[04:29] <bjh_> ?
[04:33] <bjh_> ?
[04:33] <bjh_> hey jono
[04:33] <bjh_> are you here?
[06:19] <opiwahn> hello jono. do you record music using ubuntu?
[06:25] <jono> opiwahn, no, I record it on a Mac
[06:25] <jono> I have a pretty complex studio setup
[06:27] <opiwahn> Ok, thanks for the info. I also running Ubuntu for all things, except audio recording..  but I am waiting for the day I do not need logic/cubase anymore :-) Have a great day.
[06:58] <dholbach> good morning
[17:48] <leedev> Weekly Juju Charm Update
[17:48] <leedev> When
[17:48] <leedev> Wed, November 13, 5pm – 6pm
[17:48] <leedev> Did they end early?
[17:53] <jono> hey all
[17:57] <leedev> halo, jono
[18:00] <med_> very live
[18:00] <shine_> Heyy Jono...
[18:00] <nnnn> yup
[18:00] <MasterRolfe> Jip!
[18:00] <TheRealModify> yep
[18:00] <brook> yes i can see yuo^^
[18:00] <nik90> hi jono
[18:00] <bbartek> hi Jono :-)
[18:01] <stoker> How is your son doing?
[18:01]  * med_ opens 30-40 more windows to pump the viewer count
[18:01] <mattyw> jono, that's what children are for :)
[18:01] <med_> looks like a 20-30s lag
[18:01] <OldDroid> greetings from germany :D
[18:02]  * nik90 chuckles
[18:02] <med_> CAKE!
[18:02] <med_> (tomorrow)
[18:02] <med_> vUDS next week.
[18:06] <pcworld> so will Compiz be dismissed when Ubuntu moves to Mir? Or will they port Compiz to Mir?
[18:07] <eLpm> pcworld: They are going to substitute it with something else.
[18:08] <mhall119> pcworld: compiz is inherently an X11 window manager, it won't be ported to a non-X11 display server
[18:09] <mhall119> also, prefix questions with "QUESTION: " and they'll be highlighted for him
[18:09] <burdickjp> i don't have audio right now, but will watch the video in the future.  can you talk about why Ubuntu has switched to QT, but hasn't adopted KDE, which has it's own convergence plan and a VERY scalable interface.  As an example, I run KDE on my desktop, and can, with available widgets, exactly duplicate the Unity desktop.  Wouldn't using and contributing to existing projects which are capable be beneficial?
[18:09] <eLpm> Unity is the DE
[18:10] <burdickjp> also, nice music room
[18:10] <mhall119> https://plus.google.com/u/0/communities/111350780270925540549
[18:10] <mhall119> https://www.facebook.com/ubuntuappdev?ref=hl
[18:10] <eLpm> burdickjp: Unity is the "convergent" DE, in Canonical
[18:10] <nik90> burdickjp: it is not just about the visual stuff that matters... we still dont know if KDE will use scopes that unity provides
[18:10] <eLpm> view
[18:10] <pcworld> so does Compiz run on XMir? Because they said their main problem was "only" multi-monitor support with XMir
[18:11] <udit> Question: Do you think its possible to create an API, to convert "Small/Medium" level applications fromAndroid to Ubuntu. I mean to actually provide such a platform so Indie devs can get their apps converted easily or at least a part of it?
[18:11] <mhall119> https://twitter.com/ubuntuappdev
[18:11] <eLpm> pcworld: XMir is just X.org
[18:11] <mhall119> pcworld: yes, compiz runs on XMir
[18:11] <eLpm> pcworld: Well, on top of Mir, but still
[18:12] <burdickjp> nik90:  how different is that than being the only distro using unity as a whole?
[18:12] <pcworld> eLpm: ok, thanks
[18:12] <nik90> burdickjp: the ubuntu community with canonical have a vision. We shouldn't compromise that just because other distros dont use it
[18:13] <renebarbosa> Question: which version of GNOME will be used on 14.04? 3.10?
[18:13] <nik90> burdickjp: Besides Unity is being ported to Arch, Debian
[18:13] <eLpm> renebarbosa: GNOME 3.8
[18:13] <pcworld> nik90: really "ported"? Or do you just mean the repo that provides dozens of "Ubuntu-patched" packages?
[18:13] <jaymartinez> wondering if ubuntu will get native raw support...
[18:13] <renebarbosa> eLpm: thanks
[18:14] <jaymartinez> help me dump windows and adobe
[18:14] <eLpm> renebarbosa: but who knows :)
[18:14] <burdickjp> nik90: i agree with the vision, but see a different path to it.  When all the functionality can be achieved with current tools, why?
[18:15] <renebarbosa> eLpm: fully agree.. GNOME 3.10 is really awesome :)
[18:15] <set__> family > open source ...
[18:15] <burdickjp> nik90: i'm an arch user :)  the number of patched packages is staggering
[18:15] <mhall119> He's been reading /r/linux :)
[18:15] <nik90> burdickjp: +1 to the patches packages.
[18:15] <nik90> burdickjp: but that should all change when unity 8 lands
[18:15] <mhall119> maybe not all, but there should be less patching
[18:15] <nik90> burdickjp: Unity 8 will not depend on mir, wayland or X and should work quite well with upstream QT
[18:15] <brook> why mi wify on ubuntu is poor than windows7?
[18:16] <Levan> Wow two live stream in two days
[18:16] <nnnn> :D
[18:16] <burdickjp> nik90:  I'm looking forward to it.
[18:16] <brook> i need to maximize my wifi on ubuntu, any tips?
[18:16] <pcworld> they don't seem to try too hard to get Unity to work with upstream projects
[18:16] <nik90> burdickjp: +1
[18:17] <mhall119> pcworld: upstream project haven't asked for much support
[18:17] <nik90> pcworld: which upstream are you referring to?
[18:17] <nik90> pcworld: Gnome wouldnt accept it due to gnome shell. Kde has plasma etc
[18:17] <nik90> pcworld: so I am wondering who upstream is? Unity -> Ubuntu is its own upstream for the DE
[18:18] <eLpm> pcworld: the funny thing is that Unity is the upstream here.
[18:18] <mhall119> we've worked with debian and fedora folks who were building packages for those distros, but we're not pushing it ourselves
[18:18] <pcworld> eLpm: the projects it *depends* on
[18:18] <pcworld> https://github.com/chenxiaolong/Unity-for-Arch/blob/master/README
[18:19] <burdickjp> nik90:  again, why not work in plasma, it has a similar, and matur,e convergence goal?  i don't see how that woild cloud the vision of ubuntu
[18:19] <pcworld> if I want to install Unity on Arch, it's not really Arch anymore, see linked readme
[18:19] <Arigator> Is "Mir" going to make managing dual screen setups easier? For example at the moment with Kubuntu 13.04 and an AMD graphics card, I have to reboot whenever I apply changes in Catalyst Command Center. Or does this only have to do with the graphics drivers?
[18:19] <burdickjp> will kubuntu adopt mir?
[18:19] <mhall119> please start questions with "QUESTION: "
[18:19] <nik90> burdickjp: frankly I haven't used plasma myself to answer that question
[18:20] <eLpm> pcworld: yes, Unity depends on GNOME currently and needs lots of patches for GNOME stuff
[18:20] <nik90> pcworld: many of the packages you list there orginate from ubuntu
[18:20] <nik90> like unity-lens-*, indicator-*
[18:20] <nik90> sure there are a few packages such as gtk3-ubuntu which belong to gnome. But upstream gnome reject patches that apply to downstream
[18:21] <pcworld> nik90: yes, but the need for GTK patches isn't very good
[18:21] <pcworld> also, ideally one would be able to make a very small Unity install with very few packages, like you can with all other DEs
[18:21] <eLpm> pcworld: Let's hope Unity 8 fixes this (at least with Unity)
[18:21] <mhall119> pcworld: agreed, but Unity uses the new GApplication menus now too
[18:21] <nik90> besides Unity 8 as I mentioned above will fix this
[18:22] <burdickjp> it sounds like there's quite a bit of upstream and peer project rejection of Ubuntu's vision.  What do you attribute that to?
[18:22] <nik90> we use upstream Qt strictly
[18:22] <nik90> patches are being pushed upstream for Qt
[18:22] <mhall119> nik90: the Gtk patches are to support Gtk apps in Unity, not Unity itself
[18:22] <nik90> mhall119: oh yeah the application menu etc...
[18:22] <mhall119> Qt made it easy to export the window's menu over dbus, but Gtk didn't, so we had to patch it
[18:23] <mhall119> not Gtk has a new system for application-centric menus that exports over dbus, so we can use that without the patches
[18:23] <pcworld> so is Unity 8 based on Qt only?
[18:23] <mhall119> but for Gtk apps that don't use the new App menu, we'd still need those gtk patches
[18:23] <mhall119> pcworld: the shell is, yes
[18:24] <nik90> pcworld: for the core apps and system apps we used the Ubuntu SDK which in itself is based on Qt
[18:24] <nik90> the Ubuntu SDK provides custom widgets, themes etc similar to other OS like Jolla etc
[18:24] <pcworld> lxde-core depends on: lxde-common (>= 0.5.0-4ubuntu4), pcmanfm (>= 0.9.8), lxpanel (>= 0.5.5), openbox (>= <IP_ADDRESS>)
[18:24] <burdickjp> nik90: but gnome core apps are still used, yes?  such as nautilus
[18:25] <mhall119> burdickjp: on the desktop yes
[18:25] <mhall119> not on the phone
[18:25] <pcworld> unity depends on:compiz-core, libatk-bridge2.0-0 (>= 2.5.3), libatk1.0-0 (>= 2.2.0), libbamf3-1 (>= 0.4.0), libc6 (>= 2.17), libcairo2 (>= 1.2.4), libdbusmenu-glib4 (>= 0.4.2), libdee-1.0-4 (>= 0.5.2), libgcc1 (>= 1:4.1.1), libgdk-pixbuf2.0-0 (>= 2.22.0), libgl1-mesa-glx | libgl1, libglew1.8 (>= 1.8.0), libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.35.9), libgtk-3-0 (>= 3.1.6), libindicator3-7 (>= 0.4.90), libjson-glib-1.0-0 (>= 0.12.0), libnotify4 (>= 0.
[18:25] <nik90> burdickjp: what mhall119 said
[18:25] <pcworld> (doesn't even fit in 512c)
[18:25] <mhall119> pcworld: that doesn't tell you much of anything
[18:26] <burdickjp> are there intentions to move away from gnome?
[18:26] <eLpm> pcworld: That's the current dependency story, yes. But as mhall119 says...
[18:26] <nik90> pcworld: have you taken a look at the dependencies of gnome 3.10?
[18:26] <pcworld> mhall119: it tells me that I can't easily install Unity on another OS without having to install basically everything Ubuntu-related package
[18:26] <mhall119> burdickjp: the intention is to move towards convergence and use of the Ubuntu SDK
[18:26] <nik90> pcworld: I was looking at the dependencies and status of gnome shell in debian..it also has a long list of packages
[18:26] <mhall119> we'll still use a lot of the Gnome plumbing under the hood
[18:26] <burdickjp> pcworld: or KDE for that matter, which is very vertically integrated.
[18:27] <eLpm> pcworld: They are GNOME dependencies...
[18:27] <mhall119> for example, we still use evolution-data-server on the phone
[18:27] <mhall119> and gsettings and other gnome technology
[18:27] <mhall119> just not Gtk or the shell
[18:28] <burdickjp> mhall119: so there will eventually not be any gtk core apps, like nautilus etc
[18:28] <Arigator> pcworld: I wonder if there are going to be Compiz like effects for the tablet and phone versions. That would be cool!
[18:29] <mhall119> burdickjp: there might be, but there are 2 main obstacles right now:
[18:29] <mhall119> 1) Gtk doesn't run on Mir
[18:29] <mhall119> 2) Gtk doesn't easily support application convergence
[18:30] <nik90> mhall119: doesn't easily support -> Does not support convergence at all
[18:30] <mhall119> yay core apps devs!
[18:30] <ahayzen> \o/
[18:30] <nik90> :D
[18:30] <nik90> hi ahayzen
[18:30] <burdickjp> mhall119: i really feel stupid asking again, but why not plasma?
[18:30] <ahayzen> nik90, o/
[18:30] <pcworld> re stream: except you can't really choose Unity 8 in lightdm if the list of your DEs is too long… :P
[18:31] <eLpm> mhall119: the ones which don't support Mir, will run on the X rootless thingy, right?
[18:31] <mhall119> burdickjp: it was too different from Unity desktop
[18:31] <mhall119> eLpm: yes, though obviously that's less ideal and we wouldn't want that for default core apps
[18:31] <burdickjp> mhall119: was unity for desktop developed beforw this convergence plan?
[18:32] <nik90> eLpm: wouldn't you prefer the default core apps on the Ubuntu desktop to be uniform, clean and use the same SDK as other apps?
[18:32] <nik90> eLpm: we are trying to achieve that consistency
[18:32] <mhall119> burdickjp: Unity evolved from the netbook interface.  It had an eye on convergence from the beginning, but it was always a long-term plan
[18:32] <eLpm> nick90: of course, that would be awesome.
[18:33] <eLpm> nick90: just wanted reassurance, about something I've already read about :)
[18:33] <nik90> eLpm: :)
[18:34] <burdickjp> mhall119: Plasma has had a netbook interface and convergence plan, plasma active, for quite a while.  it seems to me a common goal.
[18:34] <mhall119> burdickjp: indeed, but different projects and different technology
[18:34] <RomanOnARiver> does the information given about the software center not being included mean that there will be no software center in the repositories? I ask as someone running a different desktop environment than unity
[18:34] <pcworld> burdickjp: but it wouldn't be "Ubuntu"-branded, and that's what Ubuntu is all about lately…
[18:35] <eLpm> RomanOnARiver: I think the SC will be substituted by the Dash
[18:35] <RomanOnARiver> and so because i am not running unity and have no dash... how will projects like xubuntu be affected?
[18:36] <nik90> pcworld: as I told burdickjp, KDE devs will never accept scopes, lenses, other little stuff that make Unity. I feel that you are just looking at the UI and not the concept itself.
[18:36] <mhall119> RomanOnARiver: if they want to use the Click app store they would need a client for it
[18:36] <nik90> its not about ubuntu branding
[18:36] <mhall119> RomanOnARiver: it's all open APIs and tools, so they can do something fairly easily
[18:36] <RomanOnARiver> and for applications are not "clickapps"?
[18:36] <pcworld> nik90: I never said this made sense, I'm just a little bit annoyed by what's happening with Ubuntu in the last few years… sorry for that :)
[18:36] <burdickjp> pcworld: that's the impression i'm getting as well.  not to discount any of the good Ubuntu is doing, but they seem to be getting a lot of criticism for what is perceived as a 'not developed here' mentality
[18:37] <mhall119> RomanOnARiver: if they are debs in the archives then derivatives can use existing tools
[18:37] <pigman1> hi
[18:37] <RomanOnARiver> so that's what i'm asking, will there be the Software Center in the repos?
[18:37] <mhall119> RomanOnARiver: for the forseeable future, yes
[18:38] <RomanOnARiver> alright good.
[18:38] <burdickjp> nik90:  accepting scopes into the whole of KDE and ubuntu offering scopes as a suppliment to a DE seems not a deal breakee
[18:38] <mhall119> s/emulator/simulator/
[18:39] <set__> .../g
[18:39] <nik90> burdickjp: well u cant integrate KDE without patching stuff
[18:39] <pcworld> burdickjp: why would KDE want to do that?
[18:39] <RomanOnARiver> hoping the emulator is x86 so it can run at native speed in virtualbox, unlike say the super-slow android emulator
[18:39] <mhall119> burdickjp: KDE and Unity have fundamentally different approaches and direction
[18:39] <mhall119> RomanOnARiver: it won't be a hardware emulator most likely, since SDK apps run natively on the desktop
[18:39] <nik90> burdickjp: besides I see no common ground between KDE and Unity except for the fact they use Qt
[18:40] <nik90> the whole design concept is still different
[18:40] <mhall119> RomanOnARiver: instead it'll be a simulator that lets you give fake sensor data and stuff to test your apps on a desktop
[18:40] <leedev> did he say haych tml?
[18:40] <RomanOnARiver> that works
[18:40] <nik90> mhall119: oh yeah I am really looking forward to the emulator
[18:40] <nik90> never used on before
[18:40] <burdickjp> nik90: they both have a convergence vision.
[18:41] <nik90> burdickjp: +1 but approached differntly
[18:41] <mhall119> burdickjp: that's not really enough to make it worth using the same code
[18:41] <chro> how can they talk about high quality software, I just upgraded ubuntu to 13.10 and I've already found several bugs (e.g., keyboard leds are off, keyboard does not work with the latest kernel, sound on speakers does not work after using headphones, among others)
[18:41] <nik90> burdickjp: u said it yourself
[18:41] <pc-world> chro: Ubuntu upgrades never worked too good, and in the last few years they didn't care at all about upgrades or quality of the desktop applications
[18:42] <Arigator> Is it possible to watch a this IRC chat log in fullscreen on the ubuntuonair browser page? Or do I need a real IRC client for that?
[18:42] <pc-world> I don't think they ever really tested upgrade from 13.04 -> 13.10
[18:42] <mhall119> pc-world: not true at all, we care a lot and test a lot to make upgrades as reliable as possible
[18:42] <thiebaude_> Arigator, i use xchat
[18:42] <Arigator> thiebaude, thanks for the tip!
[18:42] <thiebaude_> np
[18:42] <nik90> pc-world: are you serious? <- sarcasm!
[18:43] <chro> pc-world, it  really seems like you say
[18:43] <nik90> pc-world: a whole array of QA teams are focussing on autopilot tests and stuff
[18:43] <RomanOnARiver> btw question about webapps and integration in 12.10 and beyond, are those compatible with other desktops, provided for example that you have the proper indicator installed?
[18:43] <pc-world> mhall119: sorry for being so critical. But there's so many game-breaking bugs that are not being fixed. I think was much better around Ubuntu 9-10
[18:43] <burdickjp> nik90:  i really don't see it as so different
[18:44] <chro> nik90, how do you explain that I have several problems each time I upgrade ubuntu ...
[18:44] <pc-world> example: Java Swing font is broken since 12.04. Breaks all Swing applications that don't define a font on their own.
[18:44] <mhall119> pc-world: there is a *massive* amount of hardware variations people are using, and a *massive* amount of software variations they have installed, we test as much as we can but we'll never cover everything
[18:44] <nik90> chro: for starters, it depends on the hardware you are running on
[18:44] <pc-world> lightdm looks nice, but can't display more DEs than the screen is tall
[18:44] <nik90> chro: you can expect the QA team to test every configuration out there
[18:45] <mhall119> yes there are bugs, there will always be bugs, but we also fix a huge number of them every cycle
[18:45] <thiebaude_> ^^
[18:45] <nik90> chro: if you compare to other OS like Mac OS, Windows etc, they do slight better only because the hardware is certified for a particular version
[18:45] <pc-world> mhall119: I know, I know, I should rather submit patches than complain :)
[18:45] <RomanOnARiver> ubuntu has certified hardware too btw
[18:45] <nik90> chro: buy a system76 laptop and let me know if u still face issues with uprgade :)
[18:46] <Arigator> As a sidline, when you look at the many instruments behind him, you would think that he works for the 'Ubuntu Studio' or 'AV Linux' :P
[18:46] <chro> nik90, I tried several versions of windows in a variety of hardware, and I never had problems
[18:46] <set__> chro: the advantage of open source is to make it able to you to contribute fixing bugs
[18:46] <nik90> RomanOnARiver: +1. However that matters only if users buy those models
[18:46] <nik90> chro: again that's because they come with the "Recommends Ubuntu option"
[18:46] <mhall119> Arigator: well he did develop Jokosher
[18:46] <nik90> chro: this issue btw affects all linux distros not just ubuntu
[18:47] <nik90> it depends on the linux kernel
[18:47] <dkessel> is ubuntu-on-air really weekly?
[18:47] <Arigator> mhall119 Ah, alright! Neat!
[18:47] <RomanOnARiver> i installed windows on this laptop and my desktop, about 11 things did not work - wifi, ethernet, sound, etc.  there was no driver installed and no indication of what i needed or who even made it. rebooted to gnu/linux and found this info... everything worked out of the box in gnu/linux
[18:47] <pc-world> what I'd really like to see is Chromium being moved to main, though I can imagine it's a PITA to maintain it
[18:47] <burdickjp> thank you very much for your time.  I really appreciate it, and your work.
[18:47] <mhall119> dkessel: there is a weekly engineering update, every wednesday now at this time
[18:47] <mhall119> dkessel: jono also has a weekly community Q&A, every tuesday
[18:48] <burdickjp> I'm looking forward to Unity convergence!
[18:48] <pc-world> RomanOnARiver: on my old computer, a WiFi XP driver worked much more stable using ndiswrapper than it did on Win7
[18:48] <burdickjp> thanks again!
[18:48] <mhall119> and many other teams use ubuntuonair.com to host their videos
[18:48] <dkessel> mhall119, nice! too bad i only learned about it today... found it on facebook...
[18:48] <dkessel> will see this more often now!
[18:48] <mhall119> http://youtube.com/ubuntuonair for al the recorded videos
[18:48] <chro> nik90, btw, why did they copied the mac OS x desktop with unity
[18:48] <burdickjp> I came over from google+ BTW
[18:48] <pc-world> chro: because they can
[18:48] <set__> :D
[18:49] <mhall119> you can watch al of the past videos from different people
[18:49] <nik90> chro: what copy? Unity's convergence came much before mac os
[18:49] <thiebaude_> does it really look like osx hmm
[18:49] <RomanOnARiver> i would be more into unity if i could install it without the ubuntu-desktop metapackage. i like xfce4 in the way that it doesn't force a browser for example and i can pick exactly what i want, but installing just the unity package doesnt pull in the de
[18:49] <mhall119> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1311/ to see the schedule for next week's UDS
[18:49] <nik90> chro: just because unity has a launcher doesn't make it similar to mac
[18:49] <thiebaude_> nik90, its not
[18:49] <chro> thiebaude_, the unity is a copy of the mac os x environment
[18:49] <thiebaude_> :)
[18:49] <nik90> thiebaude_: ?
[18:49] <chro> nik90, the icons are equal
[18:49] <nik90> thiebaude_: not sure which statement you referred to?
[18:50] <RomanOnARiver> the unity desktop's design - dash on the left and global menu are not copies of osx, but to recognize that computer monitors now being widescreen means we can use the horizontal space and try to save pixels
[18:50] <RomanOnARiver> vertically
[18:50] <thiebaude_> nik90, the unity launcher
[18:50] <mhall119> BTW, anybody can join in the UDS conversations, either on IRC or on the hangout video, and all sessions will have hteir video recorded for later viewing
[18:50] <set__> QUESTION: default switch off online scopes?
[18:50] <eLpm> RomanOnARiver: unity does not depend on ubuntu-desktop
[18:50] <snwh> QUESTION: am I awesome? :3
[18:50] <mhall119> snwh: yes :)
[18:50] <RomanOnARiver> it doesnt seem to work if if i boot it from lightdm after just installing unity
[18:51] <nik90> chro, thiebaude_: Unity Launcher's is in no way a mac os clone. Its placement and quicklist support is all based on design decisions
[18:51] <Arigator> chro regarding unity: I think taking the menu bar from apple's OS was a very clever idea and the whole "bar stays at the left side" probably has the aim to make it look different to Mac and Windows (in contrast to gnome, KDE, which always look a bit like Win or Mac)
[18:51] <nik90> besides you mention about unity copying macos, didnt u realise macos copying workspace features from Linux?
[18:51] <snwh> mhall119, thanks :)
[18:51] <thiebaude_> nik90, exactly and notifications
[18:51] <mhall119> please start questions with "QUESTION: "
[18:52] <pc-world> QUESTION: Will you consider moving Chromium to main? Often old Chromium versions with known security vulnerabilities are floating around in the repos for a very long time, and I'm sure there's a very large portion of Ubuntu Chromium users.
[18:52] <nik90> thiebaude_: +1 on notifications
[18:52] <RomanOnARiver> I said clearly why the bar is on the left and there's a global menu - save vertical pixels and use horizontal ones, because screens are wide now so you have more horizontal space than vertical. nothing to do with osx
[18:52] <nik90> thiebaude_: although that changes with unity 8
[18:52] <thiebaude_> nik90, and btw i do have ubuntu tricked out to look alot like mac,lol
[18:52] <nik90> thiebaude_: the phone now has snap notifications
[18:52] <thiebaude_> :)
[18:52] <set__> i do search on duckduck...
[18:53] <thiebaude_> i do love the mac osx look
[18:53] <nik90> thiebaude_: beauty of open source bro
[18:53] <pc-world> "anonymized", "encrypted": I don't have root access to Canonical's servers
[18:53] <RomanOnARiver> QUESTION: That's the point - if you turn it on by default and say you can turn it off most people wont turn it off, but they should.
[18:53] <thiebaude_> i would love to see search on the top task bar in uubntu
[18:53] <thiebaude_> ubuntu
[18:53] <mhall119> pc-world: no you don't, you have to trust us to some extent if you want to use the feature
[18:53] <set__> ok, thank you!
[18:53] <mhall119> RomanOnARiver: you're more likely to be aware of a feature that is on than a feature that is off
[18:53] <pc-world> then give users a big red warning when they first boot up Ubuntu and let them know that everything they type is being recorded
[18:54] <mengine_> QUESTION: Any plans of a tool similar to Landscape, to manage all your devices(manage updates, apps, etc? Will ubuntu one take care of these things?
[18:54] <leedev> I typed something in one time and Unity advertised condoms to me for low low prices
[18:54] <leedev> ^honestly
[18:54] <thiebaude_> choice
[18:54] <dkessel> QUESTION: is the anonymization and encryption mechanism described anywhere in public?
[18:54] <Arigator> I have a question: as a layman I probably don't really get the whole impact that changing xorg to Mir is going to have on the desktop version, but are there some very visible positive impacts of changing to Mir? For example, I would consider it a great step forwared, if it is easier to change screen resolution, positions of dual desktops, triple desktops etc. on the fly (instead of having to reboot for applying changes)
[18:54] <nik90> QUESTION: Convergence rocks! Can we expect system apps and core app to be convergent by 14.04?
[18:54] <thiebaude_> let them have a choice
[18:55] <thiebaude_> even though i did turn it off
[18:55] <FlyingPig> QUESTION: What about Ubuntu TV? Any news to share on this one?
[18:55] <mhall119> dkessel: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SmartScopes1304Spec has most of the available info
[18:55] <RomanOnARiver> QUESTION: Does Canonical get any e.g., referral money from Amazon for example?
[18:56] <RomanOnARiver> QUESTION: I ask because the dash was called "advertising" when it does a search
[18:56] <pc-world> RomanOnARiver: re referral money: Mark Shuttleworth said no, though that can only be a lie or clever wording
[18:56] <dkessel> mhall119, thanks
[18:56] <snwh> QUESTION: is it tiresome having to reiterate points over and over and over..? :)
[18:56] <set__> aaah. please stop.
[18:56] <Arigator> For example, I personally have the problem on every system (including Windows), that I want to use a triple screen setup with 2 monitors + 1 Wacom Cintiq graphic tablet, which is impossible to setup (it's only possible to have 2 screens when using a Cintiq)
[18:57] <micah2> QUESTION: Is the possibility of having convergent apps present their menus in traditional drop down toolbars when on the desktop (rather than in a hidden toolbar at the bottom of the window in phone/tablet mode) being discussed?
[18:57] <brook> QUESTION: WHAT KIND OF MUSIC DO YOU PLAY? ^^
[18:57] <mhall119> micah2: yes, the design track has some sessions that will discuss that
[18:58] <brook> QUESTION: WHAT KIND OF MUSIC DO YOU PLAY? ^^
[18:58] <mhall119> micah2: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1311/track/design/
[18:58] <brook> QUESTION: WHAT KIND OF MUSIC DO YOU PLAY? ^^
[18:58] <popey> brook: no need to repeat
[18:58] <Arigator> crap, I forgot to put "question" in all caps and now he went over it :(
[18:58] <simion314> QUESTION  is not a risk to not work on Unity8 for the desktop in parallel with the mobile? What if later  some design flow(in the code ) is found
[18:58] <who_me> QUESTION: Will switching hardware enablement stacks ever be fixed? You can't now go from 12.10 HWE to 13.04 HWE.
[18:58] <mhall119> Arigator: ask it again then
[18:59] <RomanOnARiver> you can still download rhel for no cost, it's not crippled :)
[18:59] <mhall119> simion314: Unity 8 for desktop will begin in the 14.04 cycle, it just won't be complete by 14.04's release
[18:59] <set__> snwh: privacy is important.
[18:59] <Arigator> mhall119 okay, makes sense :)
[18:59] <RomanOnARiver> just dont get support form redhat
[18:59] <Arigator> QUESTION: as a layman I probably don't really get the whole impact that changing xorg to Mir is going to have on the desktop version, but are there some very visible positive impacts of changing to Mir? For example, I would consider it a great step forwared, if it is easier to change screen resolution, positions of dual desktops, triple desktops etc. on the fly (instead of having to reboot for applying changes)
[18:59] <micah2> thanks mhall119! I plan to tune in as much as I can.
[18:59] <pc-world> free as in free beer or free as in freedom?
[19:00] <eLpm> pc-world: both :)
[19:00] <UbuPhillup> freedom
[19:00] <RomanOnARiver> ubuntu is free as in beer and partially free as in freedom
[19:00] <mhall119> partially?
[19:00] <snwh> set__, privacy is important.
[19:01] <dkessel> QUESTION: have you mentioned your creative commons collection yet? :)
[19:01] <pc-world> mhall119: Stallman would say you promote proprietary software
[19:01] <mhall119> pc-world: Stallman doesn't like most popular distros
[19:02] <pc-world> mhall119: I know
[19:02] <mhall119> including Debian and Fedora
[19:02] <isgjevori> are there plans when the core apps of UTouch will be the default on desktop ?
[19:02] <sergiusens> RomanOnARiver, totally off topic, but where can you download RedHat for free?
[19:02] <RomanOnARiver> QUESTION: Wil the future Ubuntu desktop still require hardware acceleration or does Qt sans Compiz work like e.g, Enlightenment?
[19:02] <pc-world> sergiusens: CentOS
[19:02] <sergiusens> pc-world, that's technically not redhat
[19:02] <mhall119> isgjevori: that's a long-term goal, yes, but no exact timeframe for it
[19:02] <jono> jonobacon.org/creative
[19:02] <pc-world> RomanOnARiver: that would make up for Unity 2D, would quite appreciate that
[19:02] <pigman1> QUESTION:what's your next big step surporting chinese users, basic function or more locally & beautiful app
[19:02] <mhall119> RomanOnARiver: Qt uses OpenGL when it's available, and you'll most likely want it
[19:03] <dkessel> :D
[19:03] <mhall119> pigman1: are you aware of kylin?
[19:03] <Arigator> thanks for answering my question and for this whole vidoe thing!
[19:03] <pigman1> just aware of that
[19:03] <pc-world> QUESTION: so the first desktop LTS to have Unity 8 will be 16.04, right?
[19:03] <isgjevori> mhall119:   thank you
[19:04] <mhall119> pc-world: yes
[19:04] <pc-world> okay, thanks
[19:04] <set__> QUESTION: will steam games support be there for Mir?
[19:04] <pigman1> I don't use that actrully
[19:04] <FlyingPig> QUESTION: Why is Practical PHP not on your creative site? :P
[19:04] <RomanOnARiver> you can dl rhel like this: wget -c -O rhel-5-server-x86_64-disc1.iso "https://content-web.rhn.redhat.com/rhn/isos/xxxx/rhel-5-server-x86_64-disc1.isoxxxxxxxx"
[19:04] <thiebaude_> THANKS Jono :)
[19:04] <ahayzen> thanks jono :)
[19:04] <set__> thank you
[19:04] <RomanOnARiver> you need version info but yeah
[19:04] <who_me> thanks to you too
[19:04] <RomanOnARiver> thanks jono sorry if i was a bit blunt
[19:05] <pc-world> set__: he yesterday said he couldn't comment on possible contracts with graphics driver vendors
[19:05] <set__> pc-world: thx
[19:05] <ramzi> nice
[19:05] <set__> bye
[19:05] <mhall119> you can always use #ubuntu for support and technical questions, #ubuntu-touch for discussions of the mobile work, #ubuntu-unity for discussions or Unity 8, #ubuntu-mir for discussions of MIR, or #ubuntu-community-team to talk to us about community stuff
[19:05] <ramzi> bye
[19:05] <Arigator> dat pathos :)
[19:05] <ramzi> lol
[19:05] <simion314> QUESTION any plans to  do something about ubuntu image? a lot of ubuntu haters have risen lately
[19:05] <j_f-f> Thanks Jono
[19:06] <j_f-f> bye
[19:06] <eLpm> Thanks
[19:06] <brook> gj
[19:06] <mengine_> gj!
[19:06] <mhall119> we're on IRC all the time, so if your question wasn't answered during this hour come join out other IRC channels
[19:07] <mhall119> and subscribe to http://youtube.com/ubuntuonair to see past and future videos we make
[19:07] <mhall119> jose: ^^ :)
[19:07] <toddc> thanks
[19:08] <Arigator> cue the emotional violin background music :D
[19:08] <mhall119> emo death-metal guitar
[19:09] <jono> thanks everyone!
[19:10] <hola> bey
[19:27] <simion314> mhall119: do you know if we will have compositing in unity8?
[19:33] <mhall119> simion314: yes
[19:34] <mhall119> that is, yes we will, not just yes do I know :)
[19:34] <simion314> mhall119: are you a dev? your nick is familiar
[19:34] <mhall119> I'm on the community team these days, but I've done a lot of web dev in the past
[19:35] <simion314> Ii am wondering if we could contribute to Unity8
[19:35] <mhall119> simion314: absolutely, http://unity.ubuntu.com/getinvolved/development/unity8/ has instructions for getting the code built and running
[19:36] <mhall119> contributing is the same as any other Ubuntu project, use bzr, push your changes to Launchpad and make a merge proposal for review
[19:36] <mhall119> simion314: you should also join #ubuntu-unity channel to talk to the development team and designers
[19:36] <simion314> ok, never contributed to ubuntu, made some small fixes to a few kde apps, in accesibility domain since I am a person with bad eye sight
[19:39] <simion314> accessibility is the thing
[19:39] <simion314> I am a little worried, unfortunetly I am so busy I can't put much energy into it, I will check with the devs and see what are the plans
[19:40] <mhall119> simion314: http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/beta/en/tutorials/using_bazaar_with_launchpad.html has some instructions for using bzr and launchpad together
[19:41] <mhall119> you'll need a Launchpad user account, but it's easy and useful and used for a lot of Ubuntu related stuff
[19:41] <simion314> thx
[19:44] <simion314> mhall119: funny thing is that I was always a KDE/Kubuntu user, and the anti Ubuntu atitude of KDE  makes me think that  maybe is time to try Unity, see if is open and if I can make it a good DE for people with accessibility needs
[19:45] <mhall119> simion314: it would be great to have somebody with knowledge and experience in accessibility helping out and giving input on designs
[19:46] <mhall119> definely /join #ubuntu-unity and I'll introduce you
[19:47] <simion314> thx, I will join, maybe in weekend or when I will have some more free time
[19:48] <mhall119> sure thing, I'll be there (even if I'm not at my computer)
[19:49] <mhall119> so feel free to ping me when you join
[20:24] <pje900> is it still live?
[20:25] <UbuPhillup> Dont think so
[20:25] <pje900> bah
[21:20] <jose> mhall119: thanks for the announcement :)
[22:23] <sander> Who do I get in touch with, to contribute and check out the continues integration thingie?


[02:14] <cryptodan> TJ-: I found a stable version of Ubuntu Server that doesnt present the aacraid error
[02:15] <TJ-> cryptodan: a different release?
[02:15] <cryptodan> the kernel is Linux capricorn 3.13.0-24-generic #47-Ubuntu SMP Fri May 2 23:31:42 UTC 2014 i686 i686 i686 GNU/Linux
[02:16] <cryptodan> Linux capricorn 3.13.0-24-generic #47-Ubuntu SMP Fri May 2 23:31:42 UTC 2014 i686 i686 i686 GNU/Linux
[02:17] <cryptodan> DISTRIB_DESCRIPTION="Ubuntu 14.04.5 LTS"
[02:18] <cryptodan> I also found that the bug goes all the back to CentOS 5 on kernel 2.6
[02:19] <TJ-> ouch!
[02:20] <TJ-> this is what happens when devs mess with code for newer devices and don't ensure older devices aren't upset
[02:20] <TJ-> There's been a lot of that in the kernel in recent years
[02:20] <cryptodan> also found a validated version of Red Hat for the server doesnt boot from the CD
[02:20] <TJ-> DevOps contagion
[02:20] <cryptodan> it stalls at loading kernel
[02:21] <cryptodan> let it sit over night and no boot
[02:21] <TJ-> "loading kernel" is a boot loader message, if that's what you mean
[02:21] <TJ-> so the kernel doesn't start executing?
[02:22] <TJ-> it should go "loading kernel" ... "loading initrd" then kernel starts and you see its messages
[02:22] <cryptodan> no dmesg
[02:24] <TJ-> right, so hand-over failed. that can happen if the firmware e820 memory map confuses the boot loader
[02:25] <cryptodan> id expect a validated and supported OS per Dell would boot up
[02:28] <cryptodan> but I posted my system specs on that one bug report https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1777586 that I found a stable system setup for people to try
[03:30] <neell> HI
[03:31] <neell> need some help on package installation that in failing on my ubuntu server 18.04.1. i suspect its because of repository
[03:31] <neell> Err:1 http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu bionic/main amd64 cpp-7 amd64 7.3.0-16ubuntu3
[03:31] <neell>   Connection failed [IP: <IP_ADDRESS> 80]
[03:31] <neell> Err:2 http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu bionic/main amd64 gcc-7 amd64 7.3.0-16ubuntu3
[03:31] <neell>   Connection failed [IP: <IP_ADDRESS> 80]
[03:31] <neell> E: Failed to fetch http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/g/gcc-7/cpp-7_7.3.0-16ubuntu3_amd64.deb  Connection failed [IP: <IP_ADDRESS> 80]
[03:31] <neell> E: Failed to fetch http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/g/gcc-7/gcc-7_7.3.0-16ubuntu3_amd64.deb  Connection failed [IP: <IP_ADDRESS> 80]
[03:31] <neell> E: Unable to fetch some archives, maybe run apt-get update or try with --fix-missing?
[03:31] <neell> any idea folks?
[03:32] <TJ-> neell: no route to host? firewall?
[03:32] <TJ-> neell: can you connec to those URLs with curl/wget/w3m/lynx ?
[03:32] <neell> some packages were installed successfully, after 4/5 tries
[03:33] <neell> for this one, its showing 63% completed and then failing
[03:33] <TJ-> Connection Failed means the TCP connection broke
[03:33] <TJ-> could be a MITM and/or proxy
[03:34] <neell> ok, i am running the same my command again. its showing now 63% waiting for header
[03:35] <neell> got this now:
[03:35] <neell> Err:1 http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu bionic/main amd64 cpp-7 amd64 7.3.0-16ubuntu3
[03:35] <neell>   Connection failed [IP: <IP_ADDRESS> 80]
[03:35] <neell> 63% [Waiting for headers]
[03:36] <neell> and the same error as above
[03:36] <TJ-> I can connect to those IP addresses fine
[03:36] <TJ-> check the route with "tracepath <IP_ADDRESS>", try a ping , see if there's any packet loss or variable latency
[03:37] <neell> something wrong from my end. i am kind of newbee on Ubuntu commands
[03:39] <neell> i am giving u tracert result
[03:39] <neell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/q3GjsG28WG/
[03:41] <TJ-> You're on Guam? you ought to set a mirror in Hong Kong
[03:41] <neell> ok
[03:41] <neell> so u want me to connect to hk mirror instead and install package from there?
[03:43] <neell> how do i change repo to my closest one and install package from there?
[03:43] <TJ-> neell: well, it'd likely be more reliable, you'd avoid the level-3 HK>London link which causes a lot of latency
[03:44] <TJ-> The best mirror would be https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+mirror/mirror.xtom.com.hk-archive
[03:44] <neell> ok
[03:44] <neell> how do i change it to that?
[03:44] <TJ-> You'd edit /etc/apt/sources.list and match the info given on that web page
[03:45] <neell> any command to do that?
[03:45] <TJ-> use the "Display sources.list entries for" choose Bionic and it shows you what should be in sources.list
[03:45] <TJ-> neell: any text editor, using sudo because the file is owned by root
[03:45] <TJ-> neell: if you use vim, it'd be "sudo vim /etc/apt/sources.list"
[03:47] <neell> yes, i can see the repo list
[03:47] <neell> so i need to create the hk mirror at the beginning of the file?
[03:48] <TJ-> replace every archive.ubuntu.com with mirror.xtom.com.hk
[03:49] <neell> ok
[03:50] <TJ-> I noticed apt allows editing now, you can do "sudo apt edit-sources"
[03:54] <neell> deb http://mirror.xtom.com.hk/ubuntu bionic main
[03:54] <neell> deb http://mirror.xtom.com.hk/ubuntu bionic-security main
[03:54] <neell> deb [arch=arm64,ppc64el,amd64] http://mariadb.mirror.digitalpacific.com.au/repo/10.3/ubuntu bionic main
[03:54] <neell> deb [arch=ppc64el,arm64,amd64] http://sfo1.mirrors.digitalocean.com/mariadb/repo/10.3/ubuntu bionic main
[03:54] <neell> deb http://mirror.xtom.com.hk/ubuntu bionic-updates main
[03:54] <neell> this is now the list
[03:54] <neell> is it ok?
[03:58] <TJ-> neell: I don't think they mirror security, usually we set that to security.ubuntu.com so you get updates immediately
[03:59] <neell> so only the "bionic main" will be updated to HK mirror?
[03:59] <TJ-> neell: oh, they do mirror it... just the mirror is delayed a few hours compared to security.ubuntu.com
[03:59] <TJ-> neell: try the HK server out for those you've just shown
[03:59] <neell> ok
[03:59] <TJ-> neell: you can always change back if there's no improvement
[03:59] <TJ-> neell: "sudo apt update"
[04:00] <neell> Get:5 http://mirror.xtom.com.hk/ubuntu bionic/main amd64 Packages [1,019 kB]
[04:00] <neell> Get:5 http://mirror.xtom.com.hk/ubuntu bionic/main amd64 Packages [1,019 kB]
[04:00] <neell> Get:5 http://mirror.xtom.com.hk/ubuntu bionic/main amd64 Packages [1,019 kB]
[04:00] <neell> Get:5 http://mirror.xtom.com.hk/ubuntu bionic/main amd64 Packages [1,019 kB]
[04:00] <neell> Get:5 http://mirror.xtom.com.hk/ubuntu bionic/main amd64 Packages [1,019 kB]
[04:00] <neell> Get:5 http://mirror.xtom.com.hk/ubuntu bionic/main amd64 Packages [1,019 kB]
[04:00] <neell> 30% [5 Packages 0 B/1,101 B 0%]
[04:00] <neell> and lots of these lines
[04:01] <TJ-> !paste | nell
[04:01] <neell> ok, sure.
[04:01] <cpaelzer> good morning
[04:01] <neell> seems like its downloading...
[04:01] <neell> but still 30%
[04:02] <TJ-> neell: neell it could point to problem with your connection
[04:02] <TJ-> between you and HK at least
[04:02] <neell> ok. any idea how can i solve it
[04:03] <TJ-> neell: unless it's on your network, complain to your ISP :)
[04:03] <neell> before, it would take few seconds to finish command sudo apt update
[04:03] <TJ-> neell: what have you changed on the server, or on the network, recently?
[04:03] <neell> no
[04:04] <neell> i was able to install maria-db from au mirroe, it was i guess 183MB
[04:04] <neell> now, while installing packages of 140MB, it was giving error
[04:05] <TJ-> neell: I wonder if your ISP has deployed a transparent proxy
[04:05] <neell> ok, i got an error at last
[04:05] <neell> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/xk43GW7YdR/
[04:06] <TJ-> neell: you might get a clue looking at the HTTP headers with "wget -S -O /dev/null http://mirror.xtom.com.hk/ubuntu"
[04:10] <neell> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/7sKQ6ch4dB/
[04:11] <TJ-> neell: hahah "X-Custom-Job: If you see this header, please contact<EMAIL_ADDRESS>for a job"
[04:12] <neell> hmm
[04:12] <neell> ok, so it looks good?
[04:12] <TJ-> neell: no tell-tale signs of an HTTP proxy, but there could be a transparent proxy
[04:13] <neell> can I try to switch to an US mirror?
[04:13] <TJ-> neell: but we say it only got about 1100 bytes when it should have been much more, so I think the connections are being broken on the link between you and HK
[04:14] <neell> ok, got it. may be I can try some other mirrors?
[04:15] <TJ-> you could but I doubt it'll help, looks like all your traffic goes via HK
[04:18] <neell> where can I get mirror list?
[04:21] <TJ-> neell: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archivemirrors
[04:22] <neell> ok, thanks. i will check
[07:34] <neell> looking for help here.... I am trying to install Webmin
[07:34] <neell> getting below error
[07:35] <neell> on Ubuntu Server 18.04.1
[07:35] <neell> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/D873FM5BXJ/
[07:36] <neell> it gives me this
[07:36] <neell> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[07:36] <neell>  webmin : Depends: libauthen-pam-perl but it is not installable
[07:36] <neell>           Depends: apt-show-versions but it is not installable
[07:36] <neell> E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
[07:38] <neell> and when I am trying to install the package "sudo apt-get -f install libauthen-pam-perl
[07:38] <neell> "
[07:38] <neell> it gives me this:
[07:38] <neell> Package libauthen-pam-perl is not available, but is referred to by another package.
[07:38] <neell> This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or
[07:38] <neell> is only available from another source
[07:38] <neell> E: Package 'libauthen-pam-perl' has no installation candidate
[07:39] <neell> anyone can help on this?
[10:21] <tafa2> So I'm getting started on my first production deployment - there's going to be around ~27 production servers and I was looking into some sort of server management tool like SaltStack
[10:21] <tafa2> Anyone using it and love it? Would anyone recommend anything else?
[10:22] <RoyK> I use ansible
[10:22] <RoyK> there's quite a few different tools to choose from, though - chef, puppet, ansible, cfengine, ansible, saltstack etc etc
[10:23] <RoyK> ansible twice in that list - oh well - I like ansible :D
[10:25] <tafa2> thanks RoyK I'm looking at them all - trying to see which one has the best free offering :)
[10:36] <RoyK> "free offering"?
[10:37] <RoyK> iirc they're all open source
[10:42] <tafa2> indeed - I mean which one has the best open source option/easiest to use
[10:47] <RoyK> that mostly depends on your own preferences ;)
[12:24] <thegoat_> so i seem to have an issue with slow dns query response. when i try to ping something like www.google.com it'll take like 6 seconds for it to do the dns lookup, then it'll start pinging.  but if i do a dns query with nslookup it finishes quickly.  i had read some stuff about disabling tx and rx offloading or something like that, but disabling it as per the sugestions,it didn't work.  not sure where to look
[12:26] <compdoc> its a vm?
[12:26] <thegoat_> yes
[12:27] <compdoc> kvm?
[12:27] <thegoat_> esxi 6.5
[12:31] <TJ-> thegoat_: I've seen that when there's an IPv6 record being returned for the hostname too. Try "dig www.google.com" see what is returned
[12:35] <thegoat_> n/m fixed it. it was an id10t error
[14:27] <teward> rbasak: powersj: either of you around so I can bounce a question off of you?
[14:27] <teward> probably rbasak moreso since he's been around throughout nginx becoming a main package :P
[14:29] <teward> rbasak: i think this was discussed, but would there be a problem with the non-LTS interim releases tracking NGINX Mainline instead of NGINX Stable so the interim releases can work with newer features/etc. that won't be available until next LTS in the Stable NGINX branches?
[14:29] <teward> I think we had said there wouldn't be, but I forget the original conversation and what came from it.  (It's also why I emailed the list, but apparently I'm still stuck in the moderation queue, so someone needs to poke the mailing list admins)
[14:44] <teward> TJ-: thanks for the assist yesterday, I've done some revisions to the package I was working on, and I think I am almost at the point where this can be tested for that LP bug requesting a daemon-only package.  Just gotta wait for the PPA builders to finish uploading to run some tests myself...
[14:44] <teward> without the assist and guidance I'm not sure I'd have gotten this all solved.
[14:48] <TJ-> teward: :) it often helps to have a pair of unrelated eyes
[15:46] <axisys> replaced the bad disk with a new disk and smartctl does not recognize it
[15:46] <axisys> https://dpaste.de/iThm/raw
[15:46] <axisys> any suggestion?
[15:50] <axisys> the corrupted disk that were replaced were visible by smartctl.. so backend is fine. so possibly the new disk is bad?
[15:50] <tomreyn> this disk was hot swapped?
[15:51] <tomreyn> i assume it is not 600 peta bytes?
[15:52] <tomreyn> is /dev/sdb a proper device node still?
[15:59] <TJ-> looks like the hot-swap... didn't :)
[15:59] <tomreyn> yes, this looks like live transplant without sedation
[16:00] <tomreyn> maybe you can:  for host in /sys/class/scsi_host/host*; do echo "[ Rescanning ${host##*/} ]"; echo "- - -" | sudo tee -a $host/scan 1>/dev/null; sleep 1; echo; done
[16:00] <tomreyn> but a reboot seems a good idea.
[16:00] <tomreyn> axisys: ^ still with us?
[16:01] <axisys> TJ-: yes, hot swap
[16:01] <axisys> ok .. let me scan
[16:03] <TJ-> axisys: are the disk in a chassis? the messages look like there is some intermediary hardware/firmware between PC and disk
[16:03] <axisys> cool.. scan did the trick
[16:04] <tomreyn> be sure to find out how to hot swap properly for the future. this was not a healthy operation.
[16:05] <TJ-> !cookie | tomreyn
[16:05] <tomreyn> wow, now i get cookies for blaming people, sweet. ;-)
[16:06] <tomreyn> axisys: dont take me too serious, good luck there. i'd still wnat to reboot it soon.
[16:07] <axisys> tomreyn: why reboot? (learning)
[16:07] <axisys> tomreyn: curious on hot swap properly ..
[16:08] <tomreyn> axisys: well you ripped this disk out while the controller was still accessing it, or thinking it was still there all the time. your dmesg will be full of errors., and a couple things may still be in an unsane state.
[16:09] <axisys> how do I tell controller to stop accessing the disk? thanks for your help!
[16:10] <tomreyn> axisys: how to hot swap properly will be documented in your server operators manual. but i'd always announce removal via software before the fact.
[16:10] <tomreyn> don't do this now: echo 1 > /sys/block/sda/device/delete
[16:10] <axisys> tomreyn: right.. documenting ..
[16:11] <tomreyn> obviously you want to unomunt everything from there beforehand
[16:11] <axisys> ok /dev/sdb is not in use anywhere
[16:12] <tomreyn> i'd "eject", too, just in case
[16:12] <tomreyn> also not now
[16:12] <axisys> eject would eject cdrom.. no?
[16:12] <axisys> understand...
[16:13] <axisys> system is running off of /dev/sda .. right now.. so no harm either way.. but understood
[16:14] <axisys> tomreyn: so once I swap the disk just scan it, right?
[16:15] <tomreyn> axisys: yes, that's usually enough afterwards. the important thing is to prepare for removal properly
[16:15] <tomreyn> axisys: and most of all not all hardware has hot swap capability
[16:15] <axisys> right
[16:16] <tomreyn> axisys: you need the controller, firmware, and OS to support it. and whatever else might sit between controller and storage.
[16:17] <tomreyn> so start by reading your controller / mainboard / server manual
[16:17] <axisys> ok.. I tested on another system exact same hardware sun fire x2250 .. and it worked.. first stop accessing, swap out and then scan.. awesome! saving a steps in my wiki.. thank you!
[16:18] <tomreyn> another computer museum?
[16:18] <tomreyn> :)
[16:19] <tomreyn> you'll pay a lot of power for those. might be worth replacing them by half as many current systems some day.
[16:19] <tomreyn> or actually a third
[16:21] <axisys> yes.. those are from part.. recently most of our servers hp dl360 or dl380s
[16:21] <axisys> from past*
[16:22] <tomreyn> current gen hp is fine, as long as you have a support contract.
[16:22] <tomreyn> and dont need to stack up fast...
[16:24] <tomreyn> ^ personal opinion / experience, i'm not affiliated with canonical
[17:05] <rbasak> teward: what would happen if we tracked mainline before LTS-1 and we didn't get a stable release by LTS?
[17:06] <teward> rbasak: NGINX stable releases are always cut from mainline around the time we release
[17:06] <teward> for 16.04 it was cut same-day as release and we did a version-string-only SRU with the Release team's approval post release
[17:06] <teward> for 18.04 it came out same week as FinalFreeze but I was able to get that in right before the freeze went into effect (same-day)
[17:07] <teward> rbasak: if we track Mainline up to release date, then the delta between Mainline and Stable when it's cut is extremely minimal, and the past several cases we've run into this we really didn't have to do any feature changes, etc. just the version string revisions
[17:08] <teward> by the time of NGINX Stable cut which is about when we release LTS, it would be most likely a trivial post-release version-string-only change SRU with no new 'features' by the release date
[17:08] <teward> rbasak: basically it'd mirror what we had for 16.04, or this past time for 18.04.
[17:09] <teward> the other problem we're going to face though rbasak...
[17:09] <teward> if we don't give the 'newer versions' people are going to become 100% dependent on the PPA for the "new features"
[17:09] <teward> at which point the question is "why do we bother updating nginx in the repos then?" (to the non-informed user, that is)
[17:09] <rbasak> teward: what I mean is: we should bump to mainline unless the following stable is already scheduled to be release before freeze for Ubuntu's following LTS.
[17:09] <rbasak> we *shouldn't*
[17:09] <teward> rbasak: and that's the 'problem'
[17:09] <teward> rbasak: it's always just before or just after our release date
[17:10] <teward> consistently falls around the same week or two, and they don't give firm date releases
[17:10] <teward> rbasak: i have no issues keeping it at 'stable'
[17:10] <teward> but people are going to complain heavily, I guarantee it.
[17:11] <rbasak> It's generally OK to bump to final stable, even in an SRU, if the changes are minimal (eg. just a version string bump, or a few bugfixes), since those changes qualify for SRU anyway.
[17:11] <rbasak> However, it risks pain.
[17:11] <rbasak> So it depends on you I think. By Ubuntu policies we can do it.
[17:11] <teward> it's actually less pain to bump to latest Mainline and switch it to nginx stable, because a large portion of the 'fixes' and changes to spec of HTTP/2 and such ahppen in Mainline
[17:11] <rbasak> But, as I don't particularly want to commit Canonical's time to back that up, I'd prefer to stick to nginx stable consistently.
[17:12] <teward> this is why i posted to the ML
[17:12] <teward> but unless you can release that, it's stuck in limbo for eternity
[17:12] <teward> (read: mod queue)
[17:12] <rbasak> Oh
[17:12]  * rbasak looks at the mod queue
[17:13] <rbasak> Accepted
[17:13] <teward> rbasak: To be fair, I tell people to use the PPA if they want the "latest and greatest" anyways, but the reason I'd like more feedback is because MaaS people or other departments might want to see whether their stuff works in the newer releases, etc.
[17:13] <teward> rbasak: as for *my* workload it doesn't change
[17:13] <teward> i have to keep both NGINX Stable and NGINX Mainline uptodate and working in two PPAs anyways, so
[17:13] <teward> the other problem is Debian
[17:13] <teward> because they track Mainline usually most of the time
[17:14] <teward> ... though they are far behind at this point, last thing they did was in april
[17:14] <rbasak> It's the risk of work, I think. If nginx stable releases late and with feature changes, leaving us in a pickle if we've released our LTS pre-stable-release.
[17:14] <teward> (E:UnmaintainedInDebian?)
[17:15] <rbasak> Since we need to decide on that in advance, I think it depends on our relationship with upstream.
[17:15] <rbasak> (and on how much we need it)
[17:16] <teward> where 'upstream' means nginx in this context?
[17:16] <teward> and not Debian
[17:17] <rbasak> Yes
[17:18] <teward> rbasak: the only reason I am hesitant to track only Stable is because Stable is only supported officially upstream for a year
[17:18] <teward> that is, until the next Stable cut from Mainline
[17:18] <teward> and we're going to have that problem with Mainline either way, because that's only good for a year before they drop official support for it
[17:18] <teward> the remaining 'bug fixes' are either nitpicked or microreleased as needed for substantial ones
[17:19] <teward> and security patches need backported either way (but Security Team takes care of that for the most part)
[17:19] <rbasak> Stable is a better fit for stable distribution releases I think?
[17:19] <teward> do we consider the interim releases "stable distribution releases" though as we only support them for 9 months?
[17:19] <rbasak> I don't see how mainline would be better to have in the distribution from a length of support perspective.
[17:19] <teward> rbasak: wait until TLS1.3 is a thing?
[17:20] <rbasak> Yes. The SRU policy applies equally on non-LTS releases.
[17:20] <rbasak> And our stability promise is roughly the same.
[17:20] <rbasak> If anything, LTS is less stable, because we do HWE and occasionally feature enhancements in them.
[17:20] <rbasak> (because they have an extended life it's more necessary to do that)
[17:23] <teward> y'know it sucks I can't search the mailing list archives easily
[17:26] <teward> rbasak: i found a thread in the list about this, back from 2015...
[17:26] <teward> sarnold: you were the last to reply to it heh
[17:28] <teward> and it establishes the precedent that was used for 14.10 through 15.10 and then established the 16.04 changes.  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-server/2015-June/007075.html https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-server/2015-June/007076.html
[17:28] <teward> not sure if that opinion still stands
[17:28] <teward> not sure this has to be determined today, we could wait for replies to my message to the list you just released, rbasak
[17:29] <teward> I ultimately don't care either way, but you still have to realize that every x.04 release is going to run into the same problem with the current 'release schedule' that NGINX has.
[17:29] <teward> even if we stick to stable.
[18:55] <axisys> before rsync completes .. sda disappeared ..
[18:55] <axisys> sdb is the new disk as part of md0 (sda1,sdb1) and md1(sda2,sdb2)
[18:56] <axisys> # ls -al fstab
[18:56] <axisys> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1113 Jul  2  2012 fstab
[18:56] <axisys> # cat fstab
[18:56] <axisys> cat: fstab: Input/output error
[18:56] <axisys> yikes!
[19:00] <ahasenack> was that a striped raid?
[19:00] <axisys> ahasenack: raid1
[19:01] <ahasenack> so why did the raid fail if sdb was still there?
[19:01] <axisys> sdb is the new disk to replace bad sdb
[19:02] <axisys> smartctl was saying FAILING and replace it now ..
[19:02] <ahasenack> you had a failure during the raid rebuild?
[19:02] <rangergord> Hiya. What would happen if I create a Virtualbox VM with Ubuntu Server on it, including the ubuntu-desktop package for GUI, then copy this VM to a headless server? Would Ubuntu still start and run the background services?
[19:02] <axisys> ahasenack: yes :-(
[19:03] <rangergord> I don't yet have a headless server to try it out for myself
[19:03] <ahasenack> axisys: yep, I heard that can happen
[19:03] <ahasenack> rangergord: it will still have a video card, right?
[19:03] <rangergord> ahasenack: condolences
[19:03] <rangergord> ahasenack: I'm not sure. Let's say it doesn't. What happens then?
[19:03] <ahasenack> rangergord: I don't think a PC boots without a video card
[19:04] <ahasenack> but could be wrong
[19:04] <rangergord> pretend it's a typical 1U server. if it needs a gpu to boot, then sure, there's one.
[19:04] <ahasenack> rangergord: anyway, I would expect it to try to start X as usual and present the login greeter. If X failed (no driver), that would be ok. What wouldn't be running is services that run after a desktop user logins
[19:05] <ahasenack> all that UI stuff
[19:05] <rangergord> ahasenack: good enough for me! thanks.
[19:05] <ahasenack> axisys: that's why I hear that two disk redundancy is advised. If possible ($$), of course
[19:06] <ahasenack> the rebuild stress can make the last disk fail
[19:06] <ahasenack> s/last/remaining/
[19:06] <rangergord> also never forget backup :)
[19:07]  * ahasenack ponders about adding a 3rd disk to his 2-disk mirror
[19:07] <ahasenack> I actually have one, but was considering it a spare
[19:07] <rangergord> could make it a differential backup of the mirror
[19:07] <rangergord> *mirrored disks
[19:08] <rangergord> I got myself a Synology recently for home server use. Didn't want to invest the time to learn everything.
[19:09] <rangergord> Synology is just Linux with a GUI slapped on it
[19:10] <ahasenack> I have a synology
[19:10] <ahasenack> what I disliked about it is that they have their own patches on top of btrfs
[19:10] <ahasenack> I can't btrfs send/recv to/from it
[19:10] <ahasenack> from a linux box
[19:11] <ahasenack> so now I have an old desktop with zfs to backup that nas and other stuff
[19:11] <ahasenack> almost headless :)
[19:16] <axisys> it is possible raid build completed before sda giving up.. but I am not 100%
[19:16] <axisys> ahasenack: not sure how to confirm
[19:16] <ahasenack> is it still rebuilding?
[19:16] <ahasenack> check /proc/mdstat
[19:16] <axisys> ahasenack: no
[19:17] <axisys> ahasenack: yep
[19:17] <ahasenack> and you still hav the error?
[19:17] <axisys> sda is missing
[19:17] <ahasenack> anything useful in the last lines of dmesg?
[19:17] <axisys> ahasenack: https://dpaste.de/Ayvu/raw
[19:17] <ahasenack> and, is sda really dead?
[19:17] <axisys> ahasenack: yes
[19:17] <axisys> file-system is readonly
[19:18] <axisys> readonly now*
[19:18] <ahasenack> what fs is on top of that?
[19:18] <axisys> ext4
[19:19] <axisys> so md0 completed .. but md1 is the large disk and not sure if completed
[19:21] <ahasenack> I don't know
[19:31] <ironpillow> hi all, I have a ubuntu 18.04 LTS server box (quad core, 8GB memory) as a router and have two access points. I am running dnsmasq as dhcp and dns server. I have around 30 wifi devices connecting to the network. For some reason, the ubuntu box randomly looses internet. I can't ping <IP_ADDRESS> or google.com. But as soon as I reboot the ubuntu box, it works. I don't change anything. Any advice? really apprec
[19:31] <ironpillow> iate it
[19:33] <ahasenack> ironpillow: that's very generic, sorry. It could be a million things
[19:35] <ironpillow> ahasenack: yeah. I am not able to figure it out. syslog is not showing anything in particular. dmseg only shows one error perf: EDAC pnd2: Failed to register device with error -22.
[19:35] <ironpillow> ahasenack: do you know if /etc/resolv.conf is automatically rewritten. I ask because, there is a bug in 18.04 and I have to re-write resolov.conf manually every time system is rebooted.
[19:35] <ahasenack> it's a generated file, yes. Changes will be lost
[19:36] <ahasenack> networks coming and going could trigger an update to resolv.conf
[19:41] <axisys> added a disk on same slot where sda was.. it came up as sdc .. server still up ..
[19:44] <axisys> sdc1 is added to md0 fine, no complain.. but failing to add sdc2
[19:44] <axisys> # mdadm /dev/md1 --add /dev/sdc2
[19:44] <axisys> mdadm: cannot load array metadata from /dev/md1
[19:45] <tomreyn> well md1 thinks it's active device is sda2. but you removed this, apparently uncleanly.
[19:46] <ironpillow> ahasenack: so it might be re-written on a running system?
[19:46] <tomreyn> you'll need to mdadm --fail /dev/sda2, just telling mdadm about the facts, i guess. and probably delete the sda scsi device, too
[19:47] <tomreyn> (or sata)
[19:47] <axisys> tomreyn: no .. it was failing and removed itself while  rebuilding
[19:47] <ahasenack> ironpillow: nowadays, actually, I think it will stay put, with just the entry to <IP_ADDRESS>. It's the resolver at <IP_ADDRESS> that gets reconfigured
[19:47] <tomreyn> axisys: so those dmesg records are old?
[19:47] <axisys>  mdadm --fail /dev/sda2
[19:47] <axisys> mdadm: error opening /dev/sda2: No such file or directory
[19:48] <tomreyn> sorry, wrong usage
[19:48] <axisys> tomreyn: that triggered I think during raid1 rebuild with sdb
[19:49] <axisys> let me paste current /proc/mdstat
[19:49] <ironpillow> ahasenack: I have to change the entry to <IP_ADDRESS> for internet to work.
[19:49] <ahasenack> from <IP_ADDRESS>?
[19:49] <ironpillow> yes
[19:49] <mike-zal2> have someone already updated 16.04 to 18.04?
[19:50] <axisys> https://dpaste.de/OHfb/raw
[19:50] <tomreyn> axisys: actually it was the correct usage
[19:50] <tomreyn> sorry abotu my confusion
[19:51] <axisys> yes /dev/sda seems disappeared
[19:52] <tomreyn> axisys: well it's still in mdstat
[19:52] <axisys> is there a way I can force in sdc2 into md1
[19:54] <ironpillow> ahasenack: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/+bug/1624320
[19:54] <tomreyn> you can "mdadm --remove /dev/sda2" now
[19:54] <ironpillow> so does systemd-resolved append <IP_ADDRESS> at random times on a running system?
[19:55] <ahasenack> no
[19:55] <ahasenack> I don't know what happens in an upgrade from < 18.04
[19:55] <tomreyn> axisys: and you can "mdadm --add /dev/md1 /dev/sdc2"
[19:56] <ahasenack> but a fresh 18.04 will use just <IP_ADDRESS>
[19:56] <axisys> tomreyn: # mdadm /dev/md1 --add /dev/sdc2
[19:56] <axisys> mdadm: cannot load array metadata from /dev/md1
[19:59] <ironpillow> ahasenack: yes, I am not able to ping or access internet. I have dnsmasq installed.
[20:00] <ironpillow> and my dns server is at <IP_ADDRESS>
[20:01] <ironpillow> sorry: my dns server dnsmasq is listening on <IP_ADDRESS>
[20:02] <ironpillow> but forgetting about dns, ping <IP_ADDRESS> also is not working when resolv.conf has <IP_ADDRESS>. it only works after changing it to <IP_ADDRESS>
[20:03] <teward> `ping <IP_ADDRESS>` doesn't use DNS at all
[20:03] <tomreyn> axisys: hmm that's quite unfortunate. the array metadata explains how the data is aligned on the raid devices. if this is missing... there's no way to interpret it.
[20:03] <teward> so if `ping <IP_ADDRESS>` just doesn't work that's probably a different issue
[20:04] <ironpillow> teward: yeah, that's what confusing. ubuntu just stops working. I have to reboot in order for ping <IP_ADDRESS> to work
[20:08] <ahasenack> ironpillow: does ping get stuck?
[20:08] <ahasenack> or what does it complain about?
[20:08] <tomreyn> axisys: you can try to --grow --raid-devices=2 /dev/md1   (but i assume it will fail with the same error)
[20:09] <ironpillow> ahasenack: it gets stuck
[20:10] <ironpillow> doesn't complain or anything.
[20:12] <axisys> let me check
[20:13] <axisys> # mdadm --grow --raid-devices=2 /dev/md1 --add /dev/sdc2                             mdadm: /dev/md1: no change requested
[20:13] <axisys> tomreyn: ^
[20:14] <tomreyn> axisys: can you show a current paste of the same info as before?
[20:17] <axisys> tomreyn: https://dpaste.de/6L5P/raw
[20:20] <tomreyn> axisys: so do you still have file systems mounted on top of md1?
[20:22] <axisys> system is still up .. but readonly and sometimes even worse like here
[20:22] <tomreyn> you should not, so be sure to go to single user mode and unmount / disable anything that's on top of md1
[20:22] <axisys> # ls -al fstab
[20:22] <axisys> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1113 Jul  2  2012 fstab
[20:22] <axisys> # cat fstab
[20:22] <axisys> cat: fstab: Input/output error
[20:22] <tomreyn> i assume your OS is on md0?
[20:23] <axisys> md0 is /boot
[20:23] <tomreyn> so the Os is on md1?
[20:23] <tomreyn> right md0 is too small to be /
[20:23] <axisys> https://dpaste.de/YrWm/raw
[20:24] <tomreyn> lsblk would maybe answer my question
[20:24] <axisys> haha ..
[20:24] <tomreyn> but i think this is a lost cause, rebuild system, restore backups
[20:24] <axisys> # lsblk
[20:24] <axisys> bash: /bin/lsblk: Input/output error
[20:25] <teward> assuming there are backups, of course.
[20:25] <tomreyn> well, we always assume that ,right?
[20:25] <teward> after dealing with users on Ask Ubuntu for a couple years I lost hope that there're backups held by [Insert User Looking for Help Here]
[20:25] <teward> but you're not wrong
[20:26] <teward> we should always assume there's backups :P
[20:31] <tomreyn> axisys: so in the hopefully very unlikely case that there are NO backups: you could dd sdb2 to some other device, then boot to some recovery system and run mdadm against sdb2, creating a new RAID-1 array with a single active device
[20:32] <tomreyn> and then see if there is data on there that you can recover.
[20:34] <tomreyn> how to recover this data will depend on which block device layers you had on top of md1, you would need to recreate those there as well
[20:34] <axisys> ah.. so dd if=/dev/sdb2 of=/dev/sdc2; (no backup)
[20:35] <tomreyn> yes, if sdc2 is not in use
[20:35] <tomreyn> i thought we had added that to md1
[20:35] <axisys> this is one of the 6 servers to access the network.. so it is not an outage.. but I am taking this opportunity to learn to rebuild it graciously (if possible)
[20:36] <axisys> tomreyn: failing to add sdc2 to md1
[20:36] <tomreyn> oh right there was no metadata, so it couldnt add it
[20:38] <tomreyn> axisys: also worth a try while you're still running: mdadm --grow --raid-devices=3 /dev/md1
[20:38] <tomreyn> but this would also fail, i guess
[20:39] <axisys> # mdadm --grow --raid-devices=3 /dev/md1
[20:39] <axisys> raid_disks for /dev/md1 set to 3
[20:39] <tomreyn> axisys: any news on mdstat?
[20:39] <axisys> md1 : active raid1 sdb2[2](S) sda2[0]
[20:39] <axisys>       243801976 blocks super 1.2 [3/1] [U__]
[20:40] <axisys> 3/1
[20:40] <axisys> I could try adding it again
[20:40] <tomreyn> yes
[20:40] <tomreyn> but the metadata is still missing ;)
[20:40] <axisys> does not like it.. if I could just get metadata from where :-)
[20:40] <axisys> # mdadm /dev/md1 --add /dev/sdc2
[20:40] <axisys> mdadm: cannot load array metadata from /dev/md1
[20:41] <axisys> a good server with similar build
[20:41] <axisys> built*
[20:42] <tomreyn> what do yuo mean?
[20:42] <axisys> I wonder if I could take its metadata and place it in /boot dir since md0 is good and point to it
[20:42] <axisys> i have another good server with similar built
[20:42] <tomreyn> how far in was the resync from sda2 to sdb2 when it failed, do yuo know?
[20:43] <axisys> no ..
[20:43] <tomreyn> the other server wont help you
[20:43] <axisys> k
[20:45] <tomreyn> your only hope now is to try to carve off sdb2 what was copied there.
[20:45] <tomreyn> or to have soemone recover data off your failed disk drives
[20:47] <axisys> yeah.. if that is the case we will just rebuild.. but using this opportunity to indulge all ideas..
[20:53] <axisys> different topic => is it possible to convert from RAID1 to RAID10 without data loss with HP raid controller?
[20:54] <axisys> yes I am working on another set of hp servers when one of the server, whoever intern built, did not use LVM .. so trying to find a way to expand sda .. application vendor says it has to be all in sda ..
[20:54] <axisys> s/when/where/
[20:55] <axisys> all the other servers has LVM.. so had no issue on expanding
[20:57] <tomreyn> so you have hardware raid 1 (which controller?) and the capacity it provides is insufficient, but you have more spare disks?
[20:57] <tomreyn> downtime is an issue?
[21:00] <axisys> tomreyn: downtime is not an issue
[21:00] <axisys> tomreyn: raid1 (800G,800G) .. need to expand and bought 2 2TB ..
[21:00] <axisys> so thinking another raid1 and then strip the two raid1s
[21:01] <axisys> stripe*
[21:01] <tomreyn> if downtime is not an issue i'd just backup and rebuild from scratch.
[21:02] <tomreyn> if downtime is an issue, it seems to be possible to migrate https://serverfault.com/questions/545809/how-to-move-raid-1-to-raid-10
[21:04] <tomreyn> hmm this is really old, better make sure it's still valid
[21:04] <axisys> k
[21:04] <axisys> thanks for the link tho..
[21:05] <tomreyn> https://support.hpe.com/hpsc/doc/public/display?docId=emr_na-c03510253
[21:05] <axisys> cool.. online resizing .. nice
[21:05] <tomreyn> but then i dont know what hardware you have there
[21:08] <axisys> Smart Array P440ar
[21:09] <tomreyn> you apparently operate as a company or larger organization, and dont have backups for everything. i really recommend you take some time to make sure your processes are in good shape.
[21:09] <tomreyn> if this can happen now, it will only get worse in the future unless you re-evaluate how you do what you do.
[21:10] <tomreyn> P440ar - that#s a common one.
[21:10] <axisys> these HP servers have backup .. that old SUN FIRE was just bashtion server one of 6 which do not have backup
[21:13] <tomreyn> it still semed mimportant enough thtat you spent time on evaluating whether the data on raid can be restored, if partially.
[21:13] <tomreyn> *seemed
[21:14] <tomreyn> i don't mean to criticise you, it's none of my business, i'm just trying to provide suggestions
[21:15] <axisys> hey.. taking all as suggestions.. appreciate the help
[21:15] <tomreyn> :)
[21:15] <tomreyn> HPE SSA user guide https://support.hpe.com/hpsc/doc/public/display?docId=c03909334
[21:16] <tomreyn> HPE P440ar controller quickspecs https://www.scalcom.de/ftp-import/datasheets/726736-B21.pdf
[21:17] <tomreyn> actually this one https://h20195.www2.hpe.com/v2/getdocument.aspx?docname=c04346299


[23:23] <bobweaver> Hello
[23:24] <bobweaver> how to declare a new QML file to load when needed ?
[23:25] <bobweaver> can I call in scope or do I have to use some javascript
[23:27] <bobweaver> I tried to convert everything to NUX and that was nothing but a waste of time and a epic failure. So I am going to stick with what I know which is not that much but I want to have a preview for all videos including youtube so when user clicks on youtube video they get new qml similar to Preview*.qml
[23:28] <bobweaver> also my player is not showing preview for fastforward or whatever in that case any ideas ?


[06:49] <gnomefreak> kenvandine: more than likely you are not here, but when you get a chance can you please test the following: open gwibber->let it update-> read->try to clear window from gwibber menu. mine still doesnt clear window or stream.
[07:06]  * gnomefreak thinks today is going to be a very long day :( its 2:06am
[07:07] <gnomefreak> it would be nice to fix xorg too
[15:08] <c0p3rn1c> how do you fix the dual screen flash fullscreen problem?
[15:49] <c0p3rn1c> I guess I'll have to use the compiz-fusion zoom function
[20:43] <fta> asac, fixed the codecs to use gyp: http://paste.ubuntu.com/340164/  :P
[21:37] <BUGabundo> hey
[21:49] <fta> yo
[21:50] <BUGabundo> fta: thanks for the link :)
[21:50] <BUGabundo> I've read some of his past posts
[21:51] <BUGabundo> but this one was quite a nice reading
[21:51] <fta> i realized afterwards that it's from one of the devs i directly work with
[21:52] <fta> and i met in mountain view
[21:52] <BUGabundo> aha
[21:55] <fta> 1.3 GiB (3.39%) of 39.6 GiB
[21:55] <fta> lol, the beta ppa is small
[21:55] <BUGabundo> eheh
[22:01] <fta> http://google-opensource.blogspot.com/2009/12/introducing-namebench.html
[22:37] <fta> gcc bug 11203
[22:37] <fta> pff
[22:38] <fta> gnu bug 11203


[03:24] <lifeless> poolie: ping
[03:28] <poolie> hi
[03:28] <lifeless> can I ring?
[03:28] <poolie> apparently yes :)
[04:25] <grettke> Hi guys. Newbie question: When I create a mirror branch, I must first run init-repo. Doing so tells it to store new revisions in the src repo, not the branch. When I create a task branch, though, how does it know to keep revisions in the branch. I am confused about the role of init-repo...
[04:28] <Verterok> grettke: the init-repo creates a shared repository, where you 'll create/branch your feature branches
[04:29] <Verterok> grettke: maybe 'll help if you just see the shared repository as a revision storage
[04:29] <lifeless> grettke: init-repo creates a database for the bulk content to be stored in; all other commands operate on branches - pull works branch to branch
[04:30] <lifeless> grettke: runnning 'init-repo' is *entirely optional*. If you just want to mirror one branch of a project, don't bother with init-repo.
[04:31] <Verterok> lifeless: hi
[04:31] <lifeless> Verterok: hi :>
[04:31] <Verterok> thanks for the detailed explanation of shared repos :)
[04:32] <grettke> Verterok: Ok. So this is something like an optimization, don't check out the entire history for every single branch I want to create, since I should just do it once for the mirror and levergae that for branches of the mirror?
[04:33] <grettke> lifeless: I see. I'm looking at mirroring and then branching multiple projects.
[04:35] <grettke> Thanks guys.
[04:36] <lifeless> grettke: yes, shared repos are precisely an optimisation
[04:39] <grettke> Verterok and lifeless: What repo structure do you recommend for the "Team collaboration, distributed style" of development?
[04:44] <lifeless> grettke: any
[04:44] <lifeless> repo structure is orthogonal to workflow
[04:44] <grettke> lifeless: I see. We are all "used to" the svn style.
[04:47] <lifeless> grettke: svn conflates repository and branches
[04:47] <lifeless> grettke: workflow in bzr is focused purely on branches
[04:48] <lifeless> grettke: commonly every developer will have one or more repositories whereever they have branches
[04:52] <grettke> lifeless: So if there are two centralized projects, proj1 and proj2, then a developers run init-repo twice (creating separate directories) , one for each project?
[04:53] <grettke> lifeless: Why are centralized repos initialized with the --no-trees option?
[04:55] <lifeless> grettke: a developer could have one repo for both, or two repos, or one repo per branch - whatever suites their needs (multiple machines, etc etc)
[04:56] <lifeless> grettke: the --no-trees option is useful for wherever you won't be editing the source code
[04:57] <lifeless> grettke: central servers don't generally have people editing code on them :P
[04:57] <grettke> lifeless: Understood. Thank you. I just finished reading the user-guide, so I was dying to ask some questions.
[04:58] <grettke> lifeless: One good thing about SVN is that it will get people off of CVS and onto a Distributed VCS quickly ;)
[04:58] <lifeless> :P
[05:00] <grettke> lifeless: Here is what I mean: It is not radically different from CVS, and it "fixes" some things. If you dig into SVN more than superficially, and you learn how it works, the SECOND thing you will start asking for (the first is merge tracking) is "disconnected-commits".
[05:00] <grettke> lifeless: So I wasn't teasing, SVN lowers the barrier for CVS users!
[05:10] <grettke> Thanks lifeless, Verterok, goodbye.
[06:55]  * vila not really here, yet, but soon
[06:56] <lifeless> vila: thanks for your email
[06:56] <lifeless> vila: a bundle would have been better
[06:58] <lifeless> ok, night all
[07:26] <vila> hi all
[07:27] <vila> lifeless: sry, I keep forgetting that (my editor provides shelf-like features for bundles as well as any bzr command output)
[07:28] <vila> poolie: ping
[07:28] <beuno> mornin' vila
[07:28] <vila> hi beuno !
[07:29] <beuno> how's it going?
[07:32] <vila> better and better, mouth can open by 2cm in the morning, reaching 3 or 4cm in the evening, eating has become a possible alternative again :-)
[07:32] <poolie> hi vila
[07:33] <vila> hi poolie
[07:40] <vila> lifeless: If you pass around and have some minutes to spare, I'd like to chat a bit (not more than some minutes, I swear :)
[07:46] <gour> hi, do you recommend 'dive into python' book for learning the lang?
[07:46] <gour> (so we can help hacking bzr one day)
[07:51] <spiv> gour: its pretty good, IIRC.
[07:51] <spiv> gour: it might be slightly dated w.r.t. to current versions of Python, but probably not enough to matter.
[07:53] <gour> spiv: thanks. i was reading 'learning python' but it's kind a slow, although it covers 2.5 with the reference what 2.6/3.0 changes
[07:54] <spiv> gour: http://docs.python.org/tutorial/index.html isn't too bad either
[07:55] <spiv> gour: it depends a bit on the audience, I think.
[07:55] <gour> spiv: how much of the language is covered by tutorial?
[07:55] <gour> stuff like generators, decorators, new-classes etc.
[08:01] <spiv> gour: it covers generators, it doesn't cover decorators or new-style classes that I can see.
[08:02] <gour> spiv: thank you
[08:02] <spiv> (although new-style classes hardly warrant covering, except to say "unless you know what you're doing, always use 'class Foo(object):' rather than 'class Foo:', or use '__metaclass__ = type'".
[08:02] <spiv> )
[08:03] <gour> hmm, good to know
[08:03] <spiv> gour: http://docs.python.org/glossary.html may be another useful resource for a novice Pythonista.
[08:04] <spiv> gour: e.g. it gives a succint description of new-style class :)
[08:06] <gour> spiv: thanks a lot
[08:25] <chandlerc> do svn:externals work in bzr-svn?
[08:25] <gour> chandlerc: not (yet) :-(
[08:26] <chandlerc> k, i suspected as much
[08:26] <gour> that forces me to still fetch via svn :-/
[08:47] <jelmer> chandlerc, bzr-svn can't support externals atm since bzr itself doesn't have any feature they could be mapped to
[08:48] <chandlerc> jelmer: the sub-tree thing?
[08:48] <chandlerc> that may be an experimental feature that i was playing with, but it seemed a pretty direct mapping onto svn:externals
[08:48] <jelmer> chandlerc, subtrees always refer to a specific revision
[08:49] <jelmer> chandlerc, svn:externals can (and usually does) point at the latest revision
[08:49] <chandlerc> odd, from a subversion developer, i was told to only use svn:externals to point to a specific revision
[08:49] <chandlerc> because the other behavior isn't well defined (what version it points to isn't itself versioned)
[08:50] <lifeless> jelmer: subtrees can have policy to update to a newer rev according to the design
[08:50] <jelmer> chandlerc, sure, but they do support it and it's the most common behaviour
[08:50] <jelmer> *commonly used
[08:50] <lifeless> vila: hai, not really here
[08:50] <lifeless> vila: drop me a mail though
[08:51] <chandlerc> well, as all the projects I want to use externals in would use them locked at specific revisions... ;] any chance of partial implementation with those semantics?
[08:51] <vila> lifeless: ok, asap
[08:51] <jelmer> lifeless, sure, what I'm saying is that atm there is no such policy
[08:53] <jelmer> chandlerc, not likely while by-reference nested tree support is still experimental
[08:54] <chandlerc> k
[09:10] <vila> lifeless: email sent
[11:53] <bugabundo_work> hi
[11:54] <bugabundo_work> is it a good idea to use bzr as a TimeMachine?
[11:54] <bugabundo_work> I made two local repos on my machine
[11:54] <bugabundo_work> on for /etc and another for /home/me/
[11:54] <beuno> I don't think it is
[11:54] <beuno> it will blow up with large files
[11:55] <beuno> doesn't do binary deltas
[11:55] <beuno> etc etc et
[11:55] <bugabundo_work> I filtered *.avi *.mp3 and stuff
[11:55] <bugabundo_work> plus I'm just adding files by hand
[11:55] <bugabundo_work> not add . recursive
[11:56] <bugabundo_work> can that be the cause of
[11:56] <bugabundo_work> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/286266 ?
[11:57] <bugabundo_work> it crash every time on some PDFs
[11:57] <beuno> well, if it
[11:57] <beuno> it's for text files, maybe
[11:57] <beuno> still not sure if it's the best choice
[11:58] <luks> bugabundo_work: crashes in what way?
[11:59] <bugabundo_work> it gives a backtrace
[11:59] <bugabundo_work> its attached to the LP ticket
[12:00] <luks> hmm
[12:39] <g0ph3r> hi folks, i've just tried pushing one of my branches to an FTP server of my web hoster and got temporary ftp errors 451. digging in the bazaar bugs revealed bug #154259. this bug description indicates that the ftp append/restart commands may depend on the repository format (knit in this case). my question now is: could i workaround this issue by upgrading to a newer repository format?...
[12:39] <g0ph3r> ...anybody familiar with the ftp commands required by the different repository formats?
[12:52] <spiv> g0ph3r: the pack-0.92 format (which is the default in current releases) probably does avoid using append/restart over FTP.
[12:52] <g0ph3r> hm... upgraded a temp. branch of my branch to the 1.6.1-rich-root format but still got the same errors when trying to push to the FTP server... so it seems as if there's no easy workaround available :(
[12:52] <g0ph3r> spiv: thx, but my branch is already using pack-0.92 format...
[12:52] <spiv> g0ph3r: ah, 1.6.1-rich-root should behave the same as pack-0.92 in this respect, so I guess you're stuck.
[12:52]  * g0ph3r nods
[12:53] <g0ph3r> well, would have been nice...
[12:53] <spiv> There's a limit to what we can do to workaround broken FTP servers.
[12:53] <g0ph3r> yep, unfortunately, there probably even less i can do to convince my ISP to fix their server ;)
[13:51] <lifeless> vila: I replied
[13:53] <vila> lifeless: Me too, unless you replied again but then it's in the pipe
[16:06] <trotek> .
[16:22] <strk> so, it looks like bzr-gtk plugin makes X a requirement to even pull...
[16:22] <strk> apt-get remove --purge bzr-gtk # fixed it (I think I filed a bug already, just wanted to make sure, somebody here should have it assigned IIRC)
[16:23] <strk> ops, bzr-gtk didn't fix it, must be bzr-dbus
[16:25] <strk> yep, confirmed
[17:04] <dereine> can i export a certain update between 2 versions
[17:04] <dereine> so i can copy the update to another pc and merge it
[17:05] <beuno> dereine, bzr send -r rev1..rev2
[17:05] <beuno> should do it
[17:05] <beuno> unless you just want a diff
[17:05] <dereine> thx
[17:35] <vila> jam: ping
[17:35] <jam> vila: pong
[17:36] <vila> bug #279831 is back but a bit different
[17:37] <vila> Can we chat a bit about it in around 2 hours ?
[17:37] <jam> vila: it isn't back, it was never fixed
[17:37] <jam> bzr-gtk never accepted my patch
[17:38] <vila> ouch
[17:38] <jam> I'm not sure if it got enough visibility
[17:38] <jam> lifeless didn't really think it was worth patching bzr.dev, because it is really a bug in bzr-gtk that it was expecting exactly "True"
[17:39] <vila> I'm sure it isn't, but the new case make it worst as if the gap between commit and gcommit was growing
[17:40] <jam> anyway, I'm a bit here and gone because my son is sick, but if I'm around I'm happy to chat
[17:42] <vila> jam: ok
[17:42] <vila> take care of him
[18:11] <DimmuR> hello everyone - is it possible to configure bazaar to work only with passwords (for update to and from bzr) ?
[19:22] <eka> hi all
[19:35] <luks> jelmer: hi, is there any known workaround for https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr-svn/+bug/260416 ?
[20:54] <SmileyChris> does bzr have a command to apply a patch?
[20:54] <SmileyChris> (a diff)
[20:55] <LarstiQ> SmileyChris: `bzr patch` is in bzrtools
[20:56] <LarstiQ> SmileyChris: alternatively, the standalone patch utility will do too.
[20:56] <SmileyChris> LarstiQ: cheers, but the standalone one dosen't handle renames does it?
[20:56] <LarstiQ> SmileyChris: if you have a bundle instead of a patch, you can use `bzr pull` or `bzr merge`
[20:57] <LarstiQ> SmileyChris: if you have a plain patch produced by the diff program, that doesn't handle renames natively, no matter how you apply it.
[20:57] <SmileyChris> it's a diff from bzr
[20:57] <LarstiQ> SmileyChris: but you can use `bzr mv --after` to tell bzr about renames after they happened
[20:57] <LarstiQ> SmileyChris: produced in what way?
[20:57] <SmileyChris> bzr diff i guess
[20:57] <LarstiQ> SmileyChris: (or, can you show me the first 10 lines of it)
[20:58] <LarstiQ> SmileyChris: if `bzr diff` produced it, then it's in the same format as regular patch and diff, no added help from bzr there.
[20:58] <SmileyChris> ok, I'll just do the moves manually... thanks
[20:59] <SmileyChris> hrm, I can't - it says the new folder is not version
[20:59] <SmileyChris> *versioned
[20:59] <LarstiQ> SmileyChris: I don't know what situation produced this diff, but for distributing changes a bundle (produced by `bzr send`) is more useful
[20:59] <SmileyChris> i agree :)
[20:59] <SmileyChris> i'll let my colleague know
[21:00] <LarstiQ> SmileyChris: it complains about the new folder being unversioned even if you supply --after to mv?
[21:01] <SmileyChris> nah, I was just doing something wrong (didn't need --after)
[21:01] <LarstiQ> ok :)
[21:08] <dereine> how can i show which files changed, and not what changed
[21:11] <luks> dereine: bzr status
[21:11] <dereine> thx
[21:50] <guilhembi_> jam: hi! about https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr-gtk/+bug/279831, it says "fix committed", but committed where?
[21:52]  * LarstiQ looks at the activity log
[21:53] <balor> Will "bzr merge -r14..14 ../project-branch" cherrypick r14 from project-branch and merge it onto the cwd?
[21:55] <LarstiQ> balor: I'd use -c14
[21:55] <balor> LarstiQ: Thanks
[21:56] <LarstiQ> balor: or -r 13..14 if you want to provide a range
[21:57] <LarstiQ> guilhembi_: seems r3767 of bzr.dev
[21:57] <LarstiQ> or no
[21:57]  * LarstiQ mistyped the bug number
[21:58] <balor> Should cherry-picking retain the providence of the patch?
[21:58] <LarstiQ> balor: the what? :) Cherry-picking doesn't record as much information as would be nice.
[21:59] <balor> LarstiQ: The ancestory of the merged patch i.e. where it came from and its change history.  But I guess not.
[22:00] <LarstiQ> balor: correct, unfortunately.
[22:00] <LarstiQ> balor: could you clarify 'change history' also?
[22:01] <LarstiQ> probably different terminology, but it sounds intrigueing :)
[22:01] <balor> LarstiQ: I think I'm talking about the entire revision tree associated with the patch....which you probably don't want to merge over :)
[22:02] <LarstiQ> just noting which revision it was should be enough for filling in later, yes
[22:11] <abpend> Anybody here?
[22:17] <poolie_> yes
[22:18] <grettke> When you create a mirror branch, do you normally use checkout or branch, and why?
[22:18] <poolie_> i'd normally branch
[22:19] <poolie_> if you don't commit in it it doesn't make much difference though
[22:19] <abpend> My question: when setting up bazaar for a central-server workflow, how is access control typically handled on the server?
[22:30] <grettke> poolie_: Understood. The workflow I'm envisioning is that there is a mainline on a shared repo on the server, I create a branch locally, then I create a "task" branch of that and merge my changes to the trunk branch and vice versa.
[22:30] <grettke> poolie_: This is based on reading the user guide along with my desired workflow.
[22:37] <balor> Silly question...If I check out -r 7 (of say 17 revisions) into a new tree.  Is there any way to upgrade r7 to r8, and then to r9 (I'm thinking about demo'ing tutorial code).
[22:43] <poolie_> balor: "update" :)
[22:44] <balor> poolie_: But update doesn't take a --revision, it'll update to the latest revision not just the next (AFAIK)
[22:44] <poolie_> hm
[22:50] <lifeless> balor: pull -r 8 source
[22:50] <balor> lifeless: thanks
[23:14] <Peng_> Wow, YUI is big..
[23:15] <beuno> blame rockstar
[23:15]  * rockstar hides
[23:15] <rockstar> Wait, why am I being blamed for YUI being big?
[23:15] <beuno> yes
[23:16] <rockstar> Suddenly, everything is so clear now.
[23:20] <beuno> rockstar, so, loggerhead tomorrow?
[23:20] <lifeless> YUI?
[23:20] <rockstar> beuno, perhaps.  I need to finish up some personal projects.
[23:20] <rockstar> lifeless, Yahoo! UI library
[23:21] <beuno> rockstar, aiight, I'll catch up with my LH stuff either way
[23:21] <Peng_> lifeless: It's a really big JavaScript library.
[23:21] <beuno> I have a branch that's almost finished to user paths instead of fileids
[23:21] <mlh> people do like jquery - it's smaller
[23:21] <rockstar> beuno, Maybe we ought to get something really quick and hack for a few hours tomorrow night.
[23:22] <beuno> rockstar, oh, sure, that's what I had in mind.   However Launchpad is moving to YUI, so LH coincidentally is as well.
[23:22] <beuno> but there's no rush
[23:23] <mlh>   intewesting
[23:23] <Peng_> I think adding YUI made Loggerhead's repo 20% larger. :D
[23:23] <rockstar> beuno, yea, let's make it a plan then.
[23:24] <rockstar> Peng_, in all fairness, Mochikit will go away soon.
[23:24] <beuno> rockstar, deal
[23:24] <beuno> and, well, mootools is what's going away in LH
[23:24] <beuno> but yeah, lp is lossing mochikit
[23:24] <rockstar> Ah yes, that's what I meant.
[23:24] <beuno> loosing even
[23:25] <beuno> mootools isn't small either
[23:25] <rockstar> beuno, did you get an email from me?
[23:25] <Peng_> yui-min.js /is/ smaller than MooTools.
[23:25] <beuno> rockstar, gpg?
[23:26] <beuno> if that's what you mean, than no
[23:26] <beuno> oddly enough, I've just ogtten emails from people sending from other addresses than @canonical
[23:28] <beuno> anyways
[23:28] <beuno> off to bed
[23:28] <mlh> beuno: "losing" :-)


[14:21] <thinkstu> I'm trying to have ubuntu to beaglboard, every time I have the image in the SD card and reboot - the Beaglboard-Black got all leds on and hanged
[14:21] <thinkstu> any idea ?
[20:50] <wookey> so /win 25


[10:29] <Kiryat8> I want to write a TracCar client on touch phone that wakesup and sends its location to a server. I can not find anything on how to periodically wakeup an app
[10:30] <Kiryat8> My app has a button to manually send the location which works. Where can I find the APIs and lifecycle info?
[10:39] <mcphail> Kiryat8: there isn't a way to wakeup an app on Ubuntu Touch at present. You have to rely on frameworks for background processing, and many important frameworks don't exist
[11:22] <Kiryat8> Then how does the Clock alarm core app work?
[11:41] <mcphail> Kiryat8: there are background frameworks for some things, like alarms. Also, most of the core apps have "cheats" due to their blessed status which aren't available to ordinary devs like you and me
[11:42] <mcphail> Kiryat8: there were plans for a background GPS framework, but I don't know if it was ever completed
[11:43] <Kiryat8> For an OPEN phone os, in reality this is rather disappointing.  Worse than Android and even IOS
[11:44] <mcphail> Kiryat8: they've chonsen to prioritise security and battery-saving over functionality. It is a difficult balance, and I think they've taken things a little too far. You can write your app for the Open Store, though, which has fewer restrictions
[11:46] <Kiryat8> How can I write without knowing the API? Maybe I can look at the clock app code...
[11:54] <mcphail> Kiryat8: Before you commit time to your app, I'd advise you ask on the mailing list whether the functionality you require is present or pending. My impression is that the existsing frameworks are not going to be expanded until snappy arrives on the phone
[11:55] <Kiryat8> thanks