[14:57] <qense> hello
[19:51] <keri>  hello everyone
[19:51] <keri>  I finally got my website up and goind.  With help from Seb.  Can anyone go and see it and tell me what u think and look and see if any error with comma, sounds right and spelling please please please.
[19:51] <keri>   http://cockatiels4saleinkansas.com
[19:57] <keri>  i finally got my site up with help with Seb.  Here is the site.  http://cockatiel4saleinkansas.com  Need to see what people think and if my comma, spelling is right and sentence.   Thank you and Please, Please


[03:21] <skellat> Oh, so this is why I hear thunder outside: http://alerts.weather.gov/cap/wwacapget.php?x=OH124F06561D20.SpecialWeatherStatement.124F06564368OH.CLESPSCLE.08b6147807fe44ca146b16bf0f5be28e
[03:21] <jenni> http://j.mp/ZZ6Cj2
[03:21] <skellat> jenni: Is that the best you can do?
[03:21] <jenni> skellat: Yes.
[03:29] <skellat> For Tuesday night: http://www.slideshare.net/alpacaherder/ohio-lo-co-june-2013-business-meeting
[03:29] <jenni> [ Ubuntu Ohio June 2013 Business Meeting ] - http://j.mp/ZZ7nsy
[12:45] <thafreak> annnnnnd I'm back
[12:45] <thafreak> so after ripping up carpet and moving my "office", I fell ill for a day or two...
[12:45] <thafreak> that was probably the shittiest week ever
[12:46] <thafreak> oops ....sorry for the language :)
[12:52] <jrgifford> Unit193: thafreak emacs mail is better. ;)
[12:55] <paultag> http://deb.io/ ← until I can find a better use for it
[12:55] <jenni> [ Ceci n'est pas une -EPIPE ] - http://deb.io
[12:55] <paultag> Oh shit, name of title is bad
[12:56] <paultag> there.
[13:26] <thafreak> emacs...
[13:26] <thafreak> is there a vi mail?
[13:26] <thafreak> or vim mail actually
[13:26] <paultag> mutt
[14:45] <skellat> Oh, goodie: http://starbeacon.com/local/x493353841/Counterfeit-money-being-passed-in-county
[14:45] <jenni> [ Counterfeit money being passed in county » Local News » The Star Beacon; Ashtabula, Ohio ] - http://j.mp/17jpSx9
[21:27] <skellat> Hmm: http://xkcd.com/919/
[21:27] <jenni> [ xkcd: Tween Bromance ] - http://j.mp/1bSTiyQ
[23:17] <drkokandy> I remember a day when Slideshare didn't require you to share your Facebook or LinkedIn information to download a presentation
[23:18] <skellat> drkokandy: It shouldn't require that
[23:19] <skellat> drkokandy: Do you have a valid address on LP?  I'll e-mail it to ya really quick if you wish.
[23:19] <drkokandy> It does. I can either log in with Facebook, log in with LinkedIn, or sign in with an existing account. if you go to register a new account, I have only 2 options - connect with Facebook or connect with LinkedIn
[23:19] <drkokandy> I might?
[23:20] <skellat> What's your LP username?
[23:20] <skellat> LP: Launchpad
[23:21] <drkokandy> yes, it is confirmed
[23:21] <drkokandy> drkokandy, same as here
[23:21] <skellat> Cool
[23:22] <skellat> Subject line should say "Slides for tonight" and the attachment is named Business.pdf
[23:22] <drkokandy> thanks, I have it
[23:22] <skellat> I've got my copy printed out sitting next to me
[23:25]  * skellat notes the final puzzle is up on Wheel of Fortune
[23:25] <SonikkuAmerica> What's the category?
[23:26] <skellat> No, final contestant.  She missed it.  Puzzle was "Make A Vow" and she lost out on winning $35k
[23:27] <SonikkuAmerica> Dang.
[23:30] <skellat> Okay, I call the clock as 7:30 PM
[23:30] <skellat> Are we ready for tonight's meeting?
[23:30]  * drkokandy is present and ready
[23:30] <skellat> Raise your hand if you are attending tonight's meeting
[23:31] <skellat> o/
[23:31] <drkokandy> o/
[23:32] <skellat> Alrighty.  Since there is no set requirement for quorum in Ubuntu Ohio we can begin and people can join in as they find they are able.
[23:32] <skellat> Good evening friends and welcome to the June 2013 business meeting for Ubuntu Ohio.
[23:32] <skellat> It will be very handy to have the slide deck either open or printed out so you can follow along in tonight's proceedings.  You can reach the slides on slideshare at http://www.slideshare.net/alpacaherder/ohio-lo-co-june-2013-business-meeting
[23:32] <jenni> [ Ubuntu Ohio June 2013 Business Meeting ] - http://j.mp/ZZ7nsy
[23:32] <skellat> Jono Bacon, the Ubuntu Community Manager, was invited to tonight's proceedings but had to pass on the invitation.  I note from the outset that I am adding an item under "Any Other Business" relative to the story today in Ars Technica concerning the new Carrier Advisory Group for Ubuntu Phone.  SEE: http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/06/ubuntu-phone-os-has-eight-carriers-signed-on-to-boost-development/
[23:32] <jenni> [ Ubuntu phone OS has eight carriers signed on to boost development | Ars Technica ] - http://j.mp/14IJAyw
[23:33] <skellat> Other items may be raised during "Any Other Business"
[23:33] <skellat> As we note from the second slide, not everything is covered in the slides and channel has to be watched too
[23:34] <skellat> For example, the Carrier Advisory Group matter only came up this morning.
[23:34] <skellat> Okay, we're moving to Item #1 -- Appointment of Deputy
[23:34] <skellat> As noted in the slide, I cannot sign the contract for the table for Ohio Linux Fest 2013
[23:34] <skellat> Simply put I am coming up on the one year anniversary of starting unemployment
[23:35] <skellat> The Ohio Department of Job and Family Services is taking an active hand now directing me to apply for jobs
[23:35] <skellat> Since I'm not exactly sure where I'll be in September...I'd feel more comfortable having somebody else sign the contract in my stead
[23:35] <skellat> Unless drkokandy wants to take this up, this may need to be bound over to the mailing list for further consideration
[23:36] <skellat> What discussion do we have for this?
[23:37] <drkokandy> I think it would be good to take this to the mailing list, because I'm not sure whether I'll be available for Ohio Linux Fest either, and I would prefer to look at the contract before anything
[23:37] <skellat> Yeah
[23:37] <drkokandy> is that something that can be shared with the group?
[23:37] <skellat> The call can be.  The mailing list doesn't accept attachments.  I could throw it in my Ubuntu One storage space, though.
[23:38] <skellat> Okay, the matter will be bound over to the mailing list for further action that may or may not occur
[23:38] <drkokandy> then that should work :-) I'm hoping to be at Ohio Linux Fest, but before that I'd want to know what I'm agreeing to
[23:39] <paultag> OLF!
[23:39] <skellat> drkokandy: It works.  I've got the contract text here.  I'll throw it in my U1 space tonight and send an e-mail later.
[23:40] <skellat> Just got an e-mail from John Sullivan at FSF saying I wasn't selected for a position I applied for there...but I have had stuff like that happening for over 40 weeks now.
[23:40] <skellat> Okay, moving on to Item #2 -- Further Explanation of Membership Shepherding Program
[23:41] <skellat> The slides say a bit about this.
[23:41] <skellat> In major part, Ohio has some fairly active members
[23:41] <skellat> After all, jrgifford undertakes leadership with AskUbuntu
[23:41] <skellat> Unit193 does great work helping with the work of IRC
[23:42] <skellat> jacob works on things for forums
[23:42] <skellat> The key thing we need to have is for that to grow
[23:43] <skellat> If we were able to hit 10+ Ubuntu Members, I would feel very comfortable then calling for elections for a new Council to replace me
[23:43] <paultag> have we ever hit 10+ Ubuntu members?
[23:43] <skellat> No
[23:43] <skellat> Not according to the script Unit193 made for me
[23:43] <Unit193> I didn't exactly make it.
[23:44] <skellat> Unit193: The one you sent me
[23:44] <Unit193> I know which one. :P
[23:44] <skellat> Right now, in terms of number of Ubuntu Members, we're on par with Michigan while most neighboring states have lower numbers or have none.
[23:45] <paultag> Ohio was one of the most Ubuntu member packed for a long time.
[23:45] <Unit193> So in fairly good standing.
[23:45] <paultag> Might have been #1 in the US for a while.
[23:45] <skellat> paultag: US-wide the score is a little over 150
[23:45] <paultag> So, not #1
[23:46] <skellat> No, that's the total number of Ubuntu Members who also are members of US Teams project
[23:47] <skellat> Planet-wide, Ubuntu Members holds at 769 members
[23:47] <skellat> The recently announced membership certificate is a new facet to the matter where Mark Shuttleworth will be signing and sending out certificates to new members.
[23:48] <jrgifford> skellat: indeed, I do.
[23:49] <skellat> For us in terms of members, we still hold at 6 with the biggest concentration on an arc running from Mansfield to Cleveland to Ashtabula.
[23:49] <jrgifford> Interesting on the arc
[23:49] <skellat> Yeah
[23:49] <paultag> sounds like that just matches population roughly
[23:50] <paultag> cbus has one, right?
[23:50] <paultag> (and chase left the state, right?)
[23:50] <skellat> Columbus has jacob
[23:50] <skellat> Chase is gone
[23:50] <paultag> and gilbert ?
[23:50] <paultag> Oh, he's not an Ubuntu'er.
[23:50] <paultag> Wat.
[23:50] <skellat> Exactly
[23:51] <skellat> If there is anybody you know who you would like to help move along to Membership, in any of its various forms, speak up and encourage them
[23:51] <skellat> Membership shows continuing participation within Ubuntu
[23:51] <Unit193> (In theory)
[23:51] <skellat> Unit193: Indeed
[23:52] <skellat> For boosting activity, it is one road we can try to go down
[23:52] <skellat> There were a few discussions at the last vUDS about boosting participation...this is the only idea out there and I'm the one trying it out
[23:52]  * skellat can be blamed for making the proposal in the first place
[23:53] <skellat> This is mostly an advisory portion to keep in mind
[23:53] <skellat> Encourage others to get involved
[23:53] <skellat> Encouragement is hard to do
[23:53] <skellat> But we gotta try
[23:53] <skellat> Is there any further discussion for Item #2?
[23:54] <jrgifford> skellat: hence why I'm recommending those who installed Ubuntu at our lug meeting join the loco
[23:54] <skellat> \o/
[23:54] <Unit193> jrgifford: How's the LUG going?
[23:54] <jrgifford> Unit193: it's OK. I need to push it more, need another presenter than myself
[23:55] <skellat> jrgifford: If these gas prices come down a little I may be able to sneak down to Cuyahoga County in a couple weeks
[23:56] <jrgifford> skellat: let me know, I'll be around. :)
[23:56] <skellat> Okay
[23:56] <skellat> Anything else for Item #2?
[23:57] <skellat> Okay, moving on to Item #3
[23:57] <skellat> Communications
[23:57] <jrgifford> Anyway, my apologies for being late and slow, I've had a busy day in general.
[23:57] <jrgifford> Yay! Communicating!
[23:57] <skellat> jrgifford: It is okay
[23:58] <skellat> We've got a little under half of the LoCo actually receiving mailing list posts
[23:58] <skellat> The forum is pretty much dead
[23:58] <skellat> The test discourse instance isn't approaching production status yet
[23:58] <jrgifford> So, the thought is the mailing list is silent, and other than like, 4-5 of us + paultag, nobody on irc.
[23:58] <jenni> oh baby
[23:58] <jrgifford> skellat: but I know jcastro, he's pushing it.
[23:58] <skellat> This is the most I've seen idling in IRC for a while
[23:59] <jrgifford> Nathan Osman is also pushing forward in the discourse stuff, as is marcoceppi. They'll have it running soon. :)
[23:59] <skellat> Yeah
[23:59] <jrgifford> In some respects, shoving it down people's throats. ;)


[17:55] <ronnoc> Hi all. Just curious - does anyone in ubuntu OH happen to run Kubuntu or KDE by chance?
[17:56] <paultag> ronnoc: I'm sure :)
[17:56] <paultag> why, what's up?
[17:58] <ronnoc> Hey paul! Hope life's treating you well. I'm just taking an informal survey. I'm getting involved in Kubuntu / KDE promo as was wondering if we had any obvious, more local, Ubuntu-KDE users. Really just for reference :)
[17:58] <paultag> ronnoc: life's not bad, thanks :)
[17:58] <paultag> ronnoc: cool, sounds awwesome
[17:58] <paultag> ronnoc: might try mailing the team ML? :)
[17:59] <Unit193> I'd answer here more than ML, but I only have it installed, never use it.
[18:00] <ronnoc> Yea I'm jumping into a meeting but I will do that a bit later on. I'd like to coordinate on some local Linux fests and such if I can garner support and see where it goes from there.
[18:00] <ronnoc> You know...helping put the "Community" on the newly coined status of Kubuntu :)
[18:00] <ronnoc> Unit193: I remember :p
[18:00] <paultag> totally :)
[18:00] <paultag> rock on ronnoc
[18:01] <paultag> let me know if you need help
[18:01] <ronnoc> paultag: always appreciated!
[18:03] <paultag> :)


[15:44] <mup> Bug #1445939 was opened: MAAS users (not admins) can see all node event logs. They only need to be allowed to see their own <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1445939>
[15:44] <mup> Bug #1445941 was opened: WebUI needs a filter for deployed OS <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1445941>
[15:44] <mup> Bug #1445942 was opened: Unable to determine purpose for node: '%s'", u'node-08.maas' <MAAS:Confirmed> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1445942>
[16:14] <mup> Bug #1445945 was opened: Node Event Log needs to store the user <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1445945>
[16:14] <mup> Bug #1445950 was opened: Proxy error when trying to delete a windows image <MAAS:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1445950>
[17:20] <mup> Bug #1445959 was opened: Deploying a different OS from node details page yields in always deploying ubuntu <MAAS:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1445959>
[17:20] <mup> Bug #1445962 was opened: when adding a virsh chassis via the WebUI, it is forcing me to input password <MAAS:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1445962>
[17:20] <mup> Bug #1445965 was opened: [1.8.0b3] Cannot probe-and-enlist hardware <MAAS:Confirmed> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1445965>
[20:18] <mup> Bug #1445990 was opened: juju destroy-environment released machines not deployed by juju <pyjuju:New> <MAAS:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1445990>
[20:18] <mup> Bug #1445993 was opened: Cannot power on machine in broken state <MAAS:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1445993>
[20:18] <mup> Bug #1445994 was opened: [1.8.0b3] Add Devices button has disappeared <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1445994>
[20:18] <mup> Bug #1445997 was opened: [1.8.0b3] Clicking on a device takes be back to node details page <MAAS:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1445997>
[20:18] <mup> Bug #1446000 was opened: [1.8.0b3] MAC is not shown in device list <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1446000>


[09:38] <JamesTait> Good morning all! :)
[12:35] <JoseExposito> Hi! The U1DB C implementation is ported to OS X?
[12:57] <ralsina_> JoseExposito: we have not tried it AFAIK but it's portable code
[12:57] <ralsina_> JoseExposito: and the build system supports OSX just fine
[12:59] <JoseExposito> ralsina_: I have made some modifications in the CMakeList.txt to build the target as universal and use the MacPorts deps
[12:59] <JoseExposito> ralsina_: But the libu1db.a is generated with this problems:
[12:59] <JoseExposito> -- Installing: /opt/local/lib/libu1db.a /usr/bin/ranlib: for architecture: i386 file: /opt/local/lib/libu1db.a(mkstemp_compat.c.o) has no symbols /usr/bin/ranlib: for architecture: x86_64 file: /opt/local/lib/libu1db.a(mkstemp_compat.c.o) has no symbols
[13:00] <JoseExposito> ralsina_: I'm trying to build the dylib too, using cmake -DBUILD_SHARED_LIBS=1
[13:00] <ralsina_> hmmmm
[13:00] <ralsina_> let me research 1'
[13:01] <JoseExposito> but I have link errors: http://pastebin.com/9hTAtVbs
[13:01] <ralsina_> JoseExposito: that file is not needed in mac
[13:01] <ralsina_> mkstemp_compat.c I mean
[13:04] <JoseExposito> it have a #ifdef _MSC_VER, that is not defined in my env
[13:05] <JoseExposito> ralsina_: Making a simple u1db_open() from a C++/Qt project in Ubuntu I have the same undefined symbols error
[13:05] <ralsina_> JoseExposito: exactly, it has the _MSC_VER because it's for VS
[13:05] <ralsina_> on windows
[13:06] <ralsina_> JoseExposito: the linking errors seem to indicate it's not finding every dependency for some reason
[13:09] <JoseExposito> ralsina_: Here my changes in CMakeList.txt: http://pastebin.com/zfiujFSe
[13:10] <ralsina_> JoseExposito: I don'thave a mac handy... can you come back in ~ 3 hours
[13:10] <ralsina_> ?
[13:10] <ralsina_> I'll have a mac guy here :-)
[13:10] <JoseExposito> ok, no problem!
[13:11] <JoseExposito> anyway, I have similar problems with the Ubuntu package... Lets mi a second to test it
[13:14] <JoseExposito> ooops more than a second, I haven't got my devel vm here...
[13:16] <ralsina_> JoseExposito: no rush :-)
[14:34] <dobey> hrmm, those things are something that should be set internally in cmake, and not something we should have to set, as i understand it
[14:55] <ralsina_> JoseExposito: you can change the includes and link directories via options, putting them in the CMakeLists is not a good idea
[14:55] <ralsina_> JoseExposito: you can even use ccmake to change them "with a ui"
[17:03] <JoseExposito> ralsina_: The same problem in Ubuntu, with apt-get install libu1db-dev
[17:04] <JoseExposito> when call u1db_open I have an undefined reference error, confirmed
[17:04] <ralsina_> JoseExposito: weird
[17:06] <JoseExposito> ralsina_: u1database *dbHandler = u1db_open("/home/jose/test.u1db");
[17:07] <JoseExposito> undefined reference to u1db_open(char const*)
[17:07] <JoseExposito> and of course LIBS += -lu1db in the .pro file
[19:51] <dobey> joshuahoover: hrmm, that is quite odd. that's on ubuntu 12.10, or 13.04? and with any PPA enabled? or built from trunk or something?
[19:51] <joshuahoover> ??
[20:00] <dobey> joshuahoover: oh sorry
[20:01] <joshuahoover> :)
[20:01] <dobey> joshuahoover: didn't pay attention to the tab complete. that was for jose, who is apparently not in the channel


[15:47] <nullack> Ping asac
[16:03] <brianporter> is cdimage.ubuntu.com down?
[16:06] <brianporter> nvmd, its up now


[12:49] <Burglaptop> mdke: didn't you want to speak to rob1?
[01:38] <mdke> Burglaptop, for like the last 3 weeks :)
[01:38] <mdke> rob1, you alive?
[01:47] <Bonzodog> um
[01:47] <Bonzodog> just before you go
[01:47] <mdke> hi
[01:48] <mdke> i never actually go to bed the first time anyway
[01:48] <Bonzodog> how do you feel about the doc?
[01:48] <Bonzodog> I'm going to write a mission statement on in
[01:48] <mdke> i hate the way you guys call it "the doc"
[01:48] <Bonzodog> and about what it does, where we go
[01:49] <mdke> otherwise, I've posted my feelings all over the forum
[01:49] <Bonzodog> it's easier than UDSF
[01:49] <mdke> i think it's a shame you guys don't use the Ubuntu wiki, but I accept your decision to keep it separate
[01:49] <KingBahamut> well actually
[01:49] <KingBahamut> UDSF has a cool Robotech like tone to it
[01:49] <KingBahamut> just doesnt roll out of the mouth quite right
[01:50] <mdke> heh
[01:50] <Bonzodog> well we feel that it serves a slightly different purpose than the wiki
[01:50] <KingBahamut> regardless, mark asked for an assesment in the meeting
[01:50] <KingBahamut> for the next meeting on it
[01:50] <KingBahamut> from both sides
[01:51] <Bonzodog> our's is more about pulling documentation off the forums - how-to's etc
[01:51] <KingBahamut> all we want to do is prep them for you guys
[01:51] <Bonzodog> and collecting this info in a central pool
[01:51] <Bonzodog> so there is a definitive archive
[01:51] <mdke> that can't be the only purpose
[01:52] <Bonzodog> think of it like - the main wiki is the 'notice board'
[01:52] <KingBahamut> it isnt
[01:52] <mdke> because otherwise, it would make sense to use https://wiki.ubuntu.com/forum
[01:52] <mdke> given that wikimedia uses a different markup
[01:52] <KingBahamut> there are other forms of data
[01:52] <Bonzodog> and we are more the 'library'
[01:52] <KingBahamut> that couldnt possibly fit an Official status
[01:52] <mdke> KingBahamut, the Ubuntu wiki is not "official" either, anyone can post to it
[01:53] <KingBahamut> no I understand that
[01:53] <KingBahamut> never questioned it
[01:53] <KingBahamut> again the original concept of putting it up was to move all pertinent forum data
[01:53] <KingBahamut> related to process in an organized fashion
[01:53] <Bonzodog> I like to think that we have a definitive role to play in archiving/selecting useful forum material
[01:53] <KingBahamut> Andrew aka Azz
[01:53] <mdke> as I said, I accept your decision
[01:53] <KingBahamut> and many others attempt to motivate users to move data to the wiki
[01:53] <KingBahamut> many dont
[01:53] <mdke> however, I personally believe that wiki.ubuntu.com/forum would suffice for that
[01:54] <Bonzodog> most if not all of our material relates to the forums
[01:54] <KingBahamut> is that data to be lost because the OP
[01:54] <mdke> Bonzodog, no it doesn't, it relates to Ubuntu
[01:54] <KingBahamut> doesnt want to move it?
[01:54] <mdke> KingBahamut, which data would be lost?
[01:54] <KingBahamut> Stuff written by users who would never move data to the wiki
[01:54] <KingBahamut> or want to
[01:55] <mdke> that argument applies to both wikis
[01:55] <mdke> in both cases you need people to do the moving
[01:55] <Bonzodog> this is why i think we can move data between both
[01:55] <KingBahamut> most of the people who move data to the UDSF do it with the realization it will go elsewhere later
[01:56] <mdke> KingBahamut, e.g.?
[01:56] <KingBahamut> many of them just dont want to put the effort into
[01:56] <mdke> Bonzodog, that is why a section of the main wiki would work better, because it is the same markup
[01:56] <Bonzodog> and we ourselves are linking back to the wiki in some cases
[01:56] <KingBahamut> moving it elsewhere
[01:56] <mdke> or alternatively, another moin server
[01:56] <KingBahamut> or that the opinion that I get
[01:56] <KingBahamut> I think its desireability
[01:56] <KingBahamut> but I have no control over the user
[01:56] <KingBahamut> so
[01:57] <KingBahamut> It should be easily feasible to allow the move of such data
[01:57] <KingBahamut> Ill even assign 3 members
[01:57] <KingBahamut> to do it
[01:57] <KingBahamut> once the liscensing issues are corrected if you like
[01:57] <mdke> ok, well you asked for my opinion. I don't want to keep talking about it because I've spent a lot of hours doing that already. My opinion is, go ahead, do it, but i personally would use the section of the wiki dedicated to the forum directly, without a separate go between in a different markup
[01:57] <KingBahamut> aye capn
[01:58] <Bonzodog> the teams have to work together
[01:58] <mdke> yeah, I'm glad that we can at least do that
[01:58] <KingBahamut> like I say
[01:58] <KingBahamut> Ill devote half my team
[01:58] <KingBahamut> to move the data
[01:58] <KingBahamut> for you guys
[01:58] <KingBahamut> I dont have an issue with that, and it will happen like it or not
[01:59] <KingBahamut> one way or the other
[01:59] <Bonzodog> and sabdfl has a good point about us maybe coming together in some way
[01:59] <KingBahamut> you should benefit from it just as much as I do
[01:59] <Bonzodog> so we are all part of the same team
[01:59] <KingBahamut> I dont want a stigma to occur just because a user prefers one place over the other
[01:59] <KingBahamut> in where he puts it
[02:00] <mdke> the thing is
[02:01] <mdke> instead of having half a team doing one thing and half a team moving that over to another place, you'd save a lot of time working on one thing
[02:01] <mdke> why can't we just combine our efforts?
[02:02] <Bonzodog> I think in the end that will have to happen, we need to find an easier way of doing it
[02:02] <mdke> i don't think the user would mind :) He'd get a better end result
[02:02] <mdke> Bonzodog, ok, let's wait and see how it goes
[02:02] <Bonzodog> I personally like mediawiki as software
[02:03] <Bonzodog> it is a ver powerful bit of kit
[02:03] <mdke> yeah it's nice
[02:03] <mdke> don't encourage Burglaptop though, keep it quiet
[02:03] <Bonzodog> wikipedia haven't helped because their management of it has been poor
[02:03] <Bonzodog> even though they wrote it
[02:04] <mdke> Moin is great too :)
[02:04] <Burglaptop> ugh
[02:04] <mdke> lots of great stuff
[02:04] <Bonzodog> I have noticed some basic similarities between the two markups
[02:04] <Bonzodog> as i have a wiki login myself
[02:05] <Bonzodog> for the main wiki
[02:05] <mdke> yeah they are both easy to learn
[02:05] <Bonzodog> have you seen my wiki homepage?
[02:05] <mdke> nope
[02:05] <Burglaptop> Bonzodog: they are similiar enough that a automatic script can convert them
[02:05] <Bonzodog> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bonzodog
[02:06] <mdke> i see it
[02:36] <Burglaptop> mdke: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikiflow
[02:37] <mdke> bookmarking, will read anon
[02:43] <Bonzodog> mdke; am talking to others about how define the UDSF
[02:43] <mdke> ok
[02:43] <Bonzodog> this is what we have come to
[02:43] <mdke> brainstorm it up on the wiki
[02:43] <Bonzodog> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knowledgebase
[02:44] <Bonzodog> is a basic definition of what people in UDSF see themselves doing..porting info from the forums, not written by themselves, and creating a knowledgebase
[02:44] <mdke> all wikis are knowledgebases
[02:45] <mdke> including the main Ubuntu one, if you want it to be
[02:45] <Burglaptop> Bonzodog: you should talk to jbailey, he has a similar idea for LP
[02:50] <Bonzodog> Kassetra is defining it nicely
[02:50] <Bonzodog> i'm talking to her at the moment
[02:50] <mdke> make sure you work in writing somewhere
[02:50] <Bonzodog> but shes in one hell of a mood
[02:51] <Bonzodog> I will do.
[02:51] <Bonzodog> in fact..
[02:51] <Bonzodog> hrm..
[02:51] <Bonzodog> can i create an item on the official wiki about it?
[02:51] <mdke> Bonzodog, you can create whatever you like in the wiki
[02:51] <mdke> especially this
[02:51] <Bonzodog> thank you
[03:06] <Bonzodog> reight, I'm off to bed
[03:06] <Bonzodog> will be back on in morning
[04:07] <Madpilot> hi all
[05:07] <Madpilot> Burglaptop: how're you doing?
[05:08] <Burglaptop> Madpilot: better
[05:08] <Burglaptop> boss wants to come to work tomorrow for a few hours before I go out to the staff party
[05:09] <Burglaptop> told him that travel is what hurts, not being anywhere
[05:09] <Madpilot> ouch.
[05:09] <Madpilot> if  you're still popping painkillers, the staff party might not be much fun either...
[05:09] <Burglaptop> I will speak to him tomorrow and hopefully he will understand
[05:10] <Burglaptop> the staff party will be a small affair at dinner
[05:10] <Burglaptop> nothing much
[05:10] <Madpilot> not a geekish boozefest? ;)
[05:10] <Burglaptop> nope
[05:10] <Burglaptop> all of our respective spouses will be there
[05:11] <Madpilot> how civilized
[05:15] <Madpilot> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDSF  <-- odd - but at least they're talking to the DocTeam now...
[05:30] <Burglaptop> Madpilot: yes, Bonzodog was in here previously
[05:31] <Burglaptop> Madpilot: there was a cool link I gave mdke earlier about workflow stuff that mediawiki was considering
[05:31] <Madpilot> the Wikiflow one?
[05:32] <Burglaptop> it was on meta.wikimedia.org
[05:32] <Madpilot> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikiflow <-- this one, right? about editing & such
[05:33] <Burglaptop> yep
[05:33] <Burglaptop> that is pretty much exactly what we need
[05:34] <Madpilot> looks interesting
[05:35] <Burglaptop> if we a simple script and two wiki engines, we could do some of what that does right away
[05:35] <Burglaptop> simply create the doc on doc.u.c and then publish it to help.u.c
[05:37] <Madpilot> yikes - that means running three wikis at the same time...
[05:37] <Burglaptop> yes
[05:37] <Burglaptop> one for the the develoers, which we don't care about
[05:37] <Burglaptop> and two for us
[05:38] <Burglaptop> but the help wiki would be restricted editing
[05:38] <Burglaptop> only the people in the wiki group on LP would be able to edit the article
[05:38] <Madpilot> so wiki.u.c would just be the devel/community stuff
[05:38] <Burglaptop> yes
[05:38] <Burglaptop> laptop testing team, etc
[05:38] <Burglaptop> sadly moin is actually easier to do a rough hack, becasue of the mysql database that mediawiki has
[05:39] <Madpilot> well, fire an email off to the list, and restart the "what do we do with the wiki" debate again ;)
[05:39] <Burglaptop> but mediawiki allows you turn off editing to all articles but allow anon editing to talk pages
[05:39] <Burglaptop> with one simple switch
[05:40] <Burglaptop> to be clear, the article would still be able to be edited by admins
[04:12] <jjesse> good morning, when someone has a chance could take a look at the new kubuntu/releasenotes i've uploaded and comment on them for me
[04:12] <jjesse> in trunk/kubuntu/releasenotes/C/releasenotes.xml
[04:12] <jjesse> it validates now
[05:47] <k31th> yo
[06:18] <jsgotangco> hey all
[06:43] <jjesse> jsgotangco: if you have a second can you review kubuntu/releasenotes ?
[06:50] <jsgotangco> jjesse, now?
[06:50] <jjesse> doesn't have to be now, but i'm uploaded a lot of changes for dapper
[06:50] <jjesse> so when you have some time
[06:51] <jjesse> still more changes will come, i have Riddell looking at them as well
[06:51] <jsgotangco> oh yeah, i saw the commit list
[06:52] <jsgotangco> ok i gotta sleep
[06:52] <jsgotangco> later
[06:52] <jjesse> thanks have a good sleep
[09:01] <mdke> aha
[09:01] <mdke> highvoltage, i noticed that https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingRecords is edubuntu specific, do you mind if I rename it? I'll fix the links
[09:05] <highvoltage> mdke: sure
[09:05] <highvoltage> mdke: you can let go now :)
[09:06] <mdke> oh sorry
[09:13] <jjesse> fear the master of the wiki
[09:14] <Madpilot> hmm?
[09:14] <jjesse> mdke was named master of the wiki in the community council meeting :)
[09:14] <jjesse> just giving him a hard time for his bugging highvoltage
[09:15] <Madpilot> cool - I had to be at work during the last one...
[09:19] <jjesse> :)
[09:21] <jjesse> no please let go, i want to leave work :)
[09:21] <theCore> mdke, as the master of the wiki, what are your new responsibilities ?
[09:21] <theCore> mdke, btw congrat:) !
[09:21] <jjesse> was sabdfl being sarcastic or???
[09:23] <theCore> s/asking/himself/
[09:24] <theCore> i'm just confused n/m
[09:24] <theCore> so, what is the joke ?
[09:25] <jjesse> yesterday at the community council meeting mdke was talking about the license on the wiki and safdl menioned something about mdke being the master of the wiki
[09:25] <jjesse> i don't know exactly what it means, but was giving him a hard time yesterday
[09:27] <theCore> ah :)
[09:29] <mdke> long night at work for you
[09:34] <highvoltage> mdke: sorry, lost my connection there for a while
[09:34] <highvoltage> mdke: i looked at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingRecords, but it seems that it's already removed?
[09:34] <mdke> yeah i moved it
[09:35] <highvoltage> ok, np.
[09:35] <Madpilot> mdke: without a redirect?
[09:35] <mdke> yes
[09:35] <mdke> i fixed all the links on the wiki
[09:36] <mdke> hmm
[09:36] <mdke> problem with a redirect is that the point of moving the page was that that page remains available for non-specific meeting records
[09:36] <Madpilot> there is a web outside the Ubuntu wiki, you know ;)
[09:36] <mdke> i'm aware of that yeah
[09:37] <Madpilot> don't make it an auto-redirect, just have a link to the new Edubuntu page, or other meeting-record pages
[09:37] <mdke> Madpilot, google has nothing on that page...
[09:37] <mdke> but maybe you're right
[09:38] <Madpilot> anyway, need to go. see you all later.
[09:38] <mdke> cya
[09:38] <mdke> I'll redirect it to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingAgendas
[09:38] <mdke> how about that?
[09:39] <Madpilot> sure
[09:39] <Madpilot> must go...
[09:46] <k31th> yo
[09:46] <k31th> long tme no speak
[09:46] <mdke> hello
[09:47] <k31th> i hope to do some doc work for ubuntu, if thats possible ?
[09:47] <mdke> you betcha
[09:47] <mdke> you know more or less how we work?
[09:47] <k31th> I have been using it mainly as a server and i will be using it more at work as soon as i take over in jan
[09:47] <mdke> ah cool
[09:48] <mdke> the serverguide needs plenty of love
[09:48] <k31th> then im stopping using centos and starting to use ubuntu
[09:48] <k31th> mdke: sweet
[09:48] <k31th> im not to sure how you guys work tbh im signed upto the mailing list tho
[09:48] <k31th> iv just had no time lately
[09:48] <mdke> ok cool
[09:49] <mdke> a good place to start is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamGettingStarted
[09:49] <k31th> when every thing calm down i can do some in my spare time at work between work :D
[09:50] <k31th> ahh nice ill have a read right after i decide how im going to backup all these remote boxes :D
[09:51] <k31th> i need to find a way of backing up MS Exchange Database with a OS backup utility :D
[09:51] <mdke> great
[09:52] <k31th> one thing i will do is write some thing for bacula in ubuntu atm it is not covered
[09:52] <k31th> as far as i know ?
[09:52] <mdke> what is that
[09:52] <k31th> its a OS backup util
[09:52] <mdke> aha
[09:53] <k31th> http://bacula.org
[09:53] <mdke> good candidate for a wiki page
[09:53] <k31th> mdke: wiki page would be pufect
[09:53] <k31th> purfect
[09:54] <mdke> ahhhh
[09:54] <mdke> k31th, you use dovecot?
[09:54] <k31th> i have used it
[09:55] <k31th> at work we are using some thing else. Iv used it set it up in ubuntu before
[09:55] <mdke> i've been struggling with it ;)
[09:55] <k31th> wat aspect of it ?
[09:55] <mdke> couldn't connect to the imaps server
[09:56] <mdke> just realised I had a stray sasl process blocking it
[09:56] <k31th> you check logs ?
[09:56] <k31th> ahh
[09:56] <mdke> the damn logs were totally empty
[09:56] <k31th> actually talking of imap
[09:56] <mdke> i was kinda wondering what the best imap server might be for Ubuntu
[09:56] <mdke> its the first time I've set up email
[09:57] <k31th> i tried conencting to our server at work the other day from home. and it just timed out ! thats using mozilla thunderbird as the client
[09:57] <mdke> brb just rebooting
[09:58] <k31th> mdke: ell iv used courier
[09:58] <k31th> well*
[10:00] <mdke> that is not in main on Ubuntu iirc
[10:06] <mdke> heard it's good tho
[10:08] <k31th> mdke: hang on
[10:08] <k31th> its univ i think?
[10:08] <mdke> yes
[10:08] <mdke> ok dovecot is working now anyhow :)
[10:09] <k31th> skills
[10:09] <k31th> im going to setup a mail server on this box when i have time!
[10:09] <k31th> mdke: not a backup guru by any chance are you ???
[10:10] <mdke> nope
[10:12] <jjesse> i just got qemu working today so i'm running dapper in a virtual session :)
[10:12] <jjesse> so i can stay live on the daily builds :)
[10:12] <mdke> rock
[10:26] <k31th> Odd my dad just came in asked me if i was going out i said no, and he gave me a beer
[11:09] <k31th> anyone alive ?
[11:09] <mdke> yus
[11:13] <manicka> yeah


[07:48] <tasdomas> hi
[07:49] <tasdomas> what is the purpose of amulet.raise_status(amulet.PASS) ?
[11:05] <Odd_Bloke> How large a disk does the bootstrap node need?
[11:05] <Odd_Bloke> Would 10GB be sufficient?
[11:31] <marcoceppi> Odd_Bloke: that should be sufficent
[11:31] <Odd_Bloke> marcoceppi: Great, thanks.
[11:31] <marcoceppi> tasdomas: that more or less exits the test and prints a PASS line
[11:32] <tasdomas> marcoceppi, I'm asking because if I did that, the test was marked as failed
[11:32] <marcoceppi> rofl, I don't think that's the intention of that command
[12:25] <Odd_Bloke> marcoceppi: If you have a few minutes: https://code.launchpad.net/~daniel-thewatkins/charm-helpers/lp1370053/+merge/260864
[12:26] <marcoceppi> Odd_Bloke: ack, taking a look
[12:31] <Odd_Bloke> marcoceppi: Thanks muchly!
[12:31] <Odd_Bloke> That should let me sort out issues in the ubuntu-repository-cache merge proposals.
[12:31] <Odd_Bloke> Then you can merge those. ;)
[12:31] <marcoceppi> \o/
[12:36] <tasdomas> marcoceppi, bundletester is a great tool!
[12:37] <marcoceppi> tasdomas: it is very nice, we hope to have it be what `charm test` and `juju test` run in the near future
[12:39] <tasdomas> marcoceppi, that would be nice - charm test fails for me (using local provider)
[12:46] <coreycb> jamespage, hey, can you take a look at my response to your comment here?  A charm-helpers fix is needed for upgrade-charm:  https://code.launchpad.net/~corey.bryant/charms/trusty/quantum-gateway/end-of-life/+merge/265035
[13:12] <beisner> marcoceppi, it appears that amulet.SKIP is unexpectedly invoking --set-e behavior.  end result is a failed test run instead of a single skipped test.  I don't generally use amulet.SKIP or amulet.PASS explicitly, but dosaboy has a percona-cluster amulet test in flight which does, and that's where we are seeing this.
[13:12] <beisner> marcoceppi, according juju test -h this ^ would appear to not be the expected behavior.
[13:14] <beisner> marcoceppi, i've not dug into the code, but could it be that any amulet.raise use takes us down a fail path (given tasdomas is also seeing amulet.PASS raises cause a fail)?
[13:17] <tasdomas> beisner, that's what I saw - I just assumed I was using it wron
[13:17] <tasdomas> g
[13:26] <g3naro> yo!
[13:42] <g3naro> ok,, is there a charm that can build and configre a docker-registry server ?
[13:42] <g3naro> or should i somehow package a puppet class that does setup for this
[14:08] <mbruzek> g3naro: I am not aware of a charm that sets up a docker-registry server.  That is a good candidate for a new charm *nudge* *nudge*
[14:08] <mbruzek> g3naro: charms can be written in puppet or chef, or any thing that runs on Ubuntu
[14:09] <mbruzek> also centos
[14:10] <mbruzek> g3naro: If you want to search for charms use this url: https://jujucharms.com/
[14:11] <mbruzek> It searches charms that are in a personal namespace and ones that are in the recommended section of the charm store.
[14:17] <g3naro> ahh ok great!
[14:37] <marcoceppi> beisner: it shouldn't PASS -> FAIL is determined by the test runner
[14:38] <marcoceppi> PASS exits with code 100, juju test has a flag to determine how to handle SKIP (as OK, or problem)
[14:38] <beisner> marcoceppi, raising a SKIP or PAAS causes juju test to exit non-zero.
[14:38] <marcoceppi> not sure how bundletester handles this
[14:38] <beisner> PASS even
[14:38] <marcoceppi> beisner: well that's not the expected outcome
[14:39] <marcoceppi> and is the first I've heard of this. Do you have an example of the test/cahrm causing this so I can repro?
[14:39] <beisner> dosaboy, ^
[14:39] <marcoceppi> stub: ping
[14:39] <marcoceppi> stub: actually, going to PM
[14:40] <dosaboy> marcoceppi: https://code.launchpad.net/~hopem/charms/trusty/percona-cluster/min-cluster-size/+merge/265502
[14:40] <dosaboy> try running 'make test'
[14:40] <dosaboy> you'll see that most tests skip since they require a vip
[14:40] <dosaboy> yet they all get marked as fail
[14:40] <dosaboy> all the ones that skip that is
[14:45] <beisner> dosaboy, even though this may be unexpected behavior, i would recommend that we allow the test to fail if it's not fed everything it needs (and not even try to SKIP it).
[14:45] <beisner> dosaboy, otherwise a binary pass/fail in ci for a merge proposal may not always mean the same thing.
[14:47] <marcoceppi> dosaboy beisner do you have output?   How are things with you?
[15:26] <apuimedo> mbruzek: not too bad
[15:26] <apuimedo> I did the change you suggested
[15:26] <apuimedo> https://code.launchpad.net/~celebdor/charms/precise/cassandra/hostname_resolve/+merge/257120
[15:26] <mbruzek> great I will review it today
[15:28] <apuimedo> thanks
[15:28] <apuimedo> mbruzek: should I change it to needs review?
[15:28] <mbruzek> yes
[15:29] <mbruzek> thank you for the followup
[15:34] <apuimedo> ;-)
[15:43] <marcoceppi> apuimedo: any reason why you're using the precise version of cassandra and not the new trusty version?
[15:44] <apuimedo> marcoceppi: the trusty version was not there when I satarted with this
[15:44] <apuimedo> I guess I should move to it
[15:44] <apuimedo> and check if it can do what I need to
[15:44] <marcoceppi> apuimedo: it's available now, you should just be able to deploy the trusty version instead
[15:45] <marcoceppi> it's a lot smarter about how to handle clustering and versions of cassandra
[15:45] <apuimedo> I'm very glad to hear that
[15:46] <apuimedo> marcoceppi: I can't see about choosing a specific version
[15:46] <marcoceppi> apuimedo: how specific do you need? this supports more generic options like datastax vs apache and has support for apache cassandra 2.0 and 2.1 atm
[15:47] <apuimedo> I need to install 2.0.1
[15:47] <apuimedo> from datastax
[15:47] <marcoceppi> you mean datastax enterprise or just the cassandra 2.0.1?
[15:48] <apuimedo>         #   - deb http://debian.datastax.com/community stable main
[15:50] <marcoceppi> apuimedo: you can set that in the config.yaml
[15:50] <marcoceppi> install_sources
[15:51] <apuimedo> marcoceppi: yes, but I need an older package from that source
[15:51] <apuimedo> I guess I would have to patch this new cassandra to allow you to specify a specific version
[15:51] <marcoceppi> apuimedo: I see
[15:51] <marcoceppi> apuimedo: well, you can continue to use the precise version, don't get me wrong
[15:52] <marcoceppi> just wanted to make sure you were aware of teh trusty version
[15:52] <apuimedo> I would like to use the trusty
[15:52] <apuimedo> so probably what we can do is
[15:53] <apuimedo> we get this merged for precise
[15:53] <apuimedo> and then for the next release I patch the new cassandra charm to accept version
[15:53] <apuimedo> and move our bundle to use it
[15:53] <marcoceppi> cool
[15:53] <marcoceppi> thanks for the all the work so far!
[15:54] <apuimedo> ;-)
[16:17] <mbruzek> apuimedo: What package_version can I set the cassandra charm to?
[16:18] <apuimedo> I'll give you the config
[16:19] <apuimedo> mbruzek: http://paste.ubuntu.com/11920807/
[16:19] <g3naro> we come in peeeeace
[17:15] <coreycb> jamespage, gnuoy: can one of you review this?  it's needed by neutron-gateway in order to allow upgrading from quantum-gateway to neutron-gateway.  https://code.launchpad.net/~corey.bryant/charm-helpers/upgrade-charm/+merge/265450
[19:19] <pmatulis> are log levels for debug-log and juju-log the same? TRACE, DEBUG, INFO, WARNING, ERROR
[19:51] <marcoceppi> pmatulis: probably
[23:22] <sebas5384> lazyPower: ping


[00:53] <dandel> apw, your resume/suspend testing app is busted.
[00:53] <dandel> doesn't run right on 8.04.2 (to check kernel revisions and whatnot )
[01:29] <pixelmonkey> quick question: is the source code in the linux-source-2.6.27 package exactly the source code used to build my kernel in Intrepid, namely 2.6.27-11-generic?
[02:30] <dtchen> pixelmonkey: with patches applied, yes.
[05:15] <dtchen> wow, there are a shedload of Dells using the STAC9227 that are just broken.
[05:16] <dtchen> workaround: don't use the provided quirk of dell-3stack - it's just crack
[05:16] <dtchen> instead, use 3stack
[05:16] <dtchen> reference: bug 279478
[05:16] <ubot3> Malone bug 279478 in linux "alsa sound fades out when headphones are plugged in until you inaudible" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/279478
[05:17] <dtchen> confirmed for 1028:01f4
[05:18] <dtchen> (and 1028:01dd and 1028:01ed)
[05:20] <dandel> sheesh, trying hte apw test tool on 8.10 upgrade from 8.04 on 2.6.29 kernel caused the ubuntu partition to self destruct.
[05:21] <dandel> suspend/hybernate tests mainly.
[05:24] <JanC> dtchen: most dell hardware is just rebadged 3rd party hardware, so I'm not really surprised  ;)
[05:24] <dtchen> well, i am.
[05:25] <dtchen> there are specific quirks that purportedly work around the insanity. obviously that's bunk.
[05:26] <JanC> you mean you need quirks on quirks?
[05:31] <dtchen> heh. no, we just revert to the "don't rely on bios to have proper info" approach
[05:31] <dtchen> which really seems to be the sensible approach when speaking HDA implementations anyhow
[05:31] <JanC> that's not the default yet?  ;)
[05:31] <JanC> lol
[05:32] <JanC> sometimes I think that implementing interfaces in firmware could actually solve this sort of issue...
[05:36] <JanC> can't be all that difficult for vendors to provide correct info
[05:37] <JanC> maybe there is a way to extract this info automaticly from Windows drivers?
[05:38] <JanC> (I suppose most Windows drivers are based on a reference driver)
[07:41] <cooloney> ikepanhc, do you know what is the latest kernel version on intrepid?
[07:42] <cooloney> ikepanhc, is that 2.6.27-14? I'm in jaunty now
[07:57] <cooloney> ikepanhc, 2.6.27-14.32, right
[07:57] <cooloney> ikepanhc, thanks
[07:57] <ikepanhc> cooloney: its Ubuntu-2.6.27-14.32
[15:26] <ogasawara> apw: smb_tp is away today right?  just fyi bug 357970
[15:26] <ubot3> Malone bug 357970 in linux "No sound in Intrepid after kernel update to 2.6.27-11.31" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/357970
[15:40] <sconklin> rtg: I need advice on a couple of things. First, Tony is having trouble building hardy lpia in his ppa. It's trying to build other arches. I don't know how to make it do the right thing.
[15:40] <apw> PPA's always build on all arches, thats normal i believe
[15:42] <rtg> apw: the problem is that if i386/amd64 fail, then the package build fails
[15:42] <sconklin> apw, thought you were traveling, or I would have asked you
[15:44] <apw> rtg hmmm.  i thought we just didn't worry about that in PPA's only but
[15:44] <apw> as i thought the result packages were separate in some sense
[15:46] <apw> if we can stop it, all the better
[15:47] <sconklin> apw: so I should tell Tony to ignore the package build failure and take the lpia part?
[15:48] <apw> i'll have to defer to rtg's knowledge, if we can stop it \o/
[15:49] <rtg> sconklin: I'd have to experiment a bit, but I don't think build _just_ LPIA is practical.
[15:50] <sconklin> rtg: ok. I suppose that this has only come up because the lpia build process has been moved to the buildds
[15:51] <rtg> sconklin: he can always build locally in an LPIA chroot
[15:52] <sconklin> that's what he's doing,
[15:52] <apw> rtg if we removed amd64 and i386 from control.stub.in might that stop it doing the arch specific portions on those other arches
[15:53] <apw> obviously the all part will still build on i386
[15:54] <rtg> apw: hence, the experimentation. the PPAs behave differently in subtle ways
[17:52] <erikc> Looking for some boot time help --- any idea why pty_init is taking 45 seconds to return during boot time?
[20:08] <awe> sconklin: ping
[20:14] <sconklin> awe: pong
[22:37] <dtchen> oh fun, more pcm_lib fixes. the week of release freeze.
[22:42] <pgraner> dtchen: we are going to have to spin another kernel most likely, we have some ugly intel graphics freezes we are hoping to get fixes for prior to release
[22:42] <dtchen> pgraner: ok. i'm backporting those and other HDA enablement fixes
[22:42] <dtchen> will ask for testers in a few hours
[22:43] <dtchen> the HDA enablement ones are wishlist - SRU material, seeing how they're known quirk workarounds
[22:43] <pgraner> dtchen: ack, keep rtg in the loop so we can get those in he will talk to the release team if and when the time comes
[22:44] <dtchen> pgraner: will do, thanks
[22:47] <pgraner> dtchen: no prob
[23:51]  * manjo searches the house for some beer ...


[01:06] <elops> Hello. can yo think of any thing bad about adding splassert(IPL_NONE) to pmap_enter() ?
[02:59] <palsa> Hello, I found a bug in the gma500_gfx module. How can I obtain the sources?
[03:16] <palsa> Never mind, sorry for the stupid question.
[09:19] <apw> ppisati, i have updated the summary-matrix with your latest upload: http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/configs/quantal/reviews/Portland.html
[09:21] <ppisati> apw: still a lot of sh*t to be synced, thanks
[09:22] <apw> ppisati, now you know my highbank pain
[09:22] <guest1337> if i update kernel 3.4.2+ my wireless card does not work anymore. uses ath9k driver. anyone knows what i can do?
[09:23] <apw> guest1337, does it report anything in dmesg when you use that level of kerenl, it may be needing newer firmware for instance
[09:23] <guest1337> wlan controller is not shown at all
[09:24] <apw> thats odd indeed, whats the pci ids for it, as ath9k still exists in later kernels
[09:26] <guest1337> 02:00.0 Network controller: Atheros Communications Inc. AR9485 Wireless Network Adapter (rev 01)
[09:27] <apw> if you use lspci -nnvv it will include some numbers for it (xxxx:yyyy) sort of thing
[09:28] <guest1337> 02:00.0 Network controller [0280]: Atheros Communications Inc. AR9485 Wireless Network Adapter [168c:0032] (rev 01)
[09:28] <guest1337> 	Subsystem: AzureWave Device [1a3b:2086]
[09:28] <guest1337> 	Control: I/O+ Mem+ BusMaster+ SpecCycle- MemWINV- VGASnoop- ParErr- Stepping- SERR- FastB2B- DisINTx-
[09:28] <guest1337> 	Status: Cap+ 66MHz- UDF- FastB2B- ParErr- DEVSEL=fast >TAbort- <TAbort- <MAbort- >SERR- <PERR- INTx-
[09:28] <guest1337> 	Latency: 0, Cache Line Size: 64 bytes
[09:28] <guest1337> 	Interrupt: pin A routed to IRQ 17
[09:28] <guest1337> 	Region 0: Memory at dea00000 (64-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=512K]
[09:28] <guest1337> 	Expansion ROM at dea80000 [disabled] [size=64K]
[09:28] <guest1337> 	Capabilities: <access denied>
[09:28] <guest1337> 	Kernel driver in use: ath9k
[09:28] <guest1337> 	Kernel modules: ath9k
[09:29] <apw> guest1337, presumably thats from an
[09:29] <apw> guest1337, presumably thats from an older kernel
[09:29] <guest1337> yes thats a working kernel
[09:29] <apw> and where did you get your 3.4.x kernel
[09:30] <guest1337> you need the output of an non working kernel?
[09:30] <apw> not sure about that yet
[09:30] <guest1337> you only need that output? have to reboot
[09:31] <apw> i am wondering where the 3.4 kernel came from first
[09:31] <apw> so i can check the config
[09:31] <guest1337> http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/
[09:31] <apw> which one specifiically
[09:31] <guest1337> 3.4.1 works
[09:31] <guest1337> 3.4.3 tested does not work
[09:31] <guest1337> and 3.4.4 also not working
[09:31] <guest1337> all 3.5.x also not working
[09:31] <guest1337> i did not test 3.4.2
[09:32] <apw> well that would be worth testing indeed to work out which jump is the issue
[09:32] <apw> why are you using 3.4 kernels?  any reason, or just for fun
[09:32] <guest1337> part fun
[09:32] <guest1337> other
[09:32] <guest1337> tochpad is correctly recorganized in 3.4.1
[09:33] <guest1337> if i use the stock one touchpad is show as mouse etc
[09:33] <apw> which touchpad out of interest
[09:34] <guest1337> Sentelic Touchpad
[09:34] <apw> sforshee, ^^ may be an interesting data point for you
[09:35] <guest1337> also scrolling is working with 3.4.1
[09:36] <apw> there is exactly one ath9k patch between those two versions, which is also present in v3.4.2, so if you could test that version that would help work out if it is that commit
[09:37] <apw> it sound somewhat unlikely
[09:37] <guest1337> ok brb 5min
[09:41] <dupondje> BLKSSZGET should return new disk size when I resized a disk, and did a rescan ?
[09:41] <dupondje> Did: echo 1 > /sys/bus/scsi/devices/0\:0\:1\:0/rescan
[09:41] <dupondje> dmesg shows new size, but for example fdisk not (which uses BLKSSZGET)
[09:43] <apw> if dmesg shows the new size then the disk ought to have changed, is the overall size in the partition table too?
[09:44] <dupondje> [57013390.810115] sd 0:0:1:0: [sdb]<PHONE_NUMBER> 512-byte hardware sectors (1099512 MB)
[09:44] <dupondje> and fdisk: Disk /dev/sdb: 536.8 GB,<PHONE_NUMBER>00 bytes
[09:49] <apw> hmmm you might strace fdisk and see what was returned there
[09:49] <apw> if i am reading the current code right it should be returnign the samem number
[09:54] <guest1337> here i am again
[09:54] <guest1337> srry took bit longer
[09:55] <guest1337> apw: 3.4.2 also not working
[09:56] <apw> guest1337, there does only seem to be one commit .1->.2 which could possibly affect ath9k
[09:56] <guest1337> another problem which i forgot
[09:56] <guest1337> whole usb ports do not work anymore
[09:56] <guest1337> on top of that
[09:56] <dupondje> apw: ioctl(3, BLKSSZGET, 0x7fffffffd31c)     = 0
[09:57] <dupondje> fdisk does a BLKSSZEGET, which seems to return wrong size
[09:57] <apw> that does seem broken, i assume this is a VM of some sort given you can change the size of the disk ?
[09:57] <dupondje> blockdev --getsz /dev/sdb also returns old value
[09:57] <dupondje> yep
[09:58] <dupondje> virtual machine, extended disk, rescanned disk
[09:58] <dupondje> but now I can't extend partition because of this
[10:00] <guest1337> apw: found a difference in lspci -nnvv : 	Interrupt: pin A routed to IRQ 17 (with working kernel) and 	Interrupt: pin A routed to IRQ 5 with non working. from network controller
[10:01] <apw> dupondje, presumably a reboot of the vm will resolve it
[10:01] <dupondje> apw: indeed, but thats what we want to avoid ofc :)
[10:01] <guest1337> ath9k driver and module is not loaded at all in non working
[10:03] <smb> dupondje, Sorry I just saw and still read this, I am not sure the scsi rescan attribute works the way ... have you tried to use 'blockdev --rereadpt'?
[10:03] <dupondje> BLKRRPART: Device or resource busy, its mounted ofc :(
[10:06] <apw> guest1337, ok not sure how any change in .1->.2 could cause that, but there is an ath init change so that seems suspicious as a first cut
[10:07] <apw> guest1337, will see about getting a build with that on top of .1 to see if that it, will take me a few
[10:07] <guest1337> ok
[10:08] <smb> dupondje, Yes, none of the device old partitions or the device itself should be opened by anything at that point. And sometimes its near impossible to find out what keeps it busy. :/
[10:09] <ohsix> fuser?
[10:12] <smb> More often not that it does in that case
[10:13] <smb> dupondje, Hm, what kind of virtual machine and how did you resize the disk? Just to get a bit more context
[10:32] <dupondje> smb: ESXi host
[10:32] <dupondje> resized in the vmwware interface
[10:35] <dupondje> its just annoying imo :) resize2fs can do live resizes
[10:35] <dupondje> vmware can do live resize of disk
[10:35] <dupondje> and then your stuck just with extending the partition :)
[10:38] <smb> dupondje, Well don't know much about the internals of vmware. But I guess they just change the disk itself. To some degree this has been noticed by the kernel, but whatever makes the rereadpt fail prevents the gendisk info to get updated.  And as long as that doesn't get done the rest fails too
[10:38] <smb> I assume rebooting is not an option otherwise you'd probably done it long ago...
[10:39] <dupondje> well its an option
[10:39] <smb> None of the partitions on that disk are currently mounted?
[10:39] <dupondje> as last resort :)
[10:40] <dupondje> Well they are mounted ...
[10:41] <dupondje> alot of services running on the disk, so reboot/unmount is last option
[10:41] <dupondje> But I guess its just not possible to resize without a reboot/umount
[10:43] <smb> At least not without unmounting. You would certainly not be happy if someone stole the chair you are sitting on, even if it gets replace by a bigger one...
[10:43] <dupondje> feature request ? :p
[10:43] <dupondje> guess it should be possible?
[10:45] <dupondje> disk can be live resized, new size is mostly seen by the kernel after a device rescan and filesystem can be live resized.
[10:45] <dupondje> so just missing the fdisk/partition part :)
[10:46] <apw> guest1337, http://people.canonical.com/~apw/mainline-3.4.2-debug-quantal/
[10:47] <smb> Well "just" the partition part has a potential to move around any mapping the kernel is using (while mounted). To allow that is not sane feature in my world...
[10:47] <guest1337> apw whats that?
[10:49] <apw> guest1337, a .2 with teh ath change reverted
[10:50] <dupondje> smb: you mean if you have like 2 partitions, and second partition gets deleted it would fuckup ? :)
[10:50] <guest1337> ok ill give it a tyr
[10:50] <guest1337> try
[10:54] <smb> dupondje, Certainly, I would. :-P
[10:54] <guest1337> apw: restarting and testing
[10:56] <dupondje> smb: but still, there could be a check that it for example only resizes partitions, and never add/delete ? :)
[10:56] <smb> dupondje, Feel free to add that and get it accepted upstream. 3:)
[10:57] <dupondje> challenge ... oh wait :)
[11:04] <guest1337> re
[11:04] <guest1337> apw: not working.
[11:10] <Daviey> smb: hey, is http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/davem/net-next.git;a=commitdiff;h=4b727361f0bc7ee7378298941066d8aa15023ffb;hp=e1ac50f64691de9a095ac5d73cb8ac73d3d17dba not applied to precise?
[11:13] <smb> Daviey, That points to a net staging tree. Should it? Certainly this normally would need to be upstream _and_ marked cc stable...
[11:14] <Daviey> smb: I'm just vaguely looking into.. bug 997978 .. which is a set of https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=42829
[11:14] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 997978 in qemu-kvm "KVM images lose connectivity with bridged network" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/997978
[11:14] <ubot2> bugzilla.kernel.org bug 42829 in kvm "KVM Guest with virtio network driver loses network connectivity" [Blocking,Resolved: code_fix]
[11:14] <smb> Daviey, But checking upstream, this was in Linus tree at 3.2 time...
[11:15] <smb> And it is in Precise
[11:16] <Daviey> smb: I thought it would have been applied, which is why i am confused
[11:16] <Daviey> smb: I guess that commit is unrelated to the Ubuntu bug?
[11:16] <smb> Daviey, Well it was in from the beginning
[11:16] <smb> That patch went upstream v3.2-rc1
[11:17] <Daviey> smb: So why no worky?
[11:18] <smb> Daviey, Some other problem? Why should I know? ;)
[11:19] <Daviey> smb: you smart guy.
[11:19] <smb> Daviey, Maybe, but not almighty. ;-P
[11:19] <smb> nor omnipresent
[11:20] <Daviey> smb: Oh, i see. I looked at you as an oracle for all things.
[11:20] <smb> Daviey, Where did you find the reference to that upstream commit? In that bug of ours of rh bugzilla?
[11:21] <Daviey> smb: community member correlated them on IRC.
[11:23] <smb> Daviey, Omm. I think I found it. Its in the upstream bug before the comment saying 11.10 (Oneiric) looks good...
[11:24] <Daviey> smb: Oh sorry, i thought you meant.. what linked the kernel.org bug to LP
[11:26] <smb> Daviey, No more in the sense how or why do we assume this would be the fix. It is a bit confusing in the upstream bug report. It say "I assume it got fixed" but nothing really definitve and the next comment probably only means with a certain argument...
[11:29] <smb> Daviey, I wonder. In our bug report, is there anything said about the host? I only see guest versions but may miss something
[11:31] <guest1337> apw: just tried quantal live build wit <IP_ADDRESS> and it works.. Oo
[11:31] <Daviey> smb: I only started looking at this briefly before i pinged out.. hallyn has been closer to it.
[11:33] <ogra_> wow, ogasawara made it into the german IT news
[11:33] <ogra_> http://www.golem.de/news/ubuntu-zweite-alpha-von-quantal-quetzal-erschienen-1206-92862.html
[11:35] <smb> Daviey, So guess it needs more reading. The change you asked for definitely is in. So whatever the issue is in PRecise it would be different. Or maybe something that has to be changed in a driver running in the host space...
[11:36] <guest1337> can someone watch up xserver-xorg-video-intel current version in 12.04 pls?
[11:37] <brendand> is there a particular package i need to install to get the quantal xorg packages on precise?
[11:37] <brendand> looking at dpkg -l i don't have them, despite that the ppa is enabled
[11:41] <Daviey> smb: okay, thanks muchly
[12:08] <[yates]> hi, where can i find a changelog of precise's linux-image-3.2.0-25-generic and linux-image-3.2.0-26-generic?
[12:18] <henrix> [yates]: in the package itself. take a look at /usr/share/doc/linux-image-3.2.0-25-generic/
[12:19] <[yates]> ahh yeh, nice, thanks :)
[13:29]  * apw looks for an archive admin to stroke a linux-lowlatency kernel in quantal
[13:36]  * apw tries to remember where the udev persistant naming db is
[13:36] <apw> and finds them in the first place he looks, yay
[13:36] <smb> apw, network devices?
[13:36] <apw> yeah, adding a 3rd nic to my firewall
[13:37] <smb> Now you can do a network packet 3-way merge...
[13:37] <apw> heh... 4 way as i have a tunnel too
[13:38] <arges> cking, hello
[13:39] <cking> arges, hiya
[13:39] <arges> cking, finally getting around to the jack_delay testing (its been a fun  week)
[13:39] <arges> cking, where did you get jack/jack.h headers from?
[13:39] <cking> arges, something like libjack*-dev - I can't recall of the top of my head
[13:40] <arges> ah there we are
[13:40] <arges> cking, thanks
[13:40] <cking> libjackdev2-dev I think
[13:40] <cking> nope, libjack-jackd2-dev
[13:41] <arges> libjack-jackd2-dev
[13:41] <arges> yea
[13:41] <arges> wrong version causes issue
[13:42] <cking> yep, it causes all kinds of woes
[13:48] <arges> cking, ahhhh. i have it playing back via headphones and monitors... whoops
[13:48] <cking> arges, its not the most helpful of test tools
[13:49] <arges> cking, i see no variance at all ... i can't even tell my terminal is scrolling anymore
[13:50] <cking> arges, yep, I only got variance when the buffer settings were very small
[13:50] <cking> ..and on a slow machine
[13:50] <cking> but if you load it with tools like "stress" you may see some jitter
[13:52] <arges> cking, ok i may run a stress/unstressed test
[13:52] <arges> as another variable
[13:52] <cking> arges, if you see my data, I had lots of variables :-/
[13:56] <arges> cking, do you have particular stress settings you used?
[13:56] <cking> arges, I ensured all the CPUs were loaded, and followed the defaults otherwise
[13:57] <cking>  arges, for my 2 CPU laptop, I used: stress --cpu 2 --io 4 --vm 2 --vm-bytes 128M
[13:58] <arges>  stress --cpu `grep -c processor /proc/cpuinfo` --io 4 --vm 2 --vm-bytes 128M --timeout 60s
[14:00]  * cking nods
[14:00] <arges> cking, also are you testing on quantal or precise?
[14:01] <arges> i know the ll is quantal
[14:01] <cking> Q
[14:01] <arges> hmm
[14:01] <cking> and I compared the low-latency kernel Q against P, and they behaved the same
[14:06] <arges> cking, the maximum schedule delay... where di dyou find htis?
[14:08] <cking> arges, its on the qjacktql messages window - just near the XRUN count
[14:08] <cking> but only shows up if you get XRUNs
[14:08] <arges> cking, ah
[14:11] <arges> cking, lowest latency settings just crashed jackd
[14:11] <arges> : )
[14:11] <cking> arges, yep, I get that too, it may work after a reboot, but it was really flakey
[14:12] <arges> cking, yea i wrote a 'kickSoundcard.sh' script that just removes all the firewire modules, kills jackd, kills pulse,  and reinserts and loads everything up again
[14:12] <arges> because this stuff happens fairly frequently
[14:13] <cking> basically it's fragile like eggshells
[14:13] <cking> arges, it took me forever to collect multiple sets of reliably looking data for different kernels, different loads, different buffer size configs
[14:15] <arges> cking, i still don't see max sched delay in the qjackctl window... is it somewhere else?
[14:16] <cking> arges, urm, I need to fire up the box that I tested this on just to re-remind myself, lemme dig it out of the pile
[14:17] <arges> cking, i see it
[14:17] <arges> cking, messages->status
[14:17] <cking> arges, that's the one
[14:19] <arges> cking, did you notice if the -ll kernel was anymore stable?
[14:20] <arges> w.r.t. to audio latency / jack not crashing
[14:20] <cking> arges, nope, both were flakey
[14:20] <arges> well its time to reboot my machine
[14:59]  * ogasawara back in 20
[15:05] <josepht> after rebooting a preinstall-server image on my panda, /proc/cmdline contains only 'ro quiet splash'
[15:16] <ppisati> brb
[15:18] <ogra_> josepht, quantal ?
[15:18] <josepht> ogra_: yes
[15:18] <ogra_> thats normal
[15:18] <josepht> ogra_: okay, thanks
[15:19] <ogra_> in the new world order the boot config lives now in /usr/share/flash-kernel/bootscript/ in case you want to change it ... the root= stanza isnt necessary anymore, flash-kernel installs an initramfs hook that reads it from fstab now
[15:31] <cking> arges_, so what was your conclusion? anything of substance?
[15:31] <arges_> cking, getting data now, but had a call so getting back on task
[15:31] <cking> arges_, ah, no sweat :-)
[15:37] <arges_> cking, hmm i think this test is invalid because something called 'unity-music-daemon' started slamming my harddrive
[15:37] <cking> arges_, :-/
[15:41] <josepht> ogra_: I still need to run flash-kernel right?
[15:41] <ogra_> yep
[15:41] <ogra_> that hasnt changed
[16:05]  * ppisati goes to buy some food
[16:10] <arges_> cking, so really >= 32 frames I'm not getting XRUNs with jack_delay and one channel + stress test
[16:11] <arges_> anything else I should be adding to test perhaps 8 channels etC?
[16:11] <cking> arges_, well, it may be your CPU is just fast enough
[16:11] <arges_> cking, yea perhaps test on my other machine
[16:11] <arges_> but i'll add that data to the study so we have it
[16:12] <cking> we could set the max freq lower and re-test
[16:12] <arges_> cking, one thing is that the stress maxes the CPU
[16:12] <arges_> cking, but harddrive operations will cause xruns
[16:12] <cking> yep, well run the bonnie test and see if that causes xruns too
[17:18]  * henrix -> EOD
[17:30]  * cking --> EOD
[18:24]  * bjf -> lunch
[18:43] <cking> apw, I've just sent you the 32/32 32/64 64/64 combo results
[18:43] <cking> no big surprises
[18:43] <apw> cking, hey thanks, will look at the tommorrow when i am more with it
[18:44] <cking> whenever reallty
[18:44] <apw> cking, which side of 32/32 is 32/64 better or worse
[18:44] <cking> it depends on what you're looking for :-)
[18:45] <apw> that means its better for soemthing :)  i shall look forward to reading
[18:45] <cking> lets chew it over on monday when I've not got the kids pestering me
[18:45] <infinity> Performance-wise, I can't see how 32/64 would be any better than 32/32 (since the userspace is too stupid to know it has access to native atomics and other fun stuff), but the obvious benefit of having a 64-bit kernel on your 64-bit CPU seems worth it.
[18:47] <infinity> Assuming, of course, that your "32" is i386.  If the 32 is x32, that's a different can of worms, since you just bought yourself more registers and instructions and such.
[18:47] <mjg59> Or even if your 32 assumes the presence of sse
[18:47] <infinity> Which ours doesn't.
[18:47] <cking> like always, it's a mixed bag
[18:47] <infinity> Though, it has runtime selection here and there.
[18:49]  * cking -> REALLY EOD
[18:49] <infinity> s/D/W/
[18:50] <apw> infinity, well bear in mind that your system calls we in 64bit so it could easily be faster for some operations, and hotter, and eat more battery
[18:50] <apw> *will be in
[18:51]  * apw calls it a wrap too, i smell some lovely spagbol in my future
[18:52] <infinity> You people and your living in the future.
[18:52] <apw> its better than the now in most cases ...
[18:53] <infinity> Is this why Australians always seem so unjustifiably happy?
[22:09] <palsa> Anyone still awake?


[03:41] <j1mc> xubuntu docs... yeay!  they are coming along.
[04:56] <ubotu> New bug: #203422 in kubuntu-docs (main) "[Hardy] Firefox Startpage Translations Needed" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/203422
[09:43] <ubotu> New bug: #203483 in ubuntu-doc "serverguide error" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/203483
[18:06] <ubotu> New bug: #203641 in ubuntu-docs (main) "'server' link instead of 'serverguide' causes I can't read server documentation" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/203641
[20:25] <sommer> mdke: what are the times that doc.u.c updates?
[20:25] <sommer> just curious
[23:34] <mdke> sommer: for ubuntu docs, 0 and 12 hours
[23:34] <mdke> (GMT)


[00:01] <SpamapS>  00:01:44 up 163 days,  9:12,  1 user,  load average: 0.42, 13.39, 16.99
[00:01] <SpamapS> doh
[00:03] <SpamapS> [14115521.537845] drizzled invoked oom-killer: gfp_mask=0x201da, order=0, oom_adj=0, oom_score_adj=0
[00:03] <SpamapS> why is it always the database that gets oom'd first!
[00:24] <SpamapS> http://fewbar.com/charms/need-maintainers.txt
[00:24] <SpamapS> Looking much better!
[00:57] <negronjl> SpamapS: when was the last time you updated need-maintainers.txt ?  AFAIK  all of my charms have maintainers but, they still show on your black list :)
[01:49] <SpamapS> negronjl: I have a few that aren't showing right either
[01:50] <negronjl> SpamapS: ... the list of shame is not working right ... :)
[01:50] <SpamapS> negronjl: something in LP or bzr is not working right
[01:51] <negronjl> SpamapS: I've been having random issues with bzr today ...
[01:52] <SpamapS> negronjl: AHA
[01:52] <SpamapS> charm getall did bzr checkouts
[01:52] <SpamapS> so I have to do 'bzr update'
[01:52] <SpamapS> doh
[01:53] <SpamapS> negronjl: the next run should fix most of that
[01:53] <negronjl> SpamapS: nice
[01:53] <SpamapS> so to be clear, bzr and lp are working right.. SpamapS just had a bug :)
[01:54] <negronjl> SpamapS: lol ... clearing the air :)
[01:55] <hazmat> m_3, spoke too soon not fixed quite yet
[01:56]  * SpamapS wonders how much faster this would be if he were using http: bzr instead of ssh+bzr
[01:57] <hazmat> SpamapS, probably not much
[01:58] <hazmat> SpamapS, it takes about 7m to updates across all the charms for me atm
[01:58] <hazmat> without ssh
[01:58] <hazmat> that's across oneiric and precise charms though
[01:59] <hazmat> which is about 365 charms
[02:02] <hazmat> ~8m30s to be more precise
[03:57] <imbrandon> oh noes, so head was not producing good code so i took a walk, only to the other side of the desk, went to fix one loose cable and have now tore down my full setup , figured it needs a good cleanup anyhow
[03:57] <imbrandon> 5 min turns to 2 hours
[12:48] <imbrandon> m_3 / SpamapS : lets see if i can ask this in short way but get my full meaning ... ok so what about a distinguishment between a service charm and a data charm that really only wants to dump its code thats diffrent or in addiotion to the say wordpress service charm
[12:49] <imbrandon> but not really provide an interfact, just a data/code dump in reality
[12:49] <imbrandon> gotta head out, i'll poke yall later
[12:54] <mgz> is the version of juju exposed inside the python package anywhere?
[12:54] <mgz> I only see it in setup.py
[13:48] <marcoceppi> mgz: `dpkg -l | grep juju` will give you the version :)
[13:49] <mgz> that's not much use for using within juju itself in a user agent string though :)
[13:49] <marcoceppi> mgz: Versions (should) hit when the go port is finished. Not sure if they're going to put them in the Python version
[13:53] <marcoceppi> Hey hazmat, what's the conversation happening on the mailing list about the merge for docs?
[13:53] <hazmat> marcoceppi, its the thread you started.. https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/juju/2012-May/001568.html
[13:53] <hazmat> marcoceppi, my comments are here https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/juju/2012-May/001607.html
[13:54] <marcoceppi> hazmat: that merge doesn't touch the other section of the docs. Would you like me to just update the other section as well to include the new information (I'm confused about what's holding what up)
[13:57] <hazmat> marcoceppi, yeah.. i'd prefer the getting-start doc not have a bunch of local provider specific information, and that it just link to provider specific docs where that information should reside
[13:57] <hazmat> the information added for local provider will need to grow for other corner cases issues..
[13:57] <hazmat> such as ufw usage or existing dns server on the host
[13:58] <marcoceppi> hazmat: cool, I'll move it over to that section. In that respect should we also move getting started EC2? Actually I'll reply back to that thread...
[13:58] <hazmat> marcoceppi, yeah.. i'd like to see it start of with a configuring a provider section, which just looks to individual provider pages, and then continues forward with keygen and bootstrap
[13:58] <hazmat> s/looks/links
[13:59] <marcoceppi> good point
[13:59] <marcoceppi> I'll also add in MAAS configuration since it seems to be missing
[13:59] <hazmat> marcoceppi, awesome, thanks
[14:00] <m_3> marcoceppi: hey... btw, how'd the maas environment work out?  that was pure kvm VMs right?
[14:01] <marcoceppi> m_3: I used VirtualBox and it went pretty well: http://marcoceppi.com/2012/05/juju-maas-virtualbox/ It's not the *best* MAAS experience because WOL doesn't seem to work, but it was a fun starting point
[14:01] <m_3> marcoceppi: awesome man!
[14:03] <jcastro> woo, queue is 19!
[14:04] <marcoceppi> m_3: I look forward to trying again with some real metal and maybe Xen
[14:05] <m_3> marcoceppi: yeah I'm itching to get a little more hardware right now... should have some extra boxes after the move
[14:09] <jcastro> I think I will get another hp microserver
[14:09] <jcastro> see what you guys started?
[14:09] <m_3> ha!
[14:09] <m_3> I really like mine
[14:10] <marcoceppi> I wonder how hard it would be to create a "public" MAAS service
[14:10] <m_3> I think the extra $$ for the ilo sucks... but it's worth it
[14:11] <m_3> marcoceppi: just for demo purposes?  or as a real service
[14:11] <marcoceppi> demo purposes at first, but ideally a public multi-tenant MAAS setup
[14:11] <m_3> hmmm... sounds hard
[14:12] <m_3> I'd love to see a simple way to try juju in general though (not nec maas)
[14:13] <marcoceppi> I'd have to look into how the users work in MAAS, suppose that would be the real limiter. If you could assign units from a larger pool to users directly in MAAS I don't think it'd be that hard, if not it would probably be an uphill battle
[14:14] <marcoceppi> m_3: LXC :P
[14:15] <jcastro> what I want to see
[14:15] <jcastro> is a workload, one on MAAS, and one on Openstack
[14:15] <jcastro> and see if there's a difference
[14:15] <jcastro> and them compare/contrast the pros/cons of doing certain workloads on certain configs
[14:16] <m_3> jcastro: roger... that's planned if we can scrounge the hw
[14:17] <m_3> jcastro: we discussed waiting until constraints could handle "rack-local" deployments... but we really wouldn't have to wait if it's just one rack :)
[14:17] <jcastro> m_3: hey so, assuming your out this week for gluecon, what's your ideal review day?
[14:17] <m_3> it's all rack local
[14:17] <jcastro> I think I'll start penciling in a schedule
[14:17] <m_3> jcastro: Tuesday
[14:18] <m_3> jcastro: ranked preferences T, Th, W
[14:18] <jcastro> perfect
[14:18] <m_3> jcastro: man thanks for setting that stuff up... it'll help out a bunch
[14:19] <jcastro> it's all juan and kapil
[14:19] <jcastro> I just knew what to steal
[14:20] <jcastro> unless I get more comments on the proposal I'll just implement the new wiki page today
[14:20] <jcastro> and then we'll be good to go
[14:20] <m_3> cool
[14:21] <jcastro> after that we have some governance changes
[14:21] <jcastro> which sound dumb but we need them, and we'll likely never use them (a council for the charm store etc.)
[14:21] <jcastro> but jono and I will do all that work
[14:22] <m_3> hazmat: I'll follow up with clint and the lp peeps later today and try to get a non-interruptive fix for the oneiric charms... not happy with their current suggestions for restacking, but don't have anything better
[14:22] <m_3> jcastro: understood
[14:23] <m_3> time to run to gluecon... catch y'all later
[14:41] <mhall119> m_3: do you know of any problems with the postgresql charm and relations for precise?
[14:45]  * nathwill is working on updated owncloud charm...
[14:46] <nathwill> i think i'm going to try and deal w/ the sqlite vs. mysql by setting a bool standalone config option...
[14:56] <avoine> mhall119: I do, you must be carefull that it's not a hostname that goes into your pg_hda.conf
[14:57] <avoine> because it must be an IP address
[14:59] <mhall119> avoine: thanks, I'll check on that
[15:43] <nijaba> SpamapS: just left the charmers team to join the inactive one...
[15:52] <SpamapS> nijaba: cool hah.. you're way ahead of me. :)
[15:52] <nijaba> SpamapS: not that I am that proud of it, but it's the right place for me in all fairness
[15:53] <SpamapS> nijaba: indeed, we need to be *realistic*
[15:56] <SpamapS> nijaba: I just set it up so that inactive-charmers retains write access to the charms though, so that you can keep doing work on the charms you care about
[16:00] <nijaba> SpamapS: cool, thanks
[16:01] <SpamapS> nijaba: so.. you going to keep working on limesurvey and roundcube?
[16:02] <nijaba> SpamapS: trying to.  hoping that the madness of the past few month will go down soon
[16:03] <SpamapS> nijaba: http://fewbar.com/charms/need-maintainers.txt ...
[16:04] <nijaba> SpamapS: k
[16:13] <marcoceppi> SpamapS: just updated my charms
[16:18] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: woot! thanks
[16:22] <negronjl> 'morning all
[16:24] <SpamapS> negronjl: good morning. Note that you are off the wall of shame completely now. :)
[16:24] <SpamapS> ^5
[16:25] <negronjl> SpamapS: ahh ... I have regained some of my honor ... :)
[16:25] <SpamapS> negronjl: most importantly, you have avoided my nagspam
[16:42]  * jcastro fixes his charm maintainership
[16:45] <jcastro> SpamapS: ok I see you created inactive charmers
[16:45] <jcastro> should I move people there?
[16:46] <marcoceppi> jcastro SpamapS what's the inactive criteria?
[16:46] <jcastro> marcoceppi: not wanting to review charms
[16:47] <jcastro> basically, ~charmers are people who want to review charms and promulgate
[16:48] <marcoceppi> Ah, gotchya
[16:49] <jcastro> marcoceppi: for canonical employees I'll assign them days, for you and brandon you guys can just work on it whenever you want like you do now
[16:49] <jcastro> negronjl: mire, which day is good for you for reviews?
[16:50] <SpamapS> hm
[16:50] <SpamapS> we need --force to be able to force even E:'s
[16:50] <jcastro> SpamapS: you're preferred day is friday still?
[16:50] <negronjl> jcastro:  In order of preference ... Mon, Tues, Wed
[16:50] <SpamapS> jcastro: err, no way
[16:51] <SpamapS> jcastro: friday is *slammed*
[16:51] <SpamapS> jcastro: I already have patch pilots on friday :)
[16:51] <negronjl> SpamapS: Are you talking about --force in promulgate ?
[16:51] <SpamapS> negronjl: yeah
[16:51] <SpamapS> negronjl: it needs to ignore everything
[16:51] <jcastro> SpamapS: ok what days work for you?
[16:51] <negronjl> SpamapS: I don't think we should --force on errors
[16:51] <SpamapS> negronjl: I need to promulgate pictor, so that Dustin can commit/push to it for instance
[16:51] <jcastro> jamespage: what days work for you for charm reviews?
[16:51] <SpamapS> negronjl: its necessary
[16:51] <SpamapS> negronjl: shouldn't, but need the ability to do things wrong sometimes.
[16:52] <negronjl> SpamapS: My thoughts are that if we have an E: and you still want to promulgate it then, maybe the proof script needs to re-think what an E; is
[16:52] <SpamapS> negronjl: not having a maintainer *is* an E
[16:52] <jcastro> lynxman: are you going to be able to do 4h a month on charm reviews? lmk.
[16:52] <SpamapS> but I'm promulgating *so somebody else can fix it*
[16:52] <lynxman> jcastro: sure :)
[16:52] <SpamapS> negronjl: keep in mind that promulgate is also to *change* the branch, not just to add a new one
[16:52] <negronjl> SpamapS: A thought is .... why don't _we_ fix it and then promulgate it
[16:52] <jcastro> lynxman: what days work for you?
[16:53] <negronjl> SpamapS: for maintainer that is
[16:53] <SpamapS> negronjl: because I'd rather the commit that says Dustin is the maintainer come from Dustin. :)
[16:53]  * SpamapS just downgrades promulgate and handles it
[16:53] <lynxman> jcastro: just assign me whichever days you need mmore people :)
[16:53] <SpamapS> negronjl: --force should mean --force. Not --ignore-warnings
[16:53] <jcastro> SpamapS: ok, just need what days are good for you and we're done
[16:54] <SpamapS> negronjl: its wrong, but we're not children, we should have powers to override policy when its getting in the way of GTD :)
[16:54] <negronjl> SpamapS: ok ... I'm convinced
[16:54] <SpamapS> jcastro: M,W,Th
[16:54] <negronjl> SpamapS: Are you fixing it or should I ?
[16:55] <SpamapS> negronjl: Heh, I've moved on. Perhaps we can fix it if it ever comes up again? :)
[16:55] <negronjl> SpamapS: lol ... all that convincing for nothing :)
[16:56] <SpamapS> negronjl: I'm a real s*** like that.
[16:56] <SpamapS> negronjl: I trust you to prioritize it appropriately. :)
[16:56]  * SpamapS translates: DO IT NOW OR SPAMAPS WILL CRY
[16:57] <negronjl> SpamapS: lol ... I'll get it done in a minute
[16:58] <SpamapS> You know what we need tho? We need an audit log of promulgate's activities.
[16:58] <SpamapS> Like, I'd like to see who promulgated what
[16:59] <negronjl> SpamapS: good idea ... when can you have it ready :)
[16:59] <marcoceppi> SpamapS: how would you audit that?
[16:59] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: I just want it available. I don't know how I'd use it.
[17:00]  * SpamapS is like Johnny 5.. need iiiinnnpput
[17:00] <marcoceppi> Right, how would you track that though? Webservice?
[17:00] <marcoceppi> I don
[17:00] <marcoceppi> I don't think there's a way to track that in lp currently
[17:01] <SpamapS> LP probably has it in some way
[17:01] <SpamapS> just not exposed
[17:02] <SpamapS> Even if its just "last touch by..x"
[17:02] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: launchpad logs almost everything that the distro package publisher does
[17:02] <SpamapS> I want similar logs for charms
[17:05] <negronjl> SpamapS: do we want warnings to abort promulgate by default ?
[17:05] <negronjl> SpamapS: you could always use --force to override them
[17:06] <jamespage> jcastro, wednesdays would be good for me
[17:07] <SpamapS> negronjl: I like that it aborts on warnings
[17:08] <SpamapS> negronjl: but I wonder if we should separate the two concerns
[17:08] <SpamapS> negronjl: E's are definitely "never do this unless you know what you're doing" .. but warnings might just be "I'm moving the ownership of a branch so a team can improve it"
[17:08] <negronjl> SpamapS: for now ... let's leave it aborting on warnings as well as errors .... it gives you the opportunity to decide whether you want to fix the warnings or not.
[17:09] <negronjl> SpamapS: you can always just use the --force switch and override it all but, promulgate gives you a chance to decide
[17:09] <SpamapS> negronjl: right, I'm thinking --ignore-warnings should have more friendly language than --force
[17:09] <negronjl> SpamapS: I can just put them both
[17:10] <SpamapS> negronjl: I think it makes sense. --force would ignore both, --ignore-warnings would naturally just ignore warnings.
[17:10] <negronjl> SpamapS: ok .. I'll have it done in a minute
[17:10] <SpamapS> heh.. doh.. my wall of shame hasn't been updating for about 19 reasons
[17:10] <SpamapS> now I just figured out I was still using bzr+ssh so the cron job that did bzr pulls was broken :-P
[17:11] <negronjl> SpamapS: shame on you :)
[17:11] <SpamapS> indeed
[17:20] <negronjl> SpamapS: https://code.launchpad.net/~negronjl/charm-tools/ignore-warnings-modified-force/+merge/107082
[17:23] <SpamapS> negronjl: approved, thanks for being my bit^H^Hest friend. :)
[17:28] <negronjl> SpamapS: lol ... no worries f^H^H^H^^Hriend :)
[17:30] <lynxman> lots of ^H going around eh? :P
[17:31] <SpamapS> lynxman: yeah, make sure you have all your shots ;)
[17:31] <lynxman> lol
[17:32] <hazmat> negronjl, please don't reject the branches
[17:32] <hazmat> for oneiric
[17:33] <hazmat> negronjl, this is a hosting problem not an mp issue
[17:33] <negronjl> hazmat: ahh ...
[17:33] <hazmat> negronjl, there's discussion on the lists about
[17:33] <negronjl> hazmat: I'll leave them alone for now then ...
[17:33] <negronjl> hazmat: what list ?
[17:33] <hazmat> negronjl, all of them ;-)
[17:33] <negronjl> hazmat: damn ....
[17:33] <negronjl> There going to be a lot more ^H flying around here
[17:34] <negronjl> I rejected two MPs already because of that ...
[17:34] <hazmat> negronjl, yeah.. i saw, i'm putting them back into needs review.. we'll hopefully have the branches back this week
[17:35] <negronjl> hazmat: can you also put a comment as to why you are putting them back on ... That way It will remind me of what happened ...
[17:35] <negronjl> hazmat: It will also prevent another poor soul to do what I just did .. :)
[17:36] <hazmat> negronjl, these are the branches with problems fwiw http://paste.ubuntu.com/1003347/
[17:36] <hazmat> negronjl, yup, i'm putting comments in them as well (re mp)
[17:37] <hazmat> personal charm branches are fine
[17:37] <negronjl> hazmat: thx
[17:39] <SpamapS> hazmat: isn't that like.. *all* of the official branches?
[17:40] <hazmat> SpamapS, just oneiric
[17:40] <hazmat> SpamapS, and most of them yes
[17:40] <hazmat> SpamapS, these 6 seem to be okay.. http://jujucharms.com/charms/oneiric
[17:40] <SpamapS> hazmat: hazmat mumble-server was added after the distro branch
[17:41] <hazmat> SpamapS, yeah.. i suspect that was a reason
[17:41] <SpamapS> hazmat: glance, rabbit, and nova* were all already in precise.. so that must have protected them
[17:41] <hazmat> SpamapS, namely they where pushed to after the distro series stuff
[17:41] <hazmat> SpamapS, well there are some that where in precise already that are showing up here
[17:41] <SpamapS> hazmat: so is the problem just the bad stacking right now?
[17:41] <hazmat> zookeeper comes to mind
[17:41] <hazmat> SpamapS, yes
[17:41] <hazmat> er.. aren't showing up
[17:42] <SpamapS> hazmat: so IIRC, we just need to rename all the precise branches, then co/reconfigure all the oneiric branches, then re-rename the precise branches
[17:52] <hazmat> SpamapS, yeah.. i've been talking to m_3 about it
[17:52] <hazmat> the problem arose in renaming the precise branches
[17:52] <hazmat> SpamapS, it would be easier to avoid the distro tools and just push the branches to a new series location, and promulgate the new ones
[17:56] <SpamapS> hazmat: we *must* use at least some of the tools in LP because the REST API does not allow marking a series as "Active Development"
[17:57] <hazmat> SpamapS, that's distinct from the branch mangement
[17:58] <SpamapS> hazmat: it is, but its completely wrapped up in branch-distro at this point
[17:58] <SpamapS> so, we'll need to submit patches to LP to decouple the two
[17:59] <hazmat> SpamapS, easy to just have a separate charm specific tool for it imo
[18:03] <SpamapS> hazmat: right, but it has to be run inside LP, by a LOSA.. so we can't just do it w/o getting patches into LP
[18:03] <hazmat> SpamapS, ugh. oh
[18:06] <hazmat> SpamapS, its a one line fix to launchpad/lib/lp/codehosting/branchdistro.py to switch from stacking on branch name to id is my understanding
[18:07] <hazmat> so that we can rename the branch afterwards
[21:04] <mhall119> jcastro: do you know if anybody is working on any 3d rendering charms?
[21:05] <jcastro> not afaict
[21:05] <jcastro> 83 official charms now, queue down to 15.
[21:05] <jcastro> nice work fellas, that's a spicy meatball!
[21:06] <mhall119> nice
[21:16] <negronjl> SpamapS: https://code.launchpad.net/~clint-fewbar/charm-tools/add-proper-help/+merge/107118  ... Approved
[21:19] <SpamapS> negronjl: danke
[21:19] <negronjl> SpamapS: np
[21:21] <SpamapS> negronjl: now to add bash completion :)
[21:21] <negronjl> SpamapS: heh ... cool
[21:21] <SpamapS> tired of hitting charm rev tab tab tab tab
[21:31] <negronjl> jcastro: ping
[21:32] <negronjl> jcastro:  about patch pilot
[21:41] <mhall119> woot!  Got my summit charm working
[21:47] <nathwill> so would juju-log be the best way to communicate an autogenerated password to the admin during a CMS setup?
[21:59] <SpamapS> $ charm get n
[21:59] <SpamapS> nagios                 nfs                    nova-cloud-controller
[21:59] <SpamapS> newrelic-php           node-app               nova-compute
[21:59] <SpamapS> mmmmmm... tab completion
[22:07] <SpamapS> hazmat: sorry to be a pest, but whats the status on an 'enable proposed' option?
[22:07] <hazmat> SpamapS, i tried out the branch and its working
[22:08] <hazmat> SpamapS, i'll propose it for merging
[22:08] <SpamapS> hazmat: sweet, thanks :)
[22:10] <negronjl> SpamapS: what's the option ( enable proposed ) for ?
[22:10] <SpamapS> negronjl: so we can test updates in precise-proposed
[22:10] <negronjl> SpamapS: ahh... thx
[22:12] <hazmat> enabled via juju-origin: proposed
[22:16] <negronjl> SpamapS: https://code.launchpad.net/~clint-fewbar/charm-tools/add-bash-completion/+merge/107127 ... approved
[22:17] <SpamapS> negronjl: we are on a roll. :)
[22:18] <SpamapS> 35 charms out of 78 need maintainers.
[22:18] <negronjl> SpamapS: heh ... we are .  We should now be off the hook for reviewing for a week :)
[22:18] <SpamapS> Whoo! halfway there
[22:18] <SpamapS> negronjl: you should. I haven't reviewed hardly anything ;)
[22:19] <negronjl> SpamapS: I get bored waiting for CloudFoundry to finish ( and then do it again and again and again ) so, I review ( apparently sometimes I break reviews )


[01:11] <tomreyn> i just extracted some HP BIOS update (for a UEFI system) using binwalk, found a PEM RSA private key file, password protected. Why would that be in there, and what might it be good for?
[01:11] <tomreyn> sorry, wrong channel
[01:12] <daftykins> aww but that's interesting
[02:03] <tomreyn> sorry ;-)
[03:18] <EoflaOE> Hello lotuspsychje
[03:19] <lotuspsychje> good morning
[03:19] <EoflaOE> Good morning
[03:20] <EoflaOE> How is your day lotuspsychje
[03:21] <lotuspsychje> all good here, still trying to wakeup
[03:21] <lotuspsychje> about to go work EoflaOE ?
[03:21] <EoflaOE> Work? No, you mean school.
[03:22] <lotuspsychje> oh right
[03:23] <EoflaOE> So, LunarBNC is down now, and should be back up. I am chatting right now without bouncer.
[03:41] <lotuspsychje> https://news.softpedia.com/news/first-librem-5-linux-phones-start-shipping-to-customers-around-the-world-527544.shtml
[04:01] <EoflaOE> Nice phone lotuspsychje
[04:45] <SwedeMike> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tuLkga0dmY seems room for improvement on that device...
[04:47] <SwedeMike> having been an Nokia N900 early adopter, I'm always sceptical by these kinds of devices.
[04:49] <SwedeMike> I mean, I'm all for new competition to Android and Apple and who can bring this kind of UI to other devices (rpi with small screen for instance), so I hope they succeed.
[04:55] <lotuspsychje> SwedeMike: the nice part i like, is the terminal way you can control the phone
[04:55] <lotuspsychje> on ubports its locked into apps
[06:18] <lordievader> Good morning
[09:23] <BluesKaj> 'Morning folks
[09:48] <gry> which window manager has plugins?
[09:48] <gry> so that i can add my own titlebar buttons etc
[11:34] <marcoagpinto> Hello!
[12:20] <lordievader> 👋
[13:04] <marcoagpinto> lordievader!
[13:44] <lordievader> How are you doing marcoagpinto ?
[13:44] <marcoagpinto> I am fine, and you?
[13:44] <marcoagpinto> :)
[13:44] <marcoagpinto> I spent 7-8 hours translating the CardBook add-on for Thunderbird
[13:45] <lordievader> Doing good here. Sharpened the monitoring on my AP.
[13:45] <marcoagpinto> AP?
[13:46] <lordievader> Access Point. https://grafana.oliviervandertoorn.nl/dashboard/snapshot/Ef1bJUJ0vVQ6wf97EGeRT3tK9ZZ93j9J?orgId=1
[13:46] <lordievader> I'm not at home, which explains why the AP is mostly idle.
[13:48] <marcoagpinto> ahhhhhhh
[16:41] <lotuspsychje> !biosupdate
[16:48] <marcoagpinto> lotuspsychje: When I bought my other laptop years ago, the ASUS update app, updated the BIOS, but it only happened once... years have gone by and no more updates
[16:48] <lotuspsychje> marcoagpinto: on windows?
[16:48] <EoflaOE> marcoagpinto!!!
[16:48] <marcoagpinto> yes, on Windows
[16:48] <marcoagpinto> EoflaOE!!!!!!!
[16:48] <EoflaOE> Hello! How are you?
[16:48] <marcoagpinto> fine, thanks, and you?
[16:49] <marcoagpinto> how was school?
[16:49] <EoflaOE> I am doing fine. And you?
[16:49] <marcoagpinto> >:)
[16:49] <marcoagpinto> also
[16:49] <marcoagpinto> a lot better than last week and the one before
[16:51] <EoflaOE> Nice! And how was the speller?
[16:52] <marcoagpinto> EoflaOE: I am planning to release it tomorrow :)
[16:52] <marcoagpinto> an update
[16:52] <EoflaOE> Nice
[18:29] <OerHeks> Shotwell's predecessor (F-Spot) had equivalent "wireless" functionality at least two years before this patent was first applied for.... https://lwn.net/Articles/800516/
[18:30] <daftykins> xD
[18:30] <OerHeks> it is like the round edge/apple
[22:23] <TJ-> tomreyn: was BigBlueButton the educational conferencing tool you were talking about?
[22:24] <tomreyn> TJ-: yes! :) i was cheering when i read you :)
[22:24] <TJ-> hehehe great! I love it, thanks for the recommendation.
[22:24] <tomreyn> glad you could find it despite my clumsy description
[22:25] <TJ-> I secured a lease on our new premises today... and got the landlord to buy into the vision and give us 12 months free up front... so come January we'll be cracking on with deploying stuff to open March 1st... we're going to start playing with the technology next week
[22:26] <daftykins> ooh :D
[22:26] <sarnold> TJ-: ooh, congratulations :)
[22:27] <TJ-> He's even offered to provide a site and fund its redevelopment into our long-term plan for our national centre for magical innovation  and hi-tech incubator
[22:27] <TJ-> sarnold: thanks :)
[22:27] <daftykins> was that the shopping centre type one that had links from the islands here?
[22:28] <TJ-> that's worth about £2.5m to us
[22:28] <TJ-> daftykins: no, this is another site... we gave up on that shopping centre site as unsuitable due to no integrated parking
[22:28] <TJ-> daftykins: BUT I am keeping an eye on the people that bought it to tap them later :)
[22:29] <TJ-> This landlord is a major local land-owner in and around the town and a bit of a philanthropist
[22:31] <TJ-> I've also found a techie apprentice wannabe who we hope to take on a government funded level 6 (degree) apprenticeship for 3 years
[22:32] <TJ-> I tell you this because there is a very funny story ... we met him for the first time yesterday and he's a very friendly young (21) lad... at one point he's telling me and 2 female colleagues of the charity about having a tall set of retail-store shelves dropped on him by an angry manager and how it caused terrible brusies on his thing and cut his foot...
[22:33] <daftykins> ah ha :D
[22:33] <daftykins> ooh that's quite the story
[22:34] <TJ-> ... and to demonstrate he dropped his trousers to show us!! Talk about lack of inhibtions :D  ... I suspect he's on the Autistic Spectrum so luckily we have 2 former teachers, one special needs, as trustees, who are going to meet with me and his parents to figure out how to manage him and keep him from doing inappropriate things!
[22:34] <daftykins> crikey
[22:34] <sarnold> well, that'd certainly be a memorable visit :)
[22:34] <daftykins> well i wish you luck with that one :)
[22:35] <TJ-> we've been laughing about it ... how did he get the job? oh, he just dropped his trousers :D
[22:36] <daftykins> clearly the ladies took a shine to the boy
[22:36] <daftykins> ok bed for me, nn all \o
[22:37] <TJ-> oops, realised I typed "bruises on his thing" when I meant "thigh! ... oh gawd what a typo!
[22:37] <daftykins> xD oh ok the story just got tamer
[22:38] <TJ-> g'night daftykins
[22:44] <tomreyn> TJ-: oh congrats, sorry i got carried away by support.
[22:44] <TJ-> tomreyn: I may be testing out the Moodle+BigBlueButton on you :)
[22:46] <tomreyn> hehe, you could, but i don't own a cam.
[22:47] <tomreyn> happy to show some pic, though
[22:49] <TJ-> it's more about critquing the educational tooling, the shared whiteboard and such and remote long-distance performance/latency feel
[22:53] <tomreyn> sure, let me know.
[22:56] <TJ-> we're seriously investigating being able to offer the course(s) remotely so that kind of experience is important to know and as we're so close it's hard to be sure even with latency simulators what real-world might feel like
[23:15] <tomreyn> yes, testing long range video + voice communication systems isn't easy.
[23:16] <tomreyn> btw this is this small all-passive 'server' system i'll go with (i think i told i'm looking for one the other day): https://www.zotac.com/gb/product/mini_pcs/zbox-pro-ci329-nano
[23:17] <tomreyn> it's got rs-232 and a hardware watchdog timer. the cpu is a bit slow but should be goo enough for the purpose.
[23:18] <tomreyn> and the price is a lot lower than any BMC based system i could find (plus there's only one all-passive one i found)
[23:18] <tomreyn> "Support Windows 10 and Ubuntu Linux"
[23:21] <TJ-> I'm hoping we can build our entire infrastructure on RasPi 4's, using SDN and ZodiakGX OpenFlow switches
[23:23] <TJ-> possibly a PC Engines APU2 or similar too
[23:32] <tomreyn> and then instantly quit the job?
[23:38] <TJ-> It'll be fire and forget... even going to leave them in the suspended ceiling
[23:40] <tomreyn> hehe, hopefully that's in line with fire safety regulations.
[23:41] <TJ-> no different to having 240V lighting panels (which we've decided to replace with multi-colour LED panels so at bights we can program them to play ceiling tetris on games nights
[23:42] <TJ-> s/bights/nights/
[23:42] <tomreyn> hahaha
[23:42] <sarnold> so .. you're *not* going to hanging ropes around the place with bights everywhere? :)
[23:44]  * tomreyn just learnt a new vocabluary :)
[23:44] <tomreyn> also vocabulary
[23:45] <TJ-> I was hoping we could set up our own IPv6 addresable jinglepings clone for next year
[23:56] <tomreyn> I seem to have missed something around past xmas. and now my xmas tree connection keeps timing out.


[15:49] <jussi01> IRCC meeting Sunday 9th 0700 UTC! | Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcTeam/IrcCouncil/MeetingAgenda | Issues Wiki Page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcTeam/IrcCouncil/IRCteamproposal
[19:43] <mac9416> Hello, there was a meeting scheduled in #ubuntu-locoteams that never happened. Can anyone tell me what went wrong?
[19:58] <Mamarok> mac9416: meetings are usually held in #ubuntu-meetings
[19:59] <mac9416> Mamarok, well, #ubuntu-locoteams says in its topic that it will be "here," and #ubuntu-meeting has been quiet.
[19:59] <mac9416> Which tells me someone goofed
[19:59] <Mamarok> hm, are you sure about the timestamp?
[19:59] <mac9416> Yes, 17.00 UTC
[19:59] <Mamarok> the meetings are always scheduled with UTC time
[19:59] <mac9416> Yeah, I'm in -5, or Central
[20:00] <mac9416> Several other people in there are puzzled.
[22:16] <Sarvatt> hello! I just got approved for membership and am interested in getting a cloak whenever anyone has a moment. my launchpad profile: https://edge.launchpad.net/~sarvatt
[22:17] <niko> Sarvatt: please ask an ubuntu irc council member
[22:17] <niko> you should find them on wiki i hope
[22:18] <Sarvatt> ah the steps on the wiki said to join this channel and ask, I'm sorry for the noise and thanks for the help
[22:18] <niko> Sarvatt: no noise, you're welcome
[22:18] <niko> some of them are here
[22:18] <niko> but i forget who :)
[22:23] <jussi01> niko: elky and Pici ;)
[23:11] <elky> jussi01, Pricey, nalioth please cloak Sarvatt and andrew_46
[23:12] <nalioth> will do
[23:14] <nalioth> enjoy your cloak, Sarvatt
[23:59] <Sarvatt> thank you very much nalioth!