[02:04] <Burlypenguin> Hello, would someone be willing to help me troubleshoot an ubiquity issue?
[06:49] <rainbowwarrior> hello
[06:50] <rainbowwarrior> I think there is a bug in Ubuntu 15.04 ( Release 17th December 2014 ) I can login fine using my password but when I do su for root it says my password is invalid. same as with root
[09:40] <lordievader> Good morning.
[13:24] <BluesKaj_> Hi all
[14:48] <elfy> hi BluesKaj
[14:49] <BluesKaj> Hi elfy, what's happening ?
[14:50] <elfy> not much at all - which is good :)
[14:50] <elfy> how's you?
[15:03] <BluesKaj> I'm ok , just trying to setup some desktop schemes in plasma 5 but the Downloader is broken
[15:14] <elfy> that's fun then ...
[15:15] <elfy> we've just had gtk3.14 land - some theme issues to deal with apparently
[15:28] <BluesKaj> well, if the issue isn't solved soon I may revert to plasma 4 if that's possible 15.04, if not, I'll reinstall 14.10 and plasma 4 which is default
[15:28] <BluesKaj> on kubuntu
[15:32] <elfy> yep
[15:32] <elfy> not often I look at kubuntu
[15:33] <johnjohn101> heelo
[15:38] <elfy> hello
[15:42] <johnjohn101> someone needs to change the schedule in the topic
[15:42] <johnjohn101> also when is 3.18 going to be rolled out in
[16:27] <bubbasaures> this is not the developer channel johnjohn101
[16:27] <johnjohn101> i wasn't asking a development question
[16:28] <bubbasaures> johnjohn101, how would we know when 3.18 is due is my point.
[16:30] <johnjohn101> i mean kernel 3.18 in the daily.
[16:30] <elfy> johnjohn101: " We are still debating on uploading to the archive after Alpha1 releases this week. However, we may opt to wait until everyone returns from holiday after the new year. "
[16:30] <elfy> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting/2014-12-16
[16:31] <johnjohn101> tx elfy.
[16:32] <elfy> as far as the topic is concerned - someone with ops here would have to do that
[16:33] <johnjohn101> elfy, i know some ops, i'll see if they will change
[17:13] <rww> thanks johnjohn101
[17:24] <elfy> thanks rww :)
[17:46] <nagerst> Can you run unity8 on Xorg or is it Mir exclusive?
[18:50] <johnjohn101> np, rww


[01:33] <skypce> hi, can you add a extra functionallity to gnome, every time when i view a video the screen after of 3 minutos (my configured time) the screen change to black, can you add a rule that say when the process totem playback a video (by example), deactivate screen off function,. when totem stop activate again the screen off . i will be happy if you change this. thanks
[01:34] <skypce> sorry view=watch
[01:34] <skypce> uff
[02:01] <smoser> TheMuso, thanks for responding, i got answers to my questions from others.
[02:01] <smoser> (regarding windows-key-zoom)
[02:06] <TheMuso> smoser: np
[02:06] <TheMuso> ah ok
[03:37] <robert_ancell> StevenK, can you have a look at pygi for me (in NEW queue)
[08:08] <dholbach> good morning
[08:11] <didrocks> good morning dholbach
[08:11] <dholbach> hi didrocks
[08:11] <ajmitch> didrocks: oh, I gave a talk at the local python user group about quickly, people were impressed :)
[08:13] <didrocks> ajmitch: sweet! I hope you tell them to join #quickly in case of any trouble (0.4.3 will be out next week as an SRU for lucid btw ;)). Thanks :)
[08:22] <LucidFox> You know, when I do a Google search for Wayland, the numbet of results incorrectly calling it an X server is shocking
[08:23] <LucidFox> Granted, those are mostly news articles, and journalists aren't generally famous for doing their research.
[08:34] <RAOF> LucidFox: The git repo summarises it best: “Wayland: a tiny something”
[08:34] <LucidFox> Heh, indeed
[08:35] <LucidFox> I wonder, however, if Wayland is merely the next "sooo much less bloated than X" server that will eventually be doomed to obscurity
[08:36] <LucidFox> the last commit in that git is March 30
[08:41] <RAOF> As I understand it, it's not likely to ever be more than a skunkworks “how little do we need in a display server” project, although it's not unlikely that techniques & technology from it will end up in a future Xorg.
[08:42] <LucidFox> Bwuh :(
[08:46] <LucidFox> I really would like to see a move to a leaner windowing system, with a rootless X server for legacy applications
[08:46] <LucidFox> (i.e. like what Mac OS X does, from what I understand)
[08:47] <LucidFox> sadly, looks like X will remain in its place for years to come
[08:50] <pwnguin> didnt someone patch Xorg to run rootless?
[08:51] <pwnguin> or am i thinking of a different kind of rootless
[08:52] <LucidFox> rootless means running X clients in another window system, basically
[08:52] <RAOF> Yeah, X itself isn't going anywhere.  Legacy applications FTW!
[08:52] <LucidFox> like Xming on Windows, which creates windows inside the native window manager
[08:53] <LucidFox> Mac OS X has a similar approach, it renders X clients inside native windows. The problem is, for Linux, the native window system is... X.
[08:54] <RAOF> The X protocol bits might end up being a loadable module of the server; there seems to be a broad “yeah, that's what I'd do if I had the time to hack on it” feeling on the Xorg list.
[08:55] <LucidFox> Well, as long as you support Xlib, you support all the ugly legacy protocol stuff.
[08:55] <RAOF> Yeah.
[08:56] <RAOF> But no one uses the original X protocol for drawing; you use RENDER.
[08:57] <RAOF> There's a lot of that protocol stuff that is basically never touched.  Font servers, anyone?
[08:58] <RAOF> In other news: yay!  sbuild works on Maverick again!
[09:01] <LucidFox> Yes, but Xlib doesn't know that modern-age toolkits only use a small subset of the X functionality. So ultimately it will boil down to porting GTK and Qt (at least) to another backend.
[09:03] <RAOF> What's the difference between “GTK uses a subset of Xlib + the modern extensions” and “GTK uses a different backend, and Xlib still exists”?
[09:04] <LucidFox> Because using Xlib will force the Next Gen Leaner Meaner Display Server into X compatibility mode?
[09:05] <RAOF> I don't see why - the modern extensions can do whatever they want.
[09:07] <LucidFox> Well, (in this completely hypothetical scenario) Xlib would still use the X protocol, correct?
[09:07] <RAOF> Yes
[09:08] <RAOF> I guess my question is: what's so terrible about the X11 protocol that iterative extensions can't fix :)
[09:09] <LucidFox> That it's X. A bloated, 26-year-old monolithic mess of hacks and extensions designed to fit a square peg into a round hole.
[09:10] <LucidFox> If something advertises itself as an X server, it means there's a lot of stuff that nobody uses yet the server must support.
[09:11] <RAOF> That code can safely sit and mellow.  Or concievably be dynamically loaded.
[09:14] <RAOF> Also, doesn't _quite_ describe current reality; there's some X stuff that Xorg doesn't actually support (Zaphod, for example)
[09:19] <nzmm> just wondering, if i switch my source.list from lucid to maverick, i get maverick, i have seen few updates...
[09:19] <nzmm> whats the 'official' way to upgrade to a dev version?
[09:20] <nzmm> upgrade-manager -d?
[09:20] <zyga> nzmm, yes
[09:20] <LucidFox> update-manager -d, but yes
[09:20] <nzmm> ok cool
[09:20] <zyga> nzmm, do-release-upgrade -d
[09:20] <nzmm> ta
[09:20] <zyga> nzmm, it might not be enabled yet though ymmv
[09:20] <RAOF> Except that won't work yet, because it hasn't been turned on :)
[09:21] <nzmm> yep just saw
[09:21] <nzmm> so doing a replace all in sources.list is ok?
[09:21]  * ajmitch should probably try an upgrade to lucid from hardy now :)
[09:23] <arand> nzmm: I think it actaully has been enabled, mvo mentioned it in +1 before...
[09:57] <nzmm> arand: oh, well maybe the fact i already replaced_all kinda screwed my ability to do that now :(
[09:57] <nzmm> but in prinicpal replace_all in sources list is ok?
[09:58] <arand> nzmm: Well, that's what do-release-upgrade does, afaik, along with disabling your PPAs
[09:59] <nzmm> oh...
[09:59] <nzmm> ok
[09:59] <nzmm> thnx
[11:00] <mok0> package.ubuntu.com search sux big time
[11:01] <mok0> It doesn't know ANY maverick packagse
[11:14] <joaopinto> cjwatson, can you fix the bug about the wrong default timezone for Portugal ?
[11:14] <cjwatson> joaopinto: not at the moment no, sorry
[11:14] <geser> mok0: known problem
[11:14] <cjwatson> joaopinto: busy with alpha-1
[11:15] <joaopinto> uff, a trivial server side issue open for so long  :(
[11:15] <joaopinto> the last time it was the final release, now it's alpha :P
[11:22] <mok0> geser: I see, thanks
[11:40] <dpm> hi cjwatson. Do you happen to know if there is anything needed to do to a package to enable translations of the long and short descriptions from the control file? I know translations are fetched from the Translations-$LANG files from the archive, but I'm not sure if just dropping translations in the right archive folder is enough or if there is additional work required on the package
[11:40] <cjwatson> I confess I'm not entirely sure what the DDTP stuff involve
[11:40] <cjwatson> s
[11:40] <cjwatson> but I've never heard of any package-specific work being required
[11:41] <cjwatson> I thought that there was a custom upload job somewhere that dealt with it
[11:42] <dpm> cjwatson, ok, thanks. I'll wait until mvo comes back tomorrow to ask for more details, as he's the one doing the DDTP uploads. I couldn't find any documentation on how this works
[11:42] <cjwatson> it's one of the bits of the archive I'm almost completely unfamiliar with :)
[11:43] <cjwatson> although I think there are a couple of archive bugs open that will necessitate me figuring it out
[11:43] <dpm> :)
[11:44] <dholbach> dpm: mvo would know
[11:44] <dholbach> oh ok, nevermind
[11:44] <dpm> dholbach, :)
[12:31] <dupondje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libutempter/+bug/589103 => is this a correct mir report?
[12:37] <anon^_^> hi, is this the proper place to note errors for ubuntu.com and relevant subdomains
[12:39] <dupondje> anon^_^: what errors ?
[12:39] <anon^_^> http://packages.ubuntu.com/lucid-updates/
[12:39] <BlackZ> anon^_^: what's wrong there?
[12:40] <anon^_^> click on it
[12:40] <anon^_^> "
[12:40] <anon^_^> Error
[12:40] <anon^_^> more than one suite specified for show_static (dapper dapper-updates dapper-backports hardy hardy-updates hardy-backports intrepid intrepid-updates intrepid-backports jaunty jaunty-updates jaunty-backports karmic karmic-updates karmic-backports lucid)
[12:40] <anon^_^> "
[12:41] <BlackZ> anon^_^: send an e-mail at frank[AT]lichtenheld[DOT]de
[12:41] <cjwatson> the contact address is at the bottom of the packages.ubuntu.com front page FWIW
[12:41] <BlackZ> also, sorry I don't know where's the problem, maybe it's on re-fresh
[12:41] <anon^_^> easier to report on irc, anyone know if frank's on freenode
[12:41] <cjwatson> he's not on this channel at least.
[12:42] <cjwatson> I suggest respecting the requested contact method.
[12:42] <cjwatson> (packages.ubuntu.com isn't a service run by Ubuntu, although it's useful - it's actually a rebadged packages.debian.org run by the same person who runs that service)
[12:57] <Ng> 2010-06-03 11:16:51.442 17240 FATAL @src/pooler.c:179 in function create_net_socket(): cannot parse addr: ''
[12:58] <Ng> doh
[13:45] <ScottK> lool: Are you going to be able to work on the gpsd MIR?  Once we build KDE against gpsd it affects packaging in several of the packages and I'd rather get it done sooner than later....
[14:40] <panda|x201> Keybuk, Hi, around?
[14:43] <ScottK> ccheney: Could I please have a test case for #588723 for the SRU.
[14:44] <ccheney> ScottK, ok will see if i can find the most recent bug/document i received about it
[14:45] <ScottK> ccheney: Thanks.
[14:45] <ccheney> any sufficiently complex document written in a microsoft font should work, but i have one i know shows up poorly on kubuntu if i can find it again :)
[14:53] <ccheney> ScottK, found the original bug and noted it in the report
[14:53] <ScottK> Thanks.
[16:38] <ScottK> ccheney: ttf-liberation is added in Maverick and uploaded to Lucid Proposed for Kubuntu.
[16:38] <ccheney> ScottK, wonderful :)
[16:38] <ccheney> ScottK, thanks!
[16:38] <ScottK> No problem.  Thanks for letting us know.
[16:56] <ccheney> ScottK, oh we probably need it on the netbook version also for the same reason, i noticed ubuntu-netbook doesn't have it either
[17:04] <ccheney> ScottK, do you think i should file a separate bug about the ubuntu-netbook issue or just add another task?
[19:38] <Gadi> hi, all. how does ubuntu preseed network manager on a livecd such that it automatically tries to set up the wireless network? I am having trouble finding where the magic is
[19:55] <ScottK> ccheney: My fix covered Kubuntu Netbook Remix.  No idea about UNE.
[19:55] <ccheney> ScottK, ok
[19:56] <ccheney> davidm, would you like a separate bug from 588723 for UNE?
[20:01] <davidm> ccheney, UNE is cared for by rickspencer3 so you might check in with him.
[20:01] <ccheney> davidm, oh yea i forgot it moved
[20:01] <didrocks> ccheney: well, I hoped you knew I was in charge of UNE :)
[20:01] <ccheney> didrocks, yea somehow slipped my mind, heh
[20:01] <ccheney> didrocks, see 588723
[20:02] <didrocks> ccheney: can you open a new task on the same bug, please and assign to me?
[20:02] <didrocks> I'll take care on Monday, time for early week-end :)
[20:11] <ccheney> didrocks, ok
[20:11] <didrocks> ccheney: thanks
[20:32] <slangasek> kirkland: any chance I can assign bug #587858 to you, since it's your patch causing the delay? :)
[20:33] <kirkland> slangasek: sure
[20:34] <slangasek> kirkland: done, ta
[20:34] <kirkland> slangasek: i won't be looking at this soon, but i'll keep it on my plate
[20:34] <slangasek> I wouldn't be looking at it any sooner :)
[20:40] <flupke> hello, I'm making my first package, could someone explain me the "Starndards-Version" field of control files ? Can I just leave the "3.8.333" that I found in another package and forget about it ?
[20:40] <ebroder> flupke: That's the version of Debian Policy that your package is compliant with
[20:41] <flupke> ebroder, yep I read that in the docs, however I'm not sure what version of Debian Policy my package complies with (and where to find these versions)
[20:41] <slangasek> flupke: do you mean 3.8.3?  You should never see 3.8.333 in that field; when packaging you should use the current Debian Policy version number there, and make sure in the process that your package /complies/ with that version too :)
[20:41] <slangasek> flupke: apt-get install debian-policy
[20:42] <flupke> slangasek, ok thanks !
[20:58] <jdub> doko_: you about? (q. about clang/dragonegg)
[21:34] <arand> Do I need to use gpg in order to send to ubuntu-devel? I sent a post way before UDS about swap-to-file which still hasn't cropped up...
[21:41] <arand> ...and I've had no response as to it being rejected (is there one? if not there should be I think, if simply automated).
[21:46] <geser> arand: most likely it's still in the moderation queue
[21:46] <ajmitch> I don't think there are many people who do moderation on u-d, sadly
[21:47] <arand> Then that queue must be fairly long by now... I reckon.
[21:50] <arand> I mean it would be simple enough to just state that ubuntu-devel is only for registered, and -discuss is for all else, if it's in practice "impossible" to post anything to -devel anyways it's likely better to inform that this is the case. I wouldn't mind it, just as long as it was clear. ( I guess CJW [listed as mod] has quite a lot of things on his hands otherwise...)
[21:52] <LLStarks> slomo, is the gstreamer aware that -bad is busted in maverick and has been for almost 10 days?
[21:52] <LLStarks> *team aware
[21:52] <LLStarks> the directfb update killed it
[22:30] <ajmitch> morning


 I am running Feisty on my notebook and the Update Manager just uninstalled the Gaim and ubuntu-desktop packages. Is that intentional or a bug?
[06:17] <Fujitsu> Sebastian, please see /topic. Use #ubuntu+1 for support with Feisty.
[06:17] <Sebastian> Okay, thanks.
[10:08] <giskard> morning
[03:03] <hunger> Any idea when ooo will be upgradeable again? Currently it seems to be blocked by the langpacks.
[03:03] <tsmithe> yeah...
[03:03] <tsmithe> i just went ahead with it ;)
[03:13] <Ingar> h.
[03:41] <bddebian> Heya
[04:34] <zyga> hello
[06:57] <highvoltage> !seen dholbach
[06:58] <thom> he's in austria isn't he?
[07:05] <bhale> hi thom
[07:13] <thom> hey dude. good xmas?
[07:13] <bhale> good, you?
[07:13] <thom> yeah. familied to death, but y'know :-)
[07:13] <bhale> im with you
[07:14] <bhale> (im still here suffering)
[07:14] <bhale> i thought it would be a good idea to stay through new years instead of another 4 hours in the car
[07:14] <bhale> I was wrong
[07:14] <thom> ahr
[07:15] <thom> i can understand not doing 4 hours in the car. but yeah, there comes a point when it's good to get back to your own plae fer sure
[07:15] <bddebian> bhale: heh
[08:33] <philip> so I hear tkamppeter made Brother laser printers work out of the box now. Can anyone confirm?
[10:06] <alex-weej> https://bugs.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gtk+2.0/+bug/77443
[10:06] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 77443 in gtk+2.0 "Re-using rasterisations of unhinted glyphs is unsafe" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]
[10:06] <alex-weej> is that in the right package?
[10:06] <alex-weej> i'd like to know so i can forward it upstream if necessary
[11:08] <ernstp> anyone good at dealing with HAL?
[11:08] <mdke> pitti is good, I think
[11:08] <ernstp> I'm trying to get hal to list my soundcard for jokosher, but I'm not really sure where to start
[11:08] <ernstp> it lists some soundblaster cards so that should be a good start...
[11:09] <ernstp> he's not in this channel by that name...
[11:10] <mdke> correct
[11:11] <mdke> a bug report would probably be the best start
[11:11] <ernstp> I filed one, I'm just eager to fix it :-)
[11:12] <mdke> did you get any feedback about how to fix it?
[11:13] <ernstp> no, I filed it 5 minutes ago :-)
[11:13] <mdke> oh right
[11:13] <mdke> hopefully someone will
[11:26] <ernstp> could it be something missing from /usr/share/misc/pci.ids perhaps?!
[11:56] <ernstp> can I subscribe a team to a bug in launchpad some way?
[11:58] <mdke> sure
[11:58] <mdke> ernstp: ^
[11:58] <ernstp> mdke: how?
[11:59] <mdke> ernstp: you click on "Subscribe Someone Else"
[11:59] <somerville32> ernstp: Same way you'd subscribe another person.
[11:59] <somerville32> :)
[12:00] <ernstp> ah, it said Person so clearly I thought I couldn't subscribe a team there
[12:00] <mdke> Teams are people too
[12:01] <somerville32> \o/


[00:36] <ahoneybun> damn flo stable images do not have working bluetooth
[01:07] <_I_G_O_R__> any smart people out there have any recommendations of ways to go about installing python 2.76 on ubuntu touch? perhaps first answer here? http://askubuntu.com/questions/101591/how-do-i-install-python-2-7-2-on-ubuntu    ... i had a bricked nexus 7 the first time i tried  until i realized i could flash it while it sat in the the ubuntu recovery menu, would not recognize as device
[01:07] <_I_G_O_R__> i see python3 on there and thats fun but this project is too time consuming to be taking time out to learn and convert to 3 at the moment
[01:07] <_I_G_O_R__> my project, not your project, that is
[01:09] <_I_G_O_R__> any recommendations would be much appreciated, however im not particularly comfortable with pyenv or the snake-guys ppa
[01:13] <_I_G_O_R__> not to insult those projects just want to sleep at night having sensitive materials on there
[01:15] <ahoneybun> damn bluetooth bugs
[02:58] <touchy> good morning everyone :)
[02:58] <touchy> ubuntu IDE is still downloading
[02:58] <touchy> LOL
[07:09] <jaywink> hey all. Some webapps (like MixCloud) have audio playing in the background even if screen turned off. Anyone know if any youtube apps exist that work like this?
[07:52] <anddam> hi
[08:02] <anddam> is the resolution of the external display connected to Acquaris M10 tied to the one of the builtin display?
[08:02] <anddam> i.e. does it only do mirroring or are those detached?
[08:02] <anddam> also do they work both? i.e. having it running in dual-monitor?
[08:03] <anddam> and can Touch be easily installed on a x86 tablet? (easily compared to any other ARM tablet that is more likely to have difficulties with drivers and so)
[08:06] <anddam> I see https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/start/ubuntu-for-devices/installing-ubuntu-for-devices/  says "If you are looking to install Ubuntu on a desktop computer or laptop, you can alternatively download Ubuntu Desktop."
[08:06] <anddam> are the "regular" version and ubuntu-for-devices inherently different?
[08:59] <jabawok> has anyone worked out how to send a notification to the message indicator from bash?
[09:01] <jabawok> notify-send seems to just be a one-time message that instantly dissapears without leaving a "envelope" message in the tray
[09:43] <DanChapman> jabawok, the only way i know of to do it from the cli is with gdbus. see the Register and Post methods here https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/start/platform/guides/push-notifications-server-guide/
[09:49] <jabawok> DanChapman: awesome thanks will check it out
[10:09] <sil2100> Rest coming soon!
[10:09] <MasseR> neat
[10:09] <MasseR> is there a changelog?
[10:10] <sil2100> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/ReleaseNotes/OTA-10 <- that's a rough overview, you can check the commitlog for 100% details
[10:10] <sil2100> But it's long
[10:20] <arnaudober3> I hope I will have the update proposed today! :D
[10:51] <Mirv> mardy: do you have time to test the qtbase update from the silo, it has been waiting since Monday evening? the sooner it gets published to xenial the better.
[10:52] <mardy> Mirv: I did it already :-) I set it as Lander-approved
[10:56] <Mirv> mardy: ah, ok great, I didn't poll the ticket! :)
[10:57] <Mirv> mardy: actually it's still empty, the field at https://requests.ci-train.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/1215
[10:57] <Mirv> maybe the bileto doesn't like you
[10:59] <mardy> Mirv: now it should be ok
[11:00] <Mirv> mardy: looks so, thanks
[11:51] <anddam> is the M10 out already?
[11:51] <anddam> will an user be able to install Ubuntu on a "regular" M10 if he bought it with android?
[11:52] <anddam> BQ supports replied to my ticket asking if the resolution of the HDMI display was tied to the builtin one, but avoided actually answering the topic
[11:59] <k1l> you could flash ubuntu-touch onto the bq smartphones shipping with android. but i can not guarantee that will work with the tablet.
[12:06] <ogra_> you will need to re-partition so you need to flash using a vendor tool (MTK tool)
[12:06] <ogra_> with the right partition table files
[12:07] <ogra_> beyond that it should just work
[12:10] <ogra_> yay
[12:10] <ogra_> htop working in libertine
[12:10] <ogra_> (with some hackery of the .desktop file though)
[12:14] <ogra_> ChrisTownsend, http://paste.ubuntu.com/15646641/ ... (still very rough, but it seems to work pretty well (except for the dbus issues)
[12:14] <ogra_> (creates a container in your writable space, installs the package you want and creates a desktop file)
[12:15] <ChrisTownsend> ogra_: Hey, I figured out the dbus issue.
[12:15] <ogra_> what is it ?
[12:16] <ChrisTownsend> ogra_: So libertine-launch fires off libertine-session-bridge and then starts the app, but there is a race between libertine-session-bridge being fully ready and the app running.
[12:16] <ogra_> ah
[12:16] <ChrisTownsend> ogra_: So I need to take better care of making sure libertine-session-bridge is up and running first, but I have a little hack to make it work.
[12:16] <ogra_> cool
[12:17] <ChrisTownsend> ogra_: Give me a moment and I'll paste a little diff here.
[12:17] <ChrisTownsend> ogra_: But once that is fixed, there is another issue that is easily resolved.
[12:19] <ChrisTownsend> ogra_: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/15646787/
[12:20] <ChrisTownsend> ogra_: 1 second should be enough time, but adjust as necessary.  I'm going to work on a proper fix:)
[12:20] <anddam> is Touch running on top of android or is it a bare metal system?
[12:21] <ChrisTownsend> ogra_: Once you apply that diff, you'll need to run "$ proot -S ~/.cache/libertine-container/${container_id}/rootfs ldconfig.REAL"
[12:21] <ogra_> ChrisTownsend, cool, i'll try that this evening with vlc
[12:21] <ChrisTownsend> ogra_: Cool.  I have vlc running now on a Unity 8 desktop.
[12:22] <ogra_> neat !
[12:22] <anddam> I'm totally fascinated by the tablet concept turning into full desktop UI but somehow I assumed that the system running on the tablet was a "vanilla" ubuntu
[12:22]  * ogra_ wants .m3u8 support working :)
[12:22] <ogra_> anddam, that wouldnt work, there are no drivers for the HW
[12:22] <ogra_> they are all closed source android binaries
[12:24] <ogra_> (GPS, graphics drivers, sensors ... and on phones the whole modem stack)
[12:24] <anddam> mm I see
[12:25] <anddam> so it's an ubuntu layer on top of android
[12:25] <ogra_> so what we do is to actually boot into a vanilla ubuntu (in a special readonly setup for the OTA upgrade process though) ... and then during the boot process we fire up a minimal android container that manages the drivers
[12:26] <anddam> oh, so I was wrong still
[12:26] <anddam> the android bit runs in a container
[12:26] <ogra_> no, it is an android container inside of ubuntu :)
[12:26] <anddam> that's much more interesting
[12:26] <ogra_> about 100-200MB (differs per device)
[12:26] <anddam> what about x86 devices?
[12:27] <anddam> with a "regular" firmware and all
[12:27] <ogra_> you could theoretically use a normal x86 install and have a ubity8 session on top of that
[12:27] <anddam> can one buy a window (ugh) tablet and perform a plain install on that
[12:27] <anddam> I see
[12:27] <ogra_> but then you will only have the HW that the mainline kernel supports
[12:27] <anddam> I figure ubity8 is a UI
[12:28] <anddam> I'm really new to this, I just saw the tablet video promo a couple days ago
[12:28] <ogra_> yes, thats the new phone and upcoming desktop UI
[12:28] <anddam> will it make into "base" system?
[12:28] <anddam> i.e. a single code base for all devices?
[12:28] <ogra_> one day, yes
[12:28] <anddam> (actually that's what the site seemed to suggest)
[12:28] <anddam> nice
[12:28] <ogra_> it still has its rough edges today
[12:29] <anddam> totally understandable
[12:29] <ogra_> but before next LTS i would assume it to become the default
[12:29] <anddam> I wonder if that ubuntu phone got crowdfunded back then what the status would be
[12:29] <anddam> I remember following that in 2013 or 2014
[12:30] <anddam> about being limited to the hardware mainline kernel support, what limit would that be?
[12:30] <anddam> consider I'm referring to a tablet usage, no cellular network involved
[12:30] <anddam> supports*
[12:33] <ogra_> well, you would need to convince hardware manufacturers to open their drivers
[12:34] <ogra_> or at least open the HW specs to the community so they can write open drivers
[12:35] <anddam> but isn't a tablet with, say, an Intel CPU with builtin GPU already well supported?
[12:35] <anddam> or what hardware are you thinking about?
[12:35] <ogra_> well, tablets with intelö CPU are rare ... but yes, the graphics would work
[12:36] <anddam> not so rare, look for "window tablets", there are a lot of HP, lenovo, Acer, Asus
[12:36] <anddam> the usual suspects of notebook selling
[12:36] <anddam> with an ARM device I could see the issue
[12:36] <ogra_> that are notebooks without keyboards :)
[12:36] <anddam> yep, fine by me
[12:37] <ogra_> the android based intel trablets usually have poulsbo graphics though
[12:37] <anddam> I wonder what happened of that open source Mali driver that should have come with Novena Kosagi laptop
[12:37] <ogra_> which means a completely closed driver
[12:37] <anddam> "poulsbo"?
[12:37] <ogra_> google it
[12:37] <anddam> Poulsbo, Washington
[12:37] <ogra_> "poulsbo intel"
[12:37] <anddam> mmm I don't get it
[12:37] <ogra_> or linux ...
[12:38] <ogra_> that driver is even worse than nvidias
[12:38] <anddam> ah I see
[12:38] <ogra_> for that you'd again need the android container to get anything on screen
[12:38] <ogra_> so it is totalyl device specific ...
[12:38] <anddam> The graphics core is called GMA 500 and unlike most graphics cores used by Intel was developed by Imagination Technologies
[12:39] <anddam> aren't they MIPS?
[12:39] <ogra_> right
[12:39] <anddam> (or better acquired it)
[12:39] <ogra_> Imagination produces graphics chips ... not sure they also do CPUs
[12:39] <anddam> PowerVR
[12:39] <ogra_> right
[12:40] <anddam> so the graphic driver could still be a show stopper
[12:41] <ogra_> not as long as you have an android source tree
[12:41] <ogra_> then you can use the container model
[12:41] <JanC> Imagination bought MIPS some time ago indeed
[12:41] <ogra_> for the "laptops without kbd" you can surely just use a normal ubuntu install (with all its drawbacks)
[12:42] <JanC> so they sell both CPU & GPU core designs nowadays
[12:42] <ogra_> ah, i didnt know ;)
[12:42] <JanC> (they don't produce chips AFAIK)
[12:45] <anddam> and with that normal ubuntu install approach ubity8 is the UI I see at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h384z7Ph0gU#t=2m8s , right?
[12:49] <ogra_> not yet ... but you can install unity8 on a unity7 install
[12:53] <anddam> oh so that was a typo, I thought "ubity" was a specific thing for Touch
[12:53] <anddam> silly me
[12:54] <anddam> so the easiest thing is to just buy the tablet shipped with Ubuntu from BQ
[12:54] <ogra_> yeah
[12:55] <ogra_> though dont expect miracles ... it has 2GB ram ...
[12:55] <ogra_> thats in the range of a low end netbook
[13:08] <anddam> that's why I was aiming at the windows tablets, those easily come with 4gb of ram in the same price span
[13:11] <ogra_> right, but it will be up tio you to maintain it ...
[13:11] <anddam> yep, that's on the opposite direction of "I just want to use this thing"
[13:12] <ogra_> right
[13:12] <anddam> this is a harsh, demanding world
[13:12] <ogra_> not to mention that you support bq and canonical when buying it :)
[13:12] <anddam> https://www.crowdsupply.com/sutajio-kosagi/novena/updates/1028 this is what I was referring to
[13:13] <anddam> it was a Vivante open source driver for the i.MX6
[13:13] <anddam> having Canonical hardware would be neat, maybe a reboot of the crowdfunding could be viable now
[13:14] <anddam> it didn't reached the goal but I see it raised 12 M$ back then and that's a lot of money
[13:14] <ogra_> yeah, i doubt canonical w3ill ever do hardware ... bq is the perfect partner though
[13:16] <anddam> a partner with reliable production is second best, I guess
[13:17] <dobey> the edge would have been made by a partner company, not canonical
[13:17] <anddam> but BQ's production is a bit confusing, and they don't even list the ubuntu phones
[13:17] <dobey> google doesn't make their hardware either, though
[13:17] <anddam> dobey: right, but they brand it
[13:18] <dobey> yes, and google has plenty of resources to do whatever they want
[13:18] <anddam> eh pretty much
[13:19] <anddam> btw do you know if the external display on tablet is tied to the builtin display's size?
[13:19] <dobey> it's not
[13:19] <anddam> or if the GPU can drive different resolutions
[13:19] <anddam> oh good
[13:20] <ogra_> bq definitely lists the ubuntu phones in theior store
[13:20] <anddam> where? I'm looking at http://www.bq.com/uk/smartphones
[13:20] <dobey> if you look at the right store
[13:20] <anddam> and which one is that?
[13:20] <anddam> oh via ubuntu's website
[13:20] <anddam> https://store.bq.com/gl/ubuntu-edition-e5
[13:21] <dobey> they're in the other european stores
[13:21] <dobey> maybe they don't sell them in uk any more. i see the android versions of the same phones are also not listed on the uk page
[13:21] <anddam> oh right, funny thing is I'm not even in UK
[13:21] <anddam> it's in my country's store
[13:21] <ogra_> it is on the global page "gl"
[13:21] <anddam> my bad
[13:22] <dobey> where global is "europe"
[13:22] <anddam> I figure BQ is Spanish
[13:22] <ogra_> yep
[13:22] <anddam> since I see half-spanish sentences in the description
[13:26] <anddam> all in all I'd like a device very powerful, yet light, with long battery life, that I could fit in my pocket, that could be the center of my digital life and that could easily teleport me on the Enterprise bridge
[13:27] <ogra_> just wait 10 years
[13:27] <anddam> you're not thinking fourt-dimensionally, Marty
[13:28] <ogra_> heh
[13:28] <anddam> I figure we'll get there, meanwhile I'll check the M10
[13:29] <anddam> after all with current smartphones we're already going around with sort of tricorders
[13:29] <anddam> who 10 years ago could have foreseen this kind of development?
[13:29] <ogra_> :)
[13:30]  * dobey
[13:31] <k1l> i guess the one would be a billionaire now :)
[13:32] <dobey> i wish
[13:33] <anddam> he said, caressing his stack of ARM Holdings plc's shares…
[13:34] <anddam> (I don't actually know if their shares did good)
[13:34] <sergiusens> pmcgowan, hey, do you use the twitter scope? When I "open on twitter" from the scope it goes to the browser instead of the twitter webapp, I have a feeling it is not using the url-dispatcher for this
[13:36] <ogra_> sergiusens, i have the feeling there is something wrong with url-dispatcher in general, i just had a pdf that didnt offer me any app to open
[13:36] <ogra_> (document viewer is installed)
[13:37] <ogra_> (pdf in a website that is)
[13:37] <MasseR> I also noticed something similar from file-browser
[13:38] <anddam> oh wow, ARM Holdings shares went 10x in 10 years
[13:38] <anddam> and even more wow google finance and yahoo finance actually do use Flash (!)
[13:39] <sergiusens> ogra_, the webbrowser itself does not use url-dispatcher at all as oSoMoN mentioned many times :-)
[13:39] <ogra_> oh ?
[13:39] <ogra_> what is the window i get when i pick "download that link" ?
[13:39] <ogra_> it definitely looks like the url dispatcher window
[13:40] <ogra_> (from the long-press context menu)
[13:40] <anddam> thanks for all the info
[13:40] <pmcgowan> sergiusens, I don't use it
[13:41] <pmcgowan> hmm
[13:41] <pmcgowan> ogra_, urldisptacher or content hub
[13:53] <ogra_> pmcgowan, dunno, the thing that lets you select an app to open a file :P
[13:53] <pmcgowan> thats content hub, did it offer you any apps?
[13:53] <ogra_> no
[13:53] <ogra_> not a single one
[13:54] <pmcgowan> hmm same issue reported on the mailing list
[13:54] <pmcgowan> can you check your conf
[13:54] <pmcgowan> one sec
[13:54] <ogra_> i could copy the link, paste it in the terminal app to wget and download it ... then i could open it with document viewer
[13:55] <pmcgowan> ogra_, dconf dump /
[13:55] <pmcgowan> should show entries for [com/ubuntu/content/hub/destination], [com/ubuntu/content/hub/share]  and [com/ubuntu/content/hub/source]
[13:56] <ogra_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/15650915/
[13:56] <pmcgowan> that looks ok
[13:56] <ogra_> yeah
[13:56] <pmcgowan> what going on
[13:56] <pmcgowan> kenvandine, ^^
[13:57] <ogra_> pmcgowan, alos ... on fireza the reboot option sometimes only restarts the dash
[13:58] <pmcgowan> report bugs I suppose then
[13:58] <ogra_> yep
[13:58] <pmcgowan> maybe it crashes the shell before doing the reboot
[13:59]  * ogra_ really loves libertine ... so much fun
[14:00] <ogra_> proper xterm ftw *g*
[14:02] <mike00> hi all, have you seen the update?
[14:03] <ogra_> you want an update about the update ?
[14:05]  * kenvandine reads
[14:07] <mike00> yes ,please
[14:07] <kenvandine> ogra_, what happens when you try to download a pdf from http://www.mikeasoft.com/research/
[14:08] <kenvandine> that's what i use when testing :)
[14:09] <ogra_> kenvandine, i get a popup in the middle of the screen when i tap it
[14:09] <ogra_> and i dont get the download option at all in the long-press menu
[14:09] <ogra_> thats different
[14:11] <ogra_> kenvandine, http://www.hackster.io/vocore/products
[14:11] <ogra_> kenvandine, scroll down, there is a "datasheet" link
[14:11] <ogra_> woah
[14:12] <ogra_> and that works too now ... (i rebooted since i had the issue)
[14:13] <mike00> what do you think about the new interface?
[14:15] <mike00> I don't like the new Switch...
[14:15] <kenvandine> weird
[14:15] <kenvandine> ogra_, so you're good?
[14:15] <ogra_> kenvandine, until it happens next time, yeah :)
[14:16] <mike00> but what are the main changes with ota 10?
[14:17] <dobey> a lot
[14:18] <mike00> I saw only the VPN and the mouse in settings...
[14:18] <ogra_> something around 220 bugs fixed
[14:20] <ogra_> ah, even more ...
[14:20] <ogra_> https://plus.google.com/+BogdanB/posts/8nGDma5aiRG
[14:21] <mike00> what is it?
[14:21] <ogra_> there is a link to the details
[14:22] <kenvandine> mterry, looking at your timezone-name branch, since that's a private API only used in that plugin i don't think we really need to bump the API version
[14:22] <mike00> details of what? I saw it but i didn't understand
[14:22] <kenvandine> unless that is used somewhere else, like the wizard?
[14:22]  * kenvandine hasn't looked at the wizard lately
[14:23] <ogra_> mike00, the issues that have been fixed between ota 9.1 and ota 10
[14:23] <mike00> ah
[14:23] <mike00> thanks
[14:23] <mike00> but why the version is still 15.04?
[14:23] <mterry> kenvandine: unity8 wizard uses it to set timezone on first boot
[14:23] <ogra_> because that is what the bottom layer is using
[14:24] <kenvandine> mterry, ok, that's what i needed to know.  then i'm fine with bumping the version
[14:25] <mterry> kenvandine: it was recently added to wizard for ota10
[14:26] <kenvandine> mterry, great, we needed that!
[14:35] <dobey> mike00: because migrating to a newer base version of ubuntu for the phone images is an extremely complicated non-trivial task
[14:35] <mike00> thanks
[14:36] <dobey> because 15.10 has gcc5, which breaks binary compat, and would thus break many things in the store
[14:36] <ogra_> all development happens on top of that bottom layer anyway
[14:36] <ogra_> (the phone is not bound to the distro release schedule)
[14:43] <mike00> but why the design is all so flat??? I don't like the keyboard now... and neither the Switches...
[14:43] <ogra_> you will have to ask the design team :)
[14:43] <mike00> is there a IRC channel?
[14:44] <ogra_> mpt, do you guys have an IRC channel ? (the last one i knew was the ayatana one, i guess thats dead nowadays)
[14:51] <mike00> after the update, I saw the bluetooth doesn't work at all: I have an audio device and when it is Switched on the phone sholud connect automatically, and it happend but when I raise the volume I see "speakers" instead "bluetooth device" and when I play a song I listen to it drom the phone speakres...
[14:51] <mike00> from the phone speakers*
[14:56] <dobey> hmm, nexus4 doesn't find my jawbone
[15:03] <arnaudober3> I updated my phone, BQ Aquaris E5. After the update, I have Gmail and Dekko, Here Maps and uNav. Is it not a "bug" to have two applications which do approximately the same things? (and Dekko and uNav are native by the way, not Here Maps and Gmail...)
[15:08] <dobey> arnaudober3: system updates don't remove apps you installed from the store, for sure
[15:09] <dobey> and i think HERE is how the agps stuff is enabled
[15:09] <mike00> I connected the phone to the pc via usb and I opened the SDK. the phone ask me if allow usb debug, but are there some usb debug settings, like "always wake"?
[15:09] <arnaudober3> @dobey: Yeah I know, but Here Maps and GMail were installed by default on my phone. ;) I didn't downloaded them. :/
[15:09] <mike00> 'cause when I try to execute an app on the phone I always have to unlock the screen...
[15:10] <dobey> arnaudober3: did you install updates to them?
[15:10] <dobey> mike00: no. "usb debug" is just adb
[15:10] <mike00> ok
[15:11] <dobey> mike00: "enable usb debugging" is also what the android UI calls it
[15:11] <arnaudober3> @dobey: Yeah, it's possible. :/
[15:11] <mike00> Yeah, i know
[15:37] <keesj> Hi
[15:38] <keesj> I am trying to follow https://wiki2.ubports.com/wiki/Installation-of-ubuntu-touch-on-fairphone
[15:38] <keesj> but getting http://paste.ubuntu.com/15653382/
[15:39] <keesj> Target device cannot be reached over adb
[15:39] <keesj> however this is most probably not the real problem but something else
[15:40] <keesj> (strace log http://paste.ubuntu.com/15653422/
[15:40] <keesj> )
[15:41] <pmcgowan> mhall119, ^
[15:58] <mhall119> keesj: I think the Fairphone 2 still requires a hack to get adb working
[15:58] <mhall119> mariogrip: ^^ can you confirm and help keesj ?
[15:58] <keesj> we can continue here.
[15:58] <mariogrip> mhall119: we are over at the #fairphone channel
[15:59] <mariogrip> ok
[15:59] <mhall119> mariogrip: ack, thanks
[16:00] <mariogrip> mhall119: some news on when to update/refresh the docs, people tell me it's really hard even when they follow the porting guide
[16:03] <mhall119> mariogrip: are you asking or telling?
[16:03] <mariogrip> both
[16:07] <mariogrip> mhall119: also, have you got your new device?
[16:09] <mhall119> not yet :/
[16:20] <dobey> anyone else have a jawbone era headset? it doesn't show up in the bt settings of my mako when trying to pair it
[16:26] <ogra_> ChrisTownsend, so what else did you have to do for vlc ... the sleep alone seems not enough
[16:27] <ogra_> (i dont get any dbus error anymore, but it still fails with "no dialogs provider found")
[16:32] <ogra_> ChrisTownsend, oh, ignore that ... forgot the ldconfig call
[16:32] <ogra_> work !
[16:32] <ogra_> *works
[16:34] <ChrisTownsend> ogra_: Cool!  I've entered bug reports for the two bugs, so I'll get those fixed soon-ish.
[16:34] <ogra_> cool !
[19:20] <Isotop7> my arale isnt able to get gps signals in unav and here...any ideas how to troubleshoot this?
[19:21] <Isotop7> also, is there a way to reflash imei on arale after coming back from cyanogenmod?
[19:25] <pmcgowan> Isotop7, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Process/Merges/TestPlan/location-service#Forensics
[19:26] <pmcgowan> Isotop7, do you have the Here stuff enabled? its much better with it
[19:26] <Isotop7> pmcgowan: ty
[19:26] <Isotop7> pmcgowan: here stuff?
[19:27] <Isotop7> you mean location based on gps and anonymous data?
[19:27] <pmcgowan> there is agps capability
[19:27] <pmcgowan> using wifi aps and such
[19:27] <ogra_> Flashing cyanogenmod might have touched firmware blob partitions we do not touch
[19:28] <ogra_> (especially if you say your IMEI is gone)
[19:31] <Isotop7> ogra_: in cm i could reflash nvram.img with my MP0B_001 containing my imei but in ut this does not work...
[19:34] <ogra_> ubuntu-device-flash explicitly leaves all factory partitions alone... If you wiped something of that I don't know how you could get it back
[19:35] <Isotop7> ogra_ ty anyway :)
[19:36] <Isotop7> overall im pretty satisfied with the better performance and more functions in comparisons to early versions i tested :)
[19:36] <Isotop7> congrats
[19:36] <ogra_> Yep, getting there... It gets better every 6 weeks... Like a clockwork
[19:37]  * BOHverkill updates his e4.5 to ota-10 and gets excited
[19:56] <tedg> popey: Do you know where I could find the amd64 click for ubuntu terminal?
[19:57] <popey> tedg: do you mind a multi-arch one?
[19:57] <popey> or do you specifically want amd64 only?
[19:57] <tedg> popey: multi arch is fine
[19:58] <tedg> popey: I just want it installable :-)
[19:59] <popey> tedg: http://people.canonical.com/~alan/com.ubuntu.terminal_0.7.180_multi.click
[19:59] <dobey> oh, the one in the store isn't multi any more :(
[20:00] <popey> seemed pointless given there was no platform it could be installed on
[20:01] <dobey> emulator?
[20:02] <tedg> popey: Thanks!
[20:02] <dobey> but yeah, it's somewhat not nice that you can use unity8 on 16.04, but any c++ stuff you install from store probably won't work, because of gcc5
[21:07] <Umeaboy> Hi!
[21:07] <Umeaboy> Any images been made for the Sony Xperia Z3 Compact Tablet?
[21:15] <pmcgowan> !devices
[21:15] <ubot5`> You can find the full list of devices, official images, community images, and works in progress at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
[21:40] <Umeaboy> Seems like the first model is supported.
[21:40] <Umeaboy> scorpion_windy.
[21:53] <Acou_Bass> :D my nexus 4 arrived today, flashed ubuntu touch on it in a matter of minutes, im impressed just by that :D


[06:22] <berglh> is everything going slack these days?
[19:29] <Noskcaj> rtcoder, ask away, someone will answer eventually
[19:31] <rtcoder> ok, first of all, I got an error in Ubuntu, I ran some apt-get command, forgot what, I think I was installing or updating something, and it told me it had an error installing some ttf-core-font or someting along those lines. I don't remember what it said and I don't think I can reproduce it. Does anyone know what that's about?
[19:36] <Noskcaj> rtcoder, it's quite hard to make bugs of things you can't reproduce, maybe try searching launchpad for something. "apt-get install -f" may attempt to fix it and let you see the issue
[19:37] <rtcoder> Ok well I'll solve that later, secondly, will it be possible to install Ubuntu touch on all Android tablets eventually, or jsut the ones that are said to be supported?
[19:38] <Noskcaj> Currently it requires a level of driver porting to work, but it's possible they will just work at some point in the future
[22:24] <faemir> Hey all - if I've installed ubuntu, then gnome-desktop, what's the best way to remove unity without uninstalling things that I shouldn't?
[22:37] <georgeowell> faemir, don't :)
[22:37] <georgeowell> Is HD space a concern?
[22:38] <georgeowell> If it's working, I would just leave it be.
[22:39] <faemir> Ah not really, I'll leave it then, thanks.
[22:41] <georgeowell> yeh, it's probably a good idea.
[22:42] <georgeowell> I think that tech podcast guy Leo Lepore tried to install XFCE and remove unity and completely borked his install.
[22:42] <georgeowell> Apparently that's Linux's fault


[20:03] <ibeardslee> morning
[20:44] <olly> Morning
[20:57] <mwhudson> an interesting theory
[21:00] <ajmitch> greetings
[21:34] <hads> morning


[18:11] <thorwil> mpt, newz2000: would you be so kind to add testimonials to my wiki page for my membership application? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThorstenWilms
[18:23] <mpt> thorwil, done
[18:23] <mpt> with pleasure :-)
[18:29] <newz2000> thorwil: it would be my pleasure
[18:54] <thorwil> thank you, mpt!
[18:54] <thorwil> thank you, newz2000!
[18:54] <newz2000> my pleasure. ;-) I think you'll get approved.
[20:27] <qense> I can't get the spaces right in [[#Section head]] links on the wiki. How can you do that?
[22:18]  * newz2000 has never done that


[00:46] <tomswartz07> I didnt get a chance to look, but does anyone know offhand if there is a bug filed about the screen lock timeout set to 'never' immediately blanking the screen?
[00:47] <tomswartz07> specifically, after 0 seconds of inactivity, the screen fades to black (lock). Only happens when the timeout is set to 'never'.
[00:50] <mdeslaur> tomswartz07: bug 863038
[00:51] <tomswartz07> splendid thanks mdeslaur
[00:52] <tomswartz07> to avoid it, i switched to tty, and its too difficult to search launchpad using 'links'
[04:11] <pitti> Good morning
[04:12] <ajmitch> morning pitti
[05:05] <pitti> ogasawara, apw: do we need a -meta bump for the -headers-lbm stuff on http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.txt ?
[06:55] <tkamppeter> pitti, hi
[07:03] <dholbach> good morning
[07:17] <dholbach> @pilot in
[07:41] <pitti> diwic: you can still upload a new pulse if necessary (for fixing patch application)
[07:48] <dholbach> cjwatson, regarding https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-meld3/+bug/749880 - should I unsubscribe sponsors for now as you're handling it?
[07:48] <cjwatson> dholbach: as you like, it's actually just waiting for SRU review at this point
[07:48] <dholbach> ah ok
[07:49] <cjwatson> but if you'd prefer to get it out of the queue that's fine; I've subscribed directly now
[07:50] <dholbach__> you're right - I could've just changed the natty queue :)
[08:05] <dholbach> pitti, how do you feel about getting gnome-color-manager 3.2.0 in now? it's in universe, and while it's not 100% bugfixes only it looks like it fixes a whole bunch of bugs
[08:05] <pitti> RAOF: ^ any opinion?
[08:06] <dholbach> https://code.launchpad.net/~jbicha/ubuntu/oneiric/gnome-color-manager/3.2/+merge/77637
[08:06] <pitti> dholbach: hm, so it seems nobody packaged the further 3.1.x releases :(
[08:06] <dholbach> if you want, I can pastebin the news file
[08:06] <pitti> dholbach: I'd say, upload it, and we'll review it from the queue; unless you already see that it has new unsatisfyable build deps or so
[08:06] <dholbach> no no, it builds fine
[08:06] <pitti> NEWS is in the MP
[08:07] <dholbach> http://paste.ubuntu.com/703253/
[08:07] <dholbach> ah ok
[08:08] <dholbach> ok, will do
[08:08] <pitti> meh, who changed devscripts to use "precise" by default
[08:08] <pitti> shouldn't we only do that _in_ precise, not already in oneiric?
[08:13] <diwic> pitti, yeah, I think we should upload a new pulseaudio (if it makes it to the RC, that'd be great!), my question was more about the workflow, kinda where to apply what
[08:14] <pitti> diwic: you mean how to correctly apply the patches? I can have a look at the package, if you tell me what is wrong
[08:14] <infinity> pitti:
[08:14] <infinity> devscripts (2.11.1ubuntu2) oneiric; urgency=low
[08:14] <infinity>   * debchange: Add precise, and make it the new default upload target.
[08:14] <infinity>  -- Stefano Rivera<EMAIL_ADDRESS>Thu, 06 Oct 2011 01:27:08 +0200
[08:15] <pitti> a bit premature IMHO; if anything, this should have switched to oneiric-proposed :)
[08:15] <pitti> anyway, not a biggie
[08:15] <infinity> pitti: Heh.
[08:15] <infinity> The default is wrong for me 99% of the time anyway.
[08:15] <infinity> Chroots, Debian vs Ubuntu, etc, etc.
[08:16] <diwic> pitti, my question is more about lp:~ubuntu-audio-dev/pulseaudio/ubuntu.oneiric - I mean, should I ignore it today and make a debdiff for you to sponsor, or should I try to import ScottK 's change to the tree, then apply my stuff on top of that?
[08:17] <pitti> hm, I really don't know
[08:58] <pitti> diwic: FYI, RC is around Monday, so still time
[08:59] <pitti> today is a good day still for targetted patches which have a very low regression risk
[09:00] <diwic> pitti, I just pushed ScottK's stuff and mine on top of that to lp:~ubuntu-audio-dev/pulseaudio/ubuntu.oneiric
[09:01] <diwic> pitti, on dtchen's recommendation
[09:01] <diwic> pitti, feel free to sponsor
[09:07] <pitti> diwic: done; looks fine, thanks
[09:19] <ev> mvo: I just had to help John Oxton recover a partial upgrade because X/compiz crashed while he was running through it.  Have you ever thought of running update-manager under xpra or some other screen-for-X like trick?
[09:20] <ev> (xpra: http://code.google.com/p/partiwm/wiki/xpra)
[09:23] <mvo> ev: that is a excellent idea
[09:23] <mvo> ev: hrm, not packaged
[09:23] <mvo> yet
[09:23] <mvo> ;)
[09:23] <mvo> ignore me, it is
[09:24] <ev> I think I did *AGES* ago
[09:47] <diwic> pitti, I don't know if you're über-busy with Oneiric today, but if you aren't, do you know https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pulseaudio/1:0.9.22~0.9.21+stable-queue-32-g8478-0ubuntu14.1 hasn't reached lucid?
[09:48] <diwic> pitti, it's been sitting in lucid-proposed for months.
[09:48] <dholbach> can somebody help me mark https://code.launchpad.net/~psusi/ubuntu/natty/gnome-power-manager/fix-duplicate-battery/+merge/67466 as merged (r188)?
[09:49] <pitti> diwic: there's a lot of chatter on that bug 445849, but it seems nobody actually tested the proposed pacakge and gave feedback?
[09:51] <diwic> pitti / dholbach, is it the verification-needed -> verification-done stuff that's needed here?
[09:51] <pitti> diwic: less so the tag setting, but a report that someone actually tested teh -proposed package and confirms that it works
[09:51] <pitti> (i. e. not a local build, and someone who is affected by the bug)
[09:52] <dholbach> can somebody please reject https://code.launchpad.net/~bones/ubuntu/natty/radiotray/fix-for-722886/+merge/70107 (fixed in oneiric, sru rejected)
[09:53] <diwic> pitti, to complicate matters further, the lucid-proposed actually only fixes the bug for *some* people (i e amd64). I have one more patch to fix it for i386.
[09:54] <diwic> Would the right thing to do here, to make a new debdiff on top of the lucid-proposed one
[09:54] <diwic> and upload/test that to lucid-proposed again?
[09:54] <diwic> pitti, I think I could verify that one myself
[09:55] <pitti> diwic: depends; if the current version helps some people and doesn't regress others, we can also move it to -updates and then do another SRU
[09:55] <pitti> diwic: if it might regress for some people, better to do a new SRU on top of -proposed right away
[09:56] <diwic> pitti, I'd prefer the latter
[09:56] <pitti> ok, let's do that then
[09:57] <diwic> ok, I'll prepare a debdiff for 14.1 -> 14.2 (?), just having lunch first.
[09:57] <dholbach> pitti, regarding bug 722936 - could it be that the .pot file needs to be updated?
[09:58] <dholbach> or is that going to be a 'precise' thing?
[09:58] <pitti> dholbach: it should be auto-built during package build
[09:58] <pitti> dholbach: it's only in trunk right now (string freeze)
[09:59] <pitti> hm, wait
[09:59] <dholbach> ah, I checked the source package and it seems that the string was only in the .po and .pot files
[09:59] <pitti> right, but is still in ubuntu branch
[10:36] <pitti> cjwatson: want me to seed ubuntu-defaults-zh-cn and ask for a MIR review, so that we can build the image from main only? (to fix oversizedness)
[10:38] <cjwatson> if that's the only way
[10:43] <pitti> cjwatson: in my mail I pointed out some alternatives, but I think at that point it's the safest way
[10:46] <mvo> ev: I played with that a bit in lp:~mvo/update-manager/xpra-experiment but its not that encouraging, it seems to be a bit unstable
[10:47] <ev> mvo: oh? I never had any trouble running Pidgin under it, but that was admittedly about two years ago.
[10:47] <ev> very cool though - I'll have a look at the branch in a bit
[10:48] <pitti> didrocks: do you have a minute today to look at bug 869058?
[10:49] <didrocks> pitti: sure, will look at it
[10:49] <pitti> didrocks: merci
[10:49] <didrocks> pitti: I have a gtk2 version of glade parallely installable now
[10:49] <didrocks> pitti: will push it in the glade-3 source package soon
[10:49] <pitti> didrocks: oh, nice!
[10:49] <didrocks> will need BINNew and such…
[10:49] <pitti> didrocks: why not a separate source?
[10:50] <pitti> didrocks: or does hte current version still support gtk 2 with different configure options?
[10:50] <didrocks> pitti: glade-3 is already 3.8 (for the old gtk2 library needed with pygtk)
[10:50] <didrocks> glade is 3.10
[10:50] <pitti> oh, glade vs. glade-3
[10:50] <seb128> didrocks, pitti: why do we need glade-2 back?
[10:50] <didrocks> yeah
[10:50] <didrocks> seb128: because Quickly is using pygtk
[10:50] <didrocks> seb128: and 3.10 is gtk3 only
[10:51] <didrocks> like, it uses box and not hbox, vbox
[10:51] <seb128> oh ok
[10:51] <didrocks> and pygtk can't instantiate those
[10:51] <didrocks> so yeah, we need it back :/
[10:52] <didrocks> let me just readd a removed patch for expanding the treeview by default
[10:55] <didrocks> oh dch -r "" set "precise" now :)
[10:57] <didrocks> pitti: glade-3 pushed, will upload Quickly to dep and run the gtk2 flavor now
[10:58] <jml> has someone asked LP to rename p-series?
[11:39] <pitti> didrocks: thanks for the MIR
[11:39] <pitti> cjwatson: it's in main now, so cdimage can drop the --components argument now
[11:44] <didrocks> pitti: yw ;)
[11:45] <cjwatson> pitti: cdimage doesn't have it, it's in BuildLiveC
[11:45] <cjwatson> D
[11:46] <cjwatson> actually, is it
[11:47] <cjwatson> I can't find --components anywhere relevant; how did it work before?
[11:47] <cjwatson>         COMMAND="ubuntu-defaults-image --locale ${UBUNTU_DEFAULTS_LOCALE} --arch ${ARCH} --release ${STE}"
[12:02] <pitti> cjwatson: how are xubuntu/mythbuntu etc. built? Is there a lookup table somewhere mapping images to components?
[12:03] <pitti> no, that wouldn't affect u-d-image
[12:09] <cjwatson> pitti: that's in livecd-rootfs/live-build/auto/bconfig
[12:09] <dholbach> @pilot out
[12:37] <didrocks> pitti: just pushed the new lenses with the icon change and some other fixes
[12:37] <didrocks> pitti: FYI, you will see in the diff:
[12:37] <didrocks> -Icon=/usr/share/unity/4/lens-nav-app.svg
[12:37] <didrocks> +Icon=/usr/local/share/unity/4/lens-nav-app.svg
[12:37] <didrocks> this is fine, the config is rewritten during build
[12:46] <pitti> didrocks: ok, thanks for the warning
[12:46] <didrocks> pitti: yw, this thing pretty much depends on who make the tarball :)
[12:54] <ScottK> diwic: Thanks for fixing the pulseaudio issue.
[12:55] <pitti> didrocks: did you actually upload?
[12:55] <pitti> still not in the queue
[12:55] <pitti> didrocks: dch got changed to default to precise, maybe you stumbled over that?
[12:56] <didrocks> pitti: ahah, nice catch!
[12:56] <didrocks> probably :)
[12:56] <ev> mvo: ah, mpt fairly points out that the correct solution here is to port update-manager to use aptdaemon and handle bringing the UI back up when the user logs in again
[12:57] <ev> (on the xpra thing)
[12:57] <diwic> ScottK, np
[12:57] <diwic> ScottK, the same to you, btw. Was it phonon that depended on a three version string?
[12:57] <ScottK> phonon and skype AFAIK.  Probably more.
[12:59] <diwic> pitti, so for the old bug 445849, let's upload a new one to lucid-proposed: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/82117342/pulseaudio<IP_ADDRESS>.debdiff - and if noone really tests, I guess it's a wont fix for Lucid.
[12:59] <mvo> ev: yeah, that is indeed the right solution, there is even a ancient branch in this spirit lp:~mvo/update-manager/gui-seperation but it never got anywhere :(
[12:59] <mvo> ev: because of time/other stuff, but it would be really good to finish that
[12:59] <ev> indeed! :)
[13:16] <Riddell> kenvandine: do you use the UDD branches for the freeciv package?
[13:17] <kenvandine> Riddell, i think i did for the one upload i did
[13:17] <kenvandine> i can't remember for sure, i've only touched it once :)
[13:19] <ogasawara> pitti: linux-meta is at <IP_ADDRESS>.4 so it should be the correct abi to match lbm.
[13:20] <pitti> ogasawara: maybe there is no metapackage for headers-lbm?
[13:20] <pitti> at least I can't see one
[13:20] <pitti> not sure how we handled that in the past
[13:20] <pitti> ogasawara: also, do we support linux-image-extra-3.0.0-12-virtual ? that's also not covered by metapackages
[13:21]  * pitti notes it is tremendously easier to have all binaries in main, otherwise SRUs will just make a mess out of components
[13:22] <ogasawara> pitti: hrm, indeed it does look like we're missing an lbm meta package.  let me investigate.
[13:22] <ogasawara> pitti: ah yes, the -extra package is new and supported.  I'll get that fixed up as well.
[13:23] <pitti> ogasawara: thanks
[13:33] <tkamppeter> pitti, am I right that if I have a source package in Main and one of its binaries is in Universe, if I want to promote this binary to Main I do NOT need a MIR?
[13:33] <kenvandine> tkamppeter, no... something in main needs to depend on it or it needs to be seeded on the CD to get promoted
[13:47] <pitti> tkamppeter: correct
[14:19] <didrocks> pitti: thanks for the u-l-f and u-l-a, sorry for the false alarm. /me shouldn't use dch -r "" anymore ;)
[14:35] <tkamppeter> pitti, kenvandine, thanks.
[15:03] <jdstrand> pitti: hi! fyi bug #868695 (I didn't see you were subscribed, so just mentioning it here)
[15:04] <pitti> jdstrand: will follow up on the bug later, thanks
[15:04] <pitti> jdstrand: btw, do you need anything else from me for bug 866049?
[15:05] <jdstrand> pitti: nope, looks great, thanks :)
[15:05] <jdstrand> pitti: as always, much appreciated
[15:19] <bdmurray> pitti: Do you ever run into "'NoneType' object has no attribute 'makefile'" with the retracer?
[15:19] <bdmurray> pitti: when using db.download in apport
[15:30] <mneptok> is use of "whois" now discouraged in Ubuntu (i rarely keep up with the "groovy new tools/way" stuff)? been using Debian for the past 3 U releases or so. my Xubuntu 11.10 laptop does not have whois in the default install.
[15:32] <stgraber> mneptok: whois simply isn't seeded by Xubuntu
[15:32] <stgraber> mneptok: it's in Ubuntu and Edubuntu because gnome-nettool depends on it
[15:33] <stgraber> and ubuntu-desktop depends on gnome-nettool
[15:33] <mneptok> ach so.
[15:34] <mneptok> i was afraid i had missed some "OMG YOU STILL USE WHOIS?!??! USE $something_hip INSTEAD!" thing. /me installs
[16:03] <ev> mneptok: seriously dude, roll your own ;)
[16:46] <jtaylor> any recommendations what to do with gtk2? bug 851383
[16:46] <jtaylor> I seem to have found the commits which fix the issue, but that probably introduces a bunch of other bugs as the code is strongly refactored in git
[16:46] <jtaylor> this is what I extracted: http://paste.ubuntu.com/703493/
[16:47] <jtaylor> I'd prefer to go back to .5 and hope upstream regains its sanity at some point
[16:48] <jtaylor> superm1: ^
[17:08] <jtaylor> or we do what debian did and add all 560 line changes
[17:09] <superm1> jtaylor, i'd defer to #ubuntu-desktop folk in this scenario, they're the ones that maintain the package mostly
[17:09] <superm1> can you check in there?
[17:21] <cyphermox> @pilot in
[17:28] <slangasek> jhunt, hallyn_, apw: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/818177/comments/57 clearly points to udev being idiotic with its handling of 'udevadm exit' - the command has succeeded but all the workers are left running
[17:28] <slangasek> this is a recent (oneiric) change to the initramfs -bottom script
[17:28] <apw> slangasek, i concur they are clearly there ...
[17:28] <apw> jhunt, i am up to 32 reboots without failure changing from move to bind, which would fit with those not being dead
[17:29] <slangasek> we changed from using pkill to udevadm exit in response to bug #787610 / Debian bug #624469
[17:30] <apw> slangasek, yep we swapped one fails to boot 1:10 for another
[17:30] <slangasek> yes
[17:30] <slangasek> so
[17:30] <slangasek> there are two possible fixes that I see
[17:30] <apw> slangasek, so when did we introduce the mount -o move for /dev, that is pretty new
[17:30] <slangasek> 1) fix 'udevadm exit' to reap its children (but that may not be correct vis-à-vis upstream)
[17:30] <apw> which i assume is what is exposing this new 1:10 boot failure
[17:31] <slangasek> 2) call 'udevadm exit', and then *also* call pkill udevd to reap any remaining children
[17:31]  * apw thinks 2 isn't a bad option
[17:31] <slangasek> apw: the mount -omove dates back to 2009... :)
[17:32] <apw> heh really? i thoought we only started doing that when dev became a devtmpfs
[17:32] <apw> slangasek, i thnk you should put what yo just said in the bug, the link to the ps output is key evidence
[17:32] <slangasek> yep
[17:35] <apw> slangasek, i wonder if we could also do something like this as belt-and-braces
[17:36] <apw> slangasek, mount -o move A B || mount -o bind A B
[17:46] <infinity> slangasek: Say, with an amd64 adobe-flashplugin in partner (well, in unapproved right now), do we get to undo all the crazy multiarch and plagunwrapper business for flashplugin-nonfree? ;)
[17:49]  * infinity wonders what a plagun is...
[17:55] <pitti> bdmurray: that certainly rings a bell; not sure when I saw it the last time, though, it seems to be intermittent
[17:55] <bdmurray> pitti: okay, I've hit it a few times but couldn't recreate it this morning
[18:05] <mdeslaur> infinity: yes, that would be nice
[18:06] <infinity> mdeslaur: Did you just volunteer?
[18:06] <mdeslaur> infinity: uhm, no :)
[18:07] <infinity> mdeslaur: We're in a hard freeze, I'm sure you're bored.
[18:08] <mdeslaur> infinity: security is like the post office, CVEs never stop coming in
[18:08] <mdeslaur> I'm not even sure how come I ended up holding the flash short straw in the first place
[18:11] <jdstrand> mdeslaur: you know you love it :P
[18:11]  * jdstrand dodges
[18:12]  * mdeslaur puts flash short straw in jdstrand's pocket without him noticing
[18:13]  * jdstrand notices something in his pocket and tosses it into the trash
[18:13] <slangasek> apw: I'd rather not ignore the mount -o move failures... any processes blocking the move are liable to cause trouble down the line
[18:15] <mdeslaur> jdstrand: is that a metaphor for you removing flash from the archive? \o/
[18:15] <jdstrand> I admit I have an itchy trigger finger for that one :)
[18:29] <slangasek> infinity: I don't intend to muck with that again for oneiric; but for p, sure
[18:30] <slangasek> er, I mean for precise
[18:30] <infinity> slangasek: Well, we at least need to muck enough to update the tarball bits, right?
[18:30] <slangasek> yes, but that's all the mucking I endorse at this time :)
[18:30] <slangasek> that and fixing the damn downloader to NOT CLAIM SUCCESS when it fails to install anything
[18:30] <infinity> slangasek: At which point, you could just make -downloader arch:amd64 i386, and oops, it's done. :P
[18:31] <infinity> (Well, and a couple other tweaks)
[18:35] <maco> why is xterm installed by default?
[18:47] <pitti> maco: mostly hysteric raisins, I figure; but it certainly makes a nice "if anything else goes wrong, this will still work" app?
[18:48] <maco> i dont remember it being part of the default install
[18:48] <maco> unity shows it when i search term though so i was surprised to suddenly see it
[18:49] <mdeslaur> slangasek, infinity: FYI, I plan on SRUing flash 11 (including amd64) into stable releases, most likely after oneiric releases
[18:54] <infinity> mdeslaur: You could just do it now. ;)
[18:54] <mdeslaur> infinity: slangasek will unleash his wrath at me
[18:54] <infinity> mdeslaur: He will?
[18:54] <infinity> mdeslaur: It's uninstallable right now.
[18:54] <mdeslaur> infinity: huh? how so? the old version should still be there
[18:55] <infinity> mdeslaur: If you plan to SRU the amd64 change, we may as well do it pre-release, so people aren't starting with a multi-arch plugin and switching back.
[18:55] <infinity> mdeslaur: The old version won't be there forever.  We download it from the orig in the parnet archive.
[18:55] <infinity> mdeslaur: Once I accept Flash 11 into partner, the old one goes poof.
[18:55] <infinity> mdeslaur: (And Flash 11 is in unaccepted right now)
[18:56] <mdeslaur> infinity: not anymore, we have a hack to keep the old versions in partner for that specific reason
[18:56] <infinity> unapproved, even.
[18:56] <infinity> mdeslaur: Ahh.  Well, that's silly. ;)
[18:56] <infinity> mdeslaur: But fine.  We should still do something about it.
[18:56] <mdeslaur> infinity: you do know that the flashplugin package is actually part of the installer? if you remove the old versions, people can't install anymore until I fix it
[18:57] <infinity> mdeslaur: Err, it is?
[18:57] <infinity> mdeslaur: Which installer?
[18:57] <mdeslaur> infinity: it gets installed as part of the "Install extra proprietary crap" checkbox
[18:57] <mdeslaur> infinity: ubiquity
[18:58] <mdeslaur> infinity: it's the only reason I don't get flashplugin-nonfree nuked from the archive this very minute
[18:59] <superm1> mdeslaur, for precise you should push for that checkbox to enable partner instead and install flash from there
[18:59]  * infinity is failing entirely to find this code in ubiquity.
[19:00] <mdeslaur> infinity: it installs ubuntu-restricted-something and that pulls in flash
[19:00] <mdeslaur> superm1: yes, except the partner archive isn't mirrored
[19:00] <mdeslaur> superm1: but yes, foundations should do something about it in precise
[19:00] <infinity> mdeslaur: Ah-ha.
[19:00] <infinity> mdeslaur: Still, we don't install that stuff on the CD.
[19:00] <superm1> mdeslaur, but flashplugin-nonfree pulls from partner indirectly anyway, so i think the mirroring concern is a non-starter
[19:01] <infinity> mdeslaur: So, removing old versions isn't a concern.
[19:01] <stgraber> infinity: if it's connectivity + non-free selected, it adds ubuntu-restricted-addons to the list of packages to download+install
[19:01] <infinity> mdeslaur: Cause it's pulling the most recent from the archive.
[19:01] <mdeslaur> infinity: yes, as soon as I release the new version, it works again...but I'm usually a day or two behind the partner archive
[19:02] <mdeslaur> infinity: that's why we needed to keep the old versions there for a while
[19:02] <infinity> mdeslaur: Oh, sure, I'm not saying partner shouldn't have a reaping delay (and all archives do), just that saying "it'll be there indefinitely, so we can wait" seems silly. :)
[19:02] <mdeslaur> infinity: agreed
[19:02] <infinity> mdeslaur: And every new Flash release is usually about 400 security fixes (and 200 new bugs, but whatever).
[19:03] <jdstrand> infinity has cracked the short-straw code right there
[19:04] <slangasek> mdeslaur: I'm happy for you to upload flashplugin-installer to oneiric before release, as long as you fix that darn exit 0 in the postinst along the way :)
[19:06] <mdeslaur> slangasek: so...you want to prevent users from getting security updates if for some reason their flash tarball failed to download?
[19:07] <jdstrand> oh, it's *on*
[19:07] <mdeslaur> lol
[19:09] <infinity> mdeslaur: It's general practice for postinsts to fail when they fail, yes. :P
[19:09] <infinity> mdeslaur: And in the case where a postinst is THE WHOLE PACKAGE, that seems doubly-sane, no?
[19:10] <mdeslaur> infinity: yes, I'm aware it's standard practice.
[19:10] <mdeslaur> infinity: I just _hate_ the fact that a whole bunch of users stop getting updates at some point because a package is in a failed state and update manager stops working
[19:11] <infinity> mdeslaur: Maybe our GUI tools need to learn to yell louder when that happens.
[19:11] <infinity> mdeslaur: The command-line is pretty obvious about it.
[19:12] <infinity> mdeslaur: Still, "fixing" every postinst to exit 0 unconditionally is the wrong answer.  Filing bugs on update-manager would be lovely.
[19:12] <mdeslaur> infinity: yes...we should definitely fix the gui tools (if they haven't already been fixed)
[19:12] <mdeslaur> infinity: I agree
[19:13] <mdeslaur> slangasek, infinity: ok, you win, no more exit 0
[19:14] <mdeslaur> jdstrand: I got a debian beatdown
[19:14] <jdstrand> heh
[19:24] <mdeslaur> infinity, slangasek: will apt upgrade from flashplugin-downloader:i386 to flashplugin-downloader:amd64?
[19:24] <slangasek> mdeslaur: right, I'm with infinity on this one... we need update-manager to get better at recovering from package install failures in the middle of an upgrade, but honestly it's already a lot better than it used to be, and hiding errors is the devil's work :)
[19:24] <slangasek> nope
[19:25] <infinity> There's a fix for that.
[19:25] <slangasek> if you drop the Multi-Arch: foreign from flashplugin-downloader, then the new flashplugin-installer will forcibly replace the i386 one with the amd64 one
[19:25] <infinity> Want to hear it and cry?
[19:25] <slangasek> infinity: no
[19:25] <slangasek> :)
[19:25] <infinity> Oh, that would work too.
[19:25] <mdeslaur> slangasek: oh, cool. thanks
[19:25] <infinity> (are you sure apt and dpkg will DTRT with MA bits going away again?)
[19:27] <slangasek> infinity: yes.  It is possible that apt won't actually calculate the upgrade path we *want*, but it will know "flashplugin-downloader is out of date and the new version doesn't satisfy the dependency"
[19:28] <slangasek> the question is whether it will *actually* upgrade, or if it will just try to remove stuff instead - should probably be tested in a ppa before upload :)
[19:28] <slangasek> mdeslaur: ^^
[19:28] <mdeslaur> slangasek: yeah, I'll test it
[19:28] <infinity> slangasek: Yeah.  I was going to suggest something ickier to avoid that, but... It was icky. :P
[19:28] <slangasek> I could tell ;)
[19:28] <infinity> Though, mine's guaranteed to work. ;)
[19:29] <infinity> (PS: Icky)
[19:29] <mdeslaur> slangasek: is there something better than uname -m in a postinst to get the arch?
[19:29] <infinity> mdeslaur: Eek.
[19:29] <infinity> mdeslaur: dpkg --print-architecture
[19:29] <mdeslaur> infinity: I assume that means yes :)
[19:29] <infinity> mdeslaur: uname has nothing to do with dpkg arch.
[19:29] <slangasek> uname -m is always the wrong tool
[19:29] <infinity> mdeslaur: Think i386 base on an amd64 kernel.
[19:29] <infinity> mdeslaur: For instance.
[19:30] <mdeslaur> that's what happens when I cargo cult stuff from other packages I come across :P
[19:30] <hallyn_> yeah i got that wrong with lxc-create too, stgraber set me straight :)
[19:30] <stgraber> hehe :)
[19:31] <infinity> mdeslaur: If you've found uname in another package, I'd like to know about it. :)
[19:31] <slangasek> mdeslaur: so there are two relevant "what architecture" checks you might want.  One is "what is the primary architecture of this machine" (dpkg --print-architecture), the other is "what is the architecture of this package in multiarch land" (echo $DPKG_MAINTSCRIPT_ARCH)
[19:31] <mdeslaur> infinity: I did, but I can't remember where
[19:32] <mdeslaur> slangasek: oh, so $DPKG_MAINTSCRIPT_ARCH is the arch of the package itself? hmm, I'll use that
[19:33] <slangasek> correct
[19:33] <mdeslaur> slangasek: thanks
[19:33] <slangasek> that way you don't have to munge the maintscript at build time to get that info
[19:45] <superm1> mdeslaur, stgraber , if i'm not mistaken, it's just a one line diff to fetch flash from partner directly instead of multiverse via this ugly thing at install time. http://paste.ubuntu.com/703567/
[19:46] <superm1> ubuntu-restricted-addons will already fetch adobe-flashplugin first if it's available
[19:46] <mdeslaur> ooooh
[19:47] <mdeslaur> slangasek, infinity: how about doing that and killing flashplugin-nonfree entirely?
[19:47] <mdeslaur> ^
[20:04] <slangasek> mdeslaur, superm1: blah, no
[20:04] <slangasek> opting to install flash is not the same thing as opting to enable partner
[20:05] <slangasek> if we wanted that, we should drop the package from multiarch entirely
[20:05] <slangasek> also, this would lose all the nspluginwrapper integration, which AIUI adobe has rejected
[20:06] <mdeslaur> slangasek: we don't need nspluginwrapper anymore
[20:06]  * slangasek makes a sour face :)
[20:07] <mdeslaur> slangasek: but, that's a good point, opting into that checkbox doesn't mean opting in to partner
[20:07] <mdeslaur> slangasek: why the sour face?
[20:07] <slangasek> regardless, I'm not ok with handling this via a policy change in ubiquity during final freeze
[20:07] <slangasek> mdeslaur: because not all browsers have firefox's out-of-process plugin handling... the nspluginwrapper integration is IMHO still a feature :)
[20:08] <slangasek> but yeah, technically we don't need it now
[20:08] <mdeslaur> I'm not sure how the upgrade patch would have worked anyway
[20:08] <mdeslaur> s/patch/path/
[20:08] <slangasek> yeah
[20:12] <hallyn_> doko: do you know why libnl-3 doesn't install /etc/classid?
[20:12] <hallyn_> (Makefile still appears to generate it, and libvirt with netcf wants it.)
[20:12] <cyphermox> hallyn_: I think it's an issue with whether makefile really tries to install it, or tries to install it in the right place
[20:13] <cyphermox> and I fail, I should have tried to address this a few minutes ago
[20:13] <cyphermox> hallyn_: I've seen a patch or commit on the mailing list or on git post libnl3 3.0
[20:13] <hallyn_> cyphermox: ok, so it's not being droppedon purpose?
[20:13] <hallyn_> ok, cool.
[20:14] <cyphermox> hallyn_: no, I do think it's a bug. but I also don't see what it changes (not that I looked)
[20:14] <hallyn_> cyphermox: thanks, I"ll work around it for now and file a bug later today
[20:14] <cyphermox> aside from the message I saw no effect
[20:14] <cyphermox> hallyn_: are you running into an actual bug with this?
[20:15] <hallyn_> well libvirt tests are failing, i don't know if it's because of those or not
[20:16] <hallyn_> cyphermox: yes, with the file installed the tests pass :)  so it will break libvirt build
[20:16] <hallyn_> (when netcf is enabled, hopefully very soon)
[20:17] <cyphermox> dah
[20:17] <cyphermox> the tests pass?
[20:18] <hallyn_> yes
[20:19] <cyphermox> oh, sorry, I had missed reading one of the above lines :)
[20:19] <hallyn_> np :)
[20:19] <mdeslaur> slangasek: so a apt-get dist-upgrade is holding flashplugin-installer back
[20:19] <hallyn_> now, the q, does this all actually *work* :)
[20:19] <ricotz> slangasek, hi, this seems to be a multiarch related problem -- i am trying to compile this http://paste.debian.net/plain/134701 with the included command which results in a linker error, and it works using binutils-gold
[20:19] <cyphermox> hallyn_: what's classid supposed to contain?
[20:20] <hallyn_> "ClassID <-> Name Translation Table"
[20:20] <mdeslaur> slangasek: but if I do "apt-get install flashplugin-installer", it wants to do the right thing
[20:20] <hallyn_> cyphermox: it only has three, though.
[20:20] <hallyn_> 0:0, ffff:ffff, and ffff:fff1
[20:20] <slangasek> mdeslaur: yep, those were the two possible outcomes there, drat
[20:21] <cyphermox> ah
[20:22] <slangasek> ricotz: what does working using binutils-gold have to do with multiarch?
[20:22] <ricotz> it might be a problem with the multiarched glib
[20:23] <slangasek> I see nothing that suggests that
[20:23] <ricotz> it seems the normal linker is missing a reference to -L/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/
[20:24] <ricotz> slangasek, can you confirm the error?
[20:24] <slangasek> ricotz: I get an error; you didn't say what your original error was
[20:24] <slangasek> abstract.c:(.text+0x10): undefined reference to `g_unix_socket_address_abstract_names_supported'
[20:24] <slangasek> abstract.c:(.text+0x23): undefined reference to `g_print'
[20:25] <slangasek> abstract.c:(.text+0x34): undefined reference to `g_print'
[20:25] <slangasek> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
[20:25] <ricotz> yes, that one
[20:25] <slangasek> nothing to do with multiarch
[20:25] <slangasek> glib2.0 broke its .pc file
[20:26] <ricotz> ok
[20:26] <slangasek> Requires: gobject-2.0,gmodule-no-export-2.0,gio-2.0
[20:26] <ricotz> so gold is adding some additional paths on its own then
[20:26] <slangasek> I'm pretty sure that's the wrong syntax
[20:47] <kees> slangasek: wow, neat. my system hung at boot waiting for my cryptswap to "be available"
[20:48] <kees> I dropped to manual recovery, and everything looked fine (it was set up and available)
[20:48] <slangasek> hmm
[20:48] <kees> in a final bid to wonder if it got set up wrong, I ran blkid /dev/mapper/cryptswap1 and instantly the system finished booting
[20:48] <sconklin> kees: have seen the same thing, exactly once, on a Natty system
[20:48] <slangasek> kees: for the moment I assume this is a duplicate of one of the other two udev bugs
[20:49] <slangasek> kees: is it random crypted swap?
[20:50] <kees> slangasek: yeah
[20:51] <Dean> nope
[20:51] <slangasek> kees: so that should've been brought up in the initramfs.  racy-racy
[20:51] <kees> slangasek: right, I assume it's the same bug too. I just hadn't seen blkid trigger udev happiness
[20:51] <kees> slangasek: right, mountall told me it was waiting for it.
[20:51] <slangasek> yeah, dunno about that
[20:53] <slangasek> oh, if it's crypted random, I guess it wouldn't be registered as a RESUME target in the initramfs setup
[20:58] <kees> slangasek: right, but it's listed in my fstab
[21:00] <slangasek> kees: yes, I'm just working through why it wouldn't necessarily be brought up via initramfs
[21:00] <slangasek> in fact, if it's not the rootfs or the RESUME target, I think cryptsetup explicitly does *not* try to bring it up in the initramfs
[21:01] <kees> ah! right, yeah, this one isn't delayed, so it's effectively crossing the initramfs/real-root udev kill boundary
[21:01] <slangasek> "isn't delayed"?
[21:01] <slangasek> what's /conf/conf.d/cryptroot in the initramfs?
[21:02] <kees> ... isn't waited for, is really what I meant.
[21:02] <slangasek> right
[21:02] <infinity> superm1: Dude, dpkg -l in your postinst?
[21:02] <slangasek> and anything that isn't waited for, AFAIK isn't *attempted* at all
[21:02] <superm1> infinity, not in the postinst, this is in a late script
[21:02] <infinity> superm1: What are you trying to determine?  If a package is installed?
[21:03] <infinity> superm1: Or, whever.
[21:03] <kees> slangasek: should be empty, let me unpack it...
[21:03] <superm1> infinity, yeah but just a quick check if it's installed to prevent badness from happening if so
[21:03] <infinity> superm1: Either eay, that's not entirely guaranteed to work the way you think it will.  And you're much better off testing for a file on the filesystem from said package, IMO.
[21:03] <superm1> infinity, really?  how can it break?
[21:04] <infinity> superm1: If anything in dpkg -l matched 'fist', for starters?
[21:04] <kees> slangasek: yeah, I don't have a /conf/conf.d/cryptroot at all
[21:04] <infinity> superm1: (plus there's the part where packages can show in dpkg -l even when not installed, you're not actually checking the status, you're just checking to see if it's listed)
[21:05] <broder> superm1: dpkg -l can also be really slow because it forces you to read the whole dpkg database off disk
[21:05] <superm1> infinity, well that's a good point for futureproofing
[21:05] <infinity> superm1: It's much saner to just test for a file that "fist" ships.
[21:05] <superm1> want to axe the upload and i'll follow the recommendation?
[21:05] <infinity> Rejecting.
[21:05] <superm1> thansk
[21:06] <slangasek> kees: ok, so it's not an initramfs issue.  There have been past reports of raciness between mountall and crypted swap; I think you'll find an open bug on mountall for this
[21:07] <kees> slangasek: okay, cool.
[21:47] <cyphermox> @pilot out
[21:48] <cyphermox> I'll be back later; for now on the road / dinner and all :)
[23:37] <cr3> is there a preferred package to get a utc timezone object in python on ubuntu? I've been using python-tz but it's not installed by default, so I'm hoping there's a recommended package more likely to be already installed
[23:46] <cr3> aha, I believe it's python-dateutil!


[00:07] <stgraber> highvoltage: hmm, yeah, not too fond of that, I think we should divert it away if possible
[00:09] <stgraber> highvoltage: try adding a dpkg-divert for /usr/lib/ubiquity/plugins/ubi-ubuntuone.py to /usr/lib/ubiquity/plugins/ubi-ubuntuone.py.disabled into edubuntu-live, that should do the trick
[00:12] <xnox> stgraber: default boot arg UBIQUITY_NO_SSO, or modify --no-sso to be added in the ubiquity desktop file and in the ubiquity.conf
[00:12] <xnox> well env. variables.
[00:13] <xnox> stgraber: u1 page is auto-enabled on all flavours which ship ubuntuone-client (that patch is uploaded). So i'd ask why are you shipping ubuntuone-client yet want to disable ubiquity plugin =)
[00:13] <xnox> (sorry not uploaded, staged in lp:ubiquity)
[00:14] <stgraber> xnox: I don't mind people turning on u1 post install, I just don't want to prompt them during install
[00:14] <stgraber> xnox: we also remove the u1 icon from the default launchers for the same reason
[00:14] <stgraber> xnox: I saw the env variable, but it's not easy to have it set consistently in the live environment, having our existing live session package divert the step completely is much simpler
[00:14] <xnox> stgraber: ack. So UBIQUITY_NO_SSO=1 environment variable or --no-sso cmd arg.
[00:15] <stgraber> we don't currently mangle ubiquity.desktop or ubiquity.conf, having to do so would also be harder than divert the step away (we already do a fair amount of diverting in edubuntu-live, so it's really just an extra line in there)
[00:15] <xnox> stgraber: i anticipated that some flavours might want to disable u1, but was not sure of a best turn-off mechanism.
[00:16] <xnox> stgraber: cause e.g. for changelog url, we do look at cdrom/.disk/* stuff. And well we know $flavour name, I could disable sso based on flavour name as well.
[00:17] <xnox> stgraber: if there is more than one request to disable u1, i'd like something less hackish =)
[00:17] <stgraber> sure, if someone else wants it gone, then it'd make sense to have a whitelist of flavours that do want the step directly in Ubiquity
[00:18] <stgraber> considering FF is tomorrow, the easiest way to have it gone by then is an edubuntu-live upload
[00:18] <xnox> stgraber: let me upload, to disable it on flavours that don't have u1.
[00:18] <xnox> stgraber: well i'm about to upload ubiquity =)
[00:19] <stgraber> sure, but that won't help edubuntu since we do have the package there (we're a superset of ubuntu, so anything ubuntu has, we do)
[00:19] <xnox> =)
[00:19] <xnox> ack.
[06:23] <highvoltage> xnox ftw.
[14:03] <stgraber> highvoltage: will you have time to add the divert by FF time?
[15:50] <highvoltage> xnox: did you end up disabling by flavour name?
[15:52] <smartboyhw> highvoltage, did you get the link?
[15:53] <highvoltage> smartboyhw: yes, thanks. looked at it, it's on my list after the ffe bug
[15:54] <smartboyhw> highvoltage, good
[15:54] <smartboyhw> Thanks!
[15:54] <smartboyhw> highvoltage, BTW, Ubuntu QA Team is starting a grand project to look for more testers (especially flavours with few testers like Edubuntu_
[15:55] <highvoltage> smartboyhw: cool
[15:55] <highvoltage> seems like we're getting quite a bit of kde components in again that we shouldn't.
[15:55] <Ahmuck> hi
[15:56] <Ahmuck> hiya stgraber
[15:57] <smartboyhw> highvoltage, :O
[15:58] <xnox> highvoltage: at the moment no, as i have no idea which flavours want it off. And well, to know why they want it off.
[15:58] <Ahmuck> some time ago
[15:58] <Ahmuck> (~three years or so)
[15:58] <highvoltage> xnox: thanks, just wanted to check based on the earlier discussion I've seen
[15:59] <xnox> highvoltage: at the moment it's enabled on those images that ship ubuntuone-client package which is not all flavours.
[15:59] <Ahmuck> i recall using some type of master server and then video over the network
[15:59] <Ahmuck> the name again?
[15:59] <highvoltage> Ahmuck: big blue button?
[15:59] <xnox> highvoltage: at the moment it's enabled on: Ubuntu, UbuntuKylin, Edubuntu, UbuntuGnome and maybe that's it?!
[15:59]  * xnox goes to double check Xubuntu, Lubuntu, Mythbuntu & Studio.
[16:00] <Ahmuck> nope
[16:02] <xnox> highvoltage: that's the current list "Ubuntu, UbuntuKylin, Edubuntu, UbuntuGnome" currently have the page, because (a) they use gnome keyring (b) they install by default software that uses that token from that keyring.
[16:02] <xnox> and (c) it's actually a user-friendly / ux feature.
[16:02] <highvoltage> xnox: ah I see
[16:06] <xnox> highvoltage: due to themeing, the u1 page doesn't look as good as I hoped on gnome, but am planning to make the images & pictograms blend into the theme.
[16:10] <highvoltage> xnox: ok. in edubuntu we only install from ubiquity though and don't support proper gnome-shell, but nice to hear :)
[16:12] <xnox> highvoltage: it's completely independent from the "ubuntu & gnome online accounts" frameworks. and is completely DE agnostic: unity, gnome-panel, gnome-shell, doesn't matter =)
[16:12] <xnox> as long as gnome-keyring service is started and the keyring unlocked, which is the case for all 4 of above flavours.
[16:13]  * xnox is another session at the moment.
[16:33] <Ahmuck> highvoltage: it was remote server and video, keyboard, mouse on a thin client
[16:33] <Ahmuck> forgot the name
[17:44] <highvoltage> stgraber: do you know how any of lightdm innards work?
[17:44] <stgraber> highvoltage: maybe, I looked into it a couple of cycles ago
[17:45] <highvoltage> gnome-flashback works fine if I do a 'xinit /usr/bin/gnome-session --session gnome-flashback', but executing the same in lightdm just gives me a black screen.
[17:45] <highvoltage> not sure what's different in lightdm that could cause that.
[17:45] <stgraber> highvoltage: fixed that an hour ago
[17:46] <highvoltage> stgraber: ah cool. I'm curious to know what caused that
[17:46] <stgraber> highvoltage: we switched to using upstart user sessions by default for all the flavours, but gnome-flashback broke as the xsession and the gnome session have different names
[17:47] <stgraber> that and one of the two gnome-fallback sessions was calling a wrapper shell script which wasn't known by upstart
[17:47] <stgraber> so I standardized the two .desktop files to call gnome-session properly and I added symlinks to make both the old and new names valid in gnome-session
[17:47] <highvoltage> stgraber: ah cool, thanks
[17:48] <stgraber> there's still one problem though, at least on my machine, opening a gnome-fallback session with compiz gives me a fallback session with unity running on top of it (compiz runs with the unity plugin, which it shouldn't)
[17:48] <stgraber> but that's not related to upstart as running outside an upstart user session doesn't seem to help
[17:50] <highvoltage> ah yes. that happens with compiz --replace too.
[17:50] <highvoltage> I guess they made unity a default compiz plugin.
[17:52] <highvoltage> stgraber: should I ask what to do there on #ubuntu-desktop?
[17:54] <stgraber> highvoltage: sure. I mentioned it to jbicha earlier today but he didn't seem to care much at the time, might be worth poking some other folks about it.
[18:50] <Ahmuck> ltsp