 tg://join?invite=Baj4lhJ4XRotoeGk1QxuRQ
 @Wildnislehrer, He can try Meizu Pro 5 and install UT
 wondering if Google Treble will be a good thing for projects like UBports
 I noticed no Korean keyboard? Any idea how to make Korean language work on UT? Works on Ubuntu desktop...
 Hey, is it possible to use python-tk in UT? (With clickable)
[06:31] <tgBot> deepu11 was added by: deepu11
 @BlueKenny, if tkinder uses qt5 bindings then ues
 or if it uses gtk2 bindings then also yes, but via xmir
 and xmir scenario os not clickable
 afaik there is no way to make click app use xmir
 on ut
 if it was possible i would love to ise it
 @KrisJacewicz, Thank you :) … i'm going to learn QML 🙈
 @KrisJacewicz, Can't you just add the xmir parts to a launch script which your desktop file calls? something like … ```Xmir -rootless :2 … export DISPLAY=:2 … exec @``` … And then in your desktop file add … ```X-Ubuntu-Touch=true … X-Ubuntu-XMir-Enable=true … Exec=/launchscript myapp``` … I would have thought this should work
 @DanChapman, brilliant workaround, love it!
 will test
 how about :2 part, is it like a constant or every time xmir runs it uses out one display from the pool?
 @DanChapman, ah I just remembered what was th problem from the past (I actually tired that, except the parts in the script, which i really thank you for):
 the problem was that click upon installation generates .desktop fle at ~/.local/share/applications/ and your X-Ubuntu-* flags WON'T be preserved in that generated launcher
 that was the problem I faced
 i don't even think it is a bug, rather a lack of feature in click logic
 not sure
 @deepu11, Hello deepu and welcome!  I'm part of the UBports welcoming team.    … To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
 @DanChapman thank you for the Dekko 2update 😎
 What's new?
 And thanks to the core debs for clock and camera paps for improving!
 *developers *apps 😁
 @KrisJacewicz ah i see there is some troubles there. Some possible good new though. There was a patch in xenial which enables ubuntu-app-launch to start apps with xmir https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/tickets?search=2531 so once we have some xenial based devices, things should get a bit easier for you. Although looking at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfAlgJtqSLM i see there are some gtk apps there running on mir. So maybe you won't even need xmir o
 @DanChapman, wow, great news in deed!!!
 I mean, that would be HUGE news for everything that I do if gtk could run directly on mir, man I would start making apps like crazy! hehe
 and would start talking to Lazarus community to get involved as well, I'm sure they'd have good number of people interested in it
 @KrisJacewicz, Lazarus can bind QT5 as well, but I was not successful with it, because apparently Lazarus bindings require min qt5.6, but even when that requirement gets fulfilled, I still don't know if qt on UT is fully binary compatible with equivalent on xorg, if yes, than that would be good news for Lazarus as well.  … Some of my apps do graphic rendering, and in such case xmir is too slow for me. That will also be a bottleneck for others
[08:19] <tgBot> use whatever language/ide to make their gtk apps. That is why I am interested in trying out xwayland, because AFAIK it really is NOT like xmir, except purpose-wise, but not under the hood. xwayland has no hw acceleration for rendering either, but at least it supports glamor (https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/Glamor/)
 however, if gtk were to be supported natively in mir, then whoah, the possibilities are endless!
 hmm the gtk mir integration isnt that much code
 but it is in a bad state..
 I spent some time working on it.. but that was at a time when we also reworked the buffer ownership in mir.
 This is all I know in the subject: … https://developer.gnome.org/gtk3/stable/gtk-mir.html
 but apparently UT does not have this port included (I'm talking 15.04), not on my end
 http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~attente/gtk/gtk-mir/files/head:/debian/patches/ and http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~attente/gtk/mir-copy-paste/files/head:/debian/patches/ is probably the most recent status
 there should be proper git repo somewher
 (Photo, 768x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/PQgkOM0u/file_2458.jpg so my UT does not have this
 @anpok, can you install this with apt-get?
 I am not sure about dependencies..
 @anpok, I wonder if installing mir's gtk backend would or would not conflick with also existing on ut backend for x, do you know if that'd be an issue?
 could both backends co-exist?
 yes they would
 in the end you control that via the environment
 I'm willing and ready to test drive it, could you suggest initial steps?
 I mean, to install that backend on my ut?
 figure out which gtk version is in the ppa/15.04 .. and whether there are matching gdk-mir patches for that gtk version
 @anpok, I only need to install the patches, no need to install some initial libraries fisrt?
 these patches will add mir support onto the original gtk libraries?
 also is gtk+ a synonym for gtk3?
 or only gtk2?
 or both?
 found this: … "GTK/GTK+ and GTK2 are different versions of the same API. GTK is an old, deprecated version, GTK2 is the previous one, GTK+ 3/GTK3 is the current version. … GTK+ is the correct name of the old API, but most people just call it GTK. … The C++ bindings for GTK+ are part of the project GTKmm." … source: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/5830731/what-is-the-relation-between-gtk-gtk-and-gtk2
 no the patches are the differences between the specific upstream mir integration of gdk and the current state of development at that time
 so those patches will not work with the 15.04 version of gtk
 @anpok, seems like it's gtk+3.0 3.14.12-0ubuntu2 … source: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/vivid/+source/gtk+3.0
 ahh now I remember why we did not enable the mir backend..
 cairo has (or hopefully had) some annoying limitation wrt to byte ordering
 and the android gles drivers could not match the color channel order
 so that remains unresolved?
 @anpok, you mean little endian vs big endian?
 or color format?
 GL_RGBA GL_ABGR GL_BGRA .. or GL_ARGB .. insanity..
 I see
 but wondering, since cairo works on arm linux under x, so that problem is only regarding translating these to gles calls?
 *gles calls on android?
 yes
 but would a static mapping table solve that?
 or was figuring the mapping the problem?
 some inconsistencies?
 if I had some guidance I would even be willing to try to figure such mapping experimentally
 if that would bring gtk to mir, I would love to help
 perhaps even I could figure out a routine to run during initialization, that runs tests to figure out the mapping automatically
 test based, call gles apis with different mappings until the results are valid for used input, and then remember that mapping for use aftr the initialization
 @wayneoutthere, At the pull down menu it allows you to select any language but in keyboard settings only a few are implemented. In principle it shouldn't be complicated to add more but I have no idea how to do that. Adding all would bloat the system
 with just a little guidance I could take the work off someone else's shoulders, but I need help in setting up the environment for testing, and some list of APIs to translate between gtk and gles
 @KrisJacewicz, Hey Kris, I am trying to run KeePass2 off my phone with X forwarding. I am getting  … X11 forwarding request failed on channel 0 …  What am I missing?
 @delijati, Ok. Thanks. I'll try.
 @TomasOqvist, idk, but I can try to troubleshoot you, how did you install KeyPass2, with apt-get or sth else?
 I will get it on my ut as well and see if I can run it
 @KrisJacewicz, apt-get and then edited the desktop file
 the package name?
 keepass2
 $ apt-get install keypass … or sth else?
 ok, bare with me
 apt-get install keypass2
 sorry keepass2
 (Photo, 724x463) https://irc.ubports.com/msnddaqA/file_2460.jpg mono runtime part
 (Video, 143s)https://irc.ubports.com/T0rH34f6/file_2461.mp4 I think it's related to mono
 Install the native version
 I believe it was keepassx2
 @vanyasem, +1
 screw Mono
 yes it works!
 ☺
 (Photo, 1280x720) https://irc.ubports.com/3fXCVlNg/file_2463.jpg $ sudo apt-get install keepassx
 Ok, so install keepassx instead and edit the desktop file?
 you can also try keepassxc (I think it has a better gui)
 nah.. quite similar, sorry
 (Photo, 768x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/An1b0AMu/file_2465.jpg i installed natve version
 (Photo, 768x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/oy0sjBHB/file_2467.jpg this is without wm
 (Photo, 768x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/QwB69p9r/file_2469.jpg and this is with wm
 if you still hv a problem let me know I'll get you thru ;)
 Yes, keepassx works, but I need to export my kdbx database to one compatible with keepassx. Also, starting it locally only shows half of the app in the top right corner of the phone.
[09:51] <PureTryOut[m]> @KrisJacewicz: may I ask, why do you have 2 Telegram launchers on your phone?
 @TomasOqvist, because you do not run it with a wm, if you do then you get it fullscreen, see my 2 case scenarios above with screenshots
 @PureTryOut[m], one is on th ephone, another is just a launcher that starts Telegram from my Ubuntu desktop over WiFi onto my phone
 keepass2 is better as it uses later and more secure file format I think. Seems I have to export to KeePass 1.x format, which isn't supported in Ubuntu version of KeePass2.
 the one that has (x86_64) added in the name
 @KrisJacewicz, How do I run it with wm?
 @TomasOqvist, one step at a time, perhaps keepassx2 is available just not in the official repos, try asking goole ;)
 @KrisJacewicz, He he, I turn out to be just as impatient as you are...
 @TomasOqvist, I call bash wrapper from my .desktop launcher, so I have wrapper at /usr/bin/start-keepassx, and the actual launcher at /usr/share/applications/keepass2.desktop, let me show you...
 (Photo, 768x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/7HHjx7zU/file_2471.jpg this is my wrapper script
 (Photo, 768x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/ctippMgB/file_2473.jpg and this is my launcher
 BUT, you need to have wm installed first, I am using matchbox
[09:56] <PureTryOut[m]> @KrisJacewicz ooh that is pretty cool actually. I assume that's with all your `(x86_64)` launchers then?
 $ sudo apt-get install matchbox … *approx 30* MB
[09:56] <PureTryOut[m]> also, I recommend KeepassXC over KeepassX
 @PureTryOut[m], correct, I wrote about it and demoed: http://kriscode.blogspot.tw/2017/11/desktop-apps-on-ubuntu-phone.html
[09:57] <PureTryOut[m]> cool!
 @TomasOqvist, also in this article you actually will find all these things explained, even though it talks about Lazarus IDE, but the xmir setup is explained in great detail: http://kriscode.blogspot.tw/2017/11/lazarus-on-arm-ubuntu.html
 @KrisJacewicz, MISS Mir Scopes Suck... lol😂
 @KrisJacewicz, Ok, I think I already installed matchbox. I'll try that.
 @PureTryOut[m], Can it read .kdbx files?
 @SergioSRM, off course scopes don't suck, just that I'm aversed to them, it's putely subjective ;)
 Keepassxc is the one i reommend too
 (Photo, 768x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/frUtu6rG/file_2475.jpg that's what I use instead, it actually uses my ~/Desktop for content, and will soon add folder support
 uploading a video showing it in action
 unfortunately because of xmir slow renderring it is less spectacular than it could be, I had to give up on fancy animation effects
 so I want a normal desktop experience, not an app scope
 and I want to see my wallpaper, otherwise it doesn't matter that I can have one set !
 so right now I'm uploading a video showcasing how my UT looks like from login to actually seeing and using this replacement for scopes
 so the way it works is that I now only show icons from my actual Desktop folder (which btw is missing in UT by default), and not all the apps. You can decide yourself what to have on your desktop and what not to have
 also, I will add a dash-like experience
 so you can start apps that are not on your desktop
 like on Ubuntu Desktop
 currently dash doesn't happen on UT, just brings scopes to the front
[10:13] <PureTryOut[m]> @TomasOqvist yeah it can, like KeepassX. KeepassXC is basically KeepassX, but actually supported by more than 1 developer
 @KrisJacewicz, please compress your videos
 I don't feel like downloading 90 mb files :)
 @vanyasem, when I send them from mobile it doesn't show me that option
 only on desktop, sorry
 use ffmpeg
 I'll download onto my desktop and resend compressed
 Ok, this doesn't look good: … Error http://repo.ubports.com vivid/main armhf Packages …   Could not get status - stat (2: No such file or directory)
 @KrisJacewicz, I cannot remember if that was a problem of cairo then trying to render in software.. or having artefacts because a differen byte order is expected..
 @vanyasem, well that is not viable fo rme, because Isent that vid from my android phone telegram
 While sudo apt update on the phone
 @KrisJacewicz, oh, then it should have that option. it was there for abes
 (Photo, 622x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/0EyrnmfQ/file_2477.jpg
 @anpok, well, I'm interested in helping, but I'm not capable of starting this effort without some initial help
 @vanyasem, I'll look into it
 hm get the code .. enable the mir backend.
 hmm
 first find the right code :)
 then see what happens
 @TomasOqvist, It worked after 'sudo mount -o remount,rw /'
 @TomasOqvist, off course :P
 But it fails to update the repo 'ppa:phoerious/keepassxc', although it installs fine.
 So I can't install keepassxc.
 @TomasOqvist, by "installs fine" you mean it enlists that repo, off course it doesn, you can enlist anything, even verses from your favorite song
 probably that repo does not provide packages for arm, or not for vivid
 but if it has sources you can buildd it yourself
 @KrisJacewicz, Ok, so I will have to stick with keepassx then I guess...
 @TomasOqvist, unless you build it from sources
 here: https://github.com/keepassxreboot/keepassxc
 @KrisJacewicz, Yeah, I might give it a go.
 @TomasOqvist, I have to build on the phone or can I do it from my Ubuntu 16.04 desktop?
 $ sudo apt-get install git … $ git clone https://github.com/keepassxreboot/keepassxc.git keepassxc-src … $ cd keepassxc-src … $ mkdir build … $ cd build … $ cmake -DWITH_XC_AUTOTYPE=ON -DWITH_XC_HTTP=ON -DWITH_XC_YUBIKEY=ON -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=Release .. … $ make -j4 … $ DESTDIR=~/.local install
 and since it uses qt5, it should run natively in mir (in theory
 @TomasOqvist, you can do either, or even on raspberry pi. … - On the desktop you need to build it in architectural chroot … - on the phone you may be missing qt5 dev packages needed for building … - on raspi you can do all the compiling easy, then move compiled app to your ut
 if you build it on desktop but not with architectural chroot you will end up building desktop version, unusable on the phone
 ie cmake is missing on ut
 $ sudo apt-get install cmake … some extra ~20MB
 and there might be more, so architectural chroot or raspi could be your best choice, unless you want to challenge yourself :D
 (Photo, 724x463) https://irc.ubports.com/lusSo9qT/file_2479.jpg yup, not straightforward to build it on the phone, unless you hv newer cmake than in the repos (or you're on 16.04)
 CMake Error: CMake was unable to find a build program corresponding to "Unix Makefiles".  CMAKE_MAKE_PROGRAM is not set.  You probably need to select a different build tool.
 you probably also missing basic tools
 $ sudo apt-get install build-essential
 I have compilers on my ut already so I have these basic things, but you probably don't
 cmake from sources: https://cmake.org/install/
 I may try this on raspi when time permits
 Uhm, this is getting complicated... Got past cmake command, but not make -j4
 Or, I mean I got the same as you above
 @TomasOqvist, well, I got even less forward than you so cant help, cuz I don't know what problems are behind
 but I guess missing dev packages, including for qt5
 ah ok, so not yet actually in make
 What about space on the phone? I now have: … Filesystem                      Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on … udev                            1,3G  4,0K  1,3G   1% /dev … tmpfs                           287M  1,1M  286M   1% /run … /dev/mmcblk0p28                  55G  4,1G   49G   8% /userdata … /dev/loop0                      2,0G  1,9G     0 100% / … /dev/loop1                      118M  113M  4,1M  97% /android/system … none
[10:33] <tgBot>   4,0K     0  4,0K   0% /android … tmpfs                           1,4G  4,0K  1,4G   1% /etc/fstab … tmpfs                           1,4G  1,1M  1,4G   1% /var/lib/lxc/android/rootfs … /dev/disk/by-partlabel/cache    504M  9,6M  495M   2% /android/cache … /dev/disk/by-partlabel/modem     64M   57M  7,9M  88% /android/firmware … /dev/disk/by-partlabel/persist  4,9M  4,2M  760K  85% /android/persist … none                            4,0K     0  4,0
[10:33] <tgBot> tmpfs                           1,4G   84K  1,4G   1% /tmp … none                            5,0M     0  5,0M   0% /run/lock … cgmfs                           100K     0  100K   0% /run/cgmanager/fs … none                            1,4G  112K  1,4G   1% /run/shm … none                            100M     0  100M   0% /run/user … tmpfs                           1,4G     0  1,4G   0% /media … tmpfs                           1,4G  4,0K  1,4G   1% /v
[10:33] <tgBot>                  287M     0  287M   0% /run/user/0 … tmpfs                           287M   40K  287M   1% /run/user/32011
 btw, if you insist to make this on dsktop (ie you don't have raspi), then remember, don't use qemu-system-arm, it is limited in that it can supply maximum of 256MB RAM into the chroot. Use architectural chroot instead. … 1. the qemu-system-arm (limited memory) tutorials here: http://kriscode.blogspot.tw/2016/12/easy-containers-on-ubuntu-touch.html … 2. architectural chroot covered here:
[10:35] <tgBot> http://kriscode.blogspot.tw/2017/11/telegram-on-arm-raspi-and-ubuntu-touch-1.html
 *Ad 1. I showed debootstrap on ut, but you do it on esktop exactly same way, and end up having arm chroot on your intel host
 @TomasOqvist, yes you need to take care of that
 there are multiple ways
 I move some stuff into the userspace and symlink it back to the original place
 at least stuff I apt-get install, but you can also use this to move some of the staff that came with the image by default
 I moved my entire /usr/share content into my userspace
 So that would be … sudo mv /usr/share /userdata/usr/share … ln -s /usr/share /userdata/usr/share  … ?
 I did like so: … $ mkdir ~/.hdd … $ sudo cp -a /usr/share ~/.hdd/ … $ sudo rm -r /usr/share … $ sudo ln -s /home/phablet/.hdd/share /usr/share … BUT be AWARE: it gets risky, you can skip the rm -r /usr/bin part, you will not regain any space, but you will not add anything into that either, but then you cannot ln -s to /usr/share unless: … a) you rename it to sth else, or … b) you mount new location over the old instead on using sy
[10:47] <tgBot> because I don't hv to deal with /etc/fstab or other scripts
 cp -a - t prevail all the original priviledges etc
 regular mv/cp will screw you up with these ;)
 it's a tricky terrain to walk on, but can be rewarded with plenty of space to apt-get install stuff :D
 Hm, will it mess up coming OTA updates?
 @TomasOqvist, no, the OTA will just overwrite it, and your /usr/share in the userspace will be of no use any longer, you can delete it completely
 then you can redo the steps all over again
 You mean it needs to be repeated after each OTA update?
 @TomasOqvist, precisely, it is a non-persistent technique
 Ok, and the other options to regain space that you were thinking of? (Sorry for bothering you about this)
 if you want persistent technique, I'd suggest another approach, just move into your userspace apps only, not the stuff that your OTA image has shipped with
 and in your user autostart or user cronjob or anything in the userspace, add script that checks if the symlinking is in effect or not, and i not, re-does it
 That is /usr/share/applications and those that I installed myself?
 @TomasOqvist, not any fixed path, just whatever is added when you apt-get install, case by case I'm affraid, no generic way to rule them all
 @KrisJacewicz, Thanks, where do the click installs reside?
 what I do, I repackage my apps completely for userspace, let's say Geany, i downloaded deb: … $ apt-get download geany … and I extracted it in my home, then I created single .sh script that symlinks the content onto my system image, so I can put this Geany folder ANY place I so desire (obviously I do it under my home directory somewhere), and then enetr that location and: … $ sudo install.sh … (I also have uninstall.sh script just for t
[10:57] <tgBot> symlinks hings on the fly. So after OTA I just need to re-enter that folder and re-run install.sh … HOWEVER, I can install user's cron job that runs the script, and after OTA update it will still be in effect (the cronjob). Or some other user's autostart, bash rc or whatever
 @KrisJacewicz, And those can also be moved to /userdata?
 @TomasOqvist, hahah, these already ARE in the userspace
 that's why they persist between OTA updates
 @KrisJacewicz, Bear with me, I am a novice 😄
 cd into that location and you'll notice it is already writable
 @TomasOqvist, no sweat
 plus, you're already hacking ut, so I'm all happy to bear with you :D
 But my problem with lack of space remains, and I don't have that many apt-get installs in /usr/share
 @TomasOqvist, off course, because ut image by default has very little space left, it's not what UT makers anticipate that users will apt-get things
 that's why as long as you remount / to writable, you're already hacking ut, using it differently than intended
 but that's where ut actually becomes of value :D
 But wait, my mc install has persisted through OTA updates??
 otherwise it can only do less of what other mobile OSes can do
 @TomasOqvist, very hard to believe
 @KrisJacewicz, I have only installed once, and update devel every day and it is still there.
 @TomasOqvist, sudo apt-get upgrade is not same as OTA update
 OTA update rewrites/overrides your entire system partition
 otherwise I myself am missing something here
 (Photo, 717x239) https://irc.ubports.com/liMccnHi/file_2481.jpg No, I do it from System Settings app
 so always oublecheck what I or others say
 From what I understand of it an OTA will only bork apt installs if it touches/replaces files that the deb package either installed or depended on. I have some modifications to the dash that never get overwritten as those qml files never change
 could it be that new OTA includes it? that would be a shocker since UT team is reluctant to add packages to default image and mc I think would not be regarded by them as crucial, esp that even terminal app is not included by default
 yay, I can print documents straight from my Ubuntu phone 😎
 @samitormanen, How?
 @DanChapman, well than OTA is much more intelligent than I thought, and I am sincerely impressed
 @TomasOqvist, from command line
 @samitormanen, :D
 Hey … It is possible to install desktop version of Google Chrome on UT (like keepass) … If one had chrome one could install ARC Welder Extension and run Android Apps (including WhatsApp...) on UT
 @KrisJacewicz, Well, if space is as limited as it seems on my phone...
 @samitormanen, Sample command pls?
 @unknown, if by "desktop version" you mean intel version then not. … If you mean non-mir version, then yes.
 @samitormanen, This sound Great Sami
 ACTUALLY - i don't know about Chrome, but CHromium most certainly yes, I have
 it wont work without installing and configuring things. but now I can print a document just by typing "lp document.txt"
 and it is network printer
 @samitormanen, share conf flow, and I'll make UI for it
 @samitormanen, Naturally...
 @KrisJacewicz, Since chromium is very similar to chrome it might work - somebody should test it 🤔
 @unknown, what I mean is that IDK whether or not Chrome is released for ARM linux
 but Chromium is
 @KrisJacewicz, i write some howto if someone wants to try it 😆
 @samitormanen, 👍
 Chrome similarity is because Chrome is based off of Chromium, not even sure if it is available as source code, or only binary version, Chrome = Chromium+Google's proprietary stuff on top of it
 Quick question, does someone know how to easily ssh into UT from my laptop via USB?
 @samitormanen, thenshare it with me in pm so it doesn't get lost in the history by the time I hv free hours to sit down to it
 @peternerlich, use screen maybe, haven't tried but in theory should work
 your usb supports serial connection
 @KrisJacewicz, ok.
 lots of embedded systems work that way
 @KrisJacewicz, Raspberry Pi = UT?
 i do it with single board computers, you need to use data capable usb cable naturally
 @unknown, nope, raspberry pi is hardware, UT is software, but also raspi supports multiple OS distributions, including Ubuntu Core and Ubuntu with Mate Desktop, but not Ubuntu Touch
 YT could be ported to raspi, but currently UT apparently is investing in things like hallium which means it will depend on android kernel, that is adirection away from raspi, unless there is modern android for it, which perhaps there is but I don't know
 @KrisJacewicz, Yes but if a software runs on RasPi (raspbian) would it also run on UT
 and it would be interesting, becaus ethen you'd hv UT on a regular monitor, wonder how it would look like, should be exactly same as Mir desktop on intel based laptop/pc
 @unknown, depends, if it is a software compiled for ARM linux then yes, given that UT provides all dependencies
 raspi is hardware, it can run ARM native machine code, but executable files are also compiled against OS, not only against CPU
 Okay I see
 so ARM Linux is the common ground on which both UT as well ass Linux based distros available for raspi grow
 raspbian is not same as raspi, one is OS another is HW
 raspbian is debian based
 generally compatible with UT, so it's all about dependencies then
 but more or less yes, same
 if you use Ubuntu on raspi then you get even more compatibility
 your executables will be valid, but the dependencies (libraries that are linked dynamically at runtime) might not be available on UT, you can always distribute them with your app in one bundle, then yes, you achieve full compatibility
 but even then there is GUI related problem, if the app is GUI, whgat widgetset it uses is another limitation
 currently ut supports qt5 and gkt+/gtk2 via xmir
 but gtk3 doesn't start on the phone via xmir (does start over ssh with x forwarding though)
 and qt4 i hv no idea
 So does this tutorial on how to install Chrome on Raspbian also work on UT? … https://www.linux.com/blog/run-google-chrome-raspberry-pi
 so things like that
 @unknown, yes but not sufficient, UT will require additional steps
 for example UT has read-only filesystem, which raspi does not have so you won't see that addressed on that tutorial
 Ever heard of ExaGear?
 also, at the end, if you also wish to use chrome on the phone's screen, you will need to modify the .desktop launcher, but ssh scenario does not depend on it
 @unknown, yes, I even mentionned them on my blog and contacted about supporting UT, let me find their reply
 deleted, but basically they responded asking why would they support a dead platform
 I replied, but no hearing from them since
 that was very recently
 @unknown, In this tutorial they use ExaGear to run x86 Chrome version on a RasPi … If this worked or could be implemented on UT we could also run Android Apps
 @unknown, well yes, but exagear does not support UT atm, and also...
 ExaGear itself introduces performance penalty, it is advertised to reach up to 80% of native performance, but that's just a maximum used in marketing, although they have super confident claim that it's much faster than qemu. … Now, xmir, on top of that, is yet another level of performance penalty. I'm talking about speed of rendering out the GUI
 Okay and ARC Welder will slow down again
 I may try exagear on plasma mobile, as xwayland it does not have limitations that xmir has (from what I was told/explained) so that might be viable environment for exagear, we'll see
 if your far goal is to run android app s on UT, then you'd want as little layer in between with performance penalty as possible, study into the case ob BB supporting android apps, their approach was sth you could look into
 but as inneficient as it may prove with xmir, you could in theory do android with qemu: http://www.upubuntu.com/2012/03/how-to-install-android-x86-40-using.html
 It was just an idea when I read about ARC Welder...
 the only culprit: this tutorial uses x86 android, you'd want arm android
 your kernel versions would need to be matching, then you shoudl be able to install full android OS into qemu-kvm based vm
 on UT
 I even have a terribly great idea (but I can't make it happen) that perhaps a qt5 ative vnc client could perform better than xmir for such use scenarios
 A full Android OS (including launcher and everything else) might not be the best solution … ARC Welder doesn't do this
 instead of xmir rendering apps into itself with its limitations, a native qt5 vlc client running directly in Mir could do it
 I have to go now - see you later
 take care
 Thank you for your effort
 — is anbox still active?
 @SwizzlaKalongie, TBH We dont know :)
 @SwizzlaKalongie, it is online still, not sure if that means active or not, but more important question is this: does anbox use ARM android, or intel
 @KrisJacewicz, arm.. they say " ... it is specifically built in a device independent way. Anbox will ship with a single Android image per architecture (amd64, armhf, arm64) and no device specifc modifications are required"
 @SwizzlaKalongie, well then, a promising idea!
 however need to find out how will it render out its gui
 xmir? qt5?
 hmm... technical questions... oh well... i'm good at waiting haha
 we'll either get there one day or just won't need android anything by that point
 @KrisJacewicz have you tried to compile anbox for ut or at some arm device ?
 @delijati, no but im interested in it so maybe on thw weekend
 damn, .pdf and .txt files works but .doc files wont print..
 @samitormanen, off course
 pdf is a printing format and txt is raw text
 pdf is like ps, made for print
 so that's why
 doc is interpreted format
 doc viewer interprets it and renders out as it "thinks" it should
 pdf is different, no room for interpretation
 http://resources.printhandbook.com/pages/file-types.php
 ah, ok. that explains it. thanks!
 however some printers have built-in support for doc(x)
 i can print .doc with "catdoc file.doc |lp" but then it is plain text.
 but it's good thing to get something to printed out. 😄 better than nothing.
 @samitormanen, because catdoc only extracts plain text from the internal doc file structure, no formatting
 so printing catdoc is exacrly identical as printing txt
 yep.
 @KrisJacewicz, woah...........  it's hard not to get drawn in by keepassx... !
 @wayneoutthere, Yes, it is a nifty thought to always have your up to date passwords on the phone! But migrating from the database on KeePass2 on my desktop turned out to be more difficult than I thought. Have yet to find an export format that I can oper in KeePassX without getting 'signature error'.
 well, most of what Kris is doing is not possible for guys like me, however, I think Kris is all about the bigger picture and he is motivating people to think and act and get excited and so... neat.
 @wayneoutthere, Very well Wayne I agree with you but for all the non developers!!! Pls be aware this is just hacking to find out what can UT do, what can we expect,,,, There is no intention you and me as non developers with UT daily devices to try it, as you will break very possibly upcoming new OS OTA updates and maybe something else. Be inspired, watch the difference among UT and the market mainstream OSes. And be patient, all this will come incl
[13:29] <tgBot> in the UT OS convergence concept. 😉
 Right.  I hate creating new groups though.  we don't want more than we actually need ha
 @milkor73, good point. i in deed am focused on users who will want to do what i do. And i admit that i am not focused on regular smartphone users who will just want to ise UT as a smartphone imstead of android/ios. Because i dont believe that ut can match android/ios in that aspect. because of my skepticism i focus on exploring ut value that appeals to other group of users. but at the end of the day, i think, it is all good. because there is a
[13:33] <tgBot> solid team supporting regular users already so I am effectively addressing something in a complementary fashion.
 you are yes
 and the excitment around it is motivating
 tahnk you, i appreciate it
 but I'm speaking to the manager in you (we have one).  how can we motivate, mobilize, and organize the troops?
 obviously we need to have a big picture discussion ... i have a weird part of my brain that loves systems and organizing. i try to run from it but it won't run from me.  here I see something complimentary and I also see a lot of people who could possibly help.. but the problem is 'what are we helping' and 'where are we going'?
 @KrisJacewicz, Thanks for your feedback and happy that you are in deeper contact with core team already.
 oh
 that's good
 anyway, i feel like... we need some big in-your-face forum meeting
 kind of like Q&A on steroids
 *hides*
 @TomasOqvist, Do you know Keepweb? It's in the openstore.
 no. here is what I know —--»»     __ ««------------
 (sounds exciting to search)(we're going to start reviewing apps soon... i think we have one already reviewed. ha
 @milkor73, well, only what u see happens here in this chat
 @wayneoutthere, I don't know how ubports is handling building the image tarballs now, but previously the images would only have translations included which had i think >60% (or maybe it was even higher) completion rate
 @LarreaMikel, Yes, I have it installed. But it is a bit of a hassle, because I have to copy my password file from dropbox all the time, or I am out of sync with my most recent passwords. It would be easier if possible to MTP into the OPO, but there's some bug preventing that.
 @KrisJacewicz, Folder support in the app draw would be awesome.
 But it's have to be designed right which is something I think would be difficult to do.
 Personally if I install desktop on my apps, for convergence reasons, I don't want to see them when I'm on phone.
 I liked the separation which the libertine scope added, but it isn't great. … Also the idea if going to the openstore, downloading like Firefox thinking it's the mobile version, then having the desktop version, would be pretty upsetting. … And then having 2 Firefox's next to each other one being desktop, other being phone, would also be a bad time.
 @PhoenixLandPirate, i get this, to each its own, no doubt about that
 also valuable feedback fpr me to allow some customization per user's prefference
 @TomasOqvist, but you will have that same problem with keepassxc, don't you?
 also the desktop on ut via my scopes replaceme t would not matter in converged desktop
 hou would still see regular converged desktop
 or no desktip at all in ssh scenario
 I never use the desktop anyways, but it should be available for convergence mode for those who do use the desktop
 @PhoenixLandPirate, i agree
 the way i think i will adress that is so that u can choose if you want a particular location to be shown on your phone (could be Desktop or anything else) or just apps
 i think that will be flexible enough
 (Photo, 720x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/q71BYyQY/file_2485.jpg
 How to fix it
 ctrl+c
 2nd from the left
 or 'n'
 @LarreaMikel, Not if I run keepass through x-forwarding, then I will always work with the same database.
 ahh, ok. understood.
 @TomasOqvist, use rsync if u hv a server OR script rsync to work on your LAN
 @TomasOqvist, precisely that is one of killer aspects of x forwarding!
 that's one of biggies i was trying to bring to everyone's attention!
 your apps, data, configs, all travels with you. in your pocket.
 +1
 @Vijaypraj, Don't use apt on the phone, unless it's in a chroot.
 So what should i have to do
 @dohbee, dont limit ppl. he is free to use apt it is his phone, his choice.
 Yes, one is free to break their own things.
 I want to install libretine
 @dohbee, yes. also u dont k ow if they will or will not break things. tell ppl that they should understand what they are doing but if they do, let them. … vijay might not be very familiar with apt, i deduce, so i would generally not suggest him to use it, but it should be because of his lack of understanding of apt not as an umbrekable rule.
 so vijay learn more about apt before using it
 I am familiar with apt
 your sources dont fownload maybe network problem maybe your / is not writable
 I am new to in ut but not new in Linux
 I tried to unlock
 Dpkg directory
 @Vijaypraj, well thwn i think usong apt is fine for u
 But still not working
 and u can disregard the comment about chroot
 I have no more experience in ut
 isnyour image writable?
 I am using stable version
 And i also try with sudo
 But not working
 ok can ypu mkdir /blablah ?
 with sudo?
 if u cant means u are readonly
 Yes
 I make mkdir
 ok so can u verify u have no internet problem?
 u using telegram on the phone?
 Yes I will check
 @Vijaypraj, libertine is installed by default
 @dohbee, is it? why on earth would it be default is beyond me...
 Not a problem with internet
 @Vijaypraj, no dependency problems?
 No
 @KrisJacewicz, i do know if they will break things. the root partition is read-only for a reason. changing it to rw and using apt to update/install things is a generally bad idea, and a quick way to fill the partition to 100%
 so only problem with fetching repos yes?
 Yes
 @KrisJacewicz, it was in april. i don't think ubports changed anything. it would be installed by default so people can create containers and use legacy apps
 what wasn't installed by default was the legacy apps scope, which was in the app store as a click instead
 @dohbee, should bebup to user not to you, but explaining rationale is good. explain but dont forbid.  … also since the system is designed to work in read only it doesnt matter if root is 100% full anyways ;)
 don't tell me what to do
 @Vijaypraj, maybe change to main server? are you using a local server?
 well fill your root partition to 100% and let me know how well your phone boots then
 in software sources?
 vivid is dead
 it is no more
 it is an ex-distro
 So how to change
 In ut
 It looks like the repository is still up, though. We're probably the only ones using it
 @Vijaypraj, maybe just change sources?
 I will try
 But that's why we're trying to get to 16.04 as quickly as possible rather than beating on 15.04
 i cant help u now but someone here can tell ypu what they hv in thwir /etc/apt/sources*
 including the commented ones
 Ok
 u can tey to ise that and retry
 @Vijaypraj, also for the limited space alternative to chrooting is moving some data (for example from under usr share) into userspace and symlinking it back to otiginal location
 u can keep ypu disk usage low that way
 i run my gui apps like that, cuz i dont want the overhead pf libertine
 why do you have deb-src enabled? and why is it trying to download the uncompressed versions of the files?
 @dohbee, that is a good remark right there
 but really you don't need to use apt to use libertine
 or a regular chroot if what you want is CLI tools
 @dohbee, that is another great point, despite i argued with u earlier i totally agree that simple clean chroot is agreat tool, and no overhead related to libertine
 libertine is literally just a plain chroot with a few default packages and X installed
 however i suspect you would agree that sometimes chroot is just not an option, ie if you want to install wireshark
 because sometimes u want direct access to real resources and not be in a chroot jail
 and libertine handles managing bind mounts for you
 @dohbee, i thought lxc, but also libertine is full vivid, whereas u can run chroot on a MUCH more compact chroot image
 libertine has nothing to do with vivid
 But lxc should run on the device already because of the Android container, so you could Setup a second lxc with debian Sid  maybe ...
 Has anybody tried that already?
 it is lxc, but lxc is also just a specially managed chroot
 @dohbee, into chroot in libertine downloads vivid afaik
 if it is not, then it was last time i used it
 you can create 16.04 or 17.10 or whatever version you want, in a libertine container
 i am veru sure of what i am saying because i used debootstrap container manually after that to have xenial chroot fpr a project
 and libertine had vivid to match host image
 @dohbee, which arw all large sistros that is my meaning all the time
 chroot can go much lighter than amy of ubuntus
 tjat is the overhead i meant
 it grabs basic pre-installed image
 and vijay i saw your screen amd u arw on read only fs, your error messages are saying this to you explicitely
 but there's nothing stopping you from apt-get removing extra stuff inside the container if you want
 u nedd to read the errors
[15:58] <tgBot> Rocco 3 was added by: Rocco 3
 generally most people want to have translations and working systems too
 and brush up on some info, but this group will help u fond answers
 telling people to do things the exceptionally hard way because of your personal ideals of what "overhead" is, is not helpful
 Guys
 alright gius time to sleep take care and later
 Let's get Ubuntu Touch 16.04 first and worry about what we can do on top of it after that
 @dohbee, sorry but that not what i am doing. i dont encourage ppl using apt on ut. i dont tell them they cant either. especially if they want to and ask how. sth for u to think about. anyways, rwally uv to sleep now.
 @UniversalSuperBox, +1
 i didn't say anyone can't. i said they shouldn't
 @UniversalSuperBox, Irony : On 15.04 Nexus 5 was really getting in good shape.
 The goal of 16.04 is to change the base operating system only. Its behavior should stay the same.
 We can change the behavior after we're on a supported base.
 @UniversalSuperBox, +1
 @UniversalSuperBox, +1
 woo! i just got mir 0.28 to run on nexus 5 :D
 fantastic!
 here is the android part of https://github.com/ubports/mir-android-platform
 moved it to github so it's easier to contribute and read
 I should be on vacations by next week
 Going to double down on the apps I've promised for the platform :)
 @mariogrip, That's very interesting! Tell us more.
 @samzn, YAY :D
 The Nexus 5 didn't explode, so I guess that's step 1
 @alan_griffiths, I just have the demos working no qtmir/unity8 or anything like that
 https://boards.4chan.org/g/thread/63598651/is-there-any-reason-to-still-use-android-phones found this on /g/
 @alan_griffiths, will try some different things, but the demos seems to `just` work
 @samzn, Wow...
 @UniversalSuperBox, it's not made by samsung :P
 @mariogrip, Sure, but you've got the first out-of-tree "graphics platform" working. That's a big step.
 @UniversalSuperBox, That's a lot of testosterone in one thread
 @alan_griffiths, Have to thank @anpok for that, i just made it compile with 0.28 :)
 .28 is the build with wayland support, correct?
 @samzn, Jep, basic wayland support
 Fantastic work Marius
 @UniversalSuperBox, As it should be. The patten language is "Stable Intermediate Forms - A Foundation Pattern for Derisking the Process of Change" https://accu.org/index.php/journals/261
 Good work Marius! 🤘
 Congratulations! we have a new language group.  Be sure to find out what that is by subscribing to the UBports News Channel here:  https://t.me/ubports_news
 @UniversalSuperBox, It's 4chan.  That place is more cancerous than most boards.
 except for some cucks
 There's plenty of interesting discussions once in a while
[16:21] <tgBot> gonfebo was added by: gonfebo
 Hello @gonfebo and welcome! I'm part of the UBports welcoming team. … To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
 From time to time.   I might have to boldly believe you are incorrect.
 there is always time for an exception.
 @alan_griffiths, That was a really interesting read!  I find that a bit confusing
 @peternerlich, iirc they need a regular expression describing all urls that are supposed to be opened in the app, everything else will be opened in the browser
 if in doubt just use `*.url.com/*` i guess
 @neothethird, ah ok, but the url space I already entered above is included?
 ok, maybe i'm wrong
 been a while since i messed with the webapp creator
 (it says `Add any URL under the main URL that should be opened in the app` — `Access to SubURL 1` ...)
 ok, maybe they want to have seperate patterns for the subdomain, domain and path
 @cibersheep care to elaborate? ^
 @Radu, which vision exactly? there are so many to choose from.
 btw, is `htop` available as a click package?
 @peternerlich, No but if you push me nicely I could add it to the rootfs ;)
 I would like to build a Ubuntu Touch click package of  https://github.com/kaidanim/kaidan. Currently Kaidan depends on Qt 5.9 and Kirigami 2. Do you think it will work on the new xenial release if we put Kirigami inside the click package?
 Currently I'm still waiting for lxd being packaged for debian so I can use clickable properly
 i guess if 5.9 is there, it will sort of work, but not be very friendly
 @Flohack, I'm not sure that is the right way to do it, since there is literally no normal user that would ever use it. But it would have been nice could it be added with more ease for those who do use it
 it says only 5.7 is required in the readme
 yeah, CMakeLists.txt also only depends on 5.7.0
 @peternerlich, I am missing htop every time ^^
 true
 If only overlay-style filesystems were included and stable in Android kerneld
 @balcy, ... I have found a way to build it and get it running, will write about this in the forum some time later
 https://github.com/ubports/ubuntu-touch-meta/commit/ff9ec414ae5e62a6c71db3c90ac1ce72755a82ff @KrisJacewicz @peternerlich
[18:36] <tgBot> GiovanniStaiano was added by: GiovanniStaiano
 hm repowerd complains about a missing library and dbus service files.. Loading module: 'libubuntu_application_api_touch_mirclient.so.3.0.0' … Error org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name com.canonical.powerd was not provided by any .service files … Error org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name com.canonical.powerd was not provided by any .service files … library "libubuntu_application_api.so" not found
 Hello @GiovanniStaiano and welcome! I'm part of the UBports welcoming team. … To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
 Hello - Ciao :)
 If you have any "beginner" questions or need guidance, feel free to ask over in the welcome room (invite at request). … Also, you might be repelled by the amount of messages going through our groups at times, but still interested to stay updated about our project. In this case, lucky you, there's a brand new News Channel! @ubports_news
 @GiovanniStaiano, If you have any "beginner" questions or need guidance, feel free to ask over in the welcome room (invite at request). … Also, you might be repelled by the amount of messages going through our groups at times, but still interested to stay updated about our project. In this case, lucky you, there's a brand new News Channel! @ubports_news
 👍
 Hello, Does the GPS work well (Especially with the Nexus 5)? I have to turn on the smartphone several times until you start the GPS.
 For me even in Northern Germany it works fine.
 @anpok, The problem is the missing library then. The complaint about the service files is from dbus as it failed to start repowerd, which provides that bus name.
 @GiovanniStaiano, It worked OK for me when I last used it, and after letting the signal get linked up while outside. If I tried straight from indoors, it wouldn't find the satellites
 @nfsprodriver @nfsprodriver Does it quickly find the signal?
 ok
 @dohbee Does it quickly find the signal?
 @Flohack, poppler-data plz 😁
 @GiovanniStaiano, It was satellite only, no AGPS, so it wasn't exactly quick, but it wasn't too slow either. It did take a few seconds.
 https://github.com/ubports/ubuntu-touch-meta/commit/a897bfd36b628df02533a22af8e146ee8c6e5442 @KrisJacewicz
 probably about the same as when using satellite only in Android
 OK
 @neothethird, M? Reading...
 @peternerlich, This is because with some websites / services if the main URL is: `whoeva,com` sometimes `www.whoeva,com` doesn't work. Or `app.whoeva,com` … So, you have the fields in case you need them. … Also, say you are interested in open some other URL in the app: `whoeva,com` needs acces to `imthere,fr`, then you might use the additional URL for that purpose
 @cibersheep, aah ok
 @peternerlich, Does that make sense?
 Question: is Halogen to a point where I can test Ubuntu Touch on it?
 (not afraid of building it, I'm just not fluent enough with programming to be able to attempt major changes to the tree)
 halogen?
 @dohbee, I guess is Hallium, right?
 @c_smith, You have a dedicated Telegram group if you want to check
 i was guessing that, but maybe one meant a specific device port
 @dohbee, Oh, right
 hi, no more notifications from Jenkins builds ?
 (sorry if i'm out off topic)
 @DanChapman I have one question about dekko 2
 I've set up a imap account, but it doesn't show me the mails in onbox
 Inbox*
 I can send them, but I cannot read them. Is it a known issue?
 Thanks
[20:53] <tgBot> <Dio Cristo> Yessah
[20:53] <tgBot> <Dio Cristo> Vicinoo
 @cibersheep, Already there, rarely do I get anything like a reply there, guess I'll try again there
 @c_smith, Oh. Anyway, think that Halium might be in early stage
 @Dio Cristo, are you italian? wanna join @ubportsitaliano?
 @c_smith, Or might want to take a look at the forum? … https://forums.ubports.com/topic/431/porting-halium-to-nexus-7-deb
 Sorry if I'm not being too helpful :(
[21:06] <tgBot> <Dio Cristo> @Michele, Ammazzati
 vijay prajapati: … sudo ubuntu-device-flash --server=http://system-image.ubports.com touch --device=hammerhead \ --channel=15.04/stable --bootstrap
 Change device name
 It is easy to install
 I need redshift on UT so much
 @malditobastardo, me too~~~
 https://github.com/ubports/ubuntu-touch/issues/348
 Amazing move! Kris will be happy after this 😹
 @peternerlich, https://community.ubuntu.com/t/mirs-next-steps-we-need-your-input/2140/34
 Read the last answer 😺
 well, last 2 answers from the devs
 @malditobastardo, I'm also an advocate for making more apps SuruDark theme compatible, but there is way more important stuff atm
 @malditobastardo, 😀
 hey as many of you know in the states, today is GIVING TUESDAY!
 how about we give ubports a special holiday cheer with a $16.04 donation :D
 just a thought :D
 si puedes, if you can.
 I'll have to find something to give to!
 @UniversalSuperBox, halium lol
 I don't think they'll take my money
 plasma mobile ;P
 Yeah, they'd take my money
 Give time to Halium and you help all three!
 yaaaay
 there is prism....lol but hopefully those who are not on patreon can give a one time donation, that would be cool too...and those projects we mentioned - its all love in these parts....most of the time at least lol


[08:49] <brlin> The snaps in --jailmode are using the user's real home directory, is that expected behavior?
[09:03] <zyga> brlin: no, it is not
[09:03] <zyga> brlin: can you please report a bug
[09:03] <zyga> brlin: on launchpad.net/snapd/
[17:08] <zyga> reported as https://bugs.launchpad.net/snapd/+bug/1807512
[17:08] <mup> Bug #1807512: Classic snaps used in --jailmode still use real home directory <snapd:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1807512>


[20:12] <xander787> just recently upgraded from 9.04 to 9.10 (server but with gnome running) and now i get this error when i try to boot: mountall: symbol lookup error: mountall: undefined symbol: udev_monitor_filter_add_match_subsystem_devtype
[20:13] <xander787> i've seen this around on the forums with other ppl getting the problem so i thought maybe there would be a solution to this other than having to clean install, cuz that would be a real pain for me
[20:24] <xander787> can no one help me?
[20:24] <xander787> ah theres no one here
[20:24] <xander787> wow...


[03:37] <baojg> how to debug gnome? i met the gsettings-data-convert crash
[07:34] <Pishuilu> @cyphermox Hi,cyphermox. I have a question about ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu package. Update translations from Launchpad for ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu package. But Ubuntu Kylin slideshow translations was modified to the previous version. I want to ask this is my way of change is wrong, or other problems?
[07:34] <udevbot> Error: "cyphermox" is not a valid command.
[07:37] <Pishuilu> cyphermox, I have a question about ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu package. Update translations from Launchpad for ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu package. But Ubuntu Kylin slideshow translations was modified to the previous version. I want to ask this is my way of change is wrong, or other problems?


[11:30] <MaWaLe> hi folks
[11:30] <MaWaLe> i'm a newbie irc
[11:31] <MaWaLe> and i'm an op of a chan
[11:31] <MaWaLe> how can i acquire op mode on my chan?
[11:31] <MaWaLe> i mean the command
[11:41] <Mamarok> MaWaLe: try this command: /msg/ChanServ op #channelname MaWaLe
[11:41] <Mamarok> then use deop once you are done
[11:41] <MaWaLe> i've got it :)
[11:41] <MaWaLe> thx anyway
[11:41] <Mamarok> MaWaLe: also I strongly suggest you read the IRC HowTos on Freenode
[11:42] <MaWaLe> there isn't a complete doc for using IRC and specially for ops
[11:43] <jussi> MaWaLe: I do suggest you read this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcTeam/OperatorGuidelines
[11:44] <MaWaLe> thx jussi
[11:44] <MaWaLe> i'm on it


[15:40] <netritious> good morning
[15:40] <elacheche> Good after noon from Tunisia :)
[15:40] <elacheche> afternoon*
[15:42] <netritious> good afternoon elacheche :)
[15:42] <elacheche> :D
[15:42] <netritious> I've stopped by #ubuntu-tn once or twice. ;)
[15:43] <elacheche> :D


[01:32] -ubottu:#ubuntu-news- ::planet:: Ubuntu Blog: PostgreSQL for AI applications @ https://ubuntu.com//blog/postgresql-ai-application
[01:32] -ubottu:#ubuntu-news- ::planet:: Ubuntu Blog: Create an Ubuntu Core image with Landscape Client included @ https://ubuntu.com//blog/create-an-ubuntu-core-image-with-landscape-client-included
[02:05] -ubottu:#ubuntu-news- ::omg!ubuntu:: Linux Mint is Building a New Desktop Chat App @ https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2024/03/linux-mint-new-jargonaut-irc-chat-app


[22:46] <BobJonkman> Hi Ubuntu-ca: Here's an announcement of upcoming Ubuntu Release Parties: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2273273
[23:17] <genii> BobJonkman: If you have an email for Blaise Alleyne I'll send them a personal invite for a co-event here
[23:18] <genii> ( or if that is from a LibrePlanet mailinglist thread I could do it there if that's better )
[23:52] <BobJonkman> The LibrePlanet Ontario mailing list is at http://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-ca-on
[23:52] <BobJonkman> The main LibrePlanet Ontario web site is http://libreplanet.org/wiki/Group:LibrePlanet_Ontario
[23:55]  * genii makes some notes


[12:21] <xnox> cjwatson: ev: are we keeping wubi.exe auto-launcher on the desktop cd?
[12:22] <cjwatson> We need something to show helpful things when you insert the image on a Windows system
[12:22] <cjwatson> It would be nice if it didn't offer actual Wubi installation, but that's not its only function ...
[12:25]  * xnox thought it did stop offering actual wubi install a while ago.... but then again i don't have a windows vm to check =) I could try wine...
[12:26]  * ogra_ thought so too ...
[12:27] <xnox> hmm... launching with wine it offers to install something, not sure if that is wubi or not.
[17:14] <bdmurray> xnox: bug 1169611 might be worth a look
[17:14] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1169611 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "13.04 installation has damaged my luks partition" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1169611


[00:00] <bdmurray> Okay, we've recently hired a couple of people so it'll be a bit for us to solidify roles and responsibilities and see how we are doing.
[00:01] <sectech> bdmurray,  I'll be around for a while... I usually stick with something if I like it...
[00:08] <nhandler> Does anyone know why the 5-a-day stats page is not giving me credit for one of the bugs that I fixed. If you look here: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~5-a-day/5-a-day-data/main/revision/4412, you will see that I have fixed 15 bugs. However, the stats page is only listed 14. It was just updated, so it should list all 15, shouldn't it?
[00:32] <hggdh> nick hggdh|away
[00:32] <hggdh> duh
[00:35] <sectech> nhandler, I just added myself to the 5 a day team... where is the stat page?
[00:35] <nhandler> sectech: The stats page is here: http://daniel.holba.ch/5-a-day-stats/
[00:37] <sectech> nhandler,  do they have stats for the specific members? like how would I get my stats?
[00:37] <asac> hggdh|away: whats up?
[00:37] <nhandler> sectech: Start by reading the wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/5-A-Day. That will explain how to set up 5-a-day to submit your data.
[00:38] <sectech> asac, He was curious if you meant to wishlist bug #209258
[00:39] <asac> sectech: i didnt ment anything. just moved it to firefox 3 for now
[00:39] <asac> :)
[00:39] <sectech> ahh that's what I thought.
[00:39] <asac> but well its a wishlist bug, yes.
[00:39] <asac> if there is no bug in bugzilla.mozilla.org, look in forums.mozillazine.org
[00:39] <sectech> K... that's what we were wondering early in the day
[00:39] <asac> most likely it was discussed before
[00:40] <asac> if not, open a wihslist bug agains the right component upstream and drop that bug id in the bug
[00:40] <sectech> Okay
[00:40] <asac> but only do that if you support that wishlist bug ;)
[00:41] <asac> i refuse wishlist bugs tha ti dont support. tell the reporter that wishlist bugs should be dealt with in forums.mozillazine.org
[00:41] <asac> :)
[00:42] <sectech> I know that the issue is annoying... BUT.... I don't know if I would put myself behind it... It is a working feature and I don't have any new suggestions.
[00:46] <asac> sectech: yeah. thats basically always the case. best thing you can do is keeping bug open, pushing reporter to go forums and if people cheer there, open an enhancement bug and drop the bug id
[01:12] <hggdh|away> asac hello, it was about this bug indeed
[01:14] <hggdh|away> bdmurray, ping
[01:14] <Nattgew> what exactly do you have to do with a bug for it to be one of your 5-a-day?
[01:15] <bdmurray> hggdh|away: pong
[01:15] <hggdh|away> bdmurray, asac just said something that makes sense -- if a bug is a wishlist, open upstream. Should we put it on the checklist for all?
[01:16] <persia> Nattgew: Take care of it sufficiently that it there's nothing else pending just now (for something that needs work).
[01:16] <persia> This might mean fixing it.  It might mean good triage.  It might mean passing upstream cleanly.  It might mean rejecting it.  There's lots of things that bugs need done to them.
[01:17] <Nattgew> is just a confirm sufficient?
[01:17] <hggdh|away> Nattgew: if there is enough data to confirm, yes
[01:17] <Nattgew> ok, thanks
[01:17] <persia> Nattgew: That's typically light: better if you can get it fully triaged: to the point where it's not only confirmed, but understood.
[01:18] <asac> hggdh|away: no i said: if its wishlist and you fully support it, make it your own bug and forward upstream
[01:18] <asac> otherwise tell user how he can do it on his own if he really cares enough
[01:18] <asac> and keep our bug open
[01:18] <asac> ask the user to drop the upstream bug id in case he filed one
[01:18] <asac> thats it ;)
[01:18] <persia> Anything going upstream needs someone to chase it, and if it's a new feature, likely needs someone to help rough out the feature spec and work with upstream to get it right.
[01:19] <hggdh|away> asac, thanks. bdmurray, what about adding it in?
[01:19] <hggdh|away> persia: I thought we would take care of it...
[01:19] <asac> maybe we should point people that just have "ideas" to brainstorm
[01:20] <asac> and close the wishlist bug ;)
[01:21] <hggdh|away> this is not a bad idea at all...
[01:21] <persia> hggdh|away: Sometimes we can.  Sometimes it's hard.  Imagine a user who opens a bug: gdm should let me log in by saying "Hello".
[01:22] <hggdh|away> OK, no need to go that far :-)
[01:22] <persia> Wouldn't this user, who might have a significant test case where this is required, be more qualified to work with upstream to get it right?
[01:22] <persia> (it's not that far: there are some voice-authentication systems out there, just not working properly in Ubuntu yet)
[01:23] <pwnguin> "My voice is my passport; verify me"
[01:23] <hggdh|away> yes, I get the picture. What I am trying to find out is how to describe the process to beginning triagers
[01:23] <persia> asac: That's a really good idea.
[01:23] <persia> Can brainstorm link to upstream enhancement requests?
[01:24] <asac> hard to say.
[01:24] <asac> i am not using it ;)
[01:24] <hggdh|away> but we can add a manual link
[01:24] <hggdh|away> worst scenario
[01:24] <asac> at least it should have a feature to make an ubuntu bug out of it once someone decides to seriously work on it
[01:24] <persia> Maybe someone who uses brainstorm could open an idea that brainstorm should support links to upstream enhancement requests :)
[01:25] <hggdh|away> or a bug
[01:25] <persia> asac: bug or blueprint?
[01:25] <hggdh|away> maybe we should open a bug for brainstorm to support a bug
[01:26] <Nattgew> if a bug filed on a previous kernel is fixed in the current version, can it closed?
[01:26] <persia> Let's just go for an ability to add links to external trackers.  That supports enhancement requests, specs, bugs, etc.
[01:26] <asac> persia: i think bugs (ubuntu/upstream) should not be opened before someone works on it. specifications could be linked before, true.
[01:27] <asac> but well. there might be uses for linking to bugs for sure
[01:27] <persia> asac: For Ubuntu, I agree.  For upstream, I think it depends on upstream.  I know several upstreams who use trac and collect enhancement requests on lists to then target for each development cycle.  These are somewhere between LP bugs and LP blueprints.
[01:42] <Nattgew> since bcm43xx is being replaced by b43, can bugs filed because of it be invalidated?
[01:45] <persia> Nattgew: For a few previous migrations like that, we tested the old bugs against the new system, and reported most of them solved by the migration.
[01:45] <persia> Those that applied to both, we re-triaged for the new system.
[01:45] <persia> It's a little more work, but it ensures that we get the best quality we can.
[01:46] <Nattgew> so the same goes for new kernel versions?
[01:49] <persia> Nattgew: Kernels are a little special, but I think the transition to the "linux" source package was intended to allow for a similar sort of thing (previously there was a separate source package name for each kernel version)
[01:52] <Nattgew> if a bug in an old version of a kernel or deprecated program/whatever is fixed in whatever supercedes it, is the bug fix released or invalid?
[01:52] <persia> Depends on the nature of the bug and the transition.  Sometimes it's Won't Fix.
[01:53] <persia> The general guideline is to provide a meaningful status to the reporter (and other subscribers)
[01:53] <persia> From what I've seen, Fix Released is most common, often with comments explaining the transition (if it isn't automated)
[01:56] <yuriy> what to do if a developer can't see apport bugs because they are private?
[02:00] <crimsun> bdmurray: would it be feasible to add me to ~ubuntu-bugcontrol?
[02:04] <persia> yuriy: Someone who can see them should review the content to make sure there is no private information.  Once done, if there's nothing private, it can be made public.
[02:05] <persia> Dangerous things would be undigested core dumps, private data (credit card numbers, etc.) in stack traces, tec.
[02:05] <yuriy> persia: OK, I think that is the case here
[02:05] <yuriy> persia: but if there was something private, would it be OK to subscribe/assign the developer of the application anyway if they aren't already?
[02:06] <persia> yuriy: If you know they can be trusted with that information.
[02:06] <yuriy> that is the case meaning these can be public. it's python stuff with no core dumps
[02:08] <persia> crimsun: There's been a recent change.  See http://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-bugcontrol/msg00025.html
[02:08] <persia> yuriy: Even python traces sometimes expose private informtion, but it's easier to tell :)
[02:09] <yuriy> would be quite interesting if you had to enter your credit card number to configure compiz :D
[02:09] <bdmurray> persia: the change hasn't been implemented yet
[02:10] <persia> bdmurray: Ah.  My misunderstanding.  Thanks for the clarification.
[02:10] <bdmurray> hopefully the discussion will go quick though. ;)
[02:10] <bdmurray> crimsun: sure, I can do that
[02:11] <bdmurray> crimsun: you're all set
[02:16] <mrooney> What is the criteria for fixing a bug in a package in Hardy? The bug must have certain attributes?
[02:19] <persia> mrooney: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
[02:20] <mrooney> persia: thanks :)
[02:24] <mrooney> any idea if bug #237473 might be a candidate (ignore that it isn't filed against Ubuntu yet :)? it restores functionality via a trivial patch attached
[02:30] <persia> mrooney: It looks safe enough to me, but I can't speak to how critical it is.  You might ask if someone from MOTU SRU is available in #ubuntu-motu: these are the people who are authoritative about whether something can get in.
[02:32] <mrooney> yeah, I was wondering if the importance becomes less necessary as the trivialness of the patches increases
[02:32] <soonick_cancun> bdmurray: Hello bdmurray, are you busy?
[03:59] <Hobbsee> hggdh: pong
[03:59] <hggdh> ping Hobbsee
[04:00] <hggdh> Hobbsee: now I do not remember what it was anymore (your day is starting, mine is ending)
[04:00] <hggdh> :-(
[04:00] <hggdh> awfully sorry, Hobbsee
[04:01] <Hobbsee> hggdh: oh dear.
[04:01] <Hobbsee> it's 1pm here.  i guess that counts as starting :)
[04:02] <hggdh> ah, yes, I guess so. It's two pure malts too late, I would say ;-)
[04:03] <crimsun> persia: / bdmurray: thanks.
[04:13] <techno_freak> nice clip to confirm bug #235804, now someone needs to set the importance so it gets noticed
[04:18] <hggdh> techno_freak: can you also reproduce it?
[04:19] <hggdh> techno_freak: and -- what package does this apply?
[04:19] <techno_freak> hggdh, not me
[04:19] <hggdh> ubuntu, is *not* a valid package
[04:20]  * techno_freak looks into it
[04:21] <hggdh> techno_freak: apt-cache search trashapplet
[04:22] <techno_freak> ok
[04:22] <hggdh> it helps ;-)
[04:24] <techno_freak> gnome-applets :)
[04:24] <hggdh> techno_freak: yes
[04:25] <hggdh> but I would like to confirm the version of gnome-applets and gnome-panel before fully confirming it
[04:25] <techno_freak> ok, i will move it back to incomplete and ask for those information
[04:26] <hggdh> you could ask the reporters to run 'dpkg -l gnome-applets gnome-panel'
[04:26] <hggdh> techno_freak: otherwise, good work
[04:26] <hggdh> thanks
[04:26] <techno_freak> thanks hggdh
[04:28] <hggdh> finally, techno_freak -- it does sound like either gnome-applets or gnome-panel (or, perhaps something else ;-)), so I guess we could set it as gnome-applets since trashapplet belongs there
[04:28] <techno_freak> okay :)
[04:28] <hggdh> and, again, thank you for helping
[04:58] <techno_freak> bug #237809 seems to be a wishlist
[05:07] <pwnguin> that screenshot confuses me
[05:09] <RAOF> That screenshot looks crazy.
[05:14] <pwnguin> plus, my rhythmbox UI is like, three buttons on a gnome-panel applet: previous, pause/play and next
[05:15] <pwnguin> if rhythmbox ever implmements selectable default playlists, I'll never care what the ui look like again
[05:19] <darthanubis> Bug #235759
[06:35] <mrooney> pwnguin: what is a selectable default playlist?
[08:25] <pwnguin> mrooney: id like to be able to set which playlist comes up when rhythmbox starts up,
[15:25] <afflux> morning
[15:39] <bddebian> Boo
[15:40] <ogra> bee
[15:47] <sectech> I believe bug #234175 needs to be wishlisted, since it really isn't a bug and more of a request
[15:51] <james_w> sectech: hi, I'm not really sure what they are asking for?
[15:51] <james_w> they'd like some emoticons to be used there, but not others?
[15:52] <james_w> it's probably wishlist, yes, but I'd want some more details from the user first.
[15:52] <sectech> james_w,  The reporter was stating that _some_ emoticons can cause problems in the nickname line...  The problem is, how do you distingish
[15:52] <sectech> I understand what he means... would you like me to add a note clarifying?
[15:53] <james_w> that would help
[15:53] <sectech> Okay..
[15:56] <sectech> There, see if that helps
[16:01] <james_w> So you think they want a way to mark a custom emoticon such that it won't be shown in a user's name?
[16:02] <sectech> Exactly.... The problem is, it all depends on what emoticons the user has in his/her custom library... There might be one that causes no problem at all... It's very user specific
[16:02] <james_w> could you update the title of the report then please?
[16:02] <james_w> I'll mark it wishlist
[16:03] <james_w> another possibility would be to not substitute if the matching string is part of a word.
[16:03] <james_w> and take it out of incomplete as well please.
[16:04] <sectech> It was marked as new, I brought it to incomplete to ask in here... I know a lot of triagers don't like wishlisting bugs marked as new
[16:04] <sectech> I just confirmed it
[16:04] <james_w> thanks
[16:04] <sectech> The reporter had returned it to new after he replied a while back(pet peeve)
[16:05] <sectech> james_w, Thank you for your help :)
[16:05] <james_w> no problem, thanks for working on it.
[16:05] <sectech> james_w,  hey btw... I applied yesterday ;)
[16:06] <sectech> I know I said I wasn't going to for a while, but I believe I have the hang of it
[16:09] <james_w> we're just discussing changing the approval process a little, so I may get a chance to check over your application.
[16:09] <james_w> good luck :-)
[16:09] <sectech> thanks :)
[16:09] <sectech> bdmurray,  you around? (unrelated)
[16:16] <bdmurray> sectech: yep
[16:16] <sectech> Bug #228361 you changed from confirmed back to new... That was the one you helped me send upstream...
[16:17] <sectech> I'm just wondering why it would be "new" instead of confirmed...
[16:35] <elliotjhug> hi all, I've been doing bug triaging occasionally for a while. But one of the main prerequisite for going for ubuntu-bugcontrol is having a list of 5 'best' triaged bugs. Is there a definition for what a well triaged bug is or is it just a matter of following the guidelines for each bug and making up a list?
[16:38] <mrooney> elliotjhug: I don't think there is a specific guideline, but we like to see that you have followed the ubuntu code of conduct, been helpful/courteous to users and devs
[16:39] <mrooney> if you have edited the title/description to make it more useful, set the status to something useful, followed up/forwarded upstream if necessary
[16:40] <bdmurray> sectech: Looking at the timing of the change I may not have reloaded the bug's page after you changed the status
[16:40] <elliotjhug> mrooney: Great, thanks a lot
[16:41] <bdmurray> So I would have still had the New status.  Regardless it was unintentional.
[16:41] <sectech> bdmurray,  ahh okay...  Good thing I looked through my bug list
[16:42] <mrooney> bdmurray: it is almost like we need an AJAX-y Launchpad to check for updates and inform the user
[16:42] <mrooney> usually I try to refresh right before editing and have been glad that I have a few times
[16:42] <sectech> I fixed the status
[16:43] <sectech> of the ubuntu part of the bug anyway
[16:43] <bdmurray> sectech: great
[16:43] <bdmurray> mrooney: I don't think it happens that often
[16:43] <mrooney> yeah, it could just be me
[16:44] <mrooney> I always open bugs to look at/triage later
[16:44] <bdmurray> There are enough bugs for everybody. ;)
[16:45] <sectech> Wishlist, new shouldn't be an appropriate combination right?
[16:45] <sectech> for anything.
[16:45] <sectech> because new implies the bug hasn't been touched
[16:46] <mrooney> sectech: well, technically I think it implies the status hasn't been touched, but maybe you are correct
[16:46] <bdmurray> Generally speaking yes but there are corner cases for everything.
[16:46] <sectech> bdmurray,  of course... special cases excluded...
[16:46] <mrooney> what about #237809, for example?
[16:46] <mrooney> bug 237809...that is
[16:46] <bdmurray> bug 237809
[16:46] <sectech> I just had to fix a couple general bugs in my list that were wishlisted..
[16:47] <mrooney> I was going to mark it Invalid but seb128 beat me to triaging
[16:47] <mrooney> and I figured he knows way more than I do so I shouldn't change it
[16:49] <bdmurray> There are different ways of looking at feature requests and those can be quite subjective.
[16:50] <bdmurray> However, I think it should be Confirmed so people looking for new bugs won't run into it.
[16:57] <mrooney> bdmurray: in regards to elliotjhug's question, is that on a wiki anywhere? Your email just yesterday I think pertains to it
[16:57] <mrooney> about what people looking at BugControl applications should look for, criteria, et cetera
[16:57] <mrooney> that would be a good resource for applicants as well I suspect
[16:58] <sectech> If I get approved for bugcontrol am I going to have to go through all my bugs and assign a priority?
[16:58] <mrooney> sectech: nope I don't think so
[16:58] <mrooney> just because you can set a priority doesn't mean you always understand what it should be for every bug :)
[16:58] <sectech> thank god... that would be like 99 bugs I would have to change.
[16:59] <bdmurray> You wouldn't "have to" but it would helpful if you knew them
[16:59] <sectech> mrooney,  I would use the wiki as my guideline of course.
[16:59] <mrooney> but at the same time if you have already worked with them and are pretty confident of importances for some of them
[17:00] <mrooney> sectech: I found when I got approved I didn't have many Importances to set because I had already asked others to do so for me, explaining the reasoning
[17:00] <bdmurray> and if they are incomplete you'll get back to them and can set it eventually
[17:00] <sectech> indeed...
[17:00] <mrooney> sectech: I don't know if you knew but if you just paste a bug number here you can request that someone set an Importance if you explain why and they agree, of course
[17:01] <sectech> mrooney,  If I did that for all the issues I triaged this channel would have a ton more chatter from me...
[17:01] <bdmurray> mrooney: since the criteria are still under discussion I think we should wait before writing it up
[17:01] <sectech> I tend to take on 15 to 20 a day
[17:02] <mrooney> sectech: nothing wrong with chatting in a chatroom
[17:03] <mrooney> but I see what you mean, it could just be for the ones you are the most confident about
[17:03] <sectech> mrooney,  True... but I have a hard enough time requesting a wishlist on a day when the regulars arn't here.
[17:03] <elliotjhug> in regards to mrooney's question regarding my question it would be great if someone did find that wiki page
[17:05] <mrooney> elliotjhug: I think the conclusion was there isn't one yet
[17:05] <mrooney> elliotjhug: bdmurray was drafting it in the BugControl mailing list just yesterday
[17:05] <elliotjhug> mrooney: ah - fair enough
[17:05] <mrooney> about what criteria BugControl members should look for when reviewing applications
[17:06] <mrooney> but I was saying that would be great for applicants as well, so I imagine it will eventually find a home on the wiki!
[17:18] <sectech> hmm...
[17:19] <sectech> I know my input isn't really counted but I agree with the automatic bounce part if they don't give a status in there examples.
[17:19] <sectech> Considering the whole point of applying is to see if you understand them
[17:35] <elliotjhug> weird
[18:14] <soonick_cancun> bdmurray: hello bdmurray. Are you busy?
[18:15] <bdmurray> soonick_cancun: kind of but I'm waiting on some queries to run at the moment
[18:16] <soonick_cancun> bdmurray: so, do you have time?
[18:16] <soonick_cancun> just a little. I have some doubts
[18:16] <bdmurray> sure
[18:16] <soonick_cancun> bdmurray: do you remember me?
[18:17] <soonick_cancun> You helped me to confirm an abiword bug
[18:17] <bdmurray> soonick_cancun: we talked about abiword and how to triage on Tuesday
[18:17] <soonick_cancun> bdmurray: we didnt triage, we just confirmed it
[18:17] <soonick_cancun> but you have good memory :)
[18:17] <bdmurray> confirming is part of the triage process
[18:18] <soonick_cancun> bdmurray: I made some discoverings but i dont know if they are relevant
[18:18] <bdmurray> what was the bug number again?
[18:19] <soonick_cancun> Bug #20063
[18:21] <soonick_cancun> bdmuray: what i saw is that when i open abiword on a terminal and click on "Report a bug" i get sh: Syntax error: "(" unexpected
[18:22] <bdmurray> soonick_cancun: that's great and seems quite helpful
[18:24] <soonick_cancun> bdmurray: but there is something else i downloadedthe source to try to fix it but whe i compiled it i didn't get the error
[18:26] <soonick_cancun> is that a packaging error?
[18:26] <bdmurray> soonick_cancun: which source did you download?
[18:26] <soonick_cancun> i used apt-get source abiword
[18:27] <bdmurray> and you used make instead of debuild?
[18:27] <soonick_cancun> yes, i used make
[18:28] <pwnguin> is "string-fix" for po files only or can it be xml?
[18:29] <bdmurray> the po files are translations so I wouldn't use string-fix there.  Do you have an example?
[18:29] <bdmurray> soonick_cancun: hmm, that is interesting
[18:30] <pwnguin> http://gitweb.compiz-fusion.org/?p=fusion/plugins/colorfilter;a=commit;h=759fec
[18:30] <soonick_cancun> bdmurray: yes i tought that too
[18:31] <soonick_cancun> bdmurray: should i comment it in the bug. Should i try to package it myself?
[18:31] <bdmurray> soonick_cancun: I'd comment on both in the bug
[18:32] <soonick_cancun> bdmurray: do you think it is a packaging bug?
[18:34] <bdmurray> soonick_cancun: I'm really not certain.  What architecture are you using?
[18:34] <bdmurray> pwnguin: what am I looking at exactly?
[18:35] <pwnguin> its a diff to an xml file that controls a ccsm module
[18:35] <pwnguin> click on diff ;)
[18:35] <pwnguin> not a po file
[18:35] <bdmurray> okay, I guess I'm not certain the right way to spell either of those words - is one of them wrong?
[18:36] <pwnguin> no no
[18:36] <pwnguin> i'd like that patch in ubuntu
[18:36] <soonick_cancun> bdmurray: an lg notebook with a celeron M i386
[18:37] <pwnguin> the explaination of the tag on wiki/bugs/tags says non code stuff; i was curious if XML counted as non-code
[18:38] <bdmurray> bug 209049 is a good example of what a string-fix bug is
[18:38] <pwnguin> so its fixing an existing string
[18:39] <bdmurray> Basically they are typos or grammatical errors
[18:39] <bdmurray> pwnguin: that's correct
[18:39] <pwnguin> not nessecarily a fix by adding strings
[18:39] <pwnguin> anyone opposed if i edit the wiki to reflect that?
[18:40] <bdmurray> not I, that'd be great
[18:40] <pwnguin> also, does anyone use a tag to reflect patch availability?
[18:41] <bdmurray> It is possible to flag attachments as patches so that might be redundant
[18:42] <pwnguin> well, it's a patch in git; not sure it really needs to be broken out into a patch
[18:42] <bdmurray> which launchpad bug are you looking at?
[18:43] <pwnguin> bug #237848
[18:44] <bdmurray> hrm, if there were an upstream bug watch and that upstream bug were fixed it would be possible to search for that
[18:44] <pwnguin> i pinged upstream last night and they got it fixed
[18:45] <pwnguin> search for what?
[18:45] <bdmurray> bugs resolved upstream
[18:45] <pwnguin> i see
[18:46] <pwnguin> it was faster to just ask on irc ;)
[18:46] <pwnguin> rather than register a new account, ask a developer to look at it, link it on LP and so on =(
[18:47] <pwnguin> anyways, mvo says the package will likely be pulled from upstream again this cycle
[18:47] <bdmurray> I see your point there just isn't a good way to represent that this bug has a fix and for people to find it
[18:49] <pwnguin> at which point, it'll be fixed without many knowing it was ever a bug
[18:49] <bdmurray> and possibly fixed w/o the bug being closed which would be unfortunate
[18:50] <pwnguin> i'll keep a watch on it :)
[18:55] <soonick_cancun> bdmurray: i have a lg notebook with a celeron M i386 is that relevant?
[18:56] <pwnguin> does LP not track independent gforce installs very well?
[18:57] <bdmurray> soonick_cancun: the fact that you are using the i386 package and I'm using amd64 might be
[18:59] <soonick_cancun> bdmurray: that is true. But i find weird that when i compile it with make i dont get the bug
[18:59] <bdmurray> ah, right
[18:59] <bdmurray> I'm really at a loss now
[18:59] <bdmurray> jcastro: ping
[19:01] <Nattgew> hi i followed up on #69925, a workaround has been found, so i think it can be marked as triaged, can somebody do that?
[19:01] <pwnguin> bug #69925
[19:02] <pwnguin> kernel bugs have a slightly different work flow
[19:02] <soonick_cancun> bdmurray: ok i have reported what i found and ill try to test it on another amd64 computer to see if the arquitecture is causing the bug
[19:02] <soonick_cancun> thank you for your time ;)
[19:04] <bdmurray> soonick_cancun: no problem, thank you for helping out!
[19:05] <soonick_cancun> bdmurray: ;) see you
[19:05] <hggdh> Nattgew: this bug has a binary dsdt
[19:07] <jcastro> bdmurray: pong
[19:08] <bdmurray> jcastro: a triager who just left and I were looking at an abiword bug, nothing that exciting
[19:09] <jcastro> ah
[19:10] <jcastro> the 2.6 inclusion bug?
[19:10] <bdmurray> no, just some odd behaviour that I thought you might know someone who could help out with
[19:10] <Nattgew> hggdh what does that mean exactly?
[19:27] <sectech> Can someone wishlist bug #237941? It's been reported upstream... I have linked the bug to the report
[19:28] <sectech> I can't find a dup on launchpad for this issue
[19:32] <sectech> Hopefully I did that right...
[20:40] <derien> hi all
[20:41] <hggdh> hi derien
[20:42] <derien> is it possible to help you guys out? i allways wanted to get more involved into ubuntu
[20:42] <hggdh> it is possible, and you are welcome
[20:42] <derien> cool thx
[20:43] <hggdh> derien: if you wan tot help triaging bugs, you may want to read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs
[20:45] <bdmurray> derien: if you have any specific questions feel free to ask
[20:46] <derien> oh, i have a lot of questions
[20:47] <derien> which programming languages are you using for fixing bugs?
[20:48] <persia> derien: Any and all.
[20:49] <derien> great. so i can learn a lot
[20:49] <persia> Mostly C, python, perl, shell, make though.
[20:49] <derien> no java? :-(
[20:49] <persia> Things like Java, Ruby, Haskell, OCaml, etc. tend to be less common.
[20:50] <derien> ok, good to know
[20:52] <derien> and you guys take charge of every bug in ubuntu? how many are there?
[20:52] <techno_f1eak> if i can't reproduce bug #237910, can i mark it as invalid? it works perfectly normal, as it should
[20:54] <bdmurray> techno_f1eak: possibly, I'm curious about their version of thunderbird though that line from apport is quite odd
[20:55] <bdmurray> techno_f1eak: you might also consider adding a screencast of what you did to make sure you and the reporter are on the same page
[20:57] <techno_f1eak> bdmurray: ok :)
[20:58] <derien> can everyone pick any bug in the launchpad?
[20:59] <pwnguin> well, no.
[20:59] <pwnguin> the most obvious case is "security bugs"
[21:00] <pwnguin> but basically, yea, anyone can work on bugs. you are one of the "many eyes making bugs shallow"
[21:00] <techno_f1eak> another one, bug #237905 can be due to the website being designed to work with certain versions of a browser, so what do i mark it as?
[21:00] <kees> well, "private" bugs.  security bugs can be worked on, they just have a slightly different work-flow
[21:01] <derien> could you explain me the "normal" work-flow? pick, patch and reup?
[21:05] <pwnguin> theres a wiki page that kinda outlines that
[21:06] <pwnguin> ubuntu's big enough that there are people who specialize in each of the three verbs you listed
[21:07] <pwnguin> some people triage bugs, making sure the bug exists and asks the submitter for more information etc
[21:09] <derien> and where shall i begin as a newcomer?
[21:09] <pwnguin> start with your own bugs ;)
[21:10] <pwnguin> if there's software in Ubuntu you'd like to see better overall, start looking at the bug reports there. especially troublesome are the reports that have seen no attention
[21:10] <pwnguin> "new/unconfirmed" type bugs
[21:11] <pwnguin> derien: the wiki page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs is a good place to start reading. I'm sure #ubuntu-bugs will be happy to answer questions about it :)
[21:12] <derien> ok, i read it all night long.
[22:01] <leoquant> is this site off. supported by ubuntu (alan pope)? : http://screencasts.ubuntu.com/  its not really up=to-date (coming soon-button with the 8.04 version)
[22:04] <mrooney> leoquant: well, it is on the domain so it must be somewhat official, although it does appear very out of date
[22:05] <leoquant> mroony. that button on the left.......
[22:08] <leoquant> perhaps we tranform it into a 8.04.1 button.
[22:18] <dupondje> ogasawara: helloow
[22:18] <dupondje> :D
[22:19] <ogasawara> dupondje: hiya, I posted a quick update to your bug report
[22:19] <dupondje> I saw, i'm home now, next to the pc :)
[22:19] <dupondje> dunno what I can try :D
[22:20] <ogasawara> dupondje: refresh my memory which bug id your report is
[22:20] <dupondje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/235889
[22:20] <dupondje> upgraded to newest kernel that came out this week
[22:20] <dupondje> no fix
[22:21] <ogasawara> dupondje: yah, I wouldn't expect it to have been resolved
[22:21] <dupondje> me neither :) but ok, I tried it :P
[22:21] <ogasawara> dupondje: that basically had fixes for specific SRU's
[22:21] <ogasawara> dupondje: be right back . . .
[22:42] <mrooney> bug 237990, is there any known master for this?
[22:42] <mrooney> it links to a forum post, apparently updating from -proposed fixes it
[22:42] <mrooney> so that would seem to imply it has already been addressed
[22:44] <bdmurray> mrooney: you could check the changelog of the proposed package maybe
[22:45] <mrooney> the problem is I have no idea what package it is
[22:45] <mrooney> what package is the Appearances app?
[22:46] <mrooney> gnome-appearance-properties, got it :)
[22:52] <mrooney> bdmurray: got it... bug 236778, should I tag as metabug?
[22:53] <bdmurray> mrooney: that'd be great!
[23:40] <ogasawara> dupondje: sorry for the delay - while we're waiting for an Intrepid kernel to become available you may want to give the git bisect a try if you're comfortable
[23:40] <ogasawara> dupondje: we obviously don't expect bug reporters to know how to do that, but it will help
[23:41] <dupondje> I understand :)
[23:42] <dupondje> oki
[23:42] <dupondje> its a bug
[23:42] <dupondje> in ubuntu kernel patches ...
[23:42] <dupondje> compiled the kernel the Ubuntu kernels are based on
[23:43] <dupondje> and that one works
[23:45] <dupondje> linux_2.6.24.orig.tar.gz it is
[23:47] <dupondje> ogasawara ?
[23:48] <ogasawara> dupondje: so I think the hardy kernel was rebased with the <IP_ADDRESS> stable kernel from upstream
[23:49] <dupondje> http://packages.ubuntu.com/hardy/linux-image-2.6.24-16-generic
[23:49] <dupondje> here I got the tar from
[23:49] <dupondje> compiled without the ubuntu patch: works
[23:49] <dupondje> with patch: crash
[23:50] <ogasawara> dupondje: care to post your findings to the bug report?  It'll be easier for me to bring it to the attn of the kernel team
[23:50] <dupondje> i'll do
[23:51] <dupondje> there are changes in the scheduler.c
[23:51] <dupondje> in that patch
[23:51] <dupondje> so prolly something missed there
[23:53] <dupondje> comment added
[23:54] <ogasawara> dupondje: can you be specific about which patch too
[23:55] <dupondje> fixed
[23:55] <dupondje> :)
[23:55] <dupondje> going to sleep
[23:55] <dupondje> nite :D