <willcooke> This is the worst day of my life ever
[09:02] <willcooke> wait
[09:02] <willcooke> it's ok
[09:02] <Laney> hi
[09:02] <willcooke> it's just the light that tells you it's on that's broken
[09:03] <willcooke> morning Laney
[09:12] <willcooke> didrocks, do you know who I can speak to about: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libunity/+bug/1538471
[09:24] <didrocks> hey willcooke! Hum, I think the api team first? I know pstolowski worked on this at the time
[09:25] <willcooke> thanks didrocks
[09:25] <didrocks> yw ;)
[09:27] <willcooke> Laney, don't know if you saw my ramblings last night.  I tracked down a themeing problem with Terminal to some hard-coded padding and margins.  I was wondering if we could remove that actions box (which I did by simply commenting it out) or if I should change the hard coded values to match our theme requirements?  IMO just getting rid of the "actions" box altogether is the best option.
[09:27] <willcooke> "All" it does is allow you to create a new tab and choose which tab you want active.
[09:27] <willcooke> Things that I assume most people do with keyboard shortcuts
[09:28] <Laney> Sounds dangerous to assume that
[09:28] <Laney> "Ubuntu patched out the button I use all the time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
[09:30] <willcooke> Well, it didnt exist in 14.04
[09:30] <willcooke> I think it was added in 3.18
[09:30] <Laney> what's the problem?
[09:30] <willcooke> If I "fix" it to work with out theme, then it will be broken for everyone else
[09:31] <willcooke> I'll grab some screenshots after my meeting, but basically the tab that contains the action buttons is misaligned.  It overlaps with the previous tab and is offset by a couple of pixels up and right.
[09:31] <willcooke> It looks a bit messy is all
[09:31] <pstolowski> willcooke, hey! i worked on libunity project, that's right, but not on this particular aspect (python bindings); jamesh did most of the python bindings stuff. we haven't touched this code for ~3 years, maybe it's related to python 3 or python-gi change
[09:33] <willcooke> thanks pstolowski - I'll drop him a line see if he's got any ideas.
[09:34] <pstolowski> yw
[09:40] <davmor2> cyphermox: it's all your damned fault :P  on the mokutils password type "moo1234" or just the letter "a" there is an error in the password confirmation that says they don't match I think you'll find they damn well do, So I assume it only shows that error regardless and the issue is actually that it is too short
[09:46]  * pitti spots the news in Brussels, argh!
[09:48] <Laney> willcooke: If you really want to fix this (is it high priority?) then you can probably make those paddings configurable if you use GtkStyleContext manually
[09:49] <Laney> I don't think GtkContainer exposes the border-width property in CSS
[09:49] <Laney> at least not that I can tell
[09:49] <Laney> pitti: indeed :(
[09:51] <willcooke> Laney, Well I don't think we should ship it looking a bit off, and I dont have the skillz to fix it properly.  The most I can probably do it change the hard coded padding to work for us, or we get rid of it.  For my money, we just turn it off.  But yeah, users. ;)
[10:07] <willcooke> Laney, without actions button: http://imgur.com/aSBnKBJ
[10:08] <willcooke> with actions button (unfettled - I will change the padding etc in a mo and see what it looks like): http://imgur.com/CUHBcAx
[10:09] <davmor2> haha willcooke only 91.9 MB of updates
[10:16] <hikiko> willcooke, Laney andyrock
[10:16] <hikiko> I manually dist-upraded from lts 14 to lts 16
[10:17] <hikiko> and the  upgrade stopped
[10:17] <hikiko> at the moment that the package ubuntu-desktop
[10:17] <hikiko> was about to get installed
[10:18] <Trevinho> ricotz: what you mean by empty signal?
[10:18] <hikiko> I got this message: /usr/sbin/invoke-rc.d: /sbin/runlevel: not found stop/waiting
[10:19] <hikiko> I wonder if some pre/post installation script crashes the desktop
[10:19] <hikiko> and we get the panic
[10:19] <hikiko> sorry the message is:
[10:20] <hikiko>  /usr/sbin/invoke-rc.d: /sbin/runlevel: not found cron stop/waiting
[10:22] <davmor2> willcooke, jibel: so good news at last the qt issue doesn't affect a default install so I assume it is because I have the sdk installed cause who would want to use the desktop to develop stuff :)
[10:22] <hikiko> and libperl didn't upgrade either I see some bugs there too
[10:22] <hikiko> because UUID.pm is missing
[10:22] <hikiko> any ideas?
[10:23] <davmor2> cyphermox: ^
[10:23] <Laney> willcooke: https://paste.ubuntu.com/15471088 https://paste.ubuntu.com/15471091
[10:24] <willcooke> Laney, zomg - thank you!!
[10:24]  * willcooke patches
[10:24] <Laney> not sure it'll work from the inspector
[10:24] <willcooke> Let's see...
[10:24] <ricotz> Trevinho, afaics while starting an application using a GDesktopAppInfo results in a signaled BamfApplication of BamfMatcher which has no concrete information
[10:25] <Laney> but you can always edit the css
[10:25] <hikiko> It seems that there are missing dependencies
[10:25] <hikiko> sorry :p I accidentally pasted that :p
[10:25] <ricotz> Trevinho, this is running plank which is using libbamf
[10:26] <davmor2> willcooke: http://people.canonical.com/~davmor2/desktop-screenshots/for-will.png
[10:27] <Trevinho> ricotz: what info is missing? If there's no desktop file, there should be no bamf application signaled
[10:28] <Trevinho> Also it's marked with the starting property, thus you can filter them out if you want.
[10:29] <ricotz> Trevinho, it has no desktop-file but it is a BamfApplication, and I don't want to use this new API to workaround this behaviour change ;)
[10:30] <ricotz> I had no time to really debug it yet
[10:32] <Trevinho> ricotz: weird. Since we only care about apps with desktop files. If you can paste a log of GDBus monitoring bamf interface or a test case would be nice
[10:36] <ricotz> Trevinho, I can see an additional application "/org/ayatana/bamf/application/0x..." is created which disappears after a specific timeout (I assume those are the hardcoded 15s)
[10:37] <Trevinho> ricotz: Mh, that happens when launching what?
[10:40] <ricotz> Trevinho, any application (which is pinned and has a proper desktop-file) with the plank's internal starting mechanism which makes use of a GDesktopAppInfo and the GdkDisplay's default GAppLaunchContext
[10:44] <ricotz> Trevinho, I will try to make a small sample application to trigger this problem
[10:45] <Trevinho> ricotz: well, we use the same thing to launch apps in unity as well...
[10:46] <Trevinho> And so we do when launching from the dash
[10:49] <Sweet5hark> Laney: https://anonscm.debian.org/viewvc/pkg-gnome/desktop/experimental/gnome-documents/debian/changelog?r1=47555&r2=47588 <- are you aware of these gnome-documents/libreoffice interdependencies and do we need to care?
[10:50] <Laney> Sweet5hark: is the problem that you can't install gnome-documents?
[10:50] <willcooke> hikiko, so you think that's what is causing the Xorg crash, which is what is causing the compiz crash?
[10:53] <Sweet5hark> Laney: Im still following down the rabbit hole. The issue seems that gnome-documents crashes if some libreoffice is installed, but there is no liblibreofficekitgtk.so ...
[10:53] <Laney> Sweet5hark: looks like rene added that in 5.1.1-1
[10:53] <hikiko> I think that it's possible that some packages update in wrong order or there are dependencies missing and some scripts that run can't find modules or sth they need and crash.
[10:53] <Laney> Probably want that too
[10:54] <Sweet5hark> Laney: that can easily happen for us as the *.so isnt in the commonly installed packages.
[10:54] <Sweet5hark> Laney: right.
[10:54] <hikiko> that UUID.pm for example that is missing from perl: there might be some install script that uses perl and need it
[10:55] <hikiko> dist-upgrade crashes without x running
[10:55] <Sweet5hark> Laney: I havent merged -1 yet (I usually stop doing full merges around feature freeze to prevent regressions). I take that as I should get that change cherry-picked still for us?
[10:56] <hikiko> willcooke, it seems that the compiz/X crash is a consequence not the reason of the upgrade failure
[10:57] <hikiko> maybe packagers can find out more on why dist-upgrade fails
[10:57]  * Sweet5hark takes a look at _rene_s commits.
[10:58] <ricotz> Trevinho, I guess there must be another factor to trigger it
[10:59] <willcooke> hikiko, could this (invalid) bug be related?  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sysvinit/+bug/1444502
[11:01] <hikiko> I see that message too willcooke but I really don't know much about packages and dependencies, it could definitely be 1 of the missing dependencies but I don't know if that's the only bug or if this causes the crash
[11:02] <hikiko> http://paste.ubuntu.com/15471226/ these are the repos I used btw, I commented out everything else
[11:02] <hikiko> so the packages must be in one of those 2
[11:03] <willcooke> pitti, we've got an upgrade problem going from 14.04 -> 16.04.  The upgrade crashes half way through and if you reboot the box at that point you can end up with a kernel panic.
[11:03] <Sweet5hark> *urgh*
[11:03] <Sweet5hark> Laney: this situation is rather ... unfortunate.
[11:03] <willcooke> pitti, Laney did some debugging yesterday and we saw compiz crash because (I think) Xorg went away.  hikiko has done some more testing thigs morning
[11:04] <willcooke> pitti, at seen a message about /sbin/runlevel: not found cron stop/waiting
[11:04] <Laney> Sweet5hark: oh yeah?
[11:04] <willcooke> pitti, I wondered if this could be a not-systemd -> systemd issue?
[11:04] <hikiko> yes I saw that too
[11:04] <hikiko> willcooke,
[11:04] <hikiko> since the crash causes a kernel panic
[11:05] <hikiko> and the message is that it cant mount the rootfs
[11:06] <hikiko> it's possible that during the upgrade the initrd is not created by the kernel
[11:06] <pitti> willcooke: could be if it happens in the middle of updating trusty's upstart to xenial's systemd-sysv (which contains /sbin/runlevel); but we need the full upgrade log to see what's going on
[11:06] <hikiko> and then everything crashes
[11:06] <hikiko> and with this bug it's not really easy to get a log
[11:06] <hikiko> I mean with the fs in that state
[11:07] <hikiko> dist-upgrade shows problems in packages
[11:07] <hikiko> maybe we should start from there
[11:07] <hikiko> solve the dependencies issues etc
[11:07] <hikiko> and then try update manager again
[11:07] <hikiko> and see if we still get the issue
[11:07] <pitti> you sohuld have /var/log/dist-upgrade/
[11:08] <hikiko> I think that some post upgrade script cant run for some reason and crashes the upgrade
[11:08] <pitti> right (apparently cron)
[11:08] <hikiko> yep
[11:08] <pitti> and we need to see when that happens, which package crahes, and what the unpack/cofigure state of init, upstart, systemd-sysv etc. is
[11:08] <pitti> and that should all be in /v/l/d-u/apt-term.log
[11:09] <hikiko> let me see if I can retrieve that log otherwise I ll dist upgrade 1 more time
[11:09] <hikiko> but unfortunately I can't help with packaging I don't understand much there
[11:09] <Sweet5hark> Laney: a/ some versions of gnome-documents apparently crash when libreoffice is installed, but liblibreofficekitgtk.so is missing
[11:09] <Sweet5hark> Laney: b/ we currently ship liblibreofficekitgtk.so in libreoffice-gtk3
[11:09] <Sweet5hark> Laney: c/ but libreoffice-gtk3 is still mostly experimental, isnt installed in the default install -- its basically only there for the adventurous to test it out, not for production use. LibreOffice picks it up by default over the (stable) -gtk2 backend though. This wasnt an issue as long as the only people installing libreoffice-gtk3 were doing so knowing they are in for a ride ...
[11:11] <Sweet5hark> oh, hang on. lemme see where rene moved liblibreofficekitgtk.so to ...
[11:16] <ricotz> Trevinho, hmm, bamf broke its abi
[11:17] <ricotz> https://paste.debian.net/plain/418005 you cant insert those new symbols you *must* append them at the end
[11:18] <Laney> Sweet5hark: I guess that liblibreofficekitgtk probably uses gtk3 specific stuff
[11:18] <Trevinho> ricotz: yeah... I just thought I missed that when you mentioned the abi breakage. -_-
[11:18] <Sweet5hark> Laney: yes. it is.
[11:19] <Laney> Sweet5hark: do you know if our version 3.18.2 is affected?
[11:19] <Trevinho> ricotz: would you mind providing a quick branch for fixing it?
[11:21] <ricotz> Trevinho, there are even more I guess :\
[11:21] <hikiko> pitti, history log: http://paste.ubuntu.com/15471444/ term: http://paste.ubuntu.com/15471449/
[11:22] <Trevinho> ricotz: no, only this one changed on lib side http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~unity-team/bamf/trunk/revision/625#lib/libbamf/bamf-view.h
[11:22] <Trevinho> I actually asked andyrock not to break the abi, but I didn't notice he used the wrong pos
[11:30] <Sweet5hark> Laney: Checking back with _rene_ right now. But yeah, that would be good: 3.18 isnt affected, it starts with 3.20 ...
[11:31] <Laney> luckyyyyy
[11:33] <davmor2> Laney: in system settings on the live desktop Display is Displays on the installed system it is called Screen Display, why is there a difference there?
[11:35] <Sweet5hark> Laney: and as homework please tell me how that will work next time around when LibreOffice is in a snap :D
[11:36] <davmor2> Sweet5hark: It's done with mirrors and magnets like all good magic ;)
[11:36] <Sweet5hark> davmor2: fairydust!
[11:36] <davmor2> Sweet5hark: but mostly misdirection
[11:37] <Laney> davmor2: I would guess it is translated like that
[11:37] <davmor2> Look a threeheaded Monkey, and there we go LibreOffice installed with no issues
[11:38] <davmor2> Laney: ah cool thanks hadn't thought of there
[11:38] <davmor2> that even
[11:39] <ricotz> Trevinho, https://code.launchpad.net/~ricotz/bamf/fix-abi , I am surprised this doesnt cause more trouble for me, although it isn't the source of my original problem
[11:39] <Laney> davmor2: try with LC_ALL=C.UTF-8 unity-control-center
[11:40] <davmor2> Laney: no it's fine there are a bunch of changes so locale makes perfect sense
[11:40] <Laney> 'k
[11:49] <pitti> hikiko: hm, there's no error in that log -- is that from a subsequent do-release-upgrade, after the initial failure?
[11:49] <Trevinho> ricotz: to see what could cause your issue you might check also "dbus-monitor --session --monitor "interface='org.gtk.gio.DesktopAppInfo'""
[11:49] <Trevinho> ricotz: it should tell you what bamf catches
[11:50] <Trevinho> together with gdbus monitor --session --dest org.ayatana.bamf
[11:51] <davmor2> jibel, willcooke: FFS pending install "Installation Failed, The installer encountered an unrecoverable error. A desktop session will now be run so that you may investigate the problem or try installing again."
[11:52] <jibel> davmor2, crap. grab the logs from /var/log/installer and /var/log/syslog
[11:52] <davmor2> this just isn't funny anymore
[11:52] <ricotz> Trevinho, thanks
[11:52] <davmor2> jibel: I'm waiting for it to get into desktop mode then It'll file a bug with that info in
[11:52] <jibel> davmor2, I think it's just you, you have a bad juju
[11:53] <willcooke> davmor2, jibel - slangask has said they'll help, just need to log bugs so they can take a look.
[11:53] <willcooke> I doubt it's something insurmountable
[11:54] <willcooke> also, thanks for testing it davmor2
[11:54] <jibel> right, no doubt we'll release something this week
[11:55] <ricotz> Trevinho, I found the problem
[11:55] <davmor2> Oh god even the terminal doesn't start on pending
[11:55] <Trevinho> ricotz: what's happening?
[11:56]  * davmor2 starts xterm
[11:56] <ricotz> Trevinho, I was using g_desktop_app_info_new_from_keyfile to reuse the object since I am doing some further parsing, of course this results in the passed desktop-filename being empty on the launch call
[11:57] <Trevinho> ricotz: ah, I see...
[11:57] <ricotz> Trevinho, so g_desktop_app_info_new_from_filename sets it
[11:57] <Trevinho> ricotz: however, I'm still wondering why this causes a bamfapp to be created
[11:57] <ricotz> sounds like a gio API problem for me ;)
[11:57] <Trevinho> ricotz: what you get when monitoring that call?
[11:57] <Trevinho> I mean, on dbus, what's get called?
[11:58] <Trevinho> since bamfdaemon should ignore the thing if desktop_file == NULL
[11:58] <Trevinho> ah.... wait, maybe it's an empty string.
[11:58] <hikiko> pitti, it seems that term.log wasn't updated in the last upgrade
[11:58] <ricotz> Trevinho, https://paste.debian.net/plain/418016
[11:59] <ricotz> Trevinho, it is an empty string yes
[12:00] <Trevinho> I think this is wrong (old code, not mine):
[12:00] <Trevinho>   matcher = bamf_matcher_get_default ();
[12:00] <Trevinho>   g_variant_get_child (parameters, 0, "^&ay", &desktop_file);
[12:00] <Trevinho>   g_variant_get_child (parameters, 2, "x", &pid);
[12:00] <Trevinho> we should check the value actually... I'll fix it in a bit
[12:01] <ricotz> Trevinho, still it shows a minor flaw in plank's source ;)
[12:02] <davmor2> jibel, willcooke, cyphermox: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1560459
[12:03] <ricotz> Trevinho, btw not sure what happens in GDesktopAppInfo for G_KEY_FILE_DESKTOP_TYPE_LINK G_KEY_FILE_DESKTOP_TYPE_DIRECTORY
[12:04] <jibel> davmor2, Mar 22 11:49:14 ubuntu ubiquity[1614]: GLib.GError: vte-pty-error: grantpt failed: Operation not permitted (1)
[12:04] <jibel> did something change recently with the vte
[12:05] <davmor2> jibel: might explain why the terminal app doesn't open also
[12:05] <jibel> davmor2, yes same reason
[12:11] <jibel> davmor2, there is new vte on 16.03
[12:11] <jibel> willcooke, not a slangasek thing but for your team
[12:15] <willcooke> Laney, ^ any thoughts on this vte-pty-error ^^?  Note: it's running from the pending ISO
[12:15] <davmor2> jibel: http://people.canonical.com/~davmor2/desktop-screenshots/terminal-error.png who knew copy paste didn't work in xterm well where there is a will :D
[12:16] <davmor2> willcooke: ^ the terminal opening error
[12:16] <jibel> willcooke, I'll ask nuclearbob to force the promotion to current once there is a valid image
[12:17] <jibel> willcooke, automated smoketest are currently failing due to some ssh issue
[12:17] <davmor2> jibel: yeah it probably can't start the service or a terminal to test it :D
[12:18] <Laney> davmor2: /usr/lib/gnome-terminal/gnome-terminal-server
[12:20] <davmor2> Laney: Locale not supported
[12:20] <Laney> locale; locale -a
[12:23] <Laney> never mind I can see this too
[12:23] <Laney> needless to say this is not a vte problem
[12:25] <ricotz> Trevinho, is there an eta when the fixed bamf will hit the archive since pushing my fixes will result in builds against a broken abi
[12:33] <GunnarHj> Hi Laney, since it's final beta times, I'm worrying about the seed MP:s at bug #1468027. lubuntu-desktop and kubuntu-desktop depends on/recommends fonts-droid which no longer exists in the Xenial archive.
[12:38] <davmor2> Laney: indeed
[12:40] <davmor2> Laney: so what do I file that bug against
[12:48] <Laney> davmor2: glibc probably, just pinged in devel
[12:48] <Laney> GunnarHj: yeah the sponsoring queue looks worrying in general
[12:50] <GunnarHj> Laney: Right. Isn't that going to result in problems with the beta releases?
[12:51] <davmor2> Laney: le sigh, and what about the vte issue that is making cyphermox cry as ubiquity doesn't run?
[12:52] <Laney> what vte issue?
[12:53] <davmor2> Laney: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1560459
[12:54] <davmor2> Laney: it was that issue that uncovered the none starting terminal
[13:01] <Laney> davmor2: don't know, if you use sudo it starts
[13:05] <willcooke> ah ha!
[13:06] <willcooke> Seems that GtkBox doesn't support padding unless it's in a frame
[13:07] <cyphermox> Laney: yeah, it says "grantpt" which ought to mean something about granting something else.
[13:07] <Laney> cyphermox: hahaha
[13:07] <cyphermox> ;)
[13:07] <Laney> great sentence
[13:07] <cyphermox> I write good.
[13:07] <cyphermox> I also write goof
[13:08] <Laney> reverting vte changes nothing
[13:08] <Laney> I call external factor
[13:08] <cyphermox> I agree
[13:10] <Trevinho> ricotz: I also have to add unity to the silo and rebuild it...
[13:17] <cyphermox> Laney: I'll compare with previous images and we'll find what changed
[13:20] <Laney> cyphermox: glibx
[13:20] <Laney> c
[13:20] <Laney> just downgraded it
[13:21] <cyphermox> that alone?
[13:21] <Laney> well I didn't re-upgrade vte
[13:21] <Laney> but doubt that makes a difference :)
[13:21] <cyphermox> I am kind of surprised it is glibc tbh
[13:21] <cyphermox> but oh well ;)
[13:23] <Laney> that's where grantpt comes from
[13:23] <cyphermox> ah, that changes things
[13:24] <cyphermox> well, I'm sure infinity knows all about it
[13:24] <Laney> suggest you confirm though
[13:24] <andyrock> hey all
[13:25] <willcooke> hi andyrock
[13:37] <Trevinho> ricotz: can you check https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/bamf/ignore-desktopless-preregistration/+merge/289792 ?
[13:37] <Trevinho> andyrock: too  ^
[13:55] <desrt> this is awesome
[13:55] <desrt> i'm working in a cafe this morning.. the one in my building, i've often been here before
[13:55] <desrt> they got a new wifi and in the ssid it says "1 hour guest"
[13:56] <desrt> i connect, start using it, no captive portals, everything works.... i start wondering "hmm.. how does this 1 hour guest thing work..."
[13:56] <qengho> desrt: Subtle1
[13:56] <desrt> after almost an hour of using it i open the news to take a quick look and hit a captive portal page
[13:56] <willcooke> mac changer time
[13:56] <desrt> ... oh.. is my hour up?...
[13:56] <desrt> no....
[13:57] <desrt> turns out that it redirects http traffic to the captive portal page
[13:57] <desrt> and lets everything else (https included) straight through
[13:57] <willcooke> hahaha
[13:57] <willcooke> sweet
[14:02] <qengho> I work out of a cafe once a week or so. Put on trousers, pretend not to be a hermit. You know. Well, one cafe I used attached to a hospital blocked everything not part of "web" usage. I had to set my home machine to listen to port 443 for ssh. It's the only port they don't try to mess with.
[14:03] <andyrock> willcooke Laney do we need to put xserver-xorg-lts-wily-dev in unity-trusty/debian as a required dependecy? i had problem building it because of it
[14:04] <desrt> qengho: i moved my linode over to ssh on port 443 ages ago.  never looked back.
[14:04] <desrt> this, plus socks proxy support in ssh makes for smooth surfing
[14:06] <Laney> andyrock: umm I don't think so
[14:06] <andyrock> k
[14:08] <Laney> maybe Trevinho knows?
[14:10] <Trevinho> andyrock: trusty version needs that :o?
[14:10] <andyrock> yeah basically if i do apt-get build-dep unity
[14:10] <andyrock> it fails
[14:11] <Trevinho> andyrock: I build unity without that...
[14:11] <Trevinho> andyrock: try with just sudo mk-build-deps -i
[14:11] <andyrock> because it requires xservser.xorg-dev
[14:11] <andyrock> ah ok
[14:11] <andyrock> but build-deps should work too ;)
[14:11] <Trevinho> ah... wait that might because it's trusty 14.04.04
[14:11] <Trevinho> thus...
[14:11] <Trevinho> it has xserver-xorg-lts-wily installed by default maybe
[14:12] <Trevinho> which I don't in my trusty install
[14:12] <Laney> probably something weird if you build it in an existing system
[14:12] <Laney> sbuild/pbuilder would be ok with the existing ones I should think
[14:12] <andyrock> nope i installed it from the last available iso
[14:13] <Trevinho> that's the thing
[14:14] <ricotz> Trevinho, regarding https://bugs.launchpad.net/bamf/+bug/1560486 -- the version of bamf is at 0.5.3
[14:14] <Laney> man
[14:15] <Laney> glib is still hanging
[14:15] <Laney> even with a new kernel
[14:16] <Trevinho> ricotz: I know, but I've to do the milestone for that... Although I'd probably just remove the upstream handling of bugs in bamf as well.
[14:17] <Trevinho> ricotz: I'll migrate these once I've an upstream release though
[14:17]  * Laney cries
[14:17]  * Laney goes to cry into a bowl of curry
[14:17] <Trevinho> curry tears...
[14:18] <Trevinho> It might be a new successful recipe
[14:23] <desrt> Laney: mmm
[14:23] <desrt> Laney: yr makin me hungry and it's not even 10:30 yet
[14:32] <ricotz> Trevinho, alright
[14:55] <qengho> Anybody seen this before? "Inconsistency detected by ld.so: dl-open.c: 691: _dl_open: Assertion `_dl_debug_initialize (0, args.nsid)->r_state == RT_CONSISTENT' failed!"
[15:03] <willcooke> Anyone know if I can write a CSS rule to only match a specific application?  I've made some changes to the toggle buttons for Rhythmbox and I wonder if I need to limit it to only rb, and if I do - how to do that
[15:03] <willcooke> I don't see anything specific in the selector tool in the inspector for rb
[15:06] <willcooke> the button has a "buildable ID" but not a name it seems
[15:13] <Sweet5hark> qengho: your dynamic linker is angry? fun!
[15:13] <qengho> Usually my angry linker is dynamic.
[15:14] <qengho> Sweet5hark: it's some snappy hackery and probably my fault.
[15:15] <Sweet5hark> qengho: thought so, but no -- I havent seen that one before ...
[15:30] <willcooke> woah, that crept up quickly...
[15:31] <willcooke> #startmeeting Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-03-22
[15:31] <meetingology> Meeting started Tue Mar 22 15:31:17 2016 UTC.  The chair is willcooke. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[15:31] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[15:31] <willcooke> Roll call:  andyrock, attente, desrt,  dgadomski, fjkong, happyaron, hikiko (out), laney, qengho, seb128 (hols), sweet5hark, themuso (out), tkamppeter, trevinho, robert_ancell (out)
[15:31] <Sweet5hark> aye
[15:31] <desrt> hi
[15:31] <andyrock> hi
[15:32] <Trevinho> hey hey
[15:32] <FJKong> hi
[15:33] <happyaron> hey
[15:34] <willcooke> Let's get started then
[15:34] <willcooke> #topic andyrock
[15:34] <andyrock> hey
[15:34] <andyrock> i've been working on completing some branches from the past weeks
[15:34] <andyrock> reviews
[15:34] <andyrock> and now working on the crash
[15:35] <andyrock> i managed to get a crash but gdb crashed too
[15:35] <willcooke> hehe
[15:35] <andyrock> i'm trying to get a core file
[15:35] <andyrock> and more debug info from compiz
[15:35] <andyrock> but the vm is kind of messed up
[15:36] <willcooke> super, thanks andyrock.  Please make that #1 priority.  hikiko is looking as well, if you can take the lead on that bug and let hikiko know the best thing to do to help that would be good.
[15:36] <andyrock> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/kxQlPlKR/
[15:36] <willcooke> rather than duplicating effort
[15:36] <andyrock> sure thing
[15:36] <andyrock> looks like memory corruption
[15:36] <willcooke> Let's chat again tomorrow afternoon and see what we know.  Beta is looming, so would be good to get that nailed down asap.
[15:37] <willcooke> davmor2, cyphermox - FYI.  andyrock will be leading the upgrade crash investigation, so please sync with him if you need any info / have a new discovery
[15:37] <andyrock> sure
[15:38] <willcooke> great, thanks andyrock
[15:38] <willcooke> #topic attente
[15:38] <attente> more gnome-software bugs, updating the appstream index on first install, as well as some other crashers
[15:39] <attente> looked into the GS gapplication situation with desrt, will commit some quick fixes, but might need to do some major rewriting to properly fix
[15:39] <attente> (eof)
[15:39] <willcooke> good stuff, thanks attente
[15:39] <willcooke> #topic desrt
[15:39] <Laney> attente: are you booked for the sprint?
[15:39] <desrt> the usual bugs, reviews, etc.
[15:40] <willcooke> Laney, still waiting on the budget ack
[15:40] <desrt> getting into time-consuming arguments with people via email who consider the ability to seed a pseudo-random number generator to be a "backdoor"
[15:40] <desrt> paying more attention to gnome-software and trying to pus it towards being a more typical gtkapplication user to solve some of the problems we've been seeing
[15:40] <desrt> a couple of releases will be out today
[15:40] <desrt> eof
[15:41] <willcooke> thanks desrt, and thanks for the input to g-s
[15:41] <willcooke> #topic dgadomski
[15:41] <dgadomski> hey, unfortunately nothing to share, took a couple of days off last week.
[15:41] <dgadomski> That's it, thanks.
[15:41] <willcooke> :) cheers dgadomski
[15:41] <willcooke> #topic FJKong
[15:41] <FJKong> 1 Test sogou im inputing Chinese in TeXmacs.
[15:41] <FJKong> if fullscreen then candidate word window will not right
[15:41] <FJKong> 2 Could not login into Desktop after input password. Reported by user
[15:41] <FJKong> one is caused by evnorinment problem, still other user report this bug.
[15:41] <FJKong> 3 Cannot input Chinese characters into TextField in a QML application
[15:41] <FJKong> needs ubuntu-sdk team guys to confirm environment not take effect
[15:42] <FJKong> eof
[15:42] <Laney> can I go next pls
[15:42] <willcooke> thanks FJKong
[15:42] <willcooke> #topic Laney
[15:42] <Laney> need to run downstairs quickly /o\
[15:42] <Laney> thanks
[15:42] <Laney> • I worked on a branch for appstream-dep11 that fixes packages not appearing in the release when they migrate out of proposed
[15:42] <Laney> • Looked at some FFes including ones I was pinged about
[15:42] <Laney> • Gave some advice on icon stuff for appstream - there are a few requests that need attention in the sponsor queue now
[15:42] <Laney> • Looked at some live CD bugs which both turned out to be introduced by the new glibc /o\
[15:42] <Laney> • Helped Gunnar with some yelp fixes & did some investigation there
[15:42] <Laney> • New gvfs, glib (this build hangs on s390x, not sure why, so it's stuck in xenial-proposed), gstreamer
[15:42] <Laney> • Gave some maybe not so helpful help with gnome-terminal theming
[15:42] <Laney> ἧ
[15:43] <willcooke> :) thanks Laney
[15:43] <willcooke> yeah, I don't think those fixes are going to do the job.  I'm still keen on disabling that box.  Will email you more details anon
[15:43] <willcooke> #topic happyaron
[15:43] <happyaron> hey
[15:43] <happyaron> 1. Guest session apparmor for input methods (fcitx, mozc)
[15:43] <happyaron> 2. Yet another update to zfs-linux/spl-linux
[15:43] <happyaron> 3. Sponsor uploads: sdcc, ubuntukylin-theme
[15:43] <happyaron> 4. In-progress: ubuntukylin-wallpapers
[15:43] <happyaron> 5. Will go to Changsha on Wed for mini-sprint with NUDT
[15:43] <happyaron> EOF
[15:44] <willcooke> thanks happyaron
[15:44] <willcooke> #topic hikiko
[15:44] <willcooke> * ezoom:
[15:44] <willcooke> - fixed a bug in the translation matrices caused by the different coordinate systems we use in ezoom and unity ([-1, 1] vs pixel coordinates)
[15:44] <willcooke> - working on another transformation bug
[15:44] <willcooke> * "compiz crashes during update" bug:
[15:44] <willcooke> - it seems that the compiz crash is the result of another dist-upgrade problem and we have to find out what crashes the upgrade to fix it.
[15:44] <willcooke> EOF
[15:44] <hikiko> jey
[15:44] <hikiko> hey
[15:44] <hikiko> I just noticed something!
[15:44] <willcooke> ha, already pasted for you :)
[15:44] <hikiko> http://imgur.com/a/ahswl
[15:44] <hikiko> the paste of andyrock
[15:44] <hikiko> shows a libc corruption
[15:45] <hikiko> and my first screenshot shows
[15:45] <willcooke> oki, can you follow up after the meeting has ended pls?  Sounds like progress though
[15:45] <hikiko> sorry :)
[15:45] <willcooke> no worries
[15:45] <hikiko> ok
[15:45] <willcooke> :)
[15:45] <willcooke> #topic qengho
[15:45] <qengho> Howdy!
[15:45] <qengho> - Chromium snap still in progress. Debugging ld.so assertion crash. Help?!
[15:45] <qengho> - Made another snap, to prove to myself my workflow is right. 13 users. Yay!
[15:45] <qengho> - Chromium 49 uploaded. Should fix some default-browser complaints.
[15:45] <qengho> EOF
[15:45] <willcooke> Great, thanks qengho
[15:46] <willcooke> I assume you know about #snappy on freenode?
[15:46] <willcooke> that's where all the cool kids hangout
[15:46] <qengho> Yep. I'm there.
[15:46] <willcooke> if you don't get anywhere I can raise it in my meeting with them tomorrow, let me know
[15:46] <qengho> Not that I'm a cool kid....
[15:46] <willcooke> :D
[15:47] <willcooke> #topic seb128
[15:47] <willcooke> Being on holiday
[15:47] <willcooke> - updated software-properties to not depends on unattended-upgrades,
[15:47] <willcooke> some users want to uninstall it
[15:47] <willcooke> - fixed nautilus sidebar code to work with the new GTK
[15:47] <willcooke> - fixed rhythmbox issue where pause would display a notification
[15:47] <willcooke> - some small sessioninstaller fixes (typo, missing depends)
[15:47] <willcooke> - set X-Ubuntu-Use-Langpack for evolution since it's universe, should
[15:47] <willcooke> restore some missing strings translations
[15:47] <willcooke> - updated gnome-calendar
[15:47] <willcooke> - looked at some gnome-software issues, reported bugs with debug
[15:47] <willcooke> info/suggestions
[15:47] <willcooke> - updated the defaults mimetype handlers list for gnome-software
[15:47] <willcooke> - patch pilot shift
[15:47] <willcooke> - the usual share of bug triage/reviews/meetings/etc
[15:47] <willcooke> #topic Sweet5hark
[15:47] <Sweet5hark> - updated xenial to 5.1.1 rc3 = final
[15:47] <Sweet5hark> - allowed XUbuntu folks to have libreoffice-style-elementary as an alternative to libreoffice-style-breeze
[15:47] <Sweet5hark> - backported master patch for unity menu integration (bug 1559135)
[15:47] <Sweet5hark> - release notes
[15:47] <Sweet5hark> - reviewed upsteam tender replies/job applicants/projects, usual calls, some review of other peoples patches
[15:47] <Sweet5hark> - pushed some 40-50 refactoring/cleanup patches upstream (delta: killed some 600 LOC)
[15:47] <Sweet5hark> - some snappy work (included help l10n, postgresql)
[15:47] <Sweet5hark> - checked situation around gnome-documents - libreoffice deps, seems to be ok.
[15:47] <Sweet5hark> - fixed a regression upstream (tdf#95977)
[15:47] <Sweet5hark> EOF
[15:48] <willcooke> thanks Sweet5hark
[15:48] <willcooke> #topic TheMuso
[15:48] <willcooke> * Testing and fixing accessibility profile manager bugs, still not in main, but can test by building custom install images, should have the last bugs sorted this week.
[15:48] <willcooke> * Doing upgrade tests in a VM, and those upgrades failing in different ways, haven't tried to get logs out of the VM yet.
[15:48] <willcooke> #topic tkamppeter
[15:48] <tkamppeter> - Google Summer of Code 2016: Communication with students and with upstream maintainers to define the projects to be done this Summer. Main project will be the integration of the lightweight PDF interpreter MuPDF in the printing stack, to replace Poppler and Ghostscript on mobile devices.
[15:48] <tkamppeter> - cups-filters: Small bug fixes.
[15:48] <tkamppeter> - Bugs.
[15:49] <willcooke> thanks tkamppeter
[15:49] <willcooke> #topic Trevinho
[15:49] <Trevinho> · Improvements to BAMF startup-notification support
[15:49] <Trevinho> · Fixes to the Gtk unity border radius patch
[15:49] <Trevinho> · Add overlay numbers to all windowed icons in launcher
[15:49] <Trevinho> · Fixed an HiDPI regression in lockscreen prompt view
[15:49] <Trevinho> · Client-leader fixes for force-quit dialog
[15:49] <Trevinho> · Working on some improvements to the hikiko's shaped windows branch
[15:49] <Trevinho> · Decoration of panel/launcher in spread mode, some initial work
[15:49] <Trevinho> · Reviews
[15:49] <Trevinho> · Landed all the FFes (Launcher at the bottom, startup notifications)
[15:49] <Trevinho> ...
[15:50] <willcooke> thanks Trevinho
[15:50] <willcooke> #topic robert_ancell
[15:50] <willcooke> GNOME Software
[15:50] <willcooke> #topic willcooke
[15:50] <willcooke> Reviews - nearly done for the year.  Yay
[15:50] <willcooke> Themes
[15:50] <willcooke>  - Got Gedit mostly complete.  Just need to decided what to do with the actions bar
[15:51] <willcooke>  - General notebook theme mostly compete. Need to merge what I can in from Terminal
[15:51] <willcooke> s/gedit/termincal
[15:51] <willcooke>  - Rhythmbox - done needs sign off from design
[15:51] <willcooke> Slideshow
[15:51] <willcooke>  - Got animal and making sceeenshots.  Very slight changes to the text.
[15:51] <willcooke> Snappy
[15:52] <willcooke>  - Many things.  All of which fun.
[15:52] <willcooke> #topic any other business
[15:52] <willcooke> Sprint!
[15:52] <willcooke> The design team are having a sprint with the U8 guys at the same time and same place as us.
[15:52] <willcooke> There will be a good chance to chat with them about general desktop requirements
[15:53] <willcooke> Final Beta
[15:53] <willcooke> ZOMG
[15:53] <Laney> Yeah that's this week
[15:53] <willcooke> Please prioritise install / upgrade crashers where ever you can.  I'd like to see a smooth upgrade from 14.04 -> 16.04 in time for the final beta.
[15:53] <davmor2> willcooke: you say ZOMG like you can't install or upgrade to it
[15:54] <Laney> like in two days this week
[15:54] <willcooke> No small task, so let me know if we need more/different people - please let me know, we have the offer of help from kgunn
[15:54] <Laney> like the archive is already frozen
[15:54] <qengho> cking: Is there any hope of grub and zfs update?
[15:54] <willcooke> well - olli said kgunn will be able to help us :P
[15:55] <willcooke> So andyrock, no pressure ;)
[15:55] <cking> qengho, i'm waiting for <IP_ADDRESS> to be tagged and I'll then get that packaged,tested and pushed out sometime this week if I can
[15:55] <Laney> willcooke: I'm a bit worried about changing things like buttons in the terminal after the final beta and feature freeze and user interface freeze :/
[15:55]  * kgunn crawls from under rock
[15:55] <willcooke> kgunn, sorry for the spam - nothing to see here
[15:55] <qengho> cking: I'm glad you're back!
[15:55] <cking> me too ;-)
[15:56] <willcooke> Laney, can we SRU them in later?  Which is least bad?
[15:57] <Laney> Leaving it as is now?
[15:57] <Laney> Is this an actual *bug*?
[15:57] <willcooke> IMO, yes
[15:57] <Laney> like the linked buttons theming definitely is
[15:58] <willcooke> on it
[15:58] <willcooke> Anyone got other business?
[15:58]  * desrt looks around
[15:59]  * willcooke waits for the clock to tick over on the hour
[16:00] <willcooke> #endmeeting
[16:00] <meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Mar 22 16:00:01 2016 UTC.
[16:00] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2016/ubuntu-desktop.2016-03-22-15.31.moin.txt
[16:00] <willcooke> thanks all
[16:00] <willcooke> hikiko, please continue re: screenshot...
[16:00] <muktupavels> Trevinho: Do you plan to make libwnck 3.20 release?
[16:00] <muktupavels> Trevinho: https://git.gnome.org/browse/libwnck/log/?h=wip/muktupavels/gnome-3-20
[16:01] <hikiko> http://imgur.com/a/ahswl <- the first screenshot
[16:01] <hikiko> I recorded the upgrade because after the crash there were no log files
[16:01] <hikiko> and after libc upgrades
[16:02] <hikiko> cmanager and other programs that have dependencies on libc crash
[16:02] <hikiko> and in the pastebin link of andyrock
[16:03] <hikiko> I noticed that there's a libc corruption too compiz can't find libc
[16:04] <hikiko> so I suspect that because libc upgrade crashes and most programs depend on it they crash too
[16:04] <hikiko> maybe we have to check the dependencies etc
[16:05] <hikiko> of the libc package and the upgrade order
[16:07] <Trevinho> muktupavels: I could, but... Do we really need to increase the gtk dependency? A part from removing deprecated calls, I mean.
[16:08] <muktupavels> trevinho: GdkSeat is available starting with 3.19.5
[16:08] <Trevinho> yeah, I saw that
[16:08] <Trevinho> but I don't see you're using any feature of that as for now
[16:10] <muktupavels> I just replaced deprecated GdkDeviceManager with GdkSeat...
[16:15] <Trevinho> yeah, I see... It's just that I think it's the same thing for now. A part from muting compiler warns, there sno real gain in using the new API imho. While that lib might be needed by some legacy systems using older gtk
[16:16] <Trevinho> muktupavels: I've also given a look at your compiz branches for tests (many thanks!), but I'm getting the tests hanging here... So I need to look further to what happens
[16:16] <Trevinho> muktupavels: have you experienced anything like that?
[16:16] <muktupavels> Trevinho: legacy apps that use older gtk will use older libwnck, no?
[16:17] <muktupavels> Trevinho: building with pbuilder-dist all tests worked, but building locally I had ~30 failed tests...
[16:17] <Trevinho> They could, but they also might need some feature from new one... And in the past libwnck has always been a little detached from normal gnome cycles, but I'm not saying I'm against that. It's just that we can keep things more relaxed.
[16:17] <Trevinho> It all depends in what we really need to do with it
[16:18] <Trevinho> muktupavels: yeah, I've been testing it in both an lxd container and locally and got the same failures. Plus the same in the silo: https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/ubuntu/landing-056/+build/9380558/+files/buildlog_ubuntu-xenial-amd64.compiz_1%3A<IP_ADDRESS>+16.04.20160321-0ubuntu1_BUILDING.txt.gz
[16:19] <Trevinho> armhf was the only arch that worked... Weirdly.
[16:21] <muktupavels> Trevinho: are tests enabled also on armhf? there is comment - # right now, xorg-gtest won't compile on arm.
[16:22] <Trevinho> muktupavels: maybe not everyone, but some ran: https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/ubuntu/landing-056/+build/9380560/+files/buildlog_ubuntu-xenial-armhf.compiz_1%3A<IP_ADDRESS>+16.04.20160321-0ubuntu1_BUILDING.txt.gz
[17:34] <GunnarHj> happyaron: Hi Aron. "regression for Chinese" - how?
[17:41] <willcooke> Sweet5hark, is this the correct default theme for LO?  http://imgur.com/a0bZfZO
[17:43] <Sweet5hark> willcooke: in general, yes. but you seem to have libreoffice-gtk3 installed?
[17:43] <willcooke> Sweet5hark, ah, probably because I installed this machine a while ago?
[17:44] <Sweet5hark> (as I see a classic menu and IIRC the toolbars in gtk2 have light background as they should)
[17:44] <willcooke> Sweet5hark, is there an easy way to install the other version?
[17:45] <Sweet5hark> willcooke: there was a transient dependency on libreoffice-gtk3 in early xenial, yes. It should be gone now and new installs and upgrades directly from wily/trusty should not pull in libreoffice-gtk3
[17:45] <willcooke> libreoffice-gtk perhaps?
[17:45] <Sweet5hark> willcooke: just "apt remove libreoffice-gtk3"
[17:45] <Sweet5hark> willcooke: libreoffice-gtk should still be installed and libreoffice should use it once libreoffice-gtk3 is gone.
[17:46] <willcooke> yaya!
[17:46] <willcooke> thanks Sweet5hark
[17:46] <Laney> ogra_: is this normal https://paste.ubuntu.com/15473751/ ?
[17:46] <willcooke> Sweet5hark, ohhh much better!
[17:47] <ogra_> Laney, thats a mvo/Chipaca question
[17:47] <ogra_> but you perhaps rather want ubuntu-snappy-cli
[17:47] <muktupavels> Trevinho: When GTK+ 3.20 will be uploaded libwnck will need rebuild to get css names working, no? And if libwnck is built against GTK+ 3.20 then it will not work with older GTK+ versions (because there will be no *_set_css_name). I fail to see how increased required version could cause problems...
[17:47] <Laney> this is the thing that they want to seed
[17:48] <ogra_> well, i was told (in the bug) it would just be a metapackage that pulls in -cli
[17:48] <ogra_> seemingly it isnt
[17:48]  * ogra_ doesnt do any snappy development on the snappy code ... thats all happeneing in some telegram group nowadays, so hard to follow)
[17:49] <Laney> awesome
[17:49] <ogra_> try asking Chipaca or mvo
[17:49]  * Laney goes to #snappy
[18:04] <Laney> ttyl
[18:32] <willcooke> oops
[18:33] <willcooke> I just did a bzr add *
[18:33] <willcooke> when really I wanted to add only some files
[18:33] <willcooke> can I undo that add * easily?
[18:37] <ogra_> bzr revert ?
[18:37] <willcooke> will I lose my other changes then?
[18:37] <ogra_> hmm, if you didnt commit inbetween you will, yes
[18:37] <ogra_> (unless you do a revert for only the added files ... i.e. file by file)
[18:38] <willcooke> meh
[18:38] <willcooke> it's only a dozen files or so that I need to add
[18:38] <willcooke> so I think I'll just mv the dir, branch again and then move them back
[18:38] <willcooke> thx ogra_
[18:38] <ogra_> np
[18:39] <attente> willcooke: you could try committing and then uncommitting maybe
[18:40] <attente> actually.. nvm. i'm not sure if that actually undoes the add
[18:40] <willcooke> yeah
[18:41] <willcooke> no worries, I've just copied the files in to a new branch
[18:54] <willcooke> cyphermox, MP up for slideshow.... https://code.launchpad.net/~willcooke/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/+merge/289826
[18:54]  * willcooke will email the doc team now
[18:54] <willcooke> s/doc/translators
[18:56] <willcooke> GunnarHj, just seen your email on the doc team ML.  Did you get a master animal file?  I have an SVG here I can put somewhere useful
[18:57] <cyphermox> willcooke: thanks
[19:03] <cyphermox> willcooke: would you ask on #ubuntu-release if you need any freeze exception for the slideshow changes?
[19:03] <willcooke> cyphermox, sure thing
[19:11] <willcooke> cyphermox, moving the conversation here to save noise in release
[19:12] <willcooke> I changed "Ubuntu Software Center" to "included Software center"
[19:12] <willcooke> since it's not USC any more
[19:12] <willcooke> but I think it *is* still "The" Ubuntu software center
[19:12] <willcooke> what do you think?
[19:13] <willcooke> maybe we don't need to change that at all, and then no work for translators
[19:17] <cyphermox> up to you
[19:17] <cyphermox> how is it showing in the Dash?
[19:18] <willcooke> "Software"
[19:18] <cyphermox> hrm
[19:19] <cyphermox> well, the test script doesn't work for me
[19:21] <willcooke> oh
[19:21] <willcooke> wfm
[19:21] <willcooke> maybe I missed a file
[19:22] <willcooke> lemme branch my branch in to tmp and see if it works there
[19:23] <willcooke> bah
[19:25] <willcooke> cyphermox, fixed
[19:26] <cyphermox> yeah it was just missing all the pngs
[19:27] <willcooke> so before I push this again, any thoughts on that text... I'm thinking that I will change it back to Ubuntu software center
[19:28] <cyphermox> well, it's just Gnome Software
[19:28] <cyphermox> to me, it's up to you, either way is fine
[19:28] <willcooke> I was thinking more of the concept of an Ubuntu Store
[19:28] <cyphermox> it depends a lot more on how it titles itself
[19:28] <cyphermox> ie. when running if it says "Software center" then we should use that
[19:29] <willcooke> oh, I should change the LO icons too....
[19:33] <willcooke> .. no they are the same
[19:48] <willcooke> cyphermox, done: https://code.launchpad.net/~willcooke/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/+merge/289831
[19:48] <willcooke> sorry for the faff
[19:50] <willcooke> no no no no
[19:50] <willcooke> ffs
[19:55] <willcooke> cyphermox, oki, last time I think....
[19:55] <willcooke> https://code.launchpad.net/~willcooke/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/+merge/289835
[19:55] <willcooke> I've updated the pot files this time.
[19:55] <willcooke> I suck.
[19:55] <cyphermox> good to review now?
[19:56] <willcooke> cyphermox, yeah.  Sorry :(
[19:58] <cyphermox> willcooke: hey, I'm not complaining. I can understand starting things over again, I like being careful
[19:59] <cyphermox> now the slideshow looks so tasty I want to lick it
[20:03] <willcooke> \o/
[20:03] <willcooke> cyphermox, do I need to do anything now to make it merge, or is that auto magic?
[20:05] <cyphermox> the magic is already happening, I'm doing the merge
[20:05] <willcooke> ha, nice one.  Thanks cyphermox
[20:05] <cyphermox> np.
[20:24] <GunnarHj> willcooke: Hi, I just saw your message to the ubuntu-translators list. Haven't seen the name "Ubuntu Software Store" anywhere else; just "Software".
[20:24] <willcooke> "Software" is the app, "Ubuntu Software Store" is the entity
[20:24] <GunnarHj> willcooke: Ok, that makes sense. Probably. ;)
[20:25] <willcooke> :)
[20:25] <willcooke> GunnarHj, do you still need that animal image?
[20:25] <GunnarHj> willcooke: Yes, indeed.
[20:26] <GunnarHj> willcooke: Do you have access to it?
[20:27] <willcooke> Yeah, design sent me an svg to use in the slideshow (after they sent me a 300 x 300 px jpg)
[20:27] <willcooke> I'll forward you the email I got...
[20:27] <GunnarHj> willcooke: Excellent, thanks!
[20:28] <GunnarHj> willcooke<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[20:28] <willcooke> GunnarHj, thx
[20:28] <willcooke> GunnarHj, you've got mail
[20:29] <GunnarHj> willcooke: Yep, got it.
[20:40] <willcooke> quittin' time.  Night all
[20:46] <GunnarHj> exit


[00:22] <cjwatson> ev: hm, if you committed a fix for bug 738366 11 hours ago, shouldn't it have been closed by the most recent ubiquity upload?
[00:22] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 738366 in ubiquity ""Erase Natty" wording DANGEROUSLY misleading" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/738366
[00:22] <ev> I don't think I marked it as fixes, but I'm keen to test it a bit further before I let people assume that they're safe
[00:23] <cjwatson> hm, OK, could use a bug comment to explain the status then :)
[00:23] <cjwatson> thanks
[00:23] <ev> will do
[00:32] <jcole> hi cjwatson
[00:33] <jcole> im trying to preseed maverick so all repos are added to sources.list... when autoinstalling, we have some post install scripts which install internal packages that depend on *verse packages
[00:33] <cjwatson> jcole: what installer image are you using?
[00:34] <jcole> remastered mini.iso
[00:34] <cjwatson> that's not a sufficient answer - which flavour of mini.iso?
[00:34] <cjwatson> netboot, cdrom, hd-media, ...
[00:36] <jcole> cjwatson: /Ubuntu/dists/maverick/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/mini.iso
[00:37] <jcole> and of course s/i386/amd64 for the 64bit iso
[00:38] <cjwatson> ok, can you show me your preseed file (minus any passwords) and your installer syslog please?
[00:38]  * jcole finds it
[00:43] <ev> lp:~ev/ubiquity/moar-tests is pretty much usable.  It just needs a bit more polish before I'm comfortable merging it in.
[00:44] <ev> I'd also like to integrate it into the rules such that it causes the build to fail, much in the same way the shell script syntax check does
[00:44] <ev> otherwise I fear it will bit rot with time
[00:45] <ev> with a --disable-tests flag, of course
[00:45] <ev> (oh, and ./tests/run is the magic rune)
[00:45] <ev> right, bed
[00:46] <jcole> cjwatson: see here -> http://pastebin.com/4f3Hgh2z
[00:47] <cjwatson> (awaiting syslog)
[00:47] <ev> oh and I'm also going to add in coverage.py html reports soonish as an optional argument
[00:50]  * jcole chuckles and boots the vm
[00:50] <jcole> cjwatson: its a vbox instance fyi
[00:52] <cjwatson> shouldn't matter
[00:53] <jcole> cjwatson: /var/log/syslog -> http://pastebin.com/Zw2WGcgm
[00:54] <jcole> cjwatson: it used to be that you would enable a source like this in previous ubuntus:
[00:54] <jcole> d-i apt-setup/multiverse boolean true
[00:54] <cjwatson> jcole: no, that's the syslog from the installed system.  I need the syslog from the installer.  If you've completed the installation, you'll find it in /var/log/installer/syslog.
[00:55] <jcole> now its multiselect
[00:55] <jcole> ah
[00:55] <cjwatson> no, you're almost certainly preseeding the wrong thing; mirror/udeb/components is almost certainly irrelevant to you.  I want to read your logs to figure out what's actually wrong.
[01:00] <jcole> cjwatson: tell you what, i have to go home now, so ill dig into that log tonight and see if i can figure it out myself... if i do, ill give you a ring here tomorrow and tell you how proud i am of myself... and if i don't, ill give you a ring anyways and tell you im a failure ;)
[01:01] <cjwatson> jcole: sure - I can tell you up-front that universe and multiverse are still enabled by default
[01:01] <cjwatson> jcole: mirror/udeb/components is just for internal stuff in the installer, and won't matter for post-install scripts
[01:01] <cjwatson> so I think you're likely missing some error
[01:01] <jcole> cjwatson: very interesting... my preseed may be borking something then...
[01:03] <jcole> cjwatson: see you tomorrow, thanks a million
[06:02] <superm1> cjwatson, are you able to glance through https://bugs.launchpad.net/dell/+bug/735831 ?  I've proposed a grub patch in the end that seems to finally solve it and wanted to get your take on it
[06:02] <ubot2> superm1: Error: <Bugtracker.plugin.Launchpad instance at 0x993484c> bug 735831 not found
[07:26] <cjwatson> superm1: no such bug, or else I'm not subscribed
[07:28] <StevenK> cjwatson: LP changed very recently in regards to that: private bugs are now 404, not 401
[07:33] <cjwatson> superm1: also, if it's non-trivial, I should only look at it if you have FSF copyright assignment papers sorted out, or can get them; otherwise it would be better to describe the fix to me in general terms and have me implement it independently
[13:26] <superm1> cjwatson, i think it's fairly trivial, i've subscribed you
[13:27] <superm1> jist is when installing to a partition the portion that normally would call memcpy (boot_img + GRUB_BOOT_MACHINE_WINDOWS_NT_MAGIC no longer happens as of r2751 and causes certain machines to freeze in the BIOS while the disk is parsed
[13:27] <CIA-31> ubiquity: evand * r4603 trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Add an error message for apt-clone failing.
[13:33] <CIA-31> ubiquity: evand * r4604 trunk/scripts/plugininstall.py: slight fix for the previous commit.
[13:36] <cjwatson> superm1: thanks, I'll have to think about that a bit
[16:08] <seb128> hi
[16:08] <seb128> is the first installer screen supposed to be empty out of the language list on the left?
[16:09] <seb128> I think it used to have some text on the right, but it doesn't on today's iso there, I'm wondering if that's a bug or not
[16:13] <seb128> doh
[16:13] <seb128> that "Keep default keyboard layout" dialog is confusing
[16:17] <seb128> ev, is the "keep default keyboard layout" dialog going to change? i.e is it worth opening a bug about it today?
[16:17] <seb128> it tells me that XKBLAYOUTS="us" and XKBVARIANT="oss" and that value is based on xorg.conf
[16:18] <seb128> that's quite technical infos for normal users to do something about
[16:18] <seb128> the buttons label are also "yes" "no" where they should be "keep" and "choose another config" or something
[16:19] <ev> seb128: first installer screen> did you break into Try Ubuntu mode?  The screen looks as normal if you let the CD boot without first pressing a key
[16:20] <ev> seb128: where are you seeing this dialog?
[16:20] <seb128> ev, after selecting the timezone
[16:20] <ev> could you please screenshot it?
[16:20] <seb128> I think I did the "press a key, select "intall ubuntu" in the CD screen"
[16:21] <ev> install ubuntu> that will have a different language page
[16:23] <seb128> screenshot, ok
[16:23] <seb128> 2 minutes
[16:24] <seb128> ev, but you should get it in a french install
[16:24] <seb128> I was already getting it in a3
[16:34] <seb128> ev, http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/layout.png
[16:35] <seb128> ev, sorry it has been taking a bit, the 10v wifi doesn't work out of the box
[16:35] <seb128> ev, I get that dialog to show when I do "next" on the tz selection
[16:35] <seb128> like I selected France (Paris) and did "next"
[16:36] <ev> 10v wireless> does checking the install 3rd party extras box in the installer not take care of that for you?
[16:36] <ev> interesting
[16:36] <seb128> ev, oh, I didn't even think to check anything since I'm offline
[16:37] <seb128> I usually do the install offline and use jockey after the first login
[16:43] <seb128> ev, http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/ubi.png
[16:44] <seb128> ev, that's the screen I get when I run the installer from the desktop session
[16:44] <seb128> or when selecting "install ubuntu" on the CD menu
[16:44] <seb128> (ie not waiting to get the ubiquity screen with the 2 icons)
[16:48] <dlyneshome> Is there a way to force the ubuntu package manager to use --no-http-keep-alive as a wget parameter?
[16:51] <ev> dlyneshome: best to ask that sort of thing in #ubuntu-devel.  This is for development of the operating system installer.
[16:52] <ev> seb128: digging on your first issue
[16:53] <dlyneshome> ev, ah...thought that would be related to the installer...I was hoping i could specify that as part of the menu.cfg file
[16:53] <dlyneshome> ev, i.e. as a bootstrap option to the installer
[16:58] <cjwatson> apt doesn't use wget
[16:59] <cjwatson> you'd need to file a bug asking for whatever it is to be tunable in apt.conf; and then it would probably be possible to construct an installer preseed file that set the relevant option
[17:08] <dlyneshome> cjwatson, ah...thought apt-get used wget internally
[17:09] <cjwatson> no, it has its own HTTP code
[17:10] <dlyneshome> cjwatson, any idea offhand what the tasksel is for either the kde desktop or the gnome desktop, then?
[17:10] <cjwatson> kubuntu-desktop or ubuntu-desktop respectively
[17:10] <dlyneshome> cjwatson, thanks
[17:30] <CIA-31> ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu: evand * r339 ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/ (6 files in 2 dirs):
[17:30] <CIA-31> ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu: If we're going to use American-English strings, we might as well
[17:30] <CIA-31> ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu: also use serial commas. Thanks to Mark Pilgrim for the tip.
[17:39] <cjwatson> perfectly good British English too :-)
[17:39] <cjwatson> (it's also called the "Oxford comma")
[17:40] <cjwatson> incidentally: American English strings, but "Ubuntu Software Centre"? :-)
[17:40] <dlyneshome> cjwatson, that's correct
[17:40] <cjwatson> which is correct?
[17:40] <dlyneshome> Centre
[17:40] <cjwatson> apt-cache show software-center
[17:40] <dlyneshome> Unless you're talking about the center of a circle
[17:41] <dlyneshome> Community Centre vs center of a circle
[17:41] <cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter
[17:41] <dlyneshome> shrug
[17:41] <cjwatson> whether it's correct or not (and I guess it may well be dialectal, even in the US), the project itself calls itself Center in US English
[17:41] <dlyneshome> I use Canadian English :O
[17:42] <cjwatson> and I use British English myself, but nevertheless
[17:43] <dlyneshome> btw...why is it that Canadian keyboard equates to a French keyboard?  There should be a choice of Canadian (English) Keyboard and Canadian (French) Keyboard
[17:43] <dlyneshome> I always end up kicking myself 1/2 hour later after an install, when my keyboard doesn't work properly
[17:44] <dlyneshome> Just a thought...
[17:45] <cjwatson> the intent is that if you select English as your language and Canada as your location, you get a US keyboard; if you select French as your language and Canada as your location, you get a Canadian keyboard, which according to the xkeyboard-config project is French Canadian
[17:45] <cjwatson> xkeyboard-config defines "Canada - English" as identical to US
[17:45] <dlyneshome> Do Brits have all these keyboard problems, too?
[17:45] <cjwatson> there's only really one UK layout
[17:45] <dlyneshome> Or does a British keyboard have all these weird symbols on them?
[17:46] <cjwatson> well, aside from Macs which are a bit weird
[17:46] <dlyneshome> sorry..uk...I always seem to get the political incorrectness
[17:47] <dlyneshome> So uk keyboards have all the latin digraphs on them?
[17:47] <cjwatson> no
[17:48] <dlyneshome> It's almost the same as a US keyboard, then?
[17:48] <dlyneshome> Just curious...I've only ever seen US, French Canadian, and Chinese keyboards
[17:48] <cjwatson> the UK layout actually does include some AltGr-accessed keys, but they are not normally engraved on the keycaps, with the exception of the Euro sign
[17:49] <dlyneshome> Ah...yeah....those I guess would be pretty necessary on a uk keyboard....Euro, sterling pound symbol, and maybe the pence sign
[17:49] <cjwatson> the pence sign is simply 'p'
[17:49] <dlyneshome> ah
[17:50] <cjwatson> the main differences from US are that it has one extra key; £#\|~ all permute; @" swap; and a couple of others I've forgotten
[17:51] <dlyneshome> ah
[17:51] <cjwatson> as far as I can see, we do offer a choice between English and French Canadian layouts
[17:51] <cjwatson> it's just a question of defaults
[18:40] <dlyneshome> cjwatson, yeah...the only confusing part is when you're on the keyboard selection screen in console mode, most Canadians would likely by default pick 'Canadian', rather than scrolling down to the bottom of the list to pick USA
[18:41] <dlyneshome> cjwatson, I've never used the gui installer, so I have no idea what it looks like
[18:43] <dlyneshome> cjwatson, I would imagine if there was one called 'Australian', that chose an aborigine keyboard, you'd find Australians doing the same thing, instead of picking a US keyboard, too
[18:44] <cjwatson> well, except that the default should be selected for them
[18:45] <cjwatson> maybe not in d-i since keyboard selection comes first there
[18:45] <cjwatson> although if you select English and Canada, it should give you the USA layout by default
[18:46] <cjwatson> in the case of the graphical installer, it uses geolocation to pick where you live automatically, which should have the same effect with less interaction
[18:46] <cjwatson> the keyboard layout list is too long to really expect people to find what they want without good defaults
[19:06] <dlyneshome> cjwatson, so i'm guessing locale=en_CA console-setup/layoutcode=en_CA is not the correct way to do it, then?
[19:06] <cjwatson> en_CA isn't a keyboard layout code
[19:06] <cjwatson> =us
[19:06] <cjwatson> locale=en_CA console-setup/layoutcode=us (or keyboard-configuration/layoutcode=us in natty)
[19:07] <dlyneshome> ah....so that's where I was screwing up, then....thanks muchly
[19:08] <dlyneshome> It seemed to work on Jaunty, but then broke on lucid
[19:32] <dlyneshome> cjwatson, Is there something else required to get kubuntu-desktop to work?  My tasksel line is as follows:  d-i tasksel/first multiselect standard, base-server, kubuntu-desktop
[19:33] <dlyneshome> cjwatson, nothing X-related is getting installed
[19:40] <dlyneshome> cjwatson, nvm...found out I had to do kde-desktop, not kubuntu-desktop
[19:57] <dlyneshome> Hrm...I guess that still doesn't do it, even though that's a tasksel as per the tasksel-data package
[20:47] <cjwatson> base-server doesn't exist
[20:47] <cjwatson> and kde-desktop is a Debian task (I guess so is base-server), not an Ubuntu task
[20:47] <cjwatson> have you tried following the installation guide?
[20:47] <cjwatson> https://help.ubuntu.com/10.10/installation-guide/
[20:48] <cjwatson> that notes that it needs to be 'tasksel tasksel/first ...', not 'd-i tasksel/first ...'
[20:48] <cjwatson> but it's best to work from the preseeding appendix to the installation guide
[21:10] <dlyneshome> cjwatson, thanks for pointing out my oversight...don't know how that got in there
[21:12] <dlyneshome> cjwatson, I've read over the installation guide several times...i just haven't read it recently...when I initially started doing preseeding, it was for a fairly specialized install, and I was wanting to take three different install options and combine them...unfortunately, I had no idea what those tasksels were, and they didn't seem to be documented anywhere, so I was stuck grabbing information from numerous websites and mashing it all together
[21:13] <dlyneshome> cjwatson, today, however, I found out about tasksel-data package which nicely lists all the tasks, in a specific file in the tasks folder of that package
[21:22] <cjwatson> dlyneshome: it sounds like you're looking at the Debian version of that package
[21:22] <cjwatson> dlyneshome: the Ubuntu version should have /usr/share/tasksel/ubuntu-tasks.desc, and should not mention any of base-server, kde-desktop, etc.
[21:23] <dlyneshome> cjwatson, http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/t/tasksel/tasksel_2.73ubuntu26.tar.gz
[21:24] <cjwatson> use the .deb, not the source tarball (which also contains Debian tasks)
[21:25] <dlyneshome> cjwatson, ah....I had just found that by doing a search on google, and it pulled up the tasksel-data package page for lucid for me (http://packages.ubuntu.com/lucid/tasksel)
[21:27] <dlyneshome> cjwatson, the new method I tried was 'tasksel --list-tasks' from the command prompt of an installed ubuntu
[21:27] <cjwatson> that's sensible too
[21:28] <dlyneshome> cjwatson, I guess another method I could use is from boot-screens/text.cfg:      append ramdisk_size=14984 locale=en_CA console-setup/layoutcode=us netcfg/wireless_wep= netcfg/choose_interface=eth0 netcfg_gethostname= url=http://preseed.ubuntu.com/preseed-lucid-station-installer.cfg vga=normal initrd=lucid-station-installer/amd64/initrd.gz tasksel:tasksel/first="kubuntu-desktop" -- nomodeset
[21:28] <dlyneshome> ?
[21:28] <dlyneshome> preseed.ubuntu.com is just a virtual host on my apache install
[21:36] <dlyneshome> ah...putting it in my text.cfg works; putting it into the preseed doesn't work for some reason


[00:17] <wd4lko> how can i get kernel 2.6.24-18 in intrepid ?
[00:17] <bobbo> wd4lko: probably better to ask in #ubuntu-kernel
[00:18] <wd4lko> ok ill try thanks
[03:50] <abarbaccia> options usbhid quirks=0x046d:0xc71f:0x00080000
[03:50] <abarbaccia> I have a module (usbhid) and specified options for it in /etc/modprobe.d/options. When it loads at boot, the options aren't being used, but after reloading the module manually they are. Any comments or explanations? Thanks!!
[12:15] <nekostar> !ping
[14:30] <hyperair> hello. is boo in intrepid's repo?
[14:53]  * hyperair wails
[14:53] <hyperair> wtf is wrong with launchpad today?!
[14:57] <lamalex> launchpad is messed up pretty much every day recently..
[14:57] <hyperair> $%^&
[14:57] <hyperair> oh well
[14:57] <hyperair> it sent me a late build failure notification
[14:57] <hyperair> so i thought the new builds failed
[14:57] <hyperair> eventhough i fixed it
[15:47] <trontonic> Hi, I'm currently running Hardy. I switched long before it was released and now I'm thinking about doing the same thing: switching to Intrepid. Anybody here running it?
[17:13] <DanaG> YAY!    - Pass clicks to the media popup window through to the underlying window
[17:24] <DanaG> Gaack, gnome-settings-daemon just segfaulted.
[23:43] <fromport> will "dpkg --force-depends -P sysvutils" fix my  E: Internal Error, Could not early remove sysvutils  when doing an apt-get dist-upgrade ?


[00:03] <Statts> Hi, is this the proper channel to seek help on installing mythtv backend on a system running xbmc live?
[06:26] <sgunther> With the mythbuntu testing PPA why are the updates being limited by distribution?  I am runnung 10.04 (Lucid) with 0.24 and there is a change in the mysql MCC plugin codebase that is not coming to my machine?   My system has applied all updates via synaptics and my current mythbuntu common is 0.50-0ubuntu1.  In looking at the sources files on the server lucid is getting a different set of files than maverick, is this intenti
[07:52] <achew22> I just installed the 0.25 pre from the mythbuntu repos. When I start anything I get a segfault in "QMutex::lock() () from /usr/lib/libQtCore.so.4" according to gdb. Does anyone have any clue what's going on?
[09:56] <Shred00> achew22: i reported this a day or two ago.  there was no response.
[11:27] <rileyp> is anyone usimng irsend in natty I cant seem to get it to work
[15:59] <jason1969> Just installing 11.04,  during install asks to 'Test Connection'  trouble is it does not allow me to enter the backend server addres (or mysql server address) so always fails.  Is this intentional?
[16:17] <jason1969> This could be related, but at the end of installation I get "The installer crashed" and some instructions about submitting syslog and partman log to developers.  These files have no errors at the time of the crash.
[16:18] <jason1969> Message in installer is "Checking for packages to remove", towards the end of installation.
[16:23] <chrissbx> Is there a drawback in choosing 64bit mythbuntu over the 32bit version (on a Core 2 duo)?
[16:23] <chrissbx> Like, does it not offer flash?
[16:25] <jason1969> I would argue, rather where is the benefit.  Unless you have a specific 64bit app or one that needs a lot of memory there is little advantage, rather one could argue that 64bit is a disadvantage, progs are larger as are some data structures so could be slower.
[16:26] <chrissbx> Maybe more efficient codecs? Like enabling me to play HD video in flash? :)
[16:27] <chrissbx> I know about the size issue, but video usage might really just actually be a good case *for* 64 bit.
[16:29] <chrissbx> Also, this computer is using nvidia graphics, and I've been using the closed source binary driver w/ 64bit Debian; would have to check if the driver actually exists for 32bit.
[16:29] <jason1969> Perhaps, though I'd have to see some benchmarks to be convinced that the use of 64bit is worth the hastle of stuff not working.  I found that using a decent video card (VDPAU) made far better progress wtih HD playback than a stroger CPU.
[16:29] <chrissbx> (Or would the opensource driver work well now?)
[16:33] <chrissbx> Well, I'll just install 64bit then see whether flash works.
[16:34] <jason1969> Well, as I said, if you can put up with the hastle for a given app then it's worth it. (perhaps in your case a specific driver for your h/w) From experience with other machines (not for Myth) I find that 64bit is really not that useful (yet) and just makes life more complicated. In time I expect this will change.
[16:46] <jason1969> I use a cheap Nvidia card, a GeForce 8400GS on PCIe with HDMI and it works perfectly at 1080p using the NVIDIA GLX drivers for Xorg
[16:55] <tgm4883> jason1969, do you actually use 64-bit processing anywhere?
[16:55] <tgm4883> a 64-bit os that is
[16:56] <tgm4883> I mean, I only use a 32-bit OS on one of my PC's, and this is only because it doesn't have a 64-bit capable CPU
[16:56] <tgm4883> And I don't see any issues running any software
[16:57] <tgm4883> I mean, it's not 1969 anymore, 64-bit Ubuntu is actually quite good
[17:04] <jason1969> tgm4883:  Two of me three file servers use 64bit, less because I *need* it, rather as an experiment...  My Vista laptop is 64bit.
[17:06] <jason1969> My VMs (for network services) are all 32bit as is my backend file storage (NAS)
[17:07] <jason1969> did I say Vista, i mean W7 (used to be Vista a year ago.....)
[17:07] <jason1969> I've done lots of cross development and was fiorced to use 64bit (company policy) caused lots of grief - would have been much easier with 32bit.
[17:10] <jason1969> I don't think I've got any non-64 bit capable machines anymore, oh yes one of hack of an old laptop that runs w2k - I use it for jtag programming using old (LPT port) hardware.  It was the bee's knees back in 2000......
[17:24] <tgm4883> jason1969, so it sounds like, from a programming POV, that 64-bit computing is more difficult. But from a user standpoint I see no issues
[17:51] <jason1969> I think it is more generic: if you stray off the common software into stuff that's not frequenly updated then you get into issues with 64bit because the effort's not been done.  Same if you are a developer or a general user.  I can't really comment as a user under Linux as I don't really use it for those sorts of apps, but under Windows I find lots of older stuff is bin fodder once you move to 64.
[17:51] <jason1969> Saying that W7 does do a good job of running most 32bit apps......
[19:32] <achew22> Shred00: Last night you said that you'd seen the segfault in the mythbuntu binaries. Did you ever get that resolved?
[19:32] <Shred00> achew22: no.  it seems to be an artifact of the build.  somebody else echoed that finding this morning.
[19:32] <achew22> I wonder when the next build is scheduled
[21:19] <dekarl> fwiw 64bit in the pc world gets you twice the register count, an ABI that doens't use the stack so much for function calls, etc. ohh, and more than 2 gigs of flat memory per process, a bigger address space to map you pci memory into... like that 2 gig from your graphics card without going back to old school paging.. so I'd say it's easier for the programmers in the 64bit world :)
[21:22] <dekarl> and after 10 years of 64bit windows, if you still have old crap that's supposed to be used on current windows but doesn't work right, just slap whoever bought from that supplier until they throw them out and switch.
[22:35] <achew22> Is there a way to trigger the mythbuntu repos to rebuild from source? There is a commit on HEAD (that isn't in the current build) that I think stops a segfault I've been having. Any ideas?
[23:12] <tgm4883> achew22, wait about 2 hours? it's actually set to start at 11:00 PM GMT I think
[23:12] <achew22> why didn't it build last night then?


[07:44] <nebuchadnezzar> hello, I found a very strange issue: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debian-installer/+bug/1452577
[07:44] <nebuchadnezzar> Not sure debian-installer is a good place for this bug
[08:48] <xnox> bug 1066480
[08:48] <xnox> hm.
[08:48] <xnox> bdmurray: 1066480 is still valid, not fixed.
[08:49] <xnox> bdmurray: i hope to move to encrypted ext4 once that lands everywhere =)