[00:21] <torrem> hello
[00:22] <torrem> can i ask question?
[00:25] <bazhang> yes torrem
[00:27] <torrem> is ubuntu channel still banned my IP?
[00:28] <bazhang> torrem, not that I can see
[00:29] <torrem> ok thanks
 cant i talk to the people that make ubuntu
[08:07] <blazemore> Pici:
[08:17] <DJones> Hi kakaakak_
[08:18] <DJones> What was the nick that was banned so we can look up the details
[08:18] <kakaakak_> chunkyhead
[08:18] <ikonia> ahhh
[08:18] <ikonia> you do know why you where banned
[08:18] <kakaakak_> ikonia: banned me
[08:18] <ikonia> and why you continued to try to evade
[08:18] <ikonia> so please don't pretend you don't know
[08:19] <kakaakak_> ikonia: why was i banned, please let me know as well
[08:19] <ikonia> I'll get the details for you
[08:20] <ikonia> you where banned for telling lies about what you where doing - which was trying to install/use centos, and then when politly being asked not to, gave abuse
[08:21] <ikonia> you then tried to evade the ban multiple times
[08:21] <kakaakak_> ikonia: how do u know i was lying exactly? i was trying to install any linux version (hence i was asking for help on both centos and ubuntu channels)
[08:22] <kakaakak_> without using a CDROM or USB. u on the other hand were trolling asking irrelevant questions again and again/
[08:22] <ikonia> you where lying because a.) you admitted it b.) you where asking in #centos saying "I'm running centos"
[08:22] <ikonia> that gave me a good clue that you where not using ubuntu
[08:23] <kakaakak_> i was running centos but it was a really old version of centos. how was i lying exactly?
[08:24] <ikonia> because you where running centos.....
[08:24] <kakaakak_> and how does it matter if i was using centos, afaik i didn't violate any of irc guidelines when i did.
[08:24] <ikonia> and ubuntu is for ubuntu support
[08:24] <kakaakak_> i wanted to install ubuntu, so won't that come under ubuntu support?
[08:24] <ikonia> sure,
[08:24] <kakaakak_> i was on centos, so what?
[08:24] <ikonia> ok, so lets be honest
[08:24] <kakaakak_> sure why not
[08:24] <ikonia> you came in asking for centos help
[08:24] <ikonia> you got caught out
[08:25] <ikonia> you changed to "I want to install ubuntu"
[08:25] <ikonia> I tried to explain to you that your problem didn't actually appear to be a usb problem, but the fact that your centos install hadn't loaded the usb modules correctly
[08:25] <ikonia> and was trying to help prove/not prove that so you got a good solution
[08:25] <ikonia> instead you sent me private messages making jokes about my mother
[08:25] <ikonia> so you got banned
[08:25] <ikonia> you then persisted to try to evade the ban
[08:26] <ikonia> and that's why the ban stayed/your other nick/ips'
[08:26] <kakaakak_> let me tell you what to real story was. my old computer's cdrom and usb had failed. i had a really old version of centos so i wanted to upgrade to a more recent version, i was looking to install ubuntu or centos because i didnt mind both, how is that inviting for a ban?
[08:26] <ikonia> you continued to send me pm's over the last few weeks saying "can't ban me ha ha ha ha ha" or words to that effect
[08:26] <ikonia> re-read what I've said, and that should be clear why you where banned and why you have remained banned
[08:28] <ikonia> does that clarify it for you ?
[08:29] <kakaakak_> i agree about the private msg becuase it was frustrating to spend 4-5hours trying to install an OS, to which later i apologised as well. you were asking stupid questions to which i had already given the answer to
[08:29] <ikonia> you've not apologiezed
[08:29] <ikonia> you've tried to evade bans and sent mocking pm's for weeks
[08:29] <kakaakak_> dude, i did. u said haha do whatever you want because u are not going to be unbanned
[08:30] <ikonia> that is just nonsense
[08:30] <kakaakak_> the same evening i had sent a pm saying sorry, i was frustrated
[08:30] <ikonia> you have been using multiple nicks/ip's to mock evading the ban
[08:30] <ikonia> if you apologised, I'm sure I would have a.) noted it, b.) removed the ban as I appreciate how frustrating it can be
[08:30] <kakaakak_> from my home pc, and u said thank you for giving me ur correct ip, im banning this as well
[08:30] <kakaakak_> that's what really pissed me off
[08:31] <ikonia> that was when you contacted me to tell me you couldn't be banned
[08:31] <ikonia> not apologise
[08:31] <ikonia> there are even logs of you in #freenode pinging me to brag that you can't be banned
[08:31] <kakaakak_> it was initially, when u turned hostile i couldn't help it either bro.
[08:31] <ikonia> no-one turned hostile
[08:31] <ikonia> you refuse to listen, if you read the logs (which I'll link you to in a minute)
[08:31] <ikonia> you'll find you're getting good advice that you are looking at the wrong problem
[08:32] <ikonia> you thought your usb ports where dead - when they didn't appear to be, they appeared to be broken as your centos install was broken
[08:32] <ikonia> so you where getting advice on how to prove/disprove that
[08:32] <kakaakak_> this is just bs man, which channel guidelines did i violate. the only reason i PMed you because you were annoying.
[08:33] <ikonia> 1.) you where trying to get centos support until you got caught out 2.) you sent rude and offensive private mesages 3.) you tried to evade the ban multiple times after it was set
[08:33] <ikonia> those are the 3 guidelines
[08:35] <ikonia> that said, if you're actually willing to stop with this behaviour, and use the channel a little more honst and not be rude to users in the channel / pm we can look at removing the ban of your current nick/ip and your previous ones
[08:35] <kakaakak_> 3. i didnt evade, dynamic ip ftw. 2. try speding 4-5hrs in front of the computer explaining a random guy the same thing you will too, to which i was sorry and later apologized. 1. i wasn't caught out, as i explained i was looking to install anyone of ubuntu or centos whichever one was most convinient
[08:35] <ikonia> ok, so now we are back to lies
[08:35] <ikonia> you even tried to change the nickname
[08:36] <kakaakak_> yes because i needed help -_-
[08:36] <ikonia> right so you DID evade on purpose
[08:36] <ikonia> yo udidn't "dynamic ip"
[08:36] <ikonia> you made multiple efforts to evade on purpose and actually sent me messages for weeks mocking it
[08:36] <kakaakak_> how is that my fault that my isp offers dynamic ip
[08:36] <ikonia> oh, and it changes your nickname too
[08:37] <kakaakak_> i want i still can use ubuntu channel, the only reason i came here was to clear things out.
[08:37] <ikonia> I appreciate that, which is why I said if you can behave within the guidelines, I'd be happy to clear the bans on your current nicks and other nicks
[08:37] <ikonia> but you need to start being honest
[08:37] <Tm_T> kakaakak_: let met get one thing straight: there's no excuse for bad behaviour
[08:38] <kakaakak_> ikonia: man, i've been saying the same thing since day one. WHATEVER I SAID ABOUT CENTOS AND STUFF WAS NO LIE. IT WAS A GENUINE PROBLEM, I STILL HAVE IT.
[08:38] <jpds> kakaakak_: So, go to the #centos channel?
[08:38] <ikonia> no, but you just lied about evading the ban on purpose
[08:39] <kakaakak_> Tm_T: i felt i was being trolled, hence the behaviour. otherwise im pretty cool
[08:39] <ikonia> and you would not admit you where running centos until I actually caught you out
[08:39] <ikonia> kakaakak_: I fully appreciate your problem and believe I understand/can help on it
[08:39] <ikonia> which is why I'm trying to push you to validate your usb ports
[08:39] <Tm_T> kakaakak_: it doesn't matter, there's no excuse for bad behaviour whatsoever
[08:40] <kakaakak_> jpds: i was looking to install a recent version of any linux distro hence multiple channels
[08:41] <ikonia> kakaakak_: your initial question wasn't "how do I install ubuntu" it was "how do I update my kernel"
[08:41] <ikonia> and as you where running centos , asking in an ubuntu channel isn't good
[08:41] <ikonia> or at least say I'm running centos
[08:41] <ikonia> once you where caught out/corrected on that, you then wanted to install ubuntu
[08:41] <ikonia> which people, myself included tried to help you with
[08:41] <kakaakak_> ikonia: yes man, i was thankful for that.
[08:42] <ikonia> no you where not
[08:42] <ikonia> which is why you sent me a pm about my mother
[08:42] <kakaakak_> but later on i tried to explain you something to which you weren't listening
[08:42] <ikonia> again - honestly is the key
[08:42] <ikonia> kakaakak_: I assure you the channel was listening
[08:42] <ikonia> hence why you where getting GOOD advice
[08:42] <kakaakak_> i agree that wasn't good on my part.
[08:43] <kakaakak_> but i spend 2 hours trying to explain to you something which you weren't listening to, instead you were persisting on something else
[08:43] <ikonia> kakaakak_: I listened and understood, more than you did, which is why I was actually guiding you to the correct solution
[08:43] <kakaakak_> ikonia: then it was probably my frustrated mind which wasn't as receptive
[08:43] <ikonia> based on the information you provided in #ubuntu and #centos - I got a good picture of the problem and believe I understood and had a solution
[08:44] <kakaakak_> you guys can see my logs from the start, not just this incident, but from maybe when i joined, i really dont mess around. ikonia you have helped me aot earlier
[08:44] <kakaakak_> i have been using this channel for over 2 years i guess
[08:44] <ikonia> exaclty, I helped you
[08:44] <ikonia> and you chose to repay that by sending me a private message that was rude, evading bans and mocking me about it
[08:44] <kakaakak_> ikonia: you did, no doubt, but at that point i felt you were trolling.
[08:45] <ikonia> and then you come in here and try to lie saying "it was a dynamic iP"
[08:45] <ikonia> rather than "yes, sorry"
[08:45] <ikonia> if you scroll up - I said I'd be happy to remove the bans for you, then you started telling lies again
[08:45] <kakaakak_> i would say sorry if it was my fault. i agree i shouldn't have said bad things about your mother and i am sorry for it
[08:45] <ikonia> kakaakak_: I appreciate your sorry, that's all you had to say, but instead of you've wasted 20 minutes with lies
[08:46] <kakaakak_> ikonia: i still am not lying
[08:46] <ikonia> really, so did you , or did you not evade a ban on purpose ?
[08:46] <ikonia> yes/no
[08:46] <kakaakak_> ikonia: no
[08:46] <ikonia> right, so why did you change nicknames multiple times and IP addresses and continue to use #ubuntu knowing you where banned /
[08:46] <kakaakak_> because i needed help
[08:46] <kakaakak_> lol
[08:46] <ikonia> why did you send me messages saying "can't ban me !"
[08:47] <ikonia> kakaakak_: right, so that is "on purpose"
[08:47] <ikonia> so you are telling lies
[08:47] <ikonia> I don't find it funny, you're just wasting my time
[08:47] <kakaakak_> wait, for that purpose yes. that was on purpose again because i felt u were trolling
[08:47] <kakaakak_> other times when i evaded ban that was because i needed help
[08:48] <ikonia> so multiple times on purpose
[08:48] <ikonia> and multple mocking pm's
[08:48] <ikonia> or in public
[08:48] <ikonia> basically - I can't trust/believe what you are saying
[08:48] <kakaakak_> i agree, im sorry
[08:48] <ikonia> I don't believe you
[08:48] <ikonia> if you said that at the start, I would have done
[08:50] <kakaakak_> let me get things straight for the last time. 1. i still have that usb cdrom problem, looking to install any linux distro on it. 2. i did abuse your mother, i am sorry for it. 3.  1. i still have that usb cdrom problem, looking to install any linux distro on it. 2. i did abuse your mother, i am sorry for it. 3. i did evade bans, sometimes to mock you, other times for help (like now) 4. you do help, i just felt u were trolling hence the behaviour
[08:53] <kakaakak_> ^truth
[08:53] <ikonia> yes, it's the truth now
[08:53] <ikonia> but you started this tale - telling lies about it
[08:54] <ikonia> if you had said that at the start I would unban you straight away as I said
[08:54] <ikonia> but now I doubt what you say
[08:54] <ikonia> you also don't seem to grasp that becuase you feel you are being trolled - doesn't mean you can act as you did
[08:55] <ikonia> but I do appreciate you saying sorry, as opposed to pretending you said sorry rather than actually mocking me, that is appreciated
[08:55] <kakaakak_> ikonia: i had said sorry the evening you banned me.
[08:55] <kakaakak_> saying sorry man, im not asking for you to unban me
[08:55] <kakaakak_> but i just wanted to say sorry because i felt bad or something like that
[08:56] <ikonia> again - this is lies
[08:56] <ikonia> you came in here saying you wanted to be unbanned and you didn't know why you where banned
[08:56] <kakaakak_> umm is there a way to get pm chal logs?
[08:56] <ikonia> not to say sorry
[08:56] <kakaakak_> chat*
[08:56] <ikonia> not if you've closed the window,
[08:56] <ikonia> I'm sorry, but I can't continue with this as it's just a waste of time while you are telling lies
[08:56] <kakaakak_> ikonia: i did say. that's because i didnt know PMing someone could lead to channel bans
[08:57] <ikonia> sorry - this is just a waste of time now
[08:57] <kakaakak_> ikonia: you think after agreeing to what most of what you have said i would still lie about one thing and still continue a ban
[08:57] <ikonia> you just said you wanted to join not to get unbanned but apologies
[08:57] <kakaakak_> well sure
[08:57] <ikonia> yet you said earlier you wanted to be unbanned and didn't know why you where banned
[08:57] <ikonia> this is just total conflict
[08:57] <kakaakak_> yes because I DIDNT KNOW PMing COULD LEAD TO BANS
[08:58] <kakaakak_> i dont PM much.
[08:58] <ikonia> only to mock about evading bans or send abuse about people
[08:58] <kakaakak_> to which i said sorry.
[08:58] <kakaakak_> but u arent listening
[08:58] <ikonia> again, I am
[08:59] <kakaakak_> this type of behaviour i know is wrong, like i said i never do it. it was just this one time.
[08:59] <kakaakak_> and i still stick to what i said that i had apologized to you in the evening. and i am apologizing now as well
[09:00] <kakaakak_> if you still think im lying well idk
[09:00] <ikonia> kakaakak_: it wasn't just this "one time"
[09:00] <kakaakak_> ikonia: i mean before the banning incident
[09:00] <ikonia> you spent weeks in channels or pm mocking me saying you couldn't be banned
[09:00] <kakaakak_> i meant before the banning incident
[09:00] <ikonia> kakaakak_: right - so rather than address the problem, you just kept trying to evade
[09:01] <ikonia> and kept mocking me
[09:01] <ikonia> that is "problem behaviour"
[09:01] <kakaakak_> ikonia: i clearly remember you had said im not gonna ban you no matter what. at that time i didnt know there was a channel called ubuntu-ops
[09:01] <kakaakak_> or i would have addressed to them right away
[09:01] <ikonia> that is not true at all
[09:01] <ikonia> again - the sooner you can be honest, the better
[09:02] <ikonia> the fact that I said earlier I was willing to unban you a soon as you started being honest suggests that is not the case
[09:02] <kakaakak_> ikonia: ah man. I am saying the truth.
[09:02] <ikonia> I did say I would not unban you while you continued to try to evade
[09:02] <kakaakak_> why the hell would i stretch this convo more
[09:02] <ikonia> ok, you're right, lets end it now
[09:03] <ikonia> have a think for a few days, and come back to this channel and perhaps try to be a little more clear/honest at the start of the conversation and we can discuss removing the ban once we've both thought about it
[09:03] <kakaakak_> ikonia:  you did, when i apologized in the evening, you said thank you for correct ip, im banning this. to which i replied yea sure try all you want
[09:03] <ikonia> in the mean time if you could /part ubuntu that would be great
[09:03] <kakaakak_> ikonia: was that not true?
[09:04] <ikonia> false
[09:04] <kakaakak_> the only reason i apologized to you in the evening is because i felt i did wrong. you banned my other ip as well.
[09:04] <kakaakak_> dude that is bs man
[09:04] <bazhang> this is going nowhere
[09:04] <kakaakak_> dont unban me. thank you for ur time
[09:05] <kakaakak_> first you try to show your power when someone rightly apologizes and later deny saying that i am lying
[09:05] <ikonia> have a think for a few days, and come back to this channel and perhaps try to be a little more clear/honest at the start of the conversation and we can discuss removing the ban once we've both thought about it
[09:05] <ikonia> in the mean time if you could /part ubuntu that would be great
[09:06] <kakaakak_> i really wish we had logged PMs. ikonia then we'd know who was lying
[09:06] <ikonia> ok
[09:09] <ikonia> kakaakak_: if you could follow the request I've given (I'll also put some thought into it) /part #ubuntu can come back in a day, maybe two tops
[09:09] <ikonia> and we'll review it then with clear heads
[09:11] <ikonia> kakaakak_: also can I ask just before you go
[09:11] <kakaakak_> ikonia: i remember you said i've taken a screenshot of this PM. although you'd be most unwilling to give it here, but just review it and see i did apologize that same day
[09:11] <ikonia> I've not taken a screen shot of any pm ?
[09:11] <ikonia> nor have I said I have
[09:11] <kakaakak_> this was long back when i PMed you for the first time
[09:11] <ikonia> ok, sure, as I said we'll review it in a day or so
[09:12] <ikonia> kakaakak_: can I ask if you managed to replace centos on your machine ?
[09:12] <ikonia> or if you are still having the problem with it ?
[09:12] <kakaakak_> still same prob
[09:13] <ikonia> kakaakak_: so how did you get ubuntu on it ?
[09:13] <kakaakak_> i didnt. this is another maching i am using
[09:13] <ikonia> ahh, I see, understood
[09:13] <kakaakak_> like i said i still have that problem.. only if you'd read what i type
[09:13] <ikonia> kakaakak_: ok, so if you could /part #ubuntu, come back in a day or so, after we've had chance to think, we'll discuss it then with a clean slate/approach
[09:14] <kakaakak_> what does /part do?
[09:14] <ikonia> leaves the channel
[09:14] <ikonia> sorry, if you could leave the #ubuntu channel and not use it until we've discussed this in a day or so, that would be helpful
[09:14] <kakaakak_> you mean this account?
[09:14] <ikonia> I mean - you as a person not use it under any nick/account/ip
[09:15] <ikonia> then re-join this channel and we'll review your ban with a fresh approach
[09:15] <kakaakak_> just wondering.. why are you "thinking" of unbanning me now?
[09:15] <ikonia> (this channel is #ubuntu-ops in case you where not clear)
[09:15] <ikonia> kakaakak_: I was going to unban you earlier if you check the history of this converation,
[09:16] <ikonia> I just want some time to think about it and discuss it with others after some of the other parts of this converation
[09:16] <ikonia> so if you rejoin this channel in 24 hours or so, we'll re-asses it with a clean view
[09:17] <kakaakak_> k
[09:19] <kakaka> could you just tell me the date when i was banned
[09:19] <kakaka> ikonia: ^
[09:23] <kakaka> anyone?
[09:24] <tsimpson> kakaka: the ban for the nick chunkyhead was set on 2013-08-01
[09:25] <kakaka> thank you
[09:27] <ikonia> sorry, just had a phone call
[09:27] <ikonia> apologies for that
[15:21] <ikonia> blazemore: hey
[15:21] <ikonia> blazemore: why do you keep joining this channel ?
[15:22] <ikonia> ahhh I see it's a ban forward
[15:22] <blazemore> Because I'm +b on #ubuntu and it redirects me here
[15:22] <ikonia> blazemore: are you there
[15:22] <ikonia> yeah, I see you told someone to remove /var
[15:22] <blazemore> I'm waiting for pici
[15:22] <blazemore> He was my friend
[15:22] <blazemore> not pici, the guy I was talking to :)
[15:22] <ikonia> so ?
[15:22] <blazemore> I'll wait for Pici
[15:23] <ikonia> you posted someone should remove /var in a public channel
[15:23] <ikonia> you must understand that others read it as genuine advice
[15:23] <blazemore> I'll discuss this with Pici, he banned me
[15:23] <blazemore> I do
[15:23] <blazemore> It stopped being funny in my head about a second after hitting Enter
[15:23] <ikonia> fine, pici's not available at the moment (not been in all day)
[15:24] <blazemore> I PM'd him a few hours ago, our timezones cross over soon
[15:24] <ikonia> I think he's been out today as he's not been active all day, which is unusual for him
[15:24] <blazemore> Not idling in here
[15:24] <ikonia> well, I wasn't suggeting that
[15:25] <ikonia> just saying he may not be here
[16:38] <TsarObomba> hey guys, Just sayy sofrry toi i9konia
[16:45] <genii> TsarObomba: If there's nothing else, please don't idle in this channel.
[16:56] <TsarObomba> genii: soirry foir idling, I had an emergency that me  me afk
[16:57] <TsarObomba> I just eant to sapooligixzr sand thaqnk Pici AlanBell and Tm_T for their helkp in solvering.removing the bans
[16:57] <TsarObomba> thanks agaiuin, anbd iu an off
[17:21] <ikonia> delt
[17:21] <Reginaldo> HELLO FAGGOTS
[17:22] <ikonia> Reginaldo: I'll remove the mute in a moment - if you continue with that language you will be banned and removed without any more discussion
[17:22] <ikonia> Reginaldo: do you understnad ?
[17:22] <ikonia> understand
[17:23] <ikonia> ok - based on your response (I can read you when I'm opp'ed) I'm going to just remove you and ban you
[18:20] <genii> @comment 57344 Idling after being warned.
[18:40] <bazhang>  [Vellik] (~fellipe@<IP_ADDRESS>): Fellipe F. Oliveira
[18:40] <bazhang> seems to be in rant mode
[18:41] <ikonia> maybe worth a little chat ?
[18:43] <bazhang> got in PM no response
[18:43] <bazhang> ah ragequit
[18:49] <genii> Weird, he seemed fairly reasonable earlier. < checks backscroll to see what happened>
[18:53] <genii> Ah, had some words with daftykins, who seems to have also somewhat provoked it.
[18:55] <bazhang> not really
[18:56] <bazhang> he way overreacted and then had a whole drama about it
[18:59] <genii> Yes, I agree the reaction was out of proportion.
[18:59] <bazhang> the user wanted to keep wubi. daftykins just said to read up before suggesting help
[19:00] <bazhang> vellik was talking about a solution that amis simply did not want
[19:01] <genii> bazhang: I thought they gave a bit of a jab ( although possibly with humorous intent) when they said "but bear this in mind - if a job is worth doing it's worth doing well, not rushed in a half-assed way :D"
[19:01] <bazhang> genii, I got that as towards amis using wubi
[19:11] <genii> bazhang: I'd already typed out the entire line before you hit !ot ... but hopefully he gets the hint
[19:11] <bazhang> hehe
 Hi! Im free for asking! Being an old unix guy .. I just want to bring out all my knowledge to you guys!
[19:42] <bazhang> now we can learn Romulan
[19:48] <genii> Yeah, that's been on my bucket list for a while now.
[19:48] <ikonia> I'll have to restain from showing me basic Romulan
[19:48] <ikonia> restain
[19:48] <ikonia> restrain
[19:48] <ikonia> stupid key sticking that tie
[19:48] <ikonia> time
[19:50] <Tm_T> ikonia: white shirt and tie -friday?
[19:51] <ikonia> ?
[19:51] <Tm_T> just kidding about the typo
[19:52] <ikonia> ahh
[19:52] <ikonia> in a very very ironic twist, the darmok TNG epsiode has just appeared on my TV
[19:52] <ikonia> and the like "shaka the walls fell" has just been said - 10 seconds ago
[19:52] <ikonia> no joke
[19:53] <genii> Yes, very weird.
[19:55] <ikonia> I'd just finished watching the episode redemption II and the next episode was darmok
[19:56] <ikonia> freaky timing
[19:57]  * genii hums the Twilight Zone theme for theatrical effect
[21:25] <LzrdKing> is this the right place to request an unbanning from #ubuntu-offtopic that occured a few months ago?
[21:27] <IdleOne> LzrdKing: this is the correct channel
[21:27] <LzrdKing> then i would like to make such a request
[21:27] <LzrdKing> could i please be unbanned from #ubuntu-offtopic?
[21:29] <IdleOne> Do you remember why you got banned?
[21:29] <LzrdKing> yes, i posted a link that ikonia found offensive and i should have known better
[21:30] <LzrdKing> but i know better now
[21:31] <IdleOne> yes, I just looked at that link and I have to agree that although funny it was not appropriate for any ubuntu channels
[21:31] <LzrdKing> it was logged!
[21:31] <IdleOne> the ban is logged and the reson for the ban
[21:31] <IdleOne> reason
[21:32] <LzrdKing> i just wanted to share
[21:32] <LzrdKing> but i realize it was not appropriate
[21:32] <IdleOne> LzrdKing: I understand, but you should also know that if/when you have an issue with an ops decision it is also not appropriate to argue it in the channel, instead you should come to this channel to discuss it.
[21:33] <LzrdKing> definitely
[21:33] <IdleOne> anyway, mistakes happen and I think you now know what is appropriate for ubuntu channels. I'll have the ban removed.
[21:33] <LzrdKing> thank you
[21:33] <IdleOne> sure thing
[21:34] <LzrdKing> there are no ops here... who gets ops in a channel for ops?
[21:34] <IdleOne> everybody here is an op in one or more ubuntu channels
[21:34] <IdleOne> we don't wear the @ all the time. Only when needed.
[21:35] <LzrdKing> :)
[21:35] <IdleOne> just give me a few minutes to track down someone to remove the ban
[21:36] <LzrdKing> ok, thank you
[21:38] <IdleOne> almost forgot
[21:38] <IdleOne> !guidelines
[21:38] <IdleOne> just in case you haven't read them before
[21:39] <LzrdKing> i will familiarize myself with them again
[21:39] <IdleOne> thank you.
[21:45] <IdleOne> There you go. remember to /part this channel
[21:51] <genii> @comment 57349 Ad spam
[22:37] <genii> Myrtti: Was http://ubottu.com/bans.cgi?log=57253 some repeat offender that came back with a derogatory nick just after?
[22:38] <Myrtti> no, that's the unicode vulnerability
[22:39] <genii> Ah, OK, thanks.
[22:40] <Myrtti> coretext api or whatever
[22:40] <genii> @comment 57253 Reviewed, not removed
[22:41] <Myrtti> I'll actually remove it, if you don't mind
[22:42] <Myrtti> if irssi plays ball with me
[22:42] <genii> OK :)
[22:43] <IdleOne> Do we really need mernilio wasting time in the channel?
[22:44] <Myrtti> well if he can't take the hint, I'll show him the door
[22:44] <Myrtti> likewise Murica
[22:59] <wilee-nilee> hello
[22:59] <IdleOne> hey wilee-nilee thanks for joining
[22:59] <wilee-nilee> sorry I relaize that was not called for
[23:00] <IdleOne> I just wanted to bring to your attention that in the past I have asked you not to tell people you are ignoring them. In that same spirit I would appreciate it if you didn't tell people not to ask you for help anymore. It is rude and only serves to upset the user.
[23:00] <wilee-nilee> no problem I am working on these responses. ;)
[23:01] <wilee-nilee> not acceptable even to me.
[23:01] <IdleOne> I know that sometimes helping people is frustrating but you can not take it out on them
[23:01] <wilee-nilee> yes, that is right
[23:01] <IdleOne> alright. thank you for your time :)
[23:01] <wilee-nilee> NO problem. ;)
[23:02] <wilee-nilee> I have slow cap key, lol
[23:02] <IdleOne> no WORRIES
[23:02] <IdleOne> :P
[23:03] <IdleOne> @mark wilee-nilee Asked to not tell user he is ignoring them or that he will not help them.


[00:01] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: fcitx5-gtk [riscv64] (impish-proposed/universe) [5.0.3-1ubuntu1] (no packageset)
[01:25] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: fcitx5 (impish-proposed/universe) [5.0.5-1ubuntu1 => 5.0.5-1ubuntu2] (no packageset)
[01:26] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted fcitx5 [source] (impish-proposed) [5.0.5-1ubuntu2]
[07:14] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: yabasic (impish-proposed/universe) [1:2.89.1-1build1 => 1:2.90.1-1] (no packageset) (sync)
[07:15] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted yabasic [sync] (impish-proposed) [1:2.90.1-1]
[07:15] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: mobile-broadband-provider-info (impish-proposed/main) [20201225-1 => 20210805-1] (desktop-core) (sync)
[07:53] <RikMills> please let kio in from the impish queue. I have tested the fix/patch. thanks :)
[08:10] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: hitori (impish-proposed/universe) [3.38.2-1 => 3.38.3-1] (no packageset) (sync)
[08:12] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted hitori [sync] (impish-proposed) [3.38.3-1]
[10:40] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: zfs-linux (impish-proposed/main) [2.0.3-8ubuntu8 => 2.0.6-1ubuntu1] (core, kernel-dkms)
[11:12] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: gnome-shell (impish-proposed/main) [40.2-1ubuntu6 => 40.5-1ubuntu1] (desktop-extra, mozilla, ubuntu-desktop)
[11:55] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: calamares-settings-ubuntu (impish-proposed/universe) [1:21.10.1 => 1:21.10.2] (lubuntu, ubuntustudio)
[12:05] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New sync: gnome-shell-extension-top-icons-plus (impish-proposed/primary) [27-4]
[12:50] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: yaru-theme (impish-proposed/main) [21.10.1 => 21.10.2] (ubuntu-desktop)
[13:44] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: weechat (impish-proposed/universe) [3.2.1-1ubuntu1 => 3.3-1] (no packageset) (sync)
[13:45] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted weechat [sync] (impish-proposed) [3.3-1]
[14:00] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted kio [source] (impish-proposed) [5.86.0a-0ubuntu3]
[17:29] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: gnome-user-docs (impish-proposed/main) [40.4-1ubuntu1 => 40.5-1ubuntu1] (ubuntu-desktop)
[22:57] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: debian-keyring (impish-proposed/universe) [2021.07.26 => 2021.09.25] (no packageset) (sync)
[22:57] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted debian-keyring [sync] (impish-proposed) [2021.09.25]
[22:58] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: simple-scan (impish-proposed/main) [40.1-1 => 40.5-1] (ubuntu-desktop) (sync)


[12:07] <Spec> LaserJock: -some- of us have houses with more than 50 rooms, so it's no problem.
[12:07] <LaserJock> whatever :p
[12:07] <Spec> i don't :p
[12:32] <deptrai> hello, I'm making a .deb package, but I don't know how to add a new line to /etc/profile
[12:32] <LaserJock> new line in /etc/profile?
[12:32] <deptrai> export GTK_IM_MODULE="xim" <== I just want to add this
[12:32] <deptrai> to change environnement variable
[12:33] <crimsun> no, don't do that.
[12:33] <deptrai> crimsun: what should I do ?
[12:34] <deptrai> because the package need to change environment
[12:34] <deptrai> variable
[12:34] <deptrai> to run correctly
[12:34] <crimsun> deptrai: add a note in README.Debian telling the users to make that change in their own startup files.
[12:34] <crimsun> /etc/{environment,profile} are sacred
[12:34] <deptrai> crimsun: is there anyway to display a message when user install my package ?
[12:35] <deptrai> just for notify them
[12:35] <crimsun> deptrai: yes
[12:35] <deptrai> crimsun: how ?
[12:36] <crimsun> deptrai: there are a few ways, debconf being one
[12:36] <deptrai> :-/
[12:37] <deptrai> crimsun: thanks for the keyword, I'll look around
[12:37] <crimsun> debconf is more than likely overkill
[12:38] <LaserJock> yes
[12:39] <crimsun> zenity, whiptail, ...
[12:43] <jaldhar> don't use debconf or a manual prompt.  Put it in NEWS.Debian
[12:44] <jaldhar> or actually README.Debian now I've read the rest of the conversation
[12:54] <ajmitch> well, looks like #ubuntu is fairly insane still
[12:54] <LaserJock> yep
[12:55] <ajmitch> someone ranting on debian lists again
[12:55] <Arrogance> ajmitch, the natives making you nervous?  ;)
[12:55] <LaserJock> ajmitch: is there a time when somebody isn't
[12:55] <LaserJock> ajmitch: d-d?
[12:55] <ajmitch> LaserJock: ranting about a 'certain brand new debian-like distribution'
[12:55] <ajmitch> & bugs
[12:56] <LaserJock> mwuahahaha
[12:56] <LaserJock> yeah, because of course Debian has not bugs
[01:06] <ajmitch> sigh
[01:06] <LaserJock> what happened now?
[01:06] <ajmitch> sun people sending out announcements about ubuntu on sparc
[01:06] <ajmitch> but the images aren't final yet
[01:07] <LaserJock> so what is sparc used for, I'm not imagining it as your typical desktop arch
[01:08] <ajmitch> servers
[01:08] <ajmitch> and the kernel for the sunfire T1000 has a problem with the network driver
[01:08] <ajmitch> T1000 is one of the new, shiny niagara-based systems
[01:09] <ajmitch> luckily I've got T2000s to play on, which have a different network driver
[01:10] <lucas> hiya
[01:10] <LaserJock> hi lucas
[01:10] <lucas> i wanna join Python Team
[01:10] <LaserJock> go for it
[01:10] <lucas> where?
[01:10] <ajmitch> it's best to join the MOTUs rather than just the python team
[01:11] <lucas> hum
[01:11] <lucas> yeah
[01:11] <lucas> so
[01:11] <lucas> i wanna join the motu ^^
[01:12] <LaserJock> lucas: wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Teams
[01:13] <ajmitch> of course joining the MOTU team just means doing a lot of work for no pay ;)
[01:14] <lucas> of course xD
[01:30] <crimsun> I need about 4 more hours/day
[01:31] <LaserJock> only 4?
[01:31] <LaserJock> I could use 8 I think
[01:37] <ajmitch> crimsun: that time of year?
[01:38] <crimsun> ajmitch: hehe. Well, it seems everything condensed /today/. Dapper release+merging updates+conference call+[...]
[01:38] <ajmitch> ah yes...
[01:38] <ajmitch> you're working on updates now?
[01:39] <crimsun> yeah, got a whole queue :/
[01:40] <ajmitch> :(
[01:40] <ajmitch> I've got a bunch of stuff I need to update as well
[01:41] <ajmitch> great, sounds like I've still got a chance of my sound problem being fixed if it still exists ;)
[01:41] <ajmitch> I haven't been brave enough to test lately
[01:41] <crimsun> the oss/hda bit?
[01:41] <ajmitch> alsa & doom3
[01:42] <ajmitch> intel8x0 driver
[01:42] <crimsun> oh that's right, you're using alsa for it
[01:42] <crimsun> hmm, not snd_hda_intel?
[01:42] <ajmitch> not on this motherboard
[01:42] <crimsun> k
[01:42] <ajmitch> that's for the laptop
[01:42] <ajmitch> where I had the realtek codec issue until you patched it
[01:44] <crimsun> sorry, too many issues running around :-)
[01:44] <ajmitch> yeah :)
[01:48] <ajmitch> well, to do testing actually
[01:49] <crimsun> :-)
[02:11] <bmonty> ajmitch: did you have a chance to look at my kerberos stuff?
[02:12] <ajmitch> at the python wrapper? no, not really
[02:12] <bmonty> I'm curious to hear what other people think of the way I set it up, so any comments are appreciated
[02:14] <ajmitch> ok :)
[02:14] <crimsun> hah!  "It wasn't covered by the generic HP entry because of a hardware bug (the SSID is reversed)."
[02:15] <crimsun> gotta /love/ manufacturers.
[02:15] <ajmitch> bmonty: might as well package it ;)
[02:15] <ajmitch> crimsun: sounds crazy
[02:16] <bmonty> ajmitch: I don't think it is anywhere close to being ready to package
[02:18] <ajmitch> it's not
[02:18] <ajmitch> but I still have an aversion to installing stuff from source
[02:22] <bmonty> ajmitch: it is as simple as "python setup.py install --home=~" and you get the lib in ~/lib/python
[02:26] <ajmitch> I know
[02:27] <ajmitch> I still tend to prefer things tidier ;)
[02:27] <crimsun> hmm, where's fabbione
[02:28] <ajmitch> still in london, I suppose
[02:28] <ajmitch> what sparc breakage are you doing?
[02:29] <crimsun> I just need him or another sparc hero to double{, and triple}-check this free_irq/iounmap fix
[02:30] <crimsun> it makes sense logically, but I would rather have someone better versed in sparc look at it
[02:30] <ajmitch> I don't know the code well enough yet
[02:30] <crimsun> oh wait, benc, duh
[02:39] <crimsun> I love auditing sound/ once I see a quirk :/
[02:40] <LaserJock> bmonty: can you uninstall when you do python setup.py?
[02:43] <ajmitch> LaserJock: rm -rf
[02:44] <LaserJock> that's not very nice
[02:44] <LaserJock> if you do more than one
[02:46] <bmonty> LaserJock: yeah, I think the python setup module can do uninstall
[02:47] <bmonty> I take that back, it doesn't appear to have an uninstall option
[02:47] <LaserJock> :/
[02:47] <bmonty> my code generates a single file, so it isn't that hard to remove :)
[02:47] <LaserJock> I installed bzr on my mac that way but then I got it through fink so I want to uninstall the one I did from source
[03:08] <bddebian> Heya gang
[03:09] <zakame> hi all!
[03:09] <zakame> hi bddebian!
[03:09] <bddebian> Heya zakame
[03:10] <ajmitch> hey zakame
[03:10] <bddebian> ajmitch
[03:10] <LaserJock> hi bddebian
[03:10] <LaserJock> hi zakame
[03:10] <bddebian> Heya LaserJock
[03:10] <ajmitch> bddebian
[03:12] <zakame> hi ajmitch LaserJock
[04:53] <bugnthecode> this room is quiet. any watching?
[04:53] <crimsun> yes, we're just exhausted. What's up?
[04:54] <bugnthecode> well, I just got dapper up and going today, and wanted to get into some linux programming, and more importantly maybe contribute to ubuntu
[04:54] <crimsun> there are some good links in the /topic if you'd like to start there
[04:55] <bugnthecode> would an amateur developer be able to contribute much?
[04:55] <crimsun> absolutely.
[04:55] <LaserJock> bugnthecode: yeah, this place is great for getting started
[04:55] <crimsun> coding's most definitely not the only space for contribution
[04:56] <bugnthecode> I saw on the main ubuntu that there were other ways to contribute like spreading the word, and bug testing
[04:57] <LaserJock> sure
[04:57] <crimsun> yep, #ubuntu-bugs is an /awesome/ place to start, too
[04:57] <LaserJock> basically, whatever your interest is, Ubuntu has a place to get involved, not matter your skill level
[04:58] <bugnthecode> awesome.
[04:58] <bugnthecode> since I'm new to linux development, and team development, are there any tools or specific standards that contributing developers should be using?
[04:59] <crimsun> guidelines are at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources
[04:59] <crimsun> (that may be redirected in a few days to a new location, as I believe there's a wiki migration occurring)
[05:00] <LaserJock> nah, that one will stay
[05:00] <crimsun> for MOTU specifically, REVU is a valuable tool, and you can find out more about that in the wiki's MOTU section
[05:01] <crimsun> LaserJock maintains a packaging guide that you'll find useful
[05:01] <bugnthecode> any "standard" development environments or language standards usually used for linux development?
[05:01] <crimsun> and as always, just ask when you have questions, though it may take a bit for someone to answer as we're all volunteers
[05:02] <crimsun> (well, nearly all volunteers)
[05:02] <LaserJock> bugnthecode: could you be a little more specific with what you want to do?
[05:02] <bddebian> apt-get install build-essential devscripts :-)
[05:02] <LaserJock> bugnthecode: do you want to package programs? or write programs? or fix bugs? or ..
[05:02] <bddebian> bon apetit crimsun :)
[05:02] <bugnthecode> I'm looking to write programs
[05:03] <LaserJock> bugnthecode: ok, so if you want to do GUIs then the most common widget sets are GTK (Gnome) and QT (KDE)
[05:03] <LaserJock> but pretty much any language goes
[05:04] <bugnthecode> and what about fixing bugs?
[05:04] <bddebian> Except Perl.  That's not allowed. ;-P
[05:04] <bugnthecode> lol, not a perl lover?
[05:04] <LaserJock> bddebian: ssssh
[05:04] <LaserJock> bugnthecode: Ubuntu does favor Python somewhat
[05:05] <LaserJock> bugnthecode: we have lots of bug lists and we always need triaging and if you can come up with a patch that's awesome
[05:05] <bugnthecode> I've never gone bug hunting, how would I get started with that. I think I'd like to start there first, instead of full blown development.
[05:06] <LaserJock> bugnthecode: wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad
[05:06] <LaserJock> we have lots to hunt
[05:06] <LaserJock> and the major hangout for bug fixing is #ubuntu-bugs
[05:07] <bugnthecode> thanks!
[05:08] <LaserJock> no problem, that's what we are here for (most of the time) :-)
[05:08] <bugnthecode> out of curiosity, what do you do for ubuntu (besides volunteer to answering my newbie linux questions)?
[05:09] <LaserJock> I'm on the documentation team and on try to help with Edubuntu
[05:09] <bugnthecode> cool
[05:10] <bddebian> I just annoy people :-)
[05:10] <LaserJock> and of course try to fix bugs
[05:10] <LaserJock> I'm a chemist so I try to work on Science packages here
[05:10] <bugnthecode> awesome, I work with a bunch of biochemists
[05:11] <Kyral> I spout random anime references :P
[05:11] <bddebian> heh
[05:11] <Kyral> And now
[05:11] <Kyral> TO THE SHOWER!!
[05:11] <bddebian> Yeah, Kyral might actually be more annoying than me ;-)
[05:12] <LaserJock> Kyral: and get crazy about hurd :-)
[05:12] <Kyral> Jeez, I had to give myself a crash course in Perl today :P
[05:12] <LaserJock> ewwww
[05:12] <Kyral> but really
[05:12] <Kyral> Kyral->shower();
[05:21] <LaserJock> hmm, does free server hosting exist?
[05:30] <LaserJock> hmm, I guess somebody just needs to give me an account on there server ;-)
[05:31] <bugnthecode> lol
[05:31] <bugnthecode> what kind of hosting are you looking for?
[05:32] <LaserJock> well, I'd like to at least have a storage place online
[05:33] <LaserJock> I'm often behind firewalls etc, that make it hard to access stuff
[05:33] <LaserJock> but maybe I'm just being greedy now ;-)
[05:33] <bugnthecode> I've seen some free or really low cost hosting, but they always have that damn limit on bandwidth
[05:33] <bddebian> LaserJock: I have a box I set up to be my archive for Ubuntu/Hurd if you want
[05:34] <LaserJock> bddebian: thanks for the offer but I don't know that I should be taking away from the Hubuntu project :-)
[05:36] <bddebian> I don't know if I'll ever do it.  The Debian folks like Debian and the GNU folks are too zealous for me :-)
[05:36] <LaserJock> I guess I could use the Chemistry department server, but I hate doing that for non-school related stuff
[05:37] <LaserJock> and tiber.tauware.de and doc.ubuntu.com probably wouldn't be appropriate for my little personal playground
[05:37] <LaserJock> if I could access my school computers it wouldn't be so bad
[05:39] <LaserJock> anyway, that is waaay OT
[05:53] <LaserJock> anybody know how to password protect a webpage?
[05:58] <LaserJock> Sp4rKy: could you turn off the public away? thanks.
[06:00] <TheMuso> LaserJock: I am assuming that it has something to do with .htaccess files.
[06:00] <TheMuso> BTW are you excited about Parris?
[06:01] <bddebian> Yeah, you can use .htaccess or there are other methods available
[06:02] <crimsun> bddebian: hehe, thanks
[06:03] <LaserJock> TheMuso: yeah, I got my passport and plane tickets (sort of) so I'm feeling a little more excited
[06:03] <bddebian> crimsun: ?
[06:03] <bddebian> Oh, :-)
[06:04] <LaserJock> hmm, and how do you find space quotas for a user?
[06:04] <LaserJock> sorry for the linux101 here
[06:04] <crimsun> ``quota'' or ``fs quota'' depending on the fs
[06:06] <LaserJock> hmm, no go. Maybe I don't have a quota
[06:08] <LaserJock> yikes, I'm using 1.6GB on the department server
[06:09] <bddebian> heh
[06:11] <LaserJock> I guess I had a /home backup on there, oops
[06:19] <bddebian> Ack, gnight folks
[06:20] <crimsun> 'night bddebian
[06:23] <Sp4rKy> LaserJock, yes i'll do
[06:23] <LaserJock> Sp4rKy: thanks :-)
[06:24] <Sp4rKy> :)
[06:29] <LaserJock> I suppose all the cool people are out at release parties
[06:29] <ajmitch> of course
[06:29] <ajmitch> which is why I'm still here
[06:30] <crimsun> well, bddebian just left, so I guess all the cool people are out :-)
[06:30] <ajmitch> it's just us wannabe developers left
[06:30] <LaserJock> yep
[06:31] <ajmitch> well, wannabes & laserjock
[06:31] <ajmitch> & crimsun
[06:31] <ajmitch> who's special for getting a congrats in the kernel changelog
[06:31] <whiprush_> heh
[06:32] <ajmitch> hey whiprush_
[06:32] <whiprush_> only 18 hours until our release party.
[06:32] <LaserJock> I'm just sitting in the kitchen listening to the wife cooking and trying to clean up computers
[06:33] <ajmitch> hehe
[06:33] <ajmitch> if only I had a wife to cook for me.. :)
[06:34] <LaserJock> well, she is also trying to get me to help ;-)
[06:34] <LaserJock> so I'm "working"
[06:34] <ajmitch> ah yes
[06:34] <whiprush_> man, the digg unix/linux queue is crammed with *buntu stuff.
[06:34] <whiprush_> crazy.
[06:35] <ajmitch> whiprush_: who'd care about that piece of...?
[06:35] <whiprush_> ajmitch: *shrug*
[06:35] <ajmitch> crazy people
[06:35] <whiprush_> ajmitch: that makes you a ROCK STAR.
[06:35] <ajmitch> ah, *finally* twiki lets me register
[06:35] <ajmitch> useless POC
[06:36] <ajmitch> whiprush_: how am I a ROCK STAR?
[06:37] <whiprush_> ajmitch: just felt like fanboing you for a minute. :D
[06:37] <whiprush_> only a minute though, don't push it.
[06:37] <ajmitch> heh
[06:37] <ajmitch> that's a minute longer than I ever deserve :)
[06:38] <ajmitch> now, my activity for the evening is hot, hot SPECS
[06:39] <Kyral> Kyral->bed();
[06:40] <LaserJock> ajmitch: cool, for SoC stuf?
[06:41] <ajmitch> LaserJock: yep
[06:41] <ajmitch> & also non-SoC, I think
[06:41] <ajmitch> time to write up some draft specs
[06:41] <LaserJock> cool
[06:42] <LaserJock> I'd like to do that too, but I'm afraid I don't have much for good ideas
[06:42] <ajmitch> but I need to do network auth with mithrandir tonight, before he goes away for the weekend
[06:42] <ajmitch> jane wants SoC specs by monday
[06:43] <LaserJock> JaneW?
[06:44] <ajmitch> yes
[06:44] <ajmitch> mistress janew, the one with the whip :P
[06:44] <ajmitch> scary person
[06:45] <LaserJock> yes, sadly she won't be here much longer :/
[06:45] <ajmitch> really?
[06:45] <LaserJock> yep
[06:45] <LaserJock> she won't even be in Paris
[06:45] <LaserJock> :(
[06:46] <ajmitch> that's sad
[06:46] <ajmitch> I've noticed a few silent additions to the canonical flock in various areas
[06:46] <LaserJock> yeah, the long hours and frequent trips
[06:46] <ajmitch> like the support team being formed up in montreal
[06:47] <ajmitch> doesn't surprise me that there's some turnover in staff though
[06:48] <ajmitch> canonical doesn't seem like a place where you can slack off ;)
[06:49] <LaserJock> and she has kids, so that's tough
[06:50] <whiprush_> janew is moving on?
[06:50] <ajmitch> yep
[06:50] <ajmitch> whiprush_: you going to be in paris?
[06:50] <whiprush_> no.
[06:50] <ajmitch> ah
[06:50] <ajmitch> neither shall I
[06:50] <ajmitch> only rock stars like LaserJock :)
[06:50] <whiprush_> I'm hitting the ubucon they're doing after LWE in san francisco though.
[06:50] <LaserJock> \o/
[06:51] <LaserJock> whiprush_: I was planning on that too
[06:51] <whiprush_> LaserJock: sweet.
[06:51] <LaserJock> I live ~ 4hrs drive from there
[06:51] <ajmitch> whiprush_: got anything cool queued for the fridge?
[06:51] <crimsun> we're missing out on ponies in Paris :((
[06:52] <ajmitch> LaserJock: nice, I'm only about 14 hours flight from SF :)
[06:52] <whiprush_> ajmitch: no, I've been slacking.
[06:52] <ajmitch> it's great being in NZ, far away from anywhere & anyone
[06:52] <ajmitch> having to pay exorbitant amounts :)
[06:52] <ajmitch> crimsun: no ponies?
[06:52] <whiprush_> spending too much time at work. :-/
[06:52] <ajmitch> never a good sign
[06:53] <whiprush_> well, it's all linux stuff, so it's mostly self inflicted.
[06:53] <LaserJock> ajmitch: but you guys had UDU
[06:54] <ajmitch> we did
[06:54] <ajmitch> and we also have LCA in our region
[06:54] <whiprush_> ajmitch: today I had what I call a "cool" emergency ... one of the windows labs blew up so the prof had to move it at the last minute to our new dapper lab.
[06:54] <ajmitch> this year being better than most for LCA
[06:54] <ajmitch> whiprush_: haha, nice
[06:54] <whiprush_> So I stayed after to help students learn the new stuff.
[06:54] <whiprush_> took all night, but rewarding.
[06:55] <ajmitch> what new stuff did you have to show?
[06:55] <whiprush_> well, some commercial CAD apps on amd64.
[06:55] <whiprush_> I was supposed to test it all summer, but it was either cancel it or send 40 people home.
[06:55] <whiprush_> so we just let them loose on the dapper lab.
[06:56] <whiprush_> ended up working great.
[06:56] <ajmitch> you using ldap/kerberos there? :)
[06:56] <whiprush_> all those little memory optimizations add up when you have all of them on one server
[06:56] <whiprush_> ajmitch: yep. :D
[06:56] <ajmitch> cool
[06:57] <ajmitch> give me your feature requests, your problems..
[06:57] <whiprush_> printing even worked ootb, I didn't expect that.
[06:57] <LaserJock> I talked to the deparment sys admin (a CS major) and he said that our uni got rid of most of the linux lab :(
[06:57] <ajmitch> LaserJock: typical
[06:57] <whiprush_> ajmitch: I've requisitioned some servers and planned to throw them into your SoC testing cause.
[06:57] <ajmitch> whiprush_: you are my hero
[06:58] <whiprush_> ajmitch: yeah, not ready soon, but probably by the time you're ready to test.
[06:58] <LaserJock> ajmitch: what do you need testing for?
[06:58] <ajmitch> LaserJock: ldap+kerberos client & server setup
[06:59] <ajmitch> bmonty has also offered to sacrifice a few chickens for the cause
[06:59] <LaserJock> hehe
[06:59] <LaserJock> dang it, sometimes I wish I was a CS major so this could be more than a 40hr a week hobby :-)
[07:00] <ajmitch> hehe
[07:00] <whiprush_> I am starting my CS masters in the fall, not looking forward to it.
[07:00] <ajmitch> whiprush_: interesting, what in?
[07:00] <crimsun> I think if you were a CS major, you'd quickly wish for something different ;-)
[07:01] <whiprush_> they just started a more practical program at my U, less math/theory, more practical deployment/networking stuff.
[07:01] <whiprush_> It's more of an "IT" type course, but under CS.
[07:01] <ajmitch> nice
[07:01] <ajmitch> sounds like some of the telecommunications stuff here
[07:01] <LaserJock> I'm 4 years into my PhD so I think it is a little late to switch majors :-)
[07:02] <ajmitch> which I've been involved with
[07:02] <ajmitch> LaserJock: never!
[07:02] <whiprush_> ajmitch: yeah my undergrad is in telecomm.
[07:02] <crimsun> LaserJock: just get another
[07:02] <ajmitch> I'm sure his wife would love that
[07:02] <LaserJock> I've been thinking about the possibility of working for a chemistry software company
[07:02] <LaserJock> ajmitch: I'd be dead, not doubt about it
[07:03] <crimsun> your wife won't allow you to work for a software development firm?
[07:03] <ajmitch> I think the death threats would be from doing another PHD
[07:03] <whiprush_> ajmitch: they offer some undergrad "open source" classes, but they're not very good.
[07:04] <whiprush_> in our area the top oss-friendly programs are at the university of michigan, which has a program I could never get into.
[07:04] <crimsun> oh man, I'm being dragged away from my research this summer to teach a course on Linux fundamentals. I am totally bringing ponies.
[07:05] <ajmitch> crimsun: take some ponies to paris
[07:05] <ajmitch> smuggle them through customs
[07:05] <whiprush_> If only we had a linux course. I'm having a hard time dragging our greybeard UNIX faculty away from solaris 8.
[07:05] <crimsun> ajmitch: I'm not able to go, which is why we're missing out :/
[07:05] <ajmitch> crimsun: oh :(
[07:05] <ajmitch> chronic pony shortage then
[07:06] <whiprush_> crimsun: what are is your research in?
[07:07] <whiprush_> crimsun: area I mean.
[07:07] <crimsun> whiprush_: grid computing, but this summer I'm messing with autonomous agents
[07:07] <whiprush_> sounds neat.
[07:08] <crimsun> I'm quickly learning that while C++ is nice for simulations, I really miss Python
[07:09] <whiprush_> heh I was about to say "I'd kill for a new faculty guy who was hot on python."
 :D
[07:11] <tuxmaniac> crimsun: I am planning to do a masters cum Phd on Embedded Systems.. Is there any sugestion for me?
[07:11] <ajmitch> how I wish I had people begging me for that ;)
[07:11] <ajmitch> tuxmaniac: lots of caffeine
[07:12] <tuxmaniac> ajmitch: heh. I wanted on some University
[07:12] <crimsun> tuxmaniac: hmm, any specifics?
[07:12] <tuxmaniac> Embedded Linux RTOS etc
[07:12] <tuxmaniac> I meant the device driver layer
[07:12] <tuxmaniac> crimsun: ^
[07:13] <crimsun> tuxmaniac: the European universities are much hotter into that than most US ones, particularly German and Dutch ones
[07:13] <tuxmaniac> crimsun: hmmm..
[07:13] <crimsun> on the other hand, UIUC has a great program for EE/CE/CS
[07:14] <tuxmaniac> crimsun: hmm.. great! But euro univs dont provide financial asistance to international students if i am right?
[07:14] <crimsun> tuxmaniac: honestly I don't know
[07:15] <ajmitch> TheMuso: it's not needed :)
[07:15] <TheMuso> I am just finishing off a TAFE course here n Aus for IT stuff. Just to get the piece of paper saying that I am capable etc etc.
[07:16] <crimsun> hmph, tauneutrino isn't online, else I'd refer you to her. She's a Buffalo grad who got her M.S. from UTwente
[07:16] <TheMuso> The field I intend to get into doesn't have any official certification as far as I know, but I am not interested in doing research. :)
[07:17] <crimsun> tuxmaniac: if you're based out of the US, there may be an exchange program
[07:17] <crimsun> and you can always scour for a prof going on sabbatical to another country
[07:18] <tuxmaniac> crimsun: thanks. But am from INDIA
[07:18] <crimsun> are you based out of IIT?
[07:45] <dholbach> good morning, party folks! :-)
[07:46] <Gloubiboulga> hey dholbach!
[07:46] <dholbach> hey Gloubiboulga
[07:46] <LaserJock> dholbach!
[07:47] <ajmitch> dholbach!
[07:47] <dholbach> heya LaserJock, ajmitch!
[07:47] <ajmitch> how are you?
[07:48] <dholbach> just waking up and soon digging into gnome 2.14.x for dapper-updates
[07:48] <ajmitch> excellent
[07:48] <ajmitch> then I get get the new 2.6.17 crack
[07:49] <ajmitch> or I could just build from git
[07:49] <TheMuso> ajmitch: Me too.
[07:50] <TheMuso> I usually wait a few months before jumping abord the new release, but since I intend to get much more heavily involved from now on, I'll be running edgy on everything but a few machines that I need a working system on. :)
[07:52] <dholbach> after that i'll be on dapper everywhere too :-)
[07:54] <TheMuso> dapper, or edgy?
[07:59] <LaserJock> time fo bed for me, good night all
[08:00] <LaserJock> have a wonderful day
[08:00] <LaserJock> and thanks for all the work, you guys (and Hobbsee) rock!
[08:05] <Toadstool> heya motus
[08:07] <ajmitch> hi
[08:08] <Gloubiboulga> morning Toadstool
[08:08] <Toadstool> hi ajmitch & Gloubiboulga
[08:45] <kagou> hi
[08:45] <Toadstool> hi kagou
[08:45] <kagou> hello Toadstool
[08:50] <AnAnt> when will the repos for the new ubuntu (one after dapper) open ?
[08:51] <Hobbsee> hi all
[08:51] <TheMuso> Whenever the core devs open it.
[08:51] <TheMuso> Hey Hobbsee.
[08:51] <TheMuso> What a damn miserable day.
[08:51] <Hobbsee> edgy released?  2 days after the last person asked.
[08:51] <TheMuso> Here in Sydney at least. :)
[08:51] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: so true.
[08:52] <AnAnt> did you guys modify in the kernel ?
[08:52] <AnAnt> I mean add drivers
[08:52] <Mithrandir> yes
[08:52] <tuxmaniac> AnAnt: yes. you mean from the vanilla one?
[08:53] <Mithrandir> hi Hobbsee, TheMuso
[08:53] <AnAnt> because I just tried 2.6.16 kernel & it can't detect my TI card reader
[08:53] <AnAnt> I got the 2.6.16 from Debian
[08:53] <AnAnt> I got the 2.6.16 from Debian's source package
[08:53] <AnAnt> I mean from debian one
[08:53] <TheMuso> 2.6.16 needs a newer udev than the one in dapper.
[08:53] <tuxmaniac> yes. Ubuntu-kernel team have done a lot of kernel additions
[08:53] <tuxmaniac> AnAnt: ^
[08:53] <AnAnt> ic
[08:53] <Hobbsee> hi Mithrandir
[08:53] <tuxmaniac> especially on this udev intereaction
[08:54] <TheMuso> as far as I understand from Scott's emails to the dev list re the 2.6.16 thread.
[08:54] <tuxmaniac> Mithrandir: Am i right?
[08:54] <TheMuso> Hi Mithrandir.
[08:54] <AnAnt> well, I wanted the 2.6.16 to operate an MMCplus device
[08:54] <tuxmaniac> AnAnt: hm..
[08:54] <AnAnt> so, I think the solution is to use the kernel source from ubuntu's repos then apply the patch for mmcplus
[08:55] <Mithrandir> AnAnt: probably.
[08:55] <tuxmaniac> peerfect.. See mmcplus drivers are already built into the kern first
[08:55] <Mithrandir> tuxmaniac: unsure, I don't watch the udev/kernel stuff too closely.
[08:55] <AnAnt> tuxmaniac: huh?
[08:55] <tuxmaniac> Mithrandir: aah OK
[08:55] <tuxmaniac> AnAnt: naah.. forget it
[08:56] <AnAnt> how can I download a patch for a certain kernel file ?
[08:57] <TheMuso> According to an email I have from the dev list here re the 2.6.16 stuff, 2.6.16 has sysfs filesystem structure changes, and udev itself has changed somewhat for newer kernels.
[08:58] <tuxmaniac> 2.6.16 still not up on the repos on Ubuntu. its still 2.6.15-23.35
[08:58] <tuxmaniac> benc is still testing it..
[08:58] <AnAnt> tuxmaniac: yeah, unfortunately
[08:58] <AnAnt> tuxmaniac: you mean it's on REVU ?
[08:58] <TheMuso> I think edgy will be going straight to 2.6.17-rc
[08:59] <tuxmaniac> some probs on IA64 arch
[08:59] <tuxmaniac> If I remember right
[08:59] <crimsun> yes, edgy is 2.6.17-git atm
[08:59] <tuxmaniac> AnAnt: which part of India are you from?
[08:59] <AnAnt> tuxmaniac: none
[08:59] <Mithrandir> tuxmaniac: our 2.6.15 is almost upstream 2.6.16, though.
[08:59] <crimsun> dapper will remain 2.6.15ish
[08:59] <tuxmaniac> Mithrandir: yeah agreed
[09:01] <highvoltage> sorry, just lame joke :)
[09:02] <tuxmaniac> Mithrandir: Btw then no more releases on the 2.6.16-X
[09:03] <tuxmaniac> for dapper?
[09:03] <tuxmaniac> edgy will directly be on a 2.6.17 ? I dint know this
[09:04] <AnAnt> is it possible to get the new kernel version thru dapper-backports ?
[09:04] <crimsun> not yet, considering edgy isn't even active
[09:04] <crimsun> that would/will be a maintenance nightmare, too
[09:05] <AnAnt> I mean, when it becomes active
[09:05] <crimsun> I don't know; I think it may be discussed in Paris
[09:06] <tuxmaniac> crimsun: going too?
[09:06] <crimsun> tuxmaniac: no, work has me here
[09:06] <tuxmaniac> crimsun: I have some company then :-)
[09:07] <AnAnt> I hope Edgy will have PREEMPT  kernel
[09:07] <TheMuso> Dapper already does.
[09:07] <AnAnt> it made my simulations faster
[09:07] <AnAnt> TheMuso: yeah, that's why I hope Edgy will continue with that
[09:08] <crimsun> it is highly unlikely that preempt support will be removed from the desktop kernels
[09:09] <AnAnt> cool
[09:10] <AnAnt> is the splash image that appears during booting something put in the kernel ?
[09:10] <Mithrandir> no
[09:10] <AnAnt> oh
[09:11] <Mithrandir> it's entirely userspace and done by usplash
[09:11] <AnAnt> because I didn't the splash image when I booted with 2.6.16 kernel that I compiled
[09:11] <tuxmaniac> if you custom compile a kernel it goes off
[09:11] <AnAnt> why's that?
[09:11] <tuxmaniac> you have to configure it back
[09:12] <crimsun> that's because you probably didn't update your initramfs for your custom kernel (if you in fact have initr* support enabled)
[09:12] <tuxmaniac> Yeah.. I do have
[09:14] <tuxmaniac> crimsun: What do I have to do to get it back?
[09:14] <crimsun> update-initramfs [-u]
[09:14] <AnAnt> crimsun: ok, let's say I get the 2.6.15 kernel source from dapper's repos, and apply a patch & recompile, I still have to do that update thing ?
[09:14] <tuxmaniac> But for sure there is something wrong with the udev <-> kernel thing
[09:15] <crimsun> AnAnt: yes, though if you use the Ubuntu packaging infrastructure it's done automatically
[09:15] <tuxmaniac> when you custom compile 2.6.16 stuff
[09:15] <crimsun> tuxmaniac: yep, known
[09:15] <tuxmaniac> hmm..
[09:15] <AnAnt> crimsun: what do you mean by Ubuntu packaging infrastructure ? you mean like use make-kpkg ?
[09:16] <crimsun> AnAnt: meaning if a deb is generated
[09:16] <crimsun> (yes, using make-kpkg)
[09:16] <AnAnt> crimsun: yes, it was generated & I installed the deb file
[09:16] <AnAnt> crimsun: that's what I did with 2.6.16 too
[09:24] <AnAnt> thx
[09:32] <opse3> what is the dapper equivalent of breezy's nvidia-glx?
[09:33] <crimsun> nvidia-glx
[09:35] <opse3> oh, ok, but now there's another problem: if i want to install it (on breezy, in order to upgrade to dapper), it says it want to remove the following packages: nvidia-settings, x-common, xorg-common, xserver-common, busybox-cvs-initramfs
[09:35] <opse3> crimsun ^
[09:35] <opse3> crimsun: should i accept that?
[09:35] <opse3> crimsun: and, if so, what is the equivalent of nvidia-settings in dapper?
[09:37] <opse3> it wants*
[09:38] <crimsun> none of those are absolutely necessary
[09:38] <crimsun> (they're all purged on my system, for instance)
[09:38] <sladen> opse3: let it do its magic
[09:38] <crimsun> and the equivalent is, unsurprisingly enough, nvidia-settings :-)
[09:39] <sladen> opse3: and then file a bug regarding the fact that 'nvidia-glx' Conflicts: nvidia-settings
[09:39] <sladen> (most likely reason is that nvidia-glx now contains that binary)
[09:39] <ajmitch> sladen: correct, and nvidia-settings should be removed
[09:40] <ajmitch> the latest update-manager should handle these cases now
[09:40] <opse3> ajmitch: then why does dapper also include nvidia-settings (as crimsun just noted) and as i also just noticed in my synaptic?
[09:40] <opse3> ajmitch: then why does dapper also include nvidia-settings (as crimsun just noted and as i also just noticed in my synaptic)?*
[09:41] <opse3> ajmitch: is update-manager better than apt-get upgrade?
[09:41] <ajmitch> yes, update-manager is the recommended upgrade path
[09:41] <ajmitch> iirc
[09:41] <ajmitch> and I don't know why nvidia-settings is still in the repository for dapper
[09:43] <Hobbsee|Icicle> hi ajmitch and opse3
[09:43] <opse3> ajmitch: but i must do the upgrade in more sessions
[09:43] <ajmitch> hi
[09:43] <opse3> ajmitch: update-manager doesn't allow me to select which packages to upgrade at a time
[09:43] <opse3> Hobbsee|Icicle: hi
[10:07] <ajmitch> morning \sh
[11:05] <imbrandon> ajmitch ping
[11:06] <ajmitch> imbrandon: yes?
[11:06] <imbrandon> heya are you familiar with building a pkg for revu ?
[11:06] <ajmitch> yes
[11:06] <imbrandon> i have the package bulding fine with debuild the way i like but dont i need to build it with -S or -S -sa for revu ?
[11:07] <Hobbsee> mmm...dinner...
[11:07] <imbrandon> i've never done a revu before
[11:07] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: yes you do
[11:07] <ajmitch> you must build with -S -sa
[11:07] <imbrandon> ok -S -sa kk thanks , i think i got the rest down pat
[11:08] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: means include sources
[11:08] <imbrandon> ahh
[11:08] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: write a shell script for it - it's quicker.
[11:08] <imbrandon> its only one perl file and one conf file so the src would be included anyhow hehehe but yea
[11:09] <ajmitch> having source included != source debian package
[11:09] <ajmitch> since we need to review the debian/ dir
[11:09] <imbrandon> yea ajmitch i got it, i just meant in general
[11:09] <imbrandon> kinda brain fart
[11:09] <imbrandon> as far as pure source that is
[11:11] <ajmitch> Mithrandir: ping
[11:14] <\sh> jo
[11:14] <ajmitch> hi \sh
[11:14] <Mithrandir> ajmitch: can we delay until the hour?
[11:14] <ajmitch> sure
[11:53] <opse3> what is the name of the app that checks all orphans which {{{{don't belong to the official ubuntu selection anyway and so they}}} can be safely removed?
[11:53] <opse3> the "{{{{don't belong to the official ubuntu selection anyway and so they}}}" is mandatory
[12:04] <ajmitch> alright.
[12:07] <imbrandon> opse3, deborphan ?
[12:12] <sivang> I will help you over the package
[12:12] <sivang> is it a python tol?
[12:14] <imbrandon> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2352   <--- if any MOTU's wanna have a look for me
[12:15] <ajmitch> Mithrandir: free now?
[12:17] <ajmitch> hey schweeb
[12:17] <ajmitch> imbrandon: so this is something that someone else has done, and you've just made a couple of changes?
[12:17] <imbrandon> ajmitch yes , and its currently not in debian or dapper ( would like to target edgy )
[12:18] <imbrandon> the official one can be found at http://apt-mirror.sf.net
[12:18] <Mithrandir> ajmitch: hiya
[12:18] <Mithrandir> ajmitch: sorry about the delay
[12:18] <ajmitch> then you'd need to fix the version numbers such that it's -0ubuntu1 or similar
[12:18] <imbrandon> ok , wasent sure on that since it wasent in debian
[12:19] <ajmitch> Mithrandir: alright, no problem :)
[12:19] <imbrandon> is there a way to fix that upload or just reupload ?
[12:20] <ajmitch> imbrandon: reupload, and the upstream should be educated as to what an orig.tar.gz is
[12:20] <imbrandon> ok
[12:21] <ajmitch> Mithrandir: where shall we start?
[12:21] <Mithrandir> ajmitch: you've been speccing out some more, haven't you?
[12:22] <ajmitch> yes, it's not up on the wiki
[12:22] <ajmitch> a few changes locally
[12:22] <Mithrandir> also, should we discuss this here or in #ubuntu-networkauth or something?
[12:22] <Mithrandir> gobby works for me, I just need to install it
[12:30] <imbrandon> ajmitch : ok re-uploaded http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2353
[12:43] <opse3> imbrandon: i don't think deborphan has any idea what an official dapper must include by default.
[01:34] <TheMuso> If one uses qemu tools to create a vmdk, how does one then create the vmx file for vmware-player?
[01:35] <imbrandon> TheMuso, by hand with nano or such
[01:35] <imbrandon> its justa txt file
[01:35] <TheMuso> But what do you put in it?
[01:35] <TheMuso> c
[01:35] <TheMuso> ....not that. :)
[01:35] <imbrandon> one sec
[01:36] <imbrandon> here is an online form to build one for you
[01:36] <imbrandon> http://www.easyvmx.com/expertform.shtml
[01:36] <imbrandon> then you can tweak it with <fav txt editor here> as needed
[01:37] <TheMuso> Thanks.
[01:40] <zul> heylo
[01:52] <imbrandon> heya zul
[01:53] <zul> hey imbrandon
[01:54] <ajmitch> zul!
[01:54] <zul> stalker!
[01:54] <ajmitch> heh
[01:54] <imbrandon> lol
[01:59] <HiddenHobbsee> hey zul
[03:21] <opse3> what is the name of the app that checks all orphans which {{{{don't belong to the official ubuntu selection anyway and so they}}} can be safely removed?
[03:22] <opse3> the "{{{{don't belong to the official ubuntu selection anyway and so they}}}" is mandatory
[03:33] <havoc> morning
[03:34] <havoc> so, what's the state of ubuntu *writing* to NTFS partitions, like in a bual-coot env?
[03:35] <opse3> havoc: maybe you mean reading, not writing.
[03:36] <havoc> nope, I want to write
[03:36] <havoc> reading isn't a problem
[03:36] <thierryn> ajmitch : can you change the topic now that dapper has been released?
[03:36] <havoc> I've heard of 'captive', which apparently uses ntfs.sys directly or something
[03:39] <opse3> havoc: iirc, there are legal issues with captive
[03:39] <havoc> ah
[03:40] <opse3> havoc: however, maybe you should ask on #ubuntu-devel
[03:40] <havoc> I was just curious
[03:40] <opse3> havoc: there may be some unofficial repos that include this, though
[03:40] <opse3> thierryn: what would need to be changed in the current topic?
[03:40] <havoc> figured ajmitch, ogra, or chillywilly might have something to say about it, but they're not here right now
[03:44] <thierryn> opse3 : to remove the fact that we are in feature freeze and say something like "yeah we realeased dapper drake!"
[03:54] <opse3> thierryn: oh, hadn't noticed that
[03:55] <bddebian> Heya gang
[03:56] <havoc> bddebian: hiya
[03:56] <bddebian> Hello havoc
[03:58] <havoc> I may *finally* install ubuntu (on my vaio), now that I've finally figured out how to replace the hdd
[03:58] <bddebian> Great
[03:58] <havoc> got a 120gb hdd coming today :)
[04:37] <tuxmaniac> bddebian: booo
[04:37] <tuxmaniac> heya gang
[04:40] <bddebian> Heh, hi tuxmaniac
[04:40] <tuxmaniac> bddebian: howdy
[04:40] <tuxmaniac> bddebian: brb
[04:40] <tuxmaniac> am outside
[04:41] <tuxmaniac> see ya
[04:46] <LaserJock> morning people
[04:46] <Hobbsee> hey LaserJock
[04:47] <LaserJock> Hobbsee!
[04:47] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: :)
[04:47] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: you do any Dapper partying last night?
[04:47] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: i did not - i found a kubuntu user today though
[04:47] <Hobbsee> didnt party :(
[04:47] <LaserJock> me neither
[04:48] <LaserJock> I just hung out here
[04:48] <LaserJock> gosh, we are boring :-)
[04:51] <StevenK> I had to get home, otherwise I would have gone out and watched other people drink beer.
[04:52] <Hobbsee> hehe
[04:54] <StevenK> Hobbsee: You?  ;-P
[06:07] <Hobbsee> bddebian: whyever so, hehe?
[06:07] <bddebian> Hobbsee: Because he mocks me because I'm st00pid
[06:07] <Hobbsee> ah :P
[06:07] <Hobbsee> oh yes, from above
[06:11] <tuxmaniac> hi jpatrick
[06:11] <tuxmaniac> how are you?
[06:11] <jpatrick> hi tuxmaniac
[06:11] <tuxmaniac> jpatrick: Long time no see..  Just that dapper has made life simple and not testing my hcking skills. :-)
[06:15] <thierryn> If I want to update my chroot, do I put edgy as the distribution?
[06:16] <bddebian> thierryn: AFAIK, edgy repo isn't open yet
[06:16] <thierryn> k thanks
[06:43] <Tonio_> hi
[06:48] <bddebian> Heya Tonio_
[06:48] <Tonio_> hey bddebian :)
[07:19] <Kyral_Laptop> It works...
[07:19] <Kyral_Laptop> hehe
[07:19] <Kyral_Laptop> the perl rewrite of my script :D
[09:34] <WolfPython> hi,
[09:35] <WolfPython> I need some getting started with packaging.
[09:36] <Bluekuja> WolfPython, http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/
[09:36] <WolfPython> Can you guys give me some advise on where to start? Any recommended doc or book to read?
[09:36] <Bluekuja> http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer/column/libpkg-guide/libpkg-guide.html   for libraries
[09:37] <Bluekuja> read also debian policy and so on, anyway it's all linked in New Maint guide document
[09:38] <WolfPython> Wow. So it is true! You guys ARE really help full. Thank you. I will look into all of those.
[09:38] <Bluekuja> ok great :)
[09:38] <WolfPython> Does the motu-school a live?
[09:38] <WolfPython> I read it in the archives
[09:39] <Bluekuja> do you mean motu-school team?
[09:39] <Bluekuja> or what?
[09:40] <WolfPython> yes. sorry
[09:40] <Bluekuja> anyway if you have problems with packaging just ask and someone will answer you as soon as possible
[09:42] <crimsun> WolfPython: start with the packaging guide
[09:42] <Bluekuja> http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html
[09:42] <Bluekuja> here it is
[09:42] <WolfPython> ok. thank you.:)
[09:43] <crimsun> WolfPython: the school hasn't been active in some months due to everyone being busy
[09:43] <Bluekuja> it's a very nice guide, it will be easier to start with
[09:43] <siretart> hey crimsun
[09:43] <crimsun> hullo siretart
[09:43] <siretart> crimsun: do you happen to know if darren salt ircs?
[09:43] <crimsun> siretart: I don't know, sorry
[09:44] <siretart> I don't think so, but I'm not sure either
[09:46] <WolfPython> curimsun: Is there a mailing list to subscribe so I will not miss it when it gets active?
[09:47] <crimsun> WolfPython: ubuntu-motu
[09:47] <WolfPython> Thank you
[10:11] <bddebian> Later gang
[10:11] <crimsun> cya bddebian
[10:11] <bddebian> Later crimsun
[10:25] <Kyral_Laptop> hmm
[10:25] <Kyral_Laptop> I'm gonna have to block glibc upgrades on my server
[10:26] <Kyral_Laptop> Xen no like the glibc in the repos
[10:28] <LaserJock> hi \sh
[10:29] <\sh> re
[10:34] <Kyral_Laptop> ...and I also have to recompile gcc...
[10:34] <Kyral_Laptop> Sometimes Sarge is a PAIN
[10:43] <crimsun> um...ok...so is {s,}he going to join?
[10:43] <crimsun> oh good
[10:43] <Kyral_Laptop> huh?
[10:43] <LaserJock> don't know
[10:44] <crimsun> neuRo] : what LaserJock is referring to is that you need deb-src lines uncommented in /etc/apt/sources.list
[10:44] <Kyral_Laptop> Actually you don't...
[10:44] <Kyral_Laptop> Oh can I make a suggestion. For Edgy if we want to include Xen, we are gonna have to recompile Glibc
[10:44] <Kyral_Laptop> or change its compile flags
[10:45] <neuRo] > i am on windows right now, i'm abut to install ubuntu on a new partition and i want to get the source-code so i can play with the os
[10:45] <neuRo] > or read it.. whichever.
[10:45] <Kyral_Laptop> ah then you do
[10:45] <LaserJock> neuRo] : it is much easier once you install it
[10:45] <Kyral_Laptop> an...dude....unless you like ASM lol
[10:45] <Yagisan> Kyral_Laptop: I like ASM
[10:45] <neuRo] > asm is great.
[10:46] <Kyral_Laptop> ...you are freaks...
[10:46] <crimsun> neuRo] : the source packages are available at any mirror: http://somemirror/ubuntu/pool/
[10:46] <crimsun> neuRo] : however, you can also retrieve the source using links from http://packages.ubuntu.com/src:package
[10:46] <neuRo] > all i see is a ton of folders with deb files
[10:46] <Yagisan> Kyral_Laptop: I learned to code in ASM
[10:46] <neuRo] > not source.
[10:46] <crimsun> neuRo] : by far the easiest way [once you're running Ubuntu]  is to enable the deb-src lines and then ``apt-get source package''
[10:47] <Yagisan> neuRo] : look carefully. that is the source
[10:47] <neuRo] > there's no way to just download the entire OS's source with all of the c/c++ files intact at once
[10:47] <neuRo] > without this whole annoying package/deb/whatever stuff
[10:47] <Kyral_Laptop> The entire OS
[10:47] <Kyral_Laptop> is HOW many packages?!
[10:47] <crimsun> neuRo] : red hat provides that, iirc
[10:47] <neuRo] > i don't care how many packages there are
[10:47] <Kyral_Laptop> .....
[10:47] <Kyral_Laptop> and the mirror is HOW big?!
[10:48] <Kyral_Laptop> On the scale of a couple hundred GB for the source?
[10:48] <neuRo] > i just want everything in a folder like /dev/ubuntusrc or something
[10:48] <crimsun> neuRo] : currently no Ubuntu archive distributes an image that you're asking for
[10:48] <LaserJock> neuRo] : hmm, that would take a lot of time and bandwith
[10:48] <crimsun> we're talking something like 110 GB
[10:48] <Yagisan> neuRo] : you'd need to make it yourself then
[10:48] <Kyral_Laptop> and you do realize that Ubuntu is a Linux Distro, Ubuntu != Linux :P
[10:49] <Kyral_Laptop> err
[10:49] <Kyral_Laptop> wait
[10:49] <neuRo] > the source-code for the latest of each of these packages all extracted to simple C/C++ code wouldn't possibly encompass more than 10 GB
[10:49] <Kyral_Laptop> damn that has two trues
[10:49] <Kyral_Laptop> neuRo] : they all aren't in C
[10:49] <Kyral_Laptop> You have every language represented
[10:49] <crimsun> neuRo] : yes, but you asked for the distro+source code, which is precisely what "pool" is.
[10:49] <Yagisan> neuRo] : you'd be so wrong, it's not funny
[10:49] <neuRo] > i just want the C stuff.
[10:49] <Kyral_Laptop> ...
[10:49] <Kyral_Laptop> That would take one HELL of a grep
[10:49] <neuRo] > why the hell would you guys go and overcomplicate everything?
[10:50] <Kyral_Laptop> why am I getting suspcious?
[10:50] <crimsun> neuRo] : what you want is orig.tar.gz+diff.gz for every package offered
[10:50] <Yagisan> neuRo] : we don't. you have an unreasonable request
[10:50] <LaserJock> neuRo] : that is very hard to determine, we have thousands of packages from thousands of authors
[10:50] <Kyral_Laptop> You do realize that whatever you do with them you have to abide by their licenses
[10:50] <neuRo] > i want the source to the distro, not to every package you can download for the distro
[10:50] <Kyral_Laptop> ....
[10:50] <Kyral_Laptop> Oh that is a good one
[10:50] <neuRo] > you guys just don't understand.
[10:50] <crimsun> neuRo] : ok, what are you calling "distro?"
[10:50] <LaserJock> neuRo] : the distro is made up of thousands of packages
[10:51] <\sh> it's not BSD
[10:51] <Yagisan> neuRo] : are you high ?
[10:51] <Kyral_Laptop> I am VERY suspcious now
[10:51] <crimsun> neuRo] : are you referring to the live cd that you can install?
[10:51] <Kyral_Laptop> I want to know what he wants them for
[10:51] <Yagisan> theft ?
[10:51] <crimsun> a leaked beta iso?
[10:51] <\sh> emerge ubuntu
[10:51] <Kyral_Laptop> We already give them away via GPL and the various FSF license
[10:52] <Yagisan> sorry, I meant forking without the copyright notices attached
[10:52] <crimsun> neuRo] : if you would clarify what you mean by "distro," that would help.
[10:52] <crimsun> we think of "distro" as the entire "pool" of available packages.
[10:52] <neuRo] > i'd like them because i would very much like to be able to modify anything in the OS i'm using
[10:52] <crimsun> what is "them"?
[10:53] <Kyral_Laptop> The funny part is that you can apt-get install gentoo
[10:53] <\sh> hum?
[10:53] <neuRo] > them = source
[10:53] <LaserJock> Kyral_Laptop: but it is a file manager :-)
[10:53] <crimsun> source to what, all possible packages or just the ones on the live/install cd?
[10:53] <\sh> neuRo] : man debmirror
[10:53] <neuRo] > the ones that come with the install
[10:53] <Yagisan> Kyral_Laptop: yeah. that file manager was around a long time before the gentoo distro was
[10:53] <Kyral_Laptop> Someone just give him a link to the GNU Website
[10:53] <Kyral_Laptop> Yagisan: I know :P
[10:53] <Kyral_Laptop> or if he really wants source
[10:53] <\sh> neuRo] : apt-get source debian-installer
[10:53] <crimsun> neuRo] : then you'll want to look at what's seeded and just retrieve the orig.tar.gz+diff.gz for those packages
[10:54] <Kyral_Laptop> You THINK?
[10:54] <Kyral_Laptop> lol
[10:55] <Kyral_Laptop> No MS Cloak :P
[10:55] <LaserJock> neuRo] : the problem is that the code isn't one big pile of source code, each app has it's own source
[10:56] <Yagisan> Kyral_Laptop: well, I'd need to get a picture, as looking at LOTR I don't think their fingers could type, but I may be wrong
[10:56] <Kyral_Laptop> ...
[10:56] <Kyral_Laptop> Yagisan: that was horrible
[10:56] <Yagisan> Kyral_Laptop: thank you.
[10:56] <neuRo] > i know
[10:57] <neuRo] > i don't want the source for all the apps like the notepad/word processor/etc
[10:57] <Kyral_Laptop> If you want the Kernel source
[10:57] <neuRo] > just the OS itself, the desktop and what runs what you see
[10:57] <Kyral_Laptop> www.kernel.org
[10:57] <Kyral_Laptop> I think he fails to see the non-definition of OS here
[10:57] <\sh> neuRo] : debmirror and put in as section "main"
[10:57] <Yagisan> neuRo] : we sent you a link to all the source of the OS
[10:57] <crimsun> neuRo] : look at the source package ubuntu-meta, and in particular, look inside ubuntu-meta at ubuntu-desktop
[10:57] <Kyral_Laptop> GNU/Linux is the OS
[10:58] <Kyral_Laptop> Ubuntu is a flavor
[10:58] <Yagisan> bbl
[10:59] <\sh> Kyral_Laptop: it's named "Linux" not GNU/Linux.
[10:59] <\sh> the kernel actually
[10:59] <Kyral_Laptop> yes
[10:59] <Kyral_Laptop> and the Kernel + all the other stuff is...?
[10:59] <Kyral_Laptop> GNU/Linux :P
[10:59] <Kyral_Laptop> and lets not have this fight :P
[11:00] <LaserJock> I really couldn't care less what it's called :-)
[11:00] <LaserJock> I just know Ubuntu rocks
[11:01] <LaserJock> neuRo] : the problem is that you are still looking at trying to get the source for hundreds of packages
[11:01] <\sh> Kyral_Laptop: hehe
[11:01] <LaserJock> neuRo] : we don't have an easy mechanism for that. 99.99% of the time people want to get the source for just one or two packages at a time
[11:01] <LaserJock> neuRo] : and that is pretty straight forward
[11:01] <neuRo] > i just want the source for the core of ubuntu, do you understand or not?
[11:02] <Erl[Work] > hello all.  Now that Dapper is release, will some MOTU check my package for kpl?
[11:02] <LaserJock> neuRo] : I'm guessing that would be the kernel, and you can look at kernel.org for that
[11:02] <Bazzi> neuRo] : there is no such thing as "core of ubuntu"
[11:02] <Bazzi> except for the kernel as core.. sudo apt-get install linux-source
[11:03] <LaserJock> Erl[Work] : edgy hasn't opened up yet and we are still sort of in shell shock I think. Give us a few days :-)
[11:03] <Erl[Work] > LaserJock: np ;p I kinda already know what you'll think of it so it'll give me some time to review that.
[11:04] <Erl[Work] > I want to get involved more seriously for Edgy.
[11:04] <Kyral_Laptop> neuRo] : you don't understand the modular nature of the beast
[11:05] <Kyral_Laptop> If there is ANY core it is either ubuntu-minimal or ubuntu-base
[11:05] <neuRo] > LaserJock: pm
[11:07] <Kyral_Laptop> oy this is suspcious
[11:08] <Bazzi> conspiracy of one
[11:08] <Kyral_Laptop> if source is what he's after..give him Gentoo or LFS
[11:08] <Erl[Work] > Is there a channel for the backport team?
[11:10] <LaserJock> possibly
[11:10] <LaserJock> is there much of a team?
[11:10] <Bazzi> damn, #ubuntu is really overcrowded atm
[11:11] <jpatrick> Bazzi: that's a great album
[11:11] <Erl[Work] > LaserJock: there is a mailing list
[11:12] <Erl[Work] > there is a Backporters team... it's small
[11:13] <LaserJock> jdong and mez?
[11:15] <Erl[Work] > I guess.
[11:18] <jpatrick> https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-backporters
[11:20] <siretart> Erl[Work] : we have some ppl who worked on backports. unfortunately, there hasn't been much activity from them lately.
[11:21] <LaserJock> I think if the backport policy was better it might get more activity
[11:22] <Erl[Work] > I'd be interested in working on that a bit.
[11:38] <LaserJock> for goodness sakes, I can't find an xfig-like app to save my life :(


[15:03] <azend> BobJonkman1: I'm reading the agenda for the next meeting
[15:03] <azend> I think to improve participation it might be a good idea to spam the list with the minutes after each meeting
[15:04] <azend> Hopefully this will bring Ubuntu Canada up to the forefront of everyones minds a little better
[19:58] <BobJonkman1> azend: A good idea. Since I post them on the Agenda/Minutes page anyway, it's not much extra effort to post them to the mailing list
[19:59] <BobJonkman1> I'll spam the list with a reminder before the meeting too
[19:59]  * genii makes more coffee and plans to attend
[23:46] <KombuchaKip> Avaneya, a cerebral sci-fi for Ubuntu under development by Ubuntu Vancouver! https://www.avaneya.com
[23:49] <genii> Interesting


[01:38] <skull-skrimp> When adding your own datasource, the step "Enable datasource by default in ubuntu packaging branches", where is/are these files?
[01:41] <falcojr> we have separate ubuntu/jammy, ubuntu/focal, ubuntu/bionic, and ubuntu/devel branches that have a separate debian/ directory
[01:41] <falcojr> the datasources are listed in debian/cloud-init.templates
[01:42] <falcojr> those need to come as separate PRs, so we (the ones employed by Canonical) can help with that
[01:47] <skull-skrimp> Alright, was testing the DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS=nocheck ./packages/bddeb -d produced
[01:47] <skull-skrimp> and noticed that the datasource isnt getting picked up in 20.04*
[01:48] <skull-skrimp> It seems like its related to that, but not 100% sure
[01:52] <skull-skrimp> Referring to these files basically? https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/blob/ubuntu/jammy-22.3-hotfix/debian/cloud-init.templates
[01:55] <falcojr> yeah, if you're going to test that way, you should probably add the datasource directly to /etc/cloud/cloud.cfg.d/90_dpkg.cfg. Then "cloud-init clean --reboot --logs", and it should act like a fresh install on a clean boot with the datasource detection code present
[01:57] <skull-skrimp> 99% of my testing has been with debian-11, so want to try outside of that
[02:07] <skull-skrimp> Are there other files that need to be updated possibly? I'm not getting the detection of the datasource.
[02:10] <falcojr> hmmm, as long as the datasource_list is set appropriately (and ds-identify knows how to correctly detect it), that should be it
[02:17] <skull-skrimp> Looks like my ds-identify is bailing at case "$DI_MODE" in check
[02:22] <skull-skrimp> looks like it was running in 'enabled' mode by default on ubuntu, think debian is search
[02:23] <falcojr> ahh, interesting
[02:23] <skull-skrimp> yep, that was it, now it sees datasource
[02:27] <skull-skrimp> On ubuntu server it defaults to enabled in /etc/cloud/ds-identify.cfg, and default is `search` in debian, so yea that was also the diff
[17:45] <minimal> skull-skrimp: out of interest, which cloud provider is NWCS DataSource for?
[17:46] <skull-skrimp> One I'm working on hah
[17:46] <skull-skrimp> As in, its new and you dont know about it except for that PR
[17:46] <minimal> ah, that explains why searching online gave no matches
[17:47] <skull-skrimp> Yea, I'm writing a platform and need to integrate guest images with it via cloud-init
[17:48] <skull-skrimp> In due time, hopefully you do know about it :)
[17:50] <skull-skrimp> I'm trying to write a platform that drastically simplifies guest management (dont like libvirt) with some of the cloud benefits (metadata, etc) with some modern functionality (REST, etc)
[17:51] <minimal> skull-skrimp: like firecracker provides? (in addition to its lightweight VM features)
[17:51] <skull-skrimp> Havent used
[17:51] <minimal> it comes with MMDS (metadata) and REST API
[17:51] <minimal> skull-skrimp: any particular distro you're using for client?
[17:52] <skull-skrimp> 22.04 and Debian rn
[17:52] <skull-skrimp> 20.04*
[17:53] <skull-skrimp> https://github.com/firecracker-microvm/firecracker/blob/cd29c64b35f694a5a442a7778b7c1463551bc1e2/FAQ.md#what-is-the-difference-between-firecracker-and-qemu looks like its alternative to qemu. I use qemu pretty exclusively
[17:55] <minimal> yes firecracker is for microvms, basically only virtio devices, MMIO rather than PCI, stripped down BIOS
[17:55] <minimal> qemu has a similar microvm machine
[23:00]  * meena wonders if her tests would run faster if she scooched over a meter and plugged her laptop in…
[23:01] <meena> nope… not magically
[23:02] <falcojr> pytest-xdist is an extension you can install that'll split your tests among your cores
[23:02] <falcojr> install it and try "pytest -n auto" (though I think we have 3 tests that aren't a fan of that atm)
[23:02] <meena> falcojr: or, i could run: pytest --last-failed
[23:02] <falcojr> that too
[23:03] <meena> brain's not been working great lately,,
[23:03] <meena> there's a few tests that are unusually slow on my system and i don't know why
[23:04] <falcojr> yeah, we've had some of those come around now and then. Usually it's a missed mock somewhere
[23:05] <meena> falcojr: wonder if when i fix the 127 tests that fail when running pytest on FreeBSD, it will speed up…
[23:10] <meena> so, here's my failures: https://bpaste.net/show/AY2Q
[23:10] <meena> i pushed my latest changes… need to goto bed now (will probably still be awake for some questions…)
[23:11] <meena> i can't figure out where to hook in the mocking of ifconfig -a
[23:12] <falcojr> depends on how it's imported...sometimes just subp.subp works, otherwise you need the name of the module that it's being called it
[23:19] <meena> see latest patchset for what I'm doing


[12:10] <ren0v0> who just banned me from #ubuntu ?
[12:10] <ikonia> I did
[12:10] <ren0v0> for?
[12:10] <ikonia> I was just typing you a message in private when you started asking in +1
[12:10] <ikonia> basically you need to calm down your attitude towards people please
[12:11] <ikonia> thats all,
[12:11] <ren0v0> thats worthy of a ban??
[12:11] <ikonia> I kicked you - and while I was typing you a message you came back and started it up again
[12:11] <ren0v0> i gave the guy a command, he was obviously looking for that method as he mentioned "-g"
[12:11] <ikonia> so I removed you while I could type you a message
[12:12] <ikonia> if you could just calm down and talk to people a little calmer without the drama, that would be appreciated and there will be no more issues
[12:12] <ikonia> more than happy to remove the ban if you're happy with that
[12:12] <ren0v0> The guy i said to get off his toadstool :D, he instigated that by asking if i was calling him a liar :S
[12:12] <ikonia> you sort of where suggesting he was making it up
[12:13] <ikonia> but again, rather than just say "no" you make a drama
[12:13] <ikonia> next time just say "no"
[12:13] <ren0v0> not at all, i asked if he was sure...
[12:13] <ikonia> thats really not how it came across, but again, it wasn't that you questioned it (it's fine to question people) its the response
[12:13] <ikonia> just calm down and be a little more polite and there will be zero issue
[12:13] <ikonia> acceptable ?
[12:14] <ren0v0> fine, in the same respect the other guy should be told the same thing, no need to question my response either
[12:14] <ikonia> sure
[12:15] <ikonia> why are you trying to evade a ban while talking to me
[12:15] <ren0v0> ?
[12:16] <ikonia> you've got two clients in ubuntu
[12:16] <ikonia> I assume it's an accident that it's bypassing the ban ?
[12:16] <ren0v0> no idea, i have my bouncer that i just released
[12:16] <ikonia> no proble
[12:16] <ikonia> problem
[12:16] <ren0v0> i just installed 16.04 and having audio issues, not got my xchat client setup
[12:16] <ikonia> give me a moment and I'll remove the ban for you
[12:16] <ren0v0> also seems xchat2 has been removed from 16.04
[12:17] <ikonia> if you're asking about 16.04 - could you please do that in ubuntu+1 not ubuntu
[12:17] <ikonia> (side comment)
[12:17] <ren0v0> no i wasn't, same issue i had in 14.04 and 15.10, basically about to give up and send the DAC back
[12:17] <ikonia> I've removed the ban for you, so you're welcome to leave this channel and rejoin #ubuntu, thanks for your time
[21:11] <k1l> !guidelines > kaiak
[21:23] <dax> for future reference, "battletoads" is an excellent indicator of trollitude
[21:23] <ikonia> gayfriend will be a problem
[21:25] <elky> everyone's getting bored over the easter weekend i assume
[23:17] <k1l> !guidelines
[23:43] <k1l> that is why we cant have nice things on the internet