[18:42] <Mooncairn> Does anyone have an opinion on Lenovo Flex 5 line of laptops?
[18:43] <cmaloney> haven't tried them, though JoDee loved her Uoga from LTU
[18:44] <cmaloney> it's also twice the price afaict
[20:40] <Mooncairn> I found a Yoga that's competitively priced to a particular Flex 5 model. The Flex 5 has a 4k 500-nit screen, but other than that the Yoga with a WUXGA 300-nit screen is more powerful (better CPU, better iGPU, faster RAM).
[20:40] <Mooncairn> I'm currently leaning toward the Yoga.
[20:58] <Mooncairn> Well, after seeing some comparison videos, the GPU in each both have their pros and cons, but I don't do much gaming ATM even if I like the idea of at least being able to run some games.
[21:03] <Mooncairn> Or, I could buy a cheap replacement power adapter for my 2009 MacBook Pro and continue kicking the can down the road on a replacement laptop. ;-)
[21:22] <jrwren> the 15yo mac book pro is superior. :p


[02:46] <OerHeks> Do not !... https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/commandline/2016/11/17/do-not-change-linux-files-using-windows-apps-and-tools/
[02:47] <OerHeks> platinum members care about linux
[04:00] <R13ose> This is happening to me again: http://pastebin.com/9Up28Z60
[04:02] <R13ose> bbl
[10:33] <R13ose> Hi
[10:41] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[13:49] <R13ose> Hi
[13:52] <lotuspsychje> good afternoon to all
[13:57] <lotuspsychje> welcome Roy
[13:58] <Roy> thanks lotuspsychje
[14:09] <lotuspsychje> !info linux-image-generic xenial
[14:09] <ubot5`> linux-image-generic (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version <IP_ADDRESS>.50 (xenial), package size 2 kB, installed size 12 kB
[14:09] <R13ose> This is happening to me again: http://pastebin.com/9Up28Z60 I was using Firefox so only happened in there.
[14:11] <lotuspsychje> R13ose: ive seen softpedia article, kde plasma users were urged to reinstall
[14:11] <lotuspsychje> perhaps related?
[14:11] <R13ose> lotuspsychje: reinstall because?
[14:11] <Roy> Huh? !info gives information about a package in a cirtain repo?
[14:11] <daftykins> because it's nearly Christmas! \o/
[14:11] <daftykins> (not really)
[14:12] <lotuspsychje> R13ose: lemme refind article holdon
[14:13] <lotuspsychje> R13ose: not sure if this is your case ok
[14:13] <lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/kde-neon-users-urged-to-upgrade-their-systems-or-reinstall-the-linux-distro-510183.shtml
[14:15] <daftykins> hrmm
[14:15] <R13ose> How do I upgrade to KDE 5.8?
[14:16] <daftykins> what a mess
[14:16] <daftykins> ask in #kubuntu
[14:16] <lotuspsychje> yeah good idea
[14:17] <daftykins> quick google says "you have to install KDE Neon to use the latest version"
[14:18] <R13ose> Thanks
[14:21] <lotuspsychje> Roy: yes, ubottu shows info about packages from several ubuntu versions and their used repo
[14:28] <R13ose> daftykins: can I ask in #ubuntu as well?
[14:28] <daftykins> -_-
[14:29] <R13ose> -_-
[14:30] <daftykins> the topics of a channel tell you what they are for.
[14:30] <R13ose> ok
[14:39] <lotuspsychje> hey BluesKaj
[14:39] <BluesKaj> hi lotuspsychje
[14:45] <lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: <R13ose> This is happening to me again: http://pastebin.com/9Up28Z60 I was using Firefox so only happened in there.
[14:45] <lotuspsychje> perhaps you might know?
[14:54] <BluesKaj> lotuspsychje, sorry I haven't seen that before on FF
[14:54] <lotuspsychje> no sweat
[15:00] <daftykins> we were last told it was on multiple browsers
[15:03] <R13ose> this is multiple browsers but I tend to use firefox more these days.
[15:03] <BluesKaj> lotuspsychje, I tried chromium as well, couldn't replicate
[15:08] <daftykins> intel woes + bad choice of laptop
[15:20] <R13ose> Yet, I didn't seem to have problems with Gnome at all.  Yet, this has happened in KDE.
[15:22] <daftykins> time to switcheroo
 I tried to configure bumblebee last week. But I didn't succeed. Now I'm using nvidia-prime.
 Do any of you use nvidia optimus based laptops?
[15:24] <Roy> I don't think those came trough since I switched to vpn before I sent those, did they?
[15:25] <daftykins> no, but this isn't a support channel
[15:25] <daftykins> bumblebee hasn't been relevant for many years, you should be looking at nvidia-prime
[15:27] <Roy> daftykins, thank you.
[15:28] <Roy> In that case, I don't even need to find support anymore. It seems to work okay using nvidia-prime. :)
[15:29] <lotuspsychje> lol
[15:29] <daftykins> heh
[15:29] <lotuspsychje> !yay | Roy
[15:29] <ubot5`> Roy: Glad you made it! :-)
[15:29]  * daftykins blows the end of his gun and holsters it
[15:29] <daftykins> most everyone with optimus gets video tearing still, it's simply not good on Linux
[15:35] <R13ose> what is normally talked about here?
[15:35] <Roy> I haven't found a serious problem concerning screentearing while playing two games today on the nvidia profile.
[15:36] <lotuspsychje> R13ose: ubuntu discussions
[15:36] <R13ose> like?
[15:37] <lotuspsychje> R13ose: discussions about ubuntu :p
[15:37] <Roy> I'm running Ubuntu Gnome on my new xiaomi notebook air 13"
[15:37] <R13ose> do many people use Ubuntu on macs?
[15:37] <lotuspsychje> Roy: use #ubuntu for issues
[15:37] <Roy> Quite suprised about how nice everything runs.
[15:37] <daftykins> i thought they only did cheap exploited phones
[15:38] <daftykins> (xiaomi)
[15:38] <lotuspsychje> R13ose: many ubuntu lovers do, if their mac version can run ubuntu
[15:38] <R13ose> can't all macs run ubuntu?
[15:38] <daftykins> not well, no
[15:38] <lotuspsychje> !mac
[15:38] <ubot5`> For help on installing and using Ubuntu on a Mac, see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MactelSupportTeam/CommunityHelpPages
[15:38] <Roy> They make all kinds of things, even smart bicycles.
[15:38] <daftykins> and the wiki above is an outdated mess
[15:39] <daftykins> hah
[15:39] <lotuspsychje> daftykins: think they edited lately, but surely not real up to date :p
[15:40] <OerHeks> daftykins, amdgpu 1.230 will get better http://news.softpedia.com/news/open-source-amdgpu-and-radeon-linux-drivers-bring-tearfree-dri3-by-default-510302.shtml
[15:40] <OerHeks> or 1.20
[15:41] <daftykins> ah i was mostly talking tearing on nvidia optimus hybrid setups
[15:57] <DJones> daftykins: Must admit, that optimus seems to work fine for me with intel/Nvidia 750M, maybe I'm the lucky one
[15:58] <DJones> I've not had any issues with tearing, saying that I leave nvidia on all the time, I don't bother swiotching between the two
[16:00] <lotuspsychje> weird invention, to disable a better graphics card
[16:00] <lotuspsychje> who not just make it low mode or something if your not a gamer
[16:00] <lotuspsychje> *why
[16:07] <lotuspsychje> bbl
[16:10] <daftykins> DJones: you can't switch in some setups, depends if it's muxing or muxless - also we're talking fullscreen games for tearing, so do you do that? :)
[16:21] <Roy> DJones, Do you also use nvidia-prime?
[16:22] <Roy> Oh, I see. I want my batterylife to be okay, I don't always have my charger by hand.
[16:22] <DJones> Roy: Yes I do
[16:23] <Roy> With Bumblebee, I could get 7+ hours browsing the web. With the gpu completely disabled.
[16:23] <DJones> My laptop is permantaly on power anyway
[16:25] <daftykins> great way to murder the battery :)
[16:26] <Roy> I think it's better to stay connected to power to preserve battery cycles.
[16:27] <daftykins> that's not how it works
[16:28] <daftykins> typically, staying tethered and continually staying at top charge eventually murders the entire cell pack
[16:28] <daftykins> very very common thing.
[16:31] <Roy> Ah, that's true.
[16:33] <daftykins> i tend to tell clients to remove the battery if a machine won't move... but then it's rare that i'll be up against those that don't move that are running a laptop thankfully :)
[16:34] <Roy> My MacBook (2011) still has it's original battery. Still lasts for 5 hours on a charge.
[16:35] <Roy> But, I use it during transit. It's only on charger when I'm working. (09:00 - 17:00)
[16:42] <daftykins> *nod*
[16:42] <daftykins> a travelling businessman client of mine, his laptops last great until we move him to a new one, then practically overnight the old model will cease to hold a charge
[16:42] <daftykins> well, feels overnight but it's probably more like 3 months going by :D
[16:43] <BluesKaj> my 3yr old laptop battery lasts about 3 hrs, tops
[16:55] <Wirehunter> I switched username from Roy to something I can register :)
[16:55] <daftykins> that asus sandybridge i5 i sold was from 2011, that kept going for 8hrs even as i sold it
[16:55] <daftykins> i think the mate that bought it got a good deal there
[16:55] <daftykins> £250 for i5, 8GB RAM, 256GB SSD
[16:59] <Wirehunter>  /msg NickServ VERIFY REGISTER Wirehunter uiqhgruftehk
[17:00] <Wirehunter> Oops
[17:01] <daftykins> publically logged channel ;) but i don't remember if anything in that is important
[17:01] <daftykins> think it's fine, but always best to use the status window
[17:02] <OerHeks> it is no password,just the confirmationcode
[17:05] <daftykins> yarr
[17:06] <Wirehunter> I did the registration itself to the server. (I'm using hexchat) But now I didn't think about that anymore. :/
[17:07] <OerHeks> Wirehunter, i can see it worked, congrats
[17:08] <lotuspsychje> dinnertime, laterz guys
[17:10] <Wirehunter> OerHeks, Thanks
[17:11] <daftykins> now you can configure SASL authentication :)
[17:17] <Wirehunter> Ah, thanks for pointing that out.
[17:19] <OerHeks> oh wait, i forgot that after reinstall ..
[17:20] <OerHeks> done
[17:21] <daftykins> since it sends your password over plaintext though, you'll want to connect to freenode by SSL
[17:22] <OerHeks> I know, i am a high target, etc
[17:22] <OerHeks> wicked
[17:22] <daftykins> :D
[17:22] <daftykins> well the above was for Wirehunter too ^
[17:23] <OerHeks> 3 attempts/minute on<EMAIL_ADDRESS>... no, just joking
[17:24] <daftykins> now you typed it out in a logged channel the bots are gonna spam it!
[17:26] <nicomachus> OerHeks: target value doesn't matter anymore. You could just be another bot in the net
[17:46] <nicomachus> ugh. my wifi is cutting out like every 30 secs.
[18:14] <daftykins> o0
[18:14] <daftykins> failing router?
[18:15] <nicomachus> daftykins: don't think so. It's here at the office, so I'm just gonna call IT.
[18:16] <daftykins> ah
[18:16] <daftykins> makes me cringe hearing how folk in the office are on wireless :(
[18:17] <nicomachus> well my desktop is wired and connected to the intranet
[18:17] <daftykins> friend of mine that's a software dev for a huge dev firm in Houston is trying to do MS Azure performance testing... they got their wired connections taken away ;_;
[18:17] <nicomachus> but we also have a wireless AP that is a separate network for personal devices. In this case, my laptop.
[18:17] <daftykins> oh you get given both? that's handy, also keep hearing about businesses that provide laptops only
[18:17] <daftykins> oh it's personal only?
[18:18] <nicomachus> and the wireless network doesn't have access to intranet sites or any connection to the main network. so less locked-down in terms of security.
[18:18] <nicomachus> which means I can actually SSH into my home server without sending up a flag for IT to call me and inquire about.
[18:18] <daftykins> did you get far with the VT-d thing?
[18:19] <nicomachus> yea once I enabled that it worked fine.
[18:19] <nicomachus> took a bit to find the option in the BIOS though
[18:19] <daftykins> oh so it wasn't even passworded? i thought that was why you hadn't done it
[18:21] <nicomachus> you know, for how strict they are at some aspects of security, they are incredibly lax when it comes to individual machines.
[18:21] <nicomachus> I shouldn't be able to boot from USB or change BIOS settings or probably even install a VM without admin approval, but here we are.
[18:21] <daftykins> i truly thought you were only wrestling last week because the BIOS was locked down
[18:22] <nicomachus> no I just didn't wanna reboot at the time. haha
[18:22] <daftykins> holy crap, man - you shock me
[18:22] <nicomachus> haha why?
[18:22] <daftykins> so are you still going down that insane VM route instead of just discovering the Windows tools?
[18:22] <nicomachus> no, I'm just bringing in my laptop and using that for a lot of stuff.
[18:23] <daftykins> >_<
[18:26] <daftykins> nicomachus: is it dev you do?
[18:27] <nicomachus> daftykins: no. nothing IT related.
[18:27] <daftykins> ah
[18:28] <daftykins> definitely pretty weird them not locking things down, i do it even for my travelling biz client
[18:28] <nicomachus> oh well. Not much risk from our type of office.
[18:28] <daftykins> nah given they've gotta get past the physical security to get in anyway, all bets would be off
[18:33] <nicomachus> physical security is VERY strong. haha
[18:34] <daftykins> cor proper rain again here, somehow it's turning to ice on the roof
[18:53] <nicomachus> this SSL error in Chromium is starting to get very annoying.
[18:54] <nicomachus> http://i.imgur.com/oqXtumW.jpg
[19:05] <daftykins> someone the other day said the next version sorts it
[19:05] <daftykins> but that it's probably not in the repos yet
[19:11] <EriC^^> howdy
[19:16] <daftykins> heya \o how are ye?
[19:56] <EriC^^> daftykins: hey, good you?
[19:57] <daftykins> mmm not bad here cheers
[19:58] <EriC^^> cool
[19:58] <EriC^^> :D
[20:12] <EriC^^> i've got some dr pepper from a large supermarket here
[20:12] <daftykins> :D
[20:12] <daftykins> i sometimes treat myself with a bottle of that
[20:13] <EriC^^> i wonder why they dont sell it everywhere here, just pepsi/coke miranda and 7up usually
[20:13] <EriC^^> i really wish they would bring more dr pepper/cherry and taco bell here
[20:13] <EriC^^> not a single taco bell here
[20:14] <daftykins> miranda o0
[20:14] <EriC^^> yeah
[20:14] <daftykins> not heard of that one!
[20:14] <EriC^^> it's like crush
[20:14] <EriC^^> it tastes ugh
[20:15] <EriC^^> https://www.makro.co.za/Images/Products/Large/MIN_176630001_EAA.jpg?v=20160308


[14:03] <tdannecy> I'm having an issue starting Docky. I'm running Precise. Here's the pastebin: http://pastebin.com/9PgizJMC
[14:07] <knome> tdannecy, try asking the docky devs
[15:11] <xubuntu65w> I'd installed a 32 xubuntu system and wanted to change to the 64... so I got the 64 bit iso, loaded on the USB and rebooted... chose the wrong option (to replace) on the install screen and BANG - my home partition was wiped away too.
[15:11] <xubuntu65w> How stupid is that?
[15:11] <knome> xubuntu65w, well it's contrary to the mantra "always take backups before upgrading/reinstalling"
[15:11] <xubuntu65w> Is there a place where one can ask for the installation to be a little more *careful* if there already are exisiting / and /home partitions?
[15:12] <xubuntu65w> I mean I do have backups, but I'd configured a whole bunch of customized things on my /home partition, which I happily thought will be preserved.
[15:13] <knome> xubuntu65w, you can file a bug against ubiquity, but i really don't think that's going to change
[15:13] <knome> xubuntu65w, if the developers went that route, there would be a lot to notice the user about, and then nobody would read that list
[15:13] <xubuntu65w> I was ready to break a few windows - one click and gone. Dang.. in any case, just wanted to rant, to let off steam, now that the damage is already done.
[15:14] <knome> xubuntu65w, that doesn't happen if you *upgrade* from the image
[15:14] <knome> well, in theory...
[15:14] <knome> happy to hear you have backups :)
[15:14] <knome> xubuntu65w, but as i said.. you can file a bug against ubiquity and describe the situation
[15:15] <xubuntu65w> Ok - thank, knome - where do I get to that?
[15:15] <knome> run "ubuntu-bug ubiquity" on terminal or https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+filebug
[15:16] <xubuntu65w> I will do. at least it'll give help me get peace of mind, by putting out a piece of mind :-)
[15:16] <xubuntu65w> Thx, and cheers
[15:16] <knome> no problem, and enjoy xubuntu
[15:20] <jarnos> "light-locker-command -l && xfce4-session-logout -s" does not work for me in 14.04. Lock-on-suspend is false in light-locker settings and in session settings, but it should still work, I think.
[15:27] <brainwash> jarnos: is light-locker enabled and running in the background?
[15:29] <jarnos> brainwash, yes, but the suspend command pops up with dialog requesting password. That does not happen, if I lock by e.g. xscreensaver-command.
[15:32] <brainwash> sounds like the suspend action is inhibited. therefore, it requires root privileges to continue
[15:33] <brainwash> meaning your user password
[15:34] <brainwash> is there any terminal output?
[15:35] <brainwash> furthermore, can you suspend the system while from the unlock screen?
[15:35] <brainwash> -while
[15:36] <freezeeedos> hello, #xubuntu
[15:36] <freezeeedos> empty desktop after login; what's up with that ? :p
[15:37] <freezeeedos> I've already tried resetting the config
[15:37] <freezeeedos> running 14.04
[15:38] <brainwash> clean the session cache ~/.cache/sessions and try again
[15:38] <freezeeedos> I don't have easy access to the logs, it a friends machine
[15:38] <freezeeedos> brainwash, first thing i tried
[15:38] <GridCube> freezeeedos, press alt-f2 and type: xfwm4 --replace
[15:39] <GridCube> open a terminal and run: sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get install xubuntu-desktop --reinstall
[15:40] <freezeeedos> I'll try that in a tty
[15:43] <freezeeedos> fixing a machine via SMS is a pain in the butt
[15:45] <freezeeedos> also, thanks for your suggestions, guys
[15:59] <freezeeedos> nope
[16:00] <freezeeedos> didn't work
[16:00] <freezeeedos> probably a useless upgrade that broke stuff
[16:02] <holstein> freezeeedos: you have a 'friends machine'? and you did an upgrade? and you cannot get to the desktop? and you have cleared the users config? have you tried the guest user?
[16:02] <freezeeedos> I don't have the machine with me
[16:02] <holstein> freezeeedos: you are not sitting in front of the machine? if not, i would just send the friend here
[16:03] <freezeeedos> she's not used to this kind of stuff
[16:03] <holstein> freezeeedos: sure. and nothing you or i or any volunteer here can make anyone more comfortable.. those are the steps i would take in that case.. test the guest account, then, if the guest account works, remove the user config
[16:04] <holstein> 11:38 < brainwash> clean the session cache ~/.cache/sessions and try again
[16:04] <holstein> ^ thats what i would try.. and thats not a "log" to access in any way.. its resetting the configuration that could be causing the behavior you are stating
[16:05] <freezeeedos> holstein, I know. As I said, I told her to try that
[16:05] <holstein> freezeeedos: yes.. and if you cant comfirm that she has tried it, or knows what that means, then, you cant assume its not the "Fix" for the sistuation
[16:06] <freezeeedos> I can confirm it
[16:06] <freezeeedos> she sent me a photo of the console
[16:06] <holstein> freezeeedos: hows is the guest user? is that working?
[16:06] <holstein> freezeeedos: sudo apt-get update  and share errors..
[16:07] <freezeeedos> We'll try that later. She's got to go somewhere
[16:07] <freezeeedos> but thanks
[16:08] <freezeeedos> so, any of you guys encountered this problem personally ?
[16:08] <holstein> freezeeedos: yes
[16:08] <freezeeedos> interesting.
[16:09] <holstein> freezeeedos: i run "sudo apt-get update" and deal with errors.. i then run "sudo apt-get dist-upgrade" and deal with errors.. then, i check and see if the issue is system-wide or with my user account
[16:09] <holstein> freezeeedos: ppa's can break this.. any user config can cause that..
[16:10] <freezeeedos> holstein, agreed. I avoided adding any PPAs
[16:12] <holstein> freezeeedos: i use them if i need, understanding the risks. but, we are not talking about our systems
[16:12] <freezeeedos> right. I use them on my personnal machine as well
[16:13] <freezeeedos> we're linux guys. we can't help ourselves, right ;)
[16:13] <holstein> !ppa
[16:13] <holstein> ppa's are a handy way of adding newer packages.. but, they can "break" configs or other things..
[16:14] <freezeeedos> indeed they can break stuff. they can break stuff HARD.
[16:15] <xubuntu62w> I have hibernation button,but when i try to hibernate it says-"Failed to hibernate session.GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.Failed: Operation not supported"
[16:15] <holstein> xubuntu62w: AFAIK, its disabled
[16:15] <holstein> http://askubuntu.com/questions/462472/xubuntu-14-04-how-to-enable-hibernate
[16:15] <holstein> personally, i never saw an advantage over just shutting down..
[16:16] <xubuntu62w> I have already edited this file.It didn't help.
[16:17] <xubuntu62w> holstein,well,you don't have to always be watching over your computer.I know that if i leave,it will hibernate automatically
[16:18] <xubuntu62w> So it doesn't waste energy beign suspended
[16:18] <holstein> xubuntu62w: i *still* dont personally see a need for hibernation, and would prefer suspend, or shutdown. but thats not the point
[16:18] <holstein> xubuntu62w: what have you done? did you reboot after changing that config?
[16:18] <xubuntu62w> Yes
[16:19] <holstein> xubuntu62w: so, to refine your statement above, you changed what file exactly? to what? and then you get that error message? was that the same message before you edited the file?
[16:21] <xubuntu62w> No.When i edited file hibernation  button showed up.I did exactly what was told here(http://askubuntu.com/questions/462472/xubuntu-14-04-how-to-enable-hibernate).
[16:22] <holstein> xubuntu62w: so, you edited "/var/lib/polkit-1/localauthority/10-vendor.d/com.ubuntu.desktop.pkla" ?
[16:22] <xubuntu62w> Yes
[16:23] <holstein> xubuntu62w: you can pastebin that file here..
[16:23] <holstein> !pastebin
[16:24] <xubuntu62w> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8404287/
[16:25] <holstein> xubuntu62w: i would also try hibernate command via terminal.. see what the exact errors are, and if you are just having a permissions issue
[16:25] <holstein> try sudo pm-hibernate
[16:27] <xubuntu62w> nothing happened except my sd card volume remounted
[16:28] <holstein> xubuntu62w: you can run "sudo pm-hibernate" in the terminal, and pastebin the output
[16:29] <xubuntu62w> it didn't show anything. sudo pmi action hibernate says-http://paste.ubuntu.com/8404325/
[16:29] <xubuntu62w> i tried both
[16:32] <holstein> xubuntu62w: referring to https://help.ubuntu.com/14.04/ubuntu-help/power-hibernate.html and https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PowerManagement/Hibernate makes me think it should be working
[16:33] <holstein> xubuntu62w: im thinking it may be something else with your system supporting linux, or config
[16:34] <holstein> i would start https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PowerManagement/Hibernate#swsusp and probably at this point, be thinking about a workaround, like locking the screen
[16:36] <xubuntu62w> i'll read.thank you
[16:51] <xubuntu46w>  I added perl script to autostart,and after i reboot xfce panel appear for several seconds and the disappear.
[16:52] <xubuntu46w> appears for several seconds,and then disappears*
[16:53] <holstein> xubuntu46w: i would try removing the script i added to make sure its the cause, then i would take ths script to a programming channel to make sure its "correct", or share it here or in #ubuntu
[16:55] <xubuntu46w> I am not sure that matter is in script.I tried to disable caps lock button,so i added script to autostart,and panel also disappeared.
[16:56] <holstein> xubuntu46w: i would remove the script, and test..
[16:56] <holstein> xubuntu46w: then, i would share the script here, or in a perl channel..
[16:56] <holstein> !paste
[16:57] <xubuntu46w> This one https://github.com/iberianpig/xSwipe/blob/master/xSwipe.pl
[16:57] <holstein> perl, or general programming.. otherwise, i would try http://askubuntu.com/questions/410499/make-setxkbmap-preferences-being-set-at-startup
[16:58] <holstein> xubuntu46w: the creators of the xSwipe code might provide support..
[16:59] <holstein> i would try and just do it natively
[16:59] <xubuntu46w> natively&
[16:59] <xubuntu46w> natively?
[16:59] <holstein> xubuntu46w: right. i dont feel i need a github project to work with to disable my capslock key
[17:00] <holstein> xubuntu46w: i would try something with setxkbmap for example
[17:00] <xubuntu46w> It doesn't disable caps lock.I just said that two scripts that i added to autostart crashed my xfce panel
[17:01] <xubuntu46w> One was xswipe,another just disables caps via setxkbmap
[17:02] <holstein> xubuntu46w: sure.. i would just remove them, and see that they a are infact crashing the panel.. if so, i would ask the creators of the programs.. or, if this is a script you have made, i would share it, and see if any volunteer has any ideas
[17:02] <holstein> otherwise, if you want to disable caps lock, i dont think you need a 3rd party application
[17:05] <xubuntu46w> i didn't use 3rd party applications to disable caps lock.I added this script-http://paste.ubuntu.com/8404544/-it crashed xfce panel.I fixed it.Some time later i added xswipe to autostart,it also crashed panel.
[17:05] <knome> can we stop telling the same thing over and over again, both?
[17:05] <knome> please?
[17:05] <xubuntu46w> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8404544/
[17:06] <knome> xubuntu46w, if you run the scripts from terminal when panel is running, does the panel crash then or only when the scripts are autostarted?
[17:06] <xubuntu46w> no.only when the scripts are autostarted
[17:07] <holstein> i might just try sleeping the autostart of it, then
[17:56] <vertz> Hi! Can i no longer choose to view how much power/time is left of my battery charge?
[18:01] <brainwash> vertz: no longer? so it worked at some point, but what exactly does not work anymore?
[18:02] <vertz> you know the battery icon in the notification area
[18:02] <vertz> before you could show reminding battery % and estimated time
[18:02] <vertz> now it shows an icon that makes me believe its plugged in the charger
[18:03] <brainwash> before? please explain this in more detail
[18:03] <vertz> after i updated to 14.10 beta or whatever it is
[18:03] <vertz> before as in 14.04
[18:03] <vertz> :)
[18:03] <brainwash> uhm.. why did you update to 14.04?
[18:03] <brainwash> to 14.10
[18:04] <vertz> eeeeeeh, i was drunk? :P
[18:04] <vertz> why shouldnt i?
[18:04] <vertz> someone have to try it out
[18:05] <brainwash> well, did you file a bug report then?
[18:05] <brainwash> you are beta tester now
[18:05] <vertz> no, not yet, not sure if its a bug, since there is no option
[18:05] <vertz> for that specific thing
[18:05] <vertz> so just wanted to check with you guys first :)
[18:06] <brainwash> the question is, are you talking about the indicator-power or the new power-manager panel plugin?
[18:06] <vertz> this is not the idicator-power
[18:07] <vertz> its the power-manager panel plugin
[18:08] <brainwash> ok, I suggest that you file a bug report then
[18:08] <vertz> but, if im not mistaken, -believe- it changed icons when plugged-in/unplugged before i upgraded after install
[18:08] <vertz> brainwash: yup, will do :)
[18:08] <brainwash> you can still "fall back" to indicator-power and remove the panel plugin
[18:09] <vertz> cept from that, everything seems to be working excellent
[18:09] <brainwash> currently there don't seem to be many people who test the upcoming release
[18:10] <vertz> love to check out the latest and greatest! atleast on a machine where stability isnt that important
[18:10] <vertz> like this livingroom laptop
[18:12] <brainwash> you should file the report directly on https://bugzilla.xfce.org/
[18:12] <vertz> yes sir!
[18:13] <brainwash> and feel free to report other bugs too, there is much bug fixing going on currently :)
[18:14] <vertz> brainwash: of course, i'll report what i find :)
[18:14] <brainwash> thanks
[18:14] <vertz> there was one other thing i found last night, but i cant remember what it was !
[18:14] <vertz> hehe
[18:15] <vertz> now i remember, but its not xfce related, but so annoying
[18:16] <brainwash> would it affect a default xubuntu installation?
[18:17] <vertz> yes
[18:17] <brainwash> then it should matter
[18:19] <brainwash> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ for non-xfce issues
[18:19] <vertz> its not really a bug, but it should be an option
[18:20] <brainwash> that's a feature request :)
[18:21] <vertz> lets say you are in workspace 1 and firefox is running on workspace 2 and you open url from a terminal in workspace 1, it starts blinking in the panel on workspace 1
[18:21] <vertz> same goes for like skype
[18:21] <vertz> if that makes sense
[18:23] <brainwash> yeah, not sure if bug or feature
[18:25] <vertz> should be possible to turn it off, steals your focus hehe :)
[18:26] <holstein> i would look in the window manager settings
[18:26] <holstein> if i were going to make a feature request, i would try going as far upstream as possible, as well. no need to address anything in general xubuntu that can be addressed in xfce
[18:28] <vertz> holstein: yeah
[18:30] <vertz> i tried to make a patch last night but, i fucked it up and broke it :P
[18:30] <holstein> !language
[18:32] <vertz> holstein: do i not speak in calm, polite english?
[18:33] <Pici> Please no swearing here.
[18:33] <holstein> vertz: if you have a minute, just read the link i had the bot share.. if it applies,it applies.. if not, then disregard.. i was bringing it up due to your last statement
[18:33] <vertz> oh, sorry about that
[18:44] <vertz> brainwash: mind if i pm u?
[18:46] <xubuntu021> italiani in chat?
[18:46] <Unit193> !it
[20:09] <helloill> can someone spare 2 sec for apt command for wayland
[20:11] <bazhang> !info wayland
[20:17] <nomic> wayland?  if a package isn't in sudo apt-get
[20:17] <nomic> either its binary
[20:17] <nomic> The following sequence of commands successfully built Weston and XWayland on an Ubuntu 12.04 LTS system, on May 23rd, 2014. This system had previously been used to compile Xlib programs, and thus already had some dependencies (such as git, the compiler, and X11 header files) installed.  http://wayland.freedesktop.org/ubuntu12.04.html
[20:22] <ironhoof> I was wondering how to purge items from whisker, I removed a few programs, and there is blank items in the menu, they stil have the name, but no icon, and when you go itno menulibre they do not show to delete. Is there a quick way to purge those?
[20:25] <knome> ironhoof, you can use the "hide from menus" feature in menulibre for them
[20:26] <ironhoof> Yea, I read that. they are not listed in menulibre though, so I cant get to any settings for them.
[20:28] <knome> ironhoof, they should show up, but if that doesn't happen, i would check where their .desktop files are located on the HD
[20:29] <ironhoof> Ok, checking...
[20:33] <xubuntu97w> will upgrading from 13.10 to 14.04 change any settings or programs on my desktop.
[20:34] <xangua> your personal settings are stored in your home
[20:34] <knome> xubuntu97w, no, settings are kept as they are
[20:34] <knome> xubuntu97w, but as always, take backups before upgrading
[21:08] <xubuntu97w> will updating have any affect on my other partition?
[21:09] <ObrienDave> wich other partition?
[21:09] <ObrienDave> *which
[21:10] <xubuntu97w> I have two partitions on my hard drive. if I update xubuntu, will the other partition be affected in any way
[21:11] <ObrienDave> what is on the other partition?
[21:11] <xubuntu97w> lubuntu
[21:11] <ObrienDave> so, you have lubuntu on one, and xubuntu on the other?
[21:11] <xubuntu97w> yes
[21:12] <ObrienDave> i suppose not, but why do you want to do that when it's easy enough to switch DEs?
[21:12] <ObrienDave> why 2 separate?
[21:13] <xubuntu97w> I didn't know how to switch DE's at the time
[21:14] <ObrienDave> ah, seems you could rsync one partition to the other and just use one partition
[21:14] <knome> ObrienDave, though that's not the question
[21:15] <xubuntu97w> yes but that requires more work
[21:15] <knome> xubuntu97w, if they are separate installations, upgrading another won't affect the other
[21:15] <xubuntu97w> in any way,knome?
[21:15] <knome> no, since they don't share files.
[21:15] <xubuntu97w> ok
[21:16] <xubuntu97w> thank you
[21:17] <xubuntu97w> and updating will have no effect on the programs in use either?
[21:18] <knome> no.
[21:18] <xubuntu97w> awesome
[21:26] <recon_lap> I used to have wine installed on xubuntu, it appears that an update uninstalled it, I am wondering why?
[22:02] <helloill> can some spare 2 sec for mutt link.Sorry noob here.I need email client
[22:08] <superkuh> sudo apt-get install mutt didn't work?
[22:11] <helloill> nah i feel like using ff after i get a tutorial
[22:12] <superkuh> ... k.
[23:01] <helloill> Question here about replacement for ssh, should i install Mosh on my ubuntu system.NO/yes
[23:03] <knome> helloill, please do not take polls on this channel. ask yourself if you really need the replacement
[23:14] <jlolopez> exit
[23:33] <helloill_> exit
[23:37] <NOOBstat> Question here abount replacement for ssh, should i install Mosh on my ubuntu system.YES/no
[23:37] <knome> NOOBstat, hello helloill. still, please do not take polls on this channel.
[23:38] <NOOBstat> i just literly signed on a second ago....WAT
[23:39] <knome> NOOBstat, no need to play games.
[23:42] <NOOBstat> LOL!


[14:14] <davef> Welp, that's me booked in for le booster.
[14:19] <zxmpi> still trying to find one here that doesn't involve 3 hours of public transport with ratlickers
[14:19] <davef> Mine is only a 15min walk away
[14:20] <davef> But I can't have it until February, because I've had the 'rona less than 8 weeks ago.
[14:20] <zxmpi> i live on the posh side of the city and the idea that anyone doesn't have a car is not considered for a moment
[14:21] <davef> speaking of car.. I need to start shopping around for one
[14:21] <davef> and i've started looking to buy a house or condo
[14:24] <davef> I have the cash for a 2nd hand car, so I don't have to worry about that going on my credit report right before buying a property
[14:27] <zxmpi> isn't this the worst time to buy a car new or second hand due to the shortage of parts cutting production everywhere?
[14:32] <davef> not seen that here
[23:15] <davef> Can any Stargate SG-1 fans out there report Amanda Tapping's twitter account as being hacked? https://twitter.com/amandatapping
[23:15] <davef> It's now spewing cryptojunk.
[23:16] <zxmpi> maybe the ai entity has taken over her again? :-P
[23:16] <davef> Maybe, but if you would be so kind.
[23:17] <davef> And then when I tweet to @twitter, I then get blocked.. https://twitter.com/DavieDavieDave/status/1480667990253314052
[23:18] <zxmpi> done
[23:19] <davef> Merci Señor.
[23:20] <zxmpi> grassyarse
[23:22] <davef> Huh, there's a new Fresh Prince of Bel-Air.. a dramatic reboot o_O https://twitter.com/i/events/1480585507952369664
[23:23] <zxmpi> this time will smith is uncle phil? :-P https://imgur.com/gallery/LcRS2
[23:25] <davef> Sadly not, he is however an "executive" producer.


[09:04] <JaneW> FYI Edubuntu is sitting at #41 on the distrowatch 'last month' list ;)
[09:18] <ajmitch_> very impressive :)
[09:19] <JaneW> here is review (with valid points) http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/2619
[09:20] <JaneW> most of the critisisms are things we have discussed, and did want to do, we just didn't have the time and resources to acheive them on the first release. I am hoping we can add much more polish to ver 6.04
[09:22] <Burgundavia> the menu one is going to be a fun one
[09:22] <ajmitch_> for the next release, I should see about getting a zope product a friend & myself are developing into (ed)ubuntu, for providing a commentable document :)
[09:22] <ajmitch_> he's a teacher, so he's planned how to use this product for exam questions, etc
[09:23] <ajmitch_> what will your new job be?
[09:23] <Burgundavia> www.userful.com
[09:23] <Burgundavia> sales and marketing with them
[09:23] <ajmitch_> ah
[09:23] <Burgundavia> they do multiseat stuff, but percieve that Ubuntu might become a competitor
[09:24] <ajmitch_> I really hope you can still contribute
[09:24] <Burgundavia> I am going to hammer it out in writing, don't worry
[09:24] <ajmitch_> might be? I'd say there could be a good chance it will be competitive in some way
[09:24] <Burgundavia> userful's big drive is libraries right now
[09:27] <ajmitch_> proprietary software will increasingly come under pressure from free solutions like ubuntu :)
[09:28] <Burgundavia> indeed
[09:28] <Burgundavia> I don't expect I will work for them for much more than a year
[09:31] <ajmitch_> I'm employed at the moment writing proprietary php code
[09:31] <ajmitch_> but there's no ubuntu overlap at the moment, thankfully
[09:32] <jsgotangco> i got an email before from one company that wanted me to write something for them like an endorsement..hehehe i declined
[09:35] <ajmitch_> what sort of endorsement? :)
[09:38] <jsgotangco> it was dodgy, they were selling services (migration, platform, etc.) and ubuntu was one of their pieces
[09:38] <jsgotangco> i told them they're better off sending an email to silbs
[10:06] <jsgotangco> hmmm kernel update
[10:06] <jsgotangco> brb
[12:13] <JaneW> oops
[12:13] <JaneW> sorry ;)
[12:17] <ajmitch_> hm, I was wanting to talk moodle with him, too :)
[12:25] <JaneW> Yagisan: ah right, what you doing here than?
[12:26] <Yagisan> JaneW: I work from home - I'm always around here somewhere
[12:26] <JaneW> ok
[12:27] <Yagisan> that and its too hot to go out today (35C)
[12:37] <JaneW> wow
[12:38] <JaneW> it's cool here today.... 17 degs
[12:44] <Yagisan> we expect about 20C tomorrow. My wife complains about the inconsistent weather here
[12:52] <spacey> JaneW, why is edubuntu not in launchpad?
[12:57] <JaneW> spacey: er...
[12:57] <JaneW> spacey: what do you mean exactly?
[12:57] <JaneW> for Rosetta?
[12:58] <spacey> just in general
[12:58] <jsgotangco> err..why?
[12:58] <spacey> for bugs and stuff
[12:58] <jsgotangco> its still ubuntu
[12:58] <jsgotangco> bugs should be in bugzilla
[12:58] <spacey> yeah ok its main
[12:58] <spacey> launchpad has lots of nifty features
[12:58] <spacey> :P
[12:59] <jsgotangco> malone is for universe at the moment
[01:00] <spacey> support tickets :P calendar :P uhhh
[01:00] <spacey> ok not too much atm then
[01:00] <spacey> bugfiling with launchpad is really nice :P
[03:38] <hno73> highvolt1ge: any progress on the website look? I'm looking at the moin skin now
[03:38] <hno73> I'm using various gartoon icons where needed
[03:45] <hno73> highvoltage: what's the word on the webpage?
[03:46] <hno73> I've been working on the moin skin a bit
[03:46] <highvoltage> hno73: sorry about that, bad signal
[03:46] <highvoltage> hno73: yes, i'm uploading new page now, have been in meeting all day, going back in about 5 min
[03:46] <hno73> np
[03:47] <highvoltage> hold on..
[03:47] <hno73> ok, thx
[03:47] <highvoltage> http://www.ossn.co.za/edubuntu/4/
[03:47] <highvoltage> tonight i'm turning all those wiki links into real pages.
[03:48] <hno73> great, I'll match up the wiki skin to that
[03:48] <highvoltage> elmo seems to be a bit busy though, but i'll stay on his case. do you perhaps know the name of the server the edubuntu site will be hosted on? i have a login, but forgot the server name :/
[03:48] <highvoltage> hno73: excellent, you're the man!
[03:49] <hno73> highvoltage: I don't know, but I have access to empty servers if we are really stuck
[04:10] <JaneW> highvoltage: http://www.ossn.co.za/edubuntu/4/ looks great
[04:10] <JaneW> highvoltage: I'd increase the font size in the bar on the RHS though, to match the bold cartoony icons
[04:21] <spacey> looks really nice
[04:31] <rcdiugun> hav'a question. Will Edubuntu be released on the same date as ubuntu?
[04:36] <magnon> should be, yes
[04:37] <magnon> but as I understood on Oliver, it might be pushed if there are serious problems, since we don't have the same pressure, but it's in that case a matter of days
[04:38] <rcdiugun> ah i see. I just read about it now and it suddenly got me thinking about a long-standing project of mine.
[04:39] <rcdiugun> Edubuntu just might be able to help me out with the project. :)
[04:40] <magnon> aha
[04:40] <magnon> do tell if you can
[04:43] <rcdiugun> Yupyup! :D If I get my logistics straightened out (and get enough support from city hall and a couple other orgs in the area) I hope to use edubuntu for a free summer computer camp project for public school kids and/or out-of-school youths here. :)
[04:49] <spacey> rcdiugun, sounds like its suited for such a thing :)
[04:50] <magnon> rcdiugun: edubuntu would probably ease your setup
[04:50] <magnon> and by next summer, edubuntu should be way better too :)
[05:19] <highvoltage>  /topic
[07:12] <hno73> highvoltage: How set are you on the top right area of that page?
[07:12] <hno73> I need some space for search, login, etc
[07:13] <hno73> I could skip the logo, or try to work in or around it
[07:14] <hno73> It would be good if it looked sensible on both the wiki and the static page
[07:17] <highvoltage> hno73: i'm not set on it too hard.
[07:17] <highvoltage> in fact, i need to redo that, currently the text is part of the image
[07:17] <highvoltage> i did it that way because i didn't have a css ref handy, and just needed to put something together quickly.
[07:17] <hno73> highvoltage: ok, I'm playing with some options too
[07:17] <highvoltage> i also though that those icons should be smaller
[07:18] <highvoltage> it feels a bit strange with the very big icons up there.
[07:18] <hno73> which? the main icons?
[07:18] <hno73> right
[07:18] <highvoltage> yes, the main icons.
[07:18] <hno73> 64x64 might be good
[07:18] <hno73> ok, that gives me some more space too
[07:18] <highvoltage> currently, the icons themselves are 70x70, and the images 90x90
[07:19] <highvoltage> but 64x64 sounds good.
[07:19] <highvoltage> hno73: do you have any page with a preview, or one that i can see on the wiki with the banner?
[07:20] <highvoltage> not that i'm rushing you, and not that it's urgent, i'm just curious to see how the text, etc will fit in.
[07:20] <hno73> No, it's just local. I can email you screenshots though
[07:21] <hno73> There are 6 items in the top right corner here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/
[07:21] <hno73> that I need to fit in
[07:21] <hno73> I might just move the logo off to the right so that the name is hidden but the circle remains
[07:22] <hno73> get the idea?
[07:22] <highvoltage> ah
[07:22] <highvoltage> yes. that's very helpful.
[07:23] <highvoltage> i have another idea.
[07:23] <highvoltage> what if we keep things more or less where they are, with smaller icons, and then put those two lines (search and login name, etc)...
[07:23] <highvoltage> in one single line above the icons?
[07:24] <highvoltage> i feel a bit wary to mess with the position of the logo.
[07:25] <hno73> Yeah, could do. You mean small icons on the front page and the wiki? or shrink them for the wiki?
[07:29] <highvoltage> smaller icons everywhere.
[07:29] <highvoltage> then we have a consistent look, and i think the smaller icons will look better.
[07:30] <highvoltage> we want a friendly look, but i'm sure we'll use more graphics withing the site later on, and in the wiki. so we won't loose much friendlyness-factor, i think.
[07:50] <highvoltage> hno73: i suppose it will be better for future merges if I call pages wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuScreenshots instead of /Screenshots?
[08:04] <hno73> highvoltage: yes, that will help
[08:13] <highvoltage> hno73: are you managing art.ubuntu.com? do you think we should use that for edubuntu-art, or should there be an art.edubuntu.org as well?
[08:15] <highvoltage> and what software is behind art.ubuntu.com?
[08:20] <highvoltage> ok, i need to leave now, been at work now for 16 hours, can't be very healthy :)
[08:20] <highvoltage> cheers!
[10:59] <hno73> ogra, see: http://www.omma.org.uk/files/temp/ (wiki layout)
[11:01] <ogra> hno73, ubercool :-D
[11:01] <hno73> ogra: just need to code it now :)
[11:01] <ogra> heh :)
[11:01] <hno73> (those are mock-ups)
[11:13] <ajmitch_> ah, ogra is here
[11:13] <ogra> yup
[11:14] <ajmitch_> hi
[11:15] <ajmitch_> ogra: you need moodle done asap?
[11:15] <ogra> yup
[11:15] <ajmitch_> hm ok
[11:15] <ogra> i just fixed gcompris, moodle is the only broken app left
[11:17] <ogra> but i dont get forward it seems :(
[11:18] <ogra> its not *that* urgent
[11:18] <ogra> :)
[11:20] <ajmitch_> it is if it needs to be promoted to main
[11:20] <ajmitch_> I doubt there'll be universe->main promotions once RC is out
[11:20] <ajmitch_> and it'll be getting hard even now
[11:21] <ogra> depends hiw good i am in convincing mdz ;)
[11:21] <ajmitch_> he'll need a *lot* of convicing
[11:22] <ajmitch_> and moodle will need tested
[11:22] <ajmitch_> since db & db user creation is easy to break
[11:22] <ogra> yup
[11:24] <ogra> take your time... if i cant convince mdz ...i cant ... dont worry...
[11:27] <ajmitch_> I want to see this in :)
[11:29] <ajmitch_> eek, malone above 500 bugs again
[11:29] <ogra> bddebian will care ;)
[11:29] <ogra> and \sh should be back tomorrow again :)
[11:29] <ajmitch_> I think I'll be about 3 point short of 1000 karma now
[11:31] <ajmitch_> maybe over with the last activity
[11:32] <ogra> wow
[11:32] <ogra> i think i'm around 5 :)
[11:33] <ajmitch_> this last week has been busy :)
[11:33] <ogra> yes, i recognized :)
[11:34] <ajmitch_> don't worry
[11:34] <ajmitch_> next week will be at least twice as busy, I'm sure ;)
[11:35] <ajmitch_> and then you can have a weekend off!
[11:35] <ogra> hah, if i still have a job after that ...
[11:35] <ogra> :)
[11:36] <ajmitch_> sure you will
[11:36] <ogra> heh... lets see if i have a working release
[11:36] <ajmitch_> you'd better ;)
[11:37] <ogra> yes...
[11:43] <ajmitch_> it's another useful app that deps only on php4
[11:44] <ajmitch_> ick
[11:44] <ogra> hmm, it should depend php4|5
[11:45] <ajmitch_> he synced it for security without seeing if build-deps were satisfied
[11:46] <ogra> argh
[11:46] <ajmitch_> current source is already built
[11:46] <ajmitch_> s/built/'fixed'/
[11:51] <kendrick> hello :)
[11:52] <kendrick> hi bdoin
[11:55] <bdoin> hi, good to see tuxpaint around ;)
[11:55] <kendrick> ;)
[11:55] <kendrick> working on 0.9.15... slowly.
[11:55] <kendrick> i might make a half-assed release, just to get it out
[11:55] <kendrick> i.e., sans some features i was seriously hoping to get in, like stamp cateogory UI
[11:58] <bdoin> have you seen the stamp category in gcompris ?
[12:00] <kendrick> um... probably ;)
[12:02] <bdoin> there is a scrollbar on the left with a category icon then on the right the small image in a scrollable panel


[09:34] <nigelb> Is lifeless back tomorrow or next monday?
[11:00] <LPCIBot> Project db-devel build #855: FAILURE in 0.28 sec: https://lpci.wedontsleep.org/job/db-devel/855/
[12:15] <Nigel> ouch, build failure in 0.28 sec, that is fast
[15:41] <nigelb> its going to get opened anyway :)
[15:42] <nigelb> (bah, wrong channel)
[16:01] <LPCIBot> Yippie, build fixed!
[16:01] <LPCIBot> Project db-devel build #856: FIXED in 4 hr 41 min: https://lpci.wedontsleep.org/job/db-devel/856/
[19:15] <lifeless> morning
[19:15] <lifeless> nigelb: I am back now
[19:16] <nigelb> lifeless: GOOD Morning!
[19:16] <nigelb> I just wrapped up a db-devel patch
[19:16] <nigelb> I have to run the entire *tests* before I submit an MP?
[19:17] <lifeless> no
[19:17] <lifeless> they *have* to be run before landing ;)
[19:17] <nigelb> Ah. Instructions said so.
[19:17] <lifeless> if you don't run them all then ec2 may find a missing change and you'll need to get reviewed etc again.
[19:17] <nigelb> I can start a test run, but I'm afraid it might take quite a while on my core 2 duo :)
[19:17] <lifeless> how much memory do you have?
[19:18] <nigelb> 2Gigs
[19:18] <lifeless> the process is less likely to get restarted if you've run them all, but I consider that 'must' a 'should' :P
[19:18] <lifeless> you might like looking into the lxc parallel stuff and run 2 test runners with 1/2 the tests each
[19:18] <nigelb> ok, I'll start a test run and head to bed.
[19:19] <nigelb> lifeless: Family doing okay now? :)
[19:20] <lifeless> we're still learning, but the medical stuff seems to have settled down.
[19:20] <nigelb> :)
[19:20] <nigelb> That's good to hear
[19:22] <nigelb> Oh.
[19:23] <nigelb> db-devel test != devel tests.
[19:29] <jelmer> nigelb: are you running oneiric?
[19:29] <nigelb> Nope. Old School! Lucid
[19:32] <jelmer> hah, ok
[19:32] <nigelb> Hrm, one error so far. Looks unrelated. http://paste.ubuntu.com/687111/
[19:33] <jelmer> nigelb: looks like you might be missing a copy of pgbouncer
[19:35] <nigelb> Isn't that a dep?
[19:35] <nigelb> Or rather, shouldn't it be a dep?
[19:42] <nigelb> webapp-authorization.txt is failing as well.
[19:46] <nigelb> woah.*lots* of fail :(
[19:52] <nigelb> ARGH.
[19:52] <nigelb> How often does devel get merged into db-devel?
[19:52] <nigelb> I may have made a *big* mistake :|
[19:52] <lifeless> devel->db-devel - every time devel passes buildbot
[19:53] <nigelb> makeBugTasks() in tests are failing because that field doesn't exit.
[19:53] <nigelb> *exist
[19:53]  * nigelb looks at models
[19:53] <nigelb> GRAR.
[19:53] <nigelb> Yep. Its here.
[19:53] <lifeless> that means the process worked :P - we've just shown that we haven't (yet) removed deps on the field completely.
[19:54] <nigelb> Well, technically, no.
[19:54] <nigelb> I removed these deps the other day.
[19:54] <nigelb> I sense my db-devel is out of date.
[19:56] <nigelb> \o/ Yes. Stabbing myself in the foot++
[20:04] <lifeless> ftw, ftw, ftw
[20:10] <nigelb> On a more positive note, now I know why I should land the changes to not use fields first and then start the db patch.
[20:11] <lifeless> doing teaches well :)
[20:12] <nigelb> Yeah. The DB process is neat. Taught a bit of postgres as well.
[20:19] <nigelb> lifeless: Is there already a bug about JS OOPS or do you want me to file one and assign to myself?
[20:19] <lifeless> I don't know
[20:20] <nigelb> A quick google search doesn't give me anything. But I might be phrasing it wrong.
[20:20] <lifeless> I wonder if we've fixed bug 294656 yet
[20:20] <_mup_> Bug #294656: Every page requests two JavaScript libraries (remove MochiKit) <lp-bugs> <lp-translations> <lp-web> <tech-debt> <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/294656 >
[20:21] <lifeless> bug 741991
[20:21] <_mup_> Bug #741991: launchpad users have to manually report javascript failures <javascript> <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/741991 >
[20:23] <nigelb> lifeless: nope, not fixed yet. Still see it.
[20:24] <nigelb> need to start figuring out where to start.
[20:25] <lifeless> on mochikit or oopses ?
[20:25] <nigelb> oopses
[20:26] <lifeless> make sure you have read https://dev.launchpad.net/ArchitectureGuide/ServicesRequirements
[20:27] <lifeless> if you would like some ahead-of-time design, create a technical LEP (I don't think it needs one)
[20:27] <nigelb> I think you handed me a technical LEP the other day :)
[20:29] <lifeless> then, bring up a microservice for it - involves making a new project - https://dev.launchpad.net/CreatingNewProjects
[20:29] <nigelb> "Don't be overly cute." HA.
[20:29] <lifeless> you may need 2 projects - one for the js, one for the server.
[20:30] <nigelb> So, just start a separate project on Launchpad?
[20:30] <lifeless> that will depend on how you plan to get the js into lp pages
[20:31] <nigelb> I might need some help there, because I'm not sure how to do that.
[20:31] <lifeless> sure
[20:31] <nigelb> I've only touched Launchpad-related JS once.
[20:32] <lifeless> I wouldn't make the project until you've a handle on that then.
[20:32] <lifeless> cause you won't know if you're making 1 or 2.
[20:33] <lifeless> anyhow the microservice needs to be truely self contained, tested, etc.
[20:33] <nigelb> I guess the sensible approach is to just start writing the server-side code in a +junk branch and finish that off.
[20:34] <lifeless> finally to integrate with LP, need to have a test that js failures in LP do reach out to the url with a GET, and that the url is correct
[20:34] <lifeless> nigelb: sure, thats what I did with gpgverifyd
[20:34] <nigelb> cool, so once I get this db patch done, I'll start writing the wsgi app.
[20:35] <lifeless> wallyworld: hi
[20:35] <wallyworld> lifeless: hello. how's parenthood?
[20:35] <lifeless> wallyworld: you seem to be the closest working js person :)
[20:35] <lifeless> wallyworld: *intense* :)
[20:35] <wallyworld> hah, you must be desperate :-)
[20:36] <wallyworld> how can i help?
[20:36] <lifeless> wallyworld: nigelb is planning on working on bug 741991.
[20:36] <_mup_> Bug #741991: launchpad users have to manually report javascript failures <javascript> <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/741991 >
[20:36]  * wallyworld looks
[20:36] <lifeless> wallyworld: architecturally we're fine - but there is a pragmatic question around the (small) js needed.
[20:36] <lifeless> wallyworld: big picture this is a microservice that translates crafted GET requests into oops reports.
[20:37] <lifeless> wallyworld: with a couple of small bits of JS to turn errors in the page into GET requests to the url that that service is running on.
[20:38] <lifeless> wallyworld: some of that js is about encoding stuff to the service. The rest is about how to trap errors - baseline js, and then after yui loads a yui last resort handler.
[20:39] <lifeless> wallyworld: so the question is, how should we make that js available to LP pages?. The microservice URL can be mapped into our namespace (e.g. at <root>/+jsoops)
[20:39] <m4n1sh> is curtis hovey around?
[20:39] <m4n1sh> dont know his nick
[20:39] <nigelb> m4n1sh: its sinzui and he's around US timings I believe.
[20:39] <lifeless> he is not. It is sinzui.
[20:39] <m4n1sh> lifeless: nigelb  thanks
[20:39] <nigelb> UTC-0400 to be more precise.
[20:40] <wallyworld> lifeless: we could hook something in using base-layout-macros.pt. i'm not 100% familair with yui's error hooks though
[20:40] <m4n1sh> wanted some help on lp-release-manager-tools
[20:41] <lifeless> wallyworld: I kindof meant - do we copy the js in (to avoid another page load), or do we have a combo loader that can talk across projects, or do we inline the code (and reference it via an egg or something?)
[20:41] <lifeless> wallyworld: this doesn't need to be sorted $now, just when nigelb is getting close to done on the service.
[20:42] <nigelb> (I'm just planning on starting the service this week)
[20:43] <wallyworld> lifeless: first thought is that if the code is small which i expect it will be it would be nice to copy it in to avoid another page load, hence the base-layout-macro suggestion
[20:44] <lifeless> inlining it but not having it in the LP tree itself would also avoid the page load
[20:44] <lifeless> and perhaps be easier to maintain (can't forget to do something you don't need to do)
[20:45] <wallyworld> yes. i didn't account for the fact that you want to have this as generic code outside of the lp tree?
[20:45] <lifeless> thats right
[20:45] <lifeless> if we do this well, u1, landscape, sso and perhaps others can use it.
[20:46] <nigelb> Hrm, I hadn't thought that far.
[20:46] <wallyworld> we could do what we do for yui - pack it with our stuff into a launchpad.js
[20:46] <wallyworld> yui is now a tarball which is versioned using buildout
[20:46] <lifeless> yeah
[20:46] <lifeless> ok
[20:47] <lifeless> so this microservice can be released as a tarball
[20:47] <lifeless> and we can unpack the tarball and yank out the js
[20:47] <wallyworld> i added a buildout recipe for yui
[20:47] <wallyworld> yes
[20:47] <lifeless> great
[20:47] <lifeless> nigelb: I think one project
[20:48] <wallyworld> and pack the js into launchpad.js and include it inline where required
[20:49] <wallyworld> it will be nice to have this client error reporting functionality
[20:49] <nigelb> lifeless: excellent, okay.
[20:49] <lifeless> nigelb: how does js-oopsd grab you as a project name ?
[20:50] <nigelb> Not cute, fits the bill :)
[20:50] <lifeless> would you like me to set it up ?
[20:51] <nigelb> Yes, please. I'm guessing a lot of it need Canonical powers
[20:51] <lifeless> it shouldn't
[20:51] <lifeless> but I have it memorised :P
[20:51] <nigelb> HA
[20:54] <nigelb> You used http://pypi.python.org/pypi/web for gpgverifyd?
[20:55] <lifeless> I did. I used even less for lp:gpgfixtures
[20:56] <lifeless> erm python-gpgfixtures. Something.
[20:56] <nigelb> Yeah, I saw.
[20:56] <nigelb> But it seems to be alpha.
[20:56] <lifeless> its not integrated to LP yet, but neither is gpgverifyd
[20:56] <lifeless> I am planning on dropping web.py from gpgverifyd for just plain ol wsgi
[20:57] <lifeless> or wsgi + paste
[20:57] <nigelb> I'm looking at paste as wel.
[20:57] <nigelb> It seems simple enough but too much work.
[20:57] <lifeless> paste is now webob
[20:57] <nigelb> *not too
[20:58] <lifeless> but the bits I needed from paste for the gpg keyserver were -tiny-
[20:58] <nigelb> Gah, I wish documentation was updated on the wsgi website.
[20:58] <lifeless> its 99% plain wsgi
[20:58] <lifeless> there is an updated PEP
[20:58] <nigelb> 3333?
[20:59] <lifeless> yes
[21:01] <lifeless> ok
[21:01] <lifeless> js-oopsd is all ready to go except for trunk having *content*
[21:01] <lifeless> you can branch it though
[21:01] <nigelb> \o/
[21:02] <lifeless> What I've been doing for things like python-oops is copying everything but .bzr in from the project before and then tweaking
[21:02] <lifeless> checking with 'bzr diff' that I've caught every occurence I need to worry about :)
[21:06] <nigelb> lifeless: Ah, the wsgiref.simple_server is the plain ol wsgi way?
[21:06] <lifeless> yes
[21:06] <nigelb> Now, I'm less confused. :)
[21:06] <lifeless> wsgiref is in the standard library
[21:07] <nigelb> I was thinking you wanted me to first implement a library based on the PEP and then use it.
[21:07] <nigelb> And I kept wondering what I got myself into :P
[21:07] <lifeless> -lol-
[21:11] <nigelb> lifeless: This will be a stateless server right? Acting only on the parameters in GET.
[21:11] <lifeless> yes
[21:11] <lifeless> and the options passed to the command line :)
[21:11] <nigelb> Oh.
[21:12] <lifeless> (like --oops-dir and --oops-prefix)
[21:12] <nigelb> What kind of options? Oh wait. Let me write iteration 1 tomorrow.
[21:12] <nigelb> ah, right. those.
[21:12] <lifeless> the gpgverifyd __main__ should show you how to configure that up [ except you will need *two* prefixes ]
[21:12] <lifeless> one prefix for failures in this wsgi app itself
[21:13] <nigelb> failures?
[21:13] <lifeless> one prefix to use for failures generated from js pages
[21:13] <lifeless> unexpected exceptions :)
[21:13] <nigelb> Ah, that prefix.
[21:15] <nigelb> Woah, 3 am. *heads to sleep*
[21:39] <ajmitch> so I finally got LP to run again on my laptop, it was of course a simple PEBKAC...
[21:40] <ajmitch> the appserver can't talk to the openid provider when http_proxy/https_proxy is set
[22:06] <lifeless> ajmitch: :P
[22:07] <ajmitch> lifeless: the exception wasn't being displayed or apparantly logged somewhere, so it took a little while to find
[22:07] <ajmitch> I didn't expect that it would be looking at proxy settings
[22:08] <lifeless> ajmitch: not logged? thats surprising.
[22:08] <lifeless> what were the symptoms you had ?
[22:08] <ajmitch> an error page about OpenID provider discovery
[22:08] <lifeless> did it have an oops id ?
[22:09] <ajmitch> not that I recall, let me start it again & try
[22:11] <ajmitch> no OOPS, just "OpenID Provider Is Unavailable at This Time"
[22:12] <lifeless> ajmitch: so, in a multi provider world, thats fairly reasonable. However we're stil single provider, and if/when we go multiple we'll still want to take action if Ubuntu SSO is having issues.
[22:13] <lifeless> ajmitch: -> file a bug ('failure to talk to do provider discovery on the Ubuntu SSO does not OOPS')
[22:14] <ajmitch> from what I can see, it just uses lib/lp/app/templates/launchpad-discoveryfailure.pt
[22:14] <ajmitch> at least I can start looking at other stuff now instead of just being blocked on login :)
[22:16] <lifeless> indeed.
[22:16] <lifeless> you'll filed that bug ?
[22:16] <ajmitch> in the process of doing so
[22:18] <ajmitch> bug 847823
[22:18] <lifeless> thanks!
[22:18] <ajmitch> s/823/423/
[22:25] <lifeless> mwhudson: 120 lines. Really?
[22:25] <lifeless> mwhudson: as in, can't hatchet it down to size ?
[22:25] <mwhudson> lifeless: as in, this was presented to me as the way to do the query using our current data model
[22:25] <lifeless> ><
[22:26] <mwhudson> which we kinda knew was wrong, but this is a new illustration :)
[22:26] <lifeless> pgsql will probably have a hernia optimising it
[22:26] <lifeless> and degrade to to a genetic optimiser
[22:26] <mwhudson> really we should be using a kv store for this (i suspect)
[22:26] <lifeless> what thing?
[22:27] <mwhudson> http://validation.linaro.org/lava-server/dashboard/reports/kernel-ci-data/
[22:28] <lifeless> wow
[22:28] <lifeless> I don't see how you can get to 120 lines for that :)
[22:29] <mwhudson> well, using django's contenttypes thingy is part of it
[22:29] <mwhudson> (and that wasn't my fault)
[22:30] <lifeless> thats a horrible name in a web app
[22:30] <lifeless> truely inspired
[22:31] <lifeless> you'd have to search quite hard to find something more ambiguous with a different default association
[22:31] <mwhudson> the horror does not stop with the name
[22:37] <lifeless> did you mean 120 lines of python that generates sql, or 120 lines in the resulting sql ?
[22:39] <mwhudson> i mean 120 lines of hand written sql
[22:41] <lifeless> wow
[22:41] <lifeless> how does that related to the contenttypes thingy?
[22:43] <jelmer> hey lifeless, welcome back
[22:44] <lifeless> thanks
[22:50] <lifeless> flacoste: horrible name, but http://pypi.python.org/pypi/RunningCalcs/0.1 - online algorithms; might be able to simplify the PPR using this