[07:58] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: rejected gnome-boxes [source] (lunar-proposed) [44.1-1ubuntu1]
[08:28] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted testng7 [amd64] (lunar-proposed) [7.5~us1-0ubuntu1]
[08:36] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: pacemaker (jammy-proposed/main) [2.1.2-1ubuntu3 => 2.1.2-1ubuntu3.1] (i386-whitelist, ubuntu-server)
[08:41] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: bluedevil (lunar-proposed/universe) [4:5.27.3-0ubuntu1 => 4:5.27.4-0ubuntu1] (kubuntu)
[08:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: breeze-grub (lunar-proposed/universe) [5.27.3-0ubuntu1 => 5.27.4-0ubuntu1] (kubuntu)
[08:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: breeze-plymouth (lunar-proposed/universe) [5.27.3-0ubuntu1 => 5.27.4-0ubuntu1] (kubuntu)
[08:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: drkonqi (lunar-proposed/universe) [5.27.3-0ubuntu1 => 5.27.4-0ubuntu1] (kubuntu)
[08:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: kactivitymanagerd (lunar-proposed/universe) [5.27.3-0ubuntu1 => 5.27.4-0ubuntu1] (kubuntu)
[08:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: kde-gtk-config (lunar-proposed/universe) [4:5.27.3-0ubuntu1 => 4:5.27.4-0ubuntu1] (kubuntu)
[08:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: kdeplasma-addons (lunar-proposed/universe) [4:5.27.3-0ubuntu1 => 4:5.27.4-0ubuntu1] (kubuntu)
[08:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: khotkeys (lunar-proposed/universe) [4:5.27.3-0ubuntu1 => 4:5.27.4-0ubuntu1] (kubuntu)
[08:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: kmenuedit (lunar-proposed/universe) [4:5.27.3-0ubuntu1 => 4:5.27.4-0ubuntu1] (kubuntu)
[08:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: kscreen (lunar-proposed/universe) [4:5.27.3-0ubuntu1 => 4:5.27.4-0ubuntu1] (kubuntu)
[08:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: ksshaskpass (lunar-proposed/universe) [4:5.27.3-0ubuntu1 => 4:5.27.4-0ubuntu1] (kubuntu)
[08:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: breeze-gtk (lunar-proposed/universe) [5.27.3-0ubuntu1 => 5.27.4-0ubuntu1] (kubuntu)
[08:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: flatpak-kcm (lunar-proposed/universe) [5.27.3-0ubuntu2 => 5.27.4-0ubuntu1] (no packageset)
[08:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: kdecoration (lunar-proposed/universe) [4:5.27.3-0ubuntu1 => 4:5.27.4-0ubuntu1] (kubuntu)
[08:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: kinfocenter (lunar-proposed/universe) [4:5.27.3-0ubuntu1 => 4:5.27.4-0ubuntu1] (kubuntu)
[08:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: kscreenlocker (lunar-proposed/universe) [5.27.3-0ubuntu1 => 5.27.4-0ubuntu1] (kubuntu)
[08:43] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: kwallet-pam (lunar-proposed/universe) [4:5.27.3-0ubuntu1 => 4:5.27.4-0ubuntu1] (kubuntu)
[08:43] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: breeze (lunar-proposed/universe) [4:5.27.3-0ubuntu1 => 4:5.27.4-0ubuntu1] (kubuntu)
[08:43] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: kgamma5 (lunar-proposed/universe) [4:5.27.3-0ubuntu1 => 4:5.27.4-0ubuntu1] (kubuntu)
[08:43] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: ksystemstats (lunar-proposed/universe) [5.27.3-0ubuntu1 => 5.27.4-0ubuntu1] (kubuntu)
[08:43] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: kde-cli-tools (lunar-proposed/universe) [4:5.27.3-0ubuntu1 => 4:5.27.4-0ubuntu1] (kubuntu)
[08:43] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: kwayland-integration (lunar-proposed/universe) [4:5.27.3-0ubuntu1 => 4:5.27.4-0ubuntu1] (kubuntu)
[08:43] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: kpipewire (lunar-proposed/universe) [5.27.3-0ubuntu1 => 5.27.4-0ubuntu1] (no packageset)
[08:43] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: kwin (lunar-proposed/universe) [4:5.27.3-0ubuntu1 => 4:5.27.4-0ubuntu1] (kubuntu)
[08:43] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: layer-shell-qt (lunar-proposed/universe) [5.27.3-0ubuntu1 => 5.27.4-0ubuntu1] (kubuntu)
[08:43] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: libksysguard (lunar-proposed/universe) [4:5.27.3-0ubuntu2 => 4:5.27.4-0ubuntu1] (kubuntu)
[08:43] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: oxygen-sounds (lunar-proposed/universe) [4:5.27.3-0ubuntu1 => 4:5.27.4-0ubuntu1] (no packageset)
[08:43] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: plasma-browser-integration (lunar-proposed/universe) [5.27.3-0ubuntu1 => 5.27.4-0ubuntu1] (kubuntu)
[08:43] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: plasma-discover (lunar-proposed/universe) [5.27.3-0ubuntu1 => 5.27.4-0ubuntu1] (kubuntu)
[08:43] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: plasma-firewall (lunar-proposed/universe) [5.27.3-0ubuntu1 => 5.27.4-0ubuntu1] (kubuntu)
[08:43] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: plasma-nano (lunar-proposed/universe) [5.27.3-0ubuntu1 => 5.27.4-0ubuntu1] (kubuntu)
[08:43] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: plasma-pa (lunar-proposed/universe) [4:5.27.3-0ubuntu1 => 4:5.27.4-0ubuntu1] (kubuntu)
[08:43] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: plasma-sdk (lunar-proposed/universe) [4:5.27.3-0ubuntu1 => 4:5.27.4-0ubuntu1] (kubuntu)
[08:43] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: kwrited (lunar-proposed/universe) [4:5.27.3-0ubuntu1 => 4:5.27.4-0ubuntu1] (kubuntu)
[08:43] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: milou (lunar-proposed/universe) [4:5.27.3-0ubuntu1 => 4:5.27.4-0ubuntu1] (kubuntu)
[08:43] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: plasma-desktop (lunar-proposed/universe) [4:5.27.3-0ubuntu1 => 4:5.27.4-0ubuntu1] (kubuntu)
[08:43] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: plasma-integration (lunar-proposed/universe) [5.27.3-0ubuntu1 => 5.27.4-0ubuntu1] (kubuntu)
[08:43] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: plasma-remotecontrollers (lunar-proposed/universe) [5.27.3-0ubuntu1 => 5.27.4-0ubuntu1] (no packageset)
[08:43] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: plasma-thunderbolt (lunar-proposed/universe) [5.27.3-0ubuntu1 => 5.27.4-0ubuntu1] (kubuntu)
[08:43] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: plasma-welcome (lunar-proposed/universe) [5.27.3-0ubuntu1 => <IP_ADDRESS>-0ubuntu1] (no packageset)
[08:43] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: plasma-workspace (lunar-proposed/universe) [4:5.27.3-0ubuntu1 => 4:<IP_ADDRESS>-0ubuntu1] (kubuntu)
[08:44] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: polkit-kde-agent-1 (lunar-proposed/universe) [4:5.27.3-0ubuntu1 => 4:<IP_ADDRESS>-0ubuntu1] (kubuntu)
[08:44] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: qqc2-breeze-style (lunar-proposed/universe) [5.27.3-0ubuntu1 => 5.27.4-0ubuntu1] (kubuntu)
[08:44] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: libkscreen (lunar-proposed/universe) [4:5.27.3-0ubuntu1 => 4:5.27.4-0ubuntu1] (kubuntu)
[08:44] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: plasma-disks (lunar-proposed/universe) [5.27.3-0ubuntu1 => 5.27.4-0ubuntu1] (kubuntu)
[08:44] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: plasma-systemmonitor (lunar-proposed/universe) [5.27.3-0ubuntu1 => 5.27.4-0ubuntu1] (kubuntu)
[08:44] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: plasma-workspace-wallpapers (lunar-proposed/universe) [4:5.27.3-0ubuntu1 => 4:<IP_ADDRESS>-0ubuntu1] (kubuntu)
[08:44] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: powerdevil (lunar-proposed/universe) [4:5.27.3-0ubuntu1 => 4:<IP_ADDRESS>-0ubuntu1] (kubuntu)
[08:44] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: systemsettings (lunar-proposed/universe) [4:5.27.3-0ubuntu1 => 4:<IP_ADDRESS>-0ubuntu1] (kubuntu)
[08:44] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: oxygen (lunar-proposed/universe) [4:5.27.3-0ubuntu1 => 4:5.27.4-0ubuntu1] (kubuntu)
[08:44] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: plasma-vault (lunar-proposed/universe) [5.27.3-0ubuntu1 => <IP_ADDRESS>-0ubuntu1] (kubuntu)
[08:44] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: sddm-kcm (lunar-proposed/universe) [4:5.27.3-0ubuntu1 => 4:<IP_ADDRESS>-0ubuntu1] (kubuntu)
[08:44] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: plasma-nm (lunar-proposed/universe) [4:5.27.3-0ubuntu1 => 4:5.27.4-0ubuntu1] (kubuntu)
[08:44] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: xdg-desktop-portal-kde (lunar-proposed/universe) [5.27.3-0ubuntu1 => <IP_ADDRESS>-0ubuntu1] (kubuntu)
[08:44] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: plymouth-kcm (lunar-proposed/universe) [5.27.3-0ubuntu1 => <IP_ADDRESS>-0ubuntu1] (kubuntu)
[08:44] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted flatpak-kcm [source] (lunar-proposed) [5.27.4-0ubuntu1]
[08:45] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted plasma-welcome [source] (lunar-proposed) [<IP_ADDRESS>-0ubuntu1]
[08:46] <RikMills> ubuntu-release: please accept all the above plasma packages. new bugfix release from KDE, AND the plasma version we will be shipping as final for lunar
[08:46] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted plasma-remotecontrollers [source] (lunar-proposed) [5.27.4-0ubuntu1]
[09:12] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted xorg-server [source] (jammy-proposed) [2:21.1.4-2ubuntu1.7~22.04.1]
[10:42] <ginggs> RikMills: looking
[11:34] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted ubuntu-advantage-tools [source] (lunar-proposed) [27.14.4]
[11:38] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted gnome-boxes [source] (lunar-proposed) [44.1-1ubuntu2]
[11:41] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted gdm3 [source] (lunar-proposed) [44.0-1ubuntu1]
[11:52] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: snapd (lunar-proposed/main) [2.59.1+23.04 => 2.59.1+23.04ubuntu1] (desktop-core, ubuntu-server)
[12:38] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted snapd [source] (lunar-proposed) [2.59.1+23.04ubuntu1]
[13:48] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: rejected ubuntu-advantage-tools [source] (bionic-proposed) [27.14.4~18.04.1]
[13:48] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: rejected ubuntu-advantage-tools [source] (jammy-proposed) [27.14.4~22.04.1]
[13:48] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: rejected ubuntu-advantage-tools [source] (focal-proposed) [27.14.4~20.04.1]
[13:48] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: rejected ubuntu-advantage-tools [source] (kinetic-proposed) [27.14.4~22.10.1]
[13:48] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: rejected ubuntu-advantage-tools [source] (xenial-proposed) [27.14.4~16.04.1]
[13:56] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: nautilus (lunar-proposed/main) [1:44.0-1ubuntu1 => 1:44.0-1ubuntu2] (ubuntu-desktop)
[14:04] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: shotwell (lunar-proposed/main) [0.30.17-1ubuntu1 => 0.30.18-0ubuntu1] (ubuntu-desktop)
[14:59] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: qemu (lunar-proposed/main) [1:7.2+dfsg-5ubuntu1 => 1:7.2+dfsg-5ubuntu2] (ubuntu-server, virt)
[15:30] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: ubuntu-advantage-tools (kinetic-proposed/main) [27.13.6~22.10.1 => 27.14.4~22.10] (core)
[15:31] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: ubuntu-advantage-tools (bionic-proposed/main) [27.13.6~18.04.1 => 27.14.4~18.04] (core)
[15:31] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: ubuntu-advantage-tools (jammy-proposed/main) [27.13.6~22.04.1 => 27.14.4~22.04] (core)
[15:31] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: ubuntu-advantage-tools (focal-proposed/main) [27.13.6~20.04.1 => 27.14.4~20.04] (core)
[15:31] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: ubuntu-advantage-tools (xenial-proposed/main) [27.13.6~16.04.1 => 27.14.4~16.04] (no packageset)
[16:46] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: ubiquity (lunar-proposed/main) [23.04.5 => 23.04.6] (ubuntu-desktop)
[16:46] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New source: nvme-stas (lunar-proposed/primary) [2.2.1-0ubuntu1]
[16:55] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted ubiquity [source] (lunar-proposed) [23.04.6]
[17:00] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: initramfs-tools (lunar-proposed/main) [0.142ubuntu1 => 0.142ubuntu2] (core, i386-whitelist)
[17:12] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted initramfs-tools [source] (lunar-proposed) [0.142ubuntu2]
[18:36] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: osinfo-db (lunar-proposed/universe) [0.20230308-1 => 0.20230308-1ubuntu1] (no packageset)
[18:37] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted osinfo-db [source] (lunar-proposed) [0.20230308-1ubuntu1]
[19:07] <dbungert> release team - would you expect dailies of jammy live-server to be running right now?  I'm not asking them to be turned on, only noticing that they aren't being built right now and checking if that's expected.
[19:33] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: osinfo-db (lunar-proposed/universe) [0.20230308-1ubuntu1 => 0.20230308-1ubuntu2] (no packageset)
[19:34] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted osinfo-db [source] (lunar-proposed) [0.20230308-1ubuntu2]
[19:41] <bdmurray> dbungert: probably
[19:45] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: livecd-rootfs (lunar-proposed/main) [2.819 => 2.820] (desktop-core, i386-whitelist)
[19:46] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted livecd-rootfs [source] (lunar-proposed) [2.820]
[21:29] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted ubuntu-advantage-tools [source] (kinetic-proposed) [27.14.4~22.10]
[21:32] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: runc (lunar-proposed/main) [1.1.4-0ubuntu2 => 1.1.4-0ubuntu3] (ubuntu-server)
[21:35] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted ubuntu-advantage-tools [source] (jammy-proposed) [27.14.4~22.04]
[21:39] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted ubuntu-advantage-tools [source] (focal-proposed) [27.14.4~20.04]
[21:45] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted ubuntu-advantage-tools [source] (bionic-proposed) [27.14.4~18.04]
[21:51] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted ubuntu-advantage-tools [source] (xenial-proposed) [27.14.4~16.04]
[22:25] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: krb5 (jammy-proposed/main) [1.19.2-2ubuntu0.1 => 1.19.2-2ubuntu0.2] (core, i386-whitelist)
[22:50] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: autopkgtest (jammy-proposed/main) [5.20ubuntu1 => 5.28ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>] (core)
[23:15] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: autopkgtest (focal-proposed/main) [5.11ubuntu1.1 => 5.28ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>] (core)
[23:46] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted nautilus [source] (lunar-proposed) [1:44.0-1ubuntu2]
[23:50] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted qemu [source] (lunar-proposed) [1:7.2+dfsg-5ubuntu2]
[23:54] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted runc [source] (lunar-proposed) [1.1.4-0ubuntu3]


[00:03] <Hundred> i'll probably try it out but won't use it because its not a long term release
[02:41] <methodize> would anyone know why my screen resolution (1680x1050)  is fine when i boot and install from the live cd, but after the install i remove the cd and boot up for the first time and the resolution isn't listed in preferences>monitor settings. the max is 1024x768
[03:08] <ianorlin> which version?
[03:10] <methodize> 13.04
[03:15] <methodize> I've tried adding it manually, would it have anything to do with me editing the grub loader from "quiet splash" to "nomodeset"?"
[06:57] <jarnos> When you setup sync in a new computer in Chromium browser and you have already done that for another computer, wouldn't you expect the same sync settings to be used by default with the other computer? I just accidentally uploaded my passwords to Google..
[11:25] <andreiiar> Hallo.
[11:27] <andreiiar> I can't decide on one thing. I have a 16GB flash I want lubuntu on it. I installed it normaly but whenver I went to a new computer I had problems with booting it up. I formated the usb dongle and tryed to install it with universal usb installer but I can only make 4GB persistence space
[11:27] <andreiiar> What is there to do?
[13:22] <healhter> Hey I just asked the question in ubuntu too. I have an Lubuntu 13.04 system running on a GIGABYTE T1028 with an swapped HDD. Everything works except that my #/' key and my greater/lesser key produce the same keycode
[19:46] <phillw> AndrewLee: my guess is that grub is not installed / poingtin to your usb device.
[19:46] <phillw> *pointing*
[19:58] <phillw> AndrewLee: sorry...
[19:58] <phillw> was meant for s.o. else
[20:47] <Noskcaj> Does blueman open at startup on lubuntu? If so, you might want to disable it, it uses 40mb of RAM just to be on standby
[20:49] <phillw> Noskcaj: only /usr/sbin/bluetoothd daemon is autostart
[20:52] <Noskcaj> ok. because whatever xubuntu has by default was using way too much RAM
[20:56] <ElixirVitae> Hello!
[20:56] <ElixirVitae> So, 12.04 is supported till this month.
[20:56] <ElixirVitae> Question is;
[20:56] <ElixirVitae> What if I netinstall ubuntu and add lubuntu meta-package
[20:59] <Noskcaj> ElixirVitae, The same stuff is suported either way. It might be worth updating to 13.04
[20:59] <ElixirVitae> Would it not be the same/close as having lubuntu?
[20:59] <ElixirVitae> I kinda want to stay with a LTS.
[21:00] <ElixirVitae> Till next LTS, which is in about 7 months.
[21:00] <ElixirVitae> By support, what do you mean?
[21:00] <ElixirVitae> Won't I be able to get new versions as they are introduced if I stay with precise?
[21:23] <phillw> ElixirVitae: 12.04 is an LTS, it does not go EoL next month, however 12.04 is not an lts for lubuntu. As such it receives security updates only.
[21:23] <phillw> and core applications!
[21:24] <ElixirVitae> The thing is, won't I get my newest firefox, whether I am on lubuntu or ubuntu+lubuntu-meta-packages?
[21:28] <phillw> ElixirVitae: you won't get firefox from the 12.04 repo for lubuntu IIRC.
[21:29] <ElixirVitae> But am I not requesting packages from ubuntu repos when I am on ubuntu, whether I request lubuntu-meta-packages or not?
[21:32] <phillw> firefox is not in the lubuntu meta? It's chromium.
[21:32] <phillw> ElixirVitae: head over to http://linuxg.net/how-to-install-firefox-20-in-ubuntu-13-04-ubuntu-12-10-ubuntu-12-04-linux-mint-14-and-linux-mint-13-by-ppa/ for how to grab the latest firefox.
[21:33] <ElixirVitae> phillw, I am getting "latest" firefox via ubuntu repos already.
[21:33] <ElixirVitae> I am wondering whether it would change if I were to turn my OS into lubuntu one, even if on the outside.
[21:34] <ElixirVitae> And, for that matter, I'd like to not resort to PPAs, and stick with official ones.
[21:35] <phillw> ElixirVitae: If you run the 13.10 lubuntu, you will get firefox.
[21:35] <Unit193> Firefox is in the repos, you can install it in raring very easily...
[21:35] <ElixirVitae> I don't want to run 13.10. I want to continue running 12.04 ubuntu.
[21:36] <Unit193> Just know that it's not an officially supported LTS in terms of Lubuntu, so any security issues in LXDE or Lubuntu applications won't be fixed, nor will any updates come for those components.
[21:37] <phillw> ElixirVitae: I don't think that adding lubuntu meta will alter your repos that ubuntu has (i.e. all your ubuntu packages will still be there).
[21:38] <ElixirVitae> Unit193, does "lubuntu applications" come from ubuntu repos or not?
[21:38] <ElixirVitae> If so, are they not patched beyond security updates?
[21:39] <Unit193> ElixirVitae: Of course, it has to for being official.  They wouldn't be since it's not an LTS or officially supported anymore.  Firefox isn't Lubuntu, chromium also isn't maintained by lubuntu but is included.  LX* applications, LSC, and others are though.
[21:40] <ElixirVitae> Hmm, this clears up the issue a bit.
[21:40] <ElixirVitae> Thanks, phillw, Unit193.
[21:41] <ElixirVitae> Have a tea: http://i.imgur.com/1yyiL.gif
[21:41] <Unit193> 14.04 will be the first planned LTS.


[06:07]  * IlyaHaykinson hates the wifi kernel module on this machine; keeps crashing
[07:43]  * humphreybc-cell is at uds and is very busy!
[07:47] <godbyk> Hey, humphreybc-cell. I just woke up for UDS.
[08:05] <nisshh> ubuntujenkins: i just saw your email to the mailing list
[08:05] <nisshh> ubuntujenkins: does that ppa mean that we no longer have to install tex-live from a script?
[08:06] <godbyk> nisshh: If it all works well, yes, that's what it means.
[08:06] <godbyk> We're just testing it now, so there are no guarantees.
[08:07] <nisshh> godbyk: ok, thats good, was getting annoying having to install from a script and tweak the install
[08:07] <godbyk> nisshh: I know. We're always trying to make it easier for people to contribute. :)
[08:08] <nisshh> yea
[08:10] <nisshh> godbyk: can you have a look through my bzr script and see what you think?
[08:10] <godbyk> nisshh: sure.
[08:13] <nisshh> ok, gimme 1 minute and ill bastebin it
[08:13] <nisshh> pastebin*
[08:13] <godbyk> sure
[08:13] <godbyk> I'm listening to UDS stuff at the moment, so no rush.
[08:13] <godbyk> (just intro stuff so far)
[08:13] <nisshh> ah right, how are you doing that?
[08:13] <godbyk> streaming audio: http://icecast.ubuntu.com:8000/bois_dentelle.ogg.m3u (of the intro talk)
[08:14] <nisshh> ah cool im gonna listen in too maybe
[08:15] <nisshh> godbyk: http://pastebin.com/f92egWjR
[08:15] <godbyk> you can also join #ubuntu-uds and the channel for whatever session you want to attend: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-M/RemoteParticipation
[08:15] <nisshh> im not sure that its complete yet but i think its not far off
[08:17] <godbyk> the apt-get install bzr line should be inside the if-not-installed part, probably.
[08:17] <nisshh> ok
[08:17] <godbyk> and instead of checking for ~/.bzr, you could use 'which bzr' and check the return code.  (see 'man which' for a list of exit codes)
[08:17] <nisshh> i didnt know if that would work or not
[08:18] <godbyk> why not?
[08:18] <nisshh> yea, i suppose ~/.bzr is not a good way to go since it could be there for numerous other reasons too and bzr might not be installed
[08:18] <nisshh> godbyk: im lame at bash scripting still...
[08:19] <godbyk> well, my thinking is that ~/.bzr may not exist for a new user on a system if bzr has already been installed.
[08:19] <godbyk> no worries. learning is half the fun.
[08:19] <nisshh> yea
[08:23] <nisshh> godbyk: with an if statement is it possible to do something like:
[08:26] <nisshh> if which bzr == exit code 0 then echo "bzr is installed"
[08:26] <nisshh> is that possible?
[08:27] <godbyk> yeah,
[08:27] <godbyk> if you open up the install-pkgs.sh script, I can show you code that does that.
[08:27] <nisshh> ok hang on
[08:27] <godbyk> if you look at (or around) line 88, you'll see a function named check_exec_file().
[08:28] <nisshh> i see
[08:30] <godbyk> there's some log file stuff in there that you probably don't need/want.
[08:30] <godbyk> but the code with EXIT_STATUS=$? and the if..else..fi block afterwards will help you
[08:31] <nisshh> yea, whats the difference between cecho and echo?
[08:31] <godbyk> cecho is a function that uses color for error messages, etc.
[08:32] <nisshh> ok
[08:34] <nisshh> what does the "return 1" and "return 0" do?
[08:35] <godbyk> that's the return code for the check_exec_file() function.
[08:35] <godbyk> you won't need that.
[08:36] <nisshh> right
[08:41] <godbyk> did that work okay for you?
[08:42] <nisshh> so far yep
[08:43] <nisshh> doing some more tweaking then ill test it fully
[08:44] <nisshh> oookkkkkk, it doesnt check for bzr correctly
[08:46] <godbyk> nisshh: I can take a look if you want to pastebin it again.
[08:48] <nisshh> hmmm, ok one sec though
[08:48] <nisshh> i bet you iv made some noob mistake and left like one bit out
[08:49] <nisshh> here: http://pastebin.com/MaQ6kXL1
[08:51] <godbyk> before the EXIT_STATUS=$? line, you need to actually call which.
[08:51] <godbyk> add this line: which bzr >/dev/null 2>&1
[08:51] <nisshh> hehe, thought i was missing something
[08:52] <nisshh> add that line before the if statement?
[08:52] <nisshh> or in the if statement
[08:53] <godbyk> add that line before the EXIT_STATUS=$? line.
[08:57] <nisshh> not working still, and i found out that the ssh if statement isnt working either
[08:59] <nisshh> brb
[08:59] <godbyk> nisshh: paste your script here: pad.ubuntu-uk.org/UMPbzr  and we can work on it together.
[09:02] <nisshh> ok its in there
[09:03] <godbyk> I've edited the script.
[09:03] <godbyk> the bzr check should work now.
[09:03] <nisshh> ok
[09:03] <nisshh> yep, works now
[09:04] <nisshh> ssh key check still doesnt
[09:05] <godbyk> remove the . in the filename
[09:05] <godbyk> fixed in pad
[09:07] <nisshh> excellent, works nicely now
[09:09] <godbyk> cool
[09:09] <nisshh> the whole script works now
[09:09] <godbyk> great!
[09:09] <nisshh> yea, can you think of anything else i might need to add?
[09:10] <godbyk> walk them through creating the ssh key if it doesn't exist?
[09:11] <godbyk> maybe check to see if 'bzr whoami' has already been set before asking them for the info again?
[09:11] <godbyk> same with launchpad-login
[09:11] <nisshh> right, so try and automate as much of it as possible
[09:11] <godbyk> yep
[09:12] <nisshh> ok, ill get on with that after iv done my chores ;)
[09:13] <godbyk> k
[09:31] <godbyk> Mark just gave a shout-out to the Ubuntu Manual project.
[09:32] <popey> :)
[09:32] <nisshh> yaya!
[09:44] <nisshh> humphreybc-cell: hey, having fun?
[09:54] <nisshh> godbyk: how would i check if bzr launchpad-login has already been set?
[09:54] <godbyk> nisshh: if you just run 'bzr launchpad-login' it'll give the username if it's set, I think.
[09:55] <nisshh> yea it does, but what if this is the first time the user has run bzr launchpad-login?
[09:56] <nisshh> should i just assume that if the user had to install bzr then they havent run it before?
[09:57] <godbyk> that's probably a safe bet.
[09:57] <godbyk> but bzr spits out a different message if it's not set.
[09:57] <nisshh> yea
[09:57] <godbyk> I don't know what that msg is 'cause I've already set it, though. :)
[09:57] <nisshh> same
[09:58] <godbyk> gah! too many sessions running simultaneously.
[09:58] <godbyk> hard to keep track of everything.
[09:58] <godbyk> (UDS)
[09:58] <nisshh> hehe
[10:11] <nisshh> godbyk: where can i put my bzr script, i think its pretty much ready now
[10:11] <godbyk> nisshh: for now just email it to me.
[10:11] <godbyk> we're going to create a new repository for our tools and scripts.
[10:11] <nisshh> right
[10:11] <godbyk><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[10:14] <nisshh> done
[10:14] <godbyk> thanks.
[10:14] <c7p> hello
[10:14] <godbyk> I'm listening to some UDS sessions now, but I've received your email.
[10:15] <nisshh> c7p: hey dude
[10:21] <nisshh> anyone who gives a damn: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/05/ubuntu-developer-summit-maverick.html
[10:30] <godbyk> nisshh: I think you forgot to attach the script to the email.
[10:34] <nisshh> godbyk: oops hang on i keep doing that with freakin hotmail
[10:36] <nisshh> ok, should be attached this time
[10:36] <godbyk> it is now. thanks!
[10:39] <nisshh> hehe, np!
[11:07]  * ubuntujenkins can't listen to uds, I rebooted and now my sound card and my usb headphones are not wroking
[11:07] <godbyk> ah, that stinks.
[11:08] <ubuntujenkins> I have no clue what i did
[11:33]  * ubuntujenkins aaaarrrrgggg this is anoying
[11:35] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: check the volume levels and settings in the pavucontrol app?
[11:36] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk: I have no hardware except a dummy. I think its alsa
[11:36] <godbyk> ah.
[11:36] <godbyk> cat /proc/asound/cards
[11:37] <c7p> hey godbyk I've corrected the problem on launchpad and greek translation is again 100% completed. When can, upload the pot file on the branch and see if the compilation runs smoothly
[11:37] <ubuntujenkins> no such file or directory
[11:37] <godbyk> c7p: thanks, I'll give it a shot after a bit.
[11:37] <godbyk> (currently listening to UDS sessions.)
[11:37] <c7p> godbyk: ok :)
[11:37] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: really? wow.. is the alsa kernel modules loaded?  run 'dmesg' and check for errors related to sound/alsa.
[11:38] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: lsmod | grep asound
[11:38] <aquarius> hey, manual guys :)
[11:38] <c7p> hello aquarius
[11:39] <aquarius> someone in the desktop roundtable session at UDS mentioned a session later in the week about an app developer book?
[11:39] <nisshh> aquarius: hey
[11:39] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk: lsmod | grep asound gives nothing i am reading the dmesg output
[11:39] <aquarius> I'm just about to register a session that rickspencer and I were talking about, around the idea of a manual for opportunistic developers on Ubuntu
[11:40] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: so the asoundcore module hasn't been loaded.  you can try running 'sudo modprobe asoundcore' and then check the dmesg output.
[11:40] <aquarius> but I don't want to do that if there already is one :)
[11:40] <godbyk> aquarius: cool.  there's not one yet.
[11:40] <aquarius> godbyk, sweet. I'll register one.
[11:40] <godbyk> we had discussed creating one, but I don't think it's on our to do list for now.
[11:40] <godbyk> (we have our hands full with our current plans)
[11:40] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk: FATAL: Module asoundcore not found.
[11:40] <godbyk> we're happy to help out, though. if you want to use our tool chain, etc.
[11:41] <aquarius> that sounds useful!
[11:41] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: well, that's quite odd. :-/
[11:41] <ubuntujenkins> I would like to help if i haev time after doing qucikshot aquarius
[11:42] <ubuntujenkins> the only thing i did was boot into windows as i had to do some group stuff on there
[11:44] <aquarius> ubuntujenkins, cool! Are you at UDS, or participating remotely?
[11:44] <godbyk> I'm remotely participating at UDS.
[11:44] <godbyk> aquarius: if you do schedule a session, let me know when it is and I'll try to listen in.
[11:49]  * ubuntujenkins is off to lectures if anyone has any ideas please let me know
[12:07] <wyh> hi there. The Chinese version website still have a few strings in English. can someone check out why? It's been totally translated
[12:14] <nisshh> godbyk: ^^^
[12:14] <godbyk> wyh: It may be that the translations haven't been downloaded from launchpad and put into bzr yet.
[12:14] <godbyk> It's a manual process -- someone has to go through the motions to carry the translations from launchpad to bzr.
[12:19] <wyh> godbyk: maybe. the translation entry on launchpad keeps changing... sometime two branches, sometimes one. what's happening?
[12:19] <godbyk> daker (our web developer) has been working to get the website translations sorted out.
[12:20] <godbyk> here's the backstory:
[12:20] <godbyk> originally, the website was in the same repository as the manual itself.
[12:20] <godbyk> then we split the site into its own repository.
[12:20] <godbyk> so at that point, there existed a translation file under the ubuntu-manual project and another under the ubuntu-manual-website project.
[12:21] <godbyk> we manually synchronized those two translations so that translators could keep working under the ubuntu-manual project umbrella as they hadn't noticed the ubuntu-manual-website project had been started.
[12:21] <godbyk> we recently closed the site translation that was under the ubuntu-manual project.
[12:21] <godbyk> now, for the ubuntu-manual-website project, there were two directories: main and test.
[12:21] <godbyk> the main site was the countdown page at ubuntu-manual.org
[12:22] <godbyk> the test site was what we were developing behind the scenes.
[12:22] <godbyk> when we released the manual at the end of April, we closed the main site (the countdown timer) and switched the site over to (what was) the test site.
[12:22] <godbyk> since there were two sites under the project, they each had their own translations.
[12:23] <godbyk> now we've closed the main site, since we're using the test site.
[12:23] <godbyk> so the main site translation was closed recently and we're left with just the test site translation.
[12:24] <godbyk> and if your brain doesn't hurt already, in a few months we will be creating a brand new site that will have its own translation. :)
[12:24] <godbyk> but we'll worry about that further down the road.
[12:26] <wyh> ah ha, it's a little complicated, really
[12:28] <godbyk> A little bit, yeah.
[12:28] <godbyk> I *think* it's all sorted now, though.
[12:30] <wyh> godbyk: but some strings are not in Chinese, while they are translated on launchpad...
[12:30] <wyh> they are too long paragraph mainly
[12:31] <wyh> one on "about" page, one on "download-not-ready" page
[12:31] <godbyk> There are basically two possible reasons:
[12:32] <godbyk> 1. We haven't downloaded the translations from Launchpad since the strings were translated (so the website doesn't know that the strings have been translated); and
[12:32] <godbyk> 2. We've changed the text on the website but haven't uploaded the new text to Launchpad for translation yet.
[12:32] <godbyk> Both of those steps require manual work on the part of our web developer (the uploading and downloading to/from Launchpad).
[12:33] <godbyk> They don't happen automatically.
[12:35] <wyh> godbyk: well, as long as the book translation is not finished, you have time to adjust the website : )
[13:47]  * ubuntujenkins has fixed the sound, reinstalling some packages appears to of worked.
[13:48] <ubuntujenkins> have now i have meetings and lectures os have no time for uds :(
[13:48] <ubuntujenkins> see you all later
[17:27] <ubuntujenkins> hello all
[17:28] <daker> hello ubuntujenkins
[17:28] <ubuntujenkins> hey daker
[17:28] <daker> hello @all
[17:28] <daker> godbyk, ping
[17:29] <godbyk> daker: pong
[17:29] <godbyk> daker: Can you update the website translations?
[17:29] <godbyk> Someone was in here earlier and mentioned that some of the translated strings in launchpad don't show up as translated on the site yet.
[17:29] <daker> oki i'll do it
[17:31] <godbyk> thanks
[17:31] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk: is uds over for today?
[17:31] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: yeah
[17:32] <ubuntujenkins> now that i have fixed sound and have time its over :( . Did i miss much?
[17:32] <godbyk> :)
[17:32] <godbyk> hmm.. well, Mark gave a little shout-out to our project during his keynote.
[17:32] <ubuntujenkins> oo nice i wonder if there is a video
[17:32] <godbyk> The guys who work on Quickly and related projects had a session on writing a book akin to our manual.
[17:33] <ubuntujenkins> yep i saw aqu when he was in the channel
[17:34] <daker> godbyk, is therer any possibility to import translations from the ubuntu manual launchpadp page to here https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-website
[17:36] <daker> https://help.launchpad.net/Translations/YourProject/ImportingTranslations
[17:36] <godbyk> daker: If translations were done under the ubuntu-manual project, they should appear as suggestions in the ubuntu-manual-website project.  The translators would just have to choose that selection and submit it.
[17:37] <daker> that's the problem
[17:37] <daker> i don't want to do that
[17:40] <godbyk> I don't know of a better way. Sorry.
[17:41] <daker> i will download the tarball of the translations from https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/lucid-e1/+templates and import it
[17:43] <godbyk> daker: Be careful.  We don't want to further anger the translators. ;-)
[17:43] <c7p> godbyk: what about them?
[17:44] <daker> i'll follow the wiki https://help.launchpad.net/Translations/YourProject/ImportingTranslations
[17:45] <godbyk> c7p: Daker was just looking at importing some of the ubuntu-manual translations into the ubuntu-manual-website side of things.
[17:45] <c7p> godbyk: ah ok, ty for the info :)
[17:47] <daker> Example directory layout for translation files
[17:47] <daker> Each template (.pot) file must be in its own directory. For example:
[17:47] <daker> template1/template1.pot
[17:47] <daker> template1/de.po
[17:47] <daker> template1/fr.po
[17:47] <daker> template2/template2.pot
[17:47] <daker> template2/de.po
[17:47] <daker> template2/fr.po
[17:48] <daker> You should follow Launchpad translation import guidelines to ensure your translation files are imported successfully.
[17:48] <daker> .mo-style layouts
[17:48] <daker> Launchpad will not import your files if they use a .mo-style directory layout, such as:
[17:48] <daker> NOT SUPPORTED: template1/LC_MESSAGES/de/template1.po
[17:48] <daker> i should put the po files in one folder
[17:48] <godbyk> Ah.. so you can't import your website's .mo files?
[17:48] <daker> no
[17:49] <daker> i should donwload all the po files then pput them in one folder
[17:49] <daker> and lp will import them
[18:19] <dutchie> o/
[18:19] <dutchie> monumentally tired
[18:19] <godbyk> me, too.
[18:19] <godbyk> And all I've done is sit in this chair listening to UDS sessions. :-/
[18:19] <dutchie> i've done somewhat more than that
[18:20] <godbyk> dutchie: there's a UDS session about a Launchpad translations API.
[18:20] <godbyk> in case you wanted to sit in on it.
[18:20] <dutchie> cycle the 5 miles in to town for a 7 am rowing session, cycle up a big hill for sports day, run 400m and 4x400m, cycle back, another rowing session, cycle home
[18:20] <dutchie> :(
[18:21] <dutchie> godbyk: where/when?
[18:22] <godbyk> lemme look
[18:22] <godbyk> though they keep rescheduling everything on me.
[18:23] <godbyk> dutchie: it's currently schedule for tomorrow at noon (UTC+2) in the Ebene room.
[18:23] <godbyk> channel #ubuntu-uds-ebene
[18:23] <godbyk> audio stream: http://icecast.ubuntu.com:8000/ebene.ogg.m3u
[18:23] <dutchie> that is a pretty poor time for me
[18:23] <dutchie> but i will join the channel and log it
[18:24] <godbyk> they don't do much in the channels.
[18:24] <godbyk> but you can also record the audio stream with mplayer, if you want.
[18:24] <godbyk> I'll try to record it for ya.
[18:25] <godbyk> depending on what other sessions are running at the same time, I may just attend that session.
[18:25] <dutchie> thanks godbyk
[18:47] <godbyk> Fresh builds: http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/
[18:57] <zleap> hello
[18:57] <zleap> The english uk edition of Getting Started with Ubuntu 10.04 is not yet available.
[18:58] <godbyk> zleap: That's correct.
[18:58] <godbyk> It's being edited right now.
[18:58] <zleap> with regard to the above, as the manual is in LaTeX would producing a a4 version be a case of changing the preamble to a4 from US
[18:58] <xuacu> daker: ping
[18:58] <zleap> godbyk, i take it there are other spellings being changed too, rather than just paper size
[18:59] <godbyk> zleap: Yeah, it's a full-blown translation.  I haven't kept up with what all they're doing.
[18:59] <zleap> right
[19:00] <godbyk> For the translated versions, there will be three versions generated: (1) A4 paper, color links, for on-screen reading, (2) A4 paper, no links, for printing at home, (3) US letter paper, no links, for printing and binding via lulu.com.
[19:00] <zleap> so when 10.10 is released will there be a whole new manual or a new manual + supplimentary bits to add in to the 10.04 manual
[19:01] <godbyk> zleap: It will be an entirely new manual.
[19:01] <zleap> ah
[19:01] <zleap> cool
[19:01] <godbyk> I hope it'll be cool. :-)
[19:02] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk: have you got those pictures of the manual still up?
[19:02] <dutchie> my lulu copy shipped today :)
[19:02] <ubuntujenkins> has ben got his?
[19:03] <dutchie> i'm sure he'd have tweeted it
[19:03] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: those horrible, blurry photos? yeah.
[19:03] <godbyk> he hasn't received his yet
[19:03] <zleap> just asked this on the uk ubunty list, if I get any printing sponsored can we have the sponsor info on the printng somewhere
[19:03] <godbyk> they didn't ship in time. I don't know if they've shipped at all yet for him.
[19:03] <ubuntujenkins> zleap: I was about to write an answer to you
[19:03] <zleap> iok
[19:04] <ubuntujenkins> zleap: do you wan the uk version in print?
[19:04] <ubuntujenkins> *want
[19:04] <godbyk> zleap: I don't think it'd be an issue.
[19:04] <ubuntujenkins> message sent zleap
[19:04] <zleap> yes, when available,  its for the devon and cornwall Linux user group we are looking at printing some off for reference as i have suggested we givce people a copy of the manual (pdf) if we do installs
[19:05] <zleap> ubuntujenkins, thanks
[19:05] <godbyk> cool.
[19:05] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk: are we adding other langauages to lulu?
[19:05] <godbyk> You'll have to let us know how people like them and if there are parts of the manual that are difficult to follow.
[19:05] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: Yeah, we'll add them to lulu as they're released.
[19:06] <godbyk> No reason not to, really.
[19:06] <zleap> we installed ubuntu last month at a lug meet,  and gave a bit of support this weekend just gone so i copied the pdf over at the same time as follow up support
[19:06] <ubuntujenkins> zleap: Getting the uk english version form lulu will also be possible
[19:06] <ubuntujenkins> (when it is out)
[19:06] <zleap> ok,
[19:07] <zleap> i will look in to getting one,  as i guess from lulu it will be more professionally bound,  see if my local library in torbay will carry a few copies
[19:07] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: What'd it cost you?
[19:07] <godbyk> Also, if you order in bulk via lulu.com, the price drops.
[19:07] <ubuntujenkins> 5.17 with FREESHIP
[19:07] <ubuntujenkins> all in the e-mail :-)
[19:07] <dutchie> + VAT
[19:07] <quickshotdevs> Factoid 'VAT' not found
[19:08] <dutchie> stupid quickshotdevs
[19:08] <ubuntujenkins> dutchie: I am sure mine was only £5.17
[19:08] <dutchie> hmm
[19:08] <zleap> perhaps there could be a survey / feedback form on the manual site to get feedback / comments
[19:08] <ubuntujenkins> I need to change the +
[19:08] <dutchie> actually, might have been
[19:08]  * dutchie installs unity
[19:09] <ubuntujenkins> unity is just the windows seven bar on its side or at least thats how it looks
[19:09]  * dutchie will try it before deciding what it's like
[19:09] <xuacu> omg!!! daper is gone!
[19:09] <godbyk> daper?
[19:10] <xuacu> can someone contact him?
[19:10] <xuacu> yep
[19:10] <ubuntujenkins> daker
[19:10] <ubuntujenkins> is that who you mean?
[19:10] <xuacu> he's about to change LP website translations, right?
[19:10] <godbyk> He was looking into it. I don't know if he's done anything yet or not.
[19:11] <godbyk> What's the problem?
[19:11] <xuacu> I'd like he skip asturian (ast) translation
[19:11] <xuacu> because I've already done the import
[19:12] <xuacu> and fixed some typos
[19:13] <godbyk> xuacu: I'm not sure if he's done anything yet or not.  But you can email him at<EMAIL_ADDRESS>if you like.
[19:13] <xuacu> Thank you, i'll do it right now!
[19:14] <dutchie> hmm, it's more os x-y than anything else
[19:15] <dutchie> what with a dock of apps
[19:33] <dutchie> godbyk: did you ever sort the translations?
[19:35] <godbyk> nope
[19:35] <godbyk> I haven't heard anything from anyone.
[19:35] <godbyk> I told humphreybc about the issue and he was going to try to corner one of the launchpad devs at UDS
[19:36] <godbyk> but he may be too drunk to remember now. ;-)
[19:36] <dutchie> heh
[19:37] <dutchie> i think danilo "untypeable cyrillic name" segan is the guy to talk to about translations
[19:38] <godbyk> maybe send him an email?
[19:38] <godbyk> here's what I've been posting to #launchpad:  I've had some reports recently from our translators that a number of strings have been flagged as 'needs review'.  It seems this change happened overnight.  Do you know what's happened?  (See http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/05/08/%23ubuntu-manual.html#t10:14 and https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/msg01692.html for two such reports.)
[19:38] <godbyk> there are more emails on our list now and more logs in our chatroom if they want further anecdotes.
[20:09] <godbyk> I'm going to go read a book for a while. Then probably sleep.
[20:09] <godbyk> Ping me if you need anything. (I'll have my phone nearby.)
[20:10] <ubuntujenkins> night godbyk
[20:18]  * Red_HamsterX evaluates the costs associated with rebuilding the Qs server in Python.
[20:18] <Red_HamsterX> (WSGI, probably)
[20:18] <Red_HamsterX> (Mostly maintenance-wise)
[20:19] <Red_HamsterX> (It'd be a lot more fun, but the skillset for supporting it has to exist, and it's important that it be able to run in most environments)
[20:21]  * ubuntujenkins has just had to tell his dad where the minimize button is. face to plam
[20:21] <ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: your call, I haven't looked at the server stuff
[20:26] <Red_HamsterX> Facepalm for Canonical or facepalm for computing in general?
[20:26] <Red_HamsterX> Well, it's only kinda my call...
[20:26] <Red_HamsterX> PHP is universal and anyone can hack it.
[20:27] <Red_HamsterX> Python requires more of an investment in infrastructure and it requires a bit more diligence to produce working code.
[20:27] <ubuntujenkins> I know its kinda your call just pointing out that i had seen your comment :-)
[20:27] <Red_HamsterX> Ah.
[20:27] <Red_HamsterX> I assume things are read, most of the time. =P
[20:27]  * Red_HamsterX is a very assuming individual.
[20:37] <Red_HamsterX> godbyk-android, when you have time (or if you know offhand), could you let me know if your webhost has support for WSGI in any form? (mod_wsgi for Apache, CherryPy, the ability to just run a Python process locally, anything from http://www.wsgi.org/wsgi/Servers ...)
[20:37] <Red_HamsterX> (Not urgent)
[20:37] <ubuntujenkins> my dad is shocking at using a computer trying to tell him how to quit skype whilst on skype. I don't know how he got on there in the first place
[20:38] <Red_HamsterX> Sounds unpleasant. :(
[20:39] <Red_HamsterX> Though, if it's Lucid, I can see one way in which minimize might be really confusing.
[20:39] <Red_HamsterX> I put my window list at the tops of my screens.
[20:40] <Red_HamsterX> When I first saw the new buttons, I kept going for the '^' instead of the 'v' when I wanted to iconify things.
[20:40] <ubuntujenkins> it is lucid, i offred to move the window butons but my hole family said to leave it. I was very supprised
[20:40] <ubuntujenkins> *whole
[20:40] <Red_HamsterX> 'Cause the window list is above, not below.
[20:41] <dutchie> Red_HamsterX: interesting issue
[20:41] <Red_HamsterX> I should probably propose some sort of "two arrows moving towards the upper corners" image for the art team.
[21:16] <Red_HamsterX> Hi, Paul.
[21:17]  * Red_HamsterX says, late-ish.
[21:20]  * ubuntujenkins ubuntu manual factoid used in #ubuntu again \o/
[21:32]  * Red_HamsterX joins #ubuntu again.
[21:32] <Red_HamsterX> What was it?
[21:32] <ubuntujenkins> !manual | Red_HamsterX
[21:33] <ubuntujenkins> o manualbot is not here
[21:33] <dutchie> hmm
[21:33] <dutchie> oh, i know why
[21:34] <ubuntujenkins> !manual | Red_HamsterX
[21:34] <manualbot> Red_HamsterX: The Ubuntu Manual will help you become familiar with everyday tasks such as surfing the web, listening to music and scanning documents. With an emphasis on easy to follow instructions, it is suitable for all levels of experience. http://ubuntu-manual.org/
[21:34] <Red_HamsterX> Ah.
[21:35] <ubuntujenkins> it was sebsebseb 's idea
[22:13] <c7p> hello
[22:15] <c7p> godbyk are you there?
[22:15] <ubuntujenkins> hey c7p
[22:16] <ubuntujenkins> c7p: I think he has gone to bed
[22:17] <c7p> ubuntujenkins: yes i think so :).
[22:17] <ubuntujenkins> he is on uds time zones at the moment
[22:18] <c7p> uds = ubuntu developer summit ?
[22:18] <ubuntujenkins> yep
[22:19] <c7p> where it takes place? Belgium ?
[22:19] <ubuntujenkins> yes utc + 1 or 2 not sure
[22:20] <xuacu> utc+2
[22:20] <c7p> i'm utc +3
[22:21] <c7p> no significant variation
[22:22] <ubuntujenkins> ok kevin is on aproximate uds time :)
[22:30] <c7p> ubuntujenkins: can we recapture some screenshots ?
[22:30] <ubuntujenkins> c7p: sure which ones and for which langauge?
[22:31] <c7p> ubuntujenkins: let me see
[22:38] <c7p> ubuntujenkins: 02-appearance-preferences , 02-help-center , 02-quickshot-home, 05-software-center,
[22:38] <c7p> greek language (el)
[22:40] <ubuntujenkins> c7p: just doing it now
[22:41] <c7p> ubuntujenkins: ok ty :), brb (I'm logging in with the quickshot user )
[22:45] <c7p> hello again :)
[22:45] <ubuntujenkins> hello has i updated?
[22:47] <c7p> strange I have a problem running quickshot :/ I 'll update it to see if it work again
[22:47] <ubuntujenkins> ok i will brb
[22:48] <c7p> ok
[22:51] <ubuntujenkins> right how is it going?
[22:51] <c7p> su problems ...
[22:54] <c7p> :/ brb
[23:07] <c7p> I've got a problem with the software sources ... can you give me the link of the quickshots repo so i can download the deb archive and reinstall the programm ?
[23:07] <ubuntujenkins> +ppa
[23:07] <quickshotdevs> Already using Ubuntu 10.04? Add our PPA by running these commands in a terminal(Applications → Accessories → Terminal):  $ sudo add-apt-repository ppa:quickshotdevs/quickshot-release   $ sudo apt-get update   $ sudo apt-get install quickshot'
[23:07] <ubuntujenkins> nope not got it hang on
[23:07] <ubuntujenkins> c7p: https://edge.launchpad.net/~quickshotdevs/+archive/quickshot-release
[23:08]  * ubuntujenkins thought the bot may have it
[23:08] <c7p> ubuntujenkins: ty
[23:08] <ubuntujenkins> np
[23:11] <c7p> pfff same thing :(
[23:11] <ubuntujenkins> what happens?
[23:11] <c7p> i run the program then i press the next button of the first screen
[23:12] <c7p> the window disappears and that's it
[23:12] <ubuntujenkins> can you run "quickshot --debug" in a terminal please
[23:13] <ubuntujenkins> and pastebin the output
[23:13] <ubuntujenkins> this is strange nothing like this has happend yet
[23:14] <c7p> sure
[23:15] <c7p> ubuntujenkins: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/431361/
[23:16] <c7p> the cursor is still blinking
[23:16] <c7p> (on the terminal)
[23:16] <ubuntujenkins> are you nvidia?
[23:16] <c7p> yap :D
[23:17] <ubuntujenkins> what does "dkpg -l | grep disper" give?
[23:17] <c7p> nothing
[23:18] <c7p> (i typed dpkg)
[23:19] <ubuntujenkins> opps :) .thats your problem, you need to install something. I didn't get permisson to add it to our ppa and its only needed for nvidia. It is installed when you set up the account. I expect system janitor removed it let my find the link
[23:20] <c7p> actually i had no problem since i installed some drivers that drived me mad ....
[23:20] <ubuntujenkins> https://edge.launchpad.net/~wvengen/+archive/ppa get the package from here just download it then it should work
[23:25] <ubuntujenkins> c7p: does installing disper help?
[23:26] <ubuntujenkins> the way quickshot works is that it needs disper to handle nvidia cards. This is due to people possibly having twin view
[23:27] <c7p> yes it works , yeehaa
[23:28] <ubuntujenkins> night all
[23:30] <c7p> after the yehha .. the system logged me out
[23:30] <c7p> the good news is that i can capture the screenshots
[23:31] <xuacu> c7p: ubuntujenkins is gone now
[23:31] <c7p> xuacu: oh
[23:31] <c7p> thx for the info
[23:31] <xuacu> np
[23:33] <c7p> night all
[23:47] <xuacu> good night all


[11:15] <xnox> Laney:  so rebuilding iso using proposed livecd-rootfs + my ubiquity fixes to test all the oem things
[11:16] <Laney> w00t
[11:16] <Laney> new ubiquity on final freeze day
[11:16] <Laney> keeping traditions alive
[11:31] <xnox> if i can build the repo
[11:31]  * xnox really wants to fusefs mount unsplit archive mirror
[11:42] <xnox> Laney:  i really love booting to maybe-ubiquity by default. makes me feel so much better
[11:42] <Laney> xnox: I don't, I hate it, it plays that bloody sound every time :p
[11:43] <xnox> sound?
[11:43]  * xnox ponders if sound is broken on my machines
[11:43] <Laney> must be
[11:43] <xnox> oh
[11:43] <xnox> i have headphones plugged in
[11:43] <Laney> it plays the welcome jingle when maybe-ubiquity appears
[11:43] <xnox> and i don't have them on
[12:03] <xnox> argh
[12:04] <xnox> Laney:  i kind of need new desktop iso built with a working & signed pool =(
[12:05] <Laney> you mean your new livecd-rootfs?
[12:05] <xnox> yes
[12:05]  * xnox ponders
[12:05] <Laney> can't do much about that
[12:06] <xnox> cause it removes oem kernel from livecd-rootfs & i did push the seed change to add oem kernel to the pool; and my testing currently fails because my self-built .iso doesn't have pool (that /target trusts)
[12:06] <Laney> you could copy to a PPA and run the livefs build in there
[12:07]  * xnox really wants to switch to livefs images shipping "cat ship-live | xargs -L1 apt install --download-only" => with that apt change to not remove any cached packages.
[12:07] <xnox> Laney:  yes, and i have done that. I have a good livefs.
[12:07] <xnox> Laney:  i don't have a good /pool
[12:07] <xnox> oooh
[12:07] <xnox> let me check if todays daily has a good pool
[12:08] <Laney> thought you had a way to run the cdimage bits
[12:08] <xnox> but i can't sign it
[12:08] <xnox> let me check if today's pool is good; cause then i can slap my livefs onto that iso; ignore casper uuid check and boot that
[12:09] <xnox> yes todays manifest is good
[12:09]  * xnox goes to hack stuff
[12:18] <Laney> ah le signatures
[12:30] <xnox> and no the pool is bad
[12:30] <xnox> but hopefully things will work
[12:31] <xnox> (i.e. it _doesn't_ have linux-oem, because linux-oem was in the squashfs, and mine one doesn't have it)
[12:31] <xnox> so can't do offline test, but online should work
[13:01] <xnox> plain install is good
[13:01] <xnox> doing qemu-oem install
[16:17] <Laney> xnox: any word?
[16:18] <Laney> or did you want the new iso to test before being ready I guess
[16:18] <xnox> Laney:  so i see oem getting install and generic installed too, not sure why yet
[16:18] <Laney> mmm
[16:21] <Laney> livefs is doing its being-walked-across-london-one-bit-at-a-time thing
[16:30] <Laney> xnox: could you review https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-installer/ubiquity/+git/ubiquity/+merge/382411 when you get a minute too please?
[17:00] <Laney> I'm going now
[17:00] <Laney> but I'll come back if there's a ubiquity to review and upload
[17:00] <Laney> xnox: telegram me if you want that to happen, won't be far away obviously
[17:29] <xnox> Laney:  ubiquity last installed a new kernel version flavour when it was in 2.x series
[19:29] <Laney> /o\
[19:29] <Laney> looks like we got a desktop iso at least


[02:17] <lotuspsychje> good morning
[11:12] <jiggawatt> sarnold: why is ubuntu security team so slow in updates ?
[11:14] <lotuspsychje> jiggawatt: sarnold is afk at the moment
[11:15] <jiggawatt> makes sense
[11:15] <jiggawatt> his whole security team seems afk to be honest lol
[11:15] <lotuspsychje> jiggawatt: what is this about exactly?
[11:15] <jiggawatt> it's about integrity in software
[11:15] <jiggawatt> and dedication to security
[11:16] <lotuspsychje> elaborate please?
[11:16] <jiggawatt> meh
[11:17] <RikMills> jiggawatt: explain why you think that please
[11:17]  * jiggawatt doesn't really want to start a channel war...
[11:18] <RikMills> you have an issue clearly. explaining it is not a 'war'
[11:19] <RikMills> https://ubuntu.com/security/notices
[11:19] <RikMills> the team is clear not afk
[11:19] <RikMills> *clearly
[11:22] <RikMills> security fixes do require time to validate and check though. ubuntu is not some 'hobbyist' distro that can just shove things out 0day. a lot of big players/companies depend on the reliability of our updates
[11:25] <ubuntuboy> when is the next LTS release expected?
[11:26] <lotuspsychje> april 2022
[11:26] <ubuntuboy> and is it ok to go from non LTS release to LTS release?
[11:26] <ubuntuboy> i am 21.10
[11:26] <ubuntuboy> *on
[11:26] <RikMills> that upgrade path should work fine
[11:26] <lotuspsychje> the users choice also ubuntuboy, what you think is important for you
[12:14] <ubuntuboy> it depends on stability and consistency over new features and flashy stuff
[12:15] <ubuntuboy> what are your thoughts lotuspsychje ???
[12:16] <lotuspsychje> ubuntuboy: every user in the ubuntu community has their own purpose to use their fav ubuntu release/flavour
[12:17] <lotuspsychje> currently i run 20.04 on my business NUC, lubuntu 20.04 on an older netbook and 22.04 development branch early for help debugging
[12:17] <ubuntuboy> what are you on?
[12:17] <ubuntuboy> lotuspsychje, ???
[12:18] <ubuntuboy> i tired both manjaro and fedora both had issues with EFI but ubuntu installer zipped thru it
[12:21] <lotuspsychje> ubuntuboy: i think a sane query one should ask oneself is; wich machine will i be installing on, and what will be the machines purpose
[12:23] <ubuntuboy> ok
[12:23] <ubuntuboy> mine is normal day to day use and few games on steam?
[12:23] <lotuspsychje> what kind of hardware inside? laptop or desktop?
[12:24] <ubuntuboy> laptop
[12:25] <ubuntuboy> can i provide a dump?
[12:26] <lotuspsychje> ubuntuboy: pastebin inxi -F
[12:26] <amacater_> My thoughts - and I don't use steam. Stick to Ubuntu LTS - so 20.04 [and 22.04 when released] as these get extensive use and testing and you don't gain too much by the interim releases unless you want to try latest and greatest
[12:27] <amacater_> With Ubuntu you get an LTS update every two years guaranteed.
[12:28] <lotuspsychje> amacater_: depends on hardware too, we see a lot of users benefit latest releases with higher kernels on AMD hardware for example
[12:29] <ubuntuboy> why are font so jagged it was fine when i installed it
[12:31] <amacater_> There is always that - Ubuntu has HWE kernels too but in my experience that adds complexity especially if someone is inexperienced and doesn't know which kernels they are running.
[12:34] <jiggawatt> yeah use the non-LTS stuff if you have a newer laptop
[12:34] <ubuntuboy> sudo: pastebin: command not found
[12:34] <jiggawatt> pastebin.com
[12:35] <jiggawatt> lotuspsychje wants the output of `lnxi -F`
[12:35] <jiggawatt> `inxi -F` 'scuse me
[12:36] <ubuntuboy> https://pastebin.com/SEB2Mjqs
[12:38] <lotuspsychje> ubuntuboy: on that machine i would go LTS
[12:39] <lotuspsychje> nvidia graphics you should pick the nvidia driver instead of nouveau for gaming
[12:40] <jeremy31> My HP is a year older without Nvidia
[12:40] <ubuntuboy> thanks lotuspsychje
[12:40] <amacater_> ubuntuboy: Gaming laptop with two video chipsets. It's an interesting one: sometimes the machine decides to use the lower powered chipset, I think. This is a complicating factor - you might want to look at bumblebee? - which is the software to switch between them better.
[12:41] <lotuspsychje> amacater_: bumblebee is an outdated method, its nvidia-prime these days
[12:41] <amacater_> Removing nouveau to install nvidia drivers can also be complex. I've done this (on Debian) lots - I'll leave others to advise.
[12:42] <ubuntuboy> ok
[12:42] <ubuntuboy> then lets wait for LTS release
[12:43] <jeremy31> ubuntuboy: did you have to go into BIOS to the OS Boot menu to get it to use grub at boot after installing?
[12:46] <ubuntuboy> jeremy31, meaning? go to bios for what???
[12:47] <ubuntuboy> jeremy31, for BIOS, its UEFI mode as i dual boot with Win11 for kids
[12:48] <jiggawatt> jeremy31: Do you mean select boot priorities
[12:50] <ubuntuboy> grub is fine it picked up both Windows and Ubuntu and its fine and stable
[12:51] <ubuntuboy> will move to LTS when it comes out
[12:54] <lotuspsychje> ubuntuboy: are you on xorg or wayland?
[12:54] <ubuntuboy> wayland i think
[12:55] <ubuntuboy> wayland
[12:55] <lotuspsychje> prob not ideal with your nvidia card, not sure whats the current state these days, prob not all nvidia drivers will work properly
[12:57] <lotuspsychje> ubuntuboy: ubuntu-drivers list, will show you your drivers available, then compare xorg vs wayland performance after you installed a driver
[12:59] <ubuntuboy> ok
[13:00] <amacater_> ubuntuboy: 20.04 is LTS now. 22.04 when it gets here in April 2022 will be LTS
[13:00] <amacater_> But 20.04 will still be supported.
[13:01] <ubuntuboy> i will move off to the next LTS release
[13:43] <jeremy31> ubuntuboy: When I installed on my HP it booted straight into Windows and I had to change the OS Boot menu in the BIOS so it would use ubuntu UEFI rather than auto boot into the Windows boot loader
[13:45] <ubuntuboy> no i didn't had to do that, first i installed Windows, and then Ubuntu, and install saw a Window Boot manager and i asked to install along with it
[13:56] <amacater_> For anyone else in this position: it's almost worth reinstalling Windows to make sure that it's using UEFI: UEFI for one and MBR for the other really don't mix.
[14:05] <jeremy31> For some reason the UEFI implementation in my HP would not allow Ubuntu to make its bootloader the default one.  It worked fine on this Lenovo
[14:20] <ubuntuboy> ok
[14:20] <ubuntuboy> interesting
[14:27] <jeremy31> It will not allow me to make any changes with efibootmgr in terminal but it doesn't give an error either
[14:37] <ubuntuboy> ok
[14:37] <ubuntuboy> brb
[17:39] <UbuntuBoy> does any have the scope of next LTS release
[17:55] <lotuspsychje> !jammy | UbuntuBoy
[18:00] <UbuntuBoy> lotuspsychje, thabnks


[23:09] <Guest93> Hi team. I'm really interested in Multipass and have gotten some VMs running. Unfortunately, I'm using ARM and I find the documentation around static IP assignment to be extremely convoluted (have been spending hours here).
[23:09] <Guest93> Are there any suggestions on setting static IPs on VMs when using ARM? I've been trying cloud-init (seems like networking is ignored completely).


[20:10] <Pici> why are we +r?
[21:00] <Unit193> Pici: I believe it was set due to several recurring waves of spam bots.


[22:20] <profetek> Greetings, so whats the biggest challenge in getting bluetooth to work on Nexus 5 ?


 I thought computers could do all these things for me, but I guess they can't ;)
[14:22] <DammitJim> hey mhall119, have you guys done any more camping? I'm considering buying a camper
[14:28] <mhall119> DammitJim: not since the keys, we need to put more money into the camper before we go again
[14:29] <DammitJim> what do you need to do to it?
[14:31] <mhall119> need to buy new tires, get the A/C recharged and possibly fixed, fix a leak in the sink...I think there was more
[14:32] <DammitJim> it sounds like a lot of little things, but easily doable, right? is the summer a bad time for camping?
[14:32] <mhall119> not if you have a good AC
[14:33] <DammitJim> about how much are campsites with hookups?
[14:33] <mhall119> but, with a canvas-sided popup, even a good AC might not keep things cold in the middle of the day
[14:33] <mhall119> depends on the campground
[14:33] <DammitJim> but at night it's not bad, right?
[14:33] <mhall119> can be as low as $15/$20 a night at the cheapest
[14:33] <mhall119> the one we had in the keys, on the beach, was about $90/night
[14:34] <DammitJim> was it nice?
[14:34] <mhall119> some charge per-person over a base number
[14:34] <mhall119> the one in the keys? yeah
[14:34] <DammitJim> was that a per person?
[14:34] <mhall119> some campsites are dives, others are really nice, and the price rarely correlates to the quality
[14:35] <DammitJim> LOL
[14:35] <mhall119> no, it was per-site
[14:35] <DammitJim> were there a lot of mosquitoes?
[14:35] <mhall119> not there, no
[14:36] <DammitJim> really? I don't know why every time I go to the keys, I get eaten by mosquitoes... you went 3 months ago, right?
[14:36] <mhall119> there abouts, yeah
[14:36] <DammitJim> does it take long to set up?
[14:36] <DammitJim> that's the only thing that is making me doubt this popup thing
[14:36] <mhall119> we were right on the beach, so we had a good breeze blowing constantly, I don't think the mosquitoes could fly against it
[14:36] <DammitJim> Lori can only do so much with 5 kids while I set up
[14:36] <mhall119> the popup takes about 10 minutes to setup
[14:37] <DammitJim> noway
[14:37] <DammitJim> don't you have to like stabilize it and stuff?
[14:37] <mhall119> probably less once I get used to it
[14:37] <mhall119> there's stabalizing legs in the 4 corners, but they just swing down, those are easy
[14:37] <mhall119> the biggest thing is cranking it up and pulling the beds out
[14:38] <DammitJim> the cranking mechanism is one of those were you spin like 20 times and the thing goes up 1 inch?
[14:38] <mhall119> yeah
[14:38] <mhall119> there are other kinds, depending on the make and model
[14:39] <mhall119> some use electric motors and hydralics
[14:39] <DammitJim> man, I have to do so much to my van to be able to tow
[14:39] <mhall119> ours is a simple cable and wench
[14:39] <mhall119> luckily our truck was ready for towing, we just had to buy an adapter for the light harness
[14:40] <DammitJim> does it also control the braking system?
[14:48] <danstoner> popup campers have come a long way.
[14:50] <DammitJim> man, they are heavier than 10 years ago, though
[14:50] <DammitJim> danstoner, do you have one?
[14:52] <danstoner> No, my parents did when I was a kid.  That was *not* easy to set up.
[14:52] <danstoner> A few years ago they bought a newer one, it went up lickedy split.
[14:53] <DammitJim> lol
[14:53] <danstoner> with air conditioning and everything.
[14:54] <DammitJim> what does ac prep mean? I'm reading a review on a Jayco 1206
[14:55] <danstoner> Dang that's a big one.
[14:56] <DammitJim> it is?
[14:56] <danstoner> I do not know what "ac prep" means in this context.
[14:56] <DammitJim> I need a camper for 7
[14:57] <danstoner> DammitJim: maybe this?  http://gpsinformation.net/exe/rednec-motor-home.jpg
[14:58] <DammitJim> i love it
[15:05] <danstoner> This sleeps 8:  http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/classc/2005-Jayco-Greyhawk-19543.htm
[15:06] <DammitJim> oh, I'm trying to stick to something you haul :)
[15:07] <danstoner> Sleeps 2 + a series of tents.  The kids will not appreciate camping unless they are forced to sleep in a tent.
[15:08] <mhall119> DammitJim: my popup doesn't have electric breaks
[15:09] <mhall119> there's a piston attached to the tow hitch, when I brake the truck the momentum of the camper pushes against the cylinder, which redirects to the hydralic brakes on the camper
[15:10] <mhall119> I think that's pretty standard for light-weight campers
[15:11] <mhall119> DammitJim: mine is > 10 years old
[15:11] <mhall119> found it on craigslist
[15:31] <DammitJim> whoa
[15:31] <DammitJim> danstoner, I agree, but I have 11 month olds
[15:31] <DammitJim> that time will come ;)