[03:18] <mybalzitch> if I have gallery view enabled in files, have a file highlighted, and I try to scroll down with my mouse wheel, files acts like its scrolling down, but it's not.  Is this by design or a wayland bug
[03:19] <mybalzitch> oh now it stopped doing it
[03:37] <Your_Dog> hello, I just have a problem with usb gamepads, it doesn't work, or specifically, whenever I plug it in dinput mode, I don't see it listed in /dev/input
[03:37] <Your_Dog> however, usb-devices does show that the gamepad in question is there and recognized by the kernel
[03:39] <Your_Dog> it was working yesterday but I updated something and now it no longer works, been trying to pinpoint which update caused this but it doesnt make sense because the updates I applied yesterday where related to kwin
[04:24] <lagunaloire> does anyone have the great game review game AstLibraRevision working on the steam client for ubuntu
[04:24] <lagunaloire> supposedly it is a 2d sidescroller jrpg with aspects of final fantasy and castlevania combined
[04:25] <lagunaloire> but i haven't had time to check it on the steam client for ubuntu...has anyone else done that
[04:25] <lagunaloire> i hear there is a free demo version for people who don't want to pay for a game unless they think it is worth it
[04:26] <Guest39> test it
[04:26] <Guest39> UBuntu is generally welll supported
[04:26] <lagunaloire> Guest39 i can't...i am in windows 10 right now trying to install a 50 gig game demo called final fantasy xiv A Realm Reborn
[04:27] <lagunaloire> Guest39 it is going to take hours to download all that before i can boot into ubuntu to see about that game on my steam client
[04:32] <lagunaloire> does anyone else have the steam client for ubuntu working where they can check the free demo of AstLibra Revision to see if it works on ubuntu
[04:35] <lagunaloire> it has been a busy day today...i tried to put my old parallel port scanner on my xp box but i don't have a driver....and that anti-x partition sane-backend now doesn't seem to support parallel port scanners any longer...so it was a lot of wasted time tody
[04:36] <lagunaloire> and then i tried to put the great sounding game final fantasy : All the Bravest    on my android phone...and for some reason that doesn't work anymore either
[04:37] <lagunaloire> all these code changes over the years are making my win95/98 hardware almost obsolete
[04:38] <lagunaloire> and i have never seen such problems for trying to find an xp driver for an old scanner before
[04:39] <lagunaloire> not only that but sane-find-scanner doesn't work anymore with parallel port scanners
[04:39] <lagunaloire> any of them
[04:40] <lagunaloire> i can't believe all the bravest no longer works on android phones
[04:41] <lagunaloire> and now trying to get a free game demo working takes 50 gigabytes....it is getting crazy
[04:42] <lagunaloire> plus another 50 gigabytes for the fantastic but space-consuming game....genshin impact
[04:42] <lagunaloire> so that is 100gigs for just 2 games
[04:43] <Lvl4Sword> I'm noticing that the PHYS from .. udevadm monitor --udev --property .. for devices that have an .. ID_BUS=bluetooth .. is different than what is shown in .. Settings > Bluetooth .. Am I doing something wrong here?
[04:45] <lagunaloire> plus another 50 gigabytes just for the development package with unreal engine 5 for some future game developments...this is crazy and obsoleting my 40 gig hard drive
[04:47] <lagunaloire> and now i hear that it is costing more than 1 billion dollars to make just one movie called avatar 2....these graphics issues are really getting expensive
[04:51] <lagunaloire> i would have thought that the cheap stuff like avengers:infinity war and avengers:endgame would be enough graphics for the average person....but no James Cameron wants to spend a fortune making a 3d version of avatar2 with stereoscopic 3d tools
[04:52] <lagunaloire> and fancy complicated underwater cameras
[04:55] <lagunaloire> and to even get the effects properly you really need to forget digital displays and go see it in a theatre...but they have all disappeared in the United States...since everyone has decided to stream stuff instead of going to a cinema
[04:56] <lagunaloire> so he may be wasting all that money because nobody is left to go to a cinema theatre to see it in its splendor
[05:00] <lagunaloire> cinema theatres were popular in the 50's and 60's but have become extinct like the dodo birds after that
[05:01] <Unit193> lagunaloire: I think you might be lost.  This is the Ubuntu support channel.
[05:01] <lagunaloire> Unit193..yes i know...i am here to see if anyone has the game AstLibra Revision working on the ubuntu steam client
[05:02] <Unit193> OK, well you're kinda going off on...well not Ubuntu support. :P
[05:02] <lagunaloire> Unit193...well its a support question to see if it is working on ubuntu
[05:04] <Unit193> lagunaloire: I was referring to talk about theaters and such.  Wine's AppDB doesn't have it, https://steamdb.info/app/1718570/ doesn't refer to linux at all.
[05:04] <lagunaloire> Unit193 yes that is why i  asked if anyone has it working on ubuntu...because it might not be easy to do that
[05:05] <Unit193> I imagine it isn't, no.
[05:13] <lagunaloire> and i don't have a steam client on windows...only on ubuntu...because on windows...the epic client and the ubisoft client and the square-enix client takes up all my space
[05:19] <Lvl4Sword> I'm on Ubuntu 22.04, and this specific instance is for a pair of headphones. But I'm not sure if that helps.
[05:19] <currenthandle> Can anyone point to a good (the best) channel to get support with IRC / Libra relate question? thx.
[05:20] <Lvl4Sword> currenthandle, Probably #libera
[05:20] <currenthandle> Lvl4Sword thx!! i tried that but i had spelled it wrong :)
[05:21] <Lvl4Sword> currenthandle, You're welcome. It happens!
[05:21] <currenthandle> I'm trying to register a second nick to my account, new me lol. I followed this: https://libera.chat/guides/registration
[05:22] <currenthandle> I did:
[05:22] <currenthandle> slash + newNick
[05:22] <lagunaloire> currenthandle just type /msg NickServ REGISTER passwd
[05:22] <currenthandle> slash + msg NickServ GROUP
[05:23] <lagunaloire> currenthandle it should already know your nick so you just need to put your passwd
[05:23] <currenthandle> lagunaloire ok but how is that assocaiated to my email / account?
[05:24] <currenthandle> lagunaloire how does it know my nick? or how does it know the nick i currently am is associated with my email / libra ccount?
[05:25] <lagunaloire> currenthandle just put your email address to the right of your password , i thought you already knew that
[05:25] <lagunaloire> again /msg NickServ REGISTER yourpasswd email
[05:26] <lagunaloire> and use nano to make a note of your paswword with user name for the libera server
[05:27] <lagunaloire> in case you forget
[05:33] <lagunaloire> leptone and one last thing...use the /msg NickServ IDENTIFY command when it asks for your password you have registered wiht
[05:34] <lagunaloire> you only need it for a few top channels that require registration ..but most low-level channels don't need it
[05:42] <lagunaloire> currenthandle why do you like to keep changing your nick in here...most people pick one nick they are fond of
[05:43] <currenthandle> lagunaloire sry for the spam. I'm trying to figure out how to change my nick registered with nickserv (once and for all)
[05:43] <lagunaloire> currenthandle no it is not spam...just a little confusing...but go ahead...just learn to use the /msg NickServ commands to do your stuff
[05:44] <lagunaloire> currenthandle...spam is when i get a lot of email advertisements for things i am not looking for
[05:46] <flylord> good evenening
[05:47] <lagunaloire> nearly everyone knows exactly what they need...and no one likes spam that advertises all kinds of crap...and pretends the recipient isn't smart enough to know what they want
[05:49] <lagunaloire> i think they should beat the heads of marketing and advertising people to a pulp so they won't be bothering anyone else's heads
[05:50] <lagunaloire> now in Saudi Arabia they have been chopping people's heads off like crazy for all kinds of stuff...lets see what they do to those marketing and advertising scumbags
[05:54] <lagunaloire> if anybody wants or needs something they all know how to ask for it...they don't need advertising scum
[05:58] <lagunaloire> advertising scum and harassing debt collectors are the bane of society...the bottom dwellers...and the world would be better off without them
[06:00] <Lvl4Sword> Reasking my question:  I'm noticing that the PHYS from .. udevadm monitor --udev --property .. for devices that have an .. ID_BUS=bluetooth .. is different than what is shown in .. Settings > Bluetooth .. Am I doing something wrong here? I'm on Ubuntu 22.04, and this specific instance is for a pair of headphones. But I'm not sure if that helps.
[06:01] <lagunaloire> Lv14Sword i have no idea at all...i don't use that blutooth garbage and have not for many years...connectors are much easier and faster
[06:01] <Lvl4Sword> lagunaloire, Harder to do so for a pair of wireless headphones ;-)
[06:02] <lagunaloire> Lv14Sword don't buy that kind of blutooth crap to begin with
[06:03] <lagunaloire> even usb3 ports are faster than any of that
[06:05] <lagunaloire> Lv14Sword...blutooth just tried to ride on the coattails of wifi to try to make a useless market for nothing
[06:05] <lagunaloire> Lv14Sword and even wifi isn't used that much
[06:06] <Lvl4Sword> Well, seeing as I'm using wireless headphones on a laptop. That's probably not the case.
[06:06] <lagunaloire> Lv14Sword i still connect the xbox360 to a router with an ethernet cable
[06:06] <lagunaloire> Lv14Sword even wifi is not used very much
[06:07] <lagunaloire> Lv14Sword and nobody needs to support a freerider on wifi's back like blutooth
[06:07] <Lvl4Sword> I'm just trying to figure out my issue.
[06:08] <lagunaloire> freeriders, debt collectors, and advertisers are the bane of society
[06:08] <ravage> lagunaloire: if you want to discuss bluetooth feel free to discuss it in #ubuntu-offtopic . This is channel if for support questions
[06:09] <ravage> Lvl4Sword: so you want to report a display bug or what is your actual problem you want to solve?
[06:09] <lagunaloire> ravage no i don't even want to bother talking about blutooth...it is not even worth mentioning
[06:09] <ravage> lagunaloire: then please dont
[06:10] <Lvl4Sword> ravage, So.. running .. udevadm monitor --udev --property .. and then connecting a pair of headphones, gives a different MAC address under "PHYS"
[06:10] <Lvl4Sword> Which is strange, since the actual MAC shows up under Settings > Bluetooth, and clicking on the device
[06:11] <ravage> ok. and you cant connect your headphones via the GUI?
[06:11] <Lvl4Sword> I can connect just fine. I'm just designing something that uses udevadm and I was hoping I could pull the MAC from there.
[06:12] <Lvl4Sword> Though unfortunately that doesn't seem to be the case, and I'd like to know why. Is there a privacy setting or something here that needs enabled?
[06:18] <Lvl4Sword> udevadm info --attribute-walk --path .. on the device gives the wrong ATTRS{phys} as well
[06:19] <lagunaloire> Lv14Sword welcome to linux and the never ending need for future versions of all kinds of stuff
[06:21] <ravage> Lvl4Sword: maybe https://novelbits.io/bluetooth-address-privacy-ble/
[06:22] <lagunaloire> Lv14Sword it is what keeps the distros in business every year
[06:22] <ravage> !ot | Lvl4Sword
[06:22] <Lvl4Sword> ravage, ?
[06:23] <ravage> Lvl4Sword: and its the same here. looks like a virtual mac. i just never cared
[06:25] <ravage> Lvl4Sword: not you sorry
[06:25] <Lvl4Sword> ravage, I figure that ot was meant for someone else. Seems like trusting the device doesn't do anything
[06:25] <Lvl4Sword> No problem :-)
[06:26] <ravage> "journalctl -u bluetooth -n 200" only mentions the original MAC once
[06:27] <Lvl4Sword> ravage, Not for me. journalctl -u bluetooth -n 200 has it.. everywhere. Just seems like udevadm doesn't pick up on it
[06:28] <ravage> ok. i dont think i can help you with further. maybe someone else can
[06:28] <Lvl4Sword> I appreciate the assistance regardless. It's definitely weird..
[06:30] <lagunaloire> Lv14Sword like i said...welcome to linux where there is always something to work on ...it is what keeps the distros in business for more than 25 years of change
[06:34] <lagunaloire> and the changes are sometimes drastic...you can't even find a 32 bit browser for xp that can see all the new web sites
[06:35] <ravage> !ot | lagunaloire
[09:15] <bodiccea> I have a keyboard for which I am 99% sure there is a working available driver (module) for it. However this driver does not know (yet) the product ID of my keyboard. How could I force this module to load and manage my keyboard ? Maybe some udev rule ?
[09:29] <lotuspsychje> bodiccea: when a device doesnt get recognized by default, i would advice to file a new !bug
[09:30] <lotuspsychje> bodiccea: maybe pastebin the output first of; journalctl -f and plugin your device, the volunteers can take a look for you
[09:32] <bodiccea> lotuspsychje, I would simply would like to test it first, to verify the existing driver works (the module already has many aliases, for similar keyboards, my variant product ID is simply not yet known). If not easy, I will recompile the module (I have the kernel source tree)
[09:37] <crax23> the vendor/device IDs, probably your model as a slightly different device ID number, so it's not recognised.
[09:37] <crax23> has*
[09:45] <bodiccea> crax23, I know that, this is why I would like to load the module with my productID (1b49). There is a module for this exact keyboard (Corsair K70) but a different finition.
[09:46] <bodiccea> lotuspsychje, http://ix.io/4gDr/text
[09:52] <lotuspsychje> bodiccea: your keyboard seems to get recognized, but you get a mtp-probe[133955]: bus: 5, device: 5 was not an MTP device
[09:53] <lotuspsychje> bodiccea: i found a few older bugs on corsair, but with older kernels and fix released, i would go for a new bug
[10:04] <bodiccea> lotuspsychje, I will test myself first, and send a patch if it works.
[10:51] <ravage> is anyone aware of recent kernel changes for USB audio devices? my audio is distorded since my last reboot of Ubuntu 22.04 and i get this kernel output which looks related: https://dpaste.com/8SDFAXPYL
[10:53] <ravage> and it seems specific to my logitech headset. my sennheiser USB headset works just fine
[10:56] <lotuspsychje> ravage: did you check dpkg logs what recently installed?
[10:57] <ravage> no package should really change the kernel messages or am i mistaken here?
[10:57] <ravage> (except the kernel package itself of course)
[10:58] <ravage> if im lucky it was the last kernel update. let me boot the previous one
[10:58] <lotuspsychje> ravage: kk, im browsing recent bugs meanwhile
[11:05] <lotuspsychje> ravage: cant find much recent bugs on sound right away
[11:06] <lotuspsychje> maybe see also if dpkg logs hold pulseaudio/pipewire updates?
[11:06] <ravage> Checking the logs now
[11:07] <lotuspsychje> ravage: Warning! Unlikely big volume range also beams me to a lot of old bugs, weird
[11:10] <ravage> cant find anything really
[11:10] <ravage> but the older kernels have the same problem
[11:10] <ravage> let me try it on another device
[11:13] <ravage> same problem
[11:13] <ravage> but also same up to date kernel
[11:13] <ravage> will boot a livecd
[11:20] <ravage> maybe the device is just broken
[11:20] <ravage> i get the same strange sound
[11:21] <ravage> will investigate further :)
[11:32] <lotuspsychje> ravage: just weird, it happened just after a reboot right?
[11:33] <ravage> thats what i think. but it does not work on any ubuntu i tried. will also check windows later
[11:34] <ravage> it may really just be the headset
[11:34] <lotuspsychje> is it a BT ravage ?
[11:34] <ravage> USB
[11:34] <lotuspsychje> kk
[13:09] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[13:47] <SteelRose> hi BluesKaj
[13:48] <BluesKaj> hey SteelRose
[13:52] <pickanick> Ubuntu 22.04 : why would dmesg have lines like "xfs filesystem being remounted at /run/systemd/unit-root/var/tmp supports timestamps until 2038 (0x7fffffff)" / "xfs filesystem being remounted at /run/systemd/unit-root/etc supports timestamps until 2038 (0x7fffffff)"
[14:01] <pickanick> Ah I found https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/21010   Some consider these repeated reports a feature, not a bug.
[14:01] -ubottu:#ubuntu- Issue 21010 in systemd/systemd "Systemd frequently remounts filesystem for some reason (???)" [Closed]
[14:24] <gauborfei> Hi
[14:58] <Mibix> hmm is there a way to copy the contents of a failing disk with ddrescue without creating an image or wiping the whole new drive?
[14:58] <lotuspsychje> Mibix: you can rescue data with photorec to another media if you like
[15:05] <Mibix> ahh photorec doesnt preserve the names so not really useful
[15:42] <hiya> How do you optimize your laptop for longest Netflix or Youtube play time?
[15:43] <hiya> I see that even with power saver profile in Gnome, it uses 1% / 1 or 2 mins
[15:43] <hiya> which makes it 100m of playtime only
[15:44] <lotuspsychje> hiya: laptop-mode-tools is a popular package users like
[15:44] <hiya> lotuspsychje: what does it do?
[15:45] <silver> Turning down the brightness and the video bitrate will help a lot.
[15:45] <lotuspsychje> !info laptop-mode-tools
[15:46] <hiya> Are the default settings good enough?
[15:46] <jhutchins> hiya: Good enough for whom?  It's up to you.
[15:46] <hiya> jhutchins: to improve video playback time
[15:47] <jhutchins> hiya: There are various ways to extend the power.  Larger battery packs are sometimes available, and there are ways to provide external power sources.
[15:47] <jhutchins> hiya: A lot depends on what laptop you have, they're all different.
[15:48] <hiya> Currently on my T16 gen1 AMD 6850U laptop, it is dropping like 1%/60 secs
[15:48] <jhutchins> Portable video players have a longer play time because that's the only thing they do.
[15:48] <hiya> or 75 secs of Youtube / Netflix
[15:48] <jhutchins> hiya: So that's an Asus T16?
[15:49] <hiya> jhutchins: thinkpad
[15:49] <jhutchins> There we go.  Thinkpads often have extended batteries available.
[15:52] <jhutchins> hiya: I don't see any AMD options, if you have the hybrid Nvidi/Intel graphics you can switch to the Intel for power saving.
[15:53] <hiya> jhutchins: but it is dropping like 1% on 86wh batery per 60-75secs
[15:53] <hiya> I think it is bad optimization
[15:53] <jhutchins> 52Wh or a 62 Wh battery available.
[16:00] <jhutchins> Looks like those are your only opetios, dual graphics are probably not available on the AMD version.  None of them have good video life.  It's just how they made them back then.
[16:06] <hiya> jhutchins: it is a brand new laptop
[16:15] <howudodat> quick question on printers.  22.04 gnome desktop.  if I go to settings printers, my printer is there.  if I click on additional printer settings, there is no printer.  I can print from Libreoffice, but not pdf viewer or chrome https://pasteboard.co/kHXzgIoIyPY6.png
[16:19] <ravage> howudodat: if i remember correctly then chrome has an option to open the system's print dialog?
[16:20] <ravage> ctrl-shift-p on the print dialog of chrome
[16:21] <howudodat> ravage: yes that's true, but I dont think the problem is in chrome.  evince doesn't see it either.  thunderbird sees the printer, text edit doesn't
[16:21] <howudodat> it's like there's two different printing subsystems
[16:22] <howudodat> gnome-control-center printers sees printer but system-config-printer doesn't
[16:22] <ravage> you can try to add it to http://<IP_ADDRESS>:631/admin
[16:35] <howudodat> well, I can see part of the problem, printer drivers database is empty
[16:53] <alkisg1> It's always these "quick questions" that need hours to solve... :D
[16:58] <jhutchins> howudodat: Did you configure the printer manually, or did it get added automatically?
[17:00] <jhutchins> boing
[17:00] <jhutchins> Er, boeing, and in a different channel.
[17:34] <marcopolo1> is apt-get the same as apt-install
[17:35] <bG9s> I'm thinking yes but `apt install`
[17:36] <marcopolo1> whats the difference
[17:37] <bG9s> apt-get is legacy
[17:37] <jhutchins> marcopolo1: apt and apt-get are different tools that do the same basic job but differently.  They use the same resources and the same local databases.
[17:37] <jhutchins> marcopolo1: The main difference is that they use different algorythms to determine package dependencies.
[17:38] <jhutchins> apt is also not meant to be used in scripts, while apt is.
[17:38] <bG9s> no wait
[17:38] <jhutchins> marcopolo1: There is also aptitude, which is simalar, but also uses a different algorythm and has a text menu interface (as well as CLI).
[17:38] <marcopolo1> so if i want to get any program, should i do apt-get or apt install
[17:38] <bG9s> apt install
[17:38] <jhutchins> er, apt-get can be used in scripts.
[17:39] <jhutchins> marcopolo1: Yes.
[17:39] <bG9s> ^^
[17:39] <jhutchins> marcopolo1: Either one.
[17:39] <jhutchins> marcopolo1: This is Linux, there are almost always at least three ways to do something.
[17:40] <marcopolo1> alright
[17:40] <bG9s> yep, in linux you can build a house out of nails *or* bricks
[17:41] <bG9s> I apologize for side commentary and will refrain as much as possible
[17:41] <jhutchins> bG9s: It's not like we're low on bandwidth.
[17:42] <bG9s> I've noticed some might have lower tolerance however
[17:42] <jhutchins> marcopolo1: I believe the chronology is that apt-get was the earlier tool, followed by aptitude, and more recently apt.
[18:16] <flylord> anyone know how to apply a theme to terminal. getting strange lettring on listings
[18:28] <jhutchins> flylord: Depends on what terminal emulator you're running, what your desktop is running, and what theme you're trying to apply.
[18:36] <maztor> exit
[19:02] <bancroft> I've made a deb file from a popular repo, is there a specific file in the deb that would reveal to me what git commit I used to build the deb file?
[19:12] <jpmh> I created a small c program, see https://termbin.com/7lry to understand setuid.  I changed the ownership to root:root and permissions to 4755 - on Raspian it creates the file in /tmp/ as expected, owned by the root.  On Ubuntu the l2ping fails and the file in /tmp is owned by me.  What am I missing
[19:24] <jpmh> I probably should add that errno is set to 1
[19:26] <crax23> It could be apparmor or another system thing like that.
[19:26] <rfm> jpmh, is the file system the binary is on mounted "nosuid"?
[19:26] <crax23> Raspbian is debian for raspberry, so...maybe looking at the differences with Ubuntu on the setuid/sudo side of things.
[19:27] <crax23> right what rfm said, also if the FS is VFAT or non linux or noexec could cause issue ofc.
[19:37] <jpmh> rfm: how do I verify that?
[19:38] <rob0> "mount", find your fs, see the flags (in parentheses at end of the line)
[19:39] <jpmh> roboand rfm suspect that this is the issue.  My home on Ubuntu is encrypted and does seem to be set that way
[19:40] <ochi> %join #raspberrypi
[19:48] <marcopolo1> what is it so if ubuntu has the choice between getting a apt and a snap it will install a snap
[19:48] <jpmh> rob0: rfm  I tried my program from a user that does not have an encrypted home.  It still failed.  Mount shows: https://termbin.com/tu2y- what am I missing now
[19:50] <rob0> You missed telling us which fs we should be looking at.
[19:54] <rob0> is it /tmp? That looks like it is on /
[19:55] <jpmh> rob0: I'm not sure that I know what you mean.  However, MY problem was that when I tested as a different user I had done an su to that user.  When I did it cleanly from a user with no encrypted home it worked
[19:55] <jpmh> so, TY to all that assisted me
[20:23] <dreamon> good evening. is it still possible to send emails from a gmail account by linux console? I always get -> ssmtp: Authorization failed
[20:24] <rob0> you'd have to set up your null client (ssmtp is a "null client") to authenticate
[20:25] <rob0> I don't know if there are any special quirks to authentication at gmail
[20:25] <dreamon> as i found out. only 2 factor authentifcation is possible.. they removed unsecure mode.
[20:35] <jhutchins> dreamon: Where did you find this?
[20:37] <rob0> I use thunderbird with a Google Workspace account, no 2FA.
[20:38] <rob0> but maybe it works because my browser is authenticated from the same address?
[20:39] <rob0> or maybe corporate accounts are different
[21:05] <alkisg1> dreamon: one method is app passwords, https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/185833
[21:06] <alkisg1> Ah you're already talking about this in #bash, never mind then
[21:11] <kenperkins> Hey, what's a good place to go to debug a bluetooth device that won't pair/connect, I assume that's not an ubuntu problem
[21:17] <dreamon> alkisg1, Thank you. never used a handy pw before Im sure this drives me crazy.
[21:32] <jonne> Hi, I have a recent Dell laptop running 20.04 with kernel 5.14.0-1054-oem with some additional oem packages with drivers for newer hardware. Is there a way to find out if the specific changes of this kernel and the additional driver packages have been merged into a more recent mainline kernel? Or does that in general not even happen?
[21:45] <tomreyn> jonne: you could additionally install ubuntu's default kernel or a mainline test build, or both, and then switch between those during boot, and compare what's (not) working.
[21:48] <jonne> tomreyn: good idea, hadn't thought of that.
[22:39] <gypsy> gypsy2spirit
[22:39] <arraybolt3> gypsy: ?
[22:39] <arraybolt3> gypsy: If that was your password, probably time to change that password.


[08:44] <MrAureliusR> I know budgie is written in vala, but I'm having a hard time finding ebooks about Vala... any suggestions?
[09:46] <dreamcat4> MrAureliusR: you can run that same --replace command on either budgie-wm or budgie-panel. the reason for doing it on budgie-wm is to make sure everything is fully killed and restarted. it might not matter which one either way. budgie-panel is a child process of budgie-wm
[09:48] <dreamcat4> MrAureliusR: vala is a psuedo-language that compiles down to C, it's apis are probably tightly integrated with other technologies used by gnome. such as GTK etc.
[09:49] <dreamcat4> so therefore other existing code of projects which use similar libraries / apis would be a good initial place to get your bearing from
[09:49] <dreamcat4> *bearing
[09:50] <dreamcat4> for example there might be some very complete and well written 'small projects' or standalone utilities written in vala. which are more self-contained and use a limited subset of these apis / dont have such a sprawling source code / keep referring to stuff outside of the scope that you are looking at
[22:24] <MrAureliusR> ugh it just froze again. so it wasn't the forecast applet
[22:25] <MrAureliusR> ah crap I just ran that replace and reset command, and it wiped all my customizations... sigh. I meant to edit it first
[22:25] <MrAureliusR> that took me like the better part of an hour to get it set up the way I wanted


[18:48] <switchflip> Hello... is anyone on here willing to try and help with a upstart issue I'm having
[20:13] <mustmodify> Upstart knows how to start a process, with status message "project-dev start/running, process 24020 ", but doesn't know how to stop it. Can someone give me a push in terms of how to think about solving this problem?
[21:32] <switchflip> I am having a similar problem with upstart.
[21:32] <switchflip> I start a process, it forks but upstart loses track of the PID and then it is unable to stop the process or restart it.
[21:33] <switchflip> Apparently it is a known bug (https://bugs.launchpad.net/upstart/+bug/406397)


[00:54] <_stink_> yo
[01:28] <rick_h_> evening
[13:45] <cmaloney> morning!
[13:46] <cmaloney> How's the day so far?
[13:46] <rick_h_> not too bad
[13:46]  * rick_h_ is in the woods
[13:46] <rick_h_> albiet in the woods backed up to a road
[13:46] <cmaloney> rick_h_: That didn't take long. :)
[13:47] <rick_h_> no, got in last night
[13:47] <rick_h_> got one of the last 2 spots in the campgroudnm
[13:47] <rick_h_> holiday weekend rush to get a spot
[13:47] <cmaloney> Didn't even give it a proper pre-flight check. ;)
[13:47] <rick_h_> only way to test it is to use it!
[13:48] <rick_h_> though do need to head back to the house for a few things that I missed while loading yesterday
[13:48] <cmaloney> heh
[13:48] <cmaloney> Though if you're only "up the street" then it's not too big of a deal
[13:49] <rick_h_> yea, it's a 15min drive down dixie hwy
[13:49] <cmaloney> Yeah, that's "towing distance"
[13:49] <rick_h_> towing distance is anywhere! :P
[13:49] <cmaloney> heh
[13:50] <rick_h_> kind of bummed we're not going as many miles this year as last year
[13:50]  * rick_h_ needs to find some more states to visit
[13:50] <cmaloney> Ask Congress about Puerto Rico
[13:50] <cmaloney> and the Virgin Islands.
[13:51] <cmaloney> I think we're overdue for some new states
[13:52] <cmaloney> Also: do they do camping in Europe? :)
[13:56] <mrgoodcat> morning
[14:04] <cmaloney> https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/4l24hn/ <- MySQL is a better NoSQL
[14:05] <jrwren> rick_h_: you working from that woods?
[14:06] <jrwren> cmaloney: i just threw up in my mouth a little.
[14:06] <jrwren> oh.... but compared to mongodb, I'll agree!
[14:07] <cmaloney> heh
[14:07] <jrwren> lol "MongoDB: so bad that it makes MySQL look good in comparison."
[14:07] <cmaloney> Basically they take away a lot of the things that MySQL does poorly (transactions, joins) and suddenly it's performant
[14:08] <jrwren> that is well known for ANY RDBMS.
[14:08] <jrwren> amazon told us that 15yrs ago.
[14:09] <cmaloney> Right but it's humorous to see MongoDB get the whipping it deserves
[14:09] <cmaloney> MongoDB is terrible. Period.
[14:10] <rick_h_> jrwren: yep
[14:11]  * rick_h_ wants to stand up for the product his teams use...and can't
[14:11] <wolfger> Mongo vs Access: go!
[14:11] <jrwren> I prefer Access.
[14:11] <rick_h_> mongodb brought something to the table when it had a form of HA before others did
[14:11] <rick_h_> but ... now not so applicaable
[14:11] <jrwren> rick_h_: that is a fair point.
[14:11] <jrwren> rick_h_: and honestly, I don't think I'd hate mongo nearly as much if we weren't using gridfs.
[14:11] <rick_h_> it's why Juju used it, they'd get HA for "free"
[14:12] <jrwren> hahaha, NEVER believe you get something "free" ;]
[14:12] <rick_h_> jrwren: true enough
[14:12] <rick_h_> (on the gridfs front)
[14:12] <jrwren> i definitely succomb to teh temptation often enough.
[14:13] <jrwren> re: mysql scaling: slashdot showed us this in 1998 when they had insanely high page views for DB page rendering at the time.
[14:18] <cmaloney> jrwren: Yep. Slashdot was a testament to the 1990's LAMP stack
[14:18] <cmaloney> P being Perl
[18:26] <greg-g> and wikipedia is the other P LAMP stack testament :)
[18:36] <wolfger> P LAMP?
[18:40] <jrwren> choose your P.  we have perl and php covered. Someone give python and pike examples :]
[18:43] <cmaloney> There's alleged pr0n sites running Turbogears. ;)
[18:43] <cmaloney> Though not sure what their database is.
[18:44] <jrwren> reddit is django, but I don't know if they use mysql or other.
[18:45] <cmaloney> Well, iirc Reddit started off in LISP so it's anyone's guess what they use for a backend
[18:46] <jrwren> postgresql
[18:46] <jrwren> http://highscalability.com/blog/2013/8/26/reddit-lessons-learned-from-mistakes-made-scaling-to-1-billi.html
[18:46] <jrwren> started off in lisp because paul graham has strong opinions :p
[18:46] <cmaloney> Honestly PostgreSQL is the answer to a lot of life's questions
[18:46] <jrwren> truth.
[18:46] <cmaloney> That's HN
[18:47] <jrwren> i'll be quoting you on that.
[18:47] <cmaloney> Reddit was not a Paul Grahm joint iirc
[18:47] <jrwren> cmaloney: read the url I just pasted and learn otherwise :p
[18:47] <cmaloney> No! You can't make me learn.
[18:47] <cmaloney> AAIIIUUUGGGHHH!
[18:47] <cmaloney> I'M ENLIGHTENED AND IT HURTS!
[18:48] <wolfger> heh
[18:48] <cmaloney> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexis_Ohanian
[18:48] <wolfger> Enlightenment was always one of my favorite desktops
[18:49] <jrwren> Enlightenment turned into a still interesting C gui toolkit.
[19:42] <cmaloney> Yeah, Enlightenment was when folks were still interested in doing neat things with X
[19:43] <cmaloney> I still think X is a great system, but I understand it's getting way long in the tooth
[19:43] <cmaloney> I'm just glad it's lasted as long as it has
[19:43] <jrwren> X has the big problem: no security.
[19:44] <cmaloney> worse, terrible security
[19:44] <cmaloney> There's a minimal effort to lock it down and it's laugably naive.
[19:46] <jrwren> mir and wayland will get us there.
[19:48] <cmaloney> I hope so
[19:48] <cmaloney> my fear is they'll muddy the waters
[19:49] <jrwren> they'll do that too.
[20:00] <cmaloney> Apparently the jury came to a verdict on Oracle vs. Google.
[20:01] <cmaloney> I think there's only one correct verdict in this case:
[20:01] <cmaloney> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[20:03] <cmaloney> They found for Google
[20:03] <cmaloney> Fucking Hallelujah
[20:12] <brousch> So we're not all out of jobs?
[20:13] <cmaloney> Thankfully
[20:13] <cmaloney> And I'm only slightly ashamed that I find the jury wise with this decision. Had they found for Oracle I would consider them dense.


[02:50] <XRS1> bah! running Saucy on a laptop and everytime i close the lid, the computer goes to sleep. i already went into Settings manager -> Power Manager and turned it off /restarted the system
[02:50] <XRS1> still it sleeps when closed
[02:50] <XRS1> n i keep forgetting n closing the lid when updateing/installing software/reporting problems
[02:55] <OvenWerks> XRS1: I think it is in two places...
[02:56] <XRS1> i've looked the whole thing over and it should'nt still be sleeping when closed
[02:56] <OvenWerks> Have you checked the screen saver settings?
[02:56] <OvenWerks> The advanced tab has some power stuff too
[02:57] <XRS1> screensaver is not loaded @ boot. warning me its not running now that i'm checking
[02:58] <XRS1> not seeing anything about sleep other than after x amount of time, which isn't enabled
[03:00] <OvenWerks> Ya something else.
[03:01] <OvenWerks> I have left my netbook on for... weeks for sure. but it is sitting on a desk open.
[03:04] <OvenWerks> In power manager: general I have: when battery present, ask, nothing,nothing, and both boxes checked.
[03:04] <XRS1> i have both lid options set for Do Nothing
[03:05] <sirriffsalot> XRS1: have you tried changing Desktop Environment at all?
[03:06] <XRS1> ?
[03:07] <XRS1> havent really done anything. just installed Saucy this evening, first thing i did was run dist-upgrade then closed the lid. luckily i didnt seem to mess up dpkg or anything
[03:10] <sirriffsalot> XRS1: are you new to GNU/Linux??
[03:11] <XRS1> eh yes and no.  been using linux since the late 90's but just as a secondary OS to fix windows and maybe screw around a bit.  last year i broke the hard drive in the laptop and had to run from an SD card and havent gone back to windows since
[03:12] <sirriffsalot> XRS1: before you type in your password (or not) and login, there is a scroll-down bar where you can select a desktop environment, yours is probably on "GNOME" or "XFCE[something]" Try changing it to some of the others and do the same again
[03:12] <XRS1> for saucy they removed all those options
[03:13] <XRS1> "to avoid confusion"
[03:14] <XRS1> im in xfce
[03:23] <OvenWerks> there was only xfce and ubuntustudio, both were xfce. So it is xfce either way.
[03:25] <Unit193> Though, xfce will overwrite your config and you'll have to remove it to "get back to" UbuntuStudio.
[03:25] <OvenWerks> I don't know if I dare test on mine though, because the bios is messed up and I have to have a vga monitor plugged in to boot or I get no video.
[03:25] <OvenWerks> There is no xfce session any more
[03:26] <Unit193> OvenWerks: Can you kexec jump it?
[03:26] <OvenWerks> And actually with the menu changes there is almost no difference anyway
[03:26] <OvenWerks> what is kexec ?
[03:27] <Unit193> It bypasses the BIOS in a reboot, so may work.
[03:27] <OvenWerks> Not if the computer went to sleep I think.
[03:27] <Unit193> 'This package provides tools to load a kernel into memory and then "reboot" directly into that kernel using the kexec system call, bypassing the normal boot process.'
[03:28] <OvenWerks> Ah, I will remember that.
[03:28] <Unit193> Ubuntu kernels support it, as do the Liquorix ones.
[03:29] <OvenWerks> These acers have a known problem if they run the battery too low the the bios seems to loose track of the lvds screen.
[03:29] <XRS1> i really need to be able to close the lid without it sleeping
[03:29] <OvenWerks> Ya, I feel the same way.
[03:30] <XRS1> maybe i borked it the first time n i should just re-install?
[03:31] <OvenWerks> Are you sure it is not just the monitor going to sleep? have you set the monitor controls to zero as well
[03:31] <XRS1> it sleeps n screws up whatever i was doing
[03:32] <XRS1> blue power light is a red blinky light indicating sleep
[03:32] <OvenWerks> Ok, that makes sense.
[03:33] <OvenWerks> have you looked at the syslog to see what it says happened?
[03:33] <OvenWerks> maybe the lid switch is being mistaken for some thing else
[03:34] <XRS1> where is that again?
[03:34] <OvenWerks> /var/log/syslog
[03:34] <OvenWerks> there are other log files in there too.
[03:37] <XRS1> Sep  6 19:36:48 nv NetworkManager[726]: <info> sleep requested (sleeping: no  enabled: yes)
[03:38] <XRS1> then it sleeps
[03:38] <OvenWerks> There is no udev liine?
[03:39] <XRS1> ran a search, 0 results
[03:43] <XRS1>  /button/input0 is never referenced
[03:45] <XRS1> let me do another one
[03:48] <OvenWerks> What happens if in the settings->session and startup->application autostart you turn off the power manager?
[03:51] <Guest30980> hi guys im trying to run zynaddsubfx and i get no sound maybe my audio path is not dev/dsp
[03:51] <Guest30980> any way to find it
[03:52] <OvenWerks> /dev/dsp?
[03:52] <Guest30980> anyone here
[03:52] <Guest30980> thats the devault i see in znyadd
[03:53] <Guest30980> in settings im figureing this mayd not be right i have no soun
[03:53] <OvenWerks> are you running jack?
[03:53] <Guest30980> i dont know im a newb
[03:53] <Guest30980> i installed ubuntu studio so i guess it dod  have everything wha
[03:54] <OvenWerks> ok. Lets start from the begining then.
[03:54] <Guest30980> i guess i just need to be broke in to getting this music software working i have tried em all and none of them worked expect the basics hydrogen and audiacity
[03:54] <Guest30980> sure
[03:54] <Guest30980> thanks for the help too
[03:55] <OvenWerks> audacity probably plays through pulse, which is the default desktop sound server.
[03:55] <XRS1> nope.
[03:55] <OvenWerks> hydrogen generally will start jackd up.
[03:56] <OvenWerks> XRS1: nope which?
[03:56] <XRS1> Power Manager is not checked in application auto-start, i rebooted and it still sleeps when the lid is closed
[03:56] <XRS1> i removed the check and restarted*
[03:57] <Guest30980> well i started jacked up and sill no sound from zynadd soft synth
[03:57] <OvenWerks> Ok, that means that none of the desktop settings will have any effect
[03:57] <OvenWerks> XRS1: ^^
[03:58] <Guest30980> any way to find the audio output path its not dev/dsp
[03:58] <XRS1> well it didnt have this problem this morning on 13.04
[03:58] <OvenWerks> Guest30980: you have to start jackd then use qjackctl to connect it.
[03:58] <Guest30980> how do i start jackd
[03:59] <XRS1> Guest30980,  /var/log/udev   <--this should know
[03:59] <OvenWerks> Ya, that I figie=red
[04:00] <OvenWerks> But what I am saying XRS1, is that whatever is putting it to sleep is sub session level. So if you get to the login screen and close the lid it will probably slep too.
[04:00] <OvenWerks> Maybe xfce4-power-manager is supposed to turn that off and doesn't
[04:01] <OvenWerks> Guest30980: do you have more than one sound card?
[04:02] <OvenWerks> XRS1: I think you have found a bug. It would be great if you could see if the live session from an ISO boot does the same thing.
[04:02] <Guest30980> oh crap i hate this
[04:03] <XRS1> k
[04:03] <OvenWerks> There is a learning curve, but once you figure it out it is very flexable
[04:03] <OvenWerks> XRS1: if it happens with the live session, I would like to see if this happens on an xubuntu live session
[04:04] <XRS1> well that i cant do. would take 5 hours on this connection
[04:04] <OvenWerks> studio is very simmiler to xubuntu, and xubuntu have some of the xfce devs in there too.
[04:04] <XRS1> but i can start that now and run the studio version
[04:06] <Guest30980> can anyone help me out here
[04:06] <OvenWerks> if you want to try xubuntu, I would just copy the iso image to a new directory and run the xubuntu zsync against it. It should take a lot less time
[04:06] <OvenWerks> I am trying, Guest30980 how many sound cards do you have.
[04:06] <OvenWerks> ?
[04:06] <Guest30980> one i guess
[04:07] <Guest30980> its a laptop
[04:07] <XRS1> do you have HDMI?
[04:07] <OvenWerks> Ok.
[04:07] <Guest30980> i have a tv tuner plugged in
[04:07] <OvenWerks> that sounds like a second sound source.
[04:07] <OvenWerks> but that should not affect things too much.
[04:08] <Guest30980> how can i find my sound card path
[04:08] <Guest30980> dev/dsp i dont think is right just to be sure
[04:08] <Guest30980> do u know the command
[04:08] <Guest30980> ???
[04:08] <OvenWerks> Guest30980: probably now that you have run hydrogen there is a jackd running that needs to be killed
[04:08] <Guest30980> all my jack are dead
[04:08] <Guest30980> now what
[04:09] <OvenWerks> alsa audio devices are like hw:0
[04:09] <Guest30980> the jack audio connectin kid is closed
[04:09] <Guest30980> its open but not in play
[04:09] <Guest30980> now what
[04:10] <OvenWerks> probably log out and in again to start. That will get rid of anything running
[04:10] <Guest30980> dude whats the process
[04:10] <Guest30980> im not going to log out
[04:11] <OvenWerks> killall -9 jackd
[04:11] <OvenWerks> jack_control exit
[04:11] <OvenWerks> open qjackctl
[04:11] <OvenWerks> select the setup button
[04:12] <OvenWerks> The first two are in a terminal
[04:12] <Guest30980> the first two what
[04:12] <OvenWerks> commands I gave above.
[04:13] <Guest30980> do it before or after i start jackd
[04:13] <OvenWerks> before
[04:14] <OvenWerks> and you want to start qjackctl.
[04:14] <OvenWerks>  This will actuially start jackdbus
[04:14] <OvenWerks> (once it is set up)
[04:15] <Guest30980> and
[04:16] <OvenWerks> have you gone to the setup menu?
[04:17] <Guest30980> yes sir
[04:17] <Guest30980> im right here go as fast as u want
[04:18] <OvenWerks> on the right side a little more than half way up it says interface.
[04:18] <OvenWerks> beside that there is a >
[04:18] <OvenWerks> if you click that it should show a list of audio devices.
[04:18] <Guest30980> ok yea
[04:18] <OvenWerks> HDA should be hw:0
[04:18] <Guest30980> try each one till i get sound
[04:19] <OvenWerks> that is the one you want
[04:19] <OvenWerks> once have that OK it and then hit start
[04:20] <Guest30980> ok please go faster
[04:20] <OvenWerks> if you hit the Connect button, you should see a screen with three tabs
[04:21] <OvenWerks> The audio tab should show system and PulseAudio jooined
[04:21] <OvenWerks> Are you there?
[04:21] <Guest30980> yes
[04:22] <OvenWerks> Now start your application and change the setting to use th jack IF
[04:22] <Guest30980> go as fast as u want im tearing up my system in between pauses
[04:22] <OvenWerks> I ca only type so fast.
[04:23] <OvenWerks> When you have it should show up in the audio tab in the connect dialog
[04:23] <Guest30980> dude u lost me go to settings change dev/dsp to hw 0 ??
[04:23] <OvenWerks>  no to jack
[04:24] <OvenWerks> I don't have the application you meantioned so I can't tell you what it does.
[04:24] <Guest30980> ok start what application zynaadd
[04:25] <OvenWerks> I don't have that... so I don't know.
[04:25] <OvenWerks> I have zynjacku
[04:26] <Guest30980> ok great now it wont start
[04:26] <Guest30980> gee thanks pal
[04:26] <XRS1> okay, the live CD sleeps when laptop lid is closed in the live 13.10b1. Sleep is not even an option for that in Power Manager. (no rush)
[04:27] <OvenWerks> Thankyou for having patience
[04:27] <OvenWerks>  :)
[04:28] <OvenWerks> So if you sudo apt-get install zsync
[04:28] <XRS1> eh.. im fine with just downloading the ISO.  its already 25% there
[04:29] <OvenWerks> OK, because this sounds like a bug xubuntu would like to know about... although it is probably a general ubuntu thing.
[04:30] <XRS1> so where should i file the bug?
[04:31] <gamer_> hey man thanks i got sound now i had to reboot
[04:31] <gamer_> sorry i got impatient
[04:31] <XRS1> XD
[04:33] <OvenWerks> gamer_: great
[04:33] <OvenWerks> XRS1: if you open a terminal and do ubuntu-bug xfce4-power-manager
[04:34] <OvenWerks> it should do it all on its own pretty much
[04:34] <gamer_> yeah man that was it the path was jacked up its hw
[04:34] <OvenWerks> You will
[04:34] <gamer_> which synth do u use and is it a soft synth
[04:35] <OvenWerks> XRS1: you will end up with the browser at a login page probably
[04:35] <OvenWerks> I would use qsynth for most thng
[04:35] <OvenWerks> *things
[04:35] <OvenWerks> hexter is a nice dx7 clone
[04:36] <OvenWerks> aeolus if you want pipes
[04:36] <OvenWerks> qsynth is pretty general though
[04:37] <OvenWerks> gamer_: how are you triggering it? midi keyboard or from a program?
[04:37] <gamer_> triggering what
[04:37] <gamer_> im using a software synth no hard keyboard here
[04:38] <OvenWerks> triggering the synth
[04:39] <OvenWerks> You might like LMMS which has synth modules in it already as well as a sequencer
[04:39] <OvenWerks> It is a "fruity loops" clone.
[04:39] <gamer_> do i make them all work by doing the hw 0 thing
[04:39] <gamer_> i take it
[04:40] <OvenWerks> ok.
[04:40] <OvenWerks>  if you want them to mix together you will want to use jack. If you just one at a time hw:0 is fine
[04:40] <OvenWerks> !proaudio
[04:41] <gamer_> how do i use jack i dont see jack in the settings where we found hw 0
[04:43] <OvenWerks> Which app are you looking at?
[04:44] <gamer_> jacked
[04:44] <gamer_> ok now im in yoshimi what its asking for a jack server it shows default
[04:45] <gamer_> no sound banks for yoshimi
[05:01] <XRS1> filed as Bug #1222021; https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-power-manager/+bug/1222021
[05:02] <Unit193> And you said happens in Xubuntu too, of course?
[05:02] <XRS1> still waiting on confirmation?
[06:06] <Guest86058> yo how do i connect more then one program since u said i could only use one using hw 0
[06:12] <XRS1> Confirmed Bug #1222021 in Xubuntu 13.10 Beta 1 x64
[13:26] <Guest81911> привет всем. Мне здесь могут помочь по настройке убунту 12.04?
[13:27] <Guest81911> тут-тук
[21:30] <jcbv1> hi guys i need some help agains setting up jacked
[21:30] <jcbv1> it seems the interface route is the key so i wanna make sure i set it up right in  qjackctl


[00:08] <Linuxian> hello
[00:09] <cjohnston> hello Linuxian
[00:09] <Claudinux> Linuxian, hi
[15:55]  * slangasek waves
[15:56] <jdstrand> o/
[15:56] <ogra> moop
[16:00] <slangasek> #startmeeting
[16:00] <cjwatson> hi
[16:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 10:00. The chair is slangasek.
[16:00] <asac>  o/
[16:01] <pitti> o/
[16:01] <ttx> o/
[16:01]  * marjo waves
[16:01] <davidbarth> o/ too
[16:01] <slangasek> Riddell, sistpoty|work, apw: ping
[16:02] <slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2010-02-12
[16:02]  * apw waves nochalently
[16:02] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2010-02-12
[16:02] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Actions from previous meetings
[16:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  Actions from previous meetings
[16:02] <slangasek>   * asac and ScottK to review the plan for xulrunner demotion and present the resolution at the next meeting
[16:02] <slangasek>   * slangasek to poke priorities of hw testing bugs (DONE)
[16:02] <slangasek>   * pitti to triage bug #506816 to see if it's a dkms bug (DONE)
[16:02] <slangasek> asac: what's the status here?
[16:02] <asac> i havent talked to him. but after reviewing the list of what needs xul in main i am confident that we will have to keep it in main even
[16:03] <slangasek> hmm
[16:03] <asac> so what we do is we treat main and universe the same.
[16:03] <asac> e.g. go through the list and dump everything that we cant commit to support
[16:04] <slangasek> well, ok
[16:05] <slangasek> nothing for it, I suppose
[16:05] <asac> if we could get rid of couchdb things would be better ;)
[16:05] <slangasek> heh
[16:05] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Server Team
[16:05] <MootBot> New Topic:  Server Team
[16:06] <ttx> o/
[16:07] <ttx> Status at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
[16:07] <ttx> Alpha3 milestoned bugs:
[16:07] <ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/492365
[16:07] <slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
[16:07] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
[16:07] <ttx> done now
[16:07] <ttx> next one was also very recently closed
[16:08] <ttx> That leaves us with https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/515812
[16:08] <ttx> Which I'm working on right now, setting Inprogress to reflect that
[16:08] <ttx> I'm blocking on my test infra right now
[16:09] <ttx> If I can't get past it, I'll just upload Monday and test with the archive :)
[16:09] <ttx> Alpha3 status/progress at:
[16:09] <ttx> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-server-lucid-alpha-3.html
[16:09] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-server-lucid-alpha-3.html
[16:10] <ttx> Only 2 High/Essential specs at < 80% completion
[16:10] <ttx> server-lucid-uec-testing (50%): Most remaining work items are about exercising tests, can be completed after FF
[16:11] <ttx>  server-lucid-seeds (50%): Pending redhat-cluster-suite and ctdb discussions, my understanding is that demotions can be finalized after FF as well.
[16:11] <ttx> Bugs in other teams affecting us:
[16:11] <ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/506297
[16:11] <slangasek> (last-minute shuffle of the agenda order, asac needs to get out of the meeting early today)
[16:11] <ttx> This one raises the interesting question of the necessity of plymouth on servers, if it triggers some instability
[16:12] <slangasek> er, which I answered in the bug log
[16:12] <ttx> slangasek: yes, I saw that :)
[16:13] <ttx> slangasek: do you expect to fix that issue for alpha3 ?
[16:13] <ttx> (you as in "Foundations team")
[16:14] <slangasek> it's not really about the pretty splash - we could even disable that for server if that's deemed appropriate; the real issue is having a common interface for boot-time processes to talk to... carrying lots of extra code in all the other packages to work around this would be a fail
[16:15] <slangasek> ttx: Keybuk thinks we need to be waiting for a new upstream code drop that changes a lot of code, which either will fix it or will change so much that we should wait for it to land before hacking on it; I don't have a timeline from him for this yet
[16:15] <ttx> slangasek: right, I think that would be a fallback option, better try to fix the bugs
[16:15] <ttx> slangasek: is it reasonable to make a decision on that by beta1 ?
[16:15] <Keybuk> slangasek: 5-10 days
[16:15] <slangasek> there you go :)
[16:16] <ttx> Keybuk: thanks !
[16:16] <slangasek> so if it's not fixed for alpha-3, it should definitely be fixed for beta-1
[16:16] <Keybuk> exactly
[16:16] <ttx> That's all from me, questions ?
[16:17] <slangasek> none here, anyone else?
[16:17] <Keybuk> ttx: my understanding is that there *should* be a graphical screen for server
[16:17] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Mobile Team
[16:17] <MootBot> New Topic:  Mobile Team
[16:17] <Keybuk> just that when boot is done, it should show the getty
[16:17] <asac> cool. thanks a lot slangasek
[16:17] <Keybuk> is that right?
[16:17] <asac> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
[16:17] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
[16:18] <asac> so we have switched to UNE ... and have the 2d launcher now!
[16:18] <ogra> \o/
[16:18] <ogra> its so sexy !
[16:18] <ttx> Keybuk: yes, that's what the bug is about. But I'd rather say that there *could* be a graphical screen for server
[16:18] <asac> very nice expereience i suggest anyone with arm boards to try that ;)
[16:18] <ogra> ++
[16:18] <cjwatson> ttx: the default will be one or the other
[16:18] <ttx> Keybuk: I don't mind it if it works, but I don't mind if there isn't one either
[16:18] <asac> another really good news is that we managed to mitigate the doomy thumb2 on dove issue
[16:19] <asac> using a kernel patch and swapping hardware ... that finally unblocks the thumb2 rebuild spec
[16:19] <ogra> by switching to new silicon :)
[16:19] <asac> and continue with the thumb2 porting
[16:20] <asac> also we unbroke mono and now have good images for dove and imx51 (last i looked)
[16:20] <slangasek> ah, great!
[16:20] <ogra> todays was fine :)
[16:20] <asac> please dont upload anything like mono and openoffice till alpha-3 is over ;)... thanks
[16:20] <ogra> heh
[16:21] <asac> on the bug front we got a bunch of bugs fixed ...
[16:21]  * ogra always thought he was the only one saying that :)
[16:21] <asac> i made the important thumb2 bugs release critical now (as you can see on the agenda)
[16:21] <asac> we are organizing mini sprints now to get that list to zero ... then we will continue and work on the not-so-serious thumb2 issues identified
[16:21]  * ogra notes that bug 457878 isnt on the report (it should be)
[16:22] <asac> maybe the link again
[16:22] <ogra> kernel team is actively working on it
[16:22] <asac> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/Thumb2PackageReviewList
[16:22] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/Thumb2PackageReviewList
[16:22] <asac> ogra: let me check
[16:22] <asac> ogra: feel free to target for release on your own next time ;)
[16:23] <ogra> its milestoned, but not targeted :/
[16:23] <asac> i will add that to the wiki after meeting. thanks
[16:23] <slangasek> asac: now, what about the lightweight browser decision?
[16:24] <asac> we are waiting on a reply from chromium devs about their release/security update model ...
[16:24] <asac> e.g. we would use it i think if we get green light from security team
[16:24] <slangasek> ok
[16:24] <asac> but after talking to kees ... he feels not good about that unless we figure out how that can be supported decently
[16:25] <slangasek> who's responsible for following up with chromium upstream?  mobile or security?
[16:25] <asac> me ... but i think its a good idea to keep security in the loop
[16:25]  * slangasek nods
[16:25] <asac> will do that from now on
[16:26] <slangasek> it's starting to get late for switching the default browser (MIRs, FF, etc) - can we expect some progress on this by next week?
[16:26] <marjo> slangasek: agree
[16:26] <asac> slangasek: yes. i try
[16:26] <pitti> is chromium really that much more "lightweight" than firefox, which would justify the enormous commitment?
[16:26] <asac> slangasek: note though that its not a default switch on all images
[16:26] <slangasek> asac: that changes nothing :)
[16:27] <pitti> (it's no different from firefox here, but then that's just my crappy box)
[16:27] <asac> pitti: it is much faster
[16:27] <ogra> pitti, it scrolls without stuttering in frambuffer and starts up a lot faster
[16:27] <pitti> ogra: ah, I wouldn't notice scrolling speed
[16:27] <ogra> remember we dont have xservers on armel
[16:27] <pitti> startup is just as slooow as ffox here
[16:27] <pitti> anyway, you guys measure it on the relevant hardware
[16:27] <pitti> so ignore me
[16:28] <asac> so yes. lets say we need to see good progress by next week to pursue this idea
[16:28] <slangasek> anything else on mobile?
[16:28] <asac> not from me
[16:28] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Kernel Team
[16:28] <MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Team
[16:28] <slangasek> asac, ogra: thanks
[16:28] <asac> thanks
[16:28]  * ogra thakls the installer team for help on oem-config
[16:28] <slangasek> apw: hi
[16:28] <ogra> *thanks
[16:28] <apw> Overall Kernel Team status is summarised at the first URL below, including the items called out in the agenda.  Alpha-3 activity is summarised at the second URL below, of which we have completed approximatly 60% and are on target to complete them.  We remain above the line on our burn-down chart (at the third URL below), but we made significant progress last week at Sprint towards hitting that target:
[16:28] <apw> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
[16:28] <apw> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid#Milestone%20lucid-alpha-3
[16:28] <apw> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-kernel-team.svg
[16:28] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
[16:28] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid#Milestone%20lucid-alpha-3
[16:28] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-kernel-team.svg
[16:28] <apw> We reviewed suspend/resume strategy last week, we now have additional diagnostics patches in testing to aid diagnosability of suspend issues, we have also put a triage and diagnosis plan in place to aid characterisation and detection of common faults.  The ubuntu delta tasks are progressing with the discussed patch changes being applied and uploaded for testing.  Of the three arm bugs called out, one is believed fixed, the second has patches which
[16:28] <apw>  are under review, and the third remains under investigation.
[16:28] <apw> Testing of the Nouveau LBM package has been fairly good so far and an updated version has been uploaded and awaits source NEW, userspace bits should already be in place.  The distro kernel is now pulled up to v<IP_ADDRESS> and remains pretty stable in testing.  The mvl-dove branch has been rebased to the distro tip and stabilising patches applied, testing is ongoing.
[16:29] <apw> .. done
[16:31] <slangasek> any questions for kernel?
[16:32] <slangasek> [TOPIC] QA Team
[16:32] <MootBot> New Topic:  QA Team
[16:32] <slangasek> apw: thanks
[16:32] <slangasek> marjo: hi
[16:32] <marjo> HW Testing
[16:32] <marjo> http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
[16:32] <marjo> Netbook:
[16:32] <marjo>    passed:   7 (54%) failed:   3 (23%) untested: 3 (23%)
[16:32] <marjo> Laptop:
[16:32] <marjo>    passed:   23 (92%) failed:    0 ( 0%) untested:  2 ( 8%)
[16:32] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
[16:32] <marjo> Server:
[16:32] <marjo>    passed:   52 (98%) failed:    0 ( 0%) untested:  1 ( 2%)
[16:32] <marjo> Desktop:
[16:32] <marjo>    passed:   12 (100%) failed:    0 (  0%) untested:  0 (  0%)
[16:33] <marjo>    * UbuntuSpec:lucid-qa-checkbox-desktop-experience-tests
[16:33] <marjo> Still targeting for lucid-alpha-3.
[16:33] <marjo>    * UbuntuSpec:qa-lucid-automated-server-testing
[16:33] <marjo> Alpha-3 work items being transferred to ara and sbeattie from soren.
[16:33] <marjo> On track for alpha-3
[16:34] <marjo> that's all folks from QA team, any questions?
[16:34] <pitti> netbook failure is still due to the same sound card bug?
[16:35] <slangasek> yes
[16:35] <fader_> pitti: probably; I've asked alexmoldovan to gather the info on those bugs
[16:35] <marjo> pitti: we will also file additional bugs today as more analysis is done
[16:35] <fader_> He turned them up yesterday and hasn't yet filed bugs
[16:36] <slangasek> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/lucid-qa-checkbox-desktop-experience-tests - is that actively under development?  Some of the work items are rather broad ("integrate new tests during the course of the release"), I wonder if this is really on track
[16:36] <marjo> slangasek: yes, just confirmed with cr3 today
[16:36] <marjo> we'll adjust work items to be more precise, if necessary
[16:37] <slangasek> that particular one could probably use some finer-grained detail
[16:37] <marjo> slangasek: agree
[16:37] <slangasek> anything else on QA?
[16:37] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Desktop Team
[16:37] <MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop Team
[16:37] <slangasek> marjo, fader_: thanks
[16:37] <slangasek> pitti: hi
[16:37] <pitti> as usual, our report is on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
[16:37] <pitti> since the last meeting we made great progress on landing specs, and boot speed,
[16:37] <marjo> slangasek: thx!
[16:37] <pitti> see wiki for details
[16:38] <slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
[16:38] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
[16:38] <pitti> specs which were called out in the invitation:
[16:38] <pitti> desktop-lucid-default-apps: Remaining WI is a new feature in F-Spot which was just applied to the 0.7 branch; it does not have a release yet, and it's not clear whether it'll be stable by beta-1. Ken now worked on a backport and has a first version available in a PPA; might still be a bit rough for alpha-3, but believed to be fixable for lucid.
[16:38] <pitti> desktop-lucid-xorg-triaging-diagnosis: remaining work is outside the distro around bug management; some bits might get dropped, and until now Bryce worked on more urgent tasks
[16:38] <pitti> (remain targets of opportunity, since investments there will save time later on)
[16:38] <pitti> lucid-ubuntu-one-client-app: Goal of OLS, not desktop team
[16:38] <pitti> but was confirmed to be on track for FF
[16:39] <pitti> (I can't say much about it beyond that, I'm afraid)
[16:39] <pitti> the bug front remains reasonably calm, most important one was a regression due to ATI KMS; still being figured out (details in the wiki report)
[16:39]  * jdstrand hates that bug
[16:40] <pitti> oops, please ignore the "planned intrusive changes for alpha-3" section, it was old; I just removed it from the wiki page
[16:40] <slangasek> that's bug #507148, I guess?
[16:40] <pitti> right
[16:40] <jdstrand> yeah
[16:40] <pitti> this will probably require a pull of ati/rdm from 2.6.33
[16:40] <jdstrand> btw-- you can see in the bug and upstream report-- still no progress
[16:41] <pitti> or we have to disable KMS on ATI by default
[16:41] <pitti> oh, the Ubuntu bug has a lot of recent action
[16:43] <slangasek> is there any more news on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-openoffice?  (spec says "there is currently not a roadmap")
[16:44] <pitti> 3.2.0 is in lucid right now
[16:44] <pitti> but beyond that it depends on upstream whether .1 lands on time
[16:44] <slangasek> yes, but the spec says 3.2.1, and says it's not due out until March-ish
[16:44] <slangasek> (in fact, we only have 3.2.0 rc4 in lucid...)
[16:45] <pitti> I don't know more precise dates right now, but I'm happy to discuss with Chris
[16:46] <slangasek> I think it would be good to pin that down more precisely, yes
[16:46] <slangasek> anything else for desktop?
[16:47] <jdstrand> pitti, slangasek: fyi-- I'm very keen to get that radeon bug fixed. I have several people who have this card depending on me to upgrade their machines to Lucid
[16:47] <pitti> no Kubuntu report this week, Riddell is on holiday
[16:47] <jdstrand> pitti, slangasek: I'm affected too, so it is easy for me to test things
[16:48] <pitti> it seems the kernel team has backported much of the stack and is calling to test them
[16:48] <pitti> but it's certainly not an easy backport
[16:48] <apw> we have a small backport of 4 patches which i am told stop it crashing
[16:48] <jdstrand> I've tested everything they gave me so far-- no difference afaics
[16:48] <apw> in nomodeset mode
[16:49] <jdstrand> apw: with or without compiz?
[16:49] <slangasek> isn't that bug report specifically about KMS?
[16:49] <apw> which would the lower risk option i presume...  i've note reviewed them yet
[16:49] <jdstrand> slangasek: I think they are hoping to have a fallback
[16:49] <pitti> it was said to not overrun memory when disabling modeset, yes
[16:50] <jdstrand> well, with no KMS, using compiz results in a different problem-- hard lockup (I filed a bug)
[16:50] <slangasek> ah
[16:50] <apw> which presumably you would get with KMS too if it worked
[16:50] <jdstrand> the only working configuration is no KMS, use XAA, do not use compiz and use RenderAccell off
[16:50] <apw> the plans are needing discussion, but the original was to disable cards which do not work with KMS
[16:51] <slangasek> ok, sounds like there's a lot of following up to be done there
[16:51] <apw> the other bug is a plain regression i assume, and we may have fixes for it
[16:51] <slangasek> which I trust jdstrand will help with, since he has motivation :)
[16:51] <jdstrand> apw: compiz with KMS crashes compiz and is bug #507148. compiz without KMS is a lockup (not a memory issue)
[16:52] <apw> can you get me the other bug number too please
[16:52]  * jdstrand looks
[16:53]  * davidbarth waves: DX? while jstrand looks for the bug?
[16:53] <slangasek> jdstrand: when you have it, please follow up with apw as needed
[16:53] <slangasek> [TOPIC] DX Team
[16:53] <jdstrand> apw: there are actually several I've filed: 513950, 513956, 507148
[16:53] <MootBot> New Topic:  DX Team
[16:53] <davidbarth> eh
[16:53] <slangasek> davidbarth: yes :)
[16:53] <slangasek> pitti: thanks
[16:53] <davidbarth> ok, so the report is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/LucidReleaseStatus
[16:54] <slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/LucidReleaseStatus
[16:54] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/LucidReleaseStatus
[16:54] <jdstrand> apw: and one more that only affects notify-osd with XAA: 513968. that is worked around by using RenderAccel off
[16:54] <davidbarth> dx-lucid-application-indicator
[16:54] <davidbarth> big compatibility change last week; allows KDE & Gnome to finally share compatible APIs, namespaces, types, etc.
[16:54] <davidbarth> created some side effects while the different libs & desktops were out-of-sync, should be resolved with the latest kubuntu update as of today
[16:54] <davidbarth> stream of bug reports (and some fixes for them), thanks to the porting effort with app. indicators
[16:55] <jdstrand> apw: also, the upstream bug listed in 507148 has a lot of info
[16:55] <davidbarth> for this blueprint, we are in bug fix mode now
[16:55]  * jdstrand is done
[16:55] <davidbarth> dx-lucid-gtk-improvements
[16:55] <davidbarth> ongoing work on further gtk patches for cs-deco; plan is to release that early next week, before the Thursday upload window
[16:56] <davidbarth> so this one is a bit particular, the cs-deco changes can create some artefacts: layout issues mostly
[16:56] <davidbarth> setting up a test-plan with qa (as planned in the bp, but coming late) to cope for that
[16:57] <davidbarth> the thing we'll be adding early next week is the ability to blacklist apps that have issues, to be able to better control that kind of bugs
[16:57]  * slangasek nods
[16:57] <davidbarth> dx-lucid-sound-indicator
[16:57] <davidbarth> finally in Lucid! please report bugs; known issues (unimplemented: auto-mute detection and automatic switching of default output device)
[16:57] <davidbarth> ("and there was much rejoicing" ;)
[16:58] <davidbarth> dx-lucid-me-menu
[16:58] <davidbarth> landed last week, as part of the Portland sprint; new integration with gwibber mostly, featuring an IDO (IndicatorDisplayObject) entry in the menu
[16:58] <davidbarth> IM integration, same as when integrated in the SessionMenu
[16:58] <davidbarth> will continue integration with the "About Me" feature for A3
[16:58] <davidbarth> and another menu next:
[16:58] <davidbarth> dx-lucid-session-menu
[16:58] <davidbarth> user list and switching feature restored; based on the new API provided by Robert Ancell
[16:59] <davidbarth> so this one should be feature complete now
[16:59] <davidbarth> keeping a wi open for potential integration issues left after that release
[16:59] <davidbarth> and some more:
[16:59] <davidbarth> dx-lucid-notifications
[16:59] <davidbarth> set of former SRU candidates, now merged into trunk
[16:59] <davidbarth> closeNotification API fix remaining
[16:59] <davidbarth> bp should be 100% complete after that
[17:00] <davidbarth> that's it for bp/wi tracking
[17:00] <davidbarth> one bug in the agenda:
[17:00] <davidbarth> 506683: indicator-applet doesn't show menu choices when selected
[17:00] <davidbarth> so this one was meant to be fixed by the big dbusmenu/indicate update of last week; but was not tracked per se
[17:00] <davidbarth> ie, can't 100% say we've closed it
[17:01] <slangasek> I was seeing the bug with some frequency before; I can watch for it and update the bug for next week
[17:01] <davidbarth> will nudge ted on monday specifically, but i haven't spotted occurences of that kind of bug anymore
[17:01] <davidbarth> yes, safe to keep it on the agenda, as it was a tricky race condition
[17:02] <davidbarth> and it took some time and 2 releases for ted to feel better about it
[17:02] <davidbarth> that's it for the report
[17:02] <davidbarth> questions, feel free to ask
[17:02] <slangasek> [ACTION] slangasek to follow up on bug #506683 to verify whether it's reproducible after latest indicator uploads
[17:02] <MootBot> ACTION received:  slangasek to follow up on bug #506683 to verify whether it's reproducible after latest indicator uploads
[17:03] <slangasek> no questions here; anyone else?
[17:03] <davidbarth> i guess we could also try to track the app. indicator porting effort as part of that
[17:03] <slangasek> as part of which?
[17:03] <davidbarth> i haven't looked at the status for the different apps, but the latest status was that it was proceeding well
[17:04] <davidbarth> there is a big list maintained by community; maybe i'll let jono or jorge comment as part of their report
[17:04] <slangasek> the community team doesn't report as part of this meeting?
[17:04] <davidbarth> we're also tracking some libappindicator/dbusmenu bug repotrs that are filed by porters; that's a nice sting to improve that infrastructure
[17:04] <jcastro> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=indicator-application
[17:05] <jcastro> ^^^ that's the progress of the porting work
[17:05] <davidbarth> jcastro: yes, thanks for the link
[17:06] <slangasek> [LINK] https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=indicator-application
[17:06] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=indicator-application
[17:06] <slangasek> how many of these apps are expected to change for lucid?  (Since that's all feature work, and is affected by FF)
[17:07] <davidbarth> as much as possible; knowing that the fallback support mechanism makes safe a safe path
[17:07] <jcastro> everything is on the default desktop has a contractor assigned with the goal of making FF
[17:07] <slangasek> ok
[17:07] <davidbarth> ie, apps that are not ported continue to work with the old systray
[17:08] <jcastro> the universe ones are community opportunities.
[17:08] <davidbarth> right
[17:09] <slangasek> ok - anything else on DX?
[17:09] <davidbarth> slangasek: nope, that's it for me
[17:09] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Foundations Team
[17:09] <MootBot> New Topic:  Foundations Team
[17:09] <slangasek> davidbarth: thanks
[17:09] <slangasek> cjwatson: hi
[17:09] <cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
[17:10] <cjwatson> I've put summaries there of all the specs in the agenda, as well as a few others that have mostly been deferred now
[17:10] <cjwatson> the only ones I'm actively concerned about are the software-center ones, which I think were always likely to run late or have bits deferred
[17:11]  * slangasek nods
[17:11] <cjwatson> slangasek: would appreciate your feedback on the remaining bits of release-collaboration-with-debian, as I'm not very current on that
[17:11] <cjwatson> the rest of pre-desktop-lucid-startup-speed should land next week, subject to fixing this automatic installation bug which I'm going to try to do today; Keybuk says he believes that should get us very close to the 10s targets
[17:12] <cjwatson> *target
[17:12] <slangasek> one of the remaining items there is openoffice.org, which it seems still has some uncertainty on our side; I'll follow up with ccheney today and also check with _rene_
[17:12] <pitti> (FYI, 11.2 s with the rsyslog/dd change done locally)
[17:13] <slangasek> java/X, I'll look at in the next few days as well; perl, we're current with Debian now so that probably just needs the status updated
[17:14] <cjwatson> yeah, I assume the question was whether we were going to remain current ;-)
[17:14] <slangasek> well, there is that. :)
[17:14] <cjwatson> I'm going to be off next week, so am mostly trying to nail down the absolutely vital stuff today, like the gfxboot changes
[17:15] <slangasek> (at the time the question was raised, we were behind Debian by a perl point release)
[17:15] <cjwatson> oh, right, that was never really a big problem
[17:16] <cjwatson> if perl were hard to merge, we'd have somebody permanently assigned to it :)
[17:17] <cjwatson> anyway, nothing else here, unless there are other questions
[17:19] <slangasek> no questions here
[17:19] <slangasek> anyone else?
[17:20] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Security Team
[17:20] <MootBot> New Topic:  Security Team
[17:20] <slangasek> cjwatson: thanks
[17:21] <jdstrand> so, ass always: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
[17:21] <jdstrand> hehe
[17:21] <slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
[17:21] <jdstrand> s/ass/as/
[17:21] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
[17:21] <jdstrand> We postponed a few medium and lower items before the sprint.
[17:21] <jdstrand> so our burndown overall looks good
[17:21] <jdstrand> for alpha 3 we have http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-security-lucid-alpha-3.html
[17:22] <jdstrand> While security-lucid-ufw-devel is targeted for alpha 3 and shown as 17% (5 items left), the reality is that the work is almost done and it just hasn't hit Ubuntu yet. That should be at 100% completion sometime next week when I upload ufw 0.30.
[17:22] <pitti> this graph looks backwards..
[17:22]  * slangasek grins
[17:23] <slangasek> and the burndown line is across the bottom, that's no good :)
[17:23] <jdstrand> that graph never made a lot of sense to me...
[17:23] <jdstrand> but, the Status by specification does...
[17:23] <jdstrand> (which is what I am talking about here :)
[17:24] <jdstrand> beyond that, we have no RC bugs and are on track
[17:24] <slangasek> great to hear
[17:24] <jdstrand> that is it from me
[17:25] <slangasek> any questions for security?
[17:25] <slangasek> [TOPIC] MOTU
[17:25] <MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU
[17:25] <slangasek> jdstrand: thanks
[17:25] <slangasek> sistpoty|work, ScottK: here?
[17:25] <jdstrand> sure :)
[17:26] <ScottK> slangasek: Here, but I'm on travel for work, so I have no idea what's going on in MOTU right now.
[17:26] <slangasek> ok
[17:26] <slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
[17:26] <ScottK> Just barely managed to be on IRC.
[17:26] <MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
[17:26] <slangasek> anything else to touch on this week?
[17:27] <slangasek> FF is next Thursday, in case anyone didn't notice :)
[17:27] <slangasek> so if you're going to need freeze exceptions, it's not too early to let the release team know
[17:27]  * slangasek raises the gavel in slow motion
[17:28] <slangasek> #endmeeting
[17:28] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:28.
[17:28] <slangasek> thanks, folks!
[17:28] <pitti> thanks everyone
[17:40] <sistpoty|work> slangasek: sorry, was afk, had a lengthy debug session with a coworker
[17:41] <slangasek> sistpoty|work: no worries - anything you wanted to share today?
[17:41] <sistpoty|work> slangasek: well, I wanted to raise the question about merging ubuntu-release and motu-release
[17:42] <sistpoty|work> slangasek: and in case we want to do this if we already want to do this for lucid
[17:42] <slangasek> I think it should happen for lucid; I'll follow up to the mailing list thread today
[17:43] <sistpoty|work> slangasek: *nod*, especially since FF is very close
[17:43] <sistpoty|work> thanks!


[14:04] <slyon> iomari891: netplan always parses all YAML files in /etc/netplan/ by default. But you could execute the generator binary directly to execute a given YAML file: /usr/lib/netplan/generate [config file ..]


[16:52] <Eickmeyer[m]> Oof... I think hexter might be dead upstream.
[17:09] <OvenWerk1> not dead... just not well maintained
[17:11] <OvenWerk1> I think the ladspa part is probably ok... not sure about the GUI
[17:12] <OvenWerk1> works in 18.04 though
[17:16] <OvenWerk1> on the other hand, I think we do ship dexed
[17:18] <OvenWerk1> Carla doesn't seem to realize I have any dssi plugins anyway
[17:22] <OvenWerk1> qtractor says we have fluidSynth (we have that anyway), Hexter, Whysynth, and Xsynth
[17:22] <OvenWerk1> The last two are the same so far as I know (forks of each other)
[17:23] <Eickmeyer[m]> The GUI is toast on Fedora. I might have to retire it from Fedora (I just became the maintainer there). I'm thinking replacing hexter with dexed might be in order.
[17:24] <Eickmeyer[m]> I'm filing a "life check" issue with hexter on github.
[17:24] <Eickmeyer[m]> No commits for two years to the day tomorrow.
[17:25] <Eickmeyer[m]> Carla might just needed to be pointed to the right path.
[17:25] <Eickmeyer[m]> *need to be
[17:26] <Eickmeyer[m]> My native language doesn't work before I've completed my second cup of coffee.
[17:27] <Eickmeyer[m]> We don't ship dexed. There is no package, not even in Debian.
[17:28] <Eickmeyer[m]> Would definitely be worth packaging though.
[17:28]  * OvenWerk1 wonders how come he has it then
[17:31] <Eickmeyer[m]> Unless you compiled it yourself...
[17:31] <OvenWerk1> Ah, I seem to have downloaded it from somewhere
[17:31] <Eickmeyer[m]> I just did a package search, and we don't have it.
[17:31] <Eickmeyer[m]> Maybe Filipe has it in his repos?
[17:31] <OvenWerk1> no need, LV2s don't really need a package
[17:32] <OvenWerk1> (well they do to include in a distro)
[17:33] <OvenWerk1> but because they should not system libs and the xorg lib API is static they should run on any system
[17:33] <Eickmeyer[m]> Yeah, he doesn't have it. Just checked.
[17:33] <Eickmeyer[m]> Well, I guess I'll get to work on that.
[17:33] <Eickmeyer[m]> I honestly doubt I'll hear back from smbolton (hexter).
[17:33] <OvenWerk1> he has asnwered email in the past
[17:34] <OvenWerk1> but he has generally said he no longer wishes to work on it.
[17:34] <Eickmeyer[m]> Looks like he is local to me.
[17:36] <Eickmeyer[m]> Well, if he doesn't wish to work on it, then I guess I'll retire it in Fedora and we'll remove it from the seed starting next cycle, replacing it with dexed.
[17:37] <Eickmeyer[m]> It's suffering from some severe bitrot with the GUI not functioning.
[17:37] <OvenWerk1> dssi is dead basically. Ardour doesn't load them though qtractor does. But out of the four plugins only the two work
[17:37] <OvenWerk1> qtractor does load lv2s
[17:38] <Eickmeyer[m]> Yep. Might be worth removing dssi plugins from the seed altogether going forward then.
[17:38] <Eickmeyer[m]> Bitrot is a thing.
[17:40] <OvenWerk1> That may mean removing q-synth
[17:42] <OvenWerk1> hmm maybe not
[17:42] <OvenWerk1> It seems fluidsynth-dssi is a dssi wrapper around fluidsynth it self
[17:44] <Eickmeyer[m]> Interesting.
[17:45] <OvenWerk1> BTW I am not sure how up to date dexed is either
[17:46] <Eickmeyer[m]> Last commit = Feb 6, 2020.
[17:46] <Eickmeyer[m]> So, at least it's active.
[17:46] <OvenWerk1> good
[17:47] <Eickmeyer[m]> Last release was 2 years ago tomorrow. hehe
[17:48] <Eickmeyer[m]> However, it's VST and actively developed.
[17:50] <OvenWerk1> do we have dragonfly?
[17:51] <OvenWerk1> https://github.com/michaelwillis/dragonfly-reverb/
[17:51] <Eickmeyer[m]> Doesn't look like it.
[17:51] <OvenWerk1> I know that one is actively developed
[17:52] <Eickmeyer[m]> Yeah, it is. It's not in Debian,  Ubuntu, or Fedora. Arch and Manjaro have it.
[17:54] <Eickmeyer[m]> Looks easy enough to package.
[18:02] <OvenWerk1> we should export an LV2 path
[18:04] <OvenWerk1> default LV2_PATH is $HOME/.lv2:/usr/local/lib/lv2:/usr/lib/lv2
[18:08] <OvenWerk1> but it should also include: /usr/lib/ardour5/LV2, and the /opt/*/lib/LV2
[18:10] <Eickmeyer[m]> Agreed. We need something in default-settings with our paths.
[18:10] <OvenWerk1> I don't know if * works in a path :)
[18:11] <OvenWerk1> but we could create a file at boot that did that
[18:11] <Eickmeyer[m]> ^ That's what I mean, that or at login.
[18:11] <OvenWerk1> right
[18:11] <Eickmeyer[m]> The .session file could handle it.
[18:13] <OvenWerk1> wouldn't that be in /etc/skel though?
[18:13] <OvenWerk1> maybe something in /etc/X11/
[18:15] <OvenWerk1> I think if we added afile to /etc/X11/Xsession.d/ that would work
[18:16] <OvenWerk1> unless we wanted to add a plugin path setting to -controls...
[18:20] <OvenWerk1> I personally don't think we should do that though
[18:24] <OvenWerk1> I think the place for it might be /etc/X11/Xsession.d/56ubuntustudio-session because we already add that
[18:25] <OvenWerk1> We could even do it outside the "if" statement
[18:26] <OvenWerk1> except I guess we don't install that file except with xfce
[18:26] <OvenWerk1> so it would not work for studio on top of flavour
[18:28] <OvenWerk1> best to just call it 50set-lv2-path
[18:46] <Eickmeyer[m]> Nah, /etc/skel is dead.
[18:47] <Eickmeyer[m]> What I was thinking was using 56ubuntustudio-session for that.
[18:47] <OvenWerk1> Except it won't work for studio over flavour
[18:48] <Eickmeyer[m]> Well, if we want to make it DE-agnostic, then we should do something like 50set-audio-plugin-paths since there's more paths to be set than LV2.
[18:48] <OvenWerk1> sure
[18:49] <Eickmeyer[m]> Would that be appropriate to add to -controls?
[18:49] <OvenWerk1> no
[18:49] <OvenWerk1>  not in my opinion
[18:50] <Eickmeyer[m]> Didn't think so. Probably -performance-tweaks then (subpackage of -default-settings).
[18:50] <Eickmeyer[m]> Probably needs a rename though.
[18:51] <OvenWerk1> What I want to cover are packages like Mixbus that include plugins the user paid for and may want to use with something other than just Mixbus
[18:51] <OvenWerk1> So they should just show up in carla or Ardour or qtractor
[18:52]  * OvenWerk1 is off to the bank
[18:52] <Eickmeyer[m]> Yep.


[06:05] <mgedmin> huh gnome-terminal's word-chars setting got removed in 3.13
[06:10] <mgedmin>  waaah https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=727743#c10 is where : got removed from the now-hardcoded setting :(
[06:14] <mgedmin> so if it was removed in 3.14, why didn't I notice when I was running 3.14?  did ubuntu-gnome patch it back in?
[06:14] <mgedmin> or was the vte change applied in a later version?
[06:29] <mgedmin> towo, it's the new default upstream look, AFAIU (I also had the same reaction as you initially)
[11:30] <towo> mgedmin: Initially thought some theme files were missing, yeah.


[00:00] <AlanBell> nigelb: you are full of awesome
[04:26] <nigelb> AlanBell: :)
[14:10] <BigMac> does anyone know when firefox 3.6.15 will be available in the repositories?
[14:35] <Mkaysi> MichealH:
[14:35] <Mkaysi> ?lobotomy add #omg!ubuntu!
[14:35] <Mkaysi> The operation succeeded.
[14:35] <Mkaysi> MichealH: Is this OK. now?
[14:42] <em>  /query Mkaysi
[14:47] <akshatj> Mkaysi, its not funny to impersonate your bot
[15:01] <Mkaysi> akshatj: Sorry, wrong channel. That just disabled it at #omg!ubuntu!. It's already disabled from ubuntu-* channels.


[13:17] <maxolasersquad> Anyone else seen https://code.google.com/p/monav/
[13:17] <maxolasersquad> It may be a good solution to have GPS navigation on the phone.
[15:45] <Guest11875> nice find! we definitely need to have maps and navigation…


[09:45] <manveru> no, i tried to help you before the other one
[09:45] <PaloDeQueso> Is there anyway to install something and just ignore the dependencies altogether?
[09:45] <triode> oh, ok. It's been quite frustrating
[09:45] <manveru> but couldn't come up with something more useful than google
[09:45] <apokryphos> PaloDeQueso: man dpkg
[09:45] <triode> I don't understand linux enough to figure it out by myself
[09:46] <manveru> triode: well, in the area of USB you found my blind spot...
[09:46] <triode> that's sad to hear. I wish I could find somebody who had done this
[09:46] <triode> it's a popular pro sound interface
[09:47] <triode> and the How To's that I've found haven't worked for me, could it be Kubuntu?
[09:47] <manveru> how far did you get?
[09:47] <triode> could I be better using Debian or other maintream distribution?
[09:47] <triode> I get as far as getting the sound card listed
[09:47] <triode> under /proc/asound
[09:47] <manveru> listed where?
[09:47] <opnsrc> How do I add a trash can to my desktop?
[09:47] <opnsrc> Also, I accidently deleted something from Network
[09:47] <opnsrc> How do I get it back?
[09:48] <manveru> opnsrc: gimme your email, i'll send you one
[09:48] <opnsrc> from the shortcut menu
[09:48] <opnsrc> No, I mean a shortcut
[09:48] <Mic_hael> you can go to trash:/
[09:48] <opnsrc> I can add one to my Panel
[09:48] <opnsrc> but not my desktop
[09:48] <triode> is there an irc channel for ALSA? I should probably try that
[09:48] <manveru> triode: pretty sure it's #alsa
[09:48] <apokryphos> there is
[09:49] <triode> ok, I'll give that a shot thanks!
[09:49] <manveru> triode: np
[09:49] <opnsrc> ok but what if I want to drag something to the trash
[09:49] <opnsrc> How do i add one
[09:49] <opnsrc> just make it trash:/
[09:49] <Mic_hael> yes
[09:49] <triode> :)
[09:49] <kkathman> manveru: thankx for the tip...was able to figure it out from there
[09:49] <Mic_hael> create new link to location, and then you give it a name and point it to trash:/
[09:50] <manveru> np - i ran into this one quite a few times :)
[09:50] <opnsrc> tried it already
[09:50] <kkathman> manveru: did you ever use any tool for like DB Design - ERDs etc?
[09:50] <manveru> kkathman: no, using Og for that...
[09:50] <kkathman> Og?
[09:51] <manveru> ObjectGraph
[09:51] <manveru> it's an ORM for ruby
[09:51] <kkathman> I see....
[09:51] <manveru> i just create objects and interact with them
[09:52] <gerdude> hi
[09:52] <kkathman> manveru: I wonder if I could bother you to download this http://www.fabforce.net/downloads.php  and see if you can get it to install?  I just want to know if its my system or its broken :)
[09:52] <[miles] > yo, sorry guys, it's just not listing this msttcorefonts package... :-\
[09:52] <kkathman> its an ERD pkg
[09:52] <[miles] > running 5.10 with all updates
[09:52] <kkathman> very good under windows, but cant get it to install under linux
[09:53] <manveru> kkathman: will give it a shot
[09:53] <kkathman> I really appreciate that...I owe ya :)
[09:53] <Tm_T> kkathman: what's that
[09:53] <kkathman> Tm_T:  its an ERD designer
[09:53] <Tm_T> ERD?
[09:53] <kkathman> Visual DB design kit for Entity Relationship Diagrams
[09:54] <Tm_T> aah
[09:54] <kkathman> helps you define tables and creates SQL script to upload to your server
[09:54] <Tm_T> no idea what that means =)
[09:54] <Tm_T> aah
[09:54] <Tm_T> ok
[09:54] <manveru> kkathman: actually i intended to do something like :)
[09:54] <kkathman> it works wonderfully under windows, but I cants get it to do anything under linux
[09:54] <kkathman> thanks manveru ;:)
[09:55] <kkathman> I keep trying to move all of my development to my linux environment, but keep hitting roadblocks..I really need this tool or one like it
[09:56] <kkathman> well I shouldnt say "need"...I would highly desire it as it would make my productivity higher
[09:57] <manveru> kkathman: well... i try to run it.. and it does... nothing
[09:57] <kkathman> manveru: you type that ./startdbd and nothing happens right?
[09:57] <[miles] > anyone assist?
[09:57] <manveru> kkathman: exactly
[09:57] <kkathman> ok...well then its not just me :)
[09:58] <kkathman> thanks..you can just rm -rf that directory :)
[09:58] <kkathman> I need to find a tool for me that works :)
[09:58] <maarten> i am making changes to /etc/kde3/kdm/kdmrc, but they have no effect. any idea why??
[09:59] <manveru> kkathman: actually you should try to find the error in the 'startdbd' shellscript
[09:59] <manveru> kkathman: maybe they have /usr/local/* or something in there that doesn't work in debian-like systems
[09:59] <triode> manveru, I didn't get any reply at alsa channel. Can you suggest another channel that may help me with USB Audio
[10:01] <cRoW2k> hi
[10:02] <manveru> triode: ok, that's bad...
[10:02] <manveru> triode: you might try it in #ubuntu though...
[10:02] <triode> :) no kidding!
[10:02] <triode> ok, I'll try that
[10:02] <mdeboer> i am making changes to /etc/kde3/kdm/kdmrc, but they have no effect. any idea why??
[10:03] <cRoW2k> there is a mirror with source list update ? mine is broken
[10:03] <manveru> you are using kde2? :)
[10:03] <manveru> !sources
[10:03] <ubotu> A list of official repositories can be found at http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/969 (Hoary) or http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/2325 (Breezy) - Create your own sources.list at http://ubuntulinux.nl/source-o-matic
[10:03] <cRoW2k> oh thanks
[10:03] <manveru> mdeboer: you should change this stuff using kcontrol
[10:04] <mdeboer> manveru: why?
[10:04] <manveru> because it works?
[10:04] <mdeboer> that's not a reason
[10:05] <mdeboer> i want to know why editing kdmrc does _not_ work
[10:05] <manveru> ok, but don't expect an answer :)
[10:05] <manveru> this question doesn't work as well...
[10:06] <mdeboer> right.
[10:07] <neoncode> Hey, there are no ops in this chanel right?
[10:08] <apokryphos> neoncode: what's the problem?
[10:08] <manveru> i guess so :)
[10:08] <neoncode> apokryphos: Nothing, I just wanted to know what happens if we need to kick someone
[10:09] <manveru> wonder where they have gone...
[10:09] <apokryphos> neoncode: you type !kops  and if there's an availalbe op, they'll try to help
[10:09] <manveru> why would we have to kick some guy?
[10:09] <apokryphos> don't misuse it though
[10:09] <neoncode> I dunno, I was just wondering. Hypothetical
[10:10] <apokryphos> manveru: excessive trolling, spam, derogatory language etc etc
[10:10] <manveru> that is what /ignore was invented for :)
[10:10] <apokryphos> manveru: it's a pain to ask 152 members to /ignore a member
[10:10] <manveru> one of the most underestimated commmands in the history of irc
[10:11] <apokryphos> that's what /kick / +b was invented for :)
[10:11] <kkathman> lol
[10:11] <manveru> yeah, but these commands are not underestimated :)
[10:12] <apokryphos> depends on what type of person you are; I never use /ignore
[10:13] <manveru> when i find reason to ignore some person i don't automatically think others want to ignore this person as well
[10:13] <manveru> on the other hand i sometimes like to talk to excessive trolls :)
[10:13] <kkathman> rofl
[10:13] <neoncode> manveru: Why would you want to do that?
[10:14] <manveru> well, it's ubuntu after all :)
[10:14] <manveru> and trolls are humans too
[10:14] <neoncode> manveru: Bearly
[10:14] <manveru> somewhere... very... deep... within
[10:14] <manveru> you saw Shrek :)
[10:15] <manveru> however, i like my freedom to talk to whoever i want