[06:48] <SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
[06:54] <crogers> Hi SebthreeBQM10HD
[06:56] <SebthreeBQM10HD> crogers, hi
[06:58] <crogers> What's up?
[06:59] <crogers> And Happy Friday. :D
[06:59] <SebthreeBQM10HD> crogers, not much
[07:00] <crogers> Anything interesting planned for the weekend?
[07:00] <SebthreeBQM10HD> no
[07:00] <SebthreeBQM10HD> you
[07:00] <SebthreeBQM10HD> ?
[07:01] <SebthreeBQM10HD> crogers, where you from?
[07:01] <crogers> Yea, going to go see the new branch of the Tate Modern Art Museum. My gf is finally back from Italy, so I can finally go see it.
[07:01] <SebthreeBQM10HD> oh
[07:02] <crogers> From? Originally?
[07:02] <SebthreeBQM10HD> and where's that?
[07:02] <SebthreeBQM10HD> crogers, sure and inuk I guess or whatever
[07:02] <crogers> Tate Modern is in Central London.
[07:02] <crogers> I'm from Colorado in teh States, though.
[07:02] <SebthreeBQM10HD> oh
[07:02] <SebthreeBQM10HD> well
[07:03] <crogers> How about you?
[07:03] <SebthreeBQM10HD> crogers, sorry your not alllowed here, you need some kind of uk redinencity heh he a pass port or something :D
[07:03] <crogers> I have a Residence Permit. :)
[07:03] <SebthreeBQM10HD> crogers, actually also no American alloweed here :d
[07:03] <SebthreeBQM10HD> he h
[07:03] <crogers> I passed your Citizenship tests. ;)
[07:04] <crogers> I'm one of yoooouuuu now. ;)
[07:04] <SebthreeBQM10HD> it turns out your thing is fake
[07:04] <SebthreeBQM10HD> now the border force are afer you :d
[07:04] <crogers> Better not be. I hired a professional company to handle the paperwork for me. lol
[07:05] <SebthreeBQM10HD> the paper work for?
[07:05] <SebthreeBQM10HD> oh
[07:05] <SebthreeBQM10HD> the
[07:05] <SebthreeBQM10HD> yeah
[07:05] <SebthreeBQM10HD> h eh
[07:05] <crogers> Yea, that's one thing the US has in common with the UK.
[07:06] <SebthreeBQM10HD> what getting rid of or trying to
[07:06] <SebthreeBQM10HD> the unwanted people
[07:06] <SebthreeBQM10HD> ?
[07:07] <crogers> Black-hole style bureaucracies
[07:07] <crogers> The forms you have to fill out are so dense it has its own event horizon.
[07:07] <SebthreeBQM10HD> heh yeah maybe
[07:08] <crogers> Yea,neither country is very outsider friendly when it comes to immigration. I understand why.
[07:09] <crogers> And I don't really agree with most of the reasons.
[07:09] <SebthreeBQM10HD> crogers, well about half of the UK population and most of Scotland
[07:09] <SebthreeBQM10HD> crogers, were ok enough with imigrants from EUrope
[07:09] <SebthreeBQM10HD> including myself :)
[07:09] <crogers> ANd me too.
[07:09] <crogers> And most of London. :)
[07:09] <crogers> 72% I heard.
[07:10] <SebthreeBQM10HD> crogers, but then we basically have half a population of uhmm idiots and racists or whatever you may want to call them, who voted leav
[07:10] <SebthreeBQM10HD> e
[07:10] <crogers> They were promised lies too.
[07:10] <SebthreeBQM10HD> yeah some things weren't quite true
[07:10] <SebthreeBQM10HD> but a lot of those peple were people who don't normally vote in things like that as well etc
[07:10] <crogers> I think that's understating it.
[07:11] <SebthreeBQM10HD> and that don't follow polotics etc closly enough etc
[07:11] <crogers> People were lied to, and it's amasing they aren't as pissed off about it as they should be.
[07:11] <SebthreeBQM10HD> oh and without the poles etc, uhmm and forgin workers in the NHS as well,  things would be more of a mess
[07:11] <crogers> Agreed.
[07:12] <SebthreeBQM10HD> crogers, but I am actually half Swedish as well :d was born there, lived in Engalnd since 3, but that actualy means I can get a dual passport if I want it, which could become useful who knows
[07:12] <crogers> Yea, free trade and mocvement in the EU, we don't need hippy crap like that.
[07:12] <crogers> *movement
[07:13] <crogers> We can go right on being a reseller, without those trade agreements, and still compete in the market... wait, what?
[07:13] <SebthreeBQM10HD> crogers, there might become a like uhmm 3rd quue now :d.  EU and Switzerland,  any other pass ports,  except for the hated Brexit which gets it's own quee with bad looks etc
[07:13] <SebthreeBQM10HD> across Europe I mean
[07:14] <crogers> Yea.
[07:14] <crogers> I'm still hoping they do a London passport.
[07:14] <SebthreeBQM10HD> a London pass port ?
[07:14] <crogers> Yea, break London off the UK, sort of like Hong Kong is for China.
[07:15] <SebthreeBQM10HD> crogers, yeah trade is one thing, but there are bound to be deals made with Europe anyway.  to be honest  it would be good to have a proper one aranged with say America and China, that would also result in being able to import from those counteries no problem, without having to pay any customs, like now with the rest of the EU
[07:15] <crogers> So you could have a London passport, and it would be an EU passport.
[07:15] <SebthreeBQM10HD> crogers, if Scotland get the chance they may leave next time round
[07:16] <crogers> Yea, except that the US and China have already given us the finger. lol
[07:16] <SebthreeBQM10HD> crogers, but currently a tory prime minster has to even agree to such a vote it seems, and she's unlikely to do tha
[07:16] <crogers> Pres Obama, was like... "Yea, we'll make a deal, but guess what, you're not a priority compared to the rest of Europe."
[07:17] <SebthreeBQM10HD> crogers, he's also said stuff about America's and the UK'S apparant special realationship
[07:17] <crogers> Which is a pleasant way of saying "Sorry, we're not going to help you clean up this trade disaster you've voted yourselves into."
[07:17] <crogers> I mean, we'll see I guess.
[07:17] <SebthreeBQM10HD> it's sily togo out of eu really
[07:18] <SebthreeBQM10HD> wrold is more global now etc
[07:18] <crogers> But I want people who voted brexit to be furious about the lies that are now official lies.
[07:18] <crogers> So mad in fact that everyone calls for a re-vote.
[07:19] <SebthreeBQM10HD> crogers, yeah, but that won't just happen
[07:19] <SebthreeBQM10HD> some people aren't hapy about it now that voted that way though
[07:19] <crogers> Yes. That's the stupidity of it.
[07:20] <crogers> Then they should have no problem with a re-vote.
[07:20] <SebthreeBQM10HD> crogers, EU IS UHMM
[07:20] <crogers> If they are sure that we'd vote out again, they should be fine with it.
[07:20] <SebthreeBQM10HD> crogers, ok it's a kind of super state now, but there are a lot of advantages being in
[07:20] <SebthreeBQM10HD> crogers, certain companies are moving to mainalnd europe now as well
[07:20] <crogers> Don't have to tell me, I know. :)
[07:21] <crogers> I try not to think about it too much. It just makes me angry.
[07:22] <SebthreeBQM10HD> crogers, well you can move to Mexico if things get to bad with America or UK :d
[07:22] <crogers> Then it will happen to Mexico. lol
[07:22] <crogers> Can't hide.
[07:22] <SebthreeBQM10HD> what will?
[07:22] <crogers> Can't stop the insanity and fear.
[07:22] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Mexico is pretty much on it's own in the world anyway ?
[07:23] <crogers> Nothing. You can always control people's oppinion with fear.
[07:23] <crogers> And enough money to bankroll it.
[07:24] <SebthreeBQM10HD> yeah I guess
[07:24] <SebthreeBQM10HD> crogers, on a subject change:
[07:25] <crogers> Yes please. :)
[07:25] <SebthreeBQM10HD> crogers, do you find it interesting when  you hear like
[07:25] <SebthreeBQM10HD> propriary games have come to Linux
[07:25] <SebthreeBQM10HD> popular propriary games
[07:25] <SebthreeBQM10HD> crogers, Rocket League being an example right now
[07:26] <crogers> Actually we have a new rule at the London Linux Meetup that I run: No politics.
[07:26] <crogers> Yep.
[07:26] <crogers> I support that. I consider games a bit like art, or streaming media.
[07:27] <SebthreeBQM10HD> crogers, well you could say they are kind of art etc
[07:27] <SebthreeBQM10HD> but sadly most art etc
[07:27] <SebthreeBQM10HD> has become propritary/commerical
[07:27] <SebthreeBQM10HD> made to make money, not for fun etc
[07:27] <SebthreeBQM10HD> be taht music, movies, etc etc
[07:27] <crogers> Oh, it's been that way forever.
[07:27] <SebthreeBQM10HD> crogers, but there's Creative Commons to :)
[07:28] <crogers> Yes, which is why I contribute to the cc0 stuff.
[07:28] <SebthreeBQM10HD> what's cc0 ?
[07:28] <crogers> creative commons 0
[07:28] <SebthreeBQM10HD> crogers, have you oragnaised any proper Linux events?
[07:28] <SebthreeBQM10HD> public events
[07:28] <SebthreeBQM10HD> be they small or bigger
[07:28] <crogers> means you don't have to credit me if you use it.
[07:28] <crogers> And you can use it for anything.
[07:28] <crogers> You can even sell it as part of a compilation, or piece of your own art if you want.
[07:29] <SebthreeBQM10HD> oh
[07:29] <SebthreeBQM10HD> is it under one of the six liscnes on creativecommons.org ?
[07:29] <crogers> yes, it's cc0
[07:29] <SebthreeBQM10HD> oh ok
[07:29] <SebthreeBQM10HD> crogers, but going back tomy question just now
[07:29] <SebthreeBQM10HD> have you oranised o
[07:29] <SebthreeBQM10HD> or ok been invovld with even but more so organising
[07:30] <SebthreeBQM10HD> any proper open source linux events
[07:30] <SebthreeBQM10HD> ?
[07:30] <crogers> https://creativecommons.org/share-your-work/public-domain/
[07:30] <SebthreeBQM10HD> be they small or bigger
[07:31] <SebthreeBQM10HD> crogers, this is reminding me that I was going to see if I could get a proper CC UK rep or something as well, for a Linuxey type event well with CC as well that organsning
[07:31] <crogers> Mainly just my London Linux Meetup.
[07:31] <crogers> It's mainly just for getting together, having some drinks and talking Linux and FOSS
[07:31] <SebthreeBQM10HD> yeah a LUG
[07:31] <SebthreeBQM10HD> basically I gusss
[07:31] <crogers> Or FLOSS if you like. :)
[07:31] <SebthreeBQM10HD> or similar
[07:32] <crogers> People bring their pi gadgets and other stuff to show off.
[07:32] <SebthreeBQM10HD> crogers, events are fun and things like that :d
[07:32] <SebthreeBQM10HD> crogers, it's a bit hmm in a way how Linux is so unknown by the public, even though it's like everywehre already :d
[07:32] <crogers> Yea, totally. Mine is very informal.
[07:33] <SebthreeBQM10HD> with the exceptio nof the standard computer
[07:33] <SebthreeBQM10HD> crogers, I thik most groups and events for Linux and open source are generally quite informal
[07:33] <crogers> Don't care how you use Linux, or level of experience. Maybe you are just interest in it, and want more information.
[07:33] <SebthreeBQM10HD> with the excption of the proper business events
[07:34] <crogers> We just started it to talk tech with other like-minded people, and community build.
[07:35] <crogers> I learn a lot from folks there too.
[07:35] <crogers> Many different jobs/backgrounds/interests.
[07:36] <crogers> It's good to see a variety.
[07:36] <crogers> And it expands your Linux toolset to get recommendations.
[07:37] <Gargoyle> Morning all.
[07:37] <crogers> And hey, there's CIder and Beer. too. :D
[07:37] <crogers> mornin Gargoyle
[07:42] <crogers> Gargoyle, still getting along with Gnome?
[07:48] <popey> Morning
[08:03] <TwistedLucidity> Thank Crunchie it's Friiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiday!
[08:04] <TwistedLucidity> Camping! \o/ Woo!
[08:04] <foobarry> hi guys
[08:04] <TwistedLucidity> Pub! \o/ Woo!
[08:05] <TwistedLucidity> Hiking with a hangover. /o\ Not so woo.
[08:05] <popey> \o/ beer train
[08:05] <davmor2> Morning all
[08:06] <foobarry> got a question about recording a presentation - i want to record a set of slides with voiceover, perahps 30 mins talk. my face is not required,
[08:07] <foobarry> currently the slides are in google slides app. could i use google hangouts to do this and generate a video?
[08:07] <crogers> Yes.
[08:07] <foobarry> i want decent resolution on the results
[08:07] <crogers> Use Recordmydesktop
[08:07] <crogers> or Kazam
[08:07] <crogers> In both, you can choose the resolution, and the audio settings.
[08:09] <crogers> Recommend Openshot for simple video editing, Kden Live, if you can get it to output the format you want, and Blender 3D's VSE if you have time to learn a solid video production tool.
[08:09] <crogers> Blender has the highest Learning curve though.
[08:10] <crogers> But it's also my editor of choice for sheer power and the fact that you can do pretty much anything in it.
[08:10] <foobarry> i don't wanna edit the video hopefully.
[08:13] <foobarry> kazam would create a massive file over 30 mins.
[08:15] <TwistedLucidity> Couldn't the Kazam file be run through Handbrake (or transcoder of choice) to spit out a smaller, more portable file?
[08:15] <foobarry> yes eventually
[08:15] <TwistedLucidity> I thought the general rule was to grab in as high quality as possible then mix down.
[08:17] <popey> i use simplescreenrecorder these days
[08:17] <foobarry> for longer ones too popey?
[08:17] <popey> yes
[08:17] <popey> it doesn't create huge files
[08:17] <foobarry> cool thx
[08:18] <popey> UI is a bit wonky, with multiple screens. they could do with a ux person to look at it
[08:19] <foobarry> ah, its this guy
[08:19] <crogers> Both Kazam and recordmydesktop let you record just a section of the screen.
[08:19] <foobarry> yeah he added twitch type options too didn't he
[08:20] <foobarry> for gaming
[08:20] <crogers> So you can crop off all the google stuff too, and just record the important part.
[08:20] <crogers> Which will give you a smaller file and still maintain a crisp resolution.
[08:22] <foobarry> google slides do full screen. the presenter window with notes is sucky thuogh. i prefer impress but i was making the talk on 3 different computers during the space of a day
[08:22] <foobarry> so google won
[08:23] <popey> foobarry: no, you're thinking of the java one
[08:23] <popey> i got simplescreenrecorder from maarten-baert ppa
[08:24] <popey> i used it to make my snappy videos - 1080p, 10MB/min
[08:24] <popey> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8Xmd6O8xX8 that kind of output
[08:24] <foobarry> such a decent app really needs better UI
[08:25] <foobarry> that is good quality
[08:25] <foobarry> do you think its better to see the face in the corner?
[08:25] <foobarry> for non-community stuff too?
[08:25] <crogers> It's also worth noting that Kazam preferences can be changed from AVI (RAW) as the default to H264 (MP4) for high quality with compression.
[08:25] <popey> i only used it becuase there's periods of not much going on
[08:25] <foobarry> i want the one that doesn't crash and lose my work
[08:25] <popey> sss is the one you want :)
[08:26] <foobarry> popey wins
[08:26] <popey> I haven't had it crash in last few months of using it
[08:26] <foobarry> nice quality vid
[08:26] <foobarry> no crash
[08:26] <foobarry> cheers
[08:26] <popey> np
[08:26] <crogers> You can also use ffmpeg to rencode to a lower file size.
[08:28] <foobarry> i also use asciinema for internal recording of terminal stuff. no audio though
[08:28] <foobarry> but it allows copy paste and other awesomeness.
[08:29] <foobarry> editing of the source to change the words in the "video"
[08:32] <popey> asciinema is great
[08:32] <popey> i also like asciidraw
[08:36] <popey> foobarry: the only thing I'm not impressed with most of these screencast tools is they encode the colourspace incorrectly, if you look at my video, you'll notice the colours aren't quite right
[08:37] <popey> there is a yuv encoder you can use if you *really* care about that
[08:47] <foobarry> maybe for gaming its an issue, not for my presentation, but thanks for the heads up
[08:48] <foobarry> does sss let you paint on the screen?
[08:53] <popey> it's not a feature
[08:59] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[09:00] <BigRedS> Goood Morning brobostigon
[09:01] <brobostigon> morning BigRedS
[09:24] <crogers> mornin brobostigon
[09:24] <brobostigon> morning crogers
[09:27] <SuperMatt> I don't know if you just insulted me or not
[09:28] <crogers> SuperMatt, ?
[09:42] <popey> \o/ Rocket League on Linux. I know what Sam will be doing all weekend :)
[09:50] <davmor2> popey: playing no mans sky right?
[09:50] <TwistedLucidity> Isn't Rocket League only in technical beta for SteamOS?
[09:56] <TwistedLucidity> I need a new PC for gaming.
[09:57] <popey> TwistedLucidity: came out today
[09:57] <popey> well, yesterday I guess
[09:57] <TwistedLucidity> Site says beta, but if it can be downloaded; why not?
[09:58] <popey> works for me :)
[09:58] <TwistedLucidity> I have too many unplayed games, and a new Humble Indie Bunble to play through...
[09:58] <popey> ditto
[09:58] <popey> i buy for my son tho
[09:58] <TwistedLucidity> popey: Fair enough. Not that I'm jealous
[09:58]  * TwistedLucidity mutters a nawty word under breath
[09:58] <popey> he tends to play via the steamlink in the lounge with his mates
[09:59] <TwistedLucidity> Steamlink now works on GNU/Linux?
[10:00] <TwistedLucidity> I thought there were issues with controller input and stuff. My info could be years old though.
[10:00] <popey> eh?
[10:00] <popey> steamlink is a device
[10:00] <popey> sits under the telly and streams from other machines running steam
[10:00] <TwistedLucidity> So that's not the streaming thing?
[10:01] <popey> yes, it's a streaming device
[10:01] <TwistedLucidity> Yeah, that thing. Thoguht it didn't work with a GNU/Linux main box.
[10:01] <popey> http://store.steampowered.com/app/353380/ that thing
[10:01] <popey> it does, always had
[10:01] <TwistedLucidity> WTF am I thinking of then? There was deffo something that was Windows-only.
[10:01]  * popey shrugs
[10:02] <TwistedLucidity> So....I could play KSP on the big telly? Oh my.
[10:03] <popey> ya
[10:03] <popey> we play a lot of multi-player games, where the kids beat me
[10:03] <popey> TowerFall Ascension, GangBeasts, Ultimate Chicken Horse.
[10:04] <TwistedLucidity> Ah yes, it's not *fully* supported. That's probably what I was remembering.
[10:05] <TwistedLucidity> And back in 2015 it wasn't supported at all.
[10:05] <TwistedLucidity> Good news is, progress has been made!
[10:06] <TwistedLucidity> "In order to support streaming game controllers on a Linux host computer, /dev/uinput or /dev/input/uinput needs to be readable and writable by Steam."
[10:06] <TwistedLucidity> "Some games use raw input instead of XInput or DirectInput and are not yet supported."
[10:06] <TwistedLucidity> Still...I know what I want for my birthday. :-D
[10:09] <popey> I wonder if I should put my steam account in my will
[10:10] <foobarry> or at least the password in an envelope
[10:11] <TwistedLucidity> popey: That's actually an interesting question, what happens with all one's accounts etc when one pegs it?
[10:12] <popey> It's something i worry about now and then
[10:12] <popey> Last time I asked this publicly, some people's responses were "I don't care, I'll be dead"
[10:14] <TwistedLucidity> I guess it depends on what value (if any) is attached to those accounts.
[10:14] <TwistedLucidity> And what the license terms are
[10:16]  * brobostigon has in his will, that when i kick th bucket, all my star trek collectables go to my fiance.
[10:22] <zmoylan-pi> nothing says love that a few 1000 obsessively collected models of the enterprise... :-P
[10:23]  * zmoylan-pi nudges the box of my trek collection out of view with foot...
[10:24] <brobostigon> :D
[10:25] <TwistedLucidity> brobostigon: That's a physcial thing though, you own them. Digital? All you have is a license.
[10:25] <brobostigon> TwistedLucidity: yes exactly,
[10:26] <zmoylan-pi> i liked crt monitors as it allowed you to fit a lot of star trek micro machines on top of them... :-) https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fecx.images-amazon.com%2Fimages%2FI%2F5137MlMJWmL.jpg&f=1
[10:30] <brobostigon> what does the law say about it? can a licence be transferred between people lik that?
[10:31] <zmoylan-pi> i think there have been 1-2 cases were someone left digital licences of their collection to someone in their will... but it's new territory and will take decades to have a single definitive answer
[10:32] <brobostigon> ah i see.
[10:32] <zmoylan-pi> and you can bet that studios want the licence to die with the person as a profit generating scheme
[10:36] <TwistedLucidity> Which is yet another reason to avoid DRM
[10:38] <zmoylan-pi> which most people won't realise till they find out after someone dies and their collection died with them
[10:38] <popey> meh, I'll just get the email address changed on my steam account :)
[10:38] <zmoylan-pi><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[10:41] <popey><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[10:43] <zmoylan-pi><EMAIL_ADDRESS><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[10:43] <popey> i should make a list...
[10:44] <popey> domain renewals (to keep their email working), photos access... ugh
[10:44] <zmoylan-pi> a kicked the bucket list...
[10:44] <popey> when my dad died, his wife kept his facebook account active rather than 'memorialising' it, so every so often my dad pops up on facebook "he liked this"
[10:44] <popey> which is annoying
[11:02] <davmor2> popey: hahahahaha
[11:03] <davmor2> popey: Maybe he does it to tell you there is an afterlife :)
[11:09] <foobarry> why would a java process use only 362mb resident and 36G virtual mem?
[11:09] <popey> if facebook is the afterlife, no thanks
[11:09] <popey> ahh java
[11:09] <popey> it's probably not *using* the virtual mem
[11:09] <popey> just allocated it so when it wants, it can swap in/out as needed
[11:09] <popey> look at vmstat, and see if it's actually doing si or so
[11:10] <foobarry> but 36gb is unusally large
[11:10] <foobarry> i know "yeah java"
[11:10] <popey> hehe, nah it isnt :)
[11:10] <popey> I used to work where we had systems with gigantic hundred GB swap partitions
[11:10] <popey> for a java app
[11:11] <diddledan> java does memory allocation itself, so it reserves a large chunk for potential future use IIRC
[11:11] <foobarry> greedy java
[11:11] <foobarry> i never want it to use that much
[11:11] <zmoylan-pi> memory digger
[11:11] <diddledan> I don't get how it doesn't reduce the available memory from the host when it reserves that large chunk tho
[11:11] <zmoylan-pi> hey, lets make a mobile os and use the same tech! :-)
[11:12] <popey> we used to have lengthy arguments with the systems guys who would refuse to allow us to allocate enough swap
[11:12] <foobarry> popey: whats the asciidraw app you mentioned?
[11:13] <popey> its a website
[11:13] <foobarry> asciiflow?
[11:13] <popey> sorry, yes
[11:13] <popey> http://asciiflow.com/
[11:13] <foobarry> ah, cool , yeah knew that one
[11:14]  * popey considers lunch
[11:15] <zmoylan-pi> it's good to see some people think ahead for unexpected eventualities... :-P http://www.itv.com/news/meridian/update/2016-09-09/emergency-potty-brought-out-for-people-stuck-in-i360/
[11:17] <diddledan> zmoylan-pi: looks like there was no privacy
[11:18] <zmoylan-pi> it's britain, everyone would have politely turned their backs and hummed loudly to drown out embarrassing sounds... ;-)
[11:18] <foobarry> still enjoying playing skyrim since buying the xbox360. shame i only get windows of around 1hr to play
[11:18] <foobarry> most of that time i'm juggling stuff in my pockets
[11:19] <foobarry> because they are always full
[11:19] <zmoylan-pi> yeah, when i was playing diablo ii at work during lunchtimes i drove people nuts with 'i am overburdened'
[11:20] <foobarry> i am sworn to carry your burdens
[11:28] <popey> \o/ lunchtime quesadilla
[13:19] <Gargoyle> Anyone got any recommendations for screen-sharing software that allows remote control (like ScreenHero).
[13:27] <popey> Gargoyle: teamviewer?
[14:23] <brobostigon> anyone familir with a java opensimulator client?
[14:31] <diddledan> opensimulator. wassat?
[14:32] <brobostigon> its an OSS version of second lifes servr software.
[14:35] <diddledan> aah
[14:35] <diddledan> is second life still a thing then? :-p
[14:37] <brobostigon> yes, vaguely.
[18:55] <knightwise> brobostigon: wonder if there are still more people using secondlife then irc
[18:57] <zmoylan-pi> is there a way to get a definitive number of irc users?
[18:58] <brobostigon> knightwise: good question.
[18:58] <zmoylan-pi> i can access irc via my dumb phone so it would be accessible to billions who don't have access to computer required to access second life
[19:00] <knightwise> I wonder if secondlife will be around long enough to witness the revolution of VR
[19:00] <zmoylan-pi> it would have a slight head start with the amount of users and existing 3d creations
[19:01] <knightwise> True. but it would look awefully "blocky" and "pixely" ..
[19:01] <zmoylan-pi> i'd suspect someone has already made a vr unit for second life.... ::goes to check::
[19:01] <knightwise> wait .. Thats kinda like minecraft so i think we will be fine
[19:01] <zmoylan-pi> been blocky and pixely has really held back minecraft :-P
[19:01] <zmoylan-pi> dynf :-D
[19:03] <zmoylan-pi> you can use occulus rift on second life seemingly
[19:03] <zmoylan-pi> and also google cardboard
[19:04]  * zmoylan-pi remembers games like driller and tau ceti on the zx spectrum which were fairly complicated 3d worlds on an 8 bit processor
[19:05] <zmoylan-pi> in the 80s...
[19:07] <zmoylan-pi> the real problem with vr is that a % of people are 'allergic' to it and it makes them feel sick
[19:09] <JAWC> I have wondered if AR would allow me to read without getting travel sick.
[19:11] <zmoylan-pi> i found using a small screen was more comfy reading while in a moving vehicle.  a 2-3" screen versus 4-5" was more comfy. probaly allowed my brain to see more of the horizon moving than bigger screen blocking it out.
[19:12] <zmoylan-pi> in same way they sea sickness is lessened if you go to part of ship were you can see horizon which tells your brain what's happening versus your inner ear which is sending bad info


[00:27] <pleia2> looks like we still have a couple articles we need summaries for if anyone has time
[03:34] <gonyere> pleia2 - I added a couple of summaries and made a few other minor edits :)
[03:35] <pleia2> gonyere: thanks! please go ahead and add your name to the credits at the bottom if you want
[03:37] <pleia2> great summaries
[03:38] <gonyere> :)
[03:48] <pleia2> ok, sent off to editors, if anyone else wants to look for errors too: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue345
[08:01] <dholbach> good morning
[17:11] <PaulW2U> pleia2: It looks like schlopo and me have both reviewed UWN #345. OK to publish afaics. Already working on #346 :)
[17:13] <pleia2> \o/
[17:15]  * pleia2 peers at the clock
[17:15] <pleia2> not sure I can release before my appointment with the DMV, so I think I'll do it when I return


[08:19] <jsgotangco> hello
[08:22] <jsgotangco> venda: chill
[08:23] <venda> morn jsgotangco
[08:23] <jsgotangco> venda: im not in favor of railroading either
[08:24] <venda> well then say so, don't beat around the bush
[08:24] <jsgotangco> (i was actually non-existant in the meeting last night because of my connection
[08:24] <venda> I saw that, I read the log
[08:24] <jsgotangco> badly lagged
[08:25] <venda> I did not see anything on the agenda worth meeting for
[08:25] <venda> the main item seemed to be about localhelp
[08:25] <venda> a discussion that was not even attempted properly on the list
[08:26] <venda> and which it seems is being politically forced down everyones throats
[08:26] <venda> The idea is good, it's just the way they are going about it that is ticking me off
[08:26] <jsgotangco> i would worry more about the content rather than the front for now
[08:26] <jsgotangco> our content is almost non-existant
[08:27] <jsgotangco> at the moment
[08:27] <venda> eactly
[08:27] <venda> if Matthew wants to write and be a help he should do so on the current objectives
[08:27] <venda> smae goes for Burgundavia
[08:27] <venda> not derail current focus
[08:28] <venda> rob^: has done great work
[08:28] <venda> and mpt and Burgundavia can fork, but if they do then they should not defocus the teams
[08:28] <jsgotangco> jeff and i are slowly builing the styleguide
[08:29] <venda> and work on edubuntu is moving forward
[08:29] <venda> it takes time
[08:29] <venda> and focus
[08:29] <jsgotangco> it does
[08:29] <venda> I am very busy now and not paying attention
[08:29] <venda> so I play catchup
[08:30] <venda> but when I see this kind of negative political behaviour it makes me wonder
[08:30] <jdub> venda: i missed the meeting too; what's the 'localhelp' stuff you're concerned about?
[08:30] <venda> See launch pad
[08:31] <jsgotangco> launchpad?
[08:31] <venda> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/products/ubuntu-help
[08:32] <jsgotangco> oh jeezz
[08:33] <venda> I don't mind the fact that they forked FAQ Guide. That is their choice.
[08:33] <venda> I even think that the idea of the outline is good
[08:33] <venda> I don't think it should be outside svn
[08:34] <venda> I don't think it should position itself as the defacto for ubuntu-help
[08:34] <jsgotangco> faqguide? i agree
[08:34] <venda> I don't think it should impact on license
[08:35] <venda> I don't think it should be defocusing the docteam from DocteamProjects
[08:35] <venda> There is space for localhelp and faqguide in the distro
[08:36] <venda> morn rob^
[08:36] <rob^> hey venda
[08:36] <rob^> I take it you got the email?
[08:36] <highvoltage> hi venda
[08:37] <jsgotangco> jdub: busy?
[08:41] <jdub> this is what has been discussed for ages; the document-as-front-page thing
[08:42] <jdub> jsgotangco: yeah
[08:43] <jsgotangco> jdub: ok i just wanted to ask you what can you suggest on a conference presentation geared towards corporate adoption
[08:43] <venda> jdub: no we have discussed that the structure should change
[08:43] <venda> jdub: not  that a document will replace it
[08:44] <venda> jdub: we do not see it the way mpt and Burgundavia have put it
[08:47] <venda> jdub: rob^ has indicated what we have in mind and I know that most of the team agrees with that approach
[08:47] <venda> jdub: I like the locahelp outline, but I don't see it as the frontpage of help in Ubuntu
[08:48] <venda> jdub: localhelp is jus one more document type from which users can read to get help
[08:48] <venda> jdub: localhelp should share level 1 in the help system along with faqguide, quickguide, userguide etc
[08:49] <venda> jdub: not take precedence over
[08:49] <venda> jdub: in addition it should be an integral part of docteam work, not an external
[08:50] <venda> jdub: the license issue. GPL is not a documentation licesne
[08:50] <venda> GFDL is
[08:51] <venda> As for the debian argument, I fail to see how debain will use ubuntu localhelp as the default for their own help :-)
[08:52] <venda> Debian just uses their own or that of upstream
[08:52] <venda> such as gnome
[08:52] <venda> or kde
[08:52] <jsgotangco> i'd rather do upstream work for that (which i plan in the future)
[08:53] <venda> jsgotangco: I sometimes think of moving upstream altogether :-)
[08:56] <jdub> venda: the point of the document-as-front-page is to link to all the available documentation; but i'm not going to argue about the specifics
[08:57] <jdub> jsgotangco: (it's highly likely that GNOME will shift to this style of front page in the near future)
[08:57] <jdub> jsgotangco: (rather than just the ooky index)
[08:58] <jsgotangco> jdub: i don't argue with that part of the front page really...yelp is what we have at the moment and the document as front page is the best workaround we currently have imo
[08:59] <jdub> i wouldn't describe it as a workaround (for the front page of a help browser - there are a lot of other issues that need to be fixed that are unrelated to that)
[09:00] <jsgotangco> ah
[09:04] <venda> jdub: we have not agreed that help should use the outline here
[09:04] <venda> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LocalHelp?highlight=%28localhelp%29
[09:04] <venda> people do not agree that the outline here should be what is the front page
[09:05] <venda> the number of topics in that outline is never ending
[09:05] <venda> and topics are often inter-related
[09:06] <jsgotangco> yeah i told them before its too long for a front page though
[09:06] <venda> what they are trying too do is do a google type of categorization project
[09:06] <venda> so why not just use google
[09:06] <rob^> jsgotangco, yes, as have I
[09:07] <venda> the solution to rapid information retrieval is not another doc. It needs a technological soclution
[09:07] <jsgotangco> our current work are books in structure, but it doesn't mean they should be written like books
[09:07] <venda> search and idex
[09:07] <jdub> venda: you'll note that the proposal specifically raises search and index, and how it is related to the spec
[09:08] <jdub> jsgotangco: right, but that has to be solved differently (and the doc that contains the front page could actually contain the non-book documentation, too)
[09:08] <venda> yes, but that is ok, its just that throwing one more document at an information organization and location problem is not the solution
[09:09] <venda> jdub: how long do you think that outline is going to get
[09:09] <jdub> venda: perhaps not to a problem that you are making up
[09:09] <venda> just off the top of my head I can add another 30 topic
[09:09] <jdub> but a crafted front page is a great way to introduce the help browser
[09:09] <jdub> which is the problem mpt is solving
[09:10] <venda> [09:02]  <jdub> venda: perhaps not to a problem that you are making up
[09:10] <venda> jdub: me and others in the team
[09:10] <venda> I don't stand alone in feeling that this is not the way to go
[09:10] <jdub> you didn't define the problem, you just stated that another document is not a solution
[09:10] <venda> dude we have done that in th epast a few times
[09:10] <jdub> the problem being solved is the not-entirely-user-worthy front page of yelp
[09:11] <venda> and the last mesages have indicated what people think
[09:12] <venda> jdub: you want to fix the problem then develop a proper help/documentation viewing system
[09:12] <venda> jdub: don't throw another doc at it
[09:12] <jdub> this solves a small problem in a simple fashion in a small amount of time
[09:12] <venda> the outline of that do is going to be huge
[09:13] <jdub> and regardless of the immediate problem, the help browser will need a crafted front page anyway
[09:13] <venda> and who decides what does in that outline
[09:13] <venda> how many cooks will keep that outline organized
[09:13] <rob^> everytime we change something in one of the docs, we are going to have to check the front page to make sure we are not breaking anything
[09:13] <rob^> what a pain
[09:13] <venda> I give it a few months and the ouline there will be a mess
[09:14] <venda> jdub: we have read and seen mpt's solution
[09:14] <venda> jdub: we have given it considerable thjought
[09:14] <jdub> i don't imagine all of those entries will be on it, nor do i see more being added (it specifically notes that they will be removed)
[09:14] <venda> jdub: it is a start in the direction we need, but it is not the solutiuon we need
[09:15] <jdub> it's a short term solution for a small problem
[09:15] <venda> jdub: who will be the judge of that
[09:15] <venda> jdub: an ugly hack that is not the solution, but just a bigger problem
[09:16] <jdub> okay, so, tell me what the front page of a help browser would be if it were not a crafted document
[09:16] <venda> jdub: what is stopping developers from improving yelp itself
[09:16] <jdub> it is not stopping improvement of yelp
[09:16] <venda> that was not the question
[09:16] <jdub> (in fact, it's pushing it along)
[09:17] <venda> why do developers not develop more on the existing yelp
[09:17] <venda> why do they not change it to solve the problems
[09:17] <jsgotangco> " Until then, it should contain no more than about a dozen subtopics."
[09:17] <jdub> this is a change designed to solve a problem
[09:17] <jsgotangco> fine with me
[09:17] <venda> jdub: who decides the limits
[09:17] <venda> who decides what is the toc and what is not
[09:18] <jdub> we do, based on what we perceive our users need
[09:18] <venda> jdub: there is not limit
[09:18] <venda> jdub: we don't even know what they need
[09:18] <jdub> some are usefully obvious, like "what's new in <current version>"
[09:19] <jdub> that's why we think critically, hypothesise, and make changes based on feedback
[09:19] <rob^> jdub, at the moment thats not whats happening
[09:19] <jdub> the current list is already based on what we know of our users
[09:19] <venda> jdub: hmm, and al animals are equal but some are more equal than others
[09:19] <jdub> (note that i don't believe it's final)
[09:20] <jdub> welcome to user-centric software design
[09:20] <jdub> it's hard
[09:20] <jdub> there's no system
[09:20] <venda> jdub: I would suggest you ask the users?
[09:20] <venda> jdub: nobody has asked them
[09:21] <jdub> well, two answers to that:
[09:21] <jsgotangco> *ahem* we do receive feedback on the list one way or another
[09:21] <jdub> a) users won't give immediately useful answers
[09:21] <venda> jdub: mpt and Burgundavia with a bit of input from some doc people have sucked their thumbs and decided for the mass
[09:21] <jdub> b) what's there is inferred and analysed from existing users
[09:21] <rob^> venda, thats how I see it
[09:21] <jdub> right, and that's what needs to be done to move forward
[09:21] <jdub> then we iterate and improve
[09:22] <venda> jdub: do perform user centric design you need to advertise to users and show them what you mean and request input
[09:22] <jdub> (my first thought is that the language could be clearer, which i'll have to suggest)
[09:23] <jdub> well, for a start, that will happen (to a degree) as soon as it lands
[09:23] <venda> jdub: I must go now. But I have said what I think, if it counts, and I think others have also indictated disatisfaction with the approach to work method and the solution being presented.
[09:23] <jdub> secondly, this sort of thing can be tested without even landing the changes
[09:24] <jdub> but before you do user testing, you have to design something to test
[09:24] <venda> right, but with input from a design team which is not happening
[09:25] <jdub> as far as i can see, mpt and corey are the design team
[09:25] <jdub> and i'm sure they'll accept feedback with good rationale
[09:25] <venda> jdub: they forked FAQGUide and because people did not agree
[09:25] <venda> jdub: they then just forced this approach
[09:25] <jdub> i don't believe that's the sum total of what this line of action means
[09:25] <venda> jdub: its all in the lists and the logs
[09:26] <venda> jdub: it does not have to be. But mpt and Burgundavia are very dictatorial over what happens
[09:26] <venda> which is leaving people with a bad taste
[09:26] <venda> defocuing the team
[09:27] <venda> and fragmenting the effort
[09:27] <jdub> ah yes, dictatorial bad taste
[09:27] <venda> if we did not have issues we would not be discusing them'
[09:27] <venda> people, other than myself, have voiced concern
[09:28] <venda> and they have been brushed off
[09:28] <jsgotangco> i could understand Burgundavia's case but mpt just sprang up all of a sudden
[09:28] <venda> the approach at present smacks of railroading
[09:28] <venda> jsgotangco: we all see Burgundavia case
[09:29] <venda> jsgotangco: we even agree with him in many points
[09:29] <jsgotangco> but not the methodologies
[09:29] <venda> but in the sapce of two days it was bagged and balled
[09:29] <venda> taken as that is the way it will be
[09:29] <venda> like it or love it
[09:30] <venda> argue and we will cut you off at the knees
[09:30] <venda> Oh and just to make sure we will do it all outside of the current structures
[09:30] <jsgotangco> yes just like the crusades...
[09:30] <venda> fuck all of you is written all over this
[09:30] <venda> well my day in the real world must begin
[09:31] <venda> later
[09:31] <jsgotangco> *whew*
[09:31] <jdub> that dude has so much bile
[09:32] <rob^> yes
[09:32] <rob^> but there is a reason behind it
[09:32] <jsgotangco> changes are good but we don't need a revolution
[09:32] <rob^> jsgotangco, agreed
[09:33] <jdub> sounds like everyones assuming the worst
[09:33] <jsgotangco> hmm no not really
[09:33] <jsgotangco> i really like to change the front page really
[09:33] <rob^> as would most people
[09:33] <jsgotangco> but we'd like to be "in the know" at least of what's the master plan
[09:33] <rob^> but we feel like we are being forced into something we haven't discussed or agreed to
[09:34] <jdub> rob^: sure, but if you assume you're being forced, you're going to argue against it, everyone's going to get emotional, and no one's going to be focusing on settling problems :)
[09:35] <rob^> jdub, I would like to settle the problems, but I'd at least like some input into the settling
[09:35] <jdub> "I call again for people to focus on writing the docs and ignore the noise." <- totally the wrong strategy
[09:36] <jsgotangco> well its august next week and a lot of docs still needs love...
[09:37] <jdub> rob^: stoffers?
[09:38] <rob^> jdub, yes
[09:38] <jdub> just read your mail
[09:39] <jsgotangco> hmmm why did he cc mako he's on the list anyways
[09:40] <rob^> he feels strongly about it
[09:40] <jsgotangco>  Life at Kubuntu is much easier and not as
[09:40] <jsgotangco> politically or religiously charged as ubuntu.
[09:40] <jsgotangco> i hate it when he says that
[09:41] <jdub> it's needlessly and purposefully divisive
[09:41] <highvoltage> *sigh*
[09:41] <jsgotangco> jdub: i agree
[09:42] <jsgotangco> highvoltage: welcome to an ordinary day at #ubuntu-doc heh
[09:45] <jsgotangco> jdub: what do you suggest for a conference Ubuntu presentation geared towards community and corporate types? Advocacy? Technology?
[09:47] <jdub> you've seen my ones?
[09:47] <jdub> hrm, wonder which are up now
[09:48] <jdub> http://people.ubuntu.com/~jdub/2005/ubuntu-on-the-desktop/
[09:48] <jdub> seen that one?
[09:48] <rob^> jdub, that one is quite good, bit dated though
[09:49] <rob^> well.. now anyway
[09:49] <jsgotangco> jdub: i've seen those and plan to incorporate them
[09:50] <jsgotangco> well mordernize it a bit
[10:00] <jsgotangco> jdub: i sure wish i can still get a hold of the raw image used for the CD cover though it will help a lot with making paraphernalia...
[11:25] <mdke> oh great
[11:26] <jsgotangco> welcome mr. barrister
[11:27] <mdke> this team is not a team at all
[11:27] <jsgotangco> yeah we're better off with a steamroller i guess
[11:28] <mdke> the crazy thing is that this sort of problem is easy to resolve
[11:28] <mdke> we have two divisive factions, both of which aren't remotely interested in resolving matters through communication
[11:29] <jsgotangco> please elaborate
[11:29] <mdke> its up to us stuck in the middle to try
[11:29] <mdke> erm
[11:30] <mdke> ok elaborate
[11:30] <mdke> after breakfast tho
[11:30] <jsgotangco> duhh
[11:31] <jsgotangco> im leaving in half an hour to try to catch up on the edubuntu meeting at 12utc
[11:31] <mdke> k
[11:32] <jsgotangco> mdke, let's just start Ubuntu-legal
[11:32] <jsgotangco> i'll be your paralegal
[11:32] <mdke> well rob^ is right that corey and matt haven't gone about this the right way, which is to look for team consensus.
[11:32] <mdke> however froud is way divisive too
[11:33] <mdke> his reaction is "let's not talk about this"
[11:33] <mdke> we need to figure out how to make a team here
[11:34] <jsgotangco> having sane people would be a good start
[11:34] <mdke> well we have some ;)
[11:34] <mdke> btw can i change the subject?
[11:34] <jsgotangco> sure
[11:34] <mdke> launchpad group
[11:34] <mdke> nice idea
[11:34] <jsgotangco> heh the WIKI team had one
[11:35] <jsgotangco> what the heck why cant UDP
[11:35] <jsgotangco> at least i said "Project" not "Team"
[11:35] <jsgotangco> heh
[11:35] <mdke> however, the main purpose of a group would be ultimately to control permissions IMO, like to a baz or svn repo, i think the group should be limited to those with commit access
[11:35] <mdke> just an idea
[11:36] <jsgotangco> all the people in the group?
[11:36] <mdke> well as i see it the whole purpose of launchpad groups is to deal with permissions to do stuff
[11:37] <jsgotangco> ok you lost me
[11:37] <jsgotangco> permissions to what
[11:37] <mdke> ok for example
[11:37] <mdke> if you want to translate in rosetta you can only make suggestions right?
[11:37] <mdke> unless you are a member of the translation group for a particular language
[11:37] <jsgotangco> hmmm right
[11:38] <mdke> the same applies to other groups
[11:38] <jsgotangco> (which reminds me i should make a translation group for ours)
[11:38] <mdke> ubuntu backporters get to upload to the backport repo, ubuntu gnome team get to work on gnome projects, etc etc
[11:38] <jsgotangco> mdke, assuming our work is in launchpad?
[11:39] <mdke> jsgotangco, it might not be in launchpad, but it might easily one day be controlled by launchpad
[11:39] <mdke> e.g. commit access is granted by accession to the group in launchpad
[11:39] <mdke> i see that as the main reason for making a group
[11:40] <jsgotangco> hmm but launchpad currently has only 2 access modes
[11:40] <jsgotangco> member and admin
[11:40] <mdke> no, no
[11:40] <mdke> membership of a particular group gives certain rights
[11:40] <mdke> e.g. rosetta administrators can upload po files or whatever
[11:40] <jsgotangco> ah alright i think i get your idea
[11:40] <mdke> bazaar developers can upload their patches
[11:40] <mdke> etc etc
[11:41] <mdke> MOTU can upload theirs, and close bugs or whatever
[11:41] <mdke> i _think_ that is the idea
[11:41] <jsgotangco> well yes by design of launchpad it makes sense
[11:41] <jsgotangco> hmm
[11:41] <jsgotangco> btw
[11:41] <jsgotangco> i got invited to do a talk on LinuxWorld Philippines
[11:41] <mdke> that's been distorted a bit recently by the creation of random reams like new user network
[11:42] <mdke> reams/teams
[11:42] <jsgotangco> ahhh right
[11:42] <mdke> but i think that is the idea
[11:42] <jsgotangco> it does make sense for uploading teams though
[11:42] <jsgotangco> but then we have Ubuntu Members
[11:42] <mdke> yes
[11:42] <mdke> and eventually being in that team will also give certain rights
[11:43] <mdke> like email addresses or whatever else
[11:43] <jsgotangco> i think the email address thing will be automated in launchpad once membership for a certain person is approved
[11:43] <mdke> anyway, just an idea for the future
[11:43] <mdke> yep
[11:44] <jsgotangco> and will let members adjust their accounts accordingly
[11:44] <mdke> anyway the team is moderated so you can think about it
[11:45] <jsgotangco> i can make anyone an admin if needed
[11:45] <jsgotangco> it just happened i created the team
[11:45] <mdke> keep just you IMHO
[11:45] <jsgotangco> ok
[11:45] <jsgotangco> btw
[11:45] <jsgotangco> how was your ceremony
[11:46] <mdke> it was ok
[11:46] <mdke> i'm now a lawyer
[11:46] <jsgotangco> you should have celebrated by suing someone
[11:46] <jsgotangco> *joke*
[11:46] <mdke> not a bad idea...
[11:46] <mdke> i can't practice though for another year
[11:46] <jsgotangco> why so?
[11:46] <mdke> i need to do a year of training before I'm fully qualified
[11:47] <jsgotangco> err doesn't make you technically unemployed as a lawyer
[11:47] <jsgotangco> that
[11:47] <mdke> yes
[11:47] <mdke> i start my year of training in october
[11:47] <mdke> ooh launchpad has timezones for members now...
[11:47] <mdke> cool
[11:47] <jsgotangco> yeah
[11:47] <jsgotangco> hrmm
[11:48] <jsgotangco> ubuntite?
[11:48] <mdke> Timezone:  Europe/London
[11:49] <mdke> ok i gtg
[11:49] <mdke> have fun!
[11:49] <jsgotangco> me too
[11:49] <jsgotangco> see you later
[03:11] <jsgotangco> hey jjesse
[03:13] <jjesse> hiya jsgotangco
[03:20] <jsgotangco> enrico: long time no chat!
[03:22] <enrico> jsgotangco: eh.  at the moment I'm busy reinstalling the home sevrer
[03:24] <jsgotangco> hope everything is well with you
[03:31] <jjesse> why do all the ubuntu servers take so $#@$#$$ long to load web pages for me
[03:32] <jsgotangco> mmm
[03:32] <jsgotangco> ask elmo i guess
[03:45] <jsgotangco> greets mgalvin
[03:48] <mgalvin> hi jsgotangco
[03:48] <mgalvin> hi all
[03:49] <jjesse> hiya mgalvin
[04:01] <mgalvin> hey jjesse
[04:02] <mgalvin> been busy past few days... rob^ went to town on the faqguide :)
[04:02] <mgalvin> rob^: kudos :)
[04:03] <jjesse> hey KUDOS is the Kubuntu User Guide :)
[06:58] <jjesse> hiya rob^
[07:25] <rob^> ping mpt
[07:26] <mpt> rob^: pong
[07:26] <rob^> hey
[07:27] <rob^> I have been having a good look at your proposal for the yelp front page
[07:27] <rob^> I think what you have there are some pretty good ideas
[07:27] <mpt> cool
[07:27] <mpt> I have some comments on your proposal too, but not sure where to post them
[07:28] <mpt> If I put them on the wiki page itself, the comments would be larger than the original :-)
[07:28] <rob^> heh
[07:28] <rob^> I think the idea that help should be about "help" and less about books is a good one
[07:28] <mpt> mmm
[07:30] <rob^> the main problem I have is that of rail roading
[07:30] <mpt> rail roading?
[07:30] <rob^> not on your behalf
[07:30] <rob^> but on behalf of corey
[07:31] <rob^> I was recently the recipient of much of this myself and as such looked at your proposal with "cloudy eyes"
[07:32] <rob^> what you have is actually pretty good
[07:33] <mpt> I don't mean to jump on anyone's toes
[07:33] <rob^> no
[07:33] <rob^> I realise that
[08:07] <mpt> Hmm, I need to rply to that "Future direction thread" :-)
[08:07] <rob^> heh
[08:07] <rob^> originaly the FAQ was licenced under the GPL
[08:08] <rob^> the reason we have it as BY-SA and GFDL is that the original authors agreed to let us use it under that
[08:08] <rob^> ubuntuguide.org that is
[08:10] <rob^> I doubt they would have a problem if we wanted to also use it under the GPL
[08:10] <rob^> but yeah, group debate is needed
[08:12] <rob^> well, I'm off to bed
[08:12] <rob^> night mpt, thanks for the talk
[08:18] <mpt> g'night
[08:21] <mdke> <3
[08:22] <mpt> mdke: ?
[08:24] <mdke> was worried the team love was getting at a low ebb
[08:24] <mdke> glad you two are gonna get your heads together
[08:24] <mpt> We're a dysfunctional family, but full of love
[08:24] <mdke> heh
[08:25] <mdke> like the simpsons
[08:25] <mpt> I thought Miguel had made it famous
[08:26] <mpt> ah, it's "You can now flame me, I am full of love"
[08:28] <mpt> http://everything2.com/?node_id=1084835
[08:31] <mgalvin> not sure if it matters much since debian will accept the by-sa lic soon anyway, but i have no objects to moving the powerpc.ubuntuguide.org content that i wrote to use GPL, we would still need chua's consent as well though
[09:07] <jjesse> in regards to my email yesterday on previewing docs is there a way in Kubuntu that I can preview docs before i upload them to svn?
[09:15] <mpt> yay freenode
[09:16] <mpt> mgalvin: the importance of the GPL is that it lets beautifully-written help sentences be moved from the help into the actual GUI of the relevant software, vastly increasing their effectiveness.
[09:30] <mgalvin> mpt: I see the light :) like i said i have no objects to using the g GPL, i am really not that picky about it and if it will make the docs more useful then +2


[11:57] <M_Cheevy> dooglus: I thought with all the places I couldn't log in as root from it was okay.. can't log in remotely or from the console as root
[11:57] <solomon> Well whatcha know... It's not what I would expect, but it is working as you said. Thank you much :)
[11:57] <CaptainMorgan> topyli, hmm... in settings/network there's no Ip listed..
[11:57] <jahshua> can someone please help me set up an identd server
[11:57] <CaptainMorgan> only port
[11:57] <jahshua> its supposed to be easy
[11:57] <jahshua> i just dont know how
[11:57] <jahshua> ;/
[11:57] <CaptainMorgan> does it need mine?
[11:58] <M_Cheevy> solomon: that's the problem with us old farts who learned unix back in the days when root was god.. now it's the devil incarnate ;)
[11:58] <slavefree> hello
[11:58] <_DEC_>
[11:58] <soundray> M_Cheevy, root is still god. You just don't want to invoke him too often in case the enemy is listening in.
[11:58] <dooglus> M_Cheevy: it's still not OK - because if I can log into your box remotely as 'M_Cheevy', then type "su" once I'm in, and I'm root...
[11:58] <solomon> LOL. I hear that, M_Cheevy. We always used to joke that root was a security risk and should be removed... Now they took us up on the idea...d'oh..
[11:59] <KrisWood> still no X
[11:59] <topyli> CaptainMorgan: the only thing is to make sure it gets to the network. the port it's listening to is better not be firewalled (if you have a firewall). and the proxy settings should be correct
[11:59] <Kartagis> M_Cheevy: hi again
[11:59] <M_Cheevy> dooglus: gotcha... like I said, nuked it as soon as you mentioned it
[11:59] <M_Cheevy> Kartagis: re-hi
[11:59] <KrisWood> I think I saw directions for reinstalling gnome on the ubuntu guide once
[11:59] <KrisWood> I'll try that
[11:59] <slavefree> does anyone know what happened to the freenode channel?
[11:59] <_jason> KrisWood, what have you tried?
[12:00] <CaptainMorgan> apparaently Im tcp firewalled.. how to turn off ? so I can see
[12:00] <CaptainMorgan> ?
[12:00] <M_Cheevy> dooglus: actually in my version of sudoers it's the group 'adm' not 'admin'


[08:07] <roh> hi there
[17:34] <Turbolinux> Hello everyone. Does Ubuntu 9.10 work fine on Toshiba NB200 series portable computers?
[17:35] <Turbolinux> İnternet notebook computers?


[04:35] <tjaalton> RAOF: doing sru's today? could you ack libdrm & xtrans backports to trusty?
[04:45] <RAOF> tjaalton: Tomorrow is my SRU day, but sure.
[04:45] <tjaalton> ah
[04:45] <tjaalton> ok
[04:45] <tjaalton> thx
[04:46] <tjaalton> the wiki is out of date then :)
[04:49] <RAOF> No, I'm on Tuesday in US time :)
[04:50] <RAOF> tjaalton: Heh. libdrm-tegra0 needs a description fix. I'm pretty sure it's not the accessor to exynos-specific DRM services :P
[04:51] <RAOF> Also, are we absolutely sure that no-one uses the drmAllocCpy symbol that's been dropped?
[04:52] <tjaalton> bah, maarten added tegra
[04:53] <tjaalton> I think the symbol was made non-public
[04:53] <RAOF> That's no different from being dropped :P
[04:54] <tjaalton> right.. but
[04:54] <tjaalton> I'll dig up the log
[04:59] <tjaalton> RAOF: http://sprunge.us/KQUH
[05:00] <RAOF> Yeah, so that technically breaks ABI.
[05:00] <RAOF> And when I say “technically”, what I mean is “that absolutely breaks ABI”.
[05:01] <RAOF> But it's unlikely that anyone's using that symbol...
[05:02] <tjaalton> noone complained so far
[05:03] <RAOF> Right.
[05:04] <RAOF> Of course, that commit *also* hasn't been in an LTS release :)
[05:05] <tjaalton> yep, new in 2.4.60
[05:05] <RAOF> tjaalton: Hm, how about I reject that, you fix the tegra description and un-staticise that symbol, and then I'll accept?
[05:06] <tjaalton> o
[05:06] <tjaalton> k
[05:06] <tjaalton> fixing vivid too then?
[05:06] <RAOF> The description, sure.
[05:07] <RAOF> I don't expect that symbol to be used anywhere outside of libdrm, but would feel *really* stupid if I ACKd the SRU and it broke something.
[05:07] <RAOF> Cost-benefit is a bit different for vivid :)
[05:07] <tjaalton> right
[05:11] <tjaalton> hm, screw vivid, it'll get fixed once carrizo support is added
[05:22] <tjaalton> RAOF: uploaded
[05:27] <RAOF> (You probably mean *fix* a typo in your changelog ☺)
[05:34] <tjaalton> oh I forgot the fix part
[05:35] <tjaalton> reject and I'll try again!
[05:36] <tjaalton> uploaded the new
[06:14] <tjaalton> rejected the faulty one myself
[06:17] <RAOF> Oh, ta.
[06:40] <tjaalton> thanks!
[06:41] <tjaalton> it'll end up in NEW, so the drama continues ;)
[06:41] <RAOF> :)
[06:45] <RAOF> That's nice and quick!
[06:46] <tjaalton> yeah
[06:46] <tjaalton> hmm does that hold amd64 back though? that's all I care for testing
[06:47] <RAOF> I think you should have all the !armhf stuff in trusty-proposed.
[06:47] <tjaalton> right, that's greta
[06:47] <tjaalton> -at
[07:09] <elfy> pitti: I saw the fix release against the remove media bug - did a rebuild for me, on vbox it just fails to start live session
[07:18] <elfy> same in kvm
[07:52] <infinity> micahg: Yeah, there will be more AA stuff.
[07:53] <infinity> wxl: There will be rebuilds this morning for people who didn't rebuild their own.
[08:08] <pitti> Good morning
[08:11] <pitti> elfy: downloading xubuntu daily now and having a look
[08:19] <pitti> elfy: ah, I see it; that's plumbed together differently on xubuntu, so I didn't see that on ubuntu
[08:31] <flexiondotorg> pitti, How is Xubuntu different? I have new Ubuntu MATE image building and I am wondering if I'll run into the same issue?
[08:32] <pitti> it's not different in the end, I just didn't test the code path that elfy meant
[08:32] <pitti> selecting live or install on gfxboot both works, but not selecting "try live session" in ubiquity-dm
[08:33] <flexiondotorg> pitti, Understood.
[08:33] <flexiondotorg> pitti, What change caused the regression?
[08:34] <pitti> in http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-installer/ubiquity/trunk/revision/6294
[08:34] <pitti> looking for the "Try live" button now, we need to start the real DM there too
[08:34] <flexiondotorg> pitti, Thanks.
[08:35] <flexiondotorg> pitti, Might this also interfere with oem-config once the system has been prepared?
[08:36] <pitti> flexiondotorg: no, oem-setup has its own .service
[08:36] <pitti> (and .upstart)
[08:36] <flexiondotorg> pitti, Ah. Of course.
[08:39] <darkxst> pitti, yes very much you need to launch the real dm at that point!
[08:39] <wgrant> infinity: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.subscriber=ubuntu-archive
[08:39] <wgrant> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/vivid/+bugs?field.subscriber=ubuntu-archive is also relevant, but empty.
[08:39] <darkxst> otherwise every flavour will be broken
[08:53] <pitti> elfy, darkxst, flexiondotorg, infinity: fixed ubiquity uploaded (with the revert), sorry for messing that up
[09:29] <darkxst> pitti, I assume, all that worked under ubuntu, display-manager.service is lightdm specific?
[09:30] <pitti> darkxst: no, it most likely has the same problem
[09:30] <pitti> display-manager.service applies to all DMs
[09:30] <darkxst> pitti, that is what I figured, but though you might have tested things before uploading
[09:31] <pitti> darkxst: I tested selecting live and install from gfxboot
[09:31] <pitti> but gfxboot doesn't have an option for the maybe-ubiquity mode, so I missed that, sorry
[09:31] <pitti> now I know about "maybe-ubiquity" :)
[09:34] <darkxst> pitti, np, i'm more curious about actually fixing the race, but alas no time this week
[09:34] <pitti> darkxst: which race now?
[09:34] <pitti> we fixed the shutdown race and the one with oem-config yesterday
[09:35] <darkxst> probably that, though this was related
[10:42] <tjaalton> infinity: libdrm and xtrans are now in trusty-proposed, llvm-toolchain-3.6 just got uploaded
[10:43] <tjaalton> infinity: upgrade and downgrade works, though downgrade needs 'apt install xserver-xorg libegl1-mesa-drivers xserver-xorg-video-all xserver-xorg-input-all' to pull everything
[10:43] <tjaalton> so once llvm is acked and past NEW, I could start pushing stuff to proposed
[10:46] <tjaalton> actually could start from the server
[11:01] <tjaalton> apt-get remove .*lts-vivid works for downgrade
[11:26] <bregma> hey folks, how do I get may latest Unity package (fix for #1446256) properly ACKed and moved from -proposed to -release so it gets on the image?
[11:46] <flexiondotorg> infinity, Are all the desktop flavours going to get a rebuild?
[12:03] <sil2100> popey: btw. was there a final decision on whether we should re-publish today scope in the store?
[12:04] <popey> sil2100: not my decision. I asked you! :)
[12:04] <sil2100> Just wanted to know if you got an override from victor or someone else ;)
[12:06] <infinity> flexiondotorg: They all got a rebuild this morning, but there will be more rebuilds, yes.
[12:06] <infinity> flexiondotorg: That shouldn't stop people from testing anyway.
[12:06] <flexiondotorg> infinity, Am doing :)
[12:06] <flexiondotorg> infinity, Just checking if the "final" rebuild was down to me.
[12:08] <infinity> flexiondotorg: No, I'm keeping track.
[12:08] <flexiondotorg> infinity, Thanks.
[12:10] <flexiondotorg> infinity, I have a patch that fixes this - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-mate/+bug/1445198
[12:11] <flexiondotorg> infinity, I've discussed it with the Debian maintainers and we have decided I should deviate the Ubuntu mate-terminal package.
[12:11] <flexiondotorg> infinity, What version should I give the new mate-terminal package for Ubuntu?
[12:11] <infinity> flexiondotorg: Wait, that's a bug in the terminal?
[12:12] <infinity> flexiondotorg: Anyhow, a new version would be 1.8.1+dfsg1-4ubuntu1
[12:12] <flexiondotorg> infinity, Yes. mate-terminal.wrapper doesn't support double quoted strings.
[12:12] <infinity> flexiondotorg: Which is what you get by default running "dch -i" on an Ubuntu system.
[12:13] <flexiondotorg> infinity, If I prepare a debdiff would you accept it?
[12:13] <infinity> flexiondotorg: I'll review it.  I won't promise I'll accept it unless it's correct. ;)
[12:13] <flexiondotorg> infinity, Sounds fair :)
[12:52]  * ogra_ tickles the publisher with a feather ... run publisher, run ...
[13:32] <flexiondotorg> infinity, Could you review this please? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-mate/+bug/1445198/comments/7
[14:00] <flexiondotorg> I'd like to file a sync request for mate-tweak from Debian unstable. It fixes a bug and adds translations. The package has not previously been synced from Debian so that changelog and history are different from the Ubuntu package.
[14:01] <flexiondotorg> Is there anything special I need to do.
[14:01] <infinity> flexiondotorg: I can sync it, lemme just look at a debdiff first.
[14:03] <jdstrand> fyi, I'm deleting apparmor-easyprof-ubuntu-snappy from the archive since we now use ubuntu-core-security instead
[14:04] <flexiondotorg> infinity, Shall I raise a request sync?
[14:04] <infinity> flexiondotorg: I already synced it.
[14:04] <flexiondotorg> infinity, Brilliant. You star!
[14:04] <infinity> jdstrand: Does it have any rdeps?
[14:04] <flexiondotorg> infinity, And thanks :)
[14:05] <infinity> adconrad@nosferatu:~$ reverse-depends src:apparmor-easyprof-ubuntu-snappy
[14:05] <infinity> Reverse-Depends
[14:05] <infinity> [14:05] <infinity> * ubuntu-snappy                 (for apparmor-easyprof-ubuntu-snappy)
[14:05] <infinity> jdstrand: ^
[14:05] <infinity> jdstrand: I feel like maybe that should be fixed before you delete things. :P
[14:06] <jdstrand> that seems not correct
[14:06] <jdstrand> it isn't on the image and http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/germinate-output/ubuntu.vivid/rdepends/ALL/apparmor-easyprof-ubuntu-snappy shows nothing and it fell out of main today
[14:07] <cjwatson> reverse-depends has a bit of lag.
[14:07] <cjwatson> That's why checkrdepends still exists on ubuntu-archive@snakefruit, although in general it's less convenient because it requires a local dists mirror.
[14:08] <cjwatson> Still, I think that is in fact still current.
[14:08] <cjwatson> germinate rdepends only shows anything if it goes via something that's seeded, and snappy isn't in the ubuntu.vivid seeds.
[14:08] <infinity> jdstrand: It fell out of main because ubuntu-snappy isn't in main.
[14:09] <cjwatson> Hm, actually, ubuntu-snappy is in system-image ...
[14:09] <infinity> flexiondotorg: That mate-terminal change is rather substantial.  Not that I thikn switching from python to perl isn't a wonderful thing, but I suspect you could have fixed your bug in a few lines instead of a new scripts.
[14:09] <cjwatson> Is there a Provides maybe?
[14:09] <jdstrand> I should mention that ubuntu-core-security-apparmor uses a Provides: apparmor-easyprof-ubuntu-snappy
[14:10] <infinity> jdstrand: Ahh.  You should have mentioned that, yes. :)
[14:10] <cjwatson> Yeah, so that'll satisfy germinate and apt, but shouldn't the dependency be updated anyway?
[14:10] <jdstrand> it should
[14:10] <jdstrand> I'll adjust that too
[14:10] <cjwatson> Also surely should be Conflicts/Replaces/Provides rather than Breaks/Replaces/Provides.
[14:11] <infinity> jdstrand: Also, that shouldn't be Provides/Breaks/Replaces, it should be Provides/Conflicts/Replaces.
[14:11] <jdstrand> cjwatson: it actually doesn't Conflicts
[14:11] <infinity> jdstrand: C/R is what triggers package managers to swap packages.
[14:12] <infinity> jdstrand: It doesn't matter if it actually has file overlaps, if the goal is to have them not installed together (which is what I assume from your breaks).
[14:12] <cjwatson> Right, Conflicts/Replaces is a special thing that has distinct semantics.
[14:12] <cjwatson> See policy 7.6.2.
[14:12] <infinity> cjwatson: Did you look that up, or have you quoted it enough to have it burned in?
[14:12] <cjwatson> I looked it up. :-)
[14:16] <flexiondotorg> infinity, That mate-terminal.wrapper patch has been submitted upstream. Where I am an upstream developer.
[14:16] <flexiondotorg> infinity, We try to align with GNOME where possible these days.
[14:17] <infinity> flexiondotorg: I guess diffing with gnome-terminal.wrapper might make it more reviewable.
[14:18] <flexiondotorg> infinity, It is a 4 char diff if you do that :)
[14:19] <infinity> flexiondotorg: Right, lemme grab the diff, apply it, look at it locally, and upload for you if it looks sane.
[14:19] <flexiondotorg> infinity, Many thanks. I have build the revised package in a PPA and tested it works.
[14:22] <infinity> flexiondotorg: Which version of gnome-terminal did you copy that from?  It's very whitespace-different from the one on my system.
[14:22] <infinity> flexiondotorg: But a diff with -b (ignore whitespace) shows that it's the same, yes.
[14:23] <flexiondotorg> infinity, I cleaned up the whitespace because it is wrong in gnome-terminal.wrapper.
[14:23] <infinity> flexiondotorg: "wrong"? :P
[14:23] <infinity> flexiondotorg: if you're forking someone else's tool, it generally pays to keep it close to identical, so it's easier to cherry-pick in the future.
[14:24] <jdstrand> fyi, ubuntu-snappy trunk already removed reference to apparmor-easyprof-ubuntu-snappy, so the next upload will resolve that side
[14:32] <infinity> flexiondotorg: I mean, it's your call, it's your code, but I'd highly recommend not gratitously differing from gnome-terminal just to make it prettier.  *shrug*
[14:35] <flexiondotorg> infinity, Just chatted with the other MATE devs. We are happy with the cleaned up whitespace in my patch.
[14:38] <infinity> flexiondotorg: Mmkay.
[14:40] <infinity> flexiondotorg: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/203927315/mate-terminal_1.8.1%2Bdfsg1-4_1.8.1%2Bdfsg1-4ubuntu1.diff.gz <-- That's what I uploaded.  Look fine?
[14:41] <infinity> flexiondotorg: I fixed one of your other patches too, which was missing a trailing line, and ran update-maintainer.
[14:42] <flexiondotorg> infinity, Just looking now...
[14:43] <flexiondotorg> infinity, Look good. Thank you.
[15:46] <jderose> infinity: FYI, oem-config isn't getting installed in oem-mode with 20150421.1
[15:46] <jderose> infinity: if i recall, you said this happens when your local repo is out of sync when build the ISO?
[15:48] <flexiondotorg> jderose, What is your oem-config issue exactly?
[15:49] <flexiondotorg> jderose, I ask because I've had issue with for weeks, but as of earlier today (Ubuntu MATE rebuild) it is working, for me at least.
[15:49] <flexiondotorg> jderose, And the OEM has also confirmed it working on their range of hardware.
[15:49] <jderose> flexiondotorg: ubiquity-frontend-gtk, oem-config-gtk aren't installed after you do an oem-mode install... so you have to manually install them afterwards
[15:50] <flexiondotorg> jderose, What flavour?
[15:50] <jderose> ubuntu desktop
[15:50] <flexiondotorg> jderose, I'll test that here now
[15:51] <jderose> wasn't an issue with 20150421, but is with 20150421.1
[15:51] <flexiondotorg> jderose, Sounds worrying.
[15:52] <jderose> it frequently happens in daily ISO during the dev cycle, i think it's something infinity can easily fix :)
[15:52] <infinity> jderose: Yeah, it's version skew, I'll make sure that's fixed before tonight's respin.
[15:53] <jderose> infinity: cool, thanks!
[15:56] <elfy> infinity: any reason for me not to rebuild xubuntu?
[16:04] <infinity> elfy: I'll be rebuilding the world very soon, don't do it.
[16:05] <elfy> ok - just concerned about time is all - I'd like to see a booting one for me before 2200 - when I will promptly crash till tomorrow :)
[16:16] <Odd_Bloke> infinity: What's the rebuild for; will it affect cloud images?
[16:17] <infinity> Odd_Bloke: Depends on when you last built your cloud images.
[16:17] <Odd_Bloke> infinity: Since midnight UTC?
[16:18] <infinity> Odd_Bloke: You're missing the latest libaudit update, so yes.
[16:18] <Odd_Bloke> *sobs gently in to his beer*
[16:19] <infinity> Odd_Bloke: Welcome to release week?
[16:19] <Odd_Bloke> Why do you think I bought the beer? :p
[16:19] <infinity> Odd_Bloke: If Friday's images were perfect, we'd not block off a week to do this. :P
[16:33] <flexiondotorg> infinity, I appreciate you have a lot going on right now but is the virtualbox-guest-x11 drivers issue still ear marked for getting fixed? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-properties/+bug/1434579
[16:33] <infinity> flexiondotorg: Yes.
[16:33] <infinity> flexiondotorg: Just crazy busy.
[16:33] <flexiondotorg> infinity, I can't imagine. But thank for getting back to me :)
[16:51] <wxl> infinity: should i rebuild again for any reason?
[16:51] <Ukikie> He's going to rebuild world soon.
[17:05] <jibel> wxl, there is one more ubiquity fix coming
[17:06] <wxl> jibel: great, thanks for the heads up. i assume we'll get a global rebuild?
[17:06] <jibel> wxl, yes
[17:07] <wxl> jibel: is this expected to complete today?
[17:08] <jibel> wxl, yes, likely today
[17:08] <wxl> k thanks jibel !
[17:14] <Laney> glib2.0 fixes that trash bug in the installer (probably)
[17:14] <Laney> up to you if you want to get that in for the respin or not
[17:18] <Laney> s/installer/live environment/
[17:25] <infinity> Laney: I'm reviewing it.
[19:26] <jderose> infinity: when are you planning on spinning the next ubuntu desktop daily iso?
[20:34] <robru> infinity: can you approve ubuntu-ui-toolkit? pitti wanted it but couldn't wait for the silo to publish
[21:26] <slangasek> robru: what does "couldn't wait for the silo to publish" mean?  It looks like this is a copy from the silo
[21:29] <robru> slangasek: it means that pitti wanted this but needed to EOD. so he's not here to advocate for it, I'm requesting it on his behalf.
[21:29] <slangasek> ok
[21:31] <infinity> robru: Can do.
[21:31] <robru> infinity: thanks!
[21:47] <cyphermox> release team: I'd have two fixes which may be nice to land before release, one for console-setup ^
[21:48] <cyphermox> and the other for partman-multipath.
[21:48] <slangasek> infinity: ^^ console-setup is your debconf prompt on upgrade bug; the multipath one is an issue with multipathd offhandedly corrupting your disks
[21:49] <slangasek> I think technically both could go to 0-day SRU as neither impacts the installer per se
[21:49] <cyphermox> true
[22:18] <slangasek> cyphermox, infinity: oh, I just noticed the multipath change is a partman workaround, not a fix for multipath-tools itself... that of course needs to go into the installer proper...
[22:21] <slangasek> partman-multipath isn't in the initramfs itself, but I'm not sure if d-i will pull components from -updates in all circumstances
[22:22] <slangasek> it looks like it "only" requires a respin of ubuntu-server and lubuntu


[05:06] <jook> Hey folks. Anyone know about Wubi? I'm having some trouble with the second reboot.
[06:11] <jook> Anyone know about Wubi? I'm having some trouble with the second reboot. It just goes to a grub command prompt, and I don't have a clue what to do with that.
[12:08] <CIA-4> debian-installer: cjwatson * r1322 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 20100211ubuntu9
[14:35] <corecode> hey
[14:35] <corecode> is the netboot install kernel different from the default linux-image?
[14:35] <corecode> i'm missing the atl1c ethernet module
[14:39] <cjwatson> the kernel is the same but the initrd is different
[14:39] <cjwatson> the bug you refer to is bug 557130, fixed in maverick
[14:39] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 557130 in linux (Ubuntu Maverick) (and 2 other projects) "Kernel module atl1c missing from installer image (affects: 4) (heat: 26)" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/557130
[14:47] <corecode> comment 10 talks about -proposed
[14:48] <corecode> can i just copy the -proposed installer image and it should work?
[14:48] <corecode> i'll try that
[14:52] <corecode> nope, that one doesn't contain atl1c either
[14:54] <corecode> try2: copy module into initrd
[15:19] <corecode> yep, that worked
[15:19] <corecode> had some trouble with re-generating the cpio tho :)


[18:13] <MasterPhi> Hey guys, I'm having a lot of bugs with rendering on Chrome. Pretty sure it's related to my VGA (Intel HD4600). Does anyone know how to fix this?
[18:20] <ricotz> darkxst, jfyi, pushed nautilus with some git patches
[23:01] <Inoki> darkxst you here?