[15:09] <wodny> hi, may i ask here for help with a debian kernel 3.16.7-ckt11-1+deb8u6?
[18:35] <h2> oh no, installed the wily lts kernel on trusty server sunday, crashed hard today.
[18:36] <apw> h2, did you get a crash stack from it ?
[18:42] <h2> apw: not yet at least, and i don't have high hopes for finding one.  (still wiating for reboot)
[18:42] <h2> remote ctrl-alt-del not working i guess
[19:34] <h2> looks like something in fuse
[19:35] <h2> http://paste.ubuntu.com/14143077/
[19:36] <h2> apw: ^ that's all i got.  (still have to rebuild, a manual hw reset was required)
[20:19] <h2> all right well it's crashed now with both 3.16 and 4.2, so guess that's not the problem.
[20:20]  * h2 hates hardware
[20:21] <apw> h2, bah those are the worst, bug which appear when you change s/w and turn out to be h/w after all
[20:22] <h2> now to think where i should move my kernel builds to
[20:22] <h2> wonder how digitalocean does


[06:53] <sdfsaedcjhm> hi
[06:54] <sdfsaedcjhm> someone here?
[12:34] <dholbach> @now gmt
[12:34] <dholbach> @schedule berlin
[12:34] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 13 Sep 22:00: Edubuntu | 14 Sep 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 19 Sep 14:00: Community Council | 20 Sep 14:00: Edubuntu | 21 Sep 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 26 Sep 22:00: Technical Board
[12:34] <dholbach> @schedule gmt
[12:34] <dholbach> hmhmhmmhmh
[12:34] <Fujitsu> UTC, perhaps?
[12:34] <Fujitsu> @now utc
[12:34] <Ubugtu> Current time in Etc/UTC: September 13 2006, 10:34:51 - Next meeting: Edubuntu in 9 hours 25 minutes
[12:34] <Fujitsu> GMT is old!
[12:37] <dholbach> i know it is - somebody referred to a gmt time
[02:30] <jono> hi all
[02:34] <highvoltage> hi jono
[02:34] <jono> hey highvoltage
[02:34] <jono> does this chan grab its event details from the fridge calendar?
[02:35] <highvoltage> depends on your definition of grab
[02:35] <highvoltage> the bot does
[02:35] <highvoltage> @schedule
[02:35] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 13 Sep 20:00: Edubuntu | 14 Sep 07:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 19 Sep 12:00: Community Council | 20 Sep 12:00: Edubuntu | 21 Sep 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 26 Sep 20:00: Technical Board
[02:35] <highvoltage> ^^^ that comes from the fridge
[02:35] <jono> right
[02:35] <jono> so to add an event, I add it to the fridge
[02:35] <highvoltage> ooh, ok, seems that the topic is also set by ubotu
[02:35] <highvoltage> yes, that's the way to go
[02:36] <jono> ok cool
[02:36] <jono> if only the fridge guys were alive right now :P
[02:36] <highvoltage> :)
[02:36] <highvoltage> they are frozen like dr evil
[02:36] <ogra> just mail fridge-devel
[02:44] <Hobbsee> jono: just email fridge-devel - they add it pretty quickly
[02:44] <jono> well, I am a fridge editor, I just want someone else to confirm its OK to include :)
[02:51] <Hobbsee> hehe
[02:51] <Hobbsee> yeah
[04:32] <Seveas> yeah
[04:32] <Seveas> jono, !
[04:33] <jono> CyberKing, pong
[04:33] <jono> yeah its 2pm UTC
[04:33] <jono> I updated the time, just needs refreshing
[04:34] <Seveas> @topic
[04:35] <Seveas> hmm, fridge still says 15:00
[04:35] <Seveas> (@topic forces a refresh)
[04:35] <Seveas> odd
[04:36] <Seveas> @reload Webcal
[04:37] <Seveas> jono, the website says the correct time, the iCal feed not
[04:37] <jono> Seveas, ahhh
[04:37] <Seveas> DTSTART;VALUE=DATE-TIME:20060918T150000Z
[04:37] <Seveas> DTEND;VALUE=DATE-TIME:20060918T160000Z
[04:39] <Seveas> we can
[04:39] <Seveas> but ubugtu will hate you and restore it
[04:39] <Seveas> ;)
[04:40] <Seveas> see =)
[04:40] <Seveas> yes
[04:46] <dholbach> he programs thing to hate people
[04:47] <Seveas> jono, the ical feed is still bad, now says noon UTC
[04:47] <Seveas> DTSTART;VALUE=DATE-TIME:20060919T120000Z
[04:47] <Seveas> DTEND;VALUE=DATE-TIME:20060919T140000Z
[04:47] <Seveas> on the 19th
[04:48] <jono> Seveas, it must be broken
[04:48] <Seveas> I think so
[04:48] <jono> any idea who maintains it ?
[04:48] <Seveas> ah, wait, I looked at the wrong event
[04:48] <Seveas> it's still wrong, though
[04:49] <jono> :(
[04:49] <Seveas> I though the fridge software maintained the feed?
[04:50] <Seveas> so you should slap some fridge editors
[04:55] <jono> I will indeed slap
[05:06] <Seveas> @now Tehran
[05:06] <Ubugtu> Current time in Asia/Tehran: September 13 2006, 19:36:44 - Next meeting: Edubuntu in 4 hours 53 minutes
[09:12] <highvoltage> @schedule johannesburg
[09:12] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Africa/Johannesburg: 13 Sep 22:00: Edubuntu | 14 Sep 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 18 Sep 16:00: LoCo | 19 Sep 14:00: Community Council | 20 Sep 14:00: Edubuntu | 21 Sep 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team
[09:58] <pips1_> hi cbx33 and AliasVegas
[09:59] <cbx33> hi pips1_
[09:59] <pygi> Hello everyone ^_^
[09:59] <sharkybaby> hello
[10:00] <RichEd> hello
[10:00] <pips1_> hi everybody
[10:00] <AliasVegas> Hi pips1_
[10:01] <cbx33> evenin all
[10:01] <cbx33> boo ogra
[10:01] <highvoltage> hi!
[10:01] <ogra> bee
[10:01] <pips1_> cbx33 ?
[10:01] <cbx33> pips1_, what ?
[10:01] <cbx33> I was trying to scare ogra ;)
[10:01] <pips1_> boo?
[10:02] <pips1_> :)
[10:02] <ogra> i'm to happy to get scared by anything :)
[10:02] <sharkybaby> :)
[10:02] <pygi> ogra, nice ^_^
[10:02] <cbx33> oversized CD images ?
[10:03] <ogra> nope
[10:03] <highvoltage> last I heard was 698MB? :)
[10:03] <ogra> all fine
[10:03] <ogra> lots of bugs
[10:03] <ogra> but the install works
[10:03] <cbx33> oh dear
[10:03] <cbx33> excellent
[10:03] <cbx33> I'm just installing now
[10:03] <ogra> usplash looks funny .. -35 didnt make it on the CD it seems
[10:03] <cbx33> :(
[10:04] <LaserJock> ogra: will we need to do some trimming before final for size?
[10:04] <cbx33> what about the other artwork?
[10:04] <ogra> it has the wrong res but the progress bar sits at the right place
[10:04] <cbx33> I'm looking forward to see what it looks like
[10:04] <cbx33> LaserJock, !!!!
[10:05] <LaserJock> what
[10:05] <cbx33> hi dude !
[10:05] <LaserJock> what did I do?
[10:05] <LaserJock> oh
[10:05] <ogra> well, the background is moved 1/3 down and 1/3 to the right
[10:05] <cbx33> just saying an enthsiastic Hi!
[10:05] <cbx33> oh
[10:05] <ogra> is RichEd here ?
[10:05] <LaserJock> ok, I think I was more scared then ogra
[10:05] <RichEd> yep
[10:05] <ogra> and rodarvus ?
[10:06] <ogra> yeah, that was my worst day today
[10:06] <cbx33> ogra, did you get everything done
[10:06] <ogra> i have to get up in 5h for travelling and didnt even remotely belive i could get knot3 done
[10:06] <ogra> ok
[10:06] <ogra> TECH UPDATE  !!!
[10:06] <cbx33> must be a biggie
[10:06] <ogra> we have something that looks like knot 3 :)
[10:06] <cbx33> its in capitols
[10:07] <sbalneav> Hello hello
[10:07] <ogra> there are plenty of bugs in it but with patiency it installs
[10:07] <ogra> i'll set up a known issues page and add it to the channel topic (as usual)
[10:07] <ogra> some things dont work at all, some are easily solveable ...
[10:07] <cbx33> cool
[10:08] <ogra> nothing that makes me anxious for release
[10:08] <cbx33> ;)
[10:08] <ogra> for some of the ltsp bugs i'll have the best ppl around me the next days :)
[10:08] <cbx33> you done good ogra my man
[10:08] <ogra> sbalneav, i'd like to look into the lp_server and the mknbi issues ... and like to test the floppy stuff with you the next days
[10:09] <ogra> hesy rodarvus
[10:09] <ogra> *hey too
[10:09] <RichEd> ogra: lets hope they "release" your laptop from the baggage hold for the hack-fest
[10:09] <ogra> as long as i get it back its all fine ... i'll do a complete /home backup tonight before i go to bed
[10:09] <sbalneav> ogra: I'm here sitting in LTSP headquarters right now :)
[10:09] <cbx33> RichEd, don't even joke
[10:09] <ogra> sbalneav, me too in 24h ;)
[10:10] <sbalneav> I should apply for Edubuntu status one of these days :)
[10:10] <pygi> sbalneav, you do understand we have to talk about iscsi, right? :)
[10:10] <ogra> sbalneav, you already applied for edubuntu-member if i saw that right
[10:10] <sbalneav> I've volunteered with HedgeMage to help bring the LTSP section of the Handbook up to date.
[10:10] <cbx33> sbalneav, nice ;)
[10:11] <highvoltage> he just didn't add his name to EdubuntuMeetingAgnda yet
[10:11] <LaserJock> tsk tsk
[10:11] <ogra> so its just a matter of making a wikipage and adding your contributions ... then the next EC meeting can approve you
[10:11] <rodarvus> hi there
[10:11] <sbalneav> Did I?  I can't remember.
[10:11] <highvoltage> hi rodarvus
[10:11] <sbalneav> pygi: We'll have a chance over the next few days.  Ogra will be here with me, we can be in irc and chat.
[10:11] <ogra> sbalneav, and be sure, you have my vote already ;)
[10:11] <cbx33> If I could vote I would
[10:11] <LaserJock> ogra: did you fix scp deps so edubuntu-desktop doesn't install ltsp-server? :-)
[10:12] <ogra> sbalneav, i have to cncentrate on edgy ... lets rather see that pygi comes to mountain view ;)
[10:12] <sbalneav> Ah, good plan.
[10:12] <RichEd> I will chat to highvoltage tomorrow.
[10:12] <ogra> RichEd, a wikipage that lists your contributions
[10:12] <ogra> thast about all
[10:12] <RichEd> okay
[10:12] <cbx33> what about the 3 liner?
[10:13] <cbx33> ;)
[10:13] <ogra> ok, thats all from my tech side, i feel pretty exhausted but happy ... i didnt belive in knot 3 anymore as i said ...
[10:13] <LaserJock> \o/ for Knot 3
[10:14] <cbx33> ;)
[10:14] <ogra> if someone else likes to lead the rest of the meeting i could do the wikipage for known issues ... in fact i'll just add it to the testing page
[10:14] <cbx33> ogra, well done dude
[10:14] <highvoltage> \/
[10:14] <sbalneav> Hey, am I still supposed to get the test pattern on bootup?  I keep seeing updates to usplash-artwork, but nothing ever changes?
[10:14] <RichEd> as usual, a round of applause for Oliver and his untiring dedication.
[10:14] <highvoltage> eek, where's my head
[10:14] <LaserJock> highvoltage: you were so excited you lost it
[10:15] <ogra> sbalneav, edubuntu-artwork -35 should fix that
[10:15] <LaserJock> \o/
[10:15] <LaserJock>  /\
[10:15] <cbx33> hehe
[10:15] <highvoltage> hiehie
[10:15] <sharkybaby> nice man, man hehe
[10:16] <cbx33> Whos taking the lead then?
[10:16] <cbx33> heheh
[10:16] <sbalneav> :D\-<
[10:16] <sbalneav> :D|-<
[10:16] <sbalneav> :D/-<
[10:16] <RichEd> just loading the agenda
[10:17] <sharkybaby> heheh
[10:17] <cbx33> I'm sensing excitement in the air
[10:17] <cbx33> oh, for those of you who don;t know ;) - SCP is now in main
[10:17] <highvoltage> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuMeetingAgenda#preview
[10:17] <highvoltage> documentation next?
[10:17] <highvoltage> cbx33: good job!
[10:17] <RichEd> thanks ... wiki is slow for me tonight
[10:18] <LaserJock> cbx33: and is making me not update edubuntu-desktop ;/
[10:18] <highvoltage> LaserJock: and dynamic menu's is in universe now, right?
[10:18] <RichEd> -- documentation ---
[10:18] <cbx33> sorry LaserJock
[10:18] <LaserJock> highvoltage: it's in NEW and Keybuck said he is working on NEW today
[10:18] <RichEd> who's got some doc news ?
[10:18] <cbx33> I'll be writing some docs for SCP and pessulus
[10:19] <highvoltage> LaserJock: great
[10:19] <cbx33> for the handbook
[10:19] <pips1_> cbx33: wow, congrats
[10:19] <cbx33> ty
[10:19] <highvoltage> cbx33: I think you should help pips1_ get it on the website soon, so that we can point users there when the software is released
[10:19] <rodarvus> LaserJock, in theory, tomorrow is the ubuntu-archive day for keybuk
[10:19] <cbx33> highvoltage, yeh that's cool
[10:19] <cbx33> my account shuiod still be active
[10:20] <pips1_> yep
[10:20] <LaserJock> rodarvus: he said he was doing it, *shrug*
[10:20] <rodarvus> LaserJock, yeah, thats cool :)
[10:21] <rodarvus> its just that Keybuk and Kamion decided to have a specific day they would give *more* attention to ubuntu-archive issues (thursday and friday, I think)
[10:21] <rodarvus> but they are free to do it on any other time, obviously :)
[10:22] <RichEd> I had a documenation issue raised this past week ... In a discussion with an admin of an icafe using Edubuntu for his client workstations using LTSP. Would it make sense to produce a Handbook for that specific enviroment as well as a school one, or is the doc general enough for both ?
[10:23] <pygi> RichEd, we can adapt that use case for handbook perhaps, as one topic
[10:23] <RichEd> highvoltage: comments ? you know both environments well ?
[10:23] <cbx33> RichEd, personally I think the general should be sufficient
[10:23] <cbx33> pygi, good idea
[10:23] <RichEd> Put it this way, I was going to volunteer him to make the suggested changed for us :)
[10:23] <cbx33> you could have a short section on some case studies
[10:23] <highvoltage> RichEd: honestly, I don't know. there would be a lot of overlap
[10:24] <RichEd> *changes
[10:24] <RichEd> Perhaps an appendix for specific use cases ? Just thinking aloud.
[10:24] <highvoltage> on the other side, running an internet cafe is very much different than running a lba t a school, so defferent cookbooks from that perspective sounds feasible
[10:24] <cbx33> highvoltage, do you still have access to the website?
[10:24] <highvoltage> cbx33: yep
[10:24] <cbx33> can you change my password
[10:24] <cbx33> ;)
[10:24] <cbx33> pm me?
[10:25] <highvoltage> cbx33: ok
[10:25] <RichEd> Not an urgent issue, but it will come up later when we dig more into the Education Solution Space ... I'll file it away until then.
[10:25] <pips1_> who is doing documentation from the present ppl?
[10:25] <highvoltage> RichEd: in Ubuntu/Edubuntu, those descisions are usually made by the people who are actually going to do the documentation
[10:25] <cbx33> RichEd, is this a good place to come up with what I was talking to you about the other day....
[10:25] <cbx33> project tracking
[10:26] <RichEd> Okay cbx33 : jump in ...
[10:26] <cbx33> I was wondering guys
[10:26] <highvoltage> RichEd: so I think your options are (1) decide how it needs to be done and lead it, or (2) put it out there and let a group form that wil do the work, and decide how they want to do it
[10:26] <cbx33> generally we seem to be pretty good in knowing what's happening where
[10:26] <RichEd> highvoltage: I'll bring it up as an example later, and then move it to the next Handbook Meeting.
[10:26] <highvoltage> yeah, would be cool i jono was here
[10:27] <highvoltage> *if
[10:27] <cbx33> but what are peoples opinions on introducing some kind of web based project management system, that is a little more finer grained than LP
[10:27] <RichEd> (you'll see where it fits in when we get to solution views)
[10:27] <cbx33> to allow creating of projects and tasks inside those projets, and assigning those takss to people
[10:27] <highvoltage> ok
[10:27] <cbx33> I've been suing it at work for organising myself and my technician
[10:28] <pips1_> cbx33: project management tools aren't very popular with volunteers, generally...
[10:28] <cbx33> and it seems to have doubled my productivity
[10:28] <cbx33> it was merely a suggestion
[10:28] <cbx33> ;)
[10:29] <LaserJock> heh, if it worked I'd volunteer to use it ;-)
[10:29] <RichEd> cbx33: perhaps it makes sense to try it out on a project you are involved in, where other involved people are agreed. If they see benefit, it will be accepted. If not htye will spit it out ?
[10:29] <RichEd> *they
[10:29] <cbx33> RichEd, sure
[10:29] <cbx33> LaserJock, gisomount v2?
[10:29] <cbx33> ;)
[10:30] <RichEd> cbx33: Perhaps you and will and I can use it on the education advocacy exercise ?
[10:30] <cbx33> RichEd, a great suggestion
[10:30] <rodarvus> cbx33, such a tool could work, but don't expect volunteers to maintain it up to date
[10:30] <cbx33> I'll set it up soon
[10:30] <cbx33> rodarvus, ok
[10:30] <rodarvus> in other words, someone would need to babysit this tool a lot
[10:30] <LaserJock> I don't really get what "it" is
[10:30] <pips1_> cbx33, I don't think it's a bad idea... were you thinking about some sort of issue tracker only, or also calendaring...?
[10:30] <cbx33> LaserJock, google for dotproject
[10:30] <RichEd> Agreed then ... make it available, not compulsory. See if it gains acceptance ?
[10:31] <rodarvus> cbx33, unless you have any other idea, I suggest you to take a look at trac and dotproject
[10:31] <cbx33> rodarvus, i suggested dotproject
[10:31] <rodarvus> dotproject might be too heavyweight, though
[10:31] <cbx33> it rawks
[10:31] <cbx33> you think?
[10:31] <rodarvus> for volunteer work, yes
[10:31] <RichEd> Even if the tool gets too heavy, some of the principles may stick and be adopted into wiki processes.
[10:31] <cbx33> but you can disable modules
[10:32] <rodarvus> RichEd, right, indeed
[10:32] <RichEd> So it may be a useful exercise to evaluate on a small and voluntary scale.
[10:32] <rodarvus> but again, I think this is an excellent initiative
[10:32] <cbx33> I'll setup a dotproject
[10:32] <rodarvus> cbx33, go for it, I believe it can be great for edubuntu
[10:32] <cbx33> ;)
[10:32] <LaserJock> yeah, for an LP project I've been working on we've needed something like this
[10:33] <RichEd> As a final coment, we may soon see more than just #edubuntu as a support channel for education, some differentiation may haqppen soon.
[10:33] <cbx33> RichEd, ?
[10:33] <cbx33> care to elaborate?
[10:33] <RichEd> And as we split into channels, we may need more tracking to keep informed and stay on top of things.
[10:33] <rodarvus> #edubuntu-devel and #edubuntu ?
[10:33] <cbx33> RichEd, yes true
[10:34] <RichEd> I'll bring it up in solution spaces later, but along the lines of #ubuntu-education ... and not just #edubuntu (product)
[10:34] <LaserJock> yeah
[10:34] <cbx33> RichEd, sounds sensible
[10:35] <LaserJock> I hate it when people come on #edubuntu looking for educational support, etc.
[10:35] <cbx33> we'd keep devel in #edubuntu?
[10:35] <LaserJock> because I don't have really anything to offer
[10:35] <RichEd> More user spaces, *not* trying to split the dev community here :)
[10:35] <highvoltage> LaserJock: you do?
[10:35] <highvoltage> ah, i see
[10:35] <LaserJock> yeah, sorry, I don't hate *them*, I hate that I can't help them
[10:35] <rodarvus> right
[10:35] <cbx33> LaserJock, that's not true
[10:35] <cbx33> you're a great help
[10:36] <RichEd> Are we done in documentation, because then we can move into artwork, and then tackle the solution space stuff.
[10:36] <cbx33> RichEd, shoot
[10:36] <highvoltage> LaserJock: what happened with k12ltsp, is that teachers started giving each other edu-support on the lists, that works quite cool
[10:36] <RichEd> highvoltage: spot on !
[10:36] <LaserJock> highvoltage: that's where #edubuntu-education would be cool
[10:36] <RichEd> LaserJock: it's about a home for where each person is comfortable ... some users are as afraid of you as you are of them :)
[10:37] <sbalneav> Gotta go, I'll be on later tonight.
[10:37] <RichEd> --- art work ---
[10:37] <sbalneav> see you tomorrow ogra
[10:37] <cbx33> RichEd, I wonder if soon we should tackle a non-IRC based support solution too
[10:37] <RichEd> all in the solutiopn space topic cbx33 :)
[10:37] <cbx33> nice
[10:37] <pips1_> cbx33: non-IRC and non-Mailing list, you mean?
[10:38] <cbx33> we'll wait till alter pips1_
[10:38] <pips1_> yep
[10:38] <highvoltage> pips1_: heh, I see where you're going :)
[10:38] <pips1_> hehe
[10:38] <RichEd> --- art work --- going twice ?
[10:38] <cbx33> well
[10:38] <pips1_> hey, not so quick!
[10:38] <cbx33> the new artowrk I think is in knot3
[10:39] <cbx33> the new usplash definitely is
[10:39] <cbx33> though there is a bug fix for it which didn't get in
[10:40] <pips1_> cbx33: is there an online preview for the impatient? :)
[10:40] <cbx33> AliasVegas, would really like some feedback
[10:41] <pips1_> I'm too busy with other things to install knot3 right now... :/
[10:41] <pips1_> cbx33: ?
[10:41] <ogra> cbx33, it works ... there is a bug in usplash that sets it to 640x480 (fro which we ship no theme)
[10:43] <cbx33> I will put it all up online as soon as I get a chance
[10:43] <rodarvus> cbx33, didn't you applied for ubuntu-devel yet?
[10:43] <rodarvus> I kind of expected to see you on yesterdays meeting
[10:44] <cbx33> rodarvus, I will do next time
[10:44] <ogra> yeah, he missed
[10:44] <cbx33> I didn 't have time to prepare
[10:44] <LaserJock> edubuntu-artwork 0.1.0-35 hit my edgy-changes mailbox :-)
[10:44] <rodarvus> right, don't miss it next time ;)
[10:44] <cbx33> sorry rodarvus
[10:44] <rodarvus> we can always use more hands, development wise!
[10:44] <highvoltage> whohoo!
[10:45] <rodarvus> cbx33, no need to be sorry too ;)
[10:45] <cbx33> rodarvus, I'm there trust me....as long as I have some fans
[10:45] <cbx33> otherwise I'll fall flat on my development face ;)
[10:45] <rodarvus> cbx33, make sure you read DeveloperResources on wiki thoroughly
[10:45] <cbx33> I will
[10:46] <LaserJock> hopefully I'll make it too
[10:46] <rodarvus> LaserJock, for core-dev?
[10:46] <rodarvus> ahn
[10:46] <rodarvus> I thought you wanted to apply for core-dev
[10:46] <LaserJock> no, to support cbx33
[10:46] <LaserJock> oh, I'll get there
[10:46] <LaserJock> not ready yet
[10:47] <rodarvus> hopefully both of you will get to core-dev in a few months :)
[10:47] <cbx33> rodarvus, you think?
[10:47] <cbx33> wow cool
[10:47] <ogra> rodarvus, we'll get him there ;) i did a sponsored main upload today :)
[10:47] <rodarvus> its a lot more responsability involved, but really important for us to have more developers involved in core dev
[10:47] <rodarvus> cbx33, yeah, why not
[10:48] <cbx33> LaserJock, maybe we should try to get gisomount in main
[10:48] <cbx33> we're getting off topic
[10:48] <cbx33> ;)
[10:48] <rodarvus> we haven't much edubuntu specific packaging for main currently (and it is basically handled by ogra)
[10:48] <rodarvus> but that will increase (a whole lot) in the next few months
[10:48] <LaserJock> because?
[10:48] <rodarvus> OLPC
[10:48] <ogra> and on which CD should that fit ?
[10:48] <cbx33> ahhh
[10:48] <ogra> ah, ok, i suppose that small
[10:48] <ogra> :)
[10:48] <rodarvus> ogra: not for edubuntu cd ;)
[10:49] <rodarvus> don't worry!
[10:49] <cbx33> ogra, didn;t you hear, we're revising the CD standard size
[10:49] <ogra> will we get an edubuntu-olpc CD ?
[10:49] <cbx33> just for edubuntu
[10:49] <rodarvus> more like a disk image for OLPC and others interested
[10:49] <rodarvus> with preinstalled stuff
[10:50] <LaserJock> I thought Mark was springing for getting every school in the world a DVD rom
[10:50] <rodarvus> this overlaps some with what RichEd was mentioning on thinking about educational content, not specific to edubuntu
[10:51] <RichEd> LaserJock: We can give them DVDs but can they read them ?
[10:51] <cbx33> RichEd, I think he meant drive
[10:51] <LaserJock> mhm
[10:51] <LaserJock> hence the ;-)
[10:52] <RichEd> We still have probably a 80:20 CD:DVD capability in workstations across the target sector.
[10:52] <RichEd> I preferred the track that started in the last few weeks about a base CD and add-on packs.
[10:52] <LaserJock> me too
[10:52] <pips1_> THE target sector? are you talking about schools worldwide?
[10:52] <cbx33> me too
[10:52] <highvoltage> although with ubuntu you just need a dvd drive in one pc in an organisation :)
[10:53] <cbx33> RichEd, but as we also said
[10:53] <cbx33> what is the point of an addon pack
[10:53] <highvoltage> even with full machines you could just do a network install :)
[10:53] <cbx33> just make a few meta pacakges
[10:53] <RichEd> Schools, end-users, refurb charity cases.
[10:53] <cbx33> chemistry-meta pack
[10:53] <LaserJock> cbx33: well, having an .iso for the meta packs is a good idea
[10:53] <cbx33> i suppose
[10:53] <RichEd> cbx33: not prescribing a solution, just a concept. how we solve it is not significant.
[10:53] <LaserJock> cbx33: have you seen my LP page recently, tw :-)
[10:53] <LaserJock> s/tw/btw/
[10:54] <cbx33> just checking
[10:54] <RichEd> Could we see edubuntu as an add-on pack to a base ubuntu CD ?
[10:55] <cbx33> HAHAH LaserJock ROFLPMP
[10:55] <rodarvus> I think ogra is afk, and he can say it better
[10:55] <LaserJock> RichEd: depends on the target I think
[10:55] <RichEd> Just for debate at some point ... not to stir the pot too much, but it could make a lot of things simpler in the long term.
[10:55] <rodarvus> RichEd, first problem would be losing our brand recognition we have right now
[10:56] <rodarvus> we would lose automatic installation
[10:56] <RichEd> Especially the support of base functionality being directed towards ubuntu where it belongs.
[10:56] <rodarvus> but OTOH, we could easily make a GUI installer for Edubuntu, which can be run after the machine has been installed
[10:56] <rodarvus> *and* as an addon cd, during installation
[10:56] <RichEd> It is just a long term thought.
[10:56] <rodarvus> sure
[10:57] <rodarvus> a valuable thought, actually
[10:57] <RichEd> It could still come out as a Ubuntu Base CD with Edubuntu Base on the same CD ...
[10:57] <rodarvus> would make an immense amount of space available for us
[10:57] <RichEd> With the pocess: installing ubuntu ..... done
[10:57] <RichEd> Installing Edubuntu Add-On layer ...
[10:57] <RichEd> All in one seamless process.
[10:57] <pips1_> I like the idea
[10:58] <rodarvus> we could then make it possible for people to install Edubuntu standard, Edubuntu Light, "KEdubuntu", etc... all above Ubuntu
[10:58] <RichEd> It would make it easier for understanding ... not only support, but what is edubuntu ?
[10:58] <LaserJock> yeah, it's hard because Edubuntu really has many target audiences, IMO with different needs
[10:58] <RichEd> What is the difference between Ubuntu / Edubuntu and Kubuntu ?
[10:59] <LaserJock> what gets installed by default mostly
[10:59] <rodarvus> installer is (a little) different for all of them
[10:59] <cbx33> rodarvus, indeed
[10:59] <LaserJock> although Edubuntu has more differences, to me, thank Kubuntu
[10:59] <RichEd> Yep. We'll get onto that in the solution space topic soon, but tryng to be all things to all people on one CD will hit the wall soon.
[10:59] <rodarvus> UI (and configuration tools) is different
[10:59] <cbx33> I'm going to have to go soon guys
[10:59] <rodarvus> but the basic framework is the same for all
[10:59] <cbx33> :(
[11:00] <RichEd> okay ... that's planted the seeds ... no need to debate it all now.
[11:00] <rodarvus> RichEd, it hit the wall on Edgy already, to be sincere
[11:00] <rodarvus> we are dropping a lot of stuff which is present on Ubuntu already
[11:00] <pips1_> rodarvus: please expand
[11:00] <pips1_> ah
[11:00] <rodarvus> pips1_, we have just dropped mono, beagle, tomboy and f-spot from edubuntu
[11:00] <cbx33> the headers are going
[11:00] <rodarvus> because we needed to make space for other stuff
[11:01] <cbx33> ogra, said gcc is gone - but it will be back
[11:01] <RichEd> * Can I do the solution space stuff now so that cbx33 can get the general idea before he ducks off ? *
[11:01] <rodarvus> also probably the headers, gcc, make, basic tools for building kernel modules, etc
[11:01] <cbx33> thanks RichEd
[11:01] <pips1_> ic
[11:01] <RichEd> --- management and community ---
[11:01] <rodarvus> we will likely need to drop (more) translations too in the future
[11:02] <RichEd> Some background to some really productive thinking and debate over the past week, both within #edubuntu community, as well as with Jono, and Matt Nazum.
[11:02] <RichEd> As you all are probably tired of hearing now (but I need to repeat it):
[11:02] <RichEd> I'm the 1st line contact for all Education enquries coming into Canonical.
[11:02] <RichEd> So that encompasses Ubuntu and all its variants, and enquires from users, partners, OEMs, and quite a wide range of people, with a wide requirements scope within the Education Sector.
[11:03] <RichEd> Inside #edubuntu we've been talking about providing an end-user front end into the web sites, or a portal for education users ....
[11:03] <RichEd> ... and brought Jono and Matt Nazm into the debate to find out how and where to host this.
[11:03] <RichEd> Which is where Matt came in with the idea of Solution Spaces.
[11:04] <RichEd> He will be creating a new structure off the Ubuntu Web Site:
[11:04] <RichEd> www.ubuntu.com/solutions/education
[11:04] <RichEd> www.ubuntu.com/solutions/business
[11:04] <RichEd> etc.
[11:05] <RichEd> With the idea being to provide a consolidated place for all information around the needs of a target sector.
[11:05] <RichEd> Now this works every well for us, because Eduaction and Ubuntu is not just Edubuntu.
[11:05] <RichEd> Let me grab an example:
[11:05] <RichEd> In a large scale education deployment the users and administrators will not rely entirely on Edubuntu for all areas of the solution.
[11:05] <RichEd>     *
[11:05] <RichEd>       The Classroom Desktop will usually be an Edubuntu install
[11:05] <RichEd>     *
[11:05] <RichEd>       The Classroom Server will usually be an Edubuntu install, LTSP or otherwise
[11:06] <RichEd> But Back End Support Services for the classroom will probably use an Ubuntu install:
[11:06] <RichEd>     *
[11:06] <RichEd>       Mail Servers
[11:06] <RichEd>     *
[11:06] <RichEd>       Web Servers
[11:06] <RichEd>     *
[11:06] <RichEd>       Proxy / Cache / Content Filtering
[11:06] <RichEd>     *
[11:06] <RichEd>       Firewalling
[11:06] <RichEd> ---
[11:06] <RichEd> So the entire solution is not really just an #edubuntu channel affair.
[11:07] <RichEd> #edubuntu is primarily around a product.
[11:07] <RichEd> and so is www.edubuntu.org and wiki.edubuntu.org
[11:07] <RichEd> but the product is not the solution.
[11:07] <RichEd> Am I making sense so far ... comments ?
[11:07] <pips1_> it makes sense to me
[11:08] <LaserJock> yes, although I'm not sure how the non-Edubuntu stuff would work
[11:08] <LaserJock> is that primarily a Canonical thing?
[11:09] <pips1_> the only comment I can offer so far is that we should think carefully about what we offer and how we call it (e.g. I don't like the term "solutions")
[11:09] <RichEd> It's a reality that is emerging from Matt really ... he is looking at al of the web site areas, and seeing some confusion.
[11:09] <LaserJock> mhm
[11:10] <RichEd> I must admit that it has been a bit confusing for me, and I work here !
[11:10] <RichEd> We have a great core of people in #edubuntu, and we will not touch the dev team or channel or any of the existing processes.
[11:10] <RichEd> So there is nothing to fear for our community here ... promise
[11:10] <LaserJock> is there anything that *would* need to be changed in Edubuntu?
[11:11] <RichEd> Nope. Nothing I can see at all LaserJock.
[11:11] <pips1_> hmm
[11:11] <cbx33> I agree about the websites
[11:11] <cbx33> and the confusing nature
[11:11] <RichEd> Let me go back to the channel comment I made earlier, if we had a channel #ubuntu-education, it could move some of the enquires here to a more apropriate area.
[11:12] <LaserJock> I see a lot of "There is Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Edubuntu, Xubuntu. I have no idea which one to install"
[11:12] <pips1_> I think Edubuntu *does* need some changes as a product. E.g. I really like the idea with the modularity (add-on concept)
[11:12] <RichEd> LaserJock: Good place for me to dig in ... let me expand on that.
[11:12] <cbx33> RichEd, is this the time to bring up my support thingy
[11:13] <RichEd> cbx33: give me few more seconds :
[11:13] <cbx33> ok
[11:13] <RichEd> We are talking *mainly* about guidance pages, that are information and pointers.
[11:14] <RichEd> i.e. we will not reinvent anything, just provide a clear "how all the components fit together" front end
[11:14] <RichEd> and when the person reads Edubuntu ... the link will go straight to the existing web pages
[11:15] <RichEd> The docs, the wiki, the help site will all remain as is. and you guys will continue with the great job in your own style that you are used to.
[11:16] <RichEd> We will just have some user oriented fulff pages: If you are a  school lab admin you may want to read this  _ _ _  and this _ _ _  and install that.
[11:16] <RichEd> What will change is the need for us to create an end user community, discussing their daily education problems with each other.
[11:17] <cbx33> RichEd, totally !
[11:17] <RichEd> Not technical issues, more teacher issues.
[11:17] <RichEd> Hey I found great content on Physics here !
[11:17] <RichEd> This LAMS stuff really works well for UK Biology syllabus Grades 4-5
[11:18] <RichEd> That sort of stuff. Recommending school admin tools etc.
[11:18] <LaserJock> yeah
[11:18] <RichEd> I won't go into a whole lot of detail now, but will point you to here instead:
[11:18] <RichEd> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/education
[11:19] <LaserJock> well, the best analogy I've got (in my limited experience) is computer sellers like HP and Dell
[11:19] <LaserJock> when you go to there sites the split it up into Home, Business, and Education
[11:19] <RichEd> That's the outline of the process we are starting .. and at the moment it is Me, pips1_ , and cbx33 who are thrashing it out.
[11:19] <LaserJock> you go to which area you belong to and the have customs content for you're area
[11:20] <RichEd> * IMPORTANT NOTE* this will be done by consensus and I am not here as a prescriptive baddie !
[11:20] <LaserJock> aww shucks
[11:20] <pips1_> hehe
[11:20] <RichEd> I'll tell you what I think the Education Sector needs, and we can debate the solution.
[11:20] <RichEd> I am not here to rock anyone's boat ...
[11:21] <LaserJock> and help me with some darn menus ;-)
[11:21] <cbx33> LaserJock, hehe
[11:21] <RichEd> pips1_: I've noted your comment, and we can talk about that word.
[11:21] <LaserJock> RichEd: don't worry about not rocking the boat too much, sometimes that's exactly what is needed
[11:21] <pips1_> oki :)
[11:22] <LaserJock> RichEd: we are all agreeable people, I think, and we are out to do the best for our users as we can
[11:22] <RichEd> Let me leave you with one last quote from that page I posted up .. the mission / mandate:
[11:22] <pips1_> LaserJock yeah, let's rock that boat! :-)
[11:22] <RichEd> Education Programme Mission
[11:22] <RichEd> The Education Programme supports Canonical's mission to realise the potential of free software in the lives of individuals and organisations by providing a specific focus on Education markets.
[11:22] <RichEd> In particular, the Education Programme strives to:
[11:22] <RichEd>     *
[11:22] <RichEd>       Position Ubuntu and its variants as the dominant Linux distribution in the Education Sector
[11:22] <RichEd>     *
[11:22] <RichEd>       Stimulate the growth of open source software, communities and skills in the Education Sector    *
[11:22] <RichEd>       Support Canonical and Ubuntu in order to ensure the Education Programme is Sustainable
[11:23] <RichEd> ---
[11:23] <LaserJock>  \o/
[11:23] <LaserJock>   |
[11:23] <LaserJock>  /\
[11:23] <RichEd> I don't think we can do all of that unless we create a friendly home for a vibrant end user community ... where they trust us ... and offer comments.
[11:23] <cbx33> RichEd, you rock ;)
[11:23] <pips1_> I love the second mandate and I totally see the point of the first and third
[11:24] <LaserJock> think AliasVegas will let me do some artwork for Edgy+1? ;-)
[11:24] <cbx33> I'm sure she'd love to have a hand
[11:24] <cbx33> we were ver very pushed this time
[11:24] <LaserJock> I can do pom poms too
[11:24] <RichEd> So that is my goal. If we can be the developer community that makes Education people understand FOSS and not be afraid ... we will be doing the world a service.
[11:25] <LaserJock> +1
[11:25] <pips1_> ++
[11:25] <RichEd> I'd like to have a landing page with the words "Don't Panic" in big friendly letters
[11:25] <LaserJock> :-)
[11:25] <RichEd> Not in reality, but in spirit :)
[11:25] <RichEd> ---
[11:26] <RichEd> That's me done. I'll update that page 2 or 3 times before Friday, and then 2 /3 times a week.
[11:26] <pips1_> I want a landing page that says "Education rocks!"
[11:26] <pips1_> :)
[11:27] <RichEd> As a matter of interest, we have identified over 50 categories of people who's lives touch on Ubuntu Education.
[11:27] <LaserJock> "Edubuntu the Educational FLOSS - It gets the junk out"
[11:27] <pips1_> nice
[11:28] <pips1_> You have been thinking about that one, ey?
[11:28] <LaserJock> hm?
[11:28] <pips1_> :-D
[11:28] <RichEd> cbx33: you had something to introduce earlier ?
[11:29] <cbx33> I was going to ask about the live help thingy
[11:29] <RichEd> expand on that ?
[11:29] <cbx33> as a support item that is non IRC non ML
[11:29] <cbx33> and fairly instantaneous
[11:30] <pips1_> LaserJock we do a tv style FLOSS ad, with sabdfl flossing his teeth and your slogan at the end... :-)
[11:30] <LaserJock> haha
[11:31] <cbx33> www.craftysyntax.com
[11:31] <cbx33> take a look at that and see what your opinions are
[11:31] <RichEd> cbx33: yes ... go on ... sounds exciting .. does it involve cloning and time travel on your behalf ?
[11:31] <cbx33> I would be very excited to hear peoples input here
[11:32] <cbx33> I realise that it would in some ways increase commitment for people involved
[11:32] <RichEd> cbx33: I'll take a proper look tomorrow ... but let me give you some insight on the "support resource issue" ...
[11:32] <LaserJock> cbx33: excellent, where would we get the people?
[11:33] <cbx33> but I think that if we are goign to grow in ways as mentioned we need to have more support options vaibale
[11:33] <cbx33> LaserJock, that is the only issue
[11:33] <cbx33> but I believe it woudn't hurt to run a trial
[11:33] <LaserJock> cbx33: seems to me that would be a Canonical or Canonical-like thing
[11:33] <RichEd> a real life anectdote from the life of JaneW ... some of you know who she is ;)
[11:33] <cbx33> not necessarily
[11:34] <cbx33> infact people closer to the community would be better....
[11:34] <cbx33> just being able to say to people who are NonIRC NONML....this is a question for the ML
[11:34] <cbx33> we could be losing potential users because of their lack of understandin of IRC/ML
[11:34] <LaserJock> cbx33: but you will have issues with getting people and having quality people
[11:34] <cbx33> LaserJock, I know that
[11:34] <cbx33> ther ewould have to be a manager who knows the people involed
[11:35] <cbx33> much like we have for core-dev/devel
[11:35] <LaserJock> but that is something that Ubuntu in general has wanted to do
[11:35] <cbx33> if you get my meaning
[11:35] <cbx33> really?
[11:35] <LaserJock> sure
[11:35] <cbx33> excellent
[11:35] <RichEd> Can I drop in my example ?
[11:35] <cbx33> sure
[11:35] <cbx33> sorry RichEd
[11:35] <RichEd> When she was pregnant and spawning and raising two youg kids, she belonged to a Parenting Forum ... web based, big friendly pink letters.
[11:35] <cbx33> got carried away
[11:36] <RichEd> There was a huge amount of traffic, of mothers helping mothers with all sorts of issues.
[11:36] <cbx33> uh huh
[11:36] <RichEd> Occasionally a qualified person would duck thier head in to set the record straight, but 90 % of the traffic was community
[11:36] <RichEd> I believe if we create the right home,w e can get the same sort of action.
[11:37] <RichEd> We can use sticky posts at the top of significant forum threads.
[11:37] <LaserJock> I do too, I guess the question is how to do it and what medium to use
[11:37] <cbx33> LaserJock, exactly
[11:38] <RichEd> But let the people help each other. K12LTSP has around 50 emails a day on their list.
[11:38] <RichEd> We have 50 a month.
[11:38] <RichEd> Their front end user web site has big ugly simple fonts.
[11:38] <LaserJock> the solutions website idea + a forum would probably be really cool
[11:38] <cbx33> hmmm
[11:38] <cbx33> This is just a personal thing....
[11:38] <RichEd> We have neat structure, with perhaps too much logic for the end user.
[11:38] <cbx33> but I steer clear of forums and ML's if possible
[11:39] <cbx33> because the response is too slow
[11:39] <cbx33> or it is seen to be too slow
[11:39] <cbx33> but I can see what you are saying
[11:39] <RichEd> pips1_ is comfortable woth drupal
[11:39] <LaserJock> hmm, I go the opposite :-)
[11:39] <LaserJock> I find real-time support too rushed
[11:39] <RichEd> pips1_ is comfortable with drupal I mean, so we will play with this for a bit
[11:39] <cbx33> heheh
[11:39] <pips1_> cbx33 we know you are on speed, dude ;-)
[11:39] <cbx33> hehehe
[11:40] <cbx33> I guess it's the nature of my job
[11:40] <cbx33> I have 30-40 support requests a day
[11:40] <RichEd> How is not important this week. I wanted to introduce what & why.
[11:40] <cbx33> sorry RichEd
[11:40] <RichEd> We can do some how against a test framework soon.
[11:40] <LaserJock> hmm, I guess the basic idea here
[11:40] <cbx33> didn't meant to disreupt the meeting
[11:41] <LaserJock> is that we would like to go beyond just "product production"
[11:41] <cbx33> nn guys
[11:41] <LaserJock> into "open-source solution center" or somethinge like that
[11:41] <cbx33> sorry :(
[11:41] <LaserJock> cya cbx33
[11:41] <RichEd> no problem cbx33
[11:41] <pips1_> cu cbx33
[11:42] <RichEd> I'm ready to wrap ... 14 minute to pumpkin time my side ...
[11:42] <RichEd> Anyone with any pressing issues left over ?
[11:42] <cbx33> oh
[11:42] <RichEd> You can mail me with complaints and suggestions :)
[11:42] <cbx33> I did have....hang on what was it
[11:42] <sharkybaby> im off now 2 c ya all
[11:42] <cbx33> nope gone
[11:42] <LaserJock> cya sharkybaby, make sure to keep track of Pete
[11:43] <sharkybaby> yep will do
[11:43] <LaserJock> he's too wild for us
[11:43] <LaserJock> ;-)
[11:43] <cbx33> OI
[11:43] <cbx33> he's doing work exp with me
[11:43] <sharkybaby> :)
[11:43] <cbx33> at the school
[11:43] <cbx33> he's doing a damn good job
[11:43] <cbx33> oooh
[11:43] <cbx33> yes I have one more thing
[11:43] <cbx33> in the kind of community thing
[11:43] <cbx33> I have been approached by the ICT technical panel in the city I work in
[11:44] <cbx33> to stand for Chairman
[11:44] <cbx33> so I thought I'd do it....
[11:44] <cbx33> ;)
[11:44] <cbx33> it could give me an opportunity to dispell common OSS myths to a larger audience
[11:44] <sharkybaby> :)
[11:45] <cbx33> also....I ran my first teaching session today
[11:45] <cbx33> teaching kids about ubuntu/edubuntu
[11:45] <cbx33> and open source
[11:45] <cbx33> went really really well
[11:45] <LaserJock> myths? surely there aren't any myths about Linux?
[11:45] <cbx33> now everyone seems to have gone to sleep
[11:45] <sharkybaby> yeh was pritty gd id say just they all chat 2 much lol
[11:45] <cbx33> I'll draw with a big marker pen on their faces....and leave ;)
[11:45] <RichEd> excellent cbx33 : corrupting the youth ... I like it !
[11:46] <cbx33> nn guys
[11:46] <sharkybaby> nn
[11:47] <RichEd> thanks guys ... that's a wrap
[11:47] <RichEd> nice discussion.
[11:48] <RichEd> goodnight to all
[11:48] <pips1_> yes
[11:48] <pips1_> goodnight !
[11:48] <RichEd> thanks pips1_ :)
[11:48] <pips1_> I think you did well today :)
[11:51] <RichEd> Thanks ... I think we sowed some good seeds.
[11:51] <pips1_> :)
[11:51] <RichEd> A bit different ... but nothing too scary ...
[11:52] <pips1_> i don't think anyone here is easily scared
[11:52] <RichEd> Now I must show some good progress in 1 week on that page, and we must bring others into the loop with comments.
[11:52] <pips1_> agreed !
[11:52] <pips1_> especially the part about getting other into the loop!
[11:52] <RichEd> I'll add a section to the page specifically calling for comments, live, on the page itself. Public forum for debaee.
[11:53] <RichEd> * debate.
[11:53] <RichEd> An open and transparent process.
[11:53] <pips1_> way to go
[11:53] <RichEd> :)
[11:54] <RichEd> And a short way to go to my bed. It's now almost tomorrow.
[11:54] <RichEd> Goodnight ... speak to you soon.
[11:54] <pips1_> hehe yeah, it's late
[11:54] <pips1_> have a good sleep, cu soon


[02:56] <Prabakaran> Hi Team,
[02:59] <Prabakaran> My new charm is not getting reflected in the review queue. It has been more than a week even though my charm is not reflecting under review queue. Below are the details. Branch : https://code.launchpad.net/~ibmcharmers/charms/trusty/ibm-platform-rtm/trunk    Bug Link is : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ibmcharms/+bug/1510216
[02:59] <mup> Bug #1510216: New Charm: IBM Platform RTM <IBM Charms:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1510216>
[03:00] <Prabakaran> Hi Mup Pet, Please advise on this.
[11:41] <ionutbalutoiu> Hey! Does somebody know by any chance why the icon is not shown in charm store for this charm: https://jujucharms.com/u/cloudbaseit/ironic/trusty/10 ?
[14:02] <sto> jamespage: I've found my problem (non deployment of dhcp server on neutron-gateway); I was deploying neutron-gateway and nova-compute on the same host, and one charm was overwritting the other...
[14:05] <sto> jamespage: anyway, now I have my deployment and found this bug (https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1272572) on my cinder deployment, and the fix is the same (add a [keymgr] section to /etc/cinder/cinder.conf) ... I guess it has to be added to the cinder charm?
[14:05] <sto> Should I report a bug?
[15:59] <jose> arosales // arosales_ : ping
[16:00] <arosales_> jose, hello
[16:00] <jose> arosales_: hey, so Ubuntu is applying as an organization for Google Code-In, and we can publish Juju tasks for students to help us reduce some workload
[16:01] <jose> arosales_: my question is, would it be feasible to give a temporary key to those students to the AWS account we have in order for them to review stuff and develop new charms?
[16:02] <jose> I think that would encourage a lot of participation on their side, since cloud expenses can be expensive
[16:02] <marcoceppi> jose: all of them should just sign up for developer.juju.solutions
[16:02] <marcoceppi> we can give them all creds to work on juju
[16:03] <jose> marcoceppi: that's amazing, thanks!
[16:03] <arosales_> marcoceppi, jose: +1 to anyone applying for charm dev time @ developer.juju.solutions
[16:04] <arosales_> open to anyone doing charm dev work
[16:04] <jose> great!
[16:04] <jose> I'll email the list soon about what it is and how we can publish tasks
[16:04] <arosales_> jose, also encourage folks you know working on those tasks to pop in here, on the list, and during office hours
[16:05] <jose> will do - contest will run starting on Dec and finishing by the end of Jan, so expect to see a bit of a pike on activity there
[16:07] <arosales_> jose, do you have a link?
[16:07] <jose> arosales_: codein.withgoogle.com
[16:07] <arosales_> jose, also do you need help compiling a lit of tasks?
[16:08] <marcoceppi> lazypower: my live stream video got removed in some countries because of your mix :(
[16:08] <jose> arosales_: not right now - we're on the process of finishing our application (reg closes in 1h!) and if we get approved we can then gather some tasks
[16:08] <lazypower> marcoceppi : I'm not surprised.
[16:08] <lazypower> copyright law is draconian
[16:14] <arosales_> jose, ok - thanks for applying
[18:19] <gnuoy> jamespage, https://code.launchpad.net/~gnuoy/charm-helpers/exlude-no-openstack-origin/+merge/277005 has been up for a few days if you get a moment
[19:49] <marcoceppi> stub: hey, does your postgresql rewrite also work on precise?


[07:20] <lordievader> Good morning
[14:14] <mybalzitch> whats so damn good about it /s
[19:40] <jafa2> smartctl health check - is the --health option by itself enough for smartctl to check the pre-fail attributes and report in the exit code or does it only check the drive reported pass/fail?
[19:57] <jafa2> or looking at that another way - when health polling smartctl what options do you like to use?


[13:56] <Jonukas> Hi, not sure if this is the right place, but I just spotted a typo that I wanted to tell someone about.
[14:04] <Jonukas> Go to https://ubuntu.com/download/server, select "Option 2 - Manual server installation", click the download button. The next page has a "Get Ubuntu Server pro tips" button. If you fill out the info, you'll get "Ubuntu.Server.CLI.pro.tips.19.04.22.pdf". The error is in that PDF. Under the Packages section the entry for "Remove the package" is listed twice.


[02:04] <basenji> What language are you translating ? Afrikaans for me
[11:44] <basenji> I need some help with translations
[11:48] <basenji> I am on Ubuntu Translators Team
[21:17] <basenji> When translating I have came across errors in word spelling. I just correct the spelling in the translation. Should I file a translation bug report on the misspelled word??
[21:23] <GunnarHj> basenji: Spelling errors in original English strings are not really translation bugs. I think you rather should file a bug against the package in question. But if you let me know of an example, I may be able to give you more accurate guidance.
[21:49] <basenji> Thanks
[21:51] <basenji> I translate Afrikaans language. What language do you translate ?
[22:10] <GunnarHj> basenji: Swedish if anything. And I'm also working with translation coordination for Ubuntu.
[22:14] <basenji> I am an administrator for Launchpad Afrikaans Translators & on Ubuntu Afrikaans Translators team.
[22:16] <basenji> The spell error is very seldom. Usually only one word being misspelled
[22:32] <GunnarHj> basenji: Bernard Stafford is applying to become an Ubuntu member. Maybe you are able to help him by submitting a testimonial? https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/bernard-stafford-membership-application/25395
[22:39] <basenji> Small world that is me, thanks for the referral
[22:49] <basenji> I do believe i am the only translator of Afrikaans left. I looked at status none of them have account activity for years.
[23:26] <GunnarHj> basenji: Oh, sorry about that. :/ For some reason I thought it was somebody else.
[23:29] <basenji> It all good. ever log into ubuntu-offtopic
[23:50] <GunnarHj> basenji: What do you mean with the latter?


[04:56] <mark06> why the same branch is 7MB fresh new from Launchpad and 30MB in the copy where I've recommitted whole branch?
[04:57] <mark06> I thought uncommit mean it
[04:58] <spiv> Uncommit doesn't delete the commit from the repository
[04:58] <spiv> It just changes the branch to no longer refer to it.
[04:58] <bob2> did 'bzr gc' ever get implemented?
[04:58] <mark06> annoying
[04:59] <mark06> how to really uncommit it? or delete from repository if you prefer
[04:59] <spiv> Also, you will probably find 'bzr pack --clean-obsolete-packs' reduces the size of the bzr directory (note that bzr will do that housekeeping automatically from time to time without you needing to do it manually)
[05:00] <mark06> does it delete uncommitted commits?
[05:00] <spiv> Until someone implements the hypothetical 'bzr gc' command bob2 mentions, you have to do it manually: create a new repo, and branch into that (omitting any branches and thus revisions that you don't want).
[05:00] <bob2> no
[05:00] <bob2> you can reclone if you really care
[05:01] <lifeless> didn't someone implement gc in a plugin ?
[05:01] <spiv> (If you only have one branch, then this is simply 'bzr branch original-dir new-dir')
[05:01] <spiv> (and are using standalone branches, I should add)
[05:02] <mark06> well I only create branches with bzr init, does that qualify?
[05:02] <spiv> If you never used bzr init-repo, sure.
[05:04] <mark06> so it's basically bzr branch $each $each.new && rm -r $each?
[05:05] <mark06> right I never used bzr init-repo
[05:08] <mark06> btw, I was thinking of gathering together some scripts of mine which currently have their own branches, but if I use a single branch I'll lose individualized history for each script
[05:08] <spiv> Right.
[05:08] <spiv> There are ways to merge unrelated branches without losing history.
[05:09] <mark06> so I wondered if I could create some sort of "multi-branch", is that what repos are about?
[05:09] <spiv> Search the mailing list archives, IIRC the 'bzr merge-into' plugin may help
[05:10] <spiv> (Also "bzr merge -r0..-1 $unrelated_other" for simple cases)
[05:11] <spiv> No, shared repos are simply about efficiency.
[05:12] <spiv> (If you have N branches of a project, the vast majority of history will be exist in more than 1 branch, but if they share a repo each revision is only stored once.  This unsurprisingly saves a heap of disk space and makes things faster.)
[05:12] <spiv> Ugh, pardon the mangled grammar :)
[05:12] <fullermd> I think jam wrote a gc plugin.  A very long time ago.  Like pre-2a ago, if not earlier...
[05:13] <mark06> ok, but your suggestion will only work for past commits not new ones, right
[05:13] <fullermd> You can merge multiple unrelated branches together; I do it all the time.  Can't work with them independently after that though.
[05:14] <fullermd> (well, you can, on the original unjoined bits, but post-join work is all somewhat irrevocably joined)
[05:15] <mark06> well, actually I can bzr [q]log filename, then I'll see individual histories separately
[05:16] <fullermd> Yes, but I mean you can't turn that one joined branch back into N separate branches.
[05:18] <mark06> ok I mean about the whole idea of multi-branches, not needed at all... the only inconvenience is need to specify component in commit messages for global log not being confusing, but it's ok
[05:20] <mark06> either way, I think you can hack into uncommit and revert to unmerge separate branches... original commit dates could be kept with --commit-time in the new branch...
[05:21] <mark06> which I just found out after recommitting all my problematic branches :(
[05:21] <fullermd> Only by backing up to before they're merged together (which kinda beats the dolphin).
[05:23] <mark06> btw I have recommitted some branches due to a bug between MSVCRT and MSYS, but in the meanwhile I found out what seems a bug with qlog...
[05:24] <mark06> commit times were being kept 1 hour forward (timezone -2) but even after fixing that (timezone -3) qlog seems to still be confused...
[05:25] <mark06> maybe still referencing replaced  commits? I haven't found a pattern to reproduce and file a bug though
[08:13]  * fullermd waves at vila.
[08:18] <jelmer> mgz!
[08:18] <mgz> morning
[08:20] <mgz> how are you today jelmer?
[08:23] <jelmer> in need of coffee
[08:23] <jelmer> mgz: how are you?
[08:24] <mgz> not quite arrived at coffee yet :)
[08:26] <vila> fullermd: \o
[08:26] <vila> hi jelmer, mgz ;)
[08:26] <mgz> hey vila!
[08:40] <vila> lifeless: happy EOJ ;) Have fun !
[08:47] <lifeless> vila: thanks
[16:02] <Limit_> hi!
[16:02] <Limit_> I am unable to connect to launchpad using bzr
[16:03] <Limit_> It shows connection reset and I wanted to know if I could ask bzr to make requests at specific ports. Any help?
[16:24] <Limit_> SSH in my college is blocked. Can anyone suggest an alternative way to connect to Launchpad using bzr ?
[16:29] <vila> Limit_: then no write access for you :-/ http should be fine to read though
[17:10] <Limit_> vila: so I would atleast be able to fetch code??
[17:12] <mgz> Limit_: yup, you need to remove your launchpad login from your config and ignore bzr telling you you've not logged into launchpad
[17:13] <mgz> that means removing 'launchpad_username' from bazaar.conf and deleting the launchpad.net section of authentication.conf
[17:13] <Limit_> mgz: oh! that would atleast partly solve my problem! thanks :)
[17:14] <mgz> running `bzr version` will tell you where to find those
[17:14] <mgz> then when you branch lp:PROJECT it'll use the http link (which your college probably don't filter)
[17:15] <Limit_> mgz: new doubt. When  I try to upload code the next time, I'll have to add the launchpad_username and add info in authentication.conf, right?
[17:20] <mgz> Limit_: just `bzr launchpad-login YOURLPNAME` would be enough, but if this is a laptop and you're going on and off networks with ssh support that would still get annoying
[17:21] <mgz> what I had for a long time, was a pristine copy of trunk that was linked to the http location of the branch on launchpad
[17:22] <mgz> but then when I did feature branches that needed pushing rather than just pull, had my lp name in so push lp: used ssh
[17:24] <Limit_> mgz: yes i have a laptop and that was the reason I asked you :)
[17:25] <vila> interesting use case, worth a bug, this screams: configure me !
[17:25] <Limit_> vila: I don't understand what configuration changes would be useful in this case
[17:27] <vila> a way to switch from places with ssh and the others
[17:27] <vila> *ssh access
[17:28] <vila> did you try asking your admins to allow ssh access by the way ?
[17:29] <Limit_> Yes I did
[17:29] <Limit_> They simply denied.
[17:30] <Limit_> vila: about the configuration, we just need to write a script that swaps 2 configurations :) I have already created one for home and one for college. The script would name the required one as bazaar.conf or authentication.conf :)
[17:30] <vila> they denied blocking ssh ?
[17:31] <Limit_> no, they denied unblocking SSH
[17:31] <vila> oh, as in they refused (sorry, not a native) ?
[17:31] <Limit_> vila: Yes. we are not having SSH connection which stops me from pulling/pushing code.
[17:32] <vila> Limit_: otherwise, you're right, a simple script can do. You'll have to remember modifying the two copies in sync though
[17:32] <Limit_> vila: yes
[17:33] <fullermd> Well, the usual solution to such blocking is "just tunnel it over ssh"...   ;>
[17:34] <Limit_> fullermd: I could tunnel SSH over HTTP but, I don't think launchpad would accept the code that is pushed over HTTP
[17:35] <fullermd> Oh, well, you could just encode those as DNS TXT packets for the transfer.
[17:38] <Limit_> fullermd: I am sorry I didn't get you.   There's also the bookmarks plugin.
[17:40] <fullermd> (you'd still have to spec the location when you're on whichever network you consider the special case, but it'd save you typing out the full deals)
[17:42] <mgz> just having the http link as the parent worked suprisingly well for me
[17:43] <mgz> wasn't often I wanted to do more than pull trunk and hack locally
[17:43] <Limit_> mgz: yes it will let me work on my code. It's just that for the time I am in college I'll have to submit patches.
[21:31] <janos__> in bzr explorer, is there a way to remove the [Toolbox] somehow?
[21:32] <janos__> i mean permanently, with configuration or something
[21:33] <janos__> the thing is, every time i click refresh it comes back
[21:34] <janos__> maybe that's not clear enough
[21:34] <janos__> here's what i mean:
[21:35] <janos__> create a branch: bzr init tmpbranch
[21:35] <janos__> open bzr explorer on it: bzr explorer tmpbranch
[21:35] <janos__> the top-right part is the "Toolbox"
[21:35] <janos__> it's something you hardly ever use (me, never)
[21:36] <janos__> you can click the [x] button, it will go away, but only until you hit refresh
[21:39] <janos__> a workaround that helps a bit: snap the Toolbox out of the frame, and then snap it back in -> this creates some sort of tabbed window, with the Toolbox and the Working Tree as tabs. This is better, because I can just switch to the Working Tree tab, the Toolbox will not be visible that way, and this layout is preserved even if I refresh
[21:39] <janos__> but i have to do this every time i launch bzr explorer
[21:45] <w7z> janos__: don't know off hand, but one way or another should be possible to remove it
[21:49] <janos__> w7z: so there is hope!
[21:50] <w7z> if nothing else, you can probably comment it out in the python
[21:52] <janos__> w7z: probably
[21:54] <janos__> w7z: i need this for some non-programmer friends, it won't look very good if i have to tell them to go into the python code and comment out line X
[21:55] <janos__> well if there is no other way it's better than nothing
[21:56] <w7z> janos__: try line 205 in explorer.py
[21:57] <w7z> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~bzr-explorer-dev/bzr-explorer/trunk/view/head:/lib/explorer.py#L205
[21:57] <w7z> comment out that in your local copy
[21:57] <w7z> or poke this function:
[21:57] <w7z> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~bzr-explorer-dev/bzr-explorer/trunk/view/head:/lib/explorer.py#L708
[21:58] <w7z> that looks like it has preferences you can set
[21:58] <janos__> ok hang on
[21:58] <w7z> so try setting those preferences to false
[22:00] <janos__> thanks w7z, this is gooood!
[22:01] <w7z> you found the preferences and that did the right thing?
[22:02] <janos__> L205 just made the toolbox displayed popped out, the other one around L708 does what I want, I just set tbox_applicable = False ignoring all the ifs
[22:06] <janos__> w7z: i'm having the impression that i could set preferences somewhere, that way my friends don't have to edit python code
[22:07] <janos__> w7z: any ideas where that might be? maybe somewhere under ~/.bazaar ?
[22:15] <janos__> uhm, it's the DEFAULT_PREFERENCES['toolbox-on-status-view'] what i want to override to False, wonder if the setting is exposed somewhere in the UI or config file
[22:24] <janos__> w7z: got it! it's in ~/.bazaar/explorer/explorer.conf
[22:25] <janos__> i can set there the toolbox-on-* to false
[22:25] <janos__> thanks a lot w7z this is great!
[22:26] <janos__> gotta go now, bye all


[14:19] <abolfazl123> hi.i search a lot in google but i found no thing in it.so i come here.I install remastersys in my ubuntu.when i make a remaster of my linux and i want test that it dosnt work.my virtual box said:"FATAL:No bootable medium found!System halted."what's the wrong?


[01:00] <sbalneav> Is it just me, or has Firefox quit working in lucid? :(
[01:00] <stgraber> well, that's called firefox 3.6
[01:00] <stgraber> ...
[01:00] <stgraber> I'm running google chrome at the moment so it's not disturbing me that much though
[01:01] <sbalneav> So, it's a known issue?
[01:02] <sbalneav> so, if I rm -rf mozilla, it comes up
[01:03] <sbalneav> then if I quit, and re-start, it won't come up until I rm -rf mozilla again
[01:03] <sbalneav> that's.... pretty broken
[01:26] <sbalneav> urg.  Veeeeery frustrating
[08:07] <vmlintu> joerg: I'm working on the script
[13:14] <joerg> vmlintu, cool....give me the link when it is finished....thx :)
[14:23] <alkisg> !info libnss3-1d jaunty
[15:18] <sbalneav> Morning all
[16:47] <Ahmuck> can we get an idf of edubuntu events?
[16:48] <highvoltage> idf?
[16:49] <Ahmuck> sunbird calander subscribe to
[16:49] <Ahmuck> ids ?
[16:49] <Ahmuck> sorry, an ical
[16:50] <highvoltage> Ahmuck: the fridge covers most of it, we have our meetings on there too
[16:50] <highvoltage> Ahmuck: it's a google calendar but I think it can be exported to ical
[16:50] <Ahmuck> does the fridge have an ical that i can subscribe to?
[16:51] <stgraber> highvoltage: yep, works fine with ical, I use it in zimbra
[16:51] <Ahmuck> is there a ical link on the edubuntu webpage?
[16:53] <highvoltage> Ahmuck:we link to the calendar from teh meetings wiki page
[17:13] <Ahmuck> hurrya for veli-matti !
[18:21] <joerg_> sbalneav, hey.....are u there? could you give me a starting point for the spec thing? like where to put it (edubuntu wiki?), how to structure it, etc.?
[18:56] <joerg_> vmlintu, hey.....great work :) btw. is it your father, brother or son on the photo at opinsys.fi? :)
[22:46] <joerg> very quiet here today
[22:51] <Lns> yep
[23:10] <Lns> bye all =)
[23:27] <highvolt1ge> joerg: stgraber and I have been busy with https://www.ltsp-cluster.org/ :)
[23:28] <joerg> highvolt1ge, that's nice :) and why do u tell me that? ;)
[23:29] <highvolt1ge> joerg: because you mentioned how quiet it is here today!
[23:30] <joerg> highvolt1ge, btw. got a phone call from a collegue who takes care about the regional computer stuff from the pedagogic point of view :)
[23:31] <joerg> highvolt1ge, hey jörg, I checked out usb stick linux distros today and found moblin which looks so goood so much nicer than the windows stuff, we need to give it to the primary schools, the kiddies will love it :D
[23:31] <highvolt1ge> joerg: I played with moblin last week
[23:31] <joerg> highvolt1ge, ah, okay....but anyway, you don't need to tell me what reason you have for being quiet :)
[23:32] <joerg> I never played with moblin.
[23:32] <highvolt1ge> joerg: I'm thinking of running it on my netbook, it's really slick
[23:32] <highvolt1ge> I took some screenshots, thought of blogging about it
[23:32] <joerg> I am just happy that he as a complete linux NOOOB seems to be excited without me telling him how nice everything is with linux :)
[23:32] <highvolt1ge> but screenshots alone doesn't do it justice
[23:32] <highvolt1ge> I'll have to take a video
[23:33] <highvolt1ge> yes that's great :)
[23:34] <joerg> how's ltsp performing when it comes to multimedia things?
[23:34] <joerg> like watching videos or whatever?
[23:35] <joerg> e.g. ten people running firefox and watching some youtube stuff on the machine over a 100mbit ethernet?
[23:35] <highvolt1ge> works quite well. especially when you run your media player as a local app
[23:35] <joerg> ah, okay....haven't checked out ltsp for ages....
[23:36] <highvolt1ge> yep, that will work just fine.
[23:36] <joerg> and never did anything with local apps
[23:36] <highvolt1ge> yes the current implementation of it is quite new
[23:36] <joerg> we once had 486 machines as ltsp thin clients *LOL*
[23:36] <joerg> that was when kde 2 was the current new kde release I think.
[23:36] <highvolt1ge> yes I've seen one lab before with 486 clients. you'll definitely not be able to stream youtube videos with those :)
[23:37] <highvolt1ge> yep, same with the lab I saw
[23:37] <highvolt1ge> Mandrake with KDE 2
[23:37] <joerg> well, we throw them away I think
[23:37] <highvolt1ge> and some real old LTSP version
[23:37] <joerg> or they are lying around somewhere
[23:37] <highvolt1ge> I think it was still 3.x
[23:37] <joerg> as I know the admins, they don't throw away anything :D
[23:37] <highvolt1ge> heh
[23:38] <joerg> I think it was 2.x here :)
[23:38] <joerg> I think we moved to ltsp 3 then which had heaps of new features like sound support....
[23:39] <joerg> it is not based on xdmcp anymore, right?
[23:39] <joerg> using freenx now?
[23:39] <highvolt1ge> it can use freenx, but it uses ssh by default
[23:39] <stgraber> using regular X export over SSH, so a lot more secure than XDMCP and still let's you do whatever X suppports (not like with FreeNX)
[23:40] <joerg> oh and I even remember that some freaks here were using ltsp to start rdesktop to connect to a win2k3 terminalserver :D
[23:40] <stgraber> NX would be great for the bandwidth but you'd loose sound, video, compiz, ...
[23:40] <joerg> uhh
[23:40] <highvolt1ge> joerg: you'd be suprised at how common a usecase that is
[23:40] <joerg> thought it was doing at least sound
[23:40] <joerg> or does only the nomachine nx do sound?
[23:40] <joerg> or not at all? :)
[23:41] <stgraber> it does but with ESD which is deprecated and doesn't work anymore
[23:41] <joerg> btw. can anybody help me getting started with that portal server project?
[23:41] <joerg> I never really did some open source project with specs and everything
[23:41] <joerg> I mostly have small stuff
[23:42] <joerg> that I develop on my own, have my svn repo at sourceforge and share it...
[23:42] <joerg> but as the portal project is a bit bigger, I'd like to do it in a more collaborative way....
[23:43] <joerg> but dunno where to start. e.g. how to structure a spec in a usable way, where to publish it, how to attract people / recruit other developers etc. :)
[23:44] <joerg> any ideas or docs that could help me get going?
[23:46] <highvolt1ge> joerg: you posted about it to the list before right?
[23:51] <joerg> highvolt1ge, yes, some days ago with a very rough idea.
[23:52] <joerg> highvolt1ge, scott (sbalneaves) wants to help me but he's very busy at the moment....well, and I am not, so I'd like to start doing sth asap :)
[23:54] <joerg> btw. what is the recommended way to mount user homedirs on an ltsp server? back in the "old times" we used nfs + nis, but that's not state of the art anymore I guess :)
[23:59] <highvolt1ge> joerg: I kept it marked as unread because I want to give it some proper attention at some point, haven't had time to read and think about it properly yet, but it seems like a good idea


[00:01] <mmikowski> Definitely latest chrome; I have not tested chromium.
[00:02] <mmikowski> vorlon: I have tested on multiple devices; arraybolt3 checked and confirmed the bug and the work-around. I haven't filed this anywhere yet, but thought it would be useful for many people.
[00:07] <mmikowski> fwiw, also confirmed: not a problem with Nvidia GPU + intel frame buffer (optimus graphics)
[01:31] <vorlon> mmikowski: well, we don't ship chrome... :)
[06:05] <vorlon> ginggs, doko: I'm just going to yank python3.10 out of -proposed, I've seen now that it's also broken on arm64
[06:06] <ginggs> vorlon: thanks.  i see there is a 3.10.10-2 in debian, not sure if that fixes the arm issues
[06:12] <doko> vorlon: what is broken on arm64?
[06:13] <vorlon> doko: python3.10-minimal is uninstallable due to the same syntax error as on armhf
[06:14] <vorlon> Setting up python3.10-minimal (3.10.10-1) ...
[06:14] <vorlon>   File "/usr/lib/python3.10/_sysconfigdata__aarch64-linux-gnu.py", line 45
[06:14] <vorlon>     '
[06:14] <vorlon>     ^
[06:14] <vorlon> SyntaxError: unterminated string literal (detected at line 45)
[06:14] <vorlon> so there seems to be some autogeneration code that goes wrong on Ubuntu
[06:14] <doko> yes, fixed in -2, but in the end it won't be shipped in lunar
[06:14] <vorlon> right
[06:15] <doko> the reverse-depends list is still looking a little bit long
[06:15] <vorlon> yeah I noticed that
[06:24] <ginggs> vorlon: not sure if i'm reading https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python3.10/+publishinghistory right, but looks like 3.10.10-2 was deleted?
[21:45] <webchat99> Hello everyone! My name is Inshal, and I'm a computer science undergrad student who is eager to contribute to the Ubuntu community. I've been fascinated by the Ubuntu distro and its open-source philosophy, and I'm eager to get involved and give back to the community. However, I'm not quite sure where to start.
[21:45] <webchat99> I have experience with programming languages like Go, and I'm excited to learn more about how I can contribute my skills and knowledge to help improve Ubuntu. If anyone has any advice or suggestions for how I can get started with contributing, I would greatly appreciate it!


[06:34] <darkxst> flexiondotorg, I am not even sure if we are participating in Alpha 2 (still blocked on a few core updates, so its not incredibly useful)
[09:32] <flexiondotorg> darkxst, OK, understood.
[18:51] <Euphoria42> Hey! I have a wallpaper I would like to submit for consideration into the 15.10 release. Should I submit it to the mailing list or is their a different place you guys would want it?
[20:20] <arthur-dent> Could somebody please remind me of what the help command is that gives me a list of commands?
[20:25] <arthur-dent> Oh no, it's fine, I figured it out...


[04:08] <InHisName> Howdy jthan
[08:47] <JonathanD> Morning.
[09:13] <rmg51> Morning
[12:20] <teddy-dbear> Morning peoples, dogs, turkeys and everything else
[12:21] <JonathanD> Hi teddy-dbear
[12:21] <teddy-dbear> o/
[12:24] <InHisName> howdy all
[12:27] <JonathanD> hey InHisName
[14:02] <ChinnoDog> morning
[14:04] <JonathanD> hi ChinnoDog
[14:05] <ChinnoDog> What's up?
[14:06] <JonathanD> I'm scheduling the fosscon talks :)
[14:18] <MutantTurkey> I'm trying to think of a moreutils like tool to write
[14:18] <MutantTurkey> I was thinking a vertical diff could be cool
[14:19] <MutantTurkey> diff by column not line
[14:22] <ChinnoDog> k...
[16:36] <MutantTurkey> I'm thinking of starting a pc repair business on the side
[16:53] <ChinnoDog> Better create a formal price structure
[16:57] <patbarron> I won't touch anyone else's PC's anymore, even for pay.  Because anything that goes wrong with that PC in the future, no matter what it is, the person always thinks that it's because of something I did to the machine and wants me to fix it (for free...)
[16:58] <ChinnoDog> Yea, that is the business. lol.
[16:58] <ChinnoDog> If you are going to fix someone's PC then you are on the hook for everything else that happens to it.
[16:58] <pleia2> I think the only way it actually can make you money is if you enjoy it and don't value your time for other htings
[16:58] <patbarron> forever.
[16:58] <ChinnoDog> haha
[16:59] <pleia2> it's not actually a good business model
[16:59] <ChinnoDog> I disagree that you can't make money at it. If you set expectations I think you can make money.
[16:59] <ChinnoDog> People can't expect to use your time for free though.
[16:59] <MutantTurkey> I think a lot of poeple make great money with it
[16:59] <MutantTurkey> thats why you set the standard
[16:59] <MutantTurkey> you clearly charge XYZ and that's that.
[16:59] <pleia2> well sure, if you charge $150 per visit like best buy does ;)
[16:59] <MutantTurkey> don't get conned into repairs for free, because then they keep expecting
[16:59] <MutantTurkey> pleia2: or you undercut them and steal the market.
[17:00] <pleia2> I don't even know why I bother
[17:00] <MutantTurkey> ?
[17:00] <ChinnoDog> MutantTurkey, you are selling your time. Undercutting the others isn't necessarily the best strategy.
[17:00] <pleia2> MutantTurkey: it's kind of a cliche for a young technical person to decide to get into computer repair, I'm sure we've all done it, had your identical ideas, and failed miserably
[17:00] <ChinnoDog> You are already better than the alternative by virtue of having a name and a number they can call you at.
[17:01] <MutantTurkey> ChinnoDog: sure, you need to figure out what works for you, but I think it's not hard to undercut something like best buy
[17:01] <MutantTurkey> with terrible service, slow response times, and bad results at a high cost
[17:01] <MutantTurkey> pleia2: I guess, maybe because it's a good thing to make some money on the side?
[17:02] <MutantTurkey> I see a lot of non-technical people who need basic help, hell even being a consultant would be cool, because technical people might need help too
[17:02] <ChinnoDog> MutantTurkey, you have no idea what you are getting into. If you want more suggestions from me out of my experience though I am happy to provide them.
[17:02] <MutantTurkey> ChinnoDog: what sort of services did you provide?
[17:02] <pleia2> good luck
[17:02] <MutantTurkey> businesses or individuals?
[17:04] <patbarron> One of the problems with a defined rate structure, is that (especially with non-technical folks), most of their problems don't/won't fit into neat little boxes...
[17:05] <patbarron> The last time I touched someone's PC, it was a non-tech who wanted help getting Norton Antivirus on his machine, because he couldn't cope with "put the CD in and follow the instructions"...
[17:05] <ChinnoDog> Yea, there is that problem too.
[17:05] <patbarron> A week later, he calls me up, all upset - "Ever since you put that Norton on my machine, my printer doesn't print anymore!"
[17:06] <patbarron> So I go over there and take a look at it.  Out of ink...
[17:06] <JonathanD> patbarron: his telephone sounds kind of staticy too, obviously related to norton.
[17:06] <patbarron> That's the sort of stuff I used to get all the time...  I just couldn't stand it anymore...
[17:06] <JonathanD> I have a couple people I will do work for (for pay)
[17:07] <JonathanD> it's a rather short list.
[17:07] <JonathanD> And one business, but he pays well and is very flexible.
[17:07] <JonathanD> thats more planning and purchasing than anything, though.
[17:08] <JonathanD> not PC repair.
[17:08] <JonathanD> PC repair is generally awful :)
[17:08] <ChinnoDog> I know someone that did pretty well at it. He networked through his friend's families and eventually became the go-to computer guy for everyone that knew him.
[17:09] <JonathanD> MutantTurkey: heres the thing.
[17:09]  * MutantTurkey is listening
[17:09] <JonathanD> Nearly every single person you meet anywhere has something wrong with their PC.
[17:10] <JonathanD> Most just don't care :)
[17:10] <MutantTurkey> right
[17:10] <JonathanD> at least, not until it becomes unusable.
[17:10] <MutantTurkey> hell even I do...
[17:10] <JonathanD> Most of us do.
[17:10] <JonathanD> That script that doesn't work quite right, but isn't bad enough to fix
[17:10] <JonathanD> etc.
[17:10] <MutantTurkey> piles of unmaintanable code not worth looking at
[17:11] <MutantTurkey> who the hell knows OCaml? not me
[17:11] <JonathanD> It would not suprise me if everyone in this channel has at least one thing that doesn't work right, but works well enough not to fix.
[17:11] <MutantTurkey> sure
[17:11] <JonathanD> That ends up being the kind of stuff people will call you for.
[17:11] <JonathanD> They want to do X with Y.
[17:12] <JonathanD> You tell them Y can't do X.
[17:12] <JonathanD> They want it anyway.
[17:12] <JonathanD> Eventually you leave, 3 months later they bring it up again.
[17:12] <JonathanD> At least, thats what I always found when I did this stuff.
[17:13] <JonathanD> I don't know if being the go-to computer guy for everyone you know is actually desirable.
[17:13] <JonathanD> You want to choose your customers.
[17:14] <patbarron> I kind of (purposely) priced myself out of the market.  Eventually, started telling people - "$75/hr, billing based on actual time spent, minimum 2 hour charge per incident."  If someone really wants me in particular, bad enough to pay what I ask ... we'll talk.
[17:14] <MutantTurkey> but how do you pick?
[17:15] <ChinnoDog> Everyone knew that if they asked him a question though it was going ot cost money
[17:15] <ChinnoDog> Meaning, any work he did would cost money
[17:15] <JonathanD> MutantTurkey: well, kinda like what patbarron just said, you set certain expectations.
[17:15] <MutantTurkey> so what's the problem ChinnoDog ?
[17:15] <MutantTurkey> what I am hearing: make it clear so that the customer gets what you exactly say and expects what you say
[17:16] <MutantTurkey> that is why I think doing small businesses could potentially be better
[17:16] <MutantTurkey> but possibly not
[17:16] <patbarron> And also, make sure the customer understands that if you didn't agree to it explicitly, it's not included...
[17:17] <MutantTurkey> sure, i feel like i need to be a lawyer first :p
[17:17] <ChinnoDog> MutantTurkey: It isn't a problem so long as your customers are respectful of your time.
[17:17] <MutantTurkey> right
[17:18] <MutantTurkey> then again working as a underling in Acedamia there isn't a lot of that either
[17:18] <MutantTurkey> right waltman?
[17:20] <waltman> time has no meaning in academia
[17:21] <ChinnoDog> haha
[17:22] <waltman> MutantTurkey: is this because Cricket wants you to fix her computer? :)
[17:23] <MutantTurkey> more like fix the servers she keeps crashing...!
[17:24] <waltman> heh
[17:24] <waltman> sysadmin sounds like a better careerpath than computer fixer
[17:27] <ChinnoDog> Computer repair business owner sounds like a better career path than sysadmin.
[17:28] <ChinnoDog> Especially if you sit in your office and chat on IRC all day while your minions fix computers.
[17:28] <MutantTurkey> ChinnoDog: true
[17:29] <waltman> heh
[17:35] <jedijf> isn't the new price point getting too low. general public will replace rather than repair
[17:48] <jedijf> hen i grab off curb with plans to refurbish.....and never get to it
[17:48] <jedijf> *then
[17:52] <ChinnoDog> That is true too but they still need help getting their old data to the new system and helping them get rid of the old one could have a return.
[17:55] <ChinnoDog> Helping them select a new system can also be a paid activity.
[19:47] <bts3685> my $0.02: sysadmin > pc tech
[19:50] <bts3685> any schmuck can get an A+ cert and say they're qualified. the real money- and what you'll want to pursue- is asterisk. learn that and you'll have to turn down offers because you'll have so many clients
[19:50]  * bts3685 has had to do that
[19:51] <bts3685> VoIP is something nobody has time to learn but everybody (in the corporate world) wants