[00:00] <JontheEchidna> that could be problematic
[00:07] <JontheEchidna> --with-kde uses pkg-kde-tools-0.5.2ubuntu1/debhelper/Debian/Debhelper/Buildsystem/kde.pm
[00:07] <JontheEchidna> looks like the rosetta magic needs porting to dh7
[00:10] <maco> Riddell: ok im coming
[00:10] <maco> to uds
[00:11] <maco> im still not sure about this hot tub thing
[00:11] <Riddell> maco: yay!
[00:11] <Riddell> nearest hot tub seems to be 4 miles away so you're safe
[00:11] <maco> oh ok
[00:12] <maco> how did you google the nearest hot tub?
[00:12] <Riddell> their website lists nearby spa facilities
[00:12] <maco> ah
[00:12] <Riddell> there's no mention of anything on site
[00:16]  * JontheEchidna goes off to do other things while dh_shlibdeps runs
[00:18] <Riddell> well I'm away for the next three days, keep merging and having fun
[00:18] <Riddell> I just posted on that "looking for input" thread on kde-devel, hopefully that won't blow up while I'm away :)
[00:18] <Riddell> qt and phonon uploaded
[00:29] <ScottK> seele: Yes
[00:34] <seele> it's really annoying, although it also made me realise that if you get multiple messages from the same application within a certain period of time, you dont need to show the 2nd to n messages, just the first one
[00:35] <seele> the auditory ping is all you need
[00:35] <seele> so say you send me 3 PM's within a few seconds of each other
[00:35] <seele> message one should have a ping + notification box
[00:35] <seele> message 2 and 3 should just have pings to let me know that you are still talking to me
[00:36] <seele> because knowing you are sending more than one message means that the conversation is important
[00:36] <seele> where if you were just sending me one message, you might have simply responded to a question, posted a link or some other mlp, or mentioned me in passing
[00:37] <seele> what would be really awesome is if we could detect desktop behavior
[00:37] <seele> so say you ping me, i switch from an app to the message, then immediately switch back to my original app
[00:37] <seele> that could be a clue that i'm not involved in the conversation and doing other work
[00:37] <seele> and so a "smart" system would forgo the visual notification and just ping me
[00:38] <seele> and after a while, if it notices i *really* dont care about what you have to say, forgo the pings too and just collect the messages in whatever queue/indicator
[00:38] <seele> hmmm
[00:38]  * seele is done brain dumping
[00:38] <seele> but the out of sync pings are a realy problem
[00:39] <seele> you start to wonder what the pings are about
[00:39] <seele> or why the messages are flashing with no ping
[00:39] <seele> and if the two are even related to each other
[00:42] <ScottK> Yep
[00:57] <Kano> hi, how to get rid of the kwin error message when you restart kdm while you are under kde 4.3 karmic
[00:58] <JontheEchidna> In short, there isn't a way. (I assume you're using nvidia)
[01:00] <Kano> no
[01:00] <Kano> i want to install 3d drivers in live mode
[01:00] <jjesse> evening
[01:00] <Kano> i tested fglrx
[01:02] <ScottK> shtylman: Pack ear plugs for UDS.
[01:03] <jjesse> why do you snore ScottK?
[01:03] <ScottK> shtylman: You will think rgreening is exaggerating about how much he snores.  He isn't.
[01:03] <jjesse> oh yeah i've heard stories about rgreening
[01:03] <ScottK> jjesse: rgreening.  I shared a room with last time.
[01:09] <claydoh> Riddell: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories/Kubuntu done, as well as fixing up the older pages as well
[01:09] <ScottK> shtylman: You're in luck.  I read the list wrong.  It's txwikinger that needs the ear plugs.
[01:41] <jefferai> seele: you don't happen to know how one disables the firewall on a *buntu box, do you?
[01:41] <jefferai> I figured it out a few months ago, but rebooted this server and now I can't figure it out again
[01:41] <jefferai> :-(
[01:41] <jefferai> manual says it uses ufw, but I don't even have that installed
[01:48] <ScottK> ufw isn't enabled by default anyway.
[01:52] <jefferai> right
[01:52] <jefferai> and whatever this is, it was enabled by default
[02:01] <ScottK> Then it's not something installed by default.
[02:01] <ScottK> What problem are you having.
[02:03] <jefferai> sure it is
[02:03] <jefferai> standard install of ubuntu server vm version
[02:04] <jefferai> jeos-vm
[02:04] <jefferai> or whatever it's called these days
[02:04] <jefferai> from the first bootup I had to do something to allow access in
[02:04] <jefferai> I just can't remember what
[02:04] <jefferai> everything's running inside -- I can e.g. telnet <IP_ADDRESS> 22, but I can't get in from outside on any port
[02:04] <jefferai> which sounds a lot like a firewall
[02:05] <ScottK> It does, but ufw is the only firewall and it's off by default. It's a bit odd.
[02:09] <jefferai> agreed...
[02:09] <ScottK> jefferai: #ubuntu-server is probably a better channel
[02:10] <jefferai> ah, thanks
[02:12] <txwikinger> Why do I need earplugs?
[02:12] <jjesse> because he snores
[02:12] <jjesse> soooooo loud
[02:12] <jjesse> rgreening that is
[02:13] <txwikinger> hehe
[02:13] <txwikinger> You don't know the Texas air.. It makes you so tired, you sleep anyway
[04:09] <ScottK> txwikinger2: You don't know how loud he snores.
[04:09] <txwikinger2> Well.. I will find out
[04:10] <ScottK> Yes.  You will.
[04:11] <txwikinger> I have been known to sleep through all kinds of stuff
[04:12]  * txwikinger wonders if he should start to help some merging work for lucid
[04:48] <shtylman> hahaha
[04:50] <shtylman> looks like Roderick is rooming with himself...
[06:28] <markey> http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,2845,2355459,00.asp
[06:28] <markey> kubuntu review
[06:36] <ScottK> So it's not entirely clear to me that my last mail to kubuntu-devel was entirely CoC compliant.  I'm reasonably certain I don't care.
[06:45] <tsimpson> it's not explicitly non-compliant, therefore I deem it compliant ;)
[06:46] <ScottK> Excellent
[06:47] <ScottK> I'm waiting for the reply that explains how qualified he is to have an opinion on something he's never used.
[06:47] <tsimpson> messages like the one you replied to is why I no longer read the kubuntu-users list any more
[06:47] <tsimpson> I'd just get too worked up and angry, and I'd just rather save the energy for other things
[06:49] <ScottK> Yep.  I don't read it anymore either.
[06:49] <ScottK> The only 'user' list I read is ubuntu-server and that's both users and developers.
[06:49] <ScottK> I guess I read devel-discuss too, but not in detail.
[06:50] <ScottK> markey: Thanks.  Not a bad review.
[06:50] <ScottK> ryanakca: ^^^ what about adding the review markey mentioned in the review section of the web site.
[06:52] <ScottK> If you do, make sure to link to the full version of the review (linked off that one)
[06:55] <markey> ah yes, you have this CoC :)
[06:55] <markey> it's just too tempting
[06:55] <markey> what would happen if I, theoretically of course, said "fuck" here
[06:56] <markey> :)
[06:56] <markey> not that I would ever do such a naughty thing
[06:56] <ScottK> Depends on if someone was annoyed.
[06:56] <ScottK> !language | markey
[06:56] <markey> rofl
[06:56] <ScottK> That's about the worst that would happen
[06:56] <tsimpson> there's nothing in the CoC about swearing
[06:56] <markey> ok, but that's actuall sane, deciding on a case-by-case basis
[06:56] <markey> we do it like that too
[06:57] <tsimpson> however the guidelines do disallow it
[06:57] <ScottK> There's separate rules for IRC.
[06:57] <markey> but people are invited to use all sorts of swear words on our channels, unless they are insulting someone (us, mostly)
[06:58] <tsimpson> there is an unwritten rule in IRC-land, that *-devel is self-governing
[07:03] <ScottK> OK, snarky message number two launched (motu-council list this time).
[08:06] <nhn> Hi guys. Not strictly Kubuntu related, but can someone tell my how a bug like this gets assigned low priority? It is a total showstopper for my SO's laptop. There is even a confirmed fix for it just lying around: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/418933
[08:26] <allee-k> nhn: not the right channel IMHO, try  #ubuntu-kernel if you can ping Andy Withcroft there.   I would argu with: a) regression b) patch available.   Don't fight the prio is wrong war ;)
[08:28] <nhn> ok, thanks. Looking in from the outside, a priority of "low" just strikes me as very odd even though int he end, if the bug gets fixed it does not matter much! :-)
[09:16] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: btw I only get one unreleased fix when diffing sp bzr to what we have in karmic
[09:24] <Tonio_> hi
[09:24] <Tonio_> I was asked by some users about plans for 4.3.3 and jaunty
[09:24] <Tonio_> is that in the run or canceled ?
[09:26] <apachelogger> was never planned
[09:27] <Riddell> hola
[09:33] <Riddell> markey: that kubuntu review is the first time I've seen anyone complain about adblock-by-default, it's almost like he has a vested interest :)
[09:44] <amichair> apachelogger, JontheEchidna, Riddell: is sp in bzr fixed? can I continue with bugfixing?
[09:44]  * apachelogger didnt see any issue
[09:48] <amichair> apachelogger: I co from bzr and it's not the code shipped in karmic but an older version
[09:48] <Riddell> amichair: from what I checked out yesterday there is an extra fix in bzr which hasn't been uploaded to ubuntu, which makes bzr more up to date than karmic
[09:48] <Riddell> bzr has software-properties (0.75.5) UNRELEASED
[09:48] <Riddell> karmic has 0.75.4
[09:48] <amichair> for example, the import key dialog shows gpg files. bzr version, like jaunty, doesn't
[09:50]  * apachelogger is wondering why rake on gentoo looks for the mysql socket in tmp -.-
[09:51] <amichair> the second tab is labeled 'third party software', like in jaunty, whereas in karmic it's 'other software'. etc...
[09:52] <amichair> or, I might be missing something :-)
[09:52] <amichair> (but I don't see what)
[09:53] <apachelogger> maybe your branch is all outdated? :P
[09:53] <apachelogger> bzr branch lp:software-properties
[09:54] <Riddell> amichair: diff -urN is your friend
[09:54] <amichair> apachelogger: it's the first time I ever used bzr, a fresh co
[09:56] <apachelogger> Riddell: diff -urNad is superior to diff -urN :P
[09:56] <apachelogger> so
[09:56] <apachelogger> how about using redmine for project management?
[09:56]  * apachelogger lacks organization, and feels like a chicken running in circles
[09:56] <apachelogger> a blue headed step chicken if you will
[09:56] <amichair> apachelogger: is that part of ur recursion ex?
[09:56] <apachelogger> recursion is all implemented
[09:57] <apachelogger> n^3 steps to ensure every field of a labyrinth gets visited
[09:59] <apachelogger> woah
[09:59]  * apachelogger runs off for analysis
[10:00] <amichair> hehe
[10:34] <markey> apachelogger: about redmine, that could even be interesting for replacing Buzilla in KDE
[10:34] <markey> I'm so fed up with it
[10:34] <markey> could spend all day with closing dupes
[10:41] <MelisU> markey: Can redmine close dupes for you??
[10:43] <Mamarok> Riddell: I just found a bug: when using the krunner in the Quicksand mode, typing Amarok it says "Amarok (KDE3, Audio Player)", which seems not so in Opensuse
[10:46] <markey> MelisU: I don't know. maybe?
[10:46] <markey> dupe detection is hard, but possible
[10:47] <ghostcube> anyone read about the mac file killing game ?
[10:47] <Mamarok> nope, link?
[10:48] <ghostcube> its only german one
[10:48] <ghostcube> http://www.nickles.de/c/n/gratisspiel-ballert-bei-mac-dateien-weg-8000.htm
[10:54] <MelisU> great idea ;) kde games needs one of those
[10:57] <ghostcube> :D
[10:58] <neversfelde> meh, koffice-data-kde4 tries to overwrite an icon, which is also in krita-kde4 1:2.0.2-2ubuntu3. Riddell told me to make koffice-data-kde4 replace krita-kde4 (<< 1:2.0.2-2ubuntu3) but that  does not work. I really do not know what to do next? :)
[10:59] <ghostcube> force the icon overwrite ?
[11:00] <ghostcube> or is it possible to remove krita before installing koffice
[11:00] <ghostcube> iam not so good in packaging
[11:02] <Riddell> neversfelde: replaces krita-kde4 (<< [new-koffice-version])
[11:03] <Riddell> neversfelde: use the version your are packaging now for the replaces
[11:03] <Riddell> Mamarok: quicksand mode?
[11:03] <neversfelde> Riddell: mhh, ok. I will try it. Thank you
[11:08] <dpm> Riddell, did you create any other blueprint for the Kubuntu translations session? I saw you renamed the desktop- one to kubuntu-, but it was still marked as superseded by the community- one:
[11:08] <dpm> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kubuntu-lucid-translations
[11:09] <dpm> so now the community one has been scheduled instead
[11:09] <Riddell> dpm: hmm, that sound be the other way around
[11:09] <Riddell> kubuntu-lucid-translations is the one I wanted
[11:09] <dpm> Riddell, yeah, that's why I'm asking
[11:11] <dpm> can you un-supersed it? Then I can supersede the community- one and ask jono to remove it from the community track
[11:11] <ghostcube> btw 4.3.3 works fine but still printer apllet is stressing peoples :)
[11:11] <Mamarok> Riddell: in the Krunner, you can change the mode it works, default is Command oriented, Task oriented is Quicksand
[11:13] <neversfelde> Mamarok: I cannot confirm your problem, here quicksand says "Amarok (Medienwiedergabe)"
[11:14] <Riddell> dpm: let me see how well this train internet works
[11:14] <dpm> ok
[11:16] <Riddell> dpm: superceded removed
[11:21] <dpm> Riddell, ok, marked the community- one as superseded. I'll add some notes to https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Specs/LucidTranslations. There's also a big red cross next to Sprints, so perhaps the blueprint will have to be re-targeted to Lucid
[11:23] <Mamarok> neversfelde: well, I have several apps that say "KDE3, description", so maybe the translation corrected that
[11:23]  * Mamarok goes making a screenshot
[11:23] <neversfelde> Mamarok: I'll have to finish my work and will test it with an english system after it
[11:26] <Mamarok> neversfelde: http://imagebin.ca/view/jO2mPRW.html
[11:30] <Riddell> rickspencer3: can you accept kubuntu-lucid-translations for uds-l?
[11:31] <Mamarok> neversfelde: wait, I suspect it to be due to me not having the Karmic Amarok installed, but using git
[11:47] <amichair> 3 good newses: first, I figured out the sp bzr deal... as it turns out, the bzr was indeed up to date, but the diff consistent entirely of the introduction of the bug I was seeing! which made it look like the reverse diff is a bugfix, and bzr is the one that's behind... sorry for all the confusion I caused!
[11:48] <amichair> second, my first kubuntu bugfix ever was applied by someone from the bug report! mazeltov to me!
[11:48] <amichair> third, considering the first - now I have another bug to fix, with zero research required!
[11:49] <Kottizen> Hello!
[11:49] <Kottizen> I've found a bug, but I don't know in which package.
[11:49] <Kottizen> Could I explain it here?
[11:52] <Riddell> Kottizen: go ahead
[11:52] <Riddell> amichair: congratulations!
[11:52] <Kottizen> Riddell: Oke
[11:54] <Kottizen> Riddell: I've tried to install a graphic driver for my video card. I clicked to "Hardware drivers" and then it searched. It found a driver from ATI/AMD, same as on Ubuntu before. But, when I clicked the button "Activate" nothing happend. The button got pressed down, and then released, but I got no message or nothing.
[11:56] <Riddell> Kottizen: that's a bug in jocket-kde which I think is already reported, you can search through the existing reports at bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/jockey and/or report a new one with the command "ubuntu-bug jockey-kde"
[11:56] <ryanakca> ScottK: I'll add it when I get back from school tonight
[11:56] <Riddell> it maybe just that you don't have a packge cache, try if apt-get update helps it
[11:56] <Kottizen> Okey, thank you. Is there any other way to install the driver? Like "apt-get" in the terminal?
[11:56] <Kottizen> Okey.
[11:57] <Kottizen> Updated. Do I need to restart?
[11:57] <Kottizen> WIIE
[11:57] <Kottizen> It works, thanks" :D
[11:59] <jussio1> Does jockey-kde not run apt-get update on start? and if it doesnt, why not?
[12:13] <Riddell> jussio1: no and it should
[12:13] <jussio1> Riddell: ok, is there a bug? if no, Ill go file one...
[12:13] <ryanakca> jussio1: looking in jockey/detection.py says it queries some remote servers about hwids... but I don't see anything about apt
[12:17] <ryanakca> Do we have any DDs in the room that could sponsor knmap (fixes a FTBFS, package split) to Debian (so that we can then merge/sync it back into Lucid)? It seems to be rather difficult to get it reviewed and sponsored...
[12:19] <apachelogger> markey: it should become kde's management interface :D
[12:20] <markey> :)
[12:22] <apachelogger> markey: take a look at the quelle logo http://diepresse.com/home/wirtschaft/economist/520003/index.do?_vl_backlink=/home/index.do
[12:23] <apachelogger> in the context of it being a german company with an austrian sub
[12:23] <markey> ROFL
[12:23] <apachelogger> :D
[12:23] <markey> that blue hand?
[12:23] <apachelogger> aye
[12:23] <markey> looks like the amarok logo, exchanged with a hand :p
[12:23] <markey> haha
[12:23] <apachelogger> right hand I might point out
[12:23] <apachelogger> in a very precise angle too
[12:24] <markey> gotta go jogging, bbl
[12:24] <jussio1> Riddell: ryanakca hrm, that bug seems to be around from as early as jaunty dev cycle. bug 357134
[12:25] <jussio1> maybe something needs to be addressed there.
[12:39] <apachelogger> hm
[12:39] <apachelogger> redmine is like the master method
[12:39] <apachelogger> it is superior to everything else
[12:40] <apachelogger> evne launchpad :P
[12:40] <apachelogger> but that is naturally the case since lp is pyware and redmine rubyware :P
[12:47] <neversfelde> Riddell: now koffice is making progress, I think I will finish it today.
[13:47] <apachelogger> yeah
[13:47] <apachelogger> so
[13:47] <apachelogger> I am using chrome
[13:48]  * JontheEchidna too
[13:48] <apachelogger> which does not allow javascript deactivation per page
[13:48] <apachelogger> so deactivating javascript leaves me with not being able to triage bugs and do stuff on the university website
[13:49] <apachelogger> since lp decided to abandon konqueror and ignore it being default in kubuntu I cant use that either
[13:49] <apachelogger> secrecy
[13:49] <apachelogger> most obvious keyword :D
[13:51] <apachelogger> I remember talking to dfaure about bug 381447
[13:52] <JontheEchidna> did he have any insight?
[13:52] <apachelogger> IIRC he agreed to remove the debug message all along so I can close the bug :P
[13:52] <JontheEchidna> oh, well we should have debug messages disabled by default in 4.3.1 and up or so
[13:52] <JontheEchidna> hence that kdebugdialog stuff that we have to do to get debug from our aps
[13:53] <apachelogger> it should have been disabled before as well :P
[13:53] <apachelogger> I know it was for 4.1, that is when I started using kdebugdialog at least
[13:54] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: also, I think that particular message is different because it does not get assigned to a bug domain or something, so it is unaffected by kdebugdialog anyway
[13:54] <apachelogger> good thing apachelogger was intelligent enough to post code references in that bug report -.-
[13:55]  * JontheEchidna wishes qt4-x11 would get through binary new soon
[13:55]  * JontheEchidna is crazy enough to run lucid :x
[13:55] <Sput> apachelogger: interesting that you guys like redmine so much... I'm still undecided, we use it, and I like its flexibility, but it misses features and some users like bitching about it
[13:55] <apachelogger> users always bitch
[13:55] <Sput> but then they prolly bitch regardless of the tracker in use
[13:56] <apachelogger> ALWAYS
[13:56] <apachelogger> Sput: pretty much so
[13:56] <apachelogger> Sput: redmine 0.9 is going to be a lot nicer too
[13:56] <Sput> so I'm just not sure how redmine compares to the others, because all I know is Mantis besides
[13:56] <Sput> hmmm.. time to switch branches then?
[13:57] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/KDE/kdelibs/kdecore/services/kservicefactory.cpp?r1=935291&r2=1018439
[13:57] <apachelogger> Sput: not sure if it is that stable for production use yet
[13:57] <Sput> meh we probably use trunk anyway :)
[13:58] <Sput> so what are the killer features in your opinion?
[13:59] <apachelogger> plugins :D
[13:59] <apachelogger> Sput: I suppose the integration of management and issue tracking
[13:59] <Sput> ok
[13:59] <Sput> yeah I like how flexibel one can define a workflow
[13:59] <apachelogger> in launchpad you sometimes notice a lot that the parts are developed largely independent of each other
[14:00] <apachelogger> you have to jump through a couple of hoops to get from a translation bug to the affected translations and stuff
[14:00] <Sput> I see
[14:00] <apachelogger> interaction between blueprints (kinda like feature tracking) and bugs is close to none
[14:00] <Sput> mmmh... maybe I'll remembering updating our redmine to something current
[14:00] <Sput> trunk still seems to be 0.8
[14:00] <apachelogger> though really, the blueprints stuff is quite the stub
[14:01] <apachelogger> Sput: http://www.redmine.org/wiki/redmine/Download that seems to suggest stable 0.8 is in a seperate branch
[14:02] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: bug 289174
[14:02] <apachelogger> what to do?
[14:02] <apachelogger> leave it alone?
[14:02] <JontheEchidna> if we can't resolve it this release close it I guess
[14:03] <Sput> nice, there's a FAQ plugin
[14:03] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: we can't
[14:03] <apachelogger> I am not sure we want to either
[14:04] <Sput> oooh and a Vote plugin
[14:05] <Sput> and still no captchas :P
[14:06] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: then we should close as can'tfix, except we ironically can't do that
[14:07] <apachelogger> cant fix as cant fix
[14:08] <apachelogger> with redmine you can :P
[14:08] <apachelogger> new status -> name = Can't fix; Issue closed [x]; Default value [ ] -> Create
[14:09] <apachelogger> hrrr
[14:09] <apachelogger> kdesudo --desktop /usr/share/applications/kde4/firefox.desktop -- kubuntu-firefox-installer -i
[14:09]  * apachelogger is quite the leet haxx0r
[14:09] <apachelogger> Tonio_: if you get round, kdesudo could use a release and upload to lucid
[14:10] <apachelogger> otherwise I can't upload nu kubuntu firefox instaler :)
[14:17] <Sput> apachelogger: now make redmine upstream implement proper captchas!
[14:17] <apachelogger> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/~apachelogger/+assignedbugs
[14:17] <apachelogger> that is how we like it
[14:17] <apachelogger> Sput: dont know them :P
[14:17] <apachelogger> Tonio_ might
[14:19] <apachelogger> ulysses__: "I can't include the output of 'apt-cache policy kde4libs', because apt couldn't find this package." ... kde4libs is a source package, one of its binary packages would be kdelibs5 :)
[14:20] <falktx> aynone can tell me what is the fastest way to create man pages?
[14:21] <falktx> are there tools for that?
[14:21] <falktx> or just need to write the full thing manually?
[14:21] <apachelogger> for kde apps
[14:21] <apachelogger> install kdesdk-scripts
[14:21] <falktx> i use kde
[14:21] <apachelogger> kdemangen.pl /usr/bin/amarok > amarok.1
[14:21] <apachelogger> falktx: only works for kde apps
[14:22] <apachelogger> doesnt matter what desktop environment
[14:22] <apachelogger> but the script parses KDE's standard --help output, so it only works for KDE apps
[14:22] <ScottK> "<jussio1> Does jockey-kde not run apt-get update on start? and if it doesnt, why not?" <-- Doesn't help if you are depending on the wifi drivers jockey installs to get a network.
[14:22] <apachelogger> and even there not always completely correct
[14:22] <falktx> so no such tools?
[14:22] <apachelogger> if that is what I said
[14:23] <apachelogger> though I do not think that I said that
[14:23] <apachelogger> *shrug*
[14:23] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: where do kernel bugs go?
[14:23] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: linux source package
[14:23] <apachelogger> well, which one :)
[14:23] <JontheEchidna> "linux"
[14:23] <apachelogger> well
[14:23] <apachelogger> yeah
[14:23] <apachelogger> try to move a bug there
[14:24] <apachelogger> i.e. search for it first
[14:24] <apachelogger> all hail the launchpad limitations, it's like a way too small hat that launchpad thing :P
[14:24] <apachelogger> anyhow ulysses__'s crashes on restore from supsend seem to either be hardware related or the kernel eat memory addresses
[14:26] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: thanks, linux seemed to have worked
[14:26] <JontheEchidna> \o/
[14:26] <apachelogger> as long as you dont search for it :P
[14:26] <JontheEchidna> yeah, punt & forget
[14:26] <apachelogger> too many crashes in kde4libs
[14:27] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: bug 440361 should stream up, I suppose?
[14:27] <JontheEchidna> it was up in the 80s with tons of crashes from crappy python plasmoids from kde-look
[14:28] <apachelogger> crappy python
[14:28]  * apachelogger giggles
[14:28] <JontheEchidna> I guess, but without a testcase there's not much upstream will do
[14:28] <apachelogger> wasnt the idea that script plasmoids cant crash plasma? ;)
[14:28] <JontheEchidna> but as long as it's in their bugtracker and not ours...
[14:28]  * apachelogger woudl wish for sandboxing
[14:28] <JontheEchidna> well, it doesn't actually crash plsama
[14:28] <JontheEchidna> but apport detects all python exceptions as crashes
[14:28] <apachelogger> :)
[14:29] <apachelogger> interesting concept
[14:29] <apachelogger> probably makes sense at some level
[14:29] <apachelogger> Oo
[14:29] <apachelogger> kdebase 162
[14:29] <apachelogger> wth
[14:29] <ScottK> Python exceptions that aren't caught are crashes.
[14:30] <ScottK> Sounds like the problem isn't catching an exception, but pointing the blame at the wrong package.
[14:30] <apachelogger> python itself is an unchaught exception from my POV
[14:30] <JontheEchidna> the python plasmoids in question are from kde-look, so they have no package
[14:31] <JontheEchidna> == closed faster than... something from texas or something
[14:33] <apachelogger> can not compute bug 465604
[14:33] <apachelogger> cnc exception caught
[14:33] <apachelogger> restarting
[14:33] <ScottK> Yesterday I got a bug on clamav that was from some PPA, so I not only invalid'ed the bug, but hunted down the PPA owner and asked them to remove clamav from their PPA.   Might be good to just go through and prioritize for when the lucid bug triage policy kicks in
[14:40] <apachelogger> when does it kick in?
[14:40] <apachelogger> now?
[14:41] <JontheEchidna> when the spec gets approved I guess
[14:42]  * apachelogger doubts that
[14:42] <apachelogger> who would approve the spec?
[14:43] <JontheEchidna> Riddell is the set spec approver for that spec
[14:43] <JontheEchidna> this also ties in with what we end up doing with apport crash detection, so it would be best to not enact new policy before we can ensure that apport will be disabled
[14:44] <JontheEchidna> especially if part of the spec is making the public aware of new policy
[14:44] <JontheEchidna> maybe I worry too much?
[14:44] <apachelogger> yes
[14:44] <apachelogger> because
[14:45] <apachelogger> technically what you just said overrides the kubuntu council
[14:45] <apachelogger> which, AFAIK has the last word on decisions of such large impact
[14:45] <apachelogger> so even when jr approves the spec it is not any more backed up than it is now :P
[14:47] <JontheEchidna> I suppose that's correct
[14:47] <JontheEchidna> I guess this will wait till the post-UDS meeting?
[14:48] <apachelogger> as usual
[14:49] <apachelogger> who does do the work?
[14:49] <JontheEchidna> us
[14:49] <apachelogger> so, who gets to decide?
[14:49] <JontheEchidna> us
[14:49] <JontheEchidna> I suppose
[14:49] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: srsly, if you, as prime bug triage, can't decide upon how you want to work anymore I would be so outta here
[14:51]  * JontheEchidna really, really wishes more people would look at the bug tracker once in a while
[14:53] <JontheEchidna> take bug 446180 for example
[14:53] <JontheEchidna> 1 bazillion duplicates, I've even mentioned it more than once here
[14:53] <JontheEchidna> but nobody takes care of it
[14:53] <JontheEchidna> because nobody looks at the bugs in the bugtracker
[14:55] <JontheEchidna> the problem is most likely that whatever package has that upgrade script lacks a dependency on python-kde4, but I have my hands full handling the other 3,000 bugs
[14:55] <apachelogger> mhhh
[14:55] <apachelogger> python
[14:55] <apachelogger> when will you learn
[14:56] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: I wonder how that is possible considering loads and loads of crap depends on python though
[14:56] <JontheEchidna> ubuntu users, primarily
[14:56] <JontheEchidna> install k3b for example
[14:56] <JontheEchidna> pulls in kdebase-workspace-bin since it has policykit
[14:56] <JontheEchidna> but not python-kde4
[14:57] <JontheEchidna> -> failure when kconf_update runs
[14:57] <apachelogger> well
[14:57] <apachelogger> gdebi, install-package, plasma-addons, software-properties, languages-selector-kde4
[14:58] <apachelogger> to run into that issue one must not have any kubuntu tool
[14:58] <JontheEchidna> ^none of which are installed by ubuntu users installing k3b
[14:58] <apachelogger> sensible
[14:58] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: I'm looking at 446180
[14:59] <JontheEchidna> thanks
[14:59] <apachelogger> bug 455034
[14:59] <apachelogger> maybe we should remove the info panel from kds?
[14:59] <apachelogger> though I think that breaks UI consistency and doesnt qualify for SRU?
[15:00]  * JontheEchidna would wait to see how things are in 4.4 before k-d-s'ing it
[15:01] <apachelogger> well
[15:01] <apachelogger> we kds the info panel IIRC
[15:01] <apachelogger> upstream does not have it on by default
[15:01] <JontheEchidna> oh, hmm
[15:01] <apachelogger> so we might be at fault here
[15:01] <apachelogger> as ever so often
[15:02] <apachelogger> how I do hate bug reports and their incredible unimportance compared to real problems
[15:02] <jwisser> What does kds mean?
[15:03] <JontheEchidna> kubuntu-default-settings
[15:03] <jwisser> Ah.
[15:03] <jwisser> Thanks.
[15:03] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: ok, let's do it. Engage lucid bug triage mode!
[15:04] <JontheEchidna> and.. punch it!
[15:04]  * JontheEchidna sips the hot earl grey
[15:06]  * apachelogger runs around in circles
[15:06] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: are you going to let everyone know?
[15:07] <apachelogger> kubuntu-devel, ubuntu-devel, blog about it, ubuntu bug squad, ...
[15:07]  * txwikinger watches apachelogger runs around circles
[15:07] <JontheEchidna> oh yeah, we were going to do that
[15:09] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Fundamental problem with 446180.  kdebase-workspace-data describes itself as "shared data files for the KDE 4 base workspace module", but it also ships arch all code like the file that caused that crash.
[15:10] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: do we have a standard reply when closing because bug is already upstreameD?
[15:12] <apachelogger> "launching juk and amarok in konsole vs. xterm"
[15:12] <apachelogger> closing => useless title
[15:13] <JontheEchidna> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kubuntu/Bugs/Responses#Upstream Bugs of "Low" Importance
[15:14] <JontheEchidna> if this keeps up I'll have blogged almost every day this week
[15:14] <apachelogger> BAHAAAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAE
[15:14] <apachelogger> bug b
[15:14] <apachelogger> bug 298940
[15:14] <apachelogger> who freaking cares about freaking vnc
[15:15] <apachelogger> why is that crap even around
[15:15] <apachelogger> even rdp is superior
[15:19]  * JontheEchidna fixed up the responses a bit
[15:19] <apachelogger> bug 449604
[15:20] <apachelogger> you know
[15:20] <JontheEchidna> I... I cannot control my hand...
[15:20] <apachelogger> I can only do so much bug triage until I go all crazy because of the crap I get to read
[15:20] <JontheEchidna> must... remove.. trash...
[15:20] <apachelogger> Also, consider flagging this as a security issue, since people tend to rely on the trashcan as a way of removing sensitive information from their systems. Dolphin and other programs will continue using Del to send files to the trashcan, even when the user has no apparent way to empty it.
[15:20] <apachelogger> sure, like it is impossible to recover data from a crashed shuttle HDD ...
[15:20] <apachelogger> oh hold on, it is possible
[15:20] <aleite> Hello guys...
[15:20] <apachelogger> G, it must be sure easy to recover data that was only deleted
[15:21] <aleite> a typical scenario is asked on #amarok...
[15:21] <JontheEchidna> physical access to computer == boned anyways
[15:21] <aleite> Is when a user installs/runs amarok from gnome...
[15:21] <JontheEchidna> any security measures save thermite only delay things
[15:22] <aleite> They usually have problems about codec and audio.. which is typically because of the wrong backend chosen
[15:22] <aleite> Don't you think these things should be done automatically? Even if someone installs a kde app from gnome?
[15:23] <aleite> Like choose pulseaudio and gstreamer backend on phonon, for instance?
[15:23] <ScottK> aleite: Yes, it should be done automatically.
[15:23] <aleite> I just helped a user on #amarok because of this.. ubuntu 9.10
[15:24] <aleite> He was "really" lost.. : )
[15:24] <ScottK> apachelogger: Security team has a "No, this isn't really a security issue" standard answer
[15:26] <aleite> Scottk: Is any work on this issue planned to be done as part of this project timelord?
[15:26] <ScottK> aleite: It's too early to tell.  Contributions are welcome.
[15:26] <aleite> you know.. many people install/run amarok from gnome (well, amarok is just the best.. :) )
[15:28] <apachelogger> where oh where do people get bugs like bug 442000 get from
[15:28] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: valid issue at one point, though I cannot repro anymore
[15:28] <apachelogger> I was using KDE 4 when it was not even carrying a 4.x version numba and never ever saw such crap
[15:29] <apachelogger> aleite: project timelord does not worry about specifics
[15:29] <apachelogger> people do
[15:29] <apachelogger> projects never d
[15:29] <apachelogger> o
[15:30] <aleite> apachelogger: but it would be a "specific", all program on kde uses phonon.. it would be a matter of configuring phonon correctly so kde apps can run smoothly on gnome
[15:31] <aleite> it is not "amarok specific"
[15:31] <aleite> but KDE specific...
[15:31] <JontheEchidna> basically pulseaudio and gstreamer are in the defautl ubuntu install. not much we can do there
[15:31] <JontheEchidna> we can't really do anything about phonon's abysmal support for the two
[15:32] <aleite> JontheEchidna: Well, that's sad.. you know.. because when a user goes to ubuntu sotfware center.. many of them doesn't know the diference of kde/gnome.. for them they are all apps..
[15:33] <JontheEchidna> yeah, it's sad. But there's just not much we can do. We're stuck between a rock and a hard place
[15:33] <aleite> I would really like to help in this spec.. but lack of technical knowledge
[15:34] <aleite> Can't kubuntu use gstreamer backend as default like ubuntu? would be a step...
[15:34] <apachelogger> Oo
[15:34] <apachelogger> right
[15:34] <ScottK> aleite: phonon gstreamer back end is in a rather unfortunate state of crashiness IIRC.
[15:34] <apachelogger> so first Amarok devs come and say "dont ever use gstreamer it will kill babies and eat your apples"
[15:34] <JontheEchidna> that would make kubuntu equally broken
[15:34] <apachelogger> and now e should use gstreamer
[15:34]  * apachelogger blinks
[15:34] <apachelogger> bug bug 373260
[15:34] <JontheEchidna> gstreamer is the problem here
[15:35] <apachelogger> right
[15:35] <apachelogger> I am outta
[15:35] <apachelogger> here
[15:35] <aleite> I am not a amarok dev.. :)
[15:35] <apachelogger> how can we be talking about sounds if .xmodmap does not get loaded
[15:35] <apachelogger> can you imagine
[15:35] <apachelogger> !!!
[15:35] <aleite> just a suggestion ...
[15:36] <ScottK> aleite: We're glad to have people come and make suggestions.
[15:36] <aleite> or, maybe when you run amarok on ubuntu, suggests to install libxine1-all-plugins.. the way it's done on kubuntu.. doesn't ubuntu/kubuntu use the "same" notification system?
[15:37] <maco> mine seems to work... i have caps set to be esc in my .Xmodmap, and it is doing so...
[15:37] <aleite> Scottk: Well, I came here because the user was really lost..
[15:38] <ScottK> aleite: Perhaps write up a "If you are using Amarok in Gnome and you have no sound, here's what you do" tutorial for now.
[15:38] <ScottK> At least it would make helping users easier.
[15:38] <ScottK> Some might even find it via google.
[15:38] <aleite> Yes.. would be a great help
[15:39] <maco> if you want to post it in tutorials section of ubuntuforums.org i'll approve it
[15:39] <maco> <-- moderator
[15:41] <ScottK> aleite: ^^^
[15:41] <aleite> well guys, sorry if I might have interrupted you in something important... but don't take my suggestions as an amarok dev's one... since I am not an amarok dev
[15:41] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Fixed in bar and proposed SRU uploaded.
[15:41] <JontheEchidna> \o/
[15:41] <ScottK> aleite: There's a lot going on.  I think you know enough to write this tutorial.
[15:42] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: BTW, it was caused by a script we added, but we didn't added the depends.
[15:42] <JontheEchidna> yeah, that's what I suspected
[15:43] <aleite> Scottk: Well, in fact... is there any kubuntu wiki or something where I could contribute this way?
[15:44] <ScottK> aleite: maco suggested ubuntuforums.org.  There is also the communty section of help.ubuntu.com.
[15:54] <amichair> quick python style q: http://paste.ubuntu.com/311619/
[15:54] <aleite> well.. I'll make my subscription first
[16:01]  * JontheEchidna goes to get a hair cut
[16:02] <amichair> JontheEchidna: get'em all cut!
[16:30] <markey> http://community.zdnet.co.uk/blog/0,1000000567,10014384o-2000498448b,00.htm
[16:30] <markey> another review
[16:38] <ScottK> ryanakca: ^^^ too.
[16:38] <ScottK> markey: Thanks.
[17:15] <neversfelde> i someone able to test koffice 2.0.91 from the staging pa
[17:15] <neversfelde> s/pa/ppa
[17:46] <ScottK> Good thing nixternal is on vacation.
[17:46] <ScottK> sabdfl open week talk and no "blue headed step-child" questions this time.
[18:09] <rgreening> haha
[18:16] <neversfelde> do we have some information about the merging process in the wiki?
[18:56] <Mamarok> got a user in the ML asking if KDE 4.3.3 will be backported to Jaunty...
[18:57] <Mamarok> any plans for that?
[18:57] <ScottK> Mamarok: No.
[19:01] <Mamarok> good :)
[19:04] <maco> heyyyy so do any of you have any idea how this ibus thing is supposed to work?
[19:04] <tsimpson> are kdenetwork, kdegraphics and kdeedu going to be updated to 4.3.3?
[19:05] <maco> scim worked...havent made sense of skim or ibus yet though
[19:08] <ScottK> tsimpson: Where?
[19:09] <ScottK> maco: I vaguely recall a new ibus package.  I also recall reading KDE didn't support it yet.  Not sure which is correct.
[19:09] <tsimpson> ScottK: in the backports ppa
[19:09] <maco> ScottK: someone in here got it working. i just dont know whom.
[19:09] <maco> well i dont know about "new"
[19:09] <maco> but someone had ibus working in kubuntu a few months ago
[19:09] <tsimpson> there's only 4.3.2 in Jaunty (nothing for karmic)
[19:09] <ScottK> tsimpson: I'm sure it will.  Not sure who's working on 4.3.3 packaging.
[19:10] <ScottK> tsimpson: For Jaunty there won't be 4.3.3.
[19:10] <ScottK> (I don't think)
[19:11] <tsimpson> I know there probably won't for Jaunty, but we have an announcement that KDE 4.3.3 is out, and parts of it are missing
[19:14] <ScottK> Riddell: ^^^
[19:14]  * ScottK didn't work on it, so doesn't know.
[19:36] <Peace-> hi
[19:36] <Peace-> wow :) nobody
[19:37] <jjesse> hi
[19:37] <jjesse> we are just delayed :)
[19:37] <Peace-> i read on kubuntu.org about some project to boost kubuntu
[19:37] <jjesse> project timelord
[19:37] <Peace-> yes
[19:37] <Peace-> i ahve made some stuff for kde service menu
[19:38] <Peace-> and stuff like that
[19:43] <Peace-> and i would like know why the dolphin's configuration file  is so weird
[19:43] <Peace-> it's not confortable
[19:44] <Peace-> up button for example shoulb be displaied
[19:44] <Peace-> mplayerthumbs should be installed by default
[19:45] <Peace-> iso mount service menu should be installed
[19:45] <Peace-> some stuff like dragon-kpart or kmplayer-kpart should be installed by default
[19:45] <neversfelde> There is a kdegraphics 4:4.3.3-0ubuntu1~ppa1 in the backports-ppa, but indeed no kdenetwork and kdeedu, wether in staging nor in backports. Does someone know the reason, why it wasn't copied over?
[19:48] <neversfelde> mhh, no package was copied, they were all uploaded again
[19:57] <ScottK> neversfelde: Please fix
[19:58] <neversfelde> currently testing with staging, if there are any regressions
[20:00] <neversfelde> strange
[20:00] <neversfelde> kdenetwork 4:4.3.3-0ubuntu1~ppa1 in karmic (a different source with the same version is published in the destination archive)
[20:00] <neversfelde> but Launchpad cannot find this package
[21:39] <JontheEchidna> http://paste.ubuntu.com/311864/
[21:39] <JontheEchidna> maybe the debugging symbols weren't stripped?
[21:42] <JontheEchidna> oh, the dbg package is just 100 MB bigger
[21:42] <JontheEchidna> anyway, lucid is about to get interesting
[21:47] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: would you mind retrying phonon-backends on all archs except ia64, armel and powerpc?
[22:50] <neversfelde> tsimpson, ScottK: kdenetwork/kdeedu problem should be fixed
[22:54] <tsimpson> !info kopete kubuntu-backports
[22:54] <tsimpson> yep :)
[22:57] <neversfelde> :)
[22:58] <neversfelde> !info gwenview kubuntu-backports
[22:58] <neversfelde> cool
[23:00] <bbigras> nice !!
[23:05] <bbigras> thanks for the 4.3.3 packages
[23:29] <amichair> quick python style question, which is preferred? http://paste.ubuntu.com/311619/
[23:31] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Sure thing.
[23:34] <JontheEchidna> amichair: the latter, in my opinion
[23:36] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: thanks
[23:38] <amichair> JontheEchidna: hmmm... it appears that way in 4 different places in software-properties... that feels wrong. I thought of extracting a common utility method,maybe extract a commong method, but if it can be just as clearly written in 1 line anyway... what do u think?
[23:38] <Lex79> JontheEchidna: what's wrong in qt ?
[23:39] <ScottK> Done
[23:40] <JontheEchidna> amichair: yeah, maybe that is too many lines for something that simple
[23:40] <JontheEchidna> I don't think anyone would mind if you used that style throughout, as long as things were consistent
[23:40] <JontheEchidna> Lex79: nothing, just the -dbg package is a bit bigger in 4.6
[23:41] <Lex79> oh ok
[23:41] <JontheEchidna> 115 MB bigger, installed size :D
[23:42] <ScottK> Tell pitti to get a bigger hard drive for the retracers.
[23:42] <Lex79> lol
[23:43] <amichair> JontheEchidna: thanks for advice :-)
[23:45] <JontheEchidna> I *think* that there was more than one -dbg package from the source package in the past.. maybe debian combined them
[23:48] <Lex79> JontheEchidna: yes, I drop our custom dbg packages, now we use dh_strip, see line 253 here:
[23:49] <Lex79> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/qt/ubuntu/annotate/head%3A/debian/rules
[23:49] <Lex79> ;)
[23:51] <Lex79> libqt4-dev-dbg is not present in qt 4.6
[23:52] <JontheEchidna> blah, what's wrong? http://launchpadlibrarian.net/35276454/buildlog_ubuntu-lucid-i386.phonon-backends_4:4.3.1-5ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[23:54] <Lex79> uhm weird
[23:54] <JontheEchidna> libqt4-multimedia is perfectly installable on my machine
[23:54] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Gotta figure out why libqt4-multimedia is not installable.
[23:56] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Look at how long ago the qt4-x11 build for i386 got built.
[23:56] <ScottK> It may have been before the last publisher run and only partly published.
[23:57] <JontheEchidna> 20 hours ago
[23:57] <ScottK> OK.
[23:57] <JontheEchidna> I suppose I'll try installing it in my pbuilder
[23:58] <ScottK> Just did.
[23:58] <ScottK> It's installable
[23:58] <JontheEchidna> Same here.
[23:59] <ScottK> The most recent publisher run should have finished at a quarter of.  I'm going to retry it again, just to see.


[12:20] <CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r4265 kubuntu/getting-help/C/getting-help.xml: booged abstract outside of articleinfo
[12:21] <CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r4266 kubuntu/ (18 files in 18 dirs): updated kubuntu translation files
[12:42] <CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r4267 kubuntu/about-kubuntu/desktop/ (3 files in 2 dirs): fixed icon in about-kubuntu desktop file and regen pot file
[12:44] <CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r4268 ubuntu/add-applications/C/add-applications.xml: Applied Milo's patch to use more appropriate tags
[12:45] <CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r4269 ubuntu/accessibility/ (. C/ C/accessibility.xml): Added accessibility topic
[12:47] <CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r4270 ubuntu/config-desktop/C/config-desktop.xml: Added topics on installing other Ubuntu variant desktops
[12:49] <CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r4271 ubuntu/files-and-docs/C/ (disks.xml files-and-docs.xml): Remove disks.xml, move content into new hardware.xml, change link in files-and-docs.xml
[01:01] <CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r4272 ubuntu/hardware/ (. C/ C/hardware.xml): Added new hardware section
[03:01] <jjesse> nixternal: ping
[03:02] <jjesse> nixternal: question on kde-menus-C.ent should Adept Manager Manage Packages have the - in it
[03:02] <jjesse> nixternal: to look like Adept Manager - Manage Pacakges as the menu reads?
[03:03] <jjesse> nixternal: because there are several missing the "-"
[03:08] <j1mc> hi all.  when i "make" the xubuntu docs, where does the index.html file get created?  anyone know the default path?
[03:08] <nixternal> jjesse: ya, make it look like KMenu reads
[03:08] <nixternal> j1mc: build/xubuntu/$$doc/C/index.html
[03:08] <nixternal> would you like me to create a Makefile for you guys?
[03:08] <jjesse> nixternal: cool working on it right now :)
[03:09] <nixternal> jjesse: I uploaded the latest kubuntu-docs package today, so we are ahead of schedule pretty much
[03:10] <nixternal> from now until next week, work out some kinks, and release 1 more package before final
[03:10] <j1mc> thanks, nixternal
[03:10] <j1mc> let me check that out.
[03:10] <nixternal> ya, you guys need your own Makefile, it seems you are using the Ubuntu one
[03:11] <nixternal> then again, the Makefile is only to build out the html, which you guys don't do iirc...Yelp parses xml on the fly and I believe that new doc viewer you guys are working on does the same
[03:13] <j1mc> nixternal: i'm not sure if the new doc viewer will be ready for gutsy
[03:13] <j1mc> the docs seem to build ok.
[03:13] <nixternal> if it isn't, then you guys will stick with Yelp then
[03:13] <j1mc> no, we would stick with firefox.
[03:13] <nixternal> and I have no clue about Yelp, and would like to keep it that way :)
[03:13] <j1mc> firefox displays our docs now
[03:13] <nixternal> ahh, so you would then need to build out the html then
[03:13] <j1mc> yes
[03:14] <nixternal> well, I can work on fixing your makefile if you would like me to
[03:14] <j1mc> the make file outputted the about-ubuntu file, but not an about-xubuntu file.
[03:14] <nixternal> do you guys have all of the docs updated in the repo?
[03:14] <j1mc> that would be awesome if you could.
[03:14] <nixternal> I haven't seen any Xubuntu patches for a while
[03:14] <nixternal> and I would prefer not to receive 1 huge patch
[03:14] <j1mc> i have two patches to submit.  one is a one-liner
[03:15] <j1mc> but i couldn't get it to validate until tonight.  kevin is here helping out.
[03:15] <nixternal> ahh, just go ahead and head out into the main directory when you create a patch then, and you can either link me to it, or email it to me
[03:15] <j1mc> "head out into the main directory"?
[03:15] <nixternal> Kevin has no clue what he is doing, he not only uses Foresight, but he also uses Gnome :)
[03:15] <nixternal> trunk/
[03:15] <j1mc> no, no... another guy who was at chi-ubuntu
[03:16] <j1mc> he's been using docbook since 99 or something
[03:16] <nixternal> ahhh, I haven't met him then
[03:16] <j1mc> he's from weaton
[03:16] <nixternal> out by me then
[03:17] <nixternal> so you have someone who has been using docbook for a while...so that means I need to watch out for deprecated tags
[03:17] <nixternal> and if I see an xreflabel anywhere in there, someone will get hurt :)
[03:18] <j1mc> ok.  he hasn't really helped me with too much tonight
[03:18] <j1mc> just helped me fix that error
[03:19] <nixternal> cool
[04:14] <jjesse> taking doc book work back to doc channel :)
[04:14] <nixternal> hehe
[04:14] <nixternal> nobody else is talking in devel anyways :)
[04:14] <jjesse> there are entities in a section called <!-- open office --> and also entities in a section called <!-- KDE Menu Entries -->
[04:15] <jjesse> is this done on purpsoe?
[04:15] <nixternal> I think we are pretty good...maybe a couple of fixes here or there..but we should be done ahead of time
[04:15] <nixternal> <!-- blah --> isn't an entity..that is a comment
[04:15] <jjesse> i understand that :)
[04:15] <nixternal> oh
[04:15] <nixternal> you mean under the comments
[04:16] <nixternal> ya, if I could read correctly then I would have made you look totally stupid :)  instead I look totally stupid :)
[04:16] <jjesse> there is an entity called menuoooimpress and menuooop
[04:16] <jjesse> for impress
[04:16] <jjesse> same for all of the open office products
[04:16] <nixternal> get rid of the bigger one
[04:16] <jjesse> will that break docs?
[04:16] <nixternal> or the menuooop since that makes no sense
[04:17] <nixternal> grep menu office.xml
[04:17] <nixternal> see what it is using
[04:17] <jjesse> menuoop follows the ppater for menuooow for writer, menuoooc for calc, etc
[04:17] <nixternal> ppater? hahah
[04:17] <jjesse> patern :)
[04:17] <nixternal> I had to look at that a couple of times
[04:17] <jjesse> must be the bailieys and the coffee kicking in
[04:17] <nixternal> haha, nice
[04:18] <nixternal> but none of those are used in the office.xml
[04:18] <jjesse> menuooimpress is
[04:18] <nixternal> ya, but the menuoop and such aren't
[04:18] <jjesse> ok deleting those
[04:19] <nixternal> none of the menuooo ones are used in any doc
[04:19] <jjesse> removed them
[04:19] <nixternal> you can delete them, and then run the validate-all.sh script in the kubuntu directory
[04:21] <jjesse> wiill do
[04:23] <jjesse> danng tigers are losing to the yankees
[04:27] <nixternal> teeheeehheee
[04:37] <CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: jjesse * r4273 kubuntu/libs/kde-menus-C.ent: lotzs of changes to make the entites reflect the k menu...
[04:42] <nixternal> you go!
[04:43] <jjesse> thanks
[04:43] <jjesse> on to the next doc
[04:43] <jjesse> add-applications.xml
[04:43] <nixternal> go go go
[04:49] <CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: jjesse * r4274 kubuntu/add-applications/C/add-applications.xml: minor change -- still reading this doc, but its bed time
[04:51] <nixternal> haha
[05:32] <posingaspopular> hey all, im trying to find 'desktop guide' documentation for edgy online. can anyone help me find a link?
[05:38] <posingaspopular> i checked out the latest docs in SVN tonight, but when i do cd ubuntu-docs/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/desktopguide.xml, i can't find anything. in fact i cant find anything about the desktop guide after ubuntu-docs/ubuntu for the desktop guide
[06:04] <robotgeek> posingaspopular: for edgy?
[06:05] <posingaspopular> yes please robotgeek
[06:07] <robotgeek> posingaspopular: https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/branches/edgy/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/
[06:08] <posingaspopular> robotgeek: thanks. how can i check these out in subversion?
[06:08] <robotgeek> posingaspopular: it was probably removed for feisty
[06:08] <posingaspopular> yea it was, because i couldn't find it for fesity
[06:08] <posingaspopular> and i did a checkout today and couldn't find anything
[06:08] <robotgeek> posingaspopular: create directory, "svn co https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/branches/edgy/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/"
[06:09] <robotgeek> posingaspopular: however, please donot commit to this branch (if you have commit rights)
[06:09] <posingaspopular> robotgeek: im kind of bad at command line. mkdir svn co https:// etc?
[06:10] <posingaspopular> i don't have commit rights, either way
[06:10] <robotgeek> posingaspopular: no, create a location where you want do download it.
[06:10] <posingaspopular> ......
[06:10] <robotgeek> say, mkdir ~/ubuntu-doc
[06:10] <robotgeek> cd ubuntu-doc
[06:10] <robotgeek> svn co https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/branches/edgy/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/
[10:46] <CIA-32> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r4275 ubuntu/ (hardware/C/hardware.xml libs/gnome-menus-C.ent): Added power management and input device sections to hardware topic


 Samsung is releasing a Galaxy device that runs Windows http://phonedb.net/index.php?m=device&id=14250&c=samsung_sm-w737_galaxy_book_2_td-lte_am
 That's a first.  Galaxy is codename for Samsung Android
 The Galaxy Book 1 ran Windows .. but was x86/64. It looks like this is a ARM
 I have one
 Runs windows 10 in mode s
 Can remove the mode s


[00:11] <zastaph> Maybe https://help.ubuntu.com/community/KVM/Networking needs to be updated .. because the CAP_NET_ADMIN section refers to Sep 2006
[00:58] <sw0rdfish> hey
[00:58] <pmatulis> zastaph: please proceed
[00:59] <zastaph> I'm just a user of KVM
[00:59] <njacinto> quit
[01:04] <qman__> that's where ubuntu community docs come from, users
[01:05] <zastaph> yep and then I'm a kvm n00b too :)
[03:34] <deviantgeek> Ok, is there any guides to getting ftp working on oneric?
[03:35] <TJRana> Um...
[03:35] <TJRana> What's oneric?
[03:35] <deviantgeek> 11.10
[03:35] <deviantgeek> ubuntu server
[03:36] <TJRana> Oh Ubuntu 11.10 Oneiric Ocelot
[03:36] <deviantgeek> yeah
[03:36] <TJRana> These names… geez
[03:37] <TJRana> I'm no expert, but I managed to set up ftp for my server, which I then got rid of and had to start all over.
[03:37] <TJRana> I'll try to help.
[03:37] <TJRana> I don't think there's a guide, but do you use a program to access your server? Like Dreamweaver or something?
[03:38] <deviantgeek> well, its currently running on ESXi (virtulization)
[03:38] <qman__> FTP should never be used
[03:38] <deviantgeek> if that matters
[03:38] <qman__> SFTP is superior in all ways
[03:38] <deviantgeek> qman__: then how do I get sftp working
[03:38] <deviantgeek> does it come with openssh?
[03:38] <qman__> apt-get install openssh-server
[03:39] <qman__> the default sshd configuration allows all users standard SFTP access to anywhere on the system they have permission
[03:39] <TJRana> yeah, go and log onto your server
[03:39] <TJRana> type in "sudo apt-get install openssh-server"
[03:39] <qman__> if you need more control, you can configure chroots in the config
[03:39] <TJRana> what qman__ said
[03:41] <deviantgeek> what is the default sftp port?
[03:41] <qman__> 22
[03:41] <patdk-lap> it' basically kindof ftp tunneled over ssh
[03:41] <qman__> it's actually nothing like FTP on a technical level
[03:41] <patdk-lap> ya
[03:41] <qman__> the command syntax and general purpose are the only similarities
[03:41] <patdk-lap> but only way to explain it easily
[03:42] <patdk-lap> it's unlike scp though, that works at the command/shell level
[03:42] <qman__> and for good reason, FTP is, was, and always will be a stupid protocol
[03:43] <deviantgeek> I currently am using root to login to the SSH, I need full filesystem access though, any way I can do that without root?
[03:43] <deviantgeek> *make ssh sftp
[03:43] <qman__> why do you need full access?
[03:44] <qman__> it's much easier to solve that problem than safely allow full access
[03:44] <deviantgeek> well, so I can edit every aspect of the server from sftp
[03:44] <qman__> use ssh for that
[03:44] <deviantgeek> ok
[03:44] <qman__> shell in, do your editing directly on the server
[03:44] <qman__> SFTP is for transferring files
[03:45] <deviantgeek> qman__: ok
[03:45] <deviantgeek> what about getting xfce installed?
[03:46] <qman__> don't know why you'd want to do that
[03:46] <qman__> but you'd do it with apt-get
[03:46] <deviantgeek> (just makes moving files around easier, I dislike doing everything through ssh)
[03:47] <qman__> just FYI, as a general rule GUIs and the associated packages aren't supported in this channel, since this is the server channel
[03:47] <TJRana> deviantgeek, so you want some type of GUI instead of looking at lines of code?
[03:47] <qman__> you'll get more help on that subject in the desktop channels
[03:47] <deviantgeek> well, I do use ssh, but if I need to move lots of files, the gui helps
[03:47] <deviantgeek> (Probably because I need to learn more linux commands)
[03:48] <qman__> this
[03:48] <patdk-lap> heh, I normally drop to a shell to move files around
[03:48] <TJRana> deviantgeek, not when you have some type of FTP or SFTP and a program
[03:48] <patdk-lap> gui is so ugly at it
[03:48] <qman__> same
[03:48] <qman__> file operations are easier from the shell
[03:48] <deviantgeek> sftp works too.
[03:48] <deviantgeek> qman__: I download everything from shell
[03:48] <TJRana> deviantgeek, you can use Dreamweaver, and it's great for moving lots of files
[03:48] <deviantgeek> wget is awesome
[03:48] <qman__> I do most of my work in the shell, only reason I have a GUI is for easier web browsing and such
[03:49] <patdk-lap> I use gui to manage my xterms :)
[03:49] <TJRana> deviantgeek, I use Dreamweaver all the time and it's a great and powerful tool
[03:49] <deviantgeek> Dreamweaver looks good
[03:49] <TJRana> deviantgeek, do you have dreamweaver?
[03:49] <deviantgeek> yeah
[03:49] <TJRana> deviantgeek, then use it! lol
[03:49] <deviantgeek> I use filezilla for all my sftp
[03:49] <deviantgeek> too lazy to set up dreamweaver
[03:50] <qman__> I usually use scp
[03:50] <patdk-lap> I normally use rsync
[03:50] <TJRana> same difference
[03:51] <TJRana> it doesn't really matter, you still get the point
[03:51] <patdk-lap> unison?
[03:51] <TJRana> deviantgeek, what's the point of putting a GUI on the server when you have something like filezilla?
[03:51] <qman__> precisely, GUIs belong on desktops, not servers
[03:52] <qman__> with the exception of LTSP and similar
[03:52] <TJRana> yeah, putting a GUI just slows the server down
[03:52] <TJRana> uses more memory and whatnot
[03:53] <Resistance> anyone able to help me diagnose fcgiwrap / spawn-fcgi when trying to run the apcupsd cgi scripts (for internet monitoring of the apcupsd status data): https://pastebin.com/tBTPSeSg
[03:54] <patdk-lap> hmm? cgi isn't fcgi compatable
[03:55] <Resistance> patdk-lap:  give me a working nginx & cgi setup then
[03:55] <patdk-lap> heh?
[03:55] <patdk-lap> cgi is so straight forward, there really isn't any setup needed
[03:56] <Resistance> patdk-lap:  okay, you're no help...
[03:56] <Resistance> patdk-lap:  nginx has no ootb support for serving CGI content
[03:56] <patdk-lap> nope, I don't do nginx
[03:56] <Resistance> their examples and their wiki said to use fastcgi / fcgiwrap to serve cgi content
[03:56] <Resistance> *grumbles something about downsides to nginx*
[03:56] <patdk-lap> well, why not use a webserver that supports what you mean?
[03:57] <patdk-lap> I don't get why people attempt to shove square box's though round holes
[03:57] <Resistance> system resources are the issue
[03:57] <Resistance> apache's too mem-intensive
[03:57] <patdk-lap> that is 2, out of atleast 100 webservers
[03:58] <Resistance> *yawn* cba to try *all* of them
[03:58] <Resistance> *goes back to testing package backports*
[03:59] <qman__> you have to be dealing with a huge volume for that to matter
[03:59] <qman__> I've been using apache for years and never had a problem with its resource usage
[04:01] <Resistance> qman__:  did i mention this is a 128MB RAM VM?
[04:01] <Resistance> :/
[04:01] <patdk-lap> unless you really messup the apache config, it should only need 20megs of ram, or so
[04:02] <qman__> yeah
[04:02] <patdk-lap> much more than nginx at 3megs or whatever it is
[04:02] <Resistance> there's not even 10 megs available atm :/
[04:02] <Resistance> anyway its not super important, i've got other things to be fixing/testing anyways
[04:02] <patdk-lap> I would say, install lighttpd
[04:04] <qman__> personally I'd just get more RAM
[04:05] <qman__> not worth the hassle
[04:05] <TJRana> I'm going to leave now. I might be back later. Bye everyone. And Merry Christmas!!!!!
[04:05] <qman__> don't get me wrong, I appreciate efficient software
[04:05] <qman__> but time spent working on it is valuable too
[04:06] <patdk-lap> heh
[04:06] <patdk-lap> dunno, I've been running lighttpd since 2006
[04:06] <patdk-lap> switch off between it and apache often, depending on needs
[04:07] <qman__> I've just been using apache since forever, and I don't know anything else
[04:08] <qman__> even if it was a couple bucks a month on a hosted VPS, I'd pay it, not worth the time learning a whole new package to solve a problem I already know how to solve
[04:08] <patdk-lap> for me, defently a performance issue
[04:08] <patdk-lap> atleast one place I switched it too
[04:09] <qman__> on the other hand, if it's a genuine performance problem, it'd be worth looking into
[04:09] <patdk-lap> something in apache kept going nuts and using 400mb ram, randomly
[04:09] <patdk-lap> but normally unless there is something I specifically need apache for, I use lighttpd instead
[07:04] <TJRana> Hello, now I am stuck setting up ubuntu. I wanted to make a DNS Server so I am using the following website for a step-by-step tutorial: http://www.server-world.info/en/note?os=Ubuntu_11.04&p=dns&f=1 The only problem is I don't know what my global IP address is in brackets. I do know my global IP adress but not the one in brackets. And what is my private IP adress? and what would it look like in brackets?
[07:04] <TJRana>  Thank you.
[07:04] <twb> Are you using 11.04?
[07:04] <TJRana> no I'm using 11.10
[07:05] <twb> Then why are you reading documentation for 11.04?
[07:05] <TJRana> I had to compromise, and I was hoping the code would be similar so there would be little to no difference
[07:05] <twb> Have you tried the 11.10 server guide?
[07:05] <TJRana> and there aren't many tutorials out there… the server guide?
[07:06] <twb> https://help.ubuntu.com/11.10/serverguide/C/
[07:06] <twb> It's mentioned in the /topic
[07:06] <twb> (That's the thing at the top of the screen, that you're supposed to read before commenting)
[07:06] <TJRana> oh that… one…
[07:07] <TJRana> I'll take another look and see what I can do.
[07:07] <twb> Of course if you have read that and are still having problems, then we can talk abut it
[07:22] <TJRana> Hi um, I have a question. How do I find the IP Address of my ISP's DNS servers?
[07:22] <TJRana> *IP addresses
[07:22] <twb> Call your ISP's tech support
[07:23] <twb> If you have working internet elsewhere, google for "<ISP name> nameserver" or something
[07:23] <TJRana> okay
[07:23] <twb> There's no form of in-band discover of nameservers out on the internet
[07:24] <twb> (DNSSD/MDNS, but that doesn't normally propagate across routers.)
[07:29] <TJRana> okay so I got more information
[07:29] <TJRana> ISP : Optimum Online
[07:29] <TJRana> Host : ool-44c5ee43.dyn.optonline.net
[07:29] <TJRana> That's all I know
[07:30] <twb> 18:22 <twb> Call your ISP's tech support
[07:32] <TJRana> I have another question
[07:32] <TJRana> See on the following page: https://help.ubuntu.com/11.10/serverguide/C/dns-configuration.html it says that
[07:32] <TJRana> "The DNS configuration files are stored in the /etc/bind directory. The primary configuration file is /etc/bind/named.conf."
[07:33] <TJRana> Now, there are probably changes made to those configuration files… so how do I restore the default files?
[07:34] <twb> purge and install the package
[07:34] <twb> And learn etckeeper and git so you can avoid that next time
[07:35] <TJRana> okay
[07:36] <twb> Why do you want a DNS server
[07:37] <TJRana> um……..............
[07:37] <TJRana> wait, what does a DNS server do again?
[07:38] <twb> Serves a zone to DNS clients.
[07:39] <TJRana> um… Okay, so I used to use a free hosting server and I thought it would be more efficient if I had my own server, so I wouldn't have limitations to a bunch of stuff
[07:39] <twb> If it's an authoritative nameserver.  If it's a caching resolver, then it basically acts as a proxy for name resolution requests between clients and authoritative servers (or other resolvers).
[07:40] <twb> Typically a home network will have a caching resolver in the router, and at the ISP, and that will talk to the various authoritative servers out on the internet.
[07:40] <TJRana> so I thought maybe I needed to do a bunch of stuff to the server… like NTP, SSH, DNS, DHCP, Virtualization, NFS, NIS, LDAP, WEB, database, FTP, MAIL, Samba, Proxy, Desktop env to the server
[07:41] <twb> Unless you own a domain like dick.head.name or example.net, you do not need an authoritative nameserver.
[07:41] <TJRana> oh
[07:41] <TJRana> so a dns server is unnecessary?
[07:41] <twb> A network should have at least one caching resolver, but your ISP typically provides this for you.
[07:41] <TJRana> I own a domain. It's tjrana.com
[07:44] <TJRana> So since I own a domain, it's necessary?
[07:49] <twb> Or you could just pay someone like zoneedit to host it for ou
[07:49] <twb> Which for one domain will be $0/mo
[07:51] <TJRana> okay I went onto zoneedit.com and signed up
[07:53] <TJRana> what do I do next?
[07:55] <TJRana> What is a zone name?
[08:03] <TJRana> I keep on getting the same error, I got it before.
[08:04] <TJRana> http://paste.ubuntu.com/783147/
[08:06] <TJRana> http://pastebin.com/TFSL4tsz
[08:11] <TJRana> Hello?
[08:11] <TJRana> twb are you there?
[08:21] <arooni-mobile> for some reason i'm kinda locked out of my server... i could ssh into before rebooting... now i see: https://gist.github.com/1520745 ... when i try to connect.  i didnt change ssh or anything as far as i know
[09:14] <lalagirl> is anyone there?
[13:16] <linxeh> Is there a recommended RADIUS server package to use on Ubuntu LTS? Is FreeRADIUS the way to go?
[15:18] <arooni-mobile> hi folks; for some stupid reason i can't ssh into my server; so the server support people gave me access to KVM.  how can i use KVM in orerder to recover my server and be able to SSH into it again?  running ubuntu 11.10.  i have an admin account and a root account but I believe i have disabled root login via ssh
[15:19] <raubvogel> arooni-mobile: can you vpn into your server's console?
[15:21] <arooni-mobile> raubvogel, this is what i have access to now: http://global.avocent.com/us/olh/dsr/v_3.7.1/global/en/index.html
[15:21] <arooni-mobile> not sur eif thats different than kvm
[15:21] <raubvogel> Oh
[15:22] <raubvogel> so by KVM you mean the switch, not the emulator :)
[15:22] <StevenR> arooni-mobile: can you login to the server using the KVM ?
[15:23] <arooni-mobile> im not sure how to use the switch software i have now to connect ot the server
[15:23] <arooni-mobile> any suggestions?
[15:23] <raubvogel> arooni-mobile: Take a look under "The Video Viewer->Launching a KVM Session"
[15:26] <raubvogel> In http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/oneiric/man5/nss_ldap.5.html they mention some features require schema  mapping  support. How to find out if the libnss-ldap package has that?
[16:11] <arooni-mobile> hi folks; for some stupid reason i cant ssh to my server:  https://gist.github.com/1521495 ... no idea what to do now.
[16:22] <SpamapS> arooni-mobile: your key may be in the wrong format, ssh-keygen can convert it
[16:23] <SpamapS> arooni-mobile: man ssh-keygen
[16:25] <arooni-mobile> SpamapS, key on the side trying to connect?
[16:32] <qman__> you're not supposed to include the ----BEGIN---- -----END---- lines
[16:32] <qman__> but yeah, it could be totally wrong
[16:34] <qman__> take that back, id_rsa does have those
[16:34] <qman__> thinking of authorized_keys, which has a one key per line format
[16:39] <raubvogel> arooni-mobile did you try to ssh -vvv and watch the messages?
[16:47] <arooni-mobile> i have done that yes
[16:47] <arooni-mobile> this is sooo weird
[16:47] <arooni-mobile> everything was setup on the server
[16:47] <arooni-mobile> and alli did was reboot it to test it
[16:47] <arooni-mobile> waiting on a kvm recovery session
[16:47] <arooni-mobile> dedicated server support people claim they can ssh with same creds
[17:20] <arooni-mobile__> hi folks;  i'm trying to ssh into my server; but when i use the correct username
[17:20] <arooni-mobile__> nothing happens
[17:33] <arooni-mobile> re-setting up my ssh config.  is there any problem with putting the SSH port at 22222 ?
[19:03] <JoshuaP> How do I keep the SSH MOTD from updating itself?
[19:04] <smw> JoshuaP, I think it is a cron job.
[19:04] <smw> JoshuaP, it uses /etc/motd.d or something like that, let me check
[19:05] <JoshuaP> k
[19:06] <smw> /etc/update-motd.d/ controls it
[19:06] <smw> you may want to leave it and just change the footer
[19:06] <smw> that is what I do
[19:08] <JoshuaP> Okay
[19:10] <JoshuaP> Does that make the MOTD not update?
[19:21] <rbasak> I think /etc/motd is a symlink and if you replace it with a normal file then it won't auto-update. IIRC. I may be wrong.
[19:25] <JoshuaP> When I put my own text in there, it earases.
[19:29] <rbasak> Have you replaced the symlink with a normal file?
[19:44] <JoshuaP> How do I set write permissions of a file to a user?
[23:15] <koolhead17> hi all
[23:17] <Warp4> hi
[23:18] <koolhead17> supp Warp4
[23:18] <Warp4> not much
[23:18] <Warp4> just sitting on the channel in case i or anyone else needs help :)
[23:19] <koolhead17> Warp4, great. ^^


[01:33] <ShroudedCloud> Hey, can anyone here help me with the date-time indicator? It seems to be broadcasting a time about a full minute behind what XChat is giving me.
[01:37] <deltab> maybe this? https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-datetime/+bug/581608
[01:37] <ShroudedCloud> Ah, yes, that seem to be is, thanks.
[01:38] <deltab> does it have an option to display seconds?
[01:39] <ShroudedCloud> XChat does, not the indicator (that I've found)
[17:27] <jcastro> apachelogger: you were the one looking for sound indicator info right?
[17:27]  * apachelogger is all headachy
[17:27] <apachelogger> jcastro: soundmenu, if that is the same thing
[17:27] <jcastro> it's that booze!
[17:27] <jcastro> yeah
[17:27] <apachelogger> ^^
[17:27] <jcastro> https://launchpad.net/~indicator-sound-developers
[17:27] <apachelogger> just wanted to check up on whether there has been discussion going on with KDE
[17:28] <jcastro> that's where the mailing list will be (he just set it up like a day or so ago)
[17:28] <jcastro> I'm not sure who conor has talked to yet, but I think it'd be great to start the conversation like, asap
[17:28]  * apachelogger tried to do that, not sure where it went though
[17:28] <jcastro> apachelogger: how about I do this, I'll send an intro mail?
[17:28] <jcastro> and CC you?
[17:29] <apachelogger> jcastro: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kubuntu-devel/2010-May/004413.html
[17:29] <apachelogger> should also have gone to the ayatana list
[17:29]  * apachelogger finds the implementation proposal in there a very good one
[17:30] <jcastro> ok, I'll rally all this up
[17:31] <apachelogger> kthx :)
[17:31] <jcastro> hmm, that p.p.s concerns me
[17:32] <jcastro> afaict all the documentation we've written attributes KDE correctly.
[17:35] <apachelogger> I am not upto date on whom to attribute for what regarding the statusnotifier spec, but I must agree that writing the kind of pages /SoundMenu belongs to in a way focused on Ubuntu as a platform on its own is not the way to get KDE motivated in giving input
[17:35] <apachelogger> that has also been mentioned when we discussed the proposal at the KDE Multimedia sprint a couple of weeks ago
[17:35]  * jcastro nods


[17:26] <posix4e> How hard is it to port something from X11 to mir
[17:29] <alan_g> it depends on the something
[17:29] <RAOF> Short answer: it depends.
[17:29] <RAOF> posix4e: *Mostly* it depends on: Are you using GTK or Qt (or, indeed, SDL)?
[17:30] <RAOF> If the answer to that question is “yes”, then porting to Mir is roughly equivalent to “try running it”.
[17:30] <posix4e> i'm looking at servo
[17:30] <posix4e> it's the new firefox in rust
[17:30] <posix4e> https://github.com/servo/servo
[17:31] <posix4e> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/KrtAb4Ib
[18:25] <RAOF> posix4e: Oh, yeah. It doesn't use a toolkit, so will need to be actually ported.
[18:25] <posix4e> RAOF: that probably makes more sense for something like a webbrowser anyway
[18:25] <posix4e> anything i can look at to get started?
[18:26] <RAOF> posix4e: Acutally, does servo use X11 at all?
[18:26] <RAOF> IIUC it's the rendering engine, not the frontend?
[18:26] <posix4e> RAOF: indeed
[18:26] <posix4e> but it has a frontend
[18:27] <posix4e> which is some new version of something from firefox
[18:27] <posix4e> hence my original question about people porting firefox
[18:27] <posix4e> Thanks for being helpful btw
[18:27] <posix4e> I know this is a weird train of thought, ubuntu and mozilla being mortal enemies and all
[18:27] <RAOF> Ah, right.
[18:27] <RAOF> ???
[18:28] <RAOF> So, the way to start would be... let me think...
[18:29] <posix4e> RAOF: kidding about the enemies thing, but i think they hook up to opengl
[18:29] <RAOF> Heh. One option would be to create a chroot without any X11 libraries, install Rust in there, and try running “cargo build” :)
[18:29] <posix4e> so it shouldn't be bad right?
[18:29] <RAOF> Indeed.
[18:29] <RAOF> Well, I guess it depends if they hook up to GLX or EGL.
[18:30] <posix4e> *nod
[18:30] <RAOF> GLX would require more effort, because it's intrinsically tied to X.
[18:30] <RAOF> If they use EGL it would basically be a matter of passing a different type in (a MirConnection rather than a Display, a MirSurface rather than a Window) and everything else would work without effort.
[18:31] <posix4e> so basically the android servo uses egl
[18:32] <posix4e> that's probably what we want anyway for the tablet
[18:32] <RAOF> Yup.
[18:32] <RAOF> So, basically I'd guess what you need to do is grep for XOpenDisplay, and replace the things that start with that codepath. :)
[18:34] <posix4e> neat
[18:35] <posix4e> what do i do to get things into the marketplace
[18:35] <posix4e> actually
[18:35] <posix4e> i'll bug ubuntu-touch for the rest of my queries
[18:35] <posix4e> You guys rock!
[18:35] <posix4e> huh
[18:35] <posix4e> logs.glob.uno/?c=mozilla%23servo&s=13+May+2015&e=13+May+2015&h=mir#c211813
[18:41] <RAOF> Yeah, dmabuf solves their texture sharing problems.
[18:41] <RAOF> *If* they can get the relevant fd out of the libEGL, of course :)
[18:44] <posix4e> mwhaha
[18:48] <chrisccoulson> posix4e, are we going to have a servo-powered web browser on Ubuntu phone?
[18:48] <chrisccoulson> That would be awesome
[18:49] <chrisccoulson> no pressure ;)
[18:49] <posix4e> I am thinking about it
[18:49] <posix4e> doesn't look like it's that bad
[18:49] <chrisccoulson> hey RAOF, isn't it the weekend for you already?
[19:04] <RAOF> chrisccoulson: Not in Dallas, no.
[19:04] <RAOF> Hah! IRC bouncer resync.
[19:04] <chrisccoulson> RAOF, you're not in the part of the world that I thought you were ;)


[12:41] <tony-smlr> SMLR is about to go live! SMLR E226 (2/12/2017) Video:  Video http://youtu.be/nvzkvSSFK8U Audio: http://www.podcastdetroit.com/how-to-listen/listen-to-studio-3/
[14:19] <cmaloney> morning
[14:41] <rick_h> morning
[14:57] <cmaloney> Off to grocery-shop. :) BBIAB>
[23:00] <jrwren> anyone use Sonerezh, Koel, or Groove Basin? I'm leaning toward the first, but will gladly use whatever someone else does so we can pair on OSS improvements if we think of any ;)
[23:21] <cmaloney> I'm not familiar with any of those


[00:16] <a_muva> every time I login, my phone display is at min. brightness. I have to go to settings->battery to change it. How to fix it? Or  should I file a bug?  Where?
[00:18] <popey> a_muva: https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-power/+filebug
[00:18] <popey> IMO
[00:35] <Elleo> does the ubuntu-sdk actually support cross-compiling for arm at the moment?
[00:37] <Elleo> all I can see is ways to build things natively
[00:37] <Elleo> it's possible my qtcreator setup is a bit iffy though (had to clear my user's config to get the ubuntu stuff working, due to left over nokia things)
[00:39] <Elleo> oh, I see, it expects to build on the device
[00:40] <Elleo> guess I'll have to flash my phone before I can go further
[06:18] <Mirv> Click 0.4.11 released for 12.04/12.10/13.04 via the PPA
[09:09] <nik90> popey: can we already start testing out trusty phone images?
[09:10] <nik90> I am running r101 atm
[09:13] <popey> nik90: yes, trusty-proposed has an image which i have on my device
[09:19] <nik90> popey: who is sil2100 in the landing spreadsheet?
[09:19] <popey> Łukasz Zemczak
[09:19] <nik90> popey: I see landing task 267 which is about EDS. Wanted to discuss with sil2100 about the landing comment
[09:19] <nik90> irc nick
[09:19] <nik90> ?
[09:19] <popey> that is his irc nick
[09:20] <popey> sil2100
[09:20] <nik90> ah okay
[09:20] <nik90> thnx
[11:20] <nerochiaro> zsombi: tmoenicke: is it a known issue that wen the OSK becomes visible (or the screen rotates while the OSK is visible) the TextArea that has focus will receive several onTextChanged events ?
[11:21] <zsombi> nerochiaro: wow... not heard of that till now
[11:21] <zsombi> nerochiaro: tmoenicke: seems that OSK gives 'em all then...
[11:22] <nerochiaro> zsombi: tmoenicke: i'm sending in a bug + test case, reported both against OSK and ubuntu-ui-toolkit. it's quite bad for notepad.
[11:31] <nerochiaro> zsombi: tmoenicke: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-keyboard/+bug/1243164 please confirm
[11:31] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1243164 in Ubuntu UI Toolkit "TextArea generates onTextChanged events when OSK is displayed or screen is rotated" [Undecided,New]
[12:01] <tmoenicke> nerochiaro: no, didnt know about this
[12:01] <tmoenicke> nerochiaro: thanks
[12:02] <nerochiaro> tmoenicke: any chance you could test and confirm ?
[12:11] <tmoenicke> nerochiaro: i will check it
[12:27] <nerochiaro> zsombi: is there any way to know what height inside of a TextArea the cursor is ?
[12:28] <nerochiaro> zsombi: i'm trying to figure out a way to make sure that if we have a TextArea in a ListView item, when they cursor moves out of the screen we can scroll the list to keep it in view
[12:29] <zsombi> nerochiaro: huhh? scroll the list?
[12:31] <nerochiaro> zsombi: yeah. say for example in notepad when i type too much text into a note, it expands out of the screen. i want to be able to have the list scroll so that the user can keep typing without having to scroll the list manually
[12:32] <zsombi> I see... the cursor height is font.pixelSize + 3DP
[12:32] <nerochiaro> zsombi: yeah but i don't know where it is
[12:32] <nerochiaro> zsombi: how can i find out ?
[12:33] <zsombi> you mean where the cursor is?
[12:33] <nerochiaro> zsombi: how far away from the top of the TextArea it is
[12:33] <nerochiaro> zsombi: or whatever other way i can know if the user is typing into something he can no longer see, really
[12:36] <zsombi> nerochiaro cursorPosition gives you the position of the cursor within the text, but that's not good for you. positionToRectangle() gives you the QRect the cursor is in. you can use that
[12:36] <nerochiaro> zsombi: ok, let me have a look at that
[12:37] <nerochiaro> zsombi: also, is there a way to tell to a ListView to scroll to an item so that the bottom of the item is in view ? I know you can use ListView.Contain to say that you want as much as possible of the item into view, but it counts from the top
[12:38] <zsombi> nerochiaro: no, they don't have anything for that
[12:38] <nerochiaro> zsombi: so i should basically ask it to scroll with Contain and then add to the contentY the difference in height
[12:39] <zsombi> nerochiaro: yep, but be careful with the contentY (don't forget to use originY too!)
[12:40] <nerochiaro> zsombi: always su originY to whatver value i want to set contentY to ?
[12:40] <zsombi> yep
[12:40] <nerochiaro> ok
[12:50] <Elleo> is there no way to make a Click package depend on an ubuntu package?
[12:51] <Elleo> Ubuntu Touch seems to have PyQt5 packaged and in its repositories but it's not installed by default :/
[12:52] <Elleo> it'd seem silly to have to bundle all of PyQt5 into a click package when it's already available as a shared module
[12:53] <nerochiaro> Elleo: i think a main point of click packages is that they don't have dependencies
[12:53] <Elleo> that's really annoying :/
[12:54] <Elleo> to have the packages [4~so near, yet so far
[12:58] <Elleo> I'm guessing the permissions system around click packages would stop my application from calling apt-get itself?
[12:58] <nerochiaro> Elleo: i don't know but I have a feeling you're right
[12:58] <Elleo> or calling some dbus request to the package manager
[12:59] <Elleo> I guess I'll just have to make some hideous monster of a package that has all the PyQt5 libs bundled into :/
[12:59] <WebbyIT> Elleo, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Specifications/ApplicationConfinement
[13:00] <Elleo> I noticed the Ubuntu QtCreator plugin's packaging page says that packaging is only available for QML applications; I assume that's just a limitation of the plugin at this point, not a fundemental problem creating more general click packages?
[13:00] <Elleo> WebbyIT: ah thanks, was having trouble googling for click permissions
[13:01] <Elleo> click isn't the most google friendly name ;)
[13:02] <WebbyIT> lol
[13:02] <Elleo> "An application install helper will be developed that provides a D-Bus API so that AppArmor can mediate access to it. The URI must specify a URL into the app store. When the user clicks on a link to install an app, the browser will give the application install helper the URI and it will launch the app installer so the user can install the app like normal. In this manner, the user then has a contextual prompt (the app installer). The applicatio
[13:04] <Elleo> alternatively who do I lobby to get PyQt5 installed as part of the base image? :P
[13:10] <popey> Elleo: I'd bring it up on the ubuntu-phone mailing list
[13:10] <Elleo> popey: okay, well do, thanks
[13:10] <Elleo> will*
[13:15] <WebbyIT> hei popey, I met at university puskin, he wants to start to collaborate. I gave him some instructions, can you address him? :)
[13:17] <WebbyIT> dpm, mhall119 ^ :)
[13:20] <mhall119> hi WebbyIT, hi Elleo
[13:22] <WebbyIT> hi mhall119 :) puskin is new here, shall you address him please?
[13:22] <puskin> hi :)
[13:23] <Elleo> mhall119: heya
[13:23] <mhall119> what can I do for you Elleo ?
[13:24] <Elleo> err, nothing? I think WebbyIT was trying to get your attention for puskin rather than me ;)
[13:25] <WebbyIT> right :)
[13:25] <mhall119> oh, sorry, hello puskin
[13:25]  * mhall119 hasn't had enough coffee this morning
[13:25] <puskin> ahah hello ;)
[13:26] <puskin> WebbyIT this morning told me about develop ubuntu touch & co.
[13:26] <mhall119> cool, are you interested in being a part of it?
[13:28] <puskin> sure! but i havn't enouch knowledge of javascript? i can learn it ;)
[13:28] <puskin> enough*
[13:43] <mhall119> yeah, javascript is easy to learn
[13:43] <ceruleancity> sup guys
[13:43] <mhall119> hi ceruleancity
[13:43] <ceruleancity> I came here to see if anyone had any info on ubuntu 13.10 and pangox libs
[13:44] <ceruleancity> I can't find anything in the release notes about it
[13:44] <ceruleancity> anybody still use pango in any of their apps?
[13:45] <puskin> ok so? for starting could i learn javascript?
[13:52] <ceruleancity> what are you trying to do puskin ?
[13:57] <puskin> i'm trying to help the develop of appclications in ubuntu touch ;)
[14:03] <mhall119> puskin: nice, have you tried following the online tutorial?
[14:05] <mhall119> puskin: http://developer.ubuntu.com/apps/qml/overview/ has high-level information about QML and how it's used to make Ubuntu apps
[14:05] <mhall119> there are links on the left to a tutorial, API documentation, and some "How to" recipes in the cookbook
[14:07] <puskin> perfect ;) i'll look soon ;)
[14:51] <Elleo> got libspotify working on my nexus, now to see if I can port all of meespot :)
[15:37] <hero_biz> hi guys
[15:38] <hero_biz> i have a funny and strange problem.
[15:38] <hero_biz> i have initialized a pthread_mutex_t with this command:
[15:38] <hero_biz> pthread_mutex_init(&(ctx->time_mutex), NULL);
[15:39] <hero_biz> but all my application thread are locked at:
[15:39] <hero_biz> pthread_mutex_lock(&(manager->time_mutex)); // (manager==ctx)
[15:39] <hero_biz> without allowing any thread to enter...
[15:39] <hero_biz> any idea what is happeneing?
[15:48] <cesar_bo> Hello devs, I have successfully implement OAuth Authorization with Ubuntu One to use it with a web application, it works great! I can create volumes, get info, upload, etc
[15:48] <cesar_bo> But I can't share a folder using the web api. Anyone have an idea how to do this using OAuth?
[15:49] <cesar_bo> Until now I have no clues, I read about SyncDaemonTool, but it will need that I have a syncdaemon running for every authorization token I have. I post this question in askubuntu  http://askubuntu.com/questions/363841/how-to-share-a-folder-using-the-ubuntu-one-web-api
[15:50] <cesar_bo> I will really appreciate any solution for this, I'm really close to finish this
[15:52] <AskUbuntu> How to share a folder using the Ubuntu One Web API | http://askubuntu.com/q/363841
[18:14] <aquarius> If I run an app from the Ubuntu SDK IDE on my phone, can I see its console output or similar somehow?
[18:22] <popey> beuno: saucybacon no longer runs on device. i am seeing apport error in dmesg..
[18:23] <popey> [31092.501932] type=1400 audit(1382465912.130:154): apparmor="STATUS" operation="profile_replace" parent=26284 profile="unconfined" name="com.ubuntu.developer.gcollura.saucybacon_saucybacon_1.0.8" pid=26285 comm="apparmor_parser"
[18:23] <popey> beuno: i see some feedback from you to the developer, but it's not clear to me why it's broken.
[18:25] <sbeattie> popey: all that apparmor message is stating that the saucybacon apparmor profile has been loaded/replaced
[18:25] <popey> oh
[18:25] <popey> i dunno why it's not starting then
[18:25] <popey> i get a white screen and no useful logging
[18:25] <popey> shame, it's an awesome app
[18:26] <aquarius> popey, yeah, I mean, it won the competition. And I *like* recipes. I was hoping it'd be available :)
[18:26] <popey> yeah
[18:27] <popey> phablet@ubuntu-phablet:~$ cat .xsession-errors
[18:27] <popey> init: application-click (com.ubuntu.developer.gcollura.saucybacon_saucybacon_1.0.8) main process (2512) terminated with status 255
[18:27] <popey> wat!
[18:28] <popey> /usr/lib/arm-linux-gnueabihf/qt5/bin/qmlscene: invalid option -- 'I'
[18:28] <popey> that doesn't look good
[18:32]  * popey leaves a comment for the developer
[18:34]  * popey makes food
[19:12] <AskUbuntu> Porting a Unity Lens to Ubuntu 13.10 | http://askubuntu.com/q/363963
[19:21] <rickspencer3> o/
[19:21] <rickspencer3> is there a widget in Ubuntu Components that does that swipe to deliver motion?
[19:21] <rickspencer3> mhall119, seems liek the kind of thing you would know ;)
[19:24] <rickspencer3> is there a widget in Ubuntu Components that does that swipe to *delete* motion?
[19:32] <popey> rickspencer3: we do swipe delete in calculator, but I don't think there's a component for it
[19:32] <rickspencer3> dang
[19:36] <t1mp> rickspencer3: what are you looking for? something like this? http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/qml/sdk-1.0/Ubuntu.Components.ListItems.Empty/#removable-prop
[19:36] <AskUbuntu> write once. Run everywhere? | http://askubuntu.com/q/363970
[19:37] <t1mp> rickspencer3: most, if not all, list items have a removable property that make it deletable by swiping it left/right
[19:37] <rickspencer3> t1mp, could be
[19:37] <rickspencer3> ah, so it's a property of the list!
[19:37] <t1mp> rickspencer3: no, of the individual list items
[19:37] <rickspencer3> oh
[19:37] <rickspencer3> me tries
[19:38] <rickspencer3> holy crap!
[19:38] <rickspencer3> that's awesome
[19:39] <t1mp> the example here seems to make sense :) http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/qml/sdk-1.0/Ubuntu.Components.ListItems.Empty/#details
[19:47]  * mhall119 is glad to see the new API website links being used :)
[20:00] <t1mp> mhall119: :)
[20:01] <t1mp> mhall119: I think I see a bug here http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/qml/sdk-1.0/Ubuntu.Components.ListItems.Empty/#swipingState-prop - no space after "read-only"
[20:11] <mhall119> t1mp: thanks, I can fix that with css
[20:38] <t1mp> mhall119: cool, thanks
[21:09] <danielbeck> hello. I would like to build a HTML5 application for ubuntu touch. QtCreator offers two project types: "HTML5 Touch UI" and "Cordova Ubuntu HTML5 Touch UI". Will both work on Ubuntu touch?
[22:03] <mhall119> ok, I'll ping him tomorrow then, thanks
[22:04] <mhall119> danielbeck: both will work, but if you want to access device sensors/camera/etc you want the Cordova template
[22:06] <danielbeck> ah, ok. Thanks mhall119.