[00:00] <igc> bialix: I'll build and upload the latest chm files today - you'll like them
[00:01] <bialix> jam: while you still here: igc has new special branch for building windows installer
[00:01] <bialix> igc: maybe it worth to put them into bzr branch
[00:02] <bialix> it seems I'm in black list of jam
[00:03] <igc> bialix: we recently agreed on the list that windows packaging didn't belong in the bzr core
[00:03] <garyvdm> jam: What version of qbzr did you use? I hope 0.14.1
[00:03] <bialix> igc: I don't understand about translations
[00:03] <garyvdm> bialix: http://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/qbzr/0.14/0.14.1/+download/qbzr-setup-0.14.1.exe
[00:03] <igc> bialix: I need to finish and package explorer 0.8
[00:03] <bialix> garyvdm: please, merge 0.14 branch into trunk
[00:03] <igc> and put it in new installer
[00:04] <garyvdm> bialix: I did I forgot to push :-(
[00:04] <igc> bialix: then we can call for translations
[00:04] <igc> bialix: then package those translations in 0.8.1 and ship that with 2.0.0
[00:04] <bialix> igc: if by package you mean cut out tarball then I can do it for you after I'll update translations. or you prefer to release 0.8.1 later?
[00:04] <igc> bialix: though 0.8 might be called explorer 1.0beta1
[00:04] <garyvdm> bialix: Done.
[00:05] <igc> and 0.8.1 might be called explorer 1.0
[00:05] <bialix> igc: ok, I understand your plan now
[00:05] <bialix> release 0.8, test installer, release 0.8.1 right before 2.0 final
[00:05] <bialix> igc: ^ right?
[00:05] <igc> bialix: my primary focus is getting explorer and chms into installer
[00:06] <bialix> ok ok
[00:06] <bialix> garyvdm: jam uses qbzr trunk
[00:06] <igc> bialix: explorer gets a few 100 downloads each release
[00:06] <igc> bialix: bzr 1.13 got 35k downloads
[00:06] <bialix> garyvdm: but now igc's installer stuff will rule the world
[00:06] <bialix> mwhaa mwhaa mwhaa
[00:06] <garyvdm> haha
[00:07] <igc> bialix: so getting explorer 'in the box' is essential
[00:07] <igc> to ramping up it's adoption
[00:07] <bialix> igc: ok, I've groked your idea already
[00:07] <igc> "Bazaar Explorer wins hands down over RapidSVN" - latest quote received overnight
[00:07] <bialix> ok ok ok
[00:08] <bialix> hands down?
[00:08] <garyvdm> igc: will we get a start menu short cut for explorer?
[00:08] <bialix> it means easy?
[00:08] <garyvdm> bialix: whats happening with bzrw.exe?
[00:08] <igc> garyvdm: that's the plan
[00:08] <bialix> garyvdm: oh! we definitely should create shortcut
[00:09] <bialix> aaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh
[00:09] <garyvdm> bialix: "Bazaar Explorer wins *easily* over RapidSVN"
[00:09] <bialix> there's too much little thing here and there
[00:09] <bialix> igc: I hope I won't forget all of them
[00:09] <bialix> garyvdm: thx
[00:10] <igc> bialix: well I'd be fixing many explorer little things today if I was doing the installer instead!
[00:10] <bialix> igc: you should be proud
[00:10] <igc> we should be proud - I'm a small part
[00:11] <bialix> you wrote most of it
[00:11] <bialix> ohloh said line count of explorer codebase is roughly the same as qbzr
[00:11] <igc> bialix: right, but epxlorer is a small part compared to bzr core and qbzr and ...
[00:11] <bialix> just numbers
[00:11] <igc> it's just the bit people *see*
[00:11] <bialix> don't be so shy
[00:12]  * bialix waits for new quote: bzr-explorer wins hands down over TortoiseBzr
[00:12] <bialix> :-#
[00:12] <igc> :-)
[00:13] <igc> bialix: the bigger question is, does it win over tortoise-hg?
[00:13] <bialix> so, igc, 2am here, and soon I'm going to sleep.
[00:13] <bialix> igc: honestly?
[00:13] <igc> bialix: good night - chat in 8 hours or so
[00:13] <bialix> yes, +8 hours from now
[00:14] <bialix> hg beats as almost everywhere -- this is my opinion
[00:14] <poolie> hello all
[00:14] <bialix> garyvdm: thanks for releasing 0.14.1
[00:14] <igc> hi poolie
[00:14] <bialix> garyvdm: now we should ask for updating karmic?
[00:14] <poolie> good night bialix
[00:15] <bialix> poolie: hi and gnight
[00:15] <garyvdm> bialix: Yes will do
[00:15] <bialix> garyvdm: you rock
[00:15] <bialix> igc: you too
[00:15] <bialix> and sidnei and all all all
[00:15] <bialix> gnight
[00:15] <garyvdm> bialix: so do you
[00:15] <sidnei> bialix: thanks!
[00:15] <garyvdm> night
[00:16] <garyvdm> Hi poolie
[00:16] <poolie> hi
[00:24] <moldy> hi
[00:24] <moldy> does bzr have equivalents to submission keywords such as HEAD?
[00:30] <lifeless> morning poolie
[00:39]  * igc away from IRC and email for a few hours
[00:40] <zsquareplusc> moldy: are you looking for this? http://doc.bazaar-vcs.org/bzr.dev/en/user-guide/index.html#specifying-revisions
[00:41] <moldy> zsquareplusc: not quite, i think
[00:42] <moldy> zsquareplusc: i am looking for an easier way to say "show me the last committed change"
[00:42] <moldy> zsquareplusc: something like "bzr di -c tip"
[00:42] <zsquareplusc> then revno:-1 should help
[00:42] <garyvdm> moldy: bzr log -l 1
[00:43] <moldy> garyvdm: not quite what i am looking for
[00:43] <garyvdm> what is di short for?
[00:44] <moldy> diff
[00:44] <garyvdm> moldy: bzr diff -c -1
[00:44] <garyvdm> -1 = tip
[00:45] <moldy> ok, that works
[00:46] <moldy> bzr di -c last:
[00:46] <moldy> works, too :) thanks
[00:47] <lifeless> jam: using something with a non C-guaranteed backend would be good for testing
[00:47] <lifeless> jam: e.g. 'anything with write(bytes)'
[00:47] <igc> poolie: NEWS in 2.0.0 still says 2.0rc2 and 1.18.1 aren't released yet
[00:48] <poolie> hi
[00:48] <poolie> on phone
[00:48] <poolie> in 2.0 or 2.0.0?
[00:48] <igc> poolie: 2.0.0
[00:48] <poolie> hm ok, i'll check
[00:48] <poolie> it might have bounced from pqm
[00:48] <igc> or I might be brain dead
[00:49] <lifeless> 1.18.1 isn't something I'd really expect 2.0.0 to mention :)
[00:49] <igc> poolie: sorry, me brain dead
[00:50] <igc> lifeless: just in the NEWS file which becomes the Release Notes, of course
[00:51] <igc> lifeless: chapter tile was "1.18.1 NOT RELEASED YET"
[00:51] <igc> lifeless: tends to stand out :-)
[00:51] <lifeless> igc: oh
[01:20] <garyvdm> Night all.
[01:22] <poolie> igc: in 2.0.0? i thought i fixed that
[01:38] <igc> poolie: you did. I just needed to pull your change down locally
[01:52] <poolie> jam, nice work on Keys()
[01:53] <poolie> spiv, around?
[01:58] <lifeless> poolie: call?
[01:58] <poolie> 1m
[01:59] <spiv> poolie: I am, although my ADSL apparently may not be :(
[02:05] <zsquareplusc> is it possible to merge two independent branches into one (i.e. have 2 separate CVS modules converted, that should go together)
[02:06] <spiv> zsquareplusc: "bzr merge -r0..-1 ../other-branch"
[02:07] <zsquareplusc> ah, you have to use a range :-) i just tried single revisions. thanks spiv
[02:55]  * Pilky collapses
[02:55] <Pilky> if anyone is interested, I've just released version 0.1 of my Objective-C Bazaar API: https://launchpad.net/objective-bzr
[03:12] <AfC> Endless struggle, release at 4am, die of heart attack.
[03:12] <AfC> That's always a good sign. Usually good code comes from that.
[03:43] <fullermd> AfC: So...   good software clogs the arteries?
[03:44] <AfC> fullermd: Well, you know they gave it their all. Sacrificing for the cause.
[03:44] <lifeless> so much for non zero sum
[03:44] <fullermd> Either that, or they didn't want to have to deal with support...
[03:48]  * igc lunch
[05:35] <lifeless> jam: bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~lifeless/meliae/strip_duplicates/
[05:40] <lifeless> poolie: those mails are on my plate, will finish this evening approx; EODing till then more or less, meeting family in town.
[05:40] <poolie> k
[06:11] <poolie>     435 class GlobalConfig(IniBasedConfig):
[06:11] <poolie>     436     """The configuration that should be used for a specific location."""
[06:11] <poolie> why?
[06:11] <poolie> that seems like it's not global
[06:22] <spiv> poolie: "global" in the sense that it's per-user rather than per-branch?
[06:23] <spiv> I agree that it's confusing.
[06:23] <poolie> it doesn't seem like it's used for a specific location?
[06:23] <poolie> leaving aside it being per-user not per-machine
[06:23] <poolie> or per-planet ;)
[06:37] <jml> only functions on the Material Plane
[06:42] <poolie> :)
[07:00] <vila> hi all
[07:38] <vila> Can I have some feedback on shell-like tests ? No feedback is hard to interpret...
[07:47] <poolie> hi vila
[07:47] <poolie> yes i'll read it today, soon
[07:48] <vila> poolie: great ! The merge thought will help me in the next half-hour :-D
[07:48]  * vila-dentist afk for ~1/2h
[07:50] <poolie> 'mere'?
[07:50] <poolie> good luck
[07:56] <fullermd> I hope so.  Combining merge thoughts with dentists doesn't help *ME*...
[08:21] <poolie> spiv, still around? does bug 427736 mean anything to you? i'm apparently getting xml inventories in what's meant to be a chk stream
[08:28] <bialix> igc: hi again
[08:28] <poolie> hi bialix
[08:29] <bialix> poolie: I have question for you
[08:29] <bialix> and hi
[08:29] <poolie> hi
[08:29] <bialix> poolie: I'd like to have some logo for QBzr
[08:29] <poolie> i mean, sure, go ahead
[08:29] <bialix> but I'm not very good in computer graphics
[08:30] <bialix> recent incredible work on b-v.o site redesign makes me think it will be cool to have the help here
[08:30] <igc> hi bialix
[08:30] <bialix> poolie: is it possible?
[08:31] <bialix> igc: so after some hours of sleep I think I should focusing on inno setup installer script improvements
[08:31] <poolie> bialix: i think so
[08:31] <poolie> we can probably get someone in canonical's graphic design group to help
[08:31] <poolie> but they're pretty busy
[08:32] <bialix> poolie: cool, I have couple of ideas for logo, but then good designer need to improve it
[08:32] <bialix> heh
[08:32] <spiv> poolie: it sounds like the bug that jam fixed recently that I encountered doing the inventory streaming work
[08:32] <poolie> can you send a mail to me and beuno with your thoughts?
[08:32] <bialix> poolie: it means you're positive but not sure
[08:33] <poolie> i'm sure they would be happy to help but it might be hard to get to the front of their queue
[08:33] <poolie> spiv, yes, it does, i thought we'd squashed these though
[08:33] <spiv> poolie: specifically, that CHK repositories were generating XML inventories when you called some APIs
[08:33] <bialix> poolie: I can draw by hands and then send my sketch to qbzr ml and cc you and beuno, yes
[08:33] <spiv> Right.
[08:33] <poolie> this seems to be the opposite
[08:33] <poolie> or not precisely opposite
[08:33] <igc> bialix: the buildout recipes for explorer and the chm files are done now
[08:33] <poolie> if we can give them the concept it should be faster
[08:33] <spiv> poolie: well, what are the bzr versions involved?
[08:33] <igc> bialix: grab rev 7
[08:34] <spiv> LP is involved, I think, which is probably still running an affected version?
[08:34] <poolie> spiv, the tip of 2.0 here, and
[08:34] <poolie> yeah, that may be so
[08:34] <bialix> igc: so for CHM stuff I think I should add separate items for each language, so users can select what they want to have installed
[08:35] <spiv> poolie: bzr ping claims lp uses 1.17
[08:35] <poolie> interesting
[08:35] <spiv> poolie: which is affected IIRC.
[08:35] <poolie> :/
[08:36] <bialix> igc: so we put chm docs in C:\Program Files\Bazaar\docs just instead of old html, right?
[08:37] <spiv> poolie: yes, IIRC jam fixed this as part of the 'bzr send of 2a' bug, which NEWS says was fixed in 1.18rc1
[08:37] <igc> bialix: I think so. Either there are directly in the Bazaar directory
[08:37]  * spiv makes a note of that on the bug
[08:37] <poolie> thanks
[08:40] <bialix> igc: so my plan is following: I'm update bzr.iss script for 2.0 and will update buildout receipe to override the one in bzr sources, so installer will be built from our tweaked script
[08:40] <bialix> igc: post 2.0 we can continue extract things (like py2exe) to your separate branch
[08:40] <igc> bialix: excellent
[08:40] <vila> poolie: lol, yeah 'mere' interesting freudian slip :)
[08:40] <igc> bialix: today i've ...
[08:41] <bialix> I hope to finish installer during weekend and then we need jam to build new rc installer so I can test it with TBZR
[08:41] <igc> built the help, updated the TODO and added the recipes for epxlorer/xmloutput/upload and CHM files
[08:41] <igc> bialix: sounds good
[08:42] <igc> bialix: I'll work on getting explorer 0.8 done over the weekend - no time for that today
[08:42] <bialix> igc: so I'll update translations ;-)
[08:43] <igc> bialix: I've updated the buildout recipes to pull in qbzr 0.14.1 as well
[08:43] <bialix> ok
[08:43] <bialix> igc: we need to look at buildout improvements made by jam in bzr.dev/2.0
[08:44]  * bialix found intermediate result of buildout layout awful
[08:45] <bialix> last question to bzr experts: is it possible to get overall size of the branch repo (in MiB) via remote dumb/smart transport?
[08:45] <bialix> this morning I'm thinking about resumable branch/pull/push
[08:46] <igc> bialix: time to go - family stuff to do for next few hours
[08:46] <bialix> I can write simple hack to pull in small portions
[08:46] <bialix> igc: bye
[08:46] <igc> bialix: thanks for your help!
[08:46] <igc> poolie, spiv, vila, all: have a good weekend
[08:46] <igc> night all
[08:46] <poolie> igc, you too!
[08:46] <vila> igc: g'night and good week-end !
[08:46] <poolie> spiv, in this kind of case i'd like to teach bzr to blacklist that op on that server
[08:46] <bialix> ditto from me
[08:47] <poolie> on 1.17 i mean
[08:48] <bialix> poolie: what is correct branch for 2.0rc2? lp:bzr/2.0 or some other?
[08:48] <vila> bialix: I think you need to get the size of the packs, I don't remember an API for that (and that will still not get you the size of the indices...)
[08:49] <bialix> poolie: or https://code.launchpad.net/~bzr-pqm/bzr/2.0.0?
[08:49] <poolie> bzr/2.0.0
[08:49] <poolie> see my mail 'branchs, bugs... 2.0'
[08:49] <vila> bialix: lp:bzr-repodetails certainly contains interesting stuff in that regard
[08:49] <bialix> ok
[08:51] <bialix> vila: can I talk with you about my idea with plugin of resumable pull/push?
[08:51] <vila> bialix: hmm, it you want to make it a plugin, then I think the effort will be better spent making the core resumable,
[08:52] <vila> what accidental scenarios do you want to address ?
[08:52] <bialix> pulling/pushing a very big branches is several steps automatically
[08:53] <vila> can they be recognize by bzr and acted upon (ctrl-C, network connection loss sound possible to address)
[08:53] <bialix> so if connection breaks or just time out user can resume it later
[08:53] <bialix> s/is several steps/in several steps/
[08:54] <bialix> last night there was mini discussion about resumable pull in core
[08:54] <vila> bialix: I understand the approach, I'm wondering about what could be done in core to make it useless :)
[08:54] <vila> Oh, I missed that then
[08:54] <bialix> the short answer: bzr would like to do it but can't
[08:54] <vila> oh, ok, I'm late in the game then ;)
[08:54] <bialix> can't today because it's not clear how ideal solution should work
[08:55] <bialix> vila: you can check irclogs from the point when we started talking about git
[08:55] <bialix> jam, lifeless and jelmer talking
[08:55] <vila> I will do that later eventually, or do you think I need to read it to talk about your plugin ?
[08:55] <bialix> something about atomic insert prevents to have it in the core
[08:56] <vila> bialix: Hmm, I can imagine it's not trivial, especially with gc
[08:56] <bialix> well, basically I want to talk my idea and have someone who listen and critize
[08:56] <vila> bialix: shoot then :)
[08:57] <bialix> criticize
[08:57] <bialix> you already started doing this ;-)
[08:57] <bialix> so main idea is automatically get last_revision info from remote repo and then divide pull into smaller steps
[08:57] <vila> right, but if it can't be done in core, then pulling by steps is the next best thing
[08:57] <bialix> like pull by 100 revisions at once
[08:58] <bialix> I'm just would like to know the size of remote repo
[08:58] <bialix> not only number of mainline revisions
[08:58] <vila> bialix: I would go with a simple --step parameter and leave the user in control (use 128 or 256 as default value)
[08:58] <bialix> hmm, maybe
[08:59] <bialix> just for fat branch of 200 revisions and overall repo size of several GiB I'd like to step in smaller delta
[08:59] <vila> I think there are too much criteria to take into account to make educated guesses: repo size, bandwidth, latency, connection quality, server robustness, server load, etc
[08:59] <bialix> yep
[09:00] <vila> so in the end, only the user, at a given time (and even...) can roughly guess what is the "right" step
[09:00] <bialix> well, I imagine such plugin can measure how long each steps and then do some prediciton?
[09:00] <fullermd> It seems like with the current structure it would be hard to work in granularities other than revision.
[09:00] <vila> What you can add, though. is say: if it doesn't complete in 5mins, break it and try again with a smaller --step
[09:00] <bialix> vila: actually I've struggled last night with buildout and its desire to get fresh copy of bzr branch from lp
[09:00] <fullermd> (though there are *BIG* advantages to being able to do so, even aside from this incremental question)
[09:01] <vila> fullermd: A balance between #revisions, elapsed time, yes
[09:01] <bialix> vila: so some sort of auto adjusting of step will be nice, so I can have stepped-branch command aliased to plain branch and use it automatically all the time
[09:02] <fullermd> Yah.  But as long as things currently work as they do, when the bulk of the size is the 5 gig first revision, nothing will help.
[09:02] <bialix> vila: to use it with tools like buildout
[09:02] <vila> bialix: I encounter such problems with the botnet and had to set the timeout to 1h and use a shared repo (where possible)
[09:02] <bialix> fullermd: yes
[09:02] <vila> fullermd: sure
[09:02] <fullermd> (luckily, that's relatively rare)
[09:02] <vila> fullermd: and then the answer is: Don't do that !
[09:03] <fullermd> That's too facile an answer in the DVCS world sometimes   :|
[09:03] <bialix> vila: also about stepped-branch: I should branch exactly one revision from remote to get correct branch/repo format and then start stepped-pull
[09:03] <vila> Frankly, who will try to use Mosiac to go to say.. Facebook ?
[09:03] <fullermd> Dunno.  Why would you use ANYTHING to go to Facebook?
[09:03] <bialix> fullermd: vila: lol, I never laughed so loudly from your Mosaic experiments
[09:03] <vila> fullermd: I hate that answer, but sometimes that's the only reasonable one, see example above
[09:04] <bialix> fullermd: while you're here: do you plan to build 1.18.1 package for bsd? I want to update bzr on my hosting
[09:04] <vila> bialix: There is a very serious idea behind these experiments nevertheless ... backward compatibility
[09:04] <fullermd> With 2.0 so close, and the major change being on Windows, I hadn't planned to.
[09:04] <bialix> fullermd: ok, so I'm stick with 1.18
[09:05] <fullermd> Wait...  there was serious reason behind it?  I was just doing it for S&G...
[09:05] <vila> bialix: you use FreeBSD on your hosting ???
[09:05] <fullermd> Why stuck?
[09:05] <vila> S&G ?
[09:05] <bialix> well, my hosting provider run freebsd
[09:05] <bialix> wair a sec
[09:05] <fullermd> (i.e., why wouldn't 2.0 be good 'nuff?)
[09:06] <bialix> fullermd: how can I get os version?
[09:06] <fullermd> uname -a
[09:06] <bialix> from command-line
[09:06] <vila> bialix: uname -a
[09:06] <vila> :-D
[09:06] <fullermd> vila: Shi...   stuff & Giggles
[09:06] <bialix> FreeBSD donkey.tophost.com.ua 6.2-RELEASE-p9 FreeBSD 6.2-RELEASE-p9 #1: Thu Jan  3 17:39:10 EET 2008
[09:06] <johnf1> poolie: do you want me to repush that branch or did you merge it another way?
[09:07] <vila> fullermd: So, 'uname -a' tells you about the base system, but what about ports ?
[09:07] <fullermd> Well, there isn't a "ports version"; there are only versions of individual ports.  So you'd have to look at the ones you care about.
[09:08]  * vila frowns
[09:08] <vila> fullermd: I was expecting better :-/
[09:08] <bialix> vila: repodetails plugin does not work for lp:bzr
[09:08] <bialix> vila: should I file a bug?
[09:08] <vila> bialix: certainly
[09:08] <vila> bialix: it's very surprising given it has been developed *for* bzr.dev and used mainly there
[09:09] <spiv> poolie: 2.0 does blacklist that op
[09:09] <vila> s/*for* bzr.dev/& first
[09:09] <fullermd> Well, I guess you could import the ports tree from CVS into bzr and use the head's revno as some sort of overarching version...  not sure what information that would actually communicate though.
[09:09] <bialix> AssertionError: Don't know how to process RemoteRepository(bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~bzr-pqm/bzr/bzr.dev/.bzr/)
[09:10] <vila> fullermd: some sort of equivalent of the distros releases
[09:10] <spiv> poolie: or rather, it will give a UnknownMethod response to that particular request because it knows the client won't be able to use the stream.
[09:10] <vila> bialix: ha right, use sftp then
[09:10] <fullermd> I mean, what does "ports version" matter; you care about what version Apache or Firefox or bzr is.
[09:10] <vila> fullermd: a single data point is easier to grasp
[09:10] <fullermd> Well, if he's got bzr 1.18, I'm confident he doesn't have a ports tree shipped with 6.2   :p
[09:10] <vila> even if (of course) less precise
[09:11] <vila> fullermd: sure, don't pretend you didn't understand my question ;-)
[09:11] <bialix> vila: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr-repodetails/+bug/427751
[09:11] <Lo-lan-do> Someone correct me if I'm wrong… with bzr's 2a format, performances for the long operations are more CPU-bound than I/O-bound, right?
[09:11] <Lo-lan-do> (Not talking start-up time here)
[09:11] <bialix> vila: use sftp then is not option sometimes
[09:11] <vila> Lo-lan-do: ETOOGENERAL
[09:12] <fullermd> vila: I'm not sure I really _do_...   what are you looking for?  "$DATE of last time I updated my ports tree"?
[09:12] <Lo-lan-do> vila: Fair enough.  Let's restrict to "bzr check", for instance.
[09:12] <fullermd> Most of my long bzr operations have been CPU-bound since 0.6.2...
[09:12] <vila> fullermd: somethinh like that yes, "Is it a two years old install or a recent one"
[09:13] <vila> Lo-lan-do: still a bit hard to answer :-/ Let say that most of the operations are faster and the repositories smaller than with previous formats
[09:14] <Lo-lan-do> I'm probably going to recommend a nightly or weekly bzr check at a client's if I can get them to switch to bzr, but since they have large (CVS) repos it may take some time.
[09:14] <vila> From there, we do less IO, so it doesn't always translate into more CPU
[09:14] <fullermd> Yeah, I don't think of check as IO bound.  I've got repos under 20 megs that take several minutes to check; might be IO bound on a floppy, but...
[09:15] <bialix> vila: and last one about stepped operations: I can save result of latest step in the branch.conf so user can use stepped-continue to continue. something like rebase doing. does it sound as more or less make sense?
[09:15] <vila> bialix: as long as user can still override from command-line, yes,
[09:15] <bialix> override what?
[09:16] <vila> the branch.conf value
[09:16] <bialix> why for?
[09:16] <Lo-lan-do> Good.  Next question: when working in bound branches (or pushing to a bzr+ssh server), most of the CPU-intensive stuff is avoided on the server, right?
[09:16] <vila> but are you sure you will always have a branch.conf to start with ?
[09:16] <Lo-lan-do> And the shared repo on the server "only" has to repack from time to time?
[09:16] <bialix> vila: I mean I've pulled 200 revs from 100. I save this counter and name of operation (pull). Then run `bzr stepped-continue` to continue
[09:17] <bialix> vila: yes, for stepped-branch is most logical step is to create local branch with 1 revision inside
[09:17] <bialix> vila: so basically stepped-branch op is: branch REMOTE_URL -r1; bzr stepped-pull
[09:18] <vila> bialix: that sounds fine with standalone brances, but what about shared repos ?
[09:18] <bialix> and what about shared repos?
[09:18] <bialix> bzr working at branch level
[09:19] <bialix> shared repo is behind the scene
[09:19] <bialix> stepped-pull will be like this: for i in range(1, LAST_REVNO, STEP): bzr pull -r i..i+STEP
[09:20] <bialix> stepped push is similar
[09:21] <vila> bialix: with shared repos stepped pull makes more sense for the revisions you don't have yet
[09:22] <bialix> vila: is not they will be skipped automatically?
[09:22] <bialix> vila: I have good results of invoking run_bzr and run actual CLI bzr commands (in scmproj) for doing stuff
[09:22] <bialix> vila: I'd prefer to not dive into bzrlib API
[09:23] <bialix> then I can write such stepped plugin very quickly
[09:23] <vila> bialix: they will succeed by virtue of not involving problematic operations :)
[09:23] <bialix> I'm not quite understand, can you re-phrase?
[09:24] <bialix> vila: ^
[09:25] <vila> If I branch bzr.dev in a shared repo and bzr step-branch 2.0, almost all revisions are already in the repo
[09:25] <vila> most of the steps can't fail since there is nothing to pull
[09:25]  * bialix bbl, sorry
[09:25] <vila> bialix: You may well ignore that
[09:42] <vila> Right, google calendar unreachable for more than 2 hours, imminent death of the net ?
[09:43] <Kamping_Kaiser> mine works </unhelpful>
[09:43] <vila> Damn, no, same mistake than a couple of days ago: when *redirected* to an error page, *don't* hit refresh :-(
[09:43] <Lo-lan-do> Only the part of the net whose users think google==net
[09:48] <fullermd> Wait...  you mean Google isn't the whole Interblog?
[09:53] <vila> Lo-lan-do: you mean you're not aware that Google owns most of the black fiber ?
[09:55] <Lo-lan-do> I use yoghurt cans and string for my Internetz.
[09:55] <fullermd> Oh, no wonder you come through all muddled.
[09:55] <fullermd> You gotta stick with coffee cans, man.
[09:56] <Lo-lan-do> A bzr check tells me I have 7 inconsistent parents.  Should I worry?  Could bzr reconcile fix that?
[09:57] <fullermd> I'd have a little chat with Mom and the mailman, myself...
[09:57] <fullermd> But yah, reconcile fixes that.
[09:57] <Lo-lan-do> (I've learned that ghost revisions can be safely ignored so I won't bother you about that)
[09:58] <Lo-lan-do> Here goes a reconcile then.
[09:58]  * fullermd still wishes the two could be combined.
[09:59] <fullermd> I want a combination check/reconcile/pack/garbagecollect, so I can fire off a "bzr makemybranchallneatandtidy" before I go to bed, and wake up knowing that it's as good as it can be.
[10:00]  * Lo-lan-do concurs
[10:01] <Lo-lan-do> Um.  There's a garbagecollect now?
[10:01] <fullermd> Well, no.  That's one reason I want it   :p
[10:01] <Lo-lan-do> Ah.
[10:02] <Lo-lan-do> I had started working on it at FOSDEM with one of you guys, but it never went anywhere.
[10:03] <Lo-lan-do> I forget who it was, possibly Odd_Bloke.
[10:05] <fullermd> Sure wasn't me.  I don't do python.  Or FOSDEM, for that matter.
[13:04] <bialix> fullermd: ping
[13:16] <Lo-lan-do> Blah. After a bzr reconcile, I no longer have inconsistent parents, but I still have a few sha1 mismatches.  Any way to fix that, or is my repo seriously corrupted?
[13:19] <Lo-lan-do> It seems they're all on revisions coming from svn. I'll see if I can get rid of them by doing a fresh checkout.
[13:51] <garyvdm> Hi vila
[13:52] <vila> hey garyvdm !
[13:54] <vila> garyvdm: your example in #427773 is bogus, what we care about is how we end up with a limbo dir :)
[13:55] <vila> oh, right, there is a cascading bug too
[13:55] <vila> but let's search the root cause anyway, this should never happen and identify a real problem
[13:57] <Lo-lan-do> Is there a way to find out exactly where in the DAG ghost revisions are?
[14:02] <garyvdm> vila: Please can you give me a pointer. I want t write a test for bug 427773. I want to run bzrlib.merge.Merge3Merger.do_merge with a limbo dir, and check that it unlocks.
[14:02] <garyvdm> vila: I'm not sure where to put this test, and should I test other Merger classes?
[14:04] <vila> garyvdm: can you read me ?
[14:08] <jam> garyvdm: when I was playing with building the installer 1.14.1 didn't exist yet. I'll certainly use it for the final rc2 build
[14:08] <jam> morning vila
[14:08] <vila> morning jam !
[14:13] <garyvdm> vila: Hi
[14:13] <vila> garyvdm: can you read me ?
[14:13]  * vila thinks garyvdm has net problems that makes this channel a write-only medium :-/
[14:15] <garyvdm> My irc is very flaky
[14:15] <garyvdm> vila: I think I know what is causing bug 427773. I'm writing a test to confirm it.
[14:15] <vila> garyvdm: Good
[14:16] <vila> garyvdm: I'm still interested by what *caused* the limbo dir creation
[14:16] <vila> garyvdm: but no need to leave the branch locked, so your fix will be welcome anyway
[14:32] <ChrisW> Does TortoiseBzr form part of the linux and macos distributions of bzr?
[14:37] <vila> ChrisW: Nope, it's a windows only thing
[14:37] <vila> ChrisW: bzr-explorer is considered a better alternative, and that is available (or shoudl be) for all platforms
[14:39] <ChrisW> meh, I desktop integration... guess I'll look at TortoiseHg instead ;-)
[14:42] <vila> haa, nothing like a good and opened discussion.... :-/
[14:42] <Pilky> lol
[14:43] <Pilky> vila: if he waited a few days i'd have a 0.1 of a native Mac client out
[14:43] <Pilky> his loss :p
[14:44] <vila> Pilky: tortoisebzr on mac ? great ! Is that a fork of the existing lp project or do you sync with naoki ?
[14:44] <Pilky> heh not tortoisebzr
[14:44] <Pilky> completely new client from scratch
[14:44] <jam> james_w: are you looking into why the ppa builds started failing?
[14:44] <Pilky> one I tried starting ages ago but gave up on
[14:45] <vila> Pilky: a standalone app then ?
[14:45] <Pilky> yep
[14:45] <Pilky> I release 0.1 of an Objective-C framework for talking to bzr last night, I'm working on 0.1 of the app this weekend
[14:45] <vila> Pilky: he said disktop integration and by this I think he meant finder-integration in mac vocabulary
[14:45] <Pilky> yeah
[14:46] <Pilky> probably
[14:53] <garyvdm> Hi vila. Sorry - my irc is very flaky, so I am now using http://www.web-irc.org/..
[14:53] <jam> igc: are you still around?
[14:54] <igc> hi jam
[14:54] <jam> hey igc
[14:54] <jam> you know, you should really sleep... but since you are up
[14:54] <garyvdm> vilia: I saw what you said here: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/09/11/%23bzr.html
[14:54] <jam> the ppa builds are failing with: cp: cannot stat `debian/tmp/doc/_static/en/quick-reference/bzr-quick-reference.pdf': No such file or directory
[14:54] <jam> do you know what changed there?
[14:54] <igc> jam: yep :-)
[14:54] <igc> name is now ...
[14:55] <igc> bzr-en-quick-reference.pdf
[14:55] <vila> garyvdm: I also said (later): your fix is good, we want your fix :)
[14:55] <igc> jam: if you look in http://doc.bazaar-vcs.org/test/downloads/pdf-en/ say, you'll see ...
[14:56] <igc> that all the pdfs use that convention so I tweaked the quikc refs to follow it too
[14:56] <garyvdm> vila: Ok - did not see that - thanks
[14:57] <garyvdm> vila: Are the tests ok?
[14:57] <vila> garyvdm: I don't know, I've yet to see your patch, I was talking about the principle of your fix
[14:57] <vila> garyvdm: we want your fix AND we want to understand why bialix encounter the problem in the first place
[14:58] <vila> i.e. what is the 'mkdir limbo' in his case
[14:58] <garyvdm> vila: I see.
[14:58] <vila> garyvdm: pew, finally :-)
[14:58] <igc> ChrisW: bzr-explorer is shipping on windows, gnome, kde and os x and working well on each
[14:58] <vila> igc: He left...
[14:58] <garyvdm> vila: My fix is here: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~garyvdm/bzr/Bug427773/+merge/11601
[14:59] <igc> vila: thanks
[14:59] <vila> igc: and he want desktop integration aka tortoise and nothing else (that's how I understand him at least, since he didn't stay to say)
[15:00] <igc> vila: ok
[15:00] <jam> vila: the bug gary posted, I believe the original 'mkdir limbo' was a bzr merge that got interrupted by a power outage
[15:00] <jam> at least, from his follow up post
[15:00] <jam> if updating the workingtree fails badly, we leave stuff like limbo around
[15:00] <jam> it doesn't happen often anymore, since we can rollback for stuff like symlinks, name collisions, etc.
[15:01] <jam> but I would assume there are still possibilities
[15:01] <vila> jam: really badly then because it's been a while since I encountered it for the last time
[15:01] <jam> vila: it has to be an unhandled exception, yes
[15:01] <jam> and we handle a lot
[15:04] <vila> garyvdm: wow, that's TDD....
[15:06] <garyvdm> vila: :-)
[15:07] <vila> The nice thing is that I don't have to understand what you fixed and where you fixed it. The test are short and clear enough to demonstrate that you diagnosed the problem, had them failed, fix the problem, had them pass. So since PQM will catch you if you cheated, I can just approve :-D
[15:07] <vila> garyvdm: Add a NEWS entry !
[15:07] <jam> garyvdm: so the problem was that after the failure the WT was still locked?
[15:07] <vila> jam: yup
[15:07] <vila> *left* locked
[15:07] <jam> garyvdm: it helps to say that in the merge proposal
[15:08] <jam> though apparently vila has been following on enough to already know
[15:08] <vila> garyvdm: jam is right, I knew from following the bug comments, but it helps all reviewers to summarize
[15:09] <vila> garyvdm: the NEWS entry can partly address that too :)
[15:09] <jam> igc: your change seems ok. I'm wondering what the packaging bug is, then.
[15:09] <jam> is it something in Make that is talking about the pdf, or is it a debian/* directory issue
[15:09] <vila> jam: some MANIFEST file checking file presence ?
[15:10] <jam> vila: My gut feeling says it is a bug in the packaging script
[15:10] <jam> which as you say, is something like MANIFEST
[15:24] <Lo-lan-do> Hmmm. Since there's no after: keyword in revisionspecs, is there a way of getting a log of stuff that happened after a given revid?
[15:24] <vila> revid:<revid>..
[15:25] <Lo-lan-do> This includes the given revid.
[15:25] <Lo-lan-do> I'd like to get stuff that happened strictly later than that.
[15:25] <Lo-lan-do> (For a commit hook)
[15:27] <vila> Lo-lan-do: err, why do you want to use a revspec if you're already in a commit hook ?
[15:27] <vila> Lo-lan-do: What are you trying to get your hands on ?
[15:27] <Lo-lan-do> I don't understand the question.
[15:28] <vila> Lo-lan-do: me neither :) Let's try again
[15:28] <vila> Lo-lan-do: What are you trying to get your hands on ?
[15:28] <Lo-lan-do> Trying to run "bzr log -r $old..$new$ and not get $old listed
[15:28] <vila> in a commit hook ???
[15:29] <Lo-lan-do> In a shell script that'll be run by a commit hook, yes.
[15:29] <Lo-lan-do> Think commit emails, for instance, or triggering builds, or whatever. I want to keep the genericity of just calling a $repo/.bzr/hooks/post-commit script.
[15:30] <vila> right, why not stay in your commit hook in python where you can call bzrlib.log.show_branch_change for example ?
[15:31] <vila> def show_branch_change(branch, output, old_revno, old_revision_id):
[15:31] <vila>     """Show the changes made to a branch.
[15:31] <vila>     :param branch: The branch to show changes about.
[15:31] <vila>     :param output: A file-like object to write changes to.
[15:31] <vila>     :param old_revno: The revno of the old tip.
[15:31] <vila>     :param old_revision_id: The revision_id of the old tip.
[15:31] <vila>     """
[15:31] <igc> jam: fyi, reasonable progress on the new windows installer today
[15:32] <Lo-lan-do> I want to keep the external shell script, because it may be used for other things than commit emails.
[15:32] <jam> igc: good to hear
[15:32] <igc> jam: I'm packaging explorer 0.8 this weekend and bialix is making innosetup and py2exe related fixes so everything should be good for  ...
[15:33] <igc> packaging on Windows by Monday your time
[15:33] <jam> igc: any chance to do it sooner? I'd like to have a full build for the guys in Canada
[15:33] <jam> and I'll be flying early monday morning
[15:33] <jam> if not, no prob, I'll survive
[15:33] <igc> jam: ping bialix and check
[15:34] <igc> jam: I lack the expertise to make all the required installer changes
[15:34] <igc> jam: though the buildoutv recipes are now done and more-or-less working
[15:35] <jam> igc: I'm more concerned about bzr-explorer
[15:35] <garyvdm> vila: I've updated news. Please will you submit to pqm.
[15:35] <igc> jam: so bialix hopefully has enough to tweak py2exe and the iss file from here
[15:35] <igc> jam: ah, ok
[15:36] <vila> garyvdm: you need a second vote :)
[15:37] <igc> jam: I'll see how I go
[15:37] <garyvdm> vila: ok - Not sure how to get launchpad to update the diff, with out loseing your review.
[15:37] <igc> night all
[15:37] <vila> garyvdm: you can't
[15:38] <vila> jam: care to have a quick look at  https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~garyvdm/bzr/Bug427773/+merge/11601, I'll merge if you approve
[15:39] <vila> garyvdm: also, naming your branches 427773-unlock-when-limbo instead of just Bug427773 helps
[15:43] <jam> vila: approved
[15:43] <vila> jam: thks
[15:45] <vila> garyvdm: pqm'ed
[15:45] <garyvdm> vila, jam: Thanks
[15:46] <vila> garyvdm:  thanks to *you* :-D
[15:48] <garyvdm> vila: As it's a simple bug fix, should I submit it for 2.0?
[15:49] <vila> garyvdm: since it isn't  a regression, no
[15:49] <garyvdm> vila: ok
[15:49] <garyvdm> bbl
[15:51] <jam> vila: simple bugfixes are expected for 2.0
[15:51] <jam> for the 2.0.1 stuff
[15:51] <jam> as long as it isn't an api change
[15:51] <jam> I think it should land for 2.0.1
[15:51] <jam> garyvdm: ^^
[15:51] <vila> >-/
[15:51] <jam> the point of the 2.0.x series is "bugfixes without features"
[15:52] <jam> regardless regressions
[15:52] <jam> vila: though it is a "feeling" thing
[15:52] <jam> that we will have to tune with time
[15:52] <jam> we can always "ask poolie" :)
[15:52] <vila> my gut feeling is that we'd better keep the regression rule in place...
[15:53] <vila> or we'll be back-porting everything, or am I already contradicting myself regarding spiv recent case....
[15:56] <jam> vila: spiv's is a code cleanup
[15:56] <jam> I'm 90% sure we aren't keeping the regression rule
[15:56] <jam> regression rule is for the "what do we backport for an rc"
[15:56] <jam> bugfixes get done on the stable branch
[15:57] <jam> the whole point is to give people bugfixes without features, not having to do with regressions
[15:58] <vila> I really need to draw myself a picture with release numbers and associated dates :-/
[16:01] <jam> vila: well, 2.0.1 is likely to come out the same time as 2.1.0b1
[16:02] <jam> with 2.0.1 == bugfixes only, 2.1.0b1 == bugfixes + features
[16:04] <vila> and we'll merge 2.0.x in 2.1 regularly then... I still have a feeling that we shouldn't need a 2.0.0 branch....
[16:04] <vila> 2.0 and 2.1 have to be enough or something escape me
[16:04] <jam> vila: we need 2.0.0 branch so that I can land patches for 2.0.1 before 2.0.0-final is out
[16:04] <jam> rc2 has been cut
[16:05] <jam> which means 2.0.0 is imminent and bugfixes shouldn't land there
[16:05] <jam> regressions can
[16:05] <vila> land them to 2.0.1 then !
[16:06] <vila> or wait for 2.0 to be out....
[16:06] <vila> that's the part I'm  missing...
[16:07] <vila> sounds like more troubles than benefits, but well, it may just be that I don't look at it from the right POV
[16:08] <vila> and I'm grumpy because I can't find some notes I took a couple of weeks ago, so there !
[16:10] <jam> vila: well, if it helps, there is no 2.0
[16:10] <jam> it will be 2.0.0
[16:10] <jam> lp:bzr/2.0 == the 2.0.x series
[16:10] <jam> which *was* 2.0.0 until the 2.0.0rc2 was cut, when we started a new branch
[16:10] <jam> the same as 'trunk == current series' and we create a new branch at rc time
[16:11] <vila> yes, I liked that branch, do you mean that we will just use lp:bzr/2.0.x from now on ?
[16:11] <vila> Then, yes, it helps
[16:11] <jam> Arguably it would be clearer if the branch was explicitly called "lp:bzr/2.0.x" rather than "lp:bzr/2.0"
[16:14] <jam> anyone know the magic attributes to tell gcc that a function is a "printf" style function, and it should check the % codes?
[16:15] <vila> jam: http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc-3.2.3/gcc/Function-Attributes.html
[16:15] <vila> extern int
[16:15] <vila>           my_printf (void *my_object, const char *my_format, ...)
[16:15] <vila>                 __attribute__ ((format (printf, 2, 3)));
[16:16] <jam> vila: thanks
[16:16]  * vila bounces to jam and google :-D
[16:21] <vila> haaaaa, found them !
[16:24] <jam> vila: you have some 64-bit machines at your disposal, right?
[16:24] <vila> jam: yes, karmic or jaunty
[16:24] <jam> can you do: "bzr co lp:meliae; cd meliae; py setup.py build_ext -i; py run_tests.py" ?
[16:26] <vila> jam: Ran 101 tests in 0.027s
[16:26] <vila> OK
[16:26] <vila> s/py/python/ first :)
[16:26] <jam> gotta love that 27ms
[16:26] <jam> vila: I always alias py => python
[16:26] <jam> mostly because on Windows it is
[16:27] <jam> /cygdrive/c/Python26/python
[16:27] <jam> which is crappy to type
[16:27] <vila> :-D
[16:27] <vila> how long does it take to run for you ?
[16:27] <jam> 0.031s
[16:27] <jam> on my laptop
[16:27] <jam> vila: any compiler warnings?
[16:28] <vila> __Pyx_GetItemInt and __Pyx_SetItemInt defined but not used
[16:28] <vila> for _loader.c and _intset.c
[16:28] <fm> is there a way to generate a patchset with bzr. i.e. i want to add a special formated comment and then export the last n revisions as patches ....
[16:29] <jam> vila: you probably need a newer pyrex :)
[16:29] <vila> jam: :-P
[16:30] <jam> fm: you might look at 'bzr send'
[16:30] <jam> bzr send -o filename
[16:30] <jam> can put the data into a file
[16:30] <vila> or log -p
[16:30] <jam> but it generally exports all-at-once, not one patch per rev
[16:31] <fm> but i'd like one patch per rev.
[16:31] <vila> fm: log -p
[16:31] <luks> fm: it's not supposed to be applied to a bzr branch?
[16:31] <fm> vila: looks great
[16:32] <jam> fm: for i in `seq A B`; bzr send -o filename.$i -r before:$i..$i; done
[16:32] <vila> fm: care to explain your use case ?
[16:32] <jam> fm: depends whether you want something that we can "bzr merge $YOUR_PATCH"
[16:32] <jam> or whether you just want to send it to someone to look over
[16:33] <fm> i am collaborating with people on a translation project. and they do not use version control systems. the patches are discussed by email. the target repository is an svn repository. but most patches are attached in pieces (my local revs) into a bug tracking system.
[16:35] <fm> jam the for loop was my idea, but i thought there must be something prettier ...
[16:36] <fm> in a perfect world i could modify allready committed versions ;)
[16:37] <vila> fm: may be you want a branch for each of your patches instead and *then* you can use send and all its goodies :)
[16:38] <fm> the translations files are huge (40.000+ lines). and i create patches by topic to be easier to review. a patch just doing simple spelling mistakes. then one correcting spaces. and others changing some "meaning"
[16:39] <fm> vila: is is possible to "restack" branches as i do not know in which order the patches are applied in advance. they should not conflict ...
[16:40] <fm> is it possible to "restack" branches?
[16:40] <vila> fm: they do overlap ?
[16:40] <fm> vila: they might
[16:41] <vila> do you use bzr-svn >?
[16:43] <fm> vila: no
[16:44] <fm> i do not have any access to the server. i.e. i must contribute in patch form
[16:44] <vila> ok
[16:45] <vila> I don't have a really good answer, the problem is that you're working without connection to the svn server, at least having a mirror of that server locally (with bzr-svn) may help you find better workflows
[16:46] <vila> using bzr should help you remove that " they should not conflict" constraint, if they conflict you can easily solve the conflict locally and then submit updated versions
[16:47] <vila> otherwise, the short answer is 'log -p'
[16:48] <fm> but log -p does not allow me to modify later if i missed a string.
[16:49] <vila> short of (uncommit, shelve) dance until you get to the proper patch, no
[16:49] <vila> followed by (unshelve; commit) dance, but you'll tired of dancing soon
[16:49] <vila> an alternative is loom or maybe pipeline (I don't use the later)
[16:50] <vila> but I'm unclear about 'log -p' will work there, you may want to add a '-n[123]' there and find the good one
[16:59]  * vila EODing with a violent headache :-/
[17:04] <fm> i want to have a branch changing "get" to "got" and another one changing "car" to "vehicle". now i want to be able to reorder in which order they have to be applied to the base.
[17:05] <fm> as there might be a line containing get and car. or at least in the three lines before and after
[17:46] <exarkun> I cannot commit to my newly created bzr branch.
[17:47] <exarkun> bzr: ERROR: Permission denied: "rynyps2dbs221zpo09ag.pack": [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/data/.bzr/repository/upload/rynyps2dbs221zpo09ag.pack'
[17:47] <exarkun> bzr version 1.17
[17:47] <exarkun> It is certainly true that I lack write permission to /data
[17:47] <exarkun> But I don't know of any good reason why write permission to that directory should be required.
[17:48] <exarkun> Why does this happen?  How can I fix it?
[18:13] <exarkun> Did I leave something important out that makes it difficult to answer?
[18:14] <luks> is your branch somewhere under /data?
[18:15] <luks> or perhaps under a directory symlinked leading to /data?
[18:15] <luks> if you create a new branch, it will go up to / looking for a repository to use
[18:20] <exarkun> My branch is beneath /data, yea
[18:20] <exarkun> How do I stop it from going up looking for a repository?
[18:21] <exarkun> And how do I undo creating the branch?  Just delete the .bzr directory which was created?
[18:21] <luks> create a new repository
[18:21] <luks> yes
[18:21] <luks> (bzr init-repo)
[18:22] <exarkun> Thanks, that worked.
[18:23] <Lo-lan-do> Maybe bzr should only go up to / looking for a *usable* repository, and fall back to . if none is found?
[18:25] <exarkun> I guess that figuring out what "usable" means is finicky and fiddly.
[19:40] <jam> lifeless: I merged your streaming changes, though I had to make a bunch of tweaks to make sure it support python 2.5 and windows peculiarities
[19:40] <jam> We should probably split up files.py a bit more and have more direct testing
[19:41] <jam> otherwise if you have gzip it doesn't test the code path without it, etc.
[19:46] <fm> vila: how are patchsets like the ones sent to the linux kernel mailing list created?
[19:48] <garyvdm> Yhay - I finally got a decent internet connection.
[19:50] <Tak> is there a bisect plugin?
[19:52] <Pilky> Tak: https://launchpad.net/bzr-bisect
[19:53] <Tak> nice, thanks
[19:54] <Pilky> AFAIK most plugins for bzr are listed here: http://bazaar-vcs.org/BzrPlugins
[19:54] <Pilky> so that's the best place to look if you want something
[20:00] <jam> fm: 'bzr log -p' is not much like the kernel patchsets, which have the embedded data to recreate the git repository
[20:00] <jam> 'the result of 'bzr send' does have the ability to recreate the data
[20:01] <fm> jam i guess quilt is what i want
[20:01] <jam> fm: the general bzr equivalent is 'bzr-loom' or 'bzr-pipeline'
[20:01] <jam> which is the same idea of preparing a series of patches
[20:01] <fm> just looking at the pipeline ,)
[20:01] <jam> but does it without 'throwing away' as much history
[20:02] <jam> Pilky, Tak: There is also: https://launchpad.net/bazaar which is the list of projects under the Bazaar banner.
[20:05] <fm> http://bazaar-vcs.org/BzrPipeline sounds good
[20:07] <Tak> cool, thanks
[20:08] <fm> is there anything for pipeline or loom, they seem quiet similar
[20:08] <jam> fm: They are roughly similar, but store things on disk a bit differently
[20:09] <fm> hopefully i do not have to edit the on disk format ...
[20:09] <jam> fm: Sure.
[20:09] <jam> bzr-pipeline works 'with regular branches' while 'bzr-loom' works with a custom branch format
[20:09] <jam> I'm not sure if that means much to you now
[20:10] <jam> but it means that the individual bits that you are working on
[20:10] <jam> can be more directly accessed in 'pipeline'
[20:10] <jam> (they have a path on disk, for example)
[20:10] <fm> which will still be maintained in two years?
[20:10] <jam> fm: which ever one stays possible
[20:10] <jam> from current PoV, both
[20:10] <fm> are these plugins used by any "big" project?
[20:11] <jam> fm: Both are used by developers hacking on Launchpad
[20:11] <jam> and Bazaar
[20:11] <jam> what do you consider "big"
[20:11] <jam> Though from my understanding of the internals, neither should have any trouble scaling
[20:13] <fm> jam big was more about the project than the files. just was interested how others decided between the two. but i guess i will look at both
[20:13] <jam> fm: Well, abentley was the one who put together pipeline to work on Launchpad because he wanted 'more direct access' than loom gave him
[20:14] <jam> as such, he's started getting more people in Launchpad using ti
[20:14] <jam> it
[20:14] <jam> 'loom' was around earlier though
[20:14] <jam> so I don't know how many users of each
[20:14] <jam> if *I* was choosing, I would go with pipeline probably
[20:14] <jam> it is closer to how I already work today
[20:17] <Pilky> is there a way to find out whether a Repository object is representing an actual repository or a standalone branch?
[20:17] <Pilky> besides checking if it returns 1 branch url from find_branches() and that url is the same as the repo
[20:20] <Pilky> ah found it, was looking for is_shared()
[20:20] <fm> bzr: ERROR: add-pipe should be run in a lightweight checkout.  See bzr help pipeline for details.
[20:20] <jam> Pilky: yep
[20:21] <fm> i have a local repo created with a simple bzr init. what is the difference of a lightweight checkout?
[20:23] <jam> fm: bzr init-repo --no-trees repo; bzr init repo/branch; bzr co --lightweight repo/branch working_tree; from there "add-pipe"
[20:26] <fm> bzr reconfigure should do if i am reading correctly
[20:26] <jam> it should
[20:27] <fm> http://how-bazaar.blogspot.com/2009/07/breaking-up-work-for-reivew.html
[20:27] <fm> what do i loose by going leightweight?
[20:28] <fm> no local history?? that is why i use bzr instead of my svn repo ....
[20:29] <jam> fm: if you have a 'bzr init-repo' you still have the data locally
[20:29] <jam> just not in the working tree itself
[20:29] <jam> mostly you just gain flexibility
[20:29] <jam> as the working tree can point at multiple branches
[22:25] <hsn> you cant pull from 2a into 1.9 repo?
[22:26] <jelmer> hsn: only into a 1.9-rich-root repo
[22:26] <jelmer> hi SamB
[22:26] <SamB_XP> jelmer: hello
[22:56] <garyvdm> Hi pygi.
[22:57] <pygi> hi garyvdm
[22:57] <pygi> how are you doing my friend?
[22:57] <garyvdm> pygi: At uds, you were running WinXP inside you desktop environment. How do you do that?
[22:58] <garyvdm> pygi: Good and you?
[22:58] <pygi> garyvdm, virtualbox
[22:58] <pygi> garyvdm, could be better, folks at uni are bugging them
[22:59] <garyvdm> pygi: thank you. I'm maintaining a website written in .asp, and so I have to boot into windows to often :-(
[22:59] <garyvdm> Hi Jelmer
[22:59] <jelmer> hi Gary
[22:59] <pygi> garyvdm, I understand the problem. Virtualbox seems like an adequate solution for the problem
[23:00] <garyvdm> jelmer: Do you know of any plugins that implement commit_message_template hooks? (I know of bzr-builddeb)
[23:02] <jelmer> garyvdm: bzr-builddeb is the only one I know of as well
[23:02] <garyvdm> jelmer: Ok - Thanks
[23:03] <pygi> garyvdm, any cool things you've done recently? :)
[23:03] <garyvdm> pygi: No - just lots of bug fixing.
[23:03] <pygi> awww
[23:04] <pygi> at least you did more then me :(
[23:04] <pygi> my uni is amazingly bugging me
[23:05] <garyvdm> pygi: Work hard! I all ways regret that I never finished at uni.
[23:05] <exarkun> Party hard.  There's plenty of time for work later.
[23:05] <pygi> exarkun, hardly. I'm in a bad enough situation already.
[23:06] <exarkun> pygi: Nothing that some more partying can't solve, I'm sure!
[23:06] <pygi> garyvdm, yes, I will. But I also need to fix some stuff in bzr-gtk :P
[23:06]  * pygi looks at vila
[23:06] <fullermd> Forget work and party.  SLEEP hard; there'll be no time for it later.
[23:07] <garyvdm> pygi: Not a day goes by that I don't think about creating a gtk qbzr port (gbzr...)
[23:07] <pygi> garyvdm, what's the point? :D
[23:07] <pygi> I don't care about toolkits war xD
[23:07] <fullermd> Well, once you've got gqbzr, you can port it to Motif, see...
[23:08] <garyvdm> pygi: neither do I, but there are lots of people that won't use qbzr because its written qt.
[23:08] <pygi> garyvdm, why do we even market it as such? :)
[23:08] <pygi> lets call it something else, so most won't even notice :p
[23:09] <pygi> fullermd, :D
[23:09] <garyvdm> pygi: My idea is that gbzr would be a branch of qbzr. When new features get added to qbzr, then you merge qbzr into gbzr, and port the changes.
[23:10] <garyvdm> When I have time....
[23:10] <pygi> garyvdm, my opinion, which doesn't matter too much in this case, is that doing that is a waste of resources
[23:10] <lifeless> jam: I agreee
[23:10] <lifeless> jam: (re split ups and testing etc)
[23:11] <pygi> garyvdm, limited resources, while we're at it
[23:11] <garyvdm> pygi: but that would be less work that maintaining qbzr and bzr-gtk
[23:12] <garyvdm> *than
[23:12] <pygi> garyvdm, possibly
[23:13] <garyvdm> Any way - It's just a crazy idea in my head. I think I'm destined to just think about it, but never start for ever.... :-p
[23:18] <zsquareplusc> what is it in bzr-gtk that has a state? after a fresh login, it always fails with an exception when i run the 1st command and any successive run works :/
[23:20] <jelmer> zsquareplusc: it's a bug in seahorse
[23:21] <pygi> garyvdm, we might talk about this one day. perhaps next UDS? UI stuff for bzr is getting better every day, but such diversity is hurting us (with no real maintenance on everything)
[23:22] <zsquareplusc> jelmer: ah. i had suspected bzr-notify. can i do something to fix that or just wait for 9.10 ;-)
[23:22] <jelmer> zsquareplusc: you can uninstall searhose if you don't use it for anything else
[23:23] <zsquareplusc> hm, no option, i use it
[23:23] <jelmer> zsquareplusc: otherwise, wait for 9.10 indeed
[23:23] <jelmer> pygi: is there really anything that can be done, other than having upstream gtk and qt merge?
[23:23] <pygi> jelmer, surely ppa must have newer seahorse for 9.04 somewhere? :)
[23:24] <jelmer> not aware of any
[23:24] <pygi> jelmer, not sure, make people stop caring about toolkits? :p
[23:24] <SamB_XP_> jelmer: get the pyqt package split into pieces like the qt libs are ?
[23:25] <jelmer> SamB_XP_: how would that help?
[23:25] <SamB_XP_> then I would probably have room to install enough to install qbzr ...
[23:26] <jelmer> Ah, in that sense.
[23:26] <jelmer> I don't think disk space is the problem for most people though
[23:26] <SamB_XP_> okay, I don't know why they care so much
[23:27] <SamB_XP_> I mean, it would be *nice* for things to look and act consistantly with eachother ...
[23:27] <jelmer> yeah, that's my main reason for picking bzr-gtk over qbzr
[23:27] <lifeless> jelmer: https://code.launchpad.net/~lifeless/subunit/perl-install/+merge/11498
[23:28] <SamB_XP_> ... but, you know, that doesn't seem to stop many people from using gitk as their preferred git visualization tool ...
[23:34] <fullermd> Actually, disk space kept me from even looking at qbzr 'till I built this new system...   but build time would have factored in too.  qt4 is _big_.
[23:35] <garyvdm> Startup time is another issue
[23:36] <garyvdm> jelmer: what do you think of my idea?
[23:41] <garyvdm> Night all
[23:57] <maxb> Is there any way to have bzr-notify poll remote branches?


[12:25] <ubotu> New bug: #96832 in restricted-manager (main) "does not offer driver for GeForce 6800 (dup-of: 93209)" [Undecided,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/96832
[03:21] <ubotu> New bug: #57086 in beforelight (main) "Uninformative package description" [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/57086
[04:56] <ubotu> New bug: #44843 in xorg (main) "Xorg does not configure properly on Toshiba Laptop" [Medium,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/44843
[06:01] <ubotu> New bug: #112637 in xorg (main) "[Feisty AMD64] Closing tab in Firefox kills xorg" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/112637
[06:10] <ubotu> New bug: #112634 in gnome-panel (main) "The screen settings in gnome are out of sync with xorg.conf (dup-of: 104105)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/112634
[07:56] <ubotu> New bug: #88425 in linux-restricted-modules-2.6.20 (restricted) "point behind vmware-server modules? " [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/88425
[08:15] <ubotu> New bug: #112664 in xorg (main) "If xorg.conf is removed, Synaptics touchpad not detected" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/112664
[11:40] <ubotu> New bug: #112701 in xserver-xorg-video-i810 (main) "i810 video driver does not detect video modes" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/112701


[03:26] <mapps> hi all
[03:27] <daftykins> lo
[03:33] <mapps> sup;D
[03:34] <mapps> cool tv night..walking dead..homeland and brooklynnine nine;D
[03:34] <mapps> watch any?
[03:34] <mapps> ooh and new series of peep show
[03:35] <daftykins> nope not any o' them
[03:36] <mapps> :|
[03:36] <mapps> peep showis so funny
[03:36] <daftykins> ah can't stand that style
[03:36] <daftykins> too painful
[04:16] <mapps> homelandtime:D
[04:32] <mapps> ;]
[08:10] <MooDoo> morning all
[08:11] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[08:12] <jimmy_will> what a morning
[08:16] <directhex> Laney! fix bug 1132063!
[08:16] <lubotu3`> bug 1132063 in unity-control-center (Ubuntu) "Mouse settings missing from Mouse & Touchpad dialog" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1132063
[09:08] <diplo> Morning all
[10:03] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday, and happy Button Day! 😃
[10:03] <directhex> JamesTait: buttons for pushing, or buttons for doing things up?
[10:04] <JamesTait> directhex, officially the doing things up type, but personally I don't mind. 😉
[10:16] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[10:21] <popey> morning
[10:22] <dogmatic69> o/
[12:34] <popey> !ping
[12:34] <lubotu3`> pong!
[12:34] <popey> good
[12:35] <bigcalm> !ding
[12:35] <lubotu3`> dong
[12:35] <bigcalm> pud
[12:38] <foobarry> !sing
[12:38] <foobarry> :(
[12:39] <bigcalm> !bing
[12:39] <lubotu3`> ban
[12:39] <bigcalm> o.O
[12:39] <bigcalm> I was hoping for google
[12:54] <diddledan_> !sing
[12:54] <diddledan_> aww
[12:55] <davmor2> JamesTait: sorry meetings and bugs slowed me down https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJDGcxAf9D8
[13:15]  * diddledan_ pushes davmor2 's button
[13:15] <diddledan_> but really.. a day for buttons?!
[13:15] <diddledan_> that's randomness
[13:16] <zmoylan-pi> next zipper day...
[13:16] <diddledan_> zmoylan-pi: and then "getting it caught in the zipper day"
[13:16]  * diddledan_ winces
[13:16] <zmoylan-pi> it'll keep them in stitches...
[13:17] <diddledan_> the big question when you get caught in your zip is "do I finish doing it up or attempt to undo it?"
[13:17] <zmoylan-pi> or the slow v fast method of bandaid removal...
[13:17] <diddledan_> yeah that's another perennial
[13:18] <foobarry> popey: i got some great github stickers
[13:18] <foobarry> ask jono bacon for some ;)
[13:20] <popey> i will! :)
[13:20] <foobarry> we got 200 after buying the github onsite appliance
[13:20] <popey> I'd rather have launchpad stickers though, because you know, free software
[13:20] <foobarry> there are some great stickers
[13:20] <foobarry> yeah
[13:21] <foobarry> but octocat
[13:21]  * popey shrugs
[13:22] <foobarry> i also have a "my other computer is a cray"
[13:24] <zmoylan-pi> my favourite was 'the beatings will continue till morale improves'
[13:24] <diddledan_> lol
[14:19] <diddledan_> found this the other day: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJvEIjRBSDA (Write in go)
[14:29] <diddledan_> "it's weird when you can see each other, isn't it. I don't like it!" lol
[14:29] <diddledan_> silly geeks
[14:29]  * diddledan_ <3 the buntu podcast
[14:36] <diplo> Giving Ubuntu Mate a go today, well once I have backed everything up
[14:37] <diddledan_> one must recognise there's a difference between someone saying "you gotta try ubuntu, mate" and "you gotta try ubuntu mate"
[14:37] <diddledan_> :-p
[14:38] <diplo> Well it's not pronounced "mate" like alright mate
[14:38] <diplo> So I've found out today
[14:38] <diplo> :P
[14:38] <zmoylan-pi> i learned the importance of commas when i helped my uncle jack off a horse... :-P
[14:38] <diddledan_> yeah, I think that makes it sound ponsey tho
[14:40] <diddledan_> I would imagine the horse was somewhat relieved to have that weight-off
[14:40] <diddledan_> whichever way you punctuate it :-p
[15:31] <diddledan_> fun exam answer (supposedly) http://paste.ubuntu.com/13299495/
[15:39] <foobarry> there's only 1 way to pronounce mate surelty?
[15:40] <zmoylan-pi> unless you spell if maté
[15:41] <foobarry> but they don't?
[15:43] <zmoylan-pi> seems to have been dropped but still pronounced that way...
[15:51] <bigcalm> Like Cafe
[15:54] <daftykins> i find most pronunciation in the open source world to be quite stupid
[15:56] <diddledan_> café is supposed to be spelt with a ´ over the e. anything else is wrong.
[15:58] <arsenip> well
[15:58] <arsenip> anything else is the eastenders version
[15:58] <daftykins> :>
[15:58] <diddledan_> cath's caff
[15:58] <arsenip> caf-ay (french) or CAFF (eastenders)
[15:58] <arsenip> GOIN DOWN CAFF
[15:58] <diddledan_> daan caff
[15:58] <diddledan_> not down
[15:58] <arsenip> ^
[15:58] <arsenip> sorry.
[15:58] <arsenip> i'm a newbie to south london.
[15:58] <diddledan_> lol
[15:58] <daftykins> saff
[15:58] <arsenip> SAFF
[15:58] <arsenip> ffs
[15:59] <arsenip> sorrY!
[15:59] <daftykins> XD
[15:59]  * arsenip quits life
[15:59] <diddledan_> :-p
[15:59] <arsenip> *liaff
[16:00] <daftykins> hmm a mate is giving me his smashed screen Nexus 5 for free, so i've ordered a cheap £26 screen from Hong Kong to swap :>
[16:00] <diddledan_> you sneaky pete!
[16:00] <arsenip> nice.
[16:00]  * arsenip rubs his iphone
[16:01] <diddledan_> arsenip: pervert
[16:01] <arsenip> probably.
[16:01]  * diddledan_ rubs his, too
[16:01] <arsenip> i'm male.
[16:01]  * zmoylan-pi offers to play phone conkers with nokia dumbphone...
[16:01] <diddledan_> my precious
[16:01] <diddledan_> I like the fingerprinty thingy
[16:01] <daftykins> nah he knows it's been fixable for ages, but i saw him the other day at a party with a Samsung S5 =|
[16:02] <daftykins> some folks are so ridiculous with their money
[16:02] <diddledan_> <--
[16:02] <daftykins> ;]
[16:03] <arsenip> <--
[16:03] <arsenip> rediculous is relative.
[16:03] <diddledan_> I like shiny toys
[16:03] <arsenip> as is money.
[16:03] <daftykins> seems someone i know is still keen on getting a Surface despite having a Lenovo X1 carbon
[16:03] <diddledan_> o_O
[16:03] <arsenip> surface looks good tbh
[16:03]  * diddledan_ checks the lenovo
[16:03] <arsenip> is the x1 not old now ?
[16:04] <Seeker`> Registered : Nov 20 23:44:23 2006 (8y 51w 5d ago)
[16:04] <daftykins> unless you ever want to upgrade it, trollolol
[16:04] <Seeker`> There must be 9 days this week
[16:04] <arsenip> its a laptop ..
[16:04] <daftykins> X1 has a 2015 model
[16:04] <arsenip> if you're buying laptops for upgradability you're doing it wrong :D
[16:04] <arsenip> i say this from my high perch cradling my macbook 12.. of course.
[16:04] <daftykins> not when Lenovos are mostly sold with teensy SSDs
[16:04] <arsenip> ah yes, that i can understand.
[16:04] <daftykins> what the stupid Core M thing?
[16:05] <arsenip> 'low on disk space' shouldnt be an error that exists in todays age.
[16:05] <arsenip> probably daftykins
[16:05] <daftykins> i was able to swap out the 160GB intel for a 512GB Crucial in the X240 of someones
[16:05] <arsenip> though perf isnt an issue really.
[16:06] <daftykins> buying all the accessories to get some sane sockets is? :>
[16:06] <primered6> ~<120gb is not that bad that's what NAS storage is for..
[16:07] <arsenip> i gots all the litle donglefriends daftykins  :D
[16:07] <arsenip> actually i could do with a usb-c to thunderbolt or whatever it is, i guess
[16:07] <daftykins> primered6: perhaps for your own usecase, however i have travelling business folk clients
[16:07] <daftykins> hehe
[16:08] <arsenip> franly the only reason i have 500gig SSD in mine is because i dont want to ever have to delete stuff
[16:08] <arsenip> i can't see many businesses using >100gig on a workstation unless its a creative industry (sound/video processing)
[16:09] <bashrc_> nobody will ever need more than 640K
[16:09] <arsenip> :D
[16:10]  * daftykins groans at the cliché
[16:10] <diddledan_> I use > 100G on my laptop for business
[16:10] <arsenip> i basically work out of crhome and a terminal, so my 500gig exists for random junk downloads and videos to watch on flights. :D
[16:13] <daftykins> i wish i knew who this office opposite was, i'd tell 'em they can save money by turning off their damn screens at night :P
[16:15]  * daftykins keeps using Firefox tab groups before it gets removed in FF 45 :(
[16:22] <diplo> I use > 100G on my laptop and work PC arsenip as do most of the work staff, but I agree in a typical office maybe that would be a lot
[16:25] <awilkins> Windows eats like 60G or something now?
[16:26] <awilkins> I know a lot of it is actually hardlinks to libraries, but still
[16:26] <daftykins> no
[16:28] <daftykins> it's never taken 60GB
[16:29] <primered6> More like 20-30gb
[16:29] <primered6> if that..
[16:30] <daftykins> 10 comes with that funky install shrinking tech
[16:30] <hexhaxtron> Anyone has Freeview HD?
[16:30] <daftykins> what'd the actual question be?
[16:31] <zleap> some channels on freeview are HD,
[16:31] <hexhaxtron> If it works with WiFi or if I need cables connected to the TV?
[16:31] <zleap> like bbc channels, so if you have HDTV you get a better picture
[16:31] <daftykins> hexhaxtron: wait what? freeview is aerial broadcast no o0
[16:31] <hexhaxtron> daftykins, what does it mean aerial? I need an antenna?
[16:32] <daftykins> yeah that's what freeview is, unless something new has come out in the last year i don't know about
[16:32] <zleap> ariel = antenna
[16:32] <hexhaxtron> Or the builtin Freeview in the TV already catches the signal?
[16:32] <daftykins> depends what your TV is capable of
[16:32] <hexhaxtron> daftykins, I'm interested in this TV: http://dealbuyer.com/viewproduct/18228/Digihome_48_LED_Full_HD_1080p_TV_2_x_HDMI_2_x_USB_Media_Player
[16:33] <daftykins> so yeah roof antenna only
[16:33] <hexhaxtron> I don't have a roof antenna...
[16:33] <daftykins> then you're up that specific creek with no paddle
[16:34] <daftykins> i think i'd aim for something with a freesat tuner, then you can make use of a sky dish
[16:35] <hexhaxtron> daftykins, can you suggest me an antenna to buy?
[16:35] <daftykins> nope
[16:35] <daftykins> you'll want to phone your local handy installer
[16:36] <daftykins> before that though, use the freeview site to check coverage in your area
[16:36] <zleap> we have a freeview tv with a normal indoor ariel / antenna works ok
[16:36] <daftykins> sounds like non-HD
[16:36] <zleap> the UK should have full coverage of freeview analog channels were switched off IIRC
[16:36] <daftykins> no harm in checing :)
[16:36] <daftykins> +k
[16:37] <zleap> not sure just now we have a new tv and we are using an indoor ariel
[16:37] <hexhaxtron> zleap, something like this? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/271206041756?adgroupid=13936810266&hlpht=true&hlpv=2&rlsatarget=kwd-124296812946&adtype=pla&ff3=1&lpid=122&poi=&ul_noapp=true&limghlpsr=true&device=c&chn=ps&campaignid=220881786&crdt=0&ff12=67&ff11=ICEP3.0.0-L&ff14=122&viphx=1&ops=true&ff13=80
[16:37] <zleap> kinda but yes
[16:37] <zleap> they come in all shapes
[16:37] <hexhaxtron> Thanks! :)
[16:38] <zleap> https://duckduckgo.com/?t=lm&q=indoor+ariel&iax=1&ia=images
[16:42] <hexhaxtron> zleap, what do you think of this one? http://www.qvsdirect.com/amplified-indoor-freestanding-digital-freeview-aerial-with-4g-filter?utm_source=google&utm_medium=googleshopping&utm_campaign=googlebase&gclid=CJDBxJmxlckCFQxmGwodfrMDKg
[16:42] <hexhaxtron> Is it good?
[16:45] <daftykins> you really should just do it right :P
[16:46] <daftykins> after all you only do it once, so there's no point scrimping
[16:46] <hexhaxtron> daftykins, it's not my home... it's a private rented room... I cannot put an antenna on the roof by myself, the landlord needs to give permission for it.
[16:46] <daftykins> weird to have a place with no provision
[16:48] <hexhaxtron> daftykins, but... that antenna works with the TV I mentioned, right? And then I get many channels for free? That's all I need to know.
[16:48] <daftykins> i wouldn't want to say
[16:48] <arsenip> whenever ive lived in rented i've had tv/phone instaleld - usually with landlord perms tho
[16:49] <daftykins> one years little buggers had sky fitted to my place in Portsmouth, they never asked :P
[16:49] <hexhaxtron> I don't have phone either. However, I got wireless Internet. :)
[16:49] <daftykins> phones pretty useless today
[16:49] <daftykins> i only have one from being forced for my VDSL provision
[16:50] <arsenip> tbh i think these dasy its pretty standard to have sky or cable installed
[16:55] <hexhaxtron> arsenip, can I pm you?
[16:56] <diddledan> now that's an odd spam - advertising an "ultra realistic" flight simulator they're calling "VirtualPilot3D"
[16:56] <diddledan> they claim it "is going to be a GAME-CHANGER"
[16:57] <daftykins> diddledan: well you do have to quit what you're playing to run it i suppose ;)
[16:57] <diddledan> lol
[16:57] <arsenip> ofc hexhaxtron
[16:57] <arsenip> im not sure what use i am, though.
[16:58] <daftykins> yeah that arsenip can't even do s saff London accent ;)
[17:00] <arsenip> afaik freeview works via standard tv aerial right? anyting you get from the likes of argos etc would do fine.
[17:01] <daftykins> yeah probably
[17:03] <daftykins> hexhaxtron: http://www.freeview.co.uk/availability
[17:03] <daftykins> see how good the coverage is nearby before investing in some cheap internal antenna
[17:03] <hexhaxtron> daftykins, I did that already.
[17:03] <daftykins> oh ok, just not sharing then
[17:04] <daftykins> sue me for trying :P
[17:04]  * diddledan demands monies
[17:04] <hexhaxtron> daftykins, 90 channels, 14 HD and 29 radio stations.
[17:05] <diddledan> daftykins: talking of suing for money - this is a fun talk at the DEFCON security conference some years ago "that awesome time I was sued for two billion dollars" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSWqx8goqSY
[17:05] <daftykins> only get 18 over here!
[17:06] <diddledan> seems it was 2009 conference
[17:06] <daftykins> cor
[17:06] <daftykins> but that was last week, no?
[17:40] <daftykins> diddledan: i want that 30 minutes back! :P
[17:55] <diddledan> lol
[17:55] <diddledan> you're stuffed then :-p
[17:55] <daftykins> heh nah it was quite interesting, glad i'm not high profile enough to get such letters
[17:56] <diddledan> indeed. I don't know that I'd be able to spot the silly from the serious
[17:56] <daftykins> just imagine being a family person and finding the time to even sift through it all though, ugh
[18:03] <diddledan> http://blogs.windows.com/msedgedev/2015/11/16/introducing-edgehtml-13-our-first-platform-update-for-microsoft-edge/
[18:07] <daftykins> still don't feel inclined to run it XD
[18:48] <hexhaxtron> daftykins, do I have to pay some tax to use TV in the UK?
[18:51] <diddledan> hexhaxtron yes
[18:52] <diddledan> hexhaxtron, to wathc live broadcast (even via the internet) you need a "TV License"
[18:52] <diddledan> catch-up that isn't live is ok wihtou tho
[18:52] <hexhaxtron> diddledan, where can I get more info about the TV License?
[18:53] <diddledan> hexhaxtron. tvlicensing.co.uk
[18:53] <hexhaxtron> diddledan, can't I just use an antena and a TV and watch it for free?
[18:54] <diddledan> hexhaxtron, you can, but it's illegal
[18:55] <hexhaxtron> diddledan, are the channels encrypted or something?
[18:56] <diddledan> freeview and freesat are completely unencrypted
[19:32] <Myrtti> TV licence is a bargain
[20:31] <diddledan> ooh, something changed. I wonder what it was.
[20:31] <diddledan> no more "snuck"ing
[21:56] <diddledan> lol https://twitter.com/bsdphk/status/666231716227469312
[22:05] <diddledan> rdio have filed for bankruptcy and pandora have agreed to acquire key assets and staff pending approval by the bankruptcy court
[22:05] <diddledan> http://www.macrumors.com/2015/11/16/pandora-rdio-acquisition/
[23:14] <popey> !ping
[23:14] <lubotu3`> pong!
[23:14] <popey> hmmm
[23:15] <zmoylan-pi> ding
[23:22] <diddledan> zmoylan-pi, you mean:
[23:22] <diddledan> !ding
[23:22] <lubotu3`> dong
[23:23] <zmoylan-pi> !pewpewpew
[23:24] <diddledan> interesting: watching agents of shield ep 7 "I hope you stick around" followed by the video closing


[08:45] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project mgmt_docker » linode-01 build #2899: SUCCESS in 50 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/mgmt_docker/label=linode-01/2899/
[08:46] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project mgmt_docker » master build #2899: SUCCESS in 1 min 4 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/mgmt_docker/label=master/2899/
[08:49] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project mgmt_docker » swy-01 build #2899: SUCCESS in 4 min 17 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/mgmt_docker/label=swy-01/2899/
[10:12] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[14:45] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project mgmt_docker » linode-01 build #2900: SUCCESS in 48 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/mgmt_docker/label=linode-01/2900/
[14:46] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project mgmt_docker » master build #2900: SUCCESS in 1 min 2 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/mgmt_docker/label=master/2900/
[14:49] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project mgmt_docker » swy-01 build #2900: SUCCESS in 4 min 23 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/mgmt_docker/label=swy-01/2900/
 @DarinMiller https://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?f=309&t=160271&p=415602#p415602
 @DarinMiller have you tried Neon live iso?
 Yes it works great on my hybrid laptop. In fact it helped me troubleshoot what causes kubuntu's live session to fail. I have not tried neon live boot in a couple of months but I can verify at home in a few hours.
 Thanks
 I suggest nomodeset as a boot parameter
 Does that work around it?
 Wait ....some of the new Dell PC bios need drive mode switched to acpi. It will require manual switching if user wants to dual boot windows. Users can also reinstall w10 in acpi mode
 To avoid bios switching.
[20:44] <genii> acheronuk: Cryptocoin adbot was removed?
[20:58] <acheronuk> genii: has been now
[20:59] <genii> :)
[22:10] <valorie> well I was off IRC and afk so couldn't help more with testing
[22:10] <valorie> but I assume today begins another round of it
[23:09] <wxl> we run unattended-upgrades at work and i've never seen notifications with that.. but it seems discover (as of 18.04, which we just switched to) is trying to push out its own notifications.. is there a way to shut it up?
[23:11] <wxl> ugh i guess it's in 16.04 too but no one told me :(
[23:16] <wxl> disable notification events and remove updates from taskbar.. got it :)
[23:18] <valorie> almost everything is configurable #kde
[23:19] <valorie> :-)
[23:19] <wxl> you just got to find the setting amidst the bazillion options #kde XD
[23:25] <valorie> lol


[00:11] <aicasn> knome, draconicus:  ping
[00:13] <aicasn> for whomever....i figured out what borked my system yesterday. the updates that were being applied crash part-way through, forced a halt and reboot, and left the system unusable
[00:14] <aicasn> if anyone else has that problem, boot off a live cd (or whatever), fsck your partitions, mount your drive tree under /mnt, chroot, and do updates under cli with "apt-get update"
[00:14] <aicasn> once the updates went through i was good-to-go
[00:20] <f1assistance1> Any idea why I can't install LibreOffice? Tried several times using the Ubuntu Software Center but it displays a message: Failed to download package files, check your Internet connection? :-(
[00:41] <Louis11> what signal does a restart send?
[04:10] <corvus> Any idea what would cause desktop icons to appear slowly after closing a program?
[04:11] <holstein> low memory... bad graphics driver.. slow hard drive... old machine
[04:12] <corvus> It is an older P4 - 2.6 ghz, 1 gb ram, 64 mb NVidia agp card, but...
[04:12] <corvus> This is the second time I've installed Xubuntu on the same machine. Didn't have that problem before.
[04:12] <holstein> my $$ is on the nvidia driver..
[04:12] <corvus> Everything else seems responsive.
[04:12] <corvus> Think I should go with Nouveau?
[04:13] <holstein> depends on the hardware
[04:13] <corvus> Isn't Nouveau supposed to perform better on older cards?
[04:14] <holstein> not sure.. i usually just see for myself
[04:16] <corvus> Figured it out...I think. I had disabled the compositor. Just enabled it and it seems to have done the trick.
[04:16] <corvus> I hope.
[04:19] <BlakJak> ok... found an annoyance with 12.04b1 ... raft of dependency issues trying to install google earth...
[04:19] <BlakJak> ia32-libs depending on ia32-libs-multiarch depending on a metric buttload of other stuff which is held back or somesuch
[04:36] <beata1> I'm looking for why different sets of icons in my panel are different sizes. Icons directly in the panel (launchers, menu, places) are one size, icons in the window buttons applet are a different size, &c notification area and indicator. What I've been able to find so far by keyword search has been about themes and blurred icons.
[04:49] <holstein> beata1: what would you like to have happen?
[04:50] <holstein> i mean, icons are different sizes... maybe try working on applying an theme, or changing the size
[07:14] <JM> Can anyone answer me some questions related to RAID5 installations?
[09:44] <mrdoctorwho> Hello. I have a problem. When i login xubuntu return me to login screen. What should i do?
[09:47] <mrdoctorwho> I can login from tty* (not tty7) by type command "startxfce4", but it's not normally, because i have no permission for mount devices in thunar and add new network connection by networkmanager
[09:56] <mrdoctorwho> i can login in tty* (not tty7) and start xfce manually*
[10:04] <well_laid_lawn> mrdoctorwho: if you make a file called ~/.xinitrc you can have stuff in there to have mounting work when you startx
[10:05] <mrdoctorwho> well_laid_lawn: i need normal login
[10:06] <well_laid_lawn> mrdoctorwho: anything in .xsession-errors ?
[10:07] <mrdoctorwho> well_laid_lawn: it does not exists in ~
[10:07] <well_laid_lawn> k
[10:09] <well_laid_lawn> mrdoctorwho: you can check the lightdm.log in /var/log
[10:11] <mrdoctorwho> well_laid_lawn: it's null
[10:14] <well_laid_lawn> what does null mean? - is it empty or doesn't exist?
[10:14] <well_laid_lawn> !tab
[10:15] <mrdoctorwho> well_laid_lawn: empty
[10:16] <mrdoctorwho> and in Xorg.0.log no errors
[10:20] <well_laid_lawn> I dunno then, I just startx. ask again in a bit when some more ppl wake up :)
[11:05] <mrdoctorwho> i fix it.
[11:14] <encrypt_> hi, i've installed jupiter on xubuntu and am having issues when changing the resolution to 1024x768
[11:58] <kvarley> I went to Menu>Accessories>Terminal Emulator and it asked me for the default application but listed none so I typed the command for xfce4-terminal but I mis-spelt it and now I get an error everytime I try and launch it. How can I reset or set a new default application for the terminal shortcut in the menu?
[12:04] <well_laid_lawn> kvarley: afaik there'll be a desktop file for it in /usr/share/applications
[12:07] <kvarley> well_laid_lawn: It does Exec=exo-open --TerminalEmulator
[12:08] <well_laid_lawn> check exo-preferred-applications then - you run that from a terminal
[12:08] <kvarley> well_laid_lawn: FIxed it
[12:09] <well_laid_lawn> well done
[12:09] <kvarley> well_laid_lawn: Went to Menu>Settings>Settings Manager>Preferred Applications then on the Utilities tab I set it back to xfce4-terminal
[12:09] <kvarley> well_laid_lawn: ty
[12:34] <n2diy> I helping a friend, he lost his panel, when he types "xorg-panel" it returns "command not found"? Help.
[12:39] <bzrk> n2diy: apt-get install xfce4-panel
[12:40] <n2diy> bzrk, ok, it's installed, just needs to be restarted, so xfce4-panel should do the trick, thanks.
[12:41] <well_laid_lawn> !panel | for future reference
[12:42] <n2diy> well_laid_lawn, he's a newbie, I'm not sure he's ready for that, thanks.
[12:43] <well_laid_lawn> not ready for hitting Alt+F2 ?
[12:43] <well_laid_lawn> ;)
[12:44] <n2diy> and then alt-f7 to get back to X
[12:44] <well_laid_lawn> alt+f2 is the run dialog
[12:44] <well_laid_lawn> ctrl+alt+f2 is the tty
[12:45] <well_laid_lawn> then alt+f7 to get back
[12:50] <Sysi> rm -rf ~/.cache/sessions and unchecking save session in logout window to get panel on next login
[13:25] <craigbass1976> I can't log in.  I click a name, type a password, see a bit of a black screen, and then get bounced back into the login.  Another user can log in fine.
[13:25] <TheSheep> craigbass1976: check your .xsessionerrors in your home
[13:26] <craigbass1976> Thanks.  Rot owned it for some reason.
[13:27] <craigbass1976> root
[13:49] <kvarley> How can I enable Ctrl + F4 to close tabs in XUbuntu?
[14:31] <jadoe> kvarley: if you find out, please tell me
[15:52] <diarmuid> Is there any word processor for XUbuntu that will open in MS word as I need to do some college assignments at home but be able to print them and college which uses MS Word 2007?
[15:53] <holstein> diarmuid: i would try openoffice
[15:53] <holstein> libreoffice actually
[15:54] <holstein> its in the repos... you can install it however you install software...
[15:54] <holstein> software center.. synaptic, the terminal
[15:54] <Sysi> abiword by default should work, just use .doc
[15:54] <Sysi> installed by default I mean
[15:55] <diarmuid> Okay well I will give it a try and see if they are compatible for just text no formatting other than bolding and font size, maybe images. Thanks for the help
[15:55] <Sysi> if you need exact formatting, get MS office or a printer, though it should work okay
[15:56] <diarmuid> Does MS office work on Xubuntu??
[15:57] <Sysi> not easily if at all, but most printers do I think :P
[15:57] <holstein> theres nothing ubuntu/linux does to prevent microsoft from creating a version for linux
[15:58] <holstein> http://www.codeweavers.com/ works
[16:00] <Sysi> but see if abiword or libreoffice fills your need, LO even supports .docx
[16:00] <holstein> yeah... maybe even google docs if you arent opposed to that
[16:03] <diarmuid> thanks
[16:40] <p0six> hi!
[16:41] <p0six> in the first live boot my function keys worked
[16:41] <p0six> but on the later ones they aren't working anymore
[16:41] <p0six> :]
[16:42] <p0six> I mean the fn key
[16:42] <p0six> I could increase/decrease the brightness sound etc
[16:42] <p0six> but it ins't working after the first boot
[16:43] <holstein> i would want to try some other known good live CD and confirm its not the keyboard/hardware
[16:43] <p0six> I only have one xubuntu iso burned into my usb
[16:43] <p0six> yes the fn keys are working fine in windows
[16:44] <p0six> they worked the first time
[16:45] <p0six> but after a reboot they aren't anymore
[16:45] <p0six> I do have a persistent space setup
[16:45] <p0six> think some settings sticked in and disabled them?
[16:50] <p0six> :]
[16:57] <p0six> hello again!
[16:57] <p0six> so should I rewrite the iso to usb?
[17:06] <recon_lap> p0six: are you booting from the usb all the time?
[17:06] <p0six> yes
[17:09] <recon_lap> p0six: probably best to try fix the problem then as it likely to come back
[17:10] <recon_lap> p0six: this might be helpfull http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=903190
[17:23] <n2diy> I had the option to encrypt /home home during install, and now i wish i did, is there a way to do it now?
[17:23] <holstein> n2diy: check out https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EncryptedHome
[17:35] <n2diy> holstein, ok, thanks.
[17:55] <cybro> Does anyone uses deluge ?
[17:55] <Unit193> Don't ask to about, just ask and wait for someone to respond (can take a bit)
[17:57] <p0six> hello again!
[17:57] <p0six> sorry for that,had a power outage
[17:57] <p0six> :(
[17:57] <recon_lap> though working conditions p0six
[17:57] <recon_lap> tough !!
[17:58] <p0six> what?
[17:58] <p0six> I didn't understand what you mean :]
[17:59] <recon_lap> no power, tough/hard to work with computer , just spelled tough wrong first time
[17:59] <p0six> oh
[17:59] <p0six> :]
[18:00] <p0six> is there some nice way other than vm to install xubuntu into my system without actually hurting me windows?
[18:00] <baizon> yes, install it side by side
[18:00] <baizon> on a seperate partition
[18:01] <p0six> erm no
[18:01] <p0six> I am not talking about duel boot
[18:01] <holstein> theres VM, wubi and dualboot p0six
[18:02] <holstein> wubi is not all that great, but try it if you like
[18:02] <p0six> wubi from xubuntu iso isn't helping
[18:02] <p0six> it has two options "Demo & Full install"
[18:02] <p0six> and "Learn more about xubuntu"
[18:03] <holstein> if you have USB boo, you can install to a USB stick, or external USB hard drive, put the grub bootloader out on that device and the windows install is unchanged
[18:03] <p0six> "Demo & Full install" tells me to boot from cd
[18:03] <p0six> holstein: yes I was thinking of that sort
[18:03] <p0six> I only know how to write a iso into usb
[18:03] <p0six> installing it on usb is beyond my knowledge
[18:03] <holstein> p0six: wubi just installs 'inside' windows
[18:03] <p0six> is that possible?
[18:04] <holstein> p0six: this is all open.. literally anything is possible, including you totally breaking your install of windows
[18:04] <holstein> i say, decide *exactly* what you want to do, and go from there
[18:04] <Sysi> if you can unplug your HDD and maybe even if you can't
[18:04] <holstein> yeah, i used to do that... just pul the cable on the hard drive, install to USB
[18:05] <Sysi> usb can be as slow as VM
[18:05] <holstein> like Sysi suggests ^^
[18:05] <p0six> nah,am trying to learn this thing,before am totally familiar with it I don't want to commit it to my hdd
[18:05] <holstein> p0six: then do VM.. or wubi
[18:05] <p0six> usb install seems quite tempting in such case
[18:05] <p0six> wait
[18:05] <Sysi> holstein: I'm not sure if you can make installer to see usb drive if you have sata/ide plugged in
[18:06] <holstein> Sysi: i have
[18:06] <p0six> btw I can't pull the hdd plug,its a laptop fyi
[18:06] <holstein> p0six: yeah.. i did that on my EEE netbooks
[18:06] <holstein> p0six: you *can* if you want
[18:06] <holstein> you dont have to though... just try wubi i say... thats easily reversable and doesnt hurt anything
[18:07] <p0six> wait
[18:07] <p0six> let me find this dirty wubi first
[18:07] <p0six> *direct
[18:09] <p0six> erm what happens when I install via wubi?
[18:09] <p0six> can I uninstall it later if I want to?
[18:09] <holstein> p0six: it installs inside windows pretty much
[18:09] <holstein> doesnt change the boot loader
[18:10] <p0six> and?
[18:10] <Sysi> it's like an application in windows (AFAIK)
[18:10] <holstein> doesnt partition or format... you can remove it like a windows application
[18:10] <p0six> 0.0 oh no! that sounds too perfect
[18:10] <p0six> whaats the catch?
[18:10] <holstein> p0six: correct.. theres literally not reason not to try it
[18:11] <holstein> p0six: is sucks a little sometimes... it can be slower... and if you want to move it into a normal install, its a drag
[18:11] <p0six> but how do I boot it then if there's no particular boot loader pointing at it?
[18:11] <holstein> p0six: for you.. no catch
[18:11] <holstein> p0six: the windows one boots it
[18:11] <p0six> and?
[18:11] <holstein> thats it man.. the windows one boot its up
[18:11] <holstein> you get booted into it... you use it
[18:11] <holstein> if you remove it, the entry goes away... thats it
[18:12] <p0six> entry?
[18:12] <holstein> p0six: the entry in the windows bootloader that is made to boot the wubi installation of linux you are discussing
[18:12] <holstein> that will be removed if you remove the wubi install
[18:13] <p0six> ah
[18:13] <p0six> sounds all fine with me
[18:13] <p0six> :]
[18:13] <holstein> but, dual booting is the way to go... if you *dont* have your data backed up, and you have no plan for recovering windows.. this would be a great time to do that
[18:13] <holstein> that hard drive *will* fail
[18:13] <p0six> er why will that harddrive fail?
[18:13] <holstein> p0six: they all do
[18:13] <p0six> its a new laptop
[18:13] <p0six> !!
[18:14] <Sysi> because you don't have backup :p
[18:14] <holstein> yeah.. doesnt matter they all fail
[18:14] <Sysi> I'm not very big fan of dualbooting, but neither fan of wubi
[18:14] <Sysi> see if latter suits your needs
[18:15] <holstein> i think its better than wubi.. but its so easy to undo...
[18:15] <p0six> I believe one os system is better
[18:16] <holstein> the os's dont care... and the hard drive doesnt either.. do what you feel comfortable with
[18:16] <p0six> when am well versed and my isp modems start rolling out linux cm I'll switch maybe
[18:16] <p0six> :]
[18:16] <p0six> till then I think I'll wubi put xubuntu here
[18:17] <holstein> whatever you do... just get your backup scenario in order... no matter what OS you are running, the hard drive is going to fail
[18:17] <recon_lap> p0six: ask your isp for a router
[18:17] <p0six> heh,holstein is good at frightening ppl
[18:18] <p0six> recon_lap: its a wimax isp
[18:18] <p0six> 4g thingy
[18:18] <p0six> you plug in lame ax326 and voila!
[18:18] <holstein> p0six: im not frightened.. my data is backed up... i speak not of fear.. only truth
[18:21] <p0six> so howmuch installation size is recommended?
[18:21] <p0six> its selected to 18GB
[18:21] <p0six> wubi
[18:21] <Sysi> minimum of 5GB, better to have at least 10
[18:23] <p0six> I have 4 108GB empty drives
[18:23] <p0six> 4x108GB
[18:24] <holstein> wubi lets you point to where ever you like
[18:24] <holstein> as long as you realize the speed effect running from USB
[18:24] <p0six> ?
[18:24] <p0six> speed?
[18:24] <holstein> p0six: USB will be slower
[18:24] <p0six> erm am installing in hdd
[18:24] <holstein> p0six: cool
[18:25] <p0six> tho usb boot wasn't as slow as you make it sound
[18:25] <p0six> that was fast enough
[18:25] <holstein> if you point wubi to an external USB drive, which is what im assuming you are talking about since this is a laptop
[18:25] <holstein> the speed would be slower... from USB
[18:25] <p0six> I am pointing at my internal hdd,as you said I can uninstall it anytime
[18:25] <p0six> :]
[18:25] <p0six> safer
[18:25] <p0six> I have a live bootable usb already
[18:26] <Sysi> usb sticks are slower than hdd trough usb, but I like SSD fast
[18:26] <holstein> right.. and thats USB... so it'll be slower than the internal hard drive would be
[18:26] <p0six> *sigh*
[18:27] <holstein> p0six: yeah.. me too.. enjoy!
[18:28] <p0six> what?
[18:29] <p0six> that was fast
[18:29] <p0six> asking me to reboot now
[18:29] <p0six> :]
[19:47] <p0six> hello again!
[19:47] <p0six> :]
[20:30] <beata1> I'm attempting to learn how to adjust the icon sizes in the applets on my panel and am admittedly lost. I've been able to discover that I need gtkrc settings, but I'm unsure of which settings or which configuration file. Each applet appears to have a different icon size, as does the panel itself.
[22:02] <Starn> wassup everyone
[22:02] <Starn> opps wrong chang
[22:57] <methodx> sup
[23:51] <willijs3> Hello!
[23:51] <willijs3> Does anyone know if I can modify the "indicator plugin" in the panel. I want to get rid of the envelope.
[23:52] <willijs3> I can't seem to find it though
[23:57] <willijs3> Hate to be annoying, but Does anyone know if I can modify the "indicator plugin" in the panel. I want to get rid of the envelope.
[23:58] <robin_> Hi, newbie just arrived, doing chat for the first time!  Courageously - or foolishly - testing Xubu 12.04!
[23:59] <willijs3> Welcome