[19:39] <suncokret> when you expect Lubuntu 15.04 to come?
[19:40] <wxl> !release | suncokret
[19:41] <wxl> oops wrong one
[19:41] <wxl> suncokret: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VividVervet/ReleaseSchedule
[19:41] <wxl> tl;dr apr 23
[19:41] <suncokret> i know that :)
[19:41] <suncokret> i mean for this new
[19:41] <suncokret> it will be for about 10 days?
[19:41] <wxl> april 23
[19:42] <wxl> 23 - 8 ≠ 10 :)
[19:42] <suncokret> and how long is in plan to keep lxde?
[19:42] <wxl> until lxqt is released
[19:42] <wxl> hopefully 15.10 will be lxqt
[19:43] <suncokret> and 16.04 will be lts?
[19:43] <wxl> yep
[19:43] <suncokret> so it is in plan for 16.04 to be LTS with lxqt?
[19:43] <wxl> there is no set in stone plan
[19:44] <wxl> lxqt needs to be 100% good before we can release it
[19:44] <suncokret> so it have posibility to 16.04 still be with lxde?
[19:44] <wxl> it's possible
[19:44] <suncokret> i hope
[19:44] <wxl> everything's possible
[19:44] <suncokret> because i like lxde
[19:44] <wxl> but lxde is going away
[19:44] <wxl> there's really no development of it happening upstream
[19:44] <wxl> and gtk is fraught with problems
[19:45] <suncokret> and tell me, if 16.04 will be with lxqt, will we have posibility to install lxde too?
[19:45] <wxl> no
[19:45] <wxl> i mean i'm sure it will still be in the repos but we're not going to support it
[19:46] <wxl> it's not going to be a checkbox like "choose between lxqt or lxde"
[19:46] <wxl> if you want to do the work to switch everything out, you can, but you're on your own
[19:46] <suncokret> so it will be in repos like xfce, and we will can install it from repos?
[19:46] <wxl> yep
[19:46] <wxl> until it dies on the vine
[19:46] <wxl> which will eventually happen
[19:47] <suncokret> i didn't try lxqt, is it have very similar look like lxde?
[19:47] <wxl> um
[19:47] <wxl> no
[19:47] <wxl> unless you think lubuntu and kubuntu look a lot a like :)
[19:48] <suncokret> so in future if somebody use lxde it can be problem to run some programs?
[19:49] <wxl> basically the difference between the two is the graphics libraries
[19:49] <wxl> so let's go through some examples:
[19:49] <wxl> * you have lxde (and thus the gtk libraries)
[19:50] <wxl> * you want to use a program that uses qt
[19:50] <wxl> * you install the qt libraries
[19:50] <wxl> * it works
[19:50] <wxl> and vice versa for lxqt and a gtk app
[19:50] <wxl> but:
[19:50] <wxl> you have lxqt and want to use some lxde application (like the old lxpanel or something) -- might be a little funky
[19:53] <suncokret> what is vice versa
[19:53] <suncokret> ?
[19:53] <wxl> in latin, it means "the other way around"
[19:54] <suncokret> so lxqt will have similar lightweight and it will be more configurable?
[19:54] <suncokret> and it will use qt libraries
[19:54] <suncokret> ?
[20:00] <suncokret> which version of Lubuntu you use? i plan to use 14.04 until new LST come, or maybe until it have support :)
[20:34] <wxl> suncokret: yes, lubuntu is still about being lightweight.
[20:34] <wxl> suncokret: i use 14.04 mostly but that's mainly because i'm lazy :)
[20:36] <MajB> wxl:  From what I have read LXQT uses only slightly more resources that LXDE uses.
[20:36] <MajB> Most of us are going to bloat it up anyway.
[20:36] <wxl> MajB: no, what you read was that at that current point in development, it used slightly more
[20:37] <wxl> the goal, of course, is to get it on par or less
[20:37] <wxl> which should be attainable
[20:37] <suncokret> i am lazy too, but i think it is better to use 14.04 because it is LTS
[20:37] <wxl> i wouldn't call it "better"
[20:37] <wxl> sometimes more recent software is better
[20:38] <MajB> I use 14.04 but have 14.10 also installed.
[20:38] <wxl> i've used bleeding edge versions full time and never really ran into problems
[20:39] <suncokret> for me is better because it have 3 years support
[20:39] <MajB> I have not had a problem with 14.10 and do not expect to have a problem with 15.04.
[20:40] <MajB> Let's not hang on to 14.04 just because it is LTS.  Remember when there was no LTS.
[20:40] <MajB> I have used Lubuntu since before it was an approved flavor.
[20:41] <MajB> Every 6 months we waited to see what the new version would bring.
[20:42] <MajB> There are always problems and most of them get fixed or patched before the release.  If not the smart guys/gals come up with a work around.  That is part of the fun of using Linux.
[20:48] <suncokret> i don't have time to set 14.10, or 15.04... 14.04 works great for me, i don't have problems
[20:49] <MajB> Great.  That too is the beauty of Linux.
[20:52] <suncokret> i have problem... how i can have sound on speakers when i put headphones in?
[20:56] <suncokret> when i put headphones cable in, then i don't know how to change sound to go to speakers, only way is to take headphone cable out
[21:05] <wxl> well said, MajB. with that atittude, i'm surprised you're not an ubuntu member and/or a regular contributor
[21:05] <MajB> suncokret:  That is the generally desired outcome.  Plug in the headphones and that automatically mutes the speakers.
[21:05] <wxl> suncokret: unmute the speakers
[21:07] <suncokret> how to unmute speakers?
[21:07] <MajB> wxl:  I contribute to the Ubuntu forums, Ask Ubuntu, and the LXDE forum.  Never got around to applying for membership.  Having too much fun doing other stuff.
[21:09] <wxl> suncokret: alsamixer
[21:09] <wxl> suncokret: alternately are running pulseaudio?
[21:10] <wxl> suncokret: you can check with with `ps aux | grep [p]ulse`
[21:10] <MajB> suncokret:  Google is a Linux user's second best friend.  http://www.googlubuntu.com/results/?cx=006238239194895611142:u-ocqbntw_o&q=How+to+get+speakers+to+work+when+headphones+are+plugged+in&sa=Search&cof=FORID:9
[21:13] <suncokret> i use pulseaudio
[21:13] <wxl> suncokret: if you're running pulse, see here for lots of workarounds https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/alsa-driver/+bug/921397
[21:13] <suncokret> and in out devices i have analog headphones
[21:13] <suncokret> and analog out
[21:14] <wxl> out is out :)
[21:14] <suncokret> when i choose analog out speakers still don't work
[21:14] <suncokret> only when i plug out headphones, then speakers work
[21:14] <wxl> you need to make it unmuted and pump up the volume
[21:15] <wxl> suncokret: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/16306867/xfce-speakers-stays-on-when-headphones-is-connected also might be useful
[21:15]  * wxl doesn't like using pulse because then you have to make sure that both pulse and alsa are on the same page
[21:15] <wxl> MajB: ahh well coool. thanks for the help. if you want some help applying for membership, i'd be happy to help.
[21:16] <wxl> MajB: it does have its benefits https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership#Benefits_of_Membership (includes a nice cloak on irc so i can't see what your ip address is anymore)
[21:16] <suncokret> that is not same problem
[21:17] <wxl> suncokret: the first one is
[21:17] <suncokret> i go to pulse mixer
[21:17] <suncokret> and when i in out devices choose analog out
[21:17] <suncokret> it is not mute
[21:17] <wxl> is it up all the way?
[21:18] <suncokret> but i hear sound on headphones
[21:18] <suncokret> nothing on speakers
[21:32] <suncokret> now i have sound on speakers too, i disable option auto-mute in alsa mixer, now i have sound on speakers and no headphones
[21:32] <suncokret> is there option auto-mute in pulse audio?
[22:15] <suncokret> thanks for help, good night


[02:51] <IdleOne> !away > onia
[06:25] <lotuspsychje> someone knows if there's an existing trigger in #ubuntu for this wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/Debugging/Backlight
[06:25] <lotuspsychje> if not, maybe interesting to add?
[06:25] <rww> !search backlight
[06:25] <rww> !search Backlight
[06:25] <rww> i answered the first question!
[06:25] <lotuspsychje> rww: :p
[06:26] <rww> that might be too specific, but https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/Debugging might be handy
[06:26] <rww> !kernel
[06:26] <rww> holy commas batman
[06:26] <rww> !stages
[06:26] <lotuspsychje> rww: well alot of users asking backlight issues no?
[06:26] <rww> not really
[06:27] <rww> huh, didn't know we had that factoid
[06:27] <lotuspsychje> rww: ok well i just thought, if wiki already exists, would be easy trigger add :p
[06:27] <lotuspsychje> rww: kernel one i know off
[06:27] <rww> i should make chu do it, he doesn't poke ubottu enough
[06:28] <lotuspsychje> rww: ok tnx for the considering
 all software is beta
 to think otherwise is presumptious and tantamount to god worship
[08:47] <tsimpson> it's a valid point of view
[09:39] <ikonia> hello liouys
[11:45] <knome> beta regarding "perfect software", not necessarily beta regarding some features/bugfixes
[11:47] <tsimpson> beta as in "work in progress"
[11:48] <knome> depends what the goal is.
[11:49] <tsimpson> perfection, what other goal is there? ;)
[11:51]  * knome sighs
[12:33] <IdleOne> tsimpson: profit!
[20:40] <Fritzendugan> Hi, I feel pretty silly having to do this, but a particular op has muted me apparently for being "smart-mouthed." I have since said that I will drop the discussion and move on, but he/she refuses to un-mute me because he/she "doesn't like my attitude." Reference: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7568401/
[20:45] <ikonia> you've missed the first line of the paste off
[20:45] <ikonia> could you please paste it fully
[20:45] <ikonia> (in a pastebin)
[20:45] <ikonia> would you like me to paste the complete log ?
[20:46] <Fritzendugan> http://pastebin.com/HvVPvpE8
[20:46] <ikonia> no
[20:46] <ikonia> you've still edited it
[20:47] <ikonia> ahh sorry
[20:47] <ikonia> you've not now
[20:47] <Fritzendugan> There's likely some miscommunication going on between the two of us. Text is an imperfect medium after all. I'm just ready to move on with my day, I'm done with the discussion
[20:47] <Fritzendugan> no, it's complete.
[20:47] <ikonia> just the formatting of the second paste
[20:47] <Fritzendugan> I can offer you a screenshot if that's better
[20:47] <ikonia> my fault
[20:47] <ikonia> no no, it's fine
[20:48] <Fritzendugan> it was never my intention to misrepresent the discussion. I simply missed the first line
[20:48] <ikonia> and yet you didn't correct it
[20:48] <ikonia> but these things happen
[20:48] <Fritzendugan> I didn't see it until you pointed it out
[20:48] <Fritzendugan> I corrected it as soon as you asked me to
[20:48] <ikonia> no problem
[20:58] <ikonia> Fritzendugan: apologies, there seems to be no other ops around at the moment, if you hang in, I'm sure someone will get to you
[21:04] <Fritzendugan> Thanks.
[21:25] <ikonia> Fritzendugan: still there ?
[21:25] <Fritzendugan> yes
[21:25] <ikonia> cool, well as no-ones around, I don't want to keep you waiting, so if you're comfortable with dropping the smart comments I'll remove the mute in #ubuntu ?
[21:26] <ikonia> I hoped someone else would have been around, but I don't want to keep you locked out for a minor issue
[21:26] <ikonia> ?
[21:27] <ikonia> you can then come back and raise your complaint at a later time
[21:27] <Fritzendugan> You know very well that I said 30 minutes ago I dropped the argument and was ready to move on. So yes, I'd appreciate that, thank you.
[21:27] <ikonia> again - to be clear, it's not the argument
[21:27] <Fritzendugan> I have no need to raise a complaint if the mute is lifted
[21:27] <ikonia> it's your attitude with the smart mouth comments to simple polite requests
[21:28] <ikonia> if you can drop those - I'm happy for you to be able to talk in #ubuntu again
[21:29] <ikonia> is that acceptable ?
[21:30] <Fritzendugan> I think it's largely your opinion what's a smart mouth comment and what's a polite request. You blatantly ignored the abuse I was receiving in the channel and chose to single me out, so I could only assume you were being antagonistic. If you weren't, then there was clearly some miscommunication and I apologize for the intitial comment. But frankly, the fact that you left me muted for so long points to you having somewhat of a g
[21:30] <Fritzendugan> od-complex. Nonetheless, yes, I have already dropped it and am ready to move on. I'm not sure why I have to keep repeating that. Like I said, the only issue here is that you have me muted and I can't participate in the #ubuntu channel. Once that mute is lifted, I no longer have any issues.
[21:31] <ikonia> this is the problem
[21:31] <ikonia> no-one singled you out
[21:31] <ikonia> I asked if you needed anything - you responeded with this parting quip
[21:31] <ikonia> No need to get offended because I'm pointing out one minor thing
[21:31] <ikonia>                       I didn't like (and disabled) from an operating system I
[21:31] <ikonia>                       otherwise very much enjoy. Thanks for playing internet
[21:31] <ikonia>                       police, though.
[21:31] <ikonia> there is zero need for it
[21:31] <ikonia> you then come at me calling me fan boy in private
[21:32] <Fritzendugan> Yes, you can keep harping on that, but the fact remains others were making comments about tin-foil hats and such that were totally unnecessary and you chose to ignore their comments and focus on mine
[21:32] <ikonia> I explain to you that I just wanted to make sure you had the info you required and end the debate
[21:32] <Fritzendugan> so yes, you singled me out
[21:32] <ikonia> Fritzendugan: I didn't ignore it
[21:32] <Fritzendugan> I'm not here to argue with you. Either you're going to un-mute me or you're not
[21:32] <ikonia> I didn't see it - and I've spoken to them since
[21:32] <ikonia> 21:26 < ikonia> wilee-nilee: please, lets drop it, he's muted
[21:32] <Fritzendugan> wilee-nilee didn't make the comment
[21:32] <Fritzendugan> it's not important
[21:32] <ikonia> and another private conversation with another user that I'm not going to paste as thats not your business
[21:32] <ikonia> so no-one was singled out
[21:33] <Fritzendugan> That's fine, I'm not here to argue with you.
[21:33] <ikonia> so there will be no more smart / rude comments to simple / polite requests ?
[21:34] <Fritzendugan> "<Fritzendugan> You know very well that I said 30 minutes ago I dropped the argument and was ready to move on. So yes, I'd appreciate that, thank you."
[21:34] <ikonia> no- thats the conversation
[21:34] <Fritzendugan> I'm not sure what you want from me
[21:34] <ikonia> I'm asking you to confirm there will be no more smart / rude comments
[21:35] <Fritzendugan> There will certainly be more smart comments. I'm a smart guy. As for rudeness, I have no intention of being rude.
[21:35] <ikonia> I suggest you talk to someone else
[21:38] <ikonia> I rightly/wrongly get the impression you are trying to play word games with your ocmments
[21:38] <Fritzendugan> that's why I came here, thanks.
[21:38] <Fritzendugan> No, I'm simply trying to get un-muted.
[21:38] <ikonia> so I'd rather someone else dealt with it, apologies
[21:38] <Fritzendugan> I get the feeling you want me to kiss your feet, which I have no intention of doing. Apologies.
[21:38] <ikonia> I want nothing of the sort
[21:39] <ikonia> I just wanted you to confirm there would be no more smart mouth jibes/rude comments
[21:39] <ikonia> so I'd personally rather leave it at that point to someone else
[21:39] <ikonia> and you responded with snother smart comment about you being a smart guy
[21:39] <ikonia> sorry
[21:39] <Fritzendugan> you're not sorry, but thanks.
[21:40] <ikonia> I am sorry, I Assure you, I had no intention of leaving you muted for this long, I only didn't interact as you said you wished to complain, then when no-one else responded I thought I'd try again
[21:40] <ikonia> I want no feet kissing or anything like that, just a clear statement that you'll not make any more of these smart comments such as "thanks for being the internet police"
[21:41] <Fritzendugan> Yeah, I mean, I'm not sure how to be any more clear than "I'm ready to move on."
[21:41] <ikonia> that's not what I asked for
[21:42] <Fritzendugan> If you want me to type a certain string of characters like some type of computer program, I can do that
[21:42] <ikonia> you seem to be doing everything possible to not give a clear statement
[21:42] <Fritzendugan> just let me know what string
[21:42] <ikonia> "will you please stop making smart comment such as example: thanks for being the internet police" yes/no
[21:43] <Fritzendugan> yes
[21:43] <ikonia> "will you please not be rude to people such as the rant about me being a fan boy" yes/no
[21:44] <Fritzendugan> http://linuxcommand.org/man_pages/yes1.html
[21:44] <ikonia> I'm done with this
[21:44] <ikonia> I'm not interested in more smart responses
[21:45] <ikonia> I'm asking for yes/no responses to be as clear and simple as possible
[21:45] <Fritzendugan> and I'm not interested in answering yes to a thousand questions
[21:45] <ikonia> two questions,
[21:45] <ikonia> that's all it was
[21:45] <ikonia> I'll leave you to deal with someone else, sorry
[21:45] <Fritzendugan> well maybe you can give me a progress bar next time
[21:56] <CarlFK> Fritzendugan: you seem more interested in sparing than resolving.   sparing can be fun, but if you continue it when the other person is not interested, that is not nice.
[21:56] <CarlFK> personally, I would call it harassment.
[21:58] <CarlFK> <- me gets back to work.
[21:58] <Fritzendugan> Actually, I've explained numerous times that I'm ready to move on and be un-muted
[21:58] <Fritzendugan> but for some reason ikonia wants me to jump through hoops
[21:59] <Fritzendugan> One definition of harassment is "a feeling of intense annoyance caused by being tormented," if anything I am being harassed. I've been dealing with this issue for well past an hour.
[22:00] <Fritzendugan> CarlFK, if you could explain to me how I'm harassing him, exactly.
[22:04] <CarlFK> If you need that, I am not the one.  I suggest you find someone in real life that you trust.
[22:05] <Fritzendugan> Actually, what I need is for someone to un-mute me. If I were you, I'd be careful about making "smart responses" as ikonia has warned me before about them.
[22:05] <Fritzendugan> I wouldn't want you to get muted.
[22:53] <ikonia> Fritzendugan: I'm really sorry, I can't seem to find any other operators awake/available at this time (very unusual)
[22:53] <ikonia> Fritzendugan: you may want to /part /come back later, it's very rare for only one guy to be awake at this time
[22:53] <ikonia> just didn't want you to think you'd been forgot about
[22:55] <IdleOne> Fritzendugan: I am going to remove the mute but I would ask you to avoid debating in #ubuntu. We do have #ubuntu-offtopic for civil debating if you want to join there
[22:55] <IdleOne> mute has been removed.
[22:56] <IdleOne> Please part this channel and have a good $time_of_day
[23:34] <Fritzendugan> IdleOne, totally understood, thanks


[17:07] <balloons> ahoneybun, which event is that?
[19:35] <ahoneybun> balloons, code camp at Nova www.fladotnet.com/codecamp


[16:36] <halexander9000> Hi guys! Could someone please help me set up Space Engineers on Lubuntu? If at all possible?
[18:17] <holstein> halexander9000: what is that? a windows application?
[18:18] <holstein> halexander9000: i would go upstream, since, lubuntu is not doing anything to specifically prevent anything from running on it
[18:19] <holstein> i would, first, ask the creators of the application for a linux version. if they have none, i would look at the windows version in wine, in a wine support comunity, keeping in mind, that its idealy up to the creators of the application to "support" its funcionality on linux
[18:48] <mrdeb> hi guys. do u know of a but on 14.10 with power manager icon not showing and crashing when tryign to remove from panel, and only in lxpanel config it can removed?
[18:48] <mrdeb> bug
[18:50] <gebjgd> mrdeb, that is why i will stay be lts version.
[18:50] <mrdeb> lts has other bugs though
[18:50] <mrdeb> that arent fixed, so its not much better
[18:51] <mrdeb> other than that, things seem to run smooth
[18:51] <mrdeb> except pcmanfm needs to be fixed to make conky stop disappearing
[18:51] <mrdeb> tell that guy who makes it to fix his software
[18:54] <mrdeb> i had to leave crunchbang bec it was ended, so now i am on lubuntu
[18:54] <mrdeb> u guys do a good job with the icons
[18:54] <gebjgd> mrdeb, LOL. maybe you can stick with debian stable or sid
[18:54] <mrdeb> ubuntu is sid
[18:55] <mrdeb> but i tried debian lxde and it is ugly and messed up menus
[18:55] <gebjgd> mrdeb, no. ubuntu is testing/sid
[18:55] <mrdeb> sid is not testing
[18:55] <mrdeb> sid is unstable branch
[18:55] <mrdeb> stable/testing/sid
[18:55] <gebjgd> mrdeb, yes, ubuntu is based on testing and sid
[18:55] <mrdeb> cat /etc/version = jessie/sid
[18:56] <gebjgd> mrdeb, so i use tint2 not lxpanel
[18:56] <mrdeb> i know
[18:56] <mrdeb> i like tint2 better but if lxpane3l already installed it is not much point, only with clean build up openbox
[18:59] <gebjgd> mrdeb, jessie is now testing version
[19:00] <mrdeb> cate version says sid. it stared as sid
[19:00] <mrdeb> ubuntu always starts with sid adn then patches unstable programs
[19:01] <mrdeb> bbx
[19:04] <gebjgd> mrdeb, whatever it is sid or testing, that is not stable, so you have to face the problem.
[19:05] <gebjgd> mrdeb, what kind of power manager icon you are using?
[19:05] <mrdeb> well in my experience it is not much diff than lts
[19:05] <mrdeb> even tho they say it is
[19:05] <mrdeb> so i am on 64 bit lubuntu 1410 on desktop and it works well
[19:05] <mrdeb> it is xfce4 power manager
[19:06] <mrdeb> on a laptop, it shows up fine. on desktop, it shows up as blank space adn when you click to remove it, the panel crashes. u have to remove it via config file with nano
[19:06] <mrdeb> so othe than that, things work well
[19:08] <mrdeb> i would recommend u guys take out mtpaint, geckoplayer, audacious, and use gimp and vlc instead
[20:08] <mrdeb> why is lubuntu 1410 using vlc 2.2 pre release when 2.15 is current stable?
[20:10] <mrdeb> i dont understand these crazy version choices
[20:14] <ianorlin> mrdeb that isn't really an lubuntu problem but more for the someone who manages the repos
[20:19] <mrdeb> and who is that person. what is his name and email
[20:24] <Unit193> 2.2 is soon to be released, hence the 'pre'.  What's wrong with it?
[20:28] <mrdeb> well it is not stable version. so why is it in stable release ubuntu
[20:28] <mrdeb> what logic is this
[22:11] <Klubuntu> What is the changes from 14.04.1 to 14.04.2 and do i need to install 14.04.2 instead ?


[09:46] <ashickur-noor> Hi
[09:46] <ashickur-noor> any body home
[09:46] <ashickur-noor> ?
[09:47] <Unit193> !ask | ashickur-noor
[09:47] <ubot2> ashickur-noor: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
[09:47] <ashickur-noor> ok
[09:48] <ashickur-noor> I am facing trouble to connect internet in 11.10 trough wifi
[09:48] <ashickur-noor> but lan connection is OK
[09:48] <ashickur-noor> through WiFi it connect
[09:48] <ashickur-noor> but no internet access
[09:48] <ashickur-noor> What can I do/
[09:48] <ashickur-noor> ?
[09:49] <Unit193> What card?
[09:50] <ashickur-noor> wait
[09:50] <ashickur-noor> 02:00.0 Network controller: Atheros Communications Inc. AR928X Wireless Network Adapter (PCI-Express) (rev 01)
[09:51] <ashickur-noor> it was working fine until I upgrade the kernel
[09:58] <Unit193> Well, this isn't any help https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/Device/Atheros/AR9285
[10:01] <ashickur-noor> My WiFi card is working
[10:01] <ashickur-noor> But not getting the internet
[10:06] <Unit193> Is the LED wireless light on though?
[10:08] <ashickur-noor> yao
[10:08] <ashickur-noor> yap
[10:08] <ashickur-noor> I can connect to router by WiFi
[10:08] <Unit193> There was a way to turn it on, and the madwifi was needed at one point. It's 5am now and I need a little sleep, I'm sure someone that knows more on this deivce woll show up, and if not, ther eis #ubuntu too
[10:08] <ashickur-noor> but after connect there is no internet connection
[10:10] <ashickur-noor> ok thnx
[10:10] <ashickur-noor> have a nice sleep
[17:40] <seidos> anybody know how to change the power button to hibernate in 11.10?
[17:40] <seidos> and hi :)
[18:04] <seidos> ah, figured it out
[18:11] <trinikrono> good for u seidos
[18:12] <seidos> thanks trinikrono
[18:13] <seidos> if anyone cares here's the command:  gsettings set org.gnome.settings-daemon.plugins.power button-power "hibernate"
[21:14] <seidos> all right, so that didn't work
[21:14] <seidos> lemme try again
[21:16] <mysteriousdarren> seidos: what is the problem?
[21:17] <JackyAlcine> How do I move the application menu bar to a menu in the title bar?
[21:18] <philipballew> JackyAlcine, under what ui?
[21:19] <JackyAlcine> KDE
[21:19] <mysteriousdarren> philipballew: hello its been a while since I have been in here
[21:19] <philipballew> whats up mysteriousdarren
[21:20] <mysteriousdarren> enjoying the season wbu?
[21:20] <philipballew> JackyAlcine, I need to bruch up  on my kde skills. my friend darkwing is a kde pro.we run a ubuntu hour together
[21:20] <philipballew> mysteriousdarren, just sitting at my parents house i guess. how is ubuntu working for you
[21:21] <mysteriousdarren> great, no complaints
[21:21] <JackyAlcine> Hmm.
[21:21] <mysteriousdarren> lxde works awesome
[21:22] <mysteriousdarren> JackyAlcine: sorry I am not much help, its been years since I have used kde
[21:23] <philipballew> unity is on my laptop now
[21:25] <seidos> mysteriousdarren: i'm trying to make the system hibernate when i press the power button in 11.10
[21:27] <JackyAlcine> mysteriousdarren: no problem, I'm looking for the answer, when I find it, I might blog about it.
[21:28] <mysteriousdarren> seidos: what de?
[21:28] <seidos> mysteriousdarren: unity
[21:28] <mysteriousdarren> JackyAlcine: I'll do some research for you
[21:30] <seidos> well, i think, i mean, i'm using default ui in 11.10
[21:30] <JackyAlcine> :D
[21:30] <seidos> maybe gsettings doesn't work then
[21:32] <mysteriousdarren> seidos: so changing the settings through the menu doesn't work?
[21:32] <seidos> mysteriousdarren: which menu?
[21:32] <seidos> you mean in system-settings->power ?
[21:32] <mysteriousdarren> yes
[21:33] <seidos> because i can't find an option there for power button
[21:45] <mysteriousdarren> sorry who was talking on here with me before? I had to switch computers the netbook was bugging me too much
[21:46] <Unit193> That was seidos
[21:46] <seidos> \o mysteriousdarren
[21:47] <mysteriousdarren> sorry if anyone wants to know I am on here twice.
[21:49] <mystdarren> seidos: this will help. http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1883149
[21:51] <mystdarren> JackyAlcine: what was your question again?
[21:52] <JackyAlcine> mystdarren: Wanted to add a menubar button to the titlebar in KDE.
[21:52] <mystdarren> JackyAlcine: ok I am on the prowl looking for the answer
[21:55] <seidos> mystdarren: how do i use dconf-tools?
[21:56] <seidos> mystdarren: that also looks like a different problem
[21:57] <seidos> i wonder if dconf tools is any different from gsettings
[21:57] <mystdarren> seidos: did u google it? It would be faster than me finding a guide for you
[21:57] <seidos> mystdarren: right
[21:57] <mystdarren> JackyAlcine: is this what you were looking for?
[21:57] <mystdarren> http://docs.kde.org/stable/en/kdebase-workspace/kmenuedit/kmenuedit.pdf
[21:59] <mystdarren> Just a note that if you are a beginner at using ubuntu alot of the common and not so common questions can be solved by searching google. It should be your best friend.
[22:01] <seidos> strange gsettings says something different than dconf
[22:02] <mystdarren> well one of them will do it being the master anyway
[22:02] <mystdarren> what do they say?
[22:03] <seidos> mystdarren: do you have dconf on your system?
[22:04] <mystdarren> yes
[22:04] <JackyAlcine> I think that I found it, mystdarren
[22:05] <seidos> mystdarren: under org.gnome.settings-daemon.plugins.power button-power it said "suspend"
[22:05] <seidos> but under gsettings get org.gnome.settings-daemon.plugins.power button-power it had hibernate
[22:05] <seidos> i guess it's 2 different things now
[22:05] <mystdarren> JackyAlcine: great! that was a simple google search, I've learned the most by figuring it out myself. People ask me questions all the time that can be answer very quickly by just googling it.
[22:06] <mystdarren> Seidos: change it both to the same thing.
[22:06] <seidos> mystdarren: already did, just haven't tested
[22:06] <seidos> will gnome classic use less cpu than unity?
[22:07] <mystdarren> Seidos: depending on what is installed yes. I used lxde and its still way better than the other Ubuntus for me at least
[22:08] <mystdarren> seidos: depending on the apps and what you wanna run on it.
[22:08] <seidos> i should try unity 2d
[22:09] <mystdarren> what are you worried about? using it on a netbook? server? desktop?
[22:12] <mystdarren> does anyone have any other questions?
[22:13] <mystdarren> brb
[22:14] <seidos> mysteriousdarren: it ain't easy being green
[22:15] <mysteriousdarren> seidos: how green?
[22:15] <seidos> mysteriousdarren: as green as is tolerable
[22:15] <mysteriousdarren> seidos: couple weeks?
[22:16] <seidos> mysteriousdarren: green as in environmentally friendly
[22:17] <seidos> that's why i want to use a different ui
[22:17] <mysteriousdarren> seidos: ya I got that, how long have you been grean? recently?
[22:17] <seidos> i've used lxde, it was all right, unity 2d looks interesting here
[22:17] <seidos> http://www.webupd8.org/2011/01/unity-2d-qt-now-available-in-ppa-for.html
[22:18] <seidos> oh no, not recently.
[22:18] <mysteriousdarren> seidos: use what works for you, thats the main thing
[22:18] <seidos> i've been green for awhile, just trying to get greener and greener
[22:18] <mysteriousdarren> what didn't u like about lxde?
[22:19] <seidos> mysteriousdarren: it wasn't a substantial enough improvement, really
[22:19] <seidos> i should probably give openbox a shot again
[22:19] <mysteriousdarren> I was gonna say that, or how green do you wanna be?
[22:21] <seidos> now's a good time to try that hibernate
[22:22] <mysteriousdarren> ya you could always try Archlinux but the learning curve is high
[22:29] <JackyAlcine> mysteriousdarren: I got my desktop working the way I wanted :)
[22:29] <JackyAlcine> It's close to what I had in mind but :D


[12:24] <meven_> one hundred dollars question How can i release the process after execution using kind of int result = proc.start( KProcess::Block );
[12:26] <meven_> do i have to connect le kprocess to a slot or is there another way ?
[12:35] <meven_> i am not lucky
[01:44] <Hobbsee> morning all
[01:45] <RadiantFire> good morning
[01:46] <jjesse> :)
[01:46] <jjesse> good evening
[01:47] <Hobbsee> hiya
[01:48] <Hobbsee> darn, kdeedu ftbfs due to other merges
[01:48] <jjesse> Hobbsee: if i want to be running the bleeding edge version of debian is that unstable or testing?
[01:49] <Hobbsee> testing, i believe
[01:49] <Hobbsee> although things seem to get uploaded to unstable a lot, and nto to testing
[01:49] <Hobbsee> i'm not sure
[01:49] <rbrunhuber_> jjesse: the bleeding edge is unstable (aka sid)
[01:50] <jjesse> rbrunhuber_: thanks
[01:52] <rbrunhuber_> jjesse: but it can be really unstable so you may want to have a look on sidux. which is sid but a bit "moderated"
[01:54] <jjesse> rbrunhuber_: if i'm trying to work on dcoumenting both keep and adept which should i use?
[01:56] <rbrunhuber_> jjesse: you should use debian unstable then. Because debian is upstream for a lot of packages and not sidux (which is independent of debian)
[01:56] <jjesse> rbrunhuber_: thanks thats what i thought, but wanted to make sure
[01:57] <rbrunhuber_> jjesse: It's dangerous though because maybe ubuntu is upstream for debian on your packages. So you have to be careful.
[01:57] <jjesse> rbrunhuber_: its just a vm for both gutsy and debian unstable
[01:57] <jjesse> so if it crashes or bombs out i can just revert the snapshot
[01:58] <rbrunhuber_> jjesse: I did not mean dangerous as crashing but be careful who is upstream to whom the ubuntu packages may come from debian or kde directly.
[01:58] <jjesse> rbrunhuber_: thanks i will be
[01:59] <rbrunhuber_> jjesse: This mean if you document the latest and greatest feature in debian this may not land in ubuntu and the other way round.
[01:59] <jjesse> rbrunhuber_: i understand
[02:00] <jjesse> for adept i have to document different for debian and ubuntu because they have moved very far apart
[02:00] <rbrunhuber_> jjesse: but good luck on your docu writing. Thats always very appreciated.
[02:00] <jjesse> rbrunhuber_: thanks
[02:40] <jjesse> i hate it when i'm working in a vm and it always repeat key strokes :(
[05:16] <Hobbsee> http://www.ereslibre.es/?p=47 is seriously cool.
[05:16] <Hobbsee> manchicken_: ^
[05:19] <Jucato> radial menu! kool! :)
[05:19] <Hobbsee> yep
[05:19] <Jucato> although they're too far from the center, imho
[05:20] <Jucato> unless hovering over a pie-section is the same as clicking/hovering over the icon itself
[05:22] <Hobbsee> it's here for me
[05:22] <Jucato> ah there...
[05:22] <Jucato> I set it to fetch every hour only...
[05:23] <Jucato> I bet the kcontrol kultists will be saying something :)
[05:23] <Hobbsee> heh
[05:25] <Hobbsee> yeah - shiny :)
[06:05] <ajmitch> go for it
[06:37] <Hobbsee> iirc that was done with kwifimanager
[06:51] <nixternal> http://www.ereslibre.es/?p=47
[06:51] <nixternal> that is pretty sharp actually
[09:35] <mhb> good morning
[09:38] <Jucato> moin mhb
[09:43] <mhb> Jucato: what's up in here? Any important&cool stuff I missed? :o)
[09:43] <Jucato> um.. none that I know of :)
[09:54] <Tonio_> hey
[09:54] <Tonio_> fdoving: your patch works nicelly
[09:54] <Tonio_> fdoving: I didn't notice any regression, so I'll probably include it tomorrow
[09:58] <fdoving> Tonio_: great. as i explained in the mail, it's an issue when refreshing.
[09:59] <fdoving> and htis is a workaround only.
[09:59] <fdoving> grrr.. dead dsl and unstable gprs. :|
[10:00] <Tonio_> I don't expect a real bug fixing on kde3 now....
[10:00] <Tonio_> fdoving: even if we have to report to kde
[10:01] <Tonio_> fdoving: btw the workarround is fine
[10:01] <Tonio_> fdoving: I'll be on my contrib day tomorrow, so I'll push the patch in
[10:01] <Tonio_> fdoving: and hopefully, as soon as I get my internet connection back at home (in 2 weeks) I'll be able to contribute every evening
[10:02] <Tonio_> just sucks that it takes so long to get someone to fix my internet connection issue.....
[10:02] <Tonio_> fdoving: your changes will be in soon :)
[10:02] <Tonio_> and once again thanks for the help
[10:02] <fdoving> ok. i think i'll have to go make some calls, my dsl is dead too. died some time this morning.
[10:02] <fdoving> you're welcome :)
[10:03] <fdoving> bye.
[11:01] <viviersf> Riddell, ping
[11:03] <Riddell> hi viviersf
[11:04] <Riddell> how's impi?
[11:04] <viviersf> Riddell, just wanted to find out, what is the default kde for gutsy
[11:04] <viviersf> Riddell, its doing well :)
[11:04] <viviersf> 3.5 or 4 ?
[11:04] <Riddell> 3.5.7 (or possibly 3.5.8 if it exists)
[11:04] <Riddell> kde 4 won't be released until after gutsy
[11:04] <Riddell> so we'll put out an unsupported remastered CD when that happens
[11:05] <viviersf> cool
[11:05] <Riddell> gutsy+1 will also be KDE 3 by default since it's LTS
[11:05] <viviersf> will kubuntu kde patches be applied to the feisty branch on your site
[11:05] <Riddell> how do you mean?
[11:05] <viviersf> youve got backports for kde 3.5.7 for feisty
[11:05] <Riddell> yep
[11:06] <viviersf> does gusty patches get applied to those
[11:06] <Riddell> no
[11:06] <viviersf> k
[11:06] <viviersf> just making sure
[11:06] <viviersf> well atleast those backports work better than feisty's kde
[11:06] <Riddell> in which way?
[11:07] <viviersf> kontact/kmail
[11:07] <Riddell> ah yes, people have been saying that's improved
[11:07] <Riddell> they remove xinerama support though
[11:07] <viviersf> yeh
[11:07] <viviersf> they chose to move impi to gnome
[11:07] <viviersf> but we still use kontact
[11:07] <Riddell> grump
[11:07] <viviersf> cos of kolab etc
[11:07] <Riddell> right, I noticed you'd got into that
[11:08] <viviersf> so its very important for kontact to work 100%
[11:08] <viviersf> yeh :)
[11:21] <_StefanS_> mornings
[11:21] <_StefanS_> anyone remember what that tool for searching (and adding) non-kde programs to the kmenu ?
[11:21] <_StefanS_> cant remember it :(
[11:22] <Riddell> kappfinder?
[11:22] <Jucato> kappfinder
[11:22] <_StefanS_> ah yes !! :)
[11:22] <Jucato> although non-kde apps should be added automatically to the menu, provided they have the correct .desktop file
[11:22] <_StefanS_> thanks alot
[11:23] <_StefanS_> I was thinking Xterm and so on
[11:23] <Jucato> ah yeah
[11:23] <Jucato> xeyes :)
[11:23] <_StefanS_> nice :) exactly what I needed
[01:28] <Lure> Riddell: kdepim (kitchensync) needs opensync to build -> do you plan to request MIR for opensync?
[01:30] <Riddell> Lure: not looked at it yet, if you fancy doing the MIR please go ahead
[01:30] <Lure> Riddell: opensync in ubuntu/debian is rather old (0.19, latest is 0.22)
[01:31] <Riddell> yes, that probably also needs doing
[01:31] <Lure> Riddell: not sure if we should wait for update first (0.30 should be out soon and lifeless is debian maintainer)
[01:31] <Lure> Riddell: we could make kitchensync empty package for now...
[01:32] <Riddell> if kdepim works with .22 I don't see a point in waiting
[01:33] <Lure> Riddell: problem is we have 0.19 and I doubt it is at all useful to try
[01:33] <Lure> 0.22 is available by 3rdparties only (and it works for me and my nokia phone)
[01:34] <Lure> lifeless did not want to push 0.21/0.22 as 0.30 will change some stuff that will impact packagin, afair
[01:34] <Riddell> by 3rd parties?  it's not an official release?
[01:34] <Lure> Riddell: official release, just not in debian/ubuntu
[01:34] <Riddell> waiting for a future release is risky, it may get delayed, is there a release schedule?
[01:34] <Lure> Riddell: http://www.in.fh-merseburg.de/~jahn/opensync-0.21/
[01:36] <Lure> Riddell: according to Trac, 0.30 is "due in one week", but still 13 tickets opened, so I doubt it
[01:37] <Lure> Riddell: but there are daily commits, so it may be true
[01:37] <Lure> Riddell: but anyhow, we want working kdepim (including networkstatus) before MIR is granted (or 0.30 hits repo), right?
[01:38] <Lure> therefore shipping empty kitchensync package as a workaround would be fine
[01:39] <Lure> Riddell: btw, I see that you do not ship kitchensyn in your feisty repo at all...
[01:40] <Riddell> no, I just removed it from feisty
[01:40] <Riddell> I don't mind removing it from gutsy if that's the right thing to do just now
[01:50] <hunger> Hmmm... updating KDE without restarting the KDE apps is no fun:-)
[02:14] <Riddell> kwwii: could i get an eps of http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/kubuntu_akademy_banner.png ?
[02:15] <Riddell> (at some point soon, no immediate rush)
[02:15] <sebas> Urgh. The slogan totally sucks.
[02:15] <kwwii> wait till you see the real one
[02:16] <Riddell> kwwii: we want that slogan, not the other one
[02:16] <Riddell> or a better one if sebas has one to hand
[02:16] <kwwii> Riddell: did you clear that with Gerry?
[02:16] <Riddell> kwwii: no, but then he never cleared his one with me
[02:17] <Riddell> and nobody that I've asked likes it
[02:17] <sebas> Should I post them here and have people bike-shed about it, or just privmail? :-)
[02:17] <kwwii> I think that you and Riddell can pick one :-)
[02:17] <sebas> Last time slogans were discussed on-list, it was a mess, everyone knows better, even if they don't.
[02:18] <kwwii> Riddell: I have to basically redraw the whole thing in adobe illustrator, I'll try to get it done by tomorrow, ok?
[02:19] <Riddell> kwwii: you do?  why?  tomorrow is fine
[02:19] <sebas> That's for the aKademy banner, right?
[02:19] <sebas> So target group is developers, not users?
[02:19] <Riddell> sebas: yes
[02:20] <kwwii> Riddell: because inkscape cannot create an eps
[02:20] <Riddell> kwwii: but can't AI import inkscape's SVG?
[02:20] <sebas> Should we go the community way then? I think so
[02:20] <kwwii> Riddell: yes, but it will not support the kind of transparency I am using
[02:21] <kwwii> and I still have to redo the cutting of the paths for the bleed
[02:21] <kwwii> it is not a real problem, but I am working on something else atm :-)
[02:21] <kwwii> I also need to touch up the advert from last year
[02:22] <sebas> Hm, what about "Our desktop." ?
[02:22] <sebas> I'm not sure as to what to communicate, is there anything known from Canonical why they sponsor aKademy, what they want to express with that?
[02:23] <sebas> We could otherwise get real geeky. As in "Downstream loves you!" or something similar
[02:24] <Riddell> sebas: they deliberately sponsor akademy higher than guadec to show their support for KDE to the otherwise skeptical developers
[02:24] <sebas> Then I'd say something snappy with 'downstream' of this meaning would be cool
[02:25] <Riddell> "all our customers choose KDE" :)
[02:25] <sebas> Hehehe
[02:25] <Riddell> (except Dell, but what do they know)
[02:26] <sebas> Kubuntu - all our users use KDE
[02:26] <sebas> Or maybe "Eat *this*, Novell!" ;-)
[02:26] <Riddell> provocative :)
[02:26] <sebas> Yes, and pretty much not done as well.
[02:27] <sebas> I'd do "Downstream loves you!"
[02:27] <Riddell> I do quite like that
[02:28] <sebas> It's definitely better than easy, good, perfect (or what was it?)
[02:28] <Riddell> random words that kwwii had in his head
[02:28] <Riddell> which is better than http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/kubuntu_akademy_banner_1.png
[02:28] <sebas> I usually check slogans by putting them next to a brick and see if that applies. If it does, the slogan sucks.
[02:29] <sebas> Hehehe, make that Ubuntu - GNOME and it's funny again.
[02:29] <Riddell> yes, the equation is wrong anyway
[02:29] <sebas> Actually, that's one of the things Chris mentioned as well.
[02:29] <Riddell> which is?
[02:30] <sebas> He talked about "star buntu"
[02:30] <Riddell> would be nice
[02:30] <Riddell> well, no, it would be a crappy brand, but would be nice to make things equal
[02:30] <sebas> But hard, it's a messy identity that needs to be fixed.
[02:30] <sebas> Exactly.
[02:31] <sebas> One would need to put quite some thought into this, goes with technical stuff such as "what's a desktop"?
[02:32] <sebas> I'd say "the company is Canonical, the products are Ubuntu, antlbagguz (the new name for Kubuntu) and Snurkfroggl (the new xfce thing)" would work much better
[02:33] <sebas> People understand that a company can have different product lines for different needs (target groups), they don't understand than different desktops run on the same base system.
[02:33] <sebas> We've been through that, though :)
[02:33] <Riddell> changing the Kubuntu brand is pretty much a non-starter
[02:33] <Riddell> but creating an umbrella brand would be nice
[02:34] <sebas> Umbrella branding is really hard to do, and I think it's quite impossible with the current situation (without renaming *all* desktop, which is even more a non-starter)
[02:35] <sebas> ANother problem is that I'm not aware of a real product vision, such as "Ubuntu is for boring business use while Kubuntu is for exciting home users and extrovert weirdo's" or something like that.
[02:36] <sebas> To me, currently it's "we'd lose customers if we don't offer KDE", and that's hardly a product vision
[02:37] <Riddell> that's because both desktops are trying to cover as much market as possible
[02:37] <Riddell> no point in Kubuntu specialising if KDE isn't, and I don't want KDE to specialise
[02:37] <Riddell> same for Ubuntu/gnome I'm sure
[02:38] <Hobbsee> hi all
[02:39] <Riddell> morning
[02:39] <jjesse> morning Hobbsee
[02:39] <sebas> Riddell: Well, it's not about specialising KDE, but specialising the product.
[02:39] <Hobbsee> :(
[02:39] <Riddell> but I want everyone to love us!
[02:39] <Hobbsee> * :)
[02:39] <sebas> KDE is raw product, to make it a 'real' product, specialising is good.
[02:40] <sebas> Sure, it should be generally usable, but from a business POV, it makes sense to specialise.
[02:40] <sebas> Breadth can be bad, because it makes you lose profile.
[02:40] <mhb> IMHO we'd lose a lot of users if we specialised Kubuntu, which would result in less volunteers, etc
[02:41] <sebas> For KDE, we're trying to create sub-brands and get those out.
[02:41] <sebas> For example showing KDE EDU as its own brand (sure it has other specialised software available, but by showing too much, you blur the strong message)
[02:42] <sebas> I'm not talking "let's do this", by the way. Only clarifying general concepts.
[02:43] <mhb> sebas: is there anyone in the distro market having a specialised KDE version?
[02:43] <mhb> most of them have KDE and GNOME as (mostly) equal choices
[02:44] <sebas> mhb: Skolelinux for example, Xandros and Linspire as well
[02:44] <sebas> Don't think in distro's, think in products for target markets, then it makes sense.
[02:45] <sebas> For desktops, it's also a geographical thing, Europe is more KDE territory, not offering KDE makes you lose large parts of the european market.
[02:45] <sebas> Likewise South America, lots of KDE fans there.
[02:46] <_marseillais> :) a friend of mine just told me that she wants mandriva in place of kubuntu because of kde's dragon missing in kdm login and delog.....
[02:46] <sebas> Point is, you don't need to target those that ask for KDE, just make sure everyone knows that you're offering good KDE stuff
[02:46] <sebas> marseillai: There you see KDE's strategy succeeding :-)
[02:46] <sebas> Which is Make people aware and love KDE, then have them choose a distro which offers KDE
[02:46] <Riddell> marseillai: show her our web site front page
[02:47] <mhb> sebas: IRC's no good for long ramblings .o)
[02:47] <sebas> Right.
[02:48] <sebas> I'm escaping dealing with badly written webforms though.
[02:48] <sebas> Kind of elusive behaviour
[02:48] <mhb> sebas: but you are having at least a bit of a point IMO
[02:49] <sebas> Thanks :P
[02:51] <_marseillais> Riddell, she find it just lovely!
[02:51] <Riddell> should be enough dragons for everyone
[02:51] <_marseillais> the same in kdm and she's almost the happiest girl in the world
[02:52] <_marseillais> but she prefer kde's dragon
[02:52] <Jucato> give me a few secs...
[02:52] <_marseillais> what's his name ?
[02:52] <_marseillais> of kde's gradon
[02:53] <Jucato> Konqi
[02:53] <Hobbsee> mmm...dragons...
[02:53] <_marseillais> yes Jucato now i remember
[02:53] <_marseillais> thanks
[02:54] <Jucato> _marseillais: http://kubuntuforums.net/forums/index.php?topic=3080988.msg59783#msg59783
[02:58] <mhb> sebas: I thought the goal is "to provide the best KDE around"
[02:59] <mhb> sebas: best probably as in balanced in performance, usability and features
[02:59] <sebas> That's hardly a goal, that's a means.
[03:00] <sebas> A goal would be  "Get 40% of computer users worldwide to use KDE desktops"
[03:00] <sebas> Just as an example, of course the 40% is just a joke, far too low.
[03:01] <_marseillais> Jucato, she find that very cool
[03:01] <_marseillais> :)
[03:01] <_marseillais> she's happy
[03:01] <Jucato> I thought she'd be :)
[03:01] <mhb> sebas: yes, that's a goal of a product ... truth is, I sometimes think of kubuntu as a project, not a product
[03:02] <_marseillais> and happy girl is just making me happy....
[03:02] <_marseillais> :)
[03:02] <sebas> In branding terms compared to the other Ubuntu things, it's more a product.
[03:02] <sebas> A project is quite a bad name for that, btw.
[03:02] <sebas> A project has a well-defined ending
[03:02] <mhb> sebas: yes, but compared to ubuntu a lot of things are lacking, no kubuntu marketing team for instance
[03:02] <sebas> Which Kubuntu I think has not
[03:02] <sebas> Right, no marketing, exactly my point.
[03:08] <mhb> sebas: but if canonical supports the development of kubuntu, they have to have a good reason for that
[03:08] <sebas> Yes, customers that want KDE
[03:09] <Lure> Riddell, Hobbsee: kdepim temporary fix for build failure: http://muse.19inch.net/~lure/gutsy/kdepim.debdiff
[03:09] <Hobbsee> Lure: +++ /tmp/Ox7XvvA4y5/kdepim-3.5.7/debian/kdepim-dev.install	2007-05-24 13:06:46.000000000 +0000 isnt needed, against my latest packages
[03:10] <mhb> sebas: then "providing the best KDE around" is the goal, isn't it? That's exactly what the customers desire.
[03:10] <Hobbsee> but those are correct against the current archive version
[03:10] <mhb> sebas: and customers are the reason why C. supports Kubuntu
[03:11] <sebas> That's reacting to existing markets, while the biggest opportunities lie in new markets.
[03:12] <mhb> sebas: could be - the goals can be reshaped, of course
[03:13] <Lure> Hobbsee: right, I have used the version from archive
[03:13] <Lure> Hobbsee: feel free to adopt it to your version to fix build
[03:18] <Lure> _marseillais: you can switch back to old konqi logout with config file change...
[03:18] <_marseillais> Lure, yes Jucato show me how to do
[03:19] <Lure> _marseillais: yep, I see the link now... ;-)
[03:19] <Jucato> :)
[03:19] <Riddell> Lure: great, uploading
[03:19] <Jucato> _StefanS_ is so going to kill me :)
[03:21] <Lure> Jucato: it is his fault anyhow - he has implemented the config option ;-)
[03:21] <Jucato> hehe :)
[03:35] <mhb> sebas: what are your suggestion for the goals of Kubuntu?
[03:36] <mhb> suggetions
[03:41] <mhb> sebas: we would have to define the goals, define the target audience, then perhaps an analysis of what the audience wants, then create specs (in LP) in accordance with the needs of the audience...
[03:41] <sebas> Jep. That's the right way (roughly)
[03:41] <jjesse> shouldn't that be further discussed at the kubuntu mtg?
[03:41] <sebas> And a lot of work, too.
[03:41] <sebas> What's an MTG?
[03:41] <mhb> sebas: this topic fits well for the UDS discussion, I thought you were there
[03:41] <mhb> sebas: did you not talk about that?
[03:42] <sebas> I was there, yes, not really.
[03:42] <mhb> mtg = meeting
[03:42] <mhb> probably
[03:43] <sebas> Uhm, why during the meeting?
[03:43] <jjesse> isn't that were the kubuntu team discusses this so more people can add contrstutive criticism?
[03:43] <sebas> This kind of stuff starts endless discussion of people who want to tell what they think while they totally lack the background. The perfect way to destroy a meeting.
[03:44] <sebas> No, that's where decisions are being made. I don't see this.
[03:44] <Hobbsee> seems like ML material, maybe
[03:44] <sebas> Especially not when nobody wants to put work into it.
[03:44] <sebas> For me, I don't really have time I can put into it.
[03:45] <sebas> It would be cool if some people started thinking about this, I can probably lend some experience then.
[03:45] <sebas> But that means a lot of work.
[03:49] <Hobbsee> jjesse: that's teh ML.  not all kubuntu people can make the mtg
[03:50] <mhb> Hobbsee: I don't think there is a target audience for kubuntu yet
[03:50] <sebas> I think there is, only nobody thought how to align Kubuntu with that.
[03:50] <Hobbsee> wlel, no, but who would we want the target audience to be?
[03:50] <sebas> Which means first finding out what it is.
[03:51] <mhb> Hobbsee: that is the question
[03:51] <Hobbsee> 42!
[03:53] <Lure> Hobbsee: that is the answer
[03:53] <Hobbsee> exactly!
[04:02] <mhb> sebas: IMHO we need to spread the word (what you said) a bit, in order to gain more attention and perhaps those sought volunteers
[04:03] <mhb> sebas: a mail into the ML perhaps
[04:05] <sebas> That might work
[04:17] <jjesse> isn't that what mailing lists are for?
[04:20] <viviersf> Riddell, can we talk about kubuntu kde packages tomorrow plz
[04:21] <Riddell> viviersf: sure
[04:21] <sebas> Did I miss the date for a meeting, btw?
[04:22] <Hobbsee> Lure: did you want to push that kdepim update, or do i?
[04:22] <Hobbsee> sebas: i suck.   you havent missed it.
[04:22] <Lure> Hobbsee: Riddell already did
[04:22] <Hobbsee> right
[04:22] <sebas> Would a note be sent to kubuntu-devel? (That'd work for me.)
[04:22] <Hobbsee> sebas: of course.
[04:22] <sebas> Cool :)
[04:22] <Hobbsee> sebas: the problem is that i suck, and really havent gotten back in control of anything since i get back.
[04:23] <Lure> meeting? we didn't have one for a long time... ;-)
[04:23] <Hobbsee> Lure: yes.
[04:23] <sebas> Hobbsee: Not a problem, I was just asking myself if I missed something, which I didn
[04:24] <sebas> t, which in turn, is fine. :-)
[04:24] <Hobbsee> sebas: heh.
[04:24] <Hobbsee> it's really bad - i need to get in control again.
[04:24] <Hobbsee> but, i've done a lot of the kde packages for gutsy, so at least that's something.
[04:25] <Riddell> makes me happy :)
[04:25] <Riddell> time for me to 0wn gutsy-changes, kde-i18n uploading
[04:25] <Hobbsee> woo!
[04:27] <Hobbsee> uh oh.  i'm being emailed by the tech board.
[04:27] <Riddell> oh, do we need to all give testimony on how you should be a core-dev?
[04:28] <Hobbsee> think it's already been done, for the most part.
[04:29] <Hobbsee> but a word from you probably wouldnt hurt, being Mr Kubuntu, and all.
[04:29] <Hobbsee> seeing as everyone else has replied isnt a kubuntu-specifc person, for the most part
[04:29] <Riddell> where does this happen?
[04:30] <Hobbsee> motu-council mailing list, i think, who then sent it to the tech board
[04:30] <Hobbsee> The MOTU Council notified us of your interest in joining the core
[04:30] <Hobbsee> development team.  Thanks for expressing your interest in further
[04:30] <Hobbsee> contributions to the development of Ubuntu.
[04:30] <Hobbsee> Typically, we interview core developer applicants on IRC during a regularly
[04:30] <Hobbsee> scheduled meeting.  However, based on the time zone you have indicated in
[04:30] <Hobbsee> Launchpad, this would be at 0500 local time, so I'm open to making a
[04:30] <Hobbsee> different arrangement for you to meet with us at a more reasonable time of
[04:30] <Hobbsee> day.
[04:30] <Hobbsee> Would you like to propose a time?
[04:32] <Hobbsee> sebas: dunno.  tech board is busy, so they fob work off to motu council.  motu council is also busy, but everyhting is on their ML anyway.
[04:32] <Hobbsee> sebas: it's very beurocratic now, yes.
[04:33] <sebas> I've no idea how all that works, and somehow I refuse to learn it.
[04:33] <Hobbsee> !sru
[04:33] <ubotu> Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates for main and restricted, while https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/SRU is for universe and multiverse.
[04:33] <Hobbsee> heh
[04:51] <mhb> manchicken_: I've had a thought ... adept (especially updater) usually prompts a kdesu passcheck before any window opens...
[04:52] <mhb> manchicken_: I think there should be a window before that, telling people why do they have to input their password
[04:52] <sebas> Can't that be passed to kdesu somehow?
[04:52] <mhb> sebas: not at this moment, I'm afraid
[04:52] <mhb> sebas: gksudo does that, kdesu don't, AFAIK
[04:53] <manchicken_> mhb: I'm wondering if kdesu had that in.
[04:53] <sebas> Hm, it's dumb
[04:54] <mhb> manchicken_: and another thing, why does adept_updater have a welcome screen?
[04:54] <manchicken_> A better question :)
[04:55] <mhb> the user should know what it is before he submits the password...afterwards it's pretty clear he wants the upgrade to happen
[04:55] <Jucato> :)
[04:55] <manchicken_> Well, it's good to give the "these are the packages needing updates, wanna do it?
[04:55] <manchicken_> "
[04:55] <sebas> Another dialogue you have to click away sounds annoying to me
[04:56] <manchicken_> sebas: Agreed.
[04:56] <manchicken_> I think maybe have better text in kdesu's dialog may be a better choice.
[04:56] <Jucato> manchicken_: maybe you don't have to click fetch updates to actually fetch the upates, just present the Apply Updates or Forget it button?
[04:57] <manchicken_> Jucato: My thoughts exactly.
[04:57] <manchicken_> Someone should draw up a spec for this :)
[04:57] <Jucato> heh :)
[04:57] <manchicken_> *cough*mhb*cough*
[04:58] <mhb> yeah, I can do it
[04:58] <Jucato> *cough*yay*cough*
[04:58] <manchicken_> heh
[04:58] <mhb> manchicken_: but I think one dialog is enough
[04:59] <mhb> manchicken_: and we can't get rid of the kdesu dialog, so I'd vote for better description on that one
[05:00] <mhb> something like - "Insert your password to upgrade your system." Command: adept_updater
[05:00] <manchicken_> Yeah.
[05:00] <mhb> instead of the "Insert your password" line
[05:00] <manchicken_> I think those would be two different specs.
[05:00] <manchicken_> One for the kdesu issue and one for the adept welcome screen.
[05:00] <manchicken_> I'll do the adept welcome screen spec if you do the kdesu
[05:03] <mhb> sounds fair
[05:03] <manchicken_> Best wiki page URL ever
[05:03] <manchicken_> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuAdeptUpdateWelcomeScreenNeedsToDie
[05:04] <Jucato> lol
[05:04] <Hobbsee> haha
[05:20] <manchicken_> Wow, the spec template got longer.
[05:21] <DaSkreech> manchicken_: I haven't looked at the spec for Gib Yet. I'm betting we want Kubuntu to look prettier?
[05:31] <manchicken_> Gib?
[05:31] <yuriy> manchicken,mhb: any idea how to do the kdesu thing? i was thinking about that too but i couldn't think of a very good way to do it
[05:33] <manchicken_> yuriy: No idea.  Worst comes to worse we could just subclass the kdesu dialog and modify it :)
[05:33] <yuriy> because one of the things with it should be that when the user sees that, they should know that they are launching the updater
[05:34] <yuriy> like some way to prevent having somebody else making a dialog that gives the same text the actual one does and have the user put in a password
[05:34] <yuriy> or am i thinking too much into this?
[05:34] <manchicken_> Well, I think that's a good question.
[05:34] <manchicken_> We should probably try to find some newer users and ask them these questions.
[05:35] <hunger> yuriy: How will you make sure that nobody else just imitates what you are going to do?
[05:35] <yuriy> hunger: exactly.. no idea.
[05:36] <hunger> But that was not X based;-)
[05:36] <yuriy> but anyways, other than _that, could we ship a file with descriptions for the commands that are launched with kdesu from the kmenu and patch kdesu to search that?
[05:36] <mhb> yuriy: well
[05:36] <mhb> yuriy: kdesu can already display a custom icon
[05:36] <mhb> we could use the adept "package" icon to show that something with packages is about to happen
[05:36] <yuriy> mhb: oh that's nice. does it? i've never noticed
[05:37] <mhb> yuriy: it does, AFAIK - try kdesu --help
[05:38] <DaSkreech> manchicken_: Gutsy
[05:38] <mhb> yuriy: then we could patch kdesu to be able to display a custom message instead of the "Insert your password." line
[05:38] <yuriy> i mean, on kubuntu right now, it doesn't show the adept icon when launching adept. would that just be a matter of changing the shortcut?
[05:38] <manchicken_> Gotcha.
[05:40] <mhb> yuriy: most likely
[05:42] <mhb> yuriy: you never noticed? :o) some guidance tools (userconfig) uses this particular feature
[05:42] <yuriy> ah, with the administrator button?
[05:44] <hunger> No updates today? What is wrong? Buildds still busy chewing through KDE?
[05:45] <DaSkreech> Hi hunger
[05:45] <hunger> Hi DaSkreech.
[05:46] <Hobbsee> hunger: means i've been at uni, and no one else has done them.  although i thought kdepim went thru
[05:46] <DaSkreech> Hobbsee: that's what you were building?
[05:47] <Hobbsee> yes
[05:47] <yuriy> hmm, there isn't really anything other than adept that uses kdesu in the kmenu is there, heh.
[05:47] <Hobbsee> i havent touched kdepim in a day or so
[05:47] <hunger> Anyone working on a fix for knetworkmanager by the way?
[05:48] <Hobbsee> hunger: already done in kdepim
[05:49] <DaSkreech> Qtparted?
[05:50] <yuriy> if adept is the only thing, then patching to add descriptions might be overboard, the icon would be nice though. <- manchicken
[05:52] <mhb> well, patching to add descriptions will be useful elsewhere, too
[05:53] <mhb> nobody uses it because it doesn't exist - but if it did, I'm sure more apps could make use of it
[05:54] <nixternal> oi oi mornin' mornin'!
[05:55] <mhb> nixternal: good morning!
[05:55] <DaSkreech> Hi nixternal
[05:55] <nixternal> hola!
[05:55] <DaSkreech> still not telling mewhere tochange the files?
[05:56] <manchicken_> That spec is done.
[05:57] <mhb> nixternal: I'm triaging a report which states that Debian's KDE is faster than Kubuntu's ... you seem to be working with debian folks lately (IIRC), did you notice something like that?
[05:57] <nixternal> hrmm
[05:58] <nixternal> my Debian KDE isn't faster
[05:58] <nixternal> it is the same if you ask me
[05:58] <nixternal> Debian KDE == stripped all to hell
[05:58] <nixternal> well not stripped...but vanilla
[05:59] <mhb> nixternal: that's what I thought
[05:59] <nixternal> mhb: do you have any examples on what may be quicker?
[06:00] <nixternal> from login to desktop is quick, but that could be because I have stuff starting up on my lappy that isn't on my desktop
[06:01] <nixternal> I just waited 30+ seconds for Adept to fire up after clicking the notifier icon on the bottom
[06:03] <mhb> nixternal: no, I'm waiting on the input from the bug reporter
[06:03] <nixternal> ahh, ok
[06:25] <DaSkreech> nixternal: Cough and look to the left?
[06:25] <nixternal> that was about 20 years ago for high school sports
[06:26] <DaSkreech> I think my eye is bleeding
[06:45] <DaSkreech> Omgoodness konqueror and gmail are broken :)
[06:48] <Hobbsee> what, again?
[06:51] <DaSkreech> It was patched?
[06:51] <DaSkreech> I'm on a live cd so no updates :)
[06:51] <Hobbsee> oh so pre .
[06:51] <Hobbsee> 7
[06:54] <DaSkreech> Yeah
[07:03] <nixternal> what is the kio thing for konqi that allows you to search packages?
[07:03] <nixternal> nevermind
[07:03] <nixternal> apt:/
[07:07] <DaSkreech> apt:/
[07:09] <meven> i have a simple question about C++
[07:09] <Hobbsee> shoot
[07:09] <meven> how can i suspend a kapp until a kprocess sends its exited signal
[07:10] <Hobbsee> #kde-devel is a more appropriate place
[07:10] <meven> sory
[08:23] <yuriy> hmm i think i'm going to make a kde-media tag for media/cd bugs. or do we already have something like that?
[08:24] <Hobbsee> just file lots of things upstream
[08:24] <Hobbsee> if you're working on the buglist
[08:24] <yuriy> buglist?
[08:25] <Hobbsee> kde bugs
[08:25] <Hobbsee> bugs on malone == buglist
[08:27] <_StefanS_> evening
[08:27] <Hobbsee> hiya
[08:27] <_StefanS_> Jucato: hey, hows that new monitor of yours?
[08:27] <_StefanS_> Hey Hobbs, Jucatoh :)
[08:28] <Riddell> DaSkreech: one the CD?
[08:28] <Riddell> s/one/on/
[08:29] <DaSkreech> Riddell: Yeah I found a bug/typo
[08:29] <Riddell> DaSkreech: what's that?
[08:30] <DaSkreech> Riddell: In the disctree/en/kubuntu.html it says that Kubuntu ships with KDE 3.4
[08:31] <_StefanS_> Riddell: knetworkmanager, and support for LEAP is done. I depends on features in networkmanager 0.6.5, so I dont know if its ready for gutsy yet?
[08:32] <Riddell> DaSkreech: that's just put together by heno from various places, probably about kubuntu
[08:32] <Riddell> DaSkreech: I'd really like to see about kubuntu and the those winfoss info pages improved for gutsy
[08:33] <Riddell> _StefanS_: is there a knetworkmanager release?
[08:33] <Riddell> _StefanS_: we probably have to wait for networkmanager 0.6.5 in any case
[08:33] <_StefanS_> Riddell: you're thinking 0.2 ?
[08:34] <_StefanS_> Riddell: not yet, should I just submit it upstream?
[08:34] <yuriy> Riddell: it's just html? improved looks or content?
[08:38] <DaSkreech> Riddell: Thought I'd just change it to something correct :)
[08:40] <yuriy> anyways, is someone working on a new website? then the style from the website should be used on the docs, right?
[08:42] <jjesse> the sytle for the docs and website should match in my view
[08:42] <jjesse> nixternal: what do you think?
[08:44] <Lure> _StefanS_: ubuntu still has nm 0.6.4 only, we have to wait for 0.6.5
[08:44] <Lure> _StefanS_: but you should push it upstream (for 0.2)
[08:45] <_StefanS_> Lure: I will do that, and wait for it to come downwards into kubuntu :)
[08:49] <nixternal> jjesse: +++11111
[08:50] <nixternal> reboot time
[08:53] <yuriy> (bug 103972) any chance of libarts1-mpeglib being installed by default?
[08:53] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 103972 in kdebase "Konqueror audio preview doesnt work" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/103972
[08:56] <Riddell> _StefanS_: sure
[08:56] <_StefanS_> anyone know how to have previous bash history available even though you quit konsole/xterm (shouldn't it be sourced automatically?)
[08:56] <Riddell> yuriy: content for about kubuntu, it's docbook in the ubuntu docs svn repository
[08:58] <DaSkreech> nixternal: I tried :-)
[09:01] <nixternal> what did you try?
[09:02] <DaSkreech> To fix the file on the live Cd :)
[09:05] <nixternal> ahhh
[11:36] <DaSkreech> Night!
[11:39] <meven_>  www.dell.com/open that's done


[16:16] <jrwren> https://boards.greenhouse.io/wikimedia/jobs/1171069?gh_src=6a42a4871 :)
[16:23] <greg-g> it's a great team!
[16:23] <greg-g> https://wikimediafoundation.org/w/index.php?title=Staff_and_contractors&showall=1#Wikimedia_Cloud_Services
[16:28] <brousch> Oh, remote. I thought it was all in SF
[16:29] <greg-g> You can, but you don't have to
[16:29] <greg-g> you just cost more if you live in SF :)
[16:44] <cmaloney> heh
[17:02] <greg-g> cmaloney: btw, is your auto-birthday-email script no longer running? I didn't get an email today from you!
[17:02] <jrwren> greg-g: Happy Birthday!
[17:03] <cmaloney> It's not a script. I literally type those in by hand
[17:03] <cmaloney> I'm just not original
[17:03] <cmaloney> I sent it to you via Mastodon DM
[17:03] <daemoneye> greg-g: Happy Birthday!
[17:04] <cmaloney> But yeah, I think everyone thinks that I've scripted that up
[17:11] <cmaloney> greg-g: Did you see it there?
[17:18] <greg-g> cmaloney: I don't see anything from you in my notifications recently except favoriting my reply to Vicky re butter coffee
[17:20] <cmaloney> https://twitter.com/right_drum/status/1013320220499312640
[17:20] <cmaloney> feh
[17:21] <rick_h_> hmmm, I really wish I knew what I'd done in my life to be put on this list. https://photos.app.goo.gl/736dPtjs5AShNRy57
[17:21] <cmaloney> feh
[17:22] <cmaloney> I figured out why greg-g didn't get my birthdat DM
[17:23] <cmaloney> rick_h_: Yipes.  My wife likes to joke that I'm more hippie than she is and she's the doctor taking care of the sick.
[17:26] <greg-g> rick_h_: I'm sorry for your hardship (re Melania)
[17:26] <rick_h_> LoL
[17:27] <brousch> Did you buy the same jacket?
[17:27] <jrwren> lol, rick_h_ too funny
[17:27] <rick_h_> brousch: didn't everyone got get 3 in various colors?
[17:28] <rick_h_> go get
[17:29] <jrwren> I liked all of the "I do care" t-shirts, jackets, and signs at the Rally on Saturday
[17:30] <brousch> Rally?
[17:30] <jrwren> Keep Families Together Rally w/ events nation wide.
[17:31] <jrwren> https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/detroit/2018/06/30/protest-immigration-detroit-zero-tolerance/748381002/
[17:32] <jrwren> oh, here is a better one listing cities: https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2018/06/27/family-separations-immigration-protest-michigan/737477002/
[17:34] <cmaloney> Yeah, there were a bunch of protests / rallies this past weekend
[17:41] <brousch> OH yeah, I think some people got arrested in GR
[17:43] <jrwren> no arrests in Ann Arbor that I noticed.
[18:06] <brousch> Maybe not in GR. That was on the 28th
[18:06] <greg-g> what was o the 28?
[18:06] <greg-g> on*
[18:06] <greg-g> I mean, which protest?
[18:07] <brousch> PRe-protest demonstration?
[18:07] <brousch> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjUXqeEir98
[18:08] <greg-g> "What do we want?" "Abolish ICE" "When do we want it" "In two days!"
[18:08] <greg-g> ah, yeah, good
[18:09] <greg-g> Necessary Trouble (TM)
[18:28] <cmaloney> "We have a timeline and a project plan too"
[18:29] <cmaloney> "and key deliverables"
[18:29] <cmaloney> polite protest


[12:12] <toabctl> could somebody nominate https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/iptables/+bug/1917920 for hirsute, focal and bionic please
[12:12] <toabctl> and hi btw :)


[05:15] <ronj> Hi, I'm coming for help to provide the debug info requested by Herton on https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/904569 . In the mentioned guide ( https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/Reference/S3SystemTapDebug ), I fail to complete step 1.4 ( sudo apt-get install linux-image-$(uname -r)-dbgsym ) because, as confirmed by a quick lookup in synaptic, there is no such package as that (-dbysym is only available till 3.0.0-12). What can I do to still provide the information
[05:15] <ronj>  requested? Thanks.
[05:15] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 904569 in linux "Linux 3.0.0-15-generic-pae causes laptops to fail to resume from suspend (Dell XPS 1645, Sony Vaio VPCF1390)" [Medium,Confirmed]
[05:20] <ronj> I'll be away but will read answers in a few hours and followup. Cheers.
[05:23] <RAOF> ronj: You'll find the dbgsym packages in the ddeb repository, I believe.  wiki.ubuntu.com/Debugging/DebuggingProgramCrash
[05:23] <ronj> RAOF, yes I installed this repo and updated my sources list
[05:23] <ronj> however, the only -dbgsym I have then is <IP_ADDRESS> , which I guess won't help to isolate my issue on <IP_ADDRESS>
[05:24] <RAOF> Oh, oneiric-updates
[05:24] <RAOF> I'm not entirely sure if they go into the ddeb repository.
[05:25] <ronj> Herton seemed to suggest so. OK I'll wait for his answer on the LP bug
[05:25] <ronj> thanks for the heads up
[05:25] <ronj> good night
[08:40] <ppisati> morning morning... :)
[09:57] <apw> ppisati, moin
[10:46] <cking> brr, chilly today
[10:47] <apw> cking, yeeks 2.8c thats ... frigic
[10:47] <apw> id
[10:47] <cking> yup
[10:47] <cking> wife took kids out and turned off the heating.
[10:47] <apw> OW
[10:48] <cking> I wondered why it was cold in the office
[10:51] <apw> heh, no wonder
[12:01]  * ppisati -> away for 10mins...
[14:45] <ppisati> "
[14:49] <apw> "?
[14:52] <_ruben> quite a meaningful quote :)
[14:55] <apw> indeeeed sir
[15:12] <ppisati> screen keystroke
[15:15] <ppisati> the kexec patchset for arm is around ~70 patches
[15:15] <apw> ppisati, kexec patchset, fixing what ?
[15:15] <ppisati> kexec on arm
[15:15] <ppisati> at least on omap4
[15:15] <apw> how did it end up that broken
[15:15] <ppisati> it never worked there :)
[15:16] <ppisati> well
[15:16] <ppisati> it's a "framework" patchset from rmk (how to properly reset the zillions of different arm boards)
[15:16] <ppisati> plus
[15:16] <ppisati> 6/7 patches for kexec itself
[15:19] <apw> do we use kexec there at all?  is it being asked for ?
[15:33]  * ogasawara back in 20
[16:29] <arges> tgardner, got a wireless question for you. on someones machine, if they do modprobe -r iwlagn / modprobe iwlagn, they get 'FATAL: Module ucode_alternative=/lib/firmware/iwlwifi_6050_4.ucode not found.', but the file with s/_/-/ is there. Would this be a configuration issue, or indicative that the ucode file isn't correct? What would be the next thing to check? Thanks
[16:30] <tgardner> arges, seems like the filename might be borked. what kernel version ?
[16:30] <arges> tgardner, oneiric 3.0.0
[16:32] <tgardner> arges, I'm thinking typo in the kernel
[16:35] <arges> tgardner, would dmesg reveal that? i'm thinking of trying modinfo iwlagn, but not sure where else to look
[16:36] <tgardner> arges, I'm checking drivers/net/wireless/iwlwifi/iwl-6000.c
[16:36] <tgardner> arges, '#define IWL6000_FW_PRE "iwlwifi-6000-"' looks right.
[16:37] <apw> tgardner, be suspicious of processing applied to the command line to convert the names of modules, which is needed
[16:44] <apw> arges, http://people.canonical.com/~apw/misc/lp842560-udev/
[17:05] <ogasawara> apw: thanks for doing meta.  I'm going to send out the email/post to blog assuming you haven't started already.
[17:05] <apw> ogasawara, in the middle of it :)
[17:06] <ogasawara> apw: heh, sweet.  carry on :)
[17:06] <apw> ogasawara, good for me to practice on voices
[17:16] <vanhoof> ppisati: heya
[17:27] <ppisati> vanhoof: what's up?
[17:28] <vanhoof> ppisati: was just curious what the official story is for omap3 in precise, it looks like theres still a build around, but just wanted to see if it'll for sure still be around :)
[17:29] <ppisati> vanhoof: i hope so :)
[17:30] <ppisati> vanhoof: no, seriously, no one officialy said we are going to demote it, so if i think it'll still be supported
[17:31] <cking> apw, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/hardware-p-kernel-power-management
[17:32] <Atlantic777> Hi! How can I see default ubuntu kernel config?
[17:32] <apw> Atlantic777, you get it with your kernel, in /boot
[17:34] <ppisati> vanhoof: i heard linaro people are talking about leaving it behind, but AFA Ubuntu is involved, din't hear anything
[17:36] <apw> http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/17881/
[17:38] <vanhoof> ppisati: ack, thanks for the info
[19:42]  * tgardner -> lunch
[19:43] <GrueMaster> tgardner: I hope you are the one to ping.  I am seeing an issue with oneiric linux-generic amd64 not installable from proposed.  Did linux-image-3.0.0-15-generic get pulled?
[19:57] <bjf> GrueMaster: please file a bug
[20:04] <tgardner> GrueMaster, bjf: did some binaries get pocket copied to universe again ?
[20:04] <herton> bjf, hmm may be because some debs went into universe (http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/l/linux/), maybe shank bot running that time wasn't updated with code to check component mismatch
[20:04] <herton> tgardner, looks like that's the case
[20:06] <bjf> SpamapS: ^
[20:07] <bjf> skaet_: ^
[20:23] <GrueMaster> bjf: Looks like the kernel was pulled from -proposed, but the meta is still there.
[20:24] <bjf> GrueMaster: we never pulled the kernel, it seems the kernel went to universe
[20:24] <GrueMaster> It did?  netinstall was failing with -proposed enabled.  Trying with it disabled.
[20:43] <brendand> bjf - hi
[20:43] <brendand> bjf - hypothetically speaking, if we found a problem with CPU offlining would it hold up the SRU?
[20:44] <tgardner> brendand, bjf is really out until Jan 3.
[20:44] <brendand> tgardner - ah, cheers
[20:45] <brendand> tgardner - hey, is a quick chat about iperf ok?
[20:45] <tgardner> brendand, sure
[20:46] <brendand> tgardner - we just got a big run of iperf done in the Montreal lab. maybe 20 systems, something like that
[20:46] <brendand> tgardner - the median seems to be ~40Megabits p/s
[20:47] <tgardner> brendand, I assume you're talking wifi ?
[20:47] <brendand> tgardner - our setup is an iperf server sitting behind a router connected by ethernet
[20:47] <brendand> tgardner - and the systems are talking via wifi to the router
[20:47] <brendand> tgardner - this is 802.11b/g
[20:48] <tgardner> brendand, 40Mbit is pretty good for G
[20:48] <brendand> tgardner - we've got a few stragglers down at sub 10Mbit p/s
[20:49] <brendand> one as low as 3 Mbit p/s
[20:49] <tgardner> brendand, yeah, thats dropping pretty low. any disconnects ?
[20:50] <brendand> tgardner - none evidenced. no dropped packets either
[20:50] <tgardner> brendand, it could be that the rate selection algorithm in use by that particular driver is not very good.
[20:52] <brendand> tgardner - heh, yeah - it's an atheros
[20:53] <tgardner> brendand, hmm. IIRC it uses Minstrel and ought to do better then that. This is Precise ?
[20:54] <brendand> tgardner - yeah
[20:55] <tgardner> brendand, Atheros gets a lot of development. I'm surprised its tat slow.
[20:57] <tgardner> brendand, if you start a bug and dump the HW specifics as well as the AP brand/model and setup I could hassle upstream about it.
[20:59] <brendand> tgardner - ok. thanks
[21:11] <brendand> tgardner - bug 906527. Still waiting for an apport-collect and the router details
[21:11] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 906527 in linux "Toshiba Tecra A11 with AR928X Wireless Network Adapter has poor wireless performance" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/906527
[21:48]  * tgardner -> EOD


[00:57] <ojwb> hmm, i just managed to send a heart emoticon to a client
[00:57] <ojwb> "<3 letters>"
[01:03] <ajmitch> heh
[01:04] <ajmitch> I didn't think it was usually looked on favourably when you send love letters to clients
[01:06] <ojwb> i didn't even notice the "love letters"
[01:06] <ojwb> better than hate mail anyway
[01:25] <ibeardslee> so I had evolution connecting nicely to exchange
[01:25] <ibeardslee> then I had the machine auth with AD with likewise open
[01:26] <ibeardslee> but now evolution segfaults
[01:26] <ajmitch> spectacular
[01:27] <ibeardslee> found some stuff about samba getting in the way .. may be related
[01:28] <ajmitch> sometimes you wonder if anyone seriously uses this stuff in production :)
[01:28] <ibeardslee> yeah I know
[19:14] <ajmitch> morning
[19:20] <karora> morning
[19:32] <chilts> morning
[20:12] <snail> is  http://victoria.lconz.ac.nz/vwebv/search?searchArg=the&sk=vuw&searchCode=GKEY^*&searchType=0 down for other people?
[20:13] <ajmitch> snail: no response yet
[20:19] <snail> ajmitch: thanks
[20:32] <mwhudson> morning
[20:39] <ibeardslee> morning
[20:43] <snail> sometimes i love librarians: i send out a quick summary of an error that we've fixed, mentioning tomcat. someone sends me back: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykRZbOb1c5c


[07:17] <didrocks> good morning
[07:21] <duflu> Morning didrocks
[07:26] <didrocks> hey duflu
[07:33] <oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
[07:40] <didrocks> salut oSoMoN, bon week-end ?
[07:45] <oSoMoN> didrocks, très bon week-end en famille à la montagne, et toi?
[07:45] <didrocks> oSoMoN: pareil, mes parents sont passés pour le week-end, montré où on va faire construire, etc, c'était sympa :)
[07:59] <duflu> Hi oSoMoN
[08:00] <oSoMoN> hey duflu
[08:00] <seb128> k, back, good morning IRC
[08:01] <seb128> hey duflu, lut didrocks oSoMoN, did you guys had a good w.e?
[08:01] <duflu> Morning seb128. Not great. Half of it at the hospital. You?
[08:02] <seb128> urg, sorry for you duflu :-(
[08:02] <oSoMoN> salut seb128, I had a great week-end, and you?
[08:02] <Laney> hey
[08:03] <seb128> w.e was fine here, weather is still nice for the season, we spent some time outside/at the playgrounds and had friends over for dinner on saturday
[08:04] <seb128> hey Laney, had a good beer festival?
[08:04] <didrocks> salut seb128, yeah, good week-end, great that you were able to spend time outside :)
[08:04] <didrocks> hey Laney!
[08:04] <seb128> oh, we also went to the theatre on friday evening, that was nice as well
[08:08] <Laney> hey seb128 didrocks
[08:08] <Laney> festival was good, next morning not so much :-)
[08:10] <duflu> Hi Laney
[08:11] <Laney> what's up duflu
[08:11] <duflu> Stuff
[08:11] <duflu> n things
[08:13] <Laney> ah yes
[08:14] <didrocks> Laney: Heidelberg's effect? :)
[08:15] <Laney> didrocks: nothing will ever beat that
[08:15] <didrocks> heh
[08:15] <Laney> at least i hope not
[08:16] <didrocks> same ;)
[08:16] <Laney> 💀💀💀💀💀
[08:16] <didrocks> "on a scale from 0 to Heidelberg, how was it?" :))
[08:23] <Laney> ah that's easy, Heidelberg * 0.25
[08:24] <didrocks> heh
[08:50] <didrocks> Trevinho: I would like your opinion on my fix in https://code.launchpad.net/~didrocks/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+git/gnome-shell/+merge/357609 (this is why I did a MP). I don't see any other way to have realpath() accessible to gjs. This is to fix bug #1798747. I don't think this is really upstreamable as there is no support for theming (and even less for symlinks/alternatives…)
[09:08] <andyrock> didrocks: are you using gbp?
[09:11] <didrocks> andyrock: I didn't on that one, because I worked on the source package
[09:12] <didrocks> directly (other machine, vm, as --replace is broken in GNOME Shell :/)
[09:12] <didrocks> the patch applies though, shouldn't change its content :p
[09:49] <Laney> didrocks: that looks like it leaks to me, realpath() is transfer full afaik
[09:49] <Laney> no comment on the rest of it, just drive by :P
[09:52] <didrocks> Laney: exactly!
[09:52] <didrocks> but I don't know if gjs will GC it
[09:52] <didrocks> or how you can do it to pass the value back to gjs which isn't invalidated
[09:52] <didrocks> (this is why I'm asking from some people who might be more familiar than I am with C/gjs interaction)
[09:53] <didrocks> I didn't find any example in the code of passing back something which has to be allocated on the heap…
[10:00] <Laney> didrocks: char * not const char * and strdup in the second case, maybe you need to write "Returns (transfer full):" too for the annotations?
[10:01] <Laney> (g_strdup)
[10:03] <didrocks> Laney: well, g_strdup will still allocate on the heap another variable on the heap, wouldn't it? I don't see the difference with the one allocated by realpath(), but yeah, maybe "Returns (transfer full):" annotation is what I'm missing?
[10:04] <didrocks> I'm sure Trevinho knows about all this if you are unsure :)
[10:04] <Laney> I'm not really unsure
[10:05] <didrocks> why doing a g_strdup? Wouldn't the annotation be sufficient without another alloc?
[10:05]  * didrocks adds the annotation thus
[10:05] <Laney> if you add that you are telling the caller to free the return value
[10:06] <didrocks> sure, so, I need to remove the const
[10:06] <Laney> in the "return path" case that is the value that the caller passed in
[10:06] <Laney> so you free their string
[10:06] <didrocks> oh correct
[10:06] <didrocks> ok, didn't get where you wanted to strdup()
[10:06] <didrocks> makes sense thus
[10:06] <Laney> nod
[10:06] <didrocks> thanks Laney! I'll change this after lunch and have a test run
[10:07] <Laney> np!
[10:07] <didrocks> Laney: is that documented anywhere? My google foo didn't find the annotation part for gjs?
[10:08] <Laney> don't know about gjs, those are gobject-introspection annotations
[10:08] <didrocks> oh ok, maybe googling with gobject-introspection would have been better than gjs
[10:09] <Laney> yah, although that doesn't have the world's best documentation either :(
[10:10] <didrocks> ok :( at least I know, now, thanks!
[10:19] <didrocks> changed, tested and pushed the new rev, works well
[10:19] <didrocks> let's now just wait if there is an alternative without exposing realpath() manually
[10:36] <jibel> sil2100, did you see bug 1799097
[10:36] <jibel> ?
[10:37] <jibel> we missed it last week
[10:42] <clobrano> good morning all o/
[10:43] <clobrano> didrocks: it seems that Yaru-dark has been released with Cosmic, but only gtk3 part :|
[10:59] <sil2100> Ouchy
[11:34] <Trevinho> didrocks: when you've a sec https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/ubuntu/+source/gnome-session/+git/gnome-session/+merge/357620 :)
[11:46] <seb128> good morning Trevinho :)
[12:30] <didrocks> clobrano: I don't think so, why are yo saying this?
[12:31] <didrocks> Trevinho: only when you reviewed mine (see above) :)
[12:32] <didrocks> clobrano: I guess you mean /usr/share/themes/Yaru-dark/gtk-3.0/gtk.css, but that's needed for application which are choosing the "dark" variant of current theme
[12:32] <didrocks> like GNOME Boxes
[12:32] <didrocks> even if you selected the "light theme"
[12:32] <didrocks> side effect is that I bet tools like Tweaks are showing them :/
[12:33] <clobrano> didrocks: I see, but it seems that users can select it from tweaks
[12:33] <clobrano> https://github.com/ubuntu/yaru/issues/654#issuecomment-431567204
[12:33] <gitbot> ubuntu issue 654 in yaru "Missing gtk2 theme in Yaru" [Closed]
[12:33] <clobrano> ^ having problem when using gtk2 applications of course
[12:34] <didrocks> clobrano: yeah, but well, there are reasons we don't ship Tweaks and such…
[12:35] <didrocks> so, people are expected to know what they do when they install additional software, and nothing we can from preventing them shooting in their feet (only closing bugs…)
[12:35] <clobrano> didrocks: :D I understand
[12:35] <clobrano> yes, I read your other post about this, I was indeed expecting that the reason was the same
[12:36] <ahayzen> defaulting to adwaita rather than raleigh when the theme is missing for gtk2 apps, can make it less horrible :-)
[12:37] <didrocks> clobrano: actually /usr/share/themes/Yaru/gtk-3.0/gtk-dark.css might be enough…
[12:37] <clobrano> ahayzen: indeed, it would be an improvement
[12:37] <didrocks> clobrano: and indeed, there is an issue in the packaging
[12:37] <didrocks> grrr
[12:38] <clobrano> doh
[12:38] <didrocks> I rm after dh_install
[12:38] <didrocks> so, I indeed tested that /usr/share/themes/Yaru/gtk-3.0/gtk-dark.css was enough, my bad
[12:38] <didrocks> clobrano: mind opening a bug?
[12:38] <didrocks> (on launchpad)
[12:38] <didrocks> I will fix it/turn it into a SRU
[12:38] <clobrano> didrocks: sure
[12:39] <didrocks> clobrano: so, if we do a SRU upload, I'll check again, but everything in master is compatible with a SRU, correct? Anything I should wait on?
[12:40] <clobrano> didrocks: I just double checked, the master is the same as Cosmic release now
[12:40] <clobrano> no new content, we were actually waiting to be sure we can go on
[12:41] <jbicha> Tweaks intentionally doesn't require a gtk2 theme any more to show a theme in the theme chooser since it's quite possible to use a system without gtk2 now
[12:41] <jbicha> we could override that for Yaru if we really wanted to though
[12:41] <didrocks> clobrano: hum, there is the poperover fix + treeview + evolution: https://github.com/ubuntu/yaru/commits/master
[12:41] <didrocks> but they are fine
[12:41] <didrocks> popover*
[12:42] <clobrano> ok
[12:42] <didrocks> clobrano: anything particular you want to fix before we release? (could be later this week)
[12:42] <didrocks> (or pending on someone to fix? :))
[12:44] <clobrano> didrocks: there is the suru icons update ready to be merged and this one as well https://github.com/ubuntu/yaru/pull/899
[12:44] <gitbot> ubuntu issue (Pull request) 899 in yaru "Post cosmic release: infobars request color change & less upstream diff" [Open]
[12:44] <didrocks> clobrano: hum, a little bit large for a SRU (and more cleanups)
[12:45] <didrocks> + color changes
[12:45] <didrocks> which isn't really SRU-materials
[12:45] <clobrano> didrocks: I see
[12:45] <didrocks> (minor adjustements are ok, if there is a rationale)
[12:45] <didrocks> unsure what sil2100 thinks for instance ^
[12:45] <clobrano> I understand, then no, no other PRs
[12:47] <ahayzen> didrocks, what happens to someone that has selected Yaru-dark as their theme and then this update occurs ?  I know it is effectively an unsupported path as they used Tweaks, but does it fallback to the default theme or something?
[12:47] <didrocks> clobrano: ok, I will cut a release later today
[12:47] <clobrano> thanks
[12:47] <didrocks> ahayzen: that's a good question, I'm afraid it will fallback to Adwaita, as for people who have manually set communitheme by default
[12:48] <didrocks> rather than using the session
[12:48] <ahayzen> ok, well they managed to use Tweaks to change to Yaru-dark so they can probably figure out how to change it to something else if it does go to Adwaita. Just as long as they aren't in a totally broken state :-)
[12:49] <didrocks> ahayzen: that's the rationale :)
[12:50] <didrocks> funny, we just had that discussion on the hub btw (but with "communitheme")
[12:50] <jbicha> didrocks: what about just installing the Yaru (non-dark) gtk2 theme to Yaru-dark?
[12:50] <clobrano> didrocks: it seems that communitheme project on launchpad is not completely configured, is that possible?
[12:50] <clobrano> ^ configured to open bugs
[12:51] <didrocks> jbicha: we didn't intend to ship -dark anyway for now
[12:51] <didrocks> clobrano: "yaru-theme" package: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/yaru-theme
[12:51] <clobrano> oh, looking for "yaru" did't find any project...
[12:52] <didrocks> yeah, the source package has -theme
[12:55] <didrocks> clobrano: and then, mind reviewing this very complicated change to not ship dark theme? https://github.com/ubuntu/yaru/pull/929 :p
[12:55] <gitbot> didrocks: Error: ubuntu: Impossible to get infos for ubuntu/yaru issue 929: 404 {'message': 'Not Found', 'documentation_url': 'https://developer.github.com/v3/issues/#get-a-single-issue'}
[12:56] <didrocks> (the idea is: "really install in package AFTER removing the files…)
[12:56] <didrocks> "
[12:56] <didrocks> did a local build, and indeed, works as expected…
[12:57] <clobrano> didrocks: it seems that the link is wrong
[12:57] <Trevinho> didrocks: ah, I noticed the mention for the gjs thing but not the one for the mp, on it on that
[12:57] <clobrano> didrocks: in the meantime https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/yaru-theme/+bug/1799217
[12:58] <didrocks> clobrano: waow, I just copied the PR once opened, and I still have it here with that URL
[12:58] <didrocks> but it disappeared, wth?
[12:58] <didrocks> clobrano: thanks for the bug!
[12:58] <didrocks> Trevinho: thx ;)
[12:59] <clobrano> yeah, gh is looking for an issue929 instead of a pull, but in the PR list there is nothing anyway
[12:59] <didrocks> right…
[12:59] <didrocks> that's crazy
[12:59] <didrocks> wonder if it's related to yeserday's evening issue
[12:59] <didrocks> really really weird
[12:59] <didrocks> opening a new one
[13:00] <didrocks> Pull request creation failed. Validation failed: A pull request already exists for ubuntu:dont-ship-dark-theme.
[13:00] <didrocks> grrrr
[13:00] <didrocks> NONE LISTED
[13:00] <clobrano> didrocks: I even got the email about the PR... weird
[13:00] <didrocks> clobrano: I guess just click on the branch and the commit: https://github.com/ubuntu/yaru/branches
[13:00] <didrocks> "shadow PR"
[13:00] <didrocks> "turned into an issue before getting killed" :p
[13:01] <didrocks> so, the funny part
[13:01] <didrocks> try to click on "New pull request"
[13:01] <clobrano> didrocks: btw, I approve this very risky change :D
[13:02] <didrocks> you will get the message I showed above ^
[13:02] <didrocks> but there is a "View pull request" button
[13:02] <didrocks> which shows it, with the same URL than initially
[13:02] <didrocks> copy the link, open a new tab, paste it -> redirect to /issues/929
[13:02] <didrocks> crazyyyyy
[13:02] <clobrano> indeed
[13:03] <didrocks> someone messed up their router I guess :p
[13:03] <clobrano> there's an easter egg for PR 929
[13:03] <didrocks> clobrano: thanks for looking at it and mentioning it! Pushing directly thus :p
[13:03] <didrocks> heh
[13:03] <didrocks> oh, even better, let me try to merge from this shadow route ^
[13:03] <clobrano> alright 👍
[13:03] <clobrano> uhu, pioneer of shadow pr
[13:03] <didrocks> it worked! :p
[13:04] <clobrano> \0/
[13:04] <didrocks> achievement unlocked: merging from an unexisting PR
[13:20] <clobrano> :D
[13:58] <didrocks> clobrano: yaru-theme in UNAPPROVED (waiting for a SRU team member to review/ack) and bug changed to follow the SRU format
[13:59] <clobrano> didrocks: damn, sorry, should have done it myself
[13:59] <didrocks> clobrano: no worry at all :)
[14:04] <didrocks> Trevinho: get_symlink_target(), this was what I was trying to furiously find in glib! Thanks for the review
[14:06] <Trevinho> didrocks: np :)
[14:13] <Laney> doing that with a loop feels bad
[14:14] <Laney> when realpath exists
[14:14] <didrocks> at least, needs a good comment
[14:14] <didrocks> not crossing the C -> js barrier makes sense
[14:14] <didrocks> well… actually Glib. does it…
[14:14] <didrocks> so yeah, unsure as well
[14:14] <didrocks> I guess it's either we stay in the Glib realm or not…
[15:29] <jibel> didrocks, I'm updating some iso test cases and i've a question about minimal installation: after a minimal installation "apt autoremove" should be empty?
[15:56] <tomreyn> thanks for looking into my bug report :)
[16:01] <jibel> yw :)
[16:05] <didrocks> jibel: yes, that's how I did the initial list. Unsure it's been updated for cosmic though as they enhance the autoremove algorithm
[16:06] <didrocks> when doing dogfooding, I only tested that thunderbird & co weren't here
[16:14] <jibel> didrocks, ta
[16:33] <Laney> whoopsie
[16:33] <Laney> I posted on last week's topic by mistake!
[21:40] <kenvandine> Trevinho: do you know of any bugs that would cause scaling to be reset from 200% to 100% on resume under X?
[21:41] <kenvandine> elmo is seeing that on 18.10
[21:41] <kenvandine> sounds like a really annoying bug :/
[21:42] <kenvandine> Trevinho: he said it is a regression since 18.04
[22:14] <mpt> andyrock, hi, maybe the various upgrade UIs should warn you if you’re using Livepatch and are about to upgrade to a version that doesn’t have it. What do you think? <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1798839>
[22:18] <mpt> (i.e., ubuntu-release-upgrader-*)
[22:24] <mpt> Reported as bug 1799310