[06:55] <didrocks> good morning
[06:56] <jibel> salut didrocks
[06:57] <didrocks> salut jibel
[07:01] <duflu> Salut didrocks et jibel
[07:01] <jibel> hi duflu
[07:08] <didrocks> hey duflu
[08:08] <seb128> goooood morning desktopers
[08:09] <didrocks> salut seb128
[08:10] <seb128> lut didrocks, comment ça va aujourd'hui ?
[08:10] <didrocks> seb128: je commence à être bloqué du coup, j’espère que ça ne va pas s’étaler comme d’habitude sur le dos ou je ne pourrais plus bouger…
[08:11] <seb128> didrocks, outch, repose toi en espérant qu'en effet tu ne sois pas bloqué pour demain :-/
[08:11] <didrocks> seb128: ouais, ce serait vraiment pas le bon moment, pas envie de manquer le FOSDEM :/
[08:34] <duflu> Morning seb128
[08:38] <seb128> hey duflu, how are you today?
[08:41] <duflu> seb128, feeling average but making good progress (https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gjs/merge_requests/387). How are you?
[08:41] <gitbot> GNOME issue (Merge request) 387 in gjs "wrapperutils: Cache resolve() results" [Opened]
[08:41] <seb128> duflu, I'm good today!
[09:03] <Laney> morning
[09:09] <duflu> Morning Laney
[09:09] <seb128> hey Laney, how are you today?
[09:14] <Laney> hey duflu seb128
[09:14] <Laney> bit of a blocked neck this morning :( hope it's better tomorrow
[09:14] <Laney> you?
[09:15] <seb128> :(
[09:15] <seb128> I'm good today!
[09:20] <Laney> good
[09:20] <Laney> hope the cough is better
[09:21] <didrocks> hey Laney, welcome to the blocked neck team
[09:22] <Laney> hey didrocks :(
[09:24] <seb128> Laney, it is better indeed :)
[09:24] <seb128> brb, relocating
[10:03] <Laney> In a python unit test:
[10:03] <Laney> Got a regular expression and a list of strings
[10:04] <Laney> what's a nice way to say that the regular expression should match at least one thing in the list?
[10:04] <Laney> nice> ideally if it fails you get some kind of decent output rather than "False is not True"
[10:29]  * Laney gives up on nice :(
[10:38] <mwhudson> self.assertThat("foo", MatchesAny(MatchesRegex(r1), MatchesRegex(r2)))
[10:38] <mwhudson> ?
[10:39] <mwhudson> oh wait, wrong way around
[10:40] <Laney> I've gone for "all([fnmatch.filter(seeded_flavours, flavour) for flavour in flavours.split()])"
[10:40] <Laney> glob instead of regex in the end
[10:40]  * Laney is ecstatic that cdimage uses british english
[10:41] <Laney> also it's python 2 not 3, forgot to mention that /o\
[10:58] <diddledan> moo
[11:04] <xnox> Laney:  No kernel output for oem-20.04! => argh
[11:05] <xnox> because of course it is initrd.img-5.4.0-1002-oem
[11:05] <Laney> ahhhhh I thought it was because I didn't merge cdimage but that's the later stage isn't it
[11:05] <xnox> so somehow live-build needs to know that although "oem-20.04" is requested, it should "package" "-oem" flavour
[11:07] <Laney> dunno what that means
[11:09] <xnox> Laney:  i think i have a patch, one second for you to review in a pastebin
[11:10] <xnox> oh
[11:10] <xnox> oh
[11:10] <xnox> oh
[11:13] <Laney> you
[11:15] <xnox> Laney:  i think we will need to revert the ubuntu-cdimage change back to just pulling "oem"
[11:15] <xnox> and do this in livecd-rootfs
[11:15] <xnox> https://git.launchpad.net/livecd-rootfs/commit/?id=db0c7d68f2539205e298e1c5bb8322740c8f9e45
[11:16] <xnox> Laney:  that is the bit the resolves "requested flavour name" to the "actual flavour name on disk"
[11:16] <xnox> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/livecd-rootfs/+git/livecd-rootfs/+merge/378309
[11:17] <xnox> it's called oem-20.04 such that eventually it becomes a transitional metapackage to -generic flavour, when we introduce oem-22.04
[11:17] <xnox> the same way that virtual is just generic without extra modules.
[11:19] <xnox> Laney:  i feel like i should upload this into a PPA and spin a test livefs build
[11:20] <Laney> good plan
[11:22] <Laney> you mean the 'package name' flavour and the 'on disk' flavour are different right?
[11:22] <Laney> lacking a suffix in the latter
[11:38] <Laney> mmm
[11:38] <Laney> not sure about this
[11:39] <Laney> guess we'll see
[13:35] <xnox> https://launchpad.net/~xnox/+livefs/ubuntu/focal/ubuntu-server-live/+build/201516 indeed this worked and created -oem artefact
[13:35] <xnox> so yeah will need to revert ubuntu-cdimage stuff
[13:47] <xnox> Laney:  livecd-rootfs uploaded; and here is the cdimage partial revert https://code.launchpad.net/~xnox/ubuntu-cdimage/focal-oem-20.04/+merge/378322
[14:31] <Laney> xnox: server-live????
[14:32] <Laney> ping me when it migrates please
[14:52] <xnox> Laney:  ignore the name of the livefs build; i just changed metadata to say project "ubuntu"
[14:52] <xnox> Laney:  cause normally i use that livefs to respin subiquity
[14:57] <Laney> okey
[15:03] <hellsworth> good morning desktopers!
[15:05] <seb128> hey hellsworth, how are you?
[15:06] <hellsworth> hi seb128 i'm pretty good. filled with energy this morning :)
[15:06] <hellsworth> yourself?
[15:06] <seb128> nice!
[15:06] <seb128> I'm good, thanks :)
[15:07] <hellsworth> i hope your cold is long gone by now
[15:08] <seb128> I'm feeling alright now but I'm still coughing a bit
[15:08] <hellsworth> drink all the tea :)
[15:11] <seb128> right, I'm working on it :)
[15:14] <hellsworth> :)
[17:11] <xnox> Laney:  are you in trains all day tomorrow?
[17:12] <xnox> Laney:  or like already today?
[17:12] <Laney> tomorrow
[17:12] <Laney> from 8AM
[17:12] <xnox> ack. i'm taking eurostart at like 11 something
[17:13] <Laney> 11:04 here
[17:14] <xnox> Laney:  same! what's your seat? maybe we can coordinate still
[17:14]  * Laney doesn't like this in public any more ;-)
[20:25] <kenvandine> good morning robert_ancell


[14:40] <den> Hi can any of you help me with a Jack issue I'm having?
[14:41] <coelebs> what's the issue?
[14:42] <den> I have my guitar hooked up to my PC, and I'm pretty sure I've got Rakarrack set up through Jack properly, but it seems as though my guitar is still not getting through to Rakarrack.
[14:43] <coelebs> let's see
[14:43] <coelebs> mine works out of the box
[14:44] <coelebs> now that i hooked up mic to mic in
[14:44] <coelebs> maybe you got line in selected
[14:44] <den> What do you mean?
[14:44] <coelebs> open terminal and alsamixer
[14:45] <den> Alright.
[14:45] <coelebs> press F4 and navigate to input source
[14:45] <den> Okay.
[14:45] <coelebs> you can choose with up/down arrows
[14:46] <den> Out of line, front, and rear mic, the only sound I get at all come from Line.
[14:46] <coelebs> do you have laptop?
[14:46] <den> No it's a desktop.
[14:47] <coelebs> and you turned the volume knob on guitar?
[14:47] <den> Yes.
[14:47] <coelebs> let's take qjackctl open next
[14:48] <coelebs> you might want to keep alsamixer open
[14:48] <den> I already have qjackctl open.
[14:48] <holstein> den: does jack work otherwise?
[14:49] <coelebs> system goes to rakarrack and rakarrack goes to system in connection panel?
[14:49] <coelebs> and jack is running?
[14:49] <den> Yes, and yes.
[14:49] <holstein> plugging a guitar straight into any sound card like that may not work on a simple impedance level..
[14:50] <den> I've had it working before on Ubuntu 13.12 but it stopped when I installed 14.04.
[14:50] <holstein> the line in's are not for instruments
[14:50] <holstein> den: you mean, on 13.10?
[14:50] <den> Yeah.
[14:52] <den> I have no idea why it isn't working now.
[14:52] <holstein> den: can you route *anything* through jack?
[14:52] <holstein> den: you get software working? output? like a file that plays? correct?
[14:53] <den> I don't know for certain.
[14:53] <den> How can I test that?
[14:53] <holstein> den: route something through jack, like a known good audio file in audacious
[14:53] <holstein> if you dont get output from there, you wont pass the input through anything and get output
[14:54] <den> I don't have audacious installed, let me get it really quickly.
[14:55] <holstein> den: whatever you use that uses jack.. vlc, whatever
[14:55] <holstein> yoshimi
[14:55] <holstein> just make sure that jack is running, then that it is outputting to the card
[14:55] <holstein> then, you can read that, even in 13.10, that input is inappropriate for instruments
[14:55] <den> Okay it won't play the loaded file. It doesn't progress at all.
[14:56] <holstein> den: wont play? or wont route?
[14:56] <holstein> den: what would i do? try and thin *all* of this out... stop jack. then, get *any* audio file playing
[14:56] <holstein> then, you'll call that the "known good audio file".. you'll take the known good audio file and get it playing with jack
[14:56] <holstein> *then* move on to line inputs, such as the guitar
[14:59] <den> Okay so the audio file does not work while Jack is open at all, and even when it's closed it seems to cause vlc to hang completely.
[14:59] <holstein> den: so, thats not a "known good" audio file, then
[14:59] <holstein> den: now, you have additional quesitons to ask and answer.. is the file supported by a codec? is it corrupt.. etc
[14:59] <den> I mean, any of the audio files on my computer don't work after I open Jack, close it, close VLC, and re-open VLC.
[15:00] <holstein> den: you cant "close" jack.. it must be stopped.. if its runing in teh background, it takes over the audio device, and then, you have qjackctl closed and cant route
[15:00] <holstein> !proaudio
[15:01] <den> Oh I did stop it before I quit qjackctl.
[15:01] <holstein> den: vlc, also must be set to use jack, or pulse
[15:01] <holstein> but, you need not get to fixated on getting that to work.. this is not a fix for you.. its just troubleshooting.. get *anything* to make *any* sound in jack.. yoshimi is a nice one
[15:03] <den> Okay so I installed Yoshimi, started Jack and opened it. Now what do you want me to do?
[15:03] <holstein> den: i want you to literally make a sound with jack running
[15:04] <holstein> den: whatever you think is the shortest and most reliable path to you being ablt to create a noise in jack
[15:04] <den> But I don't know how to do that. I am a complete Linux newbie.
[15:04] <holstein> !proaudio
[15:05] <den> What is that?
[15:05] <holstein> den: yoshimi makes its own sounds, and has a built in keyboard, so, routing the audio is all that is required to see that audio attempt to hear audio
[15:06] <den> Okay I can see where there is audio, but i can't hear it.
[15:06] <holstein> den: then, thats a problem. and nothing you plug in, such as your guitar, or rakarrak, or anything else will make sound til you learn to route there, and what the issue is
[15:07] <den> Well how do I learn that?
[15:07] <holstein> den: there is no need to troubleshoot "guitar through rakarrak" yet, when, actually, *no* audio is going through jack
[15:07] <den> Okay so I just connected left and right to playback 1 and 2 and now I get sound.
[15:08] <holstein> den: you have to/need to make *all* connections like that
[15:08] <holstein> den: you'll see the input on the device on the left in the "connect" panel of qjackctl.. you'll route the guitar plugged into that jack from there..
[15:09] <holstein> den: you wont see a label named "guitar input".. it can be labeled literally anything.. so, i'll just test them til i see what is what
[15:09] <holstein> you have no guarantee from the creators of the device for alsa/linux support, so the labels cannot be trusted
[15:10] <holstein> den: i must be off.. i'll leave you with coelebs .. and also, the #opensourcemusicians channel can be helpful.. but i think you'll find you have a simple routing issue there
[15:11] <den> Thanks Holstein.
[19:41] <staxxx> Hello everyone. I'm having a bit of trouble with jack recently. for instance i cannot connect my oxygen midi keyboard to sooperlooper as it doesnt show in the midi box in jack. I can connect my keyboard to amsynth but not sooperlooper. any help here please? thanks
[19:57] <staxxx> sooperlooper does not show in jackś midi input ports
[20:00] <staxxx> phasex doesn appear also
[21:09] <staxxx> any help here?


[11:39] <daw> Hello
[11:49] <penguin42> hey
[12:22] <daftykins> aww penguin42 you scared them off!
[12:58] <penguin42> hmm
[15:27] <m0nkey_> lol, so this usb-c dock does not like my monitor over display port. using it this morning the screen goes blank under load.  switched to hdmi and it's fine. time to report a bug to IT.
[15:28] <zxmpi_> seems wrong that usb-c cannot handle hdmi. wasn't that part of the whole point?
[15:30] <m0nkey_> it's weird that it has issue driving it over DP, I even dropped the refresh to 60hz and it still blanked on me. since going over to hdmi, running at 100hz without issue.
[15:30] <m0nkey_> I tried changing the DP cable too
[15:30] <daftykins> when i set up the Lenovo dock for a client, they all have firmware updates that need applying - could well be worth giving that a whirl
[15:31] <m0nkey_> today is just a day of IT errors.. can't get my server in the DC to talk to the network and now this lol
[15:31] <daftykins> :)
[15:31] <daftykins> i just got called up by a client who didn't know how to log out of his secretary's account and into his own
[15:32]  * m0nkey_ facepalms
[15:32] <m0nkey_> seems you have greater challenges than I
[15:34] <daftykins> hehe, sometimes
[15:34] <daftykins> thankfully less frequent perhaps
[15:35] <daftykins> but yeah, you should be able to track down the firmware updater for the dock if it's one of the thunderbolt models i'm thinking of (big rectangular box)
[15:41] <m0nkey_> nah, it's a usb-c dock.. laptop doesn't have thundebolt
[15:41] <daftykins> ah yeah being an earlier AMD model
[16:20] <rbasak> If it's not Thunderbolt over USB-C, is it actually DisplayLink and not DisplayPort? Because that requires CPU.
[16:22] <daftykins> i hadn't heard that name before, but it'd likely just be DisplayPort Alt Mode
[16:23] <daftykins> no idea how mobile AMD chips would achieve that
[16:32] <m0nkey_> Whatever it is.. it doesn't like my monitor. Since switching it to HDMI I've not had a problem.
[16:33] <daftykins> very odd since it's an inferior connector type
[17:28] <zxmpi_> it's been all down hill since they started phasing out vga :-D
[17:32] <daftykins> nooo, dumping analog was great
[17:32] <zxmpi_> vinyl sales would suggest not :-P
[17:34] <daftykins> obviously i was only referring to display connections, but i think anyone preferring vinyl does so for the ritual of the experience and not necessarily any belief in genuinely detecting a difference aside from using different equipment they invested more in, perhaps
[17:34] <daftykins> the idea that you have to clean the things to keep them tip-top shocked me xD
[17:34] <zxmpi_> yeah there is a ritual component to the enjoyment of vinyl alright. odd that cassette might go same way
[17:35] <zxmpi_> though i did enjoy the hackaday project to save data to tape :-D
[17:36] <zxmpi_> i finally bought a hdmi monitor and the one hdmi cable gave me so much grief i went back to vga cable (it has both sockets) and stuck with it
[17:37] <daftykins> what was it doing? was this combined with that ailing ThinkPad you mentioned?
[17:38] <zxmpi_> me, nah, just a cheap hdmi cable i reckon. but have never had a single vga cable fail. even bent pins could be fixed with care
[17:39] <daftykins> more of a sign of the times as to how much trash is out there perhaps
[17:39] <zxmpi_> very much so
[17:39] <daftykins> i was discussing a client's TV plans with him and his electrician and carpenter the other day, had to mention how it's worth getting the right cables 'cause they're not all born equal
[17:40] <zxmpi_> you could abseil out a building with a dozen nokia chargers tied together. you wouldn't try that with a half dozen apple charging cables :-D
[17:40] <daftykins> sparky said "i've never had a problem" so i had to stress that yes it happens :D when i moved to 4K kit all my existing ones couldn't handle it
[17:40] <daftykins> well those are designed to fail to give them more profit!
[17:41] <daftykins> interesting that MS just knocked them to the second spot in most valuable company
[17:42] <zxmpi_> all those corporations jonesing on office365 subscriptions will do that
[17:45] <penguin42> daftykins: Yeh when I got a 4k monitor I had a problem where it would occasionally blank on some images; especially G.maps satellite view for some reason
[17:45] <penguin42> daftykins: I found out how to read the BER counters on the monitor
[17:54] <daftykins> neat :)
[17:54] <daftykins> probably higher throughput utilised with the satellite imagery than standard desktop use with blocks of the same colour?
[18:21] <penguin42> yeh maybe
[23:30] <zxmpi_> wonder if it comes with a tree detector as standard :-P https://www.breakingnews.ie/lifestyle/hoverbike-goes-on-sale-for-e600000-as-startup-tries-to-lure-supercar-owners-1205709.html
[23:34]  * penguin42 hopes it doesn't lose any fan blades


[12:45] <pivi> nawty: it is it is
[12:45] <pivi> good night
[12:45] <Plug> pdr: if you use the PPC version, I believe so
[01:22] <Plug> hmmm
[01:22] <Plug> I restarted apache2 and now it's not interpreting php any more
[01:22] <Plug> just trying to serve it as x-httpd-php
[01:22] <Plug> libapache2-mod-php5 is installed and enabled
[01:30] <Plug> ..that was weird
[01:30] <Plug> and now its working :)
[01:33] <Plug> it seems not to like redirecting / to index.php atm
[01:45] <h3sp4wn> put DirectoryIndex index.php into a file called .htaccess
[01:45] <Plug> it 'used to work'
[04:55] <xerophyte> does anybody know where can i find the cyrus-imapd new version of debs  the drapper only has 2.1.18 but the new version is 2.3.x something
[04:56] <Plug> try apt-get.org, but if its not in dapper, you might have to massage them to get them going on ubuntu
[04:57] <xerophyte> i think the older version of cyrus-imapd has some security issue too
[04:57] <xerophyte> so just wondering why does not drapper didnt update it
[04:58] <Plug> Ubuntu takes what debian sid has at the time
[04:58] <Plug> packages.debian.org - what version is in Debian?
[05:00] <xerophyte> 2.1.18-1
[05:00] <xerophyte> hmmm
[05:00] <xerophyte> but there seems to be some security issue on the version 2.2
[05:00] <xerophyte> this is older than that
[05:00] <xerophyte> and there is 2.3
[05:00] <xerophyte> hmm
[05:01] <Plug> sure, but that doesn't mean someone has gone to the effort required to package the newer version for Debian or Ubuntu
[05:03] <xerophyte> hmmm
[05:12] <xerophyte> if i have file name /usr/bin/mail how can check which package its belong to like rpm -qf filename
[05:13] <Plug> dpkg -S
[05:13] <xerophyte> thx
[06:00] <xerophyte> why there is two version of cyrus-imapd just wondering cyrus21-admin cyrus-imapd-2.2
[06:00] <xerophyte> ??
[06:16] <Plug> because you can install either 2.1 or 2.2
[06:54] <xerophyte> Plug, have you ever setup mailserver with postfix +cyrus-imap + mysql + ssal + mysql-pam + with squirremail i need to setup
[06:54] <xerophyte> so just thinking how can i go about configuration it and get ti working :)
[07:24] <Plug> xerophyte: no
[07:24] <Plug> I prefer Exim as an MTA
[07:43] <maswan> Any plans for a next-gen servercandy spec that I could give some input to, or should i look at speccing up some neat stuff myself? (hpc-ubuntu springs to mind)
[07:48] <fabbione> maswan: hpc is in my list too and it was specced for dapper..
[07:48] <fabbione> maswan: you might want to pick up the old UbuntuClusters wiki page, clean it up and make it ready for Edgy
[07:48] <fabbione> be aware to please keep the dapper stuff untill dapper is released
[07:52] <maswan> fabbione: Yeah, it was something like that I was thinking of. Any suggestions on how to do the wiki thing? Copy to EdgyClusters?
[07:53] <fabbione> maswan: i suggest you add all at the bottom of UbuntuClusters
[07:53] <fabbione> we will clean it up when it's time
[07:53] <fabbione> like:
[07:53] <fabbione> [07:53] <fabbione> and starts from there
[07:53] <maswan> Ah, ok. I'll take a go at that then.
[07:54] <fabbione> yes
[07:54] <fabbione> there are for sure leftovers from Dapper that we want to carry to Edgy
[08:15] <maswan> Now, what were all those neat ideas I had yesterday regarding this? :)
[08:20] <maswan> Ok, a first dump of edgy crack there.
[08:20] <maswan> I'll talk to my collegues here about what kind of crack we'd appriciate. :)
[08:22] <maswan> "We will be changing from Debian to Ubuntu at Benedict, and I would like to known which releases we should keep" <- more academic HPC clusters on ubuntu coming up. :) You happen to be close to Aalborg University, fabbione? :)
[08:22] <fabbione> someone... it's about 400km
[08:22] <fabbione> somehow ^
[08:24] <fabbione> maswan: i am pretty sure i can get sponsored to be there if there is interests in discussing the topic
[08:24] <fabbione> but that assumes that it's not during the release process of Dapper
[08:25] <maswan> fabbione: Probably not, just a point of curiousity really.
[08:25] <fabbione> ok :)
[08:27] <maswan> Local scratchpad: SSI, Xen
[08:28] <maswan> openafs
[08:32] <fabbione> maswan: please don't mix Xen with cluster..
[08:32] <fabbione> it's really not the same thing
[08:33] <maswan> fabbione: Well, it has real applications here for grid clusters in sandboxing processes.
[08:33] <maswan> s/processes/jobs/
[08:33] <maswan> but sure, I can avoid it here. :)
[08:34] <fabbione> Xen has to be considered kernel/virtualization spec
[08:34] <fabbione> it's not "server" or "cluster" spec
[08:34] <fabbione> note: *spec*
[08:34] <maswan> Currently braindumping, needs to be spec:ed.
[08:35] <maswan> Hmm, there is an openafs spec around too.
[08:41] <maswan> Hmm.. "Sandboxing" in the more general sense might make sense to include though. In that if you have a batch system setup, you want to be sure you've cleaned up after the previous job before starting the next.
[08:47] <maswan> Does that make sense in a spec way?
[08:51] <fabbione> + Profiling: A vmlinux binary should probably be shipped somewhere for distribution kernels, in a well-documented or well-known location, for use with oprofile and so.
[08:51] <fabbione> ^^this is kernel spec
[08:52] <fabbione> + Commercial support advocacy: A collaborative way of indicating that you want support for weird hardware without free drivers (quite common for narrow high-performance devices) or commercial software. This might be neat if it can be used to lobby some manufacturers into supporting more than just redhat and suse. This is possibly out of scope for this spec, but this is one place where the need can be seen.
[08:52] <fabbione> there is already a spec for that
[08:52] <fabbione> 3rdy part vendors something support
[08:52] <maswan> 'k
[08:53] <maswan> only thing I find is an UDU BOF with no real content
[08:54] <maswan> and only regarding software
[08:54] <fabbione> maswan: i remember seeing one
[08:54] <fabbione> but for that kind of thing you better talk to Malcom Yates directly
[08:54] <fabbione><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[08:55] <fabbione> because it's something that usually starts from $company and not really $distro
[08:56] <fabbione> + Tuning knowledgebase or good defaults for various high-performance loads (databases, fileservers, number crunching, networking, etc).
[08:56] <fabbione> i am not sure what you mean here
[08:56] <fabbione> i think you are mixing a few concepts together
[08:56] <maswan> The thing I was aiming towards was a way to tell $company that there is a large bunch of users that want it. Otherwise $company usually requires $money.
[08:56] <maswan> Probably
[08:56] <fabbione> when you write a spec you need to isolate what you want
[08:56] <fabbione> you want HPC, right?
[08:57] <fabbione> what is HPC..
[08:57] <fabbione> HPC is.. bla bla bla foo bar
[08:57] <fabbione> what are the HPC solutions out there?
[08:57] <fabbione> a) b) c) d)
[08:57] <fabbione> which one make more sense to bring in and why?
[08:57] <fabbione> a) c)
[08:57] <fabbione> how do we push them in Ubuntu
[08:57] <fabbione> we do: foo) bar) baz) biz) ping) pong)
[08:57] <fabbione> stop
[08:58] <fabbione> what you are writing in the specs are just general ideas
[08:58] <fabbione> and most of them not even relevant for Clustering
[08:58] <fabbione>  high-performance loads might need to be achieved indipendently of a cluster environment
[09:00] <maswan> Ok, I'll go over that and remove most of the things and leave the relevant.
[09:00] <maswan> The thing is, on another level, clusters are never a goal in themselves. You want either performance or reliability.
[09:00] <maswan> So yes, I'm confusing goal with method on several levels.
[09:01] <maswan> That'll probably take an hour or so, but I will get back to it.
[09:06] <fabbione> take your time
[09:06] <fabbione> the goal of a spec is to get from 0 to be able to install a working foo
[09:07] <fabbione> try to think at distcc
[09:07] <fabbione> the most "stupid HPC cluster"
[09:07] <fabbione> - get distcc packaged
[09:07] <fabbione> - move it to main
[09:07] <fabbione> - auto install distcc if option foo is selected
[09:08] <fabbione> - set default sane config (if possible)
[09:08] <fabbione> - auto start distcc at boot
[09:08] <fabbione> this is how a spec would look like
[09:08] <fabbione> now if you think it in HPC terms
[09:08] <fabbione> let say that a lot of people use these MPI implementation:
[09:08] <fabbione> - what is the best MPI implementation out there: foo
[09:09] <fabbione> ok it's foo...
[09:09] <fabbione> than just s/distcc/foo/
[09:09] <fabbione> and you get your spec
[09:09] <fabbione> more or less
[09:09] <fabbione> the final app written on top of MPI is not our goal
[09:09] <fabbione> it can't be
[09:09] <fabbione> our goal is to provide the underground for it
[09:12] <maswan> Yeah. That's why stuff like profiling ended up there though, because I'm thinking "cluster as usable computational resource"
[09:15] <maswan> This is a large and complex system though, and the base OS is just part of it. Trying to figure out what bits are needed, and what parts are resonable to call Clusters
[09:15] <fabbione> maswan: i know.. it's not easy
[09:16] <fabbione> that's why you usually sit around a table with N other people that have experience in that field
[09:16] <maswan> Specs are much simpler if you have just one feature. :)
[09:17] <neuralis> fabbione: yeah, i imagine we'll want at least one clustering and virtualization bof at the next dev conference
[09:17] <fabbione> the point is that you can split the spec into multiple smaller specs
[09:18] <fabbione> neuralis: yes, too bad i won't be there. so you will have to work it out for me
[09:18] <neuralis> fabbione: do we have dates nailed down for that yet? i'm not positive if i'll be able to come yet, either.
[09:19] <fabbione> neuralis: i think it's going to be one or two weeks after release
[09:19] <fabbione> no later than that..
[09:19] <fabbione> how long? no clue
[09:21] <maswan> Yeah, it'd be neat to be able to get input as such a bof, but being not being a developer it's hard to motivate going to a dev confereance
[09:23] <fabbione> uh why?
[09:23] <fabbione> you as a "user" have quite a lot of voice
[09:24] <fabbione> it's not like  you are asked to sit in a corner and listen
[09:24] <fabbione> ask people that have been there
[09:24] <fabbione> neuralis for example has been almost crossburned alive
[09:24] <maswan> Ehm, motivating to your side, but motivating to myself and to my employer
[09:25] <neuralis> maswan: well, your employer is another story. but you should have plenty of motivation to come.
[09:25] <maswan> Of course, if it happens to be resonably close, it might happen. But probably not travelling accross the world.
[09:25] <fabbione> should be EU this time
[09:26] <maswan> That'd be considerably cheaper, yes. It also depends on the general setup, if it is only 2 hours of server/hpc and the rest is silly desktopping... It's a priority question, really, between time and money and stuff on the other side.
[09:27] <neuralis> maswan: there will be several server bofs, but probably not much more than 2-3 hours total.
[09:28] <maswan> Anyway, I'm interested in going yes, so far I haven't been able to talk my wallet or my employer into it though. :)
[09:28] <fabbione> maswan: you know that we do sponsor people?
[09:28] <fabbione> not everybody
[09:28] <fabbione> but there is such option
[09:29] <fabbione> also
[09:29] <fabbione> bofs are really a matter of who is there
[09:29] <fabbione> some bofs can take hours and hours
[09:29] <fabbione> others are like 10 minutes
[09:29] <fabbione> it seriously depends who is sitting around the table
[09:29] <fabbione> neuralis and I have been fighting for about 3 hours on a solution
[09:29] <fabbione> YES
[09:29] <maswan> Hmm.. Also, we might look at an internal mirroring bof, that'd be most interesting if we can get the right people to it. That's a pretty internal discussion, sure, but it is interesting and important.
[09:29] <fabbione> NO
[09:29] <fabbione> YES
[09:29] <fabbione> NO
[09:29] <fabbione> etc.
[09:30] <fabbione> maswan: suggest it
[09:30] <fabbione> register the spec in launchpad and open a page on the wiki
[09:32] <neuralis> maswan: what do you mean when you say internal mirroring?
[09:33] <maswan> neuralis: mirroring of ubuntu
[09:33] <maswan> bbiab
[09:34] <neuralis> fabbione: i think it's not clear to most people what bofs are in the ubuntu dev conference sense, because they're not just a place for people with similar interests to get together and hang out, but to actually work on some aspect of improving ubuntu and then write it up
[09:35] <neuralis> fabbione: (unless i'm not getting what maswan is talking about, he wants a bof in the traditional sense)
[09:37] <fabbione> yeah i think so too
[10:06] <maswan> This is true, and yes, that's the primary bit I was thinking of. Overloading a term always has that problem though.
[10:12] <maswan> Because what'd be most useful for the mirroring situation is probably a traditional bof. It can probably be disguised by some generic "people download isos fast"-spec, I guess. But I dont' know.
[10:12] <neuralis> i believe the plan is to offer a community/users' conference separately from the development conference
[10:12] <neuralis> or at least mark said he was thinking about it back in montreal
[10:13] <neuralis> so while users will be welcome at the devconf, it will be a *dev* conf, meaning informational bofs (like this one with mirroring) will be off the table.
[10:14] <maswan> Not so much informational as unstructured. There will be a goal, in making the mirroing infrastructure better.
[10:15] <maswan> It's just that the hows etc are unknown.
[10:31] <maswan> Heh. I give up, now it's clear that that stuff is comments, not an actual spec. I can't wrap my head around UbuntuClusters as being a feature that we need to get into eft. I can just think of improvements to it, most of which are more generic.
[10:46] <maswan> Btw, regarding the metadiscussion, perhaps a development process transparacy project or howto might be good?
[10:53] <maswan> Something I probably can write at least half a spec for is LustreInUbuntu, I don't know what to do with the implementation though.
[11:39] <allee> maswan: where is the openafs spec? I only found OpenAFSSupport
[12:14] <neuralis> maswan: write the (half) spec
[12:14] <neuralis> maswan: we'll see what we can do with it.
[12:34] <maswan> allee: That's what I saw.
[12:37] <maswan> neuralis: I'll let it simmer in my head a bit to get a proper spec out of it, expect it on monday
[07:38] <pdr> Plug: thanks, will give it a go in the near future
[07:39] <pdr> (re ppc install on ibm servers)
[10:49] <xerophyte> Could somebody compare the Hula vs (postfix+cyrus-imap+squirellmail) ??? brief should good good


[03:14] <charlie-tca> cody-somerville, pleia2 : can someone please update the download page for 11.04?
[03:15] <cody-somerville> Yup. I can.
[03:15] <charlie-tca> I can't even get the site to come up half the time
[03:15] <cody-somerville> https://www-admin.xubuntu.org/ to login now.
[03:15] <charlie-tca> Thanks. I would be happy to just get https://xubuntu.org/ more than 50% of the time
[03:16] <cody-somerville> right
[03:17] <cody-somerville> there appears to be a problem with the cache they setup
[03:17] <cody-somerville> I'll escalate to IS
[03:17] <charlie-tca> real bad timing for them to decide to do that today
[03:17] <cody-somerville> We were probably overloading the server again.
[03:19] <charlie-tca> hm, I think we are overloading the main now, since the only images available are at http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/natty/release/
[03:19] <holstein> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/11.04/release/
[03:19] <holstein> thats where i was looking ^
[03:19] <holstein> probably the same target though...
[03:20] <charlie-tca> it is, it is just a link to each other
[03:29] <charlie-tca> Thanks for trying, cody-somerville
[03:29] <charlie-tca> At least I know it wasn't me this time... :-)
[03:29] <charlie-tca> I am going to bed, maybe I can sleep tonight.
[04:08] <cody-somerville> charlie-tca, IS is working on it
[05:25] <cody-somerville> Anyone have a good 11.04 screenshot I can use for frontpage of xubuntu.org?
[05:28] <cody-somerville> FYI, Traffic to xubuntu.org today tripled from the daily average
[05:29]  * cody-somerville also notes that he has updated the website except for new screenshots.
[05:34] <Unit193> cody-somerville: http://imgur.com/a/ppfTE
[05:35] <Unit193> Second or third one down
[05:35] <Unit193> (Not saying they are great)
[05:35] <cody-somerville> is that running in a vm or something?
[05:36] <Unit193> Yeah. You want the one I'm using now?
[05:37] <cody-somerville> No, its okay. I gotta go to bed. Its just that I can see a bit of the window on the bottom of the image (specifically, lower right)
[08:43] <ochosi> charlie-tca, pleia2: could someone correct the "Natty Meerkat" on the "Get Xubuntu" page?
[08:43] <ochosi> also: would be great if someone could update the screenshot
[08:45] <ochosi> sry, g2g now, but probably bbl
[08:46] <micahg> what a maverick that meerkat was, even became natty :)
[11:00] <ochosi> btw, in case any of you understand .hu feel free to check whether this review is good or bad: http://mogorvamormota.hu/2011/04/10/xubuntu-11-04-elozetes/
[11:22] <mr_pouit> google translate seems to think it's not bad
[11:22] <mr_pouit> especially nice comments about the appearance/theme
[11:25] <ochosi> oh, why didn't i think of that....
[11:25] <ochosi> i guess i was distracted by watching the wedding :)
[11:29] <ochosi> yes, seems fairly positive in general
[13:04] <TechnoFreak> Is this the right place to point out that it currently says 'Xubuntu Mirrors (11.04 Natty Meerkat):' on http://xubuntu.org/get ?
[14:16] <charlie-tca> A review of Xubuntu 11.04 - http://www.webupd8.org/2011/04/xubuntu-1104-released-with-xfce-48.html
[14:16] <charlie-tca> cody-somerville: thank you for updating the website.
[15:13] <charlie-tca> Xubuntu 9.10 is EOL today, 2011-04-29
[15:48] <charlie-tca> Xubuntu 8.04 is EOL on 2011-05-12
[15:50] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit: Monday meetings, what is the best time for you?
[16:11] <mr_pouit> yo
[16:11] <mr_pouit> charlie-tca: what are the proposed times for everyone?
[16:12] <mr_pouit> probably after 6pm utc
[16:22] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit: times jump all over, but if 7pm utc is good, I think we run with it
[16:22] <charlie-tca> nothing before 16:00 UTC was okay
[17:13] <pleia2> ochosi: fixed "Natty Meerkat"
[17:15] <charlie-tca> thank you
[17:24] <pleia2> I am going to be super busy these next few weeks, but I'll be working on updates when I can, if anyone is going through the site and finds something a quick bug report would help a lot https://bugs.launchpad.net/xubuntu-website
[17:24] <pleia2> then I won't lose track :)
[17:25] <charlie-tca> new image on the frontpage?
[17:26] <pleia2> yeah, screenshots are one of the much needed things
[17:26] <pleia2> I will have time at 00:00 UTC to start updating screenshots (if someone else wants to start before then I can upload them, else I'll just take them all myself in a virtualbox install)
[17:27]  * pleia2 busy at work until then
[19:08] <ochosi> pleia2: thanks! (also for the screeners - i might in fact be able to provide them, i'll ping you about it if i can)
[19:12] <charlie-tca> Ideas for Oneiric - lightdm
[19:12] <charlie-tca> Ideas for Oneiric - improve on existing theme and artwork
[19:13]  * charlie-tca finally got a background he can use...
[19:14] <Unit193> I think it would be nice to have pastebinit preinstalled (for command output)
[19:14] <charlie-tca> Ideas for Oneiric - midori (bookmarks can be imported now)
[19:14] <charlie-tca> feel free to add to this list
[19:15] <Unit193> Ideas for Oneiric - pastebinti
[19:15] <charlie-tca> Ideas for Oneiric - pavucontrol for pulse audio
[19:16] <charlie-tca> pastebinit really works? I guess I don't use it
[19:18] <micahg> pastebinit rocks
[19:18] <charlie-tca> I guess I should put these on the ML, huh? keeps them from getting lost
[19:19] <micahg> charlie-tca: I'd support midori at this point :)
[19:19] <micahg> err, or rather at least by the time we get to release
[19:19] <charlie-tca> it it is good, why don't we install pastebinit by default?
[19:19] <micahg> space?
[19:20] <micahg> also, cli tools aren't jumping to be placed in the default install
[19:20] <charlie-tca> space shouldn
[19:20] <charlie-tca> space shouldn't be a problem, can't we pull it in during the downloads?
[19:21] <charlie-tca> 31.7KB, that should fit
[19:21] <Unit193> pastebinit = 492 kB installed
[19:21] <micahg> charlie-tca: are you talking for xubuntu?
[19:21] <charlie-tca> yeah, but we put the compressed file in
[19:21] <charlie-tca> yes
[19:22] <Unit193> charlie-tca: Sorry
[19:22] <micahg> I don't see why it couldn't go in
[19:22] <charlie-tca> not if it is that small
[19:25] <charlie-tca> although sometimes mr_pouit sees reasons I miss
[19:31] <pleia2> ochosi: oh good re: screenshots, I might update the front page one tonight and then I'll go through the site to find others which are needed and come up with a list
[19:31] <charlie-tca> Message to ML sent out with ideas
[19:32] <charlie-tca> that would be great! first impressions count, thus the front page thing...
[19:32] <Unit193> I gave a link of the main screen, can I help anymore?
[19:51] <pleia2> k, front page screenshot updated
[19:53] <charlie-tca> Thank you
[19:54] <charlie-tca> now I can go to "I don't care so much until we get things changed over"?
[19:54] <pleia2> hm?
[19:55] <pleia2> we'll be copying all the pages over to wordpress, so no effort on improving the content and screenshots now is wasted
[19:55] <charlie-tca> I can wait for almost everything until we get the website changed over to wordpress
[19:55] <charlie-tca> right
[19:55] <charlie-tca> I don't see any issues with that
[19:56] <pleia2> :)
[19:58] <pleia2> ochosi: if you could get the screenshots with the pretty grey backdrop on http://xubuntu.org/tour that'd be great (I can do straight screenshots, but I am useless with effects)
[20:15] <ochosi> pleia2: what pretty grey backdrop are you thinking of?
[20:15] <pleia2> ochosi: on /tour the images have fuzzy grey borders
[20:15] <pleia2> or shadows
[20:15] <ochosi> you mean the shadow?
[20:15] <pleia2> whatever they are called :)
[20:15] <ochosi> ah :)
[20:16] <ochosi> anywho, if you can give me clean screener i can always add the shadow
[20:16] <ochosi> atm i'm busy helping other people around to install xubuntu
[20:16] <ochosi> (in rl, not on irc ;) )
[20:17] <pleia2> ok, thanks
[21:45] <pleia2> ochosi: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lyz/xubuntu/natty/
[21:45] <pleia2> let me know if you want more :) for /tour
[21:46] <pleia2> (no rush, I just had some time during lunch so I got these done)
[21:52] <knome> n-xubuntu-sc.png has crap at the left side?
[21:52] <knome> as well as -sc2
[21:52] <pleia2> the "n" ?
[21:52] <knome> yup
[21:52] <pleia2> yeah, ochosi will clean these up before we post them on the site
[21:52] <knome> right, good
[21:53] <knome> well... the firefox shot isn't perfect either (the shadow seems to be cut, which is harder to fix)
[21:54] <pleia2> yeah, I may need to redo some to get things perfect
[21:59] <knome> i have an idea.
[22:00] <knome> why don't we just drop #xubuntu-offtopic, and try to allow more chatter in #xubuntu while there is no support issues, and we'd get a more active #xubuntu altogether
[22:01] <pleia2> I don't have a problem with doing a trial of this
[22:01] <knome> i'm proposing this only because #xubuntu is already quite relaxed, and even if users were pointed to -offtopic, they rarely stay there, which means that channel is not going to be active, ever
[22:02] <knome> well of course this needs to be discussed broader, but right now it just seems we're hitting our heads against the wall telling people not to say anything in #xubuntu
[22:02]  * pleia2 nods
[22:02] <knome> of course, we could try to keep the discussion somewhat related to xubuntu/linux, so we don't go to subjects like politics...
[22:02] <knome> (though that might relate :P)
[22:03] <pleia2> even in #ubuntu-offtopic they ask people to avoid religion, politics
[22:03] <knome> sure
[22:03] <pleia2> !o4o
[22:03] <knome> isn't that in the ubuntu CoC
[22:03] <knome> ah, it was the freenode policy
[22:03] <knome> which kind of wasn't so positive regarding pol/rel
[22:04] <pleia2> wouldn't be a problem if people could act like grown ups :x
[22:04] <knome> heh
[22:04] <knome> sure
[22:14] <knome> sent mail to dev ML
[22:45] <knome> ugh. sent three mails there
[22:59] <Unit193> knome: I like the idea of putting -offtopic in #xubuntu, but did you see your emlail?
[23:00] <knome> did i see my email? :)
[23:00] <knome> or do you mean - did i read the reply from charlie, which i already replied?
[23:02]  * Unit193 didn't get that yet