[00:22] <tehpunkprodigy_> hey guys, anybody know what setting could cause the audio to sound poorly while watching tv?
[00:23] <nettow0822_> Have you looked at the troubleshooting guide?
[00:23] <tehpunkprodigy_> I installed mythbuntu 7.10 and now my audio is all grainy while watching tv, I had dapper installed before and it worked perfectly, so there must be a config error
[00:23] <tehpunkprodigy_> yes, for the past week
[00:23] <nettow0822_> sorry that is all I can offer
[00:24] <tehpunkprodigy_> my problem has something to do with the "digitizing" of the audio, because playing audio using analog(tvtime) sounds fine
[00:25] <nwidger> hello, anyone around?
[00:26] <tehpunkprodigy_> sure
[00:26] <nwidger> hi
[00:26] <nwidger> so i want to edit the lirc configuration for my remote
[00:26] <nwidger> yet when i change $HOME/.lircrc and restart mythtv, the changes dont work
[00:26] <nettow0822_> so what do you want to do?
[00:26] <nwidger> make the Back button on my mceusb remote do Escape
[00:27] <nwidger> so i added a begin...end block with Back as the button and Escape in the config field
[00:27] <nettow0822_> are you closing the program (ex mythtv) and restarting after you make the lirc change?
[00:27] <nwidger> restart mythtvfrontend, hit the button.. nothing happens
[00:27] <nwidger> and there aren't any other references to the Back button in the config file
[00:28] <nwidger> and /usr/share/lirc/remotes/mceusb/lircd.conf file lists Back as the name of a button, and irw confirms it
[00:28] <nwidger> nettow0822_: yeah, i restart mythfrontend after making the change
[00:32] <nwidger> any ideas?
[00:56] <tehpunkprodigy> huh the recording profiles were all set by default to the lowest possible audio rate, thats strange
[02:23] <matooke> what should I use with the hauppauge pvr-150 card? V4L or mpeg-2?
[02:48] <nettow0822__> tgm4883 you awake?
[04:39] <crazedCrazed> hey how do I start a application are startup ?
[04:39] <crazedCrazed> at*
[04:58] <mindframe_> is the next release of mythbuntu going to include mythtv 0.21 ?
[05:12] <rushfan> 2007-12-29 00:10:32.822 RingBuf(/video/1044_20071229001026.mpg): Invalid file (fd -1) when opening '/video/1044_20071229001026.mpg' --> Anyone here ever get that?
[05:29] <kmyth> how do i get mythbackend to start on boot
[10:10] <frink__> hullo
[10:35] <MilhousePunkRock> How do I determine the command xfce uses to hibernate the machine? I want to use that as the shutdown command (for some reason, my machine will only wake up from /proc/acpi/alarm from hibernation, not from complete power-off)
[14:01] <MilhousePunkRock> Hello everyone!
[14:16] <Daviey> MilhousePunkRock: hey, i hear you got your nova-t 500 remote working?
[14:17] <MilhousePunkRock> Daviey: Indeed... Had to compile v4l myself, but with mercurial, that was really a piece of cake!
[14:17] <Daviey> and that was it, just worked?
[14:18] <MilhousePunkRock> Daviey: Even better news: The MythBox is currently in the living room, my girlfriend is watching "Ghost Whisperer" which I recorded for her yesterday
[14:18] <Daviey> yah WAF
[14:18] <MilhousePunkRock> Daviey: Yes, the "with 2 devices inside" message on dmesg turned into "5 devices" after that
[14:19] <MilhousePunkRock> There was some tweaking involved, I used the config files from the MythTV wiki for the remote and after that M-C-C has the remote greyed out...
[14:20] <Daviey> MilhousePunkRock: care to describe14:16:54 < Daviey> MilhousePunkRock: hey, i hear you got your nova-t 500 remote working?
[14:20] <MilhousePunkRock> No manual configuration needed for TV-Out though... The composite on my GeForce 6200 "just works"(TM)
[14:20] <Daviey> whoops
[14:20] <Daviey> 14:17:24 < MilhousePunkRock> +Daviey: Indeed... Had to compile v4l myself, but with mercurial, that was really a piece of  cake!
[14:20] <Daviey> Care to describe how, i've got a friend who wants to get his remote working on a production box
[14:22] <MilhousePunkRock> I pretty much just followed the wiki, http://mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Hauppauge_WinTV_Nova-T_500_PCI
[14:24] <Daviey> ta
[14:24] <MilhousePunkRock> It's completely accurate, and then I replaced the config files for the remote with those posted there. Of course one has to match /dev/input/eventX
[14:26] <MilhousePunkRock> How can I determine which command the log-out dialog of xfce uses to hibernate the system? I'd like to use that for MythTV to shut down the system, my machine will only wake up with ACPI wake-up from hibernate or suspend, not from power-off
[14:28] <MilhousePunkRock> Daviey: What's not working with the remote is holding down a key and having it repeated, I wonder if that's hardware-sided. irw does only report one keypress if I hold down a key
[14:29] <MilhousePunkRock> For volume for instance (I do have volume control working via a softvol device in the .asoundrc :D )
[14:51] <Daviey> MilhousePunkRock: You can send acpi commands, but they need to be done as root / suid
[14:51] <MilhousePunkRock> Daviey: visudo is the way to go for that, I assume... But I need to know those commands...
[14:58] <Daviey> MilhousePunkRock: there's a few ways of doing it
[14:58] <Daviey> 'hibernate' the application
[14:58] <Daviey> suspend2 application
[14:59] <MilhousePunkRock> I wonder if the /etc/acpi/hibernate.sh is getting called from the logout dialog
[14:59] <Daviey> as root: echo -n mem > /sys/power/state
[14:59] <Daviey> it is AFAIK
[15:00] <MilhousePunkRock> Daviey: In that case I would only need that as the shutdown command and have "user" in the sudoers execute it without password prompt, and probably "mythtv" too
[16:01] <canute> ubuntu does not detect my tv capture card...
[16:02] <canute>  Congratulations!  Your TV card vendor saved a few
[16:02] <canute> [   12.152000] saa7134:  cents for a eeprom, thus your pci board has no
[16:02] <canute> [   12.152000] saa7134:  subsystem ID and I can't identify it automatically
[16:03] <canute> i am getting the followind message when i try dmesg...
[16:03] <canute> is there anybody here who could help me.....
[16:05] <canute> is this the right place to ask questions about tv tuner card???
[16:17] <Sieg_at_war> help
[16:22] <Smoerrebroed> Help is just an illusion.
[16:58] <Sieg_at_war> ok
[17:23] <superm1> !ask
[17:23] <ubotu> Don't ask to ask a question. Just ask your question :)
[18:16] <hasse> hello, anyone know why my mythstream dosent work after an upgrade, some problems about, mythstream compiled with a old version of libmyth, how to solve that ?
[18:27] <superm1> hasse, on which build?
[18:27] <superm1> on the weekly ones?
[18:32] <hasse> the latest nightly build
[18:36] <superm1> trunk?
[18:36] <superm1> or fixes
[18:36] <superm1> (and they are weekly not nightly)
[18:37] <hasse> trunk
[18:37] <superm1> mythstream isn't usually rebuilt against trunk, but i guess that's a good point that it should be
[18:37] <superm1> we can add that to our build script i suppose
[18:37] <superm1> look for it in next week's build, ok?
[18:38] <hasse> would be nice, but when wuold it be updated ?
[18:38] <superm1> everyweekend
[18:38] <superm1> so we havent done this weekend's yet
[18:38] <superm1> but will be doing them tonight or tomorrow
[18:38] <superm1> and they are usually one day delayed to mirrors
[18:39] <hasse> that would be lovely, thanks
[20:13] <don> Hello. I have set up my Mythbuntu back end so that it can be seen by my ps3. The problem is that the ps3 doesn't find any files. How do I add my existing content (movies and music) to Mythbuntu?
[20:31] <hasse> anyone knows anything about a audioscrobbler plugin for mythmusic ?
[21:01] <Chads_> Has anyone tried Windows Media Centre in comparison to MythTV?
[21:04] <nwidger> hello
[21:04] <nwidger> so i want to modify the remote bindings in mythbuntu
[21:04] <nwidger> i have a working config, but i want to customize it
[21:04] <nwidger> what do i need to edit?
[21:09] <hasse> nwidger: ~/.lircrc i think
[21:52] <rinaldi_> if i set a program to record from one of my frontends andexit it, will it still record? also im getting "decoder MAD" error when trying to play music from one of my frontends
[22:05] <don_> Hello, I'm back. I have set up my Mythbuntu back end so that it can be seen by my ps3. The problem is that the ps3 doesn't find any files. How do I add my existing content (movies and music) to Mythbuntu?
[22:15] <MythbuntuGuest83> Hello all - long time user / first time chatter
[22:16] <don_> Hi MythbuntuGuest
[22:16] <don_> I'm a short time user and a 2nd time chatter.
[22:16] <MythbuntuGuest83> I just installed Mythbuntu 7.10 to upgrade my previous Ubuntu / Myth install, and have problems with /dev/dvb not existing.
[22:17] <MythbuntuGuest83> If I load the cx88-dvb module, I get an error - "FATAL: Error inserting cx88_dvb:  No such device.
[22:18] <MythbuntuGuest83> Basically - the device doesn't exisit, I have tried udeving around to make it happen, and no joy.
[22:18] <MythbuntuGuest83> Anyone have any ideas?
[22:19] <don_> I'm afraid that went way over my head. Sorry.
[22:20] <MythbuntuGuest83> No worries - It is really over my head to, but they can train monkeys to go to the moon - so surely I can figure this out with a bit of help.....
[22:21] <MythbuntuGuest83> I did neglect to say that I am trying to get a pcHDTV5500 working on /dev/dvb/frontend0 - via the cx88-dvb kernel module
[22:22] <don_> I hear that. I'm trying to get Mythbuntu to steam content to my ps3. I can see the Mythbuntu back end from the ps3 but there are no files present. Any idea how I get Mythbuntu to see files already on my machine?
[22:24] <MythbuntuGuest83> Can you see the files via the backend?
[22:26] <MythbuntuGuest83> I have all my media stored on a SAN, and I have to do SMB hard mounts on the server so that it can scan the folders
[22:27] <MythbuntuGuest83> Then they are availalable to clients
[22:27] <MythbuntuGuest51> Guest83 Do you record directly to your SAN?
[22:29] <MythbuntuGuest83> No - I record shows to the Server, and then use a cron job to move transcoded files to the SAN.  All my other media is put directly on the SAN however (mp3 / movies etc)
[22:29] <don_> I'm not sure if I can see the files from the back end. I am running the back end on an Ubuntu desktop. I can see the files from the desktop but I haven't figured out how to add them to the back end.
[22:30] <MythbuntuGuest51> I'm tinkering with the Idea of SAN for all my stuff, but that would put me in the same boat as you.
[22:31] <MythbuntuGuest51> MythTV .21 shoud have better support for this with Storage Groups I'm told
[22:31] <MythbuntuGuest83> You need to either put them in a folder that is scanned by the backend (/var/mythtv/videos or something like that)
[22:32] <don_> Can i get Mythbuntu to scan a folder other than /var/mythtv/videos?
[22:32] <MythbuntuGuest51> I was wondering if there was a way to move them, then update the pointer in the database to the new location
[22:33] <MythbuntuGuest51> I'm not thinking so, the way I understand it, it only knows about the recordings from the database entry
[22:34] <MythbuntuGuest83> You can tell it where your "video" folder is, or your "music
[22:34] <MythbuntuGuest83> " folder is etc.
[22:35] <MythbuntuGuest83> It is under setup.
[22:35] <MythbuntuGuest83> Otherwise you can create a hard link on the file system so that it will scan an alternate location.
[22:36] <MythbuntuGuest51> that gets back your having to manualy mount the share
[22:36] <MythbuntuGuest51> I added a line to my /etc/rc.local that remounts the share on startup
[22:37] <MythbuntuGuest51> my slave backends use it for transcodeing, comm flaging, etc
[22:37] <don_> my /var/lib/mythtv/ folder contains only a recordings folder. Do I need to add other folders?
[22:38] <MythbuntuGuest83> In setup - you can specify your video/music and picture folders as well, and they can all be different.
[22:38] <don_> Sorry to be such a noob, but how do I get to setup?
[22:38] <don_> Is it in the MCC?
[22:42] <MythbuntuGuest83> Give me a minute and I will look on my frontend
[22:43] <don_> There is a Launch MythTV Setup in the MCC under MythTV Configuration but I can't see anything about defining various folders.
[22:45] <MythbuntuGuest83> I am switching to MrYutz......
[22:46] <MrYutz> I just installed Mythbuntu 7.10 to upgrade my previous Ubuntu / Myth install, and have problems with /dev/dvb not existing for my pcHDTV 5500 card.
[22:47] <MrYutz> don_ under  the backend setup "general" section, you can choose what folder you recordings go into.  Otherwise each front end can be configured for the video / picture / music folder individually.
[22:47] <MrYutz> I have mine all set to point to the same location (each front end)
[22:47] <MrYutz> But now my server doesn't work (see above) and that is a whole different issue.
[22:48] <MrYutz> I think you just need to setup a samba share for the folders you want to share - and then let the PS3 connect to them - although I don't have one of those - so I can't say for sure what the best method is.
[22:50] <don_> Perhaps the method that I have been trying isn't going to work. The PS3 can read a UPnP server so I was hoping to have the PS3 read the UPnP back end. I don't actually have a Mythbuntu front end installed on my PS3. What do you think?
[23:09] <MrYutz> don_ if you are still around - I am not sure what the PS3 is capable of.  I just googled UPnP server, and realize I don't know much about it.
[23:10] <don_> Thanks a lot for the help MrYutz. I'll keep looking. I hope you get your issue sorted out.
[23:13] <MrYutz> I just installed Mythbuntu 7.10 to upgrade my previous Ubuntu / Myth install, and have problems with /dev/dvb not existing for my pcHDTV 5500 card.  I have tried to mannual modprobe the cx88-dvb driver, but it says:  "No such device".
[23:14] <MrYutz> The card is listed in dmesg (pcHDTV 5500 / type 47), but I cannot get the module to load with the 7.10 version of Mythbuntu.  It was working fine under 7.04.  Any ideas?


[10:03] <airurando> morning
[11:36] <girlinhiding> hi
[11:36] <ebel> hoya
[11:48] <BenChapman> afternoon
[11:53] <airurando> BenChapman still morning where I am.
[11:53] <BenChapman> airuando: it's still morning here too actually :P
[11:54] <airurando> ebel: I know we agreed on 3rd Weds for meetings but will 21 Dec 11 be too close to christmas?
[11:55] <airurando> perhaps 14 Dec 11 would be better on this occassion.
[12:00] <slashtommy> good afternoon
[12:04] <ebel> p'haps....
[12:06] <airurando> hi slashtommy
[12:25] <BenChapman> hi slashtommy :)
[12:36] <slashtommy> hello, friday afternoon and i'm providing support
[12:37] <ebel> oh noes!
[12:38] <slashtommy> aye, me hopes no more rockets interrupt us
[16:11] <airurando> I've dne the team reports for Sept and Oct.  Sept is looking particularly bare.
[16:38] <slashtommy> airurando: september didn't happen
[16:39] <airurando> sorry slashtommy. what do you mean?
[16:40] <airurando> the only entry I have in for Sept is the global jam
[16:40] <airurando> that did happen
[16:58] <airurando> slashtommy?
[17:05] <slashtommy> oh?
[22:51] <airurando> evening


[01:18] <poolie> losa ping, i'd like help qa'ing bug 855150
[01:18] <_mup_> Bug #855150: excessive translation import template mails (also poor phrasing) <mail> <qa-needstesting> <spam> <translations> <Launchpad itself:Fix Committed by mbp> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/855150 >
[01:18] <poolie> wgrant, lifeless, wallyworld, can you help me work out how to qa it at all?
[01:18] <poolie> i'm not sure manual qa would have a good tradeoff in this case
[01:19] <poolie> since there is a fairly good unit test, and the dependencies for it (branches, mail) are a little annoying on qas
[01:19] <wgrant> I was not a minute away from asking you about that.
[01:20] <wgrant> poolie: You can't do it with a manual upload?
[01:20] <hloeung> poolie: how can I help you?
[01:20] <wgrant> Without branches?
[01:20] <poolie> hloeung, i'm just trying to work that out
[01:21] <poolie> hloeung, can you tell me how i'd find out if the poimport cron job runs on qas?
[01:21] <poolie> wgrant, ok i'll upload a tarball and we'll see
[01:30] <hloeung> poolie: I've checked and it seems there isn't any poimport cron jobs for QAStaging
[01:31] <poolie> could you run rosetta-poimport for me please?
[01:32] <hloeung> poolie: sure!
[01:35] <hloeung> poolie: https://pastebin.canonical.com/53423/
[01:36] <wgrant> That looks like success.
[01:36] <wgrant> There's an email about the error, but nothing about the successes.
[01:37] <poolie> hloeung, also send-bug-notificatinos?
[01:40] <hloeung> poolie: done
[02:05] <poolie> wgrant, unless you can think of anything else i'm going to say that's qa-ok
[02:06] <wgrant> poolie: It looks fine to me.
[03:40] <wgrant> Lifelrss: Back yet?
[04:00] <StevenK> Does Y.Assert have a isNotNull ?
[04:01] <wgrant> Y.Lang.isValue?
[04:01] <wgrant> false for null/undefined, true for everything else.
[04:01] <wgrant> Except possibly NaN. That might be false as well.
[04:02] <wgrant> I forget.
[04:02] <StevenK> This is for a test, mind.
[04:02] <StevenK> Y.AssertTrue(Y.Lang.isValue()); ?
[04:03] <StevenK> wallyworld: ^ ?
[04:04] <wallyworld> StevenK: if you are checking that variable xxx is not null and not defined, that will work
[04:04] <wallyworld> but you don't need the isTrue
[04:04] <wallyworld> assrtTrue
[04:05] <wallyworld> or maybe you do
[04:05] <wallyworld> it's in a test, so yes i think
[04:06] <wallyworld> there is also isNumber, isBoolean etc
[04:06] <StevenK> It's a node
[04:07] <wallyworld> ah, right, then isValue i think is what you want
[04:07] <wallyworld> solves the == vs [04:11] <wgrant> wallyworld: Are you on top of your two QA items?
[04:11] <wallyworld> wgrant: nope, finishing off something else
[04:11] <nigelb> Hrm, I wonder why I havent got email from the landing last evening :|
[04:12] <wgrant> wallyworld: Any ETA on the QA? I'd like to deploy in the next hourish, before sending it off to the downtime hosts tonight.
[04:13]  * wallyworld sighs. i was hoping not to have to context switch :-(
[04:13]  * wallyworld looks at bugs again
[04:13] <wgrant> It doesn't look like it should take long :)
[04:14] <StevenK> wgrant: Which revision were you planning?
[04:14] <wgrant> 14041
[04:14] <wgrant> Send it out to ndt+librarian2 ASAP, then ftpmaster/ppa/librarian1 tonight if nothing blows up.
[04:15] <StevenK> Poor mizuho. It will be 150 revisions behind after that NDT.
[04:15] <wgrant> I'd been putting off librarian1 updates until it was HA, but that could still be weeks away, given what happened on Thursday :/
[04:16]  * StevenK wonders if there is any update with galapagos
[04:16] <wgrant> It's only been down for more than a month :)
[04:16] <wgrant> It makes https://devpad.canonical.com/~wgrant/production-revnos ugly :(
[04:16]  * wallyworld stabs qas. qa would be so much easier without the timeout errors
[04:17] <wgrant> wallyworld: Indeed :(
[04:17] <StevenK> wgrant: You should generate pretty HTML :-P
[04:18] <wgrant> StevenK: The script to generate it is, er, slightly unpleasant, due to the format of the input.
[04:18] <wgrant> carob:~wgrant/bin/parse-revnos.py, if you have a strong stomach.
[04:19] <StevenK> Yes, that is disgusting
[04:19] <StevenK> Perl!
[04:21] <StevenK> wgrant: Will you add forster in, or that can be done after?
[04:21] <wgrant> StevenK: forster/crowberry can be done without downtime later.
[04:21] <nigelb> StevenK: I dedicate this one to you :D https://twitter.com/#!/DEVOPS_BORAT/status/117613205576089601
[04:22] <wgrant> But since spm is not here, I shall not ask too much of hloeung :)
[04:22] <wgrant> Speaking of Perl.
[04:23] <hloeung> wgrant: I can try do those too if you like
[04:23] <wgrant> Best Practical appears to have the bzr colocated branch syntax, and are now importing even more RT code into LP :(
[04:23] <StevenK> "Source of Oracle is tell me latest version of PostgreSQL can be able download from mysql.com."
[04:23] <nigelb> lol
[04:23] <wgrant> hloeung: I know codehosting is a pain...
[04:26] <wgrant> Forgive me, Unity. I did not mean to offend you by closing Empathy.
[04:27] <StevenK> Hah
[04:27] <StevenK> I am disappoint. wc -l of my diff is 235
[04:29] <wallyworld> wgrant: done
[04:30] <wgrant> wallyworld: Thanks!
[04:46] <StevenK> Can haz review? https://code.launchpad.net/~stevenk/launchpad/private-bug-unsubscribe-confirm-2/+merge/77091
[04:46] <wallyworld> StevenK: i'll grab it
[04:48] <StevenK> Awesomeness.
[04:48] <StevenK> Or something.
[04:49] <StevenK> My two garbo populators are doing nothing on prod
[04:50] <StevenK> Continiously blocked by postgres or archivepublisher transactions
[04:50] <wgrant> Not continuously.
[04:50] <wgrant> But often.
[04:50] <wgrant> I'm not sure why they're making no progress.
[04:50] <StevenK> I'm trying to figure that out
[04:52] <lifeless> so for archivepublisher... we should fix that ;)
[04:52] <wgrant> We should.
[04:52] <wgrant> It's probably process-death-row.
[04:53] <wgrant> Which is now taking 1.5 hours instead of 8 minutes.
[04:53] <wgrant> And yes, there's a lot of stuff that should be fixed.
[04:53] <wgrant> But we cannot fix them.
[04:53] <wgrant> There are no resources to fix them.
[04:53] <lifeless> wgrant: i spoke with flacoste and sinzui about security / privacy and implementation
[04:54] <lifeless> wgrant: I can give you a summary if you haven't had one already; the next step is for one of us to nab mrevell and run some questions by him
[04:54] <wgrant> lifeless: I was about to ask if you wanted to talk about that. I discovered another larger issue overnight.
[04:54] <wgrant> Discussed it with sinzui in the standup, and we have no idea how to solve it.
[04:55] <wgrant> Apart from going back to 2004 and hitting people who suggest multitask bugs :)
[04:55] <wgrant> lifeless: I've not had a summary of the discussions you had, however.
[04:56] <StevenK> process-death-row would make sense
[04:56] <wgrant> It'll be far more obvious tomorrow.
[04:56] <StevenK> If it isn't p-d-r, it's backups, and if its not those two it's replication lag
[04:56] <wgrant> Because they'll be using custom DB users.
[05:01] <wgrant> lifeless: So, a summary would be nice :)
[05:03] <wallyworld> StevenK: done, with comments :-)
[05:04] <wgrant> StevenK: What if I try to unsubscribe the team that confers visibility?
[05:05] <lifeless> wgrant: skype ?
[05:44] <poolie> cinerama, https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/860273
[05:44] <_mup_> Bug #860273: private ppa 'technical details' incorrect for admins <affects-canonical-is> <confusing-ui> <p3a> <private> <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/860273 >
[07:29] <adeuring> good morning
[07:40] <huwshimi> mrevell: Can you think of a better title than "Customise visible information"
[07:43] <poolie> huwshimi, "show/hide"?
[07:43] <poolie> (8 letters)
[07:44] <poolie> lifeless, i'm going to write a braindump pre-lep for ssh oauth and git to get it off my brane
[07:44] <lifeless> sure
[07:46] <huwshimi> poolie: It's for choosing what bug info will appear in the list (the link opens a popup)
[07:47] <lifeless> edit result/report columns
[07:49] <huwshimi> lifeless: Without using the word columns?
[07:49] <huwshimi> I also don't want it to sound like it will be filtering anything
[07:49] <huwshimi> tricky
[07:49] <huwshimi> visible properties?
[07:50] <poolie> put a disclosure triangle next to the column headings?
[07:50] <lifeless> huwshimi: so we're editing more than columns ?
[07:50] <huwshimi> lifeless: This mockup doesn't have columns
[07:50] <lifeless> huwshimi: or we're avoiding the word column ?
[07:50] <lifeless> huwshimi: the search result doesn't ?
[07:52] <huwshimi> lifeless: it's just for a normal listing of bugs (except that the bugs are not being displayed in columns)
[07:52] <lifeless> fields ?
[07:52] <poolie> dare i ask how are they being displayed?
[07:52] <huwshimi> poolie: In a list
[07:52] <lifeless> views, properties, attributes, fields - easy to hand synonyms
[07:53] <poolie> mm
[07:53] <poolie> i guess what i'm getting at is, perhaps we can do without text and just show the things that are available
[07:53] <poolie> perhaps not
[07:54] <lifeless> huwshimi: this is the solution for arbitrary things being included yes ? I like poolies suggestion of showing a single row 'sample' and letting folk drag/drop to-from it
[07:55] <lifeless> or perhaps show a sample with greyed out fields for things not being shown and clicking on them enables that field
[07:59] <huwshimi> ok, that will have to do for today. Night all
[07:59] <lifeless> nn
[09:59] <lifeless> teal is sinzui, wally, wgrant, stevenk and <memory fail>
[09:59] <lifeless> ?
[09:59] <wgrant> lifeless: jcsackett
[09:59] <lifeless> thanks
[10:02]  * wallyworld wishes were were the purple team
[10:02] <wallyworld> we were
[10:09] <bigjools> wallyworld: could be arranged
[10:11] <poolie> itym maroon
[10:12] <nigelb> For a suffient bribe?
[10:12] <nigelb> *sufficient
[10:13] <nigelb> bigjools: YOu sound right out of Godfather there :P
[10:13] <lifeless> bigjools: python-oops-twisted 0.0.2 is in trunk, I'm going to cut a release in a minute
[10:13] <wallyworld> bigjools: ok, when you are out here i'll see what i can do
[10:13] <lifeless> bigjools: I couldn't reproduce that wtf thing, so I've asked for you to gather some info
[10:14] <bigjools> ok
[10:14] <lifeless> bigjools: it may be something like 'something somewhere using cStringIO
[10:14] <bigjools> I'll reproduce
[10:14] <lifeless> bigjools: I also added support for filtered oopses
[10:14] <bigjools> cool
[10:15] <lifeless> bigjools: if its filtered it now won't call the fallback at all; if its not published it forwards the event unaltered.
[10:15] <bigjools> lifeless: generally I want both
[10:16] <jtv> stub: ReadOnlyLaunchpadDatabasePolicy is only for full-on read-only mode, right?  Wasn't there also some policy to get read-only transactions, but on the master store?
[10:17] <jtv> We need to get object modifications in buildd-master under control so we know when we're committing what.
[10:20] <lifeless> bigjools: is that endorsing my change or asking for something different ?
[10:21] <bigjools> lifeless: it sounds ok, if it's not you can be sure I'll let you know, or fix it :)
[10:21] <lifeless> \o/
[10:21] <lifeless> The filtering is so that if you e.g. ratelimit, the fallback doesn't end up not being ratelimited.
[10:21] <lifeless> the publishing is the case you identified yesterday
[10:22] <lifeless> tarball on pypi now
[10:22] <lifeless> bigjools: I need to chase a few other things; can you add it to the download cache yourself?
[10:23] <bigjools> lifeless: excellent, I can sure
[10:24] <stub> jtv: I don't recall a policy for only read-only transactions on the master store.
[10:24] <jtv> :(  There's @read_transaction, but that still gives you a regular transaction (it just aborts it).
[10:24] <jtv> (And actually it should probably abort even on failure)
[10:25] <stub> jtv: What are you trying to do? Might be best to write a context manager that does 'set transaction_read_only to true' (or whatever it is) if necessary and resets on exit.
[10:25] <jtv> Yeah.
[10:26] <jtv> I'm trying to make sure that builders and builds do not get modified except from specific, well-bracketed pieces of code.
[10:26] <stub> jtv: I think the only place we set transaction to read only mode is in the test harness so 'slave' connections fail writes.
[10:27] <jtv> Then I suppose I could try to promote whatever we have there to something production-usable.
[10:27] <stub> jtv: We can remove access to them entirely except via stored procedures?
[10:27] <jtv> That may be taking it a bit too far; the code does rely on having the ORM.
[10:28] <jtv> I'm not sure how far down into various class hierarchies the object changes go.
[10:28] <stub> jtv: So various db users need write access to the tables, but you want to ensure modifications only happen in certain code paths.
[10:29] <jtv> Yes, I think that's right.
[10:29] <jtv> The latter part is definitely right.
[10:29] <stub> The logic you are enforcing is too complex to do this in the Storm database classes? Or are you scared of people bypassing the ORM?
[10:30] <jtv> No, not particularly worried about people bypassing the ORM.  Just don't know how to do it in Storm.
[10:30] <stub> This *might* mean we need a service that is responsible for making the modifications, and everything else just gets SELECT access to the tables.
[10:30] <jtv> That may already be the case.  The immediate problem is that that single service is complex and twisted.
[10:31] <lifeless> jtv: properties?
[10:31] <stub> Yes, so maybe easiest and best in the long run to split it into bits.
[10:31] <lifeless> jtv: and/or validators?
[10:31] <bigjools> lifeless: oops_twisted is not installing
[10:31] <stub> We have examples for enforcing some stuff like this at the Storm level...
[10:31] <bigjools> error: Setup script exited with error: package directory './oops_twisted' does not exist
[10:31] <jtv> lifeless: that's approaching it from the wrong end.  The code is already there, and complex; I want to get a handle on what it's already doing.
[10:32] <bigjools> lifeless: and bootstrapping doesn't work on a new checkout so I can't debug
[10:32] <jtv> stub: right now it's too many small bits.  That's part of the problem, in a way.
[10:32] <lifeless> bigjools: wow thats one messed up tarball
[10:32] <jtv> So as the first step I want database changes explicit, and then I want to use that to make sure no unrelated changes go into the same transaction.
[10:32] <lifeless> bigjools: Have I mentioned my... disdain for setuptools?
[10:33] <bigjools> lifeless: :(
[10:34] <jtv> stub: although to achieve that, the transactions may well get chopped into smaller bits.  But first we need to be very sure that we understand their boundaries.
[10:34] <stub> Anyone know why we are emitting long poll specific events on object creation/deletion instead of general events any service can listen for?
[10:34] <lifeless> bigjools: new tarball up
[10:34] <bigjools> lifeless: 0.0.3?
[10:35] <lifeless> bigjools: 0.0.2
[10:35] <lifeless> bigjools: it had 0 downloads ;)
[10:35] <bigjools> lifeless: tut tut
[10:35] <bigjools> I downloaded it
[10:35] <lifeless> bigjools: EPIC SHRUG
[10:35] <wgrant> lifeless: You are the bane of packagers everywhere :)
[10:35] <bigjools> how will I know I have the fixed one?
[10:35] <lifeless> bigjools: specifically, because it was barfing on build, you can't have an egg for it, so it won't hit the failure mode of not updating for someone
[10:36] <lifeless> bigjools: if it was building brokenly, it would be different
[10:36] <bigjools> lifeless: fancy updating the lp code too? :)
[10:36] <lifeless> bigjools: not a code problem
[10:36] <bigjools> why is bootstrapping buggered?
[10:36] <lifeless> bigjools: bad MANIFEST file
[10:36] <lifeless> bigjools: so the 0.0.2 tarball file had no contents beyond setup.py
[10:37] <bigjools> lol
[10:37] <lifeless> README, PKG-INFO and an oops_wsgi directory.
[10:37] <lifeless> totally epically fucked
[10:37] <bigjools> BTW electrician in the house, I may lose connectivity
[10:37]  * stub wonders if Storm has a facility for putting a store into read only mode.
[10:37] <jtv> stub: blast.  I thought you were referring to knowledge of such a thing earlier.
[10:38] <wgrant> stub: If it did, would we have *_ro? :)
[10:38] <bigjools> gah Makefiles
[10:39] <wgrant> stub: Can't we just use SET TRANSACTUION READ ONLY?
[10:39] <wgrant> s/U//
[10:39] <stub> wgrant: We create all the _ro users such as their default transaction mode is read only
[10:39] <stub> So the test harness stuff is not applicable here
[10:40] <stub> But 'with read_only(store):' is little effort
[10:42] <stub> store.execute('show transaction_read_only').get_one()[0] for the current value, store.execute('set transaction_read_only = true') to set it...
[10:42] <jtv> I could extend the @read_transaction we have now, provided we only use it in fresh transations.
[10:43] <stub> jtv: if it aborts at the end, it would be a fail to use it for anything that wasn't a fresh transaction
[10:43] <stub> Unless it stacks or something
[10:43] <jtv> Exactly.
[10:44] <jtv> Stacking it could be risky given its retry behaviour.
[10:45] <lifeless> .
[10:46] <jtv> Librarian uses it in one place.  Unfortunately the code seems to have celebrate obscurity, but it doesn't look as if it has fresh connections.
[10:46] <bigjools> lifeless: still seeing both bugs with latest oops_twisted
[10:46] <jtv> It also uses twisted's deferToThread; allenap, one thing I wondered about there is that storms are not supposed to be thread-safe.  Is that all taken care of?
[10:46] <lifeless> bigjools: you've updated your versions.cfg ?
[10:46] <bigjools> lifeless: I am not using LP
[10:47] <bigjools> this is txlongpoll
[10:47] <lifeless> bigjools: sure, but its a buildout project too right ?
[10:47] <bigjools> lifeless: yeeesssss
[10:47] <lifeless> bigjools: so it has its own versions.cfg, right ?
[10:47] <bigjools> nope
[10:48] <bigjools> that's an LP thing
[10:48] <jtv> DigestSearchResource... another one of those ancient, under-documented classes that used to make our lives a living hell.  I'm sure it'll be clear to someone out there, but not to me.  :(
[10:48] <stub> jtv: stores are retrieved through zstorm, which hands out a store specific to the thread. You would have to go out of your way to hand your store to another thread.
[10:49] <bigjools> lifeless: I have rebuilt my entire egg from scratch, and oops_twisted 0.0.2 is in dists
[10:49] <bigjools> since I specified that in setup.py ;)
[10:49] <jtv> stub: does twisted keep a worker thread with a dedicated store for this kind of thing?
[10:50] <lifeless> meep. Well, you may want one ;)
[10:50] <lifeless> so that you don't get new releases of $stuff without warning.
[10:50] <lifeless> bigjools: anyhow, run buildout with -v or something and confirm that you have 0.0.2 in use. Or check your sys.path etc
[10:50] <lifeless> bigjools: you can specify versions in setup.py ?
[10:50] <stub> jtv: I don't know about twisted worker threads. I just know that when you request a store, you get a store for the current thread and not a store used by some other thread.
[10:50] <bigjools> Getting required 'oops-twisted>=0.0.2'
[10:50] <bigjools> lifeless: of course you can
[10:50] <lifeless> bigjools: anyhow, I believe you. So put a breakpoint in the 0.0.2 code and see what happes
[10:51] <jtv> stub: ah, so it's on-demand.  I think that means this is safe, thanks.
[10:51] <allenap> jtv: Each bit of code that is passed to deferToThread() needs to get its own store.
[10:51] <jtv> And does it?  :)
[10:51] <allenap> jtv: I don't know about the librarian...
[10:51] <jtv> Apparently it gets its own store on demand, so that sounds like it's alright.
[10:52] <lifeless> bigjools: in the 'if ids:' if block at the end of log.py
[10:52] <jtv> allenap: Yeah, never mind the librarian.  This bit of code is probably from the days when we thought that cryptic code was better because it was By And For Geeks(tm).
[10:52] <bigjools> ok, re-rinning
[10:52] <jtv> bigjools: lather, rin, repeat.
[10:53] <bigjools> jtv: FUGU
[10:53] <jtv> $ dict fugu
[10:53] <bigjools> jtv: like FUBU
[10:53] <lifeless> mmm noms
[10:53] <jtv>  fugu
[10:53] <jtv>        n : delicacy highly prized in Japan but highly dangerous
[10:53] <stub> Why are we emitting LongPoll specific events rather than generic events on Storm lifecycle that any process can subscribe to?
[10:53] <bigjools> allenap: ^
[10:54] <jtv> bigjools: thank you, that helps.  I think the other one was fgbg.
[10:55] <stub> Just wondering if there is a reason, or if services that listen for new rows to be created in the database are going to be listening for misnamed events
[10:55] <allenap> stub: I don't understand. The longpoll code subscribes to the generic events and then re-emits them via Rabbit.
[10:55] <stub> oh... I thought I saw us explicitly emitting LongPollSomething events on Storm object creation and deletion, rather than StormSomething events.
[10:56] <stub> Which might just be naming
[10:57] <bigjools> lifeless: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/697804/
[10:57] <jtv> stub: not taking the risk on @read_transaction; I can't be sure what games people play with it.  A "with" sounds good.  I'll also need one that gives a temporary exemption.
[10:58] <allenap> stub: There are subscription handlers for (Storm, IObject{Created,Modified,Deleted}Event) so far, so it does rely on code to explicitly emit those lifecycle events. We can add more subscription handlers for other events later, this just fits our needs so far and should fit a lot of other situations.
[10:58] <stub> jtv: I don't know the details of your problem, but a pair of context managers that can be nested would be nice and potentially useful elsewhere.
[10:59] <jtv> stub: yup.  By "would be nice" by the way I do not mean that I expect you to do it; I'll whip something up and if you're interested, let you know when I think it's in a reviewable shape.
[10:59] <stub> allenap: As long as we don't end up emitting 3 specific messages per row updates when 1 general one would do and can be routed with rabbit.
[11:01] <allenap> stub: That will be the case. By default no lifecycle events are emitted for Storm stuff; it needs to be done explicitly.
[11:01] <stub> cool
[11:02] <stub> Might be able to use this for real time karma updates...
[11:02] <allenap> Yeah :)
[11:03] <stub> Still needs the daily job if we want degradation though so not a major win unless we decide on a new design
[11:05] <stub> allenap: Originally I was thinking of hooking up zope.event, but I didn't know about the Storm event model back then and I don't think we gain anything by hooking zope.event up in addition.
[11:05] <stub> (Maybe Storm should be using zope.event :) )
[11:08] <stub> jtv: I'm happy to review it. It should be maybe 10 lines plus boilerplate?
[11:09] <jtv> stub: I'm more worried about design than I am about the code.  Who commits when.
[11:12] <stub> jtv: I worry that we spend too much time working around a flawed design rather than rewriting - some of this stuff has been a problem for years and most people are too scared to mess with it. I certainly don't know enough to know if the existing design can be rescued or needs to be replaced.
[11:12] <wgrant> stub: That comes up a lot nowadays...
[11:12] <wgrant> But buildd-manager was rewritten like 2 years ago.
[11:12] <jtv> My fingers ache to do it again, but realistically...
[11:13] <jtv> See the "read-only transactions" part as a way of getting a grip on what the existing design really does.
[11:13] <jtv> Once we have that under control, we'll have a much better idea of our options.
[11:14] <allenap> stub: This does rely on zope.event, but there are no automagically emitted events as Storm objects change state. Storm model instances do have EventSystem which can be used to track changes at a very fine-grained level, but I think piping those out over a message queue would be like a fire hose.
[11:14] <stub> allenap: Isn't that why we have this high performance messaging system ;-)
[11:15] <stub> It can handle a zajillion messages per whatsit!
[11:15] <allenap> stub: We have yet to see if it's high performance :)
[11:15] <stub> allenap: I also considered database triggers emitting events...
[11:15] <jtv> (In practice I hear it's often more like 0.6 zajillion per whatsit.)
[11:16] <allenap> stub: Oh, in that case, I think we should hook into sys.settrace().
[11:16] <stub> You win
[11:16] <stub> Unless I suggest.... ptrace!
[11:16] <allenap> Dammit!
[11:18] <jtv> On a sidenote, I see that raw_connect defaults to SERIALIZABLE.  I thought it was READ COMMITTED nowadays.  Will we go REPEATABLE READ with 9.1, or upgrade to the new SERIALIZABLE?
[11:19] <danilos> gmb, hi, got time for a short review? https://code.launchpad.net/~danilo/launchpad/bug-847485/+merge/77142
[11:20] <gmb> danilos: Hi, sure.
[11:20] <stub> wgrant was talking about serializable/read committed by default the other day. Scripts should be defaulting to read committed since they almost certainly won't handle serialization exceptions.
[11:20] <jtv> Yes, I thought we made them default to read committed some 3 or 4 years ago.  So surprising to see this in raw_connect.
[11:20] <stub> And one day I'll read the docs and learn what the difference between repeatable read and serializable is
[11:21] <lifeless> jtv: oh, 9.1 adds explicit repeatable read ?
[11:21] <wgrant> jtv: So, I've been far too deep in this stuff lately...
[11:21] <stub> jtv: Is raw connect what scripts use or what the appserver eventually relies on for its connection?
[11:21] <bigjools> lifeless: did you see my debugger results?
[11:21] <jtv> lifeless: sort of.  It's the new name for the existing "serializable."
[11:21] <lifeless> jtv: and there is a new serializable ?
[11:21] <lifeless> bigjools: no
[11:21] <wgrant> jtv: initZopeless, may it rest in peace, override the default to read_committed.
[11:21] <wgrant> s/override/overrode/
[11:22] <wgrant> jtv: All scripts called that, so scripts ended up read_committed.
[11:22] <stub> its more serializable than the old serializable I hear
[11:22] <jtv> lifeless: yes.  Turned out there was a purely optimistic implementation for true SQL serializability for MVCC databases.
[11:22] <wgrant> jtv: While the appserver didn't, so ended up with the default in the config file: serializable.
[11:22] <bigjools> lifeless: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/697804/
[11:22] <jtv> wgrant: thanks for explaining that.
[11:22] <bigjools> lifeless: the report dict has no "type" entry
[11:22] <wgrant> jtv: Scripts now override this explicitly.
[11:22] <jtv> I say "SQL serializable" because there's been great confusion over it.
[11:22] <wgrant> jtv: Rather than it being hidden in the default of one of initZopeless' arguments.
[11:23] <jtv> The standard describes two symptoms that you don't want in transaction isolation: "phantom reads" and, er, another thing.
[11:23] <jtv> One is basically "you've seen a row in this transaction, you read it again, and now it's changed."
[11:23] <lifeless> bigjools: ok, new bug :) - what does the original event have in it ? (first line of that function, print event)
[11:23] <jtv> The other is, if I recall correctly, rows not suddenly appearing in or disappearing from the results of your query.
[11:24] <jtv> SQL described the isolation levels in terms of the exclusion of these two symptoms, and said that neither can happen in SERIALIZABLE.
[11:24] <jtv> So that's what postgres implemented.
[11:24] <bigjools> lifeless: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/697815/
[11:24] <jtv> It didn't have the changing rows, so two of the lesser isolation levels (read uncommitted & repeatable read) were utterly meaningless in postgres.
[11:24] <jtv> Instead you always got one of the better isolation levels.
[11:25] <jtv> But then it turned out that what SQL said about phantom reads etc. in SERIALIZABLE was descriptive, not definitive.
[11:25] <bigjools> lifeless: different problem, *same* bug :)
[11:25] <stub> which is the sort of behavior ODBC encoded in its api (you get the isolation you requested or better)
[11:25] <jtv> The *definition* of SERIALIZABLE is that the result must be as if no two transactions overlapped in time.
[11:25] <lifeless> bigjools: same top level symptom agreed.
[11:26] <jtv> And so postgres 9.1 has an optimistic technique to guarantee serializability, at the cost of more serialization failures obviously.
[11:26] <lifeless> bigjools: what has me confused here though is how the type key is missing
[11:26] <jtv> But no new locks, which is incredibly cool in itself.
[11:27] <jtv> REPEATABLE READ in postgres actually guarantees more than it does in SQL, but it was the next step down for the old, dishonoured SERIALIZABLE implementation.
[11:27] <stub> At this point I have no idea if the appserver would benefit or suffer from the new isolation level. Scripts will remain with read committed by default.
[11:28] <lifeless> bigjools: you've got a tb_text and a time, which  means emit didn't crash
[11:28] <lifeless> bigjools: can you print config.on_create
[11:29] <stub> I suspect we need to instrument our transaction retry handling to see what sort of genuine overhead we get with the extra protection
[11:29] <jtv> Might be useful to know at any rate.
[11:29] <stub> Yup
[11:29] <bigjools> lifeless: what scope?
[11:29] <bigjools> it's not in that func
[11:29] <lifeless> bigjools: self.conf
[11:29] <lifeless> bah
[11:29] <jtv> FWIW the only paradoxes that the existing "serializable" leaves us open to involve cross-table consistency.
[11:29] <bigjools> ah
[11:29] <lifeless> self.config
[11:30] <bigjools> lifeless: you want the function or it's invocation?
[11:30] <bigjools> its
[11:30] <lifeless> its a list of functions, I hope
[11:30] <lifeless> self.config.on_create
[11:30] <bigjools> 2011-09-27 12:30:01+0100 [-] (Pdb) [<function attach_exc_info at 0x2ba5488>, <function attach_date at 0x2ba5410>, <function copy_key at 0x2ba5230>, <function copy_key at 0x2ba52a8>, <function copy_key at 0x2ba5320>]
[11:30] <lifeless> ok, so we need to look at whats going on with emit
[11:31] <lifeless> line 58
[11:31] <lifeless> it should branch into the 'if 'failure' in eventDict: block
[11:31] <lifeless> and before we call
[11:31] <lifeless> report = self.config.create(context)
[11:32] <lifeless> our context should have an exc_info key with a (type, value, tb) tuple in it
[11:32] <bigjools> lifeless: I think you need to re-create this locally
[11:33] <lifeless> bigjools: yeah, probably.
[11:33] <bigjools> it's not hard
[11:33] <lifeless> bigjools: I have tomorrow off
[11:33] <lifeless> bigjools: for baby stuff, but I'll see what I can do
[11:33] <bigjools> I'm in hospital later :p
[11:33] <lifeless> bigjools: can you shoot me a mail with 'do this you daft bugger and it should break for you' instructions ?
[11:33] <bigjools> yarp
[11:34] <lifeless> defensive programming says we should tolerate the type etc being missing
[11:34] <lifeless> and I'll do that
[11:34] <lifeless> but we also want good output, so we need to figure out whats up.
[11:34] <bigjools> lifeless: I'll put it on the bug
[11:34] <lifeless> bigjools: a new one please!
[11:34] <gmb> danilos: approved.
[11:34] <lifeless> bigjools: it really is a different issue, though its hitting the same area of code
[11:34] <bigjools> lifeless: you didn't close the old one, and I consider it still unfixed
[11:35] <lifeless> bigjools: there may be multiple root causes
[11:35] <bigjools> bugs are to report symtoms, not causes
[11:35] <lifeless> sure, and your symptoms have changed :)
[11:35] <bigjools> not at all, it crashes in exactly the same way AFAIAC
[11:36] <lifeless> bigjools: if you have no publisher, it shouldn't crash now
[11:36] <lifeless> bigjools: and I *know* you have a publisher here, because I can see the publisher assigned OOPS id
[11:36] <bigjools> the d o u b l e spaced log is still happening too
[11:36]  * bigjools caves in
[11:36] <lifeless> bigjools: sure, and that hopefully the repro instructions will let me see
[11:36] <bigjools> for a quiet life
[11:37] <lifeless> bigjools: try without --date-dir=... or whatever the option is - I bet it won't crash.
[11:37] <bigjools> lifeless: it isn't, correct
[11:38] <lifeless> so, this is a flip in your symptoms :)
[11:38] <lifeless> now with a publisher, its barfing, and thats because attach_exc_info isn't attaching the info for some really odd reason
[11:38] <lifeless> which I'll track down, and separately make it not crash if that happens.
[11:39] <bigjools> https://bugs.launchpad.net/python-oops-twisted/+bug/859545
[11:39] <_mup_> Bug #859545: Fallback code corrupts the output <python-oops-twisted:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/859545 >
[11:39] <lifeless> bigjools: gl with the op
[11:39] <bigjools> added it there
[11:39] <bigjools> lifeless: ta
[11:40] <lifeless> from pypi ?
[11:40] <lifeless> {from where should I grab the gg}
[11:41] <lifeless> bigjools: ^
[11:42] <bigjools> https://launchpad.net/txlongpoll
[11:42] <bigjools> not on pypi
[11:42] <bigjools> (yet)
[11:47] <lifeless> https://bugs.launchpad.net/python-oops-twisted/+bug/860490
[11:47] <_mup_> Bug #860490: oops reports with no type/value crash the fallback reporting code <python-oops-twisted:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/860490 >
[11:54] <lifeless> bigjools: http://pastebin.com/GrvVx1ZM is the direct fix (but we need to see why you aren't getting those values regardless)
[12:04] <jelmer> hmm, am I supposed to be able to upload to maverick-proposed if it is for a package in a package set that is in my permission set?
[12:11] <wgrant> jelmer: Remember that packagesets and their permissions are series-specific.
[12:13] <jelmer> wgrant: ah, that must be it
[12:13] <jelmer> wgrant: I figured I would've been added to the packageset in all active series but that doesn't appear to be the case
[12:14] <jelmer> and I could swear I uploaded to lucid-proposed earlier, but apparently not.
[12:23] <StevenK> nigelb: r14041 is now live everywhere, so your DB patch can land.
[12:26] <lifeless> adeuring: your wiki docs are confusing :)
[12:26] <lifeless> column1 > value1 AND column2 > value2 -> that would be wrong, and the implementation using tuples now doesn't it ?
[12:26] <adeuring> lifeless: any suggestions for improvements?
[12:26] <lifeless> (column1, column2) > (value1, value2)
[12:27] <adeuring> right
[12:33] <lifeless> adeuring: that was the only thing
[12:33] <lifeless> adeuring: nice stuff
[12:33] <adeuring> lifeless: thanks :)
[13:02] <deryck> Morning, everyone.
[13:05] <nigelb> StevenK: \o/ Thanks!
[13:05] <nigelb> StevenK: Do I propose an MP?
[13:57] <StevenK> nigelb: Yes, put up an MP for it.
[14:29] <wallyworld> sinzui: hi. this bug subscription thing is a bit of a mess. if you agree with my branch to stick it behind a feature flag as requested by rob, would you be able to push it to ec2 for me? i believe folk are keen to see it land asap but i'm quite tired now and need sleep.
[14:30] <sinzui> wallyworld, The bug looks to be invalid. I would not want to land any branch that make Lp lie to 99% of users
[14:31] <wallyworld> sinzui: np. i was following orders :-) i'll let you discuss it with rob, matthew etc.
[14:31] <sinzui> wallyworld, does you branch revert Lp to lie?
[14:32] <sinzui> wallyworld, your branch looks like it is changing flags, which is not what the bug talks about
[14:32] <wallyworld> i think they just wanted launchpad back to how it was 48 hours ago - the branch does tha by putting the new stuff behind a ff
[14:32] <wallyworld> sinzui: yes, i commented on the bug to change the description
[14:33] <sinzui> okay. I will review the branch an land it if I am satisfied that the correct behaviour is still in the code base
[14:33] <wallyworld> originally i was proposing a compromise or whatever, but then it was decided just to stick it all behind a ff just to revert lp
[14:33] <wallyworld> so that the ubuntu folks wouldn't get very upset
[14:35] <sinzui> wallyworld, I am approving your branch and will land it now
[14:35] <wallyworld> thanks! i'm frustrated somewhat by the confusion
[14:37] <wallyworld> but it seemed from irc that we needed to take this action quite urgently, hence i staryed up to catch you and get your +1 on it. we can discuss more tomorrow at the standup i guess
[15:18] <nigelb> StevenK: thanks! Will do
[16:37] <jcsackett> sinzui: have a few moments to mumble?
[16:39] <sinzui> yes
[17:02] <sinzui> jcsackett, 770213
[17:02] <sinzui> jcsackett, bug 770213
[17:02] <_mup_> Bug #770213: globalsearch's submit button has no value, thus is strangely represented for screen reader users as unnamed <trivial> <wai> <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/770213 >
[17:48] <nigelb> benji: hi
[17:50] <benji> nigelb: hi
[17:50] <nigelb> benji: I didn't get a success/failure email for yesterday's landing. Did something go wrong?
[17:51] <benji> nigelb: it may well have; I've had trouble lading things of late.  I'm doing another run on a different branch now; once I figure out the problem I'll re-run your branch.
[17:51] <nigelb> benji: cool, thanks!
[17:52] <benji> np
[18:03] <mtaylor> hey guys - bugs email interface - setting fix committed doesn't seem to work if the bug is attached to multiple projects
[18:03] <mtaylor> https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/854614
[18:03] <_mup_> Bug #854614: metadata service local-hostname is not fqdn <server-o-rs> <OpenStack Compute (nova):Fix Committed by smoser> <nova (Ubuntu):Fix Committed by smoser> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/854614 >
[18:04] <mtaylor> see the email from our gerrit, and then that the status did not update from the email
[18:15] <mtaylor> nevermind - jeblair found the affects feature (or already knew about it, he's smart like that)
[19:11] <sinzui> jcsackett, do you have pqm power now?
[19:20] <jcsackett> sinzui: alas, no. i tried several combinations of settings to no avail, and then realized it was getting on in the afternoon and i hadn't had lunch.
[20:00] <benji> jcsackett: what kind of pqm problem are you having?  I'm having issues with it too.
[20:00] <jcsackett> benji: pqm-submit is throwing an smtp error.
[20:01] <benji> hmm, so you're not using ec2 land?
[20:01] <jcsackett> benji: no, i have other problems with ec2 land. :-P
[20:02] <jcsackett> since some issues when i updated to oneiric i've been essentially unable to land. it's a bit frustrating.
[20:03] <jcsackett> sinzui has been helping me diagnose, but we have not yet solved the problems.
[20:03] <sinzui> jcsackett, maybe you should paste the error
[20:03] <sinzui> and maybe use canonical's pastebin
[20:07] <jcsackett> sinzui: https://pastebin.canonical.com/53486/
[20:07] <jcsackett> not terribly informative.
[20:08] <sinzui> jcsackett,  and you are using the same smtp_* rules as I have in my bazaar.conf?
[20:08] <jcsackett> sinzui: yup.
[20:09] <sinzui> do you have other directly matching rules?
[20:12] <jcsackett> you mean like via locations.conf?
[20:13] <jcsackett> i have some smtp_ stuff set there, but it's the same as in bazaar.conf
[20:13]  * jcsackett takes another look,
[20:15] <bac> abentley: i took care of that private project
[20:16] <abentley> bac: thanks!
[21:16] <lifeless> morning
[21:31] <abentley> lifeless: you know how we're upgrading all branches to 2a-based formats?  loom branches can't even be upgraded to other loom formats.
[21:33] <abentley> https://pastebin.canonical.com/53491/
[21:35] <lifeless> they used to be able to
[21:35] <lifeless> I don't know whats changed there, but I assume its a bzrlib core thing


[05:26] <mjg59> BenC: The dyntick options only seem to be set in -generic, not -386?
[05:27] <BenC> mjg59: -386 has always been considered a fallback kernel when we have new options like that
[05:28] <mjg59> Ok
[05:30] <theCore> BenC: just a quick question, is there a reason why you use 4 different git trees (one for each dist), instead of branches?
[03:01] <Keybuk> http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/jgarzik/libata-dev.git;a=commit;h=d9aca22cf443f5ed77d15a320abbab055ae4a976
[03:01] <Keybuk> ^ That's in git head now ... will that make it to a kernel upload soon? :p


[00:58] <jsestri2> how do you get at the bleeding edge packages?
[01:00] <rsk> change repo's ?
[01:03] <jsestri2> to which
[01:05] <rsk> i won't recomend you to upgrade then
[01:06] <jsestri2> alright i just wanted one package backported really, there's no way to do it manually?
[17:39] <tinin> Is there no #kubuntu+1 channel?
[17:41] <rsk> nope
[17:42] <Gnine> where's that alpha1 dl page
[17:43] <rsk> not out yet


[10:50] <hikiko> hello
[10:52]  * alan_g waves
[10:52] <hikiko> do you know if I need proposed or some other repos to have the latest miral/mirclient?
[10:55] <alan_g> hikiko: Mir 0.26.0 is in X+O and Z, as is Miral 1.1. There's a Mir 0.26.1 in a silo, but I don't see that you'd need it.
[11:01] <hikiko> alan_g, when I include mir_toolkit header files in chromium I get this error:
[11:01] <hikiko> In file included from /usr/include/mirclient/mir_toolkit/events/event.h:90:
[11:02] <hikiko> #include "mir_toolkit/mir_input_device_types.h"
[11:02] <hikiko> and apt-file search doesn't return anything
[11:02] <hikiko> I wonder what I am missing
[11:03] <hikiko> is this a bug or there's a lib I should have installed?
[11:04] <hikiko> locate also cant find this file
[11:04] <alan_g> that's in libmircore-dev.  What do you get from $ pkg-config --cflags mirclient
[11:04] <hikiko> $ pkg-config --cflags mirclient
[11:04] <hikiko> -pthread -I/usr/include/mirclient -I/usr/include/mircookie -I/usr/include/mircore
[11:05] <hikiko> that lib was missing :)
[11:05] <alan_g> Then /usr/include/mircore/mir_toolkit/mir_input_device_types.h ought to be there
[11:05] <hikiko> :s
[11:06] <hikiko> ok installing mircore-dev fixed that
[11:06] <hikiko> apt-file should return it though :/
[11:06] <alan_g> Hmm. $ apt depends libmirclient-dev doesn't list libmircore-dev - sounds like a bug
[11:07] <hikiko> yes, when I ran apt-get build-dep libmirclient-dev mircore-dev was not installed
[15:37] <alan_g> greyback_: up for review: https://code.launchpad.net/~alan-griffiths/miral/workspaces/+merge/316584
[15:37] <greyback_> alan_g: ack


[00:52] <qwebirc59750> Have upgraded from Mythbuntu 12.04 to 14.04. I notice that updates are much rarer than they used to be on 12.04 Is this normal?
[00:52] <tgm4883> qwebirc59750: which updates?
[00:53] <qwebirc59750> I used to get mythv updates from the repository several times a week and yes I have enabled the ppa
[00:53] <qwebirc59750> oops mythtv
[00:54] <tgm4883> qwebirc59750: you should get daily updates
[00:54] <tgm4883> qwebirc59750: you enabled the PPA AFTER upgrading to 14.04?
[00:54] <qwebirc59750> yes
[00:55] <tgm4883> odd
[00:55] <tgm4883> when was the last update you got?
[00:56] <qwebirc59750> I'm getting more ubuntu updates than mythtv. I think I had the 12.04 ppa enabled but then when I upgraded enabled 14.04 ppa but can't really remember
[00:58] <tgm4883> qwebirc59750: it's possible there are just less updates now
[00:59] <tgm4883> qwebirc59750: looking at https://github.com/MythTV/mythtv/commits/fixes/0.27  the last update to that branch was the 23rd
[00:59] <tgm4883> and that is the last build that is on the PPA as well
[00:59] <tgm4883> https://launchpad.net/~mythbuntu/+archive/ubuntu/0.27
[01:01] <qwebirc59750> Even the updates themselves are much smaller. I used to get a lot of mythtv updates but now there are not nearly as many. Maybe you're right a lot less
[15:52] <qwebirc32461> what is Frontend/backend?
[16:08] <tgm4883> qwebirc32461: one if for recording and doing all the work (backend), the other is for playing back media (frontend)
[23:15] <qwebirc84189> I am having a problem with the wake-up part or hibernation.  Did as suggested and change the save-settings to hardware, but ubuntu will change the script back.
[23:16] <qwebirc84189> So, the alarm will not work because the time was changed.


[00:16] <superm1> CyberKnet, i left you some comments earlier about uEFI
[00:16] <superm1> do you have some specific questions?
[00:18] <b0sf1> can't seem to get any input on it.
[00:19] <b0sf1> im using a stb, and just trying to stream s-video
[00:20] <CyberKnet> superm1: I must have missed them - I'll go back and look
[00:20] <CyberKnet> superm1: basically I never used uEFI before and wanted to make sure buying a uEFI-enabled motherboard for a dedicated front end wasn't going to bite me
[00:21] <CyberKnet> superm1: found your comments.
[00:21] <CyberKnet> superm1: Hmmm... well that is good news that they can run in legacy mode.
[00:22] <CyberKnet> does mythbuntu partition and format in GPT/uEFI compatible mode? i.e. I read that uEFI requires a ~100mb FAT32 partition for some reason and that it needs to be mounted as /boot/uefi or some such...
[02:33] <tgm4883> b0sf1, does it work outside of mythtv?
[06:38] <rstuart> Just installed mythbuntu 11.04, ran mythtv-setup.  It asks for my country (Australia) and lanugage (non displayed) then segfaults when I save.  Any hints?
[16:37] <techmik> i am so close to having mythtv running correctly...... i can watch my other recordings and they look and sound good, but recording and/or watching livetv is a bit jerky video and i finally went from no audio at all to tons of static audio.....
[16:38] <techmik> brb


[03:43] <UBUXUBU> why does kubuntu 14 04 not burn a dvd???
[03:44] <UBUXUBU> says i need to configure it and give permissions and such why would anyone make the OS this way
[03:44] <UBUXUBU> i use ubuntu all the time it just burns the disk anytime not configure it?
[03:44] <UBUXUBU> using k3b
[03:57] <UBUXUBU> does anyone here help people?
[04:06] <quocdai> hi
[04:06] <quocdai> can anyone help me
[04:06] <quocdai> a want to share desktop to connect from remote
[04:06] <quocdai> in Kubuntu 14.04
[04:27] <UBUXUBU> noone helps here i asked a question long time ago quocdai
[04:28] <UBUXUBU> 222 ppl no help
[04:50] <uinteladvanced> Hello!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[04:51] <uinteladvanced> Hows the IRC world?
[04:51] <uinteladvanced> I cant beleive it.   Like a blast from the past.
[04:52] <uinteladvanced> Chat rooms
[04:52] <uinteladvanced> Yeah,
[04:52] <uinteladvanced> Okay..
[04:52] <uinteladvanced> No?
[04:53] <uinteladvanced> Yes?
[04:53] <uinteladvanced> Linux?
[04:53] <crdpink> yes
[08:56] <lordievader> Good morning.
[10:19] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[12:32] <gropaga242> hello? anyone here?
[12:42] <soee> :)
[13:02] <Ruhk> Good morning.  Is there anything I should know before I do so? I read the basic install instructions but i wasnt sure if there were any known issues to avoid
[13:05] <BluesKaj> Ruhk, a vm on a vm ?
[13:05] <BluesKaj> what's your host OS?
[13:06] <Ruhk> my host os is windows 7. I wanted to run kubuntu in virtual pc
[13:08] <BluesKaj> using virtual box for windows ?
[13:09] <Ruhk> no, using windows virtual pc
[13:10] <Ruhk> its the ms version of virtual box
[13:12] <BluesKaj> I'm not familiar with that one , but virtual box for windows is recommended for running linux OSs on windows https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Downloads
[13:13] <Ruhk> ok, thank you for the information. I'll give that a read and come back if I have any problems. Much obliged!
[13:20] <MoonUnit`> i tend to run vmware player, had problems with usb in virtualbox.
[13:30] <Walex> MoonUnit`: both VMware player and VirtualBox are quite buggy or incovenient in my experience. Qemu/KVM and Xen lots more reliable
[13:32] <BluesKaj> Walex, buggy and inconvenient describes my experience with Qemu/KVM  :)
[13:33] <BluesKaj> <--not a fan of VMs anyway, still prefer to dual boot.. a little more inconvenient , but at least everything mostly works
[16:42] <OC39648> Okay, I need help with something.
[16:42] <OC39648> I'm trying to run a linux distro off a USB drive.
[16:43] <OC39648> My problem: USB isn't showing up in boot order
[16:43] <OC39648> I checked the BIOS things, and it's listed, and it says it's bootable, but won't let me add it to the list?
[16:43] <OC39648> .*\
[16:55] <skinux> How do we get Ctrl+PrintScreen to take a screenshot??
[16:58] <BluesKaj> OC39648, disable secure boot and make sure you use uefi rather than legacy
[16:58] <OC39648> Did both.
[17:01] <BluesKaj> OC39648, your usb  should be first in the boot sequence/order
[17:01] <OC39648> It isn't, because it's moved to the 'Don't include' section by default.
[18:29] <Taggnostr> hello, is this the right place where to ask questions about xmodmap?
[18:31] <bprompt> could try here or #ubuntu
[18:34] <Taggnostr> I.m trying to add some characters when I do alt_r+X, so I create a modmap file using xmodmap -pke > modmap and changed the 3rd entry for some of the keycodes, however when I try to use alt_r+X nothing happens
[18:34] <Taggnostr> I have keycode 108 = ISO_Level3_Shift NoSymbol ISO_Level3_Shift (this should be alt_r), and I also reloaded the file after changing the keycode values
[18:59] <BluesKaj> Taggnostr, you might get answer to such questions in ##linux
[19:00] <Taggnostr> BluesKaj, thanks, I'll try there
[20:39] <Guest50077> any one play with Kubuntu and KDE 5.0 yet?
[20:39] <lordievader> Guest50077: I have. In my opinion it is fancy but not ready for day to day use.
[20:40] <Guest50077> im temped to get out a laptop and check it out, but partly wanting to wait until its backed a little more...i remember how disapointed i was with 4.0 when it was first out
[20:41] <lordievader> Guest50077: You can allways try the plasma5 iso in a vm.
[20:43] <Guest50077> yea thats prob a smarter choice or just wait until Jan for 2nd beta :-)
[23:25] <zartoosh> HI I do not understand the same package haveing two different name: mailutils_2.99.98-1.1_amd64.deb   and   mailutils_1%3a2.99.98-1.1_amd64.deb. could some explain please? thanks
[23:32] <bprompt> older and newer version it seems to me :/, I'd think the 1%3a is a newer build
[23:42] <Dragnslicer> The %3a is :
[23:42] <Dragnslicer> I can't remember exactly what 1: is supposed to mean in a package name
[23:44] <Dragnslicer> apt-cache show mailutils says the version is 1:2.99.98-1.1


[20:11] <Scary_Guy> https://www.extremetech.com/computing/326200-western-digital-caught-bait-and-switching-customers-with-slow-ssds


[00:01] <TheMuso> t/c
[05:01] <pitti> Good morning
[06:20] <didrocks> good morning
[09:03] <Laney> heya
[09:05] <chrisccoulson> hi Laney, how are you?
[09:05] <Laney> mmm, good thank you chrisccoulson!
[09:06] <Laney> finished the first season of the killing over the weekend ;-)
[09:06] <Laney> you?
[09:11] <seb128> hey Laney, chrisccoulson, desktopers
[09:11] <seb128> happy new year!
[09:12] <didrocks> hey Laney, chrisccoulson, seb128!
[09:13] <didrocks> happy new year seb128 :)
[09:13] <didrocks> how was your week-end Laney, chrisccoulson?
[09:13] <chrisccoulson> hey seb128, didrocks
[09:13] <chrisccoulson> happy new year seb128!
[09:13] <Laney> hey
[09:13] <Laney> seb128: good holidays?
[09:14] <seb128> Laney, excellent ones thanks! you?
[09:14] <Laney> yes, quite nice!
[09:15] <Laney> pretty cold on the top of snowdon on new years day https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/207748_10100602832248138_684192428_n.jpg :O
[09:40]  * Laney prods tkamppeter__ with bug #1096281
[09:40] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1096281 in cups (Ubuntu) "package libcups2 1.6.1-0ubuntu13 failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite '/etc/default/cups', which is also in package cups 1.6.1-0ubuntu13" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1096281
[09:40] <Laney> :>
[10:18] <pitti> bonjour seb128, bonne année!
[10:18] <pitti> seb128: as-tu eu des bonnes vacances?
[10:18] <seb128> pitti, salut, bonne année !
[10:18] <seb128> pitti, oui, très bonnes, et toi ?
[10:19] <pitti> oui, was nice to be back in Dresden to meet family and friends
[10:20] <seb128> did you get snow there?
[10:20] <seb128> or did you also get a not-so-wintery weather?
[10:39] <pitti> seb128: no, it was way too warm; up to 15 degrees, usually 6 to 10
[10:39] <pitti> seb128: we went to a christmas fair at http://www.festung-koenigstein.de/, where there was still some remaining snow on Dec 23
[10:40] <pitti> but then it all went away
[10:56] <seb128> pitti, same here, very weird winter
[11:01] <mlankhorst> oui, bonjour
[11:03] <Laney> hey mlankhorst, hoe gaat het?
[11:05] <mlankhorst> redelijk goed, met jou?
[11:08] <Laney> uitstekend, dank u. ontspannen :-)
[11:08]  * Laney screams GROLSCH and runs off to hide
[11:08] <Chipaca> hi guys. unity isn't starting for me, and if I start it from console it complains (“LLVM ERROR: Program used external function '' which could not be resolved!”). Halp?
[11:09]  * Chipaca reads somebody using the u-form on irc for the first time
[11:09] <mlankhorst> ah, so you found out about the secret tradition of the dutch screaming random beer names and running off, excellent
[11:11] <seb128> Chipaca, hey, not sure what's the issue is but it seems like your video card doesn't do 3d and it's trying to fallback to llvm rendering and hits and issue there ... maybe try asking on #ubuntu-x or #ubuntu-devel, it's a bit out of the desktop scope
[11:11] <Chipaca> seb128: fwiw it (unity) runs ok on a different user, which is why i'm asking here
[11:12] <Chipaca> note "runs ok" but still under llvm, which is a different question (why on earth?)
[11:12]  * Chipaca asks in ubuntu-x anyways
[11:22] <Sweetshark> seb128, didrocks, robert_ancell: may I humbly ask for you to add an endorsement to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BjoernMichaelsen/DeveloperApplication please?
[11:22] <seb128> Sweetshark, hey, happy new year! will do
[11:23] <didrocks> hey, happy new year Sweetshark! Sure, will do :)
[11:23] <Sweetshark> seb128, didrocks: happy new year everyone!
[11:24] <pitti> hey Sweetshark, gesundes Neues!
[11:27] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, starting to think that starting the day with 4 mugs of coffee was not such a great idea
[11:28] <chrisccoulson> infinity, any idea about https://launchpadlibrarian.net/127705642/buildlog_ubuntu-quantal-armel.firefox_18.0%2Bbuild1-0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz ? ;)
[11:33] <pitti> seb128: do you think we should enable apport crash reports to LP again, or rather use errors.u.c.?
[11:34] <seb128> pitti, did we get a way to ask for extra details on some bugs through e.u.c/whoopsie yet?
[11:34] <pitti> no, not yet
[11:34] <xnox> pitti: is that somehow related to apport no longer offering to open lp bug? /me got hit by this when users couldn't file an lp bug against ubiquity with all the logs collected.
[11:34] <seb128> well, that's just my opinion but I would keep reports to lp until we do
[11:34]  * xnox wants ubuntu-bug --really-file-to-lp
[11:35] <pitti> xnox: apport-bug pkgname should open an LP bug
[11:35] <pitti> seb128: right; but a few weeks ago you said "not now, before the holidays"
[11:35] <pitti> seb128: I wanted to confirm that now is a good time :)
[11:35] <xnox> pitti: ok. I'll try this in a sec in the livecd. Maybe it was user error on the other end of the conversation.
[11:36] <seb128> pitti, +1 to re-enable it, everybody should be back from holidays
[11:36] <pitti> xnox: you can locally change your /etc/apport/crashdb.conf
[11:36] <pitti> xnox: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu/raring/apport/ubuntu/revision/2144
[11:37] <pitti> seb128: next question, what's the plan wrt. glib 2.35.x?
[11:38] <seb128> pitti, I'm not up-to-date with what happened in GNOME during the holidays but plan was to get it uploaded in january and that still stands afaik
[11:39] <pitti> seb128: ok, perfect; thanks
[11:39] <seb128> pitti, I will start looking at that once I'm done with the post-holidays catching up
[11:39] <seb128> pitti, yw
[11:40] <seb128> pitti, if you or Laney want to have a try at the update please do, I'm just back today and I've quite some backlog and I'm travelling next week so I'm unsure if I will manage to squeeze that in-between
[11:41] <Laney> sure, i can look maybe on wednesday
[11:42] <seb128> Laney, thanks
[11:42] <mitya57> hi pitti, do you have any plans for testing gnome-keyring/libsecret stuff?
[11:42] <seb128> Laney, there is no hurry in any case
[11:42] <Laney> yeah
[11:42] <mitya57> if you are interested in that, it would be good to have a secret service template in python-dbusmock
[11:43] <pitti> seb128: ok, so now it's not a "we want to hold it back" blocker any more, just manpower?
[11:43] <mitya57> probably based on http://git.gnome.org/browse/libsecret/tree/libsecret/tests
[11:43] <seb128> pitti, right
[11:43] <pitti> mitya57: I don't currently have a WI for adding libsecret tests; I thought it already had quite a number of tests
[11:43] <Laney> there's https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=687659 which might have some impact
[11:43] <ubot2> Gnome bug 687659 in gobject "drop support for adding interfaces after class_init" [Normal,Reopened]
[11:43] <pitti> right, those
[11:44] <pitti> Laney: yeah, but that's rather a reason to land it early
[11:44] <Laney> quite
[11:44] <pitti> Laney: but it seems it's not that bad in practice, so far the only violation of that was in pygobject
[11:44] <Laney> is that fixed already?
[11:44] <pitti> mitya57: oh, you mean testing consumers of libsecret
[11:44] <Laney> i'm guessing so
[11:44] <pitti> Laney: yes, I fixed it two months ago
[11:45] <pitti> (it's in raring)
[11:45] <Laney> ok
[11:45] <mitya57> pitti: my personal interest is testing my python-secretstorage module
[11:45] <Laney> and the last comment on that bug about gjs
[11:45] <mitya57> pitti: ok, if you are not interested in that, I may try to write that template myself :)
[11:46] <Laney> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=688214 possibly fixes that
[11:46] <ubot2> Gnome bug 688214 in general "Don't use g_type_add_interface_static() dynamically" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
[11:46] <pitti> mitya57: oh, "not planned" != "not interested", it's mainly a capacity issue :)
[11:46] <mitya57> the same here (capacity issue) :)
[11:46] <pitti> mitya57: I mostly misunderstood what you asked; so you want/need a standard mock for keyring to test things like e-d-s or seahorse?
[11:47] <mitya57> pitti: yes, I need something that mimics secret service daemon behaviour
[11:49] <mitya57> pitti: btw I'm slowly adding dep-8 tests to various python modules: yesterday Piotr finally uploaded my pygments tests, next on my list are python3-defaults and nose
[11:50] <pitti> oh, great!
[11:50] <pitti> I saw a few on https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Raring/view/AutoPkgTest/ already
[11:50] <pitti> unfortunately numpy fails on amd64
[11:51] <mitya57> numpy was not mine
[11:51] <mitya57> is there a bug for that failure somewhere?
[11:52] <Laney> I wish jenkins would present its artifacts with the correct content-type
[11:53] <pitti> mitya57: I didn't file one yet, no; apparently it started failing over the holidays
[11:54] <mitya57> "last success: unknown" — it was always failing
[11:56] <Sweetshark> seb128, didrocks: Oh, if you want to add endorsements to the application, please do today as the DMB meeting is at 1900UTC.
[12:03] <didrocks> Sweetshark: oh, it will be quite short, but yeah, will try to do it after lunch break
[12:06] <Sweetshark> didrocks: np, just having more voices helps.
[12:07] <didrocks> sure :)
[12:30] <cyphermox> good morning!
[12:32] <didrocks> hey cyphermox!
[12:32] <didrocks> had a good week-end?
[12:34] <cyphermox> yup yup
[12:34] <cyphermox> and you?
[12:34] <didrocks> was good, despite the bad weather :)
[12:35] <cyphermox> great
[12:37] <didrocks> time for some exercice, will be back later :)
[12:37] <chrisccoulson> seb128, did you have a good holiday then? sorry, been busy this morning (firefox release week) ;)
[12:46] <seb128> chrisccoulson, hey, I had excellent holidays thanks! what about you?
[12:46] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, it turned out ok, despite a bad start ;)
[12:47] <chrisccoulson> (flu, and then our refrigerator died a couple of days before christmas)
[12:47] <seb128> because of the cold/flu you got?
[12:47] <seb128> oh
[12:47] <chrisccoulson> we managed to salvage the christmas food by filling it with ice, and got a replacement on christmas eve, which was lucky :)
[12:47] <seb128> good
[12:49] <xnox> chrisccoulson: sounds about similar to my whole family this christmas driving the last mile to the petrol station on the highway with fuel indicator saying we only have 4 miles of petrol left.
[12:49] <xnox> we got a slightly more lucky escape.
[12:50] <chrisccoulson> heh, that's brave :)
[12:50] <chrisccoulson> i don't think i'd trust my fuel gauge that much ;)
[12:50] <xnox> we got carried away, forgot that we need to fill up & made a small 1h detour to stop by a skiing slope.
[12:51] <xnox> yeah, we were already thinking we will have to collectively push the car through snow to the petrol station.
[13:58]  * Laney is going to upload a parallel installable telepathy-farstream-0.4 so that we can sync 0.6 and move empathy to gstreamer 1.0
[13:58] <Laney> (if the tests pan out)
[13:59] <kenvandine> Laney, yay!
[14:00] <Laney> after lunch ;-)
[14:00] <Laney> brb
[14:01] <seb128> kenvandine, hey, happy new year!
[14:02] <kenvandine> hey seb128
[14:02] <kenvandine> happy new year!
[14:02] <kenvandine> seb128, have a good holiday?
[14:02] <seb128> kenvandine, excellent, thanks
[14:02] <seb128> kenvandine, what about you?
[14:03] <kenvandine> yup!
[14:03] <kenvandine> very nice
[14:03] <kenvandine> long... :-D
[14:03] <seb128> did you manage to stay away from computers?
[14:03] <kenvandine> i did... even avoid email
[14:03] <kenvandine> for a whole week after we got back from the cruise
[14:04] <kenvandine> the cruise was a good way to get forced offline... easier to stay off than it is to go offline :)
[14:04] <seb128> ;-)
[14:04] <jcastro> wow, kenvandine is here!
[14:04] <seb128> it feels weird getting back to "normal" flow :p
[14:05] <kenvandine> hey jcastro!
[14:05] <jcastro> it feels weird seeing everyone around
[14:05] <kenvandine> hehe
[14:05] <kenvandine> indeed
[14:05] <seb128> I managed to not read email or anything for almost 3 weeks
[14:05] <kenvandine> jcastro, i was here last week... :)
[14:05] <ogra_> slackers ... you were supposed to play a lot of steam games during the holidays, not stay off !!!
[14:05] <kenvandine> ogra_, haha :)
[14:05] <seb128> the ubuntu phone news/videos are pretty exiting
[14:05] <seb128> exciting
[14:05] <kenvandine> indeed
[14:05] <jcastro> I spent waaay too much money on steam, hah
[14:05] <kenvandine> i am looking forward to the ces coverage this week
[14:05] <seb128> jcastro, ogra_: hey, had good holidays? happy new year!
[14:06] <ogra_> yeah, sick cat towards the end that didnt make it so noce, but she's fine again now
[14:06] <ogra_> *nice
[14:06] <ogra_> and as jorge i spent too much money for games ;)
[14:08] <seb128> what games did you guys play?
[14:08] <jcastro> I bought every linux one
[14:08] <seb128> I'm not sure my intel card is good enough to play steam games
[14:08] <jcastro> and then ended up resurrecting an old windows box to play more.
[14:08] <seb128> I tend to play on the ps3 nowadays rather
[14:08] <ogra_> lol
[14:09] <jcastro> seb128: yeah, a bunch of people I know had that problem, the work linux machine was for work, now that's for play everyone wants new hardware.
[14:09] <ogra_> jcastro, i think that somewhat defeats the purpose
[14:09]  * ogra_ bought like 10 games, havent finished a single one yet
[14:09] <jcastro> ogra_: I helped prime the economics, once they have more strategy games I'll be all set.
[14:09] <kenvandine> jcastro, wow...
[14:10] <kenvandine> isn't there like 41 now ?
[14:10]  * ogra_ wants more of the blockbusters ported
[14:10] <jcastro> they are smart, they put like everything on sale
[14:19] <mlankhorst> I could probably justify getting a nice shiny expensive kepler though :P
[14:19] <mlankhorst> but then no nouveau dev would care for fermi any more
[14:27] <ogra_> mlankhorst, my radeon 6990 thats 30% cheaper than my GTX660 totally smarts out the nvidia
[14:27] <mlankhorst> aye :P
[14:27] <mlankhorst> I have some hacks to make things a lot faster
[14:27] <ogra_> in gaming at least ... sadly multiscreen support in fglrx is a lot worse than twinview
[14:27] <mlankhorst> oh you use fglrx? come on
[14:28] <ogra_> for gaming ?
[14:28] <ogra_> sure i do
[14:28] <mlankhorst> r600 vs nouveau is a lot more interesting, but with a few fixes tf2 can go a lot faster >:D
[14:28] <ogra_> you actually play steam stuff under nouveau ?
[14:29] <mlankhorst> sure
[14:29] <mlankhorst> 2560x1440 and it's near 60 fps, so why not?
[14:29]  * ogra_ wonders if that would cope with 5760x1920
[14:29] <mlankhorst> disclaimer, I use a crazy hack to reclock memory
[14:29] <ogra_> ha!
[14:30] <mlankhorst> c: core 700MHz shader 1401MHz memory 135MHz voltage 988mV
[14:30] <mlankhorst> not doable!
[14:30] <ogra_> can you still hear game sounds through the fan noise ?
[14:30] <mlankhorst> c: core 700MHz shader 1401MHz memory 1848MHz voltage 988mV
[14:31] <mlankhorst> magic!
[14:31] <mlankhorst> sure can
[15:01] <dobey> ogra_: what kind of setup gives you that resolution?
[15:03] <ogra_> dobey, triplehead ... 3x full HD
[15:03] <ogra_> oh, its 5760x1080, sorry, typ
[15:03] <ogra_> o
[15:03] <dobey> ah ok
[15:18] <czajkowski> dobey: before christmas you were looking for SD cards did you get them ?
[15:19] <tkamppeter> pitti, hi
[15:19] <pitti> hello tkamppeter
[15:20] <tkamppeter> pitti, I have a problem with the CUPS package. As you know I have split cups in cups and cups-daemon and needed to add --name=cups to the dh_installinit call.
[15:23] <dobey> czajkowski: no. i haven't found any in the US for cheap yet.
[15:24] <tkamppeter> pitti, I have completely overlooked that dh_installinit also treats /etc/default/cups and therefore I did not rename debian/cups.default, ending up with /etc/default/cups being taken by the first binary package in the list, which is libcups2. Thiis accidental movement of a file breaks the update path, as usually first the new package witrh the file is installed and then the old package with the file is removed.
[15:24] <dobey> czajkowski: and i haven't designed the thing i had an idea to use them for yet either. :)
[15:24] <dobey> czajkowski: thanks though
[15:24] <tkamppeter> pitti, now I am completely stuck and do no know how to get it fixed.
[15:26] <pitti> tkamppeter: default files work just like init files -- i. e. if you name it debian/cups-daemon.cups.default, dh_installinit --name=cups will pick it up along with the .init file
[15:26] <tkamppeter> pitti, first, I will need to rename debian/cups.default to debian/cups-daemon.cups.default to assign /etc/default cups to cups-daemon.
[15:26] <pitti> tkamppeter: you'll need a debian/libcups2.maintscripts for removing the bad conffile on upgrade, though
[15:27] <tkamppeter> pitti, what does the debian/libcups2.maintscripts have to contain? Do I also need debian/cups.maintscripts as originally /etc/default/cups was in cups and now it should go to cups-daemon?
[15:28] <pitti> tkamppeter: sorry, debian/libcups2.maintscript, see man dh_installdeb; it needs to have something like "rm_conffile /etc/default/cups 1.6.1-0ubuntu15~"
[15:29] <pitti> tkamppeter: right, you'll need it in cups as well
[15:29] <pitti> tkamppeter: although the "accidental" movement seems to have been done automatically by dpkg; it didn't complain, anyway
[15:30] <pitti> but "dpkg -s cups" shows a ton of obsolete conffiles
[15:30] <pitti> presumably they all moved to cups-daemon
[15:42] <tkamppeter> pitti, if a conffile modified by the user exists, and it gets moved from one binary package to another, and then one adds the debian/<oldpackage>.maintscript, does the conffile get preserved or does it get replaced by the default conffile of the new package?
[15:45] <pitti> tkamppeter: rm_conffile will remove unchanged ones and keep changed ones
[15:45] <pitti> tkamppeter: ah, actually not, it renames it to .bak; please see dpkg-maintscript-helper
[15:46] <pitti> tkamppeter: probably better to use mv_conffile, but I haven't tested this for moving between packages
[15:49] <tkamppeter> pitti, do I also need Breaks/Conflicts/Replaces somewhere?
[15:50] <pitti> tkamppeter: I'm never fully sure about that for conffiles, as they are magic; but it can't hurt to add a Replaces: at least
[15:54] <tkamppeter> pitti, how long has the .maintscripts file to stay in the package?
[15:57] <pitti> tkamppeter: until after the next LTS (and Debian) release
[16:20] <tkamppeter> pitti, thanks, I will try it.
[16:29] <pitti> bonne nuit
[16:33] <Sweetshark> Laney: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda says DMB meeting today, http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars/ says DMB meeting next week.
[16:34] <mlankhorst> the solution is more meetings!
[16:35] <Sweetshark> mlankhorst: and adding a layer of abstraction. they always help.
[16:35] <Sweetshark> (except when the goal is 'reduce abstraction layers')
[16:36] <mlankhorst> even then it helps!
[16:36] <mlankhorst> you're simply not thinking abstract enough
[16:36] <mlankhorst> some abstractions for abstraction layers are needed in that case
[16:37] <Sweetshark> mlankhorst: true. one can surely use metaprogramming: a metaclass abstractionlayer is needed.
[16:37] <Laney> today is right
[17:26] <infinity> chrisccoulson: Yeah, they've regressed to producing armv7 assembly unconditionally again, and quantal/armel was armv5.
[17:27] <infinity> chrisccoulson: If you check the debdiff between 17 and 18 and search for the offending file, you can see they completely refactored all of that, and failed to refactor the cpu level detection bits.


[18:56] <olly> morning
[19:01] <ibeardslee> morning
[19:29] <mwhudson> morning
[19:36] <ajmitch> morning
[20:24] <chilts> morning
[20:58] <kcj> Morning.
[22:24] <olly> ibeardslee: does catalyst still have a public debian mirror?
[22:25] <olly> http://catalyst.net.nz/services says "Catalyst maintains local mirrors of these distributions.", but doesn't seem to say where to find them
[22:26] <olly> http://wiki.wlug.org.nz/NewZealandLinuxMirrors suggests it was at http://www.nz.kernel.org/pub/debian/ but that doesn't work now
[22:27] <ibeardslee> olly not sure they are overly public
[22:27] <ibeardslee> debian.catalyst.net.nz ?
[22:28] <olly> hmm, so the chances of them getting registered for http.debian.net are quite low then I guess...
[22:28] <olly> it's kind of sad that its best option is in .au currently
[22:28] <ajmitch> ibeardslee: at least it's not 6 months behind like some mirrors have been at times
[22:29] <olly> ftp.nz.debian.org uses antiquated mirroring scripts, so http.d.n doesn't use it
[22:29]  * ajmitch mirrors from http.us.debian.org nightly with debmirror at home
[22:30] <ajmitch> easier to do that than to wait around when I do want to install something
[22:32] <olly> not sure my always on machine has the space
[22:32] <olly> and that doesn't help when I'm not at home
[22:33] <olly> http.debian.net is nice because it picks a fairly local mirror that is up to date and likely to actually work, and will update its choice automatically if I'm overseas
[22:34] <ajmitch> no it doesn't,  I'm just saying I had to fall back to http.us.d.o because of a lack of reliable debian mirrors in NZ :)
[22:34] <olly> i should probably focus on trying to get ftp.nz.debian.org in a state where it can be used
[22:34] <olly> ISTR finding it hard to work out who to contact when I looked before


 But oh well:(
[14:15] <jhodapp> smartboyhw, what's stopping you from learning about Unity and C++?
[14:15] <smartboyhw> jhodapp, homework? tests?;P
[14:15] <jhodapp> smartboyhw, so take a C++ class :)
[14:16] <smartboyhw> jhodapp, well I would love to... I know the basics but not the deepest ones:P
[14:17] <jhodapp> that's good, and just try and work it into your schedule if you can (learning on the side)
[14:17] <smartboyhw> jhodapp, one said thing is that the meetings doesn't fit the timezones of mine:(
[14:17] <jhodapp> what timezone are you?
[14:19] <smartboyhw> jhodapp, by the time you guys have the meeting I am asleep (3:00 AM)
[14:19] <jhodapp> wow, ok
[15:04] <tgm4883> smartboyhw, east asia/australia?
[15:04] <smartboyhw> tgm4883, east asia (Hong Kong)
[15:04] <smartboyhw> 15:00 UTC is best for me
[15:06] <tgm4883> jhodapp, can I do QML/QT stuff with python?
[15:06]  * tgm4883 knows nothing about QML/QT
[15:06] <jhodapp> tgm4883, I'm sure there's a Python Qt, my guess is you can probably do it, but I don't know for sure
[15:06] <jhodapp> tgm4883, why not learn some basics about C++?
[15:06] <tgm4883> smartboyhw, IDK if the meeting room is available from that time. Could pint mhal l119 about it
[15:07] <tgm4883> jhodapp, compiling is for neadrethals ;)
[15:07] <tgm4883> j/k
[15:07] <jhodapp> lol
[15:07] <jhodapp> uh huh
[15:07] <tgm4883> I have enough trouble with the python stuff I do
[15:07] <jhodapp> Neanderthals that like their code to execute quickly :)
[15:08] <tgm4883> I think I looked at C++ once
[15:09] <tgm4883> jhodapp, can I do unity scopes in C++?
[15:09] <jhodapp> yeah
[15:10] <jhodapp> it'd be using gobject/glib
[15:10] <jhodapp> so C/C++
[15:11] <tgm4883> hmm, I was thinking of doing a netflix scope, but it seems they are shutting down their public API :(
[15:11] <jhodapp> for real? where'd you see that?
[15:11] <jhodapp> that doesn't seem right
[15:12] <jhodapp> or are they going to a paid-only API?
[15:12] <tgm4883> http://developer.netflix.com/
[15:12] <tgm4883> and http://developer.netflix.com/blog/read/Changes_to_the_Public_API_Program
[15:12] <tgm4883> they are no longer issueing new API keys and have shut down other parts of the developer program
[15:13] <smartboyhw> ....
[15:13] <tgm4883> While they don't say they are shutting down the public API completely, I don't think it will be long for that
[15:15] <jhodapp> wow!
[15:15] <jhodapp> that sucks
[15:15] <tgm4883> yea
[15:16] <tgm4883> We can hope that they are doing that in preparation of opening it up more, but I doubt it
[15:17] <jhodapp> indeed
[17:43] <tgm4883> jhodapp, so any recommended guides/docs to get started on C++?
[17:44] <jhodapp> no guides, but the c++ faq  and c++ faq lite are excellent
[17:44] <jhodapp> there's tons of guides out there though


[01:23] <derekS> can anyone help me with a procmail recipe? i want all emails recieved by an account to be put in to a folder based on date... for example if the email was recieved on august 2006, i want it to go to folder 2006-08
[05:32] <derekS> what is everyone using for spam protection?
[05:41] <nictuku> I am happy with postfix, amavis and spamassassin
[05:42] <derekS> nictuku: hmm, ok
[05:45] <derekS> nictuku: how do you seperate your mail into folders? i am looking for a good accurate scheme so my mailbox doesn't get too large
[05:45] <derekS> and then i won't have trouble opening it
[05:45] <nictuku> you mean in a server environment or in your local inbox?
[05:46] <nictuku> anyway, using maildir + maildrop/procmail is a start
[05:47] <derekS> i am using fetchmail->procmail->dovecot imap (all out of ~/Maildir
[05:47] <derekS> )
[05:47] <derekS> but i don't know of a decent method to sort them
[05:48] <nictuku> you know procmail can do that filtering, right?
[05:48] <derekS> nictuku: yeah, but i don't know how to filter it
[05:49] <derekS> i am using procmail to filter
[05:49] <nictuku> you can try switching to maildrop, its syntax is easier to digest, IMO
[05:49] <nictuku> google has a lot of resources about filterting with procmail
[05:50] <derekS> yeah i am reading :)
[05:54] <derekS> i got it, what i want to do is put everything in the main maildir, and then have a python script run once a week to move things that are older than 30 days into an MailDir that is Year-Month
[05:59] <nictuku> then you can either user your MUA filtering capabilities, or writing a script called by cron that does that. a simple bash using "find"+xargs would do it, I guess
[06:00] <derekS> i was planning to make a python/perl/etc script to just get called by cron
[06:00] <derekS> which would work
[09:36] <kagou> hi
[09:37] <kagou> i'v searched but not found answers on wiki. We have apache/postfix/courier officially included (in main). Including a webmail like imp is it planed ?
[12:43] <NineTeen67Comet> Anyone in here use Gallery2? .. I see it is available for install, but I've only used it via tar.gz .. unzip .. run it ..
[12:43] <NineTeen67Comet> How do I use it when apt-get installs it?
[12:56] <lionelp> Hi NineTeen67Comet
[12:56] <lionelp> that's probabily something like http://server/gallery2
[12:57] <lionelp> have a look on etc/gallery2/apache.conf to see
[12:57] <NineTeen67Comet> lionelp: That's not correct in my case .. all my users web sites are in /shared/www/<users URL> .. like my site is http://www.justinsteiger.com .. that main index.html file is in /shared/www/justinsteiger ..
[12:57] <NineTeen67Comet> I can check that .. thank you ..
[12:58] <NineTeen67Comet> Think I might be able to point something in the config to the main gallery data base ..
[12:59] <NineTeen67Comet> thanks for the direction lionelp
[01:11] <NineTeen67Comet> Sorry to rattle on again in here . but can Apache2 use files that are not in the normal sites path? My sites are all in /shared/www/<sites url> .. but gallery2 is in /usr/share/gallery2 .. and I need to get to /usr/shared/gallery2/install/main.php via the www in order to start setting it up ..
[01:23] <NineTeen67Comet> Think I got it .. had to make a subdomain, and have that listed as a virtual host in /etc/gallery2/apache.conf . then tell my DNS server to hand off gallery2.justinsteiger.com .. to that virtual host .. sigh .. shweew ..
[04:44] <derekS> how do you all do smtp with mutt?