[00:00] <lifeless> poolie_: whats the link you added to creatingnewprojects for ?
[00:00] <poolie_> lifeless: i think people will google 'create launchpad project' end up there and be confused
[00:01] <lifeless> ok, I think it needs refinement though
[00:01] <poolie_> sure
[00:01] <poolie_> just wanted to give people a chance to understand it is not rules about launchpad as a whole
[00:01] <poolie_> typical quoting problem
[00:35] <wgrant> Where did the 15 new bugs come from? :/
[02:12] <wgrant> Erm
[02:13] <wgrant> http://blog.launchpad.net/cool-new-stuff/better-bug-subscriptions was published yesterday, but it shows the UI from when the feature was released, which is completely different from the current one :/
[02:14] <wgrant> Should we unpublish until it's fixed?
[02:14] <wgrant> Oh, it's at least not frontpaged.
[02:18] <lifeless> eyeballs requested: https://dev.launchpad.net/PolicyAndProcess/DatabaseSchemaChangesProcess
[02:21] <wgrant> lifeless: Have we analysed recent patches to see how many of them are doable without simultaenous changes?
[02:22] <lifeless> wgrant: not rigorously, but we haven't been trying to do it either, so what we've done isn't a baseline
[02:22] <lifeless> wgrant: we know that all the ha services out there manage
[02:24] <wgrant> lifeless: I think we should before we go much further, so we don't get ourselves into trouble.
[02:24] <wgrant> Since we're throwing away read-only (which I still find fairly unwise)
[02:25] <wallyworld_> lifeless: about your document ^^^: in the Deploying Patches section, "After successful QA on a patch, ...". I take it that is for hot patches. Cold patches are deployed once a month during out downtime deployment. Shoudl that text say "After QA on a hot patch, ..."?
[02:25] <lifeless> wallyworld_: not any more
[02:25] <lifeless> wallyworld_: you might want to read yesterdays performance tuesday mail ;)
[02:26] <StevenK> wgrant: Do you think the removal of the bazaar-experts celebrity is QA-able?
[02:26] <wallyworld_> lifeless: i read it but it clearly has gone in one ear and straight out the other :-(
[02:26] <wgrant> StevenK: Check that you have branch access, possibly check that LOSAs do.
[02:27] <StevenK> wgrant: I can change the details of an owned branch, good enough?
[02:28] <wgrant> StevenK: Indeed.
[02:29] <lifeless> wallyworld_: there are now no scheduled monthly patch windows
[02:29] <lifeless> wallyworld_: over the next 4 weeks we'll be bringing up the process for doing short downtime multiple times a week
[02:29] <lifeless> wallyworld_: (short => less than 300 seconds)
[02:29] <lifeless> wallyworld_: and all patches landing from here on in need to be compatible with that process
[02:30] <wallyworld_> lifeless: ah, right. thanks. for that 300 seconds, lp will be in ro mode?
[02:30] <wallyworld_> this will be a fantasic change
[02:31] <lifeless> no, just db connections refused
[02:31] <lifeless> going into readonly mode and out again takes an hour
[02:31] <wgrant> lifeless: In the current implementation.
[02:31] <wgrant> There is nothing that requires that.l
[02:31] <lifeless> wgrant: sure, and if someone wants to work on that they can
[02:32] <wgrant> Even in the current model, where we have to rebuild the slave because slony is crap.
[02:32] <wgrant> Touch file, detach slave, upgrade, remove file, rebuild slave.
[02:32] <wgrant> No slower than blocking connections.
[02:32] <lifeless> so no
[02:32] <lifeless> we're not detaching slaves or rebuilding them.
[02:32] <wgrant> Why not?
[02:32] <lifeless> thats a cause of about 90% of our downtime delays.
[02:32] <wgrant> We can easily do this without downtime...
[02:33] <lifeless> I don't object to a great implementation of readonly mode. But readonly mode must not make the downtime longer or riskier.
[02:33] <lifeless> Currently it does.
[02:33] <wallyworld_> if db connections are refused for 5 minutes, the users will see page timeouts?
[02:33] <lifeless> And its not at all clear to me that that can be fixed on slony.
[02:33] <wgrant> Can we tell SSO to GTFO of our DB and move to a sensible replication strategy?
[02:34] <lifeless> wgrant: not in the same timeframe as this project ;)
[02:34] <lifeless> wallyworld_: they will see a horrible mess in the very first cut, but we'll iterate.
[02:34] <wallyworld_> cool, just checking :-)
[02:34] <wgrant> lifeless: "a horrible mess" meaning a maintenance page?
[02:34] <lifeless> like, the appservers can show a fail-UFO page when they can't connect to the DB eventually
[02:34]  * wallyworld_ was also wondering that
[02:35] <wgrant> Unlike slony, reloading apache isn't risky.
[02:35] <lifeless> wgrant: according to losas it is.
[02:35] <wgrant> They are wrong :)
[02:35] <lifeless> wgrant: they are the ones dealing with our apaches not restarting cleanly today.
[02:35] <lifeless> wgrant: so, I beg to differ.
[02:35] <wgrant> We have had a lot of rollout problems, and that is not one of them that I've ever heard of.
[02:35] <wgrant> So we have rollout problems that are hidden from us? Yay.
[02:35] <lifeless> wgrant: we don't restart apache during our rollouts.
[02:36] <spm> minor correction. we graceful apache on crowberry.
[02:36] <lifeless> ah, one.
[02:36] <wgrant> We can't just leave the appservers silently broken for 5 minutes.
[02:36] <spm> branch rewriter thingybobby
[02:37] <lifeless> wgrant: 5 minutes is not the target; its the absolute outer limit
[02:37] <wgrant> Perfect is the enemy of good, but terrible is the enemy of not looking like we are useless.
[02:37] <lifeless> wgrant: the target is 10-20 seconds
[02:38] <lifeless> wgrant: look, if you want to jump in and make the error condition look nice, that would be awesome.
[02:38] <lifeless> wgrant: I was clear about what I was proposing on -stakeholders
[02:38] <elmo> wait
[02:38] <elmo> what?
[02:38] <elmo> what's the problem with reloading apache?
[02:38] <wgrant> That's what I said.
[02:38] <StevenK> How do I get (and reset) the OOPS count in a test? self.getOopsCount() or so?
[02:38] <elmo> re*starting* apache can be problematic
[02:38] <elmo> but reloading is just fine
[02:38] <elmo> we do it *all the time*
[02:38] <wgrant> If we can't reload Apache, we have pretty serious problems.
[02:39] <lifeless> elmo: spm was telling me a month or so back that our ones don't go cleanly occasionally
[02:39] <lifeless> elmo: I didn't get details
[02:39] <elmo> lifeless: restart yes - reload no
[02:39] <elmo> and we wouldn't need a restart to put a maintenance page in place
[02:39] <lifeless> ok, good to know. Can a script running on wildcherry drive such a change ?
[02:39] <wgrant> So I may not be insane. This is good.
[02:40] <elmo> lifeless: it could, sure
[02:40] <lifeless> ok, cool.
[02:41] <spm> lifeless: I suspect you're mixing problems there. we have a known issue where a reload won't clear a certain problem; necessitating a restart. but that's a different beastie.
[02:44] <lifeless> spm: it wasn't, but its beside the point - I'm entirely happy for us to do something you guys consider low-risk-of-fail
[02:45] <lifeless> spm: my criteria are: the core script must not block on niceties (because once downtime starts, users are indisposed regardless); and the script must not be able to be made unreliable due to non-core-tasks.
[02:47] <spm> nod
[03:55] <StevenK> wgrant: O hai, can haz review?
[04:05] <wgrant> StevenK: Which?
[04:09] <StevenK> wgrant: https://code.launchpad.net/~stevenk/launchpad/daily-build-oops/+merge/67915
[04:20] <StevenK> wgrant: Danke
[05:08] <poolie> spiv, your patch failed again the same way
[05:09] <poolie> has anyone else seen "ImportError: No module named html5browser" inside importfascist?
[05:09] <poolie> ah i see the mail
[05:10] <poolie> nm
[05:10] <poolie> spiv i think i can fix it
[05:10] <spiv> Ah good :)
[05:22] <StevenK> lifeless: O hai, Mr OCR. Can haz review?
[05:42] <lifeless> of whut
[06:17] <wgrant> StevenK: https://code.launchpad.net/~wgrant/launchpad/bug-419534/+merge/67918
[06:35] <StevenK> lifeless: Sorry. https://code.launchpad.net/~stevenk/launchpad/uploaded-packages-wrong-link/+merge/67916
[06:37] <StevenK> wgrant: r=me
[07:50] <lifeless> stub: hiya
[07:50] <lifeless> stub: after this cutover, can we do our weekly catchup ?
[07:50] <bigjools> morning
[07:51] <lifeless> o/~
[07:52] <adeuring> good morning
[07:54] <stub> lifeless: sure
[07:57] <mrevell> Hallo
[08:56] <jtv> Anyone mind if I update dogfood?  allenap, bigjools, StevenK, wgrant?
[08:56] <bigjools> jfdi
[08:56]  * jtv jfdis
[09:19] <StevenK> Any one up for reviewing https://code.launchpad.net/~stevenk/launchpad/queue-no-changes ?
[09:19] <StevenK> Bah, branch URL.
[09:21] <StevenK> https://code.launchpad.net/~stevenk/launchpad/queue-no-changes/+merge/67913
[09:25] <bigjools> StevenK: where's the bug for that?
[09:48] <StevenK> bigjools: I don't think there is one.
[09:48] <bigjools> StevenK: then what are you fixing?
[09:48] <StevenK> bigjools: Happy to file a High bug for it.
[09:48] <bigjools> just want to know more about it, 'tis all
[09:49] <StevenK> bigjools: Right. When I was working with the LOSAs to reject an ACCEPTED binary upload on germanium, the queue tool didn't work. That branch should sort it.
[09:50] <bigjools> ah ok
[09:51] <bigjools> file bug :)
[10:43] <bigjools> release the hounds - /me just made a branch that allows people to use the API to request uploads to ubuntu by copying packages from PPAs.
[10:48] <LPCIBot> Project devel build #888: FAILURE in 2 hr 5 min: https://lpci.wedontsleep.org/job/devel/888/
[10:51] <bigjools> allenap: incoming branch from me if you don't mind?
[10:53] <allenap> bigjools: Cool.
[10:57] <bigjools> tar
[10:58] <StevenK> bigjools: Can you have another look at my MP?
[10:58] <StevenK> 2 hours?!
[10:58] <bigjools> yarp
[10:58]  * StevenK peers at Jenkins
[10:58] <henninge-lunch> allenap: Hi! If you could have a look at my branch while I am away, that would be great.
[10:58] <henninge-lunch> https://code.launchpad.net/~henninge/launchpad/bug-740208-ws-regression/+merge/67937
[10:59] <StevenK> Sigh, the slave died
[10:59] <bigjools> StevenK: that's an odd test
[10:59] <StevenK> bigjools: It tests that exact code path
[10:59] <StevenK> Which is what you wanted
[10:59] <bigjools> StevenK: by inspecting the logger?
[10:59] <bigjools> shouldn't it check no email is sent?
[11:00] <StevenK> How else do I determine it did *nothing*? :-)
[11:00] <StevenK> It doesn't even get that far, it bails out extremly early
[11:00] <bigjools> so checking that no email is sent will be fine, right?
[11:00] <wgrant> StevenK: So it's going to reject it silently?
[11:00] <wgrant> That's bad.
[11:01] <StevenK> wgrant: There's no changes file and no blamer
[11:01] <bigjools> if there's no changes file what else can be done?
[11:01] <wgrant> Ah, true.
[11:01] <wgrant> Delayed copies must die.
[11:01] <bigjools> nearly there!
[11:01] <bigjools> my branch today does some of the PCJ attachment to API copies
[11:06]  * StevenK prods bigjools :-P
[11:07] <bigjools> StevenK: fix the test to check for no email, examining the debug log is gross
[11:08] <bigjools> that is the intention of the change, right?  To not blow up by attempting to send email with corrupt data (no PU)
[11:13] <StevenK> bigjools: Done.
[11:13] <bigjools> StevenK: I approved you already
[11:13] <StevenK> bigjools: Danke
[11:13] <bigjools> bitte
[11:14] <StevenK> Bring on longpoll
[11:17] <jml> StevenK: how long do we have to wait
[11:18] <jml> it's been two weeks since I saw a working demo
[11:18] <bigjools> blame lifeless, he wants all this deployment gubbins done :)
[11:18] <StevenK> I'm so tempted to reply with 'Oh noes'
[11:19] <jml> bigjools: what sort of deployment gubbins?
[11:20] <bigjools> it will be the first time we've done something with the new SOA, so the longpoll server needs its own deployment story.  We also need better metrics on it and Rabbit
[11:20] <bigjools> we'll probably look at it agan when DDs are done.
[11:20] <bigjools> and when I say "better", I mean "some" :)
[11:21] <jml> bigjools: quite a lot of stuff then
[11:21] <jml> bigjools: it'd be nice to be able to see how an external contributor could help.
[11:22] <bigjools> jml: the best place would be to help us get metrics since the rest of it's internal
[11:23] <jml> bigjools: got a list of the things you need & the format you need them in?
[11:23] <bigjools> that's a better question for lifeless
[11:23] <bigjools> let me dig up some bugs though
[11:24] <bigjools> hmm no bugs
[11:24] <lifeless> jml: the bugs are all linked from the LEP
[11:25] <bigjools> there we go
[11:25] <jml> lifeless: ok, thanks.
[11:40] <LPCIBot> Project db-devel build #720: FAILURE in 5 hr 13 min: https://lpci.wedontsleep.org/job/db-devel/720/
[11:43] <cjwatson> is https://dev.launchpad.net/PolicyAndProcess/DatabaseSchemaChangesProcess active as of now?  should I be refactoring my multiarch-translations branch to separate out the schema patch?
[11:49] <lifeless> cjwatson: yes
[11:49] <wgrant> lifeless says yes, but I doubt it.
[11:49] <wgrant> But for yours it can't hurt.
[11:49] <lifeless> wgrant: you also doubted making LP faster ;)
[11:49] <wgrant> lifeless: Yeah, but that didn't go from 0 to implemented in three weeks :)
[11:49] <lifeless> wgrant: indeed, it was faster :P
[11:50] <lifeless> wgrant: I want a consult with you wearing your tz-friendly soyuz-internals-specialist about the buildmaster + db resets tomorrow, if you have time
[11:51] <wgrant> lifeless: Ewww, but maybe.
[11:51] <cjwatson> wgrant: seeing as I don't really want to wait for Aug 12 :-)
[11:52] <lifeless> cjwatson: oh, for clarity
[11:52] <lifeless> cjwatson: we need *patches* to abide by that now.
[11:52] <lifeless> cjwatson: we're not live on the *deployment* side of it yet, but we're aiming to be doing that rather than a 90 minute downtime in august
[11:52] <bigjools> lifeless: FWIW I don't think the buildmaster has any issues, when I was writing it I often killed it mid-cycle and there's lots of code to recover from Bad Stuff.
[11:53] <lifeless> bigjools: thats a great comfort
[11:53] <lifeless> bigjools: did you try taking the db out from under it ?
[11:53] <wgrant> bigjools: There are a couple of consistency issues that are just about impossible to track down.
[11:53] <wgrant> But they are rare.
[11:53] <lifeless> bigjools: I figure we'll need some reconnection glue
[11:53] <bigjools> lifeless: I didn't test that.
[11:53] <cjwatson> OK; if, for the sake of argument, I posted the db part of that patch separately, might I expect it to be deployed before Aug 12?
[11:53] <bigjools> all our daemons will need reconnection glue I expect
[11:53] <lifeless> cjwatson: expect no. Pleasantly surprised, I hope so.
[11:53] <cjwatson> (and how are you tracking dependencies between the separated-out db-devel and devel targeted branches?)
[11:54] <lifeless> bigjools: https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bugs?field.tag=fastdowntime
[11:54] <bigjools> yes :)
[11:54] <lifeless> cjwatson: for your branch, you'll need to land both components on db-devel (because we're not live on the incremental deploy steps yet)
[11:54] <lifeless> cjwatson: but you need to land them in separate landings so we know the schema change doesn't break existing code.
[11:55] <cjwatson> ok, makes sense
[11:56] <bigjools> I think I am in love with bzr switch
[11:56] <bigjools> how can I break this to my wife
[11:56] <lifeless> bigjools: offer her preferred-courtesan status
[11:56] <lifeless> bigjools: 'same job, better perks'
[11:57] <bigjools> "cour·te·san (kôr t -z n, k r -). n. A woman prostitute"
[11:57] <bigjools> she'll love that
[11:58] <nigelb> We desperately need an Ubuntu quotes db.
[11:58] <nigelb> :)
[11:59] <bigjools> perhaps some bzr-backed wiki?  *cough*
[12:13] <StevenK> nigelb: No, we *don't*.
[12:19] <nigelb> StevenK: heh
[12:19] <nigelb> StevenK: Why not? :-)
[12:19] <StevenK> Because quotes pages are dangerous.
[12:20] <StevenK> And productivity sinks. Ubuntu has enough of those. :-)
[12:20] <nigelb> Hah
[12:26] <benji> StevenK: that should go on the quotes page
[13:44] <jcsackett> henninge: ping.
[13:54] <henninge> jcsackett: Hi! ;)
[13:54] <jcsackett> henninge: hi, i'm looking at https://code.launchpad.net/~henninge/launchpad/bug-740208-ws-regression/+merge/67937, and had one question.
[13:54] <henninge> jcsackett: ask away
[13:54] <jcsackett> is this just you addressing a wart in the code you found, or was this Text/Diff thing responsible for an issue found in qa?
[13:55] <henninge> It was causing an oops
[13:55] <jcsackett> henninge: ok, then is it possible to create a test showing the oops doesn't happen anymore as part of this branch, to prove it's the fix?
[13:55] <henninge> jcsackett: Sorry, I just realized I forgot to mention more context.
[13:56] <jcsackett> henninge: no worries. just leads to me bugging you on IRC. :-)
[13:56] <henninge> jcsackett: I could try but it is a test for a corner case.
[13:57] <jcsackett> henninge: how "corner" are we talking? major pain to set up the testcase?
[13:58] <henninge> jcsackett: I am not sure. There are tests that don't trigger the error so I think something is still missing to create the same situation as in production.
[13:58] <henninge> jcsackett: But I am happy to give it a try.
[14:00] <henninge> jcsackett: did you claim the review? deryck had offered to review it. Just to avoid double work.
[14:01] <jcsackett> henninge: i was just looking it over. i claimed it, but can abstain in a comment and assign it to deryck, if he has more context to look at it with. :-)
[14:01]  * deryck doesn't mind jcsackett taking it, but is happy to do it, too
[14:01] <jcsackett> deryck, henninge: I'm OCR today, so i may as well finish it up. :-)
[14:01] <deryck> jcsackett, henninge -- works for me. :)
[14:02] <henninge> jcsackett: go ahead ;)
[14:02] <deryck> Fresh eyes are nice as well.
[14:02] <henninge> yup
[14:04] <flacoste> bigjools: i need to QA https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/805634
[14:04] <flacoste> bigjools: what do you suggest? I ask a losa to run populate-archive on qastaging and check the builds priority?
[14:05] <bigjools> flacoste: yes, that should work
[14:05] <bigjools> flacoste: or staging
[14:08] <flacoste> bigjools: any easy way to look at an archives builds from the UI? or should I use API, or poke the DB?
[14:08] <bigjools> flacoste: yes it'll appear in the UI
[14:08] <bigjools> flacoste: <distro>/+archives
[14:09] <bigjools> and you can examine the builds
[14:11] <abentley> deryck: chat?
[14:13] <jcsackett> henninge: given the corner-case issue, i think this looks fine. esp as the actual diff is fairly trivial. r=me.
[14:13] <henninge> jcsackett: thank you! ;)
[14:14] <deryck> abentley, sure.  let me fire up mumble.
[15:09] <flacoste> danilos: can you update the description of bug 775691 to clearly describe the low-priority corner case that it is? please
[15:10] <flacoste> gmb: i think i have the solution to your problem, and it's netierh #1, #2, or #3
[15:10] <flacoste> gmb: i'm confirming my hunch and writing a reply
[15:13] <gmb> flacoste: Cool, thanks.
[15:19] <abentley> deryck: is there a way of testing whether an object is an lp.client.Entry?
[15:20] <abentley> deryck: I would have thought you could do prototype [15:21] <deryck> abentley, instanceof will work.
[15:21] <deryck> abentley, x instanceof y
[15:21] <deryck> I don't know if yui 3 has some wrapper around this to make it nicer.
[15:23] <deryck> abentley, so a docs search shows me Assert.isInstanceOf and Y.instanceOf
[15:23] <abentley> deryck: cool.
[15:31] <flacoste> gmb: hunch failed... writing reply :-(
[15:34] <gmb> flacoste: Boo. Oh well.
[15:47] <jkakar> I'm regularly getting logged out of Launchpad... is that a temporary issue or was some change made to make this happen?
[15:48] <gary_poster> jkakar, temporary.  dbs were flipped around.
[15:49] <gary_poster> danilos, jtv, neither of you are here, but if you had a better idea on triaging https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/810309 that would be great
[15:49] <_mup_> Bug #810309: Translator credits appear duplicated <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/810309 >
[15:49] <jtv> gary_poster: I am here.
[15:50] <gary_poster> jtv, why for goodness sake? :-)
[15:50] <jtv> gary_poster: I'm in Europe, where it's still more or less working-day hours.
[15:50] <gary_poster> oh, ok, didn't know jtv
[15:51] <jtv> This bug looks like some kind of nasty loop behaviour between imports and exports.
[15:52] <jkakar> gary_poster: Cool, thanks.
[15:52] <jtv> oh, hi jkakar!
[15:53] <jkakar> jtv: Hi! :)
[16:34]  * deryck goes offline for lunch, back online in an hour
[16:44]  * bigjools waves at jcsackett
[16:48] <jcsackett> heya, bigjools.
[16:48] <bigjools> howdy jcsackett.  May I push a review in your direction please?
[16:48] <jcsackett> certainly.
[16:48] <bigjools> https://code.launchpad.net/~julian-edwards/launchpad/async-copying-part-2/+merge/67989
[16:49] <bigjools> thanks
[17:00] <jcsackett> bigjools: r=me.
[17:01] <bigjools> jcsackett: thanking you sir
[17:11] <LPCIBot> Yippie, build fixed!
[17:11] <LPCIBot> Project devel build #889: FIXED in 5 hr 59 min: https://lpci.wedontsleep.org/job/devel/889/
[17:19] <LPCIBot> Yippie, build fixed!
[17:19] <LPCIBot> Project db-devel build #721: FIXED in 5 hr 39 min: https://lpci.wedontsleep.org/job/db-devel/721/
[18:04] <flacoste> deryck, gary_poster: a new escalated bug by ISD: https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/810626
[18:04] <_mup_> Bug #810626: launchpad should mark required sreg attributes  as required <escalated> <Canonical SSO provider:New> <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/810626 >
[18:04] <flacoste> should be fairly shallow
[18:04] <deryck> flacoste, cool, thanks.
[18:04] <gary_poster> flacoste, cool, yeah, we were asking you about that one on ops
[18:04] <flacoste> but it blocks them deploying their new version as it's a potential source of problems for us
[18:05] <gary_poster> cool
[18:05] <deryck> gary_poster, what will it be?  orange or yellow?  rock, paper, scissors, lizard, Spock for it?
[18:05] <flacoste> i've only marked the one about making the fields required Critical
[18:06] <flacoste> since the other one, is only relevant when we handle multiple OPs
[18:06] <flacoste> so I marked it Low
[18:06] <gary_poster> deryck, whoever gets to first :-) we've got a couple of escalated in progress already
[18:06]  * flacoste thinks Orange should contribute to the escalated effort ;-)
[18:06] <deryck> indeed we can :)
[18:07] <flacoste> Yellow has 3 potential fixes for the week
[18:07]  * deryck didn't realize yellow had escalated bugs already
[18:07] <gary_poster> yellow hears "escalated" and comes running!  It might be...fun, or something?!
[18:08] <deryck> :-)
[18:08] <deryck> flacoste, gary_poster -- we've got a card on orange next lane now for it.
[18:09] <gary_poster> cool
[18:34] <abentley> bac: because your getnewcache is based on my json-serialisation, merging from devel creates criss-cross merges and screws up the diffs between my branch and yours.  Could you please refrain from that in the future?
[18:35] <abentley> bac: And could you please pull my ~abentley/launchpad/getnewcache, where I've fixed the criss-cross?
[18:39] <abentley> deryck: a closer look at the update_cache code shows it's correctly updating the plain json objects, rather than replacing them with Entry objects.
[18:41] <deryck> abentley, ok, thanks for the update.
[18:55] <SpamapS> Is there an API call I can do to get this list: https://code.launchpad.net/principia/oneiric
[19:34] <abentley> SpamapS: Yes: getBranches
[19:35] <abentley> SpamapS: Actually, that's on DistroSourcePackage, not DistroSeries.
[19:37] <SpamapS> abentley: you got me all excited.. ;-)
[19:37] <abentley> SpamapS: It probably exists as a method, just not exported yet.
[19:43] <gary_poster> sinzui, I'm about to file a bug about the send-person-notifications script not logging errors to the filesystem.  Am I right, or did I simply miss it?  AFAIK, one can only get the error reports from the launchpad-error-reports list, which I think is bad.
[19:43] <sinzui> gary_poster, I did not find the log. report the bug
[19:43] <gary_poster> thanks sinzui
[19:51] <lifeless> gary_poster: well it should be oopsing
[19:51] <lifeless> gary_poster: have you looked for an OOPS yet ?
[19:51] <lifeless> gary_poster: changing from stderr to a log file is an RT generally, if its a Launchpad*Script
[19:52] <gary_poster> lifeless, looked for OOPS: how and where would I do so?  I am only aware of a "if you know the OOPS id then you are in luck" interface
[19:52] <lifeless> they all get rsynced to carob
[21:23] <lifeless> flacoste: on bug 810623
[21:23] <_mup_> Bug #810623: launchpad oopses when no sreg attributes are returned by SSO <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/810623 >
[21:24] <lifeless> flacoste: I think we should keep to the oops->critical, but do a real simple fix - make it a UFD or BadRequest
[21:24] <lifeless> flacoste: or
[21:24] <lifeless> flacoste: close it invalid
[21:52] <poolie_> hi all
[21:59] <flacoste> lifeless: might want to leave a comment
[21:59] <flacoste> deryck's squad can sort it out when they work on the main one
[22:00] <lifeless> flacoste: I will, wanted to discuss with you first ;)
[22:00] <lifeless> flacoste: so we didn't get in a bidding war
[22:00] <lifeless> flacoste: I favour the first case
[22:01] <flacoste> lifeless: i'm easy today, so whatever :-)
[22:01] <lifeless> heh, ok
[22:01] <poolie_> re https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/807383 in theory it ought to be possible to work out which oops a particular user hit, shouldn't it?
[22:01] <poolie_> s//oughtn't it?
[22:02] <poolie_> or is it just a case of, if they don't work hard enough to report it we don't have a special bug for it?
[22:04] <lifeless> its not easy to find the right one (we log oops *files* for things we don't count as OOPS. [thats a bug]).
[22:04] <lifeless> also, we're still swamped, so its not like we're at the point [yet] of picking up the 3 or 4 unique oopses from the daily report and driving them to zero.
[22:18] <lifeless> poolie_: actually, another way to put it is: we track all oopses and well get them all eventually; if soneone wants to jump queue - manually filing a bug for us, thats fine, but then the onus is on them to help us out
[22:26] <poolie_> right
[22:26] <poolie_> that's pretty much what i though
[22:26] <poolie_> t
[22:35] <lifeless> oh wow
[22:35] <lifeless> sinzui: why ?
[22:35] <lifeless> New member:
[22:35] <lifeless>  (Choose…)
[22:35] <lifeless> You can't add a team that doesn't have any active members.
[22:35] <lifeless> sinzui: adding ~canonical-launchpad-emeritus to https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-emeritus/+addmember
  The most recent 90 minute downtime was the last ever.
[22:36] <poolie_> would be nice
[22:47] <LPCIBot> Project devel build #890: FAILURE in 5 hr 36 min: https://lpci.wedontsleep.org/job/devel/890/
[23:00] <sinzui> lifeless, I have never seen that issue show up. I do not know why Lp wont let you
[23:00] <sinzui> m
[23:01] <LPCIBot> Project db-devel build #722: FAILURE in 5 hr 41 min: https://lpci.wedontsleep.org/job/db-devel/722/
[23:04] <sinzui> StevenK, mumble?
[23:13] <lifeless> sinzui: I think its a mistake, because a team can be emptied after including in another team
[23:13] <lifeless> sinzui: any objection to a jfdi fix ?
[23:15] <sinzui> please jfdi
[23:22] <StevenK> win 24
[23:23] <nigelb> fail? :)
[23:23]  * StevenK kicks nigelb :-P
[23:24]  * nigelb has had a sleepless night :/
[23:25] <wgrant> lifeless: When do you want to talk?
[23:25] <lifeless> when I get off the phone with allison :)
[23:26] <lifeless> 15?
[23:29] <wgrant> Sure
[23:29] <wgrant> Attack of the TAs?
[23:29] <lifeless> :P
[23:29] <nigelb> lol
[23:30] <nigelb> wallyworld_: What time do you EOD?
[23:30] <wallyworld_> nigelb: i've only just started my day
[23:30] <nigelb> wallyworld_: I'm about to head to bed on a /very/ late night thanks to work.
[23:31] <wallyworld_> nigelb: do you want to ping me later?
[23:31] <nigelb> wallyworld_: Yeah, that's why I was trying to figure out what's your usual EOD to plan that.
[23:32] <wallyworld_> nigelb: ah, right. i'll be here for another 8-9 hours, plus i can be online tonight. there'll be a few hours in the even when i have soccer
[23:33] <wallyworld_> s/even/evening
[23:33] <nigelb> wallyworld_: In that case, I think I can figure out something today. I'll keep my devel up-to-date
[23:34] <wallyworld_> nigelb: ok. i'll wait to hear from you
[23:35] <wallyworld_> aaarrghhh. did qastaging just die?
[23:39] <wgrant> wallyworld_: Looks fine to me. Maybe it just updated.
[23:40] <wgrant> Shouldn't have, though.
[23:40] <wallyworld_> wgrant: it just came back now
[23:41] <wallyworld_> wgrant: could you do me a favour to help me qa? could you subscribe someone (not you or me) to a branch you own and then change the owner to launchpad and let me know which branch?
[23:41] <wgrant> lifeless: Do you still only do Skype?
[23:43] <wgrant> wallyworld_: https://code.qastaging.launchpad.net/~launchpad/launchpad/db-devel-merge-fix
[23:43] <wallyworld_> wgrant: awesome thanks
[23:44]  * wallyworld_ marks his bug as qa-ok
[23:44] <wgrant> Thanks!
[23:44] <wallyworld_> s/bug/branch
[23:45]  * wgrant goes to use canonicaladmin for a while, to acclimatise himself to crap software before using Skype.
[23:45] <wallyworld_> lol
[23:46] <wallyworld_> skype isn't that bad. it has pretty good echo cancellation
[23:46] <wallyworld_> seems to work better than mumble often times
[23:46] <wgrant> The echo cancellation is the only thing that is not crap.
[23:46] <wgrant> Well, and the NAT traversal.
[23:46] <wallyworld_> they're pretty important features, no?
[23:47] <wgrant> Yes, but the software itself is crap.
[23:47] <wgrant> Crashy, slow, ugly.
[23:48] <lifeless> wgrant: its easiest in a bunch of ways, if you don't mind significant feedback I can do voip
[23:48] <wgrant> I have Skype not crashing now.
[23:48] <wgrant> So we can use it.
[23:48] <lifeless> \o/
[23:59] <michaelh1> Hi there.  I'd like to import the GDB 7.3 release branch into Launchpad.  They use CVS and have a GIT mirror.  Who should I ask? (mwhudson is away)


[01:35] <diddledan> there's a "tremors 5"?!
[01:45] <zmoylan-pi> i haven't even seen 4...
[01:46] <zmoylan-pi> i must have a rummage in dvd shops in dublin...
[01:53] <Seeker`> I'm not convinced they can be good films :P
[01:53] <Seeker`> 1 was awesome though
[01:56] <zmoylan-pi> 2 was excellent and 3 had it's moments
[01:57] <zmoylan-pi> worth a punt on buying 4 on dvd
[03:06] <zmoylan-pi> i also recommend the movies, malcolm and the gods must be crazy as movies most people have never heard of but are very good
[08:21] <davmor2> Morning all
[08:23] <popey> yo
[08:24]  * davmor2 has this stuck in his head this morning amongst many others https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhrBDcQq2DM  Late 80's and early 90's dance mash up today me thinks
[08:29] <davmor2> corona this is the rhythm of the night
[08:54] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy Curious Events Day! 😃
[09:03] <davmor2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MN7JzGC-yw4
[09:06] <davmor2> JamesTait: or anything by curiosity killed the cat, down to earth, free or misfit
[09:09] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[09:09] <davmor2> bigcalm: OMG you are on and it's morning
[09:10] <bigcalm> davmor2: stranger things have happened at sea
[09:10] <bigcalm> You know I'm now likely to idle for the next 8 hours
[09:12] <davmor2> bigcalm: so a normal day then?
[09:12] <bigcalm> Aye
[09:15] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[09:16] <bigcalm> \o
[09:16] <zmoylan-pi> greetings mammals
[09:17] <bashrc_> hello earthlings
[09:17] <brobostigon> :)
[09:17] <davmor2> Ice Ice Baby
[19:21] <SuperEngineer> anyone know title/name of the Linux Voice podcast theme tune [BradSucks is the artist]
[19:22] <SuperEngineer> [asked on #linuxvoice but boy is that channel quiet!]
[19:24] <zmoylan-pi> tis the weekend and everyone is either gone home or asleep
[19:26] <SuperEngineer> zmoylan-pi, & just as that is recieved... so is an answer on linuxvoice :D
[22:04] <diddledan> oh looks like CBS have canned the halle berry series extant


[06:49] <tjaalton> LocutusOfBorg: llvm-16 needs to be built with libllvmspirvlib-16-dev, libclc-16 is missing files for mesa to build
[06:50] <tjaalton> on debian too
[07:12] <LocutusOfBorg> tjaalton, uploaded in Debian, will sync in Ubuntu later
[07:13] <LocutusOfBorg> please try
[07:14] <tjaalton> once it has built, sure :)
[07:59] <_doko> LocutusOfBorg: now again 8 jobs instead of 2 in llvm? did you *test* that, or is this just try-and-error?
[08:00] <LocutusOfBorg> I did test it, yes
[08:01] <LocutusOfBorg> https://launchpad.net/~costamagnagianfranco/+archive/ubuntu/locutusofborg-ppa/+sourcepub/15033812/+listing-archive-extra
[08:01] <LocutusOfBorg> now that I can build riscv64 on my ppa
[08:02] <LocutusOfBorg> we take half the time
[08:02] <_doko> ta
[08:02] <LocutusOfBorg> the problem of build failed with no logs was probably something like "hey the infra reboots riscv every couple of days because of some instability"
[08:02] <LocutusOfBorg> so, the less it takes, the better we are :D
[08:03] <LocutusOfBorg> and bad me for not mentioning in changelog
[09:55] <tjaalton> LocutusOfBorg: some sort of bootstrapping with some archs?
[09:55] <tjaalton> +issue
[11:05] <ginggs> @pilot in
[14:52] <rbasak> ahasenack: looking at your samba SRU upload for F and J. Why remove the upstream tests?
[14:52] <rbasak> Are they not run at build time?
[14:59] <ahasenack> rbasak: those tests are not run at build time, they are specific upstream tests, "torture tests"
[15:01] <ginggs> @pilot out
[15:01] <ginggs> thank you for flying Ubuntu Air!
[16:47] <GunnarHj> paride: What did you decide wrt langpacks in 22.04?


[05:36] <coz_> hey all
[17:30] <mac_v> kwwii: no 3 > http://linuxologist.com/general/7-instances-of-kde-appearances-on-the-silver-screen/
[17:30] <mac_v> ;)
[18:09] <kwwii> mac_v: hehe, cool...I love seeing stuff like that
[18:13] <zniavre> http://pc-hacks.blogspot.com/2007/10/make-up-over-your-windows-look-like.html
[18:16] <mac_v> kwwii: can we get a cursor refresh for Lucid? ;)
[19:22] <kwwii> mac_v: if we had something better we could consider it
[19:23] <ckontros> zniavra: Any luck with the Nautilus throbbers?
[19:24] <mac_v> kwwii: thats always the tough part :)
[19:24] <kwwii> ;)
[19:25] <zniavre> ckontros, not really i tried only one time (computer is too slow to do something easily)
[19:29] <ckontros> Darn
[19:35] <zniavre> i got one garbage 900mhz pc with too many ram and one laptop 2.8ghz 128mo RAM both are unusable
[19:36] <ckontros> Ouch. Well, if you want, do you want the outputted files?
[19:36] <ckontros> I can email them.
[19:47] <zniavre> no thank you i ll manage to learn it another day


[03:27] <Jeffrey04> just wanna ask if there's a page collecting known bugs for the dev release?
[03:29] <Jeffrey04> just found out that my input method preferences window not opening through the gnome-settings app, also I can't open any extensions preferences (tried the webpage, tweak tool, and `gnome-extensions` command, the shipped extensions app is broken)
[03:29] <Jeffrey04> I upgraded to 20.04 from 19.10 last week
[03:31] <Jeffrey04> I also resetted gnome https://askubuntu.com/questions/56313/how-do-i-reset-gnome-to-the-defaults and also deleted all my extensions before reinstalling them
[03:59] <lotuspsychje> good morning
[04:17] <valorie>   Jeffrey04 bug reports are collected on the qa site from testers
[04:18] <valorie> please join #ubuntu-quality if you are willing to help out
[05:15] <lotuspsychje> valorie: should we divide bug testing and support in the several channels now?
[05:32] <valorie> lotuspsychje: no? that's the one for those who want to test ISOs and report bugs
[05:33] <lotuspsychje> oh allrighty
[05:33] <valorie> I see this channel as more generally about 20.04, right?
[05:33] <valorie> I see most questions here about the main Ubuntu
[05:34] <valorie> the flavors got together to help one another do ISO testing
[05:34] <lotuspsychje> but in here, we also test the daily iso's right
[05:34] <valorie> of course we also test main Ubuntu and file bugs there too
[05:34] <valorie> some are, yes
[05:34] <lotuspsychje> and -quality will server everything + flavours ?
[05:34] <lotuspsychje> *serve
[05:34] <valorie> I haven't seen much discussion about logging into the qa tracker and filing bug reports however
[05:35] <valorie> yes, it's for all testing between now and release
[05:35] <lotuspsychje> yeah the last 2 lts testing, have been bit poor
[05:35] <valorie> I imagine it will go dead for awhile after that
[05:35] <valorie> yes
[05:35] <valorie> we need to do better if we want a top-notch release IMO
[05:36] <lotuspsychje> desktop seems like having great changes already i think
[05:36] <lotuspsychje> filed about 15 bugs myself this time
[05:37] <lotuspsychje> looking forward to final :p
[05:38] <valorie> thanks for doing that, lotuspsychje
[05:39] <lotuspsychje> its my pleasure valorie its for the community and my own business benefits aswell
[05:39] <valorie> <3
[05:39] <lotuspsychje> we also have a little pre filter bug team at #ubuntu-bugs-announce
[05:40] <lotuspsychje> to ease the work of the devs a bit
[05:40] <lotuspsychje> still needs more souls to help though
[05:41] <valorie> cool
[05:41] <valorie> all I can do is some testing and BRs
[05:41] <valorie> every little bit helps
[05:41] <lotuspsychje> yeah
[08:41] <Jeffrey04> valorie: sorry, wasnt paying attention to the page and got disconnected, just got ur message in logs, so what do I need to do to submit report to #ubuntu-quality or is there a wiki page listing out all known issues?
[10:20] <alkisg> Hi, I'm trying to install viber.deb in 20.04, and it says:  viber : Depends: libssl1.0.0 but it is not installable
[10:21] <alkisg> Can I just install that package from bionic?
[10:24] <alkisg> OK yeah that worked :)
[10:54] <DalekSec> I wouldn't recommend it, I'm guessing you can't rebuild that though?
[11:13] <takov751> hello there. :D
[11:14] <takov751> I have real FAQ question. Where is the best place to report small bugs about a few snap packages? Should i go straight for launchpad?
[11:24] <DalekSec> Does the snap store have bug reporting?
[11:28] <tarzeau> DalekSec: which snap do you use that's not available as deb?
[11:29] <takov751> Well its just the acrordrdc snap. I cant find any contact on the snapcraft store site. So at this moment i am planing to post on forum.snapcraft.io
[11:29] <takov751> for now
[11:30] <DalekSec> tarzeau: I have never in my life used a snap, I think you have the wrong person.
[12:11] <tarzeau> takov751: oh that's not free software, otherwise ping me i'll package anything to deb, that's available as snap but not deb
[12:11] <tarzeau> DalekSec: sorry, just figured later - me too, welcome to the club
[12:12] <DalekSec> tarzeau: Pretty sure you mentioned that to me on OFTC as Unit193?
[12:12] <tarzeau> DalekSec: yeah and it's valid for anyone on the world
[12:40]  * alkisg still waits for a .deb for chromium :D https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/chromium/+bug/1855594
[12:41] <alkisg> Oh. Won't fix? When did that happen...
[12:56] <DalekSec> PPA?
[12:56] <alkisg> For chromium? I don't think there's a PPA that's still maintained
[12:57] <alkisg> Since this was marked "won't fix", I guess those like me that want to avoid snaps, will use google's chrome instead (or debian wherever applicable)
[13:33] <ziky__01> heyo I might've found a bit of a bug with the 20.04 version upon install. I don't believe it checks whether a current drive is MBR or GPT when it auto boots into the UEFI version of an install.
[13:34] <ziky__01> it crashes when running the grub commands and practically makes the system unbootable without reinstalling grub using a usb
[13:40] <ziky__01> wanted to put this out there in case it breaks anyones system and they wonder why
[14:05] <Hamilton> What is the state of this problem? Would it be fixed in 20.04?
[14:05] <Hamilton> https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/keyboard-layout-switching-problems-and-poll/2876/2
[14:05] <Hamilton> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=22725
[14:52] <alkisg> Hamilton: erm what? I have alt_shift_toggle (Greek) and I've always been able to switch vt
[14:52] <alkisg> Are you using plain old xorg keyboard switching, or something like fcitx, ibus etc?
[14:53] <Hamilton> alkisg, And switch to tty1 shortcut is Alt+shift+f1?
[14:53] <alkisg> Yes
[14:53] <alkisg> But note that xorg runs on vt1 since some time
[14:53] <alkisg> Ah
[14:53] <alkisg> Sorry, my bad, alt+ctrl+f1, didn't see the change there
[14:53] <Hamilton> alkisg, I'm on i3...If I use alt+shift, it messed with other shortcuts like dark-mode-toggle in firefox
[14:53] <alkisg> OK nevermind my remarks :)
[14:55] <alkisg> In the freedesktop bug you linked, he says "alt+ctrl+f1", not "alt+shift+f1"... didn't notice you're talking about something else
[15:02] <Hamilton> alkisg, I thing the bug is the same if you have other shortcuts containing alt+ctrl...Solution is  it should register the language switch on release (like windows) not press
[18:30] <lotuspsychje> hansh: its coming up great already
[18:30] <lotuspsychje> hansh: faster, smoother, new things added
[18:31] <hansh> neat, btw what happens if one runs `sudo apt install g++-9` in 20.04 ?
[18:31] <hansh> (18.04 try to install clang-9 on that command, hope things are better in 20.04)
[18:32] <lotuspsychje> !info clangd-9
[18:32] <hansh> !info g++-9
[18:32] <lotuspsychje> hansh: did you install it from repo or a ppa?
[18:33] <hansh> in 18.04? base repos i believe
[18:35] <TJ-> in 18.04 g++-9 redirects to clang-9 ... but I don't see it as a Provides: of clang-9 which would make it virtual
[18:36] <lotuspsychje> in 20.04 it pulls: lib32gcc-s1 lib32gcc1 lib32stdc++6 libc6-i386 libclang-common-9-dev
[18:37] <lotuspsychje> and clangd-9 lib32gcc-s1 lib32gcc1 lib32stdc++6 libc6-i386 libclang-common-9-dev
[18:40] <TJ-> what's weird is I cannot find mention in 18.04's dpkg/apt directories of "g++-9" at all!
[21:37] <ali1234> how do i install CUDA runtime on server without installing X?
[21:37] <ali1234> all the answers to this on google no longer work on +1
[21:40] <ali1234> would be nice if this was one of the options in the server set up along side docker etc
[21:46] <valorie> Jeffrey04: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam is a good place to start
[21:47] <valorie> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/ is where you log your testing and bug reports
[21:47] <genii> ali1234: The usual way is to set up a virtual X server with something like Xvfb to fool whatever thinks it needs X installed as a dependency.It will install some X things, but very minimal
[21:47] <ali1234> CUDA doesn't need X installed
[21:48] <ali1234> it is just that the nvidia driver has a hard dependency on X11 packages
[21:48] <ali1234> but that's the top level meta package
[21:49] <ali1234> there is a way to install only the core driver, but apparently it has changed on +1
[21:49] <oerheks> sudo apt-get install --no-install-recommends cuda # something like that?
[21:49] <ali1234> something like that, yes, except the cuda package no longer exists on +1
[21:50] <ali1234> now there is "nvidia-cuda-toolkit" but it has no dependency on the nvidia driver
[21:50] <ali1234> it does have a recommends on X11 though, for some reason
[21:53] <ali1234> ah i think i want nvidia-headless-440
[21:55] <ali1234> "sudo apt install --no-install-recommends nvidia-headless-440 nvidia-cuda-toolkit" looks reasonable
[22:17] <grunch_> Having trouble getting display scaling working with two displays with different resolutions. 200% on Dell XPS 15 "most" app windows are not scaled; 100% on external Samsung results in what appears to be 1/2-sized app windows. Any pointers?


[12:41] <jerry760poip_>  hi i got a question not sure if this is were to ask
[12:41] <jerry760poip_> i have had 6 days ago F.B.I. call me.
[12:41] <jerry760poip_> they said i have been having to much net activity.
[12:41] <jerry760poip_> from torrented movies i told them i did not do it.
[12:41] <jerry760poip_> and for the past 5 days they went to my uncle's and two cousin's work asking about me.
[12:41] <jerry760poip_> and showing them my picture.
[12:41] <jerry760poip_> now they have the home number to where i am so why havent they just come straight to me?
[12:41] <jerry760poip_> one i do not have a hdd i'm always running live cd so of course i did not
[12:41] <jerry760poip_> do it now what should i do?
[12:41] <jerry760poip_> i called attorneys none around here know what to do or where i should go.
[02:11] <mpt> Keybuk, no desktop team meeting today?
[02:11] <Keybuk> mpt: public distro team meeting later
[02:14] <mpt> Keybuk, do they alternate weeks?
[02:15] <Keybuk> public entire development team meeting is monthly
[02:15] <cjwatson> well, four-weekly
[02:16] <mpt> ok
[04:21] <evand> @schedule New_York
[04:21] <ubotu> Schedule for America/New_York: 11 Oct 11:00: Community Development Team | 16 Oct 12:00: Kernel Team | 17 Oct 12:00: QA Team | 23 Oct 11:00: Server Team | 23 Oct 12:00: Kernel Team | 30 Oct 12:00: Kernel Team
[04:59] <calc> hi
[04:59] <pitti> hey calc
[04:59] <Riddell> hi
[04:59] <ArneGoetje> hi
[04:59] <calc> pitti: there is the final ooo upload in progress, it was supposed to have completed last night but i had some sort of computer/network trouble, looked at it today and it was just hung in the middle
[05:00] <Riddell> not RC critical I hope :)
[05:00] <pitti> calc: ah, great; the one which disables java on powerpc? any other changes?
[05:00] <pitti> calc: (changes must be minimal at this point)
[05:00] <pitti> calc: fixing sparc would be awesome, but I understand that's more luck than engineering?
[05:00] <calc> pitti: yea disables java on ppc, disables portaudio v19, and has translation update for menu items
[05:00] <davmor2> Riddell: not on your own :)
[05:01] <pitti> ah
[05:01] <pitti> hi slangasek
[05:01] <calc> pitti: seems to be, according to doko it seems to ICE on one box nearly every time but works on a different one
[05:01] <mdz> good afternoon folks
[05:01] <evand> hi
[05:02] <doko> pitti: it's not reproducible. point.
[05:02] <mdz> we didn't do much preparation for this meeting, as I think many of us forgot about it due to the release crunch :-)
[05:02] <mdz> #startmeeting
[05:02] <MootBot> Meeting started at 16:02. The chair is mdz.
[05:02] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC] , [IDEA] , [ACTION] , [AGREED] , [LINK] , [VOTE]
[05:02] <pitti> doko: right, so some buildd prodding might help (that's what I meant with 'luck' :) )
[05:02] <doko> pitti: with the next upload, stop the buildd on sejong so it goes to another buildd
[05:02] <pitti> doko: noted
[05:02] <mdz> so there isn't an agenda, and I suggest that we use this time to put our heads together regarding any outstanding issues for the release
[05:02] <pitti> Ian has one topic
[05:03] <mdz> what is it?
[05:03] <pitti> disabling auto-cryptsetup IIRC
[05:03] <pitti> but ++ for RC/final release planning, too
[05:04] <mdz> Ian doesn't seem to be here
[05:04] <cjwatson> I volunteered to make secure erase not the default, which seemed like the worst outstanding problem
[05:04] <ogra> he's next door
[05:04] <cjwatson> pitti: iirc Ian raised a cryptsetup item too; did you look at it?
[05:05] <pitti> cjwatson: I looked at his bugs briefly
[05:05] <dholbach> iwj: we are just talking about disabling auto-cryptsetup
[05:05] <pitti> of those, the erase and the 'low contrast' ones seem easy targets for final
[05:05] <cjwatson> 16:04 <cjwatson> I volunteered to make secure erase not the default, which seemed like the worst outstanding problem
[05:05] <iwj> dholbach: Aha.
[05:05] <pitti> the usability bugs are too intrusive IMHO
[05:05] <cjwatson> 16:04 <cjwatson> pitti: iirc Ian raised a cryptsetup item too; did you look at it?
[05:06] <iwj> Getting rid of the secure erase will help.
[05:06] <cjwatson> I thought we might talk about what the basic set of things we need to fix is, and from there whether that's doable
[05:06] <iwj> I think the passphrase prompt lack of prominence is quite serious actually.
[05:07] <iwj> I mean, it doesn't actually stop you but the visibility of the bug is very high (unlike that of the prompt).
[05:07] <cjwatson> bug 151264?
[05:07] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 151264 in partman-crypto "passphrase entry screen needs work" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/151264
[05:07] <iwj> Bug 64408.
[05:07] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 64408 in usplash-theme-ubuntu ""Urgent" text is poorly readable due to low contrast (blue on black)" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/64408
[05:07] <cjwatson> ah
[05:07] <pitti> iwj: I mentioned that of your bugs the 'low contrast' one seems relatively easy to fix at first sight, the others are too intrusive IMHO
[05:07] <cjwatson> damnit, we've fixed that about three times already
[05:07] <iwj> 151264 is easy to fix well enough for this case - just change the text.
[05:07] <iwj> cjwatson: No, no.
[05:07] <pitti> since it also applies to all other texts
[05:07] <pitti> like the CD check results
[05:07] <cjwatson> that also bites casper
[05:07] <mdz> bug 149511 is milestoned but appears invalid
[05:07] <iwj> cjwatson: You misunderstand.  Bug 64408 isn't that there is actually something going wrong.
[05:07] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 149511 in ubuntu-meta "[Gutsy]  hplip is not installed by default" [Critical,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/149511
[05:08] <cjwatson> iwj: we have, it keeps coming back with different themes and such
[05:08] <cjwatson> iwj: I'm familiar with the bug
[05:08] <iwj> cjwatson: AFAICT it has never done anything differently to what it does now.
[05:08] <cjwatson> iwj: sladen swore he'd fixed it
[05:08] <cjwatson> a release or two ago
[05:08] <iwj> There was a different bug which was some kind of driver problem.
[05:08] <iwj> Which made it even worse.
[05:09] <cjwatson> well, it doesn't matter. I think this one is trivial and should be on the list for final.
[05:09] <pitti> so, the general question here is whether we consider the usability bugs bad enough to disable the feature post-RC, right?
[05:09] <pitti> if we assume that we fix erase and contrast
[05:09] <iwj> pitti: Yes, I think so.
[05:09] <iwj> The prompt lacking feedback is annoying.  Can it be easily fixed ?
[05:10] <cjwatson> iwj: sorry, which prompt lacking feedback?
[05:10] <iwj> I don't think it's essential.  I think improving the passphrase setup wording is essential to stop users blowing their torso off.
[05:10] <iwj> Bug 151305
[05:10] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 151305 in cryptsetup "passphrase prompt at boot-time lacks feedback" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/151305
[05:10] <iwj> You hit return and it does nothing to say "yes, that's fine".
[05:10] <cjwatson> that ought to be a trivial matter of another usplash message
[05:10] <pitti> it should probably just delete the prompt
[05:10] <cjwatson> text-urgent ok or some such
[05:10] <pitti> or that
[05:11] <iwj> The bit of code that's actually doing the work has the ability to send the message at the right point ?
[05:11] <mdz> I don't think our time is well spent arguing this particular class of bugs, given that this is an infrequently-used non-default option on the alternate CD
[05:11] <mdz> I expect we have bigger fish to fry
[05:12] <iwj> So of the ones in my activity report I think we should fix 151244 (secure erase), 151264 (partiallly, improve the wording), 151305 (feedback) and 64408 (colour).
[05:12] <cjwatson> mdz: it's also a relatively long-awaited new feature that ISTR hearing the marketing team mentioning
[05:12] <doko> linux-source did fail to build on sparc, and I'm unsure if the smp lock problem is fixed
[05:12] <cjwatson> I think it behooves us to put a bit more effort into polishing it
[05:12] <iwj> 151266 can wait.
[05:12] <ArneGoetje> Bug 66104 needs escalation I think. Apparently there is a fix available from Redhat.
[05:12] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 66104 in scim "scim: input freezes in various applications under XIM mode" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/66104
[05:12] <cjwatson> especially since the fixes in question seem fairly trivial
[05:13] <mdz> cjwatson: it's not in any of the communications that I've seen
[05:13] <pitti> so AFAICS, the only real bad bugs are 145226 (Kubuntu OEM broken) and 147943 (panel not visible sometimes under compiz, until after clicking on it), and 151351 (xorg-video-intel/kernel desync)
[05:13] <mvo> #147943 <- that one should be fixed with latest compiz
[05:13] <mdz> the milestone list certainly still is hard to read
[05:13] <mvo> (not on the CD though)
[05:14] <Riddell> cjwatson has done good things on the Kubuntu OEM problem
[05:14] <ogra> pitti, lool is working on 151351
[05:14] <cjwatson> ArneGoetje: what do you need - a sponsor, approval, ...?
[05:14] <pitti> right, compiz is in the archive, but didn't make it to the CD
[05:14] <pitti> lool tests a fix for -intel
[05:14] <ArneGoetje> cjwatson: actually the bug is in X11... how to proceed?
[05:14] <pitti> and the Kubuntu OEM one seems to boil down to a chown (I didn't check, though)
[05:14] <cjwatson> pitti: it's not actually broken, you just get a stupid error
[05:14] <pitti> cjwatson: oh, even better
[05:14] <cjwatson> it works if you acknowledge it and move on
[05:14] <cjwatson> but yes, it's fixed in bzr now
[05:15] <pitti> fine for release-noting it then
[05:15] <mvo> ogra: that would be network-manager
[05:15] <ogra> is that something from NM ?
[05:15] <ogra> ah, right
[05:15] <ogra> pretty bad if you have bound services to static devices :)
[05:16] <highvoltage> (like LTSP servers?)
[05:16] <asac> ogra: static devices are not changed
[05:16] <ogra> highvoltage, or local webservers, samba servers etc
[05:16] <ogra> asac, ah, good
[05:16] <asac> ogra: and actually i haven't received any of those complains as a bug
[05:17] <ogra> well, i talked to people that needed it working, all three i spoke to had fixed it manually
[05:17] <ogra> and i didnt see it here yet
[05:18] <asac> ogra: tell them to report a bug
[05:18] <asac> :)
[05:18] <ogra> indeed :)
[05:18] <asac> or ping me directly
[05:18] <ogra> yup
[05:18] <bdmurray> I seem to recall one from yesterday but it was a desktop system they were using as a server
[05:18] <Riddell> bug 151311 is pretty serious, I don't know how many video cards it affects but if it's all intel ones that's bad
[05:18] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 151311 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "DPI in kubuntu incorrect on xorg-video-driver-intel" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/151311
[05:18] <mdz> shouldn't matter; the behaviour doesn't change
[05:18] <ogra> bdmurray, well, thats what i actually meant ...
[05:18] <mdz> ogra: auto DHCP interfaces are treated the same by network manager as by ifupdown
[05:19] <ogra> many people use their ubuntu install as webservers or fileservers in their lan, but if static interfaces arent touched its fine
[05:19] <evand> Does compiz leak memory like a sieve for anyone else?  It's using about 1GB here after a day.  I think it may be related to the nvidia driver fixing the "I've run out of memory, but here's a black window for your troubles" issue.
[05:19] <ogra> as i siad i couldnt reproduce it at all yet
[05:19] <davmor2> Riddell:  I think bryce has done something with it but I dont know how far he got
[05:20] <mdz> ogra: probably they were just confused because the change isn't documented in the file
[05:20] <mdz> asac: if it isn't already, it should be added to the release notes just so that users aren't surprised
[05:20] <asac> mdz: maybe we should add a comment?
[05:21] <mvo> evand: I haven't see this behavior but my main workstation is not a nvidia - I have reports from people runing it on their laptop for weeks and it is fine. the trouble is that the nvidia driver changes very frequently
[05:21] <ogra> yeah
[05:21] <mvo> evand: and each release seem to have a new set of problems
[05:21] <ogra> comment++
[05:21] <mdz> asac: wish we'd thought of it before
[05:21] <MacSlow> evand, I've not witnessed this on my nvidia-box here (gf 8800)
[05:21] <Riddell> davmor2: if not, we should look at adding a workaround to guidance, it wouldn't be hard
[05:22] <MacSlow> evand, what card/driver-version do you use_
[05:22] <MacSlow> ?
[05:22] <Keybuk> compiz is only one tenth the size of firefox for me
[05:22] <evand> MacSlow: nVidia Corporation G70 [GeForce 7300 GT]  (rev a1)
[05:23] <mvo> ArneGoetje: I think if it is not super-duper-safe we should put it into a StableReleaseUpdate
[05:23] <Keybuk> admittedly, this is damning praise, but it's certainly not of the order you've found
[05:23] <Keybuk> uptime is quite high
[05:23] <mvo> evand: that is not a mobile one, is it?
[05:23] <cjwatson> ArneGoetje: unfortunately bryce is away at the moment
[05:23] <asac> do we have a release notes drafting page in wiki where i can add that info?
[05:23] <evand> mvo: correct, this is a iMac
[05:23] <cjwatson> ArneGoetje: the upstream bug report seems to indicate that the patch doesn't really fix it though?
[05:23] <cjwatson> asac: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/GutsyGibbon/ReleaseNotes
[05:23] <evand> ii  nvidia-glx-new         100.14.19+<IP_ADDRESS>-13.6
[05:24] <ArneGoetje> cjwatson: yes, but it lowers the problem for now.
[05:24] <davmor2> Riddell: there are a couple of work rounds on the bug itself.  but bryce has put in a link and was making some deb.diff's it's all in the bug :)
[05:24] <mvo> evand: I have a testbox with the same generation of card (7600) I can give it a go
[05:24] <evand> thanks mvo.  Let me know if you need anything from me.
[05:25] <ArneGoetje> mvo: should we then change scim back to scim-immodule instead of xim?
[05:25] <cjwatson> ArneGoetje: it sounds like a possible post-release update to me
[05:25] <MacSlow> hi Amaranth
[05:26] <Amaranth> howdy
[05:26] <slangasek> mdz: "treated the same by network manager as by ifupdown" - that doesn't seem accurate to me, IME NM never brings up the network interface until user login?
[05:26] <cjwatson> I'm just looking over the patch
[05:26] <pitti> ArneGoetje: does it only affect upgrades or also fresh installs? in the former case, an SRU is almost as good as pressing it into the archive
[05:26] <mvo> ArneGoetje: I'm hesitant to change anything that is not a scim showstopper at this stage of the release, but then you know about this better than me
[05:26] <mdz> slangasek: that's only the case for authenticated networks, which require additional configuration in /etc/network/interfaces, which means they aren't touched on upgrade
[05:26] <pitti> ArneGoetje: since upgrades will directly upgrade to whatever is in -updates
[05:26] <ArneGoetje> cjwatson: ok, fine for me. but then we should probably change the default setting back to scim-immodule and put a note in the Release Notes.
[05:27] <cjwatson> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=7606&action=view is the patch for this bug, btw
[05:27] <ArneGoetje> mvo: this is a show stopper... :(
[05:27] <mvo> oh :(
[05:27] <cjwatson> ArneGoetje: what are the consequences of going back to scim-immodule?
[05:27] <slangasek> mdz: ah, ok
[05:27] <asac> slangasek: NM brings up interfaces that don't need keyring access
[05:28] <doko> ArneGoetje: weren't there problems with scim-immodule and OOo?
[05:28] <ArneGoetje> cjwatson: third party software that many users want, like skype, acroread, etc. will not work if they depend on libstdc++5
[05:28] <ArneGoetje> doko: I'm not sure about OOo... let me test.
[05:28] <mvo> ArneGoetje: what about scim-bridge (probably for hardy)? shouldn't that solve this issue?
[05:29] <doko> ArneGoetje: iirc there was a workaround to hide libstdc++5 ...
[05:29] <cjwatson> the patch seems fairly isolated to the xim bits of libx11, which is something
[05:29] <ArneGoetje> mvo: need to test if it fixes all the problems. not enought information in the bug report about this.
[05:30] <cjwatson> I'm concerned that switching scim configuration is much harder to fix in a post-release update than doing something like this libx11 patch
[05:30] <cjwatson> if we switch back to scim-immodule, I think that's the way it needs to stay for the lifetime of gutsy
[05:30] <cjwatson> whereas if we stick with xim we can fix this before or after release at RM discretion
[05:31] <mvo> evand: Amaranth just pointed me to bug #151168 (filed yesterday) about a similar problem with nvidia
[05:31] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 151168 in compiz "memory leak in compiz w/ nvidia [gutsy] " [Undecided,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/151168
[05:31] <ArneGoetje> cjwatson: what's your suggestion?
[05:33] <cjwatson> ArneGoetje: put the libx11 fix in a PPA and get as many users as possible (both xim-requiring and not) to test it over the next few days
[05:33] <cjwatson> then it'll be easier to decide whether it can go in post-rc pre-final
[05:33] <ArneGoetje> cjwatson: ok, will do.
[05:34] <evand> mvo: ah, thanks for pointing me to that
[05:34] <cjwatson> ok, anything else on the release agenda?
[05:35] <pitti> let's get this damn thing out :)
[05:35] <ogra> :)
[05:35] <cjwatson> mvo: do you think 151168 is fixable?
[05:35] <highvoltage> yay!
[05:35] <mvo> bug #151168
[05:35] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 151168 in compiz "memory leak in compiz w/ nvidia [gutsy] " [Undecided,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/151168
[05:35] <heno> Extra testing contributions are appreciated!
[05:35] <Amaranth> cjwatson: I can't even reproduce it
[05:35] <MacSlow> Amaranth, #151168 does not affect my 8800GTS either
[05:35] <mvo> cjwatson: not if its really a bug inside the nvidia driver
[05:35] <heno> Results can be filed in https://iso.qa.stgraber.org
[05:35] <cjwatson> who is going to fix that usplash theme bug?
[05:36] <pitti> the blueness?
[05:36] <Amaranth> MacSlow: That guy even has the same 7400 Go as me
[05:36] <mvo> compiz feedback welcome! if you system freeze or your keys do not work, talk to me
[05:36] <dholbach> I can't reproduce with nVidia Corporation GeForce 7100 GS (rev a1) either :-/
[05:36] <Amaranth> Maybe it's a plugin
[05:36] <mvo> Amaranth: do you see it with vlc neither? watching video is fine?
[05:36] <pitti> cjwatson: I have about zero knowledge about usplash, but with slangasek taking over release matters I have some time to look into it now
[05:36] <Amaranth> mvo: Everything is fine
[05:36] <mvo> evand: do you use any fancy plugins?
[05:37] <evand> mvo: ugh, ring switcher?  I don't believe that's used anymore by default, is it?
[05:37] <cjwatson> iwj: or perhaps you could fix that usplash bug, since you noticed it? :)
[05:37] <iwj> cjwatson: OK :-).  Not that I've ever touched usplash but I can give it a go.
[05:37] <Amaranth> evand: ring is enabled if you use 'extra effects'
[05:37] <cjwatson> I suspect pitti is still going to be jammed pretty solid
[05:37] <cjwatson> iwj: should be in usplash-theme-ubuntu though note that there are also corresponding themes for other derivatives
[05:37] <Amaranth> evand: Do you use cube?
[05:38] <iwj> cjwatson: Right.
[05:38] <evand> odd, I thought I enabled extra effects on my girlfriend's laptop and she ended up with the iTunes switcher
[05:38] <evand> Amaranth: no
[05:38] <evand> well, what's the shortcut for it
[05:38] <iwj> Any objection to me just making it white ?
[05:38] <Keybuk> Amaranth: shift switcher is prettier than ring for extra effects
[05:38] <lool> Make it pink!
[05:38] <MacSlow> Amaranth, no... shift not ring is used
[05:38] <Amaranth> evand: If you don't know if you're using cube you aren't using cube
[05:39] <Amaranth> MacSlow: Oh, since when?
[05:39] <pitti> iwj: in dapper we had that beautiful yellowish tone which matched the logo
[05:39] <MacSlow> Amaranth, hm... a week or so
[05:39] <pitti> iwj: but at that point we shouldn't be picky
[05:39] <Keybuk> Shift Switcher made our Apple fanatic in the office explode with joyous delight
[05:39] <evand> heh
[05:39] <Amaranth> Well the guy with the problems is using ring too...
[05:39] <Amaranth> So I suppose that could be
[05:39] <ogra> lool++
[05:39] <Keybuk> he was literally bouncing around with a huge grin on his face saying how wonderful gutsy is
[05:39] <mvo> HAHA
[05:39] <Amaranth> Keybuk: Which one is that? :)
[05:40] <iwj> I'll make it be white and someone else can find a nicer colour if they really want, provided it isn't 000080.
[05:40] <Keybuk> Amaranth: Mark Murphy, not sure whether you met him or not?
[05:40] <Amaranth> evand: Disable ring, see if the problem goes away
[05:40] <Amaranth> Keybuk: hmm, I don't think so
[05:40] <evand> Amaranth: will do
[05:41] <pitti> iwj: kwwii might have an opinion and a magic tuple :)
[05:41] <cjwatson> I have no problem with white for TEXT-URGENT
[05:41] <cjwatson> it's rather guaranteed to be visible
[05:41] <pitti> ++
[05:42] <mvo> evand: and if it goes away, make sure to mention this on the bugreport :)
[05:42] <evand> mvo: will do :)
[05:42] <kwwii> iwj: I don't quite get the problem
[05:42] <cjwatson> kwwii: dark blue on black is hard to read
[05:43] <kwwii> cjwatson: what is dark blue?
[05:43] <cjwatson> kwwii: colour used for textual messages in usplash
[05:43] <cjwatson> which are still used for certain prompts that require user feedback
[05:43] <kwwii> ouch, that is really freaky - I thought it dipped into the palette for the color, and I do not remeber every putting blue into the pic
[05:44] <pitti> kwwii: this blue is haunting us; noone put it in, and it keeps appearing
[05:44] <pitti> must be some default deeply engraved in some corner of the VGA BIOS, or so
[05:44] <Hobbsee> pitti: sabbotage by kubuntu, more likely.
[05:44] <kwwii> iwj: let me know if I can help in any way
[05:44] <pitti> Hobbsee: Right!
[05:44] <kwwii> Hobbsee: shhhh! don't tell them!
[05:44] <Hobbsee> ahem!
[05:45] <Hobbsee> pitti: it's just telling you to get more attention given to kubuntu for hardy.
[05:45] <pitti> iwj, cjwatson: so, I'm happy to look into cryptsetup and add this [OK]  confirmation
[05:45] <mdz> what's the bug number for the usplash blue text bug?
[05:45] <cjwatson> and I'll do the partman-crypto work
[05:45] <mdz> ah, bug 64408
[05:45] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 64408 in usplash-theme-ubuntu ""Urgent" text is poorly readable due to low contrast (blue on black)" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/64408
[05:46] <pitti> 64408
[05:46] <cjwatson> Arne is to put the libx11 fix into a PPA and follow up with the release team once we have testing of it
[05:47] <cjwatson> lool is fixing the xorg intel breakage
[05:47] <mdz> pitti mentioned bug 145226, bug 147943, bug 151351
[05:47] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 145226 in oem-config "Kubuntu OEM DCOP error" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145226
[05:47] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 147943 in compiz "[MASTER]  broken initial stacking (was: compiz hides quick loading windows at login)" [High,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/147943
[05:47] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 151351 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "Corrupted screen on G33 with -14 kernel; regression from -13" [High,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/151351
[05:47] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 151305 in cryptsetup "passphrase prompt at boot-time lacks feedback" [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/151305
[05:47] <pitti> mdz: right
[05:47] <cjwatson> mdz: I'm doing 145226, mvo said 147943 was fixed, 151351 is the xorg intel breakage I mentioned
[05:47] <pitti> so, compiz is in the archive
[05:48] <pitti> -intel is uploaded and should be in the queue
[05:48] <pitti> kubuntnu oem is in bzr
[05:48] <mdz> cjwatson: right, of those, only bug 151351 is milestoned for 7.10 at the moment
[05:48] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 151351 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "Corrupted screen on G33 with -14 kernel; regression from -13" [High,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/151351
[05:48] <Keybuk> heh, kubuntnu
[05:48] <pitti> mdz: the others are still at -rc, I think
[05:48] <mdz> sounds like 145226 should be marked fix committed
[05:49] <pitti> -intel hit -changes
[05:49] <pitti> meh, it didn't have a bug number in the changelog
[05:49] <cjwatson> mdz: done
[05:50] <davmor2> cjwatson: will that fix 151311 too or not?
[05:50] <cjwatson> same code as is causing 145226 is in ubiquity, though is only relevant if you do an automatic install
[05:50] <mdz> pitti,slangasek: so https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-7.10 is believed complete and accurate now?
[05:50] <cjwatson> davmor2: err, no idea
[05:50] <davmor2> ok
[05:50] <cjwatson> davmor2: looks totally separate to me
[05:51] <pitti> mdz: there might be some stuff left over from -rc which is in unapproved and needs to be checked
[05:51] <pitti> uploads have trickled in like mad
[05:52] <mdz> pitti: :-/  hard to know where we stand when we don't have a single list of targets
[05:52] <slangasek> mdz: I expect there are a number of bugs still milestoned under RC and actively worked on that should be transferred over; that makes for a nice bit of busywork
[05:52] <cjwatson> the sooner that's done the better
[05:53] <mdz> slangasek: it's time to make the final call on what gets actively worked on and what falls out
[05:53] <slangasek> yes
[05:53] <bdmurray> bug 135319 didn't seem fixed to me yesterday
[05:53] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 135319 in usplash "Usplash progress bar not centered on the monitor" [Medium,Triaged]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/135319
[05:53] <cjwatson> slangasek: i.e. we also need to sit down and work out what goes to post-release updates
[05:53] <mdz> so only the things which are showstoppers should move to the final milestone
[05:53] <cjwatson> bdmurray: gah, not again
[05:53] <pitti> ^ that would be the 'later' milestone, right?
[05:53] <cjwatson> I was contemplating a gutsy-updates milestone
[05:53] <pitti> or that
[05:54] <cjwatson> though mdz seemed unsure that that was kosher
[05:54] <mdz> slangasek: a good rule of thumb is that things which need to be fixed on the ISOs should get priority, since other things may be straightforward to fix in updates
[05:54] <pitti> oh, btw, another thing: we need to upload new langpacks, if possible in any way
[05:54] <mdz> cjwatson: we're abusing milestones, but I don't mind
[05:54] <pitti> ETA is on Friday evening
[05:54] <mdz> pitti: will that langpack upload fix the launchpad issue?
[05:54] <mdz> urgh, unknown
[05:55] <pitti> mdz: "the launchpad issue"?
[05:55] <MacSlow> mvo, what would the Alt-TAB issue of bug #122549 be under?
[05:55] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 122549 in compiz "[gutsy]  unredirect-fullscreen-windows option breaks gnome-screensaver locking behavior" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/122549
[05:55] <mdz> pitti: where lots of translations are missing from the export
[05:55] <cjwatson> gutsy-updates exists as a milestone now
[05:55] <pitti> mdz: I'll manually correct the useless per-country translations which often bring bad results, yes
[05:55] <mvo> MacSlow: it used to be critical, I consider it only high now, but we definitely should try to fix it for final
[05:56] <pitti> mdz: I wasn't told about missing translations, apart from the missing ones from restricted
[05:56] <MacSlow> mvo, ok... just wanted to be verified
[05:56] <pitti> (restricted-manager, mainly); this will be fixed
[05:56] <Keybuk> mvo: I had that bug today
[05:57] <pitti> slangasek: when should we absolutely close the door for uploads? should we project the final CDs for Monday evening?
[05:57] <Keybuk> my passphrase was being typed into a web browser hidden behind the screensaver
[05:57] <Keybuk> all I could do with the unlock dialog was click the buttons
[05:57] <Keybuk> *except* I was running metacity at the time
[05:57] <Keybuk> not compiz
[05:57] <Amaranth> joy
[05:57] <Amaranth> I wonder why gnome-screensaver needs to be override-redirect
[05:57] <Amaranth> gksu does the same thing and isn't (iirc)
[05:57] <Amaranth> and that seems to be at least part of the problem
[05:58] <slangasek> pitti: by Monday evening you mean the 15th?
[05:58] <MacSlow> Keybuk, what? you had that with metacity?! Uff!
[05:58] <mdz> slangasek: the only Monday before the final release ;-)
[05:58] <Amaranth> gnome-screensaver is broken :P
[05:58] <pitti> slangasek: right
[05:58] <slangasek> pitti: if it's logistically sound that the CDs should be finalized three days before the release date, then I'm not going to disagree
[05:58] <mvo> Keybuk: holly cow, really? this happend with metacity?
[05:59] <pitti> slangasek: I was just estimating the time we need for testing them all
[05:59] <MacSlow> Amaranth, maybe we should replace gnome-screensaver with a purely plugin-based screensaver?
[05:59] <cjwatson> slangasek: it should be; certainly aiming for any later than that is a bad plan, imo
[05:59] <slangasek> ok, Monday it is ):
[05:59] <slangasek> :)
[05:59] <Amaranth> MacSlow: haha
[05:59] <pitti> slangasek: so, let's say when you wake up you build the final images?
[05:59] <slangasek> sounds good
[05:59] <pitti> slangasek: fixing a rough date and time and announcing it would be good for the team, I think
[05:59] <cjwatson> slangasek: are you in active touch with both Jonathan and Oliver for Kubuntu and Edubuntu respectively?
[06:00] <mdz> that's all the time we allocated for this meeting, if you have important work to do for the release, feel free to wander off
[06:00] <mdz> release discussion can continue here
[06:00] <mvo> Keybuk: the good news is that we used the sledgehammer and this kind of behavior should not happen with compiz. the bad news is the screengrab does not work and people can still switch workspaces (from one black/locked one to the next)
[06:01] <asac> mdz: can you bump prio for rt.admin ticket #29154 ?
[06:01] <slangasek> cjwatson: active, if infrequent to date
[06:01] <Keybuk> mvo: I think it had something to do with epiphany refreshing a web page, and having to pop up a dialog about security issues
[06:01] <Keybuk> since there was a dialog that wasn't there before
[06:01] <cjwatson> slangasek: they should be the ones to give the go for their derivatives
[06:01] <slangasek> ok
[06:01] <MacSlow> Keybuk, so the popup was stealing gnome-screensavers focus?!
[06:01] <asac> if all goes well, firefox security updates will be out on the day we release ... will gutsy security infrastructure be in place to roll that update on the same day?
[06:01] <asac> keescook: ^^ ?
[06:01] <Keybuk> MacSlow: dunno, that's my theory *shrug*
[06:02] <pitti> asac: it has been requested from the soyuz/IS teams anyway
[06:02] <mdz> asac: I can, and it's appropriate for me to do so, but it seems unlikely anything will happen before the final release
[06:02] <mvo> MacSlow: that makes sense actually, the focus behavior was what broke it with compiz too
[06:02] <mdz> asac: where is it hosted currently?
[06:02] <asac> mdz: ok ... i posted the ticket back then because elmo asked me to do so ... he felt a bit unhappy about it being hosted on people.ubuntu.com
[06:03] <mdz> asac: oh, so at least it's on a production server
[06:03] <Amaranth> oh, gksu is override-redirect
[06:03] <Amaranth> and uses basically the same code as gnome-screensaver (the important bits are actually copied from gnome-screensaver)
[06:03] <Amaranth> but gksu doesn't have this problem, ever
[06:03] <cjwatson> I would be happier with ubufox moving post-release, I think
[06:03] <asac> mdz: problem is that cannot include upstream plugin results because i am not allowed to call pfs.mozilla.org from peope.ubuntu.com
[06:03] <cjwatson> seems a bit late now to be sure that the new service is working
[06:04] <asac> mdz: e.g. due to firewall rules
[06:04] <slangasek> asac: the information I've gotten so far indicates that there's a logistics problem with trying to have gutsy-security live day-one because of the dak one-time import
[06:04] <pitti> last time it took three days...
[06:04] <mdz> asac: it seems to include upstream plugin results for me...are you working around it?
[06:04] <cjwatson> slangasek is correct
[06:04] <cjwatson> usually takes a few days
[06:04] <pitti> we continuously get promised that -security moves to LP, but it seems to take a while still
[06:05] <mdz> slangasek: is there an RT open for that import?
[06:05] <asac> mdz: no you see only results that are packaged ... but not the pristine upstream .xpi result
[06:05] <slangasek> mdz: #29225
[06:05] <cjwatson> if we freeze the archive solid a couple of days before release, the import could start early
[06:05] <mdz> asac: eek...
[06:05] <mdz> asac: seems like this should have been raised earlier
[06:06] <pitti> cjwatson: that would be nice indeed
[06:06] <slangasek> cjwatson: which seems to only be a question of moving the window during which gutsy security updates aren't possible?
[06:06] <mdz> slangasek: that's not even in a queue yet; I can't view it
[06:06] <pitti> calc: do you think we can get the new OO.o by tomorrow, so that it can shake out over the weekend?
[06:06] <slangasek> mdz: er, ok; it's been responded to by elmo
[06:07] <cjwatson> slangasek: in practice they're more or less out of the question in the day before release anyway
[06:07] <cjwatson> since the buildds need to quiesce
[06:07] <slangasek> sure
[06:07] <mdz> slangasek: he probably forgot to put it in the distribution queue
[06:09] <slangasek> cjwatson: so timeline here would be: final images Monday evening, freeze the archive at the same time; testing starts; if there are no showstoppers by Tuesday, begin the gutsy-security dak import?
[06:09] <slangasek> (and if there are showstoppers after Tuesday, abort & restart?)
[06:09] <cjwatson> I think the dak import is resumable to some extent
[06:09] <Hobbsee> slangasek: main and universe at that point, i take it?
[06:09] <cjwatson> (though best check that with James, I only have a sketchy knowledge of what's involved)
[06:10] <asac> mdz: sorry ... thought i had a screenshot that shows you how upstream results would look like ... anyway, i think its unfortunate, but not a big issue. afaik upstream database just has adobe flash for linux.
[06:10] <slangasek> Hobbsee: yes
[06:10] <Hobbsee> slangasek: and, as the RM, do you plan to actually notify ubuntu-motu ML about the timelines?
[06:10] <slangasek> Hobbsee: this question seems to have only one right answer ;)
[06:10] <Hobbsee> s/actually//
[06:11] <mdz> asac: oh, I thought there was more thene
[06:11] <mdz> asac: there
[06:11] <Hobbsee> slangasek: well, yes, it does have an effect on whether you'll have a lot of people angry at you and canonical, and whether you'll get poked with the Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[06:11] <mdz> asac: if they have the same plugins we do, then it's nothing to worry about
[06:12] <cjwatson> Hobbsee: (last I checked, final-week uploads even in universe required approval ...)
[06:12] <mdz> Hobbsee: assuming the wiki docs include the necessary notifications, I'm sure he will remember
[06:12] <Hobbsee> mdz: they didnt last time, so i'm just double checking
[06:12] <cjwatson> oh, damn, I still need to move ReleaseCandidateProcess and ReleaseProcess to wiki.ubuntu.com
[06:12] <cjwatson> I'll do that today
[06:12] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: oh right, i wasnt aware.  somewhat scary, seeing as i'm on that too.
[06:13] <cjwatson> Hobbsee: end of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess
[06:13] <asac> mdz: yes ... but we should definitly implement it ... if not now then through a SRU at some point. upstream asked us to keep their preferred result in the list.
[06:13] <sladen> bdmurray: will you be my guinea pig if we go back to the off centre issie?
[06:13] <cjwatson> but I agree it's not clear on when the hard lockdown is
[06:13] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: i'llb et MOTU-uvf doesnt know about that.  but OK.
[06:14] <bdmurray> sladen: I'll be your huckleberry
[06:14] <asac> mdz: http://people.ubuntu.com/~asac/pfs/screens/pfs3.png ... the blue earth is "install from internet"
[06:17] <pitti> ok, seems we're done here? release stuff should go to #u-release
[06:18] <seb128> thanks
[06:18] <pitti> thanks all
[06:39] <mdz> #endmeeting
[06:39] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 17:39.
[06:40] <cjwatson> mootbot should garbage-collect meetings
[06:42] <Keybuk> cjwatson: don't the scribes take care of that?
[06:43] <kraut> @schedule berlin
[06:43] <ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 16 Oct 18:00: Kernel Team | 17 Oct 18:00: QA Team | 23 Oct 17:00: Server Team | 23 Oct 18:00: Kernel Team | 30 Oct 17:00: Kernel Team | 08 Nov 16:00: Community Development Team
[06:43] <kraut> hmmm, the kernel team seems to be busy ;)


[19:40] <arosales> hello
[19:40] <arosales> I had a question come in from david duffey re an mp @ https://code.launchpad.net/~david-duffey/juju-quickstart/packaging/+merge/277392
[19:41] <arosales> is there any other action needed to help move this MP forward?
[19:46] <rick_h_> bac can you look at ^ please?
[19:47] <BradCrittenden> hello
[19:47]  * bac looking
[19:49] <bac> arosales, rick_h_: the MP looks pretty straightforward.  i suspect it just fell off francesco's radar.  i'll try to grab it and QA this afternoon
[19:50] <arosales> bac: no rush, just came up in conversation if they were following the correct process
[19:50] <arosales> bac: if you have any questions dduffey is the author of that patch
[19:51] <bac> arosales: yes, thanks for the heads up
[19:51] <arosales> bac: np, thanks for the help
[19:52] <bac> arosales: i see frankban has a task to release a new quickstart shortly.  we'll try to get this included
[19:59] <dduffey> bac, that would be cool!  It shouldn't effect anything since it is just dropping in an icon and desktop file
[19:59] <bac> dduffey: gotcha


[18:07] <cjohnston> daker: may want to reveiw https://code.launchpad.net/~chrisjohnston/loco-team-portal/792475/+merge/95799 to prevent people from giving admin rights the the wrong person (see #ubuntu-community-team)
[18:11] <daker> cjohnston: sure
[18:11] <cjohnston> ty


[00:10] <wallyworld> babbageclunk: is it true we hard code leases auto expire to false? did we have plans to change that? if auto expire is always false, then we can remove more code?
[00:10] <babbageclunk> wallyworld: ? not sure what you mean
[00:11] <wallyworld> / Autoexpire is part of the lease.Store interface.
[00:11] <wallyworld> func (*store) Autoexpire() bool { return false }
[00:11] <wallyworld> controls how the worker expires leases
[00:11] <wallyworld> whether it does it on the next tick or if a client call i needed
[00:12] <babbageclunk> Ah - right! Yes, I'll remove that - it's because the db leases needed to be expired, but the raft ones get expired on clock tick
[00:12] <babbageclunk> thanks for the reminder!
[00:12] <wallyworld> babbageclunk: np, but for raft, if it is done automatically, wouldn't auto expire be true?
[00:15] <babbageclunk> it is
[00:15] <babbageclunk> I mean, I'll remove the code in lease manager that does stuff when !autoexpire
[00:15] <wallyworld> but it's hard coded false?
[00:16] <babbageclunk> in the non-raft store
[00:16] <wallyworld> ah, ok, i was looking at the wrong one
[00:16] <wallyworld> duh
[00:16] <babbageclunk> yup yup
[00:46] <wallyworld> babbageclunk: you can also remove ExpireLease() right? and reduce code in provider dummyLeaseStore, or even remove that entirely
[00:47] <babbageclunk> yeah, that was what I was planning
[01:04] <thumper> https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/11582 for someone
[01:05] <thumper> backporting develop fix to 2.8
[01:05] <thumper> should really have landed in 2.7, but I don't think it is worthwhile going that far back now
[01:19] <wallyworld> lgtm
[01:19] <wallyworld> thumper: wanna land in 2.8-rc though
[01:20] <wallyworld> that will get forward ported today later
[01:20] <thumper> wallyworld: ok
[01:42] <kelvinliu> wallyworld: hpidcock could any of you take a look this PR https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/11583 for fixing upgrade-charm? ty
[01:43] <wallyworld> sure
[01:48] <thumper> wallyworld, hpidcock, kelvinliu, tlm: do any of you have any running k8s models that have been upgraded from earlier versions?
[01:48]  * thumper wants to test a theory
[01:55] <wallyworld> not currently
[02:04] <wallyworld> kelvinliu: +1 but with a request to fix the RemoteInitFunc signature to remove runningStatus. the cahce cleanup can happen later, but will be nioce to have the func clean
[02:08] <kelvinliu> wallyworld: we still need get the pod name from the status, or we can change the status from podName string. or do u think we can change it later when we decide the remove the status entirely?
[02:09] <kelvinliu> typo, change the status to podName string
[02:09] <tlm> thumper: I don't
[02:09] <wallyworld> kelvinliu: ah right, i missed that, sure
[02:09] <tlm> wallyworld: cooking with gas when you're ready
[02:10] <wallyworld> tlm: looking
[02:12] <kelvinliu> wallyworld: I think we just need to test for upgrading different workload type - stateless, stateful, daemon, but probably no need to test different k8s cloud, agree?
[02:13] <wallyworld> we should at some point but can be microk8s for now i think
[02:15] <wallyworld> tlm: SetPasswords() also needs changing to be an api that takes just the password. it can internally create the params.EntityPassword since we use a pluggin at the back end, but the api called should just pass in a single password
[02:15] <wallyworld> and result.OneError()
[02:15] <wallyworld> func sig just returns a single error, not ErrorResults
[02:17] <wallyworld> tlm: also, i added tag 2.0.1 to juju/description
[02:22] <wallyworld> i left comments in the pr
[02:23] <tlm> wallyworld: cheers doing now
[02:50] <babbageclunk> gah, can't remove leasesC - we can't run transactions against an unknown collection.
[02:50] <babbageclunk> wallyworld: ^
[02:50] <wallyworld> which txns?
[02:50] <babbageclunk> the ones in MigrateLeasesToGlobalTime
[02:51] <wallyworld> can we chck if the collection exists before running hte upgrade step logic
[02:51] <wallyworld> if the collection is not there, no need to migrate anything
[02:52] <babbageclunk> yes, but it needs to be in allcollections, otherwise running a transaction fails
[02:52] <wallyworld> point me at the code that fails?
[02:53] <wallyworld> the collection will be there in older dbs right
[02:53] <wallyworld> and we run the upgrade step on that existing collection
[02:54] <babbageclunk> wallyworld: state/upgrades.go:1293
[02:54] <wallyworld> babbageclunk: right, so that the top of the method we check if the collection exists
[02:55] <wallyworld> if it doesn't nothong to do
[02:55] <babbageclunk> it's not the existence of the collection - it's the entry in allCollections
[02:55] <wallyworld> HO?
[02:56] <babbageclunk> Otherwise the tests (and the upgrade step) fail with  forbidden transaction: references unknown collection "leases"
[02:56] <babbageclunk> sure, in stdup
[03:08] <tlm> jjkkjj
[03:18] <tlm> wallyworld: got 5 minutes for HO ?
[03:19] <thumper> https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/11584 - cleanup for some future work
[03:20] <wallyworld> tlm: sure
[03:23] <hpidcock> thumper: lgtm
[03:46] <thumper> hpidcock: thanks
[03:46] <thumper> https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/11585 - for a bug that had been assigned to me for over a year
[03:46] <thumper> or two
[03:47] <hpidcock> lgtm
[03:48] <thumper> hpidcock: thanks again
[03:57] <tlm> hey wallyworld you didn't push a tag for juju/description
[03:57] <tlm> still have it? Not sure I have push access to that repo
[03:57] <wallyworld> ah, it was addd to the branch for which i created a PR
[03:57] <wallyworld> i'll add
[03:57] <tlm> ta
[03:58] <wallyworld> tlm: try now
[04:01] <tlm> works cheers wallyworld
[04:03] <tlm> wallyworld: I think go mod wants tags in the form of v2.0.1 hpidcock can you confirm ?
[04:03] <hpidcock> tlm depends on the package
[04:03] <wallyworld> tlm: the previous tag was 2.0.0
[04:06] <tlm> hmmm go mod is not liking life
[04:07] <wallyworld> tlm: i added v2.0.1
[04:07] <wallyworld> does that help?
[04:08] <tlm> changed the error but hasn't helped
[04:08] <tlm> will dig into it
[04:09] <tlm> can you remove the v tag wallyworld ?
[04:09] <wallyworld> ok
[04:12] <wallyworld> done
[04:32] <wallyworld> babbageclunk: you also removing store.Refresh() ?
[05:17] <wallyworld> tlm: looks good after the go.mod issue is sorted
[05:18] <tlm> wallyworld: go.mod issue should be sorted now
[05:18] <tlm> ?
[05:18] <wallyworld> tlm: ah ok, sorry i was probably looking at an outdated diff
[05:26] <babbageclunk> wallyworld: yeah, I will - just working out how I can make the dummy store do autoexpiry
[05:27] <wallyworld> ah joy
[05:27] <wallyworld> babbageclunk: i have the unit->dead revocation fully working :-D
[05:27] <babbageclunk> ooh nice
[05:30] <wallyworld> kelvinliu: tlm: so i think your stuff is good to go; i have release notes organised; as soon as things land wash through jenkins, i'll kick off rc2. any issues i'm missing?
[05:31] <kelvinliu> wallyworld: ho?
[05:31] <wallyworld> ok
[05:41] <wallyworld> hpidcock: you free to jump into standup?
[05:47] <hpidcock> wallyworld: sure
[06:07] <wallyworld> hpidcock: kelvinliu: sorry, hit button too soon
[06:07] <kelvinliu> nws
[06:07] <hpidcock> wallyworld: sure
[06:19] <babbageclunk> wallyworld: hey, I'm just going to hit merge on my pr so yours doesn't need to hold up - I can always put the extra store tidy-ups in after.
[06:19] <babbageclunk> that was poorly worded but I think you can probably see what I'm getting at
[06:20] <wallyworld> babbageclunk: whoohoo, tyvm
[08:21] <achilleasa> manadart: I have landed the []InterfaceInfo -> InterfaceInfos PR on 2.8 and dev; make sure to rebase if working with those types to avoid conflicts
[08:21] <manadart> achilleasa: Yep, rebased already.
[08:26] <achilleasa> manadart: have a question on 11579
[08:27] <manadart> achilleasa: HO?
[08:27] <achilleasa> omw
[09:21] <manadart> achilleasa: Pushed change and replied to your comment.
[09:21] <achilleasa> looking
[11:00] <manadart> achilleasa: Simple one: https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/11587
[11:10] <manadart> achilleasa: Thanks. Also need a tick on this backport of the earlier one: https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/11588
[11:10] <achilleasa> manadart: done
[11:11] <manadart> achilleasa: Ta.
[13:29] <manadart> achilleasa: Trivial forward-merge https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/11589.
[13:39] <achilleasa> manadart: trade you for https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/11590
[13:40] <manadart> achilleasa: Deal.


[03:02] <mup> PR operator#1003 opened: #959 Remove 'you' and 'your' from docstrings <Created by tonyandrewmeyer> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/1003>
[04:00] <mup> PR operator#1004 opened: fix(CI): Use Go 1.20 for CI <Created by tonyandrewmeyer> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/1004>
[04:07] <mup> PR operator#1004 closed: ci: use Go 1.20 for real Pebble tests <Created by tonyandrewmeyer> <Merged by benhoyt> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/1004>
[07:03] <mup> PR operator#1005 opened: feat: wholesale port management <feature> <Created by tonyandrewmeyer> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/1005>


[01:47] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Fridge:: Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter Issue 697 @ https://fridge.ubuntu.com/2021/08/23/ubuntu-weekly-newsletter-issue-697/ (by guiverc)
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