[05:46] <LEI> Christel just posted this "denial" on the freenode blog https://freenode.net/news/spam-shake Why does this blog post mention "10.2 million" THREE times?
[05:46] <LEI> This blog is essentially an ad for the Handshake ICO scam with a one-line "denial" of involvement mixed in there. It's obviously very unethical of Christel to not mention her own involvement in the scam which the blog post promotes.
[05:46] <ubrl> LEI: ⇪ Continued and persistent spambot attack and clarification - freenode
[05:46] <LEI> Consider Andrew Lee's involvement, Andrew Lee is Christel's boss at London Trust Media and he also controls the majority of freenode voting rights. Andrew Lee also heads the handshake ICO scam. Coincidence?
[05:46] <LEI> Oh, and about those donations she speaks of: https://twitter.com/ISCdotORG/status/1025461692132519936
[05:46] <ubrl> LEI: ⇪ ISC on Twitter: "We have not received any money from @hns. We have asked them to take us off their web site, we didn't give them permission to list ISC on their web site and we do not endorse their initiative."
[05:46] <LEI> Don't support freenode and their ICO scam, switch to a network that hasn't been co-opted by corporate interests. OFTC or efnet might be a good choice. Perhaps even https://matrix.org/
[05:46] <ubrl> ⇪ f: Home | Matrix.org
[06:23] <meine> Christel just posted this "denial" on the freenode blog https://freenode.net/news/spam-shake Why does this blog post mention "10.2 million" THREE times?
[06:23] <ubrl> meine: ⇪ Continued and persistent spambot attack and clarification - freenode
[06:23] <meine> This blog is essentially an ad for the Handshake ICO scam with a one-line "denial" of involvement mixed in there. It's obviously very unethical of Christel to not mention her own involvement in the scam which the blog post promotes.
[06:23] <meine> Consider Andrew Lee's involvement, Andrew Lee is Christel's boss at London Trust Media and he also controls the majority of freenode voting rights. Andrew Lee also heads the handshake ICO scam. Coincidence?
[06:23] <meine> Oh, and about those donations she speaks of: https://twitter.com/ISCdotORG/status/1025461692132519936
[06:23] <ubrl> meine: ⇪ ISC on Twitter: "We have not received any money from @hns. We have asked them to take us off their web site, we didn't give them permission to list ISC on their web site and we do not endorse their initiative."
[06:24] <meine> Don't support freenode and their ICO scam, switch to a network that hasn't been co-opted by corporate interests. OFTC or efnet might be a good choice. Perhaps even https://matrix.org/
[06:24] <ubrl> ⇪ f: Home | Matrix.org
[07:27] <ubrl> |http:\/\/(127\.|localhoat|192\.|10\.|172\.[123]|gchat.qpic...|.*?get_group_pic\?pic=)|\/ph\.qq\.com\/\d|ISC/i `人机合一
[07:30] <Nevolution224> Christel just posted this "denial" on the freenode blog https://freenode.net/news/spam-shake Why does this blog post mention "10.2 million" THREE times?
[07:30] <ubrl> Nevolution224: ⇪ Continued and persistent spambot attack and clarification - freenode
[07:30] <Nevolution224> This blog is essentially an ad for the Handshake ICO scam with a one-line "denial" of involvement mixed in there. It's obviously very unethical of Christel to not mention her own involvement in the scam which the blog post promotes.
[07:31] <Nevolution224> Consider Andrew Lee's involvement, Andrew Lee is Christel's boss at London Trust Media and he also controls the majority of freenode voting rights. Andrew Lee also heads the handshake ICO scam. Coincidence?
[07:31] <Nevolution224> Oh, and about those donations she speaks of: https://twitter.com/ISCdotORG/status/1025461692132519936
[07:31] <Nevolution224> Don't support freenode and their ICO scam, switch to a network that hasn't been co-opted by corporate interests. OFTC or efnet might be a good choice. Perhaps even https://matrix.org/
[07:31] <ubrl> ⇪ f: Home | Matrix.org
[07:56] <simon_-_7> Christel just posted this "denial" on the freenode blog https://freenode.net/news/spam-shake Why does this blog post mention "10.2 million" THREE times?
[07:56] <ubrl> simon_-_7: ⇪ Continued and persistent spambot attack and clarification - freenode
[07:56] <simon_-_7> This blog is essentially an ad for the Handshake ICO scam with a one-line "denial" of involvement mixed in there. It's obviously very unethical of Christel to not mention her own involvement in the scam which the blog post promotes.
[07:56] <simon_-_7> Consider Andrew Lee's involvement, Andrew Lee is Christel's boss at London Trust Media and he also controls the majority of freenode voting rights. Andrew Lee also heads the handshake ICO scam. Coincidence?
[07:56] <simon_-_7> Oh, and about those donations she speaks of: https://twitter.com/ISCdotORG/status/1025461692132519936
[07:56] <simon_-_7> Don't support freenode and their ICO scam, switch to a network that hasn't been co-opted by corporate interests. OFTC or efnet might be a good choice. Perhaps even https://matrix.org/
[07:56] <ubrl> simon_-_7:. .., 别刷屏，超过6行 大段文字 请贴至paste.ubuntu.com +q 23s
[08:29] <d1b25> Christel just posted this "denial" on the freenode blog https://freenode.net/news/spam-shake Why does this blog post mention "10.2 million" THREE times?
[08:29] <d1b25> This blog is essentially an ad for the Handshake ICO scam with a one-line "denial" of involvement mixed in there. It's obviously very unethical of Christel to not mention her own involvement in the scam which the blog post promotes.
[08:29] <d1b25> Consider Andrew Lee's involvement, Andrew Lee is Christel's boss at London Trust Media and he also controls the majority of freenode voting rights. Andrew Lee also heads the handshake ICO scam. Coincidence?
[08:29] <d1b25> Oh, and about those donations she speaks of: https://twitter.com/ISCdotORG/status/1025461692132519936
[08:29] <d1b25> Don't support freenode and their ICO scam, switch to a network that hasn't been co-opted by corporate interests. OFTC or efnet might be a good choice. Perhaps even https://matrix.org/
[08:29] <ubrl> ⇪ f: Home | Matrix.org
[13:03] <elkalamar> Christel just posted this "denial" on the freenode blog https://freenode.net/news/spam-shake Why does this blog post mention "10.2 million" THREE times?
[13:03] <elkalamar> This blog is essentially an ad for the Handshake ICO scam with a one-line "denial" of involvement mixed in there. It's obviously very unethical of Christel to not mention her own involvement in the scam which the blog post promotes.
[13:03] <elkalamar> Consider Andrew Lee's involvement, Andrew Lee is Christel's boss at London Trust Media and he also controls the majority of freenode voting rights. Andrew Lee also heads the handshake ICO scam. Coincidence?
[13:03] <ubrl> elkalamar: ⇪ Continued and persistent spambot attack and clarification - freenode
[13:03] <elkalamar> Oh, and about those donations she speaks of: https://twitter.com/ISCdotORG/status/1025461692132519936
[13:03] <ubrl> elkalamar:. .., 别刷屏，超过6行 大段文字 请贴至paste.ubuntu.com +q 23s
[13:03] <elkalamar> Don't support freenode and their ICO scam, switch to a network that hasn't been co-opted by corporate interests. OFTC or efnet might be a good choice. Perhaps even https://matrix.org/
[13:03] <ubrl> ⇪ t: Home | Matrix.org
[13:03] <ubrl> You're not a channel operator * need Op.
[14:35] <johnan_18> topic
[17:14] <qassim0> Christel just posted this "denial" on the freenode blog https://freenode.net/news/spam-shake Why does this blog post mention "10.2 million" THREE times?
[17:14] <ubrl> qassim0: ⇪ Continued and persistent spambot attack and clarification - freenode
[17:14] <qassim0> This blog is essentially an ad for the Handshake ICO scam with a one-line "denial" of involvement mixed in there. It's obviously very unethical of Christel to not mention her own involvement in the scam which the blog post promotes.
[17:14] <qassim0> Consider Andrew Lee's involvement, Andrew Lee is Christel's boss at London Trust Media and he also controls the majority of freenode voting rights. Andrew Lee also heads the handshake ICO scam. Coincidence?
[17:14] <qassim0> Oh, and about those donations she speaks of: https://twitter.com/ISCdotORG/status/1025461692132519936
[17:14] <qassim0> Don't support freenode and their ICO scam, switch to a network that hasn't been co-opted by corporate interests. OFTC or efnet might be a good choice. Perhaps even https://matrix.org/
[17:14] <ubrl> ⇪ f: Home | Matrix.org
[19:32] <aOssed-> Christel just posted this "denial" on the freenode blog https://freenode.net/news/spam-shake Why does this blog post mention "10.2 million" THREE times?
[19:32] <ubrl> aOssed-: ⇪ Continued and persistent spambot attack and clarification - freenode
[19:32] <aOssed-> This blog is essentially an ad for the Handshake ICO scam with a one-line "denial" of involvement mixed in there. It's obviously very unethical of Christel to not mention her own involvement in the scam which the blog post promotes.
[19:32] <aOssed-> Consider Andrew Lee's involvement, Andrew Lee is Christel's boss at London Trust Media and he also controls the majority of freenode voting rights. Andrew Lee also heads the handshake ICO scam. Coincidence?
[19:32] <aOssed-> Oh, and about those donations she speaks of: https://twitter.com/ISCdotORG/status/1025461692132519936
[19:32] <aOssed-> Don't support freenode and their ICO scam, switch to a network that hasn't been co-opted by corporate interests. OFTC or efnet might be a good choice. Perhaps even https://matrix.org/
[19:32] <ubrl> aOssed-:. .., 别刷屏，超过6行 大段文字 请贴至paste.ubuntu.com +q 23s
[20:21] <bsanford> Christel just posted this "denial" on the freenode blog https://freenode.net/news/spam-shake Why does this blog post mention "10.2 million" THREE times?
[20:21] <bsanford> This blog is essentially an ad for the Handshake ICO scam with a one-line "denial" of involvement mixed in there. It's obviously very unethical of Christel to not mention her own involvement in the scam which the blog post promotes.
[20:21] <bsanford> Consider Andrew Lee's involvement, Andrew Lee is Christel's boss at London Trust Media and he also controls the majority of freenode voting rights. Andrew Lee also heads the handshake ICO scam. Coincidence?
[20:21] <bsanford> Oh, and about those donations she speaks of: https://twitter.com/ISCdotORG/status/1025461692132519936
[20:21] <ubrl> bsanford:. .., 别刷屏，超过6行 大段文字 请贴至paste.ubuntu.com +q 23s
[20:22] <bsanford> Don't support freenode and their ICO scam, switch to a network that hasn't been co-opted by corporate interests. OFTC or efnet might be a good choice. Perhaps even https://matrix.org/
[20:22] <ubrl> ⇪ f: Home | Matrix.org
[21:15] <zgrepc3> Christel just posted this "denial" on the freenode blog https://freenode.net/news/spam-shake Why does this blog post mention "10.2 million" THREE times?
[21:15] <ubrl> zgrepc3: ⇪ Continued and persistent spambot attack and clarification - freenode
[21:15] <zgrepc3> This blog is essentially an ad for the Handshake ICO scam with a one-line "denial" of involvement mixed in there. It's obviously very unethical of Christel to not mention her own involvement in the scam which the blog post promotes.
[21:15] <zgrepc3> Consider Andrew Lee's involvement, Andrew Lee is Christel's boss at London Trust Media and he also controls the majority of freenode voting rights. Andrew Lee also heads the handshake ICO scam. Coincidence?
[21:15] <zgrepc3> Oh, and about those donations she speaks of: https://twitter.com/ISCdotORG/status/1025461692132519936
[21:15] <zgrepc3> Don't support freenode and their ICO scam, switch to a network that hasn't been co-opted by corporate interests. OFTC or efnet might be a good choice. Perhaps even https://matrix.org/
[21:15] <ubrl> ⇪ f: Home | Matrix.org
[22:38] <ghoti14> Christel just posted this "denial" on the freenode blog https://freenode.net/news/spam-shake Why does this blog post mention "10.2 million" THREE times?
[22:38] <ubrl> ghoti14: ⇪ Continued and persistent spambot attack and clarification - freenode
[22:38] <ghoti14> This blog is essentially an ad for the Handshake ICO scam with a one-line "denial" of involvement mixed in there. It's obviously very unethical of Christel to not mention her own involvement in the scam which the blog post promotes.
[22:38] <ghoti14> Consider Andrew Lee's involvement, Andrew Lee is Christel's boss at London Trust Media and he also controls the majority of freenode voting rights. Andrew Lee also heads the handshake ICO scam. Coincidence?
[22:38] <ghoti14> Oh, and about those donations she speaks of: https://twitter.com/ISCdotORG/status/1025461692132519936
[22:38] <ghoti14> Don't support freenode and their ICO scam, switch to a network that hasn't been co-opted by corporate interests. OFTC or efnet might be a good choice. Perhaps even https://matrix.org/
[22:38] <ubrl> ⇪ f: Home | Matrix.org


[00:03] <Eickmeyer> bdmurray: Personally, on my laptop, I like to have the lowlatency kernel when I'm doing hardware-intensive work (e.g. audio) and the generic for general purpose/power saving. Add that to the oem kernel, and things get funny. Additionally, a bug in packagekit is marking auto-installed as manual.
[00:03] <Eickmeyer> Therefore, we end up with overflows of /boot very easily.
[00:05] <Eickmeyer> bdmurray: Check the details provided by Mike Mikowski in the bug report I linked above.
[00:05] <Eickmeyer> It explains everything.
[00:14] <bdmurray> Eickmeyer: neither you nor Mike explained how you installed or what flavor of Ubuntu you installed.
[00:15] <Eickmeyer> bdmurray: It's Kubuntu.
[00:15] <Eickmeyer> The issue is usually a bug in packagekit which Discover uses as a backend when upgrading packages.
[00:16] <Eickmeyer> Hopefully that's been rectified in a recent commit to Packagekit, but it doesn't completely mitigate the problem. Scientists that use our laptops tend to install more than one kernel flavor.
[00:17] <Eickmeyer> And Mike doesn't use IRC, so I recommend asking him questions via the bug report.
[00:17] <Eickmeyer> And installed via oem installer.
[00:44] <rbasak> bdmurray: I just happened to glance at the SRU queues, and python-apt is flagged as missing bug references. Did you miss that? I don't see a relevant bug though.
[00:45] <rbasak> Oh, sorry.
[00:45] <rbasak> It is an exception.
[00:45] <rbasak> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#ubuntu-release-upgrader_and_python-apt
[15:33] <ahasenack> indeed
[16:26] <vorlon> ahasenack: thanks for your posts pointing out classes of python3 transition failures, I think that's very useful
[16:26] <ahasenack> thanks!
[18:38] <enr0n> vorlon: I have been looking at an ubuntu-release-upgrader lock screen issue (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-release-upgrader/+bug/1959458) and have tried using the org.freedesktop.ScreenSaver DBus interface to solve it. Since the upgrade script rus as root, and the DBus interface is on the session bus, there have been several hiccups in this approach.
[18:39] <enr0n> bdmurray said the two of you have discussed whether screen locking is still a concern during upgrade. We are wondering if you think this issue is still worth pursuing given the DBus troubles.
[19:30] <jbicha> enr0n: hi! I think screen locking can be a major issue during upgrade. I believe there had been problems with people being unable to unlock their screen when parts of the login system are updated
[19:30] <sarnold> hah yeah, that can happen..
[19:32] <jbicha> I presume that's only with major upgrades. I don't think that it's been a concern for Stable Release Updates
[19:34] <jbicha> I don't even remember seeing bugs recently for people who run the development release so maybe things do work better now. But it feels risky updating 2 years at one time from one LTS to the next
[19:36] <sarnold> yeah, I think I've only seen that bug filed during release upgrades, but I can't recall if it was lts -> lts or interim -> interim etc
[19:37] <bdmurray> Let's take a step back and look at how long inhibiting the screen lock has been broken. Then check to see if there have been complaints during that time frame.
[19:37] <sarnold> of course, bug reports is only going to represent a portion of peoplke who have the problem
[19:37] <sarnold> certainly *something* around screen locking breaks every release, in at least one of the flavours
[19:43] <vorlon> jbicha, sarnold, enr0n: however I don't think this has been an issue with *GNOME* in particular any time in the past decade, because authentication happens in a subprocess, precisely because they saw and solved this issue
[19:44] <vorlon> this is why I have my doubts that it's worth extraordinary efforts to inhibit the GNOME screensaver
[19:45] <bdmurray> IIRC enr0n thinks the Kubuntu screensaver quirk is broken too
[19:47] <vorlon> I can't speak to the importance of fixing that one, not having used KDE in quite a while
[19:48] <vorlon> though in any event I will say that bug reports for either of these environments against the Debian PAM package have basically been nonexistent, and Debian doesn't use u-r-u
[19:48] <enr0n> Yeah, it tries to use org.kde.ScreenSaver (probably wants to be org.freedesktop.ScreenSaver), and can't connect to the session bus because $UID == 0 etc.
[19:49] <vorlon> well $UID==0 means you also have the privileges to change UID... it probably makes most sense to do this in a subprocess
[20:01] <bdmurray> vorlon: but I gather your first inclination is not to do continue inhibiting it at all.
[20:02] <vorlon> bdmurray: I think it is acceptable to not do so; but this should be cross-checked with the Desktop Team (and, it seems, the Kubuntu devs) to be sure
[20:03] <vorlon> personally, given how long an upgrade may take, I would prefer if my desktop could be locked for the duration
[21:40] <Eickmeyer> bdmurray: Hi! ^ mmikowski just joined and wants to chat with you about the /boot partition size issue as reported in bug 1959971
[21:42] <mmikowski> bdmurray: Hi Brian. Thanks for the intro Erich.
[21:49] <bdmurray> mmikowski: Hi there, so you are suggesting that we adjust the size of /boot so that it can accomodate 3 kernel flavors w/ two kernels per flavor is that correct?
[21:50] <mmikowski> Yes, the latest and penultimate version of each kernel.
[21:51] <mmikowski> Many people maintain at least two kernel flavors - lowlatency and hwe. If they are testing or have oem, then the have 3.
[21:52] <bdmurray> Your bug report mention advanced users, it would seem to me that advanced users can increase their /boot partition size to accomodate 3 kernels.
[21:52] <mmikowski> Of course advanced users can do this, but it is very time consuming.
[21:53] <Eickmeyer> These aren't end users doing the installation though, these are end users of an OEM machine.
[21:54] <mmikowski> Also, even with the default size with a single kernel flavor we are seeing many people overfill their disks.
[21:54] <bdmurray> Sure I think we should adjust the sizing for OEM installs which sounds like two kernels.
[21:55] <mmikowski> We frequently see generic-hwe and oem. Then a testing kernel or lowlatency-hwe.
[21:55] <mmikowski> These file sets take 180MB each. So the default size of 705M only allows one copy each before the disk is over-full.
[21:56] <mmikowski> And recovering from that situation is very difficult for all but the most advanced users.
[21:56] <bdmurray> Can you show me an install method that puts all those kernels on disk?
[21:57] <bdmurray> Yeah, it was my seeing bug reports that lead me to start looking at the /boot partition sizing.
[21:57] <mmikowski> Certainly the installer only provides a single kernel. It's when customers add a kernel later.
[21:58] <mmikowski> The reason we advocate a larger size is two fold: first, we have spent perhaps 100 hours supporting people who overfill their disks.
[21:58] <mmikowski> This is because when it happens, it is catestrophic.
[21:58] <mmikowski> And require enormous effort and time.
[21:59] <mmikowski> Many, many users do not know how to recover and lack the skills to do so.
[21:59] <mmikowski> The second reason is even with just one kernel, this situation can arrise.
[21:59] <bdmurray> I understand the consequences of when things go wrong
[22:00] <mmikowski> And we are seeing things go wrong far more frequently than is good for anyone.
[22:01] <mmikowski> So when one considers the expense when things go wrong, the likelyhood of things going wrongt, and how inexpensive 2G is for most users these days...
[22:02] <mmikowski> It seems that playing it safe is better.
[22:03] <bdmurray> I agree that playing it safe is better but your premise is based on a "best practice to manage 3 kernel packages" which I don't understand.
[22:03] <bdmurray> When I say premise I mean size estimate.
[22:04] <mmikowski> By best practice, I'm referring to the practice of always retaining the latest and penultimate version of each kernel flavor.
[22:04] <mmikowski> So that gets us 2 x 3 = 6 file sets.
[22:04] <bdmurray> Right why 3?
[22:05] <mmikowski> Three flavors concurrently installed.
[22:05] <mmikowski> oem, generic-hwe, lowlatency-hwe
[22:05] <mmikowski> or similar
[22:05] <bdmurray> Yes, but why would you have 3 kernel flavors installed? I don't understand that as a best practice.
[22:05] <mmikowski> customers can and do install other kernels why installing.
[22:06] <mmikowski> Oh, *that's* not a best practice. It's just what people do for any number of reasons.
[22:06] <bdmurray> We can't support everything people decide to do. Having 2 kernel flavors seems reasonable to me and we need to draw the line somewhere.
[22:06] <mmikowski> I do that for development purposes.
[22:07] <mmikowski> ok, two flavors, but then if they are considering or testing a third, we are back to 3.
[22:08] <mmikowski> Of course we can't support everything. I'm reporting what we are seeing in the field and causing users lots of pain and discouragement.
[22:08] <bdmurray> Could you tell me a bit more about who "we" is in this case?
[22:09] <mmikowski> Again, I wouldn't be such a strong advocate for caution if the results of overfilling weren't so severe.
[22:09] <mmikowski> I lead the Kubuntu Focus project. We ship Kubuntu preinstalled world-wide.
[22:11] <mmikowski> The referenced bug 1960089 lists all the calcs and reasons.
[22:11] <blahdeblah> Good old /boot sizing.  The gift that keeps on giving.  I've been using 2 GB as standard ever since 250 GB drives became common.  I'll probably up it to 4 GB one of these years.
[22:13] <mmikowski> bdmurray: I certainly understand the confusion over "best practice". Hopefully what I meant is now clear.
[22:14] <bdmurray> mmikowski: It might help if you redid your math according to the calculations in bug 1716999 instead of just 10 * 200
[22:16] <mmikowski> bdmurray: The math is based on the estimate that kernel file sets will be around 200 soon (they are 180M now).
[22:17] <mmikowski> I also explain the number 10 as well. Unattended upgrades (when it works) can leave extra versions around during upgrades.
[22:17] <mmikowski> If one has generic-hwe and lowlatency-hwe, that's two additional file sets.
[22:18] <mmikowski> As those are usually released together.
[22:18] <mmikowski> So 8. Add 2 for safety, and we are at 10.
[22:20] <sarnold> blahdeblah: yeah, I'm a big fan of overshooting /boot sizes, too. burning another gig on never needing to truncate files by hand again...
[22:21] <mmikowski> bdmurray: Also, consider that we have recently seen spates where multiple kernel versions are released within a day or so of one another. Thus the safety factor.
[22:22] <bdmurray> I understand what you are saying.
[22:24] <mmikowski> bdmurray: We had to write a kernel cleaner tool to prevent over-filling, which works quite well and we are looking to upstream.
[22:25] <mmikowski> The fact we had to create to ensure customer (and slash support cost) I think is indicative of the magnitude of this problem.
[22:25] <bdmurray> Where is this unattended-upgrades work you allude to taking place?
[22:27] <mmikowski> bdmurray: The unattended-upgrades is supposed to clean up unused kernels. However, it doesn't always work for a few reasons. Those are enumerated in bug 1960089.
[22:27] <mmikowski> Even when it *does* work,  the algo for unattended upgrades can result in overfull /boot partitions.
[22:30] <mmikowski> The current /boot partition only supports 3 kernels. Thus when a new kernel comes out, there are 3 kernels installed until the next clean.
[22:31] <mmikowski> If another kernel comes out before reboot, that overfills the disk. Again, that's just one kernel flavor.
[22:32] <bdmurray> I read the bug report I'm asking were are you "currently working with others to improve the unattended-upgrades algorithm"?
[22:32] <mmikowski> bdmurray: https://github.com/Bleuzen/ubuntu-kernel-autoremove
[22:33] <mmikowski> That's a start.
[22:33] <mmikowski> bdmurray: See https://github.com/Bleuzen/ubuntu-kernel-autoremove/issues/1
[22:35] <mmikowski> See the analysis. I don't want to go too far down the rabbit hole, but in summary, even when unattended-upgrades works as designed, a 2GB partition is recommended based on the analysis.
[22:36] <bdmurray> Okay, I thought you were actually working on fixing an issue with unattended-upgrades.
[22:36] <mmikowski> Package kit could allow for up to 8 concurrent kernels.
[22:36] <mmikowski> Oh, yes!
[22:36] <mmikowski> unattended-upgrades has big issues :)
[22:37] <mmikowski> Actually, just for kernel cleaning. The first isn't unattended-upgrades fault, but it gets broken because packagekit marks auto-installed packages as manual.
[22:39] <Eickmeyer> ^ That's a bugfix that has been committed upstream in Packagekit that we're testing and I'll report to juliank about. Hopefully packagekit can do a release before FF.
[22:39] <mmikowski> The second issue is it uses a heuristic that doesn't consider the system intent but instead purges mostly everything but the last 3-4 kernels.
[22:40] <mmikowski> What we envision is specifying the kernels to keep, and then the system applying the algo where last and penultimate versions are retained.
[22:41] <mmikowski> The third issue is that unattended-upgrades doesn't consider disk space. So it never gets triggered if /boot is too full.
[22:41] <mmikowski> All of those we want to address.
[22:46] <mmikowski> bdmurray: most of those issues are already addressed in our kernel clean tool, so this is just an issue of upsteaming and integrating the algo.
[22:46] <mmikowski> @Eickmeyer does this work?
[22:47] <Eickmeyer> mmikowski: I read you loud and clear.
[22:48] <mmikowski> bdmurray: I'll be around tooling with the Jammy code. If you need anything else from me, just give me a bump. Thanks for your interest and questions.
[23:31] <mmikowski> bdmurray: Just reviewing our conversation, I want to clarify that a 2GB disk is needed for any improved unattended upgrades. I can see how one might misconstrue that the improvements would reduce the need for /boot size.
[23:32] <mmikowski> However, that is not the case. Any improvements would work in conjunction with a larger /boot partition.
[23:34] <mmikowski> In particular, it would 1) Consider available space, 2) Honor user intend by keeping the kernel flavors they specify; and 3) Keep the latest and penultimate version of each flavor if space allows.


[11:29] <Alex_C> meta-ridley, I see ... but which do I select because I've got a 64bit CPU
[11:29] <Goldfisch> gopi: bttv and bt878 are all about Brooktree Corporation-based chipsets. You have the right driver, you just need to feed it a couple arguments to key on your distinct card model.
[11:29] <Alex_C> melchus, is there one for 64bit?
[11:29] <linuxboyfriend> can anyone tell me that from where I can get the driver of modem "Lucent V.90 Wildwire Modem"?
[11:30] <rukuartic> nickrud, XD...
[11:30] <spiritz> zaxxon: I think kde stands for customisation, features etc while gnome stands for simplicity and effectivness (I am a kde user)
[11:30] <tritium> please discuss kde vs. gnome in #ubuntu-offtopic
[11:30] <Alex_C> woops, meta-ridley is there one for 64bit
[11:30] <neiras> I guess the Mustard Hunters keep busy... cutting the mustard.
[11:30] <rukuartic> nickrud, By the way... * and / are very close together on the numpad...
[11:30] <Jonnings> Does anybody know why i get "you must run this program as root user" while trying to launch the kynaptic app in ubuntu?
[11:30] <rukuartic> nickrud, And there's a big difference between rm -rf * and rm -rf /
[11:30] <erUSUL> linuxboyfriend, linmodems.org?
[11:30] <zaxxon> ok, thanks for the help
[11:30] <nickrud> rukuartic, getting the next char; try system-pref-assistive tech; maybe you can use that
[11:30] <Lushin> can someone help me with q3?
[11:30] <gopi> Goldfisch: Ok ! But I am getting video fine but no audio !
[11:30] <Unity> Jonnings: `kdesu kynaptic`
[11:30] <linuxboyfriend> erUSUL: site is down and is not working, I am also trying to find there!
[11:30] <Unity> Jonnings: you cannot install stuff unless you are root
[11:31] <rukuartic> nickrud, Whats that do?
[11:31] <nickrud> rukuartic, never -rf , just -r
[11:31] <erUSUL> linuxboyfriend, :(
[11:31] <Goldfisch> gopi: Is that an update, or something that has been happening all this time?
[11:31] <rukuartic> nickrud, Good point.
[11:31] <nickrud> rukuartic, and maybe alias rm as rm -i, if you're worried
[11:31] <linuxboyfriend> erUSUL: yes, thats also I wanna say :(
[11:31] <linuxboyfriend> erUSUL: :)
[11:32] <deuce> The hard drive light on the front of my computer case is constantly on.  Any ideas why?
[11:32] <Jonnings> Unity: unless im root? Ive installed the app. but it wont run..
[11:32] <nickrud> rukuartic, assitive tech is for people who have special needs for using a computer
[11:32] <gopi> Goldfisch: Its not an update, its happening all time !
[11:32] <rukuartic> nickrud, Nice. :P
[11:32] <Unity> deuce: check if updatedb is running
[11:32] <gopi> Goldfisch: I just installed it 30 mins back and from the beginning the same problem....
[11:32] <Alex_C> can someone help me install TLS for 64 bit?
[11:32] <Goldfisch> rukuartic: If you are in /this/really/deep/directory/at/the/bottom/of/the/ocean and type rm -rf *, you won't delete anything above you. However rm -rf /, well, that will hit everything (at least until you have deleted the devices files and neutered your installation).
[11:33] <Unity> Jonnings: i meant kynaptic installs stuff, so you need to run it as root
[11:33] <rukuartic> nickrud, If I wanted to alias a command to move stuff to .trash or whatever... eg, rm is aliased to mv?
[11:33] <deuce> Unity, how?
[11:33] <Unity> Jonnings: put `kdesu kynaptic` in a terminal
[11:33] <Goldfisch> gopi: Okay, so xawtv is playing video fine? I thought you were getting nothing.
[11:33] <erUSUL> Goldfisch, only if you are root (or run the comand with sudo)
[11:33] <Unity> deuce: `ps -A | grep updatedb`
[11:33] <speyer> horde will be installed in /usr/share/horde3/ how will i browser horde now ? www.localhost/horde3 ? or how
[11:34] <maria> maria@ubuntu:~$ sudo apt-get install nvidia-settings Reading package lists... Done
[11:34] <maria> Building dependency tree... Done
[11:34] <maria> The following packages will be REMOVED:
[11:34] <maria>   nvidia-glx
[11:34] <maria> The following NEW packages will be installed:
[11:34] <gopi> Goldfisch: ya video is fine! Just no audio !
[11:34] <maria>   nvidia-settings
[11:34] <Goldfisch> erUSUL: Of course.
[11:34] <Unity> ubotu tell maria about pastebin
[11:34] <Jonnings> Unity: aahk, i just discover the "run as different user" thingy. The kdesu didnt work..
[11:34] <rukuartic> speyer, Depends... are you using apache? Did you set up an alias?
[11:34] <maria> spiritz: its removing my nvidia-glx when i install settings ?
[11:34] <Alex_C> Anyone know how to install TLS for 64bit?
[11:34] <deuce> Unity, nope, updatedb doesn't appear to be running
[11:34] <Seveas> maria, please don't paste in here
[11:34] <Unity> deuce: ok then i dunno.
[11:35] <spiritz> maria : maybe version don't match
[11:35] <maria> Seveas : sorry
[11:35] <HammerBlade2020> how big should a swap partition be with 1gig of ram?
[11:35] <nickrud> rukuartic, a popular move
[11:35] <rukuartic> maria, You know about http://www.pastebin.com? Neat site :D
[11:35] <speyer> rukuartic yes , using apache2 , no i didnt i installed phpmyadmin too and i didnt do anything ...
[11:35] <Seveas> HammerBlade2020, 512-1024 mb depending on your plans
[11:35] <ROFLCOPTER|`evoL> hey, what do i do if when typing ./configure for an application it says "C compiler cannot create executables" ?
[11:35] <rukuartic> nickrud, I guess thats around?
[11:35] <HammerBlade2020> Seveas, so the fact that it's almost 3gigs now is not right
[11:35] <Seveas> !tell ROFLCOPTER|`evoL about compiling
[11:35] <rukuartic> nickrud, That is, I can search for it?
[11:35] <Unity> HammerBlade2020: 507 megs i believe
[11:36] <Seveas> HammerBlade2020, more won't hurt
[11:36] <Goldfisch> gopi: Okay, then your next beast to tackle is sound. Are you using alsa? I usually keep a few sounds on my system so I can type "aplay *.wav" and verify sound is working hunk dory.
[11:36] <rukuartic> nickrud, <searches and doesn't ask dumb questions>
[11:36] <HammerBlade2020> Seveas, eh..... i guess not but i might need that space eventually
[11:36] <FunnyLookinHat> whoah, how do you make this character
[11:36] <speyer> FunnyLookinHat never seen that
[11:36] <Seveas> HammerBlade2020, in that case you should shrink the swap a bit
[11:36] <FunnyLookinHat> Seveas, just typed it!!
[11:36] <nickrud> rukuartic, :)
[11:36] <ROFLCOPTER|`evoL> thanks Seveas !
[11:37] <FunnyLookinHat> he did it again!!
[11:37] <HammerBlade2020> Seveas, how do i do that?
[11:37] <Seveas> HammerBlade2020, repartition, you can use gparted
[11:37] <Unity> Seveas: i have 1 gig of ram, i use comp for web browsing, irc, programming, etc, the swap usage never went over 12 megs
[11:37] <erUSUL> HammerBlade2020, 1Gb just in case you want/can suspend to disk (afaik ram contents are written to swap and in resume readed back)
[11:37] <gopi> Goldfisch: I am able to play sounds fine.... only with xawtv theres no sound !
[11:37] <Seveas> Unity, then 507 is enough
[11:38] <aaa> I again :P
[11:38] <Alex_C> Does anyone know if TLS works on 64BIT CPUS?
[11:38] <dejx> re
[11:38] <HammerBlade2020> Seveas, i have a /dev/sda2 and /dev/sda5, both almost 3 gigs.
[11:38] <erUSUL> Alex_C, i do not even know what TLS is...
[11:39] <ROFLCOPTER|`evoL> ok, now it says i need "Tcl" to compile.
[11:39] <HammerBlade2020> Seveas, and neither will let me resize.
[11:39] <Alex_C> erUSUL, nor me - but it AMSN says it needs it to login
[11:39] <Goldfisch> gopi: xawtv has a "-C" option for specifying the sound device you are using. Something like "xawtv -c /dev/video -C /dev/dsp". I don't what your actual video and sound device filenames are.
[11:39] <rukuartic> nickrud, is the variable for all the commands *$?
[11:39] <erUSUL> Alex_C, apt-cache search gnutls
[11:40] <nickrud> rukuartic, yes, but only in a shell, not an alias (I think)
[11:40] <Alex_C> now what do I do, erUSUL
[11:40] <rukuartic> nickrud, so alias rm="mv ~/.Trash *$" or something?
[11:40] <Goldfisch> ruluartic: Flip that -> $*
[11:40] <gopi> Goldfisch: ok so how to find out my sound device filename ?
[11:40] <ROFLCOPTER|`evoL> hey Seveas, it says i need "TCL" to compile now
[11:40] <Seveas> ROFLCOPTER|`evoL, what are you compiling?
[11:41] <ROFLCOPTER|`evoL> a program
[11:41] <dejx> I found this channel very helpful
[11:41] <Seveas> your own or something you downloaded?
[11:41] <HammerBlade2020> Seveas, how do i format a Swap and then re-add the space to my main partition
[11:41] <ROFLCOPTER|`evoL> Seveas, i downloaded it
[11:41] <Seveas> ROFLCOPTER|`evoL, ok, what's the name of it?
[11:41] <ROFLCOPTER|`evoL> eggdrop1.6.17
[11:41] <Seveas> !info eggdrop
[11:41] <ubotu> eggdrop: (Advanced IRC Robot), section universe/net, is extra. Version: 1.6.17-3 (breezy), Packaged size: 459 kB, Installed size: 1144 kB
[11:41] <HammerBlade2020> Seveas, can i unmount it?
[11:41] <erUSUL> Alex_C, install the apropiate packages (libgnutlsxx-dev i guess)
[11:41] <nickrud> rukartic, #! /bin/bash <newline> mv $@ ~/.Trash  in a bash script
[11:41] <Seveas> ROFLCOPTER|`evoL, don't compile it, install it via the package manager
[11:42] <ROFLCOPTER|`evoL> Seveas i didn't see it in package manager
[11:42] <Seveas> HammerBlade2020, is it your root partition
[11:42] <Seveas> ROFLCOPTER|`evoL, enable universe
[11:42] <Seveas> !tell ROFLCOPTER|`evoL about universe
[11:42] <HammerBlade2020> Seveas, it's /dev/sda5 and it's under an extended
[11:42] <ROFLCOPTER|`evoL> alright, thanks Seveas
[11:42] <nickrud> rukuartic, I script & program almost nothing these days, there are better sources for info here on this stuff
[11:42] <Seveas> HammerBlade2020, is it mounted as /
[11:42] <TomaszD> ROFLCOPTER|`evoL, what are you trying to compile?
[11:42] <HammerBlade2020> Seveas, /dev/sda5
[11:42] <Unity> what was the command to check disk speed? dma something?
[11:43] <netwhat> how can i verify that i have forward_ipv4 set
[11:43] <Seveas> HammerBlade2020, that's not a mount point
[11:43] <HammerBlade2020> Seveas, how do i find out
[11:43] <Seveas> HammerBlade2020, mount | grep sda5
[11:43] <Seveas> paste the resulting line in here
[11:43] <HammerBlade2020> Seveas, no resulting line..
[11:43] <Seveas> ok, then mount | grep sda3
[11:44] <HammerBlade2020> Seveas, it's under 2
[11:44] <HammerBlade2020> so do 2?
[11:44] <Seveas> yes
[11:44] <HammerBlade2020> Seveas, still no info
[11:44] <Unity>  <-- those char(s) look like a japanese letter to me. is that normal?
[11:45] <Goldfisch> gopi: I am starting to run out of information. My dmesg is too old, that I can't find useful entries. You may want to try reading http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Configuring_Digital_Sound. BTW: The mythtv wiki this is on has lots of other stuff.
[11:45] <Seveas> Unity, yes
[11:45] <gfrancois> bonjour
[11:45] <_jason> !fr
[11:45] <ubotu> Vas a #ubuntu-fr ou #kubuntu-fr pour de l'aide et de la discussion en francais
[11:46] <tritium> Unity: on my end, it looks like ?CD (in reverse video)
[11:46] <nickrud> Unity, someone (who will remain nameless) mentioned that he aliased :) to a japanese character for that
[11:47] <ROFLCOPTER|`evoL> Seveas, i installed it from package manager now, but i don't see any shortcuts to it or anything :/
[11:47] <Seveas> ROFLCOPTER|`evoL, browse through /usr/share/doc/eggdrop
[11:47] <ROFLCOPTER|`evoL> Seveas you see to be very smart :P
[11:48] <rukuartic> All our base are belong to Seveas
[11:48] <deuce> ubotu tell deuce about pastebin
[11:48] <Seveas> ROFLCOPTER|`evoL, 'seem to be' indeed, I'm not so smart
[11:48] <ROFLCOPTER|`evoL> lol
[11:48] <Francisco> heeloo
[11:48] <Francisco> everybody can somebody help me??
[11:48] <gopi> Goldfisch: Ok xawtv got freezed and its not closing... so I need to log out... thanks for all the help and I will try that site too !
[11:48] <Francisco> can somebody help me?
[11:48] <atoponce> what's up Francisco?
[11:48] <brosioz> anyone could help me with resolvconf ?
[11:48] <brosioz> it change my resolv.conf evry boot
[11:49] <Madpilot> Francisco: if you ask an actual question, some one can probably help...
[11:49] <Seveas> !tell Francisco about somebody
[11:49] <nickrud> brosioz, look in /usr/share/doc/resolvconf, there's some guides in there
[11:49] <Unity> ubuntu changed my life
[11:49] <brosioz> nice nickrud thx
[11:49] <HammerBlade2020> Seveas, when i make the live cd i'll come here and you will help me?
[11:50] <Chyx> Thanks again Seveas and gnomefreak, install anjuta 1.X using apt instead of 2, since 2 wasn't available in the repo I couldn't get the deps either
[11:50] <asdffasf> I love you all! The truth has risen. The holly ghost is uppon all of us!
[11:50] <Francisco> atoponce, I have a big problem with my pc. it is ho dv1325la with a reader cards included ... so this hardware does not work.."
[11:50] <Seveas> HammerBlade2020, most likely not, I'm off to bed in a few minutes
[11:50] <HammerBlade2020> Seveas, ahh okay....
[11:50] <nickrud> brosioz, I haven't messed with setting up a static resolv.conf under resolvconf for a very long time, but it's doable
[11:50] <Francisco> yesterday I cheak in a sd card and it did not works.."
[11:50] <Madpilot> Seveas: just testing, wasn't even sure if I could de-op w/o being op myself :P
[11:51] <atoponce> Francisco, what is a dv1325la?
[11:51] <Seveas> Francisco, those card readers are usualy not working - some people are working on linux drivers but they don't work too good yet
[11:51] <HammerBlade2020> Seveas, my card-reader works perfectly on ubuntu from scratch
[11:52] <Seveas> HammerBlade2020, is that an internal one on an hp laptop?
[11:52] <martii> HammerBlade2020: it must use generic chipset
[11:52] <Francisco> searcher`, o my god.."
[11:52] <Gokur20> join venafro
[11:52] <Francisco> atoponce, it is the model of my laptop...
[11:52] <martii> HammerBlade2020: mine works perfect as well
[11:52] <Gokur20> #join venafro
[11:52] <martii> HammerBlade2020: and few others I tested as well
[11:52] <Francisco> HammerBlade2020, how did you do.
[11:52] <martii> HammerBlade2020: theyuse usb-storage
[11:52] <Seveas> Gokur20, /join #venafro
[11:52] <Francisco> martii, maybe you can help me.."
[11:52] <nickrud> rflol
[11:52] <dejx> any cool tutorial about making ramdisk in ubuntu?
[11:53] <Seveas> martii, the USB ones work perfectly
[11:53] <atoponce> Fransisco, what card readers does it have?
[11:53] <HammerBlade2020> my memory stick one works also.
[11:53] <dejx> i have laptop with 512mb ram, will it be enough?
[11:53] <Seveas> it's those internal ones on laptops that are failing
[11:53] <martii> Francisco: if you card reader is usb one
[11:53] <Seveas> dejx, yes
[11:53] <HammerBlade2020> dejx, plenty
[11:53] <HammerBlade2020> does k3b burn iso's ?
[11:53] <Francisco> martii, no it is incluided.."
[11:53] <martii> Seveas: might be but those usually are connected via usb as well
[11:53] <nickrud> HammerBlade2020, yes, and it's the best recommended one
[11:53] <martii> Francisco: laptop model?
[11:53] <Seveas> martii, not on hp laptops
[11:53] <HammerBlade2020> hmm, yes it does o.0
[11:54] <dejx> i was thinking about moving libs in ramdisk, for faster performance
[11:54] <atoponce> Francisco, if you do a 'sudo fdisk -l' with a card inserted, what shows?
[11:54] <martii> Seveas: I testes toshiba
[11:54] <nickrud> HammerBlade2020, although, right clicking an iso in the filemanager and selecting burn is very simple
[11:54] <martii> tested
[11:54] <martii> Seveas: worked fine on both (different) machines :)
[11:54] <Francisco> atoponce, let me see."
[11:54] <atoponce> Fransico, use pastebin
[11:55] <dolson> does anyone here use Xgl in Gnome and has a minute to tell me if MouseKeys works for you?
[11:55] <Francisco> Disco /dev/hda: 80.0 GB,<PHONE_NUMBER>6 bytes
[11:55] <Francisco> 255 cabezas, 63 sectores/pista, 9729 cilindros
[11:55] <Francisco> Unidades = cilindros de 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes
[11:55] <Francisco> Disposit. Inicio    Comienzo      Fin      Bloques  Id  Sistema
[11:55] <Francisco> /dev/hda1   *           1        9544    76662148+  83  Linux
[11:55] <Francisco> /dev/hda2            9545        9729     1486012+   5  Extendida
[11:55] <Francisco> /dev/hda5            9545        9729     1485981   82  Linux swap / Solaris
[11:55] <tritium> Francisco: dude, don't paste
[11:55] <Jhair> ouch
[11:55] <cppnewbie> hey
[11:55] <Francisco> tritium, sorry
[11:56] <atoponce> pastebin.com
[11:56] <cppnewbie> how do i install the ia32-libs-dev ?
[11:56] <atoponce> is that everything?
[11:56] <Francisco> atoponce, yeah-...
[11:56] <atoponce> hmmm...
[11:56] <atoponce> what card is inserted?
[11:56] <djdrew> hey every one
[11:56] <Francisco> atoponce, sd card
[11:57] <nickrud> cppnewbie, they're not available as such in ubuntu; what is it you're trying to do
[11:57] <atoponce> Fransico, and what distro?  breezy?
[11:57] <Francisco> atoponce, yeah.."
[11:57] <Fredde> I'm having problems using bittorrent
[11:57] <cppnewbie> nickrud, wine on amd64
[11:57] <HammerBlade2020> does the ubuntu live cd come with gparted?
[11:58] <Fredde> I'm behind a router but I have opend the ports
[11:58] <Fredde> still it can't connect to tracker
[11:58] <atoponce> Francisco, it seems that Breezy isn't recognizing your hardware.
[11:58] <nickrud> cppnewbie, ok, they sounded familiar, but I don't use amd64. try sudo apt-get install ia32-libs-dev. if they exist, that'll install them :)
[11:58] <atoponce> Francisco, i don't know what software may help.
[11:58] <Francisco> atoponce, thx.
[11:58] <cppnewbie> dont exist :'(
[11:59] <mihozu> hi
[11:59] <atoponce> Francisco, with the 'sudo fdisk -l', you would be looking for a /dev/sda or something similar
[11:59] <HammerBlade2020> Francisco, card reader?
[11:59] <Francisco> HammerBlade2020, maybe you can help me..
[11:59] <dolson> ok thanks
[11:59] <Francisco> HammerBlade2020, yeah..
[11:59] <ubuntu> Yo
[11:59] <HammerBlade2020> Francisco, my pc has card readers, but only one i use is memory stick, and it works when i push it in automatically.
[11:59] <ttread> Fredde, did you forward the ports using the 'virtual server' function of your router?
[11:59] <Francisco> atoponce, ol
[11:59] <Francisco> ok


[08:00] <dpm> morning all
[08:06] <elfy> morning dpm
[08:13] <dpm> morning!
[08:19] <dholbach> good morning
[08:24] <jose> hey dholbach! how's it going?
[08:24] <dholbach> hey jose
[08:24] <dholbach> busy busy busy, but doing great as well
[08:24] <jose> awesome!
[08:25] <jose> dholbach: I have one favor to ask you... could you please review MP https://code.launchpad.net/~nhaines/uak/namebadges/+merge/208295 once you have some time?
[08:25] <dholbach> ok
[08:26] <jose> thanks a lot :)
[08:30] <dholbach> jose, done
[08:30] <dholbach> now on to my huge todo list
[08:30] <jose> dholbach: you're awesome, I owe you a couple beers when we meet again
[08:30] <jose> have a great day!
[08:31] <dholbach> no worries - you're doing a great job yourself!
[08:31] <dholbach> good night! :-)
[09:34] <czajkowski> dholbach: so how long is your ever growing todo list :)
[10:07] <dholbach> long, got anything to add? :)
[10:18] <czajkowski> dholbach: nope all good :)
[10:18] <czajkowski> just wondering how long a piece of string is ;p
[18:11] <mhall119> jose: where can I find the analytics link for the current onair hangout?
[19:02] <czajkowski> mhall119: random Q but when you set up an on air, on G+ where do you find the link to share to the public ?
[19:03] <mhall119> czajkowski: it's moved recently, there is now a "Links" text in the bottom-right corner,clicking that brings up a popover with the youtube link, event link and embedding code
[19:06] <czajkowski> hmm
[19:06]  * czajkowski goes to find it
[19:06] <czajkowski> cannot for the life of me see it when I went to plus.google.com/hangouts and went to schedule one
[19:07] <czajkowski> mhall119: if you know anyone who is using MongoDB (JuJu folks) and wants to try and win $1000 https://twitter.com/czajkowski/status/438385789404467200
[19:16] <popey> czajkowski: the hangout has to be already on
[19:17] <czajkowski> ahh
[19:18] <czajkowski> that might be why I was getting confused
[19:18] <czajkowski> I wanted to schedule one in advance which you can do, but then I wasn't sure where to reference that


[03:06] <bcurtiswx> do the open source ATI Radeon drivers support 3D ?
[03:44] <charlie-tca> yes
[08:42] <micahg> where do I get gnome tarballs from?
[09:01] <hyperair> ftp.gnome.org?
[09:02] <micahg> hyperair: thanks :)
[09:03] <hyperair> np
[16:47] <sle118> hello everyone
[16:48] <sle118> is this the right place to ask for some technical assistance with gdm?
[16:48] <sle118> I have a problem: I can get to a GUI with startx but not with /etc/init.d/gdm start
[16:50] <sle118> anyoneÉ
[19:24] <Sarvatt_> so http://cgit.freedesktop.org/pixman/commit/?id=1cc750ed92a936d84b47cac696aaffd226e1c02e is what is breaking notify-osd in xorg-edgers, will be a problem when we get pixman 0.20.0 in natty
[19:26] <Sarvatt_> ah wait, better double check this bisect, the timeframe of when pixman broke notify-osd in the PPA matches up though
[19:28] <Sarvatt_> yep thats really the bad commit, noted it on https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/notify-osd/+bug/654921
[19:28] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 654921 in notify-osd (Ubuntu) "Black border in the notifications when effects are turned off (affects: 4) (heat: 24)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[20:50] <ricotz> gilir, hi, i saw you updated the elementary-icon-theme, i hope you can grab the new release to update it?
[20:51] <ricotz> https://launchpad.net/elementaryicons/2.0/2.6
[20:53] <gilir> ricotz, mr_pouit plans to do it next week, but if he doesn't have the time, I'll do it
[20:55] <ricotz> gilir, ok, thank you
[22:43] <RAOF> I wonder if evolution will actually close if I give it enough time...
[22:46] <RAOF> Hah.  Not if it checks for new mail while shutting down.
[23:04] <chrisccoulson> RAOF - yeah, i hate it when it does that
[23:04] <chrisccoulson> it takes 10 minutes to close sometimes on my laptop
[23:05]  * ajmitch doesn't seem to have those problems, but mostly uses it on lucid :)
[23:06] <RAOF> chrisccoulson: I gave up after an hour :)
[23:07] <chrisccoulson> RAOF - that's pretty bad
[23:07] <RAOF> Yeah.  I'm filing a bug.
[23:07] <ajmitch> strace show anything useful from that?
[23:08] <RAOF> ajmitch: I didn't have it attached.  From watching the status bar, it looked like it was checking mail every 10 minutes and not *quite* finishing all the clean up before the next mail check triggered.
[23:08] <ajmitch> 10 minutes to check & clean up is also a bit extreme
[23:09] <RAOF> Yes.


[14:16] <LinDol> hi all
[19:39] <tony1> I have a few issues with nautilus that I was hoping someone had so information about?
[19:40] <tony1> sometimes when I try to open a cifs share it tries to open with gedit I have to restart nautilus to fix the issue.
[19:40] <tony1> also sometimes if I browse for a share and click on the server the share list is empty and I have to refresh several times to get it to list.
[19:40] <tony1> it seems smbtree lists the shares fine as well as manually mounting.this is on ubuntu 14.04 clean-ish install.
[19:47] <[Tahinihummus]> hi guys
[19:48] <[Tahinihummus]> I have a problem, preventing me to upgrade to 15.10 (i'm on Ubu Gnome 15.04). Basically if I try to upgrade I get an error concerning ubuntu-gnome-desktop
[19:51] <[Tahinihummus]> You might want to run 'apt-get -f install' to correct these:
[19:51] <[Tahinihummus]> The following packages have unmet dependencies.
[19:51] <[Tahinihummus]>  ubuntu-gnome-desktop : Depends: gnome-sushi but it is not going to be installed
[19:51] <[Tahinihummus]> E: Unmet dependencies. Try 'apt-get -f install' with no packages (or specify a solution).
[19:51] <[Tahinihummus]> renato@Agartha:~$ sudo apt-get install gnome-sushi
[19:51] <[Tahinihummus]> Reading package lists... Done
[19:51] <[Tahinihummus]> Building dependency tree
[19:51] <[Tahinihummus]> Reading state information... Done
[19:51] <[Tahinihummus]> You might want to run 'apt-get -f install' to correct these:
[19:51] <[Tahinihummus]> The following packages have unmet dependencies.
[19:51] <[Tahinihummus]>  gloobus-sushi : Conflicts: gnome-sushi but 3.16.0-1~vivid0 is to be installed
[19:51] <[Tahinihummus]> E: Unmet dependencies. Try 'apt-get -f install' with no packages (or specify a solution).
[19:51] <[Tahinihummus]> renato@Agartha:~$ sudo apt-get -f install
[19:51] <[Tahinihummus]> Reading package lists... Done
[19:52] <[Tahinihummus]> Building dependency tree
[19:52] <[Tahinihummus]> Reading state information... Done
[19:52] <[Tahinihummus]> Correcting dependencies... Done
[19:52] <[Tahinihummus]> The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required:
[19:52] <[Tahinihummus]>   bamfdaemon libbamf3-2 libcuda1-346-updates libplank-common nvidia-opencl-icd-346-updates
[19:52] <[Tahinihummus]> Use 'apt-get autoremove' to remove them.
[19:52] <[Tahinihummus]> The following packages will be REMOVED
[19:52] <[Tahinihummus]>   ubuntu-gnome-desktop
[19:52] <[Tahinihummus]> 0 to upgrade, 0 to newly install, 1 to remove and 0 not to upgrade.
[19:52] <[Tahinihummus]> 1 not fully installed or removed.
[19:52] <[Tahinihummus]> After this operation, 28.7 kB disk space will be freed.
[19:52] <[Tahinihummus]> Do you want to continue? [Y/n] n
[19:52] <[Tahinihummus]> at that point I chose No
[19:52] <[Tahinihummus]> cause I am not sure on what to do without ubuntu-gnome-desktop
[19:52] <[Tahinihummus]> can anybody give me a hand?
[20:04] <bgardner> Dude... I researched it and you split?
[20:04] <bgardner> (sigh)


[02:22] <nhaines> tsimonq2: sorry, got stuck in traffic and just walked in the door.
[02:23] <tsimonq2> nhaines: it's alright :)
[02:23] <tsimonq2> nhaines: it was really unorganised either way
[02:28] <nhaines> Aww.  Well, sometimes meetings end up that way!
[02:30] <tsimonq2> nhaines: yeah I had something come up last minute that was from 5:30-7:30, then when I arrived, it seemed that mikeputnam actually wasn't starting yet, because they just got tech issues sorted out
[02:31] <tsimonq2> nhaines: so I just joined and cranked it out in < 10 minutes
[02:31] <tsimonq2> lol
[03:28] <nhaines> tsimonq2: sounds like a success!
[03:34] <tsimonq2> lol it was XD
[07:14] <Kilos> o/
[17:08] <tsimonq2> o/ Kilos
[17:08] <tsimonq2> Kilos: yes I am 13 years old :P :D
[17:08] <tsimonq2> Kilos: and yes I run my LoCo
[17:11] <Kilos> well done lad
[17:11] <Kilos> keep it up
[17:11] <Kilos> :D
[17:11] <tsimonq2> :D
[17:21] <Kilos> im only 5 times that old
[17:23] <tsimonq2> lol
[17:23] <svij> I even feel old by being 10 years older than tsimonq2 ;)
[17:23] <tsimonq2> :D
[17:24] <tsimonq2> If you guys know anybody my age who is as involved with Ubuntu as I am, get them in touch with me
[17:25] <tsimonq2> although the average kid my age plays games on the computer still :D
[17:25] <Kilos> yeah
[17:26] <tsimonq2> although I *did* meet a 14 year old through the LoCo
[17:26] <Kilos> where are you again?
[17:26] <tsimonq2> Wisconsin, USA
[17:27] <Kilos> haha svij
[17:29] <tsimonq2> elacheche: ^^
[17:58] <elacheche> tsimonq2: I'm proud of you :) We had 14y guys involved in our loco before, not aymore.. They're adults now x)
[17:59] <tsimonq2> :D


[12:13] <jovans> reiser4, which has the best performance in some tests
[12:13] <mjg59> ...
[12:13] <mjg59> The biggest gap there is 1.5MB
[12:13] <mjg59> Or less than 3%
[12:14] <mjg59> Note that most of those graphs don't start at 0
[12:14] <bhale> faster is nice if you dont care about integrity of your files
[12:14] <jovans> yes but for first impressions
[12:15] <jovans> i am using feisty with reiserfs i think it's v3
[12:15] <mjg59> jovans: The current recommendations for Linux filesystems are to use xfs if you need very large filesystems, and otherwise to use ext3
[12:16] <jovans> ok
[12:16] <jovans> and jfs not recommanded?
[12:16] <mjg59> I've discussed this with filesystem developers, and they agree that ext4 is not appropriate for use yet unless you're developing it
[12:17] <mjg59> jfs has some management tools that you may find useful, but otherwise I don't think there's an especially good reason to choose it
[12:17] <jovans> ok
[12:17] <jovans> than you
[12:17] <jovans> for ur comments
[12:17] <jovans> ;)
[02:04] <poningru> I had a question
[02:05] <poningru> when the ubuntu installed dells go out
[02:05] <poningru> are canonical's servers ready to handle the load/bandwidth?
[02:41] <psusi> BenC: ping
[02:41] <BenC> psusi: yo
[02:42] <psusi> BenC: hey... I was looking at our devmapper package today and it seems that we diverged from debian some time ago... I think you were the last one to modify it, so I was wondering if you could shed some light on the reasons for diverging
[02:42] <psusi> I'm wondering if we can't sync with the new debian version
[02:44] <psusi> and what the process for that is
[02:44] <BenC> err, I can't remember
[02:45] <BenC> psusi: merges.ubuntu.com is a good place to start
[02:46] <psusi> oh yea, another question I had was, why does the version of the package start with 2:?
[02:46] <Amaranth> someone messed up with versioning previously
[02:46] <psusi> don't think I've seen a version with a : in it before
[02:46] <Amaranth> or did a downgrade
[02:46] <psusi> ohh
[02:47] <Amaranth> lots of packages have that
[02:47] <Amaranth> can't remember the name of it now :P
[02:48] <psusi> so like... it was 1.2.3 and so to downgrade back to 1.2.1 you had to prefix it with a 2: to make it higher?
[02:50] <BenC> psusi: X: is an epoch version, the X: part doesn't show, but it gives it newer version than anything with > X, and no X
[02:51] <Amaranth> 1:1.2.1 is newer than 1.2.2
[02:51] <Amaranth> well, sorts higher
[02:52] <psusi> hrm... why would mom not be able to generate a diff3 merge of a file?  showing it as C*?
[03:00] <psusi> hrm... so our package lets udev create the devnode, but in debian they don't?
[03:11] <BenC> psusi: dm/lvm/mdadm/udev is scary stuff, run while you still can
[03:12] <ajmitch> scary stuff labelled with 'here be dragons'
[03:14] <psusi> lol
[03:14] <psusi> too late... I'm already involved with it because of dmraid
[03:14] <psusi> which is the most scary branch of that family
[03:15] <psusi> would also be nice if the mirror dm target were documented somewhere
[03:16] <psusi> I was trying to figure it out from the kernel sources today because it looks like dmraid passes it a sync or nosync option, but afaics the kernel supports no such options
[03:17] <psusi> I'm used to using tortoiseSVN on windows to do three way merges... how can you do a three way merge in linux?
[07:23] <tepsipakki> good morning
[07:23] <tepsipakki> who is wearing the archive admin hat today?
[08:32] <pitti> Good morning
[08:33] <Fujitsu> Hi pitti.
[08:33] <\sh> moins...
[08:33] <Mithrandir> hiya pitti
[08:34] <\sh> pitti, can you read https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/91636 and comment on it...now it's going into a "move between two packages" report, and I don't want to argue with the people...can you, as our security "officer", comment on the topic "why whine shouldn't deliver a .desktop"
[08:34] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 91636 in wine "Mimetype error: *.exe => the filename indicates "executable", while the contents indicated "DOS/Windows executable"" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[08:34] <\sh> s/whine/wine/
[08:35] <Treenaks> \sh: well, some .exes are mono executables, right?
[08:35] <pitti> \sh: "whine" was right :-P yes, will do
[08:35] <\sh> pitti, thx :)
[08:36] <\sh> Treenaks, tbh, I don't have any clue how mono apps are started...but reading /usr/bin/tomboy I can see, that those exes are started via "exec mono tomboy.exe" e.g.
[08:37] <pitti> \sh: hmm, this doesn't look at all related to our discussion yesterday?
[08:37] <pitti> \sh: mono has a binfmt-misc entry as well
[08:38] <\sh> pitti, the thing is, indeed, that +x .exe files can be started via cli, but not via nautilus...kees removed the .desktop file from whine in favour of binfmt...
[08:39] <\sh> and I think because of security...so re-adding the .desktop gives us the possibility to start .exe files via nautilus, but gives you the same pain as before
[08:39] <Fujitsu> Why won't Nautilus execute them now?
[08:39] <pitti> \sh: hm, it looks as if it only gives a confirmation question? the bug doesn't speak about not being able to run them?
[08:39] <pitti> (or does it?)
[08:39] <Treenaks> because nautilus is horribly broken atm (at least, for me :)
[08:39] <\sh> pitti, your "virus bug" is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wine/+bug/85338
[08:39] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 85338 in wine "Security - single click trojan risk" [High,Fix released]
[08:39] <\sh> pitti, I can't run them...(feisty)
[08:40] <\sh> Cannot open /home/shermann/windows/wrar362d.exe: No application suitable for automatic installation is available for handling this kind of file.
[08:40] <Treenaks> Fujitsu: when I try to open a remote share, it dies, when I try to kill, it'll SIG11 all over itself until I kill -9 it... and restarting doesn't fix it
[08:40] <pitti> \sh: hm, so this is another bug in nautilus then, or the associated MIME types
[08:40] <ajmitch> hey pitti
[08:41] <pitti> hi ajmitch
[08:41] <slomo> should be a bug in shared-mime-info then
[08:41] <pitti> \sh: ah, that's not the message that is described in the bug
[08:41] <\sh> pitti, I think it's still dapper/edgy they are talking about
[08:42] <pitti> ah, I see
[08:43] <\sh> but regarding the talks from yesterday on #winehq, we have to protect the users from wine, just because it's in pre-alpha state (remembering the words of an upstream dev) ;)
[08:43] <Fujitsu> Is it ever likely to be in a non-prealpha state?
[08:44] <\sh> Fujitsu, they said, wine is nothing for "john user"
[08:44] <Fujitsu> Which is why we should follow the advice of ubuntuforums' users and install it by default, don't you think?
[08:45] <\sh> Fujitsu, tbh, I don't read the webforums, just because I love my life as it is, and I don't want to bang my head on my desk, everytime I read "install wine by default" or "use automatix and your pain is going away"
[08:45] <Lathiat> we should preinstall windows programs
[08:45] <Lathiat> Ubuntu 7.04 bundled with Microsoft Office 2007
[08:45] <Lathiat> [ Buy now ]
[08:45] <Fujitsu> Lathiat: Right.
[08:46] <\sh> but anyways...I'm right now totally confused what to do...I would prefer the "learning through pain" method...
[08:46] <Fujitsu> \sh: The automatix crap has fortunately almost vanished.
[08:46] <dholbach> good morning
[08:46] <\sh> moins dharrigan
[08:46] <\sh> aeh dholbach
[08:46] <dholbach> hey \sh
[08:47] <\sh> dholbach, do I see you at linuxtag? :)
[08:48] <Mithrandir> Fujitsu: and it'll become even less useful with the new update-manager fixes. :-)
[08:48] <dholbach> \sh: yep :)
[08:48] <Fujitsu> Mithrandir: What's happening now?
[08:49] <Mithrandir> Fujitsu: the plan is to tell the user "you have used software which we know are going to cause severe problems when upgrading, sorry, we can't upgrade this system, please reinstall".
[08:49] <Fujitsu> Oh, good.
[08:49] <\sh> dholbach, cool :) btw..congrats to your vote :)
[08:49] <dholbach> thanks \sh :)
[08:51] <Fujitsu> Wow, impressive Yes:No ratio that you have there, dholbach.
[08:51] <dholbach> I was very happy with it too
[08:52] <Mithrandir> hiya elkbuntu
[08:53] <elkbuntu> hiya
[08:53] <elkbuntu> hadnt realised i was logged in under the alt nick :-/
[09:14] <dholbach> doko: ajmitch is also having trouble doing the pygojbect and pygtk merges - do you know of any changes that might have broken py-dbg?
[09:14] <dholbach> http://pastebin.ca/490767
[09:14] <ajmitch> the files appear to be there & in the right place, but I'm getting things like ^^
[09:17] <doko> dholbach, ajmitch: which package does have pyexpat? is the pyexpat-dbg package installed?
[09:18] <ajmitch> python2.5-dbg
[09:28] <bryyce> seb128: btw, found a quirky but irritating bug when switching workspaces - kde apps start flashing on the window list (bug 114923)
[09:28] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 114923 in gnome-panel "window list highlights kde apps when switching workspaces" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/114923
[09:29] <seb128> bryyce: that's a duplicate ;)
[09:30] <seb128> bug #78511
[09:30] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 78511 in libwnck "Gnome-panel flashing for kde apps on workspace change" [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78511
[09:30] <bryyce> ahh, I hadn't spotted that one
[09:30] <seb128> not easy to know
[09:30] <bryyce> yup, that's definitely it.  cool
[09:30] <seb128> the workspaces, tasks list, etc are often libwnck
[09:30] <seb128> I've marked it duplicate
[09:30] <bryyce> yeah, wasn't really even sure what to search on
[09:30] <doko> ajmitch: python2.5-dbg doesn't install in site-packages
[09:33] <ajmitch> hm right
[09:33] <ajmitch> so I have /usr/lib/python2.5/lib-dynload/pyexpat.so and /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/_xmlplus/parsers/pyexpat.so
[09:33] <ajmitch> first is owned by python2.5, the other by python-xml
[09:34] <doko> so you should have a b-d on python-xml-dbg as well
[09:34] <doko> ?
[09:34] <doko> or build-conflict with python-xml?
[09:35] <ajmitch> this was built in pbuilder, so probably the former
[09:35] <ajmitch> though after installing p-x-dbg, I now get further interesting errors
[09:35] <ajmitch> like ImportError: /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/apt_pkg.so: undefined symbol: Py_InitModule4_64
[09:35] <ajmitch> why it'd even look at apt_pkg is beyond me
[09:36] <doko> is python-apt-dbg installed?
[09:37] <ajmitch> I just installed it, and I'm down to the single error
[09:37] <ajmitch> ImportError: /var/lib/python-support/python2.5/gtk-2.0/gobject/_gobject_d.so: undefined symbol: Py_InitModule4_64
[09:39] <bryyce> Mithrandir, would you mind bumping a post of mine in the moderation queue?  I posted a note about the xserver 1.3 upload but hadn't become a member of the list yet, so it's hung up.
[09:40] <Mithrandir> bryyce: the list = ubuntu-devel or some other list?
[09:40] <bryyce> yes right
[09:42] <Burgundavia> bryyce: -devel or -devel-discuss?
[09:42] <bryyce> ubuntu-devel
[09:42] <Burgundavia> I can clear the latter but the former is somebody else
[09:44] <Treenaks> bryyce: I'd like to see a (test) version of the xserver-xorg-video-ati with http://gitweb.freedesktop.org/?p=xorg/driver/xf86-video-ati.git;a=commit;h=3828237200fc16d4d32664fb8358950c213d4897 applied -- I think it might fix bug 20283 (finally..)
[09:44] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 20283 in xserver-xorg-video-ati "[X700]  Really bad sync on HP NW8240" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/20283
[09:44] <Mithrandir> hm, the password isn't what I've saved in my browser.
[09:44] <StevenK> doko: Do you mind if I borrow/steal some of your merges, like ntp or libidl?
[09:46] <Mithrandir> bryyce: sorry, I thought my password for the ubuntu-devel moderation queue was correct, but apparently it's not.
[09:47] <bryyce> Treenaks: unfortunately fglrx is horribly broken with xserver 1.3 presently
[09:47] <Treenaks> bryyce: that's why it's a patch for radeon/ati
[09:47] <bryyce> Treenaks: oh ok, I'll take a look at it
[09:48] <bryyce> is there a LP bug for this?
[09:48] <Treenaks> bryyce: yes, 20283 (as stated above)
[09:48] <bryyce> Mithrandir: ok no prob, guess I'll wait for mdz
[09:49] <bryyce> Treenaks, oh right, you did.  Okay my brain is mush, I'm going to bed.
[09:49] <Treenaks> bryyce: ok :)
[09:54] <Tonio_> hi :)
[09:55] <mneptok> Tonio_: 'lu!
[09:56] <doko> StevenK: please go ahead!
[09:56] <ajmitch> ok, no change on rebuild
[09:56] <ajmitch> hey mneptok
[09:57] <mneptok> hey hey
[09:57] <mneptok> waznoo ajmitch?
[09:57] <StevenK> doko: Thanks!
[10:02] <dholbach> gpocentek: will we get the new goffice/gnumeric? :-)
[10:05] <ajmitch> mneptok: fighting packages :)
[10:07] <mneptok> ajmitch: i said "new" ;)
[10:07] <StevenK> Mithrandir: Got a sec so I bounce an idea off of you?
[10:08] <Mithrandir> StevenK: shoot
[10:11] <StevenK> Mithrandir: xbitmaps is listed as a manual merge - I've done it, considering the only benefit I can see makes the patch on patches.u.c fall to nearly nothing, do you think it's worth it?
[10:13] <Mithrandir> EPARSE; I'm not sure what you're asking.
[10:13] <StevenK> Mithrandir: Sorry, I ought to be clearer.
[10:15] <StevenK> Mithrandir: Okay, so xbitmaps is listed as a manual merge. I've done it, but the only benefit I can see is it makes the patch on patches.u.c to be very small. Do you think it's worthwhile to upload it?
[10:15] <tepsipakki> xbitmaps is one of 23 xorg packages of which we have a different tarball
[10:16] <Mithrandir> ah
[10:16] <StevenK> Yes. The tarball is different, but contains the same files.
[10:16] <Mithrandir> I don't see why it wouldn't be, if you've already spent the effort.
[10:39] <jdub> seb128: dude, i am so happy to hear that a whole trilogy of hollywood films will be made about your life!
[10:40] <dholbach> jdub: link? :)
[10:41] <seb128> jdub: what?
[10:41] <jdub> http://www.smh.com.au/news/film/ah-ah-ah/2007/05/15/1178995158803.html
[10:41] <seb128> ah ah ah ;)
[10:41] <dholbach> hahaha :-)
[10:42] <Chipzz> jdub: is there a way to see older entries that scrolled of planet (gnome)?
[10:42] <jdub> Chipzz: no, but you can search for them with the custom google search thingy
[10:42] <jdub> seb128: :-)
[10:43] <Chipzz> jdub?
[11:01] <gpocentek> dholbach: of course! ;)
[11:03] <dholbach> gpocentek: rock and roll
[11:03] <dholbach> gracias
[11:19] <dholbach> doko: do you know of any plans to have the pydbg changes in Debian too?
[11:19] <doko> dholbach: they already are
[11:20] <doko> still needs to be announced
[11:20] <dholbach> doko: oh? so it's "just a matter of bringing our changes into debian too"?
[11:20] <slomo> and waiting ages until all million NEW packages are processed ;)
[11:21] <doko> dholbach: exactly
[11:21] <dholbach> that's good news
[11:21] <dholbach> the merges are somewhat painful if we'd have to do them every now and then
[11:24] <fierycleric> hi, how can i build a package with different configure flags?
[11:43] <gnomefreak> fierycleric: #ubuntu-motu might be better place to ask but alot of packages (all ive ever dealt with) has the config options in the debian/rules file
[11:45] <fierycleric> thanks ive RTFM now and found what i was looking for :) .... whats #ubuntu-motu  for?
[11:45] <gnomefreak> the place to ask questions getting help with packaging
[11:46] <fierycleric> i am there... .:)
[12:14] <elmo> I thought like, any laptop in the world, ever - worked with vesa?
[12:15] <Mithrandir> there's a bug in the VESA driver in feisty which makes it fall over on some machines, like some ATI machines.
[12:15] <Mithrandir> iirc
[12:16] <elmo> Mithrandir: yeah, that's what I'm seeing
[12:18] <elmo> and for bonus points the wired network doesn't seem to work either - this is just wintastic
[12:19] <TheMuso> Mithrandir: Ok to do your ccid merge for universe?
[12:19] <Mithrandir> TheMuso: please.
[12:28] <tepsipakki> the bug is in the server
[12:34] <tepsipakki> how can I find out if other packages build-dep on a package? grep-dctrl seems cryptic, even the examples don't work
[12:35] <Mithrandir> checkrdepends can do it
[12:36] <Mithrandir> unsure if that's packaged
[12:36] <elmo> apt-rdepends works and is packaged
[12:37] <tepsipakki> thanks, I'll try that
[12:40] <Gman> hey jono
[12:40] <jono> hey
[12:40] <jono> hows things Gman?
[12:40] <jono> Gman: you over at GUADEC?
[12:41] <Gman> yeah
[12:41] <Gman> hopefully
[12:42] <jono> Gman: good stuff :)
[12:42] <Gman> should be a whole bunch of fun
[12:42] <tepsipakki> E: Reverse build-dependencies are not supported
[12:42] <tepsipakki> hmh
[12:43] <StevenK> Yes, you can't ask "What packages Build-Depend on this one"
[12:43] <pitti> tepsipakki: what do you need? I can look it up in the DC
[12:44] <tepsipakki> pitti: I need to find out what packages build-dep on xutils/xlibs-dev/xbase-clients
[12:44] <seb128> tepsipakki: use grep-dctrl
[12:44] <tepsipakki> seb128: I tried ;)
[12:44] <siretart> tepsipakki: alias revbuilddeb='grep-dctrl -F Build-Depends -s Package $1 -n /var/lib/apt/lists/*_Sources'
[12:45] <pitti> tepsipakki: I copied the script to http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/scripts/checkrdepends
[12:45] <tepsipakki> siretart: ah, that could work
[12:46] <tepsipakki> pitti: thanks
[12:46] <pitti> tepsipakki: see /query, but may be best to run that script yourself
[12:47] <seb128> tepsipakki: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/germinate-output/gutsy/rdepends/xorg/xutils also
[12:47] <tepsipakki> seb128: whow
[12:47] <tepsipakki> -h
[12:54] <seb128> tepsipakki: "* Reverse Build-Depends:" is likely what you want
[12:54] <tepsipakki> seb128: that's right, bookmark added
[12:59] <tepsipakki> ok, all those that have reverse build-deps on xlibs-dev also depend on the correct package (like "libx11-dev | xlibs-dev"), so I think xlibs-dev can be dropped.
[01:01] <tepsipakki> same for reverse depends
[01:05] <pitti> tepsipakki: right, checkrdepends doesn't handle alternatives
[01:06] <pitti> tepsipakki: but not all
[01:06] <pitti> tepsipakki: I just ran melanie -n -R (from dak) which does respect alternatives
[01:06] <pitti> tepsipakki: http://paste.stgraber.org/906
[01:07] <pitti> tepsipakki: the hppa ones can be ignored, it's hopelessly out of date anyway
[01:07] <pitti> tepsipakki: this check was on feisty though, so the build deps might be fixed in gutsy
[01:08] <tepsipakki> ok, germinate only lists main, right?
[01:08] <pitti> I'm not sure, but probable
[01:08] <pitti> e. g. kmplayer still b-deps on xlibs-dev without alternative
[01:09] <tepsipakki> yeah.. there are a lot of them.. I'll check those
[01:10] <pitti> tepsipakki: only ~ 10, would be easy to fix them if you want to get rid of it
[01:11] <pitti> merging them with Debian might help, too
[01:11] <tepsipakki> I'll see what can be done
[01:16] <pygi> hi hi folks
[01:19] <tepsipakki> grrr
[01:20] <tepsipakki> bbdate merge was sloppy
[01:21] <tepsipakki> meaning that the changes to build-deps were dropped. I'll fix that
[02:02] <tepsipakki> ok, wmacpiload/wmbatteries/wmfortune/xqbiff/xreverse/squeak-vm have all been removed from debian, I guess
[02:02] <tepsipakki> so they should be removed from ubuntu too, right?
[02:03] <ogra> no !!!
[02:03] <StevenK> Heh
[02:03] <tepsipakki> :)
[02:03] <ogra> not squeak at least
[02:04] <ogra> we're maintaining our own package here
[02:04] <tepsipakki> ogra: ok, in that case I'll update it
[02:04] <StevenK> Oh yes, I can picture xqbiff having, ohhh, no users at all!
[02:04] <ogra> tepsipakki, the edubuntu team will take care of it ..
[02:05] <pygi> tepsipakki, debian folks sometimes (read: often) can do weird things
[02:06] <pygi> StevenK, yes? ^^
[02:06] <tepsipakki> ogra: ok, could you adjust the build-deps so it doesn't dep on xlibs-dev?
[02:06] <bintut> hello all..  anyone here from the ubuntu embedded team?
[02:06] <StevenK> pygi: I'm a DD, as are a bunch of people here. :-)
[02:07] <pygi> StevenK, my statement still stands :)
[02:07] <StevenK> I wasn't disagreeing. :-)
[02:07] <dholbach> bintut: ubuntu mobile team?
[02:07] <pygi> StevenK, good, good :)
[02:08] <bintut> dholbach: i don't know the right name of the team.. i just read the announcement of developing ubuntu for embedded/mobile edition
[02:08] <dholbach> bintut: try #ubuntu-mobile
[02:08] <bintut> dholbach: ok.. thanks..
[02:08] <dholbach> anytime
[02:10] <ogra> tepsipakki, nopted
[02:10] <tepsipakki> filed a bug about the removal of those (apart from dear squeak-vm ;)
[02:10] <ogra> *noteed
[02:10] <ogra> argh
[02:10] <ogra> *noted
[02:10] <tepsipakki> heh
[02:13] <pitti> tepsipakki: will take care of that on Friday
[02:13] <tepsipakki> pitti: good
[02:29] <pitti> doko: what do you think of cow-trading merges? I currently have zope3; can I leave that to you and do some of yours? (like belocs-locales-bin and coreutils)
[02:30] <doko> pitti: sure
[02:30] <pitti> ok, grabbing those then
[02:32] <farion> i have successfully have compiled the linux-source-2.6.22 package, but how can i add the sources of linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.22?
[03:15] <robertj> what do you think of some kind of custom add-on for the wiki that provided some way for people to designate sections as being version specific and let people set a session variable to designate what version they wanted to see
[03:16] <robertj> "This page contains information about a specific version of Ubuntu. Please select which version of the page you wish to see. <select />"
[03:17] <doko> pitti: should / can we promote db4.5 to main?
[03:18] <doko> pitti: what was the rationale to drop libdb-dev as b-d in curl?
[03:18] <pitti> doko: certainly
[03:19] <pitti> doko: I'd just appreciate if we could drop an older version at some point
[03:19] <doko> pitti: lets get rid of all but db4.5
[03:19] <pitti> db4.2 is only used by cyrus-sasl2, libintl-perl, openldap2{,.3}
[03:20] <doko> cyrus could be problematic
[03:20] <pitti> 6 reverse build deps for db4.3
[03:20] <pitti> anything that uses on-disk transactions is problematic
[03:20] <pitti> I guess that should affect a few packages
[03:21] <pitti> and 12 r-build-deps for 4.4
[03:21] <pgquiles> I am trying to package a library using debhelper but I am doing something is wrong. dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot installs files fine in debian/tmp/usr/lib and debian/tmp/usr/share, but then they are not copied to mylib/usr/lib, mylib/usr/share, mylib-dev/usr/lib and mylib-dev/usr/share. I am following http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=51003
[03:22] <pitti> pgquiles: that's #ubuntu-motu stuff; however, you are probably missing debian/mylib-dev.install
[03:22] <pochu> pgquiles: #ubuntu-motu is a better place to ask about packaging :)
[03:22] <pitti> pgquiles: man dh_install(1)
[03:23] <pitti> keescook: do you still remember how to workaround the coreutils local FTBFS with '../../src/dircolors: no SHELL environment variable, and no shell type option given'?
[03:23] <pgquiles> thank you, joining #ubuntu-motu
[03:23] <keescook> pitti: agh, I don't sorry.
[03:23] <keescook> (how did you know I was awake?!)  :)
[03:24] <pitti> keescook: I didn't, it was just IRC-queueing :)
[03:24] <pitti> good mornign
[03:25] <keescook> mornin'.  dogs got me up early; thought I'd do some email and then catch breakfast.  :)
[03:25] <keescook> afair, building in chroot worked
[04:19] <Markus2> As https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pidgin/+bug/88901 is my first bug fixing for Ubuntu, please allow me to ask if I need to do something else: Inform a developer, provide additional information? I'm not sure if the patch is enough?
[04:19] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 88901 in pidgin "[apport]  gaim-url-handler crashed with Error in __call__()" [Medium,Fix committed]
[04:20] <seb128> Markus2: it's too much change to be accepted
[04:21] <seb128> Markus2: your patch change most of the file
[04:21] <seb128> a fix for this bug should be like 1 line
[04:22] <Markus2> Seb128: So the bugs stays open? You can't change the problem with one line, as the whole file was buggy with gaim Beta6. I don't get it.
[04:31] <Markus2> Seb128: So the bugs stays open? You can't change the problem with one line, as the whole file was buggy with gaim Beta6. I don't get it. I would be happy if you provide additional information, so I can avoid wasting time when trying to fix the next bug.
[04:32] <pygi> seb128, tbh if bug affects a lot of users, we *should* fix it
[04:32] <seb128> Markus2: gutsy has pidgin 2.0.0 which fixes the bug if I understand correctly
[04:32] <pitti> seb128: hm, most of the patch is just removing the backup file, the rest doesn't actually look that scary?
[04:32] <Markus2> Gutsy of course. So Feisty won't see a fix?
[04:32] <seb128> pitti: that doesn't look like a high importance bug to me, if we start to fix such ones we will get 100 desktop SRU during the feisty cycle
[04:33] <seb128> Markus2: the bug is not too important, I don't think it's worth a SRU, no
[04:33] <Markus2> pitti: It's my first patch, sorry if I did something wrong. Hints are highly appreciated
[04:33] <pitti> ooh, we are talking about an SRU here? right, no way then
[04:33] <seb128> pitti: nothing wrong, that just doesn't look like a stable update candidate to me
[04:33] <Markus2> Sorry to be dumb, what's a SRU?
[04:33] <pitti> Markus2: I thought it was about fixing gutsy, since the bug is still marked open for it
[04:34] <pochu> !sru | Markus2
[04:34] <ubotu> Markus2: Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates for main and restricted, while https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/SRU is for universe and multiverse.
[04:34] <pitti> seb128: 'stable release update'
[04:34] <seb128> pitti: gaim has been replaced by pidgin
[04:34] <seb128> pitti: that's for Markus2
[04:34] <seb128> pitti: I've not looked how to deal with the some hundred bugs yet
[04:34] <pitti> seb128: so the bug should just be close then, I figure?
[04:34] <seb128> pitti: yes, reassigned to pidgin and marked fixed
[04:35] <seb128> it's on pidgin
[04:35] <seb128> just need to be closed then
[04:35] <seb128> doing that
[04:35] <seb128> Markus2: nothing wrong, you just sent a patch for a bug already fixed to gutsy
[04:36] <seb128> Markus2: and we do backport fix to stable only when the bug is really important or annoying lot of users which is not the case of this one
[04:41] <Markus2> Well, thanks Sebastien for taking the time to look into it. I still don't understand the issue fully as I can't see any side-effects with fixing the totally useless gaim-url-handler now. But I respect that you for sure have good reasons to handle like you do. I'm still in the learning process. I'm just a bit disappointed when every single Wiki-Page encourages you to provide help and then the whole work was just useless. So I will concentrate
[04:41] <seb128> Markus2: it was not useless, but you worked on something already fixed
[04:42] <seb128> Markus2: we use pidgin instead of gaim now
[04:42] <seb128> Markus2: and it's fixed to pidgin
[04:43] <Markus2> I do understand that issue for gutsy. Still, the bug exists in Feisty. I did understand that part of your message. And: If I work on something without a chance to get into feisty and fixed in gutsy, then it *is* wasted time :-)
[04:43] <seb128> Markus2: we could discuss doing a feisty upload, but read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates for some background on stable updates (they require qa team work, regression testing, etc)
[04:44] <seb128> Markus2: next time maybe ask if the bug is a candidate for a stable update before starting on it, that one has no feisty task open
[04:44] <sharms> Markus2: if you find a bug like that, and want to help (we want you to help!) the best thing to do is hang out in #ubuntu-motu and ask before working on it
[04:44] <sharms> Markus2: generally someone there will know about it and if it still needs to be fixed
[04:44] <seb128> Markus2: we can't spend qa time to test regression for every bug
[04:47] <Markus2> Thanks everyone for taking the time to explain me some rules I wasn't aware off. SEE YOU.
[05:30] <bddebian> Heya
[05:49] <tkamppeter> I have a question about replacing an obsolete package by a new package:
[05:50] <tkamppeter> The obsolete package is gs-esp and its replacement is the already existing gs-gpl
[05:50] <tkamppeter> Is it correct when I let the gs-gpl have
[05:51] <tkamppeter> Confilcts: gs-esp (<< 8.60)
[05:51] <tkamppeter> Replaces: gs-esp (<< 8.60)
[05:51] <tkamppeter> Provides: gs-esp
[05:52] <tkamppeter> and I let the gs-gpl source package make a transitional package named gs-esp which depends on gs-gpl
[05:52] <tkamppeter> Is this correct?
[05:53] <bddebian> tkamppeter: Sounds right but I'm no expert on the matter
[06:01] <tkamppeter> Especially I also woul like to know how the upload will work, as gs-gpl will ship the (transitional) binary package gs-esp and the gs-esp which is still in the archives will also ship a binary package named gs-esp.
[06:07] <pitti> tkamppeter: that sounds fine
[06:07] <pitti> tkamppeter: right, there will be two gs-esp packages in the archive (built by different sources), the highest version will win
[06:08] <pitti> tkamppeter: so you need to make sure that the transitional gs-esp has a higher version than the current gs-esp
[06:08] <pitti> tkamppeter: with the versions in the archive that's already the case
[06:10] <bddebian> Is there any reason to keep gs-esp in the archive?
[06:10] <pitti> tkamppeter: ^ if gs-esp will disappear upstream and is not needed any more, I'd remove it
[06:14] <tkamppeter> pitti, gs-esp and gs-afpl can be removed. gs-esp is not provided upstream any more and gs-afpl is the same as gs-gpl now.
[06:16] <tkamppeter> pitti, I have added appropriate lines in the control file and transitional packages to automatically uninstall all packages of gs-esp, gs-afpl, gs-aladdin, gs wheninstalling gs-gpl.
[06:17] <tkamppeter> pitti, gs-gpl will be the only Ghostscript then, as it is the newest Ghostscript and it provides full functionality.
[06:19] <Burgundavia> is there any reason to have the license name in the package then?
[06:19] <Burgundavia> why not just call it gs?
[06:22] <tkamppeter> Burgundavia, perhaps we better wait for Debian what they do with the package names.
[06:22] <Burgundavia> that is probably sane
[06:27] <tkamppeter> pitti, so after my testing I will make the new gs-gpl available for you to upload. With this upload gs-esp and gs-afpl can be removed.
[07:04] <xst> Since upgrading to feisty I have no sound. How can I see if there is any progress in bug #108288?
[07:04] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 108288 in linux-source-2.6.20 "Audio is played in "slow motion"" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/108288
[07:17] <pitti> tkamppeter: great, thanks
[07:18] <Burgundavia> xst: by checking the bug
[07:29] <Hobbsee> morning all!
[07:32] <seb128> hey Hobbsee
[07:33] <Hobbsee> heya seb128!
[07:34] <Amaranth> hey Hobbsee (late)
[07:34] <Burgundavia> hey Hobbsee
[07:34] <Hobbsee> hiya Amaranth, Burgundavia :)
[07:35] <Amaranth> ooh, xchat-gnome does a little ding now
[07:35] <Amaranth> i ditched pulseaudio, it was causing too many wakeups
[07:36] <Burgundavia> playing with that powertop thingy?
[07:36] <Amaranth> yeah
[07:36] <Amaranth> it's sad though
[07:37] <Amaranth> Wakeups-from-idle per second :  839.8
[07:37] <Burgundavia> not yet on gutsy, need the tickless kernel
[07:38] <Amaranth> things i hate:
[07:38] <Amaranth>   36.7% (161.6)       <interrupt> : uhci_hcd:usb4, nvidia
[07:38] <Amaranth>   11.4% (50.2)       <interrupt> : uhci_hcd:usb3, yenta, ipw3945
[07:38] <Amaranth>   10.6% (46.8)       <interrupt> : HDA Intel
[07:39] <Burgundavia> interesting to see the numbers on a warty install
[07:40] <Ng> Amaranth: woah, that's a pretty good score
[07:41] <Ng> I thought my 300 or so were bad ;)
[07:41] <Amaranth> Ng: what do you get 300 from?
[07:41] <Amaranth> ipw3945 and nvidia kick me out of C3
[07:41] <Ng> Amaranth: thinkpad x40. feisty install I booted with a gutsy kernel to test powertop with
[07:42] <Amaranth> oh, you get 300 total?
[07:42] <Amaranth> while running X?
[07:42] <Amaranth> s/X/GNOME desktop/
[07:42] <Ng> yes, while running my regular setup
[07:42] <Ng> but that has wifi and stuff, so it's expected to wake up. also I didn't put in any of the patches
[07:42] <Amaranth> if i stop X and hit the kill switch on my wireless i get down to ~80
[07:43] <Ng> I didn't apply any patches, so I didn't get to keithp levels, but with init, bash and some kernel modules it was idling about 35 and spending >90% of the time in C4
[07:43] <Ng> interestingly though, that didn't drop the power usage more than a W or two
[07:43] <Amaranth> i don't even get power usage reports
[07:47] <Amaranth> i'm guessing things calling schedule_timeout (process_timeout) or do_nanosleep should be smacked about
[07:54] <er1> does someone knows how can I redefine my default g++ compiler?
[07:54] <er1> I want to change it from g++-4.0 to g++-3.3
[07:54] <er1> I have both compilers installed.
[07:55] <er1> right now in the /usr/bin directory I have: g++ -> g++4.0
[07:56] <Pici> er1: relink /usr/bin/g++ to whichever version you want to use
[08:30] <geser> mdz: the last log for xmms2 contains only "/bin/sh: Syntax error: "(" unexpected" as reason but no info about the called command (which it did in the last logs). Do you have an idea how to get this info back?
[08:32] <mdz> geser: no, I don't
[08:32] <mdz> sounds like changes to the shell on the buildds; I vaguely recall hearing something about that
[08:34] <Hobbsee> hiya mdz - you made it back OK then?
[08:37] <mdz> Hobbsee: I did, thank you.  and you as well?
[08:37] <Hobbsee> mdz: sort of
[08:37] <Hobbsee> :)
[08:37] <Hobbsee> mdz: took 36 hours, 4 and a bit planes, 3 trains, 1 car, and 1 taxi.
[08:38] <Hobbsee> mdz: now you can see why i was whining the last night when we started playing Mao :P
[08:38] <mdz> that's a long way, even for .au
[08:38] <mdz> that's about as long as it took rtg to get home
[08:38] <Hobbsee> it should have only been about 32
[08:39] <Hobbsee> rtg?
[08:39] <Hobbsee> elkbuntu and ajmitch's were slightly longer again
[08:39] <Hobbsee> mdz: you've got to remember though - au just *is* a long way away.
[08:39] <mdz> rtg is a kernel developers who lives in Montana
[08:39] <Hobbsee> ahh
[08:40] <Hobbsee> and i'm almost over the jetlag - woo!  :P
[08:40] <racarr> Didn't you just sleep from 3 PM to 3 AM?
[08:41] <Hobbsee> yes
[08:41] <Hobbsee> but that's better than the 6am to 6pm from the day before
[08:41] <racarr> Fair enough.
[08:44] <truz_`24> where is linux/config.h?
[08:44] <Hobbsee> hah.  now the horrible truth about the smokes comes out...
[10:42] <ajmitch> morning
[10:44] <sharms> hey
[10:44] <Hobbsee> hi ajmitch!
[10:54] <pata_sis_prob> good evening
[10:55] <pata_sis_prob> i got a problem with the pata_sis module on a fresh ubuntu 7.04 installation
[10:55] <pata_sis_prob> could somebody please explain how i can solve this problem by chrooting the system from a live-cd and compiling the kernel with the necessary patch?
[11:10] <sharms> apokryphos: I don't believe ATI ever said they are releasing their drivers open source.  That enterprise linux blog was commenting about the same things Chris Blizzard was, and I think they just over eagerly paraphrased things
[11:13] <sharms> I believe they said "we are committed to fixing our problems with open source", not "we will open source our drivers"
[11:14] <sharms> and from my correspondence with AMD, they are developing another closed source rewrite of fglrx, which can only be obtained through NDA at this point
[11:14] <apokryphos> hm, still sounds hard for a huge room of people to misinterpret
[11:14] <sharms> I trust chris blizzard over enterprise linux blog though
[11:15] <bhale> I trust them to show us
[11:15] <bhale> throwing speculation all over the internet isnt helping anyone
[11:16] <sharms> bhale: no I just posted a possibly derogatory blog entry about AMD and how they should open source the drivers, so I was just clarifying that as far as I know they didn't commit to releasing any source
[11:16] <sharms> but if I am wrong, I would take the entry down, just checking to make sure I got my end straight
[11:18] <apokryphos> hm, Blizzard doesn't seem to explicitly state that they didn't say that
[11:18] <mjr> incidentally, it does seem to me too that people are reading too much into what ATI actually said
[11:18] <apokryphos> now, if only these talks were online 8)
[11:19] <mjr> so putting on pressure to do what people think they said is good :]
[11:19] <sharms> ha, new blog entry: "Redhat open source your talks with the ATI guy!"
[11:22] <apokryphos> sharms: either way, especially with the hype about it atm, calling for a boycott of amd is definitely jumping the gun (at this point) ;-)
[11:23] <mjg59> Could we not have this discussion here, please?
[11:23] <apokryphos> sure
[11:24] <mjg59> Ta
[11:24] <mjg59> -offtopic might be a better choice
[11:26] <mjr> sharms, incidentally, url to the blog?
[11:40] <sharms> mjr: http://www.sharms.org/blog