[14:02] <obbs> So how's Minnesota doing?
[18:06] <tonyyarusso> Not bad
[18:06] <tonyyarusso> Not very exciting though


[02:13] <mup> PR snapd#9576 opened: [RFC] snap-bootstrap: be more robust for recover mode, ignore some errors <UC20> <Created by anonymouse64> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9576>
[02:18] <mup> PR snapd#9577 opened: many: seal a fallback object to the recovery boot chain <Run nested> <UC20> <Created by cmatsuoka> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9577>
[03:18] <mup> PR snapcraft#3344 closed: pyproject: add isort with black-compatible configuration <Created by cjp256> <Merged by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/3344>
[06:24] <mup> PR snapd#9570 closed: gadget/internal: tune ext4 setting for smaller filesystems <Run nested> <UC20> <Created by bboozzoo> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9570>
[06:54] <zyga-mbp> mvo my last day
[06:54] <mvo> good morning zyga-mbp
[06:55] <mvo> zyga-mbp: yes, sad but true
[06:55] <zyga-mbp> I think I got a cold though, last evening I felt terribly weak
[06:55] <zyga-mbp> I'll get to finish what I worked on with pedronis yesterday now
[06:59] <mvo> thanks zyga-mbp ! let me know if I can help in any way
[07:01] <zyga-mbp> sure
[07:01] <zyga-mbp> mvo how do I sign the CLA?
[07:04] <mvo> zyga-mbp: should be super easy, just go to https://ubuntu.com/legal/contributors
[07:04] <mvo> zyga-mbp: and navigate to https://ubuntu.com/legal/contributors/agreement
[07:04] <mvo> zyga-mbp: and the rest is hopefully straightforward
[07:06] <mborzecki> morning
[07:08] <mvo> good morning mborzecki
[07:09] <mvo> mborzecki: there are some questions from ian in 9565, I would have pushed myself but I'm unsure about the devicestate_test.go questions, could you please have a look? I think this is ready otherwise (and we can always land tweaks in a followup, will make other PRs easier :)
[07:10] <mvo> mborzecki: just to be clear, if this pr just needs tiny tweaks I would merge and do a followup to avoid the spread run time overhead :)
[07:12] <mborzecki> mvo: i'll push those fixes and we can let it run once more
[07:12] <mborzecki> and then land :P
[07:12] <mvo> mborzecki: ok
[07:13] <mborzecki> mvo: hm let me check whether the little tweak in the test is actually making anything different
[07:13] <mvo> mborzecki: sounds good
[07:15] <zyga-mbp> good morning mborzecki
[07:15]  * zyga-mbp goes to the office
[07:16] <mborzecki> mvo: yeah, i've restarted the run which shuld be quick now since most jobs were green, and we can land it
[07:16] <mborzecki> zyga: heya
[07:17] <zyga> o/
[07:19] <mborzecki> zyga: so, when is the farewell party? :P
[07:20] <zyga> mborzecki, I can drop for a beer to Frankfurt next year ;)
[07:20] <mborzecki> zyga: sgtm ;) guess many old colleagues would love to have a beer with you
[07:21] <mvo> mborzecki: oh, it was just ubuntu-18.04 failing, that was a misconfigured apt-get afaict, I can force-land this (unless there is more than this one 18.04 error?)
[07:21] <mborzecki> mvo: already restarted
[07:21] <mvo> zyga: +1 for FRA
[07:24]  * mvo nods
[07:24] <mvo> mborzecki: no worries, will be quick :)
[07:45] <mup> PR snapd#9565 closed: overlord/devicestate: bind mount ubuntu-save under /var/lib/snapd/save on startup <Run nested> <UC20> <Created by bboozzoo> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9565>
[07:57] <mborzecki> brb, graphics corruption on 5.9.1 strikes again
[08:00] <mborzecki> re
[08:02] <zyga> mborzecki, did you consider reverting to an older kernel?
[08:03] <mborzecki> zyga: 'the arch way' there is only one kernel version
[08:03] <mvo> mborzecki: welcome back
[08:03] <zyga> mborzecki, nkvd would approve, march forward ;-)
[08:04] <zyga> mborzecki, but not even the previous kernel you mean?
[08:05] <mborzecki> zyga: no, there's just one kernel package version eg. `linux`, you can have other kernels, eg `linux-lts` which is the latest LTS, but who runs that? :P
[08:05] <mborzecki> zyga: iirc manjaro does something funny, they have linux59, linux58 and so on
[08:06] <pstolowski> morning
[08:06] <mborzecki> zyga: on the rpm side, the kernel is also a 'special' package iirc and you can have more than one
[08:06] <zyga> mborzecki, I wish we can do linux snap for ubuntu classic for 22.04
[08:06] <zyga> including a way to pick one of the supported LTS kernels, upstream kernels, etc
[08:06] <zyga> I would *love* that
[08:07] <zyga> even though OMG DRAGONS apply
[08:07] <mborzecki> heh, hwe/upstream kernels would be great
[08:07] <zyga> mborzecki, yeah, I think so, though I don't know how that is implemented
[08:07] <mborzecki> it's a bummer when an lts release does not even boot
[08:07] <zyga> long term unsupported release
[08:10]  * zyga suspends and reboots for OS update
[08:14] <zyga> and back
[08:14] <zyga> I love this part of VMs
[08:14] <zyga> like suspending a lisp image
[08:15] <mup> PR snapd#9578 opened: o/devicestate: unit test tweaks <Simple 😃> <Skip spread> <Created by bboozzoo> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9578>
[08:25] <mup> PR snapd#9579 opened: tests: rename hasHooks to hasInterfaceHooks in the ifacestate tests <Simple 😃> <Created by stolowski> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9579>
[08:35] <mup> PR snapd#9575 closed: testutil, cmd/snap/version: fix misc little errors <Simple 😃> <Test Robustness> <Created by anonymouse64> <Merged by bboozzoo> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9575>
[09:06] <pedronis> mborzecki: hi, I tried to answer your question
[09:08] <mborzecki> pedronis: ok, i got confused with the last commit where IsDirectory() got removed, but didn't notice save avaialble is set to true int he branch where there is no mount
[09:11] <mborzecki> ok, and keypair manager creates the path, so we're not blocked by https://github.com/snapcore/core20/pull/91 being available
[09:11] <mup> PR core20#91: hooks: add /var/lib/snapd/save <Created by bboozzoo> <Merged by xnox> <https://github.com/snapcore/core20/pull/91>
[09:12] <mborzecki> and i clearly need more coffee
[09:13] <pedronis> mborzecki: the IsDirectory was a left over for when your PR was running that code also on UC16/UC18
[09:14] <mborzecki> ah, i see
[09:20] <mup> PR snapd#9566 closed: boot: store the TPM{PolicyAuthKey,LockoutAuth}File in ubuntu-save <Run nested> <UC20> <Created by mvo5> <Merged by bboozzoo> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9566>
[09:28] <zyga> pedronis, I've updated the export manager
[09:29] <zyga> pedronis, some comments are still TODOs on my side but the main change is in place
[09:33] <pedronis> zyga: thanks, special.go is quite simpler now
[09:34] <zyga> pedronis, I think the only thing we need to think about now is the instance case
[09:34] <zyga> pedronis, do we want .../export/snap_key/revision/set
[09:35] <zyga> or .../export/snap/revision_key/set
[09:35] <pedronis> yes
[09:35] <pedronis> ah sorry
[09:35] <pedronis> I mean the former: /export/snap_key/revision
[09:36] <zyga> so the more direct
[09:36] <pedronis> because of where we put current
[09:36] <zyga> sure, I'll do that shortly
[09:36] <pedronis> it's the only reasonable thing
[09:36] <zyga> with the re-mapping layer we will need anyway this is easier and less surprising
[09:36] <zyga> +1
[09:36] <zyga> and even less special cases I think
[09:36] <zyga> I tried adding some more tests but there's at least one missing still
[09:37] <zyga> coverage is good but some specific cases have no explicit tests
[09:37] <zyga> even though it doesn't show up as missing coverage
[09:39] <pedronis> mborzecki: are you looking at #9560 again?
[09:39] <mup> PR #9560: gadget/many: drop usage of gpt attr 59 for indicating creation of partitions <Run nested> <UC20> <Created by anonymouse64> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9560>
[09:39] <mborzecki> pedronis: yeah, it's on my list for today
[09:45] <mup> PR snapd#9580 opened: [RFC] store: download timeout <Bug> <Needs Samuele review> <Created by stolowski> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9580>
[09:45] <pstolowski> pedronis: ^
[09:46] <pedronis> pstolowski: thank you, I don't think I'll get to it before I'm back next week though
[09:47] <pstolowski> pedronis: sure
[10:04] <mvo> pstolowski: 9580 looks pretty neat from a first glance
[10:05] <pstolowski> mvo: thanks, it's tricky stuff, so i'm cautiously optimistic ;) and looking forward to full spread runs
[10:05] <mup> PR snapd#9578 closed: o/devicestate: unit test tweaks <Simple 😃> <Skip spread> <Created by bboozzoo> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9578>
[10:05] <mup> PR snapd#9579 closed: tests: rename hasHooks to hasInterfaceHooks in the ifacestate tests <Simple 😃> <Created by stolowski> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9579>
[10:09] <mvo> pstolowski: yeah, it looks like a winner but I have not really digged deep yet, just a first feeling from reading it :)
[10:12] <pedronis> mvo: I tried to answer you questions in #9573, but I'm probably confused
[10:12] <mup> PR #9573: o/devicetate,dirs: keep device keys in ubuntu-save/save for UC20 <Run nested> <UC20> <Created by pedronis> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9573>
[10:13] <mvo> pedronis: look but it's probably me being confused, I don't/did not had the full picture but let me read first
[10:15] <mvo> pedronis: what's the longer term plan with "saveAvailable"? will we dynamically umount /save or mount it RO or is the fact that we have /save pretty static? sorry, maybe that was the missing piece for me
[10:16] <pedronis> mvo: I don't know, but otoh I expect a limited set of very structured places to care about that flag or final flaggs
[10:16] <pedronis> if we get m.saveAvailable everywhere we are doing it wrong
[10:17] <pedronis> you proposal seems more going into let's ask about save a bit everywhere
[10:17] <mvo> pedronis: ok and it's "static" in the sense that other parts of snapd will not mess with /save (umount,remount) without this part knowing?
[10:17] <pedronis> mvo: yes, if you look at that my other PR, my main idea is that there will be with* helpers for each things that needs touching save
[10:17] <mvo> pedronis: my proposal would use saveAvailable() the same amount of times as we check the boolean, I was mostly wondering if it might be a TOCTOU issue
[10:18] <pedronis> mvo: what I'm confused, is that sounds you expect the flag to change at random places
[10:18] <pedronis> I would expect to have "one" place to do mount unmount, touch flag
[10:18] <mvo> pedronis: not the flag, but potentially the state of /var/lib/snapd/save
[10:18] <mvo> pedronis: aha, ok
[10:19] <pedronis> mvo: but we control the state
[10:19] <mvo> pedronis: then we should be fine. I was worried because we set it three times to true currently but yeah, this makes sense
[10:19] <mvo> pedronis: let me re-read it again with the added context, thanks for explaining this
[10:20] <pedronis> if we are worried about the mount state to change behind our back, and then yes we need to do something else
[10:20] <pedronis> mvo: to be clear I mostly did the flag as a flag atm because it covers: let us return an error if something tries to use a save helper on UC16/UC18
[10:20] <zyga> pedronis, used snap.Revision now, only the instance key remains
[10:20] <pedronis> that's probably clearer in the ollow
[10:20] <pedronis> *follow up
[10:20] <mup> PR snapd#9581 opened: tests/nested/core20/save: check the bind mount and size bump <Run nested> <Simple 😃> <Created by bboozzoo> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9581>
[10:21] <mvo> pedronis: ta
[10:21]  * mvo reads 9574 too
[10:22] <zyga> meh gofmt
[10:22] <pedronis> mvo: but you are probably right that the TODO on saveAvailable is probably too specific
[10:30] <zyga> pedronis, a pass over https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9546 would be good now
[10:31] <mup> PR #9546: overlord: add inert export manager <Created by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9546>
[10:31] <zyga> I only want to add more tests
[10:31] <zyga> and there's the question of ErrNoState and not returning that in a specific case that I think is okay but you should respond to that point explicitly
[10:37] <pstolowski> abeato: hey, maybe you have thoughts about https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9580#discussion_r514990758 ? this PR introduces download timeout and as is, it requires average speed of 256 bytes/sec, measured over 5-minute time windows
[10:37] <mup> PR #9580: [RFC] store: download timeout <Bug> <Needs Samuele review> <Created by stolowski> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9580>
[10:48] <abeato> pstolowski, I've not followed the bug too much tbh, but sometimes they have cellular connections that might dropt and could cause this sort of problem
[10:49] <pstolowski> abeato: ok, good to know. do you have any thoughts about realistic throughputs from the field?
[10:50] <pedronis> zyga: I did another pass
[10:50] <abeato> pstolowski, don't know the throughput, but something that can happen very realistically is that suddenly the modem is not able to rx/tx packets anymore but it won't drop the connection immediately. Effectively that means that suddenly you get zero bandwidth
[10:50] <pedronis> zyga: and answered your question
[10:51] <abeato> and it can take a long time until something puts the interface down...
[10:52] <pstolowski> abeato: right, the explains the issue i'm trying to fix
[10:52] <zyga> thanks, looking
[10:52] <abeato> pstolowski, so, the safeguard you are implementing seems to me like a very good thing to have
[10:52] <abeato> pstolowski, and not only for this customer
[10:53] <pstolowski> abeato: yes, we have seen it once on desktop
[10:53] <pstolowski> abeato: we just need to be careful no to go overboard with this
[10:54] <abeato> pstolowski, right - also I think cellular is usually the hardest case, where you can have more issues
[10:55] <abeato> pstolowski, which is of course a quite frequent setup in IoT
[11:05] <pedronis> mborzecki: fsck-on-boot failed here:  https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9573/checks?check_run_id=1331162810 don't think is related to the PR but anyway annoying
[11:05] <mup> PR #9573: o/devicetate,dirs: keep device keys in ubuntu-save/save for UC20 <Run nested> <UC20> <Created by pedronis> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9573>
[11:05] <pedronis> mborzecki: on 18.04
[11:07] <mborzecki> hmm `umount: /boot/grub: target is busy`
[11:07] <mborzecki> maybe snapd was writing something there?
[11:15] <zyga> pedronis, updated some, replied to others
[11:16] <pedronis> zyga: I re-replied
[11:16] <zyga> oh that was quick :)
[11:16] <pedronis> mborzecki: mvo: I'll force merge 9573, I'll work some tweaks in 74
[11:16] <mborzecki> ok
[11:17] <mvo> pedronis: ta
[11:17] <mvo> pedronis: https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9573#discussion_r515005938 would be nice to get a yes/no or followup :)
[11:17] <mup> PR #9573: o/devicetate,dirs: keep device keys in ubuntu-save/save for UC20 <Run nested> <UC20> <Created by pedronis> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9573>
[11:17] <mborzecki> ok
[11:19] <pedronis> mvo: I answered to it
[11:19] <mvo> ta
[11:21] <pedronis> mvo: core20 will ship with /save precreated
[11:21] <mup> PR snapd#9573 closed: o/devicetate,dirs: keep device keys in ubuntu-save/save for UC20 <Run nested> <UC20> <Created by pedronis> <Merged by pedronis> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9573>
[11:21] <pedronis> right now it works anyway because a couple of path will auto-create it anyway
[11:21] <mvo> pedronis: sorry, one more question - when you write "
[11:21] <mvo> in the final world it will always come from core20 itself" do you mean the core20 snap? asking because this is on the writable partition
[11:21] <pedronis> yes, the core20 snap
[11:21] <mvo> ok
[11:22] <pedronis> mvo: core18 and core20 come with a bunch of defined dirs in /var/lib/snapd
[11:22] <pedronis> mborzecki has a PR to do add /save to core20
[11:22] <pedronis> I think it was even merged
[11:22] <pedronis> not sure if it's on some channel yet or not though
[11:23] <mvo> pedronis: ok, then we are good. thanks
[11:25] <zyga> hmmm
[11:25] <zyga> I wonder if there's a subtle mistake in this logic
[11:26] <zyga> snapstate.CurrentInfo requires the snap to have a current revision
[11:26] <pedronis> that's correct
[11:26] <pedronis> snaps always have a current revision
[11:26] <zyga> I check for NotInstalledError
[11:26] <pedronis> or they are not installed
[11:26] <zyga> so perhaps that's fine
[11:26] <pedronis> they might not be active though
[11:27] <zyga> I was wondering if this worked because we are not hitting the path for snapd in practice
[11:27] <pedronis> being active and having a current revision is orthogonal
[11:27] <pedronis> if something is inactive
[11:27] <zyga> ah, I didn't realize this, that's much better then
[11:27] <pedronis> then the curren revision is the last active revision
[11:27] <zyga> because it has to work for inactive case as well
[11:27] <zyga> that's okay then
[11:27] <mborzecki> pedronis: yes, it was merged, but the latest edge is from 10.27, so still without the change
[11:31] <zyga> pedronis, pushed again
[11:32] <zyga> I'll rebase the full branch on this and see if everything passes
[11:33] <pedronis> zyga: the helper to remove the full export/snap is the rest? for remove?
[11:34] <pedronis> *is in the rest
[11:34] <zyga> pedronis, hmm, sorry, which helper exactly?
[11:34] <zyga> pedronis, all of the export manager is in in the smaller PR
[11:35] <pedronis> zyga: when we remove a snap we need to remove the export/snap dir? unlink just remove a version? not current for example
[11:35] <zyga> the unexport-content task removes that
[11:35] <zyga> it is in this branch, but it is not used until the full branch
[11:36] <zyga> the helper to remove the content is here as well, we simply remove the manifest serialized in the state IIRC
[11:36] <pedronis> I'm probably confused
[11:36] <pedronis> there is something wrong or I'm misunderstanding
[11:36] <zyga> the function that removes files for a given manifest is removeExportedFiles
[11:36] <zyga> it is called from doUnexportContent
[11:37] <zyga> which is the handler for unexport-content task
[11:37] <zyga> is that what you were expecting?
[11:38] <zyga> good morning ijohnson
[11:39] <pedronis> zyga: I think it depens on order of things I suppose
[11:40] <pedronis> I think the bits are there
[11:40] <pedronis> zyga: I suppose the issue, is that actual I don't when we unexport content, we do it after we switched it, right?
[11:40] <zyga> in the sense of task ordering, the remove-content runs after unlink-snap, ensuring we, by that time, have picked a new current symlink (or removed it)
[11:40] <pedronis> *actually I don't know
[11:41] <zyga> rigth
[11:41] <zyga> *right
[11:41] <zyga> all content with corresponding snaps is on disk
[11:41] <pedronis> then I think this should work
[11:41] <zyga> we rewrite the current symlink before we remove the content
[11:41]  * pedronis lunch
[11:41] <zyga> I'll break for coffee while tests run
[11:46] <mup> PR snapd#9582 opened: [RFC] gadget/quantity: introduce a new package that captures quantities  <Simple 😃> <Created by bboozzoo> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9582>
[12:04] <zyga> hey cachio
[12:04] <cachio> zyga, hey
[12:04] <zyga> cachio, my last day :)
[12:05] <zyga> can I review anything for you?
[12:05] <cachio> zyga, yes, I know :(
[12:05] <cachio> zyga, #9524
[12:06] <mup> PR #9524: tests: new boot state tool <Created by sergiocazzolato> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9524>
[12:06] <cachio> that one that you already started
[12:06] <zyga> sure, let me look
[12:06] <cachio> thanks
[12:14] <mup> PR snapcraft#3345 opened: project_loader, formatting_utils: take empty env values into account <Created by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/3345>
[12:25] <zyga> cachio, https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9524#pullrequestreview-520607334
[12:25] <mup> PR #9524: tests: new boot state tool <Created by sergiocazzolato> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9524>
[12:26] <cachio> zyga, looking
[12:31] <mup> PR snapd#9583 opened: features: enable classic-preserves-xdg-runtime-dir <Created by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9583>
[12:37] <zyga> brb
[12:46] <dot-tobias> ogra: Do you have a tip how I can improve build time for the WPE kiosk snap on ARM? Building on a Pi 4 with 4GB RAM in an LXD container fails most of the time (“unexpected EOF”), I guess its too resource-intensive. Launchpad works, but aborts after ~6 hours because of https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/1885164 (reported by cjp256). Next escalation step would be to attempt cross-compilation …
[12:46] <mup> Bug #1885164: snap builds: network access timeout <build-infrastructure> <buildfarm> <lp-snappy> <Launchpad itself:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1885164>
[12:47] <ogra> dot-tobias, add swap ?
[12:47] <zyga> buy 8GB riscv board and cross-compile (/me runs)
[12:53] <ogra> haha
[12:53] <dot-tobias> ogra: That is … something I completely overlooked 🙈
[12:55] <ogra> dot-tobias, also, make sure your storage pool is large enough to write all temporary files during build ... this error sounds more like there isnt enough disk space ...
[12:55] <dot-tobias> zyga: Nice, but still would require to read up quite a bit on cross compiling to do it right and not sink in more days than necessary 😅 <joke>I just came here to package a web app!</joke> 😄
[12:57] <dot-tobias> ogra: I'm using the “dir” storage, followed your blog article https://ograblog.wordpress.com/2020/07/10/building-snap-packages-on-ubuntu-core/ → default lxd snap configuration. I thought that meant it can use 100% of the host resources, which is a 64GB SD card
[12:59] <cachio> zyga, #9524 updated, thanks for the review
[12:59] <mup> PR #9524: tests: new boot state tool <Created by sergiocazzolato> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9524>
[12:59] <ogra> ah, that might be fine then ...
[12:59] <zyga> cachio, looking
[13:02] <zyga> cachio, +1
[13:02] <cachio> tx
[13:02] <zyga> cachio, I'd call the command functions cmd_ ... so that they stand out a little bit more but meh :)
[13:02] <zyga> it's internal now
[13:02] <zyga> part of the benefits of having programs
[13:03] <cachio> hehe
[13:06] <zyga> mborzecki, could you help me with the selinux denial in https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9530/ please?
[13:06] <mup> PR #9530: interfaces: share /tmp/.X11-unix/ from host or provider <Needs security review> <Squash-merge> <⚠ Critical> <⛔ Blocked> <Created by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9530>
[13:07] <zyga> specifically in centos7 only
[13:09] <mborzecki> zyga: sure, let me see
[13:12] <pedronis> mborzecki: I'm looking at Ian RFC PR, and now I'm very confused,  where do we mount save in initramfs?  we mount to /run/mnt/ubuntu-save, right?
[13:12] <mborzecki> yes
[13:15] <zyga> I'll pick up https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9204
[13:15] <mup> PR #9204: sandbox: track applications unconditionally <Created by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9204>
[13:16] <pedronis> ijohnson: your RFC PR seems quite confused about the 2nd argument to maybeMountSave
[13:18] <ijohnson> pedronis: in meeting let's talk in our meeting later
[13:18] <niemeyer> / ExecutableExists returns whether there an exists an executable with the given name somewhere on $PATH.
[13:18] <niemeyer> :P
[13:20] <zyga> niemeyer, that an an an mistake :D
[13:24] <pedronis> zyga: well the doc document it that way, so I suppose it was intentional
[13:24] <zyga> lol
[13:24] <zyga>     # we are expecting the test to fail on a cgroup v2 system
[13:24] <pedronis> it's very oddly placed though
[13:24] <zyga> this is why the xdg-settings test was failing :)
[13:25] <zyga> it's fixed now
[13:25] <zyga> pedronis, "there an exists" => "there exists" perhaps
[13:25] <pedronis> ah, that as well
[13:26] <pedronis> my point is that it's in stat.go
[13:26] <zyga> I only meant the typo
[13:27] <pedronis> I see, I thought the question was more that FileExists and ExecutableExits are very different beasts similarly named
[13:28] <zyga> mborzecki, there's some SNAFU in centos-7 now
[13:28] <zyga> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/6GyXX4FWZM/
[13:29] <zyga> that is from https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9546/checks?check_run_id=1331732115
[13:29] <mup> PR #9546: overlord: add inert export manager <Created by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9546>
[13:29] <zyga> there's no selinux-policy-base 3.13.1-268
[13:29] <zyga> archive skew?
[13:40] <zyga> mborzecki, woot, https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9204 should now pass
[13:40] <mup> PR #9204: sandbox: track applications unconditionally <Created by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9204>
[13:40] <zyga> have a look at the last patch, it's pretty much what was expected
[13:41] <zyga> I didn't notice this part of the test before, how silly of me
[13:43] <zyga> jamesh, note that https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9204 tweaks the set of allowed dbus-daemon processes (in the invariant checker), IIRC one of your pull requests also did something similar
[13:43] <mup> PR #9204: sandbox: track applications unconditionally <Created by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9204>
[13:43] <mborzecki> zyga: sorry, didn't look, got distracted doing reviews
[13:43] <zyga> mborzecki, no worries
[13:43] <mborzecki> zyga: but it looks like the epel package was built against a newer selinux-policy than is availble in centos repos
[13:44] <mborzecki> zyga: keep in mind that centos is suppsod to sync from rhel and rebuild packages, although it's unclear how laggy that process is (apparently quite laggy)
[13:44] <mborzecki> and epel packages are built against rhel :P
[13:46] <zyga-mbp> they should have called it EEL packages, enterprise extras for linux ;-)
[13:54] <zyga> one more patch for today https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9584
[13:54] <mup> PR #9584: tests: fix rare interaction of tests.session and specific tests <Test Robustness> <Created by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9584>
[13:56] <mup> PR snapd#9584 opened: tests: fix rare interaction of tests.session and specific tests <Test Robustness> <Created by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9584>
[14:32] <mup> PR snapd#9581 closed: tests/nested/core20/save: check the bind mount and size bump <Run nested> <Simple 😃> <Created by bboozzoo> <Merged by bboozzoo> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9581>
[14:52] <zyga-mbp> I'll join my last tgif early, if you want to talk about anything I'm there
[15:01] <mvo> zyga-mbp: still in a meeting :(
[15:12] <mup> PR snapd#9585 opened: interfaces/builtin: Add LVM interfaces <Created by fnordahl> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9585>
[15:23] <zyga> pstolowski, https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/drivers/install/authenticode
[15:23] <zyga> that's what I thought about but that's for drivers
[15:42] <pedronis> mvo: mborzecki: ijohnson: I defconflicted and updated #9574
[15:42] <mup> PR #9574: o/devicestate,a/sysdb: make a backup of the device serial to save <Run nested> <UC20> <Created by pedronis> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9574>
[15:52] <mvo> pedronis: thank you!
[15:53] <ijohnson> pedronis: ack will take another look
[15:55] <zyga-mbp> pedronis if you do another pass over export manager I can make more progress on this last day, if not that's fine as well and I fully understand
[15:59]  * cachio lunch
[16:40] <ogra> xnox, ijohnson perhaps one of you can point this guy to the right place to modify the kernel cmdline in UC20 (do we have any docs how to do this, given thats rather essential at times to initialize peripherials etc) https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/configure-grub-with-ubuntu-core-20/20835
[16:41] <ijohnson> ogra: yeah I will respond, it's sad and messy atm if they want fde
[16:41] <ijohnson> and actually even if they don't want fde it's still sad and messy
[16:41] <ogra> oh my
[16:41] <ogra> we should just have switched everything to u-oot 😛
[16:42] <ogra> *u-boot
[16:42] <ogra> (or port ondra's LK stuff to x86 !!)
[16:42] <ijohnson> we should chain load u-boot to grub to lk back to grub and then throw in the pi bootloader just for fun at the end
[16:43] <ogra> !
[16:55] <mvo> ijohnson: if you could review 9574 at some point today, that woudl rock
[16:55] <ijohnson> mvo: sure
[16:55] <mvo> ijohnson: thank you!
[16:56]  * mvo if off for dinner and one last time hockey before all is shut down
[16:56] <ijohnson> mvo: also I just reviewed #9555
[16:56] <mup> PR #9555: asserts: implement "storage-safety" in uc20 model assertion <Skip spread> <UC20> <Created by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9555>
[16:56] <ijohnson> a couple of comments for you but nothing major hopefully
[16:56] <ijohnson> I like the prefer-unencrypted option now though, thanks for getting that addressed
[17:14]  * cachio afk -> errands
[18:10] <zyga> thanks ijohnson
[18:10] <zyga> I was surprised by the volume of red there
[18:10] <zyga> and I realized I force-pushed an earlier version
[18:11] <zyga> laptop repo vs desktop repo
[18:11] <ijohnson> ah
[18:11] <ijohnson> I've done that kind of error before :-)
[18:12]  * zyga goes afk for the evening
[18:12] <zyga> ijohnson, star trek discovery day :D
[18:12] <zyga> to boldly reherse the same old story with new cast and different starship design
[18:12] <zyga> (spoken with honest trailers voice)
[18:12] <ijohnson> hahahahaha
[20:23] <mup> PR snapd#9583 closed: features: enable classic-preserves-xdg-runtime-dir <Created by zyga> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9583>
[20:23] <mup> PR snapd#9584 closed: tests: fix rare interaction of tests.session and specific tests <Test Robustness> <Created by zyga> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9584>
[21:46] <mup> PR snapcraft#3346 opened: Fix rosdep ROS_PYTHON_VERSION <Created by artivis> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/3346>


 @F_P_S [Hi. I've been tinkering with my UT tablet trying to set up an VPN client and I f …], it will probably get updated in the 20.04 transition but there are still a few months work left to do
 @theare27 [Is there a dedicated group for Teleports guys? Having major issues with it all o …], the developer is probably asleep atm, it is 2 AM at over there
 @theare27 [Always been functional for me until today. Now won,t load any chat groups. Tried …], Sadly it is something that happens to few users and we didn't managed to fix it yet... I don't know if there is a workaround, @Flohack ?
[06:09] <ubptgbot> <Paul BLAYLOCK> I got an issue with my Sony Xperia Performance X. The ringtone won't sound when I receive a call. I installed Ubuntu in December and it was all good. Until a few weeks ago. Now the ringtone is gone. The phone vibrates. I get notification sound for texts etc. I can even hear the ringtone when when I select a new tone in settings, so
[06:09] <ubptgbot> it isn't a hardware issue. It had an Ubuntu update a few weeks ago and I think that's when the problem started. My OS is: Ubuntu OTA-17. The phone definitely isn't on silent mode !! And I have done a Full Reset - but the ringtone is still gone. I'd really appreciate any help guys
 @theare27 [Always been functional for me until today. Now won,t load any chat groups. Tried …], Can you check if you have enough free space? Andhow did you clear data?
 @theare27 [Always been functional for me until today. Now won,t load any chat groups. Tried …], Teleports?
 @Flohack [Can you check if you have enough free space? Andhow did you clear data?], I have tried:
 Trimming my group count, it sometimes struggles with that.
 Clearing all caches with Tweak Tool
 Uninstalling
 Reinstalling
 Still the same. It just started out of nowhere. It was perfectly fine until half way through yesterday.
[07:15] <ubptgbot> Aché was added by: Aché
 hey everyone where can i talk about off topic
 another telegram group :)
 Does UT support a mobile phones without front cameras?
 @H@ñß9ñ [hey everyone where can i talk about off topic], https://t.me/UBportsOF
 thnks
 @ItoRimai [Does UT support a mobile phones without front cameras?], i think if you program it to work
[08:50] <ubptgbot> KelvinCoder was added by: KelvinCoder
 @theare27 [I have tried:], Which device is it? And can you try to obtain a log file?
 @alera_on [Do you know anyone who speaks Spanish, English, Portuguese fluently?], You mean all three fluently? We have language groups for Portuguese and Spanish
 After clearing the caches did you have to register again your account?
 @ItoRimai [Does UT support a mobile phones without front cameras?], In principle no problem but are there such things?
[09:43] <ubptgbot> Alexsandrmiller was added by: Alexsandrmiller
 When I dismantle some Android 6 devices, removing the front camera will cause the problem of unreadable
 The reason is unknown, but it won't be possible to replace other versions of Android. So I wonder if UT will be similar to devices that can't normally adapt to devices without front camera
 Well devices with a triple camera are supported by UT (for one camera only), so UT is not so fussy about hardware. You are talking about very old phones though. That may be a barrier. The focus is on Android 9
 @Flohack [Which device is it? And can you try to obtain a log file?], OnePlus One. It's strangely started working again now
 yay, mp4 youtube playback very smooth!
 (Photo, 2220x1080) https://irc.ubports.com/F9UbQPd0.png
 going to try and push a test soon :)
 @mateosalta [going to try and push a test soon :)], Explain?
 instead of vp8/vp9
 i made it play mp4 - which works better usually on mobile devices :)
 (Sticker, 512x512) https://irc.ubports.com/V5E75axh.webp
 frame drop comparison:
 (Photo, 2220x1080) https://irc.ubports.com/uf22fVGT.png
 both 720p vp9 was dropping over half
 mp4 just like 3%
 where's UT　app DEV docs?
[10:41] <ubptgbot> <Steve Kueffer> @Steve Kueffer [Dear all, … Rudi and Me are pleased to announce that the Vollaphone is now the fi …], Due to some issues & instabilities. The publication of the new Anbox download instructions has been temporarily closed. The specialists are working on the difficulties to be solved so that you can benefit from a usable version soon.
[10:41] <ubptgbot>  Thank you for your understanding and support. Rudi & Steve
 @ItoRimai [where's UT　app DEV docs?], I added you to Dev group
 thanks
 @Steve Kueffer [Due to some issues & instabilities. The publication of the new Anbox download in …], Thanks a lot for your hard work.
 if anyone wants to test mp4 on youtube: https://open-store.io/app/youtube-web-dev.mateo-salta
 hopefully it works on most devices?
 videos work fine on yt site on morph
 not too good on most devices
 i have a oneplus 3t and i have yet to encounter issues, i will report back if i do
 audio quality is not great though
 that is a really nice device :)
 Thank you :)
[12:21] <ubptgbot> MR was added by: MR
 @mateosalta [if anyone wants to test mp4 on youtube: https://open-store.io/app/youtube-web-de …], what devices are known to be slow and which resolution?
 i thought there's only `avc` and `vp9`, those aee offered by SnartTubeNext 😄
 @Javacookies [what devices are known to be slow and which resolution?], I think nexus 5 was not so good
 maybe the e4.5?
 my tablet only let's me choose up to 720p 🙁
 yeah, limitation of mp4
 but on phones is nice
 @mateosalta [if anyone wants to test mp4 on youtube: https://open-store.io/app/youtube-web-de …], Nice work.  Doesn't appear to work with videos that were uploaded less recently (looks like anything recent within the last 6-9 months is OK).
 yeah, some error out as not supported
[14:02] <ubptgbot> <Николайка Королёв> @Fuseteam [those commands should make the links, they do not exist out of the box], I entered them in the terminal-the links did not appear anywhere.
 I'm wondering if the user agent i used would allow logins with the user accounts, it gave an old design :)
 @mateosalta [yeah, some error out as not supported], You may want to mention that in the OpenStore page, in order to avoid unnecessary negative reviews!
 well it's a dev channel :P
 @mateosalta [yeah, some error out as not supported], [Edit] You may want to mention that in the OpenStore page, in order to avoid unnecessary negative reviews!  I.e. `Known issues...`.
 @Николайка Королёв [I entered them in the terminal-the links did not appear anywhere.], Did you get any errors when you ran those commands? Where did you check?
 @mateosalta [well it's a dev channel :P], Ah, OK then.  Actually, the actual name in the launcher could reflect that as well?
 I could, it is confusing if you have both installed
 @mateosalta [well it's a dev channel :P], [Edit] Ah, OK then.  Actually, the app's name in the launcher could reflect that as well?
 @mateosalta [I could, it is confusing if you have both installed], Exactly.
[14:07] <ubptgbot> <Николайка Королёв> @Fuseteam [hi with the coming ota 16 you no longer need to all that, you'll only need one c …], of course, I previously entered anbox-tool install - I already launched whatsapp on N5, and I can't exchange with the anbox storage due to the lack of links after entering commands to create them. OTA-16 is installed.
 i found the samsung tv user agent too, this will be fun
 @imraniqbal [You may want to mention that in the OpenStore page, in order to avoid unnecessar …], nobody reads that 😛
 @mateosalta [i found the samsung tv user agent too, this will be fun], smartyoutubetv has various TV user agents 😉
[14:08] <ubptgbot> <Николайка Королёв> @Fuseteam [Did you get any errors when you ran those commands? Where did you check?], no, they complete without errors. If you enter it again, it says that the links already exist.  If you enter it again, it says that the links …], They exist in your folders
 Like pictures will have a folder call android
 [Edit] Like pictures will have a directory call android, that's your link
 i remember back in the Ubuntu store days, the usual setup is you have a stable release of your app for free then a paid/donation version that gets faster updates … i got a few bucks in different currencies for Talaan 😄
[14:13] <ubptgbot> <Николайка Королёв> (Photo, 720x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/FHSLM1Pq.png Look for yourself - the phone does not display them, but if you connect via SSH, then I can see them from the PC, but they are not clickable.
[14:13] <ubptgbot> <Николайка Королёв> (Photo, 720x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/KcEDU0l1.png
 (Photo, 1080x1920) https://irc.ubports.com/FaTCzNeI.png I still can't get over this review
[14:14] <ubptgbot> <Николайка Королёв> (Photo, 800x237) https://irc.ubports.com/Lea2ZR6S.png
 @Николайка Королёв [<reply to media>], Looks like something is wrong with the link then
[14:15] <ubptgbot> <Николайка Королёв> Yes, but what exactly...
 Try this in the terminal: `ll Pictures`
 [Edit] Try this in the terminal: `ll Pictures|grep android`
[14:20] <ubptgbot> <Николайка Королёв> (Photo, 720x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/d0wREKy0.png
 (Document) https://irc.ubports.com/gFRAk0Dp.null
 youtube tv interface could be intresting
 doesn't scroll? cuts off edges
[14:22] <ubptgbot> Mixolh was added by: Mixolh
[14:23] <ubptgbot> <Николайка Королёв> @Fuseteam [Try this in the terminal: ll Pictures|grep android], permission issues, right?
[14:24] <ubptgbot> <Николайка Королёв> when I first installed anbox, there were no links either - I entered commands to create them separately, and they required sudo.
 @ItoRimai [another telegram group :)], yeah, there are about 20-30 ubports groups 😉
 @Николайка Королёв [<reply to media>], Looks the pictures folder doesn't exist in anbox
 Can you verify the path
 @mateosalta [doesn't scroll? cuts off edges], yeah, only usable with a keyboard or remote
 sounds useful for plugging into a tv :p
 might be nice for tablet connected to tv
 wonder if generic bt gamepad remote will work
 as long as the gamepad has keyboard mode … standard input is wonky on UT … left analog moves the mouse cursor 😆
 (Sticker, 512x512) https://irc.ubports.com/DvN4pXdu.webp
 @Javacookies [as long as the gamepad has keyboard mode … standard input is wonky on UT … left anal …], intresting
 wonder if it plays the movies, or if that is widevine
 it brought up a qr code, i will have to try and scale to see what happens
 you mean the TV UI?
 @mateosalta [wonder if it plays the movies, or if that is widevine], ahhh, you mean movie rentals?
 @Javacookies [ahhh, you mean movie rentals?], yeah, some are 'free to play' or if you bought
 preaty sure through widevine
 Ya'll for porting with halium 9 would using Lineage OS 17 work? Because I cannot find 16 for my device
 @Fuseteam [<reply to media>], probally because of online accounts for the calender i dont think the meant email
 which without that deb wasnt working
 @imraniqbal [Nice work.  Doesn't appear to work with videos that were uploaded less recently …], oh long videos are out  and game streams
 is there a way to run ut and lineage using multi rom or something?
 should be much easier to use different devices for them
[17:09] <ubptgbot> <Николайка Королёв> @Fuseteam [Looks the pictures folder doesn't exist in anbox], Up to home/phablet/anbox-data/data/ I can track it, and then " access denied"
 @Sparky3K [is there a way to run ut and lineage using multi rom or something?], Not in a supported way currently.  There is work ongoing to allow Halium 9 devices to have a Lineage 17 instance run on top of UT in an Anbox.container though that is very promisng though. https://youtu.be/-mDiOrrFCgU
 Guys since my device (Ginkgo) doesn't support Lineage 16.0 how do I port to my phone
 Using Halium 9
 ah, what is youtube doing?
 (Photo, 1080x2220) https://irc.ubports.com/f7YMEpYN.png
 they are putting a image over saved streams...
 it sill plays, strange, now i have to try and remove that with css, so many things i watch were streams to start
 @Николайка Королёв [Up to home/phablet/anbox-data/data/ I can track it, and then " access denied"], use `sudo` track it further
 @mateosalta [probally because of online accounts for the calender i dont think the meant emai …], oh that could make sense
 @Emily [Guys since my device (Ginkgo) doesn't support Lineage 16.0 how do I port to my p …], why don't you ask in @halium, most porters are active there
 (Photo, 1080x2340) https://irc.ubports.com/GXwy0lEn.png
 @Emily [Guys since my device (Ginkgo) doesn't support Lineage 16.0 how do I port to my p …], check my ping from yesterday
 @Fuseteam [why don't you ask in @halium, most porters are active there], Thank you
 does anyone hav the same with camera? it is loading, loading and loading and that's all
 *have
 and better @ubports_porting
 aw this is bad
 (Photo, 1080x2220) https://irc.ubports.com/WCo2QdcO.png
 @AgnieszKa17 [does anyone hav the same with camera? it is loading, loading and loading and tha …], 3t?
 @mateosalta [3t?], I am not sure what 3t means
 I have ota 16 (ota 17) on Redmi Note 7
 @mateosalta [<reply to media>], Is this a native YT Client or web app?
 webapp
 same in browser...
 (Photo, 1080x2220) https://irc.ubports.com/cMo3BTRx.png
 Strange, works here
 on dev i think?
 @fredldotme [Strange, works here], it waits like 3 seconds then puts it up
 If y'all can rate ubuntu touch, how much would you rate it out of 10?
 @snepdev [If y'all can rate ubuntu touch, how much would you rate it out of 10?], 11
 At least 😄  12 if porting was easier
 My phone is still on development so I can't say
 @AgnieszKa17 [I have ota 16 (ota 17) on Redmi Note 7], Ota17 on note 7?
 How is it
 @Flohack [11], :)
 @fredldotme [Strange, works here], mh, if i refresh it goes away
 very strange
 Old tab? Lol
 nah, only if i let the mute stay up past 3 seconds...
 @MuhammedSabbagh [Ota17 on note 7?], I can something like this, ota 16 (ota 17)
 (Photo, 1080x386) https://irc.ubports.com/pEOgksLA.png
 (Photo, 1080x373) https://irc.ubports.com/B88GZF2V.png
 if this mans ota 17, than it looks like this 🤔
 *means
 Ubuntu 16.04 and OTA-17. So that is indeed OTA 17, not 16.
 In other words, the latest stable version of Ubuntu Touch.
 @Flohack [11], I sense bias
 Asking how much people like Ubuntu Touch in a chatroom devoted to Ubuntu Touch might be a little short sighted :P
 XD
 I like it enough to use it on my only phone. That means I like it above everything else.
 @UniversalSuperBox [Asking how much people like Ubuntu Touch in a chatroom devoted to Ubuntu Touch m …], What if I asked math group 179 senior high schoolers in it along with teacher
 That would be so blind ngl
 @AgnieszKa17 [*means], How does it perform?
 @MuhammedSabbagh [How does it perform?], It works very good, only Camera and Weather apps keeps loading with not end visible. Phone calls are as they were, text messages, Telegram and Axolotl work as they should. Morph and clock the same.
 So it's much better than ota 16 right?
 @AgnieszKa17 [It works very good, only Camera and Weather apps keeps loading with not end visi …], Are the navigation gestures working probably too?
 @MuhammedSabbagh [So it's much better than ota 16 right?], it's smooth, when camera will load it would be better as a full system for sure, I wonder if I should uninstall it and install again to get it start working
 And you are daily drivering it now?
 @MuhammedSabbagh [Are the navigation gestures working probably too?], yes, both on the screen and the ones like moving the phone in Tux Race
 @MuhammedSabbagh [And you are daily drivering it now?], yes, this is my daily driver currently
 Wow nice
 Last time on ota 16 the experience was pretty poor and gestures were buggy  … Might go back to UT I think
 (Photo, 1080x2340) https://irc.ubports.com/deuodPIf.png
 I had system update suggested and agreed to continue
 Since when you were in UT btw
 since around 20 Dec 2020, however with breaks like 1 month UT 2nd android and again back to UT, currently I switched for longer (I convinced my friends and family that phone calls ok at whatever time, but voice calls on Telegram and Signal only when I am around my laptop) 😄 and how about you?
 Hold on a min
 All that on lavender?
 I managed to stay on it for 15 hour
 yes, all on Redmi Note 7
 Well then guess I might try it one more timw
 I am going to scream
 Every kernal I find for my device that's pie, doesn't have manifest.xml
 @mintphin just out of curiosity, what's the current state of the Mi A3 port? Forum thread seems pretty dead and nobody has submitted detailed status info to the new devices page yet
 @AgnieszKa17 [It works very good, only Camera and Weather apps keeps loading with not end visi …], Does Morph have hardware acceleration in RN7? I guess not, but I'm curious, does RN7 have bugs in UT? Even if Morph doesn't have hardware acceleration, the videos in pages like YouTube plays at least without lag? I'm very interested in that de
[20:04] <ubptgbot> vice for my daily driver, currently I have a OnePlus One
[20:07] <ubptgbot> <Steve Kueffer> @LGeek [Does Morph have hardware acceleration in RN7? I guess not, but I'm curious, does …], You can take a look at: … https://devices.ubuntu-touch.io/device/lavender/ … https://forums.ubports.com/topic/6026/redmi-note-7-state-of-play
 @LGeek [Does Morph have hardware acceleration in RN7? I guess not, but I'm curious, does …], it used to be possible to enable Marius experimental branch on Android 9+ devices for browser engine acceleration
 @Follpvosten [@mintphin just out of curiosity, what's the current state of the Mi A3 port? For …], Only bug is the fingerprint scanner.
 Everything else is working.
 it's still not merged because it broke some other devices
 @mintphin [Only bug is the fingerprint scanner.], I guess you haven't tried daily driving device for a while then :)
 @NotKit [I guess you haven't tried daily driving device for a while then :)], I actually did.
 @LGeek [Does Morph have hardware acceleration in RN7? I guess not, but I'm curious, does …], To be honest RN7 is the only phone with UT that I have ever used, so it is hard to compare with other UT devices to me from my practice. However when it comes to video on YT it works normally, the same as on laptop or android, I noticed no lag
[20:10] <ubptgbot> s in it 😄 When it comes to hardware acceleration I am not sure what it is in practice 😅 but Morph itself works smoothly and fast, I used it for reading and watching pictures and for Anki due to lack of Anki app
 And that's the only bug I found myself.
 because we commonly have lots of annoying things like "cellular network lost after a week of use" in general
 @NotKit [because we commonly have lots of annoying things like "cellular network lost aft …], I didn't have that issue tho.
 I used it for months and it still worked.
 hm, why it's still not in the installer though? I think it's on OTA server
 i haven't written the manifest for the installer yet
 cuz i'm daily driving a10 now
 @AgnieszKa17 [To be honest RN7 is the only phone with UT that I have ever used, so it is hard …], Thank you for the answer, I need to try for myself, I suppose I have to buy an used RN7
[20:13] <ubptgbot> <Steve Kueffer> @LGeek [Thank you for the answer, I need to try for myself, I suppose I have to buy an u …], Indeed, and you can find one for about 150$ on chinese sellers main apps...
 @Steve Kueffer [You can take a look at: … https://devices.ubuntu-touch.io/device/lavender/ … https …], Thank you, I already read the forum, but I'm not very sure to replace my OPO with the RN7, also I'm considered to get an PinePhone, but the shipping to my country takes a lot of time.
[20:38] <ubptgbot> Marcus Fredlund was added by: Marcus Fredlund
 @mintphin [Everything else is working.], Thanks!
 @LGeek [Thank you, I already read the forum, but I'm not very sure to replace my OPO wit …], Pinephone at the moment is quite experimental. If you want a daily driver it is not the best choice right now
 @LGeek [Thank you, I already read the forum, but I'm not very sure to replace my OPO wit …], Buy either opo or rn7
 These guys are better and mostly cost less
 @Stereofont [Pinephone at the moment is quite experimental. If you want a daily driver it is …], thank you, yes, im looking for a daily driver, but AFAIK, Pinephone runs well other distros, not sure if it has bugs on other distros.
 @MuhammedSabbagh [Buy either opo or rn7], i have an OPO, but i want a RN7, it has better camera and screen, but i dont knoe if performance is better
 @MuhammedSabbagh [Buy either opo or rn7], [Edit] i have an OPO, but i want a RN7, it has better camera and screen, but i dont know if performance is better
 As of android it's amazing
 On UT you might find misses here and there
 But it's under 'development' so it's forgivable
 @MuhammedSabbagh [On UT you might find misses here and there], I dont use Android apps, but i have a lot of webapps created with webber, i'm interested in the performance in webpager more that anything else :)
 @MuhammedSabbagh [On UT you might find misses here and there], [Edit] I dont use Android apps, but i have a lot of webapps created with webber, i'm interested in the performance in webpages more that anything else :)
 If u bought a note 7 I strongly recommend you to unlock it and flash a custom ROM to reveal it's actual limits
 @MuhammedSabbagh [If u bought a note 7 I strongly recommend you to unlock it and flash a custom RO …], wrong group I guess :) we care more about a device to run UT than just having some phone
 @MuhammedSabbagh [If u bought a note 7 I strongly recommend you to unlock it and flash a custom RO …], i already tested RN7 because my sister have one with Android, but she does not use UT
 @NotKit [wrong group I guess :) we care more about a device to run UT than just having so …], I see your point
[21:10] <ubptgbot> Sergio_Arze was added by: Sergio_Arze
 You can take a look at: … https://devices.ubuntu-touch.io/device/lavender/ … https://forums.ubports.com/topic/6026/redmi-note-7-state-of-play
 [Edit] If you bought a note 7 I strongly recommend you to unlock it and flash a custom ROM to reveal it's actual limits
 @MuhammedSabbagh [You can take a look at: … https://devices.ubuntu-touch.io/device/lavender/ … https …], i'll read the forum :) thanks
 Anytime
 @NotKit [wrong group I guess :) we care more about a device to run UT than just having so …], What I meant by custom ROM is to know the phone's limits since miui really slow down this thing by fars
 Judging this phone with miui is a true misjudgement
 @MuhammedSabbagh [Judging this phone with miui is a true misjudgement], agreed, but some other Xiaomi phone actually runs better with MIUI, fun case is the Mi A3, performs better using MIUI, but we are here for UT hehe
 @LGeek [agreed, but some other Xiaomi phone actually runs better with MIUI, fun case is …], Mi A3 is android one aka aosp … Ofc it will run better
 But yeah let's keep chat on UT
 @MuhammedSabbagh [Mi A3 is android one aka aosp … Ofc it will run better], Actually it's the opposite, runs better with MIUI than Android One, also I'm interested in UT on Mi A3 because I have one, but there is not much info about it and it is not supported in installer.


[07:15] <jsgotangco> greetings
[07:57] <Liz-away> hello
[08:01] <jsgotangco> hi Liz
[08:05] <Liz> how are you?
[08:05] <jsgotangco> oh im just resting i had a flu for 3 days
[08:06] <Liz> ugh...i havent caught any colds ..yet
[08:07] <Liz> you all better now?
[08:10] <jsgotangco> while i was sick i was trying to translate some wikis to tagalog hehe
[08:14] <Liz> ive fallen behind a little with the documentation..i had to reinstall hoary at one point..then 2 days ago i lost a hard drive when it went kaput on me
[08:14] <jsgotangco> what have you been doing?
[08:16] <Liz> yesterday i wiped my other hdd and reinstall ubuntu back on it
[08:16] <Liz> took the whole day to get it upgraded to hoary and customised etc
[08:17] <Liz> i spent alot of yesterday studying tho
[08:17] <jsgotangco> hmmm i just remembered i have to update my hoary later
[08:17] <jsgotangco> i gotta start fixing for my visa too
[08:21] <froud> African Greetings
[08:21] <jsgotangco> greetings froud
[08:21] <froud> How's everyone this morning
[08:21] <Liz> kia ora froud
[08:21] <jsgotangco> im feeling much better after a flu
[08:21] <Liz> im feeling good too
[08:21] <Liz> tho i didnt have the flu
[08:22] <froud> so jsgotangco has gotten ove rthe flu and Liz has gotten ove rthe loss of her hard drive
[08:22] <Liz> hehe..still mourning its loss
[08:22] <Liz> 60gigs..down the drain
[08:22] <Liz> sgih
[08:22] <Liz> sigh
[08:23] <jsgotangco> which reminds me to backup up my laptop later
[08:24] <froud> well guys we tagged ubuntu-doc 0.4 yesteray
[08:24] <jsgotangco> does it also cover kubuntu doc?
[08:24] <Liz> yay
[08:24] <Liz> congratulations froud
[08:24] <Liz> i know everyones worked hard to get it done
[08:25] <Liz> i must svn all those things again too
[08:25] <jsgotangco> same here
[08:26] <froud> anyone  seen user docs for poxml
[08:28] <Liz> whats poxml?
[08:30] <froud> xml2po
[08:30] <froud> covert xml to pot and po to xml
[08:30] <froud> for translations
[08:30] <Liz> ahh..
[08:30] <Liz> hadnt seen it
[08:31] <jsgotangco> you know i get some emails here asking for help on translating and dont know where to start i point them to the wiki but still dont know what to do next
[08:32] <froud> jsgotangco: we are all learning
[08:44] <jsgotangco> bbl i gotta go to the doctor later
[08:48] <Liz> ad ive already been to the docs..heh
[10:23] <Liz> bb2moro
[02:07] <abelli> buon giorno
[05:12] <jjesse> who
[05:12] <jjesse> doh wrong window
[06:08] <jjesse> welcome mdke
[06:08] <mdke> thanks jjesse
[07:17] <froud> enrico: you're back
[07:17] <enrico> froud: hello
[07:17] <froud> how was amsterdam
[07:18] <enrico> So, what happened?  I've seen french stuff coming in... is it already integrated in the build system?
[07:18] <enrico> Amsterdam is pretty ok, but I had a very useless day today
[07:18] <froud> no need you for that
[07:18] <jjesse> there were some messages in the mailing list on french stuff if i recall correctly?
[07:18] <froud> we still need to create -fr.xml from the po
[07:19] <froud> the po files for about and release notes are in
[07:19] <froud> we need to make them back to xml
[07:19] <froud> so aboutubuntu-fr.xml from aboutubuntu-fr.po
[07:19] <jjesse> wow a lot of changes when i did a svn up
[07:19] <froud> I just have not had the time to do it
[07:20] <froud> enrico: we are tagged at 0.4 in tags/
[07:20] <froud> 0.4 is uploaded by Thom
[07:21] <froud> jjesse: yes Flonne has given me some great patch today
[07:21] <froud> jjesse: he is working on User Guide
[07:23] <enrico> oh, cool
[07:23] <enrico> So, how do we work towards integrating the translations in the Debian package?
[07:23] <enrico> I mean, in the .deb?
[07:23] <froud> enrico: if you dont know then how are we expected to know
[07:24] <enrico> froud: ah, ok, now I get what you asked me before
[07:24] <enrico> Is there something done for turning .po back into xml?
[07:24] <froud> enrico: nothing yet
[07:24] <enrico> I'll be in A'dam for two weeks, with very little time
[07:25] <froud> see link above
[07:25] <enrico> And that very little time needs to be allocated to my full-time job
[07:25] <froud> I will make some time soon for this
[07:25] <froud> understand
[07:25] <froud> enrico: I must also learn the upload procedure
[07:25] <enrico> I'll try to update the .deb build system, but I'd like someone to work out creating the translated stuff
[07:25] <froud> incase you are not here
[07:26] <froud> excuse the dump
[07:26] <froud> Your first usage of xml2po would probably amount to something like:
[07:26] <froud>   xml2po C/planner-manual.xml > planner-manual.pot
[07:26] <froud>   cp planner-manual.pot es.po
[07:26] <froud> Now, edit es.po, and add Spanish translations.  Finally, you merge
[07:26] <froud> your translations back:
[07:26] <froud>   xml2po -p es.po -o es/planner-manual.xml C/planner-manual.xml
[07:26] <froud> Next time C/planner-manual.xml changes, you'd sync (gettextism is
[07:26] <froud> "merge") your es.po first:
[07:26] <froud>   xml2po -u es.po C/planner-manual.xml
[07:26] <froud> Now, you update translations in es.po, and merge them back in the
[07:26] <froud> same way as before (of course, don't forget to check es.po with
[07:26] <froud> "msgfmt -cv -o /dev/null es.po" or you may get errors):
[07:26] <froud>   xml2po -p es.po -o es/planner-manual.xml C/planner-manual.xml
[07:28] <froud> enrico: I just need time to create the scripts
[07:28] <froud> although there are scripts in gnome utils
[07:28] <froud> they do not work as is in our system
[07:28] <jjesse> wow that website w/ the instructions to convert xml to po and back again is great
[07:29] <froud> jjesse: perhaps you have some time to architect a solution for us
[07:29] <froud> ;-)
[07:29] <jjesse> froud i can try and see what i can do
[07:30] <froud> Great
[07:30] <jjesse> <- is supposed to be busy working
[07:30] <froud> jjesse:  what ever you do document it here http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocteamStepByStepl18n
[07:31] <froud> enrico: need to garden that file to a suitable place
[07:31] <jjesse> so who does the conversion from the pot files to xml?  is always the same person?
[07:31] <froud> any one of us can do it
[07:31] <froud> jjesse: once we freeze the strings
[07:31] <froud> somebody does a pot file
[07:32] <froud> the translate guys take them and make po
[07:32] <froud> they give us back po
[07:32] <froud> we make xml from thier po files
[07:32] <jjesse> ah i c
[07:32] <froud> basic file name convention is <filename>-<lang>.po
[07:33] <froud> to <filename>-<lang>.xml
[07:33] <froud> the en files are just <filename>.xml and <filename>.pot
[07:34] <froud> At present the i18n files reside in the same folder as the en files
[07:34] <froud> after hoary the i18n files fill each go to thier own folder
[07:34] <froud> according to the GNOME i18n folder naming convention
[07:35] <froud> take a look at gnome-utils
[07:35] <froud> take a look at gnome-doc-utils
[07:35] <froud> we can crib it from there
[07:36] <froud> the i18n guys will take the pot and put it in Rosetta
[07:36] <jjesse> reading and trying to understan
[07:36] <mdke> so the docs are def. going into rosetta?
[07:37] <froud> mkde: well I dont really care so long as we get a po back :-)
[07:37] <froud> for me i18n should be a black box
[07:37] <froud> we put it in and it comes out with a new flag
[07:37] <mdke> froud, seriously now
[07:37] <mdke> get my name right
[07:38] <froud> mkde: not intil you move to Kubuntu
[07:38] <mdke> or you're gonna get beatz
[07:38] <mdke> ;)
[07:38] <froud> :-)
[07:38] <froud> mdke: I dont mind how they do the actual translation
[07:39] <froud> so long as we can give them what they want
[07:39] <mdke> yeah
[07:39] <froud> and get back waht we want, without to much work on either side
[07:39] <mdke> but it would be nice if rosetta was workin
[07:39] <froud> that is why it is important to do ther merge and sync stuff
[07:40] <mdke> i might join their list
[07:40] <froud> mdke: you like translations hey?
[07:40] <mdke> i think they should work more closely with the locoteams
[07:40] <mdke> yeah
[07:40] <froud> well we can always put you in charge of that department
[07:41] <mdke> is there such a department?
[07:41] <froud> I have enough on my hands with writing and XML framework
[07:41] <mdke> its the translation teams department really
[07:41] <froud> yes but having an interface to follow through on things is good for distributing the load on the writers
[07:43] <froud> we have lots of ground to cover after hoary and putting people in place with roles could resolve confusion
[07:43] <mdke> ok well listen if I can help out, just tell me what to do
[07:43] <froud> well you can chase for translations
[07:43] <mdke> ok sure
[07:44] <froud> and when we freeze docs you can pickup the ball and let people know we are ready
[07:44] <mdke> there have been two responses from the locoteam email i sent yesterday
[07:44] <jjesse> reall quick for kubuntu all i need to install is kubuntu-desktop right?
[07:44] <mdke> and the italian team has also responded
[07:44] <mdke> lol
[07:44] <froud> jjesse:  http://www.kubuntu.org.uk/documentation.php
[07:45] <mdke> awww
[07:46] <froud> we chased him off
[07:46] <froud> he must be tired from his trip
[07:47] <froud> jjesse: let me know how you find that document to be
[07:47] <mdke> k
[07:47] <mdke> cya froud
[07:56] <jjesse> wow that was the most conersation in this channel that i have seen in a long long time :)
[07:56] <mdke> lol
[07:57] <apokryphos> hey froud :)
[07:58] <froud> apokryphos: hey
[07:58] <apokryphos> Will be done in a few :P. What tag should I use for describing a checkbox-description?
[07:59] <apokryphos> i.e. in the Find, "Dynamic Results".
[08:00] <froud> the check box is a guibutton but if your want just the tag use label
[08:00] <froud> guilabel
[08:00] <apokryphos> ok
[08:01] <froud> apokryphos:  I normally just say the <guibutton>Dynamic Results</guibutton> checkbox
[08:01] <apokryphos> I'll svn up; only really done Find and Commiting Changes part, but I've got time now so I'll do others
[08:02] <froud> Ok sure, dont worry if some stuff does not work. I found a few place were the app is not implimented yet
[08:05] <apokryphos> http://youmortals.com/stuff/ubuntu/kynaptic.xml.diff
[08:07] <apokryphos> some are very minor things ;)
[08:12] <froud> apokryphos: great thanks I just touch a few peices in your patch will will commit in a momement
[08:12] <apokryphos> cool
[08:13] <apokryphos> froud: If there's any recurring docbok errors, please do let me know, so I don't make 'em again. :P
[08:14] <froud> apokryphos: theres a heap
[08:14] <apokryphos> :/
[08:14] <froud> do you know how to validate
[08:14] <apokryphos> Hmm, can I use checkXML for that file?
[08:15] <froud> apokryphos: see http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/XsltprocAndXmllint
[08:15] <froud> I will fix them
[08:15] <froud> and dont worry about it if you make mistakes
[08:15] <froud> just try to make less
[08:15] <froud> :-)
[08:15] <froud> but hey, thanks for the patch man
[08:17] <froud> apokryphos: you will be able to see the problems if you do a diff agianst HEAD when I have done the commit
[08:18] <apokryphos> Yeah, eek, sorry. Need to do more practice. Will use that tool referenced. ;-)
[08:19] <froud> cool
[08:19] <froud> but really it is ok
[08:19] <froud> it is not ok if you are a commotter though ;-)
[08:22] <jjesse> wow kubuntu-desktop is  a huge update :)
[08:23] <apokryphos> Yeah, I believe they're building release candidate candidates now ;)
[08:26] <froud> apokryphos:
[08:26] <froud> svn commit -m commit a patch compliments of "apokryphos" kynaptic.xml --non-interactive
[08:26] <froud> Sending kynaptic.xml
[08:26] <froud> Transmitting file data .
[08:26] <froud> Committed revision 787.
[08:26] <froud> successfully (0)
[08:26] <froud> wil will be doing an indent of the file now. So if you need to diff do it on r787
[08:27] <apokryphos> cool. Will a plain svn up update me now?
[08:27] <apokryphos>  So if you need to diff do it on r787 -- not sure if I understand completely. :P
[08:28] <froud> apokryphos: no only if you wanted to see the changes I made
[08:29] <froud> you can just do svn revert kynaptic.xml
[08:29] <apokryphos> right
[08:29] <froud> that will make the HEAD in your working copy
[08:30] <froud> apokryphos: it's easier than tla or cvs
[08:30] <froud> altough Baz is looking good
[08:32] <froud> apokryphos: a new HTML is in http://www.inwords.co.za/kubuntu/kynaptic/kynaptic.html
[08:33] <apokryphos> froud: excellent; thanks. :)
[08:33] <jjesse> ooo new kde looks great
[08:34] <jjesse> just need to configure my desktop and stuff
[08:34] <froud> jjesse: welcome to KDE
[08:35] <froud> jjesse: this will make mdke mad ;_0
[08:35] <froud> jjesse: was that document of any help
[08:35] <apokryphos> A new recruit: excellent.
[08:35] <froud> apokryphos: soon the whole docteam will be on Kubuntu
[08:35] <froud> five toes and a foot
[08:36] <jjesse> that doc was great still reading through it though to make sure there is nothing i would like to suggest
[08:36] <mdke> hmm
[08:36] <mdke> i will try kde
[08:36] <mdke> is 3.4 out officially?
[08:36] <apokryphos> Yup
[08:37] <apokryphos> since a few weeks ago now..
[08:37] <mdke> its not in gentoo yet
[08:37] <mdke> when it is I will try it
[08:38] <apokryphos> It's available to emerge, I'm pretty sure...
[08:38] <mdke> not in stable
[08:38] <mdke> *  kde-base/kdebase
[08:38] <mdke>       Latest version available: 3.3.2-r1
[08:39] <mdke> i am patient anyhow :)
[08:39] <apokryphos> ah, ok. Sure.
[08:39] <apokryphos> hey wait a minute, isn't this *ubuntu*-doc :D
[08:40] <mdke> lol
[08:40] <apokryphos> Heretic!
[08:40] <mdke> i have ubuntu on my lappy
[08:40] <mdke> i'm leaving for a while now
[08:41] <froud> guys must love ya and leave ya for now. When I come back I expect everyone to be running Kubuntu ;-)
[08:41] <froud> apokryphos: thanks for the patch
[08:55] <apokryphos> froud-away: for when you get back: what should be put in the Managing Packages section?
[09:16] <claude> does someone know if it's still time to work on translations of hoary release-notes ?
[09:16] <claude> i've got a diff on french translation...
[09:39] <Burgundavia> claude: I have not been involved, but we haven't released yet
[09:40] <claude> so i can send the diff to the list, right ?
[09:41] <Burgundavia> I would do so
[09:41] <claude> k


[04:25] <pitti> Good morning
[04:29] <thumper> o/ pitti
[04:47] <TheMuso> Morning pitti. :)
[04:47] <pitti> hey thumper, hey TheMuso, how are you?
[04:48] <thumper> doin' good, busy like normal
[04:48] <thumper> making juju more awesomer during the day, working on my startup at night
[04:48] <thumper> sleeping less
[04:51] <TheMuso> pitti: Very well thanks, yourself?
[04:51] <pitti> thumper: uh, how long can you sustain that :)
[04:51] <pitti> TheMuso: quite fine, thanks!
[04:51] <thumper> pitti: been doing it hard for about a year, very patchy before that
[04:52] <thumper> pitti: every one of my holidays in the last year and a bit has been working on the startup (except for last week - parent help at my daughter's year 8 school camp)
[04:52] <thumper> pitti: it is hard... hoping it will be worthwhile one day
[06:12] <didrocks> good morning
[06:24] <pitti> bonjour didrocks
[06:30] <seb128> hey pitti & desktopers
[06:30] <seb128> wie gehts?
[06:30]  * seb128 upgrades to w
[06:30] <pitti> c'est un seb128 ! salut !
[06:30] <didrocks> hey pitti! (sorry, didn't see your ping)
[06:30] <pitti> seb128: gut, danke! systemd debugging again :)
[06:30] <pitti> seb128: just now? you are soooo late to the werewolf :)
[06:31] <pitti> (it's just boring, nothing really changed yet..)
[06:31] <seb128> pitti, yeah, first upgrade, then contribute to making the thing more exciting :-)
[06:31] <seb128> pitti, desktop debugging or making the phone like systemd? ;-)
[06:31] <pitti> but oh well, it was already some fun to untangle some uninstallability and test regressions this morning :)
[06:31] <pitti> seb128: Laney's schroot-in-lxc woes, so desktop
[06:32] <pitti> seb128: that's the last bug scheduled for the next SRU, then I can go back infecting^Wporting the phone
[06:32] <seb128> great
[06:36] <seb128> Sweet5hark, do you know why libreoffice is triggering alternative failure/fixed emails almost daily
[06:36] <seb128> it's a bit annoying
[06:37] <seb128> it's like "failed" and a few hours later you get "fixed"
[06:37] <seb128> it keeps doing that
[06:37] <pitti> that was part of my fixes this morning
[06:37] <pitti> tzdata was uninstallable in wily
[06:37] <seb128> oh, good
[06:37] <pitti> so libreoffice, cantor, poxml, and chromium-browser failed
[06:37] <pitti> now they are all happy again
[06:37] <seb128> great
[06:37]  * Sweet5hark has a look
[06:38] <seb128> when I clicked on the public url yesterday it was an "empty" label page
[06:38] <seb128> so I couldn't see the issue
[06:38] <seb128> Sweet5hark, hey, seems like pitti already handled it :-)
[06:40] <Sweet5hark> seb128: fwiw. looking at the last failure in vivid, its an 'unexpected EOF' on the source tarball ...
[06:41] <Sweet5hark> seb128: so I would assume libreoffice being this big, it just is more sensible to flaky network connections and other temporary glitches in the matrix ...
[06:42] <pitti> yes, that's my fault, bug 1384706
[06:42] <pitti> it's ridiculously hard to reproduce and investigate, unfortunately :/
[06:44] <Sweet5hark> pitti: http://vmiklos.hu/blog/so-many-bugs.html <- backside of t-shirt applies
[06:44] <pitti> Sweet5hark: ^5s
[07:35] <seb128> grrrr, firefox had some issues yesterday and nucked my password/login db it seems
[07:36] <seb128> chrisccoulson, ^ is there a backup on disk somewhere that I can use for those cases?
[07:37] <pitti> seb128: eek, no backup?
[07:37] <seb128> pitti, backups but not from the full userdir and not from .mozilla...
[07:50] <willcooke> o/
[07:51] <didrocks> hey willcooke
[07:52] <larsu> morning willcooke!
[07:54] <seb128> hey willcooke
[08:02] <willcooke> xmir is fixed!
[08:02] <Laney> meow
[08:04] <willcooke> happyaron, thanks for your email.  I will read it and digest today
[08:05] <willcooke> happyaron, How was Scotland btw?
[12:05] <FJKong>  /quit
[12:42] <tkamppeter> willcooke, hi
[13:17] <theo_> instellen slaapstand scherm
[13:20] <didrocks> ok, all tests are finally passing again
[13:20]  * didrocks goes for a run
[13:28] <seb128> didrocks, enjoy!
[14:52] <Laney> man
[14:52] <Laney> what is this u-s-d media-keys race
[15:05] <didrocks> Laney: around for at least a cycle
[15:06] <Laney> I didn't say it was new
[15:06] <Laney> irritating though
[15:06] <didrocks> yeah, didn't get any useful debug IIRC
[15:07] <didrocks> and didn't reproduce when running u-s-d in debug mode
[15:07] <didrocks> I guess a typical heisenbug
[15:07] <didrocks> you add debug, it slows it down enough to not get the race
[15:08] <seb128> is that when u-s-d starts before compiz?
[15:08] <seb128> or the other way around?
[15:08] <seb128> or nothing to do with that?
[15:17] <Laney> hmm
[15:17] <Laney> could be a race there
[15:17] <Laney> don't know if that causes this though
[15:18] <seb128> the way it's supposed to work is for compiz to do the grabbing and send the events to u-s-d over dbus and u-s-d triggers the actions
[15:19] <seb128> when you get the bug, does hitting the key generate the dbus events?
[15:19] <seb128> of it does the issue is on the u-s-d side
[15:19] <seb128> if it doesn't it's compiz/unity
[15:20] <Laney> org.gnome.Shell AcceleratorActivated happens
[15:20] <seb128> so u-s-d issue I guess
[15:20] <attente> none of the shortcuts are working?
[15:21] <Laney> doesn't seem so
[15:21] <attente> did u-s-d possibly crash?
[15:21] <Laney> nah
[15:21] <attente> because then compiz would keep the grabs
[15:21] <Laney> oh, in the past?
[15:21] <attente> yeah
[15:21] <Laney> umm
[15:22] <seb128> attente, compiz having the grab would be fine?
[15:22] <seb128> it's supposed to work this way no?
[15:22] <seb128> compiz grab and send the dbus messages
[15:22] <seb128> and u-s-d listen to dbus and call the callbacks?
[15:22] <attente> yeah, but if u-s-d crashes, the new instance of u-s-d would re-register new grabs, but the older grabs compiz already has takes priority iirc
[15:23] <seb128> why is u-s-d registering grabs?
[15:23] <seb128> I though compiz was the one grabbing
[15:24] <attente> i mean u-s-d registering grabs with compiz
[15:24] <attente> over dbus
[15:24] <attente> org.gnome.Shell.GrabAccelerator[s]
[15:24] <seb128> how is that working? I though compiz was grabbing the key and just sending on dbus org.gnome.Shell.AcceleratorActivated
[15:25] <seb128> that any u-s-d running instance would listen to
[15:25] <attente> yeah, but it would be sending the old accelerator id
[15:25] <attente> that the crashed u-s-d registered
[15:25] <seb128> oh, I didn't know they had changing ids
[15:25] <attente> the new u-s-d wouldn't know the old u-s-d's ids
[15:25] <seb128> I though each action had a fix enum type number
[15:25] <attente> unless i'm not remembering properly
[15:26] <seb128> I don't know the details of that protocol
[15:26] <seb128> I just had a remote look at the time you guys did the change
[15:26] <seb128> you are probably right :-)
[15:27] <seb128> Laney, since when is u-s-d running for you (compared to unity)
[15:28] <Laney> can't check, sorry, I restarted it
[15:28] <Laney> attente: if I get compiz to ungrab those IDs should it start working again?
[15:29] <attente> Laney: yeah, ungrab over d-bus, then restart u-s-d should work
[15:29] <Laney> it grabs it again
[15:30] <Laney> :|
[16:23] <EphraimMB> What is Unity 8 up to now? Any screenshots?
[17:10] <seb128> EphraimMB, desktop or phone ones? you can probably easily google for some
[17:10] <seb128> happyaron, bug #1380982 is the most reported vivid e.u.c issue, is that something you are looking at?
[17:10] <EphraimMB> Desktop
[17:45] <jcastro> willcooke, I had a concurrent session during the unity8 showoff
[17:45] <jcastro> anything sexy I miss?
[17:46] <willcooke> jcastro, I wasnt there either - too many concurrent sessions :)
[17:46] <willcooke> maybe mzanetti knows? ^^
[17:46] <willcooke> guess we could just watch the video
[17:46] <jcastro> I just need a package name and/or PPA, heh
[17:47] <mzanetti> oh yeah, you did miss something cool :D
[18:29] <happyaron> seb128: sorry, nope, getting something hard to handle with willc


[00:56] <anon33_> gnome-session-save --logout responds with the following error (i'm using awesome WM):
[00:57] <anon33_>  (gnome-session-save:18743): WARNING **: Failed to call logout: The name org.gnome.SessionManager was not provided by any .service files
[00:57] <anon33_> Anyone know how to fix this issue?
[00:58] <penguin42> sorry, not seen that
[01:18] <Senix> coz_, hello good sir
[01:18] <coz_> Senix,  hey guy
[01:19] <Senix> coz_, Broadcom Corporation BCM4312 802.11b/g that would be my wifi card
[01:19] <coz_> Senix,  yeah on  these things... wifi  I am not a real expert on... however many of the people here can most likely answer that for you:)
[01:20] <Senix> coz_, well if i run into any problems i'll ask, but before i plague myself upon these fine users i shall try google first.
[01:21] <coz_> Senix,  good thinking..or simply download and burn the daily or alpha 1  cd  and test it out :)
[01:21] <Senix> coz_, will do
[01:22] <sagaci> it's pretty buggy but that's expected
[01:24] <nit-wit> sagaci, its not buggy it's special:)
[01:28] <sagaci> ai'll try it again at alpha 2
[03:31] <scizzo-> happy new years
[03:42] <IdleOne> thank you scizzo- you too
[16:08] <coz_> good day all
[16:09] <IdleOne> Happy new year coz_
[16:09] <coz_> IdleOne,   :)  thanks   same to you guy
[16:10] <IdleOne> Thank you
[16:12] <coz_> has the desktop icons been include yet... when searching  I mean?
[16:12] <coz_> included rather
[16:13] <coz_> have not has
[16:13] <coz_> oh boy starting the new year as if it were last yere :)
[16:14] <coz_> also ... is canonical back from vacation yet?
[16:51] <penguin42> coz_: UK has a holiday on monday, and I guess people in most places will be slowly working their way back into work over the week
[16:52] <coz_> penguin42,  ok sounds reasonable... thanks :)
[16:54]  * mongy worked last monday, weds-thurs, off sat,sun,mon back tues.
[18:03] <orbisvicis> hi, what does ubuntu call the kernel image? /boot/vmlinu... ?
[18:03] <yofel> /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.37-11-server for example
[18:06] <orbisvicis> yofel: thank you. that explains why the grub2 10_linux script searches for vmlinu[xz]-*
[18:06] <orbisvicis> (arch linux uses vmlinuz26, so that glob wouldnt work)
[18:15] <DrHalan> hey, hows natty coming along?
[18:17] <yofel> kubuntu great so far :P
[18:26] <bjsnider> the trouble with kubuntu is it has kde and not gnome
[18:26] <bjsnider> something's gotta be done about that
[18:26] <IdleOne> hehe
[19:43] <h4f> I got a kernel panic when inserting a cd.
[19:43] <penguin42> oh, shouldn't happen
[19:43] <penguin42> h4f: Do you have the full panic recorded in a log  (and has the system offered to submit it?)
[19:48] <h4f> penguin42: how do I get that log ?
[19:48] <penguin42> h4f: Did the machine crash when it happened or did it stumble on?
[19:48] <h4f> penguin42:  I tried writing an ISO to the disk. and it completes with failure. that means a CD is not in good. but any way the kernel should no panic
[19:49] <penguin42> yeh kernel shouldn't panic - so when you say it panic'd what did you see? An oops? Flashing keyboard lights?
[19:50] <h4f>  penguin42:  I see - switching to text mode. then stack trace. and few kernel panics mesages. and everything stopes working
[19:51] <penguin42> h4f: OK, well if you have a camera take a picture of what you see in text mode, after reboot you can see if there are any messages saved in /var/log/messages or /var/log/kern.log but it depends how much made it to disk as it crashed
[19:52] <h4f> penguin42:  ok i will do that later. may be 30 min
[19:56] <penguin42> for the record, I hate X cut/paste semantics
[20:00] <BUGabundo> evening
[20:00] <BUGabundo> stupid question of the year:
[20:00] <BUGabundo> how do I get compiz to start on boot? (classic desktop)
[20:04] <h4f> One more problem I have. when unplug the battery while laptop is running it gets kernel panic.
[20:05] <h4f> when the laptop is running and I plug in the battery crash it wont kernel panic. I have acer aspire 5720 which i think supports hot unplug of battery
[20:08] <penguin42> hmm never tried hot unplugging a battery
[20:10] <mongy> with autohide on, is there anyway to bring it back without moving the window
[20:16] <mongy> also, i keep trying to enable window previews and it locks my vbox guest everytime.
[20:26] <h4f> is there a way to record kernel panic info ?
[20:28] <jMCg> crash? kexec? kdump.. etc..
[20:29] <jMCg> http://www.google.com/images?client=opera&rls=en&q=linux%20panic&oe=utf-8&channel=suggest&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi <<< This is the wrong way :-/
[20:31] <cozziemoto> has nayone had the issue when installing that monitor goes into a tizzy  stateing wrong resoulutin out of range?
[20:32] <penguin42> jMCg: I don't think Ubuntu has anything set up to capture them in a better way than that normally; although I see it reserves memroy for a crash kernel but I don't see it doing anything with it
[20:32] <cozziemoto> I have already teste with lucid and maverick and no issues
[20:33] <penguin42> cozziemoto: Then it's a regression - report it! What graphics card?
[20:33] <cozziemoto> penguin42,   nvidia
[20:33] <cozziemoto> penguin42,  it wont get to the grub menu of course...
[20:33] <penguin42> oh
[20:33] <penguin42> cozziemoto: Best to report it
[20:34] <jMCg> penguin42: all you have to do is install crash
[20:35] <penguin42> jMCg: Oh interesting, I didn't know that existed, is there a canned response to people to tell people to use it?
[20:36] <cozziemoto> i will also install an earlier daily build  to get past this
[20:36] <jMCg> !crash
[20:36] <jMCg> !kdump
[20:36] <jMCg> Nope.
[20:36] <penguin42> hmm
[20:38] <bcurtiswx_> anyone having bzr problems with python 2.7 ?
[20:39] <bcurtiswx_> with an lp address for example
[20:40] <bcurtiswx_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/549359/
[20:40] <penguin42> bcurtiswx_: bzr was very broken the other day
[20:40] <bcurtiswx_> penguin42, does it need a rebuild of some sort?
[20:41] <penguin42> bug 693880
[20:43] <bcurtiswx_> penguin42, muchas gracias. i'll see if balil's patch works for me :)
[20:46] <bcurtiswx_> penguin42, cool worked.  :)
[20:59] <jMCg> penguin42: here we go: add "deb http://ddebs.ubuntu.com/ natty main multiverse restricted universe" to your /etc/apt/sources.list then: sudo aptitude install crash kdump-tools kexec-tools linux-image-$(uname -r)-dbgsym ; read /usr/share/doc/kdump-tools/README.Debian -- edit /etc/default/kdump-tools and /etc/default/grub accordingly
[21:01] <penguin42> sounds good in principal; not tried it
[21:02] <jMCg> I just did the last two or so steps, because Ubuntu, as opposed to Fedora doesn't do them.
[21:02] <jMCg> But generally, that's it.
[21:03] <jMCg> I just wish it would be there out of the box.
[21:03] <jMCg> Like, you know.. on a real Unix.
[21:03] <penguin42> file a bug on it
[21:06] <jMCg> Nonono. I mean: OUT OF THE BOX. You install a server someonewhere out there in the wild, you'll never have a monitor attached or anything. If it crashes you want it to leave you with a nice crashdump to analyze -- after comming up cleanly and starting all services again.
[21:07] <jMCg> http://lethargy.org/~jesus/writes/panic-linux-freebsd-and-solaris <<< Something like that.
[21:08] <jMCg> ``I like Linux, but I need savecore, I need it now, and I need it to unquestioningly, reliably work out-of-the-box.'' -- beautiful.
[21:16] <jMCg> The comments are a joy to read. And by that I mean my brain is freezing from the idiocy.
[21:19] <penguin42> just add chocolate
[21:25] <jMCg> I'm doing that right now.
[22:30] <bjsnider> BUGabundo, have you got a solution to the choppy scrolling iissue in chromium?
[22:30] <BUGabundo> don't have it
[22:31] <bjsnider> you don't have what, choppy scrolling, or a solution?
[22:31] <KM0201> why did desktop default to unity now?
[22:31] <BUGabundo> KM0201: not now
[22:31] <BUGabundo> been like that for weeks
[22:32] <BUGabundo> bjsnider: don't have choppy scroll AFAIS
[22:32] <KM0201> i just downloaded it.. i guess this has been discussed quite a bit?
[22:32] <penguin42> KM0201: If you don't like it you can select 'Classic desktop' from gdm/kdm
[22:32] <KM0201> penguin42: i know, but thats not the point.
[22:32] <penguin42> KM0201: Indeed, but that's somewhat contentious
[22:32] <KM0201> can you safely uninstall unity?
[22:33] <KM0201> penguin42: why would it be contentious?...
[22:41] <nit-wit> KM0201, have you tried the regular desktop it is already there
[22:42] <KM0201> nit-wit: yes.. i was just wondering why they changed "unity" to be default
[22:42] <em> any of you running Natty right now?
[22:42] <mongy> even more user friendly I guess.  but old faithful is still there.
[22:42] <bcurtiswx_> em, i believe most of us are running natty.. thats the purpose of this channel
[22:43] <nit-wit> KM0201, I guess it is the new thing I didn't like it at first but I can see gettng used to it but I have a few more OS installed as well
[22:43] <em> okay good could any of you tell me if there is a package called 'racket' in Natty
[22:43] <em> it's a version of scheme
[22:43] <bcurtiswx_> em, what version r u using?
[22:43] <em> maverick
[22:43] <KM0201> nit-wit: yeah, i guess.
[22:43] <penguin42> em: See packages.ubuntu.com
[22:43] <em> penguin42!
[22:43] <bcurtiswx_> penguin42, beat me to it.. lol thx
[22:44] <nit-wit> KM0201, I usualy just have a very tiny panel with a static what running dropdown, so the lack of control over the panels is a irritant.
[22:44] <nit-wit> *what's
[22:50] <em> Do any of you know why there is no package for racket in Ubuntu?
[22:50] <em> I filed a bug about that way back in Jaunty I think.
[22:51] <yofel> nobody bothered to package it? We get many packaging requests, much more than the MOTU team can take care of
[22:51] <yofel> iirc there was a request in the debian BTS too
[22:52] <SwedeMike> will there be vaapi on intel 4500 support by default in 11.04?
[22:52] <yofel> yep
[22:52] <yofel> em: debian bug 592688
[22:53] <SwedeMike> so one doesn't have to do all the stuff in http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?t=86581
[22:53] <em> yofel: I am the one who wrote that bug!
[22:54] <yofel> oh right, just noticed..
[22:55] <em> How will it get into Natty?
[22:56] <em> I filed that bug with Debian way back on August 12 2010 because everyone i talked to in Ubuntu said that was the way to do it. It will be in Natty?
[22:56] <yofel> unless someone wants to maintain a seperate racket package in Ubuntu, we wait for debian to package it and then sync from there
[22:57] <yofel> em: you can ask in #ubuntu-motu, they're the ones taking care of packaging requests
[22:57] <em> thanks.
[23:34]  * penguin42 wonders how to move/rearrange stuff on a KDE panel
[23:45] <rww> penguin42: click the cashew button on the far right, if it's there. if it's not, right-click the panel and Unlock Widgets first.
[23:46] <penguin42> rww: Oh I see, it wasn't obvious that when in that state it allowed movement of the panel icons
[23:46] <penguin42> rww: Thanks


[13:03] <augeus> Can I speak? Or do I need to register first?
[13:03] <augeus> OK. Looks like I can speak. Can somebody help me fill in the blanks in this bug? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1771109
[20:22] <augeus> So, it's been a long time since I last reported an ubuntu bug, and I don't really remember the process.
[20:22] <teward> `ubuntu-bug PACKAGE` on the terminal
[20:22] <augeus> Can somebody check my bug report and tell me whether it's alright? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1771109
[20:22] <teward> without the backticks
[20:23] <teward> augeus: that looks like a curl bug/error, it might not be the library but something that's not configured properly.
[20:24] <augeus> teward, I see! However, I get the same error when using telnet/ssh/other apps
[20:24] <teward> that's because emoji aren't valid IDNs
[20:24] <teward> so this is a blog post that touches on it, a little... https://daniel.haxx.se/blog/2015/02/24/curl-smiley-urls-and-libc/
[20:24] <augeus> However, they seem to exist, and firefox accepts them without complaining
[20:25] <teward> not saying that's not true, but it may requires some 'fun' to work properly.
[20:25]  * augeus bought an emoji domain for novelty's sake, then found out this
[20:25] <teward> I think this is more of a spec problem for IDN
[20:25] <teward> IDN allowed some emojis, then a later RFC disallowed it
[20:25] <teward> so depending on IDN spec emojis may or may not be valid
[20:25]  * augeus knows.. I did my googling
[20:25] <augeus> I believe that the proper behavior should be looking the domain up, and returning a warning
[20:26] <teward> augeus: the question is how it's translated, which sounds like a resolver / glib issue, but i'm not confident in that
[20:26] <augeus> So, is it a bug or a feature?
[20:26] <augeus> I get that it's not standard, but such domains exist, and can be bought
[20:27] <teward> augeus: not discounting, but keep in mind 'new' specs come up and libraries aren't always up-to-date with latest spec
[20:27] <teward> My two cents: THis is neither a feature nor a bug, and is more a case of an undefined spec.
[20:27] <teward> so therefore in some cases it's a bug, and in some cases it's a feature.
[20:27] <augeus> I see.. So, how should I report this?
[20:27] <teward> I think this is a "Leave the bug, and let the devs figure it out" type situation.
[20:27] <teward> augeus: the way you did seems fine, but I think it's going to be an 'open ended' discussion to trace it
[20:28] <teward> just my two cents
[20:28] <augeus> I'm fairly tired, just came back home, so forgive me if I cannot parse properly
[20:28] <teward> nah you're fine.  I've been staring at email server logs all day so I'm in the same boat :P
[20:28] <augeus> I see. :)
[20:29] <augeus> So, should I add something to my bug report to increase my chances of getting a response?
[21:12] <augeus> Anyway, thanks for your time, teward - Good luck with your troubleshooting