[11:59] <exarr> Hi all. Please prepare for some n00b questions.
[12:00] <exarr> So, I am planning to use openstack with rhel 6.9 and need to learn about cloud-init a bit. But the docs seem to go from "here's a file structure" straight into a here's a load of config.
[12:01] <exarr> So, for an ice-breaker here, how can I set the /etc/hostname from the metadata passed form openstack?
[12:02] <exarr> I believe this is a built-in function
[12:04] <exarr> nvm, I'm gonna youtube and stop pestering you guys :-)
[16:59] <smoser> bug 1734939
[16:59] <smoser> sigh
[16:59] <blackboxsw> hrm did I break that? checking the bug
[17:08] <smoser> blackboxsw: no
[17:08] <smoser> you did not.
[17:08] <smoser> no idea how long its been broken :-(
[17:23] <rharper> smoser: isn't that bionic no-dns issue? did you try that on xenial instead ?
[17:24] <rharper> ah, this is a reporting of the failure
[17:39] <smoser> rharper: yeah, it is that issue. and will become harder to reproduce if that were fixed :)
[17:39] <smoser> (probably we can use 404)
[17:39] <smoser> blackboxsw: what am i missing at https://code.launchpad.net/~chad.smith/cloud-init/+git/cloud-init/+merge/333513
[17:40] <blackboxsw> smoser: was just looking that over. I'm not sure what the prob is.   The new subcommand is 'cloud-init status' not systemctl status
[17:40] <blackboxsw> I didn't wire that into systemctl cmd entrypoints
[17:42] <blackboxsw> maybe it's just a disconnect about what we really want for 'cloud-init status' I was expecting scripts could call into our cli to 'cloud-init status --wait'  if their services needed to hold until cloud-init was done.
[17:43] <blackboxsw> smoser: should we instead wire that subcommand into systemctl status so that custom params can be provided?
[18:05] <smoser> blackboxsw: i must not have been clear.
[18:05] <smoser> you are using the presense of systemctl binary to indicate "this is systemd"
[18:05] <smoser> at least i think
[18:17] <blackboxsw> smoser: we mentioned in comment "moving distro.uses_systemd" where should that live? It seems specific to distro-related attributes and be hesitant to further bloat cloudinit.util
[18:18] <blackboxsw> maybe it could just be a separate public function in cloudinit.distro instead of a class attribute of Distro
[18:18] <blackboxsw> cloudinit.distro.__init__
[18:22] <blackboxsw> though cloud.distro.uses_systemd() method is called from cc_mounts, ntp, fan and rsyslog modules (as well as rhel/opensuse distros). So, we'd have to explicitly import the public function there and use that instead  (or have Distro.uses_systemd be a wrapper that just calls the separate function uses_systemd).
[18:22] <blackboxsw> maybe I'll just do that. I'm in hangout if you want to chat through other options
[18:25] <smoser> joining
[18:25] <blackboxsw> I could be swayed to moving uses_systemd it to cloudinit.util too. We'll have to take a pass extracting functions out of cloudinit.util anyway at some point to make it more modular and focused
[18:29] <rharper> smoser: surely urllib returns something on DNS resolution failure vs. 404
[18:32] <smoser> rharper: right. but shoudl also fail and exit failure on 404
[18:32] <smoser> and that is easier to create a test for
[18:32] <smoser> than to break dns
[18:32] <rharper> for sure
[18:32] <rharper> I see, you were referring to how to reproduce/test
[19:38] <paulmey> Hi all, what's the process for adding features to a datasource?
[19:39] <paulmey> Azure is adding a feature where they are going to keep VM's 'warm' and hold it at boot till a customer needs it...
[19:42] <paulmey> here's the MP with the code they have been working on https://code.launchpad.net/~dojordan/cloud-init/+git/cloud-init/+merge/334341/+index?ss=1
[19:42] <paulmey> do we need an LP bug?
[19:48] <smoser> paulmey: you dont strictly need a bug, but for a feature like that i guess i'd like one. gives a place to "hold"
[19:48] <smoser> i'm not bent on it, but its not like it is hard to file a bug either.
[19:56] <paulmey> ok, you want a bug... 😉
[20:02] <paulmey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/cloud-init/+bug/1734991
[20:22] <blackboxsw> hrm smoser rharper systemctl status cloud-init.target isn't conclusive. Even when cloud-init is pending (but runcmd is camping on a sleep)
[20:22] <blackboxsw> then ActiveState remains 'inactive' and is-enabled remains 'static' until the magical moment when cloud-init is done and transitions to 'enabled'
[20:22] <blackboxsw> or 'active'
[20:23] <blackboxsw> I'm looking for another mechanism to detemine 'cloud-init is pending in systemd'
[20:26] <blackboxsw> it really feels like cloud-init's  manipulation of systemd's $gen_d/${target_name}.wants/${CLOUD_TARGET_NAME} link is our best source of knowing if cloud-init really is going to run
[20:27] <blackboxsw> or systemctl list-dependencies
[20:33] <blackboxsw> feels like systemctl list-dependencies | grep cloud-init.target is probably the best bet
[20:33] <blackboxsw> as tracking details of the link file names would be fragile if that link path changes in future releases.
[20:43] <rharper> blackboxsw: you can query the list of jobs to see if it's pending
[20:43] <rharper> I didn't think we needed that state though
[20:43] <rharper> the tri state was (disabled, never going to run), (enabled and is pending), (enabled is done)
[20:43] <rharper> is there something missing there?
[20:45] <blackboxsw> rharper: yeah double checking today on xenial.... we have is-enabled returns 'static' if cloud-init.target is active,  and if it is disabled via kernel cmdline or /etc/cloud/cloud-init.disabled
[20:46] <blackboxsw> so I can't inspect disabled if we've disabled our systemd generator via /etc/cloud/cloud-init.disabled or kernel cmdline
[20:46] <blackboxsw> s/inspect/introspec/
[20:46] <rharper> I didn't think that was the case
[20:46]  * rharper reads the unit file states again
[20:48] <blackboxsw> I tried adding a #cloud-config\nruncmd: ['sleep 60']  and I also don't get to see an enabled status untl     http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/26066805/
[20:49] <blackboxsw> until cloud-init.target completes
[20:49] <rharper> static == off (never going to run)
[20:49] <blackboxsw> on a system currenty in runcmd final stage http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/26066812/
[20:49] <rharper> on xenial the default is (it runs less it's told not to)
[20:50] <rharper> ie, ds-identify is report-only
[20:50] <blackboxsw> static is on a system where cloud-init is enabled
[20:50] <smoser> blackboxsw: https://hastebin.com/raw/qetelayimi
[20:50] <smoser> that is what i put together to collect info.
[20:50] <smoser> i ran it for xenial, but yeah, didnt see anything that said "expected to be run"
[20:51] <rharper> "static"	The unit file is not enabled, and has no provisions for enabling in the "[Install]" unit file section.
[20:51] <blackboxsw> rharper: then I guess systemd is lying or how cloud-init links or doesn't link the wants file is breaking systemd?
[20:51] <rharper> not following
[20:52] <rharper> cloud-init.target gets dynamically installed
[20:52] <rharper> so, an at-rest system is going to say static
[20:52] <rharper> early, we generator run, and on xenial, the default is to enable unless we disable via file or cmdline
[20:52] <blackboxsw> our cloud-init generator only dynamically links for wants file if we don't have /etc/cloud/cloud-init.disabled or the cloud-init=disabled in the kernel cmdline
[20:52] <rharper> correct
[20:53] <rharper> but you can't run status before the generator runs
[20:53] <rharper> a cloud-init user cannot
[20:53] <blackboxsw> but systemd is-enabled must be checking something else, because it doesn't report 'enabled' on a system that has those links
[20:53] <rharper> it enabled"	Enabled via .wants/, .requires/ or Alias= symlinks (permanently in /etc/systemd/system/, or transiently in /run/systemd/system/).
[20:53] <rharper> so, once generator adds it to a .wants
[20:54] <rharper> then it will show enabled (that's post generator)
[20:54] <rharper> that means cloud-init status should show *pending* until you have a file that indicates cloud-init is done (result.json)
[20:54] <rharper> disabled;  or pending -> done
[20:54] <blackboxsw> rharper: here's a system that has already run all of cloud-init note is-enabled still shows 'static'
[20:54] <blackboxsw> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/26066859/
[20:54] <rharper> and you have a result.json ?
[20:55] <blackboxsw> yeah with no errors
[20:55] <rharper> the output of systemctl isn only relevant when we don't know
[20:55] <rharper> we only need to know, disabled (never going to run, this is 'static') or we have a result file ; if not those cases, then pending
[20:56] <rharper> recall, that is-enabled refers to the *unit* file
[20:56] <rharper> not the active job
[20:56] <rharper> systemd builds a tree of units, for each unit, it spawns a job
[20:56] <rharper> the job runs and is removed from the job queue
[20:59] <smoser> well, cloud-init remain Active when they're done.
[20:59] <rharper> the units, yes
[20:59] <rharper> but really the status command is meant to refer to the runtime element, (ie, the systemd job)
[21:00] <smoser> we're interestd in asking systemd "are you expecting to reach the cloud-init target." thats what we need to know.
[21:00] <smoser> we're not using status now.
[21:00] <smoser> we're using show.
[21:00] <smoser> if you're suggesting we look at the unit instead of a target, i dont know if that would hcange anything or not.
[21:01] <rharper> a target is just a special unit AFAIK
[21:02] <rharper> even if we ignore the jobs;  I think we have enough, given the result file an disabled; if we're not disabled and we don't have a result file, then we're pending
[21:03] <blackboxsw> I'm still lacking how we determine that we are disabled. as I don't see anything from systemd cli that properly reports whether we are disabled
[21:03] <smoser> right.
[21:03] <smoser> there is nothing there.
[21:03] <smoser> its obnoxious
[21:03] <rharper> static means disabled
[21:04] <blackboxsw> we can determine ourselves by looking at cloud-init.disabled OR kernel cmdline
[21:04] <blackboxsw> static also means enabled
[21:04] <blackboxsw> and not yet run
[21:04] <rharper> no it does not
[21:04] <rharper> well, yes, but you can't ask that
[21:04] <rharper> before the generator runs
[21:04] <smoser> static does not mean disabled
[21:04] <blackboxsw> rharper: even after generator runs
[21:04] <blackboxsw> I still see 'static'
[21:04] <smoser> right.
[21:05] <rharper> well, modulo bugs
[21:05] <rharper> systemd says that once it's added to a .wants it's enabled (or enabled-runtime)
[21:05] <rharper> so, maybe we have bug in xenial systemd w.r.t state
[21:05] <rharper> notice in artful/bionic
[21:05] <rharper> it says enabled-runtime
[21:06] <rharper> which is the correct answer
[21:06] <rharper> in xenial
[21:06] <blackboxsw> right, artful/bionic look sane. <= zesty behave differently
[21:06] <rharper> https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemctl.html#
[21:06] <rharper> well, they have newer systemd
[21:06] <rharper> the man page is pretty clear on this
[21:07] <rharper> "enabled"	Enabled via .wants/, .requires/ or Alias= symlinks (permanently in /etc/systemd/system/, or transiently in /run/systemd/system/).
[21:07] <rharper> so, it should be 'static'; then when generator runs, if enabled, it will transition to enabled (or enabled-runtime) due to a symlnk in /run/systemd/system/multi.user.target.wants/cloud-init.target
[21:07] <rharper> I don;t think I'm misreading that man page
[21:08] <smoser> the results differ.
[21:10] <rharper> aka, bug in xenial systemd's systemctl status ; are you referring to something else?
[21:10] <rharper> s/status/is-enabled
[21:11] <blackboxsw> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/26066998/
[21:11] <blackboxsw> referring to a bug in is-enabled
[21:11] <blackboxsw> the above is on zesty
[21:11] <blackboxsw> running in an enabled world first, then disabled 2nd
[21:12] <rharper> not the units, the target
[21:12] <rharper> we only put cloud-init.target in .wants in /run
[21:12] <blackboxsw> I ran against cloud-init, cloud-init.target and cloud-init.service
[21:13] <rharper> so querying the unit files (cloud-init-local , cloud-init, cloud-config, cloud-final) isn't helpful
[21:13] <rharper> blackboxsw: right, but do target only on artful/bionic
[21:13] <rharper> does it not report enabled-* vs. static ?
[21:14] <blackboxsw> rharper: right we are good on artful ++ http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/26067021/
[21:14] <blackboxsw> just broken on xenial & zesty (from our point of view)
[21:15] <rharper> ok, so we file a bug
[21:15] <rharper> so we can get proper is-enabled status for cloud-init.target
[21:15] <rharper> I don't think any other trickery is going to help w.r.t systemd commands
[21:15]  * rharper relocates
[21:19] <blackboxsw> smoser/rharper: Ok so, systemctl list-dependencies does give us an idea about 'pending' cloud-init wants target, and 'systemctl is-enabled' works on artful and above.    But,  filing a bug aside, it's probably just best for us to only look at the /etc/cloud/cloud-init.disabled file and kernel cmdline for determining if we are disabled for the time being, if not disabled... assume pending until result.json
[21:19] <blackboxsw> exists right?
[21:21] <blackboxsw> the other gap in that logic (checking disabled file or cmdline) is ds-identify disabling us
[21:21] <blackboxsw> maybe the 'fix' is for ds-dentify to precipitate a /etc/cloud/cloud-init.disabled file with 'disabled by ds-identify' content.
[21:22] <blackboxsw> then we've covered that gap without relying on older systemd tooling which doesn't currently work
[21:24] <smoser> blackboxsw: writing something. almost done.
[21:26] <smoser> http://paste.ubuntu.com/26067095/
[21:30] <smoser> blackboxsw: ^
[21:30] <smoser> basically, forget about asking systemd. it seems useless to me
[21:30] <blackboxsw> reading
[21:30] <blackboxsw> yeah agreed on systemd
[21:31] <blackboxsw> not enough info there yet (but we'll file a bug)
[21:31] <blackboxsw> ahh didn't realize the ds-identify writes an enabled file
[21:34] <blackboxsw> ok so yeah we can look for presence of (disabled file or kernel cmdline disable) or absence of /run/cloud-init/enabled
[21:34] <blackboxsw> that makes sense (and works today)
[21:35] <blackboxsw> ok, smoser I'm not going to move around the uses_systemd function/method then as we don't need it
[21:39] <smoser> well, blackboxsw when not running on systemd
[21:40] <blackboxsw> smoser why does that matter?
[21:40] <blackboxsw> as sysvinit is always on?
[21:40] <blackboxsw> because there is no generator?
[21:40] <smoser> right
[21:40] <blackboxsw> roger
[21:40] <smoser> the generator writes /run/cloud-init/enabled
[21:40] <blackboxsw> ahh right times two
[21:41] <blackboxsw> ok keeping uses_systemd :/
[21:41] <smoser> on systemd we get that benefit. -- easy and complete knowledge of "disabled".
[21:41] <blackboxsw> hahah
[21:41] <smoser> well, assuming we do not run before the generator
[21:41] <smoser> but i'm willing to acept that for now.
[21:46] <rharper> we can check whether the cloud-init generator has run via the /run/cloud-init dir presence
[21:46] <rharper> that can catch the inb4-cloud-init-generator case
[21:50] <blackboxsw> sure ds-identify creates that dir if it doesn't exist
[21:50] <smoser> rharper: well, but the generator creates that
[21:50] <smoser> no?
[21:50] <rharper> yes
[21:50] <rharper> so, if the dir doesn't exist
[21:51] <blackboxsw> I see it in ds-identify
[21:51] <rharper> then it hasn't run
[21:51] <rharper> that's for the case of testing status before the generator runs
[21:51] <rharper> if we wanted to support status that early, we could say something like (too early) or whatever
[21:51] <rharper> ask-later
[21:51] <blackboxsw> looks like both generator and ds-identify try to create that dir if !present
[21:51] <smoser> oh. well we can't determine what the status is anyway then.  we can know we're in that state i guess.
[21:52] <rharper> right, similar to systemd-analyze saying 'boot not finished yet'
[21:52] <rharper> not particulary helpful but it is some sort of non-answer-answer
[21:53] <rharper> I'm perfectly fine with not handling the case as that's super early
[21:55] <smoser> in my tests with my script above, we're in at "1.0" seconds per lxc's /proc/uptime.
[21:55] <smoser> and it exists already.
[21:55] <smoser> there isnt a *lot* of opportunity to run 'cloud-init wait' earlier than that
[21:55] <smoser> ie:
[21:55] <smoser>  lxc start name;  lxc exec name -- cloud-init wait
[23:56] <blackboxsw> finally wrapped it up and overhauled cloud-init status to use cloudinit.helpers.Paths object https://code.launchpad.net/~chad.smith/cloud-init/+git/cloud-init/+merge/333513


[12:00] <davidm> #startmeeting
[12:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 06:00. The chair is davidm.
[12:00] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[12:00] <davidm> StevenK, persia ogra lool you all about?
[12:00] <Hobbsee> they all snuck off to the pub, apparently.
[12:00]  * ogra looks up half ducked behind a chair ...
[12:01]  * StevenK waves
[12:01] <davidm> ian_brasil are you here?
[12:01]  * ogra feels bad about being such a slacker with the reports
[12:01] <ogra> sorry to all ...
[12:01] <persia> \o
[12:02] <davidm> OK, I don't really expect lool this morning as he is traveling and in a tough location to join in today
[12:04]  * persia digs about for the agenda
[12:04] <davidm> OK on the agenda for today we have : davidm to add session for UDS on "Discussion on hardware support status for devices roundtable."
[12:05] <persia> Oops.  Sorry for stealing that one.
[12:05] <davidm>  which is complete, I did it and persia did it. ;-)
[12:05] <Hobbsee> \o/
[12:05] <davidm> well it's very well done.
[12:05]  * persia still needs to upload the "Complete Specification"
[12:05] <davidm> the second item is also done: persia to write a spec for UDS on using a display manager for MID
[12:06] <davidm> persia, I added that to the schedule for UDS
[12:06] <davidm> that was all the prior actions
[12:06] <davidm> for new business:
[12:07] <davidm> [topic] new business
[12:07] <MootBot> New Topic:  new business
[12:07] <davidm> [topic] Spec Review: anyone have any specs they want for Jaunty that aren't on the jaunty schedule?
[12:07] <MootBot> New Topic:  Spec Review: anyone have any specs they want for Jaunty that aren't on the jaunty schedule?
[12:07] <davidm> brought to us by persia :-)
[12:07] <persia> https://launchpad.net/sprints/uds-jaunty/+specs is the current list.  Check and make sure.
[12:08] <persia> There's a bunch of recommendations on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Mobile/IntrepidPlusOneSpecSuggestions that I didn't see there.
[12:09] <persia> missing ones seem mostly to be lool and ian_brasil, but neither seems to be here today.
[12:09] <ogra> isnt mid-screen-rotation rather about general bugfixing ?
[12:10] <ogra> the gnome resolution dialog already has the UI bits for that
[12:10] <persia> Not intended that way (although I also have to upload more description).  It's because there doesn't seem to be a good app for that, and screen rotation is something I expect to just work on a MID.
[12:11] <persia> Maybe we just need to include that in MID: that's the point of the session.
[12:11] <ogra> so you want a non gnome specific app ?
[12:11] <ogra> ah
[12:11] <ogra> k
[12:11] <davidm> please target blueprints to ubuntu-mobile if they are for the mobile track
[12:12] <persia> davidm, As a project?
[12:12] <davidm> [link] https://launchpad.net/sprints/uds-jaunty/+specs
[12:12] <persia> davidm, Why that, rather than "ubuntu"?
[12:12] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://launchpad.net/sprints/uds-jaunty/+specs
[12:12] <davidm> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Mobile/IntrepidPlusOneSpecSuggestions
[12:12] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Mobile/IntrepidPlusOneSpecSuggestions
[12:12] <davidm> persia,  makes it quite easy to see what they are for?
[12:13] <ogra> well, that has to hapen at registration afaik
[12:13]  * persia wishes harder for a general cleanup of the blueprints interface
[12:13] <ogra> yeah
[12:13] <ogra> i dont think you can change it post registration
[12:13] <ogra> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/gfxboot-like-menu-for-mobile-images would be one
[12:14] <davidm> Ah, well new ones then and I'll retarget the old ones
[12:14] <persia> No.  That part of LP has aged for a bit.
[12:14] <persia> davidm, Not sure if you can, but good luck.
[12:14] <davidm> I can, just did for one
[12:15] <davidm> Yep works for me :-)
[12:15] <davidm> just changed https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/gfxboot-like-menu-for-mobile-images to ubuntu-mobile
[12:16] <StevenK> Ah, that reminds me.
[12:16] <davidm> but new ones would be nicer that way, much harder to miss
[12:16] <ogra> yeah
[12:16] <ogra> priority for that one is unset now btw
[12:16] <StevenK> davidm: gfxboot-like-menu-for-mobile-images and mid-jaunty-boot-menu is the same. Set mid-jaunty-boot-menu to Obselete or something similar
[12:17] <ogra> (was "high"
[12:17] <ogra> )
[12:17] <persia> It was Obsolete last I saw, although it ought get rejected from the sprint schedule.
[12:18]  * davidm grunps but fixed  gfxboot-like-menu-for-mobile-images
[12:18] <persia> Huh?  It swiched back?
[12:18]  * davidm will make  mid-jaunty-boot-menu obsolete
[12:18] <ogra> looks fine to me now
[12:20] <davidm> OK done
[12:20] <davidm> anyway do we have anymore business on the topic?
[12:21] <ogra> we should also make sure we subscribe to the ones we want to go to btw
[12:21] <ogra> its important for the scheduler
[12:21] <ogra> (at least it was in the past, it tries to resolve conflicts if possible)
[12:21] <persia> More than anything, I just wanted to highlight things.  The people who I wanted to highlight them to are not present, so we can move on.
[12:21] <davidm> it is, very important so please subscribe this week
[12:22] <ogra> i.e. i want to be in all the bootspeed ones ...
[12:22] <ogra> so i subbed to them
[12:22] <davidm> [topic] Alpha 1 images: Do we need to do anything for Alpha 1 testing, or shall we defer image testing until Alpha 2?
[12:22] <MootBot> New Topic:  Alpha 1 images: Do we need to do anything for Alpha 1 testing, or shall we defer image testing until Alpha 2?
[12:22] <davidm> StevenK, do we have Alpha 1 images or is Image creation broken right now?
[12:23] <persia> So, last I heard, our images didn't quite work, and the installer wasn't quite ready.
[12:23]  * ogra votes for the latter
[12:23] <persia> In the Foundations meeting, there was talk about making Alpha 1 d-i only (alternate CDs), but I don't remember the conclusion.  If this happens, we're straight out.
[12:24] <davidm> Seem to have lost StevenK
[12:25] <StevenK> I'm here
[12:25] <StevenK> Right, image creation needs a little more work
[12:25] <StevenK> So, defer
[12:26] <davidm> deferred
[12:26] <persia> OK.  That's the end of my items then :)
[12:27] <davidm> yep, on to general status from each of us
[12:27] <davidm> [Status] StevenK
[12:27] <davidm> [topic] Status StevenK
[12:27] <MootBot> New Topic:  Status StevenK
[12:28]  * davidm can barely type this morning
[12:28] <davidm> StevenK, any news?
[12:29] <StevenK> I have been working on image creation, and am nearly completed
[12:30] <davidm> StevenK, Do you have any merges?
[12:30] <StevenK> Yes. I need to keep looking at them.
[12:31] <davidm> StevenK, anything else?
[12:31]  * davidm thinks the string to OZ must be wet.
[12:32] <StevenK> Sorry, it's been a long day and I'm extremly tired
[12:32] <StevenK> Not that I can think of
[12:33] <davidm> OK
[12:33] <davidm> [topic] status ogra?
[12:33] <MootBot> New Topic:  status ogra?
[12:33] <ogra> * spec regitration
[12:33] <ogra> * ending merges: moodle
[12:33] <ogra> *pending even
[12:34] <ogra> apart from that i'm doing ARM 12-14h/day since monday
[12:34] <ogra> nothing else mobile related
[12:34] <davidm> thanks ogra :-)
[12:34] <davidm> [topic] status persia?
[12:34] <MootBot> New Topic:  status persia?
[12:35] <persia> Still need to merge matchbox-keyboard, and complete/upload spec descriptions for the raft of registered specs.
[12:35] <ogra> wikipages with SpecTemplate are enough
[12:35] <ogra> you can flesh it out later
[12:36] <persia> It may come to that, but I hope to have a bit more.
[12:36] <ogra> well, copy paste the description :)
[12:36] <ogra> you will write them only after UDS anyway
[12:37] <ogra> but having the wikipage for the gobby notes helps durign discussion
[12:37] <davidm> persia, anything else?
[12:37] <persia> Well, the goal is to have a couple use cases, etc. documented in the next couple days.
[12:37] <persia> No, that's it for me.
[12:37] <davidm> OK thanks
[12:37] <davidm> [topic] status davidm
[12:37] <MootBot> New Topic:  status davidm
[12:38] <davidm> I've been working on UDS, getting blueprints set and working the schedule.  Also working on recruiting as we have 5 open positions currently.
[12:39] <Hobbsee> wow!
[12:39] <davidm> Also have been working on things related to ARM with the rest of my time
[12:40] <davidm> And meetings continue to eat my time ;-/
[12:40] <davidm> Anyway that is the long and short of it.
[12:41] <davidm> [topic] new business - opens
[12:41] <MootBot> New Topic:  new business - opens
[12:41] <davidm> I don't see anything else on the agenda
[12:41] <davidm> does anyone have anything?
[12:41] <davidm> or I'm happy to close the meeting early
[12:41]  * lool reads backlog and waves
[12:42] <davidm> hi lool
[12:42] <ogra> hey lool
[12:42]  * persia wants to subscribe to lool's specs
[12:42] <Hobbsee> davidm: seeing as you appear to be short on people at the moment, what do you most need done?
[12:42] <lool> I wanted to tell you folks that I wanted to register my specs yesterday evening, but crashed to bed and will to do during the day today
[12:42] <davidm> lool, thanks
[12:43] <ogra> Hobbsee, he needs someone to go to all the meetings for him :P
[12:43] <lool> Hobbsee: You mean on any topic?  There's so much to be done
[12:43] <davidm> Hobbsee, we are shorthanded for folks with ARM skills and folks that know how to write commercial style test plans and automate QA testing
[12:43] <Hobbsee> lool: I had no specific topic in mind
[12:44] <davidm> there is a lot to be done
[12:44] <lool> Hobbsee: One thing which is hard to do and requires help from everybody is to save boot time
[12:44] <lool> Another similar cross-package effort is the boot beautification
[12:44] <Hobbsee> hmmm
[12:44]  * persia would most like to see the test cases for MID and UMPC cleaned up
[12:44] <lool> Basically, we want systems to boot very fast and nicely
[12:44] <lool> And we're far from that
[12:44] <lool> One way could be upstart, there are some other ways
[12:45] <StevenK> Sure, but we should discuss that at UDS first
[12:45] <lool> I think we could slim down mobile boots futher
[12:45] <ogra> drop initramfs :)
[12:45] <lool> Yeah, this is all UDS stuff
[12:45] <Hobbsee> right
[12:45] <persia> Well, except the test cases.  Just something based on intrepid would be a *great* start.
[12:45] <lool> I wanted to hint at these two topics because I know Hobbsee wont show up next week with "What's next?"" ;)
[12:45] <lool> It's probably a two cycles effort to see some large improvement in these areas
[12:46] <Hobbsee> lool: well, i won't show up to your meeting at all next week, as i'll have an exam the morning after, iirc ;)
[12:46] <lool> Hobbsee: Good excuse
[12:46] <lool> Hobbsee: We'll hunt you down
[12:46] <Hobbsee> oh dear.
[12:46] <lool> down to the exam room
[12:46] <ogra> hehe
[12:46] <lool> "What about my boot time"
[12:46] <Hobbsee> it would be much easier if you just waited till UDS...
[12:46] <StevenK> Then she'll ask us to help with the paper
[12:46] <lool> Hobbsee: You're coming to UDS I guess, we should discuss this over there
[12:46] <Hobbsee> StevenK: excellent idea!
[12:47] <Hobbsee> lool: true
[12:47] <Hobbsee> davidm: quick!  This is your chance to end the meeting! ;)
[12:47]  * persia likes short meetings
[12:47] <davidm> ian_brasil,  ian_brasil_ do you have any specs you are planning to register for this jaunty?
[12:47] <ogra> he has one proposal on the wikipage ...
[12:48] <davidm> Hobbsee, I'm trying ;-)
[12:48] <persia> He also pointed at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UMEGuide/ApplicationDevelopment/GPSEnabledWebApplication
[12:48] <davidm> I heard a rumor he had some more he was interested in
[12:49] <persia> (which probably belongs on wiki.ubuntu.com rather than help.ubuntu.com, but that's a side issue)
[12:49] <ogra> persia, i'd like to package maemo mapper
[12:49] <davidm> but since there is no comments I'll say:
[12:49] <persia> ogra, Please do.
[12:49] <davidm> closing meeting going once...........................................................
[12:49] <ogra> yeah, need to find a clean upstream :)
[12:50] <davidm> endmeeting going twice...................
[12:50] <Hobbsee> and gone!
[12:51] <davidm> [endmeeting]
[12:51] <persia> #
[12:51] <lool> #endmeeting
[12:51] <davidm> #endmeeting
[12:51] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 06:51.
[12:51] <davidm> I always get that wrong
[12:51] <davidm> Thanks everyone
[14:00] <persia> Who's here for the Java meeting?
[14:00] <Koon> o/
[14:01] <slytherin> me
[14:02] <persia> #startmeeting
[14:02] <MootBot> Meeting started at 08:02. The chair is persia.
[14:02] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[14:02] <persia> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/Meeting
[14:02] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/Meeting
[14:02] <persia> Just as a reminder, adding specific items to the meeting agenda might interest others, for wider discussion.
[14:02] <persia> Anyway.
[14:03] <persia> [TOPIC] RoadMap
[14:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  RoadMap
[14:03] <persia> robilad is missing, so we'll skip that.
[14:03] <persia> slytherin, MoveToUniverse
[14:04] <slytherin> going on fine. These days Debian is in freeze, so not many packages are moving to universe.
[14:04] <persia> Are we caught up with Debian now?
[14:04] <slytherin> I am working on some merges/syncs and will propose move to universe where appropriate
[14:04] <slytherin> we are not yet cause up completely.
[14:04] <persia> OK.  Anything else on this?
[14:05] <slytherin> nope.
[14:05] <persia> Koon, Maven
[14:05] <Koon> someone (Ludovic Claude) started up an implementation
[14:05] <Koon> https://code.launchpad.net/~ludovicc/+junk/maven-packaging-support
[14:05] <persia> Cool!
[14:05] <Koon> He is a Java guy, so I'll be helping him with debian packaging
[14:06] <persia> Is he on IRC?  Maybe he'd like to join the meetings?
[14:06] <Koon> He should "fix" the spec as soon as he has the tools running
[14:06] <Koon> I proposed him to come, but I suspect it's occuring at work hours for him
[14:06] <Koon> given the time his email are sent :)
[14:06] <slytherin> Koon: how hard do you think it will be for him to put packages in java team ppa?
[14:07] <persia> Using the PPA like that might be a handy way to stage stuff.
[14:07] <Koon> slytherin: I'll be pushing him to do that... will be easier for me to fix the debian part
[14:07] <slytherin> Koon: I am interested to help as well.
[14:08] <Koon> in parallel, I intend to start the basic packaging effort described in the spe
[14:08] <Koon> spec, even
[14:08] <Koon> so as to have a few model packages that we can replicate to novice packagers
[14:09] <Koon> so all in all it's in good shape, and I'm happy to have some Java guy fixing the tools spec
[14:09] <persia> Excellent news.  Jaunty is a reasonable target for this?
[14:10] <Koon> persia: yes, that's the goal.
[14:10] <persia> Anything else on Maven?
[14:10] <Koon> no
[14:11] <persia> OK.  Next, slytherin added "Kill Sun Java 5 in Jaunty" to the Roadmap.  That raises two questions.
[14:11] <persia> First how do we want to add new items to the roadmap.  Is this the right procedure, or should we raise them in a meeting first?
[14:12] <Koon> I'd say we should present the ideas as a meeting item first.
[14:12] <persia> slytherin, What's your opinion about that?
[14:12] <Koon> and roadmap should consist of discussed/somewhat-approved items
[14:13] <slytherin> persia: I am fine with either way.
[14:13]  * Koon updates the status of Maven on the roadmap
[14:13] <slytherin> I just had this on my mind for some time so I added it before I would forget.
[14:14] <persia> I'm also fine with either way, so since there's only one of us who has a preference, let's go with putting things on the agenda first, and the Roadmap afterwards.  I'll just pretend that this is an agenda item for today to save hassle.
[14:14] <persia> So, Roadmap complete.
[14:14] <persia> [TOPIC] Kill Sun Java 5 in jaunty
[14:14] <MootBot> New Topic:  Kill Sun Java 5 in jaunty
[14:14] <persia> slytherin, Go
[14:15] <slytherin> As of now, I have found only few packages with hard reverse-build-depends on sun-java5-jdk. So it is easy to kill that package.
[14:15] <persia> I like the idea.
[14:15] <persia> Any volunteers to coordinate it?
[14:15] <slytherin> sun-java5-jre is a bit tricky, as I couldn't find an easy way to find all the hard rdepends on it.
[14:16] <persia> apt-cache rdepends on available architectures isn't sufficient?
[14:16] <slytherin> persia: I am ready to co-ordinate it. Since I am keeping an eye on Debian packages moving to openjdk, it will be easy for me.
[14:16] <Koon> slytherin: by "killing it" you mean removing it ? Or just ensuring nothing hard-depends on it ?
[14:16] <slytherin> Koon: in the end, removing it.
[14:16]  * persia would prefer removal, if possible.
[14:17] <slytherin> persia: I will have to look for rdepends in a jaunty chroot. Anyway, I will find some time to list all such packages over weekend.
[14:17] <Koon> I think there may still be users running custom software that require a Sun 5 JVM...
[14:18] <slytherin> Koon: And why do you think Sun 6 JVM will not help them?
[14:18] <persia> Koon, Stff that wouldn't work with Sun 6, and users that can't use Hardy or Intrepid for a while more?
[14:19] <Koon> there are some proprietary/closed solutions that just don't let you choose (or are not certified with) JVMs
[14:19] <Koon> that means those users will also have to install JVM by hand
[14:19] <slytherin> Koon: in that case user is still free to download 5 from SUn's website.
[14:20] <Koon> slytherin: ok, just wanted to make sure that we were aware of this side-effect
[14:20] <persia> Koon, The question is really how to serve the users best.  There's a lot of known bugs in Java 5 that will never be fixed.
[14:21] <slytherin> +1
[14:21] <persia> Given that Hardy is LTS, do you think there's a high chance that such users won't be able to migrate to 6 by the next LTS?
[14:21] <handschuh> thats true for sun java 6, too
[14:21] <Koon> persia: I can see clearly the advantages of removing it :)
[14:23] <persia> Koon, You've also clearly stated the advantages of keeping it.  Personally, I'd rather remove it sooner than later in a non-LTS, so in LTS+1 or LTS+2.  Removing it suddenly for LTS+3 or an LTS doesn't give users warning to migrate.
[14:23] <persia> So if we don't do it now, I think April 2011 is our next window of opportunity.
[14:25] <Koon> persia: I'd say that should be spec-ed to make sure it gets the proper visibility and approvals
[14:25] <persia> I'd agree with that.
[14:26] <Koon> I don't really mind either way -- it's just that there might be others with... partner interests that would.
[14:26] <persia> slytherin, Would you mind creating a spec for that?  The migration is one thing, but the removal probably needs release notes and stuff.
[14:30] <persia> slytherin, ?
[14:30] <Koon> in all cases we should fix the hard depends for the packages in the repository
[14:30] <persia> Koon, With that, I'll say it belongs on the Roadmap, for the work to be done (as we're in consensus on that part).
[14:31] <Koon> oh yes
[14:31] <slytherin> persia: sorry, I was discussing something with a team mate.
[14:32] <slytherin> persia: Is a spec required? or a page like MoveToUniverse is sufficient?
[14:32] <persia> slytherin, For the migration, I think the wiki is fine.  For the removal, I'm inclined to agree with Koon that it's worth having a spec, and filing a release note.
[14:33] <slytherin> persia: ok, I will do that.
[14:34] <persia> slytherin, And put your name as the coordinator on the RoadMap.  As always, doesn't mean you need to do it, just that you need to make sure it gets done (which might mean doing it if you can't excite others).
[14:35] <persia> OK.  That decided, let's move on.
[14:36] <persia> [TOPIC] Other business
[14:36] <MootBot> New Topic:  Other business
[14:36] <persia> I'll be unable to attend the next two meetings.  Would someone else be willing to volunteer to chair?
[14:37]  * Koon checks his agenda
[14:37] <slytherin> I will have been unable to attend meetings lately. So I would not volunteer for this.
[14:37] <persia> The open slots are 27th November and 4th December
[14:38] <Koon> persia: I can do it, if slytherin is not 100% sure to be able to join
[14:38] <slytherin> Koon: great
[14:38] <persia> Koon, OK.  Although without slytherin or I, might be quick meetings :)
[14:38] <persia> Anyone else have other business?
[14:39] <slytherin> nope
[14:39] <Koon> .
[14:40] <persia> OK.  Anything else to #ubuntu-java then.
[14:40] <persia> #endmeeting
[14:40] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 08:40.


[10:15] <davmor2> lool: I now have functioning led on wifi but still no wifi :(
[10:15] <lool> davmor2: Does it show up on lspci?
[10:15] <davmor2> Wifi is list if I do iwconfig though which it wasn't before
[10:15] <lool> Ok
[10:15] <lool> davmor2: did you reboot after that?
[10:16] <davmor2> lool: Yes still no wifi according to n-m
[10:18] <davmor2> I get the 4 bars with a cross
[10:18] <lool> davmor2: No idea, perhaps check your dmesg and look for other people having similar issues?  You could try bringing up the wiki by hand
[10:19] <lool> davmor2: Did you check whether you have a wifi killswitch?
[10:20] <davmor2> lool: I do have a switch but if I drop the hardy image back on it works and I've not switched it off in the mean time,  I'll try it to be sure though
[10:21] <lool> davmor2: Unfortunately, the proprietary madwifi driver has bitrot as the opensource versions get all the attention now
[10:22] <lool> davmor2: If they don't work, you should collect info and file a bug
[10:22] <davmor2> lool: will do
[10:23] <davmor2> I'll try a fresh install though and get info on the default driver first I think :)
[10:24] <davmor2> lool: is there a command I can run to check which driver is powering a device at all?  or is that tied into lspci type commands?
[10:29] <lool> davmor2: it's probably going to be in sysfs
[10:30] <lool> davmor2: /sys/class/net/<intf name>
[10:30] <lool> /device/driver should be a symlink to the module name
[10:30] <lool> driver: symbolic link to `../../../../bus/pci/drivers/atl1'
[10:31] <davmor2> lool: Thanks I'll get a bug together asap.
[11:17] <davmor2> Meh today image doesn't want to boot :(
[22:21] <daryl> Hello everyone, I wanted to try ubuntu-mid on a Web DT366 I just got. Its from DT research. 8 inch industrial touch panel computer. I was just wondering which version to choose for an amd 32 bit x86 cpu @533 and 512 of ram? I will be installing from usb cd-rom and to a 2 gig flash card.
[22:28] <daryl> Thanks for the topic of the day ogra. I'll try that iso. The web site is confusing if you dont have one of the two platforms mentioned. This thing was a hundred dollars on ebay. its a sound investment if anyone has a bill burning a hole in the pocket.


[01:05] <elopio> veebers: there's something weird with get_proxy_object_for_existing_process
[01:06] <elopio> it takes no positional arguments, yet get_autopilot_proxy_object_for_process is passing one.
[01:07] <elopio> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~autopilot/autopilot/trunk/view/head:/autopilot/introspection/_search.py#L49
[01:18] <veebers> elopio: good catch, it's probably due to get_autopilot_proxy_object_for_process being deprecated and not actually used anywhere. I might remove it this week perhaps
[01:19] <elopio> veebers: I haven't seen it in use anywhere.
[01:19] <elopio> so +1 to removing it.
[01:20] <elopio> we were using a get_proxy_object_for_existing_process with the same arguments as that deprecated method though, so I suppose at some point you removed the pid argument.
[01:22] <veebers> elopio: hmm, I think it was changed for 1.5 but my memory might be wrong
[01:23] <elopio> veebers: no harm anyway because the branch where it fails has not landed. It just seemed weird and I went to read the code.
[01:44] <thomi> veebers: got a moment?
[01:44] <veebers> thomi: in 1 minute I will
[01:49] <veebers> thomi: what's the haps?
[01:49] <thomi> veebers: in _launcher.py, in ApplicationLauncher.__init__
[01:49] <thomi> the docstring says:
[01:49] <thomi> :keyword case_addDetail: addDetail method to use (self.addDetail if not
[01:49] <thomi>         specified)
[01:50] <thomi> but I don't see where 'self.addDetail' is used if the parameter is None
[01:50] <thomi> amI missing something, or is the docstring just wrong?
[01:51] <veebers> self.case_addDetail is used in UpstartApplicationLauncher (which inherits) I'm pretty sure the others did to but have been modified since
[01:52] <veebers> thomi: wait, I think i misunderstood
[01:52] <thomi> veebers: yeah, I see where it's used, but I'm asking why the docstring says that self.addDetail will be used if that parameter is None
[01:53] <veebers> thomi: I'm not sure, that's been recently changed by max (the docstring and the use of self.addDetail if none is passed in)
[01:53] <thomi> hmm, ok
[01:54] <thomi> I'll remove the docstring comment
[01:54] <veebers> thomi: ok
[02:52] <ePierre> hey there!
[18:01] <josharenson> Me again with another question... Can anyone explain the position attributes listed here http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/devel/ubuntu-14.04/autopilot/api/input.html#autopilot.input.Mouse.move_to_object
[18:01] <josharenson> Can't seem to find any examples or any qml docs mentioning those atts
[18:09] <balloons> josharenson, globalRect is from qml
[18:10] <josharenson> Do you have any documentation?  I'll stop bothering you after I figure it out.
[18:11] <josharenson> :-p
[18:19] <balloons> I guess I confused by what you are asking
[18:20] <balloons> if you select and object, this method will move to it.. it tries to use any properties it finds for the object in order to move
[18:30] <josharenson> balloons, how do you set those properties? When I try in my QML code, it doesn't run.
[18:30] <josharenson> and I can't find any QML API info about those attributes
[18:36] <balloons> josharenson, afaik, it's a runtime interpertation. You would set the unit size if you are writing a ubuntu sdk app.
[18:38] <balloons> you layout your UI in qml, and it's interperted and displayed. the actual coordinates will vary depending on the device you run on


[15:49] <kulelu88> Hey MaNI do you write Python code ?
[15:50] <MaNI> very limited - not a huge python fan
[15:54] <kulelu88> hmmm. okay I'll ask in the flask channel
[16:19] <pavlushka> ahoy za!
[16:43] <MaNI> hi
[16:46] <inetpro> hi
[16:54] <pavlushka> hi Maaz inetpro :)
[16:55] <pavlushka> please take a look at http://paste.ubuntu.com/23265829/ :)
[16:56] <pavlushka> and http://imgur.com/a/bSAb1
[17:53] <inetpro> pavlushka: please explain your problem
[17:53] <inetpro> oh and hi as well
[17:59] <pavlushka> inetpro: all for this https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apport/+bug/1629043
[17:59] <pavlushka> need to report a test case on it.
[18:01] <inetpro> pavlushka: I don't get where the browser comes into the play here
[18:01] <pavlushka> lol up there I meant MaNI not Maaz :)
[18:02] <pavlushka> inetpro: when you want to report a bug on any package, you do a "ubuntu-bug package" it opens a browser to report the bug.
[18:02] <inetpro> ok
[18:03] <inetpro> but is that apport's fault?
[18:03] <pavlushka> inetpro: but the apport tool supposed to use the default browser what it does not.
[18:03] <pavlushka> inetpro: I am not sure, in that case it will be a feature request.
[18:04] <inetpro> pavlushka: what OS?
[18:04] <pavlushka> Xubuntu!
[18:06] <inetpro> so with 'xdg-mime query default text/html' you imply that you've set the default browser to firefox?
[18:06] <pavlushka> inetpro: and I also provided a visual proof in http://imgur.com/a/bSAb1 about it.
[18:07] <pavlushka> yes
[18:07] <inetpro> the screenshot doesn't really tell me much
[18:07] <pavlushka> the second one.
[18:08] <inetpro> ahh... didn't notice the extra one
[18:08] <pavlushka> inetpro: and I checked the /etc/apport/ directory, all of it, nowhere any browser settings mentioned. in my Xubuntu 16.04.
[18:09] <inetpro> but that still does not mean that the OS adheres to the Firefox setting
[18:11] <inetpro> in Kubuntu/KDE there is a setting under System Settings | Applications | Default Applications | Web Browser
[18:14] <pavlushka> inetpro: yes
[18:14]  * pavlushka biting his hand
[18:15] <inetpro> haha, why?
[18:15] <inetpro> what do you get for the following?
[18:15] <inetpro> update-alternatives --config x-www-browser
[18:15] <pavlushka> inetpro: I set Firefox in preferred applications but it is now switched to opera, I cant tell man, damn.
[18:16] <inetpro> oops... with sudo in front
[18:16] <inetpro> and
[18:16] <inetpro> sudo update-alternatives --config gnome-www-browser
[18:16] <pavlushka> and?
[18:16] <inetpro> http://askubuntu.com/questions/79305/how-do-i-change-my-default-browser/367820#367820
[18:18] <pavlushka> wow inetpro , you are an alchemist :p
[18:18] <inetpro> haha :-)
[18:18] <inetpro> google is your friend
[18:19] <MaNI> wine periodically hops up to the top of my mime type handlers for everything :/ that annoying moment when you click on an email attachment and it fires up a wineserver with internet explorer in it...
[18:21] <inetpro> pavlushka: the problem really is a GTK vs QT issue
[18:21] <pavlushka> lol @ MaNI
[18:22] <inetpro> Mozilla chose to use GTK on Linux
[18:22] <pavlushka> inetpro: why opera is set in auto mode and in 0 (top) in priority?
[18:22] <inetpro> pavlushka: I don't understand it all
[18:23] <inetpro> all I can say is, things often get a bit messy when you look at the details
[18:24] <MaNI> there was actually a point where somebody maintained a qt port of firefox and they chose to ignore that as well :p
[18:24] <pavlushka> inetpro: http://paste.ubuntu.com/23266443/
[18:26] <pavlushka> MaNI: wow , where?
[18:26] <inetpro> man update-alternatives
[18:26] <MaNI> you can read a bit about it here https://wiki.mozilla.org/Qt
[18:27] <MaNI> but yeah it died due to lack of support/interest
[18:29] <kulelu88> MaNI: design question concerning an API. When should a POST request be used?
[18:30] <inetpro> MaNI: I guess in that specific case, Nokia stopped paying their engineers to continue the efforts after Stephen Elop released the "burning platform" memo
[18:30] <MaNI> probably played a role as well :p
[18:32] <MaNI> POST create, PUT create /or/ update - thats my understanding
[18:32] <kulelu88> MaNI: so say I want to "send" something that already exists on the API. Eg. I want to 'send' a random number to a user already in the DB, do I use a GET request?
[18:33] <MaNI> but I don't do webapi stuff a lot, so I'm no authority :p
[18:34] <inetpro> kulelu88: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1211881/why-get-method-is-faster-than-post
[18:34] <inetpro> and see this as well: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/26923286/get-vs-post-performance
[18:35] <MaNI> ahh - in the get vs post side of things it's mostly about whether exposing it to the URL is desired or not IMO
[18:35] <inetpro> oh and http://www.w3schools.com/TAGS/ref_httpmethods.asp
[18:36] <MaNI> i.e. do you want a user to be able to copy that URL, give it to someone else and have it keep all the details, or is doing so a bad thing
[18:42] <kulelu88> POST request it is.
[18:43] <kulelu88> inetpro: hoegaanit ?
[18:43] <inetpro> good and yourself kulelu88 :-)
[18:43] <kulelu88> good good
[18:44] <inetpro> so how we get more support for oom Kilos guys?
[18:45] <inetpro> seems the donations have come to a bit of a grinding halt
[18:46] <inetpro> or is it just a temporary pause?
[18:46] <kulelu88> I can't think of anything that is simple. Asking for media support is tricky
[18:54] <inetpro> maybe will help if we all use the same unique tag like #FundKilos?
[18:55] <inetpro> I tweeted with #SupportMiles this afternoon but I see others have used that tag already for other purposes
[18:59] <pavlushka> then how about #SupportKilos?
[19:00] <inetpro> that should work as well
[19:03] <inetpro> I'll retweet on @ubuntuza if anyone uses those hashtags and I suggest you also use #gofundme as well
[19:07] <kulelu88> how is Kilos feeling though? heard from him? inetpro
[19:08] <inetpro> kulelu88: he has been here from time to time
[19:08] <inetpro> 10/01 11:45:45 <Kilos> i am supposed to take it easy and no straining
[19:08] <inetpro> 10/01 11:46:05 <Kilos> but allowed to walk so have walked some ks
[19:08] <inetpro> 10/01 11:52:00 <Kilos> and i cook some
[19:08] <inetpro> 10/01 11:52:20 <Kilos> eating kangaroo curry now
[19:09] <inetpro> looks like he'll be fine
[19:12] <inetpro> just that hospital bill of his will be very difficult to settle with no income
[19:49] <magespawn> howdy all
[19:51] <inetpro> hi magespawn, how're you doing?
[19:58] <magespawn> hi inetpro, good, and you?
[19:59] <inetpro> good, good thanks
[20:01] <inetpro> magespawn: just trying to figure how we can find more funds to cover the rest of the bills for oom Kilos
[20:01] <inetpro> still $7,979.30 to go
[20:01] <magespawn> more pulicity maybe?
[20:01] <inetpro> see https://twitter.com/ubuntuza/status/782670985032036352
[20:02] <inetpro> I'll retweet any messages with those tags on the @ubuntuza account
[20:03] <magespawn> what is the link to the gofundme page?
[20:04] <inetpro> https://www.gofundme.com/ReunionRoadblock/
[20:04] <inetpro> in the title above
[20:05] <inetpro> an awesome $4,540 raised by 42 people in 10 days already
[20:06] <inetpro> that's quite a lot of rands already
[20:06] <magespawn> is there a specific time limit? before the bill has to be paid?
[20:07] <inetpro>  Update 2 (2 days ago): " The finance lady for the Monash Medical Centre has graciously offered us an extra two weeks to raise the funds. We gave her the link to our GoFundMe page to show her that we are trying to raise the funds, and she allowed us more time to do so."
[20:07] <inetpro> ".. So in total, it's three weeks from his discharge date. Please don't forget to share and re-share with everyone you know, and again thank you so much for helping us with this medical bill."
[20:07] <inetpro> " Warm regards - Tara"
[20:12] <inetpro> thanks magespawn
[20:13] <magespawn> okay so, breathing space then, just did a tweet, that will also go through to my facebook, will g+ it now
[20:13] <magespawn> retweeted already
[20:13] <inetpro> let's see whether we can get that message flowing throughout the coming week
[20:13] <magespawn> too fast
[20:21] <magespawn> man the battery on this netwbook goes flat fast.
[20:23] <inetpro> netwbook?
[20:23] <magespawn> netbook
[20:23] <magespawn> typo
[20:23] <inetpro> magespawn: is that the old Acer?
[20:23] <magespawn> yup
[20:25] <inetpro> reminds me of the one I bought for my wife a few years ago... still going strong after all that time
[20:25] <inetpro> Acer Aspire One... IIRC we paid R2,000 for it
[20:28] <magespawn> the one i was using before that belongs to the company i was supporting had the extended battery
[20:28] <magespawn> this one has the standard
[20:29] <magespawn> yout forgot the 'happ' on tht aspire one
[20:29] <magespawn> happy too
[20:30] <inetpro> oh right :-)
[20:33] <magespawn> graphically this is one is a bit lacking, so th cli skills are coming along nicely.
[20:46]  * inetpro falling asleep
[20:46] <inetpro> tomorrow is another day... good night
[20:48] <kulelu88> ciao inetpro
[20:51] <magespawn> that is me too, up early in the morning
[20:52] <magespawn> good night all


[00:25] <philballew> bkerensa, did you get set up with steam?
[00:25] <philballew> I have not gotten my uds email
[00:25] <bkerensa> philballew: not yet but I am invited just have not got e-mail
[00:26] <bkerensa> but I am happily using Steam right now
[00:26] <bkerensa> :P
[00:26] <philballew> What exactly is steam?
[00:26] <bkerensa> philballew: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/11/reddit-users-bypass-valve-linux-beta-invitations
[00:26] <bkerensa> omg
[00:26] <bkerensa> u want to use something and you do not know what it is?
[00:26] <philballew> I hear its a game?
[00:26] <bkerensa> no
[00:26] <bkerensa> its a gaming platform
[00:26] <philballew> Everyone says its cool so I want to play it
[00:27] <philballew> so like a game store?
[00:29] <bkerensa> and platform yes
[02:04] <bkerensa> slangasek: I imagine Iowans are getting lots of calls today :P
[04:00] <philballew> bkerensa, were you playing these games because you already bought them in windows?
[04:01] <philballew> or did you buy them today?
[04:01] <bkerensa> philballew: I already owned them because my fiancee games on Windows
[04:02] <bkerensa> slangasek:
 which steve?
 Langasek
 ah yeah
 abuse him
[04:02] <bkerensa> ;p
[04:02] <bkerensa> looks like abuse
[04:04] <philballew> bkerensa, ah, yeah, I found thee free section. My night will have some fun.
[04:14] <arcupe> Fox called Ohio! It's official.
[04:14] <arcupe> checkmate
[07:01] <slangasek> bkerensa: er what is this abuse about?
[07:05] <bkerensa> slangasek: apparently they wont to interview you on Ubuntu on Air again.
[07:06] <bkerensa> slangasek: <jcastro_> Rick I think once a cycle is enough
[07:06] <bkerensa> <jcastro_> the other engineering managers I see as fair game. :)
[07:06] <bkerensa> ;p
[20:38] <bkerensa> tgm4883: I sent you a e-mail


[14:12] <siretart> cjwatson: thanks a lot for the swift libav11 transition!
[14:42] <cjwatson> thanks for preparing it
[14:42] <cjwatson> yeah, seems to have gone pretty smoothly with the exception of jitsi being independently busted


[12:09] <mornfall> Riddell: sounds fair
[12:10] <mornfall> let me check latest debian synaptic sources editor
[12:10] <mornfall> (trying to write commit log for a week worth of java hacking in parallel)
[12:14] <mornfall> hmm, 2 main differences between adept and synaptic
[12:14] <mornfall> hm, 3
[12:14] <mornfall> checkboxes (which i will probably add since they are more obvious)
[12:15] <Riddell> right click to enable is hard to find
[12:15] <mornfall> buttons to move lines around instead of drag&drop
[12:15] <mornfall> and repository split input
[12:17] <mornfall> in synaptic, it is somewhat not obvious how to change existing line
[12:17] <mornfall> have to select a different line to see the effect of your edits
[12:18] <mornfall> i like in-place editing more... on the other hand, may be again hard to discover
[12:21] <Riddell> doesn't synaptic have tickboxes for saying "source packages on this one please" and "security updates" etc
[12:21] <mornfall> not the version i have
[12:21] <mornfall> 0.57.5
[12:34] <Riddell> amu: can you confirm http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10193
[12:35] <mornfall> good night
[01:16] <seth_k|lappy> Bah, Riddell, where do I set includes for a package. I'm getting the same-ish error I got with a couple other KDE packages:
[01:16] <seth_k|lappy> /usr/share/qt3/bin/moc configdialog.h -o configdialog.moc
[01:16] <seth_k|lappy> moc: configdialog.h: No such file
[01:16] <seth_k|lappy> yet configdialog.h exists in the source tree, just in a different directory that isn't included
[01:17] <Riddell> seth_k|lappy: ah, it's broken for builddir!=sourcedir
[01:17] <Riddell> seth_k|lappy: you need to fix Makefile.am
[01:17] <seth_k|lappy> Riddell, I'll look at that patch you posted for kommander and hopefully that'll help me figure out what to fix :)
[01:18] <seth_k|lappy> is there a quick tip you can give on what to look for?
[01:19] <seth_k|lappy> ah, this looks pretty easy to fix
[01:23] <Riddell> seth_k|lappy: I'd have to look at the patch again to work it out :)
[01:23] <Riddell> it needs some variable added to the Makefile.am
[01:23] <Riddell> seth_k|lappy: and make -f Makefile.cvs run again of course
[01:23] <Riddell> seth_k|lappy: did you get it working?
[06:27] <seth_k|lappy> Riddell, ahhhhhhh... worked and worked trying to figure it out, but to no avail. It seems like it's not a builddir != sourcedir problem, because I have the same issue when building directly from the sourcedir. http://seth.pastebin.com/488266 for when you awaken :)
[07:29] <sealne> is there a simple way to rebuild the breezy cd so that it has stuff from updates?
[07:32] <sealne> however the main thing i'm wanting to do is change the mirror used to a local one
[07:33] <sealne> partly to get around the annoying timeouts as we are behind a non transparent web proxy
[07:35] <sealne> so that i don't have to explain local complications to the class installing breezy
[07:37] <sealne> am i needing to rebuild one of the base packages to change the mirror list?
[07:43] <sealne> apt-setup-udeb?
[07:46] <sealne> Mirrors.masterlist.ubuntu in base-config probably?
[07:59] <sealne> altho apt-setup appears to have hard coded where ubuntu-security is hmm
[09:32] <viviersf> Riddell : PING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[09:36] <Mez> viviersf, I guess Riddell is asleep - sup?
[09:36] <viviersf> erm
[09:37] <viviersf> im using kde 3.5 on impi
[09:37] <viviersf> cos i think its much better
[09:37] <viviersf> so i came back from leave
[09:37] <viviersf> did a dist-upgrade
[09:37] <viviersf> now when i install impi to the hdd
[09:37] <viviersf> something weird is going on with kdm
[09:37] <viviersf> you know of any problems ?
[09:38] <Mez> depends on what "something weird"
[09:38] <Mez> is
[09:43] <viviersf> lol
[09:43] <viviersf> erm
[09:43] <viviersf> thats what im trying to figure out
[09:44] <viviersf> exactly what is going on
[09:44] <viviersf> gimme couple mins
[09:59] <Tonio_> hi everyone
[09:59] <Tonio_> best wishes
[12:36] <Riddell> sigh
[12:37] <Riddell> viviersf needs to work past the morning if he's to be awake at the same time as me
[01:02] <Tonio_> hi Riddell, best whishes
[01:04] <freeflying_> Riddell: how about dapper install cd now ?
[01:13] <Riddell> freeflying_: I don't know, I'm just about to try it out, ask me again in a couple of hours
[01:13] <Riddell> happy new year Tonio_
[01:14] <Tonio_> Riddell: sorry for starting the year with a bad news, but I was searching for wlassistant in dapper and couldn't find it...
[01:14] <Tonio_> Siretart uploaded id one month ago
[01:15] <Tonio_> do you have access to see what happened or may I ask to elmo like for pwmanager ?
[01:18] <Riddell> Tonio_: I can't see it anywhere, ask siretart and if he doesn't know ask elmo, and if elmo doesn't know or get back to you ask me to upload it again
[01:21] <Tonio_> Riddell: okay, thanks :)
[01:23] <Riddell> JRe: fancy changing kded's mediamanager into a general hal watcher?
[01:23] <Riddell> JRe: gnome is getting cool stuff like printer plugin clever bits
[01:25] <Tonio_> ho Riddelln I just saw it, thanks for the approval in the kubuntu-team launchpad group :)
[01:26] <Riddell> thanks for joining
[01:26] <Riddell> launchpad made me fight to be able to approve, but I managed
[01:26] <Tonio_> pleasure
[01:27] <Tonio_> I'll start the animated icon for adept this week, as mornfall asked
[01:27] <Tonio_> hi mornfall, happy new year
[02:30] <KabelKasper> Riddell: Have you ever seen the CCux-Linux installer?
[02:30] <Riddell> KabelKasper: nope, what is it?
[02:31] <KabelKasper> Riddell: Maybe it can help in developing the GUI of KubuntuExpress
[02:31] <KabelKasper> http://ccux-linux.de/site/index.php?module=pagesetter&func=viewpub&tid=1&pid=4
[02:32] <KabelKasper> Riddell: I like it ;)
[02:33] <Riddell> KabelKasper: any idea what it's written in?
[02:42] <KabelKasper> No idea, I just saw it
[03:03] <Riddell> freeflying_: you'll be pleased to know todays install CD works wonderfully
[03:04] <freeflying_> Riddell: hmm , well
[03:07] <_rockie> Riddell: scim-qtimmm still can not be compiled
[03:07] <Riddell> _Sime: displayconfig is giving me a problem http://kubuntu.pastebin.com/488640
[03:07] <Riddell> on startup
[03:08] <Riddell> freeflying: where is it?  what's the problem?
[03:08] <freeflying> Riddell: can not find headerfiles
[03:09] <freeflying> Riddell: will have a look here http://everybody.good-day.net/~ikuya/kubuntu/5.10/ .
[03:10] <freeflying> Riddell: the guy of ubuntu-ja team have patched QT under breezy . and make scim-qtimm compiked cerrrectly
[03:14] <Riddell> hmm, don't support he wants to do the same for dapper? :)
[03:14] <Riddell> we should get him on IRC
[03:14] <Riddell> I'm busy just now but I'll try and take a look at it later
[03:16] <freeflying_> Riddell: he will not works on that for dapper
[03:41] <raphink> wb freeflying_
[04:07] <freeflying> raphink: hi
[04:10] <raphink> :)
[05:26] <Riddell> _Sime: is pykdeextensions in SVN yet?
[05:28] <sebas> Not that I know.
[05:29] <Riddell> I've spotted a problem or two is all :)
[05:30] <sebas> What kind of problem?
[05:32] <Riddell> the sample app doesn't import kfile
[05:32] <Riddell> and gives the wrong arguments to KFileDialog
[05:32] <Riddell> and the configuration dialogue doesn't work
[05:32] <sebas> Ah, the second one might be a problem with newer pykde, I guess?
[05:33] <sebas> KFileDialog( ... and then try to change None to "", if there's one in it.
[05:33] <Riddell> yes, I did that
[05:33] <Riddell> actuallyt is had KFileDialog(None, One...
[05:33] <Riddell> but there's not such variable as One, don't know what that's ment to be
[05:35] <sebas> Hm, I can have a look at it.
[05:35] <sebas> How do I reproduce the problem?
[05:36] <Riddell> well it's in the kdeapp in app_templates
[05:36] <Riddell> in pykdeextensions 0.4
[05:36] <Riddell> that argument should be a filter
[05:36] <raphink> Riddell: there's a french translation small issue in /usr/share/apps/konqueror/servicemenus/kaffeine_append_file.desktop
[05:36] <raphink> where shall I report it ?
[05:36] <Riddell> chaning it to "*.html" is all good but I'm curious to know what this One thing is
[05:36] <raphink> I can patch the file it's very fast
[05:37] <raphink> but I'm not sure where to file the bug
[05:37] <Riddell> raphink: qu'est que c'est le problem?
[05:37] <raphink> Riddell: ;)
[05:37] <raphink> Name[fr] =Ajouter la liste de lecture de Kaffeine
[05:37] <raphink> this is the pb
[05:38] <raphink> the desktop file is UTF-8, but the sentence isn't ;)
[05:38] <raphink> it just has to be retyped
[05:38] <raphink> just one character to type ;)
[05:38] <raphink> should be
[05:38] <raphink> Name[fr] =Ajouter  la liste de lecture de Kaffeine
[05:38] <Riddell> raphink: ah, well kaffeine is in KDE SVN now so reprting to the kde fr i18n team would be the best way
[05:38] <raphink> instead
[05:39] <raphink> hmm ok
[05:39] <Riddell> raphink: the file will be in SVN  l10n/messages/fr/extragear or something
[05:39] <raphink> do I send a mail to kde-francophone?
[05:39] <Riddell> send them a patch and they'll love you forever
[05:39] <raphink> haha
[05:39] <Riddell> raphink: check i18n.kde.org for the french team contact
[05:39] <raphink> I am subscribed to the kde i18n for french
[05:39] <raphink> since yesterday ;)
[05:39] <raphink> haha
[05:42] <raphink> I'll send them a patch
[05:44] <raphink> Riddell: hmm kaffeine is in KDE now ?
[05:45] <Riddell> raphink: in extragear/multimedia I believe
[05:45] <raphink> can't find it
[05:46] <raphink> http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/l10n/fr/messages/extragear-multimedia/?rev=415265
[05:46] <raphink> no kaffeine here
[05:46] <raphink> nor in the desktop_extragear-multimedia
[05:47] <raphink> last time I checked, kaffeine was not in KDE
[05:47] <Riddell> http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/extragear/multimedia/kaffeine/ app is here at least
[05:47] <raphink> ok
[05:48] <raphink> let's see
[05:48] <raphink> ah
[05:48] <Riddell> http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/l10n/fr/messages/extragear-multimedia/kaffeine.po?rev=490538&view=log
[05:48] <Riddell> it is there
[05:48] <raphink> I must have been in an old part of the trunk that has been replaced
[05:49] <raphink> this is the file I should patch?
[05:49] <Riddell> yes, I think so
[05:49] <raphink> that's weird
[05:49] <Riddell> assuming the problem in still in there
[05:49] <raphink> the string appears well there
[05:49] <Riddell> so it's probably been fixed
[05:50] <raphink> nope
[05:50] <Riddell> ?
[05:50] <raphink> all versions have it right
[05:50] <raphink> and when I ran nano on the file, I could see it written right
[05:50] <raphink> but not running more on nit
[05:50] <raphink> it
[05:50] <raphink> and it doesnt' show properly in konqueror
[05:50] <raphink> this is weird
[05:52] <raphink> I just had to retype exactly the same string in the file
[05:52] <raphink> and save it
[05:52] <raphink> just make a change and save
[05:52] <Riddell> works fine for me in kate as utf8
[05:52] <raphink> yes
[05:52] <Riddell> which file are you changing?
[05:52] <raphink> works fine for me when I edit it too
[05:53] <raphink>  /usr/share/apps/konqueror/servicemenus/kaffeine_append_file.desktop
[05:53] <raphink> this is the file i'm changing
[05:53] <Riddell> yeah, that one is bad
[05:53] <Riddell> but the .po file in SVN is fine so it'll be fixed in the next release
[05:53] <raphink> running `more /usr/share/apps/konqueror/servicemenus/kaffeine_append_file.desktop` shows it bad
[05:53] <raphink> but running `nano /usr/share/apps/konqueror/servicemenus/kaffeine_append_file.desktop` show it right
[05:53] <raphink> just modifying anything in the file with nano and saving solves the issue
[05:54] <Riddell> that file is broken in nano for me
[05:54] <raphink> really?
[05:54] <raphink> Riddell: so what can I do about it?
[05:55] <Riddell> raphink: wait for the next release
[05:55] <raphink> oki
[05:55] <raphink> we cannot fix that in ubuntu in the meanwhile?
[05:55] <Riddell> fix some kubuntu bugs in the mean time :)
[05:55] <raphink> patching the desktop file
[05:56] <raphink> ;)
[05:56] <Riddell> raphink: for dapper we will be able to make changes to string translation because the strings will be in rosetta so updates to rosetta will go to the language packgs
[05:56] <Riddell> but not for breezy I'm afraid
[05:56] <raphink> ok
[05:56] <raphink> btw
[05:56] <raphink> using kooka yesterday
[05:56] <raphink> I found that quite a lot of strings are not translated well to french
[05:56] <raphink> some need to be reviewed
[05:57] <raphink> and I can't edit translation for kooka in rosetta
[05:57] <raphink> where shall I do that?
[05:57] <raphink> the KDE translation system is a big mess
[05:57] <raphink> to me
[05:58] <Riddell> raphink: you will be able to translate it in rosetta when they import dapper strings in a couple months time
[05:59] <raphink> ok I c
[05:59] <Riddell> but for now edit the file in SVN, l10n/fr/messages/kdegraphics/kooka.po or something
[05:59] <Riddell> and sent it to a kde fr dude
[05:59] <raphink> same for the packages I added ?
[05:59] <Riddell> which packages?
[05:59] <raphink> ok
[05:59] <raphink> or to the list?
[05:59] <Riddell> or the list, however they work
[05:59] <raphink> knmap, kyamo, etc.
[05:59] <raphink> ok
[06:00] <Riddell> before long they'll ask you to get an svn account and you can commit yourself
[06:00] <raphink> ok
[06:00] <Riddell> those apps aren't in KDE so you need to get a .pot (empty .po template file) and translate that then send it to the knmap dude or whatever
[06:01] <raphink> would you recommend using kbabel?
[06:01] <raphink> or editing manually?
[06:01] <Riddell> yes, it's great
[06:01] <Riddell> I especially like kbabel's "copy from original string" function, quite a lifesaver for en_GB translation :)
[06:03] <raphink> also
[06:03] <raphink> we found out that it might be more logical, in a western society, to put the preview button to the left and the scan one to the right
[06:03] <raphink> because you preview before you scan
[06:03] <raphink> and we're used to going from left to right in western countries
[06:04] <raphink> ;)
[06:04] <Riddell> seems fair
[06:04] <raphink> this is a detail but imo quite important for basic users
[06:04] <Riddell> make a patch, submit it to whoever the kooka maintainer seems to be and apply if he likes it (or if he doesn't respond)
[06:04] <raphink> shall this be reported as a wish?
[06:04] <raphink> ok
[06:04] <Riddell> or you could report it as a wish :)
[06:05] <raphink> oki
[06:05] <Riddell> note that KDE application development is quite tricky at the moment since it's all KDE 4 porting
[06:05] <raphink> I'll do that
[06:05] <raphink> thank
[06:05] <raphink> yes
[06:07] <raphink> hmm
[06:07] <raphink> can't find a string
[06:08] <raphink> that's weird
[06:08] <Riddell> might be a string from a library, or it might have a %1 in the middle of it
[06:09] <Riddell> do we know a philipvanbogaert?  wants to join kubuntu-team
[06:10] <raphink> I don't know him
[06:10] <raphink> hmm well atually
[06:10] <raphink> his name recalls something
[06:10] <raphink> let me search
[06:11] <raphink> hmm
[06:11] <raphink> his LP page is void https://launchpad.net/people/philipvanbogaert
[06:11] <raphink> and his wiki page is inexistant
[06:12] <raphink> found my string, in libkscan
[06:13] <raphink> i'm a bit concerned because "Scan size" has been translated by "Taille de la numrisation"
[06:13] <raphink> which is theorically correct
[06:13] <raphink> except in kooka it lists the orientations of the page
[06:14] <raphink> Riddell: could you have a look at kooka and tell me what you think please?
[06:18] <Riddell> raphink: where am I looking?
[06:19] <raphink> wait a min
[06:19] <raphink> i'll send you a mockup of my idea
[06:20] <raphink> DCC Riddell
[06:20] <raphink> it seems to me there's a confusion between size and orientation in this part of kooka
[06:20] <raphink> if it's dealing with size, then the format menu (A4, A5, etc.) should be inside
[06:21] <raphink> if it's dealing with orientation (landscape/portrait) then it should be mentionned
[06:21] <raphink> what do you think?
[06:22] <raphink> Riddell: http://raphink.free.fr/debs/kooka_en_2.jpg
[06:23] <Riddell> yep, fully agree
[06:23] <raphink> :)
[06:23] <raphink> this is not a translation issue
[06:24] <raphink> this is a gui one
[06:24] <raphink> ;)
[06:24] <raphink> I'll go take a shower and I'll try to patch that afterwards :)
[06:28] <sebas> Riddell: Email with patch is underway.
[06:30] <Riddell> sebas: ever work out what that One was supposed to be?
[06:34] <sebas> Riddell: Nope, badly tested code probably.
[06:35] <seth_k|lappy> Riddell, did you get my note last night?
[06:37] <Riddell> seth_k|lappy: which was that?
[06:38] <seth_k|lappy> I spent several hours trying to pin down the issue, but never got anywhere substantial. http://seth.pastebin.com/488266
[06:40] <seth_k|lappy> you'll notice that it *apparently* includes the proper directory
[06:41] <seth_k|lappy> i.e., "-I/tmp/buildd/polyester-0.6.5/./client/config"
[06:41] <seth_k|lappy> which is $(srcdir)... yet it's horked. You wouldn't believe the number of hours I spent Googling and trying to figure it out last night :P
[06:44] <Riddell> seth_k|lappy: what's in the Makefile.am?
[06:44] <seth_k|lappy> just $(all_includes)... want me to pastebin the whole thing?
[06:45] <seth_k|lappy> http://seth.pastebin.com/488916
[06:45] <raphink> Riddell: how do I get the kooka source from svn on kde ?
[06:46] <raphink> :s
[06:47] <Riddell> raphink: in branches/KDE/3.5/kdegraphics/
[06:47] <raphink> yes I found that
[06:47] <raphink> but I can't get to understand how to use svn to get the source
[06:47] <seth_k|lappy> use the new svn kioslave that just checked in yesterday! it's rockin'
[06:48] <Riddell> raphink: svn co
[06:48] <Riddell> google for anonymous kde svn
[06:48] <raphink> hmmm
[06:48] <raphink> it asks for a password
[06:48] <Riddell> even anonymous?
[06:48] <raphink> hmm
[06:49] <raphink> dunno how to use anonymous :s
[06:49] <seth_k|lappy> raphink, http://developer.kde.org/source/anonsvn.html
[06:49] <raphink> ty
[06:50] <raphink> :)
[06:51] <Riddell> seth_k|lappy: blurg, not sure just now, put it on revu and poke me into looking at it soon
[06:51] <seth_k|lappy> bah, alrighty. It was driving me batty last night
[06:52] <seth_k|lappy> raphink, install kdesvn-kio-plugins, then open Konq and just put in svn://anonsvn.kde.org/home/kde/branches/KDE/3.5/kdegraphics
[06:53] <seth_k|lappy> you'll get a nice browser window with which to yoink kooka source
[06:53] <raphink> I'll do that next time thanks seth_k|lappy
[07:42] <raphink> Riddell: seems this is a bit too hard for me :( I cant' get to find how to do what I'd like to change in kooka :(
[07:42] <raphink> :'(
[07:43] <Riddell> raphink: it might be coded or it might be in .ui qt designer files
[07:43] <raphink> it's coded
[07:43] <raphink> there's no .ui
[07:43] <raphink> :s
[07:43] <raphink> that's why it's a bit hard for me
[07:43] <Riddell> so re-parent the drop down box into the button group
[07:43] <raphink> it's in the middle of the cpp code it seems
[07:44] <raphink> I should find them first :s
[07:44] <raphink> I don't know what it looks like in the cpp code :s
[07:44] <raphink> not even in what file to find them
[07:44] <raphink> I've found
[07:44] <raphink>    m_dockPreview = parent->createDockWidget( "Preview ",
[07:45] <raphink> 					   loader->loadIcon( "viewmag", KIcon::Small ),
[07:45] <raphink> 					   0L, i18n("Scan Preview"));
[07:45] <raphink> in kookaview.cpp
[07:45] <raphink> which seems to create the Preview part
[07:47] <Riddell> then is should make a widget with m_dockPreview as parent
[07:47] <raphink> I guess so
[07:47] <raphink> never studied cpp
[07:47] <raphink> but it's interesting to learn :)
[07:48] <raphink> so then where shall I find the parts ?
[07:48] <Riddell> in the widget it mlakes that has m_dockPreview as parent
[07:48] <Riddell> grep for Preview or "Scan Size" maybe
[07:48] <raphink> yes
[07:49] <raphink> http://pastebin.com/488991
[07:50] <raphink> grepping for Scan Size gives no answer
[07:50] <raphink> and for Preview gives too many
[07:50] <Riddell> preview_canvas = new Previewer( m_dockPreview );
[07:50] <Riddell> that widget?
[07:50] <raphink> no idea
[07:51] <Riddell> well find out what file that class is in and take a look
[07:51] <raphink>    preview_canvas = new Previewer( m_dockPreview );
[07:51] <raphink>    {
[07:51] <raphink>        preview_canvas->setMinimumSize( 100,100);
[07:51] <raphink>       /* since the scan_params will be created in slSelectDevice, do the
[07:51] <raphink>        * connections later
[07:51] <raphink>        */
[07:51] <raphink>    }
[07:51] <raphink>    m_dockPreview->setWidget( preview_canvas );
[07:52] <raphink> :s
[07:52] <raphink> I'd think this is the preview window
[07:52] <raphink> not the select box
[07:53] <Riddell> possibly, you'll need to look at the widget to find out
[07:53] <raphink> hmm
[07:53] <raphink> I don't know how
[07:57] <Riddell> 18:51 < Riddell> well find out what file that class is in and take a look
[07:57] <Riddell> Previewer
[07:57] <raphink> hmm ok
[07:57] <raphink> won't be easy
[08:15] <raphink> Previewer    *preview_canvas;
[08:15] <raphink> in kookaview.h
[08:16] <raphink> and there's a #include "previewer.h"
[08:16] <raphink> also
[08:27] <Riddell> so it'll be in previewer.cpp
[08:29] <raphink> there's no such files
[08:30] <raphink> as previewer.cpp or previewer.h
[08:30] <raphink> and i can't find a package providing it
[08:33] <seth_k|lappy> Riddell, I'll upload polyester to REVU now
[08:34] <seth_k|lappy> Riddell, please bounce it back to me if you fix it; there are still changes I need to make
[11:19] <Riddell> hi martamius
[11:19] <martamius> hi
[11:19] <Riddell> first issue with systemsettings is making sure all the modules actually fit on the screen
[11:20] <Riddell> other issues are it doesn't load modules with in the correct locale, and double clicking on icons causes large problems
[11:20] <martamius> right... i noticed that problem myself when in 1024x768.
[11:20] <Riddell> I've fixed knetworkconf but I think at least kdeprint needs looked at as well
[11:20] <Riddell> martamius: are you running dapper?
[11:21] <Tm_T> is base-config package important?
[11:21] <martamius> not at the moment, i was. but an update a few weeks ago killed it so i put breezy back in
[11:21] <Riddell> Tm_T:  This package is an empty package that is no longer used. It can be removed
[11:21] <Riddell>  with no ill effects.
[11:21] <Tm_T> ah ok
[11:21] <Riddell> martamius: today's install CD is pretty good if you want to get back on the edge
[11:21] <Tm_T> thanks
[11:22] <martamius> i'll try to do that today
[11:22] <martamius> we're at test cd 2 now, right?
[11:22] <Riddell> flight 2
[11:22] <martamius> right, flight 2 :)
[11:22] <Riddell> but grab the daily CD from http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/daily/
[11:22] <Riddell> today's is fine as I say
[11:22] <martamius> alright.
[11:24] <martamius> riddell: ok, downloading today's build cd.
[11:25] <Riddell> martamius: have you done kde/qt programming at all?
[11:25] <martamius> once I get that installed, I'll start looking at the systemsettings source.
[11:25] <Riddell> apt-get source kde-sytemsettings  is a good start for that :)
[11:25] <martamius> a little bit. i've done more gtk programming, but qt is pretty straight-forward, so it's not too much trouble
[11:26] <Riddell> or get it from KDE SVN as well, make sure you get the kde 3 version not kde 4
[11:26] <martamius> alright
[11:29] <martamius> if today's cd is ok, is it safe to just upgrade to dapper using apt?
[11:33] <Riddell> martamius: yeah, that's fine too
[11:33] <Riddell> let me know if you have any problems


[05:39] <MooDoo> hello all
[05:55] <Myrtti> moin
[06:01]  * nigelb yawns
[06:04]  * diddledan agrees
[07:02] <diplo> Morning all
[07:02] <MooDoo> morning diplo
[07:03] <diplo> How's things MooDoo ?
[07:07] <MooDoo> diplo: yeah ok thanks, madness to be up this early, but I'm cracking on with things.
[07:08] <diplo> Early?!?
[07:10] <MooDoo> diplo: ok not so much now, but was as work for 6:30
[07:13] <Myrtti> oh man.
[07:13] <Myrtti> meh
[07:14] <nigelb> I was up at 0550. Not sure what I did after that. Only started work at 0900.
[07:15] <diplo> Ah right, I was awake at 6 but don't start till 8
[07:40] <DJones> 10 days off and I come back to 100 emails, at least looks like 80% of them are spam
[07:45] <awilkins> Workspam or spamspam?
[07:46] <DJones> monty python spam
[07:46] <diplo> 100 emails in 10 days, that's really not that bad
[07:47] <DJones> mostly viagra, other medication & "build your website & online presence" spam
[07:55] <awilkins> I remember the days of a  < 1 ham to spam ratio
[07:56] <awilkins> I thought this was a conquered problem, but clearly not for private email systems
[07:57] <awilkins> I guess it's something easier to solve at a larger scale. Both the email systems I interact with have a large number of users (NHS mail, around 1 million, and GMail, billions, I expect)
[07:58] <DJones> Yeah, I use 3 email accounts at work, a gmail one which gets 0 spam, an accounts@work address which gets 2-3 spam per week and and enquiries@work address which gets 5-10 spam a day, the last two are on a small work related domain
[07:59] <awilkins> GMail leverages a vast spam identification engine of terrible power, of course (billions of users clicking "this is spam")
[08:00] <dwatkins> I saw this on slashdot yesterday, it might be quite an interesting read: https://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?doid=2590296.2590302
[08:01] <dwatkins> "The Harvester, the Botmaster, and the Spammer: On the Relations Between the Different Actors in the Spam Landscape"
[08:02] <dwatkins> It always baffles me when I get spam without a link in it.
[08:03] <bashrc> morning
[08:04] <diplo>  I'd love a way to use Gmail spam engine and pay a small fee
[08:05] <dwatkins> diplo: you can have gmail forward all mail to another account, and thus use it as a spam filter
[08:05] <diplo> Yeah I mean connect postfix/qmail etc from our company email via their spam servers, they do such a good job at it
[08:05] <diplo> Like BitFolk offer remote spam servers
[08:06] <dwatkins> yeah, I imagine if you use their mail servers for your corporate mail, the spam blocking is quite effective
[08:06] <dwatkins> we use postini, it seems to work reasonably well
[08:06] <DJones> Ooh, found a spam for a new voicemail, click this link to listen "http://en8jmq93pm.ljygoyh.com/*********".... Yeah as if that looks like a safe and well known domain
[08:08] <diplo> dwatkins, is it easy to integrate to mta's ?
[08:08] <dwatkins> no idea, diplo - I didn't do the integration
[08:08] <diplo> postini that is, isn't that owned by google now anyway? I may have remember wrong
[08:08] <diplo> Ah ok
[08:14] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[08:26] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy International Panic Day! :-D
[08:26] <awilkins> What are we panicing about?
[08:30] <awilkins> Ah well, it will be a great meeting icebreaker
[08:36] <dwatkins> spam?
[08:37] <awilkins> It being International Panic Day
[08:37] <awilkins> Who decides these things?
[08:41] <awilkins> Is there a committee that gets together and decides that a given day will be devoted to Panic (and picnics).
[08:41] <awilkins> Picnic Day sounds much nicer
[08:41] <awilkins> I may find a scotch egg and go and eat it by the river
[08:41] <bashrc> is there an ubuntu day?
[08:42] <dwatkins> there was in 2012
[08:42] <awilkins> Only reference I can find is a video of Desmond Tutu supporting a National uBuntu Day in SA
[08:42] <dwatkins> https://www.facebook.com/events/424963100880647/?ref=5
[08:42] <dwatkins> 'Ubuntu: 'I am because we are' in Swahili. A day to celebrate youth leadership with our friends from Maai Mahiu, Kenya.'
[09:00] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[09:05] <popey> yo
[09:06] <bigcalm> ho ho and a bottle of rum
[09:10] <davmor2> bigcalm: oh is it international talk like a pirate day then :P
[09:11] <dwatkins> it's September already?
[09:34]  * Myrtti does a sensible chuckle
[09:34] <Myrtti> http://entertainment.guardianoffers.co.uk/i-dd-rm001699/g-c-h-q-always-listening-to-our-customers/
[09:45] <dwatkins> nice, Myrtti
[09:49] <nigelb> 23
[09:49] <nigelb> (gah)
[09:51] <foobarry> ed balls
[10:21]  * dwatkins is in beepy hell with really cheap hold music which can only play one note at a time
[10:22] <dwatkins> The circuit that makes this music is probably less expensive than my lunch
[10:22] <foobarry> greensleeves
[10:22] <dwatkins> surprisingly not, foobarry - I don't recognise the tune
[10:22] <dwatkins> it has 20 notes, though
[10:28] <selinuxium> morning all  o/
[10:33] <selinuxium> Having an issue with Trusty... ran    sudo apt-get install build-essential linux-header-$(uname -r)     and got    Unable to locate package linux-header-3.13.0-27-generic
[10:37] <selinuxium> Doh...
[10:39] <selinuxium> linux-headers-$(uname -r)   missed the 's'
[10:39] <selinuxium> Quiet in here today?
[10:39] <bigcalm> Shhhh
[10:40] <Myrtti> ssssshhhhh
[10:40] <selinuxium> *creeps quietly into a corner*
[10:48] <popey> heh
[10:54] <MooDoo> selinuxium: tumbleweed.popey.com
[10:55] <selinuxium> :)     (smiling is quiet - no LOL here)
[11:00]  * foobarry pulls a book off the shelf and peruses quietly
[11:06] <mapps> hey LL
[11:06] <mapps> ALL
[11:06] <mapps> back in uk.and my sky routers here:D gotta go collect it in a min..so fibre soon yay
[13:28] <MooDoo> czajkowski: just seen a tweet you're involved with re mongodb meetup :)
[13:51] <czajkowski> I am indeed
[13:51] <mgdm> czajkowski: OH
[13:51] <mgdm> czajkowski: I owe you an email about that, don't I
[13:53] <czajkowski> mgdm: indeed :)
[13:53] <czajkowski> but tis ok I know you're busy
[13:53] <mgdm> czajkowski: writing it now ;-)
[13:54] <mgdm> czajkowski: (PM your email again?)
[13:54] <czajkowski> first dot surname at the place I work dot com :)
[13:54] <mgdm> nae bother
[13:57] <bigcalm> I hope somebody does a talk on mongodb at oggcamp so that I can find out if I should actually use it or not
[13:57] <mgdm> There'll probably be one at PHPNW... :P
[13:57]  * bigcalm tuts
[13:58]  * bigcalm pouts
[13:58]  * bigcalm wants to go to both!
[13:58]  * mgdm got his ticket for PHPNW yesterday \o/
[13:58] <bigcalm> I'll miss seeing you in a kilt and Jen in top hat and tails
[13:58] <mgdm> :D
[14:15] <bashrc> afaik mongodb doesn't run well on ARM
[14:33] <Myrtti> I have now seen it all. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwX0mhPfE-g
[14:33] <Myrtti> Boris and Paxman on a tandem bicycle
[14:35] <bashrc> the establishment at leisure
[14:43] <bigcalm> That's amazing
[14:43] <Armag3dd0n24> I like eggs.
[14:43] <bigcalm> I can imagine them being drinking buddies
[14:49] <dwatkins> Shouldn't Boris be on a Boris Bike?
[14:52] <bigcalm> You mean a Ken Bike?
[14:54] <dwatkins> that too
[14:56] <bigcalm> ;)
[14:56] <bigcalm> Sorry, just being a pita
[15:30] <daftykins> just re-done the thermal interface material on that red Sony
[15:31] <daftykins> hitting 70 deg C max load with an i5 2410M
[15:31] <daftykins> so the only thing that doesn't work... is the right mouse button
[15:31] <daftykins> i'm sure someone with a multimeter and some patience could isolate that fault, but i'm not going to go that far :>
[15:38] <shauno> just put osx on it and they won't need that button ;)
[15:38] <daftykins> i always use right click on macs ;_:
[17:02] <dogmatic69_> How can I make all the home folders move? is it best to just mount something to /home
[17:04] <daftykins> what are you trying to do?
[17:04]  * daftykins nudges dogmatic69_
[17:05] <dogmatic69_> daftykins: I got a new shiny raid with 3TB of space, and a SSD (which currently has /home) complaining that its full
[17:05] <daftykins> ah right
[17:05] <dogmatic69_> so, need to move /home -> /raid/HomeDir
[17:06] <daftykins> that's an idea, but the best way to handle an SSD is a little different
[17:06] <dogmatic69_> my raid is mounted to /raid
[17:06] <dogmatic69_> why would ssd be different?
[17:06] <daftykins> instead of moving the entire /home, be aware that your software configs are in ~/.config and so on as well, so leaving them on the SSD would be best
[17:07] <daftykins> so instead, make /raid/username then move all your folders of data, e.g. music, documents, pictures over
[17:07] <daftykins> then symlink those folders back to /home/username/
[17:07] <dogmatic69_> I see, for speed... well raid 1 should be pretty snappy
[17:07] <daftykins> hehe, nowhere near as good as SSD
[17:07] <dogmatic69_> ye, I have done that a bit, but now my ~/Downloads is 20gb
[17:07] <dogmatic69_> ssd is 60 :/
[17:08] <daftykins> so move that to /raid/username too and then symlink it back so it still looks like it's in /home/username/
[17:08] <dogmatic69_> ok
[17:08] <dogmatic69_> symlinks are pretty good at staying put?
[17:09] <dogmatic69_> dont want to make a bunch and they keep disappearing
[17:12] <daftykins> they're permanent yes
[17:14] <dogmatic69_> daftykins: what about swap?
[17:15] <dogmatic69_> i just upgraded to 16gb ram, currently have 8gb swap on the ssd
[17:15] <daftykins> depends if you ever use sleep or hibernate i guess
[17:15] <dogmatic69_> nope, just on or off
[17:16] <daftykins> probably no reason to change that then
[17:17] <dogmatic69_> ok
[22:27] <dogmatic69_> ok, sound on my new mobo is crappy :/
[22:27] <dogmatic69_> Realtek ALC1150
[22:33] <dogmatic69_> bug 1330546


[08:13] <faizul> hello
[08:13] <faizul> anybody available ?
[08:13] <k1l> just ask and we will see if someone can help
[08:14] <faizul> i want to reapply for my ubuntu members irc cloack
[08:15] <faizul> https://launchpad.net/~faizul
[08:19] <k1l> faizul: so we just need the IRCC to confirm and then staff to set the cloak
[08:24] <faizul> do i need to tell them ?
[08:24] <k1l> they should see this in here, when they are awake
[08:31] <Flannel> I say yes.  I don't know what staff are awake though.  Let me take a look.
[08:32] <niko> o/
[08:32] <Unit193> niko appears to be half awake.
[08:32] <Flannel> hi niko!  Can you please give faizul an ubuntu/member cloak?
[08:32] <niko> faizul: congrats
[08:34] <faizul> i got my first cloak in 2009 i think
[08:34] <faizul> not active on irc few years later and now im back
[08:35] <Flannel> IRC is glad to have you back.
[08:39] <faizul> thanks
[08:39] <faizul> nice to meet you