[00:07] <LuisGMarine> is rhythmbox getting replaced by banshee?
[00:10] <RAOF> Not at this point in time.
[00:10] <bjsnider> it seems inevitable in the future though
[00:11] <LuisGMarine> thank god1
[00:11] <LuisGMarine> that's all I neeeded to know
[00:11] <LuisGMarine> lol have a good one
[00:11] <bjsnider> well, nobody's stopping him from using it...
[00:22] <penguin42> out of interest what's the benefit of banshee
[00:23] <bjsnider> i think it works very well. the sqlite db is very fast. novel is paying 2 guys to constantly develop it, so it's not going to get orphaned
[00:23] <bjsnider> novell i mean
[00:24] <bjsnider> actually problems with ext4 make the db slower in karmic than it should be
[00:24] <bjsnider> but that will clear itself up
[00:24] <penguin42> hmm I should try it, I switched from Rhythmbox->Exaile a while ago
[00:24] <bjsnider> being a mono app it can be run on any platform too
[00:26] <penguin42> damn, I'm going to have to learn yet another language to fix bugs
[00:34] <Tscheesy> bjsnider: mono is such a thing..hrmpf
[00:36] <bjsnider> Tscheesy, say what?
[00:37] <Tscheesy> i can not trust in m$
[00:37]  * penguin42 agrees
[00:37] <bjsnider> there's a mono channel on this server. you can talk to them about your concerns
[00:38] <Tscheesy> hehe - it more matters me within ubuntu ;)
[00:38] <bjsnider> yes but there are lots of ubuntu devs in there
[00:41] <penguin42> bjsnider: I'm just not sure I believe we're safe from them applying some patents n-years in the future
[00:42] <Tscheesy> i'm in contact with kubuntu-dev's an there it's no issue.. i just cant understand the ubuntu-dev's.. but yes - not my concern..
[00:42] <Tscheesy> @bjsnider..
[00:42] <DanaG> hmm, I'm still wondering about that supposed phonon pulseaudio-device-manager support stuff.
[00:53] <DanaG> weird... I went to extract a zip file, and it showed me two files:  "archive", owned by "may", and "or", owned by "find"
[00:53] <DanaG> =þ
[01:32] <david> Hey
[01:33] <Guest94494> I found a possible bug in lucid, I want to open a bug report but I do not know what package is responsable for the multimedia buttons on my keyboard
[01:33] <Guest94494> anyone know which package manages this ?
[01:42] <Guest94494> btw, swapping between CTRL+ALT+F1 and CTRL+F7 is so fast.....
[04:18] <MisterN> will lucid contain modemmanager in ubuntu-desktop?
[04:20] <bjsnider> apparently the nvidia 195.30 driver has accelerated xrender to "lightning" speeds
[04:21] <MisterN> bjsnider: that sounds nice.
[04:21] <bjsnider> which should significantly improve kde4 performance
[06:14] <SwedeMike> so... I tried to update again yesterday, still no working xorg with my nvidia card (default install, no restricted drivers). It's been like this since beginning of december. Does other people have it working and I should do something, or is it known to be broken? my xorg.conf is basically empty.
[06:34] <cwillu_at_work> SwedeMike, you've tried the usual noabi stuff?
[06:35] <cwillu_at_work> no idea if that would actually work in this case, but if it doesn't, you're screwed until nvidia releases something for the current xorg snapshot
[06:36] <crimsun> SwedeMike: it's known. Lucid has an xorg-server with a newer, incompatible ABI. You need to use a newer NVidia driver, 190.42 or newer.
[06:36] <cwillu_at_work> (what he said :p)
[06:36] <crimsun> SwedeMike: see the nvidia-vdpau PPA if you're really hard-pressed
[06:37] <SwedeMike> I'm not hard pressed at all, it's my lab machine. But I'm not using any nvidia drivers, I'm using the default one (which I thought was nv or noveau) ?
[06:38] <crimsun> look at /var/log/Xorg.0.log for your driver
[06:38] <SwedeMike> it segfaults last I checked.
[06:38] <SwedeMike> I can check again when I get home.
[09:32] <alkisg> Hi, I tried the edubuntu daily build 3 days ago, and the autologin feature of the installer was broken, I had to create a user from the console to continue with the installation. Was anything like that reported for the ubuntu daily builds?
[09:39] <BUGabundo_work> morning
[09:55] <cwillu_at_work> poek poke
[09:59] <BUGabundo_work> ola carrie
[10:19]  * cwillu_at_work doesn't have carrie on highlight :p
[10:20] <BUGabundo_work> :p
[10:20] <BUGabundo_work> subtle cwillu_at_work
[14:13]  * penguin42 yawns
[14:18] <alkisg> Hi, I tried the edubuntu daily build 3 days ago, and the autologin feature of the installer was broken, I had to create a user from the console to continue with the installation. Was anything like that reported for the ubuntu daily builds?
[14:21] <BUGabundo_work> alkisg: u are the 2nd one saying so
[14:21] <BUGabundo_work> but i also saw two others saying its ok
[14:21] <BUGabundo_work> :S
[14:21] <BUGabundo_work> go figure
[14:21] <alkisg> Heh
[14:21] <alkisg> I also said it some hours back, maybe the other person was me? :D
[14:23] <BUGabundo_work> yesterday
[14:24] <alkisg> Well... I'll download another daily and see it if was fixed...
[14:24] <alkisg> ty
[14:37] <BUGabundo_work> ok
[14:51] <BluesKaj> howdy all
[14:51] <penguin42> hi
[14:52]  * penguin42 wonders whether the code for 4k sectored hard disks will be in lucid - it looks like they might be getting common by release and for an LTS might be critical
[14:55] <BluesKaj> I hi penguin42 , I'm ssh frustrated,on our laptop trying to login to my home pc remotely from my tutorials etc for set. I can ssh into our linux boxes on Lan with no problems.
[14:56] <BluesKaj> oops, iscrambled that , not used to the damn touch pad interfering with my typing
[14:57] <penguin42> BluesKaj: You can get the touch pad to disable itself while you type
[14:58] <BluesKaj> how penguin42
[14:59] <penguin42> there's something called syndaemon - I can see a command for it
[14:59] <BluesKaj> i'm on kde btw..looking input actions but no options there
[14:59] <IdleOne> !Synaptics
[15:00] <penguin42> BluesKaj: Do you have xserver-xorg-input-synaptics installed? It should have a /usr/bin/syndaemon
[15:02] <BluesKaj> penguin42, yup, it's there
[15:03] <BluesKaj> penguin42, thing is i use a mouse with my laptop , don't ki
[15:03] <BluesKaj> like the touchpad
[15:03] <penguin42> BluesKaj: Oh right, so you just want to disable the pad?
[15:04] <BluesKaj> exactly :)
[15:04] <penguin42> oh, I'm not sure how to do that, but it sounds doable
[15:04] <BluesKaj> with option tto re-enable, of course
[15:06] <BluesKaj> ok , i found a tutorial with config file editing to the synclient
[15:09] <BluesKaj> brb
[15:15] <BluesKaj> penguin42, success!
[15:15] <penguin42> cool
[15:18] <duffydack> Any plans on fixing support for HL-DT-ST DVD+-RW GA11N cd/dvd writer?  I`m not sure if there is a bug placed already or not.  Its a new laptop and I`m a bit gutted it doesnt work in karmic or lucid..
[15:18] <penguin42> duffydack: What happens to it?
[15:19] <duffydack> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=8561569#post8561569
[15:19] <duffydack> tried k3b, brasero, gnomebaker and imgburn in wine.
[15:21] <penguin42> does reading work?
[15:21] <duffydack> yup
[15:21] <penguin42> do you get the same as Entropy512 does with teh 'cannot write medium' error?
[15:22] <duffydack> imgburn and brasero burn, after a long time starting up, but only manage like 0.3x and even then I`m not sure its actually burning anything.
[15:23] <duffydack> I havent tried from shell, but I get write error in k3b.. i`ll try it..  I know the drive/discs work ok in windows.
[15:23] <penguin42> I'd check for stuff in dmesg
[15:27] <duffydack> i`lll try the same command as entropy512
[15:27] <duffydack> do I need sudo for cdrecord?
[15:28] <penguin42> don't think so if you have the perms
[15:31] <duffydack> http://pastebin.com/m5af635a4
[15:31] <duffydack> i`ll try sudo as it suggests...
[15:31] <penguin42> hmm that doesn't look happy
[15:34] <duffydack> nope, same
[15:35] <duffydack> how do I check dma is enabled?
[15:36] <penguin42> is it sata or pata?
[15:38] <duffydack> good question lol
[15:38] <duffydack> its a slot loader in my new dell studio 17 i7
[15:38] <duffydack> the hd is sata
[15:38] <duffydack> i`ll have a look see if I can find out
[15:39] <penguin42> I dobut it's a dmaism - but it's possible, hdparm -d /dev/sr0 I think, but I've never done it on a cd in ages
[15:40] <duffydack> HLDS GA11N 12.7mm SATA Slotload 8X DVDRW
[15:41] <duffydack> hmm "Using generic SCSI-3/mmc DVD-R(W) driver (mmc_mdvd)."  but it was a dvd+r i was using
[15:41] <penguin42> i think that's pretty much all the same but I might be wrong
[15:42] <duffydack> Current: 0x001B (DVD+R)  says that also so should be ok.. either way, ive tried 4 ways now, and all end up the same.
[15:44] <duffydack> odd, dells site offers A101 firmware 23rd Sep 09 (fix support for win7)  but mine came with A102
[15:46] <duffydack> well I guess i`ll have to have a spare fat/ntfs drive for burning in windows for now..
[15:49] <penguin42> duffydack: in the BIOS is there a setting for legacy mode for the sata interface?
[15:54] <duffydack> not sure..  I`ll look
[15:54] <penguin42> oh
[15:54] <penguin42> I was about to say make sure it was off
[15:57] <duffydack> Sata operation : AHCI or ATA , its set to AHCI
[15:57] <duffydack> I guess thats for the HD as well...hmm
[16:02] <penguin42> ahci is what i'd expect
[16:03] <BUGabundo_work> bjsnider: yofel : which one of you confirmed me that n2n didnt work?
[16:03] <BUGabundo_work> i'm sick of waiting, i'm reporting it and sending upstream
[16:03] <BUGabundo_work> can you re-paste the error? thanks
[16:03] <bjsnider> not me
[16:03] <bjsnider> so by process of elimination it must be...
[16:04] <BUGabundo_work> ehe
[16:07] <penguin42> hmm there was a repo somewhere of debug packages - can anyone remember where?
[16:08] <penguin42> ah ddebs
[16:45] <yofel> BUGabundo_work: wasn't at home, if you still need it: http://paste.ubuntu.com/349149/
[16:47] <BUGabundo_work> thanks yofel
[17:24] <dabaR> So how does one upgrade to lucid?
[17:24] <dabaR> I mean, what is the command
[17:24] <dabaR> do you still use the upgrade manager or aptitude, or the gui upgrade manager?
[17:25] <BUGabundo_work> dabaR: update-manager -d
[17:26] <dabaR> thanks.
[17:27] <BluesKaj> you can update to lucid by the command line as well,  sudo do-release-upgrade -d
[17:28] <dabaR> Do you happen to know what the difference is with just aptitude dist-upgrade and the update-manager?
[17:30] <charlie-tca> I think the difference is whether you use the GUI or the command line
[17:30] <alkisg> dist-upgrade == upgrade packages. update-manager == change the sources.list completely...
[17:30] <dabaR> Just sources.list?
[17:31] <alkisg> No, not only that, it does other stuff too, to be able to upgrade to the new version, but I don't know the details.
[17:31] <dabaR> I wonder what it does, cause say warty->hoary I think everybody still did it manually with dist-upgrade
[17:33] <BluesKaj> don't change the soureces.list and then upgrade , it used to work , but not anymore ...you'll end up with a broken OS
[17:35] <BUGabundo_work> dabaR: distupgrade is DEBIAN :D
[17:35] <dabaR> What?
[17:36] <BUGabundo_work> dabaR: not only packages but also policies
[17:36] <dabaR> What do you mean?
[17:36] <BUGabundo_work> BluesKaj: i did sources sed plus dist upgrade to lucid
[17:36] <BUGabundo_work> but it was on day two of it :)
[17:36] <BUGabundo_work> karmic had just came out
[17:38] <dabaR> BUGabundo_work: so update manager takes policies into account and dist-upgrade does not, right?
[17:38] <dabaR> Like, don't use pidgin, use empathy
[17:40] <mostafa_> how can I restore grub 1.97? or acticate it when windows 7 boot loader first is active
[17:41] <BluesKaj> BUGabundo_work, I think you got lucky :)
[17:41] <dabaR> !recover
[17:42] <BUGabundo_work> !grub2
[17:42] <dabaR> !recoveringgrub
[17:42] <charlie-tca> I did not think you could do any other upgrade to ubuntu+1 before alpha1
[17:42] <BUGabundo_work> dabaR: yes, but i dont think it will remove an app from a previous version, like pidgin
[17:43] <BUGabundo_work> charlie-tca: how do u think i got into lucid?
[17:43] <BUGabundo_work> AFAIK update-manager upgrade info is only availble around Alpha1
[17:43] <charlie-tca> That's what I mean.
[17:43] <charlie-tca> Before alpha1, you have to change sources.list and upgrade manually
[17:44] <BUGabundo_work> ah
[17:44] <dabaR> charlie-tca: what is manually?
[17:44] <charlie-tca> You manually change sources.list
[17:46] <dabaR> and what command do you run?
[17:46] <dabaR> Hah
[17:46] <dabaR> I guess you were not around when I asked...
[17:46] <dabaR> Or I asked wrong
[17:46] <charlie-tca> after alpha1 is out, I use update manager
[17:47] <charlie-tca> It is normally the easiest upgrade path
[17:48] <dabaR> charlie-tca: what is the alternative to the update manager?
[17:50] <charlie-tca> dabaR: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LucidLynx/TechnicalOverview#Upgrading%20from%20Ubuntu%209.10%20or%20Ubuntu%208.04%20LTS
[17:51] <charlie-tca> lists the supported upgrade methods
[17:51] <dabaR> boring
[17:52] <dabaR> But thank you./
[17:52] <dabaR> Maybe I should explain what I find boring...
[17:52] <dabaR> Just basically how both methods are the same method except with or without the gui
[18:13] <dabaR> here goes
[18:20] <dabaR> This was too easy
[18:20] <dabaR> I mean, every single thing still works.
[18:20] <dabaR> Not that I tested every single thing, or anything...
[18:28] <charlie-tca> That's the idea
[18:53] <hifi> was it intentional that my partitions were forced from ext3 to ext4 in fstab at some point?
[18:53] <hifi> or did I do that myself...
[18:53] <hifi> I just can't remember
[18:59] <bjsnider> hifi, if you clean installed it would be intentional. if you just keep upgrading it wouldn't be done without your approval
[18:59] <hifi> yeah, probably screwed it up myself then
[19:00] <hifi> I tried 2.6.33-rc2 from the kernel team ppa and found out I had ext5 in fstab for both of my partitions and root was still mounted as ext3, but my other partition was mounted as ext4
[19:00] <hifi> the ext4 driver also crashed, thats when I noticed :)
[19:02] <penguin42> ext5, that's an interesting forward looking setting
[19:04] <Tscheesy> penguin42: ^^
[19:05] <mostafa_> how can I open Pmagic.iso with usb-creator and then write it into the USB Disk?
[19:05] <benste> hi, - what's the default pswd for the live session user "ubuntu" - gdm didn't list any user and I've created a new user from CLI to enter GUI, but now to install I require the pswd of "ubuntu"
[19:06] <hifi> uh, ext4
[19:06] <benste> mostafa_: by simply opening the iso within usb-creator ?
[19:07] <mostafa_> beleive or not when I open in this way nothing had happened hsss
[19:07] <benste> did you vertify that the ISO is ok ? - md5sum ?
[19:07] <benste> -> why do you want pmagic.iso on a flash drive ?
[19:14] <Tscheesy> mostafa_: for pmagic.iso i used 'unetbootin'
[19:15] <mostafa_> Tscheesy: when
[19:15] <mostafa_> Tscheesy: you create the bootable flash and reboot
[19:15] <Tscheesy> instead ob usbcreator
[19:15] <mostafa_> Tscheesy: then what happened?
[19:15] <Tscheesy> *of
[19:16] <Tscheesy> i do use this distro
[19:16] <mostafa_> Tscheesy: ok I check both but no use
[19:16] <mostafa_> Tscheesy: what distro?
[19:17] <Tscheesy> partedmagic i think your talking about?
[19:17] <mostafa_> Tscheesy: yeah exactly
[19:18] <mostafa_> Tscheesy: I have pmagic4.3.iso
[19:18] <Tscheesy> use the App unetbootin
[19:18] <mostafa_> Tscheesy: ok then how to create that
[19:18] <Pici> mostafa_: Was there something wrong with the answers that you got in #ubuntu and #kubuntu ?
[19:18] <Pici> #ubuntu+1 is for Lucid discussion/questions.
[19:19] <Tscheesy> mostafa_: you will easyly find it with google
[19:19] <mostafa_> Pici: yeah I don't get the answer because I test all things that they said
[19:20] <mostafa_> Tscheesy: I had created the bootable flash with unetbootin
[19:20] <mostafa_> Tscheesy: but when I reboot to boot from the USB
[19:20] <mostafa_> Tscheesy: it shows me a white screen that just get Enter
[19:20] <mostafa_> after that
[19:20] <Tscheesy> works fine here - often its a BIOS-Lock or an unsuitable USB-Medium
[19:21] <Tscheesy> or  a damaged Image
[19:22] <mostafa_> Tscheesy: your words is correct just in the case that it was false and collapsed in windows too?
[19:22] <mostafa_> Tscheesy: isn't it?
[19:22] <Tscheesy> mostafa_: sorry i don't get htis - my English is too bad
[19:22] <mostafa_> Tscheesy: but when I write the same iso in windows with Ultraiso all the thing works fine
[19:23] <Tscheesy> hm-- also Unetbootin claims to work better under Windows..
[19:23] <Tscheesy> so - sorry for offtopic in here
[19:24] <mostafa_> Tscheesy: you mean what I mean? do you have pmagic.iso?
[19:24] <Pici> mostafa_: What does this have to do with Lucid?
[19:25] <mostafa_> Pici: excuse me sir I want Tscheesy just to check it for if he has it
[19:25] <mostafa_> that's all
[19:26] <Tscheesy> mostafa_: sure - from official source
[19:27] <mostafa_> Tscheesy: can you check it bro for me with unetbootin?
[19:27] <Tscheesy> i habe no unetbootin anymore - so no - Distrowatch.com or Google show you the page - you need the Live Version
[19:28] <mostafa_> Tscheesy: ok thnx bro 4 your response
[19:28] <mostafa_> ;)
[19:29] <Tscheesy> np - srry folks
[20:54] <Guest97245> Hey all
[20:56] <Guest97245> I read that there exists a profiler which examines boot up time and shows what parts of the boot sequence slow the computer. Anyone know where I can find info on how to ues this ? Thanks
[20:58] <bjsnider> bootchart
[20:58] <bjsnider> but i think the boot issues in lucid are due to readahead
[20:58] <Guest97245> ok
[20:59] <Guest97245> well, I opened a ticket about boot time, with this it'll be more complete :d
[21:01] <yofel> !bootchart | Guest97245
[21:01] <Guest97245> Ok
[21:01] <Guest97245> I ran apt-get install
[21:01] <Guest97245> does it automatically update menu.lst ?
[21:01] <alex_mayorga> how to report a "npviewer.bin[2993]: segfault"?
[21:01] <yofel> Guest97245: it doesn't need a menu.lst entry
[21:02] <bjsnider> alex_mayorga, ubuntu-bug nspluginwrapper
[21:03] <alex_mayorga> bjsnider, thanks, let me try
[21:03] <bjsnider> you should not be using that unless you are still using 32 bit ubuntu
[21:03] <alex_mayorga> I've reinstalled to 64 bit now
[21:04] <alex_mayorga> other than that and my faulty HD, seems to be going OK
[21:04] <bjsnider> just grab the native 64 bit adobe flash pugin and ununstall all flash packages
[21:05] <alex_mayorga> bjsnider, straight from Adobe? or is there a package?
[21:06] <bjsnider> not a debian package, no
[21:08] <Guest50099> Guest97245 is now known as Guest50099
[21:08] <Guest50099> I ran bootchart, that works really well. Thanks!
[21:09] <alex_mayorga> bjsnider, would there ever be?
[21:09] <bjsnider> adobe doesn't let it be redstributed that way
[21:09] <bjsnider> i think that's the problem
[21:10] <alex_mayorga> bug 462433 it seems, I even marked a duplicate ;)
[21:10] <alex_mayorga> bjsnider, how's the 32 bit distributed then?
[21:11] <Guest50099> When I upload attachments to launchpad, any way to mark the attachment as private ?
[21:12] <Guest50099> tooo late, already pressed it
[21:12] <bjsnider> alex_mayorga, a script that downloads, unpacks, and installs the plugin is what is packaged, not the plugin itself
[21:13] <Guest50099> I have issues with multimedia keys on my ibm t43, worked on Ubuntu 8.04. Ticket is #501520. What steps can I do to add the most information ?
[21:13] <alex_mayorga> bjsnider, I see, but theres no one for 64 so far?
[21:15] <bjsnider> gues not. but there are scripts out there for that
[21:15] <Guest50099> I used the command "xev" and so no events in the output, so I don't know where to go from here
[21:44] <Guest50099> Guess everyone is gone to eat, if any of you know what debugging steps I need to do for #501520, add it to the ticket. It'll allow me to make a more informed ticket :d
[21:47] <rrva> can I use the hdmi port on my laptop for input? It's a lenovo N500 notebook with intel g45
[21:49] <DanaG> Nope, that would take special hardware that essentially NO laptops have.
[21:49] <rrva> :(
[21:50] <tgpraveen> !info evince
[21:50] <tgpraveen> hmm 2.29.4 GNOME isn't in lucid yet?
[22:11] <kriss3d> how do i upgrade linux from 9.10 koala kubuntu to the new one once its released ?
[22:12] <yofel> kriss3d: with update-manager, lucid will be released in April 2010
[22:13] <karma_police> test
[22:14] <guntbert> karma_police: failed :)
[22:14] <yofel> there's something more useful than test
[22:14] <yofel> !ping
[22:14] <karma_police> ty.. new to this
[22:14] <yofel> !me
[22:15] <Tscheesy> !info digikam
[22:15] <karma_police> anyone know how much different 10.04 is gonna be from 0.10?
[22:16] <karma_police> 9.10*
[22:16] <kriss3d> yofel:  thanks.. i didnt know i have an update manager.. im still learning the features of kubuntu as it is..
[22:18] <yofel> karma_police: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LucidLynx for references
[22:20] <yofel> kriss3d: I'm a bit new to kubuntu too, iirc kpackagekit should notify you when Lucid is available
[22:21] <kriss3d> ah yeah ok.. i use pkackagekit too
[22:49] <BUGabundo> hey guys
[23:10] <penguin42> hey
[23:18] <penguin42> which reminds me; what's changed that means Lucid isn't asking me for my password when I try and mount an encryptied partition I've got on the hard drive; it's asking me for the key passphrase, but not for the user password to auth with
[23:19] <penguin42> sounds like a policykit type of thing?
[23:37] <BUGabundo> yofel: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/n2n/+bug/501768
[23:37] <BUGabundo> can you confirm it please?
[23:39] <yofel> BUGabundo: done
[23:39] <BUGabundo> danka
[23:39] <BUGabundo> also emailed upstream
[23:39] <bjsnider> what is n2n?
[23:39] <BUGabundo> since their BTS (trac) requires loing
[23:39] <BUGabundo> but shows no option to register
[23:39] <BUGabundo> bjsnider: ntop, yes
[23:40] <BUGabundo> I'm pretty sure the bug is NOT in n2n
[23:40] <BUGabundo> but some other changed package
[23:42] <BUGabundo>  anyone has any idea what IOCTL would be ??
[23:43] <crimsun> as in ioctl(2)?
[23:43] <crimsun> (apt-get install manpages-dev)
[23:45] <BUGabundo> crimsun: same thing
[23:45] <cwillu_at_work> BUGabundo, in that case, an ioctl is just a way of asking for a particular action to occur on a file
[23:45] <BUGabundo> :(
[23:46] <crimsun> "same thing"?
[23:46] <cwillu_at_work> as it happens, the device or file it's trying to poke doesn't exist
[23:46] <crimsun> the error is pretty straightforward, the file doesn't exist
[23:46] <cwillu_at_work> BUGabundo, strace or ltrace on the binary should give you the name of the file that's dying, near the end of the trace
[23:46] <crimsun> strace -f , at least
[23:47] <BUGabundo> crimsun: was fine 2 weeks ago
[23:47] <crimsun> that really doesn't mean anything
[23:47] <crimsun> "two weeks ago the sun was shining"
[23:47] <BUGabundo> I know
[23:47] <BUGabundo> let me trace it
[23:47] <cwillu_at_work> BUGabundo, the strace is the next thing to do :)
[23:47] <BUGabundo> prob is, it requires sudo
[23:47] <penguin42> crimsun: Well possibly, but there again ioctl doesn't normally take a filename, so something else is probably going on
[23:48] <crimsun> penguin42: could be, I'm not reading the bug report
[23:48] <cwillu_at_work> BUGabundo, ltrace will probably work too
[23:48] <penguin42> crimsun: Neither am I :-)
[23:48] <BUGabundo> open("/usr/lib/locale/en_US.UTF-8/LC_IDENTIFICATION", O_RDONLY) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
[23:48] <BUGabundo> and a bunch of those
[23:48] <cwillu_at_work> it's the last one that'll matter
[23:48] <penguin42> BUGabundo: Is that just before the failure, because that's not too unusual ?
[23:49] <BUGabundo> $ ls /usr/lib/locale/en_US.UTF-8/
[23:49] <BUGabundo> ls: cannot access /usr/lib/locale/en_US.UTF-8/: No such file or directory
[23:49] <penguin42> (Anyone used 'perf' in 2.6.33 ?)
[23:49] <cwillu_at_work> BUGabundo, pastebin the last 50 lines of the trace before it fails
[23:49] <BUGabundo> write(1, "30/Dec/2009 23:49:28 [     edge."..., 7230/Dec/2009 23:49:28 [     edge.c:1136] Using supernode <IP_ADDRESS>:82
[23:49] <BUGabundo> ) = 72
[23:49] <BUGabundo> setuid(0)                               = 0
[23:49] <BUGabundo> open("/dev/net/tun", O_RDWR)            = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
[23:49] <BUGabundo> write(1, "ERROR: ioctl() [No such file or "..., 46ERROR: ioctl() [No such file or directory][2]
[23:49] <BUGabundo> got it
[23:49] <BUGabundo> /dev/net/tun
[23:49] <cwillu_at_work> you're missing a tun device are you?
[23:50] <BUGabundo> no
[23:50] <BUGabundo> everyone on +1 is
[23:50] <BUGabundo> just try it yourself
[23:50] <penguin42> BUGabundo: modprobe tun
[23:51] <BUGabundo> cwillu_at_work: I've asked yofel to try install it, and he confirmed it
[23:51] <cwillu_at_work> BUGabundo, yes?
[23:51] <cwillu_at_work> BUGabundo, I know its a bug, you filed it :p
[23:51] <cwillu_at_work> Probing at its nature
[23:51] <cwillu_at_work> Does /dev/net/tun exist?  what's the permissions on it?
[23:51] <BUGabundo> $ sudo modprobe tun
[23:51] <BUGabundo> $ sudo edge -c f -a <IP_ADDRESS> -l <IP_ADDRESS>:82 -k f -u 1000 -g 1000
[23:51] <BUGabundo> <IP_ADDRESS>
[23:51] <BUGabundo> 30/Dec/2009 23:51:22 [     edge.c:1136] Using supernode <IP_ADDRESS>:82
[23:51] <BUGabundo> 30/Dec/2009 23:51:22 [tuntap_linux.c:  38] Interface edge0 has MAC E6:28:19:8F:5D:97
[23:51] <BUGabundo> its working now
[23:52] <BUGabundo> why the heck did Lucid stop modprobing it ?
[23:52] <yofel> o.O
[23:52] <cwillu_at_work> I don't have a /dev/net on my lucid laptop
[23:52] <penguin42> BUGabundo: No particularly good reason to have it in by default
[23:54] <penguin42> I lost track, what is supposed to auto load modules these days?
[23:54] <cwillu_at_work> udev
[23:54] <BUGabundo> so it's a udev bug :(
[23:54] <BUGabundo> re-targeting
[23:54] <BUGabundo> should I add udev
[23:54] <BUGabundo> or change n2n to udev ?
[23:54] <cwillu_at_work> penguin42, incidently, ssh will also use tun devices, and disabling the tun module _will_ break stuff on upgrades for some people because of that
[23:55] <yofel> nice, openvpn errors out too...
[23:55] <cwillu_at_work> yep
[23:55] <cwillu_at_work> it probably took 53 milliseconds to load at boot :p
[23:55] <penguin42> cwillu_at_work: I'd just have expected it to get loaded as needed
[23:55] <cwillu_at_work> penguin42, how do you tell when its needed though?
[23:55] <BUGabundo> *should I add udev or change n2n to udev ?*
[23:56] <penguin42> cwillu_at_work: Didn't there used to be stuff that triggered module loading when /dev/whatever was opened?
[23:56] <jcole> hello everyone, i installed ubuntu for a friend on his laptop and am trying to figure out how to sync his itouch music... is there a linux app that is compatible with the itouch/iphone?
[23:56] <cwillu_at_work> BUGabundo, it affects n2n, ssh, openvpn at least
[23:56] <BUGabundo> adding udev for now
[23:56] <penguin42> cwillu_at_work: Oh, silly me - that was triggering on device major/minor wasn't it
[23:56] <yofel> jcole: which ubuntu version?
[23:56] <jcole> karmic
[23:57] <BUGabundo> feel free to coment on the bug and add affected packages, you guys can test
[23:57] <yofel> jcole: then please ask in #ubuntu, this channel is for Lucid Lynx (10.04) support
[23:57] <jcole> yofel: im also trying this on lucid
[23:57] <BUGabundo> jcole: you will need something like exaile or rhytombox
[23:57] <cwillu_at_work> BUGabundo, what happens if you shut down n2n, and then rmmod tun and delete /dev/net/tun, and then mknod /dev/net/tun c 10 200?
[23:57] <BUGabundo> both have support for ipod and usbmass storage
[23:57] <cwillu_at_work> does n2n still work?
[23:58] <jcole> yofel: i run lucid on *my* laptop since i do ubuntu development
[23:58] <yofel> jcole: sry, didn't know ;)
[23:58] <cwillu_at_work> jcole, itouch is still a work in progress requiring at least a jailbroken device afaik
[23:58] <cwillu_at_work> there's been progress on that front, but nothing production ready afaik
[23:58] <BUGabundo> cwillu_at_work: testing
[23:59] <penguin42> cwillu_at_work: I wonder, there are ssh clients for itouch aren't there? scp ?
[23:59] <BUGabundo> cwillu_at_work: $ sudo mknod /dev/net/tun c 10 200 mknod: `/dev/net/tun': No such file or directory


[08:46]  * PaulW2U counts summaries - 11 to do
[09:46] <PaulW2U> Just Blogosphere to do now. Back later to do them if no-one else picks them up.
[17:52] <pleia2> ahoneybun: able to do some blogosphere summaries today? :) just a few left


 Why, in most packages, do we use debhelper-compat 13 while debian uses debhelper-compat 12?
 If it's running fine in debian with 12, why do we bump it to 13?
[15:55] <apt-ghetto> Debian recommends version 13 => https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debmake-doc/ch05.en.html and I think, there is a lint warning, if you use an older version.
 But in some merges the packages will have 12 and we will be updating them to 13. There's a lint warning I understand but why is it? Why do we need the latest version?
 because that's how packaging policy works?
 that only applies for newer package updates though
 not for packages that get SRU updates, you leave the packaging policy alone in those 'older' packages.


 :P
[07:49] <lotuspsychje> lol
[07:49] <jink> Accusing me of animal cruelty and all... :/
[07:49]  * lotuspsychje hides & gets some coffee
[07:49] <jink> :>
[07:50] <jink> +1
[07:52] <ducasse> all good here, lotuspsychje - still cold, though.
[07:54] <lotuspsychje> jink: fatal attraction bunny
[07:59] <jink> :D
[08:45] <lordievader> Good morning
[08:52] <ducasse> morning, lordievader - how are you today?
[08:52] <lordievader> Doing good here 😁 How are you?
[08:53] <ducasse> all good, thanks :) although i need to go out today, not looking forward to that ;)
[08:56] <EriC^^> morning all
[08:56] <EriC^^> hey ducasse lordievader
[08:56] <lordievader> Hey EriC^^
[08:56] <lordievader> How are you doing?
[08:57] <EriC^^> good you?
[09:00] <lordievader> Doing good here. Trying to fix a bug.
[09:06] <ducasse> hi EriC^^
[09:06] <EriC^^> hi ducasse how are you?
[09:13] <ducasse> EriC^^: all good, got the heat turned way up :) and you?
[12:24] <BluesKaj> Howdy all
[12:46] <pauljw> hi everyone
[12:51] <BluesKaj> 'Morning pauljw
[12:52] <pauljw> hey BluesKaj
[12:52] <pauljw> :)
[12:54] <BluesKaj> raining here ...not uncommon in jan , we usually get a january thaw, but it normally lasts 3-4 days, this one's only 2
[13:14] <pauljw> BluesKaj, we're about the same here, warm today, almost 70F.  tomorrow early rain, turning to ice, turning to snow and staying frigid for the next week.
[13:17] <BluesKaj> yup, that's about the same here, only 50F here, but 10F tomorrow
[13:20] <pauljw> burrr...
[13:31] <BluesKaj> 10F is quite normal for Northern Ontario
[13:32] <pauljw> :)
[17:17] <lotuspsychje> good evening to all
[17:20] <ducasse> evening, lotuspsychje
[17:20] <lotuspsychje> hey ducasse
[17:22] <lotuspsychje> https://itsfoss.com/barcelona-open-source/
[17:23] <BluesKaj> Hey lotuspsychje, ducasse
[17:23] <lotuspsychje> hey BluesKaj all good?
[17:23] <ducasse> \o BluesKaj
[17:23] <BluesKaj> yup, fine hare and you, lotuspsychje
[17:23] <lotuspsychje> finished work, now lil irc chill :p
[17:24]  * BluesKaj nods :-)
[17:26] <lotuspsychje> 2 new factoids
[17:26] <lotuspsychje> !nopti
[17:26] <lotuspsychje> !lenovobug
[17:27] <BluesKaj> yup, the kernel came down the pipe yesterday
[17:28] <lotuspsychje> the kernel fixes the nopti grubline right?
[17:34] <nacc> lotuspsychje: 'fixes'?
[17:34] <lotuspsychje> nacc: i mean the nopti line in grub, do you have to add it even after the new kernel updates or not?
[17:35] <nacc> lotuspsychje: welll "have to add" is dependent upon the context of the faq
[17:35] <nacc> lotuspsychje: you never "have to add" it
[17:35] <nacc> lotuspsychje: you can choose to add it, and it onlly makes sense on kernels where KPTI exists
[17:35] <lotuspsychje> right
[17:35] <nacc> lotuspsychje: if you choose to do so, you're vulnerable
[17:36] <nacc> lotuspsychje: so i'm not sure what your actual question is :)
[17:36] <BluesKaj> lotuspsychje, I've rebooted with grub twice today, no probs
[17:36] <lotuspsychje> nacc: my question is, why has this trigger been added, what you reccomend users
[17:37] <nacc> lotuspsychje: well, the faq says
[17:37] <nacc> lotuspsychje: kpti has a perf. impact
[17:37] <nacc> lotuspsychje: some customers may not care about security
[17:37] <nacc> s/customers/users/
[17:37] <nacc> e.g., on firewalled systems that have no network
[17:38] <nacc> but they may care about perf.
[17:38] <nacc> (e.g., HPC clusters doing non-networked calculations)
[17:38] <lotuspsychje> ah i see
[17:38] <nacc> (that's just a thought, not something i know for sure)
[18:39] <lotuspsychje> !info harmony bionic
[18:41] <BluesKaj> try concordance
[18:41] <BluesKaj> lotuspsychje,^
[18:43] <lotuspsychje> !info concordance
[18:43] <BluesKaj> that's what comes up in muon search for harmony
[18:44] <BluesKaj> on bionic
[18:44] <lotuspsychje> kk tnx
[18:45] <lotuspsychje> i was checking new releases in #ubuntu-release
[19:09] <KingParrot> python3-tk_3.5.1-1
[19:11] <lotuspsychje_> KingParrot: you gonna start again?
[19:16] <lotuspsychje_> 1482 users neat
[19:22] <lotuspsychje_> hey EriC^^
[19:23] <EriC^^> heyy
[19:23] <EriC^^> what's up?
[19:23] <lotuspsychje_> chillin irc after work :p
[19:23] <lotuspsychje_> you?
[19:24] <lotuspsychje_> gonna throw myself in front of the tv soon
[19:27] <EriC^^> cool
[19:27] <EriC^^> chillin in bed eating nachos and stuff
[19:27] <lotuspsychje_> hehe
[19:27] <lotuspsychje_> cookie monster you
[19:33] <EriC^^> lol
[19:34] <lotuspsychje_> EriC^^: :p
[19:34] <lotuspsychje_> hey Bashing-om
[19:39] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje_: Back with the wolf pack :P
[19:40] <lotuspsychje_> hehe
[19:54] <lotuspsychje_> EriC^^: almost 1500 users :p
[19:56] <lotuspsychje_> allrighty tv time guys
[19:56] <lotuspsychje_> have a nice night
[19:56] <lotuspsychje_> and dont do what lotus would do..


[19:00] <sil2100> o/
[19:00] <athos> o/
[19:02] <lucaskanashiro[m> o/
[19:07] <sil2100> Let's see who else we have today
[19:07] <bdmurray> o/
[19:10] <teward> *walks in looking like crap due to late night emergency work until 3AM*
[19:11] <teward> sil2100: here if absolutely needed but I'm kinda beat to hell... hence 404 teward not found.
[19:11] <rbasak> o/ Sorry I'm late
[19:12] <sil2100> Ok, I think we have quorum then
[19:12] <sil2100> Who wants to chair today?
[19:13] <sil2100> Also, hm, the Agenda doesn't state the dates our applicants applied to
[19:13] <teward> not it, i can barely type...
[19:13] <rbasak> I think it's just athos today?
[19:13] <sil2100> Would have to browse through the mailing-list
[19:14] <sil2100> Okay, if no one wants, I can chair. Who was the chair last time though?
[19:15] <bdmurray> rbasak did last time
[19:16] <bdmurray> We already voted on Mattia, did not finish with Frank
[19:16] <teward> i was supposed to act on mattia but chaos with FT dragged me away to Hell so I still have to do that I think?
[19:17] <sil2100> I didn't see a decision made publicly on Mattia
[19:17] <sil2100> At least there was no announcement
[19:17] <teward> sil2100: i believe that was assigned to me and yes I dropped the ball on that
[19:17] <sil2100> Please be sure to delegate to someone else in cases when you are unable to perform the post-application steps, since otherwise it's a bit... bad
[19:18] <teward> sil2100: family badness troubles + work sending you on a week long journey across country makes that tricky
[19:18] <teward> but ye thats my bad i will send that announce today
[19:19] <sil2100> Yeah, I understand that, this is why we need to be more willing to delegate in such moments
[19:19] <sil2100> Maybe we should document that in the knowledgebase, since it's not always easy to remember that it's an option
[19:19] <teward> check.  this said someome meglected to update the agenda last meeting - wasnt that the chair's job?
[19:20] <teward> https://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2022/ubuntu-meeting.2022-07-25-16.06.html cliffs notes from last meeting
[19:21] <teward> carried assigned actions etx
[19:21] <sil2100> Thanks! I'll use  that as a base then
[19:21] <sil2100> Okay, no volunteers,
[19:21] <sil2100> #startmeeting Developer Membership Board
[19:21] <meetingology> Meeting started at 19:21:24 UTC.  The chair is sil2100.  Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
[19:21] <meetingology> Available commands: action, commands, idea, info, link, nick
[19:21] <teward> we did mattia.  frank is xo
[19:21] <teward> continjed to today*
[19:21] <rbasak> I think he said he was on vacation?
[19:21] <sil2100> #topic Ubuntu Core Developer Applications
[19:21] <rbasak> IIRC I asked him to update us with a new date
[19:22] <teward> and new applicant athos
[19:22] <sil2100> Let's start off with the person here
[19:22] <teward> rbasak: ack
[19:22] <sil2100> #subtopic Athos Ribeiro
[19:22] <sil2100> athos: o/
[19:22] <athos> o/
[19:22] <sil2100> athos: hello! Could you please introduce yourself?
[19:22] <sil2100> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AthosRibeiro/UbuntuCoreDeveloperApplication
[19:22] <athos> Hello! I am a software engineer @ canonical working in the server team. Mostly working on ROCKs, PHP, and PostgreSQL atm. You can find more details on the application page :)
[19:23] <rbasak> As I always do for colleagues, I'll abstain unless required to vote for quorum and everyone else is anonymous.
[19:23] <sil2100> Excellent. Let's take 5 minutes in case DMB members need a moment to browse the application (like me for instance)
[19:25] <lucaskanashiro[m> I'll follow rbasak on that
[19:26] <bdmurray> Given the number of members here won't we need your votes?
[19:26] <rbasak> Yeah maybe. Let's see what everyone else thinks first though.
[19:27] <teward> if we have abstains from lucaskanashiro[m and rbasak then we are not quorate for this application
[19:27] <rbasak> > unless required to vote for quorum and everyone else is anonymous.
[19:28] <lucaskanashiro[m> sorry, I did not check the quorum. If needed I'll vote
[19:28] <sil2100> Okay, do we have any questions fot athos ?
[19:29] <sil2100> athos: have you worked on any transitions other than the PHP8.1 one (as mentioned by Bryce's endorsement)?
[19:31] <athos> not really. I could fing no opportunities for any lately :) I did perform one or 2 no-change rebuilds that were missing from the ICU 70 soname bump though
[19:31] <sil2100> athos: okay! Just a quick check up then: how can transitions be started? What usually happens?
[19:31] <athos> and while this is not a transition, I also performed a bootstrap for sbcl a couple weeks ago (ppc64el) which required a few reverse deps rebuilds.
[19:33] <sil2100> (aka. what event can 'trigger' a transition)
[19:33] <athos> well, let's say there is a soname bump in a lib. Ideally the developer performing the upload should communicate stakeholders about the transition and verify the work needed for that (checking reverse deps). After the upload (trigger) the fun starts. no change rebuilds, debuging, verifying dep8 tests, etc
[19:35] <athos> btw, the ubuntu maintainer handbook has a nice page regarding transitions. Before this one was written, I had a hard time finding any docs regarding those (both in debian and in ubuntu): https://github.com/canonical/ubuntu-maintainers-handbook/blob/main/Transitions.md
[19:37] <sil2100> Ok thanks!
[19:37] <sil2100> Any other questions?
[19:38] <sil2100> bdmurray, lucaskanashiro[m, rbasak, teward: ?
[19:38] <sil2100> Or should we move to voting?
[19:38] <rbasak> No questions from me, thanks (because he's a colleague, etc)
[19:38] <lucaskanashiro[m> nothing from me
[19:38] <teward> nothing from me
[19:38] <bdmurray> athos: What kind of change would require a Feature Freeze excaption?
[19:39] <bdmurray> exception
[19:40] <athos> changes introducing new features to a package. e.g., we are on feature freeze and there is a new php minor release, which fixes some important bugs, but introduces a new type as well
[19:41] <bdmurray> What if there was not a new type?
[19:43] <athos> While one could argue there is no new features, only bug fixes, I'd still rather file a FFe since we have a minor version bump and the FFe would also serve the purpose of getting the change reviewed
[19:43] <athos> if it was just a single patch being applied, then I would not file the FFe
[19:44] <bdmurray> Alright, that's it from me.
[19:45] <sil2100> Okay then, let's vote!
[19:46] <sil2100> #vote Athos Ribeiro to become an Ubuntu Core Developer
[19:46] <meetingology> Please vote on: Athos Ribeiro to become an Ubuntu Core Developer
[19:46] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, -1 or +0 in channel (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1|-1|+0 #channelname')
[19:46] <sil2100> +1
[19:46] <meetingology> +1 received from sil2100
[19:46] <lucaskanashiro[m> +1
[19:46] <meetingology> +1 received from lucaskanashiro[m
[19:46] <teward> +1
[19:46] <meetingology> +1 received from teward
[19:47] <bdmurray> +1
[19:47] <meetingology> +1 received from bdmurray
[19:47] <sil2100> #endvote
[19:47] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Athos Ribeiro to become an Ubuntu Core Developer
[19:47] <meetingology> Votes for: 4, Votes against: 0, Abstentions: 0
[19:47] <meetingology> Motion carried
[19:47] <sil2100> athos: congratulations!
[19:47] <rbasak> Congratulations!
[19:47] <sergiodj> athos: yay!
[19:47] <sergiodj> :)
[19:47] <sarnold> congratulations athos :)
[19:47] <athos> thanks! :)
[19:47] <sil2100> #action sil2100 to add athos to the ubuntu-core-dev team
[19:47] <meetingology> ACTION: sil2100 to add athos to the ubuntu-core-dev team
[19:48] <sil2100> #action sil2100 to announce athos's successful application
[19:48] <meetingology> ACTION: sil2100 to announce athos's successful application
[19:48] <sil2100> Okay, let's quickly move on
[19:48] <sil2100> #topic Review of previous action items
[19:49] <sil2100> teward follow up to get all application process wiki/docs to explain the process to be able to edit wiki pages, for applicants who don't yet have wiki edit access (carried over)
[19:49] <sil2100> Is that still ongoing? If yes, let's carry over!
[19:49] <teward> unless someone wants to do that instead, carry over
[19:49] <sil2100> I'll carry over, but anyone with free cycles please feel free to pick this up
[19:50] <sil2100> #action teward follow up to get all application process wiki/docs to explain the process to be able to edit wiki pages, for applicants who don't yet have wiki edit access (carried over)
[19:50] <meetingology> ACTION: teward follow up to get all application process wiki/docs to explain the process to be able to edit wiki pages, for applicants who don't yet have wiki edit access (carried over)
[19:50] <sil2100> #topic Outstanding mailing list requests to assign
[19:50] <sil2100> I don't think we have any?
[19:50] <sil2100> Please correct me if I'm wrong
[19:51] <sil2100> #topic AOB
[19:51] <sil2100> (since no Open TB bugs)
[19:51] <sil2100> Anything we want to talk about?
[19:52] <sil2100> I don't think I have anything
[19:52] <teward> nothing here
[19:52] <sil2100> #endmeeting
[19:52] <meetingology> Meeting ended at 19:52:43 UTC.  Minutes at https://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2022/ubuntu-meeting.2022-08-08-19.21.moin.txt
[19:52] <sil2100> Thank you everyone o/
[19:53] <lucaskanashiro[m> \o
[19:53] <teward> *rolls back into bed*
[19:53] <rbasak> Thank you for chairing!
[19:53] <athos> \o


[00:19] <robert_ancell> RAOF, math question about order of operations - do you know if the order of multiplication and division is strictly required to be left to right?  I'd like to do multiplication first so the following works: 1×10²÷2×10¹
[00:19] <RAOF> robert_ancell: Multiplication & division are commutative; it doesn't matter which way you order them.
[00:19] <RAOF> robert_ancell: In fact, division doesn't exist.  It's a convenient fiction.
[00:20] <robert_ancell> RAOF, if you treat the above as exponential numbers it does make a difference unfortunately
[00:20] <RAOF> Well, it's because you're missing some brackets.
[00:21] <RAOF> 1×10²×2^(-1)×10^(-1) will work, and doesn't matter what order you do it in.
[00:21] <robert_ancell> yes, I wonder if this is going to make exponential numbers unusable
[00:21] <robert_ancell> (without brackets)
[00:22] <robert_ancell> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=620191
[00:22] <ubot2> Gnome bug 620191 in general "Exp button replaced with x10^y caused changed semantics" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
[00:23] <RAOF> So, how do you tell the difference between (1×10²) (semantically a single number with an exponential representation) and 1×10²?
[00:23] <robert_ancell> RAOF, that's it, I can't
[00:23] <robert_ancell> Though visually you would expect to be able to, and if you wrote the equation on paper you wouldn't bother with brackets (but might use some spacing to distinguish)
[00:24] <JanC> eh, what's the difference?  :P
[00:24] <RAOF> Well, I *personally* wouldn't write a number like that :)
[00:24] <robert_ancell> JanC, the difference matters when you do the above division example
[00:24] <JanC> according to the math I learned, they are exactly the same?
[00:25] <robert_ancell> RAOF, what would you write?
[00:25] <RAOF> If you want to support it I think you'll need a dedicated button.
[00:25] <RAOF> robert_ancell: I'd probably enclose them in brackets.
[00:26] <robert_ancell> So I'm wondering if I could be clever and work out the difference but I think it would just make the match unpredictable (and probably incorrect)
[00:26] <RAOF> But that's partially because I'm a mathematician, not an engineer :)
[00:26] <robert_ancell> RAOF, sure.  So that sounds like the correct solution, I have to decide if the correct solution is more important than the practical solution. hmmm
[00:27] <JanC> eh, I'm not a mathematician, and I use brackets when I want to override normal operation order
[00:28] <JanC> they teached that in primary school IIRC  ;)
[00:28] <RAOF> I think you'll need a dedicated button - it's a different way to enter a number, one that's basically indistingishable from entering an operation.
[00:28] <RAOF> Hm.  If you had a dedicated button you could also do funky things, like preserve precision across calculations.
[00:29] <RAOF> JanC: Yeah, but engineers (and scientists) deal with numbers like 2.53×10² _all the time_.
[00:29] <JanC> is this about an alternative to xEy notation used by many calculators?
[00:29] <robert_ancell> JanC, so if you wanted to do that division, do you think you would have put the brackets in the first time?  Would you have been suprised if you got the wrong answer?
[00:30] <robert_ancell> JanC, yes, I removed that notation, I've been trying to get gcalctool to do correct mathematical notation where possible
[00:30] <robert_ancell> RAOF, the issue is parsing the 'E' notation, as E can be a variable now.  Do you know of any alternative symbols to use?
[00:31] <JanC> eh, E can be a variable in the middle ?
[00:33] <robert_ancell> JanC, "10E-2"
[00:33] <robert_ancell> I need a unicode "*10" glyph :)
[00:33] <JanC> still, there is nothing that looks like an operator before the E ?
[00:34] <JanC> depends on how you parse things of course
[00:34] <robert_ancell> 10E = 10*E
[00:35] <robert_ancell> so now you can do calculations like 2πr which I think is a bigger win
[00:36] <JanC> but that would be wrong syntax if you wanted to express an exponent?
[00:36] <robert_ancell> if you have a variable E, e.g. E=2, 10E-2 = 18
[00:36] <JanC> oh
[00:36] <JanC> you want to remove the need for * ?
[00:36] <JanC> please don't  :P
[00:37] <RAOF> robert_ancell: I think there actually is a ×10 glyph
[00:37] <robert_ancell> it's gone! How can you do polynomials without it?  (The syntax choices are in the order that is is taught in schools, i.e. polynomials are a higher priority than exponential numbers)
[00:46] <RAOF> robert_ancell: Hm.  Can you have 3.65EXP6 translate to the glyphs 3.65×10⁶ and parse that specially?  Users are unlikely to be entering ×10⁶ themselves, right?
[00:47] <robert_ancell> RAOF, Ctrl+E enters ×10 and puts you in superscript mode, so it is fast to enter exponentials (as long as you work out the shortcut key - it's in the tooltip)
[00:48] <JanC> RAOF: I enter that when writing text, but in general not on a calculator  ;)
[00:48] <robert_ancell> and again, 3.65EXP-6 could be a valid equation
[00:49] <robert_ancell> What calculators do you guys use?  I really want a good engineering/scientific/programming calculator app I can recommend that advanced users install.  The best I have found are speedcrunch and qalculate
[00:50] <RAOF> I don't use a calculator.  Mathematician's don't deal with numbers. :)
[00:50] <JanC> a python shell  ;)
[00:51] <robert_ancell> heh, we're all the wrong class of users :)
[00:52] <JanC> but why would people want to do polynomials on their calculator?
[00:52] <JanC> I never owned one that could do that?
[00:54] <JanC> isn't that more something for a dedicated application?
[00:55] <robert_ancell> well, these are the sorts of calculations that people know about, so I think it makes sense to have a tool that does that.  My calculator could sort of do simple polynomials.
[00:55] <robert_ancell> I think most people are happy as long as the calculator does (1+2)*3
[00:56] <JanC> hm, what about using spaces?
[00:56] <robert_ancell> spaces for?
[00:58] <JanC> well, 3.65 * E * 6 could be writen as 3.65 E 6, but not as 3.65E6 ?
[01:00] <robert_ancell> JanC, looks too ambiguous
[01:01] <JanC> hm, another idea, variables are written in italics in math, maybe you can use that?
[01:02] <robert_ancell> I think I've seen notation where the 'E' is 3/4 size, looking for a glyph
[01:02] <robert_ancell> JanC, I explored that a while back, the problem is entering with the keyboard - either they always have to be in italics (which screws up the functions) or you need a modifier key for each variable
[01:06] <RAOF> Certainly using a different E glyph would work.
[01:08] <robert_ancell> 1ⅇ2 1⋿2
[01:08] <robert_ancell> ?
[01:08] <robert_ancell> 1𝐄2
[01:08] <robert_ancell> 1𝐸2
[01:09] <robert_ancell> 1𝑬2, 1𝗘2 1𝑬2
[01:09] <robert_ancell> 1𝝚2
[01:11] <JanC> seems like http://xrjunque.nom.es/precis/Admfns.aspx uses brackets & * when things are confusing  ;)
[01:12] <RAOF> I think the last one is better.
[01:12] <RAOF> 1𝝚2
[01:13] <robert_ancell> yes, I think I'll do that
[01:13] <robert_ancell> It will be optional though, or perhaps it should happen automatically in engineering mode?
[01:13] <RAOF> ⅇ is blackboard bold, and will probably confuse mathematicians.  ⋿ looks a lot like a reverse “there exists” quantifier; I'm not sure what that's for :).
[01:13] <RAOF> Probably automatically in engineering mode.
[01:14] <robert_ancell> RAOF, it is "notation bag membership"
[01:14] <robert_ancell> whatever that is
[01:14] <RAOF> Ah, ok.
[01:24] <robert_ancell> hmm, bugzilla freaked out with that glyph, cut off half my comment!!
[01:25] <RAOF> :)
[01:41] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, hey, can you look at brasero in bzr?  It's not ubuntu-desktop uploadable
[01:42] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: Sure.
[01:44] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: Slight correction, you say in your changelog that its a rebase on debian testing, but the most recent debian changelog entry is unstable.
[01:46] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, right, I pulled it from testing, but it's just the version copied from unstable.  Feel free to correct (I wasn't sure at the time but I have been making later packages match the last changelog entry)
[01:46] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: heh ok, will adjust.
[01:56]  * robert_ancell argh! I build in a chroot and it still doesn't work when I upload!
[02:24] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: brasero uploaded
[02:29] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, thanks
[02:30] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: np
[03:36] <Sarvatt> well all this talk about gcalctool made me pull the hold off my old version and I noticed the bit editor is fixed, you rock robert_ancell! :) it stopped showing when you inputted any hex characters for awhile there and thats all I use it for
[03:37] <robert_ancell> Sarvatt, yeah, the last release was a bit of a problem.  Let me know if you find any issues in the new one!
[03:37] <Sarvatt> need to decide hex register dumps
[03:37] <Sarvatt> decode*
[03:38] <robert_ancell> Sarvatt, example?
[03:43] <Sarvatt> pulling this out of my rear here but if you run say intel_reg_dumper, it gives off a list of register dumps and you can decode what they mean in the docs. like say bit 14 of the FBC_STATUS register indicates its enabled
[03:43] <Sarvatt> but all you get from the dumper is 0x053f03ff
[03:44] <robert_ancell> Sarvatt, can you put an example in paste.ubuntu.com?  Is the issue the 0x?
[03:44] <Sarvatt> from october until lucid's release if you entered say A it immediately stopped showing the bit representation of what you're inputting
[03:45] <Sarvatt> only worked in decimal
[03:46] <Sarvatt> like i'd enter 053 and it'd update it as I went but once I put in that f it just greyed out the area
[03:46] <robert_ancell> Sarvatt, I'm confused, I thought you said there was a problem in the latest version
[03:47] <Sarvatt> oh no I'm sorry, I was saying all the talk about it made me remove the hold for the really old version I had that worked to try it out and I saw it was fixed now
[03:47] <robert_ancell> Sarvatt, great :)
[05:19] <pitti> Good morning
[05:23] <robert_ancell> pitti, hey
[05:24] <pitti> hey robert_ancell, how are you?
[05:24] <robert_ancell> pitti, good! Guess it's your tuesday now so I have to stop uploading :)
[05:24] <pitti> heh
[08:02] <didrocks> good morning
[08:03] <pitti> bonjour didrocks
[08:03] <didrocks> Guten Morgen pitti, how are you? at work at 6AM as usually in Munich apparenty? ;)
[08:04] <pitti> yep :)
[08:10] <didrocks> pitti: do you think that's because this blueprint wasn't accepted for UDS-M "sprint" that it doesn't appear in the WI tracker: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/dx-m-unity-une-integration ?
[08:16] <pitti> didrocks: I fixed the blueprint syntax, "work items" must not appear in [ ]
[08:16] <didrocks> pitti: urgh, my fault so, sorry. Thanks! :)
[08:16] <pitti> de rien :)
[08:49] <summers> i would like to invite everyone to my new ubuntu channel, #ubuntu-faggots
[08:49] <summers> +o for everyone
[09:00] <pitti> thanks, jussi
[09:00] <pitti> I didn't really get the joke, but it didn't sound constructive
[09:00] <seb128> hello pitti
[09:00] <pitti> bonjour seb128
[09:00] <jussi> pitti: he is a problem user that has been spamming pretty much across the ubuntu namespace
[09:01] <pitti> argh, I thought I just fixed those )#$*#$ retracers
[09:01]  * pitti pokes harder
[09:01] <didrocks> hey seb128
[09:01] <seb128> hello didrocks
[09:02] <didrocks> seb128: which version of mutter do you need for gnome-shell?
[09:02] <didrocks> 2.31+ or 2.30 is enough?
[09:02] <seb128> 31
[09:03] <didrocks> seb128: understood, thanks :)
[09:03] <didrocks> seb128: how are you btw?
[09:04] <seb128> didrocks, I'm great, thank you, what about you?
[09:04] <rodrigo_> morning
[09:04] <didrocks> seb128: slowly recovering up from the lack of sleep. Otherwise I'm good thanks :)
[09:04] <didrocks> hey rodrigo_
[09:04] <seb128> hey rodrigo_
[09:04] <rodrigo_> what's the process to get a package added to ubuntu universe?
[09:04] <rodrigo_> hi didrocks, seb128
[09:05] <jussi> Ill leave you good people alone again. Have fun!
[09:05] <rodrigo_> it's about wdfs, for tomboy webdav syncing
[09:05] <seb128> rodrigo_, easier is to get it in debian, otherwise try #ubuntu-motu or wiki documentation
[09:06] <rodrigo_> didrocks, btw, haven't forgotten about the couchdb-based dconf backend, just waiting on desrt to write the API needed
[09:06] <rodrigo_> seb128, ok
[09:06] <didrocks> rodrigo_: sweet! no hurry in any case :)
[09:12] <robert_ancell> seb128, hey, there is an evince update in bzr if you want to sponsor.
[09:13] <seb128> hey robert_ancell
[09:13] <robert_ancell> didrocks, thanks for the autotools heads up!
[09:13] <seb128> robert_ancell, ok, can do that later, I'm catching up with other things right now
[09:13] <seb128> or maybe didrocks wants to do some sponsoring ;-)
[09:13] <robert_ancell> seb128, it's not critical, just a merge
[09:13] <seb128> robert_ancell, btw we settled on the dconf binaries yesterday
[09:13] <robert_ancell> seb128, yup, saw that.  Left them in one package I see :)
[09:14] <seb128> right, since nothing is supposed to use the lib and there is abi, api, dbus compability whatsoever
[09:14] <seb128> right, since nothing is supposed to use the lib and there is abi, api, dbus compability whatsoever
[09:14] <seb128> ups
[09:15] <seb128> I somewhat think it's an upstream fail but shrug
[09:15] <robert_ancell> seb128, yeah, that was what I was worried about.
[09:15] <seb128> what is the point to make it a system library if it's not supposed to be one?
[09:16] <robert_ancell> it's really just a gsettings backends
[09:16] <seb128> right
[09:17] <seb128> robert_ancell, didrocks: did you guys decide to use that new cdbs autoreconf rules?
[09:19] <robert_ancell> I haven't tried the new method but the DEB_AUTO_UPDATE_* variables seem to be working well
[09:20] <seb128> well, we had discussions about it previous cycles I think
[09:20] <robert_ancell> didrocks, I think the main difference will be one line instead of 4 in debian/rules?  i.e. autoreconf runs the same set of tools
[09:20] <seb128> it's not using autoreconf but trying to call autoconf, automake etc
[09:20] <seb128> where autoreconf has the logic to run autotools in the right order to work
[09:21] <robert_ancell> seb128, sure, it will be better to use autoreconf
[09:21] <robert_ancell> (my point being I've done a number of packages and they seem to build well, so I expect the autoreconf stuff will work just as well)
[09:22] <seb128> ok, nice
[09:24] <seb128> pitti, did you see my workitems ping yesterday?
[09:24] <seb128> pitti, could you reset the maverick charts for us?
[09:24] <pitti> seb128: no, I don't think I did
[09:24] <seb128> the trendline is not adjusted we want to start from now
[09:24] <pitti> hm, we did last week already?
[09:24] <pitti> ok
[09:24] <seb128> see http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-desktop-team.html
[09:24] <seb128> I checked with rickspencer3 and he agreed to reset
[09:25] <didrocks> seb128: robert_ancell I guess this tool is better if debian is using it, we can reduce the diff too
[09:25] <didrocks> seb128: robert_ancell: needs sponsoring for evince?
[09:25] <seb128> didrocks, debian is not using it they don't need to autoreconf at build time usually
[09:25] <seb128> didrocks, if you can sponsor it that would be nice, I'm looking to some workitems and other things right now
[09:26] <didrocks> seb128: sure but we have a tool that is called on the right time, copying the old configure and some cleaning safety
[09:26] <didrocks> seb128: way better to redo that for every package
[09:26] <seb128> right
[09:26] <didrocks> so i'll be in favor going this path
[09:26] <seb128> I'm just saying it's not going to win us lot of diff over debian
[09:26] <didrocks> seb128: doing evince
[09:26] <seb128> not arguing we should not use it ;-)
[09:26] <seb128> thanks
[09:27] <seb128> robert_ancell, great merge work ;-)
[09:27] <robert_ancell> seb128, so much merging to do... :)
[09:27] <seb128> robert_ancell, we should be almost done no?
[09:28] <seb128> don't bother for those were the packaging is very different
[09:28] <seb128> ie gdm
[09:28] <robert_ancell> seb128, I see you've already got stuck into the gdm anger this morning :)
[09:28] <seb128> lol
[09:29] <pitti> seb128: committed
[09:29] <seb128> pitti, danke
[09:29] <pitti> seb128: btw, http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-desktop-team-maverick-alpha-1.html seems a bit overly optimistic?
[09:29] <seb128> robert_ancell, can you push you rhythmbox changes?
[09:30] <seb128> pitti, right, it was sort of a fuzzy target
[09:30] <robert_ancell> seb128, whoops, pushing now
[09:30] <seb128> I'm moving things to alpha-2 tiday
[09:30] <robert_ancell> we need that tool
[09:30] <seb128> today
[09:30] <pitti> although the dconf one is done
[09:30] <seb128> robert_ancell, thanks
[09:30] <pitti> seb128: you can mark dconf as done
[09:30] <pitti> congrats to robert_ancell for doing all his alpha-1 tasks :)
[09:30] <seb128> pitti, right, doing so, thanks
[09:30]  * pitti hugs robert_ancell
[09:30] <seb128> pitti, did you review the binaries?
[09:30] <pitti> seb128: erm, no, did you ask me to?
[09:30] <pitti> sorry if I missed it
[09:30] <robert_ancell> ok gtg, see you guys tomorrow
[09:30] <pitti> good night robert_ancell
[09:31] <seb128> pitti, no, but since you rejected the first upload I figured you would review the new one
[09:31] <pitti> ah, can do in a minute
[09:31] <pitti> just uploading udisks
[09:31] <seb128> pitti, sorry if that was wrong assumption I did ;-)
[09:31] <seb128> pitti, danke
[09:32] <ara> seb128, shall we send the call for testing now?
[09:33] <seb128> ara, hey, how are you?
[09:33] <ara> seb128, doing good, thanks. yourself?
[09:33] <seb128> I'm great thank you!
[09:34] <seb128> ara, the call for testing, yes please, send it whenever you are ready ;-)
[09:34] <ara> seb128, OK, will do
[09:34] <seb128> ara, thanks!
[09:34] <ara> ubuntu-devel and ubuntu-qa?
[09:34]  * seb128 hugs ara for the great work
[09:34]  * ara hugs seb128 back
[09:34] <seb128> ara, yes
[09:41] <pitti> seb128: dconf newed
[09:42] <seb128> pitti, thanks!
[09:56] <mvo> slomo, seb128: what is the plan for gnome-codec-installer for maverick? will it be superseeded by session-installer? or is it still worth keeping it?
[09:58] <slomo> mvo: what's session-installer?
[09:58] <seb128> mvo, I've no opinion on it, I'm open to discuss it
[09:58] <mvo> slomo: the thing that glatzor works on to provide a packagekit compatible dbus api
[09:59] <mvo> seb128: ok, I was wondering if its woth spending time to make the backend for g-c-i optionally use aptdaemon
[09:59] <mvo> I guess that is a good move
[09:59] <mvo> slomo: I assume you would take a aptdaemon backend patch?
[09:59] <seb128> I know user testing showed that g-c-i has not a nice user experience
[10:00] <seb128> not sure if we want to work over it or just drop it for something else though
[10:00] <mvo> mostly because of our package naming
[10:00] <slomo> mvo: ah, well, the session-installer thing is suboptimal because of packagekit restrictions
[10:00] <seb128> that an the number of clicks
[10:00] <seb128> and the fact that it does list and select all the alternative for you
[10:00] <mvo> slomo: what problems exactly? do you have more info on this?
[10:01] <seb128> and the fact that there is quite some dialog jumping around during the installation
[10:01] <slomo> mvo: packagekit only knows about "success" or "failure", the codec installer has more than that (e.g. some plugins could be installed)
[10:01] <mvo> seb128: is there a summary of the issue? I know that there is talk about it, I heard about it only as chat, not as a written summary or something
[10:01] <mvo> slomo: aha, ok
[10:01] <seb128> mvo, not sure, I can check with ivanka if you want
[10:02] <mvo> seb128: thanks, would be nice
[10:02] <seb128> mvo, the complain were the number of clicks, the dialogs jumping rather than having something integrated to the software and the names
[10:02] <seb128> mvo, I will check with design
[10:02] <mvo> seb128: number of clicks> well, one to confirm the search, one to install
[10:02] <mvo> plus codec-warning-dialog (I would love to ditch this one)
[10:02] <seb128> on their user testing it was over ten clicks to get rhythmbox to play a mp3
[10:03] <seb128> on a stock installation
[10:03] <seb128> and they said it should be one click ;-)
[10:03] <mvo> seb128: it *should* be no click ;)
[10:03] <seb128> well you need to ask the user
[10:03] <mvo> seb128: but there are various contrains that make the ideal-world less ideal :P
[10:03] <mvo> seb128: ideally it would be installed by default
[10:04] <seb128> right, there is ideally what would happen and what we can technically do
[10:05] <mvo> yeah, that is my point. but I guess if there is no design yet for it, then its not feasible to radically change it for maverick
[10:05] <mvo> not enough time
[10:05] <seb128> right
[10:06] <mvo> thanks seb128, I do the merge and add a aptdaemon backend and send that as a patch to slomo then for now
[10:06] <slomo> mvo: sounds good
[10:06] <seb128> thanks
[10:06] <mvo> and maybe make it use less windows (more inline progress like the latest update-manager)
[10:07] <mvo> seb128: do you know what happend with this "morphing windows" stuff from DX? that may be a good target for this
[10:08] <seb128> no really, check with bratsche
[10:10] <mvo> ok, will do. thanks
[10:10] <mvo> g-c-i> fun little app, I like it
[10:10]  * mvo hugs slomo
[10:12] <slomo> :)
[10:25] <seb128> mvo, I still get update-notifier icon in the tray
[10:27] <seb128> chrisccoulson, hey
[10:27] <chrisccoulson> hey seb128, how are you today?
[10:28] <seb128> I'm great ;-)
[10:28] <seb128> what about you?
[10:28] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i'm good thanks, although a bit tired. i had quite a late night getting the rest of the hardy extensions updated
[10:28] <chrisccoulson> but they're all done now :)
[10:30] <mvo> seb128: aha, right. I fix it
[10:31] <seb128> mvo, thanks ;-)
[10:31] <seb128> chrisccoulson, :-(
[10:31] <seb128> chrisccoulson, sorry that you had to work on an holiday
[10:31] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - that's ok, it's better than doing gardening ;)
[10:31] <chrisccoulson> although i had to do some of that too
[10:32] <seb128> lol
[10:32] <seb128> it's not raining in the uk?
[10:32] <seb128> we have cold rainy weather there
[10:33] <didrocks> well, not sure why robert_ancell remerged evince as it's a no win (debian just renamed the patch I've integrated as a SRU differently), but well, pushed
[10:33] <didrocks> hey chrisccoulson
[10:33] <ayan> morning guys.
[10:33] <seb128> chrisccoulson, https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-mozilla-team-discussion btw
[10:33] <seb128> hey ayan, how are you?
[10:33] <seb128> chrisccoulson, could you update your alpha1 items there?
[10:34] <seb128> chrisccoulson, I guess you want to move those to alpha2 now?
[10:34] <ayan> seb128: doing great.
[10:36] <chrisccoulson> hey didrocks
[10:37] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i can do that. i discussed those with rick on the phone last week and he suggested i move all of my alpha1 work items to alpha 2 anyway
[10:37] <seb128> chrisccoulson, now is time to do it, we will review the chart for the meeting today
[10:39] <seb128> didrocks, right, robert_ancell seems to be trying to be a good citizen and merges all sources once for the cycle
[10:40] <didrocks> seb128: I've already merged evince one week ago, hence my wondering…
[10:40] <seb128> he maybe didn't notice
[10:41] <seb128> I can't really speak for him though ;-)
[10:41] <didrocks> yeah, I guess that if he grepped on merges.ubuntu.com, the "updated merge" isn't really noticeable :)
[10:55] <seb128> mvo, the rgba emacs issue is likely an emacs bug
[10:59] <mvo> seb128: fair enough
[11:00] <seb128> I will let cody comment
[11:11] <seb128> mvo, using the new update-manager in maverick you need to enter the polkit authentification once for refresh and once to install upgrades, that's a bug or a polkit limitation since those are different actions so require different permissions set?
[11:12] <seb128> mvo, should I open a bug? ;-)
[11:14] <mvo> seb128: please open a bug
[11:14] <mvo> seb128: its kind-of a feature
[11:15] <mvo> seb128: having fine-grained control over the thing
[11:15] <mvo> seb128: please report against aptdaemon
[11:15] <seb128> mvo, ok
[11:17] <seb128> mvo, will do that after lunch
[11:17] <seb128> chrisccoulson, when is the firefox new version scheduled for now?
[11:17] <seb128> upstream schedule
[11:18] <mvo> seb128: lunch> good idea!
[11:18] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - june 7th
[11:18] <seb128> chrisccoulson, thanks
[11:19] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - https://wiki.mozilla.org/Releases/ says "early June" now, but an e-mail i have specifies the actual date
[11:19] <mvo> slomo: aptdaemon backend is ready, I'm not sure if I can commit directly to svn, I will send you a bugreport+patch
[11:19] <seb128> chrisccoulson, ok
[11:22] <seb128> chrisccoulson, pitti: hey
[11:22] <seb128> do you know where https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Mozilla/FirefoxHardyJaunty should be sent?
[11:22] <seb128> u-d-a?
[11:23] <pitti> uda sounds fine
[11:26] <seb128> pitti, thanks
[11:26] <seb128> chrisccoulson, can you check that the wiki draft is ok with you?
[11:26] <seb128> I've just updated it to point to ara's email for testing instructions
[11:26] <seb128> pitti, ^ comments are welcome from you as well if you have any
[11:26] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, can do
[11:26] <seb128> (rickspencer asked me to send that announce when we are ready for testing)
[11:27] <seb128> hum, 1, 2, 3 are missing it seems
[11:28] <seb128> chrisccoulson, you are editing? can you add
[11:28] <seb128> [1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/Lucid/FirefoxNewSupportModel
[11:28] <seb128> [2] https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mozilla-security/+archive/ppa
[11:28] <seb128> or the ppa is rather 3
[11:29] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i was just going to do that
[11:29] <seb128> thanks
[11:34] <ara> seb128, chrisccoulson: I also blogged about it for people reading only planet.u.c (http://ubuntutesting.wordpress.com/2010/06/01/call-for-testing-firefox/)
[11:34] <seb128> ara, thanks!
[11:40] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - ok, i've finished editing now
[11:40] <seb128> chrisccoulson, thank you!
[11:55] <seb128> chrisccoulson, "New firefox support model and coming changes in stable updates"
[11:56] <seb128> chrisccoulson, "New firefox support model and coming changes in stable updates"
[11:56] <seb128> grrr
[11:56] <seb128> sorry
[11:56] <seb128> chrisccoulson, does that seem good for the email title?
[11:56] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, that seems fine
[11:56] <seb128> or "coming changes for the stable Ubuntu versions"?
[11:59] <seb128> ok sent
[11:59] <seb128> pitti, who is moderating u-d-a?
[12:00] <pitti> I can
[12:00] <seb128> pitti, if you could review my email there that would be great
[12:01] <pitti> it's not in the queue yet, though
[12:02] <pitti> From<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[12:02] <pitti> Subject:  Σενάριο καταστροφής και… κρατικοποίησης τραπεζών!
[12:02] <pitti> seb128: ^ this wasn't it, right? :-)
[12:02]  * pitti just killed that
[12:02] <seb128> pitti, it was!
[12:02] <seb128> jk ;-)
[12:02] <chrisccoulson> lol
[12:02] <pitti> so, might take a bit
[12:02] <pitti> I'm back in 30, lunch time
[12:02] <seb128> pitti, it went through it seems
[12:02] <pitti> ah, so someone beat me to it then
[12:02] <pitti> good
[12:03] <chrisccoulson> so, the fun begins now ;)
[12:03] <seb128> pitti, is uda moderated for ubuntu emails?
[12:03] <pitti> yes
[12:03] <seb128> pitti, it's weird, I pinged you when I sent the email
[12:03] <seb128> somebody is very efficient at moderating it seems ;-)
[12:03] <pitti> or there is a whitelist, which I'm not on :) (nor Steve, etc.)
[12:04] <pitti> seb128 special magic
[12:04] <pitti> anyway, bbl
[12:04] <seb128> enjoy!
[12:04] <seb128> lunch there as well
[12:04]  * didrocks is sure there is a lot of (if nick == "seb128") everywhere in ubuntu and in the infrastructure :)
[12:04] <didrocks> pitti: seb128 enjoy your lunch :)
[12:08] <seb128> didrocks, thanks, you as well if you didn't lunch yet
[12:09] <didrocks> seb128: thanks :) I'll a little bit later, still want to finish some stuff before
[13:29] <mvo> pitti: silly question, why does the stuff from https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-m-update-manager-improvements not show up on the foundations workitems traker?
[13:29] <seb128> mvo, you need to accept it
[13:29] <pitti> mvo: it's only proposed for maverick, not accepted
[13:30] <seb128> mvo, the serie goal
[13:30] <mvo> aha, and I have not the powers to do that myself. thanks, I will ask colin to ack it
[13:30] <pitti> mvo: can do for you
[13:31] <pitti> mvo: done, and fixed the "workitems" -> "work items" typo, too
[13:31] <mvo> thanks :)
[13:34] <seb128> vuntz, hey
[13:34] <seb128> vuntz, could you get dconf listed on your gnome versions?
[13:37] <vuntz> seb128: ah, dconf. Hrm, good point
[13:37] <seb128> vuntz, thanks!
[13:51] <ccheney> good morning
[13:52] <kenvandine> good morning ccheney
[13:52] <kenvandine> and everyone else
[13:53] <pitti> hey kenvandine
[13:55] <kenvandine> hey pitti
[14:00] <seb128> hello rickspencer3, kenvandine, ccheney
[14:00] <seb128> hello rickspencer3, kenvandine, ccheney
[14:00] <ccheney> seb128, hi
[14:00] <seb128> hello rickspencer3, kenvandine, ccheney
[14:00] <seb128> ups
[14:00] <seb128> sorry
[14:00] <ccheney> heh :)
[14:01] <seb128> I though I was on the dialog next to xchat
[14:02] <seb128> kenvandine, https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/dx-m-sound-menu-v2
[14:02] <seb128> kenvandine, how are your work items for alpha1 there going?
[14:03] <kenvandine> almost done
[14:03] <kenvandine> bindings are done
[14:03] <kenvandine> but distcheck is upset
[14:03] <rickspencer3> hi all
[14:03] <kenvandine> hopefully finish that this morning
[14:03] <didrocks> hey rickspencer3
[14:03] <kenvandine> hey rickspencer3
[14:03] <didrocks> hello kenvandine
[14:04] <kenvandine> hey didrocks
[14:04] <seb128> rickspencer3, how are you?
[14:04] <rickspencer3> seb128, ok
[14:04] <seb128> rickspencer3, I've updated the team meeting template, should the members on rotations still be listed there?
[14:04] <rickspencer3> I'm trying to get up a little earlier this week
[14:05] <seb128> rickspencer3, I left them for now since they still have some % of their time and might want to joing the meetings
[14:05] <rickspencer3> seb128, yeah, I need to update the template
[14:05] <rickspencer3> I usually just edit it a bit when I create it
[14:05] <seb128> rickspencer3, I've updated the team members and the maverick workitems url
[14:05] <seb128> I was just not sure about the rotations
[14:05] <seb128> I left those for now
[14:05] <rickspencer3> thanks seb128
[14:06] <rickspencer3> seb128, how are you? looks like quite a bit of work got done  yesterday despite the holidays
[14:07] <chrisccoulson> asac - do we need to migrate settings in /etc/firefox-3.0/pref to the new location in hardy (or is it even safe to do that)?
[14:07] <seb128> rickspencer3, I'm great ;-)
[14:07] <rickspencer3> chouette!
[14:07] <seb128> rickspencer3, we got the call for testing and announce for firefox updates done as well
[14:07] <seb128> thanks to ara and chrisccoulson
[14:07] <chrisccoulson> i just noticed the old directory is still there after the upgrade after looking at the comments on http://mozilla.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/result/4173/537
[14:07] <rickspencer3> yup
[14:07] <chrisccoulson> hey :)
[14:11] <seb128> aquarius, hi
[14:11] <seb128> aquarius, did you open that pygobject bug?
[14:11] <chrisccoulson> ara - all of the extensions are in the PPA now btw, i'm not sure if you want to add these to http://mozilla.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/test/4173
[14:12] <aquarius> seb128, I haven't yet because it doesn't show up until a patch goes into Rhythmbox to add Python bindings for impl_want_uri and impl_add_uri
[14:13] <seb128> aquarius, well the bug is there anyway, I wanted to clear that from my sru list
[14:14] <aquarius> seb128, oh, ok -- I figured it wouldn't need SRUing because the version of RB in lucid doesn't show the bug...but I'll go report it once I finish this conf call
[14:15] <seb128> aquarius, well, I though it would be useful for you to get the fix in lucid and it might happen in other cases than rhythmbox no?
[14:15] <seb128> aquarius, thanks
[14:15] <aquarius> seb128, agreed, so I should have filed it. Will do :-)
[14:16] <asac> chrisccoulson: your call ;)
[14:16] <asac> would obviously be nice,
[14:17] <seb128> hey asac
[14:17] <seb128> how are you?
[14:17] <seb128> back to europe? ;-)
[14:18] <asac> seb128: yeah ;)
[14:19] <asac> and feel pretty wasted from this timezone flight thing and direclty being busted with work ;) ... but we already know thats life ;)
[14:19] <seb128> hehe
[14:53] <seb128> pitti, could you accept the rhythmbox sru to updates now? I want to do another sru upload
[14:53] <seb128> it has 8 days of testing and has been verified now
[14:54] <pitti> seb128: ack
[14:54] <seb128> thanks
[14:57] <LaserJock> didrocks: so my netbook went kinda crazy yesterday. I got the new blingier netbook-launcher, but I lost suspend/resume. I then rebooted a few times and eventually I got suspend/resume back and no blingy n-l
[14:58] <didrocks> LaserJock: hum that's weird. I don't think this is related to the update, but hopefully, that's easy to check
[14:58] <didrocks> LaserJock: first, have a look at your GNOME session in gdm and try to do the same :)
[14:58] <LaserJock> well, I can't repeat it is the thing
[14:59] <didrocks> LaserJock: then, if it's not related, try to remove CLUTTER_VBLANK in the exec= like of /etc/xdg/xdg-une/netbook-launcher.desktop
[14:59] <didrocks> urgh
[14:59] <LaserJock> I mean, I spent a day with this blingy n-l
[14:59] <LaserJock> then mysteriously after several reboots it went away
[15:00] <didrocks> hum… that's weird, you mean that netbook-launcher is slow now?
[15:00] <LaserJock> slow? no, not at all
[15:00] <LaserJock> it just doesn't have the cool effects
[15:00] <didrocks> LaserJock: hum, that's what you called blingy. are you sure it wasn't the 2D session you were on?
[15:01] <LaserJock> I don't know, could be
[15:01] <LaserJock> it used a fair amount of CPU
[15:01] <didrocks> LaserJock: logout, and try "Ubuntu Netbook 2D"
[15:01] <LaserJock> k
[15:01] <LaserJock> brb
[15:03] <LaserJock> didrocks: yep, that was it
[15:04] <LaserJock> I thought the 2D n-l was more boring :-)
[15:04] <didrocks> LaserJock: ok, for unknown reason, it fallbacked for you to the 2D session before rebooting :)
[15:04] <LaserJock> so I guess something was weird with my kernel and I lost suspend/resume/3D
[15:04] <didrocks> yeah
[15:05] <LaserJock> alright, well, mystery solved I guess
[15:05] <LaserJock> it had some cool effects though
[15:06] <didrocks> LaserJock: the goes to the up or down? I understand better our conversation now :)
[15:06] <LaserJock> yeah
[15:07] <LaserJock> :-)
[16:51] <chrisccoulson> word travels fast: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=ODMwNw
[16:51] <chrisccoulson> :)
[16:55] <bcurtiswx> chrisccoulson: someone actually pays attention to mailing lists??? :P
[16:56] <LaserJock> mailing lists? I assume phoronix has an IRC by this point ;-)
[16:56] <LaserJock> *IRC bot
[17:29] <rickspencer3> ArneGoetje, bryceh, chrisccoulson, ccheney, didrocks, kenvandine, Riddell, seb128, pitti - Team meeting time in 1 minute?
[17:29] <didrocks> hey o/
[17:30] <rickspencer3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-06-01
[17:30] <seb128> hey
[17:30] <rickspencer3> should be quick today, I guess
[17:30] <rickspencer3> not a lot on the agenda
[17:30] <ccheney> hi :)
[17:30] <Riddell> afternoon
[17:30] <ogra> you should put a sign into #ubuntu-meeting for the community :)
[17:30] <ogra> someone is waiting for the desktop team meeting there it seems
[17:31] <rickspencer3> ooops
[17:31] <rickspencer3> ogra, can you send them here please?
[17:31] <rickspencer3> shall we start?
[17:31] <ogra> Riddell already did
[17:31] <rickspencer3> thanks ogra
[17:31] <rickspencer3> and Riddell
[17:31] <rickspencer3> Outstanding actions from last meeting
[17:31] <tremolux> heya everyone
[17:31] <rickspencer3> ACTION: chrisccoulson to investigate any chromium changes appropriate for the distro
[17:31] <chrisccoulson> hello everyone
[17:31] <rickspencer3> hi tremolux
[17:32]  * rickspencer3 adds tremolux to list of pingees
[17:32]  * kenvandine waves
[17:32] <tremolux> rickspencer3: :D
[17:32] <rickspencer3> chrisccoulson, I assume that you've been way to busy for this
[17:32] <chrisccoulson> well, i've not had much chance to look at anything other than firefox over the last week ;)
[17:32] <rickspencer3> good
[17:32] <rickspencer3> I would have been worried if you had been able to make time for this :)
[17:32] <rickspencer3> I would have expected some kind of "Back to the Future" scenario :)
[17:32] <chrisccoulson> lol
[17:32] <rickspencer3> ACTION: kenvandine to clarify with Dx what is in scope for A2 (DONE)
[17:33] <rickspencer3> ACTION: rickspencer3 to poke squinky about kubuntu.org
[17:33] <rickspencer3> I poked him, he said eow, last week
[17:33] <kenvandine> dx blueprints seem to be in order
[17:33] <Riddell> rickspencer3: I guess another poke is due
[17:33] <rickspencer3> Riddell, has it been done?
[17:33] <rickspencer3> *sigh*
[17:33] <Riddell> not seen anything done
[17:33] <rickspencer3> ok
[17:34] <rickspencer3> ACTION: rickspencer3 to repoke previously poked squinky
[17:34] <rickspencer3> wrt kubuntu.org branding
[17:34] <rickspencer3> moving on
[17:34] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, partner update?
[17:34] <kenvandine> sure
[17:34] <kenvandine> DX team blueprints are accepted and assigned
[17:34] <kenvandine> WIs all seem to be there
[17:34] <rickspencer3> (thus the "done" from last week's action item)
[17:35] <kenvandine> and we did the first round of weekly releases
[17:35] <kenvandine> OLS still has some work on their blueprints
[17:35] <rickspencer3> nice
[17:35] <rickspencer3> urk
[17:35] <kenvandine> their's aren't accepted for a series
[17:35] <kenvandine> he is working on getting that done today
[17:35] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, I can accept if needed, just PM links
[17:35] <kenvandine> so none of them show up in the burn downs
[17:35] <kenvandine> sure
[17:36] <rickspencer3> Riddell, Kubuntu update
[17:36] <rickspencer3> ?
[17:37] <rickspencer3> whilest he is copy and pasting: didrocks, tremolux, I think similar weekly updates on UNE and software center would be nice
[17:37] <Riddell>  * new versions of KDE 4.5, 4.4, Amarok, KOffice all in
[17:37] <Riddell>  * merges all done in main
[17:37] <Riddell>  * alpha 1 now has candidate CDs but not working especially well
[17:37] <didrocks> rickspencer3: I was just thinking about that, will do for next week :)
[17:37] <tremolux> rickspencer3: sure
[17:38] <rickspencer3> Riddell, thanks ... need any help w alpha 1 CDs?
[17:38] <Riddell> rickspencer3: don't think so, we'll sort them out
[17:38] <rickspencer3> thanks Riddell
[17:39] <rickspencer3> seb128, chrisccoulson ... would it be worthwhile to say a quick word on mozilla updates for stable releases?
[17:39] <rickspencer3> does it seem on track, etc...
[17:39] <rickspencer3> ?
[17:39] <chrisccoulson> yeah, can do, although i haven't prepared ;)
[17:39] <rickspencer3> (make sure everyone is in the loop)
[17:39] <chrisccoulson> so, seb128 sent a call for testing out today
[17:39] <seb128> (seems chrisccoulson is on it)
[17:40] <seb128> ara sent the call for testing
[17:40] <seb128> I did send the announce email
[17:40] <chrisccoulson> ah, yes ;)
[17:40] <rickspencer3> is the mozilla release date public knowledge, etc...?
[17:40] <chrisccoulson> for hardy, we have firefox and all the extensions up-to-date in the PPA, and i'm currently going through the other xulrunner rdepends
[17:40] <chrisccoulson> firefox for jaunty is done
[17:40] <chrisccoulson> and we're famous: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=ODMwNw
[17:41] <asac> we are famous?
[17:41] <chrisccoulson> the 3.6.4 release is scheduled for monday
[17:41] <chrisccoulson> asac - well, not entirely ;)
[17:41] <chrisccoulson> but word has spread quickly
[17:41] <rickspencer3> how come when chrisccoulson says this stuff, it's work, but when phoronix republishes it, it's news
[17:41] <rickspencer3> ?
[17:42] <asac> heh
[17:42] <rickspencer3> ok
[17:42] <rickspencer3> thanks for the update chrisccoulson
[17:42] <rickspencer3> and wow! thanks for all the hard work
[17:42] <asac> (oh its meeting ... /me stops)
[17:42] <chrisccoulson> heh, you're welcome ;)
[17:42] <chrisccoulson> micahg has put in a lot of effort too
[17:43] <rickspencer3> I think that "thanks" comes from everyone, the team, community, etc...
[17:43] <rickspencer3> thanks to micahg as well then :)
[17:43] <rickspencer3> and asac, and ara, and seb128 ;)
[17:43] <rickspencer3> ok, moving on?
[17:43] <rickspencer3> seb128, release status?
[17:43] <seb128> hey
[17:43] <seb128> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-desktop-team-maverick-alpha-1.html
[17:44] <seb128> is the chart for alpha1
[17:44] <seb128> we are a bit behind on this one but alpha1 was rather a target of opportunity for early start
[17:44] <seb128> we are moving things to alpha2 now
[17:44] <seb128> which brings us to http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-desktop-team-maverick-alpha-2.html
[17:45] <seb128> the trend line is not really adjusted there (will be fixed when pitti reset it for us)
[17:45] <seb128> but we can see we are lagging a bit behind
[17:45] <seb128> we just had 2 long weekends though with holidays in europe and the uk,us
[17:45] <seb128> and people have been busy doing merges or firefox updates
[17:45] <seb128> so I guess we will catch up quickly
[17:45] <seb128> don't forget to set your items to done regularly
[17:46] <seb128> so we can track progress
[17:46] <seb128> that's it
[17:46] <tremolux> rickspencer3: btw, if you like I can paste a quickly-written software-center summary
[17:46] <seb128> rickspencer3, thanks
[17:46] <kenvandine> seb128, my last a1 one will be done in a few minutes :)
[17:46] <rickspencer3> tremolux, that would be nice
[17:46] <tremolux> Progress on desktop-maverick-software-center-front-end (3 work items done)
[17:46] <tremolux> Bunch of bug fixes this week, and branch reviews/merged completed that fix memory leak issues, UI tweaks
[17:46] <tremolux> For desktop-maverick-opportunistic-apps-stable-release, we have a decision about a repo - will use a PPA
[17:46] <tremolux> and mvo and I have been planning the implementation based on that
[17:46] <tremolux> also, mvo has begun implementing LP login code, has a branch and will test with LP staging server
[17:47] <tremolux> I think that covers the main stuff
[17:47] <tremolux> is that what you are looking for?
[17:48] <rickspencer3> tremolux, yeah
[17:48] <rickspencer3> I am particularly interested in ensuring that we are in synch with launchpad team
[17:48] <rickspencer3> so a check in on their progress each week would be helpful
[17:48] <tremolux> rickspencer3: yep, understood
[17:49] <rickspencer3> and good news about deciding on the repo, Let the Games Begin!
[17:49] <rickspencer3> ok, so I am a bit concerned about our burndown charts, but seb128 covered that well
[17:49] <rickspencer3> any other business?
[17:49] <didrocks> yeah o/
[17:49] <didrocks> once you tested that firefox isn't broken for you :-) I would like to get some testing on oneconf (and not stay in a WFM state)
[17:49] <didrocks> I've made a wiki page for that: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneConf/Testing
[17:49] <didrocks> This contain mostly all the backend (both direct action and dbus activated) and would be nice to test with your setup and report bugs about invalid applications/codec listed or missing
[17:50] <didrocks> Bonus point if you test the "diff" feature in using it in more than one host as this is the interesting part :-)
[17:50] <didrocks> Otherwise I'm pretty confident on the current state and then, oneconf is just waiting on the plugin interface to be implemented in software-center
[17:50] <rickspencer3> sounds good
[17:51] <rickspencer3> ACTION: Everyone test mozilla and oneconf
[17:51] <rickspencer3> any other other business?
[17:51] <seb128> didrocks, one small note, could you try using the DesktopTeam namespace maybe, will make easier to find it ;-)
[17:51] <seb128> rickspencer3, no
[17:51] <seb128> just a reminder that we should merge on debian
[17:51] <didrocks> seb128: sure, updating so right now (the trunk)
[17:51] <seb128> so please take some time doing your merges if you didn't yet ;-)
[17:51] <seb128> didrocks, thanks
[17:52] <rickspencer3> ACTION: Everyone get caught up on Debian merges
[17:52] <rickspencer3> ok, I guess that's a wrap?
[17:53]  * rickspencer3 taps gavel
[17:53] <kenvandine> fast meeting
[17:53] <kenvandine> :)
[17:53] <didrocks> thanks ;)
[17:53] <chrisccoulson> 23 minutes ;)
[17:53] <chrisccoulson> oh
[17:53] <rickspencer3> uhoh
[17:54] <chrisccoulson> does anyone testing hardy find it really annoying that the buttons are on the right?
[17:54] <rickspencer3> haha
[17:54] <chrisccoulson> perhaps we should do a SRU to move them ;)
[17:54] <seb128> thanks rickspencer3
[17:54] <tremolux> chrisccoulson: ha!  yeah, I'm converted now too
[17:55] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i keep moving my mouse to the left now
[17:55] <rickspencer3> I always hit alt-space to manage windows
[17:55] <rickspencer3> it's like the slowest keyboard way of doing it, but I have been doing that for years
[17:56] <seb128> what does alt-space do?
[17:56] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i just tried that. it seems quite awkward to do
[17:56] <seb128> pitti, did you reset the trend lines for us?
[17:56] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - it opens the window menu
[17:56] <rickspencer3> well, I do alt-c then c, for example
[17:56] <rickspencer3> I don't actually read the menu
[17:57] <seb128> oh, right
[17:57] <pitti> seb128, rickspencer3: alpha-N trend line will reset automatically once alpha-(N-1) is released
[17:57] <seb128> ok, thanks
[17:57] <rickspencer3> pitti, ack
[17:58] <rickspencer3> pitti, how about what ivanka and TheDoctor are asking about in email?
[17:58] <pitti> seb128: I did that for the entire cycle, AFAIR
[17:58] <rickspencer3> about the design team work items?
[17:58] <pitti> rickspencer3: I'll get to it; sorry, too much distraction today with alpha-1 stuff
[17:58] <seb128> pitti, when will it be updated?
[17:58] <rickspencer3> pitti, understood
[17:58] <seb128> pitti, this night I guess?
[17:59] <pitti>         'canonical-desktop-team': 253,
[17:59] <pitti>         ('canonical-desktop-team', 'maverick-alpha-1'): 8,
[17:59] <pitti>         ('canonical-desktop-team', 'maverick-alpha-2'): 130,
[17:59] <pitti> that's what I committed some hours ago
[17:59] <pitti> it should be current _now_
[17:59] <pitti> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-desktop-team.html looks just fine to me
[18:00] <pitti> and the other ones match those numbers as well
[18:00] <pitti> seb128: so what's actually wrong?
[18:00] <seb128> pitti, the trend line start at 256?
[18:00] <seb128> I though the reset would give one bar
[18:01] <seb128> with the line starting today at 290
[18:01] <pitti> seb128: no, then we'd need to drop history entirely, and that affects charts from other teams as well
[18:01] <seb128> oh ok
[18:01] <pitti> next time we need to define a clear spec drafting cutoff point
[18:01] <pitti> at which we purge the entire DB
[18:01] <pitti> per-team purging messes up other charts and doesn't work
[18:01] <seb128> ok, makes sense
[18:01] <pitti> (for items that other team's members do for your's, and vice versa)
[18:02] <seb128> thanks, sorry for the noise
[18:03] <didrocks> seb128: do you have an example of redirection with moinsmoinswiki?
[18:03] <seb128> no
[18:03] <seb128> I'm not a wiki user
[18:03] <seb128> but don't bother for this one now
[18:04] <didrocks> seb128: ok, I'll note for later :)
[18:48] <chrisccoulson> can anybody get liferea working in hardy before the mozilla update?
[18:48] <chrisccoulson> it just freezes here :/
[18:53] <vish> didrocks: for redirect, in the old page just add:
[18:53] <vish> #redirect NameOfNewWiki
[19:01] <didrocks> vish: thanks :)
[19:01] <vish> np. :)
[19:31] <chrisccoulson> the webkit version of epiphany feels like a downgrade from the gecko version :(
[19:31] <chrisccoulson> i can't even get my extra mouse buttons to work properly
[19:31] <seb128> right
[19:31] <seb128> not a lot we can do about that though
[19:32] <chrisccoulson> yeah, it seems a bit sub-optimal for a security update though
[19:32] <seb128> it does indeed
[19:33] <seb128> there is probably not so many users on epiphany and still !lucid though
[20:55] <arand> didrocks: Since you seem to look out for metacity, are you aware of Bug #584287 (and would you mind grabbing the patch?)
[20:55] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 584287 in metacity (Ubuntu) "Unexpected X error (BadDrawable) causing metacity to abort in maverick (affects: 7) (dups: 1) (heat: 60)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/584287
[21:18] <dupondje> hi guys, did somebody already check https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/metacity/+bug/584287 ?
[21:18] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 584287 in metacity (Ubuntu) "Unexpected X error (BadDrawable) causing metacity to abort in maverick (affects: 8) (dups: 1) (heat: 60)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[21:36] <seb128> didrocks, ^ could you look at this one tomorrow?
[21:37] <fagan> I can confirm it too
[21:37] <seb128> dupondje, some people mentioned it before but most people are not running maverick yet or using compiz
[21:42] <arand> seb128: From my experience and the talk in ubuntu+1 I would consider it fully confirmed along with the patch by Fabien Tassin confirmed to fix it, not sure if it's the right way to fix it though..
[21:43] <seb128> arand, nobody said it was considered confirmed
[21:43] <seb128> we just have nobody who works on this sofware right now
[21:46] <dupondje> i'm checking it atm, but have to do the dishes :'(
[21:47] <rlameiro> hello everyone
[21:48] <rlameiro> how can I add a link to switch keyboard layout on 10.04?
[21:48] <seb128> rlameiro, hi, try #ubuntu for user questions
[21:48] <rlameiro> in Karmic it had that option, but in lucid its missing.
[21:49] <rlameiro> well, i asked in here because this is made by this team, if someone removed this functionality it is the desktop team
[21:49] <rlameiro> but ok i will go there...
[21:49] <seb128> no, if somebody removed this option it's the software writers
[21:50] <arand> seb128: Yea, just your comment before sounded a bit doubting :) And didrocks did do a merge not too long ago... But anyways, just making sure people are aware (since it breaks firefox)
[21:50] <seb128> arand, how is firefox broken? flashplayer or decorations?
[21:51] <dupondje> decorations
[21:51] <seb128> arand, in any case it's a different issue than the one listed before
[21:51] <dupondje> it flickers like hell
[21:51] <dupondje> unusable
[21:51] <dupondje> same for thunderbird etc
[21:51] <fagan> seb128: is rgba supposed to be on by default yet?
[21:51] <fagan> or is that coming later
[21:51] <seb128> fagan, depends of what you call on
[21:51] <seb128> the theme doesn't use it
[21:52] <fagan> seb128: ah that must be it
[21:52] <fagan> I was wondering I saw that csd was turned on but didnt get any rgba
[21:54] <arand> seb128: as long as firefox is present metacity is completely bust, cannot change focus or input, only if firefox is closed it comes back working, and one can get a terminal and --replace metcity as well...
[21:59] <dobey> hrmm
[22:01] <dobey> what does 'waiting for approval' mean for an upload for lucid-proposed?
[22:04] <geser> an archive admin has to press a button and let it through (accept it into the archive)
[22:04] <dobey> ah ok
[22:04] <geser> usually that also includes some checks like SRU ack and correct versioning
[22:05] <seb128> dobey, sru need to be reviewed by the sru team before being accepted though
[22:05] <seb128> so make sure you follow the sru rules
[22:06] <seb128> you need to subscribe the sru team and have a testcase and a debdiff to review on the bug
[22:06] <dobey> seb128: before being accepted in -proposed? or just in the main archive?
[22:06] <seb128> hum?
[22:06] <seb128> there is only one upload target for stable updates
[22:06] <seb128> I'm not sure to understand the question
[22:06] <seb128> lucid is stable, ie locked
[22:07] <seb128> nothing go to lucid now
[22:07] <dobey> right
[22:08] <dobey> maybe i'm confused about the process for sru then. but i thought fix in -proposed and it gets testing and then is approved to go to -updates
[22:08] <dobey> (or isn't approved if testing points that direction instead)
[22:09] <james_w> there's a first check as to whether it is suitable, and whether the rationale is good, there is a test case etc.
[22:09] <james_w> then there is the check as to whether it passed verification before it lands in -updates
[22:09] <seb128> dobey, you are right
[22:09] <seb128> but it's reviewed first
[22:09] <james_w> no point in testing something that won't be accepted later
[22:09] <dobey> ah, ok, right
[22:09] <dobey> sorry :)
[22:10] <seb128> no worry :-)
[22:10] <seb128> no worry :-)
[22:10] <seb128> ups
[22:10] <seb128> I should really turn touchpad off and use a mouse again there
[22:11] <dobey> heh
[22:12] <dobey> just buy a smaller laptop that doesn't have room for a touchpad :)
[22:20] <dobey> seb128: ok, most everything was done already for the bug anyway (already nominated, sru team subscribed, TEST CASE documented...), so I just attached the debdiff from my upload :)
[22:20] <dobey> seb128: bug is #571548
[22:21] <seb128> dobey, ok, so you just need to have somebody from the sru team to review now
[22:21] <dobey> yep
[22:21] <dobey> thanks
[22:42] <dupondje> ok
[22:42] <dupondje> without client side decoration patch
[22:42] <dupondje> metacity works !
[23:58] <rickspencer3> oh shuks
[23:58] <rickspencer3> 2 minutes until Eastern Edition
[23:58] <TheMuso> heh
[23:59] <RAOF> tick, tick, tick... :)
[23:59]  * rickspencer3 gets IRC log onto woki
[23:59] <rickspencer3> the wiki too
[23:59] <rickspencer3> I haven't told you guys about the woki yet
[23:59] <rickspencer3> but it will be cool, and not at all a type