[07:18] <jjesse> Johnny-: I've had no problems with it
[07:18] <nikkia> not sure how i managed to type the exact opposite
[07:18] <chx> nikkia: you mean that Deb. and Ubuntu folks have recompiled _all_ stuff?
[07:18] <Riddell> I got scared by it, I still get c++ transition nightmares sometimes
[07:18] <nikkia> chx, i imagine so, it doesn't take long
[07:19] <nikkia> chx, i'm running LFS, it took me about 2 days to build the base OS, and another 3-4 to get KDE, et al, compiled
[07:19] <chx> nikkia: from what Riddell said, it does not sound like a garden party
[07:19] <nikkia> chx, packaging new packages necessarily involves recompiling them anyway
[07:19] <Johnny-> jjesse, good to know :)
[07:20] <nikkia> chx, for 99% of the apps on the OS, it probably isn't an issue at all, you just recompile
[07:20] <nikkia> chx, for that 1% that's where the mess is, if the compile fails because of a 4.0 change (and there are a few) then you have to patch it, or hope someone upstream already has
[07:20] <chx> Johnny-: several people in this channel said to me that breezy preview is already OK
[07:21] <Johnny-> chx, ok
[07:21] <nikkia> chx, the hardest part of such a transition is actually probably organising the contributors to rebuild their packages, debian has more contributors than ubuntu, thus it will take longer for them
[07:21] <chx> Johnny-: and quite frankly, just a month before release it needs to be nearly stable...
[07:21] <spiral> ohhhhwww.... kdm launches but it then falls back to console, & I don't see it again with kde 3.5beta1... am I the only one ?
[07:22] <Johnny-> Yep
[07:22] <nalioth> chx: it is if you remember it's goin thru major bugfixes atm
[07:24] <nikkia> chx, btw, in one sense an ABI transition can be a good thing
[07:24] <nikkia> chx, it gives you a good excuse to sort out the no-longer-responding contributors from the general pack
[07:25] <chx> oh yes
[07:26] <chx> I am a lead programmer of a much smaller project (Drupal CMS) and we learned that one of the good things in not keeping backwards compatibility is that non-maintained contributed modules will nicely not work :)
[07:27] <Riddell> spiral: check /var/log/kdm.log
[07:27] <godzero> I thought the 4.0 transistion would wind up pushing back breezy. A lot of unknowns when you switch ABIs
[07:27] <spiral> Riddell: looks like he lost the mouse ? :-P
[07:27] <Riddell> spiral: can you start X?
[07:28] <spiral> Riddell: it wants to use /dev/input/mice, & I don't have it ? :-P
[07:29] <Riddell> spiral: could be the broken udev
[07:29] <Riddell> what version of udev do you have?
[07:29] <spiral> Riddell: 0.060-1ubuntu13
[07:30] <rrichie> hi all
[07:30] <Riddell> spiral: that's the broken one, you want ubuntu14, try using the .gb mirror if it's not on your one
[07:31] <spiral> Riddell: all right, I'll check this, thanks
[07:31] <rrichie> i just installed kde 3.5beta 1 ubuntu packages but i don't have any more the bottom bar. Is there a command to make it appear?
[07:31] <Riddell> rrichie: kicker
[07:32] <rrichie> riddell : it says it is already running
[07:32] <toma> rrichie: did you restart kdm after updating?
[07:32] <rrichie> yes
[07:32] <chx> the wonders of the 'Net. The lead developer tells you off head that "you want ubuntu14". But of course. There are only a few thousand deb packages it's not a wonder he knows all versions.
[07:32] <rrichie> i reseted my computer
[07:33] <toma> rrichie: is it in your ps ?
[07:33] <Riddell> chx:  I got hit with the udev problem earlier today :)
[07:33] <othomas> hi all
[07:33] <Riddell> hello othomas
[07:33] <spiral> Riddell: this might explain why my sound didn't work without doing snddevices at boot
[07:33] <rrichie> ok i killed kicker but when i relaunch it the bar appear but disappear just after (seems it is outside the screen)
[07:33] <othomas> :)
[07:34] <toma> rrichie: which version of kicker is installed?
[07:35] <rrichie> 3.4.91
[07:35] <rrichie> do i need to delete my old kde settings ?
[07:35] <rrichie> (~/.kde) ?
[07:35] <chx> Riddell: but still, it's a warm and comfortable feeling to talk directly to someone who surely knows :)
[07:35] <toma> rrichie: no, but you could try with a new user to see if it is the problem
[07:36] <OculusAquilae> hi
[07:36] <Riddell> rrichie: can you cp ~/.kde/share/config/kickerrc somewhere, killall kicker, rm that rc file then start kicker again?
[07:36] <othomas> hi OculusAquilae
[07:36] <rrichie> ok let's try it
[07:37] <rrichie> YES
[07:38] <Riddell> rrichie: fixed?
[07:38] <rrichie> yes
[07:38] <rrichie> thank you very much for the help riddell
[07:38] <Riddell> rrichie: can you put that nasty kickerrc file on a web server somewhere so I could take a look at it
[07:39] <rrichie> euh
[07:39] <rrichie> where ?
[07:39] <Riddell> anywhere I can get it
[07:39] <Riddell> or e-mail to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[07:40] <rrichie> ok i'm mailing it
[07:40] <apokryphos> Riddell: pastebins are good =)
[07:40] <rrichie> can i upload a file on pastebin ?
[07:40] <apokryphos> rrichie: go to http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl  and paste it in there
[07:42] <rrichie> pasted in paste.ubuntulinux.nl
[07:43] <rrichie> http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/2417
[07:44] <rrichie> is it  ok ?
[07:44] <Riddell> rrichie: yep, seems to have worked
[07:44] <rrichie> good :)
[07:45] <rrichie> do you know if there will be the others kde 3.5b1 packages like kdenetwork ?
[07:45] <rrichie> for ubuntu i mean
[07:46] <Riddell> rrichie: you have AutoHidePanel=true
[07:46] <Riddell> that's why it was disappearing :)
[07:46] <toma> ;-)
[07:46] <rrichie> no because when i put my mouse cursor on bottom it didn't come back
[07:47] <Riddell> hmm, works fine for me
[07:47] <rrichie> baah everything is ok for now :)
[07:49] <rrichie> please will there be the rest of kde 3.5b1 packages for ubuntu ?
[07:50] <toma> Riddell told me earlier that probably will not happen
[07:50] <rrichie> arggg
[07:52] <buz> can anyone confirm or deny that breezy's kernel supports xfs?
[07:52] <Riddell> rrichie: upgrading to 3.5 I can confirm your problem
[07:53] <rrichie> ahhh :)
[07:54] <othomas> lol
[07:54] <toma> buz: grep -i xfs /boot/config-<kernel>
[07:54] <buz> well i guess it has xfs.
[07:55] <buz> xfs complains about the partition not being right but the old kernel boots just fine
[07:55] <mcp_dk> can anyone recommend at easy to use FTP client for Kubuntu with a graphical interface
[07:56] <toma> mcp_dk: konqueror?
[07:56] <othomas> mozilla?
[07:57] <buz> konqi ;)
[07:57] <buz> mozilla aint a real client, it only supports downloads afaik
[07:57] <buz> is there a video player with native support for kioslaves?
[07:58] <toma> buz: konqueror?
[07:58] <toma> just kidding
[07:58] <apokryphos> well, konqueror *can* embed videos :D
[07:59] <buz> yes
[07:59] <nalioth> kftpgrabber
[07:59] <buz> but it's not entirely useful for that ;)
[08:00] <mcp_dk> i need a client that will allow for uploads as well and that is good and stable. and preferrably also has a sitelist or something like that. Is konquror good as FTP client or does it simply also work as a FTP client ?
[08:00] <apokryphos> mcp_dk: it's great as an ftp client
[08:01] <apokryphos> mcp_dk: and, what would a sitelist do exactly?
[08:01] <toma> mcp_dk: it is good. you can easily split your screen to see a traditional ftp layout and you can make favorites.
[08:01] <buz> to konqi, ftp is just like any other kioslave it uses
[08:02] <buz> so basically the same as locally
[08:02] <apokryphos> well, if I'm using GUI
[08:04] <buz> mhh yeah fish and sftp are nice ;)
[08:05] <buz> mpf
[08:05] <buz> kat makes kded crash
[08:05] <nalioth> mcp_dk: kftpgrabber
[08:05] <apokryphos> I wonder if kbear is still being developed
[08:05] <buz> htf do i get rid of kat
[08:06] <apokryphos> buz: ctrl+alt+esc!
[08:06] <buz> mhh that ended up killing kicker as well
[08:07] <apokryphos> did you click on the kicker entry or something? :/
[08:07] <buz> might have done, thinking of it
[08:07] <buz> in blind rage ;)
[08:07] <apokryphos> still, I thought that was only ever set to kill one app/window, weird.
[08:07] <apokryphos> hehe
[08:08] <Riddell> rrichEating: http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=113022
[08:08] <buz> mhh not giving kat anything to index helps ;)
[08:08] <buz> it was in fact kat killing kded ;)
[08:09] <apokryphos> kat's seemed really slow for me; might have to change options
[08:09] <apokryphos> Ubuntu is actually the first distro I've had where the conventional gui find doesn't crash on opening
[08:09] <buz> it seems pretty useless
[08:09] <buz> at least until it get spotlight like integration
[08:10] <buz> is kde 3.5 featurefrozen?
[08:10] <Riddell> buz: it is
[08:10] <jjesse> if i want to download the daily kubuntu build where do i go?
[08:10] <buz> too bad
[08:10] <apokryphos> locate/find/greps generally do the job for me. But a GUI find is useful for seeing-and-dragging
[08:10] <buz> the pop up on the pager is really neat
[08:10] <Riddell> buz: but the kat GUI is a throwaway
[08:10] <apokryphos> jjesse: cdimage.ubuntu.com
[08:10] <buz> even neater would be the ability to click on individual apps ;)
[08:10] <Riddell> jjesse: don't use todays
[08:11] <Riddell> jjesse: today's CD build is boken
[08:11] <jjesse> Riddell: ok i won't
[08:11] <Riddell> jjesse: yesterday's was fine (but doesn't come with adept)
[08:11] <jjesse> Riddell: that's what i wanted, see my email to you
[08:12] <jjesse> Riddell: if i just do an apt-get update apt-get dist-upgrade does it update it to include apdet then or should i want for another day?
[08:12] <buz> now if i could figure out what's wrong with my kernel...
[08:13] <Riddell> jjesse: yes in theory it should
[08:13] <Riddell> although I just did that from hoary and it doesn't seem to have brought it in.. wonder why
[08:13] <jjesse> Riddell: grin i guess the only way tto know is try it ?
[08:13] <Riddell> apt-get install kubuntu-desktop  does
[08:14] <apokryphos> jjesse: did you not have kubuntu-desktop before dist-upgrading?
[08:14] <jjesse> apokryphos: i installed from the preview cd and it didn't include adept
[08:14] <jjesse> so is the best way just to update or install it?
[08:15] <buz> there might be something wrong with the postfix deb
[08:15] <buz> it tries to start postfix without stopping it first?
[08:15] <apokryphos> jjesse: it wasn't in back then, as far as I know; if you had k-d (before upgrading) though it should bring adept in anyway
[08:16] <jjesse> checking
[08:16] <buz> wow adept is neat
[08:16] <buz> somewhat unconventional gui though
[08:18] <apokryphos> buz: good way of putting it; I just said it reminded me a little of html frames :P
[08:18] <pc22> any here can play with ragnarok under ubuntu?
[08:19] <buz> mhh well the upper part is uhm special
[08:20] <buz> especially those weird blue arrows
[08:20] <buz> i understand what they're for
[08:20] <buz> but good ui design it aint
[08:20] <apokryphos> buz: you should let mornfall know what you think :)
[08:20] <buz> mhh i'm no usability whiz
[08:21] <jjesse> i like this version a ton better then the alpha release of it
[08:21] <buz> mhh amarok 1.3 wants to rescan my collection? will me nice settings be gone?
[08:21] <buz> (maybe it wont crash all 3 tracks, if so, i'm happy ;)
[08:22] <apokryphos> I think I preferred the design of the alpha, but not all the features of it.
[08:24] <buz> maybe if my screen wasnt 1600*1200 i had actually use for the arrows in adept ;)
[08:25] <mornfall> buz: some people have either small screens or like to keep more space for the package list etc... that's why the filters are collapsible
[08:26] <buz> it just looks... unconventional
[08:26] <mornfall> buz: i don't think it complicates their use as far as you ignore the arrows
[08:26] <buz> that's true
[08:26] <buz> the fact that you cant sort by attributes is more irritating
[08:26] <mornfall> hmm, sort by attributes?
[08:26] <mornfall> (sorting is completely not implemented atm, so that may be why :-))
[08:27] <buz> yeah say packages, installed.... by clicking column header ;)
[08:27] <mornfall> well, that's not very useful is it?
[08:27] <mornfall> maybe give an use-case :-)
[08:27] <buz> well it's helpful if you know that something is installed
[08:28] <buz> or not installed (say with a lot of *openoffice* packages)
[08:28] <buz> oh and it reliably crashes when i try to install mozilla-mplayer
[08:28] <mornfall> there's the status filter for that
[08:28] <mornfall> buz: broken packages?
[08:28] <buz> mhh dunno
[08:28] <buz> doesnt even start it seems
[08:28] <mornfall> buz: SIGABRT?
[08:28] <buz> let's see what apt-get says
[08:29] <buz> yeah apt says thepackage is broken
[08:29] <buz> it cant find mplayer itself
[08:29] <buz> which is kinda weird
[08:29] <mornfall> i need to fix this broken packages snafu
[08:30] <buz> yeah it might scare people ;)
[08:31] <buz> but otherwise its above and beyond kynaptic and even beats synaptic
[08:31] <buz> kudos
[08:32] <mornfall> yay :-)
[08:34] <buz> now if i could figure out how to use katapult
[08:35] <apokryphos> !katapult
[08:35] <ubotu> Katapult is an application for KDE designed to provide faster access to applications, bookmarks and other items. Once you've installed it, alt+f2 ->katapult, then hit Alt+Space.
[08:36] <rrichie> has anyone tried kopete from svn ?
[08:36] <buz> mhh katapult is kinda daft
[08:36] <buz> doesnt seem to want to use urls
[08:38] <apokryphos> buz: good for bookmarks
[08:38] <buz> i dont use bookmarks in konqi
[08:38] <buz> i think ill stick to the run applet then
[08:42] <buz> is there any chance to see firefox 1.5 in breezy?
[08:42] <mornfall> buz: upstream version freeze
[08:43] <buz> by means of supplementary repo like for kde maybe?
[08:43] <mornfall> that's a different story
[08:44] <buz> especially because firefox is pretty much self contained anyhow
[08:44] <mornfall> hmh?
[08:44] <buz> well instead of simply upgrading to the latest version, patches were backported to 1.0.2 for a while
[08:45] <mornfall> buz: right, because only bugfixes are allowed -- since they have much smaller risk for regressions
[08:45] <mornfall> pretty logical :)
[08:45] <buz> not so sure about that. backporting a bugfix would seem more risk than using an approved vendor release
[08:46] <buz> (which they eventually did with 1.0.6 ;)
[08:53] <zAo^> anyone useing kde 3.5 beta?
[08:53] <buz> yes
[08:53] <buz> works fine
[08:53] <buz> so far anyway
[08:53] <zAo^> any new features?
[08:54] <buz> found some ui tweaks
[08:54] <zAo^> thats all? :$
[08:54] <rrichie> yes
[08:54] <buz> like pager displaying icons of the stuff
[08:55] <mornfall> buz: that's been there for ages, just probably not default
[08:55] <buz> mhh
[08:55] <buz> tweaks to default settings then ;)
[08:58] <spiral> does anyone here know wether kde 3.5beta1 apps will also make it to the kde 3.5beta1 repository ?
[08:58] <toma> Riddell told me earlier that probably will not happen
[08:58] <spiral> toma: sgnifff
[09:00] <buz> yeah amarok has played 5 tracks without crash
[09:00] <buz> new record *EG*
[09:09] <godzero> breezy: celestia has no icon, and segfaults, stellaruim runs great, but no icon again
[09:09] <godzero> I gotta start a list
[09:11] <jjesse> installing a new copy of kubuntu preview shouldn't it say Kubuntu configuration instead of Ubuntu Configuration
[09:16] <jjesse> and the start up splash screen shouldn't that be Kubuntu instead of ubuntu?
[09:17] <nalioth> jjesse: breezy is under heavy developement
[09:17] <buz> mhh heavy is wrong if there's already upstream freeze
[09:17] <buz> it's under intense bug fixing ;)
[09:17] <rrichie> when i click on Devices in configuration in kopete in kde3.5 it crashed saying :unable to resolve GL/GLX symbols - please check your GL library installation.
[09:17] <jjesse> nalioth: i understand that
[09:20] <godzero> Is kde 3.5 using gl tweeks?
[09:20] <rrichie> don't know but it seems it does
[09:22] <buz> i think it uses plain xorg
[09:22] <buz> cause i dont have gl configured ;)
[09:23] <buz> let's see
[09:23] <rrichie> buz : what version are you using ?
[09:23] <buz> 3.5b1
[09:23] <rrichie> like me great :)
[09:23] <buz> but kopete has no devices??
[09:23] <rrichie> does it work for you ?
[09:24] <rrichie> buz ?
[09:24] <buz> what
[09:25] <rrichie> does click on the device menu make kopete crash ?
[09:26] <buz> where0s that menu??
[09:28] <rrichie> in configuration
[09:28] <krawek> hi
[09:29] <buz> cant find it
[09:29] <rrichie> ??
[09:29] <_StarScream> anyone here have an ibook?
[09:29] <krawek> I have problems with sound in breezy
[09:30] <_StarScream> krawek: you may need to be more helpful in your description
[09:31] <krawek> I does't have sound but the drivers are loaded
[09:31] <krawek> I update to breezy (yesterday)
[09:32] <_StarScream> krawek: and it was working before breezy
[09:32] <krawek> I don't know...
[09:32] <_StarScream> is your card supported under linux?
[09:32] <buz> _StarScream: yes but i run osx on it
[09:33] <krawek> yes, in hoary works...
[09:33] <krawek> the chipset is VIA
[09:33] <_StarScream> krawek: well thats what i was asking before!  Anyway, breezy isn't stable yet.
[09:33] <buz> krawek: what board
[09:33] <_StarScream> might be worth seeing if there is a known problem
[09:34] <krawek> buz: asus
[09:34] <buz> which one
[09:34] <_StarScream> buz: k thanks but i was looking for someone running linux of some description on it
[09:34] <buz> i got a asus k8v se which works fine on breezy
[09:34] <_StarScream> buz: trying to speed up the graphics
[09:34] <buz> that could be hard
[09:34] <buz> i dont think theres binary ati drivers for ppc
[09:34] <krawek> ?8v-deluxe
[09:35] <buz> is it socket939 oder 754?
[09:35] <krawek> 939
[09:35] <buz> that's the a8v
[09:35] <buz> i had that until i killed it
[09:35] <buz> worked under hoary
[09:35] <buz> cant tell about breezy
[09:35] <buz> i think it got realtek sound on it, though
[09:35] <_StarScream> buz: yeh i realise that. Just not sure why i can run tuxracer without lag but switching desktops is fairly latent
[09:35] <buz> that is kinda weird, yes
[09:37] <krawek> ok
[09:42] <Timmmm> Hi, how can I make kubuntu *not* load the prism54 module ever. It conflicts with ndiswrapper. On Gentoo I think there was an /etc/modules.ignore file or something but debian/kubuntu doesn't seem to have that.
[09:43] <Timmmm> Question mark.
[09:44] <morrow> Timmmm: echo "prism54" > /etc/hotplug/blacklist.d/prism
[09:44] <Juerd> Timmmm: Remove it from /etc/modules and add it to /etc/hotplug/blacklist
[09:44] <Juerd> .d, right
[09:44] <Timmmm> Ahh cool. Thanks
[09:44] <Juerd> That new modular stuff still isn't reaching my brain.
[09:44] <Juerd> Everything's .d nowadays.
[09:44] <morrow> /nick morrow.d :-)
[09:45] <Juerd> Juer.d :)
[09:45] <Timmmm> Yeah crazy linux. Removes the useful file extensions and adds crazy pointless directory extensions.
[09:45] <Juerd> Instead of changing package management to deal with portions of text files, the system is changed to deal with the package managers
[09:46] <Timmmm> I blame lack of C++
[09:46] <Juerd> I really do miss the good old
[09:46] <Juerd> # DO NOT EDIT BELOW THIS LINE
[09:46] <Juerd> # YOU CAN EDIT THINGS BELOW THIS LINE AGAIN
[09:46] <Timmmm> And too much bash/sh/awk/sed/perl/etc
[09:46] <Timmmm> heh
[09:46] <Juerd> That in fact you weren't supposed to edit either, although it usually didn't mention that.
[09:46] <toma> booting breezy now, fingers crossed.
[09:47] <Juerd> toma: Don't cross fingers. It makes typing hard.
[09:50] <chx> I have a serious problem
[09:51] <chx> ls -l /usr/lib
[09:51] <chx> total 0
[09:51] <libben> how can i list what is loaded ?
[09:51] <chx> i can't even run apt to fix
[09:51] <libben> daemons
[09:58] <chx> Help!     Now I will need to reinstall OS that's fine how could I that so that my settings are not touched?
[10:04] <rikva|laptop> Hi all, I'm completely confused. I want to install w32codecs on Hoary, and I activated universe and multiverse but I can't find the package. I copied the sources.list from my desktop PC (that can find w32codecs) en reloaded, but I still can't find it. Any suggestions?
[10:04] <Riddell> chx: if your /home is on a different partition just reinstall and set that partition to be /home without formatting it
[10:05] <rafa> I use kubuntu, and I have problems with those windows where is an "administrators mode" button
[10:05] <libben> rafa its a known bug
[10:05] <rafa> ok
[10:05] <libben> think u can use
[10:05] <libben> alt + F2
[10:05] <libben> and type kdesu kcontrol
[10:05] <rafa> ok
[10:05] <rafa> thanks
[10:05] <chx> Riddell: KDE settings are only saved under /home ?
[10:05] <libben> think ull get to a menu where u can controll things
[10:06] <rafa> do you know if it will be fixed for the next release of kde ?? or it is a kubuntu problem?
[10:06] <chx> Riddell: and yes, i only fucked up / but not /home .
[10:06] <libben> rafa: its a breezy problem
[10:06] <rafa> ok, thanks libben
[10:07] <libben> the problem is gonna be gone in the final breezy
[10:07] <libben> I wanna remove useless daemons, like hprinting services... i dont have a printer. how do i remove them? and list what i have loaded
[10:07] <apokryphos> chx: specific user configurations are in /home only, yes.
[10:08] <rafa> libben you can use ksysV
[10:08] <chx> apokryphos: huh, that's a bit cryptic. What I am going to loose? :(
[10:08] <rikva|laptop> I also can't find w32codecs on packages.ubuntu.com -- is it gone?
[10:08] <Riddell> chx: kde settings are saved in ~/.kde yes
[10:09] <rafa> rikva, it is only to make sure, but did you do apt-get update after adding universe and multiverse ?
[10:09] <toma> how do i activate that nice graphical boot thingie of breezy?
[10:09] <apokryphos> chx: if you borked your /? A lot of stuff, but your kde specifics (mail, icon sets, backgrounds, shortcut commands, specific configs to apps etc) you'll have
[10:10] <rikva|laptop> rafa: yes i did
[10:10] <chx> apokryphos: huh, that's reassuring. I think I'll save my modeline from X, too :)
[10:12] <rafa> rikva: apt-cache search w32codecs    tell something ?
[10:13] <rikva|laptop> rafa: tried that, can't find anything.
[10:13] <libben> isnt it in extras ?
[10:13] <rikva|laptop> I also activated extras
[10:14] <rikva|laptop> The weird thing is, I'm using the exact same sources file as my desktop PC, with w32codecs (installed a while ago)
[10:14] <libben> rikva|laptop: is it a breezy?
[10:14] <chx> next time I will put /var on a separate partition too
[10:14] <rikva|laptop> libben: nope, both hoary
[10:15] <libben> k
[10:15] <chx> my poor mysql databases :(
[10:15] <toma> |usplash
[10:15] <libben> and u have made a apt-get update
[10:15] <libben> and then a apt-cache search
[10:15] <rikva|laptop> yes
[10:15] <rikva|laptop> yes
[10:15] <libben> beats me then
[10:15] <libben> install it from a deb file then?
[10:16] <rafa> rikva
[10:16] <rikva|laptop> http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_packages.pl?keywords=w32codecs&searchon=names&subword=1&version=hoary&release=all
[10:16] <chx> could someone please send me (email or dcc) some magical binary with which I can burn a CD ?
[10:16] <apokryphos> toma: you mean the ugly dark one? ;-)
[10:16] <toma> apokryphos: no that brown one?
[10:17] <apokryphos> toma: sudo dpkg-reconfigure linux-image$(uname -r)
[10:17] <apokryphos> yeah
[10:17] <chx> please...
[10:17] <libben> I wanna remove useless daemons, like hprinting services... i dont have a printer. how do i remove them? and list what i have loaded
[10:17] <toma> apokryphos: thanks
[10:17] <apokryphos> toma: er, extra hyphen after the image
[10:17] <chx> I only have a Warty live CD at hand
[10:18] <chx> downloaded the Breezy preview ISO
[10:18] <chx> but now what..
[10:18] <rafa> rikva: here is another repository with w32codecs http://nozell.com/blog/taxonomy/categories/linux/ubuntu/
[10:18] <rikva|laptop> rafa: I see, thanks
[10:19] <chx> I think I need a static linked cdrdao. Please, please, pretty please!
[10:19] <rikva|laptop> "You have searched for w32codecs in packages names and descriptions in all distributions, all sections, and all architectures (including subword matching)." Can't find that string.
[10:19] <rikva|laptop> so it's not in my computer ^
[10:20] <libben> I wanna remove useless daemons, like hprinting services... i dont have a printer. how do i remove them? and list what i have loaded
[10:21] <chx> libben: /etc/rc2.d/
[10:24] <libben> k
[10:24] <libben> and then?
[10:24] <libben> hmm
[10:24] <adrianoc> please, i dont make ... mount -t vfat //<IP_ADDRESS>/Pub /media/pub, what of it has made a mistake ?
[10:25] <chx> libben: remvoe those links you do not need
[10:26] <toma> apokryphos: hmm, somthing more sophisticated is needed I guess, but i can live with this, not really important
[10:26] <rafa> rikva: the repository on that link dosen't work for me
[10:26] <apokryphos> toma: I don't like it much. Looks like an embedded terminal
[10:26] <apokryphos> (with different colours)
[10:26] <rafa> but googling a little more .... http://wiki.arslinux.com/Ubuntu , and yes, this contains w32codecs
[10:26] <apokryphos> rafa: you've been looking for w32codecs?
[10:26] <rafa> yes
[10:27] <apokryphos> I have the link for it :)
[10:27] <toma> apokryphos: ah yes, true, but having to see the same textt over and over again, is not really sexy wither
[10:27] <rikva|laptop> fyi, i'm not the only one with this prob. http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=66693
[10:27] <apokryphos> rafa: for hoary, giannaros.org/public/hoarydebs
[10:27] <toma> either
[10:27] <m2evorah> Ok nice
[10:27] <rafa> thanks apokryphos
[10:28] <libben> chx: well, cant see hpprinting services in there
[10:28] <libben> is rc2.d the right place ?
[10:28] <rafa> liben, i have done alt+f2 and then kdesu kcontrol, but it doesn't activate the panels (administrators mode)
[10:28] <libben> rafa: when u do it it will pop up and ask for ur user password
[10:28] <libben> and get u to a control program
[10:29] <libben> where ur supposed to be SU in .
[10:29] <rafa> yes, liben, rc2.d is where all the links to the  demons for runlevel 2 are
[10:29] <libben> what are runlevel 2 ?
[10:29] <rafa> liben, yes I am asked for passwd
[10:30] <rafa> libben, in unix systems there are several runlevel, they are differents "configurations", (please don't kill me for this "definition" :) )
[10:31] <libben> well, it was a simple and good explenation
[10:31] <libben> ur excused =)
[10:31] <rafa> in kunbunt the default one is 2, runlevel 0 is usually single  user mode, and 6 is for shutting down
[10:31] <libben> so runlevel is the normal one ? when booted
[10:31] <libben> so if i wanted to shutdown the box
[10:31] <libben> i could enter start rc6.d
[10:31] <libben> =)
[10:32] <libben> the S20hotkey-setup i can remove? i dont have a laptop here
[10:32] <libben> S20pcmcia i can remove, still no laptop here.
[10:33] <rafa> yes you can delete that link
[10:34] <libben> those 2 u mean
[10:34] <rafa> yes
[10:34] <libben> but i cant see where the hpprinting service is.
[10:34] <libben> grrr
[10:34] <libben> by the way, if i just rm -rf those 2 files.
[10:34] <libben> is that a proper way of doing it?
[10:34] <rafa> how do you know that you have hpprinting ?
[10:34] <rafa> rm is the way
[10:35] <libben> cause when ubuntu starts it tells me in that fancy boot loading that hpprinting is loaded
[10:35] <libben> and when i saw that i figured i wanted rid of it.
[10:35] <rafa> perhaps it is in cups
[10:35] <libben> cause i dont use printer
[10:35] <libben> whats cups then
[10:36] <rafa> cups is something like common unix printing service
[10:36] <libben> but before we go deep into that, its ok just rm the two files, and its a proper way of doing it.
[10:36] <rafa> libben, just rm the links (they are not files)
[10:37] <rafa> you could use unlink too, but it is up to you
[10:37] <libben> tell me the unlink way also
[10:37] <libben> knew the rm way was the lazy way
[10:37] <libben> wanna do the proper way
[10:37] <rafa> sudo unlink name_of_the_link
[10:38] <libben> and when i do that, it will be gone from the folder ?
[10:38] <libben> cause its just a link in that folder
[10:38] <libben> and not really a file.
[10:38] <libben> well, its a file created by link
[10:38] <libben> ?
[10:38] <rafa> well I think it is a way of doing it, I don't think one is more proper than another
[10:39] <rafa> in unix almost everything is a file, you see the link as a file
[10:39] <rafa> but it is a link
[10:40] <rafa> when you rm it (or unlink) it will desapear from the directory but not the file that it points to
[10:40] <libben> what more can i remove in that folder
[10:40] <rafa> what do you have ?
[10:40] <libben> synaptic will take care about that later =)
[10:41] <libben> http://pastebin.com/370333
[10:41] <libben> thats my ls of rc2.d
[10:41] <libben> my pc is just a p4 1.7 ghz. 5 years old.
[10:41] <rafa> I don't know if synaptic is aware of the changes in runlevels dirs
[10:42] <libben> i was more thinking of uninstalling the hotkeysoftware also.
[10:42] <libben> after ive unlinked it
[10:42] <libben> like hotkey-setup for instance.
[10:42] <libben> its installed
[10:43] <libben> and after ive unlinked it, i can also uninstall it.
[10:43] <rafa> yes you can remove that too
[10:43] <rafa> I think that hprinting is S19hplip
[10:43] <rafa> if you don't use modem you can remove S14ppp
[10:43] <libben> just use nic's for my internet
[10:44] <libben> no modem here.
[10:44] <rafa> other one is S19cupsys this one is for cups
[10:44] <libben> hmm
[10:45] <libben> why not just complete removal in synaptic on hpprinting packages ?
[10:45] <rafa> one thing, what we are doing du estart this runlevelosen't uninstall or remove the daemons only it won't load the next time yo
[10:45] <libben> it should unlink it too
[10:45] <rafa> yes, but I don't know in which package is hpprinting
[10:45] <rafa> :D
[10:46] <libben> hplip-ppds
[10:46] <libben> for starter
[10:46] <libben> i only searched for "printing"
[10:46] <libben> and found som HP things
[10:46] <libben> that all points to be printing daemons etc etc.
[10:47] <rafa> if you don't need them remove them
[10:47] <libben> kdeprint i can leave. cause of kde sake, but all that has HP in its name, i will uninstall completly
[10:47] <libben> well, this box wont get a printer .
[10:47] <libben> has it been without one in 5 years.
[10:47] <libben> ill think it wont be bothered with one later anyway
[10:47] <`Nomad> I have a good one..   I need to find a dial-up router (physical, not a PC). :)  Any idea?
[10:49] <rafa> no ideas nomad, may be use an old pc as a router
[10:50] <`Nomad> it's my thought too, but I have to leave it behind and they're very non-technical..  I wouldn't want to have to come back down here to reboot anything :)
[10:50] <`Nomad> still.. That's probably the best bet.  No HD, just a floppy or CD like Freesco
[10:51] <rafa> nomad, there are many linux distros to do routing and fix in a floppy
[10:51] <libben> rafa: i should be good with removing all that has with printing to do.
[10:51] <rafa> it souldn't be difficult to find one for you
[10:51] <libben> use knoppix =)
[10:52] <libben> is cups crucial to the system? its ok to remove all that printing software?
[10:54] <`Nomad> thanks.. that's what I think I'll end up doing.. a physical router that does that is probably too expensive for them too
[10:55] <rafa> and old 386 would be enough, nomad
[10:56] <rafa> I think you can remove all the printing software without problems
[10:58] <rafa> libben, where I can find more info about the administrators button bug ???
[10:59] <chx> i need to fool tar to chmod , that's --mode , but neither tar --mode 700 cf nor tar cf --mode 700 owrks
[11:01] <rafa> well, I must leave
[11:01] <rafa> see you
[11:02] <chx> what's bus,id,lun for hdc?
[11:04] <chx> oh. scandev. nice cdrdao!
[11:14] <PiRX[lv] > i need prog to create image from web page (complete). Any suggestions?
[11:19] <godzero> would pdf work, or do you want a png....
[11:35] <spiral> hmmm, just a notice : amarok 1.3.2 out... :-P
[11:36] <libben> amarok or kaffeine
[11:37] <spiral> libben: amaroK
[11:37] <libben> amarok only plays music right?
[11:37] <libben> or does it do video also?
[11:37] <spiral> libben: music only
[11:38] <libben> k
[11:38] <libben> then i dont need to stress it
[11:38] <libben> just listen to shoutcasts servers anyway, and thats thru my xbox with xbmc
[11:49] <othernoob> could a firmware update of a dvd burner done in windows cause speed problems in linux?
[11:52] <MrFaber> Has anyone problems with the new breezy update?
[11:53] <bazan>  Hi my cups is down
[11:53] <bazan> i mean i can't view the admin web page
[11:53] <bazan> I'm under hoary is this a known issue?
[11:58] <MrFaber> cu all


[00:03] <blr> Noticed when creating a new charm with the python template, charmhelpers are installed via pypi. Does that obviate the need for charm_helpers_sync and charm-helpers.yaml?
[00:19] <lazyPower> sebas538_: want to see something cool?
[01:31] <designated> According to: http://www.percona.com/doc/percona-xtradb-cluster/5.5/installation.html, percona-xtradb-cluster 5.5 does not work with app armor, yet there is an app armor profile created when deploying percona-cluster charm.  Could this possibly be the reason why my cluster is not coming up?
[01:34] <lazyPower> designated: its doubtful thats a core openstack-charmers charm
[01:39] <sarnold> designated: check for DENIED lines in the logs
[01:53] <designated> sarnold: which logs specifically?
[01:54] <sarnold> designated: /var/log/syslog or /var/log/audit/audit.log (if auditd is installed)
[01:55] <designated> also it doesn't matter what I configure ha-bindiface with, it still seems to use the addresses from a different interface when configuring wsrep_cluster_address=gcomm:// in my.cnf
[01:58] <designated> sarnold: auditd isn't running and there are no DENIED messages anywhere in /va/log/syslog
[01:58] <sarnold> designated: okay, then it's not apparmor's fault :)
[01:59] <LinstatSDR> Evening everyone.
[02:01] <designated> can anyone confirm whether the configuration of "ha-bindiface" within the charm is in any way associated with what's supposed to get configured for wsrep_cluster_address in my.cnf?
[02:02] <designated> the charm seems to be configuring wsrep_cluster_address with the addresses resolved from the hostnames, which may be a problem with the multicast requirement.
[02:05] <designated> also, should corosync_bindiface under the hacluster charm match the vip_iface for the percona-cluster charm?
[02:05] <designated> i need more documentation.
[02:08] <LinstatSDR> https://bugs.launchpad.net/charms/+bug/1245095 ???
[02:08] <mup> Bug #1245095: rabbitmq-server charm ha-bindiface default breaks rabbitmq-hacluster subordinate charm <openstack> <Juju Charms Collection:Opinion> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1245095>
[02:08] <LinstatSDR> Maybe or not maybe?
[02:13] <designated> LinstatSDR: possibly, I'll look into that.
[02:15] <LinstatSDR> Okay. Sorry I cannot help you designated.
[07:26] <marcoceppi> .
[10:17] <mwak> hi
[10:55] <marcoceppi> hi mwak o/
[10:56] <mwak> how are you marcoceppi ?
[10:56] <marcoceppi> good, an you?
[10:58] <mwak> good
[10:58] <mwak> looking to have snappy on online labs
[13:48] <schkovich> jcastro: im going to have a conferece call with rackspace enterpise account lead on using juju for deployment on rackspace cloud. im wondering if there is any progress on that topic?
[13:49] <schkovich> jcastro: im referring to question and information you provided on askubuntu http://askubuntu.com/questions/166102/how-do-i-configure-juju-for-deployment-on-rackspace-cloud
[13:56] <marcoceppi> schkovich: Rackspaces API is still too far off trunk AFAIK
[13:56] <schkovich> marcoceppi: they are suggesting using heat instead of juju
[13:57] <schkovich> however in my understanding those are different tools
[13:57] <marcoceppi> schkovich: I'm sure they are, and it is a bit different. Heat is openstack specific for starters, it's more like cloud formations for amazon
[13:57] <schkovich> and i don't like to be pushed ;)
[13:57] <marcoceppi> there's a bit of overlap, sure, but that's because we're both operating in the orchestration name space
[13:58] <cjohnston> Is it possible to change the timestamp in Juju logs from UTC to the TZ used by the machine?
[13:59] <schkovich> yeah, there is overlap no doubt
[14:00] <schkovich> what i will try to find later today is if rackspace private cloud would play nicely with juju
[14:00] <schkovich> otherwise i will have no other option but to persue my company to move to ubuntu cloud ;)
[14:00] <rbasak> wallyworld: I'm not really convinced that https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/1323 really fixes the problem.
[14:01] <rbasak> wallyworld: the code still assumes that the ubuntu user uses /home/ubuntu, for example. It should use ~ubuntu, etc.
[14:01] <rbasak> wallyworld: and IIRC, the original issue is that the "ubuntu user" in a local environment means something completely different. It should be ignored completely in the local environment case.
[14:02] <wallyworld> rbasak: if fixes the issue of determining if the ubuntu user exists before doing a chown. in the master branch "id ubuntu" is used instead of grepping the passwd file. but i see that ~ubuntu is better than /home/ubuntu
[14:03] <rbasak> wallyworld: it should not be attempting to do a chown on anything in ~ubuntu (or /home/ubuntu) whether or not the ubuntu user exists, when in a local environment.
[14:03] <rbasak> In a local environment, the "ubuntu" user is not special. It's just another user.
[14:03] <rbasak> OTOH, in a cloud environment, the "ubuntu" user definitely is special and it's fine for Juju to use/clobber it.
[14:04] <rbasak> wallyworld: you're just swapping one failure case for another here.
[14:04] <wallyworld> i see, that does make sense. it may not be trivial to implement
[14:04] <rbasak> wallyworld: now, if I add "adduser ubuntu" on my laptop, but try a local environment from my "rbasak" user, it'll still fail.
[14:05] <wallyworld> that's sort of an edge case you think?
[14:05] <wallyworld> ie i would prefer not to block 1.21
[14:05] <rbasak> I think it's probably more common that you expect.
[14:05] <wallyworld> we can fix for 1.22
[14:05] <rbasak> For example, when running the installer for a desktop system, I might just type "ubuntu/ubuntu" to get started. I used to do that, actually.
[14:05] <rbasak> The failure case that caused people to hit this bug seems to be similar.
[14:05] <marcoceppi> schkovich: you could still use RackSpace, you'd just have to write some code around juju to talk to their API
[14:06] <marcoceppi> but that's a bit of extra work
[14:06] <rbasak> wallyworld: sure, I'm not asking you to block anything. Just please consider that patch to be a workaround that swaps one failure case for another, and not a proper fix.
[14:06] <schkovich> wallyworld: sorry to pop into conversation but perhaps uid=$(id -u ${jetty_user}) could be more suitable then to grep the passwd file
[14:06] <wallyworld> rbasak: given 1.21 is already really late, we will definitely fix properly for 1.22
[14:06] <rbasak> The standard way is "getent passwd <user>"
[14:07] <rbasak> That's quite common in maintainer scripts.
[14:07] <schkovich> marcoceppi: im using manual environment for the moment which is working
[14:07] <wallyworld> in master, i use "id ubuntu", but can change to getent
[14:07] <rbasak> I don't see an actual grep in the password file though.
[14:07] <rbasak> id should be no worse I think.
[14:07] <marcoceppi> schkovich: right, so you could build around that, there's examples of this with DigitalOcean and Online-Labs
[14:08] <marcoceppi> schkovich: https://github.com/kapilt/juju-digitalocean
[14:08] <wallyworld> schkovich: yeah, the grep passwd file is a bit hacky
[14:08] <wallyworld> rbasak: so to summarise, no chown for local provider
[14:08] <marcoceppi> schkovich: I mean, it's more work but it's possible to build on top of juju for stuff not directly supported in juju yet
[14:09] <rbasak> wallyworld: for now, that's fine. In the long term, don't touch the ubuntu user or ~ubuntu at all in the local provider.
[14:09] <schkovich> marcoceppi: i will take a look into that
[14:10] <wallyworld> rbasak: ok, will do. what will ship in 1.21 is that the chown will still be done, but based on the ubuntu user existing, not a /home/ubuntu check. agreed that's sub optimal as you say
[14:10] <rbasak> wallyworld: ack. Thank you for working on this!
[14:10] <wallyworld> will fix properly in 1.22
[14:10] <schkovich> marcoceppi: unfortunately there is a preasure to get things done :(
[14:10] <wallyworld> np, sorry for not getting it right first up
[14:10] <wallyworld> it was a last minute fix based on comments isw in the bug
[14:10] <marcoceppi> schkovich: that's understandable, I may take a look at this over the holiday break myself, but I don't ahve a rackspace account atm
[14:12] <schkovich> marcoceppi: i can't give u access to the company account but sounds as interesting project on which i could work in my free time
[14:13] <marcoceppi> schkovich: oh, I wouldn't need/want access. I'd just open an account. Simply stating it would be a learning curve
[14:14] <schkovich> marcoceppi: if i do please contact me, i would luv to get involved
[14:15] <schkovich> marcoceppi: same applies other way around, if i start working on rackspace plugin i will contact you :)
[14:15] <marcoceppi> schkovich: awesome, I'm always in here, feel free to give me a ping
[14:16] <schkovich> marcoceppi: i will, since im not regular here u can google me by nick
[14:19] <jcastro> you could do the manual provider with rackspace
[14:19] <jcastro> but then again, it's manual and that takes away like half the reason
[14:19] <schkovich> jcastro: i already did that :)
[14:20] <schkovich> jcastro: and i agreed with marcoceppi that it would be nice to have rackspace plugin
[14:21] <schkovich> jcastro: we might start the project over comming holidays
[14:22] <schkovich> jcastro: i will try to get as much information as possible later today while on call with rackspace guys
[14:22] <schkovich> jcastro: information on rackspace api of course :)
[14:24] <schkovich> brb
[14:24] <jcastro> if you need help the core guys are in #juju-dev
[14:37] <schkovich> jcastro: thank you for the tip :)
[15:49] <LinstatSDR> Morning guys.
[15:57] <marcoceppi> o/ LinstatSDR
[15:57] <LinstatSDR> hi :)
[17:54] <lazyPower> mwenning: ping
[17:55] <mwenning> lazypower, pong
[17:56] <mwenning> lazyPower, pong
[17:59] <lazyPower> ahoy mwenning, are you still working on teh dell openmanage charm?
[18:01] <mwenning> lazyPower, I've been tied up with other stuff.  When I get a chance to try it, juju usually foils my attempts :-(
[18:01] <lazyPower> aisrael: ^
[18:01] <lazyPower> thanks mwenning, was just circling back as we came across teh bug during triage
[18:02] <aisrael> mwenning: Would it be okay to assign the open MP to you in Launchpad?
[18:02] <aisrael> mwenning: if so, what's your lp name?
[18:03] <mwenning> lazyPower, understand.  I'm not happy about it, but Dell certs and bugs are 1st priority.
[18:03] <mwenning> mwenning
[18:03] <mwenning> MP?
[18:03] <lazyPower> mwenning: judgement free zone here, i completely understand priorities :)
[18:04] <mwenning> lazyPower, 1) what is MP , 2) any progress on the amulet bug?
[18:04] <lazyPower> 1) Merge Proposal - but i think aisrael meant bug.
[18:04] <lazyPower> 2) i dontrecall teh bug - can you refresh me?
[18:05] <aisrael> mwenning: lazyPower: Yes, sorry. https://bugs.launchpad.net/charms/+bug/1325700
[18:05] <mup> Bug #1325700: New Charm: Dell OpenManage Server Administrator (OMSA) <Juju Charms Collection:In Progress> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1325700>
[18:06] <mwenning> lazyPower, https://bugs.launchpad.net/amulet/+bug/1375344
[18:07] <mup> Bug #1375344: Amulet fails to bring up a machine to run relation-sentry running openmanage charm <Amulet:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1375344>
[18:07] <lazyPower> mwenning: id say so! amulet no longer uses relation sentries.
[18:07] <lazyPower> tvansteenburgh: we need to do a triage on teh launchpad bugs for amulet
[18:08] <mwenning> lazyPower, okeydokey.
[18:09] <tvansteenburgh> lazyPower: ack
[18:09] <mwenning> lazyPower, IA I can give it a try this week again.
[18:09] <lazyPower> mwenning: sorry about the lack of response on that bug - i think we moved all the bugs over to github
[18:15] <sebas5384> lazyPower: o/
[18:15] <lazyPower> sebas5384: o/
[18:16] <lazyPower> sebas5384:  did you see the video i shot to the list? Seems like its right up your alley
[18:16] <sebas5384> lazyPower: didn't see it :(
[18:16] <sebas5384> paste it here again please :)
[18:16] <lazyPower> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCvl-TsxVXA&feature=gp-n-y&google_comment_id=z12rdtcw0zyxifibb04cfv0pbwq4h5jy1j4
[18:16] <sebas5384> lazyPower: oooh yes! i sow your email about it
[18:17] <sebas5384>  but didn't sow the video yet
[18:17] <sebas5384> :)
[18:17] <sebas5384> i'm gonna watch it then
[18:21] <jcastro> lazyPower, did we put your new video up on insights yet?
[18:21] <lazyPower> jcastro: not that i'm aware of
[18:26] <jcastro> lazyPower, always ping me when you push a new vid so I can add it
[18:26] <jcastro> lazyPower, any plans on adding etcd and flannel charms to proper trusty?
[18:26] <lazyPower> ack, will do jcastro. i'll add it to my workflow
[18:26] <lazyPower> yep, its part of a master plan thats brewing
[18:29] <sebas5384> lazyPower: nice!!
[18:35] <lazyPower> sebas5384: glad you liked it :)
[18:40] <sebas5384> lazyPower: do you think flannel can do the networking of the containers created by the juju in the vagrant flow ?
[18:41] <sebas5384> lazyPower: i tried some other stuff but, i can't make it work
[18:41] <sebas5384> definitively my knowledge about networking is really poor
[18:41] <lazyPower> sebas5384: it only enables private networking via the tun/tap device - it hasn't solved public-interface reachability. And its using the same basic princial you were describing to me
[18:41] <lazyPower> i think the better bet here, thats fully portable with our vagrant experience is a vpn service on the vagrant machine
[18:42] <lazyPower> aisrael: you've recently done some work on this, what do you think?
[18:42] <sebas5384> lazyPower: yeah, i installed this https://openvpn.net/index.php/access-server/download-openvpn-as-sw.html
[18:42] <lazyPower> sebas5384:  aisreal recently published an article about networkign with vagrant on yosemite, did you see it?
[18:43] <sebas5384> but i'm didn't test it yet
[18:43] <sebas5384> lazyPower: no oO !
[18:43] <sebas5384> where!?
[18:43] <lazyPower> http://www.adamisrael.com/blog/2014/12/12/sshuttle-workaround-for-os-x-10-10-yosemite-juju-and-vagrant/
[18:43] <lazyPower> looks like neither option are required on osx
[18:43] <lazyPower> its routing
[18:44] <sebas5384> hummmm
[18:45]  * sebas5384 reading
[18:48] <sebas5384> lazyPower: so after that route i can ping the private container ip ?
[18:48] <lazyPower> sebas5384: as i understand it, its setting up a route that will direct all 10.0.3.x traffic to the LXC bridge in the vagrant image
[18:49] <lazyPower> i haven't tested it myself, but its generated a bit of buzz since he published the article
[18:49] <sebas5384> lazyPower: of course!! it's what I'm looking for since i run the first vagrant up with juju in it
[18:49] <sebas5384> hehe
[18:49] <sebas5384> i'm going to test it!
[18:50]  * sebas5384 testing
[18:50] <lazyPower> let us know how it works out for you - if it performs as expected - lets get some feedback on the list :)
[18:50] <lazyPower> or maybe some of that social network lovin <3
[18:51] <sebas5384> lazyPower: yeah! sure :)
[18:55] <aisrael> lazyPower: sebas5384 Yes, please let me know if you run into any trouble with it!
[19:03] <Tug> Hi, I have an idea for a new charm
[19:05] <Tug> I'm using MMS Automation Agent to deploy and manage my mongodb cluster. juju could be providing the machines, install the mms agent and configure it
[19:06] <marcoceppi> Tug: it's completely possible
[19:06] <Tug> I was using the mongodb charm but it still isn't stable enough for me. MMS proved to work really great
[19:07] <Tug> and then I have access to the monotoring and backup services so that's a bonus
[19:10] <Tug> marcoceppi, yes and it's a really simple charm as there is a debian package for the agent. The charm could then check that each machine can communicate with each others, that the directory for the database is created etc.
[19:27] <lazyPower> Tug: that would be an excellent charm for the store, i'm sure 10gen would love to see something like that
[19:29] <Tug> the problem is on optimizing the machine power
[19:29] <lazyPower> How so?
[19:30] <Tug> config servers could be deployed on less powerful machines
[19:30] <Tug> mongod needs persistent storage and lots of RAM
[19:30] <Tug> whereas mongos might be optimized for cpu
[19:30] <lazyPower> well, thats part of the benefit of using constraints when you're deploying your machines - if you were to build the MMS Agent charm - you can then specify lower constraints for the config servers
[19:31] <lazyPower> and make that the standard by offering up a bundle of hte configuration
[19:31] <lazyPower> juju deploy my-mms-charm configsvr --constraints="Mem=1gb root-disk=8gb" is an easy way to specify this declaratively on the command line
[19:32] <Tug> ah yes you can have multiple services defined for the same charm, I forgot
[19:32] <lazyPower> you're still deploying the same charm, you just have a different name - so your peering will be different, but if you're exposing the relationships properly between the services shouldn't be an issue at all. And I do believe that MMS configures all this during runtime anyhow as they're doing a reconciler based mongo orchestration.
[19:34] <Tug> one last issue is that the type of instance that will be deployed on the machine is not configurable by the agent. It can only be done from the mms web interface at the moment.
[19:34] <Tug> maybe we should ask for this feature to mongodb first
[19:35] <lazyPower> Tug: sounds reasonable
[19:37] <Tug> lazyPower, I'm going to fill the request in mongodb's jira right now :)
[19:52] <lazyPower> hey jcastro
[19:52] <lazyPower> look at this https://github.com/rethinkdb/rethinkdb/issues/3410
[19:53] <jcastro> yeah I suggested that
[19:53] <lazyPower> oh, i thought this was organic
[19:53]  * lazyPower snaps
[19:53] <lazyPower> i got real excited there for a second
[20:03] <sebas5384> lazyPower: It Freaking Works !!
[20:03] <lazyPower> GREAT SUCCESS \O/
[20:03]  * sebas5384 excited!
[20:03] <sebas5384> now that's what i was talking about
[20:03] <sebas5384> :D
[20:04] <sebas5384> this is going to change everything around here
[20:04] <sebas5384> :)
[20:04] <aisrael> sebas5384: Excellent!
[20:04] <sebas5384> thanks aisrael !!!
[20:04] <aisrael> sebas5384: My pleasure! I love how fast it is interacting with my juju containers now, too.
[20:04] <sebas5384> that should be in the juju vagrant box
[20:05] <aisrael> sebas5384: That's something I'm going to look into.
[20:05] <sebas5384> aisrael: yeah i would love to see more love around containers with juju
[20:05] <lazyPower> sebas5384: oh yeah?
[20:05] <sebas5384> aisrael: good to know
[20:06] <lazyPower> sebas5384: hang out with us in #juju-edge, we're talking about workloads and containers and that story
[20:06] <sebas5384> lazyPower: yes! like using the lxd directly or something like that
[20:06] <sebas5384> lazyPower: done!
[20:18] <drbidwell> On a MAAS server where can I find the partman-auto/method rules referenced in /etc/maas/preseed/pressed_master?
[20:53] <marcoceppi> drbidwell: no idea, they may be stored in the datastore (postgresql)
[20:59] <sebas5384> aisrael: what would be the best approach to ssh into the containers? because the ssh keys aren't in the host :P
[21:00] <aisrael> sebas5384: I'm still doing that from inside vagrant. There might be a way of adding the ubuntu user key to your local keys, but I haven't explored that yet.
[21:01] <sebas5384> aisrael: yeah I think there's a way to add an ssh key for juju's to manage it
[21:01] <sebas5384> https://juju.ubuntu.com/docs/howto-authorised-keys.html ?
[21:06] <sebas5384> it's not clear to me how to use it
[21:09] <aisrael> I know the vagrant image uses an insecure key, so in theory you could copy the keys to your local ~/.ssh, ssh-add them, and ssh directly into the containers
[21:12] <aisrael> Yes, that'll work.
[21:12] <marcoceppi> sebas5384: you should be able to add your personal key to the deployment
[21:12] <aisrael> I copied the ssh keys from the vagrant user, renamed to id_vagrant and ssh-added them.
[21:12] <aisrael> I can then ssh<EMAIL_ADDRESS>and access a container
[21:13] <sebas538_> so you are using like ssh -i .... ?
[21:14] <sebas538_> marcoceppi: yeah! but how
[21:14] <sebas538_> ?
[21:14] <aisrael> after copying and renaming the keys (id_rsa, id_rsa.pub) and copying to ~/ssh, run ssh-add id_vagrant
[21:14] <sebas538_> sorry for the noob question
[21:14] <sebas538_> aisrael: ohhh I see
[21:46] <drbidwell> marcoceppi: Any idea where I could find information about MAAS internal workings short of reading all of the code?


[06:09] <volvoguy> hi kids.
[06:10] <AndyFitz> g'day aaron
[06:12] <volvoguy> howdy Andrew.
[06:14] <volvoguy> we need some art.ubuntu.com admins. since i still haven't totally matched names to irc handles, have any of you regulars here volunteered yet?
[06:15] <volvoguy> excellent, excellent.
[06:15] <volvoguy> miketech, are you back among the Ubuntu-ites? :)
[06:16] <volvoguy> how about Oliver, Jorge?
[09:48] <miketech> good morning
[09:48] <miketech> ? volvoguy ?
[09:53] <volvoguy> yes sire?
[10:04] <miketech> what are ubuntu-ites? *g*
[10:05] <volvoguy> it is a culture of super intelligent computer users. :)
[10:06] <volvoguy> we were just looking for some art.ubuntu.com admins earlier and thought you might be interested becasue of your involvement with both AGO and gnome-art.
[10:07] <miketech> ah :)
[10:07] <miketech> but no, thanks.
[10:08] <miketech> i will try to focus on gnome-art in the future
[10:08] <volvoguy> hehe. ok. i just told Canonical that you're someone i'd trust with that authority. i'm pretty sure they won't force you to do it. :)
[10:08] <miketech> oh thanks
[10:08] <volvoguy> i'm looking forward to ubuntu and gnome-art integration. :)
[10:09] <miketech> yeah in one week my last exam is taken and then i have more time for gnome-art again
[10:09] <volvoguy> woohoo! (and good luck!)
[10:09] <miketech> thanks :)
[10:10] <miketech> but i will stay here in ubuntu-artwork channel
[10:10] <miketech> its so comfortable in here :)
[10:12] <volvoguy> yeah. nice and quiet...
[10:12] <miketech> yeah :)
[10:13] <miketech> http://art.ubuntu.com/backgrounds/ubuntu/16
[10:13] <miketech> why is it a tar archive?
[10:13] <miketech> with an xcf file ?
[10:14] <volvoguy> it's gzipped too. presumably to reduce file size.
[10:16] <miketech> hm
[10:17] <volvoguy> *shrug* i still haven't logged in as admin to figure stuff out yet.
[10:17] <miketech> but then it shouldnt be described as png file.
[10:17] <miketech> and people cant use it as background
[10:17] <miketech> they have to extract it first, change it to png and so on
[10:18] <volvoguy> well, there's two files listed. the PNG and the gzipped file is probably the layered original. i actually kinda like to see that, so less experienced users can see how people put images together .
[10:18] <volvoguy> simple though they may be.
[10:20] <miketech> ah havent seen that these are two different files
[10:20] <volvoguy> yeah. it looks like we need a bullet or something in there to designate two files.
[10:21] <miketech> on AGO we had some new ideas for this
[10:21] <miketech> http://files.myeburg.net/art_gnome/download4.png
[10:21] <volvoguy> i'll let henrik know, as he seems to be getting along well with the other AGO people.
[10:21] <miketech> but still not sure, how we will do it next time
[10:22] <volvoguy> so in that screenie, is the big "download now" thing a tarball of all related files?
[10:23] <volvoguy> i like the color variation where the filenames are.
[10:24] <volvoguy> are the AGO guys pretty web standard compliant? i'm kind of a fanatic, so that was the first thing i was going to look at in the code. :)
[10:25] <miketech> the big download now button only was a mockup. we are not sure too, what it downloads *g*
[10:25] <volvoguy> hehe.
[10:26] <miketech> AGO should be web standard compliant yup
[10:26] <volvoguy> i do like the image icon and filename for the download section. i'm not sure where henrik got the weird numbering scheme we seem to be using.
[10:28] <miketech> hehe
[10:28] <volvoguy> i need to see if henrik made a package or tarball of the AGO code so I could run it locallly. now that it's live i don't want to risk breaking anything.
[10:29] <miketech> yup right. ago also is installed on another server
[10:29] <miketech> for testing
[10:30] <volvoguy> nice. a sandbox would make me feel more at ease.
[10:31] <volvoguy> i joined the artweb mailing list so i can help contribute back to the code that got us (finally) launched.
[10:32] <miketech> cool
[10:32] <volvoguy> i need to change that header on our site too. it kinda looks like a hack.
[10:33] <volvoguy> i think "artwork for humans" would be a better tagline.
[10:34] <volvoguy> hey, i've spent way too much tmie sitting in this office chair today. i'm going to go crash i think. i'll catch you later miketech.
[10:36] <miketech> oki bye


[00:16] <wallyworld_> ahasenack: i think that's an ec2 issue from what i understand. i got the same error but can bootstrap fine on hp cloud etc.
[00:17] <wallyworld_> i did do a successful bootstrap just recently on ec2 and then it just stopped working
[00:17] <ahasenack> my env was bootstrapped, and then juju deploy started to fail with that error
[00:17] <ahasenack> I then destroyed the environment and then bootstrap started to fail too
[00:18] <wallyworld_> i'm not sure if there's some place that can be checked for known ec2 outages
[00:19] <ahasenack> you think it's a s3 outage?
[00:23] <wallyworld_> it appears so. it's nothing to do with juju in my opinion
[00:24] <wallyworld_> maybe not an outage per se but an issue outside of juju's control
[00:27] <ahasenack> wallyworld_: that actually sounds reasonable, I'm trying some s3 operations via aws's console, and they are failing
[00:27] <wallyworld_> :-(
[00:27] <wallyworld_> i hope it's fixed soon
[01:41] <bradm> anyone about who can talk about LP#1241674 ?
[01:41] <_mup_> Bug #1241674: juju-core broken with OpenStack Havana for tenants with multiple networks <cts-cloud-review> <openstack-provider> <juju-core:Fix Released by gz> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1241674>
[06:43] <hazmat> what's the timeout on bootsttrap?
[06:50] <wallyworld_> hazmat: default 10 minutes but now can be changed
[06:50] <wallyworld_> if you run trunk
[06:50] <hazmat> wallyworld_, cool, how? i'm on a crappy net connection, and mongodb times me out.. i'm on trunk
[06:50] <wallyworld_> let me check
[06:51] <hazmat> wallyworld_, thanks
[06:51] <wallyworld_> hazmat: run bootstrap --help
[06:51] <wallyworld_>     # How long to wait for a connection to the state server.
[06:51] <wallyworld_>     bootstrap-timeout: 600 # default: 10 minutes
[06:51] <wallyworld_>     # How long to wait between connection attempts to a state server address.
[06:51] <wallyworld_>     bootstrap-retry-delay: 5 # default: 5 seconds
[06:51] <wallyworld_>     # How often to refresh state server addresses from the API server.
[06:51] <wallyworld_>     bootstrap-addresses-delay: 10 # default: 10 seconds
[06:51] <wallyworld_> the above go in your env.yaml
[06:51] <hazmat> wallyworld_, got it thanks.
[06:51] <bradm> anyone about who can talk about LP#1241674 ?
[06:51] <_mup_> Bug #1241674: juju-core broken with OpenStack Havana for tenants with multiple networks <cts-cloud-review> <openstack-provider> <juju-core:Fix Released by gz> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1241674>
[06:52] <wallyworld_> bradm: mgz  is your best bet
[06:53] <wallyworld_> bradm: is says fix released - is it now working?
[06:53] <wallyworld_> not
[06:53] <bradm> wallyworld_: well, I'm on the verge of testing it, I have an openstack setup deployed using maas that gets that error - but I had some questions about what happens if it does work - ie, will the fix be backported to 1.16, or do we have to wait for 1.18?  and timeframes around that happening
[06:54] <bradm> wallyworld_: at this rate I should have it tested and confirmed next week
[06:54] <bradm> wallyworld_: but this is for the new prodstack for Canonical - I can't see us going live with a dev juju for that :)
[06:54] <wallyworld_> bradm: i personally am hopeful 1.18 will be out real soon now
[06:54] <wallyworld_> but we may need to consider a backport if 1.18 drags on a bit
[06:55] <bradm> wallyworld_: if we're talking a couple of weeks, great - if its months, we'll have issues
[06:55] <wallyworld_> it will be weeks but maybe a few rather than a couple if i had to guess
[06:55] <wallyworld_> we need to get some critical stuff in place for upgrades and other things before we release
[06:55] <bradm> right, so if I said a couple to a few weeks, that could be reasonable?
[06:56] <bradm> we have other things that need to be done too, so this isn't the only blocker
[06:56] <bradm> just means everything will have to be done using 1.17 until its released
[06:57] <bradm> fun things like if you reboot a swift storage node, the charm hasn't setup fstab entries so swift doesn't work so well anymore. :)
[06:57] <wallyworld_> bradm: i'd have to take a closer look at the bugs against 1.18 milestone. i really wouldn't like to guess without more knowledge
[06:58] <bradm> wallyworld_: ok, but you're thinking weeks rather than months, and if it blows out we could hope for a backport?
[06:58] <wallyworld_> yes, that is my view :-)
[06:58] <wallyworld_> if i were king for a day
[06:59] <bradm> I'll put a comment on the ticket after I've tested all this, and mention our concerns
[06:59] <wallyworld_> bradm: it depends a bit perhaps on what comes out of the mid-cycle sprint currently underway in SA
[06:59] <bradm> wallyworld_: there's a lot of people waiting on this openstack setup :-/
[06:59] <wallyworld_> sure. make sure we are aware and then stuff can be looked at
[06:59] <wallyworld_> i can imagine. to me it is quite critical
[06:59] <wallyworld_> but i'm only one voice
[07:00] <wallyworld_> maybe a backport would be feasible, then that relieves the pressure somewhat
[07:01] <bradm> yeah, that would be sufficient even.
[07:01] <bradm> we'll see - I should be able to get final testing done next week, its been a lot of waiting on hardware, and getting that into place
[07:03] <wallyworld_> ok. let us know how it goes and what you need
[07:03] <bradm> will do, I pretty much have all the pieces in place now for at least some preliminary testing, so I should know pretty quickly next week if it works
[07:04] <wallyworld_> good luck :-)
[07:07] <bradm> thanks.
[07:11] <hazmat> hmm.. just got a report from a user.. is juju replacing authorized keys on machines? or just augmenting?
[07:13] <hazmat> their claiming their iaas api provided keys stopped working once juju agents started running on the systems.
[07:37] <wallyworld_> hazmat: juju augments (appends) to any keys already existing the the ~/.ssh/authorised_keys file
[10:47] <dimitern> rogpeppe, wallyworld_, mgz, standup
[11:39] <dimitern> waigani, your connection could be better :)
[13:08] <adeuring> natefinch: cold you have another look here: https://codereview.appspot.com/60630043 ?
[13:08] <natefinch> adeuring: sure
[13:14] <natefinch> adeuring: reviewed.  Thanks for looking into the OS-specific stuff. I just wanted to make sure we were being careful to not be too linux specific.
[13:14] <adeuring> natefinch: thanks
[13:39] <natefinch> sweet... now there's 2 waiganis... wonder if we'll end the day with 20 or something
[14:01] <dimitern> adeuring, just so you know - when you push more revisions after the MP is approved, (i.e. fixing test failures the bot found) you'll need to self-approve it first with a comment, and then mark it as approved again, so the bot will be happy to land it
[14:02] <adeuring> dimitern: thanks, i really tend to forget the comment ...
[14:03] <dimitern> adeuring, yep, i did too, but the bot never forgets :)
[14:04] <adeuring> dimitern: yeah, that's non-human bureaucracy ;)
[14:19] <rogpeppe> i'm seeing test failures on trunk (running tests on the state package): http://paste.ubuntu.com/6891504/
[14:19] <rogpeppe> anyone else see the same thing?
[14:19] <rogpeppe> (i'm seeing it every time currently)
[14:19] <rogpeppe> dimitern, natefinch, mgz: ^
[14:19] <mgz> rogpeppe: will see
[14:20] <dimitern> rogpeppe, i'm pulling trunk to try
[14:20] <rogpeppe> mgz, dimitern: thanks
[14:21] <mgz> (cd state&& go test) enouhg?
[14:22] <rogpeppe> mgz: should be
[14:23] <dimitern> rogpeppe, OK: 395 passed
[14:23] <rogpeppe> dimitern: hmm. still fails every time for me
[14:25] <mgz> I got one of them
[14:25] <mgz> the second only
[14:25] <dimitern> rogpeppe, are you sure you have all the deps right? i needed to go get error and do godeps -u, which failed for gwacl (rev tarmac something not found), otherwise all good
[14:25] <rogpeppe> mgz: ok, that's useful
[14:25] <mgz> same failure (bar the random port)
[14:25] <rogpeppe> dimitern: yeah, that was the first thing i did
[14:25] <rogpeppe> unfortunately i don't get the same failure when running individual suites or tests
[14:25] <dimitern> rogpeppe, i'm running them now several times to make sure
[14:26] <dimitern> rogpeppe, i'm running go test -gocheck.v in state/
[14:28] <dimitern> rogpeppe, what's the panic in relationsuite?
[14:28] <rogpeppe> hmm, i've just seen another error
[14:28] <rogpeppe> dimitern: when a fixture setup method fails, gocheck counts it as a panic
[14:29] <dimitern> rogpeppe, ah, i see
[14:29] <rogpeppe> this time i got this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6891545/
[14:29] <rogpeppe> (ignore the timestamps)
[14:30] <dimitern> rogpeppe, hm, i got 2 failures on the third run: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6891551/
[14:30] <rogpeppe> dimitern: ah, that looks like the same thing
[14:31] <rogpeppe> well at least it's not just me
[14:31] <mgz> I ayou're just best at hitting the races for some reason rog :)
[14:31] <dimitern> rogpeppe, it seems mongo couldn't handle the stress
[14:31] <dimitern> rogpeppe, it's not properly shutting down and cleaning up stuff, or it lags
[14:54] <rogpeppe> dimitern, mgz: looks like it's a consequence of changes to mgo between rev 240 and now
[14:54] <rogpeppe> (and there do seem to be some relevant changes there)
[14:54] <dimitern> rogpeppe, oh yeah? what changes?
[14:54] <rogpeppe> dimitern: i'm still bisecting
[14:55] <rogpeppe> dimitern: somewhere between r240 and r243
[14:55] <dimitern> rogpeppe, how are you bisecting? i haven't used the more advanced vcs forensics like that
[14:55] <rogpeppe> dimitern: manually :-)
[14:55] <mgz> ah, interesting
[14:56] <rogpeppe> dimitern: bzr update -r xxx; go install
[14:56] <dimitern> rogpeppe, ah :)
[14:56] <mgz> we took that mgo bump for a gcc fix
[14:56] <dimitern> rogpeppe, there are commands like bisect (for git or hg i think) that supposedly takes a lot away from the manual checking
[14:57] <rogpeppe> dimitern: i know, but i can never figure out how to use them well
[14:57] <mgz> which was trivial, butpresumably picked up a bunch of other things, despite me being conserative with it
[14:57] <rogpeppe> dimitern: i've started to try
[14:57] <rogpeppe> dimitern: but never got very far. manual is quite easy anyway
[14:58] <mgz> r241 looks the most suspect
[14:59] <rogpeppe> mgz: yup, if my current run fails, that's where the finger points
[14:59] <rogpeppe> mgz: yeah, that's it
[14:59] <natefinch> rogpeppe: voyeur code: https://codereview.appspot.com/57700044
[14:59] <dimitern> rogpeppe, yeah, me too
[15:00] <mgz> it flat adds a timeout in a bunch of places that had none before
[15:00] <rogpeppe> mgz: there were later fixes to that code, but i guess they didn't work
[15:00] <rogpeppe> mgz: i'll try with r248 and see if it still fails
[15:00] <rogpeppe> natefinch: thanks. looking
[15:00] <mgz> probably we need to SetTimeout to something longer in the context of our tests
[15:02] <mgz> 5 seconds should be okay, but is probably pushing it for some of our testing
[15:15] <rogpeppe> natefinch: reviewed
[15:17] <rogpeppe> mgz: i'm not quite sure what it's a timeout for anyway
[15:17] <rogpeppe> pwd
[15:18] <natefinch> rogpeppe: thanks'
[15:24] <rogpeppe> mgz: it still fails for me if i change pingDelay to 30 seconds
[15:24] <rogpeppe> mgz: so that may not be the issue
[15:26] <mgz> yeah, that was the one that already existed, the new one is syncSocketTimeout
[15:27] <rogpeppe> mgz: ah, i traced the code wrongly without looking at the diffs. foolish.
[15:27] <mgz> (pingDelay did get lowered... but seems less impactful anyway)
[15:29] <rogpeppe> mgz: doesn't look like it was syncSocketTimeout either
[15:29] <rogpeppe> mgz: (i still see failures when it's 100 seconds)
[15:29] <mgz> hm, that's no fun.
[15:32] <rogpeppe> mgz: i'm just experimenting by printing out the deadlines as they're set
[15:42] <rogpeppe> mgz: hmm, it seems like sometimes the timeout is only 100ms
[15:44] <rogpeppe> mgz: ha, variously 10m, 100s, 15s and 100ms
[15:48] <mgz> o_O
[15:59] <rogpeppe> mgz: ah ha, i think i have it - the initial dial timeout is also used for the socket timeout
[15:59] <rogpeppe> mgz: and we use 100 milliseconds in TestingDialOpts
[15:59] <mgz> doh!
[16:00] <rogpeppe> mgz: it's kind of odd that that value is used for two very different things actually
[16:13] <rogpeppe> mgz: ha, i was wondering why it was being a little slow to read the file that i'd sent the output of go test to. turned out that wasn't too surprising because it was 271MB!
[16:13] <rogpeppe> mgz: good thing my editor copes fine with that...
[16:18] <mgz> I actually managed to make vim choke on a juju log file the other day
[16:18] <mgz> giant log on a hobbling along m1.tiny... time for less
[16:38] <rogpeppe> mgz, dimitern, natefinch: simple review for a fix to the above issues: https://codereview.appspot.com/61010043/
[16:38] <rogpeppe> mgz: doesn't vim store the whole file in memory?
[16:44] <dimitern> rogpeppe, looking
[16:45] <dimitern> rogpeppe, no it doesn't - you can open a multigigabyte file almost instantly - emacs does the same :P
[16:46] <rogpeppe> dimitern: ah, i thought it did, interesting
[16:46] <rogpeppe> dimitern: presumably it does have to copy the file when opening it though
[16:46] <dimitern> rogpeppe, reviewed
[16:46] <rogpeppe> dimitern: thanks
[16:46] <dimitern> rogpeppe, why copy?
[16:47] <rogpeppe> dimitern: because there's usually an assumption that if i'm editing a file, i can remove it or move it, and still write it out as it is in the editor buffer
[16:49] <dimitern> rogpeppe, even if you delete it, the file handle that the editor opened is still readable some time after (perhaps up to the amount that got cached in the kernel)
[16:49] <rogpeppe> dimitern: and a quick experiment persuades me that vim *does* copy the data (although i can't tell if it's to memory or disk)
[16:49] <rogpeppe> dimitern: what if you overwrite it?
[16:49] <dimitern> rogpeppe, the contents will be in the kernel file cache for some time at least
[16:50] <dimitern> rogpeppe, if you open it again after overwriting you'll see the change
[16:51] <rogpeppe> dimitern: i just confirmed: vim does not keep the original file open
[16:52] <dimitern> rogpeppe, hmm good to know
[16:58] <rogpeppe> dimitern: also, it does look like vim stores everything in memory
[16:58] <rogpeppe> dimitern: (not that's too much of an issue now, with enormous memories, but worth being aware of)
[16:58] <dimitern> rogpeppe, perhaps up to certain size
[16:59] <rogpeppe> dimitern: i'd have thought that 180MB was probably larger than that size
[16:59] <dimitern> rogpeppe, i doubt you can put 4GB file so quickly in memory, judging by the speed it opens it
[17:00] <dimitern> rogpeppe, i think it uses memory mapped view of the file, using the kernel file cache
[17:00] <rogpeppe> dimitern: it doesn't seem to
[17:00] <rogpeppe> dimitern: but maybe it's different for truly enormous files
[17:01] <dimitern> rogpeppe, yep
[17:04]  * dimitern reached eod
[17:04] <dimitern> happy weekends everyone!
[17:07] <rogpeppe> dimitern: and you!
[17:08] <mgz> later dimitern!
[17:09] <rogpeppe> dimitern: BTW vi definitely seems to read it all into memory, even for GB-sized files
[18:40] <rogpeppe> that's me for the day
[18:40] <rogpeppe> g'night all


[00:33] <cmaloney> ahoy
[13:06] <jrwren> sup sup
[13:53] <cmaloney> Not much. Geting juiced and all
[17:41] <jrwren> noice
[17:59] <greg-g> heh, all I can think of is in The Expanse when they do high g maneuvers and Alex (the pilot) says "here comes the juice!"
[19:19] <cmaloney> It's not dissimilar from that. ;)


[12:54] <cmaloney> Good morning
[13:05] <brousch> yes
[13:06] <jrwren> ugh.
[13:11] <cmaloney> Sorry.
[14:19] <waldo323> yeah can we rename today to something like murphyslawday?
[14:28] <cmaloney> Sure thing
[15:20] <Scary_Guy> Got Pizza House, was awesome.  Had no idea they were open until 4AM
[15:21] <jrwren> you are welcome :)
[15:21] <jrwren> college campuses are fun.
[15:23] <Scary_Guy> no they aren't, I can't carry on them
[15:23] <Scary_Guy> but I tolerate it
[15:24] <Scary_Guy> I mean I can't carry into the bar either even though I don't drink
[15:24] <jrwren> well, you CAN. It just isn't legal.
[15:24] <Scary_Guy> I prefer not to get sodomized by the long nightstick of the law though
[15:25] <jrwren> Suzanna Hupp taught me that following bad laws can result in needless death.
[15:28] <Scary_Guy> I like the saying "it's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6" but still...
[15:29] <Scary_Guy> The entire reason I get to have a gun is that I'm law abiding.  I don't want it taken away or to get screwed with over petty BS laws
[15:34] <jrwren> i agree, and I don't even carry.
[15:40] <Scary_Guy> I wish more people did :/  and I wish more people did :D
[17:37] <waldo323>  wish people didn't have to
[17:37] <waldo323> er I wish
[17:54] <Scary_Guy> me too, but that isn't the world we live in and if the bad guys get to have them, then damnit so should we
[18:00] <greg-g> OGPC
[18:01] <Scary_Guy> OGPC?
[18:02] <Scary_Guy> Original Gangsta Personal Computer?
[18:03] <greg-g> One Gun Per Child (a la OLPC)
[18:04] <Scary_Guy> oh, lol.  well I guess as long as they get the proper training (which includes the value of life).    That did not end well for the dad :(
[18:19] <greg-g> It's ok, I'm just trolling you


[03:22] <cmaloney> This is why ruby pisses me off
[03:23] <cmaloney> https://github.com/metalelf0/pomodori-todo.txt
[03:23] <cmaloney> ^ YAY!
[03:23] <cmaloney> craig@lister:~/configs/todo.actions.d$ t pom start 217
[03:23] <cmaloney> terminal-notifier is only supported on Mac OS X 10.8, or higher.
[03:23] <cmaloney> ^ FFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
[03:23] <cmaloney> addendum: It only told me this after I ran it, not while I was installing it.
[13:09] <brousch_> rick_h_: How did you injure yourself?
[13:23] <rick_h_> brousch_: no idea, did it years ago
[14:29] <cmaloney> Morning
[18:08] <rick_h_> afternoon
[18:13] <cmaloney> Howdy
[18:13] <cmaloney> QUiet day today
[18:13] <cmaloney> everyone must be getting ready for the end of the year. :)
[18:18] <rick_h_> woot
[19:14] <shakes808> Hello guys, been awhile.  How is everyone doing?
[19:16] <cmaloney> Hey shakes808
[19:16] <cmaloney> Doing well. Yourself?
[19:18] <shakes808> I can't complain.  I was just explaining to a coworker about the coffeehousecoders
[19:19] <shakes808> For some reason the Royal Oak sub page is not working
[19:19] <shakes808> where do you get together at now a days?
[19:19] <cmaloney> http://royaloak.coffeehousecoders.com/ ?
[19:19] <cmaloney> Are you on G+?
[19:19] <shakes808> just sits there and loads
[19:19] <shakes808> Yes i am
[19:20] <cmaloney> Huh, I got that page to load up
[19:20] <shakes808> Must be work proxies :P
[19:20] <shakes808> the main and downriver load up
[19:20] <shakes808> but meh ;)
[19:20] <cmaloney> Sent an invite to the G+ Community.
[19:20] <shakes808> thank you, I will check it out
[19:23] <cmaloney> I post the events there (when I remember them. :) )
[20:56] <cmaloney> This is the point where I wonder if SQLAlchemy + MySQL is trying to get me
[20:56] <cmaloney> http://docs.sqlalchemy.org/en/rel_0_9/dialects/mysql.html#auto-increment-behavior
[20:57] <cmaloney> Why it does this is beyond me
[20:57] <cmaloney> But it created a nice heisenbug when i tried to insert records into a database.
[20:59] <_stink_> haha