[03:29] <youDownWithIRC> hi all, i have installed lubuntu 19.10, into the emcc of an atomic pi.  I'm looking to change o.s.'s, and i want to back up the current installation onto a flash drive, so i can be able to reinstall it again.  There's a lot of information out there, and its confusing to know which is the best method for me
[03:30] <youDownWithIRC> so here is my question, whats the best way to backup a lubunbtu installation thats currently in the emcc of a computer, onto an external flash drive, to be able to 'restore it' later.  any help is appreciated
[04:45] <guiverc> youDownWithIRC, I don't know, I'd likely use `dd` to take a copy of the drive & save that, plus `rsync` all wanted files (if re-install is necessary so you can restore that on re-installed image).. I backup multiple ways usually to different locations in case some fail for some reason; but I have no experience with pi (except using rsync for wanted files)
[05:22] <youDownWithIRC> hello all.
[05:37] <tbs> hi
[06:06] <mmebsd> which is better between lubuntu and xubuntu
[06:06] <mmebsd> whihc one is more popular?
[06:13] <tbs> metbsd: u should search web for this question i guess
[06:14] <guiverc> metbsd, they each have strengths and weaknesses; your end-use case will dictate which is best for you.  Lubuntu is lighter, but use it certain ways and Xubuntu may be lighter for you (ie. your use case will dictate which best suits you)
[06:16] <tbs> i have 4 gb ram, with xfce if i remember right it uses %12 ram, with lubuntu it uses %11 ram at start. i would say lighter if it was %10 or less at least
[06:16] <metbsd> i just want a light weight gui os for old hardware
[06:16] <guiverc> metbsd, there are also differences between versions; XFCE as used by Xubuntu has moved from GTK2 to GTK3 which has had effects (noticable on older hardware more than newer), Lubuntu from LXQt (GTK2) to LXQt (Qt5)
[06:17] <metbsd> so gtk3 is lighter than qt5 right?
[06:17] <guiverc> In my experience GTK3 is heavier than GTK2; I felt Xubuntu slow down on really old hardware as it moved to GTK3
[06:18] <guiverc> though on this box I'm using now with more grunt, I really couldn't see a difference... it'll depend on your hardware.
[06:18] <guiverc> MATE also slowed down significantly switching from GTK2 to GTK3
[06:19] <tbs> i just came from xfce mint, i guess lubuntu and xfce mint s smilar about being light, the reason i left xfce is there s no option for arrange items at desktop
[06:19] <guiverc> LXQt is actually extremely light, I couldn't really spot a difference between it and LXDE (GTK2) - however the GTK2 to Qt5 makes differences necessary to remain light (effect would be lost possibly using GTK3 apps for example with limited RAM)
[06:22] <tbs> imo u should create bootable usb of xubuntu and lubuntu and see the differance, but i suggest u to use xfce mint if
[06:22] <tbs> if u want xfce desktop, cuz it configured better than xubuntu imo
[06:22] <tbs> but im not sure since i dont know much
[06:24] <guiverc> different versions have different software stacks - so need to be considered; the version of Xubuntu will say if all GTK3 (19.10) or only part GTK3 (parts GTK2) - really old versions running GTK2 only were lightest..  but even if nothing running - that's not the full picture for 'lightness' as libs used by desktop should match the libs needed for your apps to remain light.
[06:24]  * guiverc fyi:  versions of Xubuntu using GTK2 only are now all EOL
[06:26] <guiverc> metbsd, what age hardware?
[06:47] <metbsd> guiverc, it's pentium t series cpu. dual core
[06:47] <metbsd> it's garbage
[06:49] <guiverc> 2010 it looks like (or the t4500 I'm comparing to), you'll probably not notice the difference much with that; by OLD I was thinking older.. on that I'd probably worry about RAM usage more than cpu.
[06:51] <guiverc> fyi: the desktop I'm replying on is from 2009
[07:03] <guiverc> metbsd, I just noticed I have a lenovo thinkpad sl510 (c2d-t6570, 2gb ram, i915)  listed in my test machines; ; yeah it's slow..
[07:03] <metbsd> mine is like your cpu.
[07:04] <metbsd> what os do you suggest? i tried win7 it's pretty slow im expecting linux faster
[07:05] <guiverc> metbsd, consider your user preferences (xubuntu/lubuntu) & GUI you prefer, but also apps you want to use..   (if GTK3 apps, use Xubuntu, if Qt apps use modern Lubuntu, ... Lubuntu is lighter but the lightness can be lost with poor app choice)
[07:05] <metbsd> basically just a browser and movie player
[07:06] <metbsd> what's what my dad want
[07:08] <guiverc> on the sl510 I mentioned; Lubuntu is lighter & slightly faster, but difference is not huge.. thus GUI preference is an issue. If Lubuntu, which Lubuntu - LXDE (legacy) or LXQt (modern) - I like modern LXQt myself; but you'll need to upgrade to 20.04 before 19.10 reaches eol mid-2020.
 Why LXQT? Not XFCE?
 Why Lubuntu? Not Xubuntu?
 Coz lxqt is lighter
 @The_LoudSpeaker [Coz lxqt is lighter], When I boot OS into desktop and no running any program, ram usage of lxqt is lighter than xfce. … But I run several programs, the ram usage is increased less than lxqt, finally lxqt uses ram more than xfce about 20%-30%, I don't know why.
 That's because you are using gtk apps in lxqt. In xfce, gtk libraries, many gtk dependencies, etc are already loaded in ram hence you don't see a huge bump in usage. While you see more usage for same apps in lxqt. If you use qt apps with lxqt. I am sure you will get better results.
 Many apps provided with Lubuntu are qt apps. Libreoffice, Firefox, quassel, qttransmisson, etc.
 But Firefox on Xubuntu is gtk one.
 Same with libreoffice.
 @The_LoudSpeaker [That's because you are using gtk apps in lxqt. In xfce, gtk libraries, many gtk …], As long as I only use apps with qt that ram usage will be less than in xfce?
 Yup!
 @The_LoudSpeaker [Yup!], Thank You
 Welcome! :)
[18:53] <akemhp> So the default desktop of Lubuntu is LxQT?
[18:55] <akemhp> Also is it running OpenBox window manager at the same time? or is it only LxQT that does the window manager and desktop?
[19:21] <The_LoudSpeaker> yup! Default DE of Lubuntu is lxqt and openbox is the window manager.
[19:35] <akemhp> Ok, thanks The_LoudSpeaker :)
[19:36] <akemhp> I never heard about LXQT before LUbuntu, but it's nice, i guess it is pretty new maybe.
[19:36] <The_LoudSpeaker> Yup! It is new and currently under heavy development.
[19:37] <akemhp> It's good cause on fresh boot it takes only about 500 MB RAM on my old dual core desktop computer.
[19:37] <akemhp> Okay.
[19:37] <The_LoudSpeaker> Good to know.
[22:33] <wxl> i usually overwrite it with /dev/zero or /dev/null
[22:33] <wxl> err not /dev/null but /dev/urandom or /dev/random
[22:46] <wxl> if you want, or not
[22:50] <wxl> the `shred` command can simplify things
[22:54] <wxl> i would rather `dd` personally, but it's a little more dangerous/easier to screw up
[22:55] <wxl> you presumedly have GRUB in your MBR so if you remove the Lubuntu partition, you'll still be booting with GRUB
[22:55] <wxl> i'm not sure what GRUB will do if you remove its default partition
[23:02] <wxl> yes dd will work
[23:02] <wxl> and whether or not you have grub, you will have SOME sort of bootloader or another on a dual boot
[23:04] <drejc> Hello world!
[23:06] <wxl> https://manual.lubuntu.me/stable/3/3.1/3.1.9/sddm_configuration.html?highlight=autologin#usage
[23:10] <wxl> i don't understand your question?
[23:16] <wxl> or restart sddm
[23:16] <wxl> wait
[23:16] <wxl> you want to ADD autologin
[23:17] <wxl> https://wiki.debian.org/SDDM#Enable_autologin


[14:13] <joo1> -no space left on device- !...usb stick don t boot !can t make image smaller,1 file (3,2gb ) ?
[14:15] <joo1> thanks
[22:20] <williammanda> anyone available to answer firewall questions...ufw...iptables?
[22:21] <Mkays|> !crosspost | williammanda
[22:21] <ubot2`> williammanda: Please don't ask the same question in multiple Ubuntu channels at the same time. Many helpers are in more than one channel and it's not fair to them or the other people seeking support.
[22:22] <Mkays|> And you should ask at #ubuntu
[22:22] <williammanda> sorry...learning
[22:22] <williammanda> I did ask at ubuntu
[22:23] <Mkays|> If you do not get answer there, try asking at
[22:23] <Mkays|> !askubuntu
[22:23] <ubot2`> AskUbuntu is a support resource that offers non-realtime support by the community! Can't get your problem fixed on IRC? Try AskUbuntu! - http://askubuntu.com/ You can discuss AskUbuntu in #ubuntu-stack


[00:00] <cnd> I can push in the stuff for non-semi-mt devices
[00:00] <RAOF> It also depends on how bad the bad behaviour is.
[00:00] <cnd> though I guess I don't know that synaptics non-semi-mt don't do the same
[00:00] <cnd> it's not that bad of behavior
[00:00] <bryceh> xorg-edgers?
[00:00] <cnd> it's just a little faster than expected
[00:00] <cnd> if I had to guess, somewhere between 1.5 and 2 times faster
[00:00] <cnd> and only when you hold the button down
[00:00] <cnd> so click+drag
[00:01] <bryceh> hmm, that ratio sounds familiar
[00:01] <cnd> in fact, it's hardly a regression since click+drag didn't really work at all before :)
[00:01] <cnd> before this, clickpads would try to scroll if you did click+drag
[00:02] <cnd> which isn't really what the user wants
[00:02] <bryceh> oh, there was an input bug with touchpads when used on HD monitors that the X speed would be different from Y by the aspect ratio of the HD monitor
[00:03] <RAOF> bryceh: Yeah, that's the intended behaviour :)
[00:06] <bryceh> RAOF, no, there was a period where it was mis-calculated.
[00:06] <RAOF> Oh.  I didn't notice that :)
[00:08] <RAOF> cnd: Given its not a regression, the main concern would be that changing to the correct behaviour might be susprising.
[00:08] <cnd> heh, I don't think that's really a concern
[00:08] <cnd> clickpads are just broken broken broken on ubuntu right now
[00:08] <cnd> and this makes them not be :)
[00:14] <cnd> so it doesn't have anything to do with the X server's acceleration profile
[00:14] <cnd> whew
[00:15] <cnd> phew*
[00:18] <cnd> aha, I found the culprit
[00:19] <cnd> the estimate_delta function in synaptics
[00:20] <cnd> tbh, I think there's way too many independent acceleration, dampening, etc. functionalities through synaptics + xserver
[00:20] <cnd> and commenting out estimate_delta makes things behave normally
[00:23] <jschall> I have an nvidia gtx 560m... i get video tearing in all video players (incl. flash, mplayer) with compositing on, flash still tears with compositing off, mplayer is also seemingly dropping frames with compositing on, which is a lot more noticable when on battery (gpu clocks down to 202MHz gpu/324MHz ram)
[00:24] <jschall> and i NEVER had problems with the 8800gts on my desktop. what an insane regression.
[00:25] <jschall> any help? i've spent a lot of time trying to fix this... at the moment i'm running xorg-edgers, nvidia-current 295.17.
[00:29] <RAOF> jschall: You've got the relevant “sync to vblank” things flipped? (In Compiz, in nvidia-settings)
[00:29] <jschall> RAOF: kubuntu... i have vsync on in kwin, in nvidia-settings
[00:31] <jschall> wonder if noveau will ever be as good as the nvidia drivers
[00:32] <jschall> nouveau*
[00:35] <RAOF> Depends on what you mean by “as good”
[00:37] <jschall> well, doesn't seem to even allow kwin compositing to work
[00:37] <jschall> but maybe i didn't have a package i needed or something
[00:37] <RAOF> The 560m is, I think, too new to get acceleration support.
[00:37] <RAOF> At least in an Ubuntu release.
[00:38] <jschall> well, anyway, i'm happy with this laptop apart from this stupid video tearing thing... love to get it fixed
[00:38] <jschall> RAOF: any ideas at all?
[00:38] <jschall> RAOF: other than vsync switches?
[00:39] <RAOF> Not really, sorry.
[00:40] <jschall> maybe it'll be fixed in a new nvidia driver some day...
[00:41] <RAOF> Possibly ;)
[00:41] <jschall> RAOF: the juddering thing just seems weird, though... why wouldn't a modern video card be able to decode some video without dropping frames?
[00:41] <jschall> RAOF: the cpu can do it no problem...
[00:42] <jschall> RAOF: even though it's avc
[00:45] <RAOF> Shrug.
[00:45] <RAOF> It's not like we have much insight into the driver ;)
[00:49] <bjsnider> RAOF isn't the one to ask because he's a nouveau partisan
[00:49]  * RAOF prefers drivers we can fix, sure :)
[00:49] <Sarvatt> is it just fullscreen thats tearing? there was a change recently in kde to stop unredirecting fullscreen windows which might be why it changed for you that you might be able to undo with a setting somewhere but yeah KDE, dont use or know anything about it
[00:49] <RAOF> I also don't spend much time using the nvidia binary driver, so I'm particularly good at fixing problems with it.
[00:51] <jschall> Sarvatt: it does tear in fullscreen with or without compositing on.
[00:51] <Sarvatt> i was going to suggest reporting it but apparently you did and they told you to come here, it really sounds like a kde/kwin specific problem though
[00:51] <Sarvatt> err reporting it at nvnews.net forums
[00:51] <bjsnider> i don't think the 560m is too new
[00:51] <bjsnider> if the blob supports it it should get compositing and whatnot
[00:51] <jschall> bjsnider: will it run games with nouveau?
[00:52] <Sarvatt> probably not as good as you want if you cared enough to get a good GPU :)
[00:53] <jschall> Sarvatt: does it have support for all the opengl extensions that the proprietary drivers provide?
[00:53] <RAOF> No.
[00:53] <Sarvatt> nowhere near it :)
[00:53] <jschall> Sarvatt: honestly the only game i really ever run any more is heroes of newerth... that's going to change when d3 comes out.
[00:53] <bjsnider> that's a laugh
[00:54] <Sarvatt> you really dont want nouveau
[00:54] <jschall> hmm. k
[00:54] <jschall> i just don't want screen tearing
[00:54] <bjsnider> have you tried gnome?
[00:54] <jschall> there is an option in kwin to unredirect fullscreen
[00:54] <bjsnider> it's pretty good
[00:54]  * RAOF still contends that it's probably too new for acceleration under nouveau.
[00:54] <Sarvatt> RAOF: it should be fine in precise
[00:55] <jschall> bjsnider: you know, i haven't tried gnome but i really just don't want to use it. i did run a livecd to check for tearing
[00:55] <Sarvatt> did that have tearing too?
[00:55] <Sarvatt> then again that was nouveau :)
[00:55] <bjsnider> yes but i think it would be interesting to see if there was tearing in gnome
[00:55] <jschall> it didn't seem to have tearing
[00:56] <jschall> but yeah, i guess it would've been nouveau
[00:56] <bjsnider> there's no tearing by design in mutter, so i would try gnome-shell
[00:56] <jschall> i can't remember if i installed the nvidia drivers
[00:56] <jschall> i guess i couldn't have in a live usb
[00:57] <RAOF> Of course, there's no tearing by design in compiz either; that doesn't prevent tearing :)
[00:57] <bjsnider> sure there's tearing in compiz
[00:58] <bjsnider> you can turn off vsync and screw up the frame rate
[00:59] <bjsnider> but i'm an evil gnome-shell partisan so of course i'm going to recommend that
[00:59] <Sarvatt> jschall: have you tried disabling gpu acceleration to see if its any different?
[01:00] <Sarvatt> in whatever playback apps you're using
[01:00] <jschall> Sarvatt: well, mainly its flash
[01:00] <RAOF> bjsnider: I just meant that vsyncing in the compositor is insufficient to ensure tear-free. (Indeed, I don't think it's possible to ensure tear-free)
[01:01] <jschall> Sarvatt: and it does have that option but it makes no difference
[01:01] <jschall> Sarvatt: i don't even think it does anything
[01:01] <Sarvatt> ah gotcha
[01:01] <bjsnider> jschall, in which playre?
[01:01] <Sarvatt> how about in smplayer?
[01:02] <jschall> bjsnider: that's flash
[01:02] <Sarvatt> switching to gl, or xv, or x11
[01:02] <bjsnider> jschall, are you talking about right-clicking?
[01:02] <jschall> Sarvatt: let me try it again
[01:02] <jschall> bjsnider: yes
[01:02] <bjsnider> it doesn't do anything
[01:02] <jschall> ah
[01:03] <bjsnider> that has been disabled in linux because it causes minor aggravations like taking down x
[01:03] <bjsnider> smplayer was abandoned
[01:04] <jschall> bjsnider: with xv if there's any tearing its unnoticeable in smplayer
[01:04] <jschall> bjsnider: only issue is decoding avc EATS cpu
[01:04] <bjsnider> xv is useless
[01:04] <jschall> bjsnider: why?
[01:04] <bjsnider> which version of ubuntu is this?
[01:05] <jschall> gl has tearing
[01:05] <jschall> and is kinda slowish
[01:05] <jschall> juddery
[01:05] <jschall> its not a lot of tearing though
[01:06] <jschall> gl (fast) seems better
[01:06] <bjsnider> go ask uau in #mplayer2 which output driver you should use
[01:06] <jschall> gl2 also juddery
[01:06] <bjsnider> what version of ubuntu?
[01:06] <jschall> and tearing
[01:06] <jschall> kubuntu 11.10
[01:07] <jschall> -vo caca is perfect.
[01:07] <bjsnider> ok, well, there shouldn't be more than 30% cpu usage decoding avc, because we have ffmpeg-mt now
[01:07] <bjsnider> unless you're doing that 3d crap
[01:08] <jschall> 3d crap?
[01:10] <jschall> bjsnider: mplayer using 75% cpu decoding 1080p avc. cpu clocking to 2000mhz ish
[01:10] <jschall> bjsnider: with kwin compositing ("3d crap") disabled
[01:10] <jschall> bjsnider: that's with xv out
[01:10] <bjsnider> no, 3d video i meant
[01:10] <bjsnider> 10-bit video
[01:10] <jschall> bjsnider: oh
[01:10] <bjsnider> i'm assuming this is standard 1080p
[01:11] <bjsnider> what cpu?
[01:11] <jschall> bjsnider: vdpau out clocks the cpu down to 1200 and mplayer uses 10-25%
[01:11] <jschall> bjsnider: i7 2670qm
[01:11] <bjsnider> are you kidding me?
[01:11] <jschall> bjsnider: no
[01:11] <bjsnider> this is absurd
[01:11] <bjsnider> these numbers can't be correct
[01:12] <jschall> bjsnider: they are
[01:12] <bjsnider> you should get 5% with vdpau, and around 30% with ffmpeg-mt
[01:12] <jschall> bjsnider: as reported by i7z and top
[01:12] <bjsnider> is this just kde suckage?
[01:12] <jschall> bjsnider: no.
[01:12] <jschall> bjsnider: that's how much cpu it takes to decode avc
[01:12] <bjsnider> i've got an nvidia card that's crap compared to yours and i do much better
[01:13] <bjsnider> what about 1080p x264?
[01:13] <jschall> bjsnider: dunno if i have any
[01:13] <jschall> bjsnider: i can run mplayer with no output i assume
[01:14] <bjsnider> that's alright, just search for and download big buck bunny
[01:14] <bjsnider> what is the mplayer command you're using?
[01:16] <jschall> bjsnider: mplayer -vo null filename
[01:16] <jschall> bjsnider: 80% usage at 1.8-2.4ghz
[01:16] <jschall> bjsnider: kde not being used at all
[01:16] <jschall> bjsnider: compositing still off
[01:17] <bjsnider> mplayer -vo vdpau -vc ffvc1 -ao pulse file
[01:18] <jschall> Cannot find codec matching selected -vo and video format 0x31637661.
[01:18] <jschall> and then just the audio plays
[01:18] <bjsnider> mplayer -vo vdpau -vc ffh264 -ao pulse file
[01:19] <jschall> that's the one it uses normally
[01:19] <jschall> maybe i have an h264 file and not an avc file
[01:19] <bjsnider> no, it's the same thing
[01:19] <bjsnider> what's the cpu at?
[01:20] <jschall> bjsnider: 80%
[01:20] <bjsnider> are these actual blurays?
[01:21] <jschall> bjsnider: no
[01:21] <jschall> bjsnider: probably ripped from them though
[01:21] <bjsnider> alright, download big buck bunny and play that
[01:22] <bjsnider> give me the url and i will play it too
[01:22] <bjsnider> then we can compare
[01:22] <jschall> bjsnider: mmm firefly bluray rips
[01:23] <jschall> big buck bunny won't be avc so won't eat cpu
[01:23] <jschall> which version of bbb should i download?
[01:23] <jschall> mp4, h264, ogg?
[01:24] <bjsnider> h264 1080p
[01:26] <jschall> yeah, 40-60% and 1500-1800mhz
[01:26] <jschall> which comes out to like 20% at 3400mhz
[01:26] <jschall> which is what it can clock up to if it wants
[01:27] <jschall> what i should really be doing is power consumption tests
[01:27] <jschall> because that's what i care about if i'm going to watch on battery
[01:27] <jschall> anyway, something i noticed with mplayer -vo vdpau is that it didn't tear with compositing on...
[01:27] <jschall> so maybe its an smplayer thing
[01:28] <bjsnider> ok, try -vc ffh264vdpau
[01:28] <jschall> oh
[01:29] <jschall> bjsnider: yeah usual slowness and tearing
[01:29] <jschall> bjsnider: but low cpu usage!
[01:29] <bjsnider> how low?
[01:29] <bjsnider> 5%?
[01:31] <jschall> bjsnider: 15
[01:31] <jschall> bjsnider: oh and...
[01:32] <bjsnider> it should be around 5% maximum, so i expect this is a kwin issue
[01:32] <bjsnider> and watching it that way is the way to get around power issues
[01:32] <jschall> bjsnider: and like 1ghz
[01:32] <jschall> bjsnider: so at 3ghz it'd be 5%
[01:32] <bjsnider> ok
[01:32] <jschall> bjsnider: well lets find out watts up
[01:33] <jschall> bjsnider: =P
[01:33] <jschall> bjsnider: pulled battery, plugged into watt meter
[01:33] <jschall> bjsnider: 66.5 watts with this
[01:33] <bjsnider> with vdpau?
[01:33] <jschall> bjsnider: 78w with no vdpau on -vc
[01:34] <jschall> 66.5 with vdpau
[01:34] <jschall> with no vdpau can jump to 80
[01:34] <bjsnider> to be fair you'd have to run the cpu to full throttle
[01:34] <jschall> bjsnider: 72 with -vo xv and no vdpau in the codec
[01:36] <jschall> bjsnider: vdpau is the way to go for watts
[01:36] <jschall> bjsnider: for sure
[01:36] <bjsnider> we've known that for years
[01:36] <bjsnider> it's no surprise
[01:36] <bjsnider> but playback should be smooth and relatively judder-free
[01:37] <bjsnider> what's your screen's refresh rate?
[01:37] <jschall> bjsnider: but wait, different results with compositing off: vdpau uses MORE power than xv
[01:37] <jschall> bjsnider: wait, no
[01:37] <bjsnider> vdpau is superior to xv though
[01:37] <jschall> bjsnider: ran the test again, didn't give the meter enough time i guess
[01:38] <jschall> bjsnider: and now akonadi is doing something that uses 40% cpu...
[01:38] <jschall> bjsnider: oop, it just stopped
[01:38] <jschall> bjsnider: time to put battery back so i don't forget it's not there
[01:39] <jschall> bjsnider: anyway, interesting experiment
[01:39] <jschall> bjsnider: vdpau just sucks with compositing
[01:39] <bjsnider> constantly throttling the cpu down to the level of an old pentium isn't going to help performance
[01:39] <jschall> bjsnider: and flash just always sucks no matter what
[01:39] <jschall> bjsnider: umm, it works great...
[01:40] <jschall> bjsnider: it throttles it when it needs to
[01:40] <jschall> bjsnider: its a laptop
[01:40] <bjsnider> keep in mind that vdpau and compositing both use the gpu, at the same time
[01:40] <jschall> bjsnider: if i turned throttling off it'd eat a solid 40 more watts
[01:40] <jschall> bjsnider: yeah, but so does running heroes of newerth (should use a LOT more gpu than vdpau)
[01:40] <jschall> bjsnider: and heroes of newerth runs like 200fps if i turn vsync off
[01:41] <bjsnider> i doubt it
[01:41] <bjsnider> h264 is awfully hard on any cpu/gpu
[01:41] <jschall> bjsnider: why can my phone play it then?
[01:41] <bjsnider> if we didn't have ffmpeg-mt your sandybridge cpu couldn't play it
[01:41] <jschall> bjsnider: my phone plays sintel on youtube with no tearing just fine, but my $1400 laptop can't, apparently
[01:42] <jschall> bjsnider: but then, my phone isn't playing it at 1080p
[01:42] <jschall> bjsnider: and my phone has hardware decoding
[01:43] <bjsnider> my q6600 kentsfield cannot play 1080p consistently without multithreading
[01:43] <jschall> bjsnider: my q6600/8800gts played all the content i wanted to consistently, but i had it clocked at 3.4ghz...
[01:44] <jschall> bjsnider: 2.8ghz was the lowest i ever had it clocked to over a long period of time...
[01:44] <jschall> bjsnider: and it played anything i wanted perfectly with kwin compositing on
[01:45] <jschall> bjsnider: and i don't think the 8800gts was doing vdpau... if so i wasn't using it because i always used vlc
[01:46] <jschall> anyway i have to do my precalc homework for tomorrow
[01:47] <jschall> wonder if i can sell a netbook with linux on it on craigslist
[01:47] <jschall> because there's basically no way to reload win7 starter on it...
[02:25] <cnd> bryceh, RAOF: I ran out of time to get to the X uploads today
[02:26] <cnd> I don't have anything big planned tomorrow, so I should be able to get to them
[02:26] <bryceh> cnd, ok
[02:27] <bryceh> heh, I had a system with two dual head monitors, hot swapped them for two new monitors (different brand but same resolution), rebooted and it came up mirrored.  Obviously.
[02:53] <cnd> bryceh, RAOF, tjaalton, Sarvatt: I just sent a couple patch series out to xorg-devel
[02:53] <cnd> they enable proper clickpad support
[02:54] <cnd> I want to get this into precise
[02:54] <cnd> I would suggest putting everything up through the first series (the synaptics touch handling) into precise asap (i.e. tomorrow)
[02:55] <cnd> I can put the second series into a ppa and put out a CFT
[02:55] <bryceh> cnd, you sound a lot more confident than earlier!  :-)
[02:55] <cnd> bryceh, I was afraid the motion issue was unresolvable
[02:55] <cnd> but it turns out to just be a bad algo
[02:56]  * bryceh nods
[02:56] <cnd> before I put out a CFT, if you could smoke test it I would appreciate it
[02:56] <cnd> git://people.freedesktop.org/~cndougla/xf86-input-synaptics branch clickpad-synaptics-ubuntu
[02:57] <cnd> bryceh, it should help your netbook
[02:57] <bryceh> heh, the one computer I *haven't* updated so far today
[02:57] <cnd> and I bet the four of you have a few clickpads around
[02:57] <cnd> heh
[02:57] <bryceh> cnd, ok will do
[02:58] <bryceh> seriously my fibre has been on fire today
[02:58] <cnd> note that you will need to manually set the "Synaptics ClickPad" property to 1
[02:58] <cnd> in most cases
[03:01] <RAOF> It's not possible to detect that easily?  Bah.
[03:02] <cnd> RAOF, it is, if the kernel driver tells us
[03:02] <cnd> I need to add it to the magic trackpad driver
[03:02] <RAOF> Fair enough.
[03:02] <cnd> but I don't know what the state of it all is for synaptics
[03:02] <cnd> the detection logic is in the synaptics patch set
[03:03] <cnd> it's just not likely that people will have drivers that tell us they're clickpads
[03:04] <cnd> RAOF, actually, maybe most synaptics clickpads will work OOTB
[03:04] <cnd> I see support for setting the clickpad property in the kernel driver
[03:04] <cnd> I think it's just my specific trackpad on my older dell netbook that doesn't appear to the driver to be a clickpad
[03:05] <cnd> ok, off to get dinner
[03:14] <bryceh> cnd, make check fails
[03:14] <bryceh> make[2]: Entering directory `/home/bryce/ubuntu/xserver-xorg-input-synaptics/clickpad-synaptics-ubuntu/test'
[03:14] <bryceh> /bin/bash: line 5: 28107 Segmentation fault      (core dumped) ${dir}$tst
[03:14] <bryceh> FAIL: eventcomm-test
[03:31] <cnd> bryceh, hmm. interesting
[03:32] <RAOF> That's a symbol-mismatch, right?
[03:33] <cnd> RAOF, bryceh, no, it's an issue with the new mechanism for instantiating SynapticsHwState
[03:33] <cnd> I missed that the test program needs to be updated
[03:35] <cnd> bryceh, thanks for catching it, I'll fix it tomorrow
[03:35] <cnd> it's not hard to fix, but not something I can fix in 30 seconds
[03:36] <bryceh> no prob, I worked around it (just hacked out the test)
[03:36] <bryceh> I've got it installed and will play with it this evening while watching Dexter
[03:37] <bryceh> cnd, are there any lp#'s associated with this work?
[03:38] <bryceh> well I already see a problem
[03:39] <bryceh> cnd, with one finger moving, if a second finger happens to touch the touchpad, the pointer stops dead
[03:40] <bryceh> hmm, including if second finger is just carefully touching the left mouse button.  IOW drag and drop becomes impossible.
[03:40] <bryceh> so.. no dexter for the netbook
[03:41] <cnd> bryceh, no lp#s
[03:41] <cnd> bryceh, drag and drop should work...
[03:41] <cnd> that's the point of the clickpad support
[03:42] <cnd> check to make sure the "Synaptics ClickPad" property is set to 1
[03:42] <bryceh> oh, right!
[03:44] <cnd> bryceh: testing to see if I'm connected on my iPad
[03:45] <cnd> do you see this?
[03:45] <RAOF> Yes.
[03:45] <cnd> k
[03:49] <cnd> bryceh: did setting the property fix things?
[03:52] <bryceh> cnd, no, mouse cursor doesn't work at all
[03:52] <bryceh> cnd, after setting the property in xorg.conf.d
[03:53] <cnd> bryceh: how did you set the property?
[03:54] <cnd> I suggest using xinput as it's faster to test
[03:54] <bryceh> ah
[03:54] <bryceh> well, wife's calling me to dinner so I'm out of time
[03:54] <cnd> if you do xinput list-props <device id> it will show it
[03:54] <cnd> and set-prop to change it
[03:55] <cnd> thanks for trying though... I hope it works better when you try again
[03:57] <bryceh> cnd, alright lets try
[03:57] <bryceh>         Synaptics ClickPad (266)       1
[03:57] <bryceh> still, same behavior
[04:00] <cnd> hmmm...
[04:00] <cnd> so when you put two touches down, the pointer stops moving
[04:00] <bryceh> right
[04:01] <cnd> when you press a button, it still doesn't move?
[04:01] <bryceh> I've put packages up of what I used at https://launchpad.net/~bryce/+archive/clickpad-synaptics-ubuntu
[04:01] <cnd> when two touches are down but the button isn't pressed, it will emit scroll events (if enabled) or do nothing
[04:01] <bryceh> cnd, yes if I depress the button it will begin moving again
[04:02] <bryceh> if I just touch the button, it stops
[04:02] <cnd> bryceh, ahh, so click and drag works, right?
[04:02] <bryceh> anyway, gotta go
[04:02] <cnd> k
[07:27] <tjaalton> syncing pixman
[07:27] <tjaalton> ..later
[07:27] <tjaalton> not possible yet it seems
[08:07] <tjaalton> whoa, xorg dev position open?
[08:11] <tjaalton> not one but two..
[09:50] <tjaalton> amazing what a piece of hair in front of the mouse laser does to it's accuracy..
[11:30] <jschall> RAOF: btw, flash 11.2 beta fixed my screen tearing
[12:32] <tjaalton> checking for glXCreateContext in -lGL... no
[12:33] <tjaalton> why the #&%#¤ does it fail on sbuild but not pbuilder
[12:45] <tjaalton> don't care anymore, ship it
[12:45] <tjaalton> (gstreamer-vaapi)
[15:37] <tjaalton> whee, patch to fix scrolling from whot.. will test asap
[15:50] <tjaalton> cnd: whot posted a patch to fix bug 925785 and I verified it works
[15:50] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 925785 in xorg-server (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Starting to scroll is erratic with edge scrolling on touchpad or mouse scrollwheels (affects: 10) (heat: 50)" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/925785
[15:50] <cnd> tjaalton, ok, I'll be sure it's folded into the packages I upload today
[15:51] <tjaalton> cnd: I can add the patch, have it locally
[15:52] <cnd> tjaalton, if you don't mind, I'd rather add it
[15:52] <tjaalton> ok
[15:52] <tjaalton> sure :)
[15:52] <cnd> so I can keep track of what are patches vs what are merged from upstream
[15:52] <tjaalton> yeah this is pretty fresh (posted 20min ago), so probably not upstream yet
[15:53] <cnd> hasn't come across xorg-devel yet even :)
[15:54] <tjaalton> nope, took it from bugzilla
[15:55] <tjaalton> now to see if a newer kernel fixes nouveau on my laptop..
[15:56] <tjaalton> it's failing to use nouveau dri, falling back on swrast
[15:56] <tjaalton> promising, plymouth splash
[15:57] <tjaalton> nah, "error creating GPU channel: -19"
[15:58] <tjaalton> ok, accel disabled by default
[15:59] <cnd> tjaalton, do you have a clickpad?
[15:59] <cnd> Sarvatt, you too?
[15:59] <tjaalton> cnd: no, just the thinkpad
[15:59] <cnd> ok
[15:59] <tjaalton> Sarvatt does
[15:59] <tjaalton> macbook air
[16:11] <Sarvatt> this isnt a clickpad
[16:11] <tjaalton> oh
[16:11] <Sarvatt> broadcom BCM5974 touchpad
[16:11] <tjaalton> what's a clickpad then?
[16:11] <Sarvatt> actual synaptics touchpads that click
[16:12] <Sarvatt> this just uses the synaptics driver
[16:12] <tjaalton> ok
[16:12] <Sarvatt> i dont even have any systems with real synaptics touchpads in them anymore, crazy
[17:13] <cnd> Sarvatt, no, I'm meaning clickpad in the functional sense
[17:14] <cnd> so macbook trackpad counts
[17:14] <cnd> not in the Synaptics ClickPad (R) sense
[17:14] <Sarvatt> oh! let me read the scrollback and see what ya asked
[17:14] <cnd> Sarvatt, install the package from https://launchpad.net/~bryce/+archive/clickpad-synaptics-ubuntu
[17:15] <cnd> then, use xinput to set the "Synaptics ClickPad" property to 1 if it's not already
[17:15] <cnd> then see if you can drag and drop with two fingers
[17:15] <cnd> and if everything else seems sane
[17:16] <bryce> cnd, from last night, yes click and drag worked.  Anything else need tested?
[17:16] <Sarvatt> cnd: going to invalidate any testing if i use it against 1.12?
[17:16] <Sarvatt> ah it doesn't even build against 1.12
[17:16] <Sarvatt> damn, gonna take me about 45 minutes to remove edgers
[17:16] <cnd> Sarvatt, you can fetch from git and build from sources
[17:16] <cnd> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/~cndougla/xf86-input-synaptics
[17:17] <Sarvatt> i did last night and it failed the same way
[17:17] <cnd> branch clickpad-synaptics
[17:17] <Sarvatt> oh clickpad-synaptics, i used the ubuntu one
[17:17] <cnd> yeah, the ubuntu one has two patches for the 1.11 backport
[17:17] <bryce> cnd, what's the cleanest way to install (and uninstall) it if you build from source?
[17:17] <cnd> bryce, I usually use --prefix=/usr
[17:17] <cnd> that way when I reinstall the dpkg everything is overwritten
[17:18] <cnd> bryce, does the trackpad now behave as you expect?
[17:18] <cnd> any issues?
[17:18] <cnd> my hope is this makes these devices much saner
[17:19] <bryce> cnd, well there's the issue that when both fingers are on the pad, the pointer does not move
[17:19] <cnd> bryce, that's expected
[17:19] <cnd> it will either perform scrolling or do nothing
[17:19] <cnd> depending on your scroll options
[17:19] <cnd> or send touch events
[17:19] <bryce> cnd, ah, there's a way to configure that?
[17:20] <bryce> like, a way to get it to just ignore the second mouse touch?
[17:20] <cnd> bryce, in gtk mouse settings you can enable two-touch scrolling
[17:20] <cnd> bryce, are you asking if there's a way to make the cursor move when you have two touches on the device?
[17:20] <Sarvatt> override_dh_auto_test:
[17:20] <Sarvatt>         dh_auto_test || echo "Test suite failure, but keeping on anyway"
[17:20] <Sarvatt>  ftw
[17:20] <bryce> cnd, that's correct
[17:21] <cnd> bryce, no, that's not possible anymore
[17:21] <cnd> it would interfere with sending touch events
[17:21] <cnd> Sarvatt, yeah, I'm going to fix that today
[17:21] <cnd> bryce, did you often do that?
[17:21] <cnd> move the cursor with two touches?
[17:22] <bryce> cnd, yes, typically when I'm going to click something I'll rest my finger momentarily on the button without pressing it while I finish moving the pointer with my other finger
[17:23] <bryce> with this setting, I find the cursor halting suddenly
[17:23] <cnd> bryce, hmmm... do you think it's a problem if that's not possible anymore?
[17:23] <cnd> or will people get used to it?
[17:24] <bryce> also, the way the netbook works I often have stray touches while cursoring, but I'd have to examine my usage more
[17:24] <bryce> it does not feel to me like something people would get used to, it feels more like a severe bug
[17:25] <cnd> hmm...
[17:25] <bryce> I do have to say I haven't seen the weird random go-to-0,0 problem that it had before
[17:25] <cnd> I don't think I ever used my trackpad like that
[17:26] <cnd> I always hover my button finger above the trackpad
[17:26] <cnd> and then press when I'm in the right spot
[17:26] <cnd> maybe that's because I always have two-touch scrolling enabled
[17:26] <cnd> in previous versions, if you had two-touch scrolling enabled you'd have the same issue
[17:27] <cnd> the pointer would stop as soon as you touch with the second finger
[17:29] <Sarvatt> first really annoying thing is i can't move while clicking when clickpad is enabled
[17:29] <Sarvatt> so no highlighting text
[17:30] <bryce> Sarvatt, did you set the xinput setting?
[17:30] <Sarvatt> yeah
[17:30] <Sarvatt> it was fine without it set
[17:30] <bryce> hmm
[17:30] <bryce> I had that problem before I changed the setting, but it worked (more or less) after
[17:30] <Sarvatt> two finger click doesn't right click
[17:30] <Sarvatt> so cant right click at all
[17:31] <cnd> Sarvatt, can you press with one finger and drag?
[17:31] <Sarvatt> no, pointer doesn't move
[17:31] <cnd> what about pressing with one finger and dragging with a second?
[17:31] <Sarvatt> nothing
[17:32] <bryce> two finger click works here for bringing up the context menu
[17:32] <Sarvatt> it all works properly on the mac trackpads without clickpad turned on
[17:32] <cnd> Sarvatt, hmm... I'll play around some more here
[17:32] <cnd> it works fine on the magic trackpad
[17:33] <cnd> I haven't tested on my macbook
[17:33] <cnd> I assumed it would work
[17:37] <Sarvatt> http://ubuntuone.com/1uzkRjwx0x4JtGpM30pm47
[17:47] <Sarvatt> why are we changing the default speed in a patch?
[17:47] <Sarvatt> had to adjust it because it was way too slow
[19:02] <cnd> Sarvatt, it's likely a side effect of a change, which we had patched in a speed change for a month ago
[19:02] <cnd> I think when I package stuff up it will be resolved
[21:22] <Sarvatt> err, whats the deal with xbitmap and xbitmaps?
[21:23] <Sarvatt> hmm
[21:23] <Sarvatt> x11-apps in debian recommends: xbitmap but the package is xbitmaps it looks like
[21:23] <bryce> bug #930176
[21:23] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 930176 in x11-apps (Ubuntu) "x11-apps recommends xbitmap but it doesn't exist (xbitmaps is in the archive) (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/930176
[21:23] <Sarvatt> yeah
[21:23] <Sarvatt> was just looking at that
[21:24] <bryce> I think we dropped it a while back
[21:24] <Sarvatt> was xbitmap a separate package from xbitmaps?
[21:25] <Sarvatt> it looks like just a typo
[21:25] <bryce> maybe
[21:25] <bryce> when I first joined the X apps were all packaged individually
[21:26] <bryce> tbh I don't remember there ever being an 'xbitmap' tho
[21:27] <Sarvatt> asking in debian-x
[21:47] <jschall> if i run xset -q, i see dpms is randomly getting reset to 180 270 360. How can i fix this? It's really annoying, I've set my distro's power management to not blank the screen when power is connected.  i've grepped /usr and /etc for dpms and come up with nothing that seemed relevant. I can probably fix it by just setting up a cron job to xset -dpms every minute but I'd like to find the source of the problem. on kubuntu, btw
[22:01] <jschall> how can i set nvidia's nologo option in 11.10? isn't xorg.conf deprecated?
[22:05] <broder> jschall: no, it's just not needed by default. you can still create an /etc/X11/xorg.conf file
[23:42] <bryceh> I'm going to delete the canonical-xorg team, since we have canonical-x for the same purpose
[23:43] <bryceh> I vaguely recall canonical-xorg was set up so I could be included in dell hardware bug reports
[23:43] <bryceh> however these days those issues are handled by hwe and oem groups
[23:44] <bryceh> if there's value to having us on that, might want to have the dell team sub canonical-x instead
[23:53] <cnd> argh... the allowevents struct stuff seems to be broken...
[23:55] <bryceh> boom, canonical-xorg gone.


[06:15] <Nagaraja> Hai alla
[06:17] <Nagaraja> hai
[18:42] <pleia2> Pendulum: did you still want your article up on the fridge?
[19:23] <akgraner> pleia2, thanks!  I just haven't gotten back around to it yet :-)
[19:23] <akgraner> just walked back in the door   - playing taxi this week has me all out of sorts :-/
[19:34] <Pendulum> pleia2: yes! thanks!
[19:34] <pleia2> akgraner: I'll get it put on the fridge and you can review, if that's ok
[19:34]  * pleia2 does that
[19:34] <akgraner> awesome!
[19:34] <akgraner> Thank you
[19:34] <akgraner> my kids are running me ragged this week
[19:35] <akgraner> I am counting down the months til becca can drive herself and her brother
[19:42] <pleia2> akgraner: can you review real quick? http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/2084
[19:43] <akgraner> sure
[19:43]  * pleia2 adds link to accessibility team
[19:45] <akgraner> looks good :-) Thank you!!!
[19:45] <pleia2> k, thanks for reviewing :)
[19:49] <akgraner> pleia2, http://fullcirclemagazine.org/2010/07/15/full-circle-podcast-10-trawling-the-internet-for-a-goat-festival/
[19:50] <akgraner> they worked in the goat festival in the title :-)
[19:50] <pleia2> haha, excellent
[19:50] <akgraner> it's their podcast - I rambled but I had fun :-)
[19:57] <zkriesse> how's it goin newsies?
[20:25] <MichealH> zkriesse: Fine :)
[20:33] <MichealH> /cycle
[20:34] <MichealH> Ooops
[20:41] <pleia2> quick question, the proper way for *us* to suggest things now is not -news-team or mentioning it here or using that loco form to the google doc, but using http://ietherpad.com/UWN-Ideas ?
[20:43] <pleia2> (just want to make sure I'm doing it the right way :))
[20:44] <akgraner> pleia2, what every way is easier for them - :-)  I would prefer the ideas page though
[20:45] <pleia2> ok, thanks
[21:21] <akgraner> pleia2, I
[21:21] <akgraner> let me try this again
[21:21] <akgraner> pleia2, I'll remove the section titles
[21:21] <akgraner> so it confuse people where to put stuff
[21:23] <pleia2> akgraner: on the etherpad?
[21:24] <akgraner> the etherpad is just blank and when I read the links I move them to below a line
[21:24] <akgraner> the wiki ideas page was what I was thinking of
[21:24] <akgraner> let me show ya
[21:25] <akgraner> pleia2, here is the ideas wiki - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Ideas  (most people hate this)
[21:25] <pleia2> oh ok
[21:25] <akgraner> and they hate emailing the public mailing list
[21:25]  * pleia2 nods
[21:26] <akgraner> here is the etherpad - http://ietherpad.com/UWN-Ideas
[21:26] <akgraner> which is fine and probably easier for everyone
[21:27] <pleia2> yeah, just want to make sure if we're using all these things they're all being checked and we know which is preferred (so if someone drops by here I know where to pop their recommendation in to)
[21:27] <akgraner> I check them all each sunday
[21:27] <pleia2> great :)
[21:27] <akgraner> and clear them all out when I publish
[21:27]  * pleia2 nods
[21:28] <akgraner> so we can start with a clean slate each week
[21:28] <akgraner> but here is the important paragraph though so no one gets their feelings hurt
[21:28] <akgraner> Let us know what is going on in the Ubuntu world. Please do not use this as a place to get hits on your website, as we do not pimp for google ads. Sorry.
[21:28] <akgraner> Thank you for taking time to add content to the Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter the current newsletter in progress is - Issue 202 July 11th - 17th, 2010 - and it will be published on Sunday, July 18th, 2010. After this issue is published we will review the ideas page clear all content that either has been included or is Overcome by Events.
[21:28] <akgraner> We wish we could include all content submitted, but that is not always possible. If your submission is not included, please know this is not a personal - it is a matter of time and content and what is relevant for each issue.
[21:28] <akgraner> Again, thank you in advance for your submissions!
[21:29] <pleia2> does this still work? https://spreadsheets0.google.com/viewform?formkey=dGVoUHFJdjg0OUo3UmpXTF9uTmtLTGc6MQ
[21:29] <akgraner> it does
[21:29] <pleia2> ok, cool
[21:29] <akgraner> some people have started submitting that way too
[21:30]  * pleia2 nods
[21:30] <akgraner> I really wanted to have as many ways as possible for people to submit ideas too - as I don't want to limit them - but I think I am at the limit of too many choices right now  - what do you think
[21:31] <pleia2> ok, so we have here, mailing list, /Ideas, goog spreadsheet, ietherpad
[21:31] <akgraner> as well as personally emailing me which people do as well
[21:32] <pleia2> yeah, it's good to strike a balance between "make it as easy as possible to submit" and "oh no I have to check a dozen different places for submissions each week, and if I miss one people are sad"
[21:32] <akgraner> I need to file an RT ticket to ask for<EMAIL_ADDRESS>or something and give people access to check that etc
[21:32] <pleia2> yeah, that would be nice too
[21:33] <akgraner> so if you look on the etherpad - I have a line on it - (the ideas one) and when I read it  - I move it below the line so people at least know the submission has been looked at
[21:33] <pleia2> although, people can submit stories to the fridge team via launchpad with: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-fridge/+contactuser
[21:33] <akgraner> yep
[21:34] <akgraner> I think that is plenty don't you?
[21:34] <pleia2> yep
[21:34] <akgraner> so OMG Ubuntu and the Fridge will be doing some cross posting
[21:34] <pleia2> my brain doesn't like the chat box, maybe put a note at the pop of the ietherpad saying "please put new stories above the line, they will be placed below the line once they have been reviewed"
[21:35] <akgraner> as they don't get the interviews like we do - but sometimes we don't get the breaking stuff in a timely manner
[21:35] <pleia2> yeah
[21:35]  * pleia2 updates pad
[21:35] <akgraner> so I talked to benjamin and joey - and I asked to to poke us when they have those stories
[21:35] <pleia2> something like that :)
[21:35] <akgraner> :-)
[21:35] <pleia2> great
[21:36] <akgraner> perfect
[21:36] <akgraner> sometimes I read the stories then as I add summaries from everyone - it's great to know if we need more content or something else is more pressing we have choices
[21:37]  * pleia2 nods
[21:37] <akgraner> brb Pete on the phone one sec
[21:49] <akgraner> pleia2, sorry about that
[21:50] <akgraner> last chance to talk to him before he gets on a plane to Prague
[21:50] <pleia2> no problem, I'm at work anyway so probably should be doing that anyway ;)
[21:51] <akgraner> ping me when your day ends - if you feel like yakking for a few minutes
[21:51] <akgraner> I want to test out my new headphones  (now that I charged them) :-)
[21:51] <pleia2> hehe, ok
[21:52] <akgraner> A friend gave me the logitech USB ones :-) they seem really cool