[06:44] <mithun> hi. i got an aquaris e5 ubuntu touch. its my daily driver. how can i help the community make this thing suck less?
[06:58] <mcphail> mithun: file bug reports, create patches, make apps and scopes, write documentation
[06:59] <mithun> thanks mcphail. is there a list somewhere with things other people are thinking?
[07:02] <mcphail> mithun: theres a mailing list, and there was talk last week of producing a list of small bugs which could be easily tackled by the community
[07:04] <mithun> ah. found it now https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Contribute
[07:07] <mcphail> Lurking on here can be useful as well
[09:02] <daniman> Can i externally download a package and install it to my phone, or download from my computer then install it?
[09:02] <daniman> is there any mirror?
[09:02] <daniman> !mirror
[09:06] <popey> daniman: yes, you can
[09:07] <daniman> popey: how? is there any doc, sorry i am new for the phone version
[09:09] <popey> adb push foo.click /tmp
[09:09] <popey> adb shell
[09:09] <popey> pkcon install-local --allow-untrusted /tmp/foo.click
[09:09] <popey> Done.
[09:12] <daniman> popey: how?
[09:12] <popey> how what?
[09:13] <popey> oh, you timed out, I typed it above
[09:13] <daniman> yeah i was out, light went out lol
[09:13] <popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/16373517/
[09:14] <daniman> popey: i don't think there is adb
[09:14] <daniman> there is adbd
[09:14] <popey> you run adb on your pc, not the phone
[09:14] <popey> to transfer the click to the phone
[09:15] <popey> or you could just wget the file directly on the phone and just use pkcon to install it
[09:15] <daniman> yeah i got it, but is there adb for the phone
[09:15] <daniman> The last time i checked it was adbd
[09:15]  * daniman <-- new for the phone
[09:16] <daniman> ok where can i download the packages?
[09:23] <daniman> !pkg mirror
[09:23] <daniman> !mirror
[09:38] <brunch875> Telegram now takes some time to open up a chat when tapping on a contact (as if it needed internet to do it). Am I the only experiencing this?
[09:39] <popey> brunch875: I don't think so.
[09:39] <jaywink> yeah noticed as well it drops to the chat list when clicking a notification and takes 2-3 secs to open the chat
[09:40] <brunch875> I'll test it a bit and then file a bug then
[09:41] <brunch875> I think this new behavior is so that it doesn't open an unrefreshed chat
[09:42] <brunch875> It must be a bit of a headache since the notifications aren't entirely synched up with the client
[09:48] <brunch875> Little question: I am on rc-proposed. Am I using a newer version than on stable? Or is the same telegram version rolled on all channels?
[09:48] <popey> same version
[09:48] <popey> it's a store-shipped click
[09:49] <brunch875> That's good to know!
[10:05] <brunch875> is there a simple way / srcipt to setup public key for phone ssh using adb?
[10:05] <brunch875> something like adb setup-ssh
[10:12] <davmor2> brunch875: phablet-shell
[10:13] <davmor2> brunch875: connect it to a pc enable developer mode and run phablet-shell
[10:13] <brunch875> is it like adb shell?
[10:14] <davmor2> brunch875: it will setup keys and copy them to your phone and pc so you can connect to it from ssh
[10:14] <brunch875> I can't use adb shell because I'm talking here with rndis :Þ
[10:14] <brunch875> Thanks, davmor2
[10:14] <brunch875> I'll do that at home so that I don't burn 50MB downloading phablet-tools
[11:21] <popey> My M10 arrived.  I am in Europe :)
[11:27] <davmor2> popey: quick send Smurphy the plug it sounds like he needs it desperately :D
[11:27] <brunch875> popey: How unfortunate. Send it to me, I use european outlets :Þ
[11:27] <popey>  /join #brexit
[11:28] <davmor2> popey: see loads of people seem desperate for the plug you'll have no issues getting rid of it
[11:29] <popey> i notice it ships with OTA 9.5, not 10 or 10.1
[11:29] <popey> Also, can't sign in to U1 - "network error - please retry"
[11:29] <popey> nothing wrong with the network
[11:30] <davmor2> popey: bug is fixed it is because you need to add your one time only password
[11:30] <popey> wat
[11:30] <popey> how?
[11:30] <davmor2> scroll down the page
[11:31] <popey> there is no scroll down
[11:31] <davmor2> popey: should be
[11:31] <popey> nope
[11:32] <davmor2> have you slid the keyboard down?
[11:32] <popey> yes
[11:32] <davmor2> hmm pass then
[11:33] <davmor2> popey: for canonical people the network error was because it tried to connect and failed due to redirect to otp this is fixed in 11 whenever it is released
[11:33] <popey> no good for a customer OOBE on 9.5
[11:35] <davmor2> popey: we don't release it bq do and the factory ran with ota9.5 as that was what was available and new oobe didn't land till 10 hands are tied on that one
[11:50] <popey> davmor2: that issue can't be 2fa btw, I initially tried with a non-canonical account
[11:50] <popey> and it also failed
[11:51] <davmor2> popey: oh weird blame JamesTait bound to be his fault
[12:16] <aquiles> Hii
[12:16] <aquiles> Hello
[12:16] <davmor2> aquiles: hello
[12:44] <daniman> Where can i get the click pkgs?
[12:48] <pmcgowan> daniman, the app store ?
[12:49] <daniman> pmcgowan: yeah, i wanted to download from my pc the pkgs and install
[12:51] <mhall119> daniman: are you running Unity 8?
[12:52] <daniman> mhall119: in the touch?
[12:53] <mhall119> yes, touch runs Unity 8
[12:53] <mhall119> but Unity 8 also runs on  non-touch devices, with some work
[12:53] <mhall119> if that's what you've got running, the store scope is the easiest way to find, download, and install apps
[12:55] <daniman> Ok, i want to download the apps from my computer and i install them offline
[12:58] <daniman> is it impossible?
[13:02] <pmcgowan> not sure how to do that, popey ?
[13:03] <popey> daniman: we don't have an easy way to download clicks manually.
[13:04] <MasseR> daniman: out of curiosity what's your use case
[13:05] <daniman> MasseR: use case?
[13:05] <MasseR> How come you want to transfer and install the files manually instead of using the store
[13:05] <daniman> Connection problem lol
[13:07] <MasseR> I think you're gonna have a hard time using touch without connectivity :)
[13:08] <daniman> Yeah i had can get connections but currently using such things in from the sim card seems expensive
[13:08] <daniman> sorry for the grammer
[13:16] <MasseR> Yeah, I remember expensive mobile networks. 2007 I had something like 5€/20M
[13:16] <MasseR> Now I got unlimited 4G with ~7€/mo
[13:17] <brunch875> ¿Unlimited? ¿Where do you live?
[13:18] <brunch875> I pay 13€/mo for 500M
[13:18] <davmor2> pfff I get 20GB for £21
[13:19] <brunch875> I want unlimited, even if it's as slow as 100kb/s
[13:19] <brunch875> that way I don't need to 'avoid watching videos' or crap like that
[13:20] <MasseR> brunch875: finland
[13:20] <brunch875> Ah... the developed countries
[13:20] <MasseR> A while ago I used mobile data for netflix because it was faster than my landline :P
[13:21] <brunch875> here in spain we have to pay extra expensive taxes if we want to use our own solar energy
[13:21] <brunch875> there goes progress
[13:21] <MasseR> Same for us for electric vehicles
[13:21] <MasseR> Electric vehicles pay the diesel tax
[13:21] <brunch875> But I guess diesel vehicles also pay the diesel tax then
[13:21] <MasseR> yep
[13:22] <brunch875> nono, this tax I talk you about is exclusive to solar panels
[13:26] <JanC> brunch875: for using your own solar panels or for delivering the surplus to the network?
[13:26] <brunch875> Just for using them
[13:27] <brunch875> The surplus you revert to the network you have to do it for free, without getting any $$$
[13:27] <brunch875> and this is mandatory
[13:27] <brunch875> anyone caught with one of those big batteries gets some massive fine
[13:28] <brunch875> equivalent to having nuclear waste laying around your house
[13:29] <daniman> any background apps which uses data? i should disable for low data usage
[13:29] <brunch875> JanC: Just google for "sun tax". All results should point to spain :P
[13:30] <JanC> well, handling/controlling the surplus actually costs money to the distribution network, so there is a bit of logic in that at least
[13:32] <brunch875> The logic in these crazy laws is because all spanish politicians retire as counselors in energetic companies
[13:33] <pmcgowan> daniman, several of the default scopes reach out to the network so you may want to remove them, but we don't really allow apps to do background processing unless using a standard service
[13:33] <brunch875> corruption reeking everywhere
[13:34] <brunch875> Does the "desktop mode" on the tablet allow background apps?
[13:34] <daniman> pmcgowan: hmm which scopes? and if i don't start them should they connect automatically?
[13:34] <pmcgowan> daniman, they will initialize but not necessarily udate unless you ask them to by swiping, today nearby music video
[13:35] <pmcgowan> its not a lot but not sure how much you can tolerate
[13:36] <daniman> pmcgowan: How can i disable them with out removing them? Music Scope  fetch some music images without my permission
[13:36] <popey> davmor2: pmcgowan: what's the best channel for trying OTA-11 on frieza? ubuntu-touch/stable/bq-aquaris-pd.en is current channel.
[13:36] <popey> daniman: swipe up, un-favorite them
[13:37] <popey> (swipe up from the bottom that is)
[13:37] <pmcgowan> popey, yes thats the right channel if you want stable
[13:37] <pmcgowan> or same with rc-proposed
[13:37] <davmor2> popey: ubuntu-touch/rc-proposed/bq-aquaris-pd.en
[13:38] <popey> I thought I could do sudo system-image-cli --switch ubuntu-touch/rc-proposed/bq-aquaris-pd.en
[13:38] <popey> but that fails
[13:38] <popey> is there some other non-ubuntu-device-flash way to do this?
[13:38] <popey> or do I just have to use udf?
[13:38] <daniman> popey: i got that, but in the there is this homescreen maybe which can not be removed that the music scope fetchs data
[13:38] <daniman> home*
[13:39] <popey> daniman: no, un-favorite them all, the only one left is the app scope
[13:40] <pmcgowan> daniman, or, go to the settings for each of the scopes and turn off the internet feeds
[13:40] <daniman> is it possible i didn't know!
[13:40] <pmcgowan> so for today scope toggle off bbc and other news sites but keep local info for example
[13:40] <daniman> anyother?
[13:42]  * popey flashes frieza
[13:44] <daniman> and the facebook apps uses a lots of data
[13:44] <daniman> is there any opera like browser for touch
[13:44] <daniman> or similar
[13:47] <pmcgowan> opera like?
[13:51] <daniman> any opera-like mini browser?
[13:54] <popey> davmor2: no
[13:54] <popey> dammit
[13:57] <popey> davmor2: pmcgowan seen this on frieza? location notification freaking out https://youtu.be/HlQA5it_fH4 https://youtu.be/8abo9WSqsLM
[13:58] <pmcgowan> popey, no but its been reported
[13:58] <davmor2> popey: nope
[13:58] <pmcgowan> popey, be nice if you could track it down, let me find the bug
[13:58] <popey> started with ota 10.1
[13:59] <pmcgowan> popey, this? https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1573674
[14:01] <pmcgowan> davmor2, I am updating frieza and ts taking a long time here, big ubuntu logo spins slowly
[14:02] <davmor2> pmcgowan: yeap it's a huge image don't forget
[14:02] <pmcgowan> it was indeed
[14:02] <davmor2> pmcgowan: around a 1gb in total
[14:03] <pmcgowan> was a 500MB update since 97
[14:04] <pmcgowan> davmor2, so 10 mins? more?
[14:05] <popey> pmcgowan: you wiping?
[14:05] <pmcgowan> no updating
[14:05] <pmcgowan> ota
[14:05] <davmor2> pmcgowan: takes as long as it takes 5-10 maybe
[14:05] <popey> because the only difference between when I had the location thing freak out and not, was i played with the location options in the wizard
[14:05] <popey> like, ticked each one in turn, then chose the top one finally.
[14:05] <popey> but with a clean OTA11 (rc-proposed) I didnt touch it, just left it default
[14:05] <pmcgowan> hmm
[14:05] <popey> and the location indicator is no longer freaking out
[14:06] <pmcgowan> could be a clue indeed
[14:06]  * popey leaves a note on the bug
[14:06] <pmcgowan> ok m10 rebooted
[16:46] <Ropax> Hello
[16:48] <davmor2> Ropax: hello
[16:48] <Ropax> Is there any option to install ubuntu touch on non-supported devices ???
[16:49] <lotuspsychje> Ropax: port ubuntu-touch to a new device
[16:50] <lotuspsychje> Ropax: or if the device is windows based, wait for unity8 to release and install ubuntu-desktop
[16:51] <Ropax> k
[16:51] <Ropax> thanks
[16:52] <Ropax> And one more question can I install ubuntu touch via windows Pc
[16:52] <Ropax> ???
[16:53] <lotuspsychje> Ropax: does your windows pc have touch support on screen?
[16:55] <davmor2> Ropax: no, ubuntu flashing tools are specific to ubuntu as far as I know
[16:55] <Ropax> ok
[16:55] <Ropax> thx
[16:57] <ogra_> you might be able to use a VM though ...
[16:57] <davmor2> ogra_: depends on usb throughput I guess but yes
[16:57] <ogra_> (if it properly handles USB ports)
[16:58] <ogra_> heh, snap
[17:14] <Yoanncooljazz> Is there a channel where we can try the miracast feature ?
[17:26] <Yoanncooljazz> Im impatient to try the miracast feature
[18:44] <Sleep_Walker> faenil: where I can find packages of Libertine project?
[18:45] <faenil> Sleep_Walker: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Libertine
[18:46] <faenil> Sleep_Walker: let me link you to a related ML thread
[18:46] <Sleep_Walker> I used apt on root filesystem in the past and got into trouble with firmware updates
[18:47] <Sleep_Walker> (yet I still don't get why it is so hard :)
[18:47] <ogra_> if you are on teh tablet https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yJepibh68YaQijWO3Z3dWTtTTmzXnMmEE8eswhUXzw4/edit
[18:48] <faenil> one thing at a time :)
[18:48] <faenil> ogra_: thanks that's what I was looking for :D
[18:48] <ogra_> :D
[18:48] <faenil> Sleep_Walker:  see ogra_'s link ^
[18:48]  * ogra_ posted it often enough to ubuntu-devel-discuss in the last days :P
[18:49] <faenil> haha
[18:51] <faenil> ogra_: do you have any recipe to avoid screwing the system on upgrades?
[18:51] <faenil> I never had any issue with it ..
[18:51] <ogra_> not really ... apart from "re-flash it"
[18:52] <Sleep_Walker> so why it is not just 'reflashed' by upgrade?
[18:52] <faenil> ogra_: no I mean, is there any way to install packages as if you were using a normal linux box and minimize the chance of issues on upgrades?
[18:52] <ogra_> if you use apt the package db and info as well as any manual changes you make to files get reverted with the OTA ... but the space doesnt get freed
[18:52] <Sleep_Walker> I can reinstall my packages later
[18:53] <ogra_> since the system expects a readonly setup the assumption is that there are no additional changes ... that the only way to apply the deltas cleanly
[18:53]  * ogra_ looks forward to snappy ... where you simply cant make the readonly bits writable ... that will solve so many probs
[18:53] <Sleep_Walker> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Libertine - I miss 'libertine-scope'
[18:54] <ogra_> you dont need the scope
[18:54] <ogra_> (it is a convenience thing)
[18:54] <faenil> Sleep_Walker: fyi, more info about upgrades at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ImageBasedUpgrades
[18:54] <ogra_> "libertine-container-manager install-package" also works on local debs you hand to it ...
[18:55] <ogra_> (beyond giving you the whole archive)
[18:57] <mcphail> ogra_: can't you "unsquashfs" a snap to make it writable?
[18:57] <ogra_> no
[18:57] <ogra_> only to unpack it  ...
[18:58] <mcphail> ok
[18:59] <ogra_> (beyond that snappy wouldnt let you use it if you re-packed it ... snaps are signed by the store)
[19:01]  * mcphail has spent too long guddling around in /opt/click... to see the immediate advantages...
[19:03] <ogra_> you will be able to  install snaps with the --devmode flag ... and you can tinker with them in an overlay bind-mount from the "snappy classic shell"
[19:03] <ogra_> i just dont think you can do that with the rootfs snap ...
[19:03] <mcphail> aah. Nice
[19:04] <ogra_> advantage -> random people wont follow random howtos from the web to trash their phones and require support to restore them ;)
[19:07] <tedg> mterry: So I have a silo with policykit-unity8 and accountsservice in it. How do I test the welcome screen issue?
[19:09]  * ogra_ sees the ubuntu-phone ML and dances
[19:15]  * tedg didn't know ogra_ had so many ITAR restricted questions
[19:15] <sebsebseb> oh yeah this is where I should be as well
[19:15] <sebsebseb> this channel
[19:15]  * faenil pictures Sleep_Walker playing with libertine
[19:16] <sebsebseb> ah yes libertine to put own  programs on tablet
[19:16] <sebsebseb> how to do that anyway?
[19:20] <faenil> see previous link by ogra_
[19:21] <ogra_> faenil, he joined later ;)
[19:21] <ogra_> sebsebseb, https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yJepibh68YaQijWO3Z3dWTtTTmzXnMmEE8eswhUXzw4/edit
[19:22] <popey> is that for fiddling with the libertine stuff on the phone?
[19:22] <popey> What if I want to create my own app and upload to the click store>?
[19:22] <Sleep_Walker> faenil: well, I passed $ libertine-container-manager create --id vivid --type chroot --name 'Libertine Demo' and I'm waiting for result
[19:22] <ogra_> that is for fiddling with the libertine stuff on the tablet actually ...
[19:23] <ogra_> on the phone you wont have the tools installed by default
[19:23] <popey> Right, I didnt mean phone
[19:23] <Sleep_Walker> it looks like it prepares vivid chroot
[19:23] <popey> Forget I said phone.
[19:23]  * ogra_ forgets
[19:23] <popey> My question is actually, how can I make my own click based on libertine to go to the store?
[19:24] <ogra_> popey, i would assume you actually upload to the archive ... (not sure how the libertine-scope works, but essentially it should only need a .desktop file and the knowledge which package to install)
[19:24] <popey> uh no
[19:24] <ogra_> i guess bregma or ChrisTownsend are your men
[19:24] <popey> gimp etc are in the store
[19:24] <popey> as a click
[19:24] <ogra_> the whole of them ?
[19:25] <popey> the ones that are on the tablet are inside a click
[19:25] <popey> the purtine/libertine thing
[19:25] <ogra_> thats different
[19:25] <popey> the missing thing for me is how that gets made
[19:25] <Sleep_Walker> faenil: the document ogra_ wrote relies on puritine and I don't seem to have it
[19:25] <tedg> popey: Generally, I don't think you want that, eh? To avoid porting it?
[19:25] <sebsebseb> ogra_: yeah I saw that before I am bit confuessed though
[19:25] <ogra_> purtine is the whole container with all apps inside
[19:25] <sebsebseb> ogra_: is everything there done in the terminal?
[19:25] <tedg> It is a read only chroot
[19:25] <sebsebseb> ogra_: also why do you have to nick say the gimp icon,  the gimp icon could then be used to actaully load up both gimp and inkscape?
[19:26] <tedg> popey: But for completeness the puritine building tools are in the libertine repo. It's done by Jenkins.
[19:26] <ChrisTownsend> What's the question?
[19:26] <ogra_> sebsebseb, no idea, i'm justa user in this case :)
[19:26] <sebsebseb> ogra_: and then it warns about stuff going wrong to,  what's the worst that could happen, and have you followed that guide?
[19:26] <tedg> ChrisTownsend: They want to build their own RO libertine containers like puritine.
[19:26] <ogra_> and ship them as click packages in the store
[19:26] <ogra_> (well, popey wants) :)
[19:27] <popey> I want to take random x app and make a click so i can put it on all my devices
[19:27] <popey> like what you have with firefox etc
[19:27] <popey> and my friend wants it to, so I thought I'd put it in the store
[19:27] <ChrisTownsend> popey: Well, it's not so simple.
[19:28] <bregma> popey, it's kind of like overseeding your friend's garden with zucchini
[19:28] <ChrisTownsend> popey: Currently, I build a huge deb in a non-virtual armhf PPA.
[19:28] <faenil> Sleep_Walker: you don't need puritine afaik. Puritine is only the container that is shipped with the M10 with the apps preinstalled
[19:28] <ChrisTownsend> popey: Then download that deb and extract it.
[19:28] <popey> ok, thats cool, i can do that
[19:28] <bregma> popey, you're better off just creating a libertine container on your device and the installing the debs into it
[19:28] <bregma> and for that, you want OTA-11
[19:29] <popey> I absolutely don't want to do that
[19:29] <sebsebseb> popey: oh you want the apps in a more native way yeah?
[19:29] <sebsebseb> not this hackey thing
[19:29] <popey> I would like to make the simple x app available to multiple people
[19:29] <popey> not as a command line hack on my tablet alone
[19:29] <sebsebseb> popey: indeed to that :)
[19:30] <bregma> popey, the other right thing to do is wait until snaps are supported on the phone, then usesnapcraft to build a libertine snap
[19:30] <popey> hahahah
[19:30] <popey> yeah, okay
[19:30] <popey> so that'll be good for next year
[19:30] <popey> I'm talking about this year
[19:30] <sebsebseb> convergence x apps  installed from the app store, that's what popey means I think
[19:30] <ChrisTownsend> popey: Yeah, the way I make Puritine is quick hackey.  Just trying to give instructions in this channel is going to be frustrating at the very least.
[19:30] <bregma> mean time, wait for OTA-11 and the libertine scope and everything is *much* easier
[19:30] <ChrisTownsend> I mean quite hackey
[19:31] <ChrisTownsend> bregma: He wants to build his own bespoke container, package it in a click and make it available for folks to install.
[19:31] <tedg> popey: If X is the only requirement, that's just putting a key in your desktop file. But you'll need to deal with window management yourself.
[19:31] <popey> I agree that providing documentation via irc is not ideal
[19:31] <popey> I was kinda hoping a doc somewhere may exist which details how this might be done
[19:31] <bregma> I'm suggesting it's not a good idea, that's all
[19:32] <ChrisTownsend> bregma: I agree
[19:32] <bregma> it's possible, it's just going to be painful
[19:32] <tedg> It's not documented for a reason :-)
[19:32] <popey> Why is it not a good idea?
[19:32] <ChrisTownsend> Indeed, painful.
[19:32] <popey> Every time I ask this question I get handwavy "it's painful" and never an actual answer
[19:32] <popey> which in itself, is painful
[19:33] <ChrisTownsend> popey: Because I made up the whole stuff and it's a pain in the ass for me to make up the Puritine click.
[19:33] <bregma> for a start, the containers end up being huge and hard on my bandwidth costs
[19:33] <ChrisTownsend> popey: Right, and what bregma just said.
[19:33] <popey> I don't understand why you care what mine and my friends bandwidth costs are
[19:34] <tedg> popey: Because basically you're installing a full OS for one app. For each app.
[19:34] <popey> I mean, it's nice of you.
[19:34] <popey> tedg: thats a better answer :)
[19:34] <bregma> well, like I said, it's possible, just a matter of creating a container and slapping it in a click mostly
[19:34] <ChrisTownsend> popey: Well, that is what is meant by "being huge".
[19:35] <bregma> still, if you use the libertine scope it will be that much easier
[19:35] <bregma> because at least that way the installed apps will surface and be launchable
[19:35] <popey> I look forward to OTA-11 and this new functionality.
[19:35] <bregma> it will end all wars and we'll be home by Christmas
[19:36] <Sleep_Walker> faenil: where is libertine container installed to?
[19:36] <faenil> can't remember, ogra_?
[19:36]  * faenil -> dinner
[19:37] <bregma> Sleep_Walker, when you create your own container it goes somewhere in ~/.cache
[19:38] <Sleep_Walker> bregma: right, thanks!
[19:38] <ChrisTownsend> Sleep_Walker: ~/.cache/libertine-container to be more exact
[19:38] <sebsebseb> so the libertine scope, what will that be?
[19:39] <ChrisTownsend> sebsebseb: It is a scope that will surface apps and icons in all defined containers and make them available to launch.
[19:39] <ChrisTownsend> sebsebseb: No more having to use hacked up .desktop files.
[19:40] <bregma> sebsebseb, it searches your libertine containers for installed applications (or at least they .desktop files they bundle in their debs) and lets you launch them through XMir
[19:40] <sebsebseb> ChrisTownsend: you mean a bit like say play on Linux,  GUI wine thing?
[19:40] <sebsebseb> ChrisTownsend: or Codeweavers ?
[19:40] <sebsebseb> but yeah for
[19:40] <sebsebseb> well not runing WIndow stuff :d
[19:40] <ChrisTownsend> sebsebseb: Yeah, kind of like that.
[19:41] <sebsebseb> should sort out the depdances etc icons etc
[19:41] <bregma> sebsebseb, it's a bit like the regular dash, except it finds debs instead of clicks and always launches XMir
[19:41] <sebsebseb> and  then voilla
[19:41] <sebsebseb> can start having more of what programs are wanted, and easier?
[19:41] <bregma> sebsebseb, yes
[19:41] <sebsebseb> so it will just search the normal repos for anything?
[19:41] <sebsebseb> or  selected stuff only? choosen packages?
[19:41] <ChrisTownsend> sebsebseb: Only installed packages
[19:42] <ChrisTownsend> sebsebseb: You will need to use the GUI or CLI to install packages in the container.
[19:42] <sebsebseb> I want say program xyz  it's in the Ubuntu repos the normal ones, I can get it?
[19:42] <bregma> sebsebseb, except finding and installing the programs is still going to be hard, because XMir is still very much pre-consumer and we expect a lot of problems with random packages
[19:42] <sebsebseb> yes not everything will work in it, I reolise that
[19:42] <ChrisTownsend> sebsebseb: Yes, you can use the Libertine GUI or the Libertine CLI, ie, not the Libertine Scope.
[19:43] <ChrisTownsend> sebsebseb: But it will do an apt-get from the archive in the container.
[19:43] <bregma> there's a Linertine GUI app (the "top hat" app) to manage your containers and apps, but it's not like using the store
[19:43] <sebsebseb> the libertine GUI will be like a package manager?  like software centre or Synaptic etc?
[19:44] <ChrisTownsend> sebsebseb: The GUI is the container manager, so you can create and delete containers, install and remove packages, etc.
[19:44] <bregma> there will be a consumer-friendly store scope for installing from the Ubuntu archives into a Libertine container, but not for a while
[19:44] <sebsebseb> containers you mean like Wine?  wine can have like different set ups for differnet programs
[19:44] <bregma> not until things like proper multi-window support and cut-and-paste are fully working
[19:44] <ChrisTownsend> sebsebseb: It's a very, very simple package manager.  You can enter the exact package name, or do a search which is based on apt-cache search.
[19:44] <bregma> sebsebseb, yes, multiple containers are possible
[19:45] <sebsebseb> multiple set ups depending on program right ok
[19:45] <ChrisTownsend> A container is like a bottle.
[19:45] <sebsebseb> so it will be able to search for anything, but if the program installs and works or not that's just questionable
[19:45] <sebsebseb> that was my undersatnidng all along with xmir, it's quite new,  not all programs will work with it etc
[19:46] <sebsebseb> or work properly
[19:46] <bregma> sebsebseb, most people do not share your understanding, so we're not making it easy for them
[19:46] <ChrisTownsend> sebsebseb: Right, but some packages are broken in that they don't always pull in everything they depend on.
[19:47] <sebsebseb> yep depdandancies hell ilke with normal distros in the past :D
[19:47] <sebsebseb> not so mucn now
[19:47] <ChrisTownsend> sebsebseb: A container is very minimal and some packages assume they are being installed on a full system.
[19:47] <ChrisTownsend> Indeed!
[19:47] <sebsebseb> package depdancies
[19:47] <sebsebseb> so this GUI thing though
[19:47] <sebsebseb> is it going to have like some trusted suggested packages in it?
[19:47] <sebsebseb> and then if want to try something else search for it y9ourself
[19:48] <ChrisTownsend> sebsebseb: Nope, it's blank the first time firing it up.  You'll need to create a container and then explicitly install packages.
[19:48] <sebsebseb> a libertine or whatever it's called container you mean?
[19:48] <ChrisTownsend> sebsebseb: Yes a Libertine container.
[19:49] <sebsebseb> what's purtine as well by the way?
[19:49] <bregma> sebsebseb, the Libertine "Store" should have suggested and featured packages, just Ubuntu SOftware does in Unity 7 right now
[19:49] <sebsebseb> bregma: ok yeah that sounds good :)
[19:49] <bregma> sebsebseb, Puritine is a pre-packages Libertine container
[19:49] <sebsebseb> so there will be two package managers really, one for native apps, and one for convergence apps
[19:49] <ChrisTownsend> sebsebseb: Puritine a special custom curated Libertine container w/ 5 apps pre-installed for inclusion on convergence devices.
[19:50] <bregma> it was for demonstrating what can be done
[19:50] <sebsebseb> ChrisTownsend: is that the one that's on the BQ tablet by default then purtine?
[19:50] <ChrisTownsend> sebsebseb: Yes
[19:50] <sebsebseb> rihght ok I got that then
[19:50] <sebsebseb> since I got one of the tablets
[19:50] <sebsebseb> that explaisn the hack a bit I think the linked to one
[19:50] <sebsebseb> you basically edit purtine like that to do own stuff?
[19:50] <bregma> sebsebseb, a final step will be to merge the package managers into an aggregating scope, so one place to discover and install software
[19:50] <popey> ChrisTownsend: so do i understand that a user will be able to use the scope to install -any- x app from tge archive?
[19:50] <popey> *the
[19:51] <bregma> popey, yes
[19:51] <ChrisTownsend> popey: No, not the Libertine Scope.
[19:51] <popey> hahah
[19:51] <popey> yes/no
[19:51] <popey> pick only one
[19:51] <ChrisTownsend> popey: It's only for surfacing apps and making them launchable.
[19:51] <bregma> popey, you can do that today from the Libertine GUI app
[19:51] <ChrisTownsend> Libertine GUI != Libertine Scope
[19:51] <mhall119> popey: http://blog_uploads.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/screenshot20160506_105618896.png is the libertine GUI app searching the archives
[19:51] <sebsebseb> yeah the scope is for displaying what's installed like a menu I guess :d
[19:52] <sebsebseb> and  Libertine GUI is for installing or the command line way
[19:52] <bregma> popey, there's the Libertine Scope for surafcing and launching installed apps (coming for OTA-11), and a Libertine Store scope for discovering and installing apps (somewhere down the pipe)
[19:52] <popey> gotcha
[19:52] <bregma> "Store" might be a misnomer, I don;t think it's supposed to support paid apps
[19:53] <ChrisTownsend> sebsebseb: When OTA11 is released, it will be much easier to create your own container along side the Puritine container.
[19:53] <mhall119> Libertine Apt Scope
[19:53] <sebsebseb> bregma: Libertuine GUI may not be in OTA 11?
[19:53] <popey> how does one get libertine app that mhall119 just linked to?
[19:53] <mhall119> would be the most accurate way to describe it
[19:53] <mhall119> popey: apt-get install libertine libertine-scope
[19:53] <popey> on a tablet
[19:53] <popey> not desktop
[19:53] <bregma> popey, sebsebseb the Libertine GUI is only available as a deb right now
[19:53] <popey> ok
[19:53] <bregma> because, well, for reasons
[19:53] <popey> heh
[19:53] <mhall119> enable writable system partition, apt-get install libertine libertine-scope
[19:53] <popey> nope
[19:53] <popey> not making my tablet writable :)
[19:54] <popey> I'm a user! :)
[19:54] <ChrisTownsend> Ya, still a little rough around the edges:)
[19:54] <sebsebseb> ChrisTownsend: bregma and then as a side thing get copy and paste between programs working and using without a phsyicall keyboard to and yep convergene is better :)
[19:54] <mhall119> popey: re-package libertine as a click, upload to store, install libertine app
[19:54] <popey> mhall119: welcome to where we came in :)
[19:54] <mhall119> dammit
[19:55] <sebsebseb> popey: you really don't want to do the earleir linked to hack for purtine though?
[19:55] <popey> no
[19:55] <popey> I'm using this tablet as a user
[19:55] <bregma> the Libertine GUI is a QML app, so it can just be packaged as a click
[19:55] <sebsebseb> popey: whhy not, since you want something more native?
[19:55] <popey> I don't want to do hacky things on it
[19:55] <sebsebseb> ah right I see
[19:55] <sebsebseb> worried someting will go wrong?
[19:55] <popey> I have other devices for that
[19:55] <popey> no, I just dont want to do things a normal user wouldn't do
[19:55] <ChrisTownsend> Yep, Libertine GUI is most definitely click-able.
[19:56] <sebsebseb> why's that this time?
[19:56] <mhall119> like use a first-gen Ubuntu tablet?
[19:56] <sebsebseb> mhall119:  h e h :d
[19:56] <sebsebseb> mhall119: actsaully I think a normal user if the fan boys count as normal users, the kind on om g ubuntu I mean :d,  then sure they would use it already h eh :d
[19:56] <sebsebseb> quite a few
[19:56] <mhall119> ChrisTownsend: what about things like the libertine-lxc-manager can that be delivered via click?
[19:57] <mhall119> or would some things need to go into the system-image?
[19:57] <ChrisTownsend> mhall119: libertine-lxc-manager is really only for the desktop, so a click is unnecessary.
[19:57] <sebsebseb> popey: what will you us the tablet for :d
[19:57] <bregma> mhall119, we're better off having the libertine tools (no GUI) in the system image, along with XMir
[19:57] <mhall119> oh, it's not needed on phablets?
[19:58] <ChrisTownsend> mhall119: LXC is not on devices.
[19:58] <ChrisTownsend> mhall119: Nope
[19:58] <mhall119> oh, ok
[19:58] <popey> sebsebseb: what everyone uses tablets for
[19:58] <sebsebseb> what is a phablet really, I think I looked that up before, but didn't quite find out
[19:58] <popey> big phone
[19:58] <ChrisTownsend> phone+tablet
[19:58] <mhall119> sebsebseb: phone+tablet
[19:58] <ChrisTownsend> lol
[19:58] <sebsebseb> oh
[19:58] <mhall119> really, the range of devices that go from phone to tablet
[19:59] <sebsebseb> and sure the bq tablet is basically ubuntu phone on a big thing
[19:59] <sebsebseb> ,but  can it do calls?
[19:59] <bregma> sebsebseb, "phablet" is a portmanteau, a fake word made up to describe something new
[19:59] <sebsebseb> oh ok
[20:00] <sebsebseb> I see and yeah I knew it was a well tech term at least :d
[20:00] <sebsebseb> not so much a made up word
[20:00] <sebsebseb> anyway so OTA 11 is in about three months?
[20:00] <pmcgowan> no couple weeks
[20:01] <sebsebseb> really only two weeks?
[20:01] <sebsebseb> well I suppoues 10 was the other month
[20:01] <pmcgowan> we plan for every 6 weeks, it slipped a week this time
[20:02] <sebsebseb> 6 weeks or about and a OTA ok :)
[20:02] <sebsebseb> why are things based on 15.04  I seen certian tablet reievws mentiong that even
[20:02] <sebsebseb> plus I noticed that the putine stuff is from 14.04 even or so it seems
[20:02] <popey> I look forward to being able to install hexchat ㋛
[20:03] <sebsebseb> popey: h eh yeah and I remember that chat the other day
[20:04] <bregma> popey, after some bugfixes in OTA-11 land, you can do that from the command line
[20:04] <ChrisTownsend> sebsebseb: puritine is based on 15.04 (vivid)
[20:04] <pmcgowan> there was an ABI break in 15.10 so we stayed on 0 longer
[20:04] <pmcgowan> 04 that is
[20:04] <sebsebseb> ChrisTownsend: ok, but why not 15.10  at least then?
[20:05] <ChrisTownsend> sebsebseb: The container really should match the host's release or there are problems, particularly if the container is newer than the host.
[20:05] <popey> this is all quite exciting stuff. good work chaps! :)
[20:05] <sebsebseb> the host as in the version of Ubuntu touch you mean?
[20:05] <ChrisTownsend> sebsebseb: I tried to get Wily to run in the container on the phone and it simply did not work.
[20:05] <sebsebseb> but why is Ubuntu touch based on 15.04 as well?
[20:06] <sebsebseb> popey: it is yeah
[20:06] <ChrisTownsend> sebsebseb: Yes, Ubuntu Touch version.
[20:06] <pmcgowan> sebsebseb, there was a new gcc in 15.10 that changed ABI
[20:06] <ChrisTownsend> popey: Thanks
[20:06] <sebsebseb> yes I know what gcc is or have enough of an idea,  ABI  on the other hand sounds familur, but I am thinking what's that
[20:07] <pmcgowan> so we could not maintain compatibility for apps and scopes and such easily
[20:07] <pmcgowan> the interface for binaries
[20:08] <sebsebseb> 15.10 would have changed to much without little gain basically, so Ubuntu touch for now is still based on 15.04 basically?
[20:08] <mhall119> 15.04 + an PPA that brings in newer components for the phone
[20:08] <mhall119> well, phone, tablet, Unity 8 in general, etc
[20:09] <sebsebseb> yep I know it runs some later software than the actsual desktop 15.04, Unity 8 for example
[20:09] <ChrisTownsend> sebsebseb: Making a bunch of folks recompile their apps and scopes is not what we wanted to do.
[20:10] <sebsebseb> ChrisTownsend: well yeah unless with good enough reason
[20:10] <ChrisTownsend> sebsebseb: Exactly
[20:10] <sebsebseb> some people think it will soon be based on 16.04,  but will it?
[20:10] <pmcgowan> yes, for some definition of soon
[20:10] <sebsebseb> uhmm  I don't know three months?
[20:11]  * mhall119 flashes his phones for OSCON
[20:11] <mhall119> this convergence demo is going to be awesome
[20:12] <sebsebseb> mhall119: why?
[20:12] <sebsebseb> oh
[20:12] <sebsebseb> whih convergence demo?
[20:12] <mhall119> sebsebseb: because I haven't updated them since SCaLE in January
[20:12] <sebsebseb> so your staritng over factory reset?
[20:12] <mhall119> sebsebseb: with the new dynamic scaling in Unity 8, hot-plugging/unplugging from a monitor will work well
[20:13] <mhall119> sebsebseb: on my demo phones, yes
[20:13] <mhall119> not my daily-use phone
[20:13] <sebsebseb> what is your demo phone?
[20:13] <mhall119> that one gets updates almost daily
[20:13] <mhall119> sebsebseb: they're all Nexus 4
[20:13] <sebsebseb> mhall119: why no acstaul offical Ubuntu touch hardware, since it's a bit harder to get in USA generally or can be, and  doens't work so well with the US networks?
[20:14] <mhall119> sebsebseb: because I have these Nexus 4s already, and because they have hardware video out support
[20:14] <sebsebseb> video out to a T?
[20:14] <sebsebseb> TV?
[20:14] <mhall119> sebsebseb: to anything with HDMI input
[20:15] <mhall119> popey: are you bringing any commercial devices?
[20:15] <sebsebseb> popey: mhall119 maybe not that sat on one :d
[20:20] <popey> mhall119: eh?
[20:20] <popey> mhall119: oh, next week.
[20:21] <mhall119> popey: was wondering if you had any Bq or Meizu devices you're bringing, other then the M10 (which I'm just assuming you're bringing)
[20:21] <popey> I'll have 2x bq e4.5, 1x bq m10
[20:21] <popey> mx4 is still broken
[20:21] <popey> i should pack
[20:21] <popey> getting picked up in 12 hours
[20:21] <sebsebseb> ogra_: I might try that hack  soon :d
[20:22] <sebsebseb> popey: mhall119 OSCON is one of the US events I think
[20:22] <sebsebseb> popey: off to the US again?
[20:22] <mhall119> popey: see you tomorrow then
[20:22] <mhall119> sebsebseb: yes, in Texas this year
[20:22] <sebsebseb> popey: Canonical paying for you to go :d ?
[20:22] <popey> i should hope so
[20:22] <mhall119> sebsebseb: well he's working, so yes
[20:23] <sebsebseb> popey: mhall119 what you guys going to do at OSCON?  run an Ubuntu stand?
[20:23] <popey> Really looking forward to this week. Gonna be super busy
[20:23] <mhall119> sebsebseb: yes, also attending community leadership summit and having a team sprint, we'll be busy
[20:23] <sebsebseb> mhall119: popey  he h no video q a on Tuesday I guess :D
[20:24]  * mhall119 is wondering if he can get a backpack with a laptop, tablet, 2 phones, a bluetooth keyboard and 2 wireless mice through airport security
[20:24] <mhall119> 3 phones, my personal one will be in there as well
[20:24] <sebsebseb> mhall119: yeah probably unless TSA go after geeks now :d
[20:24] <mhall119> I encountered a TSA agent who was quite fond of Red Hat one trip
[20:25] <sebsebseb> oh nice :)
[20:25] <mhall119> thought for sure I was going to get the "enhanced screening" for wearing my Ubuntu shirt
[20:25] <mhall119> oh, hey, the first-boot screens have changed
[20:25] <mhall119> a *lot*
[20:25] <mhall119> these are lovely
[20:25] <sebsebseb> yes it's like Desktop Ubuntu
[20:25] <sebsebseb> been like that for a while
[20:26] <sebsebseb> Plymouth type thing
[20:26] <sebsebseb> that's what you mean I assume to
[20:26] <mhall119> sebsebseb: no, I mean the setup wizard
[20:26] <sebsebseb> oh
[20:26] <mhall119> I see the bootsplash often enough on my own phone, but haven't done a new setup in a while
[20:27] <mhall119> oh, I can give it a name now?
[20:27] <sebsebseb> popey: 16th May to 19th OSCON,  so your going a bit earlier to spend time with mhall119  then :d  special time
[20:28] <mhall119> sebsebseb: CLS is 14 & 15
[20:28] <sebsebseb> and to adjust to the time zone maybe
[20:29] <sebsebseb> oh there's another one first
[20:29] <sebsebseb> CLS? what's that?
[20:30] <mhall119> sebsebseb: http://www.communityleadershipsummit.com/
[20:30] <sebsebseb> JOno at that one
[20:30] <popey> it is indeed quite handy to stream the tablet to your laptop http://imgur.com/oPD7qVV :)
[20:30] <sebsebseb> mhall119: that was just coincidence at same kind of place or?
[20:31] <mhall119> sebsebseb: no, it's been co-hosted with OSCON before
[20:31] <popey> mhall119: the first boot screens are great, until you get to the location one
[20:31] <sebsebseb> popey: how did you streame tablet to lap top?
[20:31] <popey> sorry, timezone
[20:31] <mhall119> popey: because you can't go back after that
[20:31] <mhall119> ?
[20:31] <popey> sebsebseb: shell script
[20:31] <popey> http://popey.imgur.com/all/
[20:32] <sebsebseb> what's the script I guess :D
[20:32] <popey> bah
[20:32] <mhall119> what's wrong with the timezone screen?
[20:32] <popey> http://i.imgur.com/aFZC2in.jpg
[20:32] <popey> the map, osx and purple banner take a lot of room
[20:32] <popey> with the osx overlapping the map
[20:32] <mhall119> oh, it looks fine on a phone :)
[20:32] <popey> so you cant actually see it
[20:32] <popey> hah
[20:32] <sebsebseb> for some reason my tablet thinks I am in London after first set up which is not the case, but I will be re setting up soonish anyway, but I wonder what had happended there
[20:32] <popey> I'll bring these two with me http://imgur.com/SNy4nIX
[20:33] <popey> yeah, mine thinks I'm in london, pull down refresh changes that
[20:33] <popey> I wonder if I can stream my tablet directly to twitch or youtube
[20:33] <popey> should be possible
[20:33] <sebsebseb> popey: pull down refresth changes it where?  I looked for some kind of changing optoin but coudnt' seem to find
[20:33] <popey> in the nearby scope for example
[20:34] <sebsebseb> it's up staris right now, but I'll have to take a look at that
[20:34] <sebsebseb> which phones are those two?  they both look black and yeah :d
[20:34] <popey> both e4.5
[20:35] <sebsebseb> oh ok
[20:35] <sebsebseb> popey: when you going back from USA?
[20:35] <popey> next week
[20:35] <sebsebseb> day after event?  OSCON?
[20:36] <sebsebseb> popey: no proper tourist day :D on Canonical's money h eh
[20:36] <sebsebseb> ?
[20:36] <popey> nah
[20:36] <sebsebseb> back day after, or last day of event?
[20:36] <popey> yeah, back after oscon
[20:37] <popey> mhall119: have you seen there's a telegram snap in the store now?
[20:37] <sebsebseb> popey: on the same day would suck though, since your in well quite a time zone differnece
[20:37] <popey> its an overnight flight back from us
[20:37] <popey> so sleepy sleepington
[20:37] <sebsebseb> but I suppouse can sleepon plane sure
[20:38] <popey> some of the app names in the snap store are fun
[20:38] <popey> sudo                   1                        not sudo
[20:38] <sebsebseb> the snap store for desktop?  not used that
[20:38] <sebsebseb> or did  you mean touch?
[20:39] <popey> desktop
[20:39] <popey> right, off to pack... ttfn
[20:39] <sebsebseb> yeah  not on 16.04 yet
[20:39] <sebsebseb> popey: ok have fun in USA etc :)
[20:39] <mhall119> popey: no, is it the desktop app or the Ubuntu SDK one?
[20:56] <popey> mhall119: desktop
[20:57] <mhall119> ah, I want to see our version gain convergence layouts
[20:58] <mhall119> popey: is there a way to get the dark theme back for the file manager?
[20:59] <popey> install an old click
[20:59] <popey> patches welcome
[20:59] <popey> trolololo
[21:00] <mhall119> I'll file bugs, that's almost as good as a patch right?
[21:00] <popey> no
[21:00] <popey> lets work on this next week :)
[21:00] <popey> I'll patch if you help :)
[21:00] <mhall119> I might be up for that
[21:00] <mhall119> as long as it's in the QML parts
[21:00] <popey> yes
[21:00] <popey> +1
[21:00] <popey> ^5
[21:01] <mhall119> but, keyboard shortcuts in the terminal first
[21:01] <mhall119> because using the mouse is killing me
[21:01] <popey> +1
[21:01] <popey> deal
[21:06]  * mhall119 files bugs
[21:47] <mhall119> sergiusens: is your telegram snap fully confined?
[21:47] <mhall119> (other than X11 that is)
[21:47] <sergiusens> mhall119 yes
[21:48] <mhall119> \o/
[21:48] <mhall119> and does the unity7 plug/slot thing mean you don't have to bundle all the runtime dependencies that are already installed?
[21:48] <sergiusens> mhall119 it is missing some things though; it doesn't open urls (there's a snapd bug open for that) and there is no menu (lacking interface support)
[21:48] <sergiusens> I am living fine without that
[21:48] <sergiusens> but not using it even as I am working from my bq m10 now
[21:49] <mhall119> menus require a snap interface?
[21:49] <mhall119> sergiusens: well, you have the telegram click for your M10 :)
[21:49] <sergiusens> mhall119 not menus per se, app indicator icon menus
[21:49] <mhall119> oh, those, ok
[21:49] <sergiusens> mhall119 yeah, but I get left out on the super group channels :-P
[21:49] <mhall119> they need something separate from the unity7 interface?
[21:50] <sergiusens> have plenty of those now
[21:50] <sergiusens> mhall119 the unity7 interface needs to be expended to support that
[21:51] <mhall119> ok
[21:53] <ahoneybun> yay video recording is fixed on the N7
[21:53] <ahoneybun> boo playing it from the Video Scope will reboot the device
[21:54] <ahoneybun> mm even file manager
[21:55]  * ahoneybun wonders about filing a bug
[21:57] <ahoneybun> mhall119 any idea where to file it?
[21:57] <ahoneybun> there is no bug about video in camera on LP
[21:57] <ahoneybun> so maybe Media Player?
[22:00] <ahoneybun> mm even Gallery reboots the tablet when trying to play the video
[22:02] <ahoneybun> who can I talk to about clearing some bugs out of there
[22:02] <ahoneybun> there is one from 2013 about the OG N7
[22:08] <ahoneybun> so it is any MP4 file
[22:23] <mhall119> ahoneybun: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mediaplayer-app/+filebug?no_redirect
[22:23] <mhall119> you might also ping jhodapp when he's around about it, in case it's a gstreamer thing
[22:23] <ahoneybun> mhall119 got it from that Avengers page :)
[22:23] <ahoneybun> have the report made but updating to the latest image to see if there are any changes
[22:24] <ahoneybun> I see they jumped from 434 to 436
[22:27] <ahoneybun> damn this update is slow
[22:39] <ahoneybun> mhall119 bug report not needed
[22:44] <mhall119> ahoneybun: did the upgrade fix it?
[22:44] <ahoneybun> yea Media Player plays the recording
[22:44] <ahoneybun> but my MP4 did not play though
[22:45] <ahoneybun> another file not the video I recoreded
[22:45] <ogra_> just use VLC :P
[22:45] <ahoneybun> the built in tools should work
[22:46] <ogra_> definitely (i wasnt serious ... while VLC works, it isnt accelerated ... closer to a slideshow ...)
[22:46] <ahoneybun> yea
[22:46] <ahoneybun> I don't have libertine or anything working on this
[22:46] <ahoneybun> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mediaplayer-app/+bug/1581242
[22:47] <ahoneybun> ohhhh links work in Synergy
[22:47] <ahoneybun> shared clipboard, nice!
[22:52] <ahoneybun> mm how does Libertine work...
[22:53] <ogra_> very nicely
[22:53] <mhall119> ahoneybun: you need to install libertine and libertine-scope from the archives
[22:53] <ogra_> not if he runs ubuntu-pd
[22:53] <ahoneybun> yea -scope is not on the repos for me yet
[22:53] <ogra_> (and you dont need -scope)
[22:54] <ahoneybun> also need some other deb that I don't have
[22:54] <ahoneybun> maybe the arm one
[22:54] <ogra_> if you are on the -pd image libertine-container image is installed
[22:54] <ogra_> err
[22:54] <ogra_> libertine-container-manager
[22:54] <ogra_> ahoneybun, https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yJepibh68YaQijWO3Z3dWTtTTmzXnMmEE8eswhUXzw4/edit
[22:54] <ahoneybun> ogra_ don't think there is one for the N7
[22:54] <ogra_> no need to tinker with the system that way ...
[22:55] <ogra_> there is definitely oone for the N7
[22:55] <ogra_> i used it before i got the M10
[22:55] <ahoneybun> sweet
[22:55] <ogra_> http://system-image.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-touch/rc-proposed/ubuntu-pd/
[22:55] <ogra_> there is a flo build
[22:56] <ogra_> (note that it has the tools but no container preinstalled ... you need to follow the gdoc above to get a container and install apps in it)
[22:57] <ahoneybun> I wish bluetooth working more often
[22:57] <ogra_> invest in an M10 ... the HW support is classes better than for the N7
[22:58] <ahoneybun> I just saw that
[22:58] <ahoneybun> ogra_ kinda silly to get new hardware
[22:59] <ahoneybun> I don't have the money for that
[22:59] <ogra_> yeah
[23:01] <ahoneybun> mm I don't have com.ubuntu.prutine or whaever
[23:02] <ogra_> you only need libertine
[23:02] <bregma> ahoneybun, you don't need puritine, just the libertine tools
[23:02] <ogra_> ah, there is the boss :)
[23:02] <ahoneybun> but that guide says purtine
[23:03] <ogra_> what guide ?
[23:03] <ogra_> (not the one i linnked)
[23:03] <ahoneybun> yep
[23:03] <ogra_> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yJepibh68YaQijWO3Z3dWTtTTmzXnMmEE8eswhUXzw4/edit
[23:03] <ahoneybun> the one you gave
[23:03] <ogra_> oh
[23:03] <ogra_> yeah, ignore that ...
[23:03] <ogra_> you obviously dont need to remove the config if you dont have it
[23:04]  * ogra_ assumes libertine-container-manager will just create it when you run it)
[23:04] <ahoneybun> well I started from the top[
[23:04] <ogra_> right, it is for the M10 ...
[23:04] <ogra_> assuming you have the preinstalled bits
[23:04] <ogra_> whihc the N7 image doesnt
[23:05] <ahoneybun> I did
[23:05] <ahoneybun> trying to make a container
[23:05] <ahoneybun> *trying
[23:05] <ogra_> good luck :)
[23:06] <ahoneybun> says I have no container
[23:06] <ahoneybun> lol
[23:06] <bregma> ahoneybun, if you're using an N7, make sure you have the python3-libertine-chroot package installed
[23:06] <ahoneybun> mm
[23:06] <ahoneybun> add as a dep please :)
[23:07] <bregma> can't add it as a dep because it's only for some hardware and not others
[23:08] <ahoneybun> mm something broken when installing that
[23:08] <ahoneybun> updating to see what happened
[23:08] <ahoneybun> I don't think apt upgrade will be good for OTAs
[23:09] <ahoneybun> yay
[23:10] <ahoneybun> the heck is ID?
[23:10] <ahoneybun> libertine-container-manager create asks for -i/--id bregma
[23:10] <ogra_> lol
[23:11] <ogra_> libertine-container-manager create -i puritine2 -n "Puritine 2" -t chroot -d vivid --force
[23:11] <ogra_> -i
[23:11] <bregma> I haven't been asked for ID for years
[23:11] <bregma> ahoneybun, you need to give your container a unique identifier, one that can be used as a directory name in the filesystem (so, no '/' character)
[23:12] <ogra_> -i/--id is the id of the container you create
[23:12] <bregma> you don't need to specify "-t chroot" or "-d vivid" it's smart enough to do the right thing by default
[23:13] <ahoneybun> a name?
[23:13] <ahoneybun> what do I name it?
[23:13] <ogra_> oh, sisnce when ?
[23:13] <ahoneybun> like -i wise
[23:13] <ogra_> (it didnt when i created my last contaainer=
[23:13] <ogra_> -i ahoneybun-funny-container-foo
[23:13] <ogra_> just pick one ...
[23:14] <bregma> ogra_, the latest version in the archives has a whole lot of fixes, ready for OTA-11
[23:14] <ogra_> ah, i'm on stable ... so still OTA10
[23:15] <bregma> I wonder of we should look at autogenerating some unique random ID
[23:15]  * ogra_ tries the "true experience"
[23:15] <ogra_> yeah
[23:15] <bregma> I'd hate to have to type all those random characters while testing though
[23:15] <ahoneybun> I'm on r436 now
[23:15] <ogra_> well
[23:15] <ahoneybun> rc-proposed
[23:15] <ahoneybun> not my phone so
[23:15] <ogra_> and you would have a prob to install multiple packkages in the same container
[23:15] <ahoneybun> till mariogrip gets a update out lol
[23:15] <ahoneybun> maybe
[23:15] <ogra_> if you cant memorize the name
[23:16] <bregma> the GUI works for that, no need to memorize
[23:16] <bregma> also, I ssh into everything
[23:16] <ogra_> so probably not random ... but iterating number suffix or so
[23:17] <bregma> originally I had a default ID of the distro name plus an increasing suffix, I think that code got replaced at some point
[23:18] <bregma> then again, originally I was installing Debian sid in the container because there wasn't a core Ubuntu to use yet
[23:19] <bregma> I don't think that would even work any more
[23:19] <ogra_> oh ?
[23:19] <bregma> been toying with this thing for a long time
[23:19] <bregma> it might work,
[23:19] <ogra_> oh, 15.04 ...
[23:20] <ogra_> yeah, ubuntu-core tarballs for that might be gone indeed
[23:21] <mariogrip> ahoneybun: update, me? :P the server should handle that
[23:21] <ogra_> in general they are under http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-base/releases/
[23:21] <mariogrip> #evertthingautomated :P
[23:21] <ahoneybun> mariogrip kinda hard to move from Android with this Android Wear though
[23:22] <mariogrip> oh, im working on some magic there too, i miss my moto 360
[23:22] <ahoneybun> oh boy!
[23:22] <ahoneybun> I have a Moto 360 now as well
[23:22] <mariogrip> awesome :D
[23:23] <ahoneybun> want to try something with my Nexus mariogrip?
[23:23] <mariogrip> ahoneybun: what?
[23:23] <ahoneybun> video works on my N7 now so Hangouts!
[23:24] <ahoneybun> making a chroot atm
[23:24] <mariogrip> sure :P call me when you want to test it out :P
[23:25] <ogra_> (was "ubuntu-core" til last week... just got renamed to -base)
[23:25] <ogra_> slangasek, wow, you renamed the old ubuntu-core tarballs retroactively ?
[23:25]  * ogra_ wonders how many peoples scripts will break :)
[23:26] <ahoneybun> XD
[23:26] <patwest> Is there a way to play video form the sd card without it copying the movie to the internal storage?
[23:27] <mariogrip> ogra_: what? why is ubuntu-core renamed?
[23:27] <ogra_> mariogrip, to solve naming confusion with snappy
[23:28] <ogra_> patwest, if you use the video scope it doesnt get copied around
[23:28] <ogra_> iirc thats just an issue when using the file manager
[23:28] <patwest> I see, I will have to try that
[23:28] <Acou_Bass> ahoneybun: which browser does it work in?
[23:28] <ahoneybun> default
[23:28] <mariogrip> oh so it's not the ubuntu-core (snappy iot version) that is renamed ogra_
[23:28] <ahoneybun> Acou_Bass
[23:28] <mariogrip> right?
[23:29] <ogra_> no, the way older ubuntu-core tarball
[23:29] <Acou_Bass> ohh cool, when i tried it in default browser it said i needed a plugin... is this an rc build or something?
[23:29] <Acou_Bass> sorry ive only just gotten here and joined the conversation =)
[23:29] <mariogrip> ok :)
[23:29] <ogra_> (that exists since years ... but with snappy ubuntu core that became confusing)
[23:29] <ahoneybun> Acou_Bass I'm on rc-proposed
[23:29] <Acou_Bass> ahh
[23:29] <ahoneybun> don't think it is in OTA10
[23:30] <ahoneybun> will be in OTA11 for sure though
[23:30] <Acou_Bass> sweet, ill wait for OTA then hee
[23:30] <patwest> Has anyone gotten 128GB sd cards working on a BQ M10?
[23:30] <mariogrip> ahoneybun: could you try a app for me on your tablet when you have time?
[23:31] <ahoneybun> mariogrip of course
[23:31] <ahoneybun> damn chroot takes time
[23:31] <ogra_> patwest, works fine on mine
[23:31] <ahoneybun> wish this had a progress bar
[23:33] <patwest> ogra_: strange, I got a 64GB card working but the 128GB card is detected but does want to mount. What filesystem is on your card?
[23:36] <ahoneybun> mariogrip your not on Hangouts you know
[23:36] <ahoneybun> lol
[23:37] <mariogrip> ahoneybun: sorry i had to accept u
[23:37] <ahoneybun> yep lol
[23:39] <mariogrip> ahoneybun: no answer :P
[23:39] <ahoneybun> was trying
[23:39] <ahoneybun> the window does not scale right
[23:42] <ogra_> patwest, vfat indeed
[23:42] <ogra_> (other FSes arent supported)
[23:43] <mterry> tedg, you're not still around, I assume?


[04:25] <xilet> Another block device question, with lxc I have /etc/lxc/defaults.conf with lxc.cgroup.devices.allow = b 43:* rwm.  If I start an lxc container manually I can attach a storage device and use it normally inside the container. However if I deploy a juju container I can attach the device, it shows up but won't let me access it.
[04:25] <xilet> Is there another place with juju charms that defines the lxc defaults for those sorts of settings to allow device access?
[04:25] <xilet> Juju 2.0
[06:59] <admcleod> magicaltrout: noooo
[10:00] <admcleod> kjackal: so im thinking abotu our bigtop charms, and the principal and any subordinates will both unpack the bigtop repo to /home/ubuntu/bigtop.deploy right?
[10:01] <kjackal> yes
[10:02] <admcleod> kjackal: so this means if we're writing any values to hiera files we have to consider them stateless - we write, we apply, we imagine they're gone (because they might be)
[10:04] <kjackal> yes, true
[10:05] <kjackal> now if these values propagate to a resource that is shared accross bigtop roles (eg a shared hadoop-core.xml file) then we might get into trouble
[10:08] <admcleod> kjackal: yeah. well. it would have to be specific values in that file, e.g. hdfs-site.xml ... and i think the top layer's value should take precedence
[10:58] <admcleod> hey kwmonroe_, your bigtop smoke-test stuff works ootb with sqoop without any template mods (as long as i hardset the env var)
[11:08] <kjackal_> admcleod: how long does it take to run?
[11:13] <kjackal_> 3 minutes, looks fine
[12:37] <petevg> admcleod, kjackal: stateless hiera files are the reason that I stashed the list of Zookeeper nodes in a .json file under the Zookeeper charm's resources directory. Whenever I run puppet, I read from that  file, and pass it in as an override. I'm not sure whether that's a best practice, though.
[13:01] <admcleod> petevg: what is it you're putting in that json file again?
[13:26] <petevg> admcleod: the list of zk peers. We override the ensemble var in heirdata, and it ends up getting written to the zookeeper config.
[13:29] <admcleod> petevg: so you write the peers to the hieradata and then run puppet apply every time the list changes?
[13:29] <petevg> admcleod: yes.
[13:29] <admcleod> petevg: cool
[13:30] <petevg> :-)
[13:31] <admcleod> petevg: why was it you said you chose not to use leader settings?
[13:32] <petevg> admcleod: the list is different on each box (each node lists itself first), and it has to get updated when a node joins, right before it figures out who the leader is.
[13:32] <petevg> ... so it was either throw in a bunch of waits that made things confusing, or just stick the data somewhere else.
[13:33] <admcleod> petevg: hmm when you say 'figures out who the leader is' are you talking about juju or zookeeper 'figuring'?
[13:33] <petevg> juju
[13:33] <petevg> Zookeeper has its own ideas about leadership, which are separate.
[13:34] <admcleod> right.. i didnt think the leadership election took very long though. if theres one node, its the leader, and if another one joins the first one is still the leader. or so i thought
[13:35] <petevg> Yes. But the node that is joining doesn't figure that out right away, and I get errors trying to write to the leader.
[13:36] <petevg> The wait probably wouldn't be a long one ... it might be worth revisiting and refactoring, now that I've got the basic flow of stuff working.
[13:36] <admcleod> petevg: you might evne be able to use stub's leadership layer to wait until election has completed
[13:38] <admcleod> petevg: https://launchpad.net/layer-leadership
[13:38] <petevg> admcleod: the tricky thing is that I need to persist the state right away. If the process exits because it is waiting for something, then I lose the state.
[13:38] <petevg> I'll play around with it a bit.
[14:29] <neiljerram> Does anyone know how Juju 2's idea of the current controller/model is stored?
[14:30] <neiljerram> If I have a long-running test script in one terminal window, where model 'm1' is the default, can I do 'juju add-model m2 && juju switch m2' in another window, without disturbing the first test?
[14:39] <cherylj> neiljerram: the current controller is stored in your JUJU_DATA (~/.local/share/juju), so if you're using juju switch, it will take effect in all terminals
[14:39] <neiljerram> Thanks cherylj.
[14:39] <cherylj> neiljerram: you can use the JUJU_MODEL env var
[14:40] <cherylj> that should just be local to the terminal it's set in
[14:40] <neiljerram> Ah, great.
[14:40] <neiljerram> I was thinking that I should modify my scripts to put an explicit "-m <model>" parameter in every Juju command.  But JUJU_MODEL would be much simpler.
[14:42] <cherylj> yeah, the commands will look at JUJU_MODEL first, before inspecting what the current model was switched to with 'juju switch'
[14:47] <neiljerram> This is very nearly perfect... :-)  One slight snag, that I just discovered, is that 'juju add-model' implicitly does a 'juju switch' as well - which means there is a risk of disturbing a test that is already running.
[14:50] <neiljerram> I suggest it would be better if 'juju add-model' did not do that.  Then I could do 'juju add-model M2; export JUJU_MODEL=M2' in another window, without any disturbance of the existing test.
[15:28] <Prabakaran> Hello  Team, Can i get any sample layered charm to check peer relation in bash? I am asking this for my learning
[15:35] <arosales> Hello
[15:35] <arosales> charmes have a question for you
[15:35] <arosales> I woud like to contribute to https://jujucharms.com/mediawiki-single
[15:36] <arosales> as the readme is incorrect
[15:36] <arosales> I follow the contribute link to https://code.launchpad.net/~charmers/charms/bundles/mediawiki/bundle
[15:36] <arosales> which does not match the download zip
[15:36] <arosales> :-/
[15:36] <arosales> so I am guessing this was pushed from a different copy that what the contribute link is pointing to
[15:36] <marcoceppi> arosales: mediawiki-single is old, wiki-simple is the new one
[15:37] <arosales> marcoceppi: question still valid but
[15:37] <arosales> I ask as mediawiki-single is the example on  https://jujucharms.com/get-started
[15:41] <arosales> marcoceppi: should we update https://jujucharms.com/get-started to use mediawiki-single and un-promulgate mediawiki-single ?
[15:41] <marcoceppi> arosales: yes, jcastro has been trying to do this for a few weeks now
[15:41] <arosales> sorry update https://jujucharms.com/get-started to use mediawiki-simple and un-promulgate mediawiki-single
[15:42] <arosales> marcoceppi: I was also updating CWR to test the bundle at /get-started
[15:42] <marcoceppi> it's wiki-simple
[15:42] <arosales> marcoceppi: given jcastro has been trying for weeks is there a github bug I can follow up on?
[15:43] <marcoceppi> https://jujucharms.com/wiki-simple/
[15:43] <marcoceppi> probably
[15:43] <marcoceppi> arosales: https://github.com/CanonicalLtd/jujucharms.com/issues/242
[15:45] <valeech> Hello. What are some troubleshooting steps I could take to determine why juju 2.0 beta9 gets stuck boostrapping maas 2.0 beta 7 at the fetching tools stage?
[15:45] <arosales> wow april
[15:46] <arosales> marcoceppi: so should we un-promulgate mediawiki-single then?
[15:46] <marcoceppi> arosales: yes, when the get-started page gets updated
[15:46] <marcoceppi> otherwise we just break the new user experience even more
[15:47] <arosales> marcoceppi: ok, I'll work on that
[15:47] <arosales> marcoceppi: last question
[15:47] <arosales> http://status.juju.solutions/bundle/cwr-test-410
[15:47] <arosales> failing on mysql
[15:47] <marcoceppi> arosales: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/juju/2016-April/007132.html
[15:47] <arosales> should we update wiki-simple to use mariadb?
[15:48] <marcoceppi> ugh, it's the openstack tests.
[15:48] <marcoceppi> the charm works
[15:48] <marcoceppi> the tests don't
[15:48] <arosales> marcoceppi: awesome on the lists and bugs. Just need to follow up on seeing this done
[15:49] <arosales> marcoceppi: I think we can un-promulgate mediawiki-scalable per the mail list post
[15:49] <arosales> and I'll work on updating /get-started so we can unpromulgate mediawiki-single
[15:49] <marcoceppi> arosales: yup
[15:50] <arosales> marcoceppi: can you un-promulgate if I ask nicely?
[15:50] <marcoceppi> arosales: already doing it
[15:50] <arosales> marcoceppi: thanks
[15:50] <arosales> marcoceppi: re mysql the bigdata team is hitting the same thing in their tests
[15:50] <marcoceppi> arosales: because we have openstack tests mixed in the bunch
[15:50] <marcoceppi> I'll update the charm, but I don't think the OS team will appreciate it
[15:51] <arosales> easiest way forward is to use mariadb to show green, but the correct way forward is to not run openstack tests
[15:51] <arosales> marcoceppi: we should keep the openstack tests, but figure out a way to not run them in non-openstack contexts
[15:51] <marcoceppi> well, not having them in the charm is a good start
[15:52] <arosales> beisner: is openstack using mysql or percona as the sql db?
[15:52] <arosales> marcoceppi: sure, we just need to give openstack an alternative to testing mysql in openstack
[15:52] <beisner> hi arosales, marcoceppi - percona-cluster is the primary focus.  we may still have some test bundles with the mysql charm in play, but i'd say it's safe to remove the keystone bits from the mysql amulet tests.
[15:54] <beisner> marcoceppi, arosales - what's the status of mongodb for xenial in the charm store?   seems like i saw some convo around that recently but i don't find one avail.
[15:54] <marcoceppi> beisner: in progress
[15:55] <beisner> marcoceppi, ack thx.  fwiw, we're a bit blocked on cs: bundles for xenial-mitaka as ceilometer requires mongodb.
[15:56] <marcoceppi> beisner: but why not just deploy trusty mongodb?
[15:56] <arosales> beisner: hopefully by end of month we will have an updated mongo as system Z also needs that
[15:57] <beisner> marcoceppi, arosales - hmm, gonna try that now.    this is for system z s390x openstack validation this wk.
[15:57] <arosales> marcoceppi: beisner so where do we stand on mysql openstack tests?
[15:57] <marcoceppi> arosales: sounds like I can just pull the tests
[15:57] <arosales> beisner: I think we need a special system z binary for mongo on z
[15:57] <beisner> arosales, marcoceppi - i'd say it's safe to remove the keystone bits from the mysql amulet tests.
[15:57] <arosales> not yet in the charm
[15:57] <beisner> i'm about to find out :)
[15:57] <arosales> beisner: can marcoceppi pull all the openstack tests or just keystone?
[15:58] <arosales> beisner: no I am telling you re mongo :-)
[15:58] <beisner> arosales, marcoceppi - refactor mysql tests to suit
[15:58] <marcoceppi> beisner: \o/
[15:58] <beisner> dammit arosales :)
[15:58] <marcoceppi> arosales: I'll have it updated today
[15:59] <arosales> beisner: but perhaps some happy coincidence has occurred last time I looked. I just know the IBM system z folks were working on a mongo ppa for Z
[15:59] <arosales> dannf: do you know the status of mongo and xenial or ppa?
[15:59]  * arosales also searching
[15:59] <dannf> arosales: well, the guy doing the work on ibm's side left the company. he has a replacement, but i haven't seen a drop from him yet
[16:01] <arosales> dannf: gotcha, but stock mongo doesn't work on xenial, correct?
[16:01] <arosales> dannf: and no current s390 mongo ppa that you know of
[16:01] <dannf> arosales: correct (not on s390x)
[16:02] <arosales> beisner: ^ :-/
[16:02] <dannf> arosales: correct. i made one: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-s390x-community/+archive/ubuntu/mongodb
[16:02] <dannf> arosales: but mongo FTBFS. i'm sure *we* could fix the build issues, but IBM was supposed to
[16:03] <arosales> dannf: ok thanks for the update I'll email IBM and see how we can move this forward
[16:03] <dannf> arosales: i suspect it's just a missing build-dep fwiw
[16:03] <dannf> arosales: let me forward you the last thread on this...
[16:03] <arosales> beisner: I'll cc you on mail to IBM in working to get a mongo for s390 we can put into charms
[16:03] <arosales> dannf: thanks I'll follow up from there
[16:04] <beisner> arosales, ack.  appreciate it.  be aware that without mongodb, we have no ceilometer.
[16:04] <dannf> arosales: that, and java seems stalled too :(
[16:05] <dannf> arosales: i sent them a git tree w/ fixes for their java packages, but *PLONK*
[16:05] <dannf> (OT here though i suppoe)
[16:06] <beisner> arosales, dannf - sure enough. no mongodb pkgs in ubuntu-ports s390x packages.
[16:07] <dannf> beisner: yeah, main reason for that is that s390x needs a new upstream version - and upgrading mongo in general in ubuntu is an issue, because upstream mongo doesn't support upgrading from the old version we have to current
[16:08] <dannf> beisner: solution for that is to version the mongo packages, so that upgrading isn't an issue, but i don't know of anyone working on that
[16:08] <dannf> s/solution/proposed solution/
[16:10] <andrey-mp> hi all. can I remove my charm from charm store?
[16:19] <beisner> arosales, dannf - fyi, raised for tracking and reference in our current validation docs:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mongodb/+bug/1595242
[16:19] <mup> Bug #1595242: mongodb xenial s390x packages are needed (blocks ceilometer) <s390x> <uosci> <mongodb (Ubuntu):New> <ceilometer (Juju Charms Collection):New> <ceilometer-agent (Juju Charms Collection):New> <mongodb (Juju Charms Collection):New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1595242>
[16:28] <stub> andrey-mp: You can revoke access to it. You can't remove them yet.
[16:29] <andrey-mp> stub: ok, thanks. i already revoked access.
[16:32] <stub> Does open-port take effect immediately, or only if the hook terminates successfully?
[16:44] <arosales> beisner: thanks
[16:55] <aisrael> tvansteenburgh: Do we know for sure bundletester is working with beta 8? This might entirely be pebkac, but it's acting wonky on me. Hanging when a unit hits an error state. Huh, and failing on `juju api-endpoints -e local.reviewqueue:default` because api-endpoints is gone.
[16:57] <tvansteenburgh> aisrael: what's the output of juju list-controllers --format yaml
[16:58] <aisrael> tvansteenburgh: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/17705681/
[16:59] <tvansteenburgh> aisrael: okay, i'll need to see the full output of the test run
[17:00] <aisrael> tvansteenburgh: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/17705768/
[17:01] <aisrael> I don't think it should matter, but this is a fresh xenial install, running in lxd (nested)
[17:02] <tvansteenburgh> aisrael: and you have latest juju-deployer installed?
[17:04] <aisrael> Hm. That might be a problem. I installed it from archives, and that's 0.6.4, and I installed via pip and that's 0.8. Removing the older one will remove amulet, too, but I can pip install that
[17:05] <tvansteenburgh> aisrael: if you want to install the deb you need the one in ppa:tvansteenburgh/ppa
[17:05] <tvansteenburgh> aisrael: same for python-jujuclient
[17:05] <aisrael> tvansteenburgh: ok, I think this is related to pip installing everything in ~/.local
[17:05] <tvansteenburgh> aisrael: you can also pip install both of those if you want, latest are on pypi too
[17:08] <petevg> Following this conversation w/ interest. I saw bundletester hang on an error just now ... the only version of juju-deployer I have is the one from pip, though (0.8.0).
[17:08] <aisrael> tvansteenburgh: thanks. Let me get this pip stuff straightened out, and I may grab you for a few minutes after standup if I'm still stuck.
[17:14] <aisrael> petevg: what version of juju?
[17:16] <petevg> aisrael: 2.0 beta8
[17:18] <petevg> aisrael: I installed it from the archive, because beta7 was the only thing in my apt cache. I'm also running on xenial. I think that the only major difference in our environments is that I did a hung and destroy session for stray Python packages yesterday.
[17:19] <petevg> whoops: "hung" -> "huge search and"
[17:19] <aisrael> I'm going to downgrade to beta7 and see if that makes any difference
[17:20] <petevg> Cool.
[17:36] <aisrael> So far, beta7 is working much better
[17:41] <petevg> Cool. Beta 7 has that issue where it occasionally gets upset when you destroy a model and immediately create another one. If I get frustrated with test hangs, I'll give it a try, though.
[18:02] <beisner> arosales, do you know - is the manual provider still a thing with juju2?   i'm not succeeding in finding usage/docs.
[18:02] <arosales> beisner: it is
[18:03] <beisner> aha https://jujucharms.com/docs/master/clouds-manual
[18:03] <arosales> beisner: also at https://jujucharms.com/docs/devel/clouds under "manual"
[18:04] <beisner> arosales, if i need to do both manual machines and containers, do i need to stand up the containers and bring those in the same way?
[18:05] <arosales> beisner: yes I believe so as you still need the resource
[18:05] <arosales> and manual won't set up a lxc container for you
[18:05] <beisner> right, makes sense.  thx arosales
[18:07] <icey> can interfaces on interfaces.juju.solutions point to other repositories besides github now?> I have a gitlab server where I've been storing stuff
[18:10] <cory_fu> petevg: Hey, have you started on / finished the restart action for Zookeeper yet?
[18:10] <cory_fu> I just finished a discussion with bcsaller about how we want to handle the actions that would be relevant
[18:11] <petevg> cory_fu: I finished, tested and pushed.
[18:11] <petevg> But I can refactor if we have something better :-)
[18:11] <petevg> (Just realized that I forgot to move the card to review -- just did that.)
[18:15] <cory_fu> petevg: Actually, looking at your action, nevermind.  Your action is fine the way it is, save for a couple of minor, unrelated comments I will add to the PR.
[18:15] <petevg> Cool.
[18:44] <bdx> icey: lol ..... trying to intrduce a dependency on your personal gitlab for all ? - Not that I doubt its functionality, availability, or capibility ... if people could just add arbitrary repos ... doesn't that seem like something that would decrease the stability of the framework as a whole?
[18:45] <icey> frankly, I think the iwhole interfaces.juju.solutions needs some way of specifying "This is still in dev!"
[18:45] <icey> I can't get our CI to test things that aren't there  :)
[18:45] <bdx> aaah
[18:45] <icey> also, I'm attributing these top myself, if you trust me to know what I'm doing, by all means, use it ;-)
[18:46] <bdx> like a stamp of approval, or "supported" - something to that affect?
[18:46] <icey> bdx:  long term, these things /should/ move under github.com/openstack but for now we haven't merged them in :L)
[18:46] <bdx> interfaces and layers?
[18:47] <icey> bdx: yeah, I'm working on replacing the current ceph* charms with layers
[18:47] <jhobbs> Is there a working juju daily ppa somewhere? https://launchpad.net/~juju/+archive/ubuntu/daily looks like it's out of date
[18:47] <icey> which means, 2 new layers fort ceph-mon (ceph-base and ceph-mon), as well as 4 new interfaces
[18:47] <jhobbs> I need to get a tip or close to tip juju and I was hoping there was a PPA I could use so I don't have to learn how to build it
[18:47] <icey> SO, I'm going to have these (not yert tested or peer reviewed) layers + interfaces going onto interfaces.juju.solutions
[18:48] <bdx> icey: I was looking over those ... super cool
[18:49] <bdx> I see, what is the protocol for testing layers and interfaces? Is there one?
[18:49] <icey> well
[18:49] <icey> the open stack team is using gerrit (with jenkins) to run tests
[18:54] <kwmonroe> anyone know the "callout" box syntax for charm readmes?  docs say "!!! Note: foo" should do it, but it doesn't when the readme is rendered in the store.
[21:25] <valeech> arosales: Thank you for the help! Got it figured out with the help from #maas
[21:25] <valeech> Any idea how to get juju 2.0 to deploy trusty on maas machines when doing an add-machine? Everything I have tried it deploys xenial even though mas has the default commission and deploy set to trusty.
[21:30] <ockra> Help. Trying to deploy juju within juju on a localhost (LXD) cloud.
[21:30] <ockra> Error: Failed to change ownership of: /var/lib/lxd/containers/juju-d8b754-0/rootfs
[21:39] <ockra> I used --keep-broken for juju bootstrap to read logs
[21:39] <ockra> Only two lines in there were "read uid map: type u nsid 0 hostid 100000 range 65536"
[21:40] <ockra> and read uid map: type g nsid 0 hostid 100000 range 65536
[21:41] <magicaltrout> SaMnCo: the chap from Mesosphere seems pretty interested, thanks for the intro
[21:42] <magicaltrout> be nice to work with them to smooth out the extraction of DC/OS into an archive I can upgrade easier
[21:53] <arosales> valeech: the maas guys rock :-) glad you got a setup working :-)
[22:11] <ockra> The error propagates from lxc/lxd "C.shiftowner(cbasepath, cpath, C.int(uid), C.int(gid))"
[22:32] <aisrael> tvansteenburgh: I may have a ci job hung up. I don't think this should be running for 4+ hours: http://juju-ci.vapour.ws/job/charm-bundle-test-lxc/4678/console
[22:45] <DenverParaFlyer> Hello all
[22:45] <DenverParaFlyer> Really having a hell of a time getting Kubernetes running on AWS using juju
[22:46] <DenverParaFlyer> anyone seen this? ubuntu@612c225cd992:~$ juju deploy local:trusty/kubernetes ERROR unknown schema for charm URL "local:trusty/kubernetes"
[22:46] <SaMnCo> magicaltrout: cool, let me know if we can help in any way...
[22:47] <DenverParaFlyer> ahh maybe just need to remove the local:
[22:48] <bdx> DenverParaFlyer: use relative paths e.g. `juju deploy ./../../wordpress`
[22:48] <bdx> DenverParaFlyer: if you're using 2.0 ... otherwise 1.x uses the 'local:'
[22:48] <bdx> prefix
[22:49] <DenverParaFlyer> thanks. I was following the instructions here: https://jujucharms.com/kubernetes/trusty
[22:52] <aisrael> DenverParaFlyer: replace local: with cs:
[22:52] <aisrael> juju deploy cs:trusty/kubernetes
[22:53] <aisrael> local: assumes you have a local copy of the charm. cs: will download one from the charm store
[22:59] <DenverParaFlyer> thanks @aisrael!
[23:00] <DenverParaFlyer> any idea now how I fix this? " hook failed: "etcd-relation-joined" for etcd:client"
[23:01] <DenverParaFlyer> shows up when I do a 'juju status'
[23:02] <DenverParaFlyer> already tried "juju deploy trusty/etcd juju deploy local:trusty/kubernetes juju add-relation kubernetes etcd" from the guide @  https://jujucharms.com/kubernetes/trusty
[23:06] <DenverParaFlyer> similar to this issue? https://github.com/juju-solutions/bundle-observable-kubernetes/issues/17