[00:58] <bluesabre> OvenWerks: do you have a suggestion for better functionality?
[00:58] <bluesabre> ochosi ^ see OvenWerks' note
[01:20] <skellat> I'm trying to improve the bug filed by Noskcaj as LP Bug #1228731 but can't remember what is the second bug that will be fixed if his sync happens
[01:20] <skellat> Still need to remove sponsors as we're at the point that release team has to approve
[01:21] <Unit193> Wouldn't you want to wait to see if 4.10.1 is released or what we're doing there?
[01:23] <skellat> I'm not passing on his bug either way
[01:23] <skellat> I'm just trying to clean it up
[01:24] <skellat> I'm nervous that he wants to sync something that just hit Sid a few hours ago though
[01:25] <skellat> Noskcaj gets whacked in the Patch Pilot reports for incomplete request bugs so I'm trying to figure out what the missing bits are.  Whether or not this is advisable I leave to micahg & mr_pouit.
[01:42] <Noskcaj> skellat, It fixes the "xfhelp4 is missing" bug and bug 1198746
[01:42] <Noskcaj> I'm going to wait for on of the two devs to be around before i look a squeeze of xfwm4
[01:42] <Noskcaj> I'm not quite sure why adding an extra space in the bug was necessary though
[01:43] <skellat> Noskcaj: Okay, go back to LP Bug #1228731 and unsubscribe sponsors as it isn't time for them to be involved.  This goes to release team to sign off on.
[01:44] <skellat> There we go.
[01:44] <Noskcaj> I didn't thing this needed an FFe since it's bugfix only
[01:44] <skellat> We're at the point where copying things needs Release Team permission
[01:45] <Noskcaj> oops
[01:45] <skellat> Yeah, you're kinda cutting it close with this.
[01:45] <skellat> I just want to make sure you have it set up with the data others will need to review.
[01:46]  * smartboyhw didn't realize that even copying things need Release Team permission-.-
[01:46] <smartboyhw> (I mean right now)
[01:46] <smartboyhw> Isn't Beta 2 Freeze on Monday?
[01:46] <Noskcaj> yep
[01:46] <Noskcaj> Which i'll be away for ;(
[01:46] <smartboyhw> Noskcaj, ouch
[01:46] <skellat> It being the weekend, treat it as not being handled until Monday
[01:47] <skellat> You may well be told either "No" or "Wait and do an SRU after release"
[01:47] <Noskcaj> ok
[01:48] <skellat> As to squeeze, we already killed it as it depended upon HAL.  Does the Debian version still depend upon HAL?  Upstream also was fine with us killing it in our repository at this point.
[01:51] <skellat> Never mind, I just looked.  It depends on libthunar-vfs which is the HAL dependency which was killed in the repository and is not coming back.  Seeking a sync on squeeze would be a bad thing at this point.  See LP Bug #1221254.
[01:55] <Noskcaj> skellat, yeah, i'd forgot that till about 5 minutes ago
[01:55] <skellat> Noskcaj: It happens.  Don't worry about it.
[01:55] <Noskcaj> Hopefully the new squeeze will be out in time for 14.04
[01:55] <skellat> It'll need a bit of re-writing to shift to using gvfs instead of the old HAL stuff
[01:57] <Noskcaj> Do you think it's worth merging xfwm? It's a doc fix is the only part that really matters
[01:58] <skellat> Changelog link?
[01:59] <skellat> Wait.
[01:59] <skellat> A doc fix is the only part that matters?
[01:59] <skellat> That freeze was Thursday.
[01:59] <skellat> We're done with docs for the Saucy Salamander cycle and really shouldn't be touching them again.
[02:01] <skellat> So if that's the only thing in the merge I wouldn't worry about it
[02:01] <skellat> We're at the point in the cycle of squashing bugs and polishing things to make a fabulous release
[02:12] <skellat> :-) I enjoy being wrong and being corrected by Scott Kitterman
[02:12] <bluesabre> :D
[02:12] <bluesabre> skellat wrong? where!? :D
[02:13]  * smartboyhw always gets corrected by ScottKL
[02:13] <smartboyhw> *ScottK
[02:16] <Noskcaj> bluesabre, the sync bug where he just wasted time ;)
[02:16] <Noskcaj> skellat, http://ftp-master.metadata.debian.org/changelogs/main/x/xfwm4/unstable_changelog
[02:17] <Noskcaj> It actually allows the xfwm4 online docs to work
[02:17] <bluesabre> ah
[02:17] <skellat> Does it close an outstanding bug on LP anywhere?
[02:18] <bluesabre> I reported one at some point long long ago
[02:18] <bluesabre> (probably still open)
[02:19] <bluesabre> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-screenshooter/+bug/1054407
[02:19] <bluesabre> related to that?
[02:19] <skellat> bluesabre: No, that's the other one we were talking about.  Now we're looking at Noskcaj's proposed xfwm4 merge.
[02:19] <bluesabre> ah, ok
[02:20] <bluesabre> I'll stop butting in :)
[02:20] <Unit193> bluesabre: Butt it's so fun! :P
[02:20] <Noskcaj> lol
[02:20] <bluesabre> :D
[02:20] <Noskcaj> the xfwm bug is http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=714026
[03:17] <OvenWerks> bluesabre: Sorry, been gone for a while. I think, if possible draw the backgrounds in reverse oder
[03:18] <OvenWerks> *order
[03:18] <OvenWerks> Draw screen 1 first then screen 2
[03:22] <OvenWerks> It is sort of a funny thing, because it only probably matters to most people the first time they login after which they put the screens side by side.... Just buggy systems Like the Intel Atom GPU seem to have the problem all the time. This may be the desktop or xfwm4 that does this anyway.
[03:24] <OvenWerks> Ga, I must be half asleep. Two lines up should be screen 1 then screen 0
[03:32] <OvenWerks> Not something to worry about for 13.10 though
[03:55] <bluesabre> OvenWerks, thanks for reporting it, I'll look into possibly doing that
[03:56] <bluesabre> Noskcaj: I've fixed executable-not-elf-or-script for whenever I do the next catfish release.  Thanks for the tip :)
[03:56] <Noskcaj> yay
[03:57] <Noskcaj> Why do you have the makefile instead of setup.py?
[04:02] <OvenWerks> bluesabre: I have such a broken gpu for testing :P
[07:37] <ochosi> brainwash: yes, it's only visually broken and i have the patch almost ready here locally (for Greybird)
[09:20] <knome> morning elfy
[09:22] <knome> channel: which of you are able to do testing for beta 2?
[09:23] <Noskcaj> knome, not me, sorry. My family is going on holidays
[09:24] <knome> Noskcaj, okay, have fun
[09:24] <Noskcaj> knome, I won't. Can you have a look at bug 1228731 and the new debian version of xfwm4?
[09:26] <knome> that bug seems to be fine (just find an uploader now)
[09:26] <knome> and what about xfwm4?
[09:27] <Noskcaj> There's been a release that fixes http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=714026
[09:27] <knome> i don't know if we want to pull in new versions at this point if they aren't going to fix release-critical bugs because they are prone to new bugs
[09:27] <Noskcaj> both of these are bugless and fix things that it would be bad to release with
[09:27] <Noskcaj> *new bug-less
[09:28] <knome> well you can't promise that, nobod can
[09:29] <elfy> knome: morning and I'll be doing some testing
[09:30] <knome> i'm fine with both, if you take care of getting them uploaded and responsibility for looking after fixes *if* they break something
[09:30] <knome> Noskcaj, ^
[09:30] <knome> elfy, heh, i expected you to ;)
[09:31] <elfy> :)
[09:31] <Noskcaj> knome, of course. I'll still wait for micahg or mr_pouit to check xfwm4
[09:31] <knome> Noskcaj, lionel probably isn't around to do that, and micah will be awfully busy anyway, so it might not happen, at least before b2
[09:39] <knome> i'm off for now. see you
[09:41] <Noskcaj> bye
[10:21] <elfy> ochosi: you seen the more or less unreadable 'rulers' in abiword ?
[10:24] <brainwash> elfy: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/abiword/+bug/1031137
[10:25] <brainwash> and this strange black border, or is it supposed to be black?
[10:28] <brainwash> looks wrong to me, but I never really use abiword, just randomly opened it yesterday (test installation)
[10:29] <Noskcaj> i just opened abiword, that's new and very ugly
[10:58] <elfy> brainwash: yea - saw that bug and we were talking about it yesterday - then I wandered off into real life and forgot about it :)
[12:27] <brainwash> elfy: xubuntu should move to libreoffice (maybe only pick writer and calc)
[13:03] <elfy> brainwash: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2012-November/008541.html
[13:04] <elfy> pretty sure it's raised it's head more recently on the m/l too
[13:04] <elfy> personally I use LO - but I see no reason to move to it - if I want to use it I can
[13:05] <elfy> I use gedit more often than mousepad
[13:05] <elfy> I only use gmusicbrowser to test during cycle
[13:05] <elfy> I never use gigolo
[13:06] <elfy> I never use catfish
[13:06] <elfy> :)
[13:34] <brainwash> elfy: so the major concern was, that it will break the 700mb cd format limit
[13:35] <brainwash> besides that, LO was (is?) considered to be bloated
[13:35] <bluesabre> the other part is that LO doesn't actually use gtk
[13:36] <bluesabre> but with how bad abiword is, I will happily support a push for LO
[13:36] <brainwash> neither does firefox, or?
[13:36] <bluesabre> true
[13:37] <bluesabre> yeah, we don't have great complaints against it other than its size
[13:37] <bluesabre> which we don't care about as much either anymore
[13:37] <brainwash> and it does work without having java installed, it's optional
[13:39] <bluesabre> gotta go, bbl
[13:39] <brainwash> cya
[13:51] <elfy> brainwash: not sure what the outcome was/has been since tbh
[13:51] <brainwash> elfy: plenty of time to reconsider this change for 14.04 :)
[13:53] <elfy> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-users/2013-June/005589.html
[13:53] <elfy> I knew I'd seen it all recently
[13:55] <brainwash> oh, it really is a never ending story
[13:55] <elfy> yep
[13:58] <elfy> unfortunately the only arguments I've seen for moving to it are
[13:58] <elfy> 1 - I use it
[13:59] <elfy> 2 - we've got more space
[13:59] <elfy> neither of which are good reasons imho
[14:02] <brainwash> 3 - it's LO
[14:02] <elfy> well I don't count that as an argument :)
[14:06] <brainwash> so back to the black border / almost invisible ruler issue
[14:07] <elfy> which I assume is theme based issue
[14:07] <brainwash> can you check different themes?
[14:07] <elfy> I did check with the default installed themes - not good in any of the dark ones
[14:09] <brainwash> this is almost a show-stopper :/
[14:11] <elfy> can read it in high contrast and raleigh/ can justjust about see it in bluebird,greybird andorion, can;t see it in numix
[14:11] <elfy> whoops
[14:12] <elfy> not sure what that was about
[14:14] <brainwash> do you think, that this should be fixed before final release? currently it looks like nobody really cares about this visual glitch
[14:15] <elfy> I do - but I can't fix it
[14:15] <elfy> and it's sunday afternoon - others might too - but they might be away :)
[14:16] <brainwash> but maybe it's not fixable, due to some gtk shenanigans in abiword
[14:16] <brainwash> yea true
[14:16] <elfy> maybe so - I can't answer that question - hence the comment to simon earlier
[14:17] <elfy> I'd assume bluesabre knows if it is or isn't
[14:19] <brainwash> should we add details about the ruler issue to the existing bug report? maybe even add shimmer-themes to the list of affected packages
[14:20] <brainwash> bug 1031137
[14:20] <elfy> I'd not add shimmer-themes without double checking
[14:21] <elfy> I'll make a note on the bug report for the moment
[14:21] <brainwash> ok, thanks
[14:28] <brainwash> http://bugzilla.abisource.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13262
[14:30] <elfy> yep
[14:30] <elfy> thanks - no idea how to tie the lp bug with that
[14:31] <elfy> if that's been resolved/fixed why is it still in the abiword version we're using
[14:35] <elfy> brainwash: I agree that releasing this as it is is not very good
[14:36] <brainwash> no sure, why it's still there
[14:37] <brainwash> maybe some theme tweaks are required
[17:00] <ochosi> brainwash, elfy: i have once before spent lotsa time to debug that silly abiword issue (yes, it's a long-standing issue), i tried to work with upstream to get it resolved
[17:00] <ochosi> but it's been a long time and i'm not sure it was ever resolved
[17:00] <ochosi> anyway, i can't really fix it in the theme i guess
[17:01] <ochosi> and at this point i'm not feeling like spending lotsa time to look into this issue again
[17:01] <elfy> ok thanks ochosi
[17:01] <elfy> I sort of guessed it had been looked at previously but couldn't find ref to it
[17:04] <ochosi> i can dig around tomorrow
[17:09] <brainwash> what a bummer :/
[17:11] <Unit193> elfy: Yeah, those aren't good reasons.  I'd think abiword breaking all the time and LO being much more compatible would be though. ;)
[17:15] <ochosi> we can have that discussion again for 14.04
[17:16] <ochosi> but someone should sum up the diffs in an app-comparison in a wiki page
[17:16] <Unit193> Do we have to? :P
[17:16] <ochosi> volunteers..?
[17:16] <ochosi> hehe, yeah, it would be good to take an informed decision
[17:16] <ochosi> otherwise it might end up very subjectively
[17:17] <Unit193> That's the main issue with the music manager. :P
[17:18] <elfy> refusing to get drawn into that one ...
[17:19] <ochosi> Unit193: huhu, write an app comparison and let's have a discussion :>
[17:19] <Unit193> I'm with you, I'll do whatever I want, and others can do what they want.  I'm not sane anyway, so there's always that.
[17:23] <elfy> ochosi: I agree with that
[17:23] <Unit193> find, grep, and nvlc or mocp being one, right? :P
[17:27] <Unit193> ochosi: Actually, what'd make sense is if the users of the applications write up the section for their favorite player, that way you get a bias that should about even out.
[17:28] <elfy> I think we're talking about abiword/LO not music players :)
[17:28] <brainwash> speaking of moc(p) it's not usable in saucy due to a seg fault in librcc
[17:30] <Unit193> Erm, crap.
[17:32] <brainwash> maybe a survey could help to determine, if the xubuntu users prefer LO over abiword/gnumeric
[17:32] <Unit193> popcon likes LO better.
[17:33] <Unit193> ( http://paste.openstack.org/show/29UMKCNaEqIaKeQIOLER )
[17:36] <Unit193> brainwash: You know the bug report?
[17:37] <elfy> Unit193: but is popcon ignoring other flavour installs of LO
[17:38] <Unit193> Of course not.
[17:38] <elfy> then it's meaningless
[17:38] <Unit193> For the most part, yeppers.
[17:39] <elfy> I'd say we need a comparison and perhaps something for people to yay/nay
[17:39] <elfy> or have it at a meeting for people to yay/nay or ...
[17:40] <Unit193> LP poll? :P
[17:42] <elfy> well - as I tend to leave abiword/gnumeric installed and install writer and calc - I'd be +0 whichever we did
[17:42] <elfy> I think brainwash could do the comparison :)
[17:43] <Unit193> I purge 'em, if I'm not using them why have them?
[17:44] <elfy> well ... as they are only actually in a partition for about 4 months why bother doing anything with them
[18:07] <knome> tbh, i don't think libreoffice is a real option for xubuntu
[18:09] <elfy> mmm - well I'm not sure abiword is either when you can't see the tab ruler in most of the defualt themes
[18:09] <Unit193> knome: I'm not saying I disagree, but why do you think that?
[18:11] <knome> elfy, sure, but that's a different issue altogether
[18:11] <elfy> :)
[18:12] <knome> libreoffice is a totally different beast
[18:13] <elfy> yep - I understand that
[18:14] <knome> i would personally be fine with even lighter office apps than abiword and gnumeric
[18:14] <elfy> all I've been saying really is that people should set out the pros/cons somewhere
[18:14] <knome> or, abiword mostly; i think gnumeric is fine in what it does
[18:14] <knome> abiword is not exactly like wordpad, which is around the level i'd be happy with
[18:14] <elfy> personally I'd be fine with none because I install calc and writer :)
[18:15] <knome> right, exactly
[18:15] <knome> when i need office apps, i need pretty specific stuff
[18:15] <knome> but i don't think i'm the normal user
[18:15] <knome> or the average, to that matter
[18:16] <knome> i think many need word processing here and there, and for that, abiword or something even lighter would work well
[18:16] <Unit193> knome: calligrawords or wordgrinder!
[18:16] <knome> as long as they are able to type and they can print the stuff out of the machine
[18:16] <knome> Unit193, well i'd like a typesetting set, so if you know where to get one cheaply... ;)
[18:17] <knome> i'm just saying that most people who say "abiword is not good/enough" are people who need word processing often
[18:17] <knome> and that's a completely valid point from their POV
[18:17] <knome> but then, most of our users probably don't (i don't mind if i'm proven wrong)
[18:17] <knome> and for them abiword is more than good
[18:18] <Unit193> Might want to wait for early T to talk about it?  I'd think the worst part isn't features, but "Why can't my friend open this?" or "Why can't I open this on another computer."
[18:19] <elfy> yep
[18:20] <knome> Unit193, that would be a better time to discuss it
[18:21] <knome> then again, not sure we want to make such a drastic move for an LTS, so the *ideal* time is after 14.04
[18:21] <knome> but it naturally won't hurt to discuss it earlier
[18:21] <elfy> I see what you did there :p
[18:21] <knome> i just hope it doesn't go the same route as before
[18:21] <knome> somebody says LO is awesome, abiword is crap
[18:21] <knome> 10 people say "yeah i use LO too"
[18:21] <knome> discussion dead.
[18:22] <elfy> insist there's something to discuss against perhaps
[18:23] <knome> one of the problems is that people do not see that we are selecting a default set of applications, not the set of applications the vocal minority uses
[18:23] <knome> if we installed what i do, you'd get for example inkscape, which is useless for most
[18:23] <elfy> I know
[18:24] <elfy> we'd not have gmb if I chose
[18:24] <knome> ;)
[18:24] <elfy> it goes on and on
[18:24] <knome> yep
[18:24] <knome> with office stuff...
[18:25] <knome> i'm pretty sure must of us agree on the fact that libreoffice writer is better than abiword, if you want a full-fledged word processor
[18:25] <knome> tbh, there's not much agreeing because that comparison is a fact
[18:25] <elfy> lol
[18:25] <knome> however, many people seem to think that's a valid argument for including LO writer (and with that more of LO)
[18:26] <Unit193> Well, I'd personally like to drop USC out of depends for xubuntu-desktop and put it as recommends, like all the other non-required applications...
[18:26] <knome> which is where i disagree...
[18:26] <knome> Unit193, we should set up xubuntu-core
[18:26] <knome> Unit193, wouldn't that ultimately fix that issue?
[18:26] <knome> Unit193, but yeah, what you say is quite valid as well, since it's not only about the default set of apps installed
[18:26] <Unit193> http://unit193.tk/xubuntu.core  - http://unit193.tk/xubuntu.desktop and I don't think so.
[18:28] <knome> Unit193, looked again at .core, and it still looks sane
[18:28] <knome> Unit193, we really should work on this for T
[18:28] <Unit193> knome: Any questions/feedback?
[18:29] <Unit193> knome: Sounds good to me as well.  May have to put in a basic browser (elinks, w3m) to fill the requirement of www-browser. :/
[18:29] <knome> midori maybe?
[18:29] <knome> i know, kind of diverging, but...
[18:30] <Unit193> I know what I'd like, but heh.  That'd pull in webkit, additionally?
[18:31] <knome> Unit193, would you be fine with writing some brief argumentation for the logic of those choices generally in a wikipage, then also list the packages that should be recommends instead of depends?
[18:31] <knome> Unit193, i'm pretty sure skellat is interested in helping with this as well
[18:32] <Unit193> Eh, wiki. :/
[18:32] <knome> Unit193, ultimately, we should be able to turn that spec wikipage into work items on the tracker for T and implement them
[18:32] <knome> i know, but that's where we're building up on our specs...
[18:33] <knome> if you want, i won't stop you from working on it in a pad or so, and then just dumping it to a wiki when you think it's ready.
[18:33] <Unit193> Oh, also http://unit193.tk/lubuntu.core is there too, something to compare it to (which it doesn't really.)
[18:33] <knome> heh
[18:33] <knome> have other flavors pretty much leeched our artwork stuff for their own use?
[18:34] <knome> (not a problem, just interesting to see, because that implies other stuff is pretty... lousy)
[18:35] <Unit193> Hmm?
[18:35] <Unit193> They use the weird box thing.
[18:35] <knome> lightdm-gtk-greeter
[18:35] <knome> plymouth-theme-lubuntu-logo
[18:36] <knome> sounds awfully familiar
[18:36] <Unit193> Greeter, yeah.
[18:36] <knome> or is it just the names
[18:36] <knome> :P
[18:36] <knome> think xubuntu-docs should be depends of xubuntu-desktop
[18:37] <Unit193> I'd be fine with that, but not sure -core should mirror that?
[18:37] <knome> most probably not
[18:38] <knome> recommends at most.
[18:39]  * skellat notes that it is Sunday when he has two podcasts to produce and is behind on getting one scripted at the moment
[18:39] <knome> wondering if that means -core should ship another menu file, or something
[18:39] <knome> skellat, no problem, we didn't sign you up anything for today
[18:40] <knome> for anything?
[18:40] <knome> yeah, i'm a bit tired
[18:41] <elfy> it's better to miss words - keeps us on our toes :)
[18:41] <knome> heh
[18:41] <knome> didn't miss, i just aligned them weirdly :P
[18:42] <knome> ...i think
[18:42] <elfy> two for's would have worked :)
[18:42] <knome> i should start typing finnish
[18:42] <knome> THAT'D keep you on your toes
[18:42] <elfy> that'll work ...
[18:42] <Unit193> OK, so my goal is basically getting everything to a workable state without much additional effort, thus networkmanager would be in there, but since things like browsers change per person...  Though that means things like lightdm could drop to recommends, since there's other options.
[18:42] <knome> Unit193, for -core or -desktop?
[18:42] <Unit193> Core, of course.
[18:43] <knome> mh
[18:43] <Unit193> Different goal?
[18:43] <knome> -core not having any login manager in depends? eh... :)
[18:43] <knome> that sounds fair, but i'm wondering if it's sane to drop kind of essential GUI stuff out
[18:43] <Unit193> It's very workable, and since recommends are on by default you'd still get it.
[18:43] <knome> i mean, it's still xubuntu-core, not pure-xfce
[18:44] <knome> unless you install with mini, then with --no-install-recommends
[18:44] <knome> which is obviously and edge case, and you should know what you are doing, but...
[18:44] <knome> it's still xubuntu
[18:44] <knome> i suppose one thing that should define the xubuntu core package is the xubuntu looks
[18:44] <Unit193> Exactly.  I'd be fine with that staying as a dep, though.
[18:44] <knome> and lightdm is an integral part of that
[18:45] <Unit193> Yep, and that's why I'd leave artwork in there.
[18:45] <knome> i don't think firefox is an essential part of the xubuntu identity, for example
[18:45] <knome> (of course!)
[18:46] <Unit193> I'd hope not, even if I like it. :P
[18:46] <knome> maybe there should only be a browser in recommends for core
[18:46] <knome> that could be like midori
[18:46] <knome> or something else really light, but possibly still GUI
[18:47] <knome> the point is, users who do not know anything about building up a sane system will use -core, and if we don't hold their hands in some way, they wil get an awfully bad experience and quit.
[18:47] <knome> or mess up their systems
[18:47] <bluesabre> midori is actually an xfce project, right?
[18:47] <knome> and say xubuntu sucks becuase it broke their system
[18:47] <knome> bluesabre, yup
[18:48] <Unit193> knome: I understand that, and agree with most, but don't think it should be users that don't know what they're doing. :P
[18:48] <Unit193> Still waiting on http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=695874 or whatever the ITP is. :/
[18:48] <knome> Unit193, you're saying we shouldn't know what we're doing? ;)
[18:48] <Unit193> knome: I never do.
[18:49] <knome> wondering if the option to install -core should only be in debian-installer, not ubiquity.
[18:49] <knome> just wondering.
[18:49] <knome> maybe that'd keep out most of the "i know it all" -newbies
[18:50] <Unit193> knome: It'll be a mini.iso+tasksel/apt-get etc.
[18:50] <knome> Unit193, at some point there was discussion going on if that should be an option in ubiquitu
[18:51] <knome> *ubiquity
[18:51] <Unit193> Well, that wouldn't be all bad.
[18:51] <knome> that would make it accessible, and when i say "it", i mean "-core with recommends"
[18:51] <Unit193> skellat: You had a chance to check the WIP seed? :P
[18:51] <Unit193> Yep.
[18:51] <knome> but that'd mean we would have to make sure there is enough GUI stuff for the newbie to work it out.
[18:52] <Unit193> Eh, I'd have to resign if you want USC in it. :P
[18:52] <knome> heh
[18:52] <knome> no, i'm not saying that.
[18:52] <Unit193> (And I'm kidding.)
[18:52] <knome> in -core, i'd say synaptic is fine.
[18:52] <knome> (if it's supported at all)
[18:52] <knome> and tbh, we probably should look at adding synaptic in the seed again if it's still supported.
[18:52] <Unit193> Well, I'm not the most fine with that, but don't object strongly. :)
[18:53] <knome> at least as a recommend, so basically to the default installation
[18:53] <Unit193> -desktop I'd like that idea, but that's just another preference.
[18:53] <knome> that wouldn't mean we could drop USC... unfortunately
[18:53] <knome> so maybe that'd be a bad idea
[18:54] <knome> people who want synaptic can install it anyway
[18:54] <Unit193> That was the general idea, yes.
[18:54] <knome> and many have just learned to use apt-get anywa
[18:54] <knome> *anyway
[18:54] <Unit193> knome: Mica doesn't want to drop USC unless you get another paid option.
[18:54] <knome> either literally learned or changing habits
[18:54] <knome> paid?
[18:55] <Unit193> (I use synaptic just to check origins.)  Things you buy from Canonical, or at least I think that's the biggest thing (behind maintainer maybe) LSC.
[18:55] <knome> aha
[18:56] <knome> yeah, while i don't need that stuff myself, i kind of agree
[18:58] <Unit193> OK, so should I go through the reasoning here now? :P
[18:58] <knome> i need to go for an hour in 5, but if you want to... as long as it's on a wikipage sometime before next year :P
[19:00] <knome> ok, i'm off, see you in an hour or so
[19:34] <Unit193> knome: OK, I have something basic, but it may not be something anyone can understand. :P
[19:35]  * elfy is more likely to understand something basic :p
[19:35] <Unit193> Not like this you aren't: http://piratepad.net/LHmJgCBW6V
[19:38] <elfy> yes I can :)
[19:38] <Unit193> Wooo!  Awesome.
[19:38] <elfy> update-manager - do people use this?  I'd assume someone using this to install a basic kit is going to know what apt-get upgrade does ;)
[19:39] <Unit193> Yeah, I know I never need it, and it's been the cause of some problems in #x before.  I'm in favor of dropping.  Thanks for the feedback!
[19:41] <elfy> you want people to make notes on the pad?
[19:43] <Unit193> Didn't think about it, just my way of avoiding the wiki for now.  Might be a good idea, but I did just comment out update-manager. :)
[19:44] <elfy> well I'd leave it on there - just leave disparaging comments :p
[19:48] <Unit193> Think I did that for half the stuff anyway. :P
[19:49] <elfy> :)
[19:52] <brainwash> drop whoopsie?! :/
[19:54] <Unit193> As part of a -core metapackage, not -desktop.
[19:55] <brainwash> yea, I understand
[19:55] <Unit193> And not been done.
[19:55] <brainwash> I removed most of those packages anyway
[19:58] <Unit193> Hrm, an idea was to add synaptic to recommends, but that may be more of a preference thing.
[19:58] <brainwash> Thunar depends on desktop-file-utils
[20:00] <elfy> well I always add synaptic :)
[20:01] <ali1234> software-properties-gtk is the only gui way to install proprietary drivers - it's pretty important
[20:01] <Unit193> Yep.
[20:01] <Unit193> brainwash: Yes, so having it listed is somewhat double tasking.
[20:02] <Unit193> Well, you can install drivers other ways...
[20:02] <ali1234> yeah, by going to command line and running jockey-cli with a series of cryptic arguments
[20:03] <ali1234> i don't think anyone does that unless their system is so broken X won't start
[20:03] <elfy> and again someone likely to be installing -core is going to be more likely to know what they're doing anyway imo
[20:03] <ali1234> be careful with that argument
[20:04] <elfy> I'm never careful
[20:04] <ali1234> you might as well say that if they know what they're doing they can just install all the packages manually, and drop -core entirely
[20:04] <elfy> we can all go home then in that case :)
[20:04] <Unit193> Well, it's easy to install software-properties-gtk, but as xubuntu-default-settings has a desktop file for the settings manager to it, may want to leave it.
[20:07] <brainwash> what about the infamous catfish search app?
[20:07] <Unit193> Not required IMO, but it's nice for those that use it.
[20:08] <brainwash> does it still require the zeitgeist backend?
[20:09] <Unit193> Nope, been fixed.
[20:09] <brainwash> took them like 1 year to fix it :)
[20:11] <Unit193> Too late, been purged a long time, I use locate and find. :D
[20:12] <Unit193> elfy: Oh, do you actually use it (often)?
[20:13] <elfy> use what?
[20:13] <elfy> Unit193: ^^
[20:14] <Unit193> Synaptic.
[20:14] <elfy> yep
[20:14] <elfy> I always use it - can't be bothered to fiddle with apt-get unless I know the package name and haven't got time to wait for USC
[20:15] <Unit193> Might be worth adding if removing the only other installed GUI package manager, but preference again?   Same with gdebi?
[20:15] <elfy> it is a personal preference imo
[20:16] <elfy> yea - I have that kciking about as well
[20:17] <elfy> but if we need to keep USC re comments of micah then perhaps synaptic should be like other things people install for preference
[20:17] <Unit193> Ah, desktop stuff.  Yeah, I just want to drop it to a recommend.
[20:18] <elfy> synaptic?
[20:18] <Unit193> USC, currently xubuntu-desktop depends on it.
[20:19] <Unit193> brainwash: Any more input?  Or am I just totally off my rocker?
[20:19] <elfy> Unit193: I think that USC is likely to be on of those things we should have
[20:24] <Unit193> knome: The themes section is actually following with the seed theme section.  "Other" contains xubuntu-artwork thoughts.
[20:24] <brainwash> Unit193: is the general idea to establish a Xubuntu light edition (ubuntu minimal + xubuntu core)?
[20:24] <knome> aha
[20:25] <Unit193> brainwash: Yes, very minimal install but one that actually basically works OOTB (thus, networkmanager.)
[20:25] <knome> minimal but usable on a daily installation
[20:26] <knome> if somebody wants something even lighter, they probably want a weird enough installation that's best to do manually
[20:27] <brainwash> mmh, that made me think of xubuntu cli edition
[20:28] <knome> that wouldn't be xubuntu...
[20:28] <brainwash> xubuntu logo inside the terminal
[20:29] <Unit193> Like archey does, only blue.
[20:29] <knome> no, i don't think that's still xubuntu
[20:29] <Unit193> (Kidding.)
[20:30] <knome> (i know)
[20:31] <brainwash> so, who would benefit from the -core installation? wouldn't it split the community?
[20:32] <knome> people who would install other default apps anyway
[20:32] <Unit193> For use with the mini.iso.
[20:32] <brainwash> everyone does
[20:32] <knome> the point is to make -core still be xubuntu, to avoid not being xubuntu or splitting the community
[20:32] <brainwash> "everyone"
[20:33] <knome> it's dangerous to go the generalisation route...
[20:33] <Unit193> I don't think the tech board rules metapackages?  Anywho, thanks and I'll read more when I get back. :)
[20:34] <Unit193> That is to say, don't think they do for things like apport/-core.
[20:34] <knome> hmph, no idea
[20:34] <knome> if it's installable via ubiquity, they might
[20:40] <elfy> knome: is the idea/hope to be working on this so it's available for 14.04?
[20:40] <knome> elfy, yep
[20:41] <elfy> ok - and for the moment we are assuming that a default xubuntu standard thing is the same as now for
[20:41] <elfy> 14.04
[20:41] <elfy> I guess
[20:41] <knome> well we have to assume something, right? :)
[20:41] <elfy> yep
[20:41] <elfy> I'm just starting to think about what I want to do with testing for T
[20:42] <knome> :)
[20:42] <knome> automated testing
[20:42] <knome> ;)
[20:42] <elfy> don't mind the sands shifting a bit under my feet as long as we don't get a landslide is all :)
[20:42] <elfy> yep - it's foremost in my head now
[20:42] <knome> nobody's hoping that
[20:43] <elfy> indeed :)
[20:44] <elfy> knome: did you see this one? http://pad.ubuntu.com/duYDbHFs7s
[20:44] <knome> nope, not yet
[20:44] <elfy> mmk
[20:44] <knome> agreed with the last point
[20:45] <knome> we definitely should try to cut down to one test
[20:45] <knome> or maybe two
[20:45] <knome> post-installation
[20:45] <knome> and hardware stuff
[20:45] <knome> like printers, scanners...
[20:45] <elfy> ok - makes sense - will look at that
[20:45] <knome> could be easier to track possibly hardware-related issues and software issues separated
[20:45] <elfy> yep
[20:45] <knome> let me know if you need help with it at any point
[20:46] <elfy> I'll work on it - get to a point I'm happy and then you can look and we can go from there - does that make sense?
[20:46] <knome> yep, that sounds good
[20:46] <elfy> k
[21:00] <OvenWerks> knome: with regards to the LO discusion. ubuntustudio uses an installer that lets studio put an installer in say the office menu that has just office apps in it. We use it for one because we don't ship LO (or abiword for that matter). I am willing to change it to be more generic if it would help
[21:01] <knome> OvenWerks, i know you do - and thanks
[21:01] <knome> OvenWerks, not sure if that's something we want to do since we ship *some* office apps already, but we'll see
[21:01] <OvenWerks> It is easy to configure to have whatever you want in a menu.
[21:02] <knome> yep, i get that
[21:02] <OvenWerks> The next version does not show things already installed
[21:02] <knome> :)
[21:02] <elfy> knome: I'd certainly like to see the option discussed
[21:03] <knome> that doesn't remove other packages though
[21:03] <OvenWerks> no
[21:03] <knome> (and i don't think it should)
[21:03] <OvenWerks> It is just that we can't ship "everything"
[21:03] <elfy> knome: I don't remove the defaults either - but then my install's tend to not last longer than 4 months anyway
[21:04] <elfy> anyway - night all
[21:04] <knome> i can imagine many people installing LO wanting to remove abiword/gnumeric though
[21:05] <knome> night elfy :)
[21:05] <elfy> knome: those people can do so - personally I'm not worried about a few bytes of space
[21:05] <knome> heh, yeah
[21:06] <knome> but then people can also do that with UCS/synaptic and no menu entry ;)
[21:06] <elfy> but if LO was default and I wanted abiword/gnumeric - I'd be wanting to remove LO
[21:06] <knome> sure
[21:07] <elfy> yea - this is one of those discussions that it's hard to have here as we're more likely to know what we want to do
[21:07] <elfy> what we NEED to do is provide a sane default
[21:07] <OvenWerks> The main problem with installing LO that I have had, is that the default *.doc opener remains abiword... which has confused my wife.
[21:07] <elfy> OvenWerks: I noticed that too
[21:07] <knome> OvenWerks, that's naturally fixable, but yeah, i can see that confusing people
[21:08] <OvenWerks> My wife sends gets file from windows computers a lot
[21:08] <elfy> I fix it the first time I remember - what I've not managed to do is remember earlier ;)
[21:08] <OvenWerks> :)
[21:10] <elfy> anyway - sofa beckons - cya
[21:45] <knome> i'm off to bed as well
[21:45] <knome> i'll be back in 12 hours or sth
[21:45] <knome> o/


[05:32] <cpaelzer> rbasak: those three packages are also fully in cosmic and in main there
[05:33] <cpaelzer> I see them under "Binary only movements to universe" thou on https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.txt
[05:38] <cpaelzer> If anything I'd read it as these three have nothing holding them in main anymore
[05:39] <cpaelzer> also the LP view on the new upload LGTM
[05:39] <cpaelzer> rbasak: I think my archive-component-foo is too bad for this special case, ping me later to help me understanding this please (/me wants to learn what I miss)
[06:03] <lordievader> Good morning
[06:32] <DirtyCajun> anyone played with tgt recently? I am having issues presenting a bare drive directly to direct-store. any backing-store *.img files work fine
[07:44] <cpaelzer> DirtyCajun: only with .img files which worked for me (but also for you)
[08:09] <DirtyCajun> damn
[08:10] <DirtyCajun> ive tried  /dev/sd. ..... ive tried put it in a vg and making a lv for it...  othing.
[08:10] <DirtyCajun> there is NO NEED to create a filesystem and add that overhead
[08:24] <zioproto> good morning
[08:24] <zioproto> I used to download sources of pristine-tar from http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/collab-maint/pristine-tar.git
[08:24] <zioproto> but now this repo is gone :(
[08:24] <zioproto> anyone knows where to find the official new repo for this tool ?
[08:28] <ikonia> thats not really an ubuntu problem zioproto
[08:28] <zioproto> ikonia: sorry I did not put context
[08:28] <zioproto> I used to build Ubuntu Xenial packages for Openstack
[08:29] <zioproto> but Xenial has a pristine-tar package too old
[08:29] <ikonia> and /
[08:29] <ikonia> ?
[08:29] <zioproto> and it is not possible to build ubuntu packages on xenial with pristine tar 1.33
[08:29] <ikonia> ok ?
[08:29] <zioproto> I had an automation script that installed 1.4x from that repo
[08:29] <zioproto> the repo is gone
[08:29] <ikonia> so basically a 3rd party script, provided by a 3rd party repo is now gone ?
[08:30] <zioproto> I am looking for a pristine-tar 1.44 backport for Xenial
[08:30] <zioproto> ikonia: the question is, is there a Ubuntu Xenial backport for pristine-tar 1.44 ?
[08:30] <zioproto> like a PPA or something
[08:30] <zioproto> I cant find it
[08:30] <ikonia> so basically a 3rd party script, provided by a 3rd party repo is now gone ?
[08:30] <zioproto> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pristine-tar
[08:31] <ikonia> those repos listed in https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pristine-tar are still there
[08:32] <zioproto> OK I sorted it out
[08:32] <zioproto> sudo apt-get install ./pristine-tar_1.44_amd64.deb
[08:32] <zioproto> got the package from https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archive/primary/+files/pristine-tar_1.44_amd64.deb
[08:32] <zioproto> that is what I needed
[08:32] <zioproto> sorry for the nice
[08:32] <zioproto> noise
[09:49] <alex_dg> Hi! What secure GUI can I install on the server?
[14:46] <ahasenack> rbasak: I know it's a holiday, but if you are around, could you please kick an import for skytools3?
[21:04] <Neo4> how to back up and restore mysql?
[21:05] <Neo4> mysqldamp -u[user] -p[password] [db_name] > damp.sql
[21:05] <Neo4> it's for one database
[21:05] <Neo4> what shall I do if I want to make damp all mysql?
[21:05] <Neo4> and how recover?
[21:06] <Neo4> can I merge two database?
[21:26] <sdeziel> Neo4: you should probably read mysqldump's man page
[21:28] <Neo4> ok
[21:28] <Neo4> I will for one database do script for crone
[21:29] <Neo4> wp_cronetab_backup.sh "/var/www/[site_name]"
[21:29] <Neo4> and this will universal script to apply for many wp sites
[21:30] <Neo4> it will automatically get from wp-config.php credansials for mysql and do tar archive in $HOME/backup
[21:31] <Neo4> with current site_name_date_time.tar.gz
[21:36] <sdeziel> Neo4: dunno if that can help you but I've been using this system-wide cron for years: https://sdeziel.info/mysql/mysql-backup
[21:37] <sdeziel> it uses the default super MySQL user from /etc/mysql/debian.cnf
[21:43] <Neo4> sdeziel: yes, it very helped, I wanted to know how apps to connect to mysql without asking root password, They might use those credentials
[21:43] <Neo4> nice :)
[21:44] <Neo4> now I will also use that file for creating removing database/users withotu asking root
[21:46] <Neo4> this file /etc/mysql/debian.cnf
[21:46] <Neo4> you cant log in using it in phpmyadmin, but in terminal you can
[21:47] <Neo4> it might specially made for shell
[22:18] <Neo4> for creating without asking
[22:18] <Neo4> sudo mysqldump --defaults-extra-file=/etc/mysql/debian.cnf --single-transaction --lock-tables=false --quick --events wp_test2 > /var/www/wp.test2/damp.sql
[22:35] <rbasak> ahasenack: starting
[22:36] <rbasak> I think pristine-tar is broken in the importer somehow
[22:40] <rbasak> ahasenack: it failed
[22:40] <rbasak> Oh wait, my fault
[22:40] <rbasak> Running again now  properly
[22:52] <rbasak> ahasenack: done
[23:45] <foo> If I want something to monitor server load, what do you suggest? I used to have my own nagios server... but mainly looking for something to monitor server load at thi spoint
[23:45] <foo> Show me a graph
[23:46] <foo> One system (digital ocean droplet), pretty simple (ideally a free account if possible, can pay if I expand/want to watch multiple system)


[01:00] <guiverc> Bashing-om, I've written a summary for Joey's article (UM/flatpak), it'll need REVIEW  (highly direct-quote, but final sentence of mine really needs review)
[01:02] <Bashing-om> guiverc: :D - doing ^ .
[01:03] <Bashing-om> guiverc: I look again tomorrow for something that Wimpy may have whooped up for Mate.
[01:21] <Bashing-om> guiverc: Flatpak summary proof read done - and the end edits - this now work for you ?
[01:21] <guiverc> yep :)
[01:21] <guiverc> thanks Bashing-om
[01:22] <Bashing-om> \o/


[00:35] <pangolin> GTRsdk: you asked a support question in #ubuntu when you are not running Ubuntu.
[00:37] <pangolin> anyway, please part this channel if there is nothing further.
[01:05] <GTRsdk> oh yeah. Sorry about that. I forgot.
[09:31] <Myrtti> banned but not kicked
[12:33] <Pici> niko: sorry, I'm not really here.


[00:05] <ddecator> dang, new fail..
[00:09] <Mook_sb> think of it as having some new exciting bug to fix!
[00:09] <Mook_sb> (I have to try doing that, otherwise I'd end up stabbing things :p )
[00:10] <ddecator> Mook_sb: more practice, right? haha
[00:10] <ddecator> although this one is related to a patch we have..
[00:18] <ddecator> ah, got it
[00:23]  * ddecator hates huge patches
[00:56] <ddecator> dang, didn't fix it...i'm gonna have to look into it later :(
[01:05] <Mook_sb> want to paste the error somewhere in the mean time? :)
[01:07] <ddecator> Mook_sb: one of our patches deletes some files related to hunspell, and when i build it complains that it cannot find one of those files, not sure if the patch isn't working properly or if that's a new issue. it's related to xr again, so i'm going to see if i need to get any patches from the xr192 branch later :)
[01:07] <Mook_sb> ah; okay, you'd have a lot more handle on that (mostly because it involves actually building things to test) :D
[01:08] <ddecator> yah, unfortunately. i'm to the point i have to wait a half hour each time i test :/
[01:13] <micahg> ddecator: debuild -nc?
[01:13] <ddecator> micahg: what does that do again?
[01:13] <micahg> ddecator: doesn't clean the build dri
[01:13] <micahg> *dir
[01:14] <ddecator> micahg: oh yah, but where would it start the build?
[01:15] <micahg> ddecator: it starts at teh beginning, just doesn't rebuild components that are already built
[01:16] <ddecator> micahg: good to know, but unfortunately nothing is building yet...i need to remember that for when other things break though, i knew there was a way to do that but i couldn't remember :x
[01:16] <micahg> ddecator: it also, doesn't redo the tarball
[01:17] <ddecator> micahg: would still save time. thanks :)
[01:19] <ddecator> but i need a break from looking at the computer screen. i'll be back later to try and figure out the cause of the failure
[01:19] <chrisccoulson_> awesome, jaunty is nearly completely ready to go :)
[01:21] <asac> chrisccoulson_: did you see the question about new extensions on mailing list?
[01:21] <asac> maybe answer there ;)
[01:21] <asac> (its about 3.6.4 update and how organizations can be better prepared for it)
[01:21] <chrisccoulson_> asac - i did. i've not had time to answer yet though
[01:21] <asac> kk
[01:21] <chrisccoulson_> i'm not sure what to do though, as this is how firefox behaves upstream when extensions are updated too
[01:21] <asac> just wasnt sure if you are subscribed to discuss
[01:22] <chrisccoulson_> i am, but i generally don't read mails there. micahg pointed me to it earlier
[01:22] <micahg> gnomefreak point it out to me :)
[01:22] <asac> chrisccoulson_: right. but what he wondered is is if he updates the computers from ppa now ... will he get the new extension dialog again when the final rollout happens
[01:22] <asac> i would think we can say "typically not ... unless extensions need to be fixed still"
[01:23] <chrisccoulson_> ah, i misunderstood that then. no, users won't get the dialog again, as the updates in the archive will be the same as those in the PPA
[01:23] <asac> not sure why he doesnt have a problem in general with that ... probably because we dont update extensions (so system extensions seem to have a value;))
[01:23] <asac> though maybe he disabled the "check for extensions update" checkbox to avoid the on-startup upgrades
[01:23] <asac> btw, sunday is the day ;) ::: GER - ENG :-P
[01:24] <chrisccoulson_> lol
[01:24] <chrisccoulson_> i have no confidence in our team anyway ;)
[01:24] <chrisccoulson_> i'm surprised we made it to the last 16
[01:24] <asac> ;)
[01:24] <asac> i am surprised that ENG got that far too ... our team usually sucks (like today) ... but in the end often win ;)
[01:25] <asac> usually if you feel disgusted during the game you can be sure we win. if they play nice all is becoming risky ;)
[01:25] <chrisccoulson_> lol
[01:25] <chrisccoulson_> it should be an entertaining game
[01:25] <asac> yeah. at least its in south africa ... so there wont be riots ;)
[01:26] <asac> at least no country vs. country riots... i know that english folks do riots anyway ;) ... which is understandable given how bad they were in the past :-P
[01:27] <chrisccoulson_> yeah, sometimes i feel ashamed when our supporters behave so badly ;)
[01:27] <chrisccoulson_> fortunately, most of these people have their passports confiscated during major tournaments ;)
[01:27] <asac> right. i doubt those are really supporters though. they are just idiots
[01:28] <asac> and iirc we have the same ... but ENG is really famous for that ;)
[01:28] <asac> infamous
[01:28] <chrisccoulson_> heh :)
[01:28] <chrisccoulson_> we gave our daughter an england flag this afternoon
[01:28] <chrisccoulson_> she just tried to eat it
[01:29] <asac> ah. she got it right!
[01:29] <chrisccoulson_> she's at the age where evereything is edible ;)
[01:35] <asac> chrisccoulson_: you are still darth vader in directory btw ;)
[01:35] <asac> get a picture
[01:36] <chrisccoulson_> asac - yeah, i keep being asked to get a picture
[01:36] <asac> data:image/jpeg;base64,/9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD/4QAWRXhpZgAATU0AKgAAAAgAAAAAAAD/2wBDAAEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQH/2wBDAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQH/wAARCACNAI4DASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHgAAAgMBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAABwgGCQoFBAALAQP/xABmEAAABAIFBggGCwoICA8AAAABBAUGBxEAAgMVIQgUFjFBURMkJSY1YXGBEjQ2RZHwCRdERlVWZaGxwdEYIiMnM0JmduHxCjJDVGR1hYY3R2KU
[01:36] <asac> ooops
[01:36] <asac> that was long ;)
[01:36] <asac> can your irc client open that ;)?
[01:36] <asac> copy it to firefox
[01:37] <asac> guess it was cut off for you ;)
[01:37] <asac> should end with f/9k=
[01:37] <micahg> 340 char or so
[01:37] <asac> yeah. should be more like 1k+
[01:37] <chrisccoulson_> yeah, i think it was cut off
[01:37] <asac> 10k even ;)
[01:37] <asac> big
[01:38] <asac> for such a small image ;)
[01:38] <asac> ok nice try ;)
[01:38]  * asac drops out. 'night!
[01:39] <chrisccoulson_> 'night asac
[01:53] <micahg> chrisccoulson_: did you grab fennec yet?
[01:53] <chrisccoulson_> micahg - not yet
[01:53] <micahg> chrisccoulson_: k
[04:48] <ddecator> hm, the hunspell patch in sb isn't in xr192..
[04:49] <micahg> ddecator: it's probably opbsolete
[04:49] <micahg> *obsolete
[04:50] <ddecator> micahg: do you think i should remove it?
[04:50]  * micahg goes to look at the patch before commenting
[04:50] <ddecator> because the issue is a makefile needs one of the files that the patch currently deletes
[04:51] <micahg> ddecator: comment it out in series for now
[04:51] <micahg> ddecator: we can probably drop it
[04:51] <ddecator> micahg: sure thing
[04:53]  * ddecator uses debuild -nc :)
[05:48] <ddecator> well, shoot. sb _should_ be good now, but there is an issue upstream preventing the build from finishing (their bot failed for the same reason) so i'll have to wait until that is fixed -_-
[05:49] <micahg> ddecator: weave aka sync will now be in FF trunk :)
[05:50] <ddecator> micahg: nice, and webm has been working fairly well (still loads two audio stream for some videos) :)
[05:51] <ddecator> i just saw their blog post of linux gui mock-ups for FF4
[13:10] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: hi! do you have an idea when the openjdk-6 packages for jaunty and karmic will be uploaded? I'm trying to decide whether to pull the trigger on hardy/lucid
[13:10] <chrisccoulson> jdstrand - i found an issue on hardy i'm looking at atm
[13:11] <chrisccoulson> the totem plugin doesn't actually work (although I thought it did, i wasn't really playing media with that plugin)
[13:11] <chrisccoulson> jdstrand - see https://developer.mozilla.org/en/firefox_3.6_for_developers
[13:11] <chrisccoulson> "The NPN_GetValue() function no longer provides access to XPCOM through the variable values NPNVserviceManager, NPNVDOMelement, and NPNVDOMWindow. This is part of the work toward making plugins run in separate processes in a future version of Gecko."
[13:12] <chrisccoulson> that breaks the totem plugin big time :(
[13:13] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: hrmm. that means my tests also didn't use the plugin :(
[13:13] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: what url/filetype did you use to verify totem?
[13:13] <chrisccoulson> jdstrand - yeah, i got caught out by that. if i just open up an mpeg or something on my filesystem, then it doesn't play
[13:14] <chrisccoulson> but i tested by playing an ogv embedded in a webpage before, which doesn't play in totem
[13:14] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: so you soemthing like file:///<path>.mpeg?
[13:15] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: basically, I want to know what you did exactly so I can update my test :)
[13:16] <chrisccoulson> jdstrand - yeah, i just went to File -> Open File and pointed it to an mpeg. the plugin in the archive won't load that anymore with FF3.6 (it fails with "Failed to get the service manager")
[13:16] <chrisccoulson> and my feeble attempt at rebuilding totem with xul192 in the PPA will actually just make firefox abort completely
[13:16] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: ok, thanks
[13:17] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: so, what is the plan now?
[13:17] <chrisccoulson> jdstrand - i'm cherrypicking bits from the later totem plugin which avoids using the missing API
[13:17] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: ok. sounds good. I won't keep you
[13:18] <chrisccoulson> i expect that will work, but it's just taking a while (I don't really want to backport the whole of totem, else we will end up in the same situation as we did with epiphany-webkit)
[13:18] <chrisccoulson> ie, needing half of glib and gtk backporting too ;)
[13:29]  * jdstrand nods
[13:29] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: so, gnome-chemistry-utils is deleted. sru?
[13:30] <chrisccoulson> jdstrand - there's no need to do even that, the plugin wasn't detected in hardy release
[13:30] <jdstrand> k, thanks
[13:30] <chrisccoulson> i only realised that when i went to investigate it not rendering properly after the update
[13:30] <chrisccoulson> i'm glad i tested totem again though :-/
[13:31] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: yes! nice catch
[13:31] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: I will be updating my tests to catch this in the future
[13:31] <jdstrand> s/this/this sort of thing/
[14:57] <asac> !test
[14:57] <ubot2> hrm?
[15:01] <BUGabundo> hi asac
[15:01] <BUGabundo> still testing with the bot?
[15:01] <BUGabundo> why do you even need 100mbs if they don't work?
[15:13] <asac> special situation
[15:26] <BUGabundo> man ... desktopcouch broken AGAIN
[15:26] <BUGabundo> why can't this peace of software hold for more then 2 weeks?!?!?
[16:56] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: do you have a bug # for the totem regression?
[16:56] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: or rather, did you file a bug for it?
[16:56] <chrisccoulson> jdstrand - not yet. i've just got it to build with the changes in now, so, going to test it
[16:56] <chrisccoulson> hopefully it will work :)
[16:57] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: k. I created some free avi, mpg and ogv files for QRT, and update my test script to use file:// as well as embedded
[16:57] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: the test catches the regression, so I feel pretty good going forward
[17:00] <chrisccoulson> jdstrand - cool :)
[17:00] <chrisccoulson> it works btw :)
[17:00] <chrisccoulson> first time!
[17:02] <jdstrand> \o/
[17:02] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: nice! :)
[17:03] <chrisccoulson> jdstrand - the only issue is i have to disable the totem-complex plugin (as that doesn't build)
[17:03] <chrisccoulson> but that only handles realaudio
[17:04] <chrisccoulson> and it has been removed entirely from jaunty onwards anyway
[17:04] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: I can release note that
[17:04] <chrisccoulson> thanks
[17:04] <chrisccoulson> i will tidy up the changelog and get that in to the PPA now
[17:04] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: of course, that makes helix-player slightly more important I guess ;)
[17:04] <chrisccoulson> yeah, that's a bit of a pain
[17:04] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: but still, not a blocker
[17:06] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: what other plugins work in hardy that can play realaudio?
[17:07] <jdstrand> (for the release note, I thought it might be nice to recommend something)
[17:07] <chrisccoulson> jdstrand - i'm not sure. i don't even think there are any in lucid (helix doesn't work there either, and totem doesn't handle it)
[17:07] <chrisccoulson> perhaps VLC?
[17:07] <chrisccoulson> but that crashes the browser in jaunty :-/
[17:07] <chrisccoulson> i'll test it on hardy and see what happens
[17:09] <micahg> xine-plugin?
[17:11]  * BUGabundoWriting raises an eye brow
[17:11] <jdstrand> right, but this release note is only for hardy, and hardy users will upgrade to lucid
[17:11] <BUGabundoWriting> anyone knows that maverick codecs are broken?
[17:15] <chrisccoulson> jdstrand - ok, totem uploaded now
[17:16] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: thanks! btw, is vlc broken in jaunty release? I know you told me, but I forgot
[17:16] <chrisccoulson> jdstrand, yeah, the plugin crashes firefox in jaunty release too
[17:16] <jdstrand> k
[17:16] <chrisccoulson> i'm just about to test that in hardy now
[17:17] <jdstrand> well, it doesn't crash 3.6.4 on hardy
[17:19] <jdstrand> and it seems to play the file:// URLs. my plugin detection for my embedded tests failed, but that is y testing
[17:25] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, xine-plugin crashes firefox too
[17:33] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: so if you disable the realaudio support, it obviously will not show up in about:plugins as a supported format. I removed totem-mozilla here and found some x-pn-realaudio content, and was prompted to install xine or gecko-mediaplayer (gmplayer). this is enough for the release note
[17:38] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: and gnome-mediaplayer seems to work
[18:37] <LLStarks> rick spencer is wrong. dead wrong.
[18:37] <LLStarks> and he's spreading fud about firefox in ubuntu
[18:39] <ddecator> huh wha?
[18:40] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: I've tested the new hardy/totem, and it is much better. however it still has one regression
[18:41] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: it can't find the location of embedded media for a relative path when using file:// on the url
[18:41] <jdstrand> eg
[18:41] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: eg, go to http://people.canonical.com/~jamie/totem-test/
[18:42] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: if you click on 'embed_full.html', then after a few seconds you will see a movie of the jaunty desktop
[18:43] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: if you do 'Save Link As' for both embed_file_url.html and rfbproxy-jaunty.ogv, then try to open embed_file_url.html via 'File/Open', it won't play
[18:43] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: it does play in jaunty and lucid
[18:46] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: it used to work with 3.0.19
[18:52] <chrisccoulson> jdstrand - ok, will have a look at that in a minute. i'm just testing a few things in hardy release atm
[18:55] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: k
[19:01] <chrisccoulson> jdstrand - ok, having xine-plugin installed makes firefox crash on startup after the upgrade
[19:01] <chrisccoulson> that's not good :(
[19:01] <jdstrand> bummer :(
[19:02]  * jdstrand makes a note
[19:02] <LLStarks> did you guys see rick spencer's comment?
[19:03] <chrisccoulson> LLStarks, where was that?
[19:05] <jcastro> LLStarks: I think you should calm down before accusing someone of spreading fud
[19:05] <LLStarks> http://www.webupd8.org/2010/06/ubuntu-wont-become-rolling-release.html
[19:06] <jcastro> why don't you just ask him to clarify so he can correct the error?
[19:06] <LLStarks> he's not on freenode
[19:06] <LLStarks> i sent him a message on twitter
[19:06] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, LLStarks, your comment on there is completely and utterly wrong
[19:06] <LLStarks> howso?
[19:06] <chrisccoulson> rick is well aware of the mozilla policy, and has been involved with it all along
[19:07] <chrisccoulson> LLStarks, well, I work with rick
[19:07] <LLStarks> am i wrong about 3.6.4 and 4.0 getting backported?
[19:07] <LLStarks> because that's what micah and asac told me a few weeks ago
[19:07] <chrisccoulson> LLStarks, no, but that is completely orthogonal to any discussion of a rolling release
[19:08] <chrisccoulson> and i can tell you with 100% certaintly that your comment about rick not being aware of the policy is completely wrong
[19:08] <LLStarks> i didn't imply that he didn't know. he just phrased things a bit awkwardly.
[19:09] <chrisccoulson> LLStarks, your words exatly: "As a member of the Ubuntu-MozillaSquad, I can honestly say that Rick has no idea what he's talking about with respect to Firefox."
[19:09] <chrisccoulson> how do you not imply that he didn't know?
[19:09] <chrisccoulson> i think you should clarify yourself on that blog before you make yourself look a fool
[19:10] <LLStarks> i will. i didn't ask andrew to post my stuff.
[19:12] <LLStarks> apologized.
[19:13] <chrisccoulson> LLStarks, thanks
[19:13] <LLStarks> note to self: don't post on blogs where webmasters actually read comments
[19:14] <chrisccoulson> LLStarks, the comment "It does not make Ubuntu a rolling release. You will not be able to get the latest versions of apps like Firefox, Open Office, etc... from this method" is true though - we won't be distributing new versions of firefox via this method
[19:14] <chrisccoulson> we will be updating versions in the archive though, but they won't be updated immediately each time a new version comes along
[19:14] <chrisccoulson> the plan is that firefox will be updated to the next major release as the current version approaches EOL
[19:15] <LLStarks> i know that extras isn't the same as main or -updates, i only sought to not many people know about the firefox policy.
[19:15] <LLStarks> *sought to clarify
[19:15] <LLStarks> *clarify since
[19:16] <chrisccoulson> people will know about the firefox policy in the next few days ;)
[19:17] <chrisccoulson> also, i really hope hardy and karmic don't get 4.0 ;)
[19:17] <chrisccoulson> we're hoping that 3.6 is supported long enough to see those releases through to the end now
[19:17] <LLStarks> are there technical considerations against giving 4.0 to hardy and karmic?
[19:18] <chrisccoulson> it's an incredible amount of effort to introduce the new version, as i'm finding out right now
[19:18] <chrisccoulson> we don't want to do it again in the next year if we can avoid it
[19:18] <jdstrand> totally!
[19:18] <LLStarks> i can imagine them being a more of a nightmare than the lucid transition of xulrunner
[19:18] <chrisccoulson> yeah, it is
[19:18] <chrisccoulson> i've been working on the 3.6 transition for weeks now
[19:19] <chrisccoulson> along with jdstrand and micahg
[19:19] <LLStarks> btw, is the transition for main or updates?
[19:20] <LLStarks> i wasn't too sure.
[19:20] <jdstrand> LLStarks: it is going through -security
[19:20] <chrisccoulson> LLStarks, main and updates are 2 different things. the update will be published through security, and will affect applications in all components
[19:21] <LLStarks> ah.
[19:21] <LLStarks> hardy shipping with 3.0 beta 5 is the whole reason for this, right?
[19:22] <chrisccoulson> LLStarks, hardy currently has <IP_ADDRESS>
[19:22] <chrisccoulson> 3.0b5 was the release version, but it's been maintained since then
[19:27] <LLStarks> with xulrunner and firefox no longer joined at the hip, will the transitions get easier as releases expire? that is, will it take only 2 week instead of 2 months in 2012 for example?
[19:28] <chrisccoulson> LLStarks, that's what we hope. decoupling them doesn't particularly make the updates that much easier though. what will make the updates easier is reducing in-archive reverse dependencies
[19:28] <chrisccoulson> which we alaready started in lucid
[19:28] <chrisccoulson> and also reducing the number of extensions in the archive, as we have a crazy amount to update in the older releases
[19:30] <LLStarks> too many things rely on specific xulrunner versions
[19:30] <chrisccoulson> yeah, that's a problem
[19:31] <chrisccoulson> jdstrand - micahg posted a mail to tb-planning a few days ago asking about the life of tb3.0
[19:31] <chrisccoulson> and we've just had a response saying that it's likely to be supported for significantly less than 6 months
[19:31] <chrisccoulson> so, we might need to start preparing 3.1 for lucid soon ;)
[19:32] <jdstrand> \o/
[19:32] <jdstrand> well, that should be far less painful
[19:32] <chrisccoulson> yeah, hopefully
[19:32] <LLStarks> i haven't been too impressed with the tb3.1 tarballs. nothing new or earthshattering feature-wise.
[19:33] <chrisccoulson> LLStarks, that's good from a maintenance POV ;)
[19:33] <ddecator> tb 3.1 has an add-on for conversation-style threading, so i may switch once that starts working :)
[19:33] <chrisccoulson> we don't want it to be too different
[19:34] <LLStarks> that's what they said about evolution for lucid
[19:35] <jcastro> ddecator: wait, what? link!
[19:36] <ddecator> jcastro: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/54035/
[19:36] <chrisccoulson> we'll get 3.1 in to maverick soon
[19:37] <chrisccoulson> jdstrand - hmmm, firefox works with xine-plugin installed now. perhaps i started it with some media open in another tab previously
[19:39] <LLStarks> thunderbird has become such a snooze that i didn't even know 3.1 was released.
[19:40] <chrisccoulson> jdstrand, ok, it crashes when trying to play media. that's not so bad (and this plugin isn't even detected in hardy release)
[19:40] <LLStarks> either the blogs are slow, or there was no hyping
[19:43] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: so in hardy release, the plugin is not detected, but in 3.6.4 it is, but doesn't crash until you try to play media?
[19:43] <ddecator> just gonna leave this here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIZUdZdFzOo&feature=player_embedded
[19:44] <chrisccoulson> jdstrand - yeah, that's right. so, we probably still need to release note that, in case people wonder why their browser starts crashing ;)
[19:44] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: ok, I'll confirm your findings and adjust
[19:46] <jdstrand> ddecator: that is fun! :)
[19:47] <ddecator> jdstrand: :)
[19:49] <DBO> ping fta
[19:50] <fta> DBO, ?
[19:50] <DBO> fta, hi I was told you might be a good person to discuss chromium with
[19:51] <fta> DBO, depends. what do you want?
[19:51] <DBO> multiple things, do you mind a private chat?
[19:51] <chrisccoulson> jdstrand, ok, for totem - the plugin is turning the relative path in to an absolute path in your home folder for some reason :-/
[19:51] <chrisccoulson> so it always tries to play $HOME/rfbproxj-jaunty.ogv
[19:52] <jdstrand> huh
[19:52] <fta> DBO, nope, feel free
[19:52] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: I guess it would normally play from cache or /tmp?
[19:53]  * jdstrand hasn't ever looked at how totem works
[19:53] <chrisccoulson> jdstrand - for http URI's, probably
[19:53] <jdstrand> s/ever/never/
[19:53] <chrisccoulson> but for file URI's, it just plays them directly
[19:53] <jdstrand> I see
[19:53] <chrisccoulson> (the plugin passes the file URI to the viewer process)
[19:54] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: I can say that jaunty 3.6.4 and its totem does work, if that is helpful
[19:55] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i suspect it's something to do with my patch ;
[19:55] <jdstrand> I wasn't going to say that, but was trying to gently hint ;)
[20:07] <chrisccoulson> jdstrand - hmmm, weird. it breaks in the viewer process rather than the plugin, which my patch doesn't touch
[20:07] <chrisccoulson> you don't happen to have a machine without the updates on do you?
[20:07] <chrisccoulson> (hardy)
[20:08] <chrisccoulson> i wouldn't mind seeing the dbus activity on <IP_ADDRESS> with the old hardy plugin
[20:10] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: I do
[20:11] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: tell my what you want
[20:11] <chrisccoulson> jdstrand - i'm quite interested in the parameters in the OpenURI message that the browser sends
[20:11] <chrisccoulson> i'm going to check them on jaunty after the updates, but it would be useful to see hardy before the update too
[20:12] <chrisccoulson> just so i can figure out which side is wrong ;)
[20:12] <chrisccoulson> (plugin or viewer)
[20:13] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: can you give me the command you want me to run?
[20:13] <chrisccoulson> jdstrand - you can just capture the output of dbus-monitor as you open the html file
[20:14] <fta> jdstrand, will you remove chromium from proposed soon?
[20:16] <chrisccoulson> ok, so the browser plugin in jaunty behaves the same as in hardy
[20:17] <chrisccoulson> i suspect the behaviour changed between the 2 releases and i need to apply a corresponding change to the viewer in hardy
[20:18] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: http://paste.ubuntu.com/454640/
[20:18] <jdstrand> fta: I'm told it gets removed automatically. is it causing a problem?
[20:18] <fta> jdstrand, no, i'm just curious
[20:19] <fta> jdstrand, http://people.ubuntu.com/~fta/ppa-dashboard/chromium-daily.html  i see "SUP" :)
[20:19] <chrisccoulson> jdstrand - ah, so the old plugin does behave quite a bit differently
[20:20] <jdstrand> fta: cleaning out the -proposed queue is really the ubuntu-sru team's responsibility. I could do it, but I don't want to miss a step in their process (I am not on that team)
[20:21] <fta> jdstrand, no worries, it's all fine
[20:21] <jdstrand> fta: I did ask fairly recently, and pitti told me it should happen automatically at some point
[20:21] <jdstrand> iirc
[20:21]  * jdstrand nods
[20:22] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: I can confirm that xine-plugin and gxineplugin do not register in hardy release
[20:23] <chrisccoulson> jdstrand - thanks
[20:23] <chrisccoulson> i can see where the issues is with totem now
[20:23] <gnomefreak> @btlogin
[20:23] <gnomefreak> damnit
[20:23] <chrisccoulson> (it needs some magic to resolve the relative URI in the viewer)
[20:23] <chrisccoulson> i will fix that after dinner
[20:25] <jdstrand> cool, thanks
[20:28] <gnomefreak> dont mind me i working on something
[20:40] <gnomefreak> why does it tell you that you are enabled and when you tryt o enable it tells you you cant (nautilus)
[20:40] <gnomefreak> thats just stupid
[20:40] <gnomefreak> i know who to ask
[20:47] <gnomefreak> its a bug :)
[20:49] <gnomefreak> @whoami
[20:49] <ubot2> gnomefreak: I don't recognize you.
[20:50] <gnomefreak> of courcse you dont you asshole
[20:56]  * gnomefreak going to regret asking this but is there any chance of getting ubufox to use bing ans a search engine choice. My wife likes it
[20:56] <micahg> gnomefreak: :P
[20:56]  * gnomefreak never used it
[20:58] <gnomefreak> ok it is literally worthless IMHO
[20:59]  * BUGabundoWriting trips gnomefreak
[20:59] <gnomefreak> already fell
[21:01] <gnomefreak> ask and google are a little better so maybe its what im searching for
[21:02] <micahg> gnomefreak: mozilla 534617
[21:02]  * micahg kicks ubot2
[21:02]  * gnomefreak looking for the site that tells you how to make the output of wrong password be funny
[21:02] <ubot2> micahg: Error: Could not parse XML returned by Mozilla: The read operation timed out (http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/xml.cgi?id=534617)
[21:02] <gnomefreak> brb
[21:02] <micahg> mozilla 534617
[21:03] <gnomefreak> i got it
[21:03] <ubot2> Mozilla bug 534617 in Search "Bing is not on available search engines" [Normal,Unconfirmed] http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=534617
[21:03] <gnomefreak> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=534617
[21:03] <chrisccoulson> jdstrand - how much work do you think you need to do for us to do the hardy release?
[21:03] <gnomefreak> i went into -ops to do it
[21:03] <gnomefreak> why upstream this isnt something we can add to ubufox?
[21:04] <micahg> gnomefreak: no reason to
[21:04] <gnomefreak> hint upstream didnt enable all the LP ones we have
[21:04] <micahg> gnomefreak: ubufox should be Ubuntu specific stuff, no need for this to be Ubuntu specific
[21:04]  * gnomefreak doesnt care one way or another she just asked
[21:04] <gnomefreak> micahg: good point
[21:04] <micahg> gnomefreak: so you can vote on the upstream bug :)
[21:05] <gnomefreak> yeah but do i want my name involved with bing :(
[21:05] <BUGa_LegendSeker> ahahahaha
[21:05] <micahg> heh, does it show who votes?
[21:05] <BUGa_LegendSeker> get your wife to do it
[21:08] <gnomefreak> dont know but i commented on it since it was talking about default (or at least someone posted that)
[21:08] <gnomefreak> why she would use my username for upstream
[21:09] <gnomefreak> i dont see a "vote*"
[21:09] <gnomefreak> yes i do
[21:09]  * ddecator hands gnomefreak my glasses
[21:09] <gnomefreak> debfx: got mine on too :)
[21:10] <micahg> gnomefreak: tab complete failure :)
[21:10] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: I'm targetting monday for hardy and lucid
[21:10] <gnomefreak> oops yeah
[21:10] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: we could probably do it tomorrow, but I'd rather have the week for regressions
[21:10] <gnomefreak> today is just going oh so frigging great
[21:11] <micahg> chrisccoulson: jdstrand: I'll have Seamonkey ready Sat night w/the new changelog
[21:11] <chrisccoulson> jdstrand, yeah, i'd rather not do tomorrow. i'd like a break over the weekend
[21:11]  * gnomefreak be back maybe i can do something that works out right today
[21:11] <micahg> TB backports hopefully monday
[21:11] <gnomefreak> but im sure ill burn myself again
[21:11] <chrisccoulson> but i will be finished on hardy easily by this evening
[21:11] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: how do you feel about monday?
[21:11] <jdstrand> micahg: great!
[21:11] <chrisccoulson> micahg - thanks
[21:11] <chrisccoulson> jdstrand - monday should be fine
[21:11] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: cool
[21:12] <micahg> jdstrand: what's going on with openjdk backports?  do I need to get those up in a PPA so they can be pushed to security PPA?
[21:12] <jdstrand> micahg: yes please. I thought that was how we left it...
[21:12] <micahg> jdstrand: k, just verifying
[21:13] <micahg> jdstrand: don't know if I can get that before the weekend
[21:13] <jdstrand> micahg: sbeattie will be handling the TCK testing. he is currently getting the environment all set up
[21:13] <micahg> jdstrand: k, so If I have it by monday, we're good?
[21:13] <jdstrand> micahg: that should be ok, yes.
[21:14] <micahg> jdstrand: k
[21:14] <jdstrand> micahg: thanks :)
[21:14] <Mook_sb> gnomefreak: for a single user, in the mean time you can probably do something like http://mycroft.mozdev.org/bing-search-search-plugins.html instead
[21:16] <ddecator> Mook_sb: btw, songbird just finished building for me :)
[21:16] <Mook_sb> ddecator: :D _successfully_ ?
[21:16] <ddecator> Mook_sb: well, the debs were made, now i just need to test it. btw, if you guys don't support linux, why do you still have a bot that builds for linux? :p
[21:17] <Mook_sb> ddecator: we don't have QA people for linux :p
[21:17] <ddecator> Mook_sb: just thought it was funny. every time i mention songbird people just say "they don't support it, you can't build it" -_-
[21:19] <Mook_sb> ddecator: by the same logic, the debian powerpc package for iceweasel doesn't exist either ;)
[21:19] <ddecator> haha
[21:19] <ddecator> and it works! just gotta figure out the commits..
[21:19] <gnomefreak> thanks
[21:19] <gnomefreak> micahg: ^^
[21:20] <gnomefreak> ddecator: you got the python and the ?= worked out?
[21:20]  * micahg wants to add Songbird in Maverick +1
[21:20]  * gnomefreak likes the "and it works" [art of that
[21:20] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: I have another totem item for your list: if I go to http://people.canonical.com/~jamie/totem-test/embed_full.html in hardy epiphany, it will play the video fine, but when I close epiphany, it leaves a totem-plugin-viewer process running. this is a regression over hardy release
[21:20] <ddecator> gnomefreak: yah, i just had to make a patch that made it look for python2.6 instead of python2.5
[21:21] <ddecator> micahg: sounds good to me :)
[21:21] <gnomefreak> ddecator: ah
[21:21] <gnomefreak> any chance of getting this into the daily PPA in the meantime?
[21:21] <jdstrand> meh, he dropped off
[21:21]  * gnomefreak been wanting to play with this for a long time
[21:22] <ddecator> once i get everything committed and micah gets time to review
[21:22] <ddecator> i also want to setup a stable ppa at some point
[21:23] <gnomefreak> ddecator: cool
[21:32] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: hey. from scrollback:
[21:32] <jdstrand> 15:20 < jdstrand> chrisccoulson: I have another totem item for your list: if I  go to  http://people.canonical.com/~jamie/totem-test/embed_full.html  in hardy epiphany, it will play the video fine, but when I  close epiphany, it leaves a totem-plugin-viewer process  running. this is a regression over hardy release
[21:33] <chrisccoulson> jdstrand - ok, i will look at that too
[21:34] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: thanks. those two epiphany issues are the only ones I have on my list as pending for hardy-security
[21:34] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: sorry, those two *totem* issues
[21:34] <chrisccoulson> i'm just about to test the fix for the first issue
[21:35] <jdstrand> nice
[21:41] <ddecator> Mook_sb: when i mention you, is it ok if i use your name or do you want me to just use your email?
[21:42] <Mook_sb> ddecator: just refer to me as Mook should be fine? and pick one of my emails, doesn't matter which :)
[21:42] <ddecator> Mook_sb: sounds good :)
[21:51] <ddecator> micahg: not sure if i formatted it all correctly, but i did what i think is right and pushed to the branch, so the merge is updating. i'm guessing you'll have to review later since there are so many changes, just let me know what i need to change when you get around to it
[21:51] <ddecator> anyway, i have to go eat dinner. bbl
[21:52] <Mook_sb> ddecator: hmm, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ddecator/songbird/fix-songbird-daily-build-20100416/revision/121 the change to the new line 102 is wrong, it should be --enable-debug
[21:53] <Mook_sb> (I think this means it won't actually make a debug build when you set WANT_DEBUG_BUILD=1)
[21:55] <Mook_sb> ddecator: and for http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ddecator/songbird/fix-songbird-daily-build-20100416/revision/119 that can be worked around if you  set PYTHON in XUL_CONFIGURE_ENV I think
[22:02] <gnomefreak> wait you commited it <evil grin> be back reboot is needed for test
[22:06] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: interesting. the totem plugin not being close on browser close also affects jaunty epiphany after the upgrade, but not jaunty release
[22:07] <chrisccoulson> heh, that is strange
[22:07] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: that seems to point to a larger 1.9.2/epiphany/totem interaction
[22:07] <jdstrand> I'll check karmic and lucid too
[22:08] <chrisccoulson> jdstrand, thanks. those are both using webkit though aren't they?
[22:08] <jdstrand> oh, yeah. true
[22:09] <chrisccoulson> jdstrand, and it doesn't get left around with firefox?
[22:11] <jdstrand> I don't think so, cause it is python-unit that is hanging cause a child process is still left (and firefox doesn't hang in pyunit), but I'll double check
[22:13] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: it does not get left around with firefox on jaunty
[22:13]  * jdstrand check hardy
[22:16] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: it does not get left around with firefox on hardy
[22:19] <chrisccoulson> jdstrand - ok, thanks. the other problem is fixed now :)
[22:20] <asac> chrisccoulson: wonder, did you manage to get mvo help on dist-upgrade testing with the new packages?
[22:21] <chrisccoulson> asac - mvo asked for the link to the PPA a few days ago to do some testing, but i'm not sure if he got round to it yet
[22:35] <chrisccoulson> jdstrand - i will upload totem as it is for now, and maybe investigate this other issue in the morning
[22:35] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: k, thanks
[22:37] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: I do think it needs to be fixed, cause we don't want to leave a bunch of processes laying around with resources getting lost, but if you aren't able to find a fix tomorrow, we can release note it saying that it will be fixed in SRU
[23:02] <gnomefreak> ha people from mozilla were thinking what i was about spending time on code-names rather than the project
[23:03] <gnomefreak> Miramar == tb3.2
[23:10] <chrisccoulson> jdstrand - epiphany doesn't shut down properly (NP_Shutdown is never called in the plugin)
[23:15] <BUGabundo> fta: http://www.stratus0s.org/
[23:15] <BUGabundo> eheh he hosts the isos in gdocs :D
[23:36] <ddecator> Mook_sb: it still built a -dbg, but maybe it won't continue unless we change that...i'll look it over later, thanks :)
[23:37] <Mook_sb> ddecator: it'll probably continue, it'll just be a release build pretending to be debug :)
[23:37] <Mook_sb> also; enable-debug isn't what you get in a -dbg package, gcc -g is
[23:37] <ddecator> oh...
[23:38] <Mook_sb> enable-debug is "lots of console spew, assertions, and other debug code that makes the app unbearably slow"
[23:40] <micahg> ddecator: I don't think we want --enable-debug in the dailies
[23:40] <ddecator> well there we go :)
[23:40] <Mook_sb> yeah, it's more useful for local debugging (where you build the app locally too)
[23:46] <micahg> chrisccoulson: I'm going to add a note to the firefox-stable PPA to use the mozilla-security PPA for now until 4.0 is released


[07:12] <bnaus> hello
[15:28] <ubu> hi
[15:30] <ubu> can i update now to 20.04 from 18.04 studio ? or is it preferable to wait july ?
[15:33] <ubu> i wanted to write "upgrade"
[15:40] <genii> Probably better to wait until the point release comes